### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 1 1 U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 2 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 COMMENTS ON PROPOSED CLIMATE, AIR QUALITY, AND 5 PERMITTING RULES FOR THE OIL AND NATURAL GAS 6 INDUSTRY 7 8 WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 9 10 9:10 A.M. - 8:00 P.M. 11 12 DALLAS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 13 1500 MARILLA STREET 14 DALLAS, TEXAS 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. COURT REPORTERS 23 (800) 288-3376 www.depo.com 24REPORTED BY: LINDA J. WEBSTER, CSR, RPR 25 FILE NO.: A909467

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 HEARING BOARD MEMBERS: 3 MR. FRED THOMPSON 4 MR. ROB LAWRENCE 5 MR. BRUCE MOORE 6 MS. LISA THOMPSON 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 3 1 INDEX OF COMMENTERS 2 Matthew Todd Bill Stevens 3 Sharon Wilson David Lyon 4 Gretchen Dahlkemper David Martineau 5 Mari Ruckel 6 Marc McCord Zac Trahan 7 Mark Handley Lawrence Cottle 8 Brent Lammert 9 Luke Metzger Ed Ireland 10 Jeralynn Jackee Cox Kim Feil 11 Cathy Wallace Cyrus Reed 12 Leigh Bailey 13Amanda Crowe Krystal Henagan 14 Brandon Morton Cathy McMullen 15 Eulaine Hall 16Amy Allen Darin Schroeder 17 Kim Limberg Sherrell Blazer 18 Leslie Harris Paul Wehnert 19 Tricia Cortez 20 Tamara Bounds Ed Soph 21 Carol Soph Lance Irwin 22 Harriet Irby 23 David Cozad Deborah Armintor 24Mahdi Ahmadi Helen Bush 25 Kaiba White

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 4 1 INDEX OF COMMENTERS (Continued) 2 Gene Collins 3 Loni Russell Will Edwards 4Neil Carman Priscilla Villa 5 Gunnar Schade Hal Suter 6 Linda Cooke 7 Ranjana Bhandari Jim Schermbeck 8 Molly Rooke John Lazaration 9 Ingrid Kelley Ricky Bradley 10 Brett Cease 11 Terry Burns Jodi Ismert 12Adam Ringle Adam Rinkleff 13 Mary Warren Kelli Barr 14 Elizabeth Riebschlaeger 15 Ingrid Martine Alan Septoff 16 Ron Seifert Cindy Spoon 17 Jennifer Hensley Heather Dowell 18Adam Barnett 19 Susybelle Gosslee Gary Hogan 20 Gary Stuard Lucille Esteban 21 Brian Oliver Bella Oliver 22 Daniel Melendez 23 Harry Davis Steve Everley 24 Dewayne Quertermous Jane Lind 25 Tamika Dickerson

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (Commencing at 9:10 a.m.) 3 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, everyone. 4 We're going to get started. So again, good 5morning. My name is Fred Thompson, and I'm the 6 chair today for the public hearing. Thank you for 7 coming today. Joining me on the panel today are, 8 to my right, Bruce Moore with the EPA's Office of 9 Air Quality Planning and Standards, and to my left, 10 Rob Lawrence, with EPA Region 6. 11 We're here today to hear your comments 12 on EPA's proposed rules relating to the oil and 13 natural gas sector. The specific rules are, No. 1, 14 Oil and Natural Gas Sector Emission Standards for 15New and Modified Sources; No. 2, Source 16 Determination for Certain Emission Units in the Oil 17 and Natural Gas Sector; and No. 3, Review of New 18 Sources and Modifications in Indian Country; 19 Federal Implementation Plan for Managing Air 20 Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged in Oil 21 and Natural Gas Production in Indian Country. 22 EPA's administrator signed the 23proposed rules on August 18, 2015. The proposed 24New Source Performance Standards will establish 25methane and VOC standards for hydraulically

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 6 1 fractured wells and require owners and operators to 2 find and repair leaks. The proposed rule also 3 would extend emission reduction requirements 4 further downstream covering equipment in the 5 natural gas transmission and storage segments of 6 the industry that was not regulated in the Agency's 7 2012 rules. 8 The proposed Source Determination Rule 9 clarifies the EPA's air permitting rules as they 10 apply to the oil and natural gas industry. We are 11 also taking comments on the proposed federal 12 implementation plan to implement the Federal Minor 13New Source Review Program in Indian Country for oil 14 and natural gas production. That plan known as a 15 FIP would be used instead of site-specific minor 16New Source Review preconstruction permits in Indian 17 country. It would incorporate emissions limits and 18 other requirements from six EPA emission standards 19 including the 2015 proposed updates to the New 20 Source Performance Standards on which we're taking 21 comment today. 22 If you would like more details on the 23proposed rules, there are fact sheets available at 24 the registration desk. Before we get started, I'd 25 like to go over a few housekeeping items and ground

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 7 1 rules that will help make today's hearing run 2 smoothly. First, please be sure you have checked 3 in at the registration desk even if you are not 4planning to speak today, and if you signed up to 5 speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 6 you're here, please step outside to the 7 registration desk and let EPA -- EPA staff know 8 that you arrived. 9 I will call speakers up in pairs. 10 When your name is called, please come to the 11 speaker's podium at the front of the room. It is 12 important that you tell us which rule or rules 13you're speaking about. When I call on you to 14 speak, please state your name and spell it for the 15 court reporter. Your comments will be transcribed 16 and included in the record of comments on the 17proposed rule. 18 Each speaker will have five minutes to 19 give comments. When you're finished speaking, 20please remain at the podium until the person next 21 to you has completed his or her testimony. We're 22 here to listen to you today, however, a panel 23member may ask questions to clarify your comments. 24 I will then call up the next pair of speakers and 25 so on.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 8 1 If you have brought a written copy of 2 your testimony, please give that to the staff at 3 the registration desk before you leave today. We 4 will put any written comments submitted today in 5 the official docket for the proposed rule. We also 6 have comment cards available at the registration 7 desk if you would like to submit additional written 8 comments today. If you want to comment in writing 9 later, stop by the materials table near the 10 registration desk and pick up a copy of the 11 instructions for submitting written comments. 12 Comments must be received by November 17, 2015, 13 I'll repeat that. Comments must be received by 14November 17, 2015. 15 Let me assure you that EPA gives just 16 as much consideration to comments we receive in 17writing as we do to comments we receive at public 18 hearings like this one. So if you have more 19 comments that you would like to provide EPA, please 20 submit them by the comment period deadline. Your 21 comments will be reviewed. If you have any 22 questions during the day, please see the staff at 23 the registration desk and someone will gladly 24 assist you. Thank you again for taking the time 25 today to share your comments on the EPA's proposal.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 9 1 With that, let's get started; and at this time, I'd 2 like to ask Matt Todd and Bill Stevens to please 3 come forward for testimony. 4 Good morning, gentlemen. Mr. Todd, 5 please state your name and spell it for the court 6 reporter, please. 7 MR. TODD: Matthew Todd, 8 M-a-t-t-h-e-w, T-o-d-d. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Please begin your 10 testimony. 11 MR. TODD: Good morning. My name is 12 Matthew Todd. I'm a senior policy advisor for the 13American Petroleum Institute. API is a national 14 trade association representing all facets of the 15 oil and natural gas industry, supports 9.8 million 16 U.S. jobs and 8 percent of the U.S. economy. API 17 has more than 625 members that include large 18 integrated companies as well as exploration and 19production, refining, marketing, pipeline, and 20marine businesses and service and supply firms. 21 Collectively, they provide most of the nation's 22 energy, and many will be directly impacted by the 23proposed regulations we're here to discuss today. 24 In five minutes, it's difficult to 25 speak substance -- substantively to the details of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 10 1 each of these proposed actions, however, API 2 intends to submit detailed comments on each. My 3 first point, our industry has voluntarily led the 4 way in its pursuit of improved operations to safely 5maximize the recovery and capture of these valuable 6 oil and gas resources. We're incentivized to do 7 that, and many of these leading technologies have 8 been broadly used by industry and were subsequently 9 incorporated by EPA into its Natural Gas STAR 10 Program. 11 My second point, even as U.S. oil and 12 natural gas production has surged, methane 13 emissions have declined significantly. For 14 example, methane emissions from hydraulically 15 fractured gas wells have fallen 79 percent since 16 2005, and total methane emissions from natural gas 17 systems are down 11 percent over the same period. 18 These reductions have occurred during a time when 19 total U.S. gas production has increased 44 percent. 20 This industry has also played a significant role in 21 the 27-year lows in power sector CO2 emissions we 22 see today. These trends are indicative of what our 23 industry, when given the freedom to innovate, can 24 achieve to improve the environment and our nation's 25 energy security. What our industry has and will

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 11 1 continue to achieve on the current regulatory 2 system without directly regulating methane, dwarfs 3 the emission reductions the EPA has estimated in 4 these proposed rules. 5 My third point is that directly 6 regulating methane as proposed in the NSPS rules is 7 unnecessary. The 2012 final rule indirectly 8 regulates methane by regulating natural gas as a 9 surrogate for VOC. Since methane is the primary 10 constituent of natural gas, there are no additional 11 emission reductions that will occur from replacing 12 the surrogate regulatory context with the direct 13 regulation of methane, therefore, the EPA should 14 continue the practice of indirectly regulating 15methane through the use of natural gas as a 16 surrogate for VOC. 17 My fourth point. We urge EPA not to 18 get in the way of this success story by developing 19 one-size-fits-all regulatory solutions. Our 20 industry is big. It's complex, and operations vary 21 substantially across the nation. As we learned in 22 the development of the 2012 NSPS rule, EPA should 23 exercise caution in the development of these rules 24 to allow operational flexibility as it seeks 25 one-size-fits-all regulatory solutions. Industry

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 12 1must be able to comply with the requirements of new 2 rules. In the 2012 rule, EPA allowed 3 implementation for storage vessel requirements to 4 be phased in to accommodate the vast number of 5 affected facilities. EPA should consider whether 6 or not a similar compliance schedule is warranted 7 in the proposed NSPS rule. We also urge EPA to 8 accommodate operators that are currently 9 implementing leak monitoring and repair 10 requirements, whether due to existing air permits, 11 state regulations, or voluntary commitments, to 12 satisfy the federal rule requirements and minimize 13 additional regulatory burden for these operators. 14 Finally, we urge EPA to coordinate its 15 efforts with other agencies to avoid implementing 16 duplicative requirements that can potentially 17 hinder the continued production of the energy that 18 our nation will continue to demand. The rules 19 we're discussing today are a small slice of the 20pending regulations that our industry is facing. 21 The EPA has also released proposed control 22 technique guidelines for the implementation of the 23pending revised ozone air quality standard and 24pending regulatory requirements from the Department 25 of Interior's BLM on federal lands will also add to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 13 1 the cumulative impact to our industry and future 2 operations. 3 We urge the EPA and the administration 4 to coordinate their efforts and strongly encourage 5 EPA to extend its comment periods by 60 days to 6 allow a minimum of 30 day overlap with the proposed 7 BLM rule. Without this overlap, industry will not 8 have the chance to understand the cumulative 9 impacts and provide meaningful feedback to avoid 10 conflicting requirements across several agencies. 11 To close, the API and its members 12 recognize the importance of developing these 13 valuable resources responsibly; however, the last 14 thing we need is more duplicative and costly 15 regulation that could increase the cost of energy 16 for Americans and undermine our competitiveness 17when the operations that will bear the brunt of 18 these regulatory impacts that represent only 19 1.4 percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. 20API remains committed to work with the EPA and the 21 administration to identify additional cost 22 effective control opportunities, which when 23 implemented, don't hinder our ability to provide 24 the energy our nation will continue to -- to demand 25 for many years to come. Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 14 1 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Todd. 2 Are there any questions? 3 (No response.) 4 MR. THOMPSON: All right. Thank you, 5 sir. Good morning, Mr. Stevens. 6 MR. STEVENS: Good morning. My name 7 is Bill Stevens, S-t-e-v-e-n-s, the last name, and 8 good morning, gentlemen, and I appreciate you being 9 here, and I appreciate you having this hearing in 10 Dallas. My name is Bill Stevens. I reside in 11Austin, Texas. I'm a government affairs consultant 12 and represent the Texas Alliance of Energy 13 Producers. I've testified before you in earlier 14years, and I appreciate doing so again today. 15 The Texas Alliance of Energy Producers 16 is an oil and gas trade association with more than 17 3,200 members who operate and produce oil and 18 natural gas throughout the state of Texas. 19 60 percent of our members have fewer than ten 20 employees. Five percent of our members are large 21public corporations, however. Domestic independent 22producers drill more than 95 percent of the wells 23 drilled in Texas. 24 Today, these comments are also 25presented on behalf of two other trade

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 15 1 associations: The Panhandle Producers & Royalty 2 Owners Association in Amarillo and the Permian 3 Basin Petroleum Association in Midland. Combined, 4 these associations represent an additional 2,000 5members of the Texas oil and gas industry. 6 The Alliance will provide you more 7 detailed technical comments later. In this comment 8 period today, we will provide you with the 9 following assessment, and like the previous 10 speaker, we'd ask that you extend the comment 11period by at least 60 days to a total of 120 days. 12 We would also suggest the EPA consider delaying any 13 implementation date and consider a phased-in 14 approach. 15 Much of my testimony is very similar 16 in nature to what Mr. Todd just presented, so I 17won't bore you with the percentages and things 18which are similar to his. Safe to say that methane 19 emissions have been decreasing from oil and gas 20 drilling and production activities despite record 21production and drilling activity. Today, drilling 22 is down by 60 percent. Projected production has 23plateaued for the immediate future. It is 24 anticipated that methane emissions -- additional 25methane emission reductions will be added to what

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 16 1 has already been accomplished over the last 2 25 years and in particular the last eight years. 3 America's energy producers have 4 demonstrated a commitment to reducing methane 5 emissions and led by EPA in some cases with your 6 rules, it incentivizes us to capture emissions with 7 the help of new and innovative -- with new and 8 innovative technologies. 9 These proposed -- new proposed 10 regulations simply are not necessary, certainly not 11 at this time. The proposed rule is complicated and 12 lengthy. Its 591 pages contain numerous 13 requirements that will be difficult for the 14 industry to implement especially small producers to 15maintain compliance. That does not mean that we do 16 not agree that this is an important issue for all 17 of us. 18 A few -- overview of a few issues and 19 concerns. Statements in the -- in the rules 20preamble and other statements -- prior statements 21by Administrator McCarthy who have acknowledged 22 that state regulatory agencies provide effective 23 tools and specific remedies to the problems to be 24 addressed. We urge the EPA to follow through in 25 its rule by allowing state-level regulatory

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 17 1 agencies to continue to implement the rule and 2 regulate in the field including reporting, 3 inspection, and documentation. 4 Secondly, the cost benefit analysis 5 has several flaws which underestimate the cost of 6 the data collection in reporting. OGI surveys to 7 be performed on multiple occasions throughout 8 the -- throughout the year will necessarily make 9 this effort a full-time year-round endeavor, not a 10 specific-scheduled event. Small producers and even 11 large producers will need to contract with outside 12 third-party vendors to perform the surveys and/or 13 EPA 21 surveys. Availability of FLIR cameras and 14 gas sniffers may well be an immediate problem. 15 Most producers, large and small, will not own the 16 equipment today. The best estimate of a camera is 17 $85,000 to $110,000. However, the most costly item 18may ultimately be the data systems and/or 19management of change system that will be required. 20 With the sheer number of valves, 21 connectors, pressure release devices, pumps, seals, 22 diaphragms, all of which you've listed there, and 23 there can be several dozen in each facility, it is 24highly labor-intensive to implement, report, and 25 replace, document, change, and repair status across

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 18 1 hundreds or thousands of facilities. Sophisticated 2 large producers may have the IT and accounting -- 3 and accounting capabilities, but this capability 4 does not exist in smaller companies. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Final thoughts, 6 Mr. Stevens? 7 MR. STEVENS: Okay. Certainly. 8 One -- one point I'd like to get in is that it's 9 essential that the EPA 21 alternative detection 10procedure be retained for those producers who find 11 it uneconomic for the camera or the sniffer or 12 other things. The sub solution of a spray bottle 13 is a viable alternative. We have used it in the 14past. It's a good alternative. 15 Thank you very much. As I said, I've 16 appreciated testifying before you, and I'm happy to 17 do that today. We will submit detailed technical 18 comments within the next 30 days. 19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Stevens. 20 Thank you for your testimony. 21 Okay. At this time, I'd like to ask 22 Sharon Wilson and David Lyon to please come 23 forward, and, Ms. Wilson, you have a video; is that 24 correct? 25 MS. WILSON: Yes.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 19 1 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you. 2 MS. WILSON: Sharon Wilson, 3 W-i-l-s-o-n. I'm Texas organizer for Earthworks' 4 Oil and Gas Accountability Project. Thank you for 5 hearing our comments. If you can listen and watch 6 the video. What you see now is pollution from a 7 natural gas line compressor in a Denton 8 neighborhood. Either EPA rules must cover 9 compressors like these, or these compressors must 10 be kept out of neighborhoods. There is no third 11 choice. This is a compressor station blow down in 12 a Mansfield neighborhood. This facility is 13permitted for 104 blow downs a year. This is 14 reckless. Either EPA's rules must cover all 15pollution from facilities like this, or facilities 16 like this should stay out of neighborhoods. 17 There's no third choice. 18 Flowback tanks are allowed to vent in 19 neighborhoods. Cover pollution from flowback tanks 20 on EPA rules to prevent pollution of neighborhoods 21 or keep flowback tanks out of neighborhoods. 22 There's no third choice. Drilling rig gas busters 23 separate gases from drilling rigs and then vent 24 those gases to the air. Cover all pollution from 25 drilling operations in EPA rules to prevent

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 20 1 pollution of neighborhoods or keep drilling 2 operations out of neighborhoods. No choice. 3 Over a year ago, I received my optical 4 gas imaging thermographer certification. With that 5 certification, I had used a FLIR camera to record 6 methane pollution in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, 7 Colorado, New Mexico, California, and Texas. 8 Industry is not containing methane pollution 9 anywhere, but no other state has come close to what 10 Texas allows. Methane pollution brings with it 11volatile organic compounds that expose the public 12 to carcinogens like benzene and other hazardous 13 chemicals, but Texas regulators are not responsive 14 to complaints from public about this pollution. 15 I called the San Antonio TCEQ office 16with a complaint from Karnes County where I 17 recorded a massive release. I was told all -- all 18 investigators were in a workshop and unavailable 19 for the day. 24 hours later, the release continued 20 and was even worse, so I called again. This time, 21 I spoke with the region director who refused to 22 investigate because I was not a Karnes County 23 resident. TCEQ's own air monitors recorded a 24hydrocarbon spike on these same two days. We know 25 this because three months later, a Texas A&M

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 21 1 atmospheric chemist found the data. 2 TCEQ's air monitor, which TCEQ staff 3 ignored, is 20 miles downwind from the pollution 4 source, meaning people for 20 miles were impacted; 5 yet, TCEQ refused to investigate. At least nine 6 workers have died recently from exposure to oil and 7 gas air pollution. These videos prove that oil and 8 gas development pollute neighboring communities, 9 our backyards, our playgrounds, our schools. 10 Standing on the parking lot of 11Northridge High School in Greeley, Colorado, I 12 recorded a massive release when a worker opened a 13 tank hatch for liquids unloading. The methane and 14VOCs blew out into the neighborhood across the 15 street. Industry and regulators said these 16 emissions are allowed during liquids unloading. 17 How often and in how many neighborhoods does this 18 happen? 19 Please include emissions from liquids 20 unloading in these rules. Voluntarily compliance 21 does not work. When the Flower Mound mayor asked 22 Williams Petroleum why they weren't using the vapor 23 recovery units they use in Wyoming, the Williams 24 representative replied, we don't use them unless 25 they are mandated, and Texas does not mandate them.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 22 1 Industry showered our legislators with 2 over $21 million to pass HB 40 that stripped from 3 cities a 100-year tradition of concurrent state and 4 city regulations of oil and gas development. Now 5 cities cannot require protective setbacks without 6 the threat of lawsuits. Families are too close to 7 these facilities with no way to get protection and 8 no help from state regulators. 9 You are our last hope. We are 10 counting on you to make these methane rules strong 11 to keep pollution out of our neighborhoods. We 12 need these rules now. We need them to cover 13 existing sources. We have no other choice. If 14 industry can't afford -- afford a FLIR camera, I'm 15 available. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Wilson. 17 Thank you for your testimony. Sit tight just one 18 second. Are there any follow-up questions from the 19panel? 20 (No response.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: All right. Thank you 22 again. 23 MR. LYON: David Lyon, L-y-o-n. I'm 24 speaking on the EPA standards for new and modified 25 sources. My name is David Lyon. I'm a scientist

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 23 1 for the Environmental Defense Fund where our work 2 focuses on the quantification and mitigation of 3 methane emissions in the oil and natural gas 4 sector. On behalf of EDF and our more than one 5million members nationwide and 62,000 here in 6 Texas, thank you for the opportunity to testify 7 today concerning the Environmental Protection 8 Agency's proposed standards to address methane 9 emissions from the oil and natural gas sector. 10 We strongly support the EPA's proposed 11 standards and identify several areas where the 12 standards must be further strengthened to ensure 13 they are rigorous. 14 Methane is a potent climate pollutant. 15 In fact, over the first 20 years after it's 16 emitted, methane has over 80 times the climate 17 impact of carbon dioxide. The oil and natural gas 18 sector is the largest industrial source of methane 19 in the United States. EPA's most recent inventory 20 estimates methane emissions from these sources 21 exceeded 7 million metric tons per year, equivalent 22 to the 20-year climate warming effect of 160 23 coal-fired power plants. 24 The recent scientific studies suggest 25 that methane emissions may be substantially higher.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 24 1 In 2013, I was part of the study team that measured 2 methane emissions in the Barnett Shale using 3 simultaneous top-down and bottom-up approaches. 4 That research, which was published in the 5 peer-reviewed journal, Environmental Science & 6 Technology, concludes that emissions from the oil 7 and gas sector were 50 percent higher than 8 estimates based on the EPA greenhouse gas inventory 9 due to our more comprehensive data on the number of 10 facilities and the inclusion of high emission 11 sites. 12 Fortunately, there are readily 13 available, low-cost technologies that can 14 substantially reduce these emissions. A study by 15 IPS International concluded that the industry could 16 cut methane by 40 percent for the cost of only a 17penny per 1,000 cubic of natural gas produced. 18 Many of these measures capture gas that would 19 otherwise be wasted, therefore, implementation 20 reduces pollution, increases production, and in 21 some cases, it even saves money. And for no extra 22 cost, these technologies can also capture other 23pollutants like ozone-forming VOCs and hazardous 24 air pollutants such as benzene. 25 States like Colorado, Wyoming, and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 25 1 Ohio have already developed many of these solutions 2 in a commonsense way that has helped to protect the 3 environment in a manner conducive with economic 4 development. For example, strong standards in 5 Wyoming contributed to a reduction in ozone levels 6 in counties previously exceeding health standards. 7 As a leading producer of the country's 8 oil and natural gas, Texas is also one of the major 9 contributing sources of methane, accounting for 10 almost 30 percent of the upstream and midstream oil 11 and gas sector emissions reported to EPA's 12 greenhouse gas reporting program. Applying these 13 commonsense measures in Texas will not only reduce 14methane emissions, but also capture valuable 15 natural gas. These standards can also address 16 harmful ozone levels in places like Dallas, Fort 17 Worth, and the San Antonio metropolitan areas where 18 oil and gas emissions contribute to ozone 19 formation. 20 And Texas companies are producing many 21 of the solutions that can help reduce pollution. A 22 recent study of the emerging U.S. methane 23mitigation industry found that Texas is home to 24 almost half the country's methane mitigation 25 technology and service companies. Of the over 75

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 26 1 companies in the U.S. working this industry, 28 are 2 headquartered in Texas providing highly skilled, 3 well-paying jobs to Texans all the way from Midland 4 to Beaumont. 5 EPA's proposed standards for new and 6 modified sources and CTG's for sources in ozone 7 nonattainment areas are an important step forward, 8 though we urge the Agency to strengthen them in 9 certain ways to ensure they help deliver cleaner 10 air to Texas and the nation. I will highlight 11 three specific issues. One, we support EPA's 12proposal to cover new and modified sources and to 13 apply requirements to equipment across segments 14 including production, gathering and boosting, 15processing, and transmission and storage. The 16Agency has developed a rigorous scientific and 17 technical basis for addressing these sources 18 through its peer reviewed white paper process. 19 Two, we urge the EPA to strengthen the 20 leak detection and repair provision. The proposed 21 standards call for semiannual LDAR monitoring with 22 opportunities for facilities to reduce the 23 frequency of monitoring even further. But a common 24 finding of EPA methane studies is that a relatively 25 small number of high emitting components and sites

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 27 1 contribute a large fraction to the total emissions. 2 Frequent LDAR to find and fix these leaks is 3 critical to mitigating methane emissions as leaks 4 can emerge anywhere at any time and can be 5 difficult to predict. 6 States like Colorado and Wyoming have 7 recognized that more frequent monitoring is 8 necessary and cost-effective, and accordingly, we 9 urge the EPA to finalize a program that requires 10 quarterly monitoring -- monitoring and is not 11 subject to frequency adjusting based on a 12 facility's percentage of leaking components. 13 And finally, we respectfully urge the 14 EPA to build from this important step and take 15 action to address emissions from existing sources. 16 ICF found that existing sources account for almost 17 90 percent of emissions from the oil and gas 18 sector. Moreover, the same technologies and 19practices that can minimize emissions from new 20 sources are likewise capable of reducing emissions 21 from existing sources. Building from these steps, 22 the EPA proposal will help reduce emissions across 23 the country where there's oil and natural gas 24development. I thank you. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Lyon.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 28 1 Are there any questions? 2 (No response.) 3 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 4your testimony. 5 At this time, I'd like to ask 6 Gretchen -- and forgive me here on the last name -- 7 Dahlkemper, it appears. 8 MS. DAHLKEMPER: Close enough. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Please -- come 10 down, please. And David Martineau. Good morning. 11 MS. DAHLKEMPER: Good morning. That 12was pretty good. 13 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Show us how it's 14done now. Will you please state your name and 15 spell it for the court reporter. 16 MS. DAHLKEMPER: Gretchen Dahlkemper, 17 G-r-e-t-c-h-e-n, D-a-h-l-k-e-m-p-e-r. 18 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 19 MS. DAHLKEMPER: Going a little off 20 the record because I just saw the words that Pope 21 Francis spoke at the White House just about an hour 22 ago, and I want to start this out with one of my 23 favorite hymns. We are called to act with justice, 24 and I am here today because I am called to act on 25 climate. This is a simple -- this is a simple

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 29 1 thing that we're talking about today. Do we have 2 the right to pollute, or do America's children have 3 the right to breathe? 4 My name is Gretchen Dahlkemper, and 5 I'm the national field director of Moms Clean Air 6 Force. Thank you for having me this morning. Moms 7 Clean Air Force is a group of over 570,000 parents 8 across the country who banded together four years 9 ago to protect our children from toxic air 10pollution. Today, I'm here to applaud you at EPA 11 for taking a step, albeit a baby step, to protect 12American families from the health and climate 13 impact of methane pollution from the oil and gas 14 industry, and I call on EPA to quickly address the 15methane leaks from existing sources. 16 So why do parents like myself care 17 about air pollution from the oil and gas industry? 18 The answer is simple. Industrial pollution from 19 the oil and gas industry harms our children's 20 health, it fuels global warming, and it wastes 21billions of dollars in natural gas each and every 22year. 23 Standards that reduce methane 24 emissions from oil and gas development will 25 simultaneously reduce emissions and formation of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 30 1 health-damaging air pollutants, including volatile 2 organic compounds, hazardous air pollutants, 3 particulate matter, and ozone. Benzene, 4 formaldehyde, and other toxic pollution does not 5 belong in the air our children breathe. Reducing 6 methane would reduce the exposure of nearby 7 communities to hazard pollution and the subsequent 8 risk of health effects including respiratory 9 morbid -- morbidity -- morbidity and premature 10 death. 11 Oil and gas wells, pipelines, 12 compressor stations, and other infrastructure are 13major sources of air pollution that can harm public 14health. Voluntary measures do not work. 15 Communities across America are suffering under the 16 burden of increased air pollution as a consequence 17 of this industry. 18 Most alarming to parents like myself 19 are recent studies that indicate that pregnant 20 women and their unborn children living near natural 21 gas infrastructure run a higher risk of heart 22 defects, neural tube defects, premature birth, low 23 birth weight, stillbirth, and even perinatal death. 24 Children five and under living near natural gas 25 infrastructure have a higher risk of childhood

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 31 1 cancers such as leukemia. 2 Natural gas is mostly methane which 3 can leak all along the oil and gas supply chain. 4 Methane is a powerful greenhouse -- greenhouse gas 5 and a big contributor to the danger of climate 6 change. Pound for pound, methane pollution is 25 7 times more potent than CO2 over a hundred year 8 period. The oil and gas -- oil and gas sector is 9 the leading industrial source of methane pollution. 10 There are simple, effective, and efficient ways to 11 stop these methane leaks. Fixing methane leaks 12will cut other air pollutants as well because 13methane is not the only pollution that leaks from 14 infrastructure in the oil and gas industry. 15 Fixing the methane pollution will cut 16 smog-forming pollution that triggers asthma 17 attacks. It will cut toxic benzene which is a 18 known carcinogen. Children and the elderly are 19 among the most vulnerable to the health hazards of 20 the oil and gas industry. Our children will suffer 21 the most from runaway climate change. This is a 22 national problem. It needs a national solution. 23 Today I urge the Environmental 24 Protection Agency to enact the strongest possible 25 rules to reduce methane emission from the industry.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 32 1 This rule is important as it lays the foundation 2 for cutting methane pollution from existing 3 sources, something that American families like my 4 own desperately need to protect us from industry 5 that operates literally in our backyards and next 6 to our schools. 7 They act like it's the wild west, that 8 there are no consequences, but our families are 9 feeling the consequences each and every day. 10 Parents need to stand strong against polluters to 11protect their children's rights to clean air and a 12 stable climate. Parents ask that the Environmental 13 Protection Agency cut through the noise created by 14political infighting, monetary influence of the 15 fossil fuel industry, and the fear mongering from 16 both sides of this argument. Ignore the noise and 17 do what is right for American families. Today I 18 ask that you cut methane emissions from the oil and 19 gas industry, both from new and existing sources. 20America's children are counting on you. Thank you. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Are there any follow-up questions, 23panel? 24 (No response.) 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 33 1 Mr. Martineau, please. Good morning, sir. 2 MR. MARTINEAU: Excuse me. Good 3 morning. My name is David Martineau, 4 M-a-r-t-i-n-e-a-u. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 6 MR. MARTINEAU: And I'm from Dallas, 7 Texas. I'm a geologist, and I have worked in the 8 oil and gas exploration business for 55 years. I'm 9 currently employed as an exploration manager for 10 Pitts Oil Company and the past chairman of the 11 Texas Independent Producers & Royalty Owners 12Association, better known as TIPRO. TIPRO is a 13 statewide organization with approximately 3,000 14members. 15 Having seen many of the ups and downs 16 over the years, I'm delighted to see that oil 17 imports dropped from 70 percent to 30 percent 18 because of the recent shale revolution. Now we 19 live in a safer and more secure country especially 20 in light of what's happening in the world today, 21 and we can buy gasoline for almost $2 a gallon, 22 less than we could when we were importing 23 70 percent of our crude. 24 Fossil fuels have made this the great 25 industrialized nation we live in. I'm sure today

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 34 1 you will hear from the climate change alarmists, 2 the anti-oil, oil and gas alarmists that want to 3 blame every illness in their family on pollution or 4 global warming. Asthma, cancer, tuberculosis have 5 been around forever, but when someone gets sick 6 today, they want to blame the oil industry. 7 Probably those people must have ridden 8 a bike here or either walked here because they 9 don't like gas, and they wouldn't be in a car. I 10 guess they slept in a tent last night because they 11 don't want air conditioning or heating in their 12 house, and, of course, they must have cooked their 13 food this morning on wood if they don't like 14natural gas. They probably don't use any plastic 15products either like cell phones, computers, 16 bottled water, or anything else. 17 There are over one million existing 18 oil wells in the U.S. 90 percent of these wells 19 are being drilled by independent oil and gas 20 operators. Administration that -- the Obama 21Administration is proposing a costly and 22 complicated regulatory program for few 23 environmental benefits. The EPA's latest proposed 24 rules would only change global temperature .015 25 centigrades based on EPA's climate model. If

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 35 1 that's true, there's an inconvenient truth here 2 that needs exposure. The EPA's new plan to reduce 3 methane emissions does not make sense. 4 According to the EPA's own greenhouse 5 gas inventory, methane emissions from natural gas 6 production have fallen 35 percent since 2007, even 7 as natural gas production has increased 22 percent. 8 The EPA data also shows methane emissions from 9 hydraulically fractured gas wells have fallen 10 73 percent from 2011 to 2013, meanwhile, carbon 11 dioxide emissions are at their lowest levels in 12 20 years because of the shift in power from coal to 13 natural gas. 14 Do you want to know where the major 15 carbon and nitrogen dioxides come from? Volcanoes 16 and brush fires. There are around 200 active 17volcanoes around the world that spew volcanic ash 18 every day. 19 The oil and gas exploration and 20production sector accounts for only 1.07 percent of 21 the total U.S. gas -- greenhouse gas emissions 22 according to y'all's reports. The administration 23 worked with the agriculture industry which produces 24 three times the amount of methane emissions as the 25 oil and gas sector, and the EPA determined that a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 36 1 voluntary program was sufficient to achieve 2 emission reductions. 3 Since the oil and gas industry is 4 already controlled by state agencies like the TCEQ 5 and the Railroad Commission of Texas, why didn't 6 the EPA want to work with the oil industry for less 7 burdensome and more cost effective initial 8 reduction programs like they did with the 9 agriculture industry? 10 The oil and gas markets are 11 struggling. Prices have dropped in half, and the 12 rigs are in half right now. OPEC and Saudi Arabia 13 by not reducing their productions have achieved 14 their goal of shutting the U.S. drilling and 15production down which will have a major downward 16 economic effect on the U.S. 17 These proposed rules and potential 18 carbon tax will do nothing but be an economic 19 detriment for our economy. As stated in a recent 20 report from the Center for Regulatory Solutions, 21 and I quote, the EPA's plan to move the ozone 22 goalpost threatens Pennsylvania's economy, 23 especially the transportation, construction, and 24 energy industries. Pennsylvania is the center of 25 the great Marcellus natural gas production. The

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 37 1 statement by the Regulatory Solutions is true for 2 every state in the U.S. 3 Speaking of global warming, since the 4planet has cooled .07 degrees in the past century, 5 they now call it climate change. A few years ago 6 even the climatologists with their major computer 7 projections could not come up with an agreement if 8 there is such a thing as global warming. 9 We all know the biggest cause of 10 so-called global warming was the hot air that Al 11 Gore put out to promote his movies and books and 12 help pay for his divorces. We do not need change 13 to the existing EPA rules. Thank you for my time. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 15 Thank you for your testimony. Are there any 16 follow-up questions from the panel? 17 (No response.) 18 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for 19your time, sir. Okay. At this time, I'd like to 20 invite Mari Ruckel and Marc McCord to please come 21 forward for testimony. Good morning. 22 MS. RUCKEL: Good morning. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Please state your name 24 and spell it for the court reporter, please. 25 MS. RUCKEL: My name is Mari Ruckel.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 38 1 The first name is M-a-r-i. The last name is 2 R-u-c-k-e-l. 3 Good morning. Again, my name is Mari 4 Ruckel. I'm vice president of Government and 5 Regulatory Affairs for the Texas Oil and Gas 6 Association. TXOGA is the largest and oldest 7 petroleum organization in Texas representing more 8 than 5,000 members. The membership of TXOGA 9 produces in excess of 95 percent of Texas' crude 10 oil and natural gas, operates nearly 100 percent of 11 the state's refining capacity, and is responsible 12 for the vast majority of the state's pipelines. 13 TXOGA appreciates this opportunity to 14provide our initial views on the recently proposed 15 rule-making packages that are the subject of 16 today's hearing. Given the more than 1,000 pages 17 of combined text in the proposed rules and the 18proposed CTG, TXOGA is in the early stages of fully 19 understanding the rules, their interrelationship 20 and their potential impact on our industry. 21 However, what is clear from our 22 initial review is that the cost of the rules as 23proposed far outweighs the environmental gains. 24 TXOGA plans to respond in more detailed responses 25 to the numerous issues on which EPA has solicited

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 39 1 comment and to the proposed regulatory -- 2 regulatory language in its formal written comments 3 and hopes to offer constructive suggestions for 4 improvement. 5 With extensive expertise regarding the 6 practical effects of regulations on both small and 7 large oil and gas producers, TXOGA strives to be a 8 constructive stakeholder in the rulemaking process. 9 For example, TXOGA worked extensively with EPA on 10 the promulgation of the original NSPS Quad O rules 11 in 2012, throughout the subsequent reconsideration 12processes in the three years following 13promulgation. 14 Those efforts resulted in a -- in key 15 improvements from the proposed version of Quad O 16 and later from the final and revised versions that 17 EPA issued. Today, I would like to highlight a few 18 key issues raised by the proposed regulations. 19 First, oil and gas producers are 20 highly incentivized to recover methane as EPA 21 itself indicates in the Quad O subpart A proposal. 22 Thus, to a large extent, regulatory requirements to 23 recover or prevent the loss of methane will not 24 achieve additional meaningful emission reductions, 25 and EPA should retain -- retain the concept of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 40 1 regulating natural gas as a VOC surrogate rather 2 than directly regulating methane as no additional 3 benefits will occur from regulating methane 4 directly. 5 EPA acknowledges this for Quad O in 6 the regulatory impact analysis, and the same will 7 be true for Quad O, subpart A. These regulations 8 will impose substantial costs simply by virtue of 9 the extensive systems that will be required to 10 document and certify compliance. This concern is 11pronounced for smaller operators for whom the 12 real-world economic resource burden of 13 recordkeeping and compliance have the potential 14 to -- have the potential to disproportionally 15 outweigh predicted benefits. TXOGA believes that 16 the additional costs will be substantial, 17particularly for smaller operators and remote 18 operations. 19 We urge EPA to consider whether 20 formalizing these requirements and regulations is 21 truly necessary given the costs that compliance 22 demonstration will impose on our members, and to 23 the extent EPA finalizes these requirements, we 24 urge EPA to reduce the monitoring of the compliance 25burdens that they will impose.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 41 1 Second, EPA must consider the 2 potential impacts of the proposed CTG in light of 3 the proposed lower ozone standard which is 4 scheduled to be issued in just over a week from 5 today. To the extent that areas of the country 6 that are currently in attainment with the ozone 7 standard will be designated nonattainment at a 8 moderate or more serious classification if the 9 standard is lowered, the CTG costs will be far more 10 widespread and significant. This is a particularly 11 acute concern given that minor New Source Review 12 requirements would come into play for these sources 13 in light of the CTG regs requirements, meaning that 14modifications of these sources could introduce 15 significant delay in obtaining permits. 16 As TXOGA has explained and commented 17 on the original Quad O regulations, the industry 18 needs to be able to timely develop resources given 19 the contractual leasehold requirements for 20 continued development and restricting license. 21 Third, with respect to the source 22 determination -- determination proposal also known 23 as the aggregation rule, TXOGA appreciates the 24 EPA's desire for clarity on source determinations 25but a rule isn't necessary as oil and gas states,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 42 1 including Texas, manage this issue quite well. We 2 do not believe that sources under common control 3 located within a quarter of a mile should 4 automatically be considered or even be presumed to 5 be adjacent. While we would support a presumption 6 that sources separated by more than a quarter mile 7 are separate, the converse is not true. 8 I think I'm running low on time, so I 9 might skip a couple. We also urge EPA to consider 10 the potential permitting indications of these new 11 tests given the permitting delay concerns I've 12 discussed with respect to CTG. Two, the extent 13 this rule would artificially treat multiple sources 14 as a single source, the delays associated with 15 Title I and Title V permitting and modifications 16 could not only delay the necessary changes but 17 could result in failure to meet operation 18 requirements and leasehold contracts leading to 19 loss of interest in a well. 20 In closing, TXOGA is focusing on these 21 rules identifying additional improvements as we 22 analyze and develop detailed comments on the 23proposed rule. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Ms. Ruckel, your time 25has expired. Are there any questions?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 43 1 (No response.) 2 MS. RUCKEL: Thank you. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much for 4your testimony. 5 MS. RUCKEL: We look forward to 6 commenting further. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Mr. McCord, 8 good morning. 9 MR. MCCORD: Good morning. My name is 10 Marc McCord, M-a-r-c, M-c-C-o-r-d. I'm the 11 director of Frac Dallas. I'm also the director of 12 Citizens for Local Control. I had prepared 13 statements to make, but from what I've heard today, 14 I'm going to have to modify what I intended to say. 15 I don't even know why we're going to continue this 16 hearing. We've already heard from the industry 17 that everything they're doing is good and there's 18 no need for any further regulations. 19 The simple truth of the matter is, if 20 there was any truth to that, we wouldn't be here 21 today. We're here because their emissions from oil 22 and gas operations are outrageously out of control, 23 and they make no attempt whatsoever, unless it's 24mandated by law, to do anything about it. 25 Methane is a highly potent greenhouse

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 44 1 gas. Over a 20-year time span, it has a 70 to 105 2 times more powerful component, and over a 100-year 3 time scale, 20 to 35 times more powerful component 4 at trapping heat and carbon dioxide resulting in 5 catastrophic climate change. 6 The oil and gas industry is the 7 largest industrial source of methane pollution. In 8 2013, the sector emitted 7.3 million metric tons of 9 methane. From the standpoint of climate 10 disruption, that's equivalent to CO2 emissions from 11 over 160 coal-burning power plants. Now, that's a 12pretty serious thing to do considering what effects 13 it has on the health of citizens. And if you'll 14notice, the oil and gas industry people don't live 15 near where they operate. We do. They come into 16 our neighborhoods. We never said anything when 17 they were out in the middle of nowhere drilling and 18 doing everything they did and producing the 19pollution they did. But now they have encroached 20 on our residential neighborhoods and our densely 21populated urban areas, and they tell you that these 22 regulations are burdensome, that they're costly, 23 and that they're unnecessary. Taking that same 24 logic, I suppose we don't need any kind of 25 inspections or regulations on the building of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 45 1 aircraft or automobiles or food inspection or 2 testing our water to make sure it's safe. 3 The simple fact of the matter is, 4 every industry has regulatory stipulations on it 5 that it must abide by in order to comply with what 6 is healthy and safe for the environment in which it 7 operates. To do anything else is just sheer 8 hypocrisy and completely off the scale in what we 9 would expect in a civilized society. If the 10 industry cannot afford to operate safely in a way 11 that does not harm other people, then it should not 12 be allowed to operate at all. If small operators 13 have to go out of business, so be it. That's 14 competitiveness. 15 They'll tell you how much they 16 appreciate the free enterprise system, how they 17 believe that regulation and government should not 18 dictate anything, that competition should dictate 19 everything, but all competition is based on 20 offering the very best product and services for the 21 amount of money being paid. 22 The oil and gas industry has been 23 extremely successful. The big companies are raking 24 in tens of billions of dollars a year in profit, 25 and yet, they're getting corporate welfare from our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 46 1 government. Why? EPA is our only source that we 2 can turn to for protection from the industry. We 3 have the Texas Railroad Commission. The 4 commissioners are all former oil and gas industry 5 people. Because Texas has no law prohibiting 6 conflicting -- conflicts of interest and vested 7 interest in being involved in rulemaking, the 8 Railroad Commission, the commissioners themselves, 9 own a vested interest in oil and gas operations to 10 this day. 11 And over 70 percent of the campaign 12 contributions to the Railroad Commission of Texas 13 come directly from the oil and gas industry, so we 14have a regulatory agency regulating the industry 15 from which is a part itself, and it's kind of like 16 the fox guarding the henhouse. I don't think we're 17 going to be able to count on the Railroad 18 Commission of Texas doing anything to look out for 19 citizens. Their own history and track record shows 20 that to be the case. 21 The Texas Commission on Environmental 22 Quality is exactly the same way. I have personally 23 filed complaints about problems from oil and gas 24wells only to have TCEQ respond three days later 25 looking in an area on the opposite side from where

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 47 1 the pollution came when the wind was blowing 2 46 miles per hour, gusting at 53, and I gave them 3 three GPS way points to target the area from which 4 they needed to be looking. I'd like to believe 5 that the oil and gas industry would do what's 6 right. I would like to believe that they're 7 honorable people. They just have not shown any 8 sign of it. 9 If they were, they would voluntarily 10 use vapor recovery systems because it recovers the 11 escaping methane that they're spending millions of 12 dollars to produce. If you're going to let it get 13 away, why drill the hole in the ground in the first 14place? Why not just leave it down there where the 15 earth protects it from us and we're safe? 16 For now, we need EPA regulations, and 17we need you to modify and amend these to also 18 include existing infrastructure because that's 19 going to produce 90 percent of the pollution going 20 forward. Thank you very much for your time. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. McCord. 22 Before you take off, sir, are there any questions 23 from the panel? 24 (No response.) 25 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 48 1 your testimony. Okay. Before I call the next 2 speaker, just a reminder that if you are a 3 registered speaker, please be sure to check in at 4 the registration desk so that the folks out front 5 will know that you're here. All right? Thank you. 6 At this time, I'd like to invite Zac 7 Trahan and Mark Handley to come forward for 8 testimony. Zac Trahan. Good morning. 9 MR. TRAHAN: Thanks very much. My 10 name is Zac Trahan. You've got the records. I 11 live here in Dallas, Texas, and I work with the 12 Texas Campaign for the Environment. 13 MR. THOMPSON: And please spell your 14 last name for the court reporter. 15 MR. TRAHAN: T-r-a-h-a-n. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 17 MR. TRAHAN: To pick up where Marc 18 left off, existing sources are a really important 19 thing to cover in these rules. Well, first of all, 20 I should say thanks for proposing these rules. We 21 support them, but we want them improved before we 22 finalize. If you've driven around the Metroplex or 23 if you get an aerial shot of it, you know that D/FW 24 is wrapped already. They're estimating 17,000 gas 25wells on-site throughout the Metroplex in people's

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 49 1 neighborhoods less than a football field away from 2 bedrooms where our children sleep. So for rules to 3 not cover these existing sources, which would be 4 the majority of the methane pollution and other 5 toxic air pollution, volatile organic compounds, 6 formaldehyde, benzene, it seems ludicrous on its 7 face. We would really strongly urge you to cover 8 existing sources either with this rule or another 9 rule very similar to it. 10 The previous regime of the federal 11 administration's EPA allowed this to happen and 12 have allowed our neighborhoods to be affected this 13 way. And even though this current EPA didn't cause 14 that problem, you now have the responsibility to 15 clean it up; and if you don't, no one else will. 16 These rules are critically important. 17 Also, of course, you can't meet your 18 climate change goals, the stated goals that we have 19 nationally from CO2, from methane, we can't meet 20 our own goals for reducing the source of climate 21 change gases if we don't cover existing sources. 22 Another thing that was brought up 23 earlier by Sharon Wilson is the compressors and 24 compressor stations. Once the oil rig, the gas 25 drilling rig, has come and gone, these compressors

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 50 1 are a major permitted source of air pollution and 2 methane pollution; and so for the rules not to 3 cover them again for people that live with this on 4 a daily basis, it seems ridiculous. Why even 5 bother if you're not going to cover one of the 6 largest permitted sources of air pollution from 7 this industry? 8 And then, of course, for people who 9 live in more rural areas, not necessarily here in 10 D/FW is a big problem, but flaring is a huge 11problem in other parts of Texas, the Eagle Ford 12 Shale, especially south of San Antonio, and West 13 Texas, too, Cline Shale. The idea that I 14 understand in these rules is that flaring is only 15 restricted or regulated if you're in a 16 nonattainment area, such as D/FW. And flaring will 17 cause more nonattainment areas if it's not 18 restricted and regulated now. So we're not going 19 to solve the problem until we've already allowed it 20 to happen? That also is very counterintuitive, 21very illogical. 22 If we're going to have rules to cover 23 air pollution and methane and other toxic emissions 24 from oil and gas, they should cover all of it in 25 all areas of the state not just areas that are

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 51 1 already so bad they are violating the Clean Air 2 Act. Why would we allow more and more areas like 3 that to development and go into nonattainment in 4 the first place and then say, okay, now we'll stop 5 the problem of flaring. 6 As several speakers have pointed out 7 and I'm sure you'll hear all day long, our state 8 agencies are not going to deal with this. Our 9 state government is completely aligned with the oil 10 and gas industry. The Texas OGA speaker before me, 11 their association essentially controls the state 12 legislature at this point, the state Railroad 13 Commission, the state environmental agency when it 14 comes to rules like this, when it comes to 15pollution problems from industry, and so the only 16way for most residents in Texas to have any kind of 17 relief from these problems is through federal 18 rules. 19 Now, some local governments have 20 wanted to help and have tried to help. That's 21 true. But as we saw earlier this year, our state 22 legislature is trying as hard as they can to make 23 that impossible. So if you're serious about 24meeting climate change mitigation goals, reducing 25 emissions by the percentages that we need to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 52 1 globally, and if you're serious about protecting 2 residents in the D/FW Metroplex and throughout the 3 country, you've got to adopt these rules in 4 stronger form. You've got to approve them and 5 adopt them, and you can't delay them. 6 You can't extend the comment period to 7 120 days and have phased-in implementation and 8 enforcement. That's absurd. The State of Texas 9 will drag it out for as long as you possibly allow 10 them to. Any deadlines that are set, the state 11 agencies or our attorney general, for instance, 12will make sure that deadline -- we go up to 13midnight of the day of that deadline, and they'll 14drag it out even further in court if they can. So 15 keep the deadlines as short as you can, knowing 16 that that's the only chance for most residents in 17 the state to see relief someday. Thanks very much 18 for being here, and thanks for working on this. 19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Trahan. 20Any questions for Mr. Trahan? Bruce? 21 (No response.) 22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 23 MR. HANDLEY: Yeah. Mark Handley. 24 That's H-a-n-d-l-e-y. I work for Lasen, and we own 25 and operate a methane detection system, the ALPIS

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 53 1 system, which is -- which is what we own and 2 operate, and it was developed with funds and under 3 the direction of the Department of Transportation. 4 Since the ALPIS system was developed, 5 it has inspected over 200,000 miles of pipeline and 6 identified over 16,000 methane indications. My 7 comments for the time I have here are about the oil 8 and natural gas sector emission standards for new 9 and modified sources. It seems to be the popular 10 thing to talk about at this meeting. My comments 11 focus on the fact that optical or OGI, optical gas 12 imaging, is, really, the only method identified in 13 the rule for reducing methane emissions, and I have 14 a bunch of quotes from the proposed rule, page 17. 15 EPA is "proposing that new and modified well sites 16 and compressor stations (which include the 17 transmission and storage segment and the gathering 18 and boosting segment) conduct fugitive emissions 19 surveys semiannually with OGI." 20 Now, OGI and Method 21 alternatives 21 are the only options listed in the proposed rules. 22 These proposed rules under the proposal seems to 23 single out a small number of companies. There are 24many other alternatives that can -- that can find 25 fugitive emissions. Some of these alternatives

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 54 1 with LDAR, PBLAS systems, these alternatives, due 2 to the use of active illumination of hydrocarbons, 3 can detect much lower levels of fugitive emissions. 4 Again, on page 106, "we solicit 5 comments on whether to allow the EPA -- the EPA 6 Method 21 as an alternative to OGI" monitoring. 7 Why not mention all of the other, I think, more 8 effective technologies that are out there for 9 finding methane emissions? 10 Again, page 107, "we are proposing to 11 allow the use of either Method 21 or OGI for 12 resurveys." Again, this excludes a wide variety of 13proven fugitive detection technologies that are out 14 on the market. 15 Page 109, "the monitoring plan must 16 also include a description of how OGI surveys will 17 be conducted that ensures fugitive emissions can be 18 imaged effectively." Again, this assumes the use 19 of a single technology and excludes -- excludes a 20 wide variety of proven fugitive detection 21 technologies. 22 Page 111, "we have identified OGI 23 technology with semiannual survey monitoring as the 24 BSER," which means best system for emission 25 reduction, "for detecting fugitive emissions from

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 55 1 new and modified well sites." The BSER analysis in 2 the proposal does not include a large number of 3 available technologies for fugitive emission 4 detection. Rather, it seemed to compare Method 21 5 technologies versus OGI. The study is not 6 complete. We believe it's inaccurate. 7 On page 115, "the monitoring plan must 8 also include a description of how OGI surveys will 9 be conducted." I can continue with quotes, but the 10main issue with OGI is angle of sun, wind, and 11 ambient temperature differentials. It's not an 12 easy technology to use. We own and operate our own 13 FLIR camera, and the least size that you can see, 14 it's got to be huge. I mean, here in the report, 15page 239, "EPA's recent work with OGI indicates 16 that fugitive emissions at concentrations of 10,000 17ppm are generally detectable using OGI 18 instrumentation." 19 Now, 10,000 ppm levels represent in 20 our business enormous leaks. Now, in a study 21 finding by the AAGL and DOD (phonetic), leaks were 22 detected down to the 4 ppm level. With our 23 technology -- here's a quote from that report. "It 24 is remarkable that a 4 ppm methane plume could be 25 detected by a helicopter at a 50 meter altitude."

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 56 1 And finally, page 322, "the EPA is 2 proposing the use of OGI as a low cost way to find 3 leaks." Low cost versus aid (phonetic), a limited 4 sampling of available technologies in my opinion. 5 Again, the proposal did not include a large number 6 of available technologies with fugitive emission 7 detection, rather it seemed to compare Method 21 8 technology versus OGI. That's all I have. Any 9 questions from you? 10 (No response.) 11 MR. HANDLEY: Thanks for your time. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. Thank 13you for your testimony. 14 Okay. At this time, I'd like to 15 invite Lawrence -- it looks like Cottle, 16 C-o-t-t-l-e, if it's spelled correctly here, and 17 Brent Lammert to please come forward for your 18 testimony. And if Luke Metzger is in the audience, 19 if you could come on down, you're going to testify; 20 and then we're going to take a break afterwards, so 21 queue you up. 22 Good morning, sir. 23 MR. COTTLE: Good morning, sir. My 24name is Lawrence Cottle, C-o-t-t-l-e, I'm a private 25 citizen. I'm here in Dallas, and I come here today

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 57 1 both as a doctor and an 18-year cancer survivor. 2 Shortly after I was diagnosed with an incurable 3 blood cancer in 1997, specialized medical studies 4 revealed traces of benzene and toluene in my blood. 5 These probably came from extended exposure to 6 environmental contaminants. Fortunately today 7 after years of lost career time, many hospital 8 stays, and successful natural approaches to health, 9 I'm much better. I'm very thankful to be able to 10 come before you today to give you my statements 11 and, as you can appreciate, my orientation in 12 environmental issues is primarily health-related. 13 The EPA's newest recommendation to 14 raise the bar in making the oil and gas industry 15 responsible for a greater percentage of its 16 emissions is indeed commendable, but it is only a 17 good start. A new report out by the environmental 18 consulting group, ICF International, states that 19 the methane leaks from natural gas sites make this 20process of hydraulic fracturing for oil and natural 21 gas, quote, nearly as carbon intensive as coal, end 22 quote. The report states that, quote, the EDF 23 found that 65 billion cubic feet of natural gas was 24 released into the air on federal and tribal lands 25 in 2013 amounting to about $360 million of lost

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 58 1 gas. That, as EDF says, is not only an economic 2 loss but an environmental problem, end of quote. 3 Now, this leakage is a problem because 4methane in the gas is 84 times more potent than 5 carbon dioxide over short periods of time and 30 6 times more potent over the long term, end quote. 7 What the EPA is proposing is certainly 8 welcomed by many in this room today, however, it 9 doesn't go far enough. The reason is quite simple. 10 In Texas, nearly -- in Texas, by the year 2018, 11 nearly 90 percent of oil and gas emissions will 12 come from drilling sources already in existence and 13 not covered by the proposed regulations. 14 We appreciate the presence of the EPA 15here today for another reason. Texas House Bill 40 16passed and was signed into law this last spring 17 taking away the home rule right of local 18 communities to control emissions to the extent 19 deemed necessary to protect local citizens. While 20 this law likely will eventually be found to be in 21violation of the Texas Constitution's home rule 22provision, this could take a long time and possibly 23 at great expense. There is one possible quasi 24 remedy, however, while we wait. It is simply the 25 need for greater federal regulations of the amounts

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 59 1 of methane gas that can be released into the air. 2 This can be achieved by simple, 3 low-cost methods of regular leak detection and 4 vapor recovery and enforced cleaning up of older 5 equipment all achieved at a greater level than 6 currently. Doing so will capture more natural gas 7 released into the air, thus both saving the 8 environment and having more gas available for 9 consumption. In other words, tighter caps to 10 capture more gas. 11 This is a commonsense approach that 12you would think would be followed by the oil and 13 gas industry, but not so in Texas. Instead, it 14will take compulsory compliance by the EPA to make 15 this happen. I feel sure that many today in our 16 community hope that the EPA will consider extending 17 these regulations beyond just newly established 18 drilling operations. Not doing so will only 19minimize both the intent to reduce drilling 20 operations emissions and the more favorable results 21 that we are all hoping for. 22 Gentlemen, we don't have much time 23 left to do something significant to clean up our 24world. You surely are aware of that. I hope that 25you will reconsider doing an even better job.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 60 1 Thank you very much. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you -- thank you 3 Mr. Cottle. Are there any questions from the 4panel? 5 (No response.) 6 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 7 testimony, sir. Good morning. 8 MR. LAMMERT: Good morning. My name 9 is Brent Lammert. I'm with FLIR Systems. Lammert 10 is spelled L-a-m-m-e-r-t. 11 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 12 MR. LAMMERT: In my role as vice 13president of sales, I'm responsible for our optical 14 gas imaging business in the USA. Reducing fugitive 15 emissions of VOCs and methane is critical for our 16 environment, for the responsible development of 17 natural resources, and for the continued success of 18 the U.S. oil and gas industry. 19 Optical gas imaging, OGI, has an 20 important role to play in reaching the goal of 21 reducing emissions by 40 to 45 percent within the 22 next ten years. In the proposed rule, the EPA has 23 named OGI as the best system for emissions 24 reduction. As the pioneer for this technology, we 25 are as proud to be contributing a solution to our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 61 1 customers with a highly effective, highly 2 efficient, and low-cost method for reducing 3 fugitive emissions. I heard earlier this morning a 4 question of, will there be availability of OGI 5 technology? 6 As the manufacturer of -- the leading 7 manufacturer of optical gas imaging worldwide, I 8 can tell you that we are ready with operations to 9 build the cameras required to meet the necessary 10 goals. All of the critical components are ones 11 that we build ourselves and can ramp up and scale 12 that production. I've also seen where there's 13 questions of will there be enough trained 14 operators. Our FLIR training center offers a 15 three-day certification class, and that's something 16where we can immediately scale that operation to 17 double or triple. What we're doing right now can 18 go beyond that for training operators very quickly 19 and training consultants. 20 I'd like to go into a few of the 21 advantages of OGI. First, it's highly effective. 22 Since the introduction of our first OGI camera, our 23 customers have found thousands of leaks each year 24 and have significantly reduced their fugitive 25 emissions. Many customers have found significant

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 62 1 leaks that have paid for their investment quicker 2 than expected, some within a few days of the 3 startup of their camera. 4 Recently, Jonah Energy from Wyoming 5 shared their experience in public comments to the 6 Wyoming Department of Environmental Quality, Air 7 Quality Division, saying, each month, Jonah Energy 8 conducts infrared camera surveys using a FLIR 9 camera at each of our production facility 10 locations. Since the implementation of Jonah 11 Energy's enhanced direct inspection and maintenance 12program, EDINN, in 2010, we have conducted over 13 16,000 inspections and repaired thousands of leaks 14 that were identified by the FLIR camera. Based 15 upon the market value of VOC emissions that have 16 been eliminated, they have paid for their entire 17 leak detection and repair program. 18 In Suffolk County, Wyoming, as part of 19 the Upper Green River Basin, it's classified as a 20 large ozone nonattainment zone. Jonah's program, 21 including OGI, had as one of its goals to reduce 22VOC emissions by 75 percent. They've exceeded that 23 goal, and in 2012, 2013, 2014, and so far in 2014 24 [sic], they've had zero days above the 75 parts per 25billion for ozone in that area. That's a wonderful

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 63 1 success. While achieving that goal, they have been 2 profitable. It's actually reduced their costs and 3 increased their profitability by operating a 4monthly OGI program. 5 OGI's efficiency is due to its unique 6 ability to be able to visualize gas leaks and see 7 their source. Estimates for the speed of OGI 8 compared to Method 21 vary, but our most 9 conservative estimate is that it's nine times 10 faster to use an OGI camera versus traditional 11Method 21 instruments. 12 In addition, since the operator can 13 see the source of the leak, they're in a great 14position to be able to make the repairs on site. 15At Jonah Energy, initially their goal was to make 16 70 percent of their repairs during the survey with 17 the camera operator. What they're finding after 18 five years is that they're repairing 90 percent at 19 the well site by the camera operator. 20 We found the cost of operating the OGI 21program to be very affordable even for smaller 22producers and low-producing wells. In a survey of 23 consultants that offer third-party services, we 24have seen prices in the range of 250 to $350 per 25 site survey. When surveying people with in-house

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 64 1 programs, they're running about half that rate in 2 the 150 to $170 per site survey. 3 Most of the leaks are caused by a very 4 small portion of components, .13 -- .13 percent. 5 One of the critical things that we'd like addressed 6 is the -- 7 MR. THOMPSON: Final thoughts. 8 MR. LAMMERT: We'd like the frequency 9 of inspections at a quarterly rate. We would like 10 that not to be tied to a percentage of leaks, and 11we'd like to have resurveys done with the same 12 technology that found the leak. 13 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 14 MR. LAMMERT: Thank you. 15 MR. THOMPSON: I have a question for 16you, if you don't mind. Because I was trying to 17 catch this here, you said that repairs were made at 18 90 percent at the well site by the camera operator? 19 Could you repeat what you said on that front, 20please? 21 MR. LAMMERT: Yes. At Jonah Energy, 22 their original goal was to have the camera operator 23perform some of the leak repairs while on site. 24 Their initial goal was 70 percent of the leaks. 25 They're finding that they're able to make

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 65 1 90 percent of those repairs during the course of 2 their inspection, and that's increasing the 3 efficiency of their team. 4 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 5 clarifying that. Are there additional questions? 6 (No response.) 7 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 8 your testimony, sir. 9 MR. METZGER: Good morning. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 11 MR. METZGER: I'm Luke Metzger. I'm 12 the -- it's M-e-t-z-g-e-r. I'm the director of 13 Environment Texas. We're a nonprofit advocate for 14 clean air, clean water, and open spaces. 15 Earlier this year, President Obama 16 remarked that we are the first generation to 17 experience the impacts of global warming, and we're 18 also the last generation with the chance to do 19 something about it; and we are very much feeling 20 the impacts of global warming right here in Texas. 21 Of course, in 2011, we went through the worst 22 single-year drought in our history which cost more 23 than $8 billion in damage to farmers and let some 24 towns' drinking water wells to go dry. 25 Just in May, we experienced the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 66 1 wettest May in Texas history, which led to historic 2 and devastating flooding throughout the state 3 costing more than 20 Texans their lives including 4 an entire family in Wimberley, Texas, whose house 5 was ripped from its foundation by the floodwaters 6 and taken down the river where they met their 7 death. 8 I met with some of the families in 9 Wimberley who told me that if it weren't for the 10 screams from the family in that house, they would 11have -- they wouldn't have woken up, and they, too, 12would have succumbed to those floodwaters. 13 We also know that global warming is 14 causing the heat to rise here in Texas. A study by 15 Risky Business, a project of former Mayor Bloomberg 16 and Treasury Secretary Paulson found that in Texas, 17you know, we know it's hot here. We're used to 18 that, but it's going to get much hotter. An 19 average of the last 30 years, we experienced 20 43 days over 95 degrees in temperature. But by mid 21 century, we will get up to more than 106 days of 22 temperatures over 95 reaching Arizona levels of 23 temperature, and that hotter temperature is going 24 to come with more heat-related deaths. 25 The study found that in the next five

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 67 1 to 25 years, rising heat from global warming will 2 add 2,500 deaths -- heat-related deaths going up to 3 4,500 deaths in the next 25 to 45 years. And we 4 also know recent research shows that sea levels 5 while -- they're going to significantly rise if we 6 burn the earth's remaining oil, gas, and coal 7 deposits, leading the entire Antarctica ice shelf 8 to melt, which would raise sea levels up to 9 200 feet and putting much of Texas under water, so 10 we know that oil and gas are a big part of the 11problem. They have said today they have taken 12 steps to reduce emissions, but we know that recent 13 research confirms that many leaks go undetected 14 and, in fact, actual emissions are much higher than 15we know. 16 A study published last month in 17 Environmental Science & Technology found that 18 gathering equipment and processing facilities are 19 leaking natural gas at rates eight times of the EPA 20 estimates. As you've heard, Texas is not 21 addressing the problem. Our regulators are captive 22 regulators and allow the oil and gas industry to 23 get away with very serious pollution problems. 24 I've over -- seen them issuing permits to expand 25 the use of flaring. Operators at the Eagle Ford

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 68 1 Shale flare up to eight percent of all the gas. In 2 some counties, it's as high as 30 percent. So 3 given all of the catastrophic impacts we're seeing 4 from the burning of oil and gas, the real solution 5 is to leave most of the earth's fossil fuels where 6 they belong in the ground, but we know that this 7 rule is an important step forward to help minimize 8 some of the damage. 9 Unfortunately, it doesn't go far 10 enough. You know, the President has committed to 11 reduce methane emissions from oil and gas by 40, 12 45 percent. This rule gets us, you know, about 13 half the way, but there's more to be done. We do 14need the rule -- this rule or subsequent rules to 15 address not just new oil and gas facilities but 16 existing facilities, as well. That's all I've got. 17 Thank you. 18 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, Mr. Metzger. 19 Before you go, are there any questions? 20 (No response.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, sir. Thank you 22 for your testimony. Okay. At this time, we're 23 going to -- we're going to take a 15-minute break, 24but before we -- before we leave, Dr. Ed Ireland 25 and Jeralynn Jackee Cox will be testifying after

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 69 1 the break. Okay? So let's return at 10:45. Thank 2 you. 3 (Break was had from 10:29 a.m. to 4 10:45 a.m.) 5 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. So we'd like to 6 continue with the hearing, so at this time, I'm 7 going to reinvite Dr. Ed Ireland to come forward 8 and testify. And following Dr. Ireland, will be 9 Jeralynn Jackee Cox. 10 MS. COX: My name is Jeralynn Jackee 11 Cox. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. You're behind 13 Dr. Ed Ireland. Dr. Ireland is next. Thank you. 14 If you'd just -- yeah, right there. Good morning, 15 Dr. Ireland. 16 DR. IRELAND: Good morning. My name 17 is Ed Ireland, I-r-e-l-a-n-d, and I'm the executive 18 director of the Barnett Shale Energy Education 19 Council based in Fort Worth, Texas. That 20 organization is a nonprofit energy education and 21 community outreach organization focused on the 22 Barnett Shale. And, by the way, I do live where I 23 work, and, in fact, I live just down the street 24 from multiple pad sites with multiple wells -- 25 natural gas wells on them as do my son and my

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 70 1 grandson. 2 The American economic system has made 3 the United States a world leader in abundant and 4 low-cost energy thanks in no small part to 5 contributions from Texas. The proposed EPA rules 6 pose a direct threat to the shale energy revolution 7 that is strengthening U.S. energy security while 8 reducing energy costs for Americans. Even worse, 9 the EPA rules you're proposing are largely a 10 Washington-designed solution that is searching for 11 a problem. EPA's own data shows that methane 12 emissions from oil and gas exploration are only 13 1.07 percent of total greenhouse emissions, meaning 14 that methane regulations would impose significant 15 new costs for minimal benefit. 16 Second, at least five recent 17peer-reviewed studies have found that methane leaks 18 from natural gas development are already well below 19 the 3.2 percent leakage threshold, the rate at 20 which scientists believe natural gas may lose its 21 greenhouse gas advantage. 22 Third, according to EPA's own data, 23 natural gas producers have reduced methane 24 emissions by 35 percent since 2007 even as the 25production of natural gas has increased by more

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 71 1 than 20 percent over the same period. EPA data 2 also shows methane emissions from fracking have 3 fallen 73 percent from 2011 to 2013, which is 4 significant because over one-half of all natural 5 gas produced in the United States is the result of 6 hydraulic fracturing or fracking. 7 In fact, the enormous new supplies of 8 clean-burning natural gas as unlocked by fracking 9 have helped the energy-generating sector replace 10 older coal-fired plants reducing carbon dioxide 11 emissions to their lowest level in 20 years since 12 natural gas emits about half the carbon of coal on 13 the average. 14 The UN Intergovernmental Panel on 15 Climate Change has also credited fracking with 16 reducing emissions in the United States which has 17 led the world in reducing CO2 in recent years. 18 Simultaneously, technological innovation and 19 enhanced regulations by the Texas Commission on 20 Environmental Quality have allowed more produced 21 gas to be captured reducing emissions in methane in 22 one of the most heavily drilled parts of the 23 Barnett Shale here in North Texas. Oil and gas 24producers have reduced methane emissions by 25 37 percent since 2011.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 72 1 Instead of allowing these 2 accomplishments to continue, the EPA has apparently 3 decided to arbitrarily insert itself by unleashing 4 a trifecta of unnecessary and costly regulations 5 driving up the cost of energy and slowing new job 6 creation. These include not only new mandates on 7 methane emissions but also for ozone and carbon 8 dioxide. 9 The primary reason why methane 10 emissions are falling is because it is in the 11 economic interest of the oil and natural gas 12 industry to capture as much methane, the primary 13 component of natural gas, as possible. The EPA 14baselessly claims that methane emissions will rise 15 over the next decade even though the current 16 trajectory is downward. More importantly, the 17 EPA's proposed methane rules may actually stem the 18methane reductions by interfering with industry 19 successes. 20 Instead of investing in new 21 technologies, companies will have to divert their 22 investments to compliance and reporting. In fact, 23 financial analysts have already said that EPA's 24methane rule could wipe out small drillers, the 25 same family-owned businesses that drill a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 73 1 significant number of wells here in Texas. 2 In summary, methane emissions are down 3 35 percent since 2007. Ozone levels have fallen by 4 17 percent since 2003, and carbon dioxide emissions 5 are at a 20-year low. We all support cleaner air 6 and smart regulations, but the EPA would do better 7 to pursue a more balanced and cooperative approach 8 that doesn't threaten to undermine the significant 9 progress already underway. Thank you. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Dr. Ireland. 11Are there any questions? 12 MR. MOORE: Dr. Ireland, you had 13mentioned there was some studies that had shown 14 that the smaller driller would be forced out? 15 Without -- not at this moment, if you would put 16 that information in your written comments or 17provide it later in the public comments, that would 18 be fine. 19 DR. IRELAND: Okay. I will be happy 20 to do that. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Additional questions? 22 DR. IRELAND: It was reported by 23 Bloomberg, and it was an Oppenheimer study, but 24 I'll get it for you. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 74 1 testimony. Ms. Cox, please come forward. Thank 2 you for your patience. 3 MS. COX: Good morning, gentlemen. 4 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 5 MS. COX: Can you hear me well? Is 6 this the right angle for the microphone? 7 MR. THOMPSON: Yes. 8 MS. COX: Thank you. My name is 9 Jeralynn Jackee Cox. I live in Fort Worth, Texas, 10 Tarrant County, and so I suppose I'm here this 11morning to represent persons of a certain age, 65 12 and above, who have to breathe the air in Tarrant 13 County. If you were to see a map of Tarrant County 14put out by the Railroad Commission with little dots 15 representing every place there's a gas well, it 16would look like somebody just bled all over that 17 little map. Tarrant County is -- it would depend 18 on the scale to which the map is blown up or 19 reduced, Tarrant County is just blobs of red 20 everywhere, which means we have lots of methane. 21 This was not always true, but it's 22 been true since 2010, 2011. We are also downwind 23 from the East Texas coal plants, the coal-fired 24plants in East Texas, which means we cast -- I 25 realize that today we're talking about methane

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 75 1 pollution, but it all dumps in together as one 2 toxic mix. We get emissions from cars. We get 3 methane. We get coal. So everything you can do to 4mitigate any of those factors might help to make 5 life better for us. 6 Studies have been done by the Dallas 7 Medical Association recently on how much more 8 asthma -- what they did was measure the incidents 9 of asthma attacks correlated with the incidents of 10 bad air days in Dallas. And sure enough, you know, 11 a lot more people were hospitalized for asthma. 12And when we measure the cost of things, there are 13 direct costs to an industry, and the oil industry 14 is -- the gas industry is correct to say that the 15pollution produced by gas is less than the 16pollution produced by coal, but it's all getting 17 into our lungs; and so whatever you can do to 18 reduce methane emissions may also help to reduce 19 the number of attacks of asthma which will help to 20 reduce the cost of Medicare and Medicaid and health 21 insurance and all of the other factors that measure 22 the costs of our individual health. 23 It is because I care about the quality 24 of the air that I have to breathe and the quality 25 of the air that we get in Dallas and Fort Worth

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 76 1 that I ask you all -- first, I thank you for your 2 concern about reducing methane emissions because if 3 it isn't in my backyard, I'm still impacted by 4 whatever happens throughout the country. 5 And if you can't cut the emissions 6 from what is already in place with this set of 7 regs, I hope you can do it with a new set of regs 8 because for me in my neighborhood already on the 9 ground and pushing out poison are the plants that 10 would not be affected by your current regs; so 11hopefully, in the future, you can reach all of it 12 because truly, global warming is a matter about 13 which we have to be concerned. 14 And I watch the videos of the icebergs 15melting, and of the walruses crawling up on the 16 rocks because their environment in the Arctic is 17 disappearing, and I realize that some major changes 18 are on their way. And we are now in a position of 19 just trying to hold the line and mitigate as much 20 as we can. I appreciate what you're doing, and I 21hope that in the future you can also come up with 22 some proposed regs that will help Fort Worth, 23 because Fort Worth, the production is already on 24 the ground and if the regulations don't reach 25 controlling emissions from what's already on the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 77 1 ground, less good is done for Fort Worth than would 2 be possible. Thank you. Please address as much as 3 you can that's possible. I appreciate your time. 4 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 5 time, Ms. Cox. Are there any questions? 6 (No response.) 7 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for 8 your testimony. Okay. At this time, I'd like to 9 invite Kim Feil and Cathy Wallace to please come 10 forward for testimony. 11 MS. FEIL: I'm Kim Feil from 12Arlington. In the ERG Fort Worth million dollar 13 air study done a few years ago, it said that 14methane was two to ten times more than the world 15background levels. Now, the EPA says in the NSPS, 16 during the initial flowback stage, there's no 17 requirement for controlling emissions from the 18 vessel and any gas in the flowback during this 19 stage may be vented. And you admit yourself that 20your inadvertent NSPS coverage tank where they 21 exceed six tons per year could discourage recycling 22 of flowback into wastewater due to the huge 23 throughput of these fracking tanks. These are 24 flowback tanks. 25 I'm asking you to consider these

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 78 1 flowback tanks to be mandated to be pressurized 2 with gas busters so they don't vent in our 3 neighborhoods in that the initial flowback stage 4 all the way to the separator ready stage because no 5 one is regulating the unknown flow that's emanating 6 from the stale waters coming up from the bowels of 7 the earth in our neighborhoods. And we have seen 8 those air testing instrumentations doesn't pick up 9 these inorganics and frac chemicals that are 10 disclosed on the frac chemical disclosure registry. 11 A couple of years ago, that stale 12water odor came into my home with my windows and 13 doors closed and burnt my eyes near the AT&T 14 stadium. Initial flowback needs to go into the 15 tanks because no one regulates the stale water 16 odors and collecting all methane release is 17 important. If the NSPS is to be protective of 18public health, then this is relevant to the 19 revisions because, additionally, the problem with 20 the EPA discouraging or encouraging recycling 21wastewater is that unintended byproducts of the 22water treatment disinfectants are not recommended 23 by scientists because they can make what I call 24 frac on crack. Think of it how the term norm 25becomes T-norm when man adds his touch, so too,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 79 1 does the flowback waste being recycled under those 2 dangerous fracking steins can cause chemical 3 reactions. 4 Avner Vengosh, a geochemist studying 5 gas wastewaters at Duke University says that the 6 disinfection process generates byproducts if the 7 water contains two components. One, organic 8 matter, which is common in many of the streams and 9 rivers. The other component is halogen, which 10means bromide, iodine, that's in our drilling rigs. 11 They did some experiments with halogen that showed 12 a tiny amount of hydraulic fracking fluid mixed 13 with surface water could trigger the formation of 14disinfection byproducts. 15 Some components such as hydrogenated 16 trihalomethane which are extremely toxic, are not 17 being regulated by the EPA, and this could generate 18 from the reduction of wastewater into drinking 19 water utilities. Even the tiniest spill with a 20 small amount of bromide and iodine could trigger 21 the formation of these highly toxic disinfection 22 byproducts in drinking water. If the onsite 23 recycling cannot remove the fracking stein 24 constituents, then transporting this waste into 25 injection wells presents a risk that outweighs the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 80 1 rewards. 2 Posted today on SkyTruth, scientists 3 in Siberia are closely monitoring a series of 4 rising mounds as a spate of fresh craters prompt 5 warnings of spontaneous explosions in the 6 permafrost landscape. They have discovered a mound 7 of soil-covered ice which they believe is set to 8 explode at any moment. This is this morning's news 9 on SkyTruth. It's potentially bigger they say than 10 the 80-meter-wide crater which sparked the whole 11 investigation last year. Up to 20 more have since 12 been identified. Scientists have established these 13 craters are linked to underground methane ponds 14which appear to be warming and releasing gas due to 15 rising temperatures. 16 Now there are warnings that the 17 escaping methane poses a threat to nearby natural 18 gas pipelines and infrastructures for possibly a 19 chain-reaction event, so the unnatural melting 20 causing natural methane releases is out of our 21 control; so all steps to curb manmade methane leaks 22 is more dire now than ever. Thank you. 23 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 24 testimony. Ms. Feil, could you state and spell 25your last name for the record.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 81 1 MS. FEIL: Feil, as in F, 2 Frac-en-stein, e-i-l. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Are there 4 any questions from the panel? 5 (No response.) 6 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for 7 your testimony. Cathy Wallace, please. Hi. Good 8 morning. 9 MS. WALLACE: I'm Cathy Wallace from 10 Irving, Texas, and I remember back in the early 11 '70s when the EPA was founded, how wonderful a 12 government agency that will come in and protect and 13 ensure our health from harmful effects from 14 industry. Future generations can flourish in an 15 environment that is safe. 16 After the EPA opened an office in the 17middle of an industrial area in Kansas City, we saw 18 our air quality improve greatly. Fast forward 19 40 years, and I'm here today to support your 20proposed rules to cut methane and VOCs from our air 21 to ensure the future of our planet. 22 Our state of Texas has been inundated 23 with air, water, and land contaminants by the 24 fossil fuel industry. Our state agencies, the 25 TECQ, the Texas Railroad Commission, ignore these

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 82 1 issues that are created by oil and gas wells that 2 surround us in the D/FW area. The oil and gas 3 industry refuse -- I'm sorry -- refuses to use best 4practices unless they are required. There are not 5 enough regulations in place to protect the citizens 6 from harmful air quality. There are 98 producing 7 gas wells at the D/FW airport and one injection 8 well near where I live. With our prevailing south 9 winds, we have 400 producing wells in Arlington 10 directly to the south of us. 11 When driving by the airport, there's a 12 distinct odor now, and when flying into D/FW 13 airport when the ozone levels are high, there's a 14brown haze hanging over our city. In the past few 15years, there is a noticeable difference when 16 exercising outdoors. It is difficult to breathe. 17 There's a pressing need for improved air monitoring 18 around D/FW. We need more regulations on existing 19 gas well operations as well as new facilities to 20 stop leaks from emitting into the air. 21 In Texas, we are exposed to many 22 dangers and injustices from gas well production 23 that puts the economic burden on the people. We 24 are left to deal with our property values in 25 decline, repairs to our property from damages and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 83 1mounting health costs. There's a sign at a 2 fracking site that is 200 feet from a family's back 3 door. It says, "Danger, Do Not Enter." This tank 4 contains fatal vapors. It is dangerous and 5 irresponsible for the industry to put these 6 operations so close to homes and families. We look 7 forward to the EPA to protect the environment of 8 this nation and its people. Thank you. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, 10 Mrs. Wallace. Are there any questions? 11 (No response.) 12 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Again, thank you 13 for your testimony. 14 At this time, I'd like to invite Cyrus 15 Reed and Lee Bailey to come forward for testimony. 16 MR. REED: Did I win anything? 17 MR. THOMPSON: Come on down. 18 MR. REED: First of all, my name is 19 Cyrus Reed. C-y-r-u-s, R-e-e-d. I'm speaking here 20 on behalf of the Lone Star chapter of the Sierra 21 Club. My brief comments are about it's past time 22 to act on methane, and let me give you the three 23 reasons why before I get into the specifics of your 24 rule. 25 First, it's a valuable product we're

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 84 1 wasting. While we're in the process of 2 transitioning our economy off of fossil fuels, for 3 the time being, the honest truth is, we use them 4 and we're using them; and so it makes no sense to 5 allow methane to escape. Instead, it should be 6 captured, sold, and taxed and help our schools and 7 help our state budget. To flare it, or worse, vent 8 it or allow fugitive emissions is not a good option 9 for anybody. 10 Here in Texas, we appear to be the 11 king of waste. I was looking at the Railroad 12 Commission website the other day, and, you know, 13 they have Rule 32, which says companies that want 14 to flare a well have to get a permit from the 15 Railroad Commission. Fiscal year 2009, 158 permits 16were issued. Fiscal year 2012, 1,963 permits. 17 Fiscal year 2014, 5,207 permits. Now, most of 18 those obviously were flares, but that's still a 19 wasted product, some of which is escaping into the 20 atmosphere; and those aren't the only permits. 21 If you're going to flare or vent past 22 a certain amount of time, you have to have a 23 special permit from the Railroad Commission. We 24have companies -- companies which I consider fairly 25 good companies like Pioneer asking the Railroad

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 85 1 Commission to be able to flare for two years -- for 2 over the next two years for multiple wells. That's 3 not a good outcome for anyone. 4 The Railroad Commission estimates just 5 from these, you know, the estimate is about one 6 percent of our gas overall that we produce is lost 7 through flaring and venting, and obviously as we've 8 heard before in certain counties, it's much, much 9 higher. 10 The second main reason to deal with 11 this is obviously climate. Methane cooks our 12 climate. There are a whole lot of estimates, but 13 we all agree that it's worse in the short term than 14 carbon dioxide, so if we're going to deal with 15 climate, we've got to deal with methane, and the 16way to deal with it is partially the oil and gas 17 industry. 18 And the third main reason is because 19 these gases also have other impacts, public health 20 impacts. Captured methane can also capture gases 21 that cause ozone. We have big problems in Texas, 22 in Dallas, in Houston, in San Antonio, and Austin, 23 and it appears from various studies that part of 24 the culprit is emissions from oil and gas. 25 The second big point I'm going to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 86 1make, Texas doesn't seem likely to deal with 2 methane emissions on its own. We've got a Railroad 3 Commission which we had a commissioner back in 2012 4 said, time to look at our flaring and venting 5 rules. Let's bring people together, stay together, 6 do something about it. Nothing has been done. 7 Fast forward to 2015, that same commissioner is now 8 the chairman and says, EPA, stay out of our 9 business, what is this ridiculous war on fossil 10 fuels doing here in Texas? We don't want them. 11 Well, the Railroad Commission doesn't 12 appear to want to deal with this issue. TECQ did 13 back in 2011 adopt new permits by rules for gas and 14 oil facilities in that area of the Barnett Shale, 15but they didn't extend it to the rest of the state. 16 In fact, the legislature stepped in through SB 1134 17 in 2011, and basically told TECQ don't do any 18 further air emission regulations unless you do, you 19 know, monitoring data, you don't use worst case 20modeling and you do a full cost benefit analysis; 21 so the legislature has basically tied the hands of 22 TECQ to deal with this issue, and the Texas 23 legislature through not only Senate Bill 1134 but 24 HB 40, which will make it more difficult for cities 25 and counties to do any of these on their own.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 87 1 So we need you guys to step in with a 2 strong rule, and your rule before you today is your 3 good first step. As mentioned by multiple people, 4 it could be made stronger if it applies not only to 5 new facilities but also existing ones, so I would 6 say on this idea of the CTG's and smog-producing 7 counties, that's not enough. This should really be 8 a requirement throughout Texas because a lot of 9 these counties do contribute to ozone formation and 10 smog formation. 11 Leak detection and repair, we think 12 that's one of the most important things you can do. 13 We would suggest monthly or, at a minimum, 14 quarterly required inspections, and we don't think 15 those should be reduced over time. We think those 16 should be constant, and we think those programs 17will pay for itself. It's way too long to allow 18 industry up to six months to repair leaks. We need 19 a more reasonable time to repair these leaks. 20 More flaring is not needed in Texas. 21We would like the rule not to emphasize flaring as 22 an outcome but emphasize capture as the best 23 outcome. Flaring is obviously preferable to 24venting, but it's often done incorrectly. Anyone 25 driving down 183 can see it being combusted

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 88 1 inaccurately and we don't have the number of 2 inspectors to make sure it's actually happening, so 3 and finally, last point, we suggest in the rule and 4making description of rules, you look at cost and 5 the cost benefit analysis of actually the gas 6 that's been saved. That is a benefit, as well as 7 the other benefits from reducing ozone and smog and 8 haze, so we would like you to include that in the 9 final description of the rule. Thank you very 10much. 11 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Reed. 12Are there any questions? 13 MR. MOORE: Yes, one. You had 14mentioned that you believe that the time for repair 15 of leaks following the survey is too long. Do you 16 have a suggestion? 17 MR. REED: So we'll be -- the Sierra 18 Club will be submitting detailed comments, but six 19months just seems like a long time. And I know 20 that's only for certain kinds of leaks, but it just 21 seems like an awful long time, but I'll let the 22 experts handle that particular question, but we 23 will -- we will be addressing that. 24 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 89 1 your testimony, yes, sir. Good morning. 2 MS. BAILEY: Good morning. Hello. My 3 name is Leigh Bailey. I'm an attorney. I have my 4 own law firm specializing in family law. I'm here 5 today really just to thank you, thank you so much 6 for this proposal. It means a lot to me because 7 I'm a mother of two, and I really feel like our 8 local leadership has failed. 9 The prior speaker talked about HB 40. 10 We knew we didn't have -- we weren't going to have 11 any luck cleaning up the air, helping kids not have 12 asthma at the state level. We knew we wouldn't be 13 able to get enough ledge (phonetic), so we tried 14pushing forward legislation at the city council 15 level and recently, our last session, our ledge 16 said that cities and counties no longer can pass 17 ordinances such as no fracking. So thank you. I 18 know Texas has a certain reputation, but I promise 19you, there are mothers such as me who are so 20 grateful for this proposal. 21 Let's see. Some talking points. 22 Texas regulators have expanded the use of permits 23 to allow extended flaring, issuing more than 3,012 24permits in the financial year 2014. Compared to 25 2015, so far, we've had 5,207 permits. It's out of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 90 1 control. We really need your help. 2 The other point I wanted to make is 3 analysis has shown that operators in the Eagle Ford 4 Shale south of San Antonio are flaring or venting 5 up to 8 percent of all gas produced. In some 6 counties, it is as high as 30 percent of all gas. 7 Again, I really just came here to 8 thank the EPA. One small consideration, I hope you 9 will please consider expanding this proposal to all 10 existing oil and gas facilities. By 2018, nearly 11 90 percent of all methane emissions in the oil and 12 gas sector will come from existing facilities. The 13 U.S. cannot meet its international greenhouse gas 14 commitments unless it cuts methane from gas sources 15 from 40 to 45 percent from 2012 by 2025, so at 16 best, the core proposal, which I am so thankful 17 for, will keep methane emissions flat. So just a 18 humble suggestion, please consider expanding it to 19 existing oil and gas facilities. Thank you. 20 That's all. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Questions? 23 (No response.) 24 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you very 25much. Okay. At this time, I'd like to invite

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 91 1 Amanda Crowe. Please come forward for your 2 testimony. Good morning. 3 MS. CROWE: Good morning. Thank you 4 for having me. I'm here on behalf of Congresswoman 5 Eddie Bernice Johnson, and my name is Amanda Crowe. 6 That's A-m-a-n-d-a, C-r-o-w-e. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 8 MS. CROWE: The Congresswoman regrets 9 that she couldn't be here today as she is in 10 Washington, DC. We are here today to discuss EPA's 11proposal to reduce methane, a potent greenhouse gas 12 from one of the largest sources, the oil and gas 13 industry. Today's proposal is one piece of the 14broader effort we need to undertake to ensure a 15healthy environment and future for our children and 16 grandchildren. 17 Methane is 20 times more potent than 18 carbon dioxide in its greenhouse gas effect, and as 19 such, cutting methane emissions is critical to 20 addressing climate change. This proposal has the 21 added benefit of reducing harmful organic compounds 22which are a precursor to smog. Unfortunately, 23 those of us from the Dallas-Fort Worth region are 24very familiar with the negative effects of smog and 25 are accustomed to seeing orange and red alerts

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 92 1 warning us about being outside because the air is 2 too polluted for it to be safe. 3 As a Texan, I know well the importance 4 and the impact of oil and natural gas development 5 in this country. Our economy has relied on fossil 6 fuels to power our manufacturing base, our 7 transportation and agricultural sectors, and more. 8 And for the foreseeable future, the country will 9 continue to develop these resources and 10 technologies to achieve our energy, economic, 11 national security, and in some cases our 12 environmental objectives. 13 However, we must acknowledge that the 14development of any fossil fuel resource can have a 15 significant negative environmental impact. I'm not 16 speaking about the environment in the abstract but 17 about the very oceans we fish, the air we breathe, 18 and the water we drink. These, too, have real 19 economic value. While few people get rich from 20 clean air and water, as a former nurse I know that 21 everyone benefits from a healthy environment. 22 As a ranking member on the Committee 23 on Science, Space, and Technology, I have heard 24 from countless experts about the risks associated 25with climate change. Record temperatures, an

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 93 1 increase in heavy rain events, and rising seas are 2 a few examples of what Americans are confronting 3 now and can expect to see more frequently in the 4 coming years. The scientific evidence shows we 5 cannot afford to wait, but we must act now if we 6 are to see -- if we are to stand a chance of 7 lessening the impact of climate change. 8 Leaders of the faith community have 9 also been calling on us to address climate change. 10 Tomorrow, Pope Francis will speak to a joint 11 session of Congress, and in his recent encyclical, 12 Pope Francis notes that climate change represents 13 one of the principal challenges facing humanity and 14 that the poor will be disproportionately affected 15by its impacts. Pope Francis also states the very 16 urgent need to develop policies so that in the next 17 few years the emission of carbon dioxide and other 18 highly polluting gases can be drastically reduced. 19 We will likely hear from some today 20 that EPA regulations are killing the economy and 21 jobs and that the proposal won't make any real 22 difference in addressing climate change and that 23 industry and the State of Texas do not need the 24 federal government to tell them how to protect 25public health and the environment. As much as some

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 94 1might wish for a world where big environmental 2 issues are addressed voluntarily by industry or 3 through the workings of the free market or through 4 individual state regulations, we all know from 5 experience it does not work that way. 6 Instead, we need to listen to our 7 scientists, to our religious leaders, and the 8 American people by supporting broad-based national 9 policies that will cut greenhouse emissions because 10 acting on climate change is not only an 11 environmental imperative but both in near-time and 12 long-term public health and economics imperative, 13 as well. Thank you. 14 MS. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you, 15 Ms. Crowe for being here. Are there any questions 16 from the panel? 17 (No response.) 18 MR. THOMPSON: And please pass along 19 our thanks to Congresswoman Johnson for providing 20 testimony today. Okay? Thank you. 21 Okay. At this time. I'd like to 22 invite Krystal Henagan and Brandon Morton to please 23 come forward for testimony. Hi. Good morning. 24 Please state and spell your name for the court 25 reporter, and then you can give your testimony.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 95 1 MS. HENAGAN: Krystal Henagan, 2 K-r-y-s-t-a-l, H-e-n-a-g-a-n. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Please 4proceed. 5 MS. HENAGAN: My name is Krystal, and 6 I'm from San Antonio, Texas. I am -- I represent 7 Moms Clean Air Force, but I'm also a mother. In 8 San Antonio, we're starting to see the effects of 9 pollution from the Eagle Ford Shale. Recent photo 10 chemical models is showing pollutants coming up 11 from the Eagle Ford Shale, and then they're 12 combining with the NOx emissions because we are 13 saturated with NOx in San Antonio, and they're 14 forming ozone right over our city. San Antonio is 15 quickly becoming the second worst city in our state 16 for ozone pollution. This year we have surpassed 17 Houston, so we're right behind Dallas. 18 And what that means for our kids is a 19 couple of years ago, we moved to San Antonio from 20 West Texas. Our family relocated there, and my son 21 started to develop severe asthma. He was four 22years old at the time. His asthma became 23 uncontrolled in San Antonio. He was put on seven 24different medications at their highest dosages to 25 control his asthma, and it would still not control

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 96 1 it to the point where the pharmacist thought that 2 the dosages were a mistake and wouldn't fill them 3 at first. So he contacted the doctor, and the 4 doctor said, yeah, that's correct, that's seven 5medications at their maximum dosages, so I saw him 6 in states of being medicated to control his asthma 7 that, as a parent, you never want to see your child 8 in. It was almost a -- kind of a different 9 consciousness that he was in because the Albuterol 10 and everything was so hard on his system. 11 And we realized whenever we left for 12vacation one time that his asthma started to go 13 away. His oxygen levels were also in the 80's 14whenever we lived in San Antonio, so once we 15 realized that his oxygen levels and his asthma was 16 controlled outside of San Antonio, at the time I 17was trying to finish my degree, so we shuttled him 18 between extended families' homes between Houston, 19 which is normally known for bad air, and Lubbock; 20 and that was very hard on our family. We saw the 21health and financial burdens that asthma caused us. 22 Additionally, there have been 23 exhaustive efforts by school districts in the 24 San Antonio area to combat the kids that have 25 asthma that are suffering like my son did, so North

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 97 1 East Independent School District and Northside ISD 2 both have asthma prevention programs where they 3 have staff -- full-time staff, registered nurses, 4 to implement asthma programs because what was 5 happening before is kids were being sent from 6 school in an ambulance to the hospital, more missed 7 days of class. 8 So they decided to have to be reactive 9 instead of proactive, and so they're having to 10 react to this pollution that -- a lot of it is 11being seen coming from the Eagle Ford Shale, and 12 there they're having to implement these programs 13 and policies just to combat how bad our air is 14 actually becoming in San Antonio. So I'm really 15 thankful for this new methane rule because it seems 16 like it is something that can be proactive so that 17parents like me and schools district don't have to 18 implement or go through a reactive process because 19 of air pollution because it completely tore our 20 family apart, and the economic burdens to families 21 of kids with asthma is very, very hard to go 22 through when you're just trying to get on your 23 feet. Thank you so much for your time. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 25 testimony, and before you go, how is your son

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 98 1 today? 2 MR. HENAGAN: Excuse me? 3 MR. THOMPSON: How is your son? 4 MS. HENAGAN: He's doing better. His 5 asthma is better controlled, but it's not nearly as 6 bad as it used to be. We ended up moving, so thank 7 you very much. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Questions from the 9 panel? 10 (No response.) 11 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for 12 being here today. 13 Good morning. 14 MR. MORTON: Hello. Good morning. 15 Thank you for allowing us to speak today. I think 16 it's a very important topic. My name is Brandon 17 Morton. That's M-o-r-t-o-n, like the salt or the 18 steakhouse for those of you who are thinking about 19 lunch soon. I'm representing several different 20 organizations today. My full-time job is for North 21 Lake College as a sustainability officer. That's 22part of the Dallas County Community College 23 District. One of my jobs is to help manage the 24 greenhouse -- the major six greenhouse gases of the 25 college including all staff, employees, and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 99 1 students, which also includes things like commuting 2 to campus, which is a very difficult challenge, as 3 you might imagine. 4 All seven colleges in the Dallas 5 County Community College District are committed to 6 carbon neutrality by the year 2040, so you might 7 say we have an interest in this EPA methane rule in 8 terms of helping us accomplish our goals to reach 9 carbon neutrality. 10 I'm also on the Executive Committee 11 for the Texas Regional Alliance for Campus 12 Sustainability. This is a statewide consortium of 13 colleges and universities. It includes major 14 universities like Rice, Texas A&M, and UT Austin, 15 all of which are committed to reducing carbon 16 emissions and gases like methane and VOCs. And 17 kind of linking it from the education sector to the 18 industry, I also serve on the board of directors 19 for the Sustainability Management Association. 20 This is an international group that is committed to 21 sustainability as a trade. It is a 501(c)(6) 22 organization. Members of that organization include 23 waste management, Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, 24 Sustainable Silicone Valley, California State 25University, University of Washington, University of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 100 1 Johannesburg in South Africa, and now Dallas County 2 Community College District. 3 I very much support the new EPA rules 4 for methane management. It has to do with 5 environmental health, public health, safety, and 6 preventing ozone and other formation of harmful 7 greenhouse gases. Thank you very much. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 9 testimony. Are there any questions? 10 (No response.) 11 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you. 12 Okay. At this time, I'd like to 13 invite Cathy McMullen to please come forward for 14 testimony. Good morning. 15 MS. MCMULLEN: My name is Cathy 16 McMullen. I'm a registered nurse -- home health 17 nurse, and I live in Denton, Texas. One year ago, 18 the voters of the City of Denton passed a ban on 19 hydraulic fracturing by 59 percent. We had to do 20 this because state regulators and politicians 21 refused to enact adequate rules governing oil and 22 gas development. This ban upset the oil and gas 23 industry so much that they paid $12 million to 24politicians to overturn our democratically elected 25ban. The ban was the last resort. It was after

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 101 1 industry, state regulators, state politicians, and 2 our local municipalities failed us. 3 The State of Texas cannot be trusted 4 to protect its most precious asset, and to me, that 5 is not oil and gas. That is the children and the 6 environment of this state. The citizens of Texas 7 have tried to protect ourselves by following the 8 rules. We don't follow the rules when someone is 9 looking at us. We are not talking about following 10 the -- not paying politicians to change the rules, 11 and we're not talking about intimidating local 12municipalities to bend the rules. This is the 13 industry playbook. 14 The oil and gas industry has broken 15 all of the rules, and now they're asking the EPA to 16make rules they want even though the average 17 citizen of Texas needs stronger protections that 18 rule changes will bring. 19 Methane control measures must be 20 included in all existing equipment. Denton, Texas, 21has a population of 120,000 people and is 22 approximately 84 square miles, so we're not a very 23 large city. Within the city limits of Denton, we 24have 300 gas wells. Denton has been informed by 25 one single company that they plan on developing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 102 1 another 500 gas wells in the City of Denton. There 2 are approximately ten production companies in the 3 City of Denton, so that's just one company's plan. 4 Denton has the worst air quality in the state of 5 Texas. Our air quality is worse than the Houston 6 Ship Channel. This has been a consistent theme in 7 Denton for the last three years. Denton is going 8 to be polluted out of existence if help does not 9 come soon. 10 We need the EPA to enact and enforce 11 the strongest rules possible to reduce methane 12 emissions. It is not about jobs creation. 13 California has more stringent methane emission 14 capture rules than the EPA is imposing, yet their 15 job growth has outpaced Texas. This is about a 16 greedy industry's bottom line. 17 We are asking the EPA to do what Texas 18politicians and state regulators have refused to 19 do, protect the people of Texas and its 20 environment. Thank you very much for your time. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, as well. 22 Could you just state and please spell your name for 23 the court reporter. 24 MS. MCMULLEN: Cathy, C-a-t-h-y. 25 McMullen, M-c-M-u-l-l-e-n.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 103 1 MR. THOMPSON: E-N. Thank you. 2 MR. MOORE: I wanted to ask you if you 3 could repeat what you said about the area of 4 Denton. I think you said it's 84 square miles? 5 MS. MCMULLEN: Yes. 6 MR. MOORE: How many wells now are 7 projected? 8 MS. MCMULLEN: We have 300 wells now 9 in an 84-square-mile area. We have one production 10 company who told us when we had to repeal the ban, 11 they are projecting developing another 500 wells in 12 the city limits, and we have basically ten 13production companies working in the city limits of 14 Denton, so that's just one company. 15 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 16 MS. MCMULLEN: Thank you. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Okay. I'd 18 like to, at this time, invite what appears to be 19 Eulaine Hall and Amy Allen to please come forward 20 for testimony. 21 MS. HALL: My name is Eulaine Hall. 22 I'm a resident of Dallas, Texas. I have some 23 respiratory problems. That's not why I'm here. I 24 grew up in Pampa, Texas, oil and gas country. I 25 remember as a child not understanding why they were

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 104 1 wasting the gas with those flares that I grew up 2 with. I still to this day wonder that question 3 because I understand now after 82 years there's 4money to be had if they would capture the flaring. 5 It doesn't make sense to us citizens who are 6 ignorant of the technical aspects of it all. 7 You know, I speak to you only as a 8 citizen. I could testify for an hour about my 9 personal experiences especially as a full-time 10 RV'er for 15 and a half years traveling the United 11 States, watching things depreciate. Acid rain, do 12you remember acid rain? The Glacier National Park. 13 Oh, you know, we could see things happening in 14pollution -- all kinds of pollution, but now to 15 learn that methane -- I wrote to the Dallas News 16 and said, I'm embarrassed because I thought carbon 17 emissions was a big danger. Methane is, what, 86 18 times? I don't know technically. I'm no good at 19 this, but I know it's greatly more dangerous, and I 20 don't understand why the state of Texas can't do 21 something to protect its own citizens, but they 22won't. 23 And they approved that with the House 24 Bill 40 that says we don't even have the right to 25 say whether we want a gas well in our city limits.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 105 1 We don't have that right anymore, so believe me, we 2 thank you. Oh, we bless you for coming to Dallas, 3 letting us hear from you. I hope you understand 4 that the EPA is our last line of defense and wish 5 you everything well, and we so appreciate you. 6 Thank you. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. And we 8 thank you for letting us hear from you today. Are 9 there any questions? 10 MR. MOORE: No, but I appreciate her 11 testimony. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. Thank you. 13 Good morning. 14 MS. ALLEN: Good morning. As a 15 solutions provider with proven technology to help 16 reduce methane emissions from the oil and gas 17 sector, Rebellion Photonics stands today to help 18provide comments on EPA's draft rules in order to 19 ensure it reflects the current state of methane 20 science and technology to address this issue. 21 We realize that oil and gas companies 22 emit 7 million tons of methane from their 23 operations every year. These emissions are 24 currently projected to increase 25 percent over the 25 next decade. Methane emissions are a significant

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 106 1 climate and energy waste problem that's only going 2 to continue to grow. We believe there are ways the 3 draft rules could be improved and our technology 4 could help solve this problem. Gas cloud imaging 5 technology such as Rebellion's photonic camera is 6 available, it's cost-effective, and it's a proven 7 solution for detection and reduction of methane and 8 other VOCs of the installation of new equipment, 9 upgrades, and modified sources in the oil and gas 10 industry. 11 While we credit the EPA with their 12 initial proposal for leak detection inspections, 13 the step up and down provisions based on a number 14 of leaky components is based on faulty logic. 15 Studies have shown that leaks by nature are random 16 and thus make comprehensive and frequent 17 inspections critical. Emerging data shows that a 18 disproportionate share of fugitive emissions can 19 come from a relatively small percentage of leaks 20 and that these can appear almost anywhere at any 21 time. 22 More frequent intervals such as 23monthly or quarterly inspections is what is needed 24 and can be just as cost effective. Stepping up the 25 frequency of inspections allows for better

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 107 1 identification and fixing of leaks which will 2 greatly impact the overall reduction of methane. 3 Rebellion's GCI gas cloud imaging camera employs 4 advanced hyperspectral infrared imaging technology. 5 We engage in advanced detection algorithms and we 6 employ powerful data storage and transmittal 7 technology. 8 The GCI is different from other leak 9 detectors in the fact that the leak detection is 10 automated. It can be identified and quantified, 11 and we can monitor wide areas from a safe location. 12 With the ability to see the leak, operators can 13pinpoint the leak and initiate repair on the spot. 14 The GCI also has the potential to catch leaks early 15 and help operators avoid walking into hazardous 16 situations. 17 We have seen in Colorado where some of 18 the state regulations are the strictest in the 19 country that significant reductions can be made in 20 a cost-effective manner. Our technology, which is 21 an approved instrument there in Colorado by the 22 Colorado Air Quality and Control Commission around 23 their Reg 7 STEM and LDAR program, is cost 24 effective at only $250 per site. This is 25 affordable even for some of the lower-producing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 108 1 wells. We believe that Colorado regulations could 2 be a model for the nation. 3 Customers there are complying with the 4 law, reducing emissions in a very cost-effective 5manner. With some of our customers there, we see 6 that we can cover upwards of 25 sites per day, and 7 in one week we have looked at over 1,100 pieces of 8 equipment. Our camera allows for speedy, efficient 9 leak detection with the ability to scan sites 10 easily, and it enables companies to perform 11 inspections more often. It also supports our 12 customers' ability to prioritize those leaks and 13 those repairs and thus reduces the spent labor, 14 time, and the gas losses that we see in the 15 environment. 16 When putting all of these factors 17 together in dollars and cents, it pays for the 18 service operation of the camera itself. Well site 19 inspections in Colorado have also offered us 20 numerous examples of the importance of more 21 frequent LDAR inspections. We have seen with 22 something as simple as a speed patch that you may 23 look at it today and it may have a dirty seal 24 that's leaking, but you could have looked at it 25yesterday or a month ago and you wouldn't have seen

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 109 1 that very same seal. 2 A seal that can be leaking now is, 3 again, that random act of nature, so inspecting a 4piece of equipment appears to be something where 5 you need it on a more increased basis versus a 6 stepdown biannual basis. The importance of 7 follow-up surveys after repair is just as critical 8 to ensure correct maintenance and correct repair of 9 the equipment and to also ensure that one leaky 10 component didn't create another hazard. 11 Again, this is where Colorado has led 12 the nation in their approach to regulations. They 13 have their companies keep logs of their 14 inspections, their leaks, their first, second, or 15 third attempt at repair, and then finally 16 inspection of that fixed equipment. 17 Rebellion has created a turnkey 18 approach to this for our customers. We create a 19 web portal for every one of our customers as part 20 of that $250 per site. We store all of their well 21 inspection videos, and we also will then store all 22 of their maintenance logs. In the end, we are 23 finding the forward charge of the EPA and the 24 thought of potentially stricter methane emissions 25have companies taking note and beginning to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 110 1 implement actions with their sites by utilizing our 2 proven technology and others in an attempt to 3 capture fugitive emissions and reduce lost product. 4 In the end, lower emissions are good 5 for companies, the industry as a whole, the people 6 of this world, and the environment of all. Thank 7 you. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Just two 9 things from me. 10 MS. ALLEN: Sure. 11 MR. THOMPSON: Would you remind me, 12who are you representing, and also, could you state 13 and spell your name for the court reporter? 14 MS. ALLEN: Sure. It's Amy Allen, 15A-l-l-e-n, and it's Rebellion Photonics. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 17 MR. MOORE: You had mentioned earlier 18 in your testimony your statement that your 19 technology can also quantify the leaks? 20 MS. ALLEN: It can. 21 MR. MOORE: Do you plan to provide 22 information regarding that in your public comments? 23 MS. ALLEN: I can, if needed to, yes. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 25 MS. ALLEN: Thank you very much.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 111 1 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, 2 I'd like to invite Kim Limberg and Darin Schroeder 3 to please come forward. Kim Limberg? Okay. 4 Mr. Schroeder, please. Good morning. 5 MR. SCHROEDER: Good morning. Almost 6 afternoon. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Almost. 8 MR. SCHROEDER: My name's Darin 9 Schroeder. That's D-a-r-i-n, S-c-h-r-o-e-d-e-r, 10 and I'm an attorney at Clean Air Task Force, and on 11behalf of Clean Air Task Force, I would like to 12 congratulate and thank the EPA and everybody 13 involved on taking the incredibly important step to 14 reduce methane emissions from the oil and gas 15 including many sources that are not covered by the 16 2012 NSPS. Stationary sources within the oil and 17 gas sector are the leading -- leading industrial 18 emitters of anthropogenic methane, a powerful 19 greenhouse gas that, according to the most recent 20 report from the IPCC, on a pound-for-pound basis, 21 impacts the climate 36 times more than carbon 22 dioxide, and the impacts are even larger in the 23 short-term, 87 times more powerful over a 20-year 24 time frame. 25 Not only will the proposed standards

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 112 1 reduce methane emissions, they will also reduce 2 smog-forming pollution and toxic air pollutants 3 like benzene and hexane limiting the public's 4 exposure to these dangerous pollutants. 5 The Agency's proposal represents the 6 first direct and enforceable regulation of methane 7 and, indeed, of greenhouse gases from the oil and 8 gas sector. This is important and commendable and 9 is an absolutely critical first step toward 10 achieving President Obama's goal of reducing 11methane emissions from this industry to 40 to 12 45 percent below the 2012 levels by the year 2025. 13 I intend to raise three issues, 14 although there's much more I could say and that we 15will say in detailed written comments preferably on 16November 17th. 17 First, the scope of the rule must be 18 expanded to include additional important emission 19 sources that were not included in the proposal. 20 Second, the EPA must change the leak detection and 21 repair requirements, and sometimes we'll call that 22 LDAR, to require fixed inspections at frequent 23 intervals as opposed to the proposal's -- the 24proposal's preferred variable frequency. And 25 third, while this is an important first step, the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 113 1 Agency must quickly follow it up by taking action 2 under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act to 3 address methane emissions from existing sources in 4 the sector. 5 The first point, EPA must expand the 6 methane standards to apply to methane emissions 7 from liquids unloading operations, intermittent or 8 snap -- snap-acting pneumatic controllers, 9 compressors at well sites, and storage vessels. 10None of these coverage -- these sources are 11 currently covered -- are currently covered by the 12 current methane proposal, and only storage vessels 13 have standards imposed on them under the 2012 VOC 14 rule. 15 In order to ensure the most protection 16 to the public from the industry's air emissions, 17 EPA should expand the methane proposal to address 18 emissions from each of those sources. 19 Second, EPA's preferred work practice 20 standard for fugitive emissions from well sites and 21 compressor stations does not go far enough. EPA 22 states in its proposal that it believes a facility 23 with proper operation would likely find one to 24 three percent of components to have fugitive 25 emissions. Following this line of reasoning, EPA's

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 114 1 proposal will allow an owner/operator that finds 2 less than one percent of a facility's equipment to 3 be leaking to decrease the frequency of their LDAR 4 inspections to annually for as long as the 5 proportion of equipment leaking at the facility 6 remains below one percent. 7 Under the Clean Air Act, EPA's work 8 practice standards must reflect the best 9 technical -- technological system of continuous 10 emission reduction. EPA's proposed standard for 11 fugitive emissions does not rise to this level. 12 Besides incentivizing an owner/operator to not 13 discover leaks, the Agency's preferred work 14practice standard assumes that there is a 15 relationship between the percentage of pieces of 16 leaking equipment and the actual emissions from the 17 facility. 18 However, data from the City of Fort 19 Worth Natural Gas Air Quality study and the 20 University of Texas study show that the magnitude 21 of emissions from facilities can be largely 22 independent of the percentage of leaking equipment. 23 The total fugitive emissions are not tied to the 24number of pieces of leaking equipment and thus the 25variable frequency that would be required by the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 115 1 proposal does not constitute the best technological 2 system of continuous emission reduction as required 3 by section 111(h). 4 Indeed, the best system to reduce 5 emissions from fugitive -- excuse me. The best 6 system to reduce emissions from fugitive emissions 7 is to implement a fixed quarterly inspection 8 frequency at a minimum. 9 And third and finally, methane New 10 Source Performance Standards trigger mandatory -- 11mandatory duty for EPA to regulate emissions of 12 that pollutant from existing sources within the oil 13 and gas sector. EPA must now begin work on 14 establishing emission guidelines for existing 15 sources within the sector for every non-HAP 16pollutant for which no NAAQS is promulgated. 17 Because methane is not a HAP and no NAAQS have been 18 issued for methane, EPA must issue guidelines under 19 section 111(d) for this pollutant if and when the 20New Source Performance Standards are finalized. 21 In order to meet the Administration's 22 goals for reducing methane pollution from this 23 sector, EPA will need to act diligently to address 24 emissions from existing sources with enforceable 25 standards. Others today have mentioned the recent

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 116 1 report by ICF International has found that 2 90 percent of the industry's emissions in 2018 will 3 result from sources that existed in 2011. This is 4 significant because it means that 90 percent of the 5 emissions come from sources that are not subject to 6 regulation by either the 2012 VOC-based NSPS or the 7 Agency's methane proposal. EPA must quickly issue 8 emission guidelines addressing methane emissions 9 from the oil and gas sector under 111(d). 10 Thank you for the opportunity to 11 comment today. You've take a much-needed step 12 forward in deciding to directly regulate methane 13 from the oil and gas sector. These issues and 14 others which my limited time here today won't allow 15me to cover will be discussed in written detailed 16 comments that we submit to the Agency. Thank you. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, 18 Mr. Schroeder. Before you go, are there any 19 questions? 20 MR. MOORE: Yes. I have one brief 21 one, yes. You had mentioned that well site 22 compressors should be covered? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. 24 MR. MOORE: Do you have further 25 information you can provide in your comments that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 117 1 would indicate that those compressors (inaudible) 2 than what we previously believed? 3 MR. SCHROEDER: Yeah, I do. I don't 4 have the information in front of me right now, but 5 I anticipate being able to submit that later on 6 down the road. Thank you. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 8 testimony. 9 I'd like to invite, if she's here, Kim 10 Limberg. Okay. Very good. Good morning. 11 MS. LIMBERG: Good morning. 12 MR. THOMPSON: I was going to say, 13 could you state and spell your name for the court 14 reporter, and then proceed with your testimony. 15 MS. LIMBERG: Yes. Kim Limberg, 16 K-i-m, L-i-m-b-e-r-g. Okay. I live in Irving, 17 Texas. I think this movement to -- to have more 18 strict regulations on methane emissions is critical 19 for our clean air. As a mom, I think it's critical 20 for the future of future generations. I recently 21 found a report in the -- on the oil and gas field 22 operations violations enhancement. There's a chart 23 at the Texas Railroad Commission oil and gas field 24 operations data which stated that since January of 25 this year, out of 104,108 inspections, 46 percent

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 118 1 were found in violation. This is oil and gas 2 enforcement data, and I can give you a copy of that 3 after I'm done. This percentage has held steady 4 since 2012, roughly half of all their inspections 5 show a violation on oil and gas field operations. 6 In the Environmental Science & 7 Technology study, we found it's titled, "Methane 8 Emissions for the Natural Gas Transmission and 9 Storage System in the United States," the largest 10 emission sources were found to be fugitive 11 emissions from compressor-related equipment and, 12 quote, super emission facilities. The study 13 estimates that there are 250 percent times the 14 typical transmission storage emissions that are 15 required to be reported to the EPA, so the gap in 16 the estimates is equal to a gap in the required 17 reporting. So I think we need to have them report 18 everything, not just the transmission and storage 19 time. 20 Then I want to give you an example of 21 flaring, which I witnessed on my way to a funeral 22 in Houston somewhere between Madisonville and 23 Huntsville down I-45 on the southbound side close 24 to the freeway. It was visible, a dramatic flaring 25 of a gas wellhead. And it was continuously flaring

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 119 1 on my drive down. Of course, I didn't stay and 2 watch the whole time. Then on my return from the 3 funeral, it was still flaring the next day; so I 4 don't know how long these kinds of things are 5 allowed to go on. 6 But about three years ago, we took a 7 family trip to Corpus, and I wanted to visually see 8 if there's a place in Texas where the air was 9 cleaner. So Texas is pretty flat, so you can see 10 the horizon well and you can see the brown haze in 11 the ozone layer. I watched the skyline all the way 12 from Dallas to Corpus, and it never stopped being 13 brown; so you can see it's -- it's something I 14 think that we really need to pay attention to. And 15hearing the studies say that methane is 86 times or 16 87 times more potent over a 20-year period in 17 reacting and creating ozone, I don't think we can 18wait to be as stringent as we can in creating 19 regulations to reduce and stop that. 20 And another point is, the Texas 21 Railroad Commission seems to allow a lot of reports 22 to go directly from industry to them. And when I 23 was -- when I found this data that said they had 24 found -- in 104,000 inspections they found these 25violations, I don't know what percent of the entire

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 120 1 industry that is. I don't know how many 2 investigations that requires, so I'm interested in 3 the EPA finding out do they look at two percent of 4 these kind of inspections over a certain period of 5 time, or do they look at 80 percent? I think the 6 EPA should know. That's something that maybe Texas 7 should be reporting to the federal level. 8 And I would like to see the Texas 9 Commission on Environmental Quality take more of a 10 hands-on control over all of our environmental 11 concerns. I don't think that some of our things 12 should be in a different agency like the Texas 13 Railroad Commission that issues the permits. There 14 should be a separation between who is watching the 15pollution and regulation controls and who is 16 divvying out permits. 17 So one of the greatest concerns I have 18 is our water, so everyone knows that in 2011, we 19 had Fukushima, and a lot of that radioactivity 20 entered the Pacific Ocean and started hitting the 21 California coast in 2013 and in large quantities. 22 It contaminated our fish population, salmon, cod, 23 all sorts of fish, and Canada said that it reported 24 a tremendous contamination of fish. Then we had 25 the rain, so when the atmospheric cycle starts

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 121 1 taking in ocean water and it starts raining and 2 traveling eastwards with the current, then that 3 rain is hitting in Arkansas and Texas and I think 4 we may have had some of that. 5 Some reports from Arkansas, increased 6 radiation, rainfall, and I think one way you can 7 tell just from a laymen's standpoint, if you're an 8 organic gardener, all of a sudden your produce is 9 giant sized because radiation tends to multiply 10 cells very fast. You, might want to get a Geiger 11 counter to see if that produce is radioactive. 12 MR. THOMPSON: I don't mean to cut you 13 off, but your final notes, please. There's a timer 14 right in front of you on your monitor, so your 15 final thoughts in 30 seconds. 16 MS. LIMBERG: Oh, okay. 30 seconds? 17 Okay. So if the surface water is contaminated, 18 lakes, rivers, and stuff with the radioactive rain, 19 we must protect the groundwater even more so, and 20 the hydraulic fracturing impacts that dramatically 21 if there are any kind of breaks and so forth in our 22 fracturing, so please take control back from the 23 Texas Commission of Environmental Quality and the 24 Texas Railroad Commission. Thank you. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 122 1 testimony. Before you go, there was a question 2 here from the panel. 3 MR. MOORE: I have one question. You 4 had mentioned that there were some inspections that 5 were done. Of the inspections, 46 percent yielded 6 a violation? Can you clarify for me? I didn't get 7 it down when you were going through it. Who was 8 doing the inspections? Was it the Railroad 9 Commission or TECQ? 10 MS. LIMBERG: Okay. 11 MR. MOORE: What regulations were 12violated? 13 MS. LIMBERG: Okay. I will give it to 14you. It's the report on oil and gas field 15 operations violations and enforcement found on the 16 Texas Railroad Commission's website. Chart one, 17 oil and gas field operations data, and I have it 18 right here, and then they break down what kind of 19 violations those are in the next three pages, so 20 I'll hand that over to you. 21 MR. MOORE: That will be fine. Turn 22 it in to the registration table. 23 MS. LIMBERG: Okay. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 25 testimony, Ms. Limberg. Okay. At this time, I'd

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 123 1 like to invite Sherrell Blazer to please come 2 forward for testimony. 3 MS. BLAZER: Hi. Hello. My name is 4 Sherrell Blazer. I'm here with Sierra Club Beyond 5 Coal Campaign. I'm the organizer in Dallas, and I 6 really want to thank you all for being here to take 7 public comments today. See, there's so many -- 8 there's so many different ways that we can 9 appreciate these new rules, and I'm really hoping 10 that they're going to be as stringent as possible, 11 as protective as possible of public health and of 12 the environment not only because of greenhouse 13 gases and how they're impacting cities, especially 14 urban areas. 15 I work with communities in Dallas, and 16 especially children. There are 90,000 uninsured 17 children in Dallas who have asthma, and there are 18 citizen groups that work with them that will 19 volunteer with them, that try to help them to 20 control their health and try to keep them as 21healthy as possible. 22 But when you look at something like 23 the Cook County, you know, Hospital, when you look 24 at that study, you know, those -- all of those 25 90,000 children without healthcare translates into

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 124 1 statistics that we see about children who go into 2 the hospital and don't check out, right? I think 3 the statistic is one in six black boys check in for 4 asthma and pass away due to uncontrolled asthma. 5 Those are real statistics. Those are real 6 children. Those are real families that have to 7 take care of them. The burden on the families in 8 Dallas is enormous. 9 I happen to know that many people here 10 know my personal story, but my family has also been 11 impacted by air quality in Dallas, by pollution in 12 Dallas, by respiratory illness in Dallas. Well, 13 actually out of Mansfield. We were living out of 14Mansfield and near a lot of gas drilling, near a 15 lot of the same kind of pollution that would be 16 controlled with these new rules. And I was eight 17months pregnant. My husband went into an asthmatic 18 coma. He had an asthma attack and went into a 19 coma. 20 The stress of the situation made me go 21 into premature labor, and I've always worked in air 22 quality; so I had seen all of these statistics 23 about, you know, so many lives saved by these 24 rules, so many days off of work missed, so many 25 days from school missed. You know, but being in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 125 1 that position of feeling like I could lose my 2 husband and my child at the same time, it's a very 3 powerless feeling thinking that you're doing 4 everything you can to protect your family and 5 realizing that it's actually out of your hands, 6 right? 7 If the politicians don't get it right, 8 if the EPA doesn't get it right, if the regulators 9 don't get it right, no matter what you do, no 10matter how hard I work at my job to try to convince 11 the people to have the best policies as possible, 12 no matter how much we go out and talk about the 13 dangers of air pollution and what you can do to 14protect yourself, no matter whether I'm watching, 15you know, the television to figure out is it an 16 orange day or is it, you know, a red day or, you 17 know, what kind of a day is it, is it safe to be 18 outside and breathe today, you know, if I'm buying 19 organic, if I'm filtering my water, if I'm sending 20my children outside the city to the best schools, 21you know, what does it matter if we don't get these 22policies right? It doesn't. 23 Women like me, men like my husband, 24will be in the hospital fighting for their lives, 25 and I say it all the time that the world is not a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 126 1magical place for a child who is fighting just to 2 be in it. We need to not rip their childhoods away 3 from them. We need to be protective of children 4 and of families. We need to be protective of all 5 of the citizens who live here and pay their taxes 6 to be here and are doing the best they can from 7 where they are. 8 And if people don't know the real 9 dangers of air pollution and if uncontrolled 10methane releases and all of the co-pollutants that 11 go with that, that's okay because they don't have 12 to be experts. Y'all are the experts, right? This 13 is why you're here is to protect us, and I just 14 really hope and pray that these rules are the most 15protective they can be because it can be life and 16 death every day actually for some people. 17Actually, it is. Thank you very much. 18 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you 19 for your testimony. Are there any questions? 20 (No response.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for 22 being here today. Okay. At this time, I'd like to 23 ask Leslie Harris to please come forward, and I can 24 officially say good afternoon. 25 MS. HARRIS: Good afternoon. I'm

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 127 1 Leslie Harris. I live in Flower Mound, and I can 2 see from the people in the room that you guys have 3 heard all of the statistics and technical things 4 that, you know, way more than I can provide, but I 5 just wanted to talk about things from a personal 6 level. Ever since I moved to Flower Mound, I've -- 7 well, you know, Flower Mound is one of the cities 8 that was first -- one of the first cities in which 9 drilling started, and I have had constant sinus 10 infections. I've had bronchitis a couple of times, 11pneumonia. 12 I have a friend whose family was 13 having so many health problems, and she noticed the 14 fracking rigs around her, and she went to the TECQ; 15 and they tested her home and found that the air was 16 46 times -- had 46 times more pollutants in it than 17 the average urban air. She subsequently went and 18 she and her daughter had their blood tested, and 19 they found such disturbing levels of fracking 20 chemicals in their blood that they actually moved 21 right out of Flower Mound and later, I think, out 22 of the state. 23 I was in a gathering in Flower Mound 24where a woman came up to me and introduced herself 25by saying, hi, I'm one of the cancer moms. And I

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 128 1 hadn't heard that expression before, so I asked her 2 what that meant. And she said, well, there's about 3 ten women who meet at the elementary school where 4my kids go, and they're all under the age of 40; 5 and they all have breast cancer, and, you know, it 6 turns out that right next to that school was one of 7 the first fracking setups that was done in Flower 8 Mound. They all were, I think almost all of them, 9 were under 40, so they all found the breast cancer 10 from self-examination or doctor's examinations. 11Not mammograms because they're really too young to 12 have mammograms every year. 13 You know, I'm really worried about 14what these chemicals are doing to the planet. We 15 can't deny it anymore. There is global warming and 16methane and all of these other chemicals are 17 helping cause it, and it's -- it's an emergency, so 18 I'm so thankful that you are here and you are going 19 to put in these new rules which I hope will be as 20 stringent and as helpful to people's health and 21welfare and I hope that you will -- it sounds like 22 a cliche, but this is the time to put people over 23profits, and I'm here for my kids who live in 24 Dallas. 25 I have considered moving, but my

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 129 1 children live here. They have businesses and jobs 2 here, and I think we need to stay and fight. We 3 need to fight for our planet and our -- our air and 4 our water, so thank you very much. I hope -- I 5 want -- I want a clean and safe environment for not 6 just my kids but your kids and grandkids. Thank 7 you. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Harris. 9 Before you go, are there any questions from the 10panel? 11 MR. MOORE: I have one quick one. You 12mentioned the school where the ladies were. Do you 13 know how close to any of the wells or other oil and 14 gas facilities were to that school? 15 MS. HARRIS: I do not know. I do not 16 know the exact. I know they were close, and there 17 are maps. If you Google it, they are maps of where 18 the clusters were, and my friend who moved lived 19 about a mile from one. 20 MR. MOORE: What's the name of that 21 school. 22 MS. HARRIS: Liberty Elementary 23 School, I believe. Thank you. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for being 25here today, Mrs. Harris.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 130 1 Okay. At this time, we're going to 2 break for lunch. We'll reconvene back in this room 3 promptly at 1:00 p.m. Thanks, everyone. 4 (Break was had from 12:04 p.m. to 5 1:06 p.m.) 6 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Folks, we're 7 going to get started. So good afternoon. My name 8 is Fred Thompson, and I'm the chair for today's 9 public hearing. Thank you for coming today. 10 Joining me on the panel are, to my right, Bruce 11Moore with the EPA's Office of Air Quality Planning 12 and Standards, and to my left, Rob Lawrence with 13 EPA Region 6. 14 We're here today to get your comments 15 on EPA's proposed rules relating to the oil and 16 natural gas sector. The specific rules are, No. 1, 17 Oil and Natural Gas Sector Emission Standards for 18New and Modified Sources; No. 2, Source 19 Determination for Certain Emission Units in the Oil 20 and Natural Gas Sector; and No. 3, Review of New 21 Sources and Modifications in Indian Country, 22 Federal Implementation Plan for Managing Air 23 Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged in Oil 24 and Natural Gas Production in Indian Country. 25 EPA's administrator signed the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 131 1 proposed rules on August 18, 2015. The proposed 2 New Source Performance Standards would establish 3 methane and VOC standards for hydraulically 4 fractured wells and require owners and operators to 5 find and repair leaks. The proposed rule also 6 would extend emission reduction requirements 7 further downstream covering equipment in the 8 natural gas transmission and storage segments of 9 the industry that was not regulated in the Agency's 10 2012 rules. 11 The proposed Source Determination Rule 12 clarifies the EPA's air permitting rules as they 13 apply to the oil and natural gas industry. We also 14 are taking comments on the proposed federal 15 implementation plan to implement the Federal Minor 16New Source Review Program in Indian Country for oil 17 and natural gas production. The plan, known as a 18 FIP, would be used instead of site-specific minor 19New Source Review, preconstruction permits in 20 Indian country. It would incorporate emission 21 limits and other requirements from six EPA emission 22 standards including the 2015 proposed updates to 23 the New Source Performance Standards on which we 24 are taking comment today. If you would like more 25 details on the proposed rules, there are fact

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 132 1 sheets available at the registration desk. 2 Before we get started, I'd like to go 3 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 4 that will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 5 First, be sure you have checked in at the 6 registration desk even if you are not planning to 7 speak today, and if you signed up to speak online 8 or by phone but haven't told us that you're here, 9 please step out to the registration desk, which is 10 to my left here, and let the EPA staff know that 11you've arrived. 12 I will call the speakers up in pairs. 13 When your name is called, please come to the podium 14 and -- at the front of the room, right in front of 15me here. When I call you up to speak, please state 16your name and spell it for the court reporter. 17 Your comments will be transcribed and included in 18 the record of comments on the proposed rule. It is 19 important that you tell us which rule or rules you 20 are speaking about. Each speaker will have five 21minutes to give comments. When you're finished 22 speaking, please remain at the podium until the 23person next to you has completed his or her 24 testimony. In fact, you can just take a seat on 25 the front row until the person -- the second person

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 133 1 has completed his or her testimony. 2 We're here today to listen to you, 3 however, a panel member may ask questions to 4 clarify your comments. I will then call up the 5 next pair of speakers and so on. If you've brought 6 a written copy of your testimony, please give that 7 to the staff at the registration desk before you 8 leave today. We will put any written comments 9 submitted today in the official docket for the 10proposed rule. We also have comment cards 11 available at the registration desk if you would 12 like to submit additional written comments. If you 13 want to comment in writing later, stop by the 14materials table -- table near the registration desk 15 and pick up a copy of the instructions for 16 submitting written comments. Comments must be 17 received by November 17, 2015. Again, comments 18must be received by November 17, 2015. 19 Let me assure you that EPA gives just 20 as much consideration to comments we receive in 21writing as we do to comments received at public 22 hearings like this one. So if you have more 23 comments that you would like to provide the EPA, 24please submit them by the comment period deadline. 25 Your comments will be reviewed. If you have any

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 134 1 questions during the day, please see the staff at 2 the registration desk and somebody will assist you. 3 Thank you again for taking the time today to share 4your comments on the EPA's proposal. 5 With that, let's get started, and at 6 this time, I'd like to invite Tamara Bounds. I 7 think that's B-o-u-n-d-s, and Paul Wehnert, 8 W-e-h-n-e-r-t, to come up for testimony. Bounds. 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: She is in the press 10 conference. He went to get her. 11 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Mr. Wehnert, 12please come forward. We'll let her follow you. 13 MR. WEHNERT: Good afternoon, 14 everyone. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. How 16 are you today? 17 MR. WEHNERT: Good. I hope you're 18 doing well. My name is Paul Wehnert, 19 W-e-h-n-e-r-t, and I'm employed by Heath 20 Consultants, Incorporated, of Houston, Texas. A 21 little background on Heath Consultants. I 22 currently serve as the senior vice president of 23 Heath Consultants, been there 35 years. Heath 24 Consultants is actually one of the largest leak 25 detection service providers and equipment leak

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 135 1 detection equipment manufacturers in North America, 2 and what I wanted to talk about is some of it, and 3 we've been heavily involved in this business since 4 1933, so we've been doing leak detections back in 5 1933, back in the old manufactured gas days, if you 6 can believe that, back with vegetation where you 7 went out and looked for vegetation signs. 8 We've come a long way to where we are 9 today, and there's been all sorts of technology and 10 will continue to be a lot of technology. We are 11working today with different organizations like 12 PRCI, like GTI, like Nisearch, DOE, developing leak 13 detection technologies to help operators and 14 regulators reach that happy medium, what's best for 15 industry from a regulatory standpoint and what's 16 best for industry as a whole and what's best for 17 the public as a whole. And we kind of ride that 18 fence as an organization because we work with 19 regulators, we work with industry, we works with 20 trade associations to try to keep that happy 21balance of what is best to make the world go round. 22 And so what I want to talk about is 23 some of the regulations currently, and there's a 24 lot of discussion on the OGI, the optical gas 25 imaging camera. There was a gentleman earlier with

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 136 1 FLIR. We also have an optimal gas imaging camera. 2 There are several other ones that are out there on 3 the market, as well. 4 It is a valuable tool, however, it's 5 not the only tool. There are a number of tools out 6 there, and I just call it a tool in the toolbox. 7 There's different applications depending on what 8 type of facility you're inspecting, aboveground 9 facilities, below-ground piping. There's a number 10 of different things, so there's various tools. To 11 try to fit one tool -- to say that one tool is the 12 answer to everything I think is a mistake. 13 Some of it goes back to the Method 21 14 technology and, yes, there are Method 21 leak 15 detection technologies. That rule was generated, 16you know, several years ago; and even since that 17 rule came out, there's a number of different 18 technologies, laser-based, optical-based, that were 19 never developed during Method 21 days, and so what 20 I -- what I hope is in the regulations, and I'll 21provide this written, as well, proposing some of 22 the other technologies that are cost, price -- you 23 know, some gentlemen talked about the cost, that 24 it's going to cost some of smaller operators and 25 stuff.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 137 1 There's tools that can go down to 2 several thousand dollars on up to $100,000 and 3 everywhere in between. There's vehicle-mounted 4 applications. There was a girl that spoke from 5 Rebellion about a fixed system. There's aerial 6 systems. We're working on drone-based systems 7 right now, so I hate to see the regulation come out 8 prescriptive to just the OGI camera because I 9 think -- I think that's a big mistake. There are 10 scenarios even with an OGI camera, depending on 11 ambient temperatures, gas temperatures, and things 12 of that sort where it can actually not see a leak, 13 so I just would hope that some of these other 14 considerations are taken of different technologies. 15 Now, when I write with the 16 submissions, I'll kind of describe some of the 17 other technological advances that are out there 18 being worked. We work a lot with DOT, SIMNSA, and 19 some other regulatory environments, not in the mid20 and upstream like we're talking about here, but 21more on the downstream and LDC gas operations, and 22 there's different technologies in that marketplace, 23 too. We also develop -- you know, there's a lot of 24 talk now with, you know, determining the 25 quantification of the leaks, as well.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 138 1 There's a lot of tools that are out 2 there that can do that as well as other devices 3 which we work with like the high-flow sampler and 4 other things there. But I'll run down the 5 different technologies that are out there and the 6 other platforms and I would hope you would consider 7 some of these instead of just kind of being 8 prescriptive to one -- one technology out there. 9 Thank you. 10 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 11 testimony. Are there any questions? 12 MR. MOORE: One thing I'd like to ask 13you, when you use the term optical gas imaging, are 14 there a variety of technologies that you would 15 consider to fit those three words? 16 MR. WEHNERT: Yes. In fact, a while 17 back, some of the -- before Quad O and some of the 18 subpart W types, the EPA actually came out with 19 some language they called the optical illuminating 20 device, which is not an optical gas imaging camera. 21 It's really the wrong nomenclature for it, but 22 there are laser-based technologies out there today. 23 We manufacture a number of laser-based technologies 24 that are about a fifth of the cost of an -- of an 25 optical gas imaging camera, and there are literally

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 139 1 thousands of them used around the world every day 2 performing leak detection surveys. 3 And so the language, the way it's 4 written now, it's not a Method 21 tool and it's not 5 an optical gas imaging camera; therefore, that 6 particular tool can't -- right now doesn't meet the 7 regulations to be used, yet they're out there every 8 day finding thousands of leaks out there in a day 9 at a cost of about a fifth of what an optical gas 10 imaging camera is. 11 And I'm not shooting down an OGI 12 camera. We actually have one ourselves that I 13mentioned earlier. There's applications for that, 14but it's not an application for everything. It 15 really depends on the facility -- the type of 16 facility, the type of leaks you're looking at, and 17 so forth. 18 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 19 MR. THOMPSON: Additional questions? 20 (No response.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Okay. Mrs. Bounds? Is she back in the 23 room? 24 (No response.) 25 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 140 1 I'd like for Tricia Cortez to please come forward 2 for your testimony. 3 Good afternoon, Ms. Cortez. 4 MS. CORTEZ: Good afternoon. My name 5 is Tricia Cortez. That's T-r-i-c-i-a, Cortez. I'm 6 executive director with the Rio Grande 7 International Study Center. So many kudos and 8 applause to the EPA for taking this first step in 9 addressing the methane problem which is affecting 10my community and the greater part of the world. 11 The rules you are proposing, however, don't go far 12 enough. We ask that you add existing oil and gas 13 infrastructure into your plans. I come from deep 14 South Texas, the border city of Laredo, and I'm 15 representing an environmental nonprofit, the Rio 16 Grande International Study Center or RGISC. 17 This is spring, our Texas state 18 leaders passed House Bill 40 which strips away 19 fundamental powers from cities to regulate oil and 20 gas activity, so I'm also here to speak on behalf 21 of the hundreds of thousands of people in our 22 region who aren't informed or knowledgeable about 23 the hazards caused by methane pollution and who 24 can't be here today. 25 RGISC was chartered in Texas in 1994.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 141 1 It was founded by biologists and concerned citizens 2 on both sides of the river to protect and preserve 3 Laredo's only source of drinking water, the 4 Rio Grande, and its environment. When the Eagle 5 Ford Shale came onto scene, we helped form the safe 6 fracking coalition in 2011. We wanted to better 7 understand lessons learned from other communities 8 and figure out how to minimize the health and 9 environmental risks that come with this new type of 10 drilling. 11 Horizontal drilling and hydraulic 12 fracturing have just now entered our city limits, 13 and I'm trying to protect my community and keep 14drilling at bay or at least a safe distance from 15 families, but we really need your help to ensure 16 that the strictest methane rules are in place to 17protect our people. 18 We all know methane is a powerful 19 greenhouse gas and a dangerous player in the 20 climate change of today. Climate change affects us 21 all. We have received warnings about how our 22planet is marching toward a two degree celsius 23 increase, a danger point for our planet according 24 to the Copenhagen Accord. Because of our heavy 25 dependence on the fossil fuel economy, scientists

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 142 1 now say that we are on track for an average global 2 temperature rise of four degrees celsius, a point 3 that's not sustainable for our planet in the 4 earth's biodiversity. 5 A world bank report has noted it's not 6 clear that adaptation to a four degree celsius 7 world is possible. That's frightening. So change 8 is never easy, but we must do something now and 9 that moment is now, right here, in this room. 10 Climate change is and will be the most critical, 11yet hard to pin down and control, environmental 12problem of our time. 13 We in Texas are a part of this 14problem. We account for 30 percent of all oil and 15 gas production in the United States, which means 16 that much of the 7 million tons of methane 17pollution that is vented, flared, leaked, and 18 otherwise wasted from oil and gas operations occur 19 right here in Texas, but the flip side of that coin 20 is that we can also be a part of the solution, but 21we do need a fearless EPA with stronger rules to 22 lead the way, and the people are with you. Do it. 23 In my neck of the woods, the Eagle 24 Ford Shale has exploded in a short period of time. 25 In 2009, it had 107 producing oil and gas wells.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 143 1 As of September 1, that number is now 14,565 wells. 2 If we in the U.S. are serious about meeting our 3 greenhouse gas reduction commitments, all of these 4 facilities must be included, addressed, and 5 regulated in the new rules. This is a no-brainer. 6 Force the oil and gas industry to stop the release 7 and leakage of unwanted methane into our 8 atmosphere. 9 Industry says these rules are too 10 burdensome to bear, that it will cost some 11 $420 million over the next two years, but that's -- 12 next ten years, but that's small change for these 13 companies. Some of the larger players in the Eagle 14 Ford Shale make that amount of money per year in a 15 single day of sales. For example, Apache sold 16 assets in Australia in April for a cool 17 2.1 billion. In December 2014, EOG made a joint 18 sale of assets in Canada raising 410 million for 19 the company in one fell swoop. And this summer, 20 S.M. Energy sold gas-producing assets in Oklahoma 21 for a cool $270 million, and now these guys are 22 coming to Laredo. 23 What's going to happen to our families 24when they start expanding into our neighborhoods 25 like a hungry Pacman and won't be held accountable

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 144 1 for their pollution? What an injustice. It's an 2 outrage. Rules like this are the only way to fix 3 the problem. It's the only way to reduce VOCs and 4 other smog-forming pollutants and benzene and other 5 carcinogens and things we don't want in the 6 precious air that we breathe. 7 Our state regulators and elected 8 officials are part of the problem. Intimidated -- 9 intimidated by and in the pocket of industry, they 10 have specifically refused to regulate methane and 11 instead are granting thousands of permits each year 12 to allow flaring, and this must stop. Please 13 include all new and existing facilities into your 14 rules. Let's move toward a low-carbon economy now 15 and begin to decouple these emissions now. 16 I want my one-year-old daughter, 17 Marley, to grow up in a healthy environment that is 18 free from methane, and I want her to grow up in a 19 century where climate change was curbed because we 20 had the guts to address these types of 21 environmental problems now. Thank you so much. 22 (Applause was heard.) 23 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Cortez. 24Are there any questions? 25 MR. MOORE: No, thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 145 1 MS. CORTEZ: Thank you very much. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Tamara Bounds? 3 Is she in the room? 4 MS. BOUNDS: Yes, I am. Good 5 afternoon, my name is Tamara Bounds, and I live in 6 Mansfield, Texas. I am president of the homeowners 7 association, cofounder of Mansfield Gas Well 8 Awareness, and I live in a gas patch. In case you 9 can't tell, I'm native Texan. Today is my 10 granddaughter's birthday. She has asthma and lives 11 close to a gas well site with 39 permitted wells. 12 She is ten years old today and hopes to be a 13 veterinarian when she grows up, so I come before 14you today on her behalf and the other affected 15 Texans to say we support you and EPA's first step 16 to reduce methane pollution, and it's about time. 17 Mansfield has had enough of fracking 18 and methane leaks. We have 206 active gas wells 19 within 35 miles and another 306 on the way. Homes 20 are right next to these sites, and on my 21 PowerPoint, you'll see all of that. Our complaints 22made to operators, TECQ, Texas Railroad Commission, 23 about the air pollution about these sites goes days 24 and weeks before they're addressed, if at all. 25 Most TECQ investigators are poorly trained and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 146 1 don't know what to look for. Once I helped turn on 2 the FLIR camera to show them what they needed to be 3 looking for. 4 Even if some methane leaks are 5 resolved, some unmanned sites still spew methane 6 for more than five hours next to schools and homes 7 due to faulty leak detection systems and 8 ineffective equipment. With at least four 9 documented flare episodes of emissions coming off 10 of leaking valves, pipes, tanks, compressors, 11 reports still come back without a violation. 12 Repairs and modifications never happen. 13 We have found that the third and 14 fourth generation gas companies are running 15 operations at a bare minimum within our city. They 16 do so without maintenance logs. They use faulty 17valve equipment, gaskets needing replacement, and 18 no emergency shutdown in place. One site next to 19my home has just spent over a half a million 20 dollars at the compressor site on remediation of 21poor, disrepaired, and faulty equipment at the 22 operating site. This took our citizens three years 23 of consistent conversations with them and pressure 24 to do this at what cost and whose responsibility. 25 Our regulators and legislative

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 147 1 leadership are not adequately regulating oil and 2 gas pollution and have specifically refused to 3 regulate methane. They tell us nothing is wrong. 4 We know better. We have become experts living next 5 to those polluting industries. We have been taught 6 that TECQ is controlled by polluting industries. 7 They're understaffed and underfunded. The 8 legislature has neutered the Texas Railroad 9 Commission. 425,852 wells with only 158 10 inspectors. 11 Our legislators has failed us by 12 enacting poor laws that strip away local control at 13 the direction of the oil and gas industry. Sadly, 14 and for the most part, industry refuses to use best 15practice unless they're required. Voluntary 16programs simply don't work here in Texas. Rules 17 like the EPA's proposals are the only way to fix 18 the problem. Our hope today lies in better 19protection with the EPA having a Texas-sized 20 backbone. This proposal will be the first ever 21 national methane controls for the oil and gas 22 industry. 23 The proposed controls are sensible. 24 They're cost effective, and they're already 25 utilized by some in the gas and oil industry.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 148 1 Under the new methane standards, oil and gas 2 operators will install controls and will reduce not 3 only methane but as a secondary benefit also reduce 4 other hazardous pollutants. We hope our officials 5 will begin to see the bigger picture of 6 sustainability for our environment and future 7 Texans and for my granddaughter's sake, Cameron. 8 Thank you for your time. 9 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 10 testimony. Are there any questions. 11 (No response.) 12 MR. THOMPSON: Any questions? No. Do 13pass along a happy birthday to your granddaughter 14 on behalf of the EPA. Thank you. 15 Okay. At this time, I'd like to 16 invite Ed Soph and Carol Ann Soph, S-o-p-h, to 17please come forward. 18 MR. SOPH: Good afternoon. My name is 19 Ed Soph, and that's spelled S-o-p-h. Here we are 20 45 years after the passage of the Clean Air Act, 21 and the air in my city, Denton, Texas, is so bad 22 that health professionals warn residents to -- that 23 to breathe it may seriously impair their health and 24 for some, their lives. The air in my city is so 25bad that it receives an F from the American Lung

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 149 1 Association, as I'm sure you know. The question 2 is, how can this be? I think you know. 3 The state agency charged with 4protecting our air's quality doesn't. The TECQ is 5 a politically poisoned and industry-corrupted body 6 that spends more time and money suing the EPA than 7 protecting the right of Texans to breathe clean 8 air. Now there's no more time to play this game. 9 Climate collapse, not climate change. Climate 10 collapse is staring us in the face. The future is 11bleak. You must act now to reduce methane 12 emissions and their attendant VOCs on all polluting 13 facilities, new and existing. You have all of the 14 facts. More are coming in every day in favor of 15 this sort of regulation. So please, act 16meaningfully and forcefully. 17 Denton is contacting on you. Texas is 18 counting on you. The nation is counting on you, 19 and the earth is counting on you. Thank you very 20much for your time. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir, for 22your testimony. Any questions? 23 (No response.) 24 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Good afternoon. 25 MS. SOPH: Good afternoon. My name is

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 150 1 Carol Soph, and I'm from Denton, Texas. I would 2 like to tell you a little bit about our city. 3 Denton has led the state in renewable energy. 4 40 percent of our electricity is coming from a wind 5 farm, and soon, 14 percent more is to come from a 6 solar farm. We also have the best incentive 7 program in place to reduce consumption of energy 8 with better insulation, windows, and green building 9 incentives. 10 Even with all of these reductions in 11 fossil fuel consumption, Denton has some of the 12worst air quality in Texas. I believe there are 13 two things that strongly contribute to these poor 14 air quality ratings. One is the presence of the 15 300 existing gas well sites in the city, which in 16many cases leak methane and VOCs continually due to 17poor maintenance, cracked wellheads, and casings 18 and lack best available control technology to 19prevent dangerous accidents. 20 The other reason our air will get 21worse is that thousands of acres of land within the 22 city limits have been leased by a gas -- by gas 23 well companies. One of these companies told our 24 city council last month they have leased 25 10,000 acres and want to put one well every 20

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 151 1 acres. That is 500 new wells, wells that will be 2 next to homes, schools, parks, and hospitals. 3 Due to this poorly regulated industry, 4 Denton's efforts to be a safe, healthy, and 5 sustainable community have been destroyed. We have 6 had spills. We have had a blowout at our airport, 7 which was made into a no-fly zone because there was 8 so much methane in the air, and it went on for 9 14 hours. First responders came and told the 10people that lived close by not to put their lights 11 on in their homes because a spark might ignite the 12methane, there was so much methane coming out. It 13 went on 14 hours. 14 There have been explosions from 15 lightning strikes in the backyards of a 16 subdivision. People did not know what to do, 17 didn't even know a gas well was there. It took 18 seven hours for special equipment to come up from 19 Houston to put that out. Seven hours. They didn't 20 know what to do. The fire department put the 21 flames out, but the methane and all of the VOCs 22 just came out for seven hours until that special 23 equipment came over. 24 We've also -- there's a gas well 25 that's 25 feet from a tennis court at one of our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 152 1 high schools. There's five gas wells right around 2 that high school. Parents don't even know they're 3 sending their kids there and there are all of these 4 dangers close by this high school in which children 5 who attend already have asthma or other breathing 6 conditions they need to know about. 7 I'm here today to request that the EPA 8 not only impose strong regulations on methane 9 emissions from new gas well production but stronger 10 regulations be put into place on existing 11 facilities, as well. This is an example of a 12 serious problem that is happening nationwide. The 13 EPA must step in where local protections have been 14 taken away, and they have been taken away in 15 Denton. 16 Denton was on the path to a clean, 17 sustainable future. We were doing everything we 18 could to clean our air, and we've come to the end 19 of our rope. We need your help. We need you to 20put in strong regulations to clean our air now. 21We've done our part. We have solar panels. We 22 have wind farms. It's not helping. It is not 23 helping. Now that the future is in question, we 24 really do need your help. Thank you very much. 25 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 153 1 testimony. Are there any questions from the panel? 2 (No response.) 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again. 4 At this time, I'd like to invite Lance 5 Irwin and Harriet Irby to please come forward for 6 testimony. 7 MR. COZAD: Did you also call David 8 Cozad? 9 MR. THOMPSON: No, sir. You're up 10 next after these two. 11 MR. IRWIN: Good afternoon. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 13 MR. IRWIN: My name is Lance Irwin. I 14 live in Mansfield, Texas. I have two children who 15 in the past have needed breathing treatments with 16Albuterol and Pulmicort. 17 When you see your child fighting to 18 breathe, you have a different perspective on what 19 clean air is. I live about a half mile from two 20 large pad sites and a compressor station. Leaks 21 and release of methane and other associated toxic 22 emissions are underestimated and underreported. 23 The rules that exist to reduce these emissions are 24 often ignored, and actually at times, with the help 25 of the TECQ, are systematically suppressed.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 154 1 Drillers came to our location to drill 2 60 wells and rework several old ones. This got bad 3 when they were doing well completions and were 4 supposed to be doing green completions to reduce 5 the emissions. Complaints that were made and 6 logged into TECQ often showed up later -- days 7 later after the air had cleared. It was clear that 8 they were venting emissions. At one point, 49 9 different complaints were bundled by TECQ. One 10person said things were making them sick. An 11 investigation report was returned to them showing 12 that there was nothing wrong, however TECQ ran a 13 concurrent and separate investigation that showed 14 they were violating green completion rules and 15venting emissions. 16 The operators received the violation, 17 but the people who were impacted were kept in the 18 dark and not shown this compliance investigation. 19 I discovered this through open records along with 20 their emissions. There was no fine, just asking 21 them to comply. It's cheaper to vent methane than 22 it is to flare it. My son's daycare was 900 feet 23 downwind during that violation, and TECQ did not 24 let the school know. 25 If operators are required to keep

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 155 1 records and receipts to show in an EPA audit that 2 green completions are being used, this type of 3 negligence can be minimized. Please make a 4 requirement to capture and burn off emissions of 5methane and other VOCs escaping from open hatches 6 on frac tanks during flowback. There is existing 7 technology that does this, but not widely used, 8 a/k/a gas buster flowback tanks. 9 Venting through fracking explodes blue 10 toxic foam into the air and was landing in our 11 neighbors' yards. No violation from TECQ or RRC. 12 The RRC investigated a separate foam report in the 13 adjacent school parking lot and never asked the 14 operator about the foam. They came up with the 15 theory that it could have been from mop water. 16 TECQ was given the MSDS sheet by the operator, and 17 the fire department asked the operator for the MSDS 18 sheet; and the material on the one -- on that one 19 was completely different and showed it caused 20 reproductive harm. 21 Require all emissions from compressors 22 to be captured and not vented -- and not vented and 23 only flared in emergency. I watched a blowdown 24with Sharon Wilson from Earthworks on her FLIR at a 25 location -- at our location while the EPA was in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 156 1 Arlington talking about that area. We were 2 watching smog-forming pollution being created in 3 the form of a massive methane cloud just a few 4miles away that day. With these substances blowing 5 across our neighborhood, TECQ investigated the 6 pathways and walked around the compressor. I know 7 it was from a blowdown. Why didn't they? 8 I looked up TECQ records and found 9 2013 compliance investigations, and in it, TECQ -- 10 TECQ asked for maintenance records of Texas Energy 11Midstream and they had none. TECQ asked them to 12 keep a tracking system to avoid the violation for 13 not keeping records, so when the incident occurred, 14 I asked for the records, and they were supposed -- 15 they were supposed to keep them. Texas Energy 16 Midstream told TECQ that they had none. I asked 17 for the tracking system and received a blank 18 spreadsheet. TECQ is okay with that, no violation. 19 Do you trust the self-reporting estimates on 20 compressor emissions or TECQ? 21 Audit these compressor stations for 22 required records and do actual studies of the 23 emissions, and you'll find out how far off those 24 estimates really are. Oil and gas in Texas doesn't 25work for the people, and it works and is controlled

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 157 1 in large part by the industry. Our representatives 2 on every level of government are lobbied and 3 controlled by the industry. HB 40 is a prime 4 example of how democracy is undermined in Texas. 5 TECQ assures industry front groups whose goal is to 6 forward and re-tweet each other on Twitter, a 7 cheerleading industry. 8 Our commissioners have no -- people 9 who oppose industry's bad practices are working 10 with the Russians. State regulators play a game of 11pretending to work for you. They do little to 12protect the environment, and they protect industry 13profits. The TECQ and RRC are taxpayer funded PR 14 firms for industry. Require large reductions in 15methane and proof of the implementation. By 16 default, we will be breathing less smog and other 17VOCs and toxins like benzene. The City of 18 Mansfield has seen fit to allow homes to be built 19 as close as 100 feet to wellheads and future 20 fracking sites and even closer to frac waste tanks. 21 You are the EPA. You have the 22 authority. Please do more to protect the air that 23 our kids breathe. The reports that I mentioned, 24 they're all on a disk. It's all categorized. You 25 can go back and look. I'm going to give it to the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 158 1 lady out in the hallway. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 3 MR. IRWIN: I'm so nervous. 4 MR. THOMPSON: Any questions? 5 MR. MOORE: No. That was very 6 interesting. 7 MR. LAWRENCE: It was. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for 9 your testimony. And again, I'd like to remind our 10 folks coming forward for testimony to pronounce and 11 spell your name for the court reporter, please, 12 before you begin your testimony. 13 MS. IRBY: Harriet Irby. The last 14name is I-r-b, as in boy, Y. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 16 MS. IRBY: A resident of Pantego, 17 Texas, which is a small town enveloped by 18Arlington; and I brought a couple of handouts. 19 Being an old schoolteacher, I brought handouts. I 20 couldn't help myself. The first part of my remarks 21 are called caught in the crossbow. And if you look 22 at this map, this is a map of Pantego. Pantego is 23 a little, and I thought, bucolic town. When I 24moved there in 1970, lots of trees, birds, a 25babbling brook, sweet air in the morning, all of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 159 1 that, a lovely suburban thing; and then the gas 2 drillers found us. Okay. 3 The little purple plug there is where 4 I live. No. 1 on the map is a gas well pad with 5multiple wells. No. 2 is a compression station, 6 which is located in another town, Del Rio Gardens, 7 which has even more lax regulations than Pantego 8 does. Number three is a complex of gathering lines 9 with an odorized gas, of course, that runs along 10 Pioneer Parkway. 11 Now, I am here representing 12 nontobacco-using COPD patients. I have severe 13 COPD. You are looking at the population that pays 14most of the costs of irresponsible gas drilling. 15 We're the ones that go to the hospital in ozone 16 season, and I can pretty well budget for my 17 hospitalization because I will be there with an 18 exacerbation of my COPD. 19 Arlington and the Arlington area also 20 has a child-who-has-asthma epidemic. The children 21pay the cost of COPD because asthma steals their 22 childhood. My second division of my remarks is, 23you are here proposing greater controls and 24 regulations to regulate methane leaks in the 25 natural gas production and oil production industry.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 160 1 This is really a problem. 2 Industry will tell you no, but other 3 agencies of far more repute will tell you that 4methane is a problem; and I have here a pamphlet or 5 an article, rather, "Fracking, methane and 6 climate," and it quotes the IPCC that says, 7 "methane is much worse for the climate than carbon 8 dioxide: 86 times worse over 20 years according to 9 the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change." 10 Well, who are these guys and how dare they Texas 11 that methane is bad news? 12 Well, I'll tell you who they are. 13 They are a United Nations agency founded in 1988, 14 and they have 195 countries as signatories. That's 15 an awful lot of agreement. Well, are they 16 reputable? Does the world like these people? 17 Well, in 2007, they won the Nobel Peace Prize. I 18 think the issue is settled. Methane is a problem. 19 Climate change is a problem. And I welcome the EPA 20 here to Dallas to attempt to get the rules passed 21 in order for us to successfully deal with it. I'm 22 so glad you're here. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Irby. 24Are there any questions? 25 MR. MOORE: No, but thank you very

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 161 1much. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for always 3 coming to the public hearings. I remember you. 4 Thank you very much. 5 At this time, I'd like to invite David 6 Cozad and Deborah -- I can't read the last name. 7 A-r- -- it's a vowel and a consonant. 8 MS. ARMINTOR: Armintor. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. And I'll 10 have you spell that for me. Thank you very much. 11 MR. COZAD: My name is David Cozad. 12 That's C-o-z-a-d or Charlie, Oscar, Zulu, Alpha, 13 Delta. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 15 MR. COZAD: Thank you for holding this 16 hearing. I'm David Cozad, Democratic candidate for 17 U.S. Congress Texas -6. The EIA and the U.S. 18 Department of Energy have determined that the oil 19 and gas industry is or will enter into peak 20production within five years. What that basically 21means is that most of our production right now will 22 not be closed in, it will not be cleaned up by 23 these industries because they're already going out 24 of business. 25 I have here an article from Bloomberg.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 162 1 It says as a title, "Plunge in Oil Prices Causes a 2 Junk Debt Bloodbath for Drillers." And basically, 3 several of them have already gone bankrupt from the 4April 18th reassessment, and they're facing another 5 one next month in which they're expecting 6 approximately 50 percent of these oil drillers to 7 go out of business by the end of the year. 8 I don't know how EPA is planning to 9 handle the resource destruction on their part, but 10 what this basically tells me is we're going to be 11 facing a major, major problem of cleaning up after 12 them unless you guys grab that money now. This 13means the regulation of the oil and gas industry 14must be strengthened in order to conserve as much 15 energy resources as possible until solar power is 16 sufficient to replace fossil fuels at 100 percent. 17 This is not a pipe dream. Germany has already run 18 a pilot program to do this, and they are now 19 starting the actual project to convert their system 20 to 100 percent renewable within ten years. 21 There is a team in Stanford who said 22 that we could do the same thing for the United 23 States by 2015. The problem is that, just as I 24 said, we've got problems with energy production, 25 such as this little report here from the University

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 163 1 of Texas team put out this deal, but basically it's 2 called the fracking fallacy. And what they did was 3 they restructured the sampling techniques of the 4 EIA on natural gas and the other fracking systems, 5 and basically said was, peak production for natural 6 gas at the latest is going to be 2020. 7 Now, the EIA has also put out a report 8 that says that oil production is going to hit 9 maximum starting around 2017 to possibly 2019. 10 What this basically means is you guys have got to 11 start upgrading your regulations from thinking this 12 thing is an ongoing concern for the next 100 years 13 to something that's going to happen within the next 14 five years. 15 Now, I only have issues with certain 16 other organizations within the government, but the 17 EPA, you've got a big problem ahead of you. You've 18 got to start regulating these guys so we do not 19 lose a single BTU of energy out of this system. No 20more of this being sloppy in production and 21 technology or just plain greedy. We've got to 22 clean the system up. We've got to make sure that 23 every drop and BTU of energy from methane is 24 captured and contained and is useful. 25 But right now, as several of these

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 164 1 little displays are showing, this stuff is being 2 dumped because it doesn't provide a profit big 3 enough. There's a Bloomberg report that shows a 4 satellite where they're showing how much flaring is 5 being done in the Bakkan. It is so big and so 6 bright it shows up on satellite, and what caught 7 his attention is when it first started, they 8 thought it was a missile launch. So you guys have 9 got a lot of work to do, and you don't have a whole 10 lot of time to do it, and if you need the help, 11when I get to Congress in January of 2017, I will 12 be there to support you in any way I can. 13 Final words, the needs of the many are 14 superior to the needs of the greedy. Thank you. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you 16 for your testimony. Are there any questions from 17 the panel? 18 MR. MOORE: No. 19 MR. COZAD: This has been entered into 20 the record? 21 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. Thank you. 22 MS. ARMINTOR: Hi. Should I start? 23 MR. THOMPSON: Please. 24 MR. ARMINTOR: My name is Deborah 25Armintor. It's spelled D-e-b-o-r-a-h, and the last

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 165 1 name is A-r-m-i-n-t-o-r. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 3 MS. ARMINTOR: I'm a 42-year-old 4 resident of Denton, Texas. I'm a mother and an 5 English professor at the University of North Texas. 6 Minutes ago, two other Denton residents, Ed and 7 Carol Soph spoke eloquently about our F-rated air 8 quality in Denton, so I'm not going to repeat what 9 they have said so well. 10 I want to thank the EPA and express my 11 gratitude to you for the new proposed rules 12 regarding reducing methane emissions from 13providers. Thank you for that. We need that and 14 are grateful, but that is not all that I came here 15 to say. I happen to be Jewish, and I've just 16 arrived here in Dallas from Yom Kippur services at 17my temple and congregation -- it's Congregation 18 Kol Ami in Flower Mound. Yom Kippur is the Jewish 19 day of atonement, and if you haven't heard from any 20 Jews at today's hearing that's because we're 21 supposed to be at our synagogue confessing 22 collectively and publicly that we have missed the 23mark in our individual and collective ethical and 24 group responsibilities -- in our individual and 25 collective duties as ethical and responsible global

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 166 1 citizens in the past year and in the year ahead. 2 And, in fact, I'm not supposed to be 3 here right now. I should be back at the temple, 4 but I worked it out with God, and God says it's 5 okay for me to be here. The fact that EPA has 6 drafted these new rules shows that you understand 7 that our nation has been missing the mark regarding 8 the regulation of pollution by our oil and gas 9 industry. Here in Texas, we have really, really 10missed the mark, and we need your help. 11 HB 40, which you were not responsible 12 for but you're probably aware of, is the new 13 statewide law that limits Texas cities from 14protecting our own citizens and environment from 15 fracking. It denies the home rule municipalities 16 like Denton, Texas, where I live, from our right to 17 local control, and if you've read this law, if you 18 read the preamble, it begins by stating that Texas 19 has not missed the marked at all regarding 20 regulating oil and gas and emissions. In fact, it 21boasts that -- this law boasts that Texas is right 22 on target which is why, according to HB 40, we 23 don't need any further regulations because we're 24doing so well. 25 Texas, as you probably know, accounts

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 167 1 for roughly 30 percent of all oil and gas 2 production in the United States, which means it's a 3 significant amount of -- 7 million tons of methane 4pollution that is vented, flared, leaked, and 5 otherwise emitted from oil and gas operations in 6 Texas, many of these are in North Texas. 7 Our state regulators and legislative 8 leadership are not adequately regulating oil and 9 gas pollution and have specifically refused to 10 regulate methane. They don't have any requirements 11 for leak detection and repair programs for oil and 12 gas facilities. They've expanded the use of 13permits to allow extended flaring. Now, I realize 14 that you're not responsible for this, but this is 15why we in Texas are depending on you. We're 16 counting on you, and if you've seen Star Wars, I 17 feel like Princess Leia saying, you know, help us 18 Obi-Wan. You're our only hope. EPA, you are Texas 19 only hope in protecting our people and our 20 environment from industry pollution. Our state 21 legislature is not going to do it for us. 22 I have a couple of asks in addition to 23 just asking you to keep doing what you're doing in 24protecting us. One, please apply these new rules 25 to existing oil and gas infrastructure, which in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 168 1 Denton, North Texas, and Texas, and the nation as a 2 whole, especially in Texas, are a far bigger 3 problem than any planned or hypothetical new oil 4 and gas sites especially in the case of refracking. 5 I also want to ask you to close the 6 aggregation loophole that allows multiple oil and 7 gas companies to put thousands of pieces of small 8 equipment that produce huge emissions into a single 9 facility without being regulated under the Clean 10Air Act. Right now, the law is unclear about 11whether all of this equipment should be treated as 12 a single large source or -- or whether each piece 13 itself is a minor source. I believe they should 14 all be considered a single source and regulated 15 accordingly. Thank you. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 17 testimony. Thank you for being here today. Before 18you go, any questions? 19 MR. MOORE: The last comment, your 20 second one about the multiple sources? 21 MS. ARMINTOR: Yes? 22 MR. MOORE: That pertains to the 23 source rule -- 24 MS. ARMINTOR: Yes. I understand that 25 that's not part of this current.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 169 1 MR. MOORE: No. No, it is. 2 MS. ARMINTOR: Yeah. Okay. 3 MR. MOORE: Not this rule, but the 4part -- 5 MS. ARMINTOR: Exactly. Exactly. I 6 understand. Yes. Thank you. 7 MR. MOORE: I was just clarifying. 8 MR. LAWRENCE: I apologize for the 9 scheduling issue. Several people have brought it 10 up. Our meeting got moved. It just happened to 11 fall on Yom Kippur. 12 MS. ARMINTOR: Okay. God forgives 13you. Thank you. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 15 testimony. At this time, I'd like to invite Mahdi 16Ahmadi to please come forward, please, and Helen 17 Bush. 18 Are you all set? If you can just 19 state your full name and spell it for the 20 court reporter and please begin your testimony 21 afterwards, sir. 22 MR. AHMADI: My name is Mahdi Ahmadi. 23 I'm a double major at the University of North Texas 24 living in Denton and doing philosophy and 25mechanical engineering at the graduate level, so

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 170 1 I'm here today to support EPA's proposed rule to 2 cut methane and other volatile organic compounds 3 a/k/a VOCs, from oil and gas facilities. I draw on 4my research at the University of North Texas which 5 is focused on the local air quality and effects of 6 shale oil and gas activity in the Dallas-Fort Worth 7 area. 8 So there are several -- several 9 research showing the emerging effects on exposure 10 to oil and gas VOC emissions on adults, children, 11 and fetuses, which is important. It's not my area 12 of expertise. My research is focused on the 13 secondary local impact of VOCs, and that's 14 ground-level ozone or smog. 15 In recently published peer-reviewed 16 research, me and Dr. Kuruvilla, my supervisor, we 17 studied the ozone trends in the D/FW Metroplex by 18 comparing daily peak with the significant number of 19 gas and oil wells and comparing that to the eastern 20 side of the D/FW area that doesn't have that many 21 number of oil and gas wells. And as you may know, 22 ozone is an emission which contains methane gas, as 23 well, so we -- we applied those factors to the 24 statistical methods and we removed meteorological 25 impacts from the ozone trends and we looked at the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 171 1meteorological ozone or we can kind of call it 2 man-mandate ozone, and, you know, there's a 3 difference between shale gas regions and nonshale 4 gas regions. 5 There's an increase in ozone -- in 6 meteorological ozone after 2009 in the western side 7 of the Metroplex, so which can be explained in 8 terms of VOCs emitted from oil and gas wells. This 9 table is really small, but this table is showing 10 the really disappointing history of the ozone 11 attainment of the D/FW area. 12 And given this, I recommend that the 13 state need to go beyond the traditional approach to 14 control -- to control ozone, and they need to adopt 15 new and -- new and more strict controls on the oil 16 and gas industry and facilities because the effect 17 is very local, and it can be smoothed out if you 18 only consider average numbers in a large area like 19 D/FW. 20 And this is another graph showing the 21 comparison between VOC trends in Dallas versus 22 Denton. The blue one is Dallas since 2000 to 2014, 23 and the red one is Denton. And considering the 24number of people living in these two cities and the 25 traffic load, it's really -- I mean, the difference

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 172 1 is really significant and kind of shocking. 2 And I broke down the graph into more 3 graphs showing the average VOC trend and also the 4maximum and 19th percentile trends, so on the left 5 side is the median and -- and mean value trends, 6 Dallas and Denton. On the right side is the 7 19th percentile and the maximum value trends. Both 8 show there's a huge gap between Dallas and Denton, 9 and so why the median and mean value are important 10 for ozone formation, the maximum and 11 19th percentile are really important for acute 12 exposure and adverse health impact on exposure, so 13 it is important for all of us to look at both the 14 synoptic impact of oil and gas and also long-term 15 impacts of those sources on VOCs. And this is an 16 ongoing research that I'm going to show. 17 The relationship between oil and gas 18wells in the area which is the map on the left side 19 is showing the number of wells in the census tract 20 in the area versus the -- the number of households 21with incomes under $20,000 per year, which is kind 22 of showing there are people -- the people who are 23 very likely to -- to bear the burden of air 24pollution are also likely to be from families with 25 lower income and also from a family without health

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 173 1 insurance. 2 The left -- the right map is showing 3 the number of uninsured people in the census tract, 4 so in conclusion, this is why we should support the 5 new EPA proposal because VOCs do not automatically 6 go down. There must strict control on fugitive and 7 vented VOCs and methane and in all stages of oil 8 and gas development including production and 9 existing. 10 Also, I would also like to point out 11 that the VOC situation that we have in Denton and 12 like cities is from the existing infrastructure, 13 not from the future infrastructure and facilities. 14 So that's why we also need the same control on the 15 existing facilities and infrastructure especially 16 in the cities like, you know, Denton, which is 17populated with oil and gas. And we also need more 18monitoring stations like more stationary and mobile 19monitoring -- monitoring stations to -- to measure 20 and evaluate the situation in the area. Thank you. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Do you have any questions? 23 (No response.) 24 MR. THOMPSON: Are you going to submit 25your findings here to the folks out front?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 174 1 MR. AHMADI: Of course, and the part 2 of it on the ozone trend is also published. It's 3 not accessible for the public, but -- you have to 4pay; but I will submit this to you. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Ahmadi. 6 Thank you for your testimony. 7 Helen Bush. Good afternoon. 8 MS. BUSH: Good afternoon. Thank you 9 for having this hearing. I'm pleased to be here. 10 I appreciate your listening to the speeches because 11 I listen to them, too, and I learn and add to my 12 knowledge of protecting the environment and 13promoting conservation. I'm very conservative 14 about these subjects, and I know people surrounding 15me do the best they can, so my compromise is not 16 really acceptable because to me, it's going 17 backwards all of the time. 18 So I am here to tell you my point of 19 view, my persuasion, and I am here to admonish you. 20 I'm here to persuade you. I'm here to support the 21 strongest standards that you propose and for you to 22 hold the oil and gas petroleum industry to the 23 strictest rules that you are proposing and keep 24 considering any further improvements of these rules 25 and regulations.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 175 1 I have been studying methane and CO2 2 from the Internet, and I find information every 3 day. I watch newsletters from the scientists for 4 biodiversity, the union of concerned scientists, 5 the Pope Francis visit on climate change. He's 6 been preaching this lately in June with his edict 7 that's so famous now and so needed by the whole 8 world. I've been watching the UN, and I've watched 9 people criticize the UN. And only in December of 10 2014 they had yet another world summit in Lima, 11 Peru, on climate change, and we can still remember 12 the Copenhagen Summit in Denmark recently. 13 I do believe climate change is 14 occurring. I do believe I'm watching it, and I do 15believe that what I'm studying in fracking, oil and 16 gas, coal emissions, actually industrialization, 17 agriculture, changes in the land, are really 18 contributing to climate change while I'm watching 19 it. I've been studying this since 2009, and I was 20 only a dilettante before that, watching what was 21 talked in the news about environment and science, 22 and so I think -- I think I'm here -- at D/FW, I've 23 watched severe drought, I've watched unusual 24 rainstorms of 12 inches in two hours. I was out in 25 it in my car watching floods in my area, which I'm

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 176 1 not going to tell you where it was. I was driving 2 through it and stopping driving because you have to 3 stop driving because your car won't go through. 4 I've seen 12-inch rainstorms twice just in the last 5 20 years, so I think I have seen climate change 6 right here in Dallas. 7 I've seen air visibility questions 8 which is a new word for smog. I've seen air 9 pollution reports that tell us to stay inside. 10 I've seen long summers of days over 100, and I'm 11 reminding you that small changes have to be made in 12 each country, in each area of people contributing 13 what they can do, and oil and gas petroleum fossil 14 fuels need to be regulated and limited if possible 15 and I say that our community has to be proactive, 16 too, in the sustainability suggestions which are on 17 the Internet. 18 So I'm going to add one fact to all of 19 these technical speeches I've been listening to. I 20 looked at a National Geographic poster in a 21 classroom about Friday, and it was fascinating 22 explanation of global warming and climate change, 23 and it was undeniable from National Geographic. 24 The first fact I learned, and I was reminded of, 25 nitrogen is 78 percent of our atmosphere. Oxygen

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 177 1 is 21 percent of our atmosphere, and other gases 2 are one percent of our atmosphere. That means that 3 CO2, the VOCs, the methane, the greenhouse gases 4 are all going into that one percent, which is the 5 factor which changes of greenhouse gas and affects 6 our climate and our communities and our environment 7 and our -- our good air. Thank you for listening. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 9 testimony, Mrs. Bush. Before you leave us, let me 10 just ask the panel if they have any follow-up 11 questions. 12 MR. MOORE: No. 13 MR. LAWRENCE: No. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 15 At this time, I'd like to invite Kaiba 16 White and Gene Collins, please come forward. And 17 if you will, pronounce and spell your name for the 18 court reporter and then begin your testimony. Good 19 afternoon. 20 MS. WHITE: Yes, sir. Good afternoon. 21My name is Kaiba White, and I'm here on behalf of 22 and as a public citizen. My name is spelled 23 K-a-i-b-a. 24 We applaud the EPA for taking this 25 important first step of proposing rules to curb

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 178 1methane emissions from the oil and gas sector. 2 Methane is a dangerous greenhouse gas that has 87 3 times more impact on the climate per ton emitted 4 over a 20-year time frame compared to carbon 5 dioxide. In this short 20-year timeframe and even 6 much shorter time frame of five to ten years will 7 be critical to decrease greenhouse gas emissions 8 because, climate change is already happening and 9 because according to scientific research that's 10 come out recently, it is happening much quicker 11 than we previously thought. 12 Positive feedback loops such as the 13melting of Arctic ice are threatening to take the 14 earth into a range that is very dangerous for 15humans and other lower lives as well. Rapidly 16 reducing greenhouse gas emissions is necessary to 17 avoid the most costly consequence of climate 18 change, and these consequences are already started. 19 Studies have known that up to 20 12 percent of methane is leaking in some areas 21where oil and gas development is taking place. 22 Even at a more conservative average of three 23percent as some studies have suggested is leaking, 24 the impact on the climate is still devastating. 25 The reason we are disappointed in the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 179 1 proposed rules for new oil and gas infrastructure 2 is they are not accompanied by similar rules for 3 existing infrastructure. Hundreds of thousands of 4 wells are not controlled and are also accompanied 5 by gathering lines, storage tanks, compressor 6 processing stations, pipelines. Much of this 7 construction will be in place for many years. 8 The vast majority of the methane 9 emissions of the infrastructure is going to come 10 from the existing -- from existing structures for 11years to come. In 2018, we can expect about 12 90 percent of emissions will come from 13 infrastructure that already exists now. This is a 14 serious problem. There isn't time to wait to 15 develop those rules for existing infrastructure 16 until after the rules for the infrastructure have 17 been adopted. We need to stop this process 18 immediately, and we urge you to do so now. 19 In addition to the important climate 20protection benefits that this proposed rule and 21 should any other rules to limit methane emissions 22 from existing infrastructure will hopefully be 23 forthcoming, there is also a considerable benefit 24 to the local air quality. This will be a much 25 needed improvement since the Texas Railroad

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 180 1 Commission which is tasked with regulating the oil 2 and gas structures and the Texas Commission on 3 Environmental Quality have done a woefully 4 inadequate job of protecting Texas residents from 5 the environmental damage of hydraulic fracturing. 6 I'm sure you've heard a lot of this testimony 7 today. 8 In addition to the water pollution, 9 residents that live near oil and gas walls and 10processing facilities are subjected to dangerous 11 air pollution including carcinogens such as 12 benzene. Studies have shown in some areas there's 13 already a correlation between oil and gas 14development and low birth weight and other birth 15 defects including serious conditions like heart 16 defects. These impacts on health are unacceptable. 17 Regional air quality is also suffering. 18 Thanks to the volatile organic 19 compounds that are emitted from oil and gas 20 activity, San Antonio and the Dallas-Fort Worth 21 area are going to have an even more difficult time 22 complying with health-based EPA standards. 23Vulnerable populations such as the elderly and 24 children will continue to suffer respiratory 25 conditions especially asthma if the situation isn't

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 181 1 rectified. 2 Sealing leaks of petroleum equipment 3 that are dangerous to local residents as well as 4 the environment. The proposed rule should be 5 strengthened to include each and every piece of 6 equipment used in oil and gas extraction, 7 processing, and transportation. Compressors and 8 storage vessels should be fully incorporated into 9 the rules as well as any other -- anything they may 10 have will inadvertently be left out. 11 Finally, these rules and any future 12proposed rules for leaks and existing 13 infrastructure will only achieve their intended 14 impact if there are mandatory inspections. 15 Enforcement of existing environmental standards is 16 extremely weak in Texas, and we cannot expect any 17 better if routine inspections are not required. 18 We're excited that these rules have 19 been proposed and hope they will be quickly 20 expanded and improved upon in the future. Thank 21you for your time. 22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 23 testimony. Are there any questions from the panel? 24 (No response.) 25 MR. MOORE: Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 182 1 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, 2 Mr. Collins. 3 MR. COLLINS: Good afternoon. My name 4 is Gene Collins. I live in Odessa, Texas. That's 5 in West Texas, the center of the Permian Basis 6 where the nation's crude oil is mostly located. 7 West Texas crude comes from that area. I've owned 8 a business for 30 years. I'm a senior pastor at 9 the Highland Street Church of Christ. I am a 10member of the NAACP where I serve as branch 11president, the West Texas area coordinator, and 12 chairman of the environmental justice committee of 13 the state of Texas. I also led the NAACP disaster 14 relief team for the whole country, and I serve as 15part of the national leadership team of the 16American Red Cross. I'm mentioning all of these 17 areas of commitment that I've accepted because even 18with their uniqueness, they also intersect at the 19 junction of environmental justice. 20 I'm here today to applaud and support 21 the EPA's initiative in developing the Climate 22Action Plan, a methane strategy, the New Source 23 Performance Standards that are being recommended 24 today. I further applaud the EPA for the work 25you've done including the necessary research.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 183 1 We've heard a lot about it today, and the formation 2 of scientific conclusions regarding the harm that 3 these gases have done and will continue to do to 4 our environment and our health. We certainly have 5 a moral obligation to protect this land in which we 6 live and the lives that are so precious to us. 7 I've read through a lot of the 500 or 8 so pages, and I understand the proposal. I know 9 that there is an effort also to clean up some 10 things that were left out of the last efforts; but 11 I'm so glad that the EPA has reconsidered and now 12 has decided to include it in this proposal. But I 13 have one suggestion that I want to offer as an 14 environmental activist living in the state of 15 Texas, a state which has tried to hinder 16 community-based organizations from being able to 17work with and represent individuals and communities 18 that may have no resources or education to protect 19 itself. 20 This is a state that requires those 21who wish to assist vulnerable populations to pass a 22 standing test based on some very narrow definitions 23 which exclude so many of us from the process. It's 24 a state that so often uses the state regulatory 25 agencies as boot camps for industry, environmental

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 184 1 safety, and engineers. But I live in Texas anyway. 2 On pages 35 and 36 of the proposal, it 3 states that the EPA's intention to have the 4 industry take voluntary actions to address the 5 problems of methane emissions is somewhat troubling 6 to me as an environmentalist because I have seen 7 how in Texas they do everything they can possibly 8 do to circumvent those types of responsibilities. 9 I believe we should have incentives for business, 10 but I also believe that we should have strong 11 enforcement and fines; and I believe that a lot of 12 these fines when they are not in compliance should 13 be filtered to the communities and to the 14 community-based organizations that are trying to do 15 the policing locally that the EPA cannot do. 16 I've heard a lot about the various 17monitors and I think we need more of them, but I 18 think we need to have them in the hands of people 19 in the communities who have a vested interest in 20 their own health. There are monitors that we can 21 give to young people that can -- that can tell what 22 has triggered their asthma. Whenever they get 23 asthma, they can take an air sample and decide, and 24 I think we should use whatever we can to find out 25 these sources and deal with them.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 185 1 I believe that we need to do all we 2 can to circumvent and control climate change in 3 this country. They have a more severe impact on 4 children, the elderly, the poor, and those who 5 cannot fend for themselves. So I, on behalf of the 6 NAACP, stand in support of what you're doing, but I 7 certainly would like to see it expanded to include 8 the initiative of people who care for and love 9 their community, love their children and their 10 grandchildren by empowering us to do even more in 11 this effort. Thank you very much. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Collins. 13 (Applause was heard.) 14 MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions 15 from the panel? 16 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you very much. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 18 MR. COLLINS: Thank you. 19 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like 20 to invite Loni Russell and Will Edwards to please 21 come forward. Good afternoon. 22 MS. RUSSELL: Good afternoon. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Please state and spell 24your name for the court reporter and proceed with 25your testimony.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 186 1 MS. RUSSELL: Loni Russell, L-o-n-i, 2 R-u-s-s-e-l-l. I'm Loni Russell, and I'm here 3 today as a concerned citizen, a daughter, and an 4 aunt. I'm a member and a community organizer for 5 Moms Clean Air Force in the western states, a 6 community of over 550,000 members fighting for 7 clean air, 323,000 of which reside right here in 8 Texas. On behalf of our members, I want to thank 9 you for the opportunity to testify today about 10 addressing methane pollution from oil and gas 11 operations. 12 I thank you for taking this important 13 first step in addressing methane pollution and 14 respectfully request that you move forward with 15 this proposal while extending the program to cover 16 existing facilities. The scientific record and the 17public health co-benefits demonstrate that cutting 18methane pollution will provide stronger protections 19 for Americans and most importantly for our 20 children. Our families and communities need strong 21 national standards to reduce pollution from the oil 22 and gas industry. 23 I currently reside in California, and 24 I'm no stranger to poor air quality growing up in 25 the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles where my

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 187 1 family still resides. Many of my family relatives 2 suffer from asthma. Copollutants that leak, along 3 with methane, lead to ozone formation which is 4 damaging to health. Exposure to ground-level ozone 5 or smog is associated with numerous health effects 6 such as premature death, asthma attacks, 7 hospitalizations, and chronic respiratory damage. 8 Numerous studies have found elevated 9 ozone pollution in regions of oil and gas 10 development largely due to emissions of VOCs and 11 nitrogen oxide from these activities. Nearly one 12 in every ten schoolchildren in the U.S. have 13 asthma, asthma being the number one health issue 14 that causes kids to miss school. One of those 15 little ones is my three-year-old nephew, Adrian. 16 He lives in Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley 17 in an area of some of the smoggiest air in the 18 country. 19 As we know, smog pollution triggers 20 hundreds and thousands of episodes of asthma and 21 respiratory ailments each year. It sends thousands 22 of children to emergency rooms and costs of bills 23 in healthcare costs, lost productivity, and 24premature death. My state of California is 25 currently burning from extreme fires fueled by

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 188 1 extreme drought engulfing our state. Fire, smoke, 2 and particulate matter triggering emergency room 3 visits for Californians in affected areas. 4 Children suffer the most. These massive fires in 5 the west are not just affecting those most 6 vulnerable. They're affecting those adults and 7 children with the most healthy of lungs. These 8 devastating disasters will only increase across the 9 west with climate change. 10 In my role as a community organizer, 11 I've met with families all across the west who are 12 impacted by air pollution from oil and gas 13 operations, operations near schools and playgrounds 14 and homes. Standards that reduce methane emissions 15 from oil and gas development will simultaneously 16 reduce emission and formation of health-damaging 17 air pollutants including VOCs, hazardous 18pollutants, particulate matter, and ozone. 19 A large body of scientific research 20 indicates that oil and gas development is 21 associated with adverse health impacts. Higher 22 reported health symptoms from persons, greater 23prevalence of adverse birth outcomes including 24 congenital heart defects, neural tube defects, and 25 low birth weight for infants born to mothers who

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 189 1 live in high densities of natural gas development, 2 increased hospitalization rates. Today, the public 3 bears the burden of methane pollution by 4 contributing to climate change and contributing to 5 the formation of smog. A tighter standard would 6 hold these industries accountable for the 7 pollution. Let's keep children safe with the 8 strongest standards that helps millions of children 9 with asthma and other respiratory ailments breathe 10 easier. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. 11 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 12 testimony, Ms. Russell. Are there any questions 13 from the panel? 14 (No response.) 15 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you again. 16 Mr. Edwards, please. 17 MR. EDWARDS: Good afternoon. How are 18y'all doing today? 19 MR. THOMPSON: Doing great. 20 MR. EDWARDS: I'm just an average 21 citizen. I live right over there off of Turtle 22 Creek in Residence Towers. Councilman Kingston's 23 district right there behind you there, and to be 24honest, the problems with the ozone and the gases 25have been going on since -- well, since they

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 190 1 started fracking. My family owns land that was 2 given to us by President Wilson as a land packet in 3 southeastern Colorado, and the one spectacular part 4 of that land is that absolutely nothing grows on 5 it. It's completely 100 percent dead. Animals who 6 have tried to traverse the land usually die before 7 they get to the other side. That's pretty 8 horrible, but that's the result of fracking. 9 And another result is my lung here is 10 dying. Okay? And the doctors tell me when it 11 quits, I won't be able to breathe, and I guess you 12 can understand what the consequence of that will 13 be. The reality of the situation is, well, it is 14 admirable that y'all are coming up with some 15 regulations that will almost cover the problem. 16 The problem has been going on since long before 17your organization ever existed, and the lack of my 18 government to care for the welfare of its people, 19me, just one, has pretty much murdered me, and I 20 think there's no excuse -- no excuse for not having 21 already done this, and it needs to be done and it 22 needs to be done with reasonable effect. 23 You need to put these regulations 24placed on all of these wells, on all of these 25 outputs, not just some of the new ones. You need

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 191 1 to actually be effective and protect the people of 2 this country because I, for one, am dying from it, 3 and I'm not happy about that especially since it 4 was all done to save a few pennies per cubic yard 5 of natural gas because they sure don't put those 6 savings on to us. The love of money is the root of 7 all evil under the sun, and that's Biblical. 8 I don't know -- you know, most 9 scientists, they kind of realize that there's not 10 too much, you know, relation between the scientific 11point of view and faith in God or anything else, 12 but to allow greedy unscrupulous people to 13 constantly poor poison into the area where the low 14 income people are forced to live because they can't 15make enough money to live in a gated community, 16 it's killing them. 17 It's poisoning them, and there's no 18 reason for it except greed and failure, absolute 19 failure, to stand up for the rights of everyone not 20 just the Koch brothers, not just Dick Cheney, just 21 not DuPont Chemical or the oil companies, but us, 22 the people. We're here for more than just to clean 23 out your toilets and wipe up your vomit. We're 24here to live, and personally, you've -- they've 25murdered me. I'm the walking dead. Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 192 1 I'm done. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 3 testimony, sir. Before you go, are there any 4 questions? 5 MR. MOORE: No, but thank you so much 6 for your testimony. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again. Okay. 8 At this time, I'd like to invite Neil Carman and 9 Gunnar Schade to please come forth for testimony. 10 MR. CARMAN: My name is Neil Carman, 11N-e-i-l, C-a-r-m-a-n, and I am with Sierra Club, 12 and I strongly endorse these rules although I think 13 they should be a lot tougher because existing 14 sources are being completely, you know, left out of 15 these rules. 16 I do want to share a personal 17 experience with family members down in the Eagle 18 Ford Shale just a year ago. And my niece who has 19 four little children under the age of eight, two of 20 them she adopted, but anyway, they lift next to one 21 of these fracking facilities, and I was down there 22 for a celebration, and it was a Saturday evening, 23 and I could look off and I could see a flare. 24 I couldn't smell anything, but I could 25 see that the small amount of smoke and, you know,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 193 1 emissions were drifting, you know, probably it was 2 about a quarter of a mile, maybe a little further. 3 And I didn't notice anything for a while, but then 4 I began to talk to my wife, I said, are you -- you 5 aren't drinking any alcohol, we don't smoke, and we 6 live in Austin, and we feel healthy there; but 7 anyway, so we noticed we began to not feel very 8 good. 9 We were outside, and there were a lot 10 of people there, and several other people 11 noticed -- made some comments that they weren't 12 feeling that good although a lot of other people 13 were drinking alcohol. Anyway, my concern here is 14my niece has four little children, and so I want to 15make some comments about why these rules need to be 16 tougher to protect our children. 17 Children are the most vulnerable to 18 the effects of methane and the related volatile 19 organic compounds -- compounds and hazardous air 20pollutants. Children breathe more rapidly than 21 adults, taking in significantly more air pollution 22per body weight than do adults. A resting infant, 23 for example, inhales twice as much air relative to 24 its size as does a resting adult. Two, children 25 spend more time outdoors. National data show that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 194 1 children spend an average of about 50 percent more 2 time outdoors than adults, so they're taking in 3 more air pollution by playing outside. 4 Another point, children are more 5 active while they're playing outside because 6 they're mouth-breathers and they're exercising, so 7 they spend three times as much time engaged in 8 sports and other vigorous activities. Increased 9 activity raises their breathing rates, and they 10 take in more air pollution significantly. 11 Children's airwaves are more narrow than those of 12 adults because they're not as developed, thus 13 enhancing the inflammatory effect of the air 14pollution from the fracking activity. Children are 15prone to mouth-breathing which significantly 16 increases the dose of pollution, especially 17particulates reaching the lungs. 18 In adults, respiratory symptoms such 19 as coughing and shortness of breath serve as a 20 signal to air pollution exposure and warn us to 21move indoors or curtail exercise. Children often 22 fail to exhibit these symptoms because they want to 23 keep playing outside, so that makes them less 24 likely to reduce their exposure such as stopping 25 exercise or going inside. Children are closest to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 195 1 the ground where air pollution is generally a 2 little bit more concentrated. 3 Children are also particularly 4 vulnerable to toxic substances -- the carcinogens, 5 the teratogens, the mutagens -- because their 6 bodies are immature, and they're rapidly growing so 7 their DNA is much more vulnerable to damage from 8 these carcinogens, mutagens, and so forth, such as 9 benzene and other, you know, related compounds 10 aromatics. 11 Children do not have a fully developed 12 immune system, a liver or kidneys to help protect 13 them from the damaging effects of many of these 14 chemicals. Immature lungs are unable to remove or 15 neutralize toxic contaminants adequately and 16 developing brains and neural pathways are 17particularly vulnerable. In addition, some 18 chemicals affecting the endocrine system are 19potentially disturbing their neural reproductive 20 and immune development. 21 Airborne carcinogens and mutagens, 22 chemicals such as benzene and related aromatics 23potentially disturb their neural reproductive and 24 immune development. They have a much greater 25 effect on children possibly because rapidly growing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 196 1 tissues are less differentiated and more 2 susceptible than mature tissues in adults. 3 Children exposed to carcinogens like 4 benzene have a longer exposed expected lifespan 5 over which carcinogenic action may occur. Children 6 of parents exposed to toxic chemicals appear to 7 have a higher incidence of cancer possibly because 8 they inherit damaged genetic material. They get 9 damaged DNA from the parents. Additional exposure 10may then precipitate malignancy in these 11 genetically susceptible children. And finally, 12 I'll just add, fetuses are exposed during gestation 13 to environmental pollution that is stored in the 14mother's body, especially these women living in 15 this Eagle Ford Shale area and -- and these other 16 fracking areas in Texas. 17 Newborns are further exposed to 18 environmental pollution excreted in the mother's 19 breast milk. Children of mothers with higher 20 levels of environmental pollution in their bodies 21 display an increased incident of developmental and 22 other adverse health effects, so this rule needs to 23 be made stronger to protect the children -- the 24 thousands of children in Texas that live with their 25 families in these areas, and so I urge you to make

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 197 1 the rules stronger and not to weaken them. Thank 2 you. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Collins. 4Are there any questions from the panel? 5 (No response.) 6 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for 7 your testimony. 8 Why don't we do this. Since we'd like 9 you to provide whatever you want to show us, let me 10 ask, if you don't mind, Priscilla to come forward 11 and then meanwhile we can get somebody to work out 12 the technical issues and we'll have time to get you 13 squared away. 14 MR. MOORE: We've got someone coming. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. Could 16you spell and pronounce your name for the court 17 reporter and then begin with your testimony. 18 MS. VILLA: Spell it out? 19 MR. THOMPSON: Please, for the court 20 reporter. 21 MS. VILLA: My name is Priscilla 22Villa, P-r-i-s-c-i-l-l-a, last name, V-i-l-l-a, and 23 I'm a graduate student at the University of North 24 Texas and currently a Master's Candidate in Applied 25Anthropology, and my research has been

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 198 1 understanding health risks in Karnes County 2 particularly about the Eagle Ford Shale here in 3 Texas. 4 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 5 MS. VILLA: I appreciate the EPA 6 taking the important first steps in cutting methane 7 emissions from oil and gas facilities. Since we've 8 already learned how important it is to reduce 9 climate change, I'm here to speak about how 10 critical this rule is to people's health. As a 11 graduate student in conducting research and 12 spending the summer in Karnes County, it allowed me 13 the opportunity to meet with community members and 14 to speak to them about their health. 15 Residents have not only witnessed and 16 experienced changes in the environment, but have 17 recognized and experienced changes within 18 themselves. Residents are eager to tell their 19 stories and struggles with their health they know 20 have been caused by the oil and gas emissions. 21 Since they're not able to be here today, I would 22 like to speak on their behalf and urge you, as they 23 have urged me, to listen to their concerns and do 24 something that will improve their poor air quality 25 and their poor quality of life by -- by these

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 199 1 standards. 2 The patterns and the data so far shows 3 a variety in health symptoms and a distinct 4 timeline upon which these health issues have 5 appeared. If residents have already experienced 6 these declining health issues over the past five 7 years, I can imagine what they're going to be in 8 the next 10 to 20 years. The longer that we wait 9 for more air testing to occur, the longer that 10 residents are exposed to harmful pollutants. I 11 emphasize the importance of local knowledge and 12 consideration of policies that mostly affect the 13 areas like Karnes County. 14 As one resident states, I'm having 15 respiratory issues, and before, I didn't have those 16 at all. I think my issues are with the dust around 17 here. I'm asthmatic but also my ears get plugged 18 because of the congestion. It's in our lungs and 19 our pastures. Our horses have respiratory 20problems, too. We smell that putrid smell. We 21 catch a whiff of it. You can't stay outside. It 22makes my wife, me, and son feel nauseous. It's 23 almost like a raw egg smell. You can smell it 24daily. There's threats and letters I get from the 25 industry, but nothing ever happens or comes from

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 200 1 it. What are we breathing? Not knowing really 2 bothers me he says. It's not just fracking. It's 3 production. Fracking goes away but wells are here 4 for years. In the past five years, the air quality 5 has really gone downhill. 6 Upon my first trip to Karnes County, 7 it brought me to the public library whereupon five 8 minutes of standing in the lobby I heard a resident 9 complaint about persistent headaches and allergies. 10 During my visit to the local hospital, a resident 11 said that he brought in his mother to the ER for 12 the same thing, and this went on and on. Another 13 resident explained, she says, especially if I go 14 outside, it feels like I took a sleeping pill. 15 It's gotten worse. I'm also afraid I'm going to 16 get leukemia from all of this. We have bad air 17 quality, and I can smell this stuff but also the 18way it makes me feel. Everyone needs to be aware 19 of this before anything can get done, that's why 20 I'm talking to you. 21 Even residents who aren't sure about 22 the relationship between poor air quality and 23 health have realized the possibility. As residents 24who tell me about their constant burning in the 25 nose and coughing and scratchy throats, she says,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 201 1 I'm not going to swear that has to do with oil 2 wells, but it's just weird stuff that won't go 3 away, and it shouldn't be going on this long. 4 Another couple I spoke with feels the 5 same. In reference to her husband, she says, he's 6 got numbness in both of his hands, and he gets 7 dizzy when he bends over and has to stop whatever 8 he is doing. He used to be able to stay up all day 9 and do things outside. Now he has to come in and 10 take a lot of breaks. He does not attribute any of 11 this to the environment, but I'm going to -- but 12 I'm not going to attribute mine to age, she says. 13 Something is going on to -- something is going on 14 that makes you pass out, dizzy, or nauseous. 15 Something is causing it. Five years ago, I was the 16 spitting image of health. Prior to the oil 17 industry coming here, I would have one migraine 18maybe other week, and now I just live with them. 19 There's no negotiation for residents 20 as to where oil and gas processes occur. One 21 resident says they don't sit down and tell you 22 they're going to build something right behind you. 23 We're about 500 feet away. The first time that 24 something told me something was happening was when 25 our animals started dying. We don't know how

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 202 1 dangerous this was until the well exploded and they 2 evacuated us. When is this ever going to go away? 3 I've been on antibiotics and steroids for 4 bronchitis and sinusitis almost since all of this 5 started. I'd like to add that our grandson has 6 been diagnosed with similar respiratory issues. 7 My participant goes on and says, if I 8 would have known this, I would have never. And in 9 his statement, he realizes that he never had the 10 choice. He emphasized being able and healthy 11 enough to work and be outside prior to all of this 12 happening in Karnes County. He said I think that 13 they, the industry, could do this in a more 14 responsible manner and that they can monitor what 15 they're doing on a daily basis and that they can 16 spend more money by monitoring and letting people 17 know when something is coming out that's dangerous. 18 People that are surrounded by these 19 oil and gas activities can tell you how much their 20 environment and their health has declined because 21 of it. A resident sitting next to me used an 22 oxygen mask and tried to explain to the doctors, 23 and the doctors have told them about how little 24 response they've gotten from industry 25 representatives and state and environmental

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 203 1 agencies. She says, he has restricted breathing 2 and doctors don't know why. 3 Doctors ran out of things to test for. 4 He doesn't go outside anymore. It bothers him. If 5 you make it to 70 without any respiratory issues, 6 then after months of this going on, all of a 7 sudden, you can't breathe anymore, I don't want his 8 health to deteriorate. His health will deteriorate 9 if we have to stay here. 10 And lastly, I just want to end this 11with saying, I'm here pleading for a better qualify 12 of life for these people. Determining the air -- 13 the quality of air associated to oil and gas 14drilling processes should include listening and 15 spending quality time with the people who are being 16 affected and living with these contaminants. To 17me, the people that I spoke with in Karnes County, 18 there's no doubt in my mind the air quality is 19 impacting their quality of life. 20 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you 21very much. Before you go, are there any questions? 22 MR. MOORE: No. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 24 testimony. 25 Okay. Folks, we're going to take a --

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 204 1 how long? We're going to take a ten-minute break, 2 so let's come back at -- let's come back at 3 3:00 o'clock. How about that? All right? Thanks, 4 folks. 5 (Break was had from 2:48 p.m. to 6 3:01 p.m.) 7 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, folks. We are 8 going to get started. If you could just grab a 9 seat, and I'd also like to invite Hal Suter to 10please come forward. You're up next. You're right 11 there? Okay. Sit right there. I've got my eyes 12 on you. Mr. Schade, please begin. 13 MR. SCHADE: Thank you. My name is 14 Gunnar Schade. I live in College Station, Texas, 15 and I'd like to talk to you in my role as a 16 concerned scientist about the issue. 17 MR. THOMPSON: And could you spell 18your name for the court reporter, please. 19 MR. SCHADE: G-u-n-n-a-r. Last name, 20 S-c-h-a-d-e. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 22 MR. SCHADE: A little bit different 23 topic than you have dealt with for a long time, and 24 I'm calling it here a little -- maybe a little 25because you're dealing with small sources, but they

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 205 1 have a large impact and although these sources are 2 small, the focus on only large sources is not going 3 to solve the problem. I'm very grateful that 4you're going to address all of the small sources. 5 Particularly, you're addressing methane, which has 6 not been addressed for a very long time, but it is 7 the second most important greenhouse gas and having 8 addressed it earlier, we would have saved a lot of 9 time with respect to making progress in the 10 greenhouse gas emissions. 11 I want to thank you for calling the 12proposed rule common sense because I think that's 13 exactly what it is because reducing methane 14 emissions is actually very, very easy. Now, I want 15 to give you a little bit of a backdrop on what 16methane is actually doing in the atmosphere. Most 17 of you will probably know this very well, but 18methane is not dropping globally, and it's not 19 dropping regionally. It has been increasing again 20 since about ten years in the atmosphere now, and we 21 scientists are not 100 percent sure where this is 22 coming from, but it is mostly happening in northern 23mid latitudes, and one of the reasons we're pretty 24 sure about is coal development in China, but other 25 conditions could go the development of -- excuse

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 206 1me -- shale resources in the United States. 2 The question often comes up in that 3 it's actually EPA's fault in part whether methane 4 emissions from oil and gas are dropping, and what 5 often gets cited with that statement is that EPA 6 emissions inventory shows it's dropping. If that 7 really were the case, then somebody please explain 8 to me as you can see here why ethane is increasing 9 since ethane is co-emitted? It's virtually only 10 with methane, but it's increasing almost 11 everywhere. So how can methane dropping -- be 12 dropping if ethane is increasing? 13 On the left-hand side of the recent 14publication you have here slide one from colleagues 15 in northeast and on the right-hand side is a copy 16 of our publication and research from about a half a 17year ago. One is showing Marcellus on the 18 left-hand side. On the right-hand side, the data 19 from Eagle Ford in Texas. 20 My critique of EPA is that you 21 continue to use and rely heavily on self-imported 22 data by the industry which is known to be biased. 23A large study by Adam Brandt that appeared in 24 Science two years ago have -- was a methane study 25 that critically showed that EPA's data may be

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 207 1 biased. I'm sorry that you can't see this very 2 clearly, but basically, the conclusion of the study 3 was, you know, in this part of the graph that 4 almost all ratios between estimates and reality are 5 smaller, but -- the ratio of reality to estimate is 6 larger than one with the total estimate hovering 7 around 50 percent underestimation. 8 On top of that, a recent paper shows 9 that one of the predominantly used instruments in 10 industry to measure leaks shows a very clear bias 11which we see in the graph on the right-hand side. 12 This is the one-to-one line between an independent 13 analyzer and the analyzer in question on the left 14half, and you can see that for many, many sources, 15 the analyzer is way underestimating where the 16methane should be. This same analyzer was used in 17 a study that industry keeps repeating as being the 18 study that shows that its emissions are low. This 19 work is incredible, and you should definitely have 20 a look at it. 21 Lastly, fool me once, fool me twice. 22 When arguments are made that emissions are 23 dropping, often data is shown that shows relative 24 emissions, but relative emissions are based on gas 25production, and science has shown that in those

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 208 1 areas where there's a very, very large gas 2 production, you tend to have lower methane 3 emissions. But those are the areas in this case, 4 so for Barnett and Marcellus, these are old ones 5 where the industry has made a lot of progress in 6 efficiency and the industry is forwarding those 7 areas as where it doesn't emit a lot of methane. 8 These are dry gas areas. 9 Most of the emissions that with work 10my colleagues would know show -- I'm sorry. 11Most -- that was the wrong direction. Most 12 emissions are happening in those areas where oil is 13 brought out of the ground, not from the gas. And 14my summary is here. I think it's very simple to 15 fix these leaks, and it would create a lot of jobs 16 to fix these leaks, but if you continue 17wastefulness, you will not create any jobs. 18 Therefore, I applaud you for this rule. I hope 19 that you will go further in creating even more jobs 20 by also regulating these system sources. Thank you 21very much. 22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 23 testimony and your patience in getting that set up 24 for you. Are there any questions from the panel? 25 MR. MOORE: No.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 209 1 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you very 2 much. 3 Mr. Suter? Okay. 4 MR. SUTER: I'm Hal Suter, S-u-t-e-r 5 is the last name. Don't worry about mispronouncing 6 it. It's a hard name. There was a baseball fan 7 named Bruce Suter, and there also was the relief 8 pitcher. When he was asked how you pronounce his 9 last name he said, just like Bruce, but the last 10 name is one less T and a lot less money. All 11 right. 12 I'm a member of the Lone Star Chapter 13 of the Sierra Club and the immediate past chair of 14 the Sierra Club. I'm also with the coastal and 15 regional group which is down there in Corpus 16 Christi, Texas. But we have a good chunk of 17members that are people from Eagle Ford Shale, 18 Karnes County, and all of the country around there. 19 There have been a number of horror stories from 20people who live there, and I think you can say 21 Denton is the same thing. 22 MR. THOMPSON: Could you move the mike 23 a little closer to you? A little more. 24 MR. SUTER: Do you want me to start 25 repeating all of that?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 210 1 MR. THOMPSON: No, sir. I got that. 2 MR. SUTER: Okay. So what we were 3 talking about is we put in -- the one thing about 4 that is that there are going to be a lot of 5 cumulative effects the way this industry has done 6 on. Sometimes these things are considered 7 individually, but added to the refineries down 8 there in Corpus Christi, the additions of more tank 9 farms, more storage vessels, et cetera, all of 10 these things add up just a little bit, little bit, 11 little bit, and it adds up to very big things. And 12 anything that can be done to mitigate what's going 13 on, it will be an improvement over what's happening 14 at the moment, and I certainly commend your Agency 15 for beginning the process of at least starting some 16 things, even though I will say ditto. I'm sure 17you've heard a lot of people that say it should be 18 expanded to existing facilities, as well. 19 I do want to talk just a little bit 20 about some of the practical politics of what's 21 going on here. I go and look in the mirror and I 22 sit there and there's something wrong because, you 23 know, Hal Suter is supposed to be a brunette. All 24 I see is all of this gray hair now, and I guess 25when I sit back and come to a hearing like this and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 211 1 I go back and have a lot of experience with all of 2 these various resource agencies here in Texas, I 3 can remember when there was a thing called the 4 Texas Water Commission. It merged with the Texas 5 Air Control Board, and it became the Texas Natural 6 Resource Conservation Commission, and, of course, 7 the name of it was TNRCC, which the way the acronym 8 is was called train wreck. 9 Well, that has gone and merged, and we 10 now call it the Texas Commission on Environmental 11 Quality. Now, with all due respect, gentlemen, 12 that is a misnomer, a very gross misnomer, because 13 it really should be TIPA, Texas industrial 14permitting agency or Texas industrial pollution 15 agency because it does almost nothing really for 16 the environment. 17 We have the Railroad Commission. Now, 18 I promised a young lady that's a member of my 19 group, Teresa Corea, who sits on the Railroad 20 Commission Task Force for the Eagle Ford Shale that 21 I would not be my normal caustic self about the 22 Railroad Commission. And I also cannot think of 23 any acronym or name for the Railroad Commission 24which would be appropriate in mixed company and 25particularly when I'm on the record here in the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 212 1 hearing, but all of that notwithstanding, there are 2 some very good people who work in those agencies. 3 They are people who want to do a good job, but they 4 cannot do so because of the political pressure 5 they're going to be under. 6 If we have a rule from an agency which 7 is somewhat removed, one or two layers removed from 8 the political pressure, it is very feasible, very 9 possible, very probable, that we are going to have 10 a chance for these regulators to do the good job 11which they want to do because they are free from 12 the political pressure, from the deadlines that 13 they're under here in Texas. 14 You know, like the previous speaker 15before was talking about Obi-Wan Kenobi, and it's 16probably pretty much true. We do need some Jedi 17 knights to come in and do some stuff here in Texas 18 because we are dealing with the dark side of the 19 force when it comes to the energy regulation here 20 in the state, and certainly anything that might be 21 done along those lines will be very helpful; but 22 basically, I feel if we can relieve some of the 23political pressure to allow people to do what they 24need to do, that will be a tremendous improvement, 25 so I'm free to answer any questions.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 213 1 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, Mr. Suter. Thank 2 you. Are there any questions for Mr. Suter? 3 MR. LAWRENCE: No. 4 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 5 testimony. 6 (Applause was heard.) 7 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. All right. So I 8 think a Linda Cooke is up next. 9 MS. COOKE: I thought you were scared. 10 I brought extra copies of my remarks. Do you want 11 those now? 12 MR. MOORE: We'll take those through 13 the registration desk. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, ma'am. Thank you. 15 MS. COOKE: Good afternoon. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon to you. 17 If you will, just pronounce your name and spell it 18 for the court reporter and begin your testimony. 19 MS. COOKE: Linda Cooke, L-i-n-d-a, 20 C-o-o-k-e. I live in Dallas. I'm here to voice my 21 support for the proposed rulemaking titled, "Oil 22 and national -- Natural Gas Sector: Emission 23 Standards for New and Modified Sources," docket 24number EPA-HQ-OAR-2010-20505 [sic]. 25 I'm very glad that you are here in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 214 1 Texas today to listen to the comments of people 2 such as myself because I want you to hear firsthand 3 how poorly served we are by our state regulator 4 agencies who favor business development and oil and 5 gas interests over the health and quality of life 6 of the people of Texas. 7 Over the years, the Texas Commission 8 on Environmental Quality has consistently proposed 9 new state lax rules for regulating the air quality 10 that do not control increasing levels of pollution. 11And consequently, the Dallas-Fort Worth area has 12 historically been in a nonattainment area for ozone 13 levels. 14 If the proposed new state 15 implementation -- implementation plan is 16 implemented without tougher federal standards to 17meet, Dallas-Fort Worth will remain out of 18 compliance. They have specifically refused to 19 consider regulating sources of methane emissions 20 like compressors on drilling sites which are 21present in significant numbers here in the Barnett 22 Shale. 23 Texas is a place where industry rides 24 roughshod over state regulators, and citizens don't 25have a level playing field to seek relief from the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 215 1 adverse health consequences of air pollution. The 2 Texas Railroad Commissioners were elected by 3 beneficiaries of the oil and gas industry, and they 4 have significant personal financial interests in 5 the oil and gas industry themselves. They have 6 strong incentives to pass blanket legislation that 7 ignore the rights of private citizens to protect 8 themselves from harmful emissions regardless of 9 wherever they live or work. This is especially 10meaningful in a state that produces as much as 11 30 percent of all gas and oil production in the 12 United States. 13 I'm sure many people testifying here 14have already mentioned that the elected 15 representatives in the state legislature are also 16 beholden to the oil and gas industry. They cite 17 oil and gas as an economic driver and recently 18passed House Bill 40 that stripped municipalities 19 of the right to establish setbacks to protect their 20 citizens from industrial processes, so now citizens 21 can no longer protect their health and safety from 22 the emissions and explosive dangers of industrial 23processes by choosing to live within a city with a 24protective ordinance. 25 In the past, drilling operations have

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 216 1 been in rural areas. Now they can no longer be 2 prohibited in the cities despite the votes of the 3 people that live there. There are no longer any 4 safe places to live. Those with air pollution 5 related illnesses particularly suffer, and I'm one 6 of those. I was also shocked to -- I say shocked 7 to learn during TECQ's state impact plan meeting 8 last spring that the state makes no consideration 9 for airport emissions in quality air plan -- in air 10 quality planning. 11 I was advised that the state does not 12measure or review those emissions because airports 13 are under the federal regulation. As a Dallas 14 resident who lives near Love Field, I have 15witnessed over the past year the dramatic expansion 16 of services there since the lifting of the Wright 17Amendment. This brings home to me how critical 18 federal regulations are to my personal quality of 19 life, so I need your help and the people of Texas 20 are in need of EPA's oversight and federal 21 regulation of methane pollution as ever before. 22 My wish would be to expand the 23 regulations to include emissions from all equipment 24not just new and reworked sites. Please bear these 25 comments in mind while making your decision. I

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 217 1 thank you for your consideration. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Cooke. 3 Thank you for your testimony. 4 (Applause was heard.) 5 MR. THOMPSON: Ms. Cooke, one second. 6 Are there any questions? 7 MR. MOORE: No. 8 MR. LAWRENCE: No. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 10 Thank you. Okay. At this time, I'd like to invite 11 Ranjana Bhandari. And then Jim Schermbeck will 12 follow the next testimony. 13 MS. BHANDARI: My name is Ranjana 14 Bhandari. I am from Arlington, Texas, and 15 represent a community group called Liveable 16Arlington. 17 MR. THOMPSON: And I'm sorry. Could 18you spell your name for the court reporter, please. 19 MS. BHANDARI: R-a-n-j-a-n-a. 20 Bhandari, B-h-a-n-d-a-r-i. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 22 MS. BHANDARI: I thank the EPA for 23 giving me this opportunity to comment. Arlington 24 is a city of 362,000 people in an area of less than 25 a hundred square miles. At present, we have

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 218 1 400-plus gas wells in 56 drill sites as shown in 2 the Railroad Commission map. Let me advance to the 3 next one. Earlier this year, the City of Arlington 4projected growing this number to more than 900 gas 5 wells in the next few years. Our city is also 6 covered with a maze of gas gathering and -- yes, 7 that is the slide -- I'm sorry -- gas gathering and 8 transmission pipelines and compressor stations. 9 The next slide shows a map of 10Arlington with one-mile circles around each drill 11 site in the city. Given the intense drilling in 12Arlington and the neighboring cities, residents 13 spend time in multiple overlapping circles wherever 14 they happen to be at any time. Our children are 15 constantly exposed to emissions from these sites 16whether they are at home, school, in the park, a 17 little league game, at the playground. With 18 drilling expanding, this picture will only get 19 worse. 20 At the recent urban drilling forum 21hosted by our city on August 1st of this year, our 22 fire chief stated that gas drilling was here to 23 stay in Arlington for a period of next -- of the 24next 30 or 50 years. My son who is now a teenager 25was born in Arlington. He has spent almost his

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 219 1 entire life around drill sites, gas wells, 2 fracking, and the highly toxic emission and health 3 effects that accompany it. He was a toddler when 4 all of this started. These days, however, I hear 5 him talk about college. 6 If he escapes this toxic legacy of 7 drilling and gets away from it when he goes to 8 college, the global climate effect of all of this 9 methane leaking into our atmosphere will still 10 follow him for the rest of his life. This is true 11 for all of Arlington's children and for millions of 12 children elsewhere in the shale fields of America. 13 The climate effects of all of this 14drilling are, of course, global. In Texas, with 15 the passage of House Bill 40 this year, the state 16 government has taken away a city's right to 17 regulate drilling. Our Railroad Commission does 18 not have enough inspectors. Only 158 statewide at 19 last count or the will to monitor the large number 20 of wells we have in our state. There are 400 gas 21wells in Arlington alone. With this vacuum in 22 local and state monitoring and regulation, federal 23 rules are our only hope here. We need national 24 rules to protect the millions of people who now 25 live very close to drilling.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 220 1 We appreciate the EPA taking this 2 critical first step to reduce methane pollution 3 from oil and gas facilities. Methane is an 4 extremely potent greenhouse gas. Over a 20-year 5 period, it is 85 times more powerful than carbon 6 dioxide. 30 percent of U.S. oil and gas production 7 comes from Texas which means a large share of the 8 methane problem happens right here in this state. 9 These new rules are also important to 10 our health because the required controls will 11 reduce other toxic air pollution that is related 12with the methane. It will cut emissions of VOCs 13 and smog-forming pollutants. The Dallas-Fort Worth 14 area where Arlington has been in nonattainment of 15 EPA smog standards for a long time. It also has 16 very high rates of childhood asthma. These rules 17will also reduce emissions of compounds like 18 benzene which is a serious threat for public 19 health. 20 Industry claims job losses in arguing 21 against methane rules, however, Colorado's 22 experience shows us that is not the case. The 23 Colorado rules are considered tougher than the EPA 24 rules. Federal rules would require producers to 25 upgrade pumps and compressors on new wells and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 221 1 expand the use of methane-capturing equipment for 2 gas and oil wells. Unlike Colorado, they don't 3 cover methane from existing facilities. Colorado 4 requires companies to inspect for methane leaks in 5 tanks, pipelines, and wells once a month at large 6 facilities and plug them using infrared cameras. 7 Noble, the state's second largest oil 8 driller, said in a presentation to Colorado last 9 year that compliance would cost about $3 million a 10year. They told investors that the cost wouldn't 11be material to earnings or cash flow. The proposed 12 rules are tough, but they're the right thing to do. 13 They provide enhanced air quality benefits at a 14manageable cost. 15 Even with the best technology in 16place, burning dirty fossil fuels places future 17 generations at extreme risk from climate change. 18 While supporting a rapid shift to clean renewable 19 energy, we strongly urge the EPA to implement these 20 rules for both new and existing oil and gas 21 facilities in the interim to help preserve not just 22 a liveable Arlington, but also a liveable planet. 23 Thank you. 24 (Applause was heard.) 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 222 1 testimony. Are there any questions? 2 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again. 4 MR. SCHERMBECK: Mr. Thompson, are you 5 from Region 6? 6 MR. THOMPSON: No, I'm not. 7 MR. SCHERMBECK: I feel like I've seen 8 you before. 9 MR. THOMPSON: I know exactly who you 10 are. I've chaired before when you've testified. 11 MR. SCHERMBECK: Really? 12 MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. I remember 13you. 14 MR. SCHERMBECK: There have been a lot 15 of hearings lately. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for coming 17 today. The floor is yours. Please state and spell 18 for name for the court reporter and then begin. 19 MR. SCHERMBECK: My name is Jim 20 Schermbeck. It's spelled S-c-h-e-r-m-b-e-c-k. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 22 MR. SCHERMBECK: I'm director of 23 Downward Risk. It's a 21-year-old local clean air 24 group that's been tracking and dealing with the 25 D/FW smog since about 1995. I'm here today

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 223 1 representing an oppressed majority, people who 2 breathe. Because a majority of Texas residents 3 want cleaner air, that's shown in poll after poll, 4 a majority of Texas residents want action on 5 climate change and a majority of Texas residents 6 want the state to follow federal law. However, we 7 are governed by man, and they are all men who do 8 not share these values. 9 It's true that after years of 10 borderline illegal gerrymandering and intense 11 disenfranchisement, they were elected; but they do 12 not represent the majority of Texans on these 13 issues. 14 Our situation is analogous to the 15 situation in the 1960's during the civil rights 16movement. Just as Alabama and Mississippi and 17 other southern states, including Texas, attempted 18 to nullify or disregard civil rights legislation 19 for a whole population within those states during 20 those years, so Texas is now attempting to nullify 21 federal environmental law. It's kind of a 22 confederate approach to clean air. 23 It's hard to put much stock in an 24 agency that doesn't even believe that smog is much 25 of a problem, which TECQ officially does, so I'm

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 224 1 here to speak for this oppressed majority when I 2 tell you that most Texans support these methane 3 rules and other clean air measures, but you could 4 do more. You could cover existing facilities 5 because the Barnett Shale now has almost 17,000 or 6 more wells and over 700 compressors. It's a hive 7 of oil and gas activity in the middle of the fourth 8 largest metropolitan area in the country. 9 Within these rules are special 10 regulations for smog nonattainment areas like ours, 11 like Dallas-Fort Worth, that would require new 12 control guideline techniques to reduce methane and 13 smog from -- and smog-forming emissions in new 14 clean air plants such as the one being drawn up for 15 Dallas-Fort Worth right now. The problem is that 16 these guidelines don't take effect for two years in 17 the current rules. It might as well be 20 because 18 there is a new clean air plan being drafted right 19 now for the 75 standards, and we need these kind of 20 control techniques installed in that plan now. 21 For instance, we're only one of four 22metropolitan areas in the country not expected to 23meet the 85 standards by your own Agency according 24 to models released earlier this year. Only one in 25 four non-California cities not expected to meet the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 225 1 75 standard by 2018. We're the only one of those 2 cities not expected to meet that standard that has 3 significant oil and gas pollution involved in its 4 ozone formation. We're the only one of those four 5 areas where this childhood asthma rate is two to 6 three times the state and national average. 7 Last July, there were 11 studies that 8 were published -- peer reviewed and published 9 showing that methane was leaking from the Barnett 10 Shale at 50 percent more than predicted levels -- 11 than EPA-predicted levels. You might have heard 12 that ozone levels in D/FW are going down. That is 13 not true. In 19- -- I believe in 2009, we had 14 ozone levels at 86 parts per billion. This year, 15 the design value is at 83. That's a three parts 16per billion in the last five or six years it's gone 17 down. It's not going down significantly. In fact, 18 it went up this year. This summer is so much worse 19 than the last, the ozone actually went up two parts 20per billion. So no, ozone is not going down in the 21 area. It's getting worse. 22 Texas is stalling on this plan hoping 23 that their delay will cause attention to revert 24back to the new standard coming down the line in 25 October, that attention will be paid to that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 226 1 timeline and that everybody will forget about this 2 current plan that they cannot possibly meet by 3 2017. That's the deadline being held over there. 4 A very loud minority in Austin and DC 5 would have you believe that most Texans don't want 6 the EPA to do its job. They're mistaken. They are 7 the George Wallaces standing in the schoolhouse 8 door. They are the Bull Connors. They are the 9 Volkswagen of state government. That is why we 10 need the EPA to send the equivalent of federal 11marshals to enforce the law. The state won't 12provide us with our right to clean air. The EPA 13must. Please, please let my people breathe. 14 Thanks. 15 (Applause was heard.) 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 17 testimony. Mr. Schermbeck, before you go, any 18 questions? 19 MR. MOORE: No. 20 MR. LAWRENCE: No. 21 MR. SCHERMBECK: I'm assuming you have 22my e-mail address. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Yes. Thank you very 24much. Okay. At this time, I'd like to invite 25 Molly -- I think that's R-o-o-k-e, Rooke? And then

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 227 1 John -- that's correct. Thank you. Good 2 afternoon. 3 MS. ROOKE: Good afternoon. I'm Molly 4 Rooke, R-o-o-k-e, and I split my time between 5 living in Dallas and down in South Texas on my 6 family's ranch. I actually drove up for this from 7 down there. I'm a mineral owner and a property 8 owner, very familiar with oil and gas operations, 9 which are still ongoing after several generations 10 on our ranch. I'm also asthmatic and an 11 environmentalist. 12 I'm terribly in support of EPA's 13 efforts to clean our air and reduce greenhouse 14 emissions by controlling methane emissions from oil 15 and gas sources. I hope that the EPA will further 16 strengthen the rules and include existing sources 17 of methane emissions from oil and gas operations. 18 The Dallas-Fort Worth areas need strong federal 19 rules on methane to clean up our -- to help clean 20 up our regional high ozone smog which sickens so 21many, including myself. 22 The flaring that I see whenever I'm in 23 the Eagle Ford Shale is extremely widespread. It's 24very disturbing to see all of that methane being 25 flared off, and it's only polluting our air as well

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 228 1 as wasting a very valuable resource. And we talk 2 about how important our natural gas is, and then we 3 just flare it off because they've overproduced or 4 brought the price down, so it's not -- it's not 5 something we should be doing, definitely not as a 6 mineral owner and not as someone who cares about 7 our air quality and our greenhouse gas emissions. 8 Of course, as you've heard -- as 9 you've heard from so many today, this is lots of 10 variation on the same theme, but it's because we're 11 all suffering the same thing. The Texas regulators 12 are just not out there protecting us. Their goal 13 is to protect the profits of the oil and gas 14 industry at the expense of all of us, and they have 15 expanded issuing permits allowing extended flaring 16with more than 3,012 permits in 2014 and 5,207 in 17 2015, with up to 30 percent of all gas being flared 18 or vented in some counties in the Eagle Ford Shale. 19 That is ridiculous and obscene. 20 It is crucial that the EPA do all that 21 it can to establish and enforce the strongest 22possible rules on greenhouse gas emissions 23 including methane emissions from the oil and gas 24 sector especially in the absence of protection from 25 state regulators or legislators. We are counting

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 229 1 on you. Thank you. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you 3 for your testimony. Any questions? 4 MR. MOORE: No. 5 MR. LAWRENCE: No. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 7 (Applause was heard.) 8 MR. LAZARATION: Good afternoon. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 10 MR. LAZARATION: My name is John 11 Lazaration. The last name is spelled 12 L-a-z-a-r-a-t-i-o-n, and this is a first for me. I 13 felt it was an opportunity to speak directly to my 14 federal government to let you know that I, too, am 15 a Texan who feels that this government, the State 16 of Texas, is not acting in the best interests of 17 the residents of Texas. I am concerned. I will 18 not try to presume to tell you how dangerous these 19methane and the other gases are to the greenhouse 20 gas problem that this country is facing, but I will 21 say that scientists are telling us every time they 22 do a new study that things are happening faster 23 than they expected them to happen. I think we're 24 in trouble, and we don't have a lot of time. 25 These rules are a wonderful first

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 230 1 step. They can't be our last. The -- the straw 2 argument against doing these are the cost to 3 industry and the cost to the economy. Well, I 4 think Denmark has proven that you can have a clean 5 economy and a growing economy, and it is -- the 6 government, I believe, set aside approximately 7 $50 million to deal with two small fishing 8 villages -- moving two small fishing villages in 9 Alaska. The cost of addressing greenhouse gas now 10 will pale when it comes time to move Houston. 11 And I am sorry, but I believe that the 12way our economy is set up, we have privatized the 13profits of the fossil fuel industry, but we are 14 socializing the cost of these industries. A 15 greener clean economy is a must. Thank you very 16much. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, 18 Mr. Lazaration. Are there any questions from the 19panel? 20 MR. MOORE: No. I just wondered where 21you do live in Texas. 22 MR. LAZARATION: I live in DeSoto. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 24 testimony. 25 (Applause was heard.)

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 231 1 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, 2 I'd like to invite Ingrid Kelley and Richard 3 Bradley to come forward. Good afternoon, 4 Mrs. Kelley. How are you? 5 MS. KELLEY: Good afternoon, whatever 6 Jedi warriors that you are. It's Kelley with an 7 E-Y. Thank you. 8 Premature mortality. I found it 9 mentioned often in the literature while searching 10 about methane emissions and public health. 11 Premature mortality does not include accidental 12 death. Premature cardiovascular and respiratory 13mortality related to methane alone is at the top of 14 the list. This caught my attention as I'm an RN in 15 a heart failure, heart, and lung transplant unit. 16 It's difficult to witness the struggles of those 17patients. Breathing is a chore. Walking to the 18 bathroom, bathing, eating, talking all are 19 exhaustive tasks. 20 A recent study done over a four-year 21 time frame in Pennsylvania found that 22 hospitalization rates increased in areas of close 23proximity to unconventional oil and gas drilling. 24 In this study, cardiovascular admissions were 25 statistically significantly higher. The effects on

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 232 1 children's health from exposure to environmental 2 toxins is staggering. A conservative estimate for 3 the cost of asthma in the United States is over 4 $2 billion, and for childhood cancers the cost is 5 over $600,000 per case. Their health is 6 compromised before they become adults, increasing 7 the odds of premature mortality. Is this the 8 future we want for our children? 9 Study after study concludes that 10 reductions in methane emissions are beneficial to 11human health. Overall reductions in ozone-related 12premature mortality would be greatly reduced. The 13 costs of implementing these regulations is negated 14by the costs associated with premature mortality. 15 Should new technological learning take place that 16 aggressively reduces methane emissions, we would 17 see a reduction in premature mortality five times 18 greater than the least expensive scenario of 19methane control. That's over 640,000 lives. 20 Methane not only is a threat to our 21 air quality but also to our water supply. Methane 22 contamination is now well documented in the 23 Marcellus and Utica Shale area and in the Barnett 24 Shale region from unconventional natural gas 25 extraction. There is not a system in the human

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 233 1 body that isn't adversely impacted by the dangers 2 of methane. 3 Additional benefits of methane 4 regulation will decrease the negative effects on 5 climate change. Climate change alone will further 6 negatively impact our health. If we cannot 7 eliminate the industries that endanger our health, 8 then the very least we can do is regulate the 9 emissions that they release in order to protect the 10public's health. If we don't, Americans will 11 shoulder the economic burden from healthcare costs 12 related to premature mortality. 13 The cost analysis of premature 14mortality and methane emissions are available, so 15my question is, why are we not regulating to 16maximize the best possible outcome for human health 17 benefits? What price do you have on the life of 18your loved ones? How much is it worth to you to 19protect them? The answer to these questions is 20 obvious. We shouldn't even have to ask. 21 I'm not going to describe how and why 22methane is leaking in massive quantities from 23 hydraulic fracking or describe how methane impacts 24 the climate. You know that information. Stop the 25bottom-up regulations. Don't rely on the industry

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 234 1 to self-regulate. It is obvious by the frequent 2 accidents occurring that they can't control it. 3 Also, this technology was implemented without 4 concern or caution regarding the risk to human 5 health, including to their own employees. 6 Our state regulatory agencies often 7 ignore our complaints or don't act on them 8 appropriately, and it is not just the methane that 9 is poisoning us. All the VOCs, nitrogen oxides, 10 the countless carcinogens and mutagenic chemicals 11 that are used by the industry is deteriorating our 12 health and our environment. Protect us, please, 13 for my patients, my loved ones, and for all of us. 14 Thank you for your time. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 16 testimony. 17 (Applause was heard.) 18 MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions 19 for Ms. Kelley? 20 MR. MOORE: No. 21 MR. LAWRENCE: You're an RN you said 22 here in Dallas? 23 MS. KELLEY: Yes, here in Dallas, and 24my paper is cited heavily. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you again

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 235 1 for your testimony. 2 Mr. Bradley, please. Good afternoon, 3 Mr. Bradley. 4 MR. BRADLEY: Good afternoon. Thank 5 you for having me. Do you want me to spell my 6 name? 7 MR. THOMPSON: For the court reporter. 8 MR. BRADLEY: My name is Ricky, 9 R-i-c-k-y, Bradley, B-r-a-d-l-e-y. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 11 MR. BRADLEY: I'm here today with an 12 organization called Citizens' Climate Lobby. We do 13 a lot of work at the federal level trying to get a 14 federal price on carbon. I really appreciate the 15 opportunity that you guys presented us today as 16 citizens to come in and to voice our opinions and 17 to give input. 18 I've spent the last 15 years or so 19 between Houston and Dallas, and if you know 20 anything, you guys obviously know about these 21 cities. You almost have to have a cognitive 22 distance when you're driving into one of these 23 cities and see the smog and knowing that you're 24 going to work there. I mean, it's just -- you have 25 to be disconnected from it.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 236 1 I really appreciate your efforts, and 2 I'm very supportive of the regulations that we are 3 all commenting on here today, but I would like the 4 EPA to go even further. What really upsets me more 5 than anything is some of the doublespeak that we 6 get in the state. It's my sense, really, that 7 what's at stake here is not only our personal 8 liberty but our economic liberty, and we need the 9 EPA to step in and help out with that. 10 I don't understand the arguments that 11people have about liberty but then to be able to 12 forsake their own personal freedom and their own 13 health with a cost benefit analysis. We don't do 14 that with anything else when it comes to liberty, 15 and that's exactly what's at stake here is our 16 ability to live and survive and thrive in our 17 environment. That's very important to me. There 18 should be no cost benefit analysis on this. 19 So what it really comes to for me is 20 that this is an economic question of hidden costs 21 of oil and gas production, and, you know, there's 22 two options. There's regulation and also a price 23 on greenhouse gas emissions. In the absence of 24 congressional action, we're doing exactly what we 25have to do, and I applaud you guys for your efforts

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 237 1 and this administration for everything that they've 2 done. 3 Really, to me, it comes down to this. 4 The last thing I'll say, I won't take all of your 5 time. 6 MR. THOMPSON: No, sir. You have 7 three minutes. 8 MR. BRADLEY: You know, no business 9 has a right to exist if they can't control all of 10 their costs and turn a profit. Right? I mean, 11 that is not how our free market system is set up to 12work, and anything less than that -- anything less 13 than holding it fully accountable for all of their 14 costs is, indeed, a subsidy or a handout to that 15 industry. You know, I don't take my trash out and 16 dump it on the street and expect everybody else to 17pay for it and pick it up. I have to pay for my 18 trash. 19 That type of pollution is not being 20paid for by the producers, and I applaud you for 21your efforts to make that happen. And if it's in 22 the most inefficient way, and that's what I truly 23 believe through regulation, so be it. If the 24 industry is going to fight and not allow the 25market-based approaches work, then I applaud your

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 238 1 efforts in everything you're doing. Thank you. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Bradley. 3 Are there any questions for Mr. Bradley? 4 MR. MOORE: No. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 6 testimony. 7 (Applause was heard.) 8 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like 9 to ask Colata Harlan and Brett Cease if they're in 10 the room to please come forward for testimony. 11 Okay. Good afternoon. 12 MR. CEASE: Good afternoon. Thank you 13 for the time. My name is Brett Cease, B-r-e-t-t, 14 C-e-a-s-e. I am a resident of Denton and a public 15policy and doctorate student at UT Dallas. And I 16 just, I guess, want to begin by thanking all of you 17 gentlemen for setting this public hearing up and 18 for making time to come to Dallas and listen to the 19 voices of citizens and area residents and commend 20 kind of the efforts being made on behalf of the EPA 21 to regulate the law of the commons. 22 Some of my interests in research areas 23 are really looking at the kind of economic 24 efficiencies of the law of the commons and really 25 looking at what to do to really make sure to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 239 1 protect kind of the commons area that all of us 2 really inhabit collectively, and I think that the 3 proposed climate air quality and permitting rules 4 for the oil and natural gas industry take a really 5 vital and important first step in doing that, and I 6 just have a couple of quick comments on the way 7 that we can continue to go in the direction of 8 protecting the commons. 9 The first we are really looking at is 10 the cost benefit analyses. Also, quantifying the 11benefits that will come from the reduced emissions 12 of VOCs. The formation of smog and soot from those 13 hazardous air pollutants were not included in the 14proposed draft rules, I believe. In addition to 15 that, we'd love to also uplift the importance of 16 looking at the economic question of having the 17 ability to look at the benefits of the sale of the 18 gas that would be saved in the transmission and 19 storage segments as well. That wasn't included in 20 the draft rules, and I think that would be a 21 societal benefit or cost depending on which side 22you're looking at. I think it would also be 23 important to include existing sources as well as 24new sources of methane emissions in the extension 25 of these rules as well as including storage vessels

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 240 1 and tanks into the actual regulation process as 2 well. 3 I think that in addition to that, it 4 would be important for the EPA to look at their 5 current standard of allowing either captured or 6 combustion for methane emissions, allowing 7 operators to either do either, onsite perhaps is 8 not the farthest we could go from a perspective of 9 waste as well as of an environmental perspective. 10 We minimize the flare as much as possible but allow 11 it only if technically feasible or impossible, I 12 guess, would be a step in the right direction. 13 And I guess the last comment I would 14 ask is also, you know, just to require the 15 inspections are not done on a semiannual basis, but 16 at least quarterly and that the system, the way it 17 currently is set up, would incentivize operators to 18 ignore or overlook leaks in order to qualify for 19 the schedule of less frequent inspections that they 20 currently would be set up to do and instead have it 21be required at all points. 22 Again, I guess I'll just close by 23 saying I appreciate what the EPA is doing with this 24 step especially if the U.S. is serious about 25meeting its international greenhouse gas reduction

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 241 1 commitments. We have the upcoming Paris 2 conference, and with the timeliness of the Pope's 3 visit, we ask at this time -- I appreciate that 4 this step is being taken as studies have shown that 5 we won't make those commitments unless we cut 6 methane from oil and gas sources by 40 to 45 7 percent by 2025. So thank you again for your time, 8 and I appreciate the chance to speak. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Yes. Thank you, 10 Mr. Cease. I think we have a question. 11 MR. MOORE: You -- I wanted to clarify 12 and make sure that I heard you correctly. 13 MR. CEASE: Okay. 14 MR. MOORE: On the frequency of the 15 surveys for leaks, you were suggesting that we 16 should have a quarterly requirement -- require 17 quarterly surveying without the frequency changing? 18 MR. CEASE: Correct. I guess that 19 would be -- I think monthly, quarterly. At this 20point, kind of I'll leave that up to your best 21 judgment. 22 MR. MOORE: But no change in 23 frequency? 24 MR. CEASE: Correct. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Any additional

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 242 1 questions? 2 (No response.) 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for 4your testimony. 5 MR. CEASE: Thank you. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. I'm going to 7 reach out once more for Colata Harlan. Is she 8 coming to show up? No? All right. At this time, 9 I'd like to ask Terry Burns and Jodi -- I can't 10 read the last name. It's not that I can't 11pronounce it. I just can't read it. 12 MS. ISMERT: Ismert. 13 MR. THOMPSON: Ismert? Okay. Thank 14you. Hi, Mr. Burns. 15 MR. BURNS: Good afternoon, members of 16 the board here, and I thank you for giving me the 17 opportunity to speak. I very much appreciate EPA 18 coming out to Dallas on this important issue and 19 taking public testimony. 20 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. 21 MR. BURNS: I'm a retired physician in 22 San Antonio and cochair of a group of the Sierra 23 Club. I speak on behalf of our thousands of 24members in the San Antonio region. We strongly 25 support the proposed rules regulating methane

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 243 1 emissions from the oil and gas industry. We are in 2 San Antonio just north of downwind from the huge 3 Eagle Ford fracking plant. Our air quality has 4 deteriorated substantially over the last several 5 years and is now in nonattainment for current ozone 6 standards let alone the soon to be released new 7 standards. 8 A significant portion of our air 9 pollution comes from transport, both down IH-35, 10 the corridor from North Central Texas coal plants 11 and also from Eagle Ford to the southeast. VOCs 12 are a major contributor to our smog, and Eagle Ford 13 is a major emitter of these VOCs. Our air has 14become unhealthy and is harming our children and 15 elderly, asthmatics and people with COPD, and 16people who work outside. We are trying to build a 17more physically active and fit community, and yet, 18 going outside can be unhealthy. 19 I frequently attend our area council 20 government meetings and have seen extensive data 21 supporting the above claims. I have seen infrared 22pictures of huge gas leaks at Eagle Ford drilling 23 sites and from storage tanks. I have seen 24night-sky images of dozens and dozens of flares 25 throughout the Eagle Ford area.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 244 1 The new rules are an important first 2 step to correcting these problems. It is 3 essential, however, that these rules be extended to 4 apply to existing infrastructure such as mostly 5 what we have now in Eagle Ford, otherwise we in 6 San Antonio will see very little benefit. 7 The rules come with modest cost to 8 industry, much of which can be recouped by the 9 capture and sale of these now wasted gases. 10 Flaring should be allowed only for safety and where 11 no other alternative is available. Inspections 12 should be fixed and quarterly with mandatory 13 reporting to EPA. 14 Repair times to correct leaks should 15 not be permitted to exceed 30 days. Storage tanks 16 and compressors at well sites should be included in 17 the rule. Large gas clouds have been documented 18 escaping from these. These rules will provide 19 substantial public health benefit which should be 20 included in the cost benefit analysis. They will 21 significantly reduce emissions of a major 22 contributor to greenhouse gases and climate change. 23 Ideally, we should be moving rapidly 24 away from fossil fuels including natural gas, but 25 in the meantime, we need to do all we can as

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 245 1 rapidly as possible to reduce greenhouse gas 2 emissions like methane and associated VOCs and air 3 toxins and carcinogens, and these measures will 4 greatly improve -- improve our public health as 5 well as the climate. Please extend the rule to 6 existing infrastructure. Thank you. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Burns. 8 Are there any questions from the panel? 9 MR. MOORE: No. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. Thank 11you for your testimony. 12 Good afternoon. 13 MS. ISMERT: Good afternoon. I'm Jodi 14 Ismert, and I just wanted to say thank you so much 15 for letting us speak at this hearing as well as 16putting forth these new -- these potential new 17 controls. I am personally very excited about them, 18 so I definitely support the new regulations. 19 The one thing I definitely wish, I 20 wish these were actually for existing sources as 21well. I think that's extremely important and 22 that's actually a primary concern in addition to 23 the future sources. I am a citizen, and I'm a 24mother. I don't represent any organization, 25 although today, I've heard and will hear from many

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 246 1 that represent organizations and businesses and you 2 will also hear those who have a vested financial 3 interest in the outcome of your decision. 4 My interests are in the health and 5 wellness of my family as well as the health and 6 wellness of future generations. We've spent years 7 as citizens watching very little get done as far as 8 methane emissions are concerned, especially in the 9 state of Texas, and very little get done to stave 10 off climate change. People in power who the 11 citizens voted for have often avoided their 12 responsibilities and have instead favored the 13profit maximization of oil and gas companies over 14 the rights and public good of citizens. I believe 15 that's truly where the battle is at this point for 16 citizens. We are losing our rights. We are 17watching them diminish. 18 In the state of Texas, we watched our 19 rights diminish for home rule. Very recently, we 20 lost the -- the possibility to truly -- to truly 21have the proper setbacks for these methane 22 emissions as well as volatile organic compounds, 23 like benzene which is a cancer-causing toxin. I 24believe this is a problem. 25 The problem that citizens have today

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 247 1 is that companies and state governments are placing 2 profit maximization over the citizens' rights to 3 health and safety. In this issue, we as citizens 4 are seeing our rights diminish. We are seeing that 5 when we do appeal to our governments to protect the 6 public good, they are instead avoiding their 7 responsibilities in favor of representing money 8 interests and also working with them to create laws 9 such as HB 40. It's a huge problem because 10 ordinary citizens like me are losing the battle, so 11 I stand here before you today not as a 12 representative for any money interests but simply 13 as a concerned citizen, a mother, and a human 14being. And I'm asking you to please push forth 15with these new regulations that we have been 16waiting so long for. 17 I wish the regulations would also 18 include existing wells, existing sources, as I have 19mentioned earlier. These really are a major 20problem, and without addressing these, I feel we 21 are missing and avoiding a regulation that should 22 have been completed long ago, and this correction 23 should absolutely be restated backwards to 24preexisting sources that pollute the air we breath. 25 Methane packs a punch over two dozen

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 248 1 the potency of carbon dioxide, and existing well 2 sites are leaky systems. We need regulators, and 3 in my direct area alone, there are over 250 gas 4 wells; so knowing that they leak volatile organic 5 compounds like benzene very close to my home, very 6 close to my daughter and her school, it's a huge 7 concern. I would like to see regulations on these 8 existing sources. 9 The state and the regulatory agencies 10 in Texas have made it quite clear through their 11 inaction and also through some of their actions 12 like HB 40 that they are not going to properly 13 regulate oil and gases. They have made it more 14difficult for citizens to create setbacks for 15health and safety protection, as I've already 16 stated. I urge you to please make those new 17 regulations and also to have them encompass the 18 existing sources which are a major source. And 19 that's mostly what I wanted to say today. I'm 20 hoping that you will please, please include the 21 existing sources as well as the future sources as 22well. Thank you. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Ismert. 24Any questions from the panel? 25 MR. LAWRENCE: No.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 249 1 MR. MOORE: You mentioned that you had 2 oil and gas wells and other equipment near you. Do 3 you know how far your home is away from them? 4 MS. ISMERT: I do. It's a little less 5 than a mile is where my home stands and well within 6 the two-mile range, as well. 7 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 8 MS. ISMERT: You're welcome. 9 MR. LAWRENCE: What town do you live 10 in? 11 MS. ISMERT: Denton. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Additional questions? 13 (No response.) 14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for 15your testimony. 16 MS. ISMERT: Thank you very much, as 17well. 18 (Applause was heard.) 19 MR. THOMPSON: All right. I'd like to 20 invite Adam Ringle and Dr. Adam Rindeff, 21 R-i-n-d-e-f-f [sic]. Are they in the room? Are 22 there any Adams in the room? Here we go. There's 23 one. Okay. Great. Good afternoon, sir. 24 MR. RINGLE: Thanks for having me. 25 Good afternoon.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 250 1 MR. THOMPSON: Thanks for being here. 2 Please state your name and spell it for the court 3 reporter. 4 MR. RINGLE: Sure. My name is Adam 5 Ringle, and I'm here to speak in support of the 6 proposed rules on methane and VOC emissions. I 7 also urge you to expand the coverage of the rule. 8 I'm a professor of philosophy at the University of 9 North Texas and a member of the Denton Drilling 10Awareness Group, which lead the Frac Free Denton 11 campaign to ban hydraulic fracturing in our city, 12 but I'm speaking to you today as the father of two 13 children. My son, named MG, who is 7, and my 14daughter, Lulu, who is 3, pictured here on 15vacation. 16 My wife and I love Denton, but there's 17 one thing that keeps us up at night wondering 18whether we should try to move, and that's air 19pollution. We have some of the worst air in the 20 states, and we also worry about little Lulu who 21 occasionally has to use a nebulizer to help her 22 breathe. Now, I know there are many reasons we 23 have such polluted air, but there's no denying that 24 oil and gas production is a big part of it. 25 Oil and gas production accounts for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 251 1more VOC emissions than on-road mobile sources 2 according to the EPA. A new study out by my 3 school, UNT, shows that ozone levels are higher in 4 areas with shale gas activities than other areas, 5 so I started the Denton Drilling Advisory Group in 6 2011 to help the city write new rules for shale gas 7 development, and we worked for over two years to 8 strike a balance to accommodate fracking while 9 protecting public health. 10 Unfortunately, the industry continued 11 to act unneighborly, and the state government 12 turned a blind eye. Annual contributions from the 13 oil and gas industry to Texas state legislators 14 total over $23 million. About 2 million of that 15 goes directly to Railroad Commission Commissioners, 16 those who are supposed to regulate the industry. 17 Only as a last resort did we call for the fracking 18 ban. My son, MG, joined me and hundreds of 19 citizens in a grass-roots efforts. We knocked on 20 thousands of doors, many of them in close proximity 21 to the nearly 300 gas wells in our town. 22 When we won the vote, my family and so 23many other families in Denton celebrated the 24prospect of cleaner air and safer neighborhoods, 25but it is not to be. In short order, our state

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 252 1 legislature implemented a law, HB 40, written by 2 and for the industry. It didn't just kill our 3 democratically enacted ordinance. It subverted a 4 Texas tradition of local control. It replaced the 5 community reasonable standard that prioritized 6 health and safety with a commercially reasonable 7 standard which prioritized the industry's bottom 8 line. Now the state has taken away our ability to 9 defend ourselves, so now my children and their 10 friends need the EPA more than ever. 11 The net benefits of your proposed rule 12 by 2025 would be $150 million. The proposed rules 13 addresses global concerns about the adverse effects 14 of air toxins. Well, I'm here on behalf of my 15 children as a member of one of those communities, 16 and I'm urging you to implement and strengthen this 17 rule. Indeed, the rule does not go far enough. 18 The vast majority of emissions from this sector 19 will come from sources now in existence. 20 Existing sources simply must be 21 targeted for improvements in addition to new 22 sources. I also ask you to extend the regulations 23 to compressors and well sites. MG and Lulu have 24 friends who live very near a well site with a 25 compressor. A briny, offensive odor is present

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 253 1 there. Our friends have regular nosebleeds that 2 only occurred once fracking and the compressor 3 moved in next door. 4 In ten years, this rule will reduce 5 emissions by 400,000 tons of methane. There is no 6 magic bullet for climate change, but this will be 7 an important piece of the solution as we work to 8 leave all of our children a secure and liveable 9 planet. 10 A study in the New England Journal of 11Medicine this year showed that cleaner air means 12 healthier lungs for children. In ten years, the 13 rule will reduce emissions by 180,000 tons of VOC 14 and 2,500 tons of HAP. In ten years, MG will be 17 15 and Lulu will be 13. Across those ten years, they 16will each draw nine million breaths of air. 17 Whatever is in the air is going to fill their lungs 18 and be absorbed in their blood, so what's going to 19 be in the air? I want you to imagine you're 20 holding the lungs of your children in your hands 21because in some sense you're doing just that. It's 22my job to keep my kids safe, but I can't do it 23 alone especially in a state that favors polluters 24 over parents. 25 I need your help. I need you to go

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 254 1 back to Washington, DC, and tell them the people in 2 the gas patch are watching and we're hoping. Tell 3 them about MG and Lulu. Tell them about all their 4 friends, all of their friends and the millions of 5 breaths they're going to take, and remind them that 6 they are deciding what will go into the bodies of 7 children and tell them to do the right thing. 8 Thank you. 9 (Applause was heard.) 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Are there 11 any questions? 12 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you. 13 MR. THOMPSON: Thanks very much. 14 MR. RINKLEFF: It's Rinkleff. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 16 MR. RINKLEFF: Well, you know, I find 17 this situation a little frustrating. I know people 18who have spent five to six years of their lives 19 essentially wasted on this issue. They should be 20 doing something else with their time. Instead, 21 they have to come here and talk to you when you, 22 frankly, should be going to Congress and making 23 some very clear points. 24 Today, I'm supposed to thank you for 25 finally turning your attention to methane, and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 255 1 that's certainly an issue. It's a potent 2 greenhouse gas. The science is really clear on 3 that, and there's a real problem in this world. 4 The U.K. Ministry of Defence has estimated that the 5 effect of climate change in the foreseeable future 6 will be the equivalent of, at the very least, a 7 limited nuclear war. They're estimating 100 8 million to 1 billion refugees streaming out of 9 Bangladesh, Micronesia, the Philippines, Indonesia. 10 Where are those people going to? Why is the City 11 of Denton being forced to contribute and worsen the 12 environmental presence in this world? 13 The people of Denton, two-thirds of 14 the community, said, no, we don't want methane 15 emissions to continue increasing. Why doesn't the 16 EPA turn around and say, do you know what, a 17 community has a right to say no, and enough is 18 enough? There's a nice little chart here. It's an 19 exponential growth curve. In 2007, there were 27 20 wells in Pennsylvania. By 2011, there were 2,000. 21 In the foreseeable future, there could be 60,000. 22 Even if -- even if fracking is safe to 23punch a hole through the aquifer and go down below 24 and cause an explosion, even if that's 25 scientifically safe, there's a statistical

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 256 1 percentage chance that there's going to be a 2 problem. I believe in Denton city limits alone, I 3 mean, maybe I'm wrong, it sounds ridiculous, but I 4 heard there's a thousand wells. That's a lot. 5 Mistakes are inevitable. I read your 1,000 page 6 EPA analysis on fracking. You were very clear that 7 there's been negative environmental impacts, and 8 you're also very clear that you don't -- you don't 9 really know how severe the problem is. I saw that 10 over and over. There is not enough data. We 11 cannot estimate. We cannot come to a conclusion. 12 There's -- there's -- I think -- I 13 think 671 chemicals in fracking fluids that you 14might have the molecular formula for, but you have 15 not done any kind of study to figure out how will 16 that migrate through the environment. How will 17 that interact in other chemicals and transform into 18 a third chemical and how will that cause a 19 long-term environmental impact on a community? You 20 don't know, and I appreciate -- I appreciate the 21honesty in that report, but what I -- what I am 22 confused about is the conclusion. 23 Like, if I'm going to do something and 24 I'm, like, I don't know if that's safe, how can I 25 then turn around and say this community right here

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 257 1 that voted that they don't think it's safe, they 2 must -- they must participate when I -- when I have 3 clearly drawn a scientific conclusion that I don't 4 have enough evidence to conclude it's safe and I do 5 have enough evidence to conclude if it's not done 6 properly, there's going to be a problem. 7 You said in the report that spills are 8 common. They're not uncommon, and you said 9 28 percent of spills have no known or documented 10 cause, so we don't even know what the problem is. 11We don't know what the impact is, and the federal 12 government should have respect for a community 13 that's engaged in a democratic process and said we 14don't want this in our community. 15 There's other little charts here. 16 Like, you guys should look at this. Like, there's 17 a well. It goes down through the groundwater. At 18 some point, chemicals are going to get in the 19 groundwater and then it's going to come back up and 20people are going to drink it. There's a little 21 tower. There's fumes coming off the tower. People 22 are going to breathe that. Here's toxic waste and 23 sludge, and there's dead trees. It's not -- it's 24not hard to figure out. You don't need a Ph.D. to 25 understand this. An elementary school student can

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 258 1 understand it. Fracking is an industrial toxic 2 process, and it sure as hell should not be 3 conducted within 250 feet or 250 meters or whatever 4 the number is of a residential neighborhood or an 5 elementary school. 6 I -- I just want to say your -- your 7 plan to regulate methane is great, but it's way too 8 little and it's way too late, and I hope you guys 9 take this a lot more seriously. Thank you. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Before you 11 go, questions? Let me ask the panel if they have 12 any questions for you, sir. 13 MR. MOORE: I just have one. 14 MR. THOMPSON: We do. 15 MR. MOORE: I want to ask you just to 16make -- for the purpose of the record to clarify 17 that the study you're talking about was the water 18 study done by the Office of Research and 19 Development that was just released? 20 MR. RINKLEFF: Yeah. 21 MR. MOORE: That's what I thought you 22were referring to. 23 MR. THOMPSON: All right. Thank you. 24 At this time, I'd like to invite Mary 25 Warren and Kelli Barr to please come forward.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 259 1 MS. WARREN: Hello. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Hello. 3 MS. WARREN: Thank you all for being 4 here, and I really appreciate your attentiveness 5 and your respect. It's been a long day, and for 6 you to give as much attention to each speaker, I 7 know it really requires a commitment on your part. 8 Thank you for giving us this opportunity to speak 9 to this in Dallas today. My name is Mary Warren, 10 and I am coming just as a private citizen. I am a 11member of Organizing for Action, and my specialty 12 there is on climate change, and I was also a member 13 of the team in Dallas, a coalition of groups that 14 fought for a fracking ordinance to protect us here 15 in Dallas. 16 Yes, I do want the proposed 17 regulations on methane emissions from oil and gas 18production. Our climate is changing much faster 19 than climate scientists have predicted. The window 20 on which we can preserve our climate is closing 21 fast. These regulations and more limitations on 22 greenhouse gas production have been needed for 23 decades. We are really in crunch time. I am 24begging the EPA to greatly accelerate our country's 25 diminishment of fossil fuel use and production. We

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 260 1 don't have time to go easy on the oil and gas 2 industry, and I say that coming from an oil and gas 3 family. 4 I was born in Southern Louisiana. My 5 father worked for the oil and gas industry, and we 6 moved to Houston, and he worked for it there; and 7 my husband's father was an independent producer, 8 and so I'm really immersed in that industry and 9 that culture, and, you know, looking at it, it's 10 very clear to me that we can't do this anymore. It 11 just doesn't make sense. And jobs come from all 12 kinds of industry. Our country's infrastructure 13 repair and rebuilding for renewal fuels would 14 continue to generate and maintain jobs. 15 Right now, a man is going to prison 16 for selling peanuts that were poisoned with 17pathogens. Why are you allowing fossil fuels to 18poison our air and water and greatly contribute to 19 dramatic climate change? It seems things are out 20 of balance. This man was responsible for many 21 deaths, however, oil and gas industry is working 22 towards making it impossible for human life at all. 23 Here in Texas, there's no effective 24 state and local government regulation of oil and 25 gas production and delivery. Our state government

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 261 1 has sold its soul to the oil and gas industry, and 2 they have passed laws to prevent local governments 3 from protecting us. We must have national 4 regulations to prevent the rapid poisoning of our 5 air and water and the destruction of our land. I 6 don't know if you've ever flown over much of Texas, 7 but it is just horrifying to see the moonscape of 8 so many fracking sites. We need tight enforcement 9 of these regulations. Self-reporting would be 10 useless and deadly. My experience in the oil 11 industry is that there's a culture of pride in 12 conning people and not paying attention to rules 13 and bragging later about we tricked those guys. 14 Please adopt these regulations and 15make them even broader and more strict, 16particularly I'm worried about the existing 17 infrastructure and also leakage from compressor 18 stations. There has been a lot of talk about 19 establishing compressor stations through the middle 20 of Dallas and pipelines, and so that would affect 21 us directly. We will be anxiously anticipating 22 additional regulations and -- that will protect us 23 in the next year. Please do everything you can to 24 ensure that human life can continue on this planet, 25 and I'll do my part, too. Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 262 1 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Are there 2 any questions or comments? 3 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you very much. 4 (Applause was heard.) 5 MR. THOMPSON: Kelli Barr. Good 6 afternoon. 7 MS. BARR: I'm hobbling over here. 8 MR. THOMPSON: I saw you got a head 9 start. Thank you for coming. 10 MS. BARR: Thanks. Hi. My name is 11 Kelli Barr, K-e-l-l-i, B-a-r-r. Thanks. I am a 12 resident of Denton. I'm actually a Texas native, 13 but I've been something of an ex-pat from the great 14 state of Texas for most of my life, but I returned 15 about five years ago to Denton to study philosophy 16 at the University of North Texas, and my specific 17 interests are in philosophy from a policy 18 standpoint, so I've been following the issue of 19 fracking with great interest from as someone who 20 lives in Denton but also as someone who is 21 interested in environmental degradation and studies 22 in biodiversification and also studies in 23philosophy and public policy. 24 So my comment is not really going to 25be about the technical requirements and the rules

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 263 1 and the decisions that you're debating. My 2 comments more are going to be about the story of 3 Denton. I think what's been happening to us over 4 the last five years or so and probably longer is 5 really indicative for y'all and the role that 6 federal agencies like EPA can play in protecting 7 people who live in places like Denton. 8 So I think the story of Denton is one, 9 in which to sum it up, it's really the story of the 10 willful ignorance of the State of Texas legislative 11 and regulatory systems and the willful ignorance to 12protect the health and safety of the residents. 13Now, this is obviously most crystallized in the 14 form of HB 40 which distinctly takes out this 15 clause about community reasonability as judgment 16 for good or bad regulations and reinserts the 17 clause about commercial reasonability, but that's 18 really just a belated instauration of this 19 regulatory regime that overwhelmingly is biased 20 toward an industry that's notoriously secret as 21 that, as your Agency is steadily and slowly 22 discovering, is very -- in fact, very detrimental 23 to public health and safety. 24 So we started in Denton trying to 25 resolve what we thought was a very local problem

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 264 1 with the local tools that were available to us. It 2 was the problem of gas wells being refracked when 3 homes had been built very close to them, so really, 4 the problem in Denton is urban fracking. People in 5 Eagle Ford have a very different kind of problem, 6 but they're experiencing the same impact. 7 So we started with the regulatory 8 environment of Denton to try to solve our problem, 9 and we quickly realized we were not alone in this, 10 which was great, except it seemed like we were 11being thwarted at every turn to actually try to 12make a rule that would benefit the health and 13 safety of Denton residents. 14 So Dr. Rinkleff commented about the 15 kinds of measures -- the policy measures we've been 16proposing. Basically, we did what we could, but 17what happened we did not know is that the state 18 either ignored it or when it finally came to a head 19 and we called for a fracking ban, they actively 20 opposed the democratically -- the democratic will 21 of two-thirds of Denton residents in passing HB 40 22 afterwards, and we were immediately sued by the 23 Texas Land Commissioner's office. 24 So there's further evidence to this 25what I'm calling willful ignorance, specifically

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 265 1 the imbalance between the number of permits granted 2 by the Railroad Commission and the budget of TECQ. 3 I'm not sure if you've looked at the figures 4 lately, but since 2008, the number of permits has 5 increased by a factor of 168, while the budget for 6 TECQ, which is the primary regulatory body in Texas 7 for gas wells -- oil and gas wells has fallen by 8 39 percent. There's really no justification for, 9 A, the fall in the budget, and, B, the cuts in 10 staff that have been made, specifically inspection 11 staff. 12 Another striking example, obviously, 13 is HB 40. The legislature made an end run around 14 our will to not have fracking in Denton and 15basically cut the legs out from under us in being 16 able to ensure our own health and safety, but also 17 another thing like being able to plan our land 18management in the future. It's really difficult 19 for the city to be able to plan intelligently for 20 how to use and develop their land for the purpose 21 of providing for the general welfare, so all of 22 this is just building up the picture that the 23 situation that we're facing right now is one in 24which the accountability -- the burden of 25 accountability and the burden of risk from

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 266 1 industrial practices is being localized to 2 individual citizens. 3 We don't have the resources to be able 4 to bear that burden. We simply don't. Many of us 5 don't have the technical expertise to actually 6 understand how to combat these things. Lots of us 7 don't have the time. I almost wasn't able to make 8 my speaking time because I had to teach today, so 9 basically, our health and safety is being 10 subordinated to a regulatory industry that's not 11 interested in giving us the resources to protect 12 ourselves when it's proven that it's not willing to 13protect us, so I greatly commend you today for 14 finally paying attention to this issue. 15 Thank you, but we come to you in a 16 state of desperation. You really are our last gasp 17 of help in this regard, and so these -- these 18 regulations, I agree, are entirely common sense, 19 but I would also echo some of the comments that 20 have been made by others that the time scale that 21you're considering in implementing them is really 22 not sufficient to actually help us because we can't 23 do anything now that our ban has been repealed, so 24 I would encourage you to look at the time scale for 25 compliance because that's a problem for us.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 267 1 I would also encourage you to include 2 existing sources for emissions because that's a 3 real problem for us right now. We don't have the 4 capacity at the municipal level to actually be able 5 to enforce inspections and routine safety measures. 6 We've tried to get regular air and quality 7 monitoring through our city, but we simply don't 8 have the resources or the capacity to be able to do 9 it. 10 I also invite you -- since you haven't 11been able to do the baseline studies that you would 12 need in order to figure out what exactly fracking 13 does to air and water, I would invite you to come 14 to the City of Denton. Since our ban has been 15 repealed, we're now going to have fracking 16 operations that are going to be resuming this 17month, so if you want to start baseline air and 18water quality monitoring, I would encourage you to 19 look to Denton as a good case study for that. 20 And also, I would encourage you to 21make the annual reports available to the public so 22 that people like me can keep track of operators' 23 track records. If a new operator is going to move 24 into our area, we should be able to check their 25 track record and make sure these people are going

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 268 1 to be reasonable and reasonable operators. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Final thoughts, 3 Ms. Barr. You've exceeded your time. Ten seconds. 4 Closing thoughts. And your closing words are? 5 Would you like to state anything in closing? 6 MS. BARR: Oh, yeah. Thank you. No, 7 I am. I'm sure y'all don't hear it very often, but 8 you really are the last line of defense, so thank 9 you for paying attention to us, and I encourage you 10 to go on regulating with as much strength as you 11 can. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 13 testimony. Are there any questions from the panel? 14 Bruce? 15 MR. MOORE: I have one brief question. 16 You mentioned making the annual reports -- 17 MS. BARR: Yes. 18 MR. MOORE: -- publicly available? 19 You're referring to the annual reports required by 20 the NSPS that the operators have to submit? 21 MS. BARR: Yes. Right. Yes. So, I 22mean, it is a problem that the -- the reporting 23 scheme that you've set up is a self-reporting 24 scheme. Other people have commented on this. I 25mean, we've been living under that for pretty much

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 269 1 the entirety of oil and gas development in the 2 state of Texas, and that's proven really 3 problematic, so I would certainly encourage you to 4 look at other ways of mandating reporting and also 5 verifying reporting other than simply relying on 6 the goodwill of the operators. They've shown 7 themselves not to have goodwill toward anyone but 8 themselves. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. All right. 10 Thank you for your testimony. 11 At this time, I'd like to invite 12 Sister Elizabeth to come forward. 13 SISTER RIEBSCHLAEGER: She can call me 14 Sister Elizabeth. Everybody has that same problem, 15but for the record, my name is Riebschlaeger. 16 MR. THOMPSON: And if you could spell 17 that for the court reporter, that would be great. 18 SISTER RIEBSCHLAEGER: Sister 19 Elizabeth, R-i-e-b-s-c-h-l-a-e-g-e-r. 20 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 21 SISTER RIEBSCHLAEGER: Period. Good 22 afternoon. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 24 SISTER RIEBSCHLAEGER: Thank you for 25 this opportunity. My name is Sister Elizabeth

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 270 1 Riebschlaeger. I am a member of the Sisters of 2 Charity of the Incarnate Word of San Antonio, 3 Texas, and I appear here today on behalf of the 4 congregation. 5 We are experiencing the impact of oil 6 and gas activities in the Eagle Ford Shale on 7 San Antonio's rural and communities air quality. 8 We are here today to join those competent, 9 experienced, and respected scientists and 10 researchers in support of the regulations the 11 Environmental Protection Agency is proposing. It 12 is a significant coincidence that we are addressing 13 these proposed changes in methane emission 14 regulations as Pope Francis visits our nation. For 15many, Catholic and not, he comes in a prophetic 16 role, calling us to a greater moral responsibility 17 for the environment we share. 18 Our purpose here is to support the 19moral and human values represented in these 20 regulations. All people have a natural right to 21 clean air wherever they live and wherever they 22 nurture their families. It is morally wrong to 23 knowingly endanger the health of another person. 24 It is morally right to take action to protect the 25 life and health of others, especially when we

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 271 1 become aware that our actions are doing them harm. 2 On September 17, 2015, a coalition of 3 37 investors including asset management companies, 4 hospital systems, mutual funds, and faith-based 5 organizations sent letters to 32 leading oil and 6 gas energy companies voicing our concerns about the 7 impact of methane emissions on climate change 8 urging them to engage constructively in the 9 Environmental Protection Agency's current methane 10 rulemaking process. 11 The petitioning organizations are 12members of the Interfaith Center on Corporate 13 Responsibility, ICCR, a coalition of institutional 14 investors who practice socially responsible 15 investing and shareholder advocacy to promote 16 greater corporate responsibility on matters of 17 social and environmental concern. Our own 18 congregation is a founding member of the 19 San Antonio based Socially Responsible Investment 20 Coalition. 21 We endorse the following statements 22 and join with ICCR in believing that continued, 23 unaddressed methane emissions are precisely the 24 kind of unsustainable action that must be curbed in 25 an effort to build a more just and sustainable

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 272 1 world. 2 Pat Zerega of Mercy Investment 3 Services states, "The Pope's recent encyclical, 4 Laudato Si, highlighted the importance of 5 recognizing our shared moral responsibility to live 6 in harmony with the environment and prevent harm to 7 communities caused by unsustainable action." 8 Christina Herman of ICCR states, "The 9 health, environmental, and economic impacts of 10methane and associated air emissions are 11 substantial, and there are many cost-effective 12 technologies and services available to business to 13 reduce methane emissions. Businesses that 14 implement greenhouse -- implement greenhouse 15 emission reduction plans proactively will be ahead 16 of the game as these and more inevitable 17 regulations are approved." 18 Danielle Fugere of As You Sow said, 19 "Stronger rules are needed to reduce methane 20 emissions and mitigate climate change impacts. 21 Climate change represents serious and increasing 22 risks for the energy sector, and, more broadly, 23 society -- climate instability threatens business 24 infrastructure, resource availability, supply chain 25 efficiency, and the ability to produce and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 273 1 distribute goods and services." 2 So we're saying it's good business to 3 do even more. We join, therefore, in not only 4 gratefully favoring these Environmental Protection 5 Agency regulations but also in urging industry to 6 contribute responsibly to improved and best 7 practices as morally responsible actors. Thank you 8 for provide me the opportunity of this public 9 hearing. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Sister 11 Elizabeth, for your testimony. Are there any 12 questions? 13 MR. MOORE: No, thank you. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 15 (Applause was heard.) 16 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, 17we're going to take a break. Let's reconvene at 18 4:45. Thank you. 19 (Break was had from 4:31 p.m. to 20 4:51 p.m.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, folks. We're 22 going to start things up again. Before we move 23 forward, I'd like to introduce a new panel member. 24 Lisa Thompson is with the EPA's Office of Air 25 Quality Planning and Standards, and will be with us

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 274 1 for the remainder of the hearing. 2 At this time, I'd like to invite 3 Ingrid Martine and Alan Septoff -- Septoff to the 4podium. Great. All right. Is Ingrid present? 5 MS. MARTINE: Yes. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Take your time. 7 MS. MARTINE: Hello. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Hello. And if you 9 would be so kind as to just, again, state your name 10 and spell it for the court reporter, that would be 11much appreciated. 12 MS. MARTIN: Ingrid Martine, 13 M-a-r-t-i-n-e, and I am here as a citizen. And I 14 am not here to praise the EPA's rules to limit 15methane pollution nor am I here to complain that 16 those proposed rules don't go far enough. I have 17 two purposes and ask you not to take the first one 18personally because it's not meant to be personal. 19 But the first purpose I have is to simply say out 20 loud that I have zero hopes that the EPA will 21protect me and the community -- the communities -- 22 communities I love, the communities we love, and I 23 say that because I look at the stats, and by every 24measure, our communities are in worse shape since 25 the launching of the EPA over 40 years ago, by

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 275 1 every measure except one. 2 For example, 60 percent of our 3 waterways have been degraded since the Clean Air 4Act. In the U.S. every year, 4 billion pounds of 5 toxic chemicals including 72 million pounds of 6 known carcinogens are released into the atmosphere 7 from 20,000 industrial polluters, and just one more 8 fact, because facts don't really convince anybody 9 of anything, but two trillion pounds of livestock 10 waste laced with antibiotics, hormones, and 11 chemicals are dumped in waterways and applied to 12 the land; and this is the tip of the iceberg which, 13 by the way, we know is melting faster according to 14 scientists than we ever believed. 15 And so I've been wondering, and I 16 think many people wonder, the environmental laws of 17 the '70s were supposed to do something real. Why 18 are things worse? The stark reality, 19 unfortunately, is that our corporate rights trump 20 our communities' rights to create communities that 21 are healthy, safe, and where people really can 22 enjoy wellbeing, and so this reality should really 23 trump the myth that the majority of us believe 24namely that we live in a democratic society in 25which we have the ability and authority to govern

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 276 1 ourselves and our own communities. 2 What we're discovering, hello Denton, 3 is that we have a hollow democracy that allows us 4 to determine the height of the weeds in our 5 neighbor's garden but on really substantive issues, 6 we are out of luck. And so what we are settling 7 for simply because we really don't know anything 8 else, we don't know what else to do, what we're 9 settling for is to meet in venues like these and 10 try to regulate the harm done to us. And we tell 11 ourselves that surely through our efforts things 12 are getting better because to do otherwise would 13 have us go crazy. 14 What we may not be seeing is that we 15 are trapped by the regulatory system, and this is 16 really my second point, is that we are on a hamster 17wheel that just keeps on turning. What perhaps 18people don't realize enough is that the rules to 19 regulate are written by the industries themselves. 20 Developers write development regulations. Agra 21business writes agricultural regulations, and the 22 system is stacked against we the people. Think 23 about it. Why would the corporations write 24 anything in the rules that would benefit the 25 communities that might oppose them? That would be

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 277 1 crazy. 2 And I'd like to say, the fox is in the 3 henhouse, and still, we show up here, so what I'd 4 like to say in the last 30 seconds, is there an 5 alternative to transition from trying to limit the 6 amount of poison we will tolerate to stopping 7 corporate offenders by asserting local democratic 8 control directly over them, and yes, there are. It 9 is the community rights movement. I have 10 information here that I can give to the people in 11 the room, and they are used by over 200 communities 12 in ten states, and they are changing the landscape. 13 And while I appreciate that you also 14 are not empowered to really do anything, the 15 regulations, really in the big picture, have 16 failed, and I just wanted to say that out loud. 17And it's not that I don't appreciate the individual 18 efforts and the individual caring because I'm sure 19you care and that you want things to work for 20 individuals, communities, and the natural world. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 23 comments, Ms. Martine. Are there any questions 24 from the panel, Lisa or Bruce, any follow up? 25 MR. MOORE: No. No.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 278 1 MS. THOMPSON: No. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for 3 your testimony. 4 MR. SEPTOFF: Hello. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Hello. If you can 6 state and spell your name for the court reporter 7 and then give your testimony, sir. 8 MR. SEPTOFF: My name is Alan Septoff, 9 spelled A-l-a-n, and Septoff, the first four 10 letters of September, S-e-p-t, and off, like 11 turning off the light switch. And I'm with 12 Earthworks, a national environmental group 13 dedicated to protecting communities and the 14 environment from the impacts of resource 15 extraction, and I thought that I was a cynic and 16 fatalist until I heard Ingrid, who has taught me 17 that I have a ways to go yet. 18 I -- before I actually say anything 19 about my comments, I would like to observe that I 20 am Jewish, and I'm a bad Jew; so that part let me 21be here today, but you wouldn't schedule a public 22 hearing on Easter, and you really shouldn't 23 schedule public hearings on Yom Kippur, either. 24 So with that said, I'm speaking on 25behalf of myself and more than 3,000 members we

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 279 1 have in the state of Texas, and I do support EPA's 2 proposal as far as it goes. The climate benefits 3 and health benefits are definitely worth it, but it 4 needs to go further. Methane and associated VOC 5 pollution like benzene is dangerous from new 6 facilities. It's dangerous from existing sources, 7 too, and that's especially true in Texas. It's 8 true because Texas is home to one of the nation's 9 largest concentrations of urban drilling. 10 People are living with thousands of 11 oil and gas facilities in their midst right now, 12 and it is true that Texas, because the state 13 government has stripped local communities' rights 14 to protect themselves from an oil and gas industry, 15 frankly run amok. In Texas, and other states that 16 are a mature oil and gas industry, existing sources 17 of methane and associated -- associated pollutants 18 are more of a threat than new sources ever will be 19 to public health. Beyond including existing 20 sources, among the most important way EPA could 21 improve this rule would be to explicitly allow and 22 to encourage citizens to take a more active role in 23 ensuring that the final rule is enforced. 24 Once this rule is finalized, EPA is 25 likely going to delegate enforcement of it to the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 280 1 states, and as I'm sure everybody in the EPA is 2 aware, in Texas, that means relying on the very 3 same people that in another recent context -- the 4 very same people that explicitly told EPA that they 5 were unwilling to limit greenhouse gas pollution. 6 And even when Texas regulators claim to enforce oil 7 and gas oversight, its own data shows that they do 8 a horrible job of it. 9 Public information requests reveal 10 that inspectors only visit 50 percent of active 11 facilities in the state each year. So even if EPA 12winds up trying to enforce these rules itself, 13 which would be vastly preferable than the 14 alternative, you are resource-strapped and that's 15 unlikely to change any time soon. So what to do? 16 Empower the people who have the 17 greatest incentive, the people that are most 18 concerned with oil and gas violations, the citizens 19 that are forced to live with them. They are out 20 there. They are living with it every day, and they 21 are more than willing to speak up if they think 22 they will be heard, so that means for EPA to change 23 this rule to create a formal and transparent 24process for citizens to report violations, to 25 require timely action on those citizen reports, and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 281 1 to require reports back to the citizens that made 2 the reports, and to have this whole process be 3 transparent via preferably an online public 4 database that would allow people to download the 5 database based on, you know, company and location, 6 et cetera, et cetera. Because the citizens want to 7 hold the oil and gas industry accountable, and if 8 you make it easier for them to do so, we will do 9 it. Thank you. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 11 comments. Before you go, any questions for follow 12 up? 13 MR. MOORE: No. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Septoff, I would 15 like to say, your comment regarding Yom Kippur is 16 respectfully noted, sir. 17 MR. SEPTOFF: Thank you. 18 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. At this 19 time, I'd like to invite Ron Seifert and Cindy, it 20 appears to be, Spoon to please come forward. 21 MR. SEIFERT: Hello. Good afternoon. 22 My name is Ron Seifert. That's R-o-n, 23 S-e-i-f-e-r-t. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 25 MR. SEIFERT: Okay. I will start just

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 282 1 by simply echoing and speaking in support of 2 everyone you've heard today who has advocated for 3 the regulation of methane. I also will echo and 4 support the comments you've heard today by everyone 5 who indicates that these regulations do not go far 6 enough and leave perhaps the most vulnerable folks 7 still impacted unaffected by this regulation, which 8 is a travesty. 9 To that extent, I want to spend a 10 little bit of time just offering a few observations 11 about what I've seen throughout the day. I have 12 been here throughout almost the entire day, and 13 it's almost without exception that people speaking 14here today are advocating for the regulation of 15methane. I believe aside from a couple of folks 16 very early in the morning first thing, almost 17 unanimously here and in Room B, everyone has spoken 18 for the regulation of methane; so I'm a little 19 surprised that industry, being this hearing is in 20 Dallas and in Texas, isn't more represented. 21 I feel like that must be one of two 22 reasons or some combination therein. Either these 23 regulations don't seem to be very impactful to 24 industry so they're not that interested because 25 they don't go far enough because they will allow

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 283 1 for over 90 percent of the methane emissions to go 2 unregulated in this new scheme, or perhaps they 3 don't feel like this event even is necessary for 4 their voices to be heard. 5 And if that's the case, perhaps it's a 6 systems problem and not really your problem, but I 7 hope you take note of that, and I just want to 8 emphasize that if this is the only forum that 9 everyday people have access to to influence policy 10 and industry feels like they have other vehicles of 11 access, that you take very seriously the input that 12you hear today from folks around the metro area who 13 are breathing the air directly impacted by methane 14 emissions. 15 But also keep in mind that the 16majority of people you did hear from today aren't 17 living in the places perhaps or aren't reflective 18 of all the places in this country where methane 19 emissions are at their worst. I'd say that some of 20 the most cases where people are facing the most 21 direct harm from fracking and methane emissions in 22 the four corners region, in the Bakken, coming soon 23 in the Eagle Ford Shale are largely going to be 24 unrepresented in these hearings. 25 It would be fantastic if the EPA could

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 284 1 use some resources to reach out to those areas 2 where fracking and methane emissions are so 3 intense, where resources are scarce, that are some 4 of the least-serviced communities in this whole 5 country and are going to suffer the ramifications 6 of these new regulations or lack thereof more 7 directly than even a lot of folks here on the 8 Barnett Shale. 9 Let's see. Do I have anything else 10 really to say? No. I think I can leave it there. 11 Thank you very much. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 13 testimony, Mr. Seifert. Any follow-up? 14 MR. MOORE: No. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 16 MS. SPOON: Hello. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Hello. 18 MS. SPOON: My name is Cindy Spoon, 19 C-i-n-d-y, last name is Spoon, S-p-o-o-n. Thank 20you for the opportunity to testify in front of 21y'all. I live in Denton, Texas, also, and I'm very 22proud of that, and I'm very proud of the residents 23 that passed the fracking ban this year. It's 24 important because that's 15,000 people within our 25 own city, not 15,000 people across the country

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 285 1 somewhere. It's 15,000 people within the city 2 limits of Denton voted to ban fracking, so that 3 should be taken into consideration because it's 4 a -- we've already made our voices heard that we 5 don't want to live near fracking. We don't want to 6 live near this infrastructure, you know, and, of 7 course, it's been forced back upon us as you've 8 heard today. 9 I support these new regulations, but I 10 also think they do not go far enough. Living in 11 Denton means that I already live near hundreds of 12wells and pipelines and compressor stations, and so 13 if these regulations don't also include existing 14 infrastructure, it's not really lifting the burden 15 for our community. 16 I think that these regulations are 17 long overdue. Again, I'm thankful they're 18 happening now, but they're long overdue. I would 19 like to see storage vessels included in the methane 20 regulations. I know that they're regulated for 21VOCs, so I don't understand why they wouldn't be 22 regulated for methane. I would like to see 23 compressor stations that are well sites be 24 included. I think they're regulated on their own 25but not at well sites, if that makes sense.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 286 1 I would like to see more frequent 2 regulations, and I would like to see a shortened 3 time frame that industry is allowed to respond to 4 incidents. I think right now they have up to six 5months to report, correct me if I'm wrong. 6 We know that methane leaks are 7 inevitable. We know that they're widespread, 8 fracking is going to be happening. We also know 9 that fixing these leaks is kind of one of the 10 easiest things that the oil and gas industry could 11 do, so why would we not require them to do it? 12 Earlier today, up in that room we had 13 a press conference, and we had a couple of 14different speakers; and there was a scientist that 15worked at Texas A&M University speaking, and he 16 talked about how the EPA already vastly 17 underestimates the national emissions rate, so 18we're already -- even though y'all are taking steps 19 to address this, the numbers of methane pollution 20 are already being underestimated, which is 21 troubling. 22 And the last technical thing I would 23 say is that we really can't be making choices or 24proposing regulations that are -- that are 25 Band-Aids because we are facing catastrophic

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 287 1 climate change in my lifetime, so we have to be 2 proposing actual solutions that go far enough. So 3 like my friend, Ron, I am just going to remind EPA 4 folks, y'all taking time out of your day to hear 5 testimony today, about some of the things I've also 6 seen today. 7 A lot of the people that were speaking 8 today I can't imagine -- I'm not in that position, 9 and thank God. A lot of folks that I saw speaking 10 today were here to testify about their children and 11 the asthma that they have or the nosebleeds that 12 they get or their grandchildren. I know one of my 13 friends, I think she's going to speak after me, 14 she's a high school teacher where there's fracking 15 right by that high school, and she actually had to 16 leave school early today and get someone to cover 17 her classes to testify to y'all. 18 Folks that are -- you know, hauled and 19 busted ass to get here before work or come here 20 after work. This is really, really important to 21 us. We really, really want to be heard. We want 22 to be taken seriously. You've heard over and over 23 again throughout testimony that our state 24 regulators are not supporting us, so we need the 25 federal government, the EPA, to show us that every

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 288 1 single branch of government in the United States is 2 not completely bought and sold by oil and gas. 3 It's up to y'all to prove that to us because that's 4 how it feels like right now living in Denton. 5 I mean, I think that's it. I think 6 that's all I have to say. We need a fracking ban. 7 We want a fracking ban. That's what we want. All 8 right. Thank you. 9 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Spoon. 10Any follow up from the panel for Ms. Spoon? 11 (No response.) 12 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 13your testimony. 14 Okay. At this time, I'd like to 15 invite Jennifer Hensley and Heather Dowell and Adam 16 Barnett to follow. 17 MS. HENSLEY: Hello. 18 MR. THOMPSON: Hello. Thanks for 19 coming. Could you state and spell your last name 20 for the court reporter, please. 21 MS. HENSLEY: Jennifer Hensley, 22 H-e-n-s-l-e-y. 23 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 24 MS. HENSLEY: And thank you. Good 25 afternoon.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 289 1 MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 2 MS. HENSLEY: Thank you for choosing 3 Dallas as one of your destinations. I'm sure that 4you are needed elsewhere. There are so many other 5 locations, but I -- I believe that we are 6 especially desperate for you to hear our pleas and 7 our testimonies. 8 Hydraulic fracturing or fracking is 9 the main concern of my testimony. Texas, as you 10 already know, is drowning in natural oil and gas. 11 This fact has been disastrous from our air quality, 12 and consequently, we are continuously in violation 13 of the Clean Air Act. Perhaps you even saw the 14 telltale smog like just permeates the Metroplex 15maybe on your way in. I'm also from Denton. I'm 16 from Denton, and my friend is there. I was born in 17 Denton, and I grew up in Denton. I now raise my 18 son there, and I teach there, like somebody said. 19 We are one of the most heavily fracked 20 areas in the Metroplex. We have had several 21 accidents involving frac wells, leaks, and 22 explosions, and our town has made the news, I'm 23 sure you're aware, and they haunt my dreams. We 24have nearly 300 gas wells within city limits. 25 Denton is not as big as Dallas, and that's too

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 290 1many. And all of these gas wells lack proper 2 oversight. We -- we have not been trained. We 3 have no safety protocols. Our public doesn't know 4 what to do if they smell gas. There's no number. 5 It's not well known, and they don't know who to 6 call. 7 I don't even know who to call. 8 They're within 250 feet. They're allowed to be 9 250 feet within schools, homes, day cares, and 10 hospitals. The school where I teach, there's a gas 11well on either side, one by the baseball field, and 12 one right next to the tennis courts. And I have 13 athletes that have asthma that's so severe they 14miss class all the time, and it breaks my heart. 15 Some of the new permits that have been 16 approved are right next to these existing wells and 17 right next to the homes where my students live, and 18 this is not something that I wish for them and 19 definitely not something that I wish for my own 20 son. We held the elections, and I was so happy to 21vote for the fracking ban; and I was elated when we 22won, so happy, democracy, yeah. However, this 23year's legislature signed into law House Bill 40 24which limited local control and thus effectively 25 eliminated our ban and also jeopardized over 300

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 291 1 ordinances across the state, communities that are 2 just trying to protect their citizens' health and 3 wellbeing and quality of life and safety. 4 In the days following HB 40's 5 passage, industry declared that they would resume 6 operations in Denton that very week, just days 7 after, just miles away from my childhood home 8 actually, and I was outraged. And so I took some 9 civil disobedience training and media training and 10 every Frac Free Friday in the summer. 11 Frac Free Friday was where we would 12 show up to the active gas well sites on Friday 13mornings and protest, and it was during that time 14while protesting under the watchful eye of at least 15 a dozen armed police officers that I met my now 16 friend and fractivist Sheila, who is a resident in 17 the neighborhood, and her story just depressed me 18 further. 19 Children, of course, with asthma that 20mysteriously disappeared when they were away and 21 staying with family that didn't have fracking in 22 their town, and septic pumps and systems that 23 needed replacing because of clogging from sediment 24 from industry. So while I was there, it's true, 25while standing in the street with my Moms Against

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 292 1 Fracking sign, holding my son only on non-ozone 2 action days, which there were very few, there was a 3 slide, not unlike my son's slide, just right next 4 to me next to a frac well that's spewing a 5 coal-colored cloud of smoke, and it doesn't belong 6 next to that. 7 And so with 20 seconds to go, there's 8 not enough time to tell you -- to tell you that we 9 need you because our local government has failed 10 us, and our state government has failed us. 11 Democracy has failed us. And so we are pleading 12with you, pass everything that you can. It's 13probably not even strong enough, and don't -- don't 14 give any kind of relaxed grace period because we 15 need relief, and we need it now. Thank you. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 17 testimony, and thank you for coming. 18 MS. HENSLEY: That's my son 19 (indicating). 20 (Applause was heard.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: Are there any follow-up 22 questions for Ms. Hensley? 23 MR. MOORE: No. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you so much for 25being here today.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 293 1 MS. HENSLEY: Thank you. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Hi. Good afternoon. 3 MS. DOWELL: My name is Heather 4 Dowell, and I'm from Mansfield, Texas. I want to 5 say thank you for y'all being here today in as what 6 has, I'm sure, been an incredibly long day with 7 five-minute increments of people talking and giving 8 you technical information and sincere information. 9 I just want to thank you for your time with this 10 growing situation. 11 I'm here this evening as an average 12 citizen to express my concern to what is going on 13 in my state and my city in general over gas 14 extraction. I've been expressing my concern over 15 the past year to my city council until House 16 Bill 40 came along and took our local voice and 17power away. 18 That's the day that solidified that 19 the state Texas legislature is run by the oil and 20 gas industry. I was saddened by this realization 21 even though I knew it to be true just never this 22 blatant. There's a true problem here when industry 23 that is unable to regulate itself is calling all of 24 the shots for our state and, even worse, our 25 environment and our general health concerns.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 294 1 I'm here as a concerned Texas -- Texan 2 but most of all a parent. I'm a 44-year-old 3 long-time triathlete and mother of one that has now 4 been diagnosed with asthma in the last year. I 5 have never had allergies or respiratory before in 6 my entire life, and so I was shocked when I heard 7 this diagnosis. And this has only added to my 8 concern with all of the gas wells and extraction 9 around my home. 10 Living in a country or a county that 11 is already in nonattainment and known for producing 12 some of the worst air in Texas, we must watch 13 everything we can do that can add to our already 14 cumbersome pollution issues. We've all seen the 15 science behind everything, behind the cancer, the 16 lung disease, children with asthma, bloody noses, 17 headaches, and worse, death. 18 These are signs -- these are signs we 19 don't seem to be paying attention to. We have seen 20 time and time again we must pay attention to our 21history and learn from it, yet, we're here running 22 frac free as we please with disregard to our 23 environment and what the true environmental impacts 24 are of this action. I would venture to say 25 everybody here has heard about all of the gas

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 295 1 problems and extractions in Pennsylvania, but we're 2 not learning from those mistakes, and Texas is not 3 immune as we have experienced over the past decade. 4 I'm not here to propose we stop all 5 drilling exploration, but I am here to say they 6 need to be regulated much better than what's going 7 on now. I believe at this point, we need oil and 8 gas as part of our energy resources as we do not 9 yet have the infrastructure put in place, but it's 10 coming and not fast enough. 11 That said, we can slow down and 12 install proper and more stringent emission controls 13 on the equipment used for drilling, fracking, and 14 compressor stations. I'm asking the EPA to stand 15 up for all Americans and set tougher regulations on 16 the oil and gas industry and not allow greed and 17money to overpower health concerns, our land, the 18 environment, and our children's future. 19 I'm asking the EPA to address existing 20 equipment out there now and include the VOC CTGs 21 for nonattainment areas into the current D/FW air 22plan. I am asking the EPA to allow my 23 seven-year-old daughter to live a healthy life, to 24make mistakes, learn from them, grow up, and be a 25wonderful contributing citizen to her community and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 296 1 not allow greed to override her chance to do 2 anything she sets her mind to due to toxic air that 3 we know how to control. 4 Thank you for your time and 5 consideration to all our requests for a stronger 6 stance on better air quality in Texas, and I hope 7 y'all have a great evening. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 9 testimony. 10 Are there any follow-up questions? 11 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you. 12 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 13your testimony and for being here. 14 Adam, please? 15 MR. BARNETT: Hey, how's it going? 16 It's been a long day. All right. All right. So 17my name is Adam Barnett. That is spelled Adam, the 18 usual way, and Barnett, barn, B-a-r-n-e-t-t. 19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 20 MR. BARNETT: All right. So I am 21 20 years old and have never taken a breath of clean 22 air, and I've lived in North Texas for all of my 23 life. For the first ten years of my life, I lived 24 in Wise County on a beautiful farm, but as oil and 25 gas development moved all around us, the once clean

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 297 1 air turned brown and began to reek of petroleum. 2 My family and I moved to Denton thinking we could 3 escape only to again find ourselves surrounded by 4 oil and gas development and air that was even 5 dirtier. 6 When I was young, every night I would 7 go outdoors and see the universe hanging in a pitch 8 black Texas sky, but as I grew older and developed 9 and matured, the universe began getting a lot 10 smaller. It grew smaller and smaller until all 11 that was left was a dark brown little smudge 12 illuminated by only a few pale drilling lights. By 13 the time I left my farm, I still didn't know what a 14breath of clean air felt like, but I did know what 15VOCs were and what it felt like to live in an area 16 that was infested with them, and it didn't feel 17 good. 18 So I began to question after all of 19 this as the smog moved from city to the country and 20 into my back door, what really is the point? A 21 common trait held by all of us is a desire to work 22 hard in order to leave something good for our 23 future generations. From where I stand, why 24bother? Why waste the time? What have you left me 25with?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 298 1 The sea levels as it stands are still 2 going to rise, the lands will burn, air quality 3 will just get worse, and millions, probably 4 billions, of people are going to be displaced and 5 die because of this. So bringing it back to the 6 rules, it's not all your fault. Scientists knew 7 burning hydrocarbons were causing the planet to 8 warm, but the oil and gas industry, as you probably 9 know, used their endless resources to squelch the 10 science and fund global warming deniers. 11 The industry has had a disinformation 12 campaign which delayed action that could have given 13your children and my generation a better chance for 14 survival, so I would like to thank you, though. 15 These rules are a small step in the right 16 direction, but we have run out of time for the 17 convenience of small steps. What we need is a 18 giant leap towards the right direction, and the 19 only way to do this is to pass the strongest rules, 20 and in doing so give my generation a fighting 21 chance. Pass them now and include existing 22 sources. 23 Either way, you're writing history, 24 and the pen is still in your hand; so what do you 25want the records to say? Will they say that in the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 299 1 face of the greatest calamity engineered by humans 2 in history you didn't do quite enough to stop it 3 because at the time it was too hard or at the time 4 it was too inconvenient to fight for your children? 5 A man from your time once said that we would go to 6 the moon and do the other things, too, not because 7 they were easy but because they were hard. What 8 you and I have ahead of us will be very hard, but 9 we don't have the convenience to give up any 10 longer. Somewhere out there, there's a 11 ten-year-old boy who is watching his universe 12 shrink. His life is in your hands. My life is in 13your hands, and to add to that, we just had another 14 earthquake 2.3 in Wise County, so there's another 15 factor for you guys. All right. Thank you. 16 (Applause was heard.) 17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Adam. Any 18 follow-up questions? 19 MR. MOORE: No. 20 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 21 testimony. 22 At this time, I'd like to invite 23 Susybelle Gosslee. Hello and welcome. 24 MS. GOSSLEE: I'm a little hidden back 25 there. I'm Susybelle Gosslee speaking on behalf of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 300 1 the League of Women Voters of Texas. The League of 2 Women Voters of Texas strongly supports the 3 proposed emission standards for new and modified 4 sources for the oil and gas industry. We are 5 appreciative of the determination of EPA to propose 6 these standards. 7 The standards cover updating New 8 Source Performance Standards for methane and 9 volatile -- volatile organic compounds or VOCs, as 10 I'll call them for the rest of my presentation, for 11 additional new and modified sources in the oil and 12 gas industry, draft control techniques guidelines 13 for reducing emissions from existing oil and gas 14natural sources and certain ozone nonattainment 15 areas and states in the ozone -- ozone transport 16 region particularly relating to VOCs. 17 Proposed updates to clarify the 18Agency's air rules as they apply to the oil and 19 gas -- natural gas industry. Proposed federal 20 implementation plan to implement minor New Source 21 Review permitting in Indian Country. 22 Members of the League of Women Voters 23 of Texas are well-informed about the need for 24methane standards as well as VOC standards to 25 address climate change. While it would be easier

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 301 1 to implement these changes when the oil and gas 2 industry is flourishing, it is nonetheless 3 important that the industry implement the standards 4 as they go forward. In fact, many industries have 5 already implemented some of them and are leading 6 the way for implementation. 7 Studies in Texas have shown that 8 methane emissions are much higher than the EPA has 9 estimated. One by Touche Howard in the journal, 10 Energy, Science & Engineering, has claimed that 11work by the University of Texas and published in 12 the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 13 has greatly underestimated the amount of methane 14 that is being emitted due to the use of a 15 Bacharach meter high-flow sampler, which in 16previous studies had been shown to exhibit sensor 17 failure leading to underreporting of natural gas 18 emissions. 19 Other studies in the Barnett Shale 20 field have found far greater emissions of methane 21 than estimated by EPA. While we hope that the EPA 22 estimates are correct, we encourage the EPA to be 23 aware of these other studies. There are deniers of 24 the need for these additional regulations, as you 25well know. Some of Texas' top elected government

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 302 1 officials even deny that climate change is caused 2 by human activity in any way. Others wish to 3 negate the need for these standards by indicating 4 how little influence this action will have in 5 reducing worldwide emissions. 6 Unfortunately, the United States 7 cannot set standards for worldwide emissions; 8 however, we can and Texas can, be a leader in 9 reducing methane and VOC emissions so that we can 10 have more influence on other countries attending 11 the conference of the parties of the United Nations 12 framework convention on climate change this 13 December in Paris. 14 The League has a recommendation with 15 regard to the proposed rules. The only way that 16 these standards apply to existing oil and natural 17 gas sources is the control technique guidelines for 18 reducing emissions from existing oil and natural 19 gas sources in certain ozone nonattainment areas 20 and states in the ozone -- ozone transport region. 21As these are merely guidelines, they are not 22 enforceable. We recommend that you propose 23 separate rules for existing oil and natural gas 24 sources as without them we cannot reach the goals 25 set forth in the President's Climate Action Plan of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 303 1 cutting methane emissions from the oil and gas 2 sector of 40 to 45 percent from 2012 levels by 3 2025. 4 These goals would reduce an estimated 5 340- to 400,000 short tons of methane, which equate 6 to 7.7 to 2 million metric tons of carbon dioxide. 7 EPA estimates that the proposal will have a climate 8 benefit of 460 million to 550 million, outweighing 9 the proposed cost of 320- to $420 million. As the 10 benefits outweigh the costs, the oil and gas 11 industry will benefit, therefore, we certainly 12 support this approach. 13 EPA asked for comments on defining the 14 term adjacent with regard to determining when 15multiple pieces of equipment and activity and oil 16 and gas extraction and production must be deemed a 17 single source that is subject to requirements from 18 the Clean Air Act air permitting -- permitting 19program. 20 The League supports the 21proximity-based approach in which equipment or 22 activity would be considered adjacent if they are 23 located in the same site or on the site within -- 24 or within a fourth of a mile of each other. This 25 is currently being followed in the state of Texas.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 304 1 The League of Women Voters of Texas 2 appreciates the opportunity to present these 3 comments, and I have written testimony for you, as 4 well. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much, 6 Ms. Gosslee. Are there any follow-up questions 7 from the panel? 8 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you. 9 MS. GOSSLEE: Do I give this to you? 10 MR. THOMPSON: The lady right next to 11you. 12 MS. GOSSLEE: Thank you for your time. 13 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 14 testimony. 15 Okay. At this time, I'd like to 16 invite Gary Hogan and Gary Stuard to please come 17 forward. 18 MR. HOGAN: Good evening. 19 MR. THOMPSON: Good evening. 20 MR. HOGAN: Thank you for this 21 opportunity. My name is Gary Hogan. I'm president 22 of a nonprofit organization called the North 23 Central Texas Communities Alliance. I want to 24welcome the EPA representatives to Dallas and the 25North Texas area, home of the Barnett Shale.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 305 1 Our area, as you well know, was the 2 birth of the modern fracking technologies for oil 3 and gas activities. The North Central Texas 4 Communities Alliance, which formed in 2010, has 5 aided and helped communities, individuals with all 6 issues of the unconventional oil and gas drilling 7 and fracking in the North Texas area. I personally 8 have been intensely involved with the issue of gas 9 drilling in the Barnett Shale when it came to my 10 neighborhood in 2007. 11 The Barnett Shale is drilling in 12 communities and cities in North Texas in very 13 densely populated areas. Gas drilling has 14 endangered our cities, communities, and 15 neighborhoods as close as 200 feet from residential 16properties, 600 feet from schools, day care 17 centers, and even hospitals. I served on two City 18 of Fort Worth gas drilling ordinance task forces 19 attempting to write ordinances to the protection of 20 the health, safety, property values, and quality of 21 life of citizens. But all too often, I saw the 22power and political influence of the industry get 23 by with their way. 24 We all know the appreciation that our 25 State of Texas government officials have given to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 306 1 our federal government and the EPA in particular. 2 From personal experience, I can say that the Texas 3 agencies, our Railroad Commission and our Texas 4 Commission of Environmental Quality, that are meant 5 to protect these same needs of public safety and 6 health have proven time and again to be more 7 concerned with jobs, economic issues, and the 8 protection of the gas industry profits over 9 citizens' concerns. 10 Everybody knows just recently in 11 Denton, Texas, that 59 percent of the citizens 12 tried to pass an ordinance against fracking and 13 drilling mainly to get the attention of the gas 14 industry, for those same protections. They went to 15 our Railroad Commission. They went to our TECQ and 16 tried to get their concerns addressed. And as a 17 last resort, they went to get a resolution on their 18 ballot to pass a ban to get the attention of the 19 gas industry. 20 The attention we got, unfortunately, 21was that the State of Texas came against the voting 22 citizens in a community and now have passed House 23 Bill 40 which takes a lot of control away from 24 cities and municipalities to protect their own 25 citizens. I find it very ironic that the State of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 307 1 Texas says to the federal government to stay out of 2 our business in Texas, but the State of Texas will 3 put that same authority and onerous -- onerous 4 control over their own citizens and municipalities. 5 It seems like our state seems to talk out of both 6 sides of their mouth. 7 Many of our citizens want and need our 8 federal government's help and this EPA to stand up 9 for us. The health, safety, and future of our 10 citizens, the quality of our communities' 11 environment are more important to us than any 12 relative short-term economic benefits. These new 13 rules to reduce methane pollution from the sources 14 of this oil and gas activities are greatly needed. 15 Our region is already in noncompliance to federal 16 air quality standards for too many years and has 17 only suffered further in spite of any reductions 18 that we've seen in CO2 emissions. This activity 19 which has swept across our nation has had 20 detrimental effects to our air, water quality, and 21we're seeing climate change in spite of the deniers 22who, for the most part, their ideology is purely 23profit-driven. 24 Negative health impacts have been 25 seen. I have seen them myself personally. When a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 308 1 person calls me and invites me to their home and 2 shows pictures of their young children having 3 continuous nosebleeds from living a quarter of a 4mile or hundreds of feet from compressor stations 5 or gas and oil drilling, it breaks your heart. 6 Are you aware, in fact, that in 7 Fort Worth, Texas, from 2006 to 2011, the most 8 prolific drilling period in the City of Fort Worth 9 because we've tapered off now, asthma in children 10 increased from less than five percent to nearly 11 25 percent in five years? That was reported by 12 Cooks Children's Hospital in January of 2012. 13 Respiratory ailments, in fact, still 14 account for 30 to 35 percent of children's 15 treatment at Cooks Children's Hospital. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Hogan, your time 17 has expired. Final thoughts, please, sir. 18 MR. HOGAN: Okay. I want to thank you 19 for this and for coming down and listening to the 20people in the Fort Worth area and the North Texas 21 area. I also endorse -- our organization also 22wants to endorse the recommendations set forth by 23 the Sierra Club. I'm sure you probably received 24 those already, but I will submit them with my 25 comments. Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 309 1 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. Are 2 there any questions for Mr. Hogan? 3 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you. 4 MS. THOMPSON: No. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 6 Good afternoon. 7 MR. STUARD: Good afternoon, sir, and 8 to the panel. My name is Gary Stuard, S-t-u-a-r-d. 9 I'm a resident of Dallas, Texas, 6133 Reiger 10Avenue, Zip Code 75214. I am the chair of the 11 local chapter of System Change Not Climate Change, 12which is the eco socialist coalition for North 13America. I've also been very active in a number of 14 local environmental groups such as Downwinders at 15 Risk and the Dallas Green Alliance, which in this 16past spring were able to get most of the candidates 17we were pushing for who were pro environmental to 18 be members of this city council. 19 I know many others have gone through 20 all of the technical details about the proposed 21 regulations that y'all are looking at to see to 22 enforce, so I never cared a lot for mathematics; 23 and you're probably tired of hearing figures all 24day long, so I won't bore you with that. 25 Basically, for my part, what you're proposing is

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 310 1 good because what we have now is pretty much like a 2 wild west situation out here in Texas. 3 Our government -- the state government 4 is not controlled by us. It is controlled by the 5 oil and gas industries as well as other polluters. 6 They have betrayed us. They lied to us. They do 7 not do their job to protect citizens. They're 8 totally controlled by the oil and gas industry. 9 There is no true democracy in this state. It is 10 sheer criminal capitalism for the fossil fuel 11 industry. 12 Regardless of the health impacts that 13 have been happening in this area, with terrible 14 asthma -- asthma rates for children, worsening air 15 quality in this area, I think now it's even worse 16 than Houston, Texas, and I'm from Houston, and 17 that's saying a lot, as well as people being 18 exposed to carcinogens such as benzenes and others 19 whose wells -- gas wells created right next to 20 their homes, gas wells created right next to 21 schools, and not enough people in the state to 22 regulate. They didn't even know how many wells 23 there were. That's just a small example of the 24 corruption. There is a criminal state being run 25 for the profit of oil and gas industry.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 311 1 Now, of course, all of us would want 2 the regulations that are being proposed by you to 3 be even more stronger, but I will even go further. 4As a climate justice activist, and I don't know how 5many of you have read this by Naomi Klein, This 6 Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate. I 7 would submit this document, but this is my only 8 copy; and being a social worker, I don't have lots 9 of funds to buy books. But this book -- this book 10 and also this one talks about capitalism. Both of 11 them make it explicitly clear as well as the 12 interplanetary -- I'm sorry -- Intergovernmental 13 Panel on Climate Change, we're headed towards 14 catastrophe. You should know that. And if you 15 don't, shame on you. But I'm going to be polite 16 and assume that you do know. 17 We have hardly any time left. Runaway 18 science, runaway climate change are already 19 happening. You know it. You know what's happening 20 in the Arctics, the rapid melting of ice. 21 Greenland's ice base -- ice base is rapidly 22melting. This year has been the hottest year. 23 Look at the fires that are happening out in the 24west. Methane is worse than CO2 and climate 25 change.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 312 1 What has to happen, whether y'all can 2 do it or it will have to be up to us, the citizens, 3 because pretty much we have lost faith in 4 government at all levels because apparently it 5 seems that they're bought out for the service of 6 corporations particularly the oil and gas industry 7 the likes of which Exxon knew what would be 8 happening going back in the '80s, they knew. 9 Their models predicted it, and they 10 lied and have spent millions and millions of 11 dollars lying about climate change and the 12 connection with fossil fuels. If you really are 13 serious, and we are for sure, stop the use of 14 fossil fuels. We must radically get off fossil 15 fuels as quickly as we can or there is no hope for 16you. And if you have children, they will have no 17planet. Thank you. 18 (Applause was heard.) 19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Stuard. 20Are there any questions from the panel? 21 MR. MOORE: No. 22 MR. THOMPSON: Lisa? 23 MS. THOMPSON: No. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 25 testimony.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 313 1 MR. STUARD: Thank you. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. Okay. At 3 this, I'd like to invite Lucille Esteban to come 4 forward for testimony. Good afternoon. Thanks for 5 joining us. 6 MS. ESTEBAN: Absolutely. My name is 7 Lucille Esteban, and I really appreciate your time 8 today. I will tell you something. I actually have 9 full faith in our federal government because 10 there's not an option not to. Right now, I think 11you've heard a lot of science about the regulations 12 right on the table. We know that there's 13 essentially no regulations on the oil and gas 14 industry, and Texas bears almost a third of the 15weight of the byproduct. This is my daughter. She 16 is 12 years old. She was born in the Baltimore/DC 17 area, and we didn't move to Texas until she was 18 about four years old. My son is eight, and he's 19 spent a lot of time with me while I was going to 20 college in Denton; and about a year old, he had his 21 first emergency room visit. He has a fairly severe 22 case of asthma, and it definitely limits his 23 activities. 24 In good conscience, I don't feel like 25 I can stay in an area where methane levels, in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 314 1 particular, continue to be so high and continue to 2 escalate and have no sign of dropping. But the 3 problem is at this point, where would we go where 4 he could comfortably live? It is the obligation of 5 our federal government, of our state government, 6 and of our local government to serve in the best 7 interests of its citizens and not in the best 8 interests of industries. 9 I would ask you to think about this as 10 a small first step toward permanent change. We 11 know that we're not dependent on oil and gas 12 industry for energy. We know that they control us. 13 We know that they're dependent on us, but we are 14 unfortunately being held hostage by them. Did you 15want to say anything? 16 MASTER BRIAN OLIVER: I believe we 17 should change these laws because I limit -- I limit 18my activities because of my asthma. There's so 19much -- there's all of the things I like to do, and 20 I can't do pretty much anything outdoors. All I 21 can do is just do PE and fitness and, like, inside, 22 not outside. Not -- I cannot do a lot of things 23 outside at all. 24 MR. THOMPSON: Before you move to your 25 daughter -- young man, good job. Could he state

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 315 1 his name for us for the record? 2 MASTER BRIAN OLIVER: Brian Oliver. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Brian. 4 MS. BELLA OLIVER: Hi. My name is 5 Bella Oliver, and so as my brother was saying, it's 6 hard because I have to watch him having an inhaler, 7 have his breathing treatments and everything, and 8 so I see around my -- I volunteer. We have this 9 girl, she has asthma. She has to have a breathing 10 treatment because of the air. Right near my 11 school, this morning it kind of smelled not so 12 good. It smelled like oil and other things. It's 13 not really safe for us because we're not -- our 14 lungs are not made for this. It's like smoking. 15 You can't handle it. People say it's okay, but it 16 isn't. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Bella. 18 MS. ESTEBAN: Thank you. Thanks to 19 all of you. 20 (Applause was heard.) 21 MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions 22 for Bella, Lucille, or Brian? 23 MR. MOORE: None of them, but I 24 appreciate them making their statements. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 316 1 your testimony. 2 Okay. At this time, we're going to 3 take a break, and we're going to take either a 4 15-minute break or a break until someone else shows 5 up or signs up to testify. Okay? So we'll 6 reconvene at 6:15 or as soon as someone -- after 7 6:15 if someone shows up to testify. Thank you. 8 (Break was had from 5:54 p.m. to 9 6:26 p.m.) 10 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, folks. We're 11 going to start up again. At this time, I'd like to 12 invite Daniel Melendez to please come forward as 13 well as Harry Davis. And following Mr. Davis will 14be Steve Everley, so in that order. Melendez, 15 David, and Everley. 16 MR. MELENDEZ: Is this on? 17 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir, it's on. If 18you don't mind, could you just pronounce and -- and 19 state and spell your name for the court reporter 20 and then begin your testimony. 21 MR. MELENDEZ: Hi. My name is Daniel 22 Melendez, M-e-l-e-n-d-e-z. I live in Arlington, 23 Texas, 76002. And my reason for coming here is I 24 live four blocks from a drilling rig. When it 25 first went up, the first thing I saw every time I

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 317 1 left my house in the morning to go to work was that 2 drilling rig. 3 Shortly afterwards, a few years later 4 or so, once it had the completion tanks or whatever 5 they're called, compressor stations I think is what 6 it's called now, when I would open my doors to my 7 house to go in either from -- to or from work or 8 just coming in and out of the house, my smoke 9 detectors would go off, not realizing at the time 10 that they also detected VOCs. 11 So they went off without any real 12 indication of smoke coming from the house or 13 emanating anywhere near the house, and I couldn't 14 figure it out until possibly now that that may be 15what the problem was was VOCs from that drilling 16 rig that's four blocks from my house. 17 I have this article from James Osborn 18 that says, "methane emissions from natural gas 19 operations in North Texas' Barnett Shale are 20 50 percent higher than estimates by the federal 21 government would indicate," according to a series 22 of studies published by -- published Tuesday in the 23 scientific journal, Environmental Science & 24 Technology, the finding brings into greater 25 question the validity of Environmental Protection

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 318 1 Agency data showing methane emissions are declining 2 even as natural gas production in the United States 3 boomed with the advent of hydraulic fracturing. 4 The study, which was commissioned by 5 the Environmental Defense Fund and drew scientists 6 from universities across the country, shows that 7 the majority of methane emissions in the Barnett 8 come from a relatively small number of sites 9 probably through a flare of gas and other actions 10 not accounted for in the federal data. Between one 11 and two percent of the natural gas produced in the 12 Barnett ends up leaking into the atmosphere, a 13 finding consistent with similar studies conducted 14 in gas production regions of Colorado and Utah, 15 said Ramon Alvarez, lead senior scientist with the 16 Environmental Defense Fund. 17 This is from the EPA -- from the 18 Sierra Club, 9/14/15. Texas cities, specifically 19 Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio, will see 20 enormous benefits from this rule in the efforts to 21 clean up regional smog. The co-pollutant 22 reductions achieved through the rule and the CTG 23portions of the rule are specifically important to 24 Texas. Texas accounts for roughly 30 percent of 25 all oil and gas production in the U.S., which means

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 319 1 a significant amount of the 7 million tons of 2 methane pollution that were vented, flared, leaked, 3 and otherwise wasted from oil and gas operations 4 occur in Texas, and I'm certain one of them is four 5 blocks from my house. 6 Last May, I ran for city council of 7 Arlington, not taking -- actually being able to win 8 since I was running against the strongest incumbent 9 in Arlington, but I had to make a stand. When I 10 was running -- I was block walking north of the 11 Lake Arlington Baptist Church blowout on the exact 12 same day, and from that day, my health has declined 13 tremendously. I actually had to go to the 14Arlington Cancer Center for two months because now 15 I'm diagnosed with polycythemia and 16 urethrocystitis, which means that my red blood 17 count is through the roof causing me to have high 18 blood pressure as well; so now I have to go and 19 give blood to lower my blood pressure twice a 20 week -- two times a week. 21 This has never happened before, and it 22was really odd; and I didn't even connect it until 23 later on after I put the two together. I went 24block walking. I could only walk for one hour 25which is very uncommon for me because I'm not in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 320 1 the best shape physically, but I am in good health 2 or was until then, so I was taken by surprise that 3 I could only block walk for one hour. I was 4 completely out of breath. I was completely tired, 5 and I couldn't continue. It just wasn't me. 6 Somehow this insomniac, this lifelong 7 acute insomniac -- chronic insomniac who can't fall 8 asleep, can't sleep, wakes up two hours before my 9 alarm goes off, suddenly can take naps during the 10 day, has to take naps, has left work on a couple of 11 occasions because I was just too tired to go to 12work and I had no explanation for it other than 13 this newfound condition of mine which I can only 14 connect to the Lake Arlington Baptist Church 15blowout. 16 Although there hasn't been any true 17medical or, you know, scientific connection to my 18 current illness, I can only connect it to that 19 because it happened on the exact same day, and that 20 was block walking one north -- one block north of 21 the LABC. Thank you for your time. 22 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 23 testimony, Mr. Melendez. And are there any 24 follow-up questions for the panel? 25 MR. MOORE: No questions.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 321 1 MR. MELENDEZ: No questions. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 3 testimony. 4 Mr. Davis? 5 MR. DAVIS: Yes. My name is Harry 6 Owen Davis, H-a-r-r-y, O-w-e-n, D-a-v-i-s. Oscar 7 Wilde once noted that a cynic is one who knows the 8 price of everything and yet the value of nothing. 9 Those who oppose these modest yet essential 10 regulations controlling methane emissions are quick 11 to point cynically to the costs that they claim the 12 oil and gas industry will incur in capital 13 expenditures and loss of jobs. Yet not once do 14 these cynics consider the value of the conservation 15measures, waste reduction efficiencies, and overall 16 lowering of the rate at which we release methane 17 into the atmosphere. 18 Evidently, the industry has chosen 19 their default knee-jerk stance, that any regulation 20 is a bad regulation. We don't need more government 21 they say. We can self-regulate they say. I 22 believe the appropriate metaphor here is leaving 23 the fox to guard the henhouse. Except in this 24 case, the fox is unusually gassy and is likely to 25 kill all of the hens with its copious methane

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 322 1 emissions if we don't get at these regulations. 2 But the irony of the opposition's 3 position is striking. The regulations would 4 require the oil and gas producers to operate more 5 efficiently going forward, capturing more of the 6 gases currently lost to the atmosphere. Less gas 7 escaping means more gas to sell. The EPA 8 estimates, your Agency estimates, that the savings 9 in additional gas captured and sold will exceed the 10 cost of implementing the infrastructure necessary 11 to comply with the regulations by 100- to 12 $150 million. So these regulations would be the 13 right thing to do from a business efficiency 14 standpoint even if there were fewer environmental 15benefits. 16 However, the environmental benefits of 17 implementing these regulations are real and will be 18 significant. If you accept the fact, based on 19 scientific consensus, that human greenhouse gas 20 emissions must be lowered in order to slow the 21 devastation that global warming continues to wreak 22 on our planet, then you must ratify these 23 regulations. 24 Methane, as you know, currently 25 represents about 90 percent of all of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 323 1 human-generated greenhouse gas emissions, a number 2 made vastly more significant because of methane's 3 25 times more powerful effect on global warming 4 than carbon dioxide. The highest most noble 5 purpose of government is to keep the governed safe 6 and happy. In order to accomplish this, the 7 government must play a leading role in safety 8 guarding our country's vast natural resources which 9 are jointly owned by all citizens, the land, the 10 water, and the air. 11 I'll leave for others the question of 12whether or not these regulations go far enough to 13protect us or whether they should or should not 14 apply to existing drilling operations. What I will 15 say is this, ladies and gentlemen, don't turn away 16 from your responsibility as representatives of the 17 government and, therefore, guardians of our 18precious natural resources. Do your duty for the 19 sake of all of us, our children, our grandchildren, 20 and all generations to come. Enact these 21 regulations. Thank you. 22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 23 testimony. Before you step away, are there any 24 follow-up questions? 25 MR. MOORE: No.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 324 1 MS. THOMPSON: No. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much for 3 coming. 4 Mr. Everley, please. 5 MR. EVERLEY: Steve Everley. I am a 6 spokesman for North Texans for Natural Gas. The 7 last name is spelled E-v-e-r-l-e-y. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 9 MR. EVERLEY: Okay. So while EPA's 10proposed regulations on methane emissions from the 11 oil and natural gas industry target a tiny sliver 12 of the nation's greenhouse gas emissions, they will 13 have a significant impact on domestic energy 14particularly here in North Texas. Since 2001, the 15 Barnett Shale development has added more than 16 $110 billion in value for the North Texas economy, 17 has generated tax receipts of more than $10 billion 18 for local and state governments, and supported more 19 than 107,000 jobs, but EPA's proposed methane rule 20 will this development harder, not easier. In fact, 21 Oppenheimer recently stated that EPA's proposal 22 could wipe out energy companies that are already 23 suffering from a difficult commodities market. 24Many of these companies are the smaller producers 25 rather than, quote, big oil corporations.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 325 1 The restrictions on drilling would 2 harm other important industries all across Texas. 3 According to the American Chemistry Council, 4 chemical manufacturers have announced more than 5 $145 billion worth of new investments in the United 6 States to take advantage of affordable natural gas, 7 which is used as a feedstock. These investments, 8 many of which would be in Texas, include expanded 9 production of fertilizers and other products used 10 by America's farmers. 11 Drilling restrictions would also mean 12 less affordable energy, which is a key reason why 13many companies relocated abroad prior to the shale 14 gas boom taking jobs with them. The proposed 15methane rules are also harmful from a social 16 justice respective since affordable natural gas 17particularly helps the poor. 18 In 2012, cheap natural gas added an 19 average of $1,200 in disposable income for U.S. 20 households. Energy savings from natural gas in 21U.S. public elementary and secondary schools 22 totaled almost half a billion dollars in the 23 2012-2013 fiscal year, equivalent to the salaries 24 of 5,000 full-time teachers. 25 Needless to say, the mandates that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 326 1 undermine these benefits are highly regressive. 2 While economic costs are a legitimate concern, 3 they're compounded by the fact that EPA's rule 4 appears to be a solution in search of a problem. 5 EPA's own data shows that methane emissions are 6 already decreasing. In the Permian and Gulf Coast 7 Basins here in Texas, methane emissions decreased 8 by 9 percent and 18 percent respectively between 9 2011 and 2013. Those regions include two of the 10 largest oil fields in the entire world. 11 In one of the most heavily drilled 12 regions of the Barnett Shale here in North Texas, 13methane emissions fell 37 percent since 2011. 14Nationwide methane emissions from hydraulically 15 fractured natural gas wells declined 73 percent 16 since 2011, again based on EPA's own data. Yet EPA 17 justifies this new rule by asserting that methane 18 emissions will rise 25 percent over the next 19 decade. 20 We reviewed EPA's supplementary 21 documents to find where this claim originated but 22 could find no supporting evidence. Although the 23 claim is repeated in the media reports, it remains 24 unclear how the EPA came to this calculation. 25Although the EPA lists combatting climate change as

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 327 1 one of its justifications for this rule, 2 peer-reviewed studies have learned that natural gas 3 has already been beneficial for the climate. 4 Scientists have estimated that a methane leakage 5 rate of below 3.2 percent will ensure natural gas 6 maintains its greenhouse gas advantage. 7 Four separate studies published this 8 year showed a methane leakage rate of between 9 1.1 percent and 1.6 percent. Even if leakage were 10 50 percent higher than some have alleged, the 11 climate benefits of natural gas would easily be 12maintained. In fact, EPA already lists low-cost 13 natural gas as one of four key building blocks of 14 its so-called Clean Power Plan which aims to reduce 15 greenhouse gases from the nation's power grid. But 16 the EPA's goals also contradict each other as the 17 clean power plant relies on natural gas while EPA's 18methane rules will make it more difficult to 19produce that natural gas. 20 Coupled with other mandates from the 21 EPA that could restrict -- could restrict drilling, 22 such as reducing the National Ambient Air Quality 23 Standards for ozone, EPA is trying to have its cake 24 and eat it, too. Methane emissions from oil and 25 natural gas reduction represent only about one

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 328 1 percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. 2 While EPA allows much larger sources of methane to 3 pursue voluntary protection measures, the Agency is 4pushing its costly mandates on oil and gas. 5 This is rather bizarre considering 6 that EPA has admitted that voluntary actions by the 7 oil and natural gas industry have contributed the 8 lion's share of methane emission reductions in 9 recent years. 10 In conclusion, methane emissions from 11 oil and gas operations are trending downward, and 12peer-reviewed research confirms that leakage rates 13 are well below the threshold to maintain 14 greenhouse -- greenhouse gas advantage of natural 15 gas. EPA's argument for the new methane rules is 16 to combat climate change, but the Agency has 17provided insufficient evidence to support why such 18mandates are necessary to achieve that goal. Based 19 on EPA's own data, this methane rule appears to be 20 a costly solution in search of a problem. Thank 21you. 22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 23 testimony, Mr. Everley. Are there any follow-up 24 questions from the panel? 25 MR. MOORE: No. Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 329 1 MR. EVERLEY: Thank you so much. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 3 At this time, I'd like to invite 4 Dewayne Quertermous to come forward for testimony. 5 If you would state your name and spell it for 6 the court reporter and then begin your testimony. 7 MR. QUERTERMOUS: Dewayne Quertermous. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Can you spell it? 9 MR. QUERTERMOUS: 10 Q-u-e-r-t-e-r-m-o-u-s. 11 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 12 MR. QUERTERMOUS: I'm here 13 representing the Fort Worth Sierra Club and the 14 Lone Star Chapter of the Sierra Club. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Hold on for a second. 16 Gentlemen? 17 (Brief interruption.) 18 MR. QUERTERMOUS: I'm here 19 representing the Sierra Club, the fourth group in 20 the Lone Star Chapter, which is a state group. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 22 MR. QUERTERMOUS: Contrary to the 23 speaker before us, these regulations are not overly 24burdensome. They should be a lot stronger 25 especially in the -- in applying to existing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 330 1 facilities. Because methane is very highly potent 2 and a lot of the climate change modelers think that 3 that's the key thing that where things are 4 happening faster than the models because it's not 5 being factored into the models because five years 6 ago, they didn't think it was 86 times more 7 powerful in 20 years. It was more like 10 -- 10 to 8 15 percent more powerful they thought in 20 years. 9 Now it's 86 times. So that means the -- that 10 speeds up the process of climate change a lot. 11 Methane is a very powerful greenhouse 12 gas or climate change gas. There's a lot of other 13 emissions that go along with methane that are very 14harmful to public health that when you capture the 15methane, when you try to put these -- they will 16 have the benefit of getting the other particulates, 17you know, of all of the other things, the benzene, 18 and other stuff. 19 Not doing the regulations is basically 20 corporate welfare. When industries can put 21 costs -- the fugitive methane emissions and the 22 other emissions are costs that are paid for by the 23public, by insurance companies, by the government 24 through healthcare, and by the general public 25 through increased health costs through, you know,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 331 1 emphysema, asthma, and other health issues. 2 This industry, if they can't make a 3 profit doing drilling using these regulations, they 4 shouldn't be drilling. You know, that's the 5 basic -- they should be doing it responsibly with 6 the best technology. This takes a step towards 7 making them use the best technology available for 8 drilling. That's what they should be forced to do, 9 and that's what they should be regulated so they're 10 not subsidized by the general public, by the 11 government, by taxes or costs that they impose on 12 other people. And I could quote -- you know, read 13 a lot of the facts and figures and stuff, but I'm 14 sure you've heard all of that today, so that's all 15 I have to say. 16 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 17your testimony, and let me just open it up to the 18panel and see if they have anything for you. 19 MR. MOORE: I don't have any. 20 MS. THOMPSON: No. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again, sir. 22 So at this time, it appears that we'll 23 break again until someone else signs up to testify. 24 Thank you. 25 (Break was had from 6:46 p.m. to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 332 1 6:54 p.m.) 2 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. I'm going to 3 start again here. At this time, I'd like to ask 4 Jane Lind and Tamika Dickerson to please come 5 forward to testify. Hello. 6 MS. LIND: Hi. I'm Jane Lind. We 7 raced to get here. I didn't even have a speaking 8 slot until we arrived because I have some very 9 relevant stories that have happened this week, last 10 week, and I'm going to try to use this time to 11 share with you what's going on. 12 Okay. On the 21st, on Monday night, 13 at around 11:15, a neighbor called me from across 14 the subdivision, and she said, does it smell by 15your house? She was pretty upset because the smell 16was so horrific, so I stuck my head out the door, 17 just popped it open just a little bit, and it was 18 like knock you over off your feet smelled like 19 rotten eggs. Quickly, I shut the door. I called 20 911 and called the TECQ. I called Atmos. Atmos 21 told us to evacuate, but they also told us don't 22 start your car engine. We couldn't go outside. It 23 was just very, very frightening. 24 I woke up with a wicked headache. 25 Woke up -- my daughter was all dizzy, and she had a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 333 1 headache the next day, so we had health effects 2 from this. I just got a call from TECQ this 3 afternoon, two days later. They finally got around 4 to going out there. Now, I had found out the next 5morning from our 911 operator that they were 6 receiving calls widespread all across the city from 7 ten miles to the south, from ten miles to the west, 8 and in other cities where there was a huge plume. 9 We don't know what it was. I'm guessing possibly 10 hydrogen sulfide. We don't know. I mean, Atmos 11 checked the area, did their survey. They said all 12 clear. They checked their pipelines. They said 13 there were no problems there. 14 The last I heard, the Railroad 15 Commission was going to go out and try to figure 16 things out. The problem is, TECQ takes two days to 17 get out there, they're not going to find anything. 18 Of course, since it's a plume, it's long gone; so 19 I'm really upset with them because our state is not 20protecting us with the air. This is not the first 21 time I have been poisoned in my house. I was also 22poisoned April 11, 2011, from a Chesapeake drill 23 site 1,500 feet from my home. This also happened 24 in the middle of the night. And then last week, 25we've been involved with neighborhood meetings.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 334 1 This is shifting gears. We've got a 2 drill site with undeveloped land, and this is kind 3 of a totally different topic, but we've got 4 undeveloped land around these drill sites. Nobody 5 wants to build on this land because it's so close 6 to drilling. So now they're in desperation. The 7 property owners are trying to sell their land to 8 developers to build new homes right up against 9 drill sites. Guys, we need rules. We need, like, 10 really stricter regulations on what they can get 11because Sharon Wilson from Earthworks came out to 12 our drill site a while back, and we took -- on two 13 different occasions, we took FLIR videos. And that 14drill site with the gas compressor is spewing. 15 I mean, there are actually -- we have 16 video footage of this, so we need help. We live 17 here. Our children are here. Our schools are 18 here, and, you know, to be poisoned in your own 19 home and then for our state to not be responsive -- 20 and we have gone to our city. We have tried to get 21 our city to purchase the right equipment to do the 22proper air testing, and the answer I get is, well, 23 we don't want to overregulate because the state's 24 got that covered. 25 Well, the state doesn't, so we're

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 335 1 coming to you. We're hoping that you will help us 2 out. We really need stricter rules, but not only 3 do we need the stricter rules, we need enforcement. 4 We need somebody, you know, boots on the ground who 5 can respond to the issues when they do arise. So 6 thank you. I have a minute left. Let me think if 7 there's anything else. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Actually, a minute and 9 30 seconds. 10 MS. LIND: I have no preparation. 11 This is all just -- because it's so relative. This 12 is my life now. This is where I live, and the air 13 is horrible, you know. We've got so many kids with 14 asthma, breathing problems, and, you know, like 15when I leave the area, I feel great. When I come 16 back to Dallas-Fort Worth, I feel sick because, 17 like, the air is so yuck here. We need some help. 18 The gas industry has so much money they can do 19 things to their equipment. There are things they 20 can do to make it safer. If they're going to put 21 this stuff inside the middle of our residential 22 neighborhoods, we expect that they would do 23 whatever they can do to make it safer. 24 So thank you for your time, and I hope 25you can help us because we need your help because

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 336 1 the State of Texas is not helping us. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for 3 your testimony. Are there any follow-up questions? 4 MR. MOORE: No. 5 MS. THOMPSON: No. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you. 7 MS. DICKERSON: Hello. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Hello. 9 MS. DICKERSON: My name is Tamika 10 Dickerson. I live in Arlington. I'm a retired mom 11 of four, and I'm not going to be one of your 12 subject matter experts, but anyway, but I do have 13 some stories I would like to share with you. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Sure. 15 MS. DICKERSON: My life I think is -- 16 I consider comprised of two parts, before December 17 the 2nd in 2012 when I thought I was going to die 18 from what I consider was a heavy metal plume in my 19 neighborhood. I was called by my friend who asked 20me to come over to her neighborhood just north of 21me, which is down the hill at a very low elevation 22 to come and diagnose -- you know, help diagnose the 23 smell. 24 So dumbly, I went over there. I was 25 sitting in my car with the window open on one side,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 337 1 and suddenly in -- this plume or whatever it was at 2 this low-lying area, I'm losing my consciousness. 3 I thought I'm not my own, and I remember this 4panicky feeling, you know, just asking God to give 5me the strength to be able to drive away. And 6 somehow I managed to do that, but it changed my 7 life, the way I look at life. I mean, that was 8 scary, that that can happen to someone. 9 Arlington -- there were Arlington 10police officers in the area trying to figure out 11where the smell was coming from. No one could 12 figure it out. It was blamed on compost. That's 13 what Arlington chose to blame it on. It was 14 compost, and this other police officer got really, 15 really sick; and he got mad to the point that he 16was calling me all day long how he's going to sue 17 the City of Arlington because of the health effects 18 that he had. Of course, the spokesman from the 19Arlington, Texas, police department immediately 20 came forward and said, hey, you wore the blue 21 uniform today. You're not allowed to talk about 22 this. 23 So ever since that time, I've taken, 24you know, more interest in what's going on around 25me. The latest event was the one that Jane Lind

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 338 1 was already talking about. My husband told me 2 around 11:30 Monday evening, you need to come out 3 and smell this. And he described it as a very, 4 very sour smell. I went outside, and you could not 5 ignore it. I mean, it was horrific. And like a 6 fool, I walked through my house. I got to the 7 backyard. My husband says, trust me, it's also in 8 the backyard, so I smelled it all around. At the 9 same time, I feel like my lungs are just starting 10 to fill up. I feel like I have trouble getting a 11breath. 12 So after that, I closed the door, went 13 inside, called 911, called Atmos Energy, and 14 finally, because we had been having sewer problems 15with the City of Arlington because of the earth 16moving, I called the city water department. Long 17 story short, after calling 911 and trying to follow 18 up with what went on, I was told that it was a 19 sewer problem in the area. Two different 911 20 operators told me it was sewer problems and the 21water department is working on it. However, I had 22 the whole entire sewer crew show up to give me a 23 report at 1:30 a.m. Tuesday morning to tell me 24 there were no sewer problems. But for two days, 25 the City of Arlington officials are telling me that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 339 1 they had sewer problems. 2 Sewer problems don't cause that kind 3 of plume. The plume was very widespread for miles 4 and miles in Arlington. My husband even went out 5 in his car and was trying to reach to see which way 6 it was coming from, you know, whether it was a 7 nearby drill site. The wind was from the east, so 8 we have no idea where it was coming from. 9 I'm here to share my little story 10 because I support whatever cost it's going to be 11 there to prevent these chemicals from being 12 released into the atmosphere and to impact our 13 citizens. You don't want that for yourself and 14your kids. I don't want it for my family and my 15 grandchildren, my pets. I mean, whether it's 16methane or otherwise. I don't know enough about 17particular chemicals to talk about it in detail, 18 but I'm against releasing all of these harmful 19 chemicals, methane or otherwise. So thank you for 20 listening to me. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 22 testimony. 23 Does anyone have any follow up? 24 MR. MOORE: No. 25 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 340 1 your testimony. 2 Okay. Again, folks, we'll break until 3 someone else signs up to testify. 4 (Break was had from 7:05 p.m. to 5 8:00 p.m.) 6 MR. THOMPSON: Today is September 23, 7 2015. The time is 8:00 p.m., and this concludes 8 the public hearing on EPA's proposed rules relating 9 to the oil and natural gas sector. Thank you for 10 joining us today. 11 (End of proceedings at 8:00 p.m.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 341 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY PUBLIC HEARING 2 SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 3 4 I, Linda J. Webster, being first duly 5 sworn, on oath says that I am a Certified Shorthand 6 Reporter doing business in the City of Fort Worth, 7 County of Tarrant, and the State of Texas; that I 8 reported in shorthand the proceedings had at the 9 foregoing Environmental Protection Agency Public 10 Hearing; and that the foregoing is a true and 11 correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken 12 as aforesaid and contains all the proceedings had 13 at the said Environmental Protection Agency Public 14 Hearing. 15 Certified to by me this 13th day of 16November, 2015. 17 18 19 20

________________________________ 21 LINDA J. WEBSTER, CSR, RPR Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 22 500 North Brand Boulevard Glendale, California 91203 23 (818) 551-7300 (818) 551-7330 (Fax) 24 Firm No. 32 Cert. No. 8106 25 Cert. Expires: 12-31-16