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40–461 PDF 2008

S. HRG. 110–271

RISING VIOLENT CRIME IN THE AFTERMATH OF

HURRICANE KATRINA

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JUNE 20, 2007

Serial No. J–110–44

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman 

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JON KYL, Arizona 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

BRUCE A. COHEN, Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

MICHAEL O’NEILL, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Page

Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., a U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland ............. 4

Cornyn, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas, prepared statement ...................................................................................................................... 44

Feingold, Hon. Russell D., a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin, prepared statement ................................................................................................... 46

Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont .................... 1

prepared statement .......................................................................................... 50

Specter, Hon. Arlen, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania ................. 3

WITNESSES 

Bell, David L., Chief Judge, Orleans Parish Juvenile Court, New Orleans, 

Louisiana .............................................................................................................. 13

Cannatella, Anthony W., Deputy Superintendent, Operations Bureau, New 

Orleans Police Department, New Orleans, Louisiana ...................................... 15

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L., a U.S. Senator from the State of Louisiana ................ 5

Letten, James B., U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana, New 

Orleans, Louisiana ............................................................................................... 11

Stellingworth, Robert A., President and Chief Executive Officer, New Orleans 

Police and Justice Foundation, New Orleans, Louisiana ................................. 18

Vitter, Hon. David, a U.S. Senator from the State of Louisiana ......................... 7

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 

Responses of David L. Bell to questions submitted by Senator Kennedy ........... 29

Responses of James Letten to questions submitted by Senator Kennedy .......... 34

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Bell, David L., Chief Judge, Orleans Parish Juvenile Court, New Orleans, 

Louisiana, statement ........................................................................................... 37

Cannatella, Anthony W., Deputy Superintendent, Operations Bureau, New 

Orleans Police Department, New Orleans, Louisiana, statement ................... 40

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L., a U.S. Senator from the State of Louisiana, statement ...................................................................................................................... 47

Letten, James B., U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana, New 

Orleans, Louisiana, statement ............................................................................ 53

Stellingworth, Robert A., President and Chief Executive Officer, New Orleans 

Police and Justice Foundation, New Orleans, Louisiana, statement and 

attachments .......................................................................................................... 91

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RISING VIOLENT CRIME IN THE AFTERMATH 

OF HURRICANE KATRINA 

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 2007

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, 

Washington, D.C. 

The Committee met, Pursuant to notice, at 10:49 a.m., in room 

SD–226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patrick J. Leahy, 

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Leahy, Cardin, and Specter. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. LEAHY, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VERMONT 

Chairman LEAHY. Good morning. I should note to begin with that 

I really appreciate the witnesses who have flown up here. I always 

appreciate the senior Senator from Louisiana, Senator Landrieu, 

and, of course, Senator Vitter being here. But they were in town, 

and I should just note that one of the reasons this hearing was 

somewhat delayed this morning is that a lot of the witnesses who 

were coming in last night arrived today. 

As we know, when Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans and 

the Gulf Coast nearly 2 years ago, no one knew the extent of the 

devastation or how long it would take to recover from this tragedy. 

One thing we do know is that the Federal Government’s emergency 

response was inadequate, uncoordinated, and left far too many to 

suffer far too long after the storm. What we are now going to examine is not so much all the mistakes that were made in the response 

by the Department of Homeland Security and others, but we are 

going to examine the latest challenge to recovery from Katrina—

the growing crisis of violent crime in the city of New Orleans. 

Violent crime in New Orleans has reached near-epidemic proportions. It has emerged as the most serious threat to its recovery 

since the storm. In the first 3 months of this year, violent crime 

is up more than 100 percent compared to the same time last year. 

New Orleans has lost nearly half its population since the storm, 

but the number of murders, armed robberies, and assaults are on 

track to match totals from before Katrina. In the last 10 days, 

there have been eight more murders, bringing the total this year 

alone to more than 90. 

The murder rate per capita is now the highest in America, more 

than 20 percent higher than in any other major city. At its current 

rate, New Orleans has 12 times as many homicides as New York 

City, 3 times as many as Philadelphia, and twice as many as 

2

Washington, D.C. The crisis is so severe that National Guardsmen 

and State police have been brought in to patrol the streets. 

The criminal justice system was battered by Katrina. We know 

that. It is now strained to the breaking point. The New Orleans Police Department has lost more than 500 active police officers since 

the storm, and that is roughly, I believe, 30 percent of the force. 

The courts, the prosecutors, and police often work out of temporary 

facilities. Only 4 of 11 jail facilities in the city have been reopened, 

and, in some cases, temporary FEMA facilities are even used to 

house inmates. 

In its weakened condition, the criminal justice system has struggled to keep order and bring justice to offenders. Last year, there 

were more than 160 murders in the city, and so far only one murder case has led to a conviction. Let me emphasize that. One of 

these 160 murders has led to a conviction. 

And the problem is not unique to murder cases. In more than 

3,000 criminal cases last year, the charges had to be dismissed and 

suspects released, at least temporarily, where in many cases indictments could not be brought within 60 days, as required by Louisiana law. The overall conviction rate is among the lowest in the 

country. 

There can be no question that restoring order and security to the 

streets of New Orleans must be among our highest priorities in the 

rebuilding effort for Louisiana and the Gulf Region. Unfortunately, 

the response of the administration to this crisis has been too little, 

too late. And while the administration has written a blank check 

for the war in Iraq, a blank check for the police departments in 

Iraq and so on, it cannot seem to find the necessary support for 

those who need it in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast here at 

home. I would like to see the same amount of attention given to 

crises at home as crises in Baghdad. 

Two weeks ago, Attorney General Gonzales announced a new violent crime program in response to the second year of FBI statistics 

showing violent crime is increasing. A great announcement, nice 

press conference, beautiful pictures. They must have spent a fortune on getting the posters and all to go with it. But it included 

no money at all for new State or local police officers on our streets. 

The COPS program has been cut out to send money to the police 

departments in Baghdad. And, regrettably, Attorney General 

Gonzales failed to even mention the violent crime problem in New 

Orleans, even though it is one of the worst in this Nation. 

Over the last 6 years—the administration has abandoned any 

commitment to the COPS program even though in the 1990s it was 

the model for reducing violent crime to historical lows in this country. Again, we will send money to police forces in Iraq, Iraqi police 

departments, which tend to end up just killing each other, but we 

cut out the money for police departments in America. 

So far the largest response to rising violent crime in New Orleans has come at the insistence of Congress, not the administration. 

In particular, it has come from the leadership of Senator Mary 

Landrieu, one of the witnesses we will hear from. We welcome her 

and her colleague from Louisiana, Senator Vitter. In January of 

this year, Senator Landrieu announced a 10-point plan to combat 

violent crime in the region. She laid out a road map to restore the 

3

criminal justice system in New Orleans and Louisiana by giving 

help directly to those who need it most. It is a clear road map for 

success in battling violent crime in cities such as New Orleans. 

Congress must continue to lead on this issue if the administration 

will not. 

Senator Landrieu, I want to thank you. You have helped to provide $50 million for law enforcement reconstruction in Louisiana as 

part of the supplemental bill just signed into law this month. So 

let us hope we can send the signal that we can fight violent crime 

in this country by working cooperatively with State and local law 

enforcement partners. Then we can bring back the vitality and 

pride of one of our Nation’s greatest treasures—the city of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast region—and make it a secure and prosperous home for all its citizens. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Leahy appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator Specter? 

STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you, Senator Leahy, for scheduling this hearing on this problem in New Orleans. The Federal Government has responded, not as promptly or 

as adequately as we should have, but I have had many conversations with Senator Landrieu about this subject in the Appropriations Subcommittee which I chaired last year, and also with Senator Vitter. We have been trying to be helpful. And I think to focus 

attention on the law enforcement problem is very, very important 

and very timely. 

It is always difficult to find additional resources, but the Federal 

Government really ought to step in, in an area like this to help out 

when there has been such a disastrous calamity in the area. 

I have been talking to United States Attorney Letten about what 

has happened, and I am pleased to hear—informally we talked 

about it before the hearing started—that there have been some 

supplemental prosecutors assigned from other areas. I think that 

is highly desirable, and I think more of that can be done. We have 

an enormous Justice Department, a lot of U.S. Attorneys in our 

cadre, and that can be done. I was in the prosecution line at one 

time and had a big office and loaned people. We had a big murder 

in Pennsylvania many years ago, Yablonski and his wife and 

daughter. It goes back to 1969, a small county in Pennsylvania, 

Washington County, and I loaned a group of prosecutors to go and 

help out. So there is a lot of precedent for doing that. 

I regret, Mr. Chairman, that I am unable to stay. We are very 

heavily engaged in immigration at the moment and trying to work 

through the final stages of an agreed list of amendments. But Senator Sessions has indicated his intention to come, so I hope we will 

be represented on this side of the aisle. But I will be following the 

testimony closely with staff and will cooperate in being as helpful 

as I can. 

Thank you. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you very much, Senator Specter. 

4

Senator Specter and I first knew each other, incidentally, in Louisiana when we were both prosecutors. There are days when we 

think that was the better job of the two. 

Senator Cardin, did you want to say something before we start? 

Senator SPECTER. Were you at the DAs convention in New Orleans in 1971? 

Chairman LEAHY. Actually, I was. That was the time when I got 

locked out of—

Senator SPECTER. What was that? 

Chairman LEAHY. We will talk about that after. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator LANDRIEU. And we need you both back. 

Senator SPECTER. I was just regaling U.S. Attorney Letten. Your 

DA was Jim—

Mr. LETTEN. Jim Garrison. 

Chairman LEAHY. Garrison. 

Senator SPECTER. I try to forget that name. I was one of the 

young lawyers on the Warren Commission staff, and DA Jim Garrison had a different view of the matter. 

Chairman LEAHY. He locked us out of one of the buildings. 

Senator SPECTER. Without detailing that, he opened up the convention with a press conference lambasting the Warren Commission, and the Board of the National DAs Association criticized him 

for criticizing the Commission. And when the Saturday night banquet came, we came to this beautiful hotel—

Chairman LEAHY. It was locked. 

Senator SPECTER.—for the festive occasion and we were—

Chairman LEAHY. Locked out. As I say—

Senator LANDRIEU. Please do not hold that against us. 

Chairman LEAHY. It gets even worse. It gets even worse. At that 

meeting I got elected Treasury of the National District Attorneys 

Association, and they said, ‘‘By the way, there is this very large advance we gave to the District Attorney’s Office in New Orleans for 

that banquet. State’s Attorney Leahy, would you please get that 

money back?’’ We eventually wrote it off. 

Senator SPECTER. I was glad we were only locked out. He was 

locking up a lot of people. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator SPECTER. Promiscuously. 

Senator LANDRIEU. It could have been worse. 

Chairman LEAHY. He was then succeeded by Harry Connick. 

Mr. LETTEN. Yes, sir, he was, in 1974. 

Chairman LEAHY. And that is when I first—not that he would remember it. I met his son, who was just a little child. Go ahead. 

Sorry. 

STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND 

Senator CARDIN. Mr. Chairman, I am very much interested in 

the history here and your role in all of this. I thank you, though, 

for holding this hearing. 

Senator Landrieu and Senator Vitter had some of us down to 

New Orleans not too long ago where we could see firsthand the impact that the storms have had on the life of people in New Orleans 

5

and Louisiana, and I tell you, until you have been down there and 

you see firsthand the problems. 

I must tell you, I am pleased we are having this hearing, because 

as I read the back-up material for the hearing, I do not think most 

people realize the challenges that you have in law enforcement. Obviously, the effect of the storm presented additional challenges for 

law enforcement as far as neighborhoods and support systems. But 

when you realize also that your jails were destroyed in many instances, that the people that were responsible for law enforcement, 

not only the police officers but those in the prosecutors’ offices and 

in the defense attorneys’ offices were dislocated, it makes it a real 

challenge for how the judicial system can operate and how you can 

maintain the rule of law and law and order within the community. 

Obviously, the focus was more on displaced individuals and rebuilding the levees and all these other issues, but the challenges 

that you confront are certainly daunting, and I am glad that we are 

having this hearing to see how the Federal Government could be 

more helpful in restoring the type of system that is necessary for 

the people of New Orleans. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

Senator Landrieu? 

STATEMENT OF HON. MARY L. LANDRIEU, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Senator LANDRIEU. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of 

the Committee and the Ranking Member for what you have done 

to date. And I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for focusing this hearing 

on what we need to continue to do as we look to the future. Thank 

you for inviting me and Senator Vitter to testify. 

The disturbing and crippling increase in criminal activity has 

overwhelmed the city of New Orleans and parts of the region since 

Katrina and Rita and the unprecedented catastrophic flood that ensued when the levees broke in and around the city. I would like 

to welcome our constituents U.S. Attorney Jim Letten, Judge David 

Bell, Police Commissioner Anthony Cannatella, and Bob 

Stellingworth, who has really stepped up as president of the New 

Orleans Police and Justice Foundation, for helping to organize a 

community-wide and broad effort to help with this situation. 

In 2006, over 160 murders occurred throughout the city of New 

Orleans, giving the city the ominous distinction of being the city 

with the most murders per capita in the United States. In fact, the 

2006 homicide rate in New Orleans is 31 percent higher than any 

city with the next highest rate. It has been heart-breaking, every 

murder has been heart-breaking for the families, and it has spread 

fear in our community. 

But, Mr. Chairman, this past January the situation in New Orleans emerged as a kind of crisis that shook the very core and foundation of our community. On the morning of January 4th, a home 

intruder shot and killed Helen Hill, a local film maker, and severely wounded her husband, Paul. Paul was a physician who had 

come to the city to establish a medical clinic in the heart of the city 

to treat the city’s poor and uninsured. 

6

When the police arrived at their home about 5:30 a.m., they 

found Paul kneeling by the front door, bleeding profusely from 

three gunshot wounds and clutching his 2-year-old son in his arms. 

Helen’s body lay nearby, having been brutally shot in the neck. Her 

death was the sixth murder that occurred within a span of 24 

hours. 

The next day our local newspaper, which has truly been a champion of our response and recovery, ran a headline that said, 

‘‘Killings Bring the City to Its Bloodied Knees.’’

This event served as a catalyst for organized and renewed community involvement, which for any community is always a challenge under normal circumstances to have law enforcement given 

the resources and coordination necessary to keep crime in some of 

our major cities at bay. But our situation, of course, as Senator 

Cardin has said, is much graver, and as you have indicated, Mr. 

Chairman, your knowledge of our situation. 

As this map shows here to my right, the surge in murders has 

occurred across the city, but it is located primarily in Uptown, 

which is the neighborhood that both Senator Vitter and I come 

from, and the mid-city and downtown area. The red points represent open murder cases; the blue points represent the solved 

murder cases. But the one green point represents the singular successful prosecution, and I know that our prosecutors here will give 

some more details to that. 

This year, as of June 18th, 91 murders have occurred. Given the 

repopulation of the city, if this expands, our murder rate will reach 

as high as 200 this year. In response to this crime, this Congress 

quickly recognized the need to appropriate additional money. 

Chairman Leahy, under your leadership, this Congress appropriated $50 million in the Emergency Supplemental bill for the 

whole Gulf Coast based on a formula of need—not politics but 

need—to direct these resources to the areas that need the most 

help. 

That is in large measure what this hearing is about, I hope, 

today—for our witnesses to talk about how best to use these resources to supplement what is being done on the ground at the 

local level. Among these objectives, these dollars will ensure the 

full implementation of the New Orleans Anti-Crime Plan, which is 

supported by Common Good, the Metropolitan Crime Commission, 

Citizens for One Greater New Orleans, the City Council. James 

Carter, City Councilman, has taken the lead at the local level, 

along with our Federal officials, of which I have great respect for 

Jim Letten. 

Most significantly, the Emergency Supplemental waives the Stafford Act requirement that localities match 10 percent of the cost of 

disaster recovery projects before the Federal Government pays the 

remaining 90 percent. This match has kept law enforcement and 

other public infrastructure tied in a morass of red tape for nearly 

2 years. 

I would like to show the picture of our headquarters. In consultation with our local law enforcement officials, I offered a 10-point 

plan. This is part of the plan, to waive that match. This is what 

our police department is operating in 18 months after a flood. The 

highest crime rate in the United States and it took us 18 months 

7

to get the 10-percent waiver matched and 18 months to get the 

Federal Government to agree that it was impossible for the city of 

New Orleans to repay its loans within 3 years. 

One of the reasons we could not step up the construction is because the Federal law required any money we borrowed would 

have to be paid back in 3 years. We are lucky just to be able to 

have these trailers attached to the ground. God help us if another 

hurricane comes. 

Because NOPD still lacks central evidence storage, which was in 

large measure destroyed by the storm, we are putting our evidence 

in the back of an 18-wheel trailer. An 18-wheeler. I guess if a 

storm comes, we have to roll our evidence room to higher ground, 

and then when the water goes down, come back and continue to 

conduct trials. 

We asked for a COPS grant. We were basically turned down because the COPS program is being dismembered. I hope that this 

Committee can help understand how important helping our police 

department is. That is what this hearing is about as well. 

I want to thank the Justice Department for what they have done with the meager resources prior to this $50 million that we gave 

them, because they did send, at my request and Senator Vitter’s request, some additional DEA agents and FBI agents, and I cannot 

tell you how grateful our community is for that help. And I know 

that my time has expired, but let me just conclude by saying I 

thank you for holding this hearing. While our challenges remain 

large, the people of our city and region are fighting for their home, 

for the safety of our home. We plan to return, we are returning, 

and we need your continued help as we make the reforms and improvements necessary. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Landrieu appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you very much. 

Senator Vitter, thank you for being here. And, Senator Landrieu, 

I will make the same offer to both you and Senator Vitter. If you 

care to join the panel up here, feel free. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID VITTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Senator VITTER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, for this hearing. It is very important. I 

want to simply make four simple but I think crucial points. 

Number 1, to state and restate the obvious, violent crime is an 

extremely serious problem in Louisiana, particularly New Orleans, 

and is a leading obstacle and impediment to recovery after Hurricane Katrina. 

Number 2, I want to stop and pause and thank Congress, your 

leadership, others in Congress, and the administration for very significant Federal help to attack this problem. It has really been unprecedented with regard to Federal help to address what is generally ordinarily considered a local law enforcement prosecution 

problem. So thank you. 

Number 3, I certainly want to urge all of us in Congress and the 

administration to continue and even expand that Federal help. 

8

And, number 4, to me this is the singularly most important 

point. What is just as important, I would say more important than 

simply continuing that Federal help, we must leverage that Federal help and demand as a condition of that continuing Federal 

help that needed reforms on the ground in the community continue 

to happen and are followed through to completion, specifically within the New Orleans District Attorney’s Office and the New Orleans 

Police Department. 

Let me go into each of these four points briefly. 

First of all, violent crime, as we all know is an enormous problem 

and an enormous obstacle to recovery. Again, it is up a total of 107 

percent in 2007 compared to the same period in 2006. As was recently reported locally, we have an annual rate of 75 murders per 

1,000 residents. Before Katrina, that rate was 56 murders per 

1,000 residents. So basically we have half the people and virtually 

the same number of murders. It is completely unacceptable, and, 

of course, previous speakers have added to those statistics. 

Point number 2, thank you for very, very significant Federal 

help. Our Federal representatives in terms of the lead agencies on 

the ground are superb. You will hear from Jim Letten, our U.S. Attorney. He has stepped up and his office has stepped up in an exemplary way helping with what are ordinarily State court prosecutions; Jim Bernazzani, head of the FBI office there, a great leader 

who has stepped up and become extremely involved also; $55 million in the June 2006 supplemental bill for crime fighting in the 

Katrina region; of course, a lot of that came to New Orleans; $24 

million in the recent 2007 supplemental bill, again for crime fighting in our area; funding of innovative programs like work with the 

locals to protect victims and witnesses of crime. Witness protection 

was a huge need. The Feds have helped develop those programs locally. Justice, FBI, others have sent additional agents down. Mary 

mentioned DEA. That has been very significant. Violent gangs, 

Safe Streets Task Force, DOJ has started that. That has been significant. Helping to put together a violent offenders unit in the 

DA’s office, very important. So really unprecedented help and 

thank you. 

Point number 3 is, unfortunately, because of the situation on the 

ground, that absolutely needs to continue and even be ramped up, 

if at al possible. And I urge all of us within Congress and within 

the administration to continue this focus and this extraordinary 

help given extraordinary circumstances from the Federal level. 

I know you all are committed to that, and I thank you for that. 

And that was recently displayed in the very recent supplemental 

bill, but I really urge that focus and that help to continue. And we 

have additional ideas for that. A community prosecutors unit we 

have requested funding for. Placing assistant district attorneys in 

each of the New Orleans Police Department’s eight district offices, 

very important. So please help fund these items. 

But fourth, and finally—and I will end with this, and I really do 

think it is the most important point. This problem ultimately will 

not be solved because of Federal resources alone or because of Federal personnel. At its core this problem is a local crime problem, 

which at its core is only going to be solved by proper action and 

discipline and organization on the ground, particularly within the 

9

New Orleans Police Department and the New Orleans District Attorney’s Office. So because of that, I believe the single most important thing any of us can do at the Federal level is use the Federal 

help to leverage and to demand the necessary reforms and changes 

on the ground, particularly in the New Orleans DA’s Office and the 

New Orleans Police Department. 

At its core all of these problems pre-existed Katrina. Now, 

Katrina made them worse, made them a lot worse, put additional 

strains and stresses on the situation because of the destruction of 

buildings and infrastructure and all sorts of things. But that is not 

what is going on in terms of the fundamental problem. Fundamentally, these problems pre-existed Katrina and go to certain organizational and in some cases political issues on the ground. And I 

urge all of us at the Federal level to use the Federal help to leverage, to demand, to enforce the changes, some of which have begun 

or are ongoing, but none of which have been ramped up to completion to demand those reforms and changes that need to happen, 

particularly in the New Orleans DA’s Office and the New Orleans 

Police Department. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairman LEAHY. I find it interesting that, of course, people in 

New Orleans have to do much, but when you have things like cutting out all the COPS money—and that was a Federal program 

that worked very, very well, I believe. Crime came down during 

that time. And I realize in this administration, at the risk of being 

partisan, they seem to feel that if anything came from the previous 

administration, it must be wrong, so they just cut the money out—

part of the reason being that we need money, the administration 

says, for Iraq. But wouldn’t you think that a program like that 

would be helpful? I have talked to mayors, Republican mayors and 

Democratic mayors, from all over the country, and they say the 

COPS program has been one of the most helpful things they have 

had in bringing down crime. And that is a Federal—

Senator VITTER. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have supported the COPS 

program very consistently, so I would support that. But, again, just 

to restate my last point, because in my mind it is the most important, that alone, that sort of Federal help alone, in my opinion, will 

not have us turn the corner in terms of violent crime in New Orleans. We need to use that help, in my opinion, to leverage it to demand the necessary reforms and changes locally. And without that 

happening, I believe the problem will not be solved. But we have 

an enormous tool in terms of this Federal help if we can leverage 

that, use it to demand those necessary changes. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

Senator Cardin? 

Senator CARDIN. Just very briefly, it takes a really special person 

who wants to devote his or her life to law enforcement or the DA’s 

office. It is a sacrifice just to do that. And then to work in a city 

that has unusual challenges, as New Orleans had before the 

storms—and it certainly has been made a lot worse after the 

storms—and then to show up every day and work in a trailer or 

to try to get your evidence out of a tractor-trailer to me is just unbelievable. And we expect people to do this. 

10

You have got to start somewhere, and I do think that you are in 

crisis, and it requires some signals, including from the Federal 

Government, to allow law enforcement to have the type of facilities 

that they should have, to have the type of trained personnel that 

they need, and, yes, we do need the cooperation at all levels of government here. But I do not think this is acceptable to have to work 

under these conditions. It makes it so much more difficult for people to show up every day and to be positive about their jobs. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And let me just add, if I could, that I hope 

that we do not use the need for reform, which is obvious not only 

in the city and the region but in other places around the country, 

as an excuse not to provide the resources that we need to get the 

job done. This is an unprecedented challenge. It is going to take 

unprecedented resources, and it is going to take the focus of the 

Federal Government to help at the local level to get the job done. 

Thank you. 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you very much. 

If the witnesses for the panel could come forward, we will get 

your name tags. We may have a roll call vote here. If we do, I will 

leave and vote but then come right back. Before you get too settled 

in, gentlemen, I am going to swear you in, which is our custom. 

Don’t get too comfortable, Mr. Cannatella. Sorry. 

Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the 

testimony you will give in this matter will be the truth, the whole 

truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. LETTEN. I do. 

Judge BELL. I do. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. I do. 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. I do. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

First off, let me thank you again for persisting. There is probably 

nothing more frustrating, nor more understandable, than flight 

delays because of weather. Every one of us who—except for those 

Senators who can drive home in the evening, Senator Cardin. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman LEAHY. But those of us who have to fly back and forth 

to our homes on the weekend know what that is like. 

James Letten has served as United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana since April 2001. He has been a Federal 

prosecutor for more than 25 years. He has served in a number of 

positions within the U.S. Attorney’s Office, including chief of the 

Organized Crime Task Force and First Assistant prior to being 

named U.S. Attorney. He was the lead prosecutor in the investigation and successful conviction of former Louisiana Governor Edwin 

Edwards in 2000. He was recently awarded the 2005 United States 

Attorney General’s Medallion for Distinguished Service to recognize 

his leadership following Hurricane Katrina. He is a native of New 

Orleans, received his J.D. from Tulane Law School in 1979. 

Mr. Letten, as both Senator Specter and I have said, you have 

got the better job. 

The time should not come out of my introduction of him. 

Go ahead. 

11

STATEMENT OF JAMES B. LETTEN, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE 

EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 

Mr. LETTEN. Thank you very much, and good morning, Mr. 

Chairman and members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I am 

Jim Letten, United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana, and it is a distinct honor to appear here before you representing the outstanding men and women of our U.S. Attorney’s 

Office and Federal law enforcement. 

I am particularly honored and pleased on both a personal and 

professional note to be providing testimony here today in the presence of and along with and to my home-State Senators—Senator 

Mary Landrieu and Senator David Vitter—and I want to thank you 

for the support you all have provided us, and it is outstanding. 

Thank you very much. 

I am also privileged to be here on this panel with three men with 

whom I have had the honor of working very closely on 

groundbreaking initiatives against violent crime in New Orleans 

for some time. I might add that serving as U.S. Attorney in this 

great district is a unique personal honor for me, a New Orleanian 

born and raised with roots on both sides of my family running 

many generations deep. In fact, our family’s law enforcement commitment to this area includes my great-grandfather, who in the 

summer of 1898 gave his life in the line of duty as a New Orleans 

police officer while apprehending a wanted violent criminal just 

about four blocks from the office which I now occupy. Sadly, some 

things do not change. 

It is worth noting that prior to Hurricane Katrina, the city of 

New Orleans grappled with one of the highest per capita homicide 

rates in the U.S. In fact, just a few short months before the hurricane, at the mayor’s Crime Summit Breakfast, I warned that the 

viability and even survival of our city—and I think it still holds—

will depend on the ability to control and reduce violent crime; to 

deter public corruption—which has gutted our economy and contributed to an enormous population, business, and talent drain; 

and to provide a viable, lasting, and top-notch educational system, 

especially for the poor, and also to diversify our deteriorating economy. 

As this city repopulated post-Katrina, particularly beginning in 

the spring of 2006, our office, coupled with our Federal enforcement 

partners, and NOPD have aggressively pursued the administration’s and the Department’s violent crime reduction goals under 

Project Safe Neighborhoods. Indeed, it is this very population return, including individuals with a hard-core criminal element, 

under severely adverse conditions that resulted in 161 homicides in 

New Orleans alone for 2006, with a population of only about 

200,000. 

Now, as of today, there have already been, I believe—and I could 

be corrected by Chief Cannatella—90 homicides in Orleans Parish 

this year—91. I am sorry. In attempting to help address the violent 

crime problem, we in the Federal system place particular emphasis 

on attacking drug-and firearm-related crime. During the last two 

decades, the drug trade—and this is important—in New Orleans 

has largely been limited to low-level street trade, primarily enVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:36 Feb 06, 2008 Jkt 040461 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\40461.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
12

gaged in by young men from poor areas, who either alone or in 

very loosely knit, non-structured groups or gangs sell drugs and 

violently engage one another and settle disputes with firearms. In 

fact, New Orleans does not suffer a traditional structured gang 

problem. In truth, however, the loosely knit criminal element in 

New Orleans is far more difficult to identify, penetrate, infiltrate, 

and control than structured organized gangs would be. 

A population of perhaps 20,000 to 60,000 migrant workers also 

tends to put a certain amount of stress on the State, local, and Federal enforcement in the region. And, importantly, the vast majority 

of the homicides we have talked about and other violent offenses 

must be handled by the local criminal justice system as they simply 

do not fall within Federal jurisdiction. 

But we on the Federal side, nevertheless, see opportunities to act 

boldly where our Federal resources can be brought to bear, and we 

have and we will continue to do that. 

We have made positive strides on the Federal level investigating, 

arresting, indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning many of these individuals. But our crime problem here is a result of a very complex 

landscape, including such factors as: thousands of returning poor 

individuals with inadequate, unsafe housing, employment opportunities, and a huge drug culture; often inadequate schools, afterschool athletic and other opportunities, feeding juvenile crime problems post-Katrina; an unknown number of unaccompanied minors 

and returning drug dealers and violent criminals—and I believe 

this is a critical point—who have chosen to return to New Orleans 

to exploit dysfunction in the local justice system, including a now 

notorious revolving door which has likely attracted an inordinately 

high number of offenders in relation to the relatively small population of the city who, if arrested on local charges, often anticipate 

being released from prison or their bond obligations within 60 days 

if formal charges are not filed against them in that period. 

Some 3,000 of these Rule 701 releases occurred in 2006 alone. 

Disturbingly, according to recent reports, over 2,100 of these releases have occurred since January 1, 2007, despite local commitments to fundamental but critical enforcement and charging policies, which, if successfully implemented, should seriously ameliorate these problems. 

Further, despite a committed reform-minded police superintendent and staff who I admire a great deal, NOPD still suffers 

many challenges, including hemorrhaging of experienced, competent officers to other agencies in cities, a phenomenon which is 

now plaguing neighboring Jefferson Parish; continued shortage of 

adequate jail space for arrested offenders, including for juveniles; 

the need not only for permanent headquarters and administrative 

facilities, so eloquently addressed by our home Senators, but also 

integrated case-tracking technology; and a critical paucity of mental health and drug treatment facilities, providers, and services in 

both New Orleans and surrounding parishes. 

In calendar year 2006, our U.S. Attorney’s Office produced 32 

more indictments in drug and violent crime cases than in 2005, despite the fact that we had only half the population of pre-Katrina 

New Orleans. 

13

In 2006, our charges against serious immigration felons tripled 

over 2005. In total, between January 1 of 2006 and June 13, 2007, 

our office has indicted 356 individuals on violent crimes and firearms-related felonies, with an additional 708 individuals on serious 

drug-related felonies as well. 

Chairman LEAHY. Mr. Letten, we are going to put your full statement in the record. The vote has started. I am going to have Judge 

Bell speak now. We will have time to get his testimony before Senator Landrieu and I have to leave for the vote. And then we will 

come right back, and I have a number of questions based on your 

testimony, which I think is superb. 

Mr. LETTEN. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Letten appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. David Bell is the Chief Judge of Orleans Parish Juvenile Court; J.D. in 1995 from Southern University Law 

Center on the President’s scholarship, established David L. Bell Associates, attorney focused on legislative advocacy, family law, and 

criminal law; elected juvenile court judge in 2004, became chief 

judge in 2005—a meteoric rise. With the support of his colleagues 

on the bench, the New Orleans City Council, and stakeholders 

across the system, he is leading the juvenile justice reform efforts 

in New Orleans. 

Judge Bell, thank you very much for being here. 

STATEMENT OF DAVID L. BELL, CHIEF JUDGE, ORLEANS 

PARISH JUVENILE COURT, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 

Judge BELL. Yes, sir, I will begin by saying thank you for having 

me as well. I will be brief. 

In a nutshell, we need Federal funding. We greatly appreciate the $50 million that you all gave us. But for that $50 million, we 

probably would not be here today to talk about violent crime. But 

we need dollars with flexibility. Those dollars were given for the 

sole purpose of restoring us to the position that we were in preKatrina, and post-Katrina we have different problems, we have different issues, and we need different solutions. We need flexibility 

with that funding. 

Broken windows is not going to work in our community. Eighty 

percent of our windows are broken. You know, zero tolerance is not 

going to work in our community because there is not faith, there 

is not belief in our justice system. So you cannot go into a community and arrest someone, have them released, and then say, ‘‘Now 

tell me who committed that murder,’’ because there is now a distrust of you. 

We need a new approach. We need the ability to allow our U.S. 

Attorney, our district attorney, our judicial system, our police system to work together to create solutions—solutions to our current 

problems, not solutions to our pre-Katrina problems. But we cannot 

do it without your money, and that is just an honest statement. We 

do not have the tax base that we had pre-Katrina. We do not have 

the economic viability that we had pre-Katrina. Twelve percent of 

juvenile arrests are for possession of a firearm. Nationally, it is 

about 3 to 4 percent. They are going to go from my system to Jim’s 

system if we do not do something about it. 

14

Twenty-eight percent of our arrests are for possession of drugs 

and drug use charges. A lot of that is self-medication of juveniles 

due to post-traumatic stress syndrome, and there are no mental 

health facilities there. We cannot fund that $50 million because 

that is something that did not exist pre-Katrina. 

We had a great Weapons and Violent Elimination Court preKatrina that was funded federally. We could not apply for funding 

for that with this $50 million grant because we were already receiving Federal funding, and the Federal funding for it ran out. 

And now our weapons charges are up probably the highest in the 

Nation. 

We have a YAP program, a Youth Advocate Program, that has 

a 91-percent success rate that expires at the end of June that we 

do not have funding for. A 91-percent success rate, but this grant 

could not fund it and cannot continue to fund it because it is a program that we did not have pre-Katrina. 

We have a Report Resource Program that is intensive in community treatment that has a 57-percent success rate for 689 kids that 

are enrolled in the program. We could not get funding for it because it did not exist pre-Katrina. We have one person full-time 

working that program, two people part-time working that program, 

and we have a 57-percent success rate. It is an excellent program, 

and we should have the flexibility to sit down with our police, with 

our DA, with our U.S. Attorney and—

Chairman LEAHY. Basically what you are saying, Judge Bell—

and I apologize I have cut you off before your time is up, only because what you cannot see behind you is some lights going on that 

indicate I have got about 5 minutes to get to the floor. Basically 

what you are saying is not only do you need the Federal funds, you 

need some flexibility. You are not Burlington, Vermont. You are 

not cities across the country that have not been devastated by one 

of the worst natural disasters in history. You need the money, but 

you need flexibility in how you use it. 

Judge BELL. Yes, sir. 

[The prepared statement of Judge Bell appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. We will be right back. We will stand in recess. 

[Recess 11:32 a.m. to 12:03 p.m.] 

Chairman LEAHY. If we could reconvene, Judge Bell, I cut you off 

there because of the vote. Did you want to add anything further? 

You have gone through—I was going to say ‘‘hell and high water,’’ 

but I guess wind and everything else to be here. 

Judge BELL. No, sir. I think you got the gist. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

I hope you understand, you and Mr. Letten and the others, those 

of us who have even looked at—whether we have been in law enforcement or education or anything else, just cannot get around the 

staggering numbers of what you have to do. 

Deputy Superintendent Anthony Cannatella is a third-generation 

police officer, and correct me, Superintendent, if I am wrong, on the 

New Orleans police force for over 40 years. He was on duty and 

commanding the police response during and after Hurricane 

Katrina, commands the Operations Bureau where he is responsible 

for supervising more than 1,000 of the police force’s 1,200 officers, 

15

including the SWAT, Tactical, and Mounted K–9 units, the Traffic 

Division, 

and all the city’s eight police districts. 

Superintendent Cannatella, please go ahead, sir. 

STATEMENT OF ANTHONY W. CANNATELLA, DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT, OPERATIONS BUREAU, NEW ORLEANS POLICE 

DEPARTMENT, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Thank you. I appreciate being here today. I 

would like to thank you and Senator Landrieu and Senator Vitter 

for having us here on behalf of Superintendent Riley, who could not 

be here today. 

Mr. Letten spoke to the causes of crime, and I think everybody 

is well aware of the causes of crime in New Orleans, so I will skip 

through that, and we will get into the problems that the New Orleans Police Department is faced with. 

At the present time, we lost so far 217 officers in 2005 since 

Katrina—that is post-Katrina—and 216 in 2006. As of June 18 of 

this year, we have already lost 72 officers. We just graduated a Police Academy class of 44 officers that are in their beginning stages 

of field training. We have an academy class currently with 45 recruits, and we have a second class we are trying to put together 

that should have 50 recruits. Our 2005 high employee was 1,741 

officers. We are down at this time 505 police officers until those 

two recruit classes graduate. 

Given the losses that we suffer continually, when those classes 

graduate, we will still be down 541 police officers. At the current 

time, we are patrolling the city of New Orleans with approximately 

1,200 officers, and we are losing 30 percent of our force a year. And 

the reasons range from working conditions, loss of buildings, infrastructure in the department, living conditions. Eight hundred police officers of the New Orleans Police Department lost everything 

they owned in Hurricane Katrina. Those officers’ families are 

spread out—most of them still are spread out all over the United 

States. Due to some tremendous efforts of the New Orleans Police 

and Justice Foundation to secure low-interest loans, several of our 

officers have been able to purchase homes and move back in. But 

at this time, we still probably have 500 police officers that are not 

living in homes. They are living in FEMA trailers. And they are 

living spread out. We had to drop our domicile requirement and 

allow our police officers to live anywhere they could find a house. 

We have officers that actually live in Mississippi that are traveling 

daily from Gulfport, areas right outside of Gulfport and 

Diamondhead, Mississippi. 

Chairman LEAHY. How far is that? 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Ninety miles, a hundred miles. Twice a day. 

Chairman LEAHY. And then put in their regular shift once they 

get there. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Yes, sir. And excuse me if I skip around, because to me reading just does not always say it. I am an old street 

cop. 

Chairman LEAHY. You are saying it pretty well. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Thank you. I am an old street cop, and I would 

rather just get to the heart of the subject. 

16

Besides that, we lost over 300 of our police cars in Katrina that 

were flooded. FEMA has replaced approximately 200 of those police 

cars. With the city’s finances being what they are and not back up 

to strength, we have not replaced the fleet that we were able to 

save in Katrina. So the average age of our police vehicles is 7 and 

8 years old. We are driving police cars, Senator, that have over 

175,000, 200,000 miles. 

All of this coupled together, you know, people keep asking me, 

‘‘What is the one thing we could do, Chief, to get your department 

back up and running?’’ And there is no one thing. It is a lot of 

things. It is getting our officers back in standard housing. It is raising pay to competitive levels, because every police department for 

500 miles around the city of New Orleans is in our pond fishing. 

The hurricane had not left the city yet, and we had several police 

departments from the surrounding States that were recruiting our 

officers away from us. 

The officers’ families are spread out all over the United States. 

They have to take vacation days to visit their families, you know, 

once a month, if they are lucky. And when they go to these other 

cities and find out that their wives, or in some cases husbands, 

have better jobs in those communities, better schools, housing, and 

the police chief there is holding out the cash, the of course, is saying, you know, ‘‘I think I need to stay here with my wife,’’ or like 

I said, some husbands. And we are losing them that way. We have 

no way to retain our police officers, and as you know, that 10-year 

period of a police officer’s career, that is the make-or-break point. 

To us, your veteran officers, 10 years, and those are the ones we 

are losing and we are not getting them back. 

I really think that—and the buildings, we are still working to 

this day—New Orleans police headquarters just started being repaired. Twenty-two months after Katrina, we are still working—all 

the bureau chiefs and the superintendent are working out of FEMA 

trailers. Our special operations, tactical, SWAT, traffic is working 

out of FEMA trailers. We have three police stations working out of 

FEMA trailers. That is actually police districts. Our crime lab just 

got up to 50-percent strength by renting some lab space from the 

University of New Orleans. 

To me—and I think Judge Bell will champion this—one of the 

telling problems we have, the New Orleans Police Department Juvenile Division was housed in police headquarters, and it had cells 

for juvenile arrests. Now juvenile prisoners that we arrest are actually booked in a FEMA trailer and released to their parents. Recently, we had a 14-year-old female juvenile that committed an 

armed robbery with a gun. We had to assign two female police officers to guard her over the weekend until she could be brought in 

on Monday for a detention hearing. At that point she had to be released back to her parents. This is an armed robber that stuck a 

gun in a tourist’s face and robbed him. We have no place to book 

juveniles, and Judge Bell has probably 19 beds to assign the violent 

juveniles. So there comes a point where the judges have to decide 

who is the worst of the worst, and those are the 19 males that we 

keep. And unless I am wrong, we still do not have a bed—we called 

it a ‘‘bed′′—a slot to put a female prisoner. 

17

Chairman LEAHY. I understand. I spent 8 years in law enforcement before I was in the Senate, and I have gone through your 

whole testimony, all of which will be part of the record. But there 

must be some days you do not even want to get out of bed when 

you consider all the problems. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Quite a few days. There are quite a few days 

I do not want to get out of bed, to be honest with you. 

I will be honest with you, Senator. If you were in law enforcement, you understand that the hardest thing a commanding officer 

has to do is look at a young officer that is dead tired on his feet 

or her feet, worked long hours, been in court, and as they walk out 

of the police station, the person they just put in jail for armed robbery is already walking out ahead of them, getting in the back of 

a taxicab going home with their mother. And it is frustrating, and 

to drive 80 to 100 miles a day to and from work is ludicrous in this 

country. Again, I do not think we could put our finger on any one 

thing. 

Heroes? You know, my wife asks me every day, ‘‘Why do you still 

do this after 40 years? What, are you crazy?’’ Yeah, I am crazy. But 

you get to go to work every day with a group of heroes that, to 

me—and I have got to be totally frank with this entire country. I 

do not think the New Orleans Police Department, the New Orleans 

Fire Department, and the New Orleans Paramedic Corps has ever 

been given what they are due for what they did for this country, 

because New Orleans is not just a city, it is part of this country. 

And those three agencies saved that city for this country. And I am 

telling you, it was—and please do not take this wrong, but, you 

know, it is the first chance I have had to say this on a national 

level, and I have got to say it. There were no elected officials, there 

were no other government agencies, there were no civil service employees that were doing what the police, fire, and EMS in the city 

were doing. 

You know, people say the sad state of the young people in this 

country. Well, I stand to differ. The young police, firemen, and 

paramedics that I saw, I feel like this country is going to be in good 

hands, because I saw heroes, kids, 20-year-old officers. We had a 

female officer, Senator, that was out of the Police Academy 2 

weeks. She spent three nights on the roof of her house in Lakeview 

because it was flooded. When she was rescued, she helped save 

other people. She finally found a way to call me at my district station and said, ‘‘What do you want me to do?’’ I said, ‘‘Go up in the 

country where your family is, take a few days off, and call me.’’ 

Two hours later, that young lady was standing at my side saying, 

‘‘I am a police officer. What do you want me to do?’’ And she has 

not missed a day’s work since. And she is not the only one. 

Chairman LEAHY. You know, you said that that story has not 

been told. You just told it. And I hope a lot of people heard it. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. I apologize for the emotion. 

Chairman LEAHY. As I have said, I have talked with Senator 

Landrieu many times about this, our staff who has gone down and 

everybody else, and if something like this hit my little State, I do 

not know how we would ever keep the vital services going. And law 

enforcement, the courts, those things are vital services. So I commend you for it. 

18

Mr. CANNATELLA. Thank you. 

Chairman LEAHY. Please, when you go back, tell the men and 

women you command that I am proud of them. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Thank you. They will be glad to hear that. 

They really will. 

Again, you know, we keep hearing about reform, reform, reform. 

Well, let me tell you, the New Orleans Police Department is as reformed as we could make it. We have implemented several reforms 

that we think are going to correct some of the problems that every 

major police department in this country has suffered. We had problems before. We certainly have problems since Katrina. And we 

have reformed our police department. Now it is time to give them 

what they do, and, you know, we stand ready to take the challenge 

and fix the crime problem. But it is going to take money. I hate 

to say that because I hate to be a beggar, but that is just what it 

is. Until we fix our police stations and our police vehicles and our 

fire trucks, I do not see it. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Cannatella appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

Robert Stellingworth is the President and CEO of the New Orleans Police and Justice Foundation. Prior to that, he was the Executive Director for the New Orleans Police Foundation. Prior to that, 

he spent 25 years as a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, special agent in charge for the New Orleans 

Division from 1994 to 1997, holds a degree in criminal justice from 

Michigan State University. 

Mr. Stellingworth, you have been very patient. Go ahead, sir. 

STATEMENT OF ROBERT A. STELLINGWORTH, PRESIDENT 

AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NEW ORLEANS POLICE 

AND JUSTICE FOUNDATION, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. Thank you. Senator, I wish to thank the 

Committee and Senator Landrieu and Senator Vitter for this opportunity to present a community perspective regards the justice 

system and violent crime in New Orleans. 

The New Orleans Police and Justice Foundation is a nonprofit 

501(c) 3 founded in the mid-1990s. Our mission is to improve the 

criminal justice system in Orleans Parish through partnerships 

with a special focus on the New Orleans Police Department. Today 

we are also representing the views of the NOLA Anti-Crime Coalition, a diverse consortium of over 15 community-based organizations whose fundamental goal is to make New Orleans a safer 

place to live, work and visit. 

The foundation was born out of community outrage in the mid1990’s over police corruption and violent crime. Prior to 2005, almost all our efforts were focused on providing business practice and 

philanthropic assistance to the New Orleans Police Department. 

Although this approach had some level of success, we came to recognize the justice system was just that—a system in need of reform. From the $30,000 annual salaries for new prosecuting attorneys to the severe underfunding of the criminal and municipal 

court systems to the high level of incarceration needed by the parVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:36 Feb 06, 2008 Jkt 040461 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\40461.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
19

ish sheriff to sustain operations, the system was at best a fragile 

Band-aid on a major community injury that was slowly bleeding 

the city to death. With consistent annual police arrest rates of well 

over 100,000 in a city with a population of less than 500,000, it was 

becoming obvious efforts to simply arrest our way out of the crime 

problem were not working. Finger pointing was popular with 

judges blaming the DA, the DA blaming the police, and the police 

expressing concern over the revolving door created by the DA and 

judges. A large portion of the community was disengaged, accepted 

the elevated levels of violence and considered the antics of system 

business as usual. Other segments of the community had grown to 

mistrust the police. 

Hurricane Katrina washed all pretenses away and revealed the 

underfunded system and fragile financing structure for what they 

were. The storm also revealed the social ills that helped drive the 

crime problem, social ills that will not be fixed instantly and are 

shared with many other cities across America. With the return of 

violent crime, a reenergized community identified justice system inefficiency as an issue that needed to be addressed. 

Analysis conducted by the foundation has identified a wide variety of systemic issues that feed these insidious inefficiencies. A list 

so long it seems almost overwhelming. We divide the issues into 

three separate areas: infrastructure, human capital, and operational business practices. I would like to take brief time to address 

each. 

Infrastructure has been well documented by the testimony of the 

other witnesses. It is the nuts and bolts of the system. In spite of 

some success, we have simply failed to restore the infrastructure 

needed by the justice system. NOPD remains in FEMA trailers, as 

you saw. The superintendent is dealing with a third projected 

move-in date to their previous headquarters. Police districts operate from temporary space and in disrepair. The DA is in a third 

temporary location with no hard date for reoccupancy of his preKatrina building. Cramped space, I might add. Baseline funding for 

the indigent defender program has all but disappeared due to reliance on traffic fines which are not generating revenue at pre-storm 

levels. The sheriff has been forced to house offenders in tents; prerelease and witness protection programs go unfunded. 

Human capital keeps the system alive. Staffing is down across 

the board due to mandated budget cuts in budgets that were well 

below an acceptable level before the storm. The NOPD has lost 

about 500 police officers from a cadre of 1,700-plus. Recruiting has 

been at best difficult; attrition remains a problem. The foundation 

documented over 80 percent of the officers had significant damage 

to their homes to the point where they could not return to them. 

Some still remain in temporary living accommodations, as Chief 

Cannatella has so eloquently put it. 

There are success stories. The DA starting salaries are now in 

the $50,000 range, and Federal grants have helped to establish a 

violent crime prosecution unit staffed with highly qualified attorneys in the $80,000 range. Over 500 first responders have refurbished or purchased new homes using private sector home loan 

subsidies averaging $5,000 provided by the foundation. Police salaries have also been increased; residency rules have been relaxed. 

20

In spite of these gains, serious shortfalls and inequities in staffing levels remain. Critical interim hurricane grants and funding 

that support human capital resources will soon expire with serious 

concern about the availability of alternative funding. 

Operational business practices before Katrina were under serious 

scrutiny, and it is now generally acknowledged the system was broken prior to Katrina. Basic police/DA communication processes 

were flawed; state-of-the-art technologies and integrated systems 

were not available. 

Post-Katrina, manual processes remain, but with significantly 

fewer support staff, thus creating long delays and inaccuracies. A 

joint effort with widespread participation has been started to automate business practices and information sharing. Senator, I might 

add this is a leap of faith by the various elements to come together 

to try to fix this system using integrated computer systems, and we 

are proud to be a part of that effort, and we are proud to be actually the negotiators of that effort. And there is strong will in the 

community if the funding is there to integrate the justice system 

and improve these services. 

As I have said, the task before us remains daunting, and I have 

touched only on very few issues in this short time. I wish to thank 

you for this opportunity to discuss the crime problem in New Orleans. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Stellingworth appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, thank you, Mr. Stellingworth. 

You know, I look at this and I listen to all of you, and I have 

read your testimony. You see these grave problems with the justice 

system after Hurricane Katrina. The murder rate is worse than 

ever. Police are understaffed and working out of temporary facilities. Prosecutions and convictions of offenders is at an all-time low. 

The corrections system is way below its capacity to even handle 

what is going through. 

This may seem unfair, because I do not mean to exclude other 

things, but let me start with you, Mr. Stellingworth, and I will ask 

the same question of everybody else. 

What is the most important, the Number 1 most important issue 

facing New Orleans in combating violent crime? And what can be 

done? Assuming you could direct the Federal response, what can 

we do? 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. Senator, I have the answer to that question. The answer is to restore faith in the system. That is a very 

complex issue. We must restore faith in the criminal justice system 

in Orleans Parish, not only for the recovery to continue but for the 

people to stay, for the infrastructure to return them to normalcy. 

They need normalcy. We are losing people. They are tired of crisis, 

Senator. They are tired of being in a constant crisis mode. They 

want to get back to normal. Restoring faith in the justice system 

and returning the people and the human capital to normalcy I 

would say would be the Number 1 task. 

How you do that? It is going to have to be widespread reform of 

systems. It is going to have to be financial support. It is going to 

have to be continuing the Federal programs that are there and allowing those programs to take full effect. 

21

Chairman LEAHY. You are saying these people need to get their 

lives back. 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. You got it. And the system needs to have 

faith restored to it. 

Chairman LEAHY. Chief? 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Pretty well said. To me the bottom line is lives 

are just still upside down. It is nothing normal going on in the city 

of New Orleans right now. Again, I can only address the police response. I think the police department is tired. They are worn out, 

they are tired, they have not had a break since the hurricane. November 30th of this year, we are going to lose 300 Louisiana National Guard troops that are going back. We are going to lose Louisiana State Police officers that are being called back. And on that 

date, the New Orleans Police Department has got to stand up and 

patrol this entire city with 1,200 police officers when we did it before with 1,600. 

And, again, there are vast areas that are still abandoned. However, they still have to be patrolled. They still have to be protected. 

And they are still being burglarized, copper pipe and people’s belongings. So the answer is we have got to get our police department 

back up on its feet. 

I think the faith and hope that he is talking about has to start 

with the police. We are the first rung in the criminal justice system. If we are not functioning, you know, the prosecutors, the 

judges, the rest of it is not going to work either. So we have got 

to get—you know, we are trying to rebuild police headquarters to 

what it was. It was a 40-year-old building. That dates me. It 

opened the day I started so we are old pals. Why do we want to 

rebuild a building that is 40 years old? Why not just move it out 

of the way and just start over and just build a new building? 

You know, work environment is a big thing to everybody. No one 

wants to come to work in a dump, in a trailer. And these are not 

trailers built for what they are being used for. 

Chairman LEAHY. Judge Bell? 

Judge BELL. I think each system needs to be allowed to determine its funding priorities. I think that, you know, we cannot—I 

think the chief here hit it on the head. You know, we cannot just 

do what we did before, and we cannot be allowed to use these Federal resources only on what they were used before. We have to be 

able to prioritize our resources and our expenditures based on 

crime patterns, you know, and communicate with one another 

through interagency communications and collaboration so that we 

can attack, you know, spikes in murder, you know, so that we can 

attack—or place services in areas that have high instances of violent crime or drug usage. And we do not have the flexibility to do 

that right now with the proceeds that were previously sent down. 

And I think that is a large part of this problem. When you give me 

a dollar and say, you know, you have to spend this dollar for this 

water, and I need my medicine, you know, the water is not really 

going to help me. And that is what is happening right now. 

Chairman LEAHY. Mr. Letten, you have had far more experience 

as a prosecutor than most people who testify before us here. What 

would you say to that question? 

22

Mr. LETTEN. Senator, while I really agree very strongly with everything these men have said and I agree with the basic tenet, the 

basic premise that was enunciated by Bob Stellingworth, whom I 

respect a great deal, that faith in the system, the local criminal justice system, has to be restored, I do not want to sacrifice candor 

on the altar of diplomacy here. I have got to tell you that the local 

criminal justice system, which focuses mainly around the District 

Attorney’s Office and its ability to prosecute, is only going to win 

the hearts and minds and the faith and the trust of the citizens 

if it becomes efficient and simply does a better job. And I have got 

to tell you that while there are some fine men and women there—

and I do not criticize anyone individually—I will tell you that we 

have fought this issue for a very, very long time. 

For instance, let us talk about the judges. Until not a single 

judge any longer reduces a bond of a person charged with a violent 

felony unless and until he or she actually considers the facts of 

that case and does not do it with a phone call, there is going to 

be a problem. 

Until the District Attorney’s Office is given the type of leadership, management leadership that actually creates, I think, effective organization in that office and implements the kind of 

prioritization of cases, communication with NOPD, and internal efficiency in screening cases and charging cases and preparing witnesses and treating victims and witnesses properly and getting 

them to the table and earning them the credibility that they deserve before the citizens and the courts and the juries, I do not believe we are going to advance the ball. 

I believe, if anything, that everything needs to be fixed because, 

as someone once said—and it probably was not me. I am sure I plagiarized this from somebody. You know, these are like the pieces 

of a clock or the movement of a clock. In the criminal justice system, if one of these entities—whether it is a clerk’s office, public 

defender, DA, or whatever—does not work to full capacity, the 

thing slows down or stops. I believe, however, that probably the 

most glaring issues reside with getting the District Attorney’s Office to actually implement the types of reforms and the types of 

fundamental promises and commitments to efficiency and communication and prioritization that they committed to in march at a 

press conference with the police chief and with Mr. Stellingworth. 

And until that happens, Senator, I believe we are going to have a 

real problem, and I believe that there has to be a commitment 

there to make that happen. I have not seen it yet. 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, that is very similar to what you said in 

the USA Today article that you were quoted in earlier this month. 

I am trying to think of the exact date I read it. Can we help with 

Federal funds in there? And I realize leadership—you do not buy 

leadership. You create leadership. But leaving that just for the moment, what about an emergency COPS program? I mean, Judge 

Bell has said that, if there is Federal money, you have to tailor it 

to the facts today, not the facts of what the organizations were the 

day before Katrina. Would you agree with that? 

Mr. LETTEN. Well, I—

Chairman LEAHY. I mean, you have added—you have hired more 

prosecutors. 

23

Mr. LETTEN. Yes, sir. 

Chairman LEAHY. The FBI, DEA, and ATF have sent more Federal agents to New Orleans. 

Mr. LETTEN. The Department, Senator, the Attorney General, 

has given us—has found in the mechanism of the Department the 

resources we need to, I think, exploit to our maximum advantage 

our Federal jurisdiction. I cannot honestly say that we need more 

assets than we have right now federally. But I will tell you, Senator—

Chairman LEAHY. I am talking about for the locals. 

Mr. LETTEN. For the locals, that is another animal entirely, and 

let me address it this way: 

First of all, in terms of a COPS program—and, again, the Department will have to speak to this—I believe the problem with the 

COPS program would be, I think, potentially that it takes a while 

to bring those individuals on board, and I think also if you talk to 

Chief Cannatella, the problem in New Orleans with implementing 

a COPS program and not another type of funding mechanism 

would, I think portend issues of trying to take out of an already 

diminished police force those officers with that COPS funding and 

put them in these certain assignments. And I think that logistically 

would be tough to do. So I cannot necessarily be a proponent of 

that. 

I will tell you that I do not believe that funding for, let us say, 

a DA’s office which really, really needs to have assistance is alone 

going to make the difference. Let me give you an example, Senator. 

Bureau of Justice Assistance, God bless them, came to the table 

last year, went through our Southeast Louisiana Criminal Justice 

Recovery Task Force, BJA, Department of Justice sent 60 million 

bucks down to Louisiana, $30 million of which hit the Greater New 

Orleans area—$5 million for the police department, $13 million for 

the sheriff, $3 million for the DA. As a result of some moving moneys around and continuously, I think, with BJA’s assistance, redirecting these moneys to try and get them effectively spent, as 

Bob Stellingworth said, the DA has applied these moneys to help 

pay the salaries of seven prosecutors who are making pretty credible money for short periods of time, I believe 12-month or 10-

month assignments, to screen cases, remove the backlog of cases, 

and try difficult cases. 

Now, they have helped. They are good folks, and they have done 

a heck of a job. But, again, if you talk to these individuals, you will 

also learn, I believe, that despite those funds helping in paying 

these individuals, the problem—we still have not seen a diminution 

in the 701 releases. Policies that have been made in that DA’s office which have caused the DA’s office, up until very recently, to 

reject—to not charge individuals with bills of information who have 

been arrested on serious drug felonies until they get full lab reports 

and to reject the notion of charging these individuals with field test 

reports that we have done federally, that has been, I think, a very 

destructive policy, and I think it produced a lot of 701 releases, and 

I think it still does, although they have committed to now reforming that. 

The Attorney General of the United States sat next to me when 

the DA at a closed-door meeting with agency heads committed to 

24

do that. He committed to do that in a press conference with Bob 

Stellingworth and the police chief. I do not know if they have done 

that effectively yet. They have got to do that. 

I think there are some arcane policies that involve the DA’s office 

refusing to accept police reports for screening on cases that are 

pending release unless and until those reports literally contained 

all the information necessary in black and white to prosecute that 

person, which meant that the DA’s office was rejecting reports and 

could not screen them and decide what additional elements they 

needed satisfied. I think that produced a horrible problem. 

Now, what I am saying to you is—

Chairman LEAHY. The chief seems to be agreeing with that. 

Mr. LETTEN. So we have still got 2,100 Rule 701 releases. What 

I am saying to the Senators, sir, is while funds, I think, have made 

a difference and BJA has proven that and can make somewhat of 

a difference, we are talking about hard policy decisions in that office that have to change. And I am not an elected official. I cannot 

make that happen. I cannot leverage that to happen. But I humbly 

believe, as a career prosecutor, that some of those decisions relative 

to organization, prioritization, communication, and charging policies would advance the ball a lot. And until that happens, none of 

this other stuff is going to work. 

Chairman LEAHY. Have you seen Senator Landrieu’s 10-point 

program? 

Mr. LETTEN. Senator Landrieu’s 10-point program? Yes, I have. 

Chairman LEAHY. I am telling her not to listen, but how do you 

feel about it? 

Mr. LETTEN. I think the 10-point program is certainly—there are 

some fundamental—having read that program, I believe that there 

are some very, very important basic tenets in there that I think do 

advance law enforcement. I really do. And I will tell you, Senator 

Landrieu and Senator Vitter both—and I say this not gratuitously—understand the culture, understand the problems we have, 

and I think have identified a lot of the things that have to happen 

to help fix some of those problems. I am focusing on what I think 

is the most glaring problem right now. 

Chairman LEAHY. Would the rest of you agree with that, that the 

10-point program would be a help? And everybody is shaking their 

head yes. 

You know, there are certain basic things in law enforcement that 

we all understand, whether you are in California of Louisiana or 

Vermont or wherever else. But we also understand, those who work 

in law enforcement, that there are always unique situations to the 

jurisdiction, and one has to be able to understand the jurisdiction 

to do it. 

I was looking at, for example, Mr. Stellingworth, in preparing for 

this, that you and your group have been active in supporting the 

New Orleans Police Department after the storm, but you have been 

raising money privately for police body armor that FEMA did not 

replace after the storm. 

I am interested in that. We have legislation that actually a 

former Senator, Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell, and I put together several years ago and that we fund every year to buy body 

armor for local police. I have been in other parts of the country, 

25

and a police officer will see me and sort of tap his or her chest 

where the body armor is. But why—and I am a little bit—this is 

such a basic thing today. When I was in law enforcement, we did 

not see body armor that much. Today it is basic. Why in heaven’s 

name did you have to raise money for that? Why didn’t FEMA just 

do that? 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. Senator, it would seem simple. 

Chairman LEAHY. They have got 18 ‘‘gazillion’’ dollars down 

there. That is a technical term, but go ahead. 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. Well, initially, there is a problem with body 

armor that gets wet, by the way. 

Chairman LEAHY. I understand. 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. And there are dates, so as a result, a large 

portion of the body armor got wet in New Orleans. So there was 

a need that was there. The city government, because of its funding 

circumstance, could not afford it. FEMA indicated there was a possibility they could reimburse at some point in the future. But you 

cannot ask officers to worry about whether FEMA is going to buy 

them vests in 6 months. 

Chairman LEAHY. Don’t get shot at for the next 8 months until 

the money comes in. That is what you are saying. 

Mr. STELLINGWORTH. That is exactly right. So the critical became 

whether we should move forward. There were several significant 

donors in our community that came forward, and we have bought 

over $400,000 of bulletproof vests for police officers. It is still not 

enough, I might add. But there still is the potential for FEMA at 

some point to step forward. But, bureaucratically, you need a vest 

today, once it has been wet, once it has been determined that it is 

no longer functional. You cannot wait. And the system does not 

seem to be able to react to that, both at the State level, both at 

the local funding level, and both at the Federal level. 

Chairman LEAHY. Chief, you wanted to add to that? I can see it. 

I can almost—

Mr. CANNATELLA. Yes, well, let me tell you, before I was Chief 

of Operations, I was Chief of Administration and Support, and I 

dealt directly with FEMA on some of our recovery issues. And bulletproof vests is a sore subject. They only wanted to replace vests 

that officers had on during the hurricane that got wet in that 

water, if you will, or officers that lost their vests in the houses that 

may have left them during the hurricane and they lost them. 

Where our problem comes in is the vast majority of our vests got 

wet, obviously got wet, because we worked in the storm. They have 

expired. There is an expiration date on those vests, and FEMA will 

not replace vests that have expired. That is not their job, they said. 

And, of course, the city has got its meager funding source and its 

budget to figure out what we are going to spend our money on, and 

maybe at that particular time the vests were not expired. So the 

budget has the vests have. 

Again, to me in this society, in this country, to have to go ask 

a man that runs a chain of convenience stores to buy bulletproof 

vests for police, and even more telling, recently Mr. Larry Lundy, 

the owner of the Pizza Hut franchises, donated one of his buildings 

and renovated at his expense to move our 7th District police station into to get them out of the FEMA trailers they were in. 

26

I am going to give you something, Senator, that I think is going 

to really upset you. We actually have police officers take up a collection every week to pay to have the port-a-lets cleaned out that 

they are using in their police stations because there are no bathrooms. Now, I did not want to go there. 

Chairman LEAHY. OK, you make your point. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. But the point is, again, that is where we are. 

Chairman LEAHY. Frankly, if this was all going on 2 months 

after the storm—

Mr. CANNATELLA. Oh, no. It is still going on. 

Chairman LEAHY.—it would be understandable. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Yes, sir. 

Chairman LEAHY. There is no excuse for this to be the situation 

today. Absolutely no excuse whatsoever. 

Senator Landrieu? 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you, and I appreciate your line of 

questioning, Mr. Chairman. I would like just to followup with a 

couple of things. I think it would be a disservice to leave this hearing with the idea that if we could just fix the District Attorney’s 

Office in New Orleans, everything would be fine. And I know, Mr. 

Letten, that is not what you wanted to leave the record to reflect. 

Having said that, I understand that there are serious reforms 

that need to be made in that office, and I am not as familiar with 

the details as you are, and I appreciate you being at the table to 

try to work that out. 

But my question is this: You received, Jim, six additional U.S. 

Attorneys, you received nine additional FBI agents and additional 

Drug Enforcement agents that you have testified yourself have 

made a significant difference in your ability to carry out your duties and responsibilities, augmented your work, which, as you 

know, I have testified publicly many times has been excellent. 

Do you not agree that local police officers and local organizations 

and local courts also need additional resources to help them get 

their job done? 

Mr. LETTEN. Senator, I am certainly—and if I focus too much like 

a laser on one part of the criminal justice system, I certainly did 

not mean to suggest that fixing that, as you said aptly, would fix 

the entire thing. I think I used the movement of the watch metaphor, because they all have to be fixed. 

I can’t dispute, Senator, at all the need for additional resources 

for the local—whether it is the DA’s office for salaries or people or 

certainly for a police department that has been hemorrhaging police officers, a wonderful police department that has been hemorrhaging officers because of quality of life—

Senator LANDRIEU. Or for juvenile justice? 

Mr. LETTEN. Or for juvenile justice, which I believe is a huge 

looming problem which needs assets 

Senator LANDRIEU. Or for the community groups? 

Mr. LETTEN. Or for the community groups. I guess my message 

was—because I think I did not want to—I wanted my message to 

be one that I felt very strongly about and also one that wouldn’t 

necessarily simply overlap or underscore other valid points. And 

that is, while those resources are necessary—and I do not dispute 

and will never dispute what these fine men have said these people 

27

need, because they are all absolutely correct in terms of what they 

need. I will back it 100 percent. The issue is, though, that I think 

what I do not want to be lost on the Committee—and the public, 

for that matter—is that especially with some of the entities out 

there, it is just as important to make sure that the assets they 

have are used effectively and efficiently as how much assets they 

get. And so that is very critical. 

Senator LANDRIEU. OK. Let me ask you this, then: Do you think 

that Judge Bell can use his assets effectively? 

Mr. LETTEN. Oh, I do. I do. I look to him very strong—

Senator LANDRIEU. Do you think Tony Cannatella can use his assets effectively? 

Mr. LETTEN. I have faith in these men and the organizations 

they represent. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Do you think Robert Stellingworth can use 

the assets effectively? 

Mr. LETTEN. I do. 

Senator LANDRIEU. OK. And while no one person has authority 

over the district attorney, who is an elected official, most certainly 

the community can bring pressure to bear on the reforms necessary. And part of our objective here is to get resources to the 

community groups to better enable them to provide good, solid information to the public so that the public in this democracy can 

make good decisions about the kind of justice system they want to 

have. 

My second question to you, Mr. Cannatella, it is 18 months after 

the greatest flood—one of the greatest floods in the history of the 

country, and I think most certainly since 1927. Has the Justice Department called you or the leadership of the police force in any 

kind of special meeting to ask you how they could help you to help 

your 800 officers that lost their homes, their children who are without schools, where they were going to get their health care from 

after they got off their 12-hour beat in the event that they broke 

a leg or injured their head, what kind of hospital? Have they ever 

had a meeting with you about how to help you stand up—

Mr. CANNATELLA. Not on personal issues like that, no. 

Senator LANDRIEU. None. 

Mr. CANNATELLA. Crime issues only, yes. 

Senator LANDRIEU. OK. I want to say for the record, I think it 

is extremely disturbing that the Justice Department has not had 

one meeting with the police association or the police officers on the 

subject of the 800 out of 1,400 officers that you have testified today 

have lost their homes, many of their spouses lost their jobs, a 

health care system that has collapsed, and yet continue to call 

press conferences with fancy backdrops, as the Chairman said, 

about how much they support first responders. 

Am I mistaken that our police officers—I thought they were first 

responders. I thought our firefighters were first responders. I don’t 

know how more basic you can get than providing a bulletproof vest, 

a salary, a hospital bed in the event that you get shot, a school for 

the children, or a roof over your head. If I am missing something, 

I wish somebody would tell me. 

So I want this record to reflect that while I understand that reform is essential—and I have spent my life, 30 years in officer, 

28

fighting for it—I cannot let this hearing close with the idea that 

if we would just fix a few things at home, that this whole problem 

will go away. 

And I will finally say, as Senator Leahy opened this, if we can 

spend billions of dollars in Iraq training their police officers, most 

certainly we can provide a roof over the ones that we have in New 

Orleans. 

Chairman LEAHY. Gentlemen, again, I thank you for coming up 

here. We have no control over the weather. Actually, we have very 

little control over anything, but certainly over the weather. So I appreciate you coming here. 

I will keep the record open in case others have things to add. 

And when you look back at the transcript, if you find something 

you wish you had added, something further, or a number was off 

or something, obviously we give you a chance to add to that. Both 

Senator Landrieu and I also serve on the Appropriations Committee, and I suspect this hearing is going to be involved there, too. 

Thank you very much. 

[Whereupon, at 12:46 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

[Questions and answers and submissions for the record follow.]

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