IMPROVING CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR THE COPYRIGHT COMMUNITY: ENSURING THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE AND THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ARE ABLE TO MEET THE DEMANDS 

OF THE DIGITAL AGE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 

ADMINISTRATION 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, DECEMBER 2, 2015 

Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration 

( 

Available on the Internet: 

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/house/administration/index.html 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
IMPROVING CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR THE COPYRIGHT COMMUNITY: ENSURING THE COPYRIGHT 

OFFICE AND THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ARE ABLE TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE DIGITAL AGE 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

21–529 2016

IMPROVING CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR THE COPYRIGHT COMMUNITY: ENSURING THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE AND THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ARE ABLE TO MEET THE DEMANDS 

OF THE DIGITAL AGE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 

ADMINISTRATION 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, DECEMBER 2, 2015 

Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration 

( 

Available on the Internet: 

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/house/administration/index.html 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION 

CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan, Chairman 

GREGG HARPER, Mississippi 

RICHARD NUGENT, Florida 

RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois 

BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia 

MARK WALKER, North Carolina 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania 

Ranking Minority Member 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

JUAN VARGAS, California 

PROFESSIONAL STAFF

SEAN MORAN, Staff Director 

JAMIE FLEET, Minority Staff Director 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
(1) 

IMPROVING CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR THE 

COPYRIGHT COMMUNITY: ENSURING THE 

COPYRIGHT OFFICE AND THE LIBRARY OF 

CONGRESS ARE ABLE TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE DIGITAL AGE 

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2015 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 11:11 a.m., in room 

1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Candice S. Miller 

(chairman of the Committee) presiding. 

Present: Representatives Miller, Harper, Nugent, Davis, Comstock, Walker, Brady, Lofgren, and Vargas. 

Staff Present: Sean Moran, Staff Director; John Clocker, Deputy 

Staff Director; Bob Sensenbrenner, Deputy General Counsel; John 

L. Dickhaus, Legislative Clerk; Erin McCracken, Communications 

Director; Reynold Schweickhardt, Director of Technology Policy; 

Brad D. Walvort, Professional Staff Member; Edward J. Puccerella, 

Professional Staff Member; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; 

Matt Pinkus, Minority Senior Policy Advisor; Khalil Abboud, Minority Deputy Staff Director/Director of Legislative Operations; 

Mike Harrison, Minority Chief Counsel; and Eddie Flaherty, Minority Chief Clerk. 

The CHAIRMAN. We will move on and now call to order the Committee on House Administration’s hearing today, which is going to 

be on the U.S. Copyright Office. 

The hearing record will remain open for 5 legislative days so that 

members may submit materials that they wish to be included. [The 

information follows:] 

The CHAIRMAN. Today we are holding this hearing to discuss the 

current IT functionality of the Library of Congress’ Copyright Office, areas where the Copyright Office is focused on improving their 

overall customer service, and how, working together, the leadership 

within the Library and its Copyright Office are meeting the demands of today’s digital age. 

We would ask our witnesses to come forward. I see them as we 

are making our opening remarks. 

Wow, you were all back in that room? Okay. 

The Copyright Office is one of seven business units within the Library of Congress and operates using both appropriated funds as 

well as the fees that it collects for copyright registration, recordation, and statutory licensing to manage the disbursement of royalty 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
2 

payments. Each year the Library’s Copyright Office examines approximately a half a million creative works, such as books or songs, 

movies, software, Internet platforms, and provides a copyright of 

authorship to those individual products. 

The Library is charged to administer our Nation’s system of 

copyright law, which it inherited back in 1870. It is really a huge 

responsibility that promotes innovation and creativity. For writers, 

singers, producers, IT developers, the copyright process provides 

clear lines of authorship and ownership of their creative products 

and protects them as they are distributed throughout the world, a 

task that is becoming increasingly complex and challenging in today’s digital world. 

Today, of course, we are streaming and we are downloading content. We are using social media and multifaceted Internet platforms and software, constantly updated to improve customer interface and security. 

The mission of the Copyright Office, which is so critical to innovative growth in the world today, is to provide customers with the 

assurance that their hard work and investment will be protected. 

It is to instill the confidence people need to invest in a new idea 

or a new product. Again, in today’s fast-moving digital world that 

assurance is increasingly difficult to provide. 

So the technology and business model needs to evolve for today’s 

customers. It does so with each of the seven units, and the Library’s central IT office plays a critical role in supporting the Copyright Office, including providing a technology infrastructure and 

the support for needed capital improvements. The two entities rely 

very heavily on one another. 

Understanding the scope and significance of this operation, it is 

very concerning to read the GAO report that was released just earlier this year outlining the Library’s longstanding weaknesses 

across several IT areas, including Copyright. According to the reports, operational and organizational challenges within the Library 

and its Copyright Office have resulted in a serious backlog with the 

registration and recordation system, causing extensive wait times, 

some as long as 18 months, as has been noted. 

In addition to outdated technologies and insufficient IT capabilities, especially with the recordation process, the GAO also identified deficiencies related to data integrity and security. It also highlighted the lack of a Library-wide strategic plan to address all of 

these problems. 

In its report, the GAO included 31 recommendations for the Library to address these weaknesses. Perhaps most importantly, they 

also highly recommended that the Library hire a Chief Information 

Officer. So our Committee, of course, will be looking for an update 

on where the Library is with these recommendations and as well 

what caused a recent IT service outage that affected a number of 

Library-supported systems, including the Copyright Office. In fact, 

for more than a week, an entire week in September, the online 

copyright registration system, which is referred to as eCO, was 

down for a week because of the outage. 

So the Committee obviously wants to hear from the Library regarding the current IT system and how those operations have been 

impacting its Copyright Office in the copyright community. The 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
3 

Committee is also interested to hear how overall customer service 

experiences will be improved. 

The Committee will also be hearing from the Register of the 

Copyright Office today and how the Copyright Office’s own management structure fits within the broader Library system, if the 

Copyright Office is receiving the required support from the Library, 

and how these two entities, again, are working together to correct 

the current issues that they face today. 

Finally, we will be hearing from the GAO about the problems 

identified in the March report and the Library’s progress implementing its recommendations. 

I would just note that I know there have been a number of people who have been advocating for some period of time that the 

Copyright Office actually be independent from the Library, but that 

is not the purpose of today’s hearing. That is not what we are talking about today. Today we want to hear how Library management, 

both the Acting Librarian and the Register of Copyrights, are working together diligently to fix the immediate problems before them 

to improve their operations and customer support. 

I want to thank our witnesses for their appearance, and I will 

more formally introduce them in just a moment. But now I would 

like to recognize my colleague and the ranking member of the Committee, Mr. Brady, for purposes of his opening statement. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. And I want to thank the Chairman for 

calling this important hearing today. And I would like to congratulate David Mao on his new responsibilities as Acting Librarian of 

Congress. 

Madam Chairman, I have a longer statement for the record, but 

would like to make a few comments before we hear from our witnesses. 

I want to be clear that I support keeping the Copyright Office in 

the Library of Congress, but I also want to be clear that the Library of Congress needs to support the Copyright Office. This 

starts with solid operations support, including a laser-like focus on 

informational technology, and I hope to hear today how the Library 

of Congress offices are working together to provide creators and inventors good customer service. 

I am pleased with the work that David and his team at the Library have done, but that is just a start, and I look forward to 

hearing about how we could continue to make important progress 

in this area. 

I thank the Chairman again, and I yield back the balance of my 

time. 

[The statement of Mr. Brady follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
4 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 13 21529A.001
5 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 14 21529A.002
6 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

I would also like to congratulate David Mao as I formally introduce him. He became the Acting Librarian on October 1, 2015. 

So you are just getting your feet wet, so to say, but not really 

because he had previously served as Deputy Librarian of Congress 

from January 12 of 2015, and before that he was the 23rd Law Librarian of the Congress, serving in that position since January of 

2012. He also has experience in the Library working as the section 

head for the Congressional Research Service and also became the 

first Deputy Law Librarian of Congress. He also has experience in 

the private sector, working in private practice for a number of 

years. 

He graduated from George Washington University, obtained his 

law degree from Georgetown University Law Center, and also has 

a master’s degree in Library Science from the Catholic University 

of America. 

So we welcome you, sir. 

Maria Pallante was appointed as the Register of Copyrights on 

June 1, 2011, after serving 5 months as the Acting Register of the 

Copyright Office. She also served as the Copyright Office—served 

it as Deputy General Counsel from 2007 to 2008 and as an Associate Register and Director of Policy and International Affairs from 

2008 to 2010. 

Ms. Pallante also has extensive experience working in the area 

of copyright. Before coming to this office, she also worked as the 

assistant director of the Authors Guild, Inc., and then as executive 

director of the National Writers Union, focusing on copyright policy, transactions, litigation, and freedom of expression issues. 

She is a 1990 graduate of the George Washington University 

Law School. She earned her bachelor’s degree from Misericordia— 

I hope I am pronouncing that correctly—University in Pennsylvania. 

Finally, Joel Willemssen is the Managing Director of Information 

Technology Issues at the U.S. Government Accountability Office. In 

this position he has overall responsibility for the GAO’s evaluations 

of information technology across the Federal Government. 

Since joining the GAO in 1979, he has led numerous reviews of 

information technology systems and management at a wide array 

of Federal agencies. He frequently testifies on information technology issues before congressional committees, appearing as a GAO 

witness on more than 100 occasions. 

So you are pretty old hat at this, I would say. We appreciate you 

being here. 

He received his bachelor and master’s degree in business administration from the University of Iowa. 

So, again, we thank you all for joining us. At this time the chair 

would recognize the Librarian of Congress, David Mao. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
7 

STATEMENTS OF DAVID S. MAO, ACTING LIBRARIAN OF CONGRESS; MARIA A. PALLANTE, REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS 

AND DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED STATES COPYRIGHT OFFICE; JOEL C. WILLEMSSEN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY—U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

STATEMENT OF DAVID S. MAO 

Mr. MAO. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Miller, Ranking 

Member Brady and Members of the Committee. Good morning. I 

am honored to testify before you today in my ninth week as Acting 

Librarian of Congress. 

Since 1800, the Library has faithfully served Congress. Congress 

placed the copyright function in the Library in 1870, and since 

then the Library has contributed to the government’s constitutional 

role to promote the progress of science and useful arts. Copyright 

deposits have been a resource for generations of Americans and we 

take seriously our stewardship of this important record of America’s heritage. 

Factors leading to the 1870 act still exist today; however, improvements are needed. Copyright law needs to be updated. Regulations and processes must keep pace with the demands and expectations of copyright users. The Copyright Office infrastructure 

needs to be strengthened and modernized. 

The Library is a resource of knowledge that furthers intellectual 

and creative activity and customer service is crucial to our work. 

I know the Register shares my goal to provide services when, 

where, and in whatever form modern users expect and demand. We 

will work together to develop the updated processes and modernized systems to meet the needs of and serve our customers and 

stakeholders. 

The Library has developed more than 250 enterprise systems 

and applications over the past 50 years. While achieving these successes, though, some areas have not kept pace with the development of technology and general standards and best practices. I assure you that these are a top priority. We have work to do to 

achieve a high-performing IT environment that supports the entire 

Library of Congress in serving you and the American people, and 

we are firmly committed to achieving this objective. 

GAO’s March report documented IT issues that require immediate attention. As Acting Librarian of Congress, I accept responsibility for implementing strategies to forge a new path forward. 

These strategies are built on three key pillars: leadership, collaboration, and secure accessibility. 

First, GAO identified the lack of a permanent Chief Information 

Officer. I am happy to report that Mr. Bud Barton joined the Library as permanent CIO this past September. He heads the newly 

aligned Office of the CIO, specifically focused on providing IT leadership and services. With his guidance, the Library began implementing changes to ensure that IT strategic planning, procurement, and management are considered at the appropriate levels 

and consistent across the Library. The CIO and I meet weekly to 

review the status of these changes and issues identified by the 

GAO and the Library’s inspector general. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
8 

Second, collaboration is essential to managing IT investments 

and resources effectively. The Library is committed to providing an 

IT framework built upon performance, reliability, security, and 

adaptability, and that allows flexibility for specialized systems best 

managed at the unit level. The CIO is implementing agreements 

across the Library for delivery of IT infrastructure and services to 

support normal business operations. We are in a time of change 

and recognize that ongoing communication and adjustment is necessary to ensure that collaboration continues successfully. 

We share GAO concerns about potential duplication in IT services between the Office of CIO and Library units; however, an enterprise model provides for individual control of critical systems 

and development processes while also ensuring effective use of resources and preventing investment overlap. 

Third, ensuring security while allowing access to data is one of 

the most significant challenges in handling digital content. Collection items such as paper and books are relatively easy to protect. 

Digital content, on the other hand, requires secure storage systems, 

backups for data protection and preservation, and access management policies for users. These challenges are complex, but not insurmountable. The Library has a long history of protecting digital 

content while simultaneously making it accessible and we are 

proud of our record of doing so. We will take the steps required to 

ensure copyright materials remain secure. 

The Library is committed to reaching for the highest levels of 

customer service, and I am confident that our current strategies 

and planned improvements will allow for us to do so. We are working closely with the GAO audit team and the Library’s inspector 

general to fulfill their recommendations. 

Chairman Miller, Ranking Member Brady, and Members of the 

Committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. 

You will find additional detail on recent IT management improvements in my written statement. I look forward to responding to 

your questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Mao follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
9 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 23 21529A.003
10 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 24 21529A.004
11 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 25 21529A.005
12 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 26 21529A.006
13 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 27 21529A.007
14 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 28 21529A.008
15 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 29 21529A.009
16 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 30 21529A.010
17 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 31 21529A.011
18 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 32 21529A.012
19 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 33 21529A.013
20 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 34 21529A.014
21 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

The Chair now recognizes Register Pallante. 

STATEMENT OF MARIA A. PALLANTE 

Ms. PALLANTE. Chairman Miller, Ranking Member Brady, and 

Members of the Committee, thank you for holding this public hearing and for your concern in particular about customer service. 

My staff and I have dedicated the past few years to modernization issues, both assessing gaps in the copyright law and gaps in 

copyright administration. Through this work it has become clear to 

us that major operational changes are needed for the Copyright Office if it is to meet the dynamic needs of the global marketplace 

that we serve. 

Technology is obviously the cornerstone of a modern copyright 

system. This is why in October 2011 I announced a number of 

multiyear special projects, including a technical upgrades project 

from which we published a major assessment of customer experiences and a series of baseline recommendations. The project team 

recommended that we develop a robust, responsive, and highly secure enterprise architecture decoupled from Library operations and 

dedicated to the unique and critical mission of administering the 

copyright law. 

I also created the first Chief Information Officer position on the 

Register’s management team in 2012. This Copyright Office CIO 

was a recommendation from public interest organizations and copyright owners alike. But this is just the beginning. The Copyright 

Office will need a robust team of technology and data experts. 

These experts should not merely be assigned or on call from another part of the agency, but rather be integrated into the Copyright Office mission where they can work side by side with legal 

and business experts and with direct, not indirect, accountability to 

the Register. 

Just yesterday I released an exciting 5-year plan, copies of which 

you should have received, that draws upon several years of deliberative analysis and public processes. It incorporates extensive 

public recommendations. As stated in the plan, modernization is 

about more than upgrades to hardware and software. The office is 

at a time where we need to re-envision almost everything we do, 

including how customers register claims, submit deposits, record licenses, file security interests, share royalty information, and utilize 

expert resources. Although it is not the focus of this hearing, many 

policy issues are dependent upon modern IT systems, including improvements to music licensing, orphan works, and small claim solutions. 

In the current paradigm, modernization will depend upon and be 

subject to IT services from the Library of Congress, but this central 

management of IT resources has never worked well for the copyright community. It has, in my opinion, quite literally disconnected 

the Register’s statutory responsibility to administer the copyright 

law from the tools, technologies, and staffing that are necessary to 

do so. It should be alarming to all of us that under this arrangement no one in the agency has complete control of or complete accountability for the authoritative records of copyright ownership 

under U.S. law. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
22 

IT challenges are difficult to divorce from larger governance 

questions. The Library and the Copyright Office have always had 

important but distinct missions. It does not serve either institution 

to further conflate or entwine them. Such conflation, in fact, is contrary to the original goals of Congress, which in 1897 created the 

Copyright Office for the purpose of separating copyright functions 

from Library functions. These boundaries were important then, but 

they are much more important today. 

My goals for the Copyright Office reflect all of my experience as 

a copyright attorney—some 25 years—and 4 years of public processes that I conducted as Register. Our customers should be able 

to transact easily, quickly, from anywhere at any time, using consumer-friendly platforms, mobile technologies, and modern 

metadata. They should have searchable digital records that provide 

the lifecycle of a copyright interest from creation to public domain 

and a chain of title that supports integration of third-party data. 

These services, performed properly, will fuel any number of innovative businesses and ensure that both authors and users of intellectual property receive the benefits and the presumptions of the law. 

This is what copyright administration is about in the 21st century. 

In closing, I want to thank my colleagues at the Library of Congress and my friend David Mao for engaging on these complex 

issues and I want to thank GAO for sharing its expertise this past 

year. I hope that the Library can support these goals. But over the 

past few years that support has been subservient and it has also 

been hostile at times. Thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Pallante follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
23 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 39 21529A.015
24 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 40 21529A.016
25 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 41 21529A.017
26 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 42 21529A.018
27 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 43 21529A.019
28 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 44 21529A.020
29 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 45 21529A.021
30 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

The Chair now recognizes Mr. Willemssen for his testimony. 

STATEMENT OF JOEL C. WILLEMSSEN 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. Thank you, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member 

Brady, Members of the Committee. Thank you for inviting us to 

testify today. As requested, I will summarize our statement on our 

reports issued earlier this year on IT issues at the Library of Congress and at the Copyright Office. 

Regarding the Library of Congress, our March report identified 

weaknesses in numerous IT management-related areas. Examples 

of these were, one, not having an IT strategic plan detailing how 

the Library intended to address future goals and strategies, which 

was especially important given that information is increasingly 

being created, shared, and preserved in digital formats. 

Two, the Library had a highly inaccurate and inconsistent inventory of its information technology assets. 

Three, the Library did not know how much it was spending on 

IT. In the absence of such information, GAO conducted work to estimate expenditures and determined that the Library had at least 

$119 million in IT obligations for fiscal year 2014. 

Four, the Library was not effectively overseeing its investments 

in IT and its acquisitions were not always guided by well-developed 

risk management, and cost and schedule estimating approaches. 

Five, deficiencies in information security and privacy practices 

and associated technical controls placed systems and data at risk 

of unauthorized access, modification, or loss. 

Six, the Library’s central IT office did not provide services that 

satisfied the other operating units. Accordingly, these other units 

often considered other options for addressing their IT needs. 

A key factor contributing to these and other weaknesses was that 

the Library lacked a Chief Information Officer with clear responsibility and adequate authority. Subsequent to our report being 

issued, the Library appointed a Chief Information Officer. However, it remains to be seen whether this position will have clear responsibility and adequate authority to drive needed improvements. 

Overall, the Library generally concurred with our 31 recommendations intended to provide a sound foundation for improving the management of IT. Further, the Library has initiated a 

range of actions to address the recommendations. However, none of 

the 31 has been fully implemented yet. 

Looking forward, the Library needs to commit to milestones for 

implementing our recommendations and focus on meeting those 

milestones in order to make progress in improving its IT management. 

Turning to the Copyright Office, our March report identified a 

number of IT challenges, particularly with regard to the Electronic 

Copyright Office system, or eCO, which is used for, among other 

things, the registration of copyrights. These challenges included 

numerous user complaints about the performance and usability of 

the eCO system. 

We also reported that the Copyright Office had proposed investments in several IT improvement projects, but had not yet developed an IT strategic plan to guide its efforts. We noted that the ofVerDate Sep 11 2014 06:38 Dec 09, 2016 Jkt 021529 PO 00000 Frm 00034 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A529.XXX A529

lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
31 

fice had been hindered in developing long-term plans due to the absence of such plans for the Library as a whole. In addition, dissatisfaction with IT services provided by the Library led Copyright 

to pursue its own IT activities. 

Since GAO’s review, Copyright has issued an overall strategic 

plan that, among other things, describes goals and objectives for 

improving its IT environment. Going forward, Copyright will need 

to follow through on its intentions to develop a more detailed IT 

plan that will include specific strategies, costs, and time lines. Such 

an approach, if implemented effectively, can lay the groundwork for 

modernization of systems critical to its mission. 

That concludes the summary of my statement. I look forward to 

your questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Willemssen follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
32 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 50 21529A.022
33 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 51 21529A.023
34 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 52 21529A.024
35 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 53 21529A.025
36 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 54 21529A.026
37 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 55 21529A.027
38 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 56 21529A.028
39 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 57 21529A.029
40 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 58 21529A.030
41 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 59 21529A.031
42 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 60 21529A.032
43 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 61 21529A.033
44 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 62 21529A.034
45 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 63 21529A.035
46 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 64 21529A.036
47 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 65 21529A.037
48 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 66 21529A.038
49 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 67 21529A.039
50 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 68 21529A.040
51 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 69 21529A.041
52 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 70 21529A.042
53 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 71 21529A.043
54 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 72 21529A.044
55 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Before I start my questions, I have been asked by the Copyright 

Alliance to enter in for the record and with a UC, if I could, a report that they have here, ‘‘Improving Customer Service for the 

Copyright Community.’’ Without objection, I will enter that into the 

record. 

[The information follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
56 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 74 21529A.045
57 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 75 21529A.046
58 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 76 21529A.047
59 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 77 21529A.048
60 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 78 21529A.049
61 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 79 21529A.050
62 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 80 21529A.051
63 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 81 21529A.052
64 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 82 21529A.053
65 

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly, listening to Mr. Willemssen articulate 

a number of the recommendations that were in the GAO report is 

eye opening, and I guess let’s just start with that. 

If I could ask Mr. Mao, here you have 31 recommendations, 

which he didn’t go through all of them, but really, apparently none 

of them have been implemented yet, even though the Library did 

say that they were going to start some of them in September of this 

year, which has not happened. I do know that you have hired a 

CIO, but I don’t think you have strategically outlined all the various areas for how that is all going to work. So perhaps you could 

just tell us. I am sure you have read the report and dissected it, 

and I am hopeful that you can tell us how you would be prioritizing 

all of these various recommendations that they have made to you. 

Mr. MAO. Thank you, yes. And we have taken the 31 recommendations, and by our account some of them are completed. 

We are working right now with the GAO audit team to get validation from them that they are indeed completed. We have met with 

them regularly to discuss them and will continue to meet with 

them regularly going forward to ensure that all of the 31 recommendations are completed. We have a schedule that will allow 

us to complete the 31 recommendations hopefully by 2018. 

The CHAIRMAN. Is that something you can share with the Committee? 

Mr. MAO. The schedule? 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. 

Mr. MAO. Certainly, we can. I am happy to provide it. 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay, could you just tell us what is your top priority, one, two, three, perhaps? 

Mr. MAO. Well, the top priorities were identified earlier, and one 

of them, of course, the number one priority was hiring a permanent 

CIO, which we do have on board. And I understand Mr. 

Willemssen’s comment that, you know, it remains to be seen 

whether the hiring of this permanent CIO will completely close out 

that recommendation. But he has started just in September and I 

think we have made good progress with him in the last 2 months. 

And I look forward to proving to the GAO that we can close out 

that particular recommendation. 

And in addition, we have created an IT strategic plan that was 

identified in the GAO report. That is in its final stages right now 

to be shared with the Executive Committee very shortly and we 

hope to have that released by the end of this month. 

We are also implementing processes and procedures for IT investment strategies going forward to make sure that all of the information we collect and all of the information is shared transparently across the entire Library and also that information submitted by all of the units for their needs are considered, and that 

process was just recently started. 

For our preparation for the fiscal 2017 budget cycle, we considered new and expanded program requests from all of the units and 

we walked through the process as we have identified. And certainly, our regulations and internal guidelines will be modified to 

reflect all of these processes that we are putting into place. 

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
66 

Mr. Willemssen, as you heard that, maybe you are already familiar with that list of priorities. What is your thought about those 

priorities, or should they be looking at other priorities? What do 

you think? 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. I agree with the Acting Librarian on the first 

priority, appointing a CIO. The next step is making sure that the 

CIO has adequate responsibility and authority to carry out the mission. That is what we will be looking for over the next couple 

months, in addition to seeing that the CIO has oversight over mission-critical systems and takes more of a leading role on what we 

refer to as commodity IT—back office systems, financial management, human resources, email, laptops, cell phones, et cetera. We 

would like to see more of an active role there. 

The other critical things that we think from an immediacy standpoint that need to be addressed are one, you need to get a clear 

inventory on exactly where your assets are located. The Library 

has made a lot of progress on that, and are doing some reconciliation of the data now. One of the reasons this is important is that 

you have to know where your access points are from an information 

security standpoint so that you can protect your systems and your 

data. 

Secondly, the Library needs to get a handle on IT spending, and 

they are in the process of doing that. So it is not to say they 

haven’t made any progress. They have made tremendous progress. 

However, they are not quite there yet. 

There are also some information security weaknesses from a 

patching and perimeter control perspective that they need to focus 

on addressing. The Library has probably made the most progress 

in the information security area. You may know we also issued a 

not-for-public-release in-depth security report that had 74 recommendations. The Library has already made progress on many of 

those recommendations. 

The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Well, I am delighted hearing that you 

are making that kind of progress and that you look at the GAO report as an opportunity for help, and a tool of assistance, not in an 

adversarial way. Sometimes, when people are critical of our nest, 

we have a tendency to see that as an adversarial kind of thing, but 

we shouldn’t look at it that way. Audits, and GAO in particular, 

can be extremely helpful for every agency. 

Ms. Pallante, you and I had an opportunity to chat on the phone 

for quite a while yesterday about various things that are happening in your agency, and I mentioned to you that in my former 

life as a Michigan secretary of state where we had jurisdiction over 

the DMV as well, I had the largest agency, I guess, in State government at that time, but we always said that customer service 

was the operative phrase for everything that we were trying to do. 

I know that is so in your department as well. 

Talking about eCO—I know that is how it is pronounced, I don’t 

know exactly what it is, E something— but that is an ability for 

your customers to file online, right? Maybe you could talk about 

that a little bit. What is that? Is it particularly helpful? You mentioned about the customer experiences, so on and so forth. You also 

said that you just released this report yesterday. So, I mean, I have 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
67 

not had time to even—I am just looking at it right now. Anyway, 

we will enter it into the record, without objection. 

[The information follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
68 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 88 21529A.054
69 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 89 21529A.055
70 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 90 21529A.056
71 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 91 21529A.057
72 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 92 21529A.058
73 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 93 21529A.059
74 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 94 21529A.060
75 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 95 21529A.061
76 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 96 21529A.062
77 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 97 21529A.063
78 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 98 21529A.064
79 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 99 21529A.065
80 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 100 21529A.066
81 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 101 21529A.067
82 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 102 21529A.068
83 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 103 21529A.069
84 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 104 21529A.070
85 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 105 21529A.071
86 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 106 21529A.072
87 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 107 21529A.073
88 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 108 21529A.074
89 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 109 21529A.075
90 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 110 21529A.076
91 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 111 21529A.077
92 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 112 21529A.078
93 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 113 21529A.079
94 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 114 21529A.080
95 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 115 21529A.081
96 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 116 21529A.082
97 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 117 21529A.083
98 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 118 21529A.084
99 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 119 21529A.085
100 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 120 21529A.086
101 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 121 21529A.087
102 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 122 21529A.088
103 

The CHAIRMAN. Perhaps you could talk a little bit about whether 

or not your customers look at your current system, the eCO system, 

as something that is really customer service oriented, that it is 

easier for them, that they have a good experience with that. 

Ms. PALLANTE. Thank you, Chairman Miller. 

So I think one way to look at eCO, because it predates everybody 

at this table, is that it was a good first-generation system. It is 10 

years old, and it was probably outdated by the time it was implemented. I get to say that because I was in private practice in New 

York at the time and I wasn’t there and don’t really know whether 

it was state of the art at the time or not. 

I do think that off-the-shelf software was a big push in government agencies at that time, and I think those were probably the 

instructions coming from the appropriators in conversations with 

the Librarian’s office about budget. 

And I will further say that I think one of the biggest issues is 

that—and, again, this may reflect the period, not so much the 

agency—the goal was really to replicate the paper processes that 

had been in place for a century into some kind of electronic interface, rather than create a digital interface that harnesses digital 

technology and connects to the global marketplace, which is where 

we are today. 

So when I was appointed Register on June 1, 2011, immediately 

in talking with my staff and doing a lot of external stakeholder 

meetings it became clear to me that eCO was something we needed 

to look at closely. What I wasn’t counting on was that eCO—as the 

software application that we manage—was sitting on top of a network and operating system and an IT governance model that really 

held the key to the effectiveness of whether that could be developed 

further or not. 

So I am not an auditor or an accountant. We have somebody here 

to answer those questions. But this becomes a sunk cost issue, 

right? So I am not a fan of eCO. Most people are not. It is probably 

not a flexible enough software package to further customize and invest in. It never extended to recordation, which is different than 

registration. That is where one records security interests and wills 

and estates and any other way that you are going to track IP rights 

in the world. 

Recordation is still paper. I think we might want to consider it 

a blessing that we didn’t go ahead and dump recordation into eCO 

10 years ago as well. That is not to say it hasn’t been painful to 

have that be a paper process, but I have come to believe that we 

have an opportunity now to get that right, and in doing recordation 

right, go back and integrate registration at the same level. 

So in the 360 that I did in the technical upgrades report that I 

released, it documents many of the frustrations. It is too slow, it 

is too clunky, it is not intuitive. One can’t go into the system and 

track where they are in the process. 

I will say this. Whatever frustrations the public experiences are 

then some on the employee side who are on the other side of that 

software package using it day in and day out. So with that in mind 

and having done the baseline report, we do outline here the kind 

of administration that we really should be offering the public. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
104 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I will take that as an answer that you don’t 

really like the system and it is obviously very antiquated. So one 

of the things coming out of this hearing, and following as well, is 

the Library is prioritizing resources in IT investment, et cetera. We 

will be interested to see how all of that works. I mean, we have 

to know so that we can help you. It is really the purpose of this 

hearing, so that this Committee can be aware of the challenges 

that you are all facing at the Library, and all across the Library, 

but certainly in the Copyright Office with IT challenges and how 

we can assist getting us up to speed so that customers—I mean, 

waiting 18 months for some of these things is a huge handicap 

for—— 

Ms. PALLANTE. Those are paper processes, just so you know, not 

the electronic. 

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, okay, the paper process. 

Ms. PALLANTE. There are Members who have constituents who 

still prefer to mail things in by paper. So that is the extreme end. 

The CHAIRMAN. I see. 

Ms. PALLANTE. But it should be immediate. You are right. 

The CHAIRMAN. All right, very good. The Chair recognizes the 

Ranking Member. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

David, thank you for your testimony. It is clear that you are 

doing a good bit of work very quickly at the Library. It is a great 

institution with great resources for us and for the American people. 

We are friendlies here. We want to be able to be helpful to you. 

So anything that you need when you need anything from us, just 

let us know, you know, and maybe we can get ahead of something 

before something becomes a lot bigger than we can have to handle. 

So stay in touch with us, and we will stay in touch with you. 

I know we are here to talk about the Copyright, but I hope you 

give me a little few minutes on some details on other priorities that 

the Library is doing now under your watch. 

Mr. MAO. Thank you. Well, let me tell you about my goal during 

this time as Acting Librarian of Congress, and my main goal for 

this period is to ensure that the Library of Congress is best positioned for the future. That is it. The topic of today’s hearing, IT 

management, certainly is a part of that priority and part of that 

goal. It is a great priority. 

But there are others as well. Other priorities for me in particular 

are focusing on the staff at the Library of Congress, our human resources. We need to take the time to invest the time and resources, 

develop our staff currently and develop future staff. Certainly collection care is something that we all have to worry about at the Library of Congress and that is another great priority. 

But I think if you take all of these, the IT management, the 

human resources, the collection care, all of them can be supported 

by the pillars that I talked about in my opening statement talking 

about leadership and collaboration, communication, and good governance to make sure that we can support all of these. And so I 

look forward to working with not only my colleague the Register of 

Copyrights but all of the senior leaders across the Library of Congress, as well as the very, very dedicated staff that we have at the 

Library and you Members of Congress to ensure that the Library 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
105 

of Congress continues to be the great institution that it is. Thank 

you. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

And thank you, Madam Chair. I have no other questions. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognizes Mr. Harper. 

Mr. HARPER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

And thanks to each of you. There is obviously a little perceived 

tension on what your job is and what you have to do, and we want 

to be very sensitive to that to make sure that you have everything 

that you need to function properly. You have the great responsibility to oversee the Copyright Office, which is of tremendous importance and becoming more important every day. 

And I can imagine that 10 years ago, we had no real concept for 

what we were going to be or no feel for what we were going to be 

doing today and the challenges we will have as we move more and 

more into a digital age and how that is going to be done. And you 

have not only to take care of it there, but to take care of those 

users and customers, we shall say, that are out there. 

And, Mr. Mao, you have got an even larger responsibility. In that 

larger responsibility we want to make sure that we are doing everything that you are going to need to do that job, that is the purpose of this hearing. 

So if eCO is not the future, it is really not even the present, what 

do we do? Do you have a recommendation that you have for what 

you need, how much it would cost, and if you had that available, 

how quickly it could be implemented? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Well, thank you. 

So, yes, this strategic plan outlines in great detail our recommendations for moving forward, as well as the broad copyright 

community, so all parts of it, copyright owners, individual authors, 

businesses, public interest organizations, the tech sector, et cetera. 

Again, eCO is almost the last piece. That is the software application for certain services that the public interacts with. And that 

would have been my early intuition as Register, could we please 

throw away eCO and go to something open source? It can’t be that 

hard. But in fact, it has to be related to the underlying operating 

system, who has the ability to maintain and access that, who has 

administrative privileges, how that relates to a robust, secure enterprise architecture designed with all of the different services in 

mind. 

One of the big issues we have is that all of the services are not 

integrated. It is really frustrating, right? I mean, if you are looking 

for rights, you want to look for registrations, but if you registered 

a book or a movie in 1985 chances are it has been assigned or licensed multiple times, including internationally. That is the chain 

of title that we need to acknowledge, and that has—— 

Mr. HARPER. So how do you get everything in one universe? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Yeah. And it requires legal thinking and IT 

thinking at the same time, and that has been disconnected in the 

past. 

Mr. HARPER. And is it something, though, with work, funds, and 

determination—— 

Ms. PALLANTE. Absolutely. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
106 

Mr. HARPER. You are clear in your report, and I looked at the 

report last night, my late-night homework to look at it. 

So, Mr. Mao, tell me what you have been doing to address these 

concerns as far as meeting with your new CIO and with the Register to make sure that you are going to be able to accomplish those 

goals. 

Mr. MAO. Well, thank you. First thing I want to say is that the 

Copyright Office’s concerns are concerns for the Library of Congress and certainly they are a concern of mine, and we take them 

all very seriously. And so we are moving aggressively on that and 

I think we have done so in the last few months on trying to address 

the Copyright Office’s concerns, especially in the IT arena. We have 

developed a draft IT strategic plan that links, when released, you 

will see that it links with the recently released Library of Congress 

Strategic Plan for fiscal years 2016 to 2020 and also works in concert with the strategic plan that the Register has released. 

In addition, we are working very closely by communicating. The 

CIO speaks on a regular basis, if not a daily basis, with the CIO 

for the Copyright Office so that we can make sure we understand 

the concerns that are being raised and that we can address them 

and make sure that we can provide the service and support that 

is needed. 

Mr. HARPER. And does Mr. Barton have the authority and autonomy to move towards those things that Register Pallante needs to 

do? 

Mr. MAO. Yes, indeed. The CIO is a member of the Library’s Executive Committee. As I mentioned earlier, I meet with him on a 

weekly basis to talk about the challenges that we are facing and 

how we are addressing them. And he has taken a great, great first 

couple of weeks, you know, in place and moving right ahead. And 

I believe Mr. Willemssen had indicated that he was impressed with 

the progress that we have made in a very short amount of time. 

And so we will continue with that moving forward. 

Mr. HARPER. Of course, I realize he has only been on the job 

since September the 8th, not even 3 months, and I know those are 

ongoing issues and concerns that we have. But it has certainly got 

to be, you know, these are things that we as a Committee expect 

you to be able to work through, work out. 

And we are here to help. And so come to us when those things 

are here and give us that plan, what we have got to do. This is 

something we cannot neglect. And we want to, certainly, and I 

know this is something that Chair Miller is very committed to 

doing, and we will continue to have follow-up to check that 

progress, I am sure. 

With that, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from California, Ms. Lofgren. 

Ms. LOFGREN. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks for this 

hearing. 

Mr. Mao, welcome to the Committee. You come at a time of great 

transition for the Library. And certainly your predecessor did many 

wonderful things in his long career. Being a techie was not one of 

his fine points. So you have your work cut out for you, as I am sure 

you are aware. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
107 

You know, I listened carefully to all of the testimony. I am the 

only member of the Committee that serves on both the Judiciary 

Committee and this Committee. And I don’t want to get too far into 

the weeds on copyright law, but you have to to some extent. 

Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act assigns to 

the Register certain functions to provide for exemptions for 

anticircumvention provisions and this has been problematic. I am 

sure you heard from your constituents a couple of years ago when 

the office said you couldn’t take the cell phone that you own and 

utilize it. And of course we had to go back in and change it. You 

may not have heard of the time that the Register declined to approve in 2010, I believe it was, the circumvention so that blind people could get text-to-voice. The reason why you didn’t hear about 

that was because the Librarian of Congress, thank God, overruled 

the Register on that very bad decision. 

So I do think there is, there has traditionally been a great value 

in having the office located in the Library itself. I just wanted to 

express, since I am here and we haven’t had the Register in the 

Judiciary Committee, some grave concerns about the latest lack of 

exemption for vehicle research. As you know, almost every automobile now has software in it. And what the ruling has done is 

that if your auto mechanic has to circumvent the software to repair 

the car, they have violated the DMCA, because there is a specific 

ruling by the Register that third parties can’t circumvent the software. 

I think that is a wrongheaded decision and I think it is also a 

dangerous decision, because all of the software defects in automobiles, and there are many, unfortunately, have been found out 

by third parties. The manufacturers aren’t the ones saying, you 

know, by the way, your car can be hacked. It is third parties. So 

I think, I am hoping that the Register can share this with the new 

Acting Librarian and he might be able to step in and put some 

sense into this issue. 

Getting back to funding, I noticed in the GAO report, which is 

very helpful—and I am so appreciative of the GAO. You guys wade 

in, you don’t have an agenda, you just try and figure out what is 

going on. You are not perfect any more than any of us are, but, you 

know, you call it as you see it. And it is so appreciated. You are 

really a valuable asset for the Congress and the country. 

And I notice that you have talked about on page 23 the Register 

basically hasn’t formatted a plan, which I think is problematic, but 

obviously any plan would need to be funded. 

Now, I believe, and I don’t know if you looked at this, Mr. Mao, 

that it is the office’s position that the fee-setting authority would 

not allow fees to fund the IT upgrades and expansions. I don’t 

know—I don’t think that is true because the statute actually says 

that when setting fees the reasonable costs incurred by the Copyright Office for providing registration, recordation, and, quote ‘‘provision of services’’ can be the basis for the fees. And any tech company in the world would include software development as part of 

the provision of services in something that would be, I think, part 

of this fee structure. 

Did you have a chance to look at that? 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. We did not look at that specific issue. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
108 

Ms. LOFGREN. I wonder if you could take a quick look at that. 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. Okay. 

Ms. LOFGREN. And the other thing that I am wondering about is, 

does the Copyright Office receive more in fees than it is allowed to 

spend in the appropriations cap and how much reserve is currently 

sitting in the Copyright Office’s treasury? Maybe, I mean, anybody 

who can answer that would be welcome to do so, anyone who 

knows the answer. 

Ms. PALLANTE. I would be happy to answer that. I would also 

like to say, although I don’t want to debate section 1201, that the 

Acting Librarian signed the rule that went out this year that you 

have referred to after extensive consultation based on a 400-page 

analysis and a year-and-a-half process. The reasons for all of the 

exemptions are noted in great detail and also provide the input of 

the Secretary of Commerce as required by the statute. 

With respect to the fees, under the current fee structure we have 

recommended that the language, which dates back a couple of decades, be adjusted to allow for some apportionment to charge for 

capital improvements. Yes, it allows us to charge for some inflation 

and some additional cost, but effectively we are charging for the 

cost of the service as we are rendering it. 

There are other tweaks, whether we can charge in the aggregate 

and cover cost in the aggregate, et cetera, how we protect small actors versus asking big actors to pay a little bit more. These are bigger policy issues that will require some statutory recommendations 

from us. The appropriators have asked that we conduct a public 

process on these issues, which we are in the middle of formulating 

at the time. 

With respect to the reserve, we are asked every year to articulate 

what we think we will receive in fees. And we base that on our best 

judgment and calculations. And in a good year we recover more. In 

a bad year we recover less. When we recover more it goes into our 

reserve account, which we then draw on for the next budget cycle. 

So, for example, in the fiscal year 2017 budget cycle, which we 

are now putting proposals forward for, some of the things we want 

to fund, like, for example, making historic records searchable, that 

have finite cost, are well funded out of a set finite reserve amount 

of money. 

Ms. LOFGREN. Well, it was actually a simple question. What is 

the amount in the reserve account? 

Ms. PALLANTE. What is the amount right at this moment? 

Ms. LOFGREN. Right. 

Ms. PALLANTE. I wouldn’t know. But we have—it is not much. It 

is under $5 million normally. 

Ms. LOFGREN. I just wondered. I mean, I don’t have an agenda 

here. I just wondered what the amount was. And I would note—— 

Ms. PALLANTE. We usually estimate within 2- or 3- to $5 million, 

we get it right. 

Ms. LOFGREN. The fee-setting authority was given in 1997 with 

the electronic filing pilot program in 2006. So I think if you look 

at the plain language of the statute, you can charge off. And I am 

saying this because I don’t think the taxpayers ought to be paying 

for this. When it comes to the Patent Office, the patent applicants 

pay for everything. There is no taxpayer’s money in the patent sysVerDate Sep 11 2014 06:38 Dec 09, 2016 Jkt 021529 PO 00000 Frm 00112 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A529.XXX A529

lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
109 

tem, and I don’t think the taxpayers ought to be subsidizing this 

either. I think users ought to pay for it. 

Ms. PALLANTE. May I respond to that, please? 

Ms. LOFGREN. No, because I think this is—my time is over and 

I am going to yield back. But that is just my opinion, and obviously 

there is a longer discussion, a philosophical one. But what the taxpayers pay for and what they don’t is something that, you know, 

we need to talk about. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentlelady. 

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Nugent. 

Mr. NUGENT. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate this hearing. It is a big change from a hearing I just came from with regards 

to ISIS. So it is actually a pleasure. 

But, you know, when I was Chief Executive Officer of a sheriff’s 

office IT would come in and I would sort of glass over in regards 

to—you know, my big thing was, well, you should just be able to 

make that work. And I found out it is always not as simple as that. 

But my question really goes, obviously there is some angst here, 

as it relates to the CIO for the Library of Congress, how many subdivisions does that CIO have under its broad authority within the 

Library of Congress? 

Mr. MAO. Well, in part of our realignment process launched earlier this year, where we realigned a lot of divisions across the Library, not just the CIO office, our first draft at that has the CIO 

sitting above, with various units under, for example, like, development or—off the top of my head I can’t think of the exact titles. 

But then that is the next management layer underneath that. 

Are you talking about with respect to the other units specifically, 

or to the services? 

Mr. NUGENT. Well, like with the Register. I mean, what number 

of subdivisions does the CIO actually control? 

Because, Ms. Pallante, you have your own CIO? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Yes. 

Mr. NUGENT. So how many CIOs does that CIO deal with on a 

daily basis? 

Mr. MAO. I see. I understand your question now. 

There are two other CIOs, Chief Information Officers, currently 

at the Library of Congress. One works currently in the Copyright 

Office and the other one in the Congressional Research Service. 

Mr. NUGENT. Okay. So when the Library of Congress’ CIO was 

interviewed, hired, Ms. Pallante, did you have any input into that? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Yes. We had people meet him—meet the two finalists after the fact. Yes, before he was hired. 

Mr. NUGENT. Okay. There was an answer given, and you kind of 

rolled your eyes, as it relates to the CIO today in regards to, I 

guess, working relationship. 

Ms. PALLANTE. No. No. The question that was asked was does he 

have sufficient authority. I believe that the CIO and the state of 

best practices for CIOs is that they report to the top of the agency, 

like I report to the top of the agency. In that way, you have the 

trust and partnership and same level of leadership that you need 

to really decide what part of the agency is going to do what. 

What I was objecting to, and I think we have discussed internally, is that the CIO does not report to the Librarian, but reports 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
110 

to a Chief Operating Officer position that was created, which in 

turn reports to the Deputy Librarian, which reports to the Acting 

Librarian. I would like to see that addressed. I have been outspoken about that. 

Mr. NUGENT. Mr. Mao, do you have a comment in regard? I 

mean, that makes a lot of sense. When you have all these different 

bureaucracies in between, I think it then becomes a little more difficult. As the Librarian today, you have to make decisions, and particularly in resources, I would think, how do you do those developmental resources that you have two subdivisions that need help? 

Would it be easier if that CIO reported directly to you? 

Mr. MAO. Well, in our estimation, the way we planned our reorganization or realignment, it was what we considered to be the best 

structure. And the Chief Operating Officer reports directly to the 

Librarian of Congress, similar to, as Ms. Pallante was saying, the 

Register of Copyrights. All of the senior executives, members of the 

Executive Committee, in purpose all report up to the Librarian of 

Congress, or in this case the Acting Librarian of Congress. The 

Chief Information Officer sits on the Executive Committee, along 

with all of the other senior executives in the Library. As I mentioned, I meet weekly with the Chief Information Officer to discuss 

issues, and so I make sure that I am aware of what is going on 

in terms of our challenges and making sure that we are staying on 

top of what is happening. 

Now, that is not to say that changes can’t be made. Certainly—— 

Mr. NUGENT. Well, who makes that decision? Who makes that 

decision as to the reporting requirements of those department 

heads? 

Mr. MAO. It would be the Librarian. And so when we launched 

the initial realignment earlier this year, it came from the Librarian’s office. 

Mr. NUGENT. Which you have now taken over. 

Mr. MAO. That I am a part of, yes. 

Mr. NUGENT. You are a part of, yes. Would you have any recommendations in the future as to how to go forward to make sure 

that from a customer standpoint, you know, the Register’s office is 

a customer of yours, as she has customers of that particular subdivision. How do you propose to fix that, to make sure that your 

customer is getting the proper service in regards to the proper—— 

Mr. MAO. Well, that is the goal for the Office of the Librarian, 

which is to make sure that all component parts of the Library of 

Congress, whether it be the Copyright Office, the Congressional Research Service, the Law Library, are all receiving the support needed so that they can carry out their missions. And that is the goal 

and that is what we do. 

Mr. NUGENT. Okay. Well, I think we have beat that up enough. 

I appreciate it, Madam Chair. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Vargas. 

Mr. VARGAS. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. A pleasure to 

be here again. 

You know, I always measure things in a very basic way: How 

many complaints do you get versus how many compliments do you 

get on something. And I have to say the Library of Congress is very 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
111 

skewed. I get lots and lots of compliments, very few complaints, the 

truth of the matter. Most people are very, very happy with the Library of Congress and the work they have been doing, and I wanted to say that publicly, because that is certainly what I have experienced. It is not the case with other agencies and other things that 

we do in government. But certainly with the Library of Congress 

it has been very skewed on the compliment side. Again, I wanted 

to say thank you for that. 

I also, though, wanted to say this. Madam Chair, when you mentioned the DMV, there was a little thing that went down my spine, 

and I remember in California we were redoing—I am from California—we were redoing the DMV in our IT processes. And I remember after we spent about $200 million we gave up on that 

process and went back to the drawing board. And this was using 

a lot of those high-tech companies in California that were so expert 

supposedly on this. So again, the IT can be a real nightmare and 

I am very conscious about that. 

But I was happy to hear from GAO, and I would like to question 

you a little bit further on this, and I don’t want to put words in 

your mouth, but when I first heard you describe some of your recommendations I thought that you were leaning more on the negative side. Then you used the words tremendous progress were being 

made, especially in information security. Could you go a little deeper in that? Because, again, I thought that was very positive. 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. In my opening remarks, in the oral statement, 

I summarized primarily the results of our March report. Since that 

report, we have found the Library to be very responsive to our recommendations and they have made excellent progress. There is a 

lot more to do. I think the Library was probably a little overly optimistic in thinking they were going to complete between 12 and 15 

recommendations by September 2015. It is going to take a little 

longer than that, especially to see evidence of the implementation 

of the recommendations. 

Even though it may seem that we are in somewhat of an adversarial position, I feel like we have had a very constructive relationship, that we are all after the same thing, to try to make IT management better. I think along the way we can save some money 

and make things more efficient, and then also focus on the missioncritical needs of some of the service units like the Copyright Office. 

Mr. VARGAS. Excellent. Well, let me ask you a further question 

then. So you are saying that they have made excellent progress but 

they were a little overly optimistic. Where do you think the problems are going to come from for this overly optimistic view that 

they have? 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. Well, I think the reality of this is the central 

provider of services and service units, they are going to have to 

reach agreement on who is going to do what. I think that is going 

to not be an easy process. 

Mr. VARGAS. Do you give recommendations for that? 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. We generally do. I mentioned the term commodity IT a little bit earlier, and that is distinct from mission-critical systems like some of the systems that the Register mentioned. 

Commodity IT includes items such as laptops, cell phones, human 

resource systems, financial management systems, servers, data 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
112 

centers. Those are usually within the purview of the Chief Information Officer. 

When it comes to mission-critical systems, like replacing eCO 

and all of its associated systems, the business side needs to take 

the lead in defining those requirements and then turn it over to IT, 

whether it is internal or to a contractor, and say, ‘‘Here is what I 

need. Give me your solutions. Tell me what you can give me in return.’’ 

Those requirements, that is really with the Register and her 

team to lay out—this is what we want the new system and the new 

process to look like. For example, this is what kind of availability, 

what kind of security, what kind of performance we want it to 

have. 

Mr. VARGAS. Okay. Well, again, I don’t want to put words in your 

mouth, but I think you said that you had a very constructive relationship with them. So I hope that constructive relationship continues and you give some guidance on these issues. 

Mr. WILLEMSSEN. That is just my view. I am not speaking for the 

other two witnesses here. 

Mr. VARGAS. I don’t see them jumping up and saying no, so I will 

take that as an affirmation. 

And lastly, again, I would say that I appreciate the work that the 

Library does. I personally have been very, very impressed with the 

work. 

And, again, thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the time. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

The Chair recognizes Mr. Davis, from Illinois. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

I will not follow up my colleague’s question to get a response 

from you about working together with Mr. Willemssen. I too assume that you guys have a great working relationship. 

It is also interesting to note that most of the discussion here centers upon the Federal Government’s inability to develop better IT 

practices. You are certainly not the only one that is affected by this 

in the Federal Government. And I think we do need to shine a light 

and make it a little more noticeable and put better practices in 

place. 

And, Ms. Pallante, I would like to mention, you know, obviously 

one of the key issues for you and for us is ensuring public availability of the records that you are tasked with keeping. And I know 

there is much more work to be done to put that modern technological infrastructure in place. And I do believe from some of the 

comments we heard today that, and most of you will agree too, the 

government is not the only entity that can fix this problem. 

And without objection, I would like to ask unanimous consent to 

submit a statement from the Internet Archive into the record. 

The CHAIRMAN. So ordered. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. 

I would like you to take a look at this if you have not yet seen 

it, some of their recommendations that can help maybe make some 

progress in what we are discussing here today. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
113 

But my first question, Ms. Pallante, are you looking at any private resources or capabilities to fill the gaps in services or areas 

that the Copyright Office cannot support at this time? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Absolutely. 

Mr. DAVIS. You leveraged some of these resources? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Yes. Copyright law is incredibly intertwined with 

technology. Copyright law has traced technology since 1790, right, 

from the printing press to our iPhones. So the entire copyright ecosystem that we serve are already technology experts. That stakeholder group we would like to have more involvement in the underlying systems that serve them. 

So I guess, going back in time, what I would suggest probably 

was a mistake is not putting out the IT plan that has so fundamentally affected our customers, right? There is nothing that the Copyright Office does that isn’t a public process. We operate under the 

APA. We have to. Courts, you know, have to rely on our opinions, 

et cetera. 

So, oddly, the operational infrastructure that is under the entire 

act of copyright administration was an agency decision internal. 

And, again, I think for us to be able to have technology advisory 

committees, to be able to have flexible Federal contracting, that 

we—again, another service that we get from the mothership but 

which hasn’t worked that well for us—we need much better support in those areas. We need to be able to have short-term and 

long-time hires, both, to have state-of-the-art expertise. We need to 

be able to have interoperability between private sector standards 

and government sectors, otherwise copyright law won’t work. So all 

of that is in our plan. 

Mr. DAVIS. So that is in your plan. I like the connotation of the 

mothership. I haven’t heard that in many hearings. It is interesting 

to get it on your side rather than our side. 

I appreciate your candor. And I know you have made recommendations in your testimony, you have made recommendations 

just now. What question haven’t we asked you that you feel needs 

to be answered that can get us to the point where you come in and 

sit at that table and talk to us about the IT successes and talk to 

us about how eCO or the next generation of eCO is working well? 

Ms. PALLANTE. Well, thank you for that question. The question 

you haven’t asked me is—I guess the question I would ask you is 

why should our copyright customers feel satisfied by a renewed 

commitment to the same central process that just failed us so miserably? 

What we are asking for is the autonomy to make sure that IT 

is intertwined with our business and legal expertise. Quite frankly, 

even if Bud Barton, who is tremendous, and Doug Ament, my CIO, 

can agree that ITS, which is the Library’s IT department, will be 

more responsive, will have better staff, they are still serving seven 

departments that have nothing to do with the Copyright Office. 

They are Library departments. It is a very different mission. 

And it is really odd to me as the Register that everybody reports 

through the Register’s office, the general counsel, the policy experts, the registration experts, the recordation, all the business experts, except the IT, which is somewhere else reporting to someone 

else. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
114 

And so how do we train them in mission? How do we keep them 

integrated so that that it is not separated? Because it is not only 

that it hasn’t worked well, it has been a failure, a complete failure. 

And so that just can’t work in the future. I don’t see any way it 

is going to work. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you. I look forward to working with all 

three of you to work with you toward those successes. So thank 

you. 

I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

The Chair recognizes Mrs. Comstock. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

I too, like Mr. Vargas, appreciate the great work of the Library 

of Congress. I am the daughter of a librarian, so I love my libraries 

and appreciate all the things we are doing there. 

But I am sort of baffled by the sort of the antiquated, I think you 

called it, Ms. Pallante, the 19th century system that we have here. 

And, you know, I noted in your testimony you talked about how 

really it was always intended to be separate, and instead of having 

that autonomy that you need to do your job, we have made it more 

top-down, mothership kind of orientation, which is sort of against 

everything we are all doing these days. The reason we all have our 

own personal phones and things is we still like having flexibility 

whenever our needs demand. 

So I am very interested in making sure, given the important economic driver that you are having, I think there are two very different missions here. The Library of Congress is our history, it is 

Thomas Jefferson. I am from Virginia, I love our Library. But you 

are very tied to this huge international economy. And the idea that 

for 9 days you were down, I just am baffled as to—I mean, 9 hours 

I would be tearing my hair out. Nine minutes, most of us would 

be demanding answers. So for 9 days, that just is clearly a system 

that is not working. 

So I just wanted to maybe expound a little bit more upon how 

we can make what I think is an outmoded and inefficient system 

for you work so that we make sure this important economic driver 

in our economy is going to be maximized to the need, as it should 

be, and what maybe legislative changes or anything we might need 

to do to make sure you are making the most of this great economic 

driver in our economy. 

Ms. PALLANTE. Thank you so much for that. I think that the 

Copyright Office wants a long-term relationship with this committee. We want to be able to put forward suggestions for all kind 

of things on operations. 

But the area where we really disagree, the Copyright Office and 

the Library, and it was referenced by my colleague and boss David 

Mao, is in duplication of IT services. So that is designed—and, 

again, putting aside the conflation of the two missions over time, 

which was really done for operational savings and goes, I think, 

against the reason that Congress created the office. 

The duplication of services can’t mean that there is only one CIO, 

that that CIO makes all decisions with respect to the national 

copyright system, because de facto IT will affect the outcome of the 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
115 

system. And it can’t mean that we can’t develop our own staff of 

technology experts on data to work in our business units. 

I, frankly, think about a third of our staff has to morph into tech 

and data expertise. It used to be cataloguers. Now it needs to be 

technology and data. I don’t know how we can administer the law 

without it. 

And so when you are looking at duplication of IT and you are 

trying to save money, don’t do it at the expense of the copyright 

system. And I think that is really where the real tension is. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Thank you. And I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognizes Mr. Walker. 

Mr. WALKER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. A pleasure to be 

here today. 

I would say that one of the great advocates that you have in Congress on the Library of Congress is Representative Gregg Harper. 

I know he just stepped out. But he loves you guys. He is always 

talking well and always advocating on your behalf. So a little 

kudos for the work to Representative Harper on that. 

Obviously, we have got to get to the 21st century when it comes 

to technology. We can’t be keeping score with an abacus anymore. 

Obviously, with the cyber threats and some of the things that we 

are seeing, serving on Homeland Security and some of the other 

committees that I have a role, and it is specifically going after some 

of the things that we are seeing, whether it is state sponsored, 

whether they are criminally driven, whatever it might be. And I 

think we have got to do a much better job long term on it. 

A couple questions that I have. Let me start with Mr. Mao, if I 

could, please. 

According to the GAO’s report, apparently the Library did not 

know how much it was spending on IT. Can you tell me what is 

the Library doing to make sure that is clearly communicated? I 

think it is a very important point. 

Mr. MAO. Yes. And so we have instituted some processes this 

year that we have just started with this current fiscal year, 2016, 

to make sure that we can track our investment expenditures. And 

we are going to continue to develop that so that we can continue 

to have a better handle on what our investment expenditures are 

going forward. 

Now, that said, we are also working with the Library’s Inspector 

General and working on identifying better ways for us to further 

refine the categories in our financial management system so that 

we can better track some of those. 

Mr. WALKER. You agree, you see why that is important, I would 

imagine, you see why that is important for people to know that you 

guys are confident in knowing how much money is going in there. 

Is that something that—— 

Mr. MAO. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. WALKER. Okay. Your confidence level in the Library’s ability 

to monitor its systems and protect itself against external threats. 

One challenge I was reading and the GAO noted in its report was 

the Library had not conducted complete security testing, stating 

that the Library had installed continuous monitoring, but that 

guidance to service units on how out this policy and regularly carrying out the testing had not always occurred. Can you speak to 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
116 

that and maybe to any improvements the Library has made specifically in that realm? 

Mr. MAO. Yes. And since that recommendation has come out we 

have indeed moved forward with training staff, for example, that 

you mentioned, so that we ensure that they understand what the 

policies are and what it is that they must do to ensure the safety—— 

Mr. WALKER. Kind of working together. Just having the information and knowing what to do with it is very important. 

Mr. MAO. Yes. 

Mr. WALKER. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mao. 

Ms. Pallante, I noticed that some of the records from the Copyright Office are still in paper form. I don’t know if you could put 

an exact number, but what would the value be if this information 

was maybe taken from paper form and put into digital form? I 

would imagine some of this is very important documents. 

Ms. PALLANTE, Yeah. Well, there are two pieces to that. The 

value, to answer your question, would be enormous to the economy, 

to culture, to research. 

Mr. WALKER. Can you try that mic again one more time? 

Ms. PALLANTE. The value would be enormous, to the economy, to 

culture, to research. There are two pieces, though. One is historic 

records that stop in 1978. Those are plausibly important to commerce, but they are old, right? They are much more interesting for 

statistical research and following trends and identifying data 

rights. 

The piece that is still paper that is unforgivable is that the recordation system itself, the process where you come as a company 

or an international business and record your security interest, or 

your copyright interest in major motion pictures, or in software, 

that is still paper-based, which means that people submit it—we 

have moved now to thumb drives—staff then retype it. Then there 

is a verification activity. And that needs to be automated. 

We have done two major reports on that. And the question is, 

who is going to bring it online? Who is going to have the investments? Where are those going to be directed, to the Library or to 

the Copyright Office in some kind of partnership? How is it going 

to work? 

Mr. WALKER. That is a great question. Thank you, Ms. Pallante. 

With that, Madam Chair, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

I thank all the witnesses for being here today. This Committee 

hasn’t had a hearing on the copyright for quite some time, but certainly the GAO report sparked everybody’s interest and attention. 

You can see by the participation that we have had here today that 

there is a great amount of interest from this Committee and a huge 

reservoir of good will toward the Library from every Member of 

Congress, certainly every member on this Committee as well. 

On the other hand, one of my favorite sayings is the largest room 

is the room for improvement. We have a very large room for improvement, particularly with IT for the Copyright Office. I think especially when you think of what a critical component it is, an impetus for the economy, goodness. 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
117 

So I hope you will look at this Committee as a vehicle to help 

resource you and help advocate for what you need to be able to do 

there and not wait for us to ask the question. Please feel free to 

come forward with recommendations that you have on the kinds of 

challenges that you are facing and what you need. Just because 

you don’t hear from us, or because we have a hearing, let’s face it, 

we probably didn’t ask you all the questions you thought you were 

going to get asked. We asked ones that you never thought you were 

going to get asked maybe. So if we didn’t ask the right question, 

let us know about that. 

Without objection, all Members will have 5 legislative days to 

submit to the Chair additional written questions for the witnesses 

that they might have that we will forward and ask you to respond, 

because I am sure all of us will have some. 

[The information follows:] 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING
118 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 160 21529A.089
119 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 161 21529A.090
120 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 164 21529A.093
121 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 165 21529A.094
122 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 166 21529A.095
123 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 167 21529A.096
124 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 168 21529A.097
125 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 169 21529A.098
126 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 170 21529A.099
127 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 171 21529A.100
128 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 172 21529A.101
129 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 173 21529A.102
130 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 174 21529A.103
131 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 175 21529A.104
132 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 176 21529A.105
133 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 177 21529A.106
134 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 178 21529A.107
135 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 179 21529A.108
136 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 180 21529A.109
137 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 181 21529A.110
138 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 182 21529A.111
139 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 183 21529A.112
140 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 184 21529A.113
141 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 185 21529A.114
142 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 186 21529A.115
143 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 187 21529A.116
144 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 188 21529A.117
145 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 189 21529A.118
146 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 190 21529A.119
147 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 191 21529A.120
148 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 192 21529A.121
149 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 193 21529A.122
150 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 194 21529A.123
151 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 195 21529A.124
152 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 196 21529A.125
153 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 197 21529A.126
154 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 198 21529A.127
155 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 199 21529A.128
156 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 200 21529A.129
157 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 201 21529A.130
158 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 202 21529A.131
159 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 203 21529A.132
160 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 204 21529A.133
161 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 205 21529A.134
162 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 206 21529A.135
163 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 207 21529A.136
164 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 208 21529A.137
165 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 209 21529A.138
166 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 210 21529A.139
167 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 211 21529A.140
168 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 212 21529A.141
169 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 213 21529A.142
170 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 214 21529A.143
171 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 215 21529A.144
172 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 216 21529A.145
173 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 217 21529A.146
174 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 218 21529A.147
175 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 219 21529A.148
176 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 220 21529A.149
177 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 221 21529A.150
178 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 222 21529A.151
179 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 223 21529A.152
180 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 224 21529A.153
181 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 225 21529A.154
182 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 226 21529A.155
183 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 227 21529A.156
184 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 228 21529A.157
185 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 229 21529A.158
186 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 230 21529A.159
187 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 231 21529A.160
188 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 232 21529A.161
189 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 233 21529A.162
190 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 234 21529A.163
191 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 235 21529A.164
192 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 236 21529A.165
193 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 237 21529A.166
194 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 238 21529A.167
195 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 239 21529A.168
196 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 240 21529A.169
197 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 241 21529A.170
198 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 242 21529A.171
199 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 243 21529A.172
200 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 244 21529A.173
201 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 245 21529A.174
202 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 246 21529A.175
203 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 247 21529A.176
204 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 248 21529A.177
205 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 249 21529A.178
206 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 250 21529A.179
207 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 251 21529A.180
208 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 252 21529A.181
209 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 253 21529A.182
210 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 254 21529A.183
211 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 255 21529A.184
212 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 256 21529A.185
213 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 257 21529A.186
214 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 258 21529A.187
215 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 259 21529A.188
216 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 260 21529A.189
217 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 261 21529A.190
218 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 262 21529A.191
219 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 263 21529A.192
220 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 264 21529A.193
221 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 265 21529A.194
222 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 266 21529A.195
223 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 267 21529A.196
224 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 268 21529A.197
225 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 269 21529A.198
226 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 270 21529A.199
227 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 271 21529A.200
228 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 272 21529A.201
229 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 273 21529A.202
230 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 274 21529A.203
231 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 275 21529A.204
232 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 276 21529A.205
233 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 277 21529A.206
234 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 278 21529A.207
235 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 279 21529A.208
236 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 280 21529A.209
237 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 281 21529A.210
238 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 282 21529A.211
239 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 283 21529A.212
240 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 284 21529A.213
241 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 285 21529A.214
242 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 286 21529A.215
243 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 287 21529A.216
244 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 288 21529A.217
245 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 289 21529A.218
246 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 290 21529A.219
247 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 291 21529A.220
248 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 292 21529A.221
249 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 293 21529A.222
250 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 294 21529A.223
251 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 295 21529A.224
252 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 296 21529A.225
253 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 297 21529A.226
254 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 298 21529A.227
255 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 299 21529A.228
256 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 300 21529A.229
257 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 301 21529A.230
258 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 302 21529A.231
259 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 303 21529A.232
260 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 304 21529A.233
261 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 305 21529A.234
262 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 306 21529A.235
263 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 307 21529A.236
264 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 308 21529A.237
265 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 309 21529A.238
266 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 310 21529A.239
267 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 311 21529A.240
268 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 312 21529A.241
269 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 313 21529A.242
270 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 314 21529A.243
271 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 315 21529A.244
272 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 316 21529A.245
273 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 317 21529A.246
274 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 318 21529A.247
275 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 319 21529A.248
276 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 320 21529A.249
277 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 321 21529A.250
278 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 322 21529A.251
279 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 323 21529A.252
280 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 324 21529A.253
281 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 325 21529A.254
282 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 326 21529A.255
283 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 327 21529A.256
284 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 328 21529A.257
285 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 329 21529A.258
286 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 330 21529A.259
287 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 331 21529A.260
288 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 332 21529A.261
289 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 333 21529A.262
290 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 334 21529A.263
291 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 335 21529A.264
292 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 336 21529A.265
293 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 337 21529A.266
294 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 338 21529A.267
295 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 340 21529A.269
296 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 341 21529A.270
297 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 342 21529A.271
298 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 343 21529A.272
299 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 344 21529A.273
300 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 345 21529A.274
301 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 346 21529A.275
302 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 347 21529A.276
303 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 348 21529A.277
304 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 349 21529A.278
305 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 350 21529A.279
306 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 351 21529A.280
307 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 352 21529A.281
308 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 353 21529A.282
309 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 354 21529A.283
310 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 355 21529A.284
311 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 356 21529A.285
312 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 357 21529A.286
313 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 358 21529A.287
314 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 359 21529A.288
315 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 360 21529A.289
316 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 361 21529A.290
317 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 362 21529A.291
318 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 363 21529A.292
319 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 364 21529A.293
320 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 365 21529A.294
321 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 366 21529A.295
322 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 367 21529A.296
323 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 368 21529A.297
324 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 369 21529A.298
325 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 370 21529A.299
326 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 371 21529A.300
327 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 372 21529A.301
328 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 373 21529A.302
329 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 374 21529A.303
330 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 375 21529A.304
331 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 376 21529A.305
332 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 377 21529A.306
333 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 378 21529A.307
334 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 379 21529A.308
335 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 380 21529A.309
336 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 381 21529A.310
337 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 382 21529A.311
338 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 383 21529A.312
339 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 384 21529A.313
340 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 385 21529A.314
341 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 386 21529A.315
342 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 387 21529A.316
343 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 388 21529A.317
344 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 389 21529A.318
345 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 390 21529A.319
346 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 391 21529A.320
347 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 392 21529A.321
348 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 393 21529A.322
349 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 394 21529A.323
350 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 395 21529A.324
351 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 396 21529A.325
352 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 397 21529A.326
353 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 398 21529A.327
354 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 399 21529A.328
355 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 400 21529A.329
356 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 401 21529A.330
357 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 402 21529A.331
358 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 403 21529A.332
359 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 404 21529A.333
360 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 405 21529A.334
361 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 406 21529A.335
362 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 407 21529A.336
363 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 408 21529A.337
364 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 409 21529A.338
365 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 410 21529A.339
366 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 411 21529A.340
367 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 412 21529A.341
368 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 413 21529A.342
369 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 414 21529A.343
370 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 415 21529A.344
371 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 416 21529A.345
372 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 417 21529A.346
373 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 418 21529A.347
374 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 419 21529A.348
375 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 420 21529A.349
376 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 421 21529A.350
377 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 422 21529A.351
378 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 423 21529A.352
379 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 424 21529A.353
380 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 425 21529A.354
381 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 426 21529A.355
382 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 427 21529A.356
383 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 428 21529A.357
384 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 429 21529A.358
385 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 430 21529A.359
386 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 431 21529A.360
387 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 432 21529A.361
388 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 433 21529A.362
389 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 434 21529A.363
390 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 435 21529A.364
391 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 436 21529A.365
392 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 437 21529A.366
393 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 438 21529A.367
394 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 439 21529A.368
395 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 440 21529A.369
396 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 441 21529A.370
397 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 442 21529A.371
398 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 443 21529A.372
399 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 444 21529A.373
400 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 445 21529A.374
401 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 446 21529A.375
402 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 447 21529A.376
403 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 448 21529A.377
404 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 449 21529A.378
405 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 450 21529A.379
406 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 451 21529A.380
407 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 452 21529A.381
408 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 453 21529A.382
409 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 454 21529A.383
410 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 455 21529A.384
411 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 456 21529A.385
412 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 457 21529A.386
413 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 458 21529A.387
414 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 459 21529A.388
415 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 460 21529A.389
416 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 461 21529A.390
417 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 462 21529A.391
418 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 463 21529A.392
419 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 464 21529A.393
420 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 465 21529A.394
421 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 466 21529A.395
422 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 467 21529A.396
423 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 468 21529A.397
424 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 469 21529A.398
425 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 470 21529A.399
426 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 471 21529A.400
427 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 472 21529A.401
428 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 473 21529A.402
429 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 474 21529A.403
430 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 475 21529A.404
431 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 476 21529A.405
432 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 477 21529A.406
433 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 478 21529A.407
434 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 479 21529A.408
435 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 480 21529A.409
436 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 481 21529A.410
437 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 482 21529A.411
438 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 483 21529A.412
439 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 484 21529A.413
440 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 485 21529A.414
441 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 486 21529A.415
442 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 487 21529A.416
443 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 488 21529A.417
444 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 489 21529A.418
445 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 490 21529A.419
446 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 491 21529A.420
447 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 492 21529A.421
448 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 493 21529A.422
449 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 494 21529A.423
450 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 495 21529A.424
451 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 496 21529A.425
452 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 497 21529A.426
453 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 498 21529A.427
454 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 499 21529A.428
455 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 500 21529A.429
456 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 501 21529A.430
457 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 502 21529A.431
458 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 503 21529A.432
459 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 504 21529A.433
460 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 505 21529A.434
461 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 506 21529A.435
462 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 507 21529A.436
463 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 508 21529A.437
464 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 509 21529A.438
465 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 510 21529A.439
466 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 511 21529A.440
467 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 512 21529A.441
468 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 513 21529A.442
469 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 514 21529A.443
470 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 515 21529A.444
471 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 516 21529A.445
472 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 517 21529A.446
473 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 518 21529A.447
474 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 519 21529A.448
475 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 520 21529A.449
476 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 521 21529A.450
477 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 522 21529A.451
478 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 523 21529A.452
479 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 524 21529A.453
480 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 525 21529A.454
481 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 526 21529A.455
482 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 527 21529A.456
483 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 528 21529A.457
484 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 529 21529A.458
485 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 530 21529A.459
486 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 531 21529A.460
487 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 532 21529A.461
488 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 533 21529A.462
489 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 534 21529A.463
490 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 535 21529A.464
491 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 536 21529A.465
492 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 537 21529A.466
493 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 538 21529A.467
494 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 539 21529A.468
495 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 540 21529A.469
496 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 541 21529A.470
497 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 542 21529A.471
498 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 543 21529A.472
499 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 544 21529A.473
500 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 545 21529A.474
501 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 546 21529A.475
502 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 547 21529A.476
503 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 548 21529A.477
504 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 549 21529A.478
505 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 550 21529A.479
506 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 551 21529A.480
507 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 552 21529A.481
508 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 553 21529A.482
509 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 554 21529A.483
510 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 555 21529A.484
511 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 556 21529A.485
512 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 557 21529A.486
513 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 558 21529A.487
514 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 559 21529A.488
515 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 560 21529A.489
516 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 561 21529A.490
517 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 562 21529A.491
518 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 563 21529A.492
519 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 564 21529A.493
520 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 565 21529A.494
521 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 566 21529A.495
522 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 567 21529A.496
523 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 568 21529A.497
524 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 569 21529A.498
525 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 570 21529A.499
526 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 571 21529A.500
527 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 572 21529A.501
528 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 573 21529A.502
529 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 574 21529A.503
530 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 575 21529A.504
531 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 576 21529A.505
532 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 577 21529A.506
533 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 578 21529A.507
534 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 579 21529A.508
535 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 580 21529A.509
536 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 581 21529A.510
537 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 582 21529A.511
538 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 583 21529A.512
539 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARINGInsert graphic folio 584 21529A.513
540 

The CHAIRMAN. Typical, right? You go back to your office, all of 

a sudden you think, geez, I should have asked them this. 

At any rate, we thank you all very much. We look forward to continuing to work with all of you for our mutual constituency, quite 

frankly. We all have the same constituent in this case, the American taxpayer. 

Without objection, this hearing is now adjourned. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

Æ 


lotter on DSK5VPTVN1PROD with HEARING