DISPOSITION OF CEMETERIES IN THE PANAMA CANAL

ZONE WHERE AMERICAN VETERANS ARE BURIED

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON

CEMETERIES AND BURIAL BENEFITS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

NINETY-FIFTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

EFFECT OF PROPOSED PANAMA CANAL TREATY ON

AMERICANS BURIED IN THE PANAMA CANAL ZONE

MARCH 1, 1978

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

U.S. GOVE'RNMENTP PRINTING 01 1ICE

24-864 WASHINGTON : 1978
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

RAY ROBERTS, Texas, Chairman

OLIN E. TEAGUE, Texas JOHN PAUL HAMMERSCHMIDT,

DAVID E. SATTERFIELD III, Virginia Arkansas

DON EDWARDS, California MARGARET M. HECKLER, Massachusetts

G. V. (SONNY) MONTGOMERY, CHALMERS P. WYLIE, Ohio

Mississippi ELWOOD HILLIS, Indiana

CHARLES J. CARNEY. Ohio JAMES ABDNOR, South Dakota

GEORGE E. DANIELSON, California WILLIAM F. WALSH. New York

LESTER L. WOLFF, New York TENNYSON GUYER, Ohio

JACK BRINKLEY, Georgia GEORGE HANSEN, Idaho

RONALD M. MOTTL. Ohio HAROLD S. SAWYER, Michigan

ROBERT J. CORNELL, Wisconsin

W. G. (BILL) HEFNER, North Carolina

MARK W. HANNAFORD. California

EDWARD P. BEARD, Rhode Island

ROBERT W. EDGAR, Pennsylvania

CLIFFORD ALLEN, Tennessee

SAM B. HALL, JR., Texas

DOUGLAS APPLEGATE, Ohio

DOUG BARNARD, Georgia

A. M. WILLIs, JR., Staff Director

SUBCOMMITTEE ON CEMETERIES AND BURIAL BENEFITS

CHARLES J. CARNEY, Chairman

GEORGE DANIELSON, California ELWOOD P. HILLIS, Indiana

RAY ROBERTS, Texas JOHN PAUL HAMMERSCHMIDT,

EDWARD P. BEARD, Rhode Island Arkansas

JACK BRINKLEY, Georgia GEORGE HANSEN, Idaho

ROBERT J. CORNELL, Wisconsin HAROLD S. SAWYER, Michigan

DOUGLAS APPLEGATE, Ohio

DOUG BARNARD, Georgia

(II)
CONTENTS

Page

Adams, Maj. Gen. A. J. (See American Battle Monuments Commi>iun.)

American Battle Monmuents Commissiun: Adams, Maj. Gen. A. J., Secretary--------------------------------------------- 6, 10-13, 15-16

Barnard, Hon. Doug --------------------------------------------- 16-18

Blumenfeld, Michael. (See Department of the Army.)

Carney, lion. Charles J_-- _---__1, --- 4-6, 9-10, 12, 14-17, 78

Constant, Thomas M. (See Panana Canal Company.)

Department of State, Office of Panamanian Affairs: Wvrough, Richard,

Deputy Director and Senior Adviser for Treaty Affair _---------__ _ _- 6 9, 16-18

Department of the Army: Blumenfeld, Michael, Deputy Under Secretary

of the Army---------_-_ _--_--_-_ --- -- 9, 15, 18

Disabled American Veterans: Gardiner, William B., national director of

legislation- _---_----_---___---_-_--_-_-----_-_---_--__ --- ____.-_19

Gardiner, William B. (See Disabled American Veterans.)

Panama Canal Company:

Constant, Thomas M., Secretary------- -- _--_--_-__3-4, 6, 15, 17

Parfitt, H. R., President-_---___- _-_-------._-__-1-2

Parfitt, H. R. (See Panama Canal Company.)

Roberts, Hon. Ray --------------------------------------------- 5

Schwab, Donald. (See Veterans of Foreign Wars.)

Stover, Frank. (See Veterans Affair- Committee staff.)

Veterans Affairs Committee staff: Stover. Fank---_-_-_--_--__ 13, 15, 17-18

veteranss of Foreign Wars: Schwab, Donald, legi-lative director------- 6, 14-15

Wyrough, Richard. (See Department of State.)

(M)
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in 2013

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HEARINGS TO RECEIVE TESTIMONY ON DISPOSITION

OF TWO CEMETERIES IN THE PANAMA CANAL ZONE

WHERE AMERICANS ARE BURIED

WEDNESDAY, ARCH 1, 1978

SUBCOMMITTEE ON CEMETERIES AND BURIAL BENEFITS,

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS, U.S. HOUSE OF

REPRESENTATIVES

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice at 10 a.m., in Room

340, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Charles J. Carney, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.

Mr. CARNEY. The subcommittee will be in order.

This morning we begin hearings on the disposition of two cemeteries

in the Panama Canal Zone where American veterans are buried.

While the Senate debates the merits of the proposed treaty, there

remain some unanswered questions about Corozal Cemetery on the

Pacific side of the zone and Mount Hope Cemetery on the Atlantic

side. These two cemeteries are under the jurisdiction of the Panama

Canal Company and were first established for the burial of company

employees.

The company is a corporate agency of the U.S. Government, operated by a Board of Governors appointed by the Secretary of the Army. Management of the cemeteries is by a staff similar in status to career

Civil service personnel and includes U.S. military officers.

Mount Hope Cemetery contains the graves of 1,332 Americans, 175 of them veterans. It also contains the graves of 36,878 nonAmericans who were involved in some way with the construction or

operation of the canal.

The Corozal Cemetery contains the graves of 741 veterans. In

both cemeteries, veterans' graves are scattered throughout, not contained in a restricted area for veterans only. From information sup- plied us by the president, Harold R. Parfitt, it appears that nearly

every State in the Union is represented by these gravesites.

I would like to enter into the record the State-by-State breakdown

of interred veterans provided us by the Panama Canal Company. This partial information will be supplemented by the full count when

it is complete. I would like to thank the company for its efforts to

provide us this information on such short notice.

[Information follows:]

PANAMACANAL CONIPANY,

Oj 1(1: (lr rm: PiRsInENT,

Baulboa Iei''htIs, Canal Zoe, FeIruary $4, 1/8. Hion. RAY ROBERTS,

Chairraii, Committee on Velerans Affairs, House of Represetlatives.

DEAR MR. CHAIRAN: In response to vour request of February 15, there is

attached a partial listing of the home states of veterans interred in Corozail anld

(1)
2

Mt. Hope cemeteries in the Canal Zone. Additional research of records is being conducted to complete the listing, and I hope to be able to forward that information to you early next week.

Sincerely yours,

H. R. PARFITT,

President.

Enclosure.

VETERANS INTERRED AT MOUNT HOPE AND COROZAL CEMETERIES BY HOME STATE

State Corozal Mount Hope Total

Alabama -------------------------------------------------- 3 1 4 Arizona --------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Arkansas -------------------------------------------------- 3 3 California ------------------------------------------------- 17 2 19 Colorado -------------------------------------------------- 4 4

Connecticut ------------------------------------------------ 9 11

Delaware

District of Columbia ---------------------------------------------------------------- Florida --------------------------------------------------- 8 1 9 Georgia -------------------------------------------------- 12 2 14

Idaho --------------------------------------- --------- 1

Illinois ------------------------------------------------- 24-------- -1 25

Indiana -------------------------------------------------- 11 4 15

Iowa ----------------------------------------------------- 5 1 6

Kansas ------------------------------------------------ ------------- 3

Kentucky ------------------------------------------------- 10 1 11

Louisiana -------------------------------------------------- 4 2 6

Maine ---------------------------------------------------- 5 1 6

Maryland 7-- .----------------------------------

. 7------------

Massachusetts ---------------------------------------------- 24 5 29

Michigan -------------------------------------------------- 9 1 10

Minnesota ------------------------------------------------- 6 1 7

Mississippi ------------------------------------------------- 2 2

Missouri -------------------------------------------------- 13 2 15

Montana

Nebraska -------------------------------------------------- 2 2

Nevada

New Hampshire - - New Jersey------------------------------------------------19 19

New Mexico ------------------------------------------------ 1- 1

New York ---- 472----------------------------

Norh Carolina ---------------------------------

10

North Dakota 2-_------------------------------------------2 2

Ohio ---------------------------------------------------- 14 2 16

Oklahoma ------------------------------------------------- 7 1 8

Oregon --------------------------------------------------- 1 2 3

Pennsylvania ---------------------------------------------- 46 7 53

Rhode Island ---------------------------------------------- 15 - 15

South Carolina ---------------------------------------------- 7 1 8

South Dakota ----------------------------------------------- 2 ----- 2

Tennessee ------------------------------------------------ 12 1 13

Texas --------------------------------------------------- 14 2 16

Utah ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Vermont -------------------------------------------- 1 1

Virginia -------------------------------------------------- 13 4 17

Washington ------------------------------------------- -- I

West Virginia ----------------------------------------------- 9---- ---- 9

Wisconsin ------------------------------------------------- 7 1 8

Wyoming -------------------------------------------------- -------------------- Alaska ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hawaii --------------------------------------------------------- CanalZone ------------------------------------------------ 28 6 34

Philippines ----------------------------------------------- 14 7 21

Puerto Rico ----------------------------------------------- 36 2 38

Scotland-----------------------------------------------1 1

Canada 1 ---------------------------------------

1

Korea ---------------------------------------------------- I 1

Russia --------------------------------

Virgin Islands --------------------------------- - ----------- Ireland -------------------------------------------------------- 1

Cuba--------------------------------------------------- I-------------- I

Panama ---- 10 ------------ 10

West Indies --------------------------------------- -----------1 1

Subtotal ------------------------------------------------ 518 77 595

Information not immediately available ------------------------------ 216 98 314

Total.-------------734 175 909

I Being compiled to extent possible from hospital records and will be furnished as soon as possible.
3

PANAMA CANAL COMPANY,

Washington, D.C., February 28, 1978.

Hon. RAY ROBERTs,

Chairman, Committee on Veterans Affairs,

House of Representatives.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: On February 24, Governor Parfitt advised you that

additional research into our records was being conducted to compile a complete

listing of the home states of veterans interred in Corozal and Mt. Hope Cemeteries

in the Canal Zone. That research has now been completed and I am forwarding

herewith a complete list of the home state or country of such veterans.

This list supersedes the partial listing furnished with the Governor's letter of

February 24.

Sincerely yours,

THOMAS M. CONSTANT,

Secretary.

Enclosure.

VETERANS INTERRED AT MOUNT HOPE AND COROZAL CEMETERIES, CANAL ZONE, BY HOME STATE, COUNTRY, OR

AREA

State, etc. Corozal Mount Hope Total

Alabama --------------------------------------------------- 3 3 6

Alaska-- - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arizona ---------------------------------------------------- 1

Arkansas -------------------------------------------------- 3 3

California-19 2 21

Colorado --------------------------------------------------- 5 1 6

Connecticut_ 11 3 14

Florida Gloria------------------------------------------------------ r2----------------------------------------------------------- 11 91 2 1 Georgia ---------------------------------------------------- 2 16

Illinois ----------------------------------------------------- 34

Indiana -- 33-----------

Iowa ----------------------------------------------------- 7 2 9

Hawaii---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kansas ---------------------------------------------------- 6 3 9

Kentucky -------------------------------------------------- 10 2 12

Louisiana-- 5 2 7

Maine ---------------------------------------------------- 7 2 9

Maryland. -9 1 10

Massachusetts ---------------------------------------------- 27 5 32

Michigan -------------------------------------------------- 10 1 11

Minnesota -------------------------------------------------- 7 1 8

Mississippi ------------------------------------------------- 2-----------

Missouri -------------------------------------------------- 18 3 21

Montana------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nebraska-3 1 4

NevadaNew Hampshire--------------- New Jersey ------------------------------------------------ 23 5 28

New Mexico ------------------------------------------------ 1 1

New York ------------------------------------------------- 71 91

North Carolina ---------------------------------------------- 19 1 20

North Dakota ------------------------------------------------ 2 2

Ohio-3-------------------------------------------------- 13 22

Oklahoma -------------------------------------------------- 8 2 10

Oregon ---------------------------------------------------- 1 2 3

Pennsylvania-59 9 68

Rhode Island ----------------------------------------------- 16 16

South Carolina ----------------------------------------------- 8 1 9

South Dakota ------------------------------------------------ 2 2

Tennessee ------------------------------------------------- 14 1 15

Texas ---------------------------------------------------- 19 2 21

Utah.

Vermont----------------------- ---------------------------- Virginia --------------------------------------------------- 13 4 17

Washington--------------------------------------- 2 1 3

West Virginia-- 10 1 11

Wisconsin-------------- 8 2 10

Wyoming

Subtotal --------------------------------------------- 520 100 620
4

VETERANS INTERRED AT MOUNT HOPE AND COROZAL CEMETERIES, CANAL ZONE, BY HOME STATE, COUNTRY, OR

AREA-Continued

State, etc. Corozal Mount Hope Total

Canal Zone ----------------------------------------------------- 39 6 45

Phillipines- 20 10 30

Puerto Rico ---------------------------------------------------- 43 2 45

Scotland ------------------------------------------------------- 3 3

Canada -------------------------------------------------------- 3 3

Korea --------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Russia --------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Virgin Islands ---------------------------------------------------- 3 3

Ireland ----------------------------------------------- 2 2

Cuba ---------------------------------------------------------- 2 2

Panama ------------------------------------------------------- 15 6 21

West Indies ----------------------------------------------------- 7 4 11

England -------------------------------------------------------- 3 3

New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Australia ------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Costa Rica ------------------------------------------------------ 1 1

Italy ---------------------------------------------------------- 2 4

Spain --------------------------------------------------------- 2 2

Sweden -------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Germany ------------------------------------------------------- 1 2 3

Denmark ------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Norway -------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Holland-1 1

Peru ---------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Poland --------------------------------------------------------- 1 1

Nicaragua ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 2

Subtotal ------------------------------------------------- 156 34 190

Not identifiable -------------------------------------------------- 58 41 99

Total --------------------------------------------------- 734 175 909

Mr. CARNEY. In the draft of the Panama Canal Zone Treaty, according to the State Department, the Corozal Cemetery would

remain under U.S. control until the Canal is completely returned to

the control of the Government of Panama. Mount Hope Cemetery

would pass immediately to Panamanian control after the treaty is

ratified. It is my understanding that there is no provision in the treaty

for maintenance of Mount Hope.

The State Department and the Department of the Army have

informed our committee that three alternatives are being considered:

One, negotiate an agreement with Panama to preserve and maintain

these cemeteries; two, authorize the American Battle Monuments

Commission to assume responsibility for maintaining the graves;

and three, to seek enactment of legislation that would provide for the

disinterment and reinterment of veterans' remains in a national

cemetery in the United States at Government expense.

I believe we must look to these or some other alternatives to mak e

sure the grave sites of American veterans buried in the Panama

Canal Zone will continue to receive the same fine care and respect

they have been accorded in the past. I trust that the testimony from

these witnesses this morning will make clear the administration's

position in this matter.

The chairman of the full Committee on Veterans' Affairs, the

Honorable Ray Roberts, is deeply concerned about this matter and

regrets that prior commitments in his district in Texas prevent his

attending this hearing today. He has prepared a statment setting out

some of his thoughts about these Panama Canal Zone grave sites and,

without objection, I would like to enter it into the record at this

point.

[The statement follows:]
5

STATEMENT OF HON. RAY ROBERTS, SUBCOMMITTEE ON CEMETERIES

AND BURIAL BENEFITS

Our colleagues in the Senate are debating the merits of the proposed treaty

and, of course, its ratification is their responsibility. Along with their deliberations,

international law scholars, military men, journalists, columnists and the general

public are having their say. All that is as it should be. The time for discussion is before ratification, not

after the documents are signed. Now is the time for questions to be raised and resolved, not after the ink is dry on the signatures.

These hearings are necessary so those of us who are concerned about the future

of these grave sites in the Panama Canal Zone can seek answers to some of the

questions that disturb us.

Quite apart from questions about whose land this is, was, or will be, the plot

where an American veteran lies is forever America. These graves must not be

allowed to deteriorate. There must be some assurance they will never be desecrated or vandalized.

I take this to be a proposition that no one will dispute. It has been said before

that the quality of a civilization is revealed in the way it reveres its dead. However the many questions surrounding the Panama Canal Treaty are resolved,

we must do what is necessary to preserve these veterans' grave sites as a perpetual

memorial if they are to remain where they are.

Unless there is an agreement written into the treaty to accomplish this goal,

it would appear that some legislation will be necessary to permit the removal of

the remains of these veterans to national cemeteries by relatives or interested

organizations.

I look forward to the testimony of the Administration witnesses so we can form

a judgment about our responsibilities in this matter.

Mr. CARNEY. Chairman Roberts very strongly points out that

we have to take care of the veterans' graves.

We have a number of witnesses, and this is a very busy day. I

should have been somewhere else myself right now-at another

important subcommittee meeting. I am going to ask the gentlemen

who testify to paraphrase their statements. The statements will be

entered into the record completely; however, I would like you to

summarize your statements, and then I imagine some other members

will be here. We may have some questions for you from the counsel.

I would like to enter into the record, without objection, a Library

of Congress congressional survey done for this committee. They say

the Panama Canal Zone cemeteries, the Atlantic side, Mount Hope

Cemetery has 56 acres and the Pacific side has 63 acres. Without

objection, 1 would like to enter this into the record.

[The material follows:

THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS,

CONGRESSIONAL REsEARCH SERVICE,

Washington, D.C.

To: lon. Charles Carney.

Re: Panama Canal Zone Cemeteries.

Attn: Anthony.

In response to your request for information on the two cemetaries which are

located in the Canal Zone, the following information was obtained after calling

the Panama Canal Company:

24-864-78-2
6

PANAMA CANAL ZONE CEMETERIES

Atlantic Side---iNlount Hope Cemetery:

56 acres.

38,210 total graves.

1,332 U.S. citizens.

175 U.S. veterans.

Mount Hope is presently reaching its capacity, it will be turned over to the

government of Panama if the (proposed) treaty is ratified.

Pacific Side-Corozal Cemetery.

63 acres.

15,169 total graves.

2,661 U.S. citizens.

741 U.S. veterans.

Corozal will be turned over to the Department of Defense, if the (proposed)

treaties are ratified.

LINWOOD B. CARTER.

Mr. CARNEY. I would like the gentlemen first to identify themselves by name and title, starting with this gentleman on the right.

General ADA JS. I am General A. J. Adams, Secretary of the

American Battle Monuments Commission.

Mr. BLUMIENFELD. Michael Blumenfehl, Deputy Under Secretary

of the Army.

Mr CONSTANT. I am Tiomas Constant from the Panama Canal

Comtpan\.

Mr. WYROUGH. Richard Wyroiugh of the Department of State.

Mr. SCi-nwAi. Donald Schwab of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of

the United States.

Mr. CARNEY. We thank you gentlemen for coming on such short

notice. We are very sorry that we do not have more of the subcommittee here.

Mr. Blumenfeld, will you summarize your statement now, please?

Your printed statement will be included in the record at this point.

[Statement follows:1

STATEMENT OFi' MICHAEL BLUMENFELD, DEPUTY UNDER SECRETARY OF THE ARMY

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee on Cemeteries and Burial

Benefits:

I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you this morning in order to

review the Administration's plans to assure that the remains of Americans buried

n the Canal Zone will continue to receive the same care and respect under a new

treaty as presently prevails.

Appearing with Mr. Wyrough; General Adams, of the American Battle Monuments Commission; and myself this morning is Mr. Thomas M. Constant, Secretary of the Panama Canal Company.

Mr. Chairman, our plan of presentation is as follows: I would like first to review

the situation which currently exi-its in the Canal Zone regarding the cemeteries.

After that brief presentation, my Department of State colleague, Mr. Wyrough,

will apprise you of the options which have been considered by the Administration

in order to amrq the proper care of American remains in the Canal Zone. Finally,

General Adams will present the Administration's preferred alternative for protecting these American remains. After these three presentations, we will answer

any questions which the Committee may have.

At this time, I would like to provide some essential background information

regarding United States cemetery operations in the Canal Zone today. As you

may already know, there are only two cemeteries located within the Zone. The

Mount Hope Cemetery, some 63 acre- in size, is located on the Atlantic side of the

Isthmus just outside the Panamanian City of Colon. The Corozal Cemetery,

some 56 acres in area-alnost the same size as Mount Hope, is located on the

Pacific side of the Isthmus.

The Panama Canal Treaty of 1977 calls for Mount Hope Cemetery (Atlantic

side) to be relinquishe(d to the Republic of Panama on the effective date of the
7

treaty, that is six months after the exchange of instruments of ratification. The

Corozal Cemetery, on the other hand, will be transferred to the control of the

United States military on the effective date of the treaty. At the beginning of the

year 2000, when the Panama Canal Treaty terminates, Corozal Cemetery will

also pass to the Republic of Panama.

The Canal Enterprise now has full responsibility for the operation and cire

of these cemeteries. Some 15 full-time employees maintain lount Hope, while

a force of 11 employees care for the Corozal Cemetery.

Let me review briefly the scope of operations of the two cemeteries. First

Mount Hope: Mount Hope is the primary cemetery on the Atlantic side of the

Isthmus and thus it serves not only the needs of the Canal Zone, but also those

of the Republic of Panama. Since Mount hope is the only cemetery available to

the City of Colon, the number of non-United Statcs citizens interred there has

grown substantially over the past years. Today some .37,000 non-United States

citizens are buried in Mount Hope. This is compared to a total of 1,508 United

States citizens of whom 175 are veterans.

Mr. Chairman, as you can see, some 95 percent of the Mount, Hope Cemetery

is devoted to non-United States citizens and of the United States citizens buried

there, about 175, or 12 percent, are veterans. I would point out also that the cemetery conducts from 35 to 40 Panamanian burials a month. So the population is

continuing to grow.

The situation at Corozal Cemetery is substantially different. Since the Republic

of Panama has four cemeteries on the Pacific side of the Isthmus (one private

and three municipal), the demand on Corozal, in the Canal Zone, is not as great

as that which exists at Mount Hope. In fact, we have limited Corozal interment

to United States and non-United States citizen Canal Enterprise employees and

retirees, United States Military personnel and retirees and United 8t -es veterans.

The total population of Corozal Cemetery is approximated at 16,000, less than

half the population of Mount Hope. Of this number, 3,395 (21 percent) are United

States citizens (some 734 of these are veterans). The Corozal Cemetery conducts

approximately 20 funerals per month of which less than 10 percent are for United

States citizens.

In summary, we have approximately 4,900 Unit(d States citizens interred in

the Canal Zone (one third of these are at Mount Hope on the Atlantic side and

two-thirds are at Corozal on the Pacific side). There are 909 veterans buried in

the Zone, 20 percent of these are at Mount H ope. For your further information

and the record, I have attached to my statement a st atistical data sheet on the

Canal Zone cemeteries.

Mr. Chairman, at this time Mr. Wvrough of the Department of State will

review for the Subcommittee options which have been considered by the Administration in order to assure that proper care and respect for United States citizens

buried in the Canal Zone is continued under the new treaty.

Statistical data on Canal Zone cemeteries

Size of Cemeteries (acres):

Mount Hope-------_--__--_---_-_- 63. 3

Corozal- --- - _ - __-__-_- -- 56. 0

Interments (as of 31 December 1977):

Mount Hope:

Total U.S. citizens-, 508

U.S. veterans-175

Other U.S. cities 1, 3:1

Non-U.S. citizens36, 944

Tota L8,I452

Corozal:

Total 1.S. citizens , 1-)

U.S. Vet(eranls- 7- 4

Other U.S. Citizen> -- 266

Non-V.S. citizens 12. 587

T()tal 1 1, 1 .132
8

Statistical data on Canal Zone cemeteries-Continued

Budget (fiscal year 1979):

Mount Hope-$142, 000

Corozal ------------------------------------------------- $144, 000

Total. - - -$286, 000

Employees:

Mount Hope15

Corozal----------------------------11

Mr. BLUMENFELD. Yes, sir. Let me say, in pref ace, that the numbers

you cited on the veterans' graves are correct and are in accord with

the latest data which we have. There will be some minor difference,

which I would like to enter into the record, in the total population,

not the veteran population of the cemeteries. This is based on a later

count than I believe you had before you.

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL BLUMENFELD, DEPUTY UNDER

SECRETARY OF THE ARMY

Mr. BLUMENFELD. The canal enterprise now has full responsibility

for the operation and care of both Mount Hope and Corozal. Fifteen

employees maintain Mount Hope and about 11 employees maintain

Corozal.

The cemeteries are really quite different in the scope of their operations, and I would like to talk about that for just a minute. Mount

Hope is the primary cemetery on the Atlantic side of the isthmus, and

it serves not only the needs of the Canal Zone, but also those of the

Republic of Panama. Since Mount Hope is the only cemetery available

to the city of Colon on the Atlantic side, the number of non-U.S.

citizens interred there is large and has been growing. About 37,000

non-U.S. citizens are buried in Mount Hope, and this compares to

an exact total of 1,508 U.S. citizens, of whom 175, as you identified,

are veterans. So 95 percent of Mount Hope is devoted to non-U.S.

citizens. Of those U.S. citizens who are buried there, about 12 percent

are veterans. Right now, the activity at Mount Hope is such that

there are 35 to 40 burials per month of Panamanian nationals. Last

year, there were only nine burials of U.S. citizens in Mount Hope.

Corozal, as I mentioned, is very different. The Republic of Panama

has four cemeteries on the Pacific side, and so Corozal cemetary does

not serve the same kind of need on the Pacific side as Mount Hope

does on the Atlantic side. In fact, interment at Corozal has been

limited for some time to U.S. and non-U.S. citizen employees of the

canal enterprise as well as retirees, U.S. military personnel, and

veterans. The total population of Corozal is about 16,000. It is less

than half as big as Mount Hope. About 21 percent of those interred

there are U.S. citizens and about 22 percent of those U.S. citizens are

veterans.

Corozal has much less activity at this time than Mount Hope,

conducting about 20 funerals per month, of which about 2 are

Americans.

Just to summarize quickly, there are about 4,900 U.S. citizens

interred in the Canal Zone, a third of them on the Atlantic side in

Mount Hope, two-thirds at Corozal on the Pacific side. And 909

veterans are buried in the zone, of which about one-fifth are at Mount

Hope. Attached to the statement which will go in the record is a
9

further statistical data sheet on the operation of both cemeteries.

At this time, my colleague, Mr. Wyrough of the Department of

State, will review in greater detail the options which you have

identified as being considered by the administration in order to assure

that proper care and respect will be given to these gravesites under the

new treaty.

Mr. CARNEY. Your entire printed statement will be included in

the record at this point, Mr. Wvrough.

[Statement follows:]

STATEMENT OF RICHARD WYROUGH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND SENIOR ADVISER

FOR TREATY AFFAIRS, OFFICE OF PANAMANIAN AFFAIRS

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I am very pleased on behalf

of the Department of State to be able to discuss with you the Administration's

plans concerning the proper care under the new treaties of Americans buried in

what is now the Canal Zone. I was a member of the United States delegation that

negotiated the treaties, and I must say that it is a matter which was not specifically addressed during the negotiations. We first examined the question sometime

after the treaties were signed in September 1977 as we began to turn our attention

to the details of planning their eventual implementation.

The Administration has explored in a preliminary way several possible solutions

to the problem. We have not yet, however, approached the Panamanians with

our ideas, although they are aware of the matter.

As Assistant Secretary Blumenfeld mentioned, our immediate concern has

been with Mt. Hope Cemetery, since it will be one of the properties turned over

to Panama when the treaties are implemented. One option we have considered,

inasmuch as Mt. Hope is actively being used by Panama today and would presumably continue to be so when it reverts to actual Panamanian control, is to

negotiate an agreement for the maintenance of the American sector of the cemetery. Possible problems in connection with this option include funding, assuring

proper American oversight responsibilities of the maintenance work, and assuring

general access to American gravesites for relatives and friends of those who

are interred in the cemetery.

A second option is to offer a proposal to the next of kin of the deceased Americans

buried at Mt. hope whereby the United States Government at its expense would

disinter the remains, transport them to the -United States and reinter them at a

site chosen by the relatives. All other costs associated with the move, such as

purchase of the burial plot, headstone, etc., would be borne by the next of kin.

Apart from the question of where to find the funding for our Government's

portion of this proposAl, there are other problems, such as the difficulty in locating

the next of kin, what to do with the remains of those not claimed by next of kin,

making arrangements for next of kin who claim the remains, but cannot afford

the costs involved, etc.

As you can see, the problem is a thorny one, and the possible solutions I have

discussed are not without their dirawblacks. However, As Assistant Secretary

Blumenfeld mentione I, we do hLve a propos'd to put before you which we think

presents a feasible approach to the matter. In closing, I should like to mention

that the matter is not, as I mentioned earlier, something that we have discussed

in detail with the Panamanians. While we do not anticipate atiy particular difficulties, we cannot be curtiin at this point as to their reaction.

If I may, then, yield to General Adams who will offer the details of the American

Battle \onmnents Commnuission's proposal.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD WYROUGH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND

SENIOR ADVISER FOR TREATY AFFAIRS, OFFICE OF PANAMANIAN AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE

'\1r. WYltou1 u. N Iv statement is (Oered'lC prilfarilvMr. (,'ARNEY. C '1d you give your name and title for the record, sir?
10

Mr. WYROUGH. All right, sir. I am Richard Wyrough from Department of State. During the negotiations, I served as a member of

the delegation that negotiated the treaties, serving primarily in the

capacity of staff coordinator for the delegation and as senior adviser

to Ambassador Bunker, one of the negotiators.

The gist of my statement focuses on alternatives for handling

Mount Hope, inasmuch as you pointed out, Mr. Chairman, the

Corozal Cemetery will remain under U.S. control for the duration of

the Treaty. The two alternatives that I examine in my statement are, first, to negotiate an agreement for the maintenance of the American

sector of the cemetery with Panama and, second, to offer a proposal

to the next of kin of deceased Americans buried there whereby the

United States would disinter the remains and transport them to the

United States and reinter them at a site chosen by the relatives of

the deceased.

There are a number of problems associated with each of these two

alternatives which I discuss in my statement.

First, there is obviously the problem of funding. There is also

the problem of assuring proper American oversight responsibilities

of the maintenance work, and of assuring general access to American

gravesites for relatives and friends. As for the second alternative

which would involve disinterring, transporting to the United States,

and reinterring, the problems again are ones of cost, the purchasing

of the burial plot, headstone, and that sort of thing. Apart from the

question of where we would find the funding for the Government's

part of this proposal, there are other problems, such as the difficulty in contacting the next of kin. These matters are outlined in my

statement.

There is obviously a third, preferred, proposal which General

Adams will discuss. I do indicate in my statement that we have not

yet discussed this proposal or these proposals with the Panamanians.

We think, however, in the context of the situation in which both

countries have ratified the treaties that there would be no insurmountable obstacles in reaching a satisfactory agreement.

I can now at this point, I think, yield to General Adams.

Mr. CARNEY. At this point in the record, your written statement

will be included General Adams.

[Statement follows:]

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. A. J. ADAMS, SECRETARY, AMERICAN BATTLE

MONUMENTS COMMISSION

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, we appreciate your invitation

to appear and testify before your subcommittee concerning the disposition of the

two American cemeteries in the Canal Zone. We will recommend to you what we

believe to be adequate steps to ensure that the remains of Americans buried in

the Canal Zone are not desecrated and will continue to receive the proper care and

respect.

As you know, the two principal functions of the American Battle Monuments

Commission are to: Commemorate the sacrifices and achievements of American

Armed Forces where they have served since 1917; and design, construct, operate,

and maintain permanent American military burial grounds in foreign countries.

An exception to this policy was made in 1947 when President Truman by

Executive Order 9873 transferred the responsibility for the administration of

the Mexico City National Cemetery from the War Department to our Commission.

This Cemetery contains the remains of 750 war dead from the Mexican War,

775 civilians and 43 veterans.
11

Upon receipt of your invitation, I asked Colonel Badger, our engineer, to go to

the Canal Zone to obtain all the information available pertaining to the cemeteries, that we could use in arriving at logical and practical recommendations for your

committee.

Prior to his departure, we received a telephone call from Mr. Frederick Bass of

Rockville, Maryland, expressing deep concern for his parents' graves at Mt.

Hope Cemetery and for his grandfather's grave at Corozal Cemetery. He was

under the impression that when he paid for his parents' burial, their graves would

be maintained in perpetuity. We explained to Mr. Bass that the Federal Government is aware of the problem and is seeking to solve it.

As explained by Mr. Blumenfeld, Mt. Hope Cemetery is located on the Atlantic

side of the Zone in the suburbs of Colon. It is bordered on the south by a tank

farm, on the east by the town of Margarita and on the west by an industrial area.

The Cemetery's 63 acres are located on rolling hills and have a meandering road

that gives general access to the area. It was established in the 1850's. When the

United States assumed responsibility for the Cemetery in 1904, it was divided into

sectors by nationality. This practice has been continued. The American sector

covers approximately 4 acres and is located on the north slope of a steep hill to

the rear of the Cemetery. Of the 175 veterans buried there, 100 are war dead.

The condition of the grass and headstones is poor. The steep grade makes maintenance of the grass difficult. The lowest section of the sector floods during heavy

rains. Access to the sector is restricted. The American Battle Monuments Commission does not consider the site of the American sector as adequate for development as a permanent cemetery.

The Corozal Cemetery covers an area of 56 acres and is bounded by Gaillard

Highway, Rybicki Road and Fort Clayton Military Reservation. It is located

on the Pacific side of the Zone a few miles west of Panama City. Like the Mt.

Hope Cemetery, Corozal is divided into sectors by nationality. The American

sector is near the entrance gate and includes public toilets, a church, a pavilion

with two flag poles and a utility building. Of the 734 veterans over 250 are war

dead. In the American sector the ground is gently rolling and has three hilLs.

To insure continued care for the Americans buried at these cemeteries the following plan is suggested:

1. Upon ratification of the treaties and prior to their coming into force, the

Canal Zone Government should disinter the 150S Americans in the Mt. Hope

Cemetery snd reinter them in the Corozal Cemetery. There is adequate space in

the American sector to bury all 1508 Americans.

2. As soon as possible the Canal Zone Government should discontinue burials

of foreign nationals at the Corozal Cemetery. This is required because of limited

space in the other sectors of the Cemetery.

3. Based upon available grave space remaining in the American sector, the

Canal Zone Government, in coordination with the Department of Defense, should

establish and announce a date for the discontinuance of burials in the American

Sector of the Corozal Cemetery. Section 5742 Title 5 U.S. Code provides for

government transportation to the United States of Americans that die in the Canal

Zone.

4. Following World War I, the United States decided that rather than owning

the land on which its permanent military cemeteries on foreign soil would rest, it

would be preferable for the host country to own the land and grant us, by agreement, free use of the land in perpetuity without charge or taxation. An agreenent of this nature should be made with Panama in order that the American sector of the Corozal Cemetery will continue to be maintained properly after the

year 2000.

5. With such an agreement, the American Battle Monuments Commission

could take over the respo nsibility for the maintenance and care of the cemetery

from the D)epartment of l)efense at any time it is directed to do so by the President.

This plan has been presented to the appropriate representatives of the Canal

Zone Government, the 193d Infantry Brigade (Planning agent of the Department

of Defense for operation of the Corozal Cemetery), and the Consular staff of the

American Embassy, Panama City. At all presentations it was agreed that this

plan was the most viable of solutions considered thus far. Are there any questions?
12

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. A. J. ADAMS, SECRETARY, AMERICAN

BATTLE MONUMENTS COMMISSION

Mr. CARNEY. State your name and title, please, sir.

General ADAMS. I am General Adams, Secretary of the American

Battle Monuments Commission.

As you know, Mr. Chairman, the American Battle Monuments

Commission has two primary functions: one, to commemorate the

sacrifices and achievements of the Armed Forces where they have

served since 1917; and two, to design, construct, operate and maintain

permanent American military burial grounds for war dead in foreign

countries.

An exception to this policy was made at Mexico City when in 1947

President Truman transferred the responsibility of that cemetery to

the American Battle Monuments Commission. In the Mexico City

Cemetery, there are 750 U.S. (lead of the Mexican War and 818

American civilians. Of these 818 civilians, 43 are veterans.

So there is a precedent for the American Battle Monuments Commission to operate a cemetery in a foreign country that contains other

than War Dead.

When we received your invitation to testify, I asked Colonel Badger,

our engineer, to go to the Panama Canal Zone and get all the information he could so that we could make reasonable recommendations. I

will not discuss my statement in its entirety because portions of it

were covered by others.

Our recommendations to insure continue(l adequate care of the

Americans buried in these cemeteries are as follows: first, on ratification

of the treaties and prior to their coming into force, the Canal Zone

Government should disinter the 1,508 Americans in the Mount Hope

Cemetery and reinter them in the American sector of the Corozal

Cemetery. There is adequate space in the American sector to do this.

Second, as soon as possible, the Canal Zone Government should discontinue burial of foreign nationals in the Corozal Cemetery. This is

necessary because the remaining space in the other sectors of the

Corozal Cemetery is becoming exhausted.

Third, based upon available grave space remaining in the American

sector, the Canal Zone Government, in coordination with the Department of Defense, should establish and announce a (late for the discontinuance of American burials in this cemetery. Section 5742, title 5

of the United States Code provides for Government transportation to

the United States of Americans who (lie in the Canal Zone. So it should

not cause a financial hardship.

Fourth, following World War I, the United States decided that

rather than owning the land on which permanent military cemeteries

on foreign soil would rest, it would be preferable for the host country

to own the land and( grant us, by agreement, free use of the land in

perpetuity, and without taxation or charges of any kind. An agreement

of this nature should be made with Panama to insure adequate care

of the American sector of the Corozal Cemetery will continue after

the year 2000.

Finally, with such an agreement, the American Battle Monumesit

Commission could assume resp onsibility for the maintenance and care

of the American sector at any time if directed to do so by the President.
13

This plan has been presented to the representatives of the Canal

Zone Government, to the organization that is responsible for planning

the future operations of the Corozal Cemetery and to the consular

staff of the American Embassy in Panama City. All have agreed that

this is a viable plan.

Are there any questions?

Mr. CARNEY. Mr. Stover, the committee counsel, has a few questions.

Mr. STOVER. Yes; General Adams, how long do you think it would

take to-maybe I should ask the other gentleman, from the State

Department. How long do you think it would take to execute and complete an agreement on these gravesites between the Panamanian Government and the United States Government if the Treaty is ratified?

General ADAMS. Sir, I have no idea. I will ask the State Department

representative to answer that.

Mr. STOVER. Mr. Wy'yro ugh, in other words, as I understand it, there

would have to be two agreements here-one in respect to transferring

the bodies from one cemetery to the other and then another one for maintenance in perpetuity of the American graves after the year 2000. Is

that essentially correct, sir?

Mr. WYROUGH. Yes. As to the length of time that it would take, I

am not really sure. There are several problems associated with implementation of the Canal Treaty of which we are aware that have

nothing at all to do with the cemetery issue. We do not see great difficulties in any of the implementation problems, but we have not

really explored them in any detail! with the Panamanians during this

time when the Senate is engaged in debates and when there is such

attention being given to the issue of the treaties.

I would think once the ratification process is complete that we can

move forward with some speed in resolving the problems. I would

certainly expect that we could conclude any consultations with respect

to the movement of the remains from Mount Hope prior to implement ation of the treaties or in time for that to be accomplished.

Mr. STOVER. General Adams, have any cost estimates been made

with respect to your proposal to tr Usfcr?

General ADAMS. Yes. It is somewhere in the neighborhood of $300,-

000 to $350,000. That is for the initial transfer not the maintenance.

Mr. STOVER. And another point here is, of course, the mission of

your Commission, as you have indicated in your statement, is to commemorate the sacrifices and achievements of members of the American

Armed Forces where they have served since 1917. However, you also

point out that there is one exception, which is in Mexico City, where

there is a mix of American veterans and nonveterais. A precedent,

then, has been established in thiis regard and this proposal in Panama

would be similar, as far as your responsibility would be?

General ADAMS. That is correct, si u.

Mr. STOVER. I can report, M\r. Chairman, that Mr. Roberts, you

will recall, visited a number of these cemeteries in Europe a litt I over

a year ago and had nothing but hirh I r ithe way in which

they are cared for. In fact, Afr. Roberts said that all of the American

overseas cemeteries that he visited were Outstani--cemeteries

that all Americans could be proud of, especially those who have relatives or who are relatives and descendants of those who are buried

therein. I would just mention that for the record.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
14

Mr. CARNEY. Does the minority counsel have any questions?

[No response.]

Mr. SCHWAB. Mr. Chairman, my name is Donald H. Schwab and I

am the legislative director for the Veterans of Foreign Wars. In

accordance with your request, I will brief my statement.

Mr. CARNEY. Your entire written statement will be included in the

record at this point, Mr. Schwab.

[Statement follows:]

STATEMENT OF DONALD H. SCHWAB, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE SERVICE,

VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS OF THE UNITED STATES

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the privilege

of appearing before this distinguished Subcommittee to present the views of the

Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States with respect to American veterans

interred in the Panama Canal Zone should the Panama Canal Treaties be ratified.

My name is Donald H. Schwab, and my title is Director, National Legislative

Service, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States.

Mr. Chairman, permit me to compliment you for timely holding these oversight

hearings on a matter of great concern to the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the

United States.

As you are aware, there are some 1,332 Americans, of whom 175 are veterans, interred in the Mount Hope Cemetery on the Atlantic side of the canal, and 741

veterans interred in the Corozal Cemetery on the Pacific side of the canal. The

Mount Hope Cemetery would pass immediately to Panamanian control if the

treaties are ratified, and the Corozal Cemetery would remain under U.S. control

until the canal is completely turned over to the government of Panama in the

year 2000.

Recommendations have been made that an agreement be negotiated, wherein

the government of Panama would continue to maintain these cemeteries, that the

American Battle Monuments Commission assume responsibility of maintaining

the graves of Americans interred therein, or that legislation be enacted to provide

for the disinterment and reinterment of our veterans in national cemeteries within

the United States at government expense.

Mr. Chairman, we of the Veterans of Foreign Wars believe, as I am sure all

Americans believe, that the sanctity of the grave should be disturbed only under

the most compelling circumstances. However, it is inconceivable that we should

entrust the proper maintanance and care of the graves of our honored dead to

the government of Panama. In view thereof, our recommendation is that all the

Americans, veterans or not, interred in the Mount Hope Cemetery, be disinterred

and reinterred in the Corozal Cemetery. In addition, that provision be made in

the treaties, or by supplemental amendment after the treaties become effective,

for the American Battle Monuments Commission to have jurisdiction over the

American Sector of the Corozal Cemetery in perpetuity without payment or

taxation and that the right be granted by the Panamanian government to fly the

Flag of the United States of America over the American Sector of the Corozal

Cemetery. Further, that, if so requested by the next of kin, the remains of veterans

in either of the cemeteries be disinterred and reinterred in a national cemetery

within the United States at government expense.

Again, Mr. Chairman, we of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States

commend you for the timely and positive action you are taking with respect to

an issue evoking deep emotion on the part of all concerned.

Thank you.

STATEMENT OF DONALD H. SCHWAB, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR,

VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS

Mr. SCHWAB. Our recommendation is that all Americans, veterans

or not, interred in the Mount Hope Cemetery be disinterred and

reinterred in the Corozal Cemetery. In addition, that provisions be

made in the treaties or by supplemental amendment after the treaties

become effective, for the American Battle Monuments Commission to
15

have jurisdiction over the American sector of the Corozal Cemetery

in perpetuity, without payment or taxation, and the right be granted

by the Panamanian Government to fly the flag of the United States

of America over the American sector of the Corozal Cemetery.

Further, that if so requested by the next of kin, the remains of

veterans in either of the cemeteries be disinterred and reinterred in

a national cemetery within the United States at Government expense.

Thank you, sir.

Mr. CARNEY. Do you have any more questions?

Mr. STOVER. No more questions, Mr Chairman.

Mr. CARNEY. You said something about 9 bodies were buried last

year. In which cemetery?

Mr. BLUMENFELD. Nine Americans, sir, in Mount Hope, and 16

American burials in Corozal last year.

Mr. CARNEY. How many Americans are buried in Mount Hope

now?-that have been moved?

Mr. BLUMENFELD. 1,508 Americans are now buried in Mount

Hope of whom 175 are veterans.

Mr. CARNEY. Could arrangements be made for perpetual care of

these bodies in Mount Hope Cemetery? Would it be difficult to leave

the bodies where they are and perpetual care be guaranteed for those

bodies by the Battle Monuments Commission or somebody else

without disinterring the bodies?

Mr. BLUMENFELD. I believe, as Mr. Wyrough mentioned, that is a

possible option, but one that iS fraught with difficulties. I think one

point which might be mentioned is that the American section at

Corozal, which would be used under the plan we describedd this morning, is in physically better condition than the American sector at

Mount Hope in terms of its grade, the gra ss, et cetera.

Mr. CARNEY. I personally do not like the idea of disinterring people

and moving them around unless there is some sound reason to do it.

Could it not, with the guarantee of perpetual care, that grass and

those things be brought up in the negotiations that they are not

maintained and they should be maintained?

Ir. BLUMENFELD. I would defer to those with more experience in

cemetery maintenance. General A(lams might want to comment.

General ADAMS. No, sir. I think I will ask Colonel Badger to answer

that because he has just visited the Cemetery.

Colonel BADGER. Sir, the American sector of the Mount Hope

Cemetery is located on the north slope of a hill to the rear of the

Cemetery and access to it is very difficult. The road is win(ling, the

low grounds become flooded during heavy rains and the terrain is

steep. So it is very difficult to maintain the grass.

For these reasons, it is recommended that Mount Hope not

become a permanent cemetery.

Mr. CARNEY. Well, the Americans evidently thought it was a

suitable place to bury them. Why did we bury them there in the

first place if it was not suitable?

Mr. CONSTANT. May I answer that, sir? Tliey are buried there

generally at the wishes of the next of kin if they have lived and worked

on the Atlantic side for many, many years and some of the U.S.

employees have reqllested to be buried at that cemeteiy, elvn thoutich

it may not necessarily be the better of the two.
16

General ADAMS. Mr. Chairman, I have a couple of photographs

here of the Mount Hope Cemetery. It will give you some idea of

its poor condition and how difficult it would be to raise it to our

standards. These were taken by Colonel Badger 'just the week before

last.

Mr. CARNEY. Even the Mount Hope nonveterans gravesites look

very good to me. The majority of cemeteries in the United States, I would say, do not look quite as good as this. The one for veterans

does not look like you would have a hard time fixing up, if somebody

paid attention to it. There is some rubble I see on the top, but I would

not call that bad. I would insist that, if I have any say about it, that

nobody is going to be disinterred without complete approval of the

next of kin because I think whenever they lay me, I want to stay

planted. I just do not like this idea of moving bodies around because

after 10 or 15 years, you are moving nothing anyway. Nothing but

some bones.

What is your name?

Mr. WYROUGH. Mr. Wyrough.

Mr. CARNEY. You are the gentleman who had something to do

with these negotiations?

Mr. WYROUGH. es, Sir.

Mr. CARNEY. What did you do about these cemeteries in the

negotiations?

Mr. WYROUGH. One of the major issues covered in the treaty

negotiations had to do with the disposition of the various lands and

waters in the Canal Zone. Those negotiations with respect to the

cemeteries yielded the agreement that is reflected here-that Mount

Hope would pass to Panama at the outset of the treaties and that

Corozal would remain with the United States until the conclusion

of the treaties.

Mr. CARNEY. That is 20 years.

Mr. WYROUGH. To the end of the century, yes, but beyond that,

we (lid not reach agreement on the matter that is at issue here today.

Mr. CARNEY. I would hope that as a result of the negotiations,

the United States would have control over these cemeteries, at least

the care of them, from now on. Twenty years is not a very long period,

and then you are going to face this problem all over again, I think the

time to make that decision is before the treaties are completely

agreed upon.

MAlr. WYROUGH. Sir; with all respect, the whole question of perpetuity was one of the two, I would say, central issues for Panama

throughout the negotiations. As we discussed Issue A, Issue B,

Issue C, Panama would look at the American proposal inside out

and upside down for what they called disguised perpetuity. We think,

in the context of treaties that are ratified, we can get Panama's

agreement to the proposal that has been presented to you this morning.

Mr. CARNEY. Mr. Barnard, do you have any questions?

Mr. BARNARD. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for being late. I am

stulying the testimony nov,; and if the hearing is going to continue,

I would probably have some later on.

Mr. CARNEY. Do you have any others?

tNo response.]
17

Mr. CARNEY. I would suggest, Mr. Wyrough, that some of these

matters ought to be resolved. I think one issue is the Canal itselfwho runs that, but these graves are there and I think we have a right,

on the basis of common decency, to insist that these graves be taken

care of by Americans. I am concerned that American rights be preserved by treaty and that we be in a position to take care of these

graves from now on. As far as I am concerned persoally-and I am

only one member of this committee-I would say that the only way

I would want remains to be moved out of Mount Hope would be if

it was the wish of the next of kin.

As you indicated, many people ask to be buried there. If they

asked to be buried there, I do not think their next of kin would be

apt to want them moved. So I want to ask you to let your superiors

know that this subcommittee, for what its jurisdiction is, at least at

the present time, is desirous that negotiations be continued. It looks

like this matter was swept under the table and nothing was done

about it. So I would ask you to make a report to Chairman Roberts

within the next 3 months, or as soon as possible, of what can be done

about this.

Mr. WYROUGH. Yes, sir. We will certainly do that. There are, as I

have said, a number of issues that we have to concern ourselves with,

issues that have to do with implementation of the treaties. It is

difficult to address every specific issue. I certainly would not say, however, that it is a matter of sweeping this particular issue under

the table.

Mr. CARNEY. Did we hear from this gentleman from the Panama

Canal Company.?

Mr. CONSTANT. Sir; our testimony is included in Secretary

Blumenfeld's.

Mr. CARNEY. Are you based in Panama?

Mr. CONSTANT. No, sir, I am here in Washington.

Mr. CARNEY. Does your organization have any position on this

matter?

Mr. CONSTANT. It is the position of the Secretary of the Army, sir.

Mr. CARNEY. Does minority counsel have any questions at this

time?

[No response.]

Mr. CARNEY. Do you have any questions, Mr. Stover?

Mr. STOVER. No.

Mr. CARNEY. Mr. Barnard.

Mr. BARNARD. Mr. Chairman, with respect to Mr. Wyrough's

testimony, it appears that what you just asked him to do-has he not

somewhat provided the plan in his testimony? Is that not a plan, sir?

Mr. WYROUGH. We have provided here what we think is a preferred plan and Chairman Carney has indicated that-it is ny

understanding that he has indicated a personal preference for one of

the proposals that we looked at, but found objectionable.

Mr. BARNARD. But you have a two-pronged proposal. One is to

turn Mount Hope over to the Panamanians-the Panamanian

Government.

Mr. WYROUGH. Yes, sir.

Mr. BARNARD. Because of the predominance of their citizens that

are buried there, is that correct?

Mr. WYROUGH. Yes; that is correct.
18

Mr. BARNARD. The second proposal would be to offer Americans

buried there transport back to the United States for burial?

Mr. WYROUGH. No; the proposal would be to move the Americans

interred in Mount Hope and reinter them in Corozal.

Mr. BARNARD. Oh, they do not have that option?

Mr. WYROUGH. That is the option that General Adams presented.

What I described in my statement are the two options which we

found less attractive than the proposal which General Adams described.

Mr. BARNARD. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman, but

I would like to study this matter and I very possible might write you

gentlemen a letter asking for some clarifications.

Mr. BLUMENFELD. Fine.

Mr. WYROUGH. Yes.

Mr. CARNEY. And I will also have some additional questions for

you. I will write to vou after we have given this due consideration.

Once again, I would urge the proper authorities to continue negotiations. I am not satisfied with proposed solution I think that when a

person is buried they should not be moved for the convenience of the

living, at least haphazardly. I would urge that further negotiations

be carried on regarding Mount Hope because you find out in one

generation that people forget. I think that the U.S. Government has

a responsibility to these people who worked for the canal or who

were veterans. The country has a continuing obligation to them.

These people were buried, some since 1913, I imagine, when we were

building the canal and it would be very hard to trace their descendants. I do not believe in willy nilly (isinterring graves, so I would

suggest that more thought be put into this and some negotiations

be conducted. I doubt that Panama is going to worry about a little

plot of land where some people are buried when they seem to want

only to control the canal.

I would urge that negotiations be continued and that you come up

with a new plan. If the next of kin wanted their relatives moved-and

insisted-I would say all right. But I do not think that we, the Government itself, should take the initiative and start moving these people.

We will write to you and amplify this. All right?

Mr. WYROUGH. Yes.

Mr. BLLUMENFELD. Thank you.

Mr. CARNEY. We may have you back again before this is finally

settled.

Mr. WYROUGH. Thank you, sir.

Mr. CARNEY. Does the minority have any questions?

[No response.]

Mr. CARNEY. Do you have any questions?

Mr. S'TOVER. No.

Mr. CARNEY. Is there anybody in the audience that is prepared to

testify today?-and has not submitted their statements in advance?

The Disabled American Veterans submitted a statement for the

record. It will be included at this point in the record.

[Statement follows:]
19

DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS,

NATIONAL SERVICE AND LEGISLATIVE HEADQUARTERS,

Washington, D.C., February 27, 1978.

Hon. CHARLES J. CARNEY,

Chairman, Subcommittee on Cemeteries and Barial Benefits, Committee on Veterans'

Affairs, U.S. House of Representatives, W ashington, D.C.

DEAR CHAIRMAN CARNEY: The Disabled American Veterans greatly appreciates

your invitation to participate in the Subcommittee's hearing to determine the

effect of the proposed treaty on the graves of American veterans interred in the

Panama Canal zone.

Unfortunately, however, we have little information regarding the disposition

of the American cemeteries that is not already known to your Subcommittee.

And in the interest of conserving your valuable time, I have therefore decided to

advise you of our position by way of this letter.

As you know, the remains of some 916 veterans are presently interred in the

two American cemeteries located within the Panama Canal zone, and there can

be no question that our Government has an obligation to ensure that these

graves will be properly maintained.

Yet, nowhere in the proposed treaties can we find any mention of the care

that is to be taken of these United States cemeteries when the Canal zone reverts

to Panamanian ownership in the year 2000.

Consequently, the DAV is deeply concerned over the fate of these important

installations, and we strongly believe that the ill-conceived Panama Canal treaties

should be amended to keep the Corozal and Mount Hope Cemeteries under

effective United States control.

Failing that, we urge that legislation be enacted to prevent the desecration of

these American graves and make certain that they will continue to receive appropriate care and proper respect by providing for their relocation in the National

Cemetery System.

On behalf of the Disabled American Veterans, I therefore respectfully request

the Subcommittee on Cemeteries and Burial Benefits to favorably report such

legislation, and I wish to commend you for bringing to light this hitherto unmentioned defect in the Panama Canal treaties.

Sincerely yours, WILLIAM B. GARDINER,

National Director of Legislation.

Mr. CARNEY. We declare this hearing adjourned and we will keep

the record open for further testimony.

Thank you very much.

[Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m., the hearing was concluded.]

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