U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

36–108 PDF 2007

FULL COMMITTEE HEARING ON SMALL

SMALL BUSINESSES AT THE FOREFRONT

OF THE GREEN REVOLUTION: WHAT

MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO KEEP THEM HERE?

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JULY 11, 2007

Serial Number 110-34

Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

CHARLIE GONZA ́ LEZ, Texas 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

HENRY CUELLAR, Texas 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

BRUCE BRALEY, Iowa 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

DEAN HELLER, Nevada 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio

MICHAEL DAY, Majority Staff Director 

ADAM MINEHARDT, Deputy Staff Director 

TIM SLATTERY, Chief Counsel 

KEVIN FITZPATRICK, Minority Staff Director

STANDING SUBCOMMITTEES 

Subcommittee on Finance and Tax

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois, Chairwoman 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

DEAN HELLER, Nevada, Ranking 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio

Subcommittee on Contracting and Technology

BRUCE BRALEY, IOWA, Chairman 

HENRY CUELLAR, Texas 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma

(II) 

Subcommittee on Regulations, Health Care and Trade

CHARLES GONZA ́ LEZ, Texas, Chairman 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia, Ranking 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio

Subcommittee on Urban and Rural Entrepreneurship

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina, Chairman 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

DEAN HELLER, Nevada 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee

Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight

JASON ALTMIRE, PENNSYLVANIA, Chairman 

CHARLIE GONZA ́ LEZ, Texas 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas, Ranking 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 1

Chabot, Hon. Steve .................................................................................................. 2

WITNESSES

PANEL I 

Blum, Hon. Marty, Mayor of Santa Barbara, CA ................................................. 4

Fenty, Hon. Adrian, Mayor of Washington, D.C. .................................................. 5

PANEL II 

Seo, Danny, Environmental Lifestyle Specialist ................................................... 16

Genachowski, Julius, New Resource Bank ............................................................ 18

Maxman, Susan, American Institute of Architects ............................................... 20

Jones, Bob, National Association of Home Builders ............................................. 23

McGrew, Mary Beth, University of Cincinnati ..................................................... 25

APPENDIX 

Prepared Statements: 

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 39

Chabot, Hon. Steve .................................................................................................. 41

Altmire, Hon. Jason ................................................................................................. 43

Blum, Hon. Marty, Mayor of Santa Barbara, CA ................................................. 44

Fenty, Hon. Adrian, Mayor of Washington, D.C. .................................................. 48

Wynn, Hon. Will, Mayor of Austin, TX .................................................................. 51

Seo, Danny, Environmental Lifestyle Specialist ................................................... 55

Genachowski, Julius, New Resource Bank ............................................................ 57

Maxman, Susan, American Institute of Architects ............................................... 61

Jones, Bob, National Association of Home Builders ............................................. 66

McGrew, Mary Beth, University of Cincinnati ..................................................... 73

Statements for the Record: 

Stanford Social Innovation Review ........................................................................ 77

(V) 

(1)

FULL COMMITTEE HEARING ON SMALL 

SMALL BUSINESS AT THE FOREFRONT 

OF THE GREEN REVOLUTION: WHAT 

MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO KEEP THEM 

HERE? 

WEDNESDAY, JULY 11, 2007

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:06 a.m., in Room 

2360 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Nydia Vela ́zquez 

[Chairwoman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Vela ́zquez, Cuellar, Braley, Chabot, 

Akin, Gohmert and Heller. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRWOMAN VELA ́ ZQUEZ 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Good morning. I now call this hearing 

to order, entitled Small Businesses at the Forefront of the Green 

Revolution: What More Needs to Be Done to Keep Them Here? 

Since the beginning of the 110th Congress, this Committee has 

considered a variety of energy-related issues. Whether it be renewable fuels, production or installation of equipment to improve energy efficiency, small businesses are making our world better, and 

building green is no exception. Today’s hearing will explore further 

just how small businesses are playing a critical role in improving 

conservation and energy efficiency while expanding the so-called 

green economy. 

Entrepreneurs are leading the effort to combat global climate 

change by taking steps to reduce energy consumption. One of the 

major developments over the last decade has been the profound 

growth of building green. Green buildings are environmentally responsible, economically viable and healthier places to work and 

live. It started out as a novel concept that seemed to be out of 

reach for many. Now firms across the country are looking for ways 

to incorporate these practices and achieve certification. Due to this 

growth, it will soon become the norm to have an energy-efficient 

and environmentally sensitive building or home. 

As installers of solar panels, inventors of bio-based products or 

the architects who create the designs, small businesses are responsible for much of the rapid growth in green homes and buildings. 

The National Association of Home Builders, who have representatives here today, reported a 20 percent jump last year in home 

builders focused on environmentally responsible construction. It is 

2

estimated that some 50 percent of all builders will produce at least 

some homes using green methods by the year 2010. 

Our first panel shows how the government can play an effective 

way in encouraging further innovation in green infrastructure. 

These mayors have been at the forefront and have put in place 

policies that have allowed small firms to flourish in their communities while protecting the environment. They have provided educational tools, financial incentives and an overall structure that 

makes a green small business economically viable. I look forward 

to their insights on these successful programs and how the Federal 

Government may be able to provide similar assistance. 

This Congress has already started taking steps to ensure not 

only are we creating domestic supplies of clean energy, but that the 

Federal Government can reduce overall consumption. The Small 

Business Committee has passed four pieces of legislation that provide education, financing and resources on energy efficiency and 

production. I look forward to hearing about what policies have been 

successful and if there are additional reforms needed to ensure future growth. 

I appreciate both mayors for coming here today, and I am really 

very grateful for the insights that you will be providing to this 

Committee. And now I yield to the Ranking Member Mr. Chabot 

for his opening statement. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF MR. CHABOT 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I want to 

welcome everyone here and wish you a good morning for being here 

as we examine how small businesses are leading the way in the 

green building industry. I would also like to thank Chairwoman 

Vela ́zquez for holding this hearing and each of the witnesses for 

taking the time to provide this Committee with testimony, both the 

first and the second panel. 

I would also like to especially thank Beth McGrew from the University of Cincinnati for making the trip here from Cincinnati, 

which happens to be in my district. 

Constructing and operating buildings requires enormous 

amounts of energy and raw materials that create large amounts of 

waste. Where and how they are built affects the ecosystems around 

us in countless ways. The buildings themselves create new indoor 

environments that present new environmental problems and challenges. As the environmental impact of buildings becomes more apparent, a growing field called green building, also called sustainable building or high-performance building, is leading the way to 

reduce that impact at the source. 

Several studies have shown this type can improve energy efficiency. For example, recent research conducted on the financial 

ramifications and benefits of green design and buildings found that 

the up-front investment of no more than 2 percent typically yielded 

life cycle savings of over 10 times the original investment. Another 

study supported reduced annual costs in energy and water by almost $10,000 in a 20,000-square-foot building. 

Increased energy efficiency along with developing new domestic 

sources of energy and ensuring a diverse energy supply is a key 

component of improving our Nation’s energy security. The practice 

3

of green building means making intentional decisions that positively impact energy efficiency, resource conservation and indoor 

environmental quality throughout the entire design and construction process. The ultimate goals of this thought process is to reduce 

operating cost by increasing productivity and using less energy and 

water, improve public and occupant health due to improved indoor 

air quality and reduced environmental impacts. 

Green building is a new and evolving field. Small entrepreneurs 

and businesses were at the forefront of this industry in the 1970s 

in response to the energy crisis of that time. Today this commercial 

enterprise is still evolving and still being driven by small entrepreneurs and businesses. It is well recognized that small business 

is the engine of innovation and the center for entrepreneurship. 

This new evolving industry opens up great opportunities for small 

businesses to be the trailblazers and become its future leaders. 

Since today there appears to be a valid business case for green 

building, we must ensure that taxpayer dollars are put to the best 

use. Artificially subsidizing the growth of this or any specific industry could cause potential problems in the future. If this type of construction can be cost-effective and environmentally friendly for 

builders, installers and tenants alike, there should be little need for 

congressional intervention. The industry will grow organically and 

grow stronger without government interference. 

While many of the goals of green building are worthwhile, I am 

similarly concerned about the possibility of legislating mandates, 

intended or otherwise, that could be costly and burdensome to our 

taxpayers and communities. That said, I do believe Congress and 

this Committee in particular does have a role to play in reducing 

impediments to the growth of this industry, especially so that small 

companies can continue to innovate and produce new technology 

that will improve the green building process. 

We have excellent witnesses here today both on this panel and 

the following panel to provide us with insight as to how this burgeoning industry is performing and provide suggestions to Congress that will help it continue to grow. I look forward to their testimony, again, both panels. And I want to again thank the Chairwoman for holding this important hearing, and I yield back the balance of my time. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you.

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. And now I welcome our first witness, 

the Honorable Marty Blum. Ms. Blum has served as mayor of 

Santa Barbara since 2001. Under her leadership the city of Santa 

Barbara has instated a green building policy that requires new construction and major renovations for city-owned and -operated buildings to achieve LEED silver certification. For her work in helping 

Santa Barbara become a greener, healthier and more sustainable 

city, Mayor Blum was nominated as one of five finalists for the 

U.S. Mayors Climate Protection Award for small cities. 

Mayor Blum, welcome, and you will have 5 minutes to make your 

presentation. 

4

STATEMENT OF MARTY BLUM, MAYOR, SANTA BARBARA, 

CALIFORNIA 

Ms.BLUM. Well, thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I am 

pleased to be here today to represent the city of Santa Barbara and 

the U.S. Conference of Mayors. We are working very hard on green 

building, and what we would like to do is talk about how we encourage small businesses to become more energy-efficient and to 

explore renewable energy. I want to also share the highlights from 

a recent U.S. Conference of Mayors survey on climate protection efforts in cities nationwide. 

The city of Santa Barbara is focused on helping our community 

learn to be green at work and at home. We use B20 biodiesel in 

our whole fleet, including the fire trucks and construction trucks. 

We purchased hybrid vehicles, and we have a green building policy, 

as you mentioned. 

With the urgency of climate change, we are working with businesses in climate protection. And a few years ago we formed a partnership with Southern California Edison and with a local nonprofit 

called Community Environmental Council, and we go into businesses and do inventories for them and help them be more energyefficient. 

What we have found, our experience with the small businesses 

have given us some valuable insight to help them become more energy-efficient. In some ways it is easier for them to change their 

ways than it would be for a larger business because they don’t have 

the bureaucracy. But on the other hand, many of them are owners 

who spend their time running the business and don’t have time in 

their busy schedules to deal with energy efficiency. Many of them 

don’t even own their own buildings. So it makes it very hard to invest in air conditioning or light fixtures that they don’t own. Many 

also are marginal businesses. They are just making it month to 

month, and it is very hard for them to spend the money to become 

more energy-efficient. 

For these reasons, our partnership with Edison and with CEC, 

with our Community Environmental Council, has been very good 

because Edison has provided money for installing upgrades for 

these businesses. But we would like to encourage Federal assistance to businesses to encourage them to purchase Energy Star appliances. That would be helpful, and it would significantly reduce 

energy demand. 

To encourage the use of renewable energy, tax credits also should 

be renewed for renewable energy installations and maintain a stable level for long term. The uncertainty of changing rebates, going 

up and down—for example, the solar rebates, some years they are 

there, some years they are not there. It makes it very hard for 

small businesses to plan ahead. 

In addition to energy efficiency, we have many years of experience assisting small businesses with waste prevention and with 

water conservation, and we work closely with them to conserve 

water. And in Santa Barbara, we are in a semiarid situation, and 

this year has been a big drought year for us. So free water checkups, landscape irrigation evaluations for businesses, and we give 

them rebates of $350 per fixture if they use low-flow fixtures. 

5

Shifting toward national, nationwide city efforts, nearly 600 mayors—and I believe we are over 600 now—nationwide have joined as 

signatories to the U.S. Conference of Mayors Climate Protection 

Agreement, committing to reducing their cities’ greenhouse gases 

by 7 percent below 1990 levels by 2012. 

The U.S. Conference of Mayors recently surveyed many of the 

mayors to learn more about their local energy and climate protection initiatives, and the responses were just released at a meeting 

in Los Angeles a couple weeks ago. Foremost among these findings 

for this Committee, the mayors reported that they would expand 

programs and initiatives to encourage individuals and businesses 

to change energy practices, to go green in commercial, residential 

and public buildings, and to promote renewable and other energy 

sources. 

When mayors were asked to describe how they would invest a 

new Federal block grant assistance program, here is what they 

said. They cited these things: to retrofit existing buildings, improve 

their carbon footprint; outreach to business communities to revamp 

energy-efficiency programs; to develop solar, water and electric programs that provide low-cost financing; and promotion and education to the public and business community. 

We know that the Nation’s cities not only play a vital role in our 

national goal of energy efficiency and conservation, energy independence and climate protection, but it has been proven that there 

are many advantages to community-based solutions. And as such, 

I want to join my colleague here and underscore our strong support 

for the enactment of new energy legislation that establishes a new 

energy efficiency block grant program. It was recently approved by 

the House Energy and Commerce Committee. And, Madam Chairwoman, I would strongly encourage you and the members of this 

Committee to join with other House colleagues to ensure the adoption of this important initiative. This is the number one priority for 

the U.S. Conference of Mayors, and I thank you for this opportunity to address this Committee. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mayor Blum. 

[The statement of Ms. Blum may be found in the Appendix on 

page 44.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our next witness is our own Mayor, Mr. 

Adrian Fenty. He was elected last year to his first term as Mayor 

of the District of Columbia. As part of an aggressive 100-day strategy, he included a number of sweeping green initiatives that will 

make the District more energy-efficient and environmentally 

friendly. 

The city of Washington, D.C., is involved in the construction of 

the first green Major League Baseball stadium. Prior to serving as 

Mayor, he was a council member representing the ward number 4. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF ADRIAN FENTY, MAYOR, WASHINGTON, D.C.; 

AND WILL WYNN, MAYOR, AUSTIN, TEXAS 

MayorFENTY. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, 

Ranking Member Chabot, members of the Committee. Thank you 

for inviting us to testify today about the role of municipal governVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
6

ment and small business in protecting the environment. I am especially pleased that you have invited fellow Mayor Blum to take part 

in this hearing. 

The majority of the United States population now lives in urban 

and suburban areas, and about half of the Nation’s private-sector 

employees, as you all know, work for small businesses. This is the 

perfect time to take a look at how cities and small businesses can 

work together for sustainability. This important work has already 

begun in the District of Columbia, and I am pleased to be joined 

somewhere back there by my director of the Department of the Environment George Hawkins. 

As the Nation’s Capital and an international tourist destination, 

our city attracts worldwide attention. My vision is of a municipal 

government that sets an example for other cities not only across 

the country, but really around the world. Last year we began to set 

an example when it comes to green buildings here in the Nation’s 

Capital. 

Prior to serving as Mayor, as you stated, Madam Chair, I served 

for 6 years on the council. I joined my council colleagues then in 

passing an innovative Green Building Act, and my predecessor Anthony Williams signed the bill into law. We became the first city 

in the United States to require environmentally conscious design 

and construction not just in government buildings, but in private 

development as well. 

Beginning in 2012, private nonresidential buildings of 50,000 

square feet or more must meet LEED-NC 2.2 or LEED-CS 2.0 

standards. Our public buildings, including those owned and leased 

by the District government, will begin to meet these standards earlier and at a higher level. We have made these changes to our 

building code and will provide incentives in the first year of the 

program. 

The developer of a 50,000-square-foot building usually is not a 

small business, but small businesses rent space in these buildings. 

It will be easier for a small business to adopt innovations such as 

reduced energy consumption, grey water reuse, and increased recycling into its business model if the entire building takes part, making these practices easier and less expensive in the process. 

With a little help from municipal governments, small businesses 

can team up on green initiatives. This spring I joined a group of 

businesses in the U Street corridor of Washington, D.C., to announce their participation in the Clean Currents Initiative. These 

10 businesses, including a bakery, several restaurants and a yoga 

studio, have formed a green energy-buying group. Together these 

small local businesses will buy nearly 2 million kilowatt hours of 

wind energy per year for 3 years. The carbon offset from this purchase is equal to taking 185 cars off the road. By buying their energy together, the group will save at least $21,000 a year. 

Our Department of Housing and Community Development funds 

small business technical assistance for several nonprofit groups in 

the District of Columbia. One of these nonprofits, the Latino Economic Development Corporation, helped to broker the Clean Currents deal. It is the first collaboration of its kind in the District of 

Columbia, and I am pleased that my administration was involved 

in putting it together. 

7

The District government will continue to lead the way by opening 

what we hope will be the Nation’s first LEED-certified baseball stadium, as you mentioned, Madam Chair, in April of 2008. As we embark upon an aggressive school modernization campaign, we are 

looking for ways to incorporate green building technologies and reduce resource consumption into our classrooms. We hope doing so 

will begin to bring the cost of these materials and programs down. 

We also hope green classrooms will help teach the next generation 

of small business owners about sustainability. 

Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, this concludes my prepared remarks, 

and I would be glad to answer any questions today and to work 

with you in the future on this important priority. Thank you very 

much. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mayor Fenty. 

[The statement of Mayor Fenty may be found in the Appendix on 

page 48.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. I would like to note that Mayor Will 

Wynn of Austin Texas had planned to be here today. Unfortunately 

he was unable to fly in last night due to the weather. I ask unanimous consent his statement be entered into the record. Without objection, so be it. 

[The statement of Mr. Wynn may be found in the Appendix on 

page 51.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. I would like to address my first question to Mayor Fenty. As the District begins implementing green 

building standards, there are many small business contractors who 

may be looking for guidance. What are some of the challenges in 

getting these businesses up to speed on new requirements, and how 

will the city work to assist these contractors? 

MayorFENTY. Well, that is a great question. On the municipal 

level, I think there is two impediments; one, just outreach. And we 

have had to make sure that our Office of Local Business Development is not only in the business of providing more opportunities for 

small businesses, but they understand the regulatory framework 

with which they have to operate. So we are charging our Office of 

Local Business Development to work with our Department of the 

Environment to get the word out to small businesses, and we do 

know that will be an enormous task, but we will get it done. 

The second thing is funding. I think we have to make sure that 

there are incentives available, and, to the extent possible, making 

the opportunity for small businesses to pool together, as we did in 

the Clean Currents Initiative, I think is a way to allow small businesses to become more environmentally sensitive and green without having to tap into their own profits and too much into the government treasury. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Do you believe that more contractors 

are starting to voluntarily implement LEED standards on private 

construction products as they become educated about these building techniques? 

MayorFENTY. No question about it. I went to a groundbreaking 

for a property right on the back side of Gallery Place by Akridge 

Development. It is going to be a silver LEED building, very adVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
8

vanced. And I think they are doing it, one, because of their own 

priorities for the city that they do business in, but, two, the Congress and, on the local level, the mayors have been pushing these 

initiatives. So the more we do, I think it goes to show that it is not 

just the substance of our work, but setting the example for the private sector. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. And, Mayor Blum, some have been frustrated with the way the Federal Government has failed to put 

green initiatives at the forefront. What suggestion would you offer 

in creating new green policies at the Federal level that can encourage the private sector to implement more environmentally friendly 

practices? 

Ms.BLUM. Sure. It has been a couple years now that the mayors 

have been working on this. I think it was in 2005 when we first 

started working on climate change agreement, and we have all 

taken it back to our cities and worked very hard. So there are a 

lot of things already in place in various cities all over this country. 

And it would be good to share the best practices which we are 

doing at the mayoral level, but it would be useful for you to know 

what are the best practices going on in the big cities and small cities alike. 

The small businesses are a little bit different because we don’t 

have an environmental person or, you know, someone in charge of 

the buildings. But we can work closely with our builders association, with our contractors, with our AIA, with the architects, and 

we are doing that, and that makes a big difference. 

But you asked what the Federal Government can do to focus on 

this, and I think you are already doing it, having this hearing. And 

we are starting to see some real differences coming along in Congress. Hopefully—the energy block grants is something we are really pushing, and hopefully if you make climate change a priority, 

and you talk about the green buildings and green initiatives all 

over the country, then you can find some money to appropriate for 

it, and I know that is difficult. But it depends upon what your priorities are, and if you can show us what your priorities are by 

showing us the money, that works. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. Thank you. It takes money. 

We all know that. It is a matter of priorities. 

Ms.BLUM. Yes. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mayor Fenty, we know that the celebration of the D.C. Nationals new baseball stadium is to take place 

later today, and the green stadium is the first major stadium to try 

an acquired LEED certification. What example does this set for 

large construction projects throughout the Nation? Can you talk to 

us about the experience of getting this project done this way? 

MayorFENTY. Well, I think it sets a number of different strong 

precedents; one, that these real public-private projects, like baseball stadiums, that if the public is going to put forth dollars, then 

they have to be beneficial to the community. And this one is for lots 

of reasons, including the economic development. But the green initiatives that are going to come out of having a LEED-certified stadium to that area, it is a brownfields area, of course. It has been 

blighted for years, and we haven’t taken care of the area. As this 

being the anchor for the redevelopment, I think it is going to show 

9

other developers coming in, and we have some great developers 

working there, that we also want them to create green buildings 

that are LEED-certified. 

I also just want to note, as with a lot of other stadiums across 

the country, this one is being built on the banks of a river. This 

is being built on the banks of the Anacostia River here in Washington, D.C., which is historically polluted. And by saying that we 

are sensitive to the run-off that comes out of this stadium and 

buildings near it, and the impact it has on the river, I just think 

that it is a great substantive and symbolic way to show how cities 

are being revitalized, and hopefully it will be a national model. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Can you talk to us if you know or if you 

are aware of any of the materials being used in the construction 

of this stadium? 

MayorFENTY. You know, that is a great question. I am not as 

good on the materials. We would be glad to provide that to the 

Committee. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. 

MayorFENTY. But I know that one of the great focuses of this 

project has been to make sure that we reduce the run-off into the 

Anacostia River and keep everything sustained within the building. 

But we will get that to the Committee, because again, this is the 

first of its kind. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you.

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. And now I recognize Mr. Chabot. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. 

Mayor Blum,if I can go to you first. You had expressed support 

for tax credits concerning renewable energy and making them permanent, and I completely agree with you in that respect. And one 

of the biggest impediments to economic growth, as you know, can 

be uncertainty in the Tax Code and not knowing what incentives 

will be there 2 or 3 or 4 years down the road. And unfortunately 

it can really put the breaks on development. 

Could you again maybe expound upon that idea a little bit? And 

I would say this goes beyond even this topic today. We have a tendency in the Tax Code in all areas to make things there for a couple 

of years, and we really, I think, need to make a lot of these tax 

cuts, whether they be credits or deductions, permanent so people 

can rely on them in the long term. But specifically with respect to 

this area that we are discussing today, could you expound upon 

that a little bit? 

Ms.BLUM. Sure. We have found that small businesses, as I said, 

sometimes are very marginal, and sometimes there are families 

working together to open a restaurant, and they don’t have a lot 

of extra money, and they don’t have a lot of extra time, but what 

they do have are some hopes for the future. And they can make 

plans for the future. But sometimes it is not just this year. Sometimes they say, well, in 5 years we would like to whatever, put 

solar panels on or buy more energy-efficient appliances or whatever 

it is, but they just don’t have the money together right now. But 

by the time they get it together, the tax credits have changed or 

the solar credits or whatever it is, and then you wait out another 

5 years to hope they come back. And I think it makes it very, very 

10

difficult to run a small business, and I am talking about the real 

small businesses, when you don’t have assurances that government 

will stay the same, as you say, that they will be the same year 

after year so that when you finally do pull together the money and 

make that commitment, you can get some tax credits on it. So I 

just think it is vital. 

Santa Barbara has about twice as many small businesses for its 

size than other cities because we are a small city, we are 90,000 

people, and each one of those small businesses needs some kind of 

certainty in their taxes, in their—what kind of solar credits they 

can get, what kind of tax credits they can get. And it is just vital 

for them to have that. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you. 

You had also mentioned, which I found interesting, that 23 percent of Santa Barbara’s electrical energy is currently derived from 

renewable sources. What are the prospects for that in the future? 

Is there a way to expand that even more? And what realistically 

with today’s technology could your goals be? 

Ms.BLUM. Sure. With our inventory, we were really surprised 

that we were already at 16 percent. We just had no idea. And I 

think when people do an inventory of what they are doing, they 

will find that they are doing a lot more than they even know. Their 

own departments are trying, and people at the grassroots level are 

really working on this. 

But what really gave us a boost was that instead of the flare-off 

at the wastewater treatment plant of methane gas, we usually just 

fired it off into the air, we capped that and put it into a fuel cell. 

And you had better not ask me any more than that because I don’t 

know. You put it into this magic box, and it comes out electricity, 

and I think it is wonderful. And then we use that for the plant 

itself, saving us about $35,000 a year, which doesn’t sound like a 

lot to you, but to us it is huge. And that pushed us up over 20 percent alternative fuels. And we are also capping the methane out at 

our landfill. 

We can see—you asked us about the future. That was without 

really trying very much, and now we are really working in each of 

our departments. And I can see us getting up to 50 percent, but 

not while I am probably alive, but in the next 20 years, 30 years, 

I can see us getting up there. And it would be wonderful if we 

could even get to 100 percent. But we are going to need some help 

on research and development for that. 

Mr.CHABOT. Okay. Thank you very much. 

Mayor Fenty, could you explain the mechanics of the U Street 

corridor’s buying of wind energy? And basically how does the power 

generated in wind get sent specifically to these businesses? And 

one other thing. You had mentioned rainwater being incorporated 

in the planning for buildings, and how that can be part of the overall plan and being more energy-efficient and utilizing resources 

which are essentially free. Could you discuss those two aspects, 

please? 

MayorFENTY. Yeah. I will do the best I can. I was even at the 

press conference on this Clean Currents Initiative, but it is wildly 

technical. It is my understanding that the 10 businesses together 

buy energy, and that they buy enough kilowatt energy to last for 

11

3 years, and that the energy is, thus, more efficient than normal, 

such that it saves the District of Columbia and these businesses 

the carbon offset amount of about 185 cars. So they pool together, 

purchase it, they get it for less, savings are about $21,000, and 

they use it for 3-year periods. 

And so that is the extent of my knowledge on it. But we can get 

you more specifics by working with our Department of the Environment and our local business office. 

And then I think your question was about stormwater run-off. 

Again, along the Anacostia, one of the great pollutants is from the 

businesses. We have a lot of work to do in making sure that we 

don’t have a combined sewer run-off into the Anacostia. But one of 

the things that we know is that just literally the run-off from the 

buildings carries all kinds of pollutants into the Anacostia River. 

And, Madam Chair, I actually do have in my notes some of the 

things that are going to be in the stadium. Note for officials like 

myself, check your staff notes. This stuff is usually there. There is 

going to be garages that feature special parking for energy-efficient 

cars and car pools, water-conserving plumbing fixtures, energy-conserving light fixtures including the field lighting. Construction materials will include a minimum of 10 percent recycled content, and 

adhesives paints and glues will be low VOC. And then, of course, 

the intricate stormwater management system, which I suspect is 

like a lot of the green buildings you see where the water is kept 

in the building on the roof, and then it helps to cool the building, 

and then they will find various different ways to actually reduce 

the water on site. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. 

MayorFENTY. Thank you. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Gohmert. 

Mr.GOHMERT. Thank you, Madam Chair. Appreciate the hearing, 

appreciate you all being here. 

And just following up on that and the comments, Mayor Blum, 

you had made, too, about needing the consistency. I was struck because, you know, bio mass itself has proved to be a valuable source 

of alternative energy, and people do need that consistency from the 

Federal Government, and yet just in the last month in Resources 

Committee we had a law, Federal law, that was going to move forward, provide incentives to utilize bio mass as an alternative energy source. And, of course, it was against my vote, but the Majority passed a bill that would pull that program back and not start 

the incentives and do what the government seems to do best, and 

that is do a study for a number of years more to see whether bio 

mass would be helpful, and then come back and look at the grant. 

So it really yanked the rug out from a number of communities in 

my district and others around that couldn’t be characterized as Republican or Democrat, just communities, many of them probably 

majority Democrat. But it sure was a surprise to them. So I guess 

it shouldn’t be a surprise that if there is one entity you know you 

can always not count on, it is probably the Federal Government, 

you know, at the times it is most critical. 

Veering just a little bit because of a recent issue over—well, it 

is not a recent issue, it is a long-term issue, Mayor Fenty. But I 

am curious, with regard to the issues, whether it is green strucVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
12

tures, environmentally friendly structures, I will also come back to 

the issue. And I filed a bill. I felt like the easiest way without a 

constitutional amendment to get Washington, D.C., with proper 

representation not only in the House but in the Senate would do 

what was done over 150 years ago with land on the other side of 

the Potomac where it was just ceded back to Virginia. So I consulted some folk. I had not talked to you, but I have filed a bill. 

I am curious, since I have you here, how you would feel about having land that was not occupied by a Federal building ceded to 

Maryland and making it a part of Maryland, as was done with the 

land across the river for Virginia? 

MayorFENTY. Well, let me just say that I would be lying if I 

didn’t admit that there are District residents who probably do support such a plan, and there probably are some in Maryland. It is 

my experience in having lived here for some time and been an 

elected official now for over 6 years that the majority of residents, 

both in the District and in Maryland, are—just for no other way 

to say it—are just set in our ways, as every one of your constituents probably are. You have become accustomed to the jurisdiction 

being established as it is. And there now is an identity of being in 

Washington, D.C., that probably would make that difficult for most 

of our residents and, again, most Maryland residents, I think, to 

support. 

That being said, our administration, and I think most people in 

Washington, D.C., are very open towards continuing the dialogue. 

We want to thank Congress for supporting the legislation that is 

now before the Senate to give Congresswoman Norton a vote on the 

House floor. We think that is a great step forward, and there are 

lots of different alternatives we can explore going forward, and we 

just appreciate the interest in the subject because it will make a 

big difference on us being able to lead on so many different issues 

like the environment and small businesses. 

Mr.GOHMERT. Well, my big concern was since I agreed with the 

Democrats that led the charge back in the 1970s that it requires 

a constitutional amendment, and even if that were to pass the Senate, become law, it would likely be struck down. I was trying to cut 

to the chase and get you that representation sooner. 

MayorFENTY. Thank you. 

Mr.GOHMERT. Thank you for your efforts. You are the Mayor of 

the city that we all have a vested interest in, so we appreciate your 

work on all of our behalves. 

MayorFENTY. Thank you for your support. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. I have another question for Ms. Blum. 

You mentioned that one of the challenges to encouraging small 

businesses to invest in energy-efficient appliances is that many 

storefront and businesses rent their properties. As such, they may 

not realize the long-term cost savings. A related program is that 

businesses who rent do not receive the tax treatment of building 

owners when it comes to these home improvements. Do you think 

that if Congress were to offer similar tax treatment for small business renters that this may encourage more to invest in energy-saving technologies? 

Ms.BLUM. Thank you for mentioning that because that would 

make a big difference in our city. We have—58 percent of our resiVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
13

dents are renters, which is huge compared to most cities. I think 

most cities have about 70 percent ownership. So here we are with 

that. And then also businesses, I think—and don’t hold me to 

this—but I think it is in the 70 percent of the people who are renting the places where they are having their business. And I think 

if you could somehow tie it to the businesses instead of to the actual building, it would make a big difference to the small businesses for sure. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mayor Fenty, would you like to comment? 

MayorFENTY. No question. I think in the District of Columbia, 

like our dwellers, the businesses probably just are in staggering 

numbers in the amount that actually rent. So I think what you 

would see is you would have a lot more buy-in participation 

amongst businesses going green, and we would love to be able to—

I think establishing some type of pilot for rental businesses, especially very small ones, would go a long way in moving the agenda. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Heller? No questions? 

Mr. Cuellar. 

Mr.CUELLAR. Thank you. Just a general question. When you look 

at the endeavor that I think we are all interested in, that is trying 

to get our cities and our Federal buildings and other office buildings green, we can make efforts. But if you look at the big picture, 

it is one building here, a couple buildings here. How do we do the 

mass education of the public, which is, I think, the hardest part of 

doing it? I mean, how do we get somebody on 6th Street, kind of 

like where I live, right across from the Eastern Farmers Market, 

how do you get folks there that are so busy with their daily lives 

or interested in other things, how do we get them to that point? 

I guess that is the hardest thing. We can appropriate certain dollars, or we can say here at the Capitol, under Pelosi, we will start 

turning green, and we can get several Federal buildings, you can 

do certain municipal buildings. But how do you get the mass 

amount of folks to do that? And I guess that is the hardest question that I can think of. 

MayorFENTY. Let me just say, Mayor Blum mentioned, I think, 

how important incentives are. She has been a mayor longer than 

I have. I can tell you that the Federal dollars that do come down 

for tax credits and such are really paid attention to by the small 

business community. We have got a really vibrant one here in the 

District, represented by the Chamber and the Board of Trade, et 

cetera. So I have no question that as dollars are appropriated, the 

businesses will suck them up and use them for environmental priorities. 

I would also say that—we had to play with this when we passed 

the Green Building Act, how much of a stick, how much of a carrot 

do you use? And I think we came up with a very good compromise. 

We are not mandating every business to do it no matter what, but 

enough of a stick that people will pay a little bit more attention. 

And I think there may be something there on the Federal level 

there as well. You explore legislation. For some businesses you 

have got to meet certain standards, and the way to do that is by 

going green. 

14

Mr.CUELLAR. So the incentives—for example, give me some examples of a stick. Examples of a carrot would be the tax incentives. 

MayorFENTY. Exactly. 

Mr.CUELLAR. A stick, moderate use of a stick would be what? 

MayorFENTY. I think if your building produced a certain amount 

of run-off or wasted energy, then you would probably then have 

to—then you would have to pay some type of additional fee or cost 

to the Federal Government, or if you wanted to do it through the 

local government. I think those are ways to explore. And again, it 

is more of a consciousness-raising issue. But once you do it from 

the bully pulpit, people pay attention. 

Ms.BLUM. If I can add, too, one of the incentives we have found 

helps is that if you are going to use green practices, you can go to 

the head of the line when you are trying to get your permits. And 

that is real simple for us. But there is a scramble to get to the head 

of the line right now because people would rather not have to 

spend months and months and months; instead, a couple weeks 

would be much easier on their business. So that is a big incentive 

for us. 

And the other thing is almost anything that we do in local government, we look for a tipping point, because about 75, 80 percent 

of the people need to be educated or need to start to feel it, whatever it is. And then when you have got them with you, you have 

got it. And I think the green building, at least in Santa Barbara, 

is at the tipping point. It is doing very well because our contractors 

association is all with it so that when you go to hire somebody to 

put in a window at your home, they are going to talk to you about 

green building, because then they can go to the front of the line. 

So I just think that—we are starting a general plan update 

where we go out to the community, and we have had four community meetings. I was amazed at how much of the community is 

talking about green buildings and making things more walkable 

and livable, and it is very refreshing to know that what you say 

in speeches actually is starting to come back at us. 

Mr.CUELLAR. And if I can just—last point. It is true, I think, now 

the word has been at least raised to a point, because I come from 

Texas, and it is a big oil State, but now in Texas we are talking 

about the alternative fuels. We are looking at green buildings, 

which is something that years ago we had never heard before—

well, we had never really talked about it on a practical basis on 

that. 

Madam Chair, thank you very much. Thank you. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Chabot. 

Mr.CHABOT. Yes, I just had a quick question. 

Mr. Cuellar kind of raised this in my mind. When we talk about 

the sticks and the carrots, would you both agree as mayors, and 

being obviously in charge of, you know, cities and part of the government, et cetera, would you agree that it ought to be our goal 

to ultimately use as few sticks as necessary and maybe try to use 

the carrots as much as possible, tax incentives, and ultimately rely 

upon small businesses and entrepreneurship and common sense to 

develop technology which makes economic sense so that you are 

building—the green building occurs because it makes economic 

sense to do it, because we have advanced beyond the need to use 

15

sticks, you know, against businesses and make them do things. 

They will want to do them because it makes economic sense to do 

them. Would that—

Ms.BLUM. We are seeing that right now. When we cut the methane gas off our wastewater treatment center and put it back to the 

fuel cell, and then we found we were saving $35,000 a year, we had 

no idea we would be saving that much money. So it was an eye 

opener. And then we started looking for other things we could do. 

I think businesses are the same way. If they can save money, if the 

payback is in—I will say 5 years or less, that is wonderful. Then 

they will want to do it. Otherwise if the payback is in 30 years, awfully hard to get a small business to do that. 

Mr.CHABOT. Mayor Fenty, I think I saw you nodding as well. 

MayorFENTY. Absolutely. I think we are in the business of spring 

economic developments, so we have to keep sticks to a minimum 

and incentives to a maximum. And I think that this is one of the 

industries and initiatives where the private sector sees the rewards 

as benefits, because if you own a big office building, and you make 

it green, I think your tenants want to come into a building like 

that. 

When we were responding to the Congressman’s question, I think 

there is a role for the government, though, even in just setting 

standards in a law, because while you don’t necessarily have to 

mandate someone to comply, but the setting of standards itself 

raises the awareness of this in a macro way that—and I think you 

then expedite the country going green. So I just wanted to have 

that on the record, that whatever comes out of Congress I think is 

paid attention to on the local level more than you may have even 

known. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you very much. I yield back. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. That was a great closing, by the way. 

MayorFENTY. Thank you. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. With that, I want to take this opportunity once again to thank you. I know that you have a busy schedule. You took time to be with us, and for that we are very grateful. 

This first panel is excused. 

MayorFENTY. Thank you. 

Ms.BLUM. Thank you. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. We welcome the second panel to take 

your seats. 

We are going to move with the second panel. Our first witness 

is Mr. Danny Seo. He is the author of several books that encourage 

Americans to live green lifestyles by offering eco-friendly home design suggestions. At the age of 12, he founded Earth 2000, which 

was the country’s largest teenage activist charity. Through his 

books, how-to lifestyle, weekly Sirius satellite radio program and 

companion TV show, Mr. Seo promotes his widely popular Simply 

Green lifestyle philosophy. 

Mr. Seo, you have 5 minutes to make your presentation. Your entire statement will be entered into the record. 

16

STATEMENT OF DANNY SEO, ENVIRONMENTAL LIFESTYLE 

EXPERT, AUTHOR OF SIMPLY GREEN 

Mr.SEO. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Vela ́zquez and 

members of the Committee. Thank you so much for having me this 

morning. 

As you mentioned, I am an environmental lifestyle expert. And 

I am sure you are probably thinking, if I had a nickel for every 

time I met an environmental lifestyle expert, you would have a 

nickel. But my company produces media content that gives a howto content information to millions of Americans. 

Through our television programs, books, magazine columns, 

products and partnerships with both large and small businesses, 

my personal goal has always been one thing: to show Americans 

how to live a greener life that is simple, stylish and, most importantly, accessible. 

My testimony today will address several points. One, the green 

revolution is more than just a trend, which is key; number two, 

how small businesses can compete with major corporations; and 

three, what needs to be done to help small business in their quest 

to go green, which I think is probably the most important point. 

First I want to talk about the movement. There are two movements going on in consumer tastes and interests. What I believe 

we are seeing at the consumer marketplace is a major shift; it is 

a cultural one where consumers are looking for products and service that gives value to their lives, their homes, their families and 

their community. It is all about quality, not quantity. What we are 

seeing is what I call the meaningful life. It is if our lives, our 

homes, our family, community we live in aren’t disposable, then the 

products we use in our everyday lives shouldn’t be either. And as 

we see this rejection of cheap goods and services and the emergence of green and sustainable living at the crossroads, what we 

have is something that is very interesting. Going green is more 

than just better for the planet. It represents good quality and 

value. 

Now, there has been a lot of attention in the media lately about 

major corporations and manufacturers going green and how it 

might affect small businesses. It rhymes with sprawl mart. But 

small businesses should welcome the green revolution. Here is 

why. Going green is not like adapting quickly to consumer tastes 

and fashion trends. It is a philosophy rooted in the very big idea 

of saving the planet. So as consumers seek out green products, they 

will want what is really, truly the real deal. They want authenticity. A smaller business can create a corporate DNA that has sustainability through and through, while larger corporations struggle 

because of their size. 

So I am going to use the cleaning category as an example. Global 

companies like Procter & Gamble and Clorox have a stronghold on 

the cleaning industry. They also don’t have a history of creating 

nontoxic products. You just have to look at the warning labels. At 

our small company called Method—it is a small company I recently 

partnered with, who took the drudgery idea of cleaning one’s home 

and actually made it fun by making products that are nontoxic and 

packaged in fresh containers with bright colors and pleasant 

scents. Method, a cleaning company, even has thousands of fans 

17

called influencers who volunteer their time to spread the marketing 

message of Method to others. Seriously, when was the last time 

you heard of someone joining a Clorox bleach fan club? 

So as major retailers are going green, they need a company like 

Method to stock their shelves. These retailers can’t turn to a global 

manufacturer to simply invent a green product. It would be 

inauthentic and without any trace of green DNA. So how do the 

small business owners concerned about the environment go green? 

Here is a few ideas. 

First I think one solution is to create an interactive Web site 

which gives small business owners a handful of useful suggestions, 

10 or 20, to help their everyday business needs go greener. It could 

be anything from ideas on choosing energy-efficient lighting, buying green power for their office, to tailored resource listings that 

help set up a recycling system for their office. There could be a 

primer of what going carbon neutral actually means, a way of calculating what their current output is and tips on reducing and neutralizing their footprint. The program would not be dissimilar to 

the Environmental Protection Agency’s Energy Star program Web 

site, which is basically an interactive Web site giving homeowners 

tips on conserving power. 

Another idea is to create a certification program that gives small 

businesses official recognition for going green. This could be modeled after the LEED program, which is a program of the U.S. 

Green Building Council. In the LEED program, buildings that are 

designed in an environmentally sound manner could submit their 

designs to the council for certification. Those who meet LEED requirements are then given ranks ranging from gold to silver to 

platinum, with platinum being the highest, or in this case the 

greenest. Small businesses who adopt green practices could apply 

for a new certification and use the achievement as a marketing 

tool. Since they will need to prove they are, in fact, practicing and 

adopting green practices through a certification program, receiving 

such an honor can be used as a real marketing tool to differentiate 

themselves in a crowded field. Earning this certification will help 

a small business prove their green DNA to the consumer. 

In conclusion, small green businesses need to continue on the 

paths they are leading now. Innovative new products, good service 

and great design and the green space will help them thrive and 

profit. Assistance in educating small business owners who want to 

go green about practices in everyday action will go a long way. 

Taking steps to go green will help these businesses create a foundation of business practices that will go a long way to earning the 

trust and dollars of the American consumer. 

Thank you so much. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Seo. 

[The statement of Mr. Seo may be found in the Appendix on page 

55.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our next witness is Mr. Julius 

Genachowski. He is the cofounder of New Resource Bank in San 

Francisco, California. The New Resource Bank is one of the Nation’s first commercial banks to offer financing aimed specifically at 

green businesses. Mr. Genachowski is also the founder and manVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
18

aging director of Rock Creek Ventures, an advisory and investment 

services firm. Prior to his current position, Mr. Genachowski was 

chief of business operation and a member of the Office of the Chairman at IAC InterActiveCorp. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF JULIUS GENACHOWSKI, COFOUNDER, NEW 

RESOURCE BANK, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. Thank you. Thank you for inviting us to testify. I am testifying as a cofounder of New Resource Bank, a new 

and innovative bank with a mission of providing financing and 

other banking products to businesses serving the broad goal of environmental sustainability. New Resource Bank, the country’s leading commercial green bank, provides banking services to cleantech, renewable energy and other businesses bringing to the market resource-efficient, healthy and environmentally friendly products. The businesses with which we partner, generally small businesses, are creating jobs contributing to U.S. economic growth and 

helping solve some of the Nation’s most challenging problems. 

Our belief is small businesses need banking partners who understand the category, their business models and their needs. We 

opened our doors at New Resource Bank with our first branch in 

San Francisco last November. It has quickly grown to 100 million 

in assets, more than quadrupling in size from launch. We started 

work a number of years ago when there was broad skepticism that 

the words ′′green′′ and ′′business′′ could be used in the same sentence. Today there is a growing consensus that resource efficiency 

is not only a commercial opportunity, but a national imperative. 

We commend the Committee for holding this hearing and for its 

other work in this area. 

My written testimony describes some of the founders and investors, initial investors, in the bank, which include some of the country’s leading entrepreneurs: Mitch Kapor, who developed Lotus Development; Bob Epstein, cofounder of Sybase; Lisa Gansky, cofounder of Ofoto. 

To date New Resource Bank financing has been applied to put 

solar energy systems on roofs, construct energy-efficient buildings, 

helped entrepreneurial businesses expand. In the solar arena we 

introduced financing that makes conversion to solar power as easy 

as possible for both small businesses and homeowners. They can 

use our financing to get solar energy with no money down by simply paying a monthly bill that is roughly the same as a utility bill. 

We have also structured loans that encourage real estate developers to build green by providing a lower interest rate and potentially higher loan-to-value for projects built to LEED levels and energy efficiency and environmental design, and we deployed our capital to help small businesses pursuing strategies based on sustainability. 

Some examples of small business customers to which we provided an expansion capital or other banking services are Solaria, 

a solar technology company developing products that improve the 

efficiency and reduce the cost of solar cells with the goal of allowing solar energy to compete effectively in the market; Sustainable 

Spaces, which provides monitoring and retrofit services to help 

19

small and medium-size businesses improve energy efficiency, reduce utility bills and improve work environments. Revolution Foods 

provides schools with a new food service option that replaces junk 

food with nutritious and good-tasting alternatives, part of a sustainable solution to our health issues; Cowgirl Creamery, a cheese 

maker that is crafting award-winning cheeses with organic and 

sustainably grown ingredients, which just expanded to the District 

of Columbia with a store on S Street. 

We believe there are opportunities for our government to promote the efforts of small businesses like these, giving young businesses a chance to succeed and helping accelerate their growth. 

Today, of the Federal support that exists for alternative energy, 

a good deal is accessible namely by larger businesses and projects, 

such as those targeting coal gassification, large-scale renewable energy production and nuclear energy. Small businesses will be a key 

source of innovation and job creation in this area. 

Some of the opportunities for Federal action are captured in H.R. 

2389, the Small Energy-Efficient Business Act, and we applaud 

this Committee for its work on this bill. SEEBA includes sensible 

modifications of existing SBA loan guarantee programs like SBA 

7A and the 504 program; an expansion of the Small Business Investment Corporation; and a creation of a renewable fuel capital investment program. We support these measures as smart and efficient ways to increase the flow of private capital to small businesses developing or requiring energy-efficient technologies. 

We would like to offer two comments on SEEBA based on our experience at New Resource Bank. First we recommend that the provisions offering more flexible loan terms, such as those applied in 

504 loans, be expanded to include more categories of business. As 

we understand it, the bill now applies to manufacturing businesses, 

and we encourage the inclusion of small businesses in other categories as well, such as agriculture, real estate, construction and 

transportation, if they meet the standards in the bill for developing 

or acquiring energy-efficient technologies. 

Secondly, we suggest a clarification of the more flexible loan 

terms provided by SEEBA so that they are not limited to renewable fuels. We believe the intention of the bill is to support small 

businesses involved in a broad range of alternative energy, not just 

renewable fuel. We read the definitions of the bill as consistent 

with that, but a clarification may be in order. 

We also recommend that the Committee consider changing the 

name of Renewable Fuel Capital Investment Program to the Renewable Energy Capital Investment Program to make this clearer. 

We suggest Congress consider tax credits for renewable energy, 

providing clarity for small businesses. We would recommend Congress to consider updating commodity support payments in the 

farm bill to encourage renewables and sustainable production. The 

U.S. agriculture industry is increasingly embracing the business 

opportunities provided by our need for alternative energy. We encourage Congress to make sure the commodity support system 

doesn’t discourage renewable fuels on farmland, and that it specifically encourages renewable fuel production. 

We also offer our perspective on the debate over measures to 

limit greenhouse gas emissions. We believe economy-wide carbon 

20

emissions limitations will provide a clear signal, spurring investment in commercial solutions to our energy needs. We think small 

businesses would benefit from clear regulation in this area as opposed to vague rules that are hard for them to plan on. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Genachowski, would you be able 

to—

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. Final comment. I speak as not a cofounder of 

New Resource Bank, but a depositor. Our initial capital of 24-1/2 

million came not from a few institutional investors, but from about 

200 individual investors that has been exceeded by funds provided 

by our depositors, over another 75 million more in capital that New 

Resource Bank can deploy in support of its mission. Our depositors 

are attracted by our great service and product features like free 

worldwide ATM access. But my last note is they have also come to 

our bank from around the country, Colorado, Illinois, New York, 

Missouri, Oregon, Texas, Virginia, Wisconsin, Washington State 

and here, District of Columbia. Whether they are from red or blue 

States, they want to bank green. 

Thank you for the chance to give this testimony, and New Resource Bank looks forward for the opportunity to work with the 

Committee in developing legislation in this area. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Genachowski may be found in the Appendix on page 57.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our next witness is Susan Maxman. 

She is the principal in the firm of SMP Architects, located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Her firm offers a full range of architectural 

services, and they have been a leader on green design. 

For her contributions to the profession, Ms. Maxman has received honorary degrees from Ball State University and University 

of Detroit-Mercy, and in 2007 was the initial recipient of the American Institute of Architects, Philadelphia, Thomas Walter Award. 

She is testifying on behalf of the American Institute of Architects 

where she previously served as president. AIA represents the professional interest of over 80,000 members. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF SUSAN MAXMAN, OWNER, SUSAN MAXMAN & 

PARTNERS, ARCHITECTS, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA, 

ON BEHALF OF AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ARCHITECTS 

Ms.MAXMAN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and members of 

the Committee. Good morning. 

Since nearly half of the AI members own or work for small firms, 

we appreciate all the Committee does for small businesses. Thousands of small businesses across the U.S. are realizing the economic benefits of going green. As and architect who has devoted 

much of my career to making the environment much more energyefficient, I am gratified to see how this issue has taken center stage 

in Congress and across the country, but I also see there is much 

more to do. 

According to the Department of Energy, buildings and their construction are responsible for nearly half of all greenhouse gas emissions produced in the U.S. every year. DOE reports the building 

21

sector accounts for 39 percent of the total U.S. Energy consumption, more than both transportation and the industry sectors. The 

same study found that buildings in the U.S. Alone account for 9.8 

percent of carbon dioxide emissions worldwide. That equals nearly 

the same amount of carbon emissions of all sectors of Japan, 

France and the United Kingdom combined, which is startling. 

The data shows the building sector’s impact on the environment 

will only grow over the coming decades. Currently U.S. building 

stock sits at 300 billion square feet. Experts predict that between 

now and 2035, 52 billion square feet will be demolished, 150 billion 

square feet will be remodeled, and another 150 billion square feet 

will be newly constructed. If the United States wants to be the 

world leader of energy efficiency, our buildings must be a significant part of the discussion. 

That is why the AIA has adopted a position stating that all new 

buildings and major renovations to existing buildings be designed 

to meet an immediate 50 percent reduction in fossil fuel-generated 

energy, with further reductions in 2030 when all new and renovated buildings should achieve carbon neutrality. The Senate responded to our call by requiring all new Federal buildings to meet 

these goals as part of their recently passed energy bill. The House 

Committee on Oversight and Government Reform has approved 

similar legislation. 

Building green is critical to the effort to address greenhouse 

gases and reduce our dependence on foreign sources of energy, but 

has another equally important benefit. It is good for business, especially small business. By using energy-efficient building systems 

and technologies, businesses can reduce monthly energy bills, improve worker productivity, increase worker retention and the wellbeing of building occupants. More, they can have a significant impact on the quality of life in their communities. As well, businesses 

that care about their environmental footprint find they have a competitive edge in the marketplace with the growing concern for the 

environment. 

However, significant and very significant barriers remain for 

small businesses that want to go green. I have an example I would 

like to share with you personally. Our firm is currently working 

with an entrepreneur in upstate New York on the design of the 

Worden Hotel, which is a small luxury boutique hotel in the heart 

of Saratoga Springs, New York. The client came to our firm because they wanted to be green, and they wanted a green building. 

Our conceptual design included many strategies, geothermal heating and cooling systems, green roofs, solar hot-water heating, sequestered rainwater for flushing toilets, and on and on and on, 

similar to what the mayor talked about in the big new stadium 

that is being built. 

When the conceptual budget was completed, the client found they 

could not afford to retain many of those strategies and make their 

pro forma for investors work, even though we found other strategies to reduce costs, such as room sizes and other strategies. Although New York State has a very aggressive incentive program 

for energy conservation in buildings, it was not enough to offset the 

cost for the geothermal system and green roofs and other things, 

and the geothermal system has a 10-year payback, but it can make 

22

tremendous difference in terms of energy consumption and environmental quality. 

This is a story that we see over and over again, and small businesses and nonprofits often cannot afford the initial capital investments to create high-performance buildings. 

There are numerous studies that show the initial cost of going 

green can be quickly recouped in the first few years of operation. 

There has been a challenge getting the message through a system 

where first costs are often the only things that the financial institutions see. 

With this in mind, I would like to offer three areas where the 

Committee and Congress can help small business remain at the 

vanguard of creating a more sustainable environment. First we 

need to do more to help small businesses get finances to build 

green. I am pleased to see that the Senate-passed energy bill contains provisions in the SBA to expand its programs to help small 

business become more energy-efficient. I hope this Committee can 

help ensure the energy legislation passed by the House includes 

similar provisions. 

Second, despite the benefits of energy efficiency, many small 

business owners are not aware what they can do to make their 

buildings green. With the technologies changing, there is a way—

there has to be a way to educate them to do that. 

Finally, I believe that this Committee can also help small businesses lead the way by ensuring that Federal agencies that design 

and build buildings follow the law when it comes to hiring architects and engineers. The last 35 years the Federal Government has 

required that agencies procure architectural and energy services 

based on which firm is most qualified and not who is the lowest 

bidder. Thanks to this law, the Federal Government has benefited 

from the highest quality of design, and smaller firms have had 

much more of a level playing field. 

In recent years more and more agencies are circumventing this 

law by putting design services on GSA’s competitive schedules and 

by bundling contracts in ways that give large corporations unfair 

advantages over small firms. At a time when we are looking to the 

Federal Government to make its buildings more efficient, the last 

thing we should do is lock out small design firms at the very cutting edge of sustainable design. 

Small businesses have always been at the forefront. With the 

help of this Committee we can lead the way in designing and building a more sustainable future. 

I thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Maxman may be found in the Appendix 

on page 61.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our next witness is Bob Jones. He is 

the president of Robert Jones Homes, which specializes in land development and the design and construction of single-family luxury 

homes throughout Detroit. 

Mr. Jones is the 2007 vice president of the National Association 

of Home Builders. The National Association of Home Builders is a 

District of Columbia-based trade association representing more 

23

than 235,000 residential home building and remodeling industry 

members. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF BOB JONES, PRESIDENT, ROBERT R. JONES 

HOMES, BLOOMFIELD HILLS, MICHIGAN, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF HOME BUILDERS 

Mr.JONES. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman and distinguished members of the Committee. My name is Bob Jones. I 

am a home builder from Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, and I am the 

vice president and secretary of the National Association of Home 

Builders, NAHB. NAHB represents over 235,000 members, who 

employ millions of individuals in the home building, remodeling, 

multifamily and light commercial construction industry. 

I am here to talk about the success that our Nation’s home builders, many of which are small businesses, have had in cultivating 

a progressive green building program that is producing sustainable, 

energy- and resource-efficient homes throughout the country, 

NAHB members build more than 80 percent of all new homes in 

the United States, and by the end of 2007, more than half of our 

members will be incorporating green building practices into the development, the design and the construction of these new homes. 

Because housing is such a major part of our Nation’s economy, 

home builders have the potential to profoundly affect sustainability, conserve natural resources and preserve our environment. 

I am proud to say NAHB members are true leaders in the green 

building movement. We have been implementing green practices 

for over a decade. According to McGraw-Hill, about 10 percent of 

the homes built in 2010 will be green homes, which is a major 

jump from 2 percent in 2006. 

Being green is more than being trendy. Green building means 

making an intentional decision to positively impact energy efficiency, preserve resources, and to reduce and recycle waste 

throughout the entire design and construction process and for the 

life of the home. 

NAHB took the lead in 2005 working with more than 60 stakeholders, environmentalists, builders, product manufacturers and 

designers and developed agreed-upon criteria to guide builders on 

how to construct a green home. These model green home-building 

guidelines were developed for use by any builder. To date more 

than 100,000 green homes have been built in voluntary programs. 

Two dozen local homeowner associations have adopted programs 

based on these guidelines, and dozens more are in development. 

Some have already been endorsed by State and local governments. 

The net effect is thousands of homes are being built to green criteria. 

NAHB has proactively adopted a policy of promoting green building as a means of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, 

NAHB has partnered with the International Code Council, the preeminent authority for building codes, to produce and develop the 

first true national green building standard for residential construction. The standard will be accredited by the American National 

Standards Institution, which you may know by the term ANSI. It 

will be an industry-wide consensus-based and certifiable benchVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00029 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
24

mark for all residential construction types, single-family, multifamily, remodeling and land development. 

The Committee that is developing the standard includes members from the United States EPA, the Department of Energy, the 

United States Navy, many State and local housing agencies, nongovernmental building organizations, small custom home builders 

and remodelers. Both members and the general public will have 

the opportunity to influence its development, and once published, 

the standard will periodically be reviewed and revised to ensure its 

rigor and integrity. 

Healthy competition in the green building market will only continue to drive its growth and innovation, as well as keep costs 

down for home buyers so that green homes are affordable and people can easily make the green choice. NAHB urges Congress to preserve competition in the market by keeping it free of mandates; to 

foster greater awareness by sponsoring education campaigns for 

consumers about the benefits of green construction; and extending 

and expanding the tax incentives for highly efficient new homes. 

NAHB is now developing a national green building program that 

will not only support the standard I mentioned earlier, but will also 

help State and local governments to implement green building 

practices. The housing industry’s commitment to increasing energy 

and resource efficiency in home construction is demonstrated by 

the development of the national green building standard and program. 

On behalf of the Nation’s home builders representing many small 

businesses I thank you. I thank you all for the opportunity to speak 

here today about our industry’s advances in green building and our 

leadership in the green revolution. I will be happy to answer any 

questions, and certainly we will work with you in the future. 

Thank you. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Jones. 

[The statement of Mr. Jones may be found in the Appendix on 

page 66.]

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. And now I recognize Ranking Member 

Chabot for the purpose of introducing the next witness. 

Mr.CHABOT. I would like to introduce Mary Beth McGrew, who 

is a LEED-certified architect with 16 years’ experience in working 

in private architecture and engineering firms. She currently works 

at the University of Cincinnati as the associate vice president of 

campus planning and design. The University of Cincinnati has over 

16 million square feet of space and over 30,000 undergraduate students. There are five campuses, with the largest in the uptown 

area within the city of Cincinnati, and her department addresses 

the campuses’ design standards, space management and allocation, 

programming and planning, capital planning, real estate and environmental graphics. And we welcome you here for your testimony 

here this morning. 

Ms. McGrew. 

25

STATEMENT OF MARY BETH McGREW, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY 

ARCHITECT CAMPUS BUILDING DIVISION, UNIVERSITY OF 

CINCINNATI 

Ms.MCGREW. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman, Congressman 

Chabot and members of the Committee, thank you very much for 

this opportunity to testify before you today on behalf of the University of Cincinnati’s green building efforts and the relationship that 

these efforts have and will continue to have for small businesses. 

Small businesses can be benefited from being selected for services 

and products that meet our university’s green specifications. 

Located in the heart of Cincinnati’s uptown area, the University 

of Cincinnati is a first-tier research public institution with over 

36,000 students, and it is the largest employer in Cincinnati’s region. 

The university has made grade strides in our green building construction with all of our new buildings, and we are learning more 

and more each day that we can apply to OUR future design and 

construction and renovation projects along with the maintenance 

and operations of our facilities. We want the University of Cincinnati to be a healthy, pleasant and provocative place to live, 

learn and also a benefit to the small businesses in the region. 

Recognizing its environmental stewardship role, the university 

seeks to incorporate the concept of sustainability into its academic 

and research programs, the design and operation and maintenance 

of its buildings and landscape, and its organizational structure and 

management, while preserving safety and comfort. 

You have heard about some of the statistics. During the last 16 

years, the construction at the university has resulted in over 48 

percent of a transformation of that campus and its built environment. We now have a cohesive and coherent assembly of new buildings, renovated buildings, recreation facilities, improved residential 

environments, athletics and performance venues, and sculpted 

landscapes and plazas. 

Because of the great extent of our building efforts, and because, 

as the U.S. Green Building Council reports, the huge amount of energy use, the 37 percent of total energy use with buildings, 65 percent of the buildings with electric consumption across the country 

being responsible for 30 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions 

and 30 percent of raw materials used, 30 percent of waste output 

and 12 percent of potable water consumption, we considered embracing green construction for our buildings as the right thing to 

do for our campus and our campus community. 

Economically it should have paybacks in energy savings, but that 

was not the only reason we did it. It moves the university forward 

in the responsible use of our natural resources, and it is the responsible thing to do for our current citizens and the most important thing for our future citizens that we are in the business of 

educating. 

We see that society, business, and the environment and the economy are all interconnected. The university’s physical campus has 

a role in the education of the campus community and in the incorporation of green building principles. It provides an educational opportunity for the community at large. 

26

The building industry, according to the U.S. GBC, represents the 

largest economic sector in the U.S. and the second largest manufacturing sector. Green building is very directly concerned with regionally specific issues, and so there are natural links to local and 

small businesses. Small businesses that make the materials green 

building use will grow as demand rises, and we have seen evidence 

of this already. 

In our projects, construction waste was recycled by local companies. Many materials used in the construction were required to be 

from a local and regional area. The site development required capturing of rainwater. We used that as irrigation for plants and landscaping. It also required knowledge of local methods for protecting 

the site during construction and the kinds of soils that are unique 

to our region. We support the city’s transportation system by having negotiated the faculty, staff and students ride in the area for 

no cost to us. 

The university is involved in collaborations for the successful development and use of new technologies and process that contribute 

to better building efforts in all of our research efforts. So there are 

just a few of the opportunities for green building and local businesses and small businesses to link. 

Construction of green buildings at UC benefits small businesses 

in a number of ways. Small companies with the right knowledge, 

and this is a knowledge-based economy, can benefit from green construction practices. For example, at the time the recreation center 

at the university was being commissioned, that is making sure that 

all of the systems worked as they were designed to, our commissioning agent was actually a sole practitioner. Local businesses can 

supply green goods and services. With 36,000 customers we can 

significantly capture the marketplace. 

Contractors and construction companies have learned to use the 

tools of green building trade when they design, build, and help 

maintain the buildings for our institution. 

Another example is there is a need for a sports floor produced in 

part from our local region and to have solvent-free adhesives. One 

of our local flooring companies has developed just such a product, 

and that product was both local and green. 

Students. That is what we are all about, the students. They will 

live and enjoy the green buildings at UC. They will take higher expectations for sustainability with them when they leave the university and join small businesses. UC students are the future of small 

businesses, and their experience with green building should serve 

to advance sustainability efforts for many years to come. 

In closing, I would like to let you know our president has joined 

the President’s climate commitment modeled after the mayor’s climate commitment that the mayor from Santa Barbara was talking 

about. 

Thank you very much for this opportunity. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you very much. 

[The statement of Ms. McGrew may be found in the Appendix on 

page 73.]

27

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. I believe that is a call for how many 

votes? Four. So I am going to start asking questions, and we will 

recess and come back. 

Mr. Jones, I would like to address my first question to you. You 

mention in your testimony that by 2007 more than half of the home 

builders members will be incorporating green practices in the development, design and construction of new homes. What kind of incentives are necessary to convince even more builders to construct 

green homes? 

Mr.JONES. I think at first when we were talking before about 

sticks and that approach to it, and then I agreed with the Congressman who said we are sort of past that entity. The main thing, 

I think, that is an incentive, number one, is competition. That, in 

my view—and I hadn’t heard anybody mention that—in my view 

is one of the—certainly I know as a businessman, as a home builder that competition drives me in many instances. 

Secondly, I had the opportunity about 3 weeks ago to go to a reception at the Smithsonian with some of the tribal groups as well 

as many representatives of EPA were there, and I have to tell you 

and share with all of you that I could not mention green building 

without having three or four or five people gather around me just 

at an informal reception in terms of their interest. It is what I 

would call hot, the green building, and I think my response is as 

I said to you, Madam Chairwoman. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Jones, can you talk to us about how 

do we get more contractors to become aware of Federal programs 

or incentives that encourage green construction? 

Mr.JONES. Certainly one of the ways of just what you are doing 

here today in terms of the fallout that hopefully will come from 

this. 

Secondly, you may know in my last comment, my last half sentence, we not only thank you for being here, but even more importantly we want to continue serving you in any way we can to get 

this through. 

Thirdly, in terms of across the country, it is really a hot item. 

It is hot in terms of not only the builders, obviously, from our statistics, but also from the consumers’ perspective. And so I just 

think—the comment was made to me, and I don’t know the year, 

whether it be by 2010 or 2015, you will not hear of green building. 

That sounds like somewhat of an outlandish statement, but I really 

think that it is coming on that quickly that what will happen anymore than any builder or anyone in our profession or related profession hears anymore that, gee, this builder does code-approved 

houses. It will just be accepted that it is green built. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Can you talk to us about the fact that 

you believe, or maybe some of the members of the home builders 

believe, that you need to create your own separate certification, 

separate from LEED? Can you talk to us about why it might be 

necessary for home builders to establish their own industry certification? 

Mr.JONES. Yes. Let me give you an example that hits everyone 

that—you at the dais, but also people in this room and people everywhere, that we don’t think it should be mandated, and that is 

part of their program. We think it almost must be voluntarily. The 

28

reason my first comment about why is that—let’s think of all of us. 

Many of us are parents, many of us have children that will be moving into new homes or moving into homes period, and we want it 

so that there is various levels, there is not just one level. There is 

a level in—our approach to it is bronze, silver, gold. We are developing, as I mentioned, standards because we want the ability that 

someone wants to go green, someone wants to have a green residence, that there is various levels. So when you start talking about 

affordability, and we talk about our own children, that they have 

to have something we believe that is affordable yet have both 

worlds, have the beginning of the green building. That to me is extremely important, the affordability issue for our children. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Do you want to make any questions 

now? 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will go ahead and ask 

mine quickly, if I can. I think I will begin with you, Ms. McGrew, 

since you are from Cincinnati and all. 

Relative to—

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Not being biased. 

Mr.CHABOT. Not being biased at all. 

Approximately how much did it cost to build the Steger Center 

green versus how much it could have cost in traditional construction, and how quickly would you expect to get a considerable return 

back on that investment? 

Ms.MCGREW. Well, our buildings are designed by—are very welldesigned buildings, and we don’t believe that it costs us any more 

to design them green. 

At the time the Steger Center was done, it may have cost the architecture firm a little bit more to submit the paperwork, although 

the council is working hard on making that not be an expensive 

proposition for the firm. We did not perform so many radical techniques to the building that it significantly contributed to the cost. 

Mr.CHABOT. You also mentioned in your testimony construction 

materials. Were you talking about when you tore down a building, 

the materials were used in other buildings in the community? 

Ms.MCGREW. I was referring to both. We tore down the parking 

structure when we started construction on the medical center, and 

that concrete was a significant recycling effort for a local company. 

Our contractors are very good at recycling waste during construction. Every piece of glass comes with packaging material, and there 

are volumes of waste generated in new construction. That, too, is 

required to be recycled on site. I think Mr. Jones alluded to that 

as well. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you. 

Mr. Jones, we have votes, but I want to emphasize again what 

you talked about, mandates and the way this ought to be done because it makes business sense to do it, as opposed to requiring 

home builders or anybody else that you have to do it, how important that is. And you also mentioned, I believe, the tax incentives, 

how important it is that when we have tax incentives, when we 

here at Congress pass laws where there is—we are trying to make 

folks in the private sector go with green building because we are 

helping out in the Tax Code, but if we make the tax changes go 

29

away in a couple years, you can’t plan on that long term. Could you 

discuss those two issues? 

Mr.JONES. Yes, sir. First of all, the requirement to do it a certain 

way, the way we are looking at it is the format for it, the format, 

to use your words, that you used in relation to the tax incentive, 

that we want to make sure it is sustainable. Now, I don’t mean 

sustainable in terms of the green building, but sustainable in the 

sense of that as how the—our children and in the following generations, that this is sustained in terms of the green building and 

hopefully reaches the highest level. We think it is inappropriate to 

have it mandated, much, sir, as you alluded in the other panel in 

terms of that kind of approach to things, and we appreciate your 

comments in that regard. 

In terms of the tax incentives, again, we are on the same wavelength, so to speak. From the counting on it in terms of the green 

building year to year, it will naturally in that instance begin to 

take charge of itself because of the demand that already exists, but 

in terms of the tax incentives, that will help, obviously, our industry. 

I mentioned in my original comments to everyone that 80 percent 

of all new homes in the United States are built by NAHB members. 

It is important to understand that the 80 percent represents home 

builders that build less than 10 houses a year. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Jones, we could continue, but we 

have only 5 minutes to go to the floor to vote. The Committee will 

stand in recess, and we will resume after the last vote. 

[Recess.] 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Chabot, you may continue asking 

questions. 

Mr.CHABOT. Ms. Maxman, you mentioned about the 70-room 

hotel that was going to be built, and they ultimately didn’t build 

it because the cost didn’t work out—

Ms.MAXMAN. No, they are going to build it. They won’t be able 

to do all the green strategies. 

Mr.CHABOT. Most of the project was that, and my point was 

going to be this: Is there—you aren’t a person, or are you—do you 

believe it should have been mandated by the government that they 

had to do certain things regardless of what the cost would have 

been, or do you think it is appropriate incentives, but not necessarily mandates? 

Ms.MAXMAN. It depends on what it is. There could be mandates 

at certain levels. I don’t think mandates in a large scale would be 

really a worthwhile thing. I think it is really more the carrot and 

the stick kind of thing. 

A couple of examples of different things. First of all, in the case 

of this hotel, the big problem there, the up-front costs, if we can 

figure out ways to finance up-front costs, whether it be in the private sector or within the government, to allow for these incentives. 

If you put in a geothermal system, the payback can be 5 to 10 to 

15 years. It is a worthwhile thing to do, but many small businesses 

do not have that capital outlay that they can commit to it. If there 

is a way to finance that or to give them some financial incentive. 

NYSERDA, the New York organization—you probably know about 

30

it, Chairwoman—they do have some incentives, but they are not 

enough to really cover these kinds of costs. 

The other thing is the stick issue, using an example of what happens in Atlanta, Georgia, with stormwater. You are charged—they 

have a combined sewer system, and you are charged a very high 

fee now for putting stormwater into the system because they have 

to purify all of it because it is combined with the sanitary system. 

Georgia Tech University has developed this entire new strategy 

where they are in 15 years never going to have one bit of 

stormwater into their system by all of these wonderful methods. It 

will pay back in time easily. And more people are going to start to 

look at how they can recharge water basins and not put 

stormwater into our stormwater systems. So those are examples. 

That is in a way a mandate because it is, you know, an economic 

mandate in a way. 

I think that the creative financing is really where I think these 

things should be happening, and tax incentives, and low-interest 

loans and things like that. That is where I think we have to really 

start working on it and making a difference and really maybe—I 

don’t know, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, whether you all can do 

things with them, but I think that is where these things are really 

going to happen. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Genachowski, you represented your support for economywide carbon emission limitations. While it is true it would create 

a boon for the green products and services industry, have you analyzed how such restrictions would affect other industries; and 

wouldn’t really incentives such as those through the Tax Code provide perhaps a more realistic approach to limiting carbon emissions, or should that be a part of it? 

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. It is a good question. An overall national 

strategy for addressing a variety of issues on the table will have 

to incorporate many solutions. I think the point you have been 

making consistently today about the need for small businesses to 

have certainty we agree with. The worst-case scenario is one 

where, especially for small businesses, they start going down a 

road to discover that the rules are different. One of the things we 

hear from our small business customers, we would rather know 

what the rules are than not and find out later. 

Is it possible on climate issues to have broad, national, clear 

goals that are implemented in flexible ways with respect to small 

businesses? We don’t really consider ourselves experts on the overall climate change issue. 

On the issue of providing financial incentives, loan guarantees, 

flexible loan terms for small businesses, we do know more about 

that as an institution and are very excited about that. New businesses like ours tend to be founded on some combination of rigorous analysis and anecdote. One of the anecdotes that drove the 

founding of this bank was a local small business person who wanted to start a restaurant as part of one of the national franchise 

chains, and he wanted to bill the company and create a few jobs, 

but he wanted to do it in a way that was green. So typically what 

will happen is a franchisee will decide to do it, will get the plans 

and financial model from the chain, go to a bank which will have 

31

seen these before, and they say, we understand; boom, the loan is 

approved. 

He said, look, I would like to do this in a green way, I would like 

to make some changes with respect to energy, I think it is the right 

thing to do. I also think my utilities bills will be cheaper down the 

road, and I think it will pay for itself. He couldn’t get the loan for 

the extra amount. That struck us as economically illogical, because 

the payback was there, the business model was solid, it was one 

of the things that lead to a bank willing to say, we understand the 

business models, and we are willing to engage in this loan. 

There will be some loans that new businesses will pursue that 

will be harder to justify on strict economic grounds, and the kinds 

of things this Committee is considering with respect to SBA loan 

guarantees are extremely helpful. It allows a bank like ours to say, 

this is great, we will share the risk with the Federal Government 

here on the portion of this that supports public policy but is a little 

bit riskier for the future. It makes a difference in the market. So 

we do think the SBA program will make a real difference, and if 

it can be expanded to more business categories, we think we can 

write more loans in the area. 

Mr.CHABOT. If I have time for one more question? 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. 

Mr.CHABOT. Mr. Seo, you mentioned some products or the company Procter & Gamble, which also happens to be located in Cincinnati, and we love Tide and Pampers and Crest and Gillette and 

all products and brands that Procter & Gamble is engaged in, but 

that is irrelevant. I just wanted to throw that in there. 

The question I had—and first of all, my congratulations on starting a business at 12 years of age. That was very impressive, and 

to carry on since that time is really quite inspirational for a lot of 

people. 

Could you discuss a little bit, you know, being green, whether it 

is building or products or the rest, versus, you know, job creation 

and business, and kind of the idea being in some people’s minds, 

they think you can be one or the other, but you can’t really be 

green and for growth and more employment and new jobs and all 

that kind of stuff. I don’t agree with that, but there is that mindset out there. 

Could you discuss that issue? 

Mr.SEO. I think the interesting part about creating a business or 

turning your business into a green business is that you are actually 

creating a level of trust with your customer, sort of the level of 

trust you would have with your doctor. You trust your doctor on 

a certain level, something you sort of have to agree to or believe 

in. 

I think when your business adopts green practices, it shows your 

potential customers that you are more than about a profit for your 

business; you also have a concern for the community, the environment, the planet. You sort of gain their trust for the long term. 

So what we have seen in one of our clients who was a hotel 

chain, one suggestion was when someone shows up in a hybrid car, 

we would waive the valet parking fees. A lot of customers felt this 

was a great reward for doing the right thing, but with customers 

it became a great travel tip also for people to stay at the hotel, to 

32

rent hybrid cars at the airport, and it actually increased their business, too. So it is win-win if you market it the right way. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you. I yield back my time. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. For the record, I have a hybrid car. 

Mr. Genachowski, you talk about the financing contained in the 

legislation we passed here. I would like to ask you of the loans that 

the New Resource Bank provides, roughly what percentage are financed through SBA programs? 

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. I will have to get back to you on the exact 

number. 

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. My understanding is that we are writing some 

504 loans now. We haven’t written 7 loans yet. We would like to. 

Part of it is a lot of the businesses that we are seeing in our first 

market are small businesses that probably don’t qualify right now 

under the terms, but that would qualify under the bill as proposed, 

and certainly if it could be expanded to cover more categories of 

business. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. And do you think that if we can provide 

financing to SBA loans, if you could offer better terms, financing 

terms, that will facilitate the growth of energy-efficient businesses? 

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. We absolutely think that. 

Responding to another question, how do we get the word out 

about this, one thing the Committee in Congress can do is leverage 

small businesses like ours who would like to get the message out. 

So we would love to have the tool of an expanded SBO—SBA loan 

program. We would put signs up in our banks and use it in our 

marketing materials because we are excited about sharing the risk 

with the Federal Government on promoting some of these loans. 

We see it as good business. We can write more loans if we share 

the risk with another party. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Jones, the Energy Policy Act of 

2005 included tax incentives for builders and homeowners who put 

in energy-efficient appliances and materials. It obviously has been 

important to your industry and helped many homeowners. Unfortunately, of the $8 billion in tax breaks in that bill, only about 6 percent went towards energy efficiency and renewable energy. Would 

you agree that directing more of these tax incentives to small businesses should be a priority for this Congress to address the issue 

of energy consumption? 

Mr.JONES. Yes, Congresswoman, I would. I have a note here that 

the Energy Policy Act of 2005 is one important way to help smaller 

businesses who may not be able to absorb costs as easily as larger 

builders. Now, that is sort of an oversimplification. 

May I add one other thought? 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. 

Mr.JONES. One of the things I was thinking in terms of incentives, that Congress could offer grants for green building training, 

training of builders, but I wouldn’t limit it—I think someone made 

the comment before, I wasn’t sure from the dais there, they were 

thinking about it for a particular group. We think it should be for 

a variety of groups, obviously the National Association of Home 

Builders; there are LEEDs and other entities. 

We are in a position, the National Association of Home Builders, 

because of our size and involvement, we would make our own 

33

standard, but we are inviting everyone. I think that is what I sort 

of want to leave you with today philosophically, that we—as I said 

before, we want to continue to participate with this Committee, if 

you will have us, for our input. I also thought if the Committee 

would feel comfortable with this, we might send additional notes, 

if that would be okay with you. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. Also we passed legislation here to 

reauthorize the small business development centers. It is a national network through SBA. One of the important things they 

could do is educate the small businesses in terms of energy efficiency throughout the country. 

Mr.JONES. It would be very helpful to continue that. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Because of the emergence of eco-friendly 

options, such as low—soy-based paints, low-flush toilets, compact 

fluorescent light bulbs and organic cleaning supplies, American 

consumers are better able to make environmentally conscious 

choices. Despite the success of these products, does cost remain a 

barrier for many purchasers? 

Mr.SEO. I think it is a misconception that green products cost 

more. Part of my job through our television show and magazine columns is to identify the products and services as both ecological and 

economical. The good thing about a boom in the green industry is 

that there is competition, and there are new companies making 

products, and with competition we discovered our prices have come 

down significantly. In some cases a compact fluorescent light bulb 

is cheaper when bought in quantity than a traditional incandescent 

light bulb now. So I think the more we can educate and point people in the right direction, the more people will see that saving 

money can actually be saving the environment, too. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Cost will be less of an issue if we can 

get more suppliers entering the market. 

Mr.SEO. Absolutely. I think it is also identifying who these suppliers are. So I feel the tipping point or cultural shift for green 

products is just a few years ago. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. What lead you at age 12—what really 

attracted you; what was in your mind? 

Mr.SEO. The spark. I happen to share the same birthday as 

Earth Day, and it is an unusual holiday because it is a lot of gloom 

and doom. It is about the rain forest burning down and the ozone 

layer disappearing. At 12 you are impressionable. I believed everything that I read, and I assumed back in 1989 that the world would 

be over by the year 2000, so I started Environmental Group as my 

12th birthday wish, and my parents gave me $23, and I started a 

group. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Great. 

Ms. Maxman, since the inception in 1994, LEED has been a 

standard for certifying green buildings. Your firm has been involved in a number of products that has used this certification. 

How effective do you think current LEED standards are in designating green buildings? 

Ms.MAXMAN. That is a great question. I started doing green 

buildings before LEED was even on the radar screen, so we sort 

of do green buildings and then apply the LEED standards to them. 

34

I think LEED has been phenomenal in terms of raising the 

awareness of green buildings. People are competitive, and so you 

have universities that say, we have to have a LEED platinum 

building, or, we have to have a LEED gold building. And I say, 

wait a minute, we are just going to design a really good environmentally sensitive building. If it is a really good building, it will 

be a LEED building. 

I think it is fabulous in terms of what it has done to raise awareness. I do think right now it is going through some iterations and 

changes. I think it needs to start looking at carefully the quality 

of point systems and really be much more kind of qualitative in 

terms of how they do it instead of quantitative so that you can’t 

produce a bad building that is a LEED-graded building. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Where do you need improvement in addressing the concerns of architects? 

Ms.MAXMAN. I think from my point of view, and I have said this 

to the Green Building Council, and it is a personal point of view, 

it is not the AI point of view at all, I feel that they need to address 

their value system. When you can get a certain amount of points 

for getting a bike rack, the same kind of points for doing something 

much more significant, that is where they have to figure out how 

to do this to really make sure that people have a holistic sense. 

For example, how could you ever have a LEED-certified building 

in Texas if it doesn’t conserve water? And yet you could, by the 

way that you get these points. So I think you have to look at what 

is the big idea. Every project there is something that is the most 

important thing that you have to do that has to do with where you 

are, the context of the building and where it is placed. Not everything is equal. So in Texas you must conserve water.

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Ms. McGrew. Sorry. In terms of constructing the student center 

and other parts of the campus, did you essentially limit the number 

of businesses who were able to work? Basically my question is did 

you find that many firms were not familiar with green construction 

and unable to bid on the project? 

Ms.MCGREW. I don’t know the answer to that specifically. I do 

know that there was more work on the part of the architects to assist the construction early on. And then over the 16 years as LEED 

became more familiar, especially on major project construction, it 

was not as big of a problem. That was more the means and methods. 

And since you asked me about LEED, may I clarify one thing? 

Congressman Chabot, you asked me about the cost. On the Steger 

Center we didn’t implement any significant technical issues that 

caused an increase in cost, but I would be misleading if I didn’t say 

on other projects we did; for example, to put in all the underground 

piping to collect the stormwater. We expect to get a payback from 

that in terms of water conservation and in our medical school as 

well. Those energy saving costs are significant. So we are all—balancing those to report on them. 

But in answer to your question, I don’t know that we really 

eliminated people. Our specifications, because we are a public instiVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:16 Dec 20, 2007 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00040 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\36108.TXT LEANN
35

tution, are open enough to invite different kinds and different companies. So I don’t recall any complaints. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Well, no. It is just to see how—if there 

weren’t small businesses who were able to participate or compete 

because of the requirements. 

Ms.MCGREW. It would be a very good question to ask, and it 

would be a very good question to ask a lot of the local contractors. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. 

Ms.MCGREW. I think early on they might have been a little bit 

more intimidated than they are now since it is so common. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Jones. 

Mr.JONES. Thank you. 

I would like to make a comment. First of all, typically—I want 

to use the word ′′typically′′—LEED is aimed, quite frankly, at highend type, whether it be builders, or obviously their reputation has 

come from the high end, as has been mentioned, whether it be hotels, whether it be those kind of examples. 

And then I would like to add also, and this we got from the 

USGBC council, that they estimate that a LEED home—let me underline home, but that is the business we are in, residential 

homes—could add 12,000 to 15,000 to the cost, just for your information. 

Ms.MCGREW. May I comment on that? 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes, Ms. McGrew. 

Ms.MCGREW. I wanted to clarify the high end. I think it is true. 

High end makes me think of expensive and fancy, and I think 

maybe it is a matter of size that the LEED certification system—

if a building is 20,000 square feet and over, at least—and, Susan, 

you can correct me, that is kind of in the architect’s language. If 

it is 20,000 square feet and over, there is enough mechanisms in 

place that it is not a huge burden. For smaller structures, the system wasn’t designed to be as accommodating to those, and I think 

rightfully so. The U.S. Green Building Council went after the buildings that used the most energy, and those are the big ones. I just 

wanted to clarify that. 

Mr.JONES. I think that is absolutely true. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. My last question—I wanted to 

address it to Ms. Maxman, but if there is any other witness who 

would like to answer it. 

At present, who do you feel is driving the advancement of green 

buildings, building owners, designers and builders, government, or 

the public in general? 

Ms.MAXMAN. That is a really good question. I truthfully think it 

is the building owners. And I think it all started with LEED. I 

really do. You know, because I—you know, back in 1991, when I 

started on this path to doing green buildings, I mean, there were 

none then or very few. And you know—and I was the one who was 

always driving it to my clients and saying, look, and making them 

aware of it and everything. But now, you know, I think everyone 

knows about LEED, and truthfully I do feel that it started with the 

institutions and the nonprofits that were the—they were the first 

wave of interest, because, you know, they keep their buildings 

longer; they really do kind of, you know, always have in mind the 

greater good, et cetera, and so on, and the examples. 

36

And then slowly, you know, now the commercial end of it has 

taken place, because the marketplace is dictating it, because of 

what you are saying—what we are all seeing is this green tide. So 

people realize that there is a great advantage, and the developers 

and the builders and so on realize there is a big advantage to being 

able to say that I am a green building and so on, and I am a 

LEED-certified building. A lot of that has to do with certification. 

A lot of clients want to be certified so they can put the plaque on 

the wall and say, I am a LEED building. And I don’t think it is 

the government at all. I really don’t. In the case of GSA or something like that or the Navy or something, they obviously—they are 

the ones who have determined—and I think that architects introduced that to the Navy and to GSAand so on. I think that we really 

were responsible for those agencies coming on board. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Any other members of the panel? 

Mr.GENACHOWSKI. I agree with Susan that the demand is coming 

organically, so to speak. It is coming from building owners and the 

public for a whole series of reasons. But there is more demand than 

there is ability to actually build some of the green projects. This 

is where the kind of work that the Committee is doing in helping 

whether it is individual homeowners, small businesses or others act 

on their desires by helping bring together businesses and capital so 

that the projects can go forward. I think there is less of a demand 

issue now than there is of supply of capital issue. 

Ms.MAXMAN. I absolutely agree with that. 

Mr.JONES. I just think the Committee might take into consideration I think there is two separate entities we are talking about. 

One, when we talk about buildings, we tend to think in terms of 

commercial, of large—when Ms. McGrew said about 20,000 square 

feet, well, I don’t know too many houses that are 20,000 square 

feet, okay? So I would just like you all to make that distinction because I think in—as I said in my earlier testimony that in the past 

7 years our industry has done 100,000 homes green, and so I just 

think—I think it is a combination of what is causing it to move, 

as your good question indicated. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Any other members? Okay. 

So Mr. Chabot. 

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you. I will try to be brief. 

Ms. McGrew, one final question, maybe two. The one thing, relative to, say, UC’s campus, University of Cincinnati, it is obviously 

essentially landlocked, and there are always challenges when you 

are building in an area as opposed to out in the suburbs or a more 

rural area. Does that also affect when you are trying to build something green, when you have more of a confined area that you are 

dealing with? Are the challenges perhaps a little bit greater, and 

do you have to be a bit more creative or—

Ms.MCGREW. I don’t know if it is because it is green, but it is 

certainly much more challenging to build in an urban environment, 

and ours is one, and it is landlocked. We also think that is part 

of being green. The denser you are, the easier it is to be green and 

to access public services and to link with our city. So while it is 

a challenge for space, it is also an opportunity, and we are surrounded by so many businesses that can talk to each other, so 

there is a nice network. So I think it is a balance. 

37

Mr.CHABOT. Okay. And then the other question somewhat related. Using the DAAP building as an example, which is—for those 

that aren’t familiar with it, it is, shall we say, creative, unique, 

very few right angles. 

Ms.MCGREW. Our example of indeterminate space is what I tell 

people. 

Mr.CHABOT. My daughter is a graduate of the program there and 

got a very good job on her own and is doing very well. But in any 

event—and it is one of the best programs in the country for what 

it does. She is in graphic design. But the building is very unusual 

in the way it, you know, appears. And so is the Vontz building, 

which I also think is part of the university. Isn’t it down the street? 

Ms.MCGREW. Yes, it is. It is our east campus, but it is part of 

our medical campus. 

Mr.CHABOT. And it is, shall we also say, very unique. And not 

being one who considers himself to be terribly knowledgeable about 

what is artistic and what is not, I am not going to weigh into, you 

know, what I think about those particular—

Ms.MCGREW. Our buildings are educational in nature. They 

teach you to think about space. 

Mr.CHABOT. They really do. So my question is this: With those 

two buildings in mind—and when those were built, I think those 

were built more from what we are talking about here today, kind 

of from the green building aspect, but more from the creative artistic with that kind of vision. Is that now something that is combined 

together where one can be creative in the looks? Maybe, Ms. 

Maxman, not being familiar with these buildings, but knowing—if 

could you envision in your mind—you probably can’t because these 

buildings are very unique. 

Ms.MCGREW. I think those are the two most photographed buildings on campus. And I am glad you brought that up, because early 

on when the campus set about to change its image, those two buildings were—the green initiative was not big on campus, so those 

two buildings did not have the same set of criteria by which they 

were judged as the last buildings and our current medical center 

on our academic health campus. So you are correct that those two 

buildings—that was not part of the criteria by which they were 

judged. 

Ms.MAXMAN. But I think what happens in architecture is we 

have the star architects, and we have the star buildings, and we 

have these pieces of sculpture, and then we have buildings that are 

built for people. And I don’t think that they are exclusive of each 

other. I think many star architects, quote/unquote, are designing 

green buildings now. But I think that, you know, people who are 

truly green building designers are people who think about how people like those buildings, how they live in those spaces, and how to 

conserve as many resources as possible so they don’t do frivolous 

things. But you can still do, you know, a great work of art, and it 

can be a green building. 

Mr.CHABOT. That is what I was asking. 

Ms.MCGREW. And I think our more recent examples on campus, 

and this is not by any means a criticism of our more early examples, but our more recent examples are a little more holistic in 

their approach. 

38

Mr.CHABOT. Thank you very much. This was a very good panel. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you very much. We are all very 

grateful for your participation. We know some of you have traveled 

from across the country, and this has been a very interesting panel. 

And the bigger picture here is how can we reduce energy dependency in our country? And we all know that small businesses are the 

innovators, and they are the drivers of our economy. How can we 

come up with legislative solutions to the many problems that small 

businesses are facing in accessing capital and continue to do what 

they do best, and that is creating jobs for our economy. 

So I ask unanimous consent, Members have 5 legislative days to 

enter a statement into the record. 

ChairwomanVELA ́ ZQUEZ. And with that, we recess. 

[Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

39


36108.001
40


36108.002
41


36108.003
42


36108.004
43


36108.005
44


36108.006
45


36108.007
46


36108.008
47


36108.009
48


36108.010
49


36108.011
50


36108.012
51


36108.013
52


36108.014
53


36108.015
54


36108.016
55


36108.017
56


36108.018
57


36108.019
58


36108.020
59


36108.021
60


36108.022
61


36108.023
62


36108.024
63


36108.025
64


36108.026
65


36108.027
66


36108.028
67


36108.029
68


36108.030
69


36108.031
70


36108.032
71


36108.033
72


36108.034
73


36108.035
74


36108.036
75


36108.037
76


36108.038
77


36108.039
78


36108.040
79


36108.041
80


36108.042
81


36108.043
82

Æ


36108.044