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39–374 PDF 2007

FULL COMMITTEE MARKUP OF HR. 3866, THE

SMALL BUSINESS PROGRAMS ACT OF 2007 and

H.R. 3867, THE SMALL BUSINESS

CONTRACTING PROGRAM IMPROVEMENTS ACT

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

OCTOBER 18, 2007

Serial Number 110-53

Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

CHARLIE GONZA ́ LEZ, Texas 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

HENRY CUELLAR, Texas 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

BRUCE BRALEY, Iowa 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

MAZIE HIRONO, Hawaii 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

DEAN HELLER, Nevada 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio 

MICHAEL DAY, Majority Staff Director 

ADAM MINEHARDT, Deputy Staff Director 

TIM SLATTERY, Chief Counsel 

KEVIN FITZPATRICK, Minority Staff Director

STANDING SUBCOMMITTEES 

Subcommittee on Finance and Tax 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois, Chairwoman

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

DEAN HELLER, Nevada, Ranking 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio

Subcommittee on Contracting and Technology

BRUCE BRALEY, IOWA, Chairman 

HENRY CUELLAR, Texas 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma

(II) 

Subcommittee on Regulations, Health Care and Trade

CHARLES GONZA ́ LEZ, Texas, Chairman 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia, Ranking 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio

Subcommittee on Urban and Rural Entrepreneurship

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina, Chairman 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

DEAN HELLER, Nevada 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee

Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight

JASON ALTMIRE, PENNSYLVANIA, Chairman 

CHARLIE GONZA ́ LEZ, Texas 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas, Ranking 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 1

Chabot, Hon. Steve .................................................................................................. 2

Braley, Hon. Bruce .................................................................................................. 7

Fallin, Hon. Mary .................................................................................................... 7

APPENDIX 

Prepared Statements: 

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 21

Chabot, Hon. Steve .................................................................................................. 24

Braley, Hon. Bruce .................................................................................................. 25

(V) 

(1)

FULL COMMITTEE MARKUP OF HR. 3866, THE 

SMALL BUSINESS PROGRAMS ACT OF 2007 

and 

H.R. 3867, THE SMALL BUSINESS 

CONTRACTING PROGRAM IMPROVEMENTS 

ACT 

Thursday, October 18, 2007

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room 

2360 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Nydia Vela ́zquez 

[Chairwoman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Vela ́zquez, Shuler, Gonza ́lez, Larsen, 

Grijalva, Bean, Cuellar, Lipinski, Moore, Altmire, Braley, Clarke, 

Ellsworth, Johnson, Sestak, Hirono, Higgins, Chabot, Bartlett, 

Graves, Akin, Musgrave, Davis, Fallin, Buchanan and Jordan. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRWOMAN VELA ́ ZQUEZ 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I am pleased to call this markup to order. In today’s markup, the 

committee will consider two pieces of legislation. These two bills 

are the remaining pieces in the effort to update and modernize the 

programs operated by the Small Business Administration. 

With these changes, the committee seeks to ensure that we are 

meeting the needs of our changing economy. Small businesses face 

many challenges in running a successful company. They are competing in a global economy where they are also faced with rising 

energy and health care costs. 

Over the last 50 years, the SBA has helped millions of entrepreneurs overcome these types of obstacles. 

The first bill that the committee will consider provides the SBA 

with the necessary funding to continue helping small businesses 

grow. This legislation expresses the intent of the committee that 

these programs need adequate resources to effectively meet the 

needs and demands of small firms. 

Our second bill will modernize and update the SBA’s small business contracting programs. For many years, small business owners 

have expressed concern that these are not working and changes 

need to come from Congress. 

2

The data on federal contracting shows that these entrepreneurs 

are correct. It is my hope that the contracting legislation we move 

forward today will address some of the shortcomings. 

Before we move to the consideration of these bills, I would like 

to yield to the ranking member, Mr. Chabot, for any opening remarks that he may have. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF MR. CHABOT 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I’m going 

to, in my opening statement, just address both the bills that we 

have before us here today, and we are marking up the Small Business Contracting Improvements Act and the Small Business Programs Act of 2007 as you had indicated, the last pieces in the reauthorization puzzle. 

The Chairwoman set an aggressive schedule for the committee to 

consider a complete reexamination of the Small Business Act and 

the Small Business Investment Act of 1958. 

Despite this crowded schedule of hearings and markups, the 

Chairwoman and her staff I believe worked diligently to operate as 

much as possible in a bipartisan manner. 

Her efforts and those of her staff have resulted in 14 bills being 

reported out by this committee, and all of them passing in the 

House with overwhelming margins. 

The work of this committee has shown that despite fundamental 

differences, we can work together to help small businesses, and I 

think we would agree that is the goal of all the members of this 

committee. Even when there is a failure to agree, the disagreements, for the most part, are not dripping in rancor. The Chairwoman has recognized that there will be times when our fundamental philosophies will prohibit agreement. Today is one of those 

occasions. 

I, for example, cannot support the Small Business Contracting 

Improvements Act of 2007, although there are some things in the 

bill which I strongly support. For example, the bill helps America’s 

veterans. There are other provisions in the bill that just make it 

problematic and therefore I can’t, in good conscience, support this 

particular bill. 

Instead of, you know, pitting various small business owners 

against each other, we should expand procurement opportunities 

for all small businesses on an equal basis. 

I do want to thank the Chairwoman for working with Congresswoman Fallin to include in the bill I think an important part of 

this, which is in the bill at this time, and I want to thank her for 

doing that, and I want to thank Congresswoman Fallin for this. I 

know she’s been like a pit bull on this, to get this done. She’s spoken to me, and I think the Chairwoman , many times on this, to 

make this happen. So I want to commend her for her hard work 

and I want to commend the Chairwoman for working with her in 

improving this bill. I think that is one of the good things in the bill. 

The other bill that we’re considering today, the Small Business 

Programs Act of 2007, is a highly technical bill but one of the committee’s legislative obligations. 

The financing programs in the Small Business Act, and Small 

Business Investment Act of 1958, rely on guarantees of repayment 

3

issued by the SBA. Congress must impose limits on that authority. 

Now this bill adopts limits on that authority, such that the SBA 

will not have to impose programmatic restrictions as a result of unexpected demand for these programs. 

I want to point out that supporting these limits will have no 

budgetary impact. In addition, the committee must provide authorization levels for the Small Business Development Center Program. 

The allocation of funds to various centers is based, in part, on a 

comparison of funds appropriated to funds authorized. Without an 

authorization level, the funding formula cannot work. The other 

authorization levels in the bill are simply the committee’s recommendations to the appropriators on what the authorizing committee believes is the most appropriate allocation of resources 

among the various SBA programs. 

Before yielding back, I again want to thank the Chairwoman for 

her efforts this year. It’s been a packed year for Members and 

staffs. As we move away from the reauthorization project, I look 

forward to working with the Chairwoman on, among other things, 

improving the procurement process for small businesses, examining 

ways to make the tax code beneficial to small business economic 

growth, and after all, small businesses are the driving force in this 

economy,most of the jobs created nowadays are in the small business sector, so that’s very important, and reducing unnecessary 

regulations on small business. 

And again I want to thank the Chairwoman for working with the 

minority on the committee, time and time again on this committee, 

and I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Ranking Member Chabot, 

and it has really been a pleasure working with you and your staff, 

and I think that if there has been a message, the strong message 

that we have sent to America is that yes, in Congress we can do, 

we can work, and we can allow for the deliberation of different 

ideas to be discussed, and that this is a committee where we have 

to show that we leave the ideology at the door and do what is best 

for American businesses, and that is to provide the tools that they 

need in order to flourish. 

And I think that even despite our philosophical disagreements, 

that we have shown respect to each other, and for the flows of 

ideas, and input coming from both sides of the aisle. 

With that, let’s go to the first bill that the committee will consider, is the Small Business Program Act of 2007. 

This legislation establishes the funding levels for the entrepreneurial assistance initiative for the next two years. It also provides 

for the necessary authority for the SBA to carry out its lending and 

venture capital programs. 

At a hearing with stakeholders three weeks ago, it became clear 

that the SBA and its partners have played a vital role in assisting 

small businesses across this country. 

The wide network of SBDCs, Women Business Centers, and 

SCORE, have done their best to meet the rising demand for services at a time when their budgets are being trimmed. 

Despite these programs track record of success, they must be 

able to evolve and modernize. In the new economy, these entrepreneurial initiatives must provide technical expertise on new issues, 

4

ranging from exporting to online sales, to identifying different avenues of capital. 

These type of assistance cannot occur without the proper resources. The legislation under consideration will ensure that every 

entrepreneur in America has access to the technical assistance they 

deserve. Rural and urban areas will have centers that can provide 

the support for small business owners who have the drive but need 

help with a business plan. 

The authorization bill also establishes the necessary loan levels 

for these programs. The SBA lending and venture capital programs 

have a proven track record of providing capital to successful businesses. 

There is not a community that has not seen some benefit from 

the financing in the form of SBA loans and venture capital. 

The SBA’s partner-lenders have been able to provide access to 

capital in a time when there is a concern about the availability of 

credit. Increasing the loan levels for the 7(a) and 504 lending programs will come and not cause, and will prevent the situation of 

2004, when there was a program shutdown. 

When one talks about pro business policies, one part of the equation is providing the tools for success. As conservative columnist 

Cal Thomas wrote, when discussing legislation passed out of this 

committee earlier this year, these programs help individuals who 

help themselves. This legislation is a step forward in allowing the 

SBA and its partners to meet the rising demand for services and 

capital. 

Just as small businesses need to adjust to changing business conditions, so do the stakeholders in assisting entrepreneurs create 

jobs. This legislation will provide the tools to do and to achieve 

that. 

I urge support of the legislation and I will now yield to Mr. 

Chabot for any comments he may have. 

Mr. CHABOT. I thank the gentlelady for yielding. The comments 

that I had on this particular bill I already made in my opening 

statement, so I will have no further comments. We do support this 

bill and would encourage our members to support this. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Are there any other Members that 

wish to be recognized on the legislation? 

The committee now moves to consideration of the bill, H.R. 3866, 

the Small Business Programs Act of 2007. The Clerk will report the 

title of the bill. 

The CLERK. H.R. 3866, a bill to reauthorize certain programs 

under the Small Business Act for each of fiscal years 2008 and 

2009. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I ask unanimous consent that the bill, 

in its entirety, be open for amendments at this time. Does any 

Member seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? 

Seeing no amendments, the question is on passing and reporting 

the bill, H.R., 3866. 

All those in favor say aye. 

[Chorus of ayes] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. All those opposed, no. 

The ayes have it, and H.R. 3866 is adopted and ordered reported. 

5

The committee now will consider the second bill, the Small Business Contracting Programs Improvement Act that modernizes the 

SBA contracting initiatives. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. This is an important bill and one that 

is long overdue. Primarily, it has two main missions. To update the 

SBA contracting programs and to ensure that taxpayer dollars are 

protected. 

The act makes critical changes that will open up new opportunity 

for small businesses. It will serve to spur entrepreneurial activity 

across a wide spectrum of industry and lead to a more competitive 

procurement marketplace, and, ultimately, a better value for our 

taxpayers. 

This legislation has bipartisan support within this committee 

and includes the input from a number of Members. 

I would like to give special thanks to Congresswoman Fallin, an 

original co-sponsor of the act, for her leadership on this bill. 

The legislation will assist veterans, entrepreneurs, including 

those that are service-disabled. When the men and women serving 

our Nation in Iraq and Afghanistan return home, many hope to 

start a small business. This can be especially true for those injured 

veterans recovering at medical facilities such as Walter Reed. 

Our hope is that this bill will provide the tools to start a new 

endeavor and begin a new life. To do this, we propose placing veteran small business owners at the top of the list for receiving federal contracts. 

This will eliminate the barriers that veterans face in receiving 

noncompetitive contracts. We are also requiring the SBA fulfill its 

obligation under executive order 13360, which will give veterans 

access to procurement assistance. 

It is important that we act on this legislation, so that all veterans can become, if they so choose, successful entrepreneurs. The 

8(a) program has not been modernized in 20 years, and we will be 

making minimal but important steps to allow it to operate in the 

current business environment. 

For most, the net worth standard is increased to a level consistent with inflation. This change will ensure that we do not penalize companies for success, and then wonder why they fail when 

they leave the program. 

These provisions, while seemingly technical and without cost, 

will help make a great difference for program participants. 

Similarly, the SBA has taken too much time to implement the 

women’s procurement program. This bill will provide agencies with 

sufficient information to immediately begin competing contracts 

among women business owners. Women entrepreneurs have been 

waiting nearly seven years. They have lost tens of billions of dollars in contracting opportunities and they will not have to wait any 

longer. 

To combat fraud and taxpayers waste, the legislation takes several steps. Safeguards and business integrity standards are incorporated, that will make sure criminals are not squandering taxpayers dollars. To better promote self-policing, any small business 

can challenge an individual program award. 

Further steps are taken to require on-site reviews by SBA personnel to verify eligibility for the HUB Zone Program prior to a 

6

contract award. This provision requires certification only once before a second contract award. 

This is a common sense approach and is sorely needed, as SBA 

has been aware of programs in this area for at least four years. 

The legislation also takes steps to extend the Rise SBA contracting programs. All procurement initiatives will have both prime 

and subcontracting goals. Each program that has noncompetitive 

contracts as benefit will have the same threshold, increased and indexed for inflation. 

This will ensure contractors, including service-disabled veterans, 

have access to higher dollar contracts. 

Finally, the legislation will assist small businesses in the temporary staffing industry. I would like to thank Representative 

Fallin for continuing to work with the committee and her leadership on this important issue. 

Together, these changes bring SBA contracting initiatives into 

the 21st Century, by raising the profile of veteran entrepreneurs 

and rooting out fraud and taxpayers waste in SBA contracting programs. 

There is remarkably broad support on this leg ranging from the 

National Black Chamber of Commerce to the National Federation 

of Independent Business, and the Associated General Contractors 

of America. 

Also supporting the legislation are the American Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and AMVETS, the United States Hispanic 

Chamber of Commerce, the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce, 

and the National Defense Industrial Association, also support this 

bill. 

Again I would like to thank Ranking Member Chabot and his 

staff for working with us on these challenging issues. 

While we do not see eye to eye on all these changes, I believe 

that this legislation has benefited from your input and counsel 

along the way. I hope that we can work through our differences of 

this legislation as we move forward, and now I would yield to Mr. 

Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair. I made most of my 

points in my opening statement originally. We just have some philosophical differences which I have already expressed somewhat. So 

rather than take up the time, I know we have votes on the floor, 

and a couple other Members I think want to make opening statements, I will just yield back. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Are there any other Members who wish 

to make an opening statement? 

Ms. FALLIN. Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. Ms. Fallin, we have like two minutes now. We can come back. We are going to recess and then come 

back right after the vote. 

Ms. FALLIN. Whichever you would like to do. Mine is brief. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Let’s recess, and then when we come 

back, I will give you an opportunity to make an opening statement. 

[Recess.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The committee is called to order. Are 

there any other Members that wish to be recognized on this legislation? 

7

Mr. Braley 

Mr. BRALEY. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman . 

OPENING STATEMENT OF MR. BRALEY 

I will not make my complete opening statement which I have 

submitted for the record, but I would just like to point out the importance of the Small Business Contracting Improvement Act, in 

conjunction with the bill we earlier reported out of this committee, 

the Small Business Fairness In Contracting Act, which passed on 

the House Floor on May 10th by an overwhelming bipartisan vote 

of 409 to 13, which raised the small business federal contracting 

goal from 23 percent to 30 percent. 

This means that all of the programs included in the Small Business Contracting Improvements Act will have greater opportunities 

to compete for federal contracts, and that’s why I support the bill. 

I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. Are there any other Members that wish to be recognized on this legislation? 

Ms. FALLIN. Madam Chair, I would like to be recognized. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Ms. Fallin is recognized for five minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF MS. FALLIN 

Ms. FALLIN. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I would like to just 

first of all, thank you and your staff for the opportunity to work 

with you on this legislation and to address some issues that are important to the small business owners of my state, and will actually 

affect small business owners across our Nation as it deals with 

Federal Government contracting. 

And I would also like to thank our Ranking Member, Mr. 

Chabot, who has had many conversations over the past month, and 

his staff, especially Barry, for working with me on some language 

that, as I said, has been important to some companies in my state, 

and will affect many businesses throughout our Nation, and thank 

you so much. And I have deep respect for our Ranking Member and 

appreciate his interest in helping me with my particular concern. 

I am also very pleased that we are having this markup today as 

it will update many important small business programs, including 

service for the disabled veterans and the HUB Zone programs. 

Small business programs such as these go a long ways towards 

helping our struggling small business owners succeed as well as 

fostering real long-term economic growth in our communities and 

helping to create jobs. 

i want to thank both, as I said, the majority and the minority 

staff on our Small Business Committee, who have worked with me 

in helping to craft language in this bill, and your willingness to 

help me to resolve some difficult issues that affect my district, and 

Madam Chair, I just urge my colleagues for their support of this 

bill. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Are there any other Members that 

wish to be recognized on the legislation? 

The committee now moves to consideration of the bill, H.R. 3867, 

the Small Business Contracting Program Improvements Act. 

The Clerk will report the title of the bill. 

8

The CLERK. H.R. 3867, a bill to update and expand the procurement programs of the Small Business Administration, and for other 

purposes. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I ask unanimous consent that the bill, 

in its entirety, be open for amendments at this time. 

Does any Member seek recognition for the purpose of offering an 

amendment? 

The gentleman is recognized. 

Mr. AKIN. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I come with—

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Does the gentleman have an amendment? 

Mr. AKIN. Yes, I have an amendment, and it’s—let’s see—it just 

says Section 501 amendment. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. The Clerk will report the amendment. 

The CLERK. Amendment offered by Mr. Akin of Missouri, to 

strike Section 501. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I ask unanimous consent that the 

amendment be considered as read. Without objection, so ordered. 

The gentleman is recognized for five minutes on your amendment. 

Mr. AKIN. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

It is a little bit of an odd situation I find myself in, Madam 

Chair. This amendment is not one that, actually, the way it is 

drafted, I would particularly support. The way the bill is drafted, 

I don’t support that either, and let me explain the concern that I 

have and would just ask maybe we could work on this problem together. 

The concern I have is that you have a certain number of these 

different contracts in the 8(a) program, and there is competition for 

the various businesses that want to get those contracts, and the 

way the bill was set up originally, there is a limitation of $250,000 

that would be—that if you have more than that, then you are not 

economically disadvantaged. 

Now that 250,000 hasn’t changed in 30 years, and so in that regard, I think that it is important that we update it, and so I agree 

with the bill and my amendment basically takes it back to where 

it currently is, at 250,000. 

It seems to me, Madam Chair, that there is a little bit of a tension here, and that is, if you increase the number of people who 

can apply for the 8(a) programs, and you have a limited number 

of those contracts already, what is going to happen is that it is 

going to be harder and harder for people to get those, and a lot of 

larger businesses that are much more stable, that don’t have to 

have them, may get different grants that the smaller businesses 

cannot get. 

So what my suggestion would be, to try to work up a mechanism 

of a sliding scale, so as the business becomes stronger, it has more 

assets in the business, the owner of the business becomes stronger 

economically, that they are limited to the number of these contracts they can get, and it’s a sliding scale. So the poorer businesses, the ones that are just starting, can get as many as they can 

9

get, whereas as the business gets bigger, we reduce the number of 

those 8(a) programs that we could do. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Is the gentleman—

Unknown Speaker: Yes. 

Mr. AKIN. So—

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. 

Mr. AKIN. So, in other words, my concern is this could go the way 

we did the same kind a thing with blighted land some years ago. 

We said well, if you are in an inner city, some of the land can be 

blighted and therefore the local government can set it up for eminent domain and this land—well, what happened is we got land 

out in our area that is going for a couple million bucks an acre and 

it is blighted. An awful lot of us wish we had some of that blighted 

land too but the program has expanded way beyond what it was 

originally intended to do. 

My concern is if we go in this trajectory, we expand 8(a) in the 

same way, and it loses its effectiveness in helping the smallest 

businesses. 

So I don’t have the mechanism to how to create that sliding scale 

but that’s what I would just, would ask the Chairwoman , if she 

would work with us, at least see if there’s a practical way to do 

that. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. I would like to work with the gentleman before we report, bring this legislation to the Floor. I want 

for the record to reflect some of the comments that I have on your 

amendment, and this is very important because what your amendment does, it strikes the language in the bill that modifies the net 

work limitation for the SBA’s 8(a) program. 

And the language in the bill provides an inflationary adjustment 

and removes a burdensome restriction that this committee, under 

Republican leadership, eliminated for other SBA programs. 

Even though the economy has changed dramatically, the net 

work limitation on business owners has not been increased since 

1988. Then a gallon of gas was 91 cents. Now it is $2.76. The average price of a new home was $89,300. Now it is nearly triple that. 

In 1988, a Ford F150 truck was around $13,000. In 2007 is at 

least $30,000. Basically, Mr. Akin wants minority businesses to operate under the economic and financial structure of 1988, when, in 

fact, today’s economy bears little resemblance to it. 

We need to give businesses the tools they need, and Mr. Akin’s 

amendment simply takes them away. His amendment will penalize 

companies for success. We want companies to grow, to borrow more 

money, to get stronger and to hire more employees. But if this 

amendment is adopted, we prevent these businesses from doing so 

and we are simply setting them to fail. 

What we need in this legislation is what the SBA administrator 

included in his testimony. The administrator stated that adjusted 

for inflation, the net work should be $550,000, and that is what we 

have done in this bill. 

We have merely adjusted the 8(a) net worth at the program’s 

entry point to $550,000, consistent with increases inflation. You 

probably never thought you will hear me say this, but even the previous chairman thought this type of standard should be changed. 

10

In 2003, when the Republicans controlled this committee, we 

unanimously passed legislation that lifted the net worth cap on the 

HUB Zone Program. 

The gentleman from Missouri was on this committee then and 

did not object. Why, in 2003, did the gentleman from Missouri support lifting the restriction completely but today he’s concerned with 

a much more measured move. 

In the committee report from 2003, the Republican chairman 

stated that, and I quote: ‘‘Success is penalized due to a finding that 

the program participant is no longer economically disadvantaged. 

Thus the only businesses that remain in the program are those 

that are not very successful. In the committee’s view, this single 

change will dramatically improve the success rate of the program.’’

That was what the chairman said then, it was true then, and it 

is true today. 

For the very same reasons that existed in 2003, we should be allowing these firms to operate in the same way that other small 

businesses are able to. 

No other small business program has the type of stringent requirement. None of the companies, no service-disabled veterans, no 

women procurement program. If we want businesses to be successful, we need to update this program, and for that reason I object 

and I oppose this amendment. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. I recognize the gentleman. 

Mr. BARTLETT. It is kind of interesting. If you have a personal net worth of $550,000, plus the kind of a home that would go with 

that, plus the assets of your business, you are a millionaire. And 

it is kind of interesting. That speaks, I think, to an enormous devaluation of the dollar, that we now have millionaires who are disadvantaged. It is just a comment on our time, I think. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Would the gentleman yield. Yes. Would 

the gentleman yield. This is the only program to have a net worth. 

We don’t require for the HUB Zone and we don’t require for service-disabled veterans. We require it for the 8(a) program. 

What the SBA administrator stated here, when he came before 

this committee and testified, said that it should be adjusted for inflationary indexes, and that is exactly what we are doing. What we 

are doing is minimum changes to the restriction. 

Mr. BARTLETT. I think that is true but it is just interesting that 

we now are defining a millionaire who is disadvantaged, who needs 

special treatment in the marketplace. Interesting, isn’t it? 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Akin. 

Mr. AKIN. Madam Chair, as I said in my opening comment, I am 

not really kicking about the change from 250 to 550. My concern 

is more of a mathematical one, and that is that people qualify for 

this all the way up to a certain point, and then they mathematically just fall off a cliff, and now you don’t qualify. And it seems 

like to me what we want to do is to take the weakest and the 

smallest and the beginning companies, give them the maximum 

benefit, and then as the companies grow and the people prosper, 

the assets of the organization get bigger, that what we want to do 

is to wean them off of these contracts on a gradual basis where 

they can be competitive in all kinds of other contracts. 

11

So I am really asking, instead of just having a square corner or 

a cliff where you fall off, I am just talking about trying to set it 

up as a sliding scale, because what is going to happen is every time 

somebody gets to the edge of the cliff, they are going to be back 

here saying we will just bump it up a little bit more instead of if 

we just sort of taper off the number of contracts that they can—

as they get bigger and stronger, we just drop the number that they 

are eligible for. 

And I don’t know if we can do that practically, but Madam Chair, 

I would withdraw the amendment. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. And as I offered to you, we will work 

before we go to the Floor. 

Mr. CHABOT. Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CHABOT. I will be very brief, and in light of the fact that the 

gentleman from Missouri has already withdrawn the amendment, 

there is no sense to go into great detail, but I would just note for 

the record that when the chair mentions the previous statement by 

the previous chair, the chair is not talking about this Ranking 

Member. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Oh. You know that I love you. 

Mr. CHABOT. I am not going to touch that. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. You are already blushing, so we know. 

So, without objection, your amendment is withdrawn. 

Are there any other amendments to the bill? 

Mr. Bartlett. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair, I have an amendment at the desk 

relative to Section 101.

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The Clerk will report the amendment. 

The CLERK. Offered by Mr. Bartlett of Maryland to in Section 

101, strike subsection B. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I ask unanimous consent that the 

amendment be considered as read. Without objection, so ordered. 

The gentleman is recognized for five minutes on his amendment. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Okay. Well, the amendment is very simple. It 

simply says strike subsection B in Section 101. Madam Chair, this 

gets down to a single word, which is what this subsection is about. 

If you look at our agencies, which all have goals for a number 

of different small business groups, the group that probably has the 

most difficulty of reaching the goal is the Hub Zone group, and one 

of the requirements is that where there are two HUB Zone companies that could perform, then that contract has to be competed between these two HUB Zones. 

The bill which is before us, subsection B, what it really does is 

to strike the word ‘‘shall‘‘ and change it to ‘‘may.‘‘ What this would 

do is to permit a contracting officer who is used to dealing with Joe 

and some other small business category, to just ignore the fact that 

there are two Hub Zones there, which I think is the small business 

category which has the most trouble of meeting the goals, that he 

could just ignore the fact that it could be competed because the legislation would say may rather than shall. 

12

I think and I think most Americans agree that the quality and 

the quantity of the performance of a contract goes up when you 

have competition. 

I just think that this moves us in the wrong direction, in two 

ways. One, it denies the benefits that the taxpayer gets from competition and two, it makes it more difficult to meet our goals for 

the Hub Zone category. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I rise in opposition to this amendment. 

This amendment strikes the language in the bill that makes the 

Hub Zone Program a discretionary program rather than a mandatory one. 

What we are doing today is giving the agencies discretion by 

changing to ‘‘may‘‘ rather than ‘‘shall.‘‘ But also I just want for my 

Members here to know that this amendment will disrupt the carefully crafted underlying agreement that we have reached. 

This agreement has a more diverse group of supporters than any 

piece of legislation this committee has acted upon. 

Currently supporters include the Associated General Contractors, 

the National Federation of Independent Business, the American 

Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, AMVETS, the National 

Black Chamber of Commerce, the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce, the Aerospace Industry Association, and the National Defense Industrial Association. 

This amendment will also give the highest contracting standard 

for competitive contracts to the HUB Zone Program, a program 

that the Small Business Administration Inspector General has 

raised serious concern about. Congress must be mindful of providing contracting priorities over other small business when the 

beneficiaries of those preferences are likely not eligible for them. 

In fact the American Legion sent a letter, and I want to read. 

‘‘We steadfastly oppose any amendments to alter these legislation 

provisions that assist veterans-owned businesses in Section 101.’’

With that, I ask my colleagues to defeat this amendment. 

Does any other Member seek recognition? 

Yes—

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair, I would just like to note that your 

comments made my point, and that is it gives discretion to the contracting officer to award sole source, avoiding the benefits that accrue to the taxpayer by competition. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Altmire is recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. ALTMIRE. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I know that my 

friend from Maryland is well-meaning in this amendment but a 

consequence, probably unintended of this, is the amendment is 

going to strike the portion of the bill that gives priority to veterans 

that receive contracts, and anyone who has worked with me on this 

committee knows what a priority I place on giving veterans increased access to small business programs, and with Federal Government providing less than 1 percent of contracts to service-disabled veterans, this provision is necessary to ensure that veterans 

are continually made a priority. 

As our veteran population grows, it is vital for the Federal Government to improve the environment for veteran entrepreneurs by 

providing them with contracting opportunities. This amendment 

13

does the exact opposite. The amendment that has been offered 

would negatively impact the ability for these veteran-owned businesses to get contracts, and I know this because I have been contacted by the American Legion, the VFW, and AMVETS, all of 

which oppose this amendment and support the bill as is. 

I yield back my time. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair, I would just like to note that I am 

one of the strongest supporters of veterans in the Congress. I serve 

on the Armed Services Committee. I am informed that this does 

not change the veterans preference and in no way diminishes their 

opportunities for contracting. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I will invite the gentleman to read the 

letter that I was sent by the American Legion and the other veteran’s group. They support, strongly, Section 101, and they really 

oppose any alteration to—

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair, I suspect that they have erroneously been led to believe that my amendment would change their 

priorities and I am told it does not. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I believe that they can read, I believe 

they can read English, and they understand the agreement that 

has been reached, where we are going to have the 8(a), and the veterans, disabled service veterans, and then as a preference program, 

any other programs. 

Any other Member who seeks recognition on the amendment? 

Ms. MOORE. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I just want to point out that currently, we are not even providing 

1 percent of the contracts to service-disabled veterans, and so I 

think that an amendment that would even suggest that we not give 

priority to veterans would have a chilling impact, given our egregious, abysmal record on providing access to the program for veterans now. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Any other Member who seeks recognition on this amendment? 

The committee now—the question is on the amendment. All 

those in favor say aye. 

All those against say no. 

The noes have it. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair, I would just like to note that I do 

not believe that my amendment—I think that I should have to 

verify that, and I would like, rather than delay the recorded vote, 

I would like a show of hands so the record will show what the vote 

was. Just have a show of hands... 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Do you want a vote on this amendment? 

Mr. BARTLETT. Show of hands. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. No. We will go for the roll call. Do you 

want a roll call? 

Mr. BARTLETT. What I would like is for the record to show that 

Roscoe Bartlett did not capitulate without a fight. 

[Laughter] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Let’s have a roll call. 

The Clerk will call the vote. 

The CLERK. Ms. Vela ́zquez. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. No. 

14

The CLERK. Ms. Vela ́zquez votes no. 

Mr. Shuler. 

Mr. SHULER. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Shuler votes no. 

Mr. Gonza ́lez. 

Mr. GONZA ́LEZ. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Gonza ́lez votes no. 

Mr. Larson. 

Mr. LARSON. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Larson votes no. 

Mr. Grijalva. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Grijalva votes no. 

Mr. Michaud. 

Ms. Bean. 

Ms. BEAN. No. 

The CLERK. Ms. Bean votes no. 

Mr. Cuellar. 

Mr. CUELLAR. No. Chairwoman . 

The CLERK. Mr. Cuellar votes no. 

Mr. Lipinski. 

Mr. LIPINSKI. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Lipinski votes no. 

Ms. Moore. 

Ms. MOORE. No. 

The CLERK. Ms. Moore votes no. 

Mr. Altmire. 

Mr. ALTMIRE. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Altmire votes no. 

Mr. Braley. 

Ms. Clarke. 

Ms. CLARKE. No. 

The CLERK. Ms. Clarke votes no. 

Mr. Ellsworth. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. No. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Ellsworth votes no. 

Mr. Johnson. 

Mr. JOHNSON. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Johnson votes no. 

Mr. Sestak. 

Mr. SESTAK. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Sestak votes no. 

Ms. Hirono. 

Ms. HIRONO. No. 

The CLERK. Ms. Hirono votes no. 

Mr. Higgins. 

Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Yes. 

The CLERK. Mr. Chabot votes yes. 

Mr. Bartlett. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Yes. 

The CLERK. Mr. Bartlett votes yes. 

Mr. Graves. 

Mr. GRAVES. Yes. 

15

The CLERK. Mr. Graves votes yes. 

Mr. Akin. 

Mr. Shuster. 

Ms. Musgrave. 

Ms. MUSGRAVE. Yes. 

The CLERK. Ms. Musgrave votes yes. 

Mr. King.

Mr. Fortenberry.

Mr. Westmoreland.

Mr. Gohmert.

Mr. Heller.

Mr. Davis. 

Mr. DAVIS. Yes. 

The CLERK. Mr. Davis votes yes. 

Ms. Fallin. 

Ms. FALLIN. Yes. 

The CLERK. Ms. Fallin votes yes. 

Mr. Buchanan. 

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes. 

The CLERK. Mr. Buchanan votes yes. 

Mr. Jordan. 

Mr. JORDAN. Yes. 

The CLERK. Mr. Jordan votes yes. 

Mr. Braley. 

Mr. BRALEY. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Braley votes no. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Are there any other Member who has 

not been recorded? 

The Clerk will report the vote. 

The CLERK. The vote is 16 noes, eight yeas. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The notes have it and the amendment 

has been defeated. 

Mr. CHABOT. Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. 

Mr. CHABOT. I ask unanimous consent to speak out of order for 

just a moment. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. Again, in the interest of not dragging 

this out any longer than is necessary, I’m only going to speak when 

I think it is particularly necessary, and I think Mr. Bartlett’s 

amendment, for those who voted yes, I just want to reiterate the 

point of view of those Members, that we still consider that veterans 

would still get sole source authority under 101(a). I know there is 

some dispute about that and some groups that believe that that’s 

not accurate. 

But I think there is no one, as Mr. Bartlett said, who I think defends veterans on a daily basis than Mr. Bartlett, and I think those 

of us who agree with him agree on that. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Would the gentleman yield. Would the 

gentleman yield. 

Mr. CHABOT. I would be happy to yield. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Well, two things. For once, the number 

don’t lie. Veterans have gotten less than 1 percent in contracting 

opportunities with the Federal Government. Two, we held the hearVerDate 0ct 09 2002 18:04 Jan 22, 2008 Jkt 033615 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\39374.TXT LEANN
16

ings and veteran groups were here. They strongly supported it and 

they explained the obstacle that they had been facing in trying to 

access the federal marketplace and that is why we are striking this 

balance today. 

Mr. CHABOT. And again, reclaiming my time, I appreciate the 

Chairwoman ’s comments, but still, I just want to make the point 

that I think those of us that voted in the way that we did are doing 

the best we can to look out for veterans and we think the minority 

is as well. There is just a difference of opinion here and I would 

yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. Yes, sir. The gentleman is 

recognized. 

Mr. SESTAK. If I just might say, having testified as part of the 

military before Mr. Bartlett, and having numerous conversations 

when I was there before him, and now having worked on the House 

Armed Services Committee, there is no one who has been in stronger support of our military, our veterans, and I understand the difference of opinion here but I needed to say that. 

But I am glad this one passed, because if I might, just one moment, back in World War II, 182 days, on average, every soldier 

spent in combat. In this war, our soldiers over there in Iraq spend 

every day in combat for 15 months. So we are going to see more 

disabled come back, particularly with PTSD, and I know you support that. It is just a difference of opinion, but since I am on the 

other side of this debate on facts, but I do know you support it. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Would the gentleman yield. Would the 

gentleman yield. 

Mr. SESTAK. Yield. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. It is clear to this committee and this 

Chairwoman , that we are not questioning here your support to 

veterans. But what we are questioning here is the ability of veterans to be able to access the federal marketplace, and that is what 

we are doing. 

In the interest of moving this along, since we are going to have 

a vote coming up, are there any other Members who seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? 

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Bartlett. 

Mr. BARTLETT. I have an amendment at the desk on Section 201, 

which I will withdraw, if you can convince me that in fact we need 

the amendment. I mean we need the bill. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The Clerk will report the amendment. 

The CLERK. Amendment offered by Mr. Bartlett of Maryland to 

strike Section 201. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I ask unanimous consent that the 

amendment be considered as read. Without objection, so ordered. 

The gentleman is recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much and I will be very brief. 

The amendment is very simple. It says simple strike Section 201. 

What Section 201 does is require a background check, a business 

integrity check for all small business programs. I believe that the 

FAR 9.104 does exactly that, and if it does that, then why do we 

need this bill language? If you can convince me that FAR 109.4 

17

does not accomplish what this bill language accomplishes, then I 

will withdraw my amendment. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. It does it for other agencies but not for 

SBA program. We require background checks for other programs. 

We do not do it for this program. And you were here when the Inspector General of the SBA released a report on the Hub Zone programs, on fraud and waste, and I think that all of us should be for 

protecting taxpayers money and against waste and fraud, and that 

is exactly what we are doing with this language. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Two things, Madam Chair. First of all, in nine 

years of the Hub Zone Program, there has been no prosecution, not 

one. There has been not one case referred for prosecution. There 

has been no investigation by an official government agency of any 

fraud. There have been a lot of ‘‘sour grapes‘‘ and allegations of 

fraud, but the three things that I stated are a fact. It is my understanding that our government contracting officers cannot award 

any contract without doing a business integrity check. Is that not 

true? 

And if that is true, then why do we need this bill language? 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Because we have it for other agencies. 

We don’t have it for the SBA programs, and that is what we are 

doing here. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Okay. What you are saying is that other agencies, 

in spite of the FAR, we have legislation that says—

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. They require—

Mr. BARTLETT. That require background checks. Okay. Because 

they are doing something dumb, that means we are going to do it 

too? 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Well, we have—

Mr. BARTLETT. I withdraw my amendment. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. The gentleman withdrew his 

amendment. 

Are there any other amendments? Does any other Member—

Mr. BARTLETT. Madam Chair, I have one additional amendment 

and I just—I will withdraw the amendment but I just want to 

make a point. In our bill we extend the 8(a) program from nine 

years to ten years. I just was reflecting on that. That is the amount 

of time that it takes from the time you graduate from high school 

to get a PhD from Carnegie Mellon. My son just did that. 

And, you know, if you can’t, in the time it takes to graduate from 

high school and get a degree from Carnegie Mellon in chemical engineering, you know, if you can’t be standing on your feet in nine 

years, I am not sure adding one more year is going to make much 

difference. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Let me just say, sir, that when it comes 

to the Hub Zone Program, it allows the company to be approved 

for three years at a time, indefinitely, as long as the business 

meets the basic eligibility requirements. Both service-disabled veterans and women entrepreneurs will be able to get contracts with 

the respective program’s benefit until they are no longer small. 

What we are saying is let’s extend—and you were part of all the 

hearings that were conducted here—to say nine years is not 

enough. It takes at least 18 months, once a company gets into the 

18

8(a) program, to learn the ‘‘nuts and bolts‘‘ of the federal marketplace. 

So it is not enough for these people to be able to grow their business within the nine years. What does it make—what a difference 

a year will make. You know, we should be in the business, this 

committee, to provide the tools that will enable all these businesses 

to expand and grow because they are the ones creating jobs in our 

country, and every witness who came before this committee testified that nine years was not enough. 

Mr. BARTLETT. The 8(a) program is obviously a very unique program. It is intended to provide sole source contracts to firms that 

couldn’t get a contract in the competitive world, and the original 

legislation thought that nine years was adequate time. 

I am just reflecting, Madam Chair, that when my young son was 

a high school senior, and he had nine years to go to college and get 

his five year doctorate, that, you know, that ought to be enough 

time for a business to mature if it is enough time for my kid to mature. I am not going to bring the amendment to a vote but I just 

don’t see any difference between 10 years and nine years. 

If we really want to make a difference, let’s make it 12 years. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Oh, if you want to do it, make an 

amendment. 

Mr. BARTLETT. I withdraw my amendment. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I ask unanimous consent to amend 

your amendment. 

Mr. BARTLETT. I object. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Sestak. 

Mr. SESTAK. My only comment on this was when this original bill 

was implemented, I mean some company was obviously in Philadelphia competing with someone in Arkansas. But the whole 

globalization of the world and the bill that we just recently passed 

to help small businesses with a new strategy to approach the export world, that they’re now competing with Shanghai, I think another year can help since the dynamics have truly changed in the 

competition that is out there, since it’s a vastly more globalized 

world than when this was originally instituted. Thank you. I yield 

back the balance of my time. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I am going to ask unanimous consent 

to withdraw his amendment. 

Any other Member wants to introduce an amendment, who seeks 

recognition for the purpose of an amendment? 

Seeing no further amendments, the question is on passing and 

reporting the bill, as amended, H.R. 3867. 

All those in favor say aye. Aye. 

All those opposed no. 

The ayes have it. 

On that I request a recorded vote and the Clerk will call the 

vote. 

The CLERK. Ms. Vela ́zquez. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Shuler. 

Mr. SHULER. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Shuler votes aye. 

Mr. Gonza ́lez. 

19

Mr. GONZA ́LEZ. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Gonza ́lez votes aye. 

Mr. Larsen. 

Mr. LARSEN. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Larsen votes aye. 

Mr. Grijalva. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Grijalva votes aye. 

Mr. Michaud.

Ms. Bean. 

Ms. BEAN. Aye. 

The CLERK. Ms. Bean votes aye. 

Mr. Cuellar. 

Mr. CUELLAR. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Cuellar votes aye. 

Mr. Lipinski. 

Mr. LIPINSKI. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Lipinski votes aye. 

Ms. Moore. 

Ms. MOORE. Aye. 

The CLERK. Ms. Moore votes aye. 

Mr. Altmire. 

Mr. ALTMIRE. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Altmire votes aye. 

Mr. Braley.

Ms. Clarke. 

Ms. CLARKE. Aye. 

The CLERK. Ms. Clarke votes aye. 

Mr. Ellsworth. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Ellsworth votes aye. 

Mr. Johnson. 

Mr. JOHNSON. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Johnson votes aye. 

Mr. Sestak. 

Mr. SESTAK. Aye. 

The CLERK. Ms. Sestak votes aye. 

Ms. Hirono. 

Ms. HIRONO. Aye. 

The CLERK. Ms. Hirono votes aye. 

Mr. Higgins. 

Mr. HIGGINS. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Higgins votes aye. 

Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Chabot votes no. 

Mr. Bartlett. 

Mr. BARTLETT. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Bartlett votes no. 

Mr. Graves. 

Mr. GRAVES. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Graves votes aye. 

Mr. Akin.

Mr. Shuster.

20

Ms. Musgrave. 

Ms. MUSGRAVE. No. 

The CLERK. Ms. Musgrave votes no. 

Mr. King.

Mr. Fortenberry.

Mr. Westmoreland.

Mr. Gohmert.

Mr. Heller.

Mr. Davis. 

Mr. DAVIS. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Davis votes aye. 

Ms. Fallin. 

Ms. FALLIN. Aye. 

The CLERK. Ms. Fallin votes aye. 

Mr. Buchanan. 

Mr. BUCHANAN. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Buchanan votes aye. 

Mr. Jordan. 

Mr. JORDAN. No. 

The CLERK. Mr. Jordan votes no. 

Mr. Braley. 

Mr. BRALEY. Aye. 

The CLERK. Mr. Braley votes aye. 

Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The Clerk will report the vote. 

The CLERK. With that, there are 21 yes and four no votes. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The ayes have it. H.R. 3867 is adopted 

and ordered reported as amended. Thank you. 

I ask unanimous consent that the committee be authorized to 

correct section numbers, punctuation, and cross-references and to 

be make all the necessary technical and confirming corrections on 

the bills considered today. 

Without objection, so ordered. This markup is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:28 a.m., the committee was adjourned, subject 

to the call of the chair.]

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