- 
    - about us
    - fish & wildlife
    - energy
    - news
    - reports
    - contact us
    -   
|   Fish and wildlifeArtificial ProductionArchive       Artificial Production Review Committee Meeting
**Thursday, June 8, 1998**  |  **document 98-12**

NWPPC Conference Room, Portland, Oregon

**MEETING SUMMARYMEETING REPORT**

**MEETING SUMMARY**

The Production Review Committee (PRC) reviewed the marching orders for     two recently hired consultants: Duane Neitzel of Battelle to prepare a     searchable database, and Bob Tuck of Eco-Northwest to conduct interviews and     gather information that may not be in written records. While the consultants     do those initial jobs, the committee decided it should clarify several     questions with the Science Review Team (SRT) and start talking about policy     issues associated with the Artificial Production Review. 

Next Meeting: July 13 in Portland, at 9:30 a.m.

**GETTING THE DATA ASSEMBLED**Consultant Roy Sampsel said the meeting would develop with the two     contractors the work to be done for Sections II and IV of the Artificial     Production Review's report. Section II is the "description and historical     overview of Columbia River hatchery programs and policy," and Section IV is     the "compilation of information regarding the historical record of     artificial production mitigation in the Columbia River Basin." Duane Neitzel     is now on board to assist the committee with Section IV, and Bob Tuck will     begin some of the Section II work, Sampsel stated. Neitzel said his work     will involve assembling available data sets from STREAMNET and the     Integrated Hatchery Operations Team (IHOT) reports, as well as from state,     federal, and tribal sources, to develop a searchable database. He proposed     that Section IV include information on annual releases, hatchery practices,     contribution to harvest, and adult returns. 

Neitzel said it's important for the committee and the SRT to prioritize     the information needed because of the 30 to 45-day quick turnaround for     producing the database. The committee asked how to contact the two     contractors:     Duane Neitzel of Battelle: phone - (509) 376-0602; e-mail - duane.neitzel@pnl.gov        Bob Tuck of Eco-Northwest: phone - (509) 697-9317; e-mail - salmon@wolfenet.com    

**INTERVIEWS WILL KICK OFF SECTION II WORK**Tuck explained that the first part of the Section II work will involve     conducting interviews with hatchery managers in the basin. The idea is to     identify some folks to interview who may have retired from state and federal     agencies and tribal governments, he said. Section II work will also involve     looking at information that may not be available in databases or in other     written reports, Tuck stated. Activities in hatcheries sometimes deviate     from the written record, and we want to see if that is so and coordinate     what we find with Duane's work, he said. Sampsel noted that this work would     help identify how shifts in management and policy have taken place, and he     suggested Tuck work with committee members to develop the questions to be     asked in the interviews. Sampsel said the interview results should be     available for the committee's review in 30 to 45 days. Let's let the two     contractors "get out and scratch" and see if we need more information beyond     what they come up with, he suggested. 

**IHOT SUMMARIES ROLLING OUT**Consultant Don Sampson noted that summaries of the IHOT reports are     being prepared for 67 hatcheries. He went through a sample summary report,     noting that it identifies objectives not being met and remedial actions     needed. Sampson said each summary will include a table of remedial actions     and costs, and a table on contributions to fisheries, spawning grounds, and     hatcheries. 

It's important for us to capture what's there in the existing databases,     in the IHOT audits, and in historical trends through the interviews and to     do it as quickly as possible and bring it back to this table, said Sampsel.     Then we can say the database has to be able to answer these questions, and     if it can't, here's how it has to be changed, he continued. If it seems like     I'm pushing on this, I am, so we can get this information before us, Sampsel     stated. The committee recommended the summaries include a disclaimer that     says the remedial actions listed have not been prioritized or updated by the     agencies. Sampsel said the summaries would be done in 30 days, and that the     "heavy lifting" for the PRC will be to try to figure out the analysis once     it has the data.

**THE RESIDENT FISH REPORT**Sampson reported on a conference call with resident fish managers in     which the managers questioned whether the Artificial Production Review is     serious about resident fish issues. Brian Allee of the Columbia Basin Fish     and Wildlife Authority said the resident fish managers have asked why they     should go to the trouble of collecting resident fish data if the SRT's     schedule doesn't include time to analyze it. If you want Sections II and IV     to encompass resident fish, the SRT's scope of work and schedule need to be     adjusted to incorporate resident fish information and analysis, he stated.     The SRT needs to go back to the resident fish caucus and indicate how the     data would be analyzed and at what level of detail, said Sampsel. 

**FINAL REMARKS: MEET WITH THE SRT AND GET ON TO POLICY ISSUES**Tom Scribner of the Yakama Indian Nation asked for a presentation at the     next meeting on what the SRT's approach will be and whether it will be "a     theoretical modeling exercise." Now that we've kicked off the work with the     consultants, it's time for this committee to start focusing on policy, said     Stephen Smith of the National Marine Fisheries Service. So you'd like some     clarification and additional discussion with the SRT on where they're     headed, and we've agreed that policy management should be a major focus at     our next meetings, summarized Sampsel. Tim Stearns of Save Our Wild Salmon     commented that the Review shouldn't result in "a series of compendia that go     on the shelf." We need to "pioneer a path that makes it a safe atmosphere to     talk about how to reform a hatchery," he stated. 

**MEETING REPORT**

**Getting the Data AssembledInterviews Will Kick Off Section II WorkIHOT Summaries Rolling OutThe Residents Fish ReportFinal Remarks: Meet with the SRT and Get on to Policy     Issues**

**Opening Remarks**

Consultant Roy Sampsel said the meeting will focus on Sections II and IV     of the Artificial Production Review's report outline. Section II is the     "description and historical overview of Columbia River hatchery programs and     policy," and Section IV is the "compilation of information regarding the     historical record of artificial production mitigation in the Columbia River     Basin." We'll develop the work to be done for these sections with the     contractors today, Sampsel said.     The group asked for information on how to contact the two consultants:    Duane Neitzel of Battelle: phone - (509) 376-0602; e-mail - duane.neitzel@pnl.gov        Bob Tuck of Eco-Northwest: phone - (509) 697-9317; e-mail - salmon@wolfenet.com    

**Getting the Data Assembled**

Duane Neitzel is now on board to assist the committee with the database     piece of Section IV, Sampsel stated. I asked Duane, as one of his first     tasks, to review the "Database of Artificially Propagated Anadromous Salmon"     prepared by Natural Resources Consultants in 1995 (Attachment 1), Sampsel     said. 

Neitzel said he talked about the work with Sampsel and Council staffer     John Marsh, who chairs the committee, and they indicated the product should     be a searchable database for use by the PRC and the SRT. Neitzel provided a     handout that outlines the tasks, methods, product, and schedule for his work     (Attachment 2). We will assemble available data sets from STREAMNET and the     Integrated Hatchery Operations Team (IHOT) reports, as well as from state,     federal, and tribal sources, to develop the database, he said. There is a     lot of information, and because of the quick turnaround, the key is to find     out from the SRT what it wants, Neitzel stated.

It's important to focus on what's going to be necessary to do this     review, Neitzel said. He went over the categories of information proposed     for Section IV: annual releases, hatchery practices, contribution to     harvest, and adult returns. I listed these because I want to sit down with     you and the SRT and rank these items so that we produce what is needed in     the 30 to 45 days we have, and also so we can find out what's not in the     data, Neitzel explained. The Section IV work will focus on what happened, he     noted. For example, for annual releases, the date when a hatchery released     fish is a technical question, whereas why they did it would be part of the     historical overview in Section II, Neitzel said.

**Q & A.** Will we have a process to "truth" the data -- to see that     things did in fact occur? asked Doug Dompier of the Columbia River     Inter-Tribal Fish Commission (CRITFC). We will look at how the information     from the different databases compares, so we will be doing some     truth-checking there, Neitzel replied. There are no plans at this point to     go to the hatcheries and verify the data, he said. It's a good idea and may     eventually have to be done, Neitzel added. I've looked at the National     Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and IHOT databases, and cross-checking those     will be a good way to get at your question, at least initially, he said.

Do you know where to get the data in each state? asked Bob Foster of the     Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). Some of the information     on the list we'll be able to get, and some we won't, and it's important to     know where the data is unavailable, replied Neitzel. 

Annual releases give you "the when," but the rest of the information on     your list gives you "the whys," such as looking into hatchery practices,     said Dompier. How will you keep from getting into policy questions? he     asked. Bob Tuck and I will be talking about that, Neitzel replied. He     offered the example of rearing densities. I propose to report what the     practices related to density are at a hatchery, but what causes a change in     policy would fall under Bob's section, Neitzel said. 

If you "threw all the hatcheries on the same table" and compared them on     the same criteria, you would see different results, said Liz Hamilton of the     Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association. Hatcheries have different     purposes -- would you do a sort of hatcheries based on their goals? she     asked. If a hatchery is for a particular fishery and contributing to that     fishery is the goal, and it is set at a number of smolts released in a     certain time, we'd report how the hatchery met the release dates and the     release numbers, responded Neitzel. So you're saying you are just preparing     the data portions and someone else is doing the other? asked Lee Hillwig of     the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Yes, replied Neitzel. The analysis takes     place in Section V, said Marsh. You would like to have the information     related to hatchery goals? Marsh said to Hamilton. Yes, you need to look at     different hatcheries by different standards, she stated. Supplementation     should be on the list of information for Section IV, Neitzel noted.

We need to make sure Section IV provides the information needed to do the     analysis, Marsh said. What's required is to set some priorities, stated     Neitzel. Duane's initial focus, stated Sampsel, is to try to sort data into     the categories we think we need. The question is, are there any other     categories besides the ones on the list that you think would be valuable? he     said. 

Hatchery practices would be a lower priority than the other categories in     answering policy questions for Congress, stated Stephen Smith of NMFS. Why?     asked Bill Bakke of the Native Fish Society. Hatchery practices seem to have     less application to the policy questions for Congress, Smith replied. If I     were a member of Congress, I'd be real interested in hatchery practices and     what is being done at sites that are not meeting their goals, said Hamilton.     We could ask the database to identify facilities that met their stated goal,     and it could identify facilities that met their goals by objective, said     Sampsel. I'm concerned this is too simplistic, stated Hamilton, referring to     the "fish health and fish handling" topics listed under hatchery practices.     The point is to define whether the basic questions we need to ask are here,     stated Sampsel. Duane's first job is to stack the information -- to find out     what's available and stack it, he said. 

Is this information going to be something you can interpret in Sections V     and VI? asked Hillwig. Let's find out what it is and lay it out in one data     form we can all look at, suggested Sampsel. Is a searchable database,     compiled from all the databases available, what you want in order to get the     base information you can use and review? he asked the group. 

The information should indicate whether fish are released at the hatchery     or in the habitat, said Dompier. It's critical to know what species are     being released in the habitat and whether they are being acclimated or just     released, he added. Can that be done? Dompier asked. That's important     information when you are talking about release sites and release conditions,     replied Neitzel. The data needs to be specific on release sites, and we need     to be able to search the database and ask, are hatcheries reaching their     goals and objectives by objective? said Sampsel. 

Can we discern if there's an Endangered Species Act (ESA) issue using     this form of a database? asked Tim Stearns of Save Our Wild Salmon. Probably     not on the first cut, but after the database is put together, you could go     back and ask questions about that, replied Sampsel. The database would be     searchable by watershed, said Neitzel. 

Maybe Duane should review the list of questions this group put together     and doublecheck it with his list for the database to see whether there are     gaps, suggested Smith. Trent Stickell of the Oregon Department of Fish and     Wildlife (ODFW) asked about treatment of cost analysis and cost/benefits.     The benefits information won't come out of the data sets -- that's part of     the analysis, said Sampsel. To determine the costs of facilities, you need     to know the economic benefits -- somewhere that needs to be done, said     Stickell. That's in Sections V and VI, said Sampsel. Duane's first product     is to provide data for analysis, he added. Does having a searchable database     allow us to get there? Sampsel inquired.

This fits anadromous fish real well -- what about resident fish? asked     Foster. We still have "a disconnect" with the resident fish people, and we     need to get more of a link between resident fish and anadromous fish,     replied Marsh. But let's get Duane started on the anadromous fish data, he     suggested. Duane will contact you as he proceeds, and we'll schedule update     meetings when he has something of value to report, said Sampsel. If     additional questions come up, get them to John or Duane, he added. I'll make     the list for Section IV comprehensive and get it to John and the SRT for     ranking, said Neitzel. We're talking about 30 to 45 days for the initial     database, Sampsel reminded the group. 

**Interviews Will Kick Off Section II Work**

Bob Tuck explained that the first part of the Section II work will     involve conducting interviews with hatchery managers in the basin. The idea     is to identify some folks to interview who may have retired from state and     federal agencies and tribal governments, he said. Section II work will also     involve looking at information that may not be available in databases or in     other written reports, Tuck stated. As we know, activities in hatcheries     sometimes deviate from the written record, and we want to see if that is so     and coordinate what we find with Duane's work, he said. I also thought of     looking at state archive material, Tuck noted. I want to work with     interested members of this committee to develop a format for the interviews,     he added.

Sampsel noted that this work would help identify how shifts in management     and policy have taken place. He suggested Tuck work with committee members     to develop a range of questions to be asked in the interviews and to ensure     that the interviewees span the range of knowledge needed for the committee     to determine if what is shown in the data is reflected in the policy. The     intent, said Smith, is to find out if the retired people agree with what's     in the data base, and to ask such questions as: Were certain things done,     and why were they done, from a perspective Congress would be interested in.     "Why" is a big part of the interview process to me, said Smith. 

It's important to get agreement on the questions to be asked upfront,     said Sampsel. You need to decide what basic questions you want to have     covered in the interviews, he stated. 

Consultant Don Sampson circulated minutes from the historical overview     subcommittee meeting (Attachment 3), pointing out they include a list     showing data and format available for hatchery databases of various tribal,     state, and federal agencies. In addition, he explained the statement of work     for Section II of the report. The work, Sampson said, includes contacting     "appropriate hatchery management personnel (past and present) from tribal,     state, and federal fish and wildlife agencies to investigate, collect, and     record reports, interviews, written communications, and other pertinent     information in order to prepare a written narrative for an historical     overview" of hatchery programs and policies for anadromous and resident fish     hatcheries in the Columbia River Basin. The contractor, he continued, should     focus on "summarizing existing hatchery programs, agreements, and laws which     initiated the hatcheries, including the purpose, program objectives,     funding, locations and dates of operation, fundamental changes in stocks or     locations of release, or changes in program objectives, etc." The contractor     would summarize trends in production programs in terms of releases, stock     changes, major policy or technological changes, and evaluation plans and     prepare an initial investigation report to the PRC, which identifies the     availability of the historical information within 30 days. The contractor     would prepare a draft of the historical overview for anadromous fish and     resident fish within 45 days, Sampson said. If there is anything else the     contractor should do beyond this, you should tell us, he stated. 

**Q & A.**What's the reach of your historic perspective? asked Bakke.     As long as the retired people are alive, replied Sampson. You'll find in     Oregon there is a lot of information in the archives from 1877 to the     present, he added. The report would focus on major changes and trends,     Sampson said. Jim Lichatowich has captured some of that information in his     framework paper, noted Bakke. A lot hasn't been captured, and there are     people who know why certain changes took place in the hatchery arena, said     Sampsel. It's important to talk with them, and that will give the background     for why this committee may decide to recommend certain policy actions in the     future, he said. This is the background piece for the report to Congress,     stated Sampsel. Let's let these folks "get out and scratch" and see if we     need more information beyond what they come up with, he suggested. 

In the interviews, will you know beforehand what the hatchery was     intended to produce so you can ask, why isn't the facility meeting the     objectives? asked Tom Scribner of the Yakama Indian Nation. It's important     to do the homework and to know who an interviewee worked for, his     responsibilities, and what was going on in the agency when he worked there,     Tuck stated. 

You need the database before you start talking to people -- isn't the raw     data the first product for Section II? asked Hillwig. Then you would get     information from the interviews and see how it affects the database, he     said. We are pretending here that we don't know anything, commented Sampsel.     We know an awful lot, he said. The question, according to Sampsel, is does     the statement of work paragraph that Sampson read capture the range of     questions that needs to be asked? 

I don't see my piece of the puzzle as a database, said Tuck. My piece is     to look at the database and go and ask people, are there things that aren't     written down, but are in your experience? he explained. It's a way to     uncover the historic pieces of the puzzle that were never written down and     never got into the record, Tuck stated. 

I see a swing here from what Section II was intended to be, said Hillwig.     No, we're saying Section II documents changes in policies and objectives,     stated Sampsel. Our first go-round on Section II had a certain amount of     data in it, said Hillwig. Is it now going to be a narrative only? he asked.     This is just a piece we are asking Bob to do, replied Sampsel. It will be     compiled into Section II -- there isn't a change, he stated, adding that the     piece will come in in 30 to 45 days and be available to be reviewed. 

With this, I see us going back further in history than I envisioned, said     Stickell. The PRC is an advisory group to determine how much information and     what types of information are important and at what level of detail, said     Sampsel. The policy started in the mid-1800s, said Stickell. What we need to     focus on is 1950 forward, said Smith. That's when modern hatchery     construction started, he added. Why not the beginning of time? asked     Stickell. Let's let the contractors go out and do the work and bring back     the results, and if we find we need a more detailed discussion of what     Oregon was doing in the 1800s, we'll deal with that then, said Sampsel. Is     this enough information to let Section II go forward? he asked. 

I'd be happy to talk with each member of the committee individually, Tuck     volunteered. Let me start, and you can do mid-course corrections as I go     along, he suggested. My personal frame of reference, Tuck stated, is that     two things shaped the Northwest -- the Bonneville Project Act and the     Mitchell Act. I start there and come forward, he said. 

Hatcheries were set up in the mid-1800s with specific goals -- the     reports are there, and if we want to look at policy, that's a good place to     start to get an overview, said Stickell. "I'll be on your doorstep," Tuck     told him. "Just bring money," quipped Stickell. If we find costs that need     to be covered, we should identify them so we can figure out how it can be     done, said Sampsel. By the first of next week, people will get an e-mail     with the names of the individuals Bob plans to interview, along with a     schedule, Sampsel summed up. 

**IHOT Summaries Rolling Out**

Sampson noted that summaries of the IHOT reports are being prepared and     provided to the contractors. He distributed one of the summaries, for the     Clearwater Hatchery for spring chinook and summer steelhead (Attachment 4).     The reports are done by species, Sampson said, noting that there are 67     hatcheries with these types of reports. He pointed out the IHOT audits were     done in 1996-97 by Montgomery Watson under the Northwest Power Planning     Council's Fish and Wildlife Program. Sampson said that IHOT established five     basic policies covering hatchery coordination, hatchery performance     standards, fish health, ecological interaction, and genetics. The IHOT     reports identify remedial actions needed, with compliance cost estimates, he     noted. Sampson went through the contents of the sample summary report,     noting that it identifies objectives not being met and remedial actions     needed. Tables provide information on detailed expenditures at the hatchery     for the two fish species, he said.

This summary is lacking in a lot of areas -- to get the details, you have     to go to the actual report, commented Stickell. The part that's missing is     the economic contribution -- you've got the costs, but where are the     benefits? he said. This is what is in the summaries so far -- is there     additional information the summaries should capture? asked Sampsel. After we     get the summaries and the other information we are gathering, we'll decide     how we want to display and analyze it, he said. Tom Rogers of the Idaho Fish     and Game Department noted that the production goals for the Clearwater     Hatchery have changed. The IHOT report dealt with "a moment in time," and     Bob will have to flesh out additional information about what happened at the     hatchery, he stated. 

Did the IHOT team develop a format for the summaries? asked Hillwig. No,     replied George Nandor of ODFW. We proposed the work to be funded in another     contract, said Foster. What was proposed would have been useful, stated     Sampsel. We are now dealing with what information is in the audits that can     be summarized and whether additional information is needed, and my guess is     yes, he said. But we need to get all the information in one place so we can     make those judgments, Sampsel added. It's important for us to capture what's     there in the existing databases, in the IHOT audits, and in historical     trends through the interviews and to do it as quickly as possible and bring     it back to this table, he said. Then we can say the database has to be able     to answer these questions, and if it can't, here's how it has to be changed,     Sampsel continued. If it seems like I'm pushing on this, I am, so we can get     this information before us, he added.

I'd like to take the time to have our people who worked on IHOT look at     these and see if they envisioned summaries like this, said Hillwig. We can     get our comments to Don quickly, he added. That type of work takes time and     money -- we were looking at stacking the audit summaries and having a piece     to go from, said Sampsel. I'd be comfortable with what Don has done if there     were a qualifier in there that says "this is not approved by the agencies,"     and that there may be additional remedial actions the agencies think are     needed beyond what is identified in the summaries, said Foster. The agencies     didn't tell the contractor what they wanted as remedial actions, noted     Nandor. 

The summaries should reflect the data source, the dates the report and     summary were done, and the disclaimer is totally appropriate, particularly     if the agencies haven't reviewed the remedial actions, said Sampsel. Each     summary will also include a table of remedial actions and costs, and a table     on contributions to fisheries, spawning grounds, and hatcheries, Sampson     noted. He said the remedial actions table will include a note saying that     the actions have not been prioritized or updated by the respective agencies.     Is this work product scheduled to be done in 30 days? asked Brian Allee of     the Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Authority (CBFWA). Yes, replied     Sampsel. The "heavy lifting" for the PRC will be to try to figure out the     analysis once it has the data, he added.

**The Resident Fish Report**

Sampson reported on a May 26 conference call with resident fish managers     in which he said the question was raised whether the Artificial Production     Review is serious about resident fish issues. The managers discussed the     fact that the SRT's plate seems to be full with answering questions about     anadromous fish, and if additional questions on resident fish are posed, it     may take the SRT more time to complete its work, he said.

The resident fish managers need to review the anadromous fish questions     to see what additional resident fish technical questions need to be     submitted, Sampson stated. The SRT needs to revise its statement of work to     encompass addressing the resident fish questions, he said. As they collect     Section II and Section IV information, Duane and Bob will need to access the     resident fish information in your databases, Sampson told the group. The     resident fish group also needs to appoint a chair, he stated, noting that     Bob Foster's name came up in the conversation. Foster wasn't on the call, so     no action was taken, Sampson said. CBFWA has volunteered Diana McDonald to     provide administrative support for the chair, once that person is selected,     Sampson said. 

Don't assume that the anadromous fish questions and policies will     transfer automatically to resident fish, Allee told the group. This     committee shouldn't be "anadrocentric," he advised. The resident fish     managers have asked, why go to the trouble of collecting resident fish data     if the SRT won't have much time to devote to analyzing it? Allee said. If     you want Sections II and IV to encompass resident fish, the scope of work     and schedule for the SRT need to be adjusted to incorporate resident fish     information and analysis, he stated. Allee added that CBFWA is acting as     "the eyes and ears" for the resident fish managers and trying to see that     they get information. 

The SRT needs to go back to the resident fish caucus and indicate how the     data would be analyzed and at what level of detail, said Sampsel. Yes --     it's "not a trivial deal" with respect to the SRT's time, said Allee.     There's a consultation scheduled with resident fish tribal policy leaders     and staff in Spokane June 10 involving the Colvilles, Spokanes, Coeur     d'Alenes, and the Kalispels, Sampsel said. That discussion may shed some     light on how the resident fish piece fits into the Artificial Production     Review, he stated. 

Does the committee think the SRT should get going on its analysis and     that the resident fish managers should write questions, even if the analysis     has to be done as a second phase after anadromous fish? asked Sampson. The     committee expressed no opposition to the idea.

So we will develop some questions specific to resident fish, and we need     feedback from the SRT, said Sampsel. The resident fish caucus needs to talk     to the SRT, he stated. We think the resident fish analysis is useful and     important, but the level of detail required may change after this week's     consultation meeting, Sampsel said. Si Whitman of the Nez Perce Tribe said     the resident fish analysis is important and that it relates to the     anadromous fish analysis. We'll report back on this, Sampsel told the group.     Bob Tuck will need to know whether to schedule interviews with resident fish     people, Sampson noted. The important thing is to get the feedback to the     folks doing the work, agreed Sampsel. 

**Final Remarks: Meet with the SRT and Get on to     Policy Issues**

Dompier said the Lichatowich framework paper mentioned at the last     meeting is a "hatchery-bashing study" and if it becomes the framework for     the SRT's report, "it won't work." Those who have comments on that report     and its relationship to the SRT work plan should get them to Chip McConnaha     and the SRT, stated Sampsel. We said in our work plan that we would revisit     the work outlined for the SRT after we get in the results of the work we     discussed today, he said. 

At the last meeting, a letter from the Council to the House     Appropriations subcommittee about Mitchell Act funding was distributed, said     Dompier. He pointed out that CRITFC wrote a letter to the Congressional     committee in response to the Council's letter, and he passed out copies     (Attachment 5). 

Marsh reported that the SRT hasn't met since the PRC's last meeting. They     will meet soon with Duane and Bob, he noted. Sampsel said now that products     are beginning to come out, most will be distributed by e-mail prior to the     meetings at which they will be discussed. He urged anyone who isn't on the     e-mail distribution list to contact Marsh.

When we go through this exercise to get a database, how will we apply it     to reforming a hatchery and its practices? Stearns inquired. How will this     exercise restore confidence in hatcheries and reform them? he asked. That's     the heart of what we get to in Sections V and VI, responded Sampsel. 

At the next meeting, I'd like Chip [McConnaha] to come and tell us how     the SRT process will work, said Scribner. I'd like to know what their     approach will be and whether it will be a "theoretical modeling exercise,"     he said, adding that previously, the SRT indicated it would be a literature     review. I recommend some case studies be done in categories like species     interactions and genetics, said Sampson. 

Now that we've kicked off the work with the consultants, it's time for us     to go back and focus on Sections V and VI, said Smith. We should go through     and determine how to prioritize the questions on the list and start focusing     on policy while the consultants work, he stated. I got the sense the SRT has     decided what the questions are going to be -- that they took what we gave     them and that's it, said Dompier. What's being suggested is getting together     with Chip and the SRT and also getting this committee back to discussing the     policy management issues, stated Sampsel. 

I thought the SRT sorted and prioritized the technical questions, said     Allee. On the policy side, we need to begin to have those discussions, he     stated. With all the different viewpoints, it's very appropriate to start to     communicate on what we are really doing, Allee added. So you want to have     some clarification and additional discussion with the SRT on where they're     headed and maybe do some case studies, said Sampsel. And we've agreed that     policy management should be a major focus of our next meeting, he added. 

It might be premature to have it at the next meeting, said Smith. We may     need to have you come in with some methods to help the committee reach as     much consensus as possible, he stated. We should begin looking at the policy     forum, recommended Sampson. 

I don't want this effort to result in "a series of compendia that go on     the shelf," said Stearns. We should make sure, he continued, that we get to     where we can take a facility through a review and say: What is its purpose?     What's the context? How do we gauge its effectiveness and its engagement     with the ESA? and How do we come up with a reform plan? We need to "pioneer     a path that makes it a safe atmosphere to talk about how to reform a     hatchery," Stearns said. I don't want this to be "a paper exercise" that     doesn't give us guidance to do such things, he stated. 

Let's go back to the policy management discussions, and let's put     "clarification and update with the SRT" as an item on the next meeting     agenda, suggested Sampsel. Let's not concentrate on the database now --     let's get to the policy issues, and maybe identify some individual     facilities we want to look at, per Tim's suggestion, he said. Adjourn

Production Review Committee June 8, 1998 Meeting Attendees

**Brian Allee**, Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Authority **Robert Austin**, BPA **Bill Bakke**, Native Fish Society **Doug Dompier**, Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission **Randy Fisher**, Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission**Bob Foster**, Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife **Liz Hamilton**, Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association **Lee Hillwig**, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service **Jeni Lassell**, Student Intern, Sampsel Consulting **John Marsh**, Northwest Power Planning Council staff **George Nandor**, Oregon Dept. of Fish and Wildlife **Duane Neitzel**, Battelle Tom Rogers, Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game **Roy Sampsel**, Sampsel Consulting Don Sampson, Sampsel Consulting **Tom Scribner**, Yakama Indian Nation Stephen Smith, National Marine     Fisheries Service **Trent Stickell**, Oregon Dept. of Fish and Wildlife **Theodora Strong**, Northwest Power Planning Council staff **Bob Tuck**, Eco-Northwest Si Whitman, Nez Perce Tribe

Participating by Telephone:

**Stacy Horton**, Northwest Power Planning Council staff **Tim Stearns**, Save Our Wild Salmon

**Adjourn**

^ top  |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|