### UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: SKYWEST AIRLINES FDMS No. FAA-2013-0617 Respondent

Tuesday, May 20, 2014 Courtroom 5223 U.S. Tax Court Wallace Bennett Federal Building 125 South State Street Salt Lake City, Utah 84138 The hearing convened, pursuant to notice, at 9:00 a.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE RICHARD C. GOODWIN, Administrative I.aw Judge

# R.EC~EI\IED

HEARING DOCKET

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### APPEARANCES:

On Behalf of the Complainant: JEFFREY HARPER, ESQ. of: Federal Aviation Administration Office of Regional Counsel 1601 Lind Avenue Southwest Renton, Washington 98057 (425) 227-2161 jeffrey.harper®faa.gov

On Behalf of the Respondent: MICHAEL L. DWORKIN, ESQ. of: Michael L. Dworkin 

### & Associates 465 California Street Suite 210 San Francisco, California 94104 (415) 421-2599 law®avialex.com TODD C. EMERSON, ESQ. General Counsel Skywest Airlines 444 South River Road St. George, Utah 84790 (435) 634-3530 temerson®skywest.com

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### TABLE OF CONTENTS WITNESS Jeremy Barclay Jay Christensen Maggi Aiken DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT 371 

### 427 439 412 436 454 425 369



### EXHIBITS Respondent's MARK RECD

1-1

- Weight and Balance Operations Manual 2-1

- Cargo Load Report 8 - Customer Service Training Bulletin 7 - Ground Operations 6-1, 6-2, 6-3 Weight and Balance Corrective Action Documents 9 - List of Violations 10

- Responses to letters of investigation

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### 375 387 391 395

400 403 401 403

406 409 446 448

453 454

(202) 234-4433370 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (9:07a.m.) 3 JUDGE GOODWIN: On the record. 4 Be seated. 5 Mr. Dworkin? 6 MR. DWORKIN: Yes, thank you, Your 7 Honor. 8 I'd like to call Jeremy Barclay. 9 JUDGE GOODWIN: State your name for 10 the record, and spell your first and last 11 name. 12 MR. BARCLAY: Jeremy J. Barclay, J13 E-RE-M-Y B-A-RC-L-A-Y. 14 Whereupon, 15 JEREMY J. BARCLAY 16 was called as a witness by the Respondent, and 17 having been first duly sworn, testified as 18 follows: 19 DIRECT EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. DWORKIN: 21 Q Good morning, Mr. Barclay, how are 22 you?

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### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433371

1 A Doing well, sir. 2 Q Could you please tell the Court 3 what your current employment is? 4 A Yes. I'm the Director of Safety 5 Policy and Security with Skywest Airlines. 6 Q And, how long have you held that 7 position? 8 A I've been in that position since 9 April of 2011. 10 Q And, as Director of Safety Policy 11 and Security, what are your duties and 12 responsibilities? 13 A Primary duties and 14 responsibilities are to oversee the safety 15 policy in collaborationwith other departments 16 across the company. And, I also receive 17 oversee the Security Team Corporate Technical 18 Publications and Standards in the 19 implementationof RSMS. And, I interfacewith 20 regulatory agencies, such as the FAA, TSA, and 21 FBI. 22 Q Would that include oversight over

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1 

### Skywest's ground services and aircraft 2 loading? 3 A 

### In previous positions I did that. 4 As part of my current position, the Safety 5 Management System does cover that element. 6 Q 

### What was your position prior to 7 your taking this position in April, 2011? 8 A 

### I was the Manager of Customer 9 

### Service Compliance and Standards. 10 Q 

### And, what did that position 11 entail? 12 A 

### Basically, I 

### was assigned to 13 oversee the regulatory compliance for the 14 CustomerServiceDepartment, to interfacewith 15 DFFA, specifically on any concerns that they 16 

### might have, and to develop process 17 

### measurements and procedures to ensure 18 compliance. 19 Q 

### Did that include aircraft loading 20 and weight and balance? 21 A It 

### did. 22 Q 

### Ground services?

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1 A 

### Yes. 2 Q 

### Customer service? 3 A 

### Yes. 4 Q 

### And, how long did you have that 5 position? 6 A 

### I was in that position for, 7 

### approximately, six or seven months. 8 Q 

### And, what was your position prior 9 

### to that? 10 A 

### I was the Manager of Customer 11 

### Service Ground Operations Training. 12 Q 

### And, what were your duties and 13 

### responsibilities in that position? 14 A 

### I had oversight of all of the 15 

### below wing or ground operations training 16 

### standards, which included our new hire 17 

### regulatory training, oversight of the 18 CertifiedStationTrainerProgram, and DICE as 19 well. 20 Q 

### And, how long did you have that 21 

### position? 22 A 

### I began that position in March of

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1 

### 2008. 2 Q 

### And, prior to that? 3 A 

### Prior to that, I was a Supervisor 4 in that same department, Ground Operations 5 

### Training, and a Ground Operations Training 6 

### Instructor. 7 Q 

### For how long? 8 A 

### I started those in April of 2004, 9 from the range of April, 2004, to March, 2008. 10 Q 

### Okay. Any aviation employment 11 

### prior to Skywest? 12 A 

### No. 13 Q 

### Tell us something about your 14 

### education post high school. 15 A 

### I have a Bachelor of Arts degree 16 

### from Westminster College in Aviation 17 

### Management. And, I also hold a Master of 18 Business Administration from Westminster 19 College. 20 Q 

### And, those were issued when? 21 A 

### The undergraduate degree was ln 22 2002, and the graduate degree was in 2009.

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### Are you familiar with Schist's 2 Weight and Balance Program? 3 A 

### Yes. 4 MR. DWORKIN: May I approach, Your 5 Honor? 6 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 7 

### MR. DWORKIN: I am showing Mr. 8 Barclay what has been marked as Exhibit R1-1, 9 

### and, Your Honor, I believe I left a copy at 10 the Bench for you. 11 

### (Whereupon, the document was 12 

### marked for identification as 13 

### Exhibit R1-1. 14 (Whereupon, the witness was 15 proffered the document.) 16 BY MR. DWORKIN: 17 Q 

### Do you have the document in front 18 

### of you? 19 

### A I do. 20 Q 

### What is this? 21 

### A This is the Weight and Balance 22 Operations Manual, Standard Practice 4100,

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### 1 Original Revision, dated April 1st of 2010. 2 Q 

### Okay. And, when you say "Standard 3 Practice 4100," it's also known as SP 4100. 4 A 

### Correct. 5 Q 

### Okay. So, if we use the term SP 6 we are on the same frequency, correct? 7 A 

### Yes. 8 Q 

### Okay. In the Weight and Balance

- 9

- Schist uses an average weights program, is 10 that correct? 11 A 

### That's correct. 12 Q 

### So, under the average weights 13 program, passengers are assigned an average 14 weight, right? 15 A 

### Correct. 16 Q 

### So, whether you are a jockey or an 17 NFL linebacker, all adult makes have the same 18 weight under the average weights program. 19 MR. HARPER: Objection, leading. 20 JUDGE GOODWIN: Sustained, rephrase 21 the question. 22 BY MR. DWORKIN:

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1 Q 

### Do all under the average 2 weights program, are all passengers assigned 3 an average weight? 4 A 

### They are. 5 Q 

### Okay. So, what is the weight that 6 is assigned to adult males? 7 A 

### In the summertime, it's an average 8 of 190 pounds, and they have a winter weight, 9 which is 195 pounds. J.O Q 

### Okay. And, how about adult 11 females? 12 A 

### It would be the same for both. 13 Q 

### How about children? 14 A 

### Children have a summer weight of 15 82 pounds, a winter weight of 87 pounds. 16 Q 

### And, how are children defined, 17 age-wise? 18 A 

### If memory serves me correctly, I 19 believe it's under 12 years of age or 13 years 20 of age. 21 Q 

### Okay. And so, older than that 22 they are treated as adults?

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1 

### A Correct. 2 Q 

### How about baggage? Are they 3 

### assigned weights? 4 

### A They are. 5 Q 

### Okay. So, there was some 6 testimonyyesterdayregardinga standardcheck 7 bags, and what are standard check bags? 8 A 

### Standard check bags are any bags 9 that weigh less than 50 

### pounds. 10 Q 

### And, what weight are they assigned 11 

### for purposes of Schist 1\verage Weights 12 

### Program? 13 A 

### They are assigned 30 pounds. 14 Q 

### There was also some testimony 15 

### about heavy bags. What are heavy bags? 16 A 

### Heavy bags are any bags that are 17 

### over 50 

### pounds and less than 100 

### pounds. 18 Q 

### And, what weight are they 19 

### assigned? 20 A 

### 60 pounds. 21 Q 

### And, how about plane side valet 22 bags, or gate check bags, are they assigned a

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### 1 weight? 2 A 

### They are, 30 pounds. 3 Q 

### And, how about stuff that they put 4 in the overhead bin, are they assigned a 5 weight? 6 A 

### No, they are not. They are carry 7 on, a personal i tern, which is included in the 8 passenger weight. 9 Q 

### So, in other words, if I were to 10 take this litigatim bag and put it in an 11 overhead bin, it would weigh nothing? 12 A 

### Correct. 13 Q 

### If I couldn't get this litigation 14 bag, because it's so full, in the overhead 15 bin, and I gave it to the gate agent to check 16 as a plane side valet bag, what weight would 17 this bag then have? 18 A 

### It would be assigned a 30 pound 19 weight. 20 Q 

### Now, if I'm on the CRJ, I can 21 probably get this bag into the overhead bin. 22 The overheadbins on the Brasilia, the MD 120,

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1 

### They can also be checked as 2 baggage, and so the same baggage weights would 3 

### apply for the average bag weights. If 

### they 4 weigh less than 50 pounds they would be 5 counted as 30 pounds average. If they weighed 6 over 50 pounds up to 1.00 pounds, they would be 7 included as a heavy checked bag, or have an 8 average weight of 60 pounds. 9 Q 

### Okay. And,. how about a service 10 animal? 1.1. A 

### Service animals are -- remain in 1.2 the cabin, and they are not assigned a weight. 1.3 Q 

### So, they have a zero weight. 14 A 

### Correct. 15 Q 

### So, when you add up all these 16 weights, which are all averages, and you come 1.7 to some total figure, that is based upon the 18 average weight, is that correct? 19 A 

### Correct. 20 Q 

### It may not be the actual weight. 21 A 

### Correct. 22 Q 

### So, the weight that is on the load

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1 

### manifest of the aircraft, is that based on the 2 actual weight or on the average weights? 3 A 

### It would be based on the average 4 weights. 5 Q 

### So, in other words, because the 6 

### load manifest is based on the average weight, 7 

### the total weight of the aircraft at the load 8 

### manifest may not be the actual weight of the 9 

### aircraft. 10 A 

### Correct. 11 Q 

### Now, we there was some 12 

### testimony yesterday regarding the CLR, or a 13 

### cargo load report. What is that? 14 A 

### The cargo load report is 

### a 15 worksheet that is used by a loading agent or 16 a ground operations agent to track the baggage 17 piece count, and total cargo weight, and any 18 other notifications that the pilot would need 19 to be aware of, such as a live animal or a 20 dangerous goods shipment. 21 Q 

### And, thi,s is a carbon copy type 22 form?

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### 1 A 

### Correct. It's 

### a two-part 2 carbonless form. 3 Q 

### Carbonless? Okay. 4 

### So, what happens to the forms, 5 

### once they are completed? 6 

### A The station maintains a copy of 7 

### the form, and they

-- 

### about five to seven 8 minutes prior to departure they will give the 9 other copy of the form to one of the crew 10 members on the flight deck for further 11 calculation. 12 Q 

### Okay. And, are these forms color 13 coded, so one copy, the station copy is one 14 color, the crew copy is another color? 15 A 

### Yes. The station copy is a white 16 

### copy, which is the top copy. And, the one 17 handed to the flight crew is, generally, a 18 yellow copy. 19 Q 

### And, that's given to the crew, you 20 say, seven minutes before the departure? 21 A 

### Correct. 22 Q 

### What are the procedures, if any

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1 exist, for amending the cargo load report? 2 A Well, before any of the

-- if the 3 cargo load report has already been given to 4 pilot command, any changes to that weight 5 that's been given haE: to be approved by the 6 pilot command. 7 And so, depending how many minutes 8 prior to departure, if the aircraft door is 9 still open, they would go up onto the flight 10 deck and verbally communicate that. They 11 would draw a line through the area that they 12 were to correct, and make sure that it was 13 clearly communicated to the pilot command. 14 If the door is closed, and we've 15 got a last-minute bag that's arrived at plane 16 site, again, the same approval has to be 17 obtained verbally through the pilot command, 18 and they can do that through an ops radio or 19 headset communication, and they'll amend the 20 station copy of the cargo load report at that 21 point. 22 Q Okay. Is there any requirement

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### 1 the pilot, or the flight crew, amends their 2 copy of the CLR? 3 A 

### There's no requirement for that. 4 However, if there is

-- you know, if the door 5 

### is open, and we've got time to go up and 6 

### verbally amend, we recommend doing that. 7 

### But, if the door is closed, 8 there's not a requirement to do that. 9 Q 

### Now, on the back side of the CLR, 10 on the station copy of the CLR, there',s 11 something there, is that correct? 12 A 

### Correct. 13 Q 

### And, what is that? 14 A 

### Those are it's, basically, a 15 tally sheet for each type of bag that could be 16 loaded onto an aircraft. So, it breaks down 17 the baggage, the types of baggage by the cargo 18 bins that they can be loaded into. And, it 19 also has, I believe, an at the time add an 20 area for notes to record and do math on any 21 cargo weights. 22 Q 

### Okay. So, that's, basically, to

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1 

### help the people on the ground keep track of 2 the baggage count? 3 A 

### Correct. 4 Q 

### Do you have SP 4100 

### in front of 5 

### you? 6 A I 

### do. 7 Q 

### I'm turning to page 3-8, 

### paragraph 8 B, 

### it talks about change in the aircraft 9 

### loading configuration once the load manifest 10 

### has been completed. 11 

### Is that your understanding of the 12 procedure, that it's at the discretion of the 13 

### pilot in command? 14 A 

### Yes. 15 Q 

### And, in terms of changing the 16 

### aircraft loading configuration, what 17 

### circumstances would bring that about? 18 A 

### And again, as previously 19 mentioned, if we have late baggage that 20 arrived to the aircraft, and/or passengers, 21 that it would require recalculation. 22 Q 

### Okay. So, for instance, let's say

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### 1 some late-coming passengers arrived, all the 2 overhead bins were full. So, what would you 3 do with all that stuff that was originally 4 destined for the overhead bin? 5 A 

### It would have to be given a clean6 

### sight belly tag and loaded in the back, and 7 assigned a 30 pound weight. 8 Q 

### But, after the CLR is completed, 9 there are last minute changes that are 10 permissible, is that correct? 11 A 

### Correct. 12 MR. DWORKIN: Your Honor, I'd ask 13 that Exhibit Rl-1 be received. 14 

### MR. HARPER: No objection, Your 15 Honor. 16 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Respondent's 1-1 17 for identification will be received as 18 Respondent's 1-1. 19 (Whereupon, the document that was 20 previously marked for 21 identification as Respondent's 22 Exhibit 1-1, was received in

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1 

### evidence.) 2 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 3 proffered the document.) 4 

### BY MR. DWORKIN: 5 Q 

### Do you have Exhibit R2-1 in front 6 

### of you, sir? 7 A I 

### do. 8 

### MR. DWORKIN: I believe Your Honor 9 

### has a copy. 10 

### Jim, do you have a copy? 11 

### MR. HARPER: Yes. 12 BY MR. DWORKIN: 13 Q 

### What is R2-1? 14 A 

### It's a cargo load report. 15 Q 

### Well, it's a manual, is it not? 16 A 

### I'm sorry, I've got this here. 17 

### MR. HARPER: No, it's R21, not 2-1

. 18 

### MR. DWORKIN: That's 19 

### THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 

### MR. DWORKIN: Sorry. May I 21 approach, Your Honor? 22 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes.

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### 1 (Whereupon, the witness was 2 proffered the document.) 3 BY MR. DWORKIN: 4 Q 

### Mr. Barclay, what is that? 5 A 

### These are the aircraft loading 6 procedures, as detailed in our Station 7 OperationsManual, StandardPracticeReport SP 8 

### 5500. 9 Q 

### Okay. And, what does that do? 10 A 

### It, basically, standardizes the 11 loading process for all of the personnel 12 involved, and with the objective to eliminate 13 weight and balance reporting errors. 14 Q 

### And, it references a designated 15 loading agent. What or who is a designated 16 loading agent? 17 A 

### A designated loading agent is the 18 individual that's responsible for making sure 19 that the baggage and cargo loaded in the 20 aircraft is accurately reported to the pilot 21 command. 22 Q 

### And, does SP 5500 also allow for

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### 1 changes to the CLR after it has been prepared 2 and given to the flight crew? 3 A 

### It does. 4 

### MR. DWORKIN: I'd ask that Exhibit 5 R2-1, what is SP 5500, be received, Your 6 Honor. 7 

### MR. HARPER: Your Honor, the 8 absence of any evidence of the revision date, 9 

### or when this was applicable, I'm not sure if 10 there's any relevance to this case. ll BY MR. DWORKIN: 12 Q 

### Mr. Barclay, looking at Exhibit 13 

### R2-1, was that the manual that was in effect 14 at the time that these cases, which is the 15 subject of the proceeding, arose? 16 A 

### I believe Revision 18 was, with a 17 

### date, if I recall correctly, it's September, 18 2011. 19 Q 

### And, in connection with these 20 cases, were the ground personnel required to 21 act and fulfill their duties in accordance 22 with SP 5500?

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1 A 

### Yes, they were. 2 

### MR. DWORKIN: I'd ask that R2-1 be 3 received, Your Honor. 4 

### MR. HARPER: No objection, Your 5 Honor. 6 JUDGE GOODWIN: Respondents 2-1 for 7 identification is received into evidence as 8 Respondent's 2-1. 9 ·(Whereupon, the document that was 10 previously marked for 11 

### identification as Respondent's 12 Exhibit 2-1, was received in 13 

### evidence.) 14 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: And, what should 15 the date of this be then? 16 MR. DWORKIN: This procedure was, 17 actually, distributedwith a bulletin in April 18 of 2010, and I believe it-- I'm sorry, April, 19 2011, and then it was incorporated into a 20 revision of the Station Operations Manual in 21 September of 2011. 22 JUDGE GOODWIN: Thank you.

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1 

### BY MR. DWORKIN: 2 Q 

### Now, these standard practices are 3 

### intended to be utilized by Schist personnel, 4 

### is that correct? 5 A 

### That's correct. 6 Q 

### Okay. Do Schist personnel load 7 

### all of Schist aircraft system-wide? 8 A 

### No. We have several contract 9 vendor employees that load Schist aircraft 10 across the system. 11 Q 

### And, when you say, "contract 12 vendor employees," what, specifically, do you 13 mean? 14 A 

### Our mainline partners have ground 15 handlers that perform various functions for 16 aircraft servicingand ground operations. And 17 so, they will contract on an RFP, a request 18 for proposal, basis, on a frequency set by 19 that mainline partner. 20 

### Schist is one of those ground 21 handling vendors, so to speak, so there is 22 opportunity for us to ground handle our own

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### 1 aircraft, in addition to other regional and/or 2 

### mainline aircraft. It just depends on who 3 wins the bid for the contract. 4 Q 

### Okay. But, for instance, when you 5 are talking about your mainline partners, you 6 are talking about United, and at the time 7 Continental. 8 A 

### Correct. 9 Q 

### Delta, and who else at the time 10 that these cases arose? 11 A 

### If memory serves me correctly, we 12 had Delta Global Services, which is a 13 subsidiary of Delta Airlines Regional Lead 14 Airline Services. I think those were the main 15 ones. 16 Q 

### When you said that many of your 17 mainline partners would take over this 18 responsibility, and contract it out, these 19 contractors were your mainline partners' 20 contractors, not Schist contractors, is that 21 correct? 22 A 

### Correct. In most cases, that's

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### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3"101 (202) 234-4433394 1 

### the case. 2 Q 

### Now, were your mainline partners 3 and your contractors expected to utilize SP 4 4100 and SP 5500? 5 A 

### Yes, as per the training that we 6 

### provided to them, yes. 7 Q 

### And, you did provide training to 8 

### your mainline partners and their contractors? 9 A 

### We did. 10 Q 

### Now, on the

-- with respect to the 11 

### stations that were involved in these cases, do 12 

### we know who the mainline partners were who had 13 

### the responsibility for loading and counting 14 baggage in each of these cases? 15 A 

### We do. 16 Q In 

### connecti= with the 17 

### investigationof the incidents which give rise 18 

### to this case, did you undertake any 19 investigation, or was that somebody else? 20 A I 

### had a 

### customer service 21 

### compliance and standards specialist that did 22 the bulk of the investigating. I oversaw the

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### 16 A Per the training that we provide, 17 they should be doing a physical baggage count. 18 However, there are baggage scanners that exist 19 in the system that were initially created for 20 tracking baggage movement through the system, 21 not, necessarily, weight and balance. So, 22 sometimes that could be used by a loading

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### 1 agent. 2 Q 

### Going back to Exhibit R1-1, the 3 cargo load report, could you turn to page 4- 4 13? Let me make sure I have the right page. 5 Yes, I 

### have the right page. 6 

### What is that document depicted on 7 page 4-13? 8 A 

### Mine shows the back side of the 9 cargo load report. 10 Q 

### And, this is part of the station 11 copy of the cargo load report. 12 A 

### Correct. 13 Q 

### And, after the station completes 14 the cargo load report, what, if anything, does 15 the station do with it? 16 A 

### The station is required to keep 17 their copy of the cargo load report on file 18 until the end of the operating day, at which 19 time they discard it. 20 Q 

### And, is that a company requirement: 21 or an FAA requirement, to your knowledge? 22 A 

### That's a company requirement under

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### 1 our FAA program. 2 Q 

### So, the back side of the cargo 3 

### load report, the back side of the station copy 4 

### of the cargo load report, is a form which 5 

### Schist requires to be retained for at least 6 

### for one day. 7 A 

### Correct. 8 Q 

### Now, there have been some 9 instances, these included, in which Schist 10 baggage counts have been off, correct? 11 A 

### Correct. 12 Q 

### This has gone on for, not just 13 these cases, but there were some prior cases 14 as well, is that correct? 15 A 

### That's correct. 16 Q 

### Okay. And, what, if anything, has 17 Schist done to improve the situation, to 18 ensure that counting is more accurate? 19 A 

### We have we have tried to 20 identify every point of influence possible 21 with this process, which includes developing 22 

### and enhancing standard procedures,

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1 disseminatingtrainingto front-line employees 2 throughour CertifiedStationTrainer Program, 3 partnering with other regional carriers in 4 partner standardization groups. We have 5 conducted numerous load audits. We've 6 enhanced the process that we previously used 7 to kind of know where we are with our load 8 counts. 9 I'm sure there's a lot of other 10 things that we've done, but those are probably 11 the big ones. 12 Q What have we done

-- now, that's 13 been with respect to our own employees, is 14 that correct? 15 A Yes. Some directly with our own 16 employees, and some of those did include 17 partnering over contract employees as well. 18 Q And so, in other words, you 19 invited United, and Delta, your code share 20 partners, to participate in your training. 21 A That's correct. We, actually, 22 developed the process for regional carriers

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433399 1 under that United And Delta. So, we've 2 enhanced that process significantly from what 3 it was prior to, and it was driven, primarily, 4 by Schist. 5 Q When you said you've, 

### " 6 developed the process for regional carriers 7

... ," so you developed the process, not just 8 for Schist code sharing of the mainline 9 employees, but for the process used by other 10 regional airlines working for the same 11 carriers? 12 A That's correct. We invested in 13 reallyevaluatingthe process, partneringwith 14 other carriers to learn best practices, and we 15 authored and standardized that process in 16 industry. 17 MR. DWORKIN: May I approach, Your 18 Honor? 19 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 20 BY MR. DWORKIN: 21 Q Mr. Barclay, I'm showing you wha.t 22 has been marked for identification as Exhibit

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433400 

### 1 R8. 2 

### (Whereupon, the document was 3 

### marked for identification as 4 

### Respondent's Exhibit R8.) 5 

### (Whereupon, the witness was proffered 6 

### the document.) 7 BY MR. 

### DWORKIN: 8 Q 

### What is that? 9 A 

### That's Customer Service Training 10 Bulletin2010/14, issuedNovember 9th of 2010. 11 Q 

### And, what was the purpose of this? 12 A 

### This was this bulletin was 13 released as a reminder of the current 14 designated loading agent procedures, or 15 responsibility of a loading agent to oversee 16 

### the loading of the aircraft. And, it also 17 outlines some of the risks that we had 18 observed through FAA 

### surveillance and our own 19 potential threats to the process that could, 20 potentially, result in error. 21 Q 

### And, this was disseminated to 22 whom?

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### 401

1 A 

### This was disseminated to our 2 Schist employees. 3 Q 

### Was it disseminated to any of the 4 mainline partners? 5 A 

### I don't recall that this one was. 6 It may or may not have been. 7 MR. DWORKIN: May I approach, Your 8 Honor? 9 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 10 BY MR. DWORKIN: 11 Q 

### I'm showing you what has been 12 marked as Exhibit R7. 13 

### (Whereupon, the document was 14 marked for identification as 15 

### Respondent's Exhibit No. R7.) 16 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 17 proffered the document.) 18 BY MR. DWORKIN: 19 Q 

### What is that? 20 A 

### This is a re-issue, or it's 21 entitled, "Ground Operations Bulletin 2011- 22 04," issued on April 7th in 2011.

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1 Q 

### Okay. And, I notice that the 2 applicability line at the top says, "A.ll 3 employees responsible for ground handling 4 

### Schist aircraft,o so was that intended for 5 just Schist, or was that intended for your 6 

### code share partners and their contractors as 7 well? 8 A 

### It was included for both Schist 9 and contract employees. 10 Q 

### So, in other words, the customer 11 service bulletin of 2011 was intended to be 12 more encompassing. 13 A 

### Correct. 14 

### MR. DWORKIN: Your Honor, I'd ask 15 that R7 and R8 be received. 16 

### MR. HARPER: No objection, Your 17 Honor. 18 JUDGE GOODWIN: R7 and 8 did you 19 ask for? 20 MR. DWORKIN: Yes. 21 JUDGE GOODWIN: R7 and 8 for 22 identification are received into evidence,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-4433403 

### 1 Respondent's 7 and 8. 2 

### (Whereupon, the documents that 3 

### were previously marked for 4 

### identification as Respondent's 5 

### Exhibits R7 and R8, were received 6 

### in evidence. ) 7 

### BY MR. DWORKIN: 8 Q 

### In connectim with Skywest's 9 

### investigation of these incidents, you 10 indicated that they have taken a number of 11 corrective actions, is that correct? 12 A 

### That's correct, yes. 13 Q 

### In connection with these 14 corrective actions, did Schist invite FAA 

### 15 participation? 16 A 

### We did, specifically, with our 17 Certified Station Trainer Conferences, which 18 we held annually during Q2 or Q3 of each year, 19 

### where they were invited to come and 20 participate, and even at times present their 21 findings and surveillance. 22 Q 

### And, did they participate and

NEAl R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433404 1 present? 2 A They did. 3 Q With respect to Skywest's 4 corrective actions, have you ever received any 5 FAA feedback as to the quality, the 6 presentation, or the completeness of the 7 presentation, or the comprehensiveneEE or 8 effectiveness of the presentation? 9 A They, obviously, would communicate 10 concern for the process. When they attended 11 the conferences, most of the feedback that we 12 received was always very positive. So, you 13 know, specific cite, I probably tell you exact 14 and from whom, but in general it was very 15 positive feedback. 16 Q And, when we say the FAA, we are 17 talking about what, the CMO? 18 A Correct, they would send either an 19 inspector or supervisor to attend. At times, 20 our principal operations inspector would 21 intend as well. 22 Q Did the FAA ever communicate to

NEAL R. GROSS (.202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-4433405 1 you or to anybody at Schist to your knowledge, 2 that Schist efforts were not enough, or 3 insufficient, or defective? 4 A Again, primarily, just concern 5 for, you know, the alleged violations at hand. 6 But, for the most part, we had monthly 7 telecons. If memory serves me correctly, we 8 had monthly telecons with them, explaining 9 what our corrective actions were in order, 10 made attempts to be very transparent, and 11 during those conversations we didn't receive 12 any negative feedback on those. 13 MR. DWORKIN: Your Honor, can I 14 have about two minutes. I just need to 15 assemble an exhibit. 16 JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 17 MR. DWORKIN: Okay. 18 JUDGE GOODWIN: Let's go off the 19 record. 20 (Whereupon, at 9:41a.m., a recess 21 until 9:44 a.m.) 22 JUDGE GOODWIN: Back on the record.

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1 

### MR. DWORKIN: Permission to 2 approach, Your Honor? 3 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 4 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 5 proffered the documents.) 6 BY MR. DWORKIN: 7 Q 

### Mr. Barclay, I've just given you 8 

### what has been marked for identification as 9 Exhibits R6-l, R6-2, and R6-3. 10 (Whereupon, the witness was 11 proffered the documents.) 12 (Whereupon, the documents were 13 

### marked for identification as 14 

### Respondent's Exhibit Nos. R6-l, R 15 

### 6-2 , and R6-3 . ) 16 BY MR. DWORKIN: 17 Q 

### What are these? 18 A 

### R6-l is a list of Weight and 19 Balance CorrectiveActions. R6··2 is the same, 20 basically, in a different format that we used 21 to communicatewith our CertificateManagement 22 Office, and R6-3 is a list of approximated

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### 1 weight and balance costs as a result of the 2 corrective actions. 3 Q 

### So, R6-1, are you the author of 4 

### that document? 5 A I 

### am. 6 Q 

### And, this identifies all of the 7 workshops, and training, and conferences that 8 Schist has conducted to correct the baggage 9 miscount situation? 10 A 

### It does. 11 Q 

### And, R6-2, did you author this as 12 well? 13 A 

### I did. 14 Q 

### And, this is what was presented to 15 the FAA CMO? 16 A 

### Correct. 17 Q 

### And, R6-3, you have Schist Weight 18 and Balance Corrective Action costs. Did you 19 prepare this as well? 20 A 

### I did. 21 Q 

### And, these costs look like they 22 began accruing in 2009, because you have a

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### 1 Certified Station Trainer Conference in 20097 2 A 

### Correct. 3 Q 

### And, the corrective action costs 4 go up through when, sir? 5 A 

### I believe the very last one is 6 based on our Basic Station Training through 7 

### March 31st of 2014. 8 Q 

### Okay. So, the total cost to 9 Schist Airlines for all of these corrective 10 actions since 2009 has been what? 11 A 

### We calculate a very conservative 12 approximate, it•s just over $560,000, and 13 that•s based on a prorated cost for our 14 Station Training Conferences and the 15 percentage that we focused on weight and 16 balance training. 17 Q 

### Okay. So, you have on the first 18 page of R6-3, you have an approximate total 19 cost of $842,942.88, and then your prorated it 20 to account for the baggage counting, baggage 21 loading issues. 22 A 

### Correct. Yes, we included the

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### 1 total known costs of the conference, and then 2 prorated them. 3 MR. DWORKIN: I'd ask that R6-1,

- 4 2, -3 be received. 5 

### MR. HARPER: No objection, Your 6 Honor. 7 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Respondent' s 6-1, 8 6-2 and 6-3 for identification are received 9 into evidence as Respondent's 6-1, 6-2 and 6- 10 3. 

### 11 (Whereupon, the documents that was 12 previously marked for 13 identification as Respondent's 14 

### Exhibit Nbs. R6-1, R6-2 and R6-3, 15 

### were received in evidence.) 16 BY MR. DWORKIN: 17 Q 

### Okay. So, after the expenditure 18 of all this money, and all these conferences 19 and training sessions, is it working? 20 A 

### That's a big question. We know 21 that there's awareness of this challenge. 22 We've seen increased collaboration and

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433410

1 

### communication from our front-line operations 2 when challenges arise. And, we've had a lot 3 of back and forthwith them on ways to enhance 4 

### the processes that we set out and designed. 5 Q 

### You say ".

. . when the challenges 6 

### arise

. . , " what challenges? 7 A 

### There are, obviously, human 8 

### factors that are involved in this process. 9 

### And so, errors do occur from time to time. 10 

### When they do occur, they are immediately 11 

### reportedinto the CustomerServiceDepartment. 12 Q 

### Were you here during the playback 13 

### of Mr. Salamone's deposition? 14 A 

### I was. 15 Q 

### In that deposition, you referred 16 

### to human factors and the aircraft ramp as 17 

### being a relativelyhostile environment. Have 18 

### you ever spent time on the ramp? 19 A 

### I have. 20 Q 

### Okay. And, 

### is the ramp a 21 

### relatively hostile environment? 22 A 

### Yes, there's a lot happening on

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1 the ramp, and the tempo is very fast. 2 Q Such as, what's happening? 3 A Depending on where you are, you 4 know, anywhere from a major hub to a medium5 sized or small station, there's different 6 activities going on. 7 In a hub environment, you've got 8 multiple baggage runners that are delivering 9 baggage and collecting baggage plane site. 10 You've got multiple aircraft that are being 11 dispatched out the gate. You've got multiple 12 aircraft that are arrivingand being serviced. 13 There's a lot of communication 14 that's happening between all of the work 15 groups to receive and dispatch the aircraft, 16 so that there's quite a bit of activity going 17 on. 18 Q How about how about 19 environmental conditions, weather, the 20 elements? 21 A Yes, I mean, just depending on 22 location, you can be any type of weather

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### 1 situation, unless lightning occurs, and then 2 they evacuate the ramp. But, you can be in 3 rain, snow, heat, wind, any type of weather 4 condition. 5 Q 

### And, is it noisy? 6 A 

### It's very noisy. 7 

### MR. DWORKIN: I have no further 8 

### questions, Your Honor. 9 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. Harper? 10 

### Do you need a few minutes, Mr. 11 Harper, or are you okay? 12 

### MR. HARPER: No, Your Honor, I 

### 13 think I can get there fairly readily. 14 CROSS EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. HARPER: 16 Q 

### Mr. Barclay, if I could ask you to 17 

### look at Exhibit R1-1. 18 

### A Okay. 19 Q 

### And, look to page 3-6, and I'd 20 

### like you to look at paragraph I4 right down 21 

### the middle of the page. That paragraph reads, 2 2 "Any 1 ive animals loaded must be noted on the

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433413 

### 1 COR,• correct? 2 A 

### That's correct. 3 Q 

### And, if you could turn with me to 4 page 3-8, and if you could look at paragraph 5 3E, and I'd like to look at the last sentence 6 of that paragraph which reads,• The PIC is 7 responsible for revisingthe load manifest and 8 notifying Station Operations of any changes 9 prior to leaving the ramp area,• correct? 10 A 

### Correct. 11 Q 

### And, that's changes to the load 12 manifest, correct? 13 A Correct. 14 Q 

### If you could turn to page 4-8, if 15 you could look at paragraph 7E(1) (g). That 16 paragraph reads, "Correct both copies of the 17 COR whenever the flight deck crew allows 18 changes to a two-part COR,• correct? 19 A 

### Correct. 20 Q 

### Paragraph

-- I'm sorry, page 4-9, 21 paragraph F, looking at the last sentence, 22 "Any approved changes must be made to the COR,

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### 1 both the white and yellow copies when a two2 part COR is used, and load manifest. 3 Communicationbetween groundperson on the PIC 4 must confirm changes made are reflected 5 accuratelyon all documents," is that correct? 6 A 

### Yes, that's correct. And again, I 7 explained there's conditions, based on the 8 door being open and closed. 9 Q 

### But, at the end of the day, the 10 loadmanifest has to correct what's, actually, 11 on board the aircraft. 12 A 

### Correct. That's correct. 13 Q 

### And, the CORs have to be reflected 14 --changed to reflect any last-minute changes, 15 correct? 16 A 

### Correct. 17 Q Mr. 

### Barclay, you testified a 18 little bit about how ground handling is 19 contracted out, and that Schist is one of the 20 companies that bids on those contracts. 21 

### I trust you know that no matter 22 who handles the ground handling, Schist was

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433415 1 still the operator of all these flights, 2 correct? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q If you could turn with me to 5 Exhibit R2-1. 6 MR. HARPER: And, for the record, 7 has this exhibit been admitted? 8 JUDGE GOODWIN: Which one? 9 MR. HARPER: Exhibit R2-1. I don't 10 show that it was, but I wanted to see. 11 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes, I show that 12 yes, I've got it marked as received. 13 BY MR. HARPER: 14 Q If you could turn to the last page 15 of that document, page 6 of 6, and if you 16 could just look at, there's a note in the 17 middle of that page, and it reads, "Once the 18 load manifest has been completed, any changes 19 to the aircraft load configuration is at the 20 discretion and approval of the PIC. The PIC 21 is responsible for revising the load manifest 22 and notifying Station Operations of any

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·4433416 1 changes prior to leaving the ramp area," is 2 that correct? 3 A Correct. 4 Q And, right below that there's a 5 part that reads, "Warning, inaccurate loading 6 reporting, or failure to report information, 7 can cause issues with aircraft performance and 8 handling, resulting in the endangerment of 9 human life," correct? 10 A Correct. 11 MR. HARPER: If you could just give 12 me a moment. 13 JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 14 BY MR. HARPER: 15 Q If you could turn with me to 16 Exhibit R8. 17 A Okay. 18 Q And, if you could just confirm 19 that this document was issued on 9 November, 20 2010, correct? 21 A Correct. 22 Q And, that predates all of the

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1 flights that we were discussinghere yesterday 2 and today, correct? 

### 3 A I 4 Q I think the earliest flight at 5 issue today was March 3, 2011. 6 A Okay. If that's accurate, then 7 yes. 8 Q If you could turn with me to the 9 last page of that document, paragraph E, that 10 reads, "Any change to the aircraft load 11 configuration, once the loadmanifest has been 12 completed, is at the discretion and approval 13 of the PIC. The PIC is responsible for 14 revising the load manifest and notifying 15 Station Operations of any changes prior to 16 leaving the ramp area." Did I get that right? 17 A Correct. 18 Q I'd like you to look now at 19 Exhibit R7, and if you could just verify that 20 the date on the top is 7 April, 2011. 21 A It is. 22 Q And, that creates some of the

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433418 

### 1 violations that we are discussing here today, 2 correct? 3 A 

### Correct. 4 Q 

### I believe the latest violation we 5 are discussing is November 16, 2011. 6 A 

### Okay. 7 Q 

### If you could turn with me to 8 Exhibit R6-1. 9 A 

### Okay. 10 Q 

### And, just going through here, 11 everythingon the first. page occurred in 2010, 12 correct? 13 A 

### Correct. 14 Q 

### Again, before all the violations 15 we are discussing here today. 16 A 

### Correct. 17 Q 

### And, if you turn to page two, it 18 looks like most of the items on this page were 19 done in 2010 or early 2011, again, before the 20 violations we are discussing today, correct? 21 A 

### Correct. 22 Q 

### With the possible exception,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·4433419 1 communicationfor pilots in training, that ran 2 through April, 2011, so maybe a couple of the 3 violations occurred before that was an issue. 4 A Correct. 5 Q On page three, it looks like all 6 of those things were also in 2011, before or 7 around the time that the violations in these 8 cases were occurring, correct? 9 A Correct. 10 Q And, it's not until we get to page 11 four towards the bottom, where we start having 12 contract station aircraft loading calls, 13 designating loading agent arm bands, basic 14 station training, initial classes on weight 15 and balance training, where we are really 16 looking anything done by Schist after the 17 violations occurred, clearly after that. 18 A Correct. 19 Q If you could look now at Exhibit 20 R6-3. Well, actually, let's look at R6-1. 21 The CST Conference Weight and 22 Balance Workshops you talked about on the

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433420 1 first page that was one course of training, 2 one block of training, at the conference, it 3 wasn't the entire conference, correct? 4 A Correct. 5 Q The conference would have been 6 held even if that course hadn't been offered, 7 correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Q How about the conference in 2010, 10 Weight and BalanceWorkshop, but again, that's 11 only one workshop at that conference, right? 12 A There were multiple workshops that 13 were given for a specified audience. 14 Q And so, that conference would have 15 been held, ln any event, there were other 16 things discussed at the conference, the 17 conference was still going to be held. 18 A That's correct. 19 Q I believe, let me see here if I 20 got. this date correctly, that in 2009 you got 21 a Master's in Business Administration? 22 A I did.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433421 1 Q So, you are familiar with the 2 concept of Sunk cost, correct? 3 A Sunk cost, I've heard the term 4 before. 5 Q If you have a Master's in Business 6 Administration, you understand basic 7 accounting principles, correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Q You understand sunk cost is a cost 10 that's expended anyway, and so you don't 11 calculate it, you don't factor it into yom:· 12 cost benefit analysis, because the money is 13 gone, would you agree with that? 14 A Per your definition, yes. 15 Q So, if the conferences were being 16 held anyway, essentially, that's a sunk cost 17 for Schist Airlines in relation to the Weight 18 and Balance Program, correct? People are 19 going to be there anyway, you can prorate i.t, 20 but if you weren't discussing weight and 21 balance you would be discussing something 22 else, correct?

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1 A 

### I'd have to disagree. You know, 2 this was one of the main driving factors of 3 

### the conferences. And so, we get a list of 4 topics together that we feel are pertinent to 5 

### the operation, and

-- 6 Q 

### I'm sorry, you said it was one of 7 the main driving factors for the conferences, 8 

### can you look at R6-3? 9 A 

### Okay. 10 Q 

### In 2009, it looks like at best 11 weight and balance was 10 percent of the 12 conference, according to your cost 13 declarations. 14 A 

### That's correct. 15 Q 

### It wasn't until 2011 where it even 16 became the majority of the conference, and 17 even then only 60 percent, correct? 18 A 

### Correct. 19 Q 

### Now, Mr. Barclay, one of the 20 things you testified that Schist is doing in 21 an effort to get ahead of this problem is you 22 are continuingto conduct audits of the Weight

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### 1 and Balance Program. Isn't it true that those 2 audits show that there is still an issue with 3 weight and balance, these sorts of issues on 4 Schist aircraft today? 5 A 

### There are errors that do occur, 6 that's correct. 7 Q 

### And, one of the questions Mr. 8 Dworkin asked was, I want to make sure I get 9 this right, is it working, is all this stuff 10 working, wouldn't you say that there may be 11 improvementsbeing made, but at the end of the 12 day you just told us that Schist still has 13 problems and issues that it's not working, 14 because you still have the problem. 15 MR. DWORKIN: Objection, is that a 16 question? 17 MR. HARPER: Yes, it is. 18 MR. DWORKIN: Oh, I thought it was 19 testimony. 20 

### JUDGE GOODI'l"IN: Overruled. You can 21 answer if you can. 22 THE WITNESS: Okay. Can you

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### 1 restate the question for me? 2 BY MR. HARPER: 3 Q 

### Well, you just testified that 4 Schist is still having these sorts of issues, 5 correct? 6 A 

### Correct. 7 Q 

### Even today, as we are sitting in 8 the courtroom, there is a possibility that 9 Schist aircraft on the ramp is being loaded 10 incorrectly, the cargo load report and load 11 manifest are incorrect, right? 12 A 

### It's possible. 13 Q 

### So, wouldn't you say that all of 14 these things that Schist has done have not, 15 actually, fixed the issue? 16 A If fixing the issue is perfection, 17 then my response would be no. 18 Q 

### Thank you. 19 

### MR. HARPER: No further questions. 20 

### REDIRECT EXAMINATION 21 

### BY MR. DWORKIN: 22 Q 

### Mr. Barclay, there is still human

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433425 

### 1 error, is that correct? 2 A There is. 3 Q 

### And, no amount of training can get 4 rid of simple human error, correct? 5 A 

### Probably not. 6 Q 

### With respect to Exhibits R6-1, -2, 7 -3, the corrective action started in 2009. 8 These cases, which are the subject of the 9 hearing today, started in March of 2011. Why 10 were corrective actions being taken as early 11 as 2009? 12 A 

### Obviously, there were previous 13 cases that were involved, but we, again, were 14 trying to get our arms wrapped around, you 15 know, alleged violations by taking action, 16 getting out into the operation, taking a 17 serious look at the current process that was 18 in place, any ways that we could enhance our 19 training or direction to our employees. 20 Q 

### And, what was the disposition of 21 those previous cases, were they settled with 22 the FAA?

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433426 

### 1 A 

### Some I believe some of them 2 were, and then others were in a hearing, such 3 as what we are doing today. 4 Q 

### Okay. 5 

### MR. DWORKIN: No further questions. 6 

### MR. HARPER: No redirect or 7 recross. 8 JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, I am going to 9 instruct you not to discuss your testimony 10 with anybody prior to the conclusion of the 11 hearing. You may step down and check with Mr. 12 Dworkin, you may or may not be excused. 13 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 14 excused. ) 15 MR. DWORKIN: Yes. 16 Jay Christensen, please. 17 JUDGE GOODWIN: Please be seated, 18 state your name for the record and spell your 19 first and last name. 20 

### MR. CHRISTENSEN: My name is J·ay 21 Christensen, J-A-Y C-H-R-I-S-T-E-N-S-E-N. 22 DIRECT EXAMINATION

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1 

### BY MR. DWORKIN: 2 Q 

### Mr. Christensen, what is your 3 employment? 4 A 

### I am the Manager of Customer 5 

### Service Ground Operations Training, with 6 

### Schist Airlines. 7 Q 

### And, how long have you held that 8 

### position? 9 A 

### I've been in that position since 10 September of 2010. 11 Q 

### And, what was your employment 12 prior to September of 2010, with Schist? 13 A 

### Yes. I've been with Schist since 14 September of 2003. 15 Q 

### So, immediately prior to your 16 present position, what was your position at 17 Schist? 18 A 

### I was a Supervisor over CS Ground 19 Operations Training from January of 2008. 20 Q 

### And, what were your duties and 21 responsibilities in that position? 22 A 

### As the supervisor, primarily, I

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433428 

### 1 oversaw the development of the various 2 training that we were putting together in my 3 

### department. So, that would include the 4 

### training modules for initial new hire 5 

### training, and also a lot of computer-based 6 

### training, getting the bulk of the material put 7 

### together for developers. 8 Q 

### Would that include aircraft 9 

### loading? 10 A 

### Yes, it does. 11 Q 

### Okay. And, prior to 2008, what 12 was your employment? 13 A 

### Prior to that, I came into the 14 

### Training Department ln March of 2005, that's 15 where I began as an Instructor, Customer 16 

### Service Ground Operations Training, and then 17 

### prior to that I worked on the ramp as a Ramp 18 Agent in Salt Lake City. 19 Q 

### So, you, actually, have ramp 20 experience. 21 A I 

### do. 22 Q 

### Is the ramp -- there has been some

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1 

### testimony that the ramp can be a hostile 2 environment. Is it a hostile environment? 3 A 

### Yes. I mean, it's when you 4 define hostile as, there's just a million 5 

### things going on all at the same time, and 6 

### very, very chaotic, that's a good way I would 7 

### explain it. 8 Q 

### How about environmental factors? 9 A 

### Yes, you can work in just about 10 

### any weather conditions. As Jeremy Barclay 11 

### testified rain, snow, sleet, extremely hot 12 

### temperatures. 13 Q 

### How about life conditions? 14 A 

### You can work daytime, nighttime, 15 

### sometimes visibility can be definitely 16 impaired. 17 Q 

### How about noise? 18 A 

### Very noisy environment. 19 Typically, you know, we will be wearing ear 20 plugs most of the day. 21 Q 

### And, that was your ramp 22 experience, your ramp agent position, was your

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433430 

### 1 initial positionwith Schist, is that correct? 2 A 

### That is correct. 3 Q 

### Okay. Any aviation employment 4 prior to Schist? 5 A 

### No. 6 Q 

### Okay. Can you tell us something 7 about your education? 8 A 

### I've attended college for, 9 

### approximately, four, four to five years. I 

### 10 didn't receive a degree, but I attended 11 college from pretty much 1988 to about 1993. 12 Q 

### As the Manager of Customer Service 13 Compliance and Standards, what are your 14 principal duties and responsibilities? 15 A 

### That title actually, 16 incorrect. 17 Q 

### Oh, I'm sorry. 18 A 

### I'm the Manager of CS, Customer 19 Service, Ground Operations Training. 20 Q 

### Customer Service Ground Operations 21 Training. What are your principal duties and 22 responsibilities?

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### 1 A 

### Well, I oversee the ramp or CS 2 ground operations training and policy and 3 

### procedure. That entails overseeing our 4 initial new hire training, which we call Basic 5 

### Station Training. But also, we oversee the 6 CST program, or Certified Station Trainer 7 

### program. And, pretty much anything ramp 8 operations related, which would include de9 icing, weight and balance, that sort of thing. 10 Q 

### And, when you refer to CS, you are 11 talking about Customer Service. 12 A 

### Customer Service, yes. 13 Q 

### Okay. Now, you, basically, have 14 the position today that Mr. Barclay had up 15 through about 2011, before assuming his 16 present position, is that correct? 17 A 

### That is correct. 18 Q 

### And, what, if any, involvement 19 have you had with these cases that bring us 20 here together today? 21 A 

### Well, it's kind of interesting, 2 2 because Jeremy and I, I mean, we shared a lot

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234·4433432 1 

### of the load. He was the primary person 2 

### involved in getting the procedures together, 3 writing them, but then I would kind of take it 4 

### to the next step and, actually, get them 5 

### inserted into our manuals. 6 

### When Jeremy left the manager 7 

### positionas CustomerServiceTrainingManager, 8 

### and moved into Compliance, he took a lot of 9 

### that with him, but I 

### continued to update our 10 

### manuals, primarily, standard practice, SP 11 5500, 

### for the Station Operations Manual, and 12 

### then also SP 4100, 

### the Weight and Balance 13 

### Operations Manual. So, I 

### did continue to 14 

### oversee those after Jeremy left. 15 Q 

### Okay. So, would it be fair to say 16 

### that subsequent to the manuals which are 17 

### already in evidence, there were additional 18 

### revisions to those manuals? 19 A 

### Yes, that is correct. 20 Q 

### And, the revisions were for what 21 

### purpose? 22 A 

### Well, in my position, I'm

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433433

1 constantly striving to improve our processes 2 and procedures. So, I, typically, have a 3 revision that is in the works at some point, 4 either close to publishing it, or just 5 starting it out, or at some step in between 6 there, but we are constantly revising our 7 procedures and trying to make them better. 8 Q So, with respect to weight and 9 balance training, have you implemented any 10 changes in the training given to customer 11 service agents and ground servicepersonnel in 12 loading and weight and balance? 13 A Yes, that's been 

### a constant 14 improvement, pretty much from the time we 15 started to hear of these cases, knowing that 16 there were issues out there in the station, 17 and some of these alleged violations. 18 We expanded our training 19 curriculumsubstantially. We startedabout 45 20 of training back early when I was in the 21 Department, which pretty much included how to 22 fill out a CLR, or cargo load report. We

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433434 1 expanded that to two hours, then expanded it 2 to four hours. 3 Q And, this is initial training for 4 new hires? 5 A And, this is initial training for 6 new hires that have come in to Customer 7 Service. 8 Q And, do you provide recurrent 9 training? 10 A We do have recurrent training that 11 does talk about weight and balance as well, 12 yes. 13 Q And, what, if any, changes have 14 been made to SP 4100 under your supervision? 15 A For that manual, we just to 16 help agents out, as they are completingweight 17 and balance, we've added some additional 18 examples of how a completed cargo load report 19 would look, that's accurate. 20 Q And, how about with respect to the 21 Station Operations Manual, SP 5500, what, if 22 any, changes have you made to that?

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 132.3 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·4433435 1 A Well, Jeremy testified to a couple 2 of the things that we've done, and mostly it's 3 recommended best practices that we've enacted 4 that we felt would help with communicatingthe 5 correct weight and balance. One of those is 

### 6 the verbal verificationof the 

### CLR contents to 7 the pilot in command, or we'll, actually, go 8 on board the plane and communicate the numbers 

### 9 that we've written down for the 

### CLR. 10 And then, we've also added the 11 tally sheet on the back, as a recommendedbest 12 practice, that the company could keep count. 13 Q So, have you completed these 14 improvements, or is this an ongoing process? 15 A The improvements we talked about 16 have been completed, but i.t's an ongoing 17 process as far as finding new and better ways 18 of doing this. 19 Q Is there anything else that Schist 20 could possiblydo to prevent recurrence of the 21 matters that are the subject of this 22 proceeding?

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1 A 

### You know, I mean, I think we are 2 constantly strivingto get better·, and I think 3 we've done, in my mind to this point, we've 4 done everything we possibly can do, and, you 5 know, we'll continue to strive to get better, 6 but I don't think so. 7 Q 

### Because of the human factor? 8 A 

### Exactly. 9 

### MR. DWORKIN: No further questions. 10 

### Thank you. 11 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. Harper? 12 

### CROSS EXAMINATION 13 

### BY MR. HARPER: 14 Q 

### Mr. Christensen, I believe you 15 said you started off at Schist working on the 16 ramp? 17 A 

### That is correct. 18 Q 

### Wouldn't it be true that working 19 on the ramp one of the things that makes it a 20 hostile environment, as we've referred to 21 

### repeatedly today, is that there's time 22 pressure to get everything done quickly, get

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-4433437 

### 1 the aircraft pushed for an on-time departure? 2 A 

### I would say that's correct. 3 Q 

### Okay. 4 

### MR. HARPER: I have no further 5 questions. 6 

### MR. DWORKIN: No redirect, Your 7 Honor. 8 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, I'm going to 9 instruct you not to discuss your testimony 10 with anybody prior the conclusion of the 11 hearing. 12 

### You may step down, and it's 13 subject to Counsel as to whether or not you 14 will be excused. 15 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 16 excused. ) 17 JUDGE GOODWIN: Where are we? 18 

### MR. DWORKIN: I have one more 19 witness. This would probably be a good time 20 for a short break. 21 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Why don't we do 22 

### that. Let's -- I've got

-- you have your

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433438 1 choice of times, we are moving along, I've got 2 10:16, let's take about a 15 minute break and 3 go back on the record. 4 Off the record. 5 (Whereupon, at 10:16 a.m., 

### a 6 recess until 10:43 a.m.) 7 JUDGE GOODWIN: Back on the record. 8 Please, be seated. 9 State your full name for the 10 record, and spell your first and last name. 11 MS. AIKEN: Maggi, -A-G-G-I, Aiken, 12 A-I-K-E-N. 13 Whereupon, 14 MAGGI AIKEN 15 was called as a witness by the Respondent, and 16 having been first duly sworn, testified as 17 follows: 18 DIRECT EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. DWORKIN: 20 Q Good morning, Ms. Aiken. 21 A Good morning. 22 Q What is your employment?

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1 A 

### I'm Director of Customer Service 2 Training and Standards. 3 Q 

### For? 4 A 

### Schist Airlines. 5 Q 

### And, how long have you had this 6 position? 7 A 

### Since, approximately, 1987-88. 8 Q 

### What was your prior employment? 9 A 

### I was a Station.Manager of a small 10 

### station, and a Station Agent. 11 Q 

### For Schist? 12 A 

### Yes. 13 Q 

### And, do you have any aviation 14 experience or aviation employment other than 15 your employment with Schist Airlines? 16 A 

### No. I've been with them 3 3 years. 17 Q 

### Could you tell us something about 18 your education post high school? 19 A 

### I have an undergrad degree in 20 Education, and a Master's degree from Embry21 

### Riddle in Business and Aviation Aerospace. 22 Q 

### And, your undergraduate degree is

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### 1 from which institution? 2 A 

### Embry-Riddle. Oh, the undergrad? 3 Q 

### Yes. 4 A 

### I'm sorry. Central Washington 5 University, Washington State. 6 Q 

### As Director of Customer Service 7 Training and Standards for Schist, what are 8 your principal duties and responsibilities? 9 A 

### I'm responsible for all of the 10 customer service training, both above and 11 below wing, and all standards, which include 12 all the manuals for customer service, for 13 policy procedure, working with our partners, 14 and standardization and so forth. 15 Q 

### And, when you say 

### " working 16 with our partners ... , " what do you mean? 17 A 

### Delta Airlines, United Airlines, 18 Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, and U.S. 19 Air. 20 Q 

### So, the trunks with whom you code 21 share. 22 A 

### Yes.

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1 Q 

### And, so that the record is clear, 2 when you talk about training above wing and 3 

### below wing, what do you mean by those terms? 4 A 

### Above wing 

### is, predominantly, 5 

### customer service agents who are at the ticket. 6 

### counter and the gate. Below wing is all ramp 7 

### personnel. 8 Q 

### Do you have any involvement with 9 

### the cases that bring us here together today? 10 A I 

### do. 11 Q 

### And, what is or was your 12 

### involvement in these cases? 13 A 

### Overseeing the standards for 14 

### customer service, I have a staff who does the 15 

### training, also responds to the letters of 16 

### investigation, and then I usually sign off on 17 

### them. I'm also responsible for enacting 18 

### policies, procedures, training, that would fit 19 

### our needs as an operator. 20 Q 

### Now, you were present this morning 21 

### when Mr. Barclay testified? 22 A 

### Yes.

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1 Q And, he testified to certain 2 corrective actions that Schist undertook, as 3 early as 2009, and which they are taking up 4 through the present time. 5 Do you agree with that testimony? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Okay. What was the reason for 8 initiating these corrective actions back in 9 2009? 10 A Well, as an airline, as an 11 operator, we want to be compliant with policy, 12 procedure and the regulations. We interface 13 with our CMO, and they have requested-- they 14 made a statement to us that they will hold us 15 to very high standards as a regional carrier, 16 because we are a very large carrier. 17 And so, I want to be complaint. I 18 want to be held to 

### a high standard. I want to 19 be the best in the industry, so I try to 20 reflect that down throughmy group in training 21 to be compliant. 22 Q What is does Schist have a

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### 1 corporate philosophy regarding training? 2 A 

### To be one of the best in the 3 

### industry. 4 Q 

### Okay. And, as Director of 5 Customer Service Training with Schist, have 6 you had a chance to

-- or had the opportunity 7 to compare notes with your counterparts at 8 other regional airlines? 9 A 

### Always

-- always do. We are very 10 highly regarded in the industry. 11 Q 

### And, on the basis of your 12 

### conversations with your counterparts ln 13 

### industry, how would you regard Skywest's 14 

### training compared to other air carriers? 15 A 

### We have a very quality training 16 program, and have had people come from other 17 airlines and tell us so, that we go above and 18 beyond in a lot of the training, compared to 19 what they had received at other carriers. 20 Q 

### So, when you say ".

. . people come 21 

### from other airlines 

### " have you had ' • • I 

### 22 occasion to train other airlines?

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234·4433444

1 A 

### We do. We've had other airlines 2 send their people to we offer United 3 

### Airlines classes. We've had people pay to 4 send them to both our above and below wings 5 

### classes, and we've done some training for 6 

### Delta as well. 7 Q 

### What is Skywest's corporate 8 

### philosophy regarding compliance with Federal 9 

### Aviation Regulations? 10 A 

### It's non-negotiable. I mean, 11 

### their expectation is that they are compliant. 12 Q 

### Now, Schist, as an air carrier, is 13 

### responsible for what goes on with its 14 

### airplanes, is that correct? 15 A 

### Yes. 16 Q 

### In the real world, in Skywest's 17 

### present system with its code shares, does 18 

### Schist, through Skywest's own personnel, load 19 

### Schist airplanes all the time? 20 A 

### No. The environment has changed 21 

### considerably since I 

### started with the 22 airlines. They used to handle 100 

### percent of

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433445 

### 1 our aircraft ground handle, and today we only 2 probably handle in the neighborhood of 20 to 3 30 percent of our operations. 4 Q 

### And, who is handling the other 70 5 

### to 80 

### percent? 6 A 

### There are probably in the 7 

### neighborhoodof 15

-- somewhere between 15 and 8 

### 20 

### other ground handlers out there who touch 9 our aircraft. 10 

### MR. DWORKIN: Permission to 11 approach, Your Honor. 12 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 13 BY MR. DWORKIN: 14 Q 

### Ms. Aiken, I'm showing you what's 15 been marked for identificationas Exhibit R9. 16 

### (Whereupon, the document was 17 

### marked for identification 18 

### as Exhibit No. R9.) 19 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 20 proffered the document.) 21 BY MR. DWORKIN: 22 Q 

### In other words, these cases?

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1 A 

### These cases. 2 Q 

### Okay. And so, you have the case 3 number, and I guess the first four characters 4 

### are the last four digits of the DMS number, 5 

### and the second two digits are the last two 6 

### digits of the FAA case number, is that 7 

### correct? 8 A 

### I believe so. 9 Q 

### Okay. And then, you list the 10 flight numbers in the second column, the 11 

### route, and then you list loading agent, is 12 that correct? 13 A 

### Yes, the responsible vendor, 14 ground handler. 15 Q 

### Okay. So, for instance, as an 16 example, in Case 0869/72, involving a flight 17 from Houston to ColoradoSprings, Flight 1160, 18 that aircraft was loaded by Continental. 19 A 

### It was. 20 Q 

### And, going, let's see, second from 21 the bottom, FAA case, or DMS Case 0873, FAA 22 case ending with 63, Flight 756 from 0'

### Hare to

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### 1 Colorado Springs, that aircraft was loaded by 2 United Airlines, is that correct? 3 A It 

### is. 4 Q 

### And, actually, of all these cases, 5 

### there's only one that was loaded by Schist, is 6 

### that correct? 7 A 

### I believe there's two on there. 8 Q 

### Oh, I see, okay, yes, Denver to 9 

### FSD, that is what? 10 A 

### Sioux Falls. 11 Q 

### Sioux Falls. And, Denver to Rock 12 

### Springs? 13 A 

### Right. 14 Q 

### Is that correct? 15 

### MR. DWORKIN: I'd ask that R9 

### be 16 

### received, Your Honor. 17 

### MR. HARPER: Objection, relevance, 18 

### unless Schist is contending they didn't have 19 

### operational control of these flights. 20 

### MR. DWORKIN: No, we are not 21 

### contending that we didn't have operational 22 control, but

--

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433448

1 

### MR. HARPER: Then I don't see 2 how/who handled the flights of the underlying 3 contracts has any relevance at all to Schist 4 

### Airlines' liability. 5 

### MR. DWORKIN: It certainly 6 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Overruled, the 7 

### exhibit will be admitted. Respondent's 9 for 8 

### identification is admitted as Respondent's 9. 9 (Whereupon, the document that was 10 

### previously marked for 11 

### identification as Respondent's 12 

### R9, was received in evidence.) 13 

### BY 

### MR. DWORKIN: 14 Q 

### Have you been involved in 15 

### communicationswith the FAA 

### concerning these, 16 

### what in common parlance have been known as 17 

### "heavy back" cases? 18 A 

### Yes. 19 Q 

### Did

-- how long have been engaged 20 in conversations with the FAA 

### regarding these 21 

### cases? 22 A. 

### Since probably just prior to our

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433449 

### 1 last round, maybe a little bit before. 2 Certainly, since 2009, perhaps, before. 3 Q 

### Okay. As 

### the Director of 4 Training, with respect to weight and balance 5 in aircraft loading, what is the training 6 intended to do? 7 A 

### To teach our people how to load 8 the aircraft, and to ensure we run a safe 9 operation, to teach them how to be best 10 agents. 11 Q 

### What, if anything, is the training 12 intended to do with respect to human factors? 13 A 

### To minimize the human factors, 14 

### certainly. Due to the number of people 15 handling our aircraft, we do, with our own 16 people, the best that we can do ln our 17 training to minimize that, because we know 18 it's going to happen, we teach them the right 19 way to handle and load the aircraft. 20 Q 

### In connection with instances in 21 which other air carriers act as the loading 22 agent, when there have been discrepancies ln

NEAL 

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433450 1 baggage counts, what, if anything, has Schist 2 done with respect to those other carriers? 3 A In the last few years, every 4 airline had a different weight and balance 5 program flying carrier, and you would have a 6 ground handler who handled multiple carriers, 7 and would have to learn the various weight and 8 balance programs. 9 Working with our partners over the 10 last few years, we have attempted to 11 standardize the loading process with respect 12 to the CLR, because that would help minimize 13 the various forms that they would have to 14 complete and the different ways they would 15 have to be completed, if we had one form which 16 standardized the training for the loading of 17 that aircraft. 18 The form has changed over the last 19 few years to accommodate different aircraft 20 types, and we are down to probably three or 21 four carriers who still have

-- maybe five who 22 still have their own version of ACLR. Most

NEAL 

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433451

1 everybodyhas adopted the same, and I think we 2 have seen some improvement in the loading 3 process because of that standardization. And, 4 we continue to push with using it with a 5 couple three of the other carriers. 6 Q When a bag count on a CLR for 7 whatever reason is incorrect, is that, 8 necessarily, the result of lack of training? 9 A No. I can't speak for other 10 carriers, but, no, I don't we have a 11 standard process that we've all agreed to. 12 And, I'm sure that given, as stated in prior 13 testimony, the environmental conditions, the 14 tasks at hand can affect, play into human 15 factors. 16 Q In your conversations with the FAA 17 when they indicated that they counted bags 18 coming off the airplane, have they ever 19 admitted that they even miscounted? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Now, in response to the FAA's 22 investigations into these matters, Schist has

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### 1 received letters of investigation from the 2 FAA, is that correct? 3 A 

### Yes. 4 Q 

### Were those letters of 5 investigation responded to? 6 A 

### Yes. 7 Q 

### And, were those responses written 8 by you? 9 A 

### Not all of them. I usually had my 10 name on them and approved them, but Mr. 11 Barclay responded to some and/or another 12 individual who worked for me. 13 Q 

### But, the responses were made under 14 your supervision. 15 A 

### Right. 16 Q 

### And, your review? 17 A 

### Yes. 18 Q 

### Okay. And, when the responses 19 were submitted at the time you believed that 20 they were true and correct responses? 21 A 

### Yes. 22 MR. DWORKIN: May I approach, Your

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433453 

### 1 Honor? 2 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 3 BY MR. DWORKIN: 4 Q 

### Ms. Aiken, I'm showing you what 5 

### has been marked as Exhibit R10. 6 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 7 proffered the document.) 8 

### (Whereupon, the document was 9 

### marked for identification 10 as Respondent's Exhibit No. R10.) 11 BY MR. DWORKIN: 12 Q 

### What is this, or what are they? 13 A 

### Responses to letters of 14 investigation. 15 Q 

### And, they are over your signature? 16 A 

### Yes. 17 MR. DWORKIN: I'd ask that R10 be 18 received, Your Honor. 19 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: Do you want a 20 minute to review it, Mr. Harper? 21 MR. HARPER: No objection. 22 JUDGE GOODWIN: Respondent• s 10 for

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### 1 identification is received in evidence as 2 Respondent's 10. 3 (Whereupon, the document that was 4 

### previously marked for 5 

### identification as Respondent's 6 

### Exhibit R10, was received in 7 

### evidence.) 8 

### MR. DWORKIN: I have no further 9 questions. 10 Thank you, Your Honor. 11 Thank you, Ms. Aiken. 12 CROSS EXAMINATION 13 BY MR. HARPER: 14 Q 

### Ms. Aiken, if you could look at 15 Exhibit R9. Schist Airlines operated all of 16 those flights, correct? 17 A 

### Yes. 18 Q 

### Schist Airlines had operational 19 control over all those flights. 20 A 

### The flying, yes. 21 Q 

### So, in other words, Schist 22 Airlines was responsible for the safe content

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433455 

### 1 of all those flights. 2 A 

### In accordance with regulation, 3 yes. 4 Q 

### Schist was the responsible party 5 for the operation of those flights. 6 A 

### In accordance with regulation, 7 yes. 8 MR. HARPER: No further questions. 9 

### MR. DWORKIN: No redirect, Your 10 Honor, and that concludes Respondent's case. 11 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: I am going to 12 instruct the witness, you are not to discuss 13 your testimony with anybody prior to the 14 conclusion of the hearing. 15 You are free to step down. 16 

### (Whereupon, the witness was 17 excused. ) 18 JUDGE GOODWIN: So, Mr. Harper, do 19 you have a rebuttal? Do you want a couple 20 minutes to think about it? 21 MR. HARPER: No rebuttal, Your 22 Honor.

NEAL 

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·4433456

1 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. So, that 2 concludes the case. 3 MR. DWORKIN: Yes, it does, Your 4 Honor. 5 JUDGE GOODWIN: That means our 6 court reporter now has to go back to smoky 7 California. 8 Do the two of you want the 9 opportunity to brief? 10 MR. HARPER: Yes. 11 MR. DWORKIN: Yes, Your Honor. 12 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. Why don't we 13 do this. I'm not led to a schedule on 14 briefing, you know that my usual rule of thumb 15 is, you know, 30 days, 15 and 7. I don't know 16 what either one of your schedules are. I 17 think you and I are going to be together in 18 June, Mr. Dworkin, in Dallas. 19 Mr. Harper, when you get the 20 transcript, why don't you talk to Mr. Dworkin, 21 both of you have been gentlemen throughout the 22 trial. And, let me just say, I think both of

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433457 1 you are excellent contentious attorneys, but 2 it•s a pleasure to see two professionals, 3 conducting themselves as you two have done 4 over the last couple of days. It makes my job 5 easier, and I think you both are a credit to 6 the profession. 7 So, having said that, Mr. Harper, 8 when you get the transcript and once you•ve 9 talked to Mr. Dworkin and Mr. Emerson, you two 10 work out the briefing schedule. 11 MR. HARPER: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay? And, I •m 13 serious, I don't care what it is, because I 14 told you, I'm backed up now. If you get it 15 done in 30 days, fine, if you get it done by 16 September that's fine. 17 You two work that out, and then as 18 you get into the schedule and if you run into 19 a problem shoot me an email. 20 I say that, having found out 21 yesterday I •m locked out of my office computer 22 again. So, if you send me an email on

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433458 

### 1 something, and you don't get a response, Pat 2 always know what the status is, and we can 3 always

-- Mr. Harper, you've got my personal 4 email, and you probably do, too, Mr. Dworkin, 5 so don't be embarrassed to use that if you 6 need to. 7 

### So, is there anything else we need 8 to do? 9 

### MR. HARPER: I don't believe so, 10 Your Honor. 11 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 12 MR. DWORKIN: I don't think so, 13 Your Honor. 14 

### MR. HARPER: With the possible 15 exception, we usually go through to make sure 16 we are all on the same page as to what's been 17 

### admitted and not admitted. I believe there 18 was one exhibit we were going to get a clear 19 copy. 20 MR. DWORKIN: R5-5, yes. 21 JUDGE GOODWIN: Why don't we do 22 this. Once I go off the record, Mr. Harper,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·4433459 1 I' 11 put the binder up here, and you and Mr. 2 Dworkin can go through making notes. 3 What I think I'll do, and I'm 4 doing this in another case, when I make 5 redaction I'm going to do a -- I hesitate to 6 call it a pleading, but I'm just going to call 7 it redactions. I'll send both of you a copy 8 of it, as to what I've redacted, look at, 9 compare it to your notes, make sure I didn't 10 miss anything. 11 I hesitate to put it in the 12 record, because it's more of a communication 13 between the three of us, but, you know, we can 14 decide what we want to do. 15 But, once I get everything 16 redacted, I'll make a list of what I've done, 17 double check. I didn't see any PII, I did see 18 some other informationthat we mutually agreed 19 on. 20 You two work up a schedule, and 21 we'll go from there. 22 Thank you, gentlemen, it's a shame

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433460 

### 1 to leave a sunny day here in Salt Lake. 2 MR. 

### DWORKIN: Thank you, Your 3 Honor. 4 

### JUDGE GOODWIN: We are off the 5 record. 6 

### (Whereupon, the above-entitled 7 matter was concluded at 11:05 a.m.) 8 9 

### 10 11 12 13 14 

### 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433A $560,000408:12 $842,942.88408:19 A-G-G-1438:11 A-1-K-E-N438:12 a.m367:13 370:2

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Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 473474 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Skywest Airlines

Before: US DOT/FAA

Date: 05-20-14

Place: Salt Lake City, UT

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202) 234-4433 Court Reporter

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE. NW, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 WNW.nealrgross.com