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|   Fish and wildlifeArtificial ProductionArchive       Artificial Production Review Committee Meeting
**Thursday, February 26, 1998**  |  **document 98-4**

NWPPC Conference Room, Portland, Oregon

The Production Review Committee discussed an outline and draft chapter     for its report on artificial production in the Columbia River Basin and     considered resident fish issues and the Science Review Team's progress. A     list of attendees is attached at the end of this report.

Next Meeting: April 2 in Portland. 

**HIGHLIGHTS**

**Considering the Outline for the ReviewArraying the QuestionsResident Fish IssuesReport from the Science Review Team****Fiscal Year 1999 AppropriationsFirst Chance to Mark Up A Product**

**Opening Remarks**

Council staffer John Marsh, who chairs the committee announced that in     the future, agendas for the meetings would be sent out by e-mail a week in     advance. The committee also decided that HENCEFORTH ALL MEETINGS WOULD BEGIN     AT 9:30 AM. 

Meeting handouts will be attached to the minutes of the meetings, which     are available through the Council's webpage, Marsh said, and he urged     committee members to call him if they don't get the materials they need.     Marsh also noted that Don Sampson and Roy Sampsel are on contract to the     Council to assist with the review. They are serving as staff at these     meetings and do not represent any particular interests, he stated. 

Last week, we weeded out the science questions from the policy questions     in an effort to keep the Science Review Team (SRT) from answering policy     questions, noted Rich Berry of the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW).     Did we get a set of questions from Inter-Tribe (Columbia River Inter-Tribal     Fish Commission)? he inquired. No, but Doug Dompier (of Inter-Tribe) said he     will look into getting them to us, Marsh responded. Did the questions sent     to the SRT indicate what agency prepared which questions? asked Dompier. I     asked for that, but didn't get it, stated Bill Bakke of the Native Fish     Society. 

**Considering the Outline for the Review**

Marsh presented an outline of the report for the artificial production     review. He said it is an attempt to let people know what the products of the     review will be. "It's the meat of what we're going to do," Marsh stated. We     will not update the scoping document; instead, this will be our statement of     work, he said. The Production Review Committee will "drive the whole     process" and incorporate the different comments and concerns, Marsh added.

Dompier suggested that "steelhead" be deleted from the sentence in the     outline stating "The report will address all salmon and steelhead artificial     production regardless of funding source or purpose." He recommended that it     say "all salmon" or that it be specific and list all the species. There's no     intent to exclude anything, stated Marsh. He said the wording would be     changed to delete steelhead and a footnote would be added, which would list     all species covered. Bakke objected to deleting steelhead from the sentence.    

Marsh then walked the committee through the seven sections of the     outline. We intend to have separate but concurrent efforts for salmon and     resident fish, he stated. Marsh said he and Sampson have been working with     the resident fish caucus of the Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Authority (CBFWA)     and that they will be the forum used to address the resident fish portions     of the report. 

Why aren't you using the anadromous fish managers of CBFWA in a similar     way? asked Dompier. We have all the anadromous fish managers represented on     this committee, replied Marsh. There was an alternative in the scoping     document to do that, or to create this advisory committee, he explained. The     comments we got indicated a preference for the advisory committee, and the     Council decided that was how it would be done, Marsh said. With resident     fish, we wanted to use an existing committee, and the CBFWA caucus seemed     the most appropriate way to conduct a concurrent, but separate effort, he     stated. 

Will the CBFWA resident fish folks integrate anyone from the fish     conservation community into their work? asked Jim Myron of Oregon Trout. We     haven't gotten that far yet, replied Marsh. Will we be able to review the     resident fish product? asked Lee Hillwig of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife     Service (USFWS). This committee will get to look at drafts of all the     products, responded Marsh. Our focus will be on salmon, but you'll be able     to make the connections, he stated.

**Sections of the Outline**

I. Introduction. Marsh indicated that the Council will prepare this     section, which will generally describe the purpose and scope of the review     and the questions being addressed. 

II. Description and Historical Overview of Columbia River Hatchery     Programs and Policy. We'll hand out a draft of this section today, Marsh     stated. It is an overview of what's happening in the basin, explaining the     programs and what's been going on, he said. This section is divided into two     parts, one for salmon and one for resident fish, according to Marsh. The     salmon section will summarize "existing artificial production programs,     agreements, and law that mitigate for losses of Columbia River Basin     salmon," according to the outline. The resident fish section will summarize     "existing resident fish artificial production programs, agreements, and law     that either mitigate for hydropower-caused losses or that occur in waters     where other artificial production activities mitigate for hydropower-caused     losses." 

III. Overview of Scientific Basis for Columbia River Production Programs.     Marsh explained that this section of the report will look at the state of     the science in a risk-analysis format. He pointed out that the members of     the SRT, who will carry out the analysis, are: Council staffer Chip     McConnaha, chairman; three Independent Scientific Advisory Board members --     Jim Lichatowich, Richard Williams, and Brian Riddell; Ken Currens, Northwest     Indian Fisheries Commission; and Ernest Brannon, University of Idaho.

The outline indicates this section will be "a scientific analysis of the     use of artificial production as a tool for mitigation and enhancement of     fish populations" in the basin, with an emphasis on salmon. It also says     this section of the report will "review and summarize what current     scientific knowledge tells us about how artificial production should be     used, how it should not be used, and relative biological risks involved in     using it for different types of situations." 

What will we do if the SRT crosses the line into policy? asked Dompier.     If we see that, we will tell them, replied Marsh. This is not a secret     process -- we're trying to develop something useful to the region, he added.     IV. Results: Compilation of Information Regarding Historical Record of     Artificial Production Mitigation in the Columbia River Basin. This section     will contain a summary of data to provide a history of the performance of     each specific Columbia Basin salmon artificial production program and     "pertinent resident fish production programs," according to the outline. The     Council and a contractor will put this together, Marsh said. We won't     re-create what we have -- we'll use the Integrated Hatchery Operations Team     (IHOT) audits and the USFWS programmatic EIS on artificial production, he     added. Hillwig noted that the final programmatic EIS should be out in a     month to a month and a half. Don Sampson is taking the lead on the resident     fish portion of this section, Marsh said. 

V. Discussion: Performance Review of Columbia River Hatchery Programs.     According to the outline, this section will be "a summary of the performance     of existing and past artificial production efforts in meeting mitigation and     other stated objectives." It will take the work done in Sections III and IV     of the report and analyze what has happened and what can be done in the     future, said Marsh. The SRT and the Independent Economic Analysis Board have     the responsibility for this item, according to the outline. 

What is meant by "performance?" asked Pat Oshie of the Yakama Tribes,     pointing out that some hatcheries' goals involve the production of numbers     of fish and others involve pounds of fish. Is that performance? he asked.     We'll look at it programmatically, to identify how well programs are meeting     objectives, and why or why not, replied Marsh. I don't know how far we'll     get into each hatchery and raceway, he said. It's not meant to be an     indictment of what's happened in the past, Marsh added. 

What time frame are you looking at? asked Oshie. He pointed out, for     example, that the objectives of the Klickitat facility have changed a lot --     are you talking about the goals in 1952, when it was built, or in 1996?     Oshie inquired. We haven't gotten to that yet, replied Marsh. Some have     suggested performance over the last 15-20 years, he noted. The objectives     have changed a lot at hatcheries, said Dompier. Going back 15 years wouldn't     be wise, he stated. You have to look at changing objectives and why the     changes occurred, Dompier continued. Most of the changes were     management-driven, and it's critical not to lose sight of the     management-driven changes, he said.

VI. Summary of Scientific Conclusions. This section, to be done by the     SRT, is a summary of conclusions and recommendations reached in Section V,     according to the outline.

VII. Policy Analysis and Recommendations. This section, according to the     outline, is expected to provide a set of general principles regarding the     use of artificial production as a tool for mitigating and enhancing salmon     populations and for resident fish mitigation, enhancement, and substitution     in the basin. The Council and the Production Review Committee are the     responsible entities. 

Marsh distributed a chart of the schedule. He said Section II of the     report is in draft form now and will be completed by June 1998. Section III     is scheduled to be done by the end of September 1998, Section IV probably by     this summer, Sections V and VI by January 1999, and Section VII in June     1999, Marsh stated.

**Arraying the Questions**

Marsh handed out a list of "questions identified for consideration in the     artificial production review". He asked for volunteers to group the     questions under the sections of the report outline. Hillwig, Brian Allee of     CBFWA, and Trent Stickell of ODFW volunteered for the job. Marsh asked them     to do it by March 13 so he can send a new version of the list out to     committee members before the next meeting. 

**Resident Fish Issues**

Sampson explained that the strategy discussed with the resident fish     caucus of CBFWA is to parallel the anadromous fish process and use the same     outline. Some decisions need to be made on the type of resident fish     programs to be included in the review, he stated. The summary in Section II     of the report will look at programs that mitigate for hydropower-caused     losses or that occur in waters where other artificial production activities     mitigate for hydropower-caused losses, Sampson noted. It will include     information from the Council's Fish and Wildlife Program, USFWS-funded     hatcheries, BPA reports, and Lower Snake River Compensation Plan reports, he     stated. We will have to decide what other information to include, Sampson     said.

The resident fish caucus decided that Kirk Truscott of the Colville     Tribes will chair a subgroup to compile information and be the liaison with     the Production Review Committee, Sampson noted. We will meet Tuesday and     Wednesday of next week to discuss the approach for compiling this     information and the types of hatcheries to be included in the review, he     said. Keep in mind that the resident fish issues are as contentious as the     anadromous fish issues, Sampson stated. 

The subgroup will also meet next week to scope the information needed for     the report, according to Sampson. Truscott will be the key contact for that     work too, he said. I suggest that the subgroup, instead of a contractor,     synthesize the information and prepare this section of the report, said     Sampson. It will be similar to the draft anadromous fish report you will see     later today, he added.

Why should that group make the decisions about resident fish hatcheries?     asked Dompier. If the group that operates the hatcheries is the one to     decide whether to put the hatcheries up to be examined, they won't be     examined, he stated. We need a good list of hatcheries and where the     releases are happening, said Dompier. We are still debating whether to look     at state hatcheries and their releases into non-anadromous fish waters,     replied Sampson.

We've talked about including hydropower mitigation hatcheries and     hatcheries that release resident fish into areas where other     hydropower-funded facilities release fish, said Marsh. Why not look at all     of it? asked Dompier. Let's do "the study of all studies" for hatcheries,     including resident fish, he urged. The Council said that all anadromous fish     production should be covered, but that all resident fish production is too     broad, replied Marsh. The two types of resident fish artificial production     to be covered by this review, he said, are: -- "Resident fish artificial     production that addresses hydropower-caused losses"; and -- "Resident fish     artificial production, regardless of purpose, released in waters where     salmon or resident fish artificial production that is addressing     hydro-caused losses is also released." Those are the sideboards the Council     put on resident fish, Marsh said. Was the intent to include releases into     reservoirs? asked Stickell. Yes -- we are trying to separate out releases     into lakes that have nothing to do with hydropower losses, replied Marsh.     Stickell expressed concern that the review "will just get pieces of     state-funded programs." How can you do an evaluation when you are "picking     it apart into pieces?" he asked. 

This is not to review hatcheries as facilities, but to review artificial     production programs, stated Hillwig. Isn't the point to evaluate the     cost-effectiveness of hatcheries? asked Stickell. Let's open it up and look     at everything, urged Dompier. I'm concerned that otherwise it will just be     "another hatchery-bashing" operation, he said. I want to see the real     impacts, Dompier added.

How difficult is it to display resident fish artificial production for     all the states? asked Sampsel. I suggest you collect all the information and     set standards for analyzing the impacts of production programs, he said.     When you are done, you'll be able to see the relative costs of looking at     all production, and a smaller group can decide the next tiering from the     gross total, Sampsel suggested. In developing information on artificial     production in relation to resident fish, we should get the numbers, the     release sites, operations costs, and the like, he said. 

Who wants to work on the resident fish issue? asked Sampson. Stickell,     Myron, and Randy Fisher of the Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission     volunteered. 

Stickell questioned the part of the report that calls for summary of the     performance of existing and past resident fish artificial production     efforts. What's important is what we are doing now, he said. If this report     is to show "we've come a long way," we have to show the trend, said Hillwig.     Congress will be reading this, and we'll need to show where we were and     where we are now so they can see the trend, he stated. 

It bothers me "how people evaluate performance in a short time and     declare failure," for both anadromous fish and resident fish, said Allee. If     you limit the history, you may limit the review of performance, he stated.     Some people say, let's only do existing programs and the past is irrelevant,     said Marsh. Others say that we have to look at it all because we need to     show how much it's changed, he stated. They are both good arguments, Marsh     said. You may need to clear the matter up, "otherwise you could put yourself     in a box," stated Allee. You have to look over a broader time frame to see     variability over time, he said. 

From an operating agency's viewpoint, what we can give is from 1980 on,     stated Berry. We don't have the funding to get earlier information, he said.     We'll try to create as accurate an historical record as we can without lots     of historical research , summed up Sampson. I'd like to see one person     responsible for this, and why not you? said Bakke to Sampson. Members of the     committee could contract to do the work, but if not, we could do what you     suggest, responded Sampson. 

It's better to capture why and how the thinking about artificial     production has changed over time, instead of going back a hundred years,     said Bob Austin of BPA. For resident fish or anadromous fish, the important     thing is: what was the reason for a hatchery's authorization and how has it     changed over time? stated Sampson. We need to do an accurate concise     overview of that, he said.

**Report from the Science Review Team**

Council staffer Chip McConnaha reported that the SRT looked at the     technical questions sent by the Production Review Committee and indicated     they are "appropriate and doable." The SRT will try to collapse the     questions into a smaller subset -- maybe five or six -- that will eliminate     any duplication, he said. There is an outline of the SRT's contribution to     the review's report, McConnaha noted. I'll get you copies of the outline,     with the questions folded in, within a week, he said. The SRT is very     interested in getting the contractor for the review on board, according to     McConnaha. As soon as the contractor is selected, the SRT wants to hold a     meeting and talk about data needs, he said. 

McConnaha pointed out that the SRT will institute a more formal     notification process for its future meetings. Dompier inquired if the SRT     had been given any instructions about using historical literature or     peer-reviewed material. We've given them no directions, and we'll leave it     to them -- I assume it will be a mixture, replied McConnaha. We will provide     the SRT with a list of the members of the Production Review Committee as     their designated formal contacts for your agencies, he said. I encourage the     SRT members to contact us as they go along, stated Hillwig.

I noticed that many of the science questions this committee went over at     its January 30 meeting dealt with supplementation, said Oshie. We are     working with the state of Washington to develop answers to many of those     questions, he stated. We don't want premature answers from the SRT, and we     are concerned that the SRT's answers won't be consistent with the work we     are doing, Oshie said. Your report could indicate that these questions are     being researched by the Yakama Tribes and the state of Washington, David     Fast of the Yakama Tribes told the committee. Your work won't be done in     time to provide it to the SRT, noted Hillwig. We are finding that to be true     in other areas, he added. This sounds like a policy-level decision, said     McConnaha. It will be difficult for the SRT to say we can't look at a     question because someone else is looking at it, he stated. If there is     coordination to be done at the policy level, you should wrestle with it and     let us know, McConnaha said. 

You wouldn't want to reach a conclusive answer without us having a chance     to do the work and provide answers, stated Oshie. Many are doing interesting     work that may have a bearing on this, said McConnaha. Some questions won't     have answers for years, noted Austin. The review should identify where     answers are being studied, he added. If next year your research indicates     something contrary, obviously the science would be revised, said McConnaha.     We don't want to make production decisions on the state of the science now     because we are working on it, Oshie stated. We are always cutting across     ongoing research, noted McConnaha. I have the same concern, said Berry, who     recommended that the review's report acknowledge that some questions are the     subject of ongoing research. 

I thought this review was to look at 100 or more hatcheries and what they     have done, not at what Pat Oshie is describing -- that's cutting-edge     research, said Dompier. My concern is that the review will just be another     "slam the hatcheries" program, he stated. I can't imagine that the review     wouldn't acknowledge the research that is going on, said McConnaha. 

We are assuming that the deadline for the SRT's work is this September,     McConnaha stated. I'd be more comfortable if we decided that in some formal     way, he added. Where does the Council stand on the schedule? asked Hillwig.     The Fish Four reviewed it and said it looks good, and we are discussing it     with Congressional staff, replied Marsh. 

**Fiscal Year 1999 Appropriations**

Sampsel said he is preparing a report on what to tell Congress about FY     1999 appropriations for federally funded hatchery programs. We'll be able to     tell them about the status of the direct-funding efforts for the Lower Snake     River Compensation Plan, he said. There's not a lot of interest in the     Mitchell Act yet in D.C., Sampsel reported. The House wants all desires for     appropriations in by March 15, noted Fisher. Realistically, we can't get     them anything by the 15th, but we propose to have information about funding     levels for the Mitchell Act and the Lower Snake River Compensation Plan     around the 17th, said Sampsel. 

Sampsel said he plans to meet with tribal communities to discuss the     proposed federal budget legislation and get their input in the coming week.     He said he would meet with the Yakamas, the Warm Springs, the Umatillas, and     the Nez Perce between now and March 16. Sampsel said the 1996 federal agency     Memorandum of Agreement on BPA fish and wildlife funding suggested that     direct BPA funding of the Lower Snake River Compensation Plan be examined.     If there is agreement between BPA and USFWS to direct fund it prior to the     Washington, D.C. budget cycle, we would withdraw that funding request from     the appropriations bill, he said. Sampsel distributed a draft Memorandum of     Understanding on the direct funding of the Lower Snake River Compensation     Plan.

Sampsel said his report should be available by the end of next week, and     he indicated it will include recommendations, as well as "a specific     stacking of information" about the programs. The Council will take up this     topic at its work session in Spokane March 17-18, he stated. 

**First Chance to Mark Up A Product**

Marsh circulated a draft chapter for Section II of the report titled     "Artificial Production Requirements for Mitigation of Anadromous and     Resident Fish Losses in the Columbia River Basin," prepared by Council     staffer John Harrison. Marsh asked for comments from the committee by March     13. Comments can be e-mailed to Harrison at jharrison@nwcouncil.org.

Harrison explained that he put the draft section together by starting     with the losses statement about hatchery production in the Council's 1987     Fish and Wildlife Program. I expanded that and tried to bring it up to date,     he said. Your review will tell me if this is what you want as an overview,     stated Harrison. He added that the draft is quite preliminary and that many     editorial notes still appear in the text. 

Harrison pointed out several issues the draft chapter raises. For     example, we need to define what resident fish production we want to cover,     he said. Harrison noted that some of the information in the tables at the     end of the chapter deals with the number of fish released at hatcheries, but     does not indicate where the fish were produced. One of my major concerns in     determining the cost-effectiveness of hatcheries is how you credit     hatcheries for what they produce, and the tables don't do that, noted     Stickell. Since this section is an overview, it may not be appropriate to     have tables in it, stated Harrison. 

Sampsel said that a table done by CBFWA managers and reviewed by the     Production Review Committee dealing with costs associated with individual     hatchery facilities is the best piece of information of this type. Instead     of tables, I think it would be good to have the historical story of these     programs, for example, a discussion of the legislation that authorized the     Lower Snake River Compensation Plan, said Sampson. It would also be good to     review changes that have modified the objectives of hatchery programs over     time so that people understand the context of what will come later in the     report, rather than having detailed tables, he stated.

Harrison asked the committee to comment on the format of the chapter and     whether it proceeds logically. He said he would also like comments on what     pieces are missing and what other policy issues need to be addressed. 

This is the only place in the report that will track policy and law     changes in these programs, so please review it in that light, Marsh     recommended. Will we look at individual facilities and changes at individual     facilities in here, and if so, who will do it? asked Sampsel. That has to be     done -- to lay out how and why individual facilities have changed over time,     said Dompier. That's critical, and that's what leads to changes in     objectives, he stated.

Who will provide the information and that narrative? asked Sampsel. Some     is written and will need to be provided to John Harrison, said Marsh. What     isn't written needs to be identified, he added. Should, for example, the     Lower Snake River Compensation Plan office in Boise provide the history of     that plan? asked Sampsel. R.Z. Smith of NMFS pointed out that what's unique     about the Mitchell Act is that it is only half-a-page long and generally     says "do good things." It's more ephemeral than the others, he noted. I     suggest the information for the Mitchell Act and the Lower Snake River     Compensation Plan be developed by their lead agencies in conjunction with     the tribes, said Sampsel. We'll ask the mid-Columbia PUDs to develop     information for their hatcheries, said Marsh. You need to get a clear     snapshot of the BPA-funded facilities with different objectives, stated     Sampsel.

When an agency does its own review, it puts it own spin on it -- how will     we resolve that? asked Dompier. We have to start by getting the baseline     information from known sources, then we'll look at it and massage it, and go     from there, replied Sampsel. We need information on the table, as quickly as     possible, from those who are responsible for these programs, he said. Who     will be the gatekeeper to make sure the agencies get the information to us?     asked Allee. John [Marsh] and I will work on it, and we'll have a report at     the next meeting, said Sampsel. 

**Adjourn**

Production Review Committee February 26, 1998 Meeting Attendees

***Bill Bakke***, Native Fish Society ***Brian Allee***, Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Authority***Bob Austin***, BPA***Bob Foster***, Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife***Lee Hillwig***, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service***Rich Berry***, Oregon Dept. of Fish and Wildlife***Trent Stickell***, Oregon Dept. of Fish and Wildlife***Jim Myron***, Oregon Trout***Randy Fisher***, Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission ***Doug Dompier***, Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission ***Tom Rogers***, Idaho Fish and Game***Pat Oshie***, Yakama Tribes***David Fast***, Yakama Tribes***Roy Sampsel***, Sampsel Consulting***Don Sampson***, Sampsel Consulting ***Theodora Strong***, Sampsel Consulting***Dennis Rohr***, Chelan/Douglas PUDs***R. Z. Smith***, National Marine Fisheries Service***Sharon Sawdey***, FishPro, Inc.***John Marsh***, Northwest Power Planning Council staff***Chip McConnaha***, Northwest Power Planning Council staff***Andre L'Heureux***, Northwest Power Planning Council staff***Jack Wong***, Northwest Power Planning Council staff

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