109th CONGRESS Printed for the use of the 

1st Session Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe

THE GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH IN 

TURKEY: A VICTIM OF SYSTEMATIC 

EXPROPRIATION

March 16, 2005

Briefing of the 

Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe

Washington: 2006
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Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe 

234 Ford House Office Building 

Washington, DC 20515

202–225–1901

csce@mail.house.gov 

http://www.csce.gov

Legislative Branch Commissioners

HOUSE 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, NEW JERSEY,

Co-Chairman 

FRANK R. WOLF, VIRGINIA

JOSEPH R. PITTS, PENNSYLVANIA

ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, ALABAMA

MIKE PENCE, INDIANA

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, MARYLAND

LOUISE MCINTOSH SLAUGHTER,

NEW YORK

ALCEE L. HASTINGS, FLORIDA

MIKE MCINTYRE, NORTH CAROLINA

SENATE 

SAM BROWNBACK, KANSAS,

Chairman 

GORDON SMITH, OREGON

SAXBY CHAMBLISS, GEORGIA

CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, CONNECTICUT

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, WISCONSIN

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, NEW YORK

VACANT 

VACANT 

VACANT

Executive Branch Commissioners

VACANT, DEPARTMENT OF STATE

VACANT, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

WILLIAM HENRY LASH III, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

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ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE 

The Helsinki process, formally titled the Conference on Security and Cooperation in 

Europe, traces its origin to the signing of the Helsinki Final Act in Finland on August 

1, 1975, by the leaders of 33 European countries, the United States and Canada. As of 

January 1, 1995, the Helsinki process was renamed the Organization for Security and 

Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). The membership of the OSCE has expanded to 55 participating States, reflecting the breakup of the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia. 

The OSCE Secretariat is in Vienna, Austria, where weekly meetings of the participating States’ permanent representatives are held. In addition, specialized seminars and 

meetings are convened in various locations. Periodic consultations are held among Senior 

Officials, Ministers and Heads of State or Government. 

Although the OSCE continues to engage in standard setting in the fields of military 

security, economic and environmental cooperation, and human rights and humanitarian 

concerns, the Organization is primarily focused on initiatives designed to prevent, manage 

and resolve conflict within and among the participating States. The Organization deploys 

numerous missions and field activities located in Southeastern and Eastern Europe, the 

Caucasus, and Central Asia. The website of the OSCE is: <www.osce.org>. 

ABOUT THE COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE 

The Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, also known as the Helsinki 

Commission, is a U.S. Government agency created in 1976 to monitor and encourage 

compliance by the participating States with their OSCE commitments, with a particular 

emphasis on human rights. 

The Commission consists of nine members from the United States Senate, nine members from the House of Representatives, and one member each from the Departments of 

State, Defense and Commerce. The positions of Chair and Co-Chair rotate between the 

Senate and House every two years, when a new Congress convenes. A professional staff 

assists the Commissioners in their work. 

In fulfilling its mandate, the Commission gathers and disseminates relevant information to the U.S. Congress and the public by convening hearings, issuing reports that 

reflect the views of Members of the Commission and/or its staff, and providing details 

about the activities of the Helsinki process and developments in OSCE participating 

States. 

The Commission also contributes to the formulation and execution of U.S. policy 

regarding the OSCE, including through Member and staff participation on U.S. Delegations to OSCE meetings. Members of the Commission have regular contact with 

parliamentarians, government officials, representatives of non-governmental organizations, and private individuals from participating States. The website of the Commission 

is: <www.csce.gov>. 

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THE GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH IN TURKEY: A VICTIM OF 

SYSTEMATIC EXPROPRIATION

MARCH 16, 2005

COMMISSIONER 

Page 

Hon. Christopher H. Smith, Co-Chairman, Commission on Security and Cooperation in

Europe .......................................................................................................................................... 1

PARTICIPANTS 

Elizabeth B. Pryor, Senior Advisor, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ...... 3

His Eminence, Archbishop Demetrios, Primate of the Greek Orthodox Church in America, 

Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch .......................................................................................... 4

Rabbi Arthur Schneier, President, Appeal of Conscience Foundation ....................................... 10

Dr. Anthony Limberakis, M.D., National Commander, Archons of the Ecumenical

Patriarchate of the Order of St. Andrew the Apostle ............................................................... 13

Rev. Dr. Bob Edgar, General Secretary, National Council of Churches .................................... 15

His Eminence, Theodore Cardinal McCarrick, Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Washington .. 18

APPENDICES 

Prepared Statement of Hon. Christopher H. Smith, Co-Chairman ............................................ 30

Prepared Statement of Hon. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Commissioner, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ................................................................................................. 32

Prepared Statement of His Eminence, Archbishop Demetrios ................................................... 33

Exhibits submitted for the record by Dr. Anthony Limberakis, M.D ......................................... 34

Prepared Statement of Rev. Dr. Bob Edgar .................................................................................. 35

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THE GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH IN TURKEY: A VICTIM OF 

SYSTEMATIC EXPROPRIATION 

March 16, 2005

Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe

Washington, DC

The briefing was held at 10 a.m. in room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, 

Washington, DC, Elizabeth Pryor, Senior Advisor, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, moderating. 

Commissioners present: Hon. Christopher H. Smith, Co-Chairman, Commission on 

Security and Cooperation in Europe; Hon. Alcee L. Hastings, Commissioner, Commission 

on Security and Cooperation in Europe; and Hon. Mike McIntyre, Commissioner, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. 

Staff present: Elizabeth B. Pryor, Senior Advisor, Commission on Security and 

Cooperation in Europe and Chadwick R. Gore, Staff Advisor, Commission on Security and 

Cooperation in Europe. 

Participants present: His Eminence, Archbishop Demetrios, Primate of the Greek 

Orthodox Church in America, Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch; Rabbi Arthur Schneier, 

President, Appeal of Conscience Foundation; His Eminence, Theodore Cardinal McCarrick, 

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Washington; Dr. Anthony Limberakis, M.D., National 

Commander, Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of the Order of St. Andrew the 

Apostle; and Dr. Bob Edgar, General Secretary, National Council of Churches. 

Mr. SMITH. Good morning. My name is Chris Smith. I’m the Co-Chairman of the 

Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. 

Just very briefly, by way of background, I have served on the Commission since my 

second term, which began in 1983. And this briefing is an important briefing. And we’ll 

get into the substance very, very shortly. 

But I do want to recognize that it’s so good to see my old friend and colleague, Bob 

Edgar. Bob and I served on the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs for a large number 

of years. Matter of fact, we were just talking. One of his chief assistants is now the 

director of government affairs for the Paralyzed Veterans of America and is doing a great 

job there. 

But it’s so good to see you, Bob, after all these years. 
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Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I do convene now this Helsinki Commission 

briefing to highlight congressional concerns regarding systematic Turkish Government 

efforts to undermine the existence of the Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey. 

With the date for E.U. negotiations now set, Turkey has taken bold steps to bring 

its laws into harmony with European Union standards. At the same time, however, Turkey’s policies concerning religious freedom and the Greek Orthodox Church have come 

under increased international scrutiny, and so they should. 

Our concerns include property expropriation and continued closure of the Halki Seminary, obstacles to ownership and repair of churches, and the steadfast refusal of Turkish 

authorities to recognize the ecumenical status of the Orthodox patriarch. 

Today we have an outstanding group of panelists who will speak to these concerns. 

And this information, by the way, will then be passed on to members of Congress, House 

and Senate, so that they can be better informed about what is really going on. 

In addition, the Helsinki Commission will hold a second briefing in the near future 

to highlight problems faced by Muslims and other faiths in Turkey. 

The justification for property seizures is complex, but the core issue is simple: The 

patriarch-owned properties have shrunk by almost 80 percent, from 8,000 in 1936 to 1,700 

at present; 1,100 of the remaining 1,700 are not legally recognized and are especially 

vulnerable to seizure. 

There is a pattern: Properties are threatened with expropriation when the population 

of a religious community drops below a certain level. The government then determines 

a property has fallen into disuse, as they call it, and assumes its management. 

Last September, Turkey did adopt regulations to improve the way the size of the religious community is gauged to give communities with legal status the ability to acquire 

new property. 

However, the legislation ignores the fact that these seizures are fundamentally 

illegal, while not allowing communities to reclaim hundreds of properties expropriated by 

the state. 

The most glaring property issues regard the Orthodox Theological School of Halki, 

seized in 1971, when the government nationalized all institutions of higher education. 

The continued closure of the only educational institution in Turkey for Orthodox 

Christian leadership is untenable and unconscionable. 

This has had a deleterious effect on the ability of Turkey’s Greek Orthodox citizens 

to train the next generation of clergy. 

The Greek Orthodox Church and other communities, like the Armenian Orthodox, 

Syrian Orthodox and Catholic churches, have been deprived of important cultural sites 

and places of worship. 

Reformers should terminate the ability of government agencies to seize the property 

of a religious community, while also simplifying the process for groups to regain clear title 

to their lost holdings. 

Should there be no local community, the property should revert to the religious 

community and not to the state. 

Reportedly, the foreign ministry’s reform monitoring committee is advocating for 

reforms that ensure the return of seized property or the payment of compensation. I certainly hope this happens. 
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The issue is, indeed, black and white. Property must be returned and expropriations 

must end. 

Members of the Helsinki Commission have been constant and vocal advocates for the 

Greek Orthodox Church, as well as other religious groups experiencing problems in Turkey, be they Muslim, Christian, or other. 

Current Turkish policies violate OSCE commitments and threaten the viability of the 

patriarch’s presence in Istanbul. 

Turkey has a proud history of religious tolerance, but current government policies 

appear targeted to bring about the eventual exodus of the Greek Orthodox from Turkey 

entirely. 

I urge the Government of Turkey to continue with its good reform program, but take 

immediate actions to support the Orthodox citizens and bring its laws and policies into 

conformity with their OSCE commitments. 

I’d like to now turn our program to Elizabeth Pryor, who is one of our experts on 

the Helsinki Commission, who will be introducing our distinguished panel. And then we 

will go into the briefing itself. 

Elizabeth? 

Ms. PRYOR. It is my pleasure to introduce our distinguished panelists today. After 

their presentations, we’ll take questions. 

After the presentations, we’ll be taking questions from the floor. And you can also 

get a copy of the proceedings. Usually, they’re available within 24 hours from our Website, 

which is www.csce.gov. 

Our first panelist today will be His Eminence, Archbishop Demetrios, who was 

elected Archbishop of America on August 19, 1999, by the Holy and Sacred Synod of the 

Ecumenical Patriarch, convened by His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. 

He was enthroned as the spiritual leader of 1.5 million Greek Orthodox Christians 

in America at the Archdiosean Cathedral of the Holy Trinity in New York City on September 18th, 1999. 

Archbishop Demetrios, Primate of the Greek Orthodox Church in America and 

Exarch of Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, is the sixth Archbishop of America since the Greek 

Orthodox Archdiocese was established in 1922. 

Our next panelist after him will be Rabbi Arthur Schneier. He’s known internationally for both his leadership on behalf of religious freedom and human rights and his work 

for religious freedom and tolerance. He is founder and president of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation and spiritual leader of the Park East Synagogue, an historic landmark 

in New York City. 

Mr. Schneier is a Holocaust survivor who has devoted a lifetime to overcoming forces 

of hatred and intolerance, and has set an inspiring example of spiritual leadership by 

encouraging interfaith dialogue and intercultural understanding, and promoting the cause 

of religious freedom around the world. 

Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick was installed as Archbishop of the Roman Catholic 

Archdiocese of Washington on January 3rd, 2001. He’s Chancellor of the Catholic University of America, president of the Board of Trustees of the Basilica of the National Shrine 

of the Immaculate Conception. A founding member of the Papal Foundation, he has 

served as its president since 1997. 
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Cardinal McCarrick also is a member of the Board of Catholic Relief Services. 

For the Vatican, he serves on the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Migrants and Itinerant People, and the Pontifical 

Commission for Latin America. 

Dr. Anthony J. Limberakis is a graduate of Duke University School of Medicine and 

is the president of Bustleton Radiology Associates Ltd., a radiology practice in metropolitan Philadelphia. 

Dr. Limberakis was invested as Archon of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 1987 and 

has served on its national council since 1989, and subsequently as its national secretary. 

He chaired the Archon Patriarchal Concert for Peace, featuring Nana Mouskouri 

during the recent visitation to America of His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. 

And finally, the Reverend Dr. Bob Edgar serves as General Secretary of the National 

Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States, the leading U.S. organization for 

the movement for Christian unity. 

Under his leadership, the council is refocusing its energies on two major initiatives. 

One is a 10-year domestic mobilization to overcome poverty. The other is an exploration 

of an expanded ecumenical vision for the new millennium, a conversation that includes 

Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, the Roman Catholic Church, and the council’s 

member communities. 

I think we’ll start with Archbishop Demetrios. And let me turn the floor over to you, 

sir. 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. Honorable representatives and U.S. Representatives and 

members of the Helsinki Commission, Representative Smith, Ms. Pryor, distinguished 

members of the panel, ladies and gentlemen: 

We thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak about the very difficult situation 

in which our venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople finds itself vis-a-vis the 

Turkish Government. 

I’m speaking to you as the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Church in America, 

with a constituency between 1.5 million and 2 million people, a constituency which 

ecclesiastically belongs to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. 

As the archbishop of this church, I feel that what happens to the Ecumenical Patriarchate has a direct impact on us here, both as Orthodox Christians and as American citizens. 

And I’m speaking with an increased experience, because for the last year I have been 

a member of the Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, participating there once a month 

for two days in the works of the patriarchate, therefore I have an immediate experience 

of what’s going on. 

The foundation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate may be traced to apostolic times, to 

the 1st century A.D., when Christianity reached what is now Turkey. 

In the 4th century A.D., Emperor Constantine transferred the capital of the Roman 

Empire to the East, to the so-called, at that time, known as Byzantium, and named the 

new city Constantinople. 
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It was in this context that the Ecumenical Patriarchate began to take its institutional 

form that we know today, as the religious and ecclesiastical administrative center of the 

Orthodox Church worldwide. 

The Ecumenical Patriarchate and its surrounding areas served as the locations for 

the seven ecumenical councils of the undivided Christian church, which were convened 

over the course of the first Millennium. 

The Ecumenical Patriarchate continued to exist even after the dissolution and the fall 

of the Byzantium Empire in 1453. It existed and, at times, even thrived under the rule 

of the Ottoman Empire, and since the founding of the Turkish Republic in the 20th century. 

Today, there is great importance for the continued ministry of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in coordinating the affairs of other Orthodox Christian jurisdictions worldwide, in 

fostering dialogue with other Christian denominations, and in promoting peace, tolerance 

and reconciliation among the religions of the world. 

Despite this realized importance of its ministry, the Ecumenical Patriarchate today 

and its constituency in Turkey continue to suffer from unfair treatment at the hands of 

the Turkish state. 

A tragic instance of this treatment were the riots of 1955, carried out in Smyrna and 

Istanbul against the Greek Orthodox minority Community. 

These sad phenomena, which were provoked by the Turkish Government, unjustly 

reduced a flourishing community of over 100,000 Greek Orthodox citizens in the city of 

Istanbul alone to the present remnant of only 2,000 to 3,000—from 100,000 down to 2,000 

to 3,000 today. 

The effects of this reduction led to an expropriation against the Greek Orthodox 

community by the Turkish government that continues to this day. 

Characteristic of this expropriation was the closure of theological school mentioned 

already by Mr. Smith, the closure of the Theological School of Halki on the island of 

Heybeli in 1971, on the pretext of its being a privately run university-level academic 

institution. 

In spite of numerous petitions and appeals to the Turkish Government for its 

reopening, including personal appeals made by Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill 

Clinton—and allow me to say that I was there when both presidents arrived and spoke 

on behalf of the Halki reopening—in spite of this advocacy, the Government of Turkey 

still refuses to allow this important school to reopen. 

The Theological School of Halki is the only institution of the Ecumenical Patriarchate 

for the training of its clergy. One cannot underestimate its importance for the essential 

survival of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. If you don’t have a school, you don’t have clergy. 

If you don’t have clergy, you go down by an inexorable process. 

Another major problem facing the Ecumenical Patriarchate today is the continuous 

confiscation of church property by the Turkish Government, which refuses to recognize 

titles to Greek Orthodox minority properties purchased or acquired by donation after 

1936. 

Recently, the Supreme Court of Turkey ruled against the Ecumenical Patriarchate, 

allowing the government to confiscate a very large and historic orphanage belonging to 

the Greek Orthodox community on the island of Prinkiponisos. 
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Approximately 1,400 properties belonging to the Ecumenical Patriarchate have been 

confiscated, of which 152 were recently taken from the Baloukli hospital in Istanbul. This 

hospital of the Ecumenical Patriarchate serves the needs of the general Turkish citizenry, 

with quite advanced centers for drug and alcohol treatment. 

Today, the Baloukli hospital is threatened with bankruptcy by the recent imposition 

of an unbearable retroactive tax on the grounds that it is not considered a nonprofit 

organization. 

Yet another problem is the refusal of the Turkish Government to recognize the legitimate ecumenical title of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. This title refers to the conciliatory 

role of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in its global ministry. 

It is a title that is historically established since the 6th century and internationally 

recognized by political and religious communities. Yet the Turkish Government refuses to 

allow the Ecumenical Patriarchate to use this title in all contexts. 

There is not only this unhistoric prohibition of the title Ecumenical Patriarchate, but 

the government refuses to allow the Patriarchate, as well to other religious minorities, to 

have legal status as such. 

In closing, I would like to express my deep pain and serious concern at the very existence of this phenomena in Turkey today, especially at a time when the international 

community is particularly sensitive to the importance of religious freedom, human rights 

and the protection of the rights of religious minorities. 

These problems are all the more distressing when one considers that the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate has been a major and consistent proponent over the recent years in favor 

of Turkey’s accession to the European Union. 

It is my hope that the Commission will give urgent attention to these problems so 

that the Greek Orthodox community of Turkey and the Patriarchate, together with all 

other minority communities in Turkey, such as the Jewish and Armenian communities, 

may be protected in their lawful right to contemplate a secure existence and a prosperous 

future. 

Thank you. 

At this point, I would like to ask for a short interference, intervention, by the distinguished lawyer, Mr. Emmanuel Demos, who has been heavily involved in the whole issue 

of the rights of the Patriarchate over the last years. 

Mr. DEMOS. Thank you, Your Eminence. 

Distinguished members of the council, of the panel, I am the General Counsel of the 

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese. I have with me here today the legal basis of our case. It 

is contained in a study, a 60-page study done by the Yale Law School, the Lowenstein 

Human Rights Clinic of the Yale Law School. And this will be available on the Internet, 

and you’ll be able to share in it. 

And with me is Professor Jim Silk of the Yale Law School, who heads the Lowenstein 

Clinic, and one of the authors of this report, Maria Pulzetti, to whom I will cede part of 

my time. 

I just want to make a couple of comments. 

In addition to the complaints that His Eminence referred to, the most serious one 

at the moment is the fact that the Turkish Government, contrary to the Treaty of Lausanne, which I’ll refer to in a moment, insists that it has the right to approve or dis-
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approve or veto the person who might be nominated to be the Ecumenical Patriarchate 

and insists that that person be a Turkish citizen. 

On top of that, they have been insisting that the members of the Holy Synod, which 

in effect in American corporate parlance is the executive committee of the Patriarchate, 

which consists of 12 Archbishops or Metropolitans, they have been insisting that they be 

Turkish residents and citizens. 

There is absolutely no basis in Turkish law for this. And the Treaty of Lausanne 

makes it absolutely clear that this type of interference is unwarranted. And the Treaty 

of Lausanne, within its own terms, states that the treaty is part of the fundamental law 

of Turkey and may not be changed by any other legislative or administrative action. 

The Patriarch very bravely last year sent a letter to the Turkish Government and 

informed them that this was his position, and as a result he named six new Metropolitans 

and Archbishops to the Ecumenical Synod, of which His Eminence was one. And to date 

the Turkish Government has not been heard from. I mean, theoretically, they could have 

arrested the six and run them out of the country. But they have quietly acquiesced to 

that. 

So this is one of the major things that we have concern with, because opening the 

School of Halki, it would be 10, 12 years before you can raise, educate and give experience 

to students so they could rise into leadership positions. The Ecumenical Patriarchate, by 

its own terms, is ecumenical and is the leader of archdiocese and dioceses metropolises 

throughout the whole world, and there’s absolutely no legal reason why this should be 

limited to Turkish citizens. 

I also want to make the point that this is not a Greek versus Turkish issue. That’s 

for the Greek Government to worry about. This is a human rights issue. And it’s a human 

rights issue not limited to the Greek ethnic group. The Treaty of Lausanne talks about 

non-Muslim minorities. Which means it could be Jewish, it could be Catholic, it could be 

Greek Orthodox. 

As a matter of fact, the Wall Street Journal several months ago, in a front page story, 

told the story of a Presbyterian minister who somehow turned up in Turkey, at first to 

minister to expats who were living and had retired to certain parts of southern Turkey. 

And he raised some money to buy a church. The Turkish Government has refused to let 

him buy this church. 

In the meantime, there are Turkish people, originally Muslims, who apparently want 

to join this church. And it would seem to me, if you’re a non-Muslim and you’re a citizen 

of Turkey, you’re protected by the Treaty of Lausanne as well. 

The Prime Minister of The Netherlands, on a trip to Turkey, bitterly complained to 

the Turkish Prime Minister and pointed out that there are over 300 mosques in The 

Netherlands alone, not to mention how many there may be throughout all of Europe. And 

he just could not understand why the Turkish Government couldn’t allow this. 

As His Eminence said, we wholeheartedly support the accession of Turkey into the 

European Union, because I think this will have a beneficial effect on all of Europe. 

But the bottom line, if you want to be part of Europe, act like a European. 

I will now turn it over—because in addition to the Treaty of Lausanne, there are at 

least four or five European and other international treaties to which Turkey is a party, 

which make it unequivocally clear that every action that the Turkish government has 

taken is illegal. 
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And they pay great lip service that they do everything legally, but in effect it’s a very, 

very cynical use of the law, because they find every little thing to pervert the law. 

They passed legislation in response to the European Union three years ago in order 

to make it easier for people—for religious groups—to register their properties, and yet 

they turn around and they administer the law where they make it even more difficult and 

put time periods and this and that. 

So, in effect, they’ve turned the thing on its head and make it more difficult for the 

desired objective of the European Union to be accomplished. 

Maria, do you want to——

Ms. PULZETTI. Hello. My name is Maria Pulzetti, and I am a student at the Yale Law 

School and a student in the Lowenstein International Human Rights Clinic at the law 

school. 

I’d like to thank the Commission and Archbishop Demetrios for allowing us to share 

our report with you today. 

I just want to give a very brief overview of the report. I think anyone who is 

interested in a more detailed analysis can pick up a copy outside. 

The report is titled ‘‘Turkey’s Compliance with its Obligations to the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate and the Orthodox Christian Minority.’’ And we researched this report at the 

request of the archdiocese, and we found that there’s a very clear international consensus 

that Turkey does not uphold its obligations with regard to the Patriarchate and the 

Orthodox minority. 

As a party to several international human rights treaties, a Member State of the 

Council of Europe and a participating State in the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Turkey has taken on binding obligations to protect the rights of religious 

minorities and to prevent discrimination on the basis of national origin, religion, or ethnicity, all of which apply to the Greek Orthodox minority. 

Turkey violates these obligations with its law and practice restricting the activities 

of the Patriarchate. The European Union, United Nations bodies, and the United States 

have repeatedly criticized Turkey’s discriminatory treatment of religious minorities, and 

in particular their restriction upon the activities of the Patriarchate. 

For example, the U.S. State Department issues annual—I’m sure you’re all familiar 

with these reports—Country Reports on Human Rights Practices. And for each year over 

the past several years, and indeed in the report that was issued this year, on February 

28, 2005, the State Department criticizes such issues as the legal status of the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate, the treatment of the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s foundations, the seizure of 

property, the closure of the Halki Seminary, and the leadership restrictions upon the 

Synod. 

The European Union, which issues frequent reports on Turkey’s compliance with the 

accession criteria, has also criticized Turkey’s restriction on the legal personality of the 

Ecumenical Patriarchate, on the seizure of property, on the treatment of non-Muslim religious minority foundations, on the restrictions on the training of Orthodox clergy, and on 

reservations Turkey has made to international treaties, especially with regard to religious 

education. 

I wanted to tell you a little bit more about sort of the sources of international law 

that we looked to in making our findings. 
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In recent years, Turkey ratified the two major U.N. human rights treaties that, 

together with the Universal Declaration, make up what we call the International Bill of 

Human Rights. These are the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the 

ICCPR; and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, which 

has a very long acronym. 

And the ICCPR in Article 18 protects freedom of thought, conscience and religion. 

And the U.N. Human Rights Committee, which interprets the ICCPR, has interpreted 

Article 18 to protect the building of places of worship, the freedom to choose religious 

leaders, and the freedom to establish seminaries or religious schools. 

Similarly, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights protects the right to education and obligates states not to interfere with the right of individuals and bodies to establish and direct educational institutions. 

Another major U.N. human rights treaty, which is actually the most widely ratified 

human rights treaty in existence today, is the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Turkey has ratified this convention. And this convention protects children’s rights to manifest 

and practice religious beliefs and the right to religious education. 

Now, in ratifying these three treaties, Turkey did enter reservations to its ratification, especially with regard to religious minorities. And although these ratifications have 

some arguable force in international law, it is notable that the European Union has criticized sharply Turkey’s ratifications to those central provisions of those treaties. 

You all here are quite familiar also with the OSCE and Turkey’s obligations with 

regard to the OSCE, so I won’t go on about that for too long. But the OSCE does include 

obligations to protect the rights of national minorities, and those are interpreted to protect 

national minorities’ rights to establish and maintain their own educational, cultural and 

religious institutions, organizations and associations. 

And it’s worth noting that the OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities has 

visited Turkey to investigate Turkey’s protection of religious minorities. 

Finally, I would like to briefly introduce the European Convention on Human Rights 

and Fundamental Freedoms. 

As a Member State of the Council of Europe, Turkey is obliged to uphold the provisions of the European Convention. There are two relevant provisions of the European 

Convention to this issue. 

The first is Article 9, which requires Turkey to protect freedom of religion, including 

freedom to manifest religion and worship, teaching, practice and observance. 

As interpreted by the European Court of Human Rights, Article 9 applies to religious 

groups and organizations, as well as to individuals. 

Article 1 of Protocol 1 to the convention protects the right to peaceful enjoyment of 

one’s possessions. And this also applies to both institutions and individuals. 

The court’s jurisprudence on Article 1 of Protocol 1 strongly protects individuals’ and 

religious institutions’ rights to own and enjoy their property. 

We interpret it that Turkey’s seizure and restriction on the use of the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate’s real property may violate Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the European Convention. 

And the last note I would like to make is that in the European Union accession 

process, which has been very much in the news lately with regard to Turkey’s human 
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rights compliance, the European Commission has repeatedly criticized Turkey’s treatment 

of religious minorities. 

In their accession report of 2004, the Commission wrote, ‘‘Although freedom of religious belief is guaranteed in the constitution and freedom to worship is largely unhampered, non-Muslim religious communities continue to encounter obstacles. They lack legal 

personality, face restrictive property rights and interference in the management of their 

foundations, and are not allowed to train clergy.’’

In conclusion, all religious minorities in Turkey have internationally protected rights 

to practice their religion, train clergy, appoint religious leaders, own and use property, 

operate religious schools, and associate in religiously affiliated foundations. 

The Turkish Government also has an obligation to protect the security of non-Muslim 

minorities and religious institutions. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you very much. 

And thank you, Archbishop. 

I’d like to give the floor now to Rabbi Schneier. 

You have the floor, sir. 

Rabbi SCHNEIER. Chairman Smith and members of the Helsinki Commission, Your 

Eminence and members of the panel: 

It is my privilege to appear before this Commission to give you some insights to the 

Appeal of Conscience Foundation’s encounters with the Government of Turkey since 1991. 

I also want to commend the U.S. Helsinki Commission for the important work it has 

accomplished since its inception in 1976 on behalf of human rights and religious and 

ethnic minorities. 

The Appeal of Conscience Foundation since 1965 has worked on behalf of religious 

freedom and human rights and the protection of religious sites. In fact, in the year 2000 

we took the initiative to urge the United Nations to adopt a resolution for the protection 

of religious sites worldwide. 

I am happy to tell you that U.N. Resolution A55L81, which was unanimously adopted 

by the General Assembly, called for the protection of all religious sites worldwide, and 

Turkey was one of the signatories of that U.N. resolution. 

I have a particular interest in the protection of religious sites because as a child in 

Vienna—I am a Holocaust survivor—I saw my synagogue burning on Kristallnacht in 

1938. And what started with the burning of books, and continued with the destruction 

and burning of synagogues, eventually ended up with the burning of human beings. 

So this issue of protection of religious sites and human rights and religious freedom 

is a personal issue, which I feel very deeply about. It was only 60 years ago that we put 

an end to the Nazi tyranny that claimed millions and millions of innocent human lives. 

And as we have heard, so many treaties have been enacted, both at the U.N. and 

the European Community. The question is not just the signing, but the implementation 

and the enforcement. 

Let me recall my trip to Ankara and Istanbul in 1991, with Cardinal McCarrick, 

trustee of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, then Archbishop of Newark. We went to 

Ankara and Istanbul. Remember, this was at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

You had many, many Muslim states in Central Asia. And the question: Which way are 

they going to turn? And I made a statement on return from that trip that Turkey could 
11

be a role model instead of Iran being a role model for these Central Asian Muslim communities. 

We met at the time with His All Holiness, Patriarch Bartholomew I, and proposed 

a co-sponsorship of an international conference called The Peace and Tolerance Conference. And His All Holiness enthusiastically supported the idea. 

We met with then Prime Minister Demirel and leaders of the Turkish Government. 

And after overcoming several obstacles, it was agreed that this conference should take 

place, and it did take place at the Bosphorus Swissotel in Istanbul in 1994. 

We brought together religious leaders from Central Asia and the strife-torn Balkans. 

I still remember the market murder in Sarajevo at the time, when the conference took 

place. And 120 religious leaders gathered in Istanbul under the joint auspices of the 

Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, with the support of 

Pope John Paul II, who sent Cardinal Etchegaray to this conference to represent him. 

It was a widely supported Conference of Peace and Tolerance. As a result of that conference, the conclusion was—a crime perpetrated in the name of religion is the greatest 

crime against religion. It was prophetic. 

It sounds very relevant today, doesn’t it? We spoke about that in connection with the 

conflict in the former Yugoslavia, the ethnic conflict, that luckily did not turn into a major 

religious war. 

Cardinal McCarrick and I, speaking to the leaders of Turkey in preparation for the 

conference, immediately encountered a sensitive issue, which I believe is still the core of 

the difficulty today. That is, we referred to the Ecumenical Patriarch as the Ecumenical 

Patriarch. 

In talking to the government leaders, they kept on saying, ‘‘No, Rum Patrichaneza.’’

This is really a question of the definition of the legal status of the Ecumenical Patriarch, which is still a bone of contention. I think that this issue is still haunting us. In 

fact, the Lausanne Treaty was invoked by you. There is a clear definition of establishing 

the role of the Patriarch. 

Anyhow, despite the initial obstacles, the Peace and Tolerance Conference brought 

credit to Turkey as a venue for inter-religious co-operation in pursuit of peace and tolerance. 

It was widely reported. It was a successful conference. And a byproduct of the conference was also the improvement of relations between the Ecumenical Patriarchate and 

the Turkish authorities at that time. 

The ecumenical status, the legal status of the Patriarchate still needs to be recognized by Turkey today. That is the critical point. 

The Turkish Government—and this is a very firm statement—the Turkish Government should take advantage of the worldwide respect that the Ecumenical Patriarch 

enjoys from the international community. 

I speak as a partner with His All Holiness. We have been together in action, not only 

in Istanbul, in Brussels, the European Community, and other conferences. 

He is one of the outstanding leaders in terms of dialogue, inter-religious cooperation, 

preaching tolerance—all the essential and critical requirements today for all of us to coexist on this Earth. 
12

The Turkish Government should really take advantage of his standing in the international community, as well, and I emphasize, from his constructive role to put greater 

harmony in Turkish society. 

He has always emphasized that, the harmony of Turkish society. 

Another issue is the closing of the seminary in Halki. The Appeal of Conscience 

Foundation has repeatedly called to the attention of the Turkish Government—and I have 

had personally many discussions with cabinet ministers about it’s reopening. 

A theological school is really a lifeline. And if you don’t have that lifeline, you know, 

it is like you cannot breathe unless you have air. And the reopening is essential for the 

continued spiritual well-being and continuity of the small Greek Orthodox community in 

Turkey. 

Your Eminence, you have given us an historical overview of this issue. 

Then, finally, I traveled to Turkey after the 2003 terrorist bombing of the Istanbul 

synagogue. What came clearly through to me, that international terrorism makes no 

distinction between Christian, Jew and Muslim. We are all equal. And basically what we 

are facing: either we stand together and reject those who do not believe in coexistence 

or we succumb to them. 

We are not going to succumb to them because we want to live—and this is a personal 

philosophy of mine—to live and let live. And basically that is the message that I would 

urge the Helsinki Commission to convey to the Turkish government: live and let live. And 

that means the minorities, religious and ethnic minorities. 

The test of democracy, the barometer of democracy, is how the majority treats the 

minority. 

So it was devastating to see the destruction that was brought by these suicide 

bombers who had no respect for their own life, and certainly no respect for the life of 

others. 

I visited the maimed and the sick, more Muslims than Jews, in the hospitals, in the 

American hospital in Istanbul. His Holiness Bartholomew I and I were at the funeral of 

many of the victims who perished. 

And, again, the Turkish Government is to be commended for aiding the restoration 

of the destroyed buildings and business establishments. But it is surprising, according to 

reports that we received, that the Patriarchate has been unable to receive permission to 

repair the damage it suffered to one of its churches from the bombing. 

And finally, we stood shoulder to shoulder with the Turkish people, if you recall that 

tragedy of the earthquake. And it was my privilege—and this was the height of summer, 

the end of August, when there is no one around in Washington—of bringing together the 

religious leaders of this great American community to Washington, to the State Department, with Secretary of State Albright, including the acting head of the Greek Orthodox 

Church and the Armenian Church. 

We all stood together during that tragedy trying to seek and actually give, to energize 

the American public opinion for support. 

American Christians, Muslims and Jews, we stood together to help our brothers and 

sisters in Turkey to cope with their terrible tragedy. A call for action and prayer emanated from the meeting with Secretary Albright. 
13

In the same spirit—and with this I close—we call upon the Government of Turkey 

to support the principle of equitable treatment of all minorities. 

Yes, we, too, support Turkey’s entry into the European Union. 

This is why I think it is important that Turkey pay particular attention to the needs 

of its religious and ethnic minorities. I believe that, again I want to repeat, I think Turkey 

should take a leadership role in showing the international community that, in addition 

to being a signatory to all the various charters and conventions, there is a firm commitment to the principle of live and let live. 

Thank you so much. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you very much. 

My understanding is that Cardinal McCarrick is running a little bit late, but will be 

joining us later. So at this moment I’d like to turn the floor over to Dr. Limberakis. 

You have the floor. 

Dr. LIMBERAKIS. Your Eminence, our beloved Archbishop, Congressman Smith, Ms. 

Pryor, members of the Helsinki Commission, and distinguished panelists with me: 

I thank the Helsinki Commission for the opportunity to bring to its attention the 

deleterious effects and efforts of the Government of Turkey to undermine the existence 

of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the spiritual center of the world’s 300 

million Orthodox Christians located in Istanbul, Turkey. 

I am the national commander of the order of St. Andrew, Archons of the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate, which is under the direct jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarch and its 

Exarch in the United States, Archbishop Demetrios of America. 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is the victim of religious persecution by the Government of Turkey. This persecution is systemic, involving multiple levels 

of government, including local and national, judicial and legislative. It is insidious, occurring over many decades, and devastating, designed to ultimately obliterate the very existence of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. 

The Order of St. Andrew is an organization comprised of leading Orthodox Christians 

in the United States whose mission is to support and defend the Ecumenical Patriarchate. 

Our ranks include Members of Congress, such as Senator Paul Sarbanes and Congressman Michael Bilirakis; former members of White House administrations, including George 

Tenet and Tom Korologos; businessmen, such as Alex Spanos, the owner of the San Diego 

Chargers; professionals and academicians, such as Dr. John Brademas, former President 

of New York University, and Dr. Constantine Papadakis, President of Drexel University; 

members of the Federal bench; and preeminent stewards of the Orthodox faith throughout 

the United States. 

I wanted to bring to your attention various violations of religious human rights that 

the Archons have personally witnessed during our many pilgrimages to the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate in Istanbul, and our recent visits with government leaders in Ankara. 

The U.S. Department of State, with the assistance of Undersecretary of State Marc 

Grossman, and in cooperation with past and present U.S. Ambassadors to Turkey, 

including Ambassadors Mark Parris, Robert Pearson and currently Eric Edelman, has 

been instrumental in fortifying our position to seek religious freedom in Turkey. 

Ambassador Edelman is especially committed to seeking an improvement in their 

dismal human rights record. He accompanied the Archon leadership in February and 
14

December 2004 to meet with cabinet ministers of the ruling AK party in Ankara, 

including Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Abdullah Gu ̈l, Minister of Education Hu ̈ seyin C ̧ elik, Minister of State Responsible for Religious Affairs Mehmet Aydin, 

and Minister of Interior Abdu ̈lkadir Aksu. 

The Government of Turkey imposes severe restrictions on the ownership of property 

by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and of the Greek Orthodox community, as His Eminence 

commented earlier. It has confiscated thousands of properties of the Greek Orthodox 

community. 

And specifically, since 1936, when there were some 7,000 properties registered as 

duly owned by Greek Orthodox community members, the members have been gradually, 

systematically and dramatically decreasing, to approximately 2,000 properties in 1999 and 

now to less than 500 in 2005. 

Stated another way, the Ecumenical Patriarchate and its institutions do not have the 

right to buy, sell, maintain and inherit properties. 

A calamitous example of this process is taking place at this very moment on the 

island of Buyukada off the coast of Istanbul. And I draw your attention to a picture of 

this patriarchal orphanage, and in front of that orphanage are American citizens who took 

the time to leave their families and businesses and comforts of the United States and 

travel to the Ecumenical Patriarchate and witness—these are Archons and clergymen—

and witness this religious persecution. 

Regarding this patriarchal orphanage, on October 21, 2004, the Turkish supreme 

court handed down a decision in favor of the government and against the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate to confiscate this orphanage, along with its vast properties, owned by the 

church since 1902, predating the Turkish Republic. 

This facility once cared for 200 orphans, but due to the pogroms of 1955 and 1964, 

when most Greek inhabitants of Istanbul were forced to emigrate, the orphanage fell into 

disuse and disrepair. 

You should keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, that for centuries Greek Orthodox 

citizens comprised a steady 25 to 30 percent of the population in Istanbul. They now constitute less than 2,000 in a city of 12 million. 

At the time of the most recent Archon visit in December, we inspected the orphanage 

property and found it, as you can see in the picture, to be in a state of complete ruin. 

Repeated attempts to maintain the property were unsuccessful for decades because the 

authorities refused to grant building permits. 

Now the Government of Turkey, with the approval of the supreme court, has finalized 

plans to confiscate the property. 

Another example of failing to grant building permits, which Rabbi Schneier—and I’ll 

be happy to give you an update on this, Rabbi—is regarding the November 2003 terrorist 

bombings in Istanbul. And by the way, the Archon delegation visited Chief Rabbi of Turkey Isak Heleva, offering our condolences for that terroristic attack, which destroyed the 

British consulate, destroyed and severely damaged two synagogues, but also severely damaged the Church of the Virgin Mary, a Greek Orthodox church. 

And on December 17th, it was just a couple of months ago, on that fateful day, 

regarding the European Union, on December 17th the Ecumenical Patriarchate did 

receive finally the permission to rebuild the church that was destroyed. 
15

But this waiting and not answering and ignoring requests for assistance in rebuilding 

is not just unjust and unfair, but it really is emblematic of the modus operandi of the 

Turkish Government as it deals with the Greek Orthodox minority. 

In addition, during our recent inspection of Baloukli Hospital and Home for the Aged, 

which is a 250-year-old patriarchal-affiliated institution located in Istanbul, which serves 

30,000 to 40,000 Turkish citizens each year—and as a physician I could appreciate that 

magnitude of a hospital—our own legal counselor, Chris Tutakis, received a certified list, 

certified by Demitri Koriyani, the board of trustees member—chairman—of 144 confiscated properties of this charitable institution. 

And it is this same charitable institution that has now been informed it is subject 

to a 42-percent retroactive tax to 1999. 

Finally, another example of religious persecution, as has been mentioned by the panelists, is the closure of Halki School of Theology, resulting in the inability of the 

Ecumenical Patriarchate to train its clergy locally. 

Included among the graduates of the Halki seminary are His All Holiness Ecumenical 

Patriarch Bartholomew and Archbishop Biyakovos, the former Archbishop of North and 

South America. 

The government has refused to allow the reopening of the seminary despite assurances to President George W. Bush in January 2004 by Prime Minister Erdogan, and to 

President Bill Clinton in November 1999 by President Suleyman Demirel. 

In fact, we are now even more pessimistic and discouraged that Turkey does not have 

the political will to reopen Halki, nor relax the religious persecution that pervaded the 

government after our most recent meeting with Foreign Minister Gu ̈l. 

In his inaugural address President George W. Bush stated, quote, ‘‘We will encourage 

reform in our governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the 

decent treatment of their own people.’’ And he continues, ‘‘In the long run, there is no 

justice without freedom, and there can be no human rights without human liberty,’’ 

unquote. 

My fellow Americans of the Helsinki Commission, Turkey is denying basic religious 

human rights to its own citizens of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and Greek Orthodox 

community. These Turkish citizens do not have the liberty to practice their faith without 

fear of attack, to own property, to train their clergy, or to freely elect their church leaders. 

It is the expectation of the Orthodox citizens of the United States, whose spiritual 

leadership is located in Istanbul, that Turkey must comply with the various human rights 

documents to which they are a signatory. 

And if they wish to accede to the European Union, which the order supports, they 

will need to correct the systemic, insidious and devastating policies of religious persecution. 

In closing, I respectfully wish to submit a number of exhibits as a component of this 

presentation and thank the Commission for your kind invitation to present this. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you very much. 

I now give the floor to Reverend Dr. Bob Edgar. 

You have the floor. 

Rev. Dr. EDGAR. Thank you. 
16

I’m Bob Edgar. I’m General Secretary of the National Council of Churches USA. I 

want to thank the Helsinki Commission for the opportunity to speak today. And I’m grateful for the fact that when the bells are ringing I don’t have to get up and run for a vote. 

My office for many years was on the floor above us, and my committee assignment 

was two floors below this particular room. I was on the Public Works and Transportation 

Committee, and also served with Congressman Smith on the Veterans’ Affairs Committee. 

And it’s fun to be back in the building. 

Your Eminence, Archbishop Demetrios, it is very good to see you and to remember 

our time together, not only in New York, but also in Cuba last year as we dedicated the 

Orthodox Cathedral in old Havana. 

I want to speak to all of you just briefly as general secretary. 

And we welcome Cardinal McCarrick, who has joined us at this point. I see someone 

has twisted his arm to be here. [Laughter.] 

Many people think of the National Council of Churches as that really, really liberal 

organization that you read about in the newspapers. And I think it’s important for us at 

the beginning of this period, and especially in this context, to recognize the texture of the 

National Council of Churches. 

We represent 36 different church traditions, from the historic Black church traditions 

of the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church and the African Methodist Episcopal Church, 

the Living Peace Church traditions of Quakers and Brethren, all the mainline churches, 

the Lutherans and the Presbyterians and the United Methodists. 

We also represent 11 Orthodox traditions, both Eastern and Oriental. And we have 

been focused on a cross-section of theological and religious perspectives for the last 55 

years. 

And I might say, just for Cardinal McCarrick’s benefit, the eighth-largest funder of 

the National Council of Churches in the United States is the Roman Catholic Church. 

While they are not members of the council, they serve on our commissions dealing with 

communications and justice and advocacy, and we work collaboratively on issues of justice 

for the poor, and we work collaboratively on issues relating to the environment. 

It’s also important to recognize that the Ecumenical Patriarch of the Orthodox 

Church is a person whom we love throughout the Christian community. We call him the 

green patriarch, because he has been a leader in helping the world understand the importance of the environment and care for Planet Earth. 

I speak today in defense of the rights of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of the Orthodox 

Church, which is situated in modern-day Istanbul, Turkey. 

I do so on behalf of the Greek Orthodox brothers and sisters who look to the 

Ecumenical Patriarchate as the cradle of their Christian faith and who look to the 

Ecumenical Patriarch as their spiritual leader. 

The official title of the Ecumenical Patriarch says a lot about why we are here today. 

His title is Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome, and Ecumenical Patriarch. History 

teaches us that when the center of the civilized world moved from Rome to Constantinople 

in the 4th century, the center of the worldwide Christian Church moved with it to what 

was known as the New Rome. From this new setting, Christianity flourished and moved 

across what was then the known world. 

While the subsequent centuries saw the unfortunate division of Christianity into 

Roman Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox communities, each to experience the good and 
17

the bad of history, it nevertheless remains a fact that the ancient See of Constantinople 

retains its place of ecclesial prominence among Orthodox churches and its place of honor 

throughout the entire Christian world—not, incidentally, something that goes unrecognized by Turkey today. 

In reality, the Ecumenical Patriarch is the symbolic leader of the world’s 250 million 

Orthodox Christians, not just Greek Orthodox, and he has direct ecclesial jurisdiction over 

millions of Greek Orthodox Christians throughout the world, including here in the United 

States, where the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is a member of the National 

Council of Churches USA. 

The Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey, centered in the Ecumenical Patriarchate, has 

suffered many indignities by virtue of its existence as the heart of the Greek Orthodox 

minority in that country. Yet, there are mechanisms in place that dictate that this must 

not be so. 

According to the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, which was mentioned earlier, which ended 

World War I, the Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, and Jewish communities are recognized minorities in Turkey, with their rights guaranteed by the Turkish government. 

So central is this treaty to modern Turkey that this treaty takes precedence over the 

Turkish constitution. While the Turkish Constitution itself makes no reference to the recognition of these three specific minorities, it does state that religious freedom is a right 

to be enjoyed by all Turkish citizens. 

Significantly, as recently as 1999, Turkish Government officials recognized the 

minorities mentioned in this treaty. 

Given this legal framework, one would think that the Greek Orthodox community, 

as well as the Armenian Orthodox and Jewish communities have enjoyed an harmonious 

existence within Turkish society. 

As we all know, the converse is true. 

The issue before us today is the systematic expropriation of property owned by 

individuals and institutions, including the Ecumenical Patriarchate, in the Greek 

Orthodox community in Turkey. 

An arbitrary and capricious property rights regime has allowed the confiscation of 

private properties, schools and churches. 

Currently, there are attempts to confiscate an orphanage and an old age home and 

other properties. 

One result of these actions is the disenfranchisement of the Greek Orthodox minority. 

Another result is the diminishment of their presence due to immigration. 

If these violations are allowed to continue, it will not be long before the Greek 

Orthodox faithful in Istanbul, who numbered 110,000 in 1923 and number only several 

thousand today, will disappear. 

This issue should be seen in the context of the violence also visited upon the Greek 

Orthodox minority over the years. Quite memorably, in 1955, pogroms were carried out 

in Smyrna and Istanbul, riots that were subsequently determined to be provoked by the 

Turkish Government at the time. 

I would simply like to close by saying that we in the National Council of Churches 

stand side by side with not only the Greek Orthodox Church, but all the Orthodox Christian family in suggesting strongly that if the Turkish Government wants to be part of the 
18

European Union it must recognize the rights and privileges of the minority faith communities inside Turkey. 

The Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey is a minority community whose history is 

rich, who ecclesial tradition is vibrant, and whose people are faithful. 

Sadly, it is also a church whose future is threatened. 

We urge the Turkish government to change its policies, think more clearly about how 

it relates to both the church and the church’s property, and begin moving into the future 

in relationship with this very important religious tradition that is a minority in the 

community of Turkey. 

Thank you very much. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you so much. 

I’d like to welcome Cardinal McCarrick, who’s now joined us. We look forward to 

hearing your comments, sir. 

Cardinal MCCARRICK. Thank you very much. 

My name is Theodore McCarrick. I’m the Catholic Archbishop of Washington. 

My interest in the difficulties which the Greek Orthodox Church faces in Turkey goes 

back a long time. I’m delighted to have an opportunity to mention my concerns at this 

time to the distinguished members of the Helsinki Commission and to all of you who are 

gathered here. 

A slight digression would be that years ago I was privileged to serve as a public 

member of the Helsinki Commission and attend meetings both in the Balkans and in the 

former Soviet Union. So I know the good work that the Commission has accomplished. 

I’m delighted that you continue to consider the difficulties of freedom of religion as it is 

now faced by the Greek Orthodox Church. 

This morning I speak not on behalf of the Catholic Church, nor on behalf of the Conference of Bishops. I speak solely and purely in my own name, as a friend of the Orthodox 

Church and as one who has had the opportunity, both because of my membership in the 

Helsinki Commission and also my privilege of serving as one of the original members of 

our own federal commission on international freedom of religion. 

It was in both these capacities that I became aware of the difficulties that the Greek 

Orthodox Church in Turkey is facing, where we have always had the hope of bringing 

these problems clearly into the light of day, so that our nation might play a role in 

bringing them to a happy resolution. 

My own interest in this question came about initially when I was privileged to be 

a member of the delegation of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, under the leadership 

of my distinguished colleague and dear friend, Rabbi Arthur Schneier, some years ago. 

Through the kindness of His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew, we were able to 

visit the island of Halki personally, and there to see the seminary which in past times 

had played so important a part in the life of this important religious community. 

Subsequent to that visit, I spoke to a number of agencies in our own government, 

asking that this concern be raised with the Government of Turkey. I believe that in the 

administration of President Clinton this was done in a strong manner, perhaps for the 

first time. I do understand that it has recently been repeated because of the continuing 

interest and concern of President Bush. 
19

The manner in which the Turkish Government, since the days of the Republic, has 

treated the Greek Orthodox Church is an indication of a lack of understanding of the 

importance of this institution. 

Historically, as has been pointed out so well by Dr. Edgar, and I’m sure by others, 

the Greek Orthodox Church has been the guardian of Eastern Christianity over so many 

centuries. 

The head of the church, the Ecumenical Patriarch, has been recognized as a successor 

of the Apostle Andrew, who was first called among all of the apostles of the Lord. His 

role as the spiritual leader of the millions of people throughout the world who the faithful 

of the Orthodox community follow makes him one of the most important religious leaders 

on the globe. 

Unfortunately, to some in the Turkish Government, he’s regarded only as the pastor 

of a small group of several thousand Greek Christians living in Istanbul. 

It is perhaps here which is the basis of the difficulties with the church teachers. It 

is in a lack of true understanding of the importance of the Patriarch and the importance 

of the church. 

Turkey, one would hope, would be so proud to have among its citizens and among 

its religious leaders one whose influence is felt not only far beyond its borders, but, 

indeed, throughout the world. 

The importance of His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew, the present leader of the 

church, is often underlined in the deep respect and esteem in which he is held by the 

other major religious leaders of the world. 

One instance of this would be the manner in which the Holy Father, Pope John Paul, 

received the Ecumenical Patriarch in the Vatican and gave him every honor beyond that 

of any Cardinal that I know and any other ecclesiastical figure. He regards the Patriarch 

as a dear brother and as a true successor of the apostles in every sense of the word. 

It is the Holy Father’s constant reaching out to the Ecumenical Patriarch and to the 

Greek Orthodox Church that prompts so many of us to continue our plea for that church 

to receive, especially in its central headquarters in Istanbul, a respect and a dignity that 

its place among the religions of the world demands for it. 

I know that I would speak for so many Christians throughout our own country when 

I would urge our government to be sensitive to the plight of the Greek Orthodox Church 

in Turkey and to do everything that is possible to make sure that these very reasonable 

and understandable requests which you’ve heard about already today are taken into 

consideration by the Turkish Government and are granted for the good of the Church, 

and, indeed, it would seem to me, also for the good of the Turkish nation—and this in 

a special way as Turkey prepares to make its formal bid into the European Community. 

Prominent, as I began to mention before, prominent among all these requests is the 

reopening of the theological school on the island of Halki. This theological school was in 

a sense the West Point of the Orthodox seminary. Here, many of the leading 

Metropolitans and the great theologians of the Orthodox world were trained. 

As you understand, since the Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen, and since Turkish 

citizens would ordinarily be trained for the priesthood in a seminary such as Halki, the 

closing of the seminary makes it almost impossible for Turkey’s citizens to be prepared 

to accept the highest responsibilities in the church today, thus creating an enormous 

problem for the future of the patriarchy and of the Church itself. 
20

There are, of course, other difficulties which the law on foundations causes for the 

non-Muslim religious communities of Turkey today. The regulations which are in place 

for these religious institutions often base their relations on police ordinances, often oblige 

corporation taxes to be paid by religious institutions, contrary to what is the custom 

throughout the Western world, often freezes revenues from property transactions of nonMuslim religious institutions. 

For years now, the Greek Orthodox Church has tried very gently, and yet very firmly 

and very clearly to negotiate these difficult questions with the Turkish Government and 

has not been successful. 

I’m honored today to take part in this session with my dear brother, His Beatitude 

Archbishop Demetrios, and Dr. Bob Edgar, and of course Rabbi Schneier, and those others 

who have gathered here because of this important request and this important cause that 

joins us all. 

This is a cause which is worth struggling for. It is a good worth striving for. And 

it is a road on which the United States should be walking because of so many consequences that can come for the good of the world if the Greek Orthodox community in 

Turkey has a chance to exercise its religious freedom and to grow in grace and holiness 

under the protection of the law and the respect of its fellow citizens in the Turkish nation. 

This is what I am here to ask for. This is what we all hope for gathering this 

morning. 

Thank you for letting me make this presentation. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you very much, Cardinal. 

And thank you, all of our panelists, for most informative and interesting testimony. 

We’re going to open the floor now to questions. I’m going to take the prerogative of 

the chair and ask the first question, which I’ll address to Archbishop Demetrios, although 

I’d be interested in everybody’s comments on this. 

And that is, as negotiations have gone forward with the Turkish Government for 

accession to the E.U., we haven’t really seen an improvement in the situation vis-a-vis 

the Greek Orthodox Church. I’m wondering if you expect an improvement as the negotiations continue. 

Is your prognosis optimistic? How do you see that situation? 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. Prophetic vision is limited to some old times, and predictions 

are extremely difficult, especially in politics and international politics. But that’s a very, 

very serious question. 

I would like to say, not to use the terminology of optimistic or pessimism, but the 

terminology of hope; of hope and faith that this is a wonderful opportunity during this 

period of processing the accession of Turkey to the European Union. This will be a period 

that will see clear, visible improvements in the relationship between the Turkish Government and the minority communities, especially the Ecumenical Patriarchate. 

It’s a strong hope. And I think not only is it a strong hope, it seems to me it’s something dictated by the very, very well being of the Turkish Government and nation. They 

have to profit immensely from this improvement. It’s not simply something for the patriarchate, it is retroactive much stronger for the Turkish Government itself. 

Thank you. 

Ms. PRYOR. Anybody? Cardinal, please. 
21

Cardinal MCCARRICK. I would just like to add that, if not now, then when? 

This is a moment where the eyes of the whole world are on Turkey and on its relationships with its minority communities. 

This seems to me to be a very special moment. And if we let this moment go, I’m 

not sure when there will be another moment that will have the same opportunity and the 

same pressure. So that I would really hope that there is movement now, and I think that 

the reason for our gathering at this hearing today is our common hope that this is the 

time when this will happen. 

Ms. PRYOR. All right. I’m going to open the floor to questions. 

QUESTIONER. A number of years ago, the Congress passed a resolution—rather I 

should say, there was a resolution, and then an amendment from that resolution was 

passed in the form of an omnibus appropriations bill of the State Department. 

In that amendment it says that the U.S. Government, in its dealings with the 

Turkish Government, should always be bringing up the issue of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and supporting its livelihood, and for the reopening of the Halki School of Theology. 

Can anyone from the panel please tell us today what exactly is the U.S. Government 

doing today to uphold this amendment that has been passed as public law of the United 

States? 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. If I may start myself. 

I think the U.S. Government has been consistently and methodically and systematically trying for this issue. 

I am aware especially of the efforts regarding the opening of the School of Halki. It 

has been a continuous effort. 

I have been, as I mentioned before, I have been present in Constantinople at the 

patriarchate when President Clinton, then sitting President, visited Turkey for some other 

things and had a long talk with President Demirel. And we were expecting him in the 

evening when he visited the patriarchate with good news that finally Halki is opening. 

President Clinton came, with Mrs. Clinton and their entourage. 

He was really deeply, deeply sad. I mean, he was with a face full of pain. He said 

no results, the answer at that time was the timing is not the proper timing and we don’t 

have a legal formula. 

But that was indicative in the person of the president, and that was the same situation with President Bush. That was all along the U.S. Ambassadors in Turkey. 

Dr. Limberakis mentioned the Ambassadors in Turkey went out of their way in support of a policy of facilitating the enforcement by the Turkish Government of this type 

of decision that will somehow eliminate some of the burdens from the patriarchate. 

So my impression is that it has been a continuous effort. Now, the results, it’s 

another story. But I think the effort have been consistently made. 

Ms. PRYOR. Anybody else like to comment on that? 

Dr. LIMBERAKIS. Well, if I may, to echo what His Eminence stated. 

Undersecretary of State Marc Grossman has been in constant consultation with the 

archons and the order as we prepare our trips to Turkey, to Istanbul and to Ankara. It 

is through the State Department that we have been able to obtain the meetings with the 
22

ministers, foreign minister, minister of education, and those particular ministers germane 

to the issue of religious freedom. 

And in our presence, Ambassador Edelman a number of times specifically made reference to reopening Halki, the property issue, the succession issue of the Ecumenical 

Patriarchate and the Ecumenical Patriarch not being a Turkish citizen. 

These are items that were brought up in our presence, in front of the ministers of 

the governing AK party this past year, 2004. 

So I feel that the United States is making an effort to stand firm on this. 

And last, I wish to make reference to what I think is an embarrassing behavior of 

the Turkish Government when the Prime Minister’s office, during our last trip in 

December, issued a statement to all government officials to boycott the two banquets that 

were held in honor of the Ecumenical Patriarchate Bartholomew in Istanbul in honor of 

the Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Ankara that the ambassador was hosting. 

Why? Because the term ‘‘ecumenical’’ was utilized. And that word, ‘‘ecumenical,’’ so 

offended the government that a statement had to be issued by the Turkish Prime Minister’s office banning government officials to attend. 

That very evening, the U.S. Consul General in Istanbul gave a tremendous endorsement of religious freedom, quite frankly using the word and underscoring the word 

‘‘ecumenical’’—you recall, Your Eminence, and there are other members who were with 

us there, Father—while we were in Istanbul, underscoring the title, which was given to 

the church to that position in the 6th century, and the collegial, first-among-equals that 

his position holds among the Orthodox faith. 

So, to answer your question, I feel that the State Department, President Bush and 

President Clinton, have made strong efforts. But you could only lead a horse to water. 

Ms. PRYOR. I’d just like to add to that also that last May, before President Bush went 

to Istanbul for a summit, a NATO summit meeting, 13 members of the Helsinki Commission wrote to him encouraging him to raise these issues. And he did raise them with 

Prime Minister Erdogan. So I agree there has been a consistent effort. 

Cardinal McCarrick has to leave us in a little bit, so is there anybody who has a specific question for him before he must go? 

Well, I thank you very much, sir, for being with us today. 

Cardinal MCCARRICK. I thank you. I thought someone would ask what happened to 

my arm. It’s from 47 years of blessings. [Laughter.] 

Rev. Dr. EDGAR. With all these faith leaders here, you’d think we could heal it. 

Cardinal MCCARRICK. I’m open to that. 

Ms. PRYOR. Other questions? Comments? 

QUESTIONER. To all the panelists: Why you have decided to address this crucial issue 

now and not in the past? Is there any particular reason? 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. To whom are you addressing the question? 

QUESTIONER. To all the panelists. 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. The issue is not addressed now, unless you mean the specific 

format, because the specific format is a result of developments through the time. The 

issue has been constantly addressed and constantly in the minds and in the talks for 

years. 
23

But somehow the event of the discussions of Turkey’s accession to the European 

Union somehow facilitated, expedited, accelerated the speed, therefore caused this type of 

more intense, let’s say, more specific meetings. 

Otherwise, that was more or less happening, in a different form, of course, and different formats. 

Rev. Dr. EDGAR. I was just going to answer your question about why now. 

I think Cardinal McCarrick also said it very strongly. 

This isn’t the first time this issue has been raised. It’s been raised many times. It’s 

been raised in Democratic administrations, Republican administrations, Protestant and 

Roman Catholic administrations. 

It cuts across all the theological and political lines, particularly for those of us in the 

United States who understand the situation. And with all the movement toward the European Union, this is a critical time for this to be raised, not just with the Helsinki Commission, but with all opportunities that we have. When we meet with the State Department. 

When we talk to Condoleezza Rice and talk to others in the administration urging them 

to continue to keep the pressure on. 

When I served in Congress, there was never a good time to raise issues like this. The 

time was always right to raise issues like this. And so I think it’s important for us to 

speak. 

And I’d also commend His Eminence for not only leading this effort today, but we 

joked when Cardinal McCarrick was here about the breadth of religious tradition. Our colleague, the Rabbi, is here, the Roman Catholics were here, the Protestants were here, the 

historic Black church was here, the peace church was here. 

I don’t know of too many other partners that could be here. 

We’ll continue to talk with our colleagues in the Muslim tradition, Islamic tradition, 

here in the United States. 

All of us as Christian traditions are minorities someplace in the world. And contrary 

to the popular belief of Christians, we are a minority on Planet Earth. There are 6.5 billion people on Planet Earth, and Christians make up less than 30 percent of that total. 

So we are all minorities in some way, and we all respect religious facilities, religious 

buildings. My tears flowed when the synagogues were bombed in Istanbul and in Turkey. 

I have six grandchildren, three of whom are Jewish. So I am an historic interfaith family 

and think we need to stand up when others tell us to sit down, and speak out on these 

issues, as creatively and as strongly as we can. We can’t afford religious prejudice anywhere. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you. 

Chad? 

Mr. GORE. And I’d like to address the question from the Commission’s perspective 

as well. 

My name is Chadwick Gore. I’m a staff advisor with the Commission. 

This is not a new topic, neither the situation with the Greek Orthodox in Turkey, 

nor the broader issue of religious liberty in Turkey writ large. We, as a commission, certainly have addressed other states within the OSCE and whether they have failed to meet 

their OSCE commitments or not. 
24

So this is one of a series since the genesis of the commission in 1976 of the Commission looking into whether participating states in the OSCE have fulfilled their commitments. 

I also want the audience to know, and the panel, that this is one of three briefings 

that are tied together. 

We are addressing the problem of the Greek Orthodox in Turkey today. There’ll be 

a subsequent briefing where we look at other faiths within Turkey and the problems 

they’re having, both minority faiths and the Muslims as well, within the foundation law. 

And then a third briefing will be held with the Government of Turkey. I spoke with 

the Turkish Embassy yesterday. I invited them to come here if they wanted to make a 

statement or if they wanted to take questions or submit a written statement for the 

record. They chose not to, for a variety of reasons. Maybe short notice was one of them. 

And so we’ve agreed that they will bring someone, probably from Ankara, and the 

Government of Turkey will give a briefing that will both respond to these issues, as well 

as raise other issues. So at that briefing we intend to address the entire panoply of human 

rights and OSCE commitments within the Turkish framework. 

So I wanted everyone to be aware of that and to look forward to those briefings in 

the future. And they will be in the not-too-distant future. 

They will definitely be announced in the same manner that we do with press releases 

and so forth. 

Ms. PRYOR. Rabbi, did you have a comment also? 

Rabbi SCHNEIER. Yes. There is a comment that I heard the other day from someone 

who plays the lottery. And he said, ‘‘You want to win in the lottery, you have to buy a 

ticket.’’

Now, in order to gain admission to the European Union, every state applying for 

admission and accession has to assume obligations and responsibilities in terms of human 

rights, religious freedom. 

What we’re doing here today in a way could be a great service to the Turkish Government, what we’re saying is—and I made that in my statement—Cardinal McCarrick and 

Dr. Edgar reaffirmed it—give the Ecumenical Patriarch the recognition that he enjoys 

worldwide. 

It has been said that frequently a prophet is not recognized locally. This is what we 

are dealing with in the question of Patriarch Bartholomew I. 

Archbishop Demetrios, We are here because of the affection we have for you. You 

have stood with us on so many different issues in the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, 

in support of human rights. 

His All Holiness is really a gem as a leader for what is needed desperately in this 

world today of conflict among civilizations. And therefore giving him the status that he 

deserves. He can be a formidable ally in terms of admission of Turkey to the European 

Union. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you very much. 

I see that we’ve been joined by Congressman [Frank] Pallone [of New Jersey]. 

I’m wondering if you have a statement, sir, that you would like to make. I invite you 

to the podium. 
25

Mr. PALLONE. There’s only 10 minutes. But I just wanted to say how important this 

issue is to me and to so many of my constituents. And, you know, the idea of continued 

intrusions and making it more and more difficult for the patriarchate to exist in Istanbul 

is, you know, to me totally outrageous. 

And I just appreciate the fact that you’re having this hearing, because it very important. I mean, I have to say that not only have my Greek-American constituents expressed 

concern about what’s happening, but also others, because, as you know, there are other 

Christian leaders, like the Armenian Patriarchate, and they’re all very concerned about 

the future if something isn’t done with the Turkish Government. 

I know that a lot of people feel that because Turkey wants to join the European 

Union now that somehow a lot of these things might change, and that that’s the leverage 

that can be used. And I certainly hope that we’re able to use that leverage. 

But I find that what happens oftentimes is that the Turkish Government will say 

that they’re going to do the right thing when it comes to human rights issues or protecting 

religious minorities, and yet practically speaking it’s not done. 

So as much as the advent of a possible accession to the E.U. presents an opportunity, 

it doesn’t mean that we don’t have to continue to put the pressure on, because this is not 

something that’s just happening today. This has happened many times. 

But it is very important that we here in the United States and other countries 

around the world object to it and to see what we can do to make sure that the patriarchate and its various facilities are protected and are able to continue to operate. 

And I just appreciate again what you’re doing here. 

I hate to run in and run out, but that’s the reality around here. 

Thank you. Thank you. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate your presence here today, too. 

I see that we’ve got a question here. 

QUESTIONER. It seems to me what we are doing today reminds me a little bit of an 

English expression: Preaching to the choir. 

The question arises as to the effectiveness of our activities. 

It is known that Prime Minister Erdogan himself, and also, I think, Secretary Gu ̈l, 

have made commitments to opening the Halki, and then they regressed. 

It is of course a fact, we all know, that presidents, Democrats and Republicans alike, 

made this point, they raised the issue again and again over the years. And nothing is happening in Turkey. 

Are we doing something effective? Is it possible that the Turkish establishment, that 

is the hard line of the Turkish establishment, has prevailed in their internal deliberations, 

leading them to conclude that the cost of doing something for the patriarchate, for 

adhering to what we call civilized behavior, is not affordable for the Turkish political 

establishment, whereas noncompliance brings no cost at all? 

They may look at President Clinton or President Bush or the archons visiting as 

simply pro forma movements that is perhaps activities that U.S. politicians have to do 

to placate their constituencies. They come and tell us, ‘‘Yes, we raised the issue.’’

But no compliance on the part of Turkey bears no costs. Therefore, if they do something will bear a lot of cost for them, but not complying bears no cost at all. 
26

And that is the issue that we have raised earlier. We are doing all these things. What 

are we doing today, is there any follow-up? 

What do we see any effective levers? Can we pull any levers that will actually bring 

some results? 

Is it possible that the U.S. Government will imply or suggest that there will be some 

consequences if they do not proceed with effective compliance with freedom of religion? 

And those are things that are written down in black and white, the legal provisions, as 

we heard earlier. There is clear noncompliance. 

Are there any effective levers? OSCE, can they pull any levers and say, ‘‘You don’t 

comply? Well, you will be censured. You will not be acceptable as a member to the OSCE.’’

The U.S. Government may have levers which I may not know, or the European 

Union, something effective, something that will convey the message to the government, 

to Mr. Erdogan, that there will be real costs for noncompliance. 

Any suggestions please? 

Ms. PRYOR. Anybody want to tackle that? What would be the most effective measures? 

Dr. LIMBERAKIS. If I may comment on that. Two points. 

One, I believe with the European Union activity and the recent activity of Orthodox 

Christians in the United States, clearly have been vocal critics of Turkish persecution, but 

the laity haven’t been as involved as they are now. 

I think we are seeing enhanced activity of the laity in the church to stand side by 

side with our hierarchy in fighting for religious freedom of the spiritual center of Orthodoxy. 

And the other analogy I wish to make is similar to that that was told to me by our 

legal counselor, who is a maritime attorney. And that is, when you try to change direction 

of an ocean liner, it takes the tugboat gradual turns to slowly turn the direction of the 

ocean liner. 

I think what we are dealing with, in fact, is an ocean liner that’s had decades and 

centuries of a condition vis-a-vis the Greek Orthodox Church and minority, and it’s going 

to take time to make changes. But we are having a hearing for the very first time in 

Washington, DC, in the Capitol, with Congressmen and Senators. 

That’s never happened. 

We have the European Union opportunity in which the Church, not just as Americans, but as universal members of the Orthodox faith, whether we are Orthodox from Germany or France or Greece or Britain, will also come to bear on this process. 

So I think there’s enhanced activity, more so than has been in the past. And I am 

hopeful, as His Eminence, although we’ve been discouraged—and we have been discouraged, because in February of 2004 we left high-fiving the foreign ministry in Ankara, 

thinking things were going to reopen in Halki by September. And they even said the 

2004–2005 academic year might be the year. We were very optimistic. But September 

came and went, and now it was December, and we were in Ankara again, and we were 

not given any assurances that things were going to improve. 

But this kind of activity, these hearings, our strategy in Europe, I’m hopeful, as His 

Eminence is hopeful, with his leadership, that perhaps we will make progress. 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. If I may add something. 
27

It’s a very important question really, the idea of compliance, or rather how the idea 

will become a reality, the compliance of the Turkish government to the demands, the very 

fair, to say the least, and just demands. 

So there is a difficult issue, how now you proceed and you produce this type of not 

only willingness, but actual action in implying things. 

But we have to try. And perhaps the whole process of the accession to the European 

Union is perhaps the best opportunity, perhaps—not perhaps, for sure is the best opportunity. 

I don’t know what might be on the part of the State Department policies. They might 

have some other things that they can use which we don’t know. I cannot enter this field 

of international politics. 

That’s very difficult to speak about. 

But let me add anecdotally, I hope I’m allowed to use an anecdotal kind of thing that 

shows something. Last year we did have in New York, in the Metropolitan Museum, the 

big exhibition of the Byzantine art and iconography, as you remember. It was a terrific 

event in which we had 360 exhibits from all over the world, especially the Balkans and 

these areas with basically icons and other items. 

It was a long process. The title, as you know, was ‘‘Byzantium: Faith and Power.’’ 

It was a long process, and during this process the organizing committee isolated a very 

important icon which was in Turkey. It was an icon painted on both sides, a very beautiful piece. 

Now, they tried to, by all means, through the Turkish agencies to get the icon. Just 

impossible. They were desperate. They said, ‘‘We need the icon.’’

At some point, just very shortly before the opening of the exhibition, they said, ‘‘You 

need three months to apply before the whole thing,’’ and there was not 3 months, there 

was a matter of 2 or 3 weeks. 

It so happened that Prime Minister Erdogan came to the States. 

And we asked for a meeting on a number of two or three other items. 

And they told me, ‘‘Can you bring up the subject of the icon?’’

So at the end of a meeting with two or three very serious items, I said, ‘‘Mr. Prime 

Minister, we have an issue here. There is an icon. We tried by all means through the 

Turkish bureaucracy there and the people here in the museum they did everything possible. Can you please, when you return to Istanbul, arrange so that the icon will be sent?’’

Well, within 1 week the icon was here, in New York. 

Now, this is a compliance, so to say, to a demand, but it looks like a minimal thing. 

It happened in a very good way. 

So there is always a possibility, even for much more serious things, to be handled 

in a way that will offer satisfaction to the parties involved. Of course, we are talking 

about much more serious and more much involving issues. However, if there is at some 

point the will, and if there is understanding the significance of a gesture, the gesture will 

be done. But one has to be convincing about that. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you very much. 

Archbishop Demetrios, Rabbi Schneier, Dr. Limberakis, thank you so much for being 

with us today. We know how valuable your time is, and we appreciate very much that 

you gave us so much of it. 
28

And thank everybody who attended today. 

Again, the transcript of this briefing will be on our Web site, csce.org, within a day. 

And this briefing is now closed. Thank you. 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. Ms. Pryor, you allow me a postscript? 

Ms. PRYOR. Yes, of course. 

Archbishop DEMETRIOS. Sorry about that. 

I would like to say something that has to do with an atmosphere, so to say, an 

ambience surrounding this type of problems and events. 

And I don’t want to leave this hall with the wrong impression. 

The Patriarch himself, I mean if you listen to these kind of things, I don’t know, you 

might get some idea about what’s going on there. But one has to be careful about especially what the Patriarch does. 

The Patriarch is in an immediate, very, very cordial, very personal relationship with 

the Jewish community, the Muslims, the Armenians. Every time we were there it was 

always something. ‘‘Can we go?’’—we went, we were there 2 days after the bombing of 

the synagogue—and he said, ‘‘Can we go?’’ after a long—it was a 6-hour meeting in the 

Synod. He said, ‘‘Can we now go and visit the Chief Rabbi?’’ He was with all these kind 

of ruins, et cetera, all the people there. 

Then we were there recently. He said, ‘‘Tonight they have the opening of the rebuilt 

synagogue.’’ We were there. 

The next day, ‘‘You know, this is the end of the Ramadan, let’s go there.’’ There were 

the chief Muslim people there, and they were extremely cordial toward the Patriarch and 

the Patriarch himself. 

In and out, always plenty of photographers, journalists, reporters. 

I noticed—and let me close with that—I noticed something very interesting. It was 

a meeting in UNESCO, in a section of UNESCO in Istanbul. And here is the mayor of 

the city, the minister of culture and education, and other important people from the 

government, and the patriarch. And they speak, one after the other. 

As each one comes up, the podium was higher on the stage, each one comes up, the 

photographers come. 

Well, I was sitting there, and just noticing what’s going on. 

Here comes the minister of culture and education—there are five photographers. 

Comes down. The mayor comes up—there are seven photographers. 

When the Patriarch came up to speak, everybody—I mean, there were 30 photographers there—everybody around there. Everybody says, ‘‘What’s going on?’’ They say, 

‘‘Well, the Patriarch is going to speak.’’

I mean, that shows a relationship which on the human side is very strong. It’s not 

hostile, it’s strong. And that emphasize even more the need of a reciprocal kind of attitude 

on the part of the government and the state agencies in order to just be on the level of 

the simple people that the journalists are, who are extremely, extremely friendly and recognizing the Patriarch. 

So just I thought that we should keep this image on the part of the Patriarch, an 

outgoing, outstretching, beyond any imagination effort to reach out to the people and not 

have anything that could be in any way an excuse for not reciprocity and mutuality in 

responding. 
29

Thank you very much for the postscript. 

Ms. PRYOR. Thank you for those comments also. 

Thank you all for coming. And the briefing is closed. 

[Whereupon the briefing ended at 11:53 a.m.]
30

APPENDICES

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH,

CO-CHAIRMAN 

We are here today in order to review the efforts of the Government of Turkey to 

undermine the existence of the Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey, and to discuss Turkey’s 

obligations under international human rights law, the Turkish Constitution, and the 

Turkish national law. 

The Lausanne Treaty of 1923 does much to protect the rights of the non-Muslim religions in Turkey, but discriminatory treatment continues to hinder the religious freedoms 

of Turkey’s Orthodox minorities. 

The State Department of the United States, as well as the European Commission has 

recently criticized Turkey’s treatment of religious minorities, focusing primarily on the 

legal status of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the obstacles to religious foundations’ ownership and repair of property, the closure of Halki Seminary, and the citizenship of bishops 

elected to the synod. 

Today we will look at The Orthodox Christian Minority’s lack of legal personality, 

their restricted property rights, and the interference in the management of foundations. 

Turkish Authorities have not recognized the Ecumenical Patriarchate as a legal 

entity. As a result, the amount of Patriarchate owned properties have shrunk from 8000 

in 1936, and to 1700 at present; with only 600 of these being legally recognized by the 

General Authority Foundation. Church Community properties, in the form of Parishes, 

Sanctifications, Monasteries, and Shrines ought to be safeguarded, and registered under 

the Ecumenical Patriarchate. 

The Greek Orthodox minority population has shrunk due to the breaking up of the 

minority community by the Turkish Minority Authority. As a result, the Authorities have 

claimed the right to confiscate any foundation that is lacking members or administration. 

Until the present day the Greek Orthodox Minority does not have any, legally bound, central representation, though it is presented as a representative of the Minority at all times. 

There is a real need in Turkey today, if the presence of these institutions and the 

continuation of their existence is still desired, then Turkey must adhere to the Treaty of 

Lausanne and protect the ecclesiastical traditions. Or else the Ecumenical Patriarchate 

will be unable to elect a Patriarch and continue its right of operations. 

Currently, the Greek Orthodox Minority relies heavily upon foreign clergy to make 

up for the lack of manpower of clerics for the manning of various sections of the Patriarchate. Permanent work and residence permits must be given to clerics who are invited. 

Otherwise they will be welcomed only as tourists and must leave the country every three 

months. 

It is imperative to settle the issues of minority education. Schools that have been 

kept open by the Ministry of Education need to be available for use for other non-educational purposes. These are empty school buildings that lack students and have suspended their functions. 

The concern of this Commission—the focus of today’s breifing—is the protection of 

religious rights and freedoms. Turkey’s treatment of the Ecumenical Patriarchate violates 

its obligations under international human rights law. As a party of several international 
31

human rights treaties, a member state of the Council of Europe, and a participating State 

in the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Turkey has taken on binding 

obligations to protect the rights of religious minorities and to prevent discrimination on 

the basis of origin, religion, or ethnicity. Turkey violates these obligations with its law 

and practice restricting the activities of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
32

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, 

COMMISSIONER, COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND

COOPERATION IN EUROPE 

Ladies and Gentlemen, as we have seen in many contexts, the treatment of religious 

minorities is critical to ensuring the right to religious freedom that is inherent in a democracy. Today’s briefing on the Turkish treatment of the Greek Orthodox Church highlights 

why we must continue to be vigilant on this issue. 

Turkey, as a participating State of the Organization for Security and Cooperation for 

Europe, is required to meet commitments on religious liberty. In light of these commitments, the treatment of the Greek Orthodox Church, and in particular the School of Theology at Halki, is of concern. This university-level theological seminary, founded in 1844 

to train Greek Orthodox clergy, educators and scholars, was closed in 1971 when Turkish 

authorities nationalized all private universities. Closure of this world-renowned facility 

deprived the Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey of a critical training site for future 

leaders. Yet, while private universities have since been allowed to reopen, seminaries 

remain closed. The 1989 Vienna Concluding Document commits the participating States 

to ‘‘allow the training of religious personnel in appropriate institutions’’. Therefore, we 

must question the basis for the continued closure of the School of Theology. 

Another issue concerning the treatment of the Orthodox Christian minority in Turkey 

involves the ecumenical authority of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch. Unofficial Turkish 

government policy mandates that only Turkish citizens can hold church leadership positions. Yet, due to the closure of the Halki Seminary and the declining Greek population 

in Turkey, this has proven an increasingly difficult challenge. In response to this situation, the Patriarch has appointed several foreign clerics to positions on the Synod. This 

action should be acceptable since it is fully consistent with the Vienna Concluding Document, which declared that participating States will ‘‘respect the right of . . . religious 

communities to organize themselves according to their own hierarchical and institutional 

structure,’’ as well as ‘‘select, appoint and replace their personnel in accordance with their 

respective requirements and standards’’. 

Reopening the Greek Orthodox School of Theology and allowing the church the 

freedom to appoint its own personnel would send a strong signal that Turkey respects the 

rights of religious minority communities in keeping with its OSCE commitments. 

I urge the Commission to continue to address these issues with Turkey.
33

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HIS EMINENCE ARCHBISHOP 

DEMETRIOS 

The Ecumenical Patriarchate continues to suffer from excessively unfair and 

unacceptable treatment at the hands of the Turkish state. Three examples of such treatment include: 

1.) The closure of the Theological School of Halki (on the island of Heybeli) in 1971. 

The Theological School of Halki is the only institution of the Ecumenical Patriarchate for 

the training of its clergy. One cannot underestimate its importance for the essential survival of the Ecumencial Patriarchate. 

2.) The continuous confiscation of Church property by the Turkish government, which 

refuses to recognize titles to Greek minority properties purchased or acquired by donation 

after 1936. 

• Recently, the Supreme Court of Turkey allowed the government to confiscate a very 

large and historic orphanage belonging to the Greek Orthodox community on the island 

of Pringipo. 

• Approximately 1400 properties belonging to the Ecumenical Patriarchate have been 

confiscated, 152 of which have been taken from the Baloukli hospital in Istanbul. Today, 

the Baloukli hospital is threatened with bankruptcy by the recent imposition of an 

unbearable retroactive tax on the grounds that it is not considered a non-profitable 

organization. 

3.) The refusal of the Turkish government to recognize the legitimate ‘‘Ecumenical’’ 

title of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, a title historically established since the sixth century 

and internationally recognized by political and religious communities. 

The very existence of these problems in Turkey is distressing, particularly at a time 

when the international community is especially sensitive to the importance of religious 

freedom, human rights, and the protection of the rights of minorities. The lawful right 

of the Greek Orthodox community and other minorities in Turkey to contemplate a secure 

existence and a prosperous future must be protected.
34

EXHIBITS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD BY DR. ANTHONY 

LIMBERAKIS, M.D. 

[NOTE. The following exhibits have been retained in the Commission’s files.] 

1. Turkey’s Compliance With Its Obligations to the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the 

Orthodox Christian Minority, by Maria Burnett, Maria Pulzetti, and Sean Young of the 

Yale University School of Law; Executive Summary and Complete Treatise 

2. The Ecumenical Patriarchate, A Brief Guide, by Fr. John Chryssavgis 

3. A Fact Sheet on the Ecumenical Patriarchate 

4. Supreme Court Decision of Turkey regarding the confiscation of Patriarchal 

Orphanage of Island of Bu ̈ yu ̈kada, October 21, 2004

5. Human Rights—Turkey on the Road to Europe—Religious Freedom? by The 

Catholic Church’s Pontifical Mission Society, Human Rights Office, Otmar Oehring—2004

6. The Return of the Relics, DVD, the Return of the Holy Relics of St. Gregory the 

Theologian and St. John Chrysostom by Pope John Paul II to Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew 

7. Listing of Properties Confiscated by Government of Turkey from Balukli Hospital 

and Home for the Aged, Istanbul, Turkey, from 1974 to 2002; Certified by Demetrios 

Karagianis, Chairman, Board of Trustees, Balukli Hospital 

8. The Ecumenical Patriarchate, CD–ROM, sponsored by the Order of St. Andrew / 

Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in America
35

PREPARED STATEMENT OF REV. DR. BOB EDGAR, GENERAL 

SECRETARY, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES 

Thank you to all members of the Helsinki Commission for this opportunity to speak 

to you today. 

I am the General Secretary of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the 

USA, which is composed of 36 national churches that collectively represent some 45 million Christians in approximately 100,000 congregations across the country. These 

churches come from the Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Protestant 

traditions, the latter of which includes the mainline, peace, and historic black churches. 

I am also a former Member of the House of Representatives, having served the 7th 

District of Pennsylvania for six terms, from 1975 to 1987. In between Congress and the 

National Council of Churches USA, I worked on national security issues here in Washington and was also President of the Claremont School of Theology in California. I am 

an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church. 

I speak to you today in defense of the rights of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of the 

Orthodox Church, which is situated in modern-day Istanbul, Turkey. I do so on behalf of 

my Greek Orthodox brothers and sisters who look to the Ecumenical Patriarchate as the 

cradle of their Christian faith, and who look to the Ecumenical Patriarch as their spiritual 

leader. 

The official title of the Ecumenical Patriarch says a lot about why we are here today. 

His title is: Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome, and Ecumenical Patriarch. History 

teaches us that, when the center of the ‘‘civilized’’ world moved from Rome to Constantinople in the 4th century, the center of the worldwide Christian Church moved with it to 

what was then known as the New Rome. From this new setting, Christianity flourished 

and moved across what was then the known world. While the subsequent centuries saw 

the unfortunate division of Christianity into Roman Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox 

communities, each to experience the good and the bad of history, it nevertheless remains 

a fact that the ancient See of Constantinople retains its place of ecclesiastical prominence 

among the Orthodox Churches and its place of honor throughout the entire Christian 

world, not incidentally something that goes unrecognized by Turkey today. 

In reality, the Ecumenical Patriarch is the symbolic leader of the world’s 250 million 

Orthodox Christians. And he has direct ecclesiastical jurisdiction over millions of Greek 

Orthodox Christians throughout the world, including here in the United States, where the 

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is a member of the National Council of Churches 

USA. 

The Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey, centered in the Ecumenical Patriarchate, has 

suffered many indignities by virtue of its existence as the heart of the Greek Orthodox 

minority in that country. Yet there are mechanisms in place that dictate that this must 

not be so. 

According to the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, which ended World War I, the Greek 

Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, and Jewish communities are recognized minorities in Turkey, with their rights guaranteed by the Turkish Government. So central is the Treaty 

of Lausanne to modern Turkey that this treaty takes precedence over the Turkish constitution. While the Turkish constitution itself makes no reference to the recognition of 

these three specific minorities, it does state that religious freedom is a right to be enjoyed 
36

by all Turkish citizens. Significantly, as recently as 1999, Turkish Government officials 

recognized the minorities mentioned in the Lausanne Treaty. 

Given this legal framework, one would think that the Greek Orthodox community (as 

well as the Armenian Orthodox and Jewish communities) has enjoyed a harmonious existence within Turkish society. As we all know, the converse is true. 

The issue before us today is the systematic expropriation of property owned by 

individuals and institutions, including the Ecumenical Patriarchate, in the Greek 

Orthodox community in Turkey. An arbitrary and capricious property rights regime has 

allowed the confiscation of private properties, schools and churches; currently there are 

attempts to confiscate an orphanage and an old age home. One result of these actions is 

the disenfranchisement of the Greek Orthodox minority. Another result is the diminishment of their presence due to emigration. If these violations are allowed to continue, it 

will not be long before the Greek Orthodox faithful in Istanbul, which numbered 110,000 

in 1923 and numbers only 2,000 today, will disappear. 

This issue should be seen in the context of the violence also visited upon the Greek 

Orthodox minority over the years. Quite memorably, in 1955, pogroms were carried out 

in Smyrna and Istanbul, riots that were subsequently determined to be provoked by the 

Turkish Government at the time. Fast forward to the 1990s, when the Ecumenical Patriarchate was the victim of numerous physical attacks, culminating perhaps most egregiously in a bombing in 2004, the perpetrators of which were never brought to justice by 

the current Turkish Government. 

And finally, what of policy? In the oft-repeated issue of the Halki Theological School, 

the Turkish Government has refused to allow it to reopen as a school purportedly under 

a policy seeking to maintain civil order. I, for one, find the application of such a policy 

in this case to be dubious at best. 

The Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey is a minority community whose history is 

rich, whose ecclesiastical tradition is vibrant, and whose people are faithful. Sadly, it is 

also a Church whose future is threatened. The one question we must ask ourselves is this: 

At a time when Turkey seems to be staking its future on its membership in the European 

Union, can we stand idly by when the future of a religious minority in Turkey—and one 

with a 2,000-year presence in that country!—is threatened through systematic expropriation, violence, and government policy? 

On behalf of the Christian Churches in the National Council of Churches USA, whose 

quest for theological unity is manifested in the common search for justice and peace, I 

urge the US Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe to insist on, and work 

toward, the fair and just treatment of the Greek Orthodox and other religious minorities 

in Turkey, and for the protection of their legal and human rights, as mandated by Turkish 

and international law. 

Thank you for taking up this important matter. 

Æ



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