Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 RECEIVED 

BEFORE THE 

2013 

HEARING DOCK T 

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

In Re: Docket No.: 

FAA-2013-0042 

SCOTT TICE 

Respondent. 

Washington, D.C. 

Thursday, May 16, 2013 

The following pages constitute the proceedings 

held in the above-captioned matter before the 

HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, held at Office of Hearings, 

M-20, U.S. Department of Transportation, 1200 New 

Jersey Avenue, S.E., Washington, D.C., before Janel B. 

Folsom of Capital Reporting Company, beginning at 

approximately 11:03 a.m. 

(866) 448- DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

. ~ ; 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

2 

APPEARANCES I Accept the Late Answer, and Granting/Denying Other 

On behalf of the Agency: 2 Relief was filed. After that order was issued, on May 

R. BENNETT SARGENT, IV 3 9, 2013, the parties filed a joint proposed ER 26(t) 

New England Region 4 scheduling and discovery plan. In addition, on May 9, 

Oftice of the Regional Counsel 5 2013, the FAA filed a Renewed Motion for Order Deeming 

12 New England Executive Park 6 Allegations Admitted and to Limit Hearing to the Issue 

Burlington, Massachusetts 01803 7 of Civil Penalty, which I'm going to refer to in this 

8 telephone conference today as the FAA's renewed motion. 

On behalf of the Respondent: 9 Lastly, prior to convening this morning on May 15, 

SCOTT TICE, PRO SE 10 2013, Mr. Tice, the prose Respondent, filed a letter 

II response to the FAA's renewed motion. 

Also Present: 12 So we have a couple of different things to 

EMILY SINGER HURVITZ 13 talk about today, and I think the best thing to do is 

ANDY ORR 14 to talk first about the motion and response and also 

15 talk about the issue of venue, and then we can talk 

16 about setting the matter for litigation, what type of 

17 litigation, how much time is needed and so forth. 

18 Does that work for you, Mr. Sargent? 

19 MR. SARGENT: That works great, Your Honor. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Tice, does that also 

21 work for you in terms of the plan, what we're going to 

22 do today? 

3 

PROCEEDINGS 1 MR. TICE: Yes, it does. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the record in the 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then let's talk first 

matter of Scott Tice. This is Docket Number FAA-2013- 3 about the FAA's renewed motion and the Respondent's 

0042. Today is Wednesday, May 15, 2013 (sic), and the 4 letter response to that motion. And to do that, what 

parties have convened for a Rule 16 litigation 5 I'm going to do is just tell both of you that I've read 

scheduling conference. The attorney for the Federal 6 all of your materials. So the question now is whether 

Aviation Administration, which I'll hereinafter refer 7 or not you want to use some of the time today to 

to as the FAA, is R. Bennett Sargent, IV. The 8 actually argue that motion before me, if you feel 

Respondent Scott Tice is present, and he's acting pro 9 comfortable doing that. 

se. Also present at the Office of Hearings hearing 10 And so I want to turn first to you, Mr. 

room sitting in as observers only are Emily Singer 11 Sargent, and ask you ifthat's --if it would be 

Hurvitz, a law student intern with this office, and 12 acceptable for you to argue that motion today? 

Andy Orr, also a law student intern. Welcome 13 MR. SARGENT: I'd be happy to do that now if 

everybody. 14 that works for everyone, Your Honor. 

As you can probably hear from my voice, I'm a 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. Tice, what 

little bit under the weather. However, my mind remains 16 about you? Do you think you would be prepared to argue 

sharp, and I hope we can take care of a variety of 17 that motion today? 

things this morning. 18 MR. TICE: Yes, I-- to the best of my 

I'm just going to identifY a couple ofthings 19 abilities, yes. 

so that we all know where we are. In essence, as you 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me stay with you 

may recall, on May 1, 2013, an Order Accepting the Pro 21 for a minute, Mr. Tice, and just talk to you a little 

Se Respondent's Response, Finding Good Cause Exists to 22 bit about this motion to make sure you understand what 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www .CapitalReportingCompany .com © 2013 

4 

5 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

6 

it is. Essentially, what the FAA has said in its I I st order that was issued by Your Honor, the FAA filed 

written material is that you have acknowledged and 2 its renewed motion based on an examination of the 

admitted in your written material that the violations 3 accepted answer of the Respondent. So in that 

that they've alleged against you actually took place 4 examination, going through each numbered paragraph that 

and that in essence, the only issue in dispute is what 5 Respondent addressed, it became evident and clear that 

fine, if any, should be charged against you for those 6 there -- that the Respondent essentially does not 

violations. 7 dispute any fact that was alleged in the FAA's 

In your response, what it looked to me was 8 complaint such that there is no dispute that, in fact, 

that you didn't deny that the violations took place. 9 that all facts which support the FAA's allegations and 

Instead, you raised some defenses about them, 10 the regulations that were cited were essentially agreed 

and I'm going to kind of highlight what those are, and II to and do not remain in dispute. So the facts that 

you can tell me if I'm-- if I've read your materials 12 were alleged in addition to the regulatory violations 

carefully enough. I fi understand your response, 13 cited again were admitted to based on our review of the 

you're arguing the following: 14 Respondent's answer which leaves us with the only 

Number one, that even if the violations took 15 matter remaining in dispute as to the civil penalty 

place, they're not wm1hy of prosecution because it 16 and/or the appropriateness thereof 

didn't result in actual harm. 17 Again, based on the remainder of the 

They weren't intentional, number two. 18 information contained in Respondent's answer, in 

Number three, that similar offenses have not 19 addition to essentially the conversations that myself 

been prosecuted. 20 and Respondent have had throughout the matter and my 

And number four, that the amount of fuel was 21 understanding of those conversations, it really appears 

so minimal that it really didn't constitute the hazard 22 evident at this point that Respondent's, and in 

7 

that the FAA claims that it did. 1 accordance with Respondent's own words just a few 

ls that a fair summary of your defenses in 2 minutes ago based on your sort of outline of his 

this motion, Mr. Tice? 3 argument, it really appears at this point as though 

MR. TICE: Yes, it is, Your Honor. 4 there is no reasonable dispute about the fact that a 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, then what I'm 5 violation did occur as alleged, and the regulations 

going to do, and this is pretty standard in these kinds 6 that were cited were, in fact, violated, that the only 

of proceedings, is that the prosecuting agent always 7 thing that we're left to discuss, you know, is the 

goes first, and then the responding party goes second. 8 amount of the civil penalty and/or the appropriateness 

So it's just kind of a general rule that we follow so 9 thereof That seems to be Respondent's position, and 

that everybody knows when it's time to talk. 10 ce11ainly he'll have the opportunity to discuss his 

So Mr. Sargent, why don't you take five 11 position on that matter. But again, all facts which 

minutes or less, just whatever time you need, to 12 remain in dispute speak only to that issue based on all 

highlight points that you think this Court needs to 13 the evidence on the record at this point. 

know in support of your motion to deem the allegations 14 And so the FAA has moved that, in fact, that 

admitted, reserving the civil penalty matter for trial. 15 you issue an order deeming all allegations admitted 

Please go ahead. 16 which would limit any hearing in this matter to the 

MR. SARGENT: Yes, Your Honor. 17 issue of the civil penalty. We believe that obviously 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: You can go ahead now. 18 would certainly shape the scope of any discovery and/or 

MR. SARGENT: Okay. Thanks. Okay. Your 19 evidentiary issues that are remaining, would ce11ainly 

Honor, so essentially what I'm -- I'll attempt to as 20 serve to limit the scope of the hearing as well as any 

briefly as possible outline and summarize the motion 21 resources to be committed to such a hearing. So as a 

that I filed on May 9th. So in accordance with the May 22 result thereof, the FAA would respectfully request that 

(866) 448- DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

8 

9 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

10 

you issue an order deeming the allegations admitted and 1 MR. TICE: That is correct. 

limiting any hearing in this matter to the issue of the 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And according to the 

civil penalty. 3 service list I have, and I'm going to go to that, 

JUDGE SULLJV AN: Thank you very much, 4 that's in Barronett, B-A-R-R-0-N-E-T-T, Wisconsin? 

counsel. And I may return to you to ask you to respond 5 MR. TICE: That is my post office, yes. 

to some points that Mr. Tice may raise. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What's the nearest 

Mr. Tice, why don't you take five minutes 7 city to which you are located? Where -- what -- are 

now, or less, however much time you would like, to 8 you nearby? 

identifY the highlights of your responsive position? 9 MR. TICE: We're about a two hours' drive 

MR. TICE: My response is exactly as you 10 from Minneapolis, which is the largest large city. 

outlined. First, that I made a simple mistake. You 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

know, these things happen regularly. People mistakenly 12 MR. TICE: Duluth is a similar distance away 

forget that they have items that are prohibited, and 13 -- those items are confiscated, and that's the end of the 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So either Minneapolis 

matter. That would seem to me to be very appropriate 15 or Duluth would have a law library. And do you have 

in this case. 16 access to the Internet at home? 

I also feel that since -- I'm not even clear 17 MR. TICE: Oh, I do, yes. 

if the FAA's actually alleging that I did anything that 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Even easier. If you 

endangered anyone. I don't exactly see that 19 go online and do a Google search, you can actually look 

specifically stated anywhere, but that might just be my 20 up these regulations by just typing in their citation 

lack of understanding oflegalmatters. But the amount 21 into the Google search line. And you probably didn't 

of fuel that was contained in that canister that I had 22 know this, but I'm going to tell you now about it. 

11 

used for cooking purposes on my backpacking trip was I Those regulations that you see cited in the violations 

very, very small, and I have asked that that canister 2 portion of your Complaint are actually citations to law 

be weighed so we can determine exactly how small, and I 3 material to give you an opportunity to read the law 

hope that will happen at some point in the future. 4 itself. So if you look at-- do you have the copy of 

So I don't feel like I endangered anyone. I 5 the Complaint in front of you? 

made a simple mistake. I don't think it's worthy of 6 MR. TICE: I don't have it in front of me, 

prosecution, and I'm just asking that we -- you -- that 7 no, but I do have it at home. 

the matter be deemed insignificant and a fine not be 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'm going to 

levied. 9 just mention this to you so that when you go home, you 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me ask you a 10 can actually do this for yourself So if you look at 

couple questions about this before I turn back to Mr. II page 4 of the 7-page complaint that was issued against 

Tice (sic). The first question is did you by any 12 you, on page 4, paragraph 6, it says what the proper 

chance read the regulations that were in the Complaint 13 shipping name for the fuel that you had packed in your 

issued against you, that being those regulations that 14 bags is called and the hazard class that it's been 

are identified by numbers such as 49 C.F.R. 15 assigned as well as the assigned identification number. 

172.600(c)(l)? Did you go to a library, by any chance, 16 And then on paragraph 9, it gives you a legal citation 

and look those regulations up to see what they said? 17 that says 49 C.F.R. Section 172.204, subsection (a) or 

MR. TICE: No, ma'am, I did not do that. I 18 subsection (c)(l). When you do your Google search, if 

don't actually know how to do that. 19 you want to do this, type in those numbers, 49 C.F.R. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Ifl recall, and I'm 20 Section 172.204(a). And I can guarantee you 

going to look at my materials just to make sure, you 21 that up will pop a law that is labeled under that 

live in the state of Wisconsin. Is that correct? 22 citation: 49 is the name of the book chapter or the 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

12 

13 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

14 

book, the volume of the book; C.F.R. stands for Code of 1 MR. TICE: Well, it seems to me that the 

Federal Regulations; and Section 172 is the chapter; 2 points of these regulations are to keep planes and 

essentially 204 is the subsection under the chapter and 3 passengers safe. And it seems to me that the amount of 

so forth . .It will bring that right up to your 4 harmful material plays into that very -- I mean, that's 

attention so that you don't feel like you don't have 5 a huge difference. I've noted in what I put down in 

enough information. You can access all this 6 writing that this fuel is called isobutane. Butane is 

information for yourself. 7 the fuel that's in cigarette lighters. Cigarette 

Let me ask you another question. You had 8 lighters are permitted on planes. So it seems to me 

said that you think that weighing the fuel container 9 that the FAA, you know, realizes that, you know, some 

would be helpful to show how much fuel was in it. I 10 small amount of these harmful materials are -- can 

take it you do not have the fuel container anymore; it 11 reasonably safely be brought on planes. 

was seized at the airp011'l 12 So I don't understand exactly-- well, I mean 

MR. TICE: Yes, it was. That's correct. 13 what you're telling me about strict interpretation and 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And based on your 14 the other interpretation makes sense to me on a 

recollection of the fuel container when you last used 15 layman's level. But I certainly don't have any legal 

it, do you have any idea of how much fuel might have 16 expertise to address that. But I do understand that if 

been in it? 17 the law is interpreted precisely to the letter that I 

MR. TICE: Well, like I said, the best I can 18 imagine I am guilty of an offense. Well, I'm sure I'm 

say at this point is nearly empty. I had used it my 19 guilty of an offense. It just seems to me that this 

entire trip. When you use this -- these type of 20 whole, you know, that justice, what's just and fair and 

canisters, at first they put out a very hot, you know, 21 right should come into play. And that's what I'm 

flame. And as they get down, the flame gets 22 hoping is that -- it would seem to me that justice 

15 

diminished. And that was to the point where I was sort 1 isn't served or furthered by penalizing me for a simple 

of thinking, you know, I really should try to conserve 2 mistake that really didn't endanger anyone, and that's 

this fuel just to make sure I make it to the end of the 3 what I'm just hoping will be the ruling. 

trip. And so I was acting that way. I was worried, 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me ask you a 

you know, a little bit worried about running out. 5 question about similar offenses not being prosecuted. 

I think it was less than ten percent full, 6 Can you identify where you get that infonnation? 

but it seems like it would be a very simple matter to 7 MR. TICE: Oh, well, I've seen it myself. 

clear that up so we don't have to be talking about what 8 I've also mistakenly forgot to taken a pocket knife out 

I think. It should be a simple thing to establish this 9 of my pocket and had it confiscated, and you know, I 

as a fact. 10 realize that that's something that's also prohibited. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, the question I have to 11 And you know, I make no objection to -- I'm sorry. I 

ask though is that if there was any fuel in it at all, 12 shouldn't have had that in my pocket. Thank you for 

then if the regulation is strictly applied, it doesn't 13 finding it. You know, please dispose of it which is 

matter how much was in there. I'm wondering -- 14 what I thought had happened in this case. When this 

MR. TICE: Yes, I-- I'm sorry. 15 whole event unfolded, 1 had no idea that it was going 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- ifyou understand the 16 to be, it was going to be prosecuted. It just seemed 

difference between strict construction of a regulation 17 that, you know, the fuel canister was taken, and that 

versus an interpretive construction, you know, where if 18 was the end of it. And I've talked to other people who 

you had any fuel in it at all, then you're subject to 19 said oh, yeah, I was out west on a hunting trip, and I 

the regulation. How would it matter in your opinion 20 actually had live, you know, shotgun shells still in my 

whether it was one ounce, two ounces or one-fifth of an 21 pocket that I completely forgot about and, you know, 

ounce? 22 they found them and took them and, you know, that's the 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

16 

17 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

18 

end of it. I've not known anyone who's made a mistake I that and say I am not the prosecution agent. And so it 

like this who's been prosecuted. 2 is not for me to make the prosecuting decision. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, unlike you, I see 3 MR. TICE: Yes. Those comments were comments 

these kinds of cases quite often. 4 that I initially made to Mr. Sargent. I believe he is 

MR. Tl CE: I'm sure you -- 5 the one that decides whether to prosecute this or not, 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yeah. So I would agree with 6 and he has told me that he can't really decide that 

you that sometimes they come up to me, and sometimes 7 either, that you know, since it happened, he has to 

they don't. So there may be some uneven prosecution, 8 prosecute it. It's just something that I don't quite 

but once the case gets before me, that is not an issue 9 understand because, like I said, I mean other offenses 

that I can address. That would be an issue that's 10 of the similar-- that seem similar to me, in my mind, 

addressed more properly, I think, to the FAA officials. II I know aren't prosecuted. I'm kind of confused as to 

They are not -- 12 what makes me-- what-- the mistake I made so much 

MR. TICE: And I raised those concerns to the 13 different. But--

feds, FAA officials -- 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Again, I join you in that 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Excellent. Yes, I 15 concern. I can tell you that there are cases that I 

would encourage you to do that. 16 see that are very similar to yours that are prosecuted, 

Let me ask you about this assertion that you 17 cases that I see that are far more egregious than yours 

offered the checked baggage and thought it had been 18 that are prosecuted, and I've heard people tell me, 

taken care of. Were you present when the TSA personnel 19 just like you have done, that they have had friends or 

in the Vermont Regional Airport did the inspection of 20 have heard about people that have had things 

your bags? 21 confiscated at the airport who never heard from the FAA 

MR. TICE: Yes. It's a very small airpmt, 22 and never got prosecuted. So why that is I'm not quite 

19 

and I mean I didn't actually see them go through the I sure. So I would agree with you that there is some 

bag, but after they went through the bag, the ticket 2 inconsistency in the prosecution of individuals who 

agent called me up to the counter and said that they 3 appear at airpmts and then have things in their bags 

had found this canister, and I said ah, I've not -- I 4 or on their person prosecuted. 

totally forgot. You know, can you dispose of it, and 5 Is there anything else-- add to your primary 

that's what I thought had happened and was the end of 6 argument at this point, Mr. Tice? 

it. 7 MR. TICE: No. I've done the best I can, and 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So the fuel didn't 8 it seems like you've listened to me, and I appreciate 

get on the -- it didn't get into the airplane itself? 9 that. 

MR. TICE: No, no, no. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're very welcome. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You had indicated 11 Mr. Sargent, I have a couple questions to ask 

that it was not wmthy of prosecution. I can hear you 12 you, and I'd like you to respond to them. There's been 

when you say that you don't think that this is 13 an assertion at least by Mr. Tice that there might be a 

something that should have been pursued. Just so that 14 de minimis exception to this type of scenario if the 

you know, as I read your written materials, you had 15 amount in the fuel canister is small enough. Can you 

made some assertions that the Court shouldn't-- not 16 tell me if such a de minimis exception would exist for 

allow the prosecution -- I'm going to look at -- 17 this type of hazardous materia]? 

MR. TICE: Well, I'm sorry. I'm not sure 18 MR. SARGENT: Sure. Your Honor, I would turn 

that that's something -- I don't know if that's 19 your -- in fact, there is no de minimis exception for 

something that you can decide or not. That part is 20 this type of material. This material is strictly 

just my opinion. 21 forbidden for transportation aboard passenger-carrying 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yeah. I would just clarity 22 aircraft, and I think that may -- there may be -- that 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

20 

21 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

22 

may be the distinction and may hopefully clear up some I Mr. Tice's baggage was confiscated. Do you even have 

of the confusion that appears to be at present with 2 any idea if it still exists for examination at this 

regard to the FAA's prosecutorial decisions in this 3 time? 

matter. 4 MR. SARGENT: J don't believe so, Your Honor. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Could you-- 5 And based upon Mr. Tice's statement, and J think the 

MR. SARGENT: J would-- yes, Your Honor. 6 information that we have in our file, he had asked them 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- stop you. I've probably 7 to dispose of it at the time it was confiscated. 

erred by using that term and not explaining it. Can 8 Typically, and again one of the other issues of 

you explain to both Mr. Tice and myself what a de 9 confusion may be with regard to, you know, the agent --

minimis exception is and where it might be found in 10 the fact that there was more than one agency sort of 

some circumstances? What does that mean? II involved in the matter. The TSA, which is not the same 

MR. SARGENT: Well, a de minimis exception 12 as the FAA, is typically the agency that is responsible 

would be for certain types and only certain types of 13 for inspecting the passengers' baggage and confiscating 

regulated materials can be offered in small or minute 14 the material if they, you know, they find something. 

quantities provided that certain other steps are taken, 15 In this case, it looks like from the 

that they're declared properly or packaged, labeled, 16 information that I have and Mr. Tice had had, and 

all that sort of thing. It only applies to certain 17 typically what they'll do is they will confiscate it 

types of materials, and it only applies to certain 18 and -- or in fact remove from the baggage, and then 

quantities of those types of materials. 19 once they contact the passenger they'll ask the 

Unfortunately for Mr. Tice, the material 20 passenger what they would like to do with it. You 

offered at issue here is not one of those. In fact, 21 know, obviously it can't travel aboard the aircraft. So 

liquefied petroleum gas is specifically prohibited such 22 the passenger, I guess, at that point, would have the 

23 

that -- and I heard Your Honor state that the quantity I option as to whether they would want someone to come 

necessarily wouldn't be relevant to the violations at 2 pick it up or simply dispose of it. And Mr. Tice, 

issue here. Not only is that correct, J would take it 3 apparently in this case, elected to have it disposed 

a step further. Even if the canister was empty, 4 of, you know, and so maybe led to some more confusion 

because this material is forbidden, it can't be offered 5 because obviously by the time the FAA and then 

for transport aboard the passenger-carrying aircraft. 6 obviously the TSA or the airport person or actually the 

And I can turn your attention to 49 C.F.R. 7 airlines are typically responsible for notifying the 

173.29, which deals specifically with empty packages 8 FAA of when these types of hazardous materials are, in 

and which essentially states that unless it's-- and it 9 fact, found. And then so by the time the FAA agent 

also provides an exception so that if you completely-- 10 gets to it, which appears to have happened in this 

if you can prove that you completely purged the 11 case, the actual container had already been disposed 

canister of the material, you could potentially offer 12 of. 

it for transport. But with regard to this type of 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you another 

material, even if it's empty, the regulation 14 question. It appears undisputed by the pat1ies that 

essentially states that it needs to be offered in the 15 the canister was found and disposed of before it 

same manner that would be required if it was containing 16 entered the airplane. Mr. Tice has raised an argument 

a greater quantity of that hazardous material. So 17 in response to your renewed motion that in essence his 

essentially, it wouldn't matter what the actual 18 actions, which were unintentional, did not result in 

quantity was. And because this material is forbidden, 19 any actual harm. So why would your client, the FAA, 

no quantity can be offered. 20 seek to pursue this prosecution? Do you have an 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you a follow-up 21 opinion or information about that? Why is it important 

question to that. So the canister that was offered in 22 for your client to pursue this allegation? 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

24 

25 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

IO 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

26 

MR. SARGENT: Sure. And in response to that, 1 safe, you know, once the material is offered, it's a 

I would obviously-- we have a sanctioned guidance 2 safety risk. Whether it gets on the plane or not is 

policy, you know, sort of the direction that we follow, 3 not something that we would consider as a mitigating 

and that guides our decision making with regards to 4 factor. And obviously, our sanction policies are set 

these types of cases. So with regard to that 5 with the idea of deterrence in order to make sure that 

statement, one of the things we consider when we assess 6 these types of violations don't occur. And so I think, 

a civil penalty are, you know, mitigating and 7 you know, to consider that no one was actually harmed 

aggravating factors. 8 in this matter is sort of-- sort of undermines that 

And the guidance, the policy which is 9 portion of our policy and sort ofundennines the 

contained in FAA Order 2150.3B, which is also publicly 10 deterrent effect of us and of the FAA as an 

available, and there's a particular section dealing 11 organization and its role as -- in the enforcement of 

with the enforcement of hazardous materials regulations 12 hazardous materials regulations. 

violations. You know, that section sort of sets out 13 I mean they're not there to try to make 

the factors that we consider, how we, sort of how we go 14 people feel bad or to try to necessarily take money out 

about determining what our sanction is and the things 15 of people's wallets purposefully. But unfortunately, 

that we consider. That policy, you know, in and of 16 it's been determined that this is the best way to deter 

itself specifically states that if a package contains 17 these types of, you know, even when they're mistakes, 

forbidden material a maximum penalty should be 18 as Mr. Tice alleges here, they create situations where, 

assigned. And we have a chart that sets out the ranges 19 you know, dangerous goods could be sitting in the cargo 

for penalties according to the type of violation, you 20 aircraft of a plane. And again, you know, even with an 

know, whether it's an individual or a business and a 21 empty canister, all you need is some fumes and a spark 

number of other factors that we consider. 22 in the cargo hold of an aircraft and you have a 

27 

But it does specifically state that if a I catastrophic situation on your hands. And so this is 

package contains forbidden material, then maximum 2 how the FAA has elected to try to deter these types of 

weight is assigned which would --which is to say that 3 situations from happening, and we believe that we've 

it -- we don't necessarily -- and also based upon the 4 acted appropriately according to our policies in this 

statutory authority for assessing a civil penalty, 5 case. 

which is 49 U.S. Code-- forgive me. J just need to 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you a question 

pull it up. 49 U.S.C. Section 5123(a) which sets out 7 about one of the cites that you've provided, just so 

the civil penalty which in its minimum would be $250 8 that MT. Tice and I can look it up and be successful. 

should -- is assessed when a hazardous material 9 You had talked about a citation to show the enforcement 

violation is found. That sanction guidance policy 10 ofhazardous violations as 2150.3B. Do you remember 

fmiher states that we don't typically, in any case, in 11 that? 

fact, I can point to page T-1 0 of our policy actually 12 MR. SARGENT: Yes. 

states it. "In no case may the civil penalty for 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Now does that have any 

violation be less than the minimum allowed by law." 14 beginning or ending? Does it have like 49 U.S. C. or 49 

So, you know, given the policy, sort of our 15 C.F.R. attached to it in any way? 

sanction bible as we set it, you know, we -- there 16 MR. SARGENT: It does not. In fact, you--

really isn't a whole lot of discretion with regard to 17 if you were going to do an Internet search, which is 

this type of violation, you know, despite the-- 18 probably the easiest way, I can provide a link. I just 

people's opinions about what, you know, what should be 19 have to look it up and it's sort of-- it would 

prosecuted and what shouldn't. You know, I think if 20 probably be easier for me to just have you Google 

you consider, you know, the FAA's function in trying-- 21 search it or just type in "FAA Order 2150.3B" rather 

essentially trying to make sure that airplanes are kept 22 than to read out the entire link. It should come right 

(866) 448- DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

28 

29 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

l2 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

IO 

II 

12 

13 

14 

I5 

I6 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

30 

up on an Internet search, and it is publicly available. I canister that was at issue here. Again, this is-- the 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you very much. 2 canister in this case is specifically prohibited for 

Is there anything else that you would like to add to 3 passenger-carrying aircraft. 

your rebuttal in this motion for-- renewed motion? 4 The FAA does allow exceptions for cigarette 

Excuse me. 5 lighters, like a Bic cigarette lighter, tor instance, 

MR. SARGENT: Are you referring to myself, 6 that can be carried on the person, and there is a 

Your Honor, or Mr. Tice? 7 significant difference there with regard to the 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. I'm still speaking to 8 violation at issue here because those exceptions are 

you, sir. 9 allowed, again, you can have one on your person as 

MR. SARGENT: Okay. No. I think I more or 10 opposed to offering it in your checked baggage which 

Jess covered the FAA's position. You know, again, we 11 would make sense because the liquefied petroleum gas in 

understand Mr. Tice's, you know, arguments. But again, 12 checked baggage, you know, with -- in a cargo hold in a 

none of them really seem to apply to the underlying 13 bag surrounded by other bags where there can be 

violation and those that -- or the fact that a 14 friction and moving around in the cargo hold of an 

violation did occur. With regard to, you know, the 15 aircraft, you know, can be -- could be a much more 

commentary on the FAA's choice of prosecution, you 16 dangerous situation than having a small amount in a 

know, I would submit that there isn't much of a choice 17 cigarette lighter on your person, and I would imagine, 

given the application of the laws at issue and our own 18 and again, I don't have-- I couldn't offhand give you 

sanction guidance policies. You know, we believe that 19 the chemical composition of the fuel that's contained 

a civil penalty is appropriate in this type of case. 20 in every single lighter that's out there. But I would 

And we believe that we've acted in accordance with 21 imagine that the lighters to which Mr. Tice is 

those policies. And so that's, you know, in this case, 22 referring to probably contain a quantity of fuel or a 

31 

the penalty that we've proposed, you know, is 1 type of fuel that's different fi·om that which is 

appropriate. 2 regulated than the one that he offered for -- in his 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Sargent. 3 checked baggage. 

Mr. Tice, I'm going to give you right of 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 

final reply before I make a ruling. Do you have 5 Mr. Tice, anything else that you would like 

anything else that you would like to add to your 6 to add to your responsive argument? 

response? 7 MR. TICE: Well, I mean I've already said it 

MR. TICE: Well, I just have a question. I'm 8 but, you know, from the layman's terms what's in this 

a little confused because at one point I think I heard 9 type of cigarette lighter that we're referring to is 

Mr. Sargent say that in all cases liquefied petroleum IO called butane. That seems very similar to the fuel 

fuel is prohibited in any amount fi·om airplanes. And II that I oflered. And I'm totally at a loss as to how 

I'm just wondering what is in cigarette lighters if not I2 having butane in your pocket, with a means to release 

liquefied petroleum fuel? 13 it and ignite it, I mean, that's all built into the 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Sargent, would you be 14 cigarette lighter itself, is in any way more dangerous 

willing to answer that question? 15 than having it in a sealed container where you have no 

MR. SARGENT: Well, it's a somewhat difficult 16 way of releasing or igniting it in the back of the 

question for me to answer because I don't have the 17 plane. But that's just my opinion, I guess. 

materials, the safety data sheets, for every single 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

lighter that's ever been produced. There's a number of 19 MR. SARGENT: Yeah. I think, you know --

different types oflighters, and I can try to explain 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. Go ahead. Mr. 

some of the confusion that Mr. Tice appears to have 21 Sargent, go ahead. 

with regards to a cigarette lighter versus the gas 22 MR. SARGENT: I'm sorry. And I think part 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

32 

33 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

34 

of, you know, the issue being here that it's, you know, I need to reschedule the rest of what we were planning to 

we didn't -- I'm not the person who is responsible for 2 do today to another day, and I think I need to do that 

designating hazardous materials and in fact writing the 3 right now before we get cut off by the conference 

regulations. And it sounds like Mr. Tice's issue 4 operator. So can I ask you both to look at your 

appears to be more with that and how materials are 5 calendars, and we'll pick another day to reconvene tor 

designated as hazardous materials and regulated. And 6 the remaining portion of the Rule 16 conference. And 

unfortunately, I don't think that necessarily is 7 then I'll tell you what my ruling is orally. 

relevant or determinative of the issues that we're 8 Mr. Sargent, starting with you, I am looking 

facing here today. 9 at your calendar, and I'm going to tell you when I'm 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to stop 10 next available. Do you have time the week of June 9th 

whoever was going to talk. II to reconvene for a Rule 16 conference, to actually set 

Mr. Tice, did you have anything else you 12 litigation dates and discovery issues, that kind of 

would like to add? It sounded like there was a start 13 thing? 

of a comment. 14 MR. SARGENT: Looks like I would have some 

MR. TJCE: Yeah. All I was saying is it 15 availability during that week, Your Honor. 

seems to me it's relevant in the sense of that I hope 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have any 

this whole proceeding is about justice being done. And 17 blackout dates? 

so that it seems to me relevant in that regard. 18 MR. SARGENT: Other than it looks like June 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank-- 19 14th, I think I would be fairly open for that week. 

MR. TJCE: I certainly don't argue that 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Tice, looking at 

government regulations are stupid in and of themselves 21 -- or are sometimes ridiculous, but I just think that it's 22 MR. SARGENT: Your Honor, I'm sorry to 

35 

incumbent and very impmtant that the people that are I interrupt. June 12th in the afternoon as well would be 

charged with enforcing the government regulations do so 2 a blackout date for me. I'm sorry. 

with justice and rationality in mind because when they 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 

don't, it sort of leads people to question all 4 Mr. Tice, looking at your calendar, either on 

regulations and, you know, whether the government is 5 June 12th in the morning, June 13th, any time that day, 

just doing things that are stupid. And I don't want 6 Monday, June 1Oth, any time that day, do any of those 

that to be. I really believe in our justice system and 7 times work for you to reconvene? 

our government, and I think they really have a duty to 8 MR. TICE: Yeah. I think I would be 

have regulations that make sense and people believe in 9 available at any of those times. 

and are enforced fairly. And so that's why I'm raising 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, we met at II 

this issue. 11 o'clock today. So how about if we meet next-- on 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you very much. 12 Thursday, June 13, 2013 at II a.m. Eastern Time, and 

I think I can agree with you with a large portion of 13 plan on one hour just to be on the safe side, and we'll 

what you've just said. It behooves us to have laws 14 talk about setting hearing dates for whatever issues 

that are tailored to real experiences that make sense 15 we're going to actually litigate. 

that people can understand and that provide safety 16 MR. TJCE: Okay. Ifl could just-- so you 

umbrellas for all of us. 17 said one hour on Thursday starting at -- it would be II 

I'm going to thank -- 18 o'clock or II o'clock Eastern Time? 

MR. TJCE: Thank you. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. And I take it this is 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yeah. I'm going to thank 20 Mr. Tice speaking right now? 

you both very much tor your arguments that you've made 21 MR. TICE: Yes. I'm sorry. This is Mr. 

today, and I note that we're almost out oftime. I 22 Tice. Thursdays at noon my time, I attend a Rotary Club 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

36 

37 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

]] 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

38 

meeting here in town. So if it's just one hour, that I actually look at the hazardous materials regulations, 

would be perfect. 2 they're extraordinarily complex, and they cover a 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, would you rather that 3 tremendous amount of information and a wide variety of 

we set it for 10 a.m.? 4 hazardous materials, and it could take years to become 

MR. TICE: Well, 11 a.m. your time is I 0 a.m. 5 an expert on what that all means. So as a result, it's 

my time so that works. I'm in Central Time. 6 not a surprise that we have people like Mr. Tice and 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That's fine then, 11 7 others who very innocently will pack certain things 

a.m. Eastern Time. 8 either on their person or in their luggage and find, to 

Okay. In the remaining time we have left, 9 their surprise, that these items that might have been 

this is what I'm going to do. I will grant over 10 allowed 25 or 30 years ago no longer are allowed. So I 

objection a Motion to Deem Allegations Admitted in ]] would agree that there is a continuing evolution of 

their entirety, and Twill do that because there is no 12 education of our citizenry about these newer 

dispute essentially that the allegations as listed 13 regulations that now govern our activities and behavior 

occurred. There was, as we have talked about, a fuel 14 as we try and fly the friendly skies. 

canister containing hazardous material offered in Mr. 15 So with that, I will issue an order, written 

Tice's checked luggage for transportation by the FAA. 16 order, that basically grants the motion regarding the 

As we have also talked about, that was discovered 17 violations themselves, but reserves the parties' right 

before the baggage reached the airplane. It was turned 18 to engage in litigation regarding their dispute on the 

--taken out of the baggage and not transported by the 19 proposed penalty. And I will tJ)' and issue that order 

FAA all to the good in the sense that the matter was 20 as soon as possible. But as you can tell from my 

caught early on, as Mr. Tice has noted. 21 voice, I'm a little bit under the weather, and I'm not 

I will note that there is no de minimis 22 quite sure when I'll get back to ramming speed, ifi 

39 

exception for this particular type of hazardous I may use that term fi·om the "Ben-Hur" movie. But I'll 

material and that Mr. Tice's de minimis arguments, as I 2 get it out as soon as possible. 

would title them, cannot stand under a strict 3 And then in the meantime, I'll look forward 

application of the hazardous regulations. 4 to talking to you both early next month, June 13, 2013, 

I would note that Mr. Tice still has the 5 at 11 a.m. Eastern Time, and at that point, we can talk 

opportunity to argue all of the mitigating 6 about any discovery issues that need to be addressed, 

circumstances that we lightly touched upon today for 7 how much hearing time will need to be reserved, who the 

addressing the issue of the civil penalty which, as 8 parties are thinking of calling as witnesses to address 

proposed at this time, is $600 total for the 10 9 the civil penalty issue and also where that should be 

violations that have been alleged and proved. I would 10 held. I know there's some dispute about location and 

also note, and this was not discussed by the parties, II the form of the hearing itself. We can address that 

that part of the hazardous materials regulations 12 next month. 

address the differences between lighter fuel in a Bic 13 And as always, the two of you are welcome to 

container, for example, and fuel in other types of 14 continue talking. As I tell everybody in the cases of 

containers. And one of the things that the hazardous 15 litigants who appear before me, it's always preferable 

material regulations talk about is air pressure quality 16 if you can engage in ongoing settlement negotiations up 

and the difference that occurs when you have different 17 to and including the day of trial. So ifyou are so 

types of fuels subjected to different air pressures. 18 inclined, feel free to talk to each other again about 

And it should be undisputed by everyone here that the 19 those kinds of settlement discussions at any time 

air pressure in a cargo hold is very different than the 20 between now and June 13, 2013. 

air pressure in a passenger section of an airplane. 21 With that, on behalfofthe FAA, Mr. Sargent, 

Now, I think we can also agree that if you 22 is there anything else that you would like to add or 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

40 

41 
I 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

II 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

42 

correct to the record today? I CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 

MR. SARGENT: Not at this time, Your Honor. 2 I, Janel Folsom, the officer before whom the 

HJDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Tice, on behalf of 3 foregoing hearing was taken, do hereby certify that 

yourself, is there anything else you would like to add 4 the testimony appearing in the foregoing pages was 

or correct to the record or any question you would like 5 recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting 

to ask? 6 under my direction; that said transcription is a true 

Well, there is one thing, and I 

7 record of the testimony given by said parties; that I 

MR. TICE: 8 am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by 

may have misspoke slightly. What actually happened 9 any of the parties to the action in which this hearing 

when the ticket agent called me up to the stand and 10 was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or 

asked me or showed me the canister of fuel, I didn't II employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the 

ask -- what I said was I meant to dispose of it. I 12 parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 

meant to throw it away. It was in my, you know, it was 13 interested in the outcome of this action. 

a used container, a piece of trash. It was nothing 14 

that I wanted. I did not ask him to dispose of it. I 15 

said that I had intended to. I didn't intend to have 16 

it in my bag. 

And ifi would have known that I was going to 

17 Janel Folsom 

be prosecuted for this thing, I certainly would not Digital Comi Rep01ier 

18 

have asked him to dispose of it because it seems to me 19 an important piece of evidence. 20 

HJDGE SULLIVAN: So noted. And I would 21 

encourage you to remember to add that to your list of 22 

43 

mitigating circumstances if you would like. I CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 

MR. TICE: Okay. Thank you. 2 

HJDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you all very 3 I, Karen Ehatt, hereby certify that I am 

much for your presence today and for your 4 not the Court Rep01ier who rep01ied the proceeding 

participation. It appears our business today is 5 and that I have typed the transcript of the 

complete. With that, we can go off the record and I 6 proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and 

wish you all a good day. Thank you. 7 recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript 

COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 8 is a true, correct and complete transcription of the 

MR. TICE: Thank you. 

9 proceedings. 

MR. SARGENT: Thank you. 

10 

(Whereupon, at 12:03 p.m., the hearing in II 

12 re: Scott Tice was adjourned.) 13 

Date Karen Ehatt 

14 Transcriptionist 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

(866) 448- DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

44 

45 
Capital Reporting Company 

CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER 

I, Janel B. Folsom, the officer before whom the 

foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that 

the proceedings were taken by me in stenotype and 

thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction; that 

said proceedings are a true record; that I am neither 

counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the 

parties to the action in these proceedings were taken; 

and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any 

counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor 

financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this 

action. 

Janel B. Folsom 

Court Reporter 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2012 
I Capital Reporting Company 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 

I, KAREN EHATT, hereby certify that I am not the 

Court Reporter who reported the following proceeding 

and that I have typed the transcript of this proceeding 

using the Court Reporter's notes and recordings. The 

foregoing/attached transcript is a true, correct and 

complete transcription of said proceeding. 

Date KAREN EHATT 

Transcriptionist 

866.488.DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 

I 

I 
$ 

$250 27:8 

$600 39:9 

0 

0042 3:4 

01803 2:7 

1 

1 3:21 

10 38:4,5 39:9 

lOth 37:6 

11 37:10,12,17,18 

38:5,7 41:5 

11:031:18 

12 2:6 

12:03 43:11 

1200 1:15 

12th 37:1,5 

13 37:12 41:4,20 

13th 37:5 

14th 36:19 

15 3:4 4:9 

16 1:10 3:5 36:6,11 

172 14:2 

172.204 13:17 

172.204(a 13:20 

172.600(c)(l 11:16 

173.29 23:8 

1st 8:1 

2 

2013 1:10 3:4,21 

4:3,5,10 37:12 

41:4,20 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Pagel 

204 14:3 accepted 8:3 

2150.3B 26:10 Accepting 3:21 

29:10,21 access 12:16 14:6 

25 40:10 accordance 7:22 

26(f 4:3 9:1 30:21 

according 12:2 

3 26:20 29:4 

30 40:10 acknowledged 6:2 

4 acted 29:4 30:21 

413:11,12 acting 3:9 15:4 

49 11:15 action 44:9,13 

13:17,19,22 23:7 actions 25: 1 8 

27:6,7 29:14 activities 40:13 

5 actual6:17 23:18 

5123(a 27:7 25:11,19 

actually 5:8 6:4 

10:1811:19 6 

12:19 13:2,10 6 13:12 17:20 19:1 25:6 

27:12 28:7 36:1 I 

7 37:15 40:1 42:8 

7-page 13:11 add 21 :5 30:3 31:6 

33:6 34:13 41:22 

9 42:4,22 

9 4:3,4 13:16 addition 4:4 

9th 7:22 36:10 8:12,19 

address 16:16 

A 18:10 39:13 

a.m 1:18 37:12 41 :8,1 1 

38:4,5,8 41:5 addressed 8:5 

abilities 5: 1 9 18:1141:6 

aboard 21 :21 23:6 addressing 39:8 

24:21 adjourned 43:12 

above-captioned Administration 1:13 1:2 3:7 

Accept 4:1 admitted 4:6 6:3 

acceptable 5: 12 7:15 8:13 9:15 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

10:1 38:11 

afternoon 37:1 

against 6:4,6 

11:1413:11 

agency 2:2 

24:10,12 

agent 7:7 19:3 

20:1 24:9 25:9 

42:9 

aggravating 26:8 

ago 9:2 40:10 

agreed 8:10 

ah 19:4 

ahead 7:16,18 

33:20,21 

air 39:16,18,20,21 

aircraft 21:22 23:6 

24:21 28:20,22 

32:3,15 

airlines 25:7 

airplane 19:9 

25:1638:18 

39:21 

airplanes 27:22 

31:11 

airport 14:12 

18:20,22 20:21 

25:6 

airports 21 :3 

allegation 25:22 

allegations 4:6 

7:14 8:9 9:15 

10:1 38:11,13 

alleged 6:4 8:7,12 

9:5 39:10 

alleges 28:18 

alleging 10:18 
allow 19:17 32:4 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page2 

30:20 3I :2 

allowed 27:14 32:9 appropriately B 

backpacking 1I : 1 40:10 

already 25:11 33:7 

am 16:18 20:I 

36:8 44:8,10 

45:3 

amount 6:21 9:8 

I0:21 I6:3,IO 

2I:1531:1I 

32:16 40:3 

and/or 8:16 9:8,18 

Andy 2:14 3:13 

answer 4:1 

8:3,I4,I8 

31:15,17 

anymore 14:11 

anyone I0:19II:5 

17:218:1 

anything 1 0: I8 

2I :5 30:3 3I :6 

33:5 34:I2 41:22 

42:4 

anywhere 1 0:20 

apparently 25:3 

appear 21:3 41:15 

appearing 44:4 

appears 8:21 9:3 

22:2 25:I 0,14 

3I :2I 34:5 43:5 

application 30: I8 

39:4 

applied 15:13 

applies 22:17,18 

apply 30:13 

appreciate 21:8 

appropriate 10:15 

29:4 

appropriateness bad 28:14 

8:16 9:8 bag 19:2 32:13 

approximately 42:16 

1:18 baggage I8: I8 

aren't 20:11 24:1 ,I3,I8 

argue 5:8,12,I6 

32:10,I2 33:3 

38:I8,19 

34:20 39:6 bags 13:14 18:2I 

arguing 6:I4 2I :3 32:13 

argument 9:3 21:6 Barronett 12:4 

25:16 33:6 

B-A-R-R-0-N-Earguments 30: I2 T-T 12:4 

35:2I 39:2 

based 8:2,13,17 

assertion 18: I7 9:2,I2 14:I4 

21:13 24:5 27:4 

assertions 19: 16 basically 40: I6 

assess 26:6 became 8:5 

assessed 27:9 become 40:4 

assessing 27:5 beginning 1: 17 

assigned 13: I5 29:14 

26:19 27:3 behalf 2:2,9 41:21 

attached 29:15 42:3 

attempt 7:20 behavior 40: I3 

attend 37:22 behooves 35:14 

attention I4:5 believe 9:17 20:4 

23:7 24:4 29:3 

attorney 3 :6 44: II 30:I9,2I 35:7,9 

authority 27:5 Ben-Hur 41: I 

availability 36:15 Bennett 2:3 3:8 

available 26:11 best 4:13 5:I8 

I4:18 21:7 28:I6 30:I 36:10 37:9 

Avenue l:I6 bible 27:I6 

Aviation 1:2 3:7 Bic 32:5 39: I3 

away I2:I2 42:I2 bit 3:16 5:22 15:5 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

40:21 

blackout 36:I7 

37:2 

book 13:22 I4:I 

briefly 7:21 

bring 14:4 

brought I6:1I 

built33:I3 

Burlington 2:7 

business 26:21 

43:5 

butane I6:6 

33:10,12 

c 

c)(l13:I8 

C.F.R 1I :15 

13:17,19 14:1 

23:7 29:I5 

calendar 36:9 37:4 

calendars 36:5 

canister 10:22 

11:217:17I9:4 

2I:15 23:4,I2,22 

25:I5 28:21 

32:1,2 38:I5 

42:10 

canisters I4 :21 

Capital I : I7 

care 3:17 18:19 

carefully 6: 13 

cargo 28:19,22 

32:12,I4 39:20 

carried 32:6 

case I 0: 16 1 7: 14 

I8:924:15 

25:3,11 27:11,I3 
29:5 30:20,22 

32:2 

cases 18:4 

20:15,17 26:5 

31:1041:14 

catastrophic 29:1 

caught 38:21 

Cause 3:22 

Central 38:6 

certain 

22:13,15,17,18 

40:7 

certainly 

9:10,18,1916:15 

34:20 42:18 

CERTIFICATE 

44:1 45:1 

certify 44:3 45:3 

chance 11:13,16 

chapter 13 :22 

14:2,3 

charged 6:6 35:2 

chart26:19 

checked 18:18 

32:10,12 33:3 

38:16 

chemical 32:19 

choice 30:16,17 

cigarette 16:7 

31:12,22 

32:4,5,17 

33:9,14 

circumstances 

22:11 39:7 43:1 

citation 12:20 

13:16,22 29:9 

citations 13 :2 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page3 

cited 8:10,13 9:6 confiscate 24:17 

13:1 confiscated 10:14 

cites 29:7 17:9 20:21 

citizenry 40:12 24:1,7 

city 12:7,10 confiscating 24: 13 

civil 4: 7 7: 1 5 8: 1 5 confused 20:11 

9:8,17 10:3 26:7 31:9 

27:5,8,13 30:20 confusion 22:2 

39:841:9 24:9 25:4 31:21 

claims 7:1 conserve 15 :2 

clarify 19:22 consider 

class 13:14 26:6,14,16,22 

27:21 28:3,7 

clear 8:5 10:17 

15:8 22:1 constitute 1:12 

6:22 

client 25:19,22 construction 

Club 37:22 15:17,18 

Code 14:1 27:6 contact 24:19 

comfortable 5:9 contain 32:22 

comment 34:14 contained 8:18 

commentary 10:22 26:10 

30:16 32:19 

comments 20:3 container 

committed 9:21 14:9,11,15 25:11 

33:15 39:14 

Company 1: 17 42:13 

complaint 8:8 containers 39:15 

11:1313:2,5,11 containing 23:16 

complete 43:6 38:15 

45:8 contains 26:17 

completely 17:21 27:2 

23:10,11 continue 41:14 

complex 40:2 continuing 40:11 

composition 32:19 convened 3:5 

concern 20:15 convening 4:9 

concerns 18:13 conversations 

conference 3:6 4:8 8:19,21 

36:3,6,11 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

cooking 11 :1 

copy 13:4 

correct 11 :22 12:1 

14:13 23:3 

42:1,5 45:8 

counsel 2:5 10:5 

44:8,11 

counter 19:3 

couple 3:19 4:12 

11:1121:11 

Court7:1319:16 

43:8 44:17 

45:4,6 

cover 40:2 

covered 30:11 

create 28:18 

cut 36:3 

D 

D.C 1:10,16 

dangerous 28:19 

32:1633:14 

data 31:18 

date 37:2 45:13 

dates 36:12,17 

37:14 

day 36:2,5 37:5,6 

41:17 43:7 

de21:14,16,19 

22:9,12 38:22 

39:2 

dealing 26:11 

deals 23:8 

decide 19:20 20:6 

decides 20:5 

decision 20:2 26:4 
decisions 22:3 

declared 22:16 

deem 7:14 38:11 

deemed 11:8 

deeming 4:5 9:15 

10:1 

defenses 6:10 7:2 

deny 6:9 

Department 1 : 15 

designated 34:6 

designating 34:3 

despite 27:18 

deter 28:16 29:2 

determinative 

34:8 

determine 11 :3 

determined 28:16 

determining 26:15 

deterrence 28:5 

deterrent 28: 1 0 

difference 15: 17 

16:5 32:7 39:17 

differences 39:13 

different 4: 12 

20:13 31:20 33:1 

39:17,18,20 

difficult 31:16 

Digital 44: 1 7 

diminished 15: 1 

direction 26:3 

44:6 

discovered 38:17 

discovery 4:4 9: 18 

36:12 41:6 

discretion 27:17 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page4 

discuss 9:7,10 33:5 34:12 41:22 

discussed 3 9: 11 42:4 

discussions 41 : 19 Emily 2:13 3:11 

dispose 17:1319:5 employed 44:8,11 

24:7 25:2 employee 44:11 

42:11,14,19 empty 14:19 

disposed 23:4,8,14 28:21 

25:3,11,15 encourage 18:16 

dispute 6:5 42:22 

8:7,8,11,15 endanger 17:2 

9:4,12 38:13 

40:1841:10 endangered 1 0: 19 

11 :5 

distance 12: 12 

enforced 35:10 

distinction 22:1 

enforcement 26:12 

Docket 1:4 3:3 28:11 29:9 

done 20:19 21:7 enforcing 35:2 

34:17 

engage 40:18 

drive 12:9 41:16 

Duluth 12:12,15 England 2:4,6 

during 36:15 entered 25: 16 

duty 35:8 entire 14:20 29:22 

E entirety 38:12 

early 38:21 41:4 ER4:3 

easier 12:18 29:20 erred 22:8 

easiest 29:18 essence 3:20 6:5 

25:17 

Eastern 37:12,18 

38:8 41:5 essentially 6:1 

7:20 8:6,10,19 education 40:12 14:3 23:9,15,18 

effect28:10 27:22 38:13 

egregious 20:17 establish 15:9 

Ehatt 45:3,13 event 17:15 

either 12:14 20:7 everybody 3:14 

37:4 40:8 7:1041:14 

elected 25:3 29:2 everyone 5: 14 

else 21 :5 30:3 31 :6 39:19 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

evidence 9:13 

42:20 

evident 8:5,22 

evidentiary 9:19 

evolution 40:1 1 

exactly 10:10,19 

11:316:12 

examination 8:2,4 

24:2 

example 39:14 

Excellent 18:15 

exception 

21:14,16,19 

22:10,12 23:10 

39:1 

exceptions 32:4,8 

Excuse 30:5 

Executive 2:6 

exist 21:16 

exists 3 :22 24:2 

experiences 35:15 

expert 40:5 

expertise 16: 16 

explain 22:9 31:20 

explaining 22:8 

extraordinarily 

40:2 

F 

FAA 3:8 4:5 6:1 

7:1 8:1 9:14,22 

16:918:11,14 

20:21 24:12 

25:5,8,9,19 

26:10 28:10 

29:2,21 32:4 

38:16,2041:21 
FAA-2013 3:3 

FAA-2013-0042 

1:5 

FAA's 4:8,11 5:3 

8:7,9 10:18 22:3 

27:2130:11,16 

facing 34:9 

fact 8:7,8 9:4,6,14 

15:1021:19 

22:21 24:10,18 

25:9 27:12 29:16 

30:14 34:3 

factor 28:4 

factors 26:8,14,22 

facts 8:9,11 9:11 

fair 7:2 16:20 

fairly 35:10 36:19 

Federal 1 :2 3:6 

14:2 

feds 18:14 

feel5:8 10:17 11:5 

14:5 28:14 41:18 

file 24:6 

filed 4:2,3,5,1 0 

7:22 8:1 

final 31:5 

financially 44:12 

finding 3:22 17:I3 

fine 6:6 II :8 38:7 

first 4:14 5:2,IO 

7:8IO:I1I1:12 

14:21 

five 7:11 10:7 

flame 14:22 

fly 40:14 

follow-up 23:21 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

PageS 

Folsom 1:17 

44:2,17 G 

forbidden 21:21 gas 22:22 31 :22 

23:5,19 26:18 32:11 

27:2 general 7:9 

foregoing 44:3,4 gets 14:22 18:9 

foregoing/ 25:10 28:2 

attached 45:7 given 27:15 30:18 

forget 10:13 44:7 

forgive 27:6 gives 13:16 

forgot 17:8,21 goods 28:19 

19:5 Google 12:19,21 

form 41:11 13:18 29:20 

forth 4:1714:4 govern 40: 13 

forward 41 :3 government 34:21 

35:2,5,8 

free 41:18 

grant 38:10 

friction 32:14 Granting/Denying 

friendly 40:14 4:1 

friends 20:19 grants 40:16 

front 13:5,6 great 4:19 

fuel6:2110:22 

13:13 

greater 23: 17 

14:9,10,11,15,16 guarantee 13:20 

15:3,12,19 guess 24:22 33:17 

16:6,7 17:17 

19:821:15 guidance 26:2,9 

27:IO 30:19 

3I:I1,13 

32: I9,22 33:1,10 guides 26:4 

38:I4 39:13,14 guilty I6:I8,I9 

42:10 

fuels 39:18 H 

full15:6 hands 29:1 

fumes 28:2I happen 10:12 11:4 

function 27:21 happened 17:14 

19:6 20:7 25:IO 

furthered 17:1 42:8 

future 11 :4 happy 5:I3 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

harm 6:17 25:19 

harmed 28:7 

harmful 16:4, 1 0 

having 32:16 

33:12,15 

hazard 6:22 13:14 

hazardous 21:17 

23:17 25:8 26:12 

27:9 28:12 29:10 

34:3,6 38:15 

39:1,4,12,15 

40:1,4 

hear 3:15 19:12 

heard 20: 18,20,21 

23:131:9 

hearing 3:10 4:6 

9:16,20,21 10:2 

37:14 41:7,11 

43:11 44:3,9 

Hearings 1 : 14 

3:10 

held 1:13,1441:10 

he'll 9:10 

helpful14:10 

hereby 44:3 45:3 

hereinafter 3:7 

hereto 44:I2 

he's 3:9 

highlight 6:1I 

7:I3 

highlights 10:9 

hold 28:22 

32:12,14 39:20 

home I2:I6 13:7,9 

Honor 4:19 5:I4 

7:4, I7,20 8:1 

21:I8 22:6 23:1 
24:4 30:7 

36:15,22 42:2 

HONORABLE 

1:14 

hope 3:1711:4 

34:16 

hopefully 22:1 

hoping 16:22 17:3 

hot 14:21 

hour 37:13,17 

38:1 

hours 12:9 

huge I6:5 

hunting 17:19 

Hurvitz 2:13 3:12 

I 

l'd5:1321:12 

idea 14:16 17:15 

24:2 28:5 

identification 

13:15 

identified 11 :15 

identify 3:19 10:9 

17:6 

ignite 33:13 

igniting 33:16 

1'113:7 7:20 36:7 

40:2241:1,3 

I'm 3:15,19 4:7 5:5 

6:11,12 7:5,20 

10:1711:7,20 

12:3,22 13:8 

15:14,15 

16:18,21 17:3,11 

18:519:17,18 

20:11,22 30:8 

31:4,8,12 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page6 

33:11,22 34:2,10 interpretive 15:18 

35:10,18,20 interrupt 37:1 

36:9,22 37:2,21 

involved 24:11 38:6,10 40:21 

imagine 16:18 isn't 17:127:17 

32:17,21 30:17 

important 25:21 isobutane 16:6 

35:1 42:20 issue 4:6,15 6:5 

inclined 41:18 9:12,15,17 

10:I,2 18:9,10 including 4I : 17 22:21 23:3 30:18 

inconsistency 21 :2 32:1,8 34:1,4 

incumbent 35:1 35:11 39:8 

indicated 19: II 

40:15,19 41:9 

issued 4:2 8:1 

individual 26:21 11:1413:II 

individuals 21 :2 issues 9:19 24:8 

information 8:18 34:8 36:12 37:I4 

14:6,7 17:6 41:6 

24:6,16 25:21 items 10:13,14 

40:3 40:9 

initially 20:4 it's 7:9,10 11:6 

innocently 40:7 13:14 18:22 20:8 

insignificant 11 :8 23:9,14 26:21 

28:1,16 29:19 

inspecting 24:13 31:16 34:1,16,22 

inspection 18:20 38:1 40:5 41:15 

instance 32:5 IV 2:3 3:8 

Instead 6: 1 0 I've 5:5 6:12 16:5 

intend 42:15 17:7,8,18 18:1 

19:420:1821:7 

intended 42:15 22:7 33:7 

intentional 6:18 

interested 44:13 J 

intern 3:12,13 J.E 1:14 

Internet 12:16 

Janel1:16 44:2,17 

29:17 30:1 Jersey 1:16 

interpretation join 20:14 

16:13,14 joint 4:3 

interpreted 16:17 JUDGE 3:2 4:20 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

5:2,15,20 7:5,18 

1 0:4 11:1 0,20 

12:2,6,11,14,18 

13:8 14:14 

15:11,16 17:4 

18:3,6,15 

19:8,11,22 20:14 

21:10 22:5,7 

23:21 25:13 

29:6,13 30:2,8 

31:3,14 

33:4,18,20 

34:10,19 

35:12,20 

36:16,20 

37:3,10,19 

38:3,7 42:3,21 

43:3 

June 36:10,18 

37:1,5,6,12 

41:4,20 

justice 16:20,22 

34:17 35:3,7 

K 

Karen 45:3,13 

kinds 7:6 18:4 

41:19 

knife 17:8 

known 18:1 42:17 

L 

labeled 13:21 

22:16 

lack 10:21 

large 12:10 35:13 

largest 12:10 

last14:15 

Lastly 4:9 

Late 4:1 
law 3:12,13 12:15 

13:2,3,21 16:17 

27:14 

laws 30:18 35:14 

layman's 16:15 

33:8 

leads 35:4 

least 21:13 

leaves 8:14 

led 25:4 

legal10:21 13:16 

16:15 

less 7:1210:8 15:6 

27:14 30:11 

let's 5:2 

letter 4:10 5:4 

16:17 

Ievel16:15 

levied 11:9 

library 11 : 16 

12:15 

lighter 31: 19,22 

32:5,17,20 

33:9,14 39:13 

lighters 16:7,8 

31:12,20 32:5,21 

lightly 39:7 

limit 4:6 9:16,20 

limiting 10:2 

line 12:21 

link 29:18,22 

liquefied 22:22 

31:10,13 32:11 

list 12:3 42:22 

listed 38:13 

listened 21:8 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page 7 

litigants 41 :15 23:18 24:11 28:8 

litigate 3 7:15 38:20 

litigation 3:5 matters 10:21 

4:16,17 36:12 maximum 26:18 

40:18 27:2 

little 3:16 5:21 may 1:10 3:4,21 

15:5 31:9 40:21 4:2,4,9 7:22 

live 11 :22 17:20 10:5,6 18:8 

21:22 22:1 24:9 

located 12:7 27:13 41:1 42:8 

location 41 : 10 maybe 25:4 

longer 40:10 mean 16:4,12 19:1 

loss 33:11 20:922:1128:13 

lot27:17 33:7,13 

luggage 38:16 40:8 means 33:12 40:5 

meant42:11,12 

M meantime 41 :3 

M-201:15 meet 37:11 

ma'am 11:18 meeting 38:1 

manner23:16 mention 13 :9 

Massachusetts 2:7 met 37:10 

material 6:2,3 mind 3:16 20:10 

13:3 16:4 35:3 

21:17,20 22:20 

minimal 6:22 23:5,12,14,17,19 

24:14 26:18 minimis 

27:2,9 28:1 21:14,16,19 

38:15 39:2,16 22:10,12 38:22 

materials 5:6 6:12 39:2 

11 :21 16:10 minimum 27:8,14 

19:15 Minneapolis 22:14,18,19 25:8 12:10,14 26:12 28:12 

31:18 34:3,5,6 minute 5:21 22:14 

39:12 40:1,4 minutes 7:12 9:2 

matter 1 : 13 3 :3 10:7 

4:16 7:15 misspoke 42:8 

8:15,20 9:11,16 mistake 10:11 

10:2,15 11 :8 11:617:218:1 

15:7,14,20 22:4 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

20:12 

mistakenly 1 0:12 

17:8 

mistakes 28: 17 

mitigating 26:7 

28:3 39:6 43:1 

Monday 37:6 

money 28:14 

month 41:4,12 

morning 3:18 4:9 

37:5 

motion 4:5,8,11,14 

5:3,4,8,12,17,22 

7:3,14,21 8:2 

25:17 30:4 38:11 

40:16 

moved 9:14 

movie41:1 

moving 32:14 

myself8:1917:7 

22:9 30:6 

N 

nearby 12:8 

nearest 12:6 

nearly 14:19 

necessarily 23 :2 

27:4 28:14 34:7 

negotiations 41 : 16 

neither 44:8 

newer 40:12 

none 30:13 

noon 37:22 

nor 44:8,12 

NOTARY 44:1 

note 35:22 38:22 
39:5,11 

noted 16:5 38:21 

42:21 

notes 45:6 

nothing 42:13 

notifying 25:7 

0 

objection 17:11 

38:11 

obviously 9:17 

24:21 25:5,6 

26:2 28:4 

occur 9:5 28:6 

30:15 

occurred 3 8: 14 

occurs 39:17 

o'clock 37:11,18 

offense 16:18,19 

offenses 6:19 17:5 

20:9 

offer 23:12 

offered 18: 1 8 

22:14,21 

23:5,15,20,22 

28:1 33:2,11 

38:15 

offering 32:10 

offhand 32:18 

office 1:14 2:5 

3:10,12 12:5 

officer 44:2 

officials 18:11,14 

oh 12:1717:7,19 

Okay 5:2,15,20 

7:5,1911:10,20 

12:2,6,11,14,18 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

PageS 

13:8 14:14 17:4 p.m 43:11 

18:1519:8,11 pack 40:7 

30:2,10 33:18 

package 26: 1 7 34:19 35:12 

36:16,20 27:2 

37:3,10,16 packaged 22:16 

38:7,9 43:2,3 packages 23:8 

one-fifth 15:21 packed 13:13 

ongoing 41:16 

page 13:11,12 

online 12:19 27:12 

open 36:19 pages 1:12 44:4 

operator 36:4 paragraph 8:4 

opinion 15 :20 13:12,16 

19:21 25:21 Park 2:6 

33:17 participation 43:5 

opinions 27:19 particular 26:1 1 

opportunity 9:10 39:1 

13:3 39:6 parties 3:5 4:3 

opposed 32:10 25:14 39:11 

option 25:1 40:17 41:8 

44:7,9,12 orally 36:7 

party 7:8 

order 3:21 4:2,5 

8:1 9:15 10:1 passenger 

26:10 28:5 29:21 24:19,20,22 

40:15,16,19 39:21 

organization passenger28:1 1 carrying 21 :21 

23:6 32:3 

Orr 2:14 3:13 

passengers 16:3 

others 40:7 24:13 

otherwise 44: 1 2 penalizing 1 7: 1 

ounce 1 5:21 ,22 penalties 26:20 

ounces 15:21 penalty 4:7 7:15 

outcome 44: 13 8:15 9:8,1710:3 

outline 7:21 9:2 26:7,18 

outlined 1 0: 1 1 

27:5,8,13 30:20 

31:1 39:8 40:19 

41:9 

p people 10:12 17:18 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

20:18,20 28:14 

35:1,4,9,16 40:6 

people's 27:19 

28:15 

percent 15:6 

perfect 38:2 

permitted 16:8 

person 21:4 25:6 

32:6,9,17 34:2 

40:8 

personnel 18: 19 

petroleum 22:22 

31:10,13 32:11 

pick 25:2 36:5 

piece 42:13,20 

plan 4:4,21 37:13 

plane 28:2,20 

33:17 

planes 16:2,8,11 

planning 36:1 

play 16:21 

plays 16:4 

please7:16 17:13 

pocket 

17:8,9,12,21 

33:12 

point 8:22 9:3,13 

11:414:1915:1 

21:6 24:22 27:12 

31:941:5 

points 7:13 10:6 

16:2 

policies 28:4 29:4 

30:19,22 

policy 26:3,9,16 

27:10,12,15 28:9 

pop 13:21 
portion 13 :2 28:9 

35:13 36:6 

position 9:9,11 

10:930:11 

possible 7:21 

40:20 41:2 

post 12:5 

potentially 23:12 

precisely 16: 17 

preferable 41:15 

prepared 5: I6 

presence 43:4 

present 2:12 

3:9,I 0 18:I9 

22:2 

pressure 

39:I6,20,21 

pressures 39:18 

pretty 7:6 

primary 21:5 

prior 4:9 

pro 2:10 3:9,21 

4:10 

probably 3: I5 

12:21 22:7 

29:18,20 32:22 

proceeding 34:17 

45:4,6 

proceedings 1 : I2 

7:7 45:9 

produced 31:19 

prohibited 10:13 

I7:1022:22 

31:11 32:2 

proper 13:12 

properly 18:11 

22:16 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page9 

proposed 4:3 31 : 1 23:1,17,19,20 

39:9 40:19 32:22 

prosecute 20:5,8 question 5:6 11:12 

prosecuted 6:20 14:8 15:11 17:5 

17:5,1618:2 23:22 25:14 29:6 

31:8,15,17 35:4 20:11,16,18,22 

21:4 27:20 42:18 42:5 

prosecuting 7:7 questions 11: II 

20:2 2I :11 

prosecution 6: I6 quite I8:4 20:8,22 

I1 :7 18:8 40:22 

I9:12,I720:1 

2I:2 25:20 30:16 R 

prosecutorial 22:3 raise 10:6 

prove 23:I1 raised 6:IO 18:I3 

25:I6 

proved 39: I 0 

provide 29:18 

raising 35:10 

35:16 ramming 40:22 

provided 22:15 ranges 26: I9 

29:7 rather 29:2I 38:3 

provides 23:I 0 rationality 35:3 

PUBLIC 44:1 re 1:4 43:I2 

publicly 26:IO reached 38:I8 

30:I real35:I5 

pull27:7 realize I7: I 0 

purged 23: II realizes 16:9 

purposefully really 6:22 8:21 

28:15 9:3 15:2 17:2 

purposes 11: 1 20:627:I730:13 

pursue 25:20,22 35:7,8 

pursued 19:I4 reasonable 9:4 

reasonably 16:11 

Q rebuttal 30:4 

quality 39:16 recall 3:21 11 :20 

quantities recollection 14: 15 

22:15,19 

reconvene 36:5,11 quantity 37:7 

(866) 448- DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

record 3:2 9:13 

42:1,5 43:6 44:7 

recorded 44:5 

recordings 45:7 

reduced 44:5 

refer 3:7 4:7 

referring 30:6 

32:22 33:9 

regard 22:3 23:I3 

24:9 26:5 27:17 

30:15 32:7 34:I8 

regarding 

40:I6,18 

regards 26:4 3I :22 

Region 2:4 

Regional2:5 18:20 

regularly I 0: 12 

regulated 22:14 

33:2 34:6 

regulation 

I5:13,I7,20 

23:14 

regulations 8: 1 0 

9:5 II :I3,14,I7 

12:20 13:I 14:2 

16:2 26:12 28:12 

34:4,21 35:2,5,9 

39:4,12,16 

40:I,13 

regulatory 8: 12 

related 44:8 

relative 44:10 

release 33:I2 

releasing 33:16 

relevant 23 :2 

34:8,16,18 

Relief 4:2 
remain 8: 11 9: 12 

remainder 8:17 

remaining 8:15 

9:19 36:6 38:9 

remains 3: 16 

remember 29: 1 0 

42:22 

remove 24: 18 

renewed 4:5,8,11 

5:3 8:2 25:17 

30:4 

reply 31:5 

reported 45:4 

Reporter 43:8 

44:17 45:4 

Reporter's 45:6 

Reporting 1: 1 7 

request 9:22 

required 23:16 

reschedule 36:1 

reserved 41 :7 

reserves 40: 17 

reserving 7:15 

resources 9:21 

respectfully 9:22 

respond 10:5 

21:12 

Respondent 1 :6 

2:9 3:9 4:10 

8:3,5,6,20 

Respondent's 3:22 

5:3 8:14,18,22 

9:1,9 

responding 7:8 

response 3:22 

4:11,14 5:4 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page 10 

6:8,13 10:1 0 24:4 26:1 

25:17 26:1 31:7 29:12,16 30:6,10 

responsible 24: 12 31:3,10,14,16 

33:19,21,22 25:7 34:2 

36:8,14,18,22 responsive 10:9 41:2142:243:10 

33:6 

scenario 21 : 14 

rest 36:1 

result 6:17 9:22 scheduling 3:6 4:4 

25:18 40:5 scope 9:18,20 

return 10:5 Scott 1:5 2:10 

review 8:13 3:3,9 43:12 

se 2:10 3:10,22 ridiculous 34:22 4:10 

risk 28:2 sealed 33:15 

role28:11 search 12:19,21 

room 3:11 13:18 29:17,21 

Rotary 3 7:22 30:1 

rule 3:5 7:9 second 7:8 

36:6,11 section 13:17,20 

ruling 17:3 31 :5 14:2 26:11,13 

27:7 39:21 36:7 

running 15:5 seek 25:20 

seem 1 0: 15 16:22 

s 20:10 30:13 

S.E 1:16 seemed 1 7: 16 

safe 16:3 28:1 seems 9:9 15:7 

37:13 16:1,3,8,1921:8 

safely 16:11 33:10 34:16,18 

42:19 

safety 28:2 31:18 

35:16 seen 17:7 

sanction 26:15 seized 14:12 

27:10,16 28:4 sense 16:14 32:11 

30:19 34:16 35:9,15 

sanctioned 26:2 38:20 

Sargent 2:3 3:8 serve 9:20 

4:18,19 5:11 '13 served 17:1 

7:11,17,19 20:4 service 12:3 

21:11,18 22:6,12 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

sets 26:13,19 27:7 

setting 4:16 37:14 

settlement 

41:16,19 

shape 9:18 

sharp 3:17 

sheets 31:18 

shells 17:20 

shipping 13: 13 

shotgun 17:20 

showed 42:10 

sic 3:4 11:12 

significant 32:7 

similar 6: 1 9 12: 12 

17:5 20:10,16 

33:10 

simple 10:11 11:6 

15:7,917:1 

simply 25:2 

Singer2:13 3:11 

single 31:18 32:20 

sir 30:9 

sitting 3:11 28:19 

situation 29: 1 

32:16 

situations 28:18 

29:3 

skies 40:14 

slightly 42:8 

small11:2,316:10 

18:22 21:15 

22:14 32:16 

someone 25: 1 

somewhat 31:16 

sorry 15:1517:11 
19:18 33:22 

36:22 37:2,21 

sort9:215:122:17 

24:1026:3,13,14 

27:15 28:8,9 

29:19 35:4 

sounded 34: 13 

sounds 34:4 

spark 28:2I 

speak 9:12 

speaking 30:8 

37:20 

specifically 1 0:20 

22:22 23:8 26:17 

27:1 32:2 

speed 40:22 

stand 39:3 42:9 

standard 7:6 

stands 14:1 

start 34: I3 

starting 36:8 

37:17 

state 11 :22 23: 1 

27:1 

stated 10:20 

statement 24:5 

26:6 

states 23:9,15 

26:17 27:11,13 

statutory 27:5 

stay 5:20 

step 23:4 

steps 22:15 

stop 22:7 34:10 

strict 15:1716:13 

39:3 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page 11 

strictly 15: 13 surrounded 32:13 

21:20 system 35:7 

student 3: 12, 13 

stupid 34:21 35:6 T 

subject 15:19 T-10 27:12 

subjected 39:18 tailored 3 5: 15 

submit 30:I7 talk 4:13,14,15 

5:2,21 7:10 

subsection 34:1137:14 

13:17,18 14:3 39:16 41:5,18 

successful 29:8 talked 17:18 29:9 

SULLIVAN 1:14 38:14,17 

3:2 4:20 talking 15:8 

5:2,15,20 7:5,18 41:4,14 

10:4 11:10,20 telephone 4:8 12:2,6,11,14,18 

13:8 14:14 ten 15:6 

15:11,1617:4 term 22:8 41:1 

18:3,6,I5 

terms 4:21 33:8 19:8,11,2220:14 

21:IO 22:5,7 testimony 44:4,7 

23:21 25:13 thank 10:4 17:12 

29:6,13 30:2,8 30:2 31:3 33:4 

31:3,14 34:I9 

33:4,18,20 35:12,18,19,20 34:I0,19 37:3 

35:12,20 43:2,3, 7,8,9, 10 

36:16,20 Thanks 7:19 37:3,10,19 

38:3,7 42:3,21 that's 5:11 10:14 

43:3 12:414:13 

summarize 7:21 16:4,7,21 

summary 7:2 17:2,10,2218:10 

19:6,19 30:22 

support 7:14 8:9 31:19 32:19,20 

sure 5:22 11:21 33:1,13,17 35:10 

15:3 16:18 18:5 38:7 

19:I8 2I:I,18 themselves 34:21 

26:1 27:22 28:5 40:17 

40:22 thereafter 44:5 

surprise 40:6,9 thereof8:16 9:9,22 

(866) 448- DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

there's 21:12 

26:1131:19 

41:10 

they'1124:17,19 

they're 6:16 22:16 

28:13,17 40:2 

they've 6:4 

throughout 8:20 

throw 42:12 

Thursday 1:10 

37:12,17 

Thursdays 37:22 

Tice 1:5 2:10 3:3,9 

4:10,20 

5:1,15,I8,21 

7:3,4 I 0:6, 7, I 0 

11:12,I8 

I2:I,5,9,12,17 

I3:614:13,18 

15:15 16:1 17:7 

18:5,13,22 

19:10,18 20:3 

21:6,7,13 

22:9,20 24:16 

25:2,16 28:18 

29:8 30:7 

31:4,8,21 32:21 

33:5,7 

34:12,15,20 

35:19 36:20 

37:4,8,16,20,21, 

22 38:5,21 39:5 

40:6 42:3,7 

43:2,9,12 

Tice's 24:1,5 30:12 

34:4 38:16 39:2 

ticket 19:2 42:9 

title 39:3 

today 3:4 

4:8,13,22 
5:7,12,17 34:9 

35:22 36:2 37:11 

39:7 42:1 43:4,5 

total39:9 

totally 19:5 33:11 

touched 39:7 

town 38:1 

transcript 45:5,7 

transcription 44:6 

45:1,8 

Transcriptionist 

45:14 

transport 23:6, 1 3 

transportation 

1 : 1 5 21 :21 3 8: 1 6 

transported 38:19 

trash 42:13 

travel 24:21 

tremendous 40:3 

trial 7: 15 41 : 1 7 

trip 1 1:1 14:20 

15:4 17:19 

true 44:6 45:8 

try 15:2 28:13,14 

29:2 31:20 

40:14,19 

trying 27:21,22 

TSA 18:19 24:11 

25:6 

turn 5:10 11:1 1 

21:18 23:7 

turned 38:18 

type 4: 1 6 13:1 9 

14:20 

21:14,17,20 

23:13 26:20 

27:18 29:21 

Capital Reporting Company 

In Re: Scott Tice 05-16-2013 

Page 12 

30:20 33:1,9 

39:1 v 

typed 45:5 variety 3: 1 7 40:3 

types 22:13,18,19 venue4:15 

25:8 26:5 Vermont 18:20 

28:6,17 29:2 versus 1 5:1 8 3 1 :22 

31:20 39:14,18 violated 9:6 

typewriting 44:5 

violation 9:5 26:20 

typically 27:10,14,18 24:8,12,17 25:7 30:14,15 32:8 

27:11 

violations 

typing 12:20 6:3,7,9,15 8:12 

13:1 23:2 26:13 

u 28:629:1039:10 

u.s 1:15 27:6 40:17 

u.s.c 27:7 29:14 voice 3:15 40:21 

umbrellas 35:17 volume 14:1 

underlying 30:1 3 

undermines 28:8,9 w 

wallets 28:15 

understand 5:22 

6:13 15:16 Washington 

16:12,16 20:9 1:10,16 

30:12 35:16 weather 3:16 

understanding 40:21 

8:21 10:21 Wednesday 3:4 

undisputed 25:14 week 36:10,15,19 

39:19 weighed 11 :3 

uneven 18:8 weighing 14:9 

unfolded 1 7: 1 5 weight 27:3 

unfortunately welcome 3:13 

22:20 28:15 34:7 21:1041:13 

unintentional we'1136:5 37:13 

25:18 

we're 3:2 4:21 9:7 

unless 23:9 12:9 33:9 34:8 

unlike 18:3 35:22 37:15 

upon 24:5 27:4 west 17:19 

39:7 we've 29:3 30:21 

(866) 448 - DEPO 

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2013 

31:1 

whatever 7: 12 

37:14 

Whereupon 43:11 

whether 5:6 15:21 

20:5 25:1 26:21 

28:2 35:5 

whoever 34:11 

whole 16:20 17:15 

27:17 34:17 

whom 44:2 

who's 18:1,2 

wide 40:3 

willing 31:1 5 

Wisconsin 1 1 :22 

12:4 

wish 43:7 

witnesses 41 :8 

wondering 1 5: 1 4 

31:12 

work 4:18,21 37:7 

works 4:19 5:14 

38:6 

worried 15:4,5 

worthy 6:16 11:6 

19:12 

writing 16:6 34:3 

written 6:2,3 

19:15 40:15 

y 

yours 20:16,17 

yourself 13:10 

14:7 42:4 

you've 21:8 29:7 

35:14,21