FEDERA L AVIATIO NADMINISTRATIO N

I nth e Matte r o f ) ) FDM S No . FAA-2011-100 9 QUENTO NT . BROW N) Roo m6 0 0 Heritag e Reportin g Corp . 122 0 L Street , N.W . Washington , D.C . Tuesday , '-

- '^-\ Novembe r 22 , 201 1 f ^y^^^^i^

n Th e partie s met , pursuan t t o notic e a t 10:1 2 a.m . ^ ""^o ^

BEFORE : J.E . Sulliva nV i~~ r

Judg e _ c^CTiC ^ •C o APPEARANCES : (Vi a Telephone ) O nbehal f o f Complainant : MAR KG . CAMACHO , Esquir e FA A- Offic e o f th e Regiona l Counse l 90 1 Locust , Roo m50 6 Kansa s City , Missour i 64106-264 1 (816 ) 329-376 5

Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 PROCEEDING S 2 (10:1 2 a.m. ) 3 JUDGE-SULLIVAN : We'r e o nth e recor di nth e 4 matte r o f Quento nT . Brown . Thi s i s FAAdocke t numbe r 5 --i t look s lik e I don' t hav e one . It' s t o b e 6 assigned . Bu t I d o hav e a nFDM S docke t number , an d 7 that' s FAA-2011-1009 . 8 Toda yi s Tuesday , Novembe r 22 , 2011 , an dth e 9 partie s hav e convene dfo r a litigatio nschedulin g 1 0 conferenc e b ytelephone . Th e Federa l Aviatio n 1 1 Administratio ni s represente db yMar k G , Camacho , wh o 1 2 i s th e attorne yo f record . Quento nT . Brow ni s a pr o 1 3 s e Respondent . H e i s no t presen t today . 1 4 Goo dmorning , Mr . Camacho . 1 5 MR . CAMACHO : Goo dmorning , Judg e Sullivan . 1 6 An dma yI sa ya s a sideba r remark , welcom e t o th e - - I 1 7 wil l cal l i t jus t th e agency . I'v e ha dth e pleasur e 1 8 o f workin g wit hJudg e Goodwi nfo r man yyears , an dhi s 1 9 predecesso r befor e him . Bu t I'v e no t ha dth e occasio n 2 0 t o wor k wit hyou , an dI' mlookin g forwar dt o 2 1 presentin g thi s cas e i nfron t o f you . 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Than k you . That' s ver y 2 3 kin do f you . An dI woul dsa ytha t I' mbein g welcome d 2 4 t o th e Offic e o f Hearings , i f tha t woul db e 2 5 acceptable . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 83

1 MR . CAMACHO : That' s th e Offic e o f Hearings , 2 okay . I go t tongue-tied , an dthat' s th e firs t tim e 3 tha t I thin k I'v e ha dtha t occasio nhappe nfo r a 4 spell . 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , we'r e al l excite dfo r 6 Thanksgiving . 7 MR . CAMACHO : Tha t mus t b e it . It' s th e 8 turke ytha t ha s go t m e confused . 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . Le t m e simpl ynot e 1 0 tha t thi s matte r appear s t o hav e bee nfile da t thi s 1 1 offic e o no r abou t Septembe r 21 , 2011 . Ther e wa s a 1 2 pr o s e reques t fo r hearin g fro mMr . Brow ntha t wa s 1 3 file da t th e sam e time . Thi s notic e o f litigatio n 1 4 schedulin g conferenc e wa s serve do nth e partie s o n 1 5 Novembe r 7 , 2011 . 1 6 Withi ntha t notice , ther e wa s a specifi c 1 7 directio ntha t th e partie s tal k t o eac hothe r prio r t o 1 8 today' s conferenc e an dtha t Mr . Brow nfil e a writte n 1 9 answe r t o th e complaint . 2 0 So , Mr . Camacho , let' s star t wit hwhethe r o r 2 1 no t you'v e ha da chanc e t o tal k t o Mr . Brow nbefor e 2 2 today . 2 3 MR . CAMACHO : Th e answe r t o th e questio ni s 24 yes , ver ybriefly , yesterda yafternoon . I contacte d 2 5 hi mo nFriday , th e 18th , lef t a voicemai l message . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 1 contacte dhi myesterda yi nth e morning , lef t a voic e

2 mai l message . Midwa ythroug hth e afternoon , h e di d 3 retur nm

ycall . I spok e t o hi mbriefl yI addresse d 4 th e reaso nfo r th e call , whic hwa s t o follo wyou r 5 directive . H e di dno t kno wwha t I wa s talkin g about . 6 I said , well , loo k a t you r notice . H e said , I don' t 7 hav e a notice . I said , well , I hav e her e a servic e 8 lis t tha t show s tha t yo u ar e suppose dt o hav e one , H e 9 said , I hav e no t receive dit . I gav e hi mDian e Mays ' 1 0 number , andexplaine dwh o sh e was , aske dhi mt o cal l 1 1 her , andI assure dhi mtha t i f h e woul dtha t sh e woul d 1 2 provid e i t t o hi ms o tha t w e coul da t leas t addres s 1 3 th e content . 1 4 H e didn' t kno wwha t i nth e worl dI wa s 1 5 reall ytalkin g about . H e di dno t retur nmycall . I 1 6 di dg o throug hth e itemize dlistin g o f wha t i s i n 1 7 paragrap htwo , exchang e o f witnes s list , e t cetera , e t 1 8 cetera . Bu t frankly , i t wa s somethin g tha t h e wa s no t 1 9 familia r wit hbecaus e h e ha dno t see nth e document , 2 0 accordin g t o him . 

### 2 1 That' s th e exten t o f tha t effort . A t thi s 2 2 juncture , I woul dsa yw e ar e - - it' s a nunknow nt o m e 2 3 a s t o whethe r h e eve r go t th e - - one , whethe r h e eve r 2 4 calle dMs . Mays . Two , whethe r h e eve r receive dthi s 2 5 documen t a s a matte r o f fact , o r whethe r h e followe d Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 5

1 throug han daske dfo r i t yesterda yan dsubsequentl y 2 go t i t o r hasn' t go t it . Tha t I d o no t know . 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Whe nyo uwer e speakin g wit h 4 hi m

yesterda yo nth e telephon e - - 5 MR . CAMACHO : Yes . 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Di dyo ubyanychanc e 7 confir mwha t hi s mailin g addres s migh t be ? 8 MR . CAMACHO : Tha t I di dnot . I di dno t as k 9 hi m

that . No , I di dnot . Now , I wil l sa yw e hav e no t 1 0 receive danyreturne dmai l fromanyo f ou r 1 1 communication s wit hhi mdow ni nOrlando . Tha t i s t o 1 2 say , myfil e doesn' t contai nreturne dletter s 1 3 indicatin g tha t tha t addres s i s incorrect . S o workin g 1 4 wit htha t a s a premise , I di dno t confirm , bu t I' m 1 5 jus t doin g a follow-up t o le t yo ukno wtha t I suspec t 1 6 th e addres s i s correct . 1 7 Th e phon e numbe r provide dtha t yo uhav e o n 1 8 you r servic e lis t i s th e numbe r tha t I called , andi t 1 9 wa s th e numbe r tha t I wa s abl e t o reac hhi mthat . To

2 0 th e exten t tha t he , i na voicemai l greeting , indicate d 2 1 i t wa s hi s telephone . 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Than k you . An dthe n 2 3 t o answe r you r question , thi s offic e ha s ha dn o 2 4 contac t fro m Mr . Brown . 2 5 MR . CAMACHO : Okay . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 81 JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o ther e ha s bee nn o phon e

2 c£il l fro mMr . Brow nt o Ms . Mays , wh o i s my 3 administrativ e assistant , n o recor dtha t h e ha s 4 contacte danyon e els e her e i nth e offic e t o reques t 5 copie s o f litigatio nmaterial s tha t hav e bee nsen t t o 6 th e parties , n o recor dtha t Mr . Brow nha s calle dan d 7 aske dfo r an yassistanc e i nnavigatin g th e lega l 8 complexitie s o f th e materia l tha t ha s bee nsen t t o 9 him , althoug hI woul dnot e tha t I d o tr yan dmak e i t 1 0 a s user-friendl ya s possible . 1 1 MR . CAMACHO : Understood . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o tha t leave s u s wit hth e 1 3 fac t tha t Mr . Brow nmus t fil e a writte nanswe r 3 0 day s 1 4 afte r th e notic e o f complain t wa s file dwit hthi s 1 5 office , whic hwoul dhav e bee no no r abou t Octobe r 21 , 1 6 2 011 . Mr . Brow nha s als o faile dt o fil e a writte n 1 7 answe r wit hthi s offic e afte r th e notic e o f litigatio n 1 8 schedulin g telephon e conferenc e wa s serve do nth e 1 9 parties , an dtha t shoul dhav e bee ndu e o r befor e 2 0 today , Novembe r 22 , 2011 . 2 1 Whe nyo uspok e t o Mr . Brow nyesterday , di d 2 2 yo uge t a sens e fro mMr . Brow ntha t h e wa s i nan ywa y 2 3 plannin g t o participat e i nthi s reques t fo r hearin g 2 4 tha t h e initiate dprio r t o Septembe r 21 , 2011 ? I 2 5 don' t wan t t o delv e int o an yprivat e conversation s Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 tha t yo u- - 2 MR . C^J^ACHO : No . I ha dn o privat e 3 conversations . I understand , Judge . Judg e Sullivan , 4 whe nI spok e wit hhim , i t seeme d- - I mean , th e 5 obviou s questio nfo r m e was , Mr . Brown , i f yo udidn' t 6 ge t th e document , ho wdi dyo ukno wtha t ther e wa s 7 goin g t o b e a conferenc e tomorrow . An dh e wa s th e on e 8 wh o su a spont e o nhi s ow ninitiativ e indicate dtha t h e 9 vjas awar e o f th e fac t tha t ther e wa s a conferenc e 1 0 today , an dh e sai dh e didn' t kno wabou t i t becaus e h e 1 1 go t a document . H e kne wabou t i t onl ybecaus e h e 1 2 calle dyou r offic e an dlearne db ywa yo f tha t 1 3 telephon e cal l tha t thi s conferenc e wa s scheduled . 1 4 That' s th e exten t o f tha t communication . H e 1 5 di dno t indicat e tha t h e wa s goin g t o o r no t goin g to . 1 6 Bu t h e di dindicat e ver yclearl ytha t h e kne wtha t th e 1 7 conferenc e wa s schedule dan dwa s awar e o f i t b ywa yo f 1 8 tha t phon e contact . 1 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I shoul dnot e tha t 2 0 "

- well , le t m e backtrac k o nthat . Okay . I shoul d 2 1 not e tha t Ms . May s di dcal l Mr . Brow nsevera l time s 2 2 thi s mornin g befor e w e wen t o nth e recor da t hi s 2 3 telephon e numbe r o f record , whic hi s 321-594-8501 . N o 24 on e answere dth e phone . 2 5 So , Mr . Camacho , w e ca nd o severa l differen t Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 81 . thing s i nthi s particula r case . I ca nse t thi s matte r

2 ove r on e mor e tim e t o tr yagai nt o tr yan dreac hMr . 3 Brown . W e ca nhav e a secon dlitigatio nschedulin g 4 conferenc e wit ha ne wnotic e se t out . That' s optio n 5 numbe r one . 6 Optio nnumbe r tw o woul db e t o unilaterall y 7 se t al l litigatio ndate s toda ywit hsufficien t tim e t o 3 allo wyo ut o fil e a dispositiv e motion . 9 MR . CAMACHO : I understand . 1 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Numbe r three , I coul dno t 1 1 se t anythin g ne wb ytelephone , no t se t an ylitigatio n 1 2 dates , bu t calenda r somethin g o nbot ho f ou r calendar s 1 3 a s a deadlin e fo r yo ut o fil e somethin g tha t woul db e 1 4 dispositive . An dI hav e bee nlookin g a t th e rule s fo r 1 5 FA Acases , an di t appear s t o m e tha t th e genera l 1 6 practic e her e ha s no t bee nt o encourag e defaul t 1 7 motions . Bu t I don' t se e anythin g withi nth e 1 8 regulation s tha t prohibi t it . 1 9 MR . CAMACHO : Right . 2 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yo u migh t tel l m e 2 1 differently , bu t a s I loo k a t th e FA Aregulation s an d 2 2 the na t th e civi l rules , ther e appear s t o b e ampl e 2 3 opportunit yt o fil e thos e kind s o f motion s an dhav e 2 4 the mgrante dbase do nth e pleading s an da non 2 5 respondin g litigant . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 81 MR . CAMACHO : M yexperienc e ha s bee n~ - an d

2 becaus e fo r whateve r th e reason , Judge , i t jus t 3 happen s t o b e tha t m yexperienc e ha s bee nlimite d- - 4 an dI'v e bee nher e 2 2 year s i nthi s office , bu t I'v e 5 bee na tria l lawye r fo r 31 , bu t onl y2 2 a t thi s 6 agency . An dI wil l tel l yo utha t i nthos e 2 2 years , 7 al l o f mycases , fo r whateve r th e reason , hav e alway s 8 falle n'int o tha t categor yo f wes t o f th e Mississippi' . 9 It'sjust a strang e se t o f circumstances . 1 0 I'v e no t ha doccasio nt o hav e a cas e aris e 1 1 tha t wen t t o hearin g eas t o f th e Mississippi . S o th e 1 2 hearing s tha t I'v e ha dan dth e case s an dth e pleading s 1 3 an dal l o f tha t ha s bee nwit hi nlarg e measur e Judg e 1 4 Goodwi nan dthe nhi s predecessor . 1 5 Numbe r one , I don' t recal l a tim e eve r whe n 1 6 we'v e ha da notic e o f litigatio nscheduling . Quit e 1 7 frankly , wha t we'v e receive di s a norder , i f yo uwill , 1 8 wher e th e judg e ha s su a spont e befor e th e partie s ar e 1 9 awar e o f i t mad e determination s tha t we'r e startin g 2 0 today , an dyou'v e go t 9 0 day s t o finis hyou r 2 1 discovery , yo uknow . An dthen , yo uknow , whe nyou'r e 2 2 done,.we'r e goin g t o se t withi ns o man yday s followin g 2 3 tha t eithe r a prehearin g conferenc e o r a hearing . 2 4 Tha t ha s bee nm yexperience . Thi s i s uniqu e 2 5 an ddifferent , an dI jus t sa ytha t t o yo ubecaus e I' m Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 1 0

1 sor t o f workin g mywa ythroug hnavigatin g throug hne w 2 waters , Irrespective , eve ni ntha t setting , I woul d 3 o nm

yowninitiativ e - - andI wa s waitin g - - I wasn' t 4 waiting , quit e frankly . I've go t othe r case s tha t I' m 5 workin g on , andprobabl ypu t hi mo nth e bac k burner . 6 I' m

sur e m

yparalega l probabl yo nhe r tickle r ha s i t 7 t o brin g i t up . 8 Bu t i nth e absenc e o f th e answer , I wa s 9 goin g t o fil e a motio nirrespectiv e t o se e wher e i t 1 0 woul dfall . An dbasically , i t woul db e a motio nt o 1 1 dee m

th e allegation s admitted , an dthe nt o as k fo r a n 1 2 orde r t o b e entere daccordingly . Tha t havin g bee n 1 3 said , that' s myexperience . That' s wha t I wa s goin g 1 4 t o do . 1 5 A s a matte r o f equity , I thin k i nal l 1 6 fairnes s t o Mr . Brown , Mr . Brow ni s th e on e wh o aske d 1 7 fo r th e hearing . I think tha t a s a matte r o f fairnes s 1 8 an djustic e t o him , h e i s pr o se . Yo ukno w- - 1 9 althoug hI don' t know , I forget , bu t I tryno t t o 2 0 forge t tha t th e issue s o f la war e complex , andeve ni f 2 1 the yar e administrativ e i nnatur e versu s i nth e 2 2 Federa l Distric t Court , irrespective , I thin k ever y 2 3 civilia nget s a littl e bi t intimidated , obviousl ylos t 2 4 lik e a lam

bi nth e woods . 2 5 Perhap s th e bette r cours e o f actio nwoul d Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 1 1

1 be , notwithstandin g whateve r motio nI coul dfile , tha t 2 a secon dnotic e b e provide dt o Mr . Brown , an dgiv e hi m 3 a nopportunit yt o participat e i nthi s procedure . Tha t 4 woul db e m

yresponse . Andi f yo uthink tha t that' s 5 no t th e appropriat e course , the nI wil l procee d 6 forwar dt o fil e a motio naccordingly . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : No . I' mhapp yt o se t thi s 8 u p fo r a secon dlitigatio nschedulin g conference . I 9 to o lik e t o er r o nth e sid e o f cautio nwhe nI' m 1 0 dealin g wit hpr o s e litigants , andI thin k it' s a wis e 1 1 metho dt o fal l bac k on . 1 2 I nterm s o f th e proces s tha t you'r e 1 3 experiencin g toda ytha t i s differen t fro mwha t yo u 1 4 hav e experience di nth e past , I' mdoin g som e 1 5 experimentation , quit e frankly . 1 6 MR . CAMACHO : Okay . I lik e it . I lik e it . 1 7 I mean , thi s i s - - I shar e tha t wit hyo uonl ybecaus e 1 8 I' mi nth e positio nt o sayit' s s o nove l t o m e tha t I 1 9 findi t - - it' s refreshin g anddifferen t andnew , and 2 0 i t provide s th e partie s a nopportunit yt o participat e 2 1 earl yon . 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Right . Bu t wit hpr o s e 2 3 litigant s i nparticular , thi s t o m e i s a muc hmor e 2 4 efficien t metho do f tryin g t o ge t th e partie s togethe r 2 5 withou t a lo t o f cos t andwithou t a lo t o f angst . I Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 1 2

1 amals o quit e happ yt o utiliz e th e proces s wher e ther e 2 ar e procedura l order s sen t ou t t o th e partie s askin g 3 themt o ge t togethe r andtal k abou t a join t procedura l 4 schedule . 5 Myexperience , however , i s tha t th e faste r I 6 ca nge t folk s o nboar dwit htalkin g t o eac hothe r and 7 exchangin g information , th e mor e tim e yo uhav e t o 8 devot e th e essential s o f litigation , whic hi s th e 9 depositions , th e interrogatories , th e request s fo r 1 0 production , th e motion s fo r summar yjudgment , ands o 1 1 forth . S o I' m experimentin g a littl e bi t abou t whe nI 1 2 woul dlik e t o schedul e matter s immediatel yfo r a 1 3 litigatio nschedulin g conferenc e bytelephone , an d 1 4 whe nthos e kind s o f case s com e up wher e I thin k th e 1 5 partie s nee dt o tal k t o eac hothe r firs t befor e the y 1 6 ge t m e o nth e phone . 1 7 Wha t I' mfindin g i s tha t jus t lookin g a t th e 1 8 pleading s andth e answer s sometime s tell s m e enough , 1 9 whe nI nee dt o tos s th e bal l bac k t o counse l t o loo k 2 0 a t again , andwhe nI thin k th e partie s ma yb e readyt o 2 1 ge t o nth e phon e an dstar t talkin g abou t scheduling . 2 2 I t seem s t o m e tha t th e faste r w e ca nschedul e a tria l 2 3 date , an dtha t w e hav e everybodyo nth e line , tha t w e 2 4 hav e everybody' s calenda r i nfron t o f them , i t doesn' t 2 5 hav e t o b e 6 0 day s fro mth e dat e o f th e schedulin g Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 1 3

1 conference . I t ca nb e si xo r eigh t month s iiway . Bu t 2 tha t give s folk s a du e dat e tha t i s clear , 3 unequivocal , andcalendared . An dI think i t make s i t 4 muc heasie r tha nt o figur e ou t ho wyou'r e goin g t o d o 5 you r prehearin g matter s i na wa ythat' s comfortable . 6 An dcurrently , wha t I hav e bee ndoin g i s 7 settin g thing s ou t s o tha t they'r e se t o neverybody' s 8 calenda r a t a time whe neveryon e feel s comfortabl e 9 wit hthos e calenda r dates . Peopl e ca nthe nschedul e 1 0 thei r trave l th e wa ythe ywant . The yca nschedul e 1 1 thei r hotel s th e wa ythe ywant . The yca nse t up thei r 1 2 deposition s i na muc hmor e unpressure dfashion , I 1 3 guess , woul db e th e bes t way . 1 4 MR . CAMACHO ; Right . 1 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Now , becaus e I' mnewe r t o 1 6 thi s particula r jurisdiction , thos e thing s ca nge t 1 7 tweake dandchanged . We'l l se e ho wi t goes . 1 8 S o wit hthat , I thin k havin g diverte dint o 1 9 thi s a littl e bi t o f procedura l material , wha t I wil l 2 0 d o i s I wil l as k you , sir , t o loo k a t you r calendar , 2 1 an dyo u andI ca ncalenda r togethe r a secon d 2 2 litigatio nschedulin g conferenc e date , andthe nI wil l 2 3 sen dou t a notic e t o bot hyo uandt o Mr . Brown . I'l l 2 4 as k yo uals o t o tryan dcal l Mr . Brow nagai nbetwee n 2 5 no wandth e nex t dat e t o se e i f yo uca nspea k wit hhi m Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 agai nabou t thes e matters . 2 MR . CAMACHO : Right . 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : The nt o repor t back . Toda y 4 i s Novembe r 22 , 2011 . I woul dsuspec t tha t give nth e 5 Thanksgivin g holiday , i t probabl ywoul db e bes t fo r u s 6 t o schedul e thi s th e wee k o f Decembe r 12th . Wil l yo u 7 b e availabl e a t an ytim e durin g tha t week ? 8 MR . CAMACHO:

- I ca nsa yrigh t no wtha t I 9 believ e tha t I wil l b e availabl e tha t week . M ybrea d 1 0 an dbutte r wor k i nthi s offic e - - I' ma senio r 1 1 enforcemen t attorney , an dI prosecut e administrativ e 1 2 case s i nfron t o f th e NTS B o na regula r basis . That' s 1 3 wha t I d o her e fo r a living . An dclearly , tha t woul d 1 4 includ e civi l penalt ycase s suc ha s thi s one . Bu t th e 1 5 lion' s shar e o f tha t work , Judge , no t t o digres s to o 1 6 long , involve s th e typ e o f action s wher e th e 1 7 respondent s ar e al l member s o f th e aviatio nindustr y 1 8 i nsom e manner , form , o r shape . 1 9 An dI hav e a cas e righ t no winvolvin g a 2 0 commercia l pilot . I' mrevokin g hi s certificate , an d 2 1 th e NTS B i s o na nemergenc ybasis , whic hmean s tha t 2 2 th e orde r i s immediatel yeffective . Th e NTS B rule s 2 3 requir e tha t th e hearin g b e hel dwithi n3 0 days . S o I 24 hav e n o contro l ove r th e settin g o f that , bu t th e 2 5 rule s driv e tha t trai nunles s th e responden t waive s Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 tha t hearing , whic hwit ha commercia l ticke t i s mor e 2 likel ytha nno t tha t i t woul dno t happen . 3 . S o I sa yt o yo ua t th e presen t time , becaus e 4 tha t orde r i s goin g ou t toda yo r tomorrow , a t th e 5 lates t probabl yMonday , tha t withi n3 0 day s - - s o 6 certainl ytha t wee k i s withi ntha t window . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . 8 MR . CAMACHO : Bu t a t thi s juncture , I ca n 9 sa yi ngoo dfaith , knowin g wha t th e calenda r is , 1 0 that' s i t clearl yopen , an dI wil l mak e mysel f 1 1 availabl e a t whateve r tim e yo uhav e available . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dwhe nyo ud o thes e kind s 1 3 o f case s tha t ar e se t i nsuc ha shor t schedule , d o yo u 1 4 hav e someon e els e i nth e offic e wh o ca ncove r fo r yo u 1 5 i f yo uar e i ntria l an dcanno t participat e i na 1 6 telephon e conference ? 1 7 MR . CAMACHO : Ther e i s anothe r attorne yi n 1 8 m yoffice . Tha t i s no t ou r practice . Ou r regiona l 1 9 counse l like s t o hav e u s maintai n- - a s h e says , w e 2 0 hav e responsibilit yfro mcradl e t o grav e o nou r cases , 2 1 ou r cas e files . That' s no t t o sa ytha t i t can' t b e 2 2 done . It' s jus t t o sa ytha t historicall ytha t hasn' t 2 3 bee ndone . But , yo uknow , i f necessit yi s suc htha t 2 4 i t ha s t o b e done , the nobviousl yw e wil l ge t i t 2 5 accomplished . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Le t m e as k yo uthis . Wit h 2 you r NTS B cases , d o yo uhav e a nopportunit ya t time s 3 t o tak e a quic k brea k t o cove r somethin g lik e this , i f 4 i nfac t - - 5 MR . CAMACHO : Yes . 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . 7 MR . CAMACHO : Yes . I woul dtal k t o th e 8 judge , an dw e coul dtak e a brea k an dd o i t a t th e 9 time . Bu t again , wha t I woul dd o i s onc e th e judg e 1 0 issue s a norde r settin g th e hearin g - - an di nthi s 1 1 instance , i t wil l b e I'l l hav e t o trave l t o St . Louis . 1 2 It' s a three-da yexcursio nfo r m e becaus e I trave l 1 3 aroun dth e countr ywhereve r - - becaus e o f th e natur e 1 4 o f th e beast , give ntha t peopl e mov e around , the n 1 5 sometimes , yo u know , a neven t wil l happen , let' s say 1 6 i nMinnesot a o r De s Moines , an dthen , yo uknow , I'l l 1 7 hav e t o fl yt o L.A . o r Nevad a t o d o th e hearing . 1 8 It'sjusta ninterestin g dilemma , no t unlik e 1 9 actuall yyou r case s a s well . Righ t now , I anticipat e 2 0 - - I don' t know , bu t I' manticipatin g tha t Mr . Brown 2 1 wil l as k tha t th e hearin g b e hel dwher e h e lives , i n 2 2 Orlando . An dthat' s you r call . Bu t s o I woul dtak e a 2 3 brea k an d- - bu t wha t I wa s goin g t o sayi s tha t I 2 4 woul dnormall y- - I woul di ntha t instanc e cal l yo u 2 5 immediatel yt o le t yo u kno wtha t - - i f I hav e a Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 81 7

1 conflict , I wil l cal l yo uimmediatel yan dsay , Judge , 2 w e hav e thi s thin g schedule dfo r thi s conferenc e fo r 3 suc ha day . I'v e gotte nyou r order . Ther e i s a 4 conflict . D o yo uwan t t o sli p i t forwar do r backwar d 5 a littl e bit , o r ca nyo uadjust ? Yo uknow , tha t sor t 6 o f thing . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dwha t I' msayin g i s tha t 8 m yfirs t reques t t o yo uwoul db e t o as k th e tria l 9 judg e i f yo ucoul dtak e a break . 1 0 MR . CAMACHO : An dI ca nd o that . An dI wil l 1 1 certainl yd o that . Certainly , I wil l tr yt o d o - - an d 1 2 I wil l d o that , period , an dwe'1 1 se e wha t h e says . I 1 3 don' t anticipat e ther e woul db e a proble mwit hthat . 1 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . The nknowin g that , 1 5 an dyo uhav e a three-da ytria l tha t migh t o r migh t no t 1 6 b e se t thi s wee k - - 1 7 MR . CAMACHO : Th e wee k o f th e 12th , yes . 1 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Correct . Woul di t b e 1 9 bette r i nyou r opinio nt o tr yan dschedul e thi s lat e 2 0 i nth e wee k o f Decembe r 5th ? O r d o yo uwan t t o jus t 2 1 g o ahea dan dtr yfo r th e wee k o f th e 12th ? 2 2 MR . CAMACHO : I thin k i t woul db e bette r t o 2 3 tr yi t th e wee k o f th e - - well , le t m e loo k a t thi s 24 an dthin k abou t thi s fo r a second . 2 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I coul deve nschedul e - - Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 MR . CAMACHO : I woul dthink , t o b e hones t 2 wit hyou , th e wee k o f Decembe r 5t hi s probabl ybetter . 3 An dth e reaso nit' s bette r i s becaus e procedurall y 4 ther e ar e a numbe r o f day s tha t ar e require dfo r a 5 particula r proces s t o b e carrie dout , whic hi s a 6 proces s tha t provide s th e Responden t th e opportunity , 7 tw o day s t o fil e a motio nquestionin g th e emergenc y 8 natur e o f th e administrator' s decision . An di ntha t 9 instance , th e judg e ha s t o mak e tha t determinatio n 1 0 withi nfiv e days . 1 1 S o th e firs t o f th e 3 0 calenda r days , a 1 2 perio do f tha t time i s spen t addressin g that . An d 1 3 tha t woul dhappe nearlie r o ntha nnot . An ds o th e 1 4 wee k o f th e fift hwoul dprobabl yb e a bette r wee k tha n 1 5 not . 1 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , the nwhydon' t w e 1 7 loo k a t Wednesday , Decembe r 7th . 1 8 MR . CAMACHO : Okay . 1 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : D o yo uhav e tim e availabl e 2 0 o ntha t day ? 2 1 MR . CAMACHO : Yes , Judge . W e can•d o i t th e 2 2 sam e tim e a s now , 9:0 0 i nth e mornin g here , 10:0 0 2 3 thei r time , i f tha t woul db e okay . 2 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I've go t somethin g a t 1 0 2 5 o'cloc k already . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 8•

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1 MR . CAMACHO : Al l right . Le t m e loo k a t — 2well , yo ukno wwhat ? Wh ydon' t w e jus t wor k o nyou r 3 calenda r becaus e righ t no wI'1 1 fle xm ytime , whateve r 4 i s needed , base do nyou r availability . 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Woul d1:3 0 b e acceptable ? 6 MR . CAMACHO : 1:3 0 Easter no r Central ? 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Eastern . 8 MR . CAMACHO : That' s 12:3 0 ou r time . Yes . 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Let' s pla no n1:3 0 o n 1 0 Decembe r 7 , 2011 . An dI wil l sen dou t a ne wnotic e o f 1 1 litigatio nschedulin g conferenc e t o bot hyo uan dt o 1 2 Mr . Brown . Hopefully , Mr . Brow nwil l appea r a t tha t 1 3 secon dconference . I f yo ufin dtha t h e ha s a 1 4 differen t phon e numbe r o r a differen t address , shoul d 1 5 yo uhav e th e goo dfortun e t o tal k t o hi magai nbetwee n 1 6 no wan dth e sevent ho f Decembe r 2011 , pleas e le t u s 1 7 know , an dw e ca nfil e amende dpaperwor k t o mak e sur e 1 8 tha t h e i s apprise do f an yfurthe r conferences . 1 9 MR . CAMACHO : Yes . I wil l contac t Ms . May s 2 0 an dle t he r know . 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Wit hthat , o nbehal f 2 2 o f you r client , i s ther e anythin g els e tha t yo uwoul d 2 3 lik e t o cove r durin g today' s proceedings ? 2 4 MR . CAMACHO : Th e onl yquestio nI woul d 2 5 have . Judge , i s jus t a - - it' s no t reall y- - it' s mor e Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 8#

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1 o f a curiou s question . An dagain , i nligh t o f you r 2 experimentation , whe nw e ge t dow nt o bras s tack s s o 3 tha t I ca nsor t o f projec t forward , on e o f myjudge s 4 i s goin g throug hhi p replacement , an dhe' s ou t throug h 5 December . An ds o som e o f ou r case s tha t wer e dockete d 6 hav e obviousl ybee npu t o nth e bac k burner . 7 Bu t I assur e you , whe nh e come s back , he' s 8 goin g t o start , yo uknow , lik e h e ha s t o clea r tha t 9 docke t tha t ge t thos e hearing s set . S o whe nw e tal k 1 0 abou t settin g litigatio no r lookin g dow nth e road , d o 1 1 yo uanticipat e tha t thi s cas e woul db e tried , say , b y 1 2 o r before , say , th e summer , o r i s i t you r anticipatio n 1 3 tha t i t woul db e trie dsometim e i nth e spring ? I just • 1 4 wan t t o hav e a fee l fo r that . 1 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Currently , I' mbooke d 1 6 throug hth e en do f Marc h2012 . 1 7 MR . CAMACHO : S o we'r e headin g towar dth e 1 8 summer , spring-summer . 1 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dgenerally , wha t I do , 2 0 Counsel , i s tha t I ge t everybod yo nth e phone , an dI 2 1 as k the mwha t thei r calenda r availabilit yis . 2 2 MR . CAMACHO : Go t it , okay . 2 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I tr yan db e ver ysensitiv e 2 4 t o everyone' s differen t issue s s o tha t w e calenda r a 2 5 trial , it' s a t a tim e an dplac e 'tha t work s fo r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 8•

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1 everybody . 2 MR . CAMACHO: ' Ver ygood . Than k you . I 3 appreciat e that . Tha t give s m e a sens e o f - - s o I' m 4 no t goin g t o b e overl yconcerne dtha t we'r e goin g t o 5 hav e an yongoin g conflict s wit hthis . Th e onl y 6 conflic t I'v e go t i s tha t m ydaughter , m yonl ydaughte r 7 o f m ysi xchildre n- - fiv e boys , on e girl . Oh , m y 8 goodness . She' s gettin g marrie do nMa y29t hi nDover , 9 Massachusetts . An dsh e wen t t o Bosto nCollege , a s he r 1 0 fianc e also . An dsh e i s workin g ou t ther e i nRegi s 1 1 Universit yi nDenver , bu t ther e i s goin g t o b e a 1 2 wedding , an dwe'r e doin g thi s lon g distance . Anove l 1 3 experienc e fo r us . 1 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I ca nassur e you , Counsel , 1 5 tha t i f yo uhav e a family-membe r weddin g t o attend , I 1 6 woul dneve r schedul e a tria l durin g tha t time . 1 7 MR . CAMACHO : Okay . Than k you . 1 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Never . 1 9 MR . CAMACHO : Al l righty . 2 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o unles s ther e i s som e 2 1 kin do f emergin g circumstanc e tha t woul drequir e a n 2 2 expedite dtrial , I jus t can' t se e doin g thos e kind s o f 2 3 things . 24 MR . CAMACHO : Than k yo uver ymuch . 2 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : You'r e ver ywelcome . An d Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 the n- - 2 MR . CAMACHO : Okay . Ther e i s nothin g els e 3 tha t 1 ca nthin k of , Judge , a t thi s time . I than k yo u 4 fo r givin g m e a perspective . I'v e go t kin do f a 5 ballpar k ide a o f wher e we'r e headin g i nterm s o f wher e 6 th e litigatio ni s goin g an dtim e frame . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : You'r e welcome . An dthe n 8 i nterm s o f you r questio nabou t venue , I notic e tha t 9 ther e i s a disput e regardin g venue . An dI wil l loo k 1 0 forwar dt o hearin g fro mbot hpartie s abou t tha t befor e 1 1 I mak e u p m ymind . 1 2 MR . CAMACHO : Ver ygood . 1 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I t appear s ou r 1 4 busines s i s complet e fo r today . Than k yo uver ymuch , 1 5 Mr . Camacho , fo r you r presenc e today . I t appear s ou r 1 6 busines s i s finalized , a t leas t fo r now . W e ca ng o of f 1 7 th e record , an dI wis hyo ual l - - 1 8 (Whereupon , a t 10:4 0 a.m. , th e hearin g i n 1 9 th e above-entitle dmatte r wa s adjourned. ) 2 0 / / 2 1 / / 2 2 / / 2 3 / / 24 / / 2 5 / / Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n (202 ) 628-488 8

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### Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n (202 ) 628-488 8