1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Proposed Clean Power Plan for Existing 6



### Power Plant 7

8

9

10

11

12



### 9 : 00 a.m. to 8 : 00 p.m. 13



### Tuesday, July 29 , 201 4 14

15


### EPA Region 8 Building 16



### 1595 Wynkoop Street 17



### Room A 18



### Denver, Colorado 80202 19

20

21

22

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### EPA Panel : 1



### SCOTT JACKSON 2



### JENNY NOONAN 3



### DE E ROTHERY 4



### MONICA MORALES 5



### COLIN BOSWELL 6



### DAVID RISLEY 7



### CALLIE VIDETICH 8



### NATE MCMICHAEL 9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### INTRODUCTION

- JENNY NOONAN 10 3


### JOHN KINKAID, Moffat County Commissioner 21 4



### ROBERT EMERY, Denver Resident 24 5



### STANLEY STURGILL, Harlan County, Kentucky 28 6



### MATT JONES, State Senator, District 17, 32 7



### Colorado 8



### JAMES HUGHES 38 9



### CHRIS JANNEN 42 10



### MICHAEL HUTCHESON, Environmental Engineer 44 11


### for Ameren Corporation 12


### DALE COMYFORD, Retired Engineer, Colorado 49 13



### KAREN HADDEN, Executive Director, Sustainable 53 14


### Energy & Economic Development Coalition 15



### KAREY CHRIST

- JANER 57 16



### TOM SMITH, Director of Public Citizens, 63 17



### Texas Office 18



### GREG SCHAEFER, Vice

- President External 68 19



### Affairs, Arch Coal 20



### LINDA KALEY, Sierra Club 72 21


### JENN VERVIER, New Belgium Brewing Company 76 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### ANDREW LA NE 82 3



### ARIEL ESPOSITO 87 4


### JUSTIN WILSON, Western Clean Energy Campaign 91 5



### GRAHAM MCCAHAN, Attorney, Environmental 94 6



### Defense Fund 7


### CINDY LIVERANCE, American Lung Association 100 8



### KATHARINE MCCORMICK, Natural Resources 103 9



### Defense Council 10



### ROGER SINGER, Sierra Club 107 11



### PATRICK O'HERRON, Trauma & Acute Care Surgeon 110 12



### VIRGINIA COTTS 114 13



### BILL CORCORAN, Sierra Club 119 14



### ANN MORGAN, National Wildlife Federation 124 15


### R. J. HARRINGTON, Clean Energy Action 129 16


### JONATHAN DOWNING, Wyoming Mining Association 134 17



### NOAH LO NG, Natural Resources Defense Council 139 18


### THAD KUROWSKI, SolarCity 144 19


### HOWARD GELLER, Southwest Energy Efficiency 148 20


### Project 21



### EDIE CHANG, California Air Resources Board 153 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### BRUCE RAY, Johns Manville 159 3


### MARK FIX, Western Organization of Resource 165 4



### Counc ils 5



### MARSHA MILLER 171 6



### TRAVIS MADSEN, Environment America 173 7


### RON LEHR, Attorney and Former Commission & 179 8



### Chairman of Colorado Public Utilities & 9



### President of Denver Water Board and Water 10



### Commission 11



### ALL ISON FISHER, Public Citizens Energy & 185 12


### Climate Program 13



### ALEX BURKE, Volunteer, Sierra Club 190 14



### MEGAN GILMAN, Holy Cross Energy 194 15



### HUBERT TWO LEGGINS, Crow Tribe of Montana 199 16



### KELLY SLOAN, Associated Governments of 203 17



### Northwest Colorado 18



### MARY PARKER, Moms Know Best & Candidate for 209 19


### Colorado House of Representatives 20



### LUNCH RECESS 21



### INTRODUCTION

- MONICA MORALES 213 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### SUSAN SEEKFORD 221 3



### KYLA MAKI, Montana Environmental Information 226 4



### Center 5



### LANCE WRIGHT , Green Engineer 230 6


### LAURRENT MEILLON, Capitol Solar Energy, LLC 234 7


### MAX TYLER, Transportation & Energy Committee, 239 8



### State of Colorado 9



### CARL SMITH, Sebinar R ail Transportation Union 244 10



### ALEX BLACKMER, Colorado Renewable Energy 249 11


### Society 12


### JOHN LAUER, Wildland Firefighter 253 13


### MATTHEW NYKIEL, Former Wildland Firefighter & 257 14


### University of Colorado Law Student 15



### CINDY LAY 259 16



### JOHN MCALLISTER, Energy Control & Nocterra 264 17



### Company 18



### LILI FRANCKLYN, Former NPR & National 267 19


### Geographic Reporter 20



### ERIC LARSEN, Polar Explorer 272 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### CATHERINE CARRUTHERS , Environmental Tax 275 3



### Reform, West 4



### HAROLD BIDLACK 279 5



### RICK GORDON, Tri

- State Generation & 285 6



### Transmission Association 7


### JOHN GRAVES, Minnkota Power Cooperative 291 8


### ROBERT HOWELL, Retired Physics and Software 295 9


### Engineer 10



### JODI JONES 299 11


### JIM WHITE, Lutheran Advocacy Ministry & 302 12


### Professor at University of Colorado 13



### ROBERT NEMANICH 307 14


### PETER FIEKOWSKY, Citizens Climate Lobby 312 15



### RONNIE CITRON

- FINK, Moms Clean Air Force 318 16


### LYNN GREENE, Lucky Corridor Project 322 17



### JOSH VALENTINE, Volunteer, Clean Energy 326 18



### Action 19


### CLIFF KOTNIK, Resident of Colorado Springs 330 20


### JERRY GINIANOW, Chief Sustainability Officer 335 21



### for Denver 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### LIZ MCINTYRE, Three

- Time Olympic Skier, 340 3


### Olympic Ski Coach, National Ski Hall 4



### of Fame 5



### TROY DEJOODE, Iowa Association of 344 6


### Municipal Utilities 7



### DANIEL HODGES, Co lorado Springs Utilities 348 8



### JOAN SEEMAN 354 9


### STEVE SZABO, Poudre Valley Electric Co

- op 356 10



### KAREN DIKE, Grandmother & Sierra Club 361 11



### KAYLIN RICHARDSON, Two

- Time Olympic Skier 366 12



### and Professional Skie r 13



### LILIA RAMIREZ in Spanish 372 14



### HILDA NUCETE Translation 372 15


### VICKIE SIMMONS, Moapa Band of Paiute 375 16



### Indians 17



### CHRIS VOTOUPAL, Colorado Clean Tech 379 18


### Energy Association 19



### JAIME TRAVIS, Moms Know Best 385 20



### CHRIS EDMONDS 395 21



### BECKY ENGLISH, Sierra Club & CRSW 398 22

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1



### C O N T E N T S (continued) 2



### PAGE 3



### ZACH OWENS, Alliance for Sustainable 404 4



### Colorado 5



### JEFF NEUMAN

- LEE, Pastor, In Faith of 407 6



### Jesus Christ 7


### MATTHEW HAMILTON, Aspen Skiing Company 411 8



### DEANNE BUTTERFIELD, Friends Committee on 416 9


### National Legislation 10



### DEBORAH TAYLOR 421 11



### JASON CROW, Attorney 424 12



### JE NNY GUBRUD 428 13



### JOSH PHILLIPS 429 14



### REBECCA PIERCE 435 15



### K. K. DUVIVIER 436 16



### KYLE WAGNER, Environment Colorado & 441 17



### Enviro nment America 18



### MATTHEW ELSNER, Sierra Club Denver Metro 444 19



### Network 20



### BRYCE CARTER 447 21



### HENRY FOWLER 453 22

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1



### P R O C E E D I N G S 2



### MS. NOONAN : Good morning, everyone. 3


### This is the pre welc ome welcome. I just wanted 4



### to let folks in the audience know that if

-- we 5



### have a few slots. There were cancelations this 6


### morning, so if you would like to speak and have 7


### not registered to do so thus far, please go back 8


### out to the registration table and w e will try 9



### and

-- 10



### FEMALE VOICE: Sorry. 11



### MS. NOONAN : If you have not yet 12


### registered to speak, we have a few extra slots 13


### this morning. There were some cancelations. So 14


### I would encourage anyone who would like to speak 15



### and does not already have a slot to please go 16


### back out to the registration table and we can 17



### accommodate you. So please feel free to do that. 18



### Thank you. 19



### (Pause.) 20


### MR. MCGRATH: Good morning. Oh, boy, 21


### that really does work. How's everybody this 22

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### morning? 1



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Fine. 2



### MR. MCGRATH: Good. Well, my

-- my name 3


### is Shawn McGrath. I'm the Regional Administrator 4


### here for EPA Region 8, and I want to welcome 5


### ya'll this morning. And I thank you for

-- for 6


### coming in. 7



### This

-- this, of course is a public 8


### hearing on the Clean Power P lan Proposal. 9


### Last fall before we put in the paper on 10


### our Clean Power Plan Proposal we benefited from 11


### unimpressive into outreach. We held 11 public 12


### hearings, sessions nationwide, including here in 13



### Denver. We heard from thousands of people 14



### through phon e calls, e

- mails, meetings, and more. 15


### What we heard helped shaped the guiding 16


### principles of our proposal. We heard that 17


### flexibility is key. So we maximize choices the 18


### states can make for themselves in the proposal. 19


### We heard the states could cut polluti on 20


### cost effectively by looking at the energy systems 21


### as a whole. So we built that into the proposal. 22

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### We heard that the power sector is interconnected 1


### and not bound by state lines. So we allow states 2


### to work together or go it alone. Whatever works 3



### best for the state is

-- is how we structure this 4


### in the proposal. 5


### The public comment period is incredibly 6



### valuable to us. And since June the 2nd when 7


### Administrator McCarthy proposed the Clean Power 8


### Plan, we've been raising focus on our second 9



### phase of engage ment. We've met with 60 different 10


### groups in just the first 25 business days after 11


### our proposal, and we received more than 300,000 12



### comments so far and expect many, many more over 13


### the coming month, days, and weeks. We want no 14


### stone unturned and no good ide a off the table. 15


### And that's why we're so excited to kick off 16


### public hearings across the country. 17


### This week we're hosting three other 18


### public hearing sessions like the one here. And 19


### every one of them has two days worth of hearings 20



### -- in Washington, and At lanta, and Pittsburgh, as 21



### well as here in Denver. 22

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### We expect great feedback at these 1


### sessions. They're a critical opportunity for 2


### people to speak to their government directly. 3



### But let me also make clear that any comment that 4


### we receive by October the 16t h will be equally 5



### accepted and analyzed. 6


### There are no special comments or special 7


### groups. We look at everything carefully, and EPA 8


### does the work to shape that into a rule that we 9



### can all be proud of. 10


### We know the purpose of this rule couldn't 11



### be more im portant, and that's why we're putting 12


### so much importance on the process and on the 13


### comments we are getting and are going to help us 14


### get this rule right. 15


### And one thing that I wanted to say before 16


### I turn this over to the meeting chair here is one 17


### thing that is just incredibly important to our 18


### system of government is value and the diversity 19


### of opinions. And I expect here today that we 20


### really do have a wide breadth of opinions about 21


### this proposed rule. And EPA very much wants to 22

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### hear from all those perspecti ves. 1


### And what I would ask all of you is even 2


### if you don't agree with a speaker, that you 3


### respect their right to exp ress how they view it, 4



### so

-- so, please, please help us in letting 5


### everybody have a chance to provide us their 6


### promise and input into this rule. 7


### So, again, thank you all for coming this 8


### morning, today, and being a part of this process. 9


### And let me turn this over to Jenny. 10



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Thank you so 11



### much. Can everyone hear me? 12



### (No response.) 13


### Good morning. My name is Jenny Noon an, 14


### and I'm one of the Chairs of today's public 15


### hearing. Thank you so much for coming today. 16


### Joining me on the panel are Scott Jackson 17


### and Dee Rothery. And our court reporter is Alex. 18


### We are here today to listen to your 19



### comments on two proposed rules t o reduce carbon 20


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 21



### of these proposed rules on June 2nd, 2014. 22

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### Power plants are the largest source of 1


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 2



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 3



### emissions. 4



### Th e first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 5


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 6


### proposal consists of two main parts: State 7


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 8


### power plants and guidelines to help states 9


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 10


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 11


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 12


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 13


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 14


### their goals by 2030. 15


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 16



### ad dress carbon dioxide emissions from modified 17


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 18


### set emission limits for two groups of power 19


### plants: those that make a physical or 20


### operational change that increased the plant's 21


### maximum achievable hourly rate of emissions and 22

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### those that replace components to such an extent 1



### that the new components exceed 50 percent of the 2


### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 3


### facility. 4


### If you would like more details on either 5



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 6



### av ailable near the registration desk. 7


### As Shawn mentioned, today's hearing is 8


### one of four public hearings across the country 9


### this week on the two proposed rules. We have had 10


### tremendous interest in each of these hearings. 11


### And, again, I'd like to thank you f or taking the 12


### time out of your day to join us and share your 13



### comments. 14


### We have a lot of people signed up to 15



### speak today, and we want to hear from all of 16


### them. So before we get started, I'd like to go 17


### through a few housekeeping details and ground 18



### rules th at will help to maintain today's hearing 19



### run smoothly. 20


### First, make sure that you have registered 21



### -- you have checked in at the registration desk. 22

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### Even if you're not planning to speak today and if 1


### you signed up to speak online or by phone, but 2



### haven't tol d us that you're here, please step out 3


### to the registration desk and let the EPA staff 4


### there know that you have arrived. 5


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 6


### given a room letter when you checked in

-- Room A 7



### or Room B. This is Room A. Are you in the ri ght 8


### room? If not, this is a good time to switch. 9


### If you are not speaking this morning and 10


### the room is getting crowded, we have two 11


### additional rooms set up where you can watch the 12


### hearing on video. Our staff at the registration 13


### desk will direct you to on e of those rooms. All 14


### right. 15


### Here is how today's hearing will work: I 16


### will call the speakers up in pairs. When your 17


### room is called, please come to the table in the 18



### front of the room. 19



### When I call on you to speak, please state 20


### your name and spell it for the court reporter. 21



### Your comments will be transcribed and included in 22

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### the record of comments on the proposed rule. 1


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 2


### give comments. We have this light to help you 3


### know how much time you have left to speak. The 4


### ligh t turns from green to yellow. That means you 5


### have one minute remaining. When it turns red, 6


### that's a signal to wrap up your testimony. The 7


### light will flash red and beep when you have 8


### spoken for five minutes and that it's time to 9



### stop. 10


### When you are finis hed speaking, please 11


### remain at the table until the person next to you 12


### has completed his or her testimony. 13


### We are here to listen to you today; 14


### however, a panel member may ask you a question to 15


### clarify your comments. After each speaker is 16



### done, I will then call up the next pair of 17


### speakers. If you have brought a written copy of 18


### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 19


### the registration desk before you leave today. 20



### Because of the large number of people who 21


### have signed up to speak today and to be fai r to 22

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### everyone, we are going to have to strictly 1


### enforce the five minute limit. If you have 2


### additional comments you would like to make, you 3


### can submit them in writing. 4


### Let me assure you that EPA gives as much 5



### consideration to comments we receive in writin g 6


### as we do to comments that we receive at public 7


### hearings like this one. So if you have more you 8


### would like to say, please submit it. Your 9



### comments will be reviewed. 10


### There is still plenty of time to get 11



### written comments in and there are comment cards 12



### av ailable at the registration desk. Comments 13


### must be received by October 16th, 2014. We will 14


### put any written comments submitted today in the 15


### official docket for the proposed rule. 16


### Instructions for submitting written 17


### comments in other ways are available at the 18



### materials table

-- again, near the registration 19



### desk. 20


### We're scheduled to go tonight until 8:00 21



### p.m. We'll take short breaks throughout the day 22

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### as needed. If you have any questions during the 1


### day, please see staff at the registration desk, 2



### and someo ne will try to help you out. 3



### To echo what Shawn has said earlier, I 4



### want to ask each of you to please be respectful 5



### of everyone who speaks today. We have people 6


### with a wide variety of views in the audience, and 7



### we want to hear from all of you. So, we c an do 8


### that, and we ask if everyone listens quietly. 9


### Even applause can slow things down, and we want 10


### to hear from everyone who signed up to speak. 11



### To conclude, good manners and good 12



### democracy

-- in the spirit of good manners and 13



### good democracy, we ask tha t everyone is 14


### respectful. We are here to listen to each other, 15


### even those we disagree with. 16


### Finally, a good housekeeping note: 17



### Please turn off your cell phones. 18


### Thank you again for taking the time to 19



### share your comments on EPA's proposed rule, and 20



### let' s get started. 21


### The first two speakers today

-- I would 22

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### like to call up the Honorable John Kinkaid and 1



### Robert Emery. And the next two speakers on deck 2


### Stanley Sturgill and Matt Jones. 3


### Mr. Kinkaid, would you like to start? 4



### MR. KINKAID: Yes, thank you. 5



### Is my speaker on? 6



### (No response.) 7



### How about now? John Kinkaid, Moffat 8


### County Commissioner. It indeed is spelled 9



### K

- I

- N

- K

- A

- I

- D

-- K. 10


### Good morning. I'm here today before you 11


### on behalf of my constituents in Moffat County, 12



### Colorado, and the residents o f all of Northwest 13


### Colorado who cannot be here this morning to 14


### testify. 15


### If they could be here in person this 16


### morning, they would tell you that the 17


### environmental extremist war on coal is really a 18


### war on prosperity both for Moffat County and the 19



### entire nati on. Western Colorado has never 20


### recovered from the Great Recession. Energy is 21


### the life blood of our economy. 22

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### Just in Moffat County our coal

- fired 1


### power plant is responsible for $428 million per 2


### year in direct and indirect impact to our area. 3


### Maybe in Was hington, D.C., that's not very much 4


### money, but here, in the heartland of America, it 5



### is. 6


### Coal means that kids can go to school and 7


### get an education. Coal means that families can 8



### buy homes and put food on the table. Our coal 9


### mines and power plants are th e largest taxpayers 10



### in both Moffat and R out t Counties. Coal and 11


### abundant, reliable, affordable electricity lift 12


### people out of poverty. That is true worldwide, 13



### and it is true here in Colorado. 14



### This isn't some abstract bureaucratic 15


### exercise to the people of Northwest Colorado. To 16


### us this is personal. The color that I wear today 17


### is blue. It represents my neighbors, friends, 18


### and the hardworking people of Northwest Colorado 19


### who are striving for a better life and a better 20


### future for their children and grand children. My 21


### color represents my constituents who stay up all 22

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### night, work weekends and holidays so that others 1


### can use their computers and smart phones any 2


### time, day or night. 3



### Moffat County deserves better than to be 4


### turned into another Detroit, Michigan . No amount 5


### of job retraining can replace an $85,000 a year 6


### job. Let me be clear. Carbon dioxide is not a 7


### pollutant. Carbon, oxygen, along with hydrogen 8


### are key components of life on this earth. And no 9


### matter how many times extremists say that carbon 10


### dioxide is a pollutant, that doesn't change the 11



### fact that it is not. 12


### Nations like Germany, Australia have 13



### realized that carbon dioxide restrictions are 14


### ridiculous and counterproductive to a strong and 15


### vibrant economy. 16


### If EPA's plan to reduce carbon dioxi de by 17


### 30 percent is implemented, you might as well tell 18


### the whole truth to the American people that they 19


### are being asked to endure a 30 percent further 20


### reduction in their standard of living. Again, 21


### let me be clear: This is a formula for poverty, 22

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### economic slavery. It is not in the DNA of the 1


### American people to live in serfdom. The world 2


### needs a strong America, and a strong America 3


### relies on affordable energy. Thank you. 4



### MR. EMER Y : Hello, my name is Robert 5



### Emer y . And it's E

- M

- E

- R

- Y . Thank you for 6



### all owing me to comment on the carbon pollution 7


### standards for existing power plants. 8



### I moved to Denver, Colorado, from Denver, 9


### North Carolina, a year ago. The money and power 10


### of fossil fuel related companies was evident in 11


### North Carolina. And my move was , i n part, 12


### related to air pollution's negative effect on the 13


### health of my wife and me . We lived near a coal

14


### fired power plant and were affected by coal plant 15


### air pollution from a nearby plant as well as 16


### plants west of us that delivered their air 17


### pollution th rough eastward moving weather air 18



### masses. 19



### However, I can say that I moved away from 20


### the fossil fuel industry, money, and influence; 21



### though I am glad I moved before coal ash was 22

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### dumped into my drinking water. 1


### I'm extremely disappointed in the fossil 2



### fue l industry position that anthropogenic or 3


### human caused global warning

-- and that's AGW

-- 4


### is unproven or a hoax. There is no scientific 5


### evidence to support a natural cause

-- non AGW, 6



### that is

-- of the accelerated clima te change we 7


### are experiencing. 8



### The re are reams of studies, and about 98 9


### percent of climate scientists validating that AGW 10



### is real . It is obvious that fossil fuel industry 11


### is only interested in making money on oil, gas, 12



### and coal, and are not interested in the 13


### devastating impact it's beginn ing to have on our 14



### planet and ourselves. 15



### Remember DDT, tobacco, and asbestos? I 16



### do not know why all the money they have that they 17



### haven't put research and development into 18


### renewable technologies and been the leaders of 19


### the change taking us to new technol ogies and a 20


### possible continuance of the human race . Read 21



### S ixth E xtinction. 22

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### The impacts of this warming are many and 1



### various, but an obvious one is the increase in 2



### the number of climate

- related loss events. 3


### I put a chart in my comments produced by 4



### Munic h R e , a worldwide insurance risk resource. 5



### It's easy to see from the chart that the trend of 6



### weather incidents which I believe is the result 7



### of AGW

-- these climate

- related events have cost 8


### the State of Colorado over $600 million in 9



### federal disaster aid i n 2011 and 2012. 10


### The chart basically shows the number of 11



### weather

- related incidents which insurance 12


### companies reference was around 300 in 1980. 13


### That's gone up as an almost straight line, linear 14


### straight line, up to 2013 where we now have 15


### approximately 8 00 events per year. 16


### Coal burning for power is the worst 17



### offender. I know that there are people that have 18


### no other living than to mine the coal, a filthy, 19


### dangerous job that doesn't pay much, but they 20



### need to adapt. There should be a program to move 21



### them to other job opportunities, though I can see 22

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### the coal companies do not have an incentive to 1



### help here. 2



### I think we all have to feel a little 3


### embarrassed that Germany leads in photovoltaic 4


### solar energy production with projections that 5



### China will beat Ger many within the decade. 6


### Where is the U.S. leadership in renewable 7


### energy production? Why aren't we leading in this 8


### technology arena? We have the expertise, but if 9



### we don't use it, we will lose it. 10


### Even stopping the CO2 emissions now will 11



### not change the fact that we have added 12


### significant amounts of greenhouse gases to the 13


### atmosphere and will continue to experience the 14


### negative impacts of this. 15


### I applaud the EPA's carbon pollution 16



### standards and wholeheartedly support them and 17


### hope others will see the fo lly of continuing to 18


### add carbon to the atmosphere. This is a first 19



### step. Thank you. 20



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Thank you both 21



### very much. 22

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### MR. MCGRATH: Thank you. 1


### MS. NOONAN: Up next Stanley Sturgill. 2


### (Turned on microphone.) 3



### MS. NOONAN: Up next, may I please have 4


### Stanley Sturgill and Matt Jones? And on deck we 5


### have William Canford and James Hughes. 6


### And if Mr. Canford and Mr. Hughes would 7



### like to sit in the chairs in the back behind the 8


### speakers' table, that would be fine. 9


### MR. STURGILL: My name is (clearing 10



### throat)

-- excuse me. My name is Stanley 11


### Sturgill. 12


### MS. NOONAN: I'm sorry, Mr. Sturgill. 13



### One second, let me

-- 14



### MR. STURGILL: Okay. 15



### MS. NOON:

-- is Matt Jones here? Okay. 16


### Great. Thanks. We'll wait till you're both 17



### seated. 18



### (Pause.) Mr . Sturgill, please begin. 19



### MR. STURGILL: My name is S tanley 20


### Sturgill, and I live in s outheastern Kentucky in 21


### Harlan County at the foot of the highest peak in 22

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### Kentucky. I had a lot I wanted to say, but after 1


### I get here I see we have five minutes, so I'll 2


### have to submit a lot of mine by the October 16th 3



### deadline. 4


### But I'm 69 years old. I'm a retired coal 5


### miner with 41 years of service to the coal

- mining 6


### industry. I would like to say that, first off, 7



### the comment of the EPA rules which was made this 8


### morning by the gentleman says each

-- the rules 9



### were made to

-- to assist the states, each 10


### individual state. I take notice of that. It may 11


### be for each individual state, but that evidently 12



### is not for the citizens. I'm here because of the 13



### health of our citizens of Kentucky. 14


### Where I live in southeastern Kentucky, I 15


### live on the very far right side end of it, next 16


### to the Virginia border. Actually, it's just 17



### seven miles. I'm in the last town in 18



### southeastern Kentucky more or less. 19


### Within that area of Kentucky, all across 20



### the state, there's 21 locations where these 21


### electrical power plants house 56

-- 56 coal

- fired 22

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### burning plants. Now all this pollution includes 1


### CO2, SO2, NOx, and mercury. This all comes 2



### across the State of Kentucky and the last place 3


### that it drops is right on me. 4



### I have black lung. I have COPD. I have 5


### other respiratory ailments. And, you know, this 6


### really hurts me. It hurts my children. It hurts 7


### all my family, my grandchildren, and my great 8


### grandchildren. 9


### And I'd like to give you just a litt le 10


### bit of insight from these 21 plants that house 11


### these 56 coal burners. This is not last year, 12


### but a previous year. For one year it contributed 13



### to 779 deaths, 1,252 heart attacks, 12,638 asthma 14


### attacks, 562 hospital emissions

-- and part of 15



### that was min e because I've had to go in the 16


### hospital several times because of it

-- 468 17



### chronic bronchitis attacks. 18


### I just want to say this new proposed rule 19



### -- and tell the EPA

-- and I'm just going to say 20



### it like it is . EPA. This room is just a mere 21



### lean in the r ight direction, but it's just not 22

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### going to work for us. 1


### EPA. Then you turn right around

-- like 2


### what I was talking about a while ago and give the 3


### very plants in the state where I live additional 4


### breaks. And this is probably because of politics 5



### because o f our state Senator

-- it has a lot to 6



### do with it

-- Mitch McConnell. 7


### But what I'm saying is to the EPA this 8



### has got to stop. The EPA

-- take a second. Just 9


### think of your name. Think of the millions of the 10


### Americans you

-- that you were created to help in 11


### the first place. EPA. Think of all the many 12



### other types of energy that could and should be 13


### used. And we're just

-- right now we're

-- we're 14


### spinning our wheels. We're not trying to do 15


### anything with this. 16


### EPA, you have a significantly

-- you have 17



### s ignificantly under estimated the potential for 18


### this energy efficiency. EPA, you have 19


### dangerously under estimated the climate and 20


### health issues from switching like from coal even 21


### to gas. EPA, it's time to listen up. The new 22

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### rule should do more to support a just economic 1



### transition from coal workers and communities. 2


### EPA, your targets for reducing carbon 3


### dioxide pollution by 2030 are way too low and do 4


### not do enough to reduce our risk from climate 5



### change. 6


### EPA, most importantly, the very reason 7



### I'm here today

-- the reason I flew from Kentucky 8



### to Denver

-- the rule does not near enough

-- 9



### does not do near enough to protect the health of 10



### the front line communities, the ones it affected 11


### just like myself, and by the consequences of this 12


### pollution. 13


### We're dyi ng

-- literally dying for you to 14



### help us. Thank you. 15


### MR. JONES: Thank you. Is this on? 16



### Thank you. Can you hear me? No? Am I supposed 17



### to hit this? Is that on now? No? 18


### I usually know what I'm doing with this. 19



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's got to tu rn 20



### the other one off there. 21



### MS. NOONAN: Oh, turn the other one off. 22

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### MR. JONES: I'll just use this one. 1



### MS. NOONAN: Okay. 2


### MR. JONES: All right. That works. 3



### My name's Matt Jones. I'm a State 4



### Senator

-- one of 35 in the state

-- representing 5



### Long mo nt, L ou isville, Lafayette, and part of 6



### Erie. 7


### I appreciate you doing this. It must be 8


### mind numbing, having sat on that side of the 9



### table. 10


### Let me tell you three quick stories and 11


### make three quick points. And on the line it's 12



### very

-- basically we have t o be very aggressive 13



### with these rules. That's the bottom line. 14



### About four years ago, almost four years 15



### ago now, I was

-- as a public lands land manager 16


### on the Four Mile fire fighting that fire. You'll 17



### never forget the constant stream of slurry 18



### bombers c oming, running in the tens of millions 19



### of dollars. You never forget a black plume 20


### coming up which you know is a structure because 21



### they burn darker. You'll never forget your 22

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### friend's house burn to the ground while they were 1


### out fighting that fire. That's just Four Mile 2


### Fire four years ago, 169 houses. Thank God only 3



### -- there were no deaths. I'm am amazed by that. 4



### At the time it was the most destructive 5



### of the state

-- this state's fires in terms of 6


### buildings. But just two years later the H igh 7



### Park Fir e up in Lar imer County, 259 structures, 8


### almost 40 million to fight, and one person died. 9


### Then the Waldo Canyon fire. That broke 10



### that record

-- 346 structures, 2 people died. 11


### Then the Black Forest fire a year later 12



### -- 488 houses, 2 people died. 13



### If you have a chance, go look it up. 14


### YouTube video about megafires by 60 Minutes, but 15


### the bottom line is if you think this is just a 16


### Colorado thing, they interviewed the Chief of 17


### Fire Operations in the U.S. talking about how the 18


### fire suppression budget had gone up 10

-- 19



### sevenfold over 10 years. 20



### And Scott Pelley asked the guy, well, you 21


### know a lot of people don't believe in climate 22

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### change; and Mr. Boater said, you won't find them 1


### on the fire line in the American west anymore 2


### because we've had climate change beat into us in 3



### the last 10 or 15 years. We know what we're 4


### dealing with. We're dealing with a period of 5



### climate . I n terms of temperature, humidity, 6



### drought , i t's not like anything we've seen in our 7



### lifetimes. 8


### The other thing is fire season is now 78 9



### days l onger based on scientific research. 10


### They're costing us dearly in terms of suppression 11


### cost, property loss, and people dying. 12


### In my district last September we were hit 13


### by a flood we had never seen the likes of before. 14


### 28,000 dwellings were damaged and al most 2,000 15



### homes were destroyed. The current assessment of 16


### total flood damage is about 3.36 billion. 17


### My county's going for a sales tax 18


### increase to pay for the damage. That's our 19



### future. 20


### More importantly, our infrastructures 21


### stink. There's some good re search been done at 22

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### CU by Dr. Paul Janowski , and this comes from the 1


### Daily Camera. It will change

-- what constitutes 2


### normal weather in various regions. Higher 3


### temperatures for more sustained periods of time, 4


### higher or lower average humidity and rainfall 5


### that will tax buildings, roads, bridges that were 6



### built for one set of conditions and now have to 7



### function for another. 8


### He started doing this work up in Alaska 9


### where they found that in 34 years roads up there 10


### would last 18 months because of the changing 11


### conditions. He says road s urfaces are weaker in 12



### heat. Asphalt gets softer as trucks and cars 13



### pass; you get a lo t more potholes, more cracking 14



### -- would be a one

- time event but a constant 15


### thing

. T hat's the part we don't talk about, but 16



### that's the part tha t's going to have a huge 17


### economic impact. 18


### So in summary, we face a huge problem. 19


### The 30 percent reduction is low compared to the 20


### challenges that disasters constantly face and the 21



### deaths. It's far more effective to do this now 22

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### than later. You can pay me now or you can pay me 1


### later on this thing, especially low

- cost energy 2


### efficiency and wind and solar costs are dropping. 3



### True

-- Colorado's done a good job with 4


### this, but giving credit for what we've done is 5


### not going to fix the problem, and there will be 6



### more mandates in the future, no doubt. 7



### So EPA, stay strong. Most regular people 8


### know we have a huge problem. Efficiency and wind 9


### are cheaper. Solar would be competitive. And it 10


### is far cheaper to act strongly now, and I ask you 11



### to do that. 12



### MS. NOONAN : Thank you very much. Thank 13


### you very much. Mr. James Hughes and Mr. William 14


### Canford [phonetic]? 15


### And we're going to just take a second and 16


### make sure the microphones are

-- are working as 17



### well as they can. Maybe you could turn that one 18



### off and try the other one? Try that. 19


### (Microphone testing.) 20



### MS. NOONAN: And are you Mr. Canford or 21



### Mr. Hughes? 22

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### MR. HUGHES: Mr. Hughes. 1


### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Hughes. Is Mr. William 2



### Canford in the room? 3



### (No response.) 4


### MS. NOONAN: Okay. And I'd like to call 5


### up Michael Hutcheson . Michael Hutcheson . Okay. 6


### Chris Jannen. Okay. Chris Jannen. 7



### Okay. 8


### Are you Chris? 9



### MR. JANNEN: I'm Chris. 10



### MS. NOONAN: You're Chris Jannen. 11


### I'm sorry. My apologies. 12



### MR. JANNEN: Where do I sit? 13


### MS. NOONAN: Right up there. 14



### And so, each of you will get five minutes 15


### in case you didn't hear this, and we ask that 16


### both people stay seated at the table until both 17



### speakers are completed. 18


### Mr. Hughes, would you like to start? 19


### MR. HUGHES: Yes. My name is James 20



### Hughes. 21



### MS. NOONAN: And wou ld you spell your 22

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### name, too? 1



### MR. HUGHES: J

- A

- M

- E

- S, H

- U

- G

- H

- E

- S. 2



### We went to the Kyoto Accords. We were 3



### the bully in the room, and we basically

-- what 4


### we said is it's our ball and we're going to walk 5


### away from this and not do anything. 6



### You look at the EPA right now. Their

-- 7


### their budget was roughly $9 billion. What did we 8



### return to the extractive industries, the oils 9


### industry? Twenty

- one billion. The EPA is a 10


### mouse trying to put out the fire. 11


### From the standpoint of what's going on 12


### right now we ha ve

-- you look at Kentucky. 13


### They've had mountaintop cutting off. What do 14


### they do? They take all the spoils, heavy metals, 15


### push them over the side and they're saying, well, 16


### we've created flat areas here for building 17


### construction, putting in houses and wh at have 18



### you. 19


### It goes back to the simple fact that the 20


### EPA is a mouse that's trying to roar. They do 21



### not have the money. They do not have the 22

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### pressure in Washington besides all the lobbyists 1


### that are sitting back before the coal industry, 2


### extracting indu stries. It comes down to the 3


### simple fact that for those who say there's no 4


### global warming, we used to have one Class 5 storm 5


### a generation. Now we have a Class 5 storm around 6



### the world once a month. 7



### If we do not change

-- people say carbon 8


### dioxide is goo d for us. We're cutting down 9



### millions of acres of trees in the rain forest. 10


### And what does this do? The carbon cycle is very 11


### simple. You

-- carbon dioxide turns

-- turns 12


### into oxygen by the trees and all the forests and 13



### what have you. 14



### What it comes down to now is the great 15


### commentary about volcanoes is the fact that they 16


### put millions of tons of carbon dioxide in the 17


### air. This is not true. When you put carbon 18



### dioxide in the air

-- as you looked at Mount 19



### S aint Helen's, you had massive rain storms. You 20



### c ombine carbon dioxide and water, and what does 21


### it get? It gets carbolic acid. So we go back to 22

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### Ve suvius, Tambora, any major volcanic eruption 1



### and look at the amount of carbon dioxide in the 2


### ice in the Arctic. There's negligible increase. 3



### And onward and downward. 4


### For those who don't believe in global 5


### warming, I pat you on the back, and as the old 6


### saying is, you have the right to your opinion, 7


### but you don't have the right to the facts. Thank 8



### you. 9



### MS. NOONAN: Can you

-- 10



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's ver y 11



### difficult to hear back here. It's all muffled. 12


### MS. NOONAN: We're trying to

-- 13



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Move the 14


### microphone further away from you. 15


### MR. JANNEN: Do I start going? 16


### MS. NOONAN: No, no, please wait. 17



### Can you

-- can you stay seated? Thank 18



### you. 19



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Try not to be 20


### quite so close to the mike. When you speak, I'm 21


### getting a lot of feedback from the recording. 22

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### MS. NOONAN: Okay. So, for the room, we 1


### are trying to change out the mikes. And I 2


### apologize for the sound quality at this point. 3


### We are going to ask the speakers also to take a 4


### little step back from the mike so that we can 5


### hear you clearly. That may be a little too far. 6



### MR. JANNEN: Okay. 7



### MS. NOONAN: Maybe you could say test a 8



### little bit and see how that sounds? 9



### MR. JANNEN: Hello. Is that good? 10



### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Okay. Thank you. 11


### We ready to begin? Okay. Please start. 12



### Thank you. 13


### MR. JANNEN: What if I don't want to go 14



### the full five minutes; is that cool? 15



### MS. NOONAN: You're good. 16



### MR. JANNEN: Okay. S o my name's Chris 17


### Jannen. I didn't really prepare anything. Oh. 18



### Hello. 19


### So my name's Chris Jannen. I didn't 20


### really prepare anything, but I'm part of the 21


### solar industry, and I have been for two and a 22

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### half years. It's something I believe in. And 1



### cleaner power is something that I think we must 2



### do. 3


### I have two kids, and I believe just for 4



### the future we need to have cleaner energy. So, I 5



### don't know. Everybody

-- I don't know. Sorry. 6



### I believe that with our homes we need to 7


### be reducing our loads and just focusing on energy 8


### efficiency and then trying to get off of fossil 9



### fuels and coal. We don't need it for

-- I don't 10


### know. We need to focus more on sustainability 11


### and being able to push forward. 12



### And I think I'm done. 13



### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Great. Thank yo u 14



### both so much. 15



### MR. JANNEN: Thank you. 16


### MS. NOONAN: All right. 17



### (Discussion off the record.) 18



### MS. NOONAN: Michael Hutchins

-- Michael 19



### Hutcheson

. 20



### MR. HUTCHESON : Right. 21



### MS. NOONAN: Oh, great. Thank you so 22

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### much. And next up on deck Karen Hadden an d Karey 1



### Christ

- Janer ? 2


### And if you like

-- and if Karen and Karey 3



### would like to sit in the chairs behind the 4



### speakers so you'll be ready for the next round? 5



### Thank you. 6



### Okay. Please remember to spell your 7



### name. And, Mr. Hutch eson , would you like to 8


### begin ? 9



### Turn

-- turn this mike off. Now. Thank 10



### you. 11



### MR. HUTCHESON : Can you hear me? 12



### Hutcheson , H

- U

- T

- C

- H

- E

- S

- O

- N . My name is 13



### Michael Hutcheson, and I’m an environmental 14


### engineer for Amer e n Corporation. Ameren is a 15


### public utility holding company with elec tric and 16


### gas utility operating subsidiaries serving over 17



### three million customers in Missouri and Illinois. 18


### Ameren believes the proposed rule is 19


### legally and technically flawed, will result in 20


### significant cost increases to our customers, our 21



### businesses, cau se job losses, and damage to the 22

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### economy. 1



### Our

-- before I discuss our concerns, I 2


### will describe what Ameren has been doing to 3


### protect the environment and our plans going 4



### forward. 5


### For many years Ameren has been taking 6


### steps to reduce emissions with the go al of 7


### transitioning our fleet to a cleaner, more 8


### diverse portfolio. We have installed scrubbers 9


### and other pollutions control devices, improved 10


### unit efficiency, converted landfill gas to 11


### energy, contracted cooling power, expanded our 12


### nuclear capacity, prom oted and are stalling solar 13


### power, increased hydro capacity and implemented 14


### significant energy efficiency programs in both 15



### Illinois and Missouri. 16


### We have made progress in reducing our 17


### carbon footprint and are executing a 20

- year plan 18


### designed to reduce em issions even further in a 19


### responsible manner. Our plan involves adding 20


### more renewables, combined cycle natural gas, 21


### increasing energy efficiency, retiring coal 22

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### plants at the end of their useful lives and 1


### replacing them with cleaner resources as well as 2



### re taining options for greater levels of nuclear 3


### generation. 4


### Our plan can achieve the 30 percent 5



### reduction from 2005 emission levels over a 6


### slightly longer time frame at a cost to consumers 7


### that we currently estimate at nearly $4 billion 8



### lower than the cost of EPA's proposed rule for 9


### ramming customers along. 10


### Turning to EPA's proposal Ameren 11



### recommends that EPA define and limit the emission 12


### standards based solely on what is achievable at 13


### existing power plants. 14


### States should then be given the 15


### flexibility to d evelop programs that achieve 16


### equivalent emission reductions. If EPA rejects 17


### this proposal, numerous other changes should be 18


### made, and I will highlight a couple of them now. 19



### First and foremost, EPA should eliminate 20


### the aggressive interim goals that start in 2020. 21


### Failure to make this adjustment will cost Ameren 22

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### customers nearly $2 billion by 2020. We 1


### recommend that you replace interim requirements 2


### with a directive to states to develop non binding 3


### emission reduction milestones that are reasonably 4



### achievab le and reflect the state's view of the 5


### appropriate glide path to the final state 6


### reduction goal. 7


### This single action will greatly reduce 8


### the cost of the rule and will provide greater 9


### flexibility to the states. 10


### We also believe the target complian ce 11



### date sh ould not be set in stone in 2030 . Rather, 12


### states should be given the flexibility to extend 13


### the date in order to allow the orderly transition 14


### of generation fleets. This will help mitigate 15


### the potential for liability concerns and rate 16



### shock which would be particularly harmful to our 17



### fixed and low income customers. 18


### For Ameren the compliance date would be 19


### 2035, yet significant reductions would occur 20


### prior to that time. These changes would save 21


### Ameren customers $4 billion when compared to the 22

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### EPA's proposal and still achieve similar 1



### reductions. Ameren believes the rule will not 2


### properly credit coal plant retirements that are 3


### not replaced with new generation under a rate 4


### based compliance program. 5



### It is assumed that under a rate based 6


### program both the emissio ns of CO2 and the 7


### megawatt hours generated from retired coal plants 8



### are removed from the emission rate calculation 9


### when determining compliance. This approach does 10


### not properly reflect the emission reductions 11


### gained because it produces only a minor reducti on 12



### in the overall emission rate. 13


### In order to properly reflect the benefits 14


### of coal plant retirements these units should be 15


### treated as zero emitting units whereby the 16


### associated megawatt hours remain in the 17


### calculation similar to the treatment of energy 18



### ef ficiency

. 19



### In addition Ameren believes the rule 20


### suffers from over aggressive assumptions about 21


### the reduction potential

-- 22

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### (Buzzer sounded.) 1



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Please stay 2



### seated. 3


### Go ahead. Can you turn your mike off, 4



### Mr. Hutchens? 5



### MR. HUTCHESO N: Sorry. 6



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 7


### MR. COMYFORD: Good morning. My name is 8



### Dale Comyford

-- D

- A

- L

- E, C

- O

- M

- Y

- F

- O

- R

- D. I'm a 9


### retired engineer, licensed in Colorado. I'm kind 10


### of horrified to observe that almost no one today 11



### seems to know the difference between carbon and 12


### carbon dioxide. I wish now I had brought a 13


### little piece of carbon so that I can show people 14



### what carbon is. And, of course, carbon dioxide 15


### is a gas. It's also known as CO2 which is the 16



### chemical name. 17


### When I was in grade school, I lea rned 18


### that the entire atmosphere is our greenhouse. 19



### It's a greenhouse gas. The whole atmosphere. 20



### Not very many people know that today, I'm 21


### observing. 22

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### The number one gas in our atmosphere is 1


### water vapor. That's the most important one as 2


### far as regulatin g the temperature on the earth. 3


### To give you an example of how the 4



### atmosphere works, let's take a look at the moon. 5



### The moon has almost no atmosphere. And the 6



### temperature on the moon

-- we know because we've 7



### been there

-- goes from 250 degrees Fahrenheit 8


### and then it drops down to a minus 380 degrees 9



### Fahrenheit in a matter of minutes whenever the 10


### sun drops below the moon's horizon. Almost no 11



### one knows that today. 12


### The atmosphere is made up of water vapor, 13


### humidity. That's what makes up our clouds. How 14



### m uch does a cloud weigh? Just wait and see how 15



### -- what happens whenever the rain and snow falls. 16



### Pretty heavy. That's

-- that's what happens. 17



### That's

-- anyway, the second most 18


### important component of our atmosphere as far as 19



### what

-- volume is nitrogen. Almost nobody knows 20


### that. The third is oxygen. Oxygen is what we 21



### breathe. 22

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### And then we have argon. That's the next 1


### most common part of our atmosphere. And finally, 2


### we get down to carbon dioxide. How much carbon 3


### dioxide is in our atmosphere today and has 4



### forever been? 5



### Four molecules per 10,000 molecules of 6


### other gases in our atmosphere

-- not very much. 7



### Okay? 8



### Now, very few people know today that 9


### plants need carbon dioxide to live. Without 10


### carbon dioxide, there is no photosynthesis. Not 11



### very many p eople know about photosynthesis. 12


### And without photosynthesis

-- oxygen and 13



### -- I mean carbon dioxide in the atmosphere plants 14


### would die. And without the photosynthesis 15



### process the plants use to create oxygen, we would 16


### die. Not many people know that either today. 17



### Okay? 18


### Now, my brother owns some pretty big 19


### greenhouses out in southern New Mexico. And he 20


### raises organic vegetables, flowers, you name it, 21


### sells them commercially. And he, like a lot of 22

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### -- well, most other commercial greenhouse gases 1



### knows tha t he gets stronger plants, faster 2


### growing plants, and healthier plants

-- plants 3


### that can be better taker of disease by increasing 4


### the carbon dioxide contained in his greenhouses. 5



### And he does that. Okay? 6


### Now I'm totally amazed and horrified that 7



### the EPA does not understand that. The bottom 8


### line is the President has promised to increase 9



### the

-- make the cost of energy sky rocket. Okay? 10


### He could just as easily have said I'm 11


### going to make the cost of living sky rocket 12


### because in addition to the cost of ge tting to 13


### work, energy is the number one component of food 14



### cost, bar none. 15



### (Buzzer sounded.) 16


### MR. COMYFORD: Proposed anti CO2, anti 17


### photosynthesis, and anti core and middle class 18



### rules should be

-- should not be included. 19



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 20



### Mr. Hu tchens, I have one question for 21



### you. 22

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### MR. HUTCHESON: Yes. 1


### MS. NOONAN: Did I hear correctly that 2



### Ameren could meet the

-- the

-- or the 2035 3


### deadline would be more amenable to you than the 4



### 2030? 5



### MR. HUTCHESON: Yes, ma'am. 6



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 7



### Okay . Coming up next we have Karen 8



### Hadden and Karey Christ

- J aner. And on deck 9



### Thomas Smith

- Smitty and Greg Schaefer , and Mr. 10



### Smith

- Smitty and Schaefer , if you would like to 11


### join us, sitting behind the speakers, that would 12


### speed things along. 13



### Okay. Ms. Hadd en, would you like to 14



### start? 15


### MS. HADDEN: Good morning. I'm Karen 16



### Hadden. I'm the Executive Director of the SEED 17


### Coalition, Sustainable Energy and Economic 18


### Development Coalition, in Texas. 19


### We felt that this hearing was important 20



### enough that I should co me and be here today. And 21


### I want to first thank you for proposing a rule 22

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### that will help with the transition to cleaner, 1


### less polluting, and more affordable energy, which 2


### is badly needed. 3


### Climate change is real, and the impacts 4


### are being felt already thro ugh intensified 5


### storms, flooding, hurricanes, drought, and 6



### wildfires. We are experiencing them now in 7



### Texas. And we cannot afford the cost of not 8


### taking action in terms of lives and financial 9


### impacts. 10



### The rule should be strengthened to 11


### require the perce ntage of renewable energy to be 12


### increased to 20 percent by 2020 and 30 percent by 13



### 2030. 14



### I'm from Austin. And in Austin our 15


### utility has already hit a peak of 50 percent of 16


### our energy coming from renewables. It can be 17


### done. It is happening. It's now, and it's 18



### affordable. 19



### The recent power purchase that was 20



### contracted was at 4.8 cents a kilowatt hour for 21


### solar, and we think that that's going to come 22

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### through. 1


### We urge you to increase the energy 2


### efficiency increment so that it's two percent per 3



### year add itionally by 2020 and three percent by 4



### 2030. 5



### Now the 2000's were the hottest U.S. 6



### decade on record. For us, in Texas, in 2011 it 7



### was the hottest summer. We had 100 degree 8


### temperatures for 40 days straight. This is a 9



### problem. 10


### Agricultural losses in Tex as and Oklahoma 11


### for that year and 2012 totaled 10 billion. We 12



### can't afford to continue. We have to act. 13


### Flooding is costing lives and property. 14


### We had a flood in Austin that was unexpected

-- 15



### flash flood

-- worst that we've seen since the 16



### 1800's. 17



### The creek, Onion Creek, rose 11 feet in 18



### 15 minutes, and it crested at a record of 41 19



### feet. No one could get out. There were all 20



### kinds of rescues. There were 548 homes and 21


### businesses lost. And to the rest of the city it 22

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### was looking like an ordinary rain wh ile all these 1


### other people were losing their homes and 2


### businesses. Four people were killed, and the 3


### Travis County cost was 28 million. We cannot 4



### afford to not act. 5



### Co

- ops can and should be benefitting from 6


### this rule. Many of the co

- ops are outspoken 7



### op ponents of the rule; although they should be in 8


### favor of it and looking for economic advantage 9


### which they can and should obtain. 10


### Many of the generation and transmission 11



### co

- ops serve many states, and we urge that

-- 12



### that you allow excess renewable genera tion or 13



### credits to be sold to utilities in other states 14


### to help meet the requirements of the rule and 15


### that you create a special subchapter in the rule 16



### to ensure that co

- ops do benefit from the 17


### transition to clean energy. 18



### Co

- ops serve 75 percent of the U.S

. 19


### electric service area, so this is really 20


### important. 21


### Nuclear power incentives should be cut. 22

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### Nuclear power is not clean, and it is not 1


### affordable. In fact, it's throwing billions of 2



### dollars down the drain that we could do so much 3



### more with that could c reate clean energy jobs 4


### that are going to be needed with this transition. 5



### The rule pushes to preserve, expand, and 6


### subsidize nuclear reactors, but there are safety 7


### risks with aging reactors. And they should, 8


### instead, be phased out and replaced by more 9



### af fordable and safer renewable energy. 10


### So, again, we support the rule. We urge 11


### you to strengthen it and move further; and we 12


### want to emphasize over and over again that we 13


### cannot afford the cost of inaction. Thank you. 14


### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Wait. Can you stay? 15


### And can you turn off your mike? Thank you. 16



### MS. CHRIST

- JANER : Hi, my name is Karey 17



### Crist

- Janer. That's K

- A

- R

- E

- Y. Last name is 18



### C

- H

- R

- I

- S

- T

-- hyphen

-- J

- A

- N

- E

- R. 19


### And I first wanted to just give a 20



### tremendous thanks for the draft rules. I thin k 21


### it's a historic moment and a step in the right 22

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### direction. I know you're going to hear over and 1


### over that it's not enough, and I

-- I agree that 2



### it looked modest to me when I first looked at it, 3



### but I still think that we have to look at it in 4



### historical context. And we can be a model, I 5



### think, for other countries. 6


### I'm glad that you have given states 7


### flexibility and freedom in implementing the 8



### rules; however, I feel that you should go further 9


### in guiding states even though I know you don't 10



### regulate the

-- the states in particular

-- about 11


### how to integrate high levels of renewable energy. 12


### We're hearing over and over that

-- that we have 13


### to watch out for, you know, huge, steep increases 14



### in rates. 15


### And I think that the APRI study that came 16


### out just within the last six months or so, the 17


### integrated grid, I think is a very good, you 18


### know, elegant piece of guidance in that area not 19


### only within states but also regionally through 20


### energy and balance markets and opening up 21


### opportunities for trading energy so that w e can 22

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### get to higher levels without so much impact. 1



### Because they do advocacy both here and in 2


### California, I read literally thousands of pages 3


### of filings in CPUC in California. And as I'm 4


### sure you're aware, California is already starting 5


### to face integratio n issues in the shoulder months 6


### for solar. And, you know, the classic Duck 7



### Chart. 8


### And I think that also looking at their 9


### new flexible capacity rules which do include 10


### penalties for utilities that are, you know, load 11


### serving entities that are not meeting the rules, 12


### is all pointing in the direction that we need to 13


### look at demand response, along with energy 14


### efficiency, along with the

-- a right

-- a proper 15


### blend of renewable energy that I also believe is 16


### best done through community energy measures and 17



### local government partnerships to be the most 18



### effective. 19


### My worry is that we will move forward 20


### with these types of rules and then we'll become 21


### like Germany. They were brave to do what they 22

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### did, but as I think many of us know, there's a 1


### lot of problems with Ger many and lack of 2



### coordination. And we don't want pressure over 3


### rates, you know, within

-- you know, this time 4



### frame. We want to keep energy affordable and 5



### have renewable energy for the most people 6


### possible from an environmental justice 7


### standpoint. 8



### I als o believe that utilities

-- although 9


### sometimes I'm branded as a shell, I actually 10


### think that utilities need to make money. I think 11


### they need to keep their credit rating so that 12


### they'll be able to make the capital investments 13



### that they need, for example, f or storage, 14


### including pumped hydro, which I think is an 15


### opportunity in the west that there's, you know, 16


### tremendous possibility that with new technology. 17


### But in order to keep the utilities whole, 18


### they have to be incentivi z ed to create programs 19



### where they m ake a margin or an extra margin on 20


### programs that will integrate high levels of 21


### renewable energy affordably because just a 22

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### haphazard goal or just only solar net metering is 1


### really not going to get us there. And, you know, 2


### you're going to see a constant fig ht, I think, 3


### between the utilities and the public who we all 4



### want more renewable energy . That's what I 5


### literally devote my time

-- full time to. 6



### But we want to do it

-- I personally want 7


### to see it done affordably, and if it doesn't 8



### please everyone, then we just have to be 9


### realistic about how that actually can happen. 10


### And since California is leading the way, 11


### I also wanted to say, you know, in deference to, 12


### you know, my person here that I was living in 13


### California at the time when it got rained on by 14



### the Fu kushima fallout. And it was a very panicky 15


### type of feeling. They were measuring in 16



### Berkeley, you know, the levels. And I don't 17


### think nuclear is ultimately the answer 18


### whatsoever. I feel that very strongly, that it's 19


### very possible to go to a new

-- new c lean energy 20



### economy. 21



### I'm glad that you've seen Colorado as a 22

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### model, but again, I also think we need to go 1


### further, and I think that seeing another example 2


### of XL energy hitting in 2013 over 60 percent wind 3


### energy partially due to their partnering with the 4


### federal agencies here was incredibly inspiring to 5


### see that capability. Of course, that was at four 6


### in the morning, and we have a long way to go, but 7


### I want to just say that

-- that I very much 8


### appreciate

-- and just keep going. And I hope 9


### that you will g o further but also look at 10


### affordable and environmental justice. Thanks. 11


### MS. NOONAN: I actually have a question. 12


### I actually have a question for both of you. 13


### Ms. Hadden, could you submit for the 14


### record any information you have about co

- ops? We 15



### would ap preciate anything you have for the 16



### record. 17


### And if you could submit the famous Duck 18


### Chart and also anything you have about pump 19


### hydro, we would especially appreciate those 20



### comments for the record. 21



### Thank you both very much. 22

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### MS. CHRIST

- JANER: Great. Grea t. Some 1


### additional information is in the packet provided, 2


### and Tom Smitty Smith is on his way to this room. 3



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 4



### MS. CHRIST

- JANER: Oh, he's here. 5


### MR. SMITH: Which of you

-- of us would 6


### you like to go first? 7



### MS. NOONAN: Please. 8



### MR . SMITH: Good morning. My name is Tom 9


### Smith or Smitty. I'm Director of Public 10



### Citizens' Texas office. We're a national non

11


### profit consumer organization with over 300,000 12



### activists and members. 13



### I'm also here today as a Texan, and as a 14



### member of an elec tric co

- op, and as a member of 15


### the task force that is designing Austin Energy's 16


### generating plan for the future. 17


### And I'm here with a simple message. 18



### There are some here

-- that will come here today 19


### and tomorrow that say the cost of these rules is 20



### far too high. And my response to that is the 21


### cost of inaction is far too high. And in order 22

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### to protect our consumers and our pocketbooks we 1



### need to take action now to reduce costs. 2



### You've heard a lot and you'll hear a lot 3


### about a lot of the changes in the clima te and 4


### what they're costing America. The drought is an 5


### extraordinary function. We've seen over $8.7 6



### billion in 2011 in terms of crop losses and crop 7


### failures resulting in higher food costs as a 8



### result of the drought. 9


### We had extraordinary wildfires in Te xas. 10


### And at one point we had over 1,500 wildfires 11


### going at one time. What that meant was the 12


### ability of our farmers and ranchers to get 13


### together and put out those fires taxed all of our 14


### fire departments all across the state and in 15



### other parts of the coun try were being brought in 16


### to help us fight those wildfires. 17


### Our health impacts were significant. 18


### We're seeing changes in the temperature that are 19


### now causing diseases we thought we had eradicated 20


### come back across the border and causing us to 21



### spend money on eradication of pest

- borne diseases 22

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### that were

-- had been eliminated a generation 1



### ago. 2



### The cost of

-- due to ozone and to high 3


### pollen counts the cost of asthma is going up in 4


### our cities and the number of people who are 5


### seeking health care, and the abili ty of people to 6


### even get inhalers is being impacted by the change 7


### in temperature. 8



### As a result, our insurance costs for 9


### health, and fire, and floods are going up. And 10


### more importantly and perhaps significantly the 11



### cost of water has increased across Texas as a 12


### result of the drought and the inability of our

-- 13


### to recharge our reservoirs. 14


### No state has the ability to benefit more 15


### from the changes in climate and the solutions 16


### that you are proposing th an Texas. And we

-- and 17


### one of the reports just recently re leased by the 18



### government talked about the states that are most 19


### likely to benefit from these rules, and Texas was 20


### amongst the top five because of our renewable 21


### potential and our potential to sell natural gas 22

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### to others. And we've got some problems with gas 1


### I'll get into in a minute. 2



### But we now have about 10 percent of our 3


### energy coming from renewable energy on an average 4


### year, and we're likely to get to 20 percent by 5


### 2020 pretty easily and potentially by 2016 if 6



### all the plans on the table are met. 7



### The goo d news is that the number of jobs 8


### in renewable energy are about 120,000 people 9


### employed in that industry now according to the 10


### Governor's office but only 23,000 people in the 11



### coal industries. And we

-- and according to the 12


### University of North Texas. 13



### So we now have almost a four to one ratio 14


### of people working in renewables compared to the 15


### coal industry. And we mine a lot of coal in 16



### Texas and burn a lot of coal. And we also lead 17


### the nation in terms of emissions from our power 18



### plants and all other sources. And for that we 19


### apologize to everybody else in this room and the 20



### rest of the nation. 21



### We can also save a lot of energy and save 22

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### a lot of money. Studies indicate we could save 1



### 23 percent of the peak energy for less than the 2


### cost of generating it. 3



### Now, we 've already cut through energy 4


### efficiency renewable energy programs our global 5


### warming emissions by 9.9 percent since 2005. 6



### Now I spoke to one of the PUC 7


### commissioners about this hearing, and he asked me 8


### to pass on two messages to you. One is we ought 9



### to look at going back to 2005 as our baseline and 10


### getting credit for that. And secondly, that you 11


### just can't change a market based generating 12


### system by passing a rule. That would bust the 13


### basic principle of the market that we have in 14


### Texas and that it may well mean that the cheaper 15


### sources of electricity can't displace gas or 16



### coal. 17



### And in Texas that means that wind is now 18


### displacing gas. And as a result of that the 19



### market would be upset, and we would have a 20


### dysfunctional system, one that you're not wantin g 21


### to have designed. 22

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### Now, we also have a lot of concern about 1


### natural gas, and we think you've underestimated 2


### seriously the amount of methane coming from 3


### leaking gas wells, gas pipes, and so forth. 4



### Now, we have

-- I'm also a member of an 5



### electric co

- op. And one of the messages I would 6


### like to share with you is that we think that 7



### there ought to be a separate chapter or a 8


### subsection of these rules designed for electric 9



### co

- ops to allow them to create their own state 10


### implementation plans similar to what other people 11



### have done to allow them to trade credits 12



### elsewhere. 13


### Thank you very much for your time. 14



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Schaefer ? 15



### MR. SCHAEFER : Nothing happening. 16



### MS. NOONAN: Turn your off. Turn

-- turn 17



### it off? 18



### MR. SMITH: Turn mine off? All r ight. 19



### Let's try that off 20



### MR. SCHAEFER: That works. 21


### My name is Greg, G

- R

- E

- G, Schaefer, 22

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### S

- C

- H

- A

- E

- F

- E

- R. And I'm the Vice

- President of 1



### External Affairs for Arch Coal's western 2


### operations. 3



### I've been in the coal business over 30 4


### years, including my t ime as a consultant 5


### preparing mining and reclamation plans for 6


### various mining operations in the western U.S. 7


### I found my responsibilities to be 8


### challenging and rewarding as well as providing a 9


### salary and benefit package that has allowed me to 10



### raise and edu cate a family. 11


### I'm now nearing retirement as are many of 12


### my friends and colleagues, and I worry about what 13


### will become of the industry that has taken care 14


### of my family for so many years. I am frustrated 15


### by various groups that are trying to shut down 16



### the coal industry and simply eliminate those jobs 17



### with no remorse or conscience. In part I include 18


### the EPA in this statement as their regulatory 19


### pursuits have added greatly to that uncertainty. 20


### As stated earlier, the coal industry pays 21


### a wage that will suppo rt a family. It has often 22

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### been said that taking a job with the coal 1


### industry results in that employee becoming 2


### instant middle class. At our mining operation in 3


### Wyoming hourly rates range from 21.75 per hour to 4


### 32.90 per hour. These jobs would be difficu lt if 5


### not impossible to replace should the coal mining 6


### jobs be eliminated. 7


### The risk of job loss hits pretty close to 8


### home for me. My son is a haul truck driver and 9


### depends on the job to provide for his son, which 10


### includes health insurance. My grandson's 11


### maternal grandmother is a haul truck driver as is 12


### his maternal grandfather. My other grandson's 13


### grandfather is an executive with an equipment 14


### supplier to the coal industry. 15


### EPA is asking a lot from families like 16


### mine who simply want to provide for and r aise 17


### their families, particularly since it's evident 18



### that EPA's 111 D proposal would not do a lot 19


### toward addressing climate change because of the 20



### worldwide emissions of CO2. 21


### One further note is in Wyoming coal 22

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### mining is schools. Bonus revenue from coal 1



### l easing has resulted in the construction of new 2


### schools in every county in the State of Wyoming. 3



### This is a wo nderful legacy for our industry 4



### because included in the school facilities' 5



### website it states the school facilities' 6


### department serves a unique clie ntele of 48 school 7



### districts. These are home to over 90,000 K 8


### through 12 students and 21.8 million square feet 9



### of educational facilities. 10



### Since 2002 the state has allocated 2.7 11



### billion for construction projects, including 12


### appropriations for planning, des ign, 13


### construction, land purchases, and infrastructure. 14


### This past week the State of Wyoming and 15


### through the budgeting process is looking at how 16


### they're going to fund schools into the future and 17


### have actually run its area over that zeros out 18



### revenue from co al leasing. 19


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak, 20


### and I will respectfully ask for EPA to withdraw 21


### the proposal at this time. 22

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### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Thank you both 1



### very much. 2


### Up next we have Linda Kaley and Jennifer 3


### Vervier. Okay. Ms. Kaley, would you like to 4



### start? 5


### MS. KALEY: My name is

-- 6



### MS. NOONAN: Don't get to close. Just 7



### one second. 8



### (Pause.) 9



### MS. NOONAN: I think there is a 10


### microphone that's on somewhere else, and we're 11


### going to get that fixed. So if you don't mind 12


### just waiting a second , we want to be able to hear 13



### you. 14



### (Pause.) 15



### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Ms. Kaley and Ms. 16


### Vervier, my apologies. And would you please? 17



### MS. KALEY: My name is Linda Kaley, 18



### L

- I

- N

- D

- A, K

- A

- L

- E

- Y. And I am from Denver, 19



### Colorado, and a member of the Sierra Club. 20


### I want to thank you for holding this 21


### listening session on the Clean Power Plan to cut 22

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### carbon, carbon dioxide pollution from fossil fuel 1


### burning plants. 2



### Planet e arth is becoming unbalanced and 3


### unhealthy by the burning of fossil fuels which 4


### spews carbon dio xide into the atmosphere, 5


### lingering there for hundreds of years or more. 6


### During nature's global cycle

-- carbon 7



### cycle, the trees and plants store carbon and then 8


### release it when they die. And the oceans absorb 9



### carbon and dissolve carbon back into the 10



### atm osphere thus creating a balance cycle. 11


### The fossil fuel power plants spew 40 12


### gigatons of carbon into the atmosphere without 13


### any carbon capture, creating an unbalanced 14


### atmosphere. The fossil fuel power plants are the 15


### largest source of carbon pollution in t he United 16



### States. 17


### Humans are increasing the concentration 18


### of carbon dioxide and methane in the atmosphere 19


### driving climate change. The carbon in the 20


### earth's atmosphere is now at an unprecedented 21


### level of 400 parts per million and has been for 22

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### the last thr ee months. And climate scientists 1


### are worried that this is going to be a landmark, 2



### and it will become the norm. 3


### The anthropogenic carbon pollution is 4


### driving the climate to become hotter and wetter 5


### causing frequent extreme weather events

-- 6


### droughts, fir es, floods, landslides. All of 7


### Colorado has experience in the past several 8



### years. 9


### And the melting of the arctic sea ice, 10


### glaciers, permafrost, and changes in ecosystems, 11


### habitats, and species, and of course, sinkholes, 12



### hurricanes, and tornados are becomi ng worse and 13



### more frequent. 14


### The carbon pollution from power plants 15


### which contributes to climate change creates a 16


### public health issue for the people of the United 17



### States. 18


### Heat causes many health issues in the 19



### human body, and they can only adapt to so much 20


### heat before succumbing to dehydration, heat 21



### strokes, heart attacks. 22

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### Worsening smog make asthma and lung 1


### disease worse. Extreme flooding, fires, 2


### wildfires, and lack of water availability and

-- 3



### and food sources lead to homelessness, 4


### starvation, migration , conflicts, and a crumbling 5


### infrastructure. And the increasing range of 6


### mosquitoes and ticks which can spread diseases 7


### like West Nile and Lyme Disease. 8



### The most vulnerable citizens are the 9


### children, the older adults, and the people living 10



### with heart and lung disease, and the people 11


### living in poverty. 12



### I support the clean power plan to reduce 13


### carbon pollution from power plants and the state 14


### programs that will encourage energy efficiency 15


### and renewable energy such as wind, solar, 16



### geothermal. 17



### The clean powe r plan will lead to climate 18



### and health benefits estimated at 55 billion to 93 19


### billion in 2030, avoiding 2,700 to 6,600 20


### premature deaths and 140 to 150 asthma attacks in 21



### children. 22

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### The clean power plan is the first step 1


### forward to mitigate human impact on o ur planet by 2


### cutting the carbon dioxide pollution from power 3



### plants by 30 percent from the 2005 levels and 4


### creating more jobs and careers in the renewable 5


### energy sector and infrastructure. 6


### I will close by saying a healthy and 7


### balanced planet earth will su pport life on earth. 8



### Thank you. 9


### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Ms. Vervier? 10


### Okay. Turn this one off. 11



### MS. VERVIER: Hi, my name is Jenn 12



### Vervier, J

- E

- N

- N, V

- E

- R

- V

- I

- E

- R. And I'm the 13


### Director of Strategy and Sustainability at New 14


### Belgium Brewing Company in Fo rt Collins, 15



### Colorado. 16


### Thank you for this opportunity to provide 17


### comments in support of robust carbon pollutions 18


### standards for existing power plants. 19


### New Belgium has grown from our founder's 20



### basement in 1991 to a million barrel brewer in 21



### Fort Collins, Col orado. And we're currently a 22

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### half a million barrel brewery in Asheville, North 1



### Carolina. 2


### While we've been growing our capacity, we 3


### have also invested in renewable energy and energy 4


### efficiency. We harvest the methane produced by 5



### our on

- site process water treatment plant to 6


### generate over 15 percent of our electricity. And 7


### by the end of the year we'll have 300 kilowatts 8



### of solar PV on our roofs. 9



### We tax ourselves two cents for every 10


### kilowatt hour of fossil fuel electricity we use 11



### to create a fund earmarked for on

- site renewable 12


### energy and efficiency projects. 13


### We also participated in a multiyear 14


### partnership with the City of Fort Collins and the 15


### Department of Energy to demonstrate distributed 16


### generation, demand response, and peak load 17



### reduction. 18



### Because we are 100 percent employee 19



### owned, these investments reflect the commitment 20


### to environmental stewardship of 562 co owners. 21



### So we applaud the EPA's clean power standards. 22

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### We believe that they will help us maintain an 1


### affordable and reliable energy system, cu t 2


### pollution, and protect public health all the 3


### while promoting U.S. competitiveness in the 4


### coming decades. 5


### Sensible regulations like the EPA clean 6


### power standards are in the best interest of 7


### businesses already working to move us towards 8



### cleaner energy. 9



### I nternal best practices that companies 10


### like ours deploy are really just the beginning 11


### when it comes to our ability to mitigate climate 12



### change. In order to further reduce our 13


### environmental impact, we need a cleaner grid. 14


### At New Belgium we know that good po licy 15



### is essential to our efforts while outdated 16


### policies and a failure of government action holds 17


### us back. Regulation is required to create 18


### appropriate market signals. 19



### The reason that we have greenhouse gas 20


### reduction goals and we support regulation to 21



### re duce carbon pollution is because the risk that 22

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### climate change poses to our business and to the 1



### communities that we sell beer in across the 2


### country is real. We need clean and healthy air 3



### and water to craft world class beers and to be 4



### able to source world c lass agricultural products 5


### like barley and hops. 6



### Increased frequency of severe storms, sea 7


### level rise, and warmer temperatures will affect 8


### all aspects of the supply chain. 9


### In Colorado we've been suffering from 10



### forest fires and floods. We watch in fear as 11


### other states in the west struggle with epic 12



### drought. 13


### At the same time tackling climate change 14


### can be one of America's greatest economic 15


### opportunities. The innovation and ingenuity that 16


### are necessary to meet the challenge will spur 17


### entirely new indust ries, services, and products 18



### to help grow our economy. 19



### For example

-- thanks in part to 20



### Colorado's renewable energy standard

-- we are 21



### home to both the 10th largest solar PV market and 22

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### the 10th largest wind market in the United 1



### states. In Fort Collins wh ere we are 2


### headquartered the city has served as a national 3



### leader in climate action. Fort Collins was the 4


### first city in the state to establish a renewable 5


### portfolio standard, and in 2008 the city 6


### committed to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 7



### 20 percen t below 2005 levels by 2020. 8


### The new EPA standards will support and 9



### strengthen the successes we have had at the local 10


### and state level reducing pollution while growing 11


### jobs and growing our economy. 12


### So we are pleased to see this sensible 13



### action to combat c limate change and diversify our 14


### power supply using free market forces to 15



### determine the best solution for each state. 16


### Making world class beer, being 17


### profitable, and honoring the environment go hand 18



### in hand for us. And our customers tell us that 19



### they appre ciate the steps we take to make sure 20


### our business, our country, and our planet are on 21



### a course that can be sustained for future 22

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### generations. 1


### All sustainable economic development 2


### depends upon the protection of our natural 3


### resources and policies that will d rive us towards 4



### a cleaner energy future. Thanks. 5



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. Up next, 6



### Mr. Andrew Lane and Ms.

-- or Ariel Esposito. 7



### And behind them Justin Wilson and Graham McCahan 8



### would like to sit in the seats behind them

-- be 9



### on deck. 10



### I'd also li ke to make the announcement 11


### that the building is approaching capacity, so if 12


### you are feeling like you want to give up your 13


### seats and allow other people to come in and 14


### watch, we would certainly appreciate that. I 15


### will make this announcement again at 11:00 16


### o'clock. So please just be considering that. 17



### As you've been here for several hours and 18


### there are other people who have driven far and 19



### flown far, and even local folks would like to be 20


### able to participate in this by being able to 21


### observe. So just keep tha t in mind, and I'll 22

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### make the announcement again at 11:00. Thank you. 1



### Mr. Lane? 2


### MR. LANE: So I'll go first. My name is 3


### Andrew Lane. It is the common spelling. Lane is 4


### like a bicycle lane. That's how I get around. 5


### And that is how I have actually

-- still 6


### fit into this uniform. My unit has told me I 7


### cannot wear it to talk to you, so I figured I'll 8


### carry it. You can quite see it's almost my 9



### resume. I've been some places and done some 10


### things. I'm probably not a hippie, nor am I an 11



### extremist. 12



### For s omeone to call

-- they want to call 13


### people who care about this planet an extremist. 14


### The Army and the foreign defense is going green, 15



### I assure you. 16


### Anyone can Google the movie The Burning 17


### Trailer, theburningfilm.com trailer, and you'll 18



### see what I'm talkin g about. So many admirals and 19


### generals, captains and colonels in the Army, 20


### Marine Corps, Navy speaking. This is a six

21


### minute trailer. It's powerful. 22

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### And to that end my Buckeye Armory which 1


### is about 30 miles west of Phoenix is already 91 2



### percent powered by the sun, from the solar panels 3


### on its roof. Soon the Arizona Army National 4


### Guard is going to install more than enough panels 5



### to m ore than supply its electricity and feed the 6


### grid with that sunshine that falls in the valley 7



### in central Arizona. 8



### Today N orth America's largest 9


### photovoltaic array is Davis

- Monthan Air Force 10



### Base in Tucson . They stole that title from 11


### Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, but the Army 12



### is about to steal it from Davis

- Monthan on the 13



### border of Mexico, Fort Huachuca. 14



### The Secretary of the Navy was at ASU

-- 15


### I'm also a grad student at Arizona State 16


### University

-- and the Secretary of the Navy was 17


### there about eight weeks ago. I got to shake his 18



### hand and meet him. 19


### By 2016 the Navy will be 50 percent 20



### renewable fuels, and that includes the Marine 21


### Corps. Everything that burns fuel is a diesel 22

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### engine more or less in the military. And they 1


### will be burning a 50 percent blend of bio diesel 2


### made from algae, canola, or peanut oil, or 3


### something there

-- mustard seeds perhaps

-- and 4



### then perhap s the other 50 percent from petroleum. 5


### Arizona State University is rapidly 6


### powering itself by the sun. It's creeping 7


### towards 40 percent. Anyone who flies into 8


### Phoenix, I would ask you to look down and look 9



### for the vast fields of solar. Those are the 10



### di fferent campuses across the valley that Arizona 11


### State University has. We can power ourselves 12


### from the sunshine. We just have to have 13


### installing. 14


### For anyone who denies climate science, I 15


### don't know where you are. And many ostriches 16


### hold head in the grou nd

-- there is so much 17


### evidence now. And I'm happy to say that Hans 18


### Solo and Indiana Jones are on our side. Simply 19


### watch the first episode of Years of Living 20


### Dangerously on YouTube or Showtime's website. 21


### Look at Richard Alley's Earth, the 22

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### Operator's Man ual, if you still think volcanoes 1


### might have something more to do than fossil 2



### fuels. 3


### Watch the movie Chasing Mice and see if 4



### you can see what's happened to the Yukon 5


### territory of glaciers

-- what the majority is 6


### happening there. 7



### And for one of the coal w orkers who was 8


### just here, I asked him about The Last Mountain, 9



### another retired coal man made a movie about what 10


### has happened in his community because of coal. 11


### Anyone who really likes coal, I would 12


### invite you to live in the shadow of a coal plant, 13



### or a coa l mine, or downstream and see how you 14


### feel in a year or two. And try to raise your 15


### kids there, too, and see how they feel. 16


### Obviously, I was raised on public radio. 17


### Living on Earth broadcast a few months ago how 18


### Norfolk, Virginia, is already experiencing 19


### serious climate change and sea level rise. If 20


### it's a high tide or it rains, they just don't 21



### leave the house. 22

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### Just last weekend the Mayor of Miami, 1


### Florida, was on there. He's a trained biologist. 2


### He knows if we don't change what we're doing, the 3



### lower half of Florida is going to be under water 4


### in about a hundred years or so. He has children 5


### as do I. And I can't imagine looking in my 6


### children's eyes and saying things like that. 7


### I got to speak to the Arizona State House 8


### a few weeks ago on this very to pic about EPA's 9


### regulations of which I might say I applaud as a 10


### first step towards a staircase we need to climb 11


### to get out of this predicament. 12


### The sky is falling said the Speaker of 13


### the House. I pointed out to him RGGI in New 14



### England has already seen a 40 percent reduction 15


### in carbon dioxide emissions while reducing costs 16



### by 8 percent. 17


### And many think that science will save us, 18


### and I think it will, but we have to make it, buy 19


### it, install it, and use it. We've been burning 20



### coal as humans for 3,000 years. The Chinese, 21


### long ago, began. It's time

-- it is time to find 22

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### a better way as Arizona State University says. 1


### I can't imagine looking

-- I have a young 2



### daughter who's seven and a son who's 12; and I 3


### just can't imagine looking in their eyes and 4


### saying the se things. And these small children in 5


### this audience, I feel the same way looking at 6


### them even though I'm not raising them at all. 7


### I believe that nuclear energy is super 8


### fabulous when it's 90 million miles away and no 9


### one can get their hands on it, inclu ding NASA or 10



### Al Qaeda, and none of the fallout. 11


### So I would say to you, the EPA, in 12


### closing to get stronger, stay strong, and again, 13


### great first step. 14



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 15


### MS. ESPOSITO: Can everyone hear me? Hi. 16


### My name is Ariel Esposito . My las t name is 17



### E

- S

- P

- O

- S

- I

- T

- O. 18


### So I wanted to start off thanking you for 19


### having me here. I wanted to talk a little bit 20


### about me first and then get into some more 21


### specifics. I've been an environmentalist since 22

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### before I can remember. When I was five, I told 1


### my mom I wanted to save the world. I didn't know 2


### exactly what needed saving at that point, but I 3


### joined the World Wildlife Foundation and had 4


### plans to go to China and save the pandas

-- my 5


### favorite animal at that point. 6


### I grew up in Colorado and seen th e direct 7


### impact of negligent environmental regulations. 8


### Many here have seen the bright orange streams due 9


### to acid mining from hundred year old mines. 10



### My mother took me to them as part of her 11


### field research. And we can't get away with 12


### negligent climate p ollution. We

-- now we know. 13



### The science is there. I know this because I am 14


### both a scientist and an engineer. You have a 15


### really smart table right here. I'm a graduate 16


### student at the Colorado School of Mines, just a 17


### half an hour away, and working on my Ph.D. 18


### So a lot of the issues put forward in the 19



### document refer to data, and how to generate data, 20



### and how to analyze renewable standards, and how 21


### to make requirements for places where there's 22

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### lack of data. And in my opinion there's no 1



### excuse for lack of data. There's many graduate 2


### students and researchers that would appreciate 3


### the opportunity for funding for research looking 4



### at these issues. 5


### My current project is looking at leakage 6


### associated with natural gas production and 7


### distribution. I'm specifica lly looking 8


### estimating quantifying estimates to the 9


### atmosphere, but I want to say that I'm not being 10


### funded by the federal government to do this 11


### research. They don't have funding that was 12


### available to me. This is a major letdown of the 13



### government to supp ort young people trying to 14



### solve the problem. 15



### I'm only 28. I have 50 years, hopefully, 16



### left to live. And I want to have a better 17


### environment. I'm from Boulder, and last year I 18


### personally witnessed the flooding that happened, 19


### and there's a feeling of he lplessness as the 20


### water comes into your basement, places where I've 21



### been

-- grew up as a child; but we're no longer 22

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### helpless when it comes to climate change. 1


### By putting money into research and 2


### development through national laboratories at 3



### national renewa ble energy lab's previous employer 4


### and through graduate student funding and through 5


### further research funding we can address many of 6


### the specific issues in this regulation that are 7



### brought forth. 8


### One of them that's mentioned multiple 9


### times is the compariso n between a mass source 10


### analysis versus a rate analysis and what period 11


### of time over which to do these analyses, and also 12


### looking at using multi state rules versus local 13


### regulations. And the issue is we don't really 14


### know. I'm looking at, you know, point sources 15



### versus long

- term slow leakage rates and looking 16


### at the impacts of that on the atmosphere, but we 17



### don't know. 18



### And so when you don't know, you should 19



### take, personally, more

-- more money and more 20


### research into answering those questions. And 21



### they ar e answerable questions. 22

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### So, I haven't had a chance to read 1


### through all of the document, but I significantly 2


### support greater funding by the EPA for research 3


### as part of this plan and that every coal plant 4


### profit

-- some of that money should go to 5



### understand ing our impact on the environment by 6


### supporting young people and their endeavors to 7


### study and investigate the challenges of today. 8



### Thank you very much. 9



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much. 10



### Mr. Wilson and Mr. McMann

-- McCahan ? 11


### And on deck Cindy Livera nce and Katharine 12



### McCormick , if you'd like to take seats behind the 13



### speaker's table. 14


### And just a reminder, spell your name, and 15


### also don't get too close to the mike. 16


### MR. WILSON: Certainly. 17



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 18



### MR. WILSON: First and last? 19



### MS. NOONA N: Yes, please. 20


### MR. WILSON: My name is Justin Wilson, 21



### J

- U

- S

- T

- I

- N, W

- I

- L

- S

- O

- N. 22

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### I represent an organization, the Western 1



### Clean Energy Campaign. We are an organization

-- 2


### former utility analysts and experts, non

- p rofit 3


### conservation organizations. 4



### I w ant to thank EPA for holding this 5


### listening session. I want to thank EPA for your 6


### unprecedented efforts in reaching out to the 7


### public to talk about these very important carbon 8


### pollution standards. Thank you very much. 9


### Thank you for coming to Denver. We are 10


### very proud of the work that we have done in 11


### Colorado in what we feel like is leading the way 12


### to reduce carbon pollution proactively and cost 13


### effectively. 14


### Last fall during EPA's listening session 15


### I suggested that EPA should find

-- find a way to 16



### pro pose aggressive yet achievable standards. And 17


### I believe EPA has done just that. You have found 18



### the correct balance, and, therefore, from my 19


### organization's standpoint, the Western Clean 20


### Energy Campaign, you have our full support with 21



### these

-- with the C le an P ower P la n

. 22

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### States such as Colorado who have taken 1


### proactive steps that are cost effective and 2


### forward thinking have positioned ourselves well 3



### -- well not just to comply but to thrive under 4



### the C lean P ower P lan. 5


### Recent analysis shows that just since 6


### 2012 if Colorado continues on its policy path and 7


### continues to buy cost effective resources, 8


### renewable resources, we will have only about a 7 9


### percent reduction that's needed. We are well on 10


### our way, and these standards are achievable for 11



### us. 12


### We certainly encourage other states to be 13


### aggressive and start planning now. With the 14


### proper planning, with good dialog across the 15


### states, again, these standards are achievable. 16


### In addition to the standards being 17


### aggressive, to them being achievable, they are 18



### also c reating a strong and vibrant economy here 19



### in Colorado. 20


### Wind alone supports over 4,000 jobs here 21


### in Colorado, and it's responsible for $4.3 22

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### billion in economic development. 1


### In addition to all of those things, we 2


### have a responsibility to act decisively and 3


### quickly. We believe, here in Colorado, that we 4



### have shown a path for that to happen, and we 5


### thank EPA for considering that in their proposal. 6


### Again, I'd just like to offer our full 7



### support for the C lean P ower P lan. Thank you. 8



### MR. MCCAHAN: Good mornin g. My name is 9



### Graham McCahan, G

- R

- A

- H

- A

- M, last name M

- C

- C

- A

- H

10



### A

- N. I am an attorney with Environmental Defense 11



### Fund, a non

- partisan environmental organization 12



### with more than 750,000 members nationwide. For 13


### over 25 years EDF has worked in Colorado and 14



### a cross the Rocky Mountain west to protect human 15



### health and the environment from harmful air 16


### pollution. 17


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify 18



### today. The proposed C lean P ower P lan is a 19


### crucial step in the President's Climate Action 20


### Plan that will help ad dress the massive 21


### quantities of climate destabilizing pollution 22

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### emitted from U.S. power plants, one of the 1


### largest sources of greenhouse gases in the world. 2



### EDF strongly supports the proposed Clean 3



### Power Plan and urges EPA to strengthen the final 4



### standard s so that reductions are deeper and 5


### achieved more quickly. 6


### The impacts we are seeing now and will 7


### experience in the future have substantial 8



### economic, human health, and social costs. The 9


### Risky Business Report, a recent independent 10



### assessment of the econom ic risks of climate 11


### change in the United States found that climate 12


### change will generate substantial economic costs 13



### due to damage to and loss of coastal 14


### infrastructure and property, extreme heat impacts 15


### on labor productivity, health and energy systems, 16



### and disruption of our agricultural production. 17


### The stakes are high here in Colorado as 18


### hotter temperatures, reduced winter snow pack, 19



### and more frequent droughts are expected to 20



### decrease Colorado River stream flows. These 21


### changes are projected to decrease sur face water 22

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### supplies which will impact the allocation of 1


### water to major uses such as agriculture, drinking 2



### water, and ecosystem flows. 3


### Our treasured Rocky Mountain ecosystems 4


### are especially susceptible to climate change, and 5


### high elevations have already ex perienced 6


### temperature increases at rates three times the 7


### global average. Continued warming threatens 8



### critical wildlife habitats and exacerbates the 9


### impacts of invasive species and pests such as the 10


### mountain pine needle. 11


### Increased warming, drought, and in sect 12


### outbreaks have increased wildfires and impacts to 13



### people and ecosystems throughout the west. 14


### Projected temperature increases will also 15


### increase the threats and cost to public health in 16


### our region's cities. 17


### Fortunately, the solutions we need to 18



### achi eve significant reductions of carbon 19


### pollution from the power sector are readily at 20


### hand. Colorado has a long history of bipartisan 21


### solutions that have provided a strong foundation 22

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### for meeting EPA's proposed standards. 1


### Under Colorado's bipartisan Clean A ir
, 2



### Clean Jobs Act , bipartisan renewable energy 3


### standards, and bipartisan energy efficiency 4


### policies, Xcel E nergy will cut its carbon 5


### emissions by 31 p ercent from 2005 levels by 2020 6


### by investing in renewable power and energy 7


### efficiency, and shifting equal ization away from 8


### high emitting points. 9


### As it has integrat ed increasing 10


### renewables into its generation mix, X cel 's retail 11


### electricity rates have never gone above the 12


### national average. 13


### The shift to cleaner and safer energy 14


### provides public health and oth er benefits for our 15


### communities and families, helping to lift the 16


### brown cloud along the front range, cutting 17


### through the summer smog, and protecting the grand 18


### vistas of Colorado's crown jewel, Rocky Mountain 19



### National Park. 20


### Strong carbon pollution standard s are 21


### consistent with a strong clean energy economy in 22

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### Colorado from Logan County wind turbines 1


### providing revenue and economic security to 2


### farmers to cost savings for Colorado's families 3


### from our leading energy efficiency policies, the 4



### Clean Power Plan wil l encourage investors, 5


### inventers, and entrepreneurs to find new ways to 6


### cut pollution and give industry flexibility to 7


### find the most efficient path to a clean future. 8



### And we know that a transition to clean 9


### energy is not only possible; it's affordable. 10



### So lar and wind resources are cheaper than ever 11



### before. In 2012 rooftop solar panels cost 12


### approximately one percent of what they did 35 13



### years ago. And the cost of solar panels fell by 14



### 60 percent from 2011 to 2013. 15


### This past May Xcel Energy announced that 16



### i t is acquiring renewable energy at prices that 17


### out compete fossil fuels. By contrast, the cost 18


### of inaction are high with a heavy burden of a 19


### changing climate falling on Colorado, there is 20


### strong public support for ensuring that the 21


### single largest source o f dangerous carbon 22

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### pollution in our nation is finally subject to 1


### enforceable limits. With 64 percent of Americans 2


### believing the government should limit greenhouse 3


### gas emissions from existing power plants to 4


### address climate change and improve public health
, 5


### it is long past time we put national limits on 6


### the amount of climate destabilizing carbon 7


### pollution emitted by power plants. 8


### Colorado's experience successfully 9


### reducing carbon pollution through bipartisan 10



### efforts demonstrates that we can transition 11


### quic kly and cost effectively to a clean energy 12


### economy. Indeed, these standards will not only 13


### reduce pollution here at home, but they can help 14


### ensure that America will be prosperous in the 15


### global economy, exporting clean energy solutions 16



### to the rest of the wo rld. 17


### Furthermore, these standards enjoy broad 18


### public support from health and medical 19


### associations, environmental groups of the 20


### community

-- 21



### (Buzzer sounded.) 22

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### -- business later and more. Thank you 1


### again for the opportunity to testify in support 2



### of the c lean power plan. 3



### MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you both. 4


### On deck we have Roger Singer and Patrick 5



### O'H erron . If you would like to join

-- sit 6


### behind the speaker's table, that would be great. 7



### And Ms. Liver a n ce and Ms. McCorm a ck? 8



### MS. LIVERANCE: Hello, I am Cindy 9



### Liverance

-- C

- I

- N

- D

- Y, L

- I

- V

- E

- R

- A

- N

- C

- E. I am 10



### the President, Vice

- President of Programs for the 11


### American Lung Association here in Colorado. And 12


### I appreciate having the opportunity to speak with 13



### you today. 14



### While I am the Vice

- President of 15



### Progra ms, I am also an asthmatic, and I am the 16



### mother of children with asthma. 17



### The ALA issues its Annual State of the 18


### Air Report each spring, and this year's report 19



### showed that warmer temperatures have led to much 20


### worse ozone pollution in cities across the 21



### coun try in 2010 to 2013, including here in 22

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### Denver. 1


### Over 147 million people lived in counties 2



### that suffered too many unhealthy ozone days 3


### during that period. And even though we've made 4


### some strides in cutting air pollution, warmer 5


### temperatures will make it mu ch more likely that 6


### we'll see many years with too many unhealthy 7



### ozone days. 8



### For the millions of Americans who live 9


### with chronic lung diseases such as asthma, 10


### chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and lung cancer, 11


### high ozone can make it very difficult for them t o 12



### breathe. It causes them to cough, wheeze, and 13


### send them to the emergency room and hospitals. 14


### Breathing high ozone can even increase a 15


### risk of dying early. Children growing up where 16


### ozone levels are high may risk having lung 17



### diseases later in life. 18



### We need the Clean Power Plan to protect 19


### public health . Power plant pollution makes 20


### people sick, and it cuts life short. The 21


### American Lung Association urges the EPA to set a 22

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### final plan within the year that provides the 1


### strongest limits on carbon pollutions. Anything 2



### less shortchanges our health. 3


### As a person who lives with asthma but 4



### also likes to exercise outdoors, I have had to 5


### learn to base my exercise outside activities on 6


### the level of air pollution. I don't like 7


### exercising indoors, but I also don't li ke going 8



### to the emergency room because I can't breathe due 9


### to the toxic air pollution. 10


### But having to make the decision to 11


### exercise indoors or outdoors is a simple choice 12


### compared to some of the choices made by when my 13


### daughter and with other children and asthma can't 14


### breathe while they're out on the playground at 15


### school. There is nothing more terrifying than 16


### having your child say I can't breathe, Mommy. 17



### Help me. You feel helpless. 18



### My daughter's grown now. She can make 19



### her own decisions on when to be o utside, but I 20


### want the EPA to adopt the strongest standards in 21



### the Clean Power Plan that will cut carbon 22

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### pollution so other Colorado children will have 1


### brighter, healthier futures ahead of them. 2


### The American Lung Association here in 3



### Colorado hosts a weekl ong summer camp called 4


### Champ Camp specifically for children with asthma. 5



### Champ Camp took place last week, and I asked all 6


### 85 of the children if the air they breathe was 7


### important; and they all said yes. 8



### One comment from a child was why are 9


### adults keeping our air dirty. I had no answer. 10


### Please help me provide that answer to them. 11


### In closing I submit to you a couple 12


### photos of the children that were at the camp and 13



### the volunteers who wanted you to know that clean 14


### air is important to them. Thank you very much. 15


### MS. MCCORMICK: Hi. Hi, my name is 16



### Katharine McCormick. That's K

- A

- T

- H

- A

- R

- I

- N

- E, 17



### M

- C

- C

- O

- R

- M

- I

- C

- K. I'm a Midwest Advocate with 18



### the Natural Resources Defense Council. 19


### There are a lot of numbers floating 20


### around about the cost of this proposal, b ut to 21


### focus only on hypothetical cost is to do a 22

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### disservice to those states and utilities that 1


### took action early on to change the way they 2


### produce and consumed electricity with real 3



### benefits. 4


### My home state of Iowa provides a clear 5


### example of the benefits that clean energy 6


### provides to the state's economy let alone to the 7



### health of its citizens. 8



### The Clean Power Plan offers an 9


### opportunity for Iowa to continue to grow its 10


### booming wind sector and implement solar and 11


### energy efficiency to a greater extent. In f act, 12


### this proposal may have been too generous to Iowa. 13


### Iowa's already on the path to meet its emissions 14


### reduction target set by EPA maybe even before the 15



### standard is in effect. 16


### This is due in large part to the progress 17


### Iowa has made in recent years with a 22 percent 18


### decrease in the emission rate since 1990, mostly 19



### since 2005. 20


### Iowa is actually the nation's leader in 21


### wind generation with 27 percent of the state's 22

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### electricity now coming from wind turbines. 1


### MidAmerican Energy, one of the two investor

- owned 2



### utilities in the state, will invest an additional 3


### $1.9 billion by 2016, adding 1,050 megawatts of 4


### wind to the state and increasing wind share in 5


### that utility's energy portfolio to 40 percent. 6


### And it's worth noting that Iowa also has 7



### some of the cheapest e lectricity in the nation. 8


### MidAmerican was able to invest in wind energy 9


### without increasing its customers' bills for more 10



### than a decade. 11


### Iowa's wind energy was a factor in 12


### drawing Facebook, Google, and Microsoft to locate 13



### their data centers in Iowa rath er than in our 14



### less energy

- d iverse neighbors and his condition 15



### of the s tate s peech in January, Governor Branstad 16


### attributed 41 percent Lee C ounty employment gains 17


### partly to turbine manufacturing in the state. 18


### Newton, Iowa, lost over 1,000 jobs when 19



### an app liance manufacturer left the city. Skilled 20


### workers were picked up by the wind industry when 21


### it arrived in the city

-- when several turbine 22

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### manufacturing companies arrived. 1


### Iowa is making progress in other clean 2


### energy industries, too. In May, Governor 3



### B ranstad signed the bipartisan bill renewing and 4


### tripling a state solar tax credit with the 5



### support of 134 out of Iowa's 138 state 6


### legislators. 7


### In fact, by blanketing the roofs of the 8


### eligible homes, warehouses, schools, banks, and 9



### more the state could mee t 20 percent of its 10


### electricity means. Imagine what could be done 11



### here in Colorado. 12



### If Iowa includes increased levels of 13


### energy efficiency in its state plan, we could 14


### spur the creation of more than 2,500 jobs and 15


### save homes an average of $6 every month o n their 16


### electricity bills. 17


### These jobs will be those HVAC workers, 18


### carpenters, and electricians to install 19


### insulation, and efficient windows, and appliances 20



### -- jobs that are still recovering from the 21



### recession. 22

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### With even more emphasis on energy 1


### efficiency we can waste less energy, save money, 2


### and create jobs. With the Clean Power Plan we 3


### can achieve a more affordable, more independent, 4


### and more cleaner electric system. Thank you. 5



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Okay. Mr. 6


### Singer and Mr. O'Herron . And on deck we have 7


### Virginia Cotts and Bill Corcoran if you wanted to 8


### sit in the chairs behind the speaker's table

-- 9


### and actually behind them if Ann Morgan and R. J. 10


### Harrington are in the room, they could also sit 11



### in the seats behind. 12


### Mr. Singer? 13



### MR. SINGER: Good morning. My name is 14


### Roger Singer, R

- O

- G

- E

- R. 15



### MS. NOONAN: Yours off, yours on. 16



### MR. SINGER: How's that? 17



### MS. NOONAN: Push. Thank you. 18



### MR. SINGER: Okay. Thanks. 19


### Hi, good morning again. My name is Roger 20


### Singer, R

- O

- G

- E

- R, S

- I

- N

- G

- E

- R. And I’m here to 21


### testify today both as a resident of Colorado as 22

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### well as a local staff representative of Sierra 1


### Club, the nation's largest and oldest 2


### conservation organization. 3


### I would like to first thank all of you 4


### here at EPA today for holding these important 5


### public hearings, not only here in Denver but 6


### across the nation on the critically important 7



### issue for our future. And I would like to see 8


### Sierra Club's strong support for the agency's 9


### Clean Power Plan for existing coal fire to power 10



### plants. After all, these coa l plants provide 38 11


### percent of all carbon dioxide pollution 12


### nationally

-- the biggest single fixed point 13


### source in the country and yet they have somehow 14



### -- at least up until now

-- never been regulated 15


### for carbon pollution. And it is well past time 16



### we ad dressed this primary source of carbon in a 17



### sensible manner. 18



### The Clean Power Plan makes sense for our 19


### health and our well being and for our expanding 20


### clean energy economy, not only here in Colorado 21



### but nationwide. 22

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### Now many of us know and applaud the fact 1



### that Colorado's already ahead of the curve and 2


### moving away from coal as a primary energy source 3


### and posturing the increase of renewable energy 4



### statewide from sources like wind and solar. 5



### Thanks to the success of recent ballot 6


### measures by the citizens of C olorado and state 7


### level legislation like the Clean Air, Clean Jobs 8



### Act and a 30 percent renewable energy standard, 9


### both of which Sierra Club and our allies strongly 10


### advocated for, we have a head start on meeting 11



### this national carbon standard. 12



### But as a Col oradan, I would like to point 13


### out that just meeting minimum level of this newly 14


### proposed standard through past action should not 15


### be our final goal. To continue being a national 16


### leader for renewable energy and really tackling 17


### climate change before it's too late, we 18


### Coloradans should be embracing the standard as a 19


### way to increase our state's efforts to reduce 20


### carbon pollution, to increase our new energy 21


### goals, and to help our neighboring states move 22

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### forward quickly to make this national proposal a 1



### success ac ross the American west where we have 2


### such ample opportunity and resources to set an 3


### example for the nation. 4


### We are seeing a boost of clean energy 5


### based jobs here in Colorado and elsewhere across 6


### the western region thanks to a focus on clean 7



### energy. Thes e are good paying jobs that entice 8


### families to move here, stay here, and spend here. 9


### Let's adopt this Clean Power Plan and 10


### keep that forward momentum going and keep 11


### bringing new clean energy jobs to our state and 12


### to our region. 13



### In summary, we support the Clean Power 14


### Plan because it will improve our health, our 15


### climate, and our economy. Thank you. 16



### MS. NOONAN: Mr. O'Herron? 17



### DR. O'HERRON: Thanks. Hello, my name's 18



### Dr. Patrick O'Herron. I'm

-- P

- A

- T

- R

- I

- C

- K, 19



### O

- apostrophy

- H

- E

- R

- R

- O

- N. I'm a practicing 20



### trauma and acute care surgeon from Oregon, a 21


### Board member of Oregon Physicians for Social 22

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### Responsibility and a Representative of National 1



### PSR. I speak for thousands of health care 2


### providers who are urging for greater action to 3


### reverse climate change. 4



### The health risks of climate change are 5



### substantial and include increases in heat

- related 6



### illnesses, insect borne diseases like malaria, 7


### Lyme disease, West Nile virus, water borne 8



### illnesses like cholera and Campylobacter, food 9


### and water insecurity, and the eff ects of conflict 10


### which arise in the resource depleted landscape of 11


### a warmer and much less accommodating planet. 12



### PSR and many of our members are 13


### submitting formal written comments, so I'd like 14


### to take this opportunity to speak personally. 15



### Honestly, what a m I, as a surgeon, doing here? 16


### Truly the EPA is aware that destabilizing our 17


### climate is an unparalleled public health 18


### disaster. Despite a real progress which has been 19


### made recognizing the threat of climate change and 20


### beginning to address its causes, atmo spheric 21


### levels of greenhouse gases continue to rise as we 22

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### charge on a largely business

- as

- usual fashion. 1



### This is madness. 2


### We're taking an unprecedented risk, and 3


### our failure to adequately address climate change 4


### and to be clear about those risks. The pub lic 5



### health threats associated with unchecked climate 6


### change mentioned earlier are bad enough, but 7


### almost certainly a serious under estimate of the 8



### true risks. 9


### Remember, our greatest advances in public 10



### health have been infrastructure related

-- 11


### improved sa nitation, sewage management, reliable 12


### clean water and food. Climate disruptions

-- 13


### climate disruption threatens this infrastructure 14


### with potentially catastrophic results to human 15



### health. 16



### And then combine that with the immediate 17


### benefits of embracing ener gy efficiency and clean 18


### energy, eliminating the extraction, transport, 19


### and burning of fossil fuels would result in large 20


### reductions in respiratory, cardiovascular, and 21


### cerebral vascular illnesses with the greatest of 22

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### those improvements being seen in volati le 1


### populations which are over represented in high 2



### exposure areas. 3



### In my work as a surgeon how well a 4


### patient fares is largely determined early in the 5


### course of their illness by the management 6


### decisions made and the quality of the operation 7



### they undergo. Every time I lif t the scalpel and 8


### place it on the skin of another person I feel the 9


### weight of responsibility to perform the operation 10



### well and care for that person the very best I 11



### can. 12


### So thank you for putting forward these 13


### Clean Power Plan protections. They're an 14


### important and necessary first step, but are they 15


### the very best we can do? A great deal is at 16


### stake. As you lift your scalpel, do so boldly 17


### and with greater ambition. Thank you very much. 18



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you, Pat. 19


### Virginia Cotts and Bill Corcoran, please? 20


### And then on deck, Jonathan Downing and Noah Long 21


### could join in the seats behind the speaker's 22

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### table. 1



### Ms. Cotts? 2


### MS. COTTS: It's Virginia Cotts

-- 3



### V

- I

- R

- G

- I

- N

- I

- A, C

- O

- T

- T

- S. My standard intro is 4



### I have hyper focused ADD and two degr ees in B.S., 5


### so it sounds interesting. I have a father who

-- 6



### MS. NOONAN: Can you

-- 7



### MS. COTTS:

-- took the G.I. Bill to a 8



### Ph.D. 9



### MS. NOONAN:

-- I'm sorry, Ms. Cotts, 10


### could you get a little closer? 11



### MS. COTTS: Sure. 12


### MS. NOONAN: We just want to mak e sure we 13



### hear you. 14



### MS. COTTS: Okay. 15



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 16


### MS. COTTS: My father took the G.I. Bill 17


### to a Ph.D. when he got home and did R and D work 18


### in building materials and finishing in 19



### environmental work. His mother came to live with 20



### us when I wa s very young, and she was known as 21


### the walking dictionary; so I learned about 22

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### defining terms and being very careful with words. 1



### And then Dad's older brother took that 2


### G.I. Bill to a physicist degree and helps develop 3



### the missiles for the nuclear subs. So I grew up 4


### in an environment very rich in science, and 5


### language, and reasoning. And it was wonderful. 6



### I loved it. 7



### And since Dad, and Grandma, and Mom were 8


### Unitarians, there was no fear or guilt associated 9


### with those things. I learned a lot of things 10



### ab out what science can do and how wonderful it 11


### is, and I became fascinated with the human body 12


### and decided to go into nursing because I wanted 13


### to be able to distill the path of physiology for 14


### my parent patients so that they could understand 15



### why they needed t o do things, why they needed to 16


### give up what they really loved to do and do 17


### things that weren't so fun. 18


### So, along the way I also married an 19


### environmental engineer or a chemist who became an 20


### environmental engineer and was hired by Hooker 21


### Chemicals out of g rad school when the Love Canal 22

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### was in remediation

. His job was the 200 streams 1



### and the PPE for the employees, went on to work 2



### for Alaska Department of Environmental 3



### Conservation hazardous waste manager. 4



### And we encountered in the '80 s the 5



### concept of legis lative capture . It wasn't named 6



### then, but it was in full force. 7


### So, ultimately he moved on and became a 8


### private contractor. And over the years as a 9


### nurse I became very concerned about different 10


### things in critical care and home care with 11


### patients who had been exposed to environmental 12



### toxins and such. 13



### But what h as totally made me upset with 14



### this denial of climate science

-- has been the 15


### concept that just because CO2 is part of our 16


### body, it's normal and it's natural. 17


### Reality for me in 16 years as a cr itical 18



### care nurse is when we have to do arterial blood 19


### gases to find out if that person is going 20


### acidotic, we're trying to get on top of it before 21


### it's too late. The body has two ways to 22

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### basically balance the pH in the body. There's a 1


### metabolic system an d the respiratory; but 2


### unfortunately, what happens is with carbon 3


### dioxide you get carbolic acid. And any time the 4


### pH which is normally in the arteries between 7.35 5



### and 7.451

-- a very narrow range

-- when it goes 6


### down, the affinity for red blood cells to take on 7


### O2 decreases, and they take on hydrogen ions. 8


### CO2 produces the carbolic acid; the pH goes down 9


### more. It becomes a vicious cycle, and medicine 10



### often cannot reverse it. 11


### So when we think that just because CO2 is 12


### part of our body is normal, well, ye s, it is but 13


### only in balance. And this is only one of the 14


### many types of chemical reactions that are based 15


### on this very normal pH and very narrow pH range. 16


### We are only one of the species on the 17



### earth that

-- many, many species that developed 18



### and evolved u sing a very normal, narrow pH range 19



### for chemical reactions that are essential for 20



### their survival. 21



### We know that much of the excess CO2 we 22

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### produce has been sequestered at deep ocean 1


### levels, that the coral reefs are disintegrating 2


### and ocean species with cal cium shells are

-- get 3



### threatened . Plankton, the basis of the ocean 4



### food chain is threatened. 5



### In the past week a Stanford scientist has 6


### released another study concluding the planet has 7



### entered its sixth mass extinction event, and over 8



### 50 percent of our s pecies will die over the not 9



### too distant future. 10


### Also in the past week Swedish and 11



### American scientists on the Solaris C

- 3 study of 12



### the Laptev continental shelf have found vast 13


### plumes of methane released from the Arctic Ocean 14



### hydrates. 15



### Carbon emissions ar e possible to cut. 16



### Methane releases we can mostly only control by 17


### mitigating the increase in temperatures. The 18


### first six months of this year were the highest 19



### recorded temperatures. 20


### We cannot continue to ignore , ridicule, 21



### or undermine the climate scienti sts whose 22

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### warnings are well supported and long overdue for 1


### action. This Clean Power Plan is a good step. 2



### (Buzzer sounded.) 3



### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Corcoran? 4


### MR. CORCORAN: My name is Bill C. It's 5



### spelled B

- I

- L

- L, C

- O

- R

- C

- O

- R

- A

- N. I am the 6


### Western Regional Director of the Sierra Club's 7


### Beyond Coal campaign. I appreciate the 8


### opportunity to speak to you today about why the 9


### Sierra Club supports the EPA's recently proposed 10



### Clean Power Plan. 11


### The carbon pollution standards for 12


### existing power plants are an histo ric step for 13


### addressing one of the most daunting challenges of 14


### our generation

-- climate disruption. Rising 15


### temperatures and reductions in our snow pack are 16


### ravaging our forests and emptying our reservoirs. 17


### The cost of inaction on climate are too high. 18


### There's a dire need to move quickly to 19


### climate solutions like wind, solar, and energy 20


### efficiency to stem the climate prices and protect 21



### our children's future. 22

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### Power plants cause 40 percent of the 1


### carbon pollution in the U.S. By cleaning up and 2



### moderniz ing power plants we will begin to clean 3


### up our air and curb climate disruption. Reducing 4


### carbon pollution from power plants will not only 5


### save billions of dollars each year, it saves 6



### lives and will reduce illness. 7


### You will hear today and through the 8



### comm ent period from those who want unlimited 9


### carbon pollution throughout the so

- called useful 10


### life of coal plants, but we must act now, 11


### together, to protect the useful life of the 12



### planet. 13


### The Clean Power Plan will spur 14


### innovation, accelerate the clean energy economy, 15


### and create good American jobs. If we are to grow 16


### our economy and shift into a 21st century 17


### renewable model for energy production, we must 18


### modernize our infrastructure and diversify our 19



### sources. 20


### Many states are already leading the 21



### charge to trans ition to clean energy. The Clean 22

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### Power Plan creates a strong framework that will 1



### enable states to move towards clean energy and 2


### put states in the driver's seat to create a plan 3


### to limit carbon pollution. The U.S. is well on 4


### its way to meeting and exceedi ng the EPA proposed 5


### goal, and the states can be leaders in making the 6


### transition to a clean, equitable energy future. 7



### Sierra Club will work with allies to 8



### strengthen the EPA's carbon standards for 9


### existing power plants. With improvements Sierra 10



### Club reco mmends, the Clean Power Plan could 11


### reduce power plant emissions by 35 to 40 percent 12


### from 2005 levels by 2020. This is necessary to 13


### meet the President's goal of a 17 percent 14



### reduction in U.S. carbon emissions from 2005 15



### levels by 2020 and promote energy eff iciency and 16


### renewable energy without incentivizing natural 17


### gas, nuclear energy, and other climate disrupting 18



### energy sources. 19


### In 2012 wind energy and solar 20


### photovoltaics were two of the fastest growing 21


### electric generation technologies in the United 22

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### States. Cumulative installed wind energy 1


### capacity increased by nearly 28 percent, and 2


### cumulative installed solar photovoltaic capacity 3


### grew more than 83 percent from the previous year. 4


### EPA rightly includes these resources in 5


### setting the state targets, but the a vailability 6


### and quantity of renewable energy opportunities 7


### assumed in the plan is too low. With a current 8


### account of retirements of dirty power plants and 9


### a more accurate estimate of growth in the 10


### renewable energy and energy efficiency sectors 11



### the Clean P ower Plan could produce deeper 12


### reductions in carbon pollution. 13



### The Sierra Club will work to ensure that 14


### the most vulnerable communities are protected by 15



### the standards and consulted throughout the 16


### standard setting and state plan development 17



### process and tha t public resources are made 18


### available to help workers and affected 19


### communities transition to the clean energy 20



### economy. 21


### Poll after poll demonstrates Americans 22

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### support implementation of the Clean Air Act and 1


### letting the EPA do its job to protect public 2



### heal th and ensure a cleaner future for us all. 3


### We should not let corporate polluters derail 4



### standards that will benefit our children, 5



### families, and all Americans who value clean air 6


### and wild places. 7


### Again, we strongly support EPA's efforts 8



### to clean up danger ous carbon pollution, and we 9


### strongly support this rule. Thank you. 10



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 11


### Ann Morgan and R. J. Harrington? 12


### And by my watch it's about 11:00 o'clock, 13


### and we would just like to remind everyone that 14


### there are many, many people wai ting to watch this 15


### hearing and to observe it. And in the spirit of 16


### fairness and cooperation, we ask anyone that can 17



### to please have someone

-- give someone else the 18


### opportunity to listen to today's proceedings. 19


### I'm asking folks who have been here 20



### listen ing to give up their seats so that others 21


### may be able to hear today's testimony. Thank 22

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### you. 1


### MS. MORGAN: Thank you. My name is Ann 2



### Morgan, A

- N

- N, M

- O

- R

- G

- A

- N. And I’m with the 3


### National Wildlife Federation, and I am here today 4



### to express my strong suppo rt for EPA's long 5


### overdue action to combat climate change by 6


### finally setting limits on carbon pollution from 7


### existing power plants. 8


### Many Americans probably think that we are 9


### already regulating our nation's largest source of 10


### climate changing emissions, but this is not yet 11


### the case. Despite the original Clean Air Act 12


### being passed in 1963, over 50 years ago, and 13


### signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson, 14


### despite important updates to the law in 1970 that 15



### established national standards for hazardous air 16



### poll utants signed into law by President Richard 17


### Nixon 44 years ago, despite critical updates to 18


### the law in 1990 signed into law by President 19


### George H. W. Bush 24 years ago, carbon pollution 20


### from existing power plants remains unregulated 21



### today. 22

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### It has been wel l documented that carbon 1


### pollution and greenhouse gases endanger human 2



### health as well as the health of our wildlife and 3



### our planet. Now is the time to act. 4


### Limits on industrial carbon pollution are 5


### critically needed to protect America's 6


### communities, publ ic health, and wildlife from the 7


### worst impacts of climate change, fuels, extreme 8



### weather, and wildfire events. These events 9


### aren't just predicted by scientific modeling and 10



### research. 11


### Coloradans are experiencing these events 12



### firsthand. Extreme wildfire e vents that are 13


### burning hotter, larger, and faster than ever 14


### before, destroying people's homes, critical 15


### wildlife habitat, recreational opportunities, and 16


### smoking out our summer blue skies. 17


### Severe rain and flooding events such as 18



### last September that caused over $2 billion in 19


### damages with communities still struggling to 20


### recover. Coloradans are seeing overall reduced 21



### snow packs, extended droughts, and lower average 22

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### river levels affecting agriculture, city water 1


### supplies, recreation, and wildlife alike. Thes e 2


### aren't predictions. They are our reality today. 3



### American's treasure their wildlife 4


### heritage, and we are seeing significant impacts 5


### from carbon and greenhouse gas pollution to our 6



### fish and wildlife resources. Cutthroat trout, a 7



### favorite of Colorado ang lers, has been declining 8


### due to climate change and drought. Sage Grouse 9


### and mule deer are suffering from effects of 10


### drought and wildfire. The timing of Big Horn 11


### Sheep reproductive cycles and lambing dates may 12


### no longer coincide with prime forage and food 13


### availability. 14


### American support actions limit industrial 15


### carbon pollution. A Washington Post, ABC poll 16


### taken just last month found that 70 percent say 17


### the federal government should have limits on 18


### greenhouse emissions from power plants, and 63 19



### percent say they would be willing to see a 20


### utility bill increase of $20 per month to have 21



### them. 22

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### A National Wildlife Federation poll of 1



### sportsmen and women last year showed that 69 2


### percent agree that the U.S. should reduce its 3


### carbon pollution, that it's contributing to 4


### global warming and threatening our fish and 5



### wildlife habitat. 6



### The people polled come from all across 7


### America, not just those who could take time off 8


### work to show up at a hearing and give testimony. 9


### EPA's Clean Power Plan is a major step in the 10


### right direction, and it will help speed the way 11



### to a future in which we invest more in wildlife 12


### friendly sources of clean energy that are so 13



### abundant in Colorado. 14



### Since 2009 the administration has 15


### supported 6,245 renewable energy projects in 16


### Colorado, generatin g enough energy to power 17



### nearly 130,000 homes. Colorado has great 18


### potential to expand solar and wind power across 19



### the state and we are ranked fourth in the nation 20


### for solar energy potential. 21


### The potential positive impacts of capping 22

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### carbon pollution in C olorado could add $622 1


### million to the economy and create over 9,000 2


### jobs. 3



### The EPA's limits are a common sense, 4


### state specific approach that acknowledged the 5



### good work that Colorado has already undertaken. 6


### As you finalize the standards I ask that you work 7


### to ensure that it achieves the deepest reductions 8


### possible by requiring states to use wildlife 9


### friendly renewable energy and energy efficiency 10


### and not just by simply burning more natural gas. 11


### In its rulemaking EPA estimated that 12



### Colorado can generate nea rly 15 percent of our 13


### power from renewable sources in 2020, which is 14


### substantially less ambitious than our own 15



### standards of our own energy goal of 30 percent 16


### power from renewables in 2020. 17



### The EPA should strengthen the proposed 18



### standard to reflect Colorad o's current goal. 19


### Thank you for the opportunity to comment today. 20


### We hope that you will do everything you can to 21



### ensure the Clean Power Plan stays strong 22

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### throughout the entire process. Future 1


### generations and our wildlife heritage are 2


### counting on your le adership. Now is the time to 3



### act. Thank you. 4



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Harrington? 5



### MR. HARRINGTON: Good day, Jenny, Dee, 6



### and Scott , members of the Colorado community and 7


### the American west. My name is R. J. Harrington. 8



### That's R

- J, H

- A

- R

- R

- I

- N

- G

- T

- O

- N. I'm the 9


### Executive Director of Clean Energy Action, 10


### husband, father, brother to my siblings and to 11


### all of humanity. 12


### The cost of inaction exceed by orders of 13


### magnitude the costs of action with the Clean 14


### Power Plan. Thank you for the opportunity to 15



### su bmit these comments on behalf of this and every 16


### generation. I speak most especially today on 17


### behalf of our children, my daughter 10 and a 18


### half, and my son who celebrates his 8th birthday 19


### today are members of a generation who will have 20



### to adapt to the resu lts of the last 150 years of 21


### using their atmosphere as a sewer. This practice 22

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### must stop. It must stop so that future costs of 1


### adaptation are kept in check. 2



### You've heard reference to many of those 3


### costs described by Counsel of EDF a few minutes 4



### ago. Tho se of us who understand the preliminary 5


### estimates of those costs understand that they 6


### will already be significant. We cannot morally 7


### pass any additional adaptation costs along to 8


### future generations. 9


### In the past our ancestors predominantly 10



### acted on behalf of leaving a better life for 11


### their progeny. Certainly they thought of their 12



### needs in the moment, but the needs of future 13


### generations were also considered in each and 14


### every decision. That practice is largely absent 15


### from society, and it is up to us to rem ember and 16


### renew that commitment today and tomorrow. 17



### Those of us who have remained committed 18


### to the future will act accordingly in the 19


### present. The Clean Power Plan is a good start 20


### and forms a solid foundation upon which to build. 21



### We must support these m odest goals now so that we 22

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### can improve upon them in the immediate future. 1


### We hear the spin that this plan is 2



### Obama's or the EPA's war on coal. This statement 3


### is a lie. It is a geologic war on coal that is 4


### underway, and this plan realizes and takes steps 5


### to deal with diminishing economically recoverable 6



### fossil reserves. I use the word reserves to 7



### differentiate from resources. 8



### Resources are all the fossils that are in 9



### the ground. Reserves are those resources that 10


### are economically recoverable. The price we pay 11


### for the fossil reserves has been rising steadily 12


### for years. This trend will not discontinue. 13


### One of the ironies of steadily increasing 14


### coal prices is the price at which we sell or

-- 15



### quote

-- lease

-- unquote

-- our fossils to the 16



### lowest bidder. How can we lease a commodity that 17


### is not returned or reused is a mystery. 18


### The Department of the Interior through 19


### the BLM is tasked with leasing fossil coal only 20


### if it is in the public interest. Full 21


### consideration must be given to environmental and 22

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### econo mic implications of those leases. The irony 1


### is particularly poignant this week due to the 2



### fact that tomorrow in Lakewood, Colorado, unless 3


### we succeed in getting Secretary J ewell to stop 4



### the process, the Spruce Stomp l ease on the 5



### western slope of Colorado will occur to a Chinese 6



### company for export . It is ironic that one branch 7


### of government is examining mitigating the effects 8


### of carbon while another branch is exacerbating 9



### those costs. 10


### We hear the spin that what we do to 11


### mitigate carbon will not matter if China 12



### continues to burn. What we do does matter, and 13



### we should not sell our coal for the cost of a 14


### pack of chewing gum per ton of that coal to the 15


### lowest bidder. America needs to develop safe, 16


### clean, renewable energy technologies for export 17



### instead. 18



### We hear the spin that transitioning away 19


### from coal will be too costly. Efficiency and 20



### safe, clean, renewable investments are cost 21


### competitive today and offer stable pricing over 22

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### the 25 or more years of their useful electric

-- 1


### electricity generating capacity

. 2


### How can that price be stable? Because 3



### once the facilities are constructed, there is 4



### zero fuel cost. Contrast that to a fossil 5


### facility that must be constantly fueled with 6


### constantly rising fossil fuel prices. 7



### I also speak to the folks that work and 8



### l ive in the fossil industry. The opportunity 9


### cost of not becoming retrained in the new economy 10


### of the 21st century is great. Ask the corporate 11


### bosses, some of whom spin off your retirement and 12



### health care benefits into subsidiaries that then 13



### are bankrupte d, what they are prepared to do to 14


### train you for the new economy since they are no 15


### longer investing in the Powder River basin 16


### because their margins are low or negative, what 17


### is their long

- term commitment to you and your 18



### families? 19



### (Buzzer sounded.) 20



### MR. HA RRINGTON: Please strengthen 21



### standards under the Clean Power Plan. The costs 22

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### of inaction exceed the cost of action. Thank 1



### you. 2



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 3


### Mr. Jonathan Downing and Mr. Noah Long? 4



### MR. DOWNING: Good morning. 5


### MS. NOONAN: Good morning. 6


### MR. DOWNING: I am Jonathan Downing with 7


### the Wyoming Mining Association. J

- O

- N

- A

- T

- H

- A

- N, 8



### D

- O

- W

- N

- I

- N

- G. 9


### The Wyoming Mining

-- 10



### UNIDENTIFED SPEAKER: Would you start 11



### over? 12



### MR. DOWNING: You want a respell? 13



### UNIDENTIFIED: Yeah. 14



### MR. DOWNING: J

- O

- N

- A

- T

- H

- A

- N, 15



### D

- O

- W

- N

- I

- N

- G. W

- Y

- O

- M

- I

- N

- G. 16


### All righty. The Wyoming Mining 17


### Association is a statewide trade organization 18


### that represents and advocates for 39 mining 19


### company members producing ben t onite, coal, T rona, 20


### and uranium as well as one company develop ing 21


### rare earth minerals. WMA also represents 129 22

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### associate mem ber companies, two railroads, and 1


### 180 individual company's members. 2


### Wyoming leads the nation in coal 3


### production, mining nearly 400 million tons of 4


### coal annually. In addition, we are the singl e 5


### largest net producer of energy for the region and 6



### the nation. 7


### While Texas produces slightly more energy 8


### than Wyoming, it consumes more than its 9


### production. Wyoming exports almost 10 trillion 10


### BTUs per year to the rest of the nation for use 11


### in power plan ts, automobiles, homes, and 12


### factories. Most of that energy is from coal. 13


### Recently announced EPA emission standards 14


### on existing stationery electric utility 15


### generating units requires states to submit plans 16


### to reduce their power sector CO2 emissions by 26 17



### t o 27 percent by 2020 and 30 to 32 percent by 18



### 2030 as compared to '05 levels. 19


### Whether or not EPA has the authority to 20


### regulate CO2 emissions from existing coal fueled 21


### electric generators is yet to be determined. In 22

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### effect, by taking this action with the C lean 1



### Power Plan it creates a de facto ban on older 2


### coal fired power plants while not allowing for 3


### new technologies to become on line to reduce 4


### emissions. It is essentially eliminating coal as 5


### a future source of electricity for our nation. 6


### And considering that coal currently 7


### accounts for 20 percent of the power in America's 8


### electricity generation, the question of what will 9


### make up the megawatt difference is one that as 10


### existing power plants are retired needs to be 11


### answered, but aside from this problematic 12


### scenario, there will be real and tangible effects 13


### for every citizen. 14



### The U.S. Chamber of Commerce estimates 15


### that the cost of these new regulations will be 16


### $51 billion in annual economic losses and job 17


### losses of 224,000 for Americans in the industry 18



### as w ell as

-- as a result of these new 19


### regulations. And we find that not acceptable. 20



### Coal is America's most abundant, 21



### reliable, and affordable energy resource, yet the 22

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### choice has been made deliberately to put it off 1


### limits, playing favorites for costly, heav ily 2



### subsidized renewables and unreliable resources to 3


### blindly advance this current president's 4


### environmental program. 5



### Utilities will face issues with over 6


### reliance on natural gas and the innate inability 7


### and undependability of renewables to meet power 8



### gen eration needs while passing along that cost 9



### and that expense to the customer. 10


### Again, here lies the real crux of the 11



### matter. The elimination of coal as a source of 12


### electricity generation through impressive 13


### regulation hurts real people in the form of job 14



### l osses, higher utility bills, and a lower 15


### standard of living for little to no benefit to 16


### public health, reduction in global emissions, or 17


### lowering of perceived temperature hikes. 18



### The facts speak for themselves but are 19



### often lost in the gamesmanship that a company's 20


### implementation of political agendas. According 21



### to the EPA's own data, coal based power 22

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### generation in the U.S. has increased 170 percent 1


### since 1970 while emissions of pollutants 2


### originally regulated under the Clean Air Act have 3



### decreased over 85 percent. 4



### This remarkable success has been achieved 5


### by common sense regulation and timely advances in 6



### technology, and we would ask that there be 7


### opportunity for additional advances in technology 8


### as we continue to improve our reductions in 9



### emissions. 10



### We ap preciate the opportunity to be here 11



### to comment today, and we respectfully urge the 12


### Agency to fully consider the real impact of its 13



### actions on the American con sumer and taxpayer, 14


### jobs, and affordable energy, and in developing 15



### CO2 emission rules for the exis ting coal fueled 16


### coal fired fleet. We also urge EPA to consider 17


### holding additional listening sessions in the 18



### communities that are affected in coal

- producing 19



### states and rural America and to hear from those 20


### that are most directly affected by these actions. 21



### Thank you. 22

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### MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much. You 1


### could turn your mike off. 2



### MR. LONG: Good morning. My name is Noah 3



### Long. That's spelled N

- O

- A

- H, L

- O

- N

- G. I'm the 4


### Legal Director of the Western Energy Project of 5



### the Natural Resources Defense Council. Thank you 6


### very much for taking my comments this morning on 7


### this important issue. 8


### Power plants are responsible for emitting 9


### 40 percent of the industrial carbon pollution 10


### we're exposed to here in the United States. 11



### While we limit how much arsenic, lead, and 12


### mercury power plants are allowed to dump into the 13


### air, there is currently no limit set for how much 14


### carbon pollution should be allowed. That's why 15


### EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan is so important. 16



### It sets the first ever limits on carbon 17


### pollution from power plants which is an essential 18


### step towards addressing the costly impacts of 19


### climate change. 20


### Abiding by these national standards will 21


### not only give states the flexibility but can spur 22

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### innovation while protecting the health and 1



### environment of our comm unities as we clean up our 2


### air. It will also begin to fulfill the 3


### obligation we have to future generations to be 4


### responsible stewards of this earthly inheritance 5


### of a livable planet. 6



### As a westerner, I, myself, have seen the 7


### effects of climate change. Si nce my grandparents 8



### moved to Colorado in the first half of the last 9


### century, temperatures have climbed, droughts and 10


### floods have increased in frequency. Snow pack 11


### and glaciers have diminished. 12


### These changes are threatening the 13


### economies and the ways of l ife around the west, 14


### creating challenges for farms and ranches, 15



### wildlife and outdoor enthusiasts. 16


### So I find myself wondering will my son be 17


### able to enjoy fishing in the same rivers and 18


### streams, swimming in the same alpine lakes and 19


### skiing in the same As pen glades that I do now? I 20



### love those places so much, but I don't know. 21


### Because of climate change the answer is that I 22

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### don't know. 1


### But western states are also demonstrating 2


### the leadership and moving forward with clean 3


### energy to tackle climate change. Western states 4


### are moving away from dirty fossil fuels and 5


### embracing cleaner and more cost effective energy 6


### solutions like renewable energy and energy 7


### efficiency. 8


### Legislators and regulators in every 9


### western state from New Mexico to Washington have 10



### decided to shutter older dirtier coal plants in 11


### favor of less polluting resources. Many power 12


### plants across the west are already participating 13



### in a carbon market because of California's carbon 14



### standard. 15


### Colorado has among the highest renewable 16


### energy standard i n the country and is reliably 17


### and affordably integrating more and more 18



### renewable energy every day. 19


### In Wyoming plans are under way for the 20


### largest wind energy facility in the world. And 21


### California has the largest solar thermal facility 22

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### in the world. Sola r power is being used to power 1


### Olympic facilities in Salt Lake and Fort Carson, 2


### south of Colorado Springs. With an average cost 3


### of two and a half cents per kilowatt hour western 4


### regulators and utilities are used to seeing 5


### energy efficiency as the fastest, cheapest, and 6



### cleanest energy resource. 7


### Now those same regulators are seeing 8


### improving utility purchases of wind and solar 9


### power as the cheapest power generation 10


### alternative for their customers. NREC supports 11


### the building blocks put forward by the U.S. EPA 12


### and agrees with providing states the necessary 13


### flexibility to find their own ways to reduce 14



### emissions. 15


### We urge you to move forward with this 16


### plan and to move swiftly in proposing a roadmap 17


### for cutting carbon pollution at amounts 18



### comparable to the surr ounding states from power 19


### plants located on tribal lands. 20


### We know states are already developing 21


### renewable energy and investing in energy 22

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### efficiency at levels higher than EPA assumes is 1


### possible, and we heartily support going beyond 2


### the proposed requiremen ts as we know the benefits 3



### will increase as we do so. We know that 4


### utilities across the country are planning on 5


### shuttering old and inefficient coal plants. 6


### These changes in the power sector are creating 7


### jobs, improving public health, and taking the 8



### first step towards safeguarding our communities 9


### from the consequences of climate change. 10


### States are leading the way on clean 11



### energy development, and a strong Clean Power Plan 12


### will empower them to take the next steps to do 13



### so. Thank you so much. 14



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you, Noah. 15


### Thad Kurowski and Howard Geller, next up. 16


### And then on deck, Edy Chang, Bruce Ray, if you'd 17


### like to take seats behind the speaker's table and 18



### then behind them, Mark Fix and Marsha Miller, 19


### also take seats behind the speaker's table. 20



### Yours on? 21



### MR. KUROWSKI: Thank you. I'm Thad 22

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### Kurowski. I'm the Director of Policy in 1


### Electricity Markets for SolarCity. We are the 2


### nation's largest solar power provider. 3



### You spell my name T

- H

- A

- D, 4



### K

- U

- R

- O

- W

- S

- K

- I. 5



### And I'm here today to talk for the EPA's 6



### proposed Clean Power Plan and the future of 7


### rooftop solar. For decades fossil fuel power 8


### plants, the largest sources of carbon pollution, 9


### have been allowed to dump unlimited amounts of 10


### carbon into our air, threatening American 11


### communities, and costing us billions of dollars 12


### each year by worsening climate disruption and 13


### threatening the health of our families and 14



### communities. 15



### In Colorado we've already felt the 16


### impacts of climate disruption in recent years 17


### through severe drought and devastating forest 18



### fires . In 2011 and 2012 alone those extreme 19



### weather events cost the State of Colorado over 20


### $600 million in federal disaster aid and the 21



### health of many of our loved ones. 22

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### Air pollution from power plants also 1


### threatens our health by causing life

- threatening 2



### ill nesses, like childhood asthma, that costs us 3


### billions of dollars each year. Every year air 4


### pollution from the Colorado coal

- fired power 5


### plants contributes to 53 deaths, 81 heart 6



### attacks, and over a thousand asthma attacks as 7


### well as costing us $400,000 in health costs. We 8


### all pay a price for air pollution. These costs 9


### to our health and wallets will only grow unless 10



### we act. 11


### According to the National Climate 12


### Assessment released earlier this year, Colorado 13



### and the southwest can expect even more heat 14



### waves, more extreme and sustained droughts, and 15


### poorer air and water quality in decades ahead 16


### which threatens the health and security of 17



### Colorado families and businesses as well as those 18


### throughout the United States. 19


### Now, as part of the President's Climate 20



### Acti on Plan, the U.S. Environmental Protection 21



### Agency has proposed the Clean Power Plan to curb 22

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### dangerous carbon pollution from existing power 1


### plants for the first time. This is a huge moment 2


### of opportunity to revamp our aging power grid by 3


### investing in clean energy and boosting Colorado's 4



### already

- growing clean energy economy. 5



### In 2004 the people of Colorado passed the 6



### nation's first voter

- determined renewable energy 7


### standard, requiring utilities to add clean energy 8


### to their power generation resources. Since then 9



### thousands of Coloradans have made the choice to 10


### install solar on their rooftops, generating their 11


### own power from the sun and driving rooftop solar 12


### prices down faster than anyone anticipated. 13


### Now almost 250 solar companies employ 14



### 3,600 Coloradans thro ughout the state. SolarCity 15


### provides 350 of those jobs and employs over 6,000 16



### nationwide who have installed almost 650 17


### megawatts of distributed solar. 18


### In 2012 private investment for installing 19



### solar in Colorado homes and businesses totaled 20


### $187 million. We've built a vibrant industry 21


### here alongside our utility companies. 22

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### Now, in various states, including right 1


### here in Colorado, large utilities are fighting 2


### rooftop solar, trying to put the people that I 3


### work with out of their jobs and attempting to 4


### impo se limitations on the future economic and 5


### health benefits that rooftop solar provides. 6


### Supporting state and federal policies 7


### like the EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan that 8


### gives each state targets to help cut overall 9


### carbon pollution from power plants by 3 0 percent 10


### from 2005 levels by the year 2030 is a positive 11


### step toward supporting clean energy solutions 12


### like rooftop solar. 13


### States can create their own plan for 14


### meeting these targets in a number of ways, 15


### including increasing energy efficiency and 16



### renewabl e energy. By cleaning up and modernizing 17


### power plants as well as continuing to grow the 18



### rooftop solar market here and across the country, 19


### we will take significant steps to reduce 20


### pollution

- related illness, keep our

-- help keep 21



### our children healthier, and curb the worst 22

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### effects of planet disruption and grow the 1



### economy. 2


### The plan will spur innovation, accelerate 3



### the clean energy economy, and create good 4


### American jobs like those we've seen here created 5



### in Colorado. 6


### SolarCity supports the EPA's Clean Power 7



### Plan and urges the EPA for added support for 8


### distributed solar generation in order to further 9


### economic development and press large utilities to 10


### reduce carbon pollution beyond compliance levels 11


### provided

-- excuse me

-- beyond compliance levels 12


### provided in t he

-- and under consideration. 13



### Thank you. 14


### MR. GELLER: Good morning. I am Howard 15



### Geller, spelled G

- E

- L

- L

- E

- R. I'm the Executive 16


### Director of the Southwest Energy Efficiency 17


### Project. We go by the acronym of SWEEP. SWEEP 18



### is a non

- profit organization ded icated to 19


### advancing more efficient energy use in Arizona, 20


### Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming. 21


### SWEEP praises the EPA for the landmark 22

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### Clean Power Plan as well as for including energy 1


### efficiency as a compliance strategy. 2



### The four block approac h to setting the 3


### emissions reduction goals as well as the approach 4


### of adding energy savings credits to the 5


### denominator of the CO2 emissions rate goals is a 6


### very sound approach. Including energy efficiency 7


### prominently as the EPA has done will enable 8



### states to meet the emissions reduction goals at 9



### least cost and with net economic benefits for 10



### households and businesses. 11


### Energy efficiency efforts are ramping up 12


### here in the southwest as well as throughout the 13



### nation. In Colorado, for exa mple, our main 14



### electri c utility, Xcel Energy, has expanded its 15


### energy efficiency programs over the past five 16


### years, cutting CO2 emissions from its power 17


### plants and saving its customers $900 million net 18


### as a result of the efficiency programs 19


### implemented over the past five years alone. 20


### There are tremendous opportunities for 21


### further cost effective energy savings even in 22

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### states that have been leaders in energy 1


### efficiency for the past 10 to 20 years. 2


### As for the details of the proposed rule, 3


### three major electric utilities in our reg ion, 4


### Arizona Public Service Company, the Salt River 5


### Project, and Tucson Electric Power are already 6


### exceeding the energy efficiency target in 7


### Building Block 4, meaning they are achieving more 8


### than 1.5 percent energy savings per year from 9


### their energy effici ency programs as of 2012 and 10


### 2013. Other utilities in the region are in the 11


### range of this target as well. 12


### Assuming that all states can move up to 13


### 1.5 percent savings per year from utility 14


### programs is a very reasonable assumption. 15



### In addition, SWEEP reco mmends increasing 16


### the Building Block 4 energy efficiency target 17



### from one and a half percent per year to two 18


### percent per year which the EPA has suggested as a 19


### possibility to recognize the contribution that 20


### building codes, state appliance standards, tax 21



### ince ntives, and other non

- utility programs can 22

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### make to every state's CO2 emissions reduction 1



### efforts. These non

- utility programs can easily 2


### provide a half percent savings per year in 3


### addition to the one and a half percent savings 4


### per year from utility program s. 5



### And the other comment I'd like to make 6


### here is that we recommend shifting to counting 7


### energy savings based on the gross savings from 8


### energy efficiency policies and programs rather 9


### than the net savings approach that EPA has used 10


### in the proposed rule. T his will simplify 11


### evaluation and verification requirements for both 12


### utility and non

- utility programs. It also helps 13


### to justify moving up to the two percent per year 14


### savings target. 15



### And in addition, actual emissions 16



### reductions in the real world are based on gross 17


### savings, not an estimate of net savings. 18


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 19


### here today, and we will be submitting more 20


### detailed comments later in the year. 21


### MS. NOONAN: I actually have a question 22

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### for each of you. Mr. Geller, actually, that was 1


### one of my questions was if you could submit more 2


### information about the gross versus net technical 3


### information, that will be very helpful to us. 4



### MR. GELLER: Will do. 5



### MS. NOONAN: And also, Mr. Kurowski, 6



### could you

-- are many of the rooftop installers 7


### that you are associated with small businesses? 8


### And if you could say a little bit about the 9


### number of employees they might have? 10



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You'll need to 11


### turn your mike off. 12



### MR. KUROWSKI: So Solar City

-- well, 13


### Solar City is an independent company that hires 14


### its own installers. Currently, again, we have 15


### over 6,000 nationwide employees. And we are 16


### rapidly expanding as quickly as we possibly can 17


### in states where there are favorable policies such 18


### as the ones that we're discussing and consider ing 19



### today. 20


### As far as the solar industry within 21



### Colorado itself, the total number of installers 22

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### and folks who are directly and indirectly 1



### associated with those

-- those individual 2


### organizations, I am not sure about. I don't

-- 3



### based on the number of megaw atts that they 4


### install annually here per year, I would speculate 5



### that that's somewhere in the about 1,500 to 2,000 6



### range. 7


### MS. NOONAN: If you have any information 8



### about that, that would be also helpful to us. 9



### MR. KUROWSKI: I would love to follow up 10



### with you on that. 11


### MS. NOONAN: All right. Thank you so 12



### much. 13



### And next up we have Edy Chang and Bruce 14



### Ray. 15


### MS. CHANG: Hello, my name is Edy Chang, 16


### and I'm the Deputy Executive Officer of the 17



### California Air Resources Board, or ARB. We are 18



### the state agency charged with providing he althful 19


### air and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. 20



### I'm pleased to be here today to offer ARB 21



### support for the Clean Power Plan. Western 22

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### states, including California, have a long history 1


### as successfully addressing tough air polluti on 2


### problems. And we're confident that through 3


### collaboration with our neighbors and with U.S. 4


### EPA we will prevail in reducing greenhouse gas 5



### emissions to combat the effects of climate 6



### change. 7


### California has made much progress in 8


### reducing greenhouse gas em issions through both 9



### new AB

- 32 programs and previously existing 10



### programs. 11


### We have been implementing energy 12


### efficiency requirements, including appliance and 13


### building efficiency standards for years; and we 14


### are well on our way to meeting a 33 percent 15



### renewab le energy portfolio by 2020. 16


### Our cap and trade program will reduce 17


### emissions across a broad swath of energy 18


### including power plants. 19


### Our scoping plan, which is our roadmap to 20


### reducing carbon emissions was recently updated to 21


### focus on post 2020 actions and recognizes that 22

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### achieving our climate goals will also move us 1


### towards meeting the health phased ozone and PM 2


### standards and reduce the risk from your toxics. 3



### California has done much to reduce 4


### greenhouse gas emissions over the last few 5



### decades. We are pl eased that EPA's proposal 6


### provides flexibility as to how states show 7


### compliance and will work with EPA to ensure our 8


### existing efforts are properly credited. 9


### Looking beyond our state lines, we 10


### believe California also has an important role to 11


### play in suppor ting a low carbon grid for the 12


### western United States since we import a 13


### significant fraction of our electricity from our 14


### neighbors in the west. 15


### California's existing energy efficiency 16



### and renewable energy programs can help reduce 17


### demand on higher carbon fa cilities in the western 18


### region grid , and California can be an important 19


### market for renewable energy from elsewhere in the 20


### region. 21


### Further, we strongly believe that these 22

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### opportunities are not limited to California 1


### because the western grid is marked by ver y 2


### substantial import and export relationships 3


### between states. There may be opportunity for our 4


### states to identify low cost options to 5


### collectively meet our federal carbon targets if 6


### we explore these options together. 7


### We are looking carefully at EPA's 8



### acc ounting rules for renewable energy and energy 9


### efficiency. Under the current proposal states 10


### generally would not be able to take credit for 11


### the effects of their energy efficiency programs 12


### in other states or for renewable energy they sell 13


### beyond their borde rs. 14


### Adjusting the proposal to provide 15


### incentives for developing cross state energy 16


### efficiency and renewable energy will encourage 17


### collaborative regional plans that may help to 18


### unlock significant opportunities for additional 19



### CO2 emission reductions not onl y in the west but 20



### for the whole country. 21


### California, as well as many other states, 22

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### asked EPA to take a holistic look at CO2 1


### emissions from the power sector. EPA responded 2


### to this request by acknowledging that the best 3


### system of emission reductions extend s beyond the 4


### facility's fence line. We have more and better 5


### options working together than working alone. 6


### We will need EPA support as we move 7


### forward. And that will be working with multiple 8


### EPA regions to design joint compliance options 9


### and provide the d ata needed to support them. It 10


### will also mean working with tribal nations to 11


### make sure that plants on tribal lands and the 12


### policy direction each nation wishes to take are 13


### part of our collective thinking. It will mean 14


### working together to develop workable models for 15


### regional compliance plans which recognize the 16


### diversity of our state's energy mixes, political 17


### choices, and energy policy goals by giving us 18


### room to agree to joint commitments where we need 19


### them and to go our own way where that is 20


### appropriate. 21



### We understand that with the amount of 22

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### flexibility provided for in the proposal and the 1


### differences in each state's energy mix and 2


### regulatory structure, enforceability of 3


### compliance plan elements will be a difficult but 4



### critical issue to address. Californi a is poised 5


### at the ready to contribute to these 6


### enforceability discussions. 7


### In short, we look forward to exploring 8


### regional options which can be tailored to focus 9


### on the areas where shared accounting and shared 10


### commitments help us all to comply cost 11



### effec tively and which can deliver major carbon 12


### reductions in a more robust and efficient power 13



### system. 14


### Already, California officials have 15


### enjoyed meeting with many of our state and 16


### federal counterparts to explore our options, and 17


### we look forward to continuing this regional 18


### discussion as we move forward. Thank you. 19



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Ray? 20


### MR. RAY: Good morning. My name is Bruce 21


### Ray, and I serve as Director of Governmental and 22

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### Regulatory Affairs at Johns Manville. I also 1


### have the privilege of serv ing on the SWEEP Board 2


### of Directors with Howard Geller. You've just 3


### heard from him. And we support their work to 4


### further implement energy efficiency in the 5



### southwest. 6



### And, of course, we also have one of our 7


### big plants located in northern California and 8


### participate in the AB

- 32 Cap and Trade program, 9



### so

-- Johns Manville is a Berkshire Hathaway 10


### company. We manufacture three primary products 11



### -- insulation, including fiberglass and foam, 12


### commercial roofing systems, including roofing 13


### insulation and glass f iber based engineering 14



### products

-- engineered products for such uses as 15


### composites and energy. 16


### Our world headquarters is in Denver just 17



### a few blocks from here. We have 7,000 employees 18


### at 45 manufacturing locations mostly in North 19


### America and Europe and fully 70 percent of our 20


### products promote end use energy efficiency 21


### whether it's in buildings, transportation, high 22

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### temperature uses such as power plants, oil 1


### refineries, as well as an original equipment 2


### manufacturing other applications. And you can 3



### find m ore information about Johns Manville and 4


### more data in our 2013 Sustainability Report at 5



### JM.com. 6


### Our building insulation products, of 7



### course, are formaldehyde

- free and they're made 8



### with a bio based binder. And, in fact, this 9


### building has Johns Manville in sulation in it. I 10



### made sure that my former colleagues at EPA would 11



### have [inaudible] insulation. 12


### So we certainly strongly agree with the 13



### EPA that induced energy efficiency enhancements 14


### can substantially reduce electricity usage as 15


### well as the emissions ge nerated to produce that 16


### electricity. EPA has proposed that states can 17


### increase their demand site management programs to 18


### achieve an annual savings of 1.5 percent. 19



### You've heard from Howard Geller some 20



### states

-- there are already some states that have 21



### even gone past there. But regardless of the 22

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### amount of greenhouse gas emissions to be reduced 1



### by the 111 (d) regulations, energy efficiency can 2


### be way to achieve immediate and cost effective 3


### emission reductions in the utility sector. We 4



### know that 40 percent of all energy is used in 5


### heating and cooling homes, so there are many 6


### opportunities out there for energy savings. 7


### Energy efficiency also supports economic 8


### growth. A recent study by the American Council 9


### for an Energy Efficient Economy noted all the 10



### beneficia l impacts of widely employing end

- use 11


### energy efficiency enhancements including 600,000 12


### additional jobs in 2030 and 17 billion in 13


### additional GDP by 2030. 14



### It's also

-- to understand that energy 15


### efficiency tends to be more labor intensive 16



### rather than traditi onal generation

-- renewable 17


### generation which tends to be more capital 18


### intensive so that to the extent that you deploy 19


### energy efficiency solutions, you tend to create 20


### more jobs. 21



### There's also, of course, co benefits, as 22

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### you know, from implementing energy e fficiency and 1


### Johns Manville is working with others in our 2


### industry to update a 2003 Harvard study that 3


### quantified the public health improvements of 4


### retrofitting all the under insulated homes in 5


### America to current model energy codes, including 6



### Title 24 in California. 7


### But while we agree with the EPA that 8


### energy efficiency is a method to achieve emission 9


### reductions, we do have several changes that we 10


### would like EPA to make to the final regulation. 11


### The first is that I think the change that

-- the 12



### proposal sh ould be changed to encourage early 13


### emission reductions through the early deployment 14


### of energy efficiency enhancements. The proposal 15


### as written really focuses on the compliance 16


### period from 2020 to 2030, and we feel it does not 17


### adequately credit early actio n from early energy 18


### efficiency projects. 19


### I think this may be an oversight because 20


### we heard Administrator McCarthy talk about early 21


### action and was encouraging that. 22

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### In addition, early action is more cost 1


### effective and can reduce potential adverse 2


### impacts the regulation may have on grid 3


### reliability. 4


### Second, EPA should recognize that some 5


### energy efficiency enhancements can last longer 6


### than 10 years. Passive improvements for building 7


### envelopes in homes and buildings certainly can 8



### last for the life of the bu ilding. 9


### Third, EPA should include advanced energy 10


### codes in the energy efficiency building block as 11


### an important way to achieve energy savings. We 12


### know especially out in California under Title 24 13


### that it's a very important part of the energy 14


### efficiency p rogram and is mentioned frequently in 15



### the AD

- 32 Scoping Report. 16



### And fourth, I think it would be 17


### appropriate, if possible, to specifically refer 18


### to insulation as a method to achieve energy 19


### efficiency, especially in buildings because 20



### that's where some of th e hugest opportunities 21



### are. Thank you. 22

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### MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much. 1


### And I have a quick question. Mr. Ray, 2


### you had referenced a report about 600 jobs in 3



### 2020 or 2030. If you have a copy of that report, 4


### please submit it for the record if at all 5



### pos sible. And then, also, whenever you update 6


### the 2003 Harvard study if you wanted to submit 7



### that? 8


### MR. RAY: We will absolutely do both. 9


### And through our trade association name we will be 10


### submitting detailed written comments, but I can 11



### also actually get you

-- if I can get your 12



### e

- mail, I'll just e

- mail you the link to the AC 13


### Triple U [ phonetic ] Report. It was just recently 14



### announced. 15



### And then the Harvard Study update, 16


### certainly we will

-- we will be finishing

-- we 17


### will get preliminary results from that

- - the 18



### update

-- in time to include with our detailed 19



### comments in October. 20



### MS. NOONAN: Great. October 16th. All 21


### right. Thank you both very much. 22

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### And next up we have Mark Fix and Marsha 1



### Miller. And on deck Travis Madison and Ron Lehr
, 2


### if you'd like to join us in those seats behind 3



### the speakers? 4


### Mr. Fix, would you like to start? 5



### MR. FIX: Sure. I'm Mark Fix, M

- A

- R

- K, 6



### F

- I

- X. I'm a rancher and irrigator about 20 7


### miles southwest of Miles City on the Tongue 8



### River. I'm Past Chair of the Northern Plains 9



### Resource Council and a member of the Western 10


### Organization of Resource Councils. 11


### Northern Plains is a grass root 12


### organization that was founded when coal strip 13


### mining came to Montana. Northern Plains was 14


### instrumental in pushing forward protections for 15



### land owners such as land owner consent and 16


### reclamation of strip mined areas. 17



### I'm here to thank the Environmental 18


### Protection Agency for promoting the rule that 19


### will help control carbon emissions that are 20


### affecting our lives and our planet. We, in 21


### agriculture, are the first to be affected by 22

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### climate change. In Montana in 2012 there were 1



### 1.1 million acres

-- were burned by the second 2


### largest wildfire in our state's history. 3


### Luckily, I escaped that fire. The day 4


### the fire spread it was around 106 degrees, and 5



### t he wind increased to around 60 miles an hour. 6


### Smoke was coming my direction, and I thought I 7


### might see fire at any time; but luckily the winds 8


### were not headed my way. Many of my friends and 9


### neighbors were not so fortunate and are still 10


### dealing with the i ncredible expense and work load 11


### of replacing fences, livestock, and even their 12



### homes. 13



### I know how hard this can be. I had a 14


### fire on my ranch four or five years earlier that 15


### burned about three sections of my property. 16


### The next subject I will mention I fee l 17


### will fit into the global wording category, last 18



### year we had an EF

- 1 tornado hit my ranch. The 19



### winds were in excess of 95 miles an hour and took 20



### off half of my barn roof, about a quarter of my 21



### house roof , and tipped over a new circle pivot 22

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### that I had onl y used for about two weeks. The 1



### storm was about a half a mile wide and also took 2



### down hundreds of cottonwood trees which I am 3


### still struggling to clean up. 4


### Full weather and snow hit early last 5


### winter causing many of my cows to be stressed and 6



### catch pneum onia. I lost about 10 percent of my 7


### heifer cows from sickness. The winter was long 8


### with lots of snow, and a result this spring we 9


### had lots of runoff and some of the worst ice jam 10


### flooding I've seen since we bought the ranch. 11


### Ice jams were about a half a mile, and the river 12


### came out onto my irrigating ground and totally 13



### covered a 55

- acre field. 14


### I had 50 head of heifers that were ready 15


### to have their first calf in the past year that 16


### was in the path of the flood waters. The water 17


### came up very quickly and I did not have time to 18



### get the cattle out of the pasture. I saw the 19


### water and immediately thought that I had lost all 20



### 50 head of heifers. We looked a little closer 21


### and I could see some of them trapped on a high 22

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### spot they had found. I had no way to get to them 1


### for rescue. There was water eight feet deep 2



### between the house and where the heifers were. It 3


### took me all night to get them to safety. 4



### The flood waters took out close to a mile 5


### of fences on my ranch, and I'm still trying to 6


### get them fixed. My irr igated field was covered 7


### with floating trees and ice that I needed to 8


### clean up. The same field was littered with 9



### branches last year from the tornado. 10


### Climate change affects the weather and 11


### we, in agriculture, have to deal with the weather 12



### every day. And the weather can make or break us. 13


### If we want agriculture as I know it to 14



### continue to thrive it is an economic and cultural 15


### imperative to deal with climate change. As a 16


### rural electric cooperative member and rate payer, 17


### I'd like to respond to those co

- ops that have 18



### expressed concerns about the proposed rule. 19



### These co

- ops, including my own, are 20


### living in the past and still think that the only 21


### viable source of power is coal. They are paying 22

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### the price for it now. The supplier for our 1



### copper dome tried to b uild a coal plant that 2



### proved to be an enormous boondoggle. Our power 3


### supplier made bad decisions and is currently 4


### going through bankruptcy proceedings. 5


### Renewable power is cheaper, cleaner, and 6


### provides more jobs than coal

- fired power. We 7



### need renewable s now. We know that coal is the 8


### leading source of carbon dioxide in the 9


### atmosphere, and we need a transition toward 10



### renewable sources of power; but there are reasons 11


### other than climate to shift our energy policy 12



### away from coal as well. 13


### My ranch is locate d on a potential path 14


### for a new railroad to develop a new coal mine 15


### about 50 miles away. My ranch would face 16



### condemnation were it to be built. 17


### In addition to condemning family farms 18


### and ranches, opening that mine would permanently 19


### tear up an important ag ricultural aquifer. We 20



### can and must do better. 21



### Since the mine at Otter Creek has also 22

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### been discussed as an export mine, I think it's 1


### important to note that no serious national effort 2


### to rein carbon dioxide and coal is complete 3


### without addressing coal exp orts. It makes no 4



### sense to shift coal to Asia to have the 5


### prevailing winds bring back two tons of carbon 6


### dioxide for every ton of coal we ship to them. 7


### One hundred miles away they are 8


### developing an oil field at an amazing pace in the 9



### Bakken Region of Nor th Dakota and Montana. There 10


### is natural gas that is a by

- product and is simply 11


### being flared and wasted. We should salvage all 12


### the natural gases now being wasted. Methane 13


### emissions are a greenhouse gas that must be 14



### looked at in addition to carbon dioxide

. It's 15


### critical that the BLM's proposal to limit flaring 16


### and venting of m e thane and EPA's methane 17


### pollutions standards move forward. Otherwise 18


### switching from coal to natural gas could make 19


### climate change worse, not better. 20



### Even with better controls on m ethane, 21


### though, promoting natural gas is not a good 22

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### solution to climate change. Energy efficiency 1



### and renewable energy are much better. 2


### And I'd just like to thank you for 3


### allowing us to speak and appreciate the 4


### opportunity to talk. Thank you. 5



### (Buzzer s ounded.) 6



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Thank you very 7



### much. Ms. Miller? 8


### MS. MILLER: My name is Marsha Miller. 9



### MS. ROTHERY : You need to turn it on. 10



### MS. NOONAN: Yes. Mr. Fix, could you 11


### turn your microphone off? Thank you. 12



### MS. MILLER: My name is Marsha Miller, 13



### M

- A

- R

- S

- H

- A, M

- I

- L

- L

- E

- R. And thank you very 14


### much for holding these hearings. I think it's 15


### very important to hear from the public because, 16



### after all, we are the government. 17


### I am speaking to the elephant in the 18


### room. What is preventing America which claims to 19


### be a leader among world nations from implementing 20


### the advancements? Countries in Europe have made 21


### in implementing 21st century sustainable clean 22

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### energy technology. While advancements have been 1


### made and embraced in the markets through 2



### sc ientific research in every other sector of our 3


### economy, why are we stuck on the treadmill of 4


### using coal and other fossil fuels? 5



### If we maintained that mindset for 6


### medicine, we would not be using the current 7


### lifesaving advancements that have saved so many 8



### f rom cancer, service men and women caught in land 9


### mines and so many other examples. 10


### There has been testimony from scientists 11


### and health professionals, ranchers, many 12


### environmentalists, and many other professionals 13


### about the significant health hazards of 14



### co ntinuing reliance on archaic carbon

- producing 15



### energy sources. 16


### The labor market must continually adjust 17


### and adapt to the current technological 18


### advancements in every other sector. What forces 19


### are creating such undue pressure on political 20


### will that keeps Am erica from coming into the 21st 21


### Century of using clean, sustainable energy 22

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### sources of wind, solar, and other scientific 1



### advancements? 2


### If continuing use of carbon sources of 3


### energy is hazardous to mankind's health, how can 4


### we justify this madness? 5



### MS. NOO NAN: Thank you both very much. 6



### Travis Madsen and Ron Lehr ? 7


### MR. MADSEN: Hi, I'm Travis Madsen. My 8



### last name's spelled M

- A

- D

- S

- E

- N . I am the Senior 9


### Program Manager for Global Warming Solutions at 10



### Environment America. I'm here on behalf of our 11



### 29 state organizations and our more than one 12


### million members and supporters across the 13


### country. Thanks for the opportunity to speak. 14



### We believe that the Clean Power Plan is a 15


### vital step forward, and we support the 16


### finalization of the strongest possible plan to 17


### limit climate altering carbon pollution from 18


### power plants. We truly appreciate President 19


### Obama's and EPA's leadership in putting this plan 20



### forward. 21



### I'm sure many of the other speakers today 22

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### have talked about how certain we've all become 1


### that global warmi ng is underway. There's lots of 2


### examples of the impacts that we've been facing. 3


### I've just been out on the east coast visiting 4


### some areas impacted by Hurricane Sandy, and I 5



### know that NOAA put out some research recently 6



### that shows that coastal flooding is twice as 7


### likely

-- on that scale is twice as likely now as 8


### it was in 1950 because of warming driven sea 9



### level rise. 10


### I grew up here in Colorado, and I notice 11


### every time I go into the mountains the extent of 12



### the bark beetle infestation in the forest

-- 13



### thin gs do not look the same as when I was a kid, 14


### and it's shocking. And I'm

-- and I'm convinced 15


### that unless we take urgent and aggressive action 16


### to reduce our emissions of global warming 17


### pollution, our children are going to be worse 18



### off. 19



### So, as the world's largest economy and 20


### the nation that's responsible for more of the 21


### carbon pollution in the atmosphere than any other 22

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### country and also a center for clean energy 1


### technology and research, we feel that the United 2


### States has a responsibility to lead the world in 3


### tackling the problem of global warming. 4


### And to do our part to limit world 5


### temperature increase to no more than 2 degrees 6



### Celsius, that means the United States must reduce 7


### its emission of global warming pollution by at 8


### least 80 percent by mid century. 9



### Po wer plants are the single largest 10


### source of U.S. carbon pollution. We put out a 11


### report last year called America's Dirtiest Power 12


### Plants that counted up the 50 dirtiest plants in 13


### the United States, and they had more carbon 14


### pollution each year than all but five other 15



### countries. 16


### So while we must move quickly to 17


### eliminate carbon pollution from all sources, 18


### power plants are one of our best opportunities to 19


### make the rapid and deep reductions in emissions 20


### that we need. Fortunately, we have solutions to 21



### global w arming at our fingertips. We have the 22

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### technology to dramatically reduce emissions of 1


### carbon dioxide and other pollutants by using 2


### energy more efficiently and generating more of 3


### our power from truly clean sources like the wind 4



### and the sun. 5



### Environment Ame rica applauds the EPA for 6


### responding to the urgent need to protect public 7


### health and our children's future by reining in 8


### unlimited carbon pollution from power plants 9


### through the Clean Power Plan. But given the 10



### scope of the problem and the urgent need to a ct, 11



### we can and must do better. 12


### The most important thing that EPA could 13


### do to improve the Clean Power Plan is to 14


### strengthen the targets for reducing emissions. 15


### EPA should adjust the formulas for setting these 16



### targets so that they more fully capture the va st 17


### potential for clean energy resources like wind, 18


### solar, and energy efficiency to reduce the carbon 19


### emissions of the U.S. powerfully. 20


### Clean energy, efficiency, and renewables 21



### are the best tools we have available to reduce 22

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### pollution from fossil fuels. An d every state in 1


### the country has much more potential to capture 2



### clean energy resources at low cost. 3



### EPA should adopt a better approach to 4


### estimating the growth potential for renewable 5



### energy and adopt stronger

-- stronger benchmarks 6



### that more accurately r eflect that potential. 7


### You should ground this assessment based 8


### not on what some states have already accomplished 9


### but instead, what states can do beyond what 10



### they're already done. 11


### So, for example, the National Renewable 12



### Energy Laboratory recently put out a study that 13


### found that renewable energy technologies that we 14


### have available now could supply 80 percent of the 15


### United States' electricity in 2050 while meeting 16


### a demand for power at every hour of the day in 17


### every region of the country throughout the whole 18



### year. 19



### Second, EPA should increase the 20


### contribution of energy efficiency to the overall 21


### target with more ambitious assessments of what is 22

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### possible. So, for example, the American Council 1


### for an Energy Efficient Economy estimates that by 2


### mid century we cou ld reduce our overall energy 3


### consumption by 40 to 60 percent even as our 4


### economy continues to grow. 5


### Making the investments to do that would 6


### dramatically reduce carbon pollution. And they'd 7


### also create 2 million jobs and save consumers an 8


### average of $400 billion a year. 9


### So by increasing the role of these clean 10


### energy technologies and the formulas that 11


### established state targets within the Clean Power 12


### Plan we believe that EPA could impact

-- 13



### (Buzzer sounded.) 14



### MR. MADSEN:

-- reduce the impact of the 15



### propo sal such that it produces emissions 35 to 40 16



### percent below 2005 levels by 2020

-- or 2030. 17


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 18



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Lehr ? 19


### MR. LEHR: Good morning. My name is Ron 20



### Lehr

-- R

- O

- N, L

- E

- H

- R. I'm an attorney in 21



### En glewood, Colorado. Previously I've served as 22

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### Commissioner and Chairman of the Colorado Public 1



### Utilities Commission and Commissioner and 2



### President of the Denver Water Board

-- Water 3


### Commission. So I have a long career, about 45 4


### years, of looking at the ec onomics of utility 5


### investment and the modeling that supports those 6



### economic choices. 7


### I want to testify in support of EPA 8


### strengthening its carbon reduction requirements 9


### for the nation and for Colorado this morning. I 10



### think there are three reasons for th at. 11


### One is early action is better than later. 12



### Second one are the reasons about energy 13


### efficiency on which Howard Geller just gave his 14


### testimony. The third is a remarkable recent 15


### development here in Colorado concerning renewable 16



### energy where good resul ts

-- American place good 17


### results show that fossil fuel can be replaced 18


### with renewable energy at a savings to consumers. 19


### In 2011 Public Service Company of 20


### Colorado filed its Energy and Resource Plan for 21


### acquisition of resources in a period following 22

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### 2016

-- 2016 and 2018, that period

-- by putting 1



### on the table at the Public Utilities Commission 2


### some requests for proposals and supporting 3


### materials that they wanted the Commission to 4



### allow them to issue to the market. 5



### The Commission took a look at those. 6



### Th ey approved a set of RFPs and a series of 7


### decisions about how they would be judged to get a 8


### portfolio of resources for those future needs. 9


### The Public Service Company put the RFP out. 10



### There were responses from 6,200 megawatts of 11



### bids. That's a lot of bid s on a system that 12



### peaks at about 7,700 megawatts. 13


### So, bidders were confident that they 14


### could get a good look by that utility company 15



### because over the last 25 years we've worked hard 16


### in Colorado to discipline the monopsony behavior 17



### of the utility. A mono psony is a single buyer in 18


### the market, and it's one of the biggest barriers 19


### that we have for bringing clean resources into 20


### utility systems. 21



### Now here in Colorado there's an 22

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### independent evaluator. The utility has tried all 1


### kinds of things to have its own w ay with the 2


### bids, but we've got a system now where it's 3


### transparent and the bidders have confidence. 4


### So, 6,200 megawatts of bids; Public 5


### Service Company looked through those; they 6


### brought back a portfolio of resources that would 7



### meet the future needs. An d in those resources 8


### they found 450 megawatts of wind and 170 9


### megawatts of solar photovoltaics that were lower 10



### than system average cost. 11



### So what that means is if you took all the 12


### stuff that public service companies are running 13


### to turn the lights on in thi s room today and take 14


### the average of all those costs, the new wind and 15


### solar were coming in below the average system 16



### cost. That means that the stuff that they have 17


### that's above average system cost is out of the 18


### money. We can replace that with new clean s tuff 19



### and consumers can save money. 20


### I would say that this is exactly the 21


### result that we intended when we passed

-- when we 22

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### put on the ballot and passed Amendment 37 in 1


### 2004, just 10 years ago. We wanted to get solar 2


### and wind up. We wanted to get them goi ng, and we 3


### wanted to bring their costs down. 4



### The results of this bid

-- a marketplace 5


### test of the cost of renewable energy supervised 6


### by a public record at the Public Utilities 7



### Commission show that new wind and solar come in 8



### at lower than system average c osts here in 9


### Colorado. And I hold for your consideration that 10



### if we can do it here, it can be done elsewhere as 11



### well. 12



### The costs of renewable energy are 13


### dropping, as you know. The cost for fossil fuel 14


### are rising, as you know. These two lines have 15



### inters ected here in Colorado in a very important 16


### way. And this means we can now proceed more 17


### quickly than you are suggesting in your proposed 18



### rule. 19


### I have in my written remarks documented 20



### the decision of the Commission which was taken on 21



### December 20th of last year as well as some 22

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### additional work that's been done in the west that 1



### supports these outcomes. So I'd be happy to 2


### submit that to you. 3


### Let me take just a moment to suggest to 4



### you that there's another reason we need to move 5


### quickly. In 1996 an 11,000

- acr e forest fire in 6



### the mount ains west of Denver burned the S outh 7



### P lat te D rainage S ystem that Denver uses to supply 8



### most of its water. The Water Board sat on the 9


### edges of our seats while the Foothills Treatment 10


### Plant which served 70 percent of the metro area 's 11



### treated water was down. It was wrecked. It was 12



### out of service. 13


### At the time the second largest customer 14



### of the Denver Water System was one coal

- fired 15


### power plant. We faced some very serious issues 16


### there that the water department is now a prime 17



### prop onent of climate action and that is another 18



### reason

-- 19



### (Buzzer sounded.) 20



### MR. LEHR:

-- we need to move more 21


### quickly than what you suggested. 22

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### So, thanks very much for what you're 1


### doing here and hope you'll take my suggestion and 2


### move it up. 3



### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Great. And with that 4



### I think I'd like to take a 10

- minute break to

-- 5



### we'll have a 10

- minute break, so we will 6



### reconvene at 12:15. 7



### (Brief recess.) 8


### MS. NOONAN: Okay. I would like to 9


### welcome everybody back. Could Allison Fisher and 10



### Alex Burke be our next folks. And then Hubert B. 11


### Two Leggins and Megan Gilman, if you'd like to 12


### join us at the reserved seats behind the 13


### speaker's table? And then also Allison Fisher 14


### and Kelly Sloan, if you'd also like to take seats 15


### behind the speaker's table? 16



### MS. F ISHER: I’m Allison Fisher. 17


### MS. NOONAN: Oh, you are here twice. 18



### MS. FISHER: Yeah. 19



### MS. NOONAN: You are both 38 and 42. 20


### MS. FISHER: I can go twice. I can

-- if 21


### you wanted to give me 10 minutes, I

-- 22

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### MS. NOONAN: Nah. 1


### MS. FISHER: I'll still say ex actly the 2


### same thing. 3


### MS. NOONAN: Okay. All right. Well, 4


### thank you very much. And perhaps you would like 5



### to start? 6



### MS. FISHER: Sure. You need me to spell 7


### my name? So it's Fisher. It's F

- I

- S

- H

- E

- R. 8


### Thank you. Yes, my name is Allison Fisher. I'm 9


### the Outreach Director for Public Citizen's Energy 10


### and Climate Program. Public Citizen is a 11



### national non

- profit organization that's been 12


### advocating for consumers for more than 40 years. 13



### We have 300,000 members and supporters 14


### across the country, approxima tely 2,000 of which 15


### reside right here in Colorado. 16



### And I'm here today to represent those 17



### folks

-- sorry

-- to represent those folks and 18


### reflect the objectives of Public Citizen's Energy 19


### which is the advocacy of clean, safe, and 20


### affordable energy for Ameri can consumers. 21


### I'd like to start by thanking the EPA for 22

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### the opportunity to comment on the Agency's 1



### proposed Clean Power Plan, and, of course, due to 2


### the time restrictions today, I'm just going to 3


### touch on a few key points, but Public Citizen 4



### will be subm itting our full technical comments 5



### this fall. 6


### So first, I'd like to say that Public 7


### Citizens strongly supports the regulation of 8


### carbon emissions from our power sector and the 9


### regulations around how we extract, produce, and 10



### consume energy are often passed by the industries 11


### in exercise and burdensome bureaucracy. The 12


### reality is safeguards in our energy sector 13


### protect our workers and communities, benefit our 14


### economy, and minimize the impact on our 15



### environment and natural resources. 16


### It is actually the lack of adequate 17


### regulations or the violation of existing 18


### safeguards that too often have resulted in 19



### contamination of our air, land, and water. And 20


### it is the lack of limitations end up in carbon 21


### pollution into our atmosphere to add to the 22

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### current climate chang e crisis. 1



### So to this end Public Citizen would 2


### propose that the science demands and our 3


### technological advancements allow a more 4


### aggressive plan than what the agency has put 5



### forward to address the largest source of U.S. 6



### climate

- altering pollution. And we b elieve that 7


### more aggressive reduction targets if met through 8


### renewable energy technologies, energy efficiency, 9


### and properly structured mechanisms to put a price 10


### on carbon pollution will lead to electricity

-- 11



### I'm sorry

-- will lead to lower electricity bil ls 12


### in the long term and not to the industry's 13


### doomsday scenarios that always accompany 14


### pollution regulations but which never come to 15



### pass. 16



### In fact, cost estimates for clean air 17


### regulations have historically been higher than 18



### the actual program costs. And in this case the 19


### flexibility that the Agency has built into the 20


### Clean Power Plan will allow states to design and 21


### implement compliant strategies that fully offset 22

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### costs to consumers. 1


### Safe plans that drive utility and 2


### consumer investments in energy efficien cy demand 3


### side management and distributed renewable energy 4


### technologies that lower power demand will lower 5


### compliance costs and produce added benefits for 6


### electricity consumers because the

-- just put it 7


### simply, reducing consumption lowers bills. And 8



### lowe r total demand will reduce the price of power 9


### for all electricity consumers whether those users 10


### invested in energy efficiency or not. 11


### So we strongly urge the EPA to increase 12


### its efficiency targets and renewable projections 13


### and urge states to prioritize th ese compliance 14



### methods. 15


### Conversely, we feel that reduction 16


### targets should not be met through increased 17



### dependency of natural gas or other dangerous and 18


### costly sources like nuclear power. And Public 19



### Citizen has done a lot of work on nuclear 20


### regulations an d will be dedicating a substantial 21


### portion of our technical comments to the nuclear 22

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### provisions in the Plan. 1


### Lastly, while we recognize that the 2


### proposal is designed to address carbon emissions 3


### within the power sector, we strongly urge the EPA 4



### to immediate ly draft rules that address methane. 5



### It's an extremely dangerous and potent greenhouse 6



### gas

-- greenhouse gas, and we really need a 7


### comprehensive plan if we're going to avert 8


### catastrophic climate change. 9



### And thank you guys for all your work and 10



### -- and fo r the opportunity to speak with you 11



### today. 12



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Burke? Ms. 13


### Fisher, if you could turn yours off? 14



### MS. FISHER: Sure. 15



### MS. NOONAN: And then

-- 16



### MR. BURKE: It's Alex Burke, A

- L

- E

- X, 17



### B

- U

- R

- K

- E. 18


### So, hi, my name's Alex Burke, and I' m a 19


### Denver resident, a student at the University of 20



### Denver, and a volunteer with the Sierra Club. 21



### First and foremost I would like to start 22

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### by taking a moment to thank the Environmental 1


### Protection Agency and every individual within the 2


### agency who has dedic ated their time and effort to 3


### produce this national environmental policy. 4



### The time for the United States to take 5


### serious action on climate change has arrived. 6


### And I'm glad that the Obama administration has 7


### made this plan a priority. 8


### Additionally, I woul d like to thank all 9


### of the public supporters who took time out of 10



### their week to come to Denver and attend this 11


### hearing and the related events. 12


### We've reached a point in time where the 13


### effects of climate change have become both 14


### recognizable and measurable. For the past 15


### several years here in Colorado we have felt the 16


### impacts of climate change in the form of severe 17


### drought, extreme flooding, and devastating forest 18



### fires. In 2011 and 2012 alone these extreme 19


### results of climate change cost the State of 20



### Colorad o over $600 million in federal disaster 21



### aid. 22

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### These impacts are not by any means 1


### limited to our state alone. Over the past 2


### century the average temperature in nearly every 3


### state in the U.S. has steadily increased. 4


### Additionally, 7 of the 10 warmest years o n record 5



### have occurred past 1998. These startling figures 6


### do not merely represent isolated climatological 7


### anomalies. They represent a fierce pattern of 8


### sustained climate change that shows no sign of 9


### stopping. 10


### According to the National Climate 11



### Assessment released earlier this year, Colorado 12



### and the southwest can expect even more heat 13


### waves, more extreme and sustained droughts, and 14


### declining air and water quality in the decades to 15


### come. The consequences of these climate 16


### disruptions will affect the environ ment, the 17


### economy, and the health of our posterity. 18


### The impacts of climate change on public 19


### health are perhaps more startling than the 20


### environmental consequences alone. According to 21


### the Clean Air Task Force, air pollution from coal 22

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### fired power plants in Colorado alone contributes 1



### to 53 deaths, 81 heart attacks, and over 1,000 2


### asthma attacks every year. These impacts add up 3


### to over $400,000 in annual health costs. 4



### Other climate

- related health effects, 5


### including those related to heat stress, air 6


### polluti on, and extreme weather events will have 7


### the most severe impact on children, the elderly, 8


### and the poor. These extreme costs to public 9


### health, our environment, and our economy will 10


### continue to grow unless we act now. 11



### The Clean Power Plan proposed by the E PA 12



### offers a non

- destructive set of flexible 13


### approaches for states to reduce their carbon 14


### pollution levels. I'm dumbfounded by the fact 15


### that there are limits already in place at power 16


### plants for pollutants such as arsenic and 17



### mercury, yet there's currently no national limit 18


### for carbon pollution which accounts for 82 19


### percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. 20


### Nationwide the Clean Power Plan will help 21


### cut these carbon emissions from the power sector 22

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### by 30 percent from our 2005 levels. The Clean 1



### Power Pla n's especially valuable, and that will 2


### not produce disruptive effects in the power 3


### sector because it mainly reinforces trends that 4



### many states have already adopted. 5


### Additionally, the plan is flexible in 6


### that it offers a set of guidelines that allows 7



### state s to meet the national goal through means 8



### that best suit them. 9


### For the majority of my life it has been 10


### acceptable to deny the realities of climate 11


### change despite the evidence to the contrary. The 12


### time has come for that to change. My generation 13



### will no longer stand by and accept being crippled 14


### by the inaction of earlier generations. As a 15


### young American, I want to ensure that my children 16


### and eventually their children have the right to 17


### clean air and a healthy future. 18


### Thank you for this opportunity to testify 19


### and for taking this very important step forward 20


### in the fight against climate change. 21



### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. Mr. Two 22

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### Leggins and Megan Gilman, please? 1


### Ms. Gilman, do you

-- do you want to 2



### start? 3



### MS. GILMAN: Sure. 4



### MS. NOONAN: You're on

. 5


### MS. GILMAN: All right. My name is Megan 6



### Gilman, and I'm the Vice

- President of Board of 7


### Directors of Holy Cross Energy. My name is M

- E

8



### G

- A

- N, G

- I

- L

- M

- A

- N. Holy Cross Energy is an 9


### electric cooperative which is a member

- owned not

10



### for

- profit electric co mpany. We serve the areas 11


### of Vail and Aspen, Colorado, and all the areas in 12



### between. 13


### Guided by our member owners environmental 14



### goals and concerns, Holy Cross Energy has taken a 15


### proactive approach to carbon reduction. Climate 16


### change is a challenge not ea sily resolved, but we 17


### recognize that electric utilities are major 18


### stakeholders in solving this issue as power 19


### plants are the largest source of carbon pollution 20



### in the U.S. 21


### We are committed to remain proactive, 22

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### engaged, and innovative using the special ski lls 1


### and knowledge of the industry to continue to 2


### provide reliable, cost effective electrical 3


### services while tackling this significant 4


### environmental challenge. This includes a sincere 5


### effort to move to lower carbon intensity with 6


### measureable and timely goa ls for our actions. 7


### Holy Cross Energy voluntarily set an 8


### internal goal of 20 percent renewable energy by 9


### 2015 which we already surpassed this year ahead 10


### of schedule. Continuing on our path to cleaner 11


### energy sources, the Board of Directors set two 12



### additio nal renewable energy goals: 30 percent by 13



### 2020 and 35 percent by 2025. 14


### Given Holy Cross Energy's existing 15


### progress and stated goals, we expect to deliver 16



### carbon reductions in line with those identified 17



### in the EPA's Clean Power Plan within the 18


### designated timeline. 19


### While we understand there are significant 20


### differences between utilities and regions, 21


### climate change is not a local issue. We feel it 22

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### is in the best, long

- term interest of our member 1


### owners to support an overall reduction in carbon 2



### emissions whi ch can also result in a more 3


### diversified resilient power supply. 4



### Holy Cross Energy looks forward to 5


### continued involvement in a positive dialog as an 6


### important technical partner, legislative 7


### stakeholder, and democratically representative 8


### organization respo nsible for the best interests 9



### of our member owners. 10


### As part of this involvement we want to 11


### ensure that the EPA has proper accounting and 12


### incentives in place in a few key areas. None of 13


### these is intended to in any weaken the rule but 14



### to ensure that it can be as effective as possible 15


### in limiting the power industry's impact on 16


### climate change and to point out projects that are 17


### innovative and can result in outside impact that 18



### may not be properly accounted for. 19


### The first is to discuss power production 20



### through combusting and vented methane. Methane 21


### is an incredibly harmful greenhouse gas with 22

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### significantly more impact than the carbon dioxide 1


### we can turn it into. Methane is naturally vented 2


### from coal mines, so we have proactively partnered 3



### with an active coal m ine in western Colorado to 4



### combust this

-- the venting methane and purchase 5


### the resulting energy. We did so to support this 6


### outstanding project and to limit our greenhouse 7


### gas emissions. 8



### We feel the need to see more innovative 9


### and groundbreaking projects like this one; 10



### however, we are a bit concerned that since we 11


### installed this project after 2012, this could 12



### count as a carbon increase for us rather than the 13


### major decrease in greenhouse gas emissions that 14


### it will actually have. We fear that this could 15



### l imit how many other utilities and investors take 16


### on projects of this sort, and we wouldn't want to 17



### see that happen. 18



### Biomass is a similar situation. I urge 19


### you to consider the life cycle greenhouse gas 20


### contributions, especially considering the massive 21



### wil dfire risk that we face here in Colorado, to 22

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### support woody biomass projects such like one we 1


### also have in western Colorado which helps to 2


### create renewable energy and also increase our 3


### forest health by taking down some of our 4



### dangerous and dead trees that w e have standing. 5


### The last bit of input is to ensure your 6


### properly accounting for early action. Ensure 7


### that those of us who have taken a leadership role 8



### and have broken new ground can have some 9


### accounting for these projects occurring before 10



### 2012 so long a s they actually result in a 11


### reduction in our energy intensity

-- our carbon 12


### intensity since 2005. 13


### Again, I appreciate your time, and we 14


### feel that our company's environmental goals and 15


### those of our members are very well aligned with 16



### an overall reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, 17



### and we wholeheartedly look forward to 18


### participating

-- 19



### (Buzzer sounded.) 20



### MS. GILMAN:

-- to make the rule as 21


### effective and impactful as possible. 22

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### MR. TWO LEGGINS : Hello, my name is 1



### Hubert Two Leggins , H

- U

- B

- E

- R

- T, T

- W

- O

- L

- E

- G

- G

- I

2



### N

- S ; and I am a member of the Crow Tribe of 3



### Montana. I am currently a Board member of the 4



### Medicine Wheel Alliance and also I am a 5



### historian for our tribe, and also the cultural 6



### Director, and the Tribal Historical Preservation 7



### Officer, and our Renew able Resource Co

- op 8


### Supervisor for the tribe. And so I have a lot of 9



### concerns of the mercury levels that we have on 10



### our

-- on our land. I thought I was living in a 11


### pristine area, but it isn't so. 12


### I just want to make a little bit of some 13



### research that wa s done, some studies, and it says 14


### that we have several reasons for being concerned 15


### about mercury contamination of local fish. And a 16


### major

-- there's been a major survey of fish 17



### merc ury levels conducted by the EPA, the Walleye 18


### (phonetic) and Big Horn Reser voir on the 19


### reservation had some of the highest levels in the 20



### country. 21


### The coal burning power plants in nearby 22

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### Colstrip is the major source of atmospheric 1


### mercury pollution in the State of Montana. And 2


### additional power plants are located in Billings 3



### and Hardin, Montana. Atmospheric imposition of 4



### mercury to land and water surfaces lead to 5



### condensation of elemental mercury and to methyl 6



### mercury in aquatic ecosystems. 7



### Methyl mercury is biomagnified up the 8


### aquatic food chain by a factor of 10 million in 9



### top predators

-- humans, birds, and mammals 10


### eating contaminated fish have the highest level 11


### of exposure in the U.S. Eighty percent of women 12



### of child

- bearing age are considered to be at risk 13


### due to high blood levels. 410,000 children per 14



### year are exposed to levels in womb, associated 15


### with neurological impairment. 16



### And so as a historian and tribal 17


### historical preservation officer, our history is 18



### that we

-- you are the stewards of this land and 19


### this country. And at that time before 1492 a lot 20



### of shifts have oc curred, paradigm shifts have 21



### occurred to where there are losses, corrosion, 22

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### and those are the chapters of our history. 1


### And so thinking that you can go and fish 2



### and eat the fish that I catch, I didn't know that 3


### they were contaminated. And so the things th at 4


### I’m concerned about is the young ones, the ones 5


### that are unborn. There's going to be effects 6


### that's going to be happening because there's no 7


### warning signs or anything like that on our 8



### R eservation

. 9


### And the things that are important to us 10



### is that the ol d ones, the ones that have passed 11


### down have left the oral history and the 12


### traditional knowledge is that we respect the 13


### water, the air, the ground, the earth, the soil, 14



### and fire because we need those to survive. We 15



### need those to live, but on the other side of the 16



### coin we can die from them. 17


### And the old ones said protect the water, 18



### the air, the land, and the fire. We fear them 19



### but we need them to live. And so now with all 20


### the shifts that have occurred through today I see 21


### that we're getting earthquakes, a c ombination of 22

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### air and water, you know, the devastations that 1



### tsunamis and forest fires with air and fire, and 2


### the land, we're disturbing the land and we're 3


### polluting them

-- 4



### (Buzzer sounded.) 5



### MR. TWO LEGGINS:

-- and that's why we 6


### are getting a lot of re percussions that we are 7


### seeing now in the news. And the older ones know, 8



### and I

-- I've got a lot more to say, but I guess 9


### I'll quit there. 10



### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Well, thank you, and 11


### please submit any additional comments for the 12



### record. Thank you. Thank y ou both. 13


### All right. And the last speaker before 14


### the lunch break is going to be Kelly Sloan. 15


### MR. SLOAN: Thank you. My name is Kelly 16



### Sloan, S

- L

- O

- A

- N, of Grand Junction. I'm 17


### speaking on behalf of the Associated Governments 18



### of Northwest Colorado. 19



### First , I should like to thank you for the 20


### opportunity to appear before you today and to 21



### relay some of the concerns of the people of 22

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### northwest Colorado and their elected and local 1



### county governments. We are, of course, 2


### disappointed that your agency elected not to hold 3


### this hearing in western Colorado nearer to the 4


### people who will be most impacted by your decision 5


### and where you can see the reality which is the 6


### cleanliness and safety of coal

- fired electrical 7


### generation rather than the hyperbole and alarmism 8



### of urb an based special interest groups. 9



### Nevertheless, we welcome the chance to let the 10


### majority's voice be heard among the chatter. 11


### Our primary concerns center on the 12


### devastating economic impacts that ill

- conceived, 13


### agenda driven, and insufficiently informed 14


### federal regulations will have on our local 15



### communities. 16


### It is clear that the goal of this plan is 17


### to eliminate or at least substantially curtail 18


### electrical production from coal. Our region is 19


### heavily economically dependent on coal mining, 20



### and these ar bitrary standards will be ruinous to 21


### families who rely on power's clean coal to pay 22

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### for mortgages, rent, food, medical bills, 1


### children's educations. It is these people

-- 2


### parents, workers, small business owners, farmers, 3



### and ranchers who will be the victi ms of this 4



### proposal. 5


### This plan is an attempt to engineer a 6


### generical future where energy can be produced 7



### without fossil fuels based on a preconceived 8


### notion of what fossil fuel generation looks like. 9


### And unfortunately, science and reality do not 10



### bend to sheer political will. Wind, solar, and 11


### other renewables certainly have their place, but 12


### by their very nature they cannot make up more 13



### than

-- by the most educated estimates

-- roughly 14


### 20 percent of a given grid. 15


### The exception, of course, is large scale 16



### h ydro power like that seen in the Pacific 17


### Northwest, but here in Colorado while hydro power 18


### is certainly underutilized, the capacity for that 19


### level of production does not exist either. 20


### According to the Energy Information 21


### Administration, wind and solar only made up about 22

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### 3.5 percent of total electrical generation in the 1


### United States in 2012 despite receiving billions 2



### of dollars in subsidies and several state

- level 3


### attempts at imposing artificial renewable 4



### standards. 5



### The reasons that wind and solar are not 6


### the silver bullets that some would try to claim 7


### is because, A, they're intermittent , requiring 8


### expensive back

- up generation in order to 9


### adequately respond to fluctuations in demand; B, 10


### there does not exist at this time any way to 11


### store solar or wind energy , and there are no 12


### practical technologies on the horizon; and C, 13


### because their generators must be located where 14



### the resource

-- the Devil's Horn wind resources 15


### are located as opposed to the best location to 16


### put a generator, and that necessarily translates 17


### to higher transmission costs. 18


### The EPA's plan is a solution in search of 19


### a problem, and it's looking in the wrong place. 20



### Colorado's clean low sulfur, low mercury, low ash 21


### coal is not a major contributor to pollution. In 22

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### fact, most, if not all American co al

- fired 1


### generators and those of other western nations, 2


### including Germany, who gets most of their 3


### electrical production from coal generation, all 4


### in play technologies and techniques already more 5


### than sufficiently reduce or limit emissions. 6



### Carbon dioxide emissions from U.S. coal 7



### amount to only about 3 percent of the global 8


### total. And, again, that is from the Energy 9


### Information Administration. If the EPA truly 10


### aims to do something about global pollution, the 11


### problem is not with the United States; it's in 12


### places like India and China where in Beijing the 13


### air is so bad that sunrises can only be seen if 14


### they're broadcast on electrical billboards. I 15


### assure you that the sunrises are perfectly 16


### visible in Cray, Colorado. 17


### A more prudent federal policy for 18


### polluti on control would perhaps involve 19


### facilitating exports of Colorado's clean coal to 20


### nations such as this to replace the dirtier forms 21


### that they are currently using. 22

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### Proponents of your plan speak of a 1


### hypothetical tragedy, that being the impacts of 2



### climate change. This plan would bring about a 3


### very real tragedy. That's the economic 4


### dislocation of hundreds of middle and working 5



### class families and, in fact, of entire towns and 6



### counties. 7


### The increase in energy costs this planet 8



### will

-- not may but will brin g about

-- will have 9


### a damning affect on the overall economy beyond 10


### just the regions like ours that will face gravely 11


### immediate, intermediate, and long

- term prospects. 12


### And these higher energy costs will most directly 13


### impact those who can least afford it. 14


### Coal, natural gas, solar, hydro, wind, 15


### biomass, even nuclear power all play a part in 16


### comprising the overall energy portfolio of our 17



### state, but we must be allowed to compete openly 18



### in a free market. 19


### Industry favoritism and economic 20


### micromanagement by fede ral agencies such as yours 21



### never end well, and it will be rural middle class 22

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### Americans who will suffer the most initially and 1


### the rest of the country in due course. 2


### And I leave you with this: Keep in mind 3


### that changing the input fuel of a plant in, say, 4


### the middle of Denver, not that big a deal. The 5


### sun will come up the next morning economically 6


### speaking. Do the same thing in Cray, Colorado or 7


### Hayden, Colorado, and the sun isn't coming up the 8


### next morning. Thank you very much. 9



### MS. NOONAN: I do have o ne last speaker. 10


### We do have one last speaker before the quick 11


### break. Mary Parker, here in the room? 12


### MS. PARKER: Hello. It's working, I 13



### guess? 14



### MS. NOONAN: Push your button. Could you 15


### turn it on? Thank you. 16



### MS. PARKER: Thank you. My name's Mary 17



### P arker. I live in Littleton, Colorado, and I 18


### thank you for the opportunity to speak here 19



### toda y. I am a small business owner, so I am 20


### concerned and interested in the economy and the 21


### private sector. 22

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### I'm also a candidate for the Colorado 1



### House of Representa tives, so I appreciate what 2


### the public sector can do and what 3


### responsibilities the public sector has for the 4



### health, and the safety, and the welfare of the 5



### citizens. 6



### But today I am here as a mother. I'm 7


### here with the Colorado Moms Know Best group. I 8



### am the mother of four daughters and six 9


### grandchildren. My grandchildren range in age 10


### from 18 years old, just graduating from high 11


### school, to 3 months old, so still developing a 12


### personality. 13


### And even though I've reached this stage 14


### in my life where I have six grandchildren, I 15


### still remember the day I brought my oldest 16


### daughter home from the hospital. I will never 17


### forget the fears of a new mom not even knowing 18



### what to do when the baby starts to cry, whether 19



### they are hungry, whether they're cold, whether 20



### they'r e in pain. And it was very scary, and I 21


### felt totally incompetent as a new mother. 22

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### And I thought as the years went on I 1


### would get better at it

-- I did

-- and that I 2


### would have less fear for my children and that all 3


### I needed to do was, you know, that litt le 4


### checklist when they are 21 and they get out of 5


### the house and they're on their own, and they were 6



### educated, and they were competent, and capable, 7


### and responsible. And I thought that's when 8


### parenting ended, but I was wrong because it never 9



### ends. And I h ave concern about my children and 10


### their future just in an economic sense and in 11


### opportunities that I think I had and I'm not sure 12



### they had. 13


### And I also am very worried about my 14


### grandchildren because when you do get older, you 15


### have a wider range of experien ce, and you get to 16


### look back and remember what it was like when you 17


### were a child and the things that you thought were 18



### safe that weren't safe. My parents smoked an 19



### awful lot. I remember

-- you know, they have 20


### advertisements of 9 out of 10 doctors prefer X 21


### brand of cigarette or something. And today, you 22

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### know, we'd be horrified to think that any doctor 1


### would prefer or recommend a brand of cigarettes. 2


### So, I know from experience that things 3


### that look like they're okay sometimes turn out to 4



### not be okay and th at it's important to take 5


### action the minute you see that there is a problem 6



### or a concern. 7


### I'd also like to say that in my 8


### experience talking to neighbors and in the 9



### activities I've had as a candidate for office, I 10


### often hear people talk about their concer ns about 11


### the economy and jobs. I hear them talk about the 12



### national debt and the deficit and how can we 13


### leave our children with this great burden, this 14


### great financial burden. Well, I think that is 15


### true. That is something we need to address, but 16



### I hate t o see us sacrifice things like our planet 17



### and our clean air, and our clean water because it 18


### might cost too much. There is no price that you 19


### can put on it. As they say, our environment, our 20


### world is priceless. 21


### So, I don't have any statistics here. 22

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### I'm n ot an expert on this. I appreciate all the 1


### testimony that's already happened and what

-- 2


### what you will be hearing. I am so thrilled to be 3


### living in Colorado because it's got beautiful, 4



### wonderful natural resources. It's where

-- I'm 5



### happy to say

-- all m y children and all my 6


### grandchildren live within 30 miles of Denver. So 7


### we're very much invested in the future of our 8



### state and of our country, and I applaud the 9


### efforts that you are making here today to go 10


### ahead and forge a path to clean air, clean 11



### health , and clean planet. So thank you very 12



### much. 13


### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Okay. With that 14


### we're going to take a break until about 10 after 15


### 1:00. And then we will return and a new panel 16


### will be here listening, and we'll be back on. 17



### Thank you. 18


### And I just wa nt to make sure no one in 19


### the room thinks they were planning to speak at 20



### this time? 21



### (No response.) 22

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### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you. 1



### (Brief recess.) 2



### MS. MORALES : Good afternoon, everybody. 3



### Welcome back to the afternoon session here after 4



### our break fro m the morning session. 5


### My name is Monica Morales. I am one of 6


### the Chairs of today's public hearing. If you've 7


### been attending some of the morning sessions, 8


### you'll notice we've changed out the panel for the 9



### afternoon. 10


### I thank everybody for coming today. 11


### Joining me on the panel today on my left is Colin 12


### Boswell. He's from EPA's office of Air Quality 13


### Planning and Standards in Research Triangle Park, 14



### North Carolina. 15


### And on my right is David Risley. He's 16



### fro m our Office of Atmospheric Programs in 17


### Washing ton, D.C. 18


### So you've got a good representation of 19



### EPA across the country. 20


### So we're here today to listen to your 21



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 22

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### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 1



### of these proposed rules on June 2nd of 2014. 2



### Power plants are the largest sources of 3


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 4



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 5



### emissions. 6


### The first rule is EPA's Proposed Clean 7


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 8


### proposal consists of two m ain parts: state 9


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 10


### power plants and guidelines to help states 11


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 12


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 13


### determining how to meet these goals. States will 14



### choose what g oes into their plan that show how 15


### they will achieve their yearly reductions so they 16


### can meet their goals by 2030. 17


### The second rule that EPA proposed is to 18



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 19



### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 20



### set e mission limits for two groups of power 21


### plants: those that make physical or operational 22

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### changes that increase the plant's maximum 1


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 2



### that replace components to such an extent that 3



### the new components exceed 50 perc ent of the 4


### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 5


### facility. 6


### If any of you would like more details of 7


### either of these proposed rules, there were fact 8


### sheets available near the registration desk when 9


### you came in. 10


### Today's hearing is one of four public 11



### h earings across the country this week on the two 12


### proposed rules. If you were here this morning, 13


### as you've seen we've had a tremendous interest in 14


### each of the hearings and would like to thank all 15


### of you for taking time out of your day to join us 16



### and share y our comments. 17


### We do have a significant number or people 18


### signed up today and want to be able to hear from 19


### everybody, so before we get started, I just want 20


### to go over a few of the housekeeping items and 21


### ground rules so that this afternoon's session 22

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### will run smoothly. 1



### So please make sure that you've at least 2


### registered at the registration desk even if 3


### you're not planning to speak today. If you did 4


### sign up to speak and you haven't told anybody 5



### you're here, please step back out to the 6


### registration desk and le t the EPA staff her know 7


### you have arrived so you can get your name on the 8


### list and call your name when it's time for you to 9



### come up and speak. 10


### If you are going to speak, you were given 11


### a room letter when you checked in, either an A or 12



### a B. This is Room A . Room B is around the 13


### corner and down the hall a little ways. So 14


### please make sure you're in the correct room. 15


### If you're not speaking this afternoon

-- 16


### no, I skipped this one. Sorry. 17


### The room's not getting crowded. It was a 18



### little bit crowded this mo rning, but it's not 19



### crowded this afternoon. 20


### So here's how the hearing's going to 21


### work. I will call speakers in pairs. When your 22

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### name is called, please go over to the podiums on 1


### that side of the room. When I call you to speak, 2



### please state your name and spell it out for the 3



### court reporter. 4



### Your comments will be transcribed and 5



### included in the record of comments in the 6



### proposed rule. 7


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 8


### give comments. We actually have a light set up 9



### here that Paula will turn on. It will start out 10


### as green. When it does flash onto yellow, that 11


### means you have one minute remaining. And then 12


### when it turns to red, that's a signal to please 13


### wrap up your testimony. 14



### After

-- it will

-- when it does get red, 15


### it will start beeping, and it will indicate 16


### you've actually had your five minutes and it's 17


### time to stop speaking. 18


### If you're the first speaker at the 19


### podium, please remain until the second speaker 20


### has spoken and completed their testimony. And 21


### then we'll move people in and out in pairs

. 22

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### You do need to turn on the speaker. 1



### There's a top button, so when you push that, 2


### there's a little red light that will come on the 3


### microphone, and that will indicate the actual

-- 4


### the microphone is on. And when you're not 5


### speaking, if you would please turn that button 6



### off. 7


### If you brought a written copy of your 8


### testimony, you can give that to the staff where 9


### you registered at the registration desk before 10


### you leave today, especially if you don't have an 11


### opportunity to finish completing your entire 12



### testim ony orally. 13


### Again, if you have any additional 14


### comments, you can submit those in writing. 15


### Please be assured that EPA gives just as much 16


### consideration to comments we receive in writing 17



### as we do comments that we received in these 18


### public hearings. So if you have more you'd like 19


### to say, please submit it. 20


### There is plenty of time to get comments 21



### in and there are comment cards available at the 22

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### registration desk. The proposed rules will be 1


### open for public comment until October 16th of 2



### 2014. 3


### We will be putting any written comments 4


### submitted today on the official docket for the 5


### proposed rule, and there's instructions for 6


### submitting your comments in other ways that are 7



### available at the materials table near the 8


### registration desk. 9


### We are scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 10


### tonight, depending on the interest, and we've had 11


### some cancellations and people not showing up for 12


### some of the morning sessions. So I guess we'll 13


### just see what happens as time goes on

-- how many 14


### speakers we do end up having. 15



### If you do have any ques tions during the 16



### day, there are staff

-- EPA staff in the hallway 17


### and then there's staff at the registration desk 18



### that are there to try to help you. Okay? 19


### Finally, I ask each of you to please be 20



### respectful to everyone who speaks today. We have 21


### people wi th a wide variety of views in the 22

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### audience, and we want to be able to hear from all 1



### of them. 2



### So, we can do that and be fair to 3


### everybody. We ask that everyone listen quietly. 4


### Even applause can slow things down, and we want 5



### to hear from everyone that has signed up to 6



### speak. 7


### Thank you again for taking the time to 8



### share your comments on the proposed rule. Let's 9



### go ahead and get started. 10


### So the first two speakers, David Justice, 11


### Kyla Maki , if you would

-- I'm going to have a 12



### Jonathan Cone and a Susan S eek fo rd. 13


### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Which one of you 14


### would like to go first? 15



### MS. : I'll go. 16


### MS. MORALES: Again, please state your 17



### name. 18


### MS. SEEKFORD: I press this button here? 19



### MS. MORALES: Yes. And then state your 20



### name for the court reporter. 21



### MS. SEEKF ORD: My name is Susan Seekford. 22

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### What else do I have to say? Just start? 1



### MS. MORALES: Please. 2



### MS. SEEKFORD : I want to thank President 3


### Obama for recognizing the urgency of climate 4


### change and for taking steps within the executive 5



### branch's power to beg in to limit the CO2 6


### emissions from existing power plants with a goal 7


### of reducing these emissions to 30 percent below 8


### the 2005 emissions by the year 2030. 9


### Since the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled 10


### that the EPA derives its rights to control carbon 11



### emissions fr om the Clean Air Act, it is fitting 12


### that the EPA should establish the rules being 13


### discussed today, and I strongly support these 14



### rules. 15



### It should be noted that emissions from 16



### power plants represent about one

- third of the CO2 17


### emissions in our country. The proposed 18


### regulations do not address transportation, 19


### residential, commercial, agricultural, or 20



### industrial emissions, so these standards should 21


### be seen as a minimal good start. 22

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### Also, according to most accounts we have 1


### already dropped our power plants' emiss ions by 15 2


### percent since 2005 , and we will have about 15 3



### years to drop by another 15 percent, so we are 4


### well on our way to reaching this goal. 5


### The EPA proposes to give states choice on 6



### how to meet the standards, and states can reduce 7


### emissions at the powe r plants or through offsets 8


### that are outside the fence of the power plant but 9



### within the state. 10


### So, among economists a carbon tax is 11


### widely accepted as the most economically 12


### efficient and cost effective way to reduce CO2 13


### emissions. Though directed at red ucing CO2 14


### emissions, carbon taxes can also help states 15


### reduce other fossil fuel by

- products, includi ng 16


### particulates, mercury, and NO x and SO x emissions. 17


### Detractors who argue against a carbon tax 18


### say it will kill jobs, drag down the economy, and 19



### burden fam ilies with higher energy bills; but a 20



### well

- designed carbon tax that recycles revenue 21


### back to households and into the economy would 22

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### protect families from rising costs and actually 1


### add jobs. 2


### A recent study by Regional Economic 3



### Models, Inc., known as REMI, f ound a carbon tax 4


### in California even at very high levels would 5



### increase GDP and add hundreds of thousands of 6


### jobs provided the revenue is returned to the 7


### public either as tax cuts or as direct payments. 8


### This study can be found at 9


### etr.us.org/remi

- studies. 10


### REMI also just released a 20

- year 11


### analysis of the impacts of a gradually increasing 12



### national revenue neutral carbon tax, and that 13



### study showed that under such a plan the U.S. 14


### would reduce CO2 emissions to 50 percent of 1990 15


### levels while growing the U.S. e conomy by $1.375 16


### trillion and adding 2.8 million jobs. Real 17


### income will increase, and premature deaths will 18



### decrease by 227,000. This study can be found at 19


### citizensclimatelobby.org. 20



### I want to add that Regional Economic 21


### Models, Inc., is a highly regarded non

- partisan 22

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### consulting organization that has been in business 1


### for 30 years. Their clients include 47 state 2


### governments, cities, towns, Fortune 500 3


### companies, and organizations such as the American 4


### Gas Association, the Nuclear Energy Institute, 5



### and Price waterhouse, to name just a few. They 6


### approached the study from an economic point of 7


### view and they had no preconceived agenda on how 8



### it would turn out. 9


### The experience in British Columbia, 10


### Canada, is a real life example of how a revenue 11



### neutral carbon tax has worked. In 2008 British 12


### Columbia passed a gradually increasing revenue 13


### neutral carbon tax; and their experience shows 14


### that a sub national jurisdiction can 15


### significantly reduce CO2 emissions while 16


### strengthening its economy. So, for the report in 17



### the f irst four years of that program you can go 18


### to sustainableprosperity.ca. 19


### As you determine the options that states 20


### will have to be in compliance with EPA 21


### regulations, I request that you consider the 22

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### following: A carbon tax should be clearly 1


### specified in th e final rule as a viable means of 2


### compliance. You should include clear guidance on 3


### the administration, implementation, price, and 4


### escalation rate for a tax that would satisfy the 5


### requirements of EPA's new rule. 6


### States should have as many options 7



### availabl e to them as possible as long as they are 8


### effective in reducing carbon emissions. A carbon 9


### tax would be highly effective and easy to 10



### administer. If states choose to make such a 11



### carbon tax revenue neutral, it will also 12


### strengthen their economies. 13



### On be half of our children, grandchildren 14


### and future generations, thank you for taking a 15


### step to address the process of global warming, 16


### the most urgent challenge of our lifetime. 17


### MS. MORALES: Thank you. You will have 18



### to turn your speaker off. Thank you. 19



### MS. MAKI : Good afternoon. My name is 20


### Kyla Maki, last name is spelled M

- A

- K

- I . I'm 21



### with the Montana E nvironmental Information Center 22

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### in Helena, Montana. 1



### First of all I wanted to commend the EPA 2


### for moving forward on carbon pollution standards 3


### for existing power plants. The Clean Power Plan 4



### is a monumental and critical action to address 5


### climate change, protect public health, and 6


### improve our economy. EPA's proposed standards 7



### are a good start, but we need to ensure that they 8



### are better than business a usual and achieve 9


### meaningful reductions in the future. 10


### Specifically for the State of Montana 11


### that means increasing Montana's proposed emission 12


### reduction targets that are currently at 21 13


### percent to higher goals. The emission reduction 14



### target for Montana should be based on renewable 15


### energy potential, not our current renewable 16



### energy standard. 17


### Energy efficiency targets should also be 18


### based on our potential for energy efficiency 19


### opportunities in Montana, not the conservative 20


### assumptions that are currently in the d raft plan. 21


### Montana's emission performance target is 22

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### already relatively low compared to other states. 1


### We have the second lowest emission target after 2


### North Dakota. That's primarily because we don't 3


### have underutilized natural gas combined cycle 4



### facilities or nuclear capacity. We do agree with 5



### that but that we believe that our renewable 6


### energy potential in Montana which ranks second in 7



### the country

-- our wind energy potential ranks 8


### second in the country. The plan should be based 9



### on that not on our current removal portfolio 10


### standard or the averaging of the portfolio 11


### standards in our region. 12


### Montana's renewal energy standard is 15 13



### percent by 2015. We met that goal two years 14



### early

-- or three years early and our

-- and have 15


### the potential to exceed that goal . The renewable 16


### portfolio standards should be the floor, not the 17


### ceiling for the numbers in the Clean Power Plan 18


### and our emission reduction targets. 19


### Montana is also blessed with significant 20


### potential in energy efficiency. We

-- we 21



### currently rank 29th on the ACEEE, American 22

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### Council for an Energy Efficient Economy, in 1


### energy efficiency expenditures and spending and 2


### policies. And so there is a lot of low

- hanging 3


### fruit for cost effective energy efficiency. 4


### Over the last five years there was an 5


### analysis don e on a Northwestern Energy System in 6


### Montana, and they were the largest utility in the 7


### state. And energy efficiency has saved consumers 8


### over $75 million in the state of Montana which is 9


### very significant. 10


### Expanding the goals in the carbon

-- in 11



### the Clean Power Plan will cost effectively 12


### improve Montana's economy and the nation's 13


### economy. It will also create jobs. 14


### Synapse Energy Economics did a study that 15


### was released last month about the job creation 16


### potential from the Clean Energy sectors in 17



### Montana

-- energy efficiency, utility scale 18


### solar, rooftop solar, and wind. That study 19


### estimated that by 2030 Montana could create over 20


### 4,000 jobs in each of those sectors combined if 21


### we meet industry estimations for our renewable 22

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### energy potential. Most of that is likely to come 1


### in the form of wind energy. Like I mentioned, we 2


### rank second in wind energy potential, but I 3


### believe 23rd in installed capacity, so there's a 4


### lot of potential there. And EPA's proposed Power 5


### Plan should be based on that potential, not w hat 6


### we've done in the past. 7


### Montana also has a significant solar 8



### resource that yet

-- remains yet untapped. And 9


### EPA's Clean Power Plan can jump start investments 10


### in that industry as well. So we support the 11


### start that's EPA's Power Plan has made in jump 12


### starting clean energy, but we believe that it 13


### could aim higher especially for states like 14



### Montana. 15


### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Is David 16



### Justice here and Jonathan Cone? 17



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think David

-- 18


### David's going to speak next door. 19



### MS. MORALES : He is? Okay. Is Jonathan 20



### here? 21



### (No response.) 22

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### MS. MORALES: How about Lance Wright? 1



### Also, Laur r ent M eillon ? 2



### MR. WRIGHT: Hello, my name's Lance 3


### Wright, and I'm also known as the Green Engineer

. 4


### I mean no disrespect by the costume. It's part 5



### of wh o I am. Energy efficiency is the greenest 6


### energy there is. 7


### And we were talking about global impacts 8



### of carbon. I tried to think about what I could 9


### say that would be different other than my 10


### costume, of course. I don't think there's going 11



### to very many folks in costume today, but first 12


### off I want to say that I had once upon a time 13



### served on a town council. And I oftentimes ended 14


### up on the other side of the dais for some of 15


### these interminable hearings that go on and on and 16



### on. And I want to thank you fo r showing up today 17


### and doing your job as a public servant to listen 18


### to what we, the public, have to say. It's 19


### oftentimes maligned in the popular press, but you 20



### won't see much of that here, I don't believe. We 21



### thank you for that. 22

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### And I have a belief that if something 1


### exists that must mean it's possible. And what I 2


### do in my day job is energy efficiency for 3


### buildings. And we can design a building today 4


### using modern building science that will reduce 5



### the energy load by about 90 percent. In other 6



### words, to heat and cool your house, it will take 7



### about 10 percent of what a code

- built home would 8


### require. 9


### You couple energy efficiency at various 10



### levels with various resources available to 11



### produce the energy and actually there may not be 12


### any need for regulation of future coal plants 13


### because we probably don't need what the industry 14


### is projecting. 15


### And the changes to the regulations to 16


### allow modifications of existing plants, I believe 17


### should be as strong as we can possibly get 18


### through. Fifty percent modification s eems to me 19


### to be relatively generous. If they're only doing 20


### 30 percent, that would be an improvement, I 21



### believe. 22

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### And I back that up by the idea that 1


### energy efficiency changes the game. We don't 2


### have to take past performance as a predictor of 3



### the future. If it exists, it's possible. There 4



### are houses that are built in the United States 5


### and in Europe, buildings that are multifamily 6


### housing, buildings that are apartments

-- I mean 7


### office buildings

-- they even have schools and 8



### what we better refer to as gy mnasiums. We call 9


### it a health spa

-- that reduced the energy load 10



### tremendously. 11


### So, that is the little nugget of 12


### information that I want to leave today is that we 13


### need to regulate what we are doing now. We need 14


### to seriously

-- seriously question what's 15


### projected for the future and remember that all of 16


### us rely on science to the extent that we have to 17



### have a little bit of belief. There is one 18


### argument that, well, I’m not sure this global 19


### warming is true. 20


### Well, if you're generally speaking, the 21



### person s aying that isn't an expert. I know when 22

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### I get on an airplane, I am trusting the general 1


### consensus of engineering and aerodynamic science 2


### that that thing is going to do what it's supposed 3



### to do. We don't know that for sure, but we trust 4



### the experts. 5



### I'm one that believes that there is 6


### enough of a preponderance of evidence that global 7


### climate change is man caused, that we have to do 8


### this. We have to believe that it's possible. 9


### One other analogy is Russian Roulette. 10


### You can load six bullets into the gun, turn the 11


### cylinder and fire it. Traditionally you have one 12


### bullet in there. Well, let's say the doubters 13



### believe that there's one bullet. The folks that 14


### agree with the science say there's five bullets 15


### in there. We don't need to be playing the game, 16



### per iod. Thank you. 17



### MR. M EILLON: Hello, my name is Laurrent 18


### Meillon. Since obtaining an MBA at U W

- Madison, 19


### my lifelong focus across industries has been on 20



### new product development. How does a product go 21


### from the anecdotic to general market adoption? 22

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### I' m a junior partner with Capit o l Solar 1



### Energy , H arvesting S unlight for 33 years, served 2


### as a policy committee member for CROSCO, our 3


### renewable energy society, and recently served as 4



### an elected board member, treasurer, and vice

5


### president for COSEIA, the Colo rado Solar Energy 6


### Industry Association, and the co

- author of the 7


### Colorado Solar Thermal Roadmap in cooperation 8


### with many parties from NREL to government 9


### academia and industry. 10



### I'm here to offer support for the new 11


### regulations internalizing some of the cos ts of 12


### carbon dioxide. These regulations are the most 13


### meaningful legislative and executive action to 14


### address climate change and limitations and 15


### natural resources in American history, perhaps 16


### since the collapse of Mesa Verde in the State of 17



### Colorado. 18



### These regulations begin to address the 19


### external costs of fossil fuels which are right 20


### now socialized at random, escaping the capitalist 21


### system which is the foundation of our economy. 22

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### Throughout the history of the agency industry has 1


### systematically over estimat ed the financial 2


### consequences of EPA regulations by orders of 3


### magnitude, and they're claims must be dismissed 4


### because they're entirely exaggerated and because 5


### externalizing these costs stand on no other 6


### ground than habits in tunnel vision. 7



### In fact, recent New York Time article 8


### showed that the largest fossil fuel corporations 9


### already use an internal cost of carbon above the 10


### proposed EPA regulations, $60 per ton in 11


### ExxonMobil's internal accounting. 12


### Internalizing these costs will even the 13


### playing field betwe en renewable energies and 14


### fossil fuels, opening a new era of sustainable 15


### economic growth for our states, country, and 16



### planet. 17


### I'm mainly here to ask that methane is 18


### given proper CO2 equivalen ce and included in your 19


### regulations. There are two fast

- growing large 20


### scale energy industries in the U.S.

-- fra c king 21



### and renewables. In the U.S. two

- thirds to three

22

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### fourths of the energy used by building as far as 1


### heating and cooling functions

. 2



### That would not be address ed with natural 3


### gas while renewable energy efforts have typically 4


### focused on electric generation which only fetches 5



### a quarter of the energy us age of our buildings. 6



### The resu lt price of fracks gas in Colorado i s 7



### around 60 cents per therm or roughly two cents 8


### per kilowatt hour. 9



### By energy contrast, this is four to five 10


### times cheaper than electricity, propane, 11


### gasoline, or most fuels. Market forces will make 12


### this industry move. Fracks gases and fossil fuel 13


### with its myriad consequences on water, air, 14


### climate change, and health at two cents per 15



### kilow att hour, there's ample room to internalize 16



### the cost of externalities. 17



### Natural gas leaks across its chain of the 18


### extraction, transportation, and distribution. 19


### Fracking encasements leak. Cement encasements 20



### cannot hold methane and other constituents of 21



### na tural gas across geological layers over the 22

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### long term without defying the laws of physics. 1



### See Cornell P rofessor Ingraffea's work on this 2


### topic. 3



### The Environmental Defense Fund model 4



### shows that 3.2 percent leak rates of methane make 5



### frack gas as bad as co al when it comes to climate 6


### change, yet recent NOAA and NASA publications and 7



### most peer

- reviewed research points to leakage 8


### rates ranging from 4 to 8 percent. Furthermore, 9



### the EDF model is based on a 100

- year horizon. 10


### Methane dissipates from the atmosph ere 11



### over time and this hundred

- year horizon shifts 12


### the math in favor of gas. Yet climate change 13


### science estimates the catastrophic turning point 14


### as 2 degrees Celsius rise is 22 years away, not a 15



### hundred. Twenty

- two years is likely the most 16


### urgent horizon . On the hundred year horizon the 17


### count of methane has 25 times more potency than a 18


### pound of CO2 in terms of climate change. On the 19



### 20

- year horizon it's 72 times more potent and 20



### this 22

- year horizon
, 1.5 to 2 percent leak rates 21



### make frack ed gas as bad a s coal for climate 22

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### change. Again, currently great measurements were 1



### two to six fold that threshold. 2



### In conclusion, because frack ed gas is 3


### experiencing enormous growth because frack ed gas 4


### is worse than coal for climate change, because 5



### cheap frack ed gas ca n easily internalize the cost 6


### of its externalities, it is key that methane, CO2 7


### equivalents, be properly considered by the EPA 8



### a nd key, that fracking be included in the 9


### application of the new carbon regulations. 10


### I leave you on this quote from Randy 11



### Udall , founder of the Peak Oil Institute and 12



### brother of Senator Mark Udall , " We'll know we are 13


### serious about climate change when we stop talking 14


### about carbon and start talking about methane. " 15



### Thank you. 16



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Max Tyler and 17


### Carl Smith, if y ou're in the audience, please 18



### come up. 19



### So you guys, before you speak, please 20



### state your name and then spell them for the 21



### record for the court reporter. 22

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### MR. TYLER: All right. My name is Max

-- 1



### MS. MORALES: Turn off the other speaker 2



### and turn yours on. Thank you. 3


### MR. TYLER: Thank you. My name is Max 4



### Tyler, M

- A

- X, T

- Y

- L

- E

- R. I am the Chairman of 5


### the House Transportation and Energy Committee for 6


### the State of Colorado, and I'm here testifying in 7


### strong support of the rules that the EPA is 8


### proposing. 9


### During the five years I've been in the 10


### legislature, I've focused on reducing carbon 11



### emissions in Colorado. Because of what Colorado 12



### has done over the last 10 years we're well on the 13


### way to meeting the goal that's been set already. 14



### We passed

-- we've got several dozen bills, and 15



### we've shown that it can be done. 16


### But these are important rules to move 17



### forward on. And though we have started on a good 18


### path in Colorado, I strongly encourage the EPA to 19


### hold to the 2012 baseline, not only because 20



### that's when dat a is available that you started 21


### gathering on emissions from power plants but 22

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### because ultimately the bar is too low at that 30 1



### percent. 2


### By the time we go forward, the process is 3


### proceeding and we've been a dozen years down this 4


### road of knowing we're going to have to limit 5


### emissions on coal fired power plants, and the 6


### private sector has a couple years to get used to 7


### the idea that that's going to happen. They have 8


### 20 years, 2020 to 2029 to implement it. You 9


### know, I have a pretty darn good appreciation for 10



### t he private sector that they can accomplish this 11


### with little effect. And by the time we get to 12


### 2020, by the time we get to 2029 we will know 13



### very clearly that the bar has been set too low. 14


### The climate is changing. The climate is 15


### changing because of anthr opogenic changes because 16


### of what we're doing by putting carbon in the air, 17


### and the results are becoming more and more 18


### obvious. We're going to have to take bigger 19



### steps down the road. 20



### You know, it's an insidious kind of a 21


### problem. I think you may have he ard from the 22

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### folks from Craig, Colorado. There's a power 1


### plant up there. The skies are clear in Craig, 2


### Colorado. There doesn't seem to be any pollution 3


### in Craig, Colorado, but that power plant up there 4


### pumps out more carbon pollution than any other 5



### stat ionary source in the State of Colorado by a 6


### large margin. 7


### That carbon up there that's going into 8


### the atmosphere is polluting our entire 9


### environment and changing what we have here in 10


### Colorado in ways that are just becoming apparent. 11



### More drought, more f ires, more floods, and it's 12


### not going to get better until we start ramping 13


### back putting that much carbon into the air. 14


### I want to point out that the clear 15


### mission of power companies, coal companies, 16


### mining companies is to maximize the rate of 17



### return for th eir shareholders. That's a 18


### legitimate mission for them. It is not a mission 19


### for us. It is not your mission as the 20


### Environmental Protection Agency. It is not the 21


### mission of elected officials such as myself. We 22

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### hold the future of our community and child ren in 1



### trust. 2


### The cost of continuing to pump CO2 into 3



### the atmosphere

-- the cost of continuing our 4


### carbon pollution is appalling. It's 5


### astronomical, and it's catastrophic. We need to 6


### stop destroying the environment that has been 7


### keeping us alive, keepin g our civilization going 8


### for so long now. We are changing the climate of 9


### this planet, and we have to start doing more to 10



### back this down and to maintain what we know as a 11


### legitimate civilization. 12



### We can do it. We've done it in Colorado 13



### to a great degree, and we've done it in a way 14



### that is much more cost effective than was 15


### anticipated. There are outlandish cost estimates 16



### for what it costs to cut carbon. There's real 17


### world examples every single year of the cost of 18


### not cutting carbon. And that's what we h ave to 19



### look at. That's what we have to deal with. 20


### In conclusion, these are good rules. 21


### They're reasonable, and they have the benefit of 22

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### being able to perhaps improve the economy and 1


### over the long term, they're definitely going to 2


### be improving the econom y rather than hurting it. 3


### I encourage you to stick with the rules; stick 4



### with the 2012 date. 5


### Private sector is pretty darn creative. 6


### They can do it. They can pull it off, and they 7



### can save the

-- they can save for our children 8


### and our grandchildren t he kind of civilization 9


### and the kind of earth that we have today that we 10


### can live in productively. Please hold to those 11



### rules. Thank you. 12



### MS. MORALES: Please get your speaker. 13



### And you'll have to turn that one off. Thank you. 14



### MR. SMITH: Hello, my na me is Carl Smith, 15



### C

- A

- R

- L, S

- M

- I

- T

- H. I’m the Colorado Legislative 16



### Director and on behalf of the Smart Union of 17


### Sebenar Rail and Transportation Union of the 18


### Transportation Division. I represent 4,000 19


### active and retired railroad employees here in the 20



### Stat e of Colorado. 21


### Why do railroaders care? Almost 40 22

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### percent of all freight railroad cars in America 1


### are coal cars. Coal has provided the revenues 2


### needed to build and rebuild America freight 3


### railroads. Coal revenues continue to provide the 4



### money necessary to expand and maintain our 5



### railroad infrastructure in America. 6


### Railroads will spend about $25 billion in 7


### 2014 to maintain and expand our railroad 8


### infrastructure and to her about 14,000 employees. 9



### Twenty

- five percent of the freight rail industry 10



### revenu es come from shipping the coal. Twenty 11


### percent of all freight rail jobs involve hauling 12



### coal. 13



### And we're here today because our members 14


### are concerned about the loss of their jobs due to 15



### the EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. EPA reports 16



### that the reduction of CO2 emissions under the 17


### Clean Power Plan is equivalent to 30 percent cut 18


### over 2005 emissions. However, EPA proposal gives 19


### no credit to states that already have reduced CO2 20



### emissions due to market driven forces such as 21


### increased natural gas use, the ret irement of 22

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### older coal generating plants, and construction of 1


### new nuclear generation. 2



### Since 2005 CO2 emissions from all fossil 3



### fueled plants have decreased by 13 percent. Many 4


### states highly dependent on coal

- based generation 5


### have already achieved signific ant emission 6



### reductions but still face additional burden of 7


### further reducing their CO2

-- CO2 emissions on 8


### the short timetable set by the EPA proposed rule. 9


### We recognize that states were on 10


### flexibility in developing the measures to which 11



### to achieve the C O2 emissions reduction goals 12



### called for by the Clean Power Plan. However, 13


### stringency of the stated reduction goals will 14


### nonetheless have the effect of dictating for the 15


### first time how states regulate their generation 16



### and use of energy. 17


### EPA projects that the proposed CO2 18


### reductions would reduce U.S. coal production for 19


### electric generation by 35 percent from 2009 20


### levels by the year 2020 with a comparable 21


### reduction of coal based electric generation. 22

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### Even larger regional coal production 1


### reductions are projec ted by 2020 for Appalachia 2


### and the west. EPA also projects that the rule 3


### will cause loss of 41 to 49 gigawa t ts of coal 4


### generating capacity by 2020. These retirements 5


### are in addition to the 92 gigawatts of coal 6


### capacity that EPA is already projecting will shut 7


### down between 2012 and 2020 in large part to 8


### compliance with 2012 mercury and air toxic rules. 9


### We believe that losing around 130 10


### gigawatts of base load coal capacity nearly 40 11


### percent of the nation's coal generation fleet in 12



### 2012 raises serious conce rns for the future 13


### reliability of our electric power supplies. 14


### Our reliability concerns would no doubt 15


### become more urgent as existing base load nuclear 16


### units begin to retire upon the expiration of 17


### their already extended NR C operating licenses. 18


### Our prelim inary estimates of the job 19


### impacts of EPA proposed Clean Power Rule indicate 20


### a potential loss of 52,000 permanent direct jobs 21


### by 2020 in the utility, rail, and coal sectors 22

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### due to power plant retirements and the loss of 1


### 167,000 total direct and indirect jo bs. 2


### These direct jobs are all highly skilled, 3


### highly paid jobs typically in rural communities 4


### without opportunities for comparable employment. 5


### These impacts do not consider any of the job 6


### losses associated with the closure of plants due 7



### to the M ATS Rul e and other factors. 8


### EPA proposed increasing dispatched 9


### natural gas combined cycle units in addition to 10


### the 40 gigawatts of natural gas combined cycle 11


### capacity that EPA projects to come on line 12


### between 2020 and 2030 will lead to significant 13



### increase in na tural gas prices as well as EPA's 14


### projection. 15


### In closing, this is a large impact on 16



### rural Colorado. I'm a rower brakeman. I'm a 17


### rower conductor. My coworkers, my friends, we 18


### all work on the railroad. We pay in to railroad 19


### retirement. This impacts our jobs. Thank you. 20



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Alex Blackmer? 21



### And then Jonathan Cone, is he back in the room? 22

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### John Lauer? 1


### Okay. And only one microphone can be on 2


### at a time, so you'll have to turn one off. 3


### MR. BLACKMER: My name is Alex Blackmer. 4



### MS. MORALES: Please

-- 5



### MR. BLACKMER: Oh, I'm sorry. Want me to 6



### do it over? 7



### MS. MORALES: No, there you go. Thank 8



### you. 9



### MR. BLACKMER: Okay. Here we go. 10


### My name is Alex Blackmer, A

- L

- E

- X, 11



### B

- L

- A

- C

- K

- M

- E

- R, and I am the President of the 12



### Colorado Renewabl e Energy Society. 13


### I want to thank you all for coming to 14



### Colorado to hear our concerns. And I would also 15


### like to thank the EPA for taking this small but 16


### important, step towards regulating carbon in our 17


### country. I say small because it is only the very 18



### beg inning of what is needed to prevent our planet 19


### from being overwhelmed by the impacts of global 20


### climate change caused by our uninhibited 21


### combustion of fossil fuels. And I say important 22

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### because it shows leadership which in the past has 1


### been lacking national ly both in facing the issue 2



### of human

- caused climate change and in acting to 3


### mitigate its effect. 4


### While this is by no means a perfect 5


### proposal, it is a positive step towards reining 6


### our species' inclination to soil the nest in 7



### which we've been raised. 8



### I w ould hold that contrary to what some 9


### of my colleagues in the electric generation 10


### industry might believe, this is a very moderate 11


### proposal which at best represents a baby step 12


### towards what the future of carbon regulation will 13



### look like. 14



### In fact, much of the 30 percent reduction 15


### in carbon produced by electrical generation from 16


### 2005 levels which these rules mandate has already 17


### been achieved by many states. According to the 18


### EPA's own documentation a combination of energy 19


### efficiency, renewable energy, and ga s power plant 20


### technology has already achieved a 13 percent 21



### reduction in 2005 levels in current electrical 22

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### based carbon emissions. 1


### This brings us nearly half of the way to 2


### where these proposed regulations will take us. I 3


### believe that we can far out script the EPA goals 4


### in this proposal much as many states, including 5


### Colorado, continue to surpass the goals that they 6


### have outlined in their renewable energy standards 7



### due to the success that the renewable energy and 8


### energy efficiency industries have achieved b y 9


### working in partnership with the electrical 10


### generation industries. 11



### In the U.S. power plants are the largest 12


### single source of greenhouse gas emissions coming 13


### in at about 83 percent with 30 quarters of that 14


### directly attributable to burning coal. The 15



### avera ge age of their electrical generating fleet 16


### is 42 years old with 11 percent of their plants 17


### being over 60 years old. How many technologies 18


### from 60 or even 40 years ago remain viable today? 19


### The coal industry needs to be aware that 20


### their product is in dang er of becoming as 21



### obsolete and outdated as the dinosaurs which in 22

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### their dying created the fuel we burn today. 1


### The coal industry either needs to find a 2


### way to burn their product without massive amounts 3


### of damaging emissions or work to find 4


### sequestration s trategies that will safely 5



### transform their emissions into a non lethal 6



### byproduct. 7


### This EPA proposal is asking them to take 8


### a small step in that direction. If the coal 9


### industry cannot develop the technologies to 10


### effectively achieve this, they will and sho uld 11



### become obsolete. 12


### Other economic and regulatory forces are 13


### clearly leading in the same direction. Wind 14


### energy is already at a parity or below the cost 15


### of coal in many instances. And solar energy is 16


### well on its way with cost decreases of over 40 17



### perce nt in the last three years alone. 18


### This set of proposed rules from the EPA 19



### echoes the market trend away from the coal 20


### industry as it stands today reinforcing the 21


### global movement away from fossil fuel consumption 22

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### and towards cleaner and more sustainable 1



### ren ewable energy use. 2


### While the EPA rules may be seen by some 3


### as not going far enough and are criticized by 4


### others for having no effect on the vast carbon 5


### emissions of China and India, I believe they are 6


### an important first step domestically and put the 7



### Unite d States of America in a leadership role 8



### globally. 9


### While they are not as demanding as I or 10


### many others would like, they demonstrate a doable 11


### first step at home and show other nations that we 12


### as a country are serious about taking steps to 13



### reduce the carb on emissions. For that reason I 14


### would like to endorse and support any way 15


### possible this small but important step towards 16


### regulating an extremely dangerous pollution. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR

. LAUER : Good afternoon. My name is 19


### John Lauer. Lauer is spelled L

- A

- U

- E

- R. I'm 20


### here today to voice my support for the proposed 21


### EPA rulemaking action. 22

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### I have come to this position in good part 1


### based on my experience as a W ildland F irefighter 2


### who specialized in suppression of large flash 3



### fires. 4


### Each region of the country ex periences 5


### the effects of climate change in different ways. 6


### While coastal areas have experienced an increase 7



### in hurricanes, western states have seen an 8


### increase in wildfire resulting from climate 9



### change. 10


### According to the Union of Concerned 11



### Scientists, rob ust scientific evidence points to 12


### the specific role of climate change in elevating 13



### the wildfire risk in the western United States. 14


### Wildfire has always been a natural and essential 15


### part of the western ecosystem. When fire is 16


### performing its natural functio n, it is moving at 17


### a low speed and a lower intensity. Think of it 18


### as a friendly decluttering of the forest floor. 19


### But climate change has created a new type 20


### of wildfire, fires that grow at an explosive 21



### rate. These fires do not nurture the forest 22

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### floor bu t rather, they burn with such heat and 1


### intensity that they destroy the soil and 2


### everything in its path. And this is something 3



### I've observed firsthand on numerous occasions. 4



### In the Gil a National Forest my crew was 5



### first on scene to a remote fire. Within a matter 6


### of days this fire grew from a few acres to over 7


### 300,000 and became the largest fire in New Mexico 8


### state's history. 9


### Three examples in Colorado of these type 10


### of fires are the Waldo Canyon Fire, the Hyde Park 11



### Fire, and the Black Forest Fire. These fires 12


### burned down hundreds of home in a day of activity 13


### and ultimately required FEMA assistance. 14


### When the soil is charred so severely, the 15


### likelihood of flash flooding is greatly 16


### increased. Just last night there was another 17


### flash flood warning issued for the Waldo Canyon 18



### burn area. 19


### And the economic impact of these fires is 20


### also extensive. Putting out a fire is a 21


### dangerous proposition that requires tens of 22

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### thousands of man hours, heavy equipment, and 1


### specialized aircraft. In 2013, according to the 2



### Nati onal Interagency Fire Center, the cost for 3


### fire suppression was $1.7 billion

. 4



### Property damage could be even more 5


### costly. In Colorado alone insured losses on the 6


### Waldo Canyon, Hyde Park, and Black Forest fires 7


### exceeded $855 million. These numbers do not 8


### factor into account the emotional toll of losing 9


### a home where one raised a family, and nor do they 10



### factor into account those who lose their lives 11


### fleeing the fires and fighting those fires. 12


### Harvard scientists are predicting that 13


### because of climate change by 2050 fires will be 14


### three times as likely to grow from a small fire 15


### into a big fire; the amount of smoke in the air 16


### will greatly increase; and the land charred by 17



### fires will double. 18


### These proposed EPA regulations reduce 19



### carbon emissions and, therefore, decrease the 20


### severity of a smoky and dangerous future. 21



### But there is no need to be all doom and 22

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### gloom about the future either. There is 1


### remarkable opportunity for innovation and 2


### employment in a new low carbon economy. These 3


### rules and indeed any action which limits the 4



### amount of admissible carbon emissions will 5


### necessarily create strong economic incentives to 6


### develop new energy solutions. 7



### It needs to be remembered, however, that 8


### in this transition to a low carbon economy the 9


### government must do everythin g it can to ease the 10


### transition for those who earn a living by working 11


### in the coal industry. These are good men and 12


### women who work a hard job, and their work has 13


### kept us warm in the winter and cool in the 14



### summer. And they ought to be fully supported as 15



### t he country transitions to new sustainable modes 16


### of production. 17



### Thus, in the west I can envision two 18



### futures: one full of smoke and the other full of 19



### innovation. I want to see a future full of 20


### innovation, and that is why I'm supporting these 21



### EPA rules. Thank you. 22

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### MS. MORALES: Thanks to both of you. 1



### Next we have Matt Ny kiel and Cindy Lay

. 2



### MR. NYKIEL : Good afternoon. My name is 3


### Matthew Nykiel, N

- Y

- K

- I

- E

- L. As a former 4


### Wildland Firefighter and as a current student at 5


### the University of Colorado Law Sc hool, I would 6


### like to voice my support of EPA addressing 7


### climate change through this proposed rule. 8


### In light of Congress' inability to just 9


### address this problem EPA's initiative takes us a 10


### step in the right direction towards reducing 11



### carbon emissions; and it also serves to call the 12


### general public's attention to the issue of 13


### climate change. 14


### I empathize with the individuals and 15


### families who will struggle with the effects this 16


### regulation will have on the coal industry. And I 17


### hope that as this rule begins to shut the door on 18


### coal it will also open doors for alternative 19


### forms of electricity generation and conservation 20


### which will hopefully create new jobs and 21


### opportunities that are accessible to those who 22

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### will be impacted by this rule. 1


### While it is important fo r EPA to continue 2


### to show empathy and care toward individuals and 3


### families affected by this rule, it is also 4


### important that EPA help the public understand 5


### that by regulating carbon dioxide emissions EPA 6


### is not acting unfairly toward the coal industry. 7



### Rat her, the proposed rule addresses the failure 8



### of the market to internalize all the costs of the 9



### combustion of coal which includes carbon 10


### dioxide's heat trapping effects. 11



### The proposed rule may not perfectly 12


### reduce global carbon dioxide emissions but it 13



### none theless sets an important precedent both 14


### nationally and internationally. 15


### I appreciate it, and thank you for the 16


### opportunity to comment. 17



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. 18


### MS. LAY: Hi, my name is Cindy, 19



### C

- I

- N

- D

- Y, L

- A

- Y, Lay. I'm a native of this 20



### beautiful stat e. I’m a wife, a mother, and a 21


### retired health care professional. Since my 22

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### retirement I've become very active in my 1


### community working as a volunteer to support those 2


### causes I embrace and to propound those ideas and 3


### actions that I hope will bring about the change I 4



### seek. 5


### Colorado is known for its many outdoor 6


### activities. Snowing

-- snowboarding, skiing, 7


### rafting, camping, biking, and hiking. These 8


### outdoor activities are being jeopardized by less 9



### snowfall, hotter summers, wildfires and floods, 10



### and more tha n 97 percent of scientists agree and 11



### -- it's largely due to climate change caused by 12



### them. 13


### Early in the 20th century consumption and 14



### asthma victims were sent to Colorado for the cure 15



### because of our altitude and clean air. The 16


### altitude requires we breathe deeper which is 17


### beneficial to those with lung disease

-- by 18


### expanding their lungs. We can no longer claim 19



### that distinction. 20


### Colorado's voters and legislators have 21



### done more than most states to limit carbon 22

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### emission. In 2004 Colorado voters adopted 1



### Amen dment 37 establishing the country's first 2



### citizen initiative renewable energy standard 3


### requiring the largest utilities in the state to 4


### obtain 10 percent of their electric energy from 5



### clean, renewable resources by 2015. 6


### With bipartisan majorities in 2007 and 7


### renewable energy standards to require the largest 8


### utilities in the state to achieve a 30 percent 9



### renewable energy standard by 2020 they are on 10



### track to meet or exceed the standards. 11


### Colorado's energy efficiency resource 12


### standard implemented by the st ate's investor

13



### owned utilities in 2007 has reduced demand for 14


### electrical power and saved customers hundreds of 15



### millions of dollars. 16


### In its first five years the program saved 17


### businesses and households more than $600 million 18



### and has reduced annual electric usage in Colorado 19


### by the amount typically used by 100,000 20



### households. 21


### Colorado's legislators passed the Clean 22

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### Air, Clean Jobs Act in 2010. The resulting 1


### transition to natural gas and other low emitting 2


### resources by our state's largest investor

- owned 3



### util ity has already led to dramatic multi 4


### pollutant emission reductions. And yet still air 5


### pollution in Colorado from Colorado's coal fired 6


### power plants contributes to 53 deaths, 81 heart 7



### attacks, over 1,000 asthma attacks, and over $400 8



### million in health car e costs every year. 9


### This not only affects our economy, it is 10


### taking away our legacy and identity as an outdoor 11



### lovers' mecca. 12


### After reading tons of information about 13


### climate change and man's contribution to it, I 14


### realize Colorado is one of only a few sta tes that 15


### have taken even the first baby steps toward 16


### dealing concretely with this problem. What I 17


### have been reading is based on scientific 18


### observation and analysis by unbiased experts who 19


### have no agenda other than to ring the warning 20



### bells about the alarm ing data they have been 21


### collecting. So I'm alarmed because they are 22

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### alarmed. How could I not be? 1


### Are they just messing with us or are they 2


### onto something? I think you know the answer to 3


### that question. 4


### So, the only sensible and reasonable 5



### result of my anxiety is to walk upright against 6



### the winds of self

- interest coming from the fossil 7


### fuel industry and its science

- deny

- er supporters. 8



### It is time for action to do whatever we can to 9


### mitigate the rate and impact of climate change. 10



### The EPA's Clean Power Pl an is a step we 11


### must take. As a volunteer community organizer, 12


### I've been astounded by the power of ordinary 13


### people who care about our community, our country, 14


### and our world. Their power is subtle, deep 15


### seated, unrelenting, and extremely effective when 16



### fed by truth and by the facts. 17



### People are good. People care. People 18


### act very effectively when properly organized and 19


### informed as evidenced by the steps Coloradans 20


### have taken to affect meaningful change

-- 21


### allaying fears and emboldened hope regarding the 22

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### un precedented challenge. 1


### So let's do everything we can to support 2


### this very important Clean Power Plan, but let's 3


### do a better job of telling the story and 4


### organizing our friends and neighbors to the cost. 5


### Our history is replete

-- 6



### (Buzzer sounded.) 7



### MS. LAY:

-- with examples of truly 8


### enormous endeavors and accomplishments, all 9


### achieved when we finally faced the facts and did 10



### what we had to do. So let's continue to raise 11


### our voices. Speak truth to power at every turn 12


### and compassionately but persistentl y inform and 13



### recruit our fellow citizens to the cause. We 14



### must face our world as it is not as we wish it 15


### would be. Let's turn those baby steps into giant 16



### steps to save our country and our world. Thank 17



### you. 18



### MS. MORALES: Thank you, both of you. 19



### John Mc Allister? Is Jonathan Cone in the 20



### room? 21



### (No response.) 22

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### MS. MORALES: Okay. How about Lil i 1



### Francklyn ? You guys decide who's starting. It 2



### doesn't matter to us. 3



### MS. FRANCKLYN : You may go first. 4


### MR. MCALLISTER: Okay. Is this live? 5



### MS. MORALES: Pus h the button. 6



### MR. MCALLISTER: There we go. Thank you. 7



### I am John McAllister. That's 8



### M

- C

- A

- L

- L

- I

- S

- T

- E

- R. I'm with the Energy Control 9


### and Nocterra Company. We do facility design, and 10



### construction, and renovation. 11


### I am here to voice my support for the 12


### regulations as a good start on addressing both 13


### carbon and the beginnings of methane emissions. 14


### I support the flexibility that's been built into 15


### the state implementation plans. I think that's a 16


### very good start because it's going to be very 17



### different for different regions of the country. 18


### I think it's very important that this is 19


### a very strong statement in addressing air 20


### pollution and the climate impacts thereof, 21


### including visibility and clean sky degradation. 22

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### We

-- I support a mix of generation, and 1



### I th ink it's important that we can see that 2



### Colorado and other areas have already 3


### demonstrated that with a good mix of legislation 4



### and market

- based forces with our investor

- owned 5


### utilities that we've incorporated a substantial 6


### amount of renewable energy effici ency without the 7


### negative impacts on utility rates that many 8



### people have forecast. They're actually lower 9


### than many other places in the country. 10


### New England is another area where they've 11


### demonstrated that this is a viable approach. I 12



### want to look back t o the early '90's when the EPA 13



### and Congress got together to regulate 14



### chloroflu o rocarbons, and we did a type of a cap 15


### and trade thing, and that worked well with it

-- 16


### and again, without the dire rate consequences 17



### that were forecast. 18


### I support the idea agai n that there will 19


### be numerous approaches to generating and

-- 20


### generating the electricity that we need, 21


### including whatever growth is required, and also 22

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### addressing that with energy efficiency and demand 1


### side management resources. 2


### There will be good paying j obs in 3


### addressing the energy efficiency aspects which 4


### this country has barely

-- barely started. The 5



### -- Europe and many other places are way ahead of 6


### us there. I've worked in this industry for 7



### almost 40 years, and personally have seen the 8



### amount of viab le and cost effective savings there 9


### are in renovating and building proper new 10


### buildings. 11


### So I want to just wrap it up by saying 12


### that I do support the implementation of these 13


### rules along with their timetable. And I see good 14


### opportunities for job growth an d support the 15


### global leadership role that these regulations and 16



### the steps for the rest of the world. Thank you. 17



### MS. FRANCKLYN : Good afternoon. My name 18



### is Lil i Francklyn . And I am here to support the 19


### proposed regulations. And Francklyn is spelled 20



### F

- R

- A

- N

- C

- K

- L

- Y

- N. 21


### I worked as a science reporter at 22

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### National Public Radio and National Geographic 1



### Television in the 1980's and the 1990's and have 2


### spent my entire life as a renewable energy 3



### advocate and educator on environmental issues. 4



### I'm also the mother of three young adult 5


### children. I appreciate the opportunity to 6


### testify at these hearings and hope that the 7


### public will support the EPA overwhelmingly. 8



### In 1982 I reported on a group of papers 9



### presented by James Hansen, Roger Ravell e , and 10



### several other sc ienti sts at the American 11



### Association for the Advancement of Science. That 12



### was 32 years ago. 13


### Almost all of the predictions

-- the 14


### climate change predictions I can recall from that 15


### day, which I remember very clearly, have come 16


### true in the past three decade s. During that 30 17



### years I expected a lot more from our government. 18



### I'm thrilled to see that President Obama is the 19


### first U.S. President to take significant steps to 20


### address climate change. 21


### I want to touch on two topics briefly 22

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### today. One has to do wit h the heart and the 1



### other with the head. First the heart

-- just 2


### recently my youngest son said to me, Mom, do you 3


### realize we are the first generation to be looking 4


### at the likely collapse of major planetary 5


### ecosystems within our adult lifetimes. What is 6



### t he point of looking forward to the future? The 7


### only career that makes any sense is eco

8



### terrorism. That's my son. 9


### But this comment made me feel as though 10


### for the first time that we're really stepping 11



### into the emotional shoes of our children's 12


### generation . But what would it really feel like 13


### to be staring down the barrel of such a tragedy? 14



### I still have no clue. 15


### I'm not going to apologize for this 16



### dramatic vision of the future because I think we 17



### all know that we can see it now. We have a 18



### billion dead tree s in the Rocky mountains, dead 19


### from beetle kill. And this phenomenon is 20


### happening way faster than anyone predicted. But 21



### I don't want to talk about weather. Climate 22

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### change is real. 1



### I want to talk about the deceitful and 2


### hypocritical discussion of costs that surrounds 3


### this topic. I'm sick at heart after hearing for 4


### 30 years that coal is cheap or that controlling 5


### the worst coal pollution would cost anything. 6


### People say there would be an impact on the cost 7


### of electricity to consumers because of this EPA 8



### p lan. We are told there will be costs on jobs or 9



### in tax revenues at some two

- bit Colorado county 10


### that has a coal mine or a power plant or that 11


### there will be a cost to the U.S. economy if we 12


### switch to renewable energy. 13



### Well here's what I know about cost of 14


### coal and coal fire power plants. The electric 15



### bill is the least of our worries. The Harvard 16



### Medical School estimates that coal costs in the 17



### U.S. economy

-- coal costs the U.S. economy $150 18


### to $250 billion a year mostly in adverse health 19


### impacts. Even a t the lower estimate it would 20



### double the cost of coal if these costs, which are 21


### disingenuously described as hidden, were taken 22

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### into account. These costs are not hidden, and 1


### they're paid by American families who suffer the 2



### consequences. 3



### Another cost

-- ju st in the past two 4



### years Colorado alone taxpayers have had to foot 5



### the bill for one and a half billion dollars of 6



### insured losses from wildfires. And that doesn't 7


### even include the cost of fighting these fires. 8



### The cost of Colorado's 2013 September 9



### flood i s estimated to top two billion. That's 10


### the cost of climate change in only one state. 11



### And then there are the ecosystem costs 12


### that could be potentially far more catastrophic 13


### but harder to define. And here are just a few: 14



### The billion trees, what's the cos t of that and 15


### who will pay? What is the cost of rapidly 16


### worsening ocean acidification which threatens the 17


### collapse of entire ocean ecosystems? What would 18


### be the cost of losing insects that pollinate our 19


### food crops or the cost of hand pollinating? And 20



### fi nally, to me one of the saddest statistics of 21


### all and the most frightening, many scientists 22

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### have estimated we will lose between a quarter and 1


### a third of the earth's species by 2050 due to the 2


### combined impact of global warming and habitat 3



### loss. This cost i s incalculable. 4



### I wish the EPA and those who are aware of 5


### the consequences of climate change would do a 6


### better job at countering utilities and extractive 7


### industries when they frighten the public with 8


### projections of increased energy costs. 9



### This fear is ab surd when compared with 10



### the real cost of coal. I'm relieved that the 11


### proposed EPA regulations will rectify this 12


### distortion in the marketplace so that it can 13


### begin to reflect the true costs of coal. 14


### MS. MORALES: Thank you both. Eric 15



### Lars e n and C atherine Carruthers ? 16



### MR. LARSEN: Ready? 17



### MS. MORALES: Yes. 18


### MR. LARSEN: My name is Eric Larsen, and 19


### I am a polar explorer, and it's probably a job 20



### that you

-- 21



### MS. MORALES: Would you please spell your 22

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### name for the court reporter? 1



### MR. LARSEN: Sorry. E

- R

- I

- C , 2



### L

- A

- R

- S

- E

- N. I'm a polar explorer, and it's 3


### probably a job that you've never heard about, but 4


### I leave it on my business card because it gets a 5


### lot of interest at dinner parties. 6



### Unfortunately, for me, a lot of people 7



### seem to lean away when I tell them my no

- shower 8



### record currently stands at 72 days. 9



### (Laughter.) 10


### MR. LARSEN: Thanks for laughing, I hope. 11


### Most people are disappointed when they 12


### meet me, but I’m kind of used to it. I'm pretty 13


### much average in every way, shape, and form. 14



### I recently ret urned from an expedition 15


### called Last North which probably may 16


### realistically be the last expedition of its kind 17


### to the geographic north pole. I've completed 18


### more polar expeditions than any other American in 19


### history. In 2006 I completed the first ever 20



### summ er expedition to the North Pole. In 2010 I 21


### completed a world record journey to the North 22

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### Pole, South Pole, and the top of Mount Everest 1


### all in one year. And as I mentioned I recently 2


### just completed the expedition to the North Pole 3


### setting an unsupported speed record. 4



### In the past explorers have famously 5


### quipped because it's there, but my expeditions 6


### really stand in stark contrast. I say because 7


### they may not be there in the future. 8


### I'm not necessarily charting new 9


### territory. I'm discovering these places as they 10


### exist today. And my experience seeing these 11


### places firsthand, the changes are very dramatic. 12


### In my most recent trip, traveling 480 13


### miles from northern Canada to geographic North 14



### Pole we encountered ice conditions that were more 15



### unusual than an y that I've seen in the past 10 16


### years of traveling in the Arctic or Antarctic 17


### regions. The amount of open water, the thinness 18



### of the ice

-- these are all more severe than I 19


### could have ever possibly imagined. 20



### Most people when they meet me ask why, 21



### how, or of what use is any sort of expedition. 22

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### Again, my expeditions are to connect people to 1



### the last great frozen places on the planet. 2


### These places are changing dramatically. 3



### In one sense these adventures are more 4


### about cataloging things like ice and snow for the 5


### record as museum specimens because they most 6


### likely will not exist as they are in the future. 7


### Of what use is any sort of extreme 8


### expedition? In my mind we all need to be 9


### reminded that we have the ability to affect 10


### positive change, that we all ha ve the ability to 11



### make the world a better place. I have a 12


### philosophy that is begin with one step. We all 13


### face seemingly insurmountable challenges in our 14


### life, but if we take those big challenges and 15


### break them up into big

-- into smaller, 16


### manageable piec es, we'd be surprised that we

-- 17


### what we can all accomplish. 18



### We are all average people, but we all 19


### have the ability to do these amazing things. And 20


### we are all explorers. And our job as explorers 21


### in the 21st century is not to go out and conquer 22

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### places, b ut it's more to protect them. And 1


### anything that we can do to help reduce carbon 2


### emissions is a good step in that direction. 3



### Thank you. 4


### MS. CARRUTHERS: Hi, my name is C athy 5



### Carruthers, C

- A

- R

- R

- U

- T

- H

- E

- R

- S. I’m the 6



### President of Environmental Tax Reform West, and 7


### I'm a retired energy economist. I want to thank 8


### you for the work you're doing here today and for 9



### the work on the plan. 10


### I'm going to discuss the potential for a 11


### carbon tax. We would like the EPA to modify the 12



### definition of emission standard to clearly allow 13


### states to tax GHG emission from power plants and 14



### other sources. The Rule could encourage states 15



### to look at this solution. 16



### The current draft rule for power plants 17


### and the original existing implementing rules of 18


### 111(d) do not straightforwardl y allow states to 19


### adopt carbon excess tax as an emission standard. 20



### We value the extensive work and the data 21


### that you have provided as background for the 22

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### decision making and for the regulatory impact 1


### analysis, especially as an economist I know how 2



### much wor k those are. 3


### Given that this rulemaking is data 4


### driven, we are providing some additional data. 5


### This one we did for you guys. It models the 6



### effect of a carbon tax on the United States. And 7


### then we have carbon tax modeling for three 8



### different states that 's already been done. We 9


### request that EPA look at the potential cost 10


### savings available to the states if they choose to 11



### use a revenue neutral carbon tax. 12


### Each of the four studies was done by 13


### Regional Economic Modeling, Incorporated. REMI 14


### is used by many state governments for analysis of 15


### tax policy. 16


### The U.S. study which was done for this 17


### rulemaking relies on Regional Energy Deployment 18


### Systems, REDS, which was developed by NREL, 19


### National Renewable Energy Lab, which the work is 20


### very highly regarded by the power sector. 21


### The first study is for nine regions in 22

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### the United States. It reviews the impact of a 1


### tax equal to the social cost of carbon which is 2


### what you guys used in your

-- in your energy 3


### analysis. This

-- and within your value analysis 4



### benefits. 5



### T he national study shows that a revenue 6



### neutral tax on carbon dioxides will meet the EPA 7


### goals. Compliance costs are reduced if the 8


### carbon tax is coupled with reductions in 9


### corporate and personal income taxes or with an 10



### increase in their income tax credit. 11



### All of the tax rates scenarios from the 12



### social cost of carbon meet the EPA's new carbon 13


### rule goal. Even the low social cost of carbon 14


### scenario creates significant reductions in power 15


### based emissions and meets the requirements of 16



### EPA's new carbon rule by 2027. 17


### When the marginal price of carbon dioxide 18



### would be

-- under this scenario

-- $15.75 per 19



### metric ton in 2012 dollars

-- all scenarios reach 20


### the targeted emission reductions earlier than 21


### required in your rule. 22

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### In addition, this solution improves the 1


### economy, indicating that the cost forecast in the 2


### RIA may be higher than they need to be. All 3



### scenarios increase National Gross Domestic 4



### Product. These studies show also that in the 5



### state studies each

-- each state can benefit from 6



### carbon tax. The tax reductions that fit the 7


### state are different depending on the existing tax 8



### structure. 9



### The state studies also show that 10


### environmental tax reform can improve the economic 11


### activity on most states, including employment. 12



### In short, a carbon tax with reductions in 13



### other taxes for each state may be a faster, 14


### better, cheaper way to obtain the goals that are 15


### in the draft rule. You may get further than you 16



### expect. 17


### Given this set of analyses, we 18


### respectfully request that EPA modify the 19



### definition of the emission sta ndards to clearly 20



### allow for state taxes on GHG emissions. Thank 21



### you. 22

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### I'm giving these to the record. 1



### MS. MORALES: Thanks to both of you. At 2


### the registration desk. 3



### MS. CARRUTHERS: Yes. 4



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Next we have 5



### Harold Bidlack and Rick G ordon. 6



### MR. BIDLACK: Well, g ood afternoon. My 7



### name is Hal B idlak, B

- I

- D

- L

- A

- C

- K. I’m a Fellow 8


### with the American Security Project. I appear 9


### before you today as a private individual. I'm 10


### not speaking on behalf of my employer or anyone 11



### else other than AS P. 12



### By way of background I was honored to 13


### spend more than 25 years in uniform, retiring 14



### from the United States Air Force as a Lieutenant 15



### Colonel in 2006. I hold a Ph.D. from the 16


### University of Michigan where my research focused 17


### on environmental security. While on temporary 18


### duty at the National Security Council at the 19


### White House I worked on climate change issues, 20



### and in 1997 was the author of the first draft of 21


### the DOD Statement of the Impact of Climate Change 22

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### on National Security, a subject that I also 1


### taught at the Air Force Academy. 2


### I began my military career as a missile 3


### launch officer, one of the finger

- on

- the

- button 4



### people up at F. E

. Warren Air Force Base in 5


### Wyoming. And my service in the Air Force taught 6



### me we shouldn't wait to address looming t hreats. 7



### Then our adversaries were the Cold War. 8



### Now we face a gauntlet of threats to the 9


### national security ranging from extremists and 10



### non

- state actors, the traditional warfare, 11


### dangerous civil wars and beyond. I believe that 12


### climate change represents a clear and present 13


### danger to U.S. national security. 14



### For far too long far too many of 15



### America's leaders have failed to address the 16


### challenges of climate change. And this failure 17


### of leadership means that we're behind in 18


### addressing the problem. 19



### The milita ry increasingly understands the 20



### true nature of this threat. The DOD in the 2014 21


### Quadrennial Defense Review noted that the direct 22

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### effects of climate change created problems for 1


### military planning, training, and operations. 2


### I believe climate change creates three 3


### distinct challenges for the Pentagon. First, 4


### climate change is the global threat multiplier. 5


### That means it will make already

- existing problems 6


### worse and more dangerous. The effects of climate 7


### change around the world will cause resources such 8



### as fo od, water, and energy to become more scarce 9


### as the effects of climate change worsen. And 10



### states will seek to secure resources for their 11


### own populations at the expense of their 12


### neighbors. And while conflict is not inevitable, 13


### it is possible and I think pr obable. 14


### And it's not just the future we're 15


### talking about. Extreme weather events have 16


### already demanded a military response. Over 17



### 13,000 soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen 18


### from the USS George Washington's battle group 19



### responded when Typhoon H aiyan ma de landfall in 20



### the Phili p pines and they saved lives. 21


### Second, climate change will affect 22

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### Homeland Security. And that is a growing 1


### military mission. Where our active duty troops 2


### provide logistical aid, humanitarian relief. law 3



### enforcement support, and oth er aid to civilian 4



### authorities. 5


### In 2012 active duty and National Guard 6



### troops responded to New York and New Jersey after 7


### Hurricane Sandy, and these types of operations 8



### grow as extreme weather events grow across our 9


### country. And again, the associated cost s will 10



### continue to rise. 11


### And incidentally, you don't have to go to 12


### the Arctic to see the effects of climate change. 13


### It's happening here in Colorado. Climate change 14


### threatens the region's agriculture, water supply, 15



### tourism, timber, bedrocks of our econom y. Here 16


### in Colorado warmer winters have already given 17


### invasive species and pests more time to destroy 18


### our forests. Annual precipitation has declined 19


### and become more variable which led to droughts 20


### and wildfires followed by torrents of rain and 21



### massive mu dslides. 22

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### The Waldo Canyon fire came within a 1


### quarter mile of my home while consuming 346 2


### others. And the next year the Black Forest fire 3



### took 486 more. Both fires claimed lives. 4


### And while no single weather event is 5


### proven climate change, the evidence o f an unusual 6



### weather event after an unusual weather event adds 7


### up to strong evidence that our climate is 8



### changed. 9



### Third, climate change is a threat to our 10


### military bases at home and around the world. The 11


### United States military manages property in all 50 12


### state, 7 U.S. territories, and 40 foreign 13


### countries, comprising almost 300,000 individual 14


### buildings around the globe with a value in excess 15


### of $600 billion. 16


### Rising sea levels have already caused 17


### millions of dollars of damage to Naval coastal 18



### installations , but they're not alone. Wildfires 19


### this year at the Marine's Camp Pendleton caused 20


### evacuations while the Army has seen events

-- 21


### extreme rain events I should say, washed out 22

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### areas of the Nationa l Training Center at Fort 1



### Irwin, but at

-- across the taxpaye rs the 2


### military is adapting. 3


### In summary, reducing greenhouse gases 4


### while implementing measures to adapt to the 5


### effects of climate change is basic risk 6


### management. Military planners routinely operate 7


### under uncertainty and make decisions based on 8


### incomplet e information. 9



### In 2001 then Vice

- President Dick Chaney 10


### said if there's only a one

- percent chance of a 11


### terrorist acquiring weapons of mass destruction, 12



### we have to act today. When over 99 percent of 13


### scientific papers are telling us that human 14



### emissions are causing climate change, why is it 15


### that too many leaders dismiss this science? 16


### If we fail in addressing climate change, 17


### we know that our military will have to respond to 18



### more disasters more often. Terrorists will have 19



### more recruits to recruit from, and t he world will 20


### see more conflict over increasing scarce 21


### resources. Americans will pay the price for 22

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### generations to come. 1



### I support the proposed rule, and I thank 2


### you for your time. 3


### MR. GORDON: Good afternoon. My name is 4



### Rick Gordon. I have a

-- I’m so rry? 5



### MS. MORALES: Would you please

-- 6



### MR. GORDON: Rick Gordon. Yes. R

- I

- C

- K, 7



### G

- O

- R

- D

- O

- N. I have a local independent 8


### insurance agency. In addition I have the honor 9


### of serving as Chairman of the Board of Directors 10



### for Tri

- State Generation and Transm ission 11


### Association. I appreciate the opportunity to 12


### provide the organization's initial thoughts on 13


### the Environmental Protection Agency's proposed 14



### Clean Power Plan. 15



### Tri

- State is a not

- for

- profit wholesale 16


### electric power cooperative providing electric 17



### powe r to 44 rural electric cooperatives and their 18



### 1.5 million members in Colorado, Nebraska, New 19


### Mexico, and Wyoming. We use a diverse mix of 20


### generation sources, including coal, natural gas, 21


### hydro electric, wind, and solar. We also own or 22

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### operate more than 5 ,200 miles of transmission 1


### lines across our service territory. 2


### As a cooperative, all of Tri

- State's 3


### costs, including complying with regulations like 4


### the Clean Power Plan are paid for by our member 5


### owners. This is an important point because we 6



### serve a wid e array of customers in our service 7


### territory, including areas experiencing great 8


### economic expansion through the development of 9


### natural gas. We have some of the most fertile 10


### agricultural land in the country. And we have 11


### some of the poorest communities in rural Colorado 12



### -- or rural America that we serve in our four 13



### states. 14


### The cost to comply with these rules which 15


### some have suggested will be in the billions of 16


### dollars will be paid by farmers trying to 17


### irrigate their fields and others in rural America 18


### tryi ng to make end meet. 19


### We are supportive of efforts to address 20


### air quality as evidenced by our recent 21


### announcement to add additional air quality 22

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### controls to our Craig Station Power Plant, but we 1


### have concerns with any proposal that, number one, 2



### does not p rovide a reasonable timeline to comply 3


### and that has costs of compliance greater than any 4



### environmental benefit. 5



### Tri

- State's staff is in the process of 6


### analyzing the impacts of the proposal. We are 7


### working closely with our National Organization, 8



### the Natio nal Rural Electric Cooperative 9


### Association and other trade groups to leverage 10



### our resources and get the best legal and 11


### technical analysis completed. We are also 12


### working with state agencies in each of the states 13


### that we operate in. 14


### Despite dedicating sign ificant staff and 15


### resources to assessing the proposal, at this time 16


### it is impossible to accurately determine the 17


### impact to Tri

- State and its members or if the 18


### plan is feasible as proposed. 19



### Tri

- State's written comments to the EPA 20



### will be much more extensiv e, but our initial 21


### analysis has raised several concerns that we hope 22

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### to highlight today and address by working with 1


### the EPA state agencies and others in the 2


### industry. 3



### Number one, there was no consideration of 4


### our cooperative model. Tri

- State and its memb ers 5



### are not for

- profit cooperatives. Our member 6


### owners bear all costs of generation and 7


### compliance. EPA provides no past account for 8


### cooperative's ability to recover fast. 9


### Cooperatives are also relying on coal 10


### generation which was encouraged through a f ederal 11


### ban on the use of natural gas for electric 12


### generation from the late 1970's to the mid 13



### 1980's, a time when Tri

- State was expanding 14



### greatly to meet the needs of our members. 15


### Also, a huge source of our emission

- free 16


### electricity available to cooperativ es, the 17


### Federal Hydro Power, is ignored by the plan. If 18


### large hydro power were considered by the federal 19


### government, Tri

- State's power supply would be 20 20



### percent. We already

-- we are already 20 percent 21


### non carbon emitting. 22

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### Our second concern is EPA may not have 1


### the legal authority. The EPA relies on 2


### interpretation of a rarely used section of the 3



### Clean Air Act, Section 111(d), as the basis to 4


### regulate carbon dioxide across a wide spectrum of 5


### the utility industry. Because the proposal is so 6



### outside hist oric EPA authority, undoubtedly there 7


### will be legal challenges to all or portions of 8


### the rule and will impact already tight 9


### guidelines. 10


### Our third concern is the proposal expands 11


### EPA authority. This rule is ambitious by any 12



### measure and regulates numerous activities that 13


### other federal and state agencies currently have 14


### authority for. Because the rule is not passed by 15


### Congress, a unilateral expansion by the EPA 16



### raises concerns how other federal and state 17


### agencies will respond. 18



### Our fourth concern is the stat e's 19



### processes and resources. Much of the proposed 20


### rule relies on states to develop and implement 21



### state

- specific plans and regulate areas that they 22

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### have not in the past. States are not staffed to 1


### implement the rule without additional funding and 2


### authority that would need to be appropriated for 3


### the legislative process. 4



### Our fifth concern is there's no 5


### consideration given to transmission and pipeline 6


### construction. The expanded use of natural gas 7


### and renewables prescribed in the proposed rule 8


### would require t he addition of thousands of miles 9


### of transmission lines and pipelines which we 10


### question could ever be built. 11



### Now, as most utilities in the west are 12


### seeing, Tri

- State has found it challenging to 13


### gain approval and construct new transmission 14


### lines. Our expe rience has been that it can take 15


### 8 to 10 years to get a transmission line 16


### permitted. And in some cases we are denied 17


### permits. 18



### In conclusion, as I mentioned earlier, 19



### Tri

- State will submit written comments on the 20


### plan to further expand on these and other i ssues. 21


### I thank you very much today for the opportunity 22

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### to be here. Thank you very much. 1



### (Buzzer sounded.) 2



### MS. MORALES: Thank you both. 3


### John Graves and Elizabeth House, please 4



### come to the front. Is Elizabeth House in the 5



### audience? 6



### (No response.) 7



### MS . MORALES: Okay. Next up, Robert 8



### Howell. 9


### MR. GRAVES: Good afternoon. My name is 10


### John Graves, and I am the Environmental Manager 11



### for Minnkota Power Cooperative based in Grand 12



### Forks, North Dakota. 13



### MS. MORALES: Would you please spell your 14



### name for the court reporter? 15



### MR. GRAVES: J

- O

- H

- N, G

- R

- A

- V

- E

- S. 16


### And I am making these comments on 17



### Minnkota's behalf. 18


### Minnkota is a generation and transmission 19


### cooperative owned by 11 member owned distribution 20


### cooperatives. Our members serve more than 21



### 118,000 custom ers in eastern North Dakota and 22

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### northwestern Minnesota. 1


### Minnkota also serves as an operating 2


### agent for Northern Municipal Power Agency. 3


### Northern Municipal Power Agency supplies the 4


### electric needs of 12 associated municipals in the 5


### same geographic area as Minnkota. 6


### Minnkota operates two coal fired EGUs in 7


### North Dakota and represents Northern Municipal 8



### Power Agency's 30 percent share of another EGU 9



### located in North Dakota. 10



### Minnkota has been a leader in renewable 11



### energy. Renewable energy makes up 29 perce nt of 12


### our generation capacity. The EPA proposed Clean 13


### Power Plan has generated more questions than it 14


### has provided answers for. There are many areas 15


### of concern, but I will only elaborate on a few. 16



### First concern is that the EPA has based 17


### the required CO2 reductions upon the reductions 18


### potentially available by the states utilizing 19


### four building blocks. Of those four building 20



### blocks three of them are outside the fence which 21


### may not be permissible under Section 111(d) of 22

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### the Clean Air Act. 1


### The guidelines r equire the states to 2



### submit their SIP s to the EPA by June of 2016, 3



### although a one

- year extension is possible. Even 4



### with the extension this time frame is too short. 5



### Most states took three years to prepare a SIP for 6


### the Regional Haze Program which is relat ively

-- 7


### a relatively straightforward program compared to 8


### this proposed program. States need more time. 9


### The question of what state can take 10


### credit for energy produced by renewable energy is 11


### an extremely important one. Does the state in 12



### which the renewab le generation occurs get credit 13


### for that generation, or does the state in which 14


### the utility that receives or purchases the 15


### designated power from that generation get credit 16


### for that generation? 17



### The EPA calculated the state limits on 18



### the basis of the state in which the wind 19


### generation was located as getting the credit for 20


### that generation. If a state that receives the 21


### renewable energy gets to claim credit for it, 22

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### they

-- then they should also have to claim the 1


### CO2 from fossil fueled units designated to 2



### gener ate power for that state. 3


### We believe the simplest and most workable 4



### scenario is for states to claim all of the 5


### renewable energy within their borders and the CO2 6


### produced within their state regardless of the 7


### ownership of the energy. 8



### The EPA calculated CO2 emissions 9


### utilizing a 6 percent heat rate improvement from 10


### coal fired plants. We question whether this is 11


### achievable. The items mentioned in the report on 12


### which this 6 percent number is based have largely 13


### been accomplished by EGUs previously. They have 14


### done the steam turbine replacements and other 15



### heat

- rate improvement projects. But improvements 16


### that are remaining are those projects that are 17


### not economically justifiable. 18


### Minnkota will be submitting these and 19


### additional comments in writing later in the 20


### comment period. I thank you for your attention. 21


### MS. MORALES: Will you turn off your 22

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### speaker? Thank you. 1


### MR. HOWELL: My name is Robert Howell, 2



### spelled H

- O

- W

- E

- L

- L. I'm a retired physicist and 3


### software engineer from

-- and I live in 4



### Bernalillo, New M exico. 5


### I'm here to support the regulations but 6


### with a couple of possible additional points. I 7


### feel that climate change is no longer something 8


### that is mainly going to be experienced by our 9


### children and grandchildren. It is now happening 10


### in our present wo rld. And it is contributing to 11


### the prolonged drought in some places, the extreme 12



### rainfalls in others, and there are more severe 13


### hurricanes like Super Storm Sandy. The sea 14


### levels are rising and the average global 15



### temperatures have gone up by 1.3 degrees C elsius 16



### since about 1900. 17


### Fortunately, the proposed regulations on 18


### which we are commenting today would require 30 19


### percent reduction of CO2 emission levels from 20


### those in 2005 by 2030. This is a big step in the 21


### right direction. 22

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### What factors about New Mexic o are 1


### important and not the same as many other states? 2


### In New Mexico it has strong potential and the use 3


### of solar energy. And New Mexico is experiencing 4


### an extensive drought. Researchers at Sandia 5


### National Laboratory considered impacts of 6


### temperature in creases and precipitation declines 7


### on a half dozen industries with the greatest 8


### water consumption such as the large coal fired 9


### power plants in New Mexico's Four Corners area 10



### which uses massive amounts of water. 11


### The study found that the economic damage 12



### fro m increasing water scarcity and cost would be 13


### spread widely throughout the rest of the state's 14


### economy. The study found New Mexico to be among 15


### the U.S. states with the largest percentage 16


### losses in income and employment. 17


### One key factor seems to be lacking 18


### sufficient coverage in the EPA Clean Power 19


### proposal. Well, there seems to be no attempt in 20


### the proposal to minimize the usage of water and 21


### simultaneously balance the sources of energy 22

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### generation to best reduce CO2. But this could be 1



### done as part of dete rmining the best system for 2



### emissions reduction. 3



### In a state like New Mexico it would make 4



### sense to use more renewable zero emission to NOx 5


### contribution and thus less fossil fuel generation 6


### of electricity, thereby reducing the use of 7



### water. 8



### PNM, that's th e Public Service Company of 9



### New Mexico, to eliminate a Haze condition into 10


### Mexico proposed to eliminate two units of coal 11


### fired plants at the San Juan site. And part of 12


### their proposal offered to have renewables at 12 13


### percent of the electricity generation portfolio; 14


### but a counterproposal written by David Robertson 15



### of the Sierra Club asked PNM to boost renewables 16


### to 30 percent in their plant. His calculations 17


### indicated it would be possible to decrease the 18


### water consumption of the total power plants in 19



### the p ortfolio below PNM's plan value by 26 20



### percent. 21


### Another key factor in determining the 22

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### cost of the power plant is the final requirement 1


### for disposal of coal ash. This is a decision to 2


### be finalized by December 2014

. 3


### New regulations for coal combustion 4



### resi duals could force further new investments in 5


### New Mexico to support coal fired plants. Again, 6



### it makes sense to consider more renewables 7


### replacing coal fire generation to mitigate the 8


### impact of coal ash. 9


### What science requires for the human race 10



### to survive is in the right direction as it is 11


### addressed in this Clean Power Plan but not enough 12


### to get us there in the long run. 13


### The proposal by the EPA is a good first 14


### step; however, having the Clean Power Plan 15


### address the issue of drought in trying to 16


### mitigate th e economic impact by increasing the 17


### percentages of renewables for the state portfolio 18



### should be considered. 19



### MS. MORALES: Thanks to both of you. 20


### Would you mind turning off the mike? Thank you. 21



### Next up Jod i Jones and a second call for 22

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### Elizabeth House if she's in the audience? 1



### (No response.) 2



### MS. MORALES: How about James White? 3


### MS. JONES: Hello, my name is Jodi Jones. 4



### That's J

- O

- D

- I, J

- O

- N

- E

- S. I moved to Colorado a 5


### couple years ago from West Virginia to study 6


### environmental policy. 7



### I am here today because the more I learn 8


### about climate change, the more I realize the 9


### enormity of what is at stake. It is not just 10


### about cutting our carbon emissions. It is much 11



### more than that. 12


### It is about protecting the delicate 13


### balance between species to survive and protecting 14


### the natural world for which we are dependent. It 15


### is about reducing pollution related illnesses and 16


### curbing the effects of climate change. This is 17


### about people's lives. 18


### As a young girl growing up in West 19


### Virginia I developed a kinship for wil d places. 20


### I played in streams; I admired mountains, caught 21


### fireflies, and breathed fresh air. My world was 22

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### pretty simple. 1


### When I got older, I realized that 2


### environmental policies had failed to protect the 3


### landscapes I admired, had failed to protect the 4


### streams that I played in, and failed to protect 5



### the air that I breathe. 6



### We have a chance to protect our 7


### environment, protect our health, and move forward 8


### to curb the effects of climate disruption. We 9


### have been acting like we have all the time in the 10



### worl d to act, but we don't have time. We must 11


### transition away from dangerous polluting power 12


### plants and increase our renewable energy 13


### production starting now. 14


### You will hear a lot of people tell you 15


### today that this plan will destroy the economy and 16


### kill jobs. In truth this plan will create more 17


### clean energy jobs. It will add more clean jobs 18


### just like the 3,600 solar jobs already here in 19



### Colorado. 20



### I believe the cost of inaction is much 21


### greater. We cannot fail to act. It is not even 22

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### about my children or my children's children's 1


### future. Climate change and carbon pollution is 2


### already affecting us now. It's already here. 3


### Colorado faces many environmental 4


### challenges from water scarcity and severe 5


### droughts to wildflowers

-- wildfires

-- all which 6



### will be furth er exacerbated by a changing climate 7


### caused by carbon emissions yet no protections 8


### currently exist to limit the amount of carbon 9



### that can be released by the largest carbon 10


### polluter, power plants. It is time for our 11



### leaders to demonstrate they care about o ur future 12


### and support strong carbon pollution protections. 13


### I am here today because I believe that we 14


### are at a critical time in our history, a pivotal 15


### point where decisions we make today will 16


### determine the severity of our changing climate. I 17



### believe that w e should choose clean air over 18


### dangerous pollution. We should choose clean 19


### renewable energy over dirty and dangerous power 20



### plants. 21



### We know the problem before us. We know 22

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### what needs to be done. We need to start that 1


### transition now. Climate change is re al. It's 2


### happening, and we are all in this together. What 3


### we do now is deciding what kind of world we are 4


### going to have. We need to support the Clean 5



### Power Plan and ensure a strong standard on carbon 6


### pollution. Thank you. 7



### MR. WHITE: Thank you. My na me is Jim 8



### White. That's J

- I

- M, W

- H

- I

- T

- E. And I am here 9


### in support of the proposal. 10


### I would like to begin by thanking you for 11


### the opportunity to testify today on such a far

12


### reaching and important matter. I am here today 13


### both as a person of science and a person of faith 14


### testifying on behalf of the Lutheran Advocacy 15


### Ministry

- Colorado, a ministry of the 16


### Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. I am a 17


### full professor at the University of Colorado and 18



### spent my 30

- year research career studying past 19



### climates using ice course, the workings of the 20


### world's large ice sheets, and the carbon cycle. 21


### That showed some interesting problems 30 years 22

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### ago. 1


### I have offered over 150 peer review 2


### publications, and I am a highly cited author 3


### which is the top one

- half of one pe rcent of all 4


### authors in my field. 5



### I have chaired committees for the 6


### National Academy of Sciences as well as Lutheran 7


### Campus Ministry. I am, in short, one of those 8


### annoying climate scientists that have said that 9


### there is a problem that you guys have to s olve. 10


### Our planet's climate is changing, and 11


### humans are driving those changes by the release 12



### of vast amounts of greenhouse gases to the 13


### atmosphere. The physics behind the link between 14


### greenhouse gases and climate are simple as are 15


### the physics between the links between a warmer 16


### climate and much higher sea levels and a dryer 17


### west to name but two repercussions. 18



### We, in the west, will suffer from water 19



### shortages, and we cannot afford that. In the 20


### coming decades and centuries low lying coastal 21



### areas like Miami will have to be abandoned to the 22

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### sea, creating lasting and rather ironic monuments 1



### to our inaction. 2


### But at its core climate change is, I 3



### believe, a moral issue. And it is to this that I 4


### wish to speak. The first moral issue is how we 5



### treat our children. We live on a water planet. 6


### And again, simple physics tells us that it will 7



### take decades for the ocean to warm and fully 8


### express the climate that goes with our current 9


### high levels of greenhouse gases. This creates an 10


### intergenerational inequity. 11



### What we do, our children will have to 12


### deal with. And what they do, their children will 13


### have to deal with and so forth. We all say that 14


### we love our kids, but how to we truly show it. 15


### Until one generation can set aside the lure of 16



### short

- term gains for the long

- term profit of 17


### their children, the cycle will never be broken. 18


### We need to express our love for our children in 19


### the very tangible way that the Clean Power Plan 20


### provides. 21



### A second moral issue to consider is the 22

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### disproportional impact that climate has on p oorer 1


### people who have less capacity to adapt to issues 2



### such as sea level rise, access to clean water, 3


### access to secure food supplies as well as dealing 4


### with the obvious problems of heat waves and 5


### droughts. How do we, the rich, square this with 6



### our ethical obligation to those in need? 7


### Speaking on behalf of myself, I will say 8


### that Christ was clear. Whatever you did not do 9


### for the least of these, you did not do for me. 10


### Our relationship with the planet itself 11



### also clearly presents a moral problem for us. We 12


### are charged with the stewardship of God's 13


### creation and so must always be asking ourselves 14


### are we good stewards. The facts say that while 15



### we try

-- thank you EPA

-- we come up short. And 16


### we must face those shortcomings. 17


### Species extinctions are rising rapidly 18


### around the globe. Every species has its place in 19



### God's beautiful mosaic that we call our 20


### environment. A lost species is lost forever. 21


### And we must be held accountable for every species 22

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### that we lose whether that is by our actions or by 1



### our inactio ns. If we do not hold ourselves 2



### accountable, I believe God will. 3


### The proposed Clean Power Plan will not 4



### fully address the problems that create the moral 5


### struggles we now face, but these regulations are 6


### a start, a start that is achievable and promises 7



### to break the current stranglehold that keeps us 8


### from facing reality as well as our obligations to 9



### our fellow humans as well as the planet. 10


### As a final thought, let's consider the 11


### considerable positive benefits of the Clean Power 12


### Plan. By taking action we sho w love for our 13


### children and grandchildren, care for those in 14



### need, and we care for God's creation that he has 15


### so lovingly provided for us

-- not bad outcomes 16


### for doing the right thing. Let's do it. Thank 17



### you. 18



### MS. MORALES: Thank you both. 19



### Now Robert N emanich . And one last offer, 20



### Elizabeth House? 21



### MR. NEMANICH : Thank you for the 22

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### opportunity to speak to you regarding the Clean 1


### Power Proposed Rule. My name is Robert Nemanich, 2



### spelled N

- E

- M

- A

- N

- I

- C

- H. 3


### I am an ordinary citizen, husband 20 4



### years, father of two, and educator in the areas 5



### of science and mathematics as well as educated in 6


### the fields of political science and economics and 7


### have worked in the clinical trials industry, but 8


### I'm no subject matter expert. 9


### Briefly, I'm associated with a group 10



### call ed Southwest Colorado Renewable Society, 11


### originally CRES where I'm involved in seeking the 12


### decommissioning of Colorado Springs' Martin Drake 13


### Power Plant, but I'm not here representing that 14


### or any other organization. I'm only speaking on 15



### my own behalf. 16



### Th e proposed Clean Rule

-- Power Rule to 17


### reduce carbon emissions by 30 percent is 18


### welcomed, and I support it. I just want to this 19



### started . And even an ordinary educator, like 20


### myself, doing the math can figure out that it 21


### merely brings pollution tonnage bac k to the early 22

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### 1980's. 1


### The Clean Air Task Force published an 2


### extensive study using peer review scientific 3


### methodologies and

-- which was accepted by this 4


### and other federal agencies. And it determined 5


### that presently coal fired emissions cause or 6



### contribut e to premature deaths of over 13,000 7


### people annually, and estimate that

-- and 8


### estimate that the U.S. Societal cost annually in 9


### health care and lost work days due to sicknesses 10


### is over $100 million. 11


### Prior to the passage of the Affordable 12



### Care Act otherwis e affectionately known as 13


### Obamacare, this loss was primarily the burden of 14


### disadvantaged or risk members, private insurers, 15



### and other entities. But now because of the ACA, 16



### the societal cost is

-- is the public's burden 17


### because we are supposed to be carryi ng the 18


### insurance for everybody. 19


### Thus, pollution is now a tangible item, 20


### and it's something that is an economic cost that 21


### should be placed on a generation of any power 22

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### plant. 1


### But let's take a look at Colorado Springs 2


### as a specific example. We have a coal fired 3


### clunker located in the middle of part of our 4



### downtown, and the real issue is that this summer 5



### we had a fire, a structural fire that took down 6


### the operation of the plant

-- at least two

- thirds 7


### of it. They had to raise the rates immediately 8



### by 7 perc ent. 9


### Last year the municipality was approached 10


### with a proposal of wind power that would

-- that 11


### would provide one

- third of the power at two cents 12



### -- a two

- percent increase in rates. They turned 13



### it down. 14


### Now the salient point is this: The 15



### leaders of the community were frozen because of 16


### that minute increase that they had to make a 17


### decision on, though they did not have to make a 18


### decision when the plant was closed because they 19


### still had to get power from the open market. 20


### Further, we found as we're investig ating 21


### the plant that the peak times in which that plant 22

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### is used is in April, May, and October

-- at a 1


### time that seasonally has the least amount of 2


### demand. Why? Because the power was being 3



### exported to other states. 4



### If you place a rule on the State of 5



### Col orado saying it has to lower its emissions by 6


### 30 percent, that kind of business practice cannot 7


### be justifiable. 8


### Further, if you place a rule that we 9


### lower emissions by 30 percent, I could do the 10


### simple math and say that I have 15 plants. We 11



### probably have to close three

-- three of the 12


### oldest, three of the least productive. 13



### Further, to try to get that

-- keep that 14


### plant viable, they have to invest now $170 15



### million in scrubbers which even their own 16


### engineers are questioning whether it's going to 17



### meet the s tandards of the EPA to reach it. 18


### So by bringing this rule and forcing the 19


### states to make decisions, they're going to make 20


### decisions where courage, they couldn't. And this 21


### would be good because wind power right now is 22

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### costing about the same as mass coal p ower. And 1



### here we are in the State of Colorado. 2


### I support this plan. I hope you go 3


### forward and I hope you take it to zero emissions 4



### by 2060. Thank you. 5


### MS. MORALES: Thank you. So, just a 6


### reminder, if you're interested in presenting 7


### testimony, you do need to register at our 8


### registration desk. So if anybody hasn't done 9


### that at this time or you would like to continue 10


### speaking, you still do need to go back out. 11


### We're trying to do people in order as they've 12


### registered, and so they kind of have a time fr ame 13



### of when they'd be able to come up here and meet 14


### all your busy lives. 15


### So at this point I guess we'll close. 16


### We'll just take a brief recess and see if we get 17


### any more participants that would like to present 18


### testimony. Probably 10 minutes to see where 19



### we're at. 20



### (Brief recess.) 21



### MS. MORALES: Okay. If everybody would 22

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### please take your seat, we're going to start up 1


### again. We have got some more people who would 2


### like to give testimony. 3


### First one up is Peter Fiekowsky and then 4



### Ronnie Cintron

- Fink . Is Ron nie in the room

-- 5



### Cintron

- Fink? 6



### (No response.) 7


### MR. FIEKOWSKY: My name is Peter 8


### Fiekowsky, F

- I

- E

- K

- O

- W

- S

- K

- Y. I'm involved here 9


### with Citizens Climate Lobby. I’m a physicist and 10


### owner of a software company. I live and work in 11



### Los Altos, California, th e heart of Silicon 12



### Valley. 13


### My message is that EPA should include a 14



### carbon tax as a key method that the states can 15


### use for compliance with the carbon rule. 16


### Specifically, EPA should modify the definition of 17


### emissions standard clearly to allow and encourage 18


### state taxes on greenhouse gas emissions. 19


### Other speakers have discussed the carbon 20


### tax and how it can be implemented, the benefits 21


### it provides. I will speak about why the time has 22

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### finally come to enable and encourage states to 1


### implement a carbon tax. 2



### F rom the first discussions about global 3


### warming in the 1970's economists, scientists, and 4


### the politicians have unanimously said that the 5



### best solution is a carbon tax. The EPA 6


### regulations we are discussing here are generally 7



### considered to be clever and con voluted ways to 8


### put a price on carbon. 9



### If the best method is a carbon tax, then 10


### why is that not included as an option in the 11



### Power Plan? I can't speak for EPA, but I can 12


### report on conversations I've had with IPC 13



### scientists and editorial writers. 14



### Althoug h they agree that a carbon tax is 15


### the most efficient and easy to implement 16


### solution, they assume that Washington will never 17


### do the right thing, so they recommend 18


### alternatives. In my

-- in my state, California, 19


### that alternative is cap and trade which has 20



### s eldom been able to put a significant price on 21



### carbon. 22

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### Why do we say that now is the time to 1


### allow and encourage states to implement carbon 2



### taxes? One, over the last year there have been 3


### studies that you've seen for the REMI Studies 4


### showing that revenue n eutral carbon tax benefits 5



### states and national economies. Results from 6



### British Columbia's carbon tax corroborates those 7


### studies showing that

-- showing the expected 8


### decrease in emissions and increase in jobs. 9


### Second, most Californians now prefer 10



### carbon t ax to cap and trade. Fifty

- eight 11


### percent, 51 percent, according to a PPIC study 12


### that I'll give you that came out just last week. 13


### Third, major oil companies such as 14


### ExxonMobil and Shell now say on their websites 15


### that they want a price on carbon, and they prefer 16



### revenue neutral carbon tax when we do that. And 17



### I'll discuss that more in a moment. 18


### Finally, comments in opposition to a 19


### revenue neutral carbon tax almost unanimously 20


### site their reason that it will never get passed. 21



### So it's not a functional reaso n, just a simple 22

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### resignation. 1


### So one of the major benefits of a state 2



### carbon tax is that they encourage Congress to 3


### implement a good national carbon tax through the 4


### demands of interstate corporations who want a 5


### uniform and simple rules for doing business. 6


### And, of course, you've heard earlier 7



### about the benefits of the national carbon tax, 8


### the 2.2 million new jobs, GDP increase, 13,000 9


### lives saved per year, and, of course, 33 percent 10


### emissions reduction in just 10 years. 11



### A revenue neutral carbon tax is the only 12


### proposed emissions solution which provides 13


### significant economic benefits plus emission 14


### reductions beyond the EPA requirements. 15


### A second major benefit of a state or 16


### national carbon tax is that predictability. And 17



### this is the reason that Mobil

-- Exx onMobil and 18



### Shell want a revenue neutral carbon tax. Prices 19


### that are predictable into the future are major 20


### advantages for business. Predictability allows 21


### businesses and their investors to confidently 22

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### invest in a new future. The pricing uncertainty 1



### from cap and trade discourages long term 2


### investment in clean energy because return on 3


### investment is unpredictable. 4


### That unpredictability causes executives 5


### to continually delay innovative investment, 6


### hoping the future will someday be more certain. 7



### And you can see that pattern of delay in new oil 8


### and utility companies over the last 20 years. 9


### They've tried, and they've given up because it's 10


### unpredictable. 11



### Now that we have data from British 12



### Columbia, the recent REMI studies, and now that 13


### the media is promoting s olution which is good for 14


### the economy and good for the environment the L.A. 15


### Times published editorial pieces on July 14th and 16


### 21st promoting the revenue neutral carbon tax. 17


### The Saturday Mercury News, my paper, published an 18


### op ed earlier this month promoti ng a national 19


### carbon tax. And nationally there have been over 20


### 20 op eds and a hundred letters to the editor 21


### promoting this carbon tax each month this year. 22

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### So there's a lot of media in favor of revenue 1



### neutral carbon tax. The tide has turned. It's 2



### time for

-- to promote the solution which 3


### everyone agrees is the best solution. 4



### So, please make

-- well, so the specific 5


### request is include a carbon tax as a method the 6


### states can use for compliance with the carbon 7



### rule. Thank you very much. 8



### MS. MORALES: T hank you. We'll have to 9



### turn on your. 10



### MS. CITRON

- FINK : I have to turn it on? 11



### MS. MORALES: Yes. Here you go. 12



### MS. CITRON

- FINK : Okay. Good afternoon. 13


### My name is Ronnie Citron

- Fink . I've traveled 14



### from New York to speak as a parent, a teacher, 15



### and a representative of Moms Clean Air Force, a 16


### community of hundreds and thousands of parents

-- 17



### MS. MORALES: Can you please spell your 18



### name

-- 19



### MS. CITRON

- FINK: Oh, the last name? 20



### MS. MORALES:

-- before you keep going

-- 21



### for the court reporter? Yes. 22

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### MS. CITRON

- FINK: C

- I

- T

- R

- O

- N

- dash

- F, as 1



### in Frank

- I

- N

- K. Sorry about that. 2


### I'm a representative of Moms Clean Air 3


### Force, a community of hundreds and thousands of 4


### parents who believe the biggest stakeholders in 5



### the Clean Power Plan are our children. 6



### Our mem bers know that if we continue to 7


### allow carbon to be spewed into the air unchecked, 8


### we will be leaving our children an uncertain, 9



### unhealthy, and unsafe future. When I started 10


### with Moms Clean Air Force over three years ago, I 11



### was keenly aware that the Clean Air Act was a 12


### major public health success. Like all parents, I 13


### felt strongly that I would do anything to protect 14


### my family, but I was worried that delving deep 15


### into stacks and stacks of reports, regulations, 16


### and cost analysis associated with childhood 17



### as thma, cancer, and infant mortality would leave 18


### me glazed over and paralyzed with fear. That 19


### Didn't happen. 20


### It wasn't the reports and statistics or 21


### even the insane politics that seemed to put 22

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### profits over people that stopped me dead in my 1



### tracks. It was the stories that I heard every 2


### single day from parents with infants, toddlers, 3


### school kids, and teenagers. It was the stories 4


### of moms like Wendy from Indiana who couldn't let 5


### her two year old go out to play because she lives 6



### within a 62

- mile radius of 17 coal fired power 7


### plants. Her neighbor's kids have asthma, and she 8



### doesn't want her baby to become another 9



### statistic. 10


### I joined Wendy when she visited her 11


### senator in Washington and asked if he would 12


### support common sense standards to limit pollution 13



### from hi s state's power plants. She asked if he 14


### cared that unlimited pollution was poisoning the 15


### citizens of his state. Wendy was told make no 16


### mistake, the senator cares about coal factory 17


### employees and their families. 18



### She turned to me in tears and said this 19



### mu st be a mistake. Doesn't he have a moral 20


### obligation to protect his state's children? 21


### Doesn't this man have children, grandchildren? 22

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### He does. 1



### Now only does unregulated carbon 2


### intensive coal poison the air our families 3



### breathe, there is a clear consensus among 4


### scientists that coal pollution from fossil fuels 5


### is the single largest contributing factor to 6


### climate change, warming out planet, contributing 7


### to extreme weather events, and harming the most 8



### vulnerable citizens

-- our children. 9


### Climate change is ma king asthma triggers 10



### worse. Climate

-- extreme heat is hard on little 11


### bodies, and the soot and smog pollution like 12


### global warning exasperates and damages developing 13


### lungs and increases respiratory infections. 14


### My heart breaks when I listen to parents 15



### like Wendy living in communities that deal daily 16


### with the health effects of burning unregulated 17



### fossil fuels. 18


### And now we have the opportunity to begin 19


### to right this wrong and to avoid this mistake. 20


### Coal is no longer the answer to power our 21



### children's futur e. To further its use is a big 22

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### mistake. We can stop poisoning people and our 1


### planet with ancient, filthy power without being 2


### left in the dark. And now is the time to begin 3


### the shift to clean renewable energy sources that 4


### save money, employ Americans, an d most 5


### importantly protect the health of our precious 6



### children. 7



### The EPA's Clean Power Plan is an 8


### important first step in addressing climate change 9


### and its health impacts. Moms Clean Air Force 10



### asks that the EPA strengthen the Clean Power Plan 11



### and finalize this rule that will reduce carbon 12


### dioxide emissions 40 percent below 2005 levels by 13



### 2020. 14



### Let's set an example for the rest of the 15


### world that we value what is most important

-- our 16



### families. And make no mistake, our children are 17


### watching. Thank you. 18



### M S. MORALES: Thank you both. Lynn Green 19



### and Josh V alentine? Just turn your mike on, 20



### please. 21



### MS. GREENE: It's on? 22

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### MS. MORALES: Yes. 1


### MS. GREENE: Hi, I am Lynn Greene, 2



### G

- R

- E

- E

- N

- E, and I thank you very much for coming 3


### to Denver today to listen to our opinions. I'm 4



### both an attorney and I'm the CEO of the Lucky 5


### Corridor project which is a transmission project 6


### that is working to evolve the energy mix at the 7



### Four Corners coal hub to renewable energy and 8



### gas. 9



### I think one of the reasons I'm in this 10



### industr y and we care about it so much is my 11


### grandfather was a World War I doughboy who built 12


### six coal plants in Kansas. So when I was a 13


### little girl back in 1955 I remember being held up 14


### to look in the portholes at one of the really 15


### large coal plants in Kansas wh ere there were men 16


### in asbestos suits shoveling coal in fire. And it 17


### was fairly terrifying. My grandfather was a 18


### really nice guy but it was a terrifying 19


### experience that almost seemed to me like a great 20


### risk to the people who worked in the coal plants 21



### even though I know there were not that many jobs 22

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### available in those days. And that was literally 1


### a lifetime ago but yet it's just now that those 2


### coal plants are closing which is kind of 3


### astounding. 4



### As an attorney I look at other regulated 5



### industries such as the electricity industry is 6


### obviously a highly regulated industry. We 7


### compare it to other regulated industries like 8


### telephone, taxicabs, water industries. All of 9


### the regulated industries essentially enjoy a 10


### proprietary franchise. They have a very strong 11



### rate of return. They get a very steady return on 12


### capital because of the public

-- they're serving 13


### the public. 14


### In any of those industries water, 15


### banking, or any of those industries if we learn 16


### of a threat to public health and safety, the 17



### government steps in and does something about it. 18


### And we would all as citizens be very unhappy if 19


### the government didn't do that. 20



### For some reason we think that this is a 21


### very controversial issue to treat the electricity 22

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### industry the same as the other regulated 1



### industries. It seems to be some sort of a hurdle 2


### in the public's mind that we could force a public 3


### health and safety upgrade during the life of a 4


### plant. In fact, to me it's the ordinary course 5


### of business in regulated industries in America 6


### that if you discover a th reat to public health 7


### and safety, you do something about it both to 8


### protect the public from the safety issue but also 9


### to mitigate the costs of having a problem in a 10


### regulated industry serving the public. 11


### So, you know, a stitch in time saves 12


### nine. If you do something to maintain and 13


### upgrade the plants during their lifetime, then I 14



### think that it

-- it could even extend the life of 15



### some plants and reduce the cost to consumers. 16



### And that should be our ultimate concern. 17


### So, the life of a power plant is a very 18


### profitable life. They depreciate early. Usually 19



### they're

-- they enjoy the benefit of accelerated 20


### depreciating so they create tax revenues to the 21


### public, to the government, et cetera, early in 22

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### their life. And then when they get to the stage 1



### where most o f our coal fleet is now, they yield 2



### not very much tax revenue. 3


### So I believe that by addressing the 4


### carbon issue it is an economic development tool 5


### that we need at this time in our history. It 6


### will lead to economic growth. The

-- by building 7



### new

-- the n ew grid

-- by building

-- by 8


### upgrading the grid, building the power plants, 9


### wind, gas, whatever they might be, you get new 10



### tax revenues, takes some burden off the middle 11


### class, and historically infrastructure 12


### development has caused both indirect and direct 13


### economic growth. 14


### So I support it. I think that it should 15


### be seen as the ordinary course of business in the 16


### electricity industry as it is in all regulated 17


### industries to support health and safety upgrades. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MS. MORALES: If you could turn off your 20


### microphone, then he can turn his on. Thank you. 21



### MR. VALENTINE : Hi, how are you? I'm 22

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### Josh Valentine , V

- A

- L

- E

- N

- T

- I

- N

- E. I'm from 1


### Longmont, Colorado. I am a digital 2


### communications professional, and I work with a 3


### couple of renewable energy clients around the 4


### country. I also volunteer with Clean Energy 5


### Action which is based out of Boulder, and they 6


### rally against clean energy policies and 7


### legislations around the state and then around the 8



### country. And I’m a proud member of the Colorado 9



### Renewable Ener gy Society. 10



### So I hear a lot about children and

-- 11


### when I've been listening to for the past two 12



### hours. And the children, I'm not too worried 13



### about the children because the ones who do make 14


### it out who are not poisoned by our dirty air are 15


### going to laugh at us, and they're going to look 16


### back in about 50 to a hundred year's time if 17


### nothing is done to curb carbon pollution, and 18


### you're going to have a wealth of material in pop 19


### culture and books, and pretty much anything they 20



### -- they do creatively to make fun of what we have 21


### avoided for so long. 22

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### And I do want to

-- I do have a bone to 1


### pick because of

-- a big part of what I do with 2


### renewable energy is communication. And I can 3


### tell that the microphone I'm using is cutting in 4



### and out. And I've noticed that all d ay, so you 5


### might want to do something about that. 6


### So in terms of communicating, I haven't 7


### heard much about how do we inspire millennials, 8


### people born in the early '80's to the 2000. How 9


### do we inspire them to

-- to want to work for 10



### clean energy, to want to make the world a better 11



### place? 12


### And I already believe

-- and there are 13


### other people like me that the millennial 14


### generation are the change makers. They're the 15


### ones who want to change the world and the first 16


### generation to really do so. 17



### So, what message are we sending? What 18


### message is the EPA sending? What message is the 19


### Obama administration sending? 20



### On the news one or two weeks ago I saw 21


### Obama on the road eating junk food, eating beef, 22

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### eating chicken. If there are any vegans or 1


### vegetarians in the

-- in the room today, some of 2


### us know that beef production uses the most water 3


### of any food production. It also causes tons and 4


### tons of air pollution. 5


### The dairy lobby that contributes to 6


### politicians in Washington. Pizza and cheese is 7



### made very, very chea p in this country. There is 8


### an obesity problem, and that is

-- that is pretty 9


### much the American citizens go to food, this 10


### pizza. What is that causing? Obesity. It's all 11



### connected. Our use of water, our use of toxic 12


### water and food production, what we'r e consuming 13



### as humans. 14



### As I was born with

-- this goes back to 15


### communication. I was born with a hearing 16


### impairment, so a lot of my inspiration growing up 17


### as a teenager becoming interested in saving the 18



### environment was

-- I was inspired by images

-- 19


### image s and then ideas. 20



### When the Americans for Disabilities Act 21



### was passed, I

-- I got several perks from it at 22

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### school. I see this as

-- as a similar

-- similar 1


### thing. The Clean Power Plan will help every 2


### single human on the planet to breathe, to live is 3



### all connected. It all connects us to the natural 4



### world which we are

-- it's a very scary thing we 5



### are

-- we are verging farther and farther away 6



### from that. 7


### So what message are we sending to the 8


### millennials, the ones who are going to be 9


### inspired to make this a clean energy future to 10


### one you increase profits for solar companies, for 11


### wind power companies? 12


### The EPA needs to do a better job at 13


### communicating these ideas. We need to enter into 14



### some sort of curriculum in more schools, in 15


### public schools. How do we s how that this

-- 16


### there is a sense of urgency. And how do we show 17



### that there

-- that this is an emergency? Thank 18



### you very much. 19



### MS. MORALES: Thanks to both of you. 20


### Next up Cliff Kotnik and Jerry

-- excuse me, I’m 21



### not sure how to pronounce your last nam e

-- 22

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### Ginianow ? 1



### MR. GINIANOW : Ginianow

. 2



### MS. MORALES: Ginianow

. 3



### MR. KOTNIK : Good afternoon. My name is 4



### Cliff Kotnik, K

- O

- T

- N

- I

- K. Thank you for 5


### allowing me to comment on the proposed Clean 6



### Power Plan. 7


### My family has lived in the Colorado 8


### Spring commu nity for 20 years. On June 12th of 9


### last year we received a reverse 911 call telling 10


### us to evacuate our home immediately. The 11



### wildfire now known as the Black Forest fire was 12


### spreading out of control in the direction of our 13


### neighborhood. What followed was a very traumatic 14



### time for us and the thousands of other evacuated 15



### residents. 16


### My family was one of the lucky ones. Our 17



### home was not damaged; however, nearly 500 18



### structures were destroyed and two people were 19



### killed. 20


### 2013 had a very hot, dry spring. 21



### Colo rado Springs enacted throughout triggered 22

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### mandatory watering restrictions. Temperatures 1


### soared over a hundred degrees in Denver on June 2


### 11th, the earliest it's ever reached triple 3


### digits. 4


### The recently published National Climate 5


### Assessment Report contains a key relevant message 6


### for the southwest region of the United States. 7



### Quote

-- Increased heat, drought, and insect 8



### outbreaks all linked to climate change have 9



### increased wildfires. 10


### Just a year earlier Colorado Springs 11


### experienced very similar condition s with record 12


### heat and saw the Waldo Canyon fire spread out of 13


### control, take two lives and destroy 346 homes. 14


### The Rocky Mountain Insurance Information 15



### Association estimates the total insured loss from 16


### these two fires at $875 million. The Martin 17



### Drake Pow er Plant in the heart of downtown 18


### Colorado Springs is a 50

- year

- old coal fired 19


### power plant and part of the Colorado Springs 20


### utility portfolio. 21


### At the direction of City Council who 22

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### serve as the Board of Directors for the utilities 1


### an independent consultant conducted a study of 2


### various options for decommissioning the Martin 3


### Drake facility. The consultant issued their 4


### final report at the end of 2013. 5


### The study estimated the net present value 6



### of the direct financial costs for all the 7


### utility's power generati on over a 30

- year time 8


### horizon for a dozen decommissioning scenarios. 9



### The costs were compared to a base case of 10


### continuing operation of Martin Drake for 20 11



### years. 12


### The study also estimated the net present 13



### value of the indirect social and environmental 14



### cos ts of the various decommissioning options over 15



### the same 30

- year period. There are many 16


### components to the indirect costs but greenhouse 17


### gas and critical air contaminants were the two 18



### largest. 19


### The study concluded that given the age of 20



### Martin Drake it is not feasible to continue to 21


### operate it for 20 more years. It also determined 22

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### that the indirect costs were nearly as large as 1



### the direct financial costs. 2


### Two scenarios allowed for decommissioning 3


### in six and nine years adding natural gas or a mix 4



### of wind a nd natural gas generation. These two 5


### scenarios increased direct costs by 4.8 to 5.4 6


### percent while decreasing indirect costs by 14 to 7


### 19 percent, three to four times the direct cost 8



### increase. 9



### While these direct cost increases are not 10



### trivial, it must be r ealized that Colorado 11


### Springs Utilities prides itself on having 12


### electric rates 20 percent lower than the 13


### comparable utilities along the front range. 14


### Hence, this aging coal plant could be 15


### decommissioned while still easily allowing the 16


### utility to maintain b elow average rates. You 17


### would think that Colorado Springs' City Council 18


### having just witnessed firsthand the trauma and 19



### destruction from two back to back wild land fires 20


### and seeing the results of this study would 21


### quickly move to create a decommissioning pl an. 22

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### However, it's obvious from public comments that 1


### direct financial costs far outweigh the indirect 2


### social and environmental costs for a majority of 3



### accounts. 4


### Executives in the utilities state they 5


### can keep Martin Drake operating for another 30 6



### years. 7


### Colorado Springs is just one of hundreds 8


### of communities across the country with similar 9


### scenarios playing out. Climate change impacts 10


### are becoming obvious and very costly. 11


### The cost to change the electric power 12


### generation mix is manageable, yet without these 13



### proposed greenhouse gas

-- 14



### (Buzzer sounded.) 15



### MR. KOTNIK:

-- regulations, our power 16


### generation mix will remain dominated by coal 17


### because there's insufficient reasons to change. 18


### Please proceed to finalize and enforce 19


### these regulations as quickly as possible. Thank 20



### you. 21


### MS. MORALES: Thank you. If you just 22

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### turn off your microphone? Thank you. 1



### MR. GINIANOW: Good afternoon. I'm Jerry 2



### Ginianow, G

- I

- N

- I

- A

- N

- O

- W. I am Denver's Chief 3


### Sustainability Officer, and on behalf of our 4


### Mayor Michael B. Han cock I'd like to welcome you 5


### to Denver and thank you for the time and effort 6


### you are investing in gathering public input here 7



### today. 8


### The following testimony is just a partial 9


### expression of our views. Denver will be filing 10


### written comments on the proposed regulations 11


### separately. We're still gathering input on these 12



### two issues. 13


### First, do these regulations take the 14


### nation far enough fast enough, and second, does 15


### Colorado get sufficient credit for the steps it 16


### has already taken to reduce its carbon footprin t? 17


### Despite the fact that we're still 18


### formulating our position on these two issues, 19


### there are several points that we can make today. 20


### First, our city government accepts the science 21


### behind rapid climate change, including the 22

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### significant contributions of hum an society to 1



### that change. 2


### We recently released our first climate 3


### change adaptation plan. At nearly a hundred 4


### pages long it's among the most comprehensive 5


### issued by any major American city. In fact, I 6


### think it is the most comprehensive. If we did 7



### not a ccept the science of climate change, we 8



### would not have felt the need to develop such a 9



### plan. 10


### Second, we agree that preventing the 11


### worst affects of rapid climate change requires 12


### serious efforts that go beyond mere straight

- line 13



### extensions of current initia tives. Cities 14


### clearly have a major role to play, and we're 15



### proud of the steps that Denver has taken to do at 16


### least its fair share and to inspire others. 17


### We were one of the first cities to sign 18


### the Mayor's Climate Protection Agreement in 2005, 19



### one of th e first to adopt a climate action plan 20


### in 2007, one of the first so sign on to the 21


### President's Better Buildings Challenge. We're 22

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### among the top 10 American cities for Energy Star 1


### Buildings and for solar power generating 2


### capacity. We're 11th in overall ene rgy 3


### efficiency among the major cities studied by the 4


### American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy. 5


### We've already reduced our per capita 6


### greenhouse gas emissions below 1990 levels, and 7


### we are pursuing a goal to reduce absolute 8



### emissions below that leve l by 2020 despite 9


### population growth at an annual rate of about two 10



### and a half percent. 11


### City actions such as these are important, 12


### but cities cannot solve this problem without 13


### strong national leadership. We regret that 14


### Congress has failed to provide such l eadership, 15


### but we are grateful that President Obama has 16


### acted decisively by releasing his proposed 17


### regulations. We support the assignment of 18



### reductions on a state

- by

- state basis without 19


### mandating specific plant

- by

- plant reductions. 20



### We also support the fl exibility inherent 21


### in providing states with multiple options for 22

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### achieving their required reductions and the 1


### ability to band together in multistate groups to 2


### work jointly on meeting aggregated reduction 3


### goals. This support reflects a general 4



### preference fo r market

- based approaches that we 5


### apply in many areas of sustainability. 6


### The success of cap and trade in reducing 7


### acid rain is beyond dispute. And we note that 8


### many of the arguments levied

-- leveled at the 9


### current proposed regulations were leveled in 10



### si milar fashion during the acid rain debate. The 11


### track record of experience under the acid rain 12


### regulations, however, has established that those 13


### arguments were not justified. They were not 14


### justified then, and they're not justified now. 15



### While we're still c onsidering the 16


### propriety of Colorado's allocation of reduction 17


### responsibility, we are confident that whatever 18



### the final number is, Colorado will do well under 19



### the market

- based approach taken by these 20


### regulations. We are a community of innovators 21



### blessed b y the presence of the national renewable 22

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### energy laboratory and the talent it has attracted 1


### to this region. 2


### The proposed regulations will undoubtedly 3


### provide an economic benefit to the Denver area 4


### and provide added impetus to the many initiatives 5



### we are al ready pursuing to reduce in absolute 6


### terms the greenhouse gas emissions from our 7



### activities and choices. 8


### So let me close by thanking you once 9


### again for your time, your effort, and most of all 10


### your patience today and tomorrow. We look 11


### forward to completin g the presentation of our 12


### views through our supplemental written comments. 13



### Thank you very much. 14



### MS. MORALES: Thank you both. 15


### I'd like to call up next Liz McIntyre and 16



### Troy DeJoode

. 17


### MS. MCINTYRE: Hello, I'm Liz McIntyre, 18



### M

- C

- I

- N

- T

- Y

- R

- E. And I than k the panel for the 19


### opportunity to testify today. 20



### I am a three

- time winter Olympian, a 21



### silver medalist, a two

- time Olympic coach, and a 22

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### member of the National Ski Hall of Fame. I am 1



### here to support the Clean Power Plan. 2


### Born in New Hampshire, I have liv ed in 3



### Grand County, Colorado, nearly 25 years. We 4


### purchase electricity from Mountain Parks 5



### Electric, a rural co

- op. 6


### I am motivated to testify in part because 7



### I believe that the National Rural Electric 8


### Cooperative Association is doing a disservice to 9



### it s membership. It is shutting out the voices of 10


### many members on this issue and mounting a fear

11


### mongering campaign reminiscent of the

-- if 12


### leaded gas is prohibited, travel by car will 13



### become unreliable and unaffordable. 14


### In Colorado our pride in the specta cular 15



### beauty of our state and our concern for the 16


### health of fellow citizens has prompted us to 17


### tackle air quality issues in a manner that 18



### protects consumers, the economy, and the 19



### environment. The Clean Power Plan allows us to 20


### build on this legacy. 21



### One of my earliest memories is a cool, 22

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### clear fall morning in New Hampshire. I'm in 1



### nursery school, three years old, and we are 2


### digging potatoes. Our hands are dirty from 3


### digging in the moist soil, and our teacher forks 4


### the potatoes to the side of the hills, an d we 5


### leave them to dry in the sun. 6


### Lesson one, our planet is a pretty 7


### special place. It's the only place we know of at 8


### this point that we can grow potatoes. 9


### When I was in third grade I read a Weekly 10


### Reader article about the greenhouse effect. The 11



### artic le predicted flooding in New York City due 12



### to sea level rise. I couldn't have read that 13


### article earlier because my first grade teacher 14


### believed in voluntary self

- paced, unregulated 15


### learning. My parents were concerned by the 16


### smiley faces drawn on my clear ly deficient work. 17


### I was not learning to read. 18


### Lesson 2, a well conceived plan is 19


### necessary to achieve desired results. As a kid 20


### my fingers would freeze in my mittens as I held 21


### tight to the steel shaft of the Poma lift and it 22

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### dragged me up the Dartmouth Skiway wobbly legged. 1


### Each winter for 11 years I skied. When I was in 2


### ninth grade, snow didn't come. The Skiway never 3



### opened. 4



### To adapt snow

- making was installed. By 5


### the mid '80's I was training on the moguls of 6


### Mary Jane which led to my first World C up mogul 7


### skiing victory. It was 1987 on a glacier in 8


### Tignes , France. By the late '90's that same 9


### glacier had vanished. The slope unrecognizable, 10



### the T

- bars hung 40 feet in the air useless. 11


### My background in sports shapes the lens 12



### with which I view the w orld. I strongly believe 13


### that competition makes us sharper, leaner, and 14


### more inventive. The Clean Power Plan provides a 15


### framework for just such a competition in reducing 16


### carbon pollution. 17


### To those who oppose this plan I ask what 18



### have the leaders of your industry been doing for 19


### the last 40 years? Is keeping the lights on 20


### enough? Have they implemented a cost effective 21


### way to cut carbon pollution? Have they made any 22

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### major breakthroughs in increasing the efficiency 1



### of coal plants? Have they developed sys tems and 2


### enhanced their ability to meet demand 3



### fluctuations? If the answer is no, the Clean 4


### Power Plan provides flexible and fair framework 5


### to prompt these actions. 6



### As Coloradans we can be proud of our 7


### state's actions to reduce carbon pollution. 8



### Think A mendment 37 in 2004 and the 2010 Clean 9



### Air

- Clean Jobs Act. Colorado can get this done. 10



### In 2010

-- consider this: In 2010 solar 11



### installed in the Mountain Parks Electric 12


### territory penciled out at about 19 cents a 13



### kilowatt hour. Last fall it was between 5 and 11 14


### cents a kilowatt hour. Yes, that's comparable to 15



### or below retail rates. 16


### Lesson 3, things aren't what they used to 17


### be. It is 41 years after that Weekly Reader 18



### article. The Atlantic Ocean has been in the 19


### subway tunnels of New York City. A volunt ary 20



### self

- paced scheme to reduce carbon emissions has 21


### done nothing. 22

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### The Clean Power Plan sends a signal to 1



### the rest of the world that we will act. As 2


### sentient beings of Coloradans it's our moral 3


### obligation to protect our atmosphere so that 4


### future generati ons of nursery school students can 5


### dig potatoes and live on a special planet. 6



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. 7


### MR. DEJOODE: Thank you. My name is Troy 8



### D. I am the Executive Director of the Iowa 9


### Association of Municipal Utilities. Spell that 10


### capital D, little E, capital J

- O

- O

- D

- E. 11


### The Iowa Association of Municipal 12



### Utilities is a non

- profit corporation 13


### representing 543 Iowa cities that operate 14


### electric, gas, water, storm water, and 15


### communications utilities, including 136 municipal 16



### electric utilities. 17



### Our miss ion is to support and strengthen 18


### Iowa's municipal utilities. And I appreciate the 19


### opportunity that you presented to all the parties 20


### here. Thank you for doing that. 21


### Our main concern is one of complexity and 22

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### timelines. Iowa's community

- owned, not

- for

1



### pro fit electric utilities serve their communities 2


### with reliable and affordable electricity for over 3


### 120 years with decisions made at the very local 4



### level. 5



### They now serve over 210,000 customers, 6


### and like I said, 136 communities. The variety 7


### and diversity of that

-- those communities

-- is 8


### staggering at times. It includes Ames Electric 9


### Services with nearly 25,000 customers to the City 10


### of Westfield with fewer than a hundred. Seventy

11


### five percent of Iowa's municipal electric 12



### utilities serve fewer than 1,500 cu stomers. 13


### In addition to the diversity of size and 14



### geography, the power supply arrangements for 15


### Iowa's municipal electric utilities vary greatly 16


### depending on the unique characteristics of each, 17


### including the factors as the size, access to 18



### transmission faci lities, and its ownership or 19



### lack thereof of those facilities. 20


### Those were the largest loads, including 21



### the cities of Ames, Muscatine, and Cedar Falls on 22

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### most of their power supply resources through 1


### local or jointly owned generation. And they 2


### participated in MISO energy market. 3


### On the other hand, many smaller municipal 4


### utilities have long

- term all requirements power 5



### supply contracts, and they have only emergency 6


### generation or none at all. 7



### Between these extremes there are a 8


### variety

-- wide variety of powe r supply 9


### arrangements. Nineteen are minority owners and 10


### Mid America's base load plants. Many others have 11


### invested in a long

- term base load surprise 12


### through membership and joint action power 13


### agencies. Six are members of Western Iowa 14


### Municipal Electric Co operative. Municipal 15


### utilities or their power agency currently buy or 16


### sell portfolio of energy and capacity from the 17



### multistate MISO and SDP markets . Fifty

- nine 18


### municipal utilities receive a portion of their 19



### power supply from low cost, carbon free Wester n 20


### Area Power Administration hydro resources. 21


### Many municipals own local generation, 22

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### including diesel, wind, hydro, and solar 1



### resources. In 2013 Iowa not its m unicipals alone 2



### -- its municipals
, its investor

- owned and it's 3



### co

- ops

-- received over 27 percent of its 4


### electricity from wind power and had over 5,000 5


### megawatts of installed capacity. 6


### Although I say this to emphasize the 7


### diversity of the challenges that we face

-- our 8



### members face

-- in complying with the proposed 9



### rules. I'm not here to debate the rules. It's 10


### simply a matter of practicality for our people, 11



### our members. 12


### We appreciate the

-- the flexibility that 13


### the EPA has given the state. That flexibility 14



### has produced some unknowns that we have concerns 15


### will make compliance in the allotted timefr ame 16


### challenging. And I think that's our message is 17



### that the

-- we have concerns about the

-- the 18


### challenging timeframe that there is. 19


### We'll go into more details in our written 20


### comments, obviously. We have concerns about 21



### local con trol , rat e impacts , and extraneous costs 22

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### as well as credit for action taken in the recent 1


### years; but our most important thing is the 2


### timeline that has been given to the states to 3



### comply. Thank you. 4



### MS. MORALES: Thanks to both of you. 5


### I'd like to call up next Dan Hodges and 6



### t hen Joan Se emen. 7



### Mr. Hodges, you can start. We'll

-- 8



### MR. HODGES: I thank you very much. My 9


### name is Daniel Hodges. That's spelled 10



### A

- W

- E

- S

- O

- M

- E, H

- O

- D

- G

- E

- S. 11


### I'm here on behalf of Colorado Springs 12



### Utilities. We are a four

- service municipal 13


### utility. We provide water, wastewater, gas, and 14


### electric service to a population of approximately 15


### 450,000 people in Colorado Springs and the Pikes 16


### Peak region. 17


### Colorado Springs Utility is a 18


### municipally

- owned utility, so we are owned by the 19



### people of Colorado Spr ings. We are not for 20


### profit and pass all of the costs of our business 21


### directly on to our customer owners. 22

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### As part of our electric operations, 1


### Colorado Springs Utilities owns and operates 2


### natural gas, coal, and hydro electric generating 3



### units. 4



### And I’m h ere today to speak to our 5


### primary concerns on the EPA's Clean Power Plan 6


### rule as it relates for our electric operations. 7


### And we break them down into principally four 8


### categories. 9



### One, you've heard much today about the 10


### proposal potentially going beyond t he guidance 11


### and authority provided under the Clean Air Act. 12


### We're particularly concerned about Building 13


### Blocks 3 and 4, and potentially Building Block 2 14


### that it could leave Colorado with a higher 15



### reduction mandate than would otherwise be 16



### supported by the l aw. 17



### Further, the State of Colorado would need 18


### to have commensurate authority created, and we're 19


### a little worried that the authority that needs to 20



### be created would not also be supported by the 21



### Clean Air Act. So we'd like to see that

-- that 22

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### resolved. 1



### The other concern we have concerning 2


### Number 2 is that we feel this proposal is very 3


### rushed. You've heard previously about the time 4


### frame we need for a rather straightforward plan 5


### like Regional Haze. And that does have an impact 6


### on the ability of the State A ir Office to turn 7


### around and come up with a compliance plan but 8


### also, it puts a burden on the utility where we 9


### need to turn around and come up with a budget, 10


### and a compliance plan ourselves in order to 11



### address the plan. So we're rather concerned 12



### about the short timeframes that are afforded 13



### here. 14



### We're also concerned about errors that 15


### are contained in the proposal as it has been 16


### introduced. For example, the EPA based its 17


### emission reduction goals in Colorado by looking 18


### for Coloradans to shift electric capa city from 19


### coal to natural gas. In the EPA's analysis of 20


### Colorado Springs Utilities' Front Range Power 21


### Plant which is a 480 megawatt combined cycle 22

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### power plant on name plate capacity, EPA utilized 1


### the name plate capacity, not its actual operating 2



### certified capacity. And this creates a 3


### difference of about 10 percent in the 4



### calculation. 5


### We'll fully identify this and other 6


### errors in our written comments, including basic 7


### technical errors as well as places where the text 8



### of the rule does not match the text; bu t we 9


### wanted to bring that particular issue to your 10



### attention that there seems to be an issue between 11


### name plate capacity and actual operating 12


### capacity. 13



### The other concern we have is that the 14


### impact of this proposal could extend beyond the 15



### electric markets. This proposal will create 16


### significant new demand for natural gas, and 17


### Colorado Springs Utilities is both an electric 18


### and natural gas distribution utility; so we know 19


### a little something about this. 20


### Our front range power plant if it is run 21


### at full capacit y will consume as much natural gas 22

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### in a year as our entire retail distribution load. 1


### Simply put, one power plant equals about a 2


### Colorado Springs' worth demand for natural gas 3



### for one power plant. They use a lot of natural 4



### gas. And we want the EPA to be fully aware of 5



### that. 6



### And these are issues that we're 7


### highlighting right now with both EPA as well as 8



### the DOE and the FERC on the gas demand and what 9


### that could mean for the secondary impacts for the 10


### home heating costs in Colorado Springs. 11



### We respectfully would ask the EPA as it 12



### looks under the hood at this proposal that they 13


### would consider a less stringent interim goal. As 14


### proposed from our perspective, the interim goal 15


### is virtually identical to the final goal. And 16


### this means customers will experience a n immediate 17


### and significant rate impact in 2020. And we're 18


### afraid that the if the natural gas market 19


### responds with increased prices, our customers 20


### will get it both ways, both on their power bill 21


### and their natural gas bill, their heating bill. 22

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### Finally, we 'd like to see a safety valve 1


### included in there to allow for unexpected rate or 2


### reliability impacts. Our 90 years in the natural 3



### gas markets have taught us that the natural gas 4


### markets are not predictable, and we think some 5



### sort of financial mechanism, a safety valve or an 6


### off ramp, needs to be provided if natural gas 7


### prices exceed a certain threshold. 8


### We thank you very much for giving us the 9


### opportunity to speak today, and I thank you for 10


### your time. 11



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Is Joan Seeman 12



### in the room? And Dom Bererra? Is Dom Bererra in 13



### here? 14



### (No response.) 15



### MS. MORALES: How about Rachel 16



### Girfunckle? 17



### (No response.) 18


### MS. SEEMAN: My name is Joan Seeman, and 19


### I'm here as a citizen today. 20


### MR. RISLEY: Can you just spell your last 21



### name? 22

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### MS. S EEMAN : S

- E

- E

- M

- A

- N. Can you hear 1



### me? 2



### MS. MORALES: Yes. 3



### MS. SEEMAN: Am I too loud? 4


### I have to say EPA has definitely stepped 5


### up to the table for this one. For many years I 6


### had been exposed to pollution from Rocky Flats to 7



### -- just on and on and on. I can give y ou the 8



### list. And so I learned about the EPA, and for 9



### many years I referred to the EPA as the 10


### industrial protection agency. 11


### I helped actually a family understand the 12


### exposure that they were having living underneath 13



### the Cherokee Power Plant here in Denver. And 14


### there was a whole community of folks that were 15


### living under the plume of the Cherokee Power 16



### Plant. You know, it didn't take a rocket 17



### scientist for them to understand emissions and

-- 18



### and they were exposed to 20

- minute upset 19


### condition from the power plant. 20



### And so coal ash was in their home, on 21


### their yard, in the community. It was just a 22

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### shocking experience. What we learned about that 1


### was coal ash and discharge, et cetera. 2


### So I guess, you know, I could get into 3



### the technical on this because somehow as citizens 4


### we begin to learn about the technical stuff, but 5


### today I wanted just to definitely let you know 6


### that from my experience here in Colorado I have 7


### to take it back and really want to thank the EPA 8


### for stepping up to this one. 9



### I focus on toxic was te and all the dirty 10


### energy producers are producing toxic waste. 11


### Something new has happened in Colorado, so we are 12



### concerned about the

-- the carbon dioxide that 13


### will be deep injected, carbon sequestration, so I 14


### know that's coming to exempt that as well. It's 15


### been a problem, so this

-- as I said, this move 16


### by EPA is certainly well received and many people 17


### thank you for this. It's time. 18


### And as I said, for all the exemptions for 19


### the dirty energy, coal exemptions for their ash, 20


### and many exemptions, so this is a beginning; and 21


### I just wanted to say thank you very much which is 22

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### not really what I do. Thank you. 1



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Is Steve Szabo 2



### in the room? 3


### MR. SZABO: Good afternoon. My name is 4


### Steve Szabo, and I reside in Colorado up in 5



### Longmont. 6



### MR. RISLEY: Can you spell your last 7



### name? 8



### MR. SZABO: S

- Z

- A

- B

- O. 9



### MR. RISLEY: Thank you. 10


### MR. SZABO: I reside in Longmont, 11



### Colorado, where I have a small farm. I'm a 12


### member of the Rocky Mountain Farmers Union and a 13



### Poudre Valley Rural Electric Co

- op m ember that 14


### receives its power from Tri

- State Generation and 15



### Transmission. 16


### In 1978 I took my nephews camping and 17


### fishing to Long Lake in the Adirondacks. Before 18


### setting up camp we stopped at Hoss's Country 19


### Store to get some bait and supplies. I had asked 20


### the attendant how's fishing lately. He said 21


### there were hardly any fish in the lake. When I 22

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### asked why, he said he was told it was caused by 1



### acid rain, but he didn't know what that was. 2



### At that time we did not have the 3



### internet, so it took me several wee ks to figure 4


### out what acid rain was by going to libraries and 5


### checking other sources. So what I found was acid 6


### rain was caused by burning sulfur and nitrogen 7


### dioxide emitted by burning coal, and that it is 8


### harmful and causes problems in lakes and streams, 9



### and human health, our forest, and crop 10


### production. I witnessed the affects of acid rain 11


### to plants and trees at the higher elevations 12


### while hiking the Appalachian Trail. 13



### In 1980 the EPA established a 10

- year 14



### research program to look at the problem. And in 15



### 1990 the EPA started a program to control sulfur 16


### and nitrogen dioxide pollution from burning coal. 17


### In late June of this year I called Hoss's 18


### Country Corner again, and they told me there's 19


### plenty fish back in the lake. Also, the public 20



### health benefit f rom the program accounts for $52 21


### billion in savings annually since 2010. So here 22

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### is an example of an EPA program that had positive 1



### results. 2


### But dealing with excessive carbon dioxide 3


### levels presents a real challenge. Scientists 4



### tell us that carbon that w e have now in our 5


### atmosphere will be there for hundreds to 6


### thousands of years, and we are and will continue 7


### to have environmental and human health problems 8


### associated with the existing CO2 levels. 9



### I'm extremely concerned that the extreme 10



### heat and drought conditions we see now will 11


### increase and hurt our crop production. Water 12


### that's used for power plants and fracking 13


### operations would better be used in crop 14


### production. 15



### We all know that fossil fuels are not 16



### here forever, and when they're gone, they're 17



### never coming back. 18



### Coal costs will continue to increase, and 19


### according to Tri

- State Generation and 20


### Transmission, coal costs will double by 2032. 21



### However, clean renewable costs will 22

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### continue to fall, and there are no associated 1


### fuel costs. In fact, wind gener ation costs are 2


### lower than fossil fuels according to the Energy 3



### Administration

-- Information Administration 4



### data. 5


### So consumers will spend less for energy 6



### when we increase the amount of renewables we 7



### deploy. Clean energy development and 8



### installations wil l create jobs and bolster our 9



### economy. 10


### Getting back to our environment and human 11


### health, if the earth is impacted by a meteor or 12


### we encounter excessive volcanic activity that 13


### causes extreme environmental conditions and puts 14



### human health at risk or extinct ion, we can all 15



### accept that. That's out of our control. 16



### But if we humans raise our CO2 levels 17


### that cause environmental problems, shame on us. 18


### If we cause health problems and the possible 19


### extinction of our species by continuing to burn 20



### fossil fuels, sham e on us. If we cause 21


### stagnation on our economy by not moving forward 22

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### with clean energy solutions that will create 1


### jobs, shame on us. If we damage our agricultural 2


### crop yields because we use too much water for 3


### fossil fuel energy production, shame on us. 4



### In December of 2007 the Colorado 5


### Renewable Resource Generation Task Force reported 6


### that we have 300 gigawatts of wind and 93 7


### gigawatts of solar available right here in 8


### Colorado. That's enough to power our entire 9


### state and allow us to export to neighboring 10


### states. Energy storage development is moving 11


### forward at a rapid pace and is expected to be 12


### cost effective in a few years, so let's start 13


### deploying more clean energy resources. 14


### In closing I must say I applaud the EPA 15


### for developing the Clean Power Plan a nd for 16


### continuing to work for safe CO2 levels. Thank 17



### you. 18



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Just a 19


### reminder, if you're interested in providing 20


### testimony, you do need to register outside. 21



### We will break for 10 minutes and return 22

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### at 4:15. Thank you. 1



### (Brief reces s.) 2


### MS. MORALES: I might just ask is Karen 3



### Dike in the room or Lilia Ramirez? 4



### (No response.) 5



### How about Kayla

-- or Kayli n Richardson? 6


### Hi, do you want to go ahead and

-- let's 7


### go ahead and open the session back up. If 8



### everybody would take your seats. 9


### MS. DIKE: My name is Karen Dike. That's 10



### spelled D

- I

- K

- E. I’m a member of the Sierra 11



### Club; however, I'm here on behalf of my 12


### grandchildren, Autumn, 17; Lara, 10; and Charlie, 13


### 8. They face an uncertain future due to the 14


### effects of carbon in the atmosphe re and the 15


### resulting climate change that is bringing weather 16


### changes, rising sea levels, and other effects. 17


### Their future is bleak if we don't act rapidly. 18


### So thank you for taking the first big step 19


### towards mitigating the effects of carbon 20


### pollution with t he coal regulations. 21


### My grandchildren also face another 22

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### threat. I want to tell you that while you are 1


### advocating decreasing pollution from coal, fossil 2


### fuel production is polluting our air, land, and 3


### water. You are in the front range; we are in a 4



### non

- at tainment area for ozone. 5



### While the EPA and President Obama see 6


### natural gas as a bridge fuel, new data shows 7


### extremely high rates of methane releases, and 8


### there are other fugitive emissions from these 9


### natural gas extractions. This air pollution 10



### increases risks for asthma, neurological damage, 11



### and cancer. 12



### Statistics show us an estimated increased 13



### death rate in the United States due to air 14


### pollution is about 100,000 per year. These 15


### numbers don't show the physical and psychological 16


### toll related to causing t hese deaths. 17


### As a Registered Nurse I can tell you that 18


### watching a child with asthma while they struggle 19


### to breathe is difficult. I can also assure you 20


### that watching the ravages of cancer is equally 21


### difficult. To those who develop neurological 22

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### disorders life becomes arduous. The families 1


### also suffer with those afflicted and with great 2



### economic toll as well. 3


### While my grandchildren and yours face an 4


### uncertain future, the fossil fuel industry is 5


### continuing to use our air as a dumping ground for 6



### greenhouse gases and are able to reap huge 7


### profits. A study reported in the Denver Post 8



### stated that scientists found 19.3 tons of methane 9


### released an hour. This is potentially higher now 10



### that there are 1,972 new wells that were approved 11


### so far this year. There are now over 52,000 12



### wells in Colorado. 13



### Our water is also at stake. The Denver 14


### Post today stated that 521 spills were reported 15


### so far this year. This is reliant on self

16


### reporting by the industry and is only for spills 17



### greater than 210 gallons. 18



### I urge you to act. The first step must 19


### be to end all special exemptions to the current 20


### EPA regulations for clean air, clean water, and 21



### other environmental standards. 22

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### We don't need this extreme amount of 1


### natural gas to be energy independent. These 2



### fossil fuels are being shipped to foreign 3


### countries which will only contribute to more 4


### climate change. 5


### We shouldn't be subject to this pollution 6


### so that other countries can pollute. It is time 7


### to move rapidly to renewables and to encourage 8



### all other countries to do so as well. It is time 9


### to give us back our rights for clean air and 10


### clean water and to protect our environment. The 11


### Halliburton loopholes must be closed. 12



### I moved to this beautiful state of 13


### Colorado in March last year. I soon learned that 14



### the ozone level in Longmont is higher than Los 15



### Angeles. 16


### I'm closing with a poem by Drew 17


### Dellinger. It's 3:23 in the morning and I’m 18


### awake because my great, great grandchildren won't 19


### let me sleep. My great, great grandchildren ask 20


### me in dreams what did you do while th e planet was 21


### plundered? What did you do when the earth was 22

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### unraveling? Surely you did something when the 1


### seasons started failing as the mammals, reptiles, 2


### and birds were all dying. 3


### Did you fill the streets with protest 4



### when democracy was stolen? What d id you do once 5



### you knew? 6


### Thank you. I urge you to act rapidly on 7


### behalf of my grandchildren and yours. 8


### MS. MORALES: Thank you. Is Lilia 9


### Ramirez in the room or Kayl i n Richardson? Please 10



### come up. 11



### And please remember to spell your names 12



### for the court r eporter. 13


### MS. RICHARDSON: Oh, Kaylin. All right. 14


### So Kaylin Richardson, K

- A

- Y

- L

- I

- N, Richardson, 15



### R

- I

- C

- H

- A

- R

- D

- S

- O

- N. All right. Let's get this 16



### started. 17


### I want to thank you guys all for coming 18


### out, especially the EPA Administrator Gina 19



### McCarthy. It is an honor to share my thoughts 20


### with you. 21


### My name is Kaylin Richardson, and I'm a 22

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### pro skier and a two

- time Olympian. My earliest 1



### memories revolve around snow and that has become 2



### -- I'm used to standing up when I speak, so bear 3



### with me. 4


### My earliest mem ories revolve around snow, 5


### and that's a part of the main yard of my life. 6


### Climate change was something I was aware of via 7


### buzz words like global warming, renewable energy; 8


### but it wasn't until I started becoming involved 9


### with the Climate Reality Projects, I Am Pro Snow 10


### Campaign two years ago that I really started to 11


### put the puzzle pieces together. I realized the 12


### true gravity of this crisis. 13


### The last 20 years, unknowingly

-- this is 14


### just not working for me. I'm just going to talk 15



### to you guys. 16



### The last 20 years unknowingly I had 17


### constantly been observing climate change, and I 18


### didn't even realize it. Throughout my 10 years 19


### racing on the U.S. Ski Team every fall I would 20


### train on glaciers in Austria and Switzerland. In 21


### a time so cosmically unsubstantial I w as 22

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### witnessing these glaciers that took thousands of 1



### years to accumulate recede before my eyes. 2


### When I competed in the 2010 games in 3


### Vancouver every night it wouldn't get to freezing 4



### so it would wreak havoc on the courses. I've 5



### never been more afraid than in the Olympics when 6


### I was competing, which that shouldn't be the 7



### case. 8


### Just a few months ago I was in Sochi, 9


### Russia, as an Olympic correspondent for the 10


### Weather Channel. And it wasn't just at the 11



### coastal stadiums but at the mountain venues that 12



### more of ten than not I was reporting in a T

- shirt. 13


### This is not normal for a winter games. 14


### These are all examples from ski racing 15


### which is occurring in a controlled arena where 16


### the snow surface is manicured and manipulated; 17



### but it wasn't until I ventured into the world of 18


### big mountain skiing where you were at the whim 19



### and mercy of Mother Nature that I truly 20


### understood how wide the scope of this problem is. 21


### Last March after traveling for 24 hours 22

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### straight I arrived between the 68th and 69th 1


### parallels in the L ofote n Islands of Norway. So 2


### the scenery there is staggering, like these 3


### mountains just shoot up out of the ocean, and I 4



### couldn't describe it other than it was like a 5


### fairy tale. 6



### I was there to film a ski movie for 7



### Warren Miller Entertainment, and it looked l ike a 8



### skiers ' paradise, but however, when I got there, 9


### I couldn't help but notice that there was no 10



### bitter cold or overabundance of snow. And we 11



### were above the Arctic Circle. 12


### Once we settled in our guide sadly told 13



### us that it was the warmest and driest w inter that 14


### they've had since they started recording history, 15



### and that's about 200 years for them. 16


### A year before that again I was in Norway 17


### filming and

-- but a different region in the 18


### Western Fiordlands, and my friends there, my 19



### Scandinavian friends there . We looked out the 20



### window and shook our heads when we watched it 21


### rain in February. We're talking about Norway, 22

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### like the wintery wonderland of Norway. 1


### But this is not just happening overseas. 2


### This is a problem we see right here at home. In 3



### Colorado th e spring melt season starts two weeks 4



### earlier than it does in the 1970's. That's no 5



### time at all. 6


### During the winter of 2011 half of the 7


### nation's ski resorts opened late, and nearly half 8



### closed early. 9


### These climate disruptions aren't just 10


### robbing those of their favorite wintertime 11


### recreation. They're also

-- excuse me

-- nations 12



### -- it's costing them their livelihood. Like 13


### people are making money doing this

-- and myself 14



### included. 15


### The downhill ski resort industry lost 16


### between 13,000 and 27,000 jobs betwe en 1999 and 17


### 2010 due to shortening seasons and reducing snow 18



### pack. 19


### The more people I ski with

-- speak with, 20


### the more this story proliferates with their own 21



### first

- hand accounts. These trends and shared 22

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- 445

- 3376370



### experiences are not coincidence; they are 1



### evidence

- - evidence that something needs to 2


### happen. Climate change must be addressed. 3


### My community of cold

- weather lovers is 4


### one of the first groups to notice that there will 5


### be these changes because what they love is one of 6


### the first things that's going to disap pear. 7


### I hope you rise to the occasion and 8


### choose to set an example paving the way for other 9


### groups to adapt to what will become our new 10


### economy of renewable energy. Much like I hope 11


### the Clean Power Plan will set the U.S. apart as a 12



### world leader that has the wisdom to invest in the 13


### future instead of wasting time and money on the 14


### futility of what is immediate. 15


### This is the largest single action that 16



### the U.S. Government has ever taken to address 17


### climate change, and it needs to be championed by 18



### people that lo ok to the world as a place of 19


### priority. There are so many horrific 20


### consequences of climate change

-- health is 21


### stolen, souls broken, lives lost. The protecting 22

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### of the cold and snow may seem arbitrary maybe and 1


### inconsequential, but it's not. It's not at all 2


### because it's all connected, and we as a community 3


### and as a nation need to come together to support 4



### this rule. 5


### Possibly the most, if not effective, 6


### poignant illustration is that if carbon pollution 7


### does not go unabated, it is going to deprive us 8



### of som e of life's sweetest moments. 9



### (Buzzer sounded.) 10


### MS. RICHARDSON: Intangibles that I 11


### believe regardless of your chosen ideology we 12


### will all miss deeply. Skiing, powder

-- or 13


### carving through powder is just like this 14


### wonderful feeling. Making a snow angel with your 15


### nephew or your daughter and then there is 16


### listening to that beautiful silence that only 17



### fresh snow can create. 18



### Tell me that these aren't worth 19


### protecting. Thanks. 20



### MS. MORALES: Could you go turn off that 21


### mike and that way you can turn yours on. Only 22

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### one will work at a time. Thank you. 1



### MS. RAMIREZ: Buenos tardes. Mi nombre 2



### es Lilia Ramirez. 3


### (Speaking in Spanish and translation 4



### appears below.) 5


### MS. NUCETE: Hi, my name is Hilda Nucete 6



### from Costa Mesa , Colorado. I'm a community 7


### organiz e r for the Latina R egion [inaudible]

-- 8


### I'm actually going to translate what she just 9



### said. 10


### So, good afternoon, my name is Lilia 11


### Ramirez. I am an organizer for Co nservation 12



### Colorado, but today I am here as an immigrant 13


### mother worried about the reality that our 14



### communities lives in respect of the environment 15



### and the great concerns that today we cannot 16



### avoid. 17


### Definitely I am more unsure that it 18


### doesn't matter the color of your skin, level of 19


### education, or much less the political party that 20



### you prefer se eing as we all breathe the same air. 21



### By the way, that air is so polluted that 22

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### violates the federal standards of contamination. 1


### I believe that we can be very different 2



### externally, but we all

-- all of us only have two 3



### lungs, that by the way we all know th at are not 4


### renewable which is why today I speak to you of

-- 5


### to your good conscience. We still have time to 6


### make our change for our kids, our health, and our 7



### future. 8


### I know that by taking action I will not 9


### only be benefitting my community but all around 10


### us. Just as myself there are many people in my 11


### community that are interested in having cleaner 12



### air to breathe. 13


### Today I am representing almost 2,000 14


### people in my community that are interested in 15


### having cleaner air. People that have signed EPA 16



### cards conce rn about seeking a change in our air 17


### quality. 18



### I would like to

-- sorry

-- it will be 19


### practically impossible that these 2,000 peo ple 20


### could be here present today since they have jobs; 21


### they have obligations, but to be honest, none of 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### those people didn't know all these issues that 1



### they are concerned about and have to face. 2



### I am very honor to belong to a team that 3


### every day, no matter sun, rain, or thunder, we go 4


### to the streets, to supermarkets, libraries, and 5


### even your homes contacting families in our 6



### communi ty that have been forgotten, making them 7



### know that their voice has a value and that we can 8



### make a change. 9


### That is why today I ask you to help us 10


### make this promise a reality. I am an immigrant, 11


### and I have noticed that in this country we help 12



### -- we can pa rticipate in the political process 13



### and that our voice does count. 14


### Consequently, with all the

-- with a 15



### united voice we ask for a cleaner air to breathe. 16



### Thank you. 17


### MS. MORALES: Can you just spell your 18


### name again for the record? 19



### MS. NUCETE: Oh, my nam e is Hilda Nucete, 20



### H

- I

- L

- D

- A, N

- U

- C

- E

- T

- E. And her name is Lilia 21



### Ramirez, L

- I

- L

- I

- A, R

- A

- M

- I

- R

- E

- Z. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MS. MORALES: Thank you. 1



### MS. NUCETE: Thank you. 2



### MS. MORALES: I want to call up next 3



### Vicki e Simmons and Christopher Votoupal

. 4



### Is there a Ja i me Travis in the room? Is 5


### Christopher coming? Sorry. 6


### MR. VOTOUPAL: Yes, right here. 7


### MS. SIMMONS: I guess I'll start. Vickie 8



### Simmons, V

- I

- C

- K

- I

- E, Simmons, S

- I

- M

- M

- O

- N

- S. My 9



### name is Vickie Simmons, and I'm a member of the 10


### Moapa Band of Paiute Indians. 11



### MS. MO RALES: Yes, just don't get too

-- 12



### don't get too close to that. It should catch 13


### your voice. 14



### MS. SIMMONS: A small Indian Reservation 15



### 325

-- let me start over. 16



### I'm a member of the Moapa Band of 17



### Paiutes, a small Indian Reservation 50 miles 18



### north of Las Ve gas . Since 1965 we have

-- we 19


### have endured the pollution from Reid Gardner coal 20


### fired power plant now producing 560 megawatts. 21


### We have asthma, thyroid cancer, learning 22

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### disabilities, heart problems

-- and heart 1


### problems amongst many other illnesses. 2



### My b rother and neighbor both worked in 3


### the coal yard and they started working there at a 4


### young age, right out of high school. They both 5


### died at the age of 31 and 32 from cardiomyopathy. 6


### The odds of getting this was one in a 7



### hundred thousand. That was the la st thing my 8


### brother lived to say to me, so I remember that 9


### always because he didn't live. He had a massive 10


### heart attack right after that. 11


### If you live next to a coal plant, your 12


### life is affected just like when a person who 13



### smokes gets cancer, you cannot p rove which pack 14


### of cigarettes killed him, just that it 15



### contributed to their demise. 16



### I come to Colorado today to beg the EPA, 17


### the Environmental Protection Agency and other 18


### decision makers to think strong and hard about 19


### environmental justice. We depend on the 20


### Environmental Protection Agency to do what it's 21



### supposed to do. Please protect us. We are off 22

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### the beaten path. We are poor. Please look out 1


### for the poor people of the world who will be most 2


### affected by the disasters and the

-- of enormous 3


### proportio n if climate change continues and the 4



### course is not deescalated. 5


### I want to be on the right side of 6


### history. Stricter regulations for carbon. 7


### Things can change, and in Nevada they have 8


### changed. Nevada will be going off of coal by 9



### 2017. The power plan t next to me, three stacks 10


### will go off line in 2014 in December and the 11


### largest stack will go down in 2017. 12


### Before coming to Denver I left a meeting 13


### with Nevada Energy on cleaning up the coal plant. 14


### I never believed that this day would come. So 15



### it's rea lly amazing. 16



### Our tribe has also became the first tribe 17


### in the nation to develop commercial scale clean 18


### energy project

-- solar. We have a power 19


### purchase agreement with LAWP for the first 200 20


### megawatts of solar project called First Solar. 21



### Our tribal memb ers are all working and all have 22

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### good paying jobs, and we have a call out to our 1


### neighbors for hundreds of more workers. Those 2



### workers should be able to transition into the 3


### other solar projects that we have in development 4



### which the State of Nevada will bu y from us to 5


### replace the dirty coal power. So it can happen. 6



### And I want to say

-- let me say right now 7


### good jobs, safe jobs, green jobs. This is the 8



### future. Please remember that coal ash is not 9


### regulated yet, and we're hoping for stricter 10


### regulations on coal ash because once the coal 11


### plants close, they'll leave behind a terrible 12



### mess. 13



### Indian Reservation like mine lack the 14


### resources to implement the complex environmental 15


### laws. So I ask again and I beg the Environmental 16


### Protection Agency to increase re gulation on 17


### existing power plants. Climate change is real, 18


### and the people who will be the most affected will 19


### be the poor people of the world. They will 20



### suffer the most. Let's have America lead the 21



### world

-- clean energy. 22

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### MS. MORALES: If you would turn off your 1



### mike

-- thank you. 2


### MR. VOTOUPAL: Chris Votoupal, C

- H

- R

- I

- S, 3



### Votoupal, V

- O

- T

- O

- U

- P

- A

- L. I'm the Deputy 4


### Director of the Colorado Clean Tech Industry 5



### Association. We're a non

- profit trade 6


### association representing and partnering with over 7



### 140 memb er companies, research institutions, 8


### service providers, investors, and more. Our 9


### members are involved in using all forms of 10


### energy, renewable and fossil, including water, 11


### waste, transportation, building technologies as 12


### efficiently as possible. We look at policy 13


### through the lens of the clean tech business 14


### community and innovation not as one technology or 15


### industry against one another. 16


### I am here today in strong support of 17


### proposed 111(d) regulations. The Colorado clean 18


### tech business community has a variety of 19


### technologies to help not only the state but to 20


### export our technologies to other states and 21



### countries around the world. 22

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### Colorado's robust clean tech community is 1


### developing the technologies of the future to 2



### allow for cleaner, safer, and more affordable 3


### energy solutions for all. 4


### We represent companies and research 5


### institutions that can immediately assist in 6


### reducing greenhouse gas emissions in all the 7


### categories listed for state compliance, including 8


### renewable energy, demand side management, energy 9



### effic iency, natural gas efficiency, companies 10


### with technologies to make burning coal cleaner 11



### and more efficient. 12


### While the devil is always in the details, 13


### when it comes to complex policy, we're going to 14


### recognize the importance of the emphasis on state 15


### specifi c solutions to deal with climate change 16


### and pollution. States and regions all have 17


### different resources and strengths and weaknesses 18


### with respect to their current energy generation 19


### portfolios. 20



### We strongly feel that Colorado has a 21


### successful blueprint for reducing carbon while 22

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### using the following policies to create jobs in 1


### the technologies of the 21st century economy. 2



### We have the Clean Air

- Clean Jobs 3


### legislation to switch hundreds of megawatts of 4


### older coal plants to cleaner burning natural gas. 5



### We have a robust renewable energy standard which 6


### will be at 30 percent for investor

- owned 7


### utilities and 20 percent for rural co

- ops by 8


### 2020; and we have strong energy efficiency and 9


### demand side management policies in place. 10


### I want to touch briefly on the economic 11


### impacts of clean tech in Colorado. There's been 12


### a great deal of discussion here today about jobs 13


### and the potential impact these regulations will 14


### have on the employment landscape, and rightly so. 15


### However, the economic impact of clean tech in 16



### Colorado is o ne of the strongest in the nation. 17


### This is due in no small part to the forward 18


### thinking for all clean tech policies I have 19


### previously mentioned. 20



### In 2012 the Metro Denver EDC released its 21


### Fourth Annual Resource Bridge to Colorado Report. 22

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### It estimated fro m 2007 to 2012 the clean tech 1



### sector's five

- year growth

-- job growth rate in 2



### Colorado was over 40 percent. That's compared 3


### with just under 14 percent nationwide. 4


### Just this year they released their Fifth 5


### Annual Report. It continued to show growth in 6



### the clean tech sector. The clean tech sector in 7


### 2013 employed over 22,000 employees in over 1,900 8


### different companies. The 2012 average salary for 9


### a clean tech worker is just under $80,000. These 10


### over 22,000 direct jobs support an additional 11



### 55,000 indirec t workers earning a combined $3.4 12


### billion annually. 13



### There has been a lot of discussion about 14


### the cost of energy and what this potential impact 15


### of these regulations will have on the cost of 16


### energy. I think this is an important issue to 17



### discuss both for th e business and residential 18


### community. What you're not hearing from 19


### opponents of this policy, they're not mentioning 20


### the real cost associated with burning fossil 21


### fuels. Right now the price for a kilowatt hour 22

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### for a coal fired power plant does not take int o 1



### account the related adverse health effects, 2


### including respiratory issues like asthma, 3


### cancers, autism, widespread mercury contamination 4


### in our waterways and fisheries. 5


### Not taking into account in our power 6


### bills is the cost of droughts, flood, fires 7



### rela ted to climate change. If we took these 8


### factors truly into account, we would be having a 9


### very different discussion about the direct 10


### comparison within the cost of fossil and 11



### renewable energy. 12


### I want to touch briefly on the historical 13


### perspective on issues such as 111(d). So much of 14


### the pushback we've heard on this issue are from 15


### industries making huge profits from the status 16


### quo regardless of the environmental impact. Many 17



### of the same industries and even the same 18


### individuals stated the same issues for pr ior 19


### policies, that these would destroy jobs and raise 20


### costs. We've heard the same arguments with the 21



### Clean Air Act, with CAFE standards for automobile 22

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### industry efficiency, the highly successful cap 1


### and trade program for sulfur dioxide in the early 2



### '90's t o deal with acid rain. And right here in 3


### Colorado we heard similar arguments for the 4



### renewable energy standard. Our energy rates have 5


### not gone through the roof and our economy is 6


### thriving. We even have a clean tech industry 7


### that is a global leader and t hinks that these 8


### policies along with cleaner air and water 9


### systems. Thank you for your time. 10



### MS. MORALES: Thank you so much. Ja i me 11



### Travis? Would you mind shutting off the other 12



### mike so that

-- 13



### MS. TRAVIS: Oh, sorry. I

-- 14



### MS. MORALES:

-- you'll be able to talk 15


### into that one. Thank you. 16


### MS. TRAVIS: Hi, my name is spelled 17



### J

- A

- I

- M

- E. Travis is T

- R

- A

- V

- I

- S. 18


### Like I said, my name's Jaime Travis, and 19



### I am the Head Mom of a group called Colorado Moms 20



### Know Best . We are a network of moms looking out 21



### f or our children's health and well being by doing 22

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### our best to protect Colorado's air and outdoors 1



### for the health of our kids. 2



### I'm here to thank you on behalf of my 3


### family, on behalf of thousands of moms across our 4


### state for your leadership in recommending a 5


### pathway to reduce harmful pollutants in the air 6



### our children breathe. 7


### For those of you who are visitors to our 8



### state, I'm also here to welcome you to Colorado. 9



### I’m a Colorado native. In fact, I am

-- my 10


### children are fifth generation Coloradans. I hop e 11


### while you're visiting you will be able to take a 12



### little time to see our mountains, take a hike or 13


### bike ride and enjoy our beautiful state. 14


### One thing you'll notice when talking to 15



### Coloradans is that we all love our home and our 16


### way of life. And there is no other place we want 17


### to be. We love and are very protective of our 18



### outdoors. 19



### My husband, Pete, and I have two 20


### delightful kids, 7

- year

- old Jack and 5

- year

- old 21


### Luca. Like most young families in Colorado, we 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### spend the summer outside hiking and biking. And 1


### in the winter weekends are spent in Keystone 2


### doing our best to stay upright on skis which I 3


### generally fail at. 4


### This summer my son Jack went to his first 5


### weeklong overnight camp in the mountains where he 6



### learned how to rock climb, mountain bike, went 7


### camping, and much to my dismay in all the 8


### pictures sent home, he wore the same T

- shirt. 9


### We feel very lucky to live here; however, 10


### just like most parents in our state I worry about 11


### their continued ability to spend their lives 12


### healthfully outdoors if action is not taken on 13


### curtailing the destructive carbon emissions 14



### produced across our country. 15



### As adults we have an endemic 16


### responsibility to protect our children's health 17


### and well being. We know that increasing air 18


### pollution is putting our kids at higher ris k for 19


### asthma and other lung diseases. In fact, in 20



### Colorado fully one

- third of hospital visits by 21


### children are due to asthma and other lung

- related 22

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### illnesses. 1


### I, for one, am not willing to sacrifice 2


### the health of our children for profits. It is, 3



### in fact, possible to meet our energy needs while 4


### being good stewards of the place we all call 5


### home. That's why Colorado is leading the nation 6


### in cost effective renewable energy solutions that 7


### reduce our need for dirty power plants and why we 8


### are well positioned t o meet the proposed carbon 9



### emission standards. 10


### While this may only be the first step in 11


### ensuring our kids the ability to live healthy and 12


### productive lives, it is a huge step in the right 13


### direction. We all have a moral obligation to 14


### protect our kids. The refore, on behalf of all 15


### the moms sending their children out to play, I 16


### ask that the proposed rules be adopted in total. 17


### We need strong rules to ensure our children don't 18


### pay the price with their health. 19


### Thanks so much for your tireless efforts 20



### and for t his opportunity to speak. Thanks. 21



### MS. MORALES: Thank you. 22

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### Currently we don't have any other people 1


### signed up to testify, so we will go on a break. 2



### So we will take a break till, like, 5:10. Thank 3



### you. 4



### (Brief recess.) 5


### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. I think we 're going 6



### to go ahead and get started. 7


### Good evening. My name is Callie 8


### Videtich, and I am one of the Chairs of today's 9


### public hearing. Thank you for coming in this 10


### evening. 11


### Joining me on the panel tonight are Jenny 12



### Noonan and Nate McMichael. 13



### We're h ere this evening to listen to your 14



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 15


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 16


### of these proposed rules in June

-- on June 2, 17



### 2014. 18



### Power plants are the largest source of 19


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 20



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 21



### emissions. 22

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### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 1


### Power Plan for existing power plants. This 2


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 3


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 4



### power plants and guidelines to help states 5


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 6


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 7


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 8


### choose what goes into their plans and show how 9


### they can achieve the needed reductio ns and meet 10


### their goals by 2030. 11


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 12



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 13


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 14


### set emissions limits for two groups of power 15


### plants, those that make physical or ope rational 16


### changes that increase the power plant's maximum 17


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 18



### that replace components to such an extent that 19



### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 20


### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 21


### facility. 22

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### If you w ould like more details on these 1



### -- on either of these proposed rules, there are 2


### fact sheets available near the registration desk. 3


### Tonight's hearing is one of four public 4


### hearings across the country this week on the two 5



### proposed rules. We have had tremen dous interest 6


### in each of these hearings, and I'd like to thank 7


### you for taking the time out of your day today to 8


### join us and share your comments. 9


### We have a lot of people signed up to 10



### speak, and we want to hear from you all. So 11



### before we get started, I'd l ike to go through a 12


### few housekeeping items and ground rules that will 13


### help make today's hearing run smoothly. 14


### First, please be sure you have checked in 15


### at the registration desk even if you're not 16


### planning on speaking. And if you signed up to 17


### speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 18


### you're here, please step out to the registration 19


### desk and let EPA staff know that you've arrived. 20


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 21


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 22

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### or B. This is Room A. Are you in the right 1



### room? If not, it's a good time to switch. 2


### If you are not speaking this evening and 3


### the room is getting crowded, we have two 4



### additional set

- up rooms for your convenience. 5



### Because of the large number of people who have 6


### signed up to speak toda y and to be fair to 7


### everyone, we are going to have to strictly 8



### enforce the five

- minute limit. 9


### If you have additional comments you would 10


### like to make, you can submit them in writing. 11


### Let me assure you that EPA gives such

-- gives 12


### just as much consideratio n to comments we receive 13


### in writing as we do to comments we receive at 14


### public hearings like this one. So if you have 15


### more that you would like to say, please submit 16



### it. Your comments will be reviewed. 17


### There's still plenty of time to get 18



### written comments in, and there are comment cards 19


### available at the registration desk. Comments 20


### must be received by October 16th, 2014. 21


### We will put any written comments 22

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### submitted today in the official docket for the 1


### proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 2



### written comme nts in other ways are available at 3


### the materials table near the registration desk. 4


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 5


### tonight. If you have any questions during the 6


### day, please see the staff at the registration 7


### desk, and someone will try and help you. 8


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 9



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 10


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 11



### views in the audience, and we want to hear from 12


### all of you. So we can't do that and be fair to 13



### -- so we can do that and be fa ir to everyone, we 14


### ask that everyone listen quietly. Even applause 15


### can slow things down, and we want to hear from 16


### everyone who has signed up to speak. 17


### Thank you again for taking the time today 18



### to share your comments on EPA's proposed rules. 19



### Let me say a few other things. Here's 20


### how today's hearing is going to work. I will 21


### call speakers up in pairs. When your name is 22

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### called, please come to the podiums at the front 1



### of the room. 2



### When I call you to speak, please state 3


### your name and spell it for the c ourt reporter. 4



### Your comments will be transcribed and included in 5



### the record of comments on the proposed rule. 6


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 7


### give comments. We have a light to help you know 8


### how much time you have left to speak. When the 9


### light turns from green to yellow that means you 10


### have one minute remaining. When it turns red, 11


### that's the signal to wrap up your testimony. 12


### The light will flash red and beep when 13


### you have spoken for five minutes and it's time to 14



### stop. 15


### When you are finished spe aking, please 16


### remain at the table podium until the person next 17


### to you has completed their testimony. We are 18


### here to listen to you today; however, a panel 19


### member may ask you questions to clarify your 20



### comments. 21


### Ii will then call upon the next pair of 22

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### spe akers and so on. If you have brought a 1


### written copy of your testimony, please give that 2


### to the staff at the registration desk before you 3



### leave today. Thank you. 4


### So the first speakers please today, Becky 5


### English and Chris Edmonds. 6



### MS. NOONAN: Push your button and you're 7



### on. 8


### MS. VIDETICH: And when you're finished, 9



### turn yours off. 10



### MR. EDMONDS: I'm Chris Edmonds, 11



### E

- D

- M

- O

- N

- D

- S. 12


### Curbing anthropocentric

-- curbing 13


### anthropogenic climate change is an equity issue 14


### that disproportionally affects the mo st 15


### vulnerable among us. We live in an environment 16


### that is all of ours, so cutting our egregious 17


### abuses to our planet is something we can't afford 18


### to ignore economically, socially, spiritually, or 19


### communally. All over the world climate change is 20


### tearing c ommunities apart, destroying homes and 21


### essential services, and taking lives. 22

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### Anthropogenic emissions are proven

-- are 1


### proven to virtual certainty to be causing 2


### devastating changes to our planet. Humans are 3


### causing the sixth extinction in our earth's 4.5 4


### billion year history, although we've only been 5



### here less than one one hundredth of one percent 6



### of that time. 7



### And we in this room deserve even more 8


### responsibility than that. We in the developed 9


### world have had the opportunity to grow our 10



### economies on the backs of the internal combustion 11


### engine and have the advantage of over more than 12



### 100 years' head start. 13


### Now the fruits of that economic engine's 14


### support everything we do, from the way we 15


### organize our cities to the way we bring food to 16


### our tables and the j obs we have to make ends 17



### meet. 18


### Here we find ourselves in a unique 19


### position. After enjoying the effects of 20


### generations of emissions for so long, we now

-- 21


### we not only have the responsibility to surge 22

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### forward on carbon cuts; we have the capability as 1



### well. In the U.S. and elsewhere in the developed 2



### world we have the assets for investment and the 3


### growing political will to act. 4


### This is an equity issue for other 5


### organisms on this earth who we are forcing into 6


### extinction. It is an equity issue for people in 7


### the developing world who struggle with drought, 8


### starvation, violence, and instability exacerbated 9


### by climate change. 10


### But closest to home this is an equity 11



### issue for those in our state and our cities who 12


### are already imperiled. As the EPA's fact sheet 13



### read s, children, the elderly, and the poor are 14


### the most vulnerable to a range of climate

- related 15


### health effects, including those related to heat 16


### stress, air pollution, extreme weather events, 17



### and others. 18



### I would take that a step further. The 19



### bottom line is that as fresh water and natural 20



### resources become scarce, as 100

- year floods and 21


### fires occur every other year, it is the 22

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### vulnerable among us we seem to be content to 1


### offer as a sacrifice for the way we live. We 2


### must look beyond the short term growing pains in 3


### the mining industry and related activities to 4


### turn our attention to the exponentially higher 5


### pain and suffering we will cause in the next 6


### century if we hesitate to act. 7


### It is those long

- term victims who have 8


### the least capacity for adaptation and mitig ation 9


### that we are most responsible to. It is our duty 10



### as activists and decision makers to lessen the 11


### risks to our most disadvantaged world citizens 12


### and our most under privileged Coloradans. 13


### In this spirit I submit this testimony 14


### with my strongest suppo rt for the EPA's proposed 15



### Clean Power Plan. Thank you. 16


### MS. VIDETICH: If you would turn it off? 17


### MS. ENGLISH: Good evening, EPA 18


### representatives, and thank you very much for 19


### holding these hearings. 20


### I am Becky English from Denver, Colorado. 21



### I serve as the Clean Energy Issue Specialist for 22

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### Colorado's chapter of the Sierra Club which is 1


### called the Rocky Mountain Chapter. And I serve 2


### on the Chapter's Executive Committee and on its 3


### Legislative Committee. And I'm also a delegate 4



### to the Council of Club Lea ders. So I'm obviously 5


### a big believer in Sierra Club's approach to these 6



### kinds of issues. 7


### I also Chair the Policy Committee of the 8


### Colorado Renewable Energy Society or CRES, and 9



### I’m co

- founder of a Boulder

- based start

- up called 10



### Swift Tram which is

-- w hich will soon provide 11


### rapid transit for people and cargo. It's an 12


### elevated fixed guide way suspended coaches 13


### advanced transit system electrically powered that 14



### -- some are PV electrically powered, so it's 15



### cheaper than other

-- cleaner, excuse me, than 16



### oth er rapid transit alternatives available today 17



### -- also cheaper. 18



### All of us founders are committed to 19


### sustainability, and I'm speaking for my company 20



### as well. 21


### I also have a sustainability consultancy 22

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### that was recently part of a project to analyze 1


### opportunit ies for deployment of renewable thermal 2


### energy from Colorado Department of Agriculture. 3


### I'm here today to represent Sierra Club 4


### and CRES members and my various colleagues who 5



### can't be here, and to speak as one who 6



### understands the scale and type of challen ge 7


### before us, the importance of weaning ourselves 8



### off the fossil fuels that drove the industrial 9


### age and to move with all possible haste to the 10


### renewable fuels and extreme energy efficiency 11


### that represent the only viable way forward for us 12



### to preserve the living systems that sustain life 13



### on our planet. 14


### Specifically, I want to ask you to please 15



### delete support for nuclear energy from the Clean 16


### Power Plan. There is no need for nuclear power 17


### in a world where all the power we can ever use 18



### and then some comes s creaming through our 19


### atmosphere as sunshine and wind every day. 20


### The subsidies you encourage states to 21


### offer for aging uneconomic nuclear power plants 22

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### are misguided at best and would have dangerous or 1


### catastrophic results at the worst. As EPA itself 2


### point s out, six percent of U.S. nuclear capacity 3


### is expected to close early over the next few 4


### years, which is about 5.7 gigawatts of 5


### electricity or less than one and a half percent 6


### of the nation's electricity supply. This is a 7


### very low level easily replaced wi th renewable 8



### energy resources. 9



### I'm sure you understand that even though 10



### nuclear reactors have lower emissions on site, 11


### the life cycle for both carbon emissions and, of 12


### course, many other toxic and radioactive 13


### substances in the nuclear energy production cy cle 14


### are sky high. All of that nastiness should stay 15



### underground forever. 16


### Please include renewable thermal energy 17


### resources in your Clean Power Plan. Geothermal, 18


### solar thermal, thermal and power are derived from 19



### biomass and co

- gen

-- cogeneration. These are 20



### all renewable energy resources that have 21


### important contributions to make in the reduction 22

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### of carbon in our atmosphere. 1


### Yes, the electricity sector is, of 2


### course, very important, but so is the heating and 3


### cooling sector. 4


### I'm disappointed that the p roposed rule 5



### has settled on such a modest goal, 30 percent 6


### nationwide by 2030. Researchers have determined 7


### that a 50 percent reduction can be achieved by 8


### 2030, 100 percent by 2050. We're in an emergency 9


### here and I'd like to see you follow this effort 10



### wit h considerably more aggressive rules very 11



### soon. 12


### I want to let you know a little bit about 13



### the human fallout of greenhouse gas

-- may I ask 14


### you, Nate, for my running time? 15



### MR. MCMICHAEL: You have a minute and 5 16



### seconds left. 17


### MS. ENGLISH: Then I'm going to skip the 18


### human impacts, and I'm going to

-- thank you very 19



### much. 20



### So I have a number of friends who are 21


### suffering from illnesses related to toxics in our 22

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### atmosphere, the ozone that is trapped. I have 1


### athletic friends who can't run anymore in the 2



### morn ings because of the ozone that's caused by 3


### CO2 in the atmosphere. 4


### I'm going to skip those in the interest 5


### of time and jump to a couple of other concerns. 6


### I won't dignify the howls over loss of jobs in 7


### the mining industry with a response except to say 8



### mak e a job transition plan if your job is 9


### associated with making people sick and killing 10



### those who are already vulnerable. 11


### I invite anyone here who's concerned 12


### about jobs to join the Colorado Renewable Energy 13


### Society and learn how to make a decent living 14



### tra nsitioning families and schools and commercial 15


### buildings to a clean renewable energy and to 16


### dramatically improve energy efficiency. It's a 17


### sector that's growing in double digits annually, 18


### the kind of work that lets you sleep peacefully 19


### at night

-- or join Sierra Club and work for 20


### clean energy, clean ecosystems, and viable way 21



### forward. 22

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### I just also want to say in closing that 1


### thermal pollution such as is caused by CO2 2


### accumulation is pollution. And so, of course 3


### it's within your purview. I encourage EPA t o 4


### remember your mission and keep pushing the 5



### envelope. Thank you very much. 6



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Next, please, 7



### Zach Owens and Jeff Neu man

- Lee. 8



### You have to turn the other one off, 9



### please. Thank you. 10


### MR. OWENS: Is this on? Okay. I'll 11



### start. 12



### He llo, my name is Zach Owens. I am a 13


### Denver native, and I am the Program Strategist 14



### with the Alliance for a Sustainable Colorado. We 15


### own and operate the Alliance Center just across 16


### the street from the EPA Region Offices here. I 17



### want to thank the EPA for y our efforts on the 18



### Clean Power Plan. 19


### When I was in college about five or six 20


### years ago in my general chemistry

-- I was a 21


### biochemistry major

-- the teachers introduced 22

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### climate change to me, and it really changed my 1



### life. I realized that the emissions t hat my 2


### decisions were making here in Colorado were 3


### impacting the oceans. Ocean acidification was a 4


### big topic of the class as introduced through Le 5


### Chatelier's principle. 6


### Essentially we are putting so much carbon 7


### dioxide in the atmosphere that it was eq ualizing 8


### by putting additional carbonic acid into the 9


### oceans. And it was having an impact on the coral 10



### reefs. 11


### Here I am a Denver native driving my 12


### truck having a huge impact on the coral reefs, 13


### and I felt compelled to do something about it. 14



### And so I've been advocating for efforts to 15


### address global climate change and the human 16


### causes of climate change for my entire young 17


### professional career. And as a result I want to 18



### express my extreme support for the EPA and your 19



### Clean Power Plan. 20


### By cleaning up and mo dernizing power 21


### plants we will begin to clean up our air, reduce 22

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### pollution

- related illness, and curb the worst 1


### effects of climate disruption. 2


### I also will echo what Becky English said 3



### and encourage you to strengthen the standard. At 4



### the Alliance for a S ustainable Colorado our 5


### statewide network, the Colorado Sustainability 6


### Collaborative has adopted the Colorado Climate 7


### Action Plan which calls for an 80 percent 8


### reduction in greenhouse gas emissions below 2005 9



### levels by 2050. I would urge the EPA to work 10



### w ith scientists to consider similar reductions 11


### for coal fired power plants. 12


### Finally, I want to say other states can 13



### learn from Colorado. Colorado can really be a 14


### model for how other states work to develop their 15


### plans once, you know, the rules are finalize d in 16


### other states are to develop their implementation 17


### strategies. In Colorado we prioritize energy 18


### efficiency. We implement renewable energy 19



### standards both for investor

- owned utilities and 20



### for rural co

- ops. 21


### And finally we steer away from nuclear 22

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### energy. I also would advocate for not using 1



### nuclear energy as a strategy to steer us away 2



### from fossil fuels. 3



### I want to thank the EPA for the 4


### opportunity to speak, and I invite you to join us 5



### at the Alliance Center across the street to learn 6



### about additional ene rgy efficiency measures that 7


### other buildings can implement as a strong 8


### strategy for reducing our demand on fossil fuels. 9



### Thank you. 10



### MR. NE U MAN

- LEE: My name is Jeff Ne u man

11



### Lee. I am a resident of Denver, Colorado, and a 12


### pastor in the Faith of Jesus Chri st. 13



### There's a document that addresses the 14


### real physical reality of our greenhouse gas 15


### pollution in the EPA paper proposing standards 16


### for the reduction of electrical generation is a 17


### failure. The EPA goal of nationally reducing 18


### those CO2 emissions by 30 pe rcent by 2030 gambles 19



### with our actual world climate situation. If 20


### these goals are fully enacted as stated without 21


### radical improvement, there is a great possibility 22

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### that we doom our children to a hot chaotic 1



### global

- civilization

- threatening climate. 2



### Where does this 30 percent reduction 3


### number come from? That 30 percent is the number 4


### which may in combination with other White House 5


### actions such as changes to the mileage of cars 6


### help the United States reduce its greenhouse 7



### gases by 17 percent by 20 percent as the 8


### President promised in 2009, but where does that 9



### 17 percent number come from? 10



### As far as I can see, it is a number based 11


### simplicity on what CO2 might do on its own 12


### without regard to other systemic multiplier 13


### effects. This imposes the adequacy of traje ctory 14


### toward a worldwide 80 percent reduction of CO2 by 15



### 2050. 16


### These numbers are highly risky. We are 17


### betting that we know more than we do. They might 18


### be too aggressive, but with the climate changes 19


### we have so far experienced, it seems that they 20



### are a fr ivolous gamble with our future. 21



### At the same time, the document doubles 22

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### down on the greenhouse advantages of natural gas. 1


### However, the advantages of burning natural gas 2


### over burning coal, while well documented and may 3


### be utterly negated by fugitive methan e. 4


### At the same time the 17 percent of 2020 5



### goal neglects the several pressures that are now 6


### put upon our oceans by our continued releasing of 7



### greenhouse gases. 8


### NREL has demonstrated that using current 9


### technology we can move to an 80 percent reduction 10



### of greenhouse gases in our electrical generation. 11



### That's current technology. 12


### Since the technology is now at hand, the 13


### timeline becomes not one of development but one 14



### of deployment

-- the speeding of deployment. 15


### With new technologies arriving with 16


### regularit y and the costs of reducing our 17


### greenhouse gases decreasing in some cases even 18



### below the subsidized level of rates of the fossil 19


### fuels they're replacing, deployment will be 20


### initially disruptive but wealth

- enhancing for 21


### generations to come. 22

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### While nothing i s sure, we should 1


### aggressively work with current and new technology 2


### to end the use of fossil fuels for the generation 3


### of electricity by 2030. Let me reiterate. 4



### That's 100 percent by 2030. 5


### As more and more of our transportation 6


### sector is fueled by electr icity, that sector also 7


### will become more green. There would be hurdles, 8


### of course, but with such an aggressive goal, we 9



### can move father and first to create the new 10


### energy technology. We can do this because we are 11



### the United States of America. 12



### The realit y is that fossil fuel is a 13


### poison not so much in small concentrations but in 14


### the concentrations that the world is emitting 15


### today, it really is poison, and we should regard 16


### it as such. We should see it for the reality. 17


### The United States can give leaders hip to 18


### the world, and I can't imagine that the world 19


### making

-- making these necessary changes without 20


### the United States giving real true leadership. 21


### So far we've been dragging. Do you think the 22

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### world's going to follow Germany? No, they're 1


### going to follo w the United States. 2



### Now, as a pastor I

-- I need to speak to 3


### the many people who claim to follow Jesus Christ 4


### as their Lord, and I don't presume to speak to 5


### anyone else. Jesus calls us to love our neighbor 6


### and even our enemy. This love is not simply 7



### se ntimental, neither is it simply spiritual with 8


### a mutual hope for life beyond death; it is a real 9


### concrete love based in reality. 10


### To deny that climate change science is 11


### out of hand without really testing it, to call it 12


### a conspiracy is paranoid delusion and as such not 13



### of the God of truth. Denial creates a false us 14


### against them

-- 15



### (Buzzer sounded.) 16



### MR. NEUMAN

- LEE:

-- when we really are 17


### all in this together. Which will it be? Will we 18



### followers of Jesus Christ hand our children a 19



### stone or a fish? 20



### MS. VIDETICH: Next, please, Matt 21



### Hamilton and Leslie Glustr o m? If you could 22

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### please say your name and spell your last name, 1



### please, for the recorder? 2



### MR. HAMILTON : Sure. 3



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Hang on a sec. 4



### Why don’t I go ahead then and call Deanne 5


### Butterfield at this time. Thank you. 6



### MR. HAMILTON : My name is Matthew 7



### Hamilton, H

- A

- M

- I

- L

- T

- O

- N, and I’m the 8


### Sustainability Director for the Aspen Skiing 9


### Company. I want to thank all of you for spending 10


### your evening. I know it's been a long day, and 11



### t hank you for your time. 12


### Testifying today is really the next step 13


### in a process that began for the Aspen Skiing 14


### Company in 2007 when we were one of three 15


### companies to file an amicus brief on 16


### Massachusetts versus the EPA, a case that brings 17



### us really to the point we are today. 18


### Aspen Skiing Company supports the 19


### adoption of EPA's Clean Power Plan because clean 20


### power is good for economy, our health, our 21


### environment, and our community's future. Aspen 22

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### Skiing Company operates 4 ski areas, 13 1



### restaurants, 2 hotels , 12 retail outlets, and 2


### manages hundreds of employee housing beds. We 3


### employ 3,500 people in the winter and 900 year 4



### round. 5



### Success

-- our success of the Aspen 6


### Skiing Company is directly linked t o the larger 7



### success of the Roar ing Fork Valley where we'r e 8



### based and where our employees live. 9



### Since 1949 we have seen an increase in 10



### the number of frost

- free days, meaning there are 11


### fewer days of below freezing temperatures where 12


### we can make snow. Without snow making, our 13



### season would be shortened to the deg ree that our 14


### viability would be threatened. 15


### Recently the United States Department of 16


### Agriculture placed Aspen in the same climactic 17


### zone as Carbondale, a place locals affectionately 18



### refer to as the Banana Belt and my home 2,000 19



### feet lower. 20



### Left unabate d, rising greenhouse gas 21


### emissions are predicted to transition Aspen to a 22

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### climate similar to that of Amarillo, Texas, by 1


### 2100. Aspen Skiing Company is focused on 2


### reducing its energy cost by increasing 3


### efficiency, supporting low carbon energy sources 4



### and a ctively engaging our elected officials to 5


### develop policies that incur smart, sensible 6


### energy policy. 7


### We seek to reduce our carbon footprint by 8


### 25 percent by 2020. We've achieved a 3.5 percent 9


### reduction to date while business has grown, 10


### adding hotels, lif ts, and restaurants. We 11


### distribute monthly energy reports that highlight 12


### specific accounts with abnormal usage and have 13


### invested in LED lighting, building automation 14


### systems, improved the HVAC systems and many other 15


### energy efficiency measures. 16



### We've installed over 170 kilowatts of 17


### solar panels, 115 kilowatt micro hydro system, 18



### and pond

- based heat pumps. We track our 19


### footprint since 2000 and make that information 20


### available to the public. 21


### We actively support the work of Protect 22

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### Our Winters an d Businesses for Innovative Climate 1


### and Energy Policy. Almost two years ago we 2


### completed a three megawatt electricity plant at 3



### the Elk Creek Coal Mine in Somerset, Colorado. 4


### This $6 million plant produces 24,000 megawatts 5


### of electricity annually equivale nt to our usage 6


### and reduces carbon dioxide emissions by 96,000 7



### tons. 8


### Our local utility purchases the 9


### attributes of this energy, so while we

-- we're 10


### not offsetting our consumption, our investment in 11


### this plant brings online a low carbon energy 12



### sources mel ding the coal mining industry with 13


### efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 14


### We are working to hire our first energy 15


### manager as we realize that energy efficiency 16


### improvements are critical but only as good as the 17



### day

- to

- day management of those buildings. An 18


### energy manager will allow us to provide an active 19


### energy manger for our 250 plus buildings. 20


### Throughout all this work we have 21


### recognized the single most influential factor in 22

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### our ability to meet our 2020 energy goal is the 1



### fuel mix that our utilities choose to supply our 2


### operations. To that end we've worked hard to 3


### encourage our local utility to shift its energy 4


### portfolio towards low carbon sources much as the 5


### Clean Power Plan does throughout the United 6



### States. 7



### We are pleased to see EPA's proposed r ule 8



### allows individual states to utilize a number of 9


### flexible strategies to comply with the proposed 10


### standard. We specifically applaud the inclusion 11


### of renewable energy and energy efficiency 12


### measures as a means of compliance. 13



### We are deeply concerned at th e pace of 14


### progress by legislators, companies, and the 15


### public towards stabilizing global temperatures 16



### has been dangerously slow. The Clean Power Plan 17


### rules represent an important action that is 18


### needed now. Aspen Skiing Company understands the 19


### importance o f clean power and encourages EPA to 20


### adopt this groundbreaking regulatory approach to 21



### maintain rural tours and based economies 22

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### throughout the country. Thanks for your time. 1


### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Matt, if you'd 2



### -- 3



### MR. HAMILTON: Yes. 4



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 5



### MS. BUTTERFIELD: Push? 6



### MS. VIDETICH: Please. Thank you. 7



### MS. BUTTERFIELD: Here we are. Thank 8



### you. 9



### I'm Deanne Butterfield. I live in 10



### Boulder, Colorado, and I’m the President or Clerk 11


### of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 12



### which is the Public Policy Ministry of the 13


### Religious Society of Friends, the Quakers. 14


### We recognize that climate change is one 15



### of the greatest and most urgent challenges of our 16


### time. We are moved by the Copenhagen Accord and 17



### Global Scientific Consensus that li nks man

- made 18


### greenhouse gas emissions to climate disruption. 19



### Leaders in business, leaders in faith 20


### like Pope Francis and the Dalai Lama, governors, 21


### mayors, the U.S. military, the World Bank, all 22

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### find climate change to be a grave challenge 1


### requiring urgent action. 2


### In this light the proposed EPA ru les are 3


### a very modest beginning in the right direction. 4


### Reducing greenhouse gases from the electric power 5


### sector is a welcome step forward, and we 6


### generally support this rule. 7



### There is a fundamental moral 8


### justif ication for taking action on greenhouse 9


### gases. The ultimate challenge is not just about 10


### energy but about humanity, future generations, 11



### and the earth which sustains us. It tests our 12


### courage to face our survival. As Pope Francis 13


### said, if we destroy creati on, it destroys us. 14


### All the action on carbon pollution is a 15


### moral imperative. While regulatory actions by 16


### EPA and the states are essential to respond to 17


### the challenges of carbon reduction, the compass 18



### needle must be far more focused in the direction 19



### of a no carbon future. We need to set an 20


### effective sustainable trajectory today to reduce 21


### greenhouse gas emissions as much and as fast as 22

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### possible. 1


### The four building blocks that we start 2


### with should be used to continuously and 3


### aggressively reduce emissions over time, not a 4


### static goal that unnecessarily retains fossil 5


### fuels in the long

- term mix. 6



### If the issue was framed in terms of 7



### energy supply, we often hear all of the above. 8


### The moral response as laid out by the IPCC is to 9


### rapidly move to an economy whe re all of the above 10


### means the pursuit of energy sources, uses, and 11


### strategies that result in little or no emissions 12



### of carbon or other greenhouse gases. 13


### We can do this while protecting human 14


### health and ecosystems, being economically 15



### efficient and without damaging communities or the 16


### poor. These approaches also provide jobs and 17


### economic stability to our communities. It's not 18


### about picking winners and losers in the energy 19


### sector, but it's about we the people supporting 20


### life sustaining solutions over the bur ning of 21


### fossil fuels and increasing emissions of 22

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### greenhouse gases. 1



### When states and the EPA consider costs, 2



### this calculation must include the cost of 3


### inaction or timidity. Colorado is already facing 4



### extreme climate events

-- fires, floods, crop 5



### damage, dr ought, species extinction with hundreds 6


### of millions of dollars in looses and damages. 7



### You look at this nationwide or worldwide. It far 8


### surpasses any costs that we might incur as a 9


### society in reducing our emissions. 10


### The best system of emission reduction 11


### today may be surpassed by other strategies in a 12


### few years, and the plans must be dynamic to 13


### account for innovation, changes in public will, 14


### and changes in government. 15



### As has been mentioned, the residents of 16



### Colorado have demonstrated through our voter 17



### app roved renewable energy standard and the Clean 18



### Air

- Clean Jobs Act that you can have carbon 19


### reduction, quality of life, and economic vitality 20


### all together. We are on track in Colorado to hit 21


### our 30 percent reduction from 2005 levels by 22

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### 2020, again, with a s trong

-- with a strong 1



### economy. 2



### (Buzzer sounded.) 3



### MS. BUTTERFIELD: These rules need to 4



### incentivize energy efficiency, demand reduction, 5


### and rapid maximum development and use of 6


### renewable energy sources. Such a shift is a 7



### moral, social, economic, and en vironmental 8


### imperative. Let's show the world the U.S. is 9


### serious about our responsibilities to slow the 10


### pace of climate change. This is a modest but 11


### important first step. Thank you. 12



### MS. VIDETICH: Next, please, Deborah 13



### Taylor and Jason Crow

. 14



### MS. TAYLO R: We sit down? 15



### MS. VIDETICH: Yes. Thank you. 16



### MS. TAYLOR: I hadn't planned to speak 17


### today. I was hoping to do it tomorrow, and I did 18


### not bring in any research notes, so I’m going to 19


### talk about something more personal. 20


### On the worst of Denver's high pollution 21


### days I used to be a very active walker, taking 22

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### pets for walks, take my children out, and I more 1


### often than not found myself having to go to the 2



### doctor because I had a runny nose, sore throat, 3


### breathing problems, and she'd say, oh, you're 4



### like the 10th one I've seen in today. It's a 5


### high pollution day. 6



### Grant it a lot of that's been alleviated 7


### with better pollution control in the Denver Metro 8


### area. It does not take it all away. I do have 9


### those problems sometimes, and I do see my doctor, 10



### and she tells me and other people who are here
, 11


### that there's high pollution days that affect a 12


### lot of people. They affect my grandchildren; 13


### they affect my niece and nephew, and it's not 14


### just

-- it does not seem right. 15


### I try to avoid going

-- you know, when I 16



### tra vel going to cities that have high pollutions, 17


### and actually one of my favorite places is the 18


### countryside or Africa. Anyway, I thought that I 19


### would bring that up. 20


### The health care problems that high 21


### pollution presents is

-- it's a no

- win situation. 22

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### And it 's not affecting just poor people. I 1


### travel a lot and I take pictures. I'm a member 2


### of the Audubon Society, the Sierra Club, a few 3


### other places, but I take pictures of heavy high 4


### pollution haze days where birds are sitting on 5


### wires and they seem so littl e. 6


### And I've asked biologists, and they go, 7



### well, you know, it affects birds, too. It 8


### affects people. It affect wildlife. One of the 9



### most beautiful countries in the world

-- 10



### Germany's a very good country. They have 11


### beautiful rooftop windmills. And peo ple can 12


### provide their own power, and I'd like to see more 13


### of that. You know, I just wish that America 14



### could be the America that we read about in the

-- 15


### in the '40's. And, you know, I'm hoping that 16



### this EPA is the EPA that was out there when I was 17


### growing up when you saved our rivers and I lived 18


### at the shores of Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin, and 19


### they used to have the whitefish floating in dead 20


### because the Michigan was so polluted for a while 21



### and then got cleaned up. 22

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### I'm just hoping that something can be 1



### done, that you can follow the

-- well, the 2


### proposed guidelines can get passed. I like the 3


### fact that, you know, it can be state dependent, 4


### and I hope more states and more people will come 5



### forward with all of this. 6



### I don't have five minutes worth and I 7



### wish I h ad brought in my research but, it's very 8


### important, and I'm sure that if more and more 9


### doctors had the time and the energy, they would 10



### come forward and talk about the health needs. So 11



### thank you. 12



### MR. CROW : Good evening. My name is 13



### Jason Crow , and I’m an attorney here in Denver
, 14


### but I'm also a former Captain in the U.S. Army. 15


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify today to 16


### discuss the security threats that climate change 17


### poses to the American way of life. 18


### Carbon standards proposed in the Clean 19



### Power P lan will make us a safer nation while 20


### promoting global stability and economic 21


### opportunity. I had the distinct honor of 22

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### fighting alongside some of the best men and women 1


### in this country during three combat tours in Iraq 2


### and Afghanistan as an Army Ranger. And I have 3


### seen firsthand how climate change can threaten 4


### our national security, and I believe we can and 5



### must confront this as Coloradans and as 6



### Americans. 7


### I joined the military to protect my 8


### county just as those who came before me. Our 9



### greatest generat ion defended Europe from 10


### approaching tyranny during World War II, and in 11


### the wake of the war America's leadership helped 12


### rebuild a world that had held democracy and 13



### freedom. 14


### The men and women of that generation 15


### upheld the ideals that make this country gre at. 16


### And in doing so they understood that our fate is 17



### tied to the fate of other nations. Climate 18


### change is the silent enemy in one 19


### of the defining struggles of this century 20


### defending vulnerable populations from extremism. 21



### In Iraq and Afgha nistan I saw firsthand how 22

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### displaced populations and economic instability 1


### gave rise to extremism in many forms. 2


### Climate change exacerbates every struggle 3


### and challenge to global security and prosperity 4


### with rising sea levels, resource scarcities, and 5



### the increased frequency and intensity of extreme 6


### weather events like droughts, floods, and storms 7


### climate change contributes to instability from 8



### the Middle East to Africa to the Pacific Rim. 9


### At a recent speech to the graduating 10



### cadets of West Point President Obama called 11


### climate change

-- quote

-- a creeping national 12


### security crisis that will help shape your time in 13


### uniform as we're called on to respond to refugee 14



### flows, natural disasters, and conflicts over 15



### water and food

-- end quote. 16



### In a recent study rele ased by retired 17


### senior military officers they called climate 18


### change a catalyst for conflict. Climate change 19



### threatens to destabilize some of the most 20


### volatile regions of the world. And as extremism 21


### naturally finds a foothold in unstable 22

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### communities that face environmental stressors and 1


### weak governments, climate change could be a 2


### tipping point as severe weather events destroy 3


### critical infrastructure, exacerbate poor living 4


### conditions, and worsen political instability. 5


### You can look to recent and ongoing cr isis 6


### in places like Syria, Nigeria, and Pakistan to 7



### how a confluence of factors exacerbated by 8


### climate impacts have created hot spots for 9


### extremist groups. 10


### And one thing that we as a nation have 11


### learned over the last 15 years instability 12



### anywhere can have a direct impact on our security 13


### at home. Climate change isn't just a risk 14


### abroad; it poses a direct threat to our national 15


### security at home. 16


### Building, strengthening, and leading the 17


### international community towards active response 18


### in the face of global c hallenges have been the 19


### bedrock of American strategy since 1945. This is 20


### an issue that copies all within our borders. 21


### Although there is little doubt that America 22

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### currently has or ever had the capacity to act 1


### alone, there is no other nation prepared or 2



### po sitioned to assume the responsibility of being 3


### a catalyst for global action. 4


### The EPA's Clean Power Plan is a positive 5


### first step forward towards continuing the 6


### American legacy of global leadership. The world 7


### is watching, and they are waiting to see if th is 8


### is just a blip or if the American people are 9


### truly committed to taking this issue seriously. 10


### Thank you for your time. 11



### MS. VIDETICH: Next, please, Jenny G ubrud 12


### and Josh Phillips. If you could please state 13



### your name and spell your last name, please, f or 14



### the

-- 15


### MS. GUBRUD: My name is Jenny

-- I'm 16



### sorry? 17



### MS. VIDETICH: Press the button. There 18



### you go. Thank you. 19


### MS. GUBRUD: My name is Jenny Gubrud. 20


### And it's spelled G

- U

- B

- R

- U

- D. 21



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 22

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### MS. GUBRUD: I am here today because I 1



### thi nk it's a citizen's duty to try to counter the 2



### influence

-- the undue influence of reinvestment 3


### of profits in our government and buying influence 4


### in the government. And I think the EPA's carbon 5


### rule is a first step in regulating coal emissions 6



### and coal em issions are causing not only

-- not 7


### only global warming but also acidification in the 8


### oceans, numerous health effects where they are in 9



### large concentrate

-- where they're in heavy 10


### concentrations and simply unnecessary because the 11


### technology exists. There needs to be actually 12


### legislation in order for clean coal to become 13


### something that actually exists. 14


### The coal companies like to talk about 15



### clean coal. Let's make them actually make clean 16



### power

-- as clean as it can be made using coal as 17


### long a coal is a ne cessary part of the energy 18


### picture. 19



### And that's really all I have to say. I 20


### feel like the influence of money in our 21


### government is excessive and that we should do

-- 22

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### all do all that we can to let science and civic 1


### mindedness prevail over simple, bottom lin e 2



### concerns. The real bottom line is clean air. So 3



### -- 4


### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Jenny, if 5


### you'd please turn your microphone off? Thank 6



### you. 7


### MR. PHILLIPS: Hi, I'm Josh Phillips, and 8



### it's P

- H

- I

- L

- L

- I

- P

- S. I'm here this evening

-- 9



### thank you so much for taking the time to listen 10


### to our public comments here today. But I’m here 11


### because I really believe that climate change is 12


### the defining issue of my generation. And I'm 13


### here today because, you know, in light of the 14



### most recent National Climate Assessment that was 15


### released that shows it's really that climate 16


### change is already happening, that we are already 17


### feeling the impacts of climate change 18


### particularly here in Colorado. 19



### When you look at extreme weather events, 20


### like extreme drought that we are just co ming out 21


### of now, we are seeing reduced snow pack and real 22

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### impacts from some of the more extreme weather 1


### like the floods that we saw in Boulder just last 2


### year. Increasing ozone pollution and air 3


### pollution as a result of rising temperatures and 4



### we're alread y seeing some of the health impacts 5


### from the increased ozone, ecological impacts like 6


### forest fires and even actually the increase in 7


### bark beetles that we're seeing with increased 8


### mating seasons and the ability for these beetles 9


### to rise to the higher elevat ions because of the 10


### rising temperatures and crop damage, agricultural 11


### impacts that we're seeing in the lowering of 12


### yields and the loss of crops due to some of these 13



### extreme weather events. 14


### And so with that I think, you know, I 15


### just want to start by thanki ng the EPA for taking 16


### the step of releasing the draft of the Clean 17


### Power Plan. It's certainly an exciting step but 18


### it's one that we have been waiting for since the 19



### EPA versus Massachusetts decision since we were 20


### granted the authority to regulate carbon 21



### po llution under the Clean Air Act. And so it's a 22

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### huge first step forward, a critical first step, 1


### and I think one that I'm excited to see so many 2


### folks here today testifying and recognizing that 3


### this is a huge step forward in the fight against 4


### climate change . And I hope that we can continue 5


### to take steps forward because I think we're 6


### really lucky here in Colorado to live in a state 7


### that has taken several steps to combat climate 8



### change already. 9


### We were actually recognized in the draft 10


### regulation about 11 tim es, I believe, referencing 11


### specific programs that Colorado has pursued to 12


### reduce our carbon pollution

-- and so very 13


### specifically, when you look at renewable energy. 14



### I mean Colorado has been a national leader. We 15



### have the second most ambitious renewable 16


### portfolio standard in the country. And that was 17


### passed actually originally by the people in 2004. 18


### I think folks forget that year that Colorado 19


### actually voted for President George W. Bush in 20


### 2004, and at the same time we approved the first 21



### ever citizens

- p assed renewable energy standard. 22

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### So it is a majority of Coloradans who certainly 1



### support a move to cleaner, renewable energy. 2


### And since then we've moved through the 3


### legislature to increase that renewable energy 4



### standard three times. And we now have a 5



### st atewide standard of 30 percent for our largest 6


### utilities and 20 percent for our smaller rural 7



### electric co

- ops and rural electric associations. 8


### And so, we're really a leader nationally 9



### on renewable energy, and we've seen over 16,000 10


### jobs created in the sta te as well. And so when 11


### you talk about jobs, I really think it's a false 12



### frame that we often find ourselves in when we 13


### talk about the jobs of the past that might be 14


### going away, but there really are booming 15


### industries that Colorado in particular has been a 16



### leader on. And we've seen that we can actually 17


### have a net increase in jobs as we move to the 18



### clean energy economy. 19


### The next step is energy efficiency. 20


### Really the kind of most common sense way 21


### obviously, you know, a penny saved is a penny 22

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### earned. And I think you can say the same about a 1


### kilowatt hour as well. And that since we passed 2



### our renewable ACR energy efficiency standard in 3


### Colorado in 2007, we have saved over $900 million 4



### on our electric bills as consumers because of the 5


### energy improvements we' ve seen from the 6


### residential level all the way to the utility 7



### scale level. 8


### And then finally, the Clean Air

- Clean 9


### Jobs Act passed in 2010 which began the process 10


### of phasing out some of our dirtiest coal plants 11



### here in Colorado as we know that coal is havin g 12


### these impacts both on our climate as well as on 13


### our health. And so we've taken serious steps now 14



### to move away from coal and move towards our 15



### cleaner sources of fuel. 16


### And so I think, you know, the fact that 17


### Colorado has been such a leader, it is a, you 18


### know, recipe for other states to comply with the 19



### Clean Power Plan. I think the EPA was brilliant 20


### in the way that you have tailored the plans of 21


### specific states, both in the emissions targets as 22

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### well as the path to comply with the plan allows 1



### us to choose from all of these different types of 2


### programs, and we've seen great success in these 3


### programs here in Colorado and real leadership in 4


### moving away from coal and towards other sources 5



### of energy. 6


### And so I think I'd just like to close 7


### with I actually just mov ed out to Colorado just 8


### over a year ago myself. I never plan on leaving. 9


### I love the spirit of the west. I love the 10


### outdoor opportunities that it affords, and I just 11


### want to continue to work to try to protect all of 12



### our outdoor resources, our outdoor her itage here 13



### in Colorado. And I think that the

-- the 14


### pioneering spirit of the west is something that 15


### really can spill over into our energy mix as well 16


### as we pioneer new renewable energy and energy 17


### efficiency technologies that will power us into 18



### the future. So thank you for your time, and 19


### thank you for proposing the Clean Power Plan. 20



### MS. VIDETICH: Next, please, K . K. 21



### Duvi vier , and Rebecca Pierce. 22

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### MS. PIERCE: I'll be really short. 1



### MS. VIDETICH: If you'd please say your 2



### name, spell your last name, plea se for the 3



### reporter? 4



### MS. PIERCE: P

- I

- E

- R

- C

- E. 5



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 6


### MS. PIERCE: I'll keep it really short. 7


### I agree with the decreasing carbon 8


### emissions by 30 percent or more. I would love to 9


### see some strong incentive to get this done. 10



### Mandato ry efficiency levels, and investing in new 11


### technologies, I think we can do it very easily if 12


### we put our mind to it. 13



### MS. DUVIVIER: That one was short and 14


### sweet and hard to compete with. I figured this 15


### time of night you needed something to break 16


### things up so I'm wearing my hardhat, but I’m 17


### wearing it partially

-- my name is K. K. 18



### Duvivier, D

- U

- V

- I

- V

- I

- E

- R, and I'm wearing this 19


### hardhat to show the two sides that I hope that I 20



### represent. 21


### First, I'm an energy geek and an expert. 22

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### I am a tenured law professor at the University of 1


### Denver, College of Law with a specialty in 2



### energy. I also was a Natural Resources a 3


### attorney and a geologist before law school. So 4


### once a geologist, always a geologist at least for 5


### me. Hickenlooper always says he's a recovering 6



### geo logist, but I’m always a geologist. 7


### And so I was delighted last year to 8


### participate in the Colorado School of Mines 9


### Energy and Minerals Field Institute last year 10


### which meant that I got

-- I was able to visit the 11



### m ine m outh c oal p lant in Craig, Colorado, a nd 12


### going around at Bowie which is a long wall mining 13


### operation. So I don't have anything personally 14


### against coal. I actually am fascinated by 15



### geology. 16


### But I’m also coming today as

-- take my 17



### hat off

-- as a mother of a child who had to use 18



### an inhaler be cause we lived near a coal fire 19


### power plant while she was growing up, and I'm a 20



### soon

- to

- be grandmother, and I’m hoping for 21


### something better for the next generation. 22

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### So, I just thought

-- I've authored a 1



### book called The Renewable Energy Reader. I

-- I 2



### gav e you just a copy of the cover in there. 3



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 4



### MS. DIVIVIER: I do like renewable 5


### energy. I'm also writing a book on energy law 6


### for LexisNexis. And even though I try to keep an 7


### objective focus because I want my students to see 8



### all s ides, I couldn't help but notice in my 9



### research that fossil fuels have over time and 10


### they continue to have an incredible advantage 11


### with respect to subsidies, and in this case the 12



### avoidance of externalities. 13


### And shifting the cost of the detrimental 14



### externa lities such as carbon to those who didn't 15



### produce them creates

-- distorts the market and 16



### also stalls the development of cleaner 17



### alternatives. 18


### So I do think fossil fuels are a great 19


### thing. They really help civilization, but 20


### they've been on a free ride fo r too long, and we 21


### really can't let that continue. So I’m very 22

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### excited. 1



### And one of the issues that I wanted to 2



### raise is the economics. So, in here I did

-- I 3


### have a cartoon that I just really love about the 4


### externalities but also I just copied some of t he 5


### materials from the proposed rule because I’m a 6


### law professor I actually had to read it. 7


### And one of the things that stuck out to 8



### me were Tables 1 and 2 where they talk about the 9



### monetized benefits of these rules. So when 10


### anyone tells you that it's go ing to cost a lot 11



### more

-- 12


### MS. VIDETICH: Step back a little. 13



### That's it. 14



### MR. DUVIVIER: Okay. Sorry. 15


### That it's going to cost a lot more than 16


### actually these figures that the EPA did show 17



### billions of dollars, 27 to over 80 billion in 18



### 2020 and 2030 are the benefits of these changes 19


### depending on which scenario you follow. 20


### So there are significant justifications 21


### for it, but I also think that the EPA's approach 22

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### was very good

-- the four building blocks, you 1


### know, recognizing that power plants that are as 2



### o ld as I am or close are not going to be the most 3


### efficient and that we ought to be upgrading those 4


### and then when we can, doing what Colorado has 5


### done is shifting to lower emitting fossil fuels. 6


### I think that's a great step and then trying to 7



### encourage rene wable energy which we've also been 8


### doing in Colorado, and I hope that nationwide we 9



### would do more of that. 10


### And, finally, energy efficiency which is 11


### something that my husband and I, we won the 12


### Colorado Renewable Energy Society Award for 13



### Efficient Home. Th ere's so much more we could do 14


### with efficiency. And so that's not a hard step, 15


### and it's a very cost effective step, so EPA's 16


### encouraging these four approaches I think is 17


### excellent, and their goals are very achievable. 18


### They got a lot of information at th e offset to 19



### propose the rules and under 11(d) I'll be a 20


### little bit technical as a lawyer costs couldn't 21


### be considered, and you have to have technical 22

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### feasibility, but EPA showed that they can do 1


### that, and these are very conservative goals. So 2



### they're not over reaching. 3


### And finally, allowing the federal, state 4


### partnership I think is excellent because every 5


### state can do energy efficiency and many states 6


### underestimate the amount of renewables they have. 7


### So I want to thank you again for sticking 8



### it out. I d on't know if you've been here all 9


### day, but I appreciate it. And I wanted to urge 10


### the EPA not to compromise or water down the rule, 11


### instead implement it as proposed, and the cost of 12


### waiting any longer to address the problem of 13


### carbon pollution and climate change is just too 14


### high. Thank you. 15



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Next, please, 16



### Matthew Elsner, and Kyle Wagner. 17


### MR. WAGNER: My name is Kyle Wagner. 18



### MS. VIDETICH: Push the button. 19


### MR. WAGNER: Hello, my name is Kyle 20


### Wagner. Thank you for the opportuni ty to speak 21



### today. I am a 26

- year

- old native of Minnesota 22

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### out here organizing on behalf of Environmental 1



### Colorado and Environment America as well as a 2


### number of other organizations. I have spent the 3


### better part of the last decade working on behalf 4



### of com munity involved organizations and 5


### environmental policy. 6


### That being said I've spoken to hundreds 7


### of thousands of individuals about these types of 8



### concerns, be them renewable energy, cleaner 9


### environment, reduced emissions. It is a very 10



### universal statement that we need to be protecting 11


### our environment. There are very few people I 12



### have spoken to over the years that do not agree 13


### that these environmental policies are not only 14


### necessary but expected of our voting population. 15


### In places like Minnesota and Colora do we 16


### have extremely increased our renewable energy 17


### standards as well as our regulations on energy, 18



### and we need to continue to do so in the face of 19


### climate change that has ravaged all of our states 20


### with flooding, drought, earthquakes, a wide range 21



### of other environmental catastrophes costing 22

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### trillions of dollars. 1


### The statement has been made by the public 2


### countless times that we need to be pursuing 3


### stronger policies regarding, especially 4


### emissions, and carbon emissions at that. It's my 5


### job here today to bri ng the voices to all of 6


### these organizations and their constituency to the 7


### EPA and urge you not to compromise on these 8


### issues, not to compromise on these policies and 9


### to follow through, not just now on these 10



### environmental

-- or on the emissions regulations 11


### but on all of these policies that directly impact 12


### climate change and our environment. Without them 13


### our future generations have no hope for the kind 14


### of agriculture, or energy, or for renewable 15



### resources that we have seen for countless 16


### generations. 17



### The sci ence speaks. These environments 18


### will die if we do not stand our ground now and 19



### continue to move forward in the future. I am a 20



### young person, but there are much younger out 21


### there that don't even have a voice to speak. And 22

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### I would like to see them facing a better tomorrow 1



### than we face today. 2


### Not only here in the United States, but 3


### globally, there is a growing concern of the 4


### impact of policies here in the United States of 5


### America. Now, state by state we have taken the 6


### stand to say that reduced emissions, c leaner 7


### energy options and other things are necessary, 8


### but the time is now to make that a federally 9


### mandated direction for not just clean energy but 10


### all industries. We cannot continue to pollute 11


### our planet and hope to be here in another 10 12


### generations. 13



### I thank you so much for the opportunity 14


### to speak, and I hope that this follows through in 15



### the months to come. Thank you. 16



### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 17



### MR. ELSNER : Good evening. Thank you to 18


### the EPA for allowing us the opportunity to speak 19



### about our perspe ctives on the Clean Power Plan. 20



### Thank you as well to everyone who has made the 21


### time to attend these hearings. 22

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### Since climate change is the most pressing 1


### problem facing humanity today, it is heartening 2


### to see so many people engaged in finding ways to 3


### mitiga te it. 4


### MS. VIDETICH: Can you remind us who you 5



### are? 6



### MR. ELSNER: I'm about to. 7



### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. Thank you. 8


### MR. ELSNER: My name is Matthew Elsner. 9



### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. 10



### MR. ELSNER: And I'm here today

-- and 11



### that's E

- L

- S

- N

- E

- R. And I'm here tod ay as a 12



### concerned Coloradan and American as well as the 13



### Chair of the Sierra Club Denver Metro Network 14


### which works to engage and represent Sierra Club 15


### members in the Denver Metropolitan area. 16


### While I by no means can speak for every 17



### Sierra Club member in ou r local area, I hope to 18


### present what I believe are some of the common 19


### concerns we share about carbon pollution and how 20


### to fight it. First, let me start by laying out 21



### what I believe we have in common with those who 22

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### oppose plans to eliminate carbon pollutio n. 1


### We all appreciate being able to turn on a 2


### light and have our lives illuminated. We all 3


### depend on having a secure stable, constantly 4


### available source of energy to power our lives. 5


### We all want our economy to flourish, producing 6


### safe, good quality jobs. And we all want our 7


### families and neighbors to be health and free from 8


### illnesses that could be easily prevented. 9


### We all want to leave the generations that 10



### come after us a natural world that hasn't been 11


### ravaged by both manmade and natural disasters. 12



### But what separates me, thousands of Sierra Club 13


### members, and millions of Americans who support 14


### the EPA's Clean Power Plan from its opponents is 15


### that we want to see something to promote these 16


### goals now. We know that something needs to be 17



### done now. And we know that this plan empowers 18


### the states to begin working to fix the problem 19



### now. 20


### And we also know what this plan will do 21



### over time

-- save thousands of lives, prevent 22

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### billions of dollars in damage due to climate 1


### change related disasters, and produce good new 2


### jobs to help power a greener economy. 3


### What we believe we simply can't do is 4


### nothing. We have the responsibility as 5


### Coloradans, as Americans, and as people living at 6


### a pivotal moment in our history to do something. 7


### We simply must act and we must act now. 8



### I support a secure energy future. I 9


### support transitioning to cleaner sources of 10


### energy. I support a healthy growing economy that 11


### produces good jobs. I support keeping those I 12


### love healthy and safe. And I support protecting 13



### our natural world for futur e generations. 14



### That's why I support the EPA's Clean 15


### Power Plan. I hope you'll join me, thousands of 16



### Sierra Club members, and millions of other 17


### patriotic Americans in supporting it as well. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MS. VIDETICH: We have one more speaker 20



### that I know of at this point. Bryce Carter, 21



### please. 22

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### MR. CARTER: Good evening. My name is 1



### Bryce Carter, last name C

- A

- R

- T

- E

- R. Like the 2


### gentleman before me, I am actually going to turn 3


### 26 a week from Sunday. And I've committed the 4


### last eight years of my life work ing on climate 5



### change. 6



### And when I first learned about the issue 7


### and started seeing directly the impacts of the 8


### fossil fuel energy, particularly coal in western 9


### Virginia and Appalachia, I was shocked. And, you 10


### know, I'm an organizer by trade. I work for the 11


### Sierra Club. And the reason why I work for the 12



### Sierra Club is because of stories I hear. And 13



### these are stories from individuals all across 14


### this country of places I've lived and places I 15


### have engaged and organized. 16


### And when you go in these hollers of the 17


### communities in western Virginia and people hold 18


### up their lists of names of people in just one 19


### holler, one little community of people who have 20


### died of cancer, who are sick, who are dying of 21


### heart attacks in their 50's and you see these 22

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### health impacts d irectly, you realize that there 1


### is something wrong with the way our country 2


### operates and the way that we receive our power. 3


### And so I was a student at Virginia Tech, 4


### and I committed myself and my life to making sure 5


### that people heard this story and got to 6


### experience that firsthand. We stand on the edge 7


### of what was a glistening mountainside and have a 8


### sheer wall of just moon scape where they blow up 9


### the entire mountain and just rip it out

-- all 10



### the coal

-- and destroy pristine ecosystems. 11



### But it didn't sto p there. I remember my 12


### friend who had to move to Virginia because her 13


### home was destroyed because of Katrina. I 14


### remember my friend who was scared because her 15


### house was burned by wildfires in California. And 16



### in that time when I had these conversations, I 17


### started organizing and including people and 18


### getting bus loads of people, hundreds of people 19


### to regional conferences, power shifts. Started 20


### organizing local conferences. And it became my 21


### passion. It became my career. And I say that

-- 22

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### I don't even think of this as a career. 1


### Today I can tell you the Sierra Club, 2


### we've got 250 people that came in support for 3


### this hearing just today alone. We have over 550 4



### people who RSVP'd and myself and countless 5


### volunteers, countless people in this room, 6



### elsewhere ha ve devoted themselves because they 7


### are hearing these stories, too. 8


### And just in the last few years

-- I've 9


### lived in Colorado for three years now, and I just 10


### recently bought a house. I've seen lightning 11


### strikes behind Boulder where suddenly a fire 12



### erupted and you see the smoke coming over the 13


### mountainside. And I was tweeting, and found out 14



### when one woman came up next to me I evacuated 15


### NOAA because they were following my tweets and 16


### once the flames are going over the mountainside, 17


### they decided to evacuate. 18



### And I

-- it was a Nationals verse 19


### Rockies' game and driving home and suddenly you 20


### see the apocalyptic plume coming from Colorado 21


### Springs when that fire erupted. 22

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### I remember I was in Fargo, North Dakota, 1


### driving through there and seeing a berm of a mud 2


### dike where you are staring a second story window 3


### on one side, and you're staring at the top of 4


### water on the other. I just

-- the amount of 5


### stories that continue to happen and are 6


### continuing to happen is terrifying. 7


### Even just a couple weeks ago I was in

- - 8


### going through Kansas where the wheat is this 9


### tall. How are we going to feed a country? How 10


### are we going to feed a world where suddenly our 11


### crops are no longer working? 12



### A week before that I was in west Denver, 13


### stepped outside on my front porch, heard t he 14


### tornado sirens. What do you know? A giant 15


### funnel cloud is circling. And thank God that 16


### thing did not land. 17


### Our climate is changing and the Clean 18


### Power Plan going to 30 percent is great. We need 19


### to go to 100 percent. We need to make this as 20



### strong as possible because we cannot afford to 21



### wait. 22

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### A few years I went through New Orleans. 1



### There are still boats in the streets. I will 2


### continue to devote my life whether it's a Sierra 3


### Club or whatever actions I need to do to fight 4



### for the clean

-- for clima te change and to make 5


### sure we solve this issue. The great news is that 6



### we do have solutions. 7



### The Public Utilities Commission here in 8


### Colorado say that the average wind farm saves us 9


### $100 million over 25 years. Additionally, we see 10


### that rooftop solar wit h storage is now cost 11


### competitive to the utility grid power in Hawaii 12



### and soon to be in California, Arizona, and New 13


### York. Colorado is fairly soon behind that. 14


### And what gets me personally so excited 15


### about where we are today, right now, is it's not 16


### just a story of tragedy which is what we've been 17


### enduring for so long, and I've seen so many tears 18


### and so many people's lives broken because of 19


### this; it's now a story of solutions and 20


### opportunity where we're creating thousands of 21


### jobs right here in Colorado. Ju st last week 800 22

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### new jobs being created with Vestas. 1



### And this Clean Power Plan is the true 2


### foundation to get us started moving in that 3


### direction that we absolutely must go if we're 4


### going to take these issues seriously. 5



### (Buzzer sounded.) 6



### MR. CARTER: S o I want to thank you for 7



### all of your hard work, the long day, the long 8


### weeks leading up to this moment, but certainly 9


### thank you for everything that you do to get this 10


### Clean Power Plan to where it is today and to make 11



### sure we excel into tomorrow with it. Appreciate 12



### it. 13


### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. So at this 14


### point we have no more speakers that are on the 15


### list. My understanding is they've consolidated 16


### both rooms into this one, and at this point why 17



### don't we take a five minute break? This session 18


### is suppose d to close at 8:00 o'clock, and we'll 19


### just make sure that we don't have anybody else 20


### that's signed up to speak. 21


### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm signed up. 22

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### MS. VIDETICH: You are signed up, okay. 1


### Is there anyone else in the audience that 2


### is signed up that we haven't called? 3


### (Indicating.) 4



### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. Then please come 5


### forward. If you would give us your name and 6



### spell your last name, please? Thank you. 7


### MR. FOWLER: Yes, my name is Henry 8



### Fowler, F

- O

- W

- L

- E

- R. 9


### I just wanted to say a few things about 10



### the proposed rule. I

-- this proposed rule puts 11


### forth a system to achieve significant carbon 12


### emission reductions while allowing states the 13


### flexibility to implement workable solutions for 14


### the power sector in their state. The way that 15


### power is produced, di stributed, and used is 16



### alr ea dy changing due to advancements in 17


### innovative power sector tec hnologies and in the 18


### availability and cost of low carbon fuel, 19


### renewable energy, and energy efficient demand 20


### side technologies as well as economic conditions. 21



### In add ition, the average age of the coal 22

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### fired generating fleet is increasing. In 2025 1


### the average age of the coal fired generating 2


### fleet is projected to be 49 years old and 20 3


### percent of units would be more 60 years old if 4


### they remain in operation at that time

. 5



### Therefore, even in the absence of 6


### additional environmental regulations, states and 7


### utilities can be expected to be and already are 8


### making plans to address the changes necessitated 9


### by the aging of current assets and 10



### infrastructure. 11



### One of the solutions to this problem that 12


### EPA has put forth is energy efficiency which 13


### implies maintaining or increasing output while 14


### decreasing energy consumption. Using energy more 15


### efficiently means reducing the rate at which 16


### energy is used while maintaining or improving ou r 17


### level of comfort and use for functionality. 18


### Examples include improving insulation and 19


### lower heating and cooling bills, and using LED 20


### light bulbs instead of century old technologies 21


### to light our homes. The fact of the matter is 22

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### that we in America don' t even know how energy 1


### efficient we can be. Technology and ingenuity 2


### have already lowered electricity demand beyond 3


### all expectations. It may be that we are already 4


### at or near peak electrical demand in the United 5



### States. 6


### The American Council for an Energ y 7


### Efficient Economy estimates that if every state 8


### adopted just the following four policies, 9


### including implementation of modest energy 10


### efficiency savings targets, enactment of modern 11


### building energy codes, enactment of modest 12


### regulations to incentivize comb ined heat and 13


### power systems, and adoption of modest efficiency 14


### standards for certain appliances and products. 15



### In 2030 carbon dioxide emissions from the 16



### power sector would be reduced by 26 percent 17


### relative to 2012 emissions; and power demand 18



### would be reduc ed by 25 percent. 19



### In addition, we would avoid 600 million 20


### tons of carbon dioxide, save over 925 megawatt 21


### hours of electricity, and obviate the need for 22

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### hundreds of power plants in 2030. 1


### ACEEE's analysis finds that these 2


### proposed efficiency policies would increase 3


### National Gross Domestic Product by 17 billion and 4


### produce a net gain of about 600,000 jobs by 2030. 5


### One issue I see in the proposed rule that 6


### I hope EPA will address in its final rule is to 7


### clarify the following from the Preamble which 8



### states, t he EPA is also proposing that measures 9



### that a state takes after the date of this 10


### proposal or programs already in place which 11


### result in CO2 emission reductions during the 2020 12


### to 2030 period would apply toward achievement of 13


### the state's 2030 CO2 emissions g oal. 14



### It's unclear from this statement whether 15


### states that wish to take early action would be 16



### able to be credited for these actions. This 17


### statement could provide a perverse incentive for 18



### a state to wait until it's closer the 2020 19


### timeframe to implement it s best ideas. 20


### I believe that there is nothing more 21


### important for our nation than to protect our 22

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### environment, and I would like to commend the 1


### Supreme Court for ruling that greenhouse gases 2


### can be regulated as a threat to public health. 3



### I would also like to commend the 4


### President for his leadership and also EPA 5


### Commissioner McCarthy and the entire EPA Air 6


### Program for their leadership and thoughtful 7



### consideration of this rule which holds so much 8


### promise for our country. 9


### The Clean Air Act, 111(d) proposed r ule, 10


### compliments and reinforces the trajectory ethic, 11


### increased energy efficiency, and the reduction of 12


### carbon in our atmosphere, and places the United 13


### States in a position of leadership that other 14


### high carbon emitting countries cannot ignore 15



### while at the same time building positive momentum 16


### for economic activity and job growth. Thank you 17



### very much. 18



### MS. VIDETICH: So, my understanding then 19


### is that we have concluded with our last speaker 20


### just now. The hearing is scheduled to be over at 21



### 8:00, but we have n o more speakers. 22

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### I want to thank all of you that have been 1


### speakers today for giving your testimony. I 2


### thank the folks that came today to listen, for 3


### being here, and giving your full listening 4



### abilities. 5


### The hearing is now closed for today. I 6



### would ask you all that are here to please exit 7


### the building in kind of an orderly and quick 8



### manner. 9



### It's been a long day for a lot of us, and 10


### I wish you all safe travels home. And for those 11


### that might be here tomorrow, we'll see you then. 12



### Thank you. 13


### [Whereupon, at 7 :5 4 p.m., the public 14


### hearing was concluded.] 15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

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