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S. HRG. 110–414

REALIZING A COMPETITIVE EDUCATION:

IDENTIFYING NEEDS, PARTNERSHIPS,

AND RESOURCES

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

MARCH 20, 2007

(

Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE

MAX BAUCUS, Montana, Chairman

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota

JEFF BINGAMAN, New Mexico

JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas

RON WYDEN, Oregon

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington

KEN SALAZAR, Colorado

CHUCK GRASSLEY, Iowa

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah

TRENT LOTT, Mississippi

OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine

JON KYL, Arizona

CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming

GORDON SMITH, Oregon

JIM BUNNING, Kentucky

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas

RUSSELL SULLIVAN, Staff Director

KOLAN DAVIS, Republican Staff Director and Chief Counsel

(II)

(III)

C O N T E N T S

OPENING STATEMENTS

Page

Baucus, Hon. Max, a U.S. Senator from Montana, chairman, Committee

on Finance ............................................................................................................ 1

Grassley, Hon. Chuck, a U.S. Senator from Iowa ................................................. 3

WITNESSES

Wise, Hon. Bob, former Governor of West Virginia and president, Alliance

for Excellent Education, Washington, DC .......................................................... 5

Karas, Dr. Jane, president, Flathead Valley Community College, Kalispell,

MT ......................................................................................................................... 7

Green, William, chief executive officer, Accenture, Boston, MA .......................... 9

Taylor, Gregory, vice president, Programs for Youth and Education, Kellogg

Foundation, Battle Creek, MI ............................................................................. 11

Myers, Patty, teacher, Lewis and Clark Elementary, Great Falls, MT .............. 13

Paine, Dr. Steven L., State Superintendent, West Virginia Department of

Education, Charleston, WV ................................................................................. 14

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL

Baucus, Hon. Max:

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1

Bunning, Hon. Jim:

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 31

Grassley, Hon. Chuck:

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 3

Green, William:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 9

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 32

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 38

Karas, Dr. Jane:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 42

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 48

Myers, Patty:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 13

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 52

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 63

Paine, Dr. Steven L.:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 14

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 71

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 78

Salazar, Hon. Ken:

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 93

Schumer, Hon. Charles E.:

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 95

Taylor, Gregory:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 11

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 97

Wise, Hon. Bob:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 112

Page

IV

COMMUNICATION

National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities (NAICU) ......... 119

(1)

REALIZING A COMPETITIVE EDUCATION:

IDENTIFYING NEEDS, PARTNERSHIPS,

AND RESOURCES

TUESDAY, MARCH 20, 2007

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE,

Washington, DC.

The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m., in

room SD–215, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Max Baucus

(chairman of the committee) presiding.

Present: Senators Rockefeller, Bingaman, Kerry, Lincoln,

Stabenow, Salazar, Grassley, Snowe, Smith, and Bunning.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR

FROM MONTANA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON FINANCE

The CHAIRMAN. The hearing will come to order.

An article in the December 18 edition of Time magazine began

with this story: ‘‘Rip Van Winkle awakens in the 21st century after

a 100-year snooze and is, of course, utterly bewildered by what he

sees. Men and women dash about, talking to small metal devices

pinned to their ears; older folk defy death with metronomes in

their chest; airports, hospitals, shopping malls, every place Rip

goes just baffles him. But when he finally walks into the school

room, the old man knows exactly where he is. ‘This is school,’ he

declares. We used to have these back in 1906. Now the only change

is, the blackboards are green.’’

The story sheds some light on where we are in education. We

have been sleeping for years, and it is time to wake up. We need

to wake up before the world around us changes, wake up before

100 years goes by and we wake up bewildered. By that time it will

be too late.

America faces a world more integrated, more interdependent,

and more competitive than ever. It is our challenge to succeed in

this new environment. It is our challenge to create an economy in

which investment in our youth is our greatest asset, not our heaviest burden. It is our challenge to leave our children and grandchildren with an economy that is better than the one we inherited.

We must meet this challenge.

Meeting this challenge begins with addressing education. We

must change the way that we look at education. As policymakers,

we tend to look at our education challenge like a multiple-choice

test: we want to choose between a few simple options.

2

But the answers are not as simple as A, B, or C. We must look

at our challenge, perhaps, as if it were a math proof. We must

think through every step to reach the end result. The process is as

important as the outcome. The outcome must be appropriate to today’s needs, but the outcome must also be appropriate for the

needs of the future.

One hundred years from now—even 10 years from now—our society will be very different from what we see today. If we find the

right solution, our students will excel in school. If we find the right

solution, our graduates will be ready to enter the workforce. And,

if we find the right solution, America will retain its economic leadership.

But, if we look only for simple options, we may never get there.

I spent much of the past 2 years planning a comprehensive competitiveness agenda. I have spoken about it on the Senate floor. I

have produced bills on trade, energy, savings, research, and education, all designed to enhance America’s competitive position in

the world.

My education bill, which is the foundation, I believe, of competitiveness, embraces education at all stages. It addresses early education, all the way through higher education, continuing education,

and worker training.

In this Congress, I will work towards solutions that promote our

economic competitiveness. I want to work with Republicans and

Democrats, because it does not make any difference. This is not an

ideological issue; this is one that depends on practical, sound, pragmatics to just get the job done. I want to move legislation that addresses our challenges and points us towards success.

The Finance Committee will hold hearings that go beyond simple

multiple choice answers. We will hold hearings that address the big

picture. I intend to have a good number of hearings.

This is the Finance Committee. It is not formally known as the

Education Committee, but we are going to make this the Education

Committee, too, along with Senator Kennedy, the HELP Committee, and other committees in Congress, because this is just so

important, working together to move the ball even further.

Today’s hearing is a step in the proof to solve our education challenge. The first step is to identify our needs, then to identify resources, and next to identify partnerships. We invited witnesses

who will do just that. We will hear about the needs of our teachers

and the shape of our schools; we will hear about our community

colleges and how they are fostering economic development; we will

identify what resources we have and what resources we still need.

We will learn about unique partnerships to promote innovation

and 21st-century skills, and we will learn how the business community is getting involved in developing their future workforce,

and how they can partner with others to help achieve our common

goal.

We will begin with the process of solving our proof. Let us not

be complacent. Let us not end up like Rip Van Winkle. Rather, let

us wake up to meet the education challenge so, if Rip were to wake

up today, or 100 years from today, he would see that the United

States of America is where the action is in education.

Senator Grassley?

3

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHUCK GRASSLEY,

A U.S. SENATOR FROM IOWA

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you.

First of all, this committee has very much to do with education,

and your expanding the role is very much welcome by a lot of people, most importantly people who are involved in sending kids to

college.

There are a lot of things we have to do this year to continue programs that have already been started and expand on those programs, so I thank you very much for your leadership in that area.

This is a very large, vitally important topic. With his 2006—and I

want to emphasize—the 2006 State of the Union message, President Bush highlighted the urgency of aligning education in our

country with the skills of Americans and what they will need to remain economically competitive on a global scale.

The President has proposed a series of actions to improve education in the fields of science and technology, and he calls this the

American Competitiveness Initiative. This has sparked a nationwide discussion. I know that I have heard from colleges and universities in Iowa, as well as industries that rely on a technologically

skilled workforce, that this is the proper direction that our discussion of education needs to be taking, particularly in the global economic environment that we are in. And whether I am talking to

Iowans or people from outside of Iowa, they agree with the President that this ought to be a priority.

It is now up to Congress to respond to the President’s call to action, and our committee can play a part. Of course, one complication any time you talk about trying to affect education policy on a

national basis is that we have a Federal system and State and local

governments have had the primary responsibility, in the 225-year

history of our country, for education because they know best the

needs of their particular communities.

I doubt if our constitutional writers had this in mind, but with

a Nation that has expanded as geographically as we have during

that period of time, and particularly as heterogeneous as our population is, it is quite foolhardy to think that we are going to be able

to make policy in Washington, DC that is going to fit every particular community the way that it needs to be for that community.

So, we are lucky to have this Federal system.

But taken together, the United States as a whole spends the second-most per student on education in the industrialized world, according to the OECD. That is $12,023 per student annually, second

only to Switzerland at $12,071. In fact, in spending on education

institutions, according to the OECD, the United States, as a percentage of GDP, is spending 7.5 percent, second only to Israel and

tied with Korea. In fact, spending on education has been increasing

faster than GDP. Still, we rank among the bottom of the OECD

countries in math proficiency. In fact, we are 24th out of 29.

The problem, clearly, is not spending, but achievement. We have

a tangled web of education initiatives at the Federal level to address perceived needs, including many tax incentives under the jurisdiction of this committee. We need to, in this hearing—and other

hearings will give us an opportunity—to look at whether these are

effective or whether they duplicate and contradict one another. In

4

my view, the simplest and most effective way to reform education

is to give decision-making, and rely on it, to States and local governments, and better yet, to parents and students. We can try our

best to incentivize this behavior or that, but, if you give students

and parents the means, they will make the right decisions, both for

themselves and, by extension, the Nation.

I have in front of me—and I am not going to go into detail about

it because I have just about concluded my remarks, but when it

comes to what we spend on education per pupil—and the latest figures I have from the Department of Education are for 2002 to

2003—of the 50 States, my State of Iowa, at that time, was spending $7,574.

I am not going to name the States, but there are five or six

States here that are spending in the five figures, in other words,

between $10,000 and almost $13,000 per student, at the same time

my State of Iowa is spending $7,574.

I will put the results of our students, however you want to measure them, by ACT or SAT, against any of those States that have

a higher expenditure, and almost twice what my State has, not as

a clear-cut opinion that more money is not needed in education, but

that measuring the success of education just by money is not going

to solve our problems.

We tend to solely blame teachers or institutions of public education for the problems, but I have come to the conclusion that

families are at the heart of changing the attitude towards education if we are going to get more bang for our buck in education,

or if we are going to get an attitude among the people that the government ought to spend a lot more on education.

That is, families are going to have to come to the conclusion that

books are more important than sports as far as school is concerned,

that homework is more important than TV, and that weekends are

not just for leisure, and parents have to be more involved in the

education of their kids.

I look back at my involvement in the education of my kids and

I have to say that Father Grassley was a darned poor father when

it comes to being involved in the education of his kids. But I see

in my own children, working with their kids, my grandchildren,

that this generation, at least in the Grassley family, is much more

involved than I was.

Now, see, I am preaching and I do not have the right to preach,

but I think I see what is wrong with education. We do not take

education as seriously as we could. I keep trying to hit into the

head of my grandson that whatever he gets in his head, nobody is

going to steal from him, but what you have in your pockets, people

can take away from you. You ought to get it in your head and get

it learned. I am trying to get him to understand that it is not just

one Grassley that is going to make a difference, but the young generation, learning more, is going to keep this country competitive.

You have to get these kids thinking in terms of the global economy

that we are. If they want America to be great 25 years from now,

they have to start now to take education seriously.

I am done.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. That is a very good message.

5

Now, our witnesses. The first witness is a former Congressman

and former Governor of West Virginia, Bob Wise. Governor Wise is

the president of the Alliance for Excellent Education. He will tell

us about the economic consequences of having so many students

drop out of high school, and what we can do in our high schools

to change this trend.

Next is Dr. Jane Karas, president of Flathead Valley Community

College in Montana. Dr. Karas will discuss community colleges and

how community colleges are making a difference in educating our

future workforce.

Next, Mr. William Green, chairman and CEO of Accenture. He

will discuss Accenture’s education initiatives and how other businesses can get involved in these types of partnerships.

Next to Mr. Green is Gregory Taylor, vice president of Programs

for Youth and Education, W.K. Kellogg Foundation. Mr. Taylor will

discuss Kellogg’s Supporting Partnerships to Assure Ready Kids,

otherwise known as SPARK, that initiative, and how we can get

kids ready to learn.

Patty Myers is a 2nd-grade teacher at Lewis and Clark Elementary in Great Falls, MT. She will shed light on the needs of our

schools and our teachers, and she has won lots of awards, Patty

has, for being an excellent teacher.

Finally, Dr. Steven Paine, State Superintendent of Schools for

the West Virginia Department of Education. Dr. Paine will talk

about West Virginia’s unique partnership with 21st-century learning skills.

I would like each of you to confine your remarks to roughly 5

minutes, and then we will have questions and conversation here.

I might say, too, I have to attend a meeting. Senator Reid called

a meeting that starts in 20 minutes. I did not know about this

until this morning. So I will go to that meeting.

My partner, Senator Grassley, co-chairman of this committee in

virtually all respects, will then chair this hearing. If he cannot

make it, then Senator Rockefeller will join in and I will try to get

back. Thank you very, very much for taking the time to come here.

Governor Wise?

STATEMENT OF HON. BOB WISE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF

WEST VIRGINIA AND PRESIDENT, ALLIANCE FOR EXCELLENT EDUCATION, WASHINGTON, DC

Governor WISE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the

committee. I am pleased to be here. You focused well and discussed

well what the subject needs to be. This is about the convergence

of education and the economy, and they are clearly one and the

same now, and each impacts the other.

The Alliance for Excellent Education, which I represent, is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization here in Washington, DC with the

mission that every child should graduate from high school collegeready or ready for the modern workplace and to take their place

as a citizen.

I think the critical nature of this hearing is borne out by the fact

that, when I had the privilege of serving West Virginia, Senator

Rockefeller was the prime leader in economic development, personVerDate 11-MAY-2000 15:08 Jul 16, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 42659.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1
6

ally going across the country and the world, recruiting high-paying

jobs to our State.

Yet, he found, and I know I found, how vital it was that, as he

brought those prospects there, there was a well-qualified workforce

for those highly paid jobs, and that is what Superintendent Paine,

I think, represents well: the need to have that highly qualified

workforce. High school is the jumping off spot for the workforce.

Before you and I go home, before the last school bus pulls away

from the last school somewhere on the West Coast tonight, 7,000

of our children will have dropped out of high school. That is about

1.2 million a year.

That also is complicated by the fact that another third of our

children will finish high school not ready for college or the modern

workplace, so, at the end of our high school years, we have two out

of three of our young people not ready to compete in today’s modern society.

The CHAIRMAN. You said 7,000 will drop out?

Governor WISE. Almost 7,000 will drop out today, sir, each and

every school day.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Governor WISE. The calculations that my organization has done,

in economic terms, on this, I think, are staggering. For instance,

the class of 2006 that dropped out, they did not walk across the

commencement stage, will cost about $309 billion in lost wages

during their lifetime. Now, multiply that by a decade, if changes

are not made.

Health care costs for drop-outs—Medicaid, essentially—are about $17 billion alone over their lifetime. Remediation costs in community colleges—essentially that is PELL grants going to pay for the

same education twice—are $4 billion between the costs of remediation and lost wages. If we could only increase the graduation rate

of males 5 percent in this country, we would save around $8 billion

in crime-related costs.

Finally, because of the achievement gap—that is, the disparities

in graduation rates and achievement rates—between children of

color and their white counterparts, if we could reduce that achievement gap, get parity by the year 2020, it would mean another $310

billion a year in income coming in in new wages.

Also, as you pointed out, Mr. Chairman, this committee, as it

takes on the very tough issues of international trade and global

competition, needs to recognize the fact that, according to the

OECD, we are 17th in graduation rates among developed nations,

we are 15th in reading performance for 15-year-olds, and we are

24th in terms of math performance.

This committee, as it also makes its decisions, often looks at return on investment. I would point to a recent Columbia Teacher’s

College study that recognizes that a 4-year college degree means,

now, up to $1.3 million more in income over a high school dropout.

But, even more significantly to the Federal coffers, it means about

$674,000 more in taxes being paid by the college graduate over the

high school dropout. That does not even get into the social costs of

dropping out.

The high school graduate also will pay about $150,000 more in

taxes than the high school dropout. What we are talking about, and

7

what I outlined in my testimony—and perhaps we can get into it

in questions later—is systemic reform. The high school system is

a system where I happen to think everyone is trying to perform

very well. The only problem is, in the 21st century we are operating on a 19th-century model. It was designed in the 19th century.

It essentially functions that way. People are running flat out, but

the system needs changing. So, while it does require more investment—and if I might just do, if I could very quickly, an air graph,

Mr. Chairman—this is $18 billion from the table to here.

What that represents is the Federal investment in birth to grade

6. Basically, title I and Head Start, with some Reading First. Over

here, Mr. Chairman, is higher education. It is around $15 billion.

That represents, basically, PELL grants with student aid. It does

not represent guaranteed student loans. That would go much higher.

Now, if I could point out what we are spending, the Federal expenditure on investment in middle schools, it is $2.3 billion, and

in high schools it is $2.3 billion. So what we do is, we are actually

seeing return on investment in our early grades, and we still have

one of the most internationally renowned higher education systems

in the world. But where we are seeing the decline is where we also

drop the investment off, and that is in middle schools and high

schools.

One quick observation and one quick recommendation—there are

a number in my testimony about what can be done about it—is to

approach it systematically, to work on a comprehensive secondary

school improvement fund that would target Federal funds, in conjunction with the States and the districts, to turn around the lowest-performing high schools. We know where they are, we know

what works, and we have to have the will to do it.

So, I thank you very, very much for calling this important hearing to point out not just the educational imperative, but also the

economic one.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, that was very good. When we get to questions, I would like to hear about some of your ideas about systemic

changes. I appreciate that very much.

[The prepared statement of Governor Wise appears in the appendix.]

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Karas?

STATEMENT OF DR. JANE KARAS, PRESIDENT, FLATHEAD

VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE, KALISPELL, MT

Dr. KARAS. Good morning, Chairman Baucus and members of the

committee. I am Dr. Jane Karas, president of Flathead Valley Community College in Kalispell, MT. Senator Baucus, as always, it is

great to see you.

As you know, I offer this testimony on behalf of the American Association of Community Colleges, representing nearly 1,200 colleges

across the United States. Over the past 20 years, concerned members of Congress like yourselves worked hard to create tax incentives to support community college students and their families.

Yet, many students, when pressed, will tell you, while well-intentioned, these incentives have failed them. I do not need to convince

8

you that community colleges are the backbone of the Montana, and

U.S., workforce; with your help, we consistently do more with less.

But we all know that access to and persistence in college still remain largely tied to income. In fact, in 2004, the college continuation rate for high school graduates from low-income families was

just 42 percent, while double that from families with high incomes.

We all agree, the stakes are high.

In the 2002 tax year, more than 10 million students claimed the

HOPE scholarship tax credit, Lifetime Learning tax credit, or tuition deduction. That is two-thirds of every student attending higher

education in this country.

Be that as it may, these incentives all prohibit students from

claiming non-tuition expenses. Yet, my students will tell you this

harms community college students, since tuition is a fraction of

their total investment.

The average tuition for a full-time community college student is about $2,300. However, real costs of attending a community college

include books, transportation, and living expenses, bringing the

total cost to more than $12,000 per year.

The unfortunate exclusion of non-tuition costs from some of these

tax instruments works against otherwise well-intentioned student

aid policies.

As you are aware, Mr. Chairman, students used PELL grants,

Stafford loans, and Federal work study to cover room, board, and

transportation. This has always been the case and is critical to the

success of meaningful student assistance programs.

However, it is unfortunate, in this time of rising college tuition,

that public policy disadvantages students who choose to attend a

community college. I would encourage you to consider modifying

higher education financing tools like these to allow non-tuition expenses.

Senator Baucus, in the past you will recall our conversations at

my campus when home in Montana. We have had many good talks

about Montanans who tell us that if the HOPE tax credit were refundable it would make a measurable financial impact for them

and their families.

Unfortunately, our neediest college students are prevented from

taking advantage of the HOPE tax credit. Although the provision

was designed to address the issues of double dipping, in practice

this provision inadvertently denies non-tuition college expenses. A

formula with these characteristics would ensure that students who

choose to attend community colleges receive a more useful benefit.

Once again, Chairman Baucus, as a Montanan I always remain

so grateful for the opportunities you consistently extend to individuals like me who work hard with you to ensure our constituents,

and Americans, are well-served.

As you know, Montana is an extremely large and diverse State,

and even basic travel is no simple matter. For these Montanans,

non-tuition related expenses such as fuel sometimes represent a

thin line between success and failure.

Oftentimes, students who attend Flathead Valley Community

College may travel hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of miles in

a month to diligently attend their classes and earn their degrees.

Non-tuition related expenses, like the cost of a tank of fuel, can

9

mean the difference between a student’s ability to attend class or

not.

In this time of rising prices for fuel, our college has even created

a special assistance fund to support students with these types of

special non-tuition related needs which do keep them from attending college and being successful. Thank you for inviting me to testify and to put a face on issues prevailing among Montana community colleges and those across the country.

Chairman Baucus, you and your colleagues have a specific opportunity to adjust tax instruments to provide useful assistance to students and their families. Our students and their families would be

pleased to further discuss this matter with you and your colleagues

if you would find it useful.

Our students continue to rely upon this committee for support.

The American Association of Community Colleges stands ready to

work with the committee in this endeavor. As you know, Senator

Baucus, you and your staff can always count on me. I would be

happy to answer any questions, now or in the future. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Jane.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Karas appears in the appendix.]

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Green?

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM GREEN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER,

ACCENTURE, BOSTON, MA

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Grassley, and

members of the committee. I am delighted to be here today to have

a chance to speak with you.

I am the Chairman and CEO of Accenture, but I did not start

out that way. I started out as a plumber’s son from Western Massachusetts, and I am going to tell you a little bit about that story

as we go.

Accenture, today, has 150,000 people in 49 countries. We have

30,000 employees here in the United States, and we are currently

hiring 7,000 new employees into our company. So, this agenda of

education and preparedness for the workforce is essential to us.

In order for us to accomplish our mission, which is helping other

companies be competitive and to be competitive ourselves, we need

to attract talented and educated people.

Finding talent to improve competitiveness is the number-one

issue on the CEO agenda today. The foundation of a competitive

company is a competitive workforce, and in order to get a competitive workforce, education is the key enabler to do that.

As the world becomes flat and moves faster, we have to make an

increased investment in education, particularly in math and

science. Equally important, however, we need to raise the water

table of education across our country.

I am an active member of the Business Roundtable’s Task Force

on Education, and we believe the United States is, quite frankly,

facing a talent gap. To close that gap, there are a series of things

we need to do: strengthen K–12 math and science education, recruit and train outstanding math and science teachers, increase

funding for basic research, and expand undergraduate programs

and graduate programs in science and engineering.

10

But beyond that, we need people with skills in critical thinking,

analytic reasoning, and problem-solving. We need people who can

communicate. We need to enhance the richness and diversity of our

workforce, and we need people who have the confidence to face the

future. That is what Accenture and countless other companies are

looking for, what I would call great raw material.

Government, while an important catalyst, cannot make these

changes without the committed partnership of the business community, and we recognize our responsibility and obligation to work on

this.

That is why the Business Roundtable has initiatives to help with

the quality of K–12, inspire new generations of Americans to pursue degrees in careers in science, technology, engineering, and

math, and, more broadly, businesses prepared to invest in competitiveness in countless other ways.

If you look at Accenture, we donate extensively to higher education. We have created scholarship programs and have teamed

with educational institutions to create curricula and to train our

employees. In addition, we spend $700 million a year to train our employees.

We will invest even more as our workforce continues to grow. I

mention this because I think it is an important signal of what business is prepared to do in order to get a competitive workforce.

We are also doing some innovative things to create talent.

Accenture is involved in innovative business ventures with Native

American tribes in Wolf Point, MT and in Pendleton, OR, which

Senator Smith would know.

In both cases, we are training Native Americans and others for

technology-related jobs, reaching out to create talent and improve

the competitiveness of the workforce. I applaud the committee’s

focus on competitiveness in education now that intellectual capital

is at an absolute premium.

I believe there are three principles we have to broadly embrace.

First, access, providing access to educational opportunities. Second,

affordability, making education a reality by reducing financial barriers. Third, accountability, that we are teaching what is relevant

and delivering good value for money.

In developing your proposals, I would encourage you to give special attention to the needs of community and junior college students. Ensuring our Nation’s competitive position in the world requires greater access to higher education, and I believe we have a

tremendous resource in our Nation’s junior and community colleges. These institutions are often overlooked and under-appreciated, not unlike the people who attend them.

I will share with you a personal story and why I am a shameless

advocate for these institutions. I credit Dean College, a 2-year

school outside of Boston, with preparing me for the future.

As I said, I am the proud son of a plumber from Western Massachusetts. I was not an especially good student. I went to work in

construction, and I was destined to become a plumber like my dad.

Then one day I went to visit friends at this very special school. My

mind-set began to change.

I realized it was an opportunity to change my path, an opportunity to take another shot at learning. Dean, this very small, yet

11

special school, reached a hand out to me. I can honestly say it was

a life-altering experience.

Would I be running a global company with thousands of employees today if I had followed a different path? I do not know. I know

there is no doubt in my mind that my 2 years at Dean prepared

me for advancing my education and transformed me as a person.

Our network of junior and community colleges can produce these

results, and I am a living example of that.

Mr. Chairman, I know you are well-aware of the competitive

challenges. I think they have been discussed here. We need to do

everything we can to enhance access, affordability, and accountability. Learning is, now, the highest form of capital. In answer to

maintaining U.S. competitiveness in an ever-flattening world, we

all must work together to focus on education as the key enabler of

competitiveness and success.

I am happy to take your questions. Thank you.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you, Mr. Green.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Green appears in the appendix.]

Senator GRASSLEY. Mr. Taylor?

STATEMENT OF GREGORY TAYLOR, VICE PRESIDENT, PROGRAMS FOR YOUTH AND EDUCATION, KELLOGG FOUNDATION, BATTLE CREEK, MI

Mr. TAYLOR. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the

committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is

Gregory Taylor. I am the vice president of Programs for Youth and

Education at the W.K. Kellogg Foundation.

The Kellogg Foundation is a national, private, independent foundation that works in the community from the ground up. We have

a particular commitment to vulnerable children.

For 75 years, education has been core to our mission. We are one

of the 10 largest foundations in the country, and grant roughly

$300 million a year in grants to deserving organizations.

I also have the privilege of serving as the National Director of

the SPARK initiative. SPARK, as we heard the Chairman refer to

earlier, stands for Supporting Partnerships to Assure Ready Kids.

We are in seven States—Ohio, New Mexico, Georgia, Mississippi,

Hawaii, North Carolina, Florida—and the District of Columbia. We

are in 20 communities in those States, and we have an equal distribution between urban and rural communities.

The goal, really, of SPARK is to get kids ready for school, schools

ready for kids, and to mobilize communities to care about the

learning needs of all children.

In my written testimony, there is much more detail on SPARK,

but I want to use my time today to highlight five high-impact strategies that we think really lead to the learning outcomes for young

children.

Briefly, I know many folks are familiar with the brain research

that says investing early in the education of young children really

is important, because learning begins at birth. We also know that,

unfortunately, 1 in 3 children is unprepared, either developmentally or academically, to enter kindergarten.

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I want to talk about high-impact strategies. The first is ensuring

a successful transition from early learning environments to the

K–3 system.

Currently, the early childhood education and the K–3 system are

two distinctly different systems. They do not necessarily communicate with each other. They have different curricula, different

teaching practices. They use different assessment practices.

We have to work to get them better aligned so that that first

transition for young children from the day care or early learning

environment into the K–3 system is a thoughtful one, and is a successful transition.

Second, we need to help early education environments be more

academically rigorous, and we need to help the K–3 system be

more developmentally appropriate. Improving the quality of early

childhood education settings is important. We need to work with

both formal and informal child care settings; formal are accredited

institutions, informal are unaccredited institutions. We know, for

poor and vulnerable children, the overwhelming majority are in informal settings.

We need to think about improving quality environments. We

know that bright, stimulating, safe, developmentally-appropriate

environments have a direct impact on the learning success of young

children.

Providing support to parents and families promotes early learning and success. That is the third point I would like to make. We

know that parents are the first, and usually the most influential,

teachers in young children’s lives.

We know that we need to help parents increase their own literacy—increase family literacy, as it were—because parents who

are strong in literacy will help children be strong and literate readers also. We need to increase the ability of parents to provide support for their children.

Fourth, partnerships between individuals, families, and institutions matter. At the Kellogg Foundation, and I am sure in the committee, we believe that educating every child in America is a doable

endeavor. We know that tough issues abound and that you cannot

do this alone, and we must work in partnership.

So, we must develop primary partnerships between families and

institutions, and we must develop policy partnerships between

school districts, State agencies, child advocates, and the business

community.

The Foundation invests along an age continuum of 0 to 24. On

the front end we invest in early education and care, and on the

back end we invest in identifying multiple options for young people.

The committee expressed interest in our new Options for Youth

initiative, the goal of which is to create a viable alternative to the

high school diploma and associate’s degree for out-of-school young

people.

We need to work in partnership with business to determine new

ways to educate and train our workforce, and that is the goal of

New Options. Both ends of the continuum, we believe, are critically

important.

Recommendations for the committee are: to create incentives for

schools and communities to work more closely to provide comVerDate 11-MAY-2000 15:08 Jul 16, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 42659.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1
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prehensive services for young children; to build flexibility into

funding streams to communities that serve vulnerable populations

so that they can move and more easily partner with schools and

early learning settings; and to keep in mind that the learning continuum begins at birth and that investments in children from birth

to 8 years of age can be our wisest investments.

We need to encourage more Federal and State interagency partnerships on programs and policies that affect young children, and

we would like the committee to think of the Foundation as a key

partner.

Lastly, I would like to thank you for your interest and commitment to education. We would love to invite members of the committee to come out and visit SPARK sites in many of your States.

I thank you for your time.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you, Mr. Taylor.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Taylor appears in the appendix.]

Senator GRASSLEY. Now, Ms. Myers?

STATEMENT OF PATTY MYERS, TEACHER, LEWIS AND CLARK

ELEMENTARY, GREAT FALLS, MT

Ms. MYERS. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman and members

of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to address you today. I am proud to be here representing the 3.2 million

members of the National Education Association.

I am here to offer my unique perspective as a 37-year veteran of

the classroom. I teach 2nd grade at Lewis and Clark Elementary

in Great Falls, MT. I currently serve as the chair of the Montana

Board of Public Education, the first practicing teacher to hold that

position.

NEA members like myself go into education because we love children and we appreciate the importance of education. We are the

first to acknowledge that our public schools face many challenges.

We have too many children on the other side of achievement, skills,

and opportunity gaps. These gaps contradict everything that this

Nation stands for.

Today, I would like to offer ideas on how this committee can help

address some of those issues. I want to start by commending Chairman Baucus for his continuing work in this area. His Education

Competitiveness Act, introduced in the last Congress, contained a

number of innovative ideas for addressing educational quality, including funding for programs, encouraging teachers to serve in

rural and under-served areas, and voluntary universal pre-kindergarten programs focusing on child development. No single factor

will make a bigger difference in helping students reach high academic standards than ensuring quality educators.

Unfortunately, difficulty in attracting teachers and excessive

turnover rates hamper the ability to maintain a high-quality teaching and learning environment. The Nation has asked educators to

take on the most important challenge in ensuring America’s future,

yet we educators are denied economic security and respect.

My State faces a significant shortage of library media specialists,

music teachers, speech pathologists, and speech psychologists. We

are having trouble competing with other States on the recruitment

and retention of teachers. NEA recommends that all teachers in

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America enter the classroom earning at least $40,000 annually,

and that all education support professionals start their careers

earning at least a livable wage.

NEA also strongly supports the Teacher Tax Credit Act, introduced in the 109th Congress by Representative Heather Wilson.

This act would provide a non-refundable tax credit to educators

who work in eligible title I schools. In addition, we support legislation to increase, expand, and make permanent the tax deduction

for educators’ out-of-pocket expenses for classroom supplies.

Congress also needs to address school infrastructure. In Montana, outdated, and many times inadequate, school facilities are

impeding our ability to implement strategies proven to increase

student learning, such as class size reduction and full-day kindergarten.

This committee can help address those concerns by strengthening

the reauthorized Qualified Zone Academy Bond Program. We appreciate the work of the Chairman and Senators Grassley, Rockefeller, Conrad, and Lincoln in extending this vital program.

The committee can also assist in the building of newer, more

modern schools by considering the America’s Better Classroom Act

sponsored by Senator Rockefeller. Thank you so much.

I would like to conclude my testimony by addressing educator retirement security, an issue that is inextricably linked to maximizing student learning and fulfilling every child’s right to a great

public school.

Two offsets, the Government Pension Offset and the Windfall

Elimination Provision, unfairly reduced the Social Security benefits

certain public employees may receive. While I am not personally

impacted by these unfair offsets, many of my colleagues across the

country are.

The impact on them as individuals is devastating, but the impact

on the education profession, and consequently on the success of our

students, is equally troubling. While policy makers are encouraging

experienced people to change careers and to enter the teaching profession, individuals who have worked in other careers are less likely to want to become teachers.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I, and

the entire membership of the NEA, look forward to continued dialogue and action on these, and other, important issues.

Thank you.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you, Ms. Myers.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Myers appears in the appendix.]

Senator GRASSLEY. Now, Dr. Paine?

STATEMENT OF DR. STEVEN L. PAINE, STATE SUPERINTENDENT, WEST VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION,

CHARLESTON, WV

Dr. PAINE. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, distinguished Senators. And my special greetings to Senator Rockefeller, one of West Virginia’s, and America’s, outstanding

statesmen.

We in West Virginia believe our State is leading an educational

renaissance from which our students will graduate our public

schools ready to be contributing citizens of the 21st century. This

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work has begun because we realized the absolute necessity of a

world-class, competitive education.

Through our 21st Century Teaching and Learning Initiative, a

partnership in which we have joined with the Partnership for 21st

Century Skills, we believe that our graduates will enter a fiercely

competitive digital world equipped with the necessary intellectual

capital and the finely honed skills that will enable them to compete

as productive citizens of a diverse and interconnected world.

Interestingly, I would like to tell you how we got to the point of

where we are. Under the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, we

were one of three States to receive full approval for its Standards

and Accountability System, an assessment system.

As a result, all of our student subgroups’ achievement gaps in

West Virginia—our special education children, our minority students, our poor children, our low-income children, of which we have

many—are closing.

However, my first week on the job as State Superintendent of

Schools in July of 2005, the NAEP assessment results came out,

and we saw a very distinguishable and remarkable gap, if you will,

between the numbers of students demonstrating proficiency in No

Child Left Behind and the numbers of students demonstrating proficiency in our NAEP assessments; so, we knew we had a problem.

We went back and we did a curriculum audit of all our standards

and our assessments and we found that, even though we were one

of the first three States to receive full approval and were given

some accolades for our accomplishments in No Child Left Behind,

we had low levels of rigor on our standardized tests.

So the lessons learned are that we have completely redone our

content standards and objectives—our curriculum, if you will—and

we have infused what we think is world-class cognitive demand,

along with the relevant skills that are furthered by the Partnership

for 21st Century Skills of which we are a member, including problem-solving skills, critical thinking skills, teaching children to be

creative, innovative communicators, knowing how to use information and communication technology skills, incorporating content

areas such as global awareness, civic responsibility, personal economic literacy types of skills, wellness skills, developing new assessments to correspond and augment the NCLB assessment—

which in West Virginia we call WESTEST—to come up with a balanced method of assessment strategy so that we can assess those

aforementioned 21st-century skills.

In developing such a system, it is a proposition that costs resources, quite frankly, and resources that particularly West Virginia does not necessarily have, but perhaps could be leveraged

with partnerships that we would develop with our Governor, our

Federal Government, and perhaps the private sector.

Resources come in the form of time, money and people. For example, through the co-authorship of the E-rate legislation by Senator Rockefeller and Maine Senator Snowe, this country’s schools

and libraries have received $19 billion in discounted services for

cost of telecommunications, Internet access, and internal connections.

Of this amount, our schools alone in West Virginia have received

$60 million in discounted services, services that we provide to our

16

children for learning that could never have been realized without

this important partnership.

Private sector contributions can provide necessary resources for

our schools. For example, in 2003, again, Senator Rockefeller joined

with the Beaumont Foundation of America in announcing that

West Virginia would receive $700,000 for awarding need-based

grants for computer equipment.

These grants extended the benefits of the E-rate discount, which

does not allow the purchase of computer equipment, as you know,

by providing an avenue for securing the computer equipment that

could utilize the E-rate discount. This partnering of resources

served to support the work of our education process in West Virginia.

While the aforementioned resources have proven invaluable, it is

evident to me that our greatest resource today that is necessary,

our greatest need for resources, actually, is for the professional development of teachers, which my colleague has identified. Clearly,

the number-one factor in determining student achievement in our

public schools is a highly qualified teacher—as well, support for securing technology tools to captivate the interests of our digital natives that enter our public schools today. It is a very difficult task

to educate our children without those particular resources.

Let me provide just one more example of an incentive to build

21st-century schools and school systems. It could perhaps be a Federal incentive that would provide matching funds to States that develop and adopt educational policy in support of the critical elements of 21st-century learning: cognitive demand in the core subject areas; incorporating the thinking skills that we have mentioned; emphasis on the content areas; and new methods of assessing student progress, raising the system to a level of rigor, relevance, and producing results.

I am sure that you have many more ideas that could assist our

school systems and States to develop 21st-century skills or learning

partnerships. West Virginia students have already benefitted from

our involvement in the national partnership, and I would be glad

to entertain any of your questions with regard to the progress that

we have made in our State. Thank you very much.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Paine appears in the appendix.]

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you all very much. Senator Baucus’s

staff gave me this order: Senator Baucus, Senator Grassley, then

Senators Kerry, Stabenow, Salazar, Bunning, Rockefeller, Smith,

Lincoln, Snowe, and Bingaman. Five-minute rounds.

I am going to start out with Mr. Green. You mentioned the

amount that your company spends on college scholarships. Do you

ever feel like they are moving the goal posts on you as college tuition goes up so fast? In regard to that, are there any sort of tuition

guarantees from colleges that you ever try to get, or anything like

that, if you see that as a problem? I see it as a problem in my

State, as an example.

Mr. GREEN. Yes. I think you win this one person at a time. So,

yes, we move the goal posts because those investments we make

turn out human beings who can work at our companies, or for

other companies, or become good citizens, and I think it is important.

17

I think we have to think more creatively. I think that what we

have been doing now is not getting it done. I think that is why the

Business Roundtable is taking a series of initiatives.

That is why individual companies across the country are making

individual investments and partnering with educational institutions to try to determine what are the things we can do that get

the best value for money.

You made a comment this morning about, we spend enough

money. Think about the value we get out of it. But that is something that business can do that really helps the outcome.

Senator GRASSLEY. Yes.

Dr. Paine, I will preface what I was going to ask you with my

feeling that the types of innovations and achievements that are

needed for America to remain competitive in this global and competitive economy of the 21st century are going to require that we

challenge our best and brightest students to a greater extent than

we have so we get the full potential out of them.

I believe that West Virginia mandates services for gifted and talented students and provides funding. Particularly with the funding

to go with it, you need to be congratulated for that.

On the other hand, Virginia is the only State that currently requires regular classroom teachers to have course work in gifted

education. Do you believe that there is a need for greater training

of classroom teachers in the unique learning needs of gifted and

talented students?

Dr. PAINE. I most certainly do, Senator. As a matter of fact, we

will be incorporating within all of our pre-service education programs, we hope, in higher education, and have emphasized the

need as such, to develop teachers who can understand how to teach

with the rigor of an AP course or an International Baccalaureate

course.

Senator GRASSLEY. All right.

Governor Wise, in your testimony you state ‘‘Federal policy sets

a good bar to begin teaching but it does not ensure teachers are

effective in helping kids.’’

Do you think that we have perhaps gone too far in creating barriers to becoming a teacher instead of rewarding good teachers and

making it easier to replace ineffective ones?

Governor WISE. Well, of course, most of that is done at the State

level, Senator. Where we think it is important is to be able to get

high-performing teachers into low-performing schools.

That is, we know that there are about 2,000 schools that account

for about half the dropouts in this country, yet those are the areas

where it is toughest to get the highest-performing teachers in. This

committee has proposed legislation in the past, and Congress has

looked at legislation, to provide those incentives.

Indeed, another measure is by Senator Bingaman, who has been a leader in putting together legislation for a $2.5-billion comprehensive secondary school improvement fund that would target

Federal funds, in conjunction with State and local, to the lowestperforming schools so we can turn them around.

I might add, following up on something else you said, we are not

interested in simply throwing more money at a problem, because

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sive. What I am interested in doing is getting the reforms we need

and then the investment, strategic investment, that goes along

with it.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you.

My last question is to Mr. Taylor. You have testified about the

importance of quality in early childhood education. Since there are

many high-quality preschool programs run by Head Start agencies,

by schools generally, by private providers, by churches, and you

can go on and on, that seem to meet the diverse needs of families

of young children, would it not make sense for any further government initiative to build on these choices by setting standards and

providing resources directly to families rather than trying to start

from scratch and supplanting existing programs?

Mr. TAYLOR. Well, we certainly are not recommending supplanting existing programs. It is our position that we must invest

more rigorously in informal and formal providers. We know that

the majority of young children, poor young children, are in informal

settings. We work in partnership with many existing programs, as

you have mentioned.

The issue for us is, how do you begin to link the business community, the community college community, the traditional school

system, to really help improve the quality of those existing groups

that you are talking about.

Standards, on the one hand, are very important, but on the other

hand, we have to make sure that those environments are of high

quality and meeting the developmental needs, and look at children

as individual learners as opposed to creating or referring to the

group as one large body. Those are the real issues that I think are

there. But we certainly have to work in partnership with those existing organizations that you mentioned.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you.

Senator Kerry?

Senator KERRY. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I want to thank Senator Baucus, who is at a meeting with Senator Reid, but I really

appreciate you and him holding this hearing. I think it is a worthy

goal to get this committee focused on education, though our limits

are obvious with respect to tax policy, but that is an important way

to do something.

We have $49 billion currently being spent over a 5-year period

on higher education tax incentives. I think many of us feel that

money is not being spent as effectively as it might, and it can be

targeted more effectively.

I want to thank all of you for your testimony this morning. Governor, it is great to see you again. We appreciate Bill. Thank you

for being here and for sharing your experience. Patty, thank you

for teaching and for all you do.

Steve, we appreciate your leadership also. You had great credibility until you started praising Senator Rockefeller so effusively,

and then we all worried about you. [Laughter.]

I want to react a little bit. I am in my 23rd year here, and I have

heard this before. I remember the Carnegie Foundation reported

‘‘Nation at Risk.’’ I am getting to the point of kind of being tired

of hearing it, if you want to know the truth. How many years do

19

we have to hear about the trouble of attracting teachers to troubled

areas?

Governor, you just mentioned 2,000 schools. We all know this.

We have known this for years. They are either in the hard-pressed

rural areas or in the inner cities. That is where your schools are

that are in trouble, because we have an education system that is

based on property taxes. These people do not have the fundamental

ability. In most States in their formula, the money somehow does

not get down to the classroom.

I agree, we are spending a fair amount of money. We are. It is

not getting into the classroom. I can go into classrooms, and I have

been in them, because I spent a lot of time trying to understand

the problem.

I went out, and I would go into a Blue Ribbon school. I would

say, why is this school a Blue Ribbon school and, two blocks away,

you know, the Bartlett School over here is great, and the Driscoll

School over here is failing? Invariably, you would find leading indicators and very obvious reasons.

One, quite often, was bad relationships between the principal

and the teachers, and the school committee was not functioning.

There was an absence of leadership. Leadership, in every school,

makes the difference. If you have a strong principal who works effectively with the teachers and the teachers can weigh in and they

feel good about their jobs, that school tends to work.

Now, along came the charter school effort. We sort of played with

the idea within the system and outside the system, that we are

going to give people the ability to go out and do something differently. Some of them worked, some of them did not. We see the

same problem.

But I have to tell you something. Governor, you mentioned those

2,000 schools and resources. The whole theory of No Child Left Behind was, we were cutting a deal. The deal was, we were going to

raise the standards, raise the accountability, and have greater

transparency, but in exchange we were going to provide the resources so that when you identified a kid who needed help, you

could provide the help.

The remedial effort would be there, the intervention would be

there. There is not one of us on this committee who does not understand the difference it makes to have an adult intervene in the life

of a troubled kid.

We have Big Brothers, Big Sisters, Boys Clubs, Girls Clubs, all

kinds of things. But guess what? For the numbers of kids in it,

there are always 10 or 20 times the numbers of kids outside of it

who do not get it. This is not rocket science.

Truancy. Where has truancy gone? It is labor-intensive, but we

do not pay for it. Kids drop out of school. There are some schools

where principals cannot tell you if a kid is not there on any given

day, and the teacher cannot, in some places. What could they do

about it if they knew? They do not have the person power.

A lot of this does go to funding. I have walked into inner city

schools where you have kids teeming with teenaged hormones who

do not even have a full gym to be able to go in and play, where

they have half lockers, where they have a library that is barely

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open, where they do not have the technology still. And we are supposed to ask them to be excited about their education?

This is a national adult disgrace, and it is an absence of political

will that is doing this. We are losing 30, 40 percent of our teachers

within the first few years. Right, Patty?

Ms. MYERS. Yes.

Senator KERRY. We lose them. They go to school, they learn to

be a teacher, they come into the system and they are burnt out,

wasted by the experience because we do not have adequate mentoring, because the pay is lousy, because they cannot pay off their

loans, because there are not enough resources reaching the school.

This is not rocket science. It is a complete and total absence of

willpower. It is amazing to me, Patty, that so many of you do go

in and do what you do. Thank God you do it, and thank God there

are people who are willing to go teach for $40,000 a year and struggle with their family, to pay the bills and all the other costs you

have today.

We ought to be paying teachers more, starting salary in America,

and we ought to make sure those 2,000 schools have the resources

necessary. Instead, we are going exactly the opposite direction, Mr.

Chairman. We are cutting after-school programs, we are cutting

Head Start, we are cutting Medicaid. We are cutting all the things

that make a difference to our children.

In early childhood education, we all understand. Ninety-five percent of brain development is in the first 3 years. Kids who learn,

up to those first 8 years, are kids who will learn for a lifetime. But

we do not integrate it, as you said, Greg.

So, Mr. Chairman, I would like to see us give a tax holiday, complete and total. There should not be any Federal tax for people who

go teach in these tough places. We ought to get serious about providing the economic incentive.

We ought to get serious about providing—Head Start has never

been fully funded once in the full 7 years of its existence. We are

now $60 billion behind on the promise that was part of the deal

to help our kids.

So we can sit here, as we will, and you all will testify, as you

have. But we have to get about the business of being serious about

this. It takes rolling up the sleeves and combining accountability

with resources.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you, Senator.

Senator Stabenow?

Senator STABENOW. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First, I would just say ‘‘amen’’ to Senator Kerry. I think it is time

to get serious. I know each of you on the panel are serious, and we

appreciate your being here, and appreciate Senator Baucus calling

us together, because we know he is serious as well.

I want to just start by saying it is wonderful to see all of you.

Governor, it is great to see you in this capacity. Mr. Green, it is

wonderful to see you. Keep hiring people in Michigan. That is what

we want you to do.

Mr. GREEN. I am.

Senator STABENOW. Yes. And Mr. Taylor, representing a wonderful Michigan foundation. Of course, Ms. Myers. All of you, thank

you.

21

First, let me just say, in terms of political will, I am very proud

that the Budget Committee just reported out a budget that puts

education at the top of the list, and it is on the floor right now.

We reversed the cuts in programming that the President had proposed, and education is at the top of our investments in our country in this budget resolution.

The other thing we do is put forward a commitment to provide

health care for every child who does not have insurance so they are

prepared to go to school to be able to learn. If we can do those two

things in this budget resolution and beyond and do the serious

work in this committee on SCHIP, I think we will have made a

major commitment.

A comment and a question, further. The Chairman raised, I

think, a very, very important issue when he talked about Rip Van

Winkle and what we see in the schools. I am appalled when I walk

in and see that the schools that my children, not too long ago, graduated from, look dangerously like when I went to school, and before.

When we are walking around with these Palm Pilots and everything else, we do not have a laptop on every child’s desk. We do

not have a computer. We do not have a PC for every child in every

school. Yet, there is not one job they are going to walk into that

does not have a computer and require significant knowledge. The

next textbook is on the Internet.

I would argue that it does take resources. Accountability, but it

does take resources. You have to have dollars to buy what is needed, and that is a critical issue, I think, for us. We invest in things

that we think are important as adults, and I think—I hope—we are

going to take all of your words seriously.

A question as it relates to how we proceed. There are a lot of

things that we could talk about that we are all very interested in.

But in Michigan now, we are trying something new with early colleges, or middle colleges, as they are called. The Kellogg Foundation is significantly investing in that, and I want to thank you very

much.

But it is the idea of looking at young people being able to go

through high school, and add a year, basically, and be able to get

college credit, or possibly an associate’s degree. We are focusing on

six new early colleges in Michigan that are focusing on areas of

great need, health care providers being one, health care technicians, and those kinds of things.

I am wondering if any of you have experience related to this. We

have heard a lot of interest, not only in terms of bringing more

qualified people into the marketplace and areas where we need to

fill jobs, but also related to dropout prevention and other kinds of

strategies using the middle college approach as part of that strategy. I am wondering if any of the panelists could speak to that.

Mr. TAYLOR. If I could, I would love to chime in.

Senator STABENOW. Yes, Mr. Taylor.

Mr. TAYLOR. On the early college issue—one of the things we

found that has to be different about the existing school system is

that we really cannot look at the time students are in their seats

or at their desks as a measurement for advancement for young

children.

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We need to think about much more experiential, hands-on opportunities, partnerships and mentorships, and apprenticeships in the

business community. I think you have to start with youth/choice/

voice. What are the interests that drive young people?

Get them motivated and engaged, then build the necessary, specific, universal, and motivational skills that they need to be successful in. That is what that community college program was really

about, an early college program.

It was trying to look at the K–12 system to make sure at the

12th-grade year that there was opportunity for young people to

make that bridge to college or into the world of work. That is the

strategy that has been successful. We need to deepen it and broaden our commitment to that work.

If I could, while I have the floor, I would also say that I think

it is very important for the same resources invested at the 12thgrade year to also be invested at the early end.

We know that the early end of the spectrum is a much better investment in terms of lifelong learning for young children. That is

one of the ways we could push the system to be more responsive

to the individual learning needs of children.

Senator STABENOW. Thank you.

Yes?

Dr. KARAS. Mr. Chairman, Senator Stabenow, we also look at,

the impact would really be for providing an opportunity for students to have that access to college and see what an opportunity

can be for them. Many students do not even realize that college is

an opportunity and that it is available to them.

For example, at Flathead Valley Community College we often

start with students in 3rd grade, bringing them on campus and

doing something called Seussville University, where they get to

learn math and reading all under the guise of Dr. Seuss while they

are there.

We have opportunities for students through middle school and

high school to always be coming to a college campus so they learn

that it is a safe, friendly environment where they might want to

continue to go to school. And providing opportunities for them in

any way to learn that education is important and fun, and lifelong,

is something that this would help.

Senator STABENOW. Thank you.

Senator GRASSLEY. Go ahead.

Senator STABENOW. Yes. Governor? I am sorry. I know we are

out of time, but if it is all right, Mr. Chairman.

Senator GRASSLEY. Go ahead.

Governor WISE. If I could chime in.

Senator STABENOW. Thank you.

Governor?

Governor WISE. Senator, what you illustrated, and what the others have, is the importance of looking at education as a continuum,

and also a personalized learning experience.

Some young people are ready to go ahead to this kind of experience. Your State is doing this. North Carolina has had success in

it, and a number of other States. What you are doing is personalizing the learning experience for each child, which we believe is incredibly important.

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It also follows up something you passed in the Perkins Act,

which is a personal graduation plan for each student, starting in

the 7th grade, to maximize their opportunities and meet to show

their strengths, and also where they need some assistance.

Senator STABENOW. Thank you.

Senator GRASSLEY. Senator Salazar?

Senator SALAZAR. Thank you very much, Chairman Grassley and

Chairman Baucus, for focusing on this very important issue.

I am going to ask a question that I would like each of the panelists to respond to for 30 seconds, since we have six panelists here.

The question is about systemic change around three areas: (1) financing; (2) the length of the school day; and (3) early childhood

education.

Let me preface my question in this way. First of all, in terms of

financing, I associate myself with the eloquent remarks of Senator

Kerry. The fact is, in places in rural America, we end up spending

probably half as much on the education of a child as we do in

urban areas.

I come from the fourth-poorest county in the United States of

America. I know we spend half as much money there as we do in

other school districts in Colorado, places like Aspen and Cherry

Creek, just because of the fact that our school finance system is

based on a property tax system, so the educational opportunity that

you end up getting in my State is very dependent on the accident

of the amount of wealth within the district that you happen to

come from.

So, what kind of changes ought we be looking at in terms of finance that could be driven by our limited jurisdiction in our system

of federalism?

Second, school day. I do not know how many times I have gone

to schools where I see people out on the streets at 3 o’clock, or 2:30

now in some places, 1 p.m. in other places. Yet, the day of a parent

is not the day of a school.

So what do we do to deal with the reality that we have both parents working and you have latch key kids and all the problems that

come with that end of the day, from a law enforcement perspective

of an attorney general?

I know that the times when we have our kids getting into the

greatest amount of problems are between the hours of 3 and 7 in

the afternoon. We have to do something in that area.

Third, early childhood education. Everybody talks about it. You

have heard the statistics here. How do we systematically change

our system so we do more for early childhood? Do we eliminate the

12th grade, for example, and put those resources that we now are

using in 12th grade into early childhood?

So, those three questions. Governor Wise, I will start with you.

You have 30 seconds each, all across.

Governor WISE. Senator, we are off to the races. In school financing, you are absolutely correct. Most States have had to, in some

way, move away from the property tax. The Federal role has been

to be strategic.

I might point out a recent Columbia Teacher’s College survey or

study shows that making certain investments in education in each

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lion of increased revenues to the Federal coffers, as well as declining social costs. So, there is a good return on investment.

Second, the school day needs to be longer. In terms of industrial

nations, we have one of the lowest number of days in school. Successful models, whether it is KIP (Knowledge Industry Partnership), whether it is other public school models, have a longer day.

They have Saturdays. They have extended orientation sessions for

9th-graders during the summer. I mean, there are a number of successful models, but you need more time in quality education.

Third, early childhood question. I represent a group that supports high schools. We totally support early childhood education because you have to have a strong foundation. But what we urge you

to look at is a continuum, because you can build the foundation of

my house, but I am a klutz as a carpenter and I am not going to

be able to finish it on my own.

The student is going to need those continued supports, such as,

some of you have supported the Striving Readers Initiative, recognizing that 70 percent of our 8th-graders do not read at grade level.

We need to keep investing.

Senator SALAZAR. Thank you very much, Governor.

Jane?

Governor WISE. I almost got it.

Dr. KARAS. Mr. Chairman, Senator Salazar, in terms of finance,

especially addressing the disparities—and I will speak mostly to

the higher education level—students who do not have the resources

to attend higher education, and providing them some opportunities

that would allow them to do that.

The length of a school day, certainly it could be longer. We partner with many of our elementary and secondary schools to help

them provide programs for students to continue their education

throughout the school day and to a longer period.

And early childhood education, I would agree with Governor

Wise, creating that continuum of seamless education for individuals from early childhood through higher education is critical so

that students can seamlessly move through a higher education system because the return on investment for the Nation is unparalleled.

Senator SALAZAR. Mr. Green?

Mr. GREEN. Senator, I think all those initiatives are important

in this sense: we are losing too many people making the trip. We

have to get them in the hands of people like Dr. Karas, to make

great, productive citizens out of them.

I think all the initiatives that help us move that along the process, to get us in the hands of the higher education system, and

hopefully with less remediation than is required today, is a good

thing for our country and a good thing for these individuals.

Senator SALAZAR. Mr. Taylor?

Mr. TAYLOR. I would differ from my colleagues, feeling that reducing the 12th-grade year to a half-day would be one way to reinvest resources for the early education side of the continuum.

We need to have partnerships with business and partnerships

with community colleges to treat individual young persons based

on their strengths in terms of their learning styles. Many young

people are ready to make that next step, either to the world of

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work or to college. We need to honor that sooner in their school experience.

Let us not just do more of what we have done in the K–12 system, but look at bringing in 3- and 4-year-olds in a way that is developmentally appropriate, and look at changing the system to

meet their individual learning needs.

Senator SALAZAR. Thank you very much. My time has expired.

So, Patty and Steve, I would appreciate you communicating with

my office on my questions.

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you.

Senator Bunning?

Senator BUNNING. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I have heard a lot of suggestions today about the student, about

what we can do. My gut feeling is that, unless you can convince

the child, the student, and quote the statistics that Congressman

Wise/Governor Wise has expounded, clearly, we cannot convince

that student of the worth of a college education or advancing

through 12 years and then going on to a higher education, because

of the fact that a lot of parents are not able to do that. They were

not grounded in the fact of the advantage of going on through higher education.

So I am going to pose a question to you all. Anyone on the panel

can respond. There is a general sense that more Americans are

lacking the skills to compete globally than in the past. Why is this?

Is the system of education we used in the past no longer effective? Our system needs to change. Are we being too pessimistic

about the current state of the education system?

Governor WISE. I would answer that and simply say that I think

that you are exactly right, Senator. I think we have an ambition

gap that exists among our students. Having been overseas this

summer and examined an education system in China, those children understand what it means to connect education to success in

life.

I think, perhaps, with our affluence in our country, perhaps we

have lost that edge. How do we regain that? I think it is absolutely

critical that we try to engage our kids where they are. They are

digital natives.

It is all the more important, I think, for us to begin to focus our

efforts on a relevant education based on the partners that we partner with: the Apples, the Dells, the Intels, the Microsofts, the National Education Association, the American Federation of Teachers,

and the Partnership for 21st Century Learning.

They tell us that learning needs to be active, engaging, and that

we need to raise our standards and our expectations to lofty levels.

We need to expect all of our students, and their parents, to support

world-class learning in our public schools.

Senator BUNNING. Somehow we have gotten off on the fact that

it is all right not to go on to college. I think our community colleges

have picked up a lot of that slack. But the fact of the matter is,

it is more important to be good at basketball, baseball, hockey, or

whatever the heck high school sport that you are involved with.

I can tell you, with 35 grand kids, we set a pretty high standard

as far as college is concerned and have tried to go over exactly

what it means if you do not, if you do not make it through college

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what you are looking at as far as earnings, as far as life expectancy

in the job market, and things like that.

Somewhere along the line in education, somewhere along the line

in K–8 or K–6, we have to emphasize that fact, and we are not

doing it. Now, I want to know why we are not doing it. Anyone?

Bob?

Governor WISE. Senator, if I could quickly echo, 8, 13, and 25. It is $8 an hour that you are going to make if you drop out of high

school, if you work. Your chances of employment are much less. It

is $13 if you finish high school and do not go on any further, and

$25 if you get a 4-year degree. If I were in a high school today, that

is the speech I would give.

Senator BUNNING. Can that not be done at an early age so that

we can get those students?

Governor WISE. We certainly need to. That is why I think the

more we visit high schools—I used to hold up at that time, a little

earlier time, a $5 bill, $9, and then $15 to reflect that.

In terms of, why is it not being done? I graduated from high

school 40 years ago, and only 52 percent of the American public

graduated then and our economy was humming along. Today, 90

percent of the fastest-growing jobs in our economy require postsecondary education. Indeed, a little over 80 percent of jobs currently held require post-secondary. It is a totally new situation we

are in, and we have not caught up to it.

Senator BUNNING. Last, but not least, we have heard of the dropout rates. Would it help, or could it help, if we moved the ability

that you must attend, or is that blase ́? In other words, if you require people to go to school until they are 18 years old, that does

nothing to incentivize the fact that they may?

Governor WISE. It may make a difference. But what I would prefer to do is, even with that requirement, the important thing is to

have the classroom and the structure such that it is an engaging

place.

With a personal graduation plan, whether we are tailoring a

child and putting them in—a 9th-grader who cannot read is going

to need special reading intervention, so we put them there.

The 11th-grader who is ready to go on to early college, we put

them in the community college. But you are working with each

child, in each child’s situation. I think that is the long-term answer

to making sure they stay in school.

Senator BUNNING. It is amazing I ever got through, and I did not

have anybody to work with except myself.

Governor WISE. Yes, sir. But once again, unfortunately, the numbers are growing such that, in the days before, a lot of kids did not

have to make it through and they could do quite well. Today, that

is impossible.

Senator BUNNING. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Senator GRASSLEY. Senator Lincoln?

Senator LINCOLN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to say

how much I appreciate Chairman Baucus and Senator Grassley

really making this discussion a priority for us after our hearing in

December.

I have always been enthusiastic about education. I do not know

why. I do not know if it was because I had such wonderful teachVerDate 11-MAY-2000 15:08 Jul 16, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 42659.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1
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ers. I do not know if it is, now that I am a parent, realizing how

critically important it is to the future of my children, and the role

that my children will play in not only my life, but really the fabric

of this country.

I realize that it is an issue that we far too often, as Senator

Kerry very passionately mentioned, we forget about, we do not get

it, or we do not put the kind of emphasis behind education in this

country that we need to. I appreciate the will of this committee to

be moving forward on that.

I got so excited that, at my last break, I went home to Arkansas

and set up a series of about eight meetings across our State to talk

about education. I told my staff, I am not going to talk about all

of the different things I usually do when I go home. I am just going

to focus this entire week on education.

People came out of the woodwork. We included an invitation to

business, to community leaders, obviously to our teachers, administrators, parents. People were phenomenal in their excitement of

what we could do. I thought they were just going to be angry about

No Child Left Behind. They were anxious, they were frustrated,

but, more importantly, they wanted to see us get it right.

They talked excitedly about what No Child Left Behind had

done. It had pushed them to levels where they felt like they were

really trying hard to do their very best. They said, do not lower

your expectations, but just give us goals that are achievable. Help

us to measure growth and not some arbitrary idea out there of

what somebody is supposed to be doing at an 8th-grade level, because not every piece of raw material we get into our schools is

going to produce 100-percent pure product, because we do not get

100-percent pure raw material.

So, we have a real obligation, I think, at this juncture for us to

infuse the enthusiasm and the devotion, as well as the resources,

to doing something about education in this country. We had a bipartisan caucus when we started this session. We all went in there

together to talk about how important it was to work in a bipartisan

way.

One of our colleagues stood up and said, you know, he had

learned from his wife and his wife’s reaction to one of their children who seemed to be a little bit anxious and troubled at times,

that love is not an emotion, it is an act of will.

Senator Kerry mentioned that if we are going to get it right on

education, it needs to be an act of will in this country, and it

should be an act of will because we love our children and we love

our country and all that can come from that.

We have a great opportunity, and I hope that we will see it come

forward out of this committee and the tools we can help provide

there. We know that we have to ensure that our existing education

tax incentives are working. We are looking to you all, and many

others, to help us make sure of that. We are looking for the outside-the-box ideas that can make other things happen.

We want to make sure that the tools we have in place are accessible and meaningful for our low-income students and their families, especially in rural areas. I know that inner city areas have difficulties too, but I concentrate on the rural areas because that is

where I grew up, in one of those poor counties in rural America.

28

We know you all have given us great testimony and good food for

thought. There is much more that we can do. I am very interested

in what private industry can do. Mr. Green, we are so grateful for

your input there, as well as what private industry, through their

foundations and nonprofits, can do.

We have a great example in Arkansas of private support in my

home State. In El Dorado, a community in the southern part of our

State of about 20,000, a population that has been diminishing,

there we have in our local school systems, now, a program that

they boast of called the El Dorado Promise.

It guarantees all local high school graduates will be able to go to college. The program was created through a $50-million gift from

a local business, Murphy Oil Company, which has been a longstanding Arkansas company.

To be eligible for the program students have to attend the local

school for at least 4 years, and the annual scholarship is limited

to the highest yearly rate that is charged by an Arkansas public

university.

Most importantly, what it does is provide an incentive for these

families and for these children to know that, if they work hard, if

they get to that point, if they are part of that school system, they

are going to be able to go to college regardless—regardless.

Therefore, you are seeing this influx of people into the community, you are seeing students and parents alike who are enthusiastic about how they can invest in their local school and make a

difference for their students and for their children. It is an investment.

Claiborne Deming, who is the president and CEO of Murphy Oil,

said that the decision to start this program was the easiest decision

the board of directors made during their December meeting because they understood that the investment they were making was

in human capital. So, we are grateful for that, but we are grateful

also for the opportunities that we have as a committee. I hope we

will continue to work towards that.

Just two quick things. Mr. Green, if you have any comments

about how we can better serve as a catalyst of the private sector,

where we should focus our resources. Then one last thing to Governor Wise. The tax code. We know it is an effective place, and that

is much of what we have the jurisdiction over.

Is it better to address that through teacher tax credits for being

employed in the needy schools or should we be looking at, maybe

some people may think it is a better bang for our buck for loan forgiveness programs, housing subsidies, and other ways that we

could encourage? Those are two questions. I am excited about the

issue, Mr. Chairman, so bear with me.

Senator GRASSLEY. Just do not forget, we have a vote.

Senator LINCOLN. I know we have a vote. I know. But the discussion, and hopefully our work, will not end here today, because early

education is an absolute passion of mine. I have just been through

it with my own children and now, as they move into middle school,

I see the benefit of the investment we made in early education.

Senator GRASSLEY. Before they answer, let me ask who is speaking for Senator Baucus? I assume I am supposed to adjourn the

meeting when we are done here? All right. So when you answer her

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two questions, then we will stop and go vote. We have three votes

on the floor, starting just about now.

Mr. GREEN. All right. Just quickly, I think, first of all, it is absolutely inspired, this committee, given its charter, coming at this

education issue as it is. I think there is a lot of momentum around

this right now. I think there is a period of denial in some cases.

I think people are starting to get on board.

I think business recognizes it needs to do its part. Business is

looking for great raw material. We will take the people, we will

make the investments, we will train them, and we will build competitive workforces, so all the efforts of the people on the panel

here are just essential to providing us with the raw material which

then we can use to make great, productive people and great human

beings.

Governor WISE. In terms of the tax code, I would almost look at,

particularly in the hardest-hit areas, as this committee has set up

economic empowerment zones, is there an educational empowerment or opportunity zone in which you could look at tax codes for

teachers in low-performing schools. I do believe salary is an issue.

There is a point at which that cannot be ducked.

Also, a means to improve retention, that is, making sure that

that new teacher, rather than half of them leaving the classroom

in the first 5 years, that new teacher gets the backup skills that

he or she needs, the mentoring in those schools, to make them a

highly qualified teacher. Incidentally, I do think that this committee is vitally involved in this because this is as much an education and moral imperative as it is an economic imperative.

Senator LINCOLN. Absolutely.

Governor WISE. This is Sputnik, only it is a silent Sputnik. People do not fully appreciate the economic crisis we have with changing demographics. Totally new work skills are now required in the

workplace, plus the fact that we are not graduating but one-third

of our students ready for the modern workplace.

Senator LINCOLN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to

add, I know Ms. Myers has probably seen this as well, but I had

six or seven consistent issues that were brought up in these series

of eight meetings that I had, but one of the most consistent was

a brick wall that we are going to hit with the teacher shortage because we are just not turning teachers out.

There are certainly quality issues that we should deal with, but

there is no doubt that just not having teachers in the classroom is

going to be a huge problem. I know in Arkansas, we definitely see

a brick wall ahead of us in terms of that shortage.

Senator GRASSLEY. For Senator Baucus and me, we thank you

very much for starting dialogue on this subject before this committee. You folks may not be in the same place you now are as we

continue this dialogue, but Senator Baucus has made it very clear

that we intend to move ahead with some incentives to improve the

opportunity for education. We thank you all for your contribution

to it.

The hearing is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 11:36 a.m., the hearing was concluded.]

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