1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on the 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plans for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9 :0 2 to 7 : 01 p.m. 12



### Tues day, July 29 , 201 4 13

14

15

16



### ROOM B 17


### EPA Region 8 Building 18



### 1595 Wynkoop Street 19



### Denver, Colorado 80202 20

21

22

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### EPA Panel A: 1



### ELAYANA S UTIN 2

3



### LAURA FERRIS 4

5



### DENISE MULHOLLAND , Office of Atmospheric 6


### Programs, Washington, D.C. 7

8



### EPA Panel B: 9



### CARL DAILY , Director of the Air Program 10


### EPA Region 8, Denver, Colorado 11



### AMANDA CURRYBROWN 12



### RYAN SIMMS 13

14



### EPA Panel C: 15



### ELAYANA SUTIN 16



### DENISE MULHOLLAND , Of fice of Atmospheric 17


### Programs, Washington, D.C. 18


### DIERDRA ROTHERY, Air Program, Region 8, Colorado 19

20

21

22

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### E LIAS BURGOS , Colorado Resident 5 3



### CRAIG WILLIAMS , Environment Colorado 21 4



### BRUCE FERGUSON , Catskill Citizens for Safe 5



### En ergy 23 6



### DAVE BUFALO , Colorado Resident 28 7



### ROBERT JONES , Sierra Club 32 8



### JEFF BERGMAN , OPlata Electric 3 7 9



### BILL D VORAK, Colorado Resident 41 10



### BRIAN DEPEW , Center for Rural Affairs 46 11



### MILDRED GRIFFIN , Colorado Resident 51 12



### ROBERT HARVEY , Colorado Resident 52 13



### JOHNNY BEAR CUB STIFFAR M, Tribal Member 5 7 14



### NELSON BOCK , Colorado Resident 62 15



### BRANDON CHESHIRE , Center of the Solar, Arizona 6 6 16



### NANCY LAPLACCA , Colorado Resident 72 17



### SEAN LAMB , Colorado Resident 77 18



### ANNA G I OVINETTO , Renewable Energy Systems 80 19



### JOHN SHULTZ AB ARGER , EDF Renewable Energy 85 20



### ALAN APT , Colorado Resident 90 21



### FRANK SWAYNE , Conservation Colorado 96 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### RYAN VAN WEST , Western Colorado Congress 100 3



### JULIE M OIL , Nurse 105 4



### KIERRA HATIN , Colorado Resident 110 5



### JASON SMALL , Boilermakers Local 11 113 6



### CHRIS FLANNIGAN , Renew Missouri 119 7



### SARAH PROBST, Interless 123 8



### DEB THER I A ULT , Wyoming Resident 128 9



### MICHAEL BOWMAN , Colorado Resident 131 10



### MARK BROWN , President of Board of EEBC 135 11



### SHANON ANDERSON , Powder R iver Basin Council 139 12



### MARY FRONTCZAK , Peabody Energy 142 13



### WES WILSON , Colorado Resident 148 14



### TIM G AUDETTE , Small Business Majority 152 15



### CHRISTINA GOSNEL L , Clean Energy Action 1 58 16



### MARINA WEBBER , Colorado Resident 1 62 17



### CHILDREN SING A SONG , Colorado Resident 1 63 18



### LAURIE DAMERON , Colorado Resident 164 19



### KEN CONNELL , Colorado Resident 1 68 20



### RHONDA L OPEZ , Colorado Resident 173 21



### EDWARD LEAVER , Colorado Resident 177 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### CYNTHIA LINTON , Chicago, Illinois 181 3



### BARBARA HILDEBRAND , Colorado Resident 1 84 4



### MILLICENT YOUNG , Colorado Resident 1 87 5



### MAXWELL BOYKOFF , University of Colorado Prof. 190 6



### SESSION B 7



### CARL DAIL Y, EPA 1 95 8



### DAWN HENDRY , Beekeeper 201 9



### LEE RAYBURN , Colorado Resident 203 10



### HUNTER LOVINS , National Capitalism Solutions 207 11



### CYNTHIA SCHMIDT , Colorado Resident 211 12



### PHILLIP WARD , Student, Regis University 215 13



### DAVID MARTEN JUS TICE , Colorado Resident 219 14



### NICK KERWIN , Co

- owner Solar Company 22 5 15



### STACEY TELLINGH U ISEN , Western Resource Advoc. 227 16



### LARRY GRIM , Presbyterian Minister 233 17



### LIBBY CHOMEO , Loreto Wrok Network 236 18



### JACKIE PATTERSON , Colorado Resident 242 19



### HARV TEITELBAUM , Colorado Resident 248 20



### CHRIS HOFFMAN , Colorado Resident 252 21



### JOHN GALE , Colorado Resident 256 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### SE SSION B (continued) 3



### DR. ROBERT MOSS , Lutheran Advocacy Ministry 260 4



### PETE MAYSMITH , Conservation Colorado 26 4 5



### REBECCA CANTWELL , COSEA 269 6



### THOMAS PIERCE , Sierra Club 274 7



### KIM TURRELL , American Lung Association, CO 279 8



### ELISE JONES , Boulder County Commissioner 283 9



### KURT HUBER , Exec. Director. Am Lung Assn 28 8 10



### DEX SLOAN , Arch Coal, Inc. 290 11



### ELIZABETH HOUSE , Citizens Climate Lobby 295 12



### CHRIS STANLEY , American Lung Assn, CO 299 13



### GERARD BROWN , Colorado Resident 301 14



### LU CINDA SCHNELLER , Moms Knows Best, CO 304 15



### DEBRA SHANAMAN , Platt River Power Authority 308 16



### TERESA PATERRY , Colorado Resident 313 17



### IVOR DOUGLAS , American Thoracic Society 317 18



### REBECCA COHEN , Colorado Resident 322 19



### TAYLOR SMITH , Houston, Texas 325 20



### A LYSSA EVANS, Colorado Resident 329 21



### KATRINA KELLER , Colorado Resident 331 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### SESSION B (continued) 3



### AMY KESSLER , Colorado Resident 333 4



### ASHLEY EDINGER , Colorado Resident 335 5



### D OM HERRERA , Colorado Resident 339 6



### NICK STOOBLER , Colorado Resident 341 7



### RACHEL GARFINKLE , Colorado Resident 345 8



### KYLE CORONADO , Colorado Resident 348 9



### SARAH BLANCHFIELD , Colorado Resident 350 10



### SESSION C 11



### NATASHA LA NN ERD , Colorado Resident 356 12



### MATTHEW FLOERKE , Colorado Resident 368 13



### ANITA HARTMAN , Colorado Resident 372 14



### SUSAN JACOBSON , Colorado Resident 375 15



### PADDY McCLELLAND , Colorado Resident 380 16



### RONALD LARSON , Colorado Resident 384 17



### LOLA WILCOX , Colorado Resident 387 18



### DUSTIN CHAVEZ

- DAVIS , Sierra Club 391 19



### ISAAC RIVERA , Colorado Resident 395 20



### SUSAN PERMUT , Colorado Resident 400 21



### MITTY APONTAE , Colorado Resident 402 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### SESSION C (continued) 3



### CHRIS APPLEGATE , Colorado Resident 402 4



### JAMES CODY , Colorado Resident 4 09 5



### WILLIAM OWENS , Colorado Resident 413 6



### ANGELA STEPHENS , Colorado Moms Knows Best 418 7



### MEGAN COWLEY , Colorado Resident 421 8



### SPENCER CARNES , Colorado Resident 425 9



### FABIAN LAGUNA , Colorado Resident 428 10



### LES LIE GLUSTROM , Colorado Resident 432 11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1



### M S

. VIDADICH : Good morning
, my name is 2


### Cally Vidadich. I'm the acting assistant 3


### regional administra tor here in Region 8 and I'm 4


### here to welcome you to the public hearing on the 5



### Clean Power Plan Proposal. 6



### Before we put pen to paper on our clean 7



### power plan pr oposal we benefitted from 8


### unprecedented outreach. We held 11 public 9


### listening sessions nationwide including one here 10


### in Denver. We heard from thousands of people 11



### throu gh phone calls, e

- mails, meetings and more. 12


### What we heard helped shape the guiding 13


### principals of our proposal. We heard that 14


### flexibility is key. So we maximized choices for 15


### states that they could make decisions for 16



### themselves. We heard that states coul d cut 17


### pollution costs effectively by looking at the 18


### energy system as a whole, so we built that in. 19


### We heard that the power sector is 20


### interconnected and not bound by state lines. So 21


### we allowed states to work together or go it 22

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### alone; whatever works best f or them. 1


### The public comment period is incredibly 2



### valuable to us. Since June 2nd we've been laser 3



### focused on our second phase of engagement. We've 4


### met with 60 different groups in just the first 25 5


### business days after the proposal came out. 6



### We've receiv ed more than 300,000 comment s so far 7



### and expect many more. 8



### We want no stone unturned and no good 9


### idea off the table. That's why we're so excited 10


### today to kick off this public hearing of which 11


### this is one of four occurring this week across 12



### the nation. Th e other three are in Washington, 13


### Atlanta, and Pittsburgh. 14



### We expect great feedback at these 15


### sessions. They're critical to an opportunity for 16


### public people

-- for people to speak to the 17


### government directly. But let me also make clear 18



### any comment we rece ive before October 16th, no 19


### matter how we get it will be equally accepted and 20


### analyzed, not just the things that we hear over 21



### the next two days here. 22

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### There are no special comments or special 1


### groups. We look at everything carefully and EPA 2



### does the work t o shape that

-- with the 3


### information we get we'll shape that into a rule 4



### that we can all be proud of. 5


### We know the purpose of this rule couldn't 6


### be more important. That's why we're putting so 7


### much importance on process in the comments we're 8


### getting here a nd going

-- and we believe that 9


### they're going to help us get the rule right. 10



### So, welcome everyone today. Elayana 11


### Sutin, who is the chair for this particular 12


### public hearing

-- we have another one going on 13



### across the hall

-- has some comments to make as 14



### t he chair. 15



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Cally. 16


### Good morning, everyone. My name is 17


### Elayana Sutin as Cally mentioned, and I am a 18


### chair of today's public hearing. Thank you for 19


### coming today. 20


### Joining me on the panel today are Denise 21



### Mulholland from our Offic e of Atmospheric 22

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### Programs in Washington, and Laura Farris who is 1


### from our Air Program here in Region 8. 2


### We are here today to listen to your 3



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 4


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 5



### of these proposed rules on June 2, 2014. 6



### Power plants are the largest source of 7


### carbon pollution in the United States, accounting 8



### for roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse 9



### emissions. 10


### The first rule is EPA's proposed clean 11


### power plan for existing power plants. Thi s 12


### proposal consists of two main parts, state

13


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 14


### power plants and guidelines to help states 15


### develop their plans for meeting their goals. 16


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 17


### determining how to meet their goal s. States will 18


### choose what goes into their plans and show how 19


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 20


### their goals by 2030. 21


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 22

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### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 1



### and reconstructed power plants. This rule will 2


### set emission limits for two groups of power 3


### plants, those that make physical or operational 4


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 5


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 6



### that replace components to such an extent that 7



### the new compon ents exceed 50 percent of the 8


### capital costs of an entirely new comparable 9


### facility. 10


### If you would like more detail on either 11



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 12


### available near the registration desk. 13


### Today's hearing is one of four public 14



### hearin gs across the country this week on the two 15


### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 16


### in each of the hearings and I would like to thank 17


### you for taking time out of your day to join us 18



### and share your comments. 19


### We have a lot of people signed up to 20



### spea k today and we want to hear from all of them. 21


### So before we get started I would like to go 22

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### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 1


### that will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 2


### First, please be sure you have checked in 3


### at the registration des k, even if you are not 4


### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 5


### speak online or by phone and haven't told us that 6



### you're here, please step out to the registration 7



### desk and let the EPA staff there know that you've 8



### arrived. 9


### Second, if you are a sp eaker, you were 10


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 11



### or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 12


### room? If not, this is a good time to switch. 13


### If you are not speaking this morning and 14



### the room is getting crowded, we have two 15



### additional ro oms set up where you can watch the 16


### hearing on video. Our staff at the registration 17


### desk will direct you to one of those rooms. 18


### All right. Here's how today's hearing 19


### will work. I will call speakers up in pairs, 20


### when your name is called, please come to t he 21


### podiums at the front of the room and have a seat. 22

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### When I call you to speak, please state your name, 1


### and spell it for the court reporter. 2



### Your comments will be transcribed and 3



### included in the record of comments on the 4


### proposed rule. Each speaker will have five 5


### minutes to give comments. We have a light to 6


### help you know how much time you have left to 7


### speak. When the light turns from green to 8


### yellow, that means you have one minute remaining. 9


### When it turns red, that's a signal to wrap up 10


### your testimony. The light will flash red and 11


### beep when you have spoken for five minutes and 12


### it's time to stop. 13


### When you are finished speaking, please 14


### remain at the podium until the person next to you 15


### has completed his or her testimony. 16


### We are here to listen to you t oday. 17


### However a panel member may be asking clarifying 18


### questions on your comments. 19


### I will then call up the next pair of 20



### speakers and so on. 21


### If you have brought a written copy of 22

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### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 1


### the registration desk bef ore you leave today. 2



### Because of the large number of people who 3


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 4


### everyone, we are going to have to strictly 5



### enforce this five

- minute limit. 6


### If you have additional comments you would 7


### like to make, you can sub mit them in writing. 8



### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 9



### much consideration to comments we receive in 10


### writing as we do to comments we receive a public 11


### hearings like this one. 12


### So if you have more than you would like 13


### to say, please submit it. Your c omments will be 14



### received. 15


### There is still plenty of time to get 16



### written comments in and there are comment cards 17


### available at the registration desk. Comments 18


### must be received by October 16, 2014. We will 19


### put any written comments submitted today into the 20


### official docket for the proposed rule. 21


### Instructions for submitting written comments in 22

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### other ways are available at the materials desk, 1


### the registration desk. 2


### We are scheduled to go until 8 p.m. 3


### tonight. We will take short breaks throughout 4



### the day as ne eded. If you have questions during 5


### the day, please see the staff at the registration 6


### desk and someone will try and help you. 7


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 8



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 9


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 10



### views in the audience and we want to hear from 11


### all of you. So we can do that, and to be fair to 12


### everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly, 13


### even applause can slow things down and we want to 14


### hear from everyone who is signed up to speak. In 15


### the spirit o f good manners and good democracy, we 16


### ask that everyone is respectful. 17



### We are here to listen to each other even 18


### those we disagree with. 19


### Thank you, again, for taking the time 20



### today to share your comments on EPA's proposed 21



### rule. We'll get started. Thank s. 22

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### SESSION A 1


### MS. SUTIN: All right. Our first two 2


### speaker, Elias Burgos and Craig Williams. 3


### Okay. If you will both stand, and Mr. 4


### Burgos if you would like to go first. 5


### MR. BURGOS: Good morning. I'm Dr. Elias 6



### Burgos, E

- l

- i

- a

- s B

- u

- r

- g

- o

- s. I am facul ty at 7


### Bridges University, I'm also member of the 8


### Angelica Lutheran Church in America and a part of 9



### the Creation Care Ministries. But I am here as a 10



### citizen of Denver and a citizen of Colorado. And 11


### I'm here to say that we have the moral obligation 12



### to prot ect our children and future generations 13


### from the impacts of climate change by addressing 14


### the single largest source of carbon pollution in 15


### our country, power plants. Drawing on the 16


### strength and ingenuity of American innovation the 17



### EPA's green power plant h elps drive investment in 18


### energy efficiency and clean energy that would 19



### power the 21st century. 20


### The clean power plant means we will never 21


### have to choose between healthy communities and a 22

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### healthy economy. America will benefit from 1


### energy innovation with lo wered energy cost, more 2


### diversified and safer energy supplies and cleaner 3



### energy. 4


### This energy innovation will build new 5


### companies, create jobs, and produce clean energy. 6


### The climate plan is an ambitious plan that would 7


### cut current pollution by 30 percent from our 8


### power plants, fighting climate change, and 9


### benefitting public health. 10



### The EPA rule on power plants allows 11


### states the flexibility to create their own best 12


### plan of action. 13


### Fossil fuel companies will have to pay 14


### for their pollution. But now we h ave a market

15


### based approach to develop the most effective and 16


### efficient technology to reduce carbon pollution. 17


### Every year our nation's power plants are 18


### responsible for nearly 45 percent of carbon 19


### pollution in the United States which fuel climate 20



### change, tr igger more asthma attacks and 21


### respiratory disease, worsens air quality and 22

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### contribute to more frequent, more destructive, 1



### more costly, and more deadly extreme weather 2



### events. 3


### We already limit our soot and all the 4


### dangerous pollutants, but until now power plants 5


### have been free to dump unlimited amounts of 6


### carbon pollution into the air. The EPA's clean 7



### power plan close the loophole and represent a 8


### massive victory for every American feeling the 9


### impacts of climate change and breathing dirty 10



### air. 11



### So we are he re to ask you to get energy 12



### from above, not all the above. We have a choice, 13


### innovation or pollution. The risk to our 14


### climate, our health and our economy is too great 15


### to take immediate steps that will protect us now 16



### and in the future. We have a moral 17



### re sponsibility to address global warming now and 18



### the effects of these power plants. If we do 19


### nothing today, our children will be worse off. 20



### We ask you to help us to protect the 21


### creation and humanity one kilowatt at a time. We 22

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### ask you to make your own cont ribution to help 1


### creation and humanity estate and make polluters 2


### pay. Please respond with energy, clean up 3


### energy. Our community needs not just any energy, 4


### we need just energy. 5



### Thank you very much. 6



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Burgos. 7



### Mr. Williams. 8



### MR . WILLIAMS: Good morning. My name is 9


### Craig Williams, C

- r

- a

- i

- g, W

- i

- l

- l

- i

- a

- m

- s. I'm 10



### with Environment Colorado. 11



### I've been an environmentalist for over 25 12


### years and have enjoyed the benefits of EPA 13


### regulations like the Clean Water Act, the Clean 14



### Air Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act. However, 15


### my resolve was strengthened in December of 2006 16



### when my son was born. 17



### I am an avid reader and follower of the 18



### IPCC climate assessments and the national climate 19



### assessments. These warn of more dangerous 20



### conditions to include increased wild fires, 21


### severe drought, and reduced water availability. 22

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### And these affects are directly related to the 1


### amount of greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide 2


### that we release into the atmosphere unchecked. 3



### It is time for EPA to follow thr ough on the power 4


### it has to regulate this dangerous pollutant, 5



### powers that have been upheld by two Supreme Court 6


### rulings. I encourage EPA to move forward with 7



### haste on the Clean Power Plan to start the 8


### healing process for out climate and to jump start 9



### a c lean energy economy that is certain to create 10


### sustainable jobs and to help secure our nation. 11



### Thank you. 12


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Williams. 13



### You can both be seated. 14


### All right. If I can have the next four 15


### speakers come and sit, that would be helpful

. 16



### Bruce Ferguson, Dave Bufalo, Robert Jones, and 17



### Jeff Berman. 18



### PARTICIPANT: Madam Chairman. 19



### MS. SUTIN: Yes. 20


### PARTICIPANT: Your light is turned away 21


### and speakers can't see it. 22

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### MS. SUTIN: I'm sorry? 1


### PARTICIPANT: The light should be turned 2


### sideways so speakers can see it also. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. 4



### Okay. If I can have Bruce Ferguson and 5


### Dave Bufalo please stand at the podium. 6



### Mr. Ferguson, go ahead. 7


### MR. FERGUSON: Thank you. My name is 8



### Bruce Ferguson, B

- r

- u

- c

- e, Ferguson, F

- e

- r

- g

- u

- s

9



### o

- n. T hank you. 10


### I'm grateful the EPA is willing to use 11


### its established regulatory authority to curb 12



### harmful emissions at a time when it's clear 13


### Congress lacks the will to do this. I represent 14


### Catskill Citizens for Safe Energy, an all

15



### volunteer, grassroots orga nization with 14,000 16


### members in New York State and around the country. 17


### My community organized in 2008 in 18


### opposition to high

- volume fracking because it was 19


### apparent that this inherently dangerous 20


### industrial process posed a threat to our drinking 21



### water, our health, and our community character. 22

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### Today it's clear that fracking is not 1


### only a local issue, it's an international one. 2


### Because the extraction processing and 3


### transmission of shale gas releases so much heat 4


### trapping methane into the atmosphere that if 5



### f racking goes untracked, it will be impossible to 6


### avoid the devastating impacts of climate change. 7


### I appreciate EPA's willingness to to 8


### address power plant emissions, but I believe the 9


### method selected to measure them is deeply flawed. 10


### If the rule is imple mented as written, it could 11


### produce a result that is, in one important way, 12


### the exact opposite of what is intended. Instead 13


### of curtailing total greenhouse gas emissions, it 14


### may actually increase them and exacerbate climate 15



### change. 16


### The problem with the ru le is twofold. 17


### First it addresses only smoke stack emissions, 18


### not all emissions produced by fossil fuels 19



### consumed by power plants. 20


### Second, it addresses only carbon dioxide, 21



### not all greenhouse gases. 22

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### It might make sense to focus only on 1



### smokestack emis sions of carbon dioxide if all 2


### fossil fuels have the same pattern of greenhouse 3


### gas emissions, but that is simply not the case. 4


### Coal releases large quantities of carbon 5


### dioxide into the atmosphere when it is burned, 6


### and these emissions would be regulated by the 7



### rule. 8



### On the other hand, natural gas, 9


### particularly shale gas, extracted by fracking 10


### releases large quantities of methane during 11


### extraction, processing, and transmission. And 12


### these lifecycle missions are not measured and 13


### will go unregulated. 14



### Po und for pound methane traps 86 times 15



### more heat that carbon dioxide when it is released 16


### into the atmosphere. And the volume of the so

17


### called "fugitive emissions" is so great that many 18


### scientists have concluded that the greenhouse gas 19


### footprint of shale gas is actually greater than 20



### that of coal over a 20

- year timeframe. 21



### Robert Howers, et al, reached this 22

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### conclusion in 2011 and it's been supported by a 1


### number of more recent studies, yet it is utterly 2


### ignored by EPA rule. 3


### A related problem is that EPA only 4


### considers the global warming potential of methane 5



### over the 100

- year timeframe rather than over the 6



### 20

-- the critical 20

- year timeframe when we must 7


### act to avoid the dire impacts of climate change. 8


### The problem with looking at the 100

- year 9


### time period ins tead of the 20

- year time period 10


### was summed up in an article by Joe Ron aptly 11


### titled, "By the Time Natural Gas has a Net 12


### Climate Benefit, You Will Likely Be Dead and the 13


### Climate Ruined." Despite these major defects, 14


### it's been suggested that the proposed ru le is a 15


### good first step and that fugitive methane 16


### emissions can and will be addressed by another 17


### rule at a later date. But later is likely to be 18



### too late. 19


### While EPA continues to study fugitive 20



### methane emissions, this rule, which is due to be 21



### adopted nex t year explicitly encourages large

22

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### scale investment in new gas

- fired power plants. 1


### Once these new plants are built, the owners will 2


### understandably expect to amortize construction 3


### costs over decades. If in a year, or two, or 4


### three EPA determines that fug itive emissions 5


### associated with fracked gas are as detrimental as 6


### many independent scientists now say they are, and 7


### if it turns out the curtailing fugitive emissions 8


### should prove to be an intractable problem, the 9


### Agency will not be in a position to reverse 10



### course and demand that the newly constructed gas 11


### fired plants be taken off line. 12


### For this reason fugitive emissions 13


### associated with shale gas must be addressed now 14


### in the proposed rule if it is to be an effective 15


### tool in fighting climate change. 16



### When E PA does consider the totality of 17



### harmful emissions associated with all fossil 18


### fuels it will become apparent that replacing one 19



### fossil fuel with another makes no sense. 20


### A comprehensive assessment of life

- cycle 21


### emissions will lead to only one conclusion. T he 22

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### only responsible course of action is to rapidly 1


### develop renewable energy systems that will 2


### quickly free us from dependence on all fossil 3



### fuels. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Ferguson. 6



### Go ahead, please. 7


### MR. BUFALO: My name is Dave Bufalo, no t 8



### buffalo. 9



### MS. SUTIN: Oh, I'm sorry. 10


### MR. BUFALO: Apologies accepted. B

- u

- f

11



### a

- l

- o. Again, first name is Dave. 12


### I support clean air. I feel that's a 13


### good thing. I support clean water, that's a good 14


### thing. In this proposed regulation there's 15



### benefits

-- the benefits of reducing nitrogen 16



### oxide emissions as well as sulfur dioxide 17



### emissions. 18


### EPA standards for nitrogen oxide was 19


### first set in 1971, nitrogen oxide EPA standards 20


### revised in January 2010. As of October 2012 no 21



### area of the country has been f ound to be out of 22

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### compliance. So why are you doing that? 1



### The first sulfur dioxide standards were 2



### set in 1971. New sulfur dioxide standards were 3



### set in June 2010. Since 1980 to date, sulfur 4


### dioxide concentrations have decreased by 71 5



### percent. So why ar e you doing this? We've 6


### already got regulations to cover that. 7


### Now, with respect to CO2 commentary, by 8


### the way, carbon dioxide is .04 percent of the 9


### atmosphere. Nowhere in this document does the 10



### EPA state what the percentage of atmosphere CO2 11



### should be. Nowhere in this document does the EPA 12



### say what the average global temperature should 13


### be. In earth's history CO2 concentrations have 14


### been as high as 6,000 parts per million. 15



### Greenhouses keep CO2 levels at 2,000 parts per 16



### million. 17



### The U.S. submarine fl eet says 8,000 parts 18


### per million is the upper limit for air quality. 19


### Human tolerance for CO2 is between 10,000 ppm and 20


### 15,000 parts per million and the current level of 21


### carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is 400 parts per 22

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### million. 1



### The EPA has assumed probl em for rising 2


### CO2 levels, raising average global temperatures, 3


### but there has been no global warming for about 4



### the past 17 years. Even the IPC acknowledges 5



### this. 6



### You see where there are more frequent 7


### storms. Roger Culky of the University of 8



### Colorado at Boulder has debunked that method. 9


### Increased hurricane intensity and 10


### frequency has also been debunked by Dr. William 11


### Gray at the Colorado State University. 12



### Sea level rise, there has been no 13



### observed increase in the rate of sea level rise. 14



### Sea level rise has been running about four 15


### millimeters a year for the last 50 years. 16



### Now, here's a few kickers. Dr. Ollie 17


### Spencer of the University of Alabama at 18



### Huntsville estimates that mankind's contribution 19


### to CO2 levels is 1 molecule of CO2 for every 20



### 100,000 mol ecules of air over five years. 21


### Other countries are not cutting back on 22

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### their CO2 emissions. Australia has just repealed 1



### it's carbon facts. Since the Fukushima tsunami 2


### disaster Japan has shut down all of its nuclear 3


### plants and switched to coal fired pla nts. 4


### Also since Fukushima, Germany is cutting 5


### down on it's nuclear plants and is now going to 6



### coal

- fired plants. 7


### China and India are continuing to go 8



### coal

- fired plants. England won't agree to 9


### cutting CO2 emissions until the rest of the world 10



### agrees to do so also. 11



### Third world countries don't want their 12


### power options limited. 13


### California legislators are now, June 2, 14


### '14 concerned about the financial impact of the 15


### cap and scrape program. Here's a publication 16


### that just came out. 17



### A July 19th, 2014 publ ication of 18



### Atmosphere C hemistry and P hysics stated that only 19


### 3.75 percent or 15 parts per million of 20


### atmospheric CO2 in the lower atmosphere is from 21


### burning fossil fuel. This is contrary to the 22

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### previous belief that fossil fuel has contributed 1



### 130 parts pe r million of CO2 into the atmosphere. 2



### Now, from EPA down, I calculated what the 3


### percent decrease in CO2 concentraiton would be 4


### under this proposal. Table 12 on page 34,936 5


### state that this program would lead to a decrease 6



### of 555 million metric tons of atm ospheric CO2 by 7


### the year 2030. Big number. However, the weight 8


### of CO2 currently in the atmosphere is 3.1281 9



### times ten to the 14th metric tons. Now, I can't 10


### pronounce that number in regular English, but 11


### it's a measure of three followed by 14 zeros. 12



### That 's roughly

-- okay, so the percent reduction 13


### is .00018 percent. So if you round that back to 14


### about two decimal places, you get a current 15


### concentration of .04 percent. 16



### MS. SUTIN: Mr. Bufalo, I need to ask you 17



### to

-- 18


### MR. BUFALO: Limiting by this plan w ill 19


### do nothing to cut CO2 worldwide. 20



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Bufalo. 21



### Next if we could have Robert Jones and 22

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### Jeff Berman up to the podium. Thank you. Mr. 1



### Jones. 2


### MR. JONES: Yes, good morning. I'm 3



### Robert Jones, J

- o

- n

- e

- s. I'm a member of the 4



### Sierr a Club. 5



### Fossil fuel enabled the industrial 6


### revolution and provided a rising standard of 7


### living for many. However this gift of stored 8


### energy has many dangerous side effects. Smog and 9


### soot darkened our skies and damaged lungs, but 10



### eventually people took s teps to limit these 11



### problems. 12


### Later acid rain destroyed forests. We 13


### reduced sulfur emissions. Arsenic, mercury, and 14


### ozone emissions harmed people and animals. Again 15


### society acted to protect people and the 16



### environment. 17


### Now we recognize a new danger. Burning of 18


### fossil fuels is rapidly increasing the carbon 19


### dioxide concentration in the atmosphere. About a 20



### third of the extra carbon dioxide released into 21


### the air is absorbed by the oceans and results in 22

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### lowering the Ph level of ocean water. This 1



### decrease d ph level presents an especially great 2



### risk for animals such as shell fish, coral, and 3


### many species of plankton that build their shells 4



### or exoskeletons from carbonates. Many of the 5


### coral reefs are at risk and oyster hatcheries in 6



### the Pacific Northwest al ready report that they 7


### can only take in sea water when the carbon 8


### dioxide level in the water is sufficiently low. 9



### The oceans supply much of our oxygen and 10


### a substantial portion of the world's protein. So 11


### the health of the oceans is important even for 12



### la ndlocked citizens. 13


### The other major impact of carbon dioxide 14


### emissions is the increased greenhouse effect that 15


### results in global warming. The role of carbon

16


### based fuels and increasing global temperatures 17


### was recognized as early as the 1890s. Today 18



### there is compelling evidence that the earth is 19


### warming and science is highly confident that 20


### human activity makes major contributions. 21



### Since increased carbon dioxide in the 22

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### atmosphere persists for centuries, the cumulative 1


### effect of emissions is an accelerating rate of 2


### climate change. Thus, the greatest impact will 3


### be passed on to our children and grand children. 4


### The recent risky business report by 5


### business and policy leaders outlines billions of 6


### dollars of financial damages and health risks 7



### from climate chan ge if we continue business as 8



### usual. 9



### Along the eastern seaboard and gulf 10


### coast, rising sea levels will inundate low

- lying 11


### areas and enhance storm damage that will drive 12


### these losses even higher. By 2050 temperatures of 13


### 95 degrees Fahrenheit and above are expected for 14



### several months each summer in much of the 15



### southwest, southeast, and m idwest. Higher 16


### temperatures will increase cooling costs and 17


### power generation demands. High temperatures 18


### combined with high humidity will result in deadly 19



### conditions for out side workers for several days 20



### each year across much of the eastern U.S. by 21



### 2100. These are extreme conditions that do not 22

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### exist anyplace on the earth now. 1


### The report recognizes the adaptability of 2


### farmers but still expects significant 3


### agricultural losse s, especially in the midwest 4



### and south. 5



### The report also acknowledges the reduced 6


### rainfall that's anticipated in the southwest but 7


### does not attempt to quantify the addition damages 8


### from this effect. This report only addresses 9


### direct damages to human and does not begin to 10


### explore any of the additional environmental 11



### changes. 12


### I believe that corporate citizens as well 13


### as the rest of us need to be responsible for the 14


### collateral damages of their actions, or, as mom 15



### would say, clean up your own mess. 16



### The EP A Clean Power Plan calls for a 30 17


### percent reduction in carbon emissions by 2030. 18


### This is achievable. It gives the states 19


### substantial latitude in reaching these goals. 20


### American industry has proven many times 21


### over that it can successfully adapt to changin g 22

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### conditions. I hope that industry, government, 1


### and the public will work together to reduce 2


### carbon emissions. It's the right thing to do for 3



### our future. Thank you. 4



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Jones. 5



### Mr. Berman. 6


### MR. BERMAN: Thank you. Good morning. 7


### My name is Jeff Berman, I am a rural electric 8


### cooperative director. I've been on the Oplata 9


### (ph) Electric Association Board of Directors for 10


### the past decade. I also am our representative to 11


### the statewide lobbying organization, the Colorado 12



### Rural Electric Association. I do not stand here 13


### to speak on behalf of CREA, I will speak on 14


### behalf of Oplata Electric and myself briefly. 15


### In my capacity, in my role, in the last 16



### ten years I've done a tremendous amount of 17


### research. Of course, I spent a lot of time in 18


### board meetings and reviewing the actual effects 19


### of various regulatory proposals, legislative 20


### proposals, that would impact electricity 21


### generation in terms of its environmental impact, 22

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### reliability, its safety, and its affordability. 1


### And in that capacity, i n the past, I have 2


### found and we have found on many an occasion where 3



### there are often, let's call them "exaggerate 4


### claims" of costs for our compliance. This is not 5


### surprising. The rural electric cooperatives 6



### nationwide of which there are about 900, serve, I 7


### believe, about 20 percent of the American 8


### population and much of the country 9


### geographically. 10



### We are more reliant on fossil fuels, 11


### particularly coal, than just about any other 12


### electric utility structure in the country. So it 13


### is not surprising that the National Rural 14


### Electric Cooperative Association and much of the 15


### rural electric cooperative industry is gearing up 16



### to challenge the clean power plant. 17


### Now, while I've done a lot of reading, I 18



### sit in a lot of board rooms and I hear a lot of 19


### presentations o n these issues. And as an 20


### electrical engineer I am a little bit able to 21


### decipher when we have a real challenge, which 22

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### there are some. 1



### I don't have to sit in those board rooms 2


### and do the reading to see the evidence and the 3


### impacts. 4


### If you climb up to th e Continental Divide 5



### in southwest Colorado, which I do on occasion, 6


### and you look down into one valley after another, 7


### walking along the divide, you will be shocked 8


### because our forests are gone. They are dying. 9


### Why are all the spruce trees dying? Because t he 10



### spruce bark beetle has basically been turbo 11



### charged. 12


### In the past spruce bark beetles which 13


### kill spruce trees, they would be beaten back by 14



### cold winters and cold shoulder seasons. But as 15


### the evidence and climate change moves forward, 16



### unfortunately th ey're not getting beaten back by 17


### the cold weather. They are essentially turbo 18


### charged and they don't die back, and they are 19


### killing everything. They are killing all the 20


### forests up there. And you think, well, that's a 21


### minor impact, but it's not. It affe cts our 22

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### tourism, and it certainly will affect agriculture 1


### because the snow pack is held in large part by 2


### the forests at high altitude. And as those 3


### forests succumb and they fall over, you will not 4


### have the benefit of shade. On the snowpack 5



### runoff will oc cur more quickly, and we see this. 6


### We see t his in Durango, we see it in our Animas 7


### River, you can see it throughout our area, other 8


### evidence mounting is sparse. 9



### So we have some concerns. EPA will be 10


### attacked for this. But I urge you to maintain 11



### your l eadership role. This is a challenge that 12


### we must address. And unfortunately I believe the 13


### rural electric cooperatives will fight this 14


### including with many of my own electric bill 15


### dollars and marketing throughout the country that 16



### we must stand strong and w hile addressing the 17


### problems that rural electric cooperatives will 18


### present, we must move forward and adopt something 19


### like this rule. That is why my electric 20


### cooperative adopted a resolution urging the 21


### National Rural Electric Cooperative Association 22

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### to ack nowledge climate change, its impacts, and 1



### for us to address our own contributions to it. 2



### Thank you very much. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Berman. 4


### Okay. If I can have Bill Dvor a k, Brian 5


### Depew, Mildred Griffin and R. S. Harvey. 6



### You can sit in those chairs and I'll call 7


### you when it's time for you to speak. 8


### Okay. If Bill Dvor a k and Brian Depew 9


### would step up to the podium. Mr. Dvor a k, you can 10


### go first. 11



### MR. DVORAK: It's actually Dvorak. 12



### MS. SUTIN: Dvorak. 13


### MR. DVORAK: My name is Bill D

- v

- o

- r

- a

- k. 14



### And I own Bill Dvorak's pack, rafting, and 15


### fishing expeditions based in Colorado. We run 16


### nine different rivers based throughout Colorado, 17


### Utah, New Mexico and Wyoming. 18



### I'm also on the board of director and 19


### past chairman of the Colorado River Outfitters 20



### Asso ciation which represents outfitters 21



### throughout the states. 22

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### I thank you for this opportunity to 1


### testify regarding the EPA's proposed c lean p ower 2



### p lan. I am here today to strongly support your 3


### historic action to combat climate change by 4


### setting limits on carbon pollution from existing 5



### power plants. 6


### Our warming climate is posing one of the 7


### greatest threats to the river outfitting business 8


### at which I make my living. We now have earlier 9


### and shorter spring runoff which occurs prior to 10


### when our clients typica lly can take their 11


### vacations. We also have to deal with recurring 12


### droughts. The one in 2002 was the worst one 13


### we've seen in Colorado in 350 years. 14



### We had a similar one in 2002 and we've 15



### had varied sorts of climate action ever since 16



### where we have extrem es. One year it might be 17


### extremely high water, the next year it might be 18


### sort of low water. And it's been very unusual to 19


### actually have a normal season in the last 20

- some 20



### years. 21



### In 2002 and 2012 our businesses were off 22

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### about 50 percent because of thos e droughts. 1


### The other thing that we've had to deal 2


### with is seasonal flooding. We've had floods, as 3


### you are aware here in Colorado that have had 4


### devastating effects not only on our rivers, but 5



### also on our infrastructure and our cities. We've 6



### had a lot o f flash flooding that has actually 7


### killed a lot of the fish which, again, I'm a 8


### fishing outfitter, so fishing is very important 9


### to me. But the other thing that it's done is 10



### it's covered in silt, the river bottoms, and 11


### wiped out the insects that these fish rely on. 12


### So the flash flooding has also been a big 13


### impact. 14


### The other thing that we've had to deal 15



### with is a lot of wildfires. And those have 16


### closed significant portions of many rivers 17


### throughout the state in the last ten years. 18


### The other thing that we've seen that the 19


### previous speaker alluded to is that in many of 20


### our rivers now, 60 to 70 percent of the trees 21


### along the river have died. And this is primarily 22

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### from the bark beetle infestation. And what's 1


### happening with bark beetles is we used to have 30 2


### degree below zero weather in the winter that 3


### would actually wipe the bark beetles out. And we 4



### don't have that anymore. 5


### The other thing that we used to have is 6



### we used to have one hatch a year where a bark 7



### beetle female would hatch out about 60 eggs , now 8


### it's double. That female is starting earlier, in 9


### May instead of in late June, the 60 eggs that she 10


### lays then have a second generation and so that's 11


### the turbo charging that you'll see. 12


### We're actually having about a 300

- fold 13


### magnification in the nu mber of bark beetles 14


### because they have that second generation every 15



### year. 16



### (Pause.) 17



### MR. DVORAK: We've also seen a lot of 18


### significant impacts because of both water 19


### quantity and water quality due to oil and gas 20



### development. I'm also a hunter and where I used 21


### to hunt, we've seen a lot of fragmentation. And 22

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### some of the areas that I used to hunt in which 1



### were the mule deer, some of the largest mule 2


### deer, migratory populations in the world, and we 3


### used to be able to go in there and seasonally

-- 4



### sometimes you could take three or four animals 5


### out, just because they tried to keep the number 6



### of animals down to what the habitat could 7



### actually support. Now, you can't even draw a 8


### license in those areas because those populations 9


### have gone off 30 to 60 percent in many cases 10


### because of that fragmentation. 11


### While natural gas may indeed release less 12



### CO2 than coal at the power plant, the problem 13


### that we have is methane leakage that occurs from 14


### poorly regulated oil and gas development. And, 15


### again, methane is one of tho se things that's 20 16


### to 100 times more ozone depleting than CO2. So 17


### we have to get a handle on what we're doing with 18


### the oil and gas industry as well as what we're 19


### doing with coal. 20



### That means that our future energy demands 21



### should be met with wildlife fri endly renewable 22

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### energy sources like the sun and the wind as well 1


### as better energy efficiency. 2



### The EPA should actually strengthen the 3


### standard to reflect the potential of those 4



### renewables. 5


### The other thing is that in Colorado, 6



### outdoor recreation is the s econd largest economic 7


### driver. It contributes about $35 billion overall 8


### and about $20 billion to the gross domestic 9



### product. It supports more than 313,000 jobs or 10



### about 13 percent of the total workforce, and 11


### produces 12.4 billion in salaries and wages. 12


### Angling, hunting, and wildlife viewing 13


### generated over $5 billion, and my own small 14


### outdoor industry contributed about 150 million. 15



### And I've got an actual report here that I can 16


### leave with you. Thank you for your time. 17



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Dvorak. And I 18


### apologize again for mispronouncing your name. 19



### MR. DVORAK: That's fine. 20



### MS. SUTIN: Mr. Depew? 21



### MR. DEPEW: Thank you. M y name is Brian 22

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### Depew, B

- r

- i

- a

- n D

- e

- p

- e

- w. I'm the executive 1



### director of the Center for Rural Affairs. I 2



### traveled here from Lyons, Nebraska, a town of 850 3


### people in northeast Nebraska to offer my support 4


### for your agency's action to address climate 5



### change. 6



### For over 40 years the Center for Rural 7


### Affairs has worked for vibrant rural places with 8


### opportunity for all. Every day ou r work gives us 9



### a seat at the table in small towns across 10


### America. It's where we hear the good and the 11


### bad, the stories about hope and triumph. We hear 12


### from leaders who make our communities strong, and 13


### we hear from those who are too busy and working 14



### too hard to take any credit for that. 15


### Stories from people like Matt Russell, a 16


### fifth generation farmer in Iowa who is already 17


### experiencing the effects of climate change. He's 18



### worried that we won't be able to meet the needs 19


### of a growing population, that the agricultural 20


### systems we have in place now are no longer 21



### viable. 22

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### Or Harley Bias, a conventional farmer 1



### from Minnesota, who decided to buck convention 2


### and now farms with carbon sequestration on his 3



### mind. He knows that it's his job, as a good 4



### steward to lea ve the land better than when he 5



### started. 6


### Matt and Harley live in the Midwest, a 7


### region that includes more than half a million 8


### farms producing crops valued at $136 billion per 9


### year and accounting for 65 percent of national 10


### production of corn and soybeans

. 11


### If nothing changes, this region will 12


### experience yield declines of up to 19 percent by 13


### mid century and 63 percent by the end of the 14


### century. That puts people like Matt and Harley 15



### out of business. 16


### And it's not just farmers who are 17



### concerned. In Iowa, National Resource 18


### Administrator, Rich Leopold, faces the challenges 19


### that climate change possessed for Iowa's 20


### infrastructure and natural resources every day. 21


### Rich knows that we cannot simply afford to adapt 22

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### to severe flooding and extreme weather. 1



### We do n't claim to speak for everybody, 2


### but the relationships we have built over the past 3


### four decades remind us that stewardship is still 4


### strong in rural America. That's why in the past 5


### few weeks more than 60 community leaders have 6


### added their names to a sign on letter that we 7


### drafted. That includes rural people from right 8



### here in Colorado. The letter will be delivered 9


### to Senators in Washington. 10


### And 600 friends of Rural American signed 11


### our petition in support of the carbon pollution 12



### standard we are discussi ng here today. That 13


### includes farmers, ranchers, people of faith, 14


### university professors, extension agents, 15



### scientists, tribal leaders, small business 16


### owners, local conservationists, reporters, 17


### artists, students, grandparents and 18


### grandchildren. Those are j ust some of the people 19


### who have been attending community conversations 20


### in small towns to discuss what climate change 21



### means and what we can do about it. And we're 22

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### just getting started. 1



### We hear from tribal leaders in Montana 2


### who are worried about losing higher elevation 3



### plants they depend on for consumption. 4


### Farmers and rural people can and will 5


### adapt. Double and triple cropping, crop 6


### switching, and other adaptive practices are all 7


### on the table. Key energy and energy efficiency 8


### present exciting econo mic opportunit ies, but you 9


### can only hear so much from farmers like Arlen 10


### Skipper who feels the biggest issue with climate 11


### right now is that there is no awareness. 12


### This rule isn't perfect, it won't solve 13


### all of our problems, but it's a good step in the 14



### r ight direction and that's why you will be 15


### hearing from rural people from across the country 16


### supporting these efforts. And that's why you'll 17


### see groups like ours committed to using outreach 18



### and education to overcome the misinformation and 19



### fear tactics that too often shape this debate. 20


### Fred Ables an Iowa farmer says it best, 21


### "Climate change isn't something we can ignore, 22

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### now is time to face the problem head on." 1


### I thank you for your willingness to do 2


### just that. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Depew. 4



### If I can have Mildred Griffin and R.S. 5


### Harvey stand at the podium. And Ms. Griffin, 6


### you'll go first. 7


### MS. GRIFFIN: Okay. Mildred Griffin, G

8



### r

- i

- f

- f

- i

- n. Well, I don't have a business or 9


### anything, but I can easily see I'm just a regular 10


### person, and I can easil y see climate change is 11



### here. And I wish to thank the EPA for all 12


### they're doing to clean up the air and the water. 13


### My drinking water comes from the South 14


### Platt River, it's so filthy at times I don't know 15


### how they ever clean it enough to get it to be 16



### drin king water, but that's where my drinking 17


### water comes from. And I really appreciate clean 18



### water, and all the animals that live there, and I 19


### just hope you will just continue on getting rid 20



### of coal. The power plants that really cause 21


### pollution and the oil a nd gas industry just to

-- 22

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### we have to have oil and gas, but it just needs to 1



### be cleaned up and watched carefully. 2



### I am really for solar and small cars that 3


### don't pollute. I just appreciate all you're 4


### doing and just to continue on. Thank you very 5



### much. 6


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Griffin. 7



### Mr. Harvey. 8


### MR. HARVEY: My name is Robert Harvey. 9


### I'm from Colorado Spring, Colorado. I'm a a 10


### civil engineer and a 30

- year resident of Colorado 11


### Springs. 12



### In 1995 I climbed one of our downtown 13


### power plant chimneys and attempted to look down 14


### it for several minutes and had quite an epiphany, 15



### an emotional reactio n, quite frankly that so much 16


### stuff is coming out of our chimneys that people 17



### are unaware of. They see the clouds from the 18


### cooling towers and they see that as a detriment 19


### to society, but they don't see the invisible 20



### gases that come out. 21


### I sat down after that with the plant 22

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### engineer and he gave me some data and I 1


### calculated, we both actually calculated it 2



### together that between our two coal

- fired 3


### generating sta tions, if you were to put glass 4


### walls around the city limits of Colorado Springs, 5


### each year we would be about 170 feet deep in 6


### poisonous gas if the wind didn't blow and those 7


### glass walls held tight. 8


### If you add to that automobiles and we're 9



### about 300 feet deep in our machine emissions. 10


### That's pretty pathetic. And that's when I got on 11


### my clean energy campaign and I've been talking 12


### about this for some 20 years in Colorado Springs, 13


### and it's a tough fight down there. I seek to 14


### find out why people believe wha t they believe. 15



### If you recall back when the global 16


### warming first came apparent, the first argument 17


### against it was, we don't have enough data to say 18


### that the temperature is rising. NASA put up 19


### satellites to confirm the data. Well, they went 20



### on to anothe r denial position and quite frankly 21


### I'm not sure where they are right now, but 3 22

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### percent of the scientific knowledgeable community 1


### is certainly on board with where we are, where 2


### we're going; 97 percent are or 3 percent are 3


### denying, 97 percent are agreeing that we have a 4


### problem. And I keep trying to find out why 5


### people are against this. And it really does boil 6


### down to the ethics of money being the most 7


### important thing in our society. 8


### And here in Colorado Springs where we 9


### have a large population of suppo sed Christian, 10


### evangelical, spiritually

- minded people, you 11



### mention the word creation care to them and it 12


### just goes right over their head. Once again, the 13


### morality of money seem to dominate their 14


### perspective on where things are and where things 15


### are going. 16


### So I appreciate what EPA is doing. The 17


### Clean Air Act was a subject of study in my high 18


### school government class and ever since then I've 19


### paid attention to these sort of issues and I find 20


### that the coal industry in particular has 21


### perpetrated one of the bi ggest frauds in American 22

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### society since the Clean Air Act when they lobbied 1


### and were grandfathered exclusion from the Clean 2


### Air Act and then under the premise that their 3



### power plants wouldn't last that long and they'll 4


### be working their way out of the system very 5


### shortly and the industry went about pumping 6



### millions and millions of dollars into life 7



### expectancy

-- life extension of these plants. So 8


### I think that you're probably going to hear

-- I'm 9


### believing there's going to be a great deal of 10



### people that talk to you about their approval of 11


### where you're going. There's going to be some 12



### people that don't. And some of those folks have 13


### the ethics of money in their forefront. If we 14


### had put them in charge of getting us to the moon 15



### some 30 years ago, we would have b lown up on the 16


### crash site because they just don't have a can

- do 17



### attitude. 18


### Colorado Springs utilities in the daytime 19


### peaks is about 900 megawatts. The night time 20


### base load is about 500 megawatts. So while 98 21


### percent of the population is sleeping, we're 22

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### s till using about half the electricity. That's 1


### just crazy. There is so much room for 2


### improvement in the way we're doing things that we 3


### have to make it imperative that we change our 4



### habits. 5


### I see conservation is changing habits. 6


### Efficiency is changing s ystems. But we can 7


### certainly improve on all of the above. Some of 8


### the folks that you're going to hear from they're 9


### going to say, it's going to cost us more. And I 10


### frankly did my energy management strategies with 11


### customers' buildings. I find that there' s a 12



### great deal

-- number of people who would rather 13


### whine about their energy costs than actually do 14


### something about it. 15


### So we need to change that attitude and I 16


### think your rules will help to that end. 17


### Thank you very much, I appreciate it. 18



### Oh, and by th e way, one of our coal

- fired 19


### generating stations releases 14,400 pounds of 20


### lead each year, according to the toxic release 21


### inventory. We've eliminated lead from paint, 22

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### gasoline, and crayons and I think we should 1


### probably eliminate it from our emissions as well. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Harvey. 4



### You can all be seated, thank you. 5



### Okay. If I can have Johnny Bear Cub 6



### Stiff a rm, Reverend Nelson Bock, Brandon Cheshire 7



### and Nancy LaFacca. 8



### Okay. If I can have Johnny Bear Cub 9



### Stiff Arm and Reveren d Nelson Bock to the 10


### podiums, please. 11


### All right. Ms. Stiff a rm, if you want to 12


### go first, thank you. 13



### MS. BEAR CUB STIFFARM: I come to you in 14


### two capacities. First and foremost as a tribal 15



### member who lives on one of the few American 16



### Indian reservations with a class one are region 17


### designation. 18


### And secondly, as an individual employed 19


### by one of the leaders in the voluntary carbon 20


### market. These public hearings along with 21


### numerous global warming related bills considered 22

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### over the past few years all demonstra te the 1


### importance and timeliness of our actions on 2


### combating and m itigating global climate change 3


### that is happening to our world. The proposed 4


### rule provides great flexibility which can be 5


### beneficial, but also causes guarded optimism in 6


### many individuals. 7


### I will speak first as a tribal member. 8



### The Fort Peck Indian reservation covers 9


### approximately 2,093,318 acres of rolling prairie 10



### land in northeastern Montana. The reservation 11


### environment is typical of the unique beauty found 12



### in the short

- grass prairies of the northern great 13


### plains region. 14


### Elevations throughout the reservation 15



### vary from 1900 feet to 3100 feet. The remoteness 16


### of the Fort Peck reservation has so far protected 17


### the natural environment of the rural lifestyle of 18


### its people. Careful plannin g and foresight will 19


### ensure the maintenance of this valuable heritage 20


### for generations to come. 21


### Air quality monitoring establish baseline 22

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### air quality conditions on the reservation which 1


### reflect a very pristine environment. Tribal air 2


### quality goals inclu de to protect and enhance, 3


### number one, the quality of the air of the Fort 4


### Peck reservation so as to protect and enhance 5



### human health, welfare, and safety. 6


### Two, the agricultural productivity of the 7



### reservation. 8



### Three, the aesthetic and environmental 9



### qual ity of the reservation. 10


### And, four, to foster economic development 11



### on the reservation in a manner consistent with 12


### the preservation of the air quality of the 13



### reservation. 14



### The Fort Peck reservation is a class one 15


### air region and visibility is a valued aspe ct of 16


### the reservation's redesignation intent. 17


### Visibility monitoring is necessary for 18


### establishing baseline conditions to be used in 19


### evaluating impasse of any proposed sources or 20


### controls assessing the relative impasse of 21


### manmade pollution and natural sour ces that 22

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### contribute to visibility impairment. To that end 1


### the tribes have initiated improved monitoring as 2


### part of our overall air shed monitoring for long

3


### term visibility trends. 4


### Class one redesignation allows for only 5


### degradation of the air shed by cla ss one 6



### increments which are more restrictive. The 7



### tribes have received and reviewed increment 8


### consumption analysis completed by EPA for coal

9


### fired power plants in the state of North Dakota. 10



### To date the increment for Fort Peck has 11



### not been consumed. Howe ver, developing oil and 12


### gas interests in the Balcan are expected to 13


### affect that increment and the tribes will expect 14



### that EPA will continue to monitor increment 15


### consumption in mandatory and other class one 16


### areas in this region. 17



### While we are aware that C O2 regulation is 18


### not primarily about air quality, it is well

- known 19


### that heat waves, which we can expect more of in 20


### this warming world, make any given level of air 21


### quality impairment worse. 22

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### Just as we seek to minimize emissions of 1


### criteria pollutants, we should also seek to 2



### minimize circumstances that increase the adverse 3


### results of those emissions. As such, we applaud 4


### the EPA for it's efforts to minimize the impacts 5


### of global warming by reducing CO2 emissions. 6


### While EPA has expertise in many areas and 7



### m any types of pollutants, carbon pollution 8


### regulation is new. Add to this the burdens on 9


### tribal leadership to make the decision to retain 10


### class one designation or allow for change in the 11


### face of developing economic opportunity for 12



### fossil fuel extraction is heartbreaking, and is 13


### heartbreaking from every direction. 14



### Will we have a choice or even have the 15


### opportunity to voice our opinion in the future. 16


### While I am cautiously optimistic, I am also a 17


### realist. The proposed rule is flexible and 18


### industry can live with it. But will it be enough 19


### to provide protection to those areas, especially 20



### to the tribes that do have a class one 21


### designation. 22

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### I speak secondly as an individual 1


### employed by one of the leaders in the voluntary 2


### carbon market. Native Energy Incorpora ted has 3


### been an active participant in the voluntary and 4



### mandatory carbon offsets and renewable energy 5


### credit market for over 13 years. 6



### In the U.S. both the voluntary and 7



### mandatory carbon markets have emerged and matured 8



### over the past 15 years. Methodol ogies and 9


### standards have been developed ensuring the 10


### environmental integrity

-- thank you. 11



### MS. SUTIN: I'm sorry. 12



### MS. BEAR CUB STIFFARM: I need to spell 13


### my last name. Capital B

- e

- a

- r, capital C

- u

- b, 14


### space, capital S

- t

- i

- f

- f

- a

- r

- m. 15



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Bear Cub 16



### Stiffarm. Reverend Bock. 17


### REVEREND BOCK: Yes, good morning. And 18


### thank you for listening. My name is Nelson Bock, 19



### and that's spelled B

- o

- c

- k. I live here in 20



### Denver. 21



### I'm a Lutheran minister and I teach on 22

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### the subject of religion and e nvironment for a 1



### Lutheran college. I'm also a member of the 2



### Board of Directors of Colorado Interfaith Power 3


### and Light which is one of 40 state affiliates 4


### working with communities of faith around the 5


### country to lessen the impacts of climate change 6



### through education, through taking action to 7


### reduce their own carbon footprints and through 8


### advocacy for more environmentally responsible 9


### policies at every level of government. 10



### We do this out of our conviction that we 11


### human beings have a divine calling and 12



### respo nsibility as caretakers of the creation, 13


### that beautiful, intricate, interdependent web of 14


### life and natural resources upon which all life 15


### including our own depends. It is a sacred 16


### calling to care for a sacred gift. All major 17


### religious traditions share thi s belief in our 18


### calling to be stewards of creation. 19



### To see ourselves not as the masters and 20



### commanders of the earth, but as part of a 21


### community of creatures who live an interdependent 22

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### existence. We are not outside or above the 1



### natural order, we are a par t of it. And 2


### everything we do affects that natural order. We 3


### cannot pretend that our activity on the earth has 4


### no impacts or consequence. 5


### Our scriptures attest that the wellbeing 6


### of creation is dependent on our treating it and 7



### each other with reverence and respect. And in 8


### turn, our own wellbeing as a human community is 9


### dependent on the wellbeing of the ecosphere of 10


### which we are a part. 11


### As people of faith, we believe that God 12


### speaks to us through creation and that scientific 13


### inquiry is one way that we discern what creation 14


### is saying to us. 15


### Now, concerns about climate change and 16



### intensive scientific research into its causes and 17


### potential effects have been going on for several 18


### decades. And we are now experiencing many of the 19


### impacts that scientists beg an alerting us to back 20



### then. 21


### Our climate is changing rapidly. There 22

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### is no getting around the facts. Carbon dioxide 1


### heats up in the presence of infrared radiation 2


### and we are significantly increasing the 3


### proportion of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. 4



### N ow, that proportion may be only .4 5


### percent, but by way of perspective the same 6


### proportion of alcohol in your blood is fatal. 7


### In addition atmospheric CO2 increases the 8


### acidity of oceans threatening the chemical 9


### balance which is so key to the ocean's ecosys tem. 10



### On behalf of the world's poor and 11


### vulnerable who are most susceptible to harm from 12


### the impacts of climate change and whom we also 13



### have a sacred duty to care for and protect, and 14


### on behalf of future generations of humans and all 15


### species, I urge you t o adopt the proposed rules 16


### as a first step toward bringing our emissions of 17


### greenhouse gases under control in order to help 18


### minimize the impacts of climate change. 19



### As Chief Seattle is reported to have said 20


### when the United States government proposed to 21



### pu rchase some of the last remaining Indian lands, 22

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### "This we know, all things are connected. The 1



### earth does not belong to us, we belong to the 2



### earth. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the 3



### children of earth. We did not weave the web of 4


### life, we are merely a strand in it, whatever we 5



### do to the web, we do to ourselves." 6



### Thank you. 7



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Bock. 8


### Okay. If I can have Brandon Cheshire and 9


### Nancy LeFacca come to the podium. 10


### Mr. Cheshire, you can go first. Thanks. 11



### MR. CHESHIRE: Hello and g ood afternoon. 12


### My name is Brandon Cheshire, B

- r

- a

- n

- d

- on C

- have

13



### e

- s

- h

- i

- r

- e. And I am the founder and director 14


### of production at Arizona

- based Center of the 15


### Solar. My industry has experienced tremendous 16


### growth due to plummeting solar panel costs, 17


### rising energy costs, and ideal irradiance levels. 18



### Center of the Solar currently employs 20 19


### people hailing from diverse backgrounds including 20


### the semiconductor industry, the electrical 21


### industry, ASU sustainability students, 22

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### environmental scientists, communicatio ns, NGOs as 1


### well as former military veterans. We've 2


### installed over 10 megawatts of solar in Arizona 3



### and continue to double in size and revenue 4


### annually since 2009. 5


### Last year the solar industry alone 6


### employed over 10,000 people in Arizona and 7



### 119,000 Am ericans nationally. 8


### I did not imagine I would ever become 9


### politically involved in environmental policy, 10


### activism of nonprofit work when I started a solar 11



### company. The more I learned about the carbon 12


### pollution issue, the more I felt compelled to act 13



### on behalf of those who could not or those who 14



### would not. 15


### I have participated or volunteered as an 16



### invested stakeholder for such environmental 17


### organizations as the Sierra Club's Beyond Coal 18


### Campaign, the Forward on Climate Rally, Outdoors 19


### Climate Reality Pr oject, Citizens Climate Lobby, 20



### the Great March for Climate Action and look 21


### forward to the People's Climate March in New York 22

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### for the U.N.'s historic summit on climate change 1


### in September. 2


### Upon my return to Arizona I plan to file 3


### paperwork to establish a 501(c)(3)

- (c)(4) called 4


### green communities whose intent will be to make 5


### solar power and energy efficiency more accessible 6



### to lower

- income communities in Arizona. 7


### I represent many Arizona voices and 8


### organizations today to voice public support in 9



### favor of th e president's Clean Power Plan. We do 10



### not have to choose between the health of our 11


### children and the health of our economy. Your 12



### greed gave me asthma and I deserve clean are are 13


### signs created by my children who have the right 14



### to clean air, clean water, an d clean energy. 15


### In this picture you see here of my 16


### children holding signs, the Arizona Republic 17


### article reported on that event and other media 18


### coverage. There's other issues on there. 19



### On the bottom, all of the drugs that my 20


### children take daily to live with their current 21


### level of 402 parts per million concentrate in the 22

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### environment, in the atmosphere. 1


### The Navajo coal generating station that 2


### is polluting the air at the Grand Canyon and 3


### deterring tourism. 4


### My favorite natural wilderness spot 5



### Fossil Cre ek is closed regularly due to drought 6


### and fire restrictions. And, again, for monsoon 7


### seasons that cause torrential downpours and 8


### potential flash floods. Ironically, this is also 9


### memorialized on my son's first protest. 10



### Until we value the trees for their 11


### ability to convert pollution to oxygen more than 12



### we value the lumber they produce, my ten

- year

- old 13



### son, Jackson, will continue to suffer with the 14


### effects of childhood asthma and along with his 15



### seven

- year

- old brother, Keegan, with severe 16


### allergies. 17



### The gre ed of a few should not surpass the 18


### needs of all. There is a coal industry. There 19


### is also a tobacco industry, both do exist, both 20


### are harmful and both are potentially deadly 21


### things that society would be far healthier 22

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### without. 1


### Our climate is observably ch anging, the 2


### science is clear, and we are a major contributor 3



### to this climate. 4


### Science tells us that roughly 80 percent 5


### of the fossil fuel reserves need to stay on the 6


### ground for us to maintain a habitable planet for 7


### human beings. Whether or not one agree s with 8


### climate change, there is not a downside to 9


### healthy clean air, water, soil, forest, rivers, 10



### lakes, and wildlife. 11



### Winston Churchill said, "The truth is 12



### incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance 13


### may deride it, but in the end there it it, 14



### tru th." The truth is that there are more than 15



### enough free clean energy resources and renewable 16


### energies that we can meet our energy needs many 17


### times over without poisoning the air and water 18



### around us. 19


### The clean power plant is th e catalyst to 20



### shift towards sustainable deployment of renewable 21


### energies. We will get the power we need and a 22

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### better world in the process. We also free 1


### ourselves from relying on energy sources outside 2


### the U.S. from nations that may be hostile to us. 3



### We possess the technology now to do the 4


### right thing now and that is exactly the reason I 5



### support the EPA, the clean power plan and the 6


### future that considered intergenerational justice 7


### on a finite planet. We all place ourselves in 8


### danger to one degree or another every time we 9



### stand up, but we place our children and our 10


### grandchildren in even greater danger when we 11



### don't. 12



### Thank you. 13


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Cheshire. 14


### It is a little after ten and our building 15


### is already at capacity. So I wanted to make an 16



### announcement for those fol ks who can leave and 17


### allow others the opportunity to come listen and 18


### hear would greatly be appreciated. In the spirit 19


### of cooperation and fairness we want to try and 20


### allow everyone the opportunity to come in and be 21


### a part of the proceedings today. Thank y ou. 22

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### There's also room in the overflow. 1



### There's a little bit more room in the overflow 2


### rooms for those who are standing. 3



### One second. 4



### (Pause.) 5



### MS. SUTIN: Okay. Ms. LaPlacca, go 6



### ahead. 7


### MS. LaPLACCA: Hi, my name is Nancy 8



### LaPlacca and I'm a regulato ry consultant and I've 9


### spent about the past ten years at the Public 10


### Utilities Commission in one way or another 11


### working for clean energy. 12


### My first experience was in 2006 and '07 13


### when along with my colleague Leslie Blustrom we 14


### filed to stop Xcel Energy fro m building a so

15


### called "clean coal plant" which would have been a 16


### $1.3 billion boondoggle. Leslie and I went up 17


### against Xcel Energy, the fourth largest utility 18


### in the country just as citizens and after about 19



### six months Xcel withdrew their plan. And I'm 20



### s ure they did. I'm sure they're glad they did 21



### because really these clean coal plants don't work 22

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### as advertized, they're totally uneconomic. 1


### And the reason I bring that up is because 2


### after ten years in the regulatory arena, four 3


### years as a policy advisor to an elected 4



### commissioner, Paul Newman, in Arizona who was 5


### defeated by fossil fuel and Alec money in the 6


### last election. What I see is a regulatory system 7


### that is not responsive. What I see is lots of 8


### hardworking, wonderful people at the EPA coming 9


### up with great rules. And I see a culture in 10


### crisis where we're propping up an old, dead, 11


### industry that should be put to bed. 12


### And I'd like to say a few things that 13


### really are meaningful. Every year the coal 14


### industry buys $40 billion worth of coal, that's 15



### 4

- 0 billion, 40 billion. They turn that $40 16


### billion worth of raw coal into $160 billion worth 17


### of electricity that they sell for roughly a 10 18


### percent profit. That $160 billion worth of coal

19



### fired electric ity does $530 billion worth of 20



### damage every year. 21



### So l et's go through the numbers again; 40 22

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### billion in coal, it becomes 160 billion in 1


### electricity that does $530 billion worth of 2



### damages. 3


### My first grandchild was born a few months 4


### ago. I am worried because what the International 5


### Energy Agency says is that by 2030s the planet 6


### will be 3.6 degrees centigrade hotter. Life on 7


### earth is not compatible with anything over three 8


### degrees centigrade. That's 2035 when she'll be 9



### in her

-- far too young to be looking at a 10


### decimated planet. 11


### The benefits of coal complianc e are at 12



### least seven to 30 times the cost, as I'm sure all 13



### you EPA are well aware of. We must change. And 14


### what I've seen is that we have a public utility 15


### structure that basically kowtows to the utility 16


### industry. Why? Cha

- ching, cha

- ching. 17



### It will be no surprise to anyone who has 18


### ever been involve in politics that money rules. 19


### And I tell people that when you're a utility, the 20


### first thing you do is own the governor, then you 21


### own the legislature, and because the governor 22

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### pretty much picks the commissio ners, you pretty 1



### much own the commission. So here we have a 2



### country

-- let me give you a couple of numbers 3



### around the country to show you how

-- just how 4



### sad it is. 5


### Sunny, Arizona, where I lived for 25 6


### years, hiked the canyons, hiked Fossil Creek, 7



### some o f my fondest memories are Fossil Creek 8


### which is drying up, 3.2 percent solar and 50 9


### percent coal. Let me repeat, Arizona, 3.2 10



### percent solar and 50 percent coal. Why? Because 11


### it's not sunny, because solar doesn't pay off? 12


### No, it's because it's a rigged system. 13


### Here in Sunny

-- here in beautiful Colorado we're 14



### what, 1/2 percent solar. You know, Xcel Energy 15


### spends millions of dollars to try to defeat the 16


### amendments 37 and now they want to own wind. 17


### Why? Because wind saves money. 18


### We have practically no solar hot water in 19


### this entire country. This entire country? What 20


### are we doing? We're fracking. 21


### Randy Udall, bless his soul, may he rest 22

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### in peace, I worked for his father, Moe, may Randy 1


### rest in peace. He used to say, that if we wanted 2



### to do all the fracked gas that these guys want to 3


### do, we'd have to drill 50,000 wells a year, 4



### 50,000. 5


### And as one of my witnesses told me, it's 6



### a scam. It's a land and a stock scam. Where the 7


### decline rates on the well are so high the 8


### production costs are so high and the commodity 9


### costs, gas at four or five bucks a million BTU is 10


### so low that they're making money on the stock and 11


### the land deals. And what are they going to leave 12


### us with, dirty air, dirty water, contaminated 13


### ground water, plummeting housing values. 14


### Do you know what housing values are doing 15


### right now in Arizona, my friend

-- my poor friend 16


### Brenda, why, because they refused to recognize 17


### the drought is going to kill half their water 18


### supply. The Colorado River is going down. 19


### Anyway, I thank you kin dly for listening 20



### to me and I hope and I pray that for the sake of 21


### everyone in here's children and grandchildren we 22

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### have the good sense to do what we should do. 1



### So thank you. 2



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. LaPlacca. 3



### You can all have a seat, thank you. 4



### Oka y. If I could have Sean Lamb, Anna 5



### G i ovinetto, sorry if I'm getting that wrong, John 6


### Shultzbarger, and Alan Apt, if you could all come 7


### up and sit by the podium. Okay. Mr. Lamb and 8



### Ms. G i ovinetto, if you could stand up and Mr. 9


### Lamb, you'll go first. 10



### MR . LAMB: Okay. So thank you for 11


### hearing my testimony today. I basically came in 12


### to give a different perspective, which is my own 13


### perspective in the wind industry. So I'm a 14


### former telecom engineer and before that I was 15


### actually an astrophysicist so I kno w a lot about 16


### the climate change signs. 17


### But in the last seven years I've been in 18


### the wind industry and I've worked for major 19


### companies like General Electric and Nordex. 20


### I just want to give a perspective that 21


### basically spells out jobs. So my current rol e is 22

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### a program director for the wind energy program at 1



### Ecotech Institute which is a for

- profit college 2



### in A ro ura, Colorado. We've graduated probably 3



### about 580, roughly 550 students. We've placed 4


### over 80 percent of those students in jobs in the 5



### renewable energy industry. 6



### I get to see these students face to face 7


### when they come and their excitement. We're a 8


### destination school, so we get students from all 9


### over the country, moving to Colorado just to go 10


### to school here. And then they're willing to pick 11



### up an d move out of Colorado and go over the four 12


### corners of the country to work in wind, solar, 13


### energy efficiency jobs. And so I'm kind of 14


### marinated in that environment of not only green, 15


### but just the excitement level of a renewable 16


### energy jobs. And so I came here basically to 17


### give my perspective which is also international. 18



### I worked for a German company, I worked for a 19


### Danish company, you know, in Europe the 20


### perspective for wind and renewable energy is 21


### completely different than the United States. 22

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### It's very w ell accepted. It's a point of pride 1



### because the technology advancements have moved us 2


### to a different level of creating green electrons. 3



### So electrons that don't have an associated 4


### poisoning component, to use that blunt term. 5



### I also want to talk a little bit about my 6


### own background personally is I have three kids, 7



### and, you know, about 15 years ago when my son was 8



### born, I lived in Atlanta and there was an EPA 9


### moratorium on pollution control in Atlanta at 10


### that time to create growth in the Atlanta metro 11



### and t hat area. But what it did is it caused 12


### horrible smog problems and horrible pollution 13


### problems in metro Atlanta that basically they 14



### would tell us for two weeks, three weeks out of 15


### the year, you know, small children shouldn't even 16


### go outside. And I thought that was ridiculous 17


### and that's one of the things that allowed me to 18


### leave engineering and go to solar first and then 19



### wind later. 20


### But as my colleague is going to describe 21


### in a minute, the different jobs that have been 22

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### created in Colorado and throughout the country, I 1


### just wanted to echo the excitement and the 2


### feeling from our students and me being an 3


### instructor and being kind of

-- like I said, 4



### marinated in the culture and it is real and the 5


### jobs are real. And I just wanted to express that 6



### view. Thank you for listening. 7



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Lamb. 8


### Ms. GIovinetto, am I saying it right. 9



### MS. GIOVINETTO: Geovinetto, so that's 10


### spelled G as in George i

- o

- v as in Victor, i

- n

- e

11



### t

- t

- o. 12


### So, good morning, my name is Ann 13


### Giovinetto and I'm vice president of corporate 14


### affairs for Renewable Energy Systems. We are 15


### headquartered in Bloomfield, Colorado. 16



### We employ more than 300 full

- time 17


### professionals and we are engaged in the 18


### development and construction of utility scale 19


### wind, solar transmission, and energy storage 20


### projects across North America. We are part of 21


### the RES Group and leading international renewable 22

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### energy developer. 1



### We support the EPA's clean power plan and 2



### will contribute to the detailed written comments 3


### submitted by the Wind Energy Trade Asso ciation to 4



### OEM. 5


### In my comments this morning, I will 6


### highlight some key points that we think are 7


### particularly helpful and identify a way in which 8


### the draft plan can be improved. 9



### The U.S. electricity accounts for about 10


### 40 percent of our national carbon emissions. 11


### That means it's a good place to look for ways to 12


### cost effectively reduce carbon, and wind energy 13


### offers a great solution. 14


### After energy efficiency on

- shore wind 15


### energy is the cheapest, fastest way to reduce the 16


### carbon intensity of our nation' s energy portfolio 17


### and it benefits the economy in the process. For 18


### this reason we are encouraged that the draft plan 19


### recognizes state clean energy programs and the 20


### use of renewable energy and energy efficiency as 21


### compliance mechanisms. 22

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### We also like tha t the draft plan has 1


### interim targets to encourage states to meet their 2


### emission reduction requirements and that states 3


### have the ability to work together on regional 4


### approaches to reduce the carbon which may prove 5


### to be the most cost effective approach. 6



### H owever, we think the draft plan should 7


### be more ambitious in terms of setting targets and 8



### dates for reductions in carbon emissions. 9


### We see a significant missed opportunity 10


### to fully harvest the tremendous benefits 11


### available to increased deployment of wind e nergy. 12


### Wind energy is widely available, 13


### affordable, and reliable. And it's already 14


### providing meaningful carbon reductions. 15


### I 2013 alone, U.S. wind energy avoided 16


### carbon emissions equivalent to taking 20 million 17


### cars off the road. In fact, the 61 giga watts of 18


### wind energy installed nationwide provide the same 19


### amount of electricity as 53 average coal plants 20



### but with no carbon emissions. 21


### Perhaps most importantly the industry has 22

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### shown that we can install a lot of wind capacity 1



### in a short amount of time. Since the end of 2


### 2005, on average, the U.S. has doubled its wind 3


### energy capacity every 36 months, including a 4


### record 13 gigawatts in 2012. 5



### We currently get about 4 percent of our 6


### electricity from wind energy nationwide. Later t 7


### his year the Department o f Energy will release an 8


### updated version of its wind vision report which 9


### provides a roadmap for getting to 35 percent wind 10


### energy by 2050. It reports preliminary findings 11


### which are posted on the DOE website indicate that 12



### 35 percent by 2050 would reduce el ectric sector 13


### carbon emissions by 26 percent. That would avoid 14


### $520 billion in damages from climate change, save 15


### $16 to 103 billion in public health and 16



### environmental costs and save consumers about 3 17


### percent on their electricity costs. 18



### In summary, 35 pe rcent wind energy by 19



### 2050 is ambitious, but achievable. And will 20


### yield significant climate, economic, health and 21



### environmental benefits. 22

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### The EPA's final plan should take this 1


### increase in its carbon emission reduction targets 2



### for 2030 to reflect wind ener gy potential 3


### contributions documented by DOE. 4



### In conclusion, I commend the EPA for its 5



### draft clean power plan. I urge you to be bold 6


### and set ambitious targets for responding to the 7


### global climate crisis. If we don't take decisive 8



### action now, we are sett ing ourselves up for a 9


### future with threatened food production, increased 10


### risk of violent conflict and deadly disease, 11


### water shortages and human suffering on a massive 12


### scale. All of which will have huge economic 13



### class as well. 14



### The United States didn't s ingle

- handedly 15


### create the global climate crisis and we can't 16


### single

- handedly reverse it either. But as a 17


### nation, we must stand up and take a leadership 18


### role in addressing it and the clean power plan is 19


### a significant step forward. 20



### Thank you for the opport unity. 21


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Giovinetto. 22

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### Mr. Shutlzbarager and Alan Apt, please if 1


### you could come to the podium, and Mr. 2



### Shult za barger, you'll go first. 3


### MR. SHULTZABARGER: Okay. Hi, thanks for 4


### having me here today. My name is John 5



### Shultzabarger , S

- h

- u

- l

- t

- z

- a

- b

- a

- r

- g

- e

- r, and 6



### that's John with an H. 7



### I am a director of d e velopmen t with EDF 8


### Renewable Energy and I'm based here in Denver. 9


### EDF Renewable Energy is a renewable 10


### energy development and operations company 11



### dedicated in its efforts to creat e the most 12


### efficiency renewable energy projects possible. 13


### We have more than 25 years of expertise in the 14


### renewable energy and we have a portfolio of over 15


### 5,900 megawatts of developed projects and 2800 16


### megawatts of installed capacity. We specialize 17



### here i n North America in wind and solar voltaic 18


### with presence in other forms of renewable energy 19


### such as biogas, biomass, hydro, marine energy and 20


### storage solutions. 21



### EDF Renewable Energy employs nearly a 22

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### thousand people in North America including over 1



### 800 here in the United States. 2


### As the leading provider of third

- party 3


### operations and maintenance services to the 4


### renewable energy industry in North America, our 5



### team services over 60 to 100 turbines and over 6


### two million solar panels which combined generate 7



### over 8,000 megawatts of electricity. 8


### Globally, EDFRE is part of the EDF group 9



### which has over 139,000 megawatts of generating 10


### capacity worldwide. The output of which is 11



### nearly 85 percent carbon free

-- carbon emissions 12



### free. 13


### Today I'm also here representing the 14


### American Wind Energy Association, AWEA . AWEA is 15


### the national trade organization for the U.S. wind 16


### industry with thousands of member and wind policy 17


### advocates. AWEA promotes wind energy as a clean 18


### source of electricity with virtually no air 19



### emissions of any sort or water use. Given the 20


### threat to public health and welfare posed by 21


### increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases as 22

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### documented by the EPA, the National Academy of 1



### Sciences, and others we commend the EPA for it's 2



### draft clean power plant and to reduce carbon 3



### emissions. 4


### The EPA proposal will help move our 5



### nation toward a cleaner, more stable environment 6


### for future generations while still supplying the 7


### reliable, affordable power needed for economic 8



### growth. 9


### The EPA draft is generally well thoug ht 10


### out in our opinion. In particular we support 11


### incorporating the role played by zero emitting 12


### renewable energy and setting the state carbon 13


### reduction targets and allowing renewable energy 14


### as compliance option to help meet those targets. 15



### The inclusion of interim targets helps ensure 16


### safety of their carbon reduction requirements in 17


### a timely manner and stays on track and the 18


### endorsement of programs like state renewable 19


### electricity standards as compliant also helps. 20


### We also appreciate the allowance for mult i

- state 21


### opportunities for reducing carbon emissions. 22

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### While we strongly support the role, we 1


### believe the EPA's assumptions related to 2


### renewable energy are very conservative relative 3


### to the amount of timely and cost

- effective 4


### reductions truly available from renewable sources 5


### and that the final rule can and should require 6


### emissions reductions that could go further and 7


### faster than proposed in the draft rule. 8


### The wind energy industry is already 9


### producing significant carbon emissions reductions 10


### while lowering costs to consumers and benefitting 11


### the economy. The current fleet of wind turbines, 12


### for example, reduced carbon emissions in 2013 by 13


### nearly 127 million tons, the equivalent of 14


### reducing power sector emissions by more than 5 15



### percent when compared to 2011. 16


### Wind energy also conserves water and 17



### reduces emissions of other harmful substances 18


### like nitrogen oxide, mercury, and sulfur dioxide. 19


### Eleven states are already achieving 20


### carbon emission reductions of 10 percent or more 21


### due to the use of wind energy alone with three 22

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### additional states just under 10 percent. 1


### In terms of economic development, the 2


### U.S. wind industry provides significant 3



### contributions. It has attracted over 15 billion 4


### annually in investment into U.S. communities over 5


### the past five years. It supports more than 6


### 50,000 U.S. jobs. There are more than 550 7


### manufacturing facilities spread across the 44 8


### states supplying the industry. 9


### The wind industry also supports local 10



### businesses, schools, communities, and other 11


### services through its activities and investments. 12


### We know in particular that here in 13


### Colorado, the state's largest electric utility to 14


### sell energy has utilized significant amounts of 15


### solar and wind generation as critical components 16


### of a least cost portfolio for rate payers. 17



### Wind ener gy is a widely available, 18


### affordable, reliable and rapidly scalable source 19



### of carbon emission reductions and avoidance

. 20


### Wind energy can and should play an even larger 21


### role going forward in terms of carbon emission 22

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### reductions. 1


### The National Renewable Energ y Laboratory 2


### has calculated with 20 percent wind energy in the 3



### Eastern U.S. would produce power sector carbon 4


### emissions by 25 percent. And 30 percent of 5


### energy could cut emissions by up to 37 percent. 6



### The proposed EPA 111(d) rules are an 7



### excellent start toward making the nation's carbon 8


### reduction rules. The importance of their 9


### adoption after taking public input into account, 10



### cannot be overstated. We also believe that the 11



### EPA 111(d) rules would be most successful when 12


### accompanied by other elements of a long

- term 13


### national energy policy that recognizes the value 14


### of technologies with no air emissions including 15



### greenhouse gases and use no water. 16


### We will be submitting written comments in 17


### the draft rule prior to the October deadline. 18


### Thanks again for the o pportunity to speak 19



### here. 20



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. Mr. Apt. 21


### MR. APT: Well, thank you for this 22

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### opportunity. My name is Alan Apt, spelled A

- p

- t. 1


### I'm a former Port City council member. In 1997 2


### we adopted the first municipal wind program which 3



### was tremend ously successful in spite of the fact 4


### that we asked customers of the utility to pay an 5


### additional 20 percent for that wind power. The 6


### power authority just recently purchased another 7


### 32 megawatts of wind, so I heartily agree that 8


### wind is one of the energie s of the future. 9


### The state of Colorado ahs done a good job 10


### of cutting emissions with renewable energy 11



### standards that have created thousands of clean 12


### energy jobs in the solar and wind industry. 13


### Unfortunately, we've still get over 60 percent of 14



### our energy from burning coal. 15


### Strong regulation of greenhouse gas is 16


### long overdue, badly needed, to send a signal to 17


### the utilities that coal is a 19th century 18



### technology that has to be phased out completely 19



### over time. I have great empathy for those 20


### working the co al industry. Though I've lived in 21


### Colorado for 40 years, I'm a Pennsylvania native 22

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### and my grandfather died at age 56 from black lung 1



### disease. 2



### We need to retrain miners in renewable 3


### energy jobs that won't threaten their health and 4


### our health. Generating energy with wind and 5


### solar would create far more jobs than the coal 6


### industry ever has. The negative effects of coal 7


### are significant, not only to individual miners, 8



### but as you know, anyone who suffers from asthma 9


### nationwide. Asthma among children is at a lmost 10


### epidemic levels. In part, because of the 11


### pollution from coal

- burning power plants. 12


### There is no such thing as clean coal. 13


### All coal burning, even with current state

- of

- the

14


### art pollution controls dumps trillions of tons of 15


### pollutants into the atmosp here, something you are 16



### well aware of, and this is the air that we are 17


### breathing. 18


### We have to stop using the atmosphere as a 19


### free dump. Regulations that require Colorado to 20



### further reduce our emissions are needed. We lack 21


### the political will to do as much on our own. 22

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### Greenhouse gases are already having a 1


### deleterious and profound effect on our local and 2


### global climate. Scientists estimate the the 3


### melting ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland 4


### will cause sea levels to rise, not by six to 12 5



### inches, but as you know, by three to ten feet by 6



### next century. 7


### Storms are becoming more violent and 8


### unpredictable worldwide and drought and wild 9


### fires not only here in Colorado, but even in 10


### states like Oregon and Washington. We cannot 11


### gamble with our safety or the sa fety of our 12


### children and grandchildren any longer. Not 13


### regulating greenhouse gases is reckless at best. 14


### The overall effects of climate change are 15


### unpredictable and not worth the risk. 16


### Fortunately renewable wind and solar energy are 17


### now very cost effecti ve and offer economical and 18


### reliable alternatives to fossil fuels cutting 19


### greenhouse gas emissions by 70 percent, not 30 20


### percent, will shift our energy production to 21



### renewable energy. Please 70 percent. 22

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### Colorado's renewable energy standards 1



### have not and will not lead to major increases in 2


### energy rates. They will lead to gradually 3


### increasing rates as will any energy source 4


### including coal and natural gas. 5


### The price of coal has significantly 6



### increased. If the true cost of the environmental 7



### damage coal do es were included in its price, it 8


### would be far more expensive than any form of 9


### energy. Coal plants also consume millions of 10


### gallons of water. This is not sustainable in a 11


### high mountain desert. 12



### I would like to thank the EPA and the 13



### Obama administration for this initiative since 14



### Congress refuses to act. I hope Colorado and the 15


### EPA can work together on more significant 16


### reductions on emissions of all kinds especially 17


### greenhouse gas. It is time to close outdated 18


### coal plants, not build anymore anywhere and shift 19



### away from 19th century technology to 21st century 20


### solutions that will protect our climate and 21


### health and provide millions of clean energy jobs. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. Mr. Apt, were you 2


### representing

-- were you just testifying for 3



### your self, or were you representing an 4


### organization? 5


### MR. APT: Testifying for myself. 6



### MS. SUTIN: Okay. Great. Thank you. 7



### You can all be seated. 8


### We're waiting for others to come that 9


### were scheduled to testify. So we will pause for 10



### a few minutes. As so on as those people arrive, 11


### we'll start up again. 12



### (Pause.) 13


### MS. SUTIN: I have one more quick 14



### announcement. If there's anyone here who wants 15


### to speak that either thought they couldn't or 16


### haven't yet, if you want to check with the 17


### registration desk, there are several people that 18


### didn't show. And so we have some extra spots. 19


### So if you would like to speak, just check in with 20


### the registration desk and they will help you out. 21



### (Brief recess taken at 11:34 a.m.) 22

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### (Record resumes at 11:55 a.m.) 1



### MS. SUTIN: Ok ay. We're going to get 2


### started again. I just want to make sure we have 3


### our first three speakers. Do we have Frank 4


### Swayne, Ryan VanWest, and Julie M oil , if you 5


### could all come up and sit in the chair. 6


### Mr. Swayne, if you would like to come up? 7



### MR. SWAYNE : Sure. Good morning, my name 8


### is Frank Swayne and I'm the energy advocate with 9


### Conservation Colorado, the state's largest 10


### environmental advocacy group that is member

- based 11



### here in the centennial state. 12


### Thank you so much for providing 13


### opportunity to com ment on this monumental effort 14


### to tackle carbon pollution. The EPA's clean 15


### power plan will for the first time in U.S. 16


### history, and not a moment too soon, place 17


### safeguards on carbon pollution from power plants. 18


### It is a crucial step forward in the fight 19



### ag ainst climate change. As the number one source 20


### of greenhouse gases in the U.S., it is due time 21


### that we as a nation start taking real action to 22

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### reduce carbon pollution from the power sector. 1


### This will clean our air, fight climate 2



### change, and enhance the s tate and national 3


### economy. Communities across Colorado are already 4


### seeing and feeling the impacts of climate change 5



### from increased health risks like asthma attacks 6


### and respiratory disease to devastating fires and 7



### floods. 8


### Although we have protections aga inst 9


### mercury, soot and other air toxins, there are no 10


### limits on air pollution fro power plants, even 11


### though they are the single biggest source in the 12



### United States. 13


### It was not long ago, growing up on the 14



### east coast that I actually heard about the Denver 15



### brown cloud. No, at 12 years old I was not an 16


### air pollution aficionado, but the brown cloud was 17


### really that bad. I heard about it, it garnered 18



### national news attention. 19


### But, instead of denying we had a problem, 20



### Coloradans rose to the challenge, that's t he 21


### Colorado way. With the help of landmark laws 22

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### like the U.S. Clean Air Act Coloradans pulled up 1


### their sleeves and worked together to reduce our 2


### brown cloud's air pollution and once again opened 3


### up our Rocky Mountain blue skies. 4


### Today we face similar cha llenges, but our 5


### need to work together and to get to work is the 6



### same. After our brown cloud success other parts 7


### of our air quality has worsened in Colorado. 8


### This is from not only more unfettered oil and gas 9


### development in our state and transportation 10



### so urces, but it's made worse by more carbon, more 11


### pollution being dumped into our atmosphere. 12


### The good news in Colorado we have started 13


### to take steps to do our part nationally to reduce 14


### carbon pollution and greenhouse gases in our air. 15



### Ten years ago our s tate became the first in the 16


### nation where the voters decided to get a portion 17


### of their electricity from renewable sources, the 18



### wind and the sun. 19


### Since then the state has three separate 20


### times increased and expanded that renewable 21



### energy standard, transfer red our grid's energy 22

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### mix to cleaner fuel sources and advanced some of 1


### the strongest energy saving measures in the west. 2



### What have all those nation

- leading 3


### investments and policies done to Colorado? We 4



### have one of the nation's most vibrant economies. 5



### Ut ility prices are below the national average in 6


### the ever burgeoning clean tech sector that has 7


### contributed $15.5 billion to the Colorado economy 8



### and employs over 22,000 people. 9


### Colorado has led the way on reducing 10


### carbon pollution in a collaborative, prac tical 11


### way because it is the right thing to do, and, 12


### again it is the Colorado way. 13


### We have a history of doing what is right 14


### when it comes to our families, our economy, and 15



### our environment. We have shown other states in 16


### the nation how a combination of poli cies and 17



### investments and cleaner resources can cost 18


### effectively reduce carbon pollution while 19


### expanding our economy and protecting public 20



### health. 21


### With all that said, the EPA clean power 22

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### plan enables Colorado to build off our successful 1



### and proven foundat ion of reducing carbon. 2


### Reducing carbon pollution is an opportunity to 3


### raise the floor on all that we have already 4


### accomplished. This is a step towards leaving 5


### this earth a better place for our future 6


### generations and finally, that's the right thing 7



### to do

. 8



### Thank you so much. 9



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Swayne. 10



### Mr. Van West. 11


### MR. VAN WEST: Hello. EPA. Greetings 12



### from western Colorado. I'm Ryan Van West, 13


### President of Western Colorado Congress, a 14


### grassroots alliance of community groups based on 15



### Grand Jun ction, Colorado. Many of our 1,500 16


### members live with uranium, oil, and gas, coal, 17


### oil shale, and more as a daily menu of impacts 18



### and concerns. 19



### Our alliance is an affiliate of Western 20


### Organization of Resource Councils and I 21


### appreciate the opportunity fo r a few moments of 22

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### your time. First and foremost Western Colorado 1


### Congress and its members give a huge thanks to 2


### the Environment Protection Agency for its clean 3


### power plan proposal. As do millions of living 4



### and unborn. 5


### This is an excellent step in the 6



### d irection conservation groups find rewarding for 7


### their hard work and hopes. Not to appear 8


### ungrateful, however, considering the evermore 9


### dire signs reports, we wish the plan would be 10



### even more robust. 11


### Notwithstanding, the EPA's is to be 12



### commended for the enormous amount of work it has 13



### taken to craft these proposed rules. Not only 14


### with the individual states and/or regions would 15


### be able to reasonably achieve on their own to 16


### technically comply, but also what we could hope 17


### to be achieved given the expected w inds of 18


### opposition. 19


### Everywhere across America, local 20


### communities are under assault from the energy 21


### extractive industry and having to live with 22

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### health impacts, risk management and safety 1


### concerns, welfare issues created by depreciated 2



### property values and more. 3


### The climate change science is clear and 4


### it has been for a number of years and 5


### increasingly so daily that any delay on reducing 6


### anthropogenic carbon dioxide and methane into 7


### that atmosphere will only compromise the quality 8



### of life to us and our de scendents. Climate 9


### change is real, it has already harmed humans and 10


### earth biosphere systems and is today threatening 11


### the lives and livelihood of millions of people. 12


### It is becoming more and more apparent as 13


### it already has for many of our plants
, flora an d 14



### fauna brethren, life sustaining conditions as we 15


### now know them would only become more challenging 16


### the longer heat trapping pollutants are released 17


### into the atmosphere. 18


### Understanding that the United States is 19


### number one in per capita energy consumption, 20


### might it not be a moral and practical obligation 21


### for our nation to propose steps to mitigate our 22

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### fossil fuel footprint. 1


### As a practical gesture to other 2


### countries, the clean power plan would demonstrate 3


### a much stronger commitment than our country has 4


### in p revious years to curb our carbon emissions. 5


### As daunting as it may seem today, Western 6


### Colorado Congress remains sounds optimistic that 7


### implementation of the EPA Clean energy plan can 8


### be accomplished successfully by the proposed 9



### deadline, if not before. 10



### N ot only does the EPA recognize that a 11



### one

- size emissions reduction standard doesn't fit 12


### all states equally, it provides states the means 13


### with which to design their individual solutions. 14


### Opponents to this plan are saying, the 15



### same time

- worn arguments of Ar mageddon, costs, 16


### job losses, and other irreparable economic 17


### impacts. These arguments were discredited before 18


### and will be again. 19


### This plan is a necessary step for the 20


### improvement of public health and charts a viable 21


### pathway to continued economic vitality. At our 22

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### state level through the leadership from the 1


### governor's office, industry, and the conservation 2


### community Colorado has recently enacted this 3


### nation's most comprehensive and stringent rules 4


### for capturing fugitive methane and other volatile 5


### organic co mpounds from oil and gas operations. 6


### For the clean power plan to achieve its full 7


### potential, this is an absolutely essential piece 8



### to the puzzle. 9



### At a local level on Colorado's western 10



### slope, Holy Cross Energy saw and took the 11


### opportunity to produce en ergy from methane being 12


### vented from coal mines in the north fork valley. 13



### These kind of inventive, collaborative 14


### relationships is what will make possible meeting 15


### the clean power plans proposed emission standards 16


### and beyond. Inventive and visionary solutio ns 17


### have always been a part of our nation's creed. 18


### Instead of a corporate energy policy that is 19



### centered around business as usual, all of the 20



### above energy streams, and don't rock the boat, 21


### the final rule adopted by the EPA and the 22

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### subsequent plans to meet the standards adopted by 1



### the state should focus on the real solutions, 2


### energy efficiency and clean and renewable energy. 3


### It is praise worthy that the EPA's 4


### proposal is mindful of the need to push forward 5


### and point a direction for citizens, policymakers 6



### an d industry to engage in a conversation on how 7


### to step off the fossil fuel treadmill and truly 8


### embrace a 21 century energy policy that respects 9


### all living things. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. VanWest. 12



### Please, no applause. 13



### Ms. Moil. 14



### MS. MOIL: Good morning. My name is 15



### Jul ie Moil and I am a masters prepared register ed 16


### nurse. I currently practice as a staff nurse at 17


### an outpatient surgery center in Boulder, Colorado 18


### and I also serve as an outreach specialist for 19


### the Healthier Hospital's Initiati ve , a growing 20


### movement of over 1,000 hospitals and health 21


### systems in the U.S. and Canada which are 22

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### addressing sustainability by implementing best 1


### environmental practices. 2



### As a nurse, I swore an oath to care for 3


### my patients by protecting, restoring, and 4



### ad vocating for their health and well being. That 5


### is why I'm here today, and to support the EPA's 6


### clean power plan that will reduce carbon 7


### pollution from power plants and support renewable 8


### energy options. This proposal will substantially 9


### improve air quality and ultimately public health. 10


### Carbon pollution has direct and indirect 11


### adverse impacts on human health. Directly as we 12


### take in our 35 gallons of air via our 20 13


### respirations every day, we breath in the 14


### surrounding air and all that it contains. Today 15



### th at outside air contains over 400 carbon parts 16


### per million and other toxic air pollutants like 17


### nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxide, mercury, oozone, 18


### and particulate matter. All of which are known 19



### human hazards and are linked to such diseases as 20


### asthma, lung infe ctions and respiratory diseases 21


### as well as birth defects and neurological 22

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### disorders including diminished IQ. 1


### Children are most susceptible because 2


### their lungs are still developing and they often 3


### spend more time outdoors than adults. 4


### Indirectly carbon p ollution adversely 5


### affects human health because it is the primary 6


### contributing factor of global warming and climate 7



### change. 8


### In a 2010 letter to the president and 9



### members of Congress, over 85 health 10


### organizations, including the American Academy of 11



### Pediatr ics, the American Lung Association, the 12



### American Medical Association, the American Nurses 13



### Association, and the American Public Health 14


### Association, among many others, are on record 15


### stating, and I quote, "Climate change is a 16


### serious public health issue. As temperatures 17


### rise, more Americans will be exposed to 18



### conditions that can result in illness and death 19


### due to respiratory illness, heat and weather

20


### related stress, and disease carried by insects." 21


### These health issues are likely to have the 22

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### greatest impact o n our most vulnerable 1


### communities including children, older adults, and 2



### those with serious health conditions and the most 3


### economically disadvantaged. 4


### Carbon pollution is he public health 5


### threat of our time. However, currently there are 6



### no national limits on the amount of carbon 7


### pollution admitted into the atmosphere. The 8


### clean power plan would change that and is a good 9


### starting point because we all know you cannot 10



### manage what you cannot measure. 11



### And to that end I would like to share 12


### with you an idea a nd hope that was expressed by 13



### one of the lead authors of the U.S. Climate 14


### Assessment Report and that is that carbon parts 15


### per million as a statistic would become as 16


### popular, understood, and visible in our society 17



### as the New York Stock Exchange, Dow Jones 18



### I ndustrial Average, and the daily weather. Our 19


### scientists and researchers backed by the laws of 20


### math and physics inform us to the consequences 21



### of this road we are on in terms of unchecked 22

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### energy consumption and the resulting carbon 1


### pollution , a sicker, po orer, and more violent 2


### society. If we are to chart a different future, 3


### turning this tide begins with mitigating 4


### greenhouse gas emissions, namely carbon pollution 5


### from the burning of fossil fuels. 6


### Reducing carbon pollution will result in 7



### less illness and less days lost at work and 8


### school, less disability, fewer deaths, reduced 9


### hospitalizations, and other related healthcare 10


### costs which which all equate to a savings to our 11


### economy of over $1.3 trillion or 9.6 percent of 12



### GDP. 13



### Seventy

- two percent of Americ an voters 14


### support strong limits on carbon emissions. 15


### Health care providers amongst the most trusted of 16


### professionals endorse it, and it is time. 17


### Thank you very much for the opportunity 18



### to share comments. 19


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Moil. You all 20



### can hav e a seat. 21


### Okay. Next if we could have Kierra 22

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### Hatin, Jason Small, Chris Flannigan and Sarah 1


### Probst come up and sit in the chairs by the 2


### podia. 3


### All right. Kierra Hatin and Jason Small, 4


### if you can stand at the podium. Jason is not 5



### here. Go ahead, Ms. Hatin. 6


### MS. HATIN: Hello, my name is Kierra 7



### Hatin. I'm a resident here in Pueblo, Colorado. 8



### To understand why I'm here today you have to know 9


### a little bit of my personal history. 10



### M y personal history starts off knowing 11


### that my dad was always sick from , you know, first 12


### grade, I remember him slamming the car door, 13


### coming in the house and he would always play ball 14


### with me and that day was different. That day was 15


### so different. He was diagnosed with something 16


### called Alpha One Antitrypsin Deficiency. That is 17


### a disease that basically prevents your lungs from 18


### cleaning themselves out. 19


### So you know, 20 years later I still had 20


### my dad, thanks to great medical care and a double 21


### lung transplant and every imaginable strange and 22

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### unusual medical problem you could d eal with, with 1


### him being one of the early lung transplants. 2


### So we moved down the line and, you know, 3


### he's lucky enough, he got to see his 4


### granddaughter be born because I was a little too 5



### early. And that was pretty darn wonderful. And 6


### in 2008 passed awa y. I was 28 and my daughter 7


### was seven. So we lost this wonderful male figure 8


### in our family. And we lost it because his lungs 9


### couldn't clean out toxins that other people put 10



### into the environment. No matter what we did and 11



### no matter where we lived, we we re not safe. 12


### I am the recipient of that same traumatic 13


### abnormality. I look down the line and I know 14


### that I have exercise, and I eat ridiculously well 15


### to the point of being truly annoying at times, 16


### and the thing is, my daughter will have to say 17



### goodbye some day too and that's because 18



### regardless of what we do, we can't protect 19



### ourselves. 20


### So I am so proud that the EPA has decided 21


### to have this carbon plan because it's a step in 22

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### the right direction. It's not far enough, but 1


### thank goodness, it is a step i n the right 2



### direction. We loose that human cost all the 3


### time. And I found, you know, going back to my 4


### personal story is that my first professional job 5


### was working with a sheet metal manufacturer. And 6


### guess what they built? Coal

- fired power plants. 7



### I ha d no idea what I was getting into. I 8


### interviewed for a job, I desperately needed one 9



### to take care of my daughter and I got one. And I 10


### found out how regulations are not enforced. And 11


### I found out how things are not measured and I 12



### found out I was less safe than I even thought. 13


### So when I go to make decisions, I go to 14


### make decisions because I don't want my daughter 15


### to have to say this to her kids. And I don't 16


### want her kids to feel the same way. 17


### You know, genetics are a lousy thing. 18



### They really are. T hey are the biggest blessing 19


### in the world, and the biggest problem. So 20


### sometimes there are people that I didn't do 21


### anything to ask for this, but there are people 22

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### that make choices that harm me. They make 1


### choices that caused me to watch my father die a 2



### sl ow and painful death. And those are the 3



### reasons that I'm here. And I'm terrified to 4


### speak in front of you, so I'm still very sorry, 5


### but I hope that you understand the depth of this 6


### problem is that we keep forgetting

-- we talk 7


### about jobs, and we talk abo ut the environment, we 8


### have stopped talking about people. We have 9


### completely ceased that conversation. 10



### I was so glad to see a nurse here before 11



### me. But we have to have that conversation. 12


### People should always be first, not things, and 13



### not money, people . So if we forget that, we are 14


### doing it wrong. 15



### (Applause.) 16


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Hatin. 17



### Is Jason Small in the room? Mr. Small, 18


### if you could come up. You're next. 19



### MR. SMALL: Is that close enough? Can 20



### you hear me? 21



### MS. SUTIN: Yeah and please make sure you 22

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### speak into the microphone, folks in the back 1


### sometimes have a hard time hearing. So, thank 2



### you. 3



### MR. SMALL: Not a problem. Hello, my 4


### name is Jason Small. I'm here speaking on behalf 5



### of the Boiler Makers Local 11 out of East Helena, 6



### Monta na and also as a tribal member from that 7


### northern Cheyenne Indiana Reservation in 8



### southeastern Montana. 9


### My primary concern here is the fact that 10


### most of the jobs will be lost in my area and 11


### community if fees are set too stringent. The EPA 12



### reports that th e reduction of CO2 emissions under 13


### the clean power plan is equivalent to a 30 14


### percent cut from 2005 emissions. However, the 15


### EPA's proposed rules give no credits to states 16


### that already have reduced their CO2 emissions due 17



### to market

- driven forces such as in creased 18


### national gas use, the retirement of older coal 19


### generating plants, and the construction of new 20


### nuclear generation. 21



### Since 2005 CO2 emissions from all fossil 22

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### fuel plants have decreased by 13 percent. Many 1


### states highly dependent on coal

- based genera tion 2


### have already achieved significant emission 3



### reductions, but still face the additional burden 4


### of further reducing the CO2 emissions on the 5


### short timetable set by the EPA's proposed rule. 6


### We recognize that states will have 7


### flexibility in developing the measures to achieve 8


### the CO2 emission reduction goals called for by 9


### the green power plan. However, the stringency of 10


### state reduction goals will nonetheless be 11


### dictating how states regulate the generation and 12


### use of electricity. 13


### The EPA projects that the proposed CO2 14


### reductions would reduce U.S. coal production for 15


### lesser generation by 35 percent from 2009 levels 16


### by the year 2020. With the comparable reduction 17



### of goal

- based electric generation even larger 18


### regional coal production reductions are projected 19



### by 2020. For Apple Asher, that's a 63 percent 20


### reduction, and in the west 47 percent, which is 21


### fairly substantial. 22

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### The EPA also projects that this rule will 1


### cause the loss of 41 to 49 gigawatts of coal

2


### generated capacity by 2020. These are in 3



### addition t o the 92 gigawatts of coal capacity the 4


### EPA is already projecting will shut down between 5


### 2012 and 2020. Due in large part to compliance 6


### with the mercury rule which was passed in 2012. 7


### That was the mercury and air toxins rule. 8


### We believe that losing aro und 130 9


### gigawatts of base mode coal capacity nearly 40 10


### percent of the nation's coal generation fleet in 11



### 2012, raises serious concerns about the future 12


### reliability of our electric power supplies. 13


### Our reliability concerns will no doubt 14



### become even more urge nt as existing base load 15


### nuclear units begin to retire upon the expiration 16


### of their already extended NRC operating licenses. 17


### Our preliminary estimates of the job 18


### impacts of EPAs proposed clean rule indicate the 19


### potential loss of 52,000 permanent direct jo bs by 20


### 2020 in the utility, rail, and coal sectors due 21


### to power plant retirements and the loss of 22

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### 167,000 total direct and indirect jobs. These 1


### direct jobs are all highly skilled, high

- paying 2


### jobs. Typically in rural communities without 3


### opportunities for comparable employment these 4


### impacts do not consider any of the job losses 5


### associated with the closure of plants due to the 6



### M ATS rule and other factors. 7


### The EPA's proposal for increasing the 8


### dispatch of natural gas from combined recycle 9



### units in addition t o the 40 gigawatts of new 10


### natural gas combined cycle capacity that the EPA 11


### projects to come on line from 2020 to 2030 will 12


### lead to significant increases in natural gas 13


### prices, well above the EPA projections. 14


### These price increases will be further 15


### amplified by the LNG exports, independent 16


### analysis project that utility gas demand may rise 17



### three

- fold above the EPA's forecast. Consumers 18


### and energy industries will bear the brunt of 19


### these price increases. 20



### The Boilermakers, we have several 21



### recommendations about revisions to the clean 22

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### power plan. 1


### Number one, the plan should provide 2


### states with a credit for prior CO2 reductions as 3


### an option towards meeting a reasonable target for 4


### reducing CO2 emissions from the electric power 5



### sector. 6



### Number two, the EPA's comp liance time 7



### table is unrealistic and unachievable even with 8



### the multi

- year compliance averaging toward the 9



### interim and final targets. The initial reduction 10



### program should be delayed by several years to 11


### allow states and affected sources adequate time 12



### to pr epare and submit state plans and to 13


### structure and implement compliance strategies in 14



### the most flexible, least cost manner. 15



### MS. SUTIN: Mr. Small, I'm fossil fuel to 16


### have to ask you to wrap up, your five minutes is 17



### up. 18



### MR. SMALL: Oh, okay. 19


### Finally, we believe that the rule is a 20


### little premature since we do not know the extent 21


### to which other nations, particularly large 22

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### developing countries, will be willing to commit 1



### to a truly global program of greenhouse gas 2



### reductions. 3


### We can't get anything done just going 4


### alone and expect that our actions will have any 5


### meaningful climate impact on world economy that 6


### is using more coal and other fossil fuels every 7



### day. 8


### Developing nations already emit more CO2 9



### than advanced industrial nations and the 10



### Department of En ergy projects that their share of 11


### global emissions will grow steadily. 12



### Thank you. 13



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Small. 14


### Chris Flannigan and Sarah Probst if you 15


### could come to the podium. And Mr. Flannigan, you 16


### will go first. 17


### MR. FLANNIGAN: Good morning. My name is 18


### Chris Flannigan and I am here on behalf of Renew 19


### Missouri, a nonprofit advocacy group working to 20


### progress renewable energy and energy efficiency 21


### policies in Missouri. I am here today to have on 22

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### the record our official stance on the 1



### Environmenta l Protection Agency's recent proposed 2


### rule for its clean power plan. 3


### We agree with the EPA on the need for the 4


### United States to significantly cut carbon 5



### emissions and focus on clean air sources of 6


### energy. We applaud the president and the EPA for 7


### taking o wnership of this effort and leading the 8



### way. 9


### As stated in the recent Time Magazine 10


### article, the green revolution is here. The 11


### United States has already decreased its carbon 12


### emissions output by 17 percent of it's 2005 13


### levels in recent years. We are curr ently half 14


### way there to the president's intended goal of 30 15


### percent reduction by 2030. However, we also 16


### believe that the EPA's gold form, the state of 17


### Missouri, a 21 percent reduction from 2012 18


### levels, is easily achievable and should be more 19


### aggressive. 20


### Quick analysis reveals that if Missouri's 21


### largest utilities simply comply with the policies 22

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### already in place, Missouri would reach compliance 1


### with its goal by 2020 or soon after. This does 2


### not even take into account Missouri's municipal 3



### utilities and rura l electric cooperatives which 4


### are also very reliant on coal. 5


### A more stringent standard would have a 6


### greater chance of affecting significant change in 7


### Missouri's power profile. And it's not just 8


### nonprofits like ourselves who like to see this 9



### change. It's also small businesses in Missouri 10



### and across the nation. We hear from numerous 11


### opponents that this proposed rule will hurt small 12



### businesses and small business owners do not want 13



### these rules enacted. 14


### Small Business Majority, a national small 15



### business o rganization dedicated to solving the 16


### biggest problems that face small businesses today 17


### conduct numerous scientific polling on a variety 18



### of issues that affect small businesses. In their 19


### polling they have found that 52 percent of small 20


### businesses support th e EPA regulating carbon 21


### emissions from existing power plants that cause 22

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### climate change. This is something small business 1



### owners want, a more consistent renewable energy 2



### source for the future. 3


### Opponents of the rule will also state the 4



### United States is fo cused more on cheap energy. 5


### Renewable Missouri could not agree more. This is 6


### why we urge the EPA to ensure that its final rule 7


### maximizes the opportunity and incentives for 8


### states to comply by investing in energy 9


### efficiency. Energy efficiency is the chea pest 10



### investment utilities can make to meet demand and 11


### it also happens to be the lowest carbon output 12



### alternative available. 13



### First and foremost states should be 14


### capturing all cost effective energy efficiency 15


### before considering any other compliance option. 16


### In addition, although natural gas is 17


### currently a cheap form of electric generation is 18



### not a long

- term solution. Emerging technologies 19


### like wind and solar are rapidly decreasing in 20


### price and already employing thousands of 21


### Missourians. These technologies are improving 22

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### and with strategic investments to reach new 1



### economies of scale wind and solar will soon 2


### become the cheapest form of electric generation 3



### available. As a nation we should not waste this 4


### regulatory opportunity on technologies that will 5



### always be based on finite resources that emit 6


### large amounts of carbon into our atmosphere. 7


### Finally, renewable energy and energy 8


### efficiencies are the way of the future and the 9


### most cost effective long

- term way to reduce 10


### carbon emissions. It imperative for the U nited 11


### States to be a world leader in renewable energy 12


### and efficiency and not wait on anyone else. 13



### Thank you. 14


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Flannigan. 15


### Please no clapping. For those of you 16


### that have come in, we're asking people to not 17


### applaud and to listen quietly so that everyone 18


### feels comfortable speaking. Thank you. 19


### MS. PROBST: Good morning, my name is 20



### Sarah Probst, I am the executive director of the 21


### Interless Energy Alliance. We're a nonprofit 22

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### trade association that represents the nation's 1


### leading companies in the renewable energy 2


### industry bringing them together with the less 3


### advocacy community to extend markets for 4



### renewable energy. 5


### Interless works in six states including 6



### Colorado, also Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, 7


### and Wyoming. I traveled f or the hearing today 8



### from New Mexico. 9



### Interless strongly supports the EPA's 10


### draft rule for reducing carbon dioxide emissions 11


### from electric power plants under Section 111(d) 12


### of the Clean Air Act, the clean power plan. 13


### Renewables are big economic drivers. For 14


### example, the American Wind Energy Association's 15


### 2013 annual market report indicates that in the 16



### six states that Interless covers, the wind 17


### industry has invested over $9.5 billion by the 18



### end of 2013. And there are over 5,000 megawatts 19


### of wind capacit y deployed in these states. 20


### The solar industry is also a big jobs 21


### factor. The Solar Energy Industries Association 22

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### counts over 900 solar companies throughout the 1



### value chain in the six states that Interless 2



### covers. 3


### The EPA proposal will move the United 4



### States toward a cleaner, more stable environment 5


### while modernizing the electric grid and still 6


### supplying the reliable, affordable power needed 7


### for economic growth. It also provides states the 8


### flexibility that they need to reduce carbon 9



### dioxide emissions from power plants. 10


### In particular, in the draft rule 11


### Interless supports incorporating the role played 12


### by zero emitting renewable energy. In setting 13


### the carbon dioxide reduction standards it targets 14


### the inclusion of interim targets to help states 15



### meet thei r emission reduction requirements, 16


### allowing renewable energy and energy efficiency 17


### as compliance options, the endorsement of 18


### programs like state renewable electricity 19


### standards as compliance options and allowing 20


### multistate opportunities for reducing emissi ons. 21


### We strongly standpoint the EPA's clean 22

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### power plan and the final rule should build on 1



### this solid foundation in the draft. The EPA's 2


### assumptions in the draft rule related to 3


### renewable energy significant underestimate the 4


### amount of timely and cost

- effe ctive reductions 5



### available from these sources. The final rule can 6


### and should require emissions reductions that go 7



### further faster than those in the draft rule. 8


### Relatedly, the final rule should allow 9


### periodic review of targets to reflect 10


### technological prog ress rewarding those advanced 11


### energy technologies. 12


### In addition, to encourage early efforts 13


### to reduce emissions and capture the economic 14


### benefits of advanced energy growth as soon as 15


### possible, EPA's final rule should give full 16



### credit to emissions reductio ns achieved by 17


### projects qualified under the state's initial 18


### compliance

-- that are completed prior to 2020. 19



### Wind, solar, and other forms of renewable 20


### energy are a widely available, affordable, 21


### reliable, and rapidly scalable source of 22

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### greenhouse gas emissi ons reductions. According 1



### to the U.S. Department of Energy, the average 2


### cost of wind energy has fallen 43 percent over 3


### the last four years. Renewables like wind and 4


### solar have no variable fuel costs and you can 5


### lock in a fixed price for two decades or mo re, 6


### protecting electricity consumers from fluctuating 7


### prices. 8



### The DOE has calculated that 20 percent 9


### wind energy by 2030 would reduce carbon emissions 10


### by 23 percent. And by 2050 the 550 million 11



### metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions reduced 12


### by wind en ergy would avoid $520 billion in 13


### damages due to climate change. 14


### The EPA's draft rule is a critical step 15



### towards this cleaner future

. 16


### In conclusion Interless supports the EPA 17


### proposed rule because the rule will ensure 18


### reductions of dangerous emissions and send a 19


### strong market signal to the private sector to 20


### invest in homegrown renewable energy. The 21


### renewable energy industry that I represent is 22

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### prepared to redouble our efforts to help the 1



### nation reduce carbon dioxide emissions. 2



### Thanks so much for the op portunity to 3


### testify today on this important rule and thank 4



### you for your hard work. 5



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Probst. 6



### You can all be seated, thank you. 7



### Okay. If I can have the next four 8



### speakers, Deb Ther iau lt, Michael Bowman, Mark 9



### Brown and Shannon Anderson. 10



### Ms. Ther iau lt and Mr. Bowman, if you want 11


### to step up to the podium. And you'll go first? 12



### MS. THER I A U LT: I will? 13



### MS. SUTIN: Yes. 14



### MS. THER IAU LT: Thank you for hearing my 15



### comments. I am Deb Ther i a u lt. I am a Wyoming 16



### resident and I'm a co

- o wner of a small renewable 17


### energy design and installation company. 18



### I support the clean power plan for the 19


### following reasons even though I may be perceived 20


### as biting the hand that feeds me. 21



### I believe that entrenched fossil fuel 22

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### industries will not chang e quickly enough, if at 1


### all, without government pressure. The federal 2


### government in this case is trying to look out for 3



### the health and welfare of all its citizens. 4


### Fossil fuel companies and states which benefit 5


### from severance taxes of which Wyoming is on e have 6


### a much more limited scope focusing on self 7


### preservation and maintaining the financial status 8



### quo. 9


### The pressure which the clean power plan 10


### exerts allows states the flexibility to choose 11


### how to reduce their greenhouse gases. This is an 12



### awesome oppor tunity for Wyoming to move forward 13


### toward innovative clean energy technology in a 14


### systematic way so that the reduction in coal use 15



### throughout the country does not put the state or 16


### its employees at terrible financial risk. The 17



### clean power plan has been ref erred to, I heard 18


### this morning, so this is not my original concept, 19


### anyway, it has been referred to as leverage which 20


### will promote innovation and creative policies. 21


### This plan requires all states and their 22

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### residents to be part of the solution to climate 1



### ch ange. Wyoming cannot take a pass on 2


### participating. 3


### Renewable energy installations have been 4


### growing exponentially in the U.S. for the last 5


### few years. Technology has improved, costs have 6


### come closer to parity and as creative minds and 7


### companies improve the utility grid system to 8


### incorporate wind and solar variable power 9


### production, it will grow even more. 10


### Based on my experience, the current 11


### interest which Wyoming residents show, is great 12


### in installing distributed renewable energy. If 13


### Wyoming decided t o actually promote solar and 14


### wind as part of its energy efficiency program and 15


### reducing energy demand, I know that many 16


### residents and businesses would step up. 17


### In conclusion, as both a Wyoming resident 18


### and as a clean energy provider, I welcome the 19



### opportu nities which the clean power plan offers 20


### for innovation and environmental improvement. 21



### Thank you. 22

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### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. Can you spell 1



### your last name for the court reporter? 2



### MS. THER I A U LT: You know, I had it 3


### written down to spell. My first name is De b, D

4



### e

- b, last name is Ther i a u lt, T

- h

- e

- r

- i

- a

- u

- l

- t as 5



### in Tom. 6



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you very much. 7



### MS. THERIAULT: Thank you. 8



### MS. SUTIN: Mr. Bowman. 9


### MR. BOWMAN: Good morning, my name is 10


### Michael Bowman and I am here testifying today as 11



### an individual and as a father who is a 12


### grandfather and is a fifth generation Coloradoan. 13


### I'm testifying today in support of the clean 14


### power plan and our national goal of reducing 15


### carbon pollution. 16


### I would like to talk today about federal 17


### policy and its effects on rural Am erica. One 18



### hundred and 28 years ago my great, great 19


### grandfather homesteaded south of Paoli, Colorado 20


### in Philips County thanks to the Homestead Act. 21


### He was carried west to Colorado by train, thanks 22

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### to the Rail Act. His great, great grandchildren 1



### and gran dchildren, and great grandchildren are 2


### graduates of Colorado State University thanks to 3



### the Morrill Land Grant Act. 4


### His descendents lived through the Great 5


### Depression and came to enjoy the benefits of 6



### electrification as a result of the FDR's New Deal 7



### and our National Electrification Act. 8


### In the decades that ensued, our family 9


### has enjoyed the benefits of National Farm Policy 10



### that has created unprecedented wealth to the dry 11


### prairies of eastern Colorado. 12



### In my home county of Yuma County alone, 13



### our 3,000 farmers have been recipients of over a 14


### half a billion dollars in subsidy payments over 15



### the past 12 years. 16


### Decades of federal policy have indeed 17


### created the possible, federal assets supporting 18


### entrepreneurship and creativity of my fellow man. 19



### Colorado n ow has a decade of proven 20


### leadership demonstrating the power, pardon the 21


### pun of good public policy. In 2004 Amendment 37 22

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### set in motion our nation's first citizen's 1


### initiated renewable portfolio standard, 10 2


### percent by 2015. Under the thoughtful leadershi p 3



### of then Governor, Bill Ritter, that standard has 4


### been tripled to 30 percent by 2020. Our rural 5


### electrics are now subjected to a reasonable 20 6


### percent standard, a mandate they will easily 7



### meet. 8



### These current state mandates have brought 9



### about billions in investment in rural Colorado to 10


### rural communities desperately in need of 11


### development. Would didn't leave the stone age 12


### because we ran out of stones and we aren't going 13


### to leave the hydrocarbon era because we mined 14



### them to extinction. We are transitionin g for 15



### several reasons. The health of our people, our 16


### atmosphere and in the west, our ever

- shrinking 17


### water supplies and we are transitioning because 18


### it is our best option, in addition, economically. 19


### For agriculture there's a natural 20


### marriage between meeti ng our conservation goals 21


### imbedded in the Farm Bill and reducing carbon 22

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### pollution. Our vast soil inventories managed for 1


### carbon can become a carbon depository. Our vast 2


### biomass solar and wind resources stand waiting to 3


### participate in this new exciting ec onomy. A 4


### rural renaissance is possible because of this 5


### clean power plan. But it will take bold 6


### leadership in our local rural electrics would be 7


### a natural entity to fulfill this void. 8


### You will no doubt hear a lot of testimony 9



### over the next day and a ha lf about the war on 10



### coal and the war on rural America. Let's be 11


### clear, the war on coal is a geologic war, not a 12


### political one. The only authentic war on the 13



### rule on Colorado is the one that is self

14


### inflicted by those of us in rural Colorado. One 15



### where w e ignore the rich history of the federal 16


### and state policy that has played so eloquently in 17


### our lives. We have nothing but opportunity 18


### awaiting us with the implementation of this clean 19



### power plan. 20


### To end with today, I would like to quote 21


### the inspiring wo rds of Maya Angelou, "Do the best 22

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### you can with what you know, and when you know 1



### better, do better." It's time to do better. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Bowman. 4



### Okay. Can I have Mark Brown and Shanon 5


### Anderson come up to the podia. Mr. Brown , you 6


### will go first. 7



### MR. BROWN: Okay. Thank you very much. 8


### My name is Mark Brown. Currently I am the 9


### president of the Board of the EEBC which is the 10


### Energy Efficiency Business Coalition here in 11


### Colorado. We are a trade organization of 12



### contractors, di stributors, manufacturers reps and 13


### manufacturer that sell, provide, and install high 14


### efficiency equipment in the construction 15


### industry. So that would affect insulation, 16


### windows for the shell of buildings and homes, 17


### lighting and heating and air conditionin g. 18


### My role here today is to stress the 19


### ability of the energy efficiency industry in the 20


### role it can and should play if this EPA ruling 21



### and the goals of the EPA do come about. 22

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### Energy efficiency

-- the energy 1


### efficiency industry has been implemented 2



### throug hout the country by many utilities on 3


### programs to reduce demand for demand side 4


### management issues that we have faced in the past 5


### as well as usage reduction which helps in the 6


### carbon emissions issue that we're looking at 7



### here. 8


### Energy efficiency in the las t 15 years 9


### during this scenario has proven to be a very 10



### cost

- effective measure and a very quick measure 11


### of reducing carbon emissions. The energy 12


### efficiency rebate programs typically drive the 13


### behavior typically have a cost effectiveness of 14



### about 30 percen t

-- 30 to 35 percent of that of 15



### all other measures that can reduce the demand and 16


### the carbon emissions of power plants. 17


### Energy efficiency is not only cost 18



### effective, but it is immediate. You know, I had 19


### an example here in the heating and air 20



### condition ing side of it, so, we're looking at 21


### replacing currently two 500

- ton chillers that 22

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### will reduce 750,000 KWH annually, each chiller, 1


### so a million and a half, okay, annually as 2


### opposed to what we're taking out right now. 3


### The other aspect of energy efficiency is 4


### it is good for the consumer. 5


### Okay. Oftentimes what we're talking 6



### about today and some of the people that may be 7


### opposed to this are concerned about the stress it 8


### may put on the bill payers for the utilities, our 9


### programs actually save the bill payers , the 10


### people implementing the programs will actually 11


### save. Yes, the bill rate may go up, but we 12



### always stress that the usage and the rate makes 13



### up the actual payment that the end

- user has to 14


### pay. And in our measures, the rate may go up a 15



### little to counte r this action, but the usage will 16


### come down when you implement energy efficiency 17


### strategies. 18


### Also, I've heard that it can reduce jobs, 19


### but in the energy efficiency industry it also 20


### creates jobs. These contractors, these 21


### manufacturers, they all basically, since 22

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### Colorado, implemented in 2008 the legislation for 1


### the reduction of demand in usage that the 2


### governor put into place. We have actually 3


### increased jobs

-- I believe the number is 7,000 4


### jobs, okay

-- have been added to the Colorado 5


### economy by implemen ting this utility rebate 6



### program

-- two rebate programs by the two major 7



### utilities here in the state. 8


### So, it also provides jobs. It also 9


### increases revenue of companies and organizations 10


### all the way up to the manufacturing side, all the 11



### way down to the contracting side, because instead 12


### of installing base

- priced product, we're able to 13


### install higher

- priced products increasing revenue 14


### which helps businesses. It also increases tax 15


### revenue for states and counties and governments. 16


### So it is one of the truly win/win/win scenarios 17


### and I'm here today to stress the importance of 18


### energy efficiency being included in your goals 19


### for your emission reduction. 20


### One of our fellow nonprofit organizations 21


### SWEEP, Southwest Energy Efficiency Project, they 22

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### have done an analy sis of the Colorado plan that 1


### was implemented in 2008 ends in 2020, okay. So 2


### basically what they've come up with, we have 3


### saved customers nearly $5 billion in their 4


### utility bills so far, or we will through 2020. 5


### We will cut electrical use by 22 percent b y 2020. 6


### We support the 7,000 new jobs that I mentioned a 7



### little bit earlier, and we reduced CO2 emissions 8


### by 5.4 million metric tons by 2020 and that's all 9


### from the energy efficiency programs that were 10


### implemented through that legislation in 2008. 11



### Thank you very much for your time. 12



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Brown. 13



### Ms. Anderson. 14


### MS. ANDERSON: Good morning. My name is 15



### Shannon Anderson, that's Anderson with an

- o

- n. 16



### And I work for the Powder River Basin Resource 17


### Council. We are a Wyoming organization that 18


### advocates for a responsible development of our 19



### state's natural resources. Our members are land 20


### owners, sportsmen, teachers, business owners, and 21



### other citizens from across the state. I'm here 22

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### today speaking on their behalf. 1


### For too long Wyomingit es have borne the 2


### impacts of coal mining and burning in our state. 3


### Our aquifers have been depleted, our lands torn 4


### apart, and our air dirtied. But now coal is 5


### impacting people around the world as the largest 6


### source of climate change. 7


### Our numbers in Wyom ing stand in 8


### solidarity with communities across the glove in 9


### support of our government's actions to limit 10


### carbon pollution and prevent catastrophic climate 11



### change. 12


### EPA's proposed plan is unprecedented and 13


### unparalleled and science tells us we need it now 14



### more than ever. EPA's plan is workable, 15


### flexible, and will meet the needs of Wyoming 16


### utilities and policymakers. We appreciate that 17



### EPA took into account state needs and resource 18


### mixes in setting standards for carbon reduction. 19



### EPA's proposed standard for Wyoming, a 20


### mere 19 percent reduction, will be easy to 21


### achieve based on our analysis of our resource mix 22

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### currently and what it could be in the future. If 1


### anything, Wyoming standard is not strong enough. 2


### EPA's proposed plan will help our state 3



### transiti on from polluting and inefficient energy 4


### sources of the past to clean efficient energy 5


### sources of the present and the future. Thee is 6


### ample time for compliance and our members stand 7



### ready to help our state make the needed 8



### transition. 9


### Our organization wil l be submitting 10


### detailed written comments to EPA later on during 11


### the comment period on the technical aspects of 12


### the plan. But we felt it was important for me to 13



### be here today to express our support for the 14


### Agency's action to reduce carbon pollution 15



### throug h your clean power plan. 16


### Thank you for your time and attention and 17


### for allowing the public to be here to speak to 18


### you today. We appreciate that EPA likes the 19


### public involvement and welcomes it in your 20


### decisionmaking process on this important part of 21



### our organization's mission to involve citizens in 22

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### decisionmaking. So we do appreciate that. 1


### We hope that you move swiftly to finalize 2



### these new standards so that they can be 3


### implemented in states like Wyoming, states that 4


### just may need a little policy push t o get on the 5


### right path. 6



### So, thank you. 7



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Anderson. 8



### You can all be seated. 9



### Okay. If I can have the next four 10



### speakers come up to the seats. Mary Frontczak, 11



### Wes Wilson, Tim Gaudette, and Christina Gosnel. 12



### And as a reminder, when you come up to 13


### the podium if you can spell your name for the 14


### court reporter, we would appreciate it. 15



### So if I can have Ms. Frontczak and Mr. 16


### Wilson. Ms. Frontczak you will go first. 17



### MS. FRONTCZAK: Can you hear me? 18



### MS. SUTIN: Yes. 19



### MS. FRONTCZAK: My name is Mary F

- r

-- 20



### oh, I'm sorry. 21



### (Pause.) 22

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### MS. SUTIN: Okay. Go ahead. 1


### MS. FRONTCZAK: Good morning. My name is 2



### Mary Frontczak, that's F

- r

- o

- n

- t

- c

- z

- a

- k. I gave 3


### up Flynn for that name when I got married, it was 4


### the ultimate sign of love. I' ve got it earlier. 5


### I am the senior vice president and 6


### general counsel for Peabody Energy America's 7


### Business Unit. And thank you very much for the 8


### opportunity to speak here today as well as the 9


### opportunity to submit testimony. 10


### Using coal for electricity enables people 11


### to live longer and live better. It drives the 12


### lowest U.S. electricity costs for any major fuel. 13


### Peabody has a profound disagreement with 14



### the EPA on the approach on carbon under the Clean 15


### Air Act. We are opposed to any proposal that 16



### hurt s electricity consumers, has no material 17


### benefit under climate theory, and is outside the 18


### bounds of law. This proposal must be withdrawn. 19


### Access to clean, affordable energy is 20


### especially important now when we have 115 million 21


### Americans who are eligible for energy assistance, 22

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### 48 million Americans live in poverty. This past 1


### week the Washington Post put a face on exactly 2


### that story. They talked about Sharon Garcia. 3


### She is a resident of Pueblo, Colorado, a single 4



### mother of five. And she talked about her daily 5


### struggle to meet her rising energy costs in 6


### Colorado. They actually relayed a jarring 7



### conversation between Ms. Garcia and her son 8


### Mariono. Ms. Garcia said, and I want to quote to 9


### make sure I don't get this wrong, "Why do you we 10


### need to turn the lig hts off?" She said that to 11



### her son who said, "Because otherwise there's no 12


### money. And when there's no money," he said, "you 13


### can't feed us." No matter how deep she rations 14



### energy, no matter how much she cuts costs, she 15


### can't keep up with her rising elect ricity prices. 16


### The article cited a major cause of the 17


### state's increase in energy costs to be attributed 18


### to the shutdown of coal plants and its aggressive 19



### turn to renewables. 20



### But perhaps the most extreme and 21


### disturbing example is the state of California 22

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### which EPA is lauding as an example. California 1


### has exacerbated energy and equality and turned 2


### away business based on high renewable mandates 3


### and energy taxes. In California the residents 4


### pay 40 percent more than the national average. 5



### One in

-- sorry, I meant three in one; the jobs 6


### and businesses are leaving the the state of 7



### Colorado at a ratio of three to one. And 7,000 8


### manufacturing jobs have left since 2000. Is this 9



### really the model we want? 10


### EPA's proposal is symbolic at best 11


### because it's not goin g to have any significant 12


### benefit under climate theory. An entire shutdown 13



### of America's coal fleet, which would be more than 14


### what's proposed here, would result in a one 20th 15


### of one degree change in the climate. 16


### EPA also shows a deep misunderstanding 17



### ab out the relationship of states and federal 18


### government under the Clean Air Act. The proposal 19



### is outside the bounds of law and if finalized we 20


### expect to be heavily litigated. 21


### We've already seen widespread opposition 22

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### by actions in the people's house, in t he U.S. 1


### Senate, and state legislative actions to name a 2



### few. In mid

- July the House Appropriations 3


### Committee passed the spending bill prohibiting 4


### EPA from using funds for carbon standards. In 5


### March the House passed Whitfield Management to 6



### repeal the propo sed new source rule and stop 7


### 111(d) without congressional approval. 8


### We've also seen 41 Republican Senators 9



### ask the EPA to withdraw the rule and seven 10



### Democratic Senators have also written the 11


### president about new plan standards. Over 20 12



### states have pass ed legislation and resolutions 13


### stating greenhouse gas emissions may only be 14



### regulated on a plant

- by

- plant basis, inside the 15


### fence. And citizen and business groups are also 16


### activating led by the Partnership for a Better 17


### Energy Future. It's the business co alition that 18



### represents 80 percent of the U.S. economy. 19



### Peabody proposes a better path, calls for 20


### investing efficiency improvements, deploying 21


### advanced super critical coal plants, and 22

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### supporting greater research and development into 1


### the next generation te chnical including carbon 2



### capture and storage. 3


### More and more nations have pushed back 4


### against flawed carbon policies. We just saw them 5


### in Australia that they turned away their carbon 6



### tax. 7


### Australia's prime minister

-- I will be 8


### wrapping up

-- called th e

-- may I just finish 9



### about Australia. 10


### Australia's prime minister called the 11


### former carbon tax, quote, "Useless destructive 12


### tax which damaged jobs, hurt families, cost of 13


### living, and didn't actually help the 14



### environment." 15


### Japan has recently said it's g oing to 16



### step up to the port for coal

- fueled power plants 17


### domestically and overseas because it would rather 18


### break a promise than its economy. 19


### We must reject the administration's

-- 20



### MS. SUTIN: Ms. Frontczak, I need you to 21



### wrap up. 22

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### MS. FRONTCZAK: Okay. Harmful proposal 1



### which this will be

-- thank you

-- and put in 2



### place a technology path for long

- term improvement 3


### in carbon emissions. It's a far better path for 4



### clean, secure energy future. 5



### Thank you. My husband would love to have 6



### one of those at our house to get me to stop. 7



### (Laughter.) 8



### MS. SUTIN: Mr. Wilson. 9


### MR. WILSON: Thank you. I'm Wes Wilson, 10



### W

- e

- s W

- i

- l

- s

- o

- n. And a former employee of the 11


### EPA Region 8 . Hi Laura and Elyana. 12



### I worked 37 years here at the EPA. In 13



### 2004 I was a whistleblo wer against EPA's faulty 14


### report on hydraulic fracking and its risks. 15


### You know, right now we have a lot of ads 16


### in Colorado supporting natural gas. In fact, one 17



### of them leads off with Governor Romer , former 18


### Governor Romer saying, "The additional use of 19



### n atural gas will reduce our footprint." He's 20


### wrong and EPA is wrong unless it corrects this 21



### rule. 22

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### We've got to adopt a policy of "first do 1


### no harm" by giving credit for apparent greenhouse 2


### gas reduction when a utility switches from coal 3



### to natural gas. T he agency has to make sure it 4


### gets the science right and the leak rate down. 5


### You two women can carry this forward. We 6


### can easily update, readily, the dated factor that 7


### EPA is using with respect to methane heat 8


### capturing potential to carbon. 9



### EPA is usi ng information of 20

-- a 10



### factor of 20 over a 100

- year period. That 11


### information dates from 1996. EPA had plenty of 12


### opportunities to update this since then, and it 13



### must do so now. 14



### If you read the IPCC report from November 15



### 13, you clearly see a statement from the 16



### scientists, a 100

- year factor is no basis for a 17


### scientific judgment of the relative heat 18



### retention of methane to CO2. Its charts show 19


### unequivocally, based on indisputable science, 20


### that methane traps at the rate of 86 times over a 21


### 20 year period. And I think more importantly 22

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### from the planet's heat budget point of view, you 1


### ought to consider the ten

- year factor of 125. 2


### So, first, get the math right and show 3


### your math. The public needs to know if there is 4



### a shift, as there will be, from coal to natural 5


### gas, that it truly results in a benefit in 6


### greenhouse gas emissions. 7


### The leak rate is wrong as well. EPA uses 8



### -- estimates that nationally 2.5 percent of 9


### methane produced is leaked into the atmosphere; 10


### 1.6 of that is coming from expiration produc tion 11


### in the field, another .9 percent coming from 12


### compression and distribution. That's belied by 13


### NOAA atmospheric measurements here in Colorado. 14



### A year and a half ago when NOAA put up 15


### its instruments to measure this, they found 4 16


### percent leak rate in W ebb County, Colorado, 9 17


### percent leak rate in the basin of Utah, both in 18


### Region 8. And then they found 18 percent in the 19


### Los Angeles basin. 20


### It's pretty clear that the emission rate 21


### is higher based on those ambient numbers rather 22

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### than EPAs bottom up. 1



### Thi s was further supported in a series of 2


### articles by two Cornell professors, Dr. Tony 3


### Agrafia (ph) and Dr. Robert Howorth (ph) of 4


### Cornell which put together the same math. Well, 5


### EPA must show its math. You can't just assume 6


### that because natural gas when it 's burned is 7



### roughly half percent

-- 50 percent of the 8


### greenhouse gas emissions associated with coal, 9


### you have to show the lifecycle costs. 10



### So here's how the rule could be 11


### corrected. Update that science, show the math on 12



### what leak rate would be needed to achieve your 13


### expectation that burning natural gas

-- actually 14



### reduces greenhouse gases. 15


### So only plants that can show expiration 16


### and production plus transmission to the plan that 17



### have a leak rate of less than a half percent 18



### should be approved as actually meeting your 19


### intended goal of this plan. 20



### Since the Environmental Defense Fund and 21


### the University of Texas have shown with proper 22

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### operation that it is possible it is achievable. 1


### And, incidentally, the Inspector General just 2


### this last week encouraged EPA to move forward 3


### with methane regulations with respect to the 4


### pipeline and distribution aspects of it. 5


### Get this science right, EPA. First do no 6



### harm. Thank you. 7


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Wilson. 8



### Next Tim Gaudette and Christina Gosne l l. 9



### Mr. Gaudette, you can go first. 10



### MR. GAUDETTE: Okay. Thank you very 11



### much. G

- a

- u

- d

- e

- t

- t

- e. Good morning and thank 12


### you for having me here to discuss the importance 13


### of strong carbon emission standards to small 14


### businesses. My name is Tim Gaudette, and I'm a 15



### Colorado O utreach Manager for Small Business 16


### Majority. 17


### Small Business Majority is a nonprofit, 18


### nonpartisan, small business organization founded 19


### and run by small business owners and we're 20


### focused on solving the biggest problems facing 21


### small businesses today. We re present 28 million 22

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### Americans who are self employed or own businesses 1


### up to 100 employees. Our organization uses 2


### scientific opinion and economic research and we 3



### work with our network of more than 25,000 small 4


### business owners who understand and represent th e 5


### interests of the small business community. 6


### Small business owners are doing 7


### everything they can to fortify their businesses 8


### on our slowly recovering economy. They are 9


### innovative and in order to help their businesses 10


### thrive entrepreneurs are constantly looking for 11


### ways to cut costs and identify new business 12


### opportunities. 13



### The new carbon emission standards 14


### proposed by the EPA will do both which is why the 15


### majority of entrepreneurs support this rule. 16


### Small Business Majority polled a random sample of 17



### sm all business owners across the country and 18


### found 52 percent support the EPA regulating 19


### carbon emissions from existing power plants that 20


### cause climate change and 76 percent are in favor 21


### of requiring new power plants to reduce carbon 22

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### pollution. 1



### What's more, the vast majority believes 2


### in investing in clean energy can stimulate the 3


### economy and create jobs now. These small 4


### business owners run the gamut of industries and 5


### political identification as well with 37 percent 6


### identifying as Republican or conservative, 30 7


### percent as Democrat or liberal, and 33 percent as 8



### Independent or other. 9



### Small employers support strong, clean 10


### energy standards because they realize carbon 11


### pollution is linked to climate change and extreme 12



### weather. More and more extreme weather has been 13


### hitting small employers where it hurts most. Our 14


### poll revealed climate change and extreme weather 15


### events are causing real financial hardships for 16


### small employers. So much so that the majority of 17



### entrepreneurs affected by an extreme weather 18



### event ha ve experienced a significant financial 19


### impact to their companies and some even had to 20


### lay off their employees. 21



### Research shows small business is 22

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### particularly at risk from the effects of climate 1


### change the extreme weather events it causes. In 2



### fact, an esti mated 25 percent of small to mid

3


### size businesses do not reopen following a major 4


### disaster. Most small businesses have a single 5



### branch or location which makes them vulnerable to 6


### a loss compared to larger businesses that have 7


### backup resources at other facil ities or 8



### locations. 9



### As a result, small businesses are more 10


### heavily impacted by power outages, the absence of 11


### employees, supply chain interruptions, rising 12



### insurance costs, and more. 13



### In fact, our poll found that the vast 14


### majority of respondents have ha d to close their 15


### business for up to a week after an extreme 16



### weather event and some owners say they've had to 17


### close for as long as 30 days if they did reopen. 18


### It should come then as no surprise then that 57 19


### percent of small businesses across the country 20



### wh o need climate change in extreme weather events 21


### like Hurricane Sandy are an urgent problem that 22

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### can disrupt the economy and harm small 1



### businesses. 2


### Along with helping to combat climate 3



### change, stronger clean energy standards can help 4



### create new business opportunities for small 5


### businesses. Entrepreneurs believe allowing the 6


### EPA to regulate harmful carbon emissions could 7


### help stabilize the market and set clear goals for 8


### our nation's future in the clean energy economy. 9


### Small businesses, the majority of whi ch 10


### are unaffected by the standards themselves will 11


### benefit as they supply the services and products 12



### to help those who do have to meet them. 13


### Entrepreneurs can confidently innovate and create 14


### jobs knowing that the future would hold long

- term 15



### financial retur ns resulting from these new 16



### standards. 17



### Our poll numbers prove that small 18


### business owners are committed to this type of 19


### future. Eighty

- seven percent of small business 20


### owners said that improving innovation and energy 21


### efficiency are good ways to increase pr osperity 22

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### for small businesses. 1


### As our polling shows, small businesses 2


### believe in a clean energy economy that includes 3


### robust clean energy standards is rife with 4


### economic possibilities. Entrepreneurs understand 5


### clean energy can stimulate the economy and c reate 6


### new jobs now and believe that we should be 7


### investing in this area to spur growth. 8


### Despite strong small business support, 9


### efforts to set standards reducing carbon 10



### emissions have been blocked over and over. That 11


### comes at the expense of our economic future. 12


### Small businesses make up the back bone of 13



### our state's economy. For every one large 14



### business in Colorado there are 179 small 15


### businesses diligently working to reenergize the 16


### economy. These entrepreneurs are doing 17


### everything they can to hire, gr ow, and move their 18



### businesses forward. As part of these efforts 19


### they want pragmatic, innovative policies that 20


### help guide them into a modern clean energy 21


### economy and that will mitigate extreme weather 22

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### events brought about by climate change which can 1



### hurt t heir businesses. This includes 2


### strengthening EPA standards of carbon emissions 3


### that get into the air from power plants. It's 4


### important that EPA know its proposal to limit 5


### carbon emissions for existing power plants has 6


### won small business' support. 7



### Thank you. 8



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Gaudette. 9



### Ms. Gosnell. 10



### MS. GOSNELL: I'm Christina Gosnell, it's 11



### G

- o

- s

- n

- e

- l

- l. I work for a small organization 12


### called Clean Energy Action and we try to use 13


### citizen power to accelerate the transition to 14



### clean energy eco nomy in Colorado. And I want to 15


### thank you for your leadership and authority to 16


### establish these plans. 17


### It's clear that there are real tangible 18


### risks to climate change. And I believe that the 19


### U.S. really has the moral authority to be leaders 20



### in this arena

. 21


### We are responsible for about 20 percent 22

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### of the local greenhouse gas emissions even though 1


### we're only 4 percent of of the global population. 2



### And here in the U.S. we have more 3


### resources to mitigate and adapt to the changes 4



### that will come with climate change while our 5


### friends in the communities across the world may 6



### or may not have those resources, and may or may 7


### not have contributed as much to the problem. 8


### Although this is clearly a global 9


### problem, we have a moral authority imperative to 10



### be leaders in this issue. So I really urge you 11


### to make these rules as strong as possible. 12


### And fortunately we are in a time 13


### technologically in which a win for environmental 14


### quality does not have to mean a lose for our 15


### economy. As with many regulations, industries 16



### wi ll probably push back saying that complying 17


### isn't possible until it is necessary. And then 18


### it will become pretty easy. 19



### The most recent Lawrence Berkeley Labs 20


### wind technical market report compiled national 21


### averages for wind power purchasing agreements a nd 22

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### they came in at about just over $40 per megawatt 1


### hour which is actually below just the fuel costs 2


### alone for some combined natural gas plants. 3


### So more renewable energy in the future 4


### will mean more stable prices and potentially less 5


### costly prices for bas ic rate payers in the 6



### future. 7



### And I really want to encourage states to 8



### think creatively in how they will implement these 9


### regulations. Colorado has clearly already made 10


### large commitments to reducing our greenhouse gas 11


### emissions with our renewable energy s tandard and 12


### energy efficiency goals and I really hope that 13


### states are encouraged to let the outstanding 14


### innovation in the energy sector attempt to 15


### overcome the inertia in our largely fossil fuel 16



### based electricity supply. 17


### Even in this state our regulated 18



### m onopolies have no mechanism for allowing new 19


### generations to compete against the current 20


### generation on the system and that means that we 21



### have coal plants and natural gas plants on a 22

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### system that are far less economical than the wind 1


### and solar that being bid to our utilities. And 2



### that's a lose for the climate and a lose for the 3



### rate payers. 4


### Renewables and energy efficiency are 5


### already competitive in the market without these 6


### regulations, without including things like the 7



### central cost of carbon or the added benefits to 8


### not being reliant on risky volatile fuel costs. 9


### If we are going to be successful in 10


### mitigating climate, we need to displace coal and 11


### natural gas in the system today which I think 12


### that these regulations will go a long way to 13


### doing that. 14



### So thanks again for all your leadership 15


### and using the authority that the EPA does have to 16


### take these necessary, although not sufficient, 17


### regulations to reduce our greenhouse gas 18



### emissions for our climate and for future 19


### generations. 20



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms . Gosnell. 21



### You can all be seated. 22

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### If I can have Marina Webber and L au ri e 1



### Dameron. 2



### (Pause.) 3



### MS. SUTIN: I need Marina Webber to speak 4



### first. 5


### MS. DAMERON: Did you say L au ri e Dameron? 6


### MS. SUTIN: Yes. Why doesn't Marina 7


### speak and then the kids ca n do

-- 8



### (Pause.) 9


### MS. SUTIN: All right. Are you ready, 10



### Ms. Webber? 11



### MS. WEBBER: Yeah. 12



### MS. SUTIN: Go ahead. 13


### MS. WEBBER: I'm Marina and I'm 11 years 14



### old. This is Joanne, Ciella, and Zubin and 15


### Marino. We cited the global warming express 16



### because w e were concerned about climate change 17



### issues. We have wrote a book and now we are 18


### learning about how to do speeches and work with 19


### our government around how to make changes in our 20


### city, state, and country. 21



### We are mostly concerned about how fast 22

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### fossil fue ls are adding to global warming. Every 1


### summer temperatures climb and fires are more 2


### frequent and more intense. 3



### Most summers I can't seem to sleep 4


### because of how hot it is. There is ash falling 5


### out of the sky from the fires which means my 6


### allergies grow more intense. And think about our 7


### animals. What can we do to help them? They will 8



### burn and die because of the fires we cause as 9


### humans. Even if we stopped using coal, natural 10


### gas, and oil right now, it would take at least 20 11


### more years for climate chan ge to slow down. 12



### We have caused enough trouble already on 13


### this earth, so we should be the ones to stop it. 14


### No one told me to say this. I am saying this 15


### because I care about our climate and about my 16


### future life. My wish is that you all consider 17



### what we are doing to our climate. 18


### We have a short song for you to enjoy. 19


### (Children sing a song.) 20



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you very much. 21



### Okay. Are you ready? 22

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### MS. DAMERON: Yes. 1



### MS. SUTIN: Miss

-- is it Dameron? 2



### MS. DAMERON: Yes. Just remember Dam 3



### moron. 4



### MS. SUTIN: If you could spell your name? 5



### MS. DAMERON: Yes, Laurie, L

- a

- u

- r

- i

- e, 6



### Dameron, D

- a

- m

- e

- r

- o

- n. And I'm a professional 7



### musician and I have a

-- so nice to see you again 8



### -- a presentation

-- a 60

- minute presentation. 9



### It's a multi

- media thing o n environment issues 10



### called, "What Can I Do?" 11


### So it's way past time that we need to 12


### start treating our earth like a spaceship way out 13


### in space. We've only got so much air, so much 14


### water, so many resources basically that's earth. 15


### We've got a limited am ount of resources that are 16


### not going to be resupplied. And that's basically 17


### spaceship earth and that was a term coined by 18



### Buck m inster Fuller in 1952 a long time ago. 19


### But so environmentalists have been trying 20


### to take care of this beautiful precious plan et 21


### that we live on since the beginning of times, the 22

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### beginning of civilization . When are we going to 1



### listen to them? 2



### You know, I feel a lot of this all has to 3


### do with money, greed. These corporations get so 4


### big that their main concern is making money ev en 5


### if it disregards our plant and it's killing our 6


### animals and even murdering our human beings. 7


### We need to stop thinking how much money 8


### we can make now, today, and start thinking about 9


### our children's future, these kids that were just 10



### up here, the future o f our planet. 11



### I'm from Boulder and we've got all these 12


### brilliant scientists in Boulder, M. Carnoa, yet 13


### we only have a diversion rate of 35 percent in 14



### Boulder. I think we can do better. 15


### The whole Highway 36 thing, it's just 16


### astounding. Instead of put ting a light rail, 17



### they've put an extra lane to encourage more cars. 18



### Why? Because there's a lot of money to be made 19


### with oil and gas. 20


### But, I don't want to be all negative 21


### here. There are a lot of good things happening. 22

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### Plastic bags are being banned mo re and more by 1


### more cities in the country. Even that smaller 2


### size of plastic water bottles, last year a town 3


### in Massachusetts banned them, and just about a 4


### month and a half ago San Francisco banned the 5


### small size of plastic water bottles. 6



### And there's a l ot of great innovative 7


### things going on. This thing, I'm really excited 8



### -- waste management, one of the largest waste 9


### management companies in the country is doing a 10


### lot of experimenting with the methane capture. 11



### There is a town in Massachusetts

-- I'm sor ry, I 12



### don't know the name

-- that is totally powered on 13


### the methane that they captured from the landfill. 14


### I think this methane thing, you know, we have

-- 15


### of course we've got tons of landfills. And so 16


### that's a lot of energy we could be capturing and 17



### usin g. 18



### And of course, the sun, and God, I wanted 19


### quote Arnold Schwarzenegger, but I could not find 20



### -- he wrote an editorial in the Boulder Daily 21


### Camera a couple years ago saying about in one day 22

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### the sun, you know, heats up

-- produces more 1



### energy than

-- I forget what he said

-- than what 2


### we do in a city with the electricity. But so the 3


### sun, you know, we're going to be here

-- well, 4



### maybe not, but, you know, the sun

-- it's a big 5



### resource, it's there for us. And, of course, the 6


### other great thing that's goi ng on is the clean 7


### power plan that the EPA is doing and I really, 8



### really hope that that goes through. 9



### And I did want to mention one other 10


### thing. I grew up in south of Cleveland, Berea, 11


### Ohio in the 1960s when I was a little girl where 12


### the Cuyahoga River used to catch on fire and in 13


### 1969 the 13th time it caught on fire, it 14


### attracted Time Magazine which was great because 15


### that spurred the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, 16


### and the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency. 17


### And, mind you, that was under the Ni xon 18


### Administration, so Tricky Dick did some really 19


### great things. But I really wish that the EPA 20


### would be even stronger and stand up against the 21


### big money, the big

-- yeah. 22

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### But thank you for putting this plan in 1


### action and I hope it goes through. Thank you so 2



### very much. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Dameron. 4



### Can I have Ken Connell and Rhonda Lopez. 5



### Is it Connell? 6


### MR. CONNELL: It is Connell. Thank you. 7


### We lost the o in the mud somewhere in a shanty 8



### along the way. 9



### MS. SUTIN: If you could spell you r name 10



### for the record before you start, that would be 11



### great. 12



### MR. CONNELL: Ken is K

- e

- n, Connell, is 13



### C

- o

- n

- n

- e

- l

- l. And I'm pleased to be here. I 14


### thank you for coming to Denver. I don't think I 15


### would be able to testify if you were elsewhere. 16



### In addres sing you today, I would like to 17


### comment on the carbon pollution standards clean 18


### power plan proposed rule in the context of EPA's 19



### mission from EPAs current website. 20


### The mission of EPA is to protect human 21



### health and the environment. A variant of the 22

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### EPA's mission also appears on a USA government 1



### site. It states, "The Environment Protection 2


### Agency with a mission to protect people and the 3


### environment from significant health risks 4



### sponsors and conducts research and develops and 5


### enforces environmental regulati ons." 6



### I reside in Thornton, Colorado. I'm a 7


### retired organizational psychologist who works pro 8


### bono with many nonprofit human rights and 9


### advocacy organizations. Increasingly I discover 10


### that my personal mission is leading me to focus 11



### more and more on how to protect people in the 12


### environment from significant health risks. 13


### Especially those significant health risks that 14


### pose growing large

- scale threats to the survival 15


### in we humans and the many other species of our 16



### planet and our ecosystems. 17


### I recently noti ced that my mission and 18


### EPA's mission share a great deal of commonality. 19


### So that's why I asked for the five minutes to 20



### have my say today. 21


### Right now the most important five minutes 22

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### of my life. I'm dedicating my comments to my 1


### children and grandchildren a nd all the people of 2


### our nation and this world who are already reaping 3



### what we have sown and will continue to sow and 4


### they will continue to reap whether or not we 5


### continue to sow. Knowing that what we put up in 6



### that air lasts for centuries and it accumula tes. 7



### My personal comment s in this case on the 8


### rule noting that the EPA is spot on its mission 9


### with this work and I commend you. First ever, we 10


### need it. We need more. I'm offering my comments 11


### specifically in behalf of our nearly 100,000 12



### moveon.org Color ado members and Moveon's total 13


### membership of eight million throughout our 14



### nation. 15


### I'd like to pose a question. Neil 16


### Armstrong, did he or didn't he say, "Ah" I'm 17


### referring to Wikipedia as he stepped out onto our 18



### moon surface some 45 years ago, "That's one small 19



### small step for" was there an "ah" "man"

-- "one 20


### giant leap for mankind" July 21 of '69. And now 21


### the EPA is being asked to take its one small step 22

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### for man, woman, child, one giant leap for 1



### mankind. 2


### Ensuring that the proposed rule is not 3



### diluted, no t delayed, not discarded, that is what 4



### is now needed from EPA. 5


### Neil Armstrong had to get to the moon to 6


### take his vital step for man in order to achieve 7


### the one giant leap for mankind. 8



### EPA, the Obama administration, and the 9


### people of America must do no less. Because most 10


### of the vital gains in carbon reduction goals 11



### under the rule

-- proposed rule relative to 2005 12


### levels are expected by EPA to be accomplished by 13



### 2020, 27 percent of the 30 percent and 2025, 29 14


### percent. The EPA is urged to continue develo ping 15



### expanded rules for 2020 and 2025. We need to 16


### build on the momentum in the first six years of 17


### accomplishment. 18


### A couple of other comments I would like 19



### to make. You've come to the healthiest state in 20


### the nation according to Vermont and Minnesota 21



### wann abe. Colorado and its foundations and its 22

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### government leadership want to move up the ladder 1


### from about eight to first. That tells me that 2


### you're coming into an environment, when you're in 3



### Colorado, and under the state's lead that is 4


### highly motivated to mo ve beyond what we've 5



### already accomp lished and plan to accomplish; 6



### sooner, not later. 7


### Henry Paulson, Rubin, former Treasury 8


### Secretaries are now on clear record, pay up now, 9



### you won't be able to pay later, and whatever you 10


### pay up now will be advantageous an d beneficial. 11



### So with that comment, I'd like to see us 12


### moving aggressively forward on the sciences and 13


### policies required for our human survival, and 14



### that which makes all life on earth our treasure 15


### and tribute to the universe. Thank you. 16



### MS. SUTIN: Th ank you, Mr. Connell. 17


### MR. CONNELL: I'd like to say my 18


### inspiration comes from Experimenting on a Small 19


### Planet: A Scholarly Entertainment by William W. 20


### Hay, if this doesn't look entertaining, that's 21


### size, not substance that you're responding to. 22

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### Thank yo u. 1



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. 2



### MS. LOPEZ: Hello. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Go ahead, Ms. Lopez, thank 4



### you. 5



### MS. LOPEZ: I'm 52 years old and I've had 6



### colon cancer and breast cancer twice. I've had 7


### genetic testing and it was negative. So I asked 8


### the question, why me? 9



### I grew up along the Texas Gulf Coast. I 10


### ran barefoot through cotton fields where the crop 11


### dusters had just dropped their loads of 12


### pesticides. I played in the warm gulf waves 13


### where you couldn't even see your feet in two feet 14



### of water because it was so dirty. And for 47 15


### years I breathed the air in a state that's the 16



### number one coal burner in the nation and also the 17



### state that's number one in carbon dioxide 18



### emissions. 19


### My mother died a few years ago. She was 20


### 68, and beautiful and kind. Mesothelioma ga ve 21


### her two years of surgeries, suffering, and then 22

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### death. Asbestos exposure causes mesothelioma and 1


### it is a terrible cancer suffered by many coal 2



### miners. 3


### My young and beautiful mother died with 4


### five different tubes coming out of her body. How 5



### much ill ness and suffering will we accept before 6


### we say no to the desecration of our environment? 7



### Just a second. 8



### Because there's absolutely no doubt that 9


### the poisons we put into the air and the water 10


### make us sick. And, I mean, why aren't we jumping 11



### up and down and screaming about this? Don't we 12


### get it? 13


### And the biggest source of this 14



### environmental disaster is coal. Coal means 15


### pollution from the time it's mined to the time 16


### it's burned. Coal is the biggest air polluter in 17


### our country. It produces smog and aci d rain and 18


### it a major contributor to global warming. Would 19


### we knowingly give our children contaminated food 20


### to eat? Well, how is that different from giving 21


### them dirty air to breath? 22

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### Do we want to contribute to the incidence 1



### of caner in children? To ast hma in children? 2


### But not only does coal energy foul our air and 3


### water, it also helps heat up our world. 4


### I live in Redstone, Colorado, a tiny town 5


### in the mountains and I keep a nature journal. I 6


### want my grandchildren to be able to some day read 7


### my journ al and say, oh, so western grosbeaks 8



### arrived in June back then and the service berries 9


### were ripe July, because I imagine things will be 10


### very different in 20 years. The climate is 11


### changing and with it all of nature is being 12



### altered. 13



### Here in Colorado as a result of climate 14


### change, we're faced with vicious and terrifying 15



### wildfires that devour thousands of acres of 16


### forests. Then we have mudslides and flooding 17



### because of that deforestation. I don't know 18


### anyone in the state who doesn't worry about 19



### wildfires d estroying their homes. 20


### On my drive to Denver today I passed 21


### mountains covered with dead forests killed by 22

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### pine beetles that take advantage of trees 1


### stressed by rising temperatures. The water 2


### levels in our rivers are nearly always below 3


### average in recent years. 4



### Last yearn whenever I drove south from 5


### Redstone toward Perranya (ph) the reservoir was 6


### just a big muddy hole. 7



### I wrote a book about women ranchers in 8


### Texas. The higher temperatures and lack of rain 9


### have devastated ranching in Texas as well as in 10


### Colorado and throughout the American west. 11


### That's a part of America that can't hold out in 12


### the face of global warming and that's a sad 13


### thing. 14


### Coal energy is the biggest contributor to 15


### CO2 emissions in our country and that means it 16


### changes our climate. To deny this is wishful or 17


### faulty thinking. And although I'm healthy now, 18


### here's something that makes me feel sick, the 19


### greed that motivates the owners of coal 20


### companies. They spend millions of dollars on 21


### publicity. They pay for ad campaigns that deny 22

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### the truth, that intentionally mislead Americans 1


### into thinking coal means security and jobs. But 2


### don't believe it. They don't care about you and 3


### me or our children. They just want to get richer 4


### and richer, and that's a shameful thing. 5



### And though we are just regular people, 6



### when we stand together we can accomplish great 7


### things and we can say no to coal companies. So 8


### in regard to the clean power plan it's about time 9


### and I think we should all get behind it. We owe 10


### our children and grandchildren clean air , pure 11


### water, a chance to be healthy, and a beautiful 12



### world in which to live. Thank you. 13



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Lopez. 14



### (Applause.) 15


### MS. SUTIN: Okay. We're waiting for some 16



### other speaker s to arrive. So we will pause for a 17


### few minutes and we'll go back on the record when 18


### they arrive. Thank you. 19


### (Brief recess at 1:26 p.m.) 20



### (Record resumes at 1:31 p.m.) 21



### MS. SUTIN: Okay. Mr. Leaver, if you 22

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### would like to go first. 1


### MR. LEAVER: Thank you and good morning. 2


### I am Edward Leaver. I am a physicist 3


### speaking as a private citizen. I wish to thank 4


### you Elyana, Denise, Ms. Paris, again, and EPA for 5


### hosting these hearings. 6


### I unequivocally support EPA's clean power 7


### plan to reign in carbon dioxide emissions. The 8



### cause of

-- global warming is not lost. Y et 9


### global energy consumption, globally will at least 10


### double by mid

- century regardless of what the 11



### United States does. Not from the one billion 12


### people already using vast amounts of electricity, 13


### or the one billion using modest amounts of 14


### electricity, but fr om the 1.6 billion people that 15


### do not have any access to electricity whatsoever; 16



### the 2.4 billion that have almost no access to 17


### electricity; and the three billion new people 18


### that will be born by mid

- century who will need 19


### electricity. This is a huge underta king. 20


### Greenhouse gas emissions too are a global 21


### problem. Given the domestic emissions will be of 22

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### no consequence if we continue increase fossil 1


### fuel exports abroad. We continue to release 2


### public coal from public lands, yet we freely give 3



### much of that awa y to be burnt not here, but in 4


### Europe and Asia, thus encouraging our 5


### neighborhoods

-- their own clean air 6


### responsibilities. 7


### Even domestically we have no long term
, 8


### long enough carbon plan to economically replace 9



### coal and as a responsible and reliable powe r 10


### source. Numerous studies, including EPA's, have 11


### shown that wind and solar and gas alone will not 12



### by themselves
, at a reasonable cost
, decrease 13


### power sector carbon emissions to the near zero 14


### level required by mid

- century. 15


### This is a global problem. Coal is 16


### ubiquitous, easy to mine and transport and fossil 17


### power plants are comparatively simple to build at 18


### reasonable costs. The global power problem is 19


### staggering and coal is the simplest solution. 20



### If we, United States, do not exert 21


### leadership and demonst rate and implement low

22

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### carbon power solutions that are globally actable
, 1


### the rest of the globe will continue to apply 2



### coal. We can do better and we must do better. 3



### The EPA's clean power plan represents a 4


### regulatory approach which, while a necessary and 5



### w elcomed first step, is hardly the last word in 6


### this process. 7



### Senator Michael Bennett has called for 8


### development of a comprehensive national energy 9



### plan to take optimal advantage of all low

- carbon 10


### energy sources. And, yes, this most certainly 11


### must requir e an infusion of modern
, reliable, 12



### safe nuclear power. 13


### As far as national plans go, Germany has 14


### such a plan, Britain has a plan, and France ha d 15


### one. They differ in their details but they do 16



### have plans. And we, the world's second largest 17



### energy produce r and source of greenhouse gas, 18


### need a comprehensive national plan as well , o ne 19



### that adds up. And I ask that we all support 20



### Senator Bennett's national energy plan and once 21


### again support EPA's clean power plan as a 22

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### critical step in that direction. 1



### Thank y ou. 2



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Leaver. 3


### Next if I can have Cynthia Linton. 4


### MS. LINTON: Hello. My name is Cynthia 5


### Linton. I'm a grandmother and I came here from 6


### Chicago to testify. That's how important I think 7



### this c arbon rule is. So thank you for th is 8


### opportunity. 9


### I want to speak in defense of nature and 10


### how we must preserve it from the destructive 11



### activities of men, women and industries who are 12


### on this planet for just a nanosecond compared 13



### with the forest, mountains, and oceans. 14


### I have always enjo yed being out in 15



### nature, from my early days at my grandparents' 16


### home in the Rhode Island woods, to summer camp in 17


### New Hampshire, to fishing with my late husband in 18


### Wisconsin and the Florida Keys. Being out in 19


### nature is so restful and it helps us put thing s 20


### in perspective. 21


### We owned a condo in the Florida Keys for 22

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### ten years. Sitting on our balcony overlooking 1



### the ocean I could smell the salt, feel the warm 2


### breezes and contemplate the sparking blue and 3


### green patterns in the water for hours. 4



### I watched pel icans fold their wings and 5


### dive bomb into schools of fish and long

- legged 6


### white shore bird peck at crabs and other morsels 7


### along the beach. It was paradise. We especially 8


### enjoyed a day out on the water in a small boat 9


### hoping to catch fish, perhaps some s napper or 10


### grouper for dinner. 11


### It got to the point where it didn't 12


### really matter if we caught fish. It was being 13


### there that was important. The Keys is one of the 14


### few place you can watch the sun rise in the 15


### morning and then just go across the street in t he 16


### evening to see a spectacular blue and purple and 17


### pink sunset. 18



### But, alas, about ten years ago two 19



### hurricanes in back

- to

- back years took out our 20


### dock with a storm surge and flooded our property. 21


### Then the next year a third hurricane wiped out 22

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### homes and b usinesses just across the road. 1


### Insurance rates were skyrocketing and we 2


### watched with dismay as a retaining wall had to be 3



### erected on our beach to keep the water from 4


### lapping on the building. 5


### We sold our little piece of paradise for 6


### fear the advancing oc ean would damage it beyond 7


### repair. When I read about global warming and the 8


### rising ocean and what it will do to islands and 9



### low lands I fear my beloved Keys won't be there 10


### for future generations. My children and 11


### grandchildren love the Keys, but their chi ldren 12


### may not have that opportunity. 13


### To me the erosion and flooding of coastal 14


### areas is very personal. And I know that south 15


### Florida is especially at risk. Without action to 16


### stop climate change the Keys will be underwater. 17


### No place on earth is safe from the 18


### ravages of climate change and pollution. With 19


### Congress unwilling to act, we rely on you, the 20


### EPA, to take the steps outlined in the carbon 21


### rule. Please do not weaken it. In fact, I urge 22

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### you to strengthen it. We who love this land and 1



### care abou t its future are looking to you for 2


### leadership. Thank you. 3


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Linton. 4



### Next if I can have Barbara Hildebrand. 5


### And, again, if I can have you spell your 6



### name for the court reporter, that would be great. 7


### DR. HILDEBRAND: All right . It's H

- i

- l

8



### d

- as in David, e

- b

- r

- a

- n

- d. Okay. 9



### MS. SUTIN: Go ahead. 10



### DR. HILDEBRAND: Good afternoon. I am 11


### Dr. Barbara Hildebrand, a retired college 12


### instructor. Thank you for giving me the 13


### opportunity to speak to the panel. I am 14


### originally from Cl eveland, Ohio. My testimony 15


### today will be about my experiences watching Lake 16


### Erie die and later be brought back to life as an 17


### example to the panel of how effective and vitally 18


### important federal environmental regulations can 19



### be. 20


### In the '50s my high schoo l friends and I 21


### spent much of our summers on one of Lake Erie's 22

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### many beaches swimming, water skiing and sometimes 1


### after dark skinny dipping. But by 1959 our 2


### senior year, we began to avoid the lake because 3


### of recurring ear infections and other ailments 4



### cau sed by bacteria in the water. 5


### About that time we discovered a giant 6


### pipe a few miles from the beach discharging raw 7


### sewage into Lake Erie. From 1960 to 1970 the 8


### beaches of Lake Erie were closed and my younger 9


### brothers never had the opportunity to enjoy t hem 10


### as my friends and I did. 11



### The C uyahoga River runs through the Flats 12



### District of Cleveland and feeds into Lake Erie. 13


### My dad and I went down the river every year to 14


### service our boat. In 1969 the river caught fire 15


### near the Republic steel mill. This wa s not 16


### surprising as the river was covered with oil and 17


### other pollutants from decades of industrial 18



### waste. 19


### As the panel must know, this fire led to 20


### the Clean Water Act of 1972. You might be 21


### interested to know the Cuyahoga River now has 60 22

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### different specie s of fish. 1


### One cloudy November day in the early 2


### 1980s I was walking along the beach in front of 3


### my dad's lakefront condo when a diver in a wet 4


### suit emerged from the lake. He was with the Ohio 5


### State University Lake Reclamation Project and he 6



### told me that the lake cleanup was at least six 7



### years ahead of schedule. 8



### The clean up was due to federal bans on 9


### pesticides, mercury and phosphates from 10



### wastewater. 11


### One of my favorite activities when I 12


### visit family in Cleveland these days is walleye 13


### fishing. Fishin g has been great, but it gets 14



### hard to catch them every year because the water 15



### has become so clean and so clear that the fish 16



### are spooked by the boat. 17



### Just as federal efforts resulted in the 18


### cleanup of Lake Erie, federal regulations can 19


### help to reclaim o ur air. The EPA has the power 20


### to pass rules, regulating coal

- powered plant 21


### emissions. This is one of the important tools at 22

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### our disposal in this fight to protect our 1


### environment. Thank you. 2


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Hildebrand. 3



### You can all be seated . Thank you. 4


### Okay. Next if I could have Millicent 5



### Young. 6


### MS. YOUNG: I'm Millicent Young. To all 7



### of the very eloquent, concerned speakers, almost 8


### all asking for strong protections, thank you. 9


### Especially that nurse. That was amazing. 10


### So, if you li ve on planet earth
, you 11



### know
, someone with environmentally caused disease 12


### such as cancer, eye irritation, emphysema, 13


### asthma, et cetera, plus the disease of depression 14



### as we stand by and watch the earth be harmed, 15


### perhaps irreparably. 16



### I and many others he re are calling for 17


### the EPA to make and enforce more stringent rules 18


### than those they are working on. 19



### So I watch bent

- over, old and not so old 20


### coalminers hacking as they near death and think 21


### of the trials of my grandfather, a coalminer in 22

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### Virginia a centur y ago. My father died in a non

1


### coalmining accident. I know first

- hand of the 2


### sacrifices people have made to fuel our country 3


### and our own family economies. 4



### It is time for us to make some 5


### sacrifices. The fossil fuel binge is over. It 6


### may seem inconven ient to use less, and make a 7


### sudden shift to clean energy, but that is minor 8


### compared to trying to survive in a world with 9


### dwindling water, toxic water, toxic air, toxic 10



### land, unprecedented heat and the attendant 11



### weather disasters. 12



### As noted by other speak ers, these are 13


### just some of the costs of coal and fossil fuel 14


### use. We'll have a difficult time counting our 15


### money as we gasp for air and have no clean water 16


### to drink, no food, for lack of irrigation water. 17


### The radiant energy devices invented by T. 18



### Henry Moray as well as Nikola Tesla and wind, 19


### wave, solar, hydro, tidal, biomass, geothermal, 20


### and other energies need the subsidies we have 21


### afforded dirty fuels. Most of these energy 22

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### sources have been proven though their delivery is 1


### undeveloped, again, for lack of support which is 2



### there from the people at least. Coal energy 3


### delivery is terribly flawed. 4


### Despite unbearable human and 5



### environmental costs we have subsidized and 6



### allowed coal interest s to monopolize the rails 7


### and rattle through our towns day and ni ght, cause 8



### acid soils and acid rain, desecrated our 9


### landscapes and wildlife corridors, contributed to 10


### global warming
, and caused air pollution as well 11


### as grievous human suffering symbolized by a coal 12


### corporation's Ludlow massacre of miners and their 13



### famili es near Trinidad, Colorado in 1914, 100 14


### years ago and we're still doing it, a culture of 15


### greed has allowed profit to trump public health 16


### and public resource. So private profit at the 17


### cost of public resource. Take the money and run. 18


### This morning before this hearing, I 19


### thought, oh, I need more sleep. Me first, the 20


### environment later. Clearly this attitude will 21



### lead us to follow dinosaur tracks into 22

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### extinction. We call for change and jobs we can 1



### be proud to do now. Let us be a beacon of 2


### sustainability for the world. Thank you. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Young. 4


### Next, if I could have Max Boykoff. If 5



### you could spell your name for the record. 6



### Thanks. 7



### MR. BOYKOFF: Maxwell, M

- a

- x

- w

- e

- l

- l, 8



### last name Boykoff, B

- o

- y

- k

- o

- f

- f. 9



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. Go ahead. 10



### MR. BOYKOFF: Great. Well, thank you 11


### very much for this public hearing. I am an 12


### associate professor at the University of 13



### Colorado, Boulder. I do my teaching in 14


### environmental studies and geography. I'm also a 15


### fellow at the Cooperative Institut e for Research 16



### and Environment Sciences. 17


### I come here today amidst the work that I 18


### do, one of the projects that I work on alo n g with 19


### grad students and undergrads is working through 20



### this collective on environment, culture and 21


### politics where we work to exa mine how formal 22

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### climate science and policy find meaning in 1


### people's everyday lives. 2


### So as we're progressing into this 21st 3


### century, we all can recognize that climate change 4


### has become a defining symbol of our collective 5


### relationship with the environment. 6


### Diagnoses about what it is, prognoses 7


### about what to do make for high stakes, high 8


### profile, highly politicized science and policy 9


### deliberations. They also cut to the heart of the 10


### way in which we go about our daily lives, we 11


### work, we play, we make decisio ns, we relax in 12


### modern life. And so it critically shapes our 13


### everyday lives and our livelihoods. It's no 14


### longer merely an environmental issue. Concern 15


### for these issues does not tag someone as an 16



### environmentalist. These cut to the heart of our 17



### shared ec onomic political, cultural and social 18



### lives. 19


### So I come here today just to take my five 20



### minutes. And while there is a focus on the 21


### technical dimensions of this proposed ruling, I 22

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### applaud that, but I'd like to encourage everyone 1



### also to continue to conside r the social and 2


### cultural aspects of this. 3


### One of the areas in which I've done my 4


### own research for over a decade now is looking at 5


### media representations and media coverage of 6


### climate change. And so with this collective, 7


### with this group, grad students an d others, we've 8


### tracked the amount of media coverage paid to 9


### climate change and global warming. I can give 10


### you information and I can submit it through my 11



### written comments about how to access this around 12


### the world looking at 25 different countries, 50 13



### diff erent sources, a global perspective, and then 14


### broken down in more detail in eight different 15


### countries. One of which being the United States. 16



### And as we tracked this ebb and flow, 17


### we've noticed just in the last few months that 18



### the National Climate Assessm ent coming out in May 19


### followed by this initial announcement of the 20


### ruling in June has increased tremendously the 21


### amount of media attention paid to climate change. 22

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### Now, it's a mistake for us to think that 1


### more attention equals greater understanding or 2



### more engagement and so forth, but at least it's 3


### opening up this space for our ongoing 4


### considerations. So I'm happy to share that. I 5


### will do that through those written comments. 6


### And so looking to media as a bridge 7


### between these formal climates, science and p olicy 8


### arenas within these climate control quarters like 9


### we're in today, but then out to people on the 10


### street, everyday people who aren't picking up 11


### peer reviewed literature, who don't have the 12


### opportunity to sit here in this privileged space 13


### with us today. 14



### So we situate this work within this 15


### larger cultural politics as we call it, or 16


### culture and politics of climate change. And so 17


### going forward, again, what I wanted to come here 18


### and talk about and urge everyone to do is to 19


### continue to place this also imp ortantly at the 20


### center of ongoing negotiations. These are 21


### complex considerations, certainly. We need to 22

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### have the courage to confront them across all 1


### dimensions. I applaud the proposed rule as a 2


### step in that initial direction. But I want to 3


### just make it clear that there are many of us 4


### within the social sciences pairing with the 5


### natural sciences that are looking at these sorts 6


### of issues and our up service to this process as 7



### well. Thank you. 8



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Boykoff. 9


### Okay. We are going to en d the morning 10


### session. Thank you to all those who stayed to 11


### speak and listen. Can I answer a quick 12


### clarifying question? 13



### PARTICIPANT: Where do we turn in our 14


### written testimony? 15


### MS. SUTIN: Oh, you can leave it up here 16



### with us at the front. 17



### We will st art our next session at 1:10. 18



### But please be back by around 1:00 because we'll 19


### be trying to get everyone in and settled before 20


### we start the hearing. 21


### So it is 12:54 and I am officially 22

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### closing this morning's session. 1


### (Whereupon, at 12:54 p.m., the mornin g 2



### session concluded.) 3

4



### A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 5



### SESSION B 6



### MR. DAILY: Good afternoon everyone. We 7



### would like to get our afternoon session started. 8


### My name is Carl Bailey. I'm the Director 9


### of the Air Program here at EPA Region 8 in 10



### Denver. And on the afternoon panel with me are 11


### Amanda Currybrown. Amanda is from our Office of 12


### Air Quality Planning and Standards in North 13



### Carolina. 14


### And to my right is Ryan Simms, and Ryan 15


### is with our office of Atmospheric Programs in 16


### Washington, D.C. And our hear ing report is 17


### Zachary over there that will be recording all the 18



### comments that are made today. 19


### So I have a few opening remarks and some 20


### ground rules that I would like to present before 21


### we get going with the commenters. So if you 22

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### would bear with me for a couple minutes and then 1


### we'll start calling folks up to provide their 2



### comments. 3


### So we are here today to listen to your 4



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 5


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 6


### of these proposed rules in June of 20 14. The 7


### first rule is EPA's proposed clean power plan for 8


### existing power plants. This proposal consists of 9


### two main parts, site specific goals to lower 10


### carbon pollution from power plants, and 11


### guidelines to help states develop their plans for 12


### meeting the goals. This proposal gives states 13


### flexibility in determining how to meet the goals. 14


### The state will choose what goes into their plans 15


### that show that they will achieve the needed 16


### reductions to meet the goals by 2030. 17


### The second proposed rule is EPA's 18



### prop osed rule to address carbon dioxide emissions 19


### from modified and reconstructed power plants. If 20


### you would like more details on either of these 21



### two proposed rules, there are fact sheets 22

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### available near the registration desk. 1


### Today's hearing in Denver is one of four 2


### public hearings across the country this week on 3



### the two proposed rules. We have had tremendous 4


### interest in each of the hearings and I would like 5


### to thank you for taking time out of your day to 6


### joint us and share your comments. We've had a 7



### lot of people sign up to speak today and we want 8



### to hear from all of you. 9


### Before we get started I would like to go 10


### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 11


### that will make this afternoon's hearing run 12



### smoothly. 13


### First, be sure you have checked in at the 14


### registration desk, even if you're planning to 15


### speak today. And if you have signed up to speak 16


### online or by phone and haven't told us that 17



### you're here yet, please step out to the 18


### registration desk and let EPA staff know that 19


### you've arrived. 20


### Second, if y ou are a speaker, you were 21


### given a room letter when you checked in, either 22

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### Room A or Room B. Please check and make sure 1


### that you were assigned Room B as this is room B. 2


### So here is how the hearing will work this 3


### afternoon. I'll call speakers up in pairs. When 4


### you name is called, please come to the podium at 5



### the front of the room. When I call on you to 6


### speak, please state your name and spell it for 7


### the court reporter. Your comments will be 8



### transcribed and included in the record of 9



### comments on the propos ed rule. 10


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 11


### give comments. We have a light to help you know 12


### how much time you have left to speak. It's right 13


### here on the desk. When the light turns from 14


### green to yellow, that means you have one minute 15


### remaining. Whe n it turns to red, that's the 16


### signal for you to wrap up your testimony. The 17


### light will then flash red and beep which means 18


### you've spoken for more than five minutes and it's 19


### time to stop. 20


### When you are finished speaking, please 21



### remain at the table until th e person next to you 22

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### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 1


### to listen to you today, however a panel member 2


### may ask you questions to clarify your comments. 3


### I will then call up the next pair of 4



### speakers and so on and so on. 5



### If you have brought a written copy of 6


### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 7


### the registration desk before you leave today, or 8


### alternatively you can leave it with us here at 9



### this table. 10


### And then a request from our hearing 11


### reporter, as you're speaking at the podiums, 12



### please don't put your speaker notes over the 13


### small microphones on the podium because he's 14


### using that to listen to your comments for 15


### transcription. 16



### Because of the large number of people 17


### that have signed up to speak today, and to be 18


### fair to everyone we are going to have to enforce 19



### the five

- minute limit strictly. Let me assure 20


### you that EPA gives just as much consideration to 21


### comments we receive in writing as we do comments 22

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### we receive at public hearings like this one. So 1


### if you have more that you would like to comment 2


### on, please submit it in writing. Your comments 3



### will be reviewed. 4


### There is still plenty of time to get 5



### written comment in to EPA. There are comment 6


### cards available at the registration desk. 7


### Comments must be received by October 16, 2014. 8



### W e will put any written comments submitted today 9


### in the official docket for the proposed rules. 10


### Instructions for submitting written comments in 11


### other ways are available at the materials table 12


### near the registration desk. 13



### We are scheduled to go to 8 p.m. t onight. 14


### But this panel will take a short break at 5 p.m. 15



### and change out the panel members and then resume 16


### again and go to 8 p.m. 17


### If you have any questions during this 18


### afternoon, please see staff at the registration 19


### desk or out in the hallways, someone wi ll try to 20



### help you. 21


### Finally, I ask each of you to be 22

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### respectful of everyone who speaks today. We have 1


### people here with a wide variety of view s in our 2



### audience

. We want to hear from all of you and we 3



### can do that and be fair but we do ask that 4



### everyone listen quietly and we want to make sure 5


### we get to hear everyone that's signed up to 6


### speak. So, thank you, again, for taking time to 7



### share your comments on the proposed rule. And 8



### let's get started. 9


### So the first two folks to come up, 10



### please, Lee Rayburn and Dawn Hendry. 11


### MS. HENDRY: My name is Dawn Hendry, D

- a

12



### w

- n, H

- e

- n

- d

- r

- y. I applaud the EPA's efforts to 13


### respond to the overwhelming science showing the 14


### evidence and impact of human

- caused climate 15



### change. 16



### I'm a beekeeper and I brought home 17



### another dead hive Monday night from rural Hudson, 18



### Colorado. It's bad out there, it's real bad. 19


### I've lost four of my seven hives to drought the 20


### past few years, but this one was full of honey, 21


### so they didn't starve this year. Now colony 22

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### collapse disorder is the ca use. But I'm just a 1


### hobbyist. My friends lost hundreds of hives from 2


### the thousand year flood Colorado experienced last 3



### fall. 4


### In addition, all three of my children and 5


### I have asthma. Michael, my son, has had life

6


### threatening asthma since he was a baby. He grew 7


### up on a nebulizer and had 90 doses of steroids 8


### his kindergarten year. These are not without 9


### huge side effects. 10



### Please do all you can do to clean up our 11


### air that has 400 parts per million of CO2 12


### concentration last year. 13


### Finally, we lost two fr iends, Sam and 14



### Minetti Lucas, who died in the lower North Fork 15


### wildfire two years ago. Our state has been 16


### ravaged by so many unprecedented wildfires these 17


### past years, the largest fires in our recorded 18


### history. And we've gotten off easy compared to 19



### many o ther states in the west. 20


### Personally, we've insulated our attic, 21


### gotten new tightly sealed windows, and I drive a 22

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### hybrid, but this is a drop in the bucket for what 1


### we need to reverse climate change. 2



### My grandfather worked in the coal mines 3


### in Wyoming in t he 1920s and he didn't have a lot 4


### of options. Now we have so many other options 5


### for clean energy and jobs. Please move forward 6



### to a cleaner, drought

- free, fire

- free, asthma

7


### free future that allows people and all species to 8


### continue to live in our region. Thank you. 9



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 10


### MR. RAYBURN: Hello, my name is Lee 11



### Rayburn, R

- a

- y

- b

- u

- r

- n. I live here in Denver 12



### and also in Arizona. 13


### My background just a bit, if I could, I'm 14


### an architect and developer and for most of my 15



### career , it's been a lo ng one , I've focused on 16


### sustainable development in energy efficient 17


### development and until about a year and a half ago 18


### I used to go to bed every night thinking, well, 19


### of all the projects I've done, about 70,000 20


### pounds per day of carbon dioxide did not go in to 21



### the atmosphere that could have gone. And I felt 22

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### pretty good about. Patted myself on the back. 1



### And then I woke up to how complacent that was and 2


### I began to realize how real and what present and 3


### clear danger climate change and global warming is 4



### to our daily lives. I'm old enough that it's not 5


### going to affect me, but everybody's got kids and 6


### grandkids out there, it's really about them and 7


### we need to do something about it. 8


### I applaud the Obama administration and 9


### the EPA's first steps towards addressing t his 10


### incredibly important issue, but I also recognize 11


### they are first steps. And as a big supporter of 12


### President Obama, I've got the wonderful Christmas 13



### cards with bow on them. I kind of look to him 14


### and go, it's great that you've finally got to 15


### this point, but like me, you need to get out of 16



### your place of complacency and understand the 17



### crisis at hand. 18


### What I want to do today is I want to join 19



### -- you're going to hear a lot of people talk 20



### about the health effects, the effects on bees, 21


### climate, the impact on climate of continuing in 22

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### any way to depend upon carbon as a way to 1



### generate energy. And I totally support that, and 2


### am right there with them, so you can add my name 3


### to that long list of people. 4


### I today want to take a little different 5



### tact, if I could, a nd speak personally. I'm old 6



### enough to remember the world before the EPA and 7


### far older than all of you sitting at that table. 8


### And I remember a time when, you know, we had love 9


### canal, when smog was 100 times worse than it is 10



### now. I used to fly

-- I've al ways flown a lot, 11


### the smoke filled airplanes, when you came off and 12


### you could wring the nicotine out of your clothes, 13


### if you wanted to. Streams and river catching 14


### fire, cars that got a fraction of our current 15


### mileage, the list could go on and on. You 16



### pro bably know better than I. If you don't, you 17



### can walk around the halls here, there are lots of 18


### pictures showing some of the wonderful things 19



### that the EPA did with the support of its 20



### administrations

. 21


### We all know that right now there's a 22

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### growing political m ovement to limit how our 1



### government

-- our federal government

-- becomes 2



### involved in our lives. And we know that one 3


### party in particular, and I think many politicians 4



### of all shades are on a course to dismantle much 5


### of what has been built up to create what was the 6


### most prosperous middle class in all of history 7


### and one of the most protected environments that 8


### we've seen and repaired a lot of the damage that 9


### happened in that list that I

-- smog, love 10



### canals, et cetera, that I talked about earlier. 11



### And concurr ent with that effort is an 12


### assumption that a free market can somehow self 13


### regulate itself, move toward what needs to be 14


### done, especially as incentives are put in place. 15


### What I know from my personal life is 16


### that's not true. Every good movement, every big 17


### change that has happened in terms of 18


### environmental protection did not come from the 19


### free market, it came from an enlightened 20


### government and enlightened administration and the 21


### EPA and other agencies in the government. 22

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### So today I just want to applaud that 1


### history. I've lived through a lot of it. Took 2


### part in the very first Earth Day a long, long 3


### time ago. Was on the national organizing 4


### committee for that. And I know the importance 5


### that EPA has had in leading these very necessary 6



### efforts to change threat s to our environment. 7


### I think meetings like today are great. 8


### You should always listen to your constituents, 9


### you should always listen to the public, but I 10


### just want to state what we all know, not all 11


### statements are equal, some are based on science, 12



### some are based on opinion. We need to lead with 13


### science and my plea to you is EPA listen 14


### carefully, but continue to lead. You've got a 15


### great and proud history and please do not back 16


### away from it. Thank you. 17



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 18



### Our next two speakers, c ould I have 19


### Hunter Lovins and Cynthia Schmidt? 20


### (Conversation off microphone.) 21



### MR. DAILY: Sorry, go ahead. 22

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### MS. LOVINS: My name is Hunter Lovins, L

1



### o

- v

- i

- n

- s. I am president of Natural Capitalism 2


### Solutions. We work with companies, communities, 3



### count ries, on ways to implement more sustainable 4


### practices profitably. I am also a professor of 5



### business at BARD MBA. 6



### I am here today to talk to you personally 7


### and also professionally. I have a compromised 8


### respiratory system, gotten from working in Kabul, 9



### Af ghanistan. 10


### The emissions from coal plants hurt me. 11


### So to me this is a very personal issue. I live 12


### downwind of a plant that burns coal. And I can 13


### tell when they're burning coal, it's worse. 14


### Here in Colorado over 430,000 people 15



### suffer from asthma. Hospital visits across 16


### Colorado 84 million in 2011 alone, just from 17


### respiratory compromise. Much of the pollution 18


### comes from burning coal. It is also a business 19


### issue. And you will hear a lot about it's going 20


### to cripple our economy, these regulations th at 21


### you are proposing. The truth is, it will not. 22

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### It will cripple our economy if we don't. 1


### Regions that have high extractive 2


### industries have higher levels of long

- term 3


### poverty and high unemployment rates. There is 4


### now study from Carnegie Mellon on the e conomic 5


### impact of adding renewables to the mix where 6



### there is coal and where there is not coal. Where 7


### you add renewables where there is little coal 8


### being burned you get a $10 per megawatt hour 9


### generated additional benefit to the economy from 10


### adding the re newables. Where there is coal and 11


### you are displacing coal, you get $100 per 12


### megawatt hour additional benefit to the economy. 13



### We saw here in Colorado down in Lamar 14


### when just recently the coal

- fired power plant was 15



### cancelled. The Lamar Utilities Board sai d, this 16


### is win/win. They said it will stop the bleeding. 17


### Trying to run this coal plant which had numerous 18


### EPA violations could never get its act together 19


### to burn cleanly. Was costing the utility. 20


### Now the settlement cost the utility. 21



### They had to pay ou t $325,000 in settlement fees 22

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### to the groups that sued them; 120 million to 1


### build the plant. So this is a plant that at will 2


### never operate, except as a test so the utilities 3


### can show what went wrong with it. 4


### But even having to pay the fees the 5


### utility boa rd said, "We're glad to be rid of it." 6


### Renewables are winning. A recent report 7



### from CitiBank looked at the ten

- year forward 8


### price of coal, gas, and renewables. Gas is 9


### cheaper than coal and they said even with gas, 10



### ten

- year forward price 11 cents a kilo watt hour, 11


### ten year forward price of solar 10 cents a 12


### kilowatt hour. They said it's over, we're going 13



### to go renewable. 14


### We are installing renewables at an 15


### incredible rate, faster even than natural gas. 16


### Since January 1, 2011, 31,000 megawatts versus 17



### 47,0 00 megawatts renewables. In the past 30 18


### months 38 percent of all new generating capacity 19



### has come from renewables. And in the first half 20


### of 2014, almost 56 percent of new generating 21


### capacity in this country has come from 22

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### renewables. 1


### Renewable solar, jus t solar alone, now 2



### employs more people than coal, 142,698 employees 3



### versus 123,227. Per dollar invested in 4


### renewables, you get 10 times the number of jobs 5



### you get from coal. 6


### So when we hear people talking about, 7


### we're losing jobs, no, we're not. The job s are 8


### being lost because the coal industry is 9


### mechanizing. It's shutting down the jobs. 10



### It will cost more. Deutsche Bank did a 11


### study of even the heavy subsidies to renewables 12


### in Germany. Yeah, it costs a little more, two to 13



### three Euro per month more, 8 .6 billion Euro more 14


### per year. Sounds like a lot. Had they just 15



### continued to burn coal, 9.4 billion Euro more. 16



### So, sorry, you'll pay more, you'll pay less more 17


### if you abandon coal and go to renewables. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Please go ahe ad. 20



### MS. SCHMIDT: My name is Cynthia Schmidt, 21



### S

- c

- h

- m

- i

- d as in dog, t as in Tom. I live in 22

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### the mountains west of Denver. 1



### I am here today as a very concerned 2


### citizen giving my full support to the EPA's clean 3


### power plan It is clear, we must reduce carb on 4


### pollution and it must be a national priority. It 5


### is imperative for our health and its impact on 6


### climate change. 7



### Here in Colorado we've seen firsthand the 8


### devastation of drought on our wild lands, 9


### devastating forest fires and extreme flooding. I 10



### know people who have lost homes and businesses 11


### from the widespread flooding last year. It is 12


### clear we must urgently do something now as a 13



### country. 14



### The EPA clean power plan sets a very 15


### achievable goal giving each individual state 16



### targets to meet so that ove rall we can reduce 17


### carbon pollution from power plants 30 percent 18



### from 2005 levels by 2030. That's 15 years. 19


### In 1961, President Kennedy set a national 20


### goal of landing a man on the moon. Nine years 21


### later Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon with his 22

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### famou s quote, "One small step for a man, one 1


### giant leap for mankind." 2


### We as a nation put a man on the moon with 3


### nine years of focused national effort. Our 4


### opponents saying we can't possibly reduce our 5


### carbon emissions in 15 years, it's time to take 6



### that one small step towards that giant leap for 7


### mankind with our energy policy. 8


### The EPA's plan does not dictate how each 9


### state must reach its goals. This is an important 10



### fact that needs to be heard and understood by the 11


### public to counter the misinformation that this 12


### plan will force states to close plants and lose 13


### jobs with no choices and no state controls. This 14


### is just not true. I fully support the fact that 15


### the EPA's plan allows each state to meet its 16


### goals by creating its own plan, working with 17


### industry and e ven with neighboring states. This 18


### is a smart, feasible way to move us away from 19


### dirty power to cleaner power. 20


### Many states with large dirty power energy 21


### economies, especially those with large coal 22

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### economies claim this plan cannot be done. This 1


### is just no t true. The proof that it can be done 2


### is right here in Colorado. The energy industry 3


### plays a huge role in Colorado's economy. In 2012 4


### Colorado's energy industry employed more than 5


### 122,000 people and produced more than $41 billion 6



### in revenue. 7



### In 2011 C olorado ranked fifth in the 8


### nation for natural gas production, ninth for 9


### crude oil, and 11th for coal production. But 10


### even with all that, by 2013, Colorado ranked 11


### eighth in the nation for total solar capacity and 12


### tenth for installed wind generation. And we've 13


### only continued to grow our renewable energy power 14


### production and industry, meaning cleaner air, and 15


### more jobs in Colorado. 16



### Colorado is on the forefront of an 17


### environmentally and fiscally responsible clean 18


### energy policy. How is this possible? 19



### In 2010 we in Colorado pass the Colorado 20


### Clean Air Clean Jobs Act which already has 21


### Colorado on the path to meeting the new EPA clean 22

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### power act goals. 1


### Public support for the act was very high. 2


### Back in 2010 a bipartisan research polling team, 3



### and I have th e reference on paper when I give it 4



### to them, found that 79 percent of Coloradoans 5



### preferred renewable energy and natural gas over 6



### coal. 7


### Now, you may ask why I just spent time 8


### reviewing Colorado's success? This is why, 9


### Colorado's continuing progress sinc e 2010 proves 10


### it's entirely feasible for the country to meet 11


### the new clean power plan goals. Colorado is a 12


### model to hold up to other states. In addition 13



### Coloradoans themselves want cleaner energy, even 14


### more so today than in 2010. There are no 15


### legitimat e reasons that we as a nation cannot 16


### reach the new goals in 15 years by 2030. 17


### Thank you for listening. 18



### MR. DAILY: Thank you both. 19


### Okay. Our next two speakers, I'd like to 20


### call Phillip Ward and David Justice. 21



### MR. WARD : Do I go first? 22

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### MR. DAILY: Phi llip Ward, yeah? Please 1



### proceed. 2



### MR. WARD: Hi, my name is Phillip Ward. 3


### I am a biology student at Regis University and I 4


### have been trained in the idea of protecting the 5


### natural world and living with it instead of 6


### taking from it. 7



### And I came, I heard of a rally today up 8


### on top of I think it's called Mellinia Ridge, and 9


### there was a big rally and I felt kind of weird up 10


### there because it's right above, you know, train 11


### tracks that carry just cars and cars of coal. 12


### And it was kind of a good place to be, I guess, 13


### to, you know, before these like carbon dioxide 14



### cuts. 15



### But I also want to talk about how I think 16


### we as a nation could most effectively cut our 17



### carbon dioxide emissions, and that is nuclear 18


### power. And I am a minority among many 19



### environmentalists in that idea, but it turns out 20


### that for the least amount of impact to the 21


### environment you can produce carbon

- free energy 22

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### very efficiently with little use of land, people 1



### are very much for nuclear

-- I mean, for solar 2


### panels and windmills. You don't realize t hat the 3


### production costs of those are high. You have to 4


### mine from the earth, lots of minerals that, you 5



### know we can't

-- we blow up mountains for 6


### windmills and solar panels, when you would blow 7


### up less mountains for one nuclear facility that 8


### could provide energy to millions of homes. 9


### And the technology we're using right now, 10


### we use pressurized water reactors, that is old 11



### technology and I call for more technology to be 12


### pioneered because there's hundreds of ways to do 13


### nuclear. Nuclear isn't just one way. 14


### I call for like investment in technology. 15


### I am also for fusion power, but fusion power is 16



### still science fiction at the moment. We will 17


### come up with it and it will change everything but 18



### until then I believe we need to look at nuclear 19



### power as one of t he

-- all of the above energy 20


### plans because it is not

-- it is totally better 21


### than coal and natural gas which release carbon 22

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### dioxide that's been held in the earth's crust 1


### for, you know, millions of years and now we're 2


### just letting it go and turning our atm osphere to 3



### more Mars like. 4


### And I'm also calling for the research of 5


### thorium power. So right we use uranium as the 6


### main fuel and we have to dig far for it. It's 7


### about as rare as platinum and thorium is like 8


### something like 100 or a thousand times more 9



### a bundant in the earth's crust. When undergone a 10


### fission process it produces less reactive waste 11


### and it cannot melt down because you have this 12


### thing called a liquid florium

-- no, a liquid 13



### sodium fluoride reactor called lifter

-- liquid 14



### fluoride thorium rea ctor, I'm sorry. And China 15


### is actually investing in these plants as a way to 16



### decrease their amount of emissions. But there's 17


### nothing done in the United States about this 18


### technology. And a technology like that could 19



### even be done in Colorado. And it woul d be an 20



### awesome place because there are a lot of 21


### environmentalists here, but yet the main 22

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### production of energy is from coal and natural gas 1



### in this state which is, I think is unfortunate. 2


### So I'm just calling for looking into 3


### nuclear energy as a potential way to cut 4



### emissions and it would be more efficient than 5


### windmills and solar panels. 6



### Thank you very much. 7



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 8



### MR. JUSTICE: My name is David Martin 9



### Justice, J

- u

- s

- t

- i

- c

- e. I'm a native of 10


### Colorado. Was born and raised in Wildridge
, 11


### about five miles straight west of here

-- of this 12


### hearing room. And I worked in this building that 13



### was here that was built in 1959, it was torn down 14


### to build this building for four and a half years 15



### for the Post Office. So I

-- physically I am 16



### here. 17



### I went to the University of Colorado, 18



### Denver, which is seven block east of here, at 19


### that time and I graduated in August of 1970. On 20


### April 20th, 1970, the first Earth Day was put 21



### together by some of the students at that UCD and 22

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### it was held in a brand

- new pla ce called the 1


### Kerrigan Center which was about nine blocks from 2



### here. It's been torn down, it's where the 3


### convention center is now, as part of the 4



### convention center. 5


### Our Earth Day was considered to be one of 6


### the best in the country, perhaps because we 7



### i nvited Senator Gaylord Nelson to be the keynote 8


### speaker. As you probably know, he is known as 9



### the father of the EPA. He was a wonderful man. 10


### So my interest in environment goes back a 11


### long ways. I became somewhat ambivalent about 12



### the environment for a number of years. And my 13


### interest was renewed by a movie called "An 14



### Inconvenient Truth" in 2006. Since that time 15


### I've joined the Sierra Club and on and on and on. 16


### I am kind of looking for ways where 17


### mankind can lessen the carbon footprint that 18



### we've sto pped so heavily on the earth. 19


### I've lived in Colorado Springs since 20



### 1973. The Martin Drake Power Plant that sits at 21


### the crossroads gateway to Colorado Springs 125 22

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### and U.S. 24, you can't miss it, right downtown, 1



### is about a mile from where I live. It cau ght 2


### fire and was closed for repairs in April of this 3



### year. This caught my interest and I wondered if 4


### the three steam turbines and generators could be 5



### moved to the Nixon Power Plants out of town and 6


### combined with the natural gas powered gas turbine 7



### and gen erator and it could produce considerably 8


### more power and can contribute considerably less 9



### carbon dioxide to the air. 10


### The old power plant, big ugly thing, 11



### could be torn down and the area could be 12


### redeveloped. I don't think that's going to 13


### happen. I think they've decided they're going to 14


### leave it open for another 30 years. 15


### Now, this configuration of the turbine

-- 16


### the gas powered turbine and connected to the 17



### other turbines, it is called a combined

- cycle 18


### power plant. You've probably heard of it. It's 19



### call ed CCPP for short. This is where the gas 20


### turbine is powered by burning natural gas and the 21



### exhaust heat would then heat the water into steam 22

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### to power

-- it probably could power all three of 1



### these turbines that are steam turbines now. This 2



### will be done wi th many steam turbine power plants 3



### in the United States where there is abundant 4



### natural gas. 5



### Now, where there's abundant coal and 6


### maybe a lack of natural gas, the existing coal 7


### fired steam turbine plants could be converted to 8


### what's called an integrated gasification combined 9


### cycle plant or IGCCP. This is where coal is 10


### turned into sin gas which is coal gas, methane, 11


### to power the gas turbine and the exhaust heat 12



### used to heat the water to power the steam 13


### turbines. Or gasification plant

-- a coal 14


### gasificati on plant could be located near coal 15


### mines and the sin gas could be shipped by 16


### pipeline. 17


### I Googled all this stuff because of my 18


### interest in lowering the

-- now, a gas

-- a water 19


### gas ship reactor could be added to either of 20


### these generating systems to prod uce hydrogen and 21


### carbon dioxide. Separated the hydrogen would 22

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### become the fuel to power the gas turbine and with 1



### water vapor as the exhaust gas. And CO2 could be 2


### sequestered, liquefied and used as an efficient, 3


### waterless fracking fluid. 4



### The latter coal related systems are 5


### basically what people are calling clean coal. 6



### It's the same as clean coal, but after 7


### researching there isn't such a thing as clean 8



### coal. 9


### By doing either of these two things with 10


### coal gasification, virtually no carbon dioxide is 11



### left. If it's sequestered it can be easily 12


### sequestered because you're separating it at the 13



### time and it can be used

-- it's called

-- well, 14


### we all know what fracking is. And as a westerner 15


### I'm acutely aware of how scarce and precious 16


### water is, and I'm appalled that the million 17



### gallons of water for each well could become so 18


### polluted by hydro fracking that it can never be 19


### treated enough to ever be used for anything other 20


### than hydro fracking and much of it is injected 21


### into deep wells which are suspected of causing 22

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### earthquakes. 1


### So if we could go from hydro fracking to 2


### waterless fracking with carbon dioxide, it's 3


### already being done, but in a very small way, the 4


### other way of waterless fracking

-- and I just 5


### found this out a couple weeks ago

-- is it's 6


### called liquid propane fracking. And both of 7


### these carbon dioxide they can be separated at the 8


### wellhead and the carbon dioxide reused again. 9


### It's kind of a closed cycle thing. 10



### MR. DAILY: So, Mr. Justice, I do need 11



### you to wrap up though. 12



### MR. JUSTICE: I'm sorry. The y're both 13


### expensive

-- all of this is expensive stuff. And 14



### I would suggest maybe the federal government 15


### could help by ending

-- you know, by paying say 16


### half of it. I'll leave with this thought. I did 17


### a little assignment

-- 18


### MR. DAILY: Okay. Sir

-- 19



### MR. JUSTICE:

-- climate deniers and 20



### carbon purveyors have doomed the world to hell 21


### and high water. Thank you. 22

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### MR. DAILY: Thank you very much. 1


### Okay. Our next two speakers, Nick Kerwin 2



### and Eric Larson. 3



### And you are? 4



### MR. KERWIN: Nick Kerwin. That's K

- e

- r

5



### w

- i

- n. 6



### MR. DAILY: Erick Larson? 7



### (No response.) 8


### MR. DAILY: Okay. So we're going to 9


### rearrange. Stacy Tellingh u isen. Sorry if I 10


### mispronounce. 11



### Mr. Kerwin. 12


### MR. KERWIN: As I said, my name is Nick 13



### Kerwin. For full disclosure I am a co

- owner o f 14



### an employee

- owned solar company in Boulder, 15



### Colorado. I am 28 years old and I am deeply 16


### concerned about global warming. Man is 17


### responsible for this warming. There is no 18


### debate. The science is in. Anyone who tells you 19


### otherwise is either lying or wil lfully ignorant. 20



### For the last two and a half years I've 21


### been living in Boulder, Colorado. Last September 22

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### my fiancé and I were under a mandatory evacuation 1


### during the 500

- year flood. We were fortunate as 2


### we did not injure ourselves or lose any property, 3


### but my office did suffer extensive damage and our 4


### company was displaced until this past January. 5


### The previous year, in 2012, we were under 6


### a voluntary evacuation due to the fire burning on 7


### Flagstaff Mountain. 8


### I consider my own experience and I think 9



### b ack to the devastation caused by Hurricane Sandy 10



### and Hurricane Katrina and I have to ask, is this 11


### the new normal? Are we going to have to deal 12



### with 50

- year storms and 100

- year floods every 13


### five years. In a decade we will be seeing 14



### Biblical disasters ever y two to three years. 15



### Where does i t stop? 16


### Some people will cite the cost as a 17



### reason that we should not adopt these 18


### regulations. But can we really afford to do 19


### nothing? 20



### How much does it cost to recover from a 21



### 500

- year flood? What is the cost to clean up a 22

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### hurricane? 1


### We emit roughly a quarter of the world's 2


### greenhouse gases in this country. We bear a 3


### great responsibility to help mitigate the 4


### disastrous effects of global warming. As such, 5



### I'd like to advocate that the EPA take a bolder 6


### position and i ncrease the targeted emissions 7



### reductions. We need bold action and we need it 8



### now. 9



### In 2 0 5 0 , I will be turning 65 years old 10


### and I don't want to live in a world plagued by 11


### drought and floods and tornados and hurricanes. 12


### I want the privilege of retiring in a habitable 13


### country like folks are doing today. 14



### I want to be able to have children and 15


### grandchildren and not worry about the world we're 16


### leaving them. 17


### So, please, set aside short

- term thinking 18


### and do not give in to the fossil fuel industry's 19



### money. We need a long

- term bold plan that 20



### enables us to lead at home and abroad. Increase 21


### emissions reductions targets, raise the bar. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 2



### MS. TELLINGH U ISEN: Good afternoon. My 3


### name is Stacey Tellinghuisen, T

- e

- l

- l

- i

- n

- g

- h

- u

4



### i

- s

- e

- n. 5



### I work for Western Resource Advocates, a 6


### conservation organization working to protect the 7


### west's air, water, and landscapes and the 8


### communities that depend on them. 9


### If you take one key point away from my 10


### testimony today it is this, Western Resour ce 11


### Advocates has analyzed Colorado, New Mexico and 12


### Nevada's current energy policies and finds that 13


### these three states will be very close to 14


### achieving EPA's proposed 2030 targets. 15



### In fact, in Colorado and New Mexico, 16


### policies already in place will accomp lish over 80 17


### percent of what EPA standard requires. 18


### In Nevada with existing policies and 19


### plans, the state and main utility will have 20


### little if anything else to do to meet EPA's 21


### proposed requirements, and that's summarized from 22

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### the graph in front of me. 1


### Let me back up. Earlier this year the 2



### U.S. released the fourth national climate 3


### assessment. In the southwest the litany of 4


### impacts described in the assessment is daunting 5


### including hotter summers, more frequent and 6


### intense droughts, increased wildfire s along with 7


### the secondary impacts on human health and 8



### environmental resilience. 9


### One of the report's key conclusions was 10


### the southwest is already experiencing the impacts 11


### of climate change. For those of us living in the 12


### region, that conclusion rings tr ue. For these 13


### reasons EPA's proposed clean power plan is of 14


### critical importance. Western Resource Advocates 15


### believes EPA's proposed standards for greenhouse 16


### gas emissions from existing power plants are 17


### essential for protecting our natural resources 18



### and o ur health and our western way of life. The 19


### regulations are thoughtful, fair, and rigorous, 20


### and consistent with the specific requirements of 21



### Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. 22

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### We appreciate the work that EPA has put 1


### into developing these important regu lations. And 2


### while we expect to submit more specific written 3



### comments to EPA at a later date, Western Resource 4


### Advocates believes the regulatory framework EPA 5


### has established is very workable and that the 6


### regulations are on solid technical and legal 7



### footi ng. 8


### Moreover, we believe the regulations come 9


### at a critical time given the pressing nature of 10


### climate change we urge you to maintain your 11


### proposed adoption and implementation schedule. 12


### To further explain my opening point, in 13



### the west many states and u tilities have already 14


### been taking the the initiative to advance clean 15


### energy and prove energy efficiency and transition 16


### the most carbon intensive power plants to cleaner 17


### sources of energy. Key stakeholders including 18


### our utilities, state agencies, health a nd 19


### environmental advocates have worked together to 20


### pursue creative, workable solutions. Those 21


### solutions have helped us meet other Clean Air Act 22

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### requirements to reduce mercury, air toxics and 1


### regional haze. Those solutions protect our 2


### community's air qual ity and health and have 3


### protected electricity customers from untenable 4



### rate increases. 5


### For example, Colorado's Clean Air Clean 6



### Jobs Act, Nevada's Senate Bill 123, and New 7


### Mexico's recent plans to advance the retirement 8


### of a portion of San Juan generating station put 9


### these three states in an excellent position to 10


### meet the standards and are moving those states 11


### toward a lower carbon footprint. 12



### And all five southwestern states in the 13


### four corners region have energy efficiency 14


### programs in place to further red uce the 15


### environmental impacts of our energy needs. 16


### These policies have put western states 17


### well on their way to meeting EPA's proposed 18


### standards. In fact, WRA assessed the likely 19


### emissions trajectory of the three states of 20



### Colorado, Nevada, and New Mexic o. These are the 21



### three states that have taken a proactive approach 22

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### to addressing environmental issues and greenhouse 1


### gas emissions and those efforts have served them 2



### well. 3


### Our analysis finds that if Colorado and 4


### New Mexico simply follow through on what they're 5


### planning to do anyway under current policies, 6


### both states will accomplish over 80 percent of 7



### EPA's standard. 8


### In Nevada, by implementing current 9


### policies as already planned, the state will need 10


### to take few additional actions, if any, to meet 11



### EPA's standard. 12


### So, again, if you take only one point 13


### away from my testimony today, it is this, western 14


### states have proactively addressed this issue and 15



### are well prepared to meet EPA's standard on the 16


### reasonable timeframe EPA has proposed. While 17



### there's more to do over time and Colorado and New 18



### Mexico as well as several other states in the 19


### region our history shows that western 20


### stakeholders can and will come together to find 21



### workable low

- cost practical solutions that 22

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### protect our communities, our economies, our jobs, 1



### and our environment. 2


### We appreciate EPA's willingness to 3


### provide states with significant flexibility to 4


### comply with these regulations in ways that make 5



### local sense. 6


### But most importantly EPA's proposed 7


### regulations are a vital step towards managing our 8


### greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing emissions is 9


### critical to protecting our communities as well as 10


### the rivers, farmland, forests and landscapes that 11



### define the west. 12


### Thank you for this important work. 13



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Our next two 14



### commenters, Larry Grim, Eric Larson. 15



### So, you are? 16



### MR. GRIM: Larry Grim, do I get ten 17



### minutes? 18


### MR. DAILY: Larry Grim. Eric Larson? 19


### Second call. Okay. So, Mr. Grim if you would 20


### like to go ahead and proceed. 21



### MR. GRIM: Oh, sure. Well, thank you 22

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### very much for l istening. That's quite a feat you 1


### all take on to open your hearts and minds to such 2


### a variety of insights and perspectives. 3


### I'm Larry Grim, I'm a Presbyterian 4


### minister work and assisting a congregation on 5


### Capital Hill here and also a cofounder of 6



### Creat ion Care Ministries, my own ministry of 7


### enabling congregations to address climate change. 8



### And I have a message from God. 9


### "Dear Beloveds" she started off talking 10


### to all of us and she gets to EPA a little later. 11


### "Dear Beloveds: I have birthed you from 12



### t he beginning and I continue to birth you from 13


### generation to generation. I have given you 14


### everything you need to live. I put that toxic 15



### stuff underground for a reason, to protect you 16



### and the environment from its hazardous effects. 17


### I gave you everything y ou need for energy above 18


### ground, the wind, free flowing rivers, the sun, 19



### use these. You will fair a lot better. 20



### And there are some sources of energy 21



### above ground you haven't even seen yet, and 22

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### you'll find them. Fortunately you've matured 1



### enough to be able to use them and to use them 2


### wisely. 3



### I'm tired of

-- I created a system for 4



### each element so that the water could clean 5


### itself, so that the plants could renew the soil, 6



### so that the air could be refreshed. But I'm 7


### having trouble cleaning up your messes

. 8


### I thought that black lung disease and 9


### asthma and cancers would be warning enough that 10


### these elements are toxic and not to be toyed 11



### with. 12



### EPA, thank you very much for your 13


### assistance. Your clean power program I think is 14


### a good idea. It's better than nothing and some 15


### of my other nations are moving ahead much more 16


### quickly than you. You'll have to play catch up, 17


### but eventually the more rigorous it is, the more 18



### difficult it is to use these toxic elements, the 19


### more likely those who like to create energy will 20


### come over to my side. It is, after all, a 21



### battle, a battle for minds and hearts as well as 22

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### bank accounts. I will win, but I appreciate your 1



### help. 2


### I want you all to live on that place you 3


### call earth for generations, and generations, and 4


### generations to come. I want you to live t here 5


### because, well, I love you. Signed the One Who 6



### Is." 7


### Thank you very much for listening. 8


### MR. DAILY: Thank you, Mr. Grim. 9


### Our next two speakers, I'll call Eric 10


### Larson again. Or Libby and I apologize if I 11


### misprounce, C homo. 12



### MS. CHOMO: Chomo. 13


### MR. DAILY: Chomo. So, Ms. Chomo, if you 14


### would like to go ahead. 15


### MS. CHOMO: Thank you for the opportunity 16


### to express support for taking on the challenge of 17


### limiting the extent to which existing power 18


### plants can dump their cli mate

- disrupting air 19


### pollutants into the atmosphere. 20



### I am a Colorado attorney and member of 21


### the coordinating committee of the Loreto Work 22

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### Network, a faith

- based public education network 1


### reaching almost 1,000 regular newsletter 2


### subscribers and many more thr ough overlapping 3


### circles with whom we continually eng age. 4


### We commend you on beginning this 5


### important work. We suggest that you consider 6


### some of the following practical realities as you 7


### shift through the many public comments you are 8


### receiving. 9



### Number o ne, the proposed rule seriously 10


### under estimate our nation's capacity to move 11


### quickly to a fully renewable energy economy. And 12



### I cite

-- I have footnotes, you see them. I 13


### won't go into the footnotes. 14


### In the face of the climate emergency 15


### which exponentia lly accelerates as we speak, 16



### these rules should shape the more realistic 17


### direction of the rapid conversion to renewables. 18



### Number two, the proposed rules seem to 19


### ignore the continuing climate impact of using 20


### natural gas as a bridge fuel. Those studies tha t 21


### say it burns cleaner in the power plant need to 22

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### expand their consideration to include the climate 1


### impact of the industrial process extracting 2


### natural gas accelerating in highly populated area 3


### especially in Colorado in all applications 4


### industry

- wide. 5



### Fo r example, a cradle

- to

- grave assessment 6



### of natural gas demonstrates the largely 7


### unreported fact that there is no overall 8


### improvement from a climate perspective when 9


### natural gas is substituted for coal. And for 10



### that I site the

-- I believe it's what's call ed 11


### the Cornell Study and distinguish a more recent 12


### study that indicates that it's the newer 13


### construction of the power plants that rely on 14


### natural gas, therefore using newer technology 15


### that accounts for any perceived improvement in 16


### natural gas electrical ge neration compared to 17



### coal. 18


### Keep in mind that the long

- term public 19


### costs of coal are only recently being quantified. 20


### A Harvard study estimates $500 billion per year 21


### in public costs unreimbursed dumped on the public 22

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### by the industry including health impacts of the 1


### industry. 2



### So as many years as we've been relying on 3


### coal as a fuel, it's only recently that we are 4



### able to see the economic devastation that it 5


### causes in its wake. The explosion in natural gas 6


### production in recent years has barely been 7



### studied fo r its health impacts and its air 8


### emissions. And early peer reviewed studies are 9


### concerning and I mention as an example Theo 10



### Colburn

-- Dr. Theo Colburn who is generating 11


### studies about the health effects in peer

- reviewed 12


### studies of natural gas production. These factors 13


### support a direction for the future that does not 14


### encourage reliance on natural gas and other 15


### climate harming source emissions. 16


### Number three, the Fukushima experience 17



### has educated us to the risks of nuclear 18


### generation facilities in even the most 19


### technologically sophisticated societies. Who 20


### could have predicted the terrible tsunami that 21



### devastated the Japanese and sent nuclear 22

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### pollution into the Pacific Ocean and the world's 1



### atmosphere. 2


### Currently the explosion of natural gas 3


### production in population centers such as Colorado 4


### is associated with an increase in earthquakes 5


### never seen before. This increasing risk, as well 6


### as aging of nuclear facilities, and nuclear's 7



### long

- term waste disposal quandary argues against 8


### encouraging nuclear facilitie s as backups for 9


### coal powered electrical generation. 10



### Therefore we strongly urge the EPA to 11


### strengthen incentives and requirements to move 12


### the country into the renewable energy era as 13


### quickly as possible. Sunlight is abundant all 14


### over the globe and avai lable for power generation 15


### using current technologies as amply illustrated 16



### by Germany's performance. 17


### According to a recent publication out of 18


### Stanford University, rapid mobilization 19


### throughout the U.S. is affordable and can be 20


### completed replacing 80 to 8 5 percent of existing 21


### energy by 20/20 and 100 percent by 20/50 relying 22

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### solely on wind, water, and sunlight. 1


### Emory Levins, physicist at the Rocky 2


### Mountain Institute, has been making information 3


### along these lines available to the public for 4



### years as well. It is also significant that the 5


### renewable energy industry competes well with the 6


### fossil fuel in creating and maintaining jobs. 7



### Does that mean I have to stop? 8



### MR. DAILY: No, you have about another

-- 9



### MS. CHOMO: Thank you. 10



### MR. DAILY:

-- red

-- yo u have a few

-- 11



### 20 seconds. 12



### MS. CHOMO: Our country needs to face up 13


### to existing policies that make it difficult to

-- 14



### MR. DAILY: You

-- 15



### MS. CHOMO:

-- financial markets of the 16


### past era to adapt quickly to the new economic 17


### reality forced on all of us by the climate 18


### emergency. Unless we find elegant and equitable 19


### solutions to these existing policies, their 20



### inertial momentum will continue to drive us 21


### headlong into the climate emergency. 22

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### For policies that you can adapt within 1


### your field of authority, I urge you to do so with 2


### collaboration with other federal agencies and 3


### institutions if necessary. Please undertake the 4


### collaboration needed to get this more 5


### comprehensive job done. I'm talking about 6


### updating industries and financial markets and 7


### policies th at regulate those across the board 8


### which are making it difficult for those 9


### industries to adjust quickly enough to help us 10


### change course as quickly as we need to. 11



### Thank you. 12



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 13


### Our next two speakers, Harv Teitelbaum 14



### and Jackie Patte rson. I'll let you decide. 15


### MS. PATTERSON: So my name is Jackie 16



### Patterson. In February of 2011 my father began 17


### to complain of a cough which worsened over six 18



### months until he was homebound and tethered to an 19


### oxygen machine. He was severely winded just from 20


### walking from the living room to the kitchen to 21


### get a glass of water. Dad's diagnosis was 22

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### pulmonary fibrosis. My father never smoked a day 1



### in his life. His doctor stated that the scar 2


### tissue in his lungs was likely due to 3



### environmental toxins from his workplace or 4



### otherwise. 5


### Dad spent 40 years of his life residing 6


### within ten miles of the Fiskin Cooperative Coal

-- 7



### in Chicago. We laid my father to rest on 8



### September 12 of 2011. 9


### How many more people must be buried 10



### before we are granted equal protec tion under the 11



### law? 12


### Approximately 68 percent of African 13


### Americans live within 30 miles of a coal plant. 14


### The impact is clear in the rates of respiratory 15


### illnesses in African Americans. Even though we 16


### have lower rates of smoking, we are more likely 17



### to die of lung disease. Nationwide African 18


### American children are twice as likely to die of 19


### asthma and three times as likely to be admitted 20


### to hospital for asthma attacks. 21


### We also see higher asthma rates within 22

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### Latino American and Native American populations 1



### wh o are also exposed to coal pollution. 2


### Carbon may not directly cause these 3



### health conditions, but it creates what scientists 4


### call domes that trap, concentrate, and intensify 5


### the other toxins we breath. With the mercury 6


### arsenic, lead, dioxins and other po llutants come 7


### from coal plants and communities nationwide, 8


### these domes are in effect creating lethal gas 9



### chambers for communities that are host to these 10



### facilities. 11



### At the same time carbon dioxide is the 12


### number one driver of climate change and these 13



### plant s are the leading source of carbon dioxide. 14


### Again, climate change affects us all, but 15


### its effects are felt hardest by communities and 16


### people are politically, economically, physically, 17


### and socially vulnerable. 18



### When I did hurricane relief work after 19



### Katri na and Rita, the thousand of folks who 20


### walked through the door of the disaster recovery 21


### center in Houston were largely African American 22

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### and low income. 1


### I also met scores of people with hearing 2


### impairments, with no qualified interpreter to 3


### help them navi gate the system. 4


### I encountered people with HIV and AIDS 5



### who went for weeks without access to their life 6


### preserving drugs. I met hundreds of people who 7


### had to completely start over after escaping only 8



### with their lives. 9


### And the scientists say that Katr ina, 10


### Rita, Sandy the Colorado floods and more are only 11


### the tip of the iceberg. 12


### Growing up on the south side of Chicago I 13


### lived in a food desert. Like so many communities 14



### of color and low

- income communities this means we 15



### had better access to Doritos or Cheetos than 16


### broccoli or strawberries. We already see how 17


### this plays out for communities who are suffering 18


### from high rates of obesity as well as hunger and 19



### all of the health conditions that result from 20


### poor diet such as diabetes, heart disease, high 21



### blood pressure, et cetera. 22

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### Affordable access to nutritious foods 1


### will only lessen as climate change affects crops. 2


### In recent years we've seen farmers in Illinois, 3


### Iowa, Mississippi and beyond lose crops both from 4


### flood and drought. And, again, scientists s ay 5


### we've only begun to see these impacts. 6



### I visited coastal communities from 7



### Florida to Louisiana to North Carolina to New 8


### York, some of whom are already experiencing 9


### coastal erosion and several of whom are facing 10


### displacement in the next 20 years due to sea 11


### level rise and the storm surge. 12


### The cost of inaction on carbon pollution 13



### is the health, livelihood, culture, economic and 14


### social well being of communities worldwide with 15



### vulnerable communities hit first and worst. 16



### Therefore we need strong carbon po llution 17


### standards to slow the path to devastation on 18


### which we are recklessly traveling. Strong means 19


### that we aren't steering the ship from one 20


### disaster to another by myopically shifting to 21



### false solutions. 22

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### Even if costly clean coal technologies 1



### were prov en to effectively capture carbon, that 2


### wouldn't help the 76,000 coal miners who have 3


### died of black lung disease since 1968 or the 4


### folks who are drinking lead and selenium

- laced 5


### waters contaminated by coal ash. 6


### Shifting to fracking continues to emit 7



### carbon from venting and flaring, has been known 8


### to contaminate aquifers with its mysterious 9


### cocktail of toxins and may even contribute to the 10


### increase in seismic activities that is causing 11


### earth plates from Nebraska to Ohio and beyond. 12



### The folks near the Fukush ima Daiichi 13


### plant would certainly have a cautionary tale 14


### about increasing our reliance on nuclear energy. 15


### Particularly given that a number of America's 16


### nuclear reactors are built on earthquake fault 17



### lines. 18


### We must establish aggressive targets for 19


### polluti on reduction and significantly increase 20


### our focus and action on energy efficiency and 21


### clean energy. The National Renewable Energy 22

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### Laboratory has found that we have vast amounts of 1


### solar, wind, and geothermal potential. Some of 2


### which is already being suc cessfully harnessed 3


### creating new jobs. That's where we need to focus 4


### investments as we ship from harmful coal

- based 5


### energy production processes. 6


### Finally, we must ensure that each state's 7


### development of implementation plans is done 8


### inclusively so that e quity

- based input is heeded 9


### and all stakeholders particularly communities 10


### that are most impacted by coal

-- directly as

-- 11


### indirectly through climate change. 12


### Decades of pollution from coal plants 13



### have led us to where we are today, already 14


### experiencing cat astrophic climate change and we 15


### must get the situation under control for all of 16



### our sakes. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 19


### MR. TEITELBAUM: Hello, my name is Harv 20


### Teitelbaum, that's spelled T

- e

- i

- t

- e

- l

- b as in 21



### boy, a

- u

- m as in Mary. I'm an instruct or in 22

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### environmental science. I'm also on the Beyond 1


### Oil and Gas team of the Rocky Mountain Chapter of 2



### Sierra Club. And I've also been the treasurer of 3


### the Colorado chapter of Physicians for Social 4


### Responsibility, PSR. 5


### I'll be fairly brief. I know that a lot 6


### of the opposition to those rules which I thank 7


### you and I thank President Obama for enacting or 8


### proposing. A lot of the opposition will be 9



### economic. So I wanted to comment a little bit on 10



### the economics of coal and the economics of 11


### cleaning up power plants. 12


### There is a new group that's just been 13


### formed. I think it's a couple of mayors, 14


### including Mayor Bloomberg and some business 15



### leaders, I'm not sure what the name of their 16


### organization is, but they've come out with a 17


### study of the cost of climate ch ange. And for 18



### Colorado they talk about reduced outdoor 19


### productivity from increasing temperatures and 20


### more volatile weather. They talk about shorter 21


### outdoor working hours. They talk about reduced 22

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### crop yields. And all these things in the long

1



### term will c ost millions, if not billions of 2



### dollars. 3



### So when we compare the cost of not 4


### working on the climate to the cost of the climate 5



### change consequences, there's really no 6


### comparison. 7


### Right now the cost of coal fired plants 8


### are being externalized. Those co sts in terms of 9


### health from mercury pollution to childhood 10


### development, the cost of acid rain from the 11


### sulfur emissions combining in the atmosphere to 12



### make sulfuric acid, all those costs now are being 13


### externalized to people living in the area of 14



### coal

- fired plants. 15


### So who should be paying those costs? 16


### Should they be paid by the coal plant operators, 17


### or they should be paid by the citizens and 18


### civilians through higher health costs. 19


### I would also advocate for not replacing 20


### coal plants with fracked gas or with any other 21



### non

- renewable fossil fuel. We have, as has been 22

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### mentioned many times here in this room, we have 1


### the potential for replacing coal plant energy 2


### completely with renewables by 2050. The blue 3


### print that's been put forward by researchers at 4



### Stan ford University, sate

- by

- state blueprint not 5



### only would replace the non

- renewable fossil 6


### fuels, but at the same time by doing so would 7


### increase the financial well being of citizens, 8



### the health of citizens and would create millions 9


### of jobs across the countr y. 10


### I live in Evergreen and I live in a 11



### ponderosa forest. My house has not burned down 12


### yet, but I've been on preevacuation alerts a 13


### couple of times and during the summer usually we 14


### have to have a kind of an emergency package or 15


### emergency clothing and supp lies and personal 16


### goods in our cars. We just spend the summer with 17


### a lot of emergency clothing and our valuables in 18


### the car in case we're put on evacuation alert in 19



### case we can't get back to our houses. That's the 20


### reality that we have to live with. 21



### Ther e will come a time, in my opinion, 22

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### when the ponderosa ecosystem, the lower Montaim 1


### forest will be replaced with Montaim sc hrublet, 2


### in my opinion. I think that that's coming due to 3


### the prevalence of wildfires up there. That there 4


### will be an ecosystem shif t. 5


### I also climb trees in addition to my 6



### other work. I climb trees as a tree climber in 7


### Colorado. I take people up in the trees, kids, 8


### groups, just organizations, scouts, and so I'm 9


### very concerned with the health of trees. I 10


### notice through acid rain, I can tell when trees 11


### are dying on the top. I can tell when they're 12


### unhealthy. So all these things are important to 13


### me. And I would just leave you with this thought 14


### that I know you folks don't make policy 15


### yourselves, but think years down the road from 16



### no w when you have, you know, kids, grandkids, how 17


### would you like them to

-- how would you like to 18


### be remembered? What kind of decisions would you 19


### like to make now that you want to be proud of 20


### down the road. And you think about that and pass 21



### that along to y our organization. 22

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### Thank you very much. 1



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 2


### The next two speakers, Brandon Cheshire, 3



### Chris Hoffman. 4



### You're Mister? 5



### MR. HOFFMAN: Chris Hoffman. 6



### MR. DAILY: Brandon Cheshire? 7



### (No response.) 8



### MR. DAILY: Okay. Mr. Hoffman? 9



### MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you. My name is 10



### Chris Hoffman, H

- o

- f

- f

- m

- a

- n. I live in 11



### Colorado. I strongly support EPA's proposed 12


### rules limiting carbon emission from existing 13


### power sources. It's important to me that the 14


### final rule for clean power plant explicitly l ist 15


### a carbon tax as an option for states to comply 16


### with the rule. Ideally this should be a revenue 17



### neutral carbon tax with all revenues returned on 18


### an equitable basis to households as monthly 19



### dividends. 20


### Among economics a carbon tax is widely 21



### accepted as the most economically efficient and 22

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### cost effective way to reduce carbon emissions. 1


### In a time when state budgets are tight, the most 2



### cost

- effective option must be on the table as a 3


### mechanism for complying with the rules. Though 4


### directed at reducing CO2 em issions, carbon taxes 5


### can also help states earn compliance for other 6


### fossil fuel byproducts regulated by the EPA such 7


### as particulates, mercury, knox and sucks. 8



### When a carbon tax is revenue neutral, it 9


### can also yield a double dividend boosting the 10



### economy while also cutting carbon emissions. 11


### Modeling studies for California, 12


### Massachusetts, and Washington state have shown 13



### that a revenue neutral carbon tax will have a 14


### positive impact on the economy at the state level 15


### while also reducing carbon pollution. 16



### At the national level a revenue neutral 17


### carbon tax would have a correspondingly greater 18


### positive impact and this includes 2.8 million 19


### jobs added, $1.37 trillion added to the GDP, 20


### 227,000 lives saved while cutting carbon 21


### emissions by 50 percent. 22

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### I have t he references for the websites 1



### for this information on the sheet that I'll leave 2


### with you. These modeling studies are supported 3


### by the practical experience of British Columbia, 4



### Canada which shows that a subnational 5


### jurisdiction that adopts a revenue neutr al carbon 6



### tax can lead in both economic indicators and 7



### carbon emission reductions. 8


### The EPA should issue clear guidelines on 9


### the administration, implementation, price, and 10



### escalation rate for a carbon tax that would 11


### satisfy the requirements of EPA's new ru les. 12



### Thank you very much for that work you're 13


### doing to make our world a better place. 14



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 15


### I'll call Brandon Cheshire again, second 16



### call. 17



### (No response.) 18



### MR. DAILY: Next speaker Jonathan Cohen. 19



### (No response.) 20



### PARTICIPANT: Jon athan Cohen spoke this 21


### morning. 22

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### MR. DAILY: Oh, he did. Okay. 1


### PARTICIPANT: (Off microphone.) 2



### MR. DAILY: Well, I'm sure we have other 3



### folks that are cued up. 4


### Okay. I'm going to call a short recess at 5


### this point. Anyways, we need to change the 6



### ba tteries in our microphones. So if we could 7



### take a ten

- minute break and then I'll reconvene. 8



### Thank you. 9


### (Brief recess taken at 3:22 p.m.) 10



### (Record resumes at 3:34 p.m.) 11



### MR. DAILY: All right. I'd like to 12



### reconvene us. We have some more commenters 13



### sch eduled. So, thank you. I'll call the next 14



### two names. John Gale, Robert Moss. You are 15



### Mister? 16



### MR. GALE: Gale. 17



### MR. DAILY: Mr. Moss? 18



### Mr. Gale, please proceed. 19



### MR. GALE: Great. Thank you for the 20


### opportunity to submit formal testimony regarding 21



### EPA' s proposed clean power plan. My name is John 22

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### Gale and I'm here today from Arvada, Colorado to 1


### express my strong support for EPA's historic 2


### action to address climate change by setting 3


### limits on carbon pollution from power plants. 4



### We have a collective obli gation to 5


### protect fish, wildlife, water, and all of our 6


### natural resources for future generations. I'm 7


### the National Sportsman Campaign Manager for the 8


### National Wildlife Federation and I can say that 9


### habitat loss, fragmentation and degradation is 10


### posting on e of the greatest threats to fish and 11


### wildlife today, and as a hunter and an angler, I 12


### applaud the EPA for taking action to address one 13


### of the most significant impacts to fish and 14


### wildlife habitat by attacking the root of our 15



### carbon emissions crisis. 16



### The EPA's clean power plan is a major 17


### step in the right direction. This plan will help 18


### see the way towards a future in which we invest 19


### more in wildlife friendly sources of clean energy 20


### and work to improve our energy economy by 21


### investing in technologies and im plementing 22

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### thoughtful national policies that protect our 1


### western heritage and the big landscapes and clean 2


### air and water that define out heritage. 3


### Outdoor recreation is a big part of our 4


### national identity and economy too. Each year 47 5



### million Americans

-- did you get that, 47 million 6



### Americans head to the field to hunt or fish. 7


### Their spending on gear, food, lodging and a 8


### variety of other goods and services pu shes a $200 9


### billion ripple through the economy each year; 10


### $200 billion, and supports over 1.5 mi llion jobs. 11


### But climate change poses a direct threat 12


### to outdoor recreation. Hunting and fishing and 13



### other forms of outdoor activities are threatened 14


### by droughts, wildfires, and higher temperatures 15


### that impact fisheries, big game populations and 16



### our outd oor heritage across the state of 17



### Colorado. 18


### By reducing carbon emissions to combat 19


### climate change the clean power plan will help 20


### protect this vibrant industry. Americans are 21


### ready to do the right thing too. A June 2014 22

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### Washington Post ABC poll found tha t a huge 1


### majority of Americans support curbing carbon 2


### pollution from power plants, 70 percent say the 3


### federal government should have limits on 4


### greenhouse gas emissions from power plants and 63 5


### percent said they would be willing to see a 6


### utility bill increa se of $20 per month to have 7


### them. Clearly Americans are asking for this to 8


### happen and they're willing to pay for it too. 9


### Additionally, a National Wildlife 10


### Federation poll in Sportsman last year showed 11


### that 69 percent agree the U.S. should reduce its 12



### carb on pollution that contributes to climate 13


### change and threatens the fish and wildlife 14


### habitat that future generations depend on. 15


### As you all finalize this standard, I ask 16


### that you work to ensure that it achieves the 17


### deepest reductions possible by requiring states 18


### to develop and utilize more wildlife

- friendly, 19


### renewable energy sources. Work with states like 20



### Colorado to strengthen standards that encourage 21



### more power to be generated from renewable sources 22

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### like wind and solar and invest in energy 1


### efficiency po licies that reduce energy demand 2



### overall. 3


### I thank you for the opportunity to 4


### comment today. We look forward to working with 5


### you to finalize and implement the clean power 6


### plan. We hope that you will do everything you 7


### can to ensure it stays strong throu gh the 8


### process. Fish, wildlife and the future 9


### generations that follow us are counting on your 10


### leadership and it's urgent that we act now. 11



### Thank you very much. 12



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 13



### Proceed. 14



### DR. MOSS: I'm Dr. Robert Moss, M

- o

- s

- s. 15


### Senior pastor o f the Lutheran Church of the 16


### Master in Lakewood, Colorado, testifying on 17


### behalf of the Lutheran Advocacy Ministry of 18


### Colorado, a ministry of the Rocky Mountain Senate 19


### of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and 20


### I appreciate this opportunity. 21



### By den omination as well as my own 22

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### congregation I have a deep history of care for 1


### our environment both locally and globally. We 2


### recognize the responsibility we all have as 3



### caretakers of our environment, and we also 4


### acknowledge that as a human community we've bee n 5


### lacking in fulfilling that responsibility. 6


### For us as Lutheran Christians, addressing 7


### environmental concerns is part of what it means 8


### to live as responsible caretakers of the earth 9


### and we're pleased to join this conversation from 10



### an economic, scientific, political and spiritual 11


### perspective as these are all aspects of joining 12


### God in God's mission of caring for and renewing 13



### the earth. 14


### I believe the support of the clean power 15



### plan proposed rule to regulate and reduce carbon 16


### emissions is part of our respon sibility. CO2 is 17


### the most significant greenhouse gas causing 18


### climate change. And coal combustion causes 30 19


### percent of CO2 pollution. More than 70 percent 20


### of the electricity received in Colorado comes 21



### from coal

- fired power plants, so we are a larger 22

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### prod ucer of carbon emissions, and we are 1



### c ontributing to climate change. In addition to 2


### so many other reasons as to why this matters. 3



### I want to remind us all that climate 4


### change is already affecting agriculture and 5


### therefore affecting food supplies and food 6


### prices. 7


### Through no fault of their own 8


### impoverished people who are the most vulnerable 9


### because they rely solely on growing and selling a 10


### small crop for daily life or trying to procure 11


### enough food for a day or maybe even just one more 12


### meal are losing their ability to sustain 13


### themselves because of the changes in agriculture. 14


### Alleviating hunger and global poverty are 15


### major concerns for me as a person of faith. 16


### Carbon emissions directly and adversely affect 17



### the hungry and the poor about whom we care so 18



### deep ly here in Colorado as well as around the 19


### globe. Continued climate change makes hunger and 20


### poverty issues an even large challenge for us to 21



### deal with. 22

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### In the case of my own congregation in 1



### Lakewood, because of awareness of your agency as 2



### well as so many others, when aware that we're 3


### addressing hunger and poverty issues as well as 4


### helping those others most vulnerable to climate 5


### changes by reducing our own carbon footprints, we 6


### performed an energy audit to find ways to reduce 7



### our power needs. We changed al l our lighting in 8


### the building to CFL and Halogen, we turned off 9



### water heaters that were rarely used, and 10


### eliminated high

- energy appliances. Several 11


### households in our congregation now receive 12


### electricity through solar power, and our church 13


### building itself is solar powered. 14


### And as of this morning, as I checked, in 15


### the time that we've been utilizing the solar 16


### power at our building, we've saved 55.3 tons of 17


### CO2 from being released into the environment. 18


### Which doesn't even include the pollutants 19



### produced from the mining, transportation, and the 20


### refining of the coal. Compared to the two 21


### billion tons of CO2 emitted annually by power 22

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### plants in the United States. Our 55 tons may not 1


### see like a lot, but every little bit does make a 2



### difference. 3



### And the clean power plan will certainly 4


### have a real impact on reducing CO2 emissions and 5


### thereby saving lives, helping hungry and poor 6


### people in the United States and around the world, 7


### and bringing relief to millions of the vulnerable 8


### elderly and others with breathing diffic ulties. 9



### It's my hope that the clean power plan 10


### will be one step in an ongoing movement of 11


### reclaiming our environment and thereby saving 12


### lives, saving the environment and improving 13


### health and sustainability for people here and 14



### around that world. 15



### Thank y ou for this opportunity to speak 16


### to this really important issue. 17



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. If you could all 18


### bear with us for a couple minutes, we are 19


### actually going to change the batteries out in the 20


### microphones now and then I'll call the next two 21



### speakers up. 22

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### (Pause.) 1



### MR. DAILY: Next two speakers, Pete 2


### Maysmith, Rebecca Cantwell. Mr. Maysmith? 3



### MR. MAYSMITH: Sure. Okay. Thank you. 4



### Good afternoon and thank you for the 5


### opportunity to comment on this critical effort to 6


### tackle carbon pollution. My na me is Pete 7


### Maysmith, I grew up here in Colorado and I'm 8



### currently the executive director of Conservation 9



### Colorado. 10



### Conservation Colorado is a state

- wide 11


### nonprofit that works to protect Colorado's 12


### environment and quality of life and we have 13


### offices through out the say including in the 14


### northwest corner of the state in Craig, Colorado. 15


### The EPA's clean power plan will, for the 16


### first time in U.S. history, and not a moment too 17


### soon, place safeguards on carbon pollution from 18


### power plants. It is a crucial step fo rward in 19


### the fight against climate change and I strongly 20



### support them. As the number one source of 21


### greenhouse gases in the U.S., it is due time we 22

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### as a nation start taking real action to reduce 1


### carbon pollution from the power sector. This will 2



### clean our a ir, fight climate change and enhance 3


### the state and national economy. 4


### Communities across Colorado are already 5


### seeing and feeling the impacts of climate change 6



### from increased health risks like asthma attacks 7


### and respiratory disease to the devastation of 8



### fi res, floods, and droughts. 9


### Although we have protections against 10


### mercury, soot, and other air toxics, there are no 11


### limits on carbon pollution from power plants even 12


### though they are the single biggest source of this 13


### pollutant in the United States. 14



### Now, m etro Denver is no stranger to air 15


### quality struggles. I grew up here and I have 16


### vivid memories as a boy seeing our infamous brown 17


### cloud and asking my parents what it was all about 18


### and their answer was that we had dirty air that 19


### day. I hated the idea of br eathing bad air. 20


### Now, we tackled the brown cloud in many 21


### ways. It was with the help of landmark laws like 22

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### the Clean Air Act. We rolled up our sleeves, we 1


### worked together to reduce the brown cloud's air 2


### pollution so we could again see our crystal clear 3



### b lue skies that we love so much here in Denver 4


### and in Colorado and throughout the west. 5


### Today we face similar challenges. After 6


### our brown cloud success other parts of our air 7


### quality have worsened here in Colorado. Now, 8


### this is from the explosion in oil and gas 9


### drilling, it's from cars, but it's also made 10


### worse by more carbon being pumped into our 11


### atmosphere. The good news is that Colorado has 12



### started to take steps to do our part to reduce 13


### carbon pollution and greenhouse gases in our air. 14



### For example, ten years ago Colorado 15



### became the first state in the nation where the 16


### voters said they want to get their energy from 17



### renewable sources like the wind and sun. Since 18


### then the state has three separate times increased 19



### and expanded our renewable energy standar d here 20


### in the state. We've transferred our grids, 21



### energy next to cleaner fuel sources and advanced 22

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### some of the strongest energy saving measures in 1



### the entire west. 2


### Now, what of all those nation leading 3


### investments and policies done to Colorado, well, 4



### we have one of the nation's most vibrant 5


### economies. Utility prices below the national 6


### average, and an ever burgeoning clean tech sector 7


### that last year contributed $15.5 billion to the 8



### Colorado economy. 9


### Colorado had led the way on reducing 10


### carbon pollution in a collaborative, practical 11


### way because it is the right thing to do. 12


### Colorado has a history of doing what is right 13


### when it comes to our families, our economy and 14



### our environment. We have shown other states and 15


### the nation how a combination of policies and 16



### investments in cleaner resources can cost 17


### effectively reduce carbon pollution while 18


### expanding our economy and protecting our health 19


### and our precious environment. 20



### The EPA clean power plan enables Colorado 21


### to build off of our successful and proven 22

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### foun dation reducing carbon. Reducing carbon 1


### pollution is an opportunity to raise the floor on 2


### all that we have already accomplished here in 3


### Colorado. It is also a step towards leaving this 4


### earth a better place for our kids. And it is the 5


### right thing to do. Thank you very much. 6



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 7



### Ms. Cantwell? 8



### MS. CANTWELL: Good afternoon. My name 9



### is Rebecca Cantwell. I'm the executive director 10


### of the Colorado Solar Energy Industries 11


### Association. I'm pleased to speak to you speak 12


### to you today in s trong support of the clean power 13



### plan. And I want to thank the EPA for all the 14


### hard work it took to develop this rule. 15



### The landmark proposal to reduce carbon 16


### emissions from existing power plants offers a 17


### sensible approach to addressing global warming 18



### whi ch is by far the most pressing issue of our 19


### time. The beauty of the challenge before us is, 20


### while it's not going to be easy to get there, the 21


### solutions are literally outside the door. 22

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### The sun beams down 300 days a year here 1



### in Colorado, the wind blows across our plains 2


### every day. These sources of proven, reliable, 3


### clean energy can power the future in a way that 4


### not only eases the threat of catastrophic climate 5


### change, but also provides jobs and economic 6


### development right here at home. 7



### Thus, we're pl eased that the proposed 8



### 111(d) rule allows states to take advantage of 9


### solar as part of a diverse compliance portfolio. 10


### We're also pleased solar is included in the 11


### definition of the best system of emission 12


### reductions as we believe solar has a large role 13



### t o play in helping states reach compliance as a 14


### competitively priced CO2 offset. 15


### Nationally, this year alone, solar is 16


### expected to avoid 13.8 million metric tons of 17


### CO2. With the right policies in place, solar has 18


### the potential to offset a great deal mo re under 19


### the clean power plan. For me, the act is urgent. 20


### I'm a Colorado native. I love this magnificent 21


### state which you know is the inspiration for 22

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### America the Beautiful. 1


### But last year, for the first time in 2


### memory, we had fatal wildfires followed a f ew 3


### months later by fatal floods. Increasing extreme 4


### weather events are mounting all around us and we 5


### know these impacts here and all over the world 6


### will continue to escalate causing political 7


### disruption and eventually threatening everything 8



### we hold dear. 9


### Colorado is known as a clean energy 10


### leader and our policies have been a model for the 11


### clean power plan. Colorado still gets about two

12


### thirds of its electricity from burning coal and 13


### the plan would require that we clean up the 14


### state's carbon pollution abo ut 35 percent from 15


### 2005 levels. We really think the solar industry 16


### has a critical role to play. As we like to say, 17



### solar is the solution. 18



### Last fall the Solar Foundation did the 19



### most in

- depth study ever of the economic and 20


### environmental impacts of the s olar industry in 21


### Colorado. Just since 2007, after we passed the 22

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### renewable energy standard that Mr. Maysmith 1



### alluded to, the solar energy has created the 2


### equivalent of 10,790 jobs leading to employee 3


### earnings of over $534 million. The solar 4


### industry has g enerated economic output worth a 5


### total of $1.42 billion. It's been responsible 6


### for more than $24 million in environmental 7


### benefits achieved through avoiding the missions 8


### of pollutants. And generated savings of nearly 9


### 300 million gallons of water which wo uld have 10


### been consumed as part of traditional electricity 11


### generation. 12


### Last year COSEA, my organization, 13



### announced Colorado's million solar roofs, a 14


### campaign setting a goal to increase solar 15


### deployment to three gigawatts by 2030, roughly 16



### ten times the amou nt of solar we have today. 17


### This program can become a key part of how 18



### Colorado will meet the emissions reductions of 19



### the clean power plan. We've mapped out a path to 20


### reach a goal, there's evidence all around us that 21


### it's achievable and becoming more affor dable 22

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### every day. 1


### Just last week Colorado's biggest utility 2



### Xcel Energy announced it will buy the solar power 3


### from a new 156 megawatt solar project for 25 4



### years at rates competitive with the long

- term 5


### price for natural gas generation. 6



### More than 20,000 Coloradoans have already 7


### made the choice to put solar energy systems on 8


### their homes and businesses. While supporting the 9


### rule, we believe it can be made stronger. In 10


### building block three on renewable energy the BSER 11


### is based on incomplete data. Solar ca pacity and 12


### market projections are already much higher than 13


### stated by the proposed rule. We also believe 14


### that EPA should include distributed generation 15


### solar and solar heating and cooling. Both these 16


### sectors are already playing an important role in 17



### the ra pid expansion of solar. 18


### So I hope that we will get started 19


### immediately on moving toward a clean energy 20


### future. We've already lost too much time and we 21



### have many reasons to embrace the sunny future 22

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### with optimism. 1


### Thank you for the chance to talk with you 2



### today. 3



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. The next two 4


### speakers, Thomas Pierce, Kim Tyrell. 5



### Mr. Pierce? 6



### MR. PIERCE: My name is Thomas Pierce, I 7


### work as an organizer for the Sierra Club, but I'm 8


### here today to speak on behalf of the American 9



### Indian movement. Our organization turned 46 10


### years old yesterday and we have members in all 50 11


### states and ten active chapters across the country 12


### in Indian country. 13



### I am the cochairman of the American 14


### Indian Movement of Indiana and Kentucky which is 15



### home to the Pokagon Poto watomi band of Indians. 16



### We also pleasure to have a 13 percent 17


### asthma rate and a 27 percent unemployment rate in 18


### the coal fields of eastern Kentucky. 19


### Our great Chief Seattle of the Dkhu 'Duw' 20



### Absh nation once said, "Tribe follows tribe, and 21



### nation foll ows nation like waves of the sea, it 22

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### is the order of nature, and regret is useless. 1


### Your time at the cay may be distant, but it 2


### surely will come. And for even the white man 3



### whose God walk and talk with him as friend to 4


### friend cannot be exempt from the co mmon destiny. 5


### We may be brothers after all, we will see." 6


### The chief went on to say, "The earth does 7



### not belong to us, we belong to the earth." 8


### In Kentucky and Indian we watch in horror 9


### as our sacred and ancient Appalachian Mountains 10


### are being torn apart by mountain

- top removal. In 11


### Indian we are watching the devastation of strip 12


### mining destroy the things that are sacred to us. 13


### Coal mining operations in both states routinely 14


### demolish our sacred archeological sites and 15


### burial mounds because they stand in the way of 16



### progress. 17



### We support a strong, clean power plan 18


### that will begin to provide protections for our 19



### most sensitive communities and reduce the need to 20



### burn coal and fossil fuels. 21


### Kentucky and Indiana are inundated with 22

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### old, dirty fossil fuel burn ing power plants such 1


### as the Elmer Smith plant in Owensboro, Kentucky 2


### that is 49 years old. These plants are putting 3


### poisonous mercury, arsenic, and other toxic 4



### metals into our sacred Ohio River. It is our 5


### hope that you will write a plan that will force 6


### Elmer Smith to clean up its act. 7



### All of our waterways are sacred. We need 8


### a plan that will force those outdated coal plants 9


### to shut down and stop putting mercury and other 10


### poisons into our waterways. Waterways the fish 11


### we depend upon live in. 12



### All acr oss Indian country we are being 13


### negatively impacted by climate change. In White 14


### Earth, Minnesota, where many of my family members 15


### live, climate change is threatening our most 16



### sacred resource, our minoma or wild rice is 17



### dependent on clean, fresh water. It is dependent 18


### on winter to provide much needed snow and ice to 19


### our rivers, springs, and lakes. 20


### Across the southwest drought is reeking 21


### havoc on every aspect of the environment. Our 22

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### forests, our rivers, our air, and most 1


### importantly, our people. In the northwest 2


### wildfires are ravaging the lands of our relatives 3


### along the Pacific coast. In the arctic, life as 4


### our people know it is vanishing forever as we 5


### watch the polar ice caps melt and the animals our 6


### people depend upon die away. 7



### Just two days ago Pr esident Obama said 8



### that the wildfires of the northwest were as a 9



### result of drought that has been brought on by 10


### climate change. That 400 square miles burned are 11


### our forests. The animals losing their habitat 12



### are our animals. The planet being destroyed, ou r 13


### planet. When will it stop? 14



### We cannot afford to burn one more pound 15



### of coal or another ounce of gas. That balance of 16


### our future is at stake. We need a strong climate 17


### plan that will protect Indian country and all of 18



### our lands that have been taken from us as a 19


### result of an occupation that is now 500 years 20



### old. No treaties ever made with us have ever 21


### been honored. It is our hope that America will 22

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### at least enter into a treaty with the earth, a 1


### treaty that promises to stop destroying our 2



### mother earth and one that promises to preserve 3


### our ways of life. Indian country has borne the 4


### brunt of America's energy addiction long enough. 5



### Our lands have been blown up by nuclear 6


### bombs, it has been poisoned by coal, uranium, and 7


### iron ore mining long enough. The Nava jo, the 8


### Crow, the Piute strip mined and homes to massive 9



### coal

- burning power plants, buried under coal ash, 10


### our waters polluted beyond belief, our people 11


### struggle to maintain our national sovereignty. 12


### This is, after all, our land and you are visitors 13



### to it . We cannot continue to sit and watch while 14


### tar sands are ripped from our under our first 15



### nation's brothers and sisters in the north, nor 16


### will we allow those pipelines to carry it across 17



### our lands in the south. 18



### Can I finish? 19



### MR. DAILY: Yeah. 20



### MR. PIER CE: We cannot allow our lands to 21


### be used for the destruction of our very way of 22

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### life. We will be acting and opposing any and all 1


### forms of mining, pipelines, or power plant 2


### construction that destroy our lands. So we 3


### respectfully ask you to impose a clean power plan 4


### that puts and end to the environmental genocide 5


### that America has wrought on this land, a land 6


### that was once a paradise, is rapidly becoming a 7


### wasteland of America's making and business people 8


### believe that when we travel to a place we should 9



### lea ve it better than we found it. We have the 10


### owner's manual to this hemisphere. We know how 11


### to walk on this land, in a way that does not 12


### destroy it. We are asking you that you learn how 13


### to better walk upon this land so that you do not 14



### harm it. 15



### So remem ber, the earth does not belong to 16



### you, you belong to the earth. Thank you. 17



### (Applause.) 18



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 19



### Ms. Turrell? 20


### MS. TURRELL: Hi, thank you for this 21


### opportunity to speak. My name is Kim Turrell and 22

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### I'm the Air Quality Programs Manager at the 1


### American Lung Association in Colorado. I am also 2



### the mother of a child with asthma. So I speak 3


### firsthand to the impacts of pollution on health. 4


### Nothing is more dreadful than watching 5


### your child's body go completely limp because they 6


### are not getting enough oxygen. The trips to the 7


### emergency room when we watch helplessly as this 8


### little body is pumped full of drugs. The 9


### sleepless nights spent monitoring him to make 10


### sure he can breathe or being afraid every time 11



### that I send him to school or summer cam p that 12


### he'll get sick and his symptoms will worsen. 13


### I check the air quality index every day 14


### especially in the summer to know what we're up 15


### against. I have also watched my father, who grew 16


### up in Beaumont, Texas surrounded by oil 17


### refineries have to be put on oxygen 24/7. He has 18


### never smoked and he is an active and very healthy 19


### man. So this has been especially hard on him and 20


### on our family. 21


### In my role as the air quality programs 22

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### manager at the American Lung Association in 1


### Colorado, I spend a lot of time working in 2


### schools helping parents, teachers, and students 3


### understand the impact of personal actions on both 4


### the environment and their health. I have parents 5


### who are nearly in tears when they come to 6



### understand what is in the exhaust from our 7



### vehicles an d what pollutants are being spewed 8


### into the air by power plants and industry. Many 9



### of them also have children with asthma or know a 10


### child with asthma and know how devastating and 11


### frightening it can be. 12


### It's especially frustrating when they 13



### know that the re are things that could be done to 14


### reduce pollution, but they aren't being done. 15


### If you have ever been in the vicinity of 16



### a coal

- fired power plant, you have seen and 17


### likely smelled the pollutants coming from the 18


### smoke stack. Political dogma aside, doe sn't 19


### common sense tell you that what's coming out of 20



### those smoke stacks cannot be good for us. 21


### Carbon dioxide is the primary greenhouse 22

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### gas pollutant and it is a well

- known scientific 1


### fact that carbon dioxide traps heat. Warmer 2


### temperatures increase le vels of ground

- level 3


### ozone which exacerbate a myriad of lung issues. 4


### When inhaled ozone literally burns lung tissue. 5


### The EPA's clean power plan is a 6


### commonsense solution that will help move our 7


### nation away from high

- polluting, electricity 8


### generation an d will allow Colorado to take 9


### advantage of its abundant sources of renewable 10


### energy like solar and wind. 11


### This creates jobs as industry R&D 12


### facilities and entrepreneurs come together to 13


### develop and implement newer, cleaner 14


### technologies. 15



### I want my son to g row up in a country 16


### that values the health and wellbeing of its 17


### citizens above the interests of industry. I want 18


### him to grow up being able to run, hike, and bike 19


### and not have to worry about the the air that he 20


### is breathing. That's why I urge strong suppo rt 21



### for the EPA's clean power plan. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 2



### Our next two speakers Elise Jones, Kurt 3



### Huber. 4


### MS. JONES: Good afternoon. My name is 5


### Elise Jones and I'm a county commissioner for 6


### Boulder County and it's an honor to be here today 7


### representing Boulder County and providing 8



### comments on this historic rule. 9


### I will start by expressing my sincere 10


### thanks to the administration and the EPA for your 11


### leadership in creating this plan to cut carbon 12


### pollution. 13


### Now only is this rule urgently nee ded, 14


### but it's also very achievable for Colorado. We 15


### strongly support the rule, but in Boulder County 16


### we of course have a few suggestions on how it 17


### might be strengthened, of course. 18


### Boulder County residents have long placed 19


### a high priority on environment al sustainability 20


### making it a guiding principle for our county. 21


### Since 1996 Boulder County has moved aggressively 22

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### to implement innovative and effective greenhouse 1


### gas emission reduction strategies. These include 2


### one of the first and very successful proper ty 3


### assessment energy loan programs, adoption of 4


### progressively more stringent building codes, 5


### including our ambitious build smart regulations 6


### and a sustainable energy plan designed to reduce 7


### greenhouse gas emissions by 3.6 million metric 8


### tons of CO2 equival ent and to save more than $445 9


### million by 2020. 10


### Guided by our energy plan and years of 11


### planning in 2011 Boulder County, in collaboration 12


### with the city and county of Denver and several 13



### communities launched one of the most successful 14



### models of demand side m anagement also called 15


### energy smart service. 16



### In Boulder County alone through energy 17



### smart we've been able to reach 12,000 homes and 18


### 3,400 businesses helping owners install 19


### efficiency and clean energy improvements. This 20



### program has not only helped curb o ur carbon 21



### emissions, but it's also been an enormous 22

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### economic driver for our county, supporting local 1


### energy contractors and investing $25 million into 2



### our local economy. 3



### Based on its model and the success we've 4


### seen with it, we agree with EPA's conclusion of 5


### demand side management and energy efficiency as 6


### one of the building blocks of the state 7


### implementation plan. 8



### However, we recommend the EPA consider a 9


### 2 percent savings target instead of a 1.5 percent 10


### target as proposed. This can be achieved with 11



### st rong monitoring and verification guidelines and 12


### direction from EPA to spur new technologies as 13


### well as more permanent projects such as combined 14



### heat and power systems. 15



### We also support EPA's focus on renewable 16


### energy generation and the development of 17



### renew able energy targets, but we think this too 18



### could be strengthened. EPA's own analysis of the 19


### impacts of this rule demonstrates that this 20


### regulation will not likely have a significant 21


### impact in increasing renewable energy generation 22

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### because the regulation p lace targets below the 1


### current renewable portfolio standards like 2



### Colorado's. 3


### Setting a low floor for RPS states will 4


### not create enough of an incentive to move these 5



### states forward where they need to go. For that 6


### reason we believe stronger analysis and g uidance 7



### would be needed here. 8


### And then with respect to redispatched 9


### natural gas capacity we strongly recommend that 10


### EPA fully analyze natural gas production 11


### practices to ensure that leaks in the production 12


### process do not negate potential CO2 benefits of 13


### this provision. And again save Colorado's 14


### important work on this. 15



### So while Colorado is considered a 16


### national leader in growing a clean energy economy 17


### and is therefore approaching this rule from a 18


### very strong position, we also want to ensure that 19



### the sta te implementation plan resulting from this 20


### rule really pushes Colorado forward and brings 21



### other states along. 22

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### Addressing climate change is the urgent 1


### imperative in our region where we are already 2


### experiencing the impacts of a warming climate in 3



### the form of more intense and more frequent 4


### droughts, wildflowers

-- wildflowers?

-- 5



### wildfires and extreme weather events. 6


### Indeed, my county is still recovering 7


### from the devastating effects of last September's 8


### catastrophic floods. We anticipate that the 9


### final p rice tag for this county infrastructure 10


### and recovery alone will be 200 million. And this 11



### disaster came on the heels of the 2010 four

- mile 12


### canyon fire which at the time was the most 13


### expensive and destructive wildfire in Colorado 14


### history. 15



### So as ground ze ro to some of the most 16


### damaging weather events in our state's history we 17



### know firsthand how critical it is that we 18


### collectively work to reduce greenhouse gas 19


### emissions before the climate crisis heightens. 20


### We simply can't afford to wait. 21



### So thank you ag ain for moving forward 22

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### with the clean power plan. 1



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 2



### MR. HUBER: Good afternoon, I'm Kurt 3



### Huber and I'm the executive director of the 4


### American Lung Association in Colorado. And I do 5


### want to thank you for taking the time to hold 6



### thes e two days of hearings here on the carbon 7


### pollution standards. 8


### I am not an expert on coal fired power 9


### plant operations, but I do know that pollution 10


### generated by power plants makes people sick and 11



### can cut life short. 12



### We already know that ground level oz one 13


### and particulate matter pollution can cause 14


### difficulty in breathing, asthma attacks and 15


### premature deaths. Ozone pollution has been 16


### linked to limiting the growth lung function in 17


### infants which is a serious concern given that 80 18


### percent of a child's lung capacity develops after 19



### birth. 20


### Actions that cut carbon pollution to meet 21


### the goals under this plan would prevent up to 22

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### 4,100 premature deaths, and 100,000 asthma 1


### attacks in children just in the year 2020. And 2


### if we look at the year 2030, it would preven t up 3



### to 6,600 premature deaths and about 150,000 4



### asthma attacks in children. 5


### The American Lung Association is 6


### committed to fighting carbon pollution because it 7


### can help us save lives and improve lung health. 8


### I do not personally have a lung disease, 9



### but I do like to hike here in Colorado, like many 10



### of us, and it does concern me to know that when 11


### we're partaking of hiking or exercise that 12


### sometimes we could also be breathing in things 13



### that are actually harmful to our health when 14


### we're trying to be more he althy. If it's of a 15


### concern just for regular people and athletes, 16


### it's certainly a concern for people with chronic 17


### disease or who are elderly, who are very young, 18



### or who live near to a coal

- fired power plant. 19


### We urge the Environmental Protection 20



### Agency to set a final plan within a year that 21


### provides the strongest limits on carbon 22

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### pollution, anything less shortchanges our future, 1



### our health, and our children. 2



### Thank you. 3



### COL FABIAN: Thank you. 4



### Next two speakers, Dex Sloan, and 5



### Elizabeth House. Mr. Sloan. 6



### MR. SLOAN: Good afternoon, I am Dex 7


### Sloan, the senior vice president at Arch Coal, 8


### Incorporated. I appreciate the opportunity to 9


### share the following comments in response to EPA's 10


### proposed greenhouse gas emissions for existing 11


### electric generating units. 12


### By way of introduction, Arch is one of 13


### the largest coal producers in the United States. 14


### During 2013 we sold approximately 140 million 15


### tons of coal which represented about 14 percent 16



### of total U.S. coal supply. 17



### We employ more than 5,000 people and 18


### produce coal from mines located in seven states, 19


### shipping over 80 percent of our production to 20



### U.S. power generators. 21


### The transformation of our goal into a 22

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### low

- cost, stable flow of electricity is a vital 1



### national service. We are concerned that EPA's 2



### prop osed regulations will diminish coal's 3


### essential role in the nation's energy mix and in 4


### the process result in additional costs to U.S. 5


### consumers, a weaker national economy, and a less 6


### reliable power grid. 7


### What will Americans get in exchange? 8


### Very little. The goal of the EPA proposal is to 9



### reduce the emissions of heat

- trapping gases into 10



### the atmosphere. However, U.S. power plants are 11


### only responsible for about 4 percent of such 12


### emissions. If finalized, the proposed rule would 13


### reduce global GHG emissions by less than 1 14


### percent at a cost projected by the agency of $4.2 15


### to 8.8 billion per year. 16


### EPA further estimates that its proposed 17


### rule will increase electric rates by 6 to 7 18


### percent nationally. It's unclear whether those 19


### estimates will prove optimistica lly low. What is 20


### clear is that states that rely heavily on coal 21


### for power generation particularly those in 22

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### America's industrial heartland will be hit much 1



### harder. 2


### It's also important to recognize that 3


### rate increases will fall disproportionately on 4



### the least advantaged economically, those who pay 5


### proportionately more of their income for energy. 6


### And the increases will place a significant burden 7


### on U.S. businesses that compete in world markets, 8



### businesses for which low

- cost energy is a 9


### critical operating advantage. 10



### Th e remarkable reliability of America's 11


### power grid could prove another casualty of the 12


### proposed rule. The power supply in the U.S. is 13


### reliable because of adequate, non

- intermittent, 14


### base load generating capacity, capacity fueled 15


### predominantly by coal. 16


### The risk of the effort to shift away from 17


### coal is exacerbated by the fact that already 18


### promulgated regulations are expected to result in 19


### the closure of up to 20 percent of America's 20



### installed coal

- based capacity over the next five 21


### years even wi thout EPA's proposed greenhouse gas 22

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### regulations. 1



### To put our foot on the regulatory 2



### accelerator now before know how the power system 3


### will react, such a significant closure event 4


### seems ill advised, imprudent and unwise. It is 5



### also worthwhile to consider th e permissibility 6


### and feasibility of what EPA is proposing. 7



### Arch believes that Section 111(d) 8


### provides EPA with narrow authority to set 9


### emission standards based solely on emissions 10



### reductions that can be achieved inside the fence 11


### line. As such, only the r eductions resulting 12


### from actions taken under EPA's proposed building 13


### block one may lawfully be recognized. Building 14



### blocks two through four, as proposed by the 15


### agency, are outside the fence line and the agency 16


### does not have the expansive statutory authori ty 17


### to recognize them as the best system of emission 18



### reduction. 19


### Even if permissible, it is not at all 20



### clear that it is feasible for states to meet the 21


### proposed required emissions reductions. Under 22

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### building block one, EPA posits that a 6 percent 1


### improvemen t in heat rate is possible with 4 2


### percent coming from adopting operating and 3


### maintenance best practices. EPA presumes that 4


### plant operators do not already run and maintain 5


### their facilities according to best practices so 6


### as to minimize unit power production costs. That 7


### seems illogical and unlikely. 8


### The other building blocks seems equally 9


### ambitious and fraught with uncertainty. For 10


### example, building block two increased utilization 11


### of combined cycle natural gas plants presupposes 12


### that pipeline and other inf rastructure is 13


### adequate or can be built to enable plants to 14


### operate at 70 percent capacity factors. 15


### Building block three assumes, among other 16


### things, a significant acceleration in the growth 17


### of renewables despite their intermittency. 18


### Building block fou r assumes that states 19


### can achieve an annualized energy savings of 1.5 20


### percent without constraining or stalling economic 21



### growth. 22

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### In short the building blocks stack 1



### ambition on ambition and risk on risk. 2


### In summary, EPA's proposal negligibly 3



### reduces gree nhouse gas emissions, imposes higher 4


### costs electricity on U.S. households and 5


### industry, reduces the reliability of the grid and 6


### is neither permissible under the law nor 7


### technically feasible. For these reasons we 8


### respectfully request that the agency withdr aw its 9



### proposal. Thank you. 10



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 11


### DR. HOUSE: My name is Dr. Elizabeth 12


### House and I'm speaking today as a concerned 13


### citizen and also as a representative of the 14


### Denver Chapter of Citizens Climate Lobby. CCL is 15



### a U.S.

- based nonprofit wo rking toward 16



### establishment of a federal carbon tax and 17



### dividend. 18


### I want to start by telling you how much 19


### we appreciate your hard work and also for holding 20


### these hearings so that citizens like me may share 21



### our concerns. 22

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### Our society and our government ten d to 1



### take a short

- term view of events and to respond 2


### to the immediate concerns of special interests 3


### and constituents. Perhaps that's a human 4



### attribute to look at the short term. 5


### But today you are addressing the most 6


### pressing issue currently facing our re gion, our 7


### nation and our world and you are taking the long 8


### view which is essentially in addressing an issue 9


### that requires immediate action and which will be 10


### affecting us for the foreseeable and the 11



### unforeseeable future. 12


### We are hearing a lot today in thes e 13


### hearings about losses, real losses that will 14


### affect many individuals and families as well as 15


### losses of corporate profits. The losses that 16



### concern me most are those faced by the coal 17


### miners as the pollution created by burning coal 18


### is increasingly recogni zed as unsustainably 19


### costly to our region. 20



### The financial and human costs of carbon 21


### pollution are no longer deniable and we must 22

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### address those costs now. But we also recognize 1



### that there is a human cost to economic and social 2



### change. 3



### I'd like to talk to day about gains 4


### because that's really what these regulations will 5


### bring to Colorado and our region. I would like 6


### to ask the EPA to explicitly list a tax on carbon 7


### in the final rules as one of the means by which 8


### states can reach compliance. Though a carbo n tax 9


### would be directed at carbon pollution, it would 10


### also help states comply with standards for other 11


### fossil fuel byproducts like mercury, 12


### particulates, the nitrogen oxides, the sulfur 13



### dioxides. 14


### A carbon tax is widely recognized by 15



### economists both libe ral and conservative as the 16


### most economically efficient and cost effective 17


### way to reduce carbon pollution. 18



### If all of the revenue collected by the 19



### tax is returned to households in the form a 20


### dividend then families will be protected from 21


### rising energy cost s and the economy of the region 22

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### will benefit. Numerous studies including one 1


### recently conducted by the nonpartisan firm 2


### Regional Economic Modeling, Inc., have shown 3


### significant economic benefits in our region in 4


### terms of rising GDP and household income, a boost 5


### to small businesses developing clean energy 6


### technology and materials, reduced health costs, 7


### and thousands of jobs created in the clean energy 8



### sector. 9



### Now, revenue neutral carbon tax is a 10



### market

- based solution that would reduce carbon 11


### pollution wh ile benefitting families and the 12


### economy in the region. In a time of budget 13


### constraints, it's also the simplest and the most 14


### effective way to reach compliance with EPA 15



### standards. 16



### I respectfully request that the EPA 17



### include a state, revenue

- neutral carbo n tax in 18


### the final rule as one of the ways that states can 19


### comply with the new regulations. 20


### Thank you for giving me time to speak 21



### here today. 22

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### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 1


### Next two speakers, Chris Stanely, Lucinda 2



### Schneller. Lucinda Schneller. Gerrod Brown ? 3



### Mr. Stanley. 4



### DR. STANLEY: Thank you very much. 5


### Thank you very much for the opportunity 6


### to speak this afternoon. My name is Dr. Chris 7



### Stanley and I am here to echo all of the other 8


### comments that are in support of adopting tighter 9


### regulation regardin g carbon pollution. Since 10



### 2008 I have served on the council

-- excuse me, 11


### that leadership council of the American Lung 12



### Association in Colorado and I am the current 13



### chair. 14


### The Lung Association's mission is to save 15


### lives by improving lung health and prev enting 16


### lung disease. With that mission my fellow 17



### council members and I have worked and continue to 18


### work to help make the air cleaner and healthier 19


### for everyone in Colorado. 20


### I'm also a pediatrician and I've seen and 21


### heard about the impact that poor air quality has 22

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### on our health, especially the children of 1



### Colorado. 2



### For several years I've had the great 3


### opportunity to serve the state of Colorado on the 4


### Board of Health as well, focusing on public 5


### health opportunities across our state. I'm here 6



### today to t ell you that we need strong carbon 7



### standards to protect the lung health of everyone 8


### in Colorado, but especially those who suffer from 9


### lung disease. 10


### Tens of thousands of people in Colorado 11



### have chronic or life

- long lung disease that that 12



### can be serious, e ven life threatening. 13



### More than 461,600 of my Colorado 14


### residents have asthma, including 108,000 15


### children. We have a quarter of a million people 16


### diagnosed with chronic obstructive pulmonary 17


### disease, a lung disease that over time makes it 18



### harder and harde r to breathe. They are a small 19



### group of the people who are more vulnerable to 20


### the impacts of changing climate in Colorado, a 21


### list that includes all children, not just those 22

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### with asthma and older adults including people 1



### with cardiovascular disease and diab etes. 2


### As a pediatrician I have seen how 3


### unhealthy air days impact a family from a child 4


### who cannot go to school because his asthma made 5


### him cough all night to the parent who lost a 6



### day's wages to stay at home and take care of 7



### their sick child. 8


### The impa ct of addressing carbon pollution 9


### can help patients immediately. Steps to reduce 10


### carbon pollution will cut emissions of other 11


### toxic air pollutants including nitrogen oxides, 12


### sulfur dioxide and mercury, and it will also 13


### reduce ozone and particula te matter pollution 14


### across wide parts o f the nation even beyond 15


### Colorado's borders. Cutting carbon pollution 16


### will remove pollutants that are dangerous for 17


### patients, my family, and frankly for them

. 18



### I urge the EPA to adopt the strongest 19


### possible carbon pollution standards in the clean 20


### power plan to protect the public health now and 21



### in the future. 22

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### Thank you very much. 1



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Mr. Brown? 2


### MR. BROWN: First, hello, and thank you 3


### all for the opportunity to speak here today. My 4



### name is Gerard Brown and I'm here to represent 5



### one of the states that is on the frontlines of 6


### climate change in the United States. 7



### As a recent transplant to Denver from 8



### South Carolina, I know all too well the effects 9


### that change is already having in one our 10



### countries' most wonderful regions. 11


### My testimony will primarily deal with the 12


### damaging effects climate change is and will have 13


### on my home state as well as delve into why these 14


### regulations are a small step in the right 15



### direction. 16



### In the past century sea levels along the 17


### Atlantic have already risen a foot and are expect 18


### to rise another five feet by the end of the 19


### century. Communities along the coast are 20


### scrambling to build walls and protect against the 21


### inevitable damage that will be done to the nearly 22

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### $150 billion worth o f infrastructure that lines 1


### the coast of South Carolina if this dangerous 2



### treatment continues. 3


### This method, as I'm sure many of you 4


### know, will ultimately do more harm than good to 5


### the beaches that provide much of the tourism to 6


### the region. Climate change will also reduce the 7



### amount of fresh water resources available in the 8


### northern regions of South Carolina and could lead 9


### to droughts in the region. 10


### These places in peril include sites where 11


### some of my best memories were created. Hollies 12



### Island where I first fell in love with the ocean, 13


### Myrtle Beach where my little cousin said her 14


### first words, and Charleston where my family 15


### frequently has family reunions, are just a few 16


### places that will be dramatically changed for the 17


### worse without the steadying hand of the EPA and 18


### the regulations they have proposed. 19



### As a young person, I have many more 20



### memories left to make. I don't want them to be 21


### about the hardships climate change will bring, 22

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### but instead I'm here speaking today because I 1


### want future generations to exp erience the wonders 2



### this world has to offer. Without these EPA 3


### regulations, the future of my beloved home state 4


### and a good portion of the southeast looks 5


### extremely grim. These regulations strike a very 6


### important balance between both sides of the 7



### debate b y giving states, and by extension the 8


### people, the freedom to decide how they would make 9


### meaningful progress towards cutting carbon 10



### emissions. 11


### The science is very clear and we need to 12


### act. The future of South Carolina hangs in the 13



### balance and these rule a cknowledge that while 14


### maintaining the agency that local communities 15



### currently have. 16



### So, please, I urge the EPA to move 17


### forward with these regulations and to help 18


### preserve our country before it's too late. Thank 19



### you. 20



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. I'll call Lu cinda 21


### Schneller again and Teresa Terry, and I apologize 22

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### if I mispronounce. Teresa Terry? Okay. Debra 1


### Shanaman? I apologize. 2



### Ms. Schneller. 3


### MS. SCHNELLER: Hi, my name is Lucinda 4


### Schneller. And I am here today with Colorado 5



### Moms Knows Best. A grou p of moms dedicated to 6


### protecting Colorado outdoors for the future of 7



### our kids' health. 8



### I have lived in Colorado for over 50 9


### years and graduated from CU Denver with a degree 10


### in civil engineering. I spent my entire career 11


### in government service with three different 12


### agencies. As one of those damned engineers, I 13



### worked with the Bureau of Reclamation as a 14


### designer in concrete dams. I went on to manage 15



### multi

- million dollar projects and construction 16


### projects for the Fish and Wildlife Service. 17



### The most rewar ding job was with the U.S. 18


### Forest Service Job Corps program. As a program 19


### manager I provided engineering support for 28 Job 20


### Corps centers located throughout the United 21



### States. However, the most absolute most 22

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### challenging job I ever had is being a mother. 1


### And this job continues to become even more 2


### challenging. 3


### I come here today in full support of the 4


### the EPA's proposed clean air standards and the 5


### work you are doing to protect my family. It 6


### seems reasonable and obvious that we place a 7



### clear national limit on excessive carbon 8


### emissions and actively combat against heat 9


### stress, air integrity, extreme weather and the 10


### numerous problems that will arise from their 11



### effects. 12


### As a mother I am not willing to sacrifice 13


### the health of our children for the profits of 14



### e nergy companies putting the bottom line over 15



### that of our children's health is unconscionable. 16


### I am looking forward to being a 17


### grandmother some day, but my kids worry about 18


### having a family because of the environmental 19


### uncertainties. They are unsure if a future in 20


### Colorado will continue to be a safe place to 21


### raise a family. 22

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### Not only is my

-- I have two sons

-- not 1


### only is my older son, Tyson, concerned about 2


### raising kids in poor environmental conditions, he 3


### is also deeply concerned for the fate of his 4



### liv elihood as an organic farmer. He has been an 5


### organic farmer in the small town of Paonia on the 6



### western slope of Colorado for nearly a decade. 7


### He sells much of high

- quality produce around the 8



### western slope and mostly to his established 9



### customers. He has witnessed the effects of 10


### extreme hot weather as his yearly supply of the 11


### most important resource for growing produce is 12


### increasingly becoming less available, that's 13



### water. 14


### Our food producers are critical to our 15


### health and producers like my son Tyson wait with 16


### uncertainty every winter to see whether or not 17


### there's enough snowfall to support their crops. 18


### He has seen first hand the painful drought that 19


### hit Colorado two years ago when he was not able 20


### to adequately supply his customers with all the 21



### produce the y needed. 22

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### As parents my husband and I have always 1


### done our best to keep our family healthy by 2


### eating properly, exercising, seeking health care 3



### when needed and so forth. But now no matter how 4


### responsible or meticulous our family is about 5


### maintaining stron g health practices, our health 6


### is in jeopardy from actions of others. We are 7


### simply asking that my kids and my future 8


### grandkids are able to breathe healthy, clean air, 9


### something I used to take for granted. 10



### Your recommended carbon emissions 11



### standards are reasonable steps to protect our air 12


### for future generations. Thank you for your 13


### efforts and for giving us the opportunity to 14


### speak up about why this matters to Colorado. 15



### Thank you. 16



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 17


### MS. SHANAMAN: My name is Debra Shanaman. 18



### I am the Environmental Services and Compliance 19


### Director for the Platt River Power Authority in 20



### Fort Collins, Colorado. 21


### I want to thank you for the opportunity 22

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### to comment today on the important issue of carbon 1


### emissions. Platt River Power Authority is a 2


### polit ical subdivision of the state of Colorado. 3


### Platt River was formed by the municipalities of 4


### Estes Park, Fort Collins, Longmont and Loveland. 5


### And we provide wholesale power to these 6


### communities. Like the municipal utilities we 7



### serve, Platt River is a non profit municipal 8


### utility. 9



### In 2013 the Platt River board of 10


### directors adopted a strategic plan to analyze 11


### diversification of our resource portfolio in a 12


### manner designed to reduce carbon emissions. The 13


### guidance from our board includes a 20 percent 14



### reductio n in carbon emissions by 2020 and an 80 15


### percent reduction by 2050. Consequently the 16


### direction from our board tracks with the pending 17


### rulemaking. 18


### Although I've been immersed in this issue 19



### since June 2nd, as have numerous other staff 20



### members at Platt Riv er, as an organization Platt 21


### River is still analyzing this complicated 22

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### proposal. 1


### We plan to make detailed written comments 2


### at a later date. In the time allotted today I 3


### will focus on two important concerns. 4



### First Platt River has serious concerns 5



### abou t how the four building blocks were analyzed 6


### to identify the emission guidelines for Colorado. 7


### Specifically we believe that Colorado is being 8


### unfairly penalized for being proactive in its 9


### approach to carbon emissions. By employing 2012 10


### as a starting poin t in its analysis, the EPA 11



### fails to credit much of what Colorado utilities 12


### did during the first decade of this century. 13


### Let me give you one example. The first 14


### building block assumes 6 percent efficiency 15


### improvement at the generation source. Beginning 16



### in 2005 Platt River invested $16.5 million to 17


### improve the heat rate of Rawhide Unit One north 18


### of Forth Collins. These efficiency improvements 19



### were completed by 2009 and lowered the heat rate 20



### by 4.1 percent. 21


### Additional incremental efficiency 22

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### improvements a re technically possible, but Platt 1


### River has already taken the biggest possible 2


### bite. Failure to recognize incentives that 3


### occurred prior to 2012 penalizes proactive 4


### utilities by disadvantaging them relative to 5



### utilities that have failed to address the is sue. 6


### Moreover, failure to recognize and credit 7


### concrete actions taken prior to 2012 results in a 8


### state target that is unrealistic. 9


### Second, the proposed rule establishes an 10


### average emission rate for the period 2020 through 11


### 2029. This is unnecessary and c reates needless 12



### administrative difficulties. 13


### To achieve the 2030 emission goals 14


### additions and removals of generation assets will 15


### be a significant element of many compliance 16


### efforts. This is particularly true for Platt 17


### River Power Authority which does n ot operate any 18


### natural gas combined cycle generation. 19


### Changes in the makeup of a resource 20


### portfolio take a long period of time to plan and 21


### implement and are by their nature lumpy. The 22

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### commissioning or decommissioning of resources 1


### cerates significant issu es associated with rate 2


### impacts and reliability. 3


### To the extent that the significant 4


### portfolio changes needs to be made subsequent to 5


### 2020, it may not be possible to meet the average 6


### emission rates set forth in the proposed rule. 7


### Simply put, the extensiv e nature of the 8


### changes required by this rule means that 9


### utilities may reasonably require a glide path 10


### longer than the time allowed between the 11


### finalization of this rule and 2020 to modify 12


### their portfolios. 13


### If left unchanged the rule will 14


### unavoidably pen alize utilities that are 15


### undertaking bona fide, yet prudent, efforts to 16


### compliance through modification of their resource 17


### portfolio s that necessarily extend beyond 2020

. 18


### Platt River suggests that the EPA set a 19


### reasonable emissions goal for 2030 and trust the 20


### states to develop reasonable compliance plans to 21


### achieve reductions rather than specifying fixed 22

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### interim requirements, the effect of which may be 1


### to complicate compliance. 2


### In summary, carbon emissions are 3


### significant issue. It is reasonable to expe ct 4


### electric utilities to assist in meeting the 5


### challenge involved in curbing carbon emissions. 6


### But to ensure the smoothest possible 7


### implementation the final rule must be perceived 8


### as fair and subject to effective, but flexible 9


### implementation by the states

. 10


### Not only must past efforts be recognized 11


### and taken into account, but it's also important 12



### to ensure that the final rule avoids 13


### implementation pitfalls that fail to recognize 14


### the practical realities of resource portfolio 15


### management and reliable utility o peration. 16


### Thank you for the opportunity to comment. 17



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 18



### Our next speakers Teresa Paterry, Ivor 19



### Douglas. Ms. Paterry? 20



### MS. PATERRY: Yes, ready to start? 21



### MR. DAILY: Yes, please. 22

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### MS. PATERRY: Okay. Cool All rightey. 1



### To whom it may concern: Thank you for speaking 2


### with me today. My name is Teresa Paterry and I 3



### was born and raised in Florida. 4


### I'm a rising senior at Hamilton College 5


### in pursuit of a degree in psychology and 6


### communications. I am here today because change 7



### can be a ccomplished initially at a local level 8


### and the EPA's proposal to give states the power 9



### to enforce reductions in carbon emissions is a 10


### step in the right direction. 11


### I am here in support of the proposal, not 12



### only as a member of the millennial generation as 13



### w e are the generation that has to deal with 14


### climate change, but also as a first generation 15



### American. 16



### I have been fortunate to attend school in 17


### New York. Fulfill internships in Boston, and 18


### currently in Colorado. I've experienced strange 19



### and extreme weath er patterns in these regions as 20


### the years have progressed and believe we have the 21


### power to make a positive change. 22

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### Today my family lives just ten feet above 1


### sea level. Hurricane seasons have always been a 2


### part of our lifestyle as I was born during the 3



### a ftermath of horrendous Hurricane Andrew. 4



### My parents had to take care of two 5



### toddlers and me, a new born, for three weeks 6


### without any electricity or clean water. But 7


### that's just how it was for us. It was Florida, 8



### not the past tense. 9


### My friends and I relished in our 10


### hurricane breaks as we took advantage of the cool 11



### front

-- for bonfires in our school breaks. 12


### Growing up storms have decreased significantly 13



### and instead are now destined towards the 14


### northeast. Despite the break in storms, the 15



### rises in sea level, an increase in flooding has 16


### become apparent, which is scary. 17



### In fact, this extreme weather has moved 18


### up the coast along with me and is very concerning 19



### for the eastern seaboard. Freshman year, upstate 20


### New York was hit by a tropical storm. The 21



### anx iety shared by my friends from the northeast 22

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### caused me to open my eyes to the mass changes in 1


### weather patterns we noted the lack of preparation 2



### for these type of events. 3


### Sophomore year Hurricane Sandy was 4


### destined to hit us head on but changed its path 5



### la st minute. Unfortunately, New Jersey and parts 6


### of New York City are still dealing with the 7



### storm's aftermath. 8


### My friend's garage was flooded and she 9



### lost two cars as a result. 10



### I mention all of these extreme weather 11


### events because they have been so disru ptive 12


### deadly, and costly. But this is just the 13


### beginning because if we do not take any action, 14


### these extreme weather patterns will become more 15


### frequent and drastic. 16


### Back in Florida we are experiencing the 17



### most rain in recent months than ever before. 18



### T oday we are experiencing a rise in sea level. 19


### My home, since I came home from the hospital, 20


### holds many memories and as I mentioned is only 21



### ten feet above sea level. Please, we need to 22

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### make a positive change or else all that I have 1



### ever known will soon be under water. 2


### Our print on this earth may be 3


### irreversible, but help our generation take a 4



### stand and make a difference. 5



### Thank you. 6



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 7


### DR. DOUGLAS: Good afternoon, my name is 8


### Dr. Ivor Douglas. I'm the chief of pulmonary 9



### sciences, in other words, lung medicine and 10



### critical care medicine, at Denver Health Medical 11



### Center where I'm also the Director of the Medical 12


### Intensive Care Unit and I'm a professor of lung 13


### and intensive care medicine at the University of 14



### Colorado. 15



### I speak toda y in my role as the Chair of 16


### the American Thoracic Society where I am the 17


### chair of the health policy committee. The 18


### American Thoracic Society is a large professional 19


### society of over 14,000 physicians, scientists, 20


### nurses, and health professionals including 21


### specialists in lung, critical care, and sleep 22

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### medicine and we are responsible amongst our 1


### specialties for advancing the science and the 2


### care and well being of patients suffering from 3


### those diseases related to the lung and the 4


### respiratory system and critic al illnesses. And I 5


### will speak to some of those as they relate to the 6


### focus of this presentation. 7


### American Thoracic Society wishes to 8


### express very sincere and strong support for the 9


### EPA's proposed carbon emissions standards for 10



### power plants and we greatl y value and appreciate 11


### the EPA's presentational opportunity to discuss 12



### these here today. 13


### The research documenting the reality of 14


### climate change is comprehensive and compelling. 15


### The evidence that supports anthropogenic 16


### contributions to climate change is equally clear 17



### and incontrovertible. 18


### As a practicing clinician I've already 19



### seen some of the health effects of global change 20


### right here in Denver and I want to speak to two 21


### examples of that that are substantive and seen in 22

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### increasing numbers of cases over the last 1



### decades. 2


### The first is the most tangible, the early 3


### arrival of spring is impacting health and 4


### wellbeing for those who have allergies and even 5


### asthma. The high summer temperatures and the 6


### accompanying code orange and code red air 7


### pollution days a dversely affect patients with 8


### many lung diseases, but particularly those with 9


### asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease of 10


### which emphysema, smoking related, is frequently 11


### worsened, and other respiratory conditions. We 12


### absolutely in my intensive care u nit have seen a 13


### pattern that has become amplified earlier and 14


### earlier whereby as the early spring high pollen 15


### related directly to global warming and carbon 16


### emissions comes through and a large number of 17


### patients with underlying asthma that otherwise 18



### may hav e been well controlled become particularly 19



### unstable, become very unwell, and some of them 20


### develop breathing failure requiring critical 21



### care. 22

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### Exposure to agents including PM10s, 1


### particulate matters, as well as environmental 2


### changes have been established in the scientific 3


### literature to be causatively associated with 4



### those exacerbations of asthma. A second aspect 5


### relates to environmental warming with an aging 6


### population particularly in areas where there is 7


### an increasing micro internal migration of 8


### population s of older aged and Denver in Colorado 9


### is a good example of that. 10


### We see an increasing number of older 11


### Americans who are exposed to heated environments 12



### of greater and greater amounts who are less and 13


### less capable to regulate their body temperature 14



### and by the year the number of cases are 15


### increasing directly related to environmental 16


### warming as associate with carbon emissions in our 17


### environment. These patients have a high 18


### mortality rate and frequently require critical 19


### care support for those illnesses. 20



### Whi le my observations are partially 21



### anecdotal, they're well supported by the 22

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### scientific literature and fit a patter of 1


### predicted adverse health impacts associated with 2


### climate change. 3


### The American Thoracic Society recently 4


### published in our journal, the proce edings of the 5


### American Thoracic society a copy of which I will 6


### submit for the record, a workshop report entitled 7


### "Respiratory Health, Effects of Global Climate 8


### Change." I will leave for the Commission's later 9


### review that the workshop report explores 10


### respi ratory health effects of global climate 11


### change which include the following items, the 12


### changing pollen releases and their direct impact 13


### on asthma and allergic rhinitis, heat waves 14


### causing critical care related illnesses, climate 15


### driven air pollution changes , decertification 16


### including particulate matter increases directly 17


### related to global warming, and climate related 18


### changes in food and water security impacting 19


### infectious respiratory diseases through 20



### malnutrition. 21


### Because of the strength of the existing 22

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### dat a from multiple scientific disciplines, trends 1


### in weather patterns, sea temperatures, and ice 2



### measurements around the globe, and the breadth 3


### and severity of climate force human health issues 4


### the American Thoracic Society strongly urges the 5



### EPA to move forw ard with the proposed carbon 6


### emissions limits from existing power plants and 7



### stands ready to support with the additional 8


### evidence of science the proposals of the EPA. 9



### Thank you. 10



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 11



### Next two speakers, Rebecca Cohen, 12



### Dominion Barena

-- or I'm sorry, Berrera. You're 13



### Ms. Cohen? 14



### MS. COHEN: Yeah. 15



### MR. DAILY: Let me call one more, Taylor 16


### Smith. Rachel Garfunkle. We may be getting 17



### ahead of ourselves. I'll let you go ahead, Ms. 18



### Cohen. 19



### MS. COHEN: Okay. Well, thank you for 20



### you for the opportunity to speak today. My name 21


### is Rebecca Cohen, I'm 21 years old and I'm from 22

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### Denver, Colorado. 1



### I'm here today to support the carbon 2


### pollution standards. I support these standards 3


### because my generation is the group of people that 4



### will dramaticall y affected and will have to deal 5


### with the effects of climate change. These 6


### standards are the biggest step that the EPA has 7


### ever taken to fight climate change. 8



### Colorado has already done so much to 9


### fight climate change through our renewable energy 10



### standa rds. This state is a leader on the issue. 11


### And through these standards more states will 12


### begin to follow our example. 13


### All summer I have been organizing young 14


### people to submit comment cards in support of the 15


### rulemaking. We ran into different types of 16



### peop le, many who were very excited about these 17



### new standards and a few who were adamantly 18


### against them. These are normal reactions when 19


### canvassing on an issue. But we talked to many 20


### young people who were very excited that there 21



### could be new standards. They knew that power 22

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### plants were a huge source or carbon emissions and 1


### wanted to do something about it. 2


### Young people have bee ready for this kind 3


### of action on climate change for a long time. And 4


### our generation is well aware that this is just 5


### the beginning. W e can bike to work, we can drink 6



### from reusable water bottles, and we can take 7



### shorter showers. But until there is true 8


### institutional change and enforcement, we will 9


### continue down this path of destruction. These 10


### new standards are the beginning to the 11



### inst itutional change that we need. Without these 12


### regulations or the ones to come after, my 13


### generation will be living in and raising families 14



### on a dangerous planet. 15



### The extreme weather here in Colorado 16



### would mean more wildfires, bark beetles, and the 17



### destruct ion of the beautiful places I went as a 18


### kid. Without drastic changes, these places are 19


### not ones that I will be able to share with my 20


### children. It also means living in and raising 21


### new life and conditions that will cause many 22

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### health problems. 1



### I support t hese new carbon pollution 2


### standards because it's a great first step in 3


### making this planet a place that we will enjoy to 4


### live years from now. 5



### We need to clean up the mess that we've 6


### made, or we're leaving it for future generations. 7



### These standards are a s tep in the right 8



### direction. 9


### Thank you for your time. 10



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. And you are? 11


### MS. SMITH: My name is Taylor Smith. 12



### MR. DAILY: Oh, okay. Thank you. 13



### Go ahead, Ms. Smith. 14



### MS. SMITH: Howdy. Thank you for the 15


### opportunity to speak today. My name is Taylor 16



### Smith and I'm a resident of Houston, Texas 17


### working Colorado for the summer and attending 18


### Texas A&M University. I love my home state. I'm 19


### happy to admit that I'm a loud and proud Texan. 20


### And I've even more proud to be a Houstonian. 21



### As much as I love my state though, I am 22

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### beyond disappointed with their standards in air 1


### quality and climate control. Texas has the 2


### highest carbon emissions within the United 3


### States. And with that being said, I am here 4



### today to show my support to the new EPA 5


### regulations. 6


### I'm here representing myself and the ones 7


### who will suffer from the destructive consequence 8


### if these are not implemented. 9


### In 2011 a major drought was declared in 10


### Texas and to this day 70 percent of Texas still 11


### remains in major drought condi tions. As a lead 12


### official for an organization that administers 13



### long

- terms camps and trips for the Boy Scouts of 14


### America, my campers and I have felt this 15


### directly. We have been very limited on our 16


### access to campsites and had to cancel multiple 17


### trips due t o drought danger and burn bands. 18


### Also another contributing factor to the 19


### drought and also one of the worst impacts from 20


### climate change is the increasingly killer heat. 21



### And I mean that in the most literal sense. 22

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### Texas now has the highest heat death 1



### r ates in the United States. Rates such as these 2



### will continue to increase as these extreme 3


### weather patterns continue, showing the true 4


### consequences of climate change. Consequences 5


### that will only worsen without action. 6


### These consequences are having notice able 7


### effects in Texas. But they can be noted across 8



### the board as a nation. In states all across the 9


### country rises in pollution, temperature and sea 10


### levels are being experienced by all American 11



### citizens. However, some states like Colorado 12



### have put measur es into action to combat such 13


### things. 14



### I find much comfort in the fact that this 15


### beautiful state has taken greater steps towards 16


### using cleaner energy. I believe that climate 17


### change has the potential to be the most harmful 18



### occurrence to human life and ea rth. However, I 19



### have a lot of home in the fact that as humans we 20


### have the power to change this potentially 21


### cataclysmic run. And I believe that these new 22

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### EPA regulations are a great way to do so. 1


### I believe that my generation and our 2



### future families will be the ones to suffer these 3


### consequences of an unaddressed climate change. 4


### But I also believe that it's important to keep in 5


### mind that what we do in the present to revert 6


### back from the past will determine our future. 7


### These regulations have been the big gest 8



### move that America has made to address this 9


### undeniable issue and I'm eager to see these 10


### implemented. I am proud of the first step that 11


### the United States has taken towards bettering our 12


### environment for generations to come. 13



### Lastly, I wanted to be rem embered that I 14


### am simply a caring and concerned citizen. I 15


### dread that these impacts will be detrimental to 16


### my future, my life and the future lives of my 17


### generation an their children. I hope that my 18


### testimony shows my strong support for these 19


### regulations and my hope for more to come. 20



### Thank you. 21



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 22

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### I'll call a couple names. I've called 1



### before, Dom Berrera, Rachel Garfunkle, Alyssa 2



### Evans, Katrina Keller. 3



### Ms. Evans? 4



### MS. EVANS: Thank you and good afternoon. 5


### My name is Alyssa and I am a student in Denver. 6


### I am here as a young concerned citizen. 7



### I came today to support the EPA's 8


### proposed rules because they provide our nation 9


### with a much needed step in the right direction in 10


### our global fight against climate change. 11



### These rules would encourage other states 12



### to follow the lead of states like Colorado where 13


### we have already made great strides in combating 14


### climate change through our own regulations. 15


### Colorado voters passed their own renewable energy 16



### standard ten years ago and restreng thened it in 17


### 2010. And earlier this year Colorado became the 18


### first state in the country to regulate methane 19


### emissions from oil and gas operations. 20



### I follow this important rulemaking and 21


### know it will address the increasing threat that 22

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### air pollution here poses to our beloved 1



### environment and to our residents' health. 2


### Time and time again the state of Colorado 3



### has worked to reduce carbon emissions and has 4



### made an effort to transition to cleaner, more 5


### renewable forms of energy. However, localized 6



### efforts ca n only help so much. I have lived in 7


### multiple states and have experienced various 8


### effects of climate change. 9


### In 2012 I was caught in the lower 10


### Manhattan blackout with no running water for 11


### several days due to Hurricane Sandy. 12


### While growing up in Hawaii , I witnessed 13



### the threats of ocean acidification to coral reefs 14


### that jeopardizes the local ecosystem and the 15


### tourism industry which is central to Hawaii's 16



### economy. 17



### Colorado too has seen some extreme 18


### weather and drought conditions increasing the 19



### chances o f more and larger wildfires that will 20


### devastate the state. While I am happy that 21



### Colorado has taken strides to reduce carbon 22

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### emissions, improve air quality and utilize 1


### cleaner energy, I also know that these actions 2


### need to be implemented on a much larger scale. 3


### Climate change is not limited to specific 4



### areas and thus we shouldn't limit our actions 5


### against climate change to specific areas. 6


### I'm here to voice my support of the EPA's 7


### proposed rules on reducing power utilities carbon 8



### emissions because I reco gnize that individual 9



### efforts are not enough and that these federal 10


### guidelines are necessary. Every state should 11


### have efforts to improve air quality, to increase 12


### power plant efficiency, and to transition to 13



### cleaner forms of energy. These proposed rules 14



### e nsure just that. 15


### As a part of a generation that will have 16


### to increasingly face the effects of climate 17


### change, I would like to urge the EPA to finalize 18


### and implement these rules to make a nationally 19


### unified effort to combat climate change. 20



### Thank you. 21



### M R. DAILY: Thank you. 22

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### MS. KELLER: I am Katrina Keller. I am a 1



### 22

- year

- old college graduate from the University 2


### of Montana. I'm from Chicago initially and I'm 3


### working with Environment Colorado this summer on 4


### their climate campaign and I'm a climate def ense 5


### organizer in Fort Collins. So I don't really 6


### have anything prepared because I didn't actually 7


### reserve a time slot to speak until just now. 8


### So sorry that I'm literally drenched in 9


### water and don't really have anything to say 10


### besides I support the pl an and I've spoken to 11


### literally thousands of people across the country 12


### in Fort Collins either when they're visiting or 13


### they're locals, or they're just

-- they're on 14


### vacation. And I've spoken to thousands of people 15


### just this summer in the past two months a nd they 16


### have kind of overwhelming supported the plan on a 17



### really great scale. 18


### So you meet resistance kind of wherever 19


### you go, but I've seen some really positive kind 20


### of responses to the plan just in an overall 21


### genuine honest opinion of my own in fact. S o 22

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### something that I've seen. 1


### And thanks so much for proposing this and 2


### I really hope that it doesn't get weakened or 3


### anything because this is huge. So, thanks. 4



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 5



### Okay. Amy Kessler, Ashley Edi nger. Ms. 6



### Kessler? 7



### MS. KESSLER: He llo, my name is Amy 8



### Kessler and today I am here to represent myself 9


### as a millennial. My generation cares about the 10


### environment and supports action on climate 11



### change, but we have not yet been able to make the 12


### kind of change that our country needs in order to 13


### address this urgent problem of climate change. 14



### With these new rules, the EPA has an 15


### opportunity to enforce a meaningful and powerful 16


### change. For the sake of my generation and those 17


### to come, it is vital that these EPA regulations 18


### be put into effect. 19



### If we do not take bold action on climate 20


### change now, we are cheating future generations, 21


### robbing them of the opportunity to experience our 22

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### natural environment. 1


### I was lucky enough to be born and raised 2


### in Montana and was able to experience Yellow 3



### Stone National Park every summer with my family. 4


### I fear that future generations will not be able 5


### to experience the park in the same way that I 6



### have, that there won't be as much wildlife left 7



### for them to see. 8


### We should be leaving one

- of

- a

- kind places 9



### like Yel low Stone better than we found them for 10


### future generations. We should be doing 11


### everything in our power to protect these national 12


### treasures. These regulations are a step in the 13


### right direction for that reason. If we do not 14


### act on climate change, we are l eaving my 15


### generation and future generations to deal with 16


### increasingly extreme weather events that will 17



### only become more severe. 18



### We've already seen some extreme weather, 19


### events like Hurricane Sandy and Colorado's 20


### devastating fires and floods, but that is just 21


### the beginning and these events will only get 22

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### worse if we continue to sit on our hands as 1


### climate changes. 2



### Millennials know what is at stake. More 3


### and more I am seeing them care about recycling, 4


### buying fuel efficient cars, and riding their 5



### bikes or using public transportation as a 6


### substitute for driving their cars every day. 7


### They know the individual steps they need to take 8


### to create change, but they also know that it's 9


### time for bolder moves. We are ready for these 10



### rules from the EPA. 11



### Now the EP A has an opportunity to create 12


### tangible change. We can't miss this opportunity 13


### so today I am here as a concerned human being 14


### that believes we all deserve the right to a 15



### cleaner, more livable world. And I am here to 16


### say that I support the EPA and its need to take 17


### an extremely bold and fast action on a national 18



### level. 19



### Thank you so much. 20



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 21


### MS. EDINGER: Hi, my name is Ashley 22

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### Edinger and I am here today as both a member of 1


### the younger generation that will be inheriting 2



### the worst of th is problem and a concerned 3



### Coloradoan. 4



### As a Colorado native, I find the 5


### admittance of carbon into our atmosphere deeply 6


### troubling. As a nation, in order to protect the 7



### lives of our citizens and the environment which 8


### fosters our well being, we need to ado pt the 9


### proposed EPA regulations to limit carbon 10


### pollution from the larger sources, power plants. 11


### Over the past several years the United 12


### States has experienced drastic changes in weather 13


### and precipitation patterns due to carbon 14


### pollution. These extreme ch anges have not only 15


### negatively impacted our economy, costing the U.S. 16


### over $100 billion in 2012 alone, but have also 17


### proved debilitating to families all around the 18


### nation. Instead of mitigating the after effects 19


### of extreme weather, we need to be proactive by 20


### mitigating our carbon pollution problem before 21



### it's too late. 22

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### In the past two years Colorado has faced 1


### six major fires that have burned almost 250,000 2



### acres of the beautiful land that drives 3


### Colorado's economy, destroying well over 1100 4



### homes and kil ling three people. Colorado also 5


### faced severe flooding this past September unlike 6


### what many of us have ever seen, resulting in 7


### eight fatalities and over $1 billion in damages. 8



### One of the hardest hit cities is Evans, 9


### Colorado, a city in which I spent lar ge portion 10


### of childhood. It was hard to enjoy my first 11


### month in college listening intently as my friends 12


### and family members were being evacuated from 13



### their homes, and I couldn't be there with them. 14


### The city was submerged and nearly 15


### destroyed and it wasn' t until several months 16


### after the flooding that I was notified that my 17



### childhood home was lost in those floods. 18


### The flooding not only traumatized 19


### affected, but it destroyed lives. I went back to 20


### Evans in May to tour what remained and 21



### unfortunately there was much left to be done in 22

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### the recovery effort. The economy in Evans at 1


### town of only 20,000, was deeply impacted by the 2


### flooding. And federal assistance hasn't been 3



### enough. 4



### These extreme weather events are only 5


### going to get worse. We'll see more and more 6


### homes, schools, and towns like Evans destroyed. 7


### In order to preserve the lives that our citizens 8


### currently enjoy in the United States, we need to 9


### implement these new regulations on carbon 10


### pollution to prevent such catastrophes from 11


### becoming even mor e destructive. 12


### States like Colorado have practically 13



### started similar efforts of their own. As in 14


### Colorado we have put numerous programs in place 15



### to help combat the problem further. As other 16


### states are following in our footsteps, the 17


### regulations of hesi tant states get pushed in the 18


### right direction. 19


### The proposed regulations are necessary to 20


### creating a brighter future for all of us. And if 21


### we fail to respond to the effects of carbon 22

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### pollution, the nation as we know it will be 1



### destroyed. As of now, our f uture full of more 2



### extreme weather and more destruction looks bleak. 3


### We cannot wait a minute longer when lives are 4


### being destroyed due to our own human activity. 5


### My generation, the millennials is 6


### following this rulemaking closely because we know 7



### that if action is not taken now, we would be left 8


### to deal with the catastrophic consequences in the 9


### near future. And by then, it will be too late. 10


### Let's be on the right side of history and 11


### move our nation forward, acting as a model for 12



### other nations to follow. By not acting, the 13


### progress of our nation will be at a standstill. 14


### And as the effects of carbon pollution become 15


### increasingly more severe, we will be eventually 16


### moving backwards, so the only logical direction 17



### is forward. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Our next 20


### speakers, Dominion Herrera, Nick Stoobler. Mr. 21



### Herrera, go ahead. 22

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### Mr. HERRERA: Hello, my name is Dom 1



### Herrera and I was born and raised here in Denver, 2


### Five Points, maybe about less than ten minutes 3


### away from here. And it's really good t o see so 4


### many folks involved in this important issue. But 5


### the reason why this issue is important to me is 6


### because of my little brother who suffers from 7



### severe asthma. 8


### And I remember growing up seeing the pain 9


### that my mom went through looking at her preci ous 10


### baby going through these serious asthma attacks 11


### and having to put him on the nebulizer. And he's 12


### always have to miss school because of going to 13


### the doctors. And I remember him being behind and 14


### always having to meet with the principals. And 15



### my mom, s he raised three kids, my little brother, 16


### my little sister, and myself. So it was really 17



### hard for her to make ends meet by the end of the 18


### week because of her spending so much time in the 19


### hospital. So that's why I take this issue 20


### important. 21



### And over orga nizing the last couple of 22

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### years here in northeast Denver, a lot of the 1



### families who still this issue is mine, but 2


### relating to them and just hearing the pain in 3


### their voices, especially mothers, and little 4


### brothers. And so that's why I'm trying to do 5



### every thing in my power to help this. And I agree 6


### with everything that's going on. 7


### So those are my two cents and this is why 8


### I support this. 9



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Mr. Stubler, 10



### Stoobler. 11



### MR. STOOBLER: Yeah, Nick Stoobler. 12



### Sorry about that. 13



### MR. DAILY: That's okay, go ahead. 14


### Mr. STOOBLER: Hello, my name is Nick 15



### Stoobler. I was born and raised in Grand 16



### Junction, Colorado but I am now a resident of 17


### Denver studying at the University of Denver. 18



### However, I speak to you today not as a Coloradoan 19



### or even a n American, but as a human being. 20


### A young person who sees the world with a 21


### fresh perspective, free from society's condition 22

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### of what what is normal and acceptable. The 1


### science is clear, climate change is the single 2


### largest thing that humans have ever don e on this 3


### planet. The only thing that needs to be bigger 4


### are our efforts to stop it. 5


### These regulations proposed in the clean 6


### power plan offer America the chance to kick start 7


### our efforts towards effectively combating climate 8


### change and building a sustai nable future that 9


### supports generations to come. 10



### America has branded itself as a world 11


### leader throughout history. From creating the 12


### world's first modern democracy, to inventing 13


### nuclear technology, to being the first nation to 14


### put a man on the moon, Ameri ca has pioneered a 15


### path that most countries strive to follow. 16


### However, when it comes to acting on climate 17


### change, the U.S. has utterly failed. 18



### The United States emitted more carbon 19


### than any other nation in the 20th century. To 20



### make matters worse, rathe r than actively work to 21


### fix the problem we helped to create, we have 22

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### actually undermined the movement through actions 1


### such as refusing to ratify the Kiota (ph) 2



### protocol. 3


### As a young American, it is especially 4


### frustrating to see my country act in such a w ay 5


### that so negatively impacts the rest of the world. 6


### These actions are unacceptable, especially for a 7


### country with as much power to influence as the 8


### United States. But there is hope. 9


### These regulation, although not affixed to 10


### climate change are a monumen tal step in the right 11


### direction. Once implemented these regulations 12


### have the potential to start our country back on 13


### the right track and begin leading the world again 14


### in the right direction. 15


### Colorado has already began leading the 16


### way through actions such as the recent regulation 17


### implemented by the Air Quality Control 18


### Commission. And it is imperative that the U.S. 19



### follow suit on a federal level. 20


### Failing to effectively address climate 21


### change today will ensure our country and current 22

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### generations will leave behind a legacy defined by 1


### environmental catastrophe. 2


### Quite honestly, I'm terrified of one day 3


### looking into the eyes of my children and 4


### grandchildren and explaining that we failed them, 5


### of apologizing for the state of the world and 6


### acknowledging that my generation played a part in 7



### the destruction of our mother earth. 8


### By enacting these basic regulations on 9


### carbon emissions today, we can prevent these 10


### conversations from having to occur and instead 11


### begin leading the world in the right direction 12


### yet again. 13


### My testimony isn't about money or 14


### politics. It's about sharing the uncompromised 15



### and forward

- looking perspective of the youth on 16


### the defining issue of our lifetime. It's about 17


### the welfare of future generations and their 18


### inalienable right to live on a hos pitable planet. 19


### We have reached a turning point where we 20


### can no longer continue passing the buck and 21


### sweeping the science under the rug. If we do not 22

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### immediately and decisively act to combat climate 1


### change, our enduring legacy will be the 2


### generations who irreparably damaged the planet 3


### and degraded the lives of all beings who call it 4



### home. 5


### Thank you all so much for taking the time 6


### to hold these hearings and listen to the American 7


### people. However, I implore you to not only 8



### listen to the voices of those he re today and of 9


### those across the country, but empathetically 10


### listen to the voices from all the people around 11



### the world and all the people from future 12


### generations to come. To take the time to listen 13


### to their hopeful cries for a safe and hospitable 14



### future. 15


### My plea to you is simple, enact these 16


### regulations today to give my generation and 17


### future generations a chance for a safe and viable 18



### future. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Our next two 21


### speakers Rachel Garfunkel, Garfinkel, I'm sorry, 22

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### I apologize. The handwriting is a little blurry 1



### here. Kyle Coronado. Is Mr. Coronado here? 2


### Okay. Ms. Garfinkel. 3



### MS. GARFINKEL: Hi, my name is Rachel 4


### Garfinkel, born and raised in Oklahoma. I just 5



### moved to Colorado a couple of months ago as a 6


### community organizer. 7


### I did a lot of organizing in Oklahoma as 8


### well, so I feel like I can speak for a lot of 9



### people. Thousands of people I've talked to over 10


### that three or so years that I've been organizing, 11


### when it comes to climate change and coal

- fired 12



### power plants and the health in the communities 13


### surrounding them, and going back to the extreme 14


### weather conditions from climate change, the 15



### extreme weather changes

-- has suffered a lot 16


### from that as well with the tornados that just 17



### came by a couple years ago. And pretty much 18


### every summer the whole community is terrified of 19


### another one coming again. 20


### But, as I said, I speak to

-- I speak for 21



### -- I feel like I'm speaking for a lot of people 22

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### in the community all over Denver and Aurora, 1



### people that weren't able to be here today, but 2


### have signed EPA comment cards that we plan on 3


### sending to you eventually. 4


### I'm supporting this clean power plan. 5



### Mothers that have children with asthma are afraid 6


### of their children's future and they're afraid for 7



### the environment of their children. An d for me, 8


### being at childbearing age, I'm afraid to even 9



### think about what it would be like for a child at 10



### my age. 11


### So, also people worrying about the water 12


### supply whether or not we're going to have snow on 13


### the mountains in the next ten years. Out here in 14



### California

-- or in Colorado and in California, 15


### where I've also done restoration work and they've 16



### seen a lot of extreme droug hts from climate 17



### change as well. 18



### And as you know, the Department of 19


### Defense came out saying that that climate change 20



### is a nationa l security issue. So it seems 21



### obvious to me to take action, immediate action on 22

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### it as a nation and to mitigate the damage that 1



### has already been done. 2


### And to the people who are afraid that 3


### this plan will hurt the economy and kill jobs, I 4



### say to them that there will be no economy if 5


### there's no healthy environment or healthy society 6



### because of the environment. 7



### So thank you. 8



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. Mr. Coronado. 9


### MR. CORONADO: Good afternoon, my name is 10


### Kyle Desmond Coronado and I am a resident here of 11



### Co lorado. I wanted to show

-- I came here today 12


### to show my strong support to the new regulations 13



### for the clean power plan. 14


### I don't have sad stories about personal 15


### accounts of Hurricane Katrina or Sandy or 16


### wildfires or various droughts or some of the 17



### other personal accounts that may other people 18



### have. 19



### But I am very glad to see that there are 20


### very many young people like myself a millennial 21


### generation showing their support for thinking 22

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### ahead and thinking about the future and thinking 1


### that we can't just keep r olling the dice or just 2


### saying that like, oh, it's really not that bad of 3


### a problem, and we've had past previous 4


### environmental or climate legislature but it just 5



### hasn't cut up to snuff. 6


### This is really, in my opinion, kind of 7



### the minimum that we should be doing at this point 8


### in 2014 and going on into the 21st century. 9


### American is still a world power. And we need to 10


### be showing and leading with all of our influence. 11


### And going into the future I wonder about, you 12


### know, the world that I'll be leaving for thos e of 13


### us later on in the millennial generation and the 14


### next generations to come about the potential 15


### children that I'll have and I'll have to explain 16


### to them that once upon a time there was these 17


### weird conflicting views even though it was almost 18



### unanimous in the scientific community, or NASA, 19


### or the Park Service, or the Department of 20


### Defense, as we just heard about, there are those 21


### that will always say that this will kill the 22

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### economy and it will cost jobs, and we just can't 1


### do it now. Maybe next year, maybe next election, 2


### next time, we'll see if it works. But there gets 3


### to a point where there isn't a next time. It's 4


### you just have to focus on the now. You have to 5


### push for what you can get. And while this isn't 6


### everything what I always wanted, it's somethin g, 7


### and it's something very significant. So I would 8



### urge you to focus on those that are really 9


### inheriting this problem, those that are the 10


### millennial generation that we're really going to 11


### have to clean up this enormous mess that's been 12



### created over the gen erations that before were 13


### were just ignorant about. But now we know and 14


### since we know, knowing is really, like they say, 15



### half the battle. 16


### So I just wanted to show my strong 17



### support today and

-- yeah, that's all. Thanks. 18



### MR. DAILY: Thank you. 19



### The nex t speaker, Sarah Blanchfield. 20



### MS. BLANCHFIELD: Hi. Good evening 21


### commissioners. First of all I just want to say 22

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### thank you so much for taking the time out to hear 1



### us today. 2


### My name is Sarah Blanchfield and I am 3


### here today as a representative of the man y young 4


### people across our nation and larger globe who see 5


### the earth's natural treasures vanishing before 6


### their eyes at an alarming speed as a result of 7


### our species' unprecedent emission of greenhouse 8


### gases into the atmosphere. 9



### I'm here to represent the ma ny problem 10


### members of my generation who want the privilege 11


### of exploring the earth's oceans and snow caps 12


### with their children. But who may never be able 13


### to if our society continues down it's path of 14


### reckless pollution and planetary abuse. 15



### I am here today to voice my support for 16


### these rules as the first of many steps that will 17


### be necessary to reverse humanity's impacts on the 18


### planet before it is too late. 19


### I lost my mother during my freshman year 20


### of high school. And the most treasured memories 21



### I have of her are those of our travels during my 22

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### childhood. These memories include snorkeling 1


### coral reefs in Hawaii and the Caribbean, trekking 2


### across the rain forests of Belize and walking 3



### down the Rio Grande in our home town of 4


### Albuquerque with our two labs. 5



### The physical attachment that I have to 6


### these locations cannot be overstated. The grief 7



### that I feel as a result of their current 8


### degradation thanks to our global addiction to 9


### fossil fuels can only be matched by the pain that 10


### I feel in realizing that such glob al treasures 11


### may only exist in outdated magazines and mental 12


### pictures by the time that I have children of my 13



### own. 14


### Failure to pass even mild carbon 15


### regulations like these equates to robbing my 16


### generation of these sites of natural beauty. One 17



### of the first memories that I have of my mother is 18


### being cradled in her baby jogger while she ran me 19


### up and down the section of the Rio Grande that 20



### runs through Albuquerque's north valley. Once I 21


### could walk, I would jog alongside her with our 22

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### two labs as they ventured in and out of the 1


### river's swiftly moving clay

- colored water. 2



### Because of the unprecedented amount of 3


### carbon that is now trapped in our atmosphere, the 4


### Rio Grande has reached its highest temperatures 5


### in more than 10,000 years. The evaporation is 6



### already a larmingly noticeable. 7


### The river of my childhood can expect to 8



### lose one

- third of its surface water by the end of 9


### this century. This loss is one that one will be 10


### felt emotionally, culturally, economically and 11


### agriculturally through the entire southwest. 12



### Is that five minutes? 13



### MR. DAILY: No. Timer error. 14


### MS. BLANCHFIELD: Pause. In a regional 15


### already dangerously strapped for water, it will 16


### mean the loss of a farming culture that has dated 17


### back centuries of water security for an entire 18



### state, and of a symbol of New Mexico's culture 19



### that is older than the state itself. 20



### The coral reefs that I snorkeled hand

- in

21


### hand with my mom from an age so early that I had 22

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### to use floaties are experiencing quantities of 1


### bleaching and ocean acidification that have never 2


### been seen before. These reefs seeped with 3



### vibrant colors and multitudes of fish when I 4


### first swam them are now largely whitened, warmed 5


### and desolate. Even more tragic is the fact that 6


### without protection and swift action in 7


### legislations like these the re efs of the 8


### Caribbean can be expected to largely vanish 9


### within the next 20 years. With them will go some 10


### of my dearest memories with my mother. So too 11


### will go the global fishing economy and tourism 12


### revenue that generates from these priceless 13



### locations. I t is time to decide whether we will 14


### let these places slip through our fingers or we 15


### will take the initiative to fight for their 16


### immeasurable value by implementing policy like 17


### that which we discussed today. 18


### Because my mom was single for my whole 19



### life with her, all of our travels together 20


### included only me, her, and our natural 21


### surroundings. The only tangible connection that 22

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### I have to these mental images lies not with 1


### another person, but with the scenic beauty in 2


### which they occurred. Our abuse of this plan et, 3


### if it continues to go unchecked, will strip me 4



### not only of these accounts of the past, but of 5


### any prospects I have to recreate them with my own 6



### children in the future. 7


### As part of the generation that will be 8


### the most affected by climate change, and th e 9


### ecological losses that it causes, I'm here today 10


### to implore you to approve these regulations. 11



### Do not let the technology of yesterday 12


### deny my generation the ability to create memories 13


### with our families tomorrow and in the years to 14



### come. 15



### Thank you. 16



### M R. DAILY: Thank you. At At this point 17


### in time we're waiting for our speaker list to 18


### catch up with our schedule. So we're going to 19


### take a break until 5 p.m. and then we'll 20



### reconvene. So thank you. 21


### (Brief recess taken at 4:17 p.m.) 22

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### (Record resumes 5:0 0 p.m.) 1



### SESSION C 2



### MS. SUTIN: All right. Good evening, 3


### everyone. My name is Elyana Sutin and I am one 4


### of the hearing chairs for today's hearing. 5


### Thank you for coming today. 6


### Joining me on the panel are Denise 7


### Mulholland from our Office of Atmospheric 8


### Programs in D.C. and Dierdra Rothery who is with 9


### our Air Program here in Region 8. 10


### We are here today to listen to your 11



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 12


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 13



### of these proposed rules on June 2, 2014

. 14



### Power plants are the largest source of 15


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 16



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 17



### emissions. 18


### The first rule is EPA's proposed clean 19


### power plan for existing power plants. This 20


### proposal consists of two main parts, state

21


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 22

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### power plants, and guidelines to help states 1


### develop their plans for meeting these goals. 2


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 3


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 4



### choose wh at goes into their plans that show how 5


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 6


### their goals by 2030. 7


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 8



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 9


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 10



### set emis sion limits for two groups of power 11


### plants, those that make physical or operational 12


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 13


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 14



### that replace components to such an extent that 15



### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 16


### capital costs of an entirely new comparable 17


### facility. 18


### If you would like more details on either 19



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 20


### available near the registration desk. 21


### Today's hearing is one of four public 22

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### hearings across the country this week on the two 1


### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 2


### in each of the hearings and I would like to thank 3


### you for taking time out of your day today to join 4



### us and share your comments. 5


### We have a lot of people signed up to 6



### speak and we want t o hear from everyone

. So 7


### before we get started I would like to go through 8


### a few housekeeping items and ground rules that 9


### will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 10


### First, please be sure you have checked in 11


### at the registration desk, even if you are not 12


### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 13


### speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 14



### you a re here, please step out to the registration 15



### desk and let the EPA staff know that you 've 16



### arrived. 17


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 18


### given a room letter when you checked in, for the 19



### next hour it should be Room B. A fte r this time 20


### if you come in, make sure you're in the correct 21


### room. This is Room B. If you're not in the 22

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### right room, that would be the time to switch, 1



### around six o'clock. 2



### If you ar e not speaking this eve ning and 3



### the room is getting crowded, we have two 4


### additional rooms set up where you can watch the 5


### hearing on video. Our staff at the registration 6


### desk will direct you to one of those rooms. 7


### All right. Here's how today's hearing 8



### wi ll work. I will call speakers up in pairs, 9


### when your name is called, please come to the 10


### podiums at the front of the room. When I call 11



### you to speak, please state your name, and spell 12


### it for the court reporter. 13



### Your comments will be transcribed and 14



### includ ed in the record of comments on the 15


### proposed rule. Each speaker will have five 16


### minutes to give comments. We have a light to 17


### help you know how much time you have left to 18


### speak. When the light turns from green to 19


### yellow, that means you have one minute rem aining. 20


### When it turns red, that's a signal to wrap up 21


### your testimony. The light will flash red and 22

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### beep when you have spoken for five minutes and 1


### it's time to stop. 2


### When you are finished speaking, please 3


### remain at the podium until the person next to yo u 4


### has completed his or her testimony. 5



### We are here to day to listen to you

. 6


### However a panel member may be asking clarifying 7


### questions on your comments. 8


### I will then call up the next pair of 9



### speakers and so on. 10


### If you have brought a written copy of 11



### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 12


### the registration desk or you can leave it here 13



### on our table. 14



### Because of the large number of people who 15


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 16


### everyone, we are going to have to strictly 17



### enforce this f ive

- minute limit. 18


### If you have additional comments you would 19


### like to make, you can submit th ose comments in 20


### writing. 21


### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 22

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### much consideration to comments we receive in 1


### writing as we do to comments we receive a t public 2



### he arings like this one. 3


### So if you have more tha t you would like 4


### to say, please submit it. Your comments will be 5



### re view ed. 6


### There is still plenty of time to get 7



### written comments in and there are comment cards 8


### available at the registration desk. Comments 9


### must be received by October 16, 2014. We will 10


### put any written comments submitted today into the 11



### official docket for the proposed rule. 12



### I nstructions for submitting written 13


### comments in other ways are available at the 14



### materials table near the registration desk. 15


### We are scheduled to go until 8 p.m. 16


### tonight. We will take short breaks as needed. 17



### If you have any questions during th is time
, 18


### please see the staff at the registration desk and 19


### someone will try and help you. 20


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 21



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 22

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### today. We have people with a wide variety of 1



### views in the audience and we want to hear from 2


### all of you. So we can do that, and to be fair to 3


### everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly, 4



### even applause can slow things down and we want to 5



### hear from everyone who ha s signed up to speak. 6


### Thank you, again, for taking the time 7



### today to share your comments on EPA's proposed 8



### rule. Let's get started. 9


### First two speakers to come up, Natasha 10



### Lan ne rd and Matt Flerky. Ms. Lan ne rd, you'll 11


### speak first. 12



### MS. LAN NE RD: So I just want to 13


### apologize, I left my speech sitting on my 14


### counter. So my roommate took a photo of it and 15


### sent it to me, so I'm not texting or anything 16


### like that. I'm looking at my notes. 17


### My name is Na tasha Lanard, I am 29 years 18



### old and I am from Denver, Colorado. And I'm here 19


### today to voice my support for putting strict 20


### regulation on the emissions for power plants. 21


### And I just kind of want to give a little bit more 22

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### a personal side to this as I am sure that you 1



### guys have heard plenty of facts. I mean, the 2


### science is pretty clear as to why. I don't think 3



### you really need to hear anymore about that. 4



### B ut growing up my dad

-- my mom passed 5


### away when I was a child and my dad was obviously 6


### a single parent and he worked actually as a 7


### gunner and a foreman in the Rawhide Power Plant 8


### and in a coal facility in Wyoming. And I talked 9


### to him about it today prior to coming in here and 10


### kind of what he had told me was, you know, as 11


### somebody who my dad didn't go to c ollege and he 12


### was obviously looking to support a family, one of 13


### the best opportunities for him was working in the 14


### coal industry in these facilities. 15



### And I asked him to tell me a little bit 16


### about that job and basically what he told me is 17



### that it was incred ibly dark, incredibly 18


### dangerous, and it was the most thankless job he's 19


### ever had. He said the thing that stood out, you 20


### know, the thing that stood out the most to me 21


### when he told me about it was is every time people 22

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### turn on the lights, nobody thanks a coa l miner. 1



### And I think that what makes this so emotional is 2


### that, you know, nobody thanks a coal miner and 3


### the only thing that these people hear are 4


### negative attacks. It's negativity about 5


### emissions and I think that the coal industry has 6



### done a really good job of spinning that fear onto 7


### them about the jobs that they could lose. 8



### Because at the end of the day these people have 9


### families that they have to support regardless. 10


### I'm sure there are people in there and 11



### there are dads in those facilities and moms in 12


### those facilities that are the only people 13


### supporting their families and they will do 14



### whatever it takes to do it. 15


### But what I did ask my dad in, you know, 16


### kind of having this conversation is that if you 17


### were given an option to do something else, and 18



### stil l be able to support, you know, us the way 19


### that you did, would you do it? And he said 20


### absolutely. And he said that he doesn't really 21


### know of anybody he ever worked with that really 22

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### was passionate about necessarily about digging 1



### coal out of the ground. O r for him he did a lot 2


### of work in the actual facilities cleaning the 3


### plants and the big turbines and things like that. 4


### And he said, though, that when he did work doing 5


### that that nobody ever really talked about it, 6


### even though he thinks that the heart of a lot of 7


### people there, my dad included, that they were 8


### wanting another option because there's so much 9


### negativity around, you know, the fact that people 10


### could lose their jobs and the fear based with 11


### that. And if they were to ever say anything that 12



### they woul d be looked negatively or lose their 13


### jobs. 14


### I don't have any children, I don't have 15


### any real interest in having children. I have 16


### asthma, but it's not that bad. But seeing as how 17


### we're all here as citizens of Colorado, I grew up 18



### in Green Mountain and I've seen that brown cloud 19


### every day growing up out there. It's visible, 20


### you can't even see the cities on some days. 21



### And, you know, the reason that I'm here 22

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### is because I have a problem because I have to 1



### live here. I have to breath in the air and the 2



### reaso n you're here today is because you obviously 3


### have a problem because you're tasked with dealing 4


### with it, and at the end of the day we all have a 5


### problem because we contribute to it, we rely upon 6


### it, and we all must do something to change it. 7



### And what has k ind of struck me the most about 8


### this is I was at the precedent earlier today and 9


### the thing that got the loudest cheer was the 10



### agreement on everybody

-- I looked today, there's 11


### around 2,600 people in Colorado who rely on coal 12


### jobs, every single one of those people should be 13


### given an option and should be given the support 14



### to find another vocational career because this 15


### isn't an attack against them. 16



### The people who stand to lose the most are 17



### the industries that have based their entire lives 18



### on this whole thin g instead of innovating beyond 19


### coal and being ahead of it, they spent more and 20


### more money and it's almost likened to a drug 21


### addiction. You know, you spend more money as you 22

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### want to, you know, forget that you have a problem 1



### and the more pushback you see, t he more fear 2


### that's being based, the more everything, 3


### resistance to change is likened to a drug addict. 4


### You know, nobody wants to admit they have a drug 5


### problem, they spend all this money looking for 6


### the drug and everything else. 7



### And I guess what I'm a sking for you 8


### today, as I'm wrapping up my time is that, you 9



### know, the more money people spend, the coal 10


### industry spends is based on fear, they're trying 11



### to scare everybody. And the only people that 12


### really have anything to lose is them because 13



### they've spe nt their entire efforts into digging 14


### their heels out instead of innovating beyond a 15



### technology that's outdated and that needs to go 16


### by the wayside. Because at the end of the day 17


### there are a lot of people like my dad that would 18


### have taken another option. They'd rather work on 19


### a wind turbine than be digging underneath the 20


### ground digging up coal. 21


### And I'm sure if you pulled each of those 22

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### people aside who stand to lose anything from 1


### this, they would say the same thing. And, again, 2



### the only people that truly stand to lose is the 3


### coal industry. 4


### So thank you for being here today and 5


### listening to all of us. 6



### MS. SUTIN: Natasha, can you spell your 7


### first and last name for the court reporter? 8



### MS. LANNERD: Sure. N

- a

- t

- a

- s

- h

- a, 9



### Lannerd, L

- a

- n

- n

- e

- r

- d. Thank you. 10



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. 11



### Mr. Floerke. 12


### MR. FLOERKE: My name is Mathew Floerke
, 13



### M

- a

- t

- h

- e

- w F

- l

- o

- e

- r

- k

- e. I'm a Colorado State 14


### senior right now majoring in physics and minoring 15


### in math. I am originally from Petaluma, 16



### California. It's located about a n hour north of 17


### San Francisco, it's a beautiful place, wine 18



### country. 19



### I'm here today because I'm here to show 20


### my support for the clean power plan. I just

-- 21


### me as a person I've always been really into the 22

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### environment. I just

-- I can't believe what 1



### we're doing to this planet. I've been so blessed 2


### to grow up in a beautiful place in California and 3


### to go to school here in Colorado. And it saddens 4


### me when I walk around just down the street in 5


### Fort Collins that was rated not like maybe three 6



### years ago as one of the best cities to live in 7


### this country. And seeing just trash everywhere 8


### on the ground. This is the best that we can do, 9



### and it saddens me to know that. 10


### But even being in California, you know, 11


### in the northern part, none of that smog and all 12



### that. It's terrible. We're in one of the worst 13


### droughts we've had, so that just shows me that 14


### climate change is definitely affecting 15


### California. And my parent worry about it every 16



### day. They are on constant watch on how much 17


### water they can use because it's a r eal thing. 18



### Drinkable water and water that we can use is 19


### running low. And what are we going to do when 20



### we're out of it? 21


### Also, the air, the pollution, like 22

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### growing up and that, I thought that was normal. 1


### And coming to Colorado I've just seen how that's 2



### n ot the reality. That's not the world that we 3


### should be living in. It can be a lot cleaner and 4



### a lot more breathable. And it's terrible to see, 5


### you know, not only are we polluting our air, but 6


### my parents just returned from a trip from China 7



### and my dad

-- he got so sick from the air there 8



### that he couldn't come out from the hotel room for 9


### three days. He was just red in the face, could 10



### not breathe and it was

-- turned out to be one of 11


### the worst trips he's ever had. And I don't want 12



### to see that happen to th is beautiful country 13


### because I love it here, it's gorgeous and it 14



### would be terrible to see that never to come back 15


### again. 16


### Another thing that I've seen in 17


### California is I took a trip two years ago to San 18


### Diego, and just walking along the beach I had 19



### never seen so much trash. And it's terrible. 20


### Like we can't be doing this and just, you know, 21



### because it's in some water, that's not 22

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### technically our land, we just

-- we don't care 1



### about it. It's terrible, it's there, and it's 2


### going to come back to haunt us so me day unless we 3


### do something about it. 4


### I mean, right now, you know, we are 5


### sitting on an exponential curve. And for those 6



### of you who don't know what that means, for 7


### example, we can use lily pads, the first day we 8


### have one lily pad, the next day we have two, and 9


### then four, and then eight, and so relating that 10


### to our population we may be down here right now 11


### where it doesn't affect us that greatly, but 12


### eventually we're going to be up here and it's 13


### going to hit us so fast that we won't be able to 14


### do anything to do anything about it. And it will 15


### just be too late, it's really sad. 16


### So I think this clean power plan is a 17


### great start and it's something

-- it may not be 18


### huge, it may not be cleaning up the oceans, but 19


### it is cleaning up our air and I believe that i t 20


### is something that we need to take initiative and 21


### add on to and continue doing throughout this 22

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### nation because it is gorgeous, it is something 1



### that I care about a lot, and I would hate to see 2


### us as American people throw it away so easily. 3



### Thank you very much and have a great 4


### evening. 5



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. You can both be 6



### seated. 7


### Okay. I'm going to call up four people at 8


### a time. If you can come sit in the chairs and 9



### then I'll call two people up to speak. 10



### So if I can have Anita Hartman n , Susan 11



### Jacobs on, Patty McClelland and Ronald Larson. 12



### So Anita Hartmann and Susan Jacobson. 13


### Anita, you'll go first. 14


### MS. HARTMANN: Okay. My name is Anita 15



### Hartman, A

- n

- i

- t

- a H

- a

- r

- t

- m

- a

- n

- n. I'm here as 16


### a mother and a grandmother and a citizen. And I 17



### want to thank you for creating this forum for 18


### public opinion and thank you for protecting the 19


### environment and the future that my kids and grand 20


### kids are going to live into. I'm here to support 21


### strong regulations for reduction of carbon 22

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### emissions which will create clean er air and slow 1


### climate change and will minimize environmental 2


### disasters. I have a very strong feelings about 3



### this. 4



### Such as the contamination of the Dan 5


### River in North Carolina where Duke Energy ash 6


### ponds contaminated the river and the governor who 7



### was an employee of Duke Energy for 28 years let 8


### them off the hook entirely for cleaning up the 9


### river. So, by cleaning up the industry, the 10


### energy industry, not only will it reduce carbon 11



### emissions but it will have a wide

- reaching impact 12



### into other areas of en vironmental protection. 13


### Right now we have strengthened the Clean 14


### Air Act at the expense of our rivers. Because 15


### how do we clean the emissions from the plants, 16


### the power plants, the coal plants, we do it with 17


### water which then goes into our rivers. And so, 18



### you know, not only do we need to strengthen our 19


### Clean Air Act and our regulations for emissions, 20



### but we also need to strengthen our Clean Water 21


### Act so that we don't just move the problem from 22

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### one part of our environment to another. 1



### When Duke Energy had the disaster with 2


### their coal ash ponds

-- I have a home in Florida 3


### and I live here in Colorado too, part

- time

-- I 4



### contacted the Public Utilities Commission because 5


### I don't have a choice. I have Duke Energy as my 6


### Energy provider. I don't want to support them, I 7



### don't want to do business with them, I don't want 8


### them to have my money. If they are not going to 9


### be held accountable and they are not going to be 10


### responsible, we need freedom of choice. And so 11


### the Public Utilities Commission needs to step up 12



### and understand that the people of this country 13



### need choice, need freedom of choice so that we 14


### don't have to continue to support these 15


### organizations that compromise the well being of 16


### our future, our environments for their corporate 17


### profits and the safety of th e people in this 18



### country. 19


### By minimizing the reliance on industries 20


### such as coal and natural gas and oil which I hope 21


### somebody tells the president that natural gas is 22

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### not clean energy. It is not clean energy. By 1


### reducing reliance on these, it will create more 2


### demand for renewable clean energy and alternative 3


### energy that truly is sustainable. So, the other 4



### wide

- reaching effect that it has, is, yes, there 5


### are people in the coal industry who make their 6


### living in the coal industry and we need to 7



### support them in having alternative ways of making 8


### a living. But we also need to protect those 9


### people because they too are paying a very heavy 10


### price with their

-- the areas that they live in 11


### and the health consequences from being associated 12



### with those industries. 13



### And then lastly, two very quick things. 14


### The last time I was here to speak with you was 15


### when you were in Denver soliciting opinion on 16


### fracking. And I want to thank you for your 17


### efforts for requiring disclosure of fracking 18


### ingredients. And please do all you can to 19


### protect the bees from companies like Monsanto. 20



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Hartmann. 21



### Ms. Jacobson? 22

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### MS. JACOBSON: My name is Susan Jacobson, 1



### S

- u

- s

- a

- n J

- a

- c

- o

- b

- s

- o

- n. So I love the sign, 2


### you talked, we listened. So I'm going to talk 3


### very briefl y. 4


### I'm an economics professor at Regis 5


### College in North Denver. And you'll see from my 6


### comments that that background is reflected in 7



### them. 8


### Climate change is real. The organization 9


### 350.org highlights just how far beyond the limits 10



### we have already gon e. 350.org named for a safe 11


### level of carbon emissions, parts per million of 12


### CO2 in the atmosphere, it now almost looks 13



### laughable. 14


### In May 2013 we hit 400 parts per million 15


### and the line on the chart just keeps rising. You 16


### don't really have to be a scient ist to notice. 17


### Crazy weather, fires, floods, heat and drought 18


### are highly visible to everyone especially those 19


### of us who live in the fragile environments of the 20



### desert west. 21



### I am a member of a number of 22

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### environmental organizations including Great Old 1



### Broa ds For Wilderness, Grand Canyon Trust, 2



### Conservation Colorado, the Sierra Club, Wildlands 3



### Restoration Volunteers. So these affiliations 4


### indicate my deep love of the western landscape 5


### which will be changed dramatically if we don't 6



### act. 7



### But I also thankfull y am blessed with a 8


### strong constitution and a good job. So I'm not 9


### here to tell my story or to testify for my 10


### interest personally. I'm here to represent 11


### people who often don't come to these meetings to 12



### speak out because they really can't come. 13



### They're the people who are sick. Or 14


### they're the people who are working long hours for 15


### minimum wage to support their families. These 16



### are the people who suffer the greater cost of 17


### inaction on climate change because they are the 18


### ones who live and work in the most p olluted 19



### areas. 20


### Others of us, the privileged few, find 21



### ways to buy our way out of the problems for now 22

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### and apparently we really haven't thought ahead, 1


### haven't been wise, or been prompted by ethical 2


### conscience to think far enough ahead to curtail 3



### and clea n up our consumption and pay our fair 4



### share of the all

- in costs of energy use. 5


### I just heard last week on Colorado Public 6



### Radio, the director of the National Renewable 7


### Energy Lab in Golden say that coal is still the 8


### cheapest source of a kilowatt hour. But cheapest 9


### ignores huge costs to our environment and to our 10


### health that are unjustly borne by those who are 11



### least able. 12



### Of course the director of NREL knows 13


### this. But too many of us focus on economic 14



### costs, dollar costs that do not reflect the real 15



### costs of our way of life. 16


### To use Raj Patel's words, coal is not 17


### cheap energy, it's cheat energy with a T. 18


### Because we are transferring the real costs to the 19



### less fortunate to the earth and to the future. 20



### Let me quote from a recent report. "The 21


### findings of the Yale University Research add to 22

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### the evidence of a widening racial and economic 1


### gap when it comes to air pollution. Communities 2


### of color and those with low education, high 3



### poverty, and unemployment face greater health 4


### risks even if their air quality st andards meet 5



### federal standards. " This research was published 6


### in an online scientific journal called 7


### environmental health perspectives. 8


### Cleaning up our economy is about more 9



### than clean are for those of us who are here to 10


### speak out. It's also about justi ce. As Gina 11


### McCarthy said, "we have a moral obligation to 12



### act." 13


### A 30 percent reduction by 2013, as 14


### compared to 2005 levels is not only doable, but 15


### imperative. This is not going to be a do or die 16


### effort. States may implement the regulations 17


### using many flexible means and methods over time. 18


### One more issue, people throw out numbers to get 19



### attention. 20


### In the Denver Post this morning I read 21


### that the American Coalition for Clean Coal Energy 22

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### is against tougher air quality standards because 1



### it will cost 9,0 00 mining jobs. Nine thousand 2


### jobs may sound like a lot. And to the 9,000 3


### people whose jobs are lost, it is a lot. But 4


### let's put that number in context. The U.S. 5


### economy created 288,000 jobs in June alone, one 6



### month. People need jobs, but not just any jobs 7


### as we heard before, they need sustainable good 8


### jobs. 9


### Thank you for listening. 10



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Jacobson. 11



### Mr. McClelland and

-- I'm sorry, Ms. 12



### McClelland and Mr. Larson. Ms. McClelland you 13


### will go first. 14



### MS. McCLELLAND: Okay. I shall . Hi, I'm 15


### Paddy McClelland, and I spell it P

- a

- d

- d

- y M

- c

- C

16



### l

- e

- l

- l

- a

- n

- d. 17


### Thank you for doing this. I don't think 18


### I'm going to say anything that I thought I was 19


### going to say. I've been so moved by so many 20


### things today. I was here this morning too. 21



### An d part of it was, I came back this 22

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### afternoon and left my house, and oh, my God, look 1


### at the weather, it's like, it's just so obvious. 2


### And the clouds all summer have been these big 3


### hanging, full of vapor that just drop water like 4



### crazy. It never used to b e like that, you know. 5



### So that being said and then the downpour of rain, 6


### it's just so obvious to me. 7



### I'm here, I also work with a lot of 8


### different organizations, but I'm here mostly as a 9



### mother today. And on behalf of my grandmother 10



### who was born in Silv er Plume along with all my 11


### great old codgy uncles that were miners up there 12


### and they had to leave their life of silver and 13


### gold mining to find something new. And so I feel 14



### for the miners. I understand how difficult that 15


### must be. But it's not impossible. 16


### I would like to just tell a story my 17


### grandmother used to say and it's a beaver story. 18



### And she used to say, I remember there were 19


### beautiful beaver ponds up in that direction and 20


### she said, "the beavers are living in their little 21



### damed area and the minute t hey hear water 22

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### starting to run all the beavers are paying 1


### attention to the water, and everybody hears it, 2


### and so they start getting really busy, they get a 3


### stick to put in here, make sure it's not there 4


### and vice versa. And so the beavers do everything 5



### the y can to protect their family when they hear 6



### the water." 7


### My contention is here today that 8


### everybody I know in this room and a lot more 9



### people out there, we all hear the water. It's 10


### not easy to hear because it's not easy to really 11


### know in your heart. In the work that I do, I've 12


### met so many people. I just had lunch with 13



### somebody two weeks ago that after he saw my 14


### presentation on climate change sat at the table 15


### and just sobbed. 16


### I hope it's not too late. I appreciate 17


### what you guys are doing, and it's a first step. 18



### We need to address the methane. 19


### This morning somebody said, and this 20


### worries me, that, you know, by focusing on the 21


### goal, the methane will just go. And it is worse 22

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### for the climate than any coal. And the other 1


### thing that I hope we start hear ing about is a 2


### carbon tax because that's where it's going to 3


### change everything is having a carbon for your 4



### dividend. 5


### So just in closing I just want to say 6


### that, again, as a mother, I do believe, and this 7



### comes from our children's trust, it's an old 8



### enviro nmental law. I don't know if you guys have 9


### heard of it. And they're doing some fighting 10


### around the states right now, but we have 11



### entrusted our planet to you guys. We have 12


### entrusted it with you to take care of it for my 13



### children and their children. And so I hope with 14



### this one

-- you know, this is one stick for the 15


### dam today. And I hope by giving you this trust 16


### to do what is right that you guys will stand up 17


### and do the right thing. And the other thing I 18


### want to say is I don't think the president or you 19


### have any idea of the numbers that are behind you 20


### if you do this thing. If you continue to fight 21



### for our environment. 22

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### That's all, thank you so much. 1



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. McClelland. 2



### Mr. Larson. 3



### MR. LARSON: The name is Ronal, R

- o

- n

- a

4



### l, Larson. I live on Lookout Mountain. 5


### I'm going to probably take a different 6



### slant than you've heard from almost anybody else. 7


### I'm going to ask for a fifth category of what 8


### states can do in addition to efficiency 9



### renewables, natural gas and so forth. 10



### The fifth category would be carbon 11


### negative technologies. These are the kinds of 12


### technologies that Jim Hanson and Bill McKibben 13


### are arguing for. I'm hoping that they're in 14



### there. I haven't looked as carefully as I 15


### should, but it certainly is not indicated in any 16


### of the description that I've seen of the four 17


### categories. 18


### The reason for being here is having 19


### worked in renewable energy and energy efficiency 20


### since 1973 I was a principle scientist at Enrow, 21


### I was a Congressional Fellow working on the first 22

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### two solar bi lls that were passed by Congress '73

- 1


### 4. I helped establish the Colorado Renewable 2


### Energy Society. I was chair of the American 3


### Solar Energy Society, and I think that that game 4



### is more or less over. Renewables wind and solar 5



### are ready. We don't

-- obviou sly there are 6


### things that can be done, but those technologies 7



### have run the game. 8


### What hasn't even been started is anything 9


### on carbon negativity. I looked at a website the 10


### other night, 1500, 1700, 1300 bills in state 11


### legislatures. There's not a single b ill in any 12


### state legislature looking at carbon negativity. 13


### And I think EPA is the group that can do that, 14



### almost has to do it. 15


### The two key words that should be in that 16


### fifth category are "CDR", carbon dioxide 17


### renewable, or "NET", negative emissions 18



### tec hnologies. The latter picks up on both, 19


### methane and nitrous oxide. And so I'm moving 20



### away from the word "CDR" towards "NET" a nd 21


### biochar can do all three. It does a great job on 22

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### carbon dioxide, I presume that the three of you 1


### know something about biocha r, so I won't go into 2


### it here. But it's the idea of getting something 3


### into your regulations. 4


### The only other thing I wanted to say was 5


### that three years ago you had a biogenic ruling 6


### with three years up already last week. I gave 7


### testimony or I mean, I w rote something on the 8


### subject of biogenic carbon, whether or not 9


### biomass is really renewable and sustainable. I 10


### think there is some argument when you talk about 11


### biomass. I think there's no argument when you 12


### talk about biochar. The only other word I've 13



### w ritten down here is the word reversibility. In 14


### the technical literature there's a good bit of 15



### deference about whether we can in fact reverse 16



### the mess that we're in. 17



### I think that biochar can do it. I think 18


### you can do it better than any other net 19



### approac hes. 20



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Larson. 21



### You can booth be seated. 22

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### If I can have Lola Wilcox, Dustin Chavez

1



### Davis and Isaac Rivera. Go ahead and be seated, 2


### you don't all have to stand up. But Ms. Wilcox 3


### will go first. 4


### MS. WILCOX: My name is Lola, L

- o

- l

- a, 5



### Wilcox, W

- i

- l

- c

- o

- x. I'm a fourth generation 6


### Coloradoan. My children or six grandchildren are 7


### six generation. So that's something that I bring 8


### in terms of perspective. 9


### I want to thank you for the opportunity 10


### to speak with you today. I want to talk about 11


### how Xcel Energy and the utility industry need a 12



### new business motto. 13


### I worked for Public Service Company which 14


### is one of the three fathers of Xcel Energy for 18 15


### years. I was on the team that decommissioned the 16



### Fort Saint Vrain Nuclear Power Pla nt. 17


### I helped the corporation to develop and 18


### implement business strategy. And I'm going to 19



### refer to the business case from 1996, the 1997 20


### business plan built on that case for the Arapaho 21



### Power Plant. I've kept these documents because 22

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### they marked a substa ntial change in the utility's 1


### purpose and planning including a growing focus on 2



### short

- range financial return. 3


### In the business plan there is no mention 4


### of alternative energy either as a business 5


### strategy or as a customer demand. Environment 6



### issues exist only in terms of meeting regulatory 7



### demands. 8


### The 1996 business plans assumptions were 9


### a highly competitive environment that the 10


### industry will be unbundled, that rates will be 11



### market

- based and generation will be unregulated 12



### in the near term. 13



### The Arapah o Power Plant we'll here is a 14



### four

- unit fossil power plant that produced, when 15


### it was working well, 246 megawatts. It's a small 16


### plant. It was the site of an integrated dry

- knox 17


### SO2 emission control system study based in 18



### fu nding from the Department of Ene rgy and the 19



### company. The measures were environmental 20


### compliance on capacity, knox SO2 and any 21


### available exceptions. That was about the same 22

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### amount of time then as you are giving the power 1


### plants now. Had they implemented then we would 2



### not have these que stions now. That's one of the 3


### reasons for using examples from this particular 4



### set of business cases. 5


### What they did do that year was buy from 6



### March to November Powder River Basin coal which 7


### indeed raised the price. The company vision was 8


### to provide saf e, reliable electric and gas energy 9



### and value

- added related services at competitive 10


### prices to new and existing customers. 11


### Environment and alternative energy 12



### solutions could have been, at that time, an 13


### emerging business opportunity. There were new 14



### custo mers, there was value

- added service that was 15


### not included in their thinking. 16


### My second point involves being a 17



### treasurer for a 12

- unit condominium which on 18


### Colfax and York, right up the street here. We 19


### are a group of middle to low

- income owners with 20



### eld ers, veterans, disabled, and single parents as 21


### part of our very small mix. The utility bill is 22

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### our major vulnerability to being able to afford 1


### to say in our condos. It's over 6,000 in the 2



### winter. With one

- third government grant funding 3



### and two

- thirds pr ivate financing, we have 4


### installed solar for the hot water system. Our 5


### only solution for our winter heating bill, our 6


### single largest expense would be geothermal. 7


### So a little digression maybe. Three 8


### years ago I visited my niece in Demark, her 9



### husband wa s installing geothermal for their 10


### house. The government, the Danish government, 11



### loaned the money for the hardware and sent an 12


### installation coach, something like a county 13


### agent, to their house. In one week they dug it, 14


### they laid the serpentine, they insta lled the 15


### house equipment, and they relandscaped. My niece 16



### pays the government loan back from money that 17


### would have gone to their utility bill. 18


### Simple solutions like this threaten the 19


### utility's current business models. Right now 20


### Xcel and the industry w ant to stop purchasing 21


### excess generation from alternative sites and 22

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### charge anyone who further generates alternative 1


### energy. Our condominium would in essence be 2


### fined for further solar or geothermal 3


### applications. 4


### The government has always been in the 5



### ut ility business, not only as a regulator, family 6


### stories tell about the government men arriving on 7


### our farms telling us about taking windmills out 8


### and installing electricity. 9


### What is needed is that kind of support 10


### from the financial government today to n ot only 11



### regulate, but fund needed change. 12



### I am for hundreds of thousands of small 13


### producing units that houses, condos and 14


### neighborhoods and then for Xcel earning that as 15



### they help the company help the country help the 16


### climate and help the future. Thank you. 17


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Ms. Wilcox

. 18



### Mr. Chavez

- Davis. 19



### MR. CHAVEZ

- DAVIS: Thank you, hello, my 20



### name is Dustin Chavez Davis, that's D

- u

- s

- t

- i

- n 21



### C

- h

- a

- v

- e

- z dash D

- a

- v

- i

- s. 22

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### First off, good afternoon. I want to 1


### thank you all for the opportunity to speak here 2


### today in favor of the proposed EPA clean power 3


### plan and strict regulations on carbon emissions. 4



### I believe that this effort will lead to reduced 5


### carbon emissions from power plants and help open 6



### the door to a clean power future. 7


### Again, my name is Dustin and I am 8


### currently serving as an organizing representative 9


### from the Sierra Club based in Albuquerque, New 10


### Mexico, working on the Our Wild America campaign 11


### which is focused on conservation of our public 12


### lands, protection of our resources and clean 13


### energy issues. 14


### I also am serving as a board member for 15


### the community

- based organizing group, Southwest 16


### Organizing Project, which is also based in 17


### Albuquerque which works towards a goal of racial 18


### and gender equality, social economic
, and 19


### environmental j ustice for disenfranchised 20



### communities in the southwest. 21


### Today my generation faces one of 22

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### humanities greatest challenges, the threats of 1


### manmade climate change have already begun to 2


### impact our communities and especially our 3


### cultural and economic viability

. 4


### Increased greenhouse gases in our 5


### atmosphere have resulted in more severe droughts, 6


### widespread wildfires and an increase in extreme 7


### weather across the southwestern region and across 8



### the rest of the planet. 9


### The EPA's new clean power plan, is a step 10


### in the right direction towards addressing our 11


### nation's dependence on fossil fuels and moving us 12



### toward a new and clean energy future. 13



### Communities of color have often born e the 14


### brunts of our harmful energy extraction and 15


### experienced the worst side effects of our energy 16


### production cycle. Harmful carbon and particulate 17


### pollution make air quality in the four corners 18


### region of New Mexico
, at times, worse than the 19


### smog found in big cities like Los Angeles. 20


### Stores of coal, natural gas and oil, make 21



### this area a hot bed of energy extraction. This 22

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### mad rush to mine, drill
, and burn off our natural 1



### resources, often fails to take into account the 2



### effect on our communities, on our environment and 3


### the cost and effect on future generations in 4


### favor of temporary profit a nd short

- term gain. 5


### In March our community members in 6


### Albuquerque organized a rally for renewables and 7


### demonstrated at the PNM shareholders meeting to 8


### send a clear message to New Mexico's largest 9


### public service company. What we told them was, 10



### that our co mmunities are ready for clean energy 11


### investments. We know that we can power our 12


### country without polluting our precious air and 13


### water resources. Especially in the desert 14


### southwest, it's really important that we focus on 15


### technologies that reduce the amount of water that 16


### it takes to produce our energy, and solar and 17


### wind are great opportunities for that. 18


### The Southwest Organizing Project has 19


### helped aid organized communities to form bucket 20


### brigades and take action into their own hands to 21


### monitor the air quali ty in their neighborhoods. 22

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### With industry often located right next door to 1



### vulnerable communities, the health effects are 2



### often in evidence. 3



### A recent poll found that more than 84 4



### percent of L atinos in New Mexico want PNM to 5



### increase their use of renewab les like solar and 6


### wind. Developing more clean energy means more 7


### jobs, less pollution, and improved public health. 8


### New Mexico is prime for the clean energy 9



### future with an abundance of sunshine and wind 10


### resources. These alternative energy options can 11



### pro vide jobs and help transition our dependence 12


### on a finite and dwindling fossil fuel reserve. 13



### We need to look at the cost of inaction, 14


### and realize that our future depends on our 15


### ability to adapt to a changing climate and 16



### address the challenges presented fro m a warming 17



### planet. 18



### A gain, I just want to emphasize that I 19


### support a strong clean power plan, that aims to 20



### reduce carbon emissions. 21



### Thank you. 22

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### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Chavez

- Davis. 1



### Mr. Rivera. 2


### MR. RIVERA: Hello, my name is Isaac 3



### Rivera. That's I

- s

- a

- a

- c R

- i

- v

- e

- r

- a. Thank you 4


### for having me. 5


### My name is Isaac Rivera, I am a graduate 6


### student in the department of geography at the 7


### University of Colorado and I am also a researcher 8


### at the National Center for Atmospheric Research. 9



### I speak to you to day to give my voice to 10


### the growing call for an immediate paradigm shift 11


### in thinking from the EPA. The proposed carbon 12


### regulations on coal

- fire d plants are far too 13



### lenient and relaxed. 14



### F or the span of my lifetime, this 15


### government and EPA have done litt le to nothing to 16


### reduce the known toxic greenhouse gasses and 17


### toxic carcinogens into our environment. I am 18


### appalled that my country is failing miserably at 19


### leading the effort to minimize carbon emissions 20



### around the world. 21


### Not only are we failing miserabl y, we are 22

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### effectively sabotaging any efforts to come up 1


### with any meaningful international treaty. I 2


### can't stress it enough. We are running out of 3



### time. 4


### If we are serious about staying under a 5


### two degree Celsius limit, as proposed by the U

. N

. 6



### benchmark , we need to act now. With just less 7


### than one degree rise in global m ea n temperatures, 8



### we have successfully melted the A rctic, set the 9


### collapse of the Antarctic ice sheet, and have 10


### successfully set in motion the sixth great 11



### extinction of the earth. 12



### W hi le my statements might not be the 13


### mainstream on our joke of a free press in this 14


### country, they are the mainstream among the 15


### scientific community. 16



### I urge the EPA
, R egion E ight
, to help us 17



### where our state government has abandoned us. 18



### Please help us, as our governor has pressed forth 19


### with more drilling of oil and gas. 20


### My colleagues at CU have empirical 21



### evidence that throws the EPA estimate of methane 22

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### leaks into serious question. About 60 percent 1


### under estimated leaks from the EPA are lacking. 2



### I urge an immediate moratorium until we 3


### have the science that proves beyond a doubt that 4



### it is safe. 5


### While I understand that just about any 6


### regulation in this country is labeled as a 7


### radical, I would inform the EPA that the people 8


### of this region, th e state , and thi s country will 9


### support your efforts in implementing regulations 10


### that reflect the urgency of our situation. 11


### This should not be a question of if or 12



### when, but why. Why would you not reduce 13


### emissions, given the technologies at hand, that 14



### are on standby and have be en prepared by NRL 15



### scientists? This is a moral obligation to the 16


### elders on this panel, in the name of humanity. 17


### Why is it that minority communities are 18


### at the front gates of toxic oil spills, super 19



### fun d sites, and are living daily in the shadow o f 20


### coal burning power plants. Why? 21



### But while it is no secret that minorities 22

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### have dealt with the devastating health impacts, 1


### we know that pollution does not recognize borders 2


### or ideologies. This affects us all. 3



### The economics are real, and that our coa l 4


### mining friends' jobs are at risk, basic free

5



### markets tell us so. 6


### So I urge the EPA to work with the 7


### administration to get training and educational 8


### opportunities to our fine brothers and sisters in 9


### alternative energy sectors, such as solar and 10



### wind. T heir health, our health
, and the health 11


### of every ecosystem in this world is connected. 12


### So I urge the EPA to stand and live up to 13


### its' duty in protecting the public's health. 14



### I also urge the EPA to take a moral stand 15



### for our children, for our health and for setting 16


### a precedent in history that it was the year 2014 17


### that America finally came together to lead the 18


### world into a livable 21st century instead of 19


### actively and selfishly destroying it for short

20


### term profit. Another world is possible and I 21



### hope to s ee the day that where energy is finally 22

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### used freely from the sun instead of for geo

1


### political and economic power. 2


### In closing, I want to thank the EPA for 3


### their great work. I know the politics in this 4


### country aren't quite there, but the urgency is. 5



### So thank you. 6


### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Rivera. 7



### If I can have, Susan Perm u t, Mitti Aponte 8


### and Chris Applegate please come up. Are you Ms. 9



### Perm u t? 10



### MS. PERM U T: I am. 11


### MS. SUTIN: So you'll be first. 12



### MS. PERM U T: My name is Susan Perm u t, I 13



### live in Monum ent, Colorado and for the last two 14


### years I have been ten miles, just about, from 15


### both of the fires near Colorado Springs. The 16


### water canyon fire and also the black forest fire 17



### and I have had to get all my stuff ready to 18


### evacuate and it's terrifying. 19



### And I would really support the EPA's 20


### effort to limit carbon pollution from power 21


### plants. I think it's a crucial step towards 22

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### protecting global health and safety. I do think 1



### that the proposed clean power plan falls short of 2



### what is needed. I think that what we need is 3


### obtaining at least 80 percent of our energy from 4



### clean
, renewable sources such as wind and solar 5



### by 2015. 6



### I would like the EPA to call for more 7


### ambitious reductions of at least 40 percent below 8



### 1990 levels by 2020
, and ensure that states sti ck 9


### to the schedule by allowing for no extensions on 10



### plans for 2020. 11


### States should be encouraged to achieve 12


### these goals by closing as many fossil fuel plants 13


### as possible through maximizing efficiency and 14


### aggressively ramping up renewables. Encouraging 15



### inc reased reliance on natural gas will not lead 16


### to the necessary emission reductions. 17



### The rules should encourage clean 18


### renewable energy, rather than dirty natural gas. 19


### Natural gas is very bad for the environment and 20


### it's not a solution. So switching from coal to 21



### renewable energy makes much more sense from both 22

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### an economic and a climate perspective. 1


### Thank you for letting me have my two 2


### minutes, I appreciate it very much. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. Ms. Perm u t, can 4


### you just spell your name for the court repor ter. 5



### MS. PERMIT: It's S

- u

- s

- a

- n, P as in Paul 6



### e

- r

- m

- u

- t. 7


### Thank you. Mitty, is it Aponte? 8



### MS. APONTE: Yes, Mitty Aponte. And 9


### I'll make my remarks very brief. My name is 10


### Mitty Aponte, I am a newly ad mi t ted resident to 11


### the state of Colorado, having s pent the last ten 12


### years in our nation's capit a l. 13



### I owe much of my political and 14


### professional career to my time in Washington, 15


### witnessing the inner workings of the government 16


### and crafting strategic talking points that would 17


### influence an audience or lobby on their behalf, 18


### be it the constituent, the congressional 19


### representative, the corporate decisionmaker or 20



### the NGO leader. 21


### In Washington, the center of the world is 22

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### Washington. I have learned since my arrival, 1


### perhaps, humbly so, that the real world exi sts 2



### everywhere else. Among those folks that we 3


### condescendingly call, "ordinary Americans". 4



### T he decision you are about to embark on, 5


### has a direct impact on the lives

-- the precious 6



### lives of children and teachers, business owners, 7


### community activists, p astors, preachers, fathers, 8


### mothers, grandparents, Latinas, African 9


### Americans, Muslim, Christian, Jews and every 10


### other group you could possibly imagine who make 11


### up the fabric of our country. And who get up 12


### each day, right here in Colorado, existing under 13


### the threat of air pollution with every breath 14


### that is taken, and sometimes they don't even

-- 15



### they're not aware. 16


### It is time to protect, and it is time 17



### that

-- it is to them, that you must answer to 18


### and to them that we have a moral obligation to 19



### protect. 20


### Many statistics have been cited today, 21


### studies on the impact of climate change have been 22

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### referenced and you have heard thousands of voices 1


### advocating for the support of the clean power 2



### plan. To these, add myself. 3


### As we think about minority audiences, w e 4


### usually have a certain typical frame in mind, but 5



### I am a Latina, I am a Cuban

- American, I grew up 6



### near a power plant and I have battled asthma 7


### throughout my entire life. I sleep with an 8


### inhaler on my nightstand, and I make sure that 9


### there is always one on me, in my purse or in my 10


### backpack, or my car. Do I owe my condition to 11


### air pollution? I'm not entirely sure. There are 12


### likely many contributing factors to it. However, 13


### I cannot deny its link. 14



### So today I strongly support the 15



### E nvironmental P rotecti on A gency and hope that it 16


### will protect the health and safety of people like 17


### me, and ordinary Americans who live extraordinary 18


### lives from the dangers of carbon pollution in our 19


### nation's power plants. 20



### Thank you. 21



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. 22

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### M r. Applegate, go ahead. 1



### MR. APPLEGATE: Good afternoon. Thank 2


### you for allowing public comment for the proposed 3



### clean power plan. 4


### My name is Chris Applegate and I was born 5



### and raised in the Ozark M ountains of Missouri, 6


### and I am now living here in Colorado, working in 7


### the oil and gas industry. I am here, downtown. 8


### I am here today to speak in favor though, 9



### of the plan that the EPA has put forward. I 10



### don't believe that our future is doomed if we 11



### move to a renewable energy future. I don't 12


### believe we are going to live w ith the lights off. 13


### I don't believe we are going to be using horse 14


### and buggy. This coming from someone that works 15


### in the industry that we are trying to move away 16



### from. 17


### I may work in the fossil fuel industry, 18



### but it doesn't mean I don't care about our 19



### cl imate. What I do believe, is that this plan 20


### offers our country a great opportunity. I 21


### believe it will make us a world champion on 22

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### solving our future energy problems. I believe 1


### that the millions of people in communities that 2


### are subjected to power plants that emit large 3


### amounts of pollution directly in their backyards, 4


### are going to see a healthier future. 5


### The clean power plan will create 6


### healthier communities, jobs and will help protect 7


### our heritage for future generations. Our 8



### communities are at risk as well. My hometown of 9


### Branson, Missouri has been impacted from droughts 10


### and three major flooding events in the past 11


### decade. Residents in the area are weary and have 12


### noticed a change in the climate. 13



### M y grandmother's home has been subjected 14


### to flooding that has never occurred before, 15



### except over the past decade. She has had over 16


### three flooding events in her home. She has had 17


### to install a water pump, replace carpet multiple 18


### times, and work aggressively to reduce the amount 19


### of runoff hitting her home. I t was no easy task 20


### to deal with, and completely unexpected. 21


### Our community has been hit by floods, 22

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### droughts and twisters, one of which, even 1


### impacted my mom and dad, and community friends 2


### just two years ago. Some of my family items were 3



### found up to 500 ya rds away from their home, some 4


### of which were found in a cemetery, which really 5


### makes me blessed that my parents were not injured 6



### or killed like countless others in communities 7



### across the country due to these extreme events. 8


### These series of events in the p ast decade 9


### have shown our community that the climate is 10


### changing, and is having a real economic impact on 11



### our livelihoods. 12


### Even though our climate may be changing, 13


### there is hope. The clean power plan is a step 14


### toward a better tomorrow. It is a step that we 15


### are long overdue to take. It is a progress 16



### towards a future with cleaner air and water for 17


### every community across our country. 18


### I don't see coal jobs or my job just 19


### disappearing with nowhere to go. I see these 20


### jobs moving with our ever

- changing eco nomy. I 21


### already know some coal miners back in Oklahoma 22

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### that now work in other sectors of the economy 1



### today. 2



### I see no harm in these rules that will 3


### affect me, other than creating cleaner air and 4


### water for myself and every American around the 5



### country. We need to be investing in technologies 6



### that w ill power us forward in the 21st century. 7


### We can solve our climate issues, protect our 8


### economy, and make the air we breathe and the 9



### water we drink cleaner. 10



### C lean energy is on the rise and our 11



### economy has not t anked, quite opposite. We are 12


### adding jobs, unemployment rates are at the lowest 13


### since at the height of the great recession, our 14


### economy is moving towards clean energy just too 15



### slow. 16


### This plan will boost investment and 17


### continue the job growth we have be en witnessing. 18


### I hope the clean power plan is adopted because 19


### the cost of inaction will be greater if we don't 20



### act now. Thank you. 21



### MS. SUT IN: Thank you, Mr. Applegate. 22

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### Okay, we are going to take a 15 minute 1


### break. Our next speaker isn't until 6:20 o r so. 2


### So feel free to wait and we'll start up again 3



### around 6:15. 4



### ( Brief recess taken at 6:00 p.m.) 5



### ( Record resumes at 6:17 p.m. ) 6


### MS. SUTIN: Okay. We're going to get 7


### started again. If I can have George Walker and 8


### James Cody come up to the podium. Ar e you

-- 9



### MR. CODY: James Cody. 10



### MS. SUTIN: James Cody. Is George Walker 11



### here? Okay. G o ahead, Mr. Cody. 12


### MR. CODY: Can you hear me, is this on? 13



### MS. SUTIN: Why don ' t you use that one. 14



### Oh, that one may be off too. 15



### MR. CODY: Okay. I can speak lo uder. 16


### Good evening, my name is James Cody and I am here 17


### tonight in support of the proposed emission 18


### standards which would put our country on a path 19


### towards sustainability. 20


### I am here tonight representing myself, 21


### and before I begin, I would like to thank y ou for 22

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### hearing my opinion tonight. 1


### I am 22 years old and currently living in 2


### Boulder, Colorado, and I am entering my senior 3


### year, currently studying psychology and 4


### sociology. All around the world, people are 5


### beginning to feel the effects of climate cha nge. 6


### Severe droughts in California, which is the 7


### U.S.'s number one agricultural producer. 8



### Acidification of our fisheries in the northeast, 9


### and rising sea levels in Bangladesh, which are on 10


### pace to displace millions. 11



### H ere in Colorado, warming river 12



### tem peratures are beginning to threaten native 13


### fisheries, changing climate is affecting 14


### snowfall, and we are experiencing severe forest 15



### fires, which in 2012 and 2013 burned down almost 16



### 250,000 acres of forest here in Colorado. 17



### The resources we use are finite and if we 18


### want to secure a sustainable energy system for 19



### our future, it is critical we act now. 20



### A few years back, I was able to take a 21



### life

- changing trip to Patagonia, Chile, where my 22

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### understanding between human and environment 1


### interaction changed. No longer was I blind from 2


### the natural world, and I began to notice just how 3


### much human life has impacted climate and our 4



### ecosystems around the world. 5


### Adopting carbon pollution standards are 6


### important to me because that means that future 7


### generations will hav e the same opportunity to 8


### experience the natural world as I had the ability 9


### to. If we delay any longer, in c u rbing our CO2 10


### emissions, we risk destroying our environment and 11


### hindering future generations' ability to learn 12


### and grow from the interactions with nature. 13


### By taking a stand today, and adopting the 14


### proposed carbon emission standards, we will be 15


### taking a step forward in securing a sustainable 16


### planet for our future and helping preserve our 17


### great outdoors for future generations to come. 18



### The proposed c arbon pollution standards 19


### plan will help protect human and environmental 20


### health, while still providing Colorado with 21


### sustainable energy to the state of Colorado. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Cody. 2


### Would you mind just spelling your name 3



### for th e court reporter? 4



### MR. CODY: Yeah. The first and last or

-- 5



### MS. SUTIN: Last is fine. 6



### MR. CODY: C

- o

- d

- y

. 7



### MS. SUTIN: Okay. If I could have 8



### William Owens? 9



### MR. OWENS: Is this on? 10


### MS. SUTIN: You know, the system is shut 11


### down and won't start up agai n until 6:30. So, 12



### I'm sorry. 13


### MR. OWENS: Doggone, it must be in the 14



### union. 15


### PARTICIPANT: The system is going to shut 16



### down at 6:30? 17



### MS. SUTIN: Oh, it is? 18



### PARTICIPANT: Yeah. 19



### MS. SUTIN: Oh, other way around. It's 20


### working. 21



### MR. OWENS: It is workin g? 22

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### MS. SUTIN: Sorry, it is going to shut

-- 1


### MR. OWENS: Are we working? Testing, 2



### one, two. 3



### MS. SUTIN: Yeah. 4



### MR. OWENS: Great. This is my audition 5



### for Channel 4. 6


### Now, you all should have copies of the 7


### transcript there; right? 8



### MS. SUTIN: Uh

- hu h. 9



### MR. OWENS: Okay. Cool. Al l ri ght, well 10


### my name is William Owens. I am a resident of 11



### Santeo, (ph) Colorado and my last name is spelled 12



### O

- w

- e

- n

- s. I have no other affiliation of 13


### particular to note. I would like to thank you 14


### for this opportunity to testify and I wanted to 15


### also give you the benefit of two testimonies in 16


### one timeslot, and I hope I can do that. Is that 17



### okay? 18



### MS. SUTIN: You have five minutes. 19


### MR. OWENS: Five minutes, good. Thank 20



### you very much. 21



### The first is from Ms. Leslie Weis of 22

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### Monument , Colorado, and then I will deliver my 1


### own testimony and finish within the five minute 2


### time limit, assuming I don't get choked up. 3



### I've worked as an in

- house

-- this is Ms. 4


### Weis' testimony. I worked as an in

- house 5



### counselor for F ortune 500 com panies, focusing for 6


### the past 10 years, on those developing technology 7


### and products to displace fossil fuels from energy 8


### production. 9



### M y eight

- year

- old son and I have 10


### witnessed, literally, from the roadside, three of 11



### Colorado's most destructive wildfires over the 12



### past three years. Boulder's four

- mile canyon 13


### fire, the Wild Oak Canyon fire, the black forest 14


### fire that destroyed over 500 homes, including 15


### that of my sister. While it's disturbing that 16



### he's growing up believing that these wild fires 17



### are normal . Yet, he's academically advanced in 18


### science, so he was genuinely confused when his 19



### substitute teacher read to his class, a book 20



### about weather and then told the class that 21


### climate change was not true, but was something 22

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### made up by scientists. 1



### Well, becaus e of our knowledge and 2


### advocacy on the topic, that teacher was 3


### reprimanded and had to make a statement of 4



### correction to the class. 5



### Well
, climate change denial also exists 6


### in the Colorado Springs City Council, which 7


### manages their electric utility. At ci ty council 8


### meetings, I volunteer with a small group of 9


### community professionals to ensure that a blend of 10


### renewable energy and efficiency investments are 11



### included in the utilit y' s plans to serve over 12



### 500,000 people. 13



### C hange won't be easy, because at last 14


### month's city council meeting, we heard two 15


### members of the city council profess to be climate 16


### change deniers. One of them, proudly stating 17


### that he had written extensively on the hoax. 18


### Well, I've seen the real world impact of 19


### climate change and the catastr ophic impact of the 20



### Colorado fires and the teachers and the council 21



### member s ' ignorance on the science of climate. 22

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### Therefore, I enthusiastically support the EPA's 1


### plans for carbon reduction standards so that this 2


### critical topic can be addressed, rather tha n 3


### ignored. 4


### That's the end of Ms. Weis' testimony, 5


### and my testimony follows. 6


### This debate about CO2 and power 7


### production is often framed in the context of 8


### jobs. I am not here to deny the importance of 9


### jobs, I've been laid off a few times, so I fully 10



### appr eciate the value of jobs. But we should also 11


### weigh the costs of CO2, and other harmful 12


### emissions from burning coal, because they impose 13



### a tremendous cost on human health. 14


### The coal industry wants us to simply 15


### accept the value of the electricity they produ ce. 16


### They say that to do otherwise, will cost us jobs. 17


### You see, they are waving the jobs flag to 18



### distract us from the cost to life and health. 19


### The costs include, the negative impact to the 20


### agriculture that we need to sustain life, due to 21



### CO2

- driven clima te change. 22

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### T wo, the increase in downwind 1


### debilitating in asthma cases. 2


### Three, breathing difficulties for others 3


### with impaired lungs due to nitrous and sulfurous 4


### oxides from older plants, and yes, it even 5



### affects our diet because we are recommended to 6


### reduce or eliminate the consumption of coal plant 7



### mercury

- laden tuna from our diet, especially for 8



### pregnant women. 9


### So as we hear the coal industry's 10


### argument on behalf of jobs, we must also consider 11


### the cost of public health. We should ask, how 12



### many cre ated or saved coal industry jobs are 13


### needed to offset the cost of the lives they 14


### compromise. We can do better. 15



### I urge that the EPA's proposed 16


### regulations be adopted, substantially as 17


### proposed. We have to start somewhere and this is 18


### a small, but import ant step toward doing better. 19


### And part of that solution, to reach the 30 20


### percent CO2 reduction, could be to use more clean 21



### and renewable energy sources. They too, create 22

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### jobs as we've seen, for example, in our own state 1


### with Vestis up in Brighton, Color ado. But they 2


### don't cost lives and health, like coal plants to. 3



### Well, on behalf of Ms. Leslie Weis and 4


### myself, thank you for this opportunity to 5


### testify. Thank you. 6



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Owens. 7


### Next, if I can have Angela Stephens. 8



### MS. STEPHENS : Hello. Angela Stephens, 9



### S

- t

- e

- p

- h

- e

- n

- s. 10


### Hi, I am Angela Stephens, a mom of a 10

- 11



### year

- old son, who is here with me today. I am 12



### also here with Colorado Moms Know Best, a network 13


### of moms working to protect Colorado's air for our 14



### children's health an d well

- being. 15


### I am also an active member of my 16


### community, as a leader living in one of 17


### Lakewood's sustainable neighborhoods. 18


### I am here today in support of the new 19


### proposed carbon emissions standards. We cannot 20


### wait any longer to solve any of the issue s 21


### related to our changing climate. All too often 22

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### we distance ourselves from our environment, and 1


### the impact we have on it. It's time we move on 2


### from that way of thinking and support new ideas 3



### and solutions. 4


### I support strong action to further limit 5



### car bon in the atmosphere and to continue 6


### protecting our relivable environment. 7


### I'm working on a local level to do that 8


### within my household, my neighborhood, and 9


### community. In my sustainable neighborhood, we 10


### are educating our neighbors about the impact we 11



### have on our air, water, land
, and health. We 12


### have our own goals to reduce our carbon emissions 13


### in our community. We hold energy

- related 14


### workshops and educational outreach to help others 15


### get on the path to a sustainable future. 16



### I would like to see this take place on a 17


### grander scale, by implementing the new clean 18


### power plan for emission standards. 19


### Recently scientists at NOAA in Hawaii, 20


### reported that the last three months, April, May 21


### and June had averaged levels of carbon dioxide 22

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### above 400 parts per mill ion. It's the longest 1


### period in known history where this much carbon 2


### dioxide has been in the atmosphere. Scientists 3



### are concerned that this landmark threshold is now 4


### becoming the norm. This is what keeps me and 5


### many other moms, up at night. It's time t o act 6


### to keep that level from getting any higher. 7



### Most scientists believe in their current 8


### conservative estimate, that things will get worse 9


### before they get better. This is the time to 10


### support policies that bring down our carbon 11



### emissions, and we need to consider all sources of 12


### carbon to truly be effective. 13


### Regulating carbon emissions from coal 14


### plants will be the most significant thing we 15



### Americans have ever done to address climate 16


### change, and this is an opportunity to implement a 17



### successful plan for o ur children's future. We 18


### can lead other nations in reducing carbon 19


### emissions, while having a lasting, positive 20


### impact on the environment and the health of our 21


### children for future generations to come. 22

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### Thank you, very much. 1



### MS. SU TIN: Thank you, Ms. Step hens. 2


### Next, if I could have Megan Cowley. 3


### MS. COWLEY: So my name is Megan Cowley, 4



### C

- o

- w

- l

- e

- y. Good evening. 5


### I'd first like to thank you all for 6


### giving me the opportunity to speak today. My 7


### name is Megan Cowley, I'm 21 years old and I am a 8



### recent g raduate from the University of British 9



### Columbia in Vancouver, but I'm a native 10



### Coloradan. 11


### I am here tonight representing myself, in 12


### support of the proposed carbon pollution standard 13


### rules. These rules are beneficial as they work 14


### towards maintaining an affordable, reliable 15


### energy system, while cutting pollution levels and 16


### protecting our health and environment. The plan 17



### is also both realistic and flexible, as it aims 18


### to standardize carbon pollution levels of power 19


### plants, while leaving it up to each stat e to set 20



### their own levels. 21


### With regard to the current issue of 22

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### climate change, we have never been more 1


### vulnerable as a human race, than we are right 2


### now, which is why these proposed rules are so 3



### crucial. 4


### Carbon emissions are contributing to an 5



### intense alteration of our atmosphere, leading to 6


### severe weather patterns that are destroying our 7


### communities. Immensely destructive droughts, 8



### massive forest fires and severe floods are 9


### occurring more often, and on larger scales. 10



### The connection between the level s of 11


### carbon pollution we are putting into the air, and 12


### these destructive weather events, is clearly 13


### evident. Global warming is occurring and we, as 14


### productive human beings, are acting out of 15


### selfish personal interests for profit. The 16



### consequences are get ting nastier, and we really 17


### need to act right now. 18



### Last summer, communities all over 19



### Colorado were devastated with the floods that 20


### forced the state into an emergency state of 21


### disaster on September 12, 2013. Three days after 22

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### the declaration, counties incl uding Boulder had 1


### received up to 17 inches of rain, which is the 2


### annual recorded rainfall for the county for a 3


### whole year. Fifteen hundred homes were 4


### completely destroyed, with another 19,000 5


### severely damaged. At least eight people died 6


### during the disast er, innumerable amounts were 7


### declared missing
, and over 1,500 people had to be 8



### evacuated from their homes. 9


### Even in my hometown of Evergreen, up in 10


### the mountains, we were getting hit harder by 11


### rainfall than ever before. The gorgeous 12



### Evergreen Lake was com pletely overflowing into 13


### the streets, and everyone in the area was trapped 14


### from getting in or out of their homes for days. 15


### Our local bar on the river was completely washed 16



### away and had to close down for three months for 17


### repairs. 18



### Over those two weeks, I watched my home 19



### and the rest of the state that I know and love, 20



### go completely under water, and I have never felt 21



### so helpless. It scared me because there was 22

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### nothing we could do to stop the rain, and it 1



### angered me because the severe weather was unusual 2



### fo r a reason. 3



### The personal damage and losses that 4


### occurred last year were invaluable. People lost 5


### their lives. Evergreen Lake is still under 6


### repair. All of this death and destruction 7


### possibly could have been controlled, had we 8



### addressed this issue of cli mate change sooner 9



### than now. 10



### Our cities cannot continue to fall, due 11


### to something as powerful and relentless as a 12



### severe weather event. It would be both extremely 13


### irresponsible and unwise not to address our 14


### contribution to global warming, head

- on, righ t 15



### now. 16


### We should not consciously allow these 17



### destructive and life

- ruining events to continue 18


### to occur and worsen, leaving it up to our 19


### children and our future generations to handle. 20


### If we had the option to lower carbon emissions 21



### and clean up our energy s ystems, why wouldn't we. 22

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### We shouldn't be in the place we are now, but we 1


### are. It is time to act, and the clean power plan 2


### is a step in the right direction to a cleaner and 3



### safer planet. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you Ms. Cowley. 6



### Next if we can hav e Spencer Carnes. 7


### MR. CARNES: Good evening. Thank you for 8


### having me here today. My name is Spencer Carnes, 9



### spelled C

- a

- r

- n

- e

- s, and I am here today as a 10


### young person, a student, and as an individual who 11


### wishes to one day provide for his children and 12



### se t them up to provide for their own. 13


### I am here today to voice my support for 14


### the proposed carbon emission standards. It is my 15


### duty, as a citizen living under a contaminated 16


### sky, as a student realizing the impact s theorized 17


### by the discourse surrounding the potential 18


### impacts of climate change. And as the generation 19



### charge d with siring the next, to impart the 20


### importance and relevance these regulations have 21


### in my life. 22

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### Due to the distance presented by the 1


### studies, and the complex nature of the topic, it 2



### is h ard to give a useful, progressive, five

3


### minute testimony on the reduction of carbon 4



### standards, so let me stick to what I know. 5


### What I know is that, as human beings, and 6


### as all life on earth, everything is fragile. For 7



### all we know, we are the only organ ic life to 8


### exist in what is an unfathomably large universe. 9


### Therefore, it is logical to assume that we will 10


### never find a habitable ecosystem outside the one 11


### that we have been given by chance. And if this 12


### is the case, then it is our duty to maintain the 13



### e cosystem for generations to come. 14


### It would be historically greedy to argue 15


### that the ecosystem exclusively belongs to solely 16


### this population in this moment of history. It is 17


### our duty to protect the ecosystem in the name of 18



### all that we have worked for as a society and all 19


### that we may continue to work for in the future. 20


### As a person living under the sky this society has 21


### contaminated and damaged, I am excited at the 22

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### opportunity to reduce our impact on the planet 1


### for the sake of future generations. 2



### People oft en ask me why I decided to 3


### major in English and political science, two 4


### highly unrelated topics. But the fact of the 5



### matter is that the two are not so different. 6


### Politics is the filter through which human beings 7


### interact and contain their disagreements. 8


### English is the language with which the majority 9


### of the American people engage in their political 10



### discourse. 11



### The reason I concentrate on these 12


### particular schools of trade, is because I desire 13



### to facilitate the conversations that will enable 14



### my peers, our children, and the generations to 15



### come, to follow in their forefather s ' dream of a 16


### pursuit of happiness. 17


### Today we engage in such a conversation. 18


### Today the EPA takes the necessary steps in 19


### providing for our future as a race. I've said a 20



### lot today, I've t alked about how hard I'm working 21


### to make the world a better place with my studies, 22

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### and about how hard I'm working to give my unborn 1


### children a future. I can't give you a bunch of 2


### science pertaining to the reduction of carbon 3



### standards, and there are plent y of people here 4


### that can. I am here to testify before you all 5


### today, to show you the importance and pertinence 6


### these regulations have in, not only my future, 7


### but the future of generations of great minds to 8


### come. And if these regulations are taken 9



### seriou sly and go without mutilation by large 10


### corporations attempting to protect their wallets, 11


### instead of the air they breathe, then the 12


### generations to come can use these regulations as 13


### a stepping stone to make the foundation for a new 14


### kind of environmentally fr iendly industrial 15


### society. 16


### Thank you for your time. 17



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Carnes. 18


### Next if we can have Fabian Laguna. 19


### MR. LAGUNA: Hi, my name is Fabian 20



### Laguna, spelled F

- a

- b

- i

- a

- n L

- a

- g

- u

- n

- a. 21



### I am an 18

- year

- old student at CU 22

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### Boulder, and a lifetime Coloradan. I am here 1


### today representing myself, and I would like to 2


### thank you for the opportunity. 3



### I'm very eager to encourage the EPA to 4


### adopt the rules we've gathered for. Since the 5


### beginning of the industrial revolution, our 6



### frivolous use of finite resources on this planet 7


### has been leaving the natural habitat in an 8


### increasingly menacing state. While Colorado has 9



### taken many forward

- thinking steps to ensure a 10


### healthier habitat, the dependency on carbon fuels 11


### that we have developed on this plan et, and most 12


### of all, in this country, calls for a more 13


### immediate and comprehensive set of actions. 14


### Our earth is shifting aggressively in 15


### terms of climate. Regulating carbon emissions is 16


### a crucial step towards addressing the extreme 17



### dangers posed to our natural environment. As a 18


### person that has grown up at a time in which this 19


### planet has faced momentous technological 20



### innovation a n d scientific progress, I'm extremely 21



### excited for the future. 22

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### Yet, if we wish to progress any more as a 1



### human race, it is ab solutely imperative that we 2


### have the healthy living space to do so. This is 3


### why now is the time to take steps in combating 4


### climate change and ensuring a healthy planet. 5



### There are reasonable measures that we 6



### must take, that we can take at this moment, as 7



### inhabitants of this earth to ensure our well

8


### being and that of future generations. 9


### Regulating our carbon output is important 10


### resolution in this process. Aside from the 11


### environmental implications of using carbon as an 12



### energy source, there comes extreme economic 13


### irresponsibility. Given many recent 14


### technological advancements, we've shown the 15


### ability to create energy that is almost 16



### completely carbon neutral. Although the 17



### technology for renewable energy has yet to be 18


### refined, with the proper conditions, we will 19


### likely innovate these systems to become not only 20



### affordable, but also effective. 21


### It is necessary to understand that our 22

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### dependence on finite resources must, and will, 1


### end eventually. Regulating carbon emissions is 2



### an extremely agreeable platform fo r states to 3


### follow and begin their inevitable journey to a 4



### more sustainable future. 5


### By instating this new regulation, the 6


### country will take a much needed step towards a 7


### potential ly bright and distant future for 8


### humanity. We must not commit the same mis takes 9


### as our predecessors. We must be wise and plan 10


### for our future. Our destiny as beings in this 11


### universe is completely dependent on our decision s 12



### here and now. 13


### May I say, that as young intellects in 14


### this generation, we are in the process of 15


### preparing, molding, and initiating the next 16


### paradigm of our global civilization. Why not 17


### help us initiate the process of making this 18


### planet and this country more sustainable. For 19


### many generations to come will be extremely 20



### thankful of our forward

- thinking approache s taken 21



### today. 22

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### A s a young person, an American, and as a 1


### human being, I ask you to please hear my words. 2



### When I say that our future, my future, and our 3


### children's future, depend on our decision s here 4



### and now. Please allow our decisions to be 5



### forever re garded as wise. Please adopt the 6



### proposed rules. 7


### Thank you for your time. 8



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you, Mr. Laguna. 9



### Next, if we could have Leslie Glustrom. 10


### MS. GLUSTROM: My name is Leslie 11



### Glustrom, L

- e

- s

- l

- i

- e G

- l

- u

- s

- t

- r

- o

- m. 12



### I live in Colorado, I've been working on 13


### climate change and energy issues for a long time. 14


### I recognized quite a long time ago that the key 15


### to this is not just how fabulous wind and solar 16


### are, but really understanding coal. So I've made 17


### it my business to know coal, one of my many 18


### nicknames is queen of coal. I'm a geeky girl, I 19


### like a lot of data, you've heard a lot of words 20



### today, I brought a lot of data and graphs and 21


### I've given you just mostly the graphs. I'll 22

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### submit detailed comments down the road. 1


### There's a very important m essage

-- let 2



### me go back up and tell the personal story. I was 3


### part of the Boulder flood. My electric bill, on 4


### average, is about $1,000 a year, working in round 5


### numbers, $10,000 over a decade. Our flood 6


### recovery, which was relatively minor compared to 7



### m ost people, was $15,000. So if we add in those 8


### costs along with our electricity, all of a sudden 9


### instead of $10,000, we're looking at $25,000, so 10


### there's nothing cheap about coal. 11


### We were relatively minor damage, we 12


### didn't lose any people, it was just ca rpet and 13


### drywall and a bunch of furniture and all that, 14


### but $15,000 is a really big deal, my husband is a 15


### teacher and I am a volunteer so it was a really 16


### big deal to us. So there's nothing cheap about 17


### coal if you consider external costs. 18


### Even if you do n't consider external costs 19


### and you just look at the price of delivered coal, 20


### and I think this is the one I've put on top, here 21



### for Colorado

-- we've analyzed this for every 22

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### state that uses coal, it's all available at 1


### cleanenergyaction.org, and you can see that the 2


### price of coal is going up, it's about doubled in 3


### a decade, it's going up about 7 percent a year, a 4


### little over 7 percent a year in Colorado. That's 5



### two to three times inflation, at least. 6


### And one of the very important messages 7


### I'm hoping you la dies will make sure that the 8


### folks in D.C. understand, is that your model for 9


### analyzing the status quo, our reliance on coal, 10


### is flat wrong. That's the nicest thing I can say 11


### about your coal model. And I know you ladies 12


### probably didn't have anything to d o with it, but 13


### you might understand that it's very ha rd to 14


### penetrate Washington D.C. I've been there many 15



### times, I've talked to EIA, I'v e talked to many 16



### people on the H ill. I've worked extremely hard, 17


### we've written two long reports, we had a front

18



### page s tory in the Wall Street Journal, you've got 19


### a copy of that in your packet. 20


### The EPA is relying on the E nergy 21



### I nformation A dministration. Energy I nformation 22

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### A dministration is flat wrong. So your model is 1



### flat wrong. It assumes that the more energy you 2



### de mand, the more we're going to get. And we'll 3


### just open coal mines willy

- nilly. 4



### Now you ask these young people how they 5


### feel about opening new coal mines. Independent 6



### o f how they feel, there are very serious economic 7


### issues. We've written these all up in two 8


### reports, again, all available at 9


### cleanenergyaction.org. Because I am the queen of 10



### coal. O ne of them is called, warning faulty 11


### reporting of U.S. coal reserves. When your team, 12


### back in D.C. understands this, you will start to 13



### have a much better co al report, coal model, and 14



### you'll also have a much better assessment of the 15



### economic costs

-- or savings of this proposal 16



### that you've made. 17


### Just to show you a little bit of data, 18



### near the front of your packet , I realize I don't 19



### have it in

-- as in the flo od, my house is still 20


### a disaster, is U.S. coal production. You can see 21


### that we very likely peaked in 2008, that we have 22

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### fallen off significantly since then. I know most 1


### of the large coal mines in the United States, I 2


### know their geology, I know there econ omics, I 3


### know a huge about them, I obviously can't tell 4


### you that in five minutes. But I need you all to 5


### carry this message to D.C., so that the folks in 6


### D.C. quit acting like their in this ec h o chamber, 7



### where they assume that the EIA knows what they're 8



### ta lking about, because respectfully, the EIA 9



### doesn't. That's why we had a front

- page story in 10


### the Wall Street Journal that's in your packet. 11



### It's the geology, we've accessed the 12


### easily accessible coal, it's getting much harder 13



### to do it now. So it's becomi ng much more 14


### expensive. 15


### Wyoming coal production has fallen off 16


### dramatically, Colorado coal production has fallen 17


### off dramatically. All of this is available in 18


### two companion reports at cleanenergyaction.org. 19


### I'm begging the EPA to look at the data, 20



### star t at cleanenergyaction.org, we've got lots of 21


### blogs, lots of reports, I think you probably have 22

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### my contact information somewhere. And, you know, 1



### we come free, we know the data, we've analyzed 2


### it, endlessly. 3



### And then another

-- Ron Lair who spoke 4



### this m orning was our former chair of U tilities 5



### C ommission, just talked about how adding wind and 6


### solar will reduce our system costs in Colorado. 7


### In your packet is a short report I wrote for one 8


### of our local groups, and just talking about all 9



### of the evidence we have in Colorado, that adding 10



### wind and solar saves costs, it doesn't add costs. 11


### So those are the sorts of things we hope 12


### you'll use our expertise to understand at a 13



### deeper level. 14



### MS. SUTIN: Thank you. 15



### At this time, we are going to close this 16


### hearing room. There will be additional speakers 17


### in room A. So if you were here to speak, move to 18


### room A. If you're here to listen, also move to 19



### room A. We will be here until 8:00. I am 20


### officially closing the evening session of July 21



### 29th. Thank you all for co ming. 22

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### O

- - 0 1


### [Whereupon, at 7 : 01 p.m., the Clean Power 2



### Plan Pub lic Hearing , Room B, c oncluded.] 3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

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