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### U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

PUBLIC HEARING:

**Standards of Performance f**  **or Greenhouse Gas**  **Emissions**

8 : 34 a.m. through 4: 01 p.m. T h u r sday, May 24 , 20 12

Ralph H. Metcalf Federal Building Lake Eerie Room, 12th Floor

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### EPA PANEL:

**Mike Koerbek,** Hearing Chair Associate Director for Policy, Office of Air Quality, Policy, and Standards, EPA **Nick Hutson,** Sector Policies and Program Division, EPA **Richard A ngelbeck,**  Region 5 Office, EPA **Alexis Cain ,**  U.S. EPA (afternoon substitute for Richard Angelbeck)

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### C O N T E N T S Page Public Comments:

**Jennifer L. Cassel,** Environmental Law and Policy Center ..

. ............................ 9 **Brian Urbaszewski,** Respiratory Health Associat ion of Metro politan Chicago

......... 13 **Amber Ladeira,** Un ion of Concerned Scientists ..22 **Theresa Pugh,** American Public Power ...........25 **Blake Lenoir,** Sierra Club and Greenp eace ......30 **Grant Smith,** Civil Society Institute ..........3 3 **Dave Menzer,** Concerned Citizen ................4 1 **John McCauley,** Op eration Free .................46 **Steve Frenkel,** Un ion of Concerned Scientists ..48 **Joseph Kowalis,** Student, Western Michigan University .... ..............................57 **Boise Jones,** Green Water Energy, Sierra Club North Star Chap ter ..........................59 **Eula C. McNeill,** Commissioner of Red Springs, Robeson County, NC .........................

. 63 **Richard Stucke y,**  Sierra Club ..................67 **Jane G. Grable,** C oncerned Citizen .............72 **Michael Olenger,** Chimney Safety Institute .....73 **Cindy Kitzmiller,** Concerned Child .............79 **Kathy Kieser,** Concerned Citizen ... ............83 **Matthew Withers**  **,** Con cerned Citizen ............85 **Donna Hriljac,** Concerned Citizen ... ...........87 **Bill Davis,** Concerned Citizen ... ..............89 **Toby Chow,** SOUL, S outhsiders Organized for Unity and Liberation ........................ 9 2 **Martin Molowski,** Student, Univers ity of Illinois, Springfield

.... ................... 9 8 **Sandy Carter,** Stu dent, University of Chicago .103 **Anita Belodis,** Family Physician ... ...........106 **Tom Simar,** NRDC, Natural Resources Defense Council .......... ..........................108 **Denni s**  **Nelson,** NEIS, Nuclear Energy, Information Ser vice ........................114 **Alicia Klepfer,** UCCAN, University of Chicago Climate Action Network ... ..................117OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### C O N T E N T S Page Public Comm ents:

**Carla Eisenberg**  **,** Concerned Citizen ...........121 **Meleah Geertsma**  **,** NRDC, Natural Resources Defense Council ............................123 **Don Ferber,** Sierra Club ......................131 **Judy Skog,** Harmony Valley Farm CSA ...........138 **Maria To rres,**  Pilsen Alliance ................143 **Howard Lee,** Wirehead Technology ..............146 **Roberto Carmona,** Crimson Leadership Group ....152 **Leanne Castin,** CAPOW, Citizens Act to Protect Our Water ..................................156 **Patricia Walter,**

. ............................164 **Carolyn Gerwin,** Illinois Wind Watch ..........173 **Lawrence T. Lemon,** Ohio Conference of NAACP ..179 **Gary Jones,** Concerned Citizen ................185 **Michael Ohlinger,** Concerned High School Student ........................ ............190 **Cory Jones,** Concerned Citizen ................191 **Jocelyn Travis,** Concerned Citizen ............197 **Lyman, Welch,** Concerned Citizen ..............206

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1



### MR. KOERBER : Good morning, and thank you 2



### for attendin g this public hearing. My name is 3



### Mike Koerber, and I am the Associate Director for 4



### Policy in EPA's Office of Air Quality, Planning, 5



### and Standards. I will be chairing today's 6



### hearing. 7



### Joining me on the panel are Nick Hutson 8



### with EPA's Sector Policies an d Programs Division 9



### in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina; and 10



### Rich Angelbeck with EPA's Region 5 office. 11



### We are here today to listen to your 12



### comments on EPA's P roposed C arbon P ollution 13



### S tandard for N ew P ower P lants. EPA published a 14



### proposed

-- EPA p ublished the proposed standard 15



### in the Federal Register on April 13th. This 16



### common sense step under the Clean Air Act would, 17



### for the first time, set national limits on the 18



### amount of carbon pollution power plants built in 19



### the future can emit. 20



### For future po wer plants EPA's proposing 21



### to set an output base standard of 1,000 pounds of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### carbon dioxide per megawatt hour. The Agency's 1



### proposal does not apply to existing sources or to 2



### planned units that have already received permits 3



### and break ground within the next 12 months. 4



### EPA's proposed standard reflects the 5



### ongoing trend in the power sector to build 6



### cleaner plants that take advantage of American

7



### made technologies. The proposal is flexible and 8



### would help minimize carbon pollution through the 9



### deployment of the same types of modern 10



### technologies that power companies are already 11



### using to build the next generation of power 12



### plants. EPA's proposal would ensure that this 13



### progress toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern 14



### power sector continues. 15



### Today we will be accept ing oral comments 16



### on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 17



### prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 18



### transcript will be available as part of the 19



### official record for this rule. We are also 20



### accepting written comments on the proposed rule 21



### until Ju ne 25th. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### At the registration area, which is 1



### located in the hallway outside of this room, 2



### there are handouts with detailed information for 3



### submitting written comments by mail, fax, or 4



### electronically. EPA will consider your comments 5



### as we move forward to c omplete a final rule. 6



### Let me describe the procedures for 7



### today's hearing. I will call the scheduled 8



### speakers to the table in pairs. When it is your 9



### turn to speak, please state your name and your 10



### affiliation before you begin your testimony. It 11



### would hel p our court reporter if you also spell 12



### your name. 13



### To be fair to everyone, please limit your 14



### testimony to five minutes each, and remain at the 15



### table until both speakers in a pair have 16



### finished. After you finish your testimony, 17



### members of the panel may ask clarifying 18



### questions. If, in addition to the transcript of 19



### your testimony, you would also like us to put the 20



### full text of your written comments into the 21



### docket, please be sure to give a copy of any 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### written comments to our staff at the registration 1



### table. 2



### We have a time

- keeping system consisting 3



### of green, yellow, and red lights to help you 4



### track your five minutes to speak. When you begin 5



### speaking, the green light will come on. The 6



### yellow light will signal you have one minute left 7



### to speak. When the red light comes on, five 8



### minutes is past. I will ask you to please 9



### complete your testimony. 10



### Today's hearing is scheduled from 8:30 11



### a.m. until 4:30 p.m. The hearing will go on 12



### recess during the scheduled lunch break from noon 13



### to 1:00 o'clock. We will recon vene promptly at 14



### 1:00 p.m. 15



### If you would like to testify but have not 16



### yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 17



### registration table in the hallway outside of this 18



### room. For those who have already registered to 19



### speak, we have tried to accommodate your request 20



### for specific time slots. We ask for your 21



### patience as we proceed through the list of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### speakers. We may need to make some adjustments 1



### as the day progresses. 2



### If any questions arise throughout the 3



### day, please see a staff member at the 4



### registration table for assistance. Thank you all 5



### again for participating, and let's get started. 6



### Our first two speakers this morning will 7



### be Brian Urbaszewski and Jennifer Cassel. 8



### MS. CASSEL: Good morning, gentlemen. My 9



### name is Jennifer Cassel, and I am a staff 10



### at torney with the Environmental Law and Policy 11



### Center. I am appearing here today on behalf of 12



### the Environmental Law and Policy Cent er to 13



### support the EPA's proposed carbon pollution 14



### standards for new power plants. 15



### These standards represent a critical 16



### milest one. They are the first ever national 17



### carbon pollution standards for power plants, our 18



### nation's largest emitters of carbon dioxide. 19



### These standards will protect public health and 20



### the environment, and they will give the great 21



### wheels of American innovation a big push, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### spurring development of better, cleaner 1



### technologies to spark our economy and power our 2



### country for greater generations to come. 3



### It comes as no surprise that over one 4



### million people have already submitted comments to 5



### EPA in support of these s tandards. With more 6



### than a month left to go in the comment period 7



### surely countless more Americans will make their 8



### voices heard in support of these essential new 9



### standards. 10



### Scientists agree that greenhouse gases, 11



### including carbon dioxide, cause climate ch ange. 12



### And the impacts of climate change are many, 13



### sometimes severe, and are already happening. The 14



### shifts in temperature associated with the change 15



### in climate can change the amount of water vapor 16



### in the atmosphere; and this can lead to major 17



### changes in t he probability for extreme weather. 18



### In 2008, 2010, and 2011, three years out 19



### of four, there were 100 or 500

- year floods in 20



### Iowa, Missouri, and Wisconsin. As the Union of 21



### Concerned Scientists has explained, floods such 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### as those don't only damage property; they can 1



### also contaminate our water with chemicals, animal 2



### waste, and sewage, making people who drink or 3



### swim in that water sick. And they can fill our 4



### basements with

-- our soggy basements with mold, 5



### creating and exacerbating respiratory problems. 6



### As a person that grew up with asthma, that's 7



### particularly relevant to me. 8



### And floods are just one example of 9



### extreme weather events associated with climate 10



### change. Droughts have also been connected to 11



### climate change, and scientific models are 12



### starting to sug gest that disasters like the 2010 13



### Russian heat wave, which resulted in the loss of 14



### 50,000 human lives, and billions of dollars of 15



### wheat crops were likely related to human

- induced 16



### climate change. 17



### These EPA standards will limit the carbon 18



### emissions that lea d to climate change and will 19



### set good things in motion. For example, they 20



### will create jobs. A March 2012 study by the 21



### Department of Labor found that the transition to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### cleaner energy and technology already has created 1



### 3.1 million jobs. As we move from ca rbon

2



### intensive electricity production to increased 3



### production of cleaner, renewable energy, even 4



### more jobs will be created. 5



### These standards will also improve our 6



### nation's security. Further research and 7



### development into cleaner electricity generation 8



### spur red by these standards will help our country 9



### become more energy independent and help our 10



### military minimize the dangerous transport of fuel 11



### in combat zones which has claimed the lives of 12



### many of our troops. 13



### Midwesterners have long recognized the 14



### harmful im pacts of climate change and have begun 15



### implementing a diverse array of measures to keep 16



### these harmful impacts and climate change itself 17



### in check. Chicago Climate Action Plan, the Iowa 18



### Climate Report, and the Wisconsin I nitiative on 19



### C limate C hange I mpacts are just a few of such 20



### programs. These standards will complement and 21



### bolster those critical efforts. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Importantly, EPA is well within its legal 1



### authority in issuing these landmark standards. 2



### As EPA will further discuss in written comments, 3



### EPA's decision to set standards for power plants 4



### based on function rather than fuel type is a 5



### welcome and authorized manner to ensure that new 6



### power plants use the best system to minimize 7



### climate changing carbon emissions. Moreover, the 8



### law is clear that EPA may rely o n reasonable 9



### forecasts of the types of plants that will power 10



### our future, and reasonable forecasts of the types 11



### of technologies available to control pollution 12



### from those plants in setting new source 13



### performance standards. 14



### EPA has done that here. The mark et has 15



### spoken in favor of a lower carbon future. And 16



### EPA's proposed standards mark an important first 17



### step to ensuring that that future becomes 18



### reality. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 21



### MR. URBASZEWSKI: My name is Brian 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Urbaszewski. I'm Director o f Environmental 1



### Health Programs for Respiratory Health 2



### Association of Metropolitan Chicago. We're a 3



### hundred year old plus charity based here in 4



### Chicago that focuses on improving the lives of 5



### people with lung disease, preventing lung 6



### disease, and promoting clean air. So thank you 7



### for the opportunity to comment on the proposed 8



### EPA rule. 9



### Lung disease is a threat to many people 10



### in the country. Millions now live with lung 11



### disease, and the impact of lung disease is 12



### growing. At the end of 2010 the CDC noted t hat 13



### chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD, 14



### moved from the fourth to the third leading cause 15



### of death in America. The five

- year survival rate 16



### for lung cancer is still only a shade over 15 17



### percent. And this month the CDC announced that 18



### the number of people living with asthma increased 19



### by more than 5 million in the previous decade, 20



### and the asthma prevalence rate is at the highest 21



### level ever recorded even as air quality by most 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### measures continues to improve. 1



### We have, with the EPA's help, been making 2



### progress in reducing air pollution, particularly 3



### ground level ozone, smog, and fine particulate 4



### soot . B ut at the same time research over the 5



### years has overwhelmingly shown that air pollution 6



### is more dangerous than we thought previously and 7



### at lower conce ntrations. There is still much 8



### work to be done. The Clean Air Act has driven 9



### the historic progress towards clean air, and that 10



### progress has saved 160,000 lives in 2010 alone 11



### and millions of lives since the act was passed 12



### into law. Yet despite this progr ess, today the 13



### Act is under continual threat in Congress, and 14



### its ability to protect us is under siege. 15



### What we are here to talk about today is 16



### the impact of global warming and the effect it 17



### has on health. Simply put, EPA's charge is to 18



### protect our healt h and welfare. And it's clear 19



### that global warming is a threat to both. We face 20



### the prospect of rising seas, more violent 21



### weather, extreme flooding, and scorching heat 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### waves. This will have a devastating effect on 1



### our economy and on the health of our com munities 2



### in coming decades. Expanding ranges for insects 3



### and rodents will likely mean the spread of 4



### infectious diseases not previously seen in most 5



### American communities, including things like 6



### dengue fever, Lyme disease, and malaria. Higher 7



### temperatures w ill mean more water

- borne diseases 8



### in our rivers and lakes. Heat waves like the one 9



### that killed hundreds of people in Chicago back in 10



### 1995 could, if no action is taken become a twice 11



### yearly occurrence. Some global warming driven 12



### conditions will inordinat ely affect people with 13



### lung disease. Air quality modeling is showing 14



### likely increases in ozone levels in many 15



### locations around the country due to higher heat, 16



### longer season, and changes in the air circulation 17



### patterns. 18



### Likewise, respected studies have sh own 19



### that people living with COPD die at significantly 20



### higher rates than the general public during 21



### periods of extreme heat. Climate change is 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### likely already increasing the production of 1



### ragweed pollen, which not only worsens allergies 2



### for several more week s a year but increases a 3



### known trigger of asthma attacks. 4



### More flooding will also cause an increase 5



### in the number of people exposed to molds that can 6



### cause responses ranging from asthma attacks to 7



### hospitalization to even death. The economic 8



### impacts alo ne of all these global warming driven 9



### health damages should be reason for concern. A 10



### recent Union of Concerned Scientists report 11



### estimates that in 2020 states could pay an 12



### average of $5.4 billion in health related costs 13



### just due to increases in surface

- le vel ozone. 14



### Many medical and public health 15



### organizations, including the American Medical 16



### Association, the American Public Health 17



### Association, and the American Academy of 18



### Pediatrics have expressed support for limits on 19



### the emissions of greenhouse gases beca use of the 20



### health problems that are both driven and made 21



### worse by climate change. Climate change will not 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### only

-- will only accelerate and worsen if we 1



### don't take action to prevent additional 2



### greenhouse gases from new facilities. We're 3



### already seeing cha nges. 4



### In 2011 there were a number of startling 5



### occurrences in northwest Arkansas. In February 6



### the area recorded two feet of snow in one 7



### snowfall. In May that area received 16 inches of 8



### rain in a week. And in August it hit 115 9



### degrees, an all

- time recor d for the state. In 10



### fact, Fort Smith, Arkansas, saw 35 straight days 11



### where it got over 100 degrees last year. 12



### So, why talk about northwest Arkansas and 13



### Chicago? Because that's what the government says 14



### our climate here in Chicago is going to look like 15



### la ter this century. That is what is coming here, 16



### and it will happen in the lifetime of a child 17



### born today. We will see increasingly violent and 18



### dangerous weather that puts our health and the 19



### health of our children and grandchildren at risk 20



### here in Chicago and elsewhere. 21



### EPA needs to finalize this rule to ensure 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### we are not going to make a bad situation worse. 1



### And as the old saying goes, the first thing to do 2



### in trying to get out of a hole is to stop 3



### digging. The agency also needs to accelerate new 4



### source rules to obtain greenhouse gas reductions 5



### from other industrial categories as well, 6



### including oil refineries, chemical, metal, 7



### cement, and other carbon intensive industries. 8



### The EPA also needs to propose rules to 9



### reduce greenhouse gas emissions from exist ing 10



### industrial facilities, including power plants 11



### which will continue to add to the warming threat 12



### for decades more unless action is taken. 13



### While we support the proposals put forth 14



### by the agency, we also urge that EPA move forward 15



### with both tracks immed iately

-- with both 16



### additional tracks immediately, given the grave 17



### threat faced by the country and the future 18



### generations that will inherit it. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you . Do the panel 21



### members have any clarifying questions? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HUTSON: I have a question for Ms. 1



### Cassel. 2



### You mentioned a Department of Labor study 3



### that

-- 4



### MS. CASSEL: Yes. 5



### MR. HUTSON: When was that? 6



### MS. CASSEL: Sure. That was a

-- just 7



### give me one second

-- study from the Bureau of 8



### Labor Statistics. I believe it was release d in 9



### March of this year. 10



### MR. HUTSON: Okay. 11



### MS. CASSEL: I can provide you the

-- 12



### MR. HUTSON: I'm not familiar with that, 13



### so

-- 14



### MS. CASSEL:

-- link to it if you'd like 15



### that. 16



### MR. HUTSON: If you have the site, that 17



### would be helpful. 18



### MS. CASSEL: Sur e, the website. I 19



### certainly do. Do you want me to read that to you 20



### or just

-- it's a kind of a convoluted website. 21



### MR. HUTSON: I think we can find it. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Good. Thank you. 1



### MS. CASSEL: Okay. I'll provide a copy 2



### of my written comments as well, so

-- 3



### MR . HUTSON: Thank you, yeah. 4



### MS. CASSEL: Or my

-- excuse me, my oral 5



### comment. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Nick, anything else? 7



### MR. HUTSON: No. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Rich, any comments? 9



### MR. ANBELBECK: No. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Thank you very much. 11



### MR. URBASZEWSKI: Thank you. 12



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call to testify 13



### Amber Ladeira and Theresa Pugh. And we do have 14



### plenty of seats if people would like to come in 15



### and make themselves comfortable. 16



### MS. LADEIRA: I think Ms. Pugh was ahead 17



### of me because I'm at 8:55, so

-- 18



### MS . PUGH: You're welcome to go ahead of 19



### me. 20



### MS. LADEIRA: Are you sure? 21



### MS. PUGH: Sure. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. KOERBER: You can start. Thank you. 1



### MS. LADEIRA: Good morning. Amber 2



### Ladeira, L

- A

- D
, as in David

, E

- I

- R

- A. 3



### I'm here to support the EPA's standards 4



### to limit carbon pollution from new power plants. 5



### This issue is both personal and public for me. 6



### My daughter, son

- in

- law, and I suffer from 7



### allergies. He is an asthmatic. I vigorously 8



### oppose any weakening of the Clean Air Act which 9



### would result in more widespread adverse health 10



### and economic effects than is usually discussed 11



### and return us to bad old days I remember. 12



### In 1960 Chicago I lived on Belmont Avenue 13



### near Lake Michigan. I had to step over the 14



### little metal conveyors that moved the coal boxes 15



### into the backs of these buildings every weekday 16



### on my way to high school. Skies were often dark 17



### gray, different from an ordinary cloudy day. 18



### Citywide statistics cited by the Chicago Lung 19



### Association and others regarding asthma sufferers 20



### showed higher numbers of negativ e respiratory 21



### health episodes than we see now. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### After the passage of the first Clean Air 1



### Act signed by President Nixon, it became visually 2



### plain in any major urban area that air quality 3



### had improved. Ask any long

- term resident of L.A. 4



### if their previously pervasive brown smog 5



### inversions occurred quite so often after that. 6



### Why has Midwest Generation finally agreed 7



### to close its two coal

- fired plants located right 8



### in Chicago? The residents in Pilsen and near

- in 9



### areas were able to correlate high rates of 10



### inc idents of asthmatic attacks and even deaths to 11



### those plants, and eventually, Chicago City Hall 12



### listened. 13



### These and many other plants have resisted 14



### for whatever reasons retrofitting, installing 15



### electrostatic precipitators, scrubbers, 16



### cogeneration

-- Swed en has done this successfully 17



### for decades

-- and all the other long available 18



### technologies to reduce emissions from their 19



### factories or plants. 20



### If carbon capture is ever proven 21



### practicable or fluidized bed combustion promises 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to clean coal while reducing s ulfur emissions, 1



### I'll be pro coal but not before. 2



### Lest anyone regard such concern as 3



### emanating exclusively from wild

- eyed radicals, 4



### here's a tiny portion of an 1,100

- plus strong 5



### list of organization which oppose any rollbacks 6



### to the Clean Air Act: The Am erican Academy of 7



### Pediatrics, the American Lung Association, 8



### Conference of Mayors, the Episcopal Church, the 9



### Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the 10



### League of Women Voters, the National Association 11



### of County and City Health Officials. 12



### Global warming o r climate change has been 13



### recognized as a serious worldwide current and 14



### future disaster for decades. Pumping more CO 2 15



### into the atmosphere traps more heat, which 16



### doesn't get radiated back into space, an ever

17



### increasing phenomenon since the 1700's industria l 18



### revolution. Just a few degrees higher on a 19



### consistent basis means polar ice melts, which 20



### eventually threatens coastal populations all over 21



### the earth, animal and plant life as well. Think 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Bangladeshi monsoons all the time on every coast. 1



### Since 1970 the EPA has listed the 2



### following as criteria pollutants: ozone, 3



### particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen 4



### oxide, sulfur dioxide, and lead, carbon dioxide 5



### more recently added , now has any list due to the 6



### worldwide eventually irreversible

-- at least by 7



### hu man effects. 8



### Let's all work together to support the 9



### EPA's proposed carbon pollution standard for new 10



### power plants and keep our current clean air 11



### standards in place. Our individual and 12



### collective lives and health are at stake. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 14



### M S. PUGH: Good morning, gentlemen. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Good morning. 16



### MS. PUGH: I'm Theresa Pugh, P

- U

- G

- H, 17



### Director of Environmental Services for the 18



### American Public Power Association. APPA is the 19



### national trade association for 2,000 electric 20



### utilities owned by municipal and local 21



### government, including state government. They are 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### located in 49 states, all but Hawaii; and we 1



### serve about 46 million Americans. Ninety

- five 2



### percent of our member utilities are SBREFA 3



### qualified. One hundred percent are UMBRA 4



### utilit ies, meaning they are not for profit 5



### utilities. 6



### We represent currently 48 percent coal, 7



### 17 percent natural gas, about 8 percent hydro, 6 8



### percent wind backed up by gas, 7 percent nuclear, 9



### and the remaining is mostly oil in offshore 10



### locations like Puerto Ri co, Guam, and American 11



### Samoa. 12



### APPA would like to comment that the 13



### proposed NSPS is unrealistic for the replacement 14



### of retiring coal plants and would require an all 15



### new natural gas standard. Incidentally, the 16



### 1,000 pounds per megawatt hour cannot be met a t 17



### high altitudes, and we're not sure that you might 18



### have realized that. We'll be providing technical 19



### comments on that. So, for example, in the Denver 20



### area even a new combined cycle gas plant, because 21



### of the lack of oxygen, can't meet that standard. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### This concerns us because we're worried 1



### about replacing all retiring coal plants or other 2



### plants with the combined cycle gas. Although we 3



### have 17 percent gas now. Each retirement of a 4



### coal plant would mean that you're replacing it 5



### with natural gas. And one 6 00 megawatt power 6



### plant now with gas is the equivalent of 890,000 7



### homes that already take gas, of course. So the 8



### industrial community and residential users would 9



### see an increase in price. 10



### We expect about a 60 percent increase in 11



### the use of natural gas by the electric utility 12



### industry as these existing coal plants are 13



### replaced with new combined cycle units. And 14



### that's over about a 20 year

-- we're estimating 15



### about a 20

- year period. Obviously, I'm only 16



### discussing new plants. And that's about 14 Tcf 17



### natur al gas. And while we realize there's an 18



### abundance of shale gas in the country right now, 19



### we think that the real issue is infrastructure. 20



### we don't have the adequate infrastructure to 21



### deliver the natural gas, and I'll very lightly

-- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and we'll go into grea t detail in our comments, 1



### but just in the Midwest , for example, you would 2



### have to build the new infrastructure and existing 3



### -- in addition to the existing miles of pipeline. 4



### And it's a 20 percent increase nationally, and 5



### that will cost about $8 billion. 6



### And just to hit on the mid western 7



### states, you'd need 126 percent increase in 8



### Illinois, 116 percent increase Kentucky. All of 9



### these are increases. Michigan, 119; Wisconsin, 10



### 109; Indiana, 120; Kansas, 118; Missouri, 104. 11



### All of the states, except New Me xico, Oklahoma, 12



### Texas, and I believe Mississippi do require an 13



### increase in builds of new pipeline capacity. In 14



### fact, 21 states would need to build subsurface 15



### storage in addition. 16



### So, I'm sure you know that you can't have 17



### natural gas pipelines to actually pack enough gas 18



### in the pipes for a power plant so that you can 19



### have reliability within 10 or 15 minutes. So, 20



### storage is an absolute necessity to build. 21



### Ironically, a lot of the existing storage 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### capacity in the U.S.

-- especially in the Midwest 1



### -- is cur rently aquifer capacity. So, you all 2



### will have to be seeing state agencies making very 3



### difficult decisions on do you store natural gas 4



### in an aquifer, or do you store water in an 5



### aquifer. These are tough choices ahead. 6



### Storage is short in Missouri, Illin ois, 7



### Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona where actually an 8



### aquifer for natural gas storage was declined four 9



### years ago by the state. Idaho

-- all of the 10



### southeastern states and all of the northeastern 11



### states. Of course, there's abundant natural gas 12



### storage capa city in the salt domes in Texas and 13



### part of Mississippi, and I believe Louisiana. 14



### CCS. CCS is not a demonstrated 15



### technology, not even remotely. In fact, there 16



### are some very significant legal questions that I 17



### would respectfully offer EPA ignored in the 18



### i njection of an acid gas in the subsurface. And 19



### there are many statutes that the EPA did not 20



### address that don't

-- do not affect the oil and 21



### gas industry's use of injection of CO 2 

### into 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### subsurface for oil and gas recovery but, in fact, 1



### would affect power pl ants. These include RCRA, 2



### CERCLA , and all of the state drinking water laws. 3



### It is not yet clear that it is purely legal for a 4



### power plant to inject an acid gas into the 5



### subsurface under safe drinking water act 6



### equivalents in the state laws. 7



### So, the CCS l aws

-- CCS concept is 8



### promising but not a promise. And the costs are 9



### completely unknown to us. We have absolutely no 10



### notion. So we also have no idea how you get 11



### financing. 12



### Thank you very much. We will be 13



### submitting very detailed comments about on the 14



### 25th. And thank you for the opportunity to speak 15



### and for the time extension for submitting 16



### comments. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18



### Before you both leave, any clarifying 19



### questions? 20



### MR. HUTSON: I don't. 21



### MR. KOERBER: Rich, any clarifying 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### questions? 1



### MR. ANG ELBECK: No. 2



### MR. KOERBER: No? Thank you very much. 3



### MS. LADEIRA: One thing I neglected to 4



### say, I'm a member of the Union of Concerned 5



### Scientists, but I am a non

- scientist. You asked 6



### for the affiliation, and I forgot to give it. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. T hank you for

-- 8



### MS. LADEIRA: Sorry. 9



### MR. KOERBER:

-- clarifying that. Thank 10



### you. 11



### Next I'd like to call Blake Lenoir and 12



### Grant Smith. Go ahead. 13



### MR. LENOIR: Throughout the country and 14



### the entire world

-- 15



### MR. KOERBER: Can you give your name and 16



### affi liation, please? 17



### MR. LENOIR: I'm Blake Lenoir, member of 18



### the Sierra Club and Greenpeace. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### MR. LENOIR: Throughout the country and 21



### the entire world many households, families, and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### children are looking for relief from respiratory 1



### i llnesses from carbon pollution. Having a stand 2



### for carbon emissions helps public health and 3



### combats climate change to keep the planet at its 4



### regular state. These carbon pollution standards 5



### are an instrumental tool to guide our world 6



### toward a golden age w here a new renewable and 7



### cleaner world is possible. These standards will 8



### help move our industries in the right direction, 9



### towards a revolution of sustainability and 10



### affordable energy. 11



### Regardless of income or need, every 12



### family, business, and other instit ution has a 13



### right to breathe clean air. 14



### These standards will also vanquish toxic 15



### pollutants such as smoot, smog, and other forms 16



### of air pollution. This air pollution hurts the 17



### elderly and families, especially children. 18



### Children are extremely vulnerable to respi ratory 19



### illness. These standards will help us realize a 20



### new era. 21



### The Calumet Region is where I live. It's 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### an iconic landmark that not only excels in its 1



### legendary steel mills and refineries but harbors 2



### an ark of native flora and fauna that's only 3



### found in southeast Chicago, south suburbs, and 4



### into northwest Indiana. 5



### One of the corporate polluters is making 6



### inroads on Chicago's southeast side

. L eu cadia is 7



### a proposed coal gasification plant on 119 Street 8



### and South Avenue O where the old Republic S teel 9



### mill used to be. If Leucadia proceeds without 10



### the GYFO [phonetic] standards like this one, the 11



### once proud flora and fauna will face its demise. 12



### Let's take a collective stand against the 13



### business elites and their allies who want to 14



### pollute for their benefit and pleasure today. 15



### Thank you very much. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 17



### MR. LENOIR: Any questions? 18



### [No response.] 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Mr. Smith? 20



### MR. SMITH: My name is Grant Smith. I 21



### represent the Civil Society Institute. Thank you 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### for hav ing the hearing today. 1



### First of all, EPA is doing the right 2



### thing. It is critical that you and the 3



### administration do not succumb to the sea of cash 4



### that the coal industry is going to put into the 5



### effort to derail these regulations. The politics 6



### are very tough, but the consequences of not 7



### acting are grave. This is a critical point in 8



### history. We have a choice between utter human 9



### tragedy and the prospects or at least the hope of 10



### a more positive future. 11



### The heyday of coal is over in this 12



### country. We all know that. The load of campaign 13



### contributions in Congress is inhibiting a 14



### sustainable energy revolution in the U.S., but 15



### the economics are clear. Wind, solar, and 16



### efficiency continue to drop in cost while the 17



### cost of coal

- fired power increase. 18



### Indeed, a study commissioned by the Civil 19



### Society Institute beyond business as usual 20



### demonstrates that it's cheaper to phase out coal 21



### than to sustain or expand it. Clean coal cannot 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### exist. The fuel cycle is devastating the human 1



### health, the global climate, and e cosystems in 2



### general, and releases CO 2 

### or methane at every 3



### stage. 4



### Mount aintop r emoval in West Virginia is a 5



### prime example. I bring this up because one of 6



### the most important carbon sinks in the world, the 7



### Appalachian Forest is being systematically 8



### anni hi l ated. People are dying of a variety of 9



### diseases from the so

- called mining method. And 10



### MTR is only one aspect of the fuel cycle that is 11



### killing and impairing tens of thousands of 12



### Americans each year, hardly a patriotic pursuit 13



### as spun by the industry. 14



### We require public policies that create a 15



### sustainable economy, not those that enable 16



### continued speculation and destruction of our 17



### natural resources and the public

-- and public 18



### health, but the coal and utility industries 19



### expect U.S. taxpayers or rate payers t o pick up 20



### the tab. They expect carbon capture enhanced oil 21



### recovery sequestration seems to have been 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### abandoned by them, and pipeline construction to 1



### be fully subsidized and taxpayers to assume 2



### liability for pipeline failures. They expect 3



### rate payers to p ick up costs of their power plant 4



### experiments before they are even built. They 5



### expect to be able to freely contaminate water 6



### supplies with questionable mining and waste 7



### disposal practices. 8



### The idea is to shift financial 9



### environmental and liability risks to the taxpayer 10



### and rate payer to allow for continued speculation 11



### and power plant construction, carbon capture, and 12



### exploitation of coal resources. Indeed, coal

13



### fired power can only survive wholly on the backs 14



### of taxpayers and rate payers. 15



### The coal indus try is far too expensive to 16



### maintain. By some accounts externality costs 17



### range into the hundreds of billions of dollars 18



### each year despite decades of environmental 19



### protection laws. The pollution control system 20



### simply cannot handle the vast quantities of 21



### w aste, emissions, and discharges from the coal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### fuel cycle. And those costs are severe. 1



### Attempting to save the industry through 2



### carbon capture and enhanced oil recovery or 3



### sequestration only serves to divert billions of 4



### dollars from efficiency and renewabl es. 5



### Let the Chinese pay for developing carbon 6



### capture technology. They can snap their fingers 7



### and move a million people if they want. They 8



### clearly have the ability to move on carbon 9



### capture if they wish. 10



### We have better things to do. We can 11



### systematica lly invest in the sustainable electric 12



### grid and eventually maintain reliability without 13



### base load power. Clamping down on CO 2 

### emissions 14



### will go a long way to enabling that to happen. 15



### Coal

- fired power is already obsolete in terms of 16



### efficiency, renewables , and grid operational 17



### advances. It will just take us time to replace 18



### it. We can systematically phase it out with what 19



### we have available to us now. Throwing good money 20



### after bad with the coal industry is a total waste 21



### of time and effort. We should seri ously start 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### shifting investment to true clean technologies 1



### with the adoption and enforcement of the proposed 2



### regulations. 3



### As for jobs

-- because that's the mantra 4



### of the industry

-- not all jobs are created 5



### equal. We should put a premium on sustainable 6



### e fficiency renewable storage and distributed 7



### power jobs and work to assist those in non

8



### sustainable industries like coal, natural gas 9



### fracking, and nuclear to move to clean tech over 10



### time. 11



### Also, the perception is that regional 12



### differences prohibit a nation al move to a 13



### sustainable grid. That simply is not the case. 14



### Efficiency measures are available on any region 15



### as are renewable storage and distributed power 16



### opportunities. Moreover, the grid is 17



### interconnected, and balancing areas for purposes 18



### of maintaini ng reliability cover multiple 19



### regions. 20



### But I understand the politics are 21



### difficult. One Iowa Congressman working to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### extend the production tax credit know that there 1



### is a war on renewables being waged in D.C. 2



### Others are working to throttle funding for DO D 3



### renewable and efficiency investments. The fossil 4



### fuel and nuclear industries appear to be working 5



### to eliminate all alternatives but their own. Of 6



### course these regulations should be broader and 7



### apply to existing power plants. And then we know 8



### that this is only a piece of the puzzle. 9



### Fracking and our transportation system 10



### contributes substantially to global warming, for 11



### instance, and must be aggressively addressed. 12



### But please stay the course and adopt these 13



### regulations. This is a first step in the rig ht 14



### direction. 15



### That concludes my comments. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 17



### Do the panel have any clarifying 18



### questions? Nick? 19



### MR. HUTSON: Yes. You mentioned a report 20



### -- 21



### MR. SMITH: Yes. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HUTSON:

-- Beyond Business as Usual? 1



### MR. SMITH: Yes, I have it r ight here if 2



### you'd like it. 3



### MR. HUTSON: Is it available on your 4



### website? 5



### MR. SMITH: Oh, yes, you can go to the 6



### Civil Society website. 7



### MR. HUTSON: Are you going to submit 8



### that? 9



### MR. SMITH: Yes, I am. 10



### MR. HUTSON: Okay. 11



### MR. KOERBER: You can leave t hat with the 12



### people at the registration table. 13



### MR. SMITH: All right. I will do that. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Any questions, Rich? 15



### MR. ANGELBECK: No. 16



### MR. KOERBER: No? Okay. Thank you very 17



### much. 18



### MR. SMITH: Thank you. 19



### MR. LENOIR: Any of you gentlemen have 20



### any

-- any questions to ask me? 21



### MR. KOERBER: No, we're good. Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Thank you, sir. Thanks for coming. Appreciate 1



### your time today. 2



### I'd like to call John Menzer

-- excuse 3



### me, Dave Menzer and John McCauley. 4



### MR. MENZER: Good morning. Members of 5



### the committee, I want to thank you for this 6



### opportunity to speak today. My name is Dave 7



### Menzer, M

- E

- N

- Z

- E

- R. And I am here representing 8



### myself as a private citizen. I'm also a small 9



### business owner, an organic farmer. I have four 10



### rental properties. I'm also a taxpayer and a 11



### utility rate payer. 12



### On my way up here today from Indianapolis 13



### -- we got up and going about 5:00 a.m., so I 14



### would encourage this body to hold more hearings 15



### around the country

-- but we saw a beautiful 16



### thing headed up here, and that w as the wind farms 17



### in northwest Indiana. Must have been at least a 18



### thousand wind turbines coming up here. Those 19



### wind turbines, no carbon emissions to speak of 20



### other than their manufacture. Those wind 21



### turbines, as I understand it, are now coming in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### at abo ut 9 cents a kilowatt hour. 1



### By contrast, in Indiana we have what's

-- 2



### quote, unquote

-- called a clean coal 3



### gasification plant being built by Duke Energy in 4



### Edwardsport. That plant is now exceeding $3 5



### billion in cost and will come in in excess of 21 6



### cent s a kilowatt hour. 7



### And one of the main reasons I wanted to 8



### come speak here today was to contest the fact 9



### that carbon regulations are going to be too 10



### costly. I'm here to support the EPA's effort 11



### here. I would argue that we can't afford not to 12



### regulate ca rbon. 13



### The Duke

-- quote, unquote

-- clean coal 14



### plant as it was originally foisted in Indiana 15



### does not intend to capture carbon and sequester 16



### it. In fact, they realized at some point in the 17



### construction that with our parse topography you 18



### can't put carbon in the ground. And instead, as 19



### mentioned by others, they want to send it to 20



### Texas, Louisiana to extract more hydrocarbons and 21



### produce more CO 2 

### . So I would contest there is no 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### such thing as clean coal. 1



### There is also no such thing as carbon 2



### capture and sequestration at this point. We can 3



### capture it. We can put it in the ground, but at 4



### some point it's going to come back out. We have 5



### not

-- it's a science project still. 6



### And while I think that research is 7



### important, the best way to deal with carbon is t o 8



### eliminate it. And that means phasing out coal

9



### fired power plants and transitioning to some of 10



### the clean energy that , again, I love to see 11



### coming up here. 12



### I mentioned that I'm a small business 13



### owner, organic farmer. When I bought these 14



### properties seven years ago, about 2005, it was 15



### late that summer after I had purchased the first 16



### -- had a greenhouse on it that had been there for 17



### 50 some years, probably longer. We experienced a 18



### hail storm in Indianapolis. It lasted for 45 19



### minutes, and it rained hail on the north side in 20



### the size of 1 to 2

- inch size hailstones. Now, 21



### I'm a big believer in insurance

-- and I'll tell 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### you why

-- because I got three roofs out of it, 1



### two cars replaced, and my greenhouse; but the 2



### damage was very significant. Those costs for th at 3



### kind of extreme weather are in my insurance 4



### rates. I guaranty you. 5



### I also mentioned my organic farm. It 6



### sits in a floodplain, a 100

- year floodplain or so 7



### I was told by the Realtor. That floodplain in 8



### the past seven years has flooded six times. So I 9



### would think of it more as an annual floodplain 10



### now. And I also pay flood insurance, so again, a 11



### big believer in insurance now. 12



### As far as all of this is being reflected 13



### in our insurance rates. It's being reflected in 14



### our property taxes. It's reflected in our 15



### federal taxes when we have to pay for disaster 16



### relief like Hurricane Katrina, or Henryville, 17



### Indiana, or some other place. 18



### I believe it was two years ago that 92 or 19



### 82 of Indiana's 92 counties were declared a 20



### disaster zone at some point because of extreme 21



### weather. So, this is clearly happening. It's 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### happening now. 1



### I also have mentioned my organic farm. 2



### This winter we had no winter, so my small orchard 3



### began blossoming at the beginning of March. That 4



### orchard was

-- or those trees were laden with 5



### fruit by the end of March, early April. And then 6



### we actually saw a little bit of spring return 7



### from summer and winter. And that spring had a 8



### cold snap and has essentially destroyed that 9



### fruit crop. So I would argue that the costs or 10



### lack of regulation to date for carbon is costing 11



### us also in our food prices. 12



### And I see that my time is concluding. So 13



### I just want to emphasize that the costs of not 14



### regulating carbon are measurable. We are seeing 15



### it, and I would argue they far exceed what we're 16



### going to s ee in terms of increases in utility 17



### rates. I would also argue that the impacts on 18



### public health, as the gentleman here and others 19



### have indicated, along with the long

- term impacts 20



### on our planet are immeasurable. 21



### And so, with that, I'll conclude it. I 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### tha nk the committee again for the opportunity to 1



### testify. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 3



### MR. McCAULEY: My name is John McCauley. 4



### I'm here on behalf of Operation Free. And 5



### Operation Free is a coalition of veterans and 6



### national security organizations dedicat ed to 7



### securing America with clean energy. And I'll try 8



### to keep this short and sweet. 9



### Operation Free fully supports the 10



### implementation of the proposed carbon fuel 11



### standard, carbon pollution standard, excuse me. 12



### The Department of Defense, State Department , and 13



### the CIA all officially recognize climate change 14



### as a threat to America's security. 15



### Here, at home, the disruption of our 16



### climate jeopardizes our cities and threatens our 17



### coastal defense facilities. Around the world the 18



### changing climate causes wide spread economic harm 19



### and allows anti

- American organizations to take 20



### advantage of the despair and instability that 21



### results, gaining foothold to our local 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### governments are too weakened to dispel them. 1



### For the sake of keeping America safe and 2



### making the world a more stable place, it is 3



### critical that the U.S. take steps to limit our 4



### carbon emissions. It is in our national security 5



### interest to ensure that we fight the root causes 6



### of climate change, which is why Operation Free 7



### applauds the EPA's efforts to reduc e the carbon 8



### emissions of America's electricity generation. 9



### Thanks, guys. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Any of the 11



### panel have any clarifying questions? 12



### MR. HUTSON: I just missed when you 13



### started when you were talking about Operation 14



### Free and its mission. Can you

-- 15



### MR. McCAULEY: Yes, sure. So, we're a 16



### coalition of veterans across the country and of 17



### national security organizations. And we're 18



### dedicated to securing America with clean energy. 19



### MR. HUTSON: Okay. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Rich, any 21



### questio ns? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. ANGELBEDK: No. 1



### MR. KOERBER: No? Okay. Thank you both 2



### very much. 3



### MR. MENZER: Thanks a lot. 4



### MR. KOERBER: I'd now like to call Steve 5



### Frenkel and Dr. Theodore Steck

. 6



### Is Dr. Steck present? 7



### [No response.] 8



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Good morning, S teve. 9



### MR. FRENKEL: Hi, Mike. Good to see you. 10



### Should I begin? 11



### MR. KOERBER: Yes, let's begin. 12



### MR. FRENKEL: Good morning. My name is 13



### Steve Frenkel. Thank you for the opportunity to 14



### testify. As part of the pollution

-- recovering 15



### -- carbon standard, I am the Director of the 16



### Union of Concerned Scientists, Midwest Office, 17



### based here in Chicago. The Union of Concerned 18



### Scientists is the nation's leading science

- based 19



### non

- profit working for a healthy environment

-- 20



### and I say for world. So on behalf of U CS's more 21



### than 350,000 supporters and more than 18,000 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### scientists, we strongly support EPA's efforts to 1



### regulate carbon emissions from coal and oil fired 2



### power plants under the Clean Air Act. 3



### UCS works on advancing awareness of both 4



### the science of climate change and solutions to 5



### help lower emissions and mitigate the wo rst 6



### impacts of climate change. 7



### First of all, I'd like to strongly 8



### reaffirm that EPA's actions to regulate carbon 9



### pollution are firmly grounded in sound science. 10



### The threat posed by uncheck ed climate change has 11



### been clearly articulated by numerous national, 12



### international scientific organizations, including 13



### the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. 14



### If we fail to make deep reductions in our 15



### greenhouse gas emissions, we'll greatly increase 16



### the ri sk of serious economic public health and 17



### environmental consequences. 18



### In 1995 Chicago became ground zero for 19



### climate change; although, we really didn't think 20



### about it that way at that time. That summer the 21



### city experienced an extreme heat emergency that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### k illed 739 Chicagoans. I was a journalist then, 1



### and I covered that dramatic story. It was one of 2



### the city's greatest tragedies and among the first 3



### signs that something with the climate was going 4



### wrong. 5



### Yet despite these signs, nothing was done 6



### to curb gr eenhouse gases in the United States. A 7



### few years later in 2000 I was a graduate student, 8



### and I studied the various ways policymakers could 9



### limit the harm to the environment and society 10



### from carbon pollution. 11



### That year presidential candidate George 12



### Bush p romised to work with Congress, 13



### environmental groups, and industry to require 14



### carbon emission reductions from power plants 15



### within what he called a reasonable period of 16



### time, but still, nothing was done. 17



### Later I worked in the state government to 18



### help advanc e climate solutions and helped develop 19



### a plan to limit carbon pollution across the 20



### Midwest

, and despite our best efforts the plan 21



### stalled and nothing was done. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### And just two years ago legislation that 1



### comprehensively addressed climate change failed 2



### in Cong ress despite the efforts of UCS and many 3



### other advocates, and nothing was done. 4



### But here we are today, nearly 20 years 5



### later. We're here because finally something has 6



### been done. And with this historic first ever 7



### national pollution standard for power pla nts, you 8



### and your colleagues have accomplished what so 9



### many have waited for for so long. So, on behalf 10



### of UCS and all of our members and supporters I 11



### thank you. 12



### EPA's authority to regulate greenhouse 13



### gases was affirmed by the Supreme Court in 2007 14



### and ag ain by the Agency's finding in 2009 that 15



### greenhouse gases threatened American's health and 16



### welfare by leading to long

- lasting changes in our 17



### climate. 18



### Fossil fuel power plants are the nation's 19



### largest source of carbon emissions. And that's 20



### why curbing car bon pollution from this sector is 21



### so crucial to our efforts to fight climate 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### change. And with this proposed standard for your 1



### power plants, you're taking the first big step. 2



### USC believes that EPA's proposed rule 3



### sets achievable output

- based standards th at 4



### appropriately apply uniformly to all fossil 5



### fueled power plants. This will spur continued 6



### innovation in clean energy technologies and will 7



### drive new investment to clean energy and create 8



### jobs. 9



### USC has a few suggestions that we think 10



### would strengthen t he standard. We ask that EPA 11



### consider adopting a slightly stronger standard by 12



### considering a lower emissions limit of 800 pounds 13



### of CO 2 

### per megawatt hour, which is an emissions 14



### level that combined cycle natural gas plants can 15



### readily achieve notwithstandi ng the concerns 16



### about altitude raised earlier, which I cannot 17



### speak to. 18



### I do want to respond to the earlier 19



### comments about the dangers of overly relying on 20



### natural gas and the cost of expanding the natural 21



### gas infrastructure. UCS has estimated that more 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### than twice the number of announced coal 1



### retirements could be retired without compromising 2



### reliability, safety, and affordability of the 3



### power grid simply by increasing the capacity 4



### factors of the existing natural gas fleet as well 5



### as meeting existing renew able energy and energy 6



### efficiency standards already on the books in 29 7



### states. So, not every coal plant that retires 8



### must be replaced. 9



### While we recognize the potentially 10



### significant role carbon capturing storage can 11



### play in our energy future, UCS has som e concerns 12



### about the 30

- year averaging alternative 13



### compliance mechanism proposed by the agency. 14



### As EPA has noted, there are virtually no 15



### plans to build new coal

- fired power plants under 16



### current market conditions. The Energy 17



### Information Agency's most rece nt projections from 18



### 2012 show that low natural gas prices combined 19



### with mounting production and pollution control 20



### costs are making coal

- fired power plants 21



### increasingly uneconomic. The carbon standards 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### for new plants simply underscore a reality is 1



### already underway. 2



### Of course, reducing emissions from the 3



### power sector requires that we also set standards 4



### for the existing fleet of coal plants. We 5



### encourage EPA's efforts to engage with and 6



### consult with states and appropriate stakeholders 7



### to ensure that standar ds for the existing fleet 8



### are well coordinated with state actions to reduce 9



### carbon emissions. 10



### The work that EPA has begun to reduce 11



### global warming emissions is a crucial and 12



### important step to protecting public health and 13



### the well

- being of Americans. We r equest that you 14



### move quickly to finalize these carbon standards 15



### for new power plants, and we urge you to issue 16



### strong carbon standards for existing power plants 17



### without delay. 18



### Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Any clarifying questio ns? 20



### MR. HUTSON: Not a question actually, 21



### just a comment. You mentioned that the Union of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Concerned Scientists was

-- would be encouraging 1



### a stronger standard of 800 pounds of carbon 2



### dioxide per megawatt? 3



### MR. FRENKEL: Yes. 4



### MR. HUTSON: I hope that you 'll be 5



### submitting comments. 6



### MR. FRENKEL: We will be. 7



### MR. HUTSON: And we always encourage when 8



### people submit comments to provide technical 9



### evidence or back

- up for

-- 10



### MR. FRENKEL: Sure 11



### MR. HUTSON:

-- that. Yes, so I would 12



### strongly encourage you do. 13



### MR. FRENKEL: We'll do so. 14



### MR. HUTSON: Yes. 15



### MR. FRENKEL: Thank you for the time. 16



### Appreciate it. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Let me ask the audience. 18



### Can you hear the questions and the responses that 19



### are being given clearly? I know we don't have a 20



### microphone in this room. I just want to make 21



### sure everybody could hear everything. Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. FRENKEL: Thank you. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Oh, I'm sorry. 2



### MR. ANGELBECK: Yes, sir. 3



### MR. KOERBER: One more question, Steve. 4



### MR. ANGELBECK: You mentioned you had 5



### some sugges tions, and you mentioned lowering the 6



### CO 2 

### to 800 pounds per megawatt hour? 7



### MR. FRENKEL: Yes. 8



### MR. ANGELBECK: What were the other ones? 9



### I mean, that might have gotten lost. 10



### MR. FRENKEL: Right. 11



### MR. ANGELBECK: It seemed like you

-- 12



### MR. FRENKEL: And w e do have some other 13



### detailed concerns around some of the assumptions 14



### around the CCS alternative compliance 15



### methodology. And so around costs and around 16



### feasibility as

-- and related to the emissions 17



### impacts of allowing that averaging over 30 years. 18



### So we' ll be additionally supplying some comments 19



### regarding that issue. 20



### MR. ANGELBECK: Okay. Thank you. 21



### MR. KOERBER: Has Dr. Theodore Steck 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### joined us? 1



### [No response.] 2



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We'll move on to our 3



### next two speakers, Joseph Kowalis

-- excuse me 4



### f or any mispronunciation

-- and David Shaffer. 5



### [Pause.] 6



### MR. KOERBER: Is David Shaffer in the 7



### room? 8



### [No response.] 9



### MR. KOERBER: Joseph? 10



### MR. KOWALIS: Thank you for your time 11



### today. I appreciate the opportunity to testify. 12



### I sit before you today as a senior in my studies 13



### at Western Michigan University in American Public 14



### Law and Environmental Studies. I'm here today 15



### following the obvious signs of climate disruption 16



### happening. 17



### 2011 was the ninth warmest year on record 18



### across the globe, according to NAS A's own 19



### scientists. And they've been warning for decades 20



### that emissions from carbon is linked to global 21



### climate disruption. And scientists like Bill 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### McKibben and James Hansen of NASA, along with 1



### thousands of others like you just heard from the 2



### Union of C oncerned Scientists

-- the impacts 3



### we're already seeing in species lost, migration, 4



### temperature, and NASA continues to find that ice 5



### caps are melting faster, and the effects become 6



### more and more irreversible every year. 7



### That's is what happens when we leav e it 8



### up to the industry to police themselves on these 9



### standards. Over 72 percent of American voters in 10



### an American Lung Association conducted poll 11



### support protections from carbon emissions like 12



### this one the EPA is proposing. My generation 13



### stands before o ur government to implore and 14



### demand that they lead our nation into the 21st 15



### century on these issues, protecting the health of 16



### our citizens and the planet. 17



### We have had the science for decades. The 18



### time for debate has passed, and action must be 19



### taken now. Let's use this opportunity to add to 20



### the 3.1 million already existing clean energy 21



### transition jobs. An independent analysis showing 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### these carbon emission standards will not require 1



### rate hikes or kill jobs. It will do the exact 2



### opposite. I want my count ry to lead in the 21st 3



### century, not follow China like we currently are 4



### in carbon emissions standards. Let's move 5



### America forward into a clean and just energy 6



### future. 7



### Thank you for your time. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Any clarifying 9



### questions? 10



### MR. HUTSO N: No. 11



### MR. KOERBER: No? Thank you. 12



### Let me call again Dr. Theodore Steck or 13



### David Shaffer. 14



### [No response.] 15



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We will move on to 16



### Boise Jones and Eula McNeill. 17



### [Pause.] 18



### MR. KOERBER: When you're ready. 19



### MR. JONES: Okay. 20



### MR. KOERB ER: Thank you. 21



### MR. JONES: Good morning. My name is 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Boise Jones. I'm trained as a geographer and 1



### urban planner and a renewable energy specialist. 2



### Today I'm here with the Minnesota Delegation 3



### representing Greenwater Energy, which is my 4



### consulting firm, the Northstar Chapter of the 5



### Sierra Club, and the Environmental Justice 6



### Community in the Twin Cities. 7



### For seven years I served as Vice

- Chair of 8



### Environmental Justice Advocates of Minnesota, 9



### advocating for health disparities in communities 10



### of color as well as appointed to the Minnesota 11



### Climate Change Advisory Group serving the Energy 12



### Supply and Transportation Committee. 13



### This is the backdrop of which I'd like to 14



### state for the record my testimony. First, we 15



### would like to commend the EPA and Director Lisa 16



### Ja ckson and her staff for her leadership on 17



### protection of our air, water, and soil

-- in 18



### other words, for doing her job. 19



### When I first testified here before this 20



### August body, it was on mercury, and it was during 21



### the Bush administration, and I will state 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### anec dotally the difference between the EPA then 1



### and now is markedly different. The evidence of 2



### proposing new source performance standards for 3



### emissions of carbon dioxide, for new effective 4



### fossil fuel fire electric utility generating 5



### plants clearly reflect th e mandates of the EPA. 6



### Moreover, the EPA's new proposed carbon 7



### pollution limits reflect the depth and breadth of 8



### the directives from both the Supreme Court and 9



### Congress in 2007 where the Court confirmed in its 10



### landmark decision, Massachusetts vs. EPA, the 11



### courts held in that case that the Clean Air Act 12



### requires the EPA to protect our public health and 13



### welfare from air pollutants such as carbon 14



### pollution from power plants that cause climate 15



### change. 16



### And in the 2011 decision the court 17



### restated that emissions of carbon dioxide qualify 18



### as pollution subject to regulations under the 19



### Act, and the Act speaks directly to emissions of 20



### carbon dioxide from power plants. 21



### As the record reflects, the courts went 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### on to describe the process for issuing 1



### performance standard s governing these delegated

- 2



### - to the EPA the decision whether and how to 3



### regulate carbon dioxide emissions for power 4



### plants. So, with EPA proposing these 5



### requirements because CO 2 

### greenhouse gases and 6



### fossil fuel power plants are the country's 7



### largest sta tionary sources of emitters of GHG s. 8



### The EPA in 2009 found that by causing or 9



### contributing to climate change GHGs endangered 10



### the public health and the public welfare of 11



### current and future generations. So, we agree 12



### that uncontrolled industrial carbon poll ution 13



### from power plants is definitely harming our 14



### health. And, of course, the EPA reveals that 154 15



### million Americans already suffer from pollution 16



### levels that are too dangerous and that scientists 17



### warn that climate change caused by carbon 18



### pollution is cre ating conditions, including 19



### warmer temperatures, which increase the risk of 20



### unhealthful ozone levels for the air we breathe. 21



### So, as a result, I'm here today talking 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### on behalf of my 19

- year

- old son who suffers from 1



### asthma as well as my mother who turned 73 today 2



### that the work that they're doing and that 3



### Director Jackson is doing at the EPA is basically 4



### doing her job; and we commend her. 5



### Thank you. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 7



### MS. McNEILL: Good morning. Thank you 8



### for this opportunity. I am Eula C. McNeill, 9



### Commissioner from the Town of Red Springs and 10



### Rob e son County. I've traveled from North 11



### Carolina to Chicago, Illinois, for this meeting 12



### today to express some of the concerns that the 13



### citizens of Red Springs have and as well as the 14



### citizens of Robeson Coun ty. 15



### We are appreciative of what is being done 16



### by EPA, but we're also very concerned about the 17



### economical jobs, energy prices that it is

-- the 18



### new proposer is going to impact on the citizens 19



### of Red Springs as well as Robeson County. 20



### The rules target coal fuel power plants. 21



### And that is important because coal is very 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### inexpensive. More than half of the electricity 1



### in North Carolina comes from coal. Comparatively 2



### speaking, the cost of electricity is relatively 3



### low; but the citizens are already struggling to 4



### acquire basic needs for survival. 5



### It is unthinkable about what may happen 6



### when additional financial burdens may be imposed 7



### upon us by the new proposed changes. 8



### Utmost, coal fuel plants are most 9



### economical, as I've previously stated, for my 10



### citizens beca use now we're having to making 11



### decisions about whether or not to go into 12



### darkness, or stay in the cold, or do I buy my 13



### necessary medicine and other necessities that we 14



### must have to survive. 15



### The proposed NSPS rule requires a 16



### technology that is yet still un der study and for 17



### use on new coal plants. 18



### And I'd like to inject here, too, what 19



### would happen to the old plants? Will old plants 20



### still have an opportunity to upgrade, or will we 21



### be completely banned from an existence? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EPA should not design policies to prevent 1



### the construction of new coal plants. Policies 2



### designed for that purpose could cause unnecessary 3



### impacts, including, as previously stated, higher 4



### electrical bills, higher natural gas prices, job 5



### losses, and potential electrical reliability 6



### problem s. 7



### Surely, I support clean air, but EPA 8



### needs to fix this proposed rule so that it is 9



### less expensive and does not cost jobs or cause 10



### other financial hardship upon my citizens. I'll 11



### go as far to say that it should be that the new 12



### regulation

-- proposed re gulation should be 13



### withdrawn until it is further studied and makes 14



### more sense to all and not put people on edge of 15



### how we are going to survive in coal

- supported 16



### communities. 17



### In saying that, I say that, as someone 18



### previously said, and I liked that statemen t, the 19



### CO 2 

### is promising, but it isn't a promise. 20



### And I thank you for this opportunity. 21



### And we will submit this testimony in writing 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### along with supportive facts that I did have my 1



### town to pull up, and we will submit all of that 2



### to you. And we're glad to meet another North 3



### Carolinian from here. 4



### MR. HUTSON: Nice to meet you, too. 5



### Thank you. 6



### MS. McNEILL: Thank you. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Any clarifying questions? 8



### MR. HUTSON: I'm just curious as to where 9



### Red Springs is located in North Carolina. 10



### MS. McNEILL: It is located right down 11



### below Fort Bragg, or we are about 18 miles south 12



### of

-- no, west of Lumberton. 13



### MR. HUTSON: Yes, okay. Red Springs and 14



### red soil also. 15



### MS. McNEILL: Yes. 16



### MR. HUTSON: Thank you. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Any clarifying questions? 18



### MR. ANG ELBECK: No. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### MS. McNEILL: Thank you. 21



### MR. KOERBER: Let me as if Dr. Theodore 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Steck or David Shaffer are present. 1



### [No response.] 2



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Richard 3



### Stuckey and Jane J esuit. 4



### [Pause.] 5



### MR. KOERBER: Ready? 6



### MR. STUCKEY: Yes. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Go ahead. 8



### MR. STUCKEY: Good morning, and thank you 9



### for this opportunity to testify on the proposed 10



### New Source Pollution Standards. 11



### My name is Richard Stuckey. That's S

- T

12



### U

- C

- K

- E

- Y, a member of the Sierra Club and 13



### vario us other environmental organizations. I'm 14



### testifying on behalf of myself and my family. 15



### First of all, strongly commend the EPA 16



### for its work in creating national standards for 17



### the control of pollution of all sorts, in 18



### particular, the proposed standards fo r control of 19



### carbon pollution from new power plants, an 20



### important step towards slowing down climate 21



### change, which is a huge threat to the well being 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### not only of the nation but the planet. 1



### There's almost unanimous agreement among 2



### the climate scientists of the world

-- at least 3



### those that are not on the payroll of the carbon 4



### industry

-- that climate change is happening 5



### fast , and it is being caused largely by manmade 6



### pollution. And a large part of that comes from 7



### carbon dioxide from existing coal plants, coa l

8



### fired power plants. 9



### But before the EPA can tackle the carbon 10



### emissions from existing plants, I understand that 11



### you are required to, first of all, get standards 12



### in place for proposed plants. And so these 13



### standards are a critical step towards addressing 14



### a major underlying cause of climate change. But 15



### they're also important in their own right in 16



### setting standards that will ensure that power 17



### plants are built with limits on carbon pollution 18



### so they don't further exacerbate the climate 19



### change problem. 20



### At pr esent, power companies protect the 21



### health, safety, and well being for the people 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### they are supposed to serve only when they are 1



### required to do so by regulations. They are set 2



### up to make the most profits possible while 3



### dumping as much of their waste and fil th on the 4



### community free of charge as they are able to 5



### legally get away with and more sometimes. I 6



### commend the EPA for creating these proposed 7



### standards which will limit the extent to which 8



### the power companies will damage the nation and 9



### the planet in thei r pursuit of profits when new 10



### power sources are being built. The standards 11



### will go a long way towards leveling the playing 12



### fields so that clean, renewable sources of power 13



### will be able to compete and win out over dirty 14



### sources, particularly coal, and here tofore be 15



### able to pass on the cost of their pollution to 16



### the public and the planet. 17



### Renewable sources of energy

-- electric 18



### energy

-- are now available at costs that are 19



### close to or lower than the cost of carbon

- based 20



### power and are much lower when the ful l cost of 21



### externalities of coal are included. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### In a paper released in February of this 1



### year in the Annals of the New York Academy of 2



### Sciences, Dr. Paul Epstein is the associate 3



### director of the Center of Health and Global 4



### Environment of Harvard Medical Scho ol dealt at 5



### great length with the economic health and 6



### environmental costs associated with each stage in 7



### the co al life cycle, extraction, transportation, 8



### processing, and combustion. And these costs are 9



### between a third to over half a trillion dollars 10



### annual ly, and they are passed on directly to the 11



### public

-- hidden costs that make electricity look 12



### cheap but not be cheap. Accounting for the total 13



### harm from coal would add close to

-- he says

-- 14



### 17.8 cents per kilowatt hour to the cost of 15



### electricity generated

-- a huge amount. And 16



### these costs don't include the full cost of 17



### climate change from storms, tornados. He only 18



### takes into account a portion of those. 19



### The American Lung Association found that 20



### coal

- powered electricity alone caused us over 21



### 13,000 prematur e deaths in 2010, and as well as 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### almost 10,000 hospitalizations and more than 1



### 20,000 heart attacks a year. 2



### So it's critical that the proposed 3



### standards for carbon emissions from proposed 4



### power plants be implemented as quickly as 5



### possible to prevent the co nstruction of new dirty 6



### power stations that will transfer more damaging 7



### costs onto the public. 8



### Then, I implore you to move from there 9



### quickly to create standards for pollution from 10



### existing power sources, which is where the real 11



### problem lies. 12



### Thank you s o much for the work you're 13



### doing. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Clarifying 15



### questions? 16



### MR. HUTSON: Yes, I didn't get the author 17



### of the study that

-- from the Harvard School

-- 18



### MR. STUCKEY: I'll give you a copy of it. 19



### The reference was to a study from Paul Epstein 20



### and many other people, Annals of the New York 21



### Academy of Sciences Full Cost Accounting for a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### life cycle of coal. I'll leave a copy with you 1



### when I go. 2



### MR. HUTSON: Fantastic. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. With the people 4



### at the registration table. 5



### MR. STUCKEY: Okay. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Yes. Thank you. 7



### MS. GRABLE: I'm Jane Jesuit [phonetic] 8



### Grable. And I'm a concerned green citizen, and I 9



### just want to encourage you to not let me breathe 10



### coal dust. 11



### And I feel that there is investment 12



### dollars that a re waiting for a clear signal from 13



### you to invest those dollars to create renewable 14



### energy. So that's my goal is to have renewable 15



### energy, not coal dust in the air. 16



### And I appreciate all the work that you 17



### do. Thank you. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 19



### I'd li ke to call Sidney Kitzmiller and 20



### Michael Olenger. 21



### [Pause.] 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. KOERBER: Is Michael Olenger present? 1



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's in the 2



### hallway. Can you ask? 3



### [Pause.] 4



### MR. OLENGER: Well, here I'm sitting with 5



### this young lady. Hi. 6



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAK ER: Hello. 7



### MR. OLENGER: How you doing? 8



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good. 9



### MR. OLENGER: I'm Mike Olenger. I 10



### haven't been in this room or this building since 11



### the Asian carp meetings. So let's hope we 12



### stop ped them

. 13



### I want to thank you guys for coming. I 14



### want to thank the EPA. 15



### First of all, let me explain who I'm 16



### from. I'm from the Chimney Safety Institute of 17



### America. I used to work for Standard Oil back in 18



### the day. 19



### The reason why the air is like it is 20



### right here in the Chicago land area today is 21



### di rectly because of fires out west that the parts 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### per million from fires and forest fires like this 1



### are causing our air in the east, besides China 2



### and the third world countries, to pollute our air 3



### from overseas. This is happening right now. 4



### There's five fi res in Arizona. Arizona burned 5



### first last year. New Mexico burned second, and 6



### Texas burned almost all year. 7



### It's a shame that

-- well, only that we 8



### have one water hydrant plane in the sky, in an 9



### old jet, but you have Boeing in this town. This 10



### is not ju st about coal, but I will touch on coal 11



### in a few minutes. 12



### Boeing needs to build the hydrant plane 13



### of the future. We spend billions and billions 14



### and billions of dollars on Homeland Security. 15



### That is where the name should be, Homeland 16



### Security. It also i s with coal. 17



### I live four miles west of the coal 18



### burning power plant in Waukegan, which has no 19



### Clean Air Act requirements. In order for them to 20



### burn their coal they use ammonia and mix it in 21



### with their exhaust or burn it with their exhaust 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to make it past the EPA. 1



### Toxic coal. The only way that you're 2



### going to clean up toxic coal is if you produce a 3



### better power plant than the one that's up in 4



### Kenosha, Wisconsin, and Pleasant Prairie because 5



### if you stand upwind and you look downwind as the 6



### smoke is going to the southeast, you will see 7



### parts per million of mercury coming out of that 8



### power plant and all good things that are really 9



### not good for us to breathe. 10



### The Great Lakes here is dying. I'll tell 11



### you why they're dying. Because of the quagga 12



### mussel comin g in during the Bush era. We've got 13



### Asian carp on our doorstep out here. There's 14



### ways to solve that, but I can't go into that 15



### today because I'm more concerned about our air 16



### and the toxicity of our lakes. 17



### Our lake water is down. And mostly I 18



### hear the re ason why it's down is because, well, 19



### it's in drought season from global warming. We 20



### had the largest dump in the lake last year of 21



### toxic material out these locks. The reason why

- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### - besides drought

-- the lake is down is because 1



### the algae is taken out of i t. When you go down 2



### to the lake, you look at the lake, and it's 3



### crystal clear. The algae and the plankton 4



### produce oxygen. Oxygen in its gaseous state is 5



### very, very large. So you have two more parts to 6



### the lake that are down, and the reason why the 7



### wate r is down is not just because of one. 8



### Our earth

-- when you look at this earth 9



### and you look at our house or this building that 10



### you're in, you don't want carbon monoxide in your 11



### house or in this building. It destroys life. 12



### Our earth is a seven

- mile eggsh ell. You can 13



### practically walk out of our atmosphere in one 14



### day. This would be the only home that we can 15



### live in. There is no other home that we can go 16



### to. We're destroying this seven mile eggshell 17



### just like DDT destroyed the eggshell of the bald 18



### eagle. 19



### The laws and the water with the quagga 20



### mussel, there's no way of stopping it right now. 21



### Bitumen, whether it be from coal, whether it be 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### from oil, they both have the same products in 1



### them that cause cancer, that cause lung defects, 2



### that destroy this child 's life right here. 3



### Eventually

-- and I don't want to scare you. 4



### Eventually it's going to catch up to her. My kid 5



### right there wonders what's going on with the 6



### power plant in Waukegan. I've been out three 7



### times videoing and putting it on YouTube and on 8



### my website at Eco Lighthouse Native Shores Safety 9



### First Group. 10



### This power plant

-- are you going to 11



### Great America this year? Would you like to go? 12



### Yeah. Okay. Watch the video and step up for 13



### your clean air when you get on a ride because I'm 14



### just a mil e east of there. 15



### If you consider that bitumen comes from 16



### coal and all the byproducts of toxic combustion

- 17



### - I'll go back up to this. There is only one 18



### thing that you can admit to. You emit it; you 19



### pollute. No matter what you do, whether you 20



### drive a car or whether you drive a diesel truck, 21



### a farm machinery, or you burn ethanol fuel. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Ethanol fuel is one of the worst things that we 1



### could be putting in our gas right now because 2



### what it does is it drives down the miles, drives 3



### up the pollution at the power plant from the farm 4



### to transportation of diesel fuel to the still. 5



### Then you have to cook the corn in the still, 6



### which produces more carbon dioxide. You have to 7



### use something to burn that product or boil that 8



### product. Then there is no way of shipping it in 9



### a pipeline that is safe for alcohol fuel anywhere 10



### in this country. There is zero pipelines. In 11



### the ethanol industry we pumped in 23 to $25 12



### billion since 2005. 13



### I'm going to touch on this Keystone 14



### pipeline. You guys are with the EPA. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Si r, we're out of time. 16



### MR. OLENGER: We're out of time? 17



### MR. KOERBER: Yes. 18



### MR. OLENGER: All right. Well

-- 19



### MR. KOERBER: You can leave your written 20



### comments

-- 21



### MR. HUTSON: Final comment? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. OLENGER? Final comment? Well, let 1



### me put it this way: The EPA, like I had said is 2



### part of Homeland Security. If this Keystone 3



### pipeline goes through, that may be jobs for a 4



### year, maybe two. That oil is either going out 5



### western Canada through Kitamit or else it's going 6



### down to the Gulf. 7



### I said I worked for Standard Oil. 8



### Standard Oil had the standard for oil. Everybody 9



### tried following it. This Keystone pipeline is 10



### pumping power sludge into our rivers. Or, excuse 11



### me, it's going to. It produces 30 percent more 12



### carbon dioxide to boil the fuel off the sand. 13



### Okay? It's not for us. It's for China. It's 14



### for the Far East. 15



### Remember I said at the very beginning 16



### that the Far East is much dirtier than here? I 17



### got a biologist who's working, and he really 18



### doesn't want to say anything until he gets out of 19



### the fed eral government because he doesn't want to 20



### lose his job

-- 21



### MR. K OERBER: Thank you, sir, for your 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### time. 1



### MR. OLENGER: Yes. I hope you breathe 2



### well. Thank you, guys. Let's clean it up. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Ms. Kitzmiller, you ready? 4



### MS. KITZMILLER: Yes. 5



### M R. KOERBER: Okay. 6



### MS. KITZMILLER: Hi, my name is Cindy 7



### Kitzmiller, and I am 11 years old. I am here 8



### today to represent the children of today and the 9



### children of tomorrow. 10



### First, I'd like to thank you for 11



### listening to us today. Thank you for your 12



### miss ion to protect human health and environment. 13



### And thank you for your efforts to protect 14



### children from the coal industry. 15



### According to the American Lung 16



### Association particle pollution from coal plants 17



### is estimated to kill approximately 13,000 people 18



### each ye ar. We really, really need someone to 19



### protect us to ensure cleaner air. 20



### Coal executives do not care about our 21



### health or the environment. Coal executives do 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### not care beyond bonuses earned for stealing 1



### resources from my generation and the next. They 2



### do n ot care that 25 percent of children living 3



### near coal plants have asthma. Coal profits do 4



### not pay the costs of coal. Children like me do 5



### with their lungs and health. 6



### We are too young to work for the coal 7



### industry. We want to be healthy and our food 8



### ok ay to eat. We want all of the costs to be 9



### counted before the profits and bonuses. We want 10



### coal, oil, and fracking to pay their own costs. 11



### Stop these corporations from passing these costs 12



### to us. Our health should be protected and our 13



### resources should be protected. 14



### We need the EPA to stand up to money and 15



### politics. We need the EPA to protect me from 16



### donating my lungs to coal profits. We have clean 17



### energy sources that won't give me asthma. We 18



### have clean energy sources that don't pollute the 19



### water with mercury. These clean energy sources 20



### don't pass the costs to me. 21



### We have a fragile environment that most 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### people don't understand. We need the EPA to 1



### protect our ability to sustain lives as we know 2



### it. Our environment is dying bit by bit, more 3



### and more. Who is going to protect the 4



### environment for us, for the children living by 5



### the coal plants, for the people eating the fish 6



### in the rivers? 7



### Please continue your mission and protect 8



### our only environment from the dirty coal 9



### industry, from the oil industry, and from the 10



### fracking industry, and teach us to turn to clean 11



### energy. That is our only future. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 13



### [Applause.] 14



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We are on a five

15



### minute break. It is 9:50, and we will resume at 16



### 9:55. 17



### [Break from 9 :5 0 a .m. to 10 :0 0 a .m.] 18



### MR. KOERBER: The time is approximately 19



### 10:00 o'clock, and we are back in session. 20



### Now I'd like to call Kathy Kieser and 21



### Matthew Withers . And I'll remind you that you 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### have five minutes each, and we have a clock here 1



### with colored lig hts that indicate where you are 2



### on your time. 3



### MS. KIESER: Good morning. My name is 4



### Kathy Kieser. I live at 1307 Brentwood Place in 5



### Joliet, Illinois. 6



### I'm here today because of my concern for 7



### the health of people in my community, 8



### particularly disadvanta ged children living on the 9



### far east side of Joliet. 10



### I've been involved with the Head Start 11



### Program for 30 years. During this time we have 12



### seen an enormous jump in the number of children 13



### affected by asthma. When I first began working 14



### at Head Start we had 500 children enrolled and 15



### approximately 50 children with asthma or 10 16



### percent. 17



### This year there are 700 children enrolled 18



### in Head Start in Joliet, and approximately 175 of 19



### those children have asthma, 25 percent of the 20



### population. 21



### Now all Head Start teach ers must be 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### trained to respond to asthma attacks. Inhalers 1



### are available in each classroom with physician 2



### instruction on treatment for each child. 3



### And in the current Head Start population 4



### 6 children require EpiPens on site due to the 5



### seriousness of their asthma conditions. 6



### Sadly, there was a terrible tragedy at 7



### one of our Head Start Centers, the Bluff Center. 8



### A few years ago Ms. Rodriguez worked as a 9



### teacher's assistant at that center, and one 10



### afternoon Ms. Rodriguez' 10

- year

- old daughter, 11



### Maria, stopped by after school. Maria suffered 12



### from chronic asthma, and her mother struggled to 13



### keep up payments of medical treatment for her 14



### daughter. 15



### But on that particular day an asthma 16



### attack came on suddenly to the child. The staff 17



### struggled to respond, 911 was called but to no 18



### avail. Maria died from the asthma attack in one 19



### of the Head Start classrooms. 20



### The story is a chilling remind er of the 21



### terrible risks that accompany asthma, especially 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in our poorest neighborhoods, and especially in 1



### those neighborhoods ad jacent to dirty coal

- fired 2



### power plants. 3



### The EPA has made significant strides in 4



### recent years to deal with these problems, and the 5



### public is very appreciative of that. I urge you 6



### to continue to protect the health of the public 7



### by setting national limits on the amount of 8



### carbon pollution that power plants are allowed to 9



### emit. Carbon pollution standards will help 10



### prevent life

- threatening conditions such as those 11



### that most surely contributed to the death of 12



### Maria Rodriguez. 13



### Thank you for your time and atte ntion. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 15



### MR. WITHERS : Good morning. My name is 16



### Matthew Withers . I live on the east side of 17



### Joliet. I'm here to lend my voice to the 18



### struggle that's people in the city of Joliet are 19



### being affected by. 20



### Joliet's a very unique pla ce in the sense 21



### that it does have a number of pollution

- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### generating facilities down there, and we have 1



### seen over the years

-- and I say that advisedly 2



### because shortly

-- this week, I believe

-- I'll 3



### be turning 72. So I've lived in Joliet most of 4



### my life. 5



### And I remember seeing and hearing my 6



### mother and father talk to organizations like 7



### yours. I don't think EPA was even envisioned in 8



### those days, but it first started off with 9



### quarries. And then we went into fire generated 10



### plants. And we're talking about wa ter pollution 11



### where these coal ash facilities are bringing

-- 12



### dumping their coal ash into the empty quarries, 13



### which will then, in fact, leach down into the 14



### aquifers, which could cause problems with the 15



### people [sic] drinking water. 16



### I'm sort of passionate a bout this, but I 17



### find it sort of ironic that here I am 72, and I'm 18



### looking around the room, and I may be the oldest 19



### guy here, and we're still talking about this 20



### stuff. And my mother and father are dead and 21



### gone, and we're still talking about this 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### pollutio n situation. 1



### Thank you very much for your attention. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 4



### I'd like to call Bill Davis and Donna 5



### Hriljac. I get it right? 6



### MS. HRILJAC: Absolutely right. I'm very 7



### impressed. 8



### MR. KOERBER: That's from my Chicago 9



### ba ckground. 10



### You can provide them to the people at the 11



### registration table. They the official keepers 12



### out there. 13



### MS. HRILJAC: I guess I'm going to go out 14



### of order since he said ladies first. 15



### My name is Donna Hriljac, and I want to 16



### thank the Environmental Protection Agency for 17



### giving me the opportunity to testify. 18



### I do support the new carbon pollution 19



### standards recently proposed by you. As a 20



### lifelong resident of Chicago and its suburbs I 21



### became concerned, really concerned, when I read 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the report card rega rding the state of the air 1



### from the American Lung Association. Cook County 2



### got an F for ozone days, for high ozone days, and 3



### an F for particular pollution. I was really 4



### surprised. I thought they were cleaning it up, 5



### but got the papers here, and that's w hat it says. 6



### I also work with a person, Tony, who has 7



### a three

- year

- old son with severe allergies and 8



### asthma. They live in Evergreen Park, so they're 9



### also in Cook County. 10



### I am a volunteer with Inner City Outing 11



### on the weekend. And our job is to work wit h 12



### local agencies and work to introduce children and 13



### teens to the out of doors. They love it. They 14



### have a great time. 15



### A couple weeks ago we went to Stark Rock. 16



### We actually had to cut our trip in half because a 17



### girl with asthma had to leave early. And so , we 18



### split the group, and a nurse and one of the staff 19



### agency went out with the girl, and then we 20



### continued on the rest of the way. But that was 21



### really disappointing. I really, really feel bad 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### that somebody my age has more energy than a 1



### teenager. 2



### So, t hank you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 4



### MR. DAVIS: Good morning to each one of 5



### you. I thank you so very much for this privilege 6



### and this opportunity to come and speak with you 7



### this morning concerning this EPA. 8



### My name is Bill Davis, and I live in 9



### Joliet, I llinois where I serve as a deacon at one 10



### of the largest Baptist churches there, which is 11



### Mount Zion Baptist Church where the Pastor David 12



### G. Latimore is the pastor of that church. 13



### Among the neighbors of that church is 14



### located a dirty power plant and depos its coal ash 15



### residue, and there is a landfill also that is 16



### located directly within the center of that 17



### community in which the people live. And it 18



### potentially leaches water into the supply of 19



### those that lives in that community and those 20



### parishioners that at tend the Mount Zion Baptist 21



### Church. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### And I come here today because I have 1



### testified at other EPA hearings that has been 2



### held here in Chicago. I also have traveled to 3



### Washington, D.C., and met with some legislators 4



### in the House and in the Senate regarding their 5



### mission problems in the area and similar areas in 6



### the nationwide. 7



### I want to thank you also for

-- like I 8



### said, for allowing me to come here and to have a 9



### say for those who have little voice or no voice 10



### from the community that I come here representin g. 11



### This past week our congregation held five 12



### funerals, one of which was for an eight

- year

- old 13



### child. This child died of leukemia, a child who 14



### had been perfectly and healthy. Then suddenly 15



### his parents observed he came down with a lump 16



### that was located in his lymph node in his neck. 17



### And this is not an unusual occurrence that is 18



### happening in that area. There has been a lot of 19



### sicknesses that have be felled a lot of people 20



### that live in that area because of the pollution 21



### that is being emitted from in the ai r and also 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### from the coal ash plant that is located directly 1



### in that area, which it contaminates the water 2



### wells. 3



### I applaud you, the EPA, for establishing 4



### a national standard for new power plants so we 5



### can anticipate a future, one that's less marred 6



### by tra gedies such as this child's death and some 7



### other sicknesses that has ravished that area. 8



### I represented, like I said, the many 9



### folks who would like to be here but due to 10



### illness and other things that they could not join 11



### us here today. Those of you who sit in powerful 12



### places tend to forget the folks who actually live 13



### are on hold while authorities try to convince us 14



### that the contamination in our water and air is 15



### just a hoax

. 16



### We should get well. I am here to tell 17



### you that we are not going to get over it. W e are 18



### going to clear the air, force all future power 19



### plants to adhere to national standards and 20



### continue finding innovative ways to produce 21



### power. I stand before you to claim that victory 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and also ask that you would join and help us to 1



### do the same. 2



### Thank you so very much for allowing me 3



### today. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 5



### I'd like to call Toby Chow and Martin 6



### Molowski. 7



### MR. MOLOWSKI: Who do I

-- 8



### MR. KOERBER: Is that your statement? 9



### MR. MOLOWSKI: Yes. 10



### MR. KOERBER: We'll give it to the people 11



### out at the desk, but you can leave it. 12



### MR. MOLOWSKI: Okay. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 14



### MR. CHOW: Good morning. My name is Toby 15



### Chow. I am a member of S OUL, Southsiders 16



### Organized for Unity and Liberation a c ommunity 17



### o rganization on the s outh side and s outh s uburbs 18



### here in Chicago. And I am also the Chair of the 19



### Social Ministry Committee of Augustana Lutheran 20



### Church and Campus Ministry of Hyde Park. 21



### I'm here to speak in favor of the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### proposed carbon pollution standards and also in 1



### favor of taking the next st ep of regulating 2



### carbon from existing sources. I do so because I 3



### feel an urgent need to do what I can to slow down 4



### global warming as well as the pollution caused on 5



### a local level by the extraction of fossil fuels. 6



### And I want us to understand that we are 7



### talking here about an injustice on an 8



### unprecedented scale inflicted by wealthy and 9



### powerful interests upon those who are poor and 10



### vulnerable. I want us to understand this and I 11



### want us to get angry. 12



### As a Christian, my understanding of this 13



### sort of anger that is appropriate to injustice is 14



### guided by scripture, so I'd like to share some 15



### scripture that I find relevant to the topic at 16



### hand. 17



### I am reading from Ezekiel, Chapter 34. 18



### Thus says the Lord God, I shall judge between 19



### sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. Is it 20



### not enough for you to feed on the good pasture 21



### but must you also tread down with your feet the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### rest of the pasture? When you drink of clear 1



### water must you foul the rest with your feet? And 2



### must my sheep eat what you have trodden with your 3



### feet and drink what you have fouled with your 4



### feet? Therefore, that says the Lord God to them, 5



### I, myself, will judge between the fat sheep and 6



### the lean sheep. 7



### In this passage God is angry, and God is 8



### in the mood for judgment. This is a passage 9



### addressed to the fat sheep, to the elite, to the 10



### wealthy, to the rulers and leaders. In this 11



### passage Ezekiel proclaims divine judgment upon 12



### this privileged class. They are judged for their 13



### sin. And what is the sin of the fat sheep? 14



### In the first place, they have taken more 15



### than their fair share of the resources which have 16



### been provided to humanity

-- to all of humanity 17



### as part of God's creation. They feed on the good 18



### pasture and drink of the clear water. In other 19



### words, they take the best of everything for 20



### them selves and leave everyone else, the lean 21



### sheep, to scramble for the leftovers. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### But the fat sheep do more than that. Not 1



### only do they take the best of the land and water 2



### for themselves, they also ruin and pollute what 3



### little they leave behind. Must my sh eep eat what 4



### you have trodden with your feet and drink what 5



### you have fouled with your feet? 6



### Similarly, the extraction consumption of 7



### fossil fuels reaps great riches for some and 8



### inflicts enormous suffering upon others. The 9



### lean sheep in this case are the poor and 10



### vulnerable people who have not profited in the 11



### same way from this system and have no choice but 12



### to attempt to survive in the lands and with the 13



### waters which are being fouled and desecrated by 14



### the system. 15



### We see this, for example, in the poor 16



### pe ople of Appalachia who are stuck with the land 17



### and water poisoned by mountaintop removal coal 18



### mining. In Hurricane Katrina we saw the 19



### [unintelligible] of how climate

- related disasters 20



### bring suffering most of all to the poor and to 21



### al ready oppressed racial minorities. In 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### impoverished areas of Bangladesh

-- we look at 1



### things internationally

-- 30 million people are 2



### set to lose absolutely everything, what little 3



### they have, over the next few decades due to rises 4



### in sea levels and the increasing severity of 5



### cy clones and droughts. They are losing their 6



### homes, their farms, their communities, and their 7



### whole way of life. Their land and water is being 8



### stolen from them from 30 million people so that 9



### others may profit. This is a great crime, and it 10



### is being commit ted currently with impunity. As 11



### the foreign minister of Bangladesh has commented, 12



### the people being affected are not the big banks 13



### but the poor. Our plight goes quite unnoticed. 14



### It does not make the rich countries produce 15



### trillions of dollars overnight

- - unquote. 16



### When the land and water is trodden upon 17



### and fouled, it is the poor and oppressed who 18



### suffer. But in the long run the suffering caused 19



### by global warming is not limited to those whom we 20



### now recognized as poor. I want everyone in this 21



### room to un derstand that unless we reverse current 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### trends radically and rapidly, the effects of 1



### global warming will become more and more severe 2



### in the decades to come to the point where 3



### basically everyone, except perhaps the ultra 4



### rich, will face devastation as a res ult. We will 5



### have no choice. In the long run global warming 6



### will turn us all into lean sheep. 7



### We need to get angry about this, and we 8



### need to fight back. We need to fight back as if 9



### our lives depended on it because they do. 10



### And to the representatives of the EPA, I 11



### don't know how much the EPA pays you, but I am 12



### guessing that most likely most of you are more or 13



### less in the same boat as the rest of us. And 14



### assuming that's right, I ask you to understand 15



### these carbon pollution standards as a necessary 16



### step along the way to combating an outright, 17



### outrageous, and vile system of injustice, one 18



### that will eventually come after you and those you 19



### care about. And I ask you to pursue these 20



### standards accordingly and move to regulate the 21



### existing sources as well. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Th ank you. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 2



### MR. MOLOWSKI: All right. Well, I hope 3



### you all are doing well today. My name is Martin 4



### Molowski. I am a graduate student studying 5



### biology at the University of Illinois at 6



### Springfield. 7



### I come here not only concer ned about my 8



### generation but every generation coming after it. 9



### Ninety

- seven percent of the scientific community 10



### is in agreement on manmade climate change. As a 11



### biologist I can tell you that if you don't want 12



### to believe the scientists, you can just look at 13



### nature. Animals, ranging from tiny insects to 14



### large mammals, are now moving to higher 15



### latitudes. Plant species around the globe are 16



### blooming earlier in the year. This is not a 17



### conspiracy put on by the butterflies and plants. 18



### The United States just saw its hottest 12 19



### months in recorded history. This is going to be 20



### the new normal. Right now what we need to focus 21



### on is damage control and how to minimize climate 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### change as much as possible. 1



### There are some who say that we aren't 2



### causing it, that climate ch ange occurs naturally. 3



### The earth climate changes in response to whatever 4



### the dominant forces are on the planet at the 5



### time. In the past it was volcanic eruptions and 6



### activity by organisms living on the planet in the 7



### past. Right now we are the dominant fo rce 8



### causing change. 9



### This has been scientifically tested and 10



### proven. Once again the scientific community is 11



### basically in agreement on this. One of the most 12



### alarming things about the change in particular is 13



### that past changes were very gradual, taking plac e 14



### over the course of thousands, even millions, of 15



### years. 16



### The change that humans are causing is 17



### occurring in the geological blink of an eye. 18



### This sudden change is dangerous for many reasons, 19



### one of them being how a sudden change in 20



### temperature greatly aff ects the water cycle. And 21



### eventually we're going to see wet areas like 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Bangladesh and Seattle experience more rain and 1



### catastrophic floods. Dry areas, like down state 2



### Illinois, and most of the Midwest are going to 3



### experience much more drought. 4



### I have li ved in down state Illinois for 5



### the past year. After receiving an abundance of 6



### snow every winter, they experienced virtually no 7



### winter this year. The local people I've talked 8



### to are alarmed by this. 9



### Last summer central Illinois also 10



### experienced a very de vastating drought. One 11



### could not see a single green patch of grass for 12



### miles. What had once been health rivers and 13



### streams flowing with fresh water were now low, 14



### stagnant ponds. 15



### Droughts caused by climate change are 16



### going to create big problems for ag riculture and 17



### will likely lead to an increase in food prices 18



### nationwide. The price of many crops, including 19



### corn, soybean, and grain, will increase as a 20



### result. The price of meat will also increase as 21



### corn and grain are often used to feed livestock 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and o ther animals. Other products that include 1



### corn and grain, like corn syrup and stuff like 2



### that, will also increase in price. 3



### A recent study by Stanford and Purdue 4



### University show that the impact climate change is 5



### going to have on corn will greatly outweig h the 6



### impact caused by changes in oil prices. Many of 7



### you may be sick of the rising gas prices or sick 8



### of people complaining about the rising gas 9



### prices. Just wait until the American people are 10



### complaining about how they can't afford dinner. 11



### This is why we must act now to prevent the 12



### agricultural, economic, and environmental 13



### problems that will occur in our lifetime. 14



### As of yesterday, May 23rd, 2012, 15



### according to the National Aeronautics and Space 16



### Administration, the carbon content of the 17



### atmosphere is ne arly

-- currently 393 parts per 18



### million. To minimize the effects of climate 19



### change we need to get that number down to 350 20



### parts per million. In order to preserve this 21



### great nation and civilization in this current 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### date, we're going to need to make changes

. 1



### About 150 years ago Charles Darwin wrote 2



### a book that was so profound, accurate, and 3



### relevant that it's still used by biologists 4



### today. Darwin would lay out the foundation for 5



### understanding survival when he said, It is not 6



### the strongest of the species t hat survive, nor is 7



### it the most intelligent that survive , it is the 8



### one that is most adaptable to change. 9



### Thank you for your time. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Any clarifying 11



### questions from the panel? 12



### MR. HUTSON: I don't have any clarifying 13



### questions, but I do like the

-- your line about 14



### not a conspiracy put on by the butterfly and the 15



### plants. I like that. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Any questions? 17



### MR. ANGELBECK: No. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you for your time. 19



### MR. MOLOWSKI: Thank you. 20



### MR. KOERBER: I would like to ca ll Sandy 21



### Carter and Dr. Anita

-- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### DR. BELODIS: Belodis. 1



### MR. KOERBER:

-- Belois? 2



### DR. BELODIS: Belodis. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Belodis. Oh, that's a D. 4



### I'm sorry. My apologies. 5



### Good to go. 6



### MS. CARTER: Good morning. My name's 7



### Sandy Carter. I am a third

- y ear undergraduate at 8



### the University of Chicago and would characterize 9



### myself as an environmental activist. 10



### I just spent the past two years fighting 11



### to change the way society treats the environment 12



### in an attempt to mitigate the negative impacts of 13



### climate change the world is beginning to face. 14



### While I want my government to do more, I am 15



### excited that the EPA is looking towards issues of 16



### carbon, and I support this proposed rule to limit 17



### emissions. 18



### As an individual, a student, and as a 19



### member of the next gen eration I am especially 20



### concerned about the future of humanity on this 21



### planet. Carbon dioxide emissions have been shown 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to be linked to climate change. And as many of 1



### you know, the potential impacts of global warming 2



### are truly frightening. 3



### I grew up on the shores of the Chesapeake 4



### Bay in Maryland, and I've seen firsthand the 5



### effects of fossil fuels and carbon emissions. In 6



### 2003 a tropical storm struck my community and 7



### flooded by neighborhood and my childhood home. I 8



### realize that the connection between carbon 9



### emissions, climate change, and weather patterns 10



### is often doubted and remains under debate. But 11



### watching the flood waters rise was very real. 12



### And it was real when my neighbors, many of whom 13



### had lived in the region for their entire lives 14



### and whose f amilies had called the Chesapeake home 15



### for generations, explained that no storm in the 16



### past 50 years had caused this amount of damage. 17



### While my neighborhood recovered, this and 18



### many larger disasters such as Hurricane Katrina 19



### in 2005, throw into focus the direction our world 20



### is headed if we don't act. More carbon in our 21



### atmosphere means more intense storms. It means 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### an increase in coastal flooding. It means the 1



### oceans will take back the land. It means my 2



### mother's home will be under water in 50 years. 3



### I t means our snow will melt and our rivers will 4



### run dry. It means water and food shortages. It 5



### means no future for the beautiful planet I call 6



### home, and it means no future for my generation. 7



### It means I wake up terrified, not because I don't 8



### know what job I'm going to have after I graduate, 9



### not because I worry about the economy, but 10



### because I worry in 50 years I won't be able to 11



### live, because I worry that my friends and my 12



### family, many of whom are not concerned about 13



### carbon issues, will not have air to bre athe and 14



### will not have food to eat. 15



### There are many days when I have my doubts 16



### about changing the future. I doubt that we can 17



### do anything about climate change, that the 18



### social, economic, and political atmosphere will 19



### ever allow for the development of a mo re 20



### sustainable society. 21



### But the coming closure of the two coal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### plants in this city which I now call home gives 1



### me some reason to hope, and this rule gives me 2



### more hope. 3



### The new rule will limit the amount of 4



### carbon that new power plants can emit to a 5



### thou sand pounds per megawatt hour. This is a 6



### start to moving our society off of fossil fuels. 7



### Yet I still have feelings of doubt. We 8



### need to do more. We need to stop building coal 9



### plants, period. We need to stop building natural 10



### gas plants, period. We ne ed real climate rules. 11



### We need leaders, both nationally and 12



### internationally, willing to fight for this 13



### planet. And we need to hold our corporations 14



### accountable. We need to realize that we cannot, 15



### as a country and a world, keep waiting. And we 16



### need the E PA to institute this proposed rule and 17



### then fight for an even stronger rule. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### DR. BELODIS: Well, I don't have any 21



### prepared speech. I'm Anita Belodis. I'm a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### family physician. I've been a family physician 1



### for over 38 years. 2



### And my concern is the impact that the 3



### pollution has on health. We know that asthma has 4



### increased and has

-- and we still see deaths from 5



### asthma and we know that pollution has an effect 6



### on that. 7



### Chronic obstructive disease, emphysema, 8



### every sing le kind of pulmonary problem, whether 9



### you smoke or not, it is affected by pollution. 10



### And I really, really

-- that's why I'm here. 11



### I took a day off

-- well, I have to work 12



### later

-- and just thought I'd be here and wasn't 13



### expecting to speak, but then when I saw that it 14



### would be important for a physician to talk and to 15



### impress upon you how important it is for us to 16



### clean up our air so we can protect our children 17



### and our grandchildren. 18



### And thank you for listening to me. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### MR. HUTSON: My only point to that would 21



### be we certainly appreciate the fact that you took 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the day off, and probably others have as well, so 1



### we appreciate the people coming in to share their 2



### thoughts. Thank you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Tom Mar, 4



### Simar. 5



### MR. S IMAR: Simar. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Simar. And Dennis Nelson. 7



### MR. SIMAR: Just start? 8



### MR. KOERBER: Yes, please. Please begin. 9



### MR. SIMAR: Good morning. My name is Tom 10



### Simar, and I'm an attorney in the Chicago office 11



### of the Natural Resources Defense Counci l or NRDC. 12



### I'm here today to talk about two reports 13



### that NRDC has released in the last year in 14



### partnership with the Rocky Mountain Climate 15



### Organization. The document that impacts the 16



### climate change is already having on the Midwest 17



### region and in the Grea t Lakes most popular 18



### national parks. 19



### NRDC will be submitting each of these 20



### reports to the docket for this rulemaking, along 21



### with numerous other comments and information, in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### strong support of EPA's proposed rule. 1



### The impacts of climate change we can 2



### alrea dy see, and those we are likely to see more 3



### and more in coming years underscore the critical 4



### importance of EPA's new source performance 5



### standard for new power plants that is the subject 6



### of this hearing. 7



### EPA's new source performance standard is 8



### a significa nt milestone to prevent more 9



### potentially disastrous ecological and health 10



### effects of climate change before they happen. 11



### The first NRDC report released this month 12



### presents new data on increasing extreme weather 13



### in the Midwest region in recent years which i s 14



### being driven by human

- caused climate change. The 15



### largest of storms, those of three inches or more 16



### of precipitation in a single day, have increased 17



### the most, with their annual frequency more than 18



### doubling over the past 51 years. 19



### Floods are to the Midwes t what hurricanes 20



### are to coastal areas, the region's most widely 21



### destructive type of regularly occurring natural 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### disaster. Extreme storms in isolation can cause 1



### flash flooding, but when they occur where soils 2



### are already saturated and stream levels are 3



### al ready high, and especially when they occur in 4



### rapid succession, extreme storms can cause 5



### widespread, sometimes devastating flooding. 6



### Across the United States flooding is the 7



### second most costly type of natural disaster. In 8



### 2010, which ranked fourth in reg ional extreme 9



### storm frequency, Iowa alone had $1 billion in 10



### agricultural losses from extreme storms. In 11



### 2011, which ranked fifth, Midwestern flooding 12



### caused $2 billion in damages. 13



### NRDC's Midwest Extreme Weather Report 14



### identifies how future emissions of h eat

- trapping 15



### pollution will affect total precipitation rates. 16



### If those future emissions are relatively high, 17



### extreme storms could increase by more than 40 18



### percent. And even if we act now to hold down 19



### future emissions, storms could still increase by 20



### as muc h as 20 percent. 21



### The second NRDC report I'm here to talk 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### about today, which we released last summer, 1



### documents how climate change is the greatest 2



### threat that national parks in the Great Lakes 3



### Region have ever faced. This report presents new 4



### information o n how temperatures are projected to 5



### continue increasing throughout the Great Lakes 6



### Region under different future emission scenarios. 7



### NRDC's Great Lakes National Parks Report 8



### makes clear that if we don't act now to rein in 9



### our emissions of carbon pollution , temperatures 10



### throughout the Great Lakes Region could go up by 11



### eight degrees or more by the end of this century. 12



### That would be the equivalent of moving Florida's 13



### climate to northwest Indiana. 14



### But if we are able to put the right 15



### policies in place to cut c arbon pollution and 16



### move us to a cleaner energy future, we can reduce 17



### the amount of damage that happens to our national 18



### parks and our whole region. 19



### Our report details how cutting this 20



### pollution would help us preserve native plant and 21



### animal species, and i conic natural features in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### our national parks. 1



### This isn't about sea levels rising or 2



### melting ice caps in some far away landscape. 3



### These national parks are special places that 4



### those of us that live in the Great Lakes Region 5



### has visited and loved our whole lives. These are 6



### some of the places we take our children on field 7



### trips and summer vacations. These parks also 8



### attract people and dollars from all over the 9



### country, but these national parks are now being 10



### put in harm's way by a warming climate. 11



### The nat ional parks are not the only 12



### places where climate change will affect us, but 13



### the impacts are often most visible there because 14



### they are our most ecologically valuable and 15



### fragile places, the places in most need of 16



### protection. 17



### But we are seeing climate chan ge impacts 18



### not just in the national parks but all over the 19



### Great Lakes. In Lake Erie, for example, climate 20



### change combines with a multitude of other 21



### problems, making toxic blue

- green algae blooms 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### worse by lowering lake levels and increasing the 1



### concentrat ions of phosphorous in the lake. 2



### We need to head off climate change 3



### quickly to protect our Great Lakes parks, the 4



### iconic landscapes and wildlife that live in them, 5



### and our own communities. The national parks in 6



### the Great Lakes Region are economic engin es 7



### responsible for 3,000 jobs and $200 million in 8



### annual revenue. 9



### EPA's proposed standard for limiting 10



### carbon pollution from new coal

- fired power plants 11



### is needed to protect not only the health of 12



### ourselves, and our families, and our future 13



### generations bu t also the jobs and the massive 14



### revenue that come out of these parks from the 15



### Great Lakes $7 billion fishery and from all of 16



### the other sectors of our economy that depend on 17



### clean air and clean water. 18



### Thanks for the opportunity to testify 19



### today. 20



### MR. KOERB ER: Thank you. 21



### Mr. Nelson. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. NELSON: Good morning. This is real 1



### progress. Let's move forward with the proposed 2



### U.S. EPA carbon pollution standard for future 3



### power plants as quickly as possible. 4



### My name is Dennis R. Nelson. I reside in 5



### Chicago nea r southwest side Bridgeport 6



### neighborhood. From my building I can see Midwest 7



### Generation's older Fisk coal

- fired generating 8



### station, one of the two biggest industrial 9



### sources of climate disruption pollution within 10



### the city's limits, whic h will be closed th is 11



### September. 12



### I have a Bachelor of Science, B.S. degree 13



### in biology and environmental studies from Dana 14



### College, Blair, Nebraska. I am the President of 15



### the Chicago

- based Nuclear Energy Information 16



### Service, NEIS, Illinois' nuclear power watch 17



### group. And our website is www.neis.org. 18



### Yes, I know that the U.S. EPA's historic 19



### carbon pollution standard would establish the 20



### first ever national limits for climate disruption 21



### pollution from newer coal

- fired power plants. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### With the N standing for nuclear in our na me, I 1



### did not walk into the wrong hearing by mistake. 2



### NEIS supports this proposed carbon pollution 3



### standard as a key component of a carbon

- free 4



### nuclear

- free energy pathway. The U.S. EPA 5



### finally exercising its legal authority granted by 6



### the U.S. Supreme C ourt to regulate carbon 7



### pollution will help us to make the smoother 8



### transition to inherently cleaner and safer energy 9



### choices, state of the art energy efficiency 10



### improvements, combined heat and power, and well

11



### designed, property sited, appropriate renewabl e 12



### energy technologies. In turn, we will enhance 13



### our security, promote healthier lifestyles, and 14



### create thousands of good

- paying green collar 15



### jobs. 16



### This past Tuesday, May 22nd, I joined a 17



### student

- organized protest of the Heartland 18



### Institute's 7th Internat ional Conference on 19



### Climate Change at the Hilton Chicago Hotel. We 20



### had better rename it the Heartland Institute's 21



### 7th International Conference on Climate Denial 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and Delay. 1



### With an officer here in the windy city, 2



### the Heartland Institute's nice neutral

- sou nding 3



### name conceals its true mission as a climate 4



### denying and delaying front group think tank. We 5



### can no longer afford to deny the scientific 6



### consensus about human

- induced climate disruption. 7



### About 97 percent of all climate scientists who 8



### published in pee r

- reviewed scientific 9



### publications accept that our activities are 10



### responsible for most of the global heating that 11



### has happened over the last 50 years or so. We 12



### can no longer afford to delay taking the urgent 13



### actions of finalizing, adopting, and implementi ng 14



### the U.S. EPA's historic carbon pollution standard 15



### for newer coal

- fired power plants. Let's move 16



### forward to complete this process as soon as 17



### possible. This is real progress. 18



### Thanks for giving me the opportunity to 19



### testify. So that concludes my remark s. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 21



### Any clarifying questions? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HUTSON: No. 1



### MR. ANGELBECK: No. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Simar, the names of the 3



### two reports that you cited? 4



### MR. SIMAR: The first report was released 5



### in May of this year. It's Doubled Trouble an d 6



### relates to the Midwest extreme weather. And the 7



### second report is Great Lakes National Parks in 8



### Peril. We released it last July. 9



### MR. HUTSON: And you're going to provide 10



### copies of those or

-- 11



### MR. SIMAR: We'll submit both to the 12



### docket for this rulema king. 13



### MR. HUTSON: Thank you. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 15



### I'd like to call Alicia Klepfer and Carla 16



### Eisenberg

. 17



### Good morning. Please begin. 18



### MS. KLEPFER: Hi, my name is Alicia 19



### Klepfer, and I would like to thank the EPA for 20



### holding this hearing and giving me the 21



### opportunity to testify in favor of the proposed 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### carbon standards for new coal plants. 1



### I'm the Director of the University of 2



### Chicago Climate Action Network or UCCAN. Earlier 3



### this year our group gathered a panel of speakers 4



### to discuss soluti ons for climate change. Over 5



### 100 students attended our event and gathered to 6



### listen as a politician, an economist, a solar 7



### energy company founder, and a Sierra Club 8



### organizer told the room that there are ways to 9



### combat the growing amounts of greenhouse ga ses in 10



### our atmosphere. 11



### They all identified challenges in that 12



### fight, but the one common thread among all four 13



### speakers was that change is not only possible, 14



### but it is definitely possible with government 15



### regulation to stand behind our determination. 16



### Curre ntly there are no regulations or 17



### limits on how much carbon can be released into 18



### the air from coal plants. There are no 19



### regulations, even though carbon is proven to be 20



### one of the leading factors of climate change. 21



### I tried to explain that to one of my 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### thir d

- graders that I tutor here in Chicago. To 1



### explain that to a nine year old I had to tell him 2



### that the

-- to make electricity the power plants 3



### need to burn fossil fuels, but there aren't any 4



### restrictions on how much smoke or other things 5



### are released into the air even though we have the 6



### technology to prevent it. 7



### Simplified and (unintelligible) 8



### propaganda from greedy energy companies, this 9



### system of profit without respect for 10



### externalities is illogical and irresponsible. 11



### Coal plant pollution is unnecessary and 12



### should be prevented with green technology and 13



### energy replacements. Without carbon standards we 14



### prove ourselves to be basically short

- sighted and 15



### kind of ignorant. If we can't see the carbon and 16



### it doesn't cost us any money, why worry about it? 17



### But temperature fluctuations and ocean 18



### acidification prove that carbon pollution is a 19



### very real and very harmful phenomenon. Even 20



### within the City of Chicago carbon is also proving 21



### to be more than a climate issue. As I'm sure you 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### have heard from everybody els e, carbon pollution 1



### makes many other types of air pollution more 2



### harmful and more severe, such as mercury and 3



### soot. 4



### But as a student in Chicago

-- I actually 5



### grew up in Colorado, and I never had to worry 6



### about dirty air. I grew up with clear skies and 7



### sn owy mountain peaks, and I just got to run 8



### outside all the time. And I came to school in 9



### Chicago, and I ended up with chronic sinus 10



### infections from the pollution in the air because 11



### I was allergic to it. 12



### I will be 20 in July, which means that I 13



### hopefully have, you know, another 70 or 80 years 14



### to live on this planet. And I must admit as a 15



### University of Chicago student, I am a fan of 16



### science fiction and fantasy. So, a world with a 17



### dead ocean, and rising sea levels, and blistering 18



### summers, and freezing wint ers sounds like some 19



### sort of story plot that I would like to read, but 20



### when I think about doing that to my planet, it 21



### makes me kind of sick. And I hope that with the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EPA's help we don't have to do that to our 1



### planet. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 4



### MS. EISENBERG : My name is Carla 5



### Eisenberg . I live in Hanover Park about 30 miles 6



### west of here. 7



### I appreciate the opportunity to be here 8



### today to support the proposed standard to limit 9



### carbon emissions and reduce carbon pollution 10



### created by new power plan ts. 11



### I attended the EPA hearing last year 12



### related to limiting emissions of mercury, acid 13



### gases, and toxic metals. And both times my 14



### understanding has been that control technologies 15



### are readily available to meet and exceed the 16



### proposed standards. 17



### I find i t unsettling that public support 18



### must be demonstrated for such a fundamental need 19



### as the right to breathe clean air. I find myself 20



### asking who among us would argue against the need 21



### to protect human health and our environment. Who 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### doesn't want to breathe c leaner air or eat fish 1



### without having to worry about contamination? Who 2



### exactly is opposed to protecting the health of 3



### pregnant women, infants, and the elderly who are 4



### at greater risk to all forms of pollution? Who 5



### doesn't want to protect the planet? 6



### Th e answer is both obvious and 7



### disturbing. Industry interests cannot be trusted 8



### to regulate themselves. We need the EPA to 9



### approve strong regulatory standards. We need the 10



### EPA to have the power to enforce those standards 11



### by imposing significant penalties. And so, I 12



### come here today with my fellow citizens to 13



### empower you to act on our behalf. 14



### Pollution is a form of poisoning. When 15



### we know the problem and we know the solution, 16



### acting to protect the health of our citizens and 17



### our natural environment is the only defensible 18



### position. Anything less is immoral. 19



### That is why I urge you to pass these 20



### proposed standards which are necessary, modest, 21



### and overdue. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I would like to leave you with this final 1



### thought based on a saying by the Cree Indians. 2



### Perhaps only when the last tree has died and the 3



### last river has been poisoned and the last fish 4



### has been caught will we realize we cannot 5



### breathe, drink, or eat money. 6



### Thank you for taking this positive step 7



### to protect the environment. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 9



### Any questions? 10



### MR. HUTSON: No. 11



### MR. ANGELBECK: No. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 13



### Okay. I'd like to call Meleah Geertsma

. 14



### My apologies for any mispronunciation. 15



### MS. GEERTSMA : That was actually correct. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Ready when you are. 17



### MS. GEERTSMA : Good morning. And thank 18



### you for the opportunity to comment on behalf of 19



### the Natural Resources Defense Council and our 1.3 20



### million members and activists. 21



### My name is Meleah Geertsma , and I am an 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### attorney with NRDC's Midwest program. NRDC 1



### supports the EP A's proposed carbon pollution 2



### standard for new electric power plants, the first 3



### national limits on carbon dioxide from this top 4



### emitting sector. 5



### Controlling carbon pollution from power 6



### plants is critical to addressing climate change 7



### and its impacts on hea lth, including here in the 8



### Midwest. Climate change is having and will 9



### continue to have serious impacts on the Midwest. 10



### At the most basic level climate change will 11



### increase temperatures, especially in urban areas 12



### which act as heat sinks. Last summer saw 13



### b rutally hot temperatures throughout the nation 14



### with Chicago and many cities at or exceeding 15



### record temperatures on multiple days. This year 16



### is off to a record

- smashing start as well with 17



### March logging as the hottest March since 18



### recordkeeping began back in 18 85. 19



### As Chicagoans know all too well, these 20



### extreme heat days don't just cause temporary 21



### discomfort but can kill people, especially the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### elderly and young children who are especially 1



### susceptible to heat stress. 2



### NRDC this week released a report called 3



### Ki ller Summer Heat based on peer

- review published 4



### studies, which estimates the growth in health

5



### related deaths due to excessive heat caused by 6



### climate change in the nation's 40 largest cities. 7



### The report shows that the Midwest in particular 8



### is vulnerable to increases in heat. By the end 9



### of this century numerous cities throughout the 10



### Midwest and in neighboring states will see 11



### thousands and thousands of additional heat

12



### related deaths due to climate change. 13



### Indeed, Louisville, Detroit, and 14



### Cleveland top the li st at approximately 19,000, 15



### 18,000, and 17,000 additional deaths, 16



### respectively. Chicago comes in at about 6,400 17



### additional deaths. Other Midwest cities topping 18



### the national list are Columbus, Minneapolis, and 19



### St. Louis. All told, the region is set to lo se 20



### approximately 75,000 lives from exc essive heat 21



### alone, about half of the nationwide total 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### described in our report. And it will get worse 1



### if we don't take action now to set limits on 2



### carbon pollution. 3



### In addition, as my colleague Tom Simar 4



### discussed ear lier this morning, extreme storms 5



### and other weather events will pummel the Midwest 6



### as a result of climate change, resulting in 7



### billions of dollars in damage to infrastructure 8



### in homes as well as public health costs. 9



### For these reasons, it is imperative tha t 10



### EPA move swiftly to finalize its standards for CO 2 11



### from power plants. Power plants together produce 12



### more than 2.3 billion tons of carbon dioxide each 13



### year. This is about 40 percent of the country's 14



### total CO 2 

### emissions and more than a third of all 15



### green house gas emissions. As EPA determined 16



### after reviewing mountains of scientific data and 17



### analysis, greenhouse gases endanger the public 18



### health and welfare. EPA, therefore, has a duty 19



### to control greenhouse gases from power plants 20



### under Section 111 of the C lean Air Act. And NRDC 21



### supports the agency's efforts to date. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### In particular, we support the following 1



### aspects of EPA's proposed standard: establishing 2



### a single category consisting of both natural gas 3



### fired combined cycle generating units and coal

4



### fired steam generating units. These units 5



### perform the same function of the base load and 6



### the intermediate load power generation and so are 7



### properly considered together. 8



### EPA has asked for comment on the 9



### treatment of simple cycle gas turbines, and we 10



### will addres s this issue further in our written 11



### comments. 12



### We also support setting the standard no 13



### higher than 1,000 pounds per megawatt hour. 14



### Indeed, we believe the standard should be set 15



### below 1,000 pounds for several reasons. First, 16



### modern, new natural gas combin ed cycle plants can 17



### meet a tighter level at no additional. Second, 18



### new coal

- fired power plants employing carbon 19



### capture and storage technology can also meet a 20



### tighter level especially in light of the 30

- year 21



### averaging provisions that EPA has proposed. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### We note that several plants recently 1



### proposed in Illinois and Indiana as carbon 2



### capture and storage projects showed that this 3



### control option is feasible now and will only 4



### become more so in the upcoming years. 5



### It is also important to note that 6



### contrary to cl aims by companies and groups 7



### opposing EPA's action the standard will not act 8



### as a de facto ban on constructing new 9



### conventional coal plants or result in job losses 10



### and higher utility bills. Rather, as EPA has 11



### demonstrated, the proposed new standard actual ly 12



### will impose no additional costs on the industry 13



### or on electric rate payers and will have no 14



### adverse impacts on jobs. 15



### This is because, as numerous power sector 16



### experts have recognized, market realities have 17



### already driven decisions on new power plants a way 18



### from coal. In the State of Michigan this shift 19



### can be seen in the cancelation in December 2011 20



### of a conventional coal plant proposal by 21



### Consumers Energy. The company has noted in the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### press that its choice is influenced by low 1



### natural gas prices, and it intends to build two 2



### new wind farms to help serve future demand. 3



### MR. KOERBER: We need you to finish up. 4



### MS. GEERTSMA: Sure. 5



### American Municipal Power similarly 6



### canceled a plan to build a conventional coal 7



### plant in Ohio in November 2009, citing prima rily 8



### the skyrocketing cost of construction that made 9



### the plant uneconomical in light of less expensive 10



### alternatives such as natural gas and wind power. 11



### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 12



### this morning. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Any clarifying 14



### question s? 15



### [No response.] 16



### MR. KOERBER: The report that you 17



### referred to, is that the May 2012 report that

-- 18



### MS. GEERTSMA: Yes. 19



### MR. KOERBER:

-- that Tom Simar mentioned 20



### earlier? 21



### MS. GEERTSMA: Yes, and as he stated, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### we'll be submitting it in the record. 1



### MR . KOERBER: Okay. 2



### MS. GEERTSMA: And I'm going to give you 3



### a written copy of my remarks as well. 4



### MR. KOERBER: You can leave it with the 5



### registration table. They're the official 6



### keepers. Thank you so much. 7



### MS. GEERTSMA: Thank you. 8



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Don Ferber 9



### and Judy Skog. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We're going to give 11



### this to the official record keeper. 12



### Would you like to begin? 13



### MR. FERBER: Okay. (Unintelligible) had 14



### a chance to go through my notes again. 15



### MS. SKOG: Oh, I'll do it then. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. 17



### MR. FERBER: Well, no, that's fine. I'd 18



### be listening to you, so I'll just go ahead. 19



### Do you need to know where we're from and 20



### everything else? Name? 21



### MR. KOERBER: Your name and affiliation, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### please. 1



### MR. FERBER: Right. Okay. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 3



### MR. FERBER: My name is Don Ferber. I'm 4



### here from Madison, Wisconsin. I am a volunteer, 5



### a long

- time volunteer with the Sierra Club and 6



### head of our

-- a volunteer head of our Wisconsin 7



### Beyond Coal Team because I had to form some of my 8



### -- I have to say it's more personal. 9



### So I want to thank you for this 10



### opportunity to be here and testify about the 11



### clean air standards that you're proposing for new 12



### power plants. 13



### In one sense I guess I'm surprised we 14



### even need to be here to debate this issue given 15



### what we know about the effects and other fossil 16



### fuels on human health, on the environment, and 17



### everything else. I mean, it really seems like it 18



### shouldn't be an issue. I mean, it's not like we 19



### don't know about all the toxins in fossil fuel 20



### an d about climate change already is causing and 21



### for that matter will continue to further worsen 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in the future. And I don't feel like there's 1



### really a question of what needs to be done here 2



### to follow the EPA's mission which is protecting 3



### good health and the environment. 4



### I don't know if it was some part maybe of 5



### my upbringing that I was brought up to not do 6



### violence to others, to be conscious of what I was 7



### doing, be mindful of what the effects were. For 8



### instance, my parents didn't buy me any guns to 9



### play wit h. It wasn't something that you should 10



### have as a toy just to pretend where you might be 11



### doing something that would harm other people. 12



### That really wasn't acceptable. 13



### And in the society, you know, if somebody 14



### goes out there and uses a gun to willfully hur t 15



### other people, they're going to be charged with a 16



### crime, which makes me wonder, you know, because 17



### we know the effects of these fossil fuel plants. 18



### Those are harming other people. So, why is this 19



### acceptable that we can allow this harm to people 20



### and to the environment? 21



### You know, it's one thing if we're doing 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### something constructive. Obviously we do want to 1



### produce the power. We've got a demand for that, 2



### but why do we have to include or accept the gross 3



### amount of harm that's happening to other people 4



### and t o the environment which is also going to 5



### contribute to the worsening problems for people. 6



### Certainly the harm we're causing now is nothing 7



### compared to what's going to happen down the 8



### future in terms of what's predicted with climate 9



### change. 10



### I've worked for years in Wisconsin to try 11



### to help us move beyond fossil fuels. I think we 12



### see there are better alternatives. There are 13



### ways we can do things with efficiency and clean 14



### energy that are available to us. We just have a 15



### very entrenched industry at this point in time 16



### with what's going on. 17



### In Wisconsin we've known for years that 18



### it's

-- there have been

-- have to be cautious 19



### about eating fish from our lakes and rivers and 20



### so on because of the amount of mercury in their 21



### particular. It's a real problem. And we like to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### attract people to Wisconsin to fish and enjoy the 1



### outdoor environment, but it already says 2



### something when we have all these toxins that are 3



### in the fish to an extent that we really have to 4



### be cautious about eating them. 5



### We also have times when the re are clean 6



### air advisories, particularly in the Madison and 7



### Milwaukee areas where the increased asthma and 8



### other pulmonary problems

-- they show up in those 9



### times and people increasingly go to emergency 10



### rooms or just complain about problems that they 11



### can' t go biking or whatever else, that they feel 12



### the difference. So it's definitely causing a lot 13



### of problems. 14



### And in terms of climate change, also we 15



### have the Wisconsin Integrated Climate Change 16



### Institute there that has talked about the 17



### increasing rainfall events that we're having, 18



### especially over two inches of rainfall events and 19



### how dramatically that's increased and is likely 20



### to worsen. 21



### We've certainly seen years where we've 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### had a lot of flooding that we just rarely have 1



### had historically in the past and a lot of things 2



### where they talk about 100

- year floods, and yet 3



### they're coming a few years apart. 4



### Wisconsin doesn't have any fossil fuels, 5



### so it realized, especially for us, that there are 6



### better ways to create jobs for the economy, not 7



### only there but elsew here. And in most cases 8



### these jobs

-- as in elsewhere

-- would be local 9



### jobs. You know, there are industries. There is 10



### efficiency being buildings and other things up to 11



### better standards that can be done that will 12



### really help local economies more, and it 's 13



### certainly a key thing on a lot of people's mind 14



### at this point in time. 15



### So, I'm glad that the EPA has proposed a 16



### rule on new power plants, but I think it's really 17



### only a step in the right direction. I think 18



### there are some other things we need to do, gi ven 19



### that we know the dangerous place we're at with CO 2 20



### and other emissions and that we need

-- these 21



### standards were only a minor step in terms if we 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### want to get down to the 350 parts per million 1



### that's predicted that we need if we're going to 2



### control clima te change or have any reasonable 3



### control over it. 4



### I mean

-- and I hear there's pushback on 5



### this, you know, about jobs and everything else. 6



### Well, first of all, you know, these things

-- as 7



### studies have shown, especially by the Natural 8



### Resource and Defense Council, tend to create

-- 9



### stimulate technology and innovation, and create 10



### jobs. There is very little job loss, if any. 11



### And that's not even taking in account the health 12



### care affects. 13



### I mean, all the pushback on this reminds 14



### me of the complaints about a utomakers when they 15



### said, oh, these cars are going to cost way too 16



### much if we put on pollution controls or we put in 17



### safety belts, whatever else. Now they're putting 18



### in things that are commonplace, and they don't 19



### complain about the other things that the p ut in 20



### that, you know, aren't safety issues or health 21



### issues, and they just do that de facto. It's 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### just not a real problem. 1



### So, I think there's no need to let 2



### industry also have higher limits as is proposed 3



### in this rule initially when they put in power 4



### pl ants. I think they should be put in that. 5



### So, anyhow, the other things is currently 6



### we analyze toxins separately. I think that's a 7



### huge problem. We don't know the cumulative 8



### effects, and I think we need to be more cautious 9



### about that. 10



### Also, they shoul dn't only be limited to 11



### fossil fuels but waste and biomass put in 12



### considerable amounts of CO 2 

### and other toxins as 13



### well. We need to be looking at limiting that. 14



### And we need standards for current power 15



### plants. What we're going to do with the new ones 16



### is s imple inadequate for what we need to do for 17



### the future. So, what I'm asking the EPA to do is 18



### create strong standards since the benefits, as 19



### you've shown and other studies have shown, 20



### considerably outweigh the costs by a large 21



### margin. And we don't want to have future 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### generations asking us, when you knew better, you 1



### know, about the problems that can be caused, why 2



### didn't you care enough about us to take effective 3



### measures. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 6



### MS. SKOG: Is this three minutes or five 7



### minut es? 8



### MR. KOERBER: Five minutes. 9



### MS. SKOG: Okay. Thank you, first of 10



### all. My name is Judy Skog. I drove down with 11



### Don this morning because this is really 12



### important. And I have two things that I'd like 13



### to address , the extreme weather events that have 14



### been happening in Wisconsin and pollution effects 15



### on health. 16



### I have asthma. I can tell you that there 17



### is a yellow air quality day today here in 18



### Chicago, that there will be a yellow air quality 19



### day when I go home. Around Christmas a couple of 20



### years ago w e had, I think, five days where there 21



### were four orange days and one red day, and I 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### could barely move. Now I didn't end up at the 1



### hospital or anything, but I had no energy because 2



### I just couldn't get enough oxygen. That's good 3



### enough on asthma. And my as thma is mile. I 4



### cannot imagine what it's like for people who have 5



### severe asthma. 6



### I am a member of the Harmony Valley Farm 7



### CSA. Are you familiar with CSAs, Communit y 8



### Supported Agriculture? It's a subscription thing 9



### with organic vegetable farmers. I get a weekly 10



### box of vegetables. And I've been a member for 15 11



### or 20 years in this particular farm. 12



### Harmony Valley is a large organic farm in 13



### western Wisconsin that delivers hundreds of boxes 14



### to the Twin Cities and to the Madison area each 15



### week. In August o f 2010

-- and I gave you 16



### pictures that the farmer took

-- 17



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18



### MS. SKOG:

-- of the flooding. There's 19



### some pictures that show

-- there's one picture 20



### that shows the fence during the flooding, and 21



### then there's a picture that shows the same scene 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### -- I don't know, a week or two later after the 1



### flooding had subsided. 2



### In August of 2010 there was a three

- inch 3



### downpour in two hours. Now this guy's got a big 4



### operation. It caused severe flooding, washed 5



### away

-- now this is in a

-- in the Cou lee Region 6



### of Wisconsin where there's lots of valleys where 7



### the farming happens and then fairly steep 8



### hillsides. Severe flooding washed away a lot of 9



### his crop, fences, and equipment. I wasn't able 10



### to get hold of him to find out if he lost any 11



### livestock, but just almost as bad, he lost a huge 12



### amount of topsoil. He's been spending 20, 30 13



### years building this topsoil. He was devastated 14



### by the loss of the topsoil, almost as much as by 15



### the loss of the crop because now he's got to 16



### build it back up again. 17



### In a ddition to that there were vegetables 18



### that he could not sell that did not wash away, 19



### but he couldn't sell them because nobody knew 20



### what was in the water that washed over his farm, 21



### didn't know if there were feces, or toxins, or 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### whatever. So there was a lot that he couldn't 1



### sell just because of that. 2



### All in all he suffered somewhere around a 3



### million

- dollar loss that year. And with crop 4



### insurance

-- I couldn't get the numbers from him 5



### -- but I know from talking to him that it was 6



### pitiful what he would get f rom crop insurance. 7



### And that was hours, and hours, and hours, and 8



### hours of paperwork for him dickering and bashing 9



### the whoever over the head. 10



### There's also a picture in there of a big 11



### huge stack of ramps. Now that's the big stuff. 12



### The small stuff is

-- ramps are spring 13



### ephemerals. They're very tasty. They're kind of 14



### like garlicky onions. And everybody looks 15



### forward to ramps in the first box of the spring 16



### or maybe the second box. 17



### Because of the week

-- or was it two 18



### weeks

-- of 80

- degree temperatures that we had in 19



### March, which is totally crazy, the ramps came and 20



### went. And they were done two weeks before our 21



### first vegetable box May 1st. Now, normally there 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### are ramps in the boxes in May. 1



### And then later this summer there will be 2



### approximately a 30 pe rcent loss of strawberries, 3



### which is really making me sad. The strawberries 4



### flowered during that hot weather, just like the 5



### apple trees did, and because they were already in 6



### flower when the freezes came, which they did, and 7



### we had a number of days where t here were freezing 8



### temperatures. They were SOL. 9



### It is totally irresponsible of us to dump 10



### this much carbon into the atmosphere because it 11



### makes it much harder for farmers to conduct their 12



### business. They cannot know what the weather's 13



### going to do. It's not predictable anymore 14



### especially for vegetable farmers who plant a 15



### diversity of crops. I mean, if you put the corn 16



### in, you put the corn in and it grows or it 17



### doesn't grow. How can the farmers possibly know 18



### when to plant, what to plant, what the weather 's 19



### going to be like with these wild and 20



### unpredictable swings from hot and cold, severe 21



### rain events, all of that. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Oh, yes, and all of our lakes

-- 1



### Madison's beautiful. We have

-- we're on five 2



### lakes. Every single lake has a fish advisory 3



### because of mercu ry. 4



### So, limiting carbon emissions from coal

5



### fired power plants will help me breathe better 6



### and carbon pollution limits will have a 7



### beneficial effect on the climate, which will help 8



### our farmers. 9



### Thank you very much. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Clarifying 11



### q uestions? 12



### [No response.] 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 14



### I'd like to call Howard Lee and Maria 15



### Torres. 16



### MR. LEE: You want to go first? 17



### MS. TORRES: Sure. Okay. 18



### What I want to say is, you know, I grew 19



### up in Chicago Little Village

-- 20



### MR. KOERBER: Cou ld you give us your name 21



### for the record? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MS. TORRES: Oh, I'm so sorry. My name 1



### is Maria Torres, and I'm with Pilsen Alliance. 2



### We're a community

- based organization and 3



### (unintelligible). 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 5



### MS. TORRES: And what I wanted to say is

, 6



### you know, I grew up in Chicago Little Village 7



### neighborhood, and now I work in the Pils e n 8



### community. And both neighborhoods live in the 9



### shadow of coal power plants that thankfully will 10



### soon be closing down. 11



### I am very proud to have helped fight

-- 12



### you kn ow, these plants, we should have

-- you 13



### know, should have been closed a long time ago. 14



### You know, they are the two biggest emitters of 15



### greenhouse gases in the State of Illinois. 16



### Doctors, nurses, scientists, and other experts 17



### say that carbon pollution is d angerous for 18



### children because climate changes, rising 19



### temperature, is likely to make small pollution 20



### worse which will trigger the asthma attacks and 21



### cause permanent damage and reduce the function of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### children's lungs. 1



### Children and seniors are particularly 2



### susceptible to the dangers of air pollution. 3



### EPA's new carbon pollution standards for power 4



### plants will help protect our children and 5



### families and public health from dangerous air 6



### pollutions by limiting the health

- harming effects 7



### of climate change and smo g that triggers these 8



### asthma attacks and other health consequences. 9



### You know, I have seen these things first 10



### hand in my community. The Fisk and Crawford coal 11



### plants here did significant damage to the health 12



### of our friends and neighbors. Like many high 13



### g reen

- gas polluting facilities, these relics of 14



### the past also spit it out in an era of other 15



### dangerous pollutants that have taken a 16



### disproportionate toll on communities of color. 17



### The EPA's carbon pollution standards for 18



### newer power plants is an important f irst step in 19



### making sure that the health problems we have 20



### lived in Little Village and Pilsen are not 21



### visited on others in the future. And they are a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### way

-- these are ways to limit some of the 1



### ongoing legacies of these plants in the form of 2



### respiratory dis eases in my neighbors and in my 3



### neighborhood. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 5



### Mr. Lee? 6



### MR. LEE: Good. Thank you. Good 7



### morning. My name is Howard Lee. I am the owner 8



### of Wirehead Technology here in Chicago, Illinois. 9



### I'd like to thank you for havi ng the hearing 10



### today. 11



### My small business was founded in 2005. 12



### We are energy saving

-- we provide energy

- saving 13



### computers for mobile marketing and additional 14



### service to help small and local business 15



### stabilize their IT function so they can save 16



### money and gr ow. 17



### By directing clients to the right kind of 18



### products

, we're helping them reduce their carbon 19



### footprint. That means a reduction in their 20



### business cost. Many people don't realize that 21



### the cooling equipment is a colossal energy drain, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and , therefore, it comes with a high price. 1



### When businesses start using more energy 2



### efficient equipment, it reduces their energy 3



### costs. And I can't emphasize enough the 4



### importance to pursue energy efficient technology 5



### because it's cost efficient for all business. 6



### That's why supporting the environment, 7



### protecting the standards to limit carbon 8



### emissions for power plants would have a positive 9



### effect on my business and many others. It would 10



### do a great deal to raise the awareness of the 11



### kind of technology we're promoting at W irehead. 12



### We're driving more companies to seek our 13



### service, and looking for optimum boosting on the 14



### bottom line. Small businesses like mine

-- all 15



### small business es for that matter, regardless of 16



### what industry

, have the potential to turn the 17



### economy around ; but we need smart policies to 18



### facilitate that process. Implementing the 19



### stronger carbon pollution standard under the 20



### Clean Air Act can help. 21



### I recently saw two s u rv eys from S mall 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### B usiness Majority that illustrates entrepreneurs 1



### across the country like me are looking for 2



### innovative policies to usher us into a modern 3



### economy that's not

-- that's more efficient but 4



### also more competitive. 5



### The organization's most recent clean 6



### energy poll released last month found that a vast 7



### majority of small businesses, 71 percent, believe 8



### government investment in clean energy plays an 9



### important role in creating jobs now and boosting 10



### the economy. 11



### In the same S mall B usiness M ajority 12



### survey which was conducted in Colorado, Michigan, 13



### Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, the 14



### organization also found respondents about 15



### specific proposals by the EPA to limit carbon 16



### emissions from new power plants. The result they 17



### found powerful and enduring support that this 18



### ruling apply to most among st small businesses. 19



### The poll revealed th at 76 percent of 20



### entrepreneurs in those states, which is more than 21



### three

- quarters, are in favor of the EPA 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### determining federal limits on power plant 1



### emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon 2



### dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, which is 3



### exactly what carbon pollution standards proposed 4



### by the EPA would do. The support from these 5



### entrepreneurs were so steadfast that 56 percent, 6



### the majority of them, said they would still back 7



### this rule even if it meant a possible increase in 8



### their utility rates. 9



### In additi on, Small Business Majority 10



### asked these owners whether they believed that 11



### EPA's regulations of carbon pollution and other 12



### emission s would impact their business in some 13



### degree. And 57 percent said it would. This 14



### truly highlights how significant t he standa rds 15



### would be for small business sectors. 16



### Another poll Small Business Majority 17



### conducted last summer showed similar results. 18



### That survey asked more than 1,000 business owners 19



### nationally how they would view EPA standards 20



### under the Clean Air Act that would curb carbon 21



### emissions from power plants and other emitters. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### The results were identical to the more 1



### recent polls. Seventy

- six percent supported the 2



### standard, and a striking 43 percent strongly 3



### supported it. And as they did in the six

- state 4



### poll, more tha n half of the respondents said that 5



### their own business would be impacted by the EPA 6



### regulations carbon emission with 6 in 10 saying 7



### that it would impact their business in a good 8



### way. 9



### The carbon pollution standards for new 10



### power plants will help the United States become 11



### a more competitive and global economy, but more 12



### importantly will have a positive impact at the 13



### local level because small business owners right 14



### here at home will become more aware of the 15



### benefits of energy efficiency. This will mean 16



### new pro jects, opportunity for businesses like 17



### mine, and our new clients to save money for 18



### themselves. 19



### Altogether our increased income will be 20



### used to reinvest in our business, create and 21



### maintain jobs, and contribute to the economic 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### growth. So I support the EP A proposed carbon 1



### pollution standard because it's good for small 2



### business, and it's good for the economy. 3



### Thank you. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Clarifying 5



### questions? 6



### MR. HUTSON: I just didn't catch the name 7



### of your business. 8



### MR. LEE: Wirehead Tec hnology. 9



### MR. HUTSON: Wirehead? 10



### MR. LEE: Yes. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Wirehead. 12



### Thank you both. 13



### MR. LEE: Yes, thank you. 14



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call

-- 15



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Excuse me, 16



### gentlemen. I was wondering if I could turn in my 17



### testimony? 18



### MR. KOE RBER: Yes, the young lady there 19



### will take it. 20



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to hold 21



### onto it. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. KOERBER: Can you make copies for 1



### him? 2



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll make a copy. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Thank you for 4



### helping him. 5



### I would like to call Rober to Carmono and 6



### Leanne Castin

. 7



### Good morning. 8



### MS. CASTIN : Good morning. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Have you been running? 10



### MS. CASTIN : Running like crazy. They 11



### wouldn't take my credit card, and I couldn't park 12



### because of the credit card because three credit 13



### cards d idn't work. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Would you like a minute to 15



### catch your breath and have Mr. Carmono go first? 16



### MS. CASTIN : No, he can go first so that 17



### I can

-- 18



### MR. KOERBER: Relax a little. Okay. 19



### Very good. Make yourself comfortable. Mr. 20



### Carmono? 21



### MS. CASTI N : Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. CARMONO: Good morning. My name is 1



### Roberto Carmono, President and CEO of the Crimson 2



### Leadership Group and a board member of Voces 3



### Verdes, a coalition of Hispanic businesses and 4



### community leaders who support clean energy and 5



### healthy com munities. Thank you for your time 6



### today. 7



### On behalf of our coalition I'm here to 8



### express support for this critical EPA rule. This 9



### standard is an essential step towards spurring 10



### innovation, investment in low and non

- carbon 11



### technologies, new energy infrast ructure, and 12



### energy efficiency. 13



### As an Hispanic businessman and advisor to 14



### numerous businesses, I understand the importance 15



### of spurring new technologies and the beneficial 16



### effects these have on our businesses and our 17



### communities. The new standard will enc ourage a 18



### market

- based transition to clean energy economy, 19



### which will boost investment and create jobs all 20



### across the country. 21



### In my work I interact with numerous 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### businesses and various fields in energy 1



### construction management in retail businesses. I 2



### unde rstand firsthand that good business planning 3



### requires clear directions. These regulations 4



### provide that. I said in a clear direction that 5



### includes limits on carbon pollution would help 6



### resolve the uncertainty that is constraining the 7



### major investments tha t companies might consider

. 8



### With clear predictability businesses can better 9



### invest in our future. 10



### EPA's proposed standard give businesses 11



### the assurance they need in order to invest in our 12



### country's future. Many of my clients are seeking 13



### to invest in clea n energy. They recognize that 14



### if we intend to grow the economy, we all need to 15



### use the tools at our disposal to encourage 16



### transition to a clean energy economy. We also 17



### need the motivation, and this proposed standard 18



### provides this. 19



### For my clients, many o f those who are 20



### like me, self

- made Latino entrepreneurs, doing 21



### the right thing for our business should go hand 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in hand with doing the right thing for our 1



### community. We know that the carbon pollution is 2



### considered by experts to be a major public health 3



### thr eat with the power to impose staggering health 4



### costs on the economy and business owners. This 5



### nation needs to invest in clean energy 6



### technologies that will create jobs, strengthen 7



### the economy, and lead to clean air. 8



### The American people count on EPA to 9



### pr otect them from carbon and other forms of air 10



### pollution. Hispanic support for EPA is even 11



### stronger than among the general public, 12



### recognizing the need for these standards even 13



### where added costs may be involved. This support 14



### is strong among small business owners with 79 15



### percent of small business owners supporting 16



### ensuring clean air and water and 61 percent 17



### supporting moving the country towards energy 18



### efficiency and clean energy. 19



### In conclusion, our members at Voces 20



### Verdes, my colleagues at the Illinois His panic 21



### Chamber of Commerce, and leaders nationwide agree 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EPA must support these strong protective policies 1



### for our families, our businesses, and our 2



### communities. We urge EPA to adopt these rules. 3



### Thank you. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 5



### MS. CASTIN: My name is Leanne Castin. I 6



### live in Evanston, Illinois. Do you want to know 7



### the organizations I belong to? 8



### MR. KOERBER: Or who you're representing 9



### today. 10



### MS. CASTIN: About 50 of them. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Oh, okay. 12



### MS. CASTIN: That's an exaggeration. I'm 13



### representing CAPOW, capow, Citizens Act to 14



### Protect Our Water. I'm representing the Sierra 15



### Club, and I'm representing NEIS, Nuclear Energy 16



### Information Service. Okay? 17



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18



### MS. CASTIN: That's not 100, but

-- and 19



### I'm here to testify ab out the issues surrounding 20



### coal

- fired plants and their carbon emissions. 21



### There is not one of you here who is not 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### aware of the consequences to human health and the 1



### environment because of excess carbon in the 2



### atmosphere. You would not be sitting where you 3



### are were you not listening to the citizens like 4



### me if you are not qualified to fully understand 5



### the issues. You really know. 6



### So I'm not going to discuss the health 7



### effects of our environmental problems. I'm going 8



### to discuss the politics and the kind of climate 9



### where this hearing is even necessary. 10



### Years ago, after deep citizen anger EPA 11



### was commissioned to do a thorough analysis of the 12



### deadly chemical Dioxin, the contamina n t in Agent 13



### Orange. They did the study, and it was damning. 14



### All the scientific in formation capable of causing 15



### serious legal headaches for those chemical 16



### companies like Dow and Monsanto that made Agent 17



### Orange during the Vietnam war. I have those 18



### studies. 19



### Under corporate and government pressure 20



### EPA never published those findings. Th is, 21



### despite a second round of equally exacting 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### studies, EPA buckled then. The companies were 1



### protected. 2



### Now, some 40 years later, things are 3



### worse. I have not seen so much cruel contention 4



### and ugliness around environmental issues as I do 5



### now. I see the development of a value system 6



### where, today more than ever, profits are being 7



### put ahead of human health, the health of our 8



### future children, and the health of this very 9



### precious planet. And that includes my own very 10



### special grandchildren. 11



### I see a callous indifference to life. 12



### False science created to promote what is 13



### indefensible and a total disregard of that which 14



### created EPA in the first place. I see 15



### corruption. 16



### So, and simply instead of doing things 17



### that are right, just, and logical, EPA must hold 18



### the se hearings to bolster what is completely 19



### within your power to act. 20



### So I urge you all to do what is right. 21



### Protect the health of our citizens and the health 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### of our planet. You are all probably under some 1



### pressure. Hold fast and help create a world 2



### wh ere we may all be able to breathe clean air and 3



### drink our water unpolluted by emissions with 4



### safety and a sense of security. It's that 5



### simple. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 7



### MS. CASTIN: Thank you. Now if you want 8



### this, I'll be glad to give it to you. 9



### MR. K OERBER: Give it to the young lady 10



### here so put it into the record. 11



### MS. CASTIN: Okay. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Go on recess? 13



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. The time is 11:16, 15



### and we will be on recess until we have more 16



### speakers. And we will offi cially break for lunch 17



### at noon. So if we have no speakers between now 18



### and noon, then we'll be on lunch break from noon 19



### to 1:00, and then start up promptly at 1:00 20



### o'clock. 21



### Thank you all. Thank you for being here 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### today. 1



### [Break from 11 : 16 a .m. to 1 : 00 p. m.] 2



### MR. KOERBER: Well, good afternoon. 3



### Thank you for attending this public hearing. 4



### My name is Mike Koerber, and I am the 5



### Associate Director for Policy in EPA's Office of 6



### Air Quality Planning and Standards. I will be 7



### chairing today's hearing. 8



### Joining me on the panel are Nick Hutson 9



### with EPA's Sector Policies and Programs Division 10



### in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, and 11



### Alexis Cain with EPA'a Region 5 Office. 12



### We are here today to listen to your 13



### comments on EPA's Proposed Carbon Pollution 14



### Standa rd for New Power Plants. EPA published the 15



### proposed standard in the Federal Register on 16



### April 13th. This common sense step under the 17



### Clean Air Act would for the first time set 18



### national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 19



### power plants built in the fu ture can emit. 20



### For future power plants EPA is proposing 21



### to set an output

- based standard of 1,000 pounds 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### of carbon dioxide per megawatt hour. The 1



### Agency's proposal does not apply to existing 2



### units or to planned units that have already 3



### received permits and break ground within the next 4



### 12 months. EPA's proposed standard reflects the 5



### ongoing trend in the power sector to build 6



### cleaner plants that take advantage of American

7



### made technologies. 8



### The proposal is flexible and would help 9



### minimize carbon pollution t hrough the deployment 10



### of the same type of modern technologies that 11



### power companies are already using to build the 12



### next generation of power plants. 13



### EPA's proposal would ensure that this 14



### progress toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern 15



### power sector contin ues. 16



### Today we will be accepting oral comments 17



### on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 18



### prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 19



### transcript will be available as part of the 20



### official record for this rule. We are also 21



### accepting written comments on the proposed rule 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### until June 25th. 1



### At the registration area, which is 2



### located in the hallway outside of this room, 3



### there are handouts with detailed information for 4



### submitting written comments by mail, fax, or 5



### electronically. EPA will consider your com ments 6



### as we move forward to complete a final rule. 7



### Let me describe the procedures for 8



### today's hearings. I will call the scheduled 9



### speakers to the table in pairs. When it is your 10



### turn to speak, please state your name and 11



### affiliation before you begin your testimony. It 12



### would help our court reporter if you also spelled 13



### your name. 14



### To be fair to everyone, please limit your 15



### testimony to five minutes each and remain at the 16



### table until both speakers in a pair have 17



### finished. After you finish your testimony, 18



### me mbers of the panel may ask clarifying 19



### questions. If, in addition to the transcript of 20



### your testimony, you would also like us to put the 21



### full text of your written comments into the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### docket, please be sure to give a copy of any 1



### written comments to our staff at the registration 2



### table. 3



### We have a time

- keeping system consisting 4



### of green, yellow, and red lights to help you 5



### track your five minutes to speak. Right here. 6



### When you begin speaking, the green light will 7



### come on. The yellow light will signal that you 8



### have one minute left to speak. When the red 9



### light comes on, five minutes has passed, and I'll 10



### ask you to please complete your testimony. 11



### Today's hearing is scheduled from 8:30 12



### a.m. until 4:30 p.m. So we will be in this room 13



### until 4:30 today. 14



### If you wou ld like to testify but have not 15



### yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 16



### registration table in the hallway outside of this 17



### room. For those who have already registered to 18



### speak, we have tried to accommodate your request 19



### for specific time slots. We a sk for your 20



### patience as we proceed through the list of 21



### speakers. We may need to make some adjustments 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### as the day progresses. If any questions arise, 1



### please see a staff member at the registration 2



### table for assistance. 3



### Thank you again for participating. And 4



### let's get started. Our first two speakers will 5



### be Pat Walter and Andy Andre. 6



### MS. WALTER: And where was this green 7



### light then? 8



### MR. KOERBER: It will be showing it right 9



### here. You can start whenever you're ready. 10



### MS. WALTER: Okay. Thank you very much 11



### for being here in the City of Chicago and holding 12



### this hearing on the proposed rule for the carbon 13



### emissions. I fully support it and I agree with 14



### the testimony I heard earlier this morning about 15



### the importance of having this regulation 16



### established. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Excuse me. Your name for 18



### the record? 19



### MS. WALTER: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is 20



### Patricia Walter, W

- A

- L

- T

- E

- R. 21



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MS. WALTER: Thank you. Sorry. 1



### As your name says, you are here as part 2



### of our wonderful government to pr otect our 3



### nation. And you folks, specifically, are a part 4



### of the vital process. 5



### I am here to represent myself and others 6



### like me who need these regulations. I am a 7



### three

- time breast cancer survivor. I know very 8



### well how vital and important our time is here and 9



### on the planet. I was first diagnosed in 1994 and 10



### most recently in 2007. I have tried to live as

- 11



### - with many health habits as I can. I don't 12



### smoke. I don't drink. I've never used drugs. 13



### I've did what I thought was right and I still got 14



### breas t cancer anyway. 15



### I've worked for the Social Security 16



### Administration for over 40 years. I know what 17



### regulations are, and I actually read them and 18



### could understand most of it. 19



### I have two sisters who have never had any 20



### type of cancer . According to the Ame rican Lung 21



### Association website, Cook County is a grade F for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the air. My sisters live in

-- one lives in 1



### Albuquerque, which is a grade B, and the other 2



### one lives in Pittsburgh, which is a grade D. I 3



### thought it was interesting that Pittsburgh was 4



### better t han Chicago. 5



### I'm not trying to say that air pollution 6



### caused or was any part of causing my cancer, but 7



### part of the problem right now

-- and that's the 8



### good news is that I'm doing fine. But the 9



### current fact that is known is that there are 10



### currently, accor ding to the National Cancer 11



### Institute, 2.6 million cancer survivors. That's 12



### a good number, and it's a nice large number, and 13



### we want it to grow

-- on the good news. 14



### On the other side there's always going to 15



### be side effects from these treatments. Breast 16



### cancer is known to go to four favorite places if 17



### you want to call it that: the brain, the bones, 18



### the lungs, and the liver. And I used to do 19



### presentations on breast cancer. 20



### I am concerned about the air. I'm more 21



### sensitive to the air, any environmental p roblems 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### such as air pollution. As we get more survivors, 1



### there's going to be more of us. I'm sure 2



### everybody here has probably either known or is 3



### well acquainted or even not related to somebody 4



### who has had breast cancer. 5



### So, I see this as an important pa rt of 6



### the ways that your agency can continue to protect 7



### our nation. I think that I want to continue 8



### being healthy. To be honest, one of the things 9



### that I just added was that I was scared during my 10



### treatment. I had chemotherapy for six months. 11



### Losing my hair was very scary. But I tell you, 12



### one of the most scary times was when the 13



### treatment ended because then you're just

-- 14



### you're kind of out there, and you just know it. 15



### And I am concerned about my air. I am 16



### concerned about my water. I am concerned a bout 17



### what I eat, but I can do something about what I 18



### eat and drink. I can't do anything about my air. 19



### I walk outside. I can't live in my basement. I 20



### can't live in a cave. We need you. 21



### I know this is going to have limited 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### impact, but it's a start; and you have to have a 1



### start. And I very strongly hope that you will 2



### establish future regulations for plants that are 3



### currently operating. From what I understand, 4



### this is only going to have any impact upon future 5



### ones to be built and probably not any one tha t's 6



### going on right now, but I sometimes feel like I 7



### am responsible with my car, and yet I'm following 8



### a truck down the road that is spewing forth all 9



### these gallons of stuff. There are too many 10



### trucks out there that don't pay attention. 11



### So, thank you very much. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 13



### Mr. Andre? 14



### MR. ANDRE: I am Andy Andre. That's A

- N

15



### D

- R

- E. And I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I 16



### am here strictly on behalf of myself, although in 17



### some way perhaps on behalf of everybody who is 18



### still lucky to be brea thing. 19



### So I do, however, want to thank Sierra 20



### Club for providing a transportation for me 21



### because in all honesty, having been unemployed 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### for quite a few years, a 50, $60 cost in just gas 1



### and parking alone would have been prohibitive in 2



### coming down here to testify. And as much as I 3



### appreciate that you guys have the, you know, 4



### option to testify in two or three cities, it's 5



### too bad that more people can't come in and speak 6



### up. 7



### But that aside, I really want to thank 8



### you for existing or for taking these, you know, 9



### hearings rather than just listening to the people 10



### on the top who keep screaming against you. And 11



### I'll bitch and moan, I guess, that the government 12



### controlling this and that and everything else. 13



### Okay? 14



### I don't want to bore you with the things 15



### that y ou know way the heck better than I do in 16



### terms of, you know, that we have to obviously 17



### control the pollution of every aspect of our life 18



### because if we don't, we're in deep trouble. 19



### Okay? 20



### I don't believe in the people that 21



### obviously think that the earth is still flat and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### that what we do here doesn't affect us over 1



### there. Okay? And whether Milwaukee or Chicago 2



### or for that matter, any other city, you know, in 3



### the states or in the world is better or worse 4



### than the other, we're all eventually going to eat 5



### it, or breathe it, or drink it, or whatever. 6



### Okay? 7



### As the lady said here, you know, we have 8



### to depend on you guys to control things that we, 9



### ourselves, can't control. Okay? 10



### And I'm thinking back over the days when 11



### we just started controlling exhaust fr om the 12



### cars. You know, and I'm one of those that used 13



### to have a big gas guzzler that, you know, the 14



### only thing that mattered was how many horsepower 15



### are you going to put out of it. And God knows 16



### what the heck the thing spewed behind. And I'm 17



### reminded of that every time I see a, you know, 18



### car show nowadays with the cars from the '60's 19



### and '70's being on display. And every time they 20



### start it, you know, it's a coughing fit that we 21



### have as opposing to the newer cars that you can 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### sit behind and you can hardl y tell that they're 1



### running. 2



### So

-- and I also remember days when those 3



### controls came about or were proposed. 4



### Everybody's screaming, oh, we're going to lose 5



### the jobs and we're all going to be starving to 6



### death because all the jobs are going to be gone 7



### bec ause they won't be able to afford to make the 8



### cars that burn cleanly. 9



### Guess what. Burning the cars cleanly not 10



### only made them better and cleaner air, which was, 11



### of course, what the whole thing was all about, 12



### but it also made them more efficient because t he 13



### biggest problem with any combustion is the fact 14



### that a lot of unburned fuel gets dumped out in 15



### the air. 16



### Look at a truck every once in a while 17



### that steps on the gas, and there's this smoke 18



### billowing out of it. Most of it is unburned 19



### fuel. If we burned it better, we wouldn't 20



### pollute as much, and we'd getter a better fuel 21



### efficiency. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### So, that's kind of what's going to 1



### happen, I am pretty sure, w ith this proposal as 2



### well. I wish you went further and that it was 3



### tighter, but I understand, as a mechanical 4



### engineer myself, that you can't jump before you 5



### learn how to walk

-- you know, crawl, and walk, 6



### and run, and all the other things first. Okay. 7



### So, by all means, you know, you have my 8



### hundred percent support, not only to push this, 9



### but even much more str icter regulations. Will 10



### they be painful at first? Yes, they will be. 11



### But in the long term I think we're all going to 12



### benefit, including the people that are screaming 13



### against them. 14



### So, again, I want to thank you so very 15



### much for giving us this opportu nity and, by God, 16



### keep pushing for it because we depend on you. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Any 19



### questions? 20



### MR. HUTSON: Well, just as a comment. 21



### You said that, you know, you had the opportunity 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to come here to testify and you wish others had 1



### the opportunity. One thing I hope everyone knows 2



### is that everyone has the ability to submit 3



### written comments. 4



### MR. ANDRE: Right. 5



### MR. HUTSON: And we take those written 6



### comments, as we do oral comments, very seriously. 7



### And so, you know, that is anot her opportunity for 8



### citizens and groups to submit comments. 9



### MR. ANDRE: Thank you very much. Yes. 10



### Excellent. Thank you. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 12



### MS. WALTER: Thank you. 13



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Gary Jones 14



### and Carolyn Gerwin. Is Gary Jones in the room? 15


### [No response.} 16



### MR. KOERBER: How about Lawrence Lemon? 17



### Is Lawrence Lemon present? 18



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Whenever you're ready. 20



### MS. GERWIN: Okay. My name is Carolyn 21



### Gerwin, G

- E

- R

- W

- I

- N. And I am affiliated with 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the Il linois Wind Watch. Our website is at 1



### www.illinoiswindwatch.com. 2



### I have not received any payment . I have 3



### no affiliations with any industry group I paid 4



### my own way to drive two hours to come here and 5



### park at ridiculously high rates I might say. 6



### MR. KO ERBER: My apologies. 7



### MS. GERWIN: However, I am glad to be in 8



### Chicago, and I would like to express our group's 9



### opposition to the proposed rule. 10



### I noticed on the list of pre

- registration 11



### that the vast majority, if not all of them, 12



### appear to be in favor o f the rule. And you might 13



### ask why are there so few in opposition. I, 14



### myself, strongly debated whether it was 15



### worthwhile to come because the existing rules 16



### already make it very, very difficult, as I 17



### understand it, to start a new power plant in this 18



### countr y as a coal plant to be specific. And 19



### also, there isn't the usual legislative process. 20



### This an administrative action which many feel 21



### there really

-- it really is a done deal and so 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### no point in commenting, at least that's some of 1



### the talk that I've heard. 2



### Our feeling is that common sense would 3



### lead one to oppose this rule. Our current 4



### energy, electrical energy generation sector is 5



### not broken. Our current air is not dirty, and 6



### so, it's not broke and it doesn't need to be 7



### fixed. 8



### Meanwhile, certain subsidi es and so on 9



### continue. We believe that the government should 10



### get out of the business of manipulating the 11



### energy markets, and we support HR 3308 for that 12



### reason. Free markets will move our country 13



### toward cleaner natural gas with absolutely no 14



### cost to the taxpayer or the rate payer. 15



### In contrast, this rule will cost us a 16



### great deal. Existing rules

-- it's so new that 17



### there is actually no study as to

-- that I could 18



### find that talks about the cost. But the existing 19



### rules have already had a great impact. An d there 20



### was a piece in Fox News and I'd like to put some 21



### of this information in the record. It will be 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### easily verifiable. 1



### This is dated May 22nd, 2012, so very 2



### timely. Last week the U.S. Energy Information 3



### Administration reported a shocking drop in powe r 4



### sector coal consumption in the first quarter of 5



### 2012. Coal

- fired power plants are now generating 6



### just 36 percent of U.S. electricity versus 44.6 7



### percent just one year ago. 8



### Last week PJM Interconnection, the 9



### company that operates the electric grid for 1 3 10



### states

-- Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, 11



### Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, 12



### Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West 13



### Virginia, and the District of Columbia

-- held 14



### its 2015 capacity auction. These are the first 15



### real market pric es that take Obama's most recent 16



### anti

- coal regulations into account. And they 17



### prove that he is keeping his 2008 campaign 18



### promise to make electricity prices

-- quote

-- 19



### necessarily skyrocket

-- unquote. The market

20



### clearing price for new 2015 capacity

-- a lmost 21



### all natural gas

-- was $136 per megawatt. That's 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### eight times higher than the price for 2012, which 1



### was just $16 per megawatt. 2



### In the mid Atlantic area, covering

-- and 3



### they list the states

-- the new price is $167 per 4



### megawatt. For the northern Ohio territory served 5



### by First Energy the price is a shocking $357 per 6



### megawatt. 7



### Andy Ott from PJM stated the obvious. 8



### Quote: Capacity prices were higher than last 9



### year's because of retirements of existing coal

10



### fired generation resulting largely from 11



### en vironmental regulations which go into effect in 12



### 2015. Northern Ohio is suffering from more 13



### forced coal plant retirements than the rest of 14



### the region, hence, the even higher price. These 15



### are not computer models, or projections, or 16



### estimates. These are th e actual prices that 17



### electric distributors have agreed to pay for new 18



### capacity. The costs will be passed on to 19



### consumers at the retail level. 20



### Obviously, the impact on our 21



### manufacturing and energy

- intensive of businesses 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### will be dramatic and will have the effect

-- just 1



### common sense. It will have the effect of driving 2



### them out of business or out of our country. 3



### This will increase our deficits and 4



### decrease the prosperity of our nation. And 5



### health is more clearly related to prosperity than 6



### just about any other factor you can look at. It 7



### is a key driver of health in any society. 8



### Also, the increased cost in our electric 9



### bill

-- wait, that is one affiliation I have with 10



### a utility company is I do pay my electric bill 11



### every month

-- is an extremely regressiv e impact. 12



### It tends to impact the most vulnerable in our 13



### society more than the rest of society. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Excuse me. Could you start 15



### to wrap up? 16



### MS. GERWIN: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see 17



### the clip over there. 18



### So, I just want to wrap up by saying th at 19



### we are

-- we don't want to keep playing the 20



### energy hunger games for the same reasons that 21



### they didn't want to play the hunger games in the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### movie. We oppose this kind of draconian 1



### controls. And we don't want to sacrifice our 2



### kids' future. There is no free lunch. And at 3



### the rate we're going there will be no lunch. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 5



### Mr. Lemon? 6



### MR. LEMON: Hello. My name is Lawrence 7



### Tawneven Lemon, L

- A

- W

- R

- E

- N

- C

- E, Tawneven, T

- A

- W

8



### N

- E

- V

- E

- N, Lemon, L

- E

- M

- O

- N. I was born and 9



### raised and now res ide in Columbus, Ohio; and I am 10



### in association with the Ohio Conference of the 11



### NAACP. 12



### Two visions come to mind as I began to 13



### think of our environment from a more personal 14



### perspective. And as with almost everything in my 15



### life, my thoughts return to family . I think of 16



### my mother telling me the story of my father, 17



### originally from Kingston, Jamaica, and his first 18



### experience with snow, how amazed he was by this 19



### beautiful white stuff falling from the sky onto 20



### his brown face with his bright pure white smile 21



### matc hing the falling snowflakes. This rich 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### contrast creates a beautiful image in my mind. 1



### And though I wasn't there to witness this event, 2



### I can imagine. 3



### My second vision is a stark contrast and 4



### a very different feeling. This image is one of 5



### my future gra ndsons standing inside on a hot 6



### summer day, his smile nonexistent, yet covered 7



### with a mask to protect him from the harsh 8



### pollutants of over 30 years of unregulated 9



### greenhouse gas emissions that have destroyed the 10



### world that his grandfather and grandmother, my 11



### father and my mother, once regarded as beautiful. 12



### Though I haven't lived to see that day, I can 13



### imagine. 14



### Yet a vivid imagination is not necessary 15



### when faced with the fact that in 2006 I lost my 16



### mother, Latania Lemon. My mother, the one who 17



### nurtured m y imagination and provided me the 18



### inspiration for the vision of my father 19



### surrounded by the beautiful white stuff , her 20



### journey began with a cough. And after three 21



### years of confusion, medication, asthma and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### allergy misdiagnosis , her journey led this 1



### beauti ful, young 57

- year

- old healthy, vibrant, 2



### Christian pastor, community leader, mentor, and 3



### mother whose only stays in the hospital prior to 4



### were for the birth of her children and who hadn't 5



### smoked a day in her life to depend on an oxygen 6



### machine, that even w ith the assistance found it a 7



### burden to travel more five steps without needing 8



### to rest and catch her breath and who spent the 9



### last month of her life in a medically

- induced 10



### coma on a ventilator, surrounded by her family 11



### and loved ones. Though I witnessed h er struggle, 12



### I couldn't feel her pain, but I can imagine. 13



### It wasn't until her journey led her to 14



### one of the top medical facilities in the country, 15



### a luxury which years of education, hard work, and 16



### health insurance afforded her the ability to 17



### obtain, yet i s not common amongst the vast 18



### majority of our American families. It is here 19



### where she was diagnosed with Jo

- 1 Syndrome, a 20



### very rare autoimmune disease, though unfounded 21



### has a suspiciously close connection to the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### affects of the environment. 1



### Though the mos t frequent clinical 2



### manifestation of Jo

- 1 Syndrome is myotosis [sic] 3



### with interstitial lung disease frequently found 4



### and critical for the diagnosis. According to the 5



### National Library of Medicine, National Institutes 6



### of Health, 51 percent, 51.5 percent, ex cuse me, 7



### of the Jo

- 1 patients develop lung impairment. 8



### And Jo

- 1 disease was associated with 91 percent 9



### of interstitial lung disease. This disease 10



### describes a large group of disorders, most of 11



### which cause progressive scarring of the lung 12



### tissue, which is generally irreversible; and it 13



### eventually affects your ability to breathe and 14



### get enough oxygen into your bloodstream. 15



### Interstitial lung disease can be caused 16



### by long

- term exposure to hazardous materials such 17



### as asbestos, cigarette smoking, environmental 18



### pollution, and certain medication. It is the 19



### belief of my members of my family that the 20



### exposure to the mold, though treated, found on 21



### the outside of my mother's office to be the cause 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### of her condition and unfortunate and untimely 1



### death. 2



### Though the true cause of my mother's 3



### diagnosis of the Jo

- 1 Syndrome is still 4



### undetermined, knowing her and her love for life, 5



### family, and health, and with my increasing 6



### knowledge on emissions pollution and its effects 7



### on the environment and the health of those 8



### exposed to them, again, I can imagine. 9



### The facts surrounding the harmful effects 10



### of emissions are proven and evident by the 11



### continuing growing cases of health problems, 12



### birth defects, and deaths, and in our unusual 13



### weather, storms, and environmental conditions. 14



### So, here again, the need for an active 15



### imagination isn't necessary. Just look up. Look 16



### around, breathe, and imagine. 17



### Imagine the kind of world you see for 18



### your family's future. Imagine your life without 19



### the benefit of clean, fresh air. And imagine 20



### what t his world would be like if we decide not to 21



### take action to reduce emissions pollutions. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Imagine. 1



### Thank you. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 3



### Any clarifying questions? 4



### MR. HUTSON: My question for Ms. Gerwin 5



### is that you mentioned a report. Are you plann ing 6



### to submit that? 7



### MS. GERWIN: It's just a news article so 8



### I don't have the official PJMI report, but

-- 9



### MR. HUTSON: Okay. 10



### MS. GERWIN:

-- certainly we will 11



### probably submit

-- we're planning to submit 12



### written comments. 13



### MR. HUTSON: Written comments. Good. 14



### Okay. 15



### MS. GERWIN: I also should have mentioned 16



### that

-- I don't know if I mentioned that Illinois 17



### Wind Watch is an association of citizens and 18



### citizens groups. It's a non

- profit. It's not 19



### incorporated. It's

-- it's just an ordinary 20



### association of citizens. 21



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both for coming 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### here today. 1



### MR. LEMON: Thank you. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. I'd like to call 3



### Gary Jones. Gary Jones, I'm sorry. Cory Jones 4



### is coming up. 5



### MR. JONES: Thank you. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Jones, we're giving t he 7



### speakers five minutes each. And when you have 8



### one minute to go, I'll give you a little heads up 9



### on that. Okay? 10



### MR. JONES: Oh, thank you. 11



### MR. KOERBER: And begin whenever you're 12



### ready, sir. 13



### MR. JONES: Oh, speak now or forever hold 14



### my peace? 15



### MR. K OERBER: That's right. 16



### MR. JONES: All right. Now I'm from 17



### Joliet, so I'm surrounded by a couple antique 18



### coal plants, the Joliet Station and the Will 19



### County Station, some of the biggest carbon 20



### emitters as well as other not

- so

- pleasant 21



### materials. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### And now the issue of global warming is 1



### something that I realize has kind of fallen out 2



### of favor . It's kind of almost chic among some 3



### circles to deny it even exists, but, you know, I 4



### think it's getting more serious as the years go 5



### by. 6



### I've read a recent article where they 7



### mention some methane gas seeps up in the 8



### Antarctic. They found a bunch of new ones. And 9



### that tells me maybe the global warming issue may 10



### even

-- may even be getting worse than we think, 11



### that is

-- because if you're

-- for those 12



### unscientificall y

-- methane gas is actually a 13



### worse global warming gas than carbon dioxide

-- 14



### somewhere on the order of over 20 times worse. 15



### And then eventually it breaks down into carbon 16



### dioxide, but in the meantime, it actually traps 17



### more greenhouse gas. 18



### And when I r ead this article

-- of 19



### course, first thing I thought was, why can't we 20



### trap some of this methane gas and use it for

-- 21



### power my stove because methane gas is actually 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### pretty much is what natural gas is. But of 1



### course, that's impractical, but since the pola r 2



### ice caps are melting and the permafrost is 3



### melting, more of it is being released into the 4



### air. 5



### So, you know, it may come down to where 6



### maybe it's irreversible. There's a part of me 7



### that's saying might be fatalistic that they're

-- 8



### but still, we could m ake it a lot less as bad if 9



### we start right now to stop putting carbon dioxide 10



### into the air or other greenhouse gases. 11



### And it doesn't take much, just some small 12



### changes in our lifestyle and it would have a 13



### great effect. After all, it doesn't really have 14



### - - take that much carbon dioxide in the air. As 15



### you know, if you could feel it, you could feel 16



### it. You add a little extra carbon dioxide into 17



### the air, and you can feel the difference. 18



### So, I feel we should start

-- you know, 19



### the

-- because the global warm ing issue has been 20



### with us for quite a while. The term greenhouse 21



### effect, that's what it was called when I was a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### kid. And that's been around a while. In fact, I 1



### remember being taught about our

-- the greenhouse 2



### effect when they described our planet, com paring 3



### it to our sister planet, Venus. And I thought 4



### this was an interesting comparison that the earth 5



### and Venus are about the same size, the same mass, 6



### and roughly the same amount of carbon in the 7



### crust. The big difference is most of the carbon 8



### in the e arth's crust is in the

-- is wrapped up 9



### in limestone, even more so than in life or in 10



### fossil fuels. Well, on Venus all of the carbon 11



### is in the atmosphere. And there's a huge 12



### difference in the living conditions on the 13



### planets. You know, one

-- the temper ature and 14



### the pressure are so hot you can't even land a 15



### space probe on the surface. 16



### So, I'm just

-- interesting. I'm not 17



### saying and I don't think

-- we're a long ways 18



### away from that kind of runaway greenhouse effect, 19



### but it was an interesting comparison. 20



### Add a little bit of change now, add

-- 21



### who knows? The earth will be able to repair 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### itself. 1



### And I thank you for giving me the 2



### opportunity to either

-- to, shall we say, 3



### espouse

-- get in touch with my inner nerd and 4



### espouse some of these issues. So, I wish you

-- 5



### let's go up in this

-- did I make it within that 6



### five minutes? 7



### MR. KOERBER: You did, sir. Thirty 8



### seconds to go. 9



### MR. JONES: Yeah, right. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Do you want to use your 11



### last 30 seconds? 12



### MR. JONES: No, that's all right. 13



### MR. KOERB ER: All right. 14



### MR. JONES: Better to go under than over 15



### unless my dog has something to say. 16



### MR. KOERBER: What is your dog's name? 17



### MR. JONES: That's Cuddles. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Cuddles. 19



### MR. JONES: Woof. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Very well behaved. 21



### MR. JONES: Yes , she's a good one. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 1



### for being here today. 2



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If I may borrow 3



### his 30 seconds? One way we can all help each 4



### other

-- don't take it wrong

-- is by opening the 5



### shades and turning off the lights. Here
, here. 6



### Enjoy the sunlight which we don't have to pay for 7



### yet. And not having to build as many power 8



### plants as we otherwise do. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 10



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just a brief 11



### thought. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 13



### I'd like to

- - 14



### MR. JONES: That's one reason why my 15



### electric bill's lower than the average. 16



### [Laughter.] 17



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Cory Jones 18



### and Michael O h linger, Jr. 19



### MR. O H LINGER: Hi, I am Michael Ohlinger, 20



### M

- I

- C

- H

- A

- E

- L, O

- H

- L

- I

- N

- G

- E

- R. I am from 21



### Gurnee, Illinois. I am 17 years old, in high 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### school. I go to Warren Township High School. 1



### It is a well

- known fact that the coal 2



### power plants are great producers of a vile, toxic 3



### substance called mercury. What isn't as greatly 4



### known is that the fish of our coun try have fallen 5



### plague to this mercury. 6



### I live but a few miles away Lake Michigan 7



### and happen to be an avid fisherman. And it's 8



### nice to know that if I catch a lake trout over 27 9



### inches, a carp, or a channel catfish, it has such 10



### a high mercury content th at it is deemed unsafe 11



### to eat. It's just so depressing that we are 12



### poisoning our food, water, and air sources for 13



### nothing but greed. Our children are the future, 14



### and we are introducing so many carcinogens and 15



### toxins to their young agile minds it's not ev en 16



### funny. It just makes me mentally question what 17



### am I going to do 10 years, 20 years from now? 18



### That's it. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 20



### Ms. Jones? 21



### MS. JONES: My name is Cory Jones. I live 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### here in Illinois. Illinois is a state that 1



### produces 25 perce nt more power than it currently 2



### needs, yet at the same time Illinois is a state 3



### that has been perpetually targeted for the 4



### building of new power plants due to our 5



### significant coal reserves. Without any kind of 6



### regulation, Illinois actually would soon beco me 7



### the ashtray of the Midwest. 8



### By setting up carbon pollution 9



### protections

-- I actually

-- I congratulate the 10



### EPA for moving forward to clean up and modernize 11



### the way we power our nation. So, thank you. 12



### As the proposed standard would require 13



### new coal pl ants to incorporate technologies that 14



### reduce carbon pollution, again, I applaud the EPA 15



### for this critical first step towards curbing 16



### global warming pollution, towards protecting our 17



### public health, preserving the environment, and 18



### taking common sense steps t o secure a clean 19



### energy future for America. 20



### As the proposed carbon pollution would 21



### not affect existing power plants nor any other 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### plants that are already permitted or set to begin 1



### construction within the next year, some critics 2



### call this new standard only symbolic. These 3



### critics give the EPA credit for acknowledging 4



### global warming is a problem, but they subtract 5



### points from your kudos for not taking dramatic 6



### steps to cut the current emissions. 7



### However, I'd like to give the EPA a 8



### little bit more credit th an that assessment, 9



### which is based on a short

- term market analysis of 10



### cheap and readily accessible natural gas. Those 11



### who think the standard is only symbolic, as 12



### mentioned in the Washington Post

-- those who 13



### think the standard is only symbolic are assumin g 14



### that no new coal plants will be built due to the 15



### cost of carbon capture. However, if the price of 16



### natural gas increases, if the markets become 17



### volatile, unstable, as the 50

- year

-- quote, 18



### unquote

-- 50

- year supply that everyone is so 19



### certain that we hav e, comes into question. 20



### Illinois' vast coal reserves aren't going 21



### anywhere. They're still going to be here and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### look very attractive. This first step, 1



### implementing the standard on future carbon 2



### pollution, is very commendable. It is, however, 3



### just the fi rst step. 4



### An interesting observation about 5



### government regulations: Government regulations 6



### are often referred to as a negative, a detriment 7



### to progress, a hindrance to innovation. And I 8



### come from the Harvard side, so I hear it all the 9



### time. 10



### But perhaps the corporations that 11



### perpetuate such talk have forgotten that it was 12



### an act of government interference in 1790 that 13



### has fostered the for

- profit pursuits of new 14



### technologies. In 1790 government interference 15



### set the stage for for

- profit innovations by 16



### crea ting the modern American patent system. Our 17



### patent system signed into law by President George 18



### Washington, effectively setting parameters and 19



### limitations around the industry of product 20



### innovation. 21



### Since then our government has regulated a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### lot. Food safet y via the FDA for the safety of 1



### the food we eat, automotive safety for the cars 2



### we drive. That's been regulated, helping us 3



### making those exploding Ford Pintos a thing of the 4



### past. 5



### So, what is the controversy with clean 6



### air regulations, keeping safe the air we breathe, 7



### keeping safe the planet that all of us Democrats 8



### and Republicans depend on for survival. I 9



### advocate that clean air and clean energy 10



### regulations will encourage the development of 11



### smarter solutions to meet future energy demands. 12



### And clean a ir and clean energy regulations will 13



### protect future generations by mandating better 14



### stewardship practices of our environment. 15



### So I would argue that government 16



### regulations can actually be a positive change for 17



### the future. And that change is in your hands 18



### right now. 19



### I understand the EPA is also crafting 20



### carbon regulations for oil refineries and other 21



### stationary and pollution sources. And according 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to a Washington Post article on March 27th, all 1



### of these future rules can matter a lot, 2



### cumulatively. 3



### A 20 10 report from the World Resources 4



### Institute found that the EPA carbon rules when 5



### fully deployed could cover about three

- quarters 6



### of the country's greenhouse gas sources and 7



### reduce U.S. carbon emissions anywhere from 5 8



### percent to 12 percent below 2005 stan dards by 9



### (unintelligible) levels by 2020. 10



### So

-- but like the Washington Post 11



### article also said

-- this is from March 27th

-- 12



### this can only happen if the leadership team at 13



### EPA implements these rules and regulations to 14



### their fullest extent. So, please c onsider doing 15



### just that. 16



### So, thank you for being here today, for 17



### being part of our leadership team on the EPA; and 18



### thank you for protecting our future going 19



### forward. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 21



### being here. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Clarifying questions? 1



### MR. HUTSON: No. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 3



### I'd like to call Jocelyn Travis. When 4



### you're ready. 5



### MS. TRAVIS: Okay. Thank you. Good 6



### afternoon. My name is Jocelyn Travis, and I live 7



### in Cleveland, Ohio, which is the largest urban 8



### area of Ohio. 9



### Recently our cit y has announced that we 10



### have the highest level of asthma cases of any 11



### city in the state. Well, we can just add this to 12



### our dubious distinction of the many other issues 13



### we are confronted with such as the number one 14



### city in poverty in the country, number tw o most 15



### segregated city in the country. The fact that 16



### one of our communities in the St. Clair area, 17



### where I grew up, has the highest level of lead 18



### poisoning in the state, et cetera. 19



### In Ohio we continue to struggle with the 20



### failing economy and extremely hi gh rate of 21



### unemployment to add this to our list of woes. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Please be mindful that because of the 1



### poor economic condition we face in our city, many 2



### people don't have access to quality health care 3



### and funds for medication to help them overcome 4



### these health issues, which can occur from toxins 5



### and pollutants in our air and environment. 6



### Finally, to add insult to injury, we have 7



### an unsympathetic Ohio EPA director who is in 8



### opposition with the new federal emission rules 9



### and is working actively to disengage Ohio from 10



### being involved with the National Association of 11



### Clean Air Agencies, which would be extremely 12



### detrimental to our state. 13



### I come before you today to applaud your 14



### efforts to reduce the toxins being emitted from 15



### coal

- fired power plants with the regulation of 16



### carbon pollution standards. However, in my city 17



### of Cleveland we have the sixth worst coal

- fired 18



### power plant in the country; and we have four 19



### failing coal

- fired power plants in the State of 20



### Ohio. 21



### While these plants will be making 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### adjustments on the ne w regulations, I strongly 1



### feel that it is not enough. First Energy, the 2



### company owning all four of the failing plants in 3



### Ohio, will not meet the required regulations 4



### until 2014 and possibly 2015. The fact that 5



### these plants have gone this long emitting su ch 6



### harmful pollutants into our environment is a 7



### travesty. 8



### When I mentioned the community with 9



### children having the highest of lead poisoning in 10



### the State of Ohio, I don't think that it's a 11



### coincidence that the community is in the 12



### immediate vicinity of the power plant. What do 13



### we have to do to protect our children? 14



### The fact that many families rely on food 15



### from the fish that they are eating from Lake Erie 16



### which sits right at the base of the power plant

- 17



### - it terrifies me that we are continuing to allow 18



### thes e plants to operate at full force with no 19



### immediate plans for correction. And even at that 20



### time I truly believe that the y will be starting 21



### tactics of support from our current leadership. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### The power plant in Cleveland is not only 1



### situated by the lake, it is right next

- door to a 2



### high school. A 2011 graduate of the high school 3



### and one of our Cleveland NAACP Youth Council 4



### members who is a very intelligent and engaged 5



### young lady was asked if she was aware that her 6



### school was next

- door to the power plant. She 7



### indicated that she had no idea and was shocked

-- 8



### well, when she was made aware of the issues 9



### concerning this plant. 10



### I also contacted the city councilman from 11



### the area who was also unaware of this plant and 12



### the toxins it was emitting into the environment

. 13



### If this plant and other failing coal

- fired power 14



### plants throughout the state and country are going 15



### to be allowed to continue operating at their 16



### current level without making corrective changes 17



### for several years, it is important that the 18



### community is aware of the challenges that they 19



### are facing from these plants. 20



### The current health issues that plague our 21



### community must be acknowledged and addressed 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### immediately. And First Energy should bear 1



### responsibility for making that happen. 2



### My vision for the Clevel and area and the 3



### State of Ohio is that with the help of the EPA, 4



### First Energy, and the NAACP we embark on a two

5



### year campaign to clean up our air

-- actually, 6



### two years and longer. This could be done through 7



### an awareness education program, especially in t he 8



### area surrounding the failing power plants. 9



### It is important that this effort also 10



### involves funding for health screenings and 11



### testing for lead poisoning, asthma, cancer, and 12



### other health

- related issues resulting from the 13



### inhalation and ingesting of toxin s from coal and 14



### other chemicals used within these plants. 15



### There must also be funds available for 16



### treatment of those who have been directly 17



### affected. The more knowledge I obtain about the 18



### pollutions in our air, the more determined I am 19



### to ensure that we d o all possible to bring about 20



### a positive change. 21



### As Youth Advisor of the NAACP, I am 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### extremely concerned that we are not doing enough 1



### to clean up our air and environment. This is the 2



### time that we must all work together to make a 3



### difference in holding the energy companies and 4



### our elected officials accountable to do what is 5



### right in promoting a health community. 6



### I am very thankful to the EPA for 7



### providing me the opportunity to share my concerns 8



### about what is happening in my environment and 9



### urge you to keep up your great work in ensuring a 10



### brighter, cleaner, and safer future for 11



### generations to come. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 13



### MS. JONES: Thank you. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Any questions? 15



### [No response.] 16



### MR. KOERBER: No questions. Okay. 17



### Pardon me? 18



### UNINDENTIFIED F EMALE: Just the one. 19



### MR. KOERBER: More speaker? 20



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. 21



### MR. KOERBER: Marissa Lieberman Klein? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MS. LIEBERMAN KLEIN: Thank you for 1



### giving me the opportunity to speak today. My 2



### name is Marissa Lieberman Klein, and I am a 3



### third

- year student at the University of Chicago 4



### where I helped found Youth Chicago Climate Action 5



### Network and Chicago Youth Climate Coalition, both 6



### of which are organizations that work to stop 7



### climate change in our city, our state, and our 8



### country. 9



### I helped to crea te these organizations 10



### because I think that climate change is the single 11



### largest problem affecting my generation. If we 12



### don't stop global climate change, then eventually 13



### none of the other problems will matter because in 14



### 50 years or so there won't be any w orld left to 15



### be affected. 16



### There's been a lot of talk about my 17



### generation and especially about how it's up to us 18



### to fight for the world that we want. And many of 19



### us are doing just that, but in the end what we 20



### want is a world to fight for, a world that wil l 21



### exist in 50 and 100 years, a world for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### generations to come, not a world too hot to live 1



### in or one ravaged by drought, rising sea levels, 2



### and climate wars, and refugees. 3



### I'm from Long Island, New York, a place 4



### practically at sea level. If we allow clima te 5



### change to continue and allow the sea levels to 6



### rise, Long Island and New York City will be under 7



### water. So will many other parts of the world, 8



### all just as important as New York is. 9



### My father's already talking about how 10



### when he retires, he needs to buy some land that 11



### won't be under water when sea levels rise, won't 12



### be in a future drought area, and won't be too hot 13



### as the world warms up. He wants the house to 14



### sustain itself, make its own electricity, have a 15



### greenhouse, and a garden to grow food, the wor ks. 16



### And when I graduate, he hopes that I'll move 17



### somewhere similar so I'll always have somewhere 18



### to live. We're thinking Quebec, Canada, near 19



### Montreal. 20



### I don't think that I should have to use 21



### rising temperature and sea levels as well as 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### droughts to deter mine where I live in the future. 1



### I shouldn't need to do that because my government 2



### hasn't done enough to stop these things from 3



### occurring. Climate change is already happening; 4



### although we can stop it from becoming disastrous, 5



### but my generation and I can't do it alone. We 6



### don't yet have the power to set regulations, for 7



### example; but you, at the EPA, do. 8



### Passing a carbon emissions standard on 9



### proposed power plants is a really good first 10



### step, but it's just that, a first step. I'm glad 11



### that the EPA is pass ing a standard that focuses 12



### on carbon dioxide, clearly showing that it 13



### believes climate change is happening and that we 14



### need to do something about it. That's good, but 15



### we need to do more. We need the strongest 16



### regulations we can get. The world won't wai t for 17



### everyone to agree on what to do. 18



### We need to take strong, decisive action 19



### to stop climate change. That's why this 20



### regulation should be as strong as possible and do 21



### as much as it can to stop carbon dioxide from 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### being emitted. Even if that's not popu lar, it's 1



### right; and that's what matters. If industry or 2



### politicians don't want it to be that strong, I 3



### think that's just too bad. They may not be here 4



### in 50 years. I and my generation will, and we 5



### want the toughest regulations on greenhouse gases 6



### and c limate change that we can get. 7



### Thank you. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 9



### MR. WELCH: Thank you. Lyman Welch. Hi. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Good afternoon. 11



### MR. WELCH: Good afternoon. My name is 12



### Lyman Welch, and that's spelled L

- Y

- M

- A

- N. The 13



### last name is W

- E

- L

- C

- H

. And I appreciate you 14



### holding the public hearing and allow us to come 15



### in and speak with you about this proposed rule. 16



### I'm here today to support the rule. I 17



### think this is a reasonable to control greenhouse 18



### gas emissions from coal plants. It's long 19



### overdu e. We have had a decision from the Supreme 20



### Court that gives EPA certainty that it has the 21



### authority to regulate carbon emissions from coal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### plants. And it's high time that EPA take this 1



### step. 2



### Most scientists in the world agree that 3



### climate change is a re ality. The actions that we 4



### take putting pollutants into the air will affect 5



### not only our life here on earth but generations 6



### to come. We need to take steps now to reduce the 7



### harm that we are doing by putting these 8



### pollutants into the air. 9



### Everyone breath es the air. We all enjoy 10



### having clean air and having a climate that we can 11



### live in. We need to be working towards a 12



### sustainable economy and environment. I like to 13



### enjoy wild places where I can hike, where I can 14



### be outdoors and see glaciers. If I go to the 15



### Glacier National Park, for example, I'd like to 16



### be able to see the glaciers that the park is well 17



### known for. 18



### With global warming and climate change I 19



### am concerned that I and generations after me will 20



### not be able to enjoy that natural beauty. The 21



### more pollutants that we put into the air, the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### more we impact our climate in ways that we may 1



### not even know the true impact until years into 2



### the future, can be truly devastating. This 3



### regulation is necessary. 4



### Voluntary measures have certainly not 5



### proven eff ective with coal plants. We have 6



### hundreds of new coal

- fired power plants that are 7



### being proposed to be built. Regulations need to 8



### be in effect to establish a common measurement 9



### and common regulation. 10



### You specifically asked for comments on 11



### the standard f or the emissions limit for carbon 12



### dioxide. I would urge you to look towards the 13



### strongest limit possible. If the 950 pounds of 14



### CO 2 

### per megawatt hour is justified, you should 15



### impose that more stringent requirement in the 16



### regulation. 17



### You also asked about allowing an 18



### affirmative defense for the 30

- year

- averaging 19



### compliant option. I don't see how you can 20



### justify or need to have an affirmative defense 21



### for that provision. The coal plants need to be 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

Washington: (202) 898

- 1108 / Baltimore: (410) 752

- 3376 Toll Free: (888) 445

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### in compliance with this regulation. 1



### Penalties and fines can be adjusted 2



### through enforcement discretion, and you should 3



### not add additional affirmative defenses and ways 4



### for the companies to further litigate and avoid 5



### the requirements that they need to comply with 6



### here. 7



### So, in conclusion, I want to firmly 8



### support EPA's efforts to develop and implement a 9



### strong rule and a reasonable one such as you've 10



### proposed here today. This is a good start. As a 11



### country and a nation we need to do more to work 12



### towards a more sustainable world to move our 13



### economy into the next g eneration of power. The 14



### United States can be at the forefront of 15



### technology by working to build new technologies 16



### that address greenhouse gas emissions and climate 17



### change. And we shouldn't be using old out

- dated 18



### technologies from the last century. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Any clarifying 21



### questions? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### [No response.] 1



### MR. WELCH: Oh, I'm sorry. 2



### MR. KOERBER: No. I think we're good. 3



### Thank you, sir. 4



### MR. WELCH: Okay. Thanks. 5



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We do not have any 6



### speakers present, so we will be on break until at 7



### least 2:00 o'clock. So if people want to get up 8



### and stretch, feel free to do so. 9



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But there are 10



### speakers in the next room if you want to listen 11



### to those. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Yes. They'll be ongoing in 13



### the next room

. 14



### [Break from 1 : 58 p.m. to 4 :0 0 p.m.] 15



### MR. KOERBER: The time is approximately 16



### 4:00 p.m. We have no further speakers for our 17



### session. I, therefore, close this session, and 18



### we are recessed for the day. Thank you. 19



### [Whereupon, at 4 :0 1 p.m., the Public 20



### He aring was concluded.] 21



### - - - 22