UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

IN THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: JAMES JUAQUINN JORDAN, RESPONDENT. DOCKET NO. FAA-2015-0205

_____________________________________________________

TELECONFERENCE HEARING BEFORE THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 14,2015 10:01 A.M. HISTORIC JORDAN SPRINGS 1160 JORDAN SPRINGS ROAD STEPHENSON, VIRGINIA 22656IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 2

1 APPEARANCES 2 ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF, 3 FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: 4 REBECCA A. HOLMES, ESQUIRE 5 FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 6 2601 MEACHAM BOULEVARD 7 FORT WORTH, TEXAS 76137 8 TELEPHONE: 817.222.5065 9 FACSIMILE: 817.222.5945 10 E-MAIL: REBECCA.A.HOLMES@FAA.GOV 11 12 ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT, 13 JAMES JUAQUIN JORDAN: 14 PRO SE 15 11980 CARRIAGE PARK LANE 16 JOHNS CREEK, GEORGIA 30097 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 3

1 TELECONFERENCE HEARING 2 WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 14, 2015 3 10:01 A.M. 4 THE COURT: Good morning, this is Judge 5 Sullivan. Do I have Ms. Holmes on the line? 6 MS. HOLMES: Yes, Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: And Mr. Jordan? 8 MR. JORDAN: Yes, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: And I should also have an Andrea 10 Mikus from the County Court Reporters? 11 COURT REPORTER: Yes, Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: And Ms. Mikus, are you ready? 13 COURT REPORTER: I am, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: We're on the record in the 15 matter of James Joaquin Jordan. This is Docket Number 16 FAA-2015-0205. Today is Wednesday, October 14, 2015, 17 and the parties have reconvened for a litigation 18 scheduling conference. The Federal Aviation 19 Administration, which I'll hereinafter refer to by its 20 initials, the FAA, is represented by its attorney of 21 record, Ms. Rebecca Holmes. Also sitting in as an 22 observer with Ms. Holmes is Ms. Emily Tueller, an FAA 23 attorney. 24 The pro se respondent, Mr. James Joaquin 25 Jordan, is present representing himself. And theIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 4

1 parties have convened for the first time since 2 appearing before the Court on August 4, 2015, for the 3 initially scheduled Rule 16 litigation scheduling 4 conference. 5 As noted by the record, on August 4, 2015, 6 immediately after the conference concluded, an order 7 setting certain scheduling deadlines and continuing 8 the litigation scheduling conference was filed. In 9 essence, that order provided for the parties to 10 exchange some discovery before today's date and time, 11 and to utilize the time to do some research in terms 12 of defenses. 13 So why don't I turn to you first, Ms. 14 Holmes, and ask if you were able to serve Mr. Jordan 15 by email on or before August 7, 2015, with a copy of 16 the relevant portions of the FAA sanction guidance as 17 directed by the Court on August 4, 2015. 18 MS. HOLMES: Yes, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Ms. Holmes? 20 MS. HOLMES: Yes, Your Honor, I was able to. 21 THE COURT: Then I'll turn to you, Mr. 22 Jordan, and ask you if you were able to provide to the 23 FAA on or before August 24, 2015, pursuant to this 24 order, any and all information that you thought would 25 be helpful to your potential financial defense. DidIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 5

1 that get done? 2 MR. JORDAN: Yes, Your Honor, I did provide 3 the information to the FAA before August 24th. 4 THE COURT: Okay, great. Then let's talk 5 about the status of the case at this point. Ms. 6 Holmes, turning to you, are we at a point now where we 7 should be setting a motion schedule for venue issues, 8 or is there something else that we need to discuss 9 today before that? 10 MS. HOLMES: Your Honor, at the end of last 11 week Mr. Jordan agreed to settle with the agency. 12 THE COURT: So what's the status of your 13 settlement negotiations? Have you concluded all the 14 paperwork? Is that going to be sent to the Court 15 soon? What's your status? 16 MS. HOLMES: The settlement paperwork that I 17 need to complete within the agency, we've gone to the 18 new program, the national enforcement program, and 19 there seems to be more paperwork than there used to 20 be. So I'm in the process of completing that to send 21 to Mr. Jordan for completion. It is going to be, the 22 settlement is going to require a promissory note, so I 23 have to complete all of that paperwork, and that 24 paperwork is in process right now to be sent to Mr. 25 Jordan.IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 6

1 I have not completed any paperwork to file 2 with the Court, and when we spoke last week, I 3 explained to Mr. Jordan that the Court would be able 4 to explain to him what the process was for him to 5 withdraw. 6 THE COURT: Well, let's talk a little bit 7 about some of this news that you're giving to me, 8 which I'm unaware. So you were telling me that 9 there's a new process for settlements. Can you tell 10 me a little bit more about that just so that I know? 11 MS. HOLMES: There's just additional 12 paperwork. The paperwork that we used to complete, 13 which would just be the order and in this case a 14 promissory note, there is additional paperwork now 15 that needs to be completed under the new program. 16 It's basically the same information, it's just 17 repeated a couple of times. 18 We've got, of course, the order and the 19 promissory note, and then we also have the settlement 20 agreement and the confess judgment note that also 21 needs to be completed. And then we provide 22 information on electronic payments and penalties. 23 THE COURT: And when did this new program go 24 into effect? 25 MS. HOLMES: I believe it was sometime inIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 7

1 August. I don't remember the exact date. The FAA 2 switched, the General Counsel's office switched to a 3 national enforcement program where we have particular 4 attorneys assigned to the national enforcement 5 program. 6 THE COURT: What does that mean? 7 MS. HOLMES: There are certain attorneys in 8 each region that work only for enforcement. 9 THE COURT: Okay. As opposed to what? 10 MS. HOLMES: As opposed to general practice. 11 Generally, the southwest region was set up a little 12 differently, but the regions across the United States, 13 all the attorneys were general attorneys and handled 14 personnel enforcement, acquisitions, kind of across 15 the board. Anything that came in. Whereas now, we 16 have a separate program for just the enforcement 17 attorneys. 18 THE COURT: And when you say the enforcement 19 attorneys, are you talking about attorneys who do 20 litigation before this office, the NTSB, and the 21 Federal District Court, or are you talking about 22 something else? 23 MS. HOLMES: Yes, they will handle, they 24 handle only matters dealing with enforcement for the 25 FAA versus handling generic practice.IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 8

1 THE COURT: Okay. So again, when you talk 2 about specific enforcement attorneys, are you saying 3 that you're scheduling or you're setting up a program 4 where you have litigation specialists as opposed to 5 everyone being a generalist, or is it something other 6 than that? 7 MS. HOLMES: It's not necessarily just 8 litigation. They are, the attorneys that are assigned 9 to the national enforcement program are specific to 10 enforcement. It's not necessarily just the litigation 11 portion of enforcement. It's the compliance and 12 litigation, all areas of the enforcement program. 13 THE COURT: So does that mean that you are 14 now an enforcement specialist, or are you just 15 finishing up some of your cases before enforcement is 16 routed somewhere else? 17 MS. HOLMES: I am finishing up cases that I 18 was working on before the program went into effect. 19 Ms. Tueller is an enforcement attorney. 20 THE COURT: Okay, well that's helpful to 21 know. Thank you very much. Now, in terms of this 22 particular case, knowing what you know with all the 23 paperwork that is before you, how long do you think it 24 will take you to get all of the material to Mr. Jordan 25 for his review and signature?IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 9

1 MS. HOLMES: I'm hoping to have him the 2 material and all of the paperwork by next week. 3 THE COURT: And next week would be on or 4 about the 23rd of October, 2015, or some other date? 5 MS. HOLMES: No, the 23rd would be 6 acceptable. 7 THE COURT: And then, Mr. Jordan, how long 8 do you think it would take you to read that paperwork 9 and return it to Ms. Holmes after reading and perhaps 10 even calling her and asking questions if you had any? 11 MR. JORDAN: Your Honor, I should be able to 12 read and make any phone calls if I need to within a 13 week of receipt of the information. 14 THE COURT: And a week after Friday, October 15 23rd, 2015, would be October 30, 2015. Does that 16 sound about right to you? 17 MR. JORDAN: Yes, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: What I'm hearing from Ms. Holmes 19 is that she would like you, Mr. Jordan, to file a 20 written notice of withdrawal of your claim, or your 21 request for hearing. Are you familiar with that 22 particular document? 23 MR. JORDAN: Your Honor, I am not familiar. 24 THE COURT: Ms. Holmes, let me ask you a 25 question. Is there some reason why you could not fileIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 10

1 a notice that the parties have fully settled the 2 matter and it could be dismissed after you receive Mr. 3 Jordan's materials? 4 MS. HOLMES: Well, Your Honor, the way this 5 always worked for us is that the person who filed for 6 the hearing is the one who withdraws. So that's why I 7 assumed he would need to withdraw. 8 THE COURT: Well, he doesn't necessarily 9 need to do that. And typically with pro se litigants, 10 I've had the FAA file a notice that the parties have 11 settled and requesting an order of dismissal. So do 12 you have a sample notice of withdrawal that you could 13 send to Mr. Jordan that he could copy? If so, that 14 would make it much more likely that I would receive 15 something in due course. If not, then it would be 16 perhaps more expeditious if you would simply send me a 17 notice that the parties have settled and request an 18 order of dismissal. What's your preference? 19 MS. HOLMES: Your Honor, we've never, as I 20 said, the two of us who are sitting in here have never 21 filed anything to, for the Court to withdraw the case. 22 So I do not have any samples of a withdrawal letter, 23 nor do I have, nor have we ever, in essence, withdrawn 24 the case on our side. So I'm not entirely sure. 25 THE COURT: I didn't ask you to withdraw.IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 11

1 I'm asking you if you could notify me that the parties 2 have settled. So you're not withdrawing the complaint 3 since you're settling the complaint. You can always 4 notify me that the parties have settled and move for 5 an order of dismissal on the grounds that you've 6 settled the case. So essentially you're asking me to 7 resolve the matter short of hearing, and I'm happy to 8 do that. 9 When you're dealing with someone who's pro 10 se, my experience has been, with other regional 11 offices at least, the FAA has issued a notice of 12 settlement and a request for an order of dismissal. 13 Do you have contact with other regional attorneys 14 outside of your area? 15 MS. HOLMES: Yes, Your Honor, I can 16 certainly ask the supervisor in that area as well. 17 THE COURT: I don't necessarily have a 18 preference as to which party notifies me, but my 19 experience has been in these cases that when a pro se 20 litigant is involved, it's much, much faster and more, 21 how do I want to say this, I get more accurate 22 paperwork if the attorney who is handling the 23 settlement simply notifies me that the parties have 24 settled and that the case may be dismissed. 25 But I will leave that up to you. And I canIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 12

1 set this matter back, I can basically put a deadline 2 to get receipt of such a document from someone. And 3 if there's no receipt, then the case remains open. So 4 I'm just trying to make sure that I can get something 5 out as soon as possible. 6 MS. HOLMES: I will certainly work on a 7 document, Your Honor. I will have to review, because 8 I believe our settlement notices, part of the 9 settlement agreement is that the case will be 10 withdrawn by the respondent. 11 THE COURT: Well, you certainly can make 12 that agreement. But if your friend across the aisle 13 doesn't know what to do and you don't have any 14 document to show him how to do it, it becomes a very 15 prolonged experience for this Court to get an order of 16 dismissal out. So it may be helpful for your client 17 to consider the possibility of following, or following 18 your counterparts in other regions' excellent practice 19 of simply notifying the Court that you've reached a 20 settlement that all the documents have been filed and 21 that you want the Court to dismiss the case. 22 MS. HOLMES: Your Honor, I will get a 23 document to you for that purpose. 24 THE COURT: In the alternative, basically 25 what you're doing is that you're calendaring aIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 13

1 deadline hoping that your friend across the aisle can 2 meet it. And if that's the case, ideally you would be 3 assisting someone who's not experienced with putting 4 together that paperwork and properly serving it to 5 everybody, which may end up being more time than it 6 would take for you to just file your notice yourself. 7 But it's up to you. 8 Let me ask you both, in terms of a deadline, 9 today is October 14, 2015, and in your best estimates 10 you think you'll have your settlement done by October 11 30, 2015. If I tick this matter on my calendar for 12 November 13, 2015, for either a notice of withdrawal 13 or a notice of settlement, would that be sufficient 14 time for the two of you to have notice in writing sent 15 to the Court, however you choose to do it? Starting 16 with you, Ms. Holmes. 17 MS. HOLMES: Yes, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: And Mr. Jordan? 19 MR. JORDAN: Yes, Your honor. 20 THE COURT: Then I will tick this case on my 21 calendar for November 13, 2015, for receipt of some 22 notice from the parties about the request for 23 dismissal. That means that I am not going to go 24 forward with setting the matter for any kind of 25 hearing or motion. It also means that we will not beIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 14

1 reconvening by telephone at this time. 2 If I don't receive anything by November 13, 3 2015, I'll basically issue an order requesting a 4 status report from you. But I'm presuming that that's 5 not going to happen. I say that simply because one 6 out of 100 cases has something go awry, and when that 7 happens, I follow up. 8 Ms. Holmes, just so that you have someone to 9 chat with or have your supervisor chat with, I know in 10 the northeast region, Mr. Burman with the FAA would be 11 familiar with this particular practice that I've 12 talked about. And in the southeast region, in the 13 Atlanta region, Mr. Stevenson I think would also be 14 familiar. If that would be helpful to you. 15 MS. HOLMES: Thank you, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: You're welcome. So, with that, 17 on behalf of the FAA, Ms. Holmes, is there anything 18 else that we need to address for you and your client 19 today? 20 MS. HOLMES: No, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Mr. Jordan, on behalf of 22 yourself, anything else we need to address for you 23 today? 24 MR. JORDAN: No, Your Honor. Thank you. 25 THE COURT: Okay, then I will congratulateIN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 15

1 you both on your settlement negotiations. I'll wish 2 you the best in looking at all the paperwork that you 3 have to go through and exchanging it with each other. 4 And I look forward to getting either a notice of 5 settlement and/or a request to withdraw on or before 6 November 13, 2015. And Ms. Holmes, if this is the 7 only time I will see you if your job duties have 8 changed and you will no longer be in the enforcement 9 division, I will thank you very much for your 10 representation before this Court and wish you the best 11 in your career. And I will ... 12 MS. HOLMES: Thank you, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: You're welcome. And I will look 14 forward to litigation from your substitute or 15 replacement in the near future. With that, it appears 16 our business is complete. I'm going to thank you all 17 very much again for your time. We can go off the 18 record, and I wish you all a good day. Thank you so 19 much. 20 (WHEREUPON, the hearing was concluded at 10:19 a.m.) 21 22 23 24 25IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 16

1 STIPULATION 2 3 The foregoing matter was taken on the date, and at 4 the time and place set out on the title page hereof. 5 6 It was requested that the matter be taken by the 7 reporter and that the same be reduced to typewritten 8 form. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 251 2 3 4

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25 24 23 22 **CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER AND SECURE ENCRYPTED**

I, **Andrea F. Mikus** , do hereby certify that the foregoing matter was reported by stenographic and/or mechanical means, that same was reduced to written form, that the transcript prepared by me or under my direction, is a true and accurate record of same to the best of my

This transcript and certificate have been digitally the action filed or its outcome. knowledge and ability; that there is no relation nor

parties hereto, nor financial or otherwise interest in employment by any attorney or counsel employed by the

Court Reporter **SIGNATURE AND DELIVERY OF CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT**

signed and securely delivered through our encryption

server. IN WITNESS HEREOF, I have here unto set my hand this day of , .

**Andrea F. Mikus** 16th OCTOBER 2015IN RE: JAMES J. JORDAN October 14, 2015 VR # 2618-2 Page 18

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