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### -EFV\RTMENTO F

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### FEDERA L AVIATIONADMINISTRATIO N

I NTH E MATTE RO F BRUNILD AROS A FA ADocke t N o [To b e assigned ] FDM S No . FAA- 2 01I-06 6 9 Wednesday , Novembe r 9 , 2 01 1 Th e above-entitle dmatte r cam e o n fo r pre-hearin g teleconferenc e a t 10:0 0 a.m .

BEFORE : TH E HONORABL E J.E . Administrativ e La wJudg e SULLIVAN ,



### NO V2 I 201 ! 

# HEAWW G DOCKE T

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR
. GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W : WASHINGTON , D. C 20005-370 1 www.nealrgro5S.co mAPPEARANCES :
O nBehal f o f .th

e Responden t BRUNILD AROSA , pr o s e 208 4 Bron xPlac e Eas t Apt . 5 J Bronx , N Y1046 2 (347 ) 321-323 9

O nBehal f o f th e Complainan_^ : RYTiJS r LANDERS , ESQ . of : Offic e o f th e Regiona l Counse l Souther nRegio n P.O . Bo x2063 6 Atlanta , G A3032 0 (404 ) 305-520 0 (404 ) 305-522 3 (Fax )



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2 3 4 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G- S 10:2 7 a.m .

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2. 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : We'r e o nth e

recor di nth e matte r o f Brunild a Rosa . Thi s i s a nFA Adocke t tha t ha s no t ye t bee n assigned , bu t th e FDM S numbe r i s FAA~2"01"r^ " 0669 . Toda yi s Wednesday , Novembe r 9 , 2011 , an dth e partie s hav e convene db ytelephon e fo r a litigatio nschedulin g conference .

T h e Federa l Aviatio n Administratio ni s represente dby ' Rya nM . Lander s th e attorne yo f record .

Fo r th e purpose s o f thi s proceeding

- I wil l b e referrin g t o th e Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio na s th e FA Afro m henceforth . Th e responden t Brunild a Ros a i s presen t an dactin g pr o se .

Folks , wh ydon' t w e tal k abou t a fev / preliminar ymatter s befoi' e w e ge t int o an y mea t o f th e case .

Ms . Rosa , ar e yo u plannin g t o

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2 3 4 5

1 ? 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 represen t yoursel f i nthi s proceedin g o r ar e

yo u i nth e proces s o f tryin g t o obtai na n attorne yt o hel p you ?

M S . ROSA : No , I' mrepresentin g myself , I a mno t i nth e proces s o f gettin g counsel , a lawyer . ' "

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Ther e wa s
a littl e nois e o nm yphone , s o I wasn' t sur e whethe r yo u sai dyo u wer e o r yo u wer e not ?

MS . ROSA : I' msorry , I' msorrv JUDG E SULLIVAM : Ther e wa s a littl e bi t o f nois e o nm yphon e whe nyo u wer e talking , s o I' mno t quit e sur e wha t yo u said . Coul dyo u repea t it ?

MS . ROSA : Okay . I' mrepresentin g
m vself . JUDG E SULLIVZ\N : Okay . Hav e yo u ha dexperienc e representin g yoursel f i na tria l proceedin g before ?

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Wha t othe r kind s o f proceeding s hav e yo u represente dyoursel f

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2 3 4 5 6

. 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 in , jus t s o tha t I know ? MS . ROSA : Vjell , a s a matte r o f fac t I a m

- - custod ybattle , family'-

- famil y
rssues . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . An djus t fo r ou r cour t reporte r coul dyou ' s"^^a]-r~a " littl e slowe r s o tha t h e ca n- -

MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - ge t everythin g down . MS . ROSA : Okay .

JUDG E SULLIVA N You'r e representiri g yoursel f i na famil yla wmatte r i t sound s like ?

MS . ROSA : Yes , ma'am . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Hav e yo u actuall ybee ni ntria l o ntha t matte r o r ar e yo u basicall ygoin g t o th e Famil yLau ' Cour t
an darguin g motion s befor e th e judge ?

MS . ROSA : Well , I' mgoin g - - there' s differen t type s o f - - le t m e see , ho w ca nI explai nthis. '



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### 1

2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I d o hav e a lawye r fo r on e par t o f

th e --o f th e temporar ycustod yan dal l that , orde r o f protectio nan dal l that . Bu t I hav e

- - I hav e fo r example , I ha dlas t v;ee k I wa s als o i ncour t fo r another , yo u kno wpaternit y issu e which , yo u kno wI sai d- - m y'lawyer ^ wasn' t present , an dh e wasn' t - - on e thin g didn' t hav e nothin g t o d o wit hth e othe r one , becaus e on e - ~ I hav e - - w e 0 0bac k i n Septembe r w e wen t fo r th e - - foi * th e chil d custod yissue . An dthe nther e wa s a nattorne y appointe dt o m e fro mth e city , whic hI wasn' t v;orking , s o tha t vja s i nwhol e an dit' s i nth e proces s o f yo u know , continue .

An dno wI wen t bac k o nThursda yo r Frida ylas t v/eek , I don ' t reall yremembe r exactl yvjha

t day , an dthe nI ha dt o d o i t o n m yownand , yo u know , I gues s that'sit . I mean , the yadjoui"ne dth e cas e bu t I gues s tha t section , yo u kno wI -- I didn' t ge t a lawye r fo r that . An dI said , "Wel l it' s a simpl e thing. " an dI just , yo u kno wexpose dmy

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### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 1323 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W
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3 4 5

7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . S o you'v e

ha dsom e cour t appearance s i nFamil yCour t i t sound s like ?

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDGE~SULLIVAN- ^ Airl—right-r-—But

fro m v;hat you'v e tol dm e i t doesn' t soun dlik e yo u hav e a lo t o f experience ?

MS . ROSA : Definitel ynot . I' m no t a lav^^ye

r an dI don' t - - yo u kno wI mea n yo u jus t - - yo u kno w- -

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . MS . ROSA : - - I mean . JUDG E SULLIVAN : No , tha t jus t kin do f give s m e a nide a o f wha t you r backgroun di s i n- -

MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - i nth e field . D o yo u understan dtha t i nthi s kin do f proceedin g i t ca nge t somewha t comple x i f yo u decid e t o contes t everything ?

MS . ROSA : Yes , ma ' am , I know , I

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2 3 4 5 S 7 do .

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3

. 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . That' s no t

t o sa ytha t yo u shouldn' t contes t everything , you'r e welcom e t o d o that .

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Bu t I " would^HaVe '
an . expectatio no f yo u tha t yo u woul dd o a lo t
o f homewor k - -

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - mak e sur e tha t yo u kno wwha t you'r e doing . S o - -

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - yo u hav e no t ye t file da writte nanswe r t o th e complaint ?

MS . ROSA : No , I haven't . JUDG E SULLIVAN : D o yo u kno wwha t
a answ^e r

is ? MS . ROSA : Yes. . JUDG E SULLIVAN ; Okay . MS . ROSA : Hello ? JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes , I' maskin g yo u t o explai nt o m e wha t yo u understan da

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- 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 . 2 0 2 1 2 2 writte nanswe r t o be ? MS . ROSA : Explai nt o yo u v/ha t a writte nanswe r shoul dbe ?

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes , essentiall y yo u hav e a nobligatio nt o fil e a writte n response T MS . ROSA : Okay . Whic hI have .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Actuall yyo u hav e
no t . MS . ROSA : Okay . I haven' t - - wel l it' s bee ns o long . I hav e - - I hav e sen t
s o man ypaper s t o Mr . Lander s an dexplainin g
m y- - m ycase . Bu t I gues s no t i f yo u sai d tha t haven't , yo u kno wanswered . An dwel l a t thi s momen t I just , yo u know , jus t v/ant t o ge t thi s ove r wit han d- • • wel l I don' t - - I don' t understan dwha t a nanswe r is ?

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Whateve r privat e correspondenc e tha t you'v e bee nhavin g wit hMr . Lander s - -

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : 

### it' s no t

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 somethin g that' s i nm yfile , MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o - - MR . LANDERS : Ma yI interject , You r Honor ? Thi s i s Rva nLanders ?

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes , juTs' t a ' moment , Mr . Landers .

MR . LANDERS' : Oka y. JUDG E SULLIVAN : Than k you . So
- yo u ma yhav e ha dmultipl e conversation s o r sen t multipl e letter s t o Mr . Landers , an dI don' t necessaril yse e an yo f that . S o what ' s i nm yfil e righ t no wi s a Notic e o f Complain t tha t Mr . Lander s signed .

MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : You'r e on e pag e Reques t fo r Hearing , whic hyo u signed .

MS . ROSA : Al l righf . JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dthe nmy Notic e o f Scheduling

- thi s telephon e conference , whic hI signed .

MS . ROSA : Okay .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : M yfil e i s ver y

thin . No whavin g sai dthat , Mr . Landers , yo u ha dsomethin g t o say , sir ?

MR . LANDERS : Yes , ma'am . T o clarify , you'r e righ t tha t w e hav e - - Ms . Ros a
an dI hav e bee ni nsettlemen t negoti"artri"on r sinc e sh e file dhe r appeal . An da s o f thi s mornin g whe nsh e calle dme , Xthin k w e hav e reache da settlemen t . I don ' t kno wi f yo u wan t
u s t o discus s tha t no wbefor e w e g o forwar do r i f yo u woul drathe r u s g o forwar dv/it h schedulin g th e conferencin g cas e fo r whateve r reaso nth e settlemen t fall s through .

I jus t wante dt o rais e tha t an d
se e ho wyo u v;oul dlik e fo r u s t o procee dwit h th e res t o f thi s - -

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . MR . LANDERS : - - telephoni c conference . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Than k you .

Typicall yI prefe r no t t o b e involve di nth e parties ' privat e settlemen t

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 conference s becaus e I thin k yo u hav e a righ t

t o hav e som e privac yfo r those .

MS . ROSA : Okay . MR . LANDERS : I agree . •JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dthe ni f yo u "d^^ . reac hsettlement , th^ nth"a:t' s fin e yo u ca nalway s g o t o tria l o r t o hearin g o nth e issu e o nth e merits . Bu t wha t probabl ywoul d
wor k bes t i f th e tw o o f yo u ar e communicatin g abou t a settlemen t i s fo r u s t o loo k a t ou r calendar s an dchoos e a ne wdat e fo r th e litigatio nschedulin g conference . An dthe n betwee nno wan dth e ne wdat e i f yo u reac ha settlement , yo u ca nfil e you r settlemen t paper s wit hm e an dthe nI ca nissu e th e appropriat e orde r whic hwoul dals o cance l th e nex t conferenc e date .

MR . LANDERS : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : So , Mr . Landers-

- MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - ho wmuc htim e d o yo u thin k yo u migh t nee di ndiscussin g thi s

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### 1

2 3 4

. 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 matte r privatel ywit hMs . Rosa ? MR . LANDERS : Fro mou r discussion s thi s morning , I thin k byth e en do f thi s wee k
w e shoul dhav e thi s finalize da s t o wha t w e bot har e agreein g to .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . A"hd~'i"i r term s o f th e paperwor k tha t yo u migh t sen dt o thi s office , ho wmuc htim e d o yo u thin k yo u woul dnee dt o hav e Ms . Ros a tak e a loo k a t it , sig nof f o nit , ge t i t bac k t o yo u an dthe n sen dsomethin g t o me ?

MR . LANDERS : Assumin g tha t w e hav e a nagreemen t o nFriday , I v/ouldge t th e paperwor k i nth e mai l Frida yafternoo nt o M s . Rosa , wh o I believ e i s up i nNe wYork . I' mi n Atlant a s o sh e woul dprobabl yhav e i t o n Monday . An dthe nI gues s wha t w e woul dd o i s I woul dhav e he r sig nsom e sor t o f promissor y not e o r whatno t a s par t o f th e settlemen t . S o i t woul djus t b e ho wlon g i t too k he r t o complet e tha t an dge t i t bac k t o me .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay .

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1 2 3 4 5 — 6

- 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Ms . Rosa , knowin g you r schedul e

how'muc htim e v;oul dyo u need , i nyou r opinion , t o rea dcarefull yal l th e paperwor k tha t Mr . Lander s i s talkin g abou t sendin g t o you , an d the nsig nit , pu t i t bac k i nth e mai l t o hi m "i"f~rn~ f act—you—choose—to—sign—i-t-?-

——

MS . ROSA : I gues s I - - I ca nge t i t bac k i na week .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Folks , thi s Frida yi s a federa l holiday . S o eve n- -

MS . ROSA : Yes , i t is . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . Eve ni f - - MR . LANDERS : Sorry , You r Honor , I forgo t abou t that .

MS . ROSA : Sorry , yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . Eve ni f yo u starte dt o mai l thing s o nFriday , i t wouldn' t quit e g o ou t o nFriday . S o let' s tak e a loo k at : ou r calendars . An dI' mgoin g t o giv e yo u alittl e bi t o f a cushio no f tim e becaus e o f th e Thanksgivin g holida yan dthos e kind s o f things . Wh ydon' t w e rese t thi s litigatio n

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### 1 5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 7 conferenc e fo r Thursday, Decembe r 1st . That' s abou t thre e week s away , bu t yo u ar e als o lookin g a t Thanksgivin g an dth e holida ythi s Frida ys o it' s actuall yno t tha t lon g o f a perio do f time.

Mr . Landers , startin g wit hyou r calenda r d o yo u hav e tim e o nThursday , Decembe r 1s t fo r a secon dtelephon e conferenc e i nth e even t tha t yo u an dMs . Ros a don' t reac h
a settlement ?

MR . LANDERS : Yes , You r Honor , I
amope na t anytim e tha t day .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Ms . Rosa , knowin g you r calenda r lookin g a t Decembe r 1st , d o yo u hav e tim e availabl e o ntha t da y.t o reconven e i f i nfac t yo u don' t reac ha settlement ?

MS . ROSA : Yes , You r Honor , I hav e time. JUDG E SULLIVAN : D o yo u hav e any particula r tim e durin g th e da ytha t i s a blackou t tim e wher e -yo u ca nno t come ?

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 I S 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MS . ROSA : No , no , no , no , no .

No , thi s tim e i s fine , aroun dthi s tim e i s 

### fine . JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o wh ydon' t w e pla nthe no n Thursday , Decembe r 1st , 201 1 a t ~rOT3"0~aTm 7 just~l"rke~it~was^today?—^And-what

wil l happe ni s i f w e reconven e tha t day . i t
mean s tha t yo u haven' t reache da settlement ,

MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Ms . Rosa , wha t you'l l wan t t o d o i f yo u don' t reac ha settlement , i s t o fa xt o m yoffic e a writte n answe r whic htell s m e wha t yo u agre e o r disagre e wit hi n term s o f th e actua l complaint . An d - -

MS . ROSA : Okay . Ma'am . JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - I' mgoin g t o giv e yo u m yadministrativ e assistant' s phon e numbe r an d he r nam e s o tha t i f yo u don ' t reac h
a settlement , yo u ca n cal l he r an d ge t ou r fa x numbe r an d ge t a littl e bi t mor e informatio n abou t wha t yo u hav e t o pu t i n you r answer .



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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' mno t goin g t o g o int o a lo t o f tha t toda ybecaus e i t sound s lik e th e tv; o o f yo u ar e clos e t o settlement .

MS . ROSA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Bu t if'yo u don' t
reac ha settlement , yo u probabl ywan t t o fa x tha t answe r t o m e n o late r the nTuesday , th e 29th , whic hi s tw o day s befor e th e nex t conference . MS . ROSA : I will .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : M yassistant' s nam e i s Dian e May s M-A-Y-S , jus t lik e th e mont ho f May , he r numbe r i s 202-366-21-

-

M S : ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : --2132 . MS . ROSA : Al l right . •JUDGE SULLIVAN : I'l l repea t tha t jus t t o m.ake sur e 202-366-2132 .

.S o wha t I wil l d o the ni s I wil l
sen dou t a'secon d orde r tha t say s thi s matte r ha s bee npostpone dunti l Thursday , Decembe r

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1 2 3 4 5

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 It ^ 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 1st , 201 1 a t 10:3 0 a.m . I'l l als o includ e i n

tha t orde r tha t i f settlemen t i s no t reached , tha t Ms . Ros a mus t fil e a writte nanswe r wit h
me , wit hth e Offic e o f Hearing s an dyo u sen d
a courtes ycop yt o Mr . Lander s b yTuesday , Novembe r 29th , 2011 . An dthe nthi s orde r will " als o sa ytha t i f th e tw o o f yo u reache da n agreement , simpl yfil e you r agreemen t paper s prio r t o Decembe r 1 , 201 1 s o tha t I'l l kno w abou t i t an dthe nI ca ncance ltha t conferenc e o nThursday , Decembe r 1 .

Mr . Landers , o nbehal f o f you r client , th e FAAd o yo u hav e anythin g els e tha t v; e shoul daddres s today ?

Honor . MR . LANDERS : I d o not . You r

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Ms . Rosa , o nbehal f o f yoursel f i s ther e anythin g tha t yo u v/oul dlik e t o tal k abou t toda yo r an y othe r matte r tha t yo u nee du a t o addres s today ? MS . ROSA : No , You r Honor , n o

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3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Than k yo u

bot hver ymuc hfo r you r presenc e today . I t appear s ou r busines s i s complete . Goo dluc k i nyou r settlemen t negotiations . I f yo u d o no t reac hsettlement , I'l l loo k forwar dt o talkin g t o yo u agai no nThursday , Decembe r 1 , 201 1 a t 10:3 0 i nth e morning .

MS . ROSA : Okay . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Wit htha t w e ca n g o of f th e record . An dI wis hyo u al l a goo d day . MR . LANDERS : Than k you . You r Honor . MS . ROSA : Yo u too , than k you .

(Whereupon , th e abov e hearin g wa s conclude da t 10:4 2 a.m. )

(202 ) 234-443 3 

### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE,
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. WASHINGTON , D.C
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202-234-443 3 I n c2 3
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F I C AT E
Thi s i s C O cerliiEytha t th e foregoin g transcrip t

I nth e matte r of : Brunild a Ro.sa
Eiefore : U S DOT/FAA

Date : 11-09-1 1

Plac e 1 teleconferenc e
v/a s dul yrecorde dan daccuratel ytranscribe dunde r m ydirection,

- further , tha t sai dtranscrip t i s a tru e andaccurat e recor do f th e proceedings .

Cour t Reporte r



### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N W
. (202 ) 234-443 3 WASHKIGTON , O.C
. 20005-370 1 v/wwnealrgross.co m