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42–785 PDF 2008

S. HRG. 110–411

LIVING ON THE STREET: FINDING SOLUTIONS

TO PROTECT RUNAWAY AND HOMELESS YOUTH

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

APRIL 29, 2008

Serial No. J–110–88

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman 

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JON KYL, Arizona 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

BRUCE A. COHEN, Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

STEPHANIE A. MIDDLETON, Republican Staff Director 

NICHOLAS A. ROSSI, Republican Chief Counsel 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Page

Feingold, Hon. Russell D., a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin, prepared statement ................................................................................................... 21

Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont .................... 1

prepared statement .......................................................................................... 36

WITNESSES 

Hounsou, Djimon, Actor and Advocate, Los Angeles, California ......................... 3

Hutchins, Michael, Residential Manager, Spectrum Youth and Family Services Burlington, Vermont ..................................................................................... 6

Kilbane, Jerome, Executive Director, Covenant House Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ............................................................................................... 11

Redmond, Mark, Executive Director, Spectrum Youth and Family Services, 

Burlington, Vermont ............................................................................................ 4

Wagner, Victoria A., Chief Executive Officer, National Network for Youth, 

Washington, D.C. ................................................................................................. 9

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Garcia, Janet, Deputy Director, Governor’s Office for Children, Youth and 

Families, Director, Division for Children, Phoenix, Arizona, statement ......... 23

Hounsou, Djimon, Actor and Advocate, Los Angeles, California, statement ...... 27

Hutchins, Michael, Residential Manager, Spectrum Youth and Family Services, Burlington, Vermont, statement ................................................................. 29

Illinois Collaboration on Youth, Denis Murstein, Executive Director, Chicago, 

Illinois, statement ................................................................................................ 31

Kilbane, Jerome, Executive Director, Covenant House Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, statement ............................................................................ 33

National Alliance to End Homelessness, Nan Roman, President, Washington, 

D.C., statement .................................................................................................... 38

Pinkham, Kreig, Director, Vermont Coalition of Runaway and Homeless 

Youth Programs, Waterbury, Vermont, statement ........................................... 43

Redmond, Mark, Executive Director, Spectrum Youth and Family Services, 

Burlington, Vermont, statement ......................................................................... 47

Wagner, Victoria A., Chief Executive Officer, National Network for Youth, 

Washington, D.C., statement and attachment .................................................. 49

(1)

LIVING ON THE STREET: FINDING SOLUTIONS 

TO PROTECT RUNAWAY AND HOMELESS 

YOUTH 

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008

UNITED STATES SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, 

Washington, D.C. 

The Committee met, Pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in room 

SD–226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patrick J. Leahy, 

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. LEAHY, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VERMONT, CHAIRMAN 

Chairman LEAHY. Good morning. We’re going to talk today about 

youth homelessness. It’s an issue on which we should share a common concern. America is the wealthiest Nation in the world and 

the problem of youth homelessness is shockingly high. This is not 

just in larger cities, but smaller communities and rural areas, as 

is much of the area I represent in the State of Vermont. 

We’re going to hear from several witnesses who are going to 

speak firsthand about the challenges young people face when they 

have nowhere to go. They also show the potential within young 

people who face the most harrowing obstacles, if they’re given a 

chance. One of these homeless went on to become an Oscar-nominated actor; another now works with homeless youth in my home 

State of Vermont and is on his way to great things. So, I look forward to hearing from all of these witnesses. 

Homeless youth is a problem around the world. It affects these 

young people most directly when they’re homeless, but it really affects and endangers the future as well, theirs and everybody else’s. 

There remains a problem, and our wealthy country means we need 

to redouble our commitment and our efforts. We need to support 

those in small towns and communities across the country who work 

on this problem every day and see it firsthand. 

Now, the Justice Department estimated that 1.7 million young 

people either ran away from home or were thrown out of their 

homes in 1999. 1.7 million. Another study suggested a number closer to 2.8 million in 2002. Now, whether you’re talking about 1 million or 5 million, young people become homeless for a variety of 

reasons, including abandonment, running away from an abusive 

home, having no place to go after they’ve left State care. 

An estimated 40 to 60 percent of homeless kids are expected to 

experience physical abuse, 17 to 35 percent experience sexual 

2

abuse while on the street. Homeless youth are also at greater risk 

of mental health problems. Now, many receive vital services in 

their communities, but a very large number of them remain a hidden population. 

The Runaway Homeless Youth Act is the way in which the Federal Government helps communities across the country protect 

some of our most vulnerable children. It was first passed the year 

I was elected to the Senate. That was 1974. We have reauthorized 

it several times over the years. I’ve worked with Senator Specter, 

Senator Hatch, and others on both sides of the aisle, and I hope 

we can reauthorize it again this year. 

Now, some have tried to end these programs, but a bipartisan 

group of Senators said no. This law, the programs it funds and provides a safety net that gives young people a chance to build lives 

for themselves. It helps reunite youngsters with their families. 

Considering the increasingly difficult economic conditions as we 

go into a recession being experienced by so many families around 

the country, now is the time to recommit ourselves to these programs, not to let these programs expire. 

Under the Act, every State receives a basic center grant to provide housing and crisis services for runaway and homeless youth 

and their families. Community-based groups around the country 

can apply for funding through the Transitional Living Program and 

Sexual Abuse Prevention Street Outreach Grant program, to provide longer term housing to homeless youth between 16 and 21, but 

also to help them become self-sufficient. 

In Vermont, the Vermont Coalition for Runaways, the Homeless 

Youth, the New England Network for Child, Youth, and Family 

Services, and Spectrum Youth and Family Services in Burlington 

all receive grants under these programs. They’ve all provided excellent service. 

Recently we learned that the street outreach programs in 

Vermont served nearly 10,000 young people. Think of that number. 

We are a State of only 600,000 people and we helped 10,000 young 

people. Replicate that in the other 49 States or in a country of 300 

million. 

So, the topics are difficult. They deserve our attention. We have 

a distinguished panel of witnesses today of the people working directly with youth in the streets today in rural places like Vermont, 

those who are lending their names and voices to a worthy cause. 

It’s necessary that we find ways to approach this. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Leahy appears as a submission for the record.] 

So what I’m going to do, I’m going to introduce each witness and 

ask them to speak, and then we’ll go into questions. 

Djimon Hounsou is an Academy Award-nominated actor. He’s an 

advocate on behalf of homeless youth. We had a chance to chat 

prior to this hearing and he was kind enough to not correct my 

French when we were speaking French. He’s best known for his 

roles in films such as Amistad, when I first saw him, the film, In 

America, and Blood Diamond, which, as difficult as it is to watch, 

I would urge everybody to see to see what’s happening the world 

today. He’s won numerous awards, including an NAACP Image 

Award and a National Board of Review Award. He testifies today 

3

based on personal experience. He was born in West Africa. He 

moved to Paris at age 13 in order to get a better education. While 

living in France as a youth, he became homeless. So we will begin, 

Mr. Hounsou, avec vous. 

STATEMENT OF DJIMON HOUNSOU, ACTOR AND ADVOCATE, 

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 

Mr. HOUNSOU. Thank you, Chairman Leahy and members of the 

Committee for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the Runaway 

and Homeless Youth Act, which serves our country’s troubled and 

neglected adolescents that are so in need of our assistance. 

My name is Djimon Hounsou and I can address this issue personally, having experienced the very problem that we are discussing. 

It is known to some that this cause is of personal importance to 

me and connects on a deeply intimate level. While I stand before 

you today accomplished and successful in the eyes of society, I 

haven’t always been so fortunate. After leaving my home at an 

early age and moving to France, I lived on the streets for some 

time, fighting for survival and searching out for nothing more than 

my daily necessities for a meager existence. I lived out my days in 

hunger and desperation. 

So this cause is not merely some distant charity that I contribute 

to from my home due to feelings of guilt or goodwill, but my concern comes from an intimate understanding of the situation that 

these children face. 

This issue is as relevant today as it was in 1991, at the last hearing on the matter. We cannot ignore this crisis any longer. The 

mostly silent problem of homeless and disconnected youth in our 

country will not simply disappear. 

The RHYA is important because kids need to dream. The hopes 

and dreams of homeless youth who live on the street, however, are 

stifled and crushed and there is no room left for a vision of the future. When you lack the basic necessities required for survival, everything else fades away and you are left with nothing but the aching desire for food and shelter. I believe in the beauty and importance of our youth and I believe that we have the responsibility to 

protect and nurture the generation beneath us to preserve our future and theirs. Therefore, we need to champion causes such as the 

RHYA and the National Network’s Place to Call Home campaign, 

and find other ways to help safeguard and teach our youth. 

It is a sad state of affairs when the richest country in the world 

has over 2 million children and adolescents living on the streets. 

This should not be seen as a crisis, but a crime. It should not be 

taken lightly or overlooked. It is wonderful that we live in such a 

generous country that is able to help so many others in need 

around the world, but let us not forget the people closest to home. 

Now, the question is not whether we can afford to fund such a 

cause, the question is how can we afford not to? The homeless children of our country and the kids that have run away who choose 

to live on the streets rather than to deal with their family lives deserve not only a better, brighter future, but a better today. 

In summary, I urge the Committee to quickly reauthorize the 

Runaway and Homeless Youth Act so that community-based orgaVerDate 0ct 09 2002 12:54 Jun 13, 2008 Jkt 042785 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\42785.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
4

nizations can provide a much-needed safety net for youth in runaway and homeless situations. 

I also encourage you to support the National Network for Youth’s 

Place to Call Home campaign, a comprehensive public policy platform that seeks to prevent and end homelessness among our youth. 

If we have learned anything over the last 30 years, it is that young 

people’s chances of becoming productive, contributing members of 

society are greatly increased when they are given the opportunity 

to realize and pursue their dreams. We need to guard and preserve 

the innocence and purity of the youth of our country and help cultivate and encourage their hopes and dreams. Without a home, 

food, and clothing, children do not have even the opportunity needed to rise above their circumstances. 

So I thank the Chairman and members of the Committee for taking leadership on the important issue of runaway and homeless 

youth, and I look forward to answering any questions you may 

have. 

Thank you. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hounsou appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Mark Redmond will be our next witness. He’s 

the executive director of Spectrum Youth and Family Services in 

Burlington, Vermont. He’s worked there since 2003. Is that correct? 

Mr. REDMOND. That’s correct. 

Chairman LEAHY. He spent almost 27 years volunteering and 

working for various nonprofit organizations on behalf of homeless, 

runaway, and at-risk youth, including the Domos Foundation 

Stamp for Connecticut and Covenant House in New York. Mr. 

Redmond’s book, The Goodness Within: Reaching Out to Troubled 

Teens With Love and Compassion, was published in 2004. He’s also 

written articles and essays that have been featured in major nationwide publications. He received his bachelor’s degree from Villa 

Nova, his master’s degree from New York University. 

Mr. Redmond, you and I also chatted briefly this morning, and 

I’m delighted to have you here. Please go ahead. 

STATEMENT OF MARK REDMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

SPECTRUM YOUTH AND FAMILY SERVICES, BURLINGTON, 

VERMONT 

Mr. REDMOND. Thank you, Chairman Leahy and members of the 

Committee, for this opportunity to address the fundamental role of 

the Runaway and Homeless Youth Act in serving young people in 

our country who are disconnected from family and other supports, 

many of whom end up living on the streets. 

I’m the executive director of Spectrum Youth and Family Services in Burlington, Vermont. We’re the largest provider of services 

to homeless and at-risk youth in the State. We’ve been in existence 

since 1970. In fact, Senator Leahy was one of our early board members. We’re also a longstanding member of the National Network 

for Youth. 

The Act authorizes three distinct programs. Spectrum is the only 

nonprofit in Vermont which receives funding for, and provides services in, all three areas. The first program within the continuum is 

5

called Street Outreach. We hire professional, credentialed adults 

and college students from nearby St. Michael’s College and the 

University of Vermont, and our staff are out every day connecting 

with scores of homeless youth in Burlington. Some of them are living in abandoned box cars down by Lake Champlain, some of them 

live in the woods out by the lake, others live behind restaurants 

on Church Street. Our staff are out there every day. They know 

them by name. They’re distributing sandwiches, blankets, sleeping 

bags, clothing, gloves, anything to meet their most basic needs. 

Our outreach staff use these contacts to build trusting relationships with youth so we can get them off the streets and into our 

shelter. We also have a drop-in center as part of our outreach program, right off the main pedestrian mall in downtown Burlington. 

Every day of the year, homeless youth can come in and receive a 

free hot lunch, free hot dinner, change of clothing, shower, do their 

laundry, and there’s a free health clinic right next door run by the 

Community Health Center of Burlington where they can see a doctor a nurse. 

We have four job developers on staff to help kinds find jobs. We 

have a full-time teacher on staff to help them get their GED or 

their high school diploma. We even have a part-time person to help 

kids get into college. We have licensed mental health and substance abuse counselors on staff because we know that mental illness, alcoholism, and drug addiction are prevalent among this population. 

The second program model of the Act is called Basic Center. 

Basic Center funds support our 12-bed shelter, which is right above 

the drop-in center. That, too, is open every day of the year. From 

the moment a youth arrives, the message is: how can we support 

you in developing a plan that will get you off the streets permanently? Our shelter staff also work closely with young people’s families to support reunification, if that is possible. 

The third component of the Act is called the Transitional Living 

Program. At Spectrum, this consists of a nine-unit SRO, singleroom occupancy, building which is a few blocks away from the shelter. If a young person is in our shelter and cannot be safely reunified with his or her family, he or she then transitions over to the 

longer term SRO where they get a Section 8 lease and their own 

room. They can stay there for up to 18 months. A few years ago 

we developed an after-care support, allowing you to successfully 

graduate from the SRO, to receive a Section 8 voucher to take out 

into the housing market. 

Other young people will go into a college dorm, they’ll go into Job 

Corps, or State safe and stable living situations. Just a month ago, 

we even had one young man who, 2 years ago was homeless, living 

in a truck, came to Spectrum, went through our programs, and 

after he graduated he decided he wanted to become a Marine. Two 

weeks ago, he graduated from Paris Island boot camp, and today 

he’s a Marine. So, our mission is to help homeless youth develop 

a plan that leads to self-sufficiency and independent living. 

The Runaway and Homeless Youth Act supports all of this work 

that we do, which is why it’s so important to reauthorize it before 

it sunsets in September. A few recommendations that would 

strengthen the Act. First, the small State minimum for Basic CenVerDate 0ct 09 2002 12:54 Jun 13, 2008 Jkt 042785 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\42785.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
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ter should be increased to $200,000. It’s only $100,000 now. That’s 

all that the entire State of Vermont receives right now, and Spectrum only receives $18,000 of that. So, it’s very difficult to operate 

a program on so little money. 

Second, the authorization levels for the consolidated account 

should be $200 million, and the Street Outreach programs authorized at $30 million. Spectrum has been level-funded since 1994, so 

you can only imagine how costs have risen in 14 years, while the 

grant amount stays the same. With more funding available, we 

could assist youth in exiting the streets, connecting them to school 

and to the workforce. 

Finally, please extend the amount of time a young person can remain in a transitional living program from the current 18 months 

to 2 years. 

Thank you, Senator, for this opportunity to speak to you today. 

I look forward to answering any questions you may have. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Redmond appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. I should note for anybody who’s watching us, 

when you talk about the number of homeless people in Burlington 

and sleeping out, I was showing some of you a picture earlier that 

my grandson took in our home of Vermont just 6 weeks ago with 

a 10-foot snow bank behind it from where they’d been plowing our 

driveway. Vermont is not a southern State. We can have temperatures literally 10, 15 degrees, 20 degrees below zero in the wintertime, as well as very severe weather. This is just to put in context 

what being homeless there can be. I never know each week when 

I go home what the weather is going to be because it changes and 

it can be severe. 

Now, Michael Hutchins is a residential manager at the Spectrum 

Youth Co-Op in Burlington, Vermont. Mr. Hutchins, I hope you 

won’t mind that I’d point out that you’ve overcome addiction, posttraumatic stress disorder, and homelessness. I mention those 

things because you’re not speaking in the abstract when you speak 

here. You had a drug overdose in 2002. After that, you became a 

client at Spectrum’s Runaway and Homeless Youth Shelter, and 3 

years later became part of their residential team. You’re currently 

enrolled at Springfield College’s School of Human Services in St. 

Johnsbury, Vermont, working a bachelor of science degree in 

human services, with concentration in addiction studies. Again, an 

example of having people who are testifying here, not speaking 

about some abstract concept. 

Mr. Hutchins, it’s all yours. 

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL HUTCHINS, RESIDENTIAL MANAGER, SPECTRUM YOUTH AND FAMILY SERVICES, BURLINGTON, VERMONT 

Mr. HUTCHINS. Thank you very much. I work as a residential 

manager at Spectrum Youth and Family Services. At the Youth CoOp, we house up to six teenaged youth, ages 15–19, who are in the 

foster care system. I can identify with the youth that I have the 

opportunity to work with because I know what it is like to be 

7

homeless, and I know how difficult it is to be struggling with addictions and mental health issues, as these young men are. 

I first came to Spectrum in May of 2002 as a client in the shelter. Just 1 week prior to my arrival, I had barely survived a drug 

overdose in the club that I worked at down in Orlando, Florida. 

Unlike the experiences of most runaway and homeless youth, there 

had been no immediate family conflict between my adoptive mother 

and myself. 

My mother is a renowned psychologist who has specialized in 

child and family counseling for almost as many years as I am old. 

She had a lot of work to do when she adopted me, as I had 6 years’ 

worth of physical and sexual abuse that had occurred while I was 

in the care of my biological mother. My experience of abuse is common among youth who experience homelessness. Studies have 

shown that between 40 and 60 percent of homeless youth have experienced such abuse during their childhood. So, my adoptive 

mother was my saving grace and I’m very lucky to have her as my 

parent. 

The large part of the problems I encountered down in Florida, 

most specifically the addiction and the homeless and the overdose, 

were due to the fact that I wanted to prove my independence, not 

just to myself, but to anyone and everyone who might have said I 

wasn’t going to make it out on my own. 

Back then, going back home to Vermont from Florida, getting 

support from my family was not really an option for me, as I was 

trying to figure out who I was, what I believed in, what I wanted 

to do with my life, and without my decisions being influenced by 

my mother’s opinions. 

Another factor that played a part was the fact that, as an adopted adolescent who hadn’t heard from his biological mother in years, 

I wasn’t sure if I felt that I belonged to anybody. So after a 3-

month binge on narcotics, my body finally fell out from beneath me. 

I went into seizures on the ground outside of the club and my heart 

had stopped beating on the way to the emergency room. The EMTs 

had to resuscitate me in the ambulance and I awoke in a hospital 

bed several hours later, alone, homeless, broke, and terrified. The 

only thing that I possessed in that moment was the realization that 

I wouldn’t be alive much longer if I didn’t get help. 

So with the help of family members and friends of the family 

who work in the field of human services, the referral to Spectrum 

came swiftly to my list of options. My other choices included joining 

the military, moving to Philadelphia to live near my brother, or 

staying in Orlando and risking death yet again. So I chose Spectrum because I wanted to be closer to home and people that I know 

who cared about me. 

So once I arrived at Spectrum and made the decision to stay 

dedicated to getting my life on track and clear of narcotics, it only 

took me 2 months to earn my way out of the shelter and into Spectrum’s transitional living program, the SRO. 

During my 18-month stay there, I went through intensive inpatient treatment at Conifer Parks Drug Rehabilitation Center in 

Schenectady, New York, intensive outpatient treatment in the form 

of group therapy which met three times each week at a Burlington 

facility called Day One, and attended Alcoholics Anonymous and 

8

Narcotics Anonymous meetings nearly twice a day for several 

months. 

Everyone on my Spectrum treatment team—my case manager, 

counselor, doctor, and the workers in the jobs program and the 

education department—as well as all the residential managers who 

worked in the shelter and the SRO, all helped me achieve my ultimate goal: to live independently in the community as a self-sufficient young adult. 

Once I successfully completed the three phases of the SRO program, I moved into an apartment with a friend that I’d made while 

working as a seasonal worker at a video game store. About a year 

and a half later, after working as a shift supervisor at a McDonald’s restaurant and assistant store manager at the video game 

store, it didn’t really take me long to realize that, as proud as I was 

to have the managerial skills that I had learned, it wasn’t rewarding enough work. 

So I remembered a conversation I had with our residential director, Elise Brokaw, and I’d asked her if she thought I would make 

a good staff member some day. She told me to give it a year out 

on my own and then to come back and talk to her and she’d be glad 

to have me on board. 

So as soon as I got hired at Spectrum, I quit my job at the video 

game store and after 6 months of working part-time respite I was 

taken on as full-time staff. I have worked there for almost 3 years. 

It’s been amazing to watch these young individuals work on treatment goals similar to those that I had once set for myself. It is 

highly rewarding to be able to assist and support them through 

their difficult struggles. Now instead of helping people make decisions on which video game to buy or whether to super-size their 

meal, I am able to help them make important decisions about their 

lives. 

When a youth tells me that I don’t understand what they’re 

going through, I can tell them now that I know exactly how they 

are feeling. I believe my experience as a Spectrum client gives hope 

to the youth that I work with so they can see proof that success 

through this program is, indeed, possible. I’ve even had them ask 

me if I thought they would make a good staff member someday, so 

things have come around full circle. 

I can only hope that the youth that I work with, as well as the 

thousands and thousands of homeless and runaway youth in this 

Nation today, will be able to share their own success stories like 

mine, and encourage others to improve the quality of their lives as 

well. 

Without the funding that the Runaway and Homeless Youth Act 

provides to organizations like Spectrum nationwide, those success 

stories might never occur. If Spectrum Youth and Family Services 

had not existed on May 19, 2002, I would not be standing before 

you today. 

So I profess to you that I believe in this system wholeheartedly, 

and I implore you to not only reauthorize this Act before it expires, 

but to focus in the years to come on how we as a Nation can improve the quality of the lives of youth who believe they don’t have 

a brighter tomorrow. 

9

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you, Mr. Hutchins. I appreciate you 

being here. We’ll have questions in a few minutes. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hutchins appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Victoria Wagner, is the president and CEO of 

the National Network for Youth, a national membership organization that represents the needs of homeless youth to policymakers 

and lawmakers. Prior to working with the National Network for 

Youth, Ms. Wagner served as the CEO of Youth Care, a multi-million dollar agency devoted to homeless and runaway youth from 

1985 to 2004. Is that correct? 

Ms. WAGNER. That’s correct. 

Chairman LEAHY. She served on the boards of numerous organizations, including the International Forum for Child Welfare, the 

Child Welfare League of America’s International Committee, and 

the Council on Accreditation. 

Again, in keeping with the previous three, she can speak from 

experience. Ms. Wagner was a former runaway herself. She’s devoted her career to changing the lives and circumstances of runaway and homeless youth. 

Ms. Wagner, the floor is yours. 

STATEMENT OF VICTORIA A. WAGNER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NATIONAL NETWORK FOR YOUTH, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Ms. WAGNER. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s a pleasure to 

be here with such a distinguished panel. 

As you said, my roots in this really were 40-some years ago. I 

was sexually abused for 2 years by a stepfather. I ran away from 

home as a result of that. The Runaway and Homeless Youth Act 

did not exist. There was no one there to reach out a hand, there 

was no one there to help troubled youth. 

As a result, I went in front of a judge and I was locked up for 

a year for nothing more than running away. During that year, I decided that it was important to me to try to change what happened 

to runaway youth and I’ve spent my career doing that. I deeply, 

deeply believe in the Runaway and Homeless Youth Act. It is the 

only source of money in this country that allows a young person to 

walk in the door of a program without going through a State, without going through police, or some other kind of gatekeeper and get 

help. 

We need to fund it at much higher levels. We need to make sure 

that there are not long waiting lists. Behind me sits the executive 

director of one of the oldest runaway programs in the country, 

Sasha Bruce Youthwork. It is one mile from here. It has a waiting 

list of a year for young people to get into transitional housing. I 

find that, personally, deeply disturbing. 

As you said, the National Network for Youth represents 400 organizations across the country. Between them, they serve 2.5 million young people annually. Last year, we launched a sweeping 

campaign called the Place to Call Home campaign that looks at legislative issues, policy issues, and program issues that relate to runaway and homeless youth. 

As you said, it’s difficult to know the size of the homeless youth 

population. Some estimates are 1.7 million, some estimates are 

10

higher. What I know personally is that it is a crime to have a 

young person on the streets of America that’s homeless. Young people—not surprisingly—they still report family conflict, drug and alcohol problems within the home, and increasingly family poverty, 

as reasons for leaving home. 

When I worked as a street outreach worker and an executive director, we heard stories of young people literally being left by their 

families during a move and the children having nowhere to go. 

The National Network has submitted written testimony, as I’m 

sure you know, with a number of policy recommendations, but I 

would like to highlight some of our priority recommendations. 

The first of those, which I don’t think should be a surprise, is to 

ask HHS every fifth year to do a national estimate of the prevalence of runaway and homeless episodes among youth. It’s very difficult to have appropriate guidance and funding when our numbers 

are such a guesstimate, and I honestly think they are a guesstimate. 

There was a study done by HHS in 2003 that recommended 

doing such prevalence studies every 5 to 10 years. Nothing has 

been done since that. We would really urge you to make that part 

of this reauthorization. 

Obviously, my second priority is to reauthorize the Runaway and 

Homeless Youth Act. We certainly echo Mr. Redmond’s recommendations on the funding levels. I would certainly ask for higher if I thought there was any chance. I believe that a country that’s 

been—

Chairman LEAHY. So would I. 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes. Okay. Well, why don’t we, you know, divert 

some funds from other places and take care of our children, is what 

I would say. 

The Runaway and Homeless Youth programs are remarkably 

successful. When Djimon and I had breakfast this morning, we 

were talking about what works. Is there something that works? 

Well, these programs work. That is what is so appalling, that we 

know that they work and yet we don’t fund them. They decrease 

drop-out rates, increase young people going into college, help families get back together, and reduce physical abuse. They do many, 

many positive things. Last year, they served 740,000 young people. 

Of those, only 7 percent were provided housing because of lack of 

funding for housing. 

My third priority recommendation is to develop performance 

standards. There are performance standards now for Basic Centers. 

We believe that performance standards are necessary across all 

three of the programs. 

And finally, my last recommendation is to ask for an appeals 

process. Over the last 3 years, in more communities like those you 

represent, we have seen a greater need. We are seeing more and 

more grants go in, and often what is written gets missed by reviewers. I personally have had calls from a number of organizations 

saying, I answered this question on this page and yet I was turned 

down. There is no process now for a grantee to appeal that decision? We would be happy to talk with you about our technical recommendations, but that’s our fourth recommendation. 

There are certainly solutions. I see that I’m out of time. 

11

Chairman LEAHY. Everyone’s whole statement will be made part 

of the record. 

Ms. WAGNER. Okay. 

Chairman LEAHY. Including any recommendation. 

Ms. WAGNER. Our biggest recommendations, I’ve just given you, 

and all of our written recommendations you have. But thank you 

very much for letting me testify. 

Chairman LEAHY. I think it would be safe to say you don’t see 

the problem going away. 

Ms. WAGNER. True. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Wagner appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Senator Specter has been a tremendous help 

in these programs throughout his years, both as a member of this 

Committee and as a member of Appropriations. As often happens, 

most of us have four or five committee meetings going on at the 

same time. I know I have several others. He is stuck in one. But 

he wanted me to welcome Mr. Kilbane. 

Jerome Kilbane has worked for community-based organizations 

since 1988, assisting homeless, runaway, and at-risk youth. He’s 

currently the executive director of the Covenant House in Pennsylvania, and Senator Specter wanted you to testify. He’s held that 

position since 1999. In fact, you are responsible for starting up in 

Pennsylvania, in Philly, as I recall. From 1994 to 1999, he held 

various positions with the Covenant House in Atlantic City, New 

Jersey, including associate executive director. He received both 

bachelors and master’s degrees from St. Johns University. 

Mr. Kilbane, thank you for coming. Go ahead, please. 

STATEMENT OF JEROME KILBANE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

COVENANT HOUSE PENNSYLVANIA, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA 

Mr. KILBANE. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Leahy and 

members of the Committee, for allowing me to testify today. 

As you said, my name is Jerome Kilbane. I’m the executive director of Covenant House in Pennsylvania, located in Philadelphia. 

Covenant House International has been serving homeless and runaway youth since 1972. We serve kids under the age of 21. We 

began working with homeless and runaway youth 2 years before 

the actual enactment of the Runaway and Homeless Youth Act. 

But since its inception, Covenant House has served over one million homeless youth throughout all of our sites. Last year alone, 

through Covenant House International, 65,000 kids were served. 

Sixty-five percent of the kids who come to Covenant House are between the ages of 18 and 21. They are the youth who are between 

the youth system and the adult system. Often, they are overlooked 

and invisible. 

Covenant House Pennsylvania, as you stated earlier, was started 

in 1999. Since that time, we have served probably 10,000 kids. But 

last year, 3,500 young people came to our doors and received services. We provided emergency shelter and support services for over 

500, and it looks like this fiscal year that number will be up 20 

percent. 

12

We have a continuum of services, as many of the providers do, 

that starts with street outreach. Our major therapeutic tool is not 

our services, it’s our relationships. It’s beginning to reach out to 

kids to say, you have a place to go to, that you’re worth more than 

being on the street. I think that is the message that we have to 

send to all of our young people. 

It may surprise many to learn that there is a large homeless population in the State of Pennsylvania. Homeless youth are largely 

invisible, as I said, and they’re homeless for many reasons. Over 

half of the kids who come to Covenant House either age out of the 

foster care system or are abandoned. They’re essentially thrown to 

the streets. 

At last count, there were 40 transitional housing beds in the entire State, in the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We served 

500 young people in our shelter alone. The math just doesn’t add 

up. 

We are beginning a project to expand the transitional housing 

beds for youth in the City of Philadelphia by building an 18-unit 

program in the Kensington section. That gives 30 beds. But the reality of it is, again, it is not nearly enough. 

I think what was stated earlier is that programs work. Over 80 

percent of the kids who left our transitional housing program 

moved to a safe, stable living environment. You know, our kids do 

not need sympathy, they need empathy and choices and the support to do it. 

I was going to talk about a young lady who was given a scholarship through St. John’s University who came to us homeless, was 

abused, and has recently graduated. But I want to talk a little bit 

about an experience I had. About a year ago, I got a phone call by 

a young man who had been to Covenant House. His name was 

Wesley. Wesley’s goal after being through our crisis center was to 

enter the military. I got a phone call saying that he was killed in 

Iraq and we, Covenant House, was the last known address. I 

thought to myself the tremendous responsibility that we had, that 

when he was writing down what was the most important thing in 

his life, he said a homeless shelter. 

I cannot talk to you about the importance of this funding. The 

reality of it is, we’ll give statistics about the numbers of kids on 

the street tonight, but the reality of it is, it’s because of this funding that there are tens of thousands of kids who do not need to be 

on the street, who have a place to go. That is something that we 

need to celebrate. It’s only because of you and the support that 

you’ve given to us, and the need to reenact this legislation. 

I cannot say enough that this makes a difference in thousands 

of kids’ lives who have no other place to go, who have no one else 

to turn to. It’s because of that that I think that’s one of the things 

that we can say that we’re proud of. So I’d like to thank you for 

your support and to ask, please, I come with my hat in my hand 

and I beg and ask you to please, please, support us again. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kilbane appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

I hope nobody will think this is political to say, but as a matter 

of priorities, you talk about the young man who was killed in Iraq, 

13

the amount of money we’ve spent in Iraq this week so far—it’s not 

even noon on Tuesday—would fund all these programs several 

times over. At some point in our country, in thinking about our 

youth, we’d better start thinking about what our priorities are as 

a Nation. That’s something that is not a Democratic or Republican 

view, but as Americans we have to start asking, what are our priorities? 

I look at my children. Our son, Mark, went in the Marine Corps 

out of Burlington High School. I look at our children, our grandchildren, and others. They have families with a stable life. But I 

also know a lot of people, and have met a lot of people both when 

I was a prosecutor and since I’ve been in the Senate, who do not 

have, the people you’ve talked about. 

Mr. Hounsou, you mentioned in your testimony the issue of 

homeless children. It’s one that you can personally relate to. It’s 

not just as some who take on a cause du jour, you do this because 

it means something to you. 

When you were a teenager, struggling with homelessness—and I 

realize it was in a different country—but what kind of programs or 

assistance would have been most helpful to you? 

Mr. HOUNSOU. Well, Mr. Chairman, my recollection, is that while 

I was growing up in France and was homeless, was that there was 

no facility that was geared towards homelessness. All I remember 

is that during the hard times that I was on the street, and those 

times were mostly the wintertimes when I didn’t have enough 

warm clothes to sustain the harsh weather outside, I found myself 

mostly—being sent to a juvenile—sort of the juvenile prison to 

spend the night. So my experience was, within the course of 3 or 

4 years before I was discovered on the street by a fashion designer 

and my life sort of turned around eventually. But there was no 

structure in place when I was growing up in France. There was no 

structure for homelessness, for homeless youth. 

Another one of the things that I found difficult for homeless 

youth is that I think we all have the sort of understanding that 

when you’re homeless, you ought to be—the outlook is you’re dirty, 

long hair, haven’t washed for a long time, and don’t have clean 

clothes on. So that is society’s image of the homeless. But I think 

one thing that most of us are missing is that young men and 

women, mostly within the age of 16, 17, 18 years old, are always 

trying to look their best, while going out, searching for a minimum 

to eat, searching out for help to find a place to sleep. 

So, obviously we’re all trying to look somewhat clean as we’re 

searching for a better tomorrow. So I think most people look at 

that as, well, you’re not really homeless, you look quite decent, you 

look quite clean, you’re not really homeless. But there was no 

structure really in place to educate you, or someone to champion 

you, or to direct you in the right place, to the right facilities, or to 

the right people, to someone that can help. So that was my experience, growing up in France. 

Chairman LEAHY. You talk about, to get a warm place to sleep 

they had to put you in a juvenile prison. 

Mr. HOUNSOU. Right. 

Chairman LEAHY. Were there no mentors? 

14

Mr. HOUNSOU. There was no mentor. You were just given a letter. I was just given a letter to go to a juvenile prison to spend the 

night, and that was it. Yes. 

Chairman LEAHY. Were you treated differently because of the 

color of your skin, as homeless? 

Mr. HOUNSOU. I can’t really say that, in the sense that I didn’t 

know any other homeless. I certainly wanted to distance myself 

from being with the group of homeless, because I didn’t see any solution coming out of being in a group of kids that can’t find means 

or ways to get out of the streets. It was not necessarily helpful, so 

I was just navigating through the city and trying to find help or 

assistance. 

Chairman LEAHY. But there wasn’t anything like a shelter you 

could go knock on the door and say, here, I want to do something. 

Mr. HOUNSOU. No. 

Chairman LEAHY. I want school, I want a job, I want whatever, 

can you help me out. 

Mr. HOUNSOU. No. There weren’t any shelters of the sort, no. 

Chairman LEAHY. Would that have made a difference? 

Mr. HOUNSOU. That would have made a tremendous difference. 

I think there were probably some structures in place in France, but 

not to my knowledge at the time. I think that probably now it’s 

definitely better today than it was before, but there weren’t any 

shelter facilities, no. 

Chairman LEAHY. And you weren’t separated by language. Your 

first language is French. 

Mr. HOUNSOU. Yes. My first language is French, so it was not a 

question of language. 

Chairman LEAHY. Let me then switch continents. Mr. Redmond, 

you serve a predominantly rural area in your work. For those who 

are watching, the largest city in Vermont is 38,000 people. Where 

I live, in a town of 1,200 people, it is more typical in Vermont. I 

live on a dirt road. My nearest neighbor is half a mile away—in 

this case, my son and daughter-in-law. That sets up a different 

thing. But you still have a lot of runaway and homeless youth, as 

you talked about. 

Can you refer to some of the particular problems within a rural 

area, how you reach out to these homeless, these runaway youths? 

Because if we have about 10,000 in Vermont, they’re not all in the 

Burlington area, which has at least a certain urban core to it. They 

have to be all over the State. 

Mr. REDMOND. Right. That’s true. Thankfully, Kreig Pinkham’s 

here today. He’s head of the Vermont Coalition of Runaway and 

Homeless Youth Programs. There is a whole network of programs 

around the State that are there to help. Because you’re right, 

they’re not all in Burlington; they’re in St. Johnsbury, they’re in 

Brattleboro, they’re in Bennington. So there’s a series of smaller 

programs. Spectrum is the largest one. For a certain percentage of 

kids, Burlington becomes the downtown, and Church Street in Burlington is the downtown of the downtown. That’s why we’re right 

there. We’re a block away from that, so that’s important. 

So I think you’re right. There are different challenges with a 

rural setting and those programs adapt in the way that they can. 

The program model we have was recently replicated in St. 

15

Johnsbury, which is probably the second or third largest in 

Vermont, because they saw the success that we were having. So I 

think the key to this Act is to provide enough flexibility so a State 

that has, like in Philadelphia, a high concentration of homeless 

youth, it can do what works there, and in a State like Vermont, 

can replicate programs that fit them the best. 

Chairman LEAHY. Let me go into it a little bit further. You mentioned St. Johnsbury. Even that has a basic defined downtown. We 

don’t have a downtown where I live. It’s spread out over a large 

area. Not untypical of other parts, like the Northeast Kingdom 

where my wife was born, places of that nature, how do you find 

homeless? Where do they go? 

Mr. REDMOND. Where do kids go from those communities? 

Chairman LEAHY. Yes. 

Mr. REDMOND. They’re linked into—I mean, word of mouth is the 

biggest. Kids will hear about programs through the police, through 

counselors. But word of mouth among other homeless youth is the 

biggest network. So they will know where these different resources 

are. Some cities have apartments, supportive apartment programs. 

So finding them is never a problem. I mean, the beauty of the Act 

also has an outreach component, and that’s key for us. 

As I said earlier, we have these staff and college students who 

are out every day and they know where these kids are, and they’re 

connecting with them. These are young people who haven’t had a 

good experience with adults, they haven’t had a good experience 

with agencies and different institutions. So that’s why I think it’s 

key to engage them with young people—we hire college students—

who can really connect with them and build relationships. A lot of 

it is just the relationship building part that’s the key to the work, 

in my opinion. 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, then let me go to somebody who has experienced all parts of this, Mr. Hutchins. What I understand from 

your testimony, you were helped by some of these programs. What 

type of assistance—if you had to go and pick any one type of assistance, what was most valuable to you? 

Mr. HUTCHINS. I think the 18 months that I spent in the transitional living program helped me the most because it provided me 

stability. I wasn’t, you know, moving back and forth from place to 

place or sleeping on people’s couches. I had, you know, my own 

room. I paid rent. I had my own key to the door. I had a secure, 

safe place to stay and reside while I worked on my issues. 

Chairman LEAHY. What about counseling? Did you get that during that time? 

Mr. HUTCHINS. Yes. Sometimes twice a week. Usually we try to 

get our youths to see counselors once a week. 

Chairman LEAHY. When you’re talking to homeless youth and 

they can see you dressed like you are now, in a suit and tie, you 

might get the, ‘‘what the heck do you know, how do you know?’’ Obviously, you can go to your own experience and say. But is there 

anything that—when you sent to Spectrum, any piece of advice or 

help that you find yourself going back and passing on to people 

who you’re now trying to help or is it all varied from person to person? 

16

Mr. HUTCHINS. Everyone’s experience varies. What they need to 

do to get their lives on track will vary. But I think the biggest piece 

of advice is, you really need to want it. 

Chairman LEAHY. Do what? 

Mr. HUTCHINS. You really need to want to get your life back on 

track. We don’t just hand youth a brand-new life, and here you go. 

It’s a lot of work. You really need to dedicate yourself, and it’s incredibly worth it once you get through. 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, let me follow that a bit. Suppose you 

have a young person, an alcoholic, drug dependence, extremely 

angry from whatever put them there. It could have been a situation 

like Ms. Wagner or somebody else had. It’s one thing when, in a 

case like you had, you wake up in a hospital and you say, this kind 

of sucks, you know. There’s got to be something better than this, 

because the morgue is two floors down. I could have ended up in 

there, too. 

But is there some way of reaching, before someone reaches that 

point? That’s pretty cataclysmic. When I was State’s Attorney in 

Burlington in Chittenden County, we saw some of these homeless 

youths. But I did see them in the morgue. I did see them in the 

morgue. They hadn’t sought the help. You said your heart stopped 

a couple of times. Their hearts stopped and stayed stopped. 

Is there anything you can do to reach them before they hit that 

point? What I’m trying to reach for is, is there a way of convincing 

somebody you really want to turn your life around before they 

reach that conclusion on their own? 

Mr. HUTCHINS. I think that’s something we all try to figure out, 

how to stop someone from hitting that ultimate rock bottom. But 

it’s really hard to get someone to really want to turn their life 

around until they’ve experienced that. So, unfortunately, people hit 

rock bottom and stay there. It’s something I struggle with every 

day when I am working with someone who is, you know, not making the greatest decisions for themselves. 

I know from my experiences, me standing there and wagging my 

finger at them and telling them what not to do is only going to 

make them go out and do it. It’s always a difficult task to figure 

out, you know, what’s going to motivate them, how to get them motivated to turn things in a different direction and figure things out 

for themselves and become empowered and realize that they can be 

independent and make good decisions for themselves. 

Chairman LEAHY. Finger wagging. Dealing with even younger 

children, I understand what you’re saying. But I imagine the temptation must be there to say, listen up, I was there, pay attention, 

and to hit the right point. 

That sort of leads me to the next question. Ms. Wagner, you 

talked about your running away. They locked you up. Is that still 

happening today? 

Ms. WAGNER. Oh, it’s definitely still happening, yes. In the mid 

1980s, there was a technicality placed in the Juvenile Justice Act 

called the Valid Court Order exception that created a loophole in 

the core requirement a for no longer locking up runaways and 

other kids for status offenses. Status offenses could be truancy, 

running away, things that if you or I did wouldn’t be a crime. In 

17

2004, over 400,000 young people were arrested or held in custody 

because of those kinds of status offenses. 

Chairman LEAHY. Give me that number again. 

Ms. WAGNER. Four hundred thousand. So in a lot of ways, I 

mean, we haven’t totally turned back the clock. The really, really 

good news is that we have the Runaway and Homeless Youth Act. 

I guess I would like to add that having someone on the street to 

reach out a hand to a young person, I think, makes a critical difference. But the fact that we’re still locking up young people is absolutely appalling, and worse is that they are locked up often for 

long periods of time. 

Chairman LEAHY. Now, we have NIS–MART, too. For those who 

aren’t used to acronyms, it’s the Department of Justice that funds 

the National Incidence Studies of issuing, abducted, runaway, and 

thrown-away youth. I have to read it to remember all the words on 

it. 

Tell us a little bit about that study. Is it adequate or can we 

make it better? 

Ms. WAGNER. Well, I think there are some big pieces missing 

from that study. For one thing, kids who didn’t return home 

weren’t counted, so if you remained homeless, you weren’t counted 

in that study. It only included young people under 18. It didn’t look 

at street youth—we’ve talked all the way through this, that homeless youth do not look like homeless adults. They don’t sit with 

shopping carts or match the image Djimon spoke of. It’s different. 

They often go from place to place, they couch surf. They become invisible and they try to blend in. 

Chairman LEAHY. It could be a kid going back and forth to 

school. 

Ms. WAGNER. Certainly. Kids that go to school, kids that sleep 

on their best friend’s couch, kids unfortunately that turn tricks on 

the street because the first person they find is a john that will pick 

them up, all of those kinds of kids. But they are invisible. They do 

not get counted. They do not come to attention. We need a study 

that is a really thorough prevalence study that helps identify those 

kids and tells us what is the nature of this problem and how do 

we address it? 

Chairman LEAHY. Can such a study be done? Assuming adequate 

funding and all, can it be done? 

Ms. WAGNER. I think it can be done. In 2003, there was a report—a pretty thorough report released by HHS looking at different methodologies of studies, looking at costs for those studies, 

looking at how they could be done. There has been some work done 

very recently in New York with Colombia University. The University of Washington has looked at how to pilot a study. We honestly 

looked at an earmark to try to do a study. However that study is 

done, I don’t think you can make adequate funding and policy decisions without being able to really say how many young people are 

homeless on the street. 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, we’ve talked a lot about rural areas. Mr. 

Kilbane, in Philadelphia, which of course has a lot more population 

than our whole State, do you know how many homeless are living 

in your city? Do you know how many young people need services 

and are not getting them? 

18

Mr. KILBANE. No. I cannot give you an exact count, for a variety 

of reasons. One, is that we can say there are probably anywhere 

between 5,000 to 7,000 kids in care—in the Child Welfare system, 

for example—in the City of Philadelphia. A portion of those are 

going to age out and you have, I guess, some studies that have 

shown a 50 percent chance of being homeless if you age out of the 

foster care system. So, we can look at that. 

We are the largest provider of—

Chairman LEAHY. Explain what you mean by ‘‘age out’’ just so 

that—

Mr. KILBANE. Sure. Essentially, once you turn the age of 18 

you’re no longer eligible to receive support through the Child Welfare system across the country. Now, many cities, towns, or States 

have a process where young people, if not adopted, move from the 

foster care system into adulthood. There is some attempt to transition them, but often they are under-funded and under-serviced so 

many of the kids ending up becoming homeless. We want a 51-bed 

program in Philadelphia. We averaged, in the last 6 months, a census of over 60. So, I have more kids than I have beds for. But because we have an open intake policy which says anyone who shows 

up at our doors the first time is admitted, no questions asked, as 

long as they’re under the age of 21. I think we have a moral obligation to accept them. 

So I can give you—and I think what’s been established—is a 

guesstimate. It’s a guesstimate. But the reality of it is, is that we 

are serving predominately youth between the ages of 17 and a half 

and 21. I’m not even talking about kids who are under the age of 

18, so there might be many, many more. One of the realities is, because we are 80 percent privately funded, Covenant House is, that 

niche population that no one really is serving enough of, is that 

group between 18 and 21. So, we have kind of—

Chairman LEAHY. How do people find out about you? 

Mr. KILBANE. I think what was said was very profound: half of 

the youth who come to Covenant House are referred by other kids. 

So, they’re our best spokepeople. About 10 percent of the kid who 

come to our Basic Center or our crisis center are there through our 

outreach program. You asked the question about, you know, how 

do we get kids who are in need, how do we get them to make the 

right choices? The only answer that I’ve been able to come up with 

is that we have to be present to them. What that means is, I can 

give you a statistic that says about 40 percent of the kids who go 

through our crisis center move from the crisis center to a safe, stable living environment. 

Of the other 60 percent, overwhelmingly most of them return 

back to the crisis center. What that means is, the programs that 

say ‘‘three strikes, you’re out’’ or put a limit on that don’t work. We 

forget, I think, at times that we’re dealing with adolescents, and 

adolescents are very difficult. They want to make their own decisions. They’re going through tremendous turmoil, often. And I’m 

talking about adolescents who are in stable living environments. So 

when you place stress, homeless—

Chairman LEAHY. Even the Chairman was an adolescent at one 

time and I can think of some things I would have wrung my kids’ 

19

necks if they’d done the same thing. If they see this transcript 

they’re going to say, ‘‘Dad, what was that?’’ [Laughter]. 

Mr. KILBANE. I think that we need to be present to them so that 

when they’re ready to make that decision we say, welcome, come 

in. We can’t say, no, you’re out. Now, we can say to them, look, you 

have to make right choices and expect natural consequences of 

those choices. But I think the reality of it is, being present to them 

really helps with success. What we do know is that repeated attempts at trying to straighten your life out, your success rate goes 

up. 

Chairman LEAHY. Would everybody else agree with that? Ms. 

Wagner, you’re shaking your head yes. 

Ms. WAGNER. I’ve actually been involved—when I was in my previous job at Youth Care, we did a number of research projects for 

the University of Washington and really looked at a process of 

young people that the more times they tried, they stayed in care 

longer and longer, and how important it is to have open-door policies. There’s a lot of research that I wish you had time to hear that 

we’d be happy to provide you. 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, when we close this out, we’ll keep the 

record open. If there are other things you want to add, send it to 

the Judiciary Committee and we’ll add it to the record. 

Mr. Hutchins, do you find that same thing, the more they try, 

the better the chance that they may succeed? 

Mr. HUTCHINS. I think one of the best examples is in our shelter. 

The basic expectation is, you get up on time, you do a chore, you 

come back for curfew on time, you go to bed on time. If those basic 

expectations aren’t met, you get a certain accumulation of points 

before it counts as one strike. So, you have a bit of time before you 

can accumulate three strikes. 

Then you have to face being not in the shelter for a night to kind 

of get a little bit of a wake-up call and say, I’m not doing what I 

need to be doing. This is going to happen again when I go back, 

so maybe when I go back I should do the things that I’m supposed 

to do. People sometimes go back out there for a night a couple 

times, but eventually they learn. It’s all about the learning process. 

So, the more times, the better the success. 

Chairman LEAHY. Do you agree with that, Mr. Redmond? 

Mr. REDMOND. Yes. It’s interesting, listening to Jerome’s statistics. We are very similar, even though they’re two different locales: 

44 percent of our kids in our shelter do make it to safe and stable 

housing. The other 50-plus percent, is it the second time, the third 

time, the tenth time? Who knows? Why does it click on the tenth 

time for one kid and it clicked on the first time for another? Who 

knows. But I think they’re all correct. It’s important that we be 

there to give kids multiple chances to succeed. 

Chairman LEAHY. Mr. Hounsou, you have spoken about this. You 

must hear from people. I would assume you hear from kids who 

have made it. Do you? 

Mr. HOUNSOU. Oh, yes. I’ve heard from kids that were homeless. 

Also, it’s a tragic problem in the sense that homeless kids meet 

other homeless kids, and basically they end up either in prostitution, because there’s no other way of coming out and being self-sufficient, and to be self-sufficient, you do kind of have to have a place 

20

to sleep so that you can allow yourself to dream about your future 

and what you want to accomplish tomorrow. But drug abuse and 

prostitution is the number-one thing that hits homeless kids. 

Chairman LEAHY. Well, let us hope that—I’ll be at a meeting 

with 20 or 50 other Senators later today. I’m going to be talking 

about this hearing. Let’s hope we get reauthorization, but let’s also 

do it in a flexible enough way that if we find things that work better than other things, that we can put the emphasis on that. This 

country ought to be able to afford it. Some of us, like myself, feel 

that this country can’t afford not to do this, because we lose part 

of our soul if we don’t. 

We stand in recess. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 11:14 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.] 

[Questions and answers and submissions for the record follow.]

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Æ


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