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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA i-'OCKt 1 GPERATlOi^S' 

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION^OI! MOV 25 A '^i-' 31 

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

IN THE MATTER OF 

BRUNILDA ROSA 

FAA Docket No 

[To be 

assigned] 

FDMS No. 

FAA-2 01I-066 9 

Wednesday, 

November 9, 2 011 

The above-entitled matter came on 

for pre-hearing teleconference at 10:00 a.m. 

BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. 

Administrative Law Judge 

SULLIVAN, 

NOV 2 I 201! 

HEAWWG DOCKET 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W: 

WASHINGTON, D.C 20005-3701 www.nealrgro5S.com 
APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of .the Respondent 

BRUNILDA ROSA, pro se 

2084 Bronx Place East 

Apt. 5J 

Bronx, NY 10462 

(347) 321-3239 

On Behalf of the Complainan_^: 

RYTiJSr LANDERS, ESQ. 

of: Office of the Regional Counsel 

Southern Region 

P.O. Box 20636 

Atlanta, GA 30320 

(404) 305-5200 

(404) 305-5223 (Fax) 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 ww\v.nealrgross.coni 
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JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the 

record in the matter of Brunilda Rosa . This 

is an FAA docket that has not yet been 

assigned, but the FDMS number is FAA~2"01"r^" 

0669. Today is Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 

and the parties have convened b y telephone for 

a litigation scheduling conference. 

T h e Federa l Aviatio n 

Administration is represented by' Ryan M. 

Landers the attorney of record. 

For the purposes of this 

proceeding- I will be referring to the Federal 

Aviation Administration as the FAA from 

henceforth. 

The respondent Brunilda Rosa is 

present and acting pro se. 

Folks, why don't we talk about a 

fev/ preliminary matters befoi'e we get into any 

meat of the case. 

Ms. Rosa, are you planning to 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vjwN nealrgross corn 
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represent yourself in this proceeding or are 

you in the process of trying to obtain an 

attorney to help you ? 

MS . ROSA: No, I'm representing 

myself, I am not in the process of getting 

counsel, a lawyer. ' " 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. There was 

a little noise on my phone, so I wasn't sure 

whether you said you were or you were not? 

MS. ROSA: I'm sorry, I'm sorrvJUDGE SULLIVAM: There was a 

little bit of noise on my phone when you were 

talking, so I'm not quite sure what you said. 

Could you repeat it? 

MS. ROSA: Okay. I'm representing 

mv self. 

JUDGE SULLIVZ\N: Okay. Have you 

had experience representing yourself in a 

trial proceeding before? 

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: What other kinds 

of proceedings have you represented yourself 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTEF^S AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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in, just so that I know? 

MS. ROSA: Vjell, as a matter of 

fact I am -- custody battle, family'-- family 

rssues. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And just 

for our court reporter could you' s"^^a]-r~a" 

little slower so that he can --

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- get everything 

down. 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN You're 

representirig yourself in a family law matter 

it sounds like? 

MS. ROSA: Yes, ma'am. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Have you 

actually been in trial on that matter or are 

you basically going to the Family Lau' Court 

and arguing motions before the judge? 

MS. ROSA: Well, I'm going --

there's different types of -- let me see, how 

can I explain this.' 

NEAL R. GROSS 

• COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRlBf RS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vA"/w.nealrgross coin 
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I do have a lawyer for one part of 

the --of the temporary custody and all that, 

order of protection and all that. But I have 

- - I have for example, I had last v;eek I was 

also in court for another, you know paternity 

issue which, you know I said -- my 'lawyer^ 

wasn't present, and he wasn't -- one thing 

didn't have nothing to do with the other one, 

because one -~ I have -- we 00 back in 

September we went for the -- foi* the child 

custody issue. And then there was an attorney 

appointed to me from the city, which I wasn't 

v;orking, so that vjas in whole and it's in the 

process of you know, continue. 

And now I went back on Thursday or 

Friday last v/eek, I don' t really remember 

exactly vjhat day, and then I had to do it on 

my own and, you know, I guess that'sit. I 

mean, they adjoui"ned the case but I guess that 

section, you know I --I didn't get a lawyer 

for that. And I said, "Well it's a simple 

thing." and I just, you know exposed my 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vwwv.nealrgross.com 
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JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So you've 

had some court appearances in Family Court it 

sounds like? 

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE~SULLIVAN-^ Airl—right-r-—Butfrom v;hat you've told me it doesn't sound like 

you have a lot of experience? 

MS. ROSA: Definitely not. I'm 

not a lav^^yer and I don't -- you know I mean 

you just -- you know --

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

MS. ROSA: -- I mean. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: No, that just 

kind of gives me an idea of what your 

background is in - -

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- in the field. 

Do you understand that in this 

kind of proceeding it can get somewhat complex 

if you decide to contest everything? 

MS. ROSA: Yes, ma' am, I know, I 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 u-ww. nealrgross com 
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JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. That's not 

to say that you shouldn't contest everything, 

you're welcome to do that. 

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: But I" would^HaVe' 

an. expectation of you that you would do a lot 

of homework - -

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- make sure that 

you know what you're doing. So --

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- you have not 

yet filed a written answer to the complaint? 

MS. ROSA: No, I haven't. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you know what 

a answ^er is? 

MS. ROSA: Yes.. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN; Okay. 

MS. ROSA: Hello? 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I'm asking 

you to explain to me what you understand a 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3?01 vAvw. {\ea\TQ(oss. com 
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written answer to be? 

MS. ROSA: Explain to you v/hat a 

written answer should be? 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, essentially 

you have an obligation to file a written 

responseT 

MS. ROSA: Okay. Which I have. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Actually you have 

not . 

MS. ROSA: Okay. I haven't --

well it's been so long. I have -- I have sent 

so many papers to Mr. Landers and explaining 

my -- my case. But I guess not if you said 

that haven't, you know answered. And well at 

this moment I just, you know, just v/ant to get 

this over with and - •• well I don't -- I don't 

understand what an answer is? 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Whatever 

private correspondence that you've been having 

with Mr. Landers --

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: it' s not 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vA*/w.nealrgross.com 
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something that's in my file, 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: So - -

MR. LANDERS: May I interject, 

Your Honor? This is Rvan Landers? 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, juTs't a' 

moment, Mr. Landers. 

MR. LANDERS': Okay . 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 

So- you may have had multiple 

conversations or sent multiple letters to Mr. 

Landers, and I don't necessarily see any of 

that. So what' s in my file right now is a 

Notice of Complaint that Mr. Landers signed. 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're one page 

Request for Hearing, which you signed. 

MS. ROSA: All righf. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then my 

Notice of Scheduling- this telephone 

conference, which I signed. 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 mviv.nealfgross.coni 
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JUDGE SULLIVAN: My file is very 

thin. Now having said that, Mr. Landers, you 

had something to say, sir? 

MR. LANDERS: Yes, ma'am. To 

clarify, you're right that we have -- Ms. Rosa 

and I have been in settlement negoti"artri"onr 

since she filed her appeal. And as of this 

morning when she called me, X think we have 

reached a settlement . I don' t know if you want 

us to discuss that now before we go forward or 

if you would rather us go forward v/ith 

scheduling the conferencing case for whatever 

reason the settlement falls through. 

I just wanted to raise that and 

see how you v;ould like for us to proceed with 

the rest of this --

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

MR. LANDERS: -- telephonic 

conference. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 

Typically I prefer not to be 

involved in the parties' private settlement 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D C. 20005-3701 v/vAv. nealrgross. com 
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conferences because I think you have a right 

to have some privacy for those. 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

MR. LANDERS: I agree. 

•JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then if you 

"d^^ . reach settlement, th^n th"a:t's fine you 

can always go to trial or to hearing on the 

issue on the merits. But what probably would 

work best if the two of you are communicating 

about a settlement is for us to look at our 

calendars and choose a new date for the 

litigation scheduling conference. And then 

between now and the new date if you reach a 

settlement, you can file your settlement 

papers with me and then I can issue the 

appropriate order which would also cancel the 

next conference date. 

MR. LANDERS: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: So , Mr. Landers--

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- how much time 

do you think you might need in discussing this 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vAV'.v.nealrgross.com 
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matter privately with Ms. Rosa? 

MR. LANDERS: From our discussions 

this morning, I think by the end of this week 

we should have this finalized as to what we 

both are agreeing to. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. A"hd~'i"ir 

terms of the paperwork that you might send to 

this office, how much time do you think you 

would need to have Ms. Rosa take a look at it, 

sign off on it, get it back to you and then 

send something to me? 

MR. LANDERS: Assuming that we 

have an agreement on Friday, I v/ould get the 

paperwork in the mail Friday afternoon to Ms . 

Rosa, who I believe is up in New York. I'm in 

Atlanta so she would probably have it on 

Monday. And then I guess what we would do is 

I would have her sign some sort of promissory 

note or whatnot as part of the settlement . So 

it would just be how long it took her to 

complete that and get it back to me. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

f202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 v/vAv.nealrgross.com 
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Ms. Rosa, knowing your schedule 

how'much time v;ould you need, in your opinion, 

to read carefully all the paperwork that Mr. 

Landers is talking about sending to you, and 

then sign it, put it back in the mail to him 

"i"f~rn~f act—you—choose—to—sign—i-t-?-— — 

MS. ROSA: I guess I -- I can get 

it back in a week. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Folks, 

this Friday is a federal holiday. So even --

MS. ROSA: Yes, it is. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. Even if - -

MR. LANDERS: Sorry, Your Honor, I 

forgot about that. 

MS. ROSA: Sorry, yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. Even if you 

started to mail things on Friday, it wouldn't 

quite go out on Friday. So let's take a look 

at: our calendars. And I'm going to give you 

a little bit of a cushion of time because of 

the Thanksgiving holiday and those kinds of 

things. Why don't we reset this litigation 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 \v\w; nealrgross.corn 
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conference for Thursday, December 1st. That's 

about three weeks away, but you are also 

looking at Thanksgiving and the holiday this 

Friday so it's actually not that long of a 

period of time. 

Mr. Landers, starting with your 

calendar do you have time on Thursday, 

December 1st for a second telephone conference 

in the event that you and Ms. Rosa don't reach 

a settlement? 

MR. LANDERS: Yes, Your Honor, I 

am open at any time that day. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

Ms. Rosa, knowing your calendar 

looking at December 1st, do you have time 

available on that day .to reconvene if in fact 

you don't reach a settlement? 

MS. ROSA: Yes, Your Honor, I have 

time. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have any 

particular time during the day that is a 

blackout time where -you can not come? 

<202) 23^-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE , N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-370) \vw\v.nea)'•gross com 
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MS. ROSA: No, no, no, no , no . 

No, this time is fine, around this time is 

fine. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: So why don't we 

plan then on Thursday, December 1st, 2011 at 

~rOT3"0~aTm7 just~l"rke~it~was^today?—^And-whatwill happen is if we reconvene that day. it 

means that you haven't reached a settlement, 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. Rosa, what 

you'll want to do if you don't reach a 

settlement, is to fax to my office a written 

answer which tells me what you agree or 

disagree with in terms of the actual 

complaint. And --

MS. ROSA: Okay. Ma'am. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- I'm going to 

give you my administrative assistant's phone 

number and her name so that if you don' t reach 

a settlement, you can call her and get our fax 

number and get a little bit more information 

about what you have to put in your answer. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

?02) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 iv\'/w.ne2lrn.'oss.coni 
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MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm not going to 

go into a lot of that today because it sounds 

like the tv;o of you are close to settlement. 

MS. ROSA: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: But if'you don't 

reach a settlement, you probably want to fax 

that answer to me no later then Tuesday, the 

29th, which is two days before the next 

conference. 

MS. ROSA: I will. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: My assistant's 

name is Diane Mays M-A-Y-S, just like the 

month of May, her number is 202-366-21--

M S: ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: --2132. 

MS. ROSA: All right. 

•JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll repeat that 

just to m.ake sure 202-366-2132. 

.So what I will do then is I will 

send out a'second order that says this matter 

has been postponed until Thursday, December 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBEF^S 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE . N W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-37D1 wv^w. I iealrgross.com 
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1st, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. I'll also include in 

that order that if settlement is not reached, 

that Ms. Rosa must file a written answer with 

me, with the Office of Hearings and you send 

a courtesy copy to Mr. Landers by Tuesday, 

November 29th, 2011. And then this order will" 

also say that if the two of you reached a n 

agreement, simply file your agreement papers 

prior to December 1, 2011 so that I'll know 

about it and then I ca n cance l that conference 

on Thursday, December 1. 

Mr. Landers, on behalf of your 

client, the FAA do you have anything else that 

v;e should address today? 

Honor. 

MR. LANDERS: I do not. Your 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Ms. Rosa, 

on behalf of yourself is there anything that 

you v/ould like to talk about today or any 

other matter that you need ua to address 

today? 

MS. ROSA: No, Your Honor, no 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 v/w\v. nealrgross. com 
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JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you 

both very much for your presence today. It 

appears our business is complete. Good luck 

in your settlement negotiations. If you do 

not reach settlement, I'll look forward to 

talking to you again on Thursday, December 1, 

2011 at 10:30 in the morning. 

MS. ROSA: Okay. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: With that we can 

go off the record. And I wish you all a good 

day. 

MR. LANDERS: Thank you. Your 

Honor. 

MS. ROSA: You too, thank you. 

(Whereupon, the above hearing was 

concluded at 10:42 a.m.) 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE,. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 VAVW. nea !f gross. com 
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e.\i)jnple6:4 

expectation 8:7 

experience 4:1S 7:8 

explain 5:22 8:22 

9:2 

explaining 9:12 

exposed 6:22 

F.A-A 1:7 3:5,15 

18:13 

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F.A.A-20n-0669 

1:10 

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15:3 

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15:1 1,1S 18:16,22 

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1:21 

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4:11,17,21 5:5,9 

5:12,16,19 7.2,6 

7:12,14,18 8:2,6 

8:10,13-16,19,21 

9:4,8,18,22 10:3.6 

10:9,1649 11:1 

11:17,20 12:5,19 

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17:2.6,12.16,18 

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202-234-4433 

Inc . 
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month 17:14 

morning 1 1:8 13:3 

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multiple 10:10,1 1 

M-A-Y-S 17-13 

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14:9,12,16 15:13 

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17:19 

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take 13:9 14:18 

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19:6 

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202-234-4433 

Inc . 
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telephone 3:S 

10:20 15:8 

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tells 16:13 

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things 14:17.22 

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13:3,8 

three 15:2 

Thursday 6.15 

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18:1! 19:6 

time 12:21 13:8 

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15:15.19,21.22 

16:2.2 

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told 7:7 

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14:8 

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19:7 

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202-366-21 17:14 

202-366-2132 

17:19 

20636 2:18 

2084 2:5 

2132 17:16 

29th 17:9 18:6 

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305-5200 2:21 

305-5223 2:22 

321-3239 2:8 

Neal R. Gross & Co. , 

202-234-443 3 

I n c 
23 

C E R T_^ _F I C A T E 

This is CO cerliiEy that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Brunilda Ro.sa 

Eiefore: US DOT/FAA 

Date: 11-09-11 

Place 1 teleconference 

v/as duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction,- further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHKIGTON, O.C. 20005-3701 v/ww nealrgross.com