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S. HRG. 110–344

NOMINATION HEARING OF THE

HON. EDWARD T. SCHAFER, TO BE

SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 

NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JANUARY 24, 2008

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.agriculture.senate.gov 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

TOM HARKIN, Iowa, Chairman 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont 

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota 

MAX BAUCUS, Montana 

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas 

DEBBIE A. STABENOW, Michigan 

E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska 

KEN SALAZAR, Colorado 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota 

SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia 

RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana 

THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi 

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

MICHEAL D. CRAPO, Idaho 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa

MARK HALVERSON, Majority Staff Director/Chief Counsel 

JESSICA L. WILLIAMS, Chief Clerk 

MARTHA SCOTT POINDEXTER, Minority Staff Director 

VERNIE HUBERT, Minority General Counsel 

(II) 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

HEARING(S):

Nomination Hearing of the Hon. Edward T. Schafer, to be Secretary, U.S. 

Department of Agriculture .................................................................................. 1

Thursday, January 24, 2008

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS 

Harkin, Hon. Tom .................................................................................................... 1

Baucus, Hon. Max .................................................................................................... 4

Brown, Hon. Sherrod ............................................................................................... 12

Casey, Hon. Robert P. Jr. ........................................................................................ 7

Chambliss, Hon. Saxby ........................................................................................... 2

Cochran, Hon. Thad ................................................................................................ 8

Coleman, Hon. Norm ............................................................................................... 9

Conrad, Hon. Kent ................................................................................................... 14

Dorgan, Hon. Byron L. ............................................................................................ 15

Klobuchar, Hon. Amy .............................................................................................. 10

Lincoln, Hon. Blanche L. ......................................................................................... 13

Lugar, Hon. Richard G. ........................................................................................... 5

Nelson, Hon. E. Benjamin ....................................................................................... 5

Pomeroy, Hon. Earl ................................................................................................. 16

Roberts, Hon. Pat ..................................................................................................... 6

Salazar, Hon. Ken .................................................................................................... 8

Thune, Hon. John .................................................................................................... 11

Panel I 

Schafer, Hon. Edward T. ......................................................................................... 18

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Cochran, Hon. Thad ......................................................................................... 42

Crapo, Hon. Mike ............................................................................................. 45

Salazar, Hon. Ken ............................................................................................ 46

Schafer, Hon. Edward T. .................................................................................. 51

DOCUMENT(S) SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

Committee questionnaire and Office of Government Ethics Executive 

Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure Report filed by Hon. 

Edward T. Schafer ........................................................................................ 56

Associated Milk Producers Inc., written letter of support for Hon. Edward 

T. Schafer .............................................................................................................. 80

National Association of Manufacturers, written letter of support for Hon. 

Edward T. Schafer ............................................................................................... 81

State of North Dakota Office of the Governor, written letter of support for 

Hon. Edward T. Schafer ...................................................................................... 82 

QUESTION AND ANSWER: 

Harkin, Hon. Tom: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 84

Page

IV

Baucus, Hon. Max: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 85

Brown, Hon. Sherrod: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 86

Casey, Hon. Robert P. Jr.: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 88

Crapo, Hon. Mike: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 91

Grassley, Hon. Charles: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 92

Leahy, Hon. Patrick J.: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 94

Nelson, Hon. E. Benjamin: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 97

Roberts, Hon. Pat: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 99

Salazar, Hon. Ken: 

Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer ............................................... 101

Schafer, Hon. Edward T.: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Tom Harkin ................................. 106

Written response to questions from Hon. Max Baucus ................................. 107

Written response to questions from Hon. Sherrod Brown ............................ 108

Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey Jr. ..................... 109

Written response to questions from Hon. Mike Crapo .................................. 113

Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley ......................... 114

Written response to questions from Hon. Patrick J. Leahy .......................... 117

Written response to questions from Hon. E. Benjamin Nelson .................... 122

Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts .................................. 125

Written response to questions from Hon. Ken Salazar ................................. 127

(1)

NOMINATION HEARING OF THE 

HON. EDWARD T. SCHAFER, TO BE 

SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 

AGRICULTURE 

Thursday, January 24, 2008

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 

NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:36 p.m., in room 

328–A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Tom Harkin, Chairman of the committee, presiding. 

Present or submitting a statement: Senators Harkin, Conrad, 

Baucus, Lincoln, Brown, Nelson, Salazar, Casey, Klobuchar, 

Chambliss, Lugar, Roberts, Cochran, Coleman, and Thune. 

STATEMENT OF HON. TOM HARKIN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

IOWA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION AND FORESTRY 

Chairman HARKIN. Good afternoon. The Senate Committee on 

Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry will come to order. 

This afternoon, we meet for a hearing on the nomination of Edward T. Schafer, former Governor of North Dakota, for Secretary 

of Agriculture. I welcome to the Committee Governor Schafer. I 

also want to recognize and welcome your wife, Nancy, and your 

daughter, Kari, as well as a good number of North Dakotans who 

are here with us this afternoon. Of course, you are flanked by our 

distinguished colleagues, Senator Conrad, Senator Dorgan, and 

Congressman Pomeroy. 

It is a fact too seldom fully appreciated, I think, that the responsibilities of the Secretary of Agriculture touch the lives of all Americans and millions of others around the world on a daily basis. 

Each and every one of us depends on our food and agricultural system and have a vital interest in the wide range of activities at the 

Department of Agriculture. 

In my State of Iowa, strong, forward-looking leadership at the 

Department of Agriculture is critically important. Agriculture is 

the cornerstone of our economy. We treasure our way of life in our 

small towns and rural communities. We understand the true value 

of soil and water and other natural resources. We are committed 

to conserving them and improving them and saving them for future 

generations. We are optimistic about our growing role in producing 

energy and bio-based products for the future. 

2

So it is encouraging, Governor Schafer, that you also come from 

a State with similar deep connection and appreciation for agriculture and rural communities. I commend you for the pride you 

take and the inspiration you draw from your family’s heritage in 

agriculture and rural communities. Your experience as Governor of 

North Dakota should serve you well as Secretary of Agriculture. 

Among your key responsibilities is faithfully carrying out the 

laws that Congress writes and the President signs. Currently, we 

face a big challenge in completing a new farm bill for you to implement. The Senate and House of Representatives have each passed 

their versions of the farm bill. Both bills have significant improvements and reforms to benefit agriculture, rural communities, and 

our nation as a whole. 

In our Senate bill, we continue and improve a solid farm income 

protection system. We make critical new investments to preserve 

our resources, promote rural energy initiatives, alleviate hunger 

and malnutrition, and boost the economy and quality of life in 

rural communities. Unfortunately, we do not yet have the support 

of the President for funding the critical forward-looking investments crafted by the Agriculture Committees and approved by both 

the House and the Senate. We have a good deal of hard work and 

negotiation with the White House ahead of us on the new farm bill. 

Yet with my colleagues and with my Ranking Member, Senator 

Chambliss, with our two counterparts on the House side, we have 

begun to work together. I believe that we will reach agreements 

and we will have a bill for the President in short order. 

For Governor Schafer, we look forward to working with you. We 

are counting on your help in working out differences in order to 

enact a new, sound farm bill for our nation. 

Again, we welcome you to the Committee. We look forward to 

your testimony. 

I will now turn to our Ranking Member, Senator Chambliss. 

STATEMENT OF HON. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF GEORGIA 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 

Governor Schafer, welcome to the Agriculture Committee. I am 

very pleased to see that you are surrounded by three folks who 

know and understand agriculture. Senator Dorgan and Senator 

Conrad, obviously I have had the pleasure of serving with over 

here, and my good friend, Earl Pomeroy, I had the pleasure of serving with for 8 years in the House and working very closely with 

all three of these gentlemen for what we know to be the best agricultural products produced in the world today. I am pleased that 

they are here to show their support to you. 

First of all, I want to show you something. This is a bag of Georgia peanuts, Governor, and——

[Laughter.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS [continuing]. You all don’t grow many of 

these in North Dakota. I hope you don’t start growing any, because 

we certainly can’t grow wheat, soybeans, and corn the way you do 

in North Dakota, but we grow a darn good peanut and I want to 

make sure you get plenty of them at your office to start you off 

right. 

3

[Laughter.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. And we will even throw in some Diet Cokes. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Mr. Chairman, I do thank you for holding 

this important hearing to consider the nomination of Governor Edward Schafer for the position of Secretary of the United States Department of Agriculture. It is a credit to you and your staff in the 

middle of farm bill negotiations that you have taken the time to attend to this important business, and I look forward to reporting the 

nomination favorably out of committee and quickly approving the 

nomination on the Senate floor. A swift confirmation will ensure 

that the Department of Agriculture has the necessary leadership to 

fulfill its mission on behalf of the American people. 

Governor Schafer, I congratulate you on the nomination by the 

President. I would also like to welcome your wife, Nancy, and your 

daughter, Kari, to the hearing today. I understand and regret that 

your children Tom, Ellie, and Eric couldn’t be here, but certainly 

they are all justly proud of you and I commend them for their great 

support of you. I hope your visit today will be a short yet productive one, and I am certain it will. I know it is a proud day for you 

and your family and for the entire State of North Dakota. 

The Senate is pleased that the President has extended his confidence in you and provided us with an opportunity to fill this critical position in timely fashion. Your predecessor, Secretary 

Johanns, established a high standard for the position of Secretary, 

and certainly Chuck Conner has served admirably as Acting Secretary in his absence. 

As every member of the Senate Committee on Agriculture well 

knows, the position of Secretary is critically important not only to 

America’s agricultural producers, but to every U.S. citizen that consumes products that our farmers produce. Arguably, no member of 

the President’s cabinet has a greater or broader responsibility than 

the Secretary of Agriculture. From overseeing the major commodity 

and conservation programs to administering the food and nutrition 

programs, the Secretary of Agriculture touches almost every sector 

of our society today. 

Our most basic strength as a nation resides in our ability to 

produce a safe and affordable food supply. We are blessed that we 

can share this bounty not only with our citizens, but with other nations, as well. American agriculture is at a critical intersection and 

you are coming in at a very critical time, with the promise of a new 

farm bill in one direction and the uncertainty of government inaction on the other. Unless Congress and the administration can 

work collaboratively to pass a farm bill, our farmers and ranchers, 

despite the high prices they currently enjoy, will be forced to go to 

their lenders without the strong backing of the Federal Government. In today’s uncertain economic climate, it would be irresponsible to abdicate our responsibilities to rural America in the pursuit 

of legislative options that do not enjoy broad Congressional support. 

As you know, the U.S. Senate overwhelmingly passed the Senate 

version of the farm bill in a strong bipartisan way under the leadership of Senator Harkin. Such broad support of farm policy is unprecedented in the Senate’s long history. It is our hope to pass a 

4

farm bill and have it signed into law in the short term so that we 

can then turn toward the important business with the Department 

of Agriculture of implementing that farm bill. 

The fact that the President nominated you speaks to your high 

level of qualification to assist us in the final stages of the farm bill 

process and furthermore represent our farmers and ranchers 

around the world in critical trade negotiations. 

So Governor, I will submit the rest of my statement for the 

record, but I just want you to know that we really do look forward 

to moving this nomination, to working very closely with you as we 

complete the conference process on the farm bill, and look forward 

to working with you on the implementation of that farm bill. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Chambliss. 

Normally, the Chair would recognize the Senators in the order 

that they come, but I think today, since this is a nomination hearing, I would go back and forth, one side to the other, and I know 

Senator Baucus has a scheduling problem anyway. Any comments, 

if you keep them relatively short, I am sure would be appreciated 

by our nominee and all, so I would recognize Senator Baucus. 

STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF MONTANA 

Senator BAUCUS. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the indulgence of my colleagues and I will be quite brief. 

Governor, I very much welcome you to Washington to your new 

job and I especially compliment you on the choice of Nancy——

[Laughter.] 

Senator BAUCUS [continuing]. A Turner, Montana, lady, next to 

North Dakota—not too far from North Dakota, a little closer to 

Canada, but a little closer to North Dakota, and so you are flanked 

not just by two great Senators and a great House member, but also 

by your wife, who very much understands agriculture and I know 

will be a very strong advocate for agriculture in your household, so 

I thank you very, very much. 

You in your prepared statement said that Abraham Lincoln 

called the Department of Agriculture ‘‘The People’s Department.’’ I 

just might say that sometimes we wonder here if the Department 

really is still the People’s Department based upon what your predecessor sometimes said. It seems to many of us that the Department 

has been a little more concerned with Washington Post and Wall 

Street Journal editorials than it is with real folks, the farmers and 

ranchers in our States. So if the Department really is the People’s 

Department, and I think that is an apt quote, we clearly want it 

to remain the People’s Department, and that is farmers and ranchers, not East Coast editorial writers. 

I am also a little concerned, frankly, that when the Secretary, 

your predecessor said that there was no need for an agriculture 

disaster assistance title that is in this farm bill, there clearly is because you never know when disaster is going to strike. If the title 

is already in place in there, I think it just helps our farmers and 

ranchers have a sense that they can continue to farm and that 

their livelihood, that they can stick with it. 

5

I am also a little concerned when your predecessor wanted to 

close a lot of Farm Service Agency offices. The number of offices to 

be closed—announced to be closed in Montana—is about 1.2 percent of the State FSA budget, but it would close about 14 percent 

of our State’s offices. As you know, in the farm bill we have said, 

no, no, we are not going to close most of these FSA offices. We put 

a little limit on it so that the closures are more related to efficiency 

and not as widespread as is in the bill. 

Further, we are a little concerned when the President says he is 

not going to sign a farm bill that is one penny over baseline, yet 

his own budget baseline is $8 billion over. It just seems to us 

that—and we urge you when you are confirmed to go back and review that position so that when you are standing up for farmers 

and ranchers, that maybe you modify that statement along the 

lines that make more sense for agriculture. 

Finally, I just wanted to thank you very much and remind you, 

and I know Nancy is going to remind you, that agriculture is our 

most important industry in Montana. I am sure she has deep roots 

still in Turner. Welcome, and I just tell you to fight for agriculture 

and work very closely with this Committee. The farm bill, as you 

know, passed by 80 votes—79 votes. We put all politics aside totally. This is a totally nonpartisan bill. We want to do what is right 

for agriculture, and I very much know that you will approach your 

job in very much the same fair mind. 

So thank you very much and I wish you good luck. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Lugar? 

STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD G. LUGAR, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA 

Senator LUGAR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, Governor Schafer. Congratulations on your nomination. I 

would just encourage you to work with the President, to work with 

the cabinet. We are in difficult times economically in our country 

and job creation in agriculture is as important as job creation everywhere else. Stability of rural banks and our countryside is going 

to require teamwork with the Secretary of the Treasury, Commerce, as well a the administration. So you come in at a time of 

crisis, but it is very important that you be confirmed quickly so 

that we have a seat at the table and we look forward to working 

with you. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much. 

Senator Nelson? 

STATEMENT OF HON. E. BENJAMIN NELSON, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA 

Senator NELSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, want to express my congratulations and appreciation for your willingness to 

take on a very difficult responsibility at a difficult time. You are 

stepping into the middle of a process because of the departure of 

your predecessor and I am hopeful that as you step into this, as 

we have discussed, that you will find that you can be a partner 

6

with the Chairman and the Ranking Member of this Committee as 

well as with the House committees and work together with us as 

committees to bring together a farm bill or a Food and Energy Security Act for 2007 so that we can move forward in so many different areas. 

I know that there is a lot of frustration with the closure of the 

ten FSA offices in Nebraska. We didn’t feel that that was done in 

an appropriate fashion any more than we think it was in other 

States. It was not well thought through. I hope that because of the 

inclusion of that in the farm bill, that you will look at that very 

carefully when you get into the office to work with us, given that 

legislation. 

I have expressed to you my concern about how we can work together to put more pressure on certain Asian countries with respect 

to the exporting of our beef. We run into challenges, continuing 

challenges in Japan to get to the level of exports that we were before the BSE scare, and the same thing is true in the Republic of 

Korea. I have worked very closely with their Ambassadors. I felt 

that I did not have adequate support from the USDA in that effort. 

I would have to describe the effort that I saw as anemic, at best. 

I think if you can help us in a robust fashion, we can make the 

difference not only with respect to beef, but with other areas of 

trade that involve agricultural products. 

There have been improper payments. I think you have probably 

followed that. A person doesn’t have to know much about Lexis or 

Nexis to find out if somebody is alive or dead, certainly with respect to the payments. Now, we have put that language into the 

bill even though it was not necessary to be in the bill, but it was 

almost like saying, and this time we mean it. Get it right. So you 

are going to have us looking over your shoulder from time to time 

saying, now are you getting it right? 

But I think you can see that there is a great deal of comity—

sometimes comedy as well—but comity within this Committee, different ideas about how to go about things, but a generally positive 

atmosphere with which to work. 

So what I would like to say is you don’t have to be caught in a 

vise. You can escape the vise by becoming a partner with this Committee and I hope you that you will find a friendly partnership 

with us. We intend for that to be the case, and from our years together as Governors and neighbors, you know exactly how to do 

that and I am looking forward to working with you. My congratulations again to Nancy and to your daughter and to the North Dakotans for this nomination. I hope we can get it done quickly. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Senator Nelson. 

Senator Roberts? 

STATEMENT OF HON. PAT ROBERTS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF KANSAS 

Senator ROBERTS. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for scheduling 

this hearing so quickly upon our return, and hopefully Congress as 

a whole will move as expeditiously this year, not only on the stimulus package but the farm bill, as well, and the whole series of 

issues where we have to move. 

7

I am really pleased to be here today on behalf and to lend my 

support for our nominee. I know that we have met on many occasions and discussed agriculture program policy, and so I simply associate myself with the very good remarks of my colleagues. 

Being from North Dakota, I think we have to underscore that he 

has a solid understanding of the importance of agriculture, and in 

particular the importance of production agriculture. I am always 

amazed lately that, I don’t know, for some reason, about the lack 

of understanding over the value and the contribution of production 

agriculture to our society today. This is something that has to be 

worked on over time. 

We really need somebody, as has been referred to, with a healthy 

dose of common sense to be the lead spokesman for U.S. agriculture, standing up to attacks on our farm programs from those 

who either don’t appreciate it or don’t understand that America’s 

farmers and ranchers still produce the safest and most abundant 

and affordable food supply in the world. They produce not only for 

our country, but for a very troubled and hungry world. 

You are riding with the Conrad, Dorgan, and Pomeroy posse, and 

they know that and they have been outstanding spokesmen and 

champions for production agriculture. They have been singing that 

anthem ever since the Sons of the Pioneers sang for Roy and Dale. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator ROBERTS. That may date Earl a little bit, but I don’t 

know. 

And so I hope you are up for it, Governor. I have a question over 

direct payments, but I will yield at this time on behalf of other 

members and we will wait for the questions. Welcome aboard. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Roberts. 

Senator Casey? 

STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT P. CASEY JR., A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Senator CASEY. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Governor, 

thank you for your willingness to put yourself forth as a nominee 

for this office. We appreciate that and we appreciate your service 

as Governor of your State. It is a commitment that I know that 

your family makes, as well. We are grateful for that. And as Senator Roberts and others have said, you have got quite a team 

around you, two distinguished Senators and a member of the 

House with you. It is quite a line-up. You have got a good team 

around you. 

I want to thank you, also, for taking the time to sit in my office 

back in early November to talk about some of the challenges that 

Pennsylvania faces. It is a major, really, the No. 1 industry in our 

State. We talked at that time about dairy, and people on this Committee know that I have talked a lot about this, but the cost of production for dairy farmers is a huge concern and you know as well 

as I do, these people, these families lead lives of struggle, very difficult lives when the cost of everything in their life that is relevant 

to their cost of production is going through the roof, feed and fuel 

and other costs, as well. I will have a number of questions probably 

for the record to submit to you to answer. 

8

I guess one thing that is looming over this hearing today, and I 

think any of our discussions about the country, about our economy, 

even in the context of short-term economic challenges, is the farm 

bill. We are very concerned about it, and I am not just concerned, 

we are disturbed by the President’s veto threat. I know you will be 

asked about that today and we would ask you to talk about that 

in terms of responding to your sense of that, why you think he is 

headed in that direction. If he is, I hope he changes course. 

But we are very concerned about that and very concerned about, 

after all the work that got done in this Committee by our Chairman and Ranking Member and everyone at this table, and some 

did a lot more than others. So many people worked very hard. The 

staff worked month after month at times when it seemed the thing 

was doomed and it would come back to life and it got done in a 

bipartisan way. So we are very concerned about the unraveling of 

that bipartisan consensus by an action that the President would 

take. 

So we would ask you to speak to that, but we are just grateful 

that you would put yourself forward as a nominee and we look forward to hearing your responses to questions. Thank you very 

much. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Casey. 

Senator Cochran? 

STATEMENT OF HON. THAD COCHRAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI 

Senator COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, thank you. We appreciate your 

holding this nomination hearing in such a timely manner. It is important, as we all realize, for the position of Secretary of the Department of Agriculture to be filled as we negotiate a conference 

agreement with the House on the farm bill. I hope the Committee 

and the Senate will take prompt action to approve this well-qualified nominee as the new Secretary. 

Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the balance of my 

remarks be printed in the record 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Thad Cochran can be found on 

page 42 in the appendix.] 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Senator Cochran. 

Senator Salazar? 

STATEMENT OF HON. KEN SALAZAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF COLORADO 

Senator SALAZAR. Thank you very much, Chairman Harkin. Let 

me first congratulate Governor Schafer and let you know that you 

are surrounded by three people who I consider to be champions for 

rural America and champions for agriculture. /Senator Dorgan, 

Senator Conrad, and Congressman Pomeroy bring that voice to 

what I sometimes call the forgotten America in a way that is unequal here to the U.S. Senate and to the U.S. House of Representatives. So you have surrounded yourself with some supporters. 

Therefore, I think that your nomination here is not in question, 

but you do have, I know, some challenges ahead, I think especially 

when you look at the fact that you will have a very short time, 

frankly, to be in the position of Secretary of Agriculture, and so I 

9

want to say just two or three things and I will submit my formal 

statement for the record. 

The first is, like with all of us, your Department affects my State 

in a very significant way. We have 31 million acres of farmland 

and ranchland. In addition, we have 31,000 farmers and ranchers. 

In addition to that, there are about 14 million acres which are 

under the jurisdiction of USDA which are either Forest Service, 

U.S. National Forests, or grasslands. So you affect a huge percentage of the lands in my State and there will be a host of issues that 

we want to work with you on. 

Two priorities for me, just off the box, I join the rest of this Committee in saying we need to get that farm bill done and we need 

to get it done very soon and we need the administration to be helpful to us as we get that across the finish line. I think that coming 

in when you have 1 year left, it would be a great thing if what you 

can do is to help us implement the bill. You know, it is one thing 

to pass a bill. It is another thing to make sure that it gets implemented in the right way, and hopefully you can join the rest of us 

in being Ambassadors for what I consider to be one of the best 

farm bills that I think this country has ever seen. 

Finally, in my State, with respect to Forest Service lands, we are 

getting eaten up by a beetle called the bark beetle, which has attacked about 1.5 million acres of lodgepole pine. It is having a dramatic effect throughout the Western slope. It has spread out into 

Wyoming and into Utah and even up into Idaho, and so it is an 

issue that I have worked on for several years and I will look forward to working with you on that, as well. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Ken Salazar can be found on 

page 46 in the appendix.] 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Senator Salazar. 

Senator Coleman? 

STATEMENT OF HON. NORM COLEMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF MINNESOTA 

Senator COLEMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, 

thank you for holding this hearing and your efforts to move this 

nomination along. I am thrilled that our neighbor, my neighbor and 

friend has been nominated by the President to be Secretary of Agriculture. I wholeheartedly support this nomination and I look forward to us moving it quickly. We need you now. 

It is great to have somebody from our neighborhood who understands the concerns and needs of certainly our folks in the Red 

River Valley, some of the special needs they have when natural disaster strikes, but just across the border. As former Mayor of St. 

Paul, I think history shows that it was actually North Dakotans 

who may have founded my city, so there is a long-term tie there. 

It has been mentioned about the bipartisan nature of this Committee. With all the bickering that goes on in Washington, with all 

this kind of negative partisan divide, this Committee has been a 

haven, a safe haven from that. Senator Conrad’s leadership on the 

farm bill, working with those of us on the other side of the aisle, 

and that was never an issue was what is right for farmers, what 

is right for American agriculture. That relationship goes across the 

10

board with Senator Dorgan and Congressman Pomeroy. So it is a 

special place and I think you bring special qualities to that. 

I have often found that a key to negotiation is two things, humility and a capacity to listen. I have a friend of mine, Ward Braham, 

who told me a story one time that he was on a flight coming back 

to Washington. He sat down next to this guy. They had this tremendous conversation the whole flight and they kind of became 

good buddies, and at the end of the flight, he got up and said, well, 

what do you do, and the response was, ‘‘I am Ed Schafer. I am the 

Governor of North Dakota.’’ He never bothered—didn’t start his 

conversation with his position. He sat there and listened with a 

sense of humility and created a relationship. 

We are going to be in the midst of some negotiations of a farm 

bill and I think it requires a good listener. It requires a sense of 

humility. The administration doesn’t always get it right, and perhaps we don’t, either. But I think you bring those qualities, and 

then perhaps most important, where I started, as someone who 

cares deeply about American agriculture, and certainly from this 

Senator’s perspective has a unique understanding of the needs that 

we have. 

So I think we have found an individual, Mr. Chairman, who has 

all these qualifications and I hope we move this nomination along 

very quickly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Coleman. 

Senator Klobuchar? 

STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you, Chairman, for holding this 

hearing. Congratulations, Governor. I noticed that the Chairman 

has made sure that all of your neighbors are here at the end of the 

table, with Minnesota and South Dakota. It may have had something to do with seniority, but we are here for you. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. I actually was thinking about our common 

border in North Dakota and seeing all these fine Senators and Congressman Pomeroy up here, a story that I think I told Senator 

Conrad, and that was when I first started running for the U.S. 

Senate. I called Collin Peterson. I didn’t know him very well and 

I said, if I drive 4 hours to Detroit Lakes, will you meet with me 

for 15 minutes? He said, OK. I said, we will talk agriculture policy. 

I said, OK. I drive there. I met with him for about an hour and 

I had this chart that I had put together of all the direct payments 

and countercyclical payments and I was trying to figure out how 

it all worked and he finally said, ‘‘You know what? The farmers 

just want a fair deal. No one understands this stuff except ten people in the country and nine of them live in North Dakota.’’

[Laughter.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. So I decided that four of them are right 

here up at this table. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. As you know, Governor, Minnesota is the 

sixth-largest agricultural producing State in the Nation and the 

fourth-largest represented on this Committee. We care a lot about 

11

this farm bill. So my message to you is that we have to get this 

farm bill done. 

I have heard it not just from farmers in our State. I went to 47 

counties over the recess, from Southern Minnesota way up to—I 

am going to attend Senator Conrad’s marketplace event up in 

Grand Forks, and I heard it again and again. But I also heard it 

from people who were in non-agriculture jobs, in smaller towns 

who are seeing this revolution that the 2002 farm bill produced. 

And I also heard it from hunters at the National Pheasants Forever event, who really want to get this done. 

And I would add one thing. I know we talked and you pledged 

to continue to work with us on some of the subsidy reforms, especially the amendment that I had for the AGI reform, as we go forward and I hope that will be part of the conference discussions and 

discussions with the White House. I think the money should be 

going to family farmers, so thank you very much. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. 

Senator Thune? 

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN THUNE, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF SOUTH DAKOTA 

Senator THUNE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Governor, welcome to the Senate——

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you. 

Senator THUNE. And to the Senate Agriculture Committee, where 

you find out that even though you are the star of this hearing, you 

have to listen to all of us talk before you get your chance. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator THUNE. And to be accompanied with fully one-half of the 

Dakota Caucus in the Congress, and Earl and I were—I wish I 

could say 2 percent of the House when we were the Dakota Caucus 

over there, but we could have had our meetings in a very small 

room. 

I do think that when you represent our area of the country, you 

have a great appreciation for the importance of agriculture. I think 

in South Dakota today, the wind chills were 30 below and the actual temperature was about seven below and I suspect it is even 

colder than that in North Dakota, but people in our——

Senator CONRAD. No, no, it is not. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator THUNE. Once again, Conrad is trying to manipulate the 

numbers, but——

[Laughter.] 

Senator CONRAD. South Dakota payments just went down. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator THUNE. But in any event, I think you have to be a tough 

breed to live in the Upper Midwest and this farm bill is really important. It is important that we get it done, and I think you know 

that. I know the administration has not been happy with some of 

the provisions in either the House or the Senate bill or how it is 

paid for, for that matter. But I know one thing is certain and that 

is that we need to get a bill through. Our farmers and ranchers 

need it, not just in the Dakotas but all across this country and I 

12

think we have struck a very good balance in a strong bipartisan 

bill here that addresses those needs. 

One of the issues, of course, that I visited with you with when 

you were in my office was the importance of renewable energy in 

that whole equation now and how that has dramatically impacted 

prosperity in agriculture in places like the Dakotas and it importance. Senator Nelson and I worked closely on some provisions in 

the energy title of the farm bill that I think will help move forward, advance biofuel, cellulosic ethanol, and I think that there are 

some great opportunities there, and so that is why moving this bill 

is important not just from the food and fiber standpoint, but also 

from the fuel standpoint. I know that we are going to count heavily 

on your negotiating abilities because they will be tested based on 

some of the differences that exist between us and the White House 

on the bill. 

The other thing I will mention just briefly, because it is an important part of this farm bill, as well, is the conservation title and 

the sustainability of agriculture is—that title is so critical to sustainability of agriculture. I believe that farmers and ranchers are 

great stewards of the land. I also think that they are being asked 

to do more and more to maximize their production and we have got 

to give them the tools that they need so that they can manage and 

care for those lands. It is really important in our State from a wildlife habitat standpoint, as well. So many of the provisions in this 

farm bill are very good for conservation and I hope we can keep 

those in the final bill. 

I would just conclude by saying again that we welcome your willingness to take on this position and look forward to moving very 

quickly to get you confirmed. Mr. Chairman, we hope that that will 

happen soon and we will be able to move the nomination to the 

floor of the Senate and get you up and going on the job, and hopefully you can work with us to get a farm bill passed. Thank you. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Thune. 

Senator Brown? 

STATEMENT OF HON. SHERROD BROWN, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF OHIO 

Senator BROWN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor, nice to see 

you again. Thank you for joining us. My only real advice would be 

to listen to one of the best delegations here, your two Senators and 

your Congressman, who have been great advocates for North Dakota and for family farmers around our country. 

Just a couple of things briefly. I held a series of roundtables with 

farmers in all parts of my State last year and one of the ideas that 

came out of that is something that Senator Roberts and many of 

us worked on and the Chairman did, on the whole issue of average 

crop revenue, to build the kind of revenue protection that we need, 

as you and I spoke about. That is part of the farm bill. We reached 

a compromise that I think will work and I am hopeful that we can 

continue to work together on that as the farm bill is signed into 

law. 

Second, I would add the importance of the nutrition title. Senator 

Lugar and Senator Lincoln and I have worked on both food bank 

and food stamp provisions. We are trying to get just some only $40 

13

million into the stimulus package or something soon to help sort 

of bridge the gap, with food banks under more duress, they will tell 

you around the country, than at any time in the last 20 years, to 

help them in the time between now and the time the farm bill is 

signed into law. So your support—I talked to the Secretary of the 

Treasury about that—your support there would be helpful. 

I welcome you and look forward to working with you in the year 

ahead. Thanks. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator Brown. 

Senator Lincoln? 

STATEMENT OF HON. BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS 

Senator LINCOLN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and a special 

thanks to you. Glad to be back. I enjoyed our visit yesterday, Governor. Thank you so much for coming by. I am pleased to welcome 

you to the Committee today and congratulate you on your nomination and look forward to working with you and certainly gaining a 

better understanding of your approaches and how you intend to 

tackle this job. Coming from a seventh-generation Arkansas farm 

family, it is near and dear to my heart, as you saw yesterday, and 

I look forward to seeing how you will approach so many of the 

issues that we face in this country. 

I certainly want to thank our colleagues there, Senators Conrad 

and Dorgan and Congressman Pomeroy, who I came into the House 

with, for their introductory statements. Senator Conrad, in particular, has been a great colleague to work with in crafting this 

year’s farm bill. He has made a great effort to craft a bill, I think, 

that really meets the diversity of our country, our farmers, and we 

appreciate that and look forward to continuing that work in what 

comes through the conference. 

Governor Schafer, just one quick thing. I tried to make this point 

yesterday and you were enormously patient and listened to what 

I had to say. You are going to be entering this position at a critical 

time. We work a lot on the Agricultural Committee throughout the 

5 years or 6 years of a farm bill, but critically bringing a farm bill 

to the floor and getting a bill to the President is enormously important. It is a time when we come together to try to create a final 

farm bill, and as the country approaches what I think is somewhat 

of a worrisome milestone in our history, because projections are 

showing us that in the next couple of years, more than likely, we 

are going to see for the first time in the history of our country a 

trade deficit in agriculture. We are seeing ourselves in the circumstances of an unbelievably competitive marketplace globally 

and our hope is that we can certainly provide the kind of support 

that growers need. 

I believe one of the most important goals that we have in striving 

to bring together a farm bill that is worthy of the people that we 

serve here in this country is ensuring a safe and domestic supply 

of food, and to achieve that goal, we really worked to provide our 

domestic growers with a basic safety net that all of those growers 

can work with so that they are able to compete in an already very 

14

heavily distorted world market, and there are lots of charts that 

show us that. 

We are excited about what we can do and hope that you will take 

every effort to engage yourself in this. I think maybe at some point, 

you can fill in for us what that engagement is going to be in terms 

of the farm bill, so we look forward to it. Thank you. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman HARKIN. Now, I get to recognize a senior member of 

this Committee, also Chairman of the Budget Committee, and I 

might say, Governor, one of the real architects of the farm bill that 

we have before us now, and of course past farm bills, but especially 

this one. I can say without any fear of contradiction that without 

his help, we wouldn’t have had the kind of budget that we needed 

and the money that we needed and working on helping us get all 

the numbers lined up and getting everything put together so that 

we had that great 79 to 14 vote on the Senate floor. Of course, I 

refer to our great friend and our great colleague, Senator Kent 

Conrad. 

STATEMENT OF HON. KENT CONRAD, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA 

Senator CONRAD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and special thanks 

to you for your gracious willingness to move this hearing up. We 

would very much like to have the nominee, Governor Schafer, be 

able to enter the chamber for the President’s State of the Union 

with the rest of the cabinet. I deeply appreciate, Mr. Chairman, 

what you have done to make that a possibility. 

I also want to thank our Ranking Member, Senator Chambliss, 

for his accommodations and his support of the nomination. We certainly appreciate that. It is really my privilege to present our Governor, our former Governor of North Dakota, Ed Schafer, the first 

North Dakotan ever nominated for the position of Secretary of Agriculture. That is a great honor for our State and the people of 

North Dakota are enthusiastic and excited at the prospect. 

I should, as part of full disclosure, indicate that the Governor 

and I for many years were brothers-in-law, so I consider him family, and I would ask my colleagues not to hold that against him. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator CONRAD. The circumstance that we face here is a very 

important one because all of you know, who have labored so hard 

to produce a farm bill that came out of this Committee without a 

single dissenting vote—I don’t remember that ever happening before, and I have been through four farm bills here—and then to go 

to the floor and get a vote of 79 to 14 with four Senators who were 

absent announced in favor of the bill, that would have given us 83 

votes. You have to go back a very long time in the history of this 

country to find a bipartisan support of that magnitude for any farm 

bill. I think it is a testimony to the work of this Committee and 

really the extraordinary work of every member of this Committee. 

If there was ever a team effort, it was this farm bill, and the people in this room, I would say to you, Governor, each and every one 

of them played a key role in the deliberations of this bill. So often, 

you have a few people that are really active. Not on this Committee. Every single member really contributed to this bill. 

15

This is a critical time, because we have passed the House, we 

have passed the Senate, we are in Conference Committee. We face 

the Presidential veto threat. It is very much my hope that Governor Schafer will help bridge the divide, because this is critically 

important legislation for the country. 

Our economy is in trouble. We are in the midst of writing a stimulus package. There is, I would submit, no more important piece 

of legislation in terms of stimulus for this economy than this farm 

and energy legislation that is before the Congress now. And so we 

are going to need your help, and I am confident that working with 

Governor Schafer as Secretary of Agriculture and with the White 

House that we can come to an accommodation that is a responsible 

and principled compromise. 

With that, again, my colleagues, I want to commend Governor 

Schafer to you. And again, I want to thank Chairman Harkin for 

your very rapid and again gracious response of my request to move 

this hearing up so that he would at least have the possibility of 

going into that chamber with the rest of the President’s cabinet. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Senator Conrad. 

And now our other colleague, the esteemed Senator from Congress, Senator Dorgan, Chairman of Indian Affairs, also a colleague 

of mine on the Appropriations Committee, where he chairs the Energy and Water Appropriations Subcommittee. But I can also tell 

you he is an individual who constantly keeps tabs on agriculture 

on our committee and is always involved on the floor and in all our 

deliberations when it comes to agriculture. So again, we again welcome our colleague, Senator Dorgan, to the Committee. 

STATEMENT OF HON. BYRON L. DORGAN, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA 

Senator DORGAN. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and 

thanks to the Committee members for hearing us. It is obvious to 

all of you, I hope, that we North Dakotans are very proud that 

President Bush has nominated one of our own to be Secretary of 

Agriculture and I am here to offer very strong support for the nomination of Ed Schafer to be the new Secretary. 

Governor Schafer, as you know, has served two terms as North 

Dakota’s chief executive. He, I think, has firsthand experience on 

many of the issues that confront us at the USDA. Rural development, trade, energy, conservation, farm policy, all of these are 

issues that he has dealt with. So he brings, I think, a lot of experience to the job. Governing a farm State like North Dakota has prepared him well for this job. 

I might say that in all the years that we have worked together 

and I have observed Ed Schafer, only on one occasion did I observe 

him actually shrinking from a challenge and that was because he 

served as Governor in a neighborhood where our neighboring State, 

Minnesota, decided to elect a professional wrestler as Governor——

[Laughter.] 

Senator DORGAN.—Jesse Ventura—and then Minnesota residents 

decided to begin wearing T-shirts that said, ‘‘Our Governor can 

beat up on your Governor.’’ North Dakotas in response began to 

wear T-shirts saying, ‘‘Our Governor says, prove it.’’

[Laughter.] 

16

Senator DORGAN. Governor Schafer seemed sensibly uninterested 

and nervous about that. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator DORGAN. But we have worked together. The three of us 

have worked with Governor Schafer and we are here to say this is 

an important job. But even more important than that, this is an 

important time. We have got to get a farm bill done. And you 

know, this is not about a bunch of us with blue suits and bright 

lights. It is about a family that gets up this morning at 5:30 to do 

chores and living out there under a yard light and wonders whether there is going to be a decent safety net when trouble comes. 

That is what this is all about. 

So this is so important. I hope you will move immediately to approve Governor Schafer’s nomination. To his wife, Nancy, and Kari, 

I think it is important to say, thanks for being willing to serve your 

country. It is not just the nominee, but the family. I think it is important to say, as well, that public service honors the commitment 

we make to our country’s future. I think when people come to this 

table as a cabinet nominee and present themselves and say, ‘‘I am 

willing to serve,’’ I think it inspires this democracy of ours. 

So the Committee can advance that cause of inspiring democracy 

today by moving quickly to approve this nomination of Governor 

Schafer to the post of Secretary of Agriculture. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Senator Dorgan. 

We welcome to this side of the Capitol our colleague, Congressman Pomeroy, again a member of the Agriculture Committee in the 

House, but also a member of the very powerful Ways and Means 

Committee. 

STATEMENT OF HON. EARL POMEROY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 

CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA 

Mr. POMEROY. Mr. Chairman, it is a great pleasure to be at the 

Senate Agriculture Committee. I feel very at home here. I have got 

Senator Nelson, with whom I worked on State insurance regulation, and Senator Lincoln, Senator Roberts, Senator Chambliss, 

Senator Thune, and Senator Brown, all of whom we worked with 

in the House. I wondered what happened to you all. I see you are 

doing well. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. POMEROY. You seem to have found one another. I——

Senator ROBERTS. It is assisted living. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. POMEROY. Well, let me get to the point of the hearing. I 

think that it is a deep honor for North Dakota to have one of its 

own, Governor Schafer, nominated to be Secretary of Agriculture. 

You know, North Dakota is agriculture. Agriculture is North Dakota. It is the biggest part of our economy, always has been, and 

I think it always will be. 

So it is impossible to serve as Governor of North Dakota without 

being thoroughly familiar with agriculture, family farming, the core 

of production agriculture in our country, how these rural economies 

depend on the family farmer, how the family farmer stakes all at 

the beginning of a crop year to vagaries of weather or markets, and 

how the Federal Government has to play a role in helping these 

17

farmers navigate those unavoidable risks in order to keep family 

farming as the centerpiece of U.S. agriculture production. 

You know, as I think about the years where we served as a Congressional delegation with Governor Schafer, those were some wild 

times. You could call him the Disaster Governor, not because he 

was a disaster but because North Dakota seemed to have nothing 

but during those 8 years. We had drought. We had flood. We had 

fire. We had eight Statewide disasters. It is very appropriate that 

Mayors of Grand Forks and Fargo are with us in this hearing 

today because of the critical leadership the Governor provided, 

working with the delegation during those years on the deep problems faced by each of those major cities. Senator Thune was certainly an important part of our effort in the House and North Dakota will always be grateful to you, Senator, for the role you played 

in those critical days. 

Well, Governor Schafer also saw during the 1990’s not just natural disasters, but markets that were really something and the 

trouble we had when we had a farm bill that didn’t respond, a 

price support safety net during years of market collapse. 

So I think that the Governor is going to bring a wealth of real 

practical agricultural experience into this position, in addition, the 

management experience of having run a State, a $4.2 billion budget, 12,000 employees. I note that during his time, he had a pilot 

initiative to revitalize rural communities, led a trade missions to 

China. These are all wonderful points of prior experience to bring 

to the position of Secretary. I know that he will bring common 

sense real priorities into that job and I hope that he is given 

enough of an operating margin so he can bring his own leadership 

to bear. 

Like Senator Conrad said, at this hour when we need to find 

some common ground, I think that Governor Schafer, hopefully 

soon to be Secretary Schafer, can help us find it. I am going to be 

a conferee on the farm bill representing Ways and Means, so I look 

forward to working very directly with you as we get this farm bill 

done. 

I apologize for needing to leave early. The last plane to North 

Dakota leaves in a few minutes, and I need to be on it. But I appreciate very much you listening to me. It is great to see you all 

again. Thank you. 

Senator CONRAD. Mr. Chairman, might I just say that on that 

plane with Congressman Pomeroy, after agreement with Governor 

Schafer, will be roughly 80 percent of the farm program benefits. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator CONRAD. We look for some fair distribution, but——

[Laughter.] 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you all very much. Senator Dorgan, 

Senator Conrad, Congressman Pomeroy, I know you all have busy 

schedules. We thank you for being here. You are welcome to join 

us if you like, but you will be excused to continue your work at 

other places. 

Governor Schafer, required of all nominees, would you please 

stand and raise your right hand. 

18

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 

help you, God? 

Mr. SCHAFER. I do, so help me, God. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you. And one last question, mandatory. Do you agree, Governor, that if confirmed, you will appear before any duly constituted committee of Congress if asked to appear? 

Mr. SCHAFER. I do, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much. Governor, thank you 

very much again for listening to all this. You can see that there 

is obviously an intense interest in this position by this Committee 

and a willingness and a hope to work with you to get our farm bill 

through and signed by the President and to get it timely implemented. 

So with that, again, I welcome you to the Committee. We have 

your statement that will be made a part of the record in its entirety and you may please proceed as you so desire. 

STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD T. SCHAFER, NOMINEE TO BE 

SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to be 

here. It is an honor to appear before your committee today. I especially want to thank Senators Conrad and Dorgan and Representative Pomeroy for your very kind words. It is gratifying that while 

we have differed politically at times, we have been able to work together for the good of the great State of North Dakota. Over the 

years, to all of you, I have appreciated your advice and counsel and 

friendship, and it is indeed an honor to have Team North Dakota 

introducing me here to the Committee this afternoon. 

I am extremely thankful that my wonderful spouse, Nancy, is 

here with me today. I love you, dear. Among her many roles in my 

life, she remains an important connection to farm issues, having 

been raised on a small grain and livestock farm in North Central 

Montana. Her example of growing up with no running water, sleeping on the living room couch as her bed, and swimming in the stock 

tank, to becoming the First Lady of North Dakota is inspiring and 

it is a great example of the values and the character that are instilled by a rural lifestyle. 

Our youngest daughter is here with us, also. Thanks for being 

with us, Kari. We really appreciate her being here. Our other children, Tom and Ellie and Eric, couldn’t join us, but they are gathered around their televisions. Hi kids. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. SCHAFER. I would also like to take this opportunity to personally thank the 640,000 citizens of North Dakota, as they are my 

supporters, the shapers and encouragers in my life. Since this 

hearing room is a bit small to invite them all here today, I have 

to settle for thanking them from afar. 

Mr. Chairman and esteemed members of the Committee, you 

have all seen my resume, so I won’t use the Committee’s time to 

discuss at length my life’s professional experience, which I believe 

well qualifies me for this position. However, I would like to speak 

briefly about the question most of you asked me when we met faceto-face prior to this hearing. Why do you want to be Secretary of 

19

Agriculture? Answering this question is a good way to start this 

hearing. How I arrived here today and the path I took through life 

will, I believe, explain why I want to lead the United States Department of Agriculture. 

The first part of my answer comes from Senator Dave Durenberger and a saying that he was given at his swearing-in ceremony 

here in the Capitol. It reads, the sign of God is that we will be led 

where we do not expect to go. I believe God prepared me for this 

assignment and led me here, and for that, I am grateful. 

The second part of my answer starts with a shipbuilder. I bet 

you didn’t expect that in front of the Agriculture Committee hearing here, but my maternal grandfather arrived on our shores in 

1901 from Denmark with seven cents in his pocket, the clothes on 

his back, and this very ring that I wear today. He eventually arrived in Western North Dakota, not to build ships, but to homestead a quarter section of land. His shipbuilding skills did come in 

handy when he needed to put up a barn that looked an awful lot 

like an upside down boat. 

But he was committed to making a better life for himself and his 

family and he became a good farmer and with my grandmother, Johanna, raised seven children there. He had no idea of the influence 

he would have on generations to come, and unfortunately, he didn’t 

live to see me elected as the 30th Governor of the great State of 

North Dakota or nominated to be Secretary of Agriculture. He 

probably wouldn’t have believed it, either, but I do believe he 

would be proud. 

On the other hand, my paternal grandfather died when my father was 16 years old. Dad decided then to move off the farm and 

staked out a life in town. As a traveling salesman, he discovered 

a better way to clean and shine linoleum and started selling Gold 

Seal floor Wax door to door. Harold Schafer’s customers were people living in farmhouses that dotted the land. When business built 

up, the first store accounts were small rural hardware stores, 

lumberyards, and grocery stores. His business success was based 

on the economy generated by agriculture. 

From both sides of my family, I am a product steeped in agriculture tradition and economy. In my work as Governor, I developed a passion for the rural community because I saw the value 

that people living there bring to our republic. There is no doubt in 

my mind that the agrarian community produces people with the 

virtues of courage, hard work, justice, honor, truth, and hardiness, 

the cornerstones that hold up the United States of America. 

By the grace of God, I have grown up in this free country, the 

progeny of a homesteader and a businessman. I have had the privilege of carrying the opportunities of my education, experience, and 

heritage to a long and successful career in both the public and private sectors of our society. 

When President Abraham Lincoln founded the USDA in 1862, he 

called it ‘‘The People’s Department’’ because of its ability to improve the lives of so many Americans in so many different ways. 

I arrive here today with my heart in agriculture and my foundation in business, a combination that I hope you will agree is a perfect fit for the rigors of administrating and managing the USDA. 

20

I want to express my appreciation to President Bush for nominating me to lead this important agency, and if I am so honored 

to be confirmed by the U.S. Senate for this job, I pledge to work 

with each of you and this Committee during these exciting times 

for agriculture. 

If confirmed, I look forward to having the opportunity to stand 

beside what I know already to be the great employees of the USDA, 

to help enhance our country’s vibrant agriculture economy, advance 

renewable energy, and protect America’s safe and low-cost food 

supply. I will devote myself to improving the nutrition and health, 

enhancing rural infrastructure, promoting good stewardship of our 

National Forests, and conserving our natural resources. And finally, if confirmed, I pledge to work tirelessly to ensure that the 

USDA programs are administered efficiently and effectively, and 

most important, with fairness and equality. The American people 

deserve no less from the People’s Department. 

Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, to start this journey, I humbly ask you for your support for confirmation and I look 

forward to serving the people of the United States of America. If 

in some small way I can contribute to the preservation and protection of our foundational strength through agriculture, then in the 

end, I believe I will have done my job well. 

Mr. Chairman, I submit my comments for the record. Thank you 

again for the opportunity to appear before you today and I look forward to answering your and the Committee’s questions. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Edward T. Schafer can be found 

on page 51 in the appendix.] 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Governor. 

We will now start a round of 5–minute questions. I will, after my 

questioning and the Ranking Member’s, I will recognize Senators 

in order of appearance, and it would be as follows: Senator Conrad, 

Senator Roberts, Senator Lugar, Senator Salazar, Senator Thune, 

Senator Coleman, Senator Klobuchar, and Senator Lincoln, in 

order of appearance that came to the Committee. 

Governor Schafer, again, we are not expecting you to answer in 

great detail program and policy questions that you will have to 

delve into as Secretary. You will have to take more time to get up 

to speed on that. We understand all of that. But it does, I think, 

seem reasonable to ask you some of your views on the Federal Government’s proper role in our food and agriculture system and in 

rural communities. 

For example, just a broad opening question, what do you believe 

should be the role of the Federal Government in providing financial 

assistance to farmers and ranchers? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the question because it is really why I am here today and so pleased to 

have been nominated for the Secretarial position. I believe that the 

USDA is a strong advocate for agriculture. They have delivered the 

safety net programs responsibly and efficiently to the farmers, 

ranchers, and land owners of this country. 

You know, as always when I speak to farmers around, they say, 

well, I am not so sure I like government in my business and I 

would like to be able to operate more on my own, and also they 

talk about the importance that the agriculture programs bring to 

21

them. I think it is important to note that the government and 

through the taxpayers of the United States of America provide good 

support programs, not only for farmers and ranchers, but provide 

nutrition, nutrition assistance, inspections, providing a safe and 

clean and constant food supply. The government, through the 

USDA in this case, certainly operates well and efficiently in that 

arena. 

So I believe that the role of the USDA is to bridge that gap between the government programs that are put forward by the policymaking branch of government to the people who are actually working the land, who are depending on the safety net programs and 

support programs, and those people of the United States who are 

often forced to partake in the support programs out there for their 

everyday lives. If we can at the USDA bridge the gap between the 

government and the people who depend and rely on the programs, 

I think we will have done our job well. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you. Governor, in 1997, you wrote a 

letter as Governor of North Dakota to President Clinton urging 

him to sign a bill providing agriculture disaster relief to farmers 

from North Dakota and other States affected by long-term droughts 

and other weather problems. The cost of that bill was $8.4 billion. 

It was designated emergency spending. It did not require a budget 

offset. 

Over the last several years, President Bush has consistently demanded cuts in other farm programs in order to pay for agriculture 

disaster assistance. On two occasions, farm bill funding was taken 

away to pay for disaster assistance. As everyone heard me say any 

times, $3.9 billion was taken from the conservation program for 

disaster payments and was never replaced. 

Given this history, could you enlighten us as to what your current view is on the need for budget offsets for disaster assistance 

programs. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the question involving my writing a letter to the agency, because as Governor of North Dakota, I interacted with the programs often and 

I did write a letter to President Clinton not once but many times. 

As noted, we had several disasters in North Dakota during my tenure. I also wrote letters to the agency encouraging the delivery of 

programs in special ways in disaster conditions. 

As Governor of the State of North Dakota, you know, it was easy 

to be a champion for my State and to talk to the leaders of the 

farm and ranch groups, to talk to individual farmers and ranchers, 

and to understand the need for this disaster assistance, and I was 

glad so to write that letter. 

Now, if I am confirmed, I move into the national arena and no 

longer would champion any State-specific needs but look at the 

overall policy and the needs of this nation. Importantly, disaster 

safety net programs are a part of past farm bills and need to be 

a part of future farm bills. I understand that through the negotiations and conversations and debates that have taken place between 

the legislative branch and the executive branch that there are some 

differences of opinion about disaster, and as I stated, you know, 

there are the different views that I have been catching up on and 

briefed on and certainly seen in the news. 

22

But importantly, I believe that a good farm program needs to 

have a safety net for the risk of doing business as farmers. I will 

look forward, if I am confirmed, to working with you to help bridge 

the gap or narrow the differences between the executive and legislative branch, to come to a conclusion, to sign a farm bill that is 

appropriately paid for by the citizens and takes care of farmers and 

ranchers and land owners in this country in an appropriate manner that includes a safety net that allows them to operate and to 

do business well. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you. I see my 5 minutes is up. Senator 

Chambliss? 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Governor, the farm bill that we passed out of the Senate has a 

provision in there for disaster which is a very unique approach, a 

very different approach. It is funded by not raising taxes on the 

American people and I urge you to take a quick look at it as soon 

as you occupy the office so that as we go through the conference 

process that you will be very familiar with that and can render the 

good advice that I know you are prepared to give to the White 

House. 

Speaking of that, we originally dealt with Under Secretary 

Keenam as a part of writing of the Senate farm bill. Now that we 

are into conference, as expected, Acting Secretary Conner has been 

our main contact at the White House. Now you are going to be the 

third voice of reason injected into the process and we certainly look 

forward to that. 

As you might can imagine, cotton is a very important crop to my 

home State. Cotton production has changed over the years, as has 

the market and destination for cotton, but it still remains just a 

critical crop from the standpoint of growth as well as economic production in the United States. 

Ten years ago, Europe accounted for a significant share of world 

trade and now consumption to the region accounts for relatively little with respect to cotton. By contrast, Asia now accounts for more 

than half of the world’s cotton mill use. Because the market continues to evolve, Cotton Outlook, the leading commercial provider 

of international cotton market information and analysis, will discontinue the North European A Index values beginning August 1, 

2008. This will require a change in how the Department determines the adjusted world price for the Upland Cotton Marketing 

Loan Program. 

The Department has the authority to make appropriate adjustments for determining and calculating AWP and my question to 

you is will the Department and you as the head of the Department 

ensure that an accurate world price is discovered in the absence of 

a North European index and base the determination on publicly 

available price information? And can you give us the assurance 

that this transition will be made seamlessly, in a manner that will 

maintain the confidence of my producers as well as the entire cotton industry that they have in USDA’s administration of the cotton 

program? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate your confidence 

in me, and I would note that earlier today, I was admiring myself 

23

in the mirror and have the nice white cotton shirt on. That made 

the image pretty good. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. SCHAFER. But I appreciate the question and it is something 

that I am anxious for, because if I am confirmed, I really am looking forward to getting to the agency. There are many people over 

there who are steeped in agriculture policy and direction and I 

really look forward to getting fully briefed on the issues, especially 

with cotton. As you know, being from a Northern State, I don’t 

have as much background and experience in cotton and some other 

Southern crops, but I look forward to the opportunity of working 

with you and checking out those peanuts and getting up to speed 

on the issues. So I would look forward to getting to the agency, 

finding out the intricacies of the details and working with you to 

move forward. 

Importantly, I believe that the role of the USDA is to deliver the 

policies, programs, and directions from this body as best as possible. If I am confirmed, I will lead an agency that is responsive 

to you, that has built a partnership with this Committee so that 

we can look at those issues and difficulties. 

I would also note that when speaking with the President, he 

asked me to get involved in trade issues. As these trade issues 

come to the forefront, I look forward to working with the White 

House on international trade, how they affect crops and cropping 

patterns in the United States as well as internationally, and would 

seek your advice and counsel as we move forward. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. And when you get home tonight, check that 

label to make sure that is U.S. cotton that your shirt was made 

from. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Over the last several years, I have come to 

have a passion in something Republicans—you might be surprised—have a significant interest in. Part of it is due to my friend, 

Senator Lugar, but we have a great network of food banks in my 

State that serve such a critical function. As a part of the work that 

our food banks do all around the country, USDA, in particular this 

Committee, has been involved in the Emergency Food Assistance 

Program and providing excess agricultural products to those food 

banks. There have been some years when we haven’t been able to 

provide as much as we would want to. Now, as we are in the midst 

of a slow-down in the economy of this country, I think this is the 

kind of issue that strikes at the heart of what USDA should be involved in and what the Senate Agriculture Committee should be involved in, and as a result of the efforts of this Committee, we are 

with our farm bill. 

But I would just simply ask you to commit to working with the 

relevant agencies at USDA to continue to look at innovative ways 

to help provide excess agricultural products that are available to 

these food banks around the country. 

Thank you very much, and we look forward to moving your nomination. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Thank you. 

Chairman HARKIN. Senator Conrad? 

24

Senator CONRAD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One thing I would 

like my colleagues to know is a little bit more about the background of the Governor. We grew up together, just blocks apart. 

His father was the most successful businessman in our State as I 

was growing up. I had Mr. Bubble bubble bath and Snowy bleach. 

Those are names that I think most everybody recognizes. But more 

than that, his father——

Senator CHAMBLISS. Were they taking neighborhood bubble 

baths? Is that what——

[Laughter.] 

Senator CONRAD. These Georgia peanut guys—we are always 

having trouble with them. 

His father was also the most generous philanthropist in our 

State, and never for publicity’s sake. I can remember when I was 

of college age, Harold Schafer invited me to his office and asked me 

if I needed help going through college. It turned out in my case we 

did not, but I know that he did that for dozens of young people in 

my hometown, outside of our hometown, helped people go through 

school. When people had a problem in their families or tragedy, 

often the first person on the doorstep was Harold Schafer to help 

out quietly. It says something about the quality and the character 

of the family that he comes from, so I think people should know 

that. 

On a specific note, we are working right now as we move through 

the Conference Committee with the special challenge of the question of new revenue. Our bill is over the so-called baseline. The administration’s own bill is $8 billion over the baseline, not surprising, because we have written this farm bill with $17 billion less 

in the baseline than we wrote the last bill. So if we are going to 

have, for example, a strong energy provision, we are going to need 

revenue to do that. If we are going to deal with the other demands 

in terms of nutrition and safety net, there is going to have to be 

some new revenue. 

I just say, the bill and the revenue provisions that are in the 

Senate version passed the Senate Finance Committee 17 to four, 

totally bipartisan, totally noncontroversial, but we have heard 

White House objection. We are working in the Finance Committee 

now on a new package that the Finance Committee has identified 

as provisions that have passed previously, not gone through the 

whole process, but passed one body or the other with White House 

support, with support from the House of Representatives, but have 

never been implemented, so that we can come forward with a new 

package of revenue that should be totally noncontroversial. 

I am not going to ask you, and I don’t think it is appropriate at 

this point for you to have this put to you, because this is going to 

have to deal with the White House, but I think it is very important 

that you know there is a very serious effort underway at the direction of the Chairman of the Committee, working with the Chairman of the Finance Committee and working with the Ranking 

Member, to identify new revenue sources for this bill that would 

be totally noncontroversial. But I just want you to know, I think 

in the judgment of this Committee, there is no way to write this 

bill and pay for it without some revenue source given the circumstances we confront. 

25

Again, I want to congratulate you on your nomination. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much. Senator Lugar, I 

guess—I am sorry, Senator Roberts. I apologize. Senator Roberts? 

Senator ROBERTS. No need to apologize, Mr. Chairman. I always 

knew that Kent Conrad was squeaky clean, but I didn’t know it 

was because of the bubble baths of Ed’s dad. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator ROBERTS. Did you do that every Saturday night, or——

Senator CONRAD. Pretty much. 

Senator ROBERTS. Pretty much, whether you needed it or not. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator ROBERTS. Governor Schafer, you have my vote and best 

wishes. Return with me now to the not-so-thrilling days of yesteryear, when just last year we faced the budget challenge that Senator Conrad has talked about. Much of that challenge, as he has 

indicated, was over funding and finding offsets, which is the new 

game in town, for new programs or to increase any program. It was 

embarrassing. As a matter of fact, it was a little ugly to see Kent 

and myself crawling around on our hands and knees, looking under 

every chair, every cushion for any change that we could find. But 

that is what we had to do and we did come up with a bipartisan 

approach in the Finance Committee and I hope we can do that 

again. 

But after all that was decided, despite this challenge, there was 

an effort to keep the direct payment rates at their current levels. 

I truly appreciated your list of priorities. I would only add one in 

and that is to preserve farm income, which I think is the biggest 

rural development program of all. 

In their own proposal released almost a year ago, the Department actually offered a slight increase in the direct payment, 

roughly $5.5 billion worth, if I recall, and this is the most tradefriendly program in the commodity title. As Frank Sinatra and 

Kermit the Frog can tell you, it isn’t easy being green. If you use 

the Direct Payment Program and you believe in Doha and the 

trade rounds, it is the greenest program. 

It is also the only program, along with crop insurance, that actually assists farmers and their lenders during times of loss. When 

prices are high, the countercyclical program does not help producers when they have lost the crop. And you have just gone 

through, or as Kent has pointed out, eight times you went through 

that when you were Governor—eight times. We have gone through 

it four of the last five years in Kansas, four. You had eight charts. 

I only had four. But we just went through a terrible time in Kansas. We had a blizzard and we had tornadoes sweeping entire 

towns away, and then we had all of Southeast Kansas underwater. 

Then we got into an ice storm. I don’t know what is next, maybe 

a plague of locusts. I certainly hope not. 

But at any rate, we figured it up, and under the countercyclical 

program, despite the best efforts of this Committee and others and 

the administration and everybody concerned and the farm organizations, all the commodity groups, if you lose a crop, you are really 

in trouble because all you have is that direct payment and crop insurance, which, by the way, Bob Kerrey and I worked on for an awVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:05 Apr 09, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00029 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\41429.TXT SAG2 PsN: SAG2
26

fully long time and that is what we have to rely on. And if you 

have a good crop insurance program, it makes the disaster payment less—you have to rely less on a disaster payment. 

I have a little bit different view. I think if you set up the fund, 

you spend it, as opposed to disaster by disaster. There are two 

views to that. We only seem to have the disaster especially during 

an even-numbered year. 

At any rate, we now have the administration, both the House 

and the Senate, on record supporting the Direct Payments Program 

at the current level. There are some that may want to reopen that 

debate, use the Direct Payment Program to offset increases. How 

do you view the Direct Payment Program? Will the administration 

continue to vigorously support the program as they did in their 

farm bill proposal? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. I can tell you, as Governor of 

an agriculture State, in visiting with the farmers and ranchers 

across our State, I know that direct payments are an important 

part of the program. I understand that there are some issues here, 

and today in the exciting times of agriculture, when prices are as 

high as anybody can remember——

Senator ROBERTS. I am going to interrupt you for just a minute, 

and I apologize for this—we do this all the time, so don’t worry 

about it——

[Laughter.] 

Senator ROBERTS [continuing]. These prices, just ask at any 

North Dakota coffee shop or any Kansas coffee shop, do you think 

these prices will continue? This situation is similar to the Russian 

grain sale. We can all go back to the times when the prices have 

been up and down. These are astounding prices, due in part to renewable fuels and demand in regards to worldwide crops, India, 

China, so on and so forth. I know that. But I also know that it can 

go down the other way. And again, it is for the farmer who doesn’t 

have a crop. The farm program should be aimed at the farmer 

when he needs it the most, and these are the two things that you 

can do. One is crop insurance. One is direct payments. I apologize 

for interrupting you. 

Mr. SCHAFER. I am glad you did, Senator. I appreciate the clarification and I agree with you. These are important safety net 

issues. As I mentioned earlier, I believe that a farm bill has to include those issues. I hear from farmers and ranchers all across 

North Dakota that rely on those direct payments and crop insurance payouts in time of disaster. As Governor, I have been through 

over and over and over again, as you mentioned, disaster situations, whether it was floods or that dealt with prevented and even 

late planting. Things are difficult out there if you don’t get a crop, 

as you mentioned. 

So I understand the good parts of the farm bill. I have listened 

to farmers complain about the bad parts of the farm bill. I just look 

forward to, if I am confirmed, to working with you to understand 

those issues strongly and be an advocate for them. 

I grew up with farmers as neighbors and I want to make sure 

that those farmers and ranchers understand that the Federal Government, the taxpayers, and this Committee and the Senate is behind them. I believe that we all want to deliver programs that help 

27

our country’s farmers manage the farm economy during times of 

problems and distress. I believe that the USDA has delivered programs well in the past, and if I am confirmed, I look forward to 

the opportunity of helping deliver those programs as best as possible. 

Senator ROBERTS. Thank you for your response and thank you, 

Mr. Chairman. I apologize for going over my time. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much. And now, Senator 

Lugar. 

Senator LUGAR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Governor, we have been reading, at least those of us who are interested in agriculture newsletters, words from Collin Peterson, the 

Chairman on the House side, with regard to the farm bill and these 

suggest that the administration has two large objections. There 

may be smaller ones. One, Senator Conrad has touched upon, and 

that is the means of financing the farm bill as found in the House 

and the Senate, and the other, the lack of limits on payments to 

farmers who receive very large amounts from the farm bill. There 

were amendments offered on the floor. The Senator from Minnesota 

offered one, as I recall. Others offered some capping at $1 million, 

$750,000, what have you. 

One of the intriguing facts of the hearing we had with Secretary 

Johanns was the number of committee members who seemed preoccupied with the thought that Secretary Johanns was in favor of 

limiting the payments to $200,000 or some such amount, which 

would lead one to believe that a good number of our colleagues are 

tremendously interested in having higher payments, and very 

clearly the amendments to limit any of these failed. So this is one 

objection the administration, as I see it, has to the farm bill. 

The financing parts, and I am intrigued by what our colleague, 

Senator Conrad, has said, that he has worked on trying to think 

of some other way to pay for this, and maybe that will turn out 

to be more successful. But for the moment, Collin Peterson says to 

some agriculture newsletters, we are going to finish the conference 

on this bill, it will be vetoed, then we will try again and somehow 

get to conclusion before the March recess with a bill that the President can sign. 

Now, you come into the picture in the middle of all of this, and 

obviously you can certainly reserve judgment as to what the administration is saying to anybody, but what sort of road map do 

you foresee for the conclusion of a farm bill, or do you foresee extension of the current bill for a period of time? Some of the programs at some point come to an end. At least some farmers are 

concerned about jeopardy of some programs if the Senate and the 

House are not able to act and the President sign it, so that we will 

be coming back to look at emergencies of that sort fairly early in 

your tenure. Do you have any comment about all of this? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. I share the same enthusiasm 

and excitement in the agriculture community today, and I want to 

congratulate this Committee and the work that was done to put the 

farm bill together. I applaud the tremendous support from both 

sides of the aisle to put forth a good new farm policy and farm bill. 

As was mentioned, I am the new kid on the block and I am looking forward to getting to the agency and getting fully briefed. I 

28

have read the elements of the farm bill; however I must admit that 

I haven’t read word-for-word the full 1,000 pages, but I do look forward to getting over to the agency. I want to commend Acting Secretary Chuck Conner, who has been the lead point person in driving the Administration’s policy and interacting with the Senate and 

the Senate Agriculture Committee regarding the issues. 

I really look forward to, if I am confirmed, getting over there, 

standing side-by-side with Chuck Conner and the other great members of the employee base at USDA and working with you to help 

craft that difference. You know, there is a gap between the legislative and executive branches here and I hope that as the new kid 

on the block, I can come in with a fresh perspective, a different outlook, and be able to narrow that gap, because I know that the 

President wants to sign a new farm bill this year, and I think all 

of us working together hopefully can accomplish that. 

Senator LUGAR. Thank you very much, and good luck. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you. 

Senator LUGAR. Good luck. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman HARKIN. This would be Senator Thune. 

Senator THUNE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Governor, I have got a concern over the amount of time that 

USDA has taken to implement two recent programs. One is the Ad 

Hoc Disaster Program that we passed, the Congress passed last 

May. It took USDA 5 months before beginning sign-up and 7 

months before payments were made. The State Areas for Wildlife 

Enhancement, or the SAFE program, was announced in March of 

2007 and still no sign-up date has been announced nearly 10 

months later. 

Of course, the farm bill will be much more complex under the 

programs under the farm bill, and I guess my question is what 

steps will you take as the Secretary of Agriculture to ensure the 

timely delivery of farm bill programs based upon the sort of just 

lack of any sort of timely progress in terms of implementing these 

other programs that I just mentioned. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. Certainly, as Governor, I had 

the chance to interact with farm programs and the delivery of farm 

programs and heard from farmers, ranchers and land owners 

across my State when there were problems, slowdowns, or when 

things didn’t get delivered. 

One of the things that I believe I was successful with as Governor was the delivery of programs that were put forth by the legislative branch. Often, I found myself finding out where the barriers 

are, getting rid of them so that the good employees can get their 

jobs done as best as they can. 

There are a wide variety of reasons why these barriers or delays 

occur. I am not aware of the current situation, but if confirmed, I 

look forward to getting to the agency and getting briefed on this 

issue. I bring a management style that is open, transparent, and 

willing to address problems. If there is a slowdown, a barrier, or 

something in the way of delivering a program, I believe it is my 

strongest mission to deliver programs as fast, as best, and as efficiently as possible. So I will hear the complaints, I will find out 

29

where the slowness is, and I will try to break down those barriers 

and move them faster. 

Senator THUNE. And I would just say that the State Areas for 

Wildlife Enhancement Program, the SAFE program, is something 

that my State of South Dakota is uniquely positioned and qualified 

for. We have probably the best pheasant numbers of any State in 

the country and had some extraordinary success the last couple of 

years. USDA announced just recently which States were going to 

be eligible for that program and South Dakota wasn’t one of them, 

and it seemed to me at least that would have been one of the first 

States that they would move to implement the program. Again, 

they have now started to make some announcement about it, but 

they still haven’t had any sign-up, and that is going to be—like I 

said, that is an announcement that came out 10 months ago. 

And the disaster payments, the bill that was passed in May of 

last year by the Congress, took 7 months for payments to go out. 

And so I just would urge you, as you get over there, to really home 

in on this and bear down on the agency’s ability to respond in 

terms of getting some of these important programs implemented. 

Another question I would like to ask has to do with conservation, 

but I guess, would you favor language in the farm bill that would 

grant you the authority to allow CRP contracts to be terminated 

early without penalty. Think about that question, and if so, under 

what circumstances would you exercise the authority to allow early 

termination of CRP contracts? There is a real concern out there 

that a lot of ground is going to be coming out of CRP and being 

put into production and there is already a lot—the contracts that 

are expiring that aren’t being renewed and so we have got, at least 

in my State, about a half-a-million acres coming out of CRP in the 

next 3 years. 

So the question has to do with whether or not you would have 

the authority or would like to have the authority to allow those 

contracts to be terminated earlier. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Well, thank you. I have to say I am looking forward to, if confirmed, getting to the agency and learning more 

about this. You ask what on the outside, seems to be a relatively 

easy question. On the other hand, I also know from working with 

people that are enrolled in CRP, that this is a very complex issue. 

I know there are many people at the agency that are tuned up on 

this issue and I look forward to get in there myself. 

But there are complex issues as far as farmers signing the contract, agreeing to a time period, agreeing to a penalty if they remove that time period fast, or faster than the full length of the contract. Those things are at issue. The initial CRP program was for 

land that wasn’t the best farming property in the history of the 

world. I mean, it was meant to provide that acreage that isn’t tillable or isn’t great productive land into the program to provide not 

only the idling of the land, but also great wildlife habitat, as we 

have found out through the life of the program. 

So the way I would answer the question is I believe that it is a 

complex issue. There are legal aspects involved. There are not only 

cropping patterns, but wildlife preservation and conservation 

issues, and I think there are lots of opportunities to make sure that 

the needs of the farmers are met, the needs of the wildlife commuVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:05 Apr 09, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\41429.TXT SAG2 PsN: SAG2
30

nity are met, but also to deliver the programs that were meant and 

put forth by this Committee hopefully in the new farm bill. 

Senator THUNE. I appreciate your answer to that. I guess I just 

think it is really important that as we look at this, that we do 

strike the right balance between these competing priorities. There 

is a real demand for more production and for cropping a lot of these 

lands that have been in CRP, and certainly economic incentive to 

get out for a lot of farmers based on current market prices. But I 

think it is really important that we have a good, strong, robust 

CRP program and that there are rules that were put in place for 

people who enter into those contracts and I hope that as you get 

over there to the agency, that you will try to strike and achieve 

that balance, strike that balance and hopefully make sure that 

those contracts and programs are continued in a way that promotes 

good environmental stewardship coupled with the need for production, as well. So thank you. 

I can see my time is out, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you. Senator Coleman? 

Senator COLEMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Governor, I was traveling last week in Mankato and Windom 

and farmers there are trying to figure out what sort of safety net 

they can have in 2008. I think the bankers want to know that, too. 

There has been a lot of discussion, and in my opening statement 

I talked about my belief that you would be a good negotiator. You 

bring the right qualities to the table. There has been a lot of talk 

about prospects of the President vetoing a bill. I know Senator 

Conrad has been working on some alternative offsets. 

We have all tried to be very, very constructive internally 

amongst ourselves. There are many points at which this bill could 

have pulled apart, and even with there being some disagreements, 

regionally, whatever, and my concern is that as we work with the 

administration, that the attitude is—and I understand negotiation, 

which is we are going to be tough here and you are going to be 

tough here, but this is a process that I think demands a positive 

approach. I think you have got to send a message to the people in 

Windom and Mankato and other places in Minnesota and throughout this country that we want a farm bill and that we are going 

to try to figure a way, where there are concerns about offsets. So 

we are working on it. But I would just hope that I would get a little 

more constructive message as you move into this position, which I 

hope we do very, very quickly. 

Let me just raise one other issue, one that I know you know well. 

We often say that Washington is a town of a thousand issues and 

a few priorities. In the Red River Valley, sugar is a priority. It is 

a major concern. It is part of the economic bedrock, the foundation 

of the communities there. I know that the U.S. and Mexico recently 

agreed to trade terms on tomatoes, and then I believe some time 

ago there was a similar arrangement with regard to chicken in particular. 

U.S. and Mexican industries—sugar—have come together and offered some recommendations about how we can implement NAFTA 

without affecting any other single industry, again, similar to, I believe, what was done with tomatoes and chicken. It is not reopening NAFTA, and as I have noted in regard to other commodities, 

31

I certainly don’t think it is a precedent. USDA and USTR are already engaged with my office. I have had some discussion, looking 

to get people together. My hope was that the approach to this 

would be one of folks listening, sitting down with the industries. 

There are going to be some changes with the NAFTA, again, a constructive approach. 

My question is, I want a sense from you about your commitment 

to continue the discussion to at least approach this with an open 

mind until you hear, until the administration sits down and hears 

from the industry to see if, in fact, we can do what I believe we—

in the other areas, we had a problem and then we addressed it. 

Here you have folks saying, before you have a problem, is it possible to address it? So I am looking for a commitment to being a 

good listener before the Department articulates a position. 

Mr. SCHAFER. You have that, Senator. I will be a good listener. 

As you mentioned, our neighboring States deal with sugar issues 

all the time. I understand the long-term aspects. Years ago, we 

were fighting about trying to export our high-fructose corn syrup 

into Mexico. Now that is displacing sugar down there and they 

want the sugar to come up this way. Those are trade nuances and 

balances that go back and forth and we are seeing the long-term 

effects of what our trade policy and directions do. So I really look 

forward to working with you and listening to you with the intention of figuring out what is the best public policy direction for these 

issues. 

I would note, I was very pleased to have already received several 

letters from the Mexican Consulate congratulating me for coming, 

but also looking forward to opening the door to working on these 

issues together. If I am confirmed, I will have the ability to get the 

sides together and understand the differences and make some 

progress. 

Senator COLEMAN. I think that would be very helpful. I for 4 

years was the Chairman of the Western Hemisphere Subcommittee 

on Foreign Relations. I am on the Foreign Relations Committee. I 

recently met with the Mexican ambassador and raised this issue. 

All too often on trade, we look at, well, if we open this up, it is 

going to open another door here and there is going to be a problem. 

This is one where, because this would be good for American sugar 

but bad for Mexican, so the Mexicans are going to want something 

else when it comes to pork, this is a little unique here in that you 

have folks on both sides saying, we want to work out something not 

impacting other industries, not calling for tradeoffs, and perhaps 

avoiding a problem before it begins. 

So I am pleased with, one, what I know to be your style is to be 

a listener and to be fair, and bringing the clear understanding and 

sensitivity you have to the importance of the industry as it impacts 

both my neighborhood and your neighborhood, in essence, and all 

of us. So I appreciate your response, Governor. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you. 

Senator COLEMAN. Thank you. 

Senator CONRAD. Mr. Chairman, might I ask our colleagues for 

a moment of indulgence to just introduce two mayors who are here 

with us? 

Chairman HARKIN. Absolutely. 

32

Senator CONRAD. From two of the major cities in North Dakota, 

Mayor Walaker of Fargo, if you would stand, and Mayor Brown of 

Grand Forks. And also here, Phil Harmeson representing the University of North Dakota, which is the Governor’s alma mater. So 

we have got not only the North Dakota Congressional delegation, 

but other important figures in North Dakota who are here supporting the Governor’s nomination. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Senator Conrad, and 

we certainly welcome you to the Agriculture Committee here today. 

You will all notice there is one thing different about this room than 

all other committee rooms in the entire U.S. Senate. We don’t sit 

on a dais and look down on people. We all sit around a table. It 

is very collegial, sort of in keeping with the collegiality of this Committee going back for years. I have to say that this is—I always 

feel, this is my seventh farm bill, I think, something like that—

farm bills are by their nature never partisan. Regional, yes. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman HARKIN. Oh, we can get into regional disputes and 

stuff, but never partisan. I think the way we sit around this table, 

I think is very indicative of that. There have been suggestions in 

the past about changing this, but I am sitting here with, let me 

see, one, two, three, at least three or four former Chairmen of the 

Committee and every one of them have all deigned to keep this the 

same and I think it makes for a good atmosphere here. So I just 

wanted you all to know that you won’t see this in any other hearing room anywhere in the Senate. I think we kind of like it that 

way. 

Thank you very much, Senator Conrad. 

Senator Klobuchar? 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I welcome our 

visitors from North Dakota. I note that in Chairman Harkin’s spirit 

of friendliness, I appreciate that you not bring up the embarrassing 

loss of my State to the North Dakota football team. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. But I did want to talk a little bit about sort 

of following up on what Senator Conrad was talking about, which 

is the need to get this farm bill through and find this revenue, the 

fact that the last farm bill came in $17 billion under budget, and 

really the revitalizing effect it had on so many of our rural communities. 

I was thinking about this as I thought about the stimulus package that we are talking about. While you were testifying, I was 

looking at some papers about that and I think that is important, 

but we really also have to look to the long-term, and what I saw 

in my State in this past month was just this enormous potential, 

of course, with wind and solar and all of these things, and make 

sure that we have policies in place also to keep promoting really 

the next generation of ethanol, the cellulosic ethanol, which is what 

I wanted to focus on here. 

The corn-based ethanol, the biodiesel, soybean-based biodiesel, 

very important to our State. I think it is going to get more and 

more efficient as we go forward. I have talked to President Bush 

about this. I know he supports it. But I also want you to note to 

him and to the administration the important energy policies in this 

33

farm bill with the incentives for cellulosic ethanol and the Biomass 

Crop Transition Assistance Program. There is a similar one on the 

House side. 

I just see this, if we are going to truly break the shackles and 

the dependence on foreign oil, that we are going to have to look to 

other forms of biomass, as well, and I wondered if you would comment about this and about looking at this farm bill also as jobs and 

stimulus for our rural economy. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. I really appreciate the question because this is an issue that I have been heavily involved in 

both as a Governor and as an individual for many, many years. I 

especially liked your comment about the ability to move the energy 

arena into a more self-sufficient—I am paraphrasing, but a more 

self-sufficient arena, because in 1996, I was Chairman of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, which are all of the oil 

and gas producing States in the country. 

As Chairman, I helped author a pamphlet that was titled, 

‘‘America: A Dependent Nation.’’ At that time, we predicted when 

oil imports were a little over 50 percent that there will come a time 

about now that oil imports will be over 65 percent. As we put together that forecast, we put together ways that we can lessen our 

dependence on foreign energy sources. 

I firmly believe that merging the energy and agriculture arenas 

is a way to do that. We have seen the ethanol, and I have supported value-added agriculture in our State, both in fuels and other 

energy sources. But importantly, as we have seen the bioenergy increases, we have seen pressures on other areas—food prices, feed 

prices as people have moved their cropping patterns from wheat to 

corn and those prices have gone up. Wheat prices have gone up. We 

are seeing the effects. 

I believe one of the most important things that we can do to 

move forward is to continue the effort, the research, the resources 

to make sure that we move energy efficiency into the next level or 

the next area by finding feedstocks that don’t affect prices, that 

don’t affect food price, et cetera. So switchgrass and the other feedstocks that go into bioenergy, I think are one of the most important 

issues that we can do as we move from—keeping the focus on renewable energy, but moving from feedstocks that affect food prices 

and other feed prices and things into crops that don’t do that, and 

certainly the cellulosic ethanol research and effort that is in place 

is going to move us in a big direction to do that. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you, and I note I was listening to 

Senator Roberts talk about the green part of the bill, that this is 

also a green part of the bill as we look at putting carbon back into 

the soil and expanding on the successful ethanol biodiesel we have. 

Just the last thing I wanted to mention was in the USDA’s farm 

bill proposals, is on our reform issue, and I spoke earlier about the 

need to keep considering some of the adjusted gross income issues. 

But in the proposal, the USDA talked about new rules that 

strengthen the now difficult-to-measure requirements for the active 

management contribution to the operation that enables individuals 

or entities to qualify for commodity program payments without contributing labor to the operation. I believe that the vast—the commodity payments are only 15 percent of the farm bill. The vast 

34

amount of them go to the people who deserve them. But, of course, 

we have these Beverly Hills 90210, almost 100 people getting farm 

payments. 

I am just wondering, in addition to some of the work we have 

done here with the three-entity rule and the potential work we can 

do with the income limits, if there is movement afoot in the USDA 

to do some rulemaking or move with that or if you would be interested in doing that to make sure that the money is going to the 

farmers that deserve it. 

Mr. SCHAFER. I appreciate you bringing that up, Senator, because I think the response is what the people are asking for. The 

people want to make sure that their tax dollars are spent wisely, 

efficiently, and that they go to the people that need them. And as 

you have worked with the Committee and on the floor championing 

some of those issues, others have, as well, and there has been, I 

think, good listening to the people across this country to say, we 

need to channel these dollars in where they need to go. We need 

to get them to the people that need the help and we maybe don’t 

have to give them to the people that don’t need the help. 

Importantly, I believe that as we—I can’t tell you right now 

where I think the actual line is or what that cutoff level should be. 

I note that both the House and the Senate have made progress toward moving that area. They have made some reforms in the 

three-entity rule, as you mentioned, but also in lowering the subsidy caps, maybe not as far as some wanted to go, maybe farther 

than others wanted to go, but I look forward to, if I am confirmed, 

to getting involved in that debate because I think what it really is, 

is shepherding the people’s money properly and performing to what 

they want to do. I know you have some strong issues on that and 

I would look forward to working with you to try to do so. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Lincoln? 

Senator LINCOLN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Well, Governor, when you are the last on the list, almost everything has been said or asked. You just have to kind of reiterate it 

again, so I will try to piggyback on some of what my colleagues 

have said. I would like to echo what Senator Coleman mentioned. 

I have been home in Arkansas an awful lot and I have been meeting with a lot of farmers who have been also meeting with their 

bankers and I think there needs to be a clear voice in terms of 

what they can expect for the 2008 crop year, and so I hope that 

as we move forward working on the farm bill, that at some point, 

there is a clear message of what they can expect and what they are 

going to be expected to adhere to in that 2008 crop year, because 

they are going to have to file their plans with you by April 1, I believe, and being able to go to their bankers and make those plans 

is critical. 

I also hope that you will take a look at all that we have done 

already. I know Senator Klobuchar mentions the need for reform, 

and we have done a good deal in this bill. We have got more reform 

in the bills that we have passed up here than really in the history 

of the farm bill, a 70 percent cut in some of those caps, or certainly 

the means testing that is being asked. It is important, because 

35

quite frankly, from the GAO studies that we have had, it indicates 

to us that before, at least I would hope before we would take further steps than that 70 percent cut, not knowing what the consequences are, that we would have a better idea, and their studies 

indicate to us that USDA has not been implementing a lot of the 

underlying law. So it would be hard to figure where we are really 

going and what those consequences would be. 

So I hope under your leadership you can take a look at that, as 

well, in terms of what is being implemented and what is not so 

that we don’t take unintended consequences from making much 

deeper cuts than the 70 percent we have already gone. So I think 

that is going to be critical to look at. 

I think it is also important to remember what the farm bill does. 

Senator Klobuchar mentioned the commodity programs and the 

commodity title are less than 15 percent of the whole bill. There 

are so many other things that provide us unbelievable stimulus in 

our rural communities, rural development, nutrition programs, nutrition assistance, conservation, all of those are critical and we look 

forward to making sure that they are something that is 

implementable. 

I know you have mentioned that you are looking forward to getting over there when we visited, taking charge with the implementation of new authorities that might be included in this legislation 

and some that already exist. I would also like to encourage you—

in the 2002 farm bill, we brought about a new office at USDA, 

which was the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights. We have asked 

time and time again to see action out of that office and I hope to 

encourage you to seize that opportunity. There is much more that 

could be done there at a much more rapid pace that I think would 

bring about a great deal of justice to some farmers across our country. 

I also hope that you will take into consideration—I don’t know 

what your opinions are, but when payments follow production, it is 

much like I imagine what your father faced as he grew his business, that oftentimes when you are faced with growing crops that 

you are suited to grow that have much stricter trade parameters 

and trade restrictions than perhaps sugar or other things might 

have, that you have to farm an economy of scale. If your father 

hadn’t branched out and started building an economy of scale in 

that business, it might have been more difficult to be successful or 

to even grow his business. 

So I think those are certainly important things that I hope that 

you will pay attention to. The role that you have to play, I hope 

you are excited about embracing that, particularly at this delicate 

time that we find ourselves in crafting a farm bill. I know that the 

Under Secretary has been very diligent. He has to be. He is a 

former staffer from Senator Lugar’s staff. And he does a great job 

in working and being in contact with us. But we hope that you will 

embrace that opportunity to take a role of leadership in there. 

The last thing, when you talk about implementing, one of the 

other things we hear a tremendous amount about in our farm 

States from our growers and from our farm families is the deadlines, the regulations, all of which they have to meet. They are not 

capable of doing it online just yet. I know that all of us want to 

36

move into the technological age. They do require a lot of assistance 

from FSA and we hope that you will work to strengthen both your 

field offices with the Farm Services, but also USDA. 

I know we have great USDA workers in our great State of Arkansas and we encourage that from the top down, you will encourage that engagement and support to those workers because they, 

in turn, are the ones—they can’t file their plans—our farmers can’t 

file their plans if they don’t have the information that comes from 

your agency. And so that connection and that working relationship 

is absolutely critical and I hope that you will engage in a one-onone opportunity to really work with the staff that you have in all 

of these States to really be the useful and helpful agency that 

USDA can and should be and is oftentimes when they have the resources and when they have the equipment. 

We look forward to working with you, as I said. I think many of 

us take a great sense of pride that we have sat around the table 

as we do here to come up with a very good, balanced, bipartisan 

bill focused on reform, but also putting added resources into things 

that are very important, whether it is the hunger issue we deal 

with and the nutrition assistance that is there, the conservation 

programs and others, they are all very important to us. 

So I hope that we can continue that work together. I know you 

are going to get to the agency and get into all kinds of things, so 

I just thought I would point out to you the things that I look to 

you for in terms of your leadership roles and the things that I hope 

you will embrace and engage in quickly. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator LINCOLN. Thank you. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you, Senator. 

Governor, we are more than willing to expedite this process, and 

we will to the extent possible that we can, but now I am going to 

ask you to expedite something. In 2006, Congress reauthorized and 

the President signed into law the Livestock Mandatory Reporting 

Act. The program is critical to providing much-needed transparency 

in livestock markets. Senator Grassley was one of the big proponents of this. The reported prices and other information by 

USDA has become an important part of fair prices paid for livestock in the United States. 

Two years later, unfortunately, the USDA has still not published 

a final rule for this important program. As a result, it is still functioning as a voluntary program, leaving the door open for less than 

completely accurate reporting. And I have got to tell you, this is 

during a time when I know all the prices, wheat prices are good, 

bean prices are good, corn are all great prices out there, but all of 

the prices are in the tank and our pork producers need this vital 

information. 

So as Secretary, will you make implementation of the final rule 

for this program a priority and publish the final rule without further delay? 

Mr. SCHAFER. I will do my best, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman HARKIN. Well, I hope you will do your best. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman HARKIN. Two other questions. During his confirmation 

3 years ago, Secretary Mike Johanns was asked more than once 

37

about what he would do with regard to reopening U.S. beef trade 

with Japan. He stated that reopening Japan was his priority No. 

1 and that he would be taking a personal leadership role on that 

issue. Well, although we have resumed the beef trade somewhat, 

it is still on a limited basis. Problems continue in fully reopening 

trade for U.S. beef and our producers are frustrated. 

As Secretary, what will you do differently at the Department to 

reopen our Asian markets for U.S. beef? What do you think is the 

problem? And how soon can you address this? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am looking forward 

to that effort and start addressing it upon confirmation. I understand the issues of trade. As was mentioned earlier, I have led a 

trade delegation to China from North Dakota. I also represented 

President Clinton in China on an effort when this body was working on the Most Favored Nation status and moving China into the 

WTO. I am anxious to get involved in these negotiations and the 

President has asked me directly to be involved in working with the 

trade negotiators and the other agencies to deal with this issue. 

I know—you asked, Mr. Chairman, what is the basis of it, what 

are the problems out there, and I think importantly to note that 

there are science-based standards for our agriculture exports and 

imports that are accepted by the International Export Society or 

international governments. The OIE standards are agreed to be 

met, and Japan does it and South Korea does it and the United 

States does it and others agree to those standards. Sometimes 

things get a little off whack and they move away from those standards, but I know for a fact that those OIS standards have declared 

the United States—the ability for our beef meets the standards, 

they meet the OIS direction. Other countries have agreed to follow 

those, and if I am confirmed, I am looking forward to getting over 

there and pushing as hard as I can to make sure that these countries that have agreed to the science-based standards will actually 

do so. 

Chairman HARKIN. Well, I hope so, and we have got to make it 

very clear. I mean, I have talked to our Korean friends, and they 

are our friends. They are good allies, a great nation. We want—I 

know the President wants a Free Trade Agreement with Korea. I 

am not opposed to that, but not as long as they keep up their actions on beef. Every time they do something like that, the further 

away that Free Trade Agreement goes, and I hope you take that 

message loud and clear to the President. 

I have told my Korean friends that, that unless and until they 

get serious and do the right thing on our beef trade with them, 

they can forget about the Free Trade Agreement. But we have got 

a real problem with the Koreans on it, and Japan, too, I might add. 

Mr. SCHAFER. Yes. 

Chairman HARKIN. One last question. Governor Schafer, the biographical information you submitted to the Committee said that 

you served as President of a company called Fish ’N Dakota from 

1991 to 1997, most of the time that you were also serving as Governor of North Dakota. Now, I looked at some of this stuff, I don’t 

know that much about it and things like that, but there were some 

problems about taxes and some things like that. Like I said, I don’t 

mean to get into all of that, but there were a lot of press reports 

38

about loans and obligations incurred during your tenure that 

maybe were not paid in a timely manner. I don’t know. There were 

some lawsuits and delinquencies. 

My only question is this, for the record. Can you assure this 

Committee that all obligations for this business venture have been 

paid in full, and second, that any obligations were not paid through 

government guarantees or write-offs drawing upon government 

funds? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify that. That 

issue, Mr. Chairman, is one that I have talked about before, and 

as you mentioned, has been in the news and reports of those 

things. I appreciated receiving a letter from the Committee on that 

issue last Friday. I have responded in writing——

Chairman HARKIN. We have that. 

Mr. SCHAFER. And noting that, I don’t know how many million 

forms I filled out during this process, but a lot of them were to do 

with financial disclosure and whether I owed any money or if there 

were any loans and outstanding balances, et cetera. I have filled 

all those forms out honestly and correctly, and as I did in writing, 

I want to assure you that any obligation for Fish ’N Dakota as a 

company while I owned that company has been satisfied, and any 

personal obligation that I have in place for any loans, taxes, 

amounts due for Fish ’N Dakota, I have paid in full. 

Chairman HARKIN. Were any paid through government guarantees or write-offs drawing upon government funds, that you know 

of? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Not that I am aware of, sir. I believe that several 

of the loans were a Community Block Grant loan from a county, 

were from a cooperative or a county, and an electric cooperative 

that lent money to the company. Those have all been paid. 

Chairman HARKIN. Very good. Thank you very much. I have no 

further questions. Does anybody have any follow-up questions at 

all? 

We had asked committee members for any written questions they 

had to be submitted by 6 p.m. Maybe that is not feasible now, I 

don’t know. But let me just say for all the staff that is here, if any 

of your Senators may not have been here or if they have a followup question, if we could have those in writing tonight by, well, how 

about by 8 or so tonight. Fair enough? So if you have those, get 

them in tonight. If we don’t have any, then we don’t have any, but 

I want to give an opportunity for Senators that may not have been 

able, I mean, if they could not be here, if they had a question or 

two, to get that in writing which we will then submit to you for 

your response, Governor. 

Yes? 

Senator CONRAD. Mr. Chairman, might I inquire if there is a possibility that the Committee could take early action? This is an unusual situation. I would not normally ask this, but it may be a 

once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Governor Schafer to be able to 

enter the chamber for the President’s State of the Union with the 

rest of the cabinet. Is there any possibility that we could have an 

early vote out of the Committee so that confirmation could be considered on the floor? 

39

Chairman HARKIN. Well, I don’t know. We were just discussing 

that at the beginning of the hearing here. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Mr. Chairman, I didn’t realize you had indicated to folks they need to get their questions in by 6. I mean, this 

is as big a crowd as we have had for any confirmation hearing, I 

think in the last several years, and it looks like everybody has had 

a full chance to be here. If you have told others to have their questions in by 6, maybe we could move this earlier tonight. I have gotten an indication from all of my members who have been here that 

they will be ready to come back on a moment’s notice to try to get 

a quorum together. Let us get this nomination passed out early 

this evening. 

Chairman HARKIN. Well, I don’t know how late we are going to 

be in, but I had, because of another committee meeting, Appropriations, I had to delay this until 2:30, so I thought, well, we can give 

them an extra hour. But if we don’t hear something back from 

other Senators by—how about 7, give them another hour to do 

that. 

The problem is, the Senate rules wouldn’t allow us to—we don’t 

have a quorum, so we can’t report it out, so——

Senator CHAMBLISS. I believe we only need 11, though, to have 

a quorum, isn’t that right? We can’t do it now, but if we could do 

it at 7, try to get 11 of us together——

Chairman HARKIN. We will examine what we can do. I understand that. I appreciate that. I have no problems with that. Sometimes bureaucracy is a terrible thing around here, to try to get 

things working and get it done, but we will try our best. That is 

all I can tell you. We will try our best. 

Senator CONRAD. I would just say, Mr. Chairman, I would certainly appreciate it personally if we could find a way, and I think 

this Committee under your leadership has been already so gracious. I again want to just say how much I appreciate what you 

have already done. 

Chairman HARKIN. Well, thank you very much, Senator Conrad, 

and we will do everything we can to expedite this. Sometimes these 

wheels turn very slowly for some things, but we will try our best. 

That is all I can tell you. I give you my word on that. We will try 

our best to get it done before Monday evening. That is all I can tell 

you. 

Senator CONRAD. I appreciate that. 

Chairman HARKIN. Anything else, Governor? 

Mr. SCHAFER. Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time. 

Chairman HARKIN. Thank you very much, Governor. Thank you 

all for being here. 

The committee will stand adjourned. Now, I don’t know when we 

are going to try to get this together to report this out, but we will 

try to work something out. That is all I can tell you. I will work 

with Senator Chambliss on that. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 5:44 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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