1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

2 FORT LAUDERDALE, DIVISION

3

4 AKAI CUSTOM GUNS, LLC,

a Florida Limited Liability Company,

5 and SHAY HOROWITZ, an Individual,

6 Plaintiffs,

7 vs.

8 KKM PRECISION, INC., a Nevada Corporation,

SHOOTERS CONNECTIONS, INC., a Kentucky

9 Corporation, CHARLES BRADLEY, an Individual

and Kentucky Resident, TIMOTHY MEKOSH,

10 an Individual and Kentucky Resident, and MICHAEL

DAME, a Canadian Citizen and Kentucky Resident,

11

 Defendants.

12

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

13

DEPOSITION OF: MATTHEW CHEELY

14

DATE TAKEN: October 19, 2022

15

TIME: 11:02 a.m. to 3:44 p.m.

16

PLACE: *All parties and court reporter

17 appeared via videoconference

18 TAKEN BY: Defendant, Shooters Connection, Inc.

19 REPORTED BY: FILIZ SERDIO

 Court Reporter

20 Notary Public, State of Florida

21

22

23

24

25

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S:

2 EDMUND S. YEE, ESQUIRE

RICHARD FIATO, ESQUIRE

3 OF: McKelvie, McKelvie, Yee & Epacs, P.C.

 280 West Maple Road

4 Suite 220

 Birmingham, Michigan 48009

5

 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS

6

7 JOHN Y. BENFORD, ESQUIRE

OF: Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz

8 Edelman & Dicker, LLP

 111 North Orange Avenue

9 Suite 1200

 Orlando, Florida 32801

10

 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT SHOOTERS

11 CONNECTION, INC.

12

NICHOLAS CARDAMONE, ESQUIRE

13 OF: Cole, Scott & Kissane, P.A.

 222 Lakeview Avenue

14 Suite 120

 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401

15

 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT SHOOTERS

16 CONNECTION, INC.

17

NICHOLAS MARI, ESQUIRE

18 KEVIN ROBINSON, ESQUIRE

OF: Zimmerman, Kiser, Sutcliff, P.A.

19 315 East Robinson Street

 Suite 600

20 Orlando, Florida 32802

21 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF KKM PRECISION, INC.

22

23 ALSO PRESENT: Shay Horowitz

 Luke McIntire

24 Charles Bradley

25

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1 C O N T E N T S

2 TESTIMONY OF MATTHEW CHEELY

3 Direct Examination by Mr. Benford.....................5

 Cross-Examination by Mr. Robinson....................53

4 Cross-Examination by Mr. Fiato.......................66

 Recross Examination by Mr. Robinson.................185

5 Recross Examination by Mr. Fiato....................188

6 CERTIFICATE OF OATH......................................191

7 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER..................................192

8 - - - - -

9 EXHIBITS

10

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1.................................87

11 (Dame communication)

12 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2.................................87

 (Picture of Akai compensator)

13

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 3.................................87

14 (Picture of Cheely Gunworks compensator)

15 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 4.................................87

 (Shay Horowitz Facebook post)

16

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 5.................................87

17 (Picture of Bedell compensator)

18 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 6.................................92

 (Picture of Infinity grip)

19

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 7.................................93

20 (Picture of Cheely grip)

21 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 8.................................95

 (Magwell insert Ice by Dawson)

22

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 9.................................96

23 (Picture of Cheely magwell insert)

24 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 10...............................102

 (Cheely Facebook post)

25

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1 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 11...............................106

 (Cheely Facebook post)

2

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 12...............................111

3 (Email from Cheely to McIntire)

4 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 13...............................143

 (John Vlieger correspondence)

5

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 14...............................152

6 (John Vlieger correspondence)

7 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 15...............................161

 (Michael Dame correspondence)

8

Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 16...............................178

9 (Bobby Keigans Facebook post)

10 Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 17...............................182

 (Bobby Keigans picture)

11

12 - - - - -

13 S T I P U L A T I O N S

14 It is hereby agreed and so stipulated by and

15 between the parties hereto, through their respective

16 counsel, that the reading and signing of the

17 transcript are expressly waived by the Deponent.

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 ***********

3 THE COURT REPORTER: Please raise your right

4 hand for me.

5 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the

6 testimony you are about to give will be the truth,

7 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

8 THE WITNESS: I do.

9 THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you, sir. You may

10 put your hand down.

11 Counsel, you may proceed.

12 MATTHEW CHEELY,

13 having been first duly sworn or affirmed, testified under

14 oath as follows:

15 DIRECT EXAMINATION

16 BY MR. BENFORD:

17 Q Good morning, Mr. Cheely.

18 A Good morning.

19 Q Mr. Cheely, my name is John Benford. I'm with

20 the law firm of Wilson, Elser. And we represent the

21 defendant, Shooters Connection, Inc. in this case.

22 Have you ever had your deposition taken

23 before?

24 A Never.

25 Q As you probably know, it's basically a series

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1 of questions and answers. And I -- just a couple of --

2 I'm not gonna explain the rules or burden you with that,

3 but just a couple of rules and guidelines just to keep

4 in mind.

5 If you don't understand a question, please ask

6 me to repeat or explain, and I'll do my best to clarify

7 the question. If -- allow me to finish the question

8 before you answer, because if you and I -- and that goes

9 for any of the attorneys -- if you and any of the

10 attorneys, including myself, are speaking at the same

11 time, then Filiz can't accurately record your testimony.

12 And, then, if you need to take a break for any

13 reason, just indicate and we will take a break.

14 A All right.

15 Q Okay. All right. Please state your full name

16 for the record.

17 A Matthew Glenn Cheely.

18 Q Mr. Cheely, what is your date of birth?

19 A 9/21/83.

20 Q And what do you do for a living, Mr. Cheely?

21 A I own a firearm manufacturing company.

22 Q What is the name of that firearm manufacturing

23 company?

24 A Cheely Custom Gunworks, LLC.

25 Q Do you hold any kind of title, for example,

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1 owner, office, president, anything like that?

2 A Would be managing member?

3 Q Managing member.

4 Okay. So it's an LLC; is that correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And where -- where do you reside?

7 A I live in Hillsdale, Michigan.

8 MR. FIATO: Was that Hillsdale, Michigan? You

9 kind of cut out.

10 THE WITNESS: Yes, Hillsdale, Michigan.

11 MR. FIATO: Thank you.

12 BY MR. BENFORD:

13 Q What county is that in in Michigan?

14 A Hillsdale.

15 Q Hillsdale County.

16 Okay. Where is Cheely Custom Guns located?

17 A We're located in Hudson, Michigan.

18 Q And what county is Hudson in.

19 A It's in Lenawee County.

20 Q Could you spell that please?

21 A L-e-n-a-w-e-e.

22 Q Now, I believe you testified that Cheely

23 Customs manufactures guns.

24 A Yes.

25 Q Does it manufacture anything else other than

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1 guns?

2 A We manufacture mostly components to build guns

3 with.

4 Q Are the guns and the components that Cheely

5 custom manufactures primarily used in competition

6 shooting?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Approximately what percentage of the products

9 that Cheely Customs makes are used in competition

10 shooting?

11 A The vast majority of them. You know, probably

12 90-plus percent.

13 Q Now, is this competition pistol shooting?

14 A Yes.

15 Q How long has Cheely Customs been operating?

16 A About 12 years.

17 Q And just briefly, as far as components or

18 parts, what would be some examples of some of the parts

19 that Cheely Customs makes?

20 A We make the frame for the pistol, the grip,

21 trigger, magwells, scope mounts. Probably 80 precent of

22 the parts that go into building one of these pistols we

23 make.

24 Q And the kind of pistol that you are typically

25 manufacturing parts for -- what types of the pistols

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1 does Cheely manufacture parts for?

2 A We call it a 1911 or 2011 platform pistol.

3 Q So is it fair to say the vast majority of the

4 parts that Cheely Customs makes would either go into a

5 1911 or a 19 -- I'm sorry -- 1911 or 2011 pistol?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And these pistols are primarily used for

8 competition shooting; correct?

9 A Primarily.

10 Q You mentioned the frame of a pistol is one of

11 the parts that Cheely Customs makes; correct?

12 A Yes.

13 Q What is a frame?

14 A Frame is the serialized component, the

15 component that's considered to be the firearm by the

16 federal government.

17 Q Is it one of the larger parts of a gun?

18 A Yes.

19 Q As far as all the components of a pistol, of a

20 1911 or 2011 pistol, is that one of the more complex

21 parts to make?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And what is the frame made out of?

24 A We can make it out of stainless steel, carbon

25 steel, or aluminum.

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1 Q In addition to selling parts that Cheely

2 Customs make, does Cheely Customs also sell gun parts

3 that are made by other manufacturers?

4 A Yes, we do.

5 Q So is it fair to say that Cheely Customs is a

6 retailer of gun parts?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Does Cheely Customs sell barrels that are made

9 by other manufacturers?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Are you familiar with KKM Precision, Inc., one

12 of the defendants in this case?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Does Cheely Customs sell KKM Precision

15 barrels?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Approximately what percentage of the total

18 barrels that Cheely Customs sells are KKM barrels?

19 A Ninety-nine percent.

20 Q Has Cheely Customs ever sold any barrels made

21 by other manufacturers?

22 A Yes.

23 Q What manufacturers has Cheely Customs sold the

24 barrels of?

25 A We sold Schueman barrels.

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1 Q Could you please spell that?

2 A I think S-c-h-u-e-m-a-n.

3 Q Any others come to mind?

4 A I don't believe we've sold any other barrels.

5 We've used other barrels but not sold them.

6 Q What other barrels has Cheely Customs used?

7 A I've used Briley, Bar-Sto, Kart, Schueman,

8 KKM. That's all that I can recall right now.

9 Q Okay. Mr. Cheely what education do you have?

10 A I have a Bachelor's of Science in Product

11 Design from Eastern Michigan University.

12 Q And your studies or your major, product

13 design, did that course involve any studies of materials

14 used in manufacturing?

15 A Yes, it did.

16 Q What types of the materials did you study in

17 you major?

18 A It was just in general material science, as

19 far as how different types of materials would be used

20 and how they're created in their properties.

21 Q Did any of the materials you studied include

22 steel?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Do you have -- as part of those studies did

25 you learn how certain -- how steel reacts to certain

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1 forces or tolerances or things of that nature?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Prior to working for -- prior to forming --

4 I'm sorry.

5 Prior to forming Cheely Customs, where did you

6 work?

7 A I previously worked at Detroit Diesel.

8 Q And what does Detroit Diesel do?

9 A They manufacture large truck engines for

10 over-to-road semi trucks and other applications.

11 Q And when did you work for Detroit Diesel?

12 A Sorry?

13 Q When did you work for Detroit Diesel?

14 A I started there in college as an intern. And

15 then I worked for them as a contractor. And then I was

16 a full hire, worked directly for them for a total of

17 about five years.

18 Q And when was that? From when to when did you

19 work for Detroit Diesel?

20 A About 2005 to 2010.

21 Q And what did you -- what did you do for

22 Detroit Diesel?

23 A I was a performance and admissions engineer.

24 Q Do you have any experience -- in addition to

25 manufacturing guns, do you have any experience working

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1 as a gunsmith?

2 A Just my time as a amateur gunsmith, and then

3 as a professional over the last 12-plus years.

4 Q As far as working as a gunsmith -- or in your

5 work as a gunsmith, does that include repairing guns?

6 A Yes.

7 Q So how long would you say -- or when did you

8 begin working as a gunsmith, I guess, professionally?

9 A Professionally would be about 12 years ago.

10 Q And approximately when did you begin working

11 as a gunsmith non-professionally or as an amateur?

12 A I started working on my own pistols in late

13 high school, around 2000, 2002.

14 Q And in your experience working as a gunsmith,

15 could you give me some examples of some of the repairs

16 you would have made to guns?

17 A We would do part replacement, upgrades,

18 trigger jobs, machining of slides, barrel replacement,

19 compensator replacements, scope mount installations.

20 That would be some various things.

21 Q Have -- any of the barrels that you've

22 replaced, are they KKM barrels?

23 A Probably. I can't recall specifically from

24 that long ago.

25 Q You testified earlier that most of the guns

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1 and the parts that Cheely Customs sells are designed for

2 competition pistol shooting; correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q What is -- what is the -- what are the largest

5 organizations in the U.S. that conduct competition

6 pistol shooting?

7 A USPSA and IDPA.

8 Q Any others, or are those two the largest?

9 A Those would be the largest. A third one would

10 might be the Challenge Association?

11 Q Is there a competition shooting community of

12 participants that consist of shooters who regularly

13 compete in these events?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Does -- this competition shooting community,

16 does it also include manufacturers and sellers of guns

17 and parts?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Would you consider Cheely Customs part of the

20 competition shooting community?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Have you ever participated in competition

23 shooting?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What organizations?

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1 A In USPSA.

2 Q Have you won any awards?

3 A I've won some matches before, yes.

4 Q Do you hold any type of the rank in the USPSA?

5 A Yes. I'm a multi-division grandmaster.

6 Q Is grandmaster the highest rank?

7 A It is?

8 Q What percentage of all participants hold the

9 rank of a grandmaster?

10 A It's only a few percent.

11 Q You said multiple division.

12 Do you know how many divisions --

13 A Multiple different equipment division in the

14 sport, and I'm a grandmaster in three different

15 divisions.

16 Q What are those divisions?

17 A Limited, 10, and Production.

18 Q What is Limited?

19 A Limited is basically a class where anything

20 goes except you can't use a compensator or a red dot on

21 the pistol. The most common pistol used in that

22 division would be a 2011 pistol.

23 Q And what's a Limited 10 Division?

24 A The same thing but your magazine is restricted

25 to ten rounds?

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1 Q And these divisions, do they use -- do they

2 exclusively use 2011s?

3 A No.

4 Q They use 1911s as well; correct?

5 A And other pistols, yes.

6 Q Do you know -- do you know John Vlieger

7 V-l-i-e-g-e-r?

8 A Yes.

9 Q You consider Mr. Vlieger part of the

10 competition shooting community?

11 A Yes.

12 Q What is your opinion of Mr. Vlieger as a

13 shooter?

14 A He's a very highly-ranked shooter.

15 Q Now, you testified earlier that Cheely Customs

16 sells KKM barrels as a retailer.

17 Does Cheely Customs also use KKM barrels in

18 the guns that it makes?

19 A Yes.

20 Q As far as the guns that Cheely Customs makes,

21 what percentage of those guns would use KKM barrels?

22 A A hundred percent now.

23 Q Is it fair to say that Cheely Customs has been

24 using KKM barrels for the last -- in its guns -- for the

25 last 12 years?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q Does it continue to use those barrels today?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Approximately how long has Cheely Customs been

5 selling KKM barrels at a retail level?

6 A About five years.

7 Q And does it continue to sell those barrels

8 today at the retail level?

9 A Yes.

10 Q If you had to estimate, approximately how many

11 KKM barrels did Cheely Customs sell at the retail level

12 in 2017, 2018, and 2019?

13 A About 300.

14 Q Is that combined all three years?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Now, prior to forming Cheely Customs 12 years

17 ago, did you use KKM barrels in any of your gunsmithing

18 work?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And when would you have first started using

21 KKM barrels in your gunsmithing work?

22 A I couldn't say exactly.

23 Q But was it prior to ten years ago?

24 A It would have been. We used multiple

25 different barrel manufacturers over the years.

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1 Q In your experience as a manufacturer and a

2 retailer, what is your opinion as to the quality of KKM

3 barrels?

4 A They're very good barrels.

5 Q Why do you say that?

6 A The tolerances are always right on. It

7 finishes great. Excellent price. And the company is a

8 very well run company that takes care of me, so I like

9 to use their products because I think they're the best

10 products out there.

11 Q What is the reputation for KKM, as far as the

12 quality of their product, in the competition pistol

13 shooting community?

14 A Very good reputation.

15 Q Have you ever been made aware of any KKM

16 barrel that was defective?

17 A I was told a few years back by someone that

18 somebody in the industry was having a problem, yes.

19 Q Who was that?

20 A My insurance agent called me and told me that

21 somebody was having some problems and I should

22 investigate.

23 Q Did your insurance agent mention who they were

24 referring to?

25 A Not that I recall.

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1 Q As you sit here today, do you know who they

2 were referring to?

3 A They were referring to the Akai Custom Guns.

4 Q And your insurance agent, when did they first

5 contact you regarding this potential defect?

6 A I believe it was in 2019.

7 Q You believe it was towards the end of the

8 year?

9 A I couldn't say exactly when. I don't remember

10 the date.

11 Q Sorry. What is the name of this individual

12 from the insurance company again?

13 A His name is Roy Neal from The Insurance House.

14 Q Okay. And is Neal, N-e-a-l?

15 A I believe so.

16 Q And The Insurance House, where is that

17 located?

18 A Redford, Michigan.

19 Q And what did Mr. Neal tell you?

20 A I don't recall exactly. It was something

21 along the lines of somebody was having problems with KKM

22 barrels, so I should check it out and figure out what

23 was going on, so if there was a problem I wouldn't have

24 a problem with it.

25 Q Okay. And then shortly -- well, did

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1 you -- around that time, did you contact Shay Horowitz

2 regarding -- you know, regarding this issue?

3 A I don't believe I contacted him about that.

4 Q Did he contact you?

5 A Yes. At that time we were chatting, and he

6 was buying products from me.

7 Q And what did Mr. Horowitz tell you?

8 A He told me that he had some soft barrels and

9 he was having problems with guns because he had soft

10 barrels.

11 Q And did he mention the name of the

12 manufacturer of the soft barrels?

13 A KKM, yes.

14 Q And you recall him saying KKM?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Now, other than Mr. Horowitz and I guess

17 Mr. Neal, has there been any occasion where somebody has

18 made you aware that KKM barrels may be defective?

19 A No.

20 Q Have you ever observed any defective KKM

21 barrels?

22 A No.

23 Q Have you ever observed any problems with KKM

24 barrels, for example, a cracking, exploding, anything

25 like that?

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1 A Not other than due to user error, like a

2 double charge or a squib with a round fired behind it,

3 which would destroy any barrel.

4 Q The double charge and the squibs -- well, tell

5 me, what is a double charge?

6 A That's where somebody is reloading ammunition

7 and they accidently put a double charge of powder into

8 the case, you know, results in extremely high, you know,

9 chamber pressure, and it can cause the barrel to split

10 open and destroy the firearm.

11 Q And tell me what squib is?

12 A A squib is where you would have a round that

13 either had no powder or not enough powder to eject the

14 bullet all the way from the barrel, the primer will

15 cause the bullet to leave the case and get stuck in the

16 barrel, and then if you shoot another round behind it,

17 that's called a -- you know, shooting another round

18 behind a squib, and that can also bulge or blow up the

19 barrel and destroy the pistol.

20 Q And this would be a user-related error?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Have -- do you believe -- in your experience

23 using KKM barrels, do you believe that any of the

24 barrels that you've ever used or Cheely Customs has used

25 or sold were not suited in any way for competition

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1 shooting?

2 A No.

3 Q Have any of your customers ever sent a KKM

4 barrel back indicating that there was a problem with the

5 barrel?

6 A No.

7 Q Are you familiar with the other defendant in

8 this case -- or one of the other defendants, Shooters

9 Connection?

10 A Yes.

11 Q How do you -- how are you familiar with

12 Shooters Connection?

13 A I've done business with them for probably 20

14 years.

15 Q Have you ever purchased any KKM barrels from

16 Shooters Connection?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And in additional to barrels, have you

19 purchased other parts from Shooters Connection?

20 A Yes.

21 Q When would you have begun purchasing barrels

22 from Shooters Connection?

23 A Would have started at the beginning, 20 years

24 ago.

25 Q As far as the barrels that you purchased from

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1 Shooters Connection, the KKM barrels, have any of those

2 barrels been defective?

3 A No.

4 Q In general, what has been your experience as a

5 customer of Shooters Connection?

6 A They've been very good to deal with.

7 Q Have they ever misrepresented any

8 specifications in their products?

9 MR. FIATO: Object to form.

10 A No.

11 BY MR. BENFORD:

12 Q Have they ever concealed any information that

13 you thought was important?

14 A No.

15 Q As a customer, is Shooters Connection

16 responsive to any issues that you might have regarding

17 one of its product?

18 A They're very responsive.

19 Q Have you ever known KKM or Shooters Connection

20 to sell any gun barrels that are too soft for

21 competitive shooting?

22 MR. FIATO: Object to form.

23 You can answer.

24 A No.

25

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1 BY MR. BENFORD:

2 Q Are you familiar with Rockwell hardness?

3 A Yes.

4 Q What's your understanding of Rockwell

5 hardness?

6 A It's a type of test to determine the hardness

7 of a material.

8 Q Is it commonly used to determine the hardness

9 of steel?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Has KKM or Shooters Connection ever sold you a

12 KKM barrel that has insufficient Rockwell hardness for

13 competitive shooting?

14 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

15 A No.

16 BY MR. BENFORD:

17 Q All right. Do you recall any occasion where

18 Shooters Connection or KKM would have sold you a KKM

19 barrel that had a softer type of steel or steel that was

20 too soft for competitive shooting?

21 A Too soft? No.

22 Q Have you ever purchased a KKM barrel from

23 Shooters Connection that had a different Rockwell

24 hardness than a barrel you would have bought directly

25 from KKM?

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1 A No.

2 Q Is there any standard, any gun manufacturing

3 that you're aware of that barrels need to have a certain

4 type of Rockwell hardness?

5 A Could you say that again?

6 Q Yeah.

7 Is there some kind of -- is there a standard

8 in gun manufacturing or gun building that barrels need

9 to have a certain level of Rockwell hardness, a certain

10 number of Rockwell hardness?

11 A I think anyone would expect that you would get

12 a barrel that's hard enough to perform its duty. I

13 don't think many people would know or understand a

14 number of what the hardness was and it if was sufficient

15 or not.

16 Q In your experience, are retailers of gun parts

17 like Shooters Connection, like Cheely Customs, are they

18 typically familiar with metallurgy?

19 A No.

20 Q Are they typically familiar with types of the

21 steel, for example, 416, 416R?

22 A They may be familiar with it, yes.

23 Q Is it typically a requirement as far as

24 ordering a part or a barrel?

25 A No.

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1 Q Are gun builders like Cheely Customs typically

2 familiar with metallurgy?

3 A I would say they're typically not.

4 Q Prior to purchasing barrels, including

5 purchasing barrels from KKM, have you or Cheely Customs

6 ever checked to see if the barrels were made out of 416R

7 steel?

8 A No.

9 Q Are you familiar with the term "416R?"

10 A Yes.

11 Q Prior to purchasing any KKM barrels, have you

12 ever -- you individually or you on behalf of Cheely

13 Customs, ever determined the Rockwell hardness of a

14 barrel?

15 A No.

16 Q Do assume manufacturers like KKM are gonna

17 make barrels with sufficient hardness for competitive

18 shooting?

19 A Yes, I would assume it would be proper.

20 Q Have you ever or Cheely Customs, to your

21 knowledge, ever contacted a gun part retailer like

22 Shooters Connection to gain information regarding an

23 manufacturing process of a part?

24 A Contacted Shooters Connection, no.

25 Q Yes, sir.

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1 Okay. In your experience if Cheely Customs

2 wanted to learns about the manufacturing process of a

3 part that's used in a gun, who would you contact?

4 A I'd contact the manufacturer.

5 Q Does Cheely Customs include information

6 regarding gun barrels it sells on its website?

7 A Yes.

8 Q What types of information?

9 A The configuration of the barrel, the caliber,

10 the length, if it's threaded or not, the type of ramp.

11 Q Has it ever posted any information or included

12 any information on its website regarding the type of

13 steel that the barrel is made out of?

14 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

15 A Not that I can recall.

16 BY MR. BENFORD:

17 Q So do you recall posting any information

18 relating to 416 or 416R steel?

19 A No.

20 Q Post any -- okay. Did Cheely Customs ever

21 post any information relating to the Rockwell hardness

22 of the barrel?

23 A No.

24 Q Have you ever observed other gun part

25 retailers posting information relating to the Rockwell

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1 hardness or the type of steel used in a gun barrel?

2 A Occasionally I've seen it, yes.

3 Q Okay. Does Cheely Customs -- do the customers

4 of Cheely Customs ever contact you to ask you questions

5 about type of steel used in a barrel?

6 A Every once in a while somebody will ask a

7 question like that, yes.

8 Q It's not a common occurrence?

9 A No.

10 Q Are your customers typically familiar with the

11 barrels -- I'm sorry. Strike that.

12 Are your customers typically familiar with the

13 manufacturers that make the gun barrels they purchase

14 from you?

15 A I would say, yes.

16 Q You had testified that you had a discussion in

17 late 2019 with Mr. Horowitz regarding his allegations

18 that KKM barrels were defective?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And you also -- around the same time you spoke

21 to Mr. Neal regarding those allegations; correct?

22 A It would have been after that at some point,

23 yes.

24 Q Around this time, were your customers also

25 calling you asking questions regarding these allegations

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1 that KKM barrels were defective?

2 A Not that I recall.

3 Q Did you have any concern that the KKM barrels

4 might be defective after you spoke to Mr. Neal and

5 Mr. Horowitz?

6 A Yes, I was concerned.

7 Q Why were you concerned?

8 A Because I had 40 or more barrels from KKM in

9 stock in my facility.

10 Q Now, you had testified earlier that you spoke

11 to Mr. Horowitz about his allegations that the KKM

12 barrels were defective; correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q He specifically told you that the barrels he

15 was alleging were defective were KKM barrels; is that

16 correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Did he explain why he thought the barrels were

19 defective?

20 A Yes. He said things about -- he said they

21 were soft. That they're -- the hood length was getting

22 sent back upon firing. And things of that nature.

23 Q Do you recall why Mr. Horowitz was calling

24 you?

25 A We were speaking occasionally about the

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1 industry. And he was ordering parts from me at the

2 time, and we had occasion to chat about it.

3 Q Do you remember anything else about that

4 conversation?

5 A Not specifically.

6 Q Did he mention that he was testing his KKM

7 barrels?

8 A Yes.

9 Q All right. And did he provide you with his

10 test results?

11 A Provided me, no. He just said that they were

12 soft. He may have told me a Rockwell number, but I do

13 not remember what it would have been.

14 Q Okay. Did he mention that he purchased the

15 barrels from Shooters Connection?

16 A I believe he did.

17 Q Did he ask you to keep confidentiality his

18 belief that the KKM barrels were defective?

19 A I don't remember him saying that, no.

20 Q So he ever said anything like, "Don't tell

21 anybody that I believe these barrels are defective"?

22 A Not that I recall.

23 Q Now, after you spoke with Mr. Horowitz -- or

24 some time after you spoke with Mr. Horowitz, do you

25 recall -- or did you test the barrels yourself?

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1 A Yes, I tested all of the barrels that we had

2 in stock in the shop.

3 Q How many barrels were that -- or was that

4 approximately?

5 A It was approximately 40 barrels.

6 Q Approximately 40 KKM barrels; is that correct?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Just to be clear, what kinds of barrels were

9 these? I mean, they were pistol barrels; correct?

10 A They were 1911, 2011 pistol barrels.

11 Q Was there -- were they a certain type of

12 barrel dimension, or did that vary?

13 A Multiple different calibers, lengths, and

14 configurations.

15 Q Okay. So how did you test the 40 barrels that

16 you had at that time?

17 A Around that time I had a Rockwell hardness

18 tester in our facility, and I tested all those barrels

19 on the back of the hood down the longitudinal length of

20 the barrel. I tested all 40 of them -- 40-plus.

21 Q What kind of Rockwell tester did you have?

22 A I don't know the brand.

23 Q Was it new or used? Do you recall?

24 A New.

25 Q Do you know if it had been calibrated?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q You mentioned you tested on the hood.

3 Where exactly is that on a barrel?

4 A It be the very most rearward part of the

5 barrel opposite the muzzle.

6 Q Now, how did you know how to test barrels?

7 A I didn't. That seemed like the most logical

8 place to test the barrel without putting a mark on it

9 that you would see after the pistol was assembled.

10 Q And what did your test results indicate?

11 A Almost all of the barrels were -- had a

12 hardness, you know, above 42. And I had two specific

13 barrels that seemed to be quite a bit softer than all

14 the other barrels.

15 Q When you say "softer," what were they

16 Rockwell --

17 A Rockwell was in the 30s.

18 Q Do you remember was it lower, middle, upper

19 30s?

20 A I believe it was a mid 30s.

21 Q After you tested the barrel -- after you

22 tested the barrels, did you have any other testing done?

23 A I sent the two soft barrels back to KKM for

24 evaluation after calling and talking to them.

25 Q What did KKM do?

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1 A They tested the barrels on their very

2 expensive machine in the correct location, which is on

3 the barrel foot. I was informed that you can't test the

4 barrel on the back of the hood, there's too much

5 potential for deflection of the barrel, which would give

6 you an inaccurate reading.

7 So they tested both barrels, as I recall, five

8 times each, and determined that they were acceptable

9 hardness. The hardness was above 40 or 42. And they

10 sent the barrels back to us.

11 Q Were you confident that KKM knew how to test

12 barrels at that time?

13 A Very confident.

14 Q Why do you say "very confident?"

15 A Because they're the manufacturer and had the

16 very expensive machine that they had set up specifically

17 to be able to test the barrel in the correct location on

18 the foot where there's no potential for deflection and

19 it's solid all the way through, and, you know, tested

20 the barrel five times and had some kind of a printout

21 that they sent me that showed those results on each

22 barrel.

23 Q Do you still have that printout?

24 A I do not.

25 Q Did anybody else indicate that the proper

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1 location to test a barrel for Rockwell hardness is on

2 the foot?

3 A Anybody else?

4 Q Yeah. Other than KKM?

5 A No. I didn't speak to anybody else about it.

6 Q Who did you speak to at KKM?

7 A I spoke to the Luke, McIntire I believe is his

8 last name.

9 Q Prior to that testing, have you ever met

10 Mr. McIntire?

11 A I het him briefly once at SHOT Show in Las

12 Vegas many years prior.

13 Q Had you ever spoken to him on the phone prior

14 to this occasion in late 2019 where you're testing

15 barrels?

16 A Yes, occasionally we would speak.

17 Q What would you typically speak about?

18 A Just about orders and business general.

19 Q The barrels that Mr. McIntire -- first of all,

20 did Mr. McIntire say that he tested the barrels himself?

21 A Yes, I believe so.

22 Q What happened to the barrels after he tested

23 them?

24 A He sent them back to us. And we either used

25 them or sold them. I couldn't be sure exactly where the

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1 barrels where.

2 Q But you recall either using them or selling

3 them?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Do you recall setting them aside because you

6 thought they may be defective?

7 A No. We cleaned up the finish on them so they

8 looked new again and put them back on the shelf to sell.

9 Q Were you satisfied that the barrels were not

10 defective?

11 A Yes.

12 Q When he sent the barrels back to you, were

13 there marks on the barrels where KKM had tested them?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Were they the same barrels -- two barrels that

16 you sent to KKM?

17 A I believe so. They still had the marks on the

18 back of the hood that I put in the barrels testing them

19 in the first place.

20 Q Did you ever suggest to Mr. Horowitz that he

21 should also send his barrels to KKM for testing?

22 A I believe I did say that he should send one

23 back to them and work with them to see what was going on

24 with his soft barrels, yes.

25 Q And was that during the conversations that you

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1 testified to earlier?

2 A We had multiple conversations over time, and I

3 believe during one of those I would have asked him if he

4 had sent one back to KKM.

5 Q When you asked him, what did he reply?

6 A I think he replied in the negative. I don't

7 recall the reason why, but that he had not sent the

8 barrel back to them.

9 Q Do you believe it's reasonable for a purchaser

10 to claim a part is defective then not return it to the

11 seller?

12 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

13 MR. FIATO: Form.

14 A No.

15 BY MR. BENFORD:

16 Q Have you ever purchased a part that was

17 defective or non-conforming or otherwise problematic?

18 A In general?

19 Q Yeah.

20 A Yes.

21 Q Did you return it to the manufacturer?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Was there an occasion where you refused to

24 return it to the manufacturer?

25 A Not that I can ever recall.

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1 Q Have any customers ever had any issues with

2 your parts?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And have they returned them?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Do you recall any of them that refused to

7 return parts?

8 A No.

9 Q You know -- when you sent your barrel to KKM,

10 do you know if they secretly swapped the barrels for

11 different barrels?

12 MR. FIATO: Object to form.

13 A No.

14 BY MR. BENFORD:

15 Q Have you heard anybody allege this, that KKM

16 secretly swaps its barrels?

17 A No.

18 Q Did you ever tell Shay Horowitz that you

19 believe that KKM secretly swapped your barrels?

20 A No.

21 Q I'm gonna read an excerpt from page 307 of

22 Mr. Horowitz's deposition, Mr. Horowitz is testifying,

23 "Answer: I read online in a few places where KKM

24 swapped their barrels when they had soft barrels; but

25 specifically, Cheely specifically told he that he found

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1 some soft barrels, he sent them to KKM, and they swapped

2 them."

3 Did you ever tell that to Mr. Horowitz?

4 A Not that I recall.

5 Q So is that a false statement Mr. Horowitz is

6 making?

7 MR. FIATO: Object to form.

8 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

9 MR. FIATO: He said he didn't recall.

10 BY MR. BENFORD:

11 Q Do you believe that's a false statement

12 Mr. Horowitz is making?

13 A I believe so.

14 Q Do you know why Mr. Horowitz would have made

15 that false statement?

16 A No, I do not.

17 Q So after -- I believe you testified that after

18 KKM had tested the barrels you recall being satisfied

19 that the barrels were okay?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And I believe you testified that Cheely

22 Customs continues to use KKM barrels today; is that

23 correct?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Would Cheely Customs continue to sell KKM

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1 barrels if it believed they were defective or not suited

2 for competition shooting?

3 A Absolutely not.

4 Q Would Cheely Customs continue to use barrels

5 in the manufacturing of its guns if it believed

6 barrels -- KKM barrels were not suited for competition

7 shooting?

8 A No.

9 Q Do you continue to purchase barrels from

10 Shooters Connection?

11 A Occasionally.

12 Q Do you continue to purchase parts from

13 Shooters Connection?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Would you purchase barrels or gun parts from

16 Shooters Connection if you thought Shooters Connection

17 was selling defective parts or barrels?

18 A No, I would not.

19 Q Would you do business with Shooters Connection

20 if you thought that they were selling products that are

21 not suited for competition shooting?

22 A Well, I would buy products from them that

23 weren't suited -- or weren't set up for competition

24 shooting if that's what they sold and I needed them.

25 Q Well, would you purchase parts -- gun parts

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1 from Shooters Connection, including barrels, if you

2 believe that those parts were unsafe?

3 A No, I would not.

4 Q Now, you mentioned that you did business with

5 Akai?

6 A I did, yes.

7 Q And that -- does that include selling parts to

8 Akai?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Was there a point when you stopped doing

11 business?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Why did you stop doing business with Akai?

14 A I didn't think that the way he was going about

15 the KKM situation was proper. And I didn't want him to

16 do the same thing with me and the parts that we were

17 selling him, so I told him that I would not like to do

18 business with him anymore, and we have not sold him

19 anything since.

20 Q When you say that you didn't think it was --

21 what he was doing with KKM was proper, what -- can you

22 expound on that a little bit?

23 A I would say he should have sent a barrel back

24 to KKM and worked with them to figure out what was going

25 on, not to hold parts back and not send the part back to

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1 them, especially if he had a lot of barrels that were

2 bad. And I didn't want him to do the same thing with us

3 and accuse us of making bad parts five years down the

4 road and not sending us one back to inspect and then

5 suing us for a lot of money.

6 Q What is Akai's reputation in the competition

7 shooting community for a gun building quality?

8 A I would say it's not very good.

9 Q So you would -- is it fair to say that their

10 representation is poor?

11 A Yes.

12 Q When did you first become affair that Akai had

13 a poor representation for the quality of its gun?

14 A Over ten years ago.

15 Q Are you aware of any gunsmiths having to

16 frequently repair or rebuild Akai guns?

17 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

18 A Yes.

19 BY MR. BENFORD:

20 Q Is there a -- is the reputation in the

21 competition shooting community that gunsmiths have to

22 frequently repair Akai guns?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Will you work on Akai guns?

25 A No.

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1 Q Why is that?

2 A It's not a winning situation. If you repair

3 the gun properly then it works, then it looks like the

4 Akai gun works well; then if you repair it and it

5 doesn't work then it shows poorly on you for doing a

6 poor repair if you can't get it to work right.

7 Q Why would that be any different than any other

8 gun manufacturer?

9 A It wouldn't for any other gun manufacturer. I

10 generally do not work on any other manufacturers

11 firearms.

12 Q Okay. Have you observed any problems with

13 Akai guns?

14 A Yes.

15 Q What types of problems?

16 A Mainly poor barrel fitting, loose fitting,

17 poor machining.

18 Q What would be an example of loose fittings?

19 A I inspected a firearm that they had built

20 that, in my opinion, the barrel was not fit well; it was

21 fit loose where it rattles around a little bit, you can

22 move the components in relation to each other when

23 they're locked up, as we would call it, in battery.

24 That customer sent the gun to a gunsmith that I knew and

25 was at his shop for a repair because he couldn't get it

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1 repaired from Akai.

2 Q What type of machine work issues have you

3 observed?

4 A Mostly poor surface finish, that kind of

5 thing.

6 Q Can that lead to problems, as far as the gun

7 functioning?

8 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

9 A It could, but it's mostly a cosmetic issue.

10 BY MR. BENFORD:

11 Q Have you observed issues with the slides or

12 frames of Akai guns?

13 A Not specifically that, no; other than, you

14 know, the machine work or the fitting of the components

15 together not being the best, in my opinion.

16 Q Have you ever heard the term "rattle trap?"

17 A Yeah.

18 Q What does that mean?

19 A That would be coming from, if you picked up a

20 pistol and you shook it in your hand it would rattle,

21 where a custom gun should be very tightly fit together.

22 Q Have you ever heard anybody describe Akai guns

23 as rattle traps?

24 A Not that I can specifically remember, no.

25 Q Are you aware of any occasion where -- let's

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1 see.

2 Have you been sent any kind of photographs or

3 videos from other gunsmiths relating to repair issues

4 pertaining to Akai guns?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Have other gunsmiths expressed negative

7 opinions to you regarding Akai guns?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Are you aware that Akai uses something called

10 a Tungsten Sleeve?

11 A Yes.

12 Q What is your opinion of a Tungsten Sleeve?

13 A I don't think it has much point. And it

14 shortens the life of a pistol no matter how well it's

15 built.

16 Q Why does it shorten the life of a pistol?

17 A Tungsten Sleeve is a sleeving material added

18 to the outside of a barrel to make it heavier, and,

19 thus, shoot softer, but I believe it causes a gun to

20 wear out prematurely due to the weight being much higher

21 than originally intended for the design of the pistol.

22 Q What is the effect of the Akai sleeve

23 application to the barrel?

24 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

25 A Could you repeat or expound on that question?

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1 BY MR. BENFORD:

2 Q Sure.

3 How does the Tungsten Sleeve -- well, it's

4 your understanding that the Tungsten Sleeve application

5 involves milling down the barrel?

6 A Turning down the barrel and threating the

7 barrel so you could thread on the sleeve.

8 Q Your upstanding of turning down the barrel is

9 reducing the barrel diameter?

10 A Yes.

11 Q In your experience as a gunsmith, is this a

12 good idea?

13 A Turning it down past the standard diameter of

14 a bushing barrel wouldn't be very smart, in my opinion.

15 Q Would that increase the likelihood, in your

16 experience, of the barrel failing?

17 A It would increase the likelihood of it

18 breaking, yes.

19 Q Would it also increase the likelihood of other

20 components in the gun failing?

21 A Just by turning down the barrel, not

22 specifically, no.

23 Q You mentioned it would increase the wear of

24 the gun; is that correct?

25 A The wear of the barrel into the gun, yes.

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1 Q Okay. And what do you mean exactly by that,

2 "the wear of the barrel into the gun"?

3 A So the barrel interacts with the slide and the

4 lug cuts in the slide, and those interfaced points are

5 the points that generally wear out in a pistol and would

6 cause it to, you know, fail or not work very well or --

7 et cetera.

8 Q What is Akai's reputation for servicing its

9 guns, warranty work and that kind of thing?

10 A A lot of people don't have a very good opinion

11 of them. I've seen very many customers that can't get

12 their guns to work and he stops repairing them or

13 talking to them so they have to go to another gunsmith

14 to try and get it to work.

15 Q Have any of these customers gone to you,

16 asking for your services?

17 A I've had people ask me, but I don't provide

18 those services.

19 Q How would you describe Mr. Horowitz's

20 reputation in the competition shooting community for

21 honesty?

22 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

23 A Not very good.

24 BY MR. BENFORD:

25 Q Have you ever heard people in the competition

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1 shooting community refer to him as "shady" or "Shady

2 Shay"?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Is that -- to your understanding, is that a

5 nickname?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And is your understanding that's a derogatory

8 nickname that refers to his lack of honesty?

9 A Yes.

10 Q When is the first time you heard Mr. Horowitz

11 referred to as Shady Shea?

12 A That would have been over ten years ago.

13 Q So, in other words, a long time before you had

14 this discussion with him in late 2019?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Have you heard numerous people use that

17 negative term, that negative nickname, Shady Shea?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Have you heard other negative comments in the

20 competition shooting community regarding Mr. Horowitz's

21 reputation for honesty?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Are you aware of negative Internet posts

24 relating to Mr. Horowitz?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q Have you seen these negative -- have you

2 actually seen these negative Internet posts?

3 A That would have been the first place I seen

4 the Shady nickname used, would have been online.

5 Q And did you see those Internet posts prior to

6 2019?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Were other people aware of these negative

9 Internet posts?

10 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

11 A Yes.

12 BY MR. BENFORD:

13 Q And were others in the competition shooting

14 community aware of these posts prior to 2019?

15 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

16 You can answer.

17 A Yes.

18 BY MR. BENFORD:

19 Q Prior to 2019, were you aware of a negative

20 Internet post alleging Mr. Horowitz was involved in a

21 day trading scam?

22 A I was aware of that, yes.

23 Q And prior to 2019, do you recall others in the

24 competition shooting community aware of that post on the

25 Internet regarding the day trading scam?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q And are -- these people that were aware of the

3 day trading scam post, were they part of the competition

4 shooting community?

5 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

6 A Yes.

7 BY MR. BENFORD:

8 Q Are you aware of Akai not paying its vendors?

9 MR. FIATO: Objection; form.

10 A Not specifically.

11 BY MR. BENFORD:

12 Q Are you aware of any vendors who have refused

13 to do business with Mr. Horowitz?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Are you aware of Mr. Horowitz disparaging

16 other members of the competition shooting community

17 online?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Does he have a reputation for disparaging

20 other members of the community online?

21 A I don't know that I would say that, but he

22 definitely has.

23 Q Do you recall in early 2020 that KKM and

24 Shooters Connection posted an open letter responding to

25 the accusations Mr. Horowitz was making that KKM barrels

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1 were soft?

2 A Yes.

3 Q When you read that open letter, did you

4 interpret the letter as KKM and Shooters Connection

5 defaming Mr. Horowitz?

6 A No.

7 Q When you read the letter, what was your

8 impression as to the purpose of the letter?

9 A I thought it was to try and uphold their

10 reputation, and that they're being unjustly sued for

11 something.

12 Q When you say "uphold reputation," are you

13 referring to the KKM and Shooters Connection reputation?

14 A Yeah.

15 Q Was it also your impression that KKM and

16 Shooters Connection were attempting to respond to

17 allegations Mr. Horowitz was making that KKM -- or that

18 they were selling defective barrels?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Is there anything you recall reading in that

21 open letter that you believe was false?

22 A I don't recall thinking any of it was false,

23 no.

24 Q Did you learn at some point that Shooters

25 Connection and -- I'm sorry.

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1 Do you recall learning at some point that Shay

2 Horowitz and Akai had demanded a million dollars from

3 Shooters Connection and a million dollars from KKM?

4 A I did learn of that at some point during that

5 time, yes.

6 Q Is it your understanding that that demand for

7 $2 million related to the allegedly defective barrels?

8 A That was my interpretation.

9 Q Do you recall anybody at Shooters Connection

10 referring to these demands as a scam?

11 A I don't recall them referring to it as that,

12 no.

13 Q Did Chuck Bradley of Shooters Connection or

14 John Vlieger ever refer to those demands as a scam?

15 A Not that I recall.

16 Q Assuming that Chuck Bradley used the term

17 "scam" to describe this $2 million demand, how would you

18 interpret that?

19 MR. YEE: Objection; form?

20 MR. FIATO: Objection; form?

21 MR. YEE: Jesus.

22 MR. BENFORD: Can we have one person

23 objecting?

24 MR. FIATO: Sure.

25 THE WITNESS: Can you say the question again?

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1 BY MR. BENFORD:

2 Q Assuming that Chuck Bradley used the term

3 "scam" to describe Mr. Horowitz's $2 million demand, how

4 would you interpret that?

5 A I'm not sure how I'd interpret it. I thought

6 the whole thing sounded like an insurance money scam to

7 me.

8 Q Have you ever heard the term "scam" used to

9 describe a frivolous demand?

10 A Yeah.

11 Q Was there anything that Shooters Connection or

12 KKM ever told you that gave you the impression that

13 Mr. Horowitz was engaging in any kind of criminal

14 activity?

15 A No.

16 Q Did anybody ever tell you that Mr. Horowitz

17 was being investigated by the FBI?

18 A No.

19 MR. BENFORD: Mr. Cheely, those are all the

20 questions I have right now. I appreciate your

21 time. Some of the other attorneys may have some

22 questions, and I would reserve my right to ask

23 questions -- follow-up questions, essentially.

24 Thank you very much for your time today.

25 THE WITNESS: Sure.

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1 MR. FIATO: Since this defendants' deposition,

2 is there -- any other defendant lawyers have any

3 questions?

4 MR. ROBINSON: Yes. We'll have some

5 questions. I'm happy to either jump in now or --

6 MR. FIATO: Go ahead.

7 CROSS-EXAMINATION

8 BY MR. ROBINSON:

9 Q Okay. Mr. Cheely, my name is Kevin Robinson.

10 I represent KKM Prescission. Mr. Benford asked the vast

11 majority of the questions that I wanted to cover with

12 you, so I'm gonna do my best not to re-ask the same

13 things. I appreciate your time and your patience this

14 morning.

15 You had discussed that a telephone call that

16 you had with Shay Horowitz in which he informed you

17 about issues he believed he had with KKM barrels.

18 Do you recall approximately what time frame

19 that conversation took place in.?

20 A I really do not. It would have been after my

21 insurance agent had alerted me about that issue in late

22 2019, and it would have occurred on I believe multiple

23 phone calls and text messages and Instagram messages at

24 that -- in that general time frame.

25 Q The document has been produced to me in the

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1 course of this litigation, and it's document Akai

2 Horowitz 568, and this document, it appears to be notes

3 that Mr. Horowitz took describing, quote, "Call with

4 Matt Cheely," it's dated 3/2/2020.

5 Is it -- do you think it's accurate to say the

6 conversations you had with Mr. Horowitz occurred

7 sometime before March 2, 2020?

8 A It could have. I really could not tell you a

9 time frame.

10 Q Okay. I just want to kind of run through the

11 bullet points in this document to see if you agree with

12 the way that Mr. Horowitz has documented your

13 conversations with him.

14 So the first bullet point says that Akai

15 initiated the call asking to purchase some grips.

16 Is that accurate that Mr. Horowitz initiated

17 the call to you?

18 A Yes, I believe that's probably correct.

19 Q Okay. And was the call initially -- did

20 it -- was it based upon Akai's attempt to purchase parts

21 from you?

22 A It would have been, yeah.

23 Q Okay. His next bullet point says, "Cheely

24 said he is refusing to do business with Akai due to

25 dealings with KKM."

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1 Is that statement consistent with the

2 testimony that you gave to Mr. Benford regarding the

3 Cheely Custom Guns' decision not to do further business

4 with Akai?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And that was because you didn't want to sell

7 parts to Akai, have it claimed that they were defective,

8 yet refuse to return them to you?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Okay. The next bullet point on this document

11 says, "He" -- "he" being you -- "is a personal friend of

12 Luke and things that Akai has been unfair to Luke." So

13 let's break that down into its two parts.

14 As of March of 2020, did you consider yourself

15 a personal friend of Luke McIntire?

16 A No.

17 Q Okay. Based upon your conversation with

18 Mr. Benford this morning I understand that you did

19 believe that Akai had been unfair to Luke; is that

20 accurate?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And can -- again, can you explain to me why

23 you believed Akai had been unfair to Luke or to KKM?

24 A Because you should work with the manufacturer

25 if you think you have a defective product. Especially

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1 if he had plenty of defective barrels, I didn't

2 understand why he could not send one or more back to

3 manufacturer for evaluation.

4 Q Okay. Next bullet point on this document it

5 says, "Cheely has had some barrels that tested low, down

6 to 32, has sent them to Luke, they were tested at KKM

7 and some were replaced."

8 So you discussed with Mr. Benford barrels that

9 you had personally tested on the hood of the barrels;

10 correct?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And some of those -- I believe you said two of

13 those barrels tested in the 30s; is that accurate?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And you then returned those barrels to KKM?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Okay. The next sentence here in this bullet

18 point it says, "They were tested at KKM and some were

19 replaced."

20 Do you believe that statement is accurate.

21 A No.

22 Q Why do you believe that statement is

23 inaccurate?

24 A Because the barrels were not replaced. I got

25 the same two barrels back.

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1 Q And you understood they were the same two

2 barrels because they had the dimples or the testing

3 indentations on the hood where you had tested them?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Okay. Do you have any -- well, did you tell

6 Mr. Horowitz that KKM had replaced the barrels you had

7 sent to it for testing?

8 A I do not believe I said that.

9 Q Do you have any reason or any understanding as

10 to why Mr. Horowitz's notes regarding your conversation

11 would say that KKM replaced some of the barrels that you

12 had sent to it for testing?

13 A If I had said anything it would have been, "If

14 they're bad I'm sure KKM would replace them with good

15 barrels."

16 Q Okay. But you did not tell him that KKM did

17 replace your barrels?

18 A No.

19 Q Did you tell him KKM had returned the barrels

20 that you had sent to it for testing?

21 A I don't know if I told him that or not.

22 Q Okay. The next bullet point in this document

23 says, "Cheely was aware that some of the barrels he sent

24 were made of the softer steel and had them replaced." I

25 want to break this down into the two parts. Let's start

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1 with the latter.

2 Again, you didn't tell Mr. Horowitz that KKM

3 replaced any of your barrels, did you?

4 A I don't believe I did, no.

5 Q Okay. And you didn't believe that KKM had

6 replaced any of your barrels, did you?

7 A No.

8 Q Okay. The first part of this sentence says,

9 "Cheely was aware that some of the barrels he sent were

10 made of the softer steel."

11 Is that accurate?

12 A Yes, I believe the barrels were made of a

13 different type or stainless steel, a different, you

14 know, variety of 416R that KKM used that generally was a

15 little bit softer than the other type of 416R that they

16 use.

17 Q And do you know what those types of steel

18 were?

19 A I do not know the technical definition of

20 them, no.

21 Q And when you say "softer," do you know the

22 Rockwell variances for each of the types of steel?

23 A I do not.

24 Q Okay. How did you come to believe that one

25 type of steel was softer than the other?

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1 A I believe that Luke had told me that the one

2 type of steel generally would be slightly softer than

3 the other.

4 Q Did he discuss with you that each type of

5 steel would fall within the tolerances required for

6 competition shooting barrels?

7 MR. FIATO: Objection; form.

8 A I believe so.

9 BY MR. ROBINSON:

10 Q Did you believe that each type of steel --

11 that each type of steel barrel that you required from

12 KKM was suitable for competition shooting?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Did you use barrels manufactured from each

15 type of steel in guns that you manufacture?

16 A I believe, yes.

17 Q Have you ever had any guns returned to you

18 from customers where the return was based upon

19 unsuitable barrels?

20 A No.

21 Q Have you ever had any guns returned to you

22 where a customer claimed that the barrel was too soft?

23 A No.

24 Q Have you ever had a gun returned to you where

25 the customer claimed that the barrel was made out of the

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1 wrong type of steel?

2 A No.

3 Q Have you ever had a customer claim that a gun

4 that you sold to it that the barrel was made out of the

5 wrong grade of steel?

6 A No.

7 Q Okay. The next bullet point in this document

8 says, "Cheely said that since we never sent our barrels

9 to KKM it was unfair."

10 Is that an accurate summary of what you told

11 Mr. Horowitz?

12 A Yeah.

13 Q Okay. The next bullet says, "I explained that

14 we had a large number of guns that needed to be

15 replaced. That the problem is widespread. Luke is well

16 aware of the issue. And Luke never offered to replace

17 the barrels."

18 Do you believe that's an accurate statement of

19 what Mr. Horowitz told you during your discussions?

20 A Probably. I don't recall the conversation

21 specifically.

22 Q Okay. Next bullet says, "Cheely said he is a

23 friend of Luke's, has his personal cell phone number,

24 and feels Luke was mistreated."

25 Is that an accurate statement?

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1 A I have his cell phone number. I don't

2 consider us to be friends.

3 Q Okay. The last bullet here says, "Cheely

4 still refuses to do business with Akai."

5 Is that accurate?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Based on the considerations that we've

8 discussed earlier and the considerations you had

9 discussed with Mr. Benford?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Okay. The plaintiffs have filed a document in

12 this lawsuit, and the document is entitled their first

13 amended complaint. In Paragraph 82 of the plaintiffs'

14 first amended complaint, I'm gonna read to you the

15 allegations they have made.

16 This paragraph says that, "Certain vendors now

17 refuse to conduct business directly with Akai and/or

18 Horowitz as a result of defamatory statements made

19 during various phone calls and in conversations

20 described in Paragraph 81 above."

21 Let me ask you this, sir: Have you refused to

22 do business with Akai or with Shay Horowitz based upon

23 defamatory statements made to you?

24 MR. FIATO: Objection; form.

25 A No.

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1 BY MR. ROBINSON:

2 Q Okay. So with reference to this allegation

3 that the plaintiffs have made, and I know you've

4 described it to us this morning, but please -- please

5 confirm for me, what's the reason why you refuse to do

6 business with Akai or Shay Horowitz at this time?

7 A Because I don't believe he does good business.

8 And I don't want to be falsely accused of something of

9 mine being a poor product by him and then him not

10 working with us at all on that product, that would be

11 the reason I do not want to do business with his company

12 or him.

13 Q And when you say not working with you, what do

14 you mean by that?

15 A By not -- we won't sell him our product.

16 Q But you said your concern was him not working

17 with you if he felt that there was a defective product.

18 What did you mean by that?

19 A Well, I would expect him to return the part

20 for evaluation.

21 Q So the primary reason that you've determined

22 you're not going to do business with Akai or Shay

23 Horowitz is because you're concerned that he would not

24 return parts to you if he claimed a defect; is that

25 accurate?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q Okay. And is -- your decision not to do

3 business with Akai or Mr. Horowitz, is that based upon

4 anything that people have told you, other than that he

5 refused to return barrels to KKM or Shooters Connection?

6 A I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?

7 Q Yep.

8 So in addition to Akai or Mr. Horowitz's

9 refusal to return barrels to KKM or Shooters Connection

10 for inspection, is there anything -- is there any other

11 reason why you have decided not to conduct business

12 with -- with him?

13 A That would be the main reason. The other

14 reason would be, you know, the not-so-good reputation in

15 the industry. And he was constantly not able to pay us.

16 He had to keep using different credit cards and that, so

17 I'd be concerned about the financial aspect of his

18 company and wouldn't want to get caught with, you know,

19 out-of-pocket for product. So we always forced him to

20 pay on a credit card, where most other companies we

21 would put on terms.

22 Q And the reputation in the industry that you

23 just mentioned as one of the basis for not doing

24 business with him, was that a reputation that existed

25 prior to 2019?

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1 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

2 A Yes, it was.

3 BY MR. ROBINSON:

4 Q I want to ask you some questions to see if you

5 have had any problems with KKM barrels in the following

6 ways: Did you -- have you ever purchased a KKM barrel

7 that you believed showed signs of premature or abnormal

8 wear or failure?

9 MR. FIATO: Objection; form.

10 A No.

11 BY MR. ROBINSON:

12 Q Have you ever purchased any KKM barrels that

13 you -- let me rephrase that.

14 Have you ever purchased any KKM barrels that

15 suffered from compacted surfaces?

16 MR. FIATO: Objection to form.

17 A No.

18 BY MR. ROBINSON:

19 Q Have you ever purchased any KKM barrels that

20 suffered from folded metal?

21 A No.

22 Q Have you ever purchased any KKM barrels that

23 had compacted metal on the hood and lugs?

24 A No.

25 Q Have you ever purchased any KKM barrels that

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1 had compacted metal on the lock up surfaces?

2 A No.

3 Q Did you ever purchase any KKM barrels that

4 were so soft as to be flexible and changing in shape and

5 dimension?

6 MR. FIATO: Objection; form.

7 A No.

8 MR. ROBINSON: Give me just a moment here. I

9 want to look back at a couple documents. I'm

10 pretty close to being done with you, sir.

11 Those are all the questions I have for you at

12 this time. Thank you, sir.

13 MR. FIATO: How about we take a five-minute

14 break, let everybody -- does anybody else have any

15 questions?

16 MR. YEE: Either Nicks, do you guys have

17 questions?

18 MR. FIATO: Nick C?

19 MR. CARDAMONE: None from me.

20 MR. FIATO: How about we take a five-minute

21 bathroom break before I begin my questioning?

22 THE WITNESS: That works.

23 THE COURT REPORTER: All right. Going off

24 record.

25 (Recess was taken.)

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1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. FIATO:

3 Q Mr. Cheely, my name is Richard Fiato. I'm an

4 attorney for Akai Custom Guns and Shay Horowitz along

5 with my co-counsel Ed Yee. I will be asking you a

6 series of questions. Just like with the other lawyers,

7 please don't shake your head --

8 MR. FIATO: Did we lose him? Oh, no. He just

9 moved. Sorry about that. Your screen moved.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Give me all verbal answers. Try not to shake

12 your head say "uh-huh, uh-uh," because we need a clear

13 record. And if you don't understand me, let me know,

14 I'll rephrase the question; if you need me to repeat it,

15 I'd be happy to do so.

16 So we talked a little bit about -- in your

17 deposition about your education and your training and

18 your time at the Detroit Diesel.

19 Is that the where you worked, sir?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Okay. And when did you break into the gun

22 industry, start building guns?

23 A Oh, it was around 2004, 2005, probably when I

24 started building my own guns.

25 Q Okay. And did you go to any specific

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1 training? Did you go to gunsmith training or anything

2 like that?

3 A I worked with another gunsmith for a few

4 months to start out.

5 Q And that was back in 2004?

6 A In that time range. I couldn't tell you

7 exactly.

8 Q And were you competing in USPSA at that time,

9 sir?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And were you sponsored by any company or

12 gunsmith or anybody at that time?

13 A At that time, no.

14 Q And this gunsmith that you worked with, was

15 that a Mr. Bedell?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And what was your relationship with Mr. Bedell

18 at that time?

19 A We were friends.

20 Q You were friends.

21 Okay. And so he trained you on how to build

22 1911 and 2011 design guns; is that correct?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Okay. And did you -- you said you spent a

25 couple months with him.

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1 Did you go to live with him? Or how did that

2 work?

3 A No. I took multiple trips to his shop in New

4 York over the course of a few months.

5 Q And did Mr. Bedell build you a gun? What was

6 the reason for you going over there multiple times?

7 A I initially purchased a pistol from him when I

8 started -- or shortly after I started competing in

9 USPSA. That's how I met him.

10 Q Okay. And did you buy it online, or did you

11 go to his facility? I believe it's in New York; is that

12 correct?

13 A It's in New York.

14 I don't recall how the purchase happened.

15 Q Okay. And, then, what was the reason for you

16 to go there to learn how to build 1911 pistols?

17 A It was to learn how to build a pistol. That

18 was the reason.

19 Q And did you have the intention in your mind to

20 begin to manufacture our own pistols after you were

21 trained by Mr. Bedell?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Okay. And did you inform Mr. Bedell as he was

24 training you that that was the reason why you wanted him

25 to train you on how to build 1911 and 2011 style

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1 pistols?

2 A I don't recall.

3 Q Isn't it true, sir, that Mr. Bedell -- well,

4 strike that.

5 After he trained you, did you -- did you

6 obtain an federal firearms license to manufacture

7 pistols?

8 A Sometime after that, yes.

9 Q About how long after that, sir?

10 A I don't know.

11 Q Would it be accurate to say that it was

12 sometime within six months of him training you that you

13 got your license?

14 A No.

15 Q Was it longer or shorter than that?

16 A Longer.

17 Q Was it longer than a year?

18 A Probably.

19 Q And at that time you started to build 1911

20 pistols, did you have any conversations with Mr. Bedell

21 about you going into business?

22 A I don't recall.

23 Q Do you recall whether he was upset with you

24 that you went into business and that you were making

25 guns that looked very similar to his?

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1 A I do recall a conversation where he said I

2 should figure out my own style, yes.

3 Q And when he said you should figure out his own

4 style -- your own style, that was because he was

5 concerned that the guns that you were making were close

6 to his in design and style?

7 A Yes. He thought that everyone should have

8 their own style to stand out.

9 Q So he felt like you were copying his style; is

10 that correct, sir?

11 A Yes.

12 Q When is the first time that you had a

13 conversation with Shay Horowitz? Do you recall?

14 A I have no idea.

15 Q Do you recall ever reaching out to

16 Mr. Horowitz to build him any parts?

17 A We made compensators for him at some point. I

18 don't remember how it came about.

19 Q Do you remember if you ever texted

20 Mr. Horowitz or contacted him asking him if he'd be

21 willing to let you make his compensators because you

22 were trying to get into the building and manufacturing

23 business -- strike that -- you were trying to get into

24 the parts manufacturing business, sir?

25 A Can you say that question a little more --

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1 Q Yes. Absolutely.

2 Do you remember contacting Mr. Horowitz asking

3 him to allow you to build his compensators because you

4 were trying to get into the parts building business?

5 A I don't remember reaching out to him

6 specifically, but we did make compensators for him.

7 Q When? When was that?

8 A I couldn't tell you. I don't know. It

9 probably would have been 10 or 12 years ago.

10 Q If I told you it was probably in August of

11 2012, would that sound about correct?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And did you make those compensators for

14 Mr. Horowitz?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And when you made those compensators for

17 Mr. Horowitz, did he send you a sample of his

18 compensator so you could manufacture his compensators

19 for him?

20 A I don't recall a sample. I believe he sent us

21 a drawing.

22 Q Okay. So he sent you a drawing.

23 Would that drawing have measurements and all

24 the specs so you could make that compensator?

25 A It would have dimensions on it, yes.

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1 Q Okay. And were you making compensators before

2 you were making -- before you made those compensators

3 for Mr. Horowitz?

4 A I believe we were making our own compensators,

5 yes.

6 Q Do you remember whether you were making those

7 compensators before Mr. Horowitz sent you his design, or

8 was it after?

9 A I don't remember.

10 Q You don't remember.

11 Okay. But you eventually made a batch of

12 these compensators for Mr. Horowitz; correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And Mr. Horowitz rejected those compensators,

15 did he not?

16 A Some of them I believe. It was a partial of

17 it, yes, he did.

18 Q And why did he reject those compensators, sir?

19 A He didn't like them. I don't remember exactly

20 why. I just remember that he wanted to send some of

21 them back, and we took them back and refunded his money.

22 Q Do you remember having a conversation

23 with -- strike that.

24 Do you know a Michael Dame?

25 A I do know Michael Dame.

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1 Q How do you know Michael Dame?

2 A I know him from shooting at the range in

3 USPSA.

4 Q At what range?

5 A At multiple ranges shooting USPSA at that

6 time.

7 Q Ranges in Michigan?

8 A Yeah.

9 Q Any other ranges outside of Michigan, did you

10 shoot with him at?

11 A At some point in time I competed in Canada for

12 at least one match. And then I traveled around the

13 country shooting different matches, and I certainly

14 would have seen him at various matches.

15 Q And let me ask you this: How often would you

16 communicate with Mr. Dame prior to October of 2019?

17 A I really don't know.

18 Q Would you communicate with him once a month?

19 A Probably. We would see each other at the

20 range or possibly talk about going to the range or going

21 to matches.

22 Q Would he call you during that --

23 A Not that I recall.

24 Q Would he send you text messages during that

25 period before October 2019?

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1 A Text message or Internet message or something

2 like that, yes.

3 Q And how often would he do that, sir?

4 A Not very often. We don't communicate hardly

5 ever.

6 Q Would it be fair to say, or would you agree

7 with me if I were to say it would probably be several

8 months, if not a year, between communications either by

9 text or over the Internet during that period of time?

10 MR. BENFORD: Objection to form.

11 A You'd have to define the period of time that

12 we're talking about.

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q I'm talking about the period of time prior to

15 October of 2019?

16 A So prior -- just prior that we don't have very

17 much communication. The farther back you go to 2010 and

18 earlier, we probably would have had more communication

19 back then.

20 Q And is that because you were competing

21 together at that time, sir?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Okay. And do you recall if in -- strike that.

24 You produced some materials for us pursuant to

25 a subpoena; correct, sir?

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1 A Yes.

2 MR. FIATO: Filiz?

3 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, sir.

4 MR. FIATO: Is it possible for us to put up a

5 document, share a document on the screen? Do we

6 have that control?

7 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, you can. I enabled

8 it.

9 MR. FIATO: Perfect. Let me get there.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Sir, can you see the document that I have up

12 on the screen?

13 A I can.

14 Q You can?

15 A Yep.

16 Q Okay. And you see on the upper right-hand

17 corner it says, "2-10-20 Dame 1.JPG?"

18 A I cannot see that part of it, no.

19 Q Can you see on the top right-hand corner it

20 says, "Dame Michael?"

21 A No. The top thing I see says Dame Michael on

22 the left.

23 Q Oh, I'm sorry. Did I say right?

24 A Yep.

25 Q It was my military left, not my military

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1 right.

2 So you see it says "Dame Michael" on top hand

3 corner; correct, sir?

4 A Yep.

5 Q And this is a document you produced pursuant

6 to a subpoena from my office to you?

7 A I believe so.

8 Q Okay. And it's dated February 10th, appears

9 to be 2020 at 7:09 p.m.; correct, sir?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And you see this little icon there what I will

12 describe -- or an avatar, I should say, and I'll

13 describe it as -- it shows the world and it looks like

14 there's a fire coming off the world; is that --

15 A Okay. It's kind of blue with a little orange

16 on the top?

17 Q Right.

18 Okay. And that avatar would be Mr. Dame

19 speaking; correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And the blue would be you speaking; is that

22 correct?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Okay. And I'll read from the begin of the

25 page. Mr. Dame sends a message to you on February 10th,

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1 2020 at 7:09 p.m., "If you don't mind indulging my

2 curiosity, what was comp thing with you and Shay? Did

3 he rip off your design or accuse you of stealing his?

4 Also, buy a shirt. It's not me. I don't know who, but

5 love it."

6 And then respond -- can you read your

7 response, sir?

8 A "After I got my first machine, I offered to

9 make comps for him, trying to get into the parts

10 manufacturing business and all. I didn't do the best

11 job, gave him his money back, he proceeded to rip me up

12 on the internet and accuse me of trying to steal his

13 design because he sent me the dimensions so I could make

14 it for him. And that's after he BSed me with a super

15 cheap price on the comps, which I matched because I was

16 a newbie."

17 Q It says "noob;" right, N-o-o-b, not newbie?

18 A Well, that's how I would pronounce noo --

19 n-o-o-b, noob.

20 Q Very good.

21 And so he says, "Also, buy a shirt. It's not

22 me."

23 Do you know what he's referring to there?

24 A I do not. It was something that was going on

25 online probably, but I really could not tell you.

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1 Q Okay. Fair enough.

2 And so you indicate here that you didn't do a

3 very good job on the comp so you had to give

4 Mr. Horowitz his money back; is that correct?

5 A Yeah, I gave him his money back 'cause he

6 didn't want them, didn't like them.

7 Q And what about them didn't he like?

8 A I don't recall.

9 Q What about them did you not do a very -- you

10 didn't do the best job as you say? What didn't you do

11 if you recall?

12 A They wouldn't have been the best made. I was

13 new. I didn't have the capability of making the best

14 parts in the business at the time. I didn't do a good

15 job and he didn't like them so I gave him his money

16 back.

17 MR. FIATO: Okay. So bear with me,

18 Mr. Cheely. We're gonna go back and forth through

19 various exhibits, and we have to locate them and

20 bring them up for you.

21 BY MR. FIATO:

22 Q Can you see this picture on the screen, sir?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And is it this -- describe what you see there?

25 A It look like an Akai comp.

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1 Q And was this the Akai comp that you

2 manufactured for Mr. Akai back in 2012?

3 A It looks similar. I couldn't be positive.

4 Q You don't have any reason to believe that it

5 isn't?

6 A No. I cannot remember specifically exactly

7 what it looked like from ten years ago.

8 Q And do you recognize this photo, sir?

9 A Yeah. That's one of our compensators.

10 Q And do you know when you came out with that

11 compensator, sir?

12 A I do not.

13 Q And do you remember at the Mr. Horowitz

14 objecting because he sent you the plan for his

15 compensators and then shortly thereafter you came out

16 with his compensator?

17 A I do remember him saying that he thought had

18 that we stole his design, even though in my opinion this

19 doesn't look like the other comp at all.

20 Q You don't think it looks like his comp in any

21 way, do you?

22 A Other than it's a compensator, no. The

23 theories behind how they work are different.

24 Q Do they have the same number of holes in the

25 compensator, do they not?

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1 A They do.

2 Q They have the same holes and the same sides of

3 the compensators, don't they?

4 A Kind of. All compensators have holes and

5 basically those kind of sides.

6 Q There are compensators that have holes in

7 different locations than the holes in your compensators

8 here and Mr. Horowitz's compensator; correct?

9 A Yes. There are lots of different compensator

10 designs.

11 Q And do you know how long Mr. Horowitz had been

12 using the Akai design compensator before you started

13 manufacturing -- I'm sorry -- before you made the batch

14 of compensators he rejected; sir?

15 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

16 Go ahead and answer.

17 A I do not know.

18 MR. FIATO: Bear with me for one second, sir.

19 BY MR. FIATO:

20 Q You testified earlier that Mr. Horowitz went

21 on the Internet and bashed you because he felt that you

22 were copying his compensator design; correct?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And is -- when you say he went on the

25 Internet, are you referring to the Facebook, sir?

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1 A Not specifically. It would have been also

2 possibly on Brian Enos forums. I cannot remember

3 specifically.

4 Q Do you remember that he went on Facebook and

5 posted a post saying, "Imitation is the sincerest form

6 of flattery. Pffft, whoever said that;" and then there

7 was conversation based on -- that followed this post

8 about a manufacturer who made comps for Mr. Horowitz now

9 claiming that they researched and developed that comp,

10 made some minor changes, but came out with it right

11 after him?

12 Do you remember hearing any of that?

13 A I remember hearing it. I don't remember

14 seeing it.

15 Q Did -- so you never went on the Internet to

16 read it or to refute it; is that correct, sir?

17 A I don't recall.

18 Q Okay. But it's your testimony here today that

19 you didn't use Mr. Horowitz' design in developing your

20 comp; correct?

21 MR. BENFORD: Objection to form.

22 Go ahead and answer.

23 A I did not use his design to influence my

24 design.

25 BY MR. FIATO:

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1 Q How did you come up with your compensator,

2 sir?

3 A I actually based it off the Bedell Custom

4 compensator and made some changes to that, that's what

5 my compensator is based off of.

6 Q So you're saying that you copied Mr. Bedell's

7 compensator not Mr. Horowitz' compensator?

8 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

9 Go ahead and answer.

10 A I used it as the basis of my design. It is

11 different than the Bedell compensator.

12 BY MR. FIATO:

13 Q How is it different?

14 A It has a different number of ports, and the

15 ports are larger than the Bedell compensator.

16 Q But it has the same number of ports as the

17 Akai compensator, doesn't it?

18 A It does.

19 Q And to the lay person if they look at that

20 compensator, it would look the same, wouldn't it?

21 MR. ROBINSON: Object the form.

22 MR. BENFORD: Join.

23 A No, I would not think so.

24 BY MR. FIATO:

25 Q So you don't think it looks the same?

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1 A No.

2 Q So if other people say that it looks the same,

3 you would disagree with that?

4 A I would.

5 Q And why would you disagree with it?

6 A The port design is different, the number of

7 ports is a very small factor in the design of how the

8 compensator works. The way that it -- you would have a

9 theory behind how it works, and that would be the size

10 of the ports, the order of the size, if the bigger one

11 comes first after the small one or after -- you know, a

12 smaller one comes after, and the size of the different

13 ports and all that is the way that they would

14 be -- the theory behind how it works.

15 Q That wasn't my question. I originally said

16 that the lay person looking at those two comps would

17 think that they were substantially similar to each

18 other, would you agree with that?

19 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

20 MR. ROBINSON: Form.

21 A No, I wouldn't agree with that.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q So you're saying that somebody that looks at

24 that, that isn't in the gun industry, doesn't know how

25 comps work, wouldn't say that they look anything alike,

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1 is that your testimony here today, sir?

2 MR. ROBINSON: Objection; asked and answered

3 several times.

4 BY MR. FIATO:

5 Q You can answer now.

6 A Somebody that didn't know anything about comps

7 would think that any comps would look similar to each

8 other.

9 Q You thee this photo, sir?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Can you describe for me what's in this photo,

12 sir?

13 A It appears to be two Bedell compensators.

14 Q So is it your testimony that a lay person

15 looking at that compensator and then looking at your

16 compensator and the Akai compensator would say that they

17 all look alike?

18 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

19 MR. BENFORD: Join.

20 A I would say that they would all say they look

21 similar, yes.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q So a lay person wouldn't know that there are

24 three ports on each side of this compensator and there

25 are only two on the others, they wouldn't be able to

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1 distinguish that difference?

2 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

3 MR. BENFORD: Join.

4 A I'm sure they could distinguish that

5 difference.

6 BY MR. FIATO:

7 Q Okay. And would they be able to distinguish

8 the difference of how the ports on the end of the

9 compensator were arranged in relation to the Akai comp

10 and to your comp, sir?

11 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

12 MR. BENFORD: Join.

13 A I'm sure they could look at it and tell that

14 there was a difference, yes.

15 BY MR. FIATO:

16 Q Okay. So if they look at this comp compared

17 to those other two comps, your comp and the Akai comp,

18 they're gonna see that they're different?

19 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

20 MR. BENFORD: Join.4?

21 A I'm not sure I understand the question.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q A lay person would be able to notice the

24 differences between your comp and a Bedell comp?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q A lay person -- would a lay person be able to

2 know the difference between your comp and Akai comp?

3 A Yes.

4 Q How?

5 A The front port --

6 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

7 MR. BENFORD: Join.

8 A The front port on the Akai comp is of a

9 significantly different design than the Bedell comp or

10 my comp.

11 BY MR. FIATO:

12 Q How is it different?

13 A The shape is significantly different, it's cut

14 much higher up on the top of the compensator.

15 Q I'm going back to that Facebook post that we

16 did earlier, sir.

17 MR. FIATO: Actually, give me one moment.

18 Okay. Going back, we want to mark exhibits.

19 So there was a -- the production -- the Dame

20 communication that you produced pursuant to

21 subpoena, we'd like to mark that as Exhibit 1.

22 Are there any objections from counsel?

23 MR. BENFORD: I'm sorry, as to what? As to

24 marking an exhibit?

25 MR. FIATO: Marking it as Exhibit 1. As I had

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1 referred -- I went back and I questioned him about

2 his communication with Dame with regard to the

3 compensator that he produced for Akai, but we never

4 marked it as an exhibit.

5 MR. BENFORD: No objection to marking an

6 exhibit.

7 MR. FIATO: So the picture of the Akai comp

8 we'd like to mark as Exhibit 2. The picture of

9 Cheely Gunworks compensator we'd like to mark as

10 Exhibit 3. The Facebook post that is on the screen

11 now we'd like to mark as Exhibit 4. And the Bedell

12 comp we'd like to mark as Exhibit 5.

13 And we'll provide these to Madam Court

14 Reporter at the end.

15 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Nos. 1 through 5 were marked

16 for identification.)

17 BY MR. FIATO:

18 Q Mr. Cheely, going back to this Facebook post,

19 the second post down, do you see that post, sir?

20 A Yes. It's really small.

21 Q Do we need to make it larger for you?

22 A Yeah. It's really small. That's better.

23 Q That post is by it says that Shay Akai;

24 correct?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q Do you understand that to be Shay Horowitz?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Mr. Horowitz' posts -- and he's the original

4 author on that Facebook post; correct, sir at the top?

5 A Yes.

6 Q This is dated December 6th, 2012?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Okay. And I'm gonna read his second post down

9 that he made -- that is made by Mr. Horowitz, correct me

10 if I'm wrong, "Sent a drawing of our compensator to a

11 machine shop to manufacture for us. Next thing I know

12 they have a very similar compensator claiming it as

13 their own. I guess they should have been flattered that

14 they now call it the flattest shooting comp they have

15 ever tried."

16 Do you see that, sir? Did I read that

17 correctly?

18 A I believe so.

19 Q Okay. And do you understand that as

20 Mr. Horowitz referring to you as the machine shop?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And at that time, were you doing business

23 under Cheely Custom Gunworks?

24 A Yes.

25 Q I'm gonna go down to the fourth post.

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1 Do you see where it's made by Mr. Chuck

2 Bradley?

3 A Yes.

4 Q I'm gonna read what Mr. Bradley had to say.

5 He said, "This industry is full of it, Shay. Some

6 people can only copy the work of others, and the bad

7 part of it is, many times that copy get" -- he says

8 "mad," I assume it's made -- "mad at those that copy

9 from them also" -- he did say mad so let me re-read that

10 -- "some people can only copy the work of others, and

11 the bad part is, many times that copy get mad at those

12 that copy from them also. I have been copied to the

13 point others claim it was their design. Most people

14 don't care either. Ask anybody using a Midway knock off

15 of my bag, they don't care if it will fall apart in a

16 few months of use or if was a stolen design as long as

17 it was cheaper. They end up with our bag eventually

18 after they learn the hard way. This industry a tough

19 with everybody trying to find a way to cut into somebody

20 else's pieces of the pie."

21 Do you see that, sir?

22 A Yes.

23 Q So Mr. Bradley is seemingly sympathetic with

24 Mr. Horowitz' claim that your shop took his design;

25 correct?

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1 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

2 MR. BENFORD: Form.

3 A I wouldn't say that.

4 BY MR. FIATO:

5 Q What would you say?

6 A I'd say that farther down that post he agrees

7 that the comps are different.

8 Q Where did he agree?

9 A Do you want to scroll down a little further?

10 You want to check out that next post? It says he

11 compared them and they're different.

12 Q He said, "I just compared the two. They are

13 pretty different. STI had their T1 comp from a long

14 time as well, at least in that is the two "-- excuse

15 me -- "at least in that it has two top ports and two

16 side ports, both the other parts just changed the

17 dimensions of those," and then you can't read it

18 anymore; correct?

19 A Yep.

20 Q Do you see there where there are other people

21 that seem to agree with Mr. Horowitz, that you're comp

22 looks pretty similar; correct?

23 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

24 MR. BENFORD: Form.

25 A Do you have a specific thing for me to comment

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1 on? I don't understand.

2 BY MR. FIATO:

3 Q Sure.

4 Dan Mitchell says, "Imitation happens when

5 someone has to creativity or talent. It is not

6 flattery."

7 A I don't know that he's speaking about me with

8 that.

9 Q He's speaking about the comp design, is he

10 not?

11 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

12 MR. BENFORD: Form.

13 A He could be. It's just a statement.

14 BY MR. FIATO:

15 Q Okay. Isn't it true, sir, you have a

16 reputation of copying the design of other manufacturers

17 to build your products?

18 A I wouldn't say that.

19 Q No?

20 You make grips, do you not, sir?

21 A I do.

22 Q Grips for 2011s?

23 A Yes.

24 Q How did you come up with the design for the

25 2011 grip that you produce?

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1 A We didn't come up with the design. It was a

2 patent that expired.

3 Q What patent expired?

4 A The STI patent on the split frame design.

5 Q Isn't true, sir, that you purchased an

6 Infinity grip -- a grip made by a company called

7 Infinity and based your grip off of that design, sir?

8 A I've purchased those grips, and I would have

9 consulted that grip during our design process.

10 Q Did you take measurements from that grip?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And you used that -- did you 3D print that

13 grip?

14 A No.

15 Q Did you use those dimensions in your product,

16 sir?

17 A Some of them would be in our product, yes.

18 MR. FIATO: Okay. Let's mark this as

19 Exhibit 6, please.

20 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 6 was marked for

21 identification.)

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q Mr. Cheely, what -- can you describe for me

24 what this is a picture of?

25 A Appears to be an Infinity grip.

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1 Q And is -- did you use this grip in the product

2 development of your grip, sir?

3 A Yes.

4 MR. FIATO: Please mark this as Exhibit 7.

5 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 7 was marked for

6 identification.)

7 BY MR. FIATO:

8 Q Mr. Cheely, tell me what this is.

9 A That's one of our grips for a 2011 Bristol.

10 Q Okay. And this grip isn't based on the STI

11 design, is it?

12 A Yes, it is based on the STI 2011 pattern.

13 Q Is it based on the SV -- let me rephrase that.

14 This grip isn't based on the grip produced by

15 STI, is it?

16 A It is based on the STI grip, yes.

17 Q Is it based on the SV grip?

18 A In part, yes.

19 Q And did you use the SV grip in coming up with

20 this design?

21 A You'd have to define that a little bit better.

22 Q Did you consult the SV grip in making your

23 Cheely grip, sir?

24 A Yes.

25 Q And do you have a reputation of copying the SV

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1 grip in making your grip, sir, in the gun industry?

2 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

3 A No.

4 BY MR. FIATO:

5 Q Nobody has that opinion of you that you know

6 of, sir?

7 A I don't think that's a widespread opinion of

8 it, no.

9 Q Do you think there is an opinion of it, sir?

10 A Certainly there's always an opinion of that.

11 Q Okay. Cheely Custom Gunworks makes magazine

12 wells, do they not?

13 A Say that again. Sorry.

14 Q Cheely Custom Guns produces magazine wells?

15 A Magwells, yes.

16 Q Yes.

17 And the magwells can be made of all metal;

18 correct?

19 A They're made of various different metals. And

20 there's ones that are made of polymer as well.

21 Q Okay. And are there some that have inserts

22 that are made of polymer and the body of the magwell is

23 made of either aluminum or steel or some other metal?

24 A Yes.

25 Q And is that called a Delrin Inserts?

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1 A They're often made out of the delrin, yes.

2 Q It's Delrin; right?

3 A That's a tradename, yes.

4 Q Okay. And whose tradename is that?

5 A Whatever company came up with that type of

6 plastic.

7 Q Okay. So Delrin refers to the material?

8 A Yes.

9 MR. FIATO: Okay. We're gonna mark this

10 picture as Exhibit 8.

11 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 8 was marked for

12 identification.)

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q Mr. Cheely, can you tell me what you see here?

15 A It says it's a magwell insert Ice by Dawson.

16 Q Dawson Precision?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And what is Dawson Precision, sir?

19 A It's another firearm company.

20 Q Okay. And this magwell insert, do you know

21 how it works?

22 A Yes. It goes inside of another part that

23 attaches to the pistol.

24 Q Okay. And that's to make magazine insertion

25 easier and quicker; is that correct, sir?

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1 A It's to allow more margin for error, I would

2 say.

3 Q And this is made of the Delrin we spoke about

4 earlier; correct?

5 A I assume so. I don't know.

6 Q Okay. You don't know what material this is

7 made from?

8 A I don't know if it's Delrin or any other kind

9 of plastic -- or what other kind of plastic it is. I

10 believe it's some type of plastic.

11 Q Okay. So it's a form of plastic, then?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Is it replaceable?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And do you know, did Dawson Precision come up

16 with the concept to use a plastic insert in a magazine

17 well that was replaceable?

18 A I believe they came up with it, yes.

19 MR. FIATO: Okay. We're gonna mark this as

20 Exhibit 9.

21 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 9 was marked for

22 identification.)

23 BY MR. FIATO:

24 Q Mr. Cheely, can you tell me what this is, sir?

25 A Appears to be one of our magwell inserts.

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1 Q Okay. And what is this material -- this

2 magwell made of, sir?

3 A It's called acetal.

4 Q Can you explain for me, sir?

5 A It's a type of plastic.

6 Q Okay. So both the Dawson Precision magazine

7 insert and the Cheely insert are various forms of

8 plastic; correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Do you know, did Dawson Precision produce a

11 magazine insert that we showed you in Exhibit 8 before

12 Cheely Custom Guns came out with its magazine insert

13 depicted in Exhibit 9?

14 A Yes. I believe that came out in the 2000s.

15 Q When you say 2000s, you mean, like, early

16 2000s or --

17 A Yeah. It was at least the early 2000s. I had

18 one of those on my pistol -- the first pistol I ever

19 bought in 2002 time frame.

20 Q Okay. And when did Cheely Custom Guns come

21 out with its magwell insert?

22 A This magwell insert came out maybe

23 three -- three years ago, four years ago.

24 Q And when Cheely Custom Guns came out with its

25 magwell insert, did anyone from Dawson Precision contact

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1 Cheely Custom Guns and object that it was a copy of

2 theirs?

3 A No.

4 Q They never objected?

5 A I don't -- they never objected to me.

6 Q Did you ever enter in a licensing agreement

7 with Dawson Precision as a result of a compromise of

8 their objection that your magwell was substantially

9 similar to theirs?

10 A No.

11 Q That never happened?

12 A No.

13 Q So if somebody testified that it did, from

14 Dawson Precision, they would be lying?

15 MR. BENFORD: Form.

16 A There was never any licensing agreement for

17 any of the products I've made.

18 BY MR. FIATO:

19 Q Did they ever contact you about this insert,

20 sir?

21 A Not that I recall.

22 Q So if somebody from Dawson Precision said that

23 they contacted you and they objected, then they would be

24 lying; right, sir?

25 A That would be my interpretation.

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1 Q That's not an interpretation.

2 I'm asking you as a matter of fact, if

3 somebody from Dawson Precision says that they contacted

4 you and objected that your magwell was a copy of theirs,

5 they would be lying as a factual matter?

6 MR. BENFORD: Form.

7 A Yes.

8 BY MR. FIATO:

9 Q So you were never contacted; correct?

10 MR. BENFORD: Form.

11 A I never recall being contacted by Dawson

12 Precision, no.

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q You're saying you didn't recall.

15 I'm asking you if they did or didn't?

16 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form; asked and

17 answered several times.

18 MR. BENFORD: Form.

19 A I don't recall anybody from Dawson Precision

20 contacting me about that magwell design.

21 BY MR. FIATO:

22 Q You testified earlier that at some point in

23 2019 you were contacted by Mr. Horowitz about his

24 concerns that he purchased barrels -- KKM barrels that

25 were soft; correct, sir?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q And did he ever email you or text you or

3 anything in regard to his concerns about KKM barrels?

4 A Yes.

5 Q He did text you?

6 A I believe there was texts or messages in

7 Instagram or various means of communication in addition

8 to the phone calls, yes.

9 Q Okay. And we produced -- I'm sorry -- we

10 subpoenaed you.

11 Did you produce any of those messages in

12 response to our --

13 A I produced --

14 Q Excuse me, sir. Let me -- I don't mean to cut

15 you off, I just want to get my question out clearly so

16 there's a clear record.

17 In response to our subpoena to you, did you

18 produce these communications?

19 A I produced the communications I had

20 available -- or had ability to get, yes.

21 Q But specifically in regard to the

22 communications that you're saying, the Instagram or the

23 other communications of various forms about the KKM

24 barrels, did you produce those?

25 A The ones that I had access to, yes, I did.

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1 Q So if I were to tell you that I've reviewed

2 your production and I haven't seen anything with regard

3 to KKM barrels produced by you, is it your testimony

4 that you didn't have access to them so you didn't

5 produce them?

6 A That be correct. There were text messages

7 that I no longer had access to because they were on an

8 old phone that I replaced and no longer have.

9 Q And these were text messages between you and

10 Mr. Horowitz?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And do you remember what those text

13 messages -- what was said in those text messages?

14 A Not specifically. Lots of things were said,

15 general talk about business and different things, and a

16 portion of that would have been about KKM -- his issues

17 with KKM.

18 Q Okay. And do you know when those

19 communications would have been?

20 A I don't know exactly. It would have been

21 in -- late 2019 and 2020.

22 Q Okay. And in late '19, I think you already

23 testified that you were -- that you sold KKM barrels;

24 correct?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q When did you start carrying KKM barrels?

2 A I've used them for many years, but we started

3 actually having them for sale on the website around five

4 years ago.

5 Q Okay. And in 2019, you were selling KKM

6 barrels; correct?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And were you selling any other barrels in 2019

9 made by any other manufacturer or just KKM?

10 A It would have just been KKM. If we sold

11 anything else it would have been old stock that happened

12 to be in the shop, but I cannot recall specifically.

13 Q So by 2019 you were an exclusive you were

14 exclusively selling only KKM barrels on the Cheely

15 Custom Guns website; is that correct, sir?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Okay. Mr. Cheely, there is a picture we put

18 up, we're gonna mark it as Exhibit 10.

19 Can you describe that picture for me?

20 A It's a post from my company, Facebook page,

21 about a KKM barrel.

22 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 10 was marked for

23 identification.)

24 BY MR. FIATO:

25 Q Can you read the post, sir?

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1 A It says, "Looking for a barrel for your next

2 pistol build? We've got you covered. Including a few

3 special spiral fluted barrels in stock," and then the

4 link to the website.

5 Q Do you currently sell these barrels on your

6 website, sir?

7 A KKM barrels?

8 Q No, sir. These special fluted barrels.

9 A I don't have any of those left. No, we don't

10 currently sell those.

11 Q Okay. And did they come from the factory,

12 from KKM, fluted, or did you have to have them fluted

13 yourself?

14 A No. We had those fluted.

15 Q Okay. And who did the fluting?

16 A I can't remember the name of the company right

17 now. It was in Clinton, Michigan. I can't remember the

18 name of the company.

19 Q And so what -- can you describe the process of

20 fluting the -- strike that.

21 First of all, fluting the barrel requires you

22 to modify the barrel; correct?

23 A That correct.

24 Q And you're removing material from a standard

25 diameter barrel; correct?

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1 A We're removing material from a bull barrel,

2 which is thicker than what you would call a standard

3 barrel, which would be much thinner to start with.

4 Q Okay. You wouldn't reduce -- when you flute

5 this barrel, you wouldn't reduce it down past the

6 diameter of a standard sized barrel; correct?

7 A Correct.

8 Q Okay. And did you ever have any problems with

9 any of these barrels?

10 A No.

11 Q Okay. And did you do the threating on the end

12 of the barrels, or was that done by this company that

13 did the fluting?

14 A No. That's the threats from KKM.

15 Q Okay. So that's the standard from KKM.

16 So the modifications that you had done to the

17 barrel were the flutes, which didn't take more material

18 than would have been to reduce it -- let me restate

19 that.

20 The modifications with the fluting, that

21 didn't take more material away from the barrel to reduce

22 it beyond the diameter of a standard 1911 barrel;

23 correct?

24 A Than a bushing barrel. There is much -- yeah,

25 there's not as much material coming off as you would get

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1 down for the diameter of a bushing barrel. I believe

2 there's about 60,000 in depth in those flutes at the

3 front.

4 Q Okay. And that was gonna be my next question.

5 And so the record is clear, there are

6 different types of the 1911 barrels?

7 A Many different types, yes.

8 Q Okay. And a bull barrel would be a thicker

9 barrel, it would have thicker barrel than a bushing

10 barrel would have; correct?

11 A Correct.

12 Q And what's the reason for a bull barrel to

13 have a thicker material?

14 A You eliminates the bushing on the end of the

15 barrel. It eliminates another portion that can cause

16 movement and cause a decrease in accuracy.

17 Q Okay. And a bull barrel is heavier than a

18 bushing barrel?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And then it would be less felt recoil in a

21 bull barrel; is that correct?

22 A Little bit, yes.

23 Q Okay. Mr. Cheely I'm gonna hark this

24 Exhibit 11.

25 Can you describe what the picture is, please?

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1 A That's a post of one of the guns that I built

2 with a KKM barrel in it.

3 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 11 was marked for

4 identification.)

5 BY MR. FIATO:

6 Q And what kind of barrel -- what kind of KKM

7 barrel is that?

8 A We would call it a hybrid barrel that has the

9 rib on the front so the front side is mounted to the

10 barrel rather than to the slide.

11 Q Okay. And do you sell these hybrid barrels on

12 your website at Cheely Custom Gunworks, sir?

13 A I do not.

14 Q Do you know that this hybrid barrel one an

15 exclusive barrel from SCI; correct, sir?

16 A Say that again. Sorry.

17 Q This barrel is exclusively sold by Shooters

18 Connection, do you know whether that is true or not,

19 sir?

20 A I believe that to be the case, yes.

21 Q Okay. And so you testified that you are a KKM

22 dealer and exclusively sell KKM barrels on your website;

23 correct?

24 A At this time, yes.

25 Q At the time.

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1 Okay. And you stopped selling any other

2 barrels other than KKM sometime in 2019; correct?

3 A No. It would have been sometime in the past.

4 By 2019 I think the only barrels I was ordering was KKM.

5 Q Okay. And that's what I was trying to get at.

6 In 2019 you were only ordering KKM barrels,

7 and that's all that you order currently; correct?

8 A Correct.

9 Q And you sell various different gun parts for

10 1911s and 2011s; correct, sir?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Do you know how many?

13 A How many parts?

14 Q Yes, sir.

15 A By number, no. By dollar amount --

16 Q No. No. By number.

17 So, in other words, do you -- let me rephrase

18 because I think there's a disconnect there.

19 How many different types of parts does Cheely

20 Custom Gunworks manufacture?

21 A A lot.

22 Q Seventeen, twenty, twenty-five?

23 A All the different SKUs probably put it at a

24 hundred, maybe.

25 Q Okay. And do you sell any of those parts

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1 through Shooters Connection?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Okay. And how long have you been shooting

4 parts through Shooters Connection?

5 A For many years. Probably ten years. I would

6 have to guess ten years.

7 Q Okay. And you know Chuck Bradley; correct,

8 sir?

9 A I do.

10 Q And who is Chuck Bradley?

11 A The owner of the Shooters Connection.

12 Q And are you friends with Chuck Bradley, sir?

13 A No.

14 Q You would not consider Mr. Bradley a friend of

15 yours?

16 A No. I would consider him to be a business

17 associate.

18 Q Okay. And a business associate that you've

19 done business with for many years?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Currently --

22 MR. FIATO: Hold on a second.

23 BY MR. FIATO:

24 Q Do you know how many as in -- in terms of

25 revenue, how many parts you sell through Shooters

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1 Connection in -- let's say, in 2019?

2 A If I had to guess it would probably be around

3 a $100,000, maybe a little over or under that.

4 Q How about 2020?

5 A Around the same.

6 Q Okay. In 2021?

7 A Around the same.

8 Q And in 2022?

9 A I'd have to look at my records.

10 Q Substantially the same amount?

11 A In the same range.

12 Q Okay. And if you lost the Shooters Connection

13 account where you couldn't sell products on your

14 Shooters Connection, that would be a pretty good hit to

15 revenue, would it not?

16 A Not really. They do maybe 10 percent out of

17 the business that we do.

18 Q So you'd lose 10 percent?

19 A Maybe 10 percent.

20 Q And on an annual basis for 2020, for example,

21 how much in sales would you earn from the sale of KKM

22 barrels?

23 A Oh, you want me a do a little bit of math

24 here?

25 Q If it doesn't take too long, I don't mind.

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1 A Maybe I would have made $5,000.

2 Q Okay. So when you had this first conversation

3 with Mr. Horowitz and his concerns about KKM barrels he

4 had being soft, you tested those two barrels; correct,

5 sir?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And on those two barrels you received ratings

8 in the 30s; correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Did you record that anywhere?

11 A Only what I would have typed in a text to

12 Mr. Horowitz.

13 Q Okay. And did you send an email to Mr. Luke

14 McIntire at KKM Precision asking him to look at those

15 barrels?

16 A No. I believe I called him about it first.

17 Q And then subsequent to that did you send him

18 an email?

19 A I believe I sent him an email asking if he got

20 them, yes.

21 Q Okay.Mr. Cheely, I'm gonna show you

22 Exhibit 12.

23 This is an email you produced pursuant to the

24 subpoena; correct?

25 A Yes.

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1 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 12 was marked for

2 identification.)

3 BY MR. FIATO:

4 Q And this is an email from you to Luke

5 McIntire; correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And can you read it, please, sir?

8 A It says, "Luke, did you get a chance to look

9 at the two barrels I sent you last week? Just wondering

10 what they came in at on your tester."

11 Q And I think you testified earlier that

12 Mr. McIntire did eventually tell you that he tested your

13 barrels; correct? And he presented you a printout of

14 the results that -- strike that.

15 He presented you a printout of results that he

16 claimed were from the tests from your barrel; correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Okay. And did he send you any pictures of the

19 testing of those two barrels, sir?

20 A Yes, he did.

21 Q And do you have those pictures?

22 A No. They would have been on my old phone.

23 Q So tell me what was in those pictures.

24 A It was a text message I believe, and it was a

25 picture of the barrel being held by his testing machine

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1 when he was explaining to me how I should hold the

2 barrel to test it properly.

3 Q And do you know, these two barrels, did you

4 buy these from KKM directly or were they purchased from

5 SCI?

6 A Purchased from STI?

7 Q SCI. I'm sorry. Let me -- if I say "SCI" I'm

8 referring to -- and the parties have done this, and I

9 should have been clear earlier on -- Shooters

10 Connection, Incorporated. So when we say "SCI," not

11 STI, the new Staccato -- it's a company called Staccato

12 or STI, I'm referring to Shooters Connection. And I'll

13 try to refrain from that.

14 So do you know whether those two barrels that

15 KKM tested for you were purchased directly from KKM or

16 whether they were purchased from Shooters Connection?

17 A I do not know.

18 MR. BENFORD: Object to form.

19 BY MR. FIATO:

20 Q And the barrels weren't marked with any serial

21 numbers or markings that would let you know who you

22 bought them from; is that correct?

23 A Correct.

24 Q Okay. And you didn't segregate barrels into

25 any bins or in any other fashion when you received

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1 barrels from either KKM or SCI so that you knew who you

2 bought them from; correct?

3 A The only difference in the barrels would at

4 some point have been -- the engraving would have been

5 different on barrels that we ordered directly from KKM.

6 Q How was the engraving different? Please

7 explain for me, sir.

8 A They had moved the engraving on the barrel

9 that said KKM Precision from the top of the barrel

10 around the corner to the other side of the barrel so the

11 name was not visible when the pistol was assembled.

12 We had requested that of them at some point

13 and it was special, and then I think at some point they

14 switched to that as standard, but I don't know any time

15 table stuff.

16 Q Okay. So you don't know if the barrels that

17 you sent to him -- I'm sorry -- that you sent to Luke

18 for testing had the special engraving on it or not; is

19 that correct?

20 A Yeah. I do not recall.

21 Q Okay. That's fair.

22 I think you testified earlier that you either

23 reused those barrels in making a gun or you sold them to

24 the public; is that correct?

25 A Yes, that's correct.

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1 Q And I think you said you cleaned up the

2 finish.

3 A Yes. So they would have been polished a

4 little bit on the side of the foot, because the surface

5 finish of the steel affects the hardness reading. So

6 they had been polished up a little bit and then hardness

7 tested. And we cleaned that up and blasted them so they

8 would have a factory appearance finish prior to use or

9 sale.

10 Q So on the foot you're talking about the lower

11 lugs?

12 A Yeah. You would call the entire portion of

13 the barrel that hangs down from the round part the foot,

14 and the lower lugs would be on the bottom of the foot.

15 Q And that's -- and the testing, when KKM -- I

16 think you testified earlier that KKM did five tests on

17 the lower foot.

18 That would have been on the lower lugs where

19 it was solid metal; correct?

20 A Correct.

21 Q Okay. And there would have been indentations

22 into that area where the testing was done; correct?

23 A Correct.

24 Q Okay. So how did you get rid of those

25 indentations?

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1 A We didn't get rid of them completely, we just

2 cleaned up where the -- the material comes up a little

3 bit when you put the indentation in, so we sanded it

4 flat, re-blasted it, and then used them or put them back

5 up for sale.

6 Q And how did you refinish the barrel -- I think

7 you testified that you tested on the hood.

8 So the barrel was standing up and you tested

9 on the hood; is that correct?

10 A Correct.

11 Q And then you tested on the -- with the barrel

12 inverted the other way, so the muzzle end of the barrel

13 you tested on the top of the barrel there as well;

14 correct?

15 A No, I never tested on the muzzle end of the

16 barrel.

17 Q Okay. So you just tested on the -- on the

18 hood?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And how did you get rid of that indentation on

21 the hood?

22 A We leave that indentation there. It would be

23 cut off during fitting.

24 Q Okay. If you recall, what is the lowest

25 Rockwell hardness you recorded when you tested those two

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1 barrels?

2 A I don't recall specifically. I heard somebody

3 today say 32. It could have been in that range. It

4 would have been at least mid 30s.

5 Q Okay. When you originally tested these

6 barrels and you got the reading in the 30s, you called

7 KKM; correct?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And you spoke with Luke McIntire?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Anybody else?

12 A Not unless they just answered the phone and

13 handed me off.

14 Q So you didn't speak to anybody else about the

15 issue with the barrels other than Mr. McIntire himself?

16 A No.

17 Q What did you discuss?

18 A We discussed the situation in general. I

19 asked him questions about the hardness of the barrels.

20 He told me a little bit about how to test the barrel,

21 and that the way that I was testing the barrel was not

22 correct and wouldn't result in a true reading. And

23 said, yeah, send the barrels back to them, and they

24 would check them out.

25 MR. ROBINSON: When you get to a decent

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1 stopping point can we take a five-minute break? No

2 rush on this at all. Whenever you get a good --

3 MR. FIATO: Kevin, you want to do it now?

4 MR. ROBINSON: If that works.

5 MR. FIATO: That works for me.

6 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you.

7 THE COURT REPORTER: Going off record.

8 (Recess was taken.)

9 BY MR. FIATO:

10 Q Mr. Cheely, I think we were talking about you

11 contacting and having conversations and Luke McIntire

12 about the two barrels that he tested that had a Rockwell

13 hardness from your testing down in the low to mid 30s;

14 correct?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And Luke was the only person you talked to at

17 KKM about that specific issue?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Okay. And during your conversations, did Luke

20 tell you that some of the barrels that he made

21 were -- that he manufactured were made of the softer

22 grade of steel than the ones he sold on his website?

23 A I didn't understand it to be that. I

24 understood it that he did make barrels out of two

25 different variations of stainless. I don't about if

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1 it's on sale on the website or not.

2 Q Okay. Did he say to you why he made the two

3 different variations of stainless?

4 A My understanding is the slightly softer

5 version was more accurate for barrels that they wanted

6 to have the most accuracy out of.

7 Q Okay. And did he mention that he was making

8 those barrels for clients that engaged in bullseye

9 shooting?

10 A Yeah. That would be the application for that,

11 I believe, yes.

12 Q Okay. And that's a form of competition

13 shooting; correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And that's a different form of competition

16 shooting from USPSA; correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And bullseye shooting that's more of a

19 low-volume, high-accuracy sport; correct?

20 A I believe so. I've never competed in

21 bullseye.

22 Q Okay. Okay. But certainly they wouldn't be

23 making bullseye guns in 38 super comp, would they?

24 A No. I think they would.

25 Q Are you aware that they make bullseye guns in

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1 38 super comp?

2 A I would assume that some are made in 38 super.

3 Q So you're assuming, you don't know that to

4 be --

5 A I've never shot bullseye, so --

6 Q So you have no knowledge -- no knowledge of

7 that?

8 A No.

9 Q And you've never competed in bullseye

10 shooting?

11 A Correct.

12 Q You don't know how they load cartridges for

13 bullseye shooting, as far as a pressure standpoint?

14 A I do not know.

15 Q Okay. But USPSA shooting, that type of

16 competitive shooting is hard on guns; isn't it?

17 A It is.

18 Q And the hardness requirement for USPSA

19 shooting needs to be, I think you said at some point,

20 "enough to perform its duty."

21 So it would have to be hard enough to

22 withstand the rigors of competition shooting, wouldn't

23 it?

24 A Yes.

25 Q And the barrel was -- so let me take that

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1 back.

2 So 1911 style pistol, the barrel sits inside

3 the slide; correct?

4 A The majority of it, yes.

5 Q There might be -- the muzzle end might stick

6 out at one end, and at the other end of it it's going to

7 be -- at the breach end it's going to be inside the

8 slide but not necessarily covered; correct?

9 A Yeah. The foot of the barrel would be inside

10 the frame.

11 Q Okay. And when the gun is fired, the slide

12 reciprocates rearward; correct?

13 A Well, the slide and the barrel reciprocate

14 backwards, and then the barrel disengages from the slide

15 and the slide continues backward.

16 Q Okay. And then the slide would continue

17 forward; correct?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And in that action, the barrel and the slide

20 would collide together at certain points in the barrel,

21 either at the foot or at the lugs of the barrel;

22 correct?

23 A Yes. The slide would first hit the rear of

24 the hood of the barrel to cause it to start traveling

25 forward again.

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1 Q Okay. And if the barrel was softer than the

2 slide, that wouldn't be a good thing, would it?

3 A No.

4 Q And would that cause the gun possibly to go

5 out of timing?

6 THE WITNESS: Sorry. I might have just lost

7 connection there for a second.

8 MR. FIATO: Are you reading something, sir?

9 THE WITNESS: I might have lost connection

10 there for a second.

11 MR. FIATO: Okay. Can you see me?

12 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I can see you now.

13 MR. FIATO: Can you hear me?

14 THE WITNESS: Yep.

15 BY MR. FIATO:

16 Q Okay. So if the barrel is softer than the

17 slide, it -- that could cause the barrel lugs to deform;

18 correct?

19 A It would make it easier for the barrel lug to

20 deform, yes.

21 Q Yes.

22 And they could roll over?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And compact?

25 A Yeah.

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1 Q Okay. And that could throw the gun out of

2 timing; correct?

3 A That's what you would call it, yes.

4 Q Okay. And if the gun goes out of timing --

5 I've heard Mr. Bedell in his deposition say that once

6 the gun goes out of timing the gun starts to

7 self-destruct.

8 Would you agree with that?

9 MR. BENFORD: Object to form.

10 A Yes, that's correct.

11 BY MR. FIATO:

12 Q Okay. Did Mr. McIntire indicate to you that

13 any of the barrels that he produced for sale were

14 cryogenically treated?

15 A I don't remember.

16 Q So you don't remember if he said that or not;

17 correct?

18 A I do not remember him saying that, no.

19 Q Okay. Did Mr. McIntire tell you that any of

20 the barrels that you received were made out the softer

21 steel?

22 A I believe the two barrels that I had sent back

23 to him were of the different steel, yes.

24 Q Did he indicate to you how it was that you

25 purchased these softer steel barrels that he indicated

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1 were suitable for bullseye shooting?

2 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

3 A I believe he said that they made some barrels

4 out of that and sold them. I don't recall specifically

5 why.

6 BY MR. FIATO:

7 Q Did he tell you that some of the KKM

8 distributors were selling barrels made out of that

9 steel?

10 A I don't remember that.

11 Q Did he tell you that Shooters Connection was

12 selling barrels made out of this softer steel?

13 A I don't recall him saying that.

14 Q Okay. And so -- I want to go back to your

15 conversations with Mr. Horowitz.

16 You had an initial conversation with him where

17 he had concerns about some of the KKM barrels being too

18 soft in his guns; correct?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And did he tell you that he had tested those

21 barrels?

22 A He said -- I don't know if he tested them or

23 he had them tested, but one of the two.

24 Q Okay. You don't recall whether he had them

25 tested or he sent them out or both?

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1 A Yeah. It was one or the other or both. I

2 don't recall exactly which.

3 Q Okay. And, then, sometime after you had your

4 barrels tested -- I think you testified earlier with

5 regard to the notes to the conversations between

6 yourself and Mr. Horowitz, that he called you and he

7 wanted to buy more barrels from him; correct -- more

8 barrels from you -- let me restate it so there's a clear

9 record.

10 After you got your barrels back from KKM there

11 was a conversation in March of 2020 -- March 2nd, 2020,

12 where Shay Horowitz called you to buy grips from you or

13 parts; correct?

14 A Yes, I believe that was the time frame for

15 that.

16 Q Okay. And that's when you told him that you

17 weren't gonna do business with him anymore?

18 A Correct.

19 Q Okay. And that was because of -- excuse me --

20 that was because -- sorry. I've got a frog in my

21 throat.

22 You were refusing to do business with him

23 because of the way he dealt with KKM; is that correct?

24 A That would be the predominant reason, yes.

25 Q Where did you learn -- strike that.

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1 Did you have a conversation with Luke McIntire

2 about his dealings with Shay Horowitz relative to his

3 claims of soft barrels?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And you were basing your decision not to do

6 business with Mr. Horowitz, in part at least, based on

7 those conversations?

8 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

9 A Yes.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Was that a yes?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Okay. And what did Luke tell you that made

14 you decide not to do business with Mr. Horowitz?

15 A That Mr. Horowitz had not sent any barrels

16 back to be evaluated by KKM.

17 Q And what else did he tell you?

18 A I don't know anything specific.

19 Q You don't recall anything specific?

20 A That was the reason that I used for my -- you

21 know, to form my decision to not do business with him

22 anymore was that he did not send any barrels back.

23 Q Did Luke McIntire ask you not to do business

24 with Akai Custom Guns?

25 A No.

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1 Q Did he suggest that you to not do business

2 with Akai Custom Guns?

3 A No.

4 Q Did he tell you that he informed Shay Horowitz

5 that KKM has never produced a soft barrel in its

6 history?

7 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

8 A I don't remember that being said.

9 BY MR. FIATO:

10 Q Okay. Did Luke tell you that Shay offered to

11 send the barrels out for mutually agreed joint testing?

12 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

13 A I don't recall.

14 BY MR. FIATO:

15 Q So you don't recall him telling you that?

16 A No.

17 Q Do you recall Luke telling you that he refused

18 Mr. Horowitz' proposal for joint independent testing?

19 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

20 MR. BENFORD: Join.

21 A I don't remember that being said.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q You don't remember that.

24 Do you think that would be important to know?

25 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

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1 MR. BENFORD: Join.

2 A I don't know why I would need to know that.

3 BY MR. FIATO:

4 Q Well, if he told you that -- if he told you

5 that Mr. Horowitz wasn't agreeing to send him the

6 barrels but would agree to joint mutual testing,

7 wouldn't that be important?

8 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

9 MR. BENFORD: Join.

10 A I don't know that it would be important or

11 not.

12 BY MR. FIATO:

13 Q Would it provide context to Mr. Horowitz'

14 refusal to send them to KKM alone?

15 MR. BENFORD: Object to the form.

16 MR. ROBINSON: Form.

17 A Sorry. I don't understand the question.

18 BY MR. FIATO:

19 Q I'll rephrase.

20 Wouldn't knowing that Mr. Horowitz had offered

21 to send the barrels for joint mutual independent testing

22 be -- provide context to how Mr. Horowitz was handling

23 the situation?

24 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

25 MR. BENFORD: Join.

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1 A Yes.

2 BY MR. FIATO:

3 Q That would; correct?

4 A Yes.

5 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

6 BY MR. FIATO:

7 Q Okay. Did Luke tell you that he advised

8 Mr. Horowitz that he was shit out of luck because

9 Mr. McIntire's lawyer advised him there was no standard

10 way to test a barrel?

11 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

12 A No, I don't remember that.

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q Did Mr. Horowitz tell you that he refused to

15 accept any of Akai's barrels based on his advice -- the

16 advice of his lawyer?

17 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

18 MR. BENFORD: Join.

19 A No, I don't recall that.

20 BY MR. FIATO:

21 Q Did Luke tell you that he told Mr. Horowitz

22 that he can send him his barrel to him so he can tell

23 him how he was testing it wrong?

24 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

25 MR. BENFORD: Join.

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1 A I don't recall that.

2 BY MR. FIATO:

3 Q Did Luke tell you that he told Mr. Horowitz

4 that he wasn't gonna give him -- replace his barrels

5 because he was not in the business of giving away free

6 barrels?

7 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

8 MR. BENFORD: Join.

9 A I do not recall that.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Did you discuss Akai's claim of soft -- I'm

12 sorry.

13 Did you ever discuss Akai's claims of soft KKM

14 barrels with John Vlieger?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Who is John Vlieger?

17 A He's another USPSA competitor.

18 Q Did he ever work for Shooters Connection?

19 A Yes, he did.

20 Q When was the last time you had a conversations

21 with Mr. Vlieger about Mr. Horowitz?

22 A Couple of years ago.

23 Q Would that have been -- couple years you mean

24 around 2019?

25 A Would have been around the time, yes, when all

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1 this was going on, yes.

2 Q Okay. And did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that

3 SCI sold barrels -- let me strike that.

4 Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that Shooters

5 Connection sold KKM barrels made out of a softer steel

6 than KKM sold directly to the public?

7 A Not that I recall.

8 Q He never told you that?

9 A Not that I recall, no.

10 Q Okay. Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that

11 Mr. Horowitz offered to send barrels to mutually agreed

12 independent testing?

13 A Not that I recall.

14 Q Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that he was

15 involved in trying to get KKM and Akai Custom Guns to

16 resolve the matter about Akai's claims of soft barrels?

17 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. You'll have to

18 repeat that. My Internet glitched again.

19 BY MR. FIATO:

20 Q That's okay.

21 Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that he was

22 trying to help KKM and Akai resolve their issues with

23 regard to Akai's claims of soft KKM barrels?

24 A I don't recall.

25 Q Did he ever tell you that KKM refused Akai's

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1 proposal for joint testing?

2 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

3 A I don't recall.

4 BY MR. FIATO:

5 Q Did Mr. -- strike that.

6 Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that Shooters

7 Connection refused to accept the return of any KKM

8 barrels from Akai Custom Guns?

9 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

10 A I don't know if he told me that or not. It

11 was my understanding that they didn't want to take any

12 back, but I don't know that he told me that or not.

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q Do you know where you came to have that

15 understanding that Shooters Connection wouldn't accept

16 Akai's return of KKM barrels?

17 A My understanding is that Shooters Connection

18 policy was that any product that they sold should be

19 taken care of by the manufacturer for any kind of

20 warranty purposes.

21 Q And where did you come to that understanding?

22 A I thought that was their company policy that

23 I've seen before.

24 Q But where did you come to the understanding

25 that SCI wouldn't take back Akai's barrels?

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1 A I don't know specifically.

2 Q Have you had any conversations with Chuck

3 Bradley about this litigation, sir?

4 A Yes.

5 Q When?

6 A It would have been a few years back when I was

7 traveling south and I stopped by Shooters Connection to

8 say hello to the people there.

9 Q And what did Mr. Bradley tell you at that

10 time?

11 A I don't remember the specifics of our

12 conversation.

13 Q Did you -- did he ever tell you that Shay

14 Horowitz had a shady past history?

15 A I don't recall.

16 Q Did he ever tell you that Shay Horowitz was

17 under an active investigation of the FBI?

18 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form, asked and

19 answered.

20 MR. FIATO: It was never asked and answered.

21 MR. BENFORD: It was asked and answered.

22 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that question for

23 me?

24 BY MR. FIATO:

25 Q Did Mr. Bradley -- when you went to go visit

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1 him back a couple years ago at Shooters Connection, did

2 Mr. Bradley ever suggest to you that Shay Horowitz was

3 actively being investigated by the FBI?

4 A Not that I recall, no.

5 Q Did Shay -- did Mr. Bradley when you went to

6 go to Shooters Connection ever tell you that Shay

7 Horowitz was involved in a day trading scam?

8 A I don't remember him saying that, no.

9 Q Did Mr. Bradley ever tell you that

10 Mr. Horowitz was involved in a moving scam?

11 A No.

12 Q Okay. Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that

13 Mr. Horowitz was being actively investigated by the FBI?

14 A Not that I recall.

15 Q Did Mr. Vlieger ever tell you that

16 Mr. Horowitz was involved in a day trading scam?

17 A I don't remember him ever telling me that, no.

18 Q Okay. Do you remember a Mr. Dame telling you

19 that Mr. Horowitz was involved in a moving scam?

20 A No.

21 Q Do you remember producing materials pursuant

22 to the subpoena where Mr. Dame -- let me step back a

23 minute.

24 We talked about Michael Dame; right -- forgive

25 me. I'll go forward.

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1 You produced documents where Mr. Dame

2 suggested that Mr. Horowitz was involved in a moving

3 scam?

4 A I don't remember a moving scam, no.

5 Q Or a trucking scam?

6 A I don't remember that, no.

7 Q Mr. Cheely, I'm gonna refer you back to what

8 has been marked as Exhibit 1. We had previously read

9 portions of this exhibit. I'm going to read -- this is

10 a message from Mr. Dame to you; correct?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And that was back on February 10th of 2020;

13 correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q In the middle of the page Mr. Dame writes to

16 you, "We've been digging here and there of late. He

17 screwed a bunch of people over in the moving truck biz.

18 Closed one company to start a new one with stuff in

19 storage. People's electronics, never showing up."

20 Do you see that?

21 A I do.

22 Q What do you understand Mr. Dame is telling you

23 right there?

24 A He's telling me that Akai screwed a bunch of

25 people in the moving truck biz.

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1 Q Okay. And he's telling you that he also

2 started up another company with stuff in storage;

3 correct?

4 A Yeah.

5 Q Holding in people's electronics and that type

6 of thing?

7 A Yeah.

8 Q And why do you think he's telling you that?

9 A Trying to show me some more of the things that

10 he's done that's not being honest.

11 Q Okay. Would it surprise you to know that

12 Mr. Horowitz never did any of those things?

13 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

14 A Would it surprise me? No, it would not

15 surprise me.

16 BY MR. FIATO:

17 Q And if he never did any of those things then

18 these statements would be a lie; correct?

19 A Yeah, correct.

20 Q And they would be defamatory, would they not?

21 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

22 A I don't know that they would be defamatory.

23 BY MR. FIATO:

24 Q Well, they would be a false statement?

25 A They would be false, yes.

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1 Q And they would tend to hurt his reputation,

2 would they not?

3 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

4 MR. BENFORD: Join.

5 A Yes.

6 BY MR. FIATO:

7 Q Implying that he's dishonest; correct?

8 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

9 MR. BENFORD: Join.

10 A Yeah.

11 BY MR. FIATO:

12 Q And you say -- Mr. Dame is saying, "We've been

13 digging here and there as of late."

14 Do you know who "we've" refers to?

15 A I do not.

16 Q Do you know whether Mr. Dame was in contact

17 with Mr. Bradley to try to dig up information about

18 Mr. Horowitz to put out in the public to discredit him?

19 A I do not.

20 Q Would it surprise you to know that there's

21 been documents produced by Mr. Bradley that shows that

22 Mr. Dame contacted Mr. Bradley and asked him how he

23 could help?

24 A That wouldn't surprise me.

25 Q Why wouldn't it surprise you?

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1 A Not much would surprise me about the entire

2 case. Things happen. That's not surprising.

3 Q Would it surprise you that Mr. Bradley thanked

4 Mr. Dame for all his help in trying to get information,

5 and Mr. Dame's response to him was, "Anything to get rid

6 of Shay"?

7 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

8 A No, that wouldn't surprise me.

9 BY MR. FIATO:

10 Q Do you know Mr. Dame as somebody that has a

11 reputation as being a troll?

12 A I don't know that, no.

13 Q Do you know Mr. Dame is somebody who would go

14 on the Internet and would post things about other people

15 that were negative?

16 A Not specifically, no.

17 Q Okay. Has Mr. Horowitz ever failed to pay

18 you?

19 A No.

20 Q He's paid you for every part you've ever

21 shipped to him, hasn't he? Is that correct?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And there's been instances where you went to

24 charge his credit card and it was declined; correct?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q And you don't know whether that was because he

2 had made several purchases for parts and hit his max

3 limit?

4 A I don't know the reason.

5 Q Okay. But he's always paid his bills; right?

6 A We've never billed him. We've always charged

7 before shipping.

8 Q He's always paid his charges, hasn't he?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Okay. After Mr. Dame says -- gives the

11 communication that I just read to you, you respond to

12 him. It starts with, "He bought some grips."

13 Can you read that?

14 A It says, "He bought some grips from over the

15 last few months. I'm not selling him another thing

16 after that KKM deal and the line of shit he spewed to me

17 about it."

18 Q What's the line of shit he spewed to you about

19 it?

20 A He told me that KKM wouldn't take his barrels

21 back and things like this. And he wasn't go a send them

22 one, I believe. And it was in direct contradiction to

23 what Luke had told me.

24 Q So you decided to believe Luke over Shay?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q But if Luke, in fact, refused to send those

2 barrels, then Mr. Horowitz wasn't, in your words,

3 "spewing a line of shit," was he?

4 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

5 MR. BENFORD: Join.

6 A I don't know. Could you say that --

7 BY MR. FIATO:

8 Q If Mr. Horowitz was telling the truth, then

9 what he was telling you wasn't a line of shit, was it?

10 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

11 MR. BENFORD: Join.

12 A Correct.

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q And then Mr. Dame says, "I'm surprised anyone

15 deals with him with his history of skipping bills on top

16 of this."

17 You never billed him; correct?

18 THE WITNESS: Sorry. You've got to repeat.

19 My Internet is not great.

20 BY MR. FIATO:

21 Q I understand.

22 Mr. Dame says, "I'm surprised anyone deals

23 with him with his history of skipping bills on top of

24 this."

25 And my question to you was: You've never

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1 billed Mr. Horowitz; correct?

2 A Correct.

3 Q And he's paid all of his charges for all the

4 parts that you shipped to him; correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. Mr. Dame next says, "I'm told he owes

7 the DLC guy in Ohio for 11 guns."

8 Do you know who -- what's a DLC guy? Is that

9 a coding?

10 A I would assume that's a coding company. I

11 don't know who he would be referring to.

12 Q Okay. And he's indicating that Mr. Horowitz

13 owes him for 11 guns presumably for coding services;

14 correct?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And if that statement isn't true, then that

17 would -- I'm sorry.

18 If that's not, in fact, the case, then that

19 statement would be a lie; correct?

20 A Correct.

21 MR. BENFORD: Objection form.

22 It's 2:30 now. Do you have any plans on

23 breaking for lunch?

24 MR. FIATO: That's a good question for the

25 court reporter.

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1 MR. BENFORD: Well, actually, it's a good

2 question for the witness. It's actually --

3 MR. FIATO: Yeah, actually it is a good --

4 THE WITNESS: I need to be done by 3:30 today,

5 so I don't need lunch if we keep going. You've got

6 another 54 minutes.

7 BY MR. FIATO:

8 Q I think you testified earlier that you didn't

9 want to do business with Mr. Horowitz because -- in part

10 based on what Mr. McIntire told you, but also because

11 you were afraid that he would have a problem with one of

12 your parts and end up suing you; is that correct?

13 A That he would have a problem and then not work

14 with us at all and sue us and not return a part for

15 inspection, yes.

16 Q He had already had a problem with you, hadn't

17 he?

18 A Yeah. And we refunded his money.

19 Q And he returned the parts to you, didn't he?

20 And he returned the parts to you, didn't he?

21 THE WITNESS: Sorry. The Internet just

22 glitched again.

23 MR. FIATO: That's what I thought.

24 BY MR. FIATO:

25 Q My response was: And he returned those parts

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1 to you, didn't he?

2 A He did.

3 Q Because you agreed to pay -- to refund his

4 money?

5 A Yes.

6 Q It's a reasonable thing to do, you say, "I'll

7 refund your money," and then he returns the parts;

8 correct?

9 A I believe it was, he returned the parts and

10 then I refunded his money.

11 Q But you had agreed to return -- refund his

12 money if he returned the parts; correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Okay. And that's a reasonable thing to do?

15 A I believe so.

16 Q Okay. What did Mr. Vlieger tell you about

17 Akai's claims that the barrels he purchased from KKM

18 were soft?

19 A I don't remember any of the specific

20 conversations we had.

21 Q Did you tell him you were refusing to do

22 business with Akai?

23 A I don't recall if I told him or not.

24 Q Did he ever ask you to refuse to do business

25 with Akai?

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1 A Not that I recall.

2 Q Did he ever suggest that you not do business

3 with Akai?

4 A Not that I recall.

5 Q Mr. Cheely, this is gonna be marked

6 Exhibit 13. This was produced pursuant to subpoena to

7 you. You labeled the document, "John Vlieger

8 correspondence."

9 Do you see that?

10 A Yes.

11 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 13 was marked for

12 identification.)

13 BY MR. FIATO:

14 Q And it's dated March 6th, 2020 at 2:11 p.m.;

15 correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Mr. Vlieger is saying to you "He didn't get

18 that grip from us but I think I know where he got the

19 hybrid barrel."

20 Why is he sending you a picture with an Akai

21 gun with one of Cheely Custom Gunworks' grips?

22 A I don't know why he would send it.

23 Q Did he, in fact, know that you refused to sell

24 grips to him?

25 A I don't know if he did at that time or not.

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1 Q Did that make you mad?

2 A Did what?

3 Q The fact that Mr. Horowitz was building a gun

4 using your grips, did that upset you?

5 A No.

6 Q Were you -- can you read your response to

7 Mr. Vlieger?

8 A I said, "Surprised he even posted a picture of

9 my grip after I told him I wouldn't sell him parts."

10 Q Why would that surprise you?

11 A Because he wouldn't be able to get them from

12 me anymore to put on his guns.

13 Q He could get it from other people, couldn't

14 he?

15 A Yeah, I suppose he could.

16 Q Who do you sell your grips to?

17 A Lots of people.

18 Q Do you sell them to other distributors?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Other people, other than SCI; correct?

21 A Yes.

22 Q You testified earlier that you know a lot of

23 vendors that won't sell to Mr. Akai -- I'm sorry -- to

24 Akai Custom Guns; that the right?

25 THE WITNESS: Sorry. You've got to say that

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1 again. Internet glitched again.

2 MR. FIATO: No problem.

3 BY MR. FIATO:

4 Q You testified earlier that there was a lot of

5 suppliers that won't sell to Akai Custom Guns; correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Who are they?

8 A As I know Shooters Connection, SVI, and I

9 couldn't list others.

10 Q Those are the only two that you know of?

11 A Specifically, yes.

12 Q And KKM, of course; correct?

13 A I would assume so, but --

14 Q But you don't know that for sure?

15 A No, I do not know that for sure.

16 Q How do you know that SV -- is that Infinity?

17 A Yes.

18 Q So that's a gun company called Infinity -- a

19 gun manufacturing and parts company called Infinity; is

20 that correct?

21 A Yeah. The think it's Strayer-Voigt,

22 Incorporated, SVI, Infinity, yes.

23 Q Okay. Did they recently re-brand their name,

24 or in the past they had re-brand from Strayer-Voigt to

25 Infinity?

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1 A I do not know.

2 Q Okay. Do you know anybody that works over at

3 Infinity?

4 A Personally, no.

5 Q Okay. So how do you know that Infinity won't

6 sell to Mr. Horowitz?

7 A Vlieger told me there.

8 Q And do you know this Joe Borkowski [phonetic]?

9 A I do not.

10 Q Do you know whether he works at SVI or not?

11 A I do not.

12 Q Okay. Why do you think that Mr. Vlieger is

13 contacting you and discussing the Akai Custom Guns with

14 you?

15 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

16 MR. BENFORD: Join.

17 A I'm sure he was contacting me because of the

18 situation between Akai and KKM.

19 BY MR. FIATO:

20 Q What is the use of your grip in the exhibit

21 that I just showed you have to do with anything related

22 to the KKM situation?

23 MR. BENFORD: Form.

24 A I don't know.

25

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1 BY MR. FIATO:

2 Q Can you think of any good reason why he would

3 do that, other than to either upset you or let you know

4 that Akai was using your grips?

5 MR. ROBINSON: Object to then form.

6 MR. BENFORD: Object to the form.

7 A I assume that he was showing me that because

8 it had our grip on it.

9 BY MR. FIATO:

10 Q For what reason?

11 A That's -- I don't know the reason.

12 Q And isn't it true that he did not once, but he

13 contacted you again and suggested that he knows how Akai

14 Custom Guns got your grip, and suggested that it was a

15 through a company called Atlas?

16 A I believe that's what he told me.

17 Q Okay. And why would he do that, sir?

18 MR. BENFORD: Form.

19 A Sorry. I believe that's what he told me.

20 BY MR. FIATO:

21 Q Yes. And I said, why would he do that, sir?

22 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

23 MR. BENFORD: Objection to form.

24 A I don't know.

25

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1 BY MR. FIATO:

2 Q Was he doing that because you agreed not to

3 sell Akai Custom Guns any parts at his suggestion?

4 A No.

5 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

6 MR. BENFORD: Object to the form.

7 BY MR. FIATO:

8 Q Who is Bobby Keigans?

9 A He's the owner of Freedom Gunworks.

10 Q Did you ever own a company with Bobby Keigans?

11 A No.

12 Q You never own a company with Bobby Keigans?

13 MR. BENFORD: Objection form.

14 A No.

15 BY MR. FIATO:

16 Q Did you ever work with Bobby Keigans at a

17 company called C&K Arms?

18 A CK Arms was a company that he owned, and I was

19 not a partner in that company in any way. I supplied

20 parts to him and that company.

21 Q Did the C in CK Arms stand for Cheely?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Okay. So it's Cheely and Keigans Arms -- is

24 what the C and K was for?

25 A It was, but I was not legally any part of that

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1 company.

2 Q Okay. But you supplied him all the parts that

3 he would use to make the guns for C&K Arms; correct?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And did you derive any income other than the

6 sale of those parts from C&K Arms?

7 A That was the basis for my income from that,

8 was the sale of the parts, yes. I don't know that there

9 was any other income, it was the sale of parts.

10 Q So let me understand.

11 So you would sell parts to Bobby Keigans, and

12 then he would manufacture 1911s or 2011s based on the

13 parts that you sold to him; correct?

14 A Yes. And he would manufacture the frame there

15 in his location.

16 Q Okay. And where is his location?

17 A In Georgia.

18 Q In Georgia.

19 Where in Georgia?

20 A The town is Camilla, Georgia.

21 Q Okay. So this more of a collaboration? Is

22 that what it was? You didn't legally own anything in

23 C&K Arms, but it was a business collaboration between

24 the two of you?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q Okay. And C&K Arms, they sold pistols to the

2 public; correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And they sold pistols to the public through

5 Shooters Connection?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And when was C&K Arms formed?

8 A I don't remember the year. It would have been

9 a few years prior to 2018. It would have been around

10 2015, I believe.

11 Q And do you know, was John Vlieger a shooter

12 for C&K Arms?

13 A I don't think he was ever a sponsored shooter

14 that I'm aware of.

15 Q Do you know what brand of barrel was used to

16 build C&K Arms pistols?

17 A Probably KKM barrels.

18 Q They were KKM barrels.

19 Do you know if they were exclusively KKM

20 barrels or not?

21 A I do not.

22 Q Did C&K Arms have any problems with its

23 pistols breaking?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Did C&K Arms have any problems with its slides

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1 cracking?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Did C&K Arms ever have any problems with the

4 barrels -- I'm sorry -- the lugs on its barrels folding

5 and rolling over?

6 A On occasion I believe that has happened

7 before.

8 Q Do you know, did Mr. Vlieger contact you about

9 problems he was having with one of his C&K Arms pistols?

10 A I do remember he contacted me about having a

11 problem. I don't remember if it was the CK Arms pistol

12 or not. It was something that Bobby had built, I think,

13 or worked on.

14 Q Okay. Do you know approximately how many C&K

15 Arms pistols failed over the life of the company?

16 A I do not.

17 Q Are you in possession of any barrel that was

18 taken out of a CK Arms pistol that failed?

19 A No.

20 Q Do you know if Mr. Keigans would be in

21 possession of any barrel that was taken out of a C&K

22 Arms pistol that failed?

23 A I do not know.

24 Q Mr. Cheely, this is Exhibit 14 produced by

25 you. Seems to be a conversation between yourself and

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1 Mr. Vlieger on October 9th, 2017 at 4:57 p.m.; correct?

2 A Yes.

3 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 14 was marked for

4 identification.)

5 BY MR. FIATO:

6 Q Seems that Mr. Vlieger is saying, "Matt" --

7 addressing you -- "Bobby seems to be ignoring me to an

8 extent. Can I get your opinion on what happened to my

9 gun? I've gotten opinions from other smiths, but would

10 like to know what you think happened. I was running

11 172 PF" -- I assume PF is power factor?

12 A I would Assume so.

13 Q Okay. Is that a normal power factor for

14 USPSA?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Okay. "1.170 OAL," overall length; is that

17 correct?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Okay. And, "6.9 grains," he's referring to

20 the powder charge that would be in the cartridge that he

21 is using?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And he's saying, "Auto comp CCI SRP."

24 What does CCI stand for?

25 A CCI is a company. Small rifle primer, SRP.

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1 Q And is he referring to the brass that was used

2 to load this cartridge?

3 A That's the primer used.

4 Q Okay. And he says it's a nine pound recoil

5 spring.

6 That's the recoil spring used in the 1911,

7 2011 style gun; correct?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And, "Barrel appears undamaged except the lugs

10 are rounded."

11 Do you see that, sir?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Okay. Can you. And there's several pictures

14 here; correct?

15 A Yeah.

16 Q Okay. Do you still have this exhibit on your

17 computer?

18 A Not on this computer, no.

19 Q And can you see in the second picture from the

20 left on the top it appears that the slide has cracked;

21 correct?

22 A That's what it appears to be, yes.

23 Q Okay. And it appears that the lugs have

24 rounded over; correct?

25 A I really can't tell from the picture.

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1 Q But that's what he's claiming, that the lugs

2 are rounded?

3 A Yes, that appears to be what he's claiming.

4 Q And you say, "From the sideway shot of the

5 pistol together, it looks like the barrel is cracked.

6 Over pressure. I have never seen a slide crack like

7 that without an over pressure situation."

8 And then Mr. Vlieger tells you the barrel is

9 not cracked, as far as he can tell, and shows you some

10 more pictures -- let's take a look at that, please -- is

11 that correct sir?

12 A That's what it says.

13 Q And can you tell from those pictures whether

14 his claim that the lugs are rolled over is correct or

15 not?

16 A I can't tell from the pictures, no.

17 Q Okay. Do you know if any of the KKM

18 barrels -- I'm sorry -- if any of the C&K pistols that

19 failed had the barrels tested?

20 A I do not.

21 Q Do you know if any of the C&K barrels that --

22 I'm sorry -- the C&K pistols where they had cracked

23 slide had the slides tested?

24 A I do not.

25 Q What types of breakages were you hearing about

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1 C&K pistols?

2 A Everything I would say.

3 Q Can you be more specific, sir?

4 A Broken slides, the barrel -- or the gun

5 wouldn't run a hundred percent. You'd have all sorts of

6 various failures of small other parts. Lots of

7 different things. Hundreds of pistols built, you're

8 gonna have problems sometimes.

9 Q Okay. And you don't know how many pistols

10 broke, do you?

11 A I do not know any numbers, no.

12 Q Do you know how many pistols S&K produced in

13 its existence?

14 A I do not.

15 Q I'm sorry. C&K produced in its existence?

16 A No, I do not.

17 Q So in the previous portion of this exhibit you

18 had suggested that there was an over pressure situation,

19 and Mr. Vlieger tells you what kind of load he was

20 running; correct?

21 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Internet glitched again.

22 Can you please repeat?

23 BY MR. FIATO:

24 Q You had suggested to Mr. Vlieger that it was

25 possibly an over pressure situation; correct?

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1 A That was my assumption based on the picture

2 with the cracked slide.

3 Q Okay. But then you inquired what load he was

4 running; correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And he said in part of his conversation,

7 second response down, "My load 6.9 WAC, 124 PD JHP,

8 1.170 CC SRP. Powder check every 200 rounds;" correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Do you think that's an over pressured round,

11 sir?

12 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

13 MR. BENFORD: Join.

14 A Loaded that way, no, it seems very reasonable.

15 BY MR. FIATO:

16 Q Okay. Before I leave this slide, it seems

17 Mr. Vlieger is saying that this is the second slide he's

18 had on this gun, that it had failed with maybe 2- to

19 3,000 rounds on the first slide replacement; is that

20 correct?

21 A That's what it appears to say, yes.

22 Q Okay. So at this point he's gone through two

23 slides on this gun?

24 MR. BENFORD: Object to form.

25 A That's what it appears to say, yes.

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1 BY MR. FIATO:

2 Q And can you tell from looking at the pictures

3 that I showed you previously whether or not this is a

4 KKM barrel or not?

5 A It appears to be a KKM barrel.

6 Q Okay. So in this -- these communications

7 between you and John Vlieger he's asking for your

8 assistance, and in getting the warranty repair on the

9 gun; is that accurate?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Why is he going to you if you're not involved

12 with the company?

13 A Well, I'm involved in marketing for the

14 company, and he's coming to me because he's not getting

15 a resolution out of Mr. Keigans.

16 Q Okay. But you didn't derive any income from

17 the sale of any firearm built by C&K Arms?

18 A Yeah, that's correct.

19 Q That's correct that you did not; right?

20 A Yeah, I did not. I did not sell the pistols,

21 no.

22 Q So my understanding is, he's coming to you

23 because he's not getting anywhere with Bobby?

24 A Correct.

25 Q And so you can see the slide on the screen,

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1 yes, sir?

2 A Yeah.

3 Q And that's a message from John Vlieger on

4 October 10th, 2017; correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. And he's showing you -- is this the

7 barrel from that same gun, sir?

8 A Probably, but I don't know.

9 Q He didn't contact you -- let me strike that.

10 Did he contact you in regard to any other S&K

11 gun that failed -- I'm sorry. C&K.

12 A No.

13 Q Okay. And he's showing you a barrel from his

14 gun with the lugs rolled over; correct?

15 A I can't tell if the lugs are rolled over from

16 the picture here.

17 Q What can you tell from it?

18 A I can tell it's a 1911 barrel. That's about

19 all I can tell from the picture. It's not a very good

20 picture.

21 Q It's not a good picture for you?

22 A No.

23 Q Do you still have the production of documents

24 that you sent to us, sir?

25 A Not available to me here, no.

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1 Q But it's clear that he's showing you a picture

2 of a 1911 barrel, and he's showing you the lugs;

3 correct?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Okay. Do you see his slide, sir?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Can you tell me what it is, sir?

8 A It appears to be a screenshot of an Internet

9 page and somebody posting a meme about soft barrels.

10 Q There's two parts to it; am I correct?

11 There's -- it looks like a screenshot, and then it

12 actually looks like a text message or an instant message

13 of the -- of 2011 Universe -- whether that's a page or

14 Facebook page, something to that effect; right?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And it's my by a Mike Hoffer [phonetic]?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Who sent you that?

19 A I believe John Vlieger sent that.

20 Q Why?

21 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

22 A Because of the KKM situation.

23 BY MR. FIATO:

24 Q Why is he sending you that?

25 MR. ROBINSON: Object to form.

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1 A I don't know.

2 BY MR. FIATO:

3 Q Do you know how he got it?

4 A It appears to be from Facebook.

5 Q Did you ever have a conversation with him

6 about this Facebook -- I'll call it a meme?

7 A I don't remember having a conversation about

8 that, no.

9 Q Did he ever -- di you ever respond to him

10 after he sent you this Facebook meme?

11 A Not that I recall.

12 Q Can you read the meme for me and describe it?

13 A It's a guy -- I don't even know how the

14 describe the picture part of it. It says, "Admit you

15 fucked up some gun builds," and the next one saying,

16 "Soft barrel PSA."

17 Q What did you understand that to relate to?

18 A I would understand it to relate to Akai Custom

19 Guns.

20 Q And it's suggesting that Akai Custom Guns was

21 responsible for the problems it was having with its guns

22 breaking and not due to any soft barrel situation;

23 correct?

24 A Yes, it would be -- he didn't -- wouldn't want

25 to admit you made a mistake and instead saying you had

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1 soft barrels. That would be my interpretation of it.

2 Q Would it be implying that he's being

3 dishonest, would it not?

4 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

5 A Yes, I believe it would imply that.

6 BY MR. FIATO:

7 Q Okay. It would imply Mr. Horowitz wasn't

8 being honest -- was dishonest?

9 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

10 MR. BENFORD: Join.

11 A Yes.

12 BY MR. FIATO:

13 Q Do you know when Mr. Vlieger sent that to you,

14 was he working for Shooters Connection at that time?

15 A I don't know when he was employed there, no.

16 Q Mr. Cheely, this is we're gonna mark this as

17 Exhibit 15. This is a document you've produced in

18 response to the subpoena sent to you by my office.

19 Can you describe what you see on the screen,

20 sir?

21 A It's a Facebook conversations in messenger

22 with Mike Dame.

23 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 15 was marked for

24 identification.)

25 BY MR. FIATO:

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1 Q Okay. And this is to you?

2 A I believe so, yeah.

3 Q Okay. And it -- Mr. Dame writes, "His lawyer,

4 Roy's buddy, blocked me on Facebook after I made the C&D

5 joke on Tarr's post about Butler."

6 Do you know who the lawyer is?

7 A I do not.

8 Q Do you know if he was referring to me or

9 Mr. Yee?

10 A I do not.

11 Q Okay. And do you know what a C&D joke is?

12 A No, I do not.

13 Q "Tarr's post about Butler."

14 Tarr is James Tarr?

15 A Yeah. I would assume that would mean James

16 Tarr's post about Taran Butler, but I don't know what

17 it's about.

18 Q Okay. And James Tarr is a writer in the gun

19 industry; correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And he's competition shooter; correct?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Grandmaster in, I think, production and a

24 couple of other divisions?

25 A I believe that's correct.

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1 Q And Taran Butler is also -- he's a Hollywood

2 celebrity and also USPSA competitor as well; correct?

3 A I'd put that in the other order, but, yes.

4 Q Why would you put it in the other order?

5 A He was a shooter before he started training

6 Hollywood people.

7 Q That he was. That he was.

8 Very good shooter; right? Grandmaster in

9 multiple divisions?

10 A Very, very good shooter, yes.

11 Q Okay. Okay. This is continuation of

12 Exhibit 1 where you're saying to Mr. Dame, "Half the

13 time he bought grips his credit card would be declined

14 and I'd have to run ut a week later. Seems like it's

15 always maxed out or et cetera;" correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q So is it your testimony -- or are you -- would

18 you say that's a true statement; sir?

19 A What I typed to him there?

20 Q Yeah.

21 A Yes. That's what happened, yes.

22 Q So 50 percent of the time that he bought

23 something, his card was declined to you?

24 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

25 MR. BENFORD: Join.

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1 A I don't know if it was exactly 50 percent, but

2 it was quite often.

3 BY MR. FIATO:

4 Q But it's not half the time?

5 A I couldn't tell you.

6 Q Okay. Could that be just an exaggeration on

7 your part?

8 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

9 A It could be a bit of an exaggeration, yes.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Okay. Mr. Dame then says, "Shay defaulted on

12 a property 250-ish K. Bank of America had to sue him to

13 pay off that credit card."

14 What is he referring to there? Do you know?

15 A I do not.

16 Q Okay. And you reply, "Sounds like a house of

17 cards. Wonderful when it's full;" right?

18 A I said, "Wonder when it will fall."

19 Q Oh, "Wonder when it will fall." Thank you for

20 the correction.

21 Mr. Dame then says, "We keep pushing on it."

22 What did you understand that to mean?

23 A That they're continuing to look at things that

24 he's done in his past.

25 Q Okay. His next thing -- he says, "I thought

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1 the Luke Cao was the nail in the coffing."

2 What is that?

3 A I'm not familiar with that situation. I don't

4 know who that is.

5 Q Did you ever have any conversations with

6 Mr. Dame after he sent you this text message?

7 A I'm sure I've had conversations with him in

8 the past four years, yes.

9 Q Did he ever tell you that he was posting

10 negative information on the Internet about Akai Custom

11 Guns?

12 A I don't recall him saying that, no.

13 Q Okay. Did you ever recall him saying that he

14 and a group of other people were posting information on

15 the Internet about Luke Cao suggesting that Akai Custom

16 Guns refused to honor a contingency program because it

17 didn't have the ability to pay?

18 A I'm not aware of that.

19 Q And then Mr. Dame says after the Luke Cao

20 comment, "We're going to find the right thread

21 eventually."

22 What did you understand him to mean by that?

23 A I really don't know. I would have interpret

24 that right then to have something to do with the

25 pictures that he sent of the threaded barrel.

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1 Q Okay. And then he says, "His next company is

2 already set up, Akai Manufacturing."

3 You don't know why he's saying that to you

4 either, do you?

5 A No, I don't know.

6 Q Seems like a weird thing to say to you,

7 doesn't it?

8 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

9 MR. BENFORD: Join.

10 A A little bit, yes.

11 BY MR. FIATO:

12 Q Does it seem like he's out to try ruin or

13 discredit Shay Horowitz?

14 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

15 MR. BENFORD: Form.

16 A I'd say he's trying to give me some

17 information about it. I don't know that he would be

18 doing it in order to discredit them.

19 BY MR. FIATO:

20 Q Well, do you think he's giving you that

21 information so that you have a good opinion of

22 Mr. Horowitz?

23 A No.

24 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

25 MR. BENFORD: Object to the form.

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1 BY MR. FIATO:

2 Q Okay. He next sends you a series of pictures.

3 Do you see that, sir?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And he says, "Would you be okay with that in a

6 $7,000ish build."

7 Do you see that?

8 A Yes.

9 Q What do you take that -- what do you take his

10 statement to mean?

11 A That means that it doesn't look like very good

12 machine work.

13 Q Okay. Did he tell you that that gun -- I'm

14 sorry.

15 Did he tell you that that barrel had 70,000

16 rounds on it?

17 A Not that I recall.

18 Q Did he tell you that that gun was -- that

19 barrel was in a gun owned by Cody Baker to -- and used

20 to win multiple area championships?

21 A No.

22 Q Did he tell you that that barrel had been shot

23 so much that the rifling inside the barrel had been worn

24 out?

25 A No.

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1 Q Did he tell you that Luke McIntire gave him

2 that barrel -- strike that.

3 Did he tell you that Luke McIntire sent that

4 barrel to -- a picture of that barrel to Chuck Bradley?

5 A I do not recall that, no.

6 Q Okay. You respond after you see that picture,

7 like, "What the fuck?" "WTF," meaning "what the fuck?"

8 A Yes.

9 Q And why did you say that?

10 A 'Cause it doesn't look very good.

11 Q Okay. But if a barrel had 70,000 rounds, had

12 been used to win multiple area championships, and had

13 been shot so much that it was worn out, it would look

14 like that, wouldn't it?

15 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

16 MR. BENFORD: Join.

17 A My actual thought would be, why is there a gap

18 in the barrel? Why wasn't it seated on there all the

19 way? The coloring could have been from anything, so my

20 interpretation was the machine work not the color of the

21 barrel.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q Did Mr. Dame tell you that Akai Custom

24 Guns -- I'm sorry -- that Mr. Horowitz actually sent

25 that barrel to Luke McIntire after it had been -- it had

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1 70,000 rounds in it, and after he had attempted to

2 remove the Tungsten sleeve, to show Luke how well the

3 tungsten held up?

4 A I don't recall that, no.

5 Q And if that was the case, wouldn't that barrel

6 look like that?

7 MR. BENFORD: Object to the form.

8 MR. ROBINSON: Form.

9 A Possibly. I don't know.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Wasn't Mr. Dame sending you that barrel to try

12 to imply that Akai Custom Guns is negligent in the way

13 it builds guns?

14 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

15 A I wouldn't say negligent; I would just say

16 poor.

17 BY MR. FIATO:

18 Q Poor what?

19 A Poor work. Poor machining.

20 Q Okay. He's trying to imply that they do poor

21 work; correct?

22 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

23 MR. BENFORD: Join.

24 A Yes.

25

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1 BY MR. FIATO:

2 Q Okay. What did you do to prepare for your

3 deposition today, sir?

4 A I got my computer working.

5 Q Did you have any conversations with anybody

6 from Shooters Connection or KKM before the deposition?

7 A Right before or from years ago?

8 Q In the last 30 days.

9 A About?

10 Q About your deposition -- specifically about

11 your deposition.

12 A No.

13 Q Okay. So you didn't discuss this lawsuit with

14 Luke McIntire or Mr. Bradley or Michael Dame?

15 A I have discussed it with them. Nothing

16 specific about it.

17 Q What did you discuss?

18 A I've talked to all of them about.

19 Q What did you discuss with Mr. McIntire?

20 A Just that I have to give a deposition.

21 Q Did Mr. McIntire suggest that you testify in

22 any certain way during this deposition?

23 A No.

24 Q What did -- beyond saying that you had to

25 appear for deposition, what else did you discuss with

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1 Mr. McIntire, specifically about this deposition.

2 A Just that -- the things surrounding it, that

3 we had sent back some barrels and they were fine, and I

4 didn't understand why would they be getting sued like

5 this.

6 Q Okay. And did you call Mr. McIntire, or did

7 he call you?

8 A He called me to get our payment information

9 for an order and we had a short chat.

10 Q When was this conversation?

11 A In the past couple of weeks.

12 Q And did you have a conversation with Mr. Chuck

13 Bradley?

14 A Not in the past couple of weeks or month, no.

15 I don't remember the last time I talked to him.

16 Q Did you have a conversation with Mr. Bradley

17 about this lawsuit?

18 A Couple of years ago when I stopped by his

19 shop, yes, I did.

20 Q Okay. And did you have conversation with

21 Mr. Bradley about giving your deposition in this case.

22 A No. I didn't know I was gonna be deposed at

23 that time.

24 Q Okay. I want to step back for a minute.

25 You sell barrels -- KKM barrels; correct?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q Does KKM test those barrels for you before

3 they ship them to you?

4 A They have before, yes.

5 Q Okay. At your request?

6 A No. At some point I believe that became the

7 standard procedure for them. And I recall getting a box

8 of barrels from them along with the test report for the

9 hardness.

10 Q So prior to, let's say, October of 2019, when

11 you bought barrels from KKM you would not get a box from

12 them with standard test reports when you got your

13 barrels; correct?

14 A Correct.

15 Q Have you talked to Mr. Vlieger about your

16 deposition?

17 A Not that I recall.

18 Q How about Mr. Dame? Did you talk to Mr. Dame

19 about given a deposition in this case?

20 A No.

21 Q When's the last time you talked to Mr. Dame?

22 A I don't remember. It's been a while.

23 Q You said earlier that many times there would

24 be failures with barrels where they would crack or break

25 because of an overcharge -- or double charge I think you

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1 said it was; correct?

2 A When I've seen barrels fail, most of the time

3 it's because of the double charge or a squib.

4 Q Okay. And a squib so everybody -- for the

5 non-gun people, is when you fire a round and it doesn't

6 have any powder or insufficient powder in it and it

7 lodges the bullet into the barrel; correct --

8 A Yes.

9 Q -- just far enough so the next round -- it

10 will eject that cartridge, the next bullet will seat,

11 and they will fire the bullet with an obstruction, the

12 other barrel -- the other bullet in the barrel; correct?

13 A It will either cycle or will be hand-cycled

14 out, yes, so another live round fires behind the

15 obstructed barrel.

16 Q Okay. And you know that because you

17 would -- you would have the obstruction in the barrel

18 and you'd be able to prove that after the fact; correct?

19 A It be a very specific type of failure where

20 you would see a bulge part way down the barrel.

21 Q Okay. And would the first barrel that got --

22 or first bullet that got lodged in the barrel still

23 typically be in there?

24 A No. They would typically all be gone, I

25 think, depends on the power of the round and et cetera.

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1 Q Okay. So how would one know that they

2 actually had a squib?

3 A Because the gun blows up and then the barrel

4 is bulged out towards the end of the barrel, wherein a

5 normal situation the lowest pressure that the barrel

6 sees would be towards the end, so there would be nothing

7 to cause it to bulge at the far end of the barrel unless

8 there was an obstruction.

9 Q Okay. So it bulges at that end of the barrel

10 because of the obstruction, and that's where it

11 typically fails; correct?

12 A Yes.

13 Q What about an overcharge? How would one prove

14 that a cartridge was overcharged?

15 A I don't think you could prove it, but if there

16 was an overcharge situation you would expect the failure

17 to occur at the chamber end of the barrel to be cracked

18 open or expanded by the -- where the round actually

19 ignited.

20 Q Okay. But you can't prove that it was caused

21 by an overcharge, you can just prove that it failed

22 there; correct?

23 A Correct.

24 Q Because you weren't there when the cartridge

25 was loaded?

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1 A That, and if it was an overcharge it would be

2 very loud sounding as well.

3 Q Okay. So in the absence of a loud report upon

4 firing, there would be no indication that it was an

5 overcharge, it would be merely somebody speculating that

6 it was an overcharge; correct?

7 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

8 A Yes. The only way to tell the actual pressure

9 would be to test it in a pressure testing barrel, yes.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q You testified earlier that you had a Rockwell

12 tester.

13 Is that at that location there?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Is it there currently?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Is it far away?

18 A It's in another room.

19 Q How long would it take you to go there and

20 tell us what brand of Rockwell tester it was?

21 A About 60 seconds.

22 Q Do it, please.

23 A The hardness tester is manufactured by

24 Phase II.

25 Q Phase II?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q And do you know, did you buy that new or was

3 it used?

4 A I bought it new.

5 Q Okay. And how long have you had it?

6 A I bought it new.

7 Q How long have you had it, sir?

8 A Since about 2019. I bought it around the time

9 when this stuff started happening.

10 MR. FIATO: Excuse me for just one second.

11 MR. BENFORD: Pardon me, Rick. The witness

12 indicated he needs to be somewhere at 3:30.

13 Is that correct, Mr. Cheely.

14 THE WITNESS: I can give you a little bit more

15 time if we can finish up today rather than coming

16 in again.

17 MR. FIATO: I would prefer to finish up today.

18 And I'll try to be as brief as possible rather than

19 reserving the right to call you back, because we're

20 entitled to seven hours.

21 THE WITNESS: Okay.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q So we talked about Mr. Bobby Keigans before.

24 How long have you known Mr. Keigans?

25 A Oh, probably for 15 or more years.

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1 Q Okay. And have you done several

2 collaborations with him over the years?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And when was the first time you collaborated

5 with him, sir?

6 A I did some work for him starting probably 15

7 years ago.

8 Q So prior to 2014, then?

9 A Yeah, I believe so.

10 Q Okay. Maybe 2010?

11 A Could have been. Hard to remember that long

12 ago.

13 Q And I think Mr. Benford asked you about

14 Mr. Horowitz' reputation in being referred to as

15 "shady;" correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And you -- I think you said you thought you

18 saw some posts a number of years ago that implied that

19 he was shady or he was a shyster or something to that

20 effect; correct?

21 A I saw multiple places on the Internet where he

22 was referred to the as shady.

23 Q Okay. And would one of those places be where

24 Mr. Bobby Keigans was posting about Mr. Horowitz in

25 calling him shady?

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1 A Most likely, but I cannot recall specifically.

2 Q So it's somebody that you've collaborated in

3 the past with that claims that Mr. Horowitz is shady?

4 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form, misstates prior

5 testimony.

6 Go ahead and answer.

7 A I don't know if he specifically said that or

8 not, but -- yeah, I can't comment specifically. Don't

9 remember.

10 BY MR. FIATO:

11 Q Okay. Well, do you know what stroking is in

12 the building of a 19/2011?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Okay. Do you know, does Mr. Keigans disagree

15 or -- I'll just say disagree with the fact that Akai

16 Custom Guns strokes its guns?

17 A I couldn't comment on what he thinks.

18 Q Okay. I'm showing you what's marked as

19 Exhibit 16.

20 At the bottom it appears to be a Facebook

21 post; correct?

22 A That's what it appears to be, yes.

23 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 16 was marked for

24 identification.)

25 BY MR. FIATO:

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1 Q And it appears to being made by Mr. Bobby

2 Keigans?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Okay. Can you read what Mr. Keigans posted?

5 A It says, "Both Dame and Micosh [phonetic] are

6 trolls. Shady Horowitz is a shyster. I don't know

7 about your friends nor your enemies, but not one of

8 these three can be trusted by anyone. I've seen what

9 they do to their friends."

10 Q Have you ever seen that post, sir?

11 A Not that I recall.

12 Q Do you know why he's saying that?

13 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

14 A No, I do not.

15 BY MR. FIATO:

16 Q Okay. You've known Mr. Bobby Keigans for 15

17 years, and you've collaborated with him on numerous

18 projects over the years, and he's never told you why

19 he's saying that Shay Horowitz is shady and is a

20 shyster?

21 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form.

22 A No. I'm very well aware that Bobby Keigans

23 does not like Mr. Horowitz or his business dealings.

24 BY MR. FIATO:

25 Q Okay.

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1 A But I don't follow anything on the Internet,

2 so I couldn't comment on this specific thing.

3 MR. FIATO: You're smart. I wish I didn't

4 have to follow anything on the Internet either.

5 BY MR. FIATO:

6 Q So clearly Bobby Keigans doesn't like

7 Mr. Horowitz?

8 A Yes.

9 Q It doesn't make him shady, though -- doesn't

10 make Mr. Horowitz shady, just means Mr. Keigans doesn't

11 like him; correct?

12 MR. BENFORD: Object to form.

13 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

14 A No. If you've had guns that Mr. Horowitz

15 doesn't fix to the satisfaction of the owner and you

16 have to go to another gunsmith, I believe that's what he

17 would think he was being shady for.

18 BY MR. FIATO:

19 Q You testified earlier that you had seen guns

20 produced by Akai Custom Guns that had poor fitting.

21 Who were the owners of those guns?

22 A I don't know who it owners are.

23 Q You can't tell me one person that had an Akai

24 Custom gun that wasn't fit property?

25 A Not specifically, no.

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1 Q You testified earlier that you knew gunsmiths

2 that worked on Akai Custom guns that were -- didn't have

3 proper barrel fit.

4 Who are the gunsmiths?

5 A One of the gunsmiths would have been Bobby

6 Keigans.

7 Q Bobby Keigans.

8 Okay. And what did he tell you?

9 A I don't recall any specifics.

10 Q How many guns did Bobby Keigans repair that he

11 claims that Akai didn't fit property?

12 A I don't know.

13 Q When did he repair any gun from Akai Custom

14 Guns?

15 A I don't know specifically.

16 Q So all you have is what Bobby Keigans tells

17 you he did to an Akai Custom gun; correct?

18 MR. BENFORD: Objection; form, misstates prior

19 testimony.

20 A No. One of the pistols I saw that Akai had

21 built was at Bobby Keigans' shop in Georgia.

22 BY MR. FIATO:

23 Q Okay. And do you know, before Bobby Keigans

24 worked on that pistol, did another gunsmith work on that

25 pistol?

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1 A I do not know.

2 Q Do you know if the barrel was the original

3 barrel installed by Akai Custom Guns or not?

4 A I do not know.

5 Q So you don't know anything -- so when you say

6 that Mr. Horowitz and Akai Custom Guns didn't fit a

7 barrel, you don't even know if that was the original

8 barrel that was installed, do you?

9 A I assume it was, being that that's what the

10 customer said, and what Keigans said the customer told

11 him.

12 Q Okay. So you assume based on the hearsay of

13 Bobby Keigans from the hearsay of what another customer

14 said to him?

15 MR. BENFORD: Object to form.

16 MR. ROBINSON: Join.

17 A I suppose that would be correct.

18 BY MR. FIATO:

19 Q So you have no personal knowledge of whether

20 or not that was the original barrel; correct?

21 A Correct.

22 MR. FIATO: Okay. Give me a minute, sir.

23 I'll show you what we're gonna mark as

24 Exhibit 17.

25 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 17 was marked for

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1 identification.)

2 BY MR. FIATO:

3 Q Do you see this, sir.

4 A I do.

5 Q Who's the individual whose picture you see

6 there, sir?

7 A It's Bobby Keigans.

8 Q And there's a -- what appears to be a 2011

9 pistol there, isn't that correct, sir?

10 A Yes, that's what it appears to be.

11 Q Okay. And can you tell from that picture, is

12 that one of your pistols?

13 A I can not tell.

14 Q Can you tell if it's a C&K pistol or not, sir?

15 A From that picture, no.

16 Q Okay. And it says, "Myths about stroking a

17 2011 pistol;" correct?

18 A Yes.

19 Q So this is a snapshot that appears to be of a

20 YouTube video; correct?

21 A Yes.

22 Q August 7th, 2014; right?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And were you doing business with Mr. Keigans

25 at that time?

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1 A Most likely, yes.

2 Q Okay. And do you know, was C&K Arms in

3 existence at that time?

4 A I do not know if it was then or not.

5 Q Okay. And were you doing business with Akai

6 Custom Guns at that time?

7 A I was not.

8 Q Okay. You weren't selling parts to Akai

9 Custom Guns back in 2014?

10 A Not that I'm aware of.

11 Q Okay. But you were doing business with him in

12 2012; correct?

13 A Yes. And I don't believe I did business with

14 him any time soon after that.

15 Q Okay. When was the first time after 2012 that

16 you did business with Shay Horowitz or Akai Custom Guns?

17 A As I recall, it would have been 2019.

18 Q 2019 was the only time?

19 A That I can recall, yes.

20 MR. FIATO: Okay. Just give us a second.

21 BY MR. FIATO:

22 Q Sir, you testified earlier that you

23 had -- that Shay Horowitz had a reputation for being

24 shady, and you had seen posts on the Internet going back

25 about ten years; correct, sir?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q And that was his reputation in the community?

3 A From the people that I talked to, yes.

4 Q So why is it that if you didn't do business

5 with him to -- till 2019, some nine years later you

6 decided it was okay to do business with him?

7 A He didn't ask to buy any parts from us until

8 2019.

9 Q But he had a shady reputation, according to

10 your testimony.

11 Why would you do business with somebody that

12 had a shady reputation.

13 A Because I don't hold grudges against people,

14 and if he wanted to buy some parts from me, I was happy

15 to go ahead and sell him some parts.

16 Q What grudge would you have with him?

17 A That he talked bad about in 2012 about the

18 compensators and said that I stole his design.

19 MR. FIATO: Okay. Thank you for your time.

20 MR. ROBINSON: John, do you have any

21 follow-ups?

22 MR. BENFORD: No, I do not.

23 RECROSS EXAMINATION

24 BY MR. ROBINSON:

25 Q Just a couple from me, sir.

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1 You were asked about the barrels -- the two

2 barrels that you returned to KKM for inspection and

3 testing, and I want to make sure I understood that

4 discussion you had with Mr. Fiato.

5 Did you indicate that those two barrels were

6 bullseye barrels?

7 A I believe the material to be of the other

8 style for the bullseye style barrels, yes.

9 Q What made you reach that conclusion?

10 A That they were of a different sheen than the

11 other barrels. You could visually see the color of the

12 barrel was slightly different than other barrels.

13 Q Do you know where you purchased those two

14 barrels?

15 A I do not.

16 Q Okay. When you sent those barrels to KKM for

17 inspection and testing, did they tell you that they were

18 bullseye barrels?

19 A I don't remember if they did or not.

20 Q Did you ever ask KKM to verify whether they

21 were bullseye barrels?

22 A No. At the time I don't know that I knew that

23 they had two different types of steel, that was probably

24 when I was found out and was told by Luke that there was

25 two different styles that they made.

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1 Q Other than the sheen on those barrels, is

2 there any other -- anything else that caused you to

3 conclude that those two barrels were bullseye barrels?

4 A Testing them on the hardness tester made me

5 assume that they were different.

6 Q After you tested them on your hardness tester

7 you sent them to KKM for testing; correct?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And KKM in turn had them tested by Nevada Heat

10 Treating; correct?

11 MR. YEE: Objection; form.

12 MR. FIATO: I don't think that was his

13 testimony.

14 MR. ROBINSON: I'm asking him if that's his

15 understanding.

16 BY MR. ROBINSON:

17 Q Do you understand that KKM in turn had those

18 barrels tested at Nevada Heat Treat?

19 A That was not my interpretation.

20 Q Okay. What did you understand to be the case?

21 A That they tested them in house on their new,

22 very expensive hardness tester.

23 Q When you -- did KKM advise you of the results

24 of the hardness testing?

25 A They did.

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1 Q And do you recall if the hardness was above 40

2 Rockwell?

3 A I believe it was above 40. I know whatever it

4 was, they said it was acceptable hardness to use.

5 Q Okay. So you believe it was about 40.

6 Do you recall if it was 42 or higher?

7 A I don't recall the exact numbers.

8 Q Okay. Are -- did the -- when the barrels were

9 sent back to you, based upon the hardness testing

10 results that KKM had reported to you, did you understand

11 those barrels to be acceptable for use in competition

12 shooting firearms?

13 A Yes.

14 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. Those are all the

15 follow-up questions I have. Thank you, sir.

16 RECROSS EXAMINATION

17 BY MR. FIATO:

18 Q Just one quick one.

19 I believe you said you did not recall what the

20 hardness tasting results of those barrels were; correct?

21 A I don't recall the exact numbers, no.

22 Q So you can't say for certain that it was 40,

23 you just know that you had a conversation with

24 Mr. McIntire, and he said it was acceptable; correct?

25 A I believe it was in the 40s for sure, and that

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1 it was acceptable.

2 Q But you don't remember that specifically?

3 A I don't remember exactly what the numbers

4 were, no.

5 MR. ROBINSON: Object to the form.

6 MR. FIATO: Okay. Thank you.

7 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. That's it.

8 John, do you want to explain to your witness

9 his right to read or waive?

10 MR. BENFORD: Sure.

11 You have the right to read your deposition or

12 you can, you know, waive that right. We really

13 can't render any advice, because you're not

14 represented -- we don't represent you as counsel,

15 Mr. Cheely, we can't recommend to you whether or

16 not you should read or you should waive, but you do

17 have the right to read your deposition.

18 But you will need to make that decision today

19 and indicate to the court reporter whether you

20 would like to read your deposition.

21 THE WITNESS: I'll waive my right to read it.

22 THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Mr. Benford, did

23 you need to order?

24 MR. BENFORD: Yeah. Regular service, please.

25 THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Anybody need a

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1 copy?

2 MR. FIATO: We'll let you.

3 THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Going off record.

4 (Deposition concluded at 3:44 p.m.)

5

6

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1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH

2

3 STATE OF FLORIDA:

4 COUNTY OF POLK:

5

6 I, FILIZ SERDIO, Notary Public, State of Florida,

7 certify that MATTHEW CHEELY appeared before me via Zoom

8 videoconference on October 19, 2022, and was duly sworn.

9 Signed this 8th day of November 2022.

10

11

12

13

14 <%22679,Signature%>

 FILIZ SERDIO

15 Court Reporter

 Notary Public, State of Florida

16 COMMISSION NO.: GG311459

 COMMISSION EXPIRES: May 24, 2023

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2

STATE OF FLORIDA:

3

COUNTY OF POLK:

4

5 I, FILIZ SERDIO, Notary Public, certify that I was

6 authorized to and did stenographically report the virtual

7 Zoom videoconference deposition of MATTHEW CHEELY; that a

8 review of the transcript was not requested; and that the

9 foregoing transcript, pages 5 through 190, is a true and

10 accurate record of my stenographic notes.

11 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,

12 employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am

13 I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorneys or

14 counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially

15 interested in the action.

16

17 Dated this 8th day of November 2022.

18

19

20

21

 <%22679,Signature%>

22 FILIZ SERDIO

 Court Reporter

23

24

25

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&

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2004 66:23 67:5

2005 12:20 66:23

2010 12:20 74:17

177:10

2011 9:2,5,20

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2012 71:11 79:2

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2015 150:10

2017 17:12 152:1

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2018 17:12 150:9

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40s 188:25

416 25:21 27:18

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absence 175:3

absolutely 39:3

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131:7,15

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188:4,11,24

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101:4,7

accidently 21:7

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accuracy 105:16

118:6,19

accurate 54:5,16

55:20 56:13,20

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69:11 118:5

157:9 192:10

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accusations

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accuse 41:3 77:3

77:12

accused 62:8

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action 120:19

192:14,15

active 132:17

actively 133:3,13

activity 52:14

actual 168:17

175:8

added 44:17

addition 10:1

12:24 63:8 100:7

additional 22:18

addressing 152:7

admissions 12:23

admit 160:14,25

advice 128:15,16

189:13

advise 187:23

advised 128:7,9

affair 41:12

affirm 5:5

affirmed 5:13

afraid 141:11

agent 18:20,23

19:4 53:21

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41:14 47:12 71:9

79:7 97:23,23

102:4 129:22

133:1 170:7

171:18 177:7,12

177:18

agree 54:11 74:6

83:18,21 90:8,21

122:8 127:6

agreed 4:14

126:11 130:11

142:3,11 148:2

agreeing 127:5

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98:16

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43:22 44:4,7,9,22

49:8 51:2 54:1,14

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82:17 84:16 85:9

85:17 86:2,8 87:3

87:7,23 125:24

126:2 130:15,22

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142:22,25 143:3

143:20 144:23,24

145:5 146:13,18

147:4,13 148:3

160:18,20 165:10

165:15 166:2

168:23 169:12

178:15 180:20,23

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181:20 182:3,6

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129:11,13 130:16

130:23,25 131:16

131:25 142:17

alerted 53:21

alike 83:25 84:17

allegation 62:2

allegations 28:17

28:21,25 29:11

50:17 61:15

allege 37:15

allegedly 51:7

alleging 29:15

48:20

allow 6:7 71:3

96:1

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94:23

amateur 13:2,11

amended 61:13

61:14

america 164:12

ammunition 21:6

amount 107:15

109:10

annual 109:20

answer 6:8 23:23

37:23 48:16

80:16 81:22 82:9

84:5 178:6

answered 84:2

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52:16 65:14

67:12 89:14

99:19 116:11,14

146:2 170:5

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anymore 40:18

90:18 124:17

125:22 144:12

apart 89:15

appear 170:25

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191:7

appearing 2:5,10

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96:25 153:9,20

153:22,23 154:3

156:21,25 157:5

159:8 160:4

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area 114:22

167:20 168:12

arms 148:17,18

148:21,23 149:3

149:6,23 150:1,7

150:12,16,22,25

151:3,9,11,15,18

151:22 157:17

184:2

arranged 85:9

aside 35:5

asked 36:3,5

53:10 84:2 99:16

116:19 132:18,20

132:21 136:22

177:13 186:1

asking 28:25

46:16 54:15 66:5

70:20 71:2 99:2

99:15 110:14,19

157:7 187:14

aspect 63:17

assembled 32:9

113:11

assistance 157:8

associate 108:17

108:18

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assume 26:16,19

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140:10 145:13

147:7 152:11,12

162:15 182:9,12

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assumption

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attaches 95:23

attempt 54:20

attempted 169:1

attempting 50:16

attorney 66:4

192:12

attorneys 6:9,10

52:21 192:13

august 71:10

183:22

author 88:4

authorized 192:6

auto 152:23

available 100:20

158:25

avatar 76:12,18

avenue 2:8,13

awards 15:2

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20:18 25:3 41:15

43:25 44:9 47:23

48:8,14,19,22,24

49:2,8,12,15

57:23 58:9 60:16

118:25 150:14

165:18 179:22

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b

b 77:17,19

bachelor's 11:10

back 18:17 22:4

29:22 31:19

32:23 33:4,10

34:24 35:8,12,18

35:23 36:4,8

40:23,25,25 41:4

56:2,25 65:9 67:5

72:21,21 74:17

74:19 77:11 78:4

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115:4 116:23

120:1 122:22

123:14 124:10

125:16,22 131:12

131:25 132:6

133:1,22 134:7

134:12 138:21

171:3,24 176:19

184:9,24 188:9

backward 120:15

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89:6,11 185:17

bag 89:15,17

baker 167:19

bank 164:12

bar 11:7

barrel 13:18

17:25 18:16 21:3

21:9,14,16,19

22:4,5 24:12,19

24:22,24 25:12

25:24 26:14 27:9

27:13,22 28:1,5

31:12,20 32:3,5,8

32:21 33:3,4,5,17

33:20,22 34:1

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42:16,20 44:18

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102:21 103:1,21

103:22,25 104:1

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104:22,24 105:1

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105:15,17,18,21

106:2,6,7,8,10,14

106:15,17 111:16

111:25 112:2

113:8,9,10

114:13 115:6,8

115:11,12,13,16

116:20,21 119:25

120:2,9,13,14,19

120:20,21,24

121:1,16,17,19

126:5 128:10,22

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151:17,21 153:9

154:5,8 155:4

157:4,5 158:7,13

158:18 159:2

160:16,22 165:25

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168:2,4,4,11,18

168:21,25 169:5

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173:12,15,17,20

173:21,22 174:3

174:4,5,7,9,17

175:9 181:3

182:2,3,7,8,20

186:12

barrels 10:8,15

10:18,18,20,24

10:25 11:4,5,6

13:21,22 16:16

16:17,21,24 17:2

17:5,7,11,17,21

18:3,4 19:22 20:8

20:10,12,18,21

20:24 21:23,24

22:15,18,21,25

23:1,2,20 25:3,8

26:4,5,6,11,17

27:6 28:11,13,18

29:1,3,8,12,14,15

29:18 30:7,15,18

30:21,25 31:1,3,5

31:6,8,9,10,15,18

32:6,11,13,14,22

32:23 33:1,7,10

33:12 34:15,19

34:20,22 35:1,9

35:12,13,15,15

35:18,21,24

37:10,11,16,19

37:24,24 38:1,18

38:19,22 39:1,4,6

39:6,9,15,17 40:1

41:1 49:25 50:18

51:7 53:17 56:1,5

56:8,9,13,15,24

56:25 57:2,6,11

57:15,17,19,23

58:3,6,9,12 59:6

59:14,19 60:8,17

63:5,9 64:5,12,14

64:19,22,25 65:3

99:24,24 100:3

100:24 101:3,23

102:1,6,8,14

103:3,5,7,8 104:9

104:12 105:6

106:11,22 107:2

107:4,6 109:22

110:3,4,7,15

111:9,13,19

112:3,14,20,24

113:1,3,5,16,23

116:1,6,15,19,23

117:12,20,24

118:5,8 122:13

122:20,22,25

123:3,8,12,17,21

124:4,7,8,10

125:3,15,22

126:11 127:6,21

128:15 129:4,6

129:14 130:3,5

130:11,16,23

131:8,16,25

138:20 139:2

142:17 150:17,18

150:20 151:4,4

154:18,19,21

159:9 161:1

171:3,25,25

172:2,8,11,13,24

173:2 186:1,2,5,6

186:8,11,12,14

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based 54:20

55:17 59:18 61:7

61:22 63:3 81:7

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93:12,13,14,16

93:17 125:6

128:15 141:10

149:12 156:1

182:12 188:9

bashed 80:21

basically 5:25

15:19 80:5

basing 125:5

basis 63:23 82:10

109:20 149:7

batch 72:11

80:13

bathroom 65:21

battery 42:23

beach 2:14

bear 78:17 80:18

bedell 3:17 67:15

67:17 68:5,21,23

69:3,20 82:3,11

82:15 84:13

85:24 86:9 87:11

122:5

bedell's 82:6

beginning 22:23

begun 22:21

behalf 2:5,10,15

2:21 26:12

belief 30:18

believe 7:22 11:4

19:6,7,15 20:3

21:22,23 30:16

30:21 32:20 34:7

34:21 35:17,22

36:3,9 37:19

38:11,13,17,21

40:2 44:19 50:21

53:22 54:18

55:19 56:12,20

56:22 57:8 58:4,5

58:12,24 59:1,8

59:10,16 60:18

62:7 68:11 71:20

72:4,16 76:7 79:4

88:18 96:10,18

97:14 100:6

105:1 106:20

110:16,19 111:24

118:11,20 122:22

123:3 124:14

138:22,24 142:9

142:15 147:16,19

150:10 151:6

159:19 161:5

162:2,25 172:6

177:9 180:16

184:13 186:7

188:3,5,19,25

believed 39:1,5

53:17 55:23 64:7

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5:16,19 7:12

23:11 24:1,16

27:16 36:15

37:14 38:10

41:19 43:10 45:1

46:24 48:12,18

49:7,11 51:22

52:1,19 53:10

55:2,18 56:8 61:9

74:10 80:15

81:21 82:8,22

83:19 84:19 85:3

85:12,20 86:7,23

87:5 90:2,24

91:12 94:2 98:15

99:6,10,18

112:18 122:9

125:8 126:20

127:1,9,15,25

128:18,25 129:8

132:18,21 135:13

136:4,9 137:7

139:5,11 140:21

141:1 146:16,23

147:6,18,23

148:6,13 156:13

156:24 161:10

163:25 166:9,15

166:25 168:16

169:7,23 175:7

176:11 177:13

178:4 179:13,21

180:12 181:18

182:15 185:22

189:10,22,24

best 6:6 18:9

43:15 53:12

77:10 78:10,12

78:13

better 87:22

93:21

beyond 104:22

170:24

bigger 83:10

billed 138:6

139:17 140:1

bills 138:5 139:15

139:23

bins 112:25

birmingham 2:4

birth 6:18

bit 32:13 40:22

42:21 58:15

66:16 93:21

105:22 109:23

114:4,6 115:3

116:20 164:9

166:10 176:14

biz 134:17,25

blasted 114:7

115:4

blocked 162:4

blow 21:18

blows 174:3

blue 76:15,21

bobby 4:9,10

148:8,10,12,16

149:11 151:12

152:7 157:23

176:23 177:24

179:1,16,22

180:6 181:5,7,10

181:16,21,23

182:13 183:7

body 94:22

borkowski 146:8

bottom 114:14

178:20

bought 24:24

97:19 112:22

113:2 138:12,14

163:13,22 172:11

176:4,6,8

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box 172:7,11

bradley 1:9 2:24

51:13,16 52:2

89:2,4,23 108:7

108:10,12,14

132:3,9,25 133:2

133:5,9 136:17

136:21,22 137:3

168:4 170:14

171:13,16,21

brand 31:22

145:23,24 150:15

175:20

brass 153:1

breach 120:7

break 6:12,13

55:13 57:25

65:14,21 66:21

117:1 172:24

breakages 154:25

breaking 45:18

140:23 150:23

160:22

brian 81:2

brief 176:18

briefly 8:17 34:11

briley 11:7

bring 78:20

bristol 93:9

broke 155:10

broken 155:4

bsed 77:14

buddy 162:4

build 8:2 67:21

68:5,16,17,25

69:19 70:16 71:3

91:17 103:2

150:16 167:6

builders 26:1

building 8:22

25:8 41:7 66:22

66:24 70:22 71:4

144:3 178:12

builds 160:15

169:13

built 42:19 44:15

106:1 151:12

155:7 157:17

181:21

bulge 21:18

173:20 174:7

bulged 174:4

bulges 174:9

bull 104:1 105:8

105:12,17,21

bullet 21:14,15

54:11,14,23

55:10 56:4,17

57:22 60:7,13,22

61:3 173:7,10,11

173:12,22

bullseye 118:8,18

118:21,23,25

119:5,9,13 123:1

186:6,8,18,21

187:3

bunch 134:17,24

burden 6:2

bushing 45:14

104:24 105:1,9

105:14,18

business 22:13

34:18 39:19 40:4

40:11,13,18

49:13 54:24 55:3

61:4,17,22 62:6,7

62:11,22 63:3,11

63:24 69:21,24

70:23,24 71:4

77:10 78:14

88:22 101:15

108:16,18,19

109:17 124:17,22

125:6,14,21,23

126:1 129:5

141:9 142:22,24

143:2 149:23

179:23 183:24

184:5,11,13,16

185:4,6,11

butler 162:5,13

162:16 163:1

buy 39:22 68:10

77:4,21 112:4

124:7,12 176:2

185:7,14

buying 20:6

c

c 2:1 3:1 5:1 11:2

65:18 148:21,24

192:1,1

c&d 162:4,11

c&k 148:17 149:3

149:6,23 150:1,7

150:12,16,22,25

151:3,9,14,21

154:18,21,22

155:1,15 157:17

158:11 183:14

184:2

caliber 27:9

calibers 31:13

calibrated 31:25

call 9:2 42:23

53:15 54:3,15,17

54:19 73:22

88:14 104:2

106:8 114:12

122:3 160:6

171:6,7 176:19

called 18:20

21:17 44:9 92:6

94:25 97:3

110:16 112:11

116:6 124:6,12

145:18,19 147:15

148:17 171:8

calling 28:25

29:23 32:24

177:25

calls 53:23 61:19

100:8

camilla 149:20

canada 73:11

canadian 1:10

cao 165:1,15,19

capability 78:13

carbon 9:24

card 63:20

137:24 163:13,23

164:13

cardamone 2:12

65:19

cards 63:16

164:17

care 18:8 89:14

89:15 131:19

carrying 102:1

cartridge 152:20

153:2 173:10

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174:14,24

cartridges 119:12

case 5:21 10:12

21:8,15 22:8

106:20 137:2

140:18 169:5

171:21 172:19

187:20

caught 63:18

cause 21:9,15

46:6 78:5 105:15

105:16 120:24

121:4,17 168:10

174:7

caused 174:20

187:2

causes 44:19

cc 156:8

cci 152:23,24,25

celebrity 163:2

cell 60:23 61:1

certain 11:25,25

25:3,9,9 31:11

61:16 120:20

170:22 188:22

certainly 73:13

94:10 118:22

certificate 3:6,7

191:1

certify 191:7

192:5,11

cetera 46:7

163:15 173:25

challenge 14:10

chamber 21:9

174:17

championships

167:20 168:12

chance 111:8

changed 90:16

changes 81:10

82:4

changing 65:4

charge 21:2,4,5,7

137:24 152:20

172:25 173:3

charged 138:6

charges 138:8

140:3

charles 1:9 2:24

chat 30:2 171:9

chatting 20:5

cheap 77:15

cheaper 89:17

check 19:22

90:10 116:24

156:8

checked 26:6

cheely 1:13 3:2

3:14,20,23,24 4:1

4:3 5:12,17,19

6:17,18,20,24

7:16,22 8:4,9,15

8:19 9:1,4,11

10:1,2,5,8,14,18

10:20,23 11:6,9

12:5 14:1,19

16:15,17,20,23

17:4,11,16 21:24

25:17 26:1,5,12

26:20 27:1,5,20

28:3,4 37:25

38:21,25 39:4

52:19 53:9 54:4

54:23 55:3 56:5

57:23 58:9 60:8

60:22 61:3 66:3

78:18 87:9,18

88:23 92:23 93:8

93:23 94:11,14

95:14 96:24 97:7

97:12,20,24 98:1

102:14,17 105:23

106:12 107:19

110:21 117:10

134:7 143:5,21

148:21,23 151:24

161:16 176:13

189:15 191:7

192:7

chuck 51:13,16

52:2 89:1 108:7

108:10,12 132:2

168:4 171:12

citizen 1:10

ck 148:18,21

151:11,18

claim 36:10 60:3

89:13,24 129:11

154:14

claimed 55:7

59:22,25 62:24

111:16

claiming 81:9

88:12 154:1,3

claims 125:3

129:13 130:16,23

142:17 178:3

181:11

clarify 6:6

class 15:19

cleaned 35:7

114:1,7 115:2

clear 31:8 66:12

100:16 105:5

112:9 124:8

159:1

clearly 100:15

180:6

clients 118:8

clinton 103:17

close 65:10 70:5

closed 134:18

coding 140:9,10

140:13

cody 167:19

coffing 165:1

cole 2:13

collaborated

177:4 178:2

179:17

collaboration

149:21,23

collaborations

177:2

college 12:14

collide 120:20

color 168:20

186:11

coloring 168:19

combined 17:14

come 11:3 58:24

82:1 91:24 92:1

96:15 97:20

103:11 131:21,24

comes 83:11,12

115:2

coming 43:19

76:14 93:19

104:25 157:14,22

176:15

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comment 90:25

165:20 178:8,17

180:2

comments 47:19

commission

191:16,16

common 15:21

28:8

commonly 24:8

communicate

73:16,18 74:4

communication

3:11 74:17,18

86:20 87:2 100:7

138:11

communications

74:8 100:18,19

100:22,23 101:19

157:6

community 14:11

14:15,20 16:10

18:13 41:7,21

46:20 47:1,20

48:14,24 49:4,16

49:20 185:2

comp 77:2 78:3

78:25 79:1,19,20

81:9,20 85:9,10

85:16,17,17,24

85:24 86:2,2,8,9

86:10 87:7,12

88:14 90:13,21

91:9 118:23

119:1 152:23

compact 121:24

compacted 64:15

64:23 65:1

companies 63:20

company 1:4

6:21,23 18:7,8

19:12 62:11

63:18 67:11 92:6

95:5,19 102:20

103:16,18 104:12

112:11 131:22

134:18 135:2

140:10 145:18,19

147:15 148:10,12

148:17,18,19,20

149:1 151:15

152:25 157:12,14

166:1

compared 85:16

90:11,12

compensator

3:12,14,17 13:19

15:20 71:18,24

79:11,16,22,25

80:8,9,12,22 82:1

82:4,5,7,7,11,15

82:17,20 83:8

84:15,16,16,24

85:9 86:14 87:3,9

88:10,12

compensators

70:17,21 71:3,6

71:13,16,18 72:1

72:2,4,7,12,14,18

79:9,15 80:3,4,6

80:7,14 84:13

185:18

compete 14:13

competed 73:11

118:20 119:9

competing 67:8

68:8 74:20

competition 8:5,9

8:13 9:8 14:2,5

14:11,15,20,22

16:10 18:12

21:25 39:2,6,21

39:23 41:6,21

46:20,25 47:20

48:13,24 49:3,16

59:6,12 118:12

118:15 119:22

162:21 188:11

competitive

23:21 24:13,20

26:17 119:16

competitor

129:17 163:2

complaint 61:13

61:14

completely 115:1

complex 9:20

component 9:14

9:15

components 8:2,4

8:17 9:19 42:22

43:14 45:20

compromise 98:7

comps 77:9,15

81:8 83:16,25

84:6,7 85:17 90:7

computer 153:17

153:18 170:4

concealed 23:12

concept 96:16

concern 29:3

62:16

concerned 29:6,7

62:23 63:17 70:5

concerns 99:24

100:3 110:3

123:17

conclude 187:3

concluded 190:4

conclusion 186:9

conduct 14:5

61:17 63:11

confident 33:11

33:13,14

confidentiality

30:17

configuration

27:9

configurations

31:14

confirm 62:5

conforming

36:17

connected 192:14

connection 1:18

2:11,16 5:21 22:9

22:12,16,19,22

23:1,5,15,19

24:11,18,23

25:17 26:22,24

30:15 39:10,13

39:16,16,19 40:1

49:24 50:4,13,16

50:25 51:3,9,13

52:11 63:5,9

106:18 108:1,4

108:11 109:1,12

109:14 112:10,12

112:16 121:7,9

123:11 129:18

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130:5 131:7,15

131:17 132:7

133:1,6 145:8

150:5 161:14

170:6

connections 1:8

consider 14:19

16:9 55:14 61:2

108:14,16

considerations

61:7,8

considered 9:15

consist 14:12

consistent 55:1

constantly 63:15

consult 93:22

consulted 92:9

contact 19:5 20:1

20:4 27:3,4 28:4

97:25 98:19

136:16 151:8

158:9,10

contacted 20:3

26:21,24 70:20

98:23 99:3,9,11

99:23 136:22

147:13 151:10

contacting 71:2

99:20 117:11

146:13,17

context 127:13,22

contingency

165:16

continuation

163:11

continue 17:2,7

38:25 39:4,9,12

120:16

continues 38:22

120:15

continuing

164:23

contractor 12:15

contradiction

138:22

control 75:6

conversation

30:4 53:19 55:17

57:10 60:20 70:1

70:13 72:22 81:7

110:2 123:16

124:11 125:1

132:12 151:25

156:6 160:5,7

171:10,12,16,20

188:23

conversations

35:25 36:2 54:6

54:13 61:19

69:20 117:11,19

123:15 124:5

125:7 129:20

132:2 142:20

161:21 165:5,7

170:5

copied 82:6 89:12

copy 89:6,7,8,10

89:11,12 98:1

99:4 190:1

copying 70:9

80:22 91:16

93:25

corner 75:17,19

76:3 113:10

corporation 1:8,9

correct 7:4 9:8,11

14:2 16:4 28:21

29:12,16 31:6,9

33:2,17 38:23

45:24 54:18

56:10 67:22

68:12 70:10

71:11 72:12

74:25 76:3,9,19

76:22 78:4 80:8

80:22 81:16,20

87:24 88:4,9

89:25 90:18,22

94:18 95:25 96:4

97:8 99:9,25

101:6,24 102:6

102:15 103:22,23

103:25 104:6,7

104:23 105:10,11

105:21 106:15,23

107:2,7,8,10

108:7 110:4,8,24

111:5,13,16

112:22,23 113:2

113:19,24,25

114:19,20,22,23

115:9,10,14

116:7,22 117:14

118:13,16,19

119:11 120:3,8

120:12,17,22

121:18 122:2,10

122:17 123:18

124:7,13,18,23

128:3 134:10,13

135:3,18,19

136:7 137:21,24

139:12,17 140:1

140:2,4,14,19,20

141:12 142:8,12

143:15 144:20

145:5,12,20

149:3,13 150:2

152:1,17 153:7

153:14,21,24

154:11,14 155:20

155:25 156:4,8

156:20 157:18,19

157:24 158:4,14

159:3,10 160:23

162:19,21,25

163:2,15 169:21

171:25 172:13,14

173:1,7,12,18

174:11,22,23

175:6 176:13

177:15,20 178:21

180:11 181:17

182:17,20,21

183:9,17,20

184:12,25 187:7

187:10 188:20,24

correction

164:20

correctly 88:17

correspondence

4:4,6,7 143:8

cosmetic 43:9

counsel 4:16 5:11

66:5 86:22

189:14 192:12,14

country 73:13

county 7:13,15

7:18,19 191:4

192:3

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couple 6:1,3 65:9

67:25 129:22,23

133:1 162:24

171:11,14,18

185:25

course 11:13 54:1

68:4 145:12

court 1:1,16,19

5:3,9 65:23 75:3

75:7 87:13 117:7

140:25 189:19,22

189:25 190:3

191:15 192:22

cover 53:11

covered 103:2

120:8

crack 154:6

172:24

cracked 153:20

154:5,9,22 156:2

174:17

cracking 20:24

151:1

created 11:20

creativity 91:5

credit 63:16,20

137:24 163:13

164:13

criminal 52:13

cross 3:3,4 53:7

66:1

cryogenically

122:14

curiosity 77:2

currently 103:5

103:10 107:7

108:21 175:15

custom 1:4 6:24

7:16 8:5 19:3

43:21 55:3 66:4

82:3 88:23 94:11

94:14 97:12,20

97:24 98:1

102:15 106:12

107:20 125:24

126:2 130:15

131:8 143:21

144:24 145:5

146:13 147:14

148:3 160:18,20

165:10,15 168:23

169:12 178:16

180:20,24 181:2

181:13,17 182:3

182:6 184:6,9,16

customer 23:5,15

42:24 59:22,25

60:3 182:10,10

182:13

customers 22:3

28:3,10,12,24

37:1 46:11,15

59:18

customs 7:23 8:9

8:15,19 9:4,11

10:2,2,5,8,14,18

10:20,23 11:6

12:5 14:1,19

16:15,17,20,23

17:4,11,16 21:24

25:17 26:1,5,13

26:20 27:1,5,20

28:3,4 38:22,25

39:4

cut 7:9 86:13

89:19 100:14

115:23

cuts 46:4

cycle 173:13

cycled 173:13

d

d 5:1

dame 1:10 3:11

4:7 72:24,25 73:1

73:16 75:17,20

75:21 76:2,18,25

86:19 87:2

133:18,22,24

134:1,10,15,22

136:12,16,22

137:4,10,13

138:10 139:14,22

140:6 161:22

162:3 163:12

164:11,21 165:6

165:19 168:23

169:11 170:14

172:18,18,21

179:5

dame's 137:5

dan 91:4

date 1:14 6:18

19:10

dated 54:4 76:8

88:6 143:14

192:17

dawson 3:21

95:15,16,18

96:15 97:6,10,25

98:7,14,22 99:3

99:11,19

day 48:21,25 49:3

133:7,16 191:9

192:17

days 170:8

deal 23:6 138:16

dealer 106:22

dealings 54:25

125:2 179:23

deals 139:15,22

dealt 124:23

december 88:6

decent 116:25

decide 125:14

decided 63:11

138:24 185:6

decision 55:3

63:2 125:5,21

189:18

declined 137:24

163:13,23

decrease 105:16

defamatory

61:18,23 135:20

135:22

defaming 50:5

defaulted 164:11

defect 19:5 62:24

defective 18:16

20:18,20 23:2

28:18 29:1,4,12

29:15,19 30:18

30:21 35:6,10

36:10,17 39:1,17

50:18 51:7 55:7

55:25 56:1 62:17

defendant 1:18

2:10,15 5:21 22:7

53:2

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define 74:11

93:21

definitely 49:22

definition 58:19

deflection 33:5

33:18

deform 121:17,20

delrin 94:25 95:1

95:2,7 96:3,8

demand 51:6,17

52:3,9

demanded 51:2

demands 51:10

51:14

depends 173:25

depicted 97:13

deponent 4:17

deposed 171:22

deposition 1:13

5:22 37:22 53:1

66:17 122:5

170:3,6,10,11,20

170:22,25 171:1

171:21 172:16,19

189:11,17,20

190:4 192:7

depth 105:2

derive 149:5

157:16

derogatory 47:7

describe 43:22

46:19 51:17 52:3

52:9 76:12,13

78:24 84:11

92:23 102:19

103:19 105:25

160:12,14 161:19

described 61:20

62:4

describing 54:3

design 11:11,13

44:21 67:22 70:6

72:7 77:3,13

79:18 80:12,22

81:19,23,24

82:10 83:6,7 86:9

89:13,16,24 91:9

91:16,24 92:1,4,7

92:9 93:11,20

99:20 185:18

designed 14:1

designs 80:10

destroy 21:3,10

21:19

destruct 122:7

determine 24:6,8

determined 26:13

33:8 62:21

detroit 12:7,8,11

12:13,19,22

66:18

developed 81:9

developing 81:19

development

93:2

di 160:9

diameter 45:9,13

103:25 104:6,22

105:1

dicker 2:8

diesel 12:7,8,11

12:13,19,22

66:18

difference 85:1,5

85:8,14 86:2

113:3

differences 85:24

different 11:19

15:13,14 17:25

24:23 31:13

37:11 42:7 58:13

58:13 63:16

73:13 79:23 80:7

80:9 82:11,13,14

83:6,12 85:18

86:9,12,13 90:7

90:11,13 94:19

101:15 105:6,7

107:9,19,23

113:5,6 117:25

118:3,15 122:23

155:7 186:10,12

186:23,25 187:5

dig 136:17

digging 134:16

136:13

dimension 31:12

65:5

dimensions 71:25

77:13 90:17

92:15

dimples 57:2

direct 3:3 5:15

138:22

directly 12:16

24:24 61:17

112:4,15 113:5

130:6

disagree 83:3,5

178:14,15

disconnect

107:18

discredit 136:18

166:13,18

discuss 59:4

116:17 129:11,13

170:13,17,19,25

discussed 53:15

56:8 61:8,9

116:18 170:15

discussing 146:13

discussion 28:16

47:14 186:4

discussions 60:19

disengages

120:14

dishonest 136:7

161:3,8

disparaging

49:15,19

distinguish 85:1

85:4,7

distributors

123:8 144:18

district 1:1,1

division 1:2 15:5

15:11,13,22,23

divisions 15:12

15:15,16 16:1

162:24 163:9

dlc 140:7,8

document 53:25

54:1,2,11 55:10

56:4 57:22 60:7

61:11,12 75:5,5

75:11 76:5 143:7

161:17

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documents 65:9

134:1 136:21

158:23

doing 40:10,13

40:21 42:5 63:23

88:22 148:2

166:18 183:24

184:5,11

dollar 107:15

dollars 51:2,3

dot 15:20

double 21:2,4,5,7

172:25 173:3

drawing 71:21,22

71:23 88:10

due 21:1 44:20

54:24 160:22

duly 5:13 191:8

duty 25:12

119:20

e

e 2:1,1 3:1 5:1,1

7:21,21,21 11:2

16:7,7 19:14

192:1,1

earlier 13:25

16:15 29:10 36:1

61:8 74:18 80:20

86:16 96:4 99:22

111:11 112:9

113:22 114:16

124:4 141:8

144:22 145:4

172:23 175:11

180:19 181:1

184:22

early 49:23 97:15

97:17

earn 109:21

easier 95:25

121:19

east 2:19

eastern 11:11

ed 66:5

edelman 2:8

edmund 2:2

education 11:9

66:17

effect 44:22

159:14 177:20

either 9:4 21:13

34:24 35:2 53:5

65:16 74:8 89:14

94:23 113:1,22

120:21 147:3

166:4 173:13

180:4

eject 21:13

173:10

electronics

134:19 135:5

eliminates 105:14

105:15

else's 89:20

elser 2:7 5:20

email 4:3 100:2

110:13,18,19,23

111:4

employed 161:15

employee 192:12

192:13

enabled 75:7

enemies 179:7

engaged 118:8

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engineer 12:23

engines 12:9

engraving 113:4

113:6,8,18

enos 81:2

enter 98:6

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137:1

entitled 61:12

176:20

epacs 2:3

equipment 15:13

error 21:1,20

96:1

especially 41:1

55:25

esquire 2:2,2,7,12

2:17,18

essentially 52:23

estimate 17:10

et 46:7 163:15

173:25

evaluated 125:16

evaluation 32:24

56:3 62:20

events 14:13

eventually 72:11

89:17 111:12

165:21

everybody 65:14

89:19 173:4

exact 188:7,21

exactly 17:22

19:9,20 32:3

34:25 46:1 67:7

72:19 79:6

101:20 124:2

164:1 189:3

exaggeration

164:6,9

examination 3:3

3:3,4,4,5 5:15

53:7 66:1 185:23

188:16

example 6:25

20:24 25:21

42:18 109:20

examples 8:18

13:15

excellent 18:7

excerpt 37:21

exclusive 102:13

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exclusively 16:2

102:14 106:17,22

150:19

excuse 90:14

100:14 124:19

176:10

exhibit 3:10,12

3:13,15,16,18,19

3:21,22,24 4:1,2

4:4,5,7,8,10

86:21,24,25 87:4

87:6,8,10,11,12

87:15 92:19,20

93:4,5 95:10,11

96:20,21 97:11

97:13 102:18,22

105:24 106:3

110:22 111:1

134:8,9 143:6,11

146:20 151:24

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expanded 174:18

expect 25:11

62:19 174:16

expensive 33:2,16

187:22

experience 12:24

12:25 13:14 18:1

21:22 23:4 25:16

27:1 45:11,16

expired 92:2,3

expires 191:16

explain 6:2,6

29:18 55:22 97:4

113:7 189:8

explained 60:13

explaining 112:1

exploding 20:24

expound 40:22

44:25

expressed 44:6

expressly 4:17

extent 152:8

extremely 21:8

f

f 192:1

facebook 3:15,24

4:1,9 80:25 81:4

86:15 87:10,18

88:4 102:20

159:14 160:4,6

160:10 161:21

162:4 178:20

facility 29:9

31:18 68:11

fact 99:2 139:1

140:18 143:23

144:3 173:18

178:15

factor 83:7

152:11,13

factory 103:11

114:8

factual 99:5

fail 46:6 173:2

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151:15,18,22

154:19 156:18

158:11 174:21

failing 45:16,20

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failure 64:8

173:19 174:16

failures 155:6

172:24

fair 9:3 10:5

16:23 41:9 74:6

78:1 113:21

fall 59:5 89:15

164:18,19

false 38:5,11,15

50:21,22 135:24

135:25

falsely 62:8

familiar 10:11

22:7,11 24:2

25:18,20,22 26:2

26:9 28:10,12

165:3

far 8:17 9:19

11:19 13:4 16:20

18:11 22:25

25:23 43:6

119:13 154:9

173:9 174:7

175:17

farther 74:17

90:6

fashion 112:25

fbi 52:17 132:17

133:3,13

february 76:8,25

134:12

federal 9:16 69:6

feels 60:24

felt 62:17 70:9

80:21 105:20

fiato 2:2 3:4,5 7:8

7:11 23:9,22

24:14 27:14

36:13 37:12 38:7

38:9 41:17 43:8

44:24 49:9 51:20

51:24 53:1,6 59:7

61:24 64:1,9,16

65:6,13,18,20

66:2,3,8,10 74:13

75:2,4,9,10 78:17

78:21 80:18,19

81:25 82:12,24

83:22 84:4,22

85:6,15,22 86:11

86:17,25 87:7,17

90:4 91:2,14

92:18,22 93:4,7

94:4 95:9,13

96:19,23 98:18

99:8,13,21

102:24 106:5

108:22,23 111:3

112:19 117:3,5,9

121:8,11,13,15

122:11 123:6

125:10 126:9,14

126:22 127:3,12

127:18 128:2,6

128:13,20 129:2

129:10 130:19

131:4,13 132:20

132:24 135:16,23

136:6,11 137:9

139:7,13,20

140:24 141:3,7

141:23,24 143:13

145:2,3 146:19

147:1,9,20 148:1

148:7,15 152:5

155:23 156:15

157:1 159:23

160:2 161:6,12

161:25 164:3,10

166:11,19 167:1

168:22 169:10,17

170:1 175:10

176:10,17,22

178:10,25 179:15

179:24 180:3,5

180:18 181:22

182:18,22 183:2

184:20,21 185:19

186:4 187:12

188:17 189:6

190:2

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filiz 1:19 6:11

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financial 63:17

financially

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find 89:19 165:20

fine 171:3

finish 6:7 35:7

43:4 114:2,5,8

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finishes 18:7

fire 76:14 173:5

173:11

firearm 6:21,22

9:15 21:10 42:19

95:19 157:17

firearms 42:11

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fired 21:2 120:11

fires 173:14

firing 29:22

175:4

firm 5:20

first 5:13 17:20

19:4 34:19 35:19

41:12 47:10 48:3

54:14 58:8 61:12

61:14 70:12 77:8

83:11 97:18

103:21 110:2,16

120:23 156:19

173:21,22 177:4

184:15

fit 42:20,21 43:21

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182:6

fitting 42:16,16

43:14 115:23

180:20

fittings 42:18

five 12:17 17:6

33:7,20 41:3

65:13,20 102:3

107:22 114:16

117:1

fix 180:15

flat 115:4

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flattest 88:14

flexible 65:4

florida 1:1,4,20

2:9,14,20 191:3,6

191:15 192:2

flute 104:4

fluted 103:3,8,12

103:12,14

flutes 104:17

105:2

fluting 103:15,20

103:21 104:13,20

folded 64:20

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follow 52:23

180:1,4 185:21

188:15

followed 81:7

following 64:5

follows 5:14

foot 33:3,18 34:2

114:4,10,13,14

114:17 120:9,21

forced 63:19

forces 12:1

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form 23:9,22

24:14 27:14

36:12,13 37:12

38:7,8 41:17 43:8

44:24 46:22

48:10,15 49:5,9

51:19,20 59:7

61:24 64:1,9,16

65:6 74:10 80:15

81:5,21 82:8,21

83:19,20 84:18

85:2,11,19 86:6

90:1,2,23,24

91:11,12 94:2

96:11 98:15 99:6

99:10,16,18

112:18 118:12,15

122:9 123:2

125:8,21 126:7

126:12,19,25

127:8,15,16,24

128:5,11,17,24

129:7 131:2,9

132:18 135:13,21

136:3,8 137:7

139:4,10 140:21

146:15,23 147:5

147:6,18,22,23

148:5,6,13

156:12,24 159:21

159:25 161:4,9

163:24 164:8

166:8,14,15,24

166:25 168:15

169:7,8,14,22

175:7 178:4

179:13,21 180:12

180:13 181:18

182:15 187:11

189:5

formed 150:7

forming 12:3,5

17:16

forms 97:7

100:23

fort 1:2

forth 78:18

forums 81:2

forward 120:17

120:25 133:25

found 37:25

186:24

four 97:23 165:8

fourth 88:25

frame 8:20 9:10

9:13,14,23 53:18

53:24 54:9 92:4

97:19 120:10

124:14 149:14

frames 43:12

free 129:5

freedom 148:9

frequently 41:16

41:22

friend 55:11,15

60:23 108:14

friends 61:2

67:19,20 108:12

179:7,9

frivolous 52:9

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front 86:5,8

105:3 106:9,9

fuck 168:7,7

fucked 160:15

full 6:15 12:16

89:5 164:17

functioning 43:7

further 55:3 90:9

192:11

g

g 5:1 16:7

gain 26:22

gap 168:17

general 11:18

23:4 34:18 36:18

53:24 101:15

116:18

generally 42:10

46:5 58:14 59:2

georgia 149:17

149:18,19,20

181:21

getting 29:21

157:8,14,23

171:4 172:7

gg311459 191:16

give 5:6 13:15

33:5 65:8 66:11

78:3 86:17 129:4

166:16 170:20

176:14 182:22

184:20

given 172:19

gives 138:10

giving 129:5

166:20 171:21

glenn 6:17

glitched 130:18

141:22 145:1

155:21

go 8:22 9:4 46:13

53:6 66:25 67:1

68:1,11,16 74:17

78:18 80:16

81:22 82:9 88:25

121:4 123:14

132:25 133:6,25

137:13 138:21

175:19 178:6

180:16 185:15

goes 6:8 15:20

95:22 122:4,6

going 19:23

35:23 40:14,24

62:22 65:23 68:6

69:21 73:20,20

77:24 86:15,18

87:18 117:7

120:6,7 130:1

134:9 141:5

157:11 165:20

184:24 190:3

gonna 6:2 26:16

37:21 53:12

61:14 78:18

85:18 88:8,25

89:4 95:9 96:19

102:18 105:4,23

110:21 124:17

129:4 134:7

143:5 155:8

161:16 171:22

182:23

good 5:17,18 18:4

18:14 23:6 41:8

45:12 46:10,23

57:14 62:7 63:14

77:20 78:3,14

109:14 117:2

121:2 140:24

141:1,3 147:2

158:19,21 163:8

163:10 166:21

167:11 168:10

gotten 152:9

government 9:16

grade 60:5

117:22

grains 152:19

grandmaster

15:5,6,9,14

162:23 163:8

great 18:7 139:19

grip 3:18,20 8:20

91:25 92:6,6,7,9

92:10,13,25 93:1

93:2,10,14,14,16

93:17,19,22,23

94:1,1 143:18

144:9 146:20

147:8,14

grips 54:15 91:20

91:22 92:8 93:9

124:12 138:12,14

143:21,24 144:4

144:16 147:4

163:13

group 165:14

grudge 185:16

grudges 185:13

guess 13:8 20:16

88:13 108:6

109:2

guidelines 6:3

gun 9:17 10:2,6

23:20 25:2,8,8,16

26:1,21 27:3,6,24

28:1,13 39:15,25

41:7,13 42:3,4,8

42:9,24 43:6,21

44:19 45:20,24

45:25 46:2 59:24

60:3 66:21 68:5

83:24 94:1 107:9

113:23 120:11

121:4 122:1,4,6,6

143:21 144:3

145:18,19 152:9

153:7 155:4

156:18,23 157:9

158:7,11,14

160:15 162:18

167:13,18,19

173:5 174:3

180:24 181:13,17

guns 1:4 7:16,23

8:1,2,4 12:25

13:5,16,25 14:16

16:18,20,21,24

19:3 20:9 39:5

41:16,22,24

42:13 43:12,22

44:4,7 46:9,12

55:3 59:15,17,21

60:14 66:4,22,24

67:22 69:25 70:5

94:14 97:12,20

97:24 98:1

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gunsmith 13:1,2

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46:13 67:1,3,12

67:14 180:16

181:24

gunsmithing

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gunsmiths 41:15

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181:1,4,5

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6:24 87:9 88:23

94:11 106:12

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guy 140:7,8

160:13

guys 65:16

h

h 11:2

half 163:12 164:4

hand 5:4,10

43:20 75:16,19

76:2 173:13

handed 116:13

handling 127:22

hangs 114:13

happen 137:2

happened 34:22

68:14 98:11

102:11 151:6

152:8,10 163:21

happening 176:9

happens 91:4

happy 53:5 66:15

185:14

hard 25:12 89:18

119:16,21 177:11

hardness 24:2,5,6

24:8,12,24 25:4,9

25:10,14 26:13

26:17 27:21 28:1

31:17 32:12 33:9

33:9 34:1 114:5,6

115:25 116:19

117:13 119:18

172:9 175:23

187:4,6,22,24

188:1,4,9,20

hark 105:23

head 66:7,12

hear 121:13

heard 37:15

43:16,22 46:25

47:10,16,19 52:8

116:2 122:5

hearing 81:12,13

154:25

hearsay 182:12

182:13

heat 187:9,18

heavier 44:18

105:17

held 111:25 169:3

hello 132:8

help 130:22

136:23 137:4

hereto 4:15

het 34:11

high 13:13 21:8

118:19

higher 44:20

86:14 188:6

highest 15:6

highly 16:14

hillsdale 7:7,8,10

7:14,15

hire 12:16

history 126:6

132:14 139:15,23

hit 109:14 120:23

138:2

hoffer 159:16

hold 6:25 15:4,8

40:25 108:22

112:1 185:13

holding 135:5

holes 79:24 80:2

80:4,6,7

hollywood 163:1

163:6

honest 135:10

161:8

honesty 46:21

47:8,21

honor 165:16

hood 29:21 31:19

32:2 33:4 35:18

56:9 57:3 64:23

115:7,9,18,21

120:24

horowitz 1:5 2:23

3:15 20:1,7,16

28:17 29:5,11,23

30:23,24 35:20

37:18,22 38:3,5

38:12,14 47:10

47:24 48:20

49:13,15,25 50:5

50:17 51:2 52:13

52:16 53:16 54:2

54:3,6,12,16 57:6

58:2 60:11,19

61:18,22 62:6,23

63:3 66:4 70:13

70:16,20 71:2,14

71:17 72:3,7,12

72:14 78:4 79:13

80:11,20 81:8,19

82:7 88:1,3,9,20

89:24 90:21

99:23 101:10

110:3,12 123:15

124:6,12 125:2,6

125:14,15 126:4

126:18 127:5,13

127:20,22 128:8

128:14,21 129:3

129:21 130:11

132:14,16 133:2

133:7,10,13,16

133:19 134:2

135:12 136:18

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184:16,23

horowitz's 37:22

46:19 47:20 52:3

57:10 63:8 80:8

hours 176:20

house 19:13,16

164:16 187:21

hudson 7:17,18

huh 66:12

hundred 16:22

107:24 155:5

hundreds 155:7

hurt 136:1

hybrid 106:8,11

106:14 143:19

i

ice 3:21 95:15

icon 76:11

idea 45:12 70:14

identification

87:16 92:21 93:6

95:12 96:22

102:23 106:4

111:2 143:12

152:4 161:24

178:24 183:1

idpa 14:7

ignited 174:19

ignoring 152:7

ii 175:24,25

imitation 81:5

91:4

implied 177:18

imply 161:5,7

169:12,20

implying 136:7

161:2

important 23:13

126:24 127:7,10

impression 50:8

50:15 52:12

inaccurate 33:6

56:23

include 11:21

13:5 14:16 27:5

40:7

included 27:11

including 6:10

26:4 40:1 103:2

income 149:5,7,9

157:16

incorporated

112:10 145:22

increase 45:15,17

45:19,23

indentation

115:3,20,22

indentations 57:3

114:21,25

independent

126:18 127:21

130:12

indicate 6:13

32:10 33:25 78:2

122:12,24 186:5

189:19

indicated 122:25

176:12

indicating 22:4

140:12

indication 175:4

individual 1:5,9

1:10 19:11 183:5

individually

26:12

indulging 77:1

industry 18:18

30:1 63:15,22

66:22 83:24 89:5

89:18 94:1

162:19

infinity 3:18 92:6

92:7,25 145:16

145:18,19,22,25

146:3,5

influence 81:23

inform 68:23

information

23:12 26:22 27:5

27:8,11,12,17,21

27:25 136:17

137:4 165:10,14

166:17,21 171:8

informed 33:3

53:16 126:4

initial 123:16

initially 54:19

68:7

initiated 54:15,16

inquired 156:3

insert 3:21,23

95:15,20 96:16

97:7,7,11,12,21

97:22,25 98:19

insertion 95:24

inserts 94:21,25

96:25

inside 95:22

120:2,7,9 167:23

inspect 41:4

inspected 42:19

inspection 63:10

141:15 186:2,17

instagram 53:23

100:7,22

installations

13:19

installed 182:3,8

instances 137:23

instant 159:12

insufficient 24:12

173:6

insurance 18:20

18:23 19:4,12,13

19:16 52:6 53:21

intended 44:21

intention 68:19

interacts 46:3

interested 192:15

interfaced 46:4

intern 12:14

internet 47:23

48:2,5,9,20,25

74:1,9 77:12

80:21,25 81:15

130:18 137:14

139:19 141:21

145:1 155:21

159:8 165:10,15

177:21 180:1,4

184:24

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interpret 50:4

51:18 52:4,5

165:23

interpretation

51:8 98:25 99:1

161:1 168:20

187:19

inverted 115:12

investigate 18:22

investigated

52:17 133:3,13

investigation

132:17

involve 11:13

involved 48:20

130:15 133:7,10

133:16,19 134:2

157:11,13

involves 45:5

ish 164:12

issue 20:2 43:9

53:21 60:16

116:15 117:17

issues 23:16 37:1

43:2,11 44:3

53:17 101:16

130:22

j

james 162:14,15

162:18

jesus 51:21

jhp 156:7

job 77:11 78:3,10

78:15

jobs 13:18

joe 146:8

john 2:7 4:4,6

5:19 16:6 51:14

129:14,16 143:7

150:11 157:7

158:3 159:19

185:20 189:8

join 82:22 84:19

85:3,12 86:7

126:20 127:1,9

127:25 128:18,25

129:8 136:4,9

139:5,11 146:16

156:13 161:10

163:25 166:9

168:16 169:23

182:16

join.4 85:20

joint 126:11,18

127:6,21 131:1

joke 162:5,11

jump 53:5

k

k 148:24 164:12

kart 11:7

keep 6:3 30:17

63:16 141:5

164:21

keigans 4:9,10

148:8,10,12,16

148:23 149:11

151:20 157:15

176:23,24 177:24

178:14 179:2,4

179:16,22 180:6

180:10 181:6,7

181:10,16,21,23

182:10,13 183:7

183:24

kentucky 1:8,9

1:10,10

kevin 2:18 53:9

117:3

kind 6:25 7:9

8:24 25:7 31:21

33:20 43:4 44:2

46:9 52:13 54:10

76:15 80:4,5 96:8

96:9 106:6,6

131:19 155:19

kinds 31:8

kiser 2:18

kissane 2:13

kkm 1:8 2:21

10:11,14,18 11:8

13:22 16:16,17

16:21,24 17:5,11

17:17,21 18:2,11

18:15 19:21

20:13,14,18,20

20:23 21:23 22:3

22:15 23:1,19

24:11,12,18,18

24:22,25 26:5,11

26:16 28:18 29:1

29:3,8,11,15 30:6

30:18 31:6 32:23

32:25 33:11 34:4

34:6 35:13,16,21

36:4 37:9,15,19

37:23 38:1,18,22

38:25 39:6 40:15

40:21,24 49:23

49:25 50:4,13,15

50:17 51:3 52:12

53:10,17 54:25

55:23 56:6,15,18

57:6,11,14,16,19

58:2,5,14 59:12

60:9 63:5,9 64:5

64:6,12,14,19,22

64:25 65:3 99:24

100:3,23 101:3

101:16,17,23

102:1,5,9,10,14

102:21 103:7,12

104:14,15 106:2

106:6,21,22

107:2,4,6 109:21

110:3,14 112:4

112:15,15 113:1

113:5,9 114:15

114:16 116:7

117:17 123:7,17

124:10,23 125:16

126:5 127:14

129:13 130:5,6

130:15,22,23,25

131:7,16 138:16

138:20 142:17

145:12 146:18,22

150:17,18,19

154:17 157:4,5

159:22 170:6

171:25 172:2,11

186:2,16,20

187:7,9,17,23

188:10

knew 33:11 42:24

113:1 181:1

186:22

knock 89:14

know 5:25 8:11

15:12 16:6,6 19:1

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32:6,12 33:19

37:9,10 38:14

43:14 46:6 49:21

57:21 58:14,17

58:19,21 62:3

63:14,18 66:13

69:10 71:8 72:24

72:25 73:1,2,17

77:4,23 79:10

80:11,17 83:11

83:24 84:6,23

86:2 88:11 91:7

94:5 95:20 96:5,6

96:8,15 97:10

101:18,20 106:14

106:18 107:12

108:7,24 112:3

112:14,17,21

113:14,16 119:3

119:12,14 123:22

125:18,21 126:24

127:2,2,10

131:10,12,14

132:1 135:11,22

136:14,16,20

137:10,12,13

138:1,4 139:6

140:8,11 143:18

143:22,23,25

144:22 145:8,10

145:14,15,16

146:1,2,5,8,10,24

147:3,11,24

149:8 150:11,15

150:19 151:8,14

151:20,23 152:10

154:17,21 155:9

155:11,12 158:8

160:1,3,13

161:13,15 162:6

162:8,11,16

164:1,14 165:4

165:23 166:3,5

166:17 169:9

171:22 173:16

174:1 176:2

178:7,11,14

179:6,12 180:22

181:12,15,23

182:1,2,4,5,7

184:2,4 186:13

186:22 188:3,23

189:12

knowing 127:20

knowledge 26:21

119:6,6 182:19

known 23:19

176:24 179:16

knows 147:13

l

l 4:13 7:21 16:7

19:14

labeled 143:7

lack 47:8

lakeview 2:13

large 12:9 60:14

larger 9:17 82:15

87:21

largest 14:4,8,9

las 34:11

late 13:12 28:17

34:14 47:14

53:21 101:21,22

134:16 136:13

lauderdale 1:2

law 5:20

lawsuit 61:12

170:13 171:17

lawyer 128:9,16

162:3,6

lawyers 53:2 66:6

lay 82:19 83:16

84:14,23 85:23

86:1,1

lead 43:6

learn 11:25 50:24

51:4 68:16,17

89:18 124:25

learning 51:1

learns 27:2

leave 21:15

115:22 156:16

left 75:22,25

103:9 153:20

legally 148:25

149:22

lenawee 7:19

length 27:10

29:21 31:19

152:16

lengths 31:13

letter 49:24 50:3

50:4,7,8,21

level 17:5,8,11

25:9

liability 1:4

license 69:6,13

licensing 98:6,16

lie 135:18 140:19

life 44:14,16

151:15

likelihood 45:15

45:17,19

limit 138:3

limited 1:4 15:17

15:18,19,23

line 138:16,18

139:3,9

lines 19:21

link 103:4

list 145:9

litigation 54:1

132:3

little 40:22 42:21

58:15 66:16

70:25 76:11,15

90:9 93:21

105:22 109:3,23

114:4,6 115:2

116:20 166:10

176:14

live 7:7 68:1

173:14

living 6:20

llc 1:4 6:24 7:4

llp 2:8

load 119:12

153:2 155:19

156:3,7

loaded 156:14

174:25

locate 78:19

located 7:16,17

19:17

location 33:2,17

34:1 149:15,16

175:13

locations 80:7

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lock 65:1

locked 42:23

lodged 173:22

lodges 173:7

logical 32:7

long 8:15 13:7,24

17:4 47:13 69:9

80:11 89:16

90:13 108:3

109:25 175:19

176:5,7,24

177:11

longer 69:15,16

69:17 101:7,8

longitudinal

31:19

look 65:9 78:25

79:19 82:19,20

83:25 84:7,17,20

85:13,16 109:9

110:14 111:8

154:10 164:23

167:11 168:10,13

169:6

looked 35:8 69:25

79:7

looking 83:16

84:15,15 103:1

157:2

looks 42:3 76:13

79:3,20 82:25

83:2,23 90:22

154:5 159:11,12

loose 42:16,18,21

lose 66:8 109:18

lost 109:12 121:6

121:9

lot 41:1,5 46:10

107:21 144:22

145:4

lots 80:9 101:14

144:17 155:6

loud 175:2,3

love 77:5

low 56:5 117:13

118:19

lower 32:18

114:10,14,17,18

lowest 115:24

174:5

luck 128:8

lug 46:4 121:19

lugs 64:23 114:11

114:14,18 120:21

121:17 151:4

153:9,23 154:1

154:14 158:14,15

159:2

luke 2:23 34:7

55:12,12,15,19

55:23 56:6 59:1

60:15,16,24

110:13 111:4,8

113:17 116:9

117:11,16,19

125:1,13,23

126:10,17 128:7

128:21 129:3

138:23,24 139:1

165:1,15,19

168:1,3,25 169:2

170:14 186:24

luke's 60:23

lunch 140:23

141:5

lying 98:14,24

99:5

m

m 11:2

machine 33:2,16

43:2,14 77:8

88:11,20 111:25

167:12 168:20

machining 13:18

42:17 169:19

mad 89:8,8,9,11

144:1

madam 87:13

magazine 15:24

94:11,14 95:24

96:16 97:6,11,12

magwell 3:21,23

94:22 95:15,20

96:25 97:2,21,22

97:25 98:8 99:4

99:20

magwells 8:21

94:15,17

main 63:13

major 11:12,17

majority 8:11 9:3

53:11 120:4

making 38:6,12

41:3 49:25 50:17

69:24 70:5 72:1,2

72:4,6 78:13

93:22 94:1

113:23 118:7,23

managing 7:2,3

manufacture

7:25 8:2 9:1 12:9

59:15 68:20 69:6

71:18 88:11

107:20 149:12,14

manufactured

59:14 79:2

117:21 175:23

manufacturer

18:1 20:12 27:4

33:15 36:21,24

42:8,9 55:24 56:3

81:8 102:9

131:19

manufacturers

10:3,9,21,23

14:16 17:25

26:16 28:13

42:10 91:16

manufactures

7:23 8:5

manufacturing

6:21,22 8:25

11:14 12:25 25:2

25:8 26:23 27:2

39:5 70:22,24

77:10 80:13

145:19 166:2

maple 2:3

march 54:7 55:14

124:11,11 143:14

margin 96:1

mari 2:17

mark 32:8 86:18

86:21 87:8,9,11

87:12 92:18 93:4

95:9 96:19

102:18 161:16

182:23

marked 87:4,15

92:20 93:5 95:11

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marketing

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marking 86:24

86:25 87:5

markings 112:21

marks 35:13,17

match 73:12

matched 77:15

matches 15:3

73:13,14,21

material 11:18

24:7 44:17 95:7

96:6 97:1 103:24

104:1,17,21,25

105:13 115:2

186:7

materials 11:13

11:16,19,21

74:24 133:21

math 109:23

matt 54:4 152:6

matter 44:14

99:2,5 130:16

matthew 1:13 3:2

5:12 6:17 191:7

192:7

max 138:2

maxed 163:15

mcintire 2:23 4:3

34:7,10,19,20

55:15 110:14

111:5,12 116:9

116:15 117:11

122:12,19 125:1

125:23 141:10

168:1,3,25

170:14,19,21

171:1,6 188:24

mcintire's 128:9

mckelvie 2:3,3

mean 31:9 43:18

46:1 62:14,18

97:15 100:14

129:23 162:15

164:22 165:22

167:10

meaning 168:7

means 100:7

167:11 180:10

measurements

71:23 92:10

mekosh 1:9

member 7:2,3

members 49:16

49:20

meme 159:9

160:6,10,12

mention 18:23

20:11 30:6,14

118:7

mentioned 9:10

32:2 40:4 45:23

63:23

merely 175:5

message 74:1,1

76:25 111:24

134:10 158:3

159:12,12 165:6

messages 53:23

53:23 73:24

100:6,11 101:6,9

101:13,13

messenger

161:21

met 34:9 68:9

metal 64:20,23

65:1 94:17,23

114:19

metallurgy 25:18

26:2

metals 94:19

michael 1:10 4:7

72:24,25 73:1

75:20,21 76:2

133:24 170:14

michigan 2:4 7:7

7:8,10,13,17

11:11 19:18 73:7

73:9 103:17

micosh 179:5

mid 32:20 116:4

117:13

middle 32:18

134:15

midway 89:14

mike 159:16

161:22

military 75:25,25

milling 45:5

million 51:2,3,7

51:17 52:3

mind 6:4 11:3

68:19 77:1

109:25

mine 62:9

minor 81:10

minute 65:13,20

117:1 133:23

171:24 182:22

minutes 141:6

misrepresented

23:7

misstates 178:4

181:18

mistake 160:25

mistreated 60:24

mitchell 91:4

modifications

104:16,20

modify 103:22

moment 65:8

86:17

money 41:5 52:6

72:21 77:11 78:4

78:5,15 141:18

142:4,7,10,12

month 73:18

171:14

months 67:4,25

68:4 69:12 74:8

89:16 138:15

morning 5:17,18

53:14 55:18 62:4

moskowitz 2:7

mount 13:19

mounted 106:9

mounts 8:21

move 42:22

moved 66:9,9

113:8

movement

105:16

moving 133:10

133:19 134:2,4

134:17,25

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multi 15:5

multiple 15:11,13

17:24 31:13 36:2

53:22 68:3,6 73:5

163:9 167:20

168:12 177:21

mutual 127:6,21

mutually 126:11

130:11

muzzle 32:5

115:12,15 120:5

myths 183:16

n

n 2:1 3:1,1 4:13

5:1 7:21 11:2

19:14 77:17,19

nail 165:1

name 5:19 6:15

6:22 19:11,13

20:11 34:8 53:9

66:3 103:16,18

113:11 145:23

nature 12:1 29:22

neal 19:13,14,19

20:17 28:21 29:4

necessarily 120:8

need 6:12 25:3,8

66:12,14 87:21

127:2 141:4,5

189:18,23,25

needed 39:24

60:14

needs 119:19

176:12

negative 36:6

44:6 47:17,17,19

47:23 48:1,2,8,19

137:15 165:10

negligent 169:12

169:15

nevada 1:8 187:9

187:18

never 5:24 60:8

60:16 81:15 87:3

98:4,5,11,16 99:9

99:11 115:15

118:20 119:5,9

126:5 130:8

132:20 134:19

135:12,17 138:6

139:17,25 148:12

154:6 179:18

new 31:23,24

35:8 68:3,11,13

78:13 112:11

134:18 176:2,4,6

187:21

newbie 77:16,17

nicholas 2:12,17

nick 65:18

nickname 47:5,8

47:17 48:4

nicks 65:16

nine 10:19 153:4

185:5

ninety 10:19

non 13:11 36:17

173:5

noo 77:18

noob 77:17,19

normal 152:13

174:5

north 2:8

nos 87:15

notary 1:20 191:6

191:15 192:5

notes 54:2 57:10

124:5 192:10

notice 85:23

november 191:9

192:17

number 25:10,14

30:12 60:14,23

61:1 79:24 82:14

82:16 83:6

107:15,16 177:18

numbers 112:21

155:11 188:7,21

189:3

numerous 47:16

179:17

o

o 3:1 4:13 5:1

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oal 152:16

oath 3:6 5:14

191:1

object 23:9,22

37:12 38:7 82:21

84:18 85:2,11,19

86:6 90:1,23

91:11 98:1 99:16

112:18 122:9

123:2 126:7,12

126:19,25 127:8

127:15,24 128:5

128:11,17,24

129:7 131:2,9

135:21 136:3,8

139:4,10 146:15

147:5,6,22 148:5

148:6 156:12,24

159:21,25 161:4

161:9 163:24

164:8 166:8,14

166:24,25 168:15

169:7,14,22

180:12,13 182:15

189:5

objected 98:4,5

98:23 99:4

objecting 51:23

79:14

objection 24:14

27:14 36:12 38:8

41:17 43:8 44:24

46:22 48:10,15

49:5,9 51:19,20

59:7 61:24 64:1,9

64:16 65:6 74:10

80:15 81:21 82:8

83:19 84:2 87:5

94:2 98:8 125:8

132:18 135:13

137:7 140:21

147:23 148:13

175:7 178:4

179:13,21 181:18

187:11

objections 86:22

observed 20:20

20:23 27:24

42:12 43:3,11

obstructed

173:15

obstruction

173:11,17 174:8

174:10

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occasion 20:17

24:17 30:2 34:14

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occasionally 28:2

29:25 34:16

39:11

occur 174:17

occurred 53:22

54:6

occurrence 28:8

october 1:14

73:16,25 74:15

152:1 158:4

172:10 191:8

offered 60:16

77:8 126:10

127:20 130:11

office 7:1 76:6

161:18

oh 66:8,23 75:23

109:23 164:19

176:25

ohio 140:7

okay 6:15 7:4,16

11:9 19:14,25

27:1,20 28:3

30:14 31:15

38:19 42:12 46:1

53:9 54:10,19,23

55:10,17 56:4,17

57:5,16,22 58:5,8

58:24 60:7,13,22

61:3,11 62:2 63:2

66:21,25 67:21

67:24 68:10,15

68:23 71:22 72:1

72:11 74:23

75:16 76:8,15,18

76:24 78:1,17

81:18 85:7,16

86:18 88:8,19

91:15 92:18

93:10 94:11,21

95:4,7,9,20,24

96:6,11,19 97:1,6

97:20 100:9

101:18,22 102:5

102:17 103:11,15

104:4,8,11,15

105:4,8,17,23

106:11,21 107:1

107:5,25 108:3,7

108:18 109:6,12

110:2,13 111:18

112:24 113:16,21

114:21,24 115:17

115:24 116:5

117:19 118:2,7

118:12,22,22

119:15 120:11,16

121:1,11,16

122:1,4,12,19

123:14,24 124:3

124:16,19 125:13

126:10 128:7

130:2,10,20

133:12,18 135:1

135:11 137:17

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140:12 142:14,16

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146:12 147:17

148:23 149:2,16

149:21 150:1

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152:19 153:4,13

153:16,23 154:17

155:9 156:3,16

156:22 157:6,16

158:6,13 159:5

161:7 162:1,3,11

162:18 163:11,11

164:6,11,16,25

165:13 166:1

167:2,5,13 168:6

168:11 169:20

170:2,13 171:6

171:20,24 172:5

173:4,16,21

174:1,9,20 175:3

176:5,21 177:1

177:10,23 178:11

178:14,18 179:4

179:16,25 181:8

181:23 182:12,22

183:11,16 184:2

184:5,8,11,15,20

185:6,19 186:16

187:20 188:5,8

188:14 189:6,7

189:22,25 190:3

okay.mr. 110:21

old 101:8 102:11

111:22

once 28:6 34:11

73:18 122:5

147:12

ones 94:20

100:25 117:22

online 37:23 48:4

49:17,20 68:10

77:25

open 21:10 49:24

50:3,21 174:18

operating 8:15

opinion 16:12

18:2 42:20 43:15

44:12 45:14

46:10 79:18 94:5

94:7,9,10 152:8

166:21

opinions 44:7

152:9

opposite 32:5

orange 2:8 76:15

order 83:10

107:7 163:3,4

166:18 171:9

189:23

ordered 113:5

ordering 25:24

30:1 107:4,6

orders 34:18

organizations

14:5,25

original 88:3

182:2,7,20

originally 44:21

83:15 116:5

orlando 2:9,20

outside 44:18

73:9

overall 152:16

overcharge

172:25 174:13,16

174:21 175:1,5,6

overcharged

174:14

owes 140:6,13

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167:19

owner 7:1 108:11

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owners 180:21,22

p

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p.a. 2:13,18

p.c. 2:3

p.m. 1:15 76:9

77:1 143:14

152:1 190:4

page 37:21 76:25

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35:2 39:17,20

40:7,17 50:18

102:5,8,14 107:1

123:8,12 138:15

184:8

sells 10:18 14:1

16:16 27:6

semi 12:10

send 35:21,22

40:25 56:2 71:17

72:20 73:24

110:13,17 111:18

116:23 125:22

126:11 127:5,14

127:21 128:22

130:11 138:21

139:1 143:22

sending 41:4

143:20 159:24

169:11

sends 76:25 167:2

sent 22:3 29:22

32:23 33:10,21

34:24 35:12,16

36:4,7 37:9 38:1

40:23 42:24 44:2

56:6 57:7,12,20

57:23 58:9 60:8

71:20,22 72:7

77:13 79:14

88:10 110:19

111:9 113:17,17

122:22 123:25

125:15 158:24

159:18,19 160:10

161:13,18 165:6

165:25 168:3,24

171:3 186:16

187:7 188:9

sentence 56:17

58:8

serdio 1:19 191:6

191:14 192:5,22

serial 112:20

serialized 9:14

series 5:25 66:6

167:2

service 189:24

services 46:16,18

140:13

servicing 46:8

set 33:16 39:23

166:2

setting 35:5

seven 176:20

seventeen 107:22

shady 47:1,1,11

47:17 48:4

132:14 177:15,19

177:22,25 178:3

179:6,19 180:9

180:10,17 184:24

185:9,12

shake 66:7,11

shape 65:4 86:13

share 75:5

shay 1:5 2:23

3:15 20:1 37:18

47:2 51:1 53:16

61:22 62:6,22

66:4 70:13 77:2

87:23 88:1 89:5

124:12 125:2

126:4,10 132:13

132:16 133:2,5,6

137:6 138:24

164:11 166:13

179:19 184:16,23

shea 47:11,17

sheen 186:10

187:1

shelf 35:8

ship 172:3

shipped 137:21

140:4

shipping 138:7

shirt 77:4,21

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shit 128:8 138:16

138:18 139:3,9

shook 43:20

shoot 21:16 44:19

73:10

shooter 16:13,14

150:11,13 162:21

163:5,8,10

shooters 1:8,18

2:10,15 5:21

14:12 22:8,12,16

22:19,22 23:1,5

23:15,19 24:11

24:18,23 25:17

26:22,24 30:15

39:10,13,16,16

39:19 40:1 49:24

50:4,13,16,24

51:3,9,13 52:11

63:5,9 106:17

108:1,4,11,25

109:12,14 112:9

112:12,16 123:11

129:18 130:4

131:6,15,17

132:7 133:1,6

145:8 150:5

161:14 170:6

shooting 8:6,10

8:13 9:8 14:2,6

14:11,15,20,23

16:10 18:13

21:17 22:1 23:21

24:13,20 26:18

39:2,7,21,24 41:7

41:21 46:20 47:1

47:20 48:13,24

49:4,16 59:6,12

73:2,5,13 88:14

108:3 118:9,13

118:16,18 119:10

119:13,15,16,19

119:22 123:1

188:12

shop 31:2 42:25

68:3 88:11,20

89:24 102:12

171:19 181:21

short 171:9

shorten 44:16

shortens 44:14

shorter 69:15

shortly 19:25

68:8 79:15

shot 34:11 119:5

154:4 167:22

168:13

show 34:11

110:21 135:9

169:2 182:23

showed 33:21

64:7 97:11

146:21 157:3

showing 134:19

147:7 158:6,13

159:1,2 178:18

shows 42:5 76:13

136:21 154:9

shyster 177:19

179:6,20

side 84:24 90:16

106:9 113:10

114:4

sides 80:2,5

sideway 154:4

signature 191:14

192:21

signed 191:9

significantly 86:9

86:13

signing 4:16

signs 64:7

similar 69:25

79:3 83:17 84:7

84:21 88:12

90:22 98:9

sincerest 81:5

sir 5:9 26:25

61:21 65:10,12

66:19 67:9 69:3,9

70:10,24 72:18

74:3,21,25 75:3

75:11 76:3,9 77:7

78:22 79:8,11

80:14,18,25

81:16 82:2 84:1,9

84:12 85:10

86:16 87:19 88:4

88:16 89:21

91:15,20 92:5,7

92:16 93:2,23

94:1,6,9 95:18,25

96:24 97:2,4

98:20,24 99:25

100:14 102:15,25

103:6,8 106:12

106:15,19 107:10

107:14 108:8,12

110:5 111:7,19

113:7 121:8

132:3 147:17,21

153:11 154:11

155:3 156:11

158:1,7,24 159:5

159:7 161:20

163:18 167:3

170:3 176:7

177:5 179:10

182:22 183:3,6,9

183:14 184:22,25

185:25 188:15

sit 19:1

sits 120:2

situation 40:15

42:2 116:18

127:23 146:18,22

154:7 155:18,25

159:22 160:22

165:3 174:5,16

six 69:12

size 83:9,10,12

sized 104:6

skipping 139:15

139:23

skus 107:23

sleeve 44:10,12

44:17,22 45:3,4,7

169:2

sleeving 44:17

slide 46:3,4

106:10 120:3,8

120:11,13,14,15

120:16,19,23

121:2,17 153:20

154:6,23 156:2

156:16,17,19

157:25 159:5

slides 13:18

43:11 150:25

154:23 155:4

156:23

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slightly 59:2

118:4 186:12

small 83:7,11

87:20,22 152:25

155:6

smaller 83:12

smart 45:14

180:3

smiths 152:9

snapshot 183:19

soft 20:8,9,12

23:20 24:20,21

29:21 30:12

32:23 35:24

37:24 38:1 50:1

59:22 65:4 99:25

110:4 123:18

125:3 126:5

129:11,13 130:16

130:23 142:18

159:9 160:16,22

161:1

softer 24:19

32:13,15 44:19

57:24 58:10,15

58:21,25 59:2

117:21 118:4

121:1,16 122:20

122:25 123:12

130:5

sold 10:20,23,25

11:4,5 21:25

24:11,18 34:25

39:24 40:18 60:4

101:23 102:10

106:17 113:23

117:22 123:4

130:3,5,6 131:18

149:13 150:1,4

solemnly 5:5

solid 33:19

114:19

somebody 18:18

18:21 19:21

20:17 21:6 28:6

83:23 84:6 89:19

98:13,22 99:3

116:2 137:10,13

159:9 175:5

178:2 185:11

soon 184:14

sorry 9:5 12:4,12

19:11 28:11

50:25 63:6 66:9

75:23 80:13

86:23 94:13

100:9 106:16

112:7 113:17

121:6 124:20

127:17 129:12

130:17 139:18

140:17 141:21

144:23,25 147:19

151:4 154:18,22

155:15,21 158:11

167:14 168:24

sorts 155:5

sound 71:11

sounded 52:6

sounding 175:2

sounds 164:16

south 132:7

southern 1:1

speak 34:5,6,16

34:17 116:14

speaking 6:10

29:25 76:19,21

91:7,9

special 103:3,8

113:13,18

specific 32:12

66:25 90:25

117:17 125:18,19

142:19 155:3

170:16 173:19

180:2

specifically 13:23

29:14 30:5 33:16

37:25,25 43:13

43:24 45:22

49:10 60:21 71:6

79:6 81:1,3

100:21 101:14

102:12 116:2

123:4 132:1

137:16 145:11

170:10 171:1

178:1,7,8 180:25

181:15 189:2

specifications

23:8

specifics 132:11

181:9

specs 71:24

speculating 175:5

spell 7:20 11:1

spent 67:24

spewed 138:16,18

spewing 139:3

spiral 103:3

split 21:9 92:4

spoke 28:20 29:4

29:10 30:23,24

34:7 96:3 116:9

spoken 34:13

sponsored 67:11

150:13

sport 15:14

118:19

spring 153:5,6

squib 21:2,11,12

21:18 173:3,4

174:2

squibs 21:4

srp 152:23,25

156:8

staccato 112:11

112:11

stainless 9:24

58:13 117:25

118:3

stand 70:8 148:21

152:24

standard 25:2,7

45:13 103:24

104:2,6,15,22

113:14 128:9

172:7,12

standing 115:8

standpoint

119:13

start 57:25 66:22

67:4 102:1 104:3

120:24 134:18

started 12:14

13:12 17:20

22:23 66:24 68:8

68:8 69:19 80:12

102:2 135:2

163:5 176:9

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starting 177:6

starts 122:6

138:12

state 1:20 6:15

191:3,6,15 192:2

statement 38:5

38:11,15 55:1

56:20,22 60:18

60:25 91:13

135:24 140:16,19

163:18 167:10

statements 61:18

61:23 135:18

states 1:1

steal 77:12

stealing 77:3

steel 9:24,25

11:22,25 24:9,19

24:19 25:21 26:7

27:13,18 28:1,5

57:24 58:10,13

58:17,22,25 59:2

59:5,10,11,15

60:1,5 94:23

114:5 117:22

122:21,23,25

123:9,12 130:5

186:23

stenographic

192:10

stenographically

192:6

step 133:22

171:24

sti 90:13 92:4

93:10,12,15,16

112:6,11,12

stick 120:5

stipulated 4:14

sto 11:7

stock 29:9 31:2

102:11 103:3

stole 79:18

185:18

stolen 89:16

stop 40:13

stopped 40:10

107:1 132:7

171:18

stopping 117:1

stops 46:12

storage 134:19

135:2

strayer 145:21,24

street 2:19

strike 28:11 69:4

70:23 72:23

74:23 103:20

111:14 124:25

130:3 131:5

158:9 168:2

strokes 178:16

stroking 178:11

183:16

stuck 21:15

studied 11:21

studies 11:12,13

11:24

study 11:16

stuff 113:15

134:18 135:2

176:9

style 68:25 70:2,4

70:4,6,8,9 120:2

153:7 186:8,8

styles 186:25

subpoena 74:25

76:6 86:21

100:17 110:24

133:22 143:6

161:18

subpoenaed

100:10

subsequent

110:17

substantially

83:17 98:8

109:10

sue 141:14

164:12

sued 50:10 171:4

suffered 64:15,20

sufficient 25:14

26:17

suggest 35:20

126:1 133:2

143:2 170:21

suggested 134:2

147:13,14 155:18

155:24

suggesting

160:20 165:15

suggestion 148:3

suing 41:5 141:12

suitable 59:12

123:1

suite 2:4,9,14,19

suited 21:25 39:1

39:6,21,23

summary 60:10

super 77:14

118:23 119:1,2

supplied 148:19

149:2

suppliers 145:5

suppose 144:15

182:17

sure 34:25 45:2

51:24 52:5,25

57:14 85:4,13,21

91:3 145:14,15

146:17 165:7

186:3 188:25

189:10

surface 43:4

114:4

surfaces 64:15

65:1

surprise 135:11

135:14,15 136:20

136:24,25 137:1

137:3,8 144:10

surprised 139:14

139:22 144:8

surprising 137:2

surrounding

171:2

sutcliff 2:18

sv 93:13,17,19,22

93:25 145:16

svi 145:8,22

146:10

swapped 37:10

37:19,24 38:1

swaps 37:16

swear 5:5

switched 113:14

sworn 5:13 191:8

sympathetic

89:23

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t

t 3:1,1 4:13,13

192:1,1

t1 90:13

table 113:15

take 6:12,13

65:13,20 92:10

104:17,21 109:25

117:1 119:25

131:11,25 138:20

154:10 167:9,9

175:19

taken 1:14,18

5:22 65:25 117:8

131:19 151:18,21

takes 18:8

talent 91:5

talk 73:20 101:15

172:18

talked 66:16

117:16 133:24

170:18 171:15

172:15,21 176:23

185:3,17

talking 32:24

46:13 74:12,14

114:10 117:10

taran 162:16

163:1

tarr 162:14,14,18

tarr's 162:5,13

162:16

tasting 188:20

technical 58:19

telephone 53:15

tell 19:19 20:7

21:4,11 30:20

37:18 38:3 52:16

54:8 57:5,16,19

58:2 67:6 71:8

77:25 85:13 93:8

95:14 96:24

101:1 111:12,23

117:20 122:19

123:7,11,20

125:13,17 126:4

126:10 128:7,14

128:21,22 129:3

130:2,4,10,14,21

130:25 131:6

132:9,13,16

133:6,9,12,15

142:16,21 153:25

154:9,13,16

157:2 158:15,17

158:18,19 159:7

164:5 165:9

167:13,15,18,22

168:1,3,23 175:8

175:20 180:23

181:8 183:11,13

183:14 186:17

telling 126:15,17

133:17,18 134:22

134:24 135:1,8

139:8,9

tells 154:8 155:19

181:16

ten 15:25 17:23

41:14 47:12 79:7

108:5,6 184:25

tend 136:1

term 26:9 43:16

47:17 51:16 52:2

52:8

terms 63:21

108:24

test 24:6 30:10,25

31:15 32:6,8,10

33:3,11,17 34:1

112:2 116:20

128:10 172:2,8

172:12 175:9

tested 31:1,18,20

32:2,21,22 33:1,7

33:19 34:20,22

35:13 38:18 56:5

56:6,9,13,18 57:3

110:4 111:12

112:15 114:7

115:7,8,11,13,15

115:17,25 116:5

117:12 123:20,22

123:23,25 124:4

154:19,23 187:6

187:9,18,21

tester 31:18,21

111:10 175:12,20

175:23 187:4,6

187:22

testified 5:13

7:22 13:25 16:15

28:16 29:10 36:1

38:17,21 80:20

98:13 99:22

101:23 106:21

111:11 113:22

114:16 115:7

124:4 141:8

144:22 145:4

175:11 180:19

181:1 184:22

testify 170:21

testifying 37:22

testimony 3:2 5:6

6:11 55:2 81:18

84:1,14 101:3

163:17 178:5

181:19 185:10

187:13

testing 30:6 32:22

34:9,14 35:18,21

57:2,7,12,20

111:19,25 113:18

114:15,22 116:21

117:13 126:11,18

127:6,21 128:23

130:12 131:1

175:9 186:3,17

187:4,7,24 188:9

tests 111:16

114:16

text 53:23 73:24

74:1,9 100:2,5

101:6,9,12,13

110:11 111:24

159:12 165:6

texted 70:19

texts 100:6

thank 5:9 7:11

52:24 65:12

117:6 164:19

185:19 188:15

189:6

thanked 137:3

thee 84:9

theirs 98:2,9 99:4

theories 79:23

theory 83:9,14

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thicker 104:2

105:8,9,13

thing 15:24 40:16

41:2 43:5 46:9

52:6 75:21 77:2

88:11 90:25

121:2 135:6

138:15 142:6,14

164:25 166:6

180:2

things 12:1 13:20

29:20,22 53:13

55:12 101:14,15

135:9,12,17

137:2,14 138:21

155:7 164:23

171:2

think 11:2 18:9

25:11,13 36:6

40:14,20 44:13

54:5 55:25 79:20

82:23,25 83:17

84:7 94:7,9

101:22 107:4,18

111:11 113:13,22

114:1,16 115:6

117:10 118:24

119:19 124:4

126:24 135:8

141:8 143:18

145:21 146:12

147:2 150:13

151:12 152:10

156:10 162:23

166:20 172:25

173:25 174:15

177:13,17 180:17

187:12

thinking 50:22

thinks 178:17

thinner 104:3

third 14:9

thought 23:13

29:18 35:6 39:16

39:20 50:9 52:5

70:7 79:17

131:22 141:23

164:25 168:17

177:17

thread 45:7

165:20

threaded 27:10

165:25

threating 45:6

104:11

threats 104:14

three 15:14 17:14

84:24 97:23,23

179:8

throat 124:21

throw 122:1

tightly 43:21

till 185:5

time 1:15 6:11

13:2 20:1,5 28:20

28:24 30:2,24

31:16,17 33:12

36:2 47:10,13

51:5 52:21,24

53:13,18,24 54:9

62:6 65:12 66:18

67:6,8,12,13,18

69:19 70:12 73:6

73:11 74:9,11,14

74:21 78:14

88:22 90:14

97:19 106:24,25

113:14 124:14

129:20,25 132:10

143:25 161:14

163:13,22 164:4

171:15,23 172:21

173:2 176:8,15

177:4 183:25

184:3,6,14,15,18

185:19 186:22

times 33:8,20

68:6 84:3 89:7,11

99:17 172:23

timing 121:5

122:2,4,6

timothy 1:9

title 6:25

today 17:2,8 19:1

38:22 52:24

81:18 84:1 116:3

141:4 170:3

176:15,17 189:18

told 18:17,20

20:8 29:14 30:12

37:25 40:17

52:12 57:21 59:1

60:10,19 63:4

71:10 116:20

124:16 127:4,4

128:21 129:3

130:8 131:10,12

138:20,23 140:6

141:10 142:23

144:9 146:7

147:16,19 179:18

182:10 186:24

tolerances 12:1

18:6 59:5

top 75:19,21 76:2

76:16 86:14 88:4

90:15 113:9

115:13 139:15,23

153:20

total 10:17 12:16

tough 89:18

town 149:20

tradename 95:3,4

trading 48:21,25

49:3 133:7,16

train 68:25

trained 67:21

68:21 69:5

training 66:17

67:1,1 68:24

69:12 163:5

transcript 4:17

192:8,9

trap 43:16

traps 43:23

traveled 73:12

traveling 120:24

132:7

treat 187:18

treated 122:14

treating 187:10

tried 88:15

trigger 8:21

13:18

trips 68:3

troll 137:11

trolls 179:6

truck 12:9 134:17

134:25

trucking 134:5

trucks 12:10

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true 69:3 91:15

92:5 106:18

116:22 140:16

147:12 163:18

192:9

trusted 179:8

truth 5:6,7,7

139:8

try 46:14 50:9

66:11 112:13

136:17 166:12

169:11 176:18

trying 70:22,23

71:4 77:9,12

89:19 107:5

130:15,22 135:9

137:4 166:16

169:20

tungsten 44:10

44:12,17 45:3,4

169:2,3

turn 187:9,17

turning 45:6,8,13

45:21

twenty 107:22,22

two 14:8 32:12,23

35:15 55:13

56:12,25 57:1,25

83:16 84:13,25

85:17 90:12,14

90:15,15 110:4,7

111:9,19 112:3

112:14 115:25

117:12,24 118:2

122:22 123:23

145:10 149:24

156:22 159:10

186:1,5,13,23,25

187:3

type 15:4 24:6,19

25:4 27:10,12

28:1,5 31:11 43:2

58:13,15,25 59:2

59:4,10,11,15

60:1 95:5 96:10

97:5 119:15

135:5 173:19

typed 110:11

163:19

types 8:25 11:16

11:19 25:20 27:8

42:15 58:17,22

105:6,7 107:19

154:25 186:23

typically 8:24

25:18,20,23 26:1

26:3 28:10,12

34:17 173:23,24

174:11

u

u 4:13 11:2

u.s. 14:5

uh 66:12,12,12

undamaged

153:9

understand 6:5

25:13 55:18 56:2

66:13 85:21 88:1

88:19 91:1

117:23 127:17

134:22 139:21

149:10 160:17,18

164:22 165:22

171:4 187:17,20

188:10

understanding

24:4 45:4 47:4,7

51:6 57:9 118:4

131:11,15,17,21

131:24 157:22

187:15

understood 57:1

117:24 186:3

unfair 55:12,19

55:23 60:9

united 1:1

universe 159:13

university 11:11

unjustly 50:10

unsafe 40:2

unsuitable 59:19

upgrades 13:17

uphold 50:9,12

upper 32:18

75:16

ups 185:21

upset 69:23 144:4

147:3

upstanding 45:8

use 15:20 16:1,2

16:4,17,21 17:2

17:17 18:9 38:22

39:4 47:16 58:16

59:14 81:19,23

89:16 92:15 93:1

93:19 96:16

114:8 146:20

149:3 188:4,11

user 21:1,20

uses 44:9

uspsa 14:7 15:1,4

67:8 68:9 73:3,5

118:16 119:15,18

129:17 152:14

163:2

ut 163:14

v

v 16:7

variances 58:22

variations 117:25

118:3

variety 58:14

various 13:20

61:19 73:14

78:19 94:19 97:7

100:7,23 107:9

155:6

vary 31:12

vast 8:11 9:3

53:10

vegas 34:12

vendors 49:8,12

61:16 144:23

verbal 66:11

verify 186:20

version 118:5

video 183:20

videoconference

1:17 191:8 192:7

videos 44:3

virtual 192:6

visible 113:11

visit 132:25

visually 186:11

vlieger 4:4,6 16:6

16:9,12 51:14

129:14,16,21

130:2,4,10,14,21

131:6 133:12,15

142:16 143:7,17

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144:7 146:7,12

150:11 151:8

152:1,6 154:8

155:19,24 156:17

157:7 158:3

159:19 161:13

172:15

voigt 145:21,24

volume 118:19

vs 1:7

w

w 7:21

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189:16,21

waived 4:17

want 40:15 41:2

54:10 55:6 57:25

62:8,11 63:18

64:4 65:9 78:6

86:18 90:9,10

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117:3 123:14

131:11 141:9

160:24 171:24

186:3 189:8

wanted 27:2

53:11 68:24

72:20 118:5

124:7 185:14

warranty 46:9

131:20 157:8

way 21:14,25

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148:19 156:14

168:19 169:12

170:22 173:20

175:8

ways 64:6

we've 11:4,5 61:7

103:2 134:16

136:12,14 138:6

138:6

wear 44:20 45:23

45:25 46:2,5 64:8

website 27:6,12

102:3,15 103:4,6

106:12,22 117:22

118:1

week 111:9

163:14

weeks 171:11,14

weight 44:20

weird 166:6

wells 94:12,14

went 69:24 80:20

80:24 81:4,15

87:1 132:25

133:5 137:23

west 2:3,14

when's 172:21

widespread

60:15 94:7

willing 70:21

wilson 2:7 5:20

win 167:20

168:12

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withstand 119:22

witness 5:8 7:10

51:25 52:25

65:22 121:6,9,12

121:14 130:17

132:22 139:18

141:2,4,21

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176:11,14,21

189:8,21

won 15:2,3

wonder 164:18

164:19

wonderful

164:17

wondering 111:9

words 47:13

107:17 139:2

work 12:6,11,13

12:19 13:5 17:18

17:21 35:23

41:24 42:5,6,10

43:2,14 46:6,9,12

46:14 55:24 68:2

79:23 83:25 89:6

89:10 129:18

141:13 148:16

167:12 168:20

169:19,21 177:6

181:24

worked 12:7,15

12:16 40:24

66:19 67:3,14

151:13 181:2,24

working 12:3,25

13:4,8,10,12,14

62:10,13,16

161:14 170:4

works 42:3,4

65:22 83:8,9,14

95:21 117:4,5

146:2,10

world 76:13,14

worn 167:23

168:13

writer 162:18

writes 134:15

162:3

wrong 60:1,5

88:10 128:23

wtf 168:7

y

y 2:7

yeah 25:6 34:4

36:19 43:17

50:14 52:10

54:22 60:12 73:8

78:5 79:9 87:22

97:17 104:24

113:20 114:12

116:23 118:10

120:9 121:12,25

124:1 135:4,7,19

136:10 141:3,18

144:15 145:21

153:15 157:18,20

158:2 162:2,15

163:20 177:9

178:8 189:24

year 19:8 69:17

74:8 150:8

years 8:16 12:17

13:3,9 16:25 17:6

17:14,16,23,25

18:17 22:14,23

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47:12 71:9 79:7

97:23,23 102:2,4

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129:22,23 132:6

133:1 150:9

165:8 170:7

171:18 176:25

177:2,7,18

179:17,18 184:25

185:5

yee 2:2,3 36:12

38:8 46:22 48:10

48:15 49:5 51:19

51:21 65:16 66:5

162:9 187:11

yep 63:7 75:15,24

76:4 90:19

121:14

york 68:4,11,13

youtube 183:20

z

zimmerman 2:18

zoom 191:7 192:7

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Rule 30

(e) Review By the Witness; Changes.

(1) Review; Statement of Changes. On request by the 

deponent or a party before the deposition is 

completed, the deponent must be allowed 30 days 

after being notified by the officer that the 

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(A) to review the transcript or recording; and

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The officer must note in the certificate prescribed 

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2019. PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE FEDERAL RULES 

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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 231

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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 232

of 266
Dame Michael 

Active now 

2110/20,7.09 PM 

If you dont mind indulging my curiosity what was the comp thing with you and shay. 

Did he rip your design off or accuse you of stealing his? 

C) 

0 

Also, buy a shirt, it's not me 

I dont know who 

But I luv it 

After I got my first machine, I offered to make comps for him. (trying to get into the 

parts mfg biz and all). I didn t do the best job, gave him his money back He 

proceeded to rip me up on the internet and accuse me of trying to steal his design 

because he sent me the dimensions so I could make it for him. 

aW h I matchedIbecause i Iwas I't T'] 

We've been digging here and there as of late 

He screw a bunch of people over in the moving truck biz 

Closed one company to start a new one with stuff in storage 

Peoples electronics never showing up 

He bought some grips from me over the last few months. Fm not selling him another 

thing after that KJCM deal and the line of shit he spewed to me about it. 

I'm surprised anyone deals with him with his history of skipping Bill's on top of this 

I'm told he owes the dlc guy in ohio for 11 guns 

Oh it was all prepaid, no way I was doing terms 

His lawyer(Roy's buddy) blocked me on fb after I made the C&Djoke on tarrs post C) about butler 

Dame Michael 

Active now 

2110/20,7.09 PM 

If you dont mind indulging my curiosity what was the comp thing with you and shay. 

Did he rip your design off or accuse you of stealing his? 

C) 

0 

Also, buy a shirt, it's not me 

I dont know who 

But I Iuv it 

After I got my first machine, I offered to make comps for him. (trying to get into the 

parts mfg biz and all). I didn t do the best job, gave him his money back He 

proceeded to rip me up on the internet and accuse me of trying to steal his design 

because he sent me the dimensions so I could make it for him. 

aW h I matchedIbecause i Iwas I't T'] 

We've been digging here and there as of late 

He screw a bunch of people over in the moving truck biz 

Closed one company to start a new one with stuff in storage 

Peoples electronics never showing up 

He bought some grips from me over the last few months. Fm not selling him another 

thing after that KJCM deal and the line of shit he spewed to me about it. 

I'm surprised anyone deals with him with his history of skipping Bill's on top of this 

I'm told he owes the dlc guy in ohio for 11 guns 

Oh it was all prepaid, no way I was doing terms 

His lawyer(Roy's buddy) blocked me on fb after I made the C&Djoke on tarrs post C) about butler 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 233

of 266
Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 234

of 266
Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 235

of 266
- Shay Akai 

• December 6, 2012 Fort Lauderdale 0 

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery 

Pfffft... Who ever said that? 

0 Kyle Riojas, Harold Norris and 3 others 26 Comments 

0 

Like 0 comment 4' Share 

Robert Gabanto 

Imitation happens when you cant keep up with the competition. 

tike 9y 

Shay Aicai 

Sent a drawing of our compensator to a "machine shop" to manufacture 

for us. Next thing I know, they have a very similar compensator claiming 

it as their own. I guess I should be flattered that they now call it the 

flattest shooting comp they have ever tried'. 

uk. 9>' 

Robert Gabanto 

Just saw it too! Looks your comp will be the blue print of all the comps. 

Feel sad for that machine shop', well at least we know who's the GOD 

of comp! Congratulations shay!! 

Chuck Bradley 

This industry is full of it Shay. Some people can only copy the work of 

others and the bad part of it is many times that copy get mad at those 

that copy from them also. I have been copied to the point others claim it 

was their design. Most people don't care either. Ask anybody using a 

Midway knock off of my bag, they don't care it will fall apart in a few 

months of use, or if it was a stolen design, as long as it was cheaper. 

They end up with our bag eventually after they learn the hard way. This 

industry is tough with everybody trying to find a way to cut into 

somebody elses piece of the pie. 

9y 02 

Shay Alcai 

They made comps for me. Now they are claiming it was their research 

and development They changed a few minor specs, but funny how they 

came out with it right after I sent them the drawings. Chuck, you know 

how long I have had that comp design,,. 

Uke91 0 

Kevin Gentry 

httpswwww.facebook.com/photo.php? 

fbid 558859637460761 &set=a.1 37726642907398.25 513.137621616251 

234&type=1&theater¬if_t= photo reply 

Uk. 9y 

RskWbite 

So who is it Shay? 

Like 9y 

Rsk White 

Nevermind. Just saw it 

Uk. 9y 

Dan Mitchell 

Imitation happens when someone has no creativity or talent. It is not 

flattery! 

Like 9>' 

Yael Shany 

Apart does not make the whole gun as good as the whole gun you 

build 

UI. y 

02 

Peter Oliver 

ArghBtiLSHlTchoke, cough, sputter.... 

Funny how it's always the same shit at the end of every rainbow! 

Like 9y 0 

Chuck Bradley 

Ijust compared the 2 and there is a pretty big difference. STI has had 

their T-1 Comp for a very long time and both are similar to it as well. At 

least in that it has 2 top ports and 2 side ports. Both the others just 

change the dimensions of those po... See more 

gy 

Miguel Gamboa 

Sorry to hear that.. 

- Shay Akai 

• December 6,2012 Fort Lauderdale. 

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery 

Pfffft... Who ever said that? 

C Kyle Riojas, Harold Norris and 3 others 26 Comments 

Like 0 comment 4' Share 

Robed Gabanto 

Imitation happens when you can't keep up with the competition. 

Like 9y 

Shay Aicai 

Sent a drawing of our compensator to a "machine shop' to manufacture 

for us. Next thing I know, they have a very similar compensator claiming 

it as their own. I guess I should be flattered that they now call it the 

"flattest shooting comp they have ever tried". 

Like 9y 

Robert Gabanto 

Just saw it too! Looks your comp will be the blue print of all the comps. 

Feel sad for that "machine shop", well at least we know who's the GOD 

of comp! Congratulations shay!! 

Like 9y 02 

Chuck Bradley 

This industry is full of it Shay. Some people can only copy the work of 

others and the bad part of it is many times that copy get mad at those 

that copy from them also. I have been copied to the point others claim it 

was their design. Most people don't care either. Ask anybody using a 

Midway knock off of my bag, they don't care it will fall apart in a few 

months of use, or if it was a stolen design, as long as it was cheaper. 

They end up with our bag eventually after they learn the hard way. This 

industry is tough with everybody trying to find a way to cut into 

somebody elses piece of the pie. 

9Y 02 

Shay Alcal 

They made comps for me. Now they are claiming it was their research 

and development They changed a few minor specs, but funny how they 

came out with it right after I sent them the drawings. Chuck, you know 

how long I have had that comp design... 

Like 9y C 

Kevin Gentry 

httpsVAwww.faceback.com/photo.php? 

fbid=558859637460761&set=a.137726642907398.25513.137621616251 

234&type=1&theater¬if,,t= photo reply 

Like 9y 

RskW1,ite 

So who is it Shay? 

Lila SJy 

Rsk White 

Nevermind. Just saw it. 

Like 9y 

Dan Mitchell 

Imitation happens when someone has no creativity or talent. It is not 

flattery! 

Like 9y 

Yael Shany 

A part does not make the whole gun as good as the whole gun you 

build 

Like 9y 

Ca 

Peter Oliver 

ArghBuLSHlTchoke, cough, sputter.... 

Funny how it's always the same shit at the end of every rainbow! 

Like 9y C 

Chuck Bradley 

Ijust compared the? and there is a pretty big difference. STI has had 

their T-1 Comp for a very long time and both are similar to it as well. At 

least in that it has top ports and 2 side ports. Both the others just 

change the dimensions of those po... See more 

gy 

Muel Gamboa 

Sorry to hear that.. 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 236

of 266
Miguel Gamboa 

Sorry to hear that... 

Like 9y 

Shay Akai 

You are right... The 1-1 has not been used for major power factor for 

quite a while, Most gun builders use more elaborate comps than that. 

Yes, the port sizes were changed a bit, but the concept is the same. The 

funny part is that our phone is ringing off the hook, people are 

recognizing the design, and most people, can not see the differences. If 

you compare the Akai comp to most popular comps, it is a very different 

design. Our goal was a two port comp that is shorter but very effective. 

Every comp out there uses ports and most use bleeder ports. In other 

words, all comps are, basically, the same. Very few use two ports and a 

large bleeder port. The curious part and the one that stands out is that 

we sent the drawings for our comps to them for manufacturing. Right 

after doing our comps, they come up with their comp that hasjust a few 

changes to it. 

Notice they said weeks of development... 

Like 9y 

Chuck Bradley 

Believe it or not STI still uses the T-i for gmm major. I just had this 

discussion with them. They do T-2 for Super and on the short match 

master. Fact is their design is about as much different than yours is from 

STI's design. The part about you sending them plans is more of an issue. 

Maybe yours gave them an idea on how they thought they could 

improve on it as you did with STI's. I still like the bedells or the 3 ports 

on top. In the ends I dont think any make that big of a difference. 

0 

0 

C 

C 

0 

gy 

Shay Akai 

Actually, the STI Ti was not our inspiration. Another comp that you sell 

was our inspiration and we spoke to the designer and respectfully 

explained the differences. We did not manufacture comps for someone 

else and then attempted to improve on them. 

Like 9y 

Angus Hobdell 

Next time talk to us We have the S AXIS lathe you know. 

Like 9y a 

Ian Jones 

Shady stuff, hope it comes back to bite them in the ass. 

Like 9y 

Bobby Keigans 

Actually Shay, I said designed through weeks of fluid engineering 

model development'. Not that the comp was developed in recent weeks, 

but we spent several weeks tweaking the software models. I have a few 

mechanical engineering friends (including a FGW team shooter and 2 of 

my first cousins), even one that specializes in thermofluid dynamics (he's 

a suppressor manufacturer) and we used that technology to make this 

comp the most advanced pistol compensator on the market. 

I'm sorry if you think anyone tried to copy or imitate your comp design 

but that certainly could not be further from the truth. Weve been 

working on this since we shot the Ohio Sectional together in 2010. 

gy 

Bobby Iteigans 

If you'll go look at the photo of the comp posted you can tell they are 

different. As much or more different than yours is compared to anyone 

else. Theres not a single vertical wall anywhere in the comp. 

gy 

Shay Akal 

Bobby, I cleared it with Matt Cheely. Cool it. I know all about the nonvertical walls, lol. 

Like 9y 

Ryan Davis 

My sti has the ti comp and its not bad once you find a load it likes. I 

found the ti needs a pretty stout load to work. I agree with chuck about 

them not being a whole lot of practical difference between them. For me 

at least once I got the load down even the yi can shoot pretty flat 

Like 9y 

Jimmy Meacham 

Calm down Shay. Don Hardy helped design your comp and I don't see 

him all upset!Ul lot 

uke 9y 

0 

Miguel Gamboa 

Sorry to hear that... 

Like 9y 

Shay Akal 

You are right... The 1-1 has not been used for major power factor for 

quite a while, Most gun builders use more elaborate comps than that. 

Yes, the port sizes were changed a bit, but the concept is the same. The 

funny part is that our phone is ringing off the hook, people are 

recognizing the design, and most people, can not see the differences. If 

you compare the Akai comp to most popular comps, it is a very different 

design. Our goal was a two port comp that is shorter but very effective. 

Every comp out there uses ports and most use bleeder ports. In other 

words, all comps are, basically, the same. Very few use two ports and a 

large bleeder port. The curious part and the one that stands out is that 

we sent the drawings for our comps to them for manufacturing. Right 

after doing our comps, they come up with their comp that hasjust a few 

changes to it. 

Notice they said weeks of development... 

Like 9y 

Chuck Bradley 

Believe it or not STI still uses the T-1 for gmm major. I just had this 

discussion with them. They do P2 for Super and on the short match 

master. Fact is their design is about as much different than yours is from 

STrs design. The part about you sending them plans is more of an issue. 

Maybe yours gave them an idea on how they thought they could 

improve on it as you did with STI's. I still like the bedells or the 3 ports 

on top. In the ends I dont think any make that big of a difference. 

gy 

ShayAkai 

Actually, the STI Ti was not our inspiration. Another comp that you sell 

was our inspiration and we spoke to the designer and respectfully 

explained the differences. We did not manufacture comps for someone 

else and then attempted to improve on them. 

Like 9y 

Angus Hobdell 

Next time talk to us We have the S AXIS lathe you know. 

Like 9y C 

Ian Jones 

Shady stuff, hope it comes back to bite them in the ass. 

Like 9y 

Bobby Keigans 

Actually Shay, I said designed through weeks of fluid engineering 

model development'. Not that the comp was developed in recent weeks, 

but we spent several weeks tweaking the software models. I have a few 

mechanical engineering friends (including a FGW team shooter and 2 of 

my first cousins), even one that specializes in thermofluid dynamics (he's 

a suppressor manufacturer) and we used that technology to make this 

comp the most advanced pistol compensator on the market. 

Fm sorry if you think anyone tried to copy or imitate your comp design 

but that certainly could not be further from the truth. Weve been 

working on this since we shot the Ohio Sectional together in 2010. 

gy 

Bobby Iteigans 

If you'll go look at the photo of the comp posted you can tell they are 

different. As much or more different than yours is compared to anyone 

else. Theres not a single vertical wall anywhere in the comp. 

gy 

Shay Akal 

Bobby, I cleared it with Man Cheely. Cool it. I know all about the nonvertical walls, lol. 

like 95, 

Ryan Davis 

My sti has the ti comp and its not bad once you find a load it likes. I 

found the ti needs a pretty stout load to work. I agree with chuck about 

them not being a whole lot of practical difference between them. For me 

at least once I got the load down even the yi can shoot pretty flat 

Like 9y 

Jimmy Meacham 

Calm down Shay. Don Hardy helped design your comp and I don't see 

him all upset!Ul lol 

like 9y 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 237

of 266
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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 238

of 266
Freedom Gunworks Inc. - Licensed 

07 FFL 

December 6,2012-0 

The most effective pistol compensator available 

anywhere, the Cheely 4 Port Super Comp was 

custom designed through weeks of fluid 

engineering model development and testing. A 

joint effort between Cheely Custom Gunworks 

and Freedom Gunworks making this the most 

effective muzzle device for your Open gun 

platform. 

Having the opportunity to test multiple 

compensator designs back to back on identical 

guns with the same ammo, I've often 

recommended the Brazos Thundercomp 11to my 

customers as I found it to shoot softer and flatter 

in testing. The CCG 4 Port Super Comp exceeds 

any other compensator design in effectiveness. 

Through fluid engineering, we can map out the 

dynamics of the gas flow and alter the path of 

the gas for the most effective usage of the gas. 

This compensator has conical shaped ports with 

3 dimensional contouring and angles purposely 

designed to control the direction of the muzzle 

blast gasses in the appropriate manner to keep 

the gun shooting flat. We use a series of larger 

ports to dump masses amounts of gas as rapidly 

as possible to counteract the muzzle lift. With 

Titanium construction, we can keep the mass to a 

minimum that is hanging on the end of the 

barrel. Reduced mass allows for better timing and 

has less impact on the bbl itself. It also takes 

some of the whipping effect out of the muzzle of 

the gun on rapid start and stop transitions. 

The Cheely 4 Port Super Comp is available for 

$149.95 

www.ccgunworks.com See less 

with Matt Cheely. 

63 46 Comments 8 Shares 

Like Q Comment 4> Share 

View 38 previous comments 

C Trace Mcdonald 

Hmm... you guys are funny!! I'm 

going to tell on myself here. A few 

weeks aoo, I rushed to clean my 6' 

0-

Freedom Gunworks Inc. - Licensed 

07 FF1. 

December 6,2012-0 

The most effective pistol compensator available 

anywhere, the Cheely 4 Port Super Comp was 

custom designed through weeks of fluid 

engineering model development and testing. A 

joint effort between Cheely Custom Gunworks 

and Freedom Gunworks making this the most 

effective muzzle device for your Open gun 

platform. 

Having the opportunity to test multiple 

compensator designs back to back on identical 

guns with the same ammo, I've often 

recommended the Brazos Thundercomp 11to my 

customers as I found it to shoot softer and flatter 

in testing. The CCG 4 Port Super Comp exceeds 

any other compensator design in effectiveness. 

Through fluid engineering, we can map out the 

dynamics of the gas flow and alter the path of 

the gas for the most effective usage of the gas. 

This compensator has conical shaped ports with 

3 dimensional contouring and angles purposely 

designed to control the direction of the muzzle 

blast gasses in the appropriate manner to keep 

the gun shooting flat. We use a series of larger 

ports to dump masses amounts of gas as rapidly 

as possible to counteract the muzzle lift. With 

Titanium construction, we can keep the mass to a 

minimum that is hanging on the end of the 

barrel. Reduced mass allows for better timing and 

has less impact on the bbl itself. It also takes 

some of the whipping effect out of the muzzle of 

the gun on rapid start and stop transitions. 

The Cheely 4 Port Super Comp is available for 

$149.95 

www.ccgunworks.com See less 

with Matt Cheely. 

63 46 Comments 8 Shares 

Like Q Comment 4> Share 

View 38 previous comments 

C Trace Mcdonald 

Hmm... you guys are funnyll rn 

going to tell on myself here. A few 

weeks ago, I rushed to clean my 6 

0-

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 239

of 266
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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 240

of 266
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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 241

of 266
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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 242

of 266
Magwell Inserts Ice STI, SV 2011 by Dawson Precision 

* 2Reviews IM one 

G oc 

Color: Required 

Black 

White 

$19.99 

Quantity 1 ADD TO CART 

ADD TO WISHLIST 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 243

of 266
\1 

CHEELY CUSTOM GUNWORKS 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 244

of 266
HEEL' 

Cheely Custom Gunworks 

September 30, 2019 

Looking for a barrel for your next pistol build? We've got you covered, 

including a few special spiral fluted barrels in stock! 

ccgunworks.com/pistol-parts/top-of-the-gun/barrels/ 

320 110 - 

People reached Engagements Distribution score 

Boost post 

HEEL' 

Cheely Custom Gunworks 

September 30, 2019 

Looking for a barrel for your next pistol build? We've got you covered, 

including a few special spiral fluted barrels in stock! 

ccgunworks.com/pistol-parts/top-of-the-gun/barrels/ 

320 110 - 

People reached Engagements Distribution score 

Boost post 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 245

of 266
Matt Cheely 

December 4.2019 . 

That KKM Hybrid barrel really pops in contrast to the black slide. 

Matt Cheely 

December 4. 2019 .Lt 

That KKM Hybrid barrel really pops in contrast to the black slide. 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 246

of 266
Matt Cheely <matt@ccgunworks.com>

Bbl testing

1 message

Matt Cheely <matt@ccgunworks.com> Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 2:51 PM

To: luke@kkmprecision.com

Luke,

Did you get a chance to look at the two barrels I sent you last week? Just wondered what they came in at on your

tester.

- Matt

CC Gunworks Mail - Bbl testing https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=f7deb6de4c&view=pt&search=all...

1 of 1 2/10/2022, 1:35 PM

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 247

of 266
b dlthfl yttl,.t OIP 'a 

I thIkd *Ith R!Itk*iIIlFbIId. SY &I p.,IS 

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Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 248

of 266
John Vileger 

Active 4m ago 

10/9)17, 4:57 PM 

Matt, Bobby seems to be ignoring me to an extent. Could I get your opinion on what 

happened to my gun? I've gotten opinions from other smiths but would like to know 

what you think happened. I was running 172 P19mm major, 1.170 OAL 6.9 grains 

auto comp, CO SRP 

9 pound recoil spring. 

Barrel appears undamaged, except for the lugs are rounded. 

1019/17. 9:45 PM 

From the sideway shot of the pistol together, it looks like the barrel is cracked. Over 

pressure. I have never seen a slide crack like that without an over pressure situation. 

Barrel is not cracked as far as I can tell pit _ 

John Vileger 

Active 4m ago 

10/9)17, 4:57 PM 

Matt, Bobby seems to be ignoring me to an extent. Could I get your opinion on what 

happened to my gun? I've gotten opinions from other smiths but would like to know 

what you think happened. I was running 172 P19mm major, 1.170 OAL 6.9 grains 

auto comp, CO SRP 

9 pound recoil spring. 

Barrel appears undamaged, except for the lugs are rounded. 

1019/17. 9:45 PM 

From the sideway shot of the pistol together, it looks like the barrel is cracked. Over 

pressure. I have never seen a slide crack like that without an over pressure situation. 

Barrel is not cracked as far as I can tell pit _ 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 249

of 266
John Vlieger 

14. Active An, ago 

From the sideway shot of the pistol together, it looks like the barrel is cracked. Over 

pressure. I have never seen a slide crack like that without an over pressure situation. 

Barrel is not cracked as far as I can tell 

c9 flfll !1 E'ThTWfl 11111' 

Case that was extracted was normal. Video shows no abnormal shots and no recoil 

difference was felt until the last shot with no return to battery 

My load is 6.9 grains WAC, 124 PD JHP, 1.170, CCI SIP 

Powder checked every 200 rounds 

Had to best the slide into battery with a hammer to take it apart. 

Bear 

0 •How .i wp,II.rr!Tlnaq4.]athat sin!1 ce

It has about 40k on the barrel total. 15k on this slide. I didn't have the gun but like 2 

months when it was replaced the first time. Maybe 2 or 3 K on it for first slide 

replacement 

So 30k on the low end 

John Vlieger 

14. Active An, ago 

From the sideway shot of the pistol together, it looks like the barrel is cracked. Over 

pressure. I have never seen a slide crack like that without an over pressure situation. 

Barrel is not cracked as far as I can tell 

c9 flfll !1 E'ThTWfl 11111' 

Case that was extracted was normal. Video shows no abnormal shots and no recoil 

difference was felt until the last shot with no return to battery 

My load is 6.9 grains WAC, 124 PD JHP, 1.170, CCI SIP 

Powder checked every 200 rounds 

Had to best the slide into battery with a hammer to take it apart. 

Bear 

0 •How .i wp,II.rr!Tlnaq4.]athat sin!1 ce

It has about 40k on the barrel total. 15k on this slide. I didn't have the gun but like 2 

months when it was replaced the first time. Maybe 2 or 3 K on it for first slide 

replacement 

So 30k on the low end 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 250

of 266
John Vlieger 

Active Sm ago 

,a uuItI ,, tAc.t J,uuutu,ovct, C9u. uUt.Irct 

months when it was replaced the first time. Maybe 2 o 3 K on it for first slide 

replacement 

So 30k on the low end 

Yep. And the other two did as well. One of which was an sti I won at a match 

What do you want us to do about it? 3 slides on it so tar? I gotta chalk some of that 

up to hard, hard use. 

It is racing. When I race my motorcycles, if your built race engine blows up 2 days in, 

its a cost of racing 

I want this all to work out but at some point, we cannot keep rebuilding a gun 

forever. 

IT take credit for one of them, and did so by providing the slide that was fitted to it. I 

have been a proud supporter of CK Arms throughout my open seasons, and still am. I 

have won area championships and state titles with it as proof. Have placed at 

Nationals, with stage wins to boot, and would have taken top ten if not for my altec 

breaking in half. I was told it has a lifetime warranty when it was purchased and I feel 

that this breakage was out of my control. My ammo was in spec, I was running the 

recommended load, recommended recoil spring, and had done zero to the slide, 

frame, and barrel myself. All of it was done by Bobby. It was in his hands for a comp 

reset not a week ago. I have asked multiple people to keep comments about this 

incident off of Facebook to protect the image of CK Arms, just like I have in the past. 

John Vlieger 

Active Sm ago 

,a uuItI ,, tAc.t J,uuutu,ovct, C9u. uUt.Irct 

months when it was replaced the first time. Maybe 2 o 3 K on it for first slide 

replacement 

So 30k on the low end 

Yep. And the other two did as well. One of which was an sti I won at a match 

What do you want us to do about it? 3 slides on it so tar? I gotta chalk some of that 

up to hard, hard use. 

It is racing. When I race my motorcycles, if your built race engine blows up 2 days in, 

its a cost of racing 

I want this all to work out but at some point, we cannot keep rebuilding a gun 

forever. 

IT take credit for one of them, and did so by providing the slide that was fitted to it. I 

have been a proud supporter of CK Arms throughout my open seasons, and still am. I 

have won area championships and state titles with it as proof. Have placed at 

Nationals, with stage wins to boot, and would have taken top ten if not for my altec 

breaking in half. I was told it has a lifetime warranty when it was purchased and I feel 

that this breakage was out of my control. My ammo was in spec, I was running the 

recommended load, recommended recoil spring, and had done zero to the slide, 

frame, and barrel myself. All of it was done by Bobby. It was in his hands for a comp 

reset not a week ago. I have asked multiple people to keep comments about this 

incident off of Facebook to protect the image of CK Arms, just like I have in the past. 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 251

of 266
14) John Vlieger 

Active Sm ago 

Nationals, with stage wins to boot, and would have taken top ten if not for my aftec 

breaking in half. I was told it has a lifetime warranty when it was purchased and I feel 

that this breakage was out of my control. My ammo was in spec, I was running the 

recommended load, recommended recoil spring, and had done zero to the slide, 

frame, and barrel myself. All of it was done by Bobby. It was in his hands for a comp 

reset not a week ago. I have asked multiple people to keep comments about this 

incident off of Facebook to protect the image of CK Arms, just like I have in the past. 

I may be hard on equipment but I'm not abusive. I also shoot more rounds in a year 

than most. More than half of those rounds at major matches all over the country. I've 

used that gun in around 40 majors in the last two years. I've used it for its purpose. 

I've volunteered to cover costs that I probably didn't have to. I've done everything in 

my power to go along with you and Bobby's recommendations. I don't see how this 

is a different case. I have also asked multiple other gunsmiths. Eddie Garcia and 

Brandan Bunker for example, what they think the cause of this failure was, and both 

agree it was either the slidejust gave up, or it was a timing issue. The wear on the 

barrel and slide lugs being the indication. I would like you to replace what is broken 

so I may continue to do what I have been doing with the gun 

110 

Its a limited lifetime warranty, not a true "lifetime . The gun cannot be fixed forever. I 

hope you do realize that. After look rounds, one of these pistols is near the end of 

it's life. 

It is certainly possible to rebuild when the top end is totally worn out, but to expect 

that to come with the purchase price of the pistols is unreasonable. 

Bobby is telling me that he told you the warranty was done the last time he replaced 

the slide, 

Matt, I have dealt almost exclusively with Bobby and most of this. I started in open 

uneducated on a lot of things and have done a lot of learning along the way. I have 

been told my ammo is wrong, when I see other people running it. I've been told that 

the powder I'm using caused some of the slide failures, which we later found out was 

most likely false. I've been told that I should use a 9 pound spring when I see almost 

no one else running that weight. I'm attempting to be a top level competitor in this 

sport, and like to think I've done a good job of accomplishing that. All along the way 

I've been attempting to do what Bobby recommended so that my gun wouldn't 

break. And it still broke. As of the first shots of ky state this weekend the only original 

parts on it were the barrel, comp, sight mount, and slide stop. Grip and FCG because 

of personal preference, fitted by Ryan Spencer. The rest have broken. The comp has 

been reset no less than 5 times. And I've shot maybe 40k through it. 

14) John Vlieger 

Active Sm ago 

Nationals, with stage wins to boot, and would have taken top ten if not for my aftec 

breaking in half. I was told it has a lifetime warranty when it was purchased and I feel 

that this breakage was out of my control. My ammo was in spec, I was running the 

recommended load, recommended recoil spring, and had done zero to the slide, 

frame, and barrel myself. All of it was done by Bobby. It was in his hands for a comp 

reset not a week ago. I have asked multiple people to keep comments about this 

incident off of Facebook to protect the image of CK Arms, just like I have in the past. 

I may be hard on equipment but I'm not abusive. I also shoot more rounds in a year 

than most. More than half of those rounds at major matches all over the country. I've 

used that gun in around 40 majors in the last two years. I've used it for its purpose. 

I've volunteered to cover costs that I probably didn't have to. I've done everything in 

my power to go along with you and Bobby's recommendations. I don't see how this 

is a different case. I have also asked multiple other gunsmiths. Eddie Garcia and 

Brandan Bunker for example, what they think the cause of this failure was, and both 

agree it was either the slidejust gave up, or it was a timing issue. The wear on the 

barrel and slide lugs being the indication. I would like you to replace what is broken 

so I may continue to do what I have been doing with the gun 

110 

Its a limited lifetime warranty, not a true "lifetime . The gun cannot be fixed forever. I 

hope you do realize that. After look rounds, one of these pistols is near the end of 

it's life. 

It is certainly possible to rebuild when the top end is totally worn out, but to expect 

that to come with the purchase price of the pistols is unreasonable. 

Bobby is telling me that he told you the warranty was done the last time he replaced 

the slide, 

Matt, I have dealt almost exclusively with Bobby and most of this. I started in open 

uneducated on a lot of things and have done a lot of learning along the way. I have 

been told my ammo is wrong, when I see other people running it. I've been told that 

the powder I'm using caused some of the slide failures, which we later found out was 

most likely false. I've been told that I should use a 9 pound spring when I see almost 

no one else running that weight. I'm attempting to be a top level competitor in this 

sport, and like to think I've done a good job of accomplishing that. All along the way 

I've been attempting to do what Bobby recommended so that my gun wouldn't 

break. And it still broke. As of the first shots of ky state this weekend the only original 

parts on it were the barrel, comp, sight mount, and slide stop. Grip and FCG because 

of personal preference, fitted by Ryan Spencer. The rest have broken. The comp has 

been reset no less than 5 times. And I've shot maybe 40k through it. 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 252

of 266
John Vlieger 

Active Gm ago 

sport, and like to think I've done a good job of accomplishing that All along the way 

I've been attempting to do what Bobby recommended so that my gun wouldn t 

break. And it still broke. As of the first shots of ky state this weekend the only original 

parts on it were the barrel, comp, sight mount, and slide stop. Grip and FCG because 

of personal preference, fined by Ryan Spencer. The rest have broken. The comp has 

been reset no less than 5 times. And I've shot maybe 40k through it. 

All the while I've been exactly what Bobby wanted me to be. A winner with his gun. A 

gun that works when others don't. I won area B because my gun worked and others 

didn't. But when this happens, something out of the norm. A non squib, non 

overcharge situation where the slide cracks so hard you can see daylight through it, 

I'm expected to accept what you're telling me? When Bobby wont even call me to 

explain? 

U'4 

•i 'p 

U7fll1flflIflflfljjfljflj. 

I respect the hell out of you and Bobby. I mean that. You two have done an amazing 

thing. And yes, I understand. 

Ul7flI ee t!iTifli!i1 

., 11 ifl la1I t.)lna''twliIIlc bgys.t.I 'p.' 

That would be fine. I'll be available after 730 central 

910-568-8926 

10/10/17,8:34 PM 

I' 

John Vlieger 

Active Gm ago 

sport, and like to think I've done a good job of accomplishing that All along the way 

I've been attempting to do what Bobby recommended so that my gun wouldn t 

break. And it still broke. As of the first shots of ky state this weekend the only original 

parts on it were the barrel, comp, sight mount, and slide stop. Grip and FCG because 

of personal preference, fined by Ryan Spencer. The rest have broken. The comp has 

been reset no less than 5 times. And I've shot maybe 40k through it. 

All the while I've been exactly what Bobby wanted me to be. A winner with his gun. A 

gun that works when others don't. I won area B because my gun worked and others 

didn't. But when this happens, something out of the norm. A non squib, non 

overcharge situation where the slide cracks so hard you can see daylight through it, 

I'm expected to accept what you're telling me? When Bobby wont even call me to 

explain? 

U'4 

•i 'p 

U7fll1flflIflflfljjfljflj. 

I respect the hell out of you and Bobby. I mean that. You two have done an amazing 

thing. And yes, I understand. 

Ul7flI ee t!iTifli!i1 

., 11 ifl la1I t.)lna''twliIIlc bgys.t.I 'p.' 

That would be fine. I'll be available after 730 central 

910-568-8926 

10/10/17,8:34 PM 

I' 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 253

of 266
John Vileger 

Active 7m ago 

- - 

910-568-8926 

10110/11, 8:34 PM 

Available when you are 

10/10/17 9:00 PM 

9 Thanks 

th 

10/11/17,11:26 AM 

John, I talked to Bobby about what we spoke about on the phone last night This is a 

1Gw gun, even if it had a CC style slide put on it I told him I would give him a new 

slide for the gun. I am not sure what he s going to do, but its in his court now. 

10/12f]7,7:15 PM 

I would love to talk with him. He seems to be avoiding my calls 

• fl..iri.i*iratl71TI!Tflhi 

cn lllIfl 

Talking to him now. Thanks 

John Vileger 

Active 7m ago 

- - 

910-568-8926 

10110/11, 8:34 PM 

Available when you are 

10/10/17 9:00 PM 

9 Thanks 

th 

10/11/17,11:26 AM 

John, I talked to Bobby about what we spoke about on the phone last night This is a 

1Gw gun, even if it had a CC style slide put on it I told him I would give him a new 

slide for the gun. I am not sure what he s going to do, but its in his court now. 

10/12f]7,7:15 PM 

I would love to talk with him. He seems to be avoiding my calls 

• fl..iri.i*iratl71TI!Tflhi 

cn lllIfl 

Talking to him now. Thanks 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 254

of 266
vi Untitled-Paint 

O etA a 

Clipboard linac. Tools trashes Shapes tize Colon EdLt with 

Paint 3D 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 255

of 266
1:12 V 

Jar' 7 p ≥OO 7 G 

I'm ready for the off season 

drama to be done and just focus 

on training Need to build up new 

callouses with your grips. I have 

the testing protocol from KKM, 

BTW. Want me to send it to you in 

the morning? 

I akeSy have it from Luke 

Good to hear. At bare minimum 

this BS will educate people. 

'bth. Most peop'e don't ww

how in depth It is to measure 

properly 

Including Shay 

Jan M 2020 ¶055W 

You got plans for a holosun SlOc 

mount? 

upposeft But thugs keep 

getting in the way 

00 

4O-r 405 OOOI 

1:12 V 

Jar' 7 p ≥OO 7 G 

I'm ready for the off season 

drama to be done and just focus 

on training Need to build up new 

callouses with your grips. I have 

the testing protocol from KKM, 

BTW. Want me to send it to you in 

the morning? 

I akeSy have it from Luke 

Good to hear. At bare minimum 

this BS will educate people. 

'bth. Most peop'e don't ww

how in depth It is to measure 

properly 

Including Shay 

Jan M 2020 ¶055W 

You got plans for a holosun SlOc 

mount? 

upposeft But thugs keep 

getting in the way 

00 

4O-r 405 OOOI 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 256

of 266
1:12 

4 Phone 

Ao •6. p 2020 176W 

Found out that Shay is most likely 

getting your grips through Atlas 

Ohreely 

Supposedly Atlas modifies em to 

work the vario triggers, too. Don t 

know what all that entails 

Ttrs how I cUt them for AtbsThey special oider

Buddy of mine just had an E2 grip 

added to his old AkaL With a vario 

trigger 

Shay did the work. 

AD, 74 2070 10" 

You have any plans to make a 

Para Ordnance mag release? We 

get asked for one every other 

week 

00 •1 

' oc000i 

1:12 

4 Phone 

Ao •6. p 2020 176W 

Found out that Shay is most likely 

getting your grips through Atlas 

Ohreely 

Supposedly Atlas modifies em to 

work the vario triggers, too. Don t 

know what all that entails 

Ttrs how I cUt them for AtbsThey special oider

Buddy of mine just had an E2 grip 

added to his old AkaL With a vario 

trigger 

Shay did the work. 

AD, 74 2070 10" 

You have any plans to make a 

Para Ordnance mag release? We 

get asked for one every other 

week 

00 •1 

' oc000i 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 257

of 266
Dame Michael 

Active now 

His lawyer(Roys buddy) blocked me on tb after I made the C&D joke on tarrs post 

about butler 

'to 

Half the times he bought grips his credit card would be declined and Id have to run 

it later in the week. Its like it was always maxed out or etc 

2018 shay defaulted on a property 250i5 K 

Bank of America had to sue him to pay that credit card 

Little over 5 on that one 

We keep pushing on it 

I thought luke cao was the nail in the coffin 

We're going to find the right thread eventually 

() His next company is already set up. Akai manufacturing 

) Would you be ok with that in a $7000 ish build 

C) 

Closer you look the worse it gets 

Ever see tungsten gouge like that? 

2/10/20,7:59 PM 

e'tnm I M TT ii." a.i V!T7 - 

a'rn?iflflTifll 

p 

Thats just hokey shit trying to make it sound like it shoots better. Just build a good 

damn pistol which that is obviously not 

Dame Michael 

Active now 

His lawyer(Roys buddy) blocked me on tb after I made the C&D joke on tarrs post 

about butler 

'to 

Half the times he bought grips his credit card would be declined and Id have to run 

it later in the week. Its like it was always maxed out or etc 

2018 shay defaulted on a property 250i5 K 

Bank of America had to sue him to pay that credit card 

Little over 5 on that one 

We keep pushing on it 

I thought luke cao was the nail in the coffin 

We're going to find the right thread eventually 

() His next company is already set up. Akai manufacturing 

) Would you be ok with that in a $7000 ish build 

C) 

Closer you look the worse it gets 

Ever see tungsten gouge like that? 

2/10/20,7:59 PM 

e'tnm I M TT ii." a.i V!T7 - 

a'rn?iflflTifll 

p 

Thats just hokey shit trying to make it sound like it shoots better. Just build a good 

damn pistol which that is obviously not 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 258

of 266
Dame Michael 

Active now 

--

) Would you be ok with that in a $7000 ish build 

2/10/20,7-.58 PM 

CD 

Closer you look the worse it gets 

() Ever see tungsten gouge like that? 

That s just hokey shit flying to make it sound like it shoots better. Just build a good 

damn pistol which that is obviously not 

C) When baker won flats with and akai' it had none of shays innovation in it 

C) 

His comp, no stroking, nova ports 

But he keeps that quite 

Dame Michael 

Active now 

--

) Would you be ok with that in a $7000 ish build 

2/10/20,7-.58 PM 

CD 

Closer you look the worse it gets 

() Ever see tungsten gouge like that? 

That s just hokey shit flying to make it sound like it shoots better. Just build a good 

damn pistol which that is obviously not 

C) When baker won flats with and akai' it had none of shays innovation in it 

C) 

His comp, no stroking, nova ports 

But he keeps that quite 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 259

of 266
4- Q ChaMpinCuc... t., 

Notifications for this conversation are 

off. 

SS& S% ILI U L fl!II 

Bobie keycans 

E 0 

TURN ON 

Chuck makes very few, but yes 

I talked to Luke, owner of KKM 

They buy huge pallets of 

416R, rods 

Heat treat them, cut a hockey 

pock oft test it, the machine 

Barrels never get tested again 

Kart rough cuts, heat treats 

individual barrels, test them 

and then finish machine 

Makes more sense? 

Individual KKM barrel will 

have a 4 RC point swing on 

the same barrel 

FRIA 7 P 

4- Q ChaMpinCuc... t., 

Notifications for this conversation are 

off. 

SS& S% ILI U L fl!II 

Bobie keycans 

E 0 

TURN ON 

Chuck makes very few, but yes 

I talked to Luke, owner of KKM 

They buy huge pallets of 

416R, rods 

Heat treat them, cut a hockey 

pock oft test it, the machine 

Barrels never get tested again 

Kart rough cuts, heat treats 

individual barrels, test them 

and then finish machine 

Makes more sense? 

Individual KKM barrel will 

have a 4 RC point swing on 

the same barrel 

FRIA 7 P 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 260

of 266
t9 Dame Michael 

Active now 

10/27119,7:23 PM 

C) 

0 

S000000, soft barrel gate 

Shays metallurgy lab is Hendricks motor sports. 2 

Still dont know his angle yet 

WTF, really? I was going to get some barrels I have on had tested 

So he says 

Him and chuck tested at his place and got same numbers with his hardness tester 

So hes claiming 

You didnt see this 

4Qt...e 

::*, • 

I find it hard to believe that 1 CO's of barrels were incorrect. They get hardened well 

into the mfg process. 

(j And only in process builds were affected 

They gotta start with a 2? Round blank If they machine it all hard, you couldn't 

through harden that deep. They gotta at least rough it out first. 

Shay knows everything dude 

How else can hejustify his prices 

t9 Dame Michael 

Active now 

10/27119,7:23 PM 

C) 

0 

S000000, soft barrel gate 

Shays metallurgy lab is Hendricks motor sports. 2 

Still dont know his angle yet 

WTF, really? I was going to get some barrels I have on had tested 

So he says 

Him and chuck tested at his place and got same numbers with his hardness tester 

So hes claiming 

You didnt see this 

4Qt...e 

::*, • 

I find it hard to believe that 1 CO's of barrels were incorrect. They get hardened well 

into the mfg process. 

(j And only in process builds were affected 

They gotta start with a 2? Round blank If they machine it all hard, you couldn't 

through harden that deep. They gotta at least rough it out first. 

Shay knows everything dude 

How else can hejustify his prices 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 261

of 266
Dame Michael 

Acttve now 

How else can he justify his prices 

its not the machining quality 

C) Oh you know about sti killing its race gun line? 

() Sales not there 

• Michael forwarded a link 

C) 

C) 

ST] Discontinues Open Guns 

Say good bye to STls line of pistols 

Brazos Custom Gunworks - Licensed 07 FIL 

Just confirmed with tony 

Thats like the majority of their line up though. How can they axe it? 

No Edge ish model any morn. Dang man. They must be killin it with the Staccato 

then 

I'm sure that's part of it 

Why pay for a dvc when it ain't much more for a buuld 

Build 

C) Turns out they couldn't move edges last few years 

10/31/19 4,05 PM 

Or all us custom builders are taking all their business 

Dame Michael 

Acttve now 

How else can he justify his prices 

its not the machining quality 

C) Oh you know about sti killing its race gun line? 

() Sales not there 

• Michael forwarded a link 

C) 

C) 

ST] Discontinues Open Guns 

Say good bye to STls line of pistols 

Brazos Custom Gunworks - Licensed 07 FIL 

Just confirmed with tony 

Thats like the majority of their line up though. How can they axe it? 

No Edge ish model any morn. Dang man. They must be killin it with the Staccato 

then 

I'm sure that's part of it 

Why pay for a dvc when it ain't much more for a buuld 

Build 

C) Turns out they couldn't move edges last few years 

10/31/19 4,05 PM 

Or all us custom builders are taking all their business 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 262

of 266
Dame Michael 

Active now 

10/31119,4:05 PM 

S Michael forwarded a message 

0I 

htlpsj//wwwbu nkerarms.com/opg/lestin 

parts?thcl:d= lwAR3SnFqwyff3JASgrjas4p3coHSTJiMB7aSYXDlSqRO4jiDfuKbMffY5xg8 

!4' rl7riTII i.flFmr'r.,'C? Ia:4ulT17rlt.IirluIg 

(3 My understanding is shay used to lean on him for help. But now he shit talks him 

12/9/19 9:16 PM 

12110/19, 6:10 AM 

(3 You get todays fuckery news? 

C) 

C) 

12)10119. &OOAM 

Shay is going after shooters connection for 1 million in damages 

Kkm was going to replace all his barrels for him but he refused to send them back, so 

instead he goes after the person that sold them, rather than the person who made 

them 

Says the letter his lawyer sent isjust an insurance formality 

Like in a car accident 

cfl 

LOL 

Dame Michael 

Active now 

10/31119,4:05 PM 

S Michael forwarded a message 

0I 

htlpsj//wwwbu nkerarms.com/opg/lestin 

parts?thcl:d= lwAR3SnFqwyff3JASgrjas4p3coHSTJiMB7aSYXDlSqRO4jiDfuKbMffY5xg8 

!4' rl7riTII i.flFmr'r.,'C? Ia:4ulT17rlt.IirluIg 

(3 My understanding is shay used to lean on him for help. But now he shit talks him 

12/9/19 9:16 PM 

12110/19, 6:10 AM 

(3 You get todays fuckery news? 

C) 

C) 

12)10119. &OOAM 

Shay is going after shooters connection for 1 million in damages 

Kkm was going to replace all his barrels for him but he refused to send them back, so 

instead he goes after the person that sold them, rather than the person who made 

them 

Says the letter his lawyer sent isjust an insurance formality 

Like in a car accident 

cfl 

LOL 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 263

of 266
r nr 

oIj 11 

I Ii 

I it 

o fl;: *A cd Ll 

'7 

.sL1'r r nr 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 264

of 266
11/9/22, 2:14 PM Screenshot_2022-08-17-21-31-35-91_a23b203fd3aafc6dcb84e438dda678b6.jpg

https://drive.google.com/drive/search?q=bobby keigans 1/1

C Joshua Hamilton and 4 others > EO 

wiii LIr,t r%epiy 

Chuck Warner 

David Joseph Panciotti, 

Shooters. 

9m Like Reply 

ALN 

wo David Joseph Panciotti 

Chuck Warner 

Are they sponsored by 

anyone? Maybe their 

sponsors would like to know 

about this if they are 

sponsored. 

8m Like Reply 

Write a reply... 

(Write a reply... 

Bobby Keigans 

Both Dame and Mekosh are trolls. 

Shady Horrowitz is a shiester. I don't 

know about your friends nor your 

enemies, but not 1 of those 3 can be 

trusted by anyone. I've seen what 

they do to their "friends". 

8m Reply 

) 

) 

Write a comment... 

'1 0 0 

C Joshua Hamilton and 4 others > EO 

lullu LilW reply 

Chuck Warner 

David Joseph Panciotti, 

Shooters. 

9m Like Reply 

David Joseph Panciotti 

Chuck Warner 

Are they sponsored by 

anyone? Maybe their 

sponsors would like to know 

about this if they are 

sponsored. 

8m Like Reply 

Write a reply... 

(Write a reply... 

Bobby Keigans 

Both Dame and Mekosh are trolls. 

Shady Horrowitz is a shiester. I don't 

know about your friends nor your 

enemies, but not 1 of those 3 can be 

trusted by anyone. I've seen what 

they do to their "friends". 

8m Reply 

) 

) 

Write a comment... 

'1 0 0 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 265

of 266
11/9/22, 2:17 PM Keigans 2.jpg

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1cg28qeX_YjaHqdJF0vSSEvaodD2UaVjW 1/1

Myths about "stroking" a 2011 pistol 

6,714 views 

Published on Aug 7, 2014• We discuss the myths and 

fallacies of "stroking" a 1911/2011 style pistol. 

Category People & Blogs 

License Standard YouTube License 

1b22 API 11 

kgunzll 

489 subscribers 

S 

v' Subscribed 

Why Men Over 40 Need 

Abs 

Ad Six Pack Shortcuts 

kale l flflL/ views 

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Myths about "stroking" a 2011 pistol 

6,714 views 

Published on Aug 7, 2014• We discuss the myths and 

fallacies of "stroking" a 1911/2011 style pistol. 

Category People & Blogs 

License Standard YouTube License 

1b22 API 11 

kgunzll 

489 subscribers 

S 

v' Subscribed 

Why Men Over 40 Need 

Abs 

Ad Six Pack Shortcuts 

kale l flflL/ views 

1 I4oz trigger job in a 

1911 

kgunzll 

21K views 

. 

Case 0:20-cv-61469-RS Document 207-207 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2023 Page 266

of 266