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CUAC/CWAF ASRAC Working Group Meeting

 - - -

 Thursday, May 21, 2015

 - - -

 Department of Energy

 950 L'Enfant Plaza

 7th Floor

 Washington, D.C. 20585

AUDIO TRANSCRIBED BY KYLIE S. SHEPHERD
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2 Edward D. Bantle

3 James Battaglia

4 Pete Cochran

5 Katie Coughlin

6 John Cymbalsky

7 Adam Darmington

8 Andrew deLaski

9 Jeff del Toro

10 Paul L. Doppel

11 Chandara Gollapudi

12 Eileen Barkas Hoffman

13 Jill C. Hootman

14 Marshall Hunt

15 John Hurst

16 Christopher Lau

17 Michael J. McCabe

18 Charlie McCrudden

19 Karen Meyers

20 Nicholas Mislak

21 Mike Ray

22 Greg Rosenquist
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)

2 Harvey Sachs, Ph.D.

3 Michael E. Shows - via webinar

4 Louis Starr

5 Mark Terzigni

6 Rusty Tharp

7 Meg Waltner - via webinar

8 Detlef Westphalen

9 Robert J. Whitwell

10 Alison Williams

11 Linda Wilson

12 Dave Winningham

13 Xing Xu

14 Sami Zendah

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 MR. BANTLE: Okay. Good morning, everybody.

3 Ted Bantle from FMCS.

4 We'll get started now. We do have quorum at 12

5 people. So the first thing we'll do as always is we'll

6 take attendance. We're a little comfortable in this

7 room, so let's do the main table first, and then we'll do

8 the working group members to my left, and then we can do

9 the Navigant and the DOE individuals.

10 So I'll start off: Ted Bantle from FMCS.

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: John Cymbalsky, DOE.

12 MS. WALTNER: Meg Waltner, NRDC.

13 MR. SHOWS: Mike Shows, UL.

14 MR. THARP: Rusty Tharp with Goodman.

15 MR. WINNINGHAM: Dave Winningham, Allied Air.

16 MR. HUNT: Marshall Hunt, Pacific Gas and

17 Electric.

18 MR. WHITWELL: Bob Whitwell, Carrier.

19 MR. DOPPEL: Paul Doppel, Mitsubishi Electric.

20 MS. MEYERS: Karen Meyers, Rheem.

21 MR. SACHS: Harvey Sachs, ACEEE.

22 MS. HOOTMAN: Jill Hootman, Trane.
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1 MR. ZENDAH: Sami Zendah of Emerson.

2 MR. McCABE: Michael McCabe, consultant to

3 Trane.

4 MR. HURST: John Hurst, Lennox.

5 MR. COCHRAN: Pete Cochran, DOE.

6 MR. BATTAGLIA: James Battaglia, Navigant.

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: Detlef Westphalen, Navigant.

8 MS. COUGHLIN: Katie Coughlin, Lawrence Berkeley

9 Lab.

10 MR. ROSENQUIST: Greg Rosenquist, LBNL.

11 MR. BANTLE: Jeremiah, anybody on the webinar?

12 MALE SPEAKER: Charlie McCrudden actually just

13 joined, but I (inaudible).

14 MR. BANTLE: Okay. Thank you. Good morning,

15 Charlie.

16 MR. McCRUDDEN: Good morning. Can you hear me?

17 MR. BANTLE: Yeah.

18 FEMALE SPEAKER: Sure can.

19 MALE SPEAKER: Pretty good.

20 MR. McCRUDDEN: All right. Well, I'll be there

21 soon. I'm in my car.

22 MR. BANTLE: No problem. Thank you.
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1 Anybody else, Jeremiah?

2 MALE SPEAKER: We have Christopher Lau, Jeff del

3 Toro, Linda Wilson, and Mike Ray.

4 MR. BANTLE: Okay. Thank you. You want to

5 start with any comments?

6 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah. There's no mics like

7 usual in the room, so some of us have loud voices, some

8 of us don't, but I think if we all speak to this volume,

9 he'll pick it up and the webinar will pick us up.

10 MR. BANTLE: There are some mics.

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: There are? Oh, there are.

12 Okay. But not the usual, you know, hit the button kind

13 of mic. So just try to speak loud so everyone can hear

14 you.

15 So yesterday I think we made really good

16 progress. We voted a few things out in terms of the

17 analysis. We have one last piece to go through, which is

18 the shipments, but before we dive into that, we figured

19 is there any other issue from yesterday people slept on

20 and feel they need to discuss before we head into

21 shipments?

22 We had three more members walk through the door
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1 and another facilitator, so we're going to let them get

2 settled and introduce themselves before we turn it over

3 to Katie for the shipments.

4 MR. WHITWELL: I think, John -- this is Bob

5 Whitwell with Carrier. So this may fall into the

6 category of things like, does it really matter or not, I

7 don't know, but just reflecting back on the discussions

8 of the diffusers.

9 One of -- one of -- actually, it was Jim del

10 Toro who's on the phone -- took a look at that study and

11 found that while at -- the study said that it's 65

12 degrees supply air temperature, all the diffusers worked

13 okay down to a certain level.

14 At 55, there were a couple of those diffusers

15 that were not acceptable according to the criteria that

16 was set in the report. And BAB equipment typically does

17 run at 55-degree supply air temperature.

18 So it's just a -- not sure that we can -- you

19 know, that we can say that all BAB equipment or all

20 constant volume buildings can work with BAB equipment

21 without having the diffusers replaced. Okay. So that's

22 a question in my mind.
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1 The other thing, I'm still looking at the

2 mapping equipment design to CAV and BAB building slides.

3 And it's not clear to me -- there's some CAV buildings

4 that are listed as having SAV designs in there, and in

5 our definitions that we had talked about earlier -- and I

6 think that we had set -- SAV would run down to 60 or 66

7 percent of full load. And yesterday -- and then the BAB

8 can run down farther.

9 Yesterday, Greg, you talked about some of those

10 SAV designs that are running down lower than the

11 60 percent. So again, it's just a little unclear to me

12 whether, you know, should we be looking at those? I

13 mean, we're talking about SAB designs that are running

14 down lower. Are those really BAB designs and have we

15 characterized the cost properly?

16 So, again, I don't know whether this is going to

17 make a big issue. I just, you know, it's just one of the

18 things that I noticed after looking at it some more last

19 night.

20 MR. ROSENQUIST: I can comment on that just for

21 some clarification that for seven-and-a-half tons, none

22 of the equipment designs got below 67 percent staged
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1 airflow, so just want to clarify that. On 15 tons, only

2 EL-4 went to a staged airflow that was below 60 percent,

3 it got --

4 MR. WHITWELL: And I think it was 40 percent you

5 said yesterday.

6 MR. ROSENQUIST: 40 percent for EL-4. EL-5

7 actually had a variable compressor that only went down to

8 67 percent.

9 MR. McCRUDDEN: The statements in the EL-4. So

10 let's -- 167, 40.

11 MR. ROSENQUIST: 160. And then for 30 tons,

12 anything that's BAV -- well, actually really doesn't

13 matter because you have a constant air value equipment

14 design at EL-2.5.

15 But at EL-3, that's a variable air volume you

16 have which gets airflow down to, I think, 25 percentage

17 or something like that.

18 So this is information really that I think the

19 design -- I mean, the efficiency levels that are relevant

20 here are EL-4 for seven-and-a-half tons, and then EL-3

21 for -- EL-4 for 15 tons, and EL-3 and beyond for 30 tons.

22 MR. WHITWELL: Right. That's why I say I don't
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1 know whether it's a big -- how much it's going to impact

2 us because there's only a few that have this case where

3 maybe there should be some additional cost data for

4 diffuser tank. Which -- I mean, it could be substantial.

5 I think it's in the order of several thousand dollars;

6 right?

7 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah.

8 MR. WHITWELL: So again, just something that we

9 may need to come back to. It depends on how things go

10 moving forward.

11 MR. WESTPHALEN: I was just going to say, like

12 for those units where we're talking about the three

13 stages of airflow, that's the one that went down to the

14 40 percent. We would have included additional costs

15 within the equipment cost.

16 MR. WHITWELL: For the control?

17 MR. WESTPHALEN: For the control.

18 MR. WHITWELL: So you really have included the

19 cost for like a BAV unit, but it doesn't have the

20 diffusers?

21 MR. WESTPHALEN: I think you're talking about

22 the down -- the field installation costs.
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1 MR. WHITWELL: Yes, yes. So we're missing that

2 extra field installation cost for the diffusers there.

3 MR. STARR: This is Louis with NEEA. So one

4 thing to note on the supply air temperature, it has three

5 stages. So typically the discharge air as you stage down

6 to lower airflows, your air temperature is no longer 55.

7 It's not 65 -- I'll agree with that -- but it stages down

8 to a lower temperature.

9 But that's actually kind of a question I was

10 asking yesterday with the manufacturers is at those

11 different stages in your three-stage equipment of 167 --

12 well, and actually is this even three-stage equipment

13 within the BAB system or it's the 167 and 40 percent that

14 we're talking about possibly having diffusers with; is

15 that correct?

16 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah. We are working under the

17 assumption the previous week that any time you get below

18 60 percent, you're at a place where that diffuser

19 wouldn't be able to accommodate --

20 MR. STARR: So if the manufacturers knew what

21 the discharge air temperatures were off that equipment.

22 That equipment typically -- whoever has that three-stage
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1 equipment, that would help you understand? Because if

2 the discharge air -- I don't think it's at 55, I'm pretty

3 sure that at light load, you typically want to -- you set

4 your air temperature up because you have a lighter load

5 at your design flow when you have, you know, it's 100

6 degrees outside and you produce 55 air. Whether that is

7 a stage up, it typically stage up to warmer air such that

8 the air coming out of the diffuser is not, you know,

9 super cold and it's going to dump.

10 But that would be something -- kind of something

11 to think about there. So what the manufacturer could do

12 is look at their units and see what their typical

13 discharge air temperature is and see how that matches up

14 with the study.

15 MR. BANTLE: Just because I think we did have

16 four working group members join us in the room and one

17 facilitator, if you could all introduce yourselves just

18 for the record. While we -- those who just joined?

19 MR. MISLAK: Nick Mislak, AHRI.

20 MR. deLASKI: Andrew deLaski, Appliance

21 Standards Awareness Project.

22 MR. STARR: Louis Starr with NEEA.
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1 MR. TERZIGNI: Mark Terzigni with SMACNA.

2 MS. HOFFMAN: And Eileen Hoffman, the

3 facilitator.

4 MR. BANTLE: Okay. Thank you.

5 We'll turn it back over to John. One thing I do

6 want to just remind everybody, we don't have the sight

7 lines like we did in the last room, so please state your

8 name before you speak.

9 We did have a few open items that we tabled

10 yesterday, so let's keep those on your mind and we'll get

11 back to that.

12 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. So I think we're going to

13 dive into the shipments, and we'll turn it over to Katie

14 to go through that. I think this is --

15 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, this is your -- would you

16 like a chair?

17 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, I think so. Thank you.

18 Okay. Shipments analysis. So here's the

19 chevron diagram showing the shipments. So this is -- we

20 take the energy use, essentially the operating cost and

21 installation cost out of the -- essentially it goes

22 through the LCC and into the shipments, and this
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1 determines any changes that might occur under a standard.

2 Shipments are then input in the National Input Analysis

3 and then also into the Manufacturer Impact Analysis.

4 So the basic concept with the shipments model --

5 this is just a review to wake everybody up -- the goal

6 here is to estimate the shipments over the 30-year

7 analysis period and figure out: What is the impact on

8 shipments of the standard?

9 So there's two changes that occur. One is there

10 may be a change in total shipments because of a price

11 increase. And the second one is that the actual units

12 shipped change in efficiency because of the post

13 standard. So those few things are fed into the National

14 Impact Analysis to determine the overall costs and

15 benefits associated with a pro standard.

16 So for this product, we use a stock accounting

17 model to track shipments. So we try to build a picture

18 of the commercial building population, how many units are

19 in that population, and watch the turnover of the stock,

20 and how that -- new shipments coming in are changed by

21 the standard.

22 So there's a change here from the NOPR. So we
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1 went through with the NOPR analysis in an attempt to

2 explicitly calculate this repair/replace decision, and

3 I'll get into this more later. But for now, I just want

4 to say that, overall, the problem there is that you end

5 up with -- because the data quality is not good, you

6 really cannot parameterize the decision correctly so you

7 end up with something that's extremely sensitive to small

8 changes in price. That's the only thing you can sort of

9 match the data, and the data are not that good to begin

10 with.

11 So for this version of the analysis, it's not a

12 different conceptual model, it's sort of a different

13 implementation. But we're just reverting to something

14 that's much simpler and more transparent where we just do

15 the shipments change based on a price elasticity. So I

16 will get into that a little more.

17 So essentially what this means is that you look

18 at a price increase and you say, "Okay. There's a

19 certain fraction of the population that are not going to

20 be willing to pay that price." And implicitly, we assume

21 that instead of buying a new unit, that's a repair. So

22 the overall saturation does not change.
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1 So I'm going to go through a little bit of the

2 mechanics because I -- I mean, I sense that people are

3 trying to understand how the shipments model are affected

4 by the lifetime and that sort of thing. So I'm going to

5 go through a little bit of that because there's really

6 just a couple of points you need to know.

7 So the first thing is that the total equipment

8 stock is just defined essentially as a saturation

9 parameter times the floor space. So that saturation is a

10 key parameter. And when we do the shipments modeling,

11 what we're trying to do is build up this picture of total

12 equipment stock for each equipment class is in each year

13 of the analysis, we have that stock and it's distributed

14 across a bunch of age categories.

15 So that's our variable, "U," is a function of

16 the year, "Y," and the age, "A." And in each year we add

17 a new branch to the stock, which is the age zero, which

18 is the shipments. And then as we go through the model,

19 we retire units and add new units.

20 So we can separate the shipments into three

21 channels: There's the new installations that go into new

22 buildings, there's the -- what we call existing buildings
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1 installation, so new units going into existing buildings,

2 this only occurs if the saturation is changing over time.

3 And there's the replacement installations where you have

4 a unit in the building that is broken and it's going to

5 be replaced.

6 And when we try -- when we do the calculation of

7 the replacement stock, we use this Weibull Distribution

8 to figure out -- so the Weibull tells you, "What's the

9 probability of a unit failing at exhibit age?" So we

10 just use that times the stock distributed across ages to

11 count up the number of broken units.

12 So this is -- let's see -- I actually have a

13 picture of a Weibull Distribution just because. Because

14 I know, again -- I mean, our lifetime -- our mean

15 lifetime is fairly long, but I wanted to emphasize that

16 the Weibull Distribution is actually pretty wide.

17 So what I have here is the -- this is the

18 probability distribution function associated with the

19 Weibull. So this is essentially the probability of

20 failure as a function of the unit age. And over here,

21 this is the cumulative distribution functions. This is

22 just fraction units that fail as a function of age.
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1 And with the parameters we're using now, we

2 have -- you can see here, this is the cumulative

3 distribution is the function of the age on the X axis.

4 So we have 22 percent of the stock failing by age 12. So

5 even though their median lifetime is quite high, we still

6 have -- because this distribution is sort of fat, we have

7 a fair amount of stock turnover even at earlier ages.

8 And the two parameters that define this distribution are

9 the scale parameter and the shape parameter.

10 So the shape parameter actually determines the

11 shape here. And the scale parameter, you can think of it

12 as just -- if I change the scale parameter, I'm just

13 going to change the scale of the axis; doesn't change the

14 shape. So it can move this in or out. And if I go and

15 change the shape parameter here, if I make it smaller, I

16 get a fatter distribution; if I make it larger, I get a

17 skinnier distribution.

18 So there is a -- you know, there's sort of some

19 data on component failure, things like compressors and

20 valves and those sorts of things. And well, you can look

21 at some information on these shape parameters, but

22 there's nothing, you know, specific to air conditioning.
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1 So we use the compressor failure, which is about 2, for

2 the shape parameter as our shape here.

3 MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr of NEEA. So

4 what -- does the .03, does that mean anything in the

5 physical --

6 MS. COUGHLIN: .03?

7 MR. STARR: Yeah, on your PDF. Yeah, that .03

8 doesn't practically mean anything. So .03 at 10 years or

9 12 years, does that have anything to do with the mean or

10 is that just -- it's not related at all?

11 MS. COUGHLIN: No, it's not really -- I mean,

12 this is just normalized so that the area under the curve

13 is 1. So that's --

14 MR. STARR: So the Y axis is just the fact that

15 the shapes -- it basically changes the shape of the

16 curve, but it doesn't have any relation to something that

17 exists in reality necessarily?

18 MS. COUGHLIN: Well, this you would give you,

19 you know, if you add exactly 10 years, this was roughly 3

20 percent of the units would fail in exactly 10 years.

21 MR. STARR: Okay. That's what I was looking

22 for.
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: And that's what this kind of

2 says.

3 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. And the other thing

4 I just wanted to call out is on the data table to the far

5 left, the median unit is lasting somewhere between 16.8

6 and 19.2 years, and that's an illustrative data point if

7 I'm reading your data tables right.

8 MS. COUGHLIN: You mean you're looking at where

9 this crosses 50 percent? Is that what you're looking at?

10 MR. SACHS: Well, actually, I was looking at the

11 data table as well on the graph. So we get a .44 at 16.8

12 years, assuming that (coughing) is age.

13 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. So yeah, but this is not

14 the parameters -- I'm just changing the parameters to

15 show you what this thing looks like. This is not

16 actually the parameters that we have in the current --

17 MR. SACHS: Oh, okay.

18 MS. COUGHLIN: So this is just to give you kind

19 of an intuitive sense of how this works, right. So you

20 change the shape parameter, you'll get the same median,

21 just going to make a distribution even fatter, you're

22 going to get more units failing across.
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1 Or we can -- and then as I was saying, if I go

2 over here and change the scale parameter, it just --

3 essentially everything looks the same, but you rewrite

4 the numbers on the -- essentially on those axes.

5 So we have -- I will show you what we have for

6 parameters and why we have them, and then we can kind of

7 talk about it, you know.

8 MR. STARR: One last question. So this is Louis

9 with NEEA.

10 So -- so I don't know that much about

11 statistics. So the Weibull Distribution, why are you

12 choosing that one as a typical failure mode for --

13 MS. COUGHLIN: It is the standard distribution

14 for mechanical failure, yeah. I'm not entirely sure why,

15 but that's the sort of --

16 MR. SACHS: Katie, this is Harvey. And I think

17 it comes out of mortality studies for people. I'm not

18 positive of that, but that's my memory.

19 MR. CYMBALSKY: Sounds deadly.

20 MR. SACHS: And Joe has just confirmed it.

21 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah.

22 MS. MEYERS: So you said the shape you're
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1 matching is based on data of the failures on

2 your choosing the --

3 MS. COUGHLIN: There's a compilation that I

4 found on the web for shape parameters for different

5 things. And really, we know it's either 1 or 2 or 1.5 or

6 whatever. And (coughing) small things like valves and

7 that sort of thing, it tends to be 1. And for larger

8 things: Pumps, compressors, that sort of thing, tends to

9 be 2.

10 MR. CYMBALSKY: And min and max, where did that

11 come from? I might have missed it.

12 MS. COUGHLIN: The min and max, well --

13 MR. CYMBALSKY: Well, do you set a maximum? I

14 noticed the 6 is always there (inaudible).

15 MS. COUGHLIN: Oh, that's just for my plot.

16 Actually, what we do in the shipments model is we cut it

17 off at 40. So you have this long tail here that we just

18 cutoff, we figure, at 40 is the economic lifetime that we

19 would impose.

20 But yeah, this thing has a very long tail. It

21 essentially goes out arbitrarily large, and so

22 practically we just put it in an economic lifetime
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1 cutoff. I think it's 40, yeah. It's -- so that's on

2 here.

3 So again, this just repeats what I said earlier.

4 So we have these three channels: New installations,

5 existing buildings, and replacements. New installations

6 is just a market saturation parameter times new floor

7 space. So when we take the new floor space projection

8 out of the EO, existing buildings getting new units is a

9 change in saturation. If a saturation is constant --

10 which it pretty much is in our analysis period -- then

11 this is a very small component of the shipments.

12 And then we have the replacement installations

13 which we calculate by looking at the broken stock,

14 multiplying by this probability which is equal to the

15 failure at age A times the stock distributed across the

16 ages. So the total broken stock is, you know, not

17 necessarily at 100 percent replaced; some fraction of it

18 will be repaired.

19 So there's no way with the existing data to

20 figure out what we call the background repair rate in the

21 base-case. You just match to the actual shipments, that

22 includes the fact that some people are going to be
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1 repairing their units when they break.

2 But when you go to the standards case we use the

3 price elasticity to get the drop in shipments, and that

4 kind of looks -- that picks out the extra repairs that

5 are occurring purely because of the price increase.

6 So there's a difference between the economic

7 lifetime that you get from matching the shipments and

8 just the failure rate. The economic lifetime includes

9 this kind of background repair. And again, in the NOPR,

10 we try to separate those out and it's basically -- just

11 doesn't really work.

12 MR. SACHS: Katie, this is Harvey. And

13 conceptually, it seems to be a fourth term that's not up

14 there, I don't think. And that's the -- and you may have

15 it as a negative in your second term -- but that's the

16 demolition of significant parts to this stock,

17 particularly in this strip mall type.

18 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, we have them in the model.

19 I just didn't -- yeah. But, yes, we take the demolitions

20 out of the floor space.

21 MR. WHITWELL: So does that include what Joel

22 spoke about yesterday where a building owner
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1 would completely -- Bob Whitwell from Carrier -- would

2 completely renovate their building, redo the roof, and

3 replace all the equipment on the roof? Is that included

4 in here somehow?

5 MS. COUGHLIN: That's a replacement,

6 essentially. So we don't really look at -- I mean,

7 again, we're calibrating to total shipments. So if

8 that's in the total shipments, that's implicitly included

9 here.

10 And so when I say we use a price elasticity to

11 estimate the shipments changed, the little expression on

12 the red there, essentially that just means that the

13 relative change in shipments is equal to this elasticity

14 time, the relative change in price.

15 And this, again, if you do all the arithmetic,

16 this is consistent with the more formal low jet model,

17 it's just a similar representation of it. Let's just --

18 let's see -- look at the calibration process. So we have

19 the data that we submitted for the 2005 rule which gives

20 us historic shipments from 1980 to 2001.

21 MR. SACHS: Katie, excuse me, please, on that

22 page before I miss something. Harvey Sachs. P, delta P
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1 over P. P is the price?

2 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, it's actually the total

3 install cost, yes.

4 MR. SACHS: Thank you.

5 MS. COUGHLIN: So we have added the data

6 submitted by AHRI, too, with the economic census to

7 create sort of a long historical series. And the reason

8 why we need this -- we want to have a reasonably good

9 distribution of the stock as a function of age in the

10 start year of our analysis.

11 So we try to sort of go back in time and look at

12 the historic shipments coming in while the market

13 saturation is actually growing over time. So that -- and

14 that's where -- that's essentially the calibration

15 process where we try to fit the cumulative shipments in

16 the model to what's in the data. And that's where the

17 plots are that we will get to.

18 And again, in a very general sense, when you fit

19 this distribution of lifetimes, you know, the most

20 important kind of numerical factor is that the total

21 shipments is proportional to one over the lifetime.

22 Right?
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1 You can imagine, if I take the lifetime, it was

2 20 years and I make it 10 years, I'm going to have to

3 increase the shipments all other things being equal

4 because more things are being broken and need to be

5 replaced. So overall, the shipments are proportional to

6 the market saturation and they're proportional to one

7 over the lifetime, and everything else is kind of minor.

8 Those two parameters really are what dominate the fitting

9 process.

10 So the market saturations, we take them out of

11 the CBECS surveys. They gave us an estimate of the floor

12 space that is cooled by packaged equipment, then we have

13 to kind of do some inference to figure out how much of

14 that packaged equipment is covered by the rule and then

15 distribute that across the size categories. So it's not

16 the most precise calculation.

17 MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr of NEEA. So

18 the saturation is giving you the number of units out

19 there that are installed. Is that what that's doing?

20 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, it's sort of giving you the

21 potential market for this type of equipment.

22 MR. STARR: Okay. And then you know the
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1 lifetime, and so then you know you have to replace that

2 group of units so often based upon the lifetime that sets

3 up the shipments per year that you have to do in order to

4 meet that quantity. And then you add on probably with a

5 EO, your predicted growth of maybe new units into that

6 market. In other words, they build new markets, new

7 populations.

8 MS. COUGHLIN: Right. And there's a sort of --

9 for any equipment, there's a limited potential market

10 penetration, just -- very large buildings won't use

11 certain types of equipment. That sort of thing.

12 MR. STARR: Okay.

13 MS. COUGHLIN: So the saturation also tells you

14 kind of what's the upper bound --

15 MR. WHITWELL: So Katie -- sorry, you probably

16 said this and I just missed it. But the saturation is

17 really the number of buildings that have -- that are

18 conditioned; right? It's a -- the floor space of the

19 building --

20 MS. COUGHLIN: Right, we do the floor space.

21 And it's specifically by packaged equipment.

22 MR. WHITWELL: By packaged equipment.
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. And this also includes

2 heat pumps. You know, when we do this model we have to

3 put everything in the floor space. And again, CBECS has

4 information on which buildings have this type of

5 equipment, but it's not that precise. So in terms of the

6 calibration, it's a sort of -- we jointly estimate both

7 the saturation and the lifetime.

8 So if the lifetime is too short or too long, it

9 means the saturation is too high or too low; they kind of

10 go together. So there's a bound on how much we want

11 to -- we can sort of change the lifetime. Because then

12 if you push the saturation too far away from what's in

13 CBECS, it's not credible.

14 But the other point I want to make is that even

15 if both parameters are not quite right, we match the

16 shipments. And since you're always matching the data,

17 the projection of future shipments is pretty stable. So

18 that's --

19 MR. SACHS: If I could ask another question --

20 Harvey Sachs. If I think back -- and I can't remember

21 the granularity of the CBECS that worked with the old

22 CBECS -- but seems to me which I think back to the air
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1 conditioning a quarter century ago, it seemed to be a lot

2 of offices that were using new air conditioners, a lot of

3 buildings that were using perhaps more than we have today

4 using ptacks. So it seemed -- I feel there's been a

5 shift toward RTUs. And within that, a shift toward a

6 higher fraction of much larger RTUs.

7 And I'm not sure about that, but the real

8 question is whether the granularity of CBECS allows us to

9 see the actual trends from the RTUs that are a topic here

10 as opposed to all this other noise. You mentioned that

11 we have --

12 MS. COUGHLIN: No, not really. That's why we

13 actually try to calibrate, too, the saturation and rather

14 than just fixing at a CBECS value. Because CBECS

15 distinguishes packaged equipment from, say, roomier or

16 residential style or chillers, but it does not subdivide

17 packaged equipment any further.

18 MR. SACHS: But that's not full as is. Not

19 throwing the ptacks and room air conditioners and water

20 source heat pumps are still a pretty small thing.

21 MS. COUGHLIN: Right, heat pumps are a separate

22 category as well, so yeah.
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1 MR. SACHS: Thank you.

2 MS. COUGHLIN: So I have some output -- so this

3 is now we're talking -- this is the current model. And

4 we have here, the upper graph is the shipments, and the

5 lower graph is the cumulative shipments.

6 So again, because of all of the -- there's a lot

7 of wiggles in the data due to construction booms and that

8 sort of thing. And we're, for the purposes of

9 projecting, it's better to try to match a smooth signal.

10 So that's why we actually calibrate to the cumulative

11 shipments, which is the lower graph. And as you can see,

12 the fit is really very good.

13 And as I was saying, you know, if we want to

14 change the lifetime -- and I'm not saying that we

15 shouldn't, you know, because I think it's likely that the

16 saturations are somewhat overestimated from CBECS. So if

17 they're overestimated, it means the lifetime is

18 overestimated. But what -- we sort of have to change

19 both parameters and we're still going to get the same

20 fit. So we're essentially still going to get the same

21 cumulative shipments, but the lifetime in the LCC might

22 be different.
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1 MR. STARR: So this is Louis with NEEA. So on

2 this chart, can you kind of tell me what the -- what

3 colors are what, and sort of --

4 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes.

5 MR. STARR: -- a practical.

6 Do these things in any way add together --

7 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes.

8 MR. STARR: -- like two of these things add

9 together sort of a blue line or something?

10 MS. COUGHLIN: So the blue line is total

11 shipments. The green line is the new construction

12 component.

13 MR. STARR: So the dark green line?

14 MS. COUGHLIN: The dark green line, yeah, at the

15 bottom. The red line is the new -- is this SE, the new

16 equipment in existing buildings. So that was during the

17 period when the market saturation was increasing, you

18 were taking existing buildings and putting the units in

19 for the first time.

20 MR. STARR: So the green one is new

21 construction, the red ones are replacements?

22 MS. COUGHLIN: No, the red one is the new units
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1 in existing buildings.

2 MR. STARR: Okay.

3 FEMALE SPEAKER: Renovation.

4 MS. COUGHLIN: So you take a building that did

5 not have this type of equipment and you add the equipment

6 to it.

7 MALE SPEAKER: Could be a conversion

8 (simultaneous speaking).

9 MS. COUGHLIN: A conversion, yeah. So it's sort

10 of when your new product is coming into the market, it

11 doesn't just go into new buildings, it goes into old

12 buildings as well. So that's what that red line is, and

13 that pretty much goes back to zero because the market is

14 pretty saturated for C. And then that pale blue line or

15 pale green is the replacement market.

16 So over time when the market becomes saturated,

17 you're not getting -- everybody who wants one of these

18 units has one, and your stock is essentially the new

19 construction piece and the replacement market.

20 MR. STARR: So in this chart, the red line is

21 basically showing by, I guess, the number of shipments?

22 It's hard to tell. But basically you've saturated the
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1 market by 20/20, everybody that wants one got one. Is

2 that what that says?

3 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes.

4 MR. STARR: So everybody got this new unit and

5 they're replacing older systems. What were the older

6 systems they're replacing?

7 MS. COUGHLIN: The same equipment.

8 MR. STARR: Same equipment?

9 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. So the same replacement is

10 our stock model and our Weibull Distribution and just --

11 the units break and you get the same type of unit.

12 And then in the bottom here, this is the -- just

13 the total shipments over time. So we're not counting the

14 broken stock; we're just counting total shipments.

15 MR. STARR: So the three lines: The red, the

16 green, and the blue or the light -- whatever that color

17 is, light blue or Sienna, I don't know, those add up to

18 the dark blue; is that right?

19 MS. COUGHLIN: That's right.

20 MR. STARR: For each -- and any individual year,

21 those three things, they add up to equal the blue line?

22 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes, yes. And the black
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1 triangles are the data.

2 MR. WHITWELL: From -- and the source for that?

3 MS. COUGHLIN: Is the AHRI -- basically the 2005

4 rule, the data that we received for that rule.

5 MR. WHITWELL: Okay. But I see there's some --

6 I thought that's what it was, but I see there's some in

7 2010 --

8 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, we used the census data to

9 try to extend that past 2001.

10 MR. WHITWELL: So that's the census data?

11 MS. COUGHLIN: That's the census. So it's a

12 little hard to map them one-to-one.

13 MR. ROSENQUIST: 2002 and 2010 data is what was

14 derived from the census. So I'm assuming it's less

15 accurate than the data that was submitted from AHRI from

16 1980 to 2001?

17 MR. THARP: What was the number for 2010 --

18 Rusty Tharp -- is that 110,000? 120,000? Do you know a

19 specific value?

20 MS. COUGHLIN: It looks like about 120, about

21 120. So this is the seven-and-a-half ton, and then here

22 is the 15-ton, and 30-ton. The 30-ton is a little harder
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1 to fit, partly because we don't really have -- again, we

2 have to try to infer how many buildings have the 30-ton

3 equipment, it's not really that obvious. But still, the

4 fit is not bad.

5 MR. DOPPEL: Paul Doppel of Mitsubishi. So the

6 max life number seems very high. What impact does that

7 have?

8 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, I think this is actually

9 wrong. I think it was 40.

10 But basically -- so we have that long tail on

11 the distribution. And in the model, if a lifetime

12 exceeds this maximum, we just set it equal to the

13 maximum. So it's a --

14 MR. DOPPEL: Even 40, especially for

15 seven-and-a-half ton, that seems extremely high.

16 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, but again, if you think of

17 that distribution, the number of units that you have on

18 that --

19 MALE SPEAKER: Could you go back and look at

20 that?

21 MS. COUGHLIN: Sure. It's -- so yeah, around

22 here, this long tail. So basically I'm taking everything
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1 beyond some maximum here and just giving it a value here.

2 FEMALE SPEAKER: Chopping it off.

3 MS. COUGHLIN: Sorry. So there's not -- there's

4 very few units up there. So it really doesn't affect the

5 answer. I mean, it gives you sort of about a 1 percent

6 change in the answer, essentially, because there's so few

7 units that are lingering in that long tail.

8 MR. DOPPEL: That just seems to be a very, very

9 long time.

10 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes.

11 MR. DOPPEL: I mean, I can't -- I can't think of

12 a rooftop -- I can't imagine a rooftop unit, especially

13 seven-and-a-half ton, being out there.

14 MS. HOOTMAN: It's a rust bucket at that point.

15 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. I mean, we can move it

16 in -- it's really -- again, these things actually don't

17 make a difference because the bulk of the market is here.

18 So this is just sort of a long tail.

19 But this is -- again, this is the standard

20 distribution shape to use. I think there -- there may be

21 a small segment of the market where people are not using

22 the equipment very heavily, and for whatever reason it's
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1 just sort of carrying on, but --

2 MR. STARR: Katie, this is Louis. So

3 essentially past 40 you look at the .05 the probability

4 that any unit exists. Isn't that one over .05? I don't

5 know what that number is, but it's 200 -- 1 out of 200

6 chances is essentially what it's saying? Or that's

7 right -- the shape factor. The .05 in 40 years, does

8 that mean anything if you look at the curve?

9 MS. COUGHLIN: Well, let me -- so if you want to

10 look at that, we've got to go back to our actual

11 parameters.

12 So this cumulative distribution is a little more

13 reasonable number to look at. So 40 years we have .3 --

14 .4 percent of the stock is enduring past 40 years. So

15 that's the amount that gets sort of pushed into just a

16 40-year lifetime.

17 MR. STARR: So less than 1 percent. So that's a

18 very small number.

19 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes.

20 MR. STARR: Okay. Less than half of 1 percent.

21 MS. HOOTMAN: So Jill from Trane. So I can see

22 what Paul's saying, and I understand that there might be
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1 abandoned buildings that are not being used and it has

2 some piece of equipment up there. But that's the point:

3 It's not being used. There's no energy being used, it's

4 an abandoned building for sale or for whatever; right?

5 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. I mean, again, we're

6 talking about 0.4 percent of the stock. So I can take it

7 off. I don't care, you know. It's not that big of a

8 deal.

9 MS. HOOTMAN: When you said 40, I cut -- that's

10 what I thought you were doing was at 40, you cut.

11 MS. COUGHLIN: That's what we do.

12 MS. HOOTMAN: Oh, okay. So that curve -- that

13 really would be mean and then (inaudible).

14 MS. COUGHLIN: There's a real spike in

15 (inaudible) and that little spike is about a half a

16 percent of the total stock.

17 MR. STARR: I mean, we are talking 1 in 200

18 units, or 1 in 40. And I can tell you, I've been to some

19 places where there's more than that. I mean, I can come

20 off of a campus back in 2010 and we had 1980 Carrier

21 units on there. And I came off a military base which had

22 even older stuff on there and some was abandoned. But on
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1 her shipment stuff, she took out the abandoned buildings

2 or the ones that are going to be demolished, but --

3 MR. ZENDAH: When was the peak -- Sami Zendah of

4 Emerson. What was the least they could (inaudible)

5 probably at 15.

6 MS. COUGHLIN: That is at 18.

7 MR. ZENDAH: So it's 18 plus a normal

8 distribution at each side. So I don't know, why would

9 you need the 40? That's what this is saying; right?

10 MR. DOPPEL: Well, I think my point goes to

11 more -- Paul Doppel with Mitsubishi (coughing) 30 should

12 be a max.

13 MR. ZENDAH: So if you cut it off --

14 MR. DOPPEL: So if you look at the numbers for

15 30. I mean, that's over a little more significant

16 number.

17 MR. STARR: Well, but it's such a small number,

18 I mean, so --

19 MS. HOOTMAN: I understand what you're saying;

20 it's not going to change it. It's not going to change a

21 thing, the normal distribution.

22 MR. ZENDAH: So normal distribution would be at
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1 18. And no matter what she does --

2 MS. COUGHLIN: Yes.

3 MR. SACHS: It's not a guessing function. That

4 doesn't make any difference (simultaneous speaking).

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: So I agree with Sami. So what

6 we should be focused on really is what this peak point is

7 of when you're getting 4 to 5 percent retiring in each

8 year; that's the meat of the matter. Don't worry about

9 this stuff.

10 MR. STARR: I think what he's suggesting is that

11 you should move that whole distribution back so where

12 you're at 60 is at 30. So I think that's what he's

13 getting at, but it's not a typical -- yeah.

14 MR. CYMBALSKY: But, see, when we get those new

15 shipments and fit those new shipments, this is going to

16 change maybe.

17 MS. COUGHLIN: Maybe. Yeah, again, I mean, the

18 long tail is just a feature of the Weibull. It's just

19 the way it's designed or set-up. So if you want to cut

20 it off at 30, we can cut it off at 35, but you want to

21 use the Weibull because this is supposed to be the right

22 shape for mechanical failure.
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1 MR. CYMBALSKY: And again, go back to your slide

2 where you showed the cumulative stock. Yeah, that one.

3 I mean, this is what's important; right?

4 MS. COUGHLIN: Right.

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: Once we fit all the data --

6 MS. COUGHLIN: I agree.

7 MR. CYMBALSKY: -- you've got to say, "Look,

8 what we've done fits the actual data and case closed

9 about everything else."

10 MR. deLASKI: So then -- this is Andrew. What

11 we're waiting -- so then you guys have the data -- a new

12 data source about to be handed over to you, and next time

13 we meet we'll have a new --

14 MS. COUGHLIN: Well, I mean, again, we're going

15 to replace what we have -- I mean, ideally we'll replace

16 those from 2000 onwards with the more accurate data, and

17 we'll see if we came up with a reasonable projection.

18 But we do have a very good fit all the way across this

19 period, so I doubt it's going to change a huge amount,

20 but it might change somewhat.

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: All it's going to change are

22 these stocks here; right?
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah.

2 MR. CYMBALSKY: And so based on those new dots,

3 you know, so all this data already exists and has a lot

4 of influence on that future line.

5 MR. deLASKI: And we're going to have a few more

6 data points, too; right?

7 MS. COUGHLIN: Right, we're going to go further

8 and see how much it changes.

9 MR. deLASKI: The recovery period?

10 MR. SACHS: Well, this is Harvey. And it seems

11 to me that we've beat this horse as hard as we can with

12 the data we have.

13 MR. CYMBALSKY: Oh, you'd be surprised.

14 (Laughter.)

15 MR. SACHS: I'm talking Bob --

16 MR. CYMBALSKY: It's still two weeks away.

17 (Laughter.)

18 MS. HOOTMAN: Oh, so true.

19 MS. COUGHLIN: So again, when we do this -- when

20 we look at this standard coming in, it's 2019 is our

21 current assumption about the year. So 2019 forward, we

22 get a drop in the shipments by applying this price
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1 elasticity to the price change. So we have those

2 numbers. I just, here, plotted the cumulative shipments.

3 So essentially the -- this number here, we're

4 going up to 2048. So this number here is the total

5 cumulative shipments, and this is showing us all three

6 equipment classes. These are unit counts, and this is

7 the three different channels.

8 So the gray bars on the top are the replacements

9 which dominate the total shipments. There's the small

10 slice of orange here is the expanding market share of the

11 larger units. And then the blue section is just the new

12 construction market.

13 So we don't assume that the new construction is

14 elastic. We assume if you're building a building and

15 it's standard to put a rooftop unit on that building,

16 you're going to put that on no matter what the price

17 change. So the elasticity just goes into the replacement

18 units.

19 MR. HUNT: Katie, this is Marshall Hunt from

20 PG&E. In the future, I would really like to have the

21 numbers on the bars. I'm a numbers freak and it's sort

22 of hard to look at. So if you could put a number on top
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1 of those bars, that would be great.

2 MS. COUGHLIN: Right, uh-huh.

3 MALE SPEAKER: We can give you the whole

4 spreadsheet.

5 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, you can have as many

6 numbers as you would like. I'm not sure if I put the

7 tables here, but this is what we have currently. I guess

8 yeah --

9 MALE SPEAKER: What year is this? Is this 2000?

10 MS. COUGHLIN: This is the whole period. So it

11 goes from 2019 to 2048. Since we are changing these

12 numbers to some extent, you know, we don't need to dwell

13 too much on this. This is just kind of giving you a

14 picture of how the model works. Again, this is -- again,

15 going back to the shipments itself and you see the

16 relative drops at the different ELs.

17 So it's schematic at the high end, and let's see

18 if I have -- yeah, so this is the percentage drop for

19 each product class by each EL. So this is our current

20 estimates based on the data.

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: So that's in cumulative

22 shipments?
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: That's cumulative shipments over

2 the analysis period.

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: So this was the question I

4 raised to kind of debate was, if we're really talking

5 about compressor replacement repair, right, versus

6 replacement units?

7 MS. COUGHLIN: That's right.

8 MR. CYMBALSKY: When we do that.

9 So the question in my mind -- so let's look at

10 EL-3, right, that's right in the middle. So we're saying

11 for 40 -- that's interesting the numbers don't formula --

12 well, anyway.

13 So at the seven-and-a-half ton, you get a 10

14 percent reduction in shipments. But if the cost of

15 repairing is -- 80 percent I think is the number I threw

16 out -- of replacement, I mean, is 10 percent the right

17 number?

18 So if it's $10,000, someone's paying $8,000

19 instead of $10,000 to extend the life. I don't know,

20 mark positive seven-and-a-half years. I think we have

21 10.

22 MR. THARP: 80 percent may be -- Rusty Tharp.
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1 80 percent may be a good number for split system

2 products, but definitely not for single package.

3 MS. HOOTMAN: 80 percent of what?

4 MR. THARP: Of -- 80 percent of the cost. So

5 10,000 units --

6 MS. HOOTMAN: That's what we had yesterday is

7 the amount of the compressor cost change, that was around

8 80 percent of replacing a whole unit. And when you

9 started to talk about that 30-ton, you need to skip lift,

10 you need -- you know, it's a heavy compressor. You know,

11 you need two people. It's at least a day to purge the

12 system, you know. I'm going to tell you, the 30-ton, I

13 would agree, it is.

14 15, it depends on what size compressor you've

15 got in there, you know. It's a day work for two guys for

16 sure. Get it to the roof, it might be too heavy to get

17 it to the roof. You might need a crane to get it to the

18 roof. So I started -- seven-and-a-half, maybe not, maybe

19 not.

20 MR. ZENDAH: I agree with that.

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: So I mean, the real question is:

22 Is the 20 percent sort of carrot dangling out there
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1 enough to substantiate 10 percent not doing it? That's

2 the question I have in my head.

3 MS. HOOTMAN: 10 percent not doing --

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: The replacement on the unit.

5 MS. HOOTMAN: -- the replacement?

6 MR. CYMBALSKY: Based on 20 percent cost

7 differential.

8 MS. HOOTMAN: So I think what also happens in

9 there and that could be very valid in 10 percent, these

10 are a lot of times leased spaces. When faced with that,

11 average building owner might -- or a renter might -- and

12 I'm sorry, Jill Hootman from Trane -- they might

13 literally move to another space. So because they're not

14 going to pay the price either way.

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: But are they responsible for

16 paying it if they're leasing the space? If they're

17 not -- because isn't the building owner --

18 MALE SPEAKER: Depends on the building owner.

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Depends on the building and on the

20 lease, a net lease -- or a net lease or, you know --

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: My understanding was that would

22 be --
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1 MS. HOOTMAN: You're looking at an average strip

2 center, and I think of the nail salon and the dry cleaner

3 and, you know, right? All these little, five-,

4 seven-and-a-half ton kind of units, you know.

5 I think you see when they go, "Okay. We've got

6 no air conditioning and I'm not going to pay for that

7 replacement. I'm going to go lease somewhere else. I

8 can go lease over here. And I'm going to move my

9 business." And I think that's in that 10 percent.

10 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. Jill, there's an

11 old saying in the commercial sector that -- how does it

12 go? Two moves equal a fire?

13 MS. HOOTMAN: Something like that, yes.

14 MR. SACHS: The cost of a move in business

15 disruption is so high that it's hard for me to imagine

16 that the dry cleaners can move without a broken air

17 conditioner.

18 MS. HOOTMAN: It is for -- it depends on the

19 type of business.

20 MR. SACHS: It depends on the type of business,

21 but --

22 MS. HOOTMAN: A hair salon and a beauty salon,
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1 it's not. They move around all the time.

2 MR. deLASKI: But if they -- this is Andrew.

3 But if they move, someone owns the building and they have

4 a broken air conditioner and they're probably going to

5 renovate and replace it.

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Probably could get at least

7 (inaudible).

8 MR. deLASKI: And it's probably going to

9 increase the likelihood that it gets replaced because

10 they have to prepare the units for a new tenant.

11 MR. SACHS: And the market because it uses half

12 the energy.

13 MR. STARR: So this is Louis --

14 MS. HOOTMAN: Let's not market that way.

15 MR. STARR: -- I talked to a mechanical

16 contractor about this, they design and build around town.

17 His side was doing the repair and whatever, not doing

18 construction. So it's all (inaudible) so I ask him --

19 this was a while back -- how do people make decisions?

20 So the one that Bill's talking about was one of

21 the things that happens. So what they usually do, one:

22 They could move out. But what they usually do is
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1 depending on -- it also depends a lot on how the lease is

2 written.

3 But on ones where the tenant's responsible for

4 the equipment -- so the owner's been kind of clever and

5 shifted that responsibility down on them -- it becomes a

6 time to renegotiate your lease because --

7 MS. HOOTMAN: That, too.

8 MR. STARR: -- you don't have to build new walls

9 and everything else.

10 But what you can do is say, "I'll be here

11 another five years. If you've paid for that unit, then I

12 will stay." And maybe, you know, you get another tenant

13 for five -- the owner knows he's got someone there for 5

14 years, the person that's in the hair salon or whatever

15 gets a new RTU so they don't have to move to the next

16 building which may have the exact same problem.

17 When you're really price-driven, you're going to

18 have very cheap --

19 MS. HOOTMAN: But they will negotiate, too.

20 MR. STARR: -- you're going to move to a

21 building that is probably not Class A or Class B or C,

22 and it would be like the same thing when you buy an old
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1 car, "Hey, this one's great now." But when you buy a new

2 old car so it won't break down. Well, you see the

3 fallacy in that.

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: I guess my point is that these

5 things -- forget about the standard for a second, let's

6 just talk about what goes on every day, what we're

7 describing here happens now.

8 These things are expensive to begin with. So

9 we're talking about the delta, right, so it's the 20

10 percent of the delta, not -- the standard's really not

11 the main driver of the cost here. It's just to buy

12 anything right now is very expensive to someone whose got

13 a Superclips or whatever --

14 MS. HOOTMAN: A low profit margin.

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: So to me, it's -- is what

16 we're -- is the imposition of the standard really going

17 to cause the 10 percent, or is this somehow baked into a

18 reference case where these things are $10,000 anyway?

19 MS. WALTNER: This is 10 percent more repairs.

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right.

21 MS. WALTNER: This strikes me as a high number.

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. So I think to some
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1 extent what you're really seeing, that 10 percent, it's

2 not the people making that decision, it's not a smart

3 business decision no matter where you're at. Whether

4 you're a hair salon or you're the guy that owns the

5 building -- if you're the guy that owns the building, it

6 makes absolutely no sense -- or you're the hair salon

7 that's moving so you don't really have to repair, it also

8 doesn't really make any business sense.

9 So and that being said, I would say 10 percent

10 of the market is not rational. So you're probably

11 right --

12 MS. HOOTMAN: Well, if you're the building

13 owner -- if you're the building owner, what -- and I

14 don't know, I have to say -- but isn't there more tax

15 incentive to do the repairs on their taxes for that

16 building and their taxes then to actually do a capital

17 outlay?

18 I believe they can write off their expenses a

19 whole lot more that they can write off their capital

20 outlays. So I would say that they're more motivated by

21 repair to get it to the next --

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: But you also have unhappy
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1 clients and things like that that move out. But if

2 you're in for the long-term, there may be tax breaks.

3 But you're really -- I also talked to the sales

4 guy about -- he's a sales guy, but he also repairs. But

5 they're always trying to up-sell to the newer equipment

6 and everything else because they can guarantee it and a

7 whole bunch else.

8 If they repair things like a compressor, chances

9 are they're going to be back there and the guy's going to

10 be pissed off because he just worked on it last year and

11 it's like your service is bad. So they always try to

12 sell a new unit; there's always a good business case for

13 selling it, but it's really just the guy that's super

14 cheap doesn't want to buy it.

15 I think there's always a good business case -- a

16 really good business case for buying that new unit.

17 MS. HOOTMAN: I would have a hard time to answer

18 your question, John. 11 percent is probably on the

19 30-ton.

20 MS. COUGHLIN: That's just based on the price

21 change that we have. So this really -- just one

22 parameter for the elasticity. And then this is driven by
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1 the price change.

2 MR. deLASKI: So I have a question on that. So

3 Katie, the price elasticity does not take into -- it

4 doesn't take into account the alternative the customer

5 faces.

6 In other words, is it taking into account how do

7 you derive the price (inaudible)?

8 MS. COUGHLIN: We guess.

9 (Laughter.)

10 MALE SPEAKER: This is why we're having this

11 debate because --

12 MS. COUGHLIN: We have (simultaneous speaking).

13 MR. deLASKI: You're guessing at it, and part

14 of --

15 MS. COUGHLIN: So you can look historically if

16 you just -- you look at the data a different way, you can

17 see, we have a measure of business income per square

18 foot. So that goes up and down over time, and sheets go

19 up and down over time.

20 And you can kind of say, "Well, rather than a

21 price increase, a drop in income has the same effect on

22 the finances." So if you sort of see the economic ups
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1 and downs and periods where people are making less money,

2 they buy fewer units. You can kind of infer a range of

3 price elasticities from that and it's around, you know,

4 minus point something.

5 So we're using I think minus .7 right now.

6 Which the data is really not that constrained, it's

7 around minus .5, maybe a little bit lower, maybe a little

8 bit higher. So that's really the only thing we've been

9 able to do.

10 Now, another thing we can do is if we get a

11 better distribution of shipments by efficiency and price

12 by efficiency, we can also infer price elasticity there

13 to try to constrain it a little bit. But it's a very --

14 like Greg was saying yesterday, it's the holy grail of

15 these things. There's very little information on price

16 elasticity for the commercial sector.

17 MR. deLASKI: But I guess what I would say, I

18 guess the question -- I threw it back to you guys which I

19 can't answer, but is there in the literature more broadly

20 what you're inferring? So you're saying that there's

21 some literature on price elasticity for a commercial

22 business decision?
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: No, there's almost none.

2 MR. deLASKI: Almost none?

3 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, we haven't found anything.

4 MR. ROSENQUIST: A lot on automobiles, some on

5 residential products.

6 MALE SPEAKER: For businesses, their

7 decisions --

8 MS. COUGHLIN: No, it's all or nothing.

9 MR. deLASKI: This is a pretty unusual one.

10 Because of what John's saying, because of the

11 alternative -- the alternative is -- because of the

12 alternative of being 80 percent of the cost of

13 replacement, any data you would be able to find would

14 typically not have that kind of comparison?

15 MR. SACHS: I wonder -- this is Harvey. I

16 wonder if there's another proxy variable that you hinted

17 at that's very large effect for the smaller equipment in

18 particular and that's basically the fraction of vacant

19 retail space in that metropolitan area year. But that's

20 usually variable with the -- in the cycle.

21 And if there's a lot of vacant stores around my

22 strip mall or a closed mall or anything else, I need this
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1 to decide what that would sit because the hopes of

2 renting that space are low.

3 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah.

4 MR. SACHS: So I might do a neither repair nor

5 replace for a year or two.

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Do they have the incentive to

7 literally let it sit there abandoned, shall I say?

8 MR. SACHS: Because the loss of rental is also

9 tax-deductible.

10 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, the loss of rental, yeah.

11 MR. SACHS: So I think this is basically an area

12 where -- when you struggle mightily, but you've probably

13 done the best that can be done.

14 MR. CYMBALSKY: Is there any chance -- I don't

15 know if we have compressor people in the room, but --

16 MALE SPEAKER: We do.

17 MR. CYMBALSKY: I'll put my lawyer hat on for a

18 second. I knew the answer to that question.

19 I'm just curious if there was a way to map

20 compressor shipments separate from what's going into the

21 equipment.

22 So there's a million compressor shipments at
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1 800,000 that go into the equipment. Well, lo and behold,

2 where are these other ones going? I don't know. Just

3 thinking out loud.

4 MR. ZENDAH: So you're thinking service versus

5 solely on shipments?

6 MR. SACHS: I believe -- Harvey -- residential

7 sites on 2006.

8 MR. ZENDAH: I can try to get a percentage, I

9 just don't know off the top of my head. I mean, we have

10 ways based on our billable material to tell which one is

11 going into service. Do they get uses in that fashion? I

12 can guarantee you I don't know. Some use what we call

13 OEMs (inaudible) service, but at least we can look at

14 that and just get a percentage if that helps.

15 MR. deLASKI: This is Andrew again. The other

16 factor that occurs to me, because now we're speculating

17 on what decisions -- what are the features -- factors

18 that are affecting the decision-maker which might be a

19 building owner, might be a tenant, you know, the other

20 factor is the quality of the service; right?

21 So how many small buildings have you been in

22 where the service isn't very good in the HVAC system? So
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1 you know, and just -- if your decision is 80 percent of

2 the cost to put a compressor in your existing system that

3 you may be not very satisfied with versus putting in a

4 new system that you would hope would be better, I think

5 there's a pretty -- it's not just a cost issue here, it's

6 a quality of the service.

7 And I think if you had data on the quality of

8 the service, you might -- you knew that X percent of

9 people think that this -- you said I think there's

10 another motivator here that new equipment is generally

11 better than equipment that's installed today.

12 MR. ZENDAH: Sami Zendah of Emerson again. So

13 to do that, I think we're talking commercial three-phase

14 equipment, 6-ton and above. So the assumption, either

15 start at 6 -- I mean, the 6-ton could have 3-ton

16 compressors, so that's the issue here.

17 I mean, if I start including the residential

18 single phase, I mean, it's going to offset the data. So

19 we can look at it both ways: 3-ton ways or 6 tons and

20 above, it depends on the group.

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: So again, it would be hard

22 because, you're right, 20-ton, some may be using 4, 5
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1 types of compressors.

2 MS. HOOTMAN: Yes.

3 MR. ZENDAH: So we can look at it from 3-ton and

4 above 3 phase.

5 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. And reinforcing

6 Andrew's argument, I remember Frank from Trane saying

7 something to the effect that compressors don't die,

8 they're killed.

9 MR. ZENDAH: Thank you. Usually other

10 components would kill the compressor --

11 (Laughter.)

12 MS. HOOTMAN: The practices may be --

13 MR. ZENDAH: They're designed to live 15 years.

14 MR. SACHS: But other issues -- and what I'm

15 trying to say is, that service contractor or a smart

16 owner is going to understand that if he doesn't know the

17 reason that compressor quit working, he doesn't know if

18 it died or was killed, and that is a factor that can be

19 used to tilt his decision, I speculate. But I think that

20 makes people less inclined to replace compressors in

21 larger equipment.

22 MR. STARR: So this is Louis. You know, I was
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1 just -- so Mark, here, I actually asked his contractors

2 the same questions. And right now, basically on 10- to

3 15-year-old equipment, 80 percent will replace a new

4 unit. And so one would think if the equipment comes more

5 expensive in the future, it probably isn't the same

6 percent that some would decide to, "Hey, I'm going to

7 keep the old unit."

8 But if you think about halfway between

9 80 percent and that, maybe it's some number like 10

10 percent, and that seems like in the middle. Where 10

11 percent more instead of being 80 percent, maybe less

12 would move it and maybe we can find some number like that

13 where, you know, it would move down a little bit, but not

14 much.

15 MR. TERZIGNI: Mark Terzigni with SMAC. So as

16 Louis said, I asked the question in one of my now

17 semi-famous polls: "If the compressor is bad, what

18 percentage of customers decide to replace the entire unit

19 instead of replacing just the compressor?"

20 I got a couple of different types answers. One

21 was 50 percent; you've got a 50/50 shot. They didn't

22 break it down by tonnage or size of unit.
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1 Another answer that's a little bit more divided

2 out is the unit is between zero and five years, 5

3 percent. If the unit is between 5 and 10 years, 35

4 percent. And if the unit is 10 to 15 years, 80 percent

5 of your customers would buy a new unit as opposed to

6 replacing.

7 MR. deLASKI: And these are 5-ton and greater?

8 MR. TERZIGNI: The whole poll was based on

9 package unit, seven-and-a-half ton, 15-ton, 30-ton.

10 So I define that 30 goes all the way up to the

11 62, or what -- so --

12 MR. STARR: Do you have a sense of how -- if the

13 equipment became more expensive, do you have a sense of

14 how those numbers might change?

15 I actually don't really care so much about the

16 zero to five and five to ten; it's more the older ones.

17 MR. TERZIGNI: So what --

18 MS. HOOTMAN: That's Louis.

19 MR. STARR: Louis.

20 MR. TERZIGNI: I'm probably going to say it's a

21 function of how well the salesperson is, you know -- is

22 convincing the customer, "Are you going to get a return?"
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1 (Inaudible) hypothesizing (inaudible), "Am I going to see

2 a benefit at this point?" And that's what it's going to

3 be. And that's going to vary from person to person.

4 You have some people that will buy at the

5 absolute minimum (inaudible). You have some people that,

6 if it's a company that tends to market -- that they're

7 green and they're going to buy the high-end, they see a

8 marketing value regardless of the equipment (inaudible).

9 MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) market for comfort?

10 MR. TERZIGNI: (Inaudible) it all depends on the

11 past history.

12 MR. CYMBALSKY: So here, this is the slide. So

13 the real question is, in my mind, so the outlay has to be

14 almost 9,000 when the person -- in today's world; right?

15 So what we're saying is: What would the extra 3,000 over

16 the 9 cost for that 10 percent?

17 And then we had a comment from Arthur Kahn, so

18 his comment is that the standard may change the footprint

19 of the box. And so maybe that impacts --

20 MALE SPEAKER: The cost?

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: Well, it impacts the

22 repair/replace decision --
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1 MS. HOOTMAN: Sure.

2 MR. CYMBALSKY: -- as well, maybe. So that's

3 his comment.

4 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, it does.

5 MS. COUGHLIN: So that will -- when we settle on

6 our method for treating the conversion, that will go into

7 the total installed cost. So you could have the same

8 elasticity parameter, but you just have larger costs and

9 that's going to drop your new shipments.

10 MR. WHITWELL: Right. Katie, this is Bob

11 Whitwell from Carrier, and I apologize if I zoned out and

12 missed it, but on the elasticity slide, the -- there was

13 a significant difference on the 15-ton compared to the

14 seven-and-a-half and the 30-ton.

15 MS. COUGHLIN: Right. And the parameters don't

16 change, so it's the cost.

17 MALE SPEAKER: It's the cost.

18 MS. COUGHLIN: So the cost increment -- the

19 percentage cost increment is lower for the 15-ton.

20 That's essentially what's driving that.

21 MR. WHITWELL: So behavior's the same, but --

22 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. I mean, we could use a
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1 different parameter for the different classes. But,

2 we -- again, since we have so little information, we just

3 use the same parameter for all of them.

4 MR. STARR: So this is Louis. I was kind of

5 wondering, so is essentially the simple payback, would

6 that be the business decision that you would make between

7 repair and replace?

8 I mean, in other words, would the salesman be

9 saying, for example, he'd say -- EL-3s the standard for

10 example. He'd say, "Your payback is going to be 3.9

11 years." Is that how you sell it?

12 MS. COUGHLIN: You're asking the wrong person.

13 MALE SPEAKER: Depends on the customer, and

14 that's only if -- those tend to be the folks that are

15 buying high-end that would ask that kind of a question.

16 MR. STARR: But I meant that just from a

17 straight business case. Let's just assume it was

18 (simultaneous speaking) so what's that number going to

19 be? How are you coming up with return on investment?

20 Because I guess you could do it two ways, you

21 could just look at it as a straight business case here.

22 You can make an assumption about what the relationship,
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1 the owner that owns a building, he's making a decision on

2 whether to repair or replace and see what that number is,

3 and then see -- you know, make some decisions based on

4 some other things after that.

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: What happens to the efficiency

6 of the unit when you just replace the compressor? I

7 assume you might get a better compressor, no?

8 (Simultaneous speaking) so it will just maintain

9 whatever --

10 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, it would be the same.

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: It would be the same? Okay.

12 MALE SPEAKER: (Simultaneous speaking) 90

13 percent lower than new to begin with because the rest of

14 it is -- (simultaneous speaking).

15 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, because of a dirty coil --

16 MALE SPEAKER: It's going to be less than new,

17 anyway.

18 MR. deLASKI: Well, Bob, you raised that

19 question, Bob. You would say it would be the same if

20 it's not still available?

21 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, I mean it's not -- if that

22 compressor's not available anymore, then that's something
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1 that would have to be addressed.

2 MR. deLASKI: So if the compressor's not

3 available that was -- is the replacement -- how does

4 that -- is that going to make --

5 MALE SPEAKER: The replacement compressor would

6 be more efficient.

7 MR. WHITWELL: Could be, could be, probably.

8 MS. HOOTMAN: Could be.

9 MR. WHITWELL: And probably, but --

10 MALE SPEAKER: I would say probably. Based on

11 my experience, probably would be --

12 MS. HOOTMAN: So --

13 MR. THARP: Well, yeah (simultaneous speaking)

14 because the older compressors are typically obsoleted, so

15 when a generation of new compressors comes out, you

16 typically say replace a CRKF with a CRK-6 on that

17 residential site.

18 MS. HOOTMAN: Right.

19 MALE SPEAKER: K-6 is more efficient.

20 MS. HOOTMAN: Right, but there is -- you know,

21 you still will -- this is Jill from Trane, and I'm also a

22 compressor manufacturer.
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1 So the other thing you'll do is if that

2 fittings, you know, et cetera, had changed significantly,

3 you'll still make the old one if that fit-up is an issue.

4 So you could still be making some of the old compressors

5 for a fit-up issue (simultaneous speaking) --

6 MR. THARP: It would be a like for like?

7 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

8 MR. ZENDAH: So if it's dropped in --

9 MALE SPEAKER: So what do you do --

10 (simultaneous speaking).

11 MS. HOOTMAN: So one of things we've also --

12 Sami and I have been talking about, too, and I can

13 certainly look at our compressor shipment stuff. You

14 have to realize, compressors for service. I don't know

15 where they go. And I use the very same compressor in an

16 air cooled chiller as I do a package unit.

17 MALE SPEAKER: You could chill a piece of --

18 MS. HOOTMAN: So in OEM, I know where I ship it

19 to an OEM in my original, but I do not know when service

20 stock work goes.

21 MR. ZENDAH: So some OEMs have (inaudible) based

22 on what you're saying?
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1 MS. HOOTMAN: Getting some of these numbers can

2 be shaded a little bit. Obviously unitary is bigger than

3 air-cooled shipment, air-cooled chillers, but there's

4 multiples of these compressors in air-cooled chillers.

5 They go up to 600 tons and there's, you know, like 10

6 tons in those things, so --

7 MR. ZENDAH: I agree. Same as when we ship to

8 an OEM, they have their own service organization. So

9 when we ship it to them, they make rooftop chillers,

10 everything -- it's the same exact -- the same compressor,

11 just used in a different --

12 MS. HOOTMAN: So while we can get it, all I'm

13 saying is, I don't know if it's going to show data that

14 you want to show.

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: Well, look. You know, I'm the

16 last one who wants to create more work for anyone. So it

17 sounds like it might be a wild goose chase, so I'm happy

18 to take a different tack here. And maybe, you know, if

19 we do a sensitivity with no elasticity, what would the

20 numbers look like? And bound it.

21 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: Is that easier and more -- you
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1 know, just look at the numbers and say, where it really

2 comes in for us is -- and more for you guys is the MIA.

3 So the drop in shipments is going to hit the Manufacturer

4 Impact Analysis, and that's really where it shakes.

5 MR. TERZIGNI: Can you (inaudible) elasticity in

6 the other direction, too? I mean --

7 MALE SPEAKER: I doubt that. I mean, to me, 10

8 percent's a big number already. Based on a 20 percent

9 increment, I don't think we want to go the other way.

10 MR. SACHS: Well, for the seven-and-a-half ton,

11 it's not a 20, it's about 15 percent.

12 MR. CYMBALSKY: So what I'm saying is that the

13 compressor cost is 80 percent of the replacement.

14 MALE SPEAKER: That's not -- that's not the

15 case.

16 MS. HOOTMAN: Which one are you looking at, what

17 slide?

18 MALE SPEAKER: He was looking at for the

19 seven-and-a-half ton, it's slide 67.

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't think you can tell.

21 MALE SPEAKER: 4,000 versus 8- to 9,000.

22 MS. HOOTMAN: This one?
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1 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah.

2 MS. HOOTMAN: So --

3 MALE SPEAKER: What are you at?

4 MR. SACHS: The compressor replacement cost

5 there --

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Is 4,000 --

7 MR. SACHS: $4,000 versus a new installation.

8 MS. HOOTMAN: Which is 8 --

9 MR. SACHS: 8. So it's not the 80 percent

10 number may have been high or may be reasonable for a

11 30-ton, but that's not the number for the smaller -- the

12 smaller equipment.

13 The other question I had is a lot of this

14 equipment has multiple compressors, some of them smaller.

15 What was your assumption around -- I mean, are you

16 changing all the compressors? Are you changing -- if the

17 system has up to four compressors, what's your assumption

18 and what's included in that cost?

19 MS. COUGHLIN: So again, we don't really --

20 we're not trying to model the decision process. So yeah,

21 we're trying to kind of simplify the model because we

22 know we can't model all these details.
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1 So it's really just -- first of all, I want to

2 emphasize in the base-case, people are making these

3 decisions, right? That's implicit. So we're just trying

4 to model: What is the impact of the additional price

5 increase on a new unit?

6 And just using the price elasticity. So we

7 don't know what fails or why it fails or how easy it is

8 to fix or anything. We just have an estimate of, if the

9 price of a new unit goes up X percent, there's going to

10 be this fraction of people who will not buy it. And then

11 in the -- in the -- I don't know in the repair.

12 MR. ROSENQUIST: I was going to say, for

13 seven-and-a-half tons, I believe it's one compressor

14 replacement. But I'm not clear on 15 and 30.

15 MS. COUGHLIN: We're sort of -- you know,

16 conceptually it's sort of -- it has to be what we call a

17 "life-extending repair." So if you didn't do a major

18 investment, it wouldn't work anymore. But beyond that, I

19 can't -- I don't know what to say.

20 I mean, I don't know how likely it is that more

21 than one compressor would fail simultaneously, so, you

22 know, that's --
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1 MR. ZENDAH: Sami Zendah. To this point, it

2 could be a unit to conversion unit, the other is fine.

3 (Inaudible) That kind of scenario, how you capture it

4 here.

5 MS. COUGHLIN: Greg, this is one compressor

6 replacement.

7 MR. ROSENQUIST: I know, for seven-and-a-half

8 tons. Again, I'd like to say 15 and 30 as well, but I

9 just don't know for certain.

10 MR. SACHS: As you go up in the capacity, you

11 may or may not -- you know --

12 FEMALE SPEAKER: The independent --

13 MR. SACHS: -- you know, it's going to be

14 separate circuits. And it could be the same size

15 compressor as far as the seven-and-a-half and the 15 is

16 just two seven-and-a-half ton compressors.

17 FEMALE SPEAKER: May.

18 MALE SPEAKER: One of them -- may -- I just

19 would like to understand what would make those sums.

20 MR. ZENDAH: See, there are uneven circuitries.

21 I mean, there's all kind of stuff. I just don't know how

22 much you want to get into it.
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1 MR. deLASKI: It strikes me, John, that your

2 expression of bounding it with a sensitivity would be

3 helpful.

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, just to see what the zero

5 is. And to me, this strikes me as high. But, you

6 know --

7 MR. deLASKI: Yeah. And I guess the other

8 problem with this is that we're trying to, as we all

9 know, sort of model a dynamic situation.

10 So the manufacturers all have a lot of incentive

11 to sell new units, right, so they're going to be doing

12 their best to arm their salespeople with the tools to go

13 out and say, "You don't want to repair these things. You

14 want to go out and buy a new one." So that's what the

15 market would like to do, at least the folks who sell new

16 units. And they're going to differentiate why the new

17 unit's better.

18 But going back to Mark's point, which is every

19 situation is different and can you do that. But I think

20 they're going to be -- so we're kind of tinkering around.

21 Is it 10 percent? Is it -- that's why you do a

22 sensitivity.
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1 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. And I also like

2 John's suggestion. Louis was hinting at but didn't

3 express, one of the other parameters which is 2019 which

4 might be roughly when it would take effect. The youngest

5 of the R-22 systems will be nine years old. And that's

6 likely to be yet another --

7 MS. HOOTMAN: R-22?

8 MALE SPEAKER: Made in 2002.

9 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah. Okay.

10 MR. SACHS: That was 2010, wasn't it?

11 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

12 MR. SACHS: So that's yet another factor that

13 which we have a lot of uncertainty. We don't know --

14 MS. HOOTMAN: Of the R-410 systems.

15 MR. deLASKI: No, she's right.

16 MR. SACHS: The last -- the youngest -- since we

17 phased out or turned to a new equipment January 1st,

18 2010.

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Wouldn't it be 10 years? Really,

20 it was made somewhere in 2009.

21 MALE SPEAKER: Because there's a lot of stock.

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: You want to do a sensitivity
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1 whether it's 9 or 10?

2 (Laughter.)

3 MS. HOOTMAN: We weren't allowed to make it

4 after 1/1/2010 is all I'm saying.

5 MR. SACHS: I'm only -- we're all on the same

6 page, ma'am. I'm just trying to establish that there are

7 other variables in this that will have a real impact on

8 the repair versus replace.

9 MR. THARP: And especially with EPA with the ban

10 on R-22 production after 2020; right?

11 MR. STARR: You won't be able to repair the

12 compressor is what he's saying. The R-22 won't be

13 available -- you'll go out -- actually, I'm thinking

14 about this on my house. I have a 1996 Trane. If that

15 thing ever fails, I'm going to be getting a new split

16 system because I won't be able to get the equipment to

17 replace it (simultaneous speaking).

18 (Laughter.)

19 MR. SACHS: In other words, John's suggestion

20 is --

21 MS. HOOTMAN: I mean, we can get him an R-22

22 right now.
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1 MR. STARR: I would also say --

2 MS. HOOTMAN: He wouldn't let that happen.

3 MR. STARR: I would say my unit is 20 years old,

4 by the way. It's a Trane, it's 20 --

5 MS. HOOTMAN: I'm not making a comment on the

6 record. (Simultaneous speaking).

7 MR. SACHS: (Inaudible) the court reporter --

8 MR. CYMBALSKY: We're not going to talk about

9 dry shift R-22 (simultaneous speaking). Not on my dime,

10 we're not.

11 MR. SACHS: I'm only trying to make a point

12 that's it's so dynamic that we can't do much better than

13 John's effort (simultaneous speaking).

14 MR. CYMBALSKY: I agree, Harvey. So I was

15 thinking out loud with the compressor shipments.

16 Obviously these guys talked me out of that idea. So I

17 think the sensitivity is the best way to kind of just to

18 see how sensitive the answers are to this.

19 MR. SACHS: There's horses at least prostrate.

20 Can we move to a slightly different question?

21 MR. CYMBALSKY: Is everyone comfortable for -- I

22 mean, everybody good?
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1 MALE SPEAKER: Just checking the room. Not a

2 formal vote, yeah. Okay.

3 MR. SACHS: I'm struck -- this is Harvey --

4 struck comparing slides 83 and 84 that particularly for

5 the 65 to 135 category.

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Those -- that's what he's talking

7 about (speaking under breath).

8 MR. SACHS: The current analysis shows roughly

9 20 percent higher shipments than the NOPR analysis did,

10 and much less falloff at higher EL levels. And I just

11 wanted to get some sort of an intuitive sense of --

12 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah. I mean, they're not --

13 they're not that different.

14 MR. SACHS: Well, the 135, it's 5 million versus

15 4 million.

16 MS. COUGHLIN: Okay. So the base-case shipments

17 are not that different. Yes, the falloff is very

18 different because this has the lifetime thing that we

19 don't want to talk about anymore. We shouldn't have done

20 it, so --

21 MR. SACHS: So that's all that lifetime

22 artifact?
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: Yep.

2 MR. SACHS: Thank you. That's what I was trying

3 to get at.

4 MR. BANTLE: Any more questions on the shipment

5 stuff taking into account the sensitivity that will be

6 done? And we have to roll in the new data, so -- so

7 those are the two (simultaneous speaking).

8 MS. HOOTMAN: And the new data will be ready

9 when?

10 FEMALE SPEAKER: Tomorrow; right?

11 MALE SPEAKER: Oh, I thought it was today.

12 (Simultaneous speaking).

13 (Laughter.)

14 MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) could we do a

15 sensitivity analysis on that?

16 MR. CYMBALSKY: (Simultaneous speaking) I always

17 say, "My diet starts tomorrow," and I never get there.

18 MALE SPEAKER: Yes, but you can get half the

19 distance to it.

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, getting closer and closer.

21 So I think back to you -- so that's it on

22 shipments?
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1 MALE SPEAKER: Right.

2 MALE SPEAKER: We'll take a -- take 15 and --

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: Take 15 and we'll be back at

4 9:45.

5 MR. deLASKI: Is there coffee somewhere that you

6 would advise us to do or is it too far?

7 MALE SPEAKER: Go down to the food court.

8 MR. SACHS: Go down to the food court at this

9 time.

10 MR. deLASKI: And we can get back in?

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, make sure you bring your

12 badge (simultaneous speaking).

13 (Recess taken.)

14 MR. BANTLE: Let's go back on the record.

15 I think we are -- we do have Nick and John, they

16 can come in. Okay. I will pass it over to you, John.

17 Now we're back on the webinar, as well.

18 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. So we've kind of

19 completed the formal presentation that we prepared for

20 these two days. I know we're going to go back and

21 recover some -- some ground that we brought up that I

22 don't think we've had complete clarification on -- at
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1 least in our minds. So Detlef, why don't you talk about

2 the COP/IEER mapping.

3 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah, one thing -- this is

4 Detlef Westphalen from Navigant -- we had some discussion

5 early on about efficiency levels and, you know, for most

6 of the discussion that we've had since then, we've

7 focused on electric heat or no heat air conditioners.

8 And obviously there are other aspects of other types of

9 equipment that are in the rule and, you know, during the

10 NOPR phase we established what we would be suggesting

11 going forward with -- for the efficiency levels for those

12 other equipment types.

13 And so that's something that's on the table that

14 really should be resolved before we go much further. And

15 I know there was some discussion of what DOE perhaps

16 should do in order to address those other equipment

17 types. So we have the IEERs for those other equipment

18 types: The gas units, and also the heat pumps, and then

19 the COP for the heat pumps.

20 MS. HOOTMAN: And something else I want to make

21 sure because, Nick, this kind of goes back to those

22 numbers and make sure we clarify what's in the numbers
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1 and not in the numbers.

2 So -- also this covers split systems 5 through

3 20 tons, split air conditioning. We keep talking about

4 rooftop, rooftop, rooftop, rooftop, those were split

5 systems that are covered by 5 and 20 tons as well. Not

6 that I'm saying it's a different efficiency metric

7 necessarily. But when we talk about you want package

8 data, you want rooftop data, guess what? It doesn't

9 include shipping support. Now, I think the totals do.

10 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah, the totals do.

11 MS. HOOTMAN: But when you were asking for all

12 this BAB and all this other kind of stuff. First of all,

13 economizers don't go in split systems -- well, they can,

14 but it doesn't come from us. It's a real build-up

15 system, they do that. And you don't have on split

16 cooling shipments is always done by just the compressor

17 bearing units or the outdoor unit.

18 We don't track shipments for the air handlers.

19 So that's, you know, in the CV/VAV stuff that we did,

20 those are almost all CV; there's no VAV in split systems.

21 But they're also not necessarily -- I will tell you that

22 I can -- that I didn't supply that data. I didn't put
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1 splits in there.

2 MR. WHITWELL: So I think -- Bob Whitwell from

3 Carrier. The question is, so the shipment data that we

4 were looking at just prior to this was that just for the

5 rooftops or did that include the splits and other types

6 of product that are included in this?

7 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah, I think it includes

8 splits. But, you know, off the top of my head, I

9 honestly can't --

10 MS. HOOTMAN: Because the cost data doesn't

11 because I -- because they are different costs, and I'll

12 tell you that we've been giving it more packaging cost

13 stuff.

14 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah. And, you know, this has

15 been a fast-moving series of meetings. And so we put the

16 focus on the rooftop versus the air conditioners with

17 electric or no heat.

18 And so at some point very soon we have to come

19 to some understanding of how would the group like to deal

20 with all those other metrics and the different equipment

21 types?

22 MS. HOOTMAN: Right.
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1 MR. WESTPHALEN: And if that means back to the

2 drawing board, you know, obviously, you know --

3 MS. HOOTMAN: I don't know it does. I'm

4 wondering if we can figure out scale, you know, X amount

5 of percent less -- X of cost, X amount percent less and

6 percent or (coughing).

7 MALE SPEAKER: Or --

8 MS. HOOTMAN: We're looking at cost of the comps

9 or costs of the splits.

10 MR. CYMBALSKY: Or we have what we have in the

11 NOPR.

12 MR. WESTPHALEN: In the NOPR we have -- we have

13 applied set efficiency levels where there are

14 differentials for the gas heat.

15 MALE SPEAKER: Right, right, et cetera.

16 MS. HOOTMAN: Right. I was more thinking of the

17 actual costs.

18 MR. WHITWELL: So speaking of that, though --

19 this is Bob Whitwell --

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: So if you change these costs,

21 are you saying can we apply scale --

22 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.
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1 MR. CYMBALSKY: -- to the other one?

2 MR. deLASKI: But I guess the question is: Do

3 you need to go through that exercise or do you do what we

4 did in the NOPR which is just, you make some engineering

5 judgment as to what the difference -- for any given

6 standard what the difference is for that if you're

7 choosing given EL, okay. And that's the adjusted to the

8 IEER to this equipment was the question.

9 MS. HOOTMAN: Right. And I guess back to Katie

10 in shipment data, you're not distinguishing what

11 buildings and heat pumps, what buildings are package

12 rooftops, what buildings --

13 MS. COUGHLIN: We do split out buildings from

14 heat pumps.

15 MS. HOOTMAN: Okay.

16 MS. COUGHLIN: But we don't subdivide them any

17 further.

18 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. And I guess I'm

19 curious how big a beast I'm hunting. Are these --

20 this -- the -- other than resistance or none, it's a big

21 animal. What about the splits? Are these 5 percent of

22 the market? 2 percent of the market? In the 5 to 20.
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1 MS. HOOTMAN: In the 5 to 20, yeah (simultaneous

2 speaking).

3 MR. SACHS: 10, 20?

4 MS. HOOTMAN: 20, yes, probably.

5 MR. SACHS: So at 20-ish there's -- and you

6 always see that, as well, in the other firms?

7 MS. HOOTMAN: 15 and 20? I think it was around

8 15.

9 MR. SACHS: No, I'm sorry. The splits leaving

10 out the heat pumps out, what fraction is not packaged but

11 are part splits?

12 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I'd have to check. I don't

13 have that off the top of my head.

14 MR. WESTPHALEN: I guess one suggestion was:

15 Look at a different cost. But then, I guess -- you know,

16 the other suggestions, you know, look at the

17 differentials. We have done some looking at that, and we

18 didn't put it in the presentation -- the IEER

19 differential for gas heat versus no heat, for instance.

20 Or for heat pump versus AC.

21 And looking at a lot of variation -- but I'm

22 looking at that data, it would suggest that on the IEER
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1 that the differentials that were in (inaudible) are

2 reasonable.

3 MR. SACHS: Can you remind us -- this is

4 Harvey -- can you remind us how a map against the 90.1

5 differentials?

6 MR. WESTPHALEN: We used exactly the 90.1

7 differentials.

8 MR. SACHS: So you came out with a strong

9 feeling that the 90.1 differentials are reasonable?

10 MR. WESTPHALEN: That was my recollection of the

11 data.

12 MS. HOOTMAN: It is.

13 MR. WHITWELL: Between the NOPR phase and now we

14 had somebody look at all the data very closely, and the

15 .2 for the gas heat, you know, the averages are .1 to

16 .25, that kind of thing if you look at like one with gas,

17 one without.

18 For the heat pumps, my recollection is that it's

19 similar to -- I think it's more like .5 differential or

20 maybe a 1 differential at the high levels to get numbers

21 exactly.

22 MR. SACHS: But again, consistent with the 90.1?
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1 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, yeah.

2 MR. SACHS: 6.8/1.12.

3 MR. deLASKI: And we're talking about IEER now.

4 But we did negotiate those levels as part of the 2005

5 negotiation, a differential been done before?

6 MALE SPEAKER: Two times.

7 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

8 MALE SPEAKER: Two times before.

9 MR. WHITWELL: So for gas heat unit and also for

10 heat pumps on the EER, and that's actually what that is

11 today the 90.1 split as well the differential, that's

12 what was in the NOPR as well.

13 MR. SACHS: So does anyone in the room consider

14 himself or herself smarter than Detlef and 90.1?

15 (Laughing.)

16 MS. HOOTMAN: No, I'm not --

17 (Laughing.)

18 MALE SPEAKER: Let me think about that. Off the

19 record (simultaneous speaking).

20 MR. SACHS: So I'm hearing that nobody strongly

21 objects to using values developed by consultants and

22 consistent with 90.1 for those IEER differentials --
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1 MR. HUNT: I second that motion, Marshall.

2 MR. THARP: Sorry, I was trying to look up some

3 data.

4 What was the comment on the IEER delta's .2 is

5 the comment has been made is basically the fan power

6 that's going to take this relatively consistent -- even

7 though you're going up -- I think that when you get to

8 the higher efficiencies, a slightly higher delta -- the

9 fan power is a higher delta of total power.

10 MS. HOOTMAN: Oh, I see what you're saying.

11 MR. THARP: So I think at some point -- I don't

12 know which EL level it will be -- but at some point I

13 think the .2 delta should go to .3 delta just because

14 that fan power to get over the gas heat exchangers --

15 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, another tier, good point

16 (simultaneous speaking).

17 MR. deLASKI: Maybe we should circle back to

18 this when we get to levels?

19 MALE SPEAKER: I think so. Right.

20 MR. deLASKI: And you guys can look over -- you

21 look at any given level, you're going to look at your

22 products like you guys did and everybody would have to do
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1 at that point.

2 MR. WESTPHALEN: But -- this is Detlef again --

3 remember that the energy use is inversely proportional to

4 the IEER. So that .2 at a 14 is less energy contribution

5 than at a 12.

6 MR. THARP: Depending on how the manufacturer

7 chooses to get the IEER level.

8 MR. WESTPHALEN: I'm just saying theoretically,

9 forget about a .2 out of 12 is more than the .2 out of

10 14. And it's the inverse of the IEER that gives you your

11 energy use. And I understand your point.

12 MR. THARP: Right.

13 MR. WESTPHALEN: But, you know, the question is:

14 Does that already scale up as you go up in IEER? We can

15 look at the map and potentially look at the designs and

16 see if that (inaudible).

17 MR. THARP: I mean, as we look at it with our

18 products, that is where we estimated that at some point

19 it ought to go to a .3 delta.

20 MR. SACHS: Okay. Not ready for thumbs up?

21 MR. BANTLE: Yeah, so we can hold up a vote on

22 that one, but it's something that the manufacturers will
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1 keep looking into.

2 MR. STARR: I have -- this is Louis Starr, and I

3 have a question. Is there any concern about if we agree

4 on certain EL levels that that would affect products

5 moving over in split systems in lieu of (inaudible) or no

6 concern about that at all? Meaning they would not buy

7 your rooftop might be a better option.

8 MALE SPEAKER: Something cheaper --

9 MR. STARR: Or the standard levels or stuff

10 so --

11 MR. SACHS: Well, a split inherently takes

12 inside the storage space and requires new duct work.

13 MR. WHITWELL: So your changing from RTU to

14 split I don't think is not going to change very much.

15 MR. SACHS: Maybe in marginal construction, but

16 this is not an RTU issue.

17 MS. HOOTMAN: What?

18 MALE SPEAKER: Changing split to rooftop or vice

19 versa.

20 MS. HOOTMAN: Changing what to where?

21 MALE SPEAKER: Somebody make a decision on it

22 and typically a replacement, whether you're going to
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1 use (simultaneous speaking) almost always.

2 MS. HOOTMAN: Almost always. So you have a

3 major renovation up there, because if they didn't have a

4 roof structure before, they didn't have a roof --

5 MR. THARP: (Simultaneous speaking) yeah, and

6 they might be looking for features of a rooftop that you

7 don't get with a split.

8 MR. CYMBALSKY: So is the only question we're

9 struggling with here is what the mapping is the .2 versus

10 the .3? Or is there, based on that mark, that leads to

11 our analysis?

12 I heard two different things, so we're asking

13 because we want to make sure we don't have to do any more

14 work. And then I heard, well, it's just -- "We could

15 pick whatever the differential is when we get down to

16 negotiating." So which one is it?

17 MR. WHITWELL: I think it -- from my perspective

18 on the manufacturers side -- we have to look at -- we

19 have to look at what the fan power percentage is going to

20 be of the total power as you get up into the higher EL

21 levels. And, see, if the .2 or the .3 differential is,

22 you know, if we've got to go from .2 to a .3 at some
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1 point. I think that is what -- I think that's what we

2 need to do.

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. And the other

4 consideration --

5 MR. WHITWELL: I think that's what you were

6 implying.

7 MALE SPEAKER: Yes.

8 MR. WESTPHALEN: With the question to the SAV

9 and BAV, I think that split would push you in the other

10 direction.

11 MR. WHITWELL: Well, the SAV and BAV, it doesn't

12 do anything for heat performance because you're

13 actually -- you wouldn't want to go to lower fan speeds.

14 If you do, you're going to reduce the efficiency because

15 you're going to have less air over the -- what's now the

16 condenser at a heat pump.

17 MALE SPEAKER: But this is the IEER which would

18 be the cooling movement.

19 MALE SPEAKER: Okay. Fair enough. Right

20 (inaudible) so state your question again.

21 MR. WESTPHALEN: I guess, you know, these levels

22 are typically pushing, and 90.1 is pushing the designs to
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1 SAV for cooling load and the IEER is very much weighted

2 on the 75 percent and lower load points where you have

3 the staging of the airflow. So that -- you know, the

4 question would be, you know: Would that mitigate the

5 push up to a .3 differential, the higher level?

6 Something to consider. I don't know.

7 MR. WHITWELL: A heat pump BAV -- I don't think

8 we have E-pump BAVs. Do we have E-pump up BAVs?

9 MS. HOOTMAN: Nope.

10 MR. WHITWELL: Stage their value --

11 MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, I thought you were

12 talking about E-pumps, but I thought we were talking

13 about the .2 for the gas.

14 MR. WHITWELL: Okay. I was thinking .2 for gas.

15 MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, for heat pump that's

16 greater than .2 at most of these higher levels. I don't

17 have the table in front of me, but it's more like .7 to

18 1, depending on the class.

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Well, you realize that nobody

20 notes them above except me, and I just happen to have one

21 that's at like 240-plus capacity. There's nothing else

22 besides that.
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1 MALE SPEAKER: Would you want to hold that heat

2 pump into the large class so that we don't have to have a

3 very large class?

4 MS. HOOTMAN: We'll have to see where these end

5 up, what positions these end up, and what we will have to

6 do. That may be a totally redesigned cabinet now. I

7 can't tell you what we'll do with it.

8 MR. WESTPHALEN: I guess, going to John's

9 question, I mean, what we could do is for next time or

10 even if it makes sense to try to package some of our

11 research, you know, to send it to the group, you know, in

12 the next few days, say, that could help in your thinking

13 about --

14 MS. HOOTMAN: And that's different than the TSD;

15 Yes? No? Or was what you put into the TSD stuff?

16 MR. WESTPHALEN: What we did is we went back to

17 the AHRI database and tried to look at --

18 MS. HOOTMAN: Oh, okay.

19 MR. WESTPHALEN: -- you know, comparable units

20 to what's the differential. And, you know, in

21 retrospect -- plus we're so busy trying to put everything

22 together for today that we did. But in retrospect, it
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1 would have been helpful to prepared that representative.

2 But, I mean, we can certainly think those kind

3 of package together (inaudible) you know, I'm just trying

4 to think of, you know, what do I need to do to make this

5 process move forward so that we can get to the end fall.

6 And if there's something that, you know, you can tell me

7 now that, "All right. Well, this would help."

8 MR. WHITWELL: So let me make sure that I

9 understand Detlef. So you said you've gone through the

10 AHRI database and you've done -- you've taken a look at

11 the gas heat units and versus the cooling units and done

12 a comparison of the IEER-graded IEER (inaudible).

13 MR. WESTPHALEN: Right. Correct.

14 MR. WHITWELL: And also the same for the heat

15 pumps; right?

16 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah, with the heat pumps.

17 With the heat pumps it's a little bit harder --

18 MR. WHITWELL: Right, it's a little bit harder.

19 MR. WESTPHALEN: A little bit harder to see.

20 MR. WHITWELL: Okay. So that -- yeah, if you've

21 got that data, that would be helpful to look at and it

22 would save us (inaudible) to do that. I mean, it would
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1 help us to see what it looks likes across the whole AHRI

2 database.

3 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah. I'm not sure we have it

4 for every last unit and every last manufacturer, and

5 so -- but I guess I'll take an action item to look at

6 that and make sure it's, you know, ready to send out and

7 by the end of Friday, say, so that you have a nice long

8 weekend.

9 (Laughter.)

10 I mean, I think that's -- you know, that would

11 be a reasonable goal so that you could start thinking

12 about that aspect.

13 And you mentioned the split systems, you know,

14 it has always been our understanding that if we do an

15 analysis for single package, that that would be

16 sufficiently representative of the economics.

17 MS. HOOTMAN: In a -- yes, I would agree that on

18 the economics, it probably is. I just wanted a caution

19 that it's probably what we have to put words around what

20 data we're going to give you in shipments and what it

21 does include, what it doesn't include.

22 So that's more what I was just trying to make
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1 sure we, you know, explain and don't explain because it

2 doesn't have anything to do with economizers. So how we

3 derived economizer shipments, it didn't have anything to

4 do with it. It doesn't have anything to do with CV/VAV

5 splits because they're all -- I don't mean splits in that

6 sense -- but the percentage splits, you know, they're all

7 counts of volume.

8 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah, I just wanted to be sure

9 that you're not suggesting that what we really need to go

10 back and do a whole analysis.

11 MS. HOOTMAN: No, that was not what I meant.

12 MR. WESTPHALEN: Okay.

13 MS. HOOTMAN: The cost of the package unit is at

14 least that expensive.

15 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah. Okay.

16 MS. HOOTMAN: Split system could be less,

17 technically.

18 MR. WESTPHALEN: All right.

19 So that covers the split equipment, covers the

20 differentials, and IEER. Maybe the more tricky one --

21 MS. HOOTMAN: But the one thing you might need

22 to remind us of is what did you -- the package heat
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1 pumps. Okay? What are you -- what's the cost difference

2 between one differential and all these costs? So --

3 MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, we haven't been looking

4 specifically at heat pumps, you know, from the

5 perspective of the cost differentials.

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Okay.

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: And, you know, the approach has

8 been that if we select the right differential there that

9 that would be an appropriate way, too (inaudible).

10 MS. HOOTMAN: So if the building stock has 10

11 percent, let's say, heat pumps and they're more

12 expensive. To me, we should be looking at 10 percent of

13 the stock being more expensive.

14 MR. WESTPHALEN: And that the differential cost,

15 even though you're not going quite as high in efficiency,

16 would then make the economics look different.

17 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah. What would they do to them?

18 Since you're also probably giving the benefit on the

19 heating side as well more efficient for the heating side,

20 more efficient then, I guess, on the heating side.

21 MR. WESTPHALEN: You don't have to go quite as

22 high in IEER, so maybe the challenges that you have with
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1 heat pumps are mitigated by that (inaudible) then you may

2 have higher cost differential because heat pump cost more

3 and you're making less of them and they -- you know,

4 economics of scale don't play out as well. But then --

5 MS. HOOTMAN: It's more coil surface, that's why

6 they're expensive.

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah, but then you're saving

8 more potentially, so --

9 MS. HOOTMAN: In energy savings you could.

10 MR. WESTPHALEN: Exactly, that's what I'm

11 saying. So in a perfect world, we would have thoroughly

12 analyzed those as well.

13 MS. HOOTMAN: But you say there probably is a

14 wash in this?

15 MR. WESTPHALEN: I mean, that has been the

16 approach that we've taken and John mentioned that, you

17 know, when we initially were comparing to the NOPR, it

18 was the (inaudible) saying NOPR by the end of the year.

19 So it was a time crunch then; it's a time crunch now.

20 MS. HOOTMAN: So I guess in the future, we need

21 to make sure that that's analyzed.

22 MR. SACHS: Yeah. Joe, this is Harvey. And I
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1 may be missing something, so that we're saying that the

2 heat pump is being the more expensive item, there's air

3 conditioning performance is less good than the comparable

4 resistance or (inaudible) but on the other hand, it's

5 cost per function --

6 MS. HOOTMAN: It's getting heating better

7 performance than your gas or you're (speaking under

8 breath).

9 MR. SACHS: So we have to give a portion, a part

10 of that implemental cost to this heating function. So I

11 think that's where the question is: Does this come out

12 as a wash?

13 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, but that -- since I didn't

14 analyze it and we don't know, I think we're just going by

15 what we think our educated guesses were going to go.

16 MR. SACHS: I just want to make sure that if

17 we're looking at the penalties, we're also looking at the

18 benefits.

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

20 MR. SACHS: And I'm sure you do, too.

21 MS. HOOTMAN: Uh-huh.

22 MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, that gets us into the
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1 discussion of COP, which certainly has been a topic of

2 comments that --

3 MS. HOOTMAN: The IEER is the COP?

4 MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, if you look at the

5 correlation of COP to EER, that's not any good, either.

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah. Agreed.

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: And so in the NOPR, the

8 efficiency levels established had a very modest COP

9 increase as the IEER increased.

10 If you do a correlation, the R-squared value for

11 that is not very good. You know, there's the discussion

12 of looking at the benefits on the heating side. Well,

13 if -- if we don't consider increasing COP, there will be

14 no benefits.

15 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. And it seems to me

16 that even more speculative is that we've had a fair

17 amount of discussion about the shift to IEER means that

18 in the time frame when this rule becomes effective, we'll

19 already be seeing redesigns for IEER optimization, rather

20 than EER optimization.

21 So the question is -- arises to me as an

22 outsider: What are the signals that make sense in terms
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1 of getting good heating performance out of that redesign

2 cycle rather than looking just at today's products?

3 I don't have an answer, but I sure would like to

4 frame it that way so we don't have sudden surprises when

5 everybody says, "Gee, we left a lot of stuff on the table

6 with COP at the last round. What should we do now, even

7 though everybody will have to redesign" --

8 MR. WHITWELL: So when we think about it, the

9 things that we would do -- Bob Whitwell from Carrier --

10 to increase IEER its compressor staging and fan staging,

11 which, unfortunately, don't do anything for heat pump

12 efficiency. So for heat pump efficiency, you know, what

13 do you do?

14 Basically, I guess, you would look at making the

15 evaporator coil bigger, which is not necessarily the way

16 to help to get better IEER.

17 MR. SACHS: And remind me, please -- this is

18 Harvey of the --

19 MR. WHITWELL: I said evaporating. I mean

20 indoor coil.

21 MR. SACHS: Yeah, the ratio of heat pump to gas

22 pack?
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1 MR. WHITWELL: It's probably -- heat pump to gas

2 pack, probably 20 percent.

3 MR. SACHS: So that I've apportioned mine

4 (simultaneous speaking).

5 MR. WHITWELL: And that's -- it's all at the

6 smaller --

7 MS. HOOTMAN: It's all at the smaller.

8 MR. WHITWELL: The small and the large, and the

9 very large, there's --

10 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, since I'm the only one here.

11 MR. WHITWELL: So one.

12 MS. HOOTMAN: One.

13 MR. WHITWELL: One unit.

14 MS. HOOTMAN: One unit is in the very large.

15 MR. SACHS: And you're going to fix that?

16 MS. HOOTMAN: Maybe, maybe not. I don't know.

17 I mean, that cabinet's pretty frickin' long. I don't

18 know what's going to happen as the week goes on.

19 MR. WESTPHALEN: All you have to do is going

20 from 240 to 239; right?

21 MS. HOOTMAN: It is a lower level up there.

22 FEMALE SPEAKER: Have we answered Detlef's
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1 questions?

2 MALE SPEAKER: No.

3 MS. HOOTMAN: No.

4 MR. SACHS: We did not answer Detlef's

5 questions, but we've scaled its importance.

6 If the heat pump is much less frequent than the

7 gas pack, then we have less -- I personally have less

8 interest in having COP drive design decisions for

9 something that's such a relatively small fraction of the

10 energy used in the machine --

11 MR. WHITWELL: Sorry, Harvey. I didn't mean

12 to interrupt you.

13 MR. SACHS: No, not at all.

14 MR. WHITWELL: So I mean, the other thing to

15 think about is, if we look at a heat pump unit, it's

16 still going to be running most of its time in the

17 (inaudible) just because of the way commercial buildings

18 run.

19 MALE SPEAKER: Possible exceptions are smaller

20 units in the northern quadrants.

21 MALE SPEAKER: But, I mean, if you look at it

22 overall, it's -- you're going to be running a lot more
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1 hours in cooling than you are in heating.

2 And then the heating is only going to be

3 (coughing) gets to a certain point and if it's a really

4 cold place, they probably have -- they're probably using

5 gas (simultaneous speaking).

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Package heat pump or a split heat

7 pump?

8 MR. SACHS: Case in being the heat pump in

9 Minnesota.

10 MALE SPEAKER: Correct.

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: I would have guessed the

12 opposite, that it would be somewhere in the more

13 temperate climate?

14 MS. HOOTMAN: Well, you could get it in the

15 north, but you could get it in Portland, Washington,

16 because they don't have those low --

17 MR. CYMBALSKY: I think -- I guess when I think

18 north versus south, those guys are more temperate than --

19 I always think mid-Atlantic above.

20 MR. WESTPHALEN: But maybe we should ask Greg if

21 Greg knows from the NOPR analysis, say, how much of the

22 savings calculated at different levels were associated
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1 with COP increase with the heat pumps.

2 MR. ROSENQUIST: Well, very little. All right?

3 I mean, we used correlations from that most recent AHRI

4 database at that time.

5 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, for you are two thousand --

6 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah, and there's no change in

7 COP with IEER, not -- so there no savings at all from the

8 heating side.

9 On the small class, the 7.5-ton, you know, from

10 the baseline to the max tech it went from 3.3 to 3.7.

11 And so, you know, you've got on average around 300

12 kilowatt hours a year or per unit. So again, it's

13 dominated by the cooling side.

14 So if we go with a similar approach for what we

15 used on the proposed rule, I'm expecting that we'll get

16 similar results.

17 MALE SPEAKER: So -- so --

18 MS. HOOTMAN: In the outlook period, though, I

19 will say that there's going to be some switching of types

20 in California because of low nox level that they're going

21 to go to. It's going to be hard to make designs at those

22 low nox levels, so we're going to be forced into heat
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1 pumps, I think.

2 And we're not -- again, we're likely not going

3 to make every design we have in those low nox levels, so

4 maybe one of those or they start to pick things. But

5 right now, those low nox levels are only down there at

6 the 5-tonnish range and below; right? 175,000 BTUs and

7 something of heating and whatever. I mean, we're only

8 talking about going in the commercial arena.

9 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, they've started that

10 effort.

11 MS. HOOTMAN: I'm only speculating where that

12 would go.

13 MR. WINNINGHAM: But in the time frame that

14 we're talking about (inaudible) it's likely that that

15 will happen?

16 FEMALE SPEAKER: The commercial sides, yes.

17 They're definitely talking commercial regulation here,

18 because I go to that 14 anagram. And I don't want to go

19 and change each design.

20 MR. WESTPHALEN: One would hope that would be a

21 second order effect that I'm sure Katie isn't interested

22 in trying to integrate that (inaudible).
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1 (Laughter.)

2 MR. ROSENQUIST: Unless you have a cross press

3 elasticity; right?

4 MS. HOOTMAN: Well, I think 40 is a large

5 market. So just by its nature, it's a big market. So

6 biggest air conditioning market.

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: Understood. I imagine it is in

8 effect there, but is it -- you know, recommending that we

9 consider that?

10 MS. HOOTMAN: I don't know what it would do to

11 what he was saying on the energy usage stuff. If all of

12 a sudden those were all gas electrics in California, and

13 they all switched to heat pumps, would that change? I

14 don't know.

15 MR. WESTPHALEN: I mean, ultimately the question

16 on COP is, number 1: Should we consider increases in the

17 COP? And then, number 2: If we do, how will we, you

18 know, work through --

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

20 MR. WESTPHALEN: -- figuring that out? Do an

21 analysis? Do it based on a negotiation?

22 MS. HOOTMAN: Right.
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1 MR. WHITWELL: I mean, just thinking about it

2 quickly here, and I haven't -- I mean, there's

3 certainly -- I'm not -- I don't have designs for this.

4 But Greg, you said at the higher EL levels you're

5 thinking there was an analysis that included heat pumps

6 going from 3.3 to 3.7 COP?

7 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah, for the seven-and-a-half

8 ton plus.

9 MR. WHITWELL: So I mean, I'm thinking that when

10 that -- if that were to happen, will the designs between

11 a cooling unit and a heat pump unit are going to

12 diverge --

13 MS. HOOTMAN: Diverge.

14 MR. WHITWELL: So today while a heat pump is

15 very similar to a cooling unit, some changes.

16 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

17 MR. WHITWELL: But as you start looking at that

18 where you're designing a unit to optimize IEER, and then

19 another one that's going to have to hit a higher COP,

20 then those designs are going to be far wider apart today

21 than -- in the future than what they are today.

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: So how far in the future is this
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1 nox thing you're talking about?

2 MS. HOOTMAN: Well, the nox for the 5-ton and

3 lower is right now.

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. But the ones that you're

5 saying --

6 MR. WHITWELL: Well, it's October 2016. And

7 they've already started working on -- they've started

8 looking at a road map to move that -- the commercial

9 equipment to that same 17 --

10 MS. HOOTMAN: They don't give you a lot of a

11 great timing on this. They're not into a process rule

12 and regulatory scheme.

13 MR. WHITWELL: They've started -- they're

14 saying -- their assumptions --

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: You say we're doing things good

16 here?

17 (Laughter.)

18 MS. HOOTMAN: Don't get too excited. There was

19 a rule that you didn't follow.

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Everything's relative, trust me.

21 Everything's relative.

22 MR. WHITWELL: Their assumption is that the same
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1 technology can be used for commercial equipment as

2 residential. There's no residential equipment that has

3 the technology to do that today.

4 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

5 MR. WHITWELL: And that's the issue because --

6 MR. CYMBALSKY: The only reason that I bring

7 that up is because, you know, we're here today on this

8 one; and six years later, there will be another one. And

9 I'm saying, well, is it the next one where we worry

10 about --

11 MR. WHITWELL: We may already be there. I don't

12 know.

13 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't know either, that's why

14 I asked the question.

15 MS. HOOTMAN: That's why I said there's no

16 loosey-goosey -- they have this -- they're very --

17 MR. THARP: And within two years they could say,

18 "Oh, we want it next year."

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah --

20 MR. WHITWELL: It's not like DOE where you have

21 three years --

22 MALE SPEAKER: Minimum time frame (simultaneous
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1 speaking) it could be any time.

2 MS. HOOTMAN: (Simultaneous speaking) so air

3 quality boards in each one of the areas: The Bay Area --

4 yeah, those guys.

5 MALE SPEAKER: It's true about EPA requirements

6 for --

7 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah, they're container --

8 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, I was just trying to ask a

9 question to see --

10 MR. WINNINGHAM: Probably a three-ish, yeah.

11 MS. HOOTMAN: It could very well be in this

12 contract.

13 MR. CYMBALSKY: I mean, I don't know how to

14 resolve the issue.

15 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, I don't know that there's

16 anything we can do.

17 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't know if there's a

18 resolution here. I mean, we can identify the issue, but

19 I don't see how to resolve it, frankly.

20 MS. HOOTMAN: No, I don't, either. I'm just

21 kind of saying that that looms out there and we might

22 have switching. But I don't know how to tell you when
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1 that switching will happen. I don't know.

2 MR. HUNT: This is Marshall Hunt --

3 FEMALE SPEAKER: Did we answer Detlef's

4 question?

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: We're getting closer.

6 MR. HUNT: Marshall Hunt from PG&E. So if I'm

7 concerned about peak demand and I can't get my second

8 variable, the EER, at least with the heat pumps I can

9 have a higher COP and have a better compressor size at B.

10 MS. HOOTMAN: You could, Marshall. But just as

11 he just described, they start diverging. It's a low

12 volume product, we're going to go out of the marketplace.

13 I mean, I'm not saying that that's going to be

14 those kind of economic decisions when I have to put

15 product development dollars into something and push comes

16 to shove, those are going to start to go -- oh, maybe I

17 won't put -- so do you want to get rid of a class?

18 MALE SPEAKER: Not if we need the nox solution

19 in this south coast basis.

20 MR. WINNINGHAM: And again, this is Dave from

21 Allied. Marshall, you know, COP was at 47, heat pumps --

22 you're probably not going to see a peak collectible
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1 demand in those conditions.

2 MR. HUNT: Well, I was thinking that that heat

3 pump is going to optimize the refrigeration size.

4 MR. WINNINGHAM: Optimizes differently in

5 heating than in cooling.

6 MR. HUNT: And so maybe it would get me a better

7 EER in cooling.

8 MS. HOOTMAN: It's not.

9 MALE SPEAKER: Well, the correlation

10 (simultaneous speaking).

11 MR. HUNT: But I'll consider that. Thank you.

12 MR. WESTPHALEN: So I guess, you know, from the

13 perspective of what the contractors need to do to support

14 the process, I'm not hearing much in terms of what -- I

15 mean -- you know, certainly putting on my engineer's hat,

16 you know, I would be very interested in thinking deeply

17 into, you know, the differences in how you make the heat

18 pump better versus the analytical -- put on my analytical

19 hat to say. Okay.

20 Well, you know, does it make sense if we split

21 the products? Where does this go? Where does that go?

22 What's cost effective for a heat pump? But we don't have
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1 any of that time.

2 MS. HOOTMAN: I agree.

3 MR. WHITWELL: So should we do a sensitivity --

4 sorry, go ahead.

5 MR. deLASKI: What I was going to say is, yeah

6 that's what you should do, right? If we had a lot of

7 time.

8 So when do you have a lot of time is when the

9 next time when we go back to this rule, whenever that is,

10 we would want maybe to include that in the terms sheet.

11 MS. HOOTMAN: Sure. Yeah.

12 MR. deLASKI: Maybe the next time there should

13 be a full analysis of the heat pump given what we -- I'm

14 hearing here that we expect the market to grow. And

15 maybe only 10 percent of square footage today these

16 last -- I don't know what the square footage of the heat

17 pumps compared to you know -- but it may grow; right?

18 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it can't be more than 10.

19 MR. deLASKI: So operating hours about 10

20 percent of the total operating hours of the equipment of

21 this is our number. So we're saying our property point.

22 Okay.
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1 So we chose not by a virtue of time and virtue

2 of a relative size, we can't focus on that this time.

3 Let's do it next time because we think it's going to grow

4 because of the California recs, because of the safe

5 decarbonization of the building stock.

6 MR. WESTPHALEN: So has it become a

7 negotiated --

8 MR. deLASKI: So the other question I would

9 ask -- what's that?

10 MR. WESTPHALEN: So I guess -- I think what

11 you're leading to is --

12 MS. HOOTMAN: Negotiate.

13 MR. deLASKI: What the (inaudible) should be.

14 And what I would ask the manufacturers, the point that

15 Harvey's making is to the extent that you guys are

16 looking for -- you want to redesign -- what I heard

17 earlier was you want to redesign once, you want to know

18 the road map.

19 So the extent that you want a road map on COP,

20 you know, we're looking to you guys for, you know, how do

21 we come up with numbers that would give you time, you

22 know, so that, you know, maybe you'll -- what makes sense
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1 to you looking at your desire for a road map?

2 And because the data doesn't give us -- you're

3 telling us that the data doesn't give us any correlation,

4 we can't just look at the sales and say, "Well, if IEER

5 doesn't do it," you're saying that engineering doesn't

6 support doing correlation, so --

7 MR. WHITWELL: Right, not with IEER.

8 MR. deLASKI: So lacking analysis, I don't have

9 anything; right? I don't have correlation. I don't have

10 engineering and analysis.

11 MR. WHITWELL: Would it be worth doing a

12 sensitivity to say whatever the keep on -- the COP were

13 to stay the same, you know, what's the difference in

14 energy?

15 MR. ROSENQUIST: Again, we analyzed heat pumps

16 in the shipments in IA, right, by making assumptions

17 about what the relationship is between the IEER for AC

18 versus heat pump, right. And so we can -- and then we

19 calculated that roughly speaking at nine-and-a-half

20 percent of total shipments are heat pumps.

21 So from there, we can get cooling side energy

22 savings through the heat pumps and add that into a
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1 national area savings total. So in the proposed rule we

2 did that; right? And what I just told you before is that

3 very, very little of that national area savings came from

4 the heating side.

5 MR. WHITWELL: Heating side, right. That's what

6 I recall.

7 MR. ROSENQUIST: And basically, it was a case

8 where we didn't have any savings (speaking under breath).

9 MR. WHITWELL: With an increase in IEER.

10 MR. ROSENQUIST: With an increase in IEER, so --

11 MR. WHITWELL: Well, you had an increase in COP

12 there.

13 MR. ROSENQUIST: I mean, we had the IEER

14 covered, but the COP only --

15 MR. WHITWELL: (Simultaneous speaking) so we can

16 play with a COP, but there's not going to be a big

17 benefit.

18 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah, it didn't contribute

19 hardly anything to the national energy savings

20 (inaudible).

21 MR. deLASKI: And how did you come up with the

22 COP increases?
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1 MR. ROSENQUIST: Again, we're using the AHRI

2 database and just plotting (simultaneous speaking) a

3 poorly correlated way, but --

4 MR. deLASKI: But that was only in the small

5 tonnage; right? In the medium and large there was no

6 correlation. So you had no savings --

7 MR. ROSENQUIST: No savings whatsoever.

8 MR. deLASKI: So in the small units, you've

9 got correlation so we could look at that correlation and

10 we can decide if that makes sense to adopt that as the

11 level?

12 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, but the correlation doesn't

13 make sense; right?

14 MR. deLASKI: Okay. I get it.

15 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah, I don't have the

16 correlation coefficient here, but --

17 MR. WHITWELL: But you did do an independent

18 correlation, you're saying, at a higher COP levels and

19 the savings was minimal?

20 MR. ROSENQUIST: Yeah. So at the level that was

21 proposed, it was -- yeah, it was less than -- well, it

22 was around 100 kilowatt hours per year, per unit, right,
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1 so I don't know what that translates to in terms of

2 quads.

3 MR. SACHS: But with five heat pumps, you can

4 save about as much energy as a very efficient

5 refrigerator uses in a year.

6 MR. CYMBALSKY: That's a standard number, not an

7 official --

8 MR. SACHS: Yeah. So we really are talking

9 about something in this context that's pretty small given

10 the small fraction.

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah. I mean, I would suggest

12 we keep -- I mean, we've got a lot of other things that I

13 think are bigger. And then at the end, when we're

14 negotiating with the COP out on the table and whatever

15 the group comes up with.

16 Are we good with that, Marshall?

17 MR. SACHS: So there's one other reason --

18 MR. CYMBALSKY: Because I don't think the

19 numbers are going to actually give us a path.

20 MR. deLASKI: A number, right, we've got to hear

21 from you guys because I'm not going to have a number.

22 MR. SACHS: Another -- this is Harvey. And I'd
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1 suggest there's one other reason for leaving that right

2 now, and it ties to some of Marshall's interests, and it

3 ties into Andrew's proposal of putting this in the term

4 sheet for work for the next round. Because between now

5 and then, there's opportunity for utilities that have a

6 substantial interest in making that fuel switch or in --

7 or in other -- other things to explore the market

8 opportunities to their incentives. So it gives us an

9 additional potential data stream if there's real interest

10 in this that would support the next round of work.

11 So for that reason, also, I'm -- I'm pretty

12 comfortable with letting that dog lie.

13 MR. HUNT: This is Marshall Hunt with California

14 PG&E, and I just made a note to myself to bring this up

15 to our state-wide group, get ahead of it.

16 That sounds really good, Harvey.

17 MR. CYMBALSKY: Does anyone disagree with this

18 path we've laid out?

19 MS. HOOTMAN: Thumbs up?

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: That's great.

21 MR. SACHS: Hey, Ted, you're looking at thumbs.

22 MR. WESTPHALEN: I guess, just reiterating what
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1 I heard on the IEER differentials, I'll distribute some

2 information and then everybody will think about it and

3 discuss what the differentials are, and then perhaps will

4 be a negotiation topic rather than an additional analysis

5 other than what I'll send. And then on the COP, that

6 will just be a negotiation topic as well.

7 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. Great.

8 The other issue, again, we talked about the dual

9 duct units earlier. And I know AHRI hasn't had a chance

10 to put together a proposed definition of what these would

11 be.

12 But -- I mean, I'd hate to put you on the spot,

13 Bob, but you're the only other guy who kind of has these

14 things. Could you propose a definition of -- I mean, if

15 we wanted to propose to exclude these from this current

16 rulemaking and carve it out, what would be a locked-box

17 definition?

18 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah. Okay. I'll come back next

19 time and then --

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. Great.

21 MR. SACHS: On a cleaner capacity.

22 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, I mean, right now it's a
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1 very -- at least from my perspective -- ours is -- goes

2 to like 8 tons (speaking under breath).

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. And we'll look at -- look

4 at what we know, as well.

5 MR. WHITWELL: I think we're talking about two

6 models, you know.

7 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. Okay. So that's that.

8 And then the other things we still had to do

9 were, I think, the curve.

10 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah. So for curve adapters,

11 the first question is really, you know, I went through

12 description of how we could introduce a distribution,

13 different levels of use of adapter curves or curve

14 adapters at the different levels considered. Should we

15 introduce that, you know, throughout the downstream

16 analysis?

17 MS. COUGHLIN: So for -- to make this into

18 something that can be practically completed by next week,

19 what we would is for each of our -- for each row in our

20 analyses sample, it would be an average of with the curve

21 and without the curve.

22 So it would average the energy use and the costs
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1 and that weighting of the with and without curves would

2 change with EL according to the distribution that Detlef

3 developed. So this approach is going to give you the

4 correct average LCC results, which is what most people

5 focus on, and it will give you -- us the correct average

6 numbers which get exported into the shipments in the NIA

7 and the MIA.

8 It will not give us the correct distribution of

9 net cost, net benefit because we're -- in reality,

10 nobody's a hybrid of a curving and no curve; they're one

11 way or the other. However, I think if we make this

12 compromise, we can actually do this reliably for the next

13 round.

14 And I'm not -- I don't think having -- the

15 alternative would be to try to restructure the LCC

16 spreadsheet, which creates a lots of potential for bugs

17 that we won't be able to find by the next two days. I

18 mean, we will, over the longer term, implement it fully.

19 But to move forward next week, I think if we just do the

20 averaging we'll -- like I said, we'll get reliable

21 results. The average LCC in downstream analyses. So

22 that's the proposal on the downstream conversion curve.
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1 MR. SACHS: This is Harvey. And that certainly

2 sounds reasonable. And you're in -- Katie, but I'm not

3 quite as sure how certain we'll be of Detlef's

4 contribution on the -- on the curves, and I wondered if

5 you could explain a little bit more. What are you

6 providing to Katie?

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: What I would be providing is,

8 you know, we have the distribution.

9 MALE SPEAKER: Do you remember which slide --

10 MS. HOOTMAN: 30.

11 MR. deLASKI: 31. So this was your presentation

12 yesterday; right?

13 MS. HOOTMAN: The blue bars is what we're --

14 MALE SPEAKER: You'll look at page 30.

15 MR. deLASKI: It's 32 up there.

16 MR. WESTPHALEN: 32. This one.

17 MALE SPEAKER: Okay. Sorry.

18 MR. WESTPHALEN: So on the pressure drop side,

19 you're using a three-quarter, or a 1.25 inches if you

20 want to call them, for the air distribution. You add

21 something for the curve. Now, if you -- the curve

22 adapter -- if you don't have the adapter, what you add is
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1 zero. If you do have the adapter, you add whatever

2 number that will be part of our next discussion as to

3 what we agreed the number should be.

4 And then for all of those replacements where,

5 you know, say if you have, you know, 31 percent of

6 80 percent, you know, roughly, say, 35 percent or

7 whatever that is of the replacements having the curve

8 adapters, you would apply that percent to that pressure

9 drop. And that's -- and then we would calculate the

10 appropriate fan powers and capacity we're all trying to

11 associate it with that for that efficiency level.

12 Then, as that percentage of use of the

13 conversion curves increases, you know, that fraction of

14 the pressure drop will be increased. So as the ELs go

15 higher, the total static that they would use in their

16 analysis would increase. Likewise, the applied cost of

17 the conversion curve would be ratioed in that fashion.

18 MS. COUGHLIN: So you can think of these blue

19 bars as like a weighting between how many people have a

20 conversion curve and how many people don't.

21 So the blue bar is the fraction of people that

22 have one. So right now what we have in the analysis is
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1 essentially it's zeros up to 3, and then it jumps to 80

2 percent and stays flat. So this way, we'll wait in the

3 base-case will be 30/70 and we'll sort of move up higher

4 weightings to higher ELs, so it will sort of smooth out

5 the penalties associated with the conversion curve.

6 MR. SACHS: I like it.

7 MR. deLASKI: I mean, it reflects the data that

8 you checked with us yesterday.

9 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, and then the next topic

10 is -- inputs to that analysis.

11 MR. deLASKI: Right. But it reflects what you

12 showed us in terms of those plots.

13 MALE SPEAKER: Right.

14 MR. BANTLE: So as far as a plan, can we use the

15 Navigant model applying the averages from that Katie

16 discussed?

17 Can we take a show of hands on that? Any hands

18 down? Nope? Okay.

19 MR. CYMBALSKY: Now the harder part. What

20 numbers do we average?

21 MR. WESTPHALEN: So I guess one of the numbers

22 is what is the right pressure drop to apply.
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: Again, we've got .2 currently for

2 seven-and-a-half and 15, and we have .35 currently for

3 the 30-ton.

4 MR. WESTPHALEN: And then we have different

5 information coming from the two vendors that we

6 discussed.

7 MS. HOOTMAN: What were those numbers, again?

8 MS. COUGHLIN: .2 for the seven-and-a-half and

9 the 15, and .35 for the 30. And then the new numbers

10 are --

11 MR. WESTPHALEN: Sorry, the information from the

12 curve vendors, one curve vendor said .05 for a small, up

13 to .2 for a very large, and .1, I believe, it was for a

14 large. For the other vendor, the average number that I

15 came up with for commercial size was .26.

16 MS. HOOTMAN: But that one wasn't stair set

17 .26 --

18 MR. WESTPHALEN: I didn't try to split that. It

19 only went up to 10,000 CFM, which -- high 20s.

20 MS. HOOTMAN: Yeah.

21 MR. WHITWELL: So -- sorry, what was the first

22 one again? The first (inaudible) --
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1 MR. WESTPHALEN: .05 for small, .1 for large, .2

2 for very large.

3 MR. WHITWELL: What's "very large" for the --

4 MS. HOOTMAN: Those are for like line cabinet to

5 line cabinet.

6 MS. COUGHLIN: 30 tons?

7 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah, the 30 tons represent our

8 very large in our --

9 MS. COUGHLIN: It's on slide 24, I think -- 23,

10 24, depending on the -- one more.

11 MALE SPEAKER: Found it.

12 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah.

13 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah. I didn't put -- remember

14 the parenthesis large should be very large, then.

15 MS. HOOTMAN: So if we left it the way it is, we

16 don't have to recalculate this? You don't have to apply

17 those averages; is that correct?

18 MS. COUGHLIN: Well, I'm going to have to

19 recalculate anyway for other reasons, but -- so that's

20 not a problem.

21 MS. HOOTMAN: I'm trying to save you some --

22 MR. STARR: What would be the -- this is Louis
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1 with NEEA -- what would be the middle of the range of

2 numbers between --

3 MS. HOOTMAN: .26 --

4 MR. STARR: -- for your higher and lower and for

5 the small? It seems your seven-and-a-half and 15-ton is

6 probably going to be the same number either way. Is that

7 generally the concept, or are you -- would, perhaps, you

8 could provide an opinion on that. Would a

9 seven-and-a-half have one number? 15 have one number?

10 And a 30-ton have one number for the pressure drop across

11 the curve? Does that make sense?

12 MR. WESTPHALEN: Based on all the information

13 that I've looked at, there is not -- I would expect

14 there's not a whole lot of correlation with capacity,

15 which is something we discussed at the previous round of

16 meetings. It just happens --

17 MR. STARR: Velocity.

18 MR. WESTPHALEN: It potentially would be

19 velocity and where you step up to the larger box size and

20 have more duct area. And the Vendor A numbers may be the

21 way they do their designs, it just so happens to go that

22 way.
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1 For the Vendor B information, it was actually

2 the midrange that had the highest pressure drop. The

3 high end had fairly low, and the very low end had fairly

4 low. So I don't think there's necessarily a good

5 correlation with capacity.

6 MR. STARR: So your original number was .2, and

7 that sort of get to where we started at -- I don't know.

8 I personally would be okay with leaving that number,

9 point --

10 MALE SPEAKER: Across the board?

11 MR. STARR: What he says is based on velocity.

12 So yeah, I guess that would be across the board.

13 MR. BANTLE: So the suggestion of .2 is across

14 the board?

15 I think, Mark, did you also have information on

16 this from your informal survey?

17 MR. TERZIGNI: Yes, but probably the most

18 qualified and reliable source responded with, "No clue."

19 If you could tell me, I would love to know.

20 (Laughter.)

21 MALE SPEAKER: That response actually helps us.

22 MALE SPEAKER: Duly noted.
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1 MALE SPEAKER: Well, it's just -- it's very hard

2 to measure in a real world scenario --

3 MS. HOOTMAN: Yes, it is --

4 MALE SPEAKER: -- that's what we talked about

5 before.

6 Like if we measured it like a fitting in an

7 ideal situation, the lower number, especially if it's

8 just the -- not a portion to landscape type of deal,

9 those are possibly realistic. What that does to the

10 overall system, .2 is a reasonable -- it's reasonable, I

11 guess, is what I would say without actually taking real

12 measurements of --

13 MR. BANTLE: Any objections to the taking a vote

14 on the .2?

15 MS. HOOTMAN: Across the board?

16 MR. BANTLE: .2.

17 MS. HOOTMAN: .2 across the board?

18 MR. BANTLE: Yes. Okay.

19 So let's show a show of thumbs -- not hands --

20 on .2 across the board. The pressure drop across the --

21 is that what we have?

22 MALE SPEAKER: For seven-and-a-half and 15.
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1 MS. HOOTMAN: The conversion curve.

2 MALE SPEAKER: So we drop it down to

3 (simultaneous speaking) it means for the curve

4 (simultaneous speaking).

5 MR. STARR: Is that your original thought? Does

6 that seem like a reasonable -- a reasonable -- if you

7 were making a decision on your own basis, would you come

8 up to that?

9 MR. WESTPHALEN: Yeah. If it was me, more than

10 .2, I'd really look at replacing the curve. But, you

11 know, I mean --

12 MR. TERZIGNI: So in summation when you put a

13 conversion curve (coughing) would be a two-tenths

14 pressure drop to the system. I guess that's what the

15 question is, is that reasonable?

16 MR. BANTLE: I apologize for saying "across the

17 board." I misspoke.

18 MR. TERZIGNI: So no matter what the size is;

19 right?

20 MR. BANTLE: Yeah.

21 MR. TERZIGNI: So pressure drop is not usually a

22 function of -- it's a function of velocity for any
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1 particular fitting. So velocities are fairly --

2 MR. STARR: They design per deck board which --

3 basically sizing it for velocity. So that's why the

4 pressure dropped. It's the same across --

5 MS. HOOTMAN: So is this agreed to?

6 MR. BANTLE: Formal -- show of hands if

7 you've --

8 MS. HOOTMAN: .2.

9 MR. BANTLE: Okay.

10 MS. COUGHLIN: Anyone against it?

11 MR. BANTLE: Are there any thumbs down?

12 MALE SPEAKER: You're not both voting, are you?

13 MS. COUGHLIN: Are we voting again on this?

14 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, we had some more further

15 discussions, so I didn't (simultaneous speaking).

16 MS. HOOTMAN: We had one person stretching.

17 MR. BANTLE: Yeah, okay. I see no thumbs down.

18 MALE SPEAKER: Correct.

19 MR. BANTLE: Okay. Thank you.

20 (Off-the-record conversation.)

21 MR. McCRUDDEN: I would actually take a worst

22 case and best case, and the best case is going to be
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1 pretty rough (simultaneous speaking).

2 FEMALE SPEAKER: And we can make sure

3 (simultaneous speaking.)

4 (Off-the-record conversation.)

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: All right. Well, from the DOE

6 point of view, we don't see any more questions that we

7 need answers to. So moving forward, that doesn't mean

8 that the group doesn't have issues in their mind that

9 they --

10 MR. STARR: One comment from Louis. So this is

11 Louis with NEEA. So I had a chance to look at the

12 slides, and one of the things on the 30/10 units --

13 MR. deLASKI: Which slide are you on?

14 MR. CYMBALSKY: What slide?

15 MR. STARR: Slide 47.

16 So I went back and I looked at those fan

17 energies, and I was trying to figure out -- so EL-3 is a

18 BAV system, pretty much all 3, 4, and 5 were all BAV

19 systems.

20 So I was looking at the fan energy numbers and

21 they didn't look like they were jibbing so much. So I

22 wanted to see what number did they use for the external
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1 static pressure?

2 So if you look at the total -- at the very end,

3 that total column, those numbers I would expect to see a

4 little more difference between a constant air volume and

5 a BAV in terms of energy per unit. So one of my thoughts

6 is, I wanted to check and see what number did you use for

7 your external static pressure in the BAV? And I'm

8 assuming it's not 1.25.

9 MS. COUGHLIN: Well, the building is always the

10 same. And so -- and then I think the way the fan power

11 is calculated, that's -- I don't know --

12 MR. STARR: Okay. All right. Good enough.

13 Thanks, that's it.

14 MS. COUGHLIN: Isn't that 1.25 number? Yeah,

15 it's either .75 or 1.25.

16 MR. STARR: All right. Nevermind. That's good.

17 It's just -- what I'm seeing the function is, is

18 of the IEER, I did one of the things where you just raise

19 and drop the IEER. It didn't -- if you took 10.6 to 13.5

20 and you ratioed 62 down, what should the number be

21 instead of 51? It should have been about 46. So I was

22 thinking there was something going on there.
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1 But what it is -- it's just, the IEER is maybe

2 not doing a good job of representing the real energy use

3 or else they chose models that are not representative

4 of -- you know, so this is an issue we've covered before

5 so we don't need to go over it any more. So I'm good.

6 Thanks.

7 MR. WHITWELL: This is Bob Whitwell from

8 Carrier. So I don't know if I want to open up -- don't

9 want to open up a can of worms again or anything, but I'm

10 just a little concerned or confused about the discussion

11 yesterday about economizers, that they only -- maybe I

12 misunderstood -- but they only save 3 percent energy?

13 MALE SPEAKER: 3 to 8.

14 MR. WHITWELL: Because there are others a lot --

15 I mean, if that's the case -- pardon the pun -- but we're

16 spending -- we spend in the industry -- we spend a lot of

17 energy on economizers for what sounds like little return.

18 And I think there's a lot of other studies out there that

19 show that there's a lot bigger savings.

20 I'm not sure whether this is -- again, whether

21 this is something that really has a big impact here, but

22 it's a little troubling to me that there seems to be a
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1 disconnect between what like the ASRAC studies show and

2 the pressure that is on the industry to put economizers

3 in equipment (coughing) and parts of the country and

4 savings in that single-digit area.

5 MS. COUGHLIN: There's a couple of reasons why

6 the insensitivity really is not directly comparable to

7 that.

8 So first of all, we have in the simulations, the

9 economizers were already simulated. And the issue was

10 whether or not that simulation was really, you know,

11 correctly estimating economized performance in a

12 lower-temperature regime. So what I did is, I just took

13 out the cool loads below 60 degrees in the buildings that

14 have economizers and make them zero. And that's what

15 gives you the 6 or 9 percent, whatever.

16 So you know, whether the economizer is lowering

17 the cooling load in higher temperatures, I didn't -- I

18 didn't adjust that because when we were having the

19 discussion with Nick, he was more concerned about what

20 was going on with the lower temperatures. He thought the

21 lower temperatures were not correct.

22 MR. WHITWELL: And I think that -- sorry, sorry.
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1 MS. COUGHLIN: So I zeroed out only the lower

2 temperatures. And then this is only 30 percent of the

3 population according to CBECS, so it's down by another

4 .3. So that's how you end up with these few, you know,

5 numbers there when you order 5 to 10 percent.

6 So if I took a real building and put an

7 economizer in it, then it would be a totally different

8 number. You really can't say anything about that from

9 this analysis.

10 MR. WHITWELL: So I guess now I wonder, so if

11 there was an issue with the way it was showing hours --

12 cooling hours below a certain temperature and you took

13 those out, would there also be an issue in how it was in

14 the representation for the number of hours in cooling

15 operation above -- you know, at higher temperatures? It

16 could have been instead of a chemical cooling, it could

17 have been an economizer cooling.

18 MS. COUGHLIN: Well, again, I mean, the

19 economizers were simulated and we don't know the details

20 of how they were simulated. But in the discussion with

21 Dick Lord, he was mostly focusing on the lower

22 temperature hours, so that's what I looked at.
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1 MR. WHITWELL: Yeah, I think he was focusing

2 on -- because that's very visual; right?

3 MS. COUGHLIN: Right.

4 MR. WHITWELL: Because with an economizer, you

5 wouldn't get to have -- we came up with cooling down

6 there, and then any mechanical -- any mechanical cooling

7 in lieu of use of the economizer at the higher

8 temperature you wouldn't know. I mean --

9 MS. COUGHLIN: Right. So we don't really have

10 any -- we don't know what to do about that at this

11 meeting.

12 MR. CYMBALSKY: I thought Dick pointed out that

13 the load matched up well at the higher --

14 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah, they didn't look bad. It

15 was more at the long tail at the low end, so --

16 MR. CYMBALSKY: So that's why I think it wasn't

17 a concern to the group is because when you map those two

18 curves that he had, it was only the bottom.

19 MR. WHITWELL: Oh, okay.

20 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it was the building

21 shapes --

22 MS. WALTNER: We do know that on a national
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1 average basis, the buildings with economizers have

2 roughly 25 percent lower cooling loads than the buildings

3 without economizers, so --

4 MR. WHITWELL: All right.

5 MS. WALTNER: -- the way they are is --

6 MS. COUGHLIN: There is savings in there. That

7 was just the sensitivity of taking that; right?

8 MR. WHITWELL: All right. Thank you.

9 MS. WALTNER: The very low end, yes.

10 MS. HOOTMAN: We didn't probably --

11 MR. WHITWELL: I've had four days of this, so

12 I --

13 MS. HOOTMAN: I know. We probably didn't

14 describe it very well.

15 MR. STARR: Yeah, it 3.98 and 6 BTUs per square

16 foot, so that's the relative numbers that savings would

17 get. So it's like 25 percent.

18 MS. WALTNER: 3.98 and 5.36 (simultaneous

19 speaking).

20 MR. STARR: One-and-a-half, that's 45 percent.

21 That's interesting.

22 MR. WHITWELL: Okay. I feel better about
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1 spending the energy on economizer design.

2 MR. STARR: Well, Dick should come to the

3 meeting since he's (speaking under breath).

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. So anybody else at this

5 point?

6 MR. deLASKI: I guess one comment that I would

7 make is just in terms of thinking about our overall

8 schedule here --

9 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. That was my next point.

10 MR. deLASKI: Maybe you were -- all right.

11 Well, I won't steal your thunder.

12 MR. CYMBALSKY: No. Well, it's not my -- it's

13 our thunder. So -- it's raining out, so I'll give it to

14 you.

15 MR. deLASKI: I'm looking at the schedule here.

16 So we're meeting again 6/1 and 6/2 is a week from Monday.

17 So at that time we are going to see a new --

18 some revisions to the analyses that we've been looking

19 at, presumably that will be relatively quick because

20 we're just -- the number changes that you're making now

21 are smaller than they have been the last few times.

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. I think the slide subset
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1 shrinks considerably at this point.

2 MR. deLASKI: Right. And those changes will be

3 the ones we discuss plus the data on shipments, so it's

4 going to effect everything that we've seen. But, again,

5 the deck would be smaller and the additional plan is to

6 have additional discussions about standard levels at that

7 meeting.

8 MR. CYMBALSKY: We'll be presenting the National

9 Impact results on Monday, June 1. So you'll have those

10 numbers, energy savings and the --

11 MR. deLASKI: Okay.

12 MR. ROSENQUIST: And, I don't know, you might

13 have our preliminary MIA, but I don't want to promise

14 that. I don't want to speak for Chris.

15 MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, Chris is on the webinar.

16 But I think the goal is to get initial MIA results, and

17 if that may not cover the full spectrum of the classes,

18 but I don't want to speak for Chris.

19 MR. ROSENQUIST: So if he's not here, we can

20 just --

21 MR. STARR: So this is Louis. Is there any way

22 that we can, maybe ahead of the meeting, just get these
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1 slides 72 -- those 72, 73, and 74, basically those simple

2 played back and --

3 MR. deLASKI: Well, it would be nice. I mean, I

4 know -- I think the last time these guys were preparing

5 the slides the day before on Sunday, so --

6 MR. CYMBALSKY: Generally, I get them at 11:00

7 o'clock the night before the meeting. So --

8 MR. STARR: Can you get them to me at 12:00?

9 MR. CYMBALSKY: So I get them on the top of my

10 head and I go to sleep and I hope it all absorbs so that

11 when I wake up I have some comments.

12 MS. HOOTMAN: Are they amazing?

13 MR. CYMBALSKY: And if there's a hockey game on,

14 forget it.

15 (Laughter.)

16 No, but seriously, we will try our best but we

17 don't have a lot of time. It's a holiday weekend coming

18 up, and nobody's going to be working --

19 MALE SPEAKER: You've got on extra workday.

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: So nobody's going to be working.

21 They're going to be eating. But we'll try, but I

22 think --
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1 MR. deLASKI: The benefit of this is we've been

2 around this now a few iterations, so we --

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: And things are converging. Like

4 you're saying that the change now aren't going like

5 this -- you know, we're not kind of just --

6 MR. deLASKI: Right. And we're meeting at the

7 L'Enfant -- at the normal building?

8 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, and then I think -- so an

9 update yesterday, we -- you know, we personally turned

10 the screw a little bit on the four questions.

11 MS. COUGHLIN: Yeah?

12 MR. CYMBALSKY: And so we're very hopeful we'll

13 have them next proceeding.

14 MS. COUGHLIN: Okay.

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: I can't promise, but -- you

16 know, we -- we did our best to kind of say, "This is very

17 important. We need them."

18 MR. SACHS: If you get them early, can you send

19 them out?

20 MS. HOOTMAN: It will possibly --

21 MALE SPEAKER: There's going to be nothing in

22 writing, I can tell you (simultaneous speaking).
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1 MR. deLASKI: I think we probably need to be

2 sure we have -- the next meeting we have caucus space.

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: We agree. And so --

4 MR. deLASKI: We're going to need time to be

5 able to --

6 MR. CYMBALSKY: I just want to say we're putting

7 our best foot in our effort to get those answers.

8 MR. deLASKI: Okay.

9 MS. HOFFMAN: And the times would be 9:45 and

10 then 8:00 to 3:00 again; right?

11 MR. deLASKI: I'm not sure that he heard that.

12 MS. HOOTMAN: I don't know that he heard that,

13 either, that we have caucus space June 1st and 2nd. You

14 know, we have space that we could go --

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: Like the hallway?

16 MS. HOOTMAN: No, not the hallway.

17 MR. deLASKI: I'm not sure if that's a --

18 MS. HOOTMAN: There's another room.

19 MR. CYMBALSKY: Well, there's the back room;

20 right?

21 MS. HOOTMAN: Right.

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: And then there's the courtyard
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1 by Dunkin' Donuts. If it's not raining, we can go

2 outside.

3 MR. deLASKI: Okay.

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: Room space is -- let me tell

5 you -- it's not easy to get.

6 So -- so at this point, unless we can keep going

7 or we can call it a day. I mean, I've got nothing else.

8 MS. WALTNER: Would it be helpful to caucus

9 today over an early lunch and come back? Or is there --

10 just to make sure there's no other --

11 MR. CYMBALSKY: We can do that.

12 MS. WALTNER: I'm not sure. I don't know if we

13 can --

14 MR. deLASKI: I don't have anything to come back

15 on, personally.

16 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, we're done with those

17 numbers and I think we talked about looking for (speaking

18 under breath).

19 MS. HOOTMAN: We could.

20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Could take a four-hour lunch and

21 catch your flight or --

22 MALE SPEAKER: Go to the Smithsonian.
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1 MS. WALTNER: It's really nice outside. I just

2 walked up the street, aka pouring rain.

3 MR. CYMBALSKY: Oh, it's raining?

4 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it's pouring.

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: Oh, that's not good.

6 Louis, you brought this weather with you; didn't

7 you?

8 MR. STARR: It doesn't rain so hard. It rains

9 lightly, you don't even need an umbrella.

10 MS. HOOTMAN: You don't have a lot of hair to

11 worry about. Okay?

12 (Laughter.)

13 MR. STARR: I got soaked here. I was totally --

14 it rained -- it was like I stood in the shower.

15 MR. CYMBALSKY: I think we're done.

16 MS. HOOTMAN: So I guess we're done.

17 MR. BANTLE: Any final comments from the working

18 group?

19 MR. SACHS: Thank you.

20 MR. deLASKI: I guess what I would just say,

21 Bob, which is that we --

22 MR. SACHS: Real quiet.
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1 MR. deLASKI: Guys, we as a -- my only thought

2 is that we should -- we, as the caucus that I work with,

3 will certainly be meeting in between this next meeting

4 and we'll be thinking about levels and I hope that others

5 do, as well.

6 MS. HOOTMAN: Oh, yes, we will be meeting.

7 MR. CYMBALSKY: And, again, I know we haven't

8 answered those four questions, but I know I said

9 yesterday that -- I mean, don't let that be a barrier to

10 what Andrew just talked about. I think you -- you

11 know --

12 MR. deLASKI: Part of life, right. I want to

13 describe my historical experience that I want -- and I

14 hope people will think about that kind of responsibility.

15 Okay?

16 MR. BANTLE: Okay. I think Jeremiah has

17 attendance sheets.

18 And anybody from the public on the line,

19 Jeremiah, that we will offer time for public comment?

20 MALE SPEAKER: No.

21 MR. BANTLE: Okay. No? Nobody's left? Okay.

22 We'll see you all, not next week, but June 1st
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1 and June 2nd. That's a Monday and Tuesday.

2 MALE SPEAKER: Is that back at the --

3 MR. BANTLE: It will be back at the main

4 building, 8th floor, as always.

5 (Off-the-record conversation.)

6 (End of audio.)

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22
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153 

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

2 

3 I, Kylie S. Shepherd, Certified Shorthand 

4 Reporter, CERTIFY I was authorized to transcribe the 

5 proceedings, and the foregoing transcript is a true and 

6 accurate record. 

7 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, 

8 employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor 

9 am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' 

10 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I 

11 financially interested in the action. 

12 Dated this 25th day of May, 2015. 

13 

14 

15 

1 6 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

202-220-415 8 

Kylie S. Shepherd 

Henderson Legal Services, Inc. 

www.hendersonlegalservices.com 
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A

abandoned

39:1,4,22

40:1 58:7

able 11:19

56:9 57:13

77:11,16

126:17 148:5

above 60:14

60:20 61:4

95:20 107:19

141:15

absolute 64:5

absolutely

53:6

absorbs

146:10

AC 87:20

119:17

acceptable

7:15

accommodate

11:19

according

7:15 126:2

141:3

account 55:4,6

80:5

accounting

14:16

accurate 35:15

42:16 153:6

ACEEE4:21

across 16:14

17:10 20:22

23:15 27:15

42:18 98:1

132:10

133:10,12,13

134:15,17,20

134:20

135:16 136:4

action 98:5

153:10,11

actual 14:11

23:21 30:9

38:10 42:8

85:17

actually 5:12

7:9 9:7,12

11:9,12

17:12,16

18:10 20:10

20:16 22:16

26:2,13

30:13 31:10

36:8 37:16

53:16 62:1

63:15 77:13

89:10 94:13

122:19

126:12 133:1

133:21

134:11

136:21

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adapter

125:13

127:22,22

128:1

adapters

125:10,14

128:8

add 16:16,19

19:19 28:4

32:6,8 33:5

34:17,21

119:22

127:20,22

128:1

added 26:5

additional

10:3,14 73:4

123:9 124:4

145:5,6

address 82:16

addressed

68:1

adjust 140:18

adjusted 86:7

adopt 121:10

advise 81:6

affect 37:4

92:4

affected 16:3

affecting

59:18

after 8:18 67:4

77:4,10

again 8:11,16

10:8 17:14

23:3 24:9

25:7,15

26:18 29:3

31:6 36:1,16

37:16,19

39:5 41:17

42:1,14

43:19 45:14

45:14 59:15

60:12,21

66:2 72:19

74:8 88:22

91:2 94:20

108:12 109:2

115:20

119:15 121:1

124:8 130:1

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136:13 139:9

139:20

141:18

144:16 145:4

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against 88:4

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age 16:14,16

16:17 17:9

17:20,22

18:3,4 20:12

23:15 26:9

ages 17:10

18:7 23:16

ago 30:1

agree 11:7

41:5 42:6

47:13,20

70:7 78:14

92:3 98:17

117:2 148:3

agreed 103:6

128:3 136:5

ahead 117:4

123:15

145:22

AHRI 12:19

26:6 35:3,15

96:17 97:10

98:1 108:3

121:1 124:9

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11:4,5,6,21

12:2,4,6,7,8

12:13 18:22

29:22 30:2

30:19 49:6

49:16 50:4

69:16 82:7

83:3,18

84:16 94:15

102:2 110:6

114:2 127:20

138:4

air-cooled

70:3,3,4

airflow 9:1,2

9:16 10:13

95:3

airflows 11:6

aka 150:2

Alison 3:10

all 5:20 6:8

7:12,19,19

12:17 19:10

25:3,15 27:3

30:10 31:6

42:5,18,21

43:3 44:5

49:3 50:1,18

57:8 63:10

64:10 66:3

70:12 72:16

72:22 73:1

74:21 75:8

75:10 77:4,5

79:21 83:11

83:12,12,20

84:20 88:14

92:6 97:7

99:5,6,18

100:2 105:5

105:7,19

106:13 108:2

108:7 110:11

110:12,13

128:4,10

132:12 137:5

137:18,18

138:12,16

140:8 143:4

143:8 144:10

146:10

151:22

Allied 4:15

115:21

allowed 77:3

allows 30:8

almost 57:1,2

64:14 83:20

93:1,2

already 43:3

71:8 91:14

103:19 112:7

113:11 140:9

also 14:3

28:13 29:1

48:8 51:1

53:7,22 54:3

54:4 56:12
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58:8 68:21

69:11 76:1

78:1 82:18

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55:4 57:11

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93:1,2 98:14

107:19 138:9

152:4

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153:9,10

amazing

146:12

amount 18:7

38:15 42:19

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103:17

anagram

109:18

analyses

125:20

126:21

144:18

analysis 6:17

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23:10 26:10

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110:21 111:5

117:13 119:8

119:10 124:4

125:16

128:16,22

129:10 141:9

analytical

116:18,18

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102:14

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101:12,21

119:15

Andrew 2:8

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50:2 59:15

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another 7:1

29:19 48:13

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90:15 111:19

113:8 122:22

141:3 148:18

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54:17 56:19

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104:3 106:4

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105:22 151:8

answers 62:20

78:18 137:7

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anymore 67:22

73:18 79:19

anyone 70:16

89:13 123:17

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114:16 119:9

120:19 139:9

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65:11 135:16

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12:20

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128:8 129:22

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applying 43:22

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105:3

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100:7 101:16

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22:21

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57:19 58:11

114:3 120:1

120:3 132:20

140:4

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aren't 147:4

arena 109:8

argument 61:6

arises 103:21

arithmetic

25:15

arm 75:12

around 36:21

47:7 50:1,16

56:3,7 57:21

72:15 75:20

87:7 98:19

108:11

121:22 147:2

Arthur 64:17

artifact 79:22

ask 29:19

50:18 66:15

107:20 114:8

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asked 62:1,16

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asking 11:10

66:12 83:11

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107:22 129:5

assume 15:20

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66:17 67:7

assuming

20:12 35:14

138:8

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11:17 43:21

60:14 66:22

72:15,17

112:22

assumptions

112:14

119:16

attempt 15:1

attendance

4:6 151:17

attorney 153:8

153:10

audio 1:22

152:6

authorized

153:4

automobiles

57:4

available

67:20,22

68:3 77:13

average 48:11

49:1 108:11

125:20,22

126:4,5,21

129:20

130:14 143:1

averages

88:15 129:15

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126:20

Awareness

12:21

away 29:12

43:16

axes 21:4

axis 18:3,13

19:14

B

B 51:21 115:9

133:1

BAB7:16,19

7:20 8:2,7,14

11:13 83:12

back 7:7 10:9

13:5,11

26:11 29:20
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29:22 33:13

36:19 38:10

39:20 41:11

42:1 45:15

50:19 54:9

56:18 75:18

80:21 81:3

81:10,14,17

81:20 82:21

85:1 86:9

90:17 96:16

99:10 117:9

124:18

137:16 146:2

148:19 149:9

149:14 152:2

152:3

background

23:20 24:9

bad 36:4 54:11

62:17 142:14

badge 81:12

baked 52:17

ban 77:9

Bantle 2:2 4:2

4:3,10 5:11

5:14,17,22

6:4,10 12:15

13:4 80:4

81:14 91:21

129:14

133:13

134:13,16,18

135:16,20

136:6,9,11

136:17,19

150:17

151:16,21

152:3

bar 128:21

Barkas 2:12

barrier 151:9

bars 44:8,21

45:1 127:13

128:19

base 39:21

base-case

23:21 73:2

79:16 129:3

based 15:15

22:1 28:2

43:2 45:20

48:6 54:20

59:10 63:8

67:3 68:10

69:21 71:8

93:10 110:21

132:12

133:11

baseline

108:10

basic 14:4

basically

19:15 24:10

33:21,22

35:3 36:10

36:22 57:18

58:11 62:2

90:5 104:14

120:7 136:3

146:1

basis 115:19

135:7 143:1

Battaglia 2:3

5:6,6

BAV9:12

10:19 94:9

94:11 95:7

137:18,18

138:5,7

BAVs 95:8,8

Bay 114:3

bearing 83:17

beast 86:19

beat 43:11

beauty 49:22

before 6:18,20

7:2 13:8

25:22 82:14

89:5,8 93:4

120:2 134:5

139:4 146:5

146:7

begin 15:9

52:8 67:13

behavior's

65:21

behold 59:1

being 27:3,4

37:13 39:1,3

39:3 53:9

57:12 62:11

100:13 102:2

107:8

believe 53:18

59:6 73:13

130:13

below 8:22 9:2

11:17 109:6

140:13

141:12

benefit 64:2

100:18

120:17 126:9

147:1

benefits 14:15

102:18

103:12,14

Berkeley 5:8

besides 95:22

best 58:13

75:12 78:17

136:22,22

146:16

147:16 148:7

better 31:9

56:11 60:4

60:11 67:7

75:17 78:12

92:7 102:6

104:16 115:9

116:6,18

143:22

between 20:5

24:6 62:8

63:2,3 66:6

88:13 100:2

111:10

119:17 123:4

128:19 132:2

138:4 140:1

151:3

beyond 9:21

37:1 73:18

big 8:17 10:1

39:7 71:8

86:19,20

110:5 120:16

139:21

bigger 70:2

104:15

122:13

139:19

biggest 110:6

Bill's 50:20

billable 59:10

bit 16:1,5 56:7

56:8,13

62:13 63:1

70:2 97:17

97:18,19

127:5 147:10

black 34:22

blue 32:9,10

33:14 34:16

34:17,18,21

44:11 127:13

128:18,21

board 85:2

133:10,12,14

134:15,17,20

135:17 136:2

boards 114:3

Bob 4:18 7:4

25:1 43:15

65:10 67:18

67:19 84:2

85:19 104:9

124:13 139:7

150:21

booms 31:7

both 29:6,15

31:19 60:19

136:12

bottom 32:15

34:12 142:18

bound 28:14

29:10 70:20

bounding 75:2

box 64:19

132:19

branch 16:17

break 24:1

34:11 52:2

62:22

breaks 54:2

breath 79:7

102:8 120:8

125:2 144:3

149:18

bring 81:11

113:6 123:14

broadly 56:19

broken 17:4

17:11 23:13

23:16 27:4

34:14 49:16

50:4

brought 81:21

150:6

BTUs 109:6

143:15

bucket 37:14

bugs 126:16

build 14:17

16:11 28:6

50:16 51:8

build-up 83:14

building 8:2

14:18 17:4
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

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Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

4

24:22 25:2

28:19 33:4

39:4 44:14

44:14,15

48:11,17,18

48:19 50:3

51:16,21

53:5,5,12,13

53:16 59:19

67:1 100:10

118:5 138:9

141:6 142:20

147:7 152:4

buildings 7:20

8:3 16:22,22

17:1 23:5,8

28:10,17

29:4 30:3

32:16,18

33:1,11,12

36:2 39:1

40:1 59:21

86:11,11,12

86:13 106:17

140:13 143:1

143:2

bulk 37:17

bunch 16:14

54:7

business 49:9

49:14,19,20

53:3,8 54:12

54:15,16

55:17 56:22

66:6,17,21

businesses

57:6

busy 96:21

button 6:12

buy 51:22 52:1

52:11 54:14

56:2 63:5

64:4,7 73:10

75:14 92:6

buying15:21

54:16 66:15

C

C 2:1,13 3:1

4:1 33:14

51:21

cabinet 96:6

131:4,5

cabinet's

105:17

calculate 15:2

23:13 128:9

calculated

107:22

119:19

138:11

calculation

17:6 27:16

calibrate 30:13

31:10

calibrating

25:7

calibration

25:18 26:14

29:6

California

108:20

110:12 118:4

123:13

call 16:22 20:4

23:20 59:12

73:16 127:20

149:7

came 39:21

42:17 88:8

120:3 130:15

142:5

campus 39:20

capacity 74:10

95:21 124:21

128:10

132:14 133:5

capital 53:16

53:19

capture 74:3

car 5:21 52:1,2

care 39:7

63:15

Carrier 4:18

7:5 25:1

39:20 65:11

84:3 104:9

139:8

carrot 47:22

carrying 38:1

carve 124:16

case 10:2 24:2

42:8 52:18

54:12,15,16

66:17,21

71:15 107:8

120:7 136:22

136:22,22

139:15

catch 149:21

categories

16:14 27:15

category 7:6

30:22 79:5

caucus 148:2

148:13 149:8

151:2

cause 52:17

caution 98:18

CAV8:2,3

CBECS 27:11

29:3,13,21

29:22 30:8

30:14,14

31:16 141:3

census 26:6

35:8,10,11

35:14

center 49:2

century 30:1

certain 7:13

15:19 28:11

74:9 92:4

107:3 127:3

141:12

certainly 69:13

97:2 103:1

111:3 116:15

127:1 151:3

CERTIFICATE

153:1

Certified 153:3

CERTIFY

153:4,7

cetera 69:2

85:15

CFM 130:19

chair 13:16

challenges

100:22

chance 58:14

124:9 137:11

chances 38:6

54:8

Chandara 2:11

change 14:10

14:12,22

15:15,22

18:12,13,13

18:15 20:20

21:2 23:9

25:13,14

29:11 31:14

31:18 37:6

40:20,20

41:16 42:19

42:20,21

44:1,17 47:7

54:21 55:1

63:14 64:18

65:16 85:20

92:14 108:6

109:19

110:13 126:2

147:4

changed 14:20

25:11 69:2

changes 14:1

14:9 15:8

19:15 43:8

111:15

144:20 145:2

changing 17:2

20:14 45:11

72:16,16

92:13,18,20

channels

16:21 23:4

44:7

characterized

8:15

Charlie 2:18

5:12,15

chart 32:2

33:20

chase 70:17

cheap 51:18

54:14

cheaper 92:8

check 87:12

138:6

checked 129:8

checking 79:1

chemical

141:16

chevron 13:19

chill 69:17

chiller 69:16

chillers 30:16

70:3,4,9

chooses 91:7

choosing

21:12 22:2

86:7

Chopping 37:2

chose 118:1

139:3

Chris 145:14

145:15,18

Christopher
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

5

2:16 6:2

circle 90:17

circuitries

74:20

circuits 74:14

clarification

8:21 81:22

clarify 9:1

82:22

class 16:12

45:19 51:21

51:21 95:18

96:2,3 108:9

115:17

classes 44:6

66:1 145:17

cleaner 49:2

124:21

cleaners 49:16

clear 8:3 73:14

clever 51:4

clients 54:1

climate 107:13

closed 42:8

57:22

closely 88:14

closer 80:20

80:20 115:5

clue 133:18

coast 115:19

Cochran 2:4

5:5,5

coefficient

121:16

coffee 81:5

coil 67:15

101:5 104:15

104:20

cold 12:9

107:4

collectible

115:22

color 34:16

colors 32:3

column 138:3

come 10:9

22:11 39:19

81:16 83:14

84:18 102:11

118:21

120:21

124:18 135:7

144:2 149:9

149:14

comes 21:17

62:4 68:15

71:2 115:15

122:15

comfort 64:9

comfortable

4:6 78:21

123:12

coming 12:8

14:20 26:12

33:10 43:20

66:19 130:5

146:17

comment 8:20

64:17,18

65:3 78:5

90:4,5

137:10 144:6

151:19

comments 6:5

103:2 146:11

150:17

commercial

14:18 49:11

56:16,21

60:13 106:17

109:8,16,17

112:8 113:1

130:15

company 64:6

comparable

96:19 102:3

140:6

compared

65:13 117:17

comparing

79:4 101:17

comparison

57:14 97:12

compilation

22:3

complete

81:22

completed

81:19 125:18

completely

25:1,2

component

18:19 23:11

32:12

components

61:10

compressor

9:7 19:1 46:5

47:7,10,14

54:8 58:15

58:20,22

60:2 61:10

61:17 62:17

62:19 67:6,7

68:5,22

69:13,15

70:10 71:13

72:4 73:13

73:21 74:5

74:15 77:12

78:15 83:16

104:10 115:9

compressor's

67:22 68:2

compressors

18:19 22:8

60:16 61:1,7

61:20 68:14

68:15 69:4

69:14 70:4

72:14,16,17

74:16

compromise

126:12

comps 85:8

concept 14:4

132:7

conceptual

15:12

conceptually

24:13 73:16

concern 92:3

92:6 142:17

concerned

115:7 139:10

140:19

condenser

94:16

conditioned

28:18

conditioner

49:17 50:4

conditioners

30:2,19 82:7

84:16

conditioning

18:22 30:1

49:6 83:3

102:3 110:6

conditions

116:1

confirmed

21:20

confused

139:10

connected

153:10

consider

89:13 95:6

103:13 110:9

110:16

116:11

considerably

145:1

consideration

94:4

considered

125:14

consistent

25:16 88:22

89:22 90:6

constant 7:20

9:13 23:9

138:4

constrain

56:13

constrained

56:6

construction

31:7 32:11

32:21 33:19

44:12,13

50:18 92:15

consultant 5:2

consultants

89:21

container

114:7

context 122:9

Continued 3:1

contract

114:12

contractor

50:16 61:15

contractors

62:1 116:13

contribute

120:18

contribution

91:4 127:4

control 10:16

10:17

converging

147:3

conversation

136:20 137:4

152:5

conversion

33:7,9 65:6

74:2 126:22
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

6

128:13,17,20

129:5 135:1

135:13

convincing

63:22

cool 140:13

cooled 27:12

69:16

cooling 83:16

94:18 95:1

97:11 107:1

108:13

111:11,15

116:5,7

119:21

140:17

141:12,14,16

141:17 142:5

142:6 143:2

COP 82:19

103:1,3,5,8

103:13 104:6

106:8 108:1

108:7 110:16

110:17 111:6

111:19 115:9

115:21

118:19

119:12

120:11,14,16

120:22

121:18

122:14 124:5

COP/IEER

82:2

correct 11:15

97:13 107:10

126:4,5,8

131:17

136:18

140:21

correctly 15:6

140:11

correlated

121:3

correlation

103:5,10

116:9 119:3

119:6,9

121:6,9,9,12

121:16,18

132:14 133:5

correlations

108:3

cost 8:15 10:3

10:15,19

11:2 13:20

13:21 26:3

46:14 47:4,7

48:6 49:14

52:11 57:12

60:2,5 64:16

64:20 65:7

65:16,17,18

65:19 71:13

72:4,18

84:10,12

85:5,8 87:15

99:13 100:1

100:5,14

101:2,2

102:5,10

116:22 126:9

128:16

costs 10:14,22

14:14 65:8

84:11 85:9

85:17,20

100:2 125:22

coughing

20:12 22:6

40:11 85:6

107:3 135:13

140:3

Coughlin 2:5

5:8,8 13:17

19:6,11,18

20:1,8,13,18

21:13,21

22:3,12,15

24:18 25:5

26:2,5 27:20

28:8,13,20

29:1 30:12

30:21 31:2

32:4,7,10,14

32:22 33:4,9

34:3,7,9,19

34:22 35:3,8

35:11,20

36:8,16,21

37:3,10,15

38:9,19 39:5

39:11,14

40:6 41:2,17

42:4,6,14

43:1,7,19

45:2,5,10

46:1,7 54:20

55:8,12,15

57:1,3,8 58:3

65:5,15,18

65:22 66:12

72:19 73:15

74:5 79:12

79:16 80:1

86:13,16

125:17

128:18 130:1

130:8 131:6

131:9,12,18

136:10,13

138:9,14

140:5 141:1

141:18 142:3

142:9,14

143:6 147:11

147:14

counsel 153:8

153:10

count 17:11

counting

34:13,14

country 140:3

counts 44:6

99:7

couple 7:14

16:6 62:20

140:5

court 78:7

81:7,8

courtyard

148:22

cover 145:17

covered 27:14

83:5 120:14

139:4

covers 83:2

99:19,19

crane 47:17

create 26:7

70:16

creates 126:16

credible 29:13

criteria 7:15

CRK-6 68:16

CRKF 68:16

cross 110:2

crosses 20:9

crunch 101:19

101:19

CUAC/CWAF

1:1

cumulative

17:21 18:2

26:15 31:5

31:10,21

38:12 42:2

44:2,5 45:21

46:1

curious 58:19

86:19

current 20:16

31:3 43:21

45:19 79:8

124:15

currently 45:7

130:1,2

curve 19:12,16

38:8 39:12

125:9,10,13

125:20,21

126:10,22

127:21,21

128:7,17,20

129:5 130:12

130:12

132:11 135:1

135:3,10,13

curves 125:13

126:1 127:4

128:13

142:18

curving

126:10

customer 55:4

63:22 66:13

customers

62:18 63:5

cut 22:16 39:9

39:10 40:13

41:19,20

cutoff 22:18

23:1

CV 83:20

CV/VAV83:19

99:4

cycle 57:20

104:2

Cymbalsky 2:6

4:11,11 6:6

6:11 13:12

21:19 22:10

22:13 41:5

41:14 42:1,5

42:7,21 43:2

43:13,16

45:21 46:3,8

47:21 48:4,6

48:15,21
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

7

52:4,15,20

52:22 53:22

58:14,17

60:21 64:12

64:21 65:2

67:5,11

70:15,22

71:12,20

75:4 76:22

78:8,14,21

80:16,20

81:3,11,18

85:10,20

86:1 93:8

94:3 107:11

107:17

111:22 112:4

112:15,20

113:6,13

114:8,13,17

115:5 122:6

122:11,18

123:17,20

124:7,20

125:3,7

129:19 137:5

137:14

142:12,16

144:4,9,12

144:22 145:8

146:6,9,13

146:20 147:3

147:8,12,15

148:3,6,15

148:19,22

149:4,11,16

149:20 150:3

150:5,15

151:7

D

D 2:2 4:1

D.C 1:13

dangling

47:22

dark 32:13,14

34:18

Darmington

2:7

data 10:3 15:5

15:9,9 18:19

20:4,6,7,11

22:1 23:19

25:19 26:5

26:16 29:16

31:7 35:1,4,8

35:10,13,15

42:5,8,11,12

42:16 43:3,6

43:12 45:20

55:16 56:6

57:13 60:7

60:18 70:13

80:6,8 83:8,8

83:22 84:3

84:10 86:10

87:22 88:11

88:14 90:3

97:21 98:20

119:2,3

123:9 129:7

145:3

database

96:17 97:10

98:2 108:4

121:2

Dated 153:12

Dave 3:12 4:15

115:20

day 47:11,15

52:6 146:5

149:7 153:12

days 81:20

96:12 126:17

143:11

deadly 21:19

deal 39:8

84:19 134:8

debate 46:4

55:11

decarboniza...

118:5

decide 58:1

62:6,18

121:10

decision 15:2

15:6 53:2,3

56:22 60:1

61:19 64:22

66:6 67:1

72:20 92:21

135:7

decision-ma...

59:18

decisions

50:19 57:7

59:17 67:3

73:3 106:8

115:14

deck 136:2

145:5

deeply 116:16

define 18:8

63:10

defined 16:8

definitely 47:2

109:17

definition

124:10,14,17

definitions 8:5

degrees 7:12

12:6 140:13

del 2:9 6:2 7:9

deLaski 2:8

12:20,20

42:10 43:5,9

50:2,8 55:2

55:13 56:17

57:2,9 59:15

63:7 67:18

68:2 75:1,7

76:15 81:5

81:10 86:2

89:3 90:17

90:20 117:5

117:12,19

118:8,13

119:8 120:21

121:4,8,14

122:20

127:11,15

129:7,11

137:13 144:6

144:10,15

145:2,11

146:3 147:1

147:6 148:1

148:4,8,11

148:17 149:3

149:14

150:20 151:1

151:12

delta 25:22

52:9,10 90:8

90:9,13,13

91:19

delta's 90:4

demand 115:7

116:1

demolished

40:2

demolition

24:16

demolitions

24:19

Department

1:10

depending

51:1 91:6

95:18 131:10

depends 10:9

47:14 48:18

48:19 49:18

49:20 51:1

60:20 64:10

66:13

derive 55:7

derived 35:14

99:3

describe

143:14

151:13

described

115:11

describing

52:7

description

125:12

design 8:2

9:14,19 12:5

50:16 106:8

109:3,19

136:2 144:1

designed

41:19 61:13

designing

111:18

designs 8:4,10

8:13,14,22

91:15 94:22

108:21 111:3

111:10,20

132:21

desire 119:1

details 72:22

141:19

determine

14:14

determines

14:1 18:10

Detlef 3:8 5:7

82:1,4 89:14

91:2 97:9

126:2

Detlef's 105:22

106:4 115:3

127:3

developed

89:21 126:3

development
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

8

115:15

diagram 13:19

Dick 141:21

142:12 144:2

die 61:7

died 61:18

diet 80:17

difference

24:6 37:17

41:4 65:13

86:5,6 100:1

119:13 138:4

differences

116:17

different 11:11

15:12,12

22:4 31:22

44:7 45:16

55:16 62:20

66:1,1 70:11

70:18 75:19

78:20 79:13

79:17,18

83:6 84:11

84:20 87:15

93:12 96:14

100:16

107:22

125:13,14

130:4 141:7

differential

48:7 87:19

88:19,20

89:5,11

93:15,21

95:5 96:20

100:2,8,14

101:2

differentials

85:14 87:17

88:1,5,7,9

89:22 99:20

100:5 124:1

124:3

differentiate

75:16

differently

116:4

diffuser 10:4

11:18 12:8

diffusers 7:8

7:12,14,21

10:20 11:2

11:14

dime 78:9

direction 71:6

94:10

directly 140:6

dirty 67:15

disagree

123:17

discharge

11:5,21 12:2

12:13

disconnect

140:1

discuss 6:20

124:3 145:3

discussed

129:16 130:6

132:15

discussion

82:4,6,15

103:1,11,17

128:2 139:10

140:19

141:20

discussions

7:7 136:15

145:6

disruption

49:15

distance 80:19

distinguishes

30:15

distinguishing

86:10

distribute

27:15 124:1

distributed

16:13 17:10

23:15

distribution

17:7,13,16

17:18,21

18:3,6,8,16

18:17 20:21

21:11,13

26:9,19

34:10 36:11

36:17 37:20

38:12 40:8

40:21,22

41:11 56:11

125:12 126:2

126:8 127:8

127:20

dive 6:18

13:13

diverge 111:12

111:13

diverging

115:11

divided 63:1

DOE 4:9,11 5:5

82:15 113:20

137:5

dog 123:12

doing 27:19

39:10 48:1,3

50:17,17

75:11 112:15

119:6,11

139:2

dollars 10:5

115:15

dominate 27:8

44:9

dominated

108:13

Donuts 149:1

door 6:22

Doppel 2:10

4:19,19 36:5

36:5,14 37:8

37:11 40:10

40:11,14

dots 43:2

doubt 42:19

71:7

downs 56:1

downstream

125:15

126:21,22

drawing 85:2

drive 106:8

driven 54:22

driver 52:11

driving 65:20

drop 24:3

43:22 45:18

55:21 65:9

71:3 127:18

128:9,14

129:22

132:10 133:2

134:20 135:2

135:14,21

138:19

dropped 69:8

136:4

drops 45:16

dry 49:2,16

78:9

dual 124:8

duct 92:12

124:9 132:20

due 31:7

Duly 133:22

dump 12:9

Dunkin' 149:1

during 32:16

82:9

dwell 45:12

dynamic 75:9

78:12

E

E 2:1,1 3:1,1,3

4:1,1

E-pump 95:8,8

E-pumps

95:12

earlier 8:5 18:7

23:3 118:17

124:9

early 82:5

147:18 149:9

easier 70:22

easy 73:7

149:5

eating 146:21

economic

22:18,22

24:6,8 26:6

55:22 115:14

economics

98:16,18

100:16 101:4

economized

140:11

economizer

99:3 140:16

141:7,17

142:4,7

144:1

economizers

83:13 99:2

139:11,17

140:2,9,14

141:19 143:1

143:3

educated

102:15

Edward 2:2

EER 89:10

103:5,20

115:8 116:7

effect 55:21

57:17 61:7

76:4 109:21
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

9

110:8 145:4

effective

103:18

116:22

efficiencies

90:8

efficiency 9:19

14:12 56:11

56:12 67:5

82:5,11 83:6

85:13 94:14

100:15 103:8

104:12,12

128:11

efficient 68:6

68:19 100:19

100:20 122:4

effort 78:13

109:10 148:7

Eileen 2:12

13:2

either 22:5

48:14 60:14

103:5 113:13

114:20 132:6

138:15

148:13

EL 45:19 79:10

86:7 90:12

92:4 93:20

111:4 126:2

EL-2.5 9:14

EL-3 9:15,20

9:21 46:10

137:17

EL-3s 66:9

EL-4 9:2,6,9,20

9:21

EL-5 9:6

elastic 44:14

elasticities

56:3

elasticity

15:15 24:3

25:10,13

44:1,17

54:22 55:3

56:12,16,21

65:8,12

70:19 71:5

73:6 110:3

electric 4:17

4:19 82:7

84:17

electrics

110:12

ELs 45:16

128:14 129:4

else 6:1 27:7

42:9 49:7

51:9 54:6,7

57:22 82:20

95:21 139:3

144:4 149:7

Emerson 5:1

40:4 60:12

emphasize

17:15 73:2

employee

153:8,9

end 15:4,7

45:17 96:4,5

97:5 98:7

101:18

122:13 133:3

133:3 138:2

141:4 142:15

143:9 152:6

enduring

38:14

energies

137:17

energy 1:10

13:20 39:3

50:12 91:3,4

91:11 101:9

106:10

110:11

119:14,21

120:19 122:4

125:22

137:20 138:5

139:2,12,17

144:1 145:10

engineer's

116:15

engineering

86:4 119:5

119:10

enough 48:1

94:19 138:12

entire 62:18

entirely 21:14

EO 23:8 28:5

EPA 77:9

114:5

equal 23:14

25:13 27:3

34:21 36:12

49:12

equipment

7:16,19,20

8:2,22 9:13

10:15 11:11

11:12,21,22

12:1 16:7,12

16:12 25:3

27:12,14,21

28:9,11,21

28:22 29:5

30:15,17

32:16 33:5,5

34:7,8 36:3

37:22 39:2

44:6 51:4

54:5 57:17

58:21 59:1

60:10,11,14

61:21 62:3,4

63:13 64:8

72:12,14

76:17 77:16

82:9,12,16

82:17 84:20

86:8 99:19

112:9 113:1

113:2 117:20

140:3

especially

36:14 37:12

77:9 134:7

essentially

13:20,21

15:17 16:8

17:19 21:3,4

22:21 25:6

25:12 26:14

31:20 33:18

37:6 38:3,6

44:3 65:20

66:5 129:1

establish 77:6

established

82:10 103:8

estimate 14:6

25:11 27:11

29:6 73:8

estimated

91:18

estimates

45:20

estimating

140:11

et 69:2 85:15

evaporating

104:19

evaporator

104:15

ever 77:15

every 52:6

75:18 98:4,4

109:3

everybody4:2

13:6 14:5

33:17 34:1,4

78:22 90:22

104:5,7

124:2

everyone 6:13

78:21

everything

21:3 27:7

29:3 36:22

42:9 51:9

54:6 70:10

96:21 145:4

Everything's

112:20,21

exact 51:16

70:10

exactly 19:19

19:20 88:6

88:21 101:10

example 66:9

66:10

exceeds 36:12

except 95:20

exceptions

106:19

exchangers

90:14

excited 112:18

exclude

124:15

excuse 25:21

exercise 86:3

exhibit 17:9

existing 16:22

17:1 23:5,8

23:19 32:16

32:18 33:1

60:2

exists 19:17

38:4 43:3

expanding

44:10

expect 117:14

132:13 138:3

expecting

108:15
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

10

expenses

53:18

expensive

52:8,12 62:5

63:13 99:14

100:12,13

101:6 102:2

experience

68:11 151:13

explain 99:1,1

127:5

explicitly 15:2

explore 123:7

exported

126:6

express 76:3

expression

25:11 75:2

extend 35:9

46:19

extent 45:12

53:1 118:15

118:19

external

137:22 138:7

extra 11:2 24:4

64:15 146:19

extremely 15:7

36:15

F

faced 48:10

faces 55:5

facilitator 7:1

12:17 13:3

fact 19:14

23:22

factor 26:20

38:7 59:16

59:20 61:18

76:12

factors 59:17

fail 17:22

19:20 73:21

failing 17:9

18:4 20:22

fails 73:7,7

77:15

failure 17:20

18:19 19:1

21:12,14

23:15 24:8

41:22

failures 22:1

fair 18:7 94:19

103:16

fairly 17:15

133:3,3

136:1

fall 7:5 97:5

fallacy 52:3

falloff 79:10,17

fan 90:5,9,14

93:19 94:13

104:10

128:10

137:16,20

138:10

far 20:4 29:12

74:15 81:6

111:20,22

129:14

farther 8:8

fashion 59:11

128:17

fast-moving

84:15

fat 18:6

fatter 18:16

20:21

feature 41:18

features 59:17

93:6

fed 14:13

feel 6:20 30:4

143:22

feeling 88:9

FEMALE5:18

33:3 37:2

74:12,17

80:10 105:22

109:16 115:3

137:2

fewer 56:2

field 10:22

11:2

figure 14:7

17:8 22:18

23:20 27:13

85:4 137:17

figured 6:18

figuring

110:20

final 150:17

finances 55:22

financially

153:11

find 57:13

62:12 126:17

fine 74:2

fire 49:12

firms 87:6

first 4:5,7 16:7

32:19 73:1

83:12 125:11

130:21,22

140:8

fit 26:15,18

31:12,20

36:1,4 41:15

42:5,18

fit-up 69:3,5

fits 42:8

fitting 27:8

134:6 136:1

fittings 69:2

five 51:11,13

63:2,16,16

122:3

five- 49:3

fix 73:8 105:15

fixing 30:14

flat 129:2

flight 149:21

floor 1:12 16:9

23:6,7 24:20

27:11 28:18

28:20 29:3

152:4

flow 12:5

FMCS 4:3,10

focus 84:16

118:2 126:5

focused 41:6

82:7

focusing

141:21 142:1

folks 66:14

75:15

follow 112:19

food 81:7,8

foot 55:18

143:16 148:7

footage

117:15,16

footprint 64:18

forced 108:22

foregoing

153:5

forget 52:5

91:9 146:14

formal 25:16

79:2 81:19

136:6

formula 46:11

forward 10:10

43:21 82:11

97:5 126:19

137:7

found 7:11

22:4 57:3

131:11

four 12:16

72:17 143:11

147:10 151:8

four-hour

149:20

fourth 24:13

fraction 15:19

17:22 23:17

30:6 57:18

73:10 87:10

106:9 122:10

128:13,21

frame 103:18

104:4 109:13

113:22

Frank 61:6

frankly 114:19

freak 44:21

frequent 106:6

frickin' 105:17

Friday 98:7

front 95:17

fuel 123:6

full 8:7 30:18

117:13

145:17

fully 126:18

function 16:15

17:18,20,22

18:3 26:9

41:3 63:21

102:5,10

135:22,22

138:17

functions

17:21

further 30:17

43:7 82:14

86:17 136:14

153:7

future 29:17

43:4 44:20

62:5 101:20

111:21,22

G

G 4:1

game 146:13
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

11

gas 4:16 82:18

85:14 87:19

88:15,16

89:9 90:14

95:13,14

97:11 102:7

104:21 105:1

106:7 107:5

110:12

gave 27:11

Gee 104:5

general 26:18

generally

60:10 132:7

146:6

generation

68:15

getting 23:8

33:17 41:7

41:13 70:1

77:15 80:20

102:6 104:1

115:5

give 19:18

20:18 45:3

98:20 102:9

112:10

118:21 119:2

119:3 122:19

126:3,5,8

144:13

given 86:5,7

90:21 117:13

122:9

gives 25:19

37:5 91:10

123:8 140:15

giving 27:18

27:20 37:1

45:13 84:12

100:18

go 6:17 10:9

13:14 16:1,5

16:18,21

18:14 21:1

24:2 26:11

29:10 33:11

36:19 38:10

42:1 43:7

49:5,7,8,12

55:18 59:1

65:6 69:15

70:5 71:9

74:10 75:12

75:14 77:13

81:7,8,14,20

82:14 83:13

86:3 90:13

91:14,19

93:22 94:13

99:9 100:21

102:15

108:14,21

109:12,18,18

115:12,16

116:21,21

117:4,9

128:14

132:21 139:5

146:10

148:14 149:1

149:22

goal 14:5

98:11 145:16

goes 13:21

22:21 33:11

33:13 40:10

44:17 45:11

52:6 55:18

63:10 69:20

73:9 82:21

105:18 125:1

going 7:1 8:16

10:1,11 12:9

13:12 15:19

16:1,4 17:1,4

18:13 20:21

20:22 23:22

27:2 31:19

31:20 40:2

40:20,20

41:15 42:14

42:19,21

43:5,7 44:4

44:16 45:15

47:12 48:14

49:6,7,8 50:4

50:8 51:17

51:20 52:16

54:9,9 58:20

59:2,11

60:18 61:16

62:6 63:20

63:22 64:1,2

64:3,7 65:9

66:10,18

67:16 68:4

70:13 71:3

73:9,12

74:13 75:11

75:16,18,20

77:15 78:8

81:20 82:11

90:6,7,21

92:14,22

93:19 94:14

94:15 96:8

98:20 100:15

102:14,15

105:15,18,19

106:16,22

107:2 108:19

108:20,21,22

109:2,8

111:6,11,19

111:20

115:12,13,16

115:22 116:3

117:5 118:3

120:16

122:19,21

126:3 131:18

132:6 136:22

138:22

140:20

144:17 145:4

146:18,20,21

147:4,21

148:4 149:6

Gollapudi 2:11

gone 97:9

good 4:2 5:14

5:16,19 6:15

15:5,9 26:8

31:12 42:18

47:1 54:12

54:15,16

59:22 78:22

90:15 102:3

103:5,11

104:1 112:15

122:16

123:16 133:4

138:12,16

139:2,5

150:5

Goodman 4:14

goose 70:17

got 8:22 9:3

34:1,4 38:10

42:7 47:15

49:5 51:13

52:12 62:20

62:21 93:22

97:21 108:11

121:9 122:12

122:20 130:1

146:19 149:7

150:13

grail 56:14

granularity

29:21 30:8

graph 20:11

31:4,5,11

gray 44:8

great 45:1 52:1

112:11

123:20 124:7

124:20

greater 63:7

95:16

green 32:11,13

32:14,20

33:15 34:16

64:7

Greg 2:22 5:10

8:9 56:14

74:5 107:20

107:21 111:4

ground 81:21

group 1:1 4:8

12:16 28:2

60:20 84:19

96:11 122:15

123:15 137:8

142:17

150:18

grow 117:14

117:17 118:3

growing 26:13

growth 28:5

guarantee

54:6 59:12

guess 33:21

45:7 52:4

55:8 56:17

56:18 66:20

75:7 83:8

86:2,9,18

87:14,15

94:21 96:8

98:5 100:20

101:20

104:14

107:17

116:12

118:10

123:22

129:21

133:12
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

12

134:11

135:14

141:10 144:6

150:16,20

guessed

107:11

guesses

102:15

guessing 41:3

55:13

guy 53:4,5

54:4,4,13

124:13

guy's 54:9

guys 42:11

47:15 56:18

71:2 78:16

90:20,22

107:18 114:4

118:15,20

122:21 146:4

151:1

H

hair 49:22

51:14 53:4,6

150:10

half 38:20

39:15 50:11

80:18

halfway 62:8

hallway

148:15,16

hand 102:4

handed 42:12

handlers

83:18

hands 129:17

129:17

134:19 136:6

happen 78:2

95:20 105:18

109:15

111:10 115:1

happens 48:8

50:21 52:7

67:5 132:16

132:21

happy 70:17

hard 33:22

35:12 43:11

44:22 49:15

54:17 60:21

108:21 134:1

150:8

harder 35:22

97:17,18,19

129:19

hardly 120:19

Harvey 3:2

4:21 20:3

21:16 24:12

25:22 29:20

43:10 49:10

57:15 59:6

61:5 76:1

78:14 79:3

86:18 88:4

101:22

103:15

104:18

106:11

122:22

123:16 127:1

Harvey's

118:15

has 11:4,22

21:20 22:20

29:3 33:18

39:1 43:3

55:21 64:13

72:14,17

73:16 79:18

84:14 90:5

98:14 100:7

100:10

101:15 103:1

113:2 118:6

124:13

139:21

151:16

hasn't 124:9

hat 58:17

116:15,19

hate 124:12

haven't 57:3

100:3 111:2

151:7

having 7:21

8:4 11:14

55:10 106:8

126:14 128:7

140:18

he'll 6:9

head 6:20 48:2

59:9 84:8

87:13 146:10

hear 5:16 6:13

122:20

heard 93:12,14

118:16 124:1

148:11,12

hearing 89:20

116:14

117:14

heat 29:2

30:20,21

82:7,7,18,19

84:17 85:14

86:11,14

87:10,19,19

87:20 88:15

88:18 89:9

89:10 90:14

94:12,16

95:7,15 96:1

97:11,14,16

97:17 99:22

100:4,11

101:1,2

102:2 104:11

104:12,21

105:1 106:6

106:15 107:6

107:6,8

108:1,22

110:13 111:5

111:11,14

115:8,21

116:2,17,22

117:13,16

119:15,18,20

119:22 122:3

heating 100:19

100:19,20

102:6,10

103:12 104:1

107:1,2

108:8 109:7

116:5 120:4

120:5

heavily 37:22

heavy 47:10

47:16

help 12:1

96:12 97:7

98:1 104:16

helpful 75:3

97:1,21

149:8

helps 59:14

133:21

her 40:1

here 9:20 14:6

14:22 17:17

17:20 18:2

18:11,15

19:2 21:2

22:17 23:2

25:4,9 30:9

31:4 34:12

35:21 36:22

37:1,1,17

42:22 44:2,3

44:4,10 45:7

49:8 51:10

52:7,11 60:5

60:10,16

62:1 64:12

66:21 70:18

74:4 93:9

105:10

109:17 111:2

112:16 113:7

114:18

117:14

121:16

139:21 144:8

144:15

145:19

150:13

here's 13:18

Hey 52:1 62:6

123:21

high 18:5 29:9

36:6,15

45:17 49:15

52:21 72:10

75:5 88:20

100:15,22

130:19 133:3

high-end 64:7

66:15

higher 30:6

56:8 79:9,10

90:8,8,9

93:20 95:5

95:16 101:2

111:4,19

115:9 121:18

128:15 129:3

129:4 132:4

140:17

141:15 142:7

142:13

highest 133:2

hinted 57:16

hinting 76:2

historic 25:20

26:12
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

13

historical 26:7

151:13

historically

55:15

history 64:11

hit 6:12 71:3

111:19

hockey 146:13

Hoffman 2:12

13:2,2 148:9

hold 91:21

96:1

holiday 146:17

holy 56:14

honestly 84:9

Hootman 2:13

4:22,22

37:14 38:21

39:9,12

40:19 43:18

47:3,6 48:3,5

48:8,12,19

49:1,13,18

49:22 50:6

50:14 51:7

51:19 52:14

53:12 54:17

58:6,10 61:2

61:12 63:18

65:1,4 68:8

68:12,18,20

69:7,11,18

70:1,12,21

71:16,22

72:2,6,8 76:7

76:9,11,14

76:19 77:3

77:21 78:2,5

79:6 80:8

82:20 83:11

84:10,22

85:3,8,16,22

86:9,15 87:1

87:4,7 88:12

89:7,16

90:10,15

92:17,20

93:2 95:9,19

96:4,14,18

98:17 99:11

99:13,16,21

100:6,10,17

101:5,9,13

101:20 102:6

102:13,19,21

103:3,6

105:7,10,12

105:14,16,21

106:3 107:6

107:14 108:5

108:18

109:11 110:4

110:10,19,22

111:13,16

112:2,10,18

113:4,15,19

114:2,7,11

114:20

115:10 116:8

117:2,11

118:12

123:19

127:10,13

130:7,16,20

131:4,15,21

132:3 134:3

134:15,17

135:1 136:5

136:8,16

143:10,13

146:12

147:20

148:12,16,18

148:21

149:19

150:10,16

151:6

hope 60:4

109:20

146:10 151:4

151:14

hopeful

147:12

hopes 58:1

horse 43:11

horses 78:19

hours 107:1

108:12

117:19,20

121:22

141:11,12,14

141:22

house 77:14

However

126:11

huge 42:19

Hunt 2:14 4:16

4:16 44:19

44:19 90:1

115:2,2,6,6

116:2,6,11

123:13,13

hunting 86:19

Hurst 2:15 5:4

5:4

HVAC 59:22

hybrid 126:10

hypothesizing

64:1

I

I'd 74:8 87:12

122:22

124:12

135:10

I'll 4:10 5:20

11:7 15:3

51:10 58:17

84:11 98:5

116:11 124:1

124:5,18

144:13

IA 119:16

idea 78:16

ideal 134:7

ideally 42:15

identify 114:18

IEER 86:8

87:18,22

89:3,22 90:4

91:4,7,10,14

94:17 95:1

97:12 99:20

100:22 103:3

103:9,17,19

104:10,16

108:7 111:18

119:4,7,17

120:9,10,13

124:1 138:18

138:19 139:1

IEER-graded

97:12

IEERs 82:17

illustrative

20:6

imagine 27:1

37:12 49:15

110:7

impact 10:1

14:3,7,14

36:6 71:4

73:4 77:7

139:21 145:9

impacts 64:19

64:21

implement

126:18

implemental

102:10

implementat...

15:13

implicit 73:3

implicitly

15:20 25:8

implying 94:6

importance

106:5

important

26:20 42:3

147:17

impose 22:19

imposition

52:16

inaudible 5:13

22:14 39:13

39:15 40:4

50:7,18 55:7

59:13 64:1,1

64:5,8,9,10

69:21 71:5

74:3 78:7

80:14 88:1

91:16 92:5

94:20 97:3

97:12,22

100:9 101:1

101:18 102:4

106:17

109:14,22

118:13

120:20

130:22

incentive

53:15 58:6

75:10

incentives

123:8

inches 127:19

inclined 61:20

include 24:21

83:9 84:5

98:21,21

117:10

included 10:14

10:18 25:3,8

72:18 84:6

111:5

includes 23:22

24:8 29:1
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

14

84:7

including

60:17

income 55:17

55:21

increase 14:11

15:18 24:5

27:3 50:9

55:21 73:5

103:9 104:10

108:1 120:9

120:10,11

128:16

increased

103:9 128:14

increases

110:16

120:22

128:13

increasing

32:17 103:13

increment

65:18,19

71:9

independent

74:12 121:17

individual

34:20

individuals 4:9

indoor 104:20

industry

139:16 140:2

infer 36:2 56:2

56:12

inference

27:13

inferring 56:20

influence 43:4

informal

133:16

information

9:18 18:21

29:4 56:15

66:2 124:2

130:5,11

132:12 133:1

133:15

inherently

92:11

initial 145:16

initially 101:17

input 14:2,2

inputs 129:10

insensitivity

140:6

inside 92:12

install 26:3

installation

10:22 11:2

13:21 17:1

72:7

installations

16:21 17:3

23:4,5,12

installed 27:19

60:11 65:7

instance 87:19

instead 15:21

46:19 62:11

62:19 138:21

141:16

integrate

109:22

interest 106:8

123:6,9

interested

109:21

116:16

153:11

interesting

46:11 143:21

interests

123:2

interrupt

106:12

into 6:18,20

7:5 13:13,22

14:3,13 15:3

15:16 16:20

16:21 17:1

28:5 33:10

33:11,11

38:15 44:17

52:17 55:3,4

55:6 58:20

59:1,11 65:6

74:22 80:5

92:1 93:20

96:2,15

102:22

108:22

112:11

115:15

116:17

119:22 123:3

125:17 126:6

introduce 7:2

12:17 125:12

125:15

intuitive 20:19

79:11

inverse 91:10

inversely 91:3

investment

66:19 73:18

isn't 38:4

48:17 53:14

59:22 62:5

109:21

138:14

issue 6:19

8:17 60:5,16

69:3,5 92:16

113:5 114:14

114:18 124:8

139:4 140:9

141:11,13

issues 61:14

137:8

item 98:5

102:2

items 13:9

iterations

147:2

J

J 2:17 3:9

James 2:3 5:6

January 76:17

Jeff 2:9 6:2

Jeremiah 5:11

6:1 151:16

151:19

jet 25:16

jibbing 137:21

Jill 2:13 4:22

38:21 48:12

49:10 68:21

Jim 7:9

job 139:2

Joe 21:20

101:22

Joel 24:21

John 2:6,15

4:11 5:4 7:4

13:5 54:18

75:1 81:15

81:16 101:16

John's 57:10

76:2 77:19

78:13 96:8

join 12:16

joined 5:13

12:18

jointly 29:6

judgment 86:5

jumps 129:1

June 145:9

148:13

151:22 152:1

K

K-6 68:19

Kahn 64:17

Karen 2:19

4:20

Katie 2:5 5:8

7:3 13:13

21:16 24:12

25:21 28:15

38:2 44:19

55:3 65:10

86:9 109:21

127:2,6

129:15

keep 13:10

62:7 83:3

92:1 119:12

122:12 149:6

key 16:10

kill 61:10

killed 61:8,18

kilowatt

108:12

121:22

kind 6:12 11:9

12:10 20:1

20:18 21:6

24:4,9 26:20

27:7,13

28:14 29:9

32:2 45:13

46:4 49:4

51:4 55:20

56:2 57:14

66:4,15

72:21 74:3

74:21 75:20

78:17 81:18

82:21 83:12

88:16 97:2

114:21

115:14

124:13 147:5

147:16

151:14

knew 11:20

58:18 60:8

know 6:12 7:7

7:19 8:12,16

8:17 10:1
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

15

12:5,8 16:6

17:14 18:18

18:22 19:19

21:7,10 22:5

23:16 26:19

27:22 28:1

29:2 31:13

31:15 34:17

35:18 38:5

39:7 40:8

43:3 45:12

46:19 47:10

47:10,12,15

48:20 49:3,4

51:12 53:14

56:3 58:15

59:2,9,12,19

60:1 61:16

61:17,22

62:13 63:21

67:3 68:20

69:2,14,18

69:19 70:5

70:13,15,18

71:1 72:22

73:7,11,15

73:19,20,22

74:7,9,11,13

74:21 75:6,9

76:13 81:20

82:5,9,15

83:19 84:8

84:14 85:2,2

85:3,4 87:15

87:16 88:15

90:12 91:13

93:22 94:21

95:3,4,6

96:11,11,19

96:20 97:3,4

97:6 98:6,10

98:13 99:1,6

100:4,7

101:3,17

102:14

103:11

104:12

105:16,18

108:9,11

110:8,10,14

110:18 113:7

113:12,13

114:13,15,17

114:22 115:1

115:21

116:12,15,16

116:17,20

117:16,17

118:17,20,20

118:22,22

119:13 122:1

124:9 125:4

125:6,11,15

127:8 128:5

128:5,6,13

133:7,19

135:11

138:11 139:4

139:8 140:10

140:16 141:4

141:15,19

142:8,10,22

143:13

145:12 146:4

147:5,9,16

148:12,14

149:12 151:7

151:8,11

knows 51:13

107:21

Kylie 1:22

153:3,17

L

L 2:10

L'Enfant 1:11

147:7

Lab 5:9

lacking 119:8

laid 123:18

landscape

134:8

large 22:21

28:10 57:17

96:2,3 105:8

105:9,14

110:4 121:5

130:13,14

131:1,2,3,8

131:14,14

larger 18:16

22:7 30:6

44:11 61:21

65:8 132:19

last 6:17 8:18

13:7 21:8

54:10 70:16

76:16 98:4,4

104:6 117:16

144:21 146:4

lasting 20:5

later 15:3

113:8

Lau 2:16 6:2

Laughing

89:15,17

Laughter

43:14,17

55:9 61:11

77:2,18

80:13 98:9

110:1 112:17

133:20

146:15

150:12

Lawrence 5:8

lawyer 58:17

LBNL 5:10

LCC 13:22

31:21 126:4

126:15,21

leading 118:11

leads 93:10

lease 48:20,20

48:20 49:7,8

51:1,6

leased 48:10

leasing 48:16

least 40:4

47:11 50:6

59:13 75:15

78:19 82:1

99:14 115:8

125:1

leaving 87:9

123:1 133:8

left 4:8 20:5

104:5 131:15

151:21

Lennox 5:4

less 35:14

38:17,20

56:1 61:20

62:11 67:16

79:10 85:5,5

91:4 94:15

99:16 101:3

102:3 106:6

106:7,7

121:21

letting 123:12

level 7:13

90:12,21

91:7 95:5

105:21

108:20

121:11,20

128:11

levels 9:19

79:10 82:5

82:11 85:13

88:20 89:4

90:18 92:4,9

93:21 94:21

95:16 103:8

107:22

108:22 109:3

109:5 111:4

121:18

125:13,14

145:6 151:4

lie 123:12

lieu 92:5 142:7

life 36:6 46:19

151:12

life-extending

73:17

lifetime 16:4

17:14,15

18:5 22:18

22:22 24:7,8

26:21 27:1,7

28:1,2 29:7,8

29:11 31:14

31:17,21

36:11 38:16

79:18,21

lifetimes 26:19

lift 47:9

light 12:3

34:16,17

lighter 12:4

lightly 150:9

like 6:6 7:6

9:17 10:11

10:19 13:7

13:16 18:19

20:15 22:6

32:8 35:20

44:20 45:6

49:13 51:22

54:1,8,11

56:14 62:9

62:10,12

69:6,6 70:5

70:17,20

74:8,19

75:15 76:1

84:19 88:16

88:19 90:22
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

16

95:17,21

104:3 113:20

125:2 126:20

128:19 129:6

131:4 134:6

134:6 135:6

137:21

139:17 140:1

143:17 147:3

147:4 148:15

150:14

likelihood 50:9

likely 31:15

73:20 76:6

109:2,14

likes 98:1

Likewise

128:16

limited 28:9

Linda 3:11 6:3

line 32:9,10,11

32:13,14,15

33:12,14,20

34:21 43:4

131:4,5

151:18

lines 13:7

34:15

lingering 37:7

listed 8:4

literally 48:13

58:7

literature

56:19,21

little 4:6 8:11

15:16 16:1,5

25:11 35:12

35:22 38:12

39:15 40:15

49:3 56:7,7

56:13,15

62:13 63:1

66:2 70:2

97:17,18,19

108:2 120:3

127:5 138:4

139:10,17,22

147:10

live 61:13

lo 59:1

load 8:7 12:3,4

95:1,2

140:17

142:13

loads 140:13

143:2

locked-box

124:16

long 17:15

22:17,20

26:7 29:8

36:10,22

37:7,9,18

41:18 98:7

105:17

142:15

long-term 54:2

longer 11:6

126:18

look 7:10

12:12 15:17

18:20 25:6

25:18 26:11

36:19 38:3,8

38:10,13

40:14 42:7

43:20 44:22

46:9 55:15

55:16 59:13

60:19 61:3

66:21 69:13

70:15,20

71:1 87:15

87:16 88:14

88:16 90:2

90:20,21,21

91:15,15,17

93:18,19

96:17 97:10

97:21 98:5

100:16 103:4

104:14

106:15,21

119:4 121:9

125:3,3

127:14

135:10

137:11,21

138:2 142:14

looked 132:13

137:16

141:22

looking 8:1,12

8:18 19:21

20:8,9,10

23:13 49:1

71:16,18

84:4 85:8

87:17,21,22

92:1 93:6

100:3,12

102:17,17

103:12 104:2

111:17 112:8

118:16,20

119:1 123:21

137:20

144:15,18

149:17

looks 20:15

21:3 24:4

35:20 98:1

looms 114:21

loosey-goos...

113:16

Lord 141:21

loss 58:8,10

lot 30:1,2 31:6

43:3 48:10

51:1 53:19

57:4,21

72:13 75:10

76:13,21

87:21 104:5

106:22

112:10 117:6

117:8 122:12

132:14

139:14,16,18

139:19

146:17

150:10

lots 126:16

loud 6:7,13

59:3 78:15

Louis 3:4 11:3

12:22 19:3

21:8 27:17

32:1 38:2

50:13 61:22

62:16 63:18

63:19 66:4

76:2 92:2

131:22

137:10,11

145:21 150:6

love 133:19

low 25:16 29:9

52:14 58:2

107:16

108:20,22

109:3,5

115:11 133:3

133:3,4

142:15 143:9

lower 8:10,14

11:6,8 31:5

31:11 56:7

65:19 67:13

94:13 95:2

105:21 112:3

132:4 134:7

140:20,21

141:1,21

143:2

lower-tempe...

140:12

lowering

140:16

lunch 149:9,20

M

ma'am 77:6

machine

106:10

made 6:15

76:8,20 90:5

123:14

main 4:7 52:11

152:3

maintain 67:8

major 73:17

93:3

makes 53:6

61:20 96:10

118:22

121:10

making 53:2

56:1 67:1

69:4 73:2

78:5 101:3

104:14

118:15

119:16 123:6

135:7 144:20

MALE5:12,19

6:2 13:15

33:7 36:19

45:3,9 48:18

55:10 57:6

58:16 64:9

64:20 65:17

66:13 67:12

67:16 68:5

68:10,19

69:9,17 71:7

71:14,18,21

72:1,3 74:18

76:8,21 79:1

80:11,14,18
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

17

81:1,2,7 85:7

85:15 87:12

89:1,6,8,18

90:19 92:8

92:18,21

94:7,17,19

96:1 106:2

106:19,21

107:10

108:17

113:22 114:5

115:18 116:9

117:18 127:9

127:14,17

129:9,13

131:11

133:10,21,22

134:1,4,22

135:2 136:12

136:14,18

139:13

142:20

146:19

147:21

149:22 150:4

151:20 152:2

mall 24:17

57:22,22

manufacturer

12:11 14:3

68:22 71:3

91:6 98:4

manufacture...

11:10,20

75:10 91:22

93:18 118:14

many 14:18

36:2 45:5

59:21 128:19

128:20

map 35:12

58:19 88:4

91:15 112:8

118:18,19

119:1 142:17

mapping 8:2

82:2 93:9

margin 52:14

marginal

92:15

mark 3:5 13:1

46:20 62:1

62:15 93:10

133:15

Mark's 75:18

market 23:6

26:12 27:6

27:10,21

28:6,9 32:17

33:10,13,15

33:16,19

34:1 37:17

37:21 44:10

44:12 50:11

50:14 53:10

64:6,9 75:15

86:22,22

110:5,5,6

117:14 123:7

marketing

64:8

marketplace

115:12

markets 28:6

Marshall 2:14

4:16 44:19

90:1 115:2,6

115:10,21

122:16

123:13

Marshall's

123:2

match 15:9

23:21 29:15

31:9

matched

142:13

matches 12:13

matching 22:1

24:7 29:16

material 59:10

matter 7:6

9:13 41:1,8

44:16 53:3

135:18

max 22:10,12

36:6 40:12

108:10

maximum

22:13 36:12

36:13 37:1

may 1:5 7:5

10:9 14:10

24:14 37:20

46:22 47:1

51:16 54:2

60:3,22

61:12 64:18

72:10,10

74:11,11,17

74:18 96:6

101:1 102:1

113:11

117:17

132:20

145:17

153:12

maybe 10:3

28:5 41:16

41:17 47:18

47:18 51:12

56:7,7 62:9

62:11,12

64:19 65:2

70:18 88:20

90:17 92:15

99:20 100:22

105:16,16

107:20 109:4

115:16 116:6

117:10,12,15

118:22 139:1

139:11

144:10

145:22

McCabe 2:17

5:2,2

McCrudden

2:18 5:12,16

5:20 9:9

136:21

mean 8:13

9:19 10:4

16:2 17:14

17:14 19:4,8

19:9,11 20:8

25:6 37:5,11

37:15 38:8

39:5,13,17

39:19 40:15

40:18 41:17

42:3,14,15

46:16 47:21

59:9 60:15

60:17,18

65:22 66:8

67:21 71:6,7

72:15 73:20

74:21 77:21

78:22 79:12

91:17 96:9

97:2,22

98:10 99:5

101:15

104:19

105:17

106:11,14,21

108:3 109:7

110:15 111:1

111:2,9

114:13,18

115:13

116:15

120:13

122:11,12

124:12,14,22

126:18 129:7

135:11 137:7

139:15

141:18 142:8

146:3 149:7

151:9

Meaning 92:6

means 15:17

25:12 29:9

31:17 85:1

103:17 135:3

meant 66:16

99:11

measure 55:17

134:2

measured

134:6

measureme...

134:12

meat 41:8

mechanical

21:14 41:22

50:15 142:6

142:6

mechanics

16:2

median 18:5

20:5,20

medium 121:5

meet 28:4

42:13

meeting 1:1

142:11 144:3

144:16 145:7

145:22 146:7

147:6 148:2

151:3,3,6

meetings

84:15 132:16

Meg 3:7 4:12

members 4:8

6:22 12:16

memory 21:18

mentioned
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

18

30:10 98:13

101:16

method 65:6

metric 83:6

metrics 84:20

metropolitan

57:19

Meyers 2:19

4:20,20

21:22

MIA 71:2 126:7

145:13,16

mic 6:13

Michael 2:17

3:3 5:2

mics 6:6,10

mid-Atlantic

107:19

middle 46:10

62:10 132:1

midrange

133:2

might 14:1

22:11 31:21

38:22 42:20

47:16,17

48:11,11,12

58:4 59:18

59:19 60:8

63:14 67:7

70:17 76:4

92:7 93:6

99:21 114:21

145:12

mightily 58:12

Mike 2:21 4:13

6:3

military 39:21

million 58:22

79:14,15

min 22:10,12

mind 7:22

13:10 46:9

64:13 137:8

minds 82:1

mine 105:3

minimal

121:19

minimum 64:5

113:22

Minnesota

107:9

minor 27:7

minus 56:4,5,7

Mislak 2:20

12:19,19

missed 22:11

28:16 65:12

missing 11:1

102:1

misspoke

135:17

misundersto...

139:12

mitigate 95:4

mitigated

101:1

Mitsubishi

4:19 36:5

40:11

mode 21:12

model 14:4,17

15:12 16:3

16:18 22:16

24:18 25:16

26:16 29:2

31:3 34:10

36:11 45:14

72:20,21,22

73:4 75:9

129:15

modeling

16:10

models 125:6

139:3

modest 103:8

Monday

144:16 145:9

152:1

money 56:1

more 6:22 8:18

15:3,14,16

20:22 25:16

27:4 30:3

38:12 39:19

40:11,15

42:16 43:5

52:19 53:14

53:19,20

56:19 62:4

62:11 63:1

63:13,16

68:6,19

70:16,22

71:2 73:20

80:4 84:12

85:16 88:19

91:9 93:13

95:17 98:22

99:20 100:11

100:13,19,20

101:2,5,8

102:2 103:16

106:22

107:12,18

117:18 127:5

131:10

132:20 135:9

136:14 137:6

138:4 139:5

140:19

142:15

morning 4:2

5:14,16

mortality

21:17

most 26:19

27:16 82:5

95:16 106:16

108:3 126:4

133:17

mostly 141:21

motion 90:1

motivated

53:20

motivator

60:10

move 18:14

37:15 41:11

48:13 49:8

49:14,16

50:1,3,22

51:15,20

54:1 62:12

62:13 78:20

97:5 112:8

126:19 129:3

movement

94:18

moves 49:12

moving 10:10

53:7 92:5

137:7

much 10:1

15:14 21:10

23:10 27:13

29:10 30:6

33:13 43:8

45:13 62:14

63:15 74:22

78:12 79:10

82:14 92:14

95:1 106:6

107:21

116:14 122:4

137:18,21

multiple 72:14

multiples 70:4

multiplying

23:14

N

N 2:1 3:1 4:1

nail 49:2

name 13:8

national 14:2

14:13 120:1

120:3,19

142:22 145:8

nature 110:5

Navigant 4:9

5:6,7 82:4

129:15

necessarily

19:17 23:17

83:7,21

104:15 133:4

NEEA 11:3

12:22 19:3

21:9 27:17

32:1 132:1

137:11

need 6:20 10:9

16:6 26:8

27:4 40:9

45:12 47:9

47:10,11,17

57:22 86:3

94:2 97:4

99:9,21

101:20

115:18

116:13 137:7

139:5 147:17

148:1,4

150:9

negative 24:15

negotiate

51:19 89:4

118:12

negotiated

118:7

negotiating

93:16 122:14

negotiation

89:5 110:21

124:4,6

neither 58:4

net 48:20,20

126:9,9
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

19

never 80:17

Nevermind

138:16

new 14:20

15:21 16:17

16:19,21,21

17:1 23:4,5,6

23:7,8 28:5,6

28:6 30:2

32:11,15,15

32:20,22

33:10,11,18

34:4 41:14

41:15 42:11

42:13 43:2

44:11,13

50:10 51:8

51:15 52:1

54:12,16

60:4,10 62:3

63:5 65:9

67:13,16

68:15 72:7

73:5,9 75:11

75:14,15,16

76:17 77:15

80:6,8 92:12

130:9 144:17

newer 54:5

next 42:12

51:15 53:21

96:9,12

113:9,18

117:9,12

118:3 123:4

123:10

124:18

125:18

126:12,17,19

128:2 129:9

144:9 147:13

148:2 151:3

151:22

NIA 126:6

nice 98:7

146:3 150:1

Nicholas 2:20

Nick 12:19

81:15 82:21

140:19

night 8:19

146:7

nine 76:5

nine-and-a-h...

119:19

nobody 89:20

95:19

nobody's

126:10

146:18,20

151:21

noise 30:10

none 8:21 57:1

57:2 86:20

Nope 95:9

129:18

NOPR 14:22

15:1 24:9

79:9 82:10

85:11,12

86:4 88:13

89:12 101:17

101:18 103:7

107:21

nor 58:4 153:8

153:10

normal 40:7

40:21,22

147:7

normalized

19:12

north 107:15

107:18

northern

106:20

note 11:4

123:14

noted 133:22

notes 95:20

nothing 18:22

57:8 95:21

147:21 149:7

noticed 8:18

22:14

nox 108:20,22

109:3,5

112:1,2

115:18

NRDC 4:12

number 17:11

27:18 28:17

33:21 35:17

36:6,17 38:5

38:13,18

40:16,17

44:3,4,22

46:15,17

47:1 52:21

62:9,12

66:18 67:2

71:8 72:10

72:11 110:16

110:17

117:21 122:6

122:20,21

128:2,3

130:14 132:6

132:9,9,10

133:6,8

134:7 137:22

138:6,14,20

141:8,14

144:20

numbers 21:4

40:14 44:2

44:21,21

45:6,12

46:11 63:14

70:1,20 71:1

82:22,22

83:1 88:20

118:21

122:19 126:6

129:20,21

130:7,9

132:2,20

137:20 138:3

141:5 143:16

145:10

149:17

numerical

26:20

O

O 4:1

o'clock 146:7

objections

134:13

objects 89:21

obsoleted

68:14

obvious 36:3

obviously 70:2

78:16 82:8

85:2

occur 14:1,9

occurring 24:5

occurs 17:2

59:16

October 112:6

OEM 69:18,19

70:8

OEMs 59:13

69:21

off 4:10 11:21

22:17 37:2

39:7,20,21

40:13 41:20

41:20 53:18

53:19 54:10

59:9 84:8

87:13 89:18

Off-the-record

136:20 137:4

152:5

offer 151:19

offices 30:2

official 122:7

offset 60:18

often 28:2

oh 6:11 20:17

22:15 39:12

43:13,18

80:11 90:10

96:18 113:18

115:16

142:19 150:3

150:5 151:6

okay 4:2 5:14

6:4,12 7:13

7:21 13:4,12

13:18 15:18

19:21 20:17

27:22 28:12

33:2 35:5

38:20 39:12

49:5 67:11

76:9 79:2,16

81:16,18

86:7,15

91:20 94:3

94:19 95:14

96:18 97:20

99:12,15

100:1,6

116:19

117:22

121:14 124:7

124:18,20

125:3,7

127:17

129:18 133:8

134:18 136:9

136:17,19

138:12

142:19

143:22 144:4

145:11

147:14 148:8

149:3 150:11
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

20

151:15,16,21

151:21

old 29:21

33:11 49:11

51:22 52:2

62:7 69:3,4

76:5 78:3

older 34:5,5

39:22 63:16

68:14

once 42:5

118:17

one's 52:1

One-and-a-h...

143:20

one-to-one

35:12

ones 32:21

40:2 51:3

59:2 63:16

112:4 145:3

onwards 42:16

open 13:9

139:8,9

operating

13:20 117:19

117:20

operation

141:15

opinion 132:8

opportunities

123:8

opportunity

123:5

opposed

30:10 63:5

opposite

107:12

optimization

103:19,20

optimize

111:18 116:3

Optimizes

116:4

option 92:7

orange 44:10

order 10:5

28:3 82:16

109:21 141:5

organization

70:8

original 69:19

133:6 135:5

ought 91:19

ours 125:1

outdoor 83:17

outlay 53:17

64:13

outlays 53:20

outlook

108:18

output 31:2

outside 12:6

149:2 150:1

outsider

103:22

over 7:2 13:5

13:13 14:6

17:2,20 21:2

26:1,13,21

27:7 33:16

34:13 38:4

40:15 42:12

46:1 49:8

55:18,19

64:15 81:16

90:14,20

92:5 94:15

126:18 139:5

149:9

overall 14:14

15:4,22 27:5

106:22

134:10 144:7

overestimated

31:16,17,18

own 70:8

135:7

owner 24:22

48:11,17,18

51:13 53:13

53:13 59:19

61:16 67:1

owner's 51:4

owns 50:3

53:4,5 67:1

P

P 2:1,1 3:1,1

4:1 25:22,22

26:1,1

Pacific 4:16

pack 104:22

105:2 106:7

package 47:2

63:9 69:16

83:7 86:11

96:10 97:3

98:15 99:13

99:22 107:6

packaged

27:12,14

28:21,22

30:15,17

87:10

packaging

84:12

page 25:22

77:6 127:14

paid 51:11

pale 33:14,15

parameter

16:9,10 18:9

18:9,10,11

18:12,15

19:2 20:20

21:2 23:6

54:22 65:8

66:1,3

parameterize

15:6

parameters

18:1,8,21

20:14,14,16

21:6 22:4

27:8 29:15

31:19 38:11

65:15 76:3

pardon 139:15

parenthesis

131:14

part 55:13

87:11 89:4

102:9 128:2

129:19

151:12

particular

57:18 136:1

particularly

24:17 79:4

parties 153:8

parties' 153:9

partly 36:1

parts 24:16

140:3

pass 81:16

past 35:9 38:3

38:14 64:11

path 122:19

123:18

Paul 2:10 4:19

36:5 40:11

Paul's 38:22

pay 15:20

48:14 49:6

payback 66:5

66:10

paying 46:18

48:16

PDF 19:7

peak 40:3 41:6

115:7,22

penalties

102:17 129:5

penetration

28:10

people 4:5

6:19 16:2

21:17 23:22

37:21 47:11

50:19 53:2

56:1 58:15

60:9 61:20

64:4,5 73:2

73:10 126:4

128:19,20,21

151:14

per 28:3 55:17

102:5 108:12

121:22,22

136:2 138:5

143:15

percent 8:7,11

8:22 9:2,4,6

9:8 10:14

11:13,18

18:4 19:20

20:9 23:17

37:5 38:14

38:17,20

39:6,16 41:7

46:14,15,16

46:22 47:1,3

47:4,8,22

48:1,3,6,9

49:9 52:10

52:17,19

53:1,9 54:18

57:12 60:1,8

62:3,6,9,10

62:11,11,21

63:3,4,4

64:16 67:13

71:8,11,13

72:9 73:9

75:21 79:9

85:5,5,6

86:21,22

95:2 100:11

100:12 105:2
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

21

117:15,20

119:20 128:5

128:6,6,8

129:2 139:12

140:15 141:2

141:5 143:2

143:17,20

percent's 71:8

percentage

9:16 45:18

59:8,14

62:18 65:19

93:19 99:6

128:12

perfect 101:11

performance

94:12 102:3

102:7 104:1

140:11

perhaps 30:3

82:15 124:3

132:7

period 14:7

23:10 32:17

42:19 43:9

45:10 46:2

108:18

periods 56:1

person 51:14

64:3,3,14

66:12 136:16

personally

106:7 133:8

147:9 149:15

perspective

93:17 100:5

116:13 125:1

Pete 2:4 5:5

PG&E 44:20

115:6 123:14

Ph.D 3:2

phase 60:18

61:4 82:10

88:13

phased 76:17

phone 7:10

physical 19:5

pick 6:9,9

93:15 109:4

picks 24:4

picture 14:17

16:11 17:13

45:14

piece 6:17

33:19 39:2

69:17

pissed 54:10

place 11:18

107:4

places 39:19

plan 129:14

145:5

play 101:4

120:16

played 146:2

Plaza 1:11

please 13:7

25:21 104:17

plot 22:15

plots 26:17

129:12

plotted 44:2

plotting 121:2

plus 40:7

96:21 111:8

145:3

point 20:6

29:14 37:14

39:2 40:10

41:6 52:4

56:4 64:2

74:1 75:18

78:11 84:18

90:11,12,15

91:1,11,18

94:1 107:3

117:21

118:14 133:9

137:6 144:5

144:9 145:1

149:6

pointed

142:12

points 16:6

43:6 95:2

poll 63:8

polls 62:17

poorly 121:3

population

14:18,19

15:19 141:3

populations

28:7

portion 102:9

134:8

Portland

107:15

positions 96:5

positive 21:18

46:20

Possible

106:19

possibly 11:14

134:9 147:20

post 14:12

potential

27:21 28:9

123:9 126:16

potentially

91:15 101:8

132:18

pouring 150:2

150:4

power 90:5,9,9

90:14 93:19

93:20 138:10

powers 128:10

practical 32:5

practically

19:8 22:22

125:18

practices

61:12

precise 27:16

29:5

predicted 28:5

preliminary

145:13

prepare 50:10

prepared

81:19 97:1

preparing

146:4

presentation

81:19 87:18

127:11

presenting

145:8

press 110:2

pressure

127:18 128:8

128:14

129:22

132:10 133:2

134:20

135:14,21

136:4 138:1

138:7 140:2

presumably

144:19

pretty 5:19

12:2 17:16

23:10 29:17

30:20 33:13

33:14 57:9

60:5 105:17

122:9 123:11

137:1,18

previous

11:17 132:15

price 14:10

15:8,15,18

15:20 24:3,5

25:10,14

26:1 43:22

44:1,16

48:14 54:20

55:1,3,7,21

56:3,11,12

56:15,21

73:4,6,9

price-driven

51:17

prior 84:4

pro 14:15

probability

17:9,18,19

23:14 38:3

probably 28:4

28:15 40:5

50:4,6,8

51:21 53:10

54:18 58:12

62:5 63:20

68:7,9,10,11

87:4 98:18

98:19 100:18

101:13 105:1

105:2 107:4

107:4 114:10

115:22 132:6

133:17

143:10,13

148:1

problem 5:22

15:4 51:16

75:8 131:20

proceeding

147:13

proceedings

153:5

process 25:18

26:15 27:9

72:20 97:5

112:11

116:14

produce 12:6

product 14:16

33:10 45:19

84:6 115:12
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

22

115:15

production

77:10

products 47:2

57:5 90:22

91:18 92:4

104:2 116:21

profit 52:14

progress 6:16

Project 12:21

projecting

31:9

projection

23:7 29:17

42:17

promise

145:13

147:15

properly 8:15

property

117:21

proportional

26:21 27:5,6

91:3

proposal

123:3 126:22

propose

124:14,15

proposed

108:15 120:1

121:21

124:10

prostrate

78:19

provide 132:8

providing

127:6,7

proxy 57:16

ptacks 30:4,19

public 151:18

151:19

pump 87:20

94:16 95:7

95:15 96:2

101:2 102:2

104:11,12,21

105:1 106:6

106:15 107:6

107:7,8

111:11,14

116:3,18,22

117:13

119:18

pumps 22:8

29:2 30:20

30:21 82:18

82:19 86:11

86:14 87:10

88:18 89:10

97:15,16,17

100:1,4,11

101:1 108:1

109:1 110:13

111:5 115:8

115:21

117:17

119:15,20,22

122:3

pun 139:15

purely 24:5

purge 47:11

purposes 31:8

push 29:12

94:9 95:5

115:15

pushed 38:15

pushing 94:22

94:22

put 22:22 29:3

44:15,16,22

45:6 58:17

60:2 83:22

84:15 87:18

96:15,21

98:19 115:14

115:17

116:18

124:10,12

131:13

135:12 140:2

141:6

putting 32:18

60:3 116:15

123:3 148:6

Q

quadrants

106:20

quads 122:2

qualified

133:18

quality 15:5

59:20 60:6,7

114:3

quantity 28:4

quarter 30:1

question 7:22

11:9 21:8

29:19 30:8

46:3,9 47:21

48:2 54:18

55:2 56:18

58:18 62:16

64:13 66:15

67:19 72:13

78:20 84:3

86:2,8 91:13

92:3 93:8

94:8,20 95:4

96:9 102:11

103:21

110:15

113:14 114:9

115:4 118:8

125:11

135:15

questions

62:2 80:4

106:1,5

137:6 147:10

151:8

quick 144:19

quickly 111:2

quiet 150:22

quit 61:17

quite 18:5

29:15 100:15

100:21 127:3

quorum 4:4

R

R 2:1 3:1 4:1

R-22 76:5,7

77:10,12,21

78:9

R-410 76:14

R-squared

103:10

rain 150:2,8

rained 150:14

raining 144:13

149:1 150:3

rains 150:8

raise 138:18

raised 46:4

67:18

range 56:2

109:6 132:1

rate 23:20 24:8

rather 30:13

55:20 103:19

104:2 124:4

ratio 104:21

ratioed 128:17

138:20

rational 53:10

Ray 2:21 6:3

reading 20:7

ready 80:8

91:20 98:6

real 30:7 39:14

47:21 64:13

77:7 83:14

123:9 134:2

134:11 139:2

141:6 150:22

realistic 134:9

reality 19:17

126:9

realize 69:14

95:19

really 6:15 7:6

8:14 9:12,18

10:18 15:6

16:5 19:11

22:5 24:11

25:6 27:8

28:17 30:12

31:12 36:1,3

37:4,16

39:13 41:6

44:20 46:4

51:17 52:10

52:16 53:1,7

53:8 54:3,13

54:16,21

56:6,8 63:15

71:1,4 72:19

73:1 76:19

82:14 99:9

107:3 122:8

123:16

125:11

135:10

139:21 140:6

140:10 141:8

142:9 150:1

reason 26:7

37:22 61:17

113:6 122:17

123:1,11

reasonable

38:13 42:17

72:10 88:2,9

98:11 127:2

134:10,10

135:6,6,15

reasonably

26:8

reasons
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

23

131:19 140:5

recalculate

131:16,19

recall 120:6

received 35:4

recent 108:3

Recess 81:13

recollection

88:10,18

recommendi...

110:8

record 12:18

78:6 81:14

89:19 153:6

recover 81:21

recovery 43:9

recs 118:4

red 25:12

32:15,21,22

33:12,20

34:15

redesign

104:1,7

118:16,17

redesigned

96:6

redesigns

103:19

redo 25:2

reduce 94:14

reduction

46:14

reference

52:18

reflecting 7:7

reflects 129:7

129:11

refrigeration

116:3

refrigerator

122:5

regardless

64:8

regime 140:12

regulation

109:17

regulatory

112:12

reinforcing

61:5

reiterating

123:22

related 19:10

relation 19:16

relationship

66:22 119:17

relative 25:13

25:14 45:16

112:20,21

118:2 143:16

153:7,9

relatively 90:6

106:9 144:19

relevant 9:19

reliable 126:20

133:18

reliably 126:12

remember

29:20 61:6

91:3 127:9

131:13

remind 13:6

88:3,4 99:22

104:17

renegotiate

51:6

renovate 25:2

50:5

renovation

33:3 93:3

rental 58:8,10

renter 48:11

renting 58:2

repair 15:21

23:20 24:9

46:5 50:17

53:7,21 54:8

58:4 66:7

67:2 73:11

73:17 75:13

77:8,11

repair/replace

15:2 64:22

repaired 23:18

repairing 24:1

46:15

repairs 24:4

52:19 53:15

54:4

repeats 23:3

replace 25:3

28:1 42:15

42:15 50:5

58:5 61:20

62:3,18 66:7

67:2,6 68:16

77:8,17

replaced 7:21

17:5 23:17

27:5 50:9

replacement

17:3,7 23:12

25:5 33:15

33:19 34:9

44:17 46:5,6

46:16 48:4,5

49:7 57:13

68:3,5 71:13

72:4 73:14

74:6 92:22

replacements

23:5 32:21

44:8 128:4,7

replacing 34:5

34:6 47:8

62:19 63:6

135:10

report 7:16

reporter 78:7

153:1,4

represent

131:7

representati...

25:17 141:14

representative

97:1 98:16

139:3

representing

139:2

requirements

114:5

requires 92:12

research

96:11

residential

30:16 57:5

59:6 60:17

68:17 113:2

113:2

resistance

86:20 102:4

resolution

114:18

resolve 114:14

114:19

resolved 82:14

responded

133:18

response

133:21

responsibility

51:5 151:14

responsible

48:15 51:3

rest 67:13

restructure

126:15

results 108:16

126:4,21

145:9,16

retail 57:19

retire 16:19

retiring 41:7

retrospect

96:21,22

return 63:22

66:19 139:17

reverting

15:13

review 14:5

revisions

144:18

rewrite 21:3

Rheem 4:20

rid 115:17

right 5:20 9:22

10:6 20:7,19

26:22 28:8

28:18,20

29:15 30:21

34:18,19

38:7 39:4

40:9 41:21

42:3,4,22

43:6,7 45:2

46:5,7,10,10

46:16 49:3

52:9,12,20

52:22 53:11

56:5 59:20

60:22 62:2

64:14 65:10

65:15 68:18

68:20 73:3

75:11 76:15

77:10,22

80:10 81:1

84:22 85:15

85:15,16

86:9 90:19

91:12 94:19

97:7,13,15

97:18 99:18

100:8 105:20

108:2 109:5

109:6 110:3

110:22 112:3

112:4 117:6

117:17 119:7

119:9,16,18
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

24

121:5,13,22

122:20 123:1

124:22 125:7

127:12

128:22

129:11,13,22

135:19 137:5

138:12,16

142:2,3,9

143:4,7,8

144:9,10,22

145:2 147:6

148:10,20,21

151:12

road 112:8

118:18,19

119:1

Robert 3:9

roll 80:6

roof 25:2,3

47:16,17,18

93:4,4

rooftop 37:12

37:12 44:15

70:9 83:4,4,4

83:4,8 84:16

92:7,18 93:6

rooftops 84:5

86:12

room 4:7 6:7

12:16 13:7

30:19 58:15

79:1 89:13

148:18,19

149:4

roomier 30:15

Rosenquist

2:22 5:10,10

8:20 9:6,11

10:7 11:16

35:13 57:4

73:12 74:7

83:10 84:7

108:2,6

110:2 111:7

119:15 120:7

120:10,13,18

121:1,7,15

121:20

145:12,19

rough 137:1

roughly 19:19

76:4 79:8

119:19 128:6

143:2

round 104:6

123:4,10

126:13

132:15

row 125:19

RTU 51:15

92:13,16

RTUs 30:5,6,9

rule 25:19

27:14 35:4,4

82:9 103:18

108:15

112:11,19

117:9 120:1

rulemaking

124:16

run 7:17 8:6,8

106:18

running 8:10

8:13 106:16

106:22

rust 37:14

Rusty 3:6 4:14

35:18 46:22

S

S 1:22 2:1 3:1

4:1 153:3,17

SAB 8:13

Sachs 3:2 4:21

4:21 20:3,10

20:17 21:16

21:20 24:12

25:21,22

26:4 29:19

29:20 30:18

31:1 41:3

43:10,15

49:10,14,20

50:11 57:15

58:4,8,11

59:6 61:5,14

71:10 72:4,7

72:9 74:10

74:13 76:1

76:10,12,16

77:5,19 78:7

78:11,19

79:3,8,14,21

80:2 81:8

86:18 87:3,5

87:9 88:3,8

88:22 89:2

89:13,20

91:20 92:11

92:15 101:22

102:9,16,20

103:15

104:17,21

105:3,15

106:4,13

107:8 122:3

122:8,17,22

123:21

124:21 127:1

129:6 147:18

150:19,22

safe 118:4

sale 39:4

sales 54:3,4

119:4

salesman 66:8

salespeople

75:12

salesperson

63:21

salon 49:2,22

49:22 51:14

53:4,6

same 20:20

21:3 31:19

31:20 34:7,8

34:9,11

51:16,22

55:21 62:2,5

65:7,21 66:3

67:10,11,19

69:15 70:7

70:10,10

74:14 77:5

97:14 112:9

112:22

119:13 132:6

136:4 138:10

Sami 3:14 5:1

40:3 41:5

60:12 69:12

74:1

sample 125:20

satisfied 60:3

saturated

33:14,16,22

saturation

15:22 16:8,9

17:2 23:6,9,9

26:13 27:6

27:18 28:13

28:16 29:7,9

29:12 30:13

32:17

saturations

27:10 31:16

SAV8:4,6,10

94:8,11 95:1

save 97:22

122:4 131:21

139:12

saving 101:7

savings 101:9

107:22 108:7

119:22 120:1

120:3,8,19

121:6,7,19

139:19 140:4

143:6,16

145:10

say 7:19 9:22

10:11 15:4

15:18 25:10

30:15 42:7

51:10 53:9

53:14,20

55:20 56:17

58:7 61:15

63:20 66:9

66:10 67:19

68:10,16

71:1 73:12

73:19 74:8

75:13 78:1,3

80:17 96:12

98:7 100:11

101:13

107:21

108:19

112:15

113:17

116:19 117:5

119:4,12

128:5,6

134:11 141:8

147:16 148:6

150:20

saying 21:1

31:13,14

38:6,22 40:9

40:19 46:10

49:11 56:14

56:20 57:10

61:6 64:15

66:9 69:22

70:13 71:12

77:4,12 83:6

85:21 90:10

91:8 101:11
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

25

101:18 102:1

110:11 112:5

112:14 113:9

114:21

115:13

117:21 119:5

121:18

135:16 147:4

says 20:2 34:2

104:5 133:11

scale 18:9,11

18:12,13

21:2 85:4,21

91:14 101:4

scaled 106:5

scenario 74:3

134:2

schedule

144:8,15

schematic

45:17

scheme

112:12

screw 147:10

SE 32:15

second 14:11

24:15 52:5

58:18 90:1

109:21 115:7

section 44:11

sector 49:11

56:16

see 12:12,13

17:12 18:2

25:18 30:9

31:11 35:5,6

38:21 41:14

42:17 43:8

45:15,17

49:5 52:2

55:17,22

64:1,7 67:2,3

74:20 75:4

78:18 87:6

90:10 91:16

93:21 96:4

97:19 98:1

114:9,19

115:22

136:17 137:6

137:22 138:3

138:6 144:17

151:22

seeing 53:1

103:19

138:17

seen 145:4

segment 37:21

select 100:8

sell 54:12

66:11 75:11

75:15

selling 54:13

semi-famous

62:17

send 96:11

98:6 124:5

147:18

sense 16:2

20:19 26:18

53:6,8 63:12

63:13 79:11

96:10 99:6

103:22

116:20

118:22

121:10,13

132:11

sensitive 15:7

78:18

sensitivity

70:19 75:2

75:22 76:22

78:17 80:5

80:15 117:3

119:12 143:7

separate 16:20

24:10 30:21

58:20 74:14

series 26:7

84:15

seriously

146:16

service 54:11

59:4,11,13

59:20,22

60:6,8 61:15

69:14,19

70:8

set 7:16 8:6

12:3 22:13

36:12 85:13

130:16

set-up 41:19

sets 28:2

settle 65:5

settled 7:2

seven-and-a...

8:21 9:20

35:21 36:15

37:13 46:13

46:20 47:18

49:4 63:9

65:14 71:10

71:19 73:13

74:7,15,16

111:7 130:2

130:8 132:5

132:9 134:22

several 10:5

shaded 70:2

shakes 71:4

shall 58:7

shape 18:9,10

18:11,14,15

18:21 19:2,2

19:15 20:20

21:22 22:4

37:20 38:7

41:22

shapes 19:15

142:21

share 44:10

she's 76:15

sheet 117:10

123:4

sheets 55:18

151:17

Shepherd 1:22

153:3,17

shift 30:5,5

78:9 103:17

shifted 51:5

ship 69:18

70:7,9

shipment 40:1

69:13 70:3

80:4 84:3

86:10

shipments

6:18,21 7:3

13:13,18,19

13:22 14:2,4

14:6,8,10,17

14:20 15:15

16:3,10,18

16:20 22:16

23:11,21

24:3,7 25:7,8

25:11,13,20

26:12,15,21

27:3,5 28:3

29:16,17

31:4,5,11,21

32:11 33:21

34:13,14

41:15,15

43:22 44:2,5

44:9 45:15

45:22 46:1

46:14 56:11

58:20,22

59:5 65:9

71:3 78:15

79:9,16

80:22 83:16

83:18 98:20

99:3 119:16

119:20 126:6

145:3

shipped 14:12

shipping 83:9

short 29:8

Shorthand

153:3

shot 62:21

should 8:12

10:3 40:11

41:6,11

82:14,16

90:13,17

100:12 104:6

107:20

110:16 117:3

117:6,12

118:13

125:14 128:3

131:14

138:20,21

144:2 151:2

shouldn't

31:15 79:19

shove 115:16

show 20:15

21:5 70:13

70:14 129:17

134:19,19

136:6 139:19

140:1

showed 42:2

129:12

shower 150:14

showing 13:19

33:21 44:5

141:11

shows 3:3

4:13,13 79:8

shrinks 145:1

side 40:8

50:17 93:18
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

26

100:19,19,20

103:12 108:8

108:13

119:21 120:4

120:5 127:18

sides 109:16

Sienna 34:17

sight 13:6

signal 31:9

signals 103:22

significant

24:16 40:15

65:13

significantly

69:2

similar 25:17

88:19 108:14

108:16

111:15

simple 66:5

146:1

simpler 15:14

simplify 72:21

simulated

140:9 141:19

141:20

simulation

140:10

simulations

140:8

simultaneous

33:8 41:4

55:12 66:18

67:8,12,14

68:13 69:5

69:10 77:17

78:6,9,13

80:7,12,16

81:12 87:1

89:19 90:16

93:1,5 105:4

107:5 113:22

114:2 116:10

120:15 121:2

135:3,4

136:15 137:1

137:3 143:18

147:22

simultaneou...

73:21

since 29:16

45:11 66:2

76:16 82:6

100:18

102:13

105:10 144:3

single 47:2

60:18 98:15

single-digit

140:4

sit 58:1,7

site 68:17

sites 59:7

situation 75:9

75:19 134:7

six 113:8

size 27:15

47:14 62:22

74:14 115:9

116:3 118:2

130:15

132:19

135:18

sizing 136:3

skinnier 18:17

skip 47:9

sleep 146:10

slept 6:19

slice 44:10

slide 42:1

64:12 65:12

71:17,19

127:9 131:9

137:13,14,15

144:22

slides 8:2 79:4

137:12 146:1

146:5

slightly 78:20

90:8

SMAC 62:15

SMACNA13:1

small 15:7

22:6 23:11

30:20 37:21

38:18 40:17

44:9 59:21

105:8 106:9

108:9 121:4

121:8 122:9

122:10

130:12 131:1

132:5

smaller 18:15

57:17 72:11

72:12,14

105:6,7

106:19

144:21 145:5

smart 53:2

61:15

smarter 89:14

Smithsonian

149:22

smooth 31:9

129:4

soaked 150:13

solely 59:5

solution

115:18

some 6:7,7,10

8:3,9,18,21

10:3 18:18

18:21 23:17

23:22 27:13

31:2 35:5,6

37:1 39:2,18

39:22 45:12

52:22 56:21

57:4 59:12

60:22 62:6,9

62:12 64:4,5

67:3,4 69:4

69:21 70:1

72:14 79:11

81:21,21

82:4,15

84:18,19

86:4 87:17

90:2,11,12

91:18 93:22

96:10 108:19

111:15 123:2

124:1 131:21

136:14

144:18

146:11

somebody

88:14 92:21

somehow 25:4

52:17

someone 50:3

51:13 52:12

someone's

46:18

something

9:17 10:8

12:10,10

15:7,13

19:16 25:22

32:9 49:13

56:4 61:7

67:22 82:13

82:20 91:22

92:8 95:6

97:6 102:1

106:9 109:7

115:15 122:9

125:18

127:21

132:15

138:22

139:21

somewhat

31:16 42:20

somewhere

20:5 49:7

76:20 81:5

107:12

soon 5:21

84:18

sorry 28:15

37:3 48:12

87:9 90:2

106:11 117:4

127:17

130:11,21

140:22,22

sort 15:8,12

16:4 18:6,18

21:15 22:7,8

26:7,11

27:20 28:8

28:11 29:6

29:11 31:8

31:18 32:3,9

33:9 37:5,18

38:1,15

44:21 47:22

55:22 73:15

73:16 75:9

79:11 129:3

129:4 133:7

sorts 18:20

sounds 21:19

70:17 123:16

127:2 139:17

source 30:20

35:2 42:12

133:18

south 107:18

115:19

space 16:9

23:7,7 24:20

27:12 28:18

28:20 29:3

48:13,16

57:19 58:2

92:12 148:2

148:13,14
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

27

149:4

spaces 48:10

speak 6:8,13

13:8 145:14

145:18

SPEAKER

5:12,18,19

6:2 13:15

33:3,7 36:19

37:2 45:3,9

48:18 55:10

57:6 58:16

64:9,20

65:17 66:13

67:12,16

68:5,10,19

69:9,17 71:7

71:14,18,21

72:1,3 74:12

74:17,18

76:8,21 79:1

80:10,11,14

80:18 81:1,2

81:7 85:7,15

87:12 89:1,6

89:8,18

90:19 92:8

92:18,21

94:7,17,19

96:1 105:22

106:2,19,21

107:10

108:17

109:16

113:22 114:5

115:3,18

116:9 117:18

127:9,14,17

129:9,13

131:11

133:10,21,22

134:1,4,22

135:2 136:12

136:14,18

137:2 139:13

142:20

146:19

147:21

149:22 150:4

151:20 152:2

speaking 33:8

41:4 55:12

66:18 67:8

67:12,14

68:13 69:5

69:10 77:17

78:6,9,13

79:7 80:7,12

80:16 81:12

85:18 87:2

89:19 90:16

93:1,5 102:7

105:4 107:5

114:1,2

116:10

119:19 120:8

120:15 121:2

125:2 135:3

135:4 136:15

137:1,3

143:19 144:3

147:22

149:17

specific 18:22

35:19

specifically

28:21 100:4

spectrum

145:17

speculate

61:19

speculating

59:16 109:11

speculative

103:16

speeds 94:13

spend 139:16

139:16

spending

139:16 144:1

spike 39:14,15

split 47:1

77:15 83:2,3

83:4,13,15

83:20 86:13

89:11 92:5

92:11,14,18

93:7 94:9

98:13 99:16

99:19 107:6

116:20

130:18

splits 84:1,5,8

85:9 86:21

87:9,11 99:5

99:5,6

spoke 24:22

spot 124:12

spreadsheet

45:4 126:16

square 55:17

117:15,16

143:15

stable 29:17

stage 11:5

12:7,7 95:10

staged 8:22

9:2

stages 10:13

11:5,7,11

staging 95:3

104:10,10

stair 130:16

standard 14:1

14:8,13,15

14:21 21:13

37:19 43:20

44:15 52:5

52:16 64:18

66:9 86:6

92:9 122:6

145:6

standard's

52:10

standards

12:21 24:2

Starr 3:4 11:3

11:20 12:22

12:22 19:3,3

19:7,14,21

21:8 27:17

27:17,22

28:12 32:1,5

32:8,13,20

33:2,20 34:4

34:8,15,20

38:2,17,20

39:17 40:17

41:10 50:13

50:15 51:8

51:20 61:22

63:12,19

66:4,16

77:11 78:1,3

92:2,2,9

131:22 132:4

132:17 133:6

133:11 135:5

136:2 137:10

137:15

138:12,16

143:15,20

144:2 145:21

146:8 150:8

150:13

start 4:10 6:5

26:10 60:15

60:17 98:11

109:4 111:17

115:11,16

started 4:4

47:9,18

109:9 112:7

112:7,13

133:7

starts 80:17

state 13:7

94:20

state-wide

123:15

statements

9:9

static 128:15

138:1,7

statistics

21:11

stay 51:12

119:13

stays 129:2

steal 144:11

step 132:19

still 8:1 18:5

30:20 31:19

31:20 36:3

43:16 67:20

68:21 69:3,4

106:16 125:8

stock 14:16,19

16:8,12,13

16:17 17:7

17:10 18:4,7

23:13,15,16

24:16 26:9

33:18 34:10

34:14 38:14

39:6,16 42:2

69:20 76:21

100:10,13

118:5

stocks 42:22

stood 150:14

storage 92:12

stores 57:21

straight 66:17

66:21

stream 123:9

street 150:2

stretching

136:16

strikes 52:21
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

28

75:1,5

strip 24:17

49:1 57:22

strong 88:8

strongly 89:20

struck 79:3,4

structure 93:4

struggle 58:12

struggling

93:9

studies 21:17

139:18 140:1

study 7:10,11

12:14

stuff 39:22

40:1 41:9

69:13 74:21

80:5 83:12

83:19 84:13

92:9 96:15

104:5 110:11

style 30:16

subdivide

30:16 86:16

submitted

25:19 26:6

35:15

subset 144:22

substantial

10:4 123:6

substantiate

48:1

such 12:7

40:17 106:9

sudden 104:4

110:12

sufficiently

98:16

suggest 87:22

122:11 123:1

suggesting

41:10 82:10

99:9

suggestion

76:2 77:19

87:14 133:13

suggestions

87:16

summation

135:12

sums 74:19

Sunday 146:5

super 12:9

54:13

Superclips

52:13

supply 7:12,17

11:4 83:22

support 83:9

116:13 119:6

123:10

supposed

41:21

sure 5:18 7:18

12:3 21:14

30:7 36:21

45:6 47:16

65:1 81:11

82:21,22

93:13 97:8

98:3,6 99:1,8

101:21

102:16,20

104:3 109:21

117:11 127:3

137:2 139:20

148:2,11,17

149:10,12

surface 101:5

surprised

43:13

surprises

104:4

survey 133:16

surveys 27:11

switch 123:6

switched

110:13

switching

108:19

114:22 115:1

system 11:13

47:1,12

59:22 60:2,4

72:17 77:16

83:15 99:16

134:10

135:14

137:18

systems 34:5

34:6 76:5,14

83:2,5,13,20

92:5 98:13

137:19

T

table 4:7 20:4

20:11 82:13

95:17 104:5

122:14

tabled 13:9

tables 20:7

45:7

tack 70:18

tail 22:17,20

36:10,22

37:7,18

41:18 142:15

take 4:6 13:20

23:7 24:19

27:1,10 33:4

39:6 55:3,4

70:18 76:4

81:2,2,3 90:6

98:5 129:17

136:21

149:20

taken 81:13

97:10 101:16

takes 92:11

taking 32:18

36:22 55:6

80:5 134:11

134:13 143:7

talk 21:7 47:9

52:6 78:8

79:19 82:1

83:7

talked 8:5,9

50:15 54:3

78:16 124:8

134:4 149:17

151:10

talking 8:13

10:12,21

11:14 31:3

39:6,17

43:15 46:4

50:20 52:9

60:13 69:12

79:6 83:3

89:3 95:12

95:12 109:8

109:14,17

112:1 122:8

125:5

tank 10:4

tax 53:14 54:2

tax-deductible

58:9

taxes 53:15,16

tech 108:10

technically

99:17

technology

113:1,3

Ted 4:3,10

123:21

tell 32:2 33:22

39:18 47:12

59:10 71:20

83:21 84:12

96:7 97:6

114:22

133:19

147:22 149:4

telling 119:3

tells 17:8

28:13

temperate

107:13,18

temperature

7:12,17 11:4

11:6,8 12:4

12:13 141:12

141:22 142:8

temperatures

11:21 140:17

140:20,21

141:2,15

ten 63:16

tenant 50:10

51:12 59:19

tenant's 51:3

tend 66:14

tends 22:7,8

64:6

term 24:13,15

123:3 126:18

terms 6:16

29:5 103:22

116:14

117:10 122:1

129:12 138:5

144:7

Terzigni 3:5

13:1,1 62:15

62:15 63:8

63:17,20

64:10 71:5

133:17

135:12,18,21

than 8:10 30:3

30:14 35:15

38:17,20

39:19 55:20

60:11 67:13

67:16 70:2

73:21 78:12

79:9 86:20
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

29

89:14 91:5,9

95:16 96:14

102:3,7

103:20 104:2

106:6 107:1

107:18

111:21,21

116:5 117:18

121:21 124:4

124:5 135:9

143:2 144:21

Thank 5:14,22

6:4 13:4,17

26:4 31:1

61:9 80:2

116:11

136:19 143:8

150:19

Thanks 138:13

139:6

Tharp 3:6 4:14

4:14 35:17

35:18 46:22

46:22 47:4

68:13 69:6

77:9 90:2,11

91:6,12,17

93:5 113:17

themselves

7:2

theoretically

91:8

thing 4:5 8:1

11:4 13:5

15:8 16:4,7

20:3,15 22:7

22:8,20

28:11 30:20

31:8 40:21

51:22 56:8

56:10 69:1

77:15 79:18

82:3 88:16

99:21 106:14

112:1

things 6:16 7:6

8:18 10:9

14:13 18:19

18:20 22:5,6

22:8 27:3,4

32:6,8 34:21

37:16 50:21

52:5,8,18

54:1,8 56:15

67:4 69:11

70:6 75:13

93:12 104:9

109:4 112:15

122:12 123:7

124:14 125:8

137:12

138:18 147:3

think 6:8,15

7:4 8:6 9:4

9:16,18 10:5

10:21 12:2

12:11,15

13:12,14,17

18:11 21:16

23:1 24:14

29:20,22

31:15 36:8,9

36:16 37:11

37:20 40:10

41:10,12

46:15,20

48:8 49:2,5,9

52:22 54:15

56:5 58:11

60:4,7,9,9,13

61:19 62:4,8

71:9,20

75:19 78:17

80:21 81:15

81:22 83:9

84:2,7 87:7

88:19 89:18

90:7,11,13

90:19 92:14

93:17 94:1,1

94:5,9 95:7

97:2,4 98:10

102:11,14,15

104:8 106:15

107:17,17,19

109:1 110:4

118:3,10

122:13,18

124:2 125:5

125:9 126:11

126:14,19

128:18 131:9

133:4,15

138:10

139:18

140:22 142:1

142:16

144:22

145:16 146:4

146:22 147:8

148:1 149:17

150:15

151:10,14,16

thinking 59:3

59:4 77:13

78:15 85:16

95:14 96:12

98:11 111:1

111:5,9

116:2,16

138:22 144:7

151:4

thoroughly

101:11

thought 35:6

39:10 80:11

95:11,12

135:5 140:20

142:12 151:1

thoughts

138:5

thousand 10:5

108:5

three 6:22

10:12 11:4

16:20 23:4

34:15,21

44:5,7

113:21

three-ish

114:10

three-phase

60:13

three-quarter

127:19

three-stage

11:11,12,22

threw 46:15

56:18

throwing

30:19

thumbs 91:20

123:19,21

134:19

136:11,17

thunder

144:11,13

Thursday 1:5

tier 90:15

ties 123:2,3

tilt 61:19

time 11:17

17:2 25:14

26:11,13

32:19 33:16

34:13 37:9

42:12 50:1

51:6 54:17

55:18,19

81:9 96:9

101:19,19

103:18

106:16 108:4

109:13

113:22 114:1

117:1,7,8,9

117:12 118:1

118:2,3,21

124:19

144:17 146:4

146:17 148:4

151:19

times 16:9

17:10 23:6

23:15 48:10

89:6,8

144:21 148:9

timing 112:11

tinkering

75:20

today 30:3

60:11 80:11

89:11 96:22

111:14,20,21

113:3,7

117:15 149:9

today's 64:14

104:2

together 29:10

32:6,9 96:22

97:3 124:10

told 120:2

tomorrow

80:10,17

ton 35:21

36:15 37:13

46:13 49:4

63:9 71:10

71:19 74:16

111:8

tonnage 62:22

121:5

tons 8:21 9:1

9:11,20,21

9:21 60:19

70:5,6 73:13

74:8 83:3,5

125:2 131:6

131:7

took 7:10 40:1
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

30

138:19

140:12 141:6

141:12

tools 75:12

top 44:8,22

59:9 84:8

87:13 146:9

topic 30:9

103:1 124:4

124:6 129:9

Toro 2:9 6:3

7:10

total 14:10

16:7,11

23:16 25:7,8

26:2,20

32:10 34:13

34:14 39:16

44:4,9 65:7

90:9 93:20

117:20

119:20 120:1

128:15 138:2

138:3

totally 96:6

141:7 150:13

totals 83:9,10

toward 30:5,5

town 50:16

track 14:17

83:18

Trane 4:22 5:3

38:21 48:12

61:6 68:21

77:14 78:4

transcribe

153:4

TRANSCRIB...

1:22

transcript

153:5

translates

122:1

transparent

15:14

treating 65:6

trends 30:9

triangles 35:1

tricky 99:20

tried 96:17

troubling

139:22

true 43:18

114:5 153:5

trust 112:20

try 6:13 14:17

17:6 24:10

26:11,15

30:13 31:9

35:9 36:2

54:11 56:13

59:8 96:10

126:15

130:18

146:16,21

trying16:3,11

54:5 61:15

72:20,21

73:3 75:8

77:6 78:11

80:2 90:2

96:21 97:3

98:22 109:22

114:8 128:10

131:21

137:17

TSD 96:14,15

Tuesday 152:1

turn 7:2 13:5

13:13

turned 76:17

147:9

turnover 14:19

18:7

two 14:9 18:8

27:8 32:8

43:16 47:11

47:15 49:12

58:5 66:20

74:16 80:7

81:20 89:6,8

93:12 108:5

113:17 125:5

126:17 130:5

142:17

two-tenths

135:13

type 24:17

27:21 29:4

33:5 34:11

49:19,20

134:8

types 28:11

61:1 62:20

82:8,12,17

82:18 84:5

84:21 108:19

typical 12:12

21:12 41:13

typically7:16

11:5,22 12:3

12:7 57:14

68:14,16

92:22 94:22

U

U 16:15

uh-huh 45:2

102:21

UL 4:13

ultimately

110:15

umbrella

150:9

uncertainty

76:13

unclear 8:11

understand

12:1 16:3

38:22 40:19

61:16 74:19

91:11 97:9

understandi...

48:21 84:19

98:14

Understood

110:7

uneven 74:20

unfortunately

104:11

unhappy 53:22

unit 10:19

15:21 17:4,9

17:20 20:5

34:4,11

37:12 38:4

44:6,15 47:8

48:4 51:11

54:12,16

62:4,7,18,22

63:2,3,4,5,9

67:6 69:16

73:5,9 74:2,2

78:3 83:17

89:9 98:4

99:13 105:13

105:14

106:15

108:12

111:11,11,15

111:18

121:22 138:5

unit's 75:17

unitary 70:2

units 10:12

12:12 14:11

14:18 16:19

16:19 17:1

17:11,22

19:20 20:22

23:8 24:1

27:18 28:2,5

32:18,22

33:18 34:11

36:17 37:4,7

39:18,21

44:11,18

46:6 47:5

49:4 50:10

56:2 75:11

75:16 82:18

83:17 96:19

97:11,11

106:20 121:8

124:9 137:12

unless 110:2

149:6

unusual 57:9

up-sell 54:5

update 147:9

upon 28:2

upper 28:14

31:4

ups 55:22

usage 110:11

use 13:20

14:16 17:7

17:10 19:1

24:2 25:10

28:10 37:20

41:21 59:12

65:22 66:3

69:15 91:3

91:11 93:1

125:13,22

128:12,15

129:14

137:22 138:6

139:2 142:7

uses 50:11

59:11 122:5

usual 6:7,12

usually 50:21

50:22 57:20

61:9 135:21

utilities 123:5

V

vacant 57:18

57:21
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

31

valid 48:9

value 9:13

30:14 35:19

37:1 64:8

95:10 103:10

values 89:21

valves 18:20

22:6

variable 9:7,15

16:15 57:16

57:20 115:8

variables 77:7

variation

87:21

vary 64:3

VAV83:20

velocities

136:1

velocity

132:17,19

133:11

135:22 136:3

vendor 130:12

130:14

132:20 133:1

vendors 130:5

130:12

versa 92:19

version 15:11

versus 46:5

59:4 60:3

71:21 72:7

77:8 79:14

84:16 87:19

87:20 93:9

97:11 107:18

116:18

119:18

via 3:3,7

vice 92:18

view 137:6

virtue 118:1,1

visual 142:2

voices 6:7

volume 6:8

7:20 9:15

99:7 115:12

138:4

vote 79:2

91:21 134:13

voted 6:16

voting 136:12

136:13

W

wait 129:2

waiting 42:11

wake 14:5

146:11

walk 6:22

walked 150:2

walls 51:8

Waltner 3:7

4:12,12

52:19,21

142:22 143:5

143:9,18

149:8,12

150:1

want 6:4 9:1

12:3 13:6

15:3 26:8

29:10,14

31:13 38:9

41:19,20

54:14 70:14

71:9 73:1

74:22 75:13

75:14 76:22

79:19 82:20

83:7,8 93:13

94:13 96:1

102:16

109:18

113:18

115:17

117:10

118:16,17,17

118:19

127:20 139:8

139:9 145:13

145:14,18

148:6 151:12

151:13

wanted 17:15

20:4 79:11

98:18 99:8

124:15

137:22 138:6

wants 33:17

34:1 70:16

warmer 12:7

wash 101:14

102:12

Washington

1:13 107:15

wasn't 76:10

130:16

142:16

watch 14:19

water 30:19

way 23:19 32:6

41:19 42:18

48:14 50:14

55:16 58:19

63:10 71:9

78:4,17

100:9 104:4

104:15

106:17 121:3

126:11 129:2

131:15 132:6

132:21,22

138:10

141:11 143:5

145:21

ways 59:10

60:19,19

66:20

we're 4:6 7:1

8:13 10:12

11:1,14

13:12 15:13

16:11 18:1

25:7 31:3,8

31:19,20

34:13,14

39:5 42:11

42:14 43:5,7

44:3 46:4,10

52:6,9,16

55:10 56:5

59:16 60:13

64:15 72:20

72:21 73:3

73:15 75:8

75:20 77:5

78:8,10

81:17,20

85:8 89:3

93:8,12

96:21 98:20

102:1,14,17

102:17

108:22 109:2

109:2,7,14

112:15 113:7

115:5,12

117:21

118:20 121:1

122:13 125:5

126:9 127:13

128:10

139:15

144:16,20

147:5,6,12

148:4,6

149:16

150:15,16

we've 38:10

42:8 43:11

49:5 56:8

69:11 81:18

81:22 82:6,6

84:12 93:22

101:16

103:16 106:5

122:12,20

123:18 130:1

139:4 144:18

145:4 147:1

weather 150:6

web 22:4

webinar 3:3,7

5:11 6:9

81:17 145:15

week 11:17

105:18

125:18

126:19

144:16

151:22

weekend 98:8

146:17

weeks 43:16

Weibull 17:7,8

17:13,16,19

21:11 34:10

41:18,21

weighted 95:1

weighting

126:1 128:19

weightings

129:4

went 9:2,7

10:13 15:1

96:16 108:10

125:11

130:19

137:16

Westphalen

3:8 5:7,7

10:11,17,21

82:3,4 84:14

85:1,12

87:14 88:6

88:10 91:2,8

91:13 94:8

94:21 95:11

95:15 96:8
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

32

96:16,19

97:13,16,19

98:3 99:8,12

99:15,18

100:3,7,14

100:21 101:7

101:10,15

102:22 103:4

103:7 105:19

107:20

109:20 110:7

110:15,20

116:12 118:6

118:10

123:22

125:10 127:7

127:16,18

129:21 130:4

130:11,18

131:1,7,13

132:12,18

135:9 145:15

whatsoever

121:7

whenever

117:9

where 10:2,12

11:18 15:14

17:3 20:8

22:10 24:22

26:14,15,16

37:21 39:19

41:11 42:2

51:3 52:18

53:3 56:1

58:12 59:2

59:22 62:10

62:13 69:15

69:18 71:1,4

85:13 91:18

92:20 95:2

96:4 102:11

109:11

111:18 113:9

113:20

116:21,21

120:8 128:4

132:19 133:7

138:18

whether 8:12

8:16 10:1

12:6 30:8

53:3 67:2

77:1 92:22

139:20,20

140:10,16

Whitwell 3:9

4:18,18 7:4,5

9:4,22 10:8

10:16,18

11:1 24:21

25:1 28:15

28:22 35:2,5

35:10 65:10

65:11,21

67:10,15,21

68:7,9 84:2,2

85:18,19

88:13 89:9

92:13 93:17

94:5,11 95:7

95:10,14

97:8,14,18

97:20 104:8

104:9,19

105:1,5,8,11

105:13

106:11,14

109:9 111:1

111:9,14,17

112:6,13,22

113:5,11,20

114:15 117:3

119:7,11

120:5,9,11

120:15

121:12,17

124:18,22

125:5 130:21

131:3 139:7

139:7,14

140:22

141:10 142:1

142:4,19

143:4,8,11

143:22

who's 7:10

whole 41:11

45:3,10 47:8

53:19 54:7

63:8 98:1

99:10 132:14

whose 52:12

wide 17:16

wider 111:20

wiggles 31:7

wild 70:17

Williams 3:10

willing 15:20

Wilson 3:11

6:3

Winningham

3:12 4:15,15

109:13

114:10

115:20 116:4

within 10:15

11:13 30:5

113:17

won't 28:10

52:2 77:11

77:12,16

115:17

126:17

144:11

wonder 57:15

57:16 141:10

wondered

127:4

wondering

66:5 85:4

words 28:6

55:6 66:8

77:19 98:19

work 7:20

24:11 47:15

69:20 70:16

73:18 92:12

93:14 110:18

123:4,10

151:2

workday

146:19

worked 7:12

29:21 54:10

working 1:1

4:8 11:16

12:16 61:17

112:7 146:18

146:20

150:17

works 20:19

45:14

world 64:14

101:11 134:2

worms 139:9

worry 41:8

113:9 150:11

worst 136:21

worth 119:11

write 53:18,19

writing 147:22

written 51:2

wrong 36:9

66:12

X

X 18:3 60:8

73:9 85:4,5,5

Xing 3:13

Xu 3:13

Y

Y 16:16 19:14

yeah 5:17 6:6

10:7 11:16

13:15,17

19:7,7 20:13

20:13 21:14

21:21 22:20

23:1 24:18

24:19 26:2

27:20 29:1

30:22 32:14

33:9 34:9

35:8 36:8,16

36:21 37:15

39:5 41:13

41:17 42:2

43:1 45:5,8

45:18 57:3

58:3,10,10

65:4,22

67:10,15,21

68:13 69:7

70:21 72:1

72:20 75:4,7

76:9,11 79:2

79:12 80:20

81:11 82:3

83:10 84:7

84:14 85:22

87:1,12 89:1

89:1,7 90:15

91:21 93:5

97:16,20

98:3 99:8,15

100:17 101:7

101:22

102:13,19

103:6 104:21

105:10 108:5

108:6 109:9

110:19 111:7

111:16 113:4

113:19 114:4

114:7,8,10

114:15 117:5

117:11,18

120:18

121:12,15,20
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

33

121:21 122:8

122:11

124:18,22

125:10 129:9

130:20 131:7

131:12,13

133:12 135:9

135:20

136:14,17

138:14 142:1

142:14,20

143:15 147:8

147:11

149:16 150:4

year 16:12,16

16:16 26:10

28:3 34:20

41:8 43:21

45:9 54:10

57:19 58:5

101:18

108:12

113:18

121:22 122:5

years 19:8,9

19:19,20

20:6,12 27:2

27:2 38:7,13

38:14 46:20

51:11,14

61:13 63:2,3

63:4 66:11

76:5,19 78:3

113:8,17,21

Yep 80:1

yesterday 6:15

6:19 8:7,9

9:5 11:10

13:10 24:22

47:6 56:14

127:12 129:8

139:11 147:9

151:9

yet 76:6,12

youngest 76:4

76:16

Z

Zendah 3:14

5:1,1 40:3,3

40:7,13,22

47:20 59:4,8

60:12,12

61:3,9,13

69:8,21 70:7

74:1,1,20

zero 16:17

33:13 63:2

63:16 75:4

128:1 140:14

zeroed 141:1

zeros 129:1

zoned 65:11

0

0.4 39:6

03 19:4,6,7,8

05 38:3,4,7

130:12 131:1

1

1 19:13 22:5,7

37:5 38:5,17

38:20 39:17

39:18 88:15

88:20 95:18

110:16

130:13 131:1

145:9

1.25 127:19

138:8,14,15

1.5 22:5

1/1/2010 77:4

10 19:8,19,20

27:2 46:13

46:16,21

48:1,3,9 49:9

52:17,19

53:1,9 62:9

62:10 63:3,4

64:16 70:5

71:7 75:21

76:19 77:1

87:3 100:10

100:12

117:15,18,19

141:5

10- 62:2

10,000 46:18

46:19 47:5

52:18 130:19

10.6 138:19

100 12:5 23:17

121:22

11 54:18

11:00 146:6

110,000 35:18

12 4:4 18:4

19:9 91:5,9

12:00 146:8

120 35:20,21

120,000 35:18

13.5 138:19

135 79:5,14

14 91:4,10

109:18

15 9:1,21 40:5

47:14 61:13

63:4 71:11

73:14 74:8

74:15 81:2,3

87:7,8 130:2

130:9 132:9

134:22

15-ton 35:22

63:9 65:13

65:19 132:5

15-year-old

62:3

16.8 20:5,11

160 9:11

167 9:10 11:11

11:13

17 112:9

175,000 109:6

18 40:6,7 41:1

19.2 20:6

1980 25:20

35:16 39:20

1996 77:14

1st 76:17

148:13

151:22

2

2 19:1 22:5,9

86:22 88:15

90:4,13 91:4

91:9,9 93:9

93:21,22

95:13,14,16

110:17 130:1

130:8,13

131:1 133:6

133:13

134:10,14,16

134:17,20

135:10 136:8

20 27:2 47:22

48:6 52:9

71:8,11 78:3

78:4 79:9

83:3,5 86:22

87:1,3,4,7

105:2

20-ish 87:5

20-ton 60:22

20/20 34:1

200 38:5,5

39:17

2000 42:16

45:9

2001 25:20

35:9,16

2002 35:13

76:8

2005 25:19

35:3 89:4

2006 59:7

2009 76:20

2010 35:7,13

35:17 39:20

76:10,18

2015 1:5

153:12

2016 112:6

2019 43:20,21

45:11 76:3

2020 77:10

2048 44:4

45:11

20585 1:13

20s 130:19

21 1:5

22 18:4

23 131:9

239 105:20

24 131:9,10

240 105:20

240-plus 95:21

25 9:16 88:16

143:2,17

25th 153:12

26 130:15,17

132:3

2nd 148:13

152:1

3

3 19:19 38:13

61:4 90:13

91:19 93:10

93:21,22

95:5 129:1

137:18

139:12,13

141:4

3-ton 60:15,19

61:3

3,000 64:15

3.3 108:10
Meeting - Vol. II May 21, 2015

202-220-4158 www.hendersonlegalservices.com

Henderson Legal Services, Inc.

34

111:6

3.7 108:10

111:6

3.9 66:10

3.98 143:15,18

3:00 148:10

30 9:11,21

40:11,15

41:12,20

63:10 73:14

74:8 127:10

127:14 130:9

131:6,7

141:2

30-ton 35:22

35:22 36:2

47:9,12

54:19 63:9

65:14 72:11

130:3 132:10

30-year 14:6

30/10 137:12

30/70 129:3

300 108:11

31 127:11

128:5

32 127:15,16

35 41:20 63:3

128:6 130:2

130:9

4

4 38:14 41:7

60:22 79:15

137:18

4,000 71:21

72:6,7

40 9:4,6,10

10:14 11:13

22:17,18

23:1 36:9,14

38:3,7,13,14

39:9,10,18

40:9 46:11

110:4

40-year 38:16

44 20:11

45 143:20

46 138:21

47 115:21

137:15

5

5 41:7 51:13

56:7 60:22

63:2,3 79:14

83:2,5 86:21

86:22 87:1

88:19 137:18

141:5

5-ton 63:7

112:2

5-tonnish

109:6

5.36 143:18

50 20:9 62:21

50/50 62:21

51 138:21

55 7:14 11:6

12:2,6

55-degree

7:17

6

6 22:14 60:15

60:19 140:15

143:15

6-ton 60:14,15

6.8/1.12 89:2

6/1 144:16

6/2 144:16

60 8:6,11 9:2

11:18 41:12

140:13

600 70:5

62 63:11

138:20

65 7:11 11:7

79:5

66 8:6

67 8:22 9:8

71:19

7

7 56:5 95:17

7.5-ton 108:9

72 146:1,1

73 146:1

74 146:1

75 95:2 138:15

7th 1:12

8

8 72:8,9 125:2

139:13

8- 71:21

8,000 46:18

8:00 148:10

80 46:15,22

47:1,3,4,8

57:12 60:1

62:3,9,11

63:4 71:13

72:9 128:6

129:1

800,000 59:1

83 79:4

84 79:4

8th 152:4

9

9 64:16 77:1

140:15

9,000 64:14

71:21

9:45 81:4

148:9

90 67:12

90.1 88:4,6,9

88:22 89:11

89:14,22

94:22

950 1:11