U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

57–128 PDF 2010

PROGRESS ON JOBS AND SMALL 

BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES AS THE 

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND 

SECURITY CONSTRUCTION BEGINS IN 

WARD 8 

(111–119) 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PUBLIC BUILDINGS, AND 

EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

TRANSPORTATION AND 

INFRASTRUCTURE 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

June 15, 2010 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure 

( 

COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE 

JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota, Chairman 

NICK J. RAHALL, II, West Virginia, Vice 

Chair 

PETER A. DEFAZIO, Oregon 

JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois 

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of 

Columbia 

JERROLD NADLER, New York 

CORRINE BROWN, Florida 

BOB FILNER, California 

EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas 

GENE TAYLOR, Mississippi 

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland 

LEONARD L. BOSWELL, Iowa 

TIM HOLDEN, Pennsylvania 

BRIAN BAIRD, Washington 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

TIMOTHY H. BISHOP, New York 

MICHAEL H. MICHAUD, Maine 

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri 

GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California 

DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois 

MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

MICHAEL A. ARCURI, New York 

HARRY E. MITCHELL, Arizona 

CHRISTOPHER P. CARNEY, Pennsylvania 

JOHN J. HALL, New York 

STEVE KAGEN, Wisconsin 

STEVE COHEN, Tennessee 

LAURA A. RICHARDSON, California 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland 

SOLOMON P. ORTIZ, Texas 

PHIL HARE, Illinois 

JOHN A. BOCCIERI, Ohio 

MARK H. SCHAUER, Michigan 

BETSY MARKEY, Colorado 

MICHAEL E. MCMAHON, New York 

THOMAS S. P. PERRIELLO, Virginia 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

HARRY TEAGUE, New Mexico 

JOHN GARAMENDI, California 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOHN L. MICA, Florida 

DON YOUNG, Alaska 

THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin 

HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina 

JOHN J. DUNCAN, JR., Tennessee 

VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan 

FRANK A. LOBIONDO, New Jersey 

JERRY MORAN, Kansas 

GARY G. MILLER, California 

HENRY E. BROWN, JR., South Carolina 

TIMOTHY V. JOHNSON, Illinois 

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

JIM GERLACH, Pennsylvania 

MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida 

CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania 

CONNIE MACK, Florida 

LYNN A WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

JEAN SCHMIDT, Ohio 

CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky 

ANH ‘‘JOSEPH’’ CAO, Louisiana 

AARON SCHOCK, Illinois 

PETE OLSON, Texas 

VACANCY 

(II) 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PUBLIC BUILDINGS, AND EMERGENCY

MANAGEMENT

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of Columbia, Chair 

BETSY MARKEY, Colorado 

MICHAEL H. MICHAUD, Maine 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri 

TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota 

MICHAEL A. ARCURI, New York 

CHRISTOPHER P. CARNEY, Pennsylvania, 

Vice Chair 

DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland 

THOMAS S. P. PERRIELLO, Virginia 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota 

(Ex Officio) 

MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida 

TIMOTHY V. JOHNSON, Illinois 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky 

ANH ‘‘JOSEPH’’ CAO, Louisiana 

VACANCY 

(III) 

(V) 

CONTENTS Page 

Summary of Subject Matter .................................................................................... vi 

TESTIMONY 

Bennett, Cecil, Operator, Clark Foundations ........................................................ 22 

Bunn, James, Executive Director, Ward 8 Business Council .............................. 22 

Ebadi, Shapour, Project Executive, St. Elizabeths DHS Consolidation, General 

Services Administration ...................................................................................... 4 

Hardie, Yanic, President and Cheif Executive Officer, Hardie Industries ......... 22 

Lawrence, Lincoln, Vice President, Public Division, Clark Construction Group, 

LLC ........................................................................................................................ 4 

McKirchy, Kathleen, Director Community Services Agency, Metropolitan 

Washington, Council, AFL–CIO .......................................................................... 22 

Stewart, Gabriel, Laborer, Clark Foundations ...................................................... 22 

Thomas, Beverly L., President, Regional Contracting Services, LLC ................. 22 

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS 

Norton, Hon. Eleanor Holmes, of the District of Columbia ................................. 45 

Oberstar, James L., of Minnesota .......................................................................... 47 

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY WITNESSES 

Bennett, Cecil and Stewart, Gabriel ...................................................................... 49 

Bunn, James ............................................................................................................ 50 

Ebadi, Shapour ........................................................................................................ 53 

Hardie, Yanic ........................................................................................................... 61 

Lawrence, Lincoln .................................................................................................... 63 

McKirchy, Kathleen ................................................................................................. 74 

Thomas, Beverly L. .................................................................................................. 77 

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Ebadi, Shapour, Project Executive, St. Elizabeths DHS Consolidation, General 

Services Administration, response to request for information from the Subcommittee .............................................................................................................. 60 

Lawrence, Lincoln, Vice President, Public Division, Clark Construction Group, 

LLC, response to request for information from the Subcommittee .................. 70 

vi 


Insert offset folio 1 here 57128.001
vii 


Insert offset folio 2 here 57128.002
viii 


Insert offset folio 3 here 57128.003
ix 


Insert offset folio 4 here 57128.004
x 


Insert offset folio 5 here 57128.005
(1) 

FIELD HEARING ON THE PROGRESS ON JOBS 

AND SMALL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES AS 

THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY CONSTRUCTION BEGINS IN WARD 8 

Wednesday, June 15, 2010 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PUBLIC

BUILDINGS, AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT

COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

Washington, DC. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 5:30 p.m., in St. Matthews Memorial Baptist Church, 2616 Martin Luther King Jr., Avenue, S.E., Washington, D.C., Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Norton and Diaz-Balart. 

Ms. NORTON. The hearing will come to order. The Ranking Member of our Subcommittee has a privilege I do not have. And he is 

exercising that privilege now. Votes were called as I left the House. 

And Mr. Diaz-Balart is anxious to be here but has indicated that 

he would have no issue with our starting this hearing. We expect 

him to come when the vote is over. The vote will be on for D.C. 

at some point. Don’t give up on him. 

That said, welcome to today’s hearing entitled ‘‘Progress on Jobs 

and Small Business Opportunities as the Department of Homeland 

Security Construction in Ward 8.’’ 

We are examining a large and unprecedented Federal development on the federally owned West Campus of St. Elizabeths Hospital in the Anacostia neighborhood of Southeast Washington. 

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security headquarters construction project marked the first time the Federal Government 

will locate a Federal agency east of the Anacostia. And what an 

historic time it is because the Department of Homeland Security is 

not just any agency. It is a signature agency of the Federal Government. 

The St. Elizabeths West Campus has been an unoccupied eyesore 

for decades, bringing down Martin Luther King Avenue and the 

community around it. The Federal Government has held onto the 

West Campus because of the scarcity of land in the District because there is too little remaining space in the nation’s capital to 

meet the Federal Government office space needs and because of the 

need for consolidation of agencies to improve their efficiency. 

By building on its own land, the St. Elizabeths campus, the site, 

brings savings to the Federal Government. And it meets other reVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:05 Mar 24, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\57128.TXT JEAN
2 

quirements, such as the presence of Metro stations and there are 

two stations near St. Elizabeths—and other public transportation 

as well and accessibility and proximity to other Federal agencies in 

the District. 

This is the second congressional hearing on the effects of the Department of Homeland Security headquarters development on employment and small businesses in the District of Columbia, in addition to our authorization and appropriation hearings. This hearing 

is devoted to the important local implications and benefits of this 

large Federal project. 

Later this week, as part of the annual congressional hearing before my Subcommittee on General Services Administration’s Capital Investment and Leasing Program, we will address some of the 

macro issues related to the overall planning and construction of the 

DHS project. 

The Federal Government is crossing the Anacostia River with 

one of its most prestigious and important agencies at a time when 

wards 7 and 8 are seeking to become destination points, like many 

other areas in the District of Columbia. 

Although this construction will benefit the entire city and region, 

its potential effects on wards 7 and 8, in particular, are important. 

At the end of last year, ward 8 had a nearly 30 percent unemployment rate and a poverty rate of 40 percent according to the Washington Post. I do not intend to bring a nearly $3.4 billion development to the District without ensuring that residents near the site 

benefit in the competitive search for jobs and small business opportunities. 

Last December, at my request, the GSA and Clark Construction 

generously constructed an Opportunity Center on the West Campus of St. Elizabeths. The Opportunity Center features job search 

assistance, small business and training sessions pre-apprenticeship, apprenticeship, and other job training information, a computer lab, a conference room, and information kiosk. It’s a brand 

new quite fine facility. 

In addition, I introduced and Congress enacted an amendment 

that authorized $3 million for apprenticeship and pre-apprenticeship training programs in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act that we call the stimulus bill. 

At least one group, the Community Services Agency of the Metropolitan Washington Council, AFL–CIO, competed successfully for 

this funding and has graduated 161 adults, 105 of whom are District residents. 

We also anticipate opportunities for D.C. residents to participate 

in the building of the DHS headquarters through an apprenticeship 

program we previously negotiated with GSA, which requires apprenticeship training programs to be part of the competitive bidding process on all GSA building projects in the National Capital 

Region. That is to say, in order to win one of these lucrative contracts, they get points for training. And you can bet that we are 

going to make sure that all who have those contracts and subcontracts are indeed fulfilling that requirement. 

The GSA has worked closely with me to ensure that the community and the Federal Government actively collaborate in the planning and implementation of the DHS headquarters. This cooperaVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:05 Mar 24, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\57128.TXT JEAN
3 

tion has been beneficial both to the local community and to the 

Federal Government. 

The Federal Government needs local communities to buy into 

Federal projects so that the two can exist amicably together. And 

communities want Federal construction which brings construction 

jobs and Federal employees to an area and has unfailingly spared 

local, retail, and commercial development as well. 

This hearing continues a process we began shortly after the Federal Government initially funded the new DHS headquarters 

project. In 2006, the community will remember we began by holding a town meeting where top GSA, U.S. Coast Guard, and District 

officials participated in a standing room only meeting where questions from residents were taken, followed by another community 

meeting in 2008. 

In September 2007, GSA and I sponsored a small business forum 

on opportunities that would become available at the site. In December 2007, we held our first congressional hearing on the project. 

The GSA has continued to ensure community participation in 

countless meetings working with ward 8 residents throughout this 

process and getting their feedback in order to assist GSA in making decisions. Consequently, the project has been well-received by 

community residents, who are hopeful that the new headquarters 

will help spur retail and other efforts underway to ensure increased commercial development and, of course, that there will be 

jobs for the community from this project. 

The Federal Government broke ground on the Coast Guard 

building, the first building to go up, earlier this year, a 1.2 million 

square foot building on the West St. Elizabeths Campus. 

The DHS components identified for consolidation at the headquarters include the Office of the Secretary of the Department of 

Homeland Security; the Transportation Security Administration; 

Customs and Border Protection; Immigration; and Customs Enforcement; the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA; 

and the Coast Guard; as well as liaisons for agencies not being currently located here because there is not enough room for all of DHS 

to fit into one site. 

GSA also has as its mission maintaining and preserving St. Elizabeths as a national historic landmark, including leaves of most of 

its historic building. Currently GSA is working to complete a master plan for the consolidation of some of the most important GSA 

component agencies to establish its post-9/11 mission of bringing 

together agencies that must work jointly to prevent and respond to 

terrorist events and natural disasters in our country. 

GSA will relocate Federal tenants currently in leased space to 

federally owned space, unlike lease payments. Placing Federal employees in government-owned space enhances the vitality of the 

Federal building fund because lease payments are directed to the 

building fun and then recycled to help us keep Federal buildings 

going up and in good repair, rather than as with leasing going to 

private developers. We could very much look forward to having the 

hearing witnesses in this, our first site hearing. We will have other 

site hearings as the construction proceeds. 

We want to proceed now with the first of two panels and the witnesses. We will hear first from Shapour Ebadi, Project Executive, 

4 

St. Elizabeths DHS consolidation, the General Services Administration. 

Mr. Ebadi, you may proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF SHAPOUR EBADI, PROJECT EXECUTIVE, ST. 

ELIZABETHS DHS CONSOLIDATION, GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION; LINCOLN LAWRENCE, VICE PRESIDENT, 

PUBLIC DIVISION, CLARK CONSTRUCTION GROUP, LLC 

Mr. EBADI. Good evening, Chairwoman Norton and Members of 

the Subcommittee. My name is Shapour Ebadi. And I am Deputy 

Regional Commissioner in the National Capital Region for GSA’s 

Public Building Service. 

Thank you for inviting me to appear before you to discuss the 

progress with the new Department of Homeland Security headquarters at the St. Elizabeths campus here in ward 8. The DHS 

headquarters project at St. Elizabeths is the largest Federal construction since the Pentagon. It’s four and a half million square 

feet of workplace plus one and a half million square feet of parking 

spaces. 

DHS compares to the Pentagon six million square feet. However, 

the Pentagon also has more than 60 acres of parking on surface 

lots. DHS parking will be a multi-story parking garage located partially or completely underground. 

This project will have tremendous economic benefits for the 

neighborhood, the city, the region, and the nation. Construction 

will generate more than 30,000 jobs directly. And there are far 

more people working on the site and indirectly of the wages pay 

cycle through the economy. At the peak of the construction cycle, 

there will be 1,000 people working on site supported by hundreds 

of small businesses, subcontractors, and vendors. 

Moving DHS into a single federally owned headquarters campus 

will save the American taxpayers over $500 million. In net present 

value, when compared with continuing to locate the same components through leased space for the next 30 years. 

The preliminary draft environmental impact statement is for the 

placement of 750,000 square feet of office space and 775 structure 

parking spaces on the east campus. This document is being released for public review and comment this summer. We in the District office describe it as a major boost to the District’s effort to redevelop East Campus as a mixed-use community. 

We are also working with the District Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, and National Clark Services to provide transportation access to the headquarters campus 

without unduly burdening Martin Luther King, Jr. Avenue. 

The key to the success of this initiative is obtaining approval 

from the National Park Service to utilize a small portion of the 

property through Malcolm X Avenue, I-295 interchange. Negotiations are still underway with the National Park Service. 

GSA has made intensive efforts to reach out to the ward 8 and 

surrounding communities. We have held more than 50 meetings 

here and in training labs, with advisory neighborhood commissions 

will take local residents’ councils and local business groups. These 

include six public hearings, the town hall that you represent, Ms. 

5 

Norton, Chair, and five all-day training sessions for small businesses on how to do business with GSA. 

Our general contract is for 1.2 million square feet. Our Coast 

guard headquarters now under construction has identified $224 

million in subcontracting opportunities. Forty percent of this will 

go to small businesses. 

While GSA cannot mandate that Clark select from a specific geographic location, we have already chosen 25 District-based small 

businesses to work on site. Thirteen of these are located in ward 

8. Seventy subcontracts are awarded. 

Clark will also establish an Opportunity Center on campus as a 

one-stop location for people interested in providing and procuring 

contracts or jobs to learn what opportunities are available and receive guidance from GSA personnel on site. This operation will continue with new general contractors participating in our program. 

GSA has also contracted with AFL–CIO to provide pre-apprenticeship training. We held the first graduation ceremony in December. And we have graduated three more classes since then. 

Clark has established an apprenticeship program for people interested in careers in the building trades. They have already employed 34 apprentices. At least 12 are District residents, even 

though construction has only been underway for five months and 

it’s focused on excavation and foundation work. 

At present, there are almost 650 employees on site. Four hundred and fifty-eight are being employed under or to Coast Guards 

headquarters, 250 truck drivers. Sixty percent of these truckers are 

owned or operated by the District residents. 

GSA is going to great lengths to present the character of this national and historic landmark. They have designed the campus so 

that no building will be higher than the center building. All the 

buildings that are above ground are located away from the historic 

part of the campus, either behind buildings. They are part of that 

or cascading down the hill to the Anacostia River. We will preserve 

these, and we use 51 of the 62 buildings on the West Campus. 

We and DHS are also working with the community to provide ongoing access to the campus. In particular, the magnificence views 

from the utilization of the theatre facility and the historic cemetery 

are the focus of our discussions. DHS has committed to making 

these sites available and accessible on a limited basis. 

This campus would also be an environmental short case. Approximately 80 percent of the roof area of the new building will be 

green. It will be a cogeneration facility, which will provide 25 percent of our energy on site. New buildings will have natural footprints or their interiors will have an abundance of natural light. 

We will use innovative HVAC systems and materials that are locally produced and/or recycled. 

The green roofs along with the extensive landscaping and underground systems will capture up to a 15-year strong event before it 

flows into the Anacostia River. Our goal is to achieve the go ahead 

in transportation from the U.S. Green Buildings Council. 

The total cost for the project, including funds both from GSA and 

DHS, is $3.4 billion. At present, more than one billion has been, 

$1 billion has been, appropriated to both agencies. Of this total, the 

6 

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has provided $450 million for GSA and $250 million for DHS. 

We are currently constructing phase one of the three-phase 

project. This first phase consists of 1.3 million square feet of Coast 

Guard headquarters, a 2,000-car parking garage, perimeter security fence, and renovation of 7 historic buildings. 

Occupancy for the Coast Guard will occur in 2013. Phase two will 

restore and modernize the center building to house the Office of the 

Secretary of DHS and construct the new FEMA headquarters on 

the East Campus, starting 2011 and finishing 2014. Phase three 

will provide new headquarters for TSA, CBP, and ICE starting in 

2013. Occupancy for the entire project is scheduled for 2016. 

In closing, I would like to thank you, Representative Norton, and 

your Committee for the strong support you have provided for this 

project. Your familiarity with all of its details is impressive. And 

your commitment to making it a success is strong. 

Thank you for providing GSA with the opportunity to make this 

project possible. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, thank you for that testimony, Mr. Ebadi. We 

will have questions for you after we hear next from Lincoln Lawrence, Vice President, Public Division, Clark Construction Group. 

Ms. NORTON. Mr. Lawrence? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Thank you, Chairwoman Norton. 

My name is Lincoln Lawrence, and I am a Vice President for the 

Public Division in the Mid-Atlantic Region for Clark Construction 

Group, LLC. 

I would like to thank the Subcommittee for the opportunity to 

address our progress related to the construction of the U.S. Coast 

Guard headquarters building as part of the Homeland Security 

Construction on the St. Elizabeths campus. 

We were founded in 1906. Clark Construction Group is today one 

of the nation’s most experienced and respected providers of construction services, with over 4.5 billion in annual revenue in major 

projects throughout the United States. 

We perform a full range of construction services throughout the 

United States, from small interior renovations to some of the most 

visible architectural landmarks in the country. 

Projects we are known for in the Washington area include FedEx 

Field, the Verizon Center, U.S. Department of Transportation 

headquarters, and the Largo Metro station. 

The foundation of all of our construction work is a solid relationship with both public and private clients who have the confidence 

to rely time and again on our experience and in-house expertise to 

make their vision a reality and a commitment to the communities 

where we work. 

Today I am pleased to respond to the Subcommittee’s request 

where Clark addressed the progression of contracting and job opportunities associated with the U.S. Coast Guard headquarters 

building on the St. Elizabeths campus. 

We are pleased that the U.S. General Services Administration selected Clark to lead the design and construction of the Coast Guard 

headquarters, a 1.2 million square foot facility that will feature an 

11-story office building for 3,800 employees, a separate central utility plat in 2 7-story parking garages to be constructed on the West 

7 

Campus of the former St. Elizabeths Hospital site here in the city’s 

Anacostia neighborhood. This project is the first phase of the Department of Homeland Security’s consolidation and relocation to 

Southeast Washington, DC. 

The U.S. Coast Guard headquarters project was originally 

planned for LEED certification. However, at our previous hearing 

in October before this Subcommittee, we committed to work with 

the GSA to seek to raise that rating to a LEED gold certification. 

And those efforts are on the way. 

In October 2009 before this Subcommittee, let me mention two 

efforts to encourage and expand employment opportunities in the 

community. First, Clark placed an employment opportunity trailer 

at the project site. This trailer is the Opportunity Center. The Opportunity Center trailer, run by GSA, is a key resource to the community providing real-time workforce availability on site, not just 

for Clark but all the subcontractors as well. 

Second, Clark provides GSA with timely procurement schedules 

such that any business, including those here in ward 8, can see 

what work is coming and decide if they want an opportunity to participate in that work. 

Clark and their major subcontractors today have registered apprenticeship programs and keep in contact with Community Services Agency, who runs a pre-apprenticeship program that trains 

prospective employees from ward 8 on the skills needed to quality 

for an apprenticeship job. 

Just last Thursday, Clark hosted a current class in the tour of 

the Coast Guard job site and discussed upcoming opportunities and 

the process to apply for those jobs. 

Since beginning site preparation work in February, the major 

item of work has been earthwork. To date, we have moved 40 percent of the approximately 1.3 million cubic yards of earth to be excavated. While the amount of dirt and rock removed daily varies, 

on an average day, approximately 250 trucks remove dirt and rock 

from the site and as many as 300 trucks may operate on any given 

day. 

Of these trucks, more than 60 percent are either owned by District operators or subcontracted by District companies. The Opportunity Center was used to introduce interested truckers and businesses to the earthwork subcontractor, resulting in significant local 

participation in the earthwork. 

Since the start of this project through the beginning of June, we 

have created a total of 23 new hires: 8 union and 15 non-union. 

Thirteen of the non-union individuals were hired through the Opportunity Center. Soon the next major work project starting at the 

site will be concrete work, which will continue through the Fall of 

2011. 

As with all construction efforts, concrete work will take some 

time before the effort significantly rams up. This leads to a discussion of how jobs are filled for this project. 

At this early stage of the project, we have approximately 200 

workers on site. To date, 34 apprentices have worked on this 

project. Journeyman and apprenticeship jobs are filled in a number 

of ways. Union jobs are filled through the various trade unions’ 

halls. Non-union jobs have been filled through the Opportunity 

8 

Center and from employees moving to this job after completing 

work on all the projects. 

The key here is using the Opportunity Center trailer as a resource for employment opportunities and following up with the various trades to make them aware of this resource. 

I want to make clear that the number of jobs in subcontracting 

opportunities are not unlimited. However, the Opportunity Center 

trailer is a vehicle for both subcontractors and job seekers to work 

with Clark and our subcontractors on the U.S. Coast Guard project. 

On behalf of Clark Construction Group, I want to thank you for 

the opportunity to testify today. And I am happy to answer any 

questions you may have. We also have a representative from two 

of our major subcontractors, John J. Kingman and Diane Electric 

Corporation. and they are available to respond to your questions 

and any specific questions related to their trade. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence. 

Your testimony, the testimony of both you, Mr. Lawrence, and 

Mr. Ebadi, is important because if we have the announcement of 

a construction project, people come out of the woodwork, especially 

in the period of the great recession, saying they want a job. 

Now, I want to ask you about the phases of hiring and business 

opportunities. I have been calling this the pre-hiring stage because 

what the public usually regards as construction work, people on the 

ground digging and all the rest of that, is yet to occur. What precisely is occurring on this site now? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Currently we’re doing the earthwork. We are actively progressing in the work. We are probably about 40 percent 

complete with the earthwork. 

Ms. NORTON. And the ‘‘earthwork’’ means hauling away earth so 

that you begin working in the hold; that is, to the new building? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Right. Another way to look at it is excavation of 

the dirt that is there. We are moving it from site. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, to do that work, there is basically a crane and 

some drivers? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. There are a number of what we call earth-moving equipment, cranes. And you see a lot of dump trucks coming 

to take the dirt away. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, Mr. Ebadi, is this what you meant when you 

talked about 24/7? Tell me about how that operation works. 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. As Lincoln said, we are in the excavation 

and hauling phase at this point. We are moving 1.3 million cubic 

yards of dirt from the site. And right now we are moving—we have 

45 percent into our 1.3 million cubic yards. And that’s it, great 

achievement in our schedule and our—— 

Ms. NORTON. That’s only because you are nonstop hauling? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. Twenty-four hours a day they are loaded and 

moved? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. And that’s—we’re doing this so they can get 

to our next phase, which will as we pour concrete. Actually, as they 

coincidentally poured our first concrete today, this morning, for 

our—— 

Ms. NORTON. What kind of workers pour concrete? 

9 

Mr. EBADI. Basically, we will utilize rebar and contractors and 

concrete finishers, concrete placers, and forklift contractors. And 

that just for the record, Chairwoman, our concrete provider for this 

project is a D.C. contractor. So we actually are—— 

Ms. NORTON. Could you submit the name of that contractor to 

the Committee within 30 days? 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. 

Mr. LAWRENCE. If I could just add to that? Also it’s a District 

company that is also going to be furnishing and installing the reinforcing steel that goes in the concrete. 

Ms. NORTON. A District-based company? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. District. 

Ms. NORTON. Is that a small business? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. A small business. 

Ms. NORTON. Will be providing the? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Furnishing the reinforcing steel. That is what 

goes inside the concrete. They will be furnishing and installing 

that. And we can provide that along with the concrete company in 

the next 30 days. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, do I understand—I’m reading from Mr. Lawrence’s testimony—250 trucks to remove dirt and rock from the 

site. So that is starting today? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. And more than 60 percent are either owned by District operators or subcontracted by District companies. What is 

that? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. What is that? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. They are either District owners of the trucking 

company or in some cases a District company has subcontracted 

out to a number of trucks. So the number of trucks that the District company has subcontracted out plus the independent truckers 

to get a makeup of around 60 percent of all of the trucks being removing dirt at the site. 

Mr. EBADI. In other words, this is exactly part of our goal. In 

achieving everything on this project, we are going to maximize 

about subcontracting plan and employment with the District residents, even though if there is a truck driving phase, we will have 

truck driver owner/operators that aren’t mainly District contractors 

or District residents. We’re going to the other activities, such as 

demolition. 

And, just to let the Chairman know, we have three projects other 

than procurement as we speak. Once these procurements come to 

completion as we award the project, there will be a new wave of 

actually abatement contractors, demolition contractors, and small 

businesses that will be part of this procurement. 

So each phase will have a significant amount of D.C. and surrounding communities’ participation. 

Ms. NORTON. Mr. Ebadi, this is a very important point. Usually 

when people think of a construction job, they think of something 

that goes on for a couple of years, it’s up and running. 

This could provide jobs, construction jobs, for upwards of almost 

ten years. This will mean 14,000 Federal employees who have to 

10 

come to work every day in this building. We will, of course, get to 

the effect that could conceivably have on ward 8 later. 

How were you able to get such a high percentage of Districtowned truck operators? What did you do to reach out to get this 

percentage? And you are going to supply the names within 30 

days? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. What we basically have done is, even 

though—as a Federal project, geographical locations in our procurement is not mandated. However, every time we award a contract, 

either to Clark or to anybody else, basically Bonnie Echoles, our 

lead contracting officer, and myself and our other team members, 

one thing we emphasize to all of these contractors is basically in 

a real sense, understand where you are and understand what this 

project is about. 

This project is about basically for—has it not been for the recovery funds, this project would have never happened. 

So we will sit down with these contractors. And basically we will 

tell them they have to be sensitive to District contractors in ward 

8/ward 7 so they may award residents as the opportunity comes 

about. 

Mr. LAWRENCE. If I could just add to that? Clark and our contractors are sensitive to the need to use District and ward 8 residents. And one of the specific things we did shortly after awarding 

the subcontractor, a subcontractor of earthwork, we had an opportunity at the Opportunity Center, where we invited a number of 

small businesses, mostly from ward 8 and other District wards, 

who had competed for the work but were not successful in being 

the lowest responsible subcontractor. 

But we knew they had a lot of companies that had made arrangements with different truckers. So we got all of those companies to come and meet the low successful bidder. And they were 

able to form a relationship. And that is part of how a lot of these 

District companies are participating in the Coast Guard. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, let’s get to the qualifications for jobs. I was 

at the site. And I saw a homeless man, very well-spoken man, who 

was working on the site. And he told me a story that needs to be 

told. 

There are various ways to apply for a job. When people hear of 

jobs here, we have our apprentice programs, who are, of course, 

going to funnel people for consideration. 

Clark, as I understand it, went into the neighborhood. Now, I 

talked with this young man, who was living in a homeless shelter. 

And he told me that of the 20 or so people, that he knew of only 

one who had been hired. 

Shapour, why? In that first round of people that simply came off 

the streets, why was this young man the only one hired? 

Mr. EBADI. The main reason, Congresswoman, was, unfortunately, most of them failed the drug test. And so, consequently, we 

were able to hire a very limited amount of the interviewers. 

And since then we have actually gotten together with some of the 

workforce groups and our contracting officers. Basically we’re in 

the process of developing basically a community of workforce 

groups so they can partner with us in the Opportunity Center. 

11 

So there will be some screening and pre-apprenticeship programs 

and also training before we go into the application process. This 

way we won’t have the came scenario as these failures that we 

faced. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, this is a Federal project. So it is governed by 

Federal law, not just by your own regulations. What does Federal 

law require with respect to documentation of citizenship? 

Mr. EBADI. We require what we call basically permanent residency or work permit in the United States. And also we make sure 

if there are any background issues, we will take that case by case. 

We have basically said—— 

Ms. NORTON. Well, let me ask you to stop right there. Suppose 

a person doesn’t have an entirely clean record. Under what circumstances could such a person work on a Federal site? I know you 

are using the same procedures here that you must use nationwide. 

What kind of a record can a person have and still get hired? 

Mr. EBADI. There is no felony and the felony is not basically 

three years or earlier. They have made the basic—— 

Ms. NORTON. So even felonies if they are not recent felonies? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. OK. At least it allows you to be considered for a 

job? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. On a Federal site in this country? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. We have basically established basically a 

mutual agreement with DHS security folks to basically take, even 

in a worst-case scenario, where we need to evaluate the situation. 

We just want—there will be no basically umbrella rejection. 

Ms. NORTON. Blanket rejection. 

Mr. EBADI. Blanket rejection of the issues. Everyone will be considered on a case-by-case basis. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, I was able to get the money out of the Congress for this project. I had gotten the first hundred million dollars 

out of them. The way in which I was able to get the money for this 

project was through the American Recovery Act. That act aims, 

first and foremost, to create jobs as well as small business opportunities. But it is an anti-recession statute. 

And my Subcommittee and the full Committee have been having 

hearings, in which we track the number of jobs and small business 

opportunities. Can you tell me how many jobs and small business 

opportunities have been provided to date? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. To date roughly 70 subcontractors and suppliers, 

who either have or will be participating in a multi-tier basis on the 

project. Sixty-one of those 70 subcontractors and suppliers are 

small businesses. Of those 61, 25 are from the District and 13 from 

ward 8. 

Ms. NORTON. What kind of work have small businesses been 

doing on this project at this time? And I would like the names of 

those small businesses in 30 days as well. 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Sure, not a problem. I would say a number of 

things. The major item is the site utilities work. That work actually 

started probably three weeks or so ago. And even though that company, small business company, the contractor is in excess of $2 million, they have only 7 people on the project. And I mention that beVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:05 Mar 24, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\57128.TXT JEAN
12 

cause one of those seven actually came from the Opportunity Center, which I thought you might want to know. 

Other than that, for the earthwork and site demolition work, one 

of the joint venture partners or earthwork subcontractor is a small 

business as well as approximately nine of the major truckers that 

are working with a small or joint venture, earthworks, are small 

businesses. 

The other subcontractors or small businesses that have signed up 

actually have not started work as of yet, talking like for the exterior grazing work, for the mechanical, the electrical work. Those 

small contractors, small business contractors, that will be working 

with those subs have not actually started work yet on the project. 

But those, the 70 I mentioned, are those that have committed or 

have a letter of intent to do work on the project. 

Ms. NORTON. Yes, Mr. Ebadi? 

Mr. EBADI. Sorry. Just to elaborate on what Mr. Lawrence is saying, this is Clark’s portion. Now, we have other projects that basically are not Clark’s-related. If we know we are monitoring our 

subcontracting plan on a weekly basis in our progress meetings, we 

would have—basically so we just completed our demolition abatement contract for the warehouses. That was a small business, 8(a)- 

certified contractor. And, actually, they posted an 8(a) competitive 

procurement the night before last night for abatement and demolition of the seven historic projects that I mentioned in my testimony. 

So in the—that Clark is in maintaining their obligation to the 

subcontracting plan and small business participation, we at GSA 

also have our own small, set-aside contracts. 

Ms. NORTON. This is very important to understand. Clark has 

goals for small businesses, and so does GSA. Some of the small 

business is not related to the major contract. And that is why GSA 

has it. 

Much of it is—and that’s why Mr. Lawrence has it, and the government does allow goals and expects goals and expects goals to be 

met. This is an important distinction. There are two sources for 

small businesses. 

Now, Mr. Lawrence, let me tell you something that we’re not seeing here, I hate to say, on this project. Sophisticated small businesses have said that there are times—again, this is not related to 

Clark, and I am obviously going to get information on Clark with 

respect to this allegation—that small businesses are sometimes 

taken on pursuant to goals and then the major contractor does the 

work or small business, in fact, now has an opportunity, managing 

opportunity, for training. It is simply used as appointment for the 

goals. 

How would you respond to that complaint, which I have heard 

widely enough to have to ask you not about your company but 

about what you are going to do to make sure these small businesses who qualify competitively, which means they must know 

how to work, in fact, can work alongside the contractor and, in effect, participate in a higher level of training than might have been 

available to them before? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. You are correct. I have heard that. A lot of people have heard that before. That is now how Clark operates. We 

13 

have a smaller business group in our company. We also have a 

strategic partnership program and just completed a fourth year on 

this and may need to come back to what you talked about about 

developing these small businesses, teaching them, and from things 

that they would not otherwise be exposed to and not have the opportunity to work with large businesses. 

It is a process that we try to do, in fact, on the Coast Guard 

project, although we have been contacted by more than 250 such 

small businesses. What we do is we get their capabilities. We make 

sure that for the specific trade that we are dealing with, we contract with the large businesses but not as a passthrough. It is 

made clear that Clark is not into that. And we have too much of 

a relationship with a number of people in the community whom we 

have helped and help us to develop our strategic partnership program to avoid and minimize things like that. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, Mr. Lawrence, so far you have certainly met 

our expectations. I raised it because apparently it is fairly widespread among subcontractors. 

At the same time, I put the community on notice that this is a 

Federal project, and this is not just any Federal project. What I am 

going to say goes to all Federal projects. GSA is held to a very 

high-quality standard. 

Now, if someone competes—and the 8(a), the small businesses do 

compete, those who are 8(a) compete among themselves—if at any 

time a small business is not meeting the quality goals the Federal 

Government puts on Clark, Clark had better get rid of that small 

business. Mr. Ebadi had better be on notice here. That is how a 

Federal project works. That is why the competition initially is so 

important. 

And I assume that given the extraordinary competition for this 

historic construction, that once you have landed a subcontractor, 

you must be pretty good to begin with. So you begin with a presumption that you are good. And it is up to Clark to help go the 

rest of the way. 

And if something happens, it is Clark whom we are going to hold 

responsible. So it would reflect poorly on Clark and, for that matter, poorly on Mr. Ebadi—I’m sorry—on GSA, Mr. Ebadi, not on 

you personally, sir. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. NORTON. It would reflect poorly on GSA and poorly on Clark 

and their competition if after, in fact, recruiting subcontractors, 

they just had to toss them away or if the Congresswoman heard 

complaints that they had won but they are not doing anything. 

Now, we are fortunate, indeed, that our Ranking Member, who 

was voting on the House floor, has come. And he is my good friend. 

He wanted to be sure to come here. And I am going to interrupt 

my own questions now to ask Mr. Diaz-Balart if he has any opening statement. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Let me first 

ask you forgiveness for being late. You did mention why I was not 

able to be here. 

Ms. NORTON. I will forgive you for voting. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. That’s right. That’s right. 

[Laughter.] 

14 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Yes. You know, she’s never subtle and never 

stops working—— 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. —as you have just seen right now. Let me just 

very briefly again thank you for having this hearing. I know that 

it is unusual in this time of bickering and of physical tease and of 

partisanship to have two Members who work closely together, who 

tend to agree on a lot of issues. And it’s I think, due in great part, 

to the leadership of my Chairwoman. Thank you for having this 

hearing here. 

And, just very briefly, I had this whole spiel, but you already 

started, but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention once again your 

leadership, Madam Chairwoman, in particular, in working so hard 

to make sure that the taxpayer doesn’t continue to waste money 

with leasing properties whenever we can own because it saves. And 

this is a good example of one of the things that we are talking 

about today about this facility, St. Elizabeths, that we could save 

potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to the taxpayer. And also 

the Chairwoman has also been a strong advocate obviously to making sure that facilities stay here in the District. 

She has been steadfast. She has been effective. To me it is a 

privilege to work with her, issues that she cares so deeply and 

shows great leadership. So I had a statement that there is ample 

opportunity for that, Madam Chairwoman. 

I do want to, again, since the whole voting thing got extended— 

I may have to leave earlier than, unfortunately. But no, I mean, 

we’re done there, but everything else that I had planned for after 

that has now been postponed. So I am not quite sure. Depending 

on how long your hearing is—obviously it’s of great interest. If I 

leave early, it is not because I am not interested. Plus, as you all 

know, I will hear it anyways. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. And I know that none of you have any doubts 

anyways. 

Thank you all. Thank you all for being here. Thank the witnesses. And, more importantly, I want to thank the Chairwoman 

not only for this hearing but for her steadfast leadership and for 

standing up for the people that she represents so well. Thank you, 

Madam Chair. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you, Mr. Diaz-Balart. You haven’t heard the 

questions. So I am inclined to ask you, do you want to ask any 

questions now? 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. No, not at this moment. 

Ms. NORTON. All right. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. NORTON. And perhaps wait for the next panel. 

Now, I was interested to hear that, even in this so-called pre-hiring season, when we basically are hauling away dirt and rock, that 

in your testimony, Mr. Lawrence, you indicated 34 apprentices 

have worked on the St. Elizabeths project. What have these apprentices been doing in this kind of pre-big hiring season period? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Well, actually, 17 of those apprentices were with 

our electrical subcontractor. They had some site electrical utility 

15 

work to do earlier in the project. And that was where 17 of those 

participated. 

I am also listing the unskilled laborers that we have hired from 

the Opportunity Center as part of their apprenticeship program. 

Other than that, the mechanical contractor had one apprentice on 

the project. And our supportive excavation work had four. So that 

was sort of how we came up to the 34 that participated so far. 

We estimated in our proposal that we anticipated approximately 

375 apprentices through all trades throughout the project for the 

3 years. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, when does the hiring season for this project 

begin in earnest? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Well, as Mr. Ebadi mentioned, we are just starting with the concrete work. And I anticipate later—— 

Ms. NORTON. Does that mean we’re still hauling away—— 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Oh, no. The earthwork is approximately 40 percent complete. I anticipate the continuous hauling, with night 

shifts included, will continue through August-September. And I 

would say about September-October, we will probably be about 80 

percent complete with removing the dirt from the site. 

The remaining 20 percent would be at a slower pace. And will 

continue through into the first quarter of next year because, even 

though we have finished for the main building, there are two garages there, which would be better at a slower pace. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, Mr. Ebadi, I indicated to GSA that, particularly in light of the fact that this is a stimulus project, I didn’t understand sequencing the building and the use. They’re not particularly related. Are we going to be hiring people on the reuse work 

of the historic buildings at the same time that we are working on 

construction? And if so, when does that begin? 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. As I mentioned before, Clark—let me not 

restrict it to Clark. By the next six months, Clark will have only 

a small piece of this project. So we are actually moving, shifting towards modernization and actually infrastructure work and most of 

the abatement and demolition project. Those are the ones actually 

that are done heavily that concentrate on small businesses and 

local workforce because of the nature of the work. 

Typically when you get into modernization and interior work, 

that is where basically you will utilize a lot of man-hours and—— 

Ms. NORTON. What kind of work do you do in that interior work? 

Mr. EBADI. Everything from demolition, painting, basically tile 

work, glazing, drywall, patching, masonry, site work, landscaping, 

excavation, utility duct banks, and so on. These are heavily laborintensive phases. 

As Mr. Lawrence mentioned, we are actually 40 percent into our 

excavation, but we have set forth a construction sequence so we 

can start carpentry early while the other excavation in the home 

is going on at the same time. So we will actually be moving aggressively on the schedule so we can produce better, also have a better 

outlay for our committed employment and business opportunities 

for this project. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, this proceeding as if this were indeed an organic process, rather than a sequential one, is actually very intelVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:05 Mar 24, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\57128.TXT JEAN
16 

ligent to save us taxpayers’ fund, to avoid the times of delays in 

completion of a project. That would be very important here. 

You describe, Mr. Ebadi. Suppose there are here today small 

businesses who would like to become 8(a) businesses. How can they 

become 8(a) businesses? 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. And we have basically 8(a) training on 

parts of the small business with GSA every other week in our Opportunity Center and in response at the Small Business Office in 

GSA National Capital Region. They come through the Opportunity 

Center. 

LaJuan Stevens and her team basically send out information so 

these folks can basically get them through the GSA process and be 

part of our future workforce in the subcontracting community. 

Ms. NORTON. So let me see how this happens. So I want to be 

a small business. I understand you are having this session this 

week. You have these sessions every other week? 

Mr. EBADI. Every other week. 

Ms. NORTON. OK. I come to your session. At the end of that session, what happens, this session of 8(a) session? Am I qualified as 

an 8(a) business or not? 

Mr. EBADI. 8(a) qualification is basically in being certified by the 

Small Business Administration. However, what is ironic, Congresswoman, most of the 8(a)’s that we deal with are receiving training 

sessions. 

Very few of them know how to deal with GSA set-aside programs 

and also general contractors. We basically walk them through our 

subcontracting opportunities. And at the end of the day, they are 

very informed about the project, phasing different phases of the 

project, and the potential general contractor and subcontracting opportunities out there. 

And we basically walk them through sometimes how to—what 

are the methods in terms of getting bonds and basically introduction to different people in Small Business Administration and also 

how to actually even fill out the bid form. 

Ms. NORTON. So how do they become 8(a)-certified? I still don’t 

understand that. So they go through this. It’s important to learn 

this. How do you get on the dotted line certified you are 8(a)? 

Mr. EBADI. 8(a) certification is done by the Small Business Administration. 

Ms. NORTON. So I know who it is supposed to be done by. So 

what do they come to you for? 

Mr. EBADI. They come to us basically to understand how GSA’s 

set-aside program works. 

Ms. NORTON. Then how does the Small Business Administration 

get involved in these people who have come through your workshop? 

Mr. EBADI. Sure. Once we basically have these folks under 

trained in our workshop, once an opportunity comes up for an 8(a) 

project, our contracting officer will send a letter to the Small Business Administration to make sure these folks are certified. And 

they will basically get into negotiations with that firm. 

Ms. NORTON. So do they take your training and march over to 

the Small Business Administration and say, ‘‘Certify me’’? 

17 

Mr. EBADI. They are already certified before they come to—they 

are already an 8(a)-certified contractor before they come to our—— 

Ms. NORTON. So my question, Mr. Ebadi, is, how does a small 

business get 8(a)-certified? And what does your training workshop 

do to help them get 8(a)-certified? 

Mr. EBADI. We basically show them the procedures on how to become and 8(a) and also how to receive 8(a) certification through the 

Small Business Administration. 

Ms. NORTON. I still don’t know how. OK. I receive the training. 

Do I take testing? What do I do to—— 

Mr. EBADI. No. The Small Business Administration basically 

hands out—— 

Ms. NORTON. Do you pass on some kind of recommendation to 

the SBA? 

Mr. EBADI. We don’t have any recommendations, but they can actually put that on their resume that they have been through the 

GSA workshops. 

Ms. NORTON. And that will assist them in getting 8(a) certification? 

Mr. EBADI. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. How many people have gotten 8(a) certifications 

through your workshops? 

Mr. EBADI. We will get you the information. 

Ms. NORTON. I need that information: names and serial numbers. 

Mr. EBADI. Yes. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, in your testimony, Mr. Ebadi, you say that 

the small business goal for the Coast Guard headquarters—that’s 

the first building going up. It’s $225 million. How is that amount 

derived? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. In our proposal to GSA, we have estimated the 

amount to be contracted. And that is how that overall—— 

Ms. NORTON. Say what? I’m sorry? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. In our proposal to GSA last July, one of the requirements in submitting a subcontracting plan was to estimate 

the amount—— 

Ms. NORTON. I see. 

Mr. LAWRENCE. —of dollars to be subcontracted. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, this is what I want. You’re saying that as 

part of competing for the project with a lot of people competing, you 

had to indicate how much you would devote of your work to small 

businesses. 

Mr. LAWRENCE. To small business. 

Ms. NORTON. And in competition with others who came up with 

various amounts, presumably less than yours, that was something 

that helped you get the contract? 

Mr. LAWRENCE. Correct. 

Ms. NORTON. OK. Well, that’s why you are going to be on accounting. 

Now, when does GSA expect the first award on that grand center 

building that is going to be I take it the Secretary’s—— 

Mr. EBADI. It is part of our phase two 8(a) project, which is in 

design as we speak. And it is supposed to help us out in the procurement in November and December of this year. 

18 

Ms. NORTON. Now, there are 15 different—out of the stimulus 

from our Subcommittee was not only the DHS project but 15 other 

projects going on right here in the District of Columbia upgrading 

Federal properties. In what ways since those are located right here 

are residents to be involved or are involved in that work? 

I’m not stopping with DHS, and I know Clark is not necessarily 

the contractor there. But the work that is being done and Mr. DiazBalart stated is to be done in all 50 states, all the territories, and 

the District of Columbia because this is the nation’s capital and because we are talking about fixing Federal properties, there is perhaps a disproportion of those properties in the nation’s capital. So 

how are you handling the small business and the jobs for those 15? 

Mr. EBADI. I would have to defer that question to our recovery 

team, but basically the procurement—— 

Ms. NORTON. I know in one sense it is an unfair question because 

you are the Department of Homeland Security man, but whatever 

you know about it I would like to know about it. 

Mr. EBADI. Sure. In general, the procurement mechanism and 

guidelines are the same, how we basically have competition and 

procurement for those projects that is anything from 25 millionplus, basically we’ll have a PLA language in the procurement. And 

also there will be a good portion of small business focus and why. 

Ms. NORTON. Now, Mr. Ebadi, one of the great and important 

things that this project will do and that, to your credit, GSA has 

been working to assure is to help restore Martin Luther King Avenue as a great thoroughfare. 

Now, in every building that we construct, we the Federal Government, there are some amenities. If, however, all of the amenities 

go to things, dry cleaners, the kinds of things that people expect 

to do during work hours or going to work, coming to work, if those 

amenities are all located behind the wall—I understand it is an 

historic wall. I am not going to take down the wall. 

But if those amenities are all provided within the building, then 

Martin Luther King Avenue will look the same way it looks today. 

What are you doing to make sure that amenities are offered on the 

outside the same way they are offered on K street in the District 

of Columbia? 

Mr. EBADI. Actually, ma’am, we are working very closely with 

the District business development teams. And that is why our East 

Campus master plan actually is critical to be an anchor for private 

businesses and private developers to be alongside the North Martin 

Luther King Avenue because, even though 14,000 employees will 

be on this campus, Federal employees will—the average of Federal 

employees, that will eat and utilize the internal employees varies, 

but they will be—it may just lead to outside amenities. 

So in our discussions in the District, we are actually working 

through to help them out on their FEMA headquarters so we can 

upgrade their infrastructure to bring private developers to build 

the amenities in commercial development. 

Ms. NORTON. This is certainly an important and actual part of 

what you are doing. I appreciate that you are working with the 

prospectus. We are going to require that this be done so that there 

be no doubt that it will be in writing. It is not that we don’t trust 

you. It is because we don’t know who will be there during what 

19 

may be ten years of construction. We have no issues with GSA at 

this time I am pleased to say. I understand that GSA wants $10 million in this project to go to 

pedestrian tunnels. Why should we spend that money on pedestrian tunnels? What is wrong with DHS employees they can’t cross 

the street if they have got to get over to the FEMA building? 

Mr. EBADI. It is mainly, actually, to help more both the transportation management plan, also the security requirements. Basically 

we want to use the full ratio for parking space in this campus. And 

our goal is with parking with DHS basically once an employee 

walks in through a security entrance, they don’t have to go back 

and forth and utilize other means of transportation or driving 

across a parking lot—— 

Ms. NORTON. Mr. Ebadi, as long as you have that thing on you 

that says that you are an employee, you are not going to have to 

worry about going into the entrance on the other side of the street. 

Mr. EBADI. There are 22 entrances. And each one of them probably will have their own—— 

Ms. NORTON. They’re not going to have their own because they 

also come under our jurisdiction. And if they are all with the Department of Homeland Security, then they do Department of 

Homeland Security. And if somebody wants to get in there one way 

or the other, they are not going to be able to find some easier way 

to get into the Department of Homeland Security than other ways. 

We are dealing with, as you know, Mr. Ebadi—this, of course, 

has nothing to do with you but with the fact that differential standards for buildings resulted in the GAO being able to get bomb-making materials into a building and go in the restroom and put them 

together. That is how much security we have when we have each 

agency trying to decide. 

This is not for us to decide here. If they are going to have highlevel security—and they should—they are not going to have—each 

agency deciding different securities. And if they don’t, then why 

was your picture on your chest? Could you not cross the street to 

go to another building? 

Mr. EBADI. Actually, what I think by different agencies, actually, 

they believe in one DHS, which facilitates one security. But there 

are conformants within DHS that requires different classification of 

security clearances. 

Ms. NORTON. And if you go through the tunnel, you wouldn’t 

have any problem? 

Mr. EBADI. It depends on—— 

Ms. NORTON. And this tunnel is going to lead to every single 

place that you are going to want to go to in the DHS? You all are 

going to have to make out. I am not going to the appropriators and 

saying I need $10 million to help these people get across the street. 

I am going to have to justify every penny. You are not the one 

who has mandated. It is probably coming from DHS. But you are 

the one who builds it. You would be performing a miracle if you 

bring it within budget. 

And I don’t know why we need a tunnel underground for the employees. And I also think that that carries the implication of it 

being closeted from the community. So I don’t like the sound of it. 

I don’t think there’s a security reason for it. 

20 

It is true that in the capital, we have tunnels built long ago, 

when the cost of such tunnels was not very steep. You could make 

the case that you want—I suggest you don’t, but you could make 

that case that you wanted to protect people from the elements, to 

which I would say that is not what $10 million of Federal money 

should go to. 

So I have not heard the case. And I know this is not your job, 

Mr. Ebadi. 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. NORTON. But you can go back to your friends at the Department of Homeland Security to say that until I hear a better reason 

to dig a tunnel adding $10 million to this construction, until I hear 

a better reason than I have heard, that is one cost saving that the 

administration will get. 

The administration now is seeking all kinds of stretches in the 

budget. They have been generous to this project. But if the President were to call me in and say, ‘‘I don’t know. Why do they need 

this $10 million?‘‘ I would be tongue-tied. And I have to be able to 

articulate such expenditures. And I understand that they are of 

some comfort to employees. 

So far as I can understand, one agency that is going to be on the 

other side of the street, one agency. So there is only going to be 

one agency on the other side of the street. I don’t know why you 

would have a big rush of people that would require so much security or so much comfort that they couldn’t just cross the street 

since the majority of your agency is going to be right here on the 

West Campus. 

So put them on notice that we are already saying $10 million. 

I have only one more question that has to do with monitoring. 

Would you describe for the record what kind of monitoring of hiring 

and small business is being done on this property? 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. Basically there’s two steps of monitoring. 

One is basically a contractual requirement. That is, as Mr. Lawrence said, every proposal that comes to us on a competitive procurement process, it will state they’re a small business—— 

Ms. NORTON. Say it again. I’m sorry. I was distracted. I 

should—— 

Mr. EBADI. Sure. There are basically two steps of monitoring the 

small business opportunities. One is basically a contractual requirement. And when proposals come in, as Mr. Lincoln Lawrence 

mentioned, we looked at the proposed small business, basically, 

percentages. And then we monitor that throughout the project. Ms. 

Bonnie Echoles has been here with the team. And our construction 

agents basically have constant monitoring of payrolls and also 

small businesses—— 

Ms. NORTON. Well, you described what you’re doing to report to 

the company. 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. The other thing is actually beside the 

procurement on this project, we also report to your office, ma’am. 

And we are—— 

Ms. NORTON. It is really me and Mr. Diaz-Balart. We report to 

the Subcommittee—— 

Mr. EBADI. Yes, ma’am. 

21 

Ms. NORTON. —on the number of jobs, the number of small businesses, et cetera. 

Mr. EBADI. Every other week we report to the Subcommittee on 

both opportunities, the jobs, and the subcontracting, both awarded 

and opportunities throughout this, to the Subcommittee. 

Ms. NORTON. I lay that out because I really do not intend to be 

an answering service for people calling, ‘‘I need a new job, Eleanor.’’ You know, I need the record here. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. You get that as well? You get that as well? 

Ms. NORTON. Yes. But, you know, we are not expected to get jobs 

for people. I am only equipped to make sure that the contractors 

and the subcontractors are fulfilling their goals. So I just need to 

leave the documentation so that people will know it is happening 

or not happening. 

Mr. Diaz-Balart, do you have any questions? 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Ms. Norton, actually, I did, but you kind of 

went through them already. And, you know, it shouldn’t surprise 

anybody you know more about this project than anybody in the 

country. 

I want to just add to your statement about the saving of those 

$10 million. It would seem to me that we should probably wait 

until the thing is built. And then if there is this huge need where 

you have hundreds of people that are constantly crossing the street 

and that there is this huge need, then I think we all would be willing to look at it favorably. But I think that is before the $10 million 

is established, we should probably first see what the need is, what 

the real need is, if there is a security issue. 

So I once again agree with what I think is your very wise statement about let’s just try to save the $10 million if we can. And 

then we will see in the future if there is any there. We obviously 

ought to be—nobody wants for there to be any risk, but let’s see 

if we can slow that part out of it. 

So, again, once again we speak with one voice on that. Thank 

you, ma’am. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, I appreciate what you just said about it, Mr. 

Diaz-Balart. It is a security issue. This is one of the most secure 

facilities in the nation’s capital, but Mr. Ebadi was talking about 

different strokes for different folks, different security for different 

parts of this. That is the opposite of a security issue. 

But he, of course, is not the one who has come forward with this 

plan. So we will wait until the next hearing that we have on the 

Hill. In fact, we are having a hearing Thursday on the Hill. So we 

will put this question to those from headquarters who come to testify. 

Mr. Lawrence and Mr. Ebadi, we not only thank you for your testimony. We note that you are providing me with names and the 

rest. Your figures reflect that you, in fact, are on the road to meeting the goals. They do reflect more than a good faith effort. We 

need to lay it out so people could see it. And we need it to be 

known that this is the first of a number of hearings like that. 

We are going to be as transparent as we can about those projects 

so there won’t be questions and doubts in the community. The fact 

is that there is a long and sorry history of failure to employ people 

22 

in the District of Columbia. And that is a nationwide problem for 

people of color. 

The only way to break through it is to lay it out on the table and 

so people see for themselves that is exactly what you have done 

here. Today I have no quarrel with what you have stated. I can 

only state keep it up, gentlemen. Thank you very much. 

We go now to our final panel. And I am going to ask James 

Bunn, Beverly Thomas, Kathleen McKirchy, Cecil Bennett, Gabriel 

Stewart, and Yanic Hardie to take your seats. And, in that order, 

I will ask you to summarize your testimony. I am just going to go 

right down the line here, beginning with James Bunn, the Executive Director of the Ward 8 Business Council. 

Mr. Bunn? 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES BUNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WARD 8 

BUSINESS COUNCIL; BEVERLY L. THOMAS, PRESIDENT, REGIONAL CONTRACTING SERVICES, LLC; KATHLEEN 

McKIRCHY, DIRECTOR COMMUNITY SERVICES AGENCY, 

METROPOLITAN WASHINGTON, COUNCIL, AFL–CIO; CECIL 

BENNETT, OPERATOR, CLARK FOUNDATIONS; GABRIEL 

STEWART, LABORER, CLARK FOUNDATIONS; AND YANIC 

HARDIE, PRESIDENT, CEO, HARDIE INDUSTRIES 

Mr. BUNN. Good evening. I want to thank you, Congresswoman 

Eleanor Holmes Norton, the public, and distinguished guests. My 

name is James Bunn. I am the Executive Director of the Ward 8 

Business Council. 

I am delighted to be here tonight to testify before the Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public Buildings, and Emergency Management of the process on jobs and small business opportunities as the Department of Homeland Security construction 

begins in ward 8. 

I am strongly supportive of the GSA project. Now, we are keenly 

aware that the St. Elizabeths project is the largest of its kind in 

GSA history, I think. The Ward 8 Business Council is honored to 

be so meaningfully engaged in this project. 

In order to ensure that there is some sense of transparency, 

GSA, to their credit, made concerted efforts to reach out to the 

community very early on in this process. Over the years, we have 

held many, many meetings. And there were several key issues that 

kept resonating: jobs, minority contracting, commercial development on the north and south wall of the West Campus of St. Elizabeths on Martin Luther King, Jr. Avenue, environmental justice 

issues, their qualities, and unification. 

Tonight I would like to address three of these issues. First of all, 

I would like to applaud Congresswoman Norton, GSA, and Clark 

Construction for opening the opportunity. 

It is my understanding that over 2,000 people applied for jobs at 

this particular site. I clearly understand that the Federal Government cannot be persuaded to hire ward 8 residents only. However, 

in light of the fact that you are in our backyard, ward 8 matters. 

I understand today that it is reported that 500 or more D.C. ward 

8 residents have secured stable, permanent employment for this 

very historic project. 

23 

I highly applaud the extraordinary work that has been accomplished through extraordinary community outreach by the following people, Mr. Thomas James, Mr. Chris Mills, Mr. Shapour 

Ebadi, Ms. Bonnie Echoles, Mr. Diude Bathman, and Ms. LaJuan 

Stevens, in doing a good job on this diligent outreach endeavor. The 

community was quite adamant that jobs are a priority. This is for 

our residents and our community to improve their quality of life. 

We continue to meet with GSA and their partners on a monthly 

basis with the coordination of Councilman Barry’s office and GSA. 

The Ward 8 Business Council has worked tirelessly to help acquire 

the opportunities for our local CDEs. When we learned that the 

Federal Government required 8(a) certification, our Federal partners were eager to step up to the plate and help them become better informed about the 8(a) process. I am happy to announce that 

several small and local businesses were awarded contracts from 

ward 8. 

The GSA project is still relevant in the economic union that is 

generating growth in ward 8. The big contractors sometimes have 

a tendency to be a bit resistant to working with emerging small 

and local businesses. However, we have conquered that battle. 

Finally, it really strikes me that this the largest development 

project in the GSA history and that they currently are planning for 

commercialization on Martin Luther King, Jr. Avenue. And the 

East Campus is so far behind the eight ball. 

If we do not step up to the plate, the ward could lose millions 

of dollars in the form of disposable income. My greatest fear is that 

a customer base of 14,000 employees will be losing the opportunity 

for ward 8. Collaboration is the goal. We will not, and I repeat we 

will not, allow these dollars to unwillingly leave our community. 

Ms. Norton, I appreciate your astute observation about the 

amenities. We are hoping to work with Councilmember Barry’s office to look at the Members’ issues to form a committee. And, quite 

frankly, I hope that I will be the chair of that committee when it 

happens. 

I would like to thank Councilmember Barry and Brenda Richardson for their help to establish a valuable partnership and taking 

significant community building steps in this very massive undertaking and to you, Congresswoman Norton. This would not have 

been possible without all of your hard work and commitment to the 

residents of the District of Columbia. 

I hope all of you in this room remember there’s something great 

in the new ward 8. And I thank you. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, thank you, Mr. Bunn. 

The next witness is Beverly L. Thomas, President of Regional 

Contracting Services. 

Now, Ms. Thomas was our small business of the year, an annual 

award that we made. And it turns out that she had a contract for 

this very project. 

So would you please proceed with your testimony now, Ms. 

Thomas? 

Ms. THOMAS. Thank you. Good afternoon, Congresswoman Norton, Members of the Subcommittee on Economic Development. My 

name is—— 

Ms. NORTON. Can everybody hear her? 

24 

Ms. THOMAS. My name is Beverly Thomas. And I am the President of Regional Contracting Services. We are a certified 8(a) firm 

located here in the District of Columbia. We are also a CDE firm. 

We have been in the business here in the District of Columbia for 

nine years. 

At Regional, we have had the opportunity to work with Clark 

Construction for about seven years now as well as some other general contractors here in the community as well as some of the current contractors and subcontractors. And over the course of nine 

years, we have worked very, very diligently in developing good relationships with all of the general contractors as well as the Subcontracting Committee. Through that hard work, myself, my team, 

all the guys in the field, we are able to take those relationships further and competitively bid on the St. Elizabeths project. 

We were able to secure opportunities because we have those relationships. And I think that was really the most critical thing. And 

having those relationships when we did get those opportunities to 

bid, it wasn’t just a blind bid and it was just our name with so 

many others. It was based on the relationship, and that was critical. 

Currently we are not on the project because our sort of work has 

not come up yet. And so our plan in dealing with recruits, specifically ward 8 people because that’s really where the emphasis needs 

to be, we are going to use the same approach that we have always 

used. One, we always go to DOES, Department of Employment 

Services. 

The other way we always recruit for the job is through the Washington Hispanic newspaper because we definitely believe in inclusion of everyone. And we definitely look for people that are bilingual because that really gives us a competitive edge. And that to 

us is equally important. 

The additional way that we are looking at recruiting people for 

the project is something that we started about five years ago, 

which is an employee referral program. The employees that we 

have with us have been with us between five to six years. So obviously they are pretty happy working with us. And we actually pay 

a referral fee to employees to recruit other people. And they understand the requirements here in ward 8 as well as other District of 

Columbia people. 

Lastly, what we do, which has really been, I think, critical for 

our success, is that while a lot of companies will look at just putting laborers on a job, we don’t hire laborers. We look at people and 

say, ‘‘If you’re going to work here, you have to go to an apprenticeship school because we are a better company when everyone can 

work and do everything that is required of us.‘‘ 

So we have an improvement apprenticeship program here in the 

District of Columbia, which was approved by DOES, for our scope 

of work within carpentry training. We had that program since 

2003. So we have that training. 

We pay your training to make sure everyone is trained in first 

aid, CPR, those things that give us a very low rate in terms of accidents and a high rate with safety because that is important. And 

that is one of the ways that we have a competitive edge over other 

small businesses because of all of the training. 

25 

For us, it doesn’t stop there. What we also do, then, has helped 

us with Clark Construction and other contractors is that we spend 

a lot of money with outside agencies on what we like to call personal development training. Conflict resolution is critical. Diversity 

training for all of the people that work there is critical. Anger management is critical. 

So all of those things we spend time and money to teach everyone how to work through conflict because if you work on a construction job, there is a lot of conflict with scheduling the general 

contractors and all of the other subs. You have to have a way to 

work through that. 

So our goal for all of our employees is to give them the best technical knowledge possible, the best training possible, but also give 

them the required life skills that they will need. And because of all 

of those things, the regional team just continues to work very effectively, again, with Clark, other general contractors and other contractors. 

So we do thank you for having this opportunity to come before 

the Committee this evening. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you very much, Ms. Thomas. And, again, 

congratulations for your success in competitively winning the contract on the project. 

We will hear next from Kathleen McKirchy, Director of the Community Services Agency, Metropolitan Washington Council, AFL– 

CIO. 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Norton 

and Congressman Diaz-Balart. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to be here today and talk a little bit about the program that 

we are running. 

The Community Services Agency is the nonprofit arm of Metro 

Washington AFL–CIO, which is the area labor federation representing 175 local unions and about 150,000 area union members. 

Some of those affiliates are represented here in the audience today. 

Also the President of the Labor Council, Josh Williams, is here as 

well. 

As we testified last October, our agency won a contract from GSA 

to provide pre-apprenticeship training and job placement services 

to 265 area low-income residents, including women, minorities, 

youth, and ex-offenders. We are operating this program currently 

in conjunction with our partners: Wider Opportunities for Women 

and Covenant House DC. 

We also have partnerships with all of the area union-registered 

apprenticeship programs and with the associated general contractors of D.C. who are helping us with job placement. We also have 

arrangements with Prince George’s Community College and D.C. 

Department of Employment Services. And we have agreements 

with over 30 area community-based organizations who help us recruit clients and coordinate case management with us. 

We were awarded this contract effective October 1. It recently 

has been extended to provide for an additional 53 people. And we 

expect that we will be running those through at least February 

2011, possibly a few months past that. 

We have two deliverables. The first is to provide training to 233 

individuals. And our pre-apprenticeship training is very similar to 

26 

what Ms. Thomas was describing. It includes OSHA 10, which is 

the 10 hours of safety and health training, CPR and first aid, blueprint reading, orientation to the construction industry, construction 

map review, careers in construction, apprenticeships, unions, job 

potential, tools and materials, job readiness, and adult education 

components, an overview of the green energy field and career paths 

in green, and also hands-on experiences at our local union apprenticeship schools. 

To date we have trained or have in training with our current 

class 161 adults and youth, 105 of whom have been D.C. residents. 

Our second deliverable is to place at least 180 of these people into 

paid apprenticeship programs or directly into jobs. And to date we 

have placed 55 individuals, 35 of whom are D.C. residents. 

We have a regular weekly process at the opportunities trailer on 

campus. We do a couple of things there. We recruit area residents, 

mostly D.C. residents obviously, for our clauses. We are currently 

running a six-week class now. We are starting another adult class 

on July 19th. So we recruit some of our students from the folks 

who come through there. 

We also promote our graduates with the contractors who have 

presences in the opportunities trailer. And we are also working 

with individuals who have signed up at the trailer who may already have past construction experience. They won’t be in a preapprenticeship class, but they could use help with job placement. 

So we’re working on that as well. 

We have been also working with Clark Construction since the beginning. Last week, as was mentioned, our current youth class was 

given an overview of the project at the site and a tour of the site 

by the Clark Construction staff. The students were able to speak 

with managers and workers to get a better idea of what is required 

on construction jobs and various possibilities for careers in the construction industry. 

Although we haven’t placed any of our graduates on this project 

to date, we expect that we will be working closely with Clark and 

the subcontractors to do just that. As you know, the work is preliminary at the moment. And there have been fairly specific requirements for jobs at the moment; for example, the 250 truck drivers and some other technical jobs on the site. But we expect to be 

working with Clark as the project rolls out and get more people 

placed in apprenticeships and on jobs. 

I want to thank you again, Madam Chairwoman, for the leadership you have already played in securing the funds and helping to 

ensure that the stimulus dollars which are funding this project are 

benefitting D.C. residents and local residents in need. We are committed to continuing to operate a quality program which satisfies 

all of our deliverables and helps put our target population of local 

residents to work in great careers in the construction industry. 

Thank you. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you very much, Ms. McKirchy. 

We will hear next from Cecil Bennett, who is an operator for the 

Clark Foundations. 

Mr. BENNETT. Thank you. 

Good evening. My name is Cecil Bennett. I am an operator for 

the Clark Construction, also ward 8 resident. I went to a union apVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:05 Mar 24, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00036 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\57128.TXT JEAN
27 

prenticeship school and graduated as a journeyman operator. I am 

grateful for the opportunities given to me by Clark Construction 

and happy that I will be on this project. 

Thank you again. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you, Mr. Bennett. That’s all we needed to 

hear about that. The man’s got a job. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you. That was good news, Mr. Bennett. 

Let’s go now to Gabriel Stewart, who is a laborer with Clark 

Foundations. 

Mr. STEWART. Good evening, everyone. I am Gabriel Stewart, and 

I am a resident of ward 8. I am a laborer of Clark Construction 

and have been for five years. 

I am thankful for the opportunity that I have been given right 

here in my backyard. Even though the work I do is hard, dusty, 

and dirty, I enjoy it. And I am grateful that the Coast Guard 

project is here in ward 8. Thank you. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you, Mr. Stewart. 

And, finally, is it Yanic? 

Ms. HARDIE. It’s Yanic. 

Ms. NORTON. Yanic Hardie, President, SEP, Hardie Industries. 

Ms. HARDIE. Good afternoon, Chairperson Norton, Mr. DiazBalart, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am Yanic Hardie, 

President of Hardie Industries, Inc. And thank you for the opportunity to submit testimony on our company, the services we provide, and our experience associated with the redevelopment of the 

St. Elizabeths campus for the headquarters for the Department of 

Homeland Security. 

Hardie Industries, Inc. is a woman-owned construction company 

that offers design, build, preconstruction, construction management, general construction program, and project management, and 

various other construction services to meet a range of clients’ 

needs. We are an 8(a) CDE HUB zone small business. 

Formed in 1996, the company has built this reputation by the 

satisfactory completion of multiple projects over the last decade. 

Hardie Industries has a capacity to execute construction projects 

valued from 5,000 to $800 million. 

Our capacity has grown through years of hard work and our commitment to providing excellent service. We have serviced over 1,000 

engineering and construction task orders through design build, design bid, and turnkey construction delivery methods. 

As a result of our experienced commitment to safety and our 

commitment to providing quality construction service with responsive leadership, we currently have a bonding capacity of over 100 

million. 

As a local company in ward 8, we look forward to opportunities 

to work and partner with GSA and Clark Construction. We do that 

by providing local companies like Hardie Industries, Inc. with increased opportunities with the residents in ward 8 and the District 

of Columbia to obtain employment. 

As a company, we have partnered with local nonprofit groups to 

provide District residents, specifically ward 8 residents, with training and information to obtain employment in the construction inVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:05 Mar 24, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\57128.TXT JEAN
28 

dustry. We have partnered to offer courses and information to residents, whom we have subsequently hired on construction projects. 

Our services have included providing residents with access to 

courses on becoming construction flaggers and informing residents 

of the various training facilities and educational resources for 

trades in the construction industry, such as construction management. 

Our hope is that Clark Construction and GSA will work together 

to make an increased effort to provide viable contracts that will 

allow us to offer viable employment to District residents. 

We believe that Clark Construction’s and GSA’s commitment to 

the following will allow Hardie Industries and other local companies to successfully participate in the St. Elizabeths project: increase outreach to local business, providing forecasts of upcoming 

projects, community and opportunities to businesses. 

Hardie Industries currently has a small subcontract with Metro 

Total Joint Venture to provide hauling and dumping services for 

approximately six to eight months. This contract supports the excavation of soil and preparation of the St. Elizabeths site for the 

foundation. 

Our work started in April, on April 26, 2010. Since that time, approximately 5,700 truckloads of clean fill dirt has been delivered to 

our dump site. We have hired 19 employees as site superintendents 

and flaggers. We worked with the flagger training program, the 

flaggers, and hired seven local residents to work on the project as 

well. We will continue to train and hire from the local community 

for employment as those positions become available. 

Our overall observation and experience with this project is that 

there should be more monitoring and a third party organization to 

oversee matters and report on small and minority business goals. 

It is important that small businesses have a profitable experience as a result of this project. Winning a contract and losing 

money to deliver the service is not a successful venture for small 

businesses. In our opinion, GSA, Clark Construction are those in 

a position which needs to be mindful of this fact. 

Thank you again for this opportunity. 

Ms. NORTON. Thank you, Ms. Hardie, for that testimony. 

I am going to ask Mr. Diaz-Balart if he would like to begin the 

questioning. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. I appreciate that, Madam Chairwoman, particularly, as I said before, because of votes, I got here late. I am 

going to have to excuse myself early. So I will try to be brief in my 

questions, and I will try to ask you if you will be relatively brief. 

And I know that I would be able to follow up with you, Madam 

Chair, on other specifics. So, again, thank you. 

Mr. Bunn, are you satisfied with the work that is currently being 

done to hire locally and to use local businesses? 

Mr. BUNN. Well, I’m satisfied with the effort of work opportunities. I am not satisfied with the work because clearly, as the Congresswoman stated earlier, I think it has been more for the lack 

of miscommunication for the ward itself. If you ask anybody in the 

ward how many jobs are available, they are going to tell you 1,000 

jobs to 1,500 jobs. And there are 1,500 jobs, they’re saying, just 

29 

nothing to get part of the contract. So as the project moves on, 

there will be better opportunities. 

But I don’t think that is being communicated to the ward as well. 

And I work with GSA and Clark. We have been trying to do that. 

We are holding meetings. We are talking to people. But it is difficult. When people put out the word, that is not true. And that is 

the reason why this hearing is so important so the ward can hear 

some facts. And, as you know, just tonight some information is circulated that wasn’t true. And that is some of the things that we 

have to overcome. 

But overall the project is moving well. I think that there should 

be more opportunities for ward 8 residents and ward 8 CDs, even 

though the law says that you can’t do that. 

And, just to give you a short, brief thing about what I am talking 

about, when the 8(a) certification issue came out, I didn’t have anything to do but pick up the phone and call Bonnie and call a couple 

of other people there. And they didn’t need to respond to us. We 

couldn’t say that it was a ward 8 project. 

The congresswoman held a ward 8 certification day down at the 

Martin Luther King Library in Washington, D.C. And that was 

part of our efforts. And we really appreciate that. So those kinds 

of things would help us. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Thank you. 

Ms. Thomas? 

Ms. THOMAS. Yes? 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. How many jobs do you think, do you believe 

that your involvement in this project will actually create, if you 

know? 

Ms. THOMAS. Actually, I do. Congressman, the contract that we 

were awarded, it is a two-part contract. It’s with regard to the 

glass and glazing. Right now we have under contract 2.6 million to 

purchase the glass. We finally got the drawings to now bid on the 

actual work. And so based on the glass and glazing the curtain 

wall, that would actually create for us roughly 13 to 15 jobs. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Great. And you mentioned your efforts regarding training. Any idea how many of your trainees actually go to 

work on the actual project? 

Ms. THOMAS. Well, actually,—and I’m glad you asked that question—what we do is we put everyone through apprenticeship 

school. Because of that training, everything that they learned in 

apprenticeship school, they do learn the basics about blueprint 

reading, et cetera, et cetera. 

And then the second part of the training is all on-the-job training 

because it doesn’t matter what you read in a book. You won’t learn 

it until you apply it. So all of the training is all hands-on, and that 

is how they really learn and understand the carpentry field that 

we’re in. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Great. Thank you. 

Ms. McKirchy, in your testimony before the Subcommittee last 

October, you mentioned that 32 individuals will be trained through 

apprenticeship training program, right? That’s kind of a mouthful 

to me, but—and it was to prepare, I guess, entry-level positions or 

unskilled positions? And can you provide us with an update on that 

program? You had I think talked about that. But how is it going? 

30 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. It is going. They currently I think have 12 students in the class. It is a program that doesn’t have a time certain 

to it. It’s sort of modeled after the individual student. And so if the 

student can get where they need to be within six weeks, they rotate 

out into employment. If they need longer than that, they stay there 

until they’re ready to get employed. 

Those are not students that we are training directly through our 

pre-apprenticeship training directly through our pre-apprenticeship 

training, but those are students that we’re helping get the OSHA 

10 training and may need help with the job placement again. But 

those are folks that are definitely part of the project. And a few of 

those have been placed to date. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. I want to make sure I—it sounded like your 

testimony—it looks like you have a pretty good working relationship with Clark Construction and GSA regarding training. Is that? 

Did I hear that right? 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. We do, although we haven’t placed anyone yet on 

this project. All of our placements have been with other jobs 

around town. 

We are not limited. Even though we have been funded through 

GSA, we are not limited to placing people only on this project. Our 

job is to get people employed anywhere. And so we have been successful in that to date. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Are you finding major hurdles in order to place 

those trainees in either this job or in other jobs? I mean —— 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. Well, in general, I think there is about a 15 percent unemployment in the construction industry in the metro area 

at this time. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. So that is the biggie? 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. And that is the biggie. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. That is the big one? 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. Yes. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Other than that, other than that, as if that is 

not enough, right, any other real specific issues or you pretty much 

think that — I mean, again, employment is always going to be a 

factor. 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. Some of it has been employment. Some of it is 

the nature of the trainees that we graduate. Not all of them may 

have access to transportation. Some of the jobs that are available 

may not be in D.C. They are all over the metro area. And so we 

have to be able to get to them. And sometimes that is a bit of a 

hurdle. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Sure, sure. Thank you. 

I just have basically the same questions for both Mr. Bennett 

and Mr. Stewart, which is Mr. Bunn just mentioned how communication is a big part of it in getting the word out. So from your 

experience, what steps can be taken to ensure that job opportunities are publicized to the community, that people know that there 

were opportunities out there? Is there anything that you can think 

of that isn’t happening that should be happening as far as communication? 

And also there is one other question, whoever wants to do it. As 

part of the training programs, what programs do you all believe 

are, frankly, important or critical to preparing — you know, you all 

31 

went through it. I mean, you just mentioned, Mr. Bennett, your 

training program. 

What kind of training programs do you all think are essential to 

make sure that people do have the opportunity when they do come 

out with — we know with some of them. So those are the questions 

if you all want to try to kind of take six, seven. 

How did you hear about it? How did you hear about it specific 

to the jobs that are available, et cetera? 

Mr. BENNETT. Well, for me, I went through my union apprenticeship program. Clark hired union operators. And my local 77 sent 

me to apply. That is how I heard about the job, just being an employee for Clark. 

I think all the words is pretty much out there. You just have to 

take advantage of them, me personally because, like I said, I have 

gone through the apprenticeship program. I heard about it through 

the Unemployment Office. So it’s out there. You just have to take 

advantage of it. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Pursue it? 

Mr. BENNETT. Yes. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Pursue it and try to take advantage of it. 

Mr. Stewart? 

Mr. STEWART. Me personally, I didn’t hear about it. I just went 

out one day to see the man. I think that’s how I came upon working for Clark. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Seek and ye shall find. Those are reliable 

words, I’ll tell you. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Ms. Yanic Hardie? 

Ms. HARDIE. Yes? 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. That’s a beautiful name. 

Ms. HARDIE. Thank you. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. I understand you mentioned a little bit about 

your company. Is it true you also did some work in South Florida? 

Ms. HARDIE. Yes. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Good. I thought I liked you for something. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. How are you involved in this project and that 

kind of project? And then what do you love? And what do you hear 

about it to make you want to be for it? 

Ms. HARDIE. Well, as a small company—and we’re 8(a)—in the 

District, we’re always looking for contracts and opportunities to bid 

on and also opportunities to create opportunities for D.C. and ward 

8 residents. 

So we were aware that this project would become available 

today. And we had been in contact, for example, with the Ward 8 

Business Council. And we have gotten assistance and advice from 

them. They have been very, very helpful, Mr. Bunn in particular. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. So, actually, your answer is not much different 

from Mr. Stewart’s, which is you pursue it and hustle for it. 

Ms. HARDIE. That’s basically it, exactly. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Right. Now, as far as this, do you believe that 

GSA and Clark Construction, that their efforts, their outreach efforts, are sufficient for small businesses like yours and others? 

32 

Ms. HARDIE. We believe that they have made a good effort. And 

we would like to see an increased effort. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Very diplomatic answer. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Do you expect to be involved in other work beyond earthwork and demolition for this project? 

Ms. HARDIE. We have a tremendous amount of capacity. And our 

bonding capacities are truly high. As I indicated, it’s 100 million, 

which is pretty high for a small company. And we have grown, too. 

I mean, we have developed that over the years. 

So we are working. And I will be speaking with Mr. Lawrence 

after this session. We are looking for other opportunities, of course. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Madam Chairman, if I may? Again, I apologize 

to all of you for having to leave early. I don’t have to tell you all 

that I will be hearing about the rest of the meeting from somebody 

very close to me. 

And I want to thank you, Madam Chairman, for having this 

meeting. I think the witnesses that came before us today had a lot 

to say. I learned a lot. I look forward to continuing working with 

you. And, more importantly, I want to thank you for your leadership. 

As I mentioned before, I know this is repetitive, but I think it 

bears hearing because you don’t hear a lot of that these days. The 

Chairwoman and I may have a million differences and a million 

disagreements. 

However, on issues that are important, you will see that we come 

together, that we speak as one voice. And a lot of it is due to the 

Chairwoman’s ability to bring people together to focus on what is 

important. 

I want to thank you for this hearing. Again, I apologize for having to step out, but thank you for the opportunity. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, thank you, Mr. Diaz-Balart. There is no apology needed. And you were very good to come out at the end of a 

long day of work in voting to spend some time with us. 

And it is in keeping with the way in which Mr. Diaz-Balart has 

approached all of his work in this Subcommittee always working 

closely with me. There is no daylight between us. We both are trying to get things done, get things built and to hold GSA’s feet to 

the fire, among other things. So I thank you again very much, Mr. 

Diaz-Balart. 

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Madam Chairman, my apologies again. Thank 

you. 

Ms. NORTON. Let me ask Mr. Bunn first. You in your testimony 

indicated some concern about the development of the East Campus—— 

Mr. BUNN. Yes. 

Ms. NORTON. —and the planning for the commercialization of 

Martin Luther King Avenue. What is your concern? What do you 

believe are the tenements to this? Why don’t you think that will 

come naturally under this project and out of collaboration with the 

District of Columbia? 

Mr. BUNN. Well, early on before GSA was actually approved, we 

started communicating with GSA about this project. And we had 

the opportunity to be taken by Mr. Thomas James to one of their 

33 

other sites in White Oak in Maryland. And I had the opportunity 

to sit down and talk with the resident that spearheaded that. 

And we just don’t believe that we are getting the support that 

we should have gotten from a project this size for our community. 

The amenities that you talked about, I don’t think that’s been 

talked about enough. I don’t think people think that we really understand what that means. 

I will tell you, Congresswoman, we are very happy with the relationship that we have with GSA. But, having said that, if the 

mayor and the city does not start to work on the East Campus— 

and I know GSA is having some talk with them about it—we will 

have 14,000 people that will have nowhere to go and nothing to do 

in ward 8 other than work. 

Now, we are anticipating that—this is what is going on now. I 

mean, we have some homes in this ward before the price sink that 

was priced at $700,000, right on Mississippi Avenue, lovely homes. 

We anticipate that some of these 14,000 people will decide they will 

become residents of the District of Columbia, those that aren’t, and 

residents of ward 8. 

It doesn’t make sense not to drive across the bridge ten miles to 

get to a job you can walk right across the street to basically. So 

it’s just real negotiation. We talked about it. I met with GSA key 

people. And we had discussions about it. But we can’t seem to get 

GSA to formulate a real meaningful document that will say that, 

‘‘We are going to do these things’’ or ‘‘We are not going to do these 

things on the West Campus’’ to make sure that the East Campus 

and the rest of the ward has a chance to rejuvenate itself. 

I want to sit down with Mr. Lawrence. I love coming to your community, Councilwoman, because I come over there all the time and 

eat. I want to sit down in restaurants. I would love hanging out 

over there, but, you know, I understand all of those things take 

time. 

But if the government can spend an approximate $15 million 

from this thing in the second and third phase, then surely we can 

spend a few dollars to help make the surroundings of the people 

that’s going to be working here more beautiful and the people in 

the ward because I think part of the problem for the residents of 

the ward, the reason why you hear so much negative talk about 

ward 8 is because we haven’t been shown that somebody really 

cares about us. 

I mean, it is difficult to say that you want a job and somebody 

tell you that there’s 1,000 jobs. And, yet and still, there are 19 people working. 

Now, I will be the first to admit, Congresswoman, we have a lot 

of problems with our young men passing the drug test. We understand that. And I tell everybody in apprenticeship programs and all 

of this stuff, but me myself, I believe there is too much in training 

if you’re not going to tie training with jobs. The city is paying 

millings of dollars in training. And after six months, it goes away. 

So I am not going to take up all the time, but at some point I 

want to sit down and talk with you because these are some very 

serious issues facing the ward. 

Ms. NORTON. Well, your skepticism comes from a long history, 

Mr. Bunn. So I think one should approach. Particularly when you 

34 

see the Federal Government coming across the Anacostia the first 

time, the skepticism is what makes people do right. 

On the East Campus, the sequencing that we are working on 

now has to do with the West Campus. It doesn’t mean we won’t be 

working on the East Campus. The master plan does, in fact, in 

writing indicate that there will be a building on the East Campus. 

And all that the DHS has done so far, GSA has done so far, is to 

move in that direction. 

The city is cooperating. Its matters will be heavily involved in all 

of that. We can’t do commercial development for local communities. 

That has to be done by the local community. 

I can state for the record that the Federal Government will already build on land it owns. So to the extent that the Federal Government transferred that parcel in the 1980’s, the only way in 

which OMB or the Federal Government, the specific agency that 

has the say-so, is that we have had to work out some arrangement 

with the District of Columbia. You wouldn’t build a house on what 

you didn’t own. And we are not about to lease any part of this development. 

So we have talked to the District government about the quid pro 

quo, developing infrastructure there that would allow the amenities 

to spring up, and the Federal Government would build on land that 

it owned there as the only way we are willing to do it and that the 

OMB would allow us to do it. And we have been absolutely clear 

about that. So there is no getting around that. 

There are some things about this project and the Federal Government and the way it does real estate that I detest because they 

do not do real estate so that you can make deals easily because of 

all of the rules attached to doing it. 

But we have found—and I just wanted to lay to rest your concerns—the East Campus is part and parcel of this development. It 

is in the master plan. We can’t put that building over on the West 

Campus. And I think we are on the same page. 

I must say that I think you came with skepticism. When people 

see they have to show you, that’s how things get done. 

I’m going to ask Ms. Thomas. I am very interested in the fact 

that you have already filed for a competitive contract. Now, what 

is your business? You didn’t describe the kind of business you are 

in. 

Ms. THOMAS. Regional Contracting Services. We’re a carpentry 

company. So with carpentry, it’s furnishing, installing doors, 

frames, hardware, the individual type specialties, which are anything that goes into your restrooms. We do everything with blocking, with woodwork. In addition, installation of through-wall penetration, which is by a stop air barrier. So all of those things fall 

into carpentry. 

Ms. NORTON. How did you get into that? Are you the founder of 

the company? 

Ms. THOMAS. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. NORTON. How did you get into this business, Ms. Thomas? 

Ms. THOMAS. About nine years ago, when I moved ago here, I 

worked for a contractor. He was outside of the District of Columbia. 

And at that time, there was a lot of talk about building the D.C. 

Convention Center. 

35 

And, of course, the D.C. Convention Center at that time had a 

huge LSDBE requirement. So he actually presented me with an opportunity. He said, you know, ‘‘Did you ever think about going into 

business?’’ 

I was like, ‘‘I don’t really know about construction, you know, all 

that much.’’ But I looked into all the different opportunities in the 

District. And I had a few dollars saved up. And so I kind of literally 

took a leap of faith and found space in the District and got certified 

and pretty much started out by myself, just kind of as a onewoman show, and just really started beating the streets and beating the pavement, you know, got my brochures together, my business cards, and just went to any and every outreach out there for 

every small business opportunity out there, just literally one at a 

time. 

And the company started to grow. And then I was able to hire 

people. And here we are nine years later. 

Ms. NORTON. How many Federal contracts have you qualified 

for? 

Ms. THOMAS. Currently we’re actually under two Federal contracts now. 

Ms. NORTON. Nice to see you come. 

Ms. THOMAS. Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am. We qualified and successfully completed about eight or nine Federal contracts, not all in the 

District of Columbia, some in Virginia, some in Maryland. So this 

particular one would really be number nine. 

Ms. NORTON. That is a wonderful story. I would encourage everybody in this ward. Ms. Thomas wasn’t a born carpenter. She probably isn’t a carpenter yet. 

Ms. THOMAS. No. 

Ms. NORTON. But she is running a bunch of carpenters. It is a 

very inspiring story. 

Ms. McKirchy, you indicated you have placed some of your graduates. Now, yours is a pre-apprentice program. What kinds of 

places have you placed them? And since the pre-apprentice does 

not involve training for a craft, how do they become a part of the 

job structure where they are based? 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. A number of our graduates have gone on to be 

accepted into the union apprenticeship programs. That is our primary first choice to try to get people placement in those programs 

because they are earned while you learn, learn while you earn. And 

you end up with a portable credential that is readily accepted 

around the country once you complete these programs, as my 

neighbor here has done. 

So that is my first preference for placement, but we have also 

placed people, some with the Federal Government. We just placed 

one of our women with the Smithsonian. She is doing some building maintenance-type work. 

And it just depends on the individual client and what their interest happens to be, you know, where the person might end up. 

Ms. NORTON. The training can, especially on union jobs, really 

matter. The Step Up program that was used to build the Convention Center became a pool which proceeded a few years later to 

build the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. 

36 

Now, these two things may not seem to have much in common. 

The two witnesses here will tell you that when you learn a trade 

or craft, it is not related to the kind of building. It is related to the 

craft you have. 

Now, Mr. Bennett and Mr. Stewart, I have questions for you because one of the things I have found is a huge misunderstanding 

of what construction work requires. ‘‘Wow. People get to make that 

big money,’’ you know, you hear people saying, ‘‘Oh, you know, I 

can stand there with a flag’’ if they see people doing road work. 

They don’t understand. It beats digging a ditch. And he’s now raising the flag sometimes because they steer people from raising the 

flag to doing other parts of the work most of the time. 

Let me ask you both, what time do you have to get to work, gentlemen? 

Mr. STEWART. About 6:30. 

Ms. NORTON. How about you? 

Mr. BENNETT. 6:30–7:00. 

Ms. NORTON. I want everybody to hear that. 

Mr. STEWART. 6:30. 

Ms. NORTON. It does seem to me that it is a disservice not to rule 

out what this work is before the collapse of the economy in 2007, 

when we were working off of those bubbles that finally flew up on 

us there was a shortage of journeymen throughout the country. 

The reason there was a shortage of journeymen is that the baby 

boomer journeymen aging out, their sons don’t want to do this hard 

work. Their daughters don’t want to do this hard work. There are 

places for people who want to get up at 6:30 in the morning. 

Tell me precisely what kind of work each of you do. Mr. Bennett, 

what do you do all day? And do you do it through all kinds of 

weather? I need to have some sense of what your workplace life is 

like. 

Mr. BENNETT. Well, for me because I have the machines, I have 

to be here rain, sleet, snow. It may be 100 degrees out there. I have 

to be out there because I’ve got a closed cabin. So it’s really no—— 

Ms. NORTON. Is it air-conditioned, sir? 

Mr. BENNETT. I’ve been there four years. This is my first a/c machine. 

Ms. NORTON. All right. Good job. 

Mr. BENNETT. And, like I said, we have to be out there. I have 

to be out there because as long as there are guys out there who 

want to work, you have to have a machine out there. So I can’t be 

there saying, ‘‘It’s too hot that they can’t work.‘‘ I can’t say that. 

I have to stay out there because I have the machine. 

Ms. NORTON. Mr. Stewart? 

Mr. STEWART. Yes, ma’am. Mr. Stewart. And, first of all, it can 

be 80-plus degrees out there. And I’m a lagger. What I do there is 

I lift the things, secure the foundations so the buildings don’t collapse after they dig up. 

Ms. NORTON. Say that again. 

Mr. STEWART. Lagging. I lift boils that weigh just about as much 

as I do. And what I do with them boils, I line them up against two 

beams to keep the surface from caving in after they done dig out. 

Then I take picks and shovel and digs out beams and re-lag all 

beams. 

37 

Then I carry tie bags that weighs more than me. I help carry tie 

bags. It takes about every man we have out there to carry tie bags. 

And it’s all day constantly. 

Ms. NORTON. Do you work in the shade, Mr. Stewart? 

Mr. STEWART. No, ma’am. I work in the sun all day. And then 

I mix mortar—that’s the cement—with the mix machine for the tie 

bags. And I do several things around there. 

Then I secure that water flow around there with the water 

pumps. Then I come up here all day. You know what I’m saying? 

Doing different assignments. 

But I like what I do. So that’s what I keep doing. 

Ms. NORTON. Would either of you mind telling us what the hourly wage for people who do your kind of work is, beginning, let’s say 

beginning, what the hourly wage is? 

Mr. STEWART. Mines was, let me see, $13. 

Mr. BENNETT. Mines is, for me right now I’m making $30 and 

some change an hour. 

Ms. NORTON. Now? And you have health care as well, in addition? 

Mr. BENNETT. Yeah. I get health care, dental. 

Ms. NORTON. You’re a union man? 

Mr. BENNETT. Yeah, union. My union is very strong. 

Ms. NORTON. And, Mr. Stewart, are you employed pursuant to a 

union as well or—— 

Mr. STEWART. I never have, no. I started off getting 13. I don’t 

get 13 now. I’m getting 20–22 an hour now. 

Ms. NORTON. Both of you all earn every cent of that. I couldn’t 

do what you do for ten minutes. And when I hear people talk 

about, ‘‘I can do that work,’’ I think they show disrespect for what 

it takes to do what you do, disrespect if they really think this is 

like doing it in your garden, doing it until you get hot, going in and 

getting some lemonade. 

What breaks do you get, sirs, both of you? 

Mr. STEWART. You handle that. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. BENNETT. Well, I get a ten-minute break. That’s at 9:00 

o’clock. 

Mr. STEWART. About the same. 

Ms. NORTON. And then you get a lunch hour? 

Mr. STEWART. No, no lunch hour. 

Mr. BENNETT. No lunch hour. 

Ms. NORTON. When do you leave, sir? 

Mr. BENNETT. When you get home, when the work is done. 

Ms. NORTON. What are the hours? 

Mr. BENNETT. Well, from 6:30 to 2:30. It’s pretty much on us. We 

kind of like have it set up that way. So if we take lunch, we have 

to stay to 3:00 o’clock. If we want to beat like the rush hour traffic, 

the heat, that’s on us. 

Mr. STEWART. Yeah. It’s our choice. And then sometimes we work 

overtime. That’s our choice. So that’s on us. 

Ms. NORTON. This is very important to hear. And it’s not the first 

time I’ve heard it. They work long hours to get off. And they’re 

doing hard work. And they make sense. They make a lot of sense. 

This is not people still in some office with time to spare. 

38 

It’s very important to lay that out for the record because it is little known, little known, and little understood. 

Ms. Hardie, I would like to ask you about what you discuss in 

your testimony about the difficulty of winning a small business 

contract because you may lose money in the process. What are you 

referring to? 

Ms. HARDIE. Well, we believe that for us we have to have more 

opportunities. And we have to be competitive. And there just have 

to be more opportunities for small businesses. We have the ability. 

We have the capacity. And we have the bonding. 

Ms. NORTON. I’m not talking about that. Perhaps I misread your 

testimony. 

Ms. HARDIE. OK. 

Ms. NORTON. Where you discussed the difficulty in small businesses first getting a contract but then going all the way to make 

a profit, as you anticipated, why? 

Ms. HARDIE. Sure. Congresswoman, when we build contracts, it 

is important for small businesses to understand that there are different fees and payments that have to be made from the contract. 

So it is important for businesses to understand that you have to 

have a profit margin. And so it is how you approach a contract. 

And it is also the opportunity that is presented. 

Ms. NORTON. Because if you don’t do your figures correctly, this 

may not be contracted to you? 

Ms. HARDIE. Exactly. You can lose. 

Ms. NORTON. You have had contracts before. 

Ms. HARDIE. Absolutely. 

Ms. NORTON. Like Ms. Thomas, you’ve gotten several contracts 

before? 

Ms. HARDIE. Yes. 

Ms. NORTON. How many contracts have you had in the past? 

Ms. HARDIE. We have had over, I would say over, 100. We have 

done over 1,000 task orders. Again, we have been in business since 

1996. 

Ms. NORTON. What is your role with the business? 

Ms. HARDIE. I started the business. 

Ms. NORTON. Another one here. 

Ms. HARDIE. Yes, with a baby in one arm. We are a womenowned construction company. We do design build. We do everything. We are a construction—— 

Ms. NORTON. I’ll ask you the same question I asked Ms. Thomas. 

She was fairly unlikely to be in the carpentry business. What was 

your background that enabled you to go into business? 

Ms. HARDIE. OK. I started out as an attorney. And I started renovating my own home and decided, ‘‘I love doing this.’’ And from 

there, I said, ‘‘If I can renovate my own home, make it beautiful, 

I can do it for other people.’’ 

So I started studying about how to do home improvements, home 

building. I sat for different exams and basically with a steel-toed 

boot and hard hat just developed the company, started bidding on 

Federal contract work, getting 8(a)-certified, CDE-certified, and 

pretty much just pretty much forcing our way through. 

Ms. NORTON. Again, anybody who it seems to me hears you and 

hears Ms. Thomas understands that what it takes is not a lot of 

39 

wishing but a lot of hard. And it is very apparent and inspiring to 

hear both of you describe that. 

Ms. McKirchy, pre-apprenticeship programs turn out to be very 

important. Now, I have to ask you, isn’t it the case that pre-apprenticeship programs help you get to people like Mr. Stewart and 

Mr. Bennett because some people simply have to rush out of such 

programs when they get to understand what really construction, 

for example, really entails. 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. Well, there are a certain amount of people that 

get into it without knowing what it is. And so pre-apprenticeship 

can certainly open their eyes about what is required and what the 

jobs are. 

In our case, we have gone to a sort of a three-step interview and 

approval process before we take people in. And we try to look for 

people that have had some exposure to the industry in some way, 

shape, or form that know a little bit about what the construction 

industry is all about. 

But then we also interview people. They have to take a type test 

and pass an eighth grade reading and math because the union apprenticeship programs and many of the other apprenticeship programs require eighth grade reading and math. The days when anybody could kind of walk in off the street and get a good construction job are kind of gone. You have to have some ability to master 

math and other skills in construction. 

And we try to make it very clear to people what it is that this 

work entails. It is not 9:00 to 5:00. It is outside. It is noisy. It is 

dirty. It is hot. It is cold. There is a chance of being injured. You 

know, you work at different job sites throughout your work career. 

You are not going to an office every day. 

So we try to before we accept people into the program make them 

understand what the jobs are. And I think we have gotten to the 

point where we are doing a pretty good job of getting those people 

who truly have an interest and an aptitude in doing this kind of 

work. 

Ms. NORTON. It might be an interesting experience simply to one 

day out of the training period take the class over to where Mr. Bennett and Mr. Stewart are working on a hot day. 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. We just did that last week, as a matter of fact. 

We have 18 to 24-year-olds in our current pre-apprenticeship class. 

And we went to the site last Thursday. And they trooped around 

the veneer. And they saw these gentlemen at work. 

And not a single person having seen that said, ‘‘Oh, I’m in the 

wrong place.’’ It piqued their interest. It came them a better, realistic idea of what these kinds of jobs are like and what this kind 

of work is like. And I think it made for a better student, actually, 

to have seen that. 

Ms. NORTON. Mrs. Thomas and Ms. Hardie, are you able—let me 

put it this way. You heard me question Clark about hiring local 

residents. Let me ask you about hiring local residents, small businesses. Could you tell me whether you have hired local residents 

for this job? 

I know you may not be on the job yet. If not, how do you intend 

to be held accountable as Clark is being held accountable in many 

other subcontracts, all the other subcontractors as well? 

40 

Ms. HARDIE. May I? OK. Thank you. 

We are actually performing right now. And what we have done 

on our own is to form an alliance with certain nonprofits in the 

ward. And if you come to our office at 1567 Alabama Avenue, you 

will see that we have different documents, even on our front door, 

where we say, you know, ‘‘We are offering flagger training.’’ 

So we hold flagger training courses on our own and with these 

nonprofits. And we also have different documents in our officers 

that we provide to ward 8 residents on how to enter the construction industry. 

Again, this is not something that is forced upon us. This is something that we want to do because we care about the community 

and we care about making sure that this is a great community for 

everyone. 

Ms. NORTON. Ms. Thomas? 

Ms. THOMAS. The way that we recruit—and it is specifically for 

this particular project, ward 8—one of the first places that we always go to is DOES, Department of Employment Services. They 

are so receptive to you contacting them. I can’t say enough good 

things about them. 

And we would take it a step further. The Office of Apprenticeship 

within DOES, we can call them. We have their numbers in our cell 

phones. ‘‘This is the job. This is what I’ve got coming up.’’ And, you 

know, we are very honest, ‘‘We have a requirement for ward 8.’’ 

We have roughly seven to eight guys that are currently on our 

staff that are District residents and two that live in ward 8. So 

then with our employee referral program, you know, we have a 

phone meeting every month. And it’s ‘‘OK, guys. We have this job 

coming up. It is coming up in about a month.’’ And we send out 

our referral, employee referral, with the payroll checks to everybody. 

And we can specify ‘‘We need people in ward 8.’’ And, again, because most of our employees have been with us five-plus year, they 

can tell our story better than anyone. And with the referral program, it is real simple. You bring me a guy. He passes the drug 

screen. After 30 days, you get $50. After 60 days, you get another 

$50, After 90 days, you get another $50. 

So the reason we pay the employees, because one is a lot cheaper 

than all the other kind of advertising to recruit. The other thing 

is they do not refer anyone to me that’s not going to have the same 

work ethic because they want the money. They don’t want to be 

embarrassed because then I’m hesitant to hire somebody else 

again. 

So the thing is that retaining good quality employees will, in 

turn, have them recruit and bring good quality employees to you. 

So it is real simple for us. 

Ms. NORTON. It’s really simple. It is a great incentive. And I am 

sure it holds—it leads to great collegiality within the company. 

Now, I am going to ask you, Ms. Hardie, you heard me perhaps 

ask the first panel about the allegation of some subcontractors like 

you, that there are contractors who try to use them to mete goals. 

And they don’t even get to do the work. Has anybody ever tried to 

do that to you? And what was your reaction if so? 

41 

Ms. HARDIE. Well, as a woman in the construction industry, people try a lot of things. But we make it clear that we intend to perform on every single contract. We hire our own staff. We hire from 

the ward. We hire our own superintendents. We hire our own 

workers. And we expect them to have work on our contracts. 

Ms. NORTON. No. I’m talking about you working for a contractor—— 

Ms. HARDIE. Right. 

Ms. NORTON. —and he uses you or Ms. Thomas to meet his goals. 

Have you ever had the experience where he’s used you for that purpose but did not want to give you the work that was done, essentially paid off people to get lost while the work got done? Have you 

ever had anybody to try to do that? 

Ms. HARDIE. In our extensive experience, yes, we have. And we 

just have had to make it clear we have a contract and we intend 

to perform on the contract. 

Ms. NORTON. Have you ever had that experience, Ms. Thomas? 

Ms. THOMAS. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And everyone sees the 

work. It’s called passthrough work. And you’ve seen it at every 

level. 

The biggest thing that you have to, as Ms. Hardie says, is that 

you really don’t want to use the work. And I’m just going to keep 

you paying. You have to muscle the contractor. And then you also 

have to use muscle with the general contractor to say, ‘‘Listen,’’ 

XYZ ‘‘contacted me. We know there is a small business requirement, a minority requirement,’’ et cetera, et cetera. ‘‘I need your 

help, Mr. General Contractor, to make sure they carve out work for 

me.’’ 

You know, the fact is is that truly we don’t have the capacity 

that Ms. Hardie does, but we are a legitimate contractor where we 

can bond our jobs up to $15 million. So, therefore, we have capacity. 

And what you have to do—and it is a very delicate balancing act 

because you want to not look at just the St. Elizabeths project or 

some other project. It builds synergy between your company and 

this prime contractor. It is a very delicate balancing act, but you 

have to have the general contractor assist you in forcing them to 

carve out work, let them see that you can perform it on task, on 

schedule, on time, get it right, work safely, and then start to 

change the mindset that they look at you not as a woman, a minority, a CDE, an 8(a), but a legitimate contractor they can go to market with. 

It does take time. It does take time. But if you perform, then you 

are putting your company in a position for that prime contractor 

to have a strategic partner to go to market with time and time 

again. And that is the very delicate balancing act. 

It can be done. It is challenging. Not all the prime contractors 

are interested. They do want to use you as a passthrough. And that 

is when you have to make a conscious decision to say, ‘‘Do I take 

this little three or four percent or do I just walk away from it and 

make a stand for what is right?’’ And that is the responsibility of 

the small business. 

You can’t cry ‘‘Foul,’’ Congresswoman, to say, ‘‘Oh, they just used 

me as a passthrough.’’ You have the opportunity to say, ‘‘No,’’ not 

42 

sign the contract, use some leverage to get the work. But if you 

take it and you sign it, you can’t back out.’’ 

Ms. NORTON. Well, I can see why you have been so successful. 

No whining here. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. NORTON. Ms. Hardie? 

Ms. HARDIE. Well, I think, to piggyback on that,—and that is 

what I mean by having steel-toed boots and a hard hat—you have 

to have business savvy in this industry. You have to know how to 

read a contract. You have to know how to budget. You have to have 

good staff, like we do. 

We have our own CFO, who is a CPA, on staff. She sits two, and 

I say she sits two, doors down from me. So you have to have the 

staff in place to make these good decisions and to be able to say, 

‘‘Hey, we can do the work. Look at our past performance. Look at 

the projects we have done. We are an excellent company. If you 

give us an opportunity, we are not going to let you down.’’ 

Ms. NORTON. I’m going to close by asking Mr. Bennett and Mr. 

Stewart a question. You had to take drug tests in order to get work 

at these projects. Is that not the case? 

Mr. BENNETT. Yes, ma’am. 

Mr. STEWART. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. NORTON. Are you tested more than once? 

Mr. BENNETT. Yes, ma’am. 

Mr. STEWART. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. NORTON. Tell me about how that occurs. 

Mr. STEWART. Randomly. 

Ms. NORTON. Random testing? 

Mr. STEWART. Right. 

Ms. NORTON. You, too, Mr. Bennett? Are you random tested? 

Mr. BENNETT. Yes, ma’am. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. NORTON. Let the record reflect that Mr. Bennett said yes. 

Again I wanted to have on the record and I want to indicate that 

this hearing is on the record, just as the hearing on Thursday on 

GSA. And the construction program will be on the record. The only 

difference is that one is being at the Rayburn Building, and this 

one was at St. Matthews Memorial Annex. It is the same kind of 

hearing. 

The reason I have gone to some lengths to ask you questions is 

I wanted to get on the record not only for the benefit of the Congress and the decisions we make but for the benefit of the community that Mr. Bunn testified about what he called communication 

I call various expectations when people heard that this great big 

thing was coming here, the biggest construction project in the 

United States of America today. It is so big we call it a ‘‘compound.’’ It is not a building. It is a series of buildings. 

And when you hear that, some people see the dollar signs. They 

don’t see the work. And the reason they don’t see the work is not 

because they are lazy or dumb. It’s because they have not had the 

opportunity to learn what it takes to become what Ms. Thomas and 

Ms. Hardie have become, to become what you, Mr. Bennett, and 

you, Mr. Stewart, have become, to do what Mr. Bunn has done, to 

redirect, to reorient his community to believing that they can get 

43 

contracts and then preparing them to do so and for doing what Ms. 

McKirchy has to do, which is essentially put people through a 

version of a boot camp. And the survivors then go on. 

Most people do not face such construction in the first place. So 

they have no reason to know what the pattern has told us today. 

We wanted to get it on the record. And we want to make sure that 

the community, ward 8 and throughout the District of Columbia, 

understands that this is a once-in-a-millennium opportunity. 

The Federal Government simply no longer builds much. We lease 

much more than we build. We are going to be leasing even a part 

of this project. So the notion of the Federal Government spending 

this much money in building a compound, a series of buildings, 

means that this is an opportunity for business to learn and grow 

and for employees to learn and grow of the kind you will not see 

in this city again in your lifetime I have to tell you because every 

plot of ground is already built on. 

The only thing that comes close to what we are doing today, 

there are two periods in American life that come close. One is when 

they built the Pentagon. But what is most like this period is what 

FDR did during the New Deal. 

Virtually everything you see on Constitution Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue was built as a stimulus project just the way this 

was. And to get the money out of the Congress, I went to them and 

said, ‘‘If you are ever going to do it, then you need to do it at a 

parallel time to what FDR did. If you’re going to do it, it won’t 

make a lot of sense to start doing it when it costs more to build 

ten years from now, when there are a lot of people vying for jobs. 

If you’re going to do it, you can do it when people need it now. And 

you can help us get out of a recession now.’’ 

This is a long-term project that’s going to provide jobs for people 

like you and businesses, like you, if they want to take advantage 

of this opportunity. Ut we cannot expect that people are born into 

this world understanding what it takes to qualify to do the work 

on such a project. 

So I have regarded your testimony as invaluable. This has been 

an official hearing for the record. We are going to take parts of this 

hearing as they become relevant so that the community understands exactly what it is that you do. We are going to submit parts 

of your testimony, Mr. Bennett and Mr. Stewart, to the apprenticeship programs so that they can hear exactly what it takes. 

When they opened the Opportunity Center, we asked for an apprentice to be there. It happened to be a plumber’s apprentice. And 

there he was, a young man like you, not overweight, fit. And he 

told us what it’s like. He said, yeah, he had to be there at 6:30. 

And he was in his third year. I think it’s four years to be a 

plumber, four years. He was in his third year. Well, you see, by 

that time, I was out of law school. This young man had another 

year to go. And he not only worked every day doing the kind of 

hard labor you do, but he had to go at night two nights a week to 

class. And he was slim and happy. You know, he was ready for 

hard work. 

So the best preparation we can make for our young people is to 

let them see for themselves or hear for themselves the kind of testimony you have given. 

44 

We didn’t plan it this way, Ms. Thomas and Ms. Hardie, that 

there would be two women on, but that is the way life is. And we 

have been very inspired that women have owned companies in nontraditional work because if they can do this, it seems to me it sends 

its own message or testimony very valuable to us, very inspiring 

to hear. 

Ms. McKirchy, I have known you for some time and the work of 

Metropolitan Council AFL–CIO. I am not surprised that you won 

this competitive contract. I was at your first graduation, very inspired by it. I should have asked you, were there any more women? 

There was one woman in that class. 

Ms. MCKIRCHY. There are more. 

Ms. NORTON. But there are more women now? These classes are 

open to men and women. I mean, you see the women out on the 

streets where they are laying roads, holding the flag. Those women 

have got to go back and do hard work, too. It is just their time to 

hold the flag. 

And, of course, Mr. Bunn, you have been an inspiration to this 

entire project and to this entire community. When the community 

sees one of their own keeping track of what is happening, it inspires their confidence. And that confidence has been very important and very important to GSA. 

GSA has lived up to that confidence so far. And our job, particularly my job as Chair of the Subcommittee with jurisdiction over 

this project, is to make sure everybody stays on the same page. I 

do not play doctor. When there is some issue, people just come to 

me. We try to straighten it out. We don’t have a hearing on every 

issue. We say the hearings to you point in the project to where they 

can tell us something we don’t know and where they can tell the 

community something that it may not know. 

So on behalf of the Subcommittee—I know I speak for Mr. DiazBalart. There are, of course, other Members of the Subcommittee. 

I want to thank all of you for truly useful and beneficial testimony 

that will help us to make this truly a great project. 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 8:22 p.m., the foregoing matter was concluded.] 

45 


Insert offset folio 6 here 57128.006
46 


Insert offset folio 7 here 57128.007
47 


Insert offset folio 8 here 57128.008
48 


Insert offset folio 9 here 57128.009
49 


Insert offset folio 10 here 57128.010
50 


Insert offset folio 11 here 57128.011
51 


Insert offset folio 12 here 57128.012
52 


Insert offset folio 13 here 57128.013
53 


Insert offset folio 14 here 57128.014
54 


Insert offset folio 15 here 57128.015
55 


Insert offset folio 16 here 57128.016
56 


Insert offset folio 17 here 57128.017
57 


Insert offset folio 18 here 57128.018
58 


Insert offset folio 19 here 57128.019
59 


Insert offset folio 20 here 57128.020
60 


Insert offset folio 21 here 57128.021
61 


Insert offset folio 22 here 57128.022
62 


Insert offset folio 23 here 57128.023
63 


Insert offset folio 24 here 57128.024
64 


Insert offset folio 25 here 57128.025
65 


Insert offset folio 26 here 57128.026
66 


Insert offset folio 27 here 57128.027
67 


Insert offset folio 28 here 57128.028
68 


Insert offset folio 29 here 57128.029
69 


Insert offset folio 30 here 57128.030
70 


Insert offset folio 34 here 57128.034
71 


Insert offset folio 31 here 57128.031
72 


Insert offset folio 32 here 57128.032
73 


Insert offset folio 33 here 57128.033
74 


Insert offset folio 35 here 57128.035
75 


Insert offset folio 36 here 57128.036
76 


Insert offset folio 37 here 57128.037
77 

Æ 


Insert offset folio 38 here 57128.038