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IMMIGRATION AND THE ALIEN GANG EPIDEMIC:

PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION, 

BORDER SECURITY, AND CLAIMS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

APRIL 13, 2005

Serial No. 109–8

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.house.gov/judiciary 

(II)

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., Wisconsin, Chairman 

HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois 

HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina 

LAMAR SMITH, Texas 

ELTON GALLEGLY, California 

BOB GOODLATTE, Virginia 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

DANIEL E. LUNGREN, California 

WILLIAM L. JENKINS, Tennessee 

CHRIS CANNON, Utah 

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama 

BOB INGLIS, South Carolina 

JOHN N. HOSTETTLER, Indiana 

MARK GREEN, Wisconsin 

RIC KELLER, Florida 

DARRELL ISSA, California 

JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 

MIKE PENCE, Indiana 

J. RANDY FORBES, Virginia 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

TOM FEENEY, Florida 

TRENT FRANKS, Arizona 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

JOHN CONYERS, JR., Michigan 

HOWARD L. BERMAN, California 

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia 

JERROLD NADLER, New York 

ROBERT C. SCOTT, Virginia 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

MARTIN T. MEEHAN, Massachusetts 

WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts 

ROBERT WEXLER, Florida 

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York 

ADAM B. SCHIFF, California 

LINDA T. SA ́ NCHEZ, California 

ADAM SMITH, Washington 

CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland

PHILIP G. KIKO, Chief of Staff-General Counsel 

PERRY H. APELBAUM, Minority Chief Counsel 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION, BORDER SECURITY, AND CLAIMS

JOHN N. HOSTETTLER, Indiana, Chairman

STEVE KING, Iowa 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

LAMAR SMITH, Texas 

ELTON GALLEGLY, California 

BOB GOODLATTE, Virginia 

DANIEL E. LUNGREN, California 

JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 

BOB INGLIS, South Carolina 

DARRELL ISSA, California 

SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas 

HOWARD L. BERMAN, California 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

LINDA T. SA ́ NCHEZ, California 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

MARTIN T. MEEHAN, Massachusetts

GEORGE FISHMAN, Chief Counsel 

ART ARTHUR, Counsel 

LUKE BELLOCCHI, Full Committee Counsel 

CINDY BLACKSTON, Professional Staff 

NOLAN RAPPAPORT, Minority Counsel 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

APRIL 13, 2005

OPENING STATEMENT 

Page 

The Honorable John N. Hostettler, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of Indiana, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Immigration, Border 

Security, and Claims ............................................................................................ 1

The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of Texas, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Claims ..................................................................................... 30

The Honorable Steve King, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of Iowa ................................................................................................................... 33

The Honorable Maxine Waters, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of California .......................................................................................................... 39

The Honorable Daniel E. Lungren, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of California ................................................................................................ 41

WITNESSES 

The Honorable Michael J. Garcia, Assistant Secretary for Immigration and 

Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Oral Testimony ..................................................................................................... 3

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 5

Ms. Marsha L. Garst, Commonwealth’s Attorney for Rockingham County, 

Virginia 

Oral Testimony ..................................................................................................... 7

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 10

Ms. Heather Mac Donald, Senior Fellow, The Manhattan Institute 

Oral Testimony ..................................................................................................... 12

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 14

Ms. Mai Fernandez, Chief Operating Officer, Latin American Youth Center 

Oral Testimony ..................................................................................................... 26

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 27

APPENDIX 

MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING RECORD

Prepared Statement of the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Representative 

in Congress from the State of Texas .................................................................. 45

Letter from the Latin American Youth Center submitted by the Honorable 

Sheila Jackson Lee ............................................................................................... 46

Letter from the City of Houston submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson 

Lee ......................................................................................................................... 48

(1)

IMMIGRATION AND THE ALIEN GANG 

EPIDEMIC: PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 2005

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION,

BORDER SECURITY, AND CLAIMS, 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, 

Washington, DC.

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:22 p.m., in Room 

2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. John N. Hostettler 

(Chair of the Subcommittee) presiding. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. The Subcommittee will come to order. 

Today’s Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and 

Claims hearing will examine the alien gang epidemic that is facing 

the United States. At this hearing we will examine the role of 

aliens in gang crimes, investigate the immigration factors that 

have shaped the gang epidemic facing this country, and assess the 

use of the immigration laws in controlling alien gang crime. 

While there are an estimated 750,000 to 850,000 gang members 

in the United States today, there are no firm estimates on how 

many of those gang members are aliens and how many are citizens. 

What is apparent, however, is that gang crime is a growing problem. Over 631 gang-related homicides occurred in 2001, and by 

2003, the number of gang killings had jumped to 819. In addition 

to homicide, gang members have been directly linked to the narcotics trade, human trafficking, document fraud, and violent assaults. 

It is also apparent that aliens are members of many of the most 

violent gangs in America. Reports have indicated that 60 percent 

of California’s 18th Street Gang are illegal aliens. This gang is reportedly ‘‘involved in many types of criminal activities, including 

auto theft, carjacking, drive-by shootings, drug sales, arms trafficking, extortion, rape, murder for hire, and murder.’’ Similarly, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, has 

reported that, ‘‘The majority of MS-13 members are foreign nationals in this country illegally.’’ Newsweek has termed MS-13, which 

has an estimated 20,000 members in the United States, ‘‘the most 

dangerous gang in America.’’ It has even been alleged to be negotiating with al Qaeda to smuggle terrorists into our country. 

It is also apparent that aliens are key members of these dangerous gangs. Lester Rivera Paz, the reputed leader of MS-13’s 

Honduran branch, was arrested in Texas in February after escaping from his native country where he’s wanted in connection with 

2

a bus ambush. In the past 4 years, Paz has reportedly been deported four times by Federal authorities. 

In addition, it is apparent that even younger members of our immigrant communities have become involved in gang violence. For 

example, the April 6, 2005, Washington Post reported on a ninth 

grader who was stabbed and beaten with baseball bats outside Manassas Mall. A Prince William County Police Department spokesman stated the victim has been associated with the South Side 

Locos gang, and that the suspects are believed to be members of 

the rival gang ‘‘Sureno-13.’’

In response to the threat posed by alien gang members in the 

United States, in March ICE launched ‘Operation Community 

Shield,’ an anti-gang initiative that is targeting members of MS-13 

in six cities nationwide. To date, ICE agents, working with their 

Federal, State, and local counterparts, have arrested more than 

150 MS-13 gang members nationwide for immigration violations. 

Some critics have complained, however, that flaws in our current 

immigration system hinder efforts to use the current immigration 

laws to curtail the alien gang epidemic. For example, some have 

pointed to so-called ‘sanctuary’ laws that prohibit State and local 

law enforcement officers from contacting immigration authorities 

about illegal aliens, even if they are previously deported criminals. 

Such laws require the police to wait until those illegal aliens prey 

on the public before they can act. 

Some have asserted that temporary protected status, or TPS, has 

also protected alien gang members who would have otherwise been 

deportable. In January, the Government announced an 18-month 

extension of TPS for El Salvador, the home country of many MS13 members currently in the United States. The Subcommittee has 

been told that two of the three alleged MS-13 members charged in 

the 2002 rape of two deaf girls in Massachusetts had applied for 

TPS prior to that attack, and that one was actually granted that 

relief. 

Finally, the lack of a ground of removal for gang membership has 

been cited as a hurdle to using the immigration laws to remove 

alien gang members from the United States. The Subcommittee 

will assess whether additional resources or authorities are necessary to make our immigration laws an effective tool for the Government in responding to the gang problem facing our country. 

At this time the Chair will now recognize Members for an opening statement, if they have any. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. There being no opening statements, we will 

now turn to an introduction of our witnesses before us. 

Michael Garcia has served as the Assistant Secretary for U.S. 

Immigration and Customs Enforcement since November 25, 2003. 

Just prior to his appointment, Mr. Garcia was Acting Commissioner of the former Immigration and Naturalization Service. He 

has also served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in New York City 

working on high-profile terrorism cases. Mr. Garcia is a graduate 

of the State University of New York at Binghamton. He received 

his law degree from the Albany Law School, where he was valedictorian. 

3

Now I would to introduce Marsha Garst, but I yield to the gentleman from Virginia to introduce his constituent, Commonwealth’s 

Attorney Marsha Garst. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for holding 

this hearing on this very important issue and for allowing me this 

privilege. 

Marsha Garst is the Commonwealth’s Attorney for the County of 

Rockingham and the City of Harrisonburg, Virginia, and in this position she has prosecuted hundreds of civil and criminal cases with 

an emphasis on capital murder and narcotics. She has previously 

worked in the private sector with a law firm in that area, and she 

has been named the Business and Professional Women’s State 

Young Careerist of the Year in 2000 and Professional Woman of 

the Year in 2002. She is a graduate of the University of Virginia 

and George Mason University School of Law, and I am very 

pleased to welcome a very capable and able Commonwealth Attorney, who is very knowledgeable on this subject. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. I thank the gentleman. We welcome Ms. Garst. 

Heather Mac Donald is a John M. Olin Fellow at the Manhattan 

Institute and a contributing editor to City Journal. Her work at 

City Journal covers a range of topics including homeland security, 

immigration, and policing. After clerking for Judge Stephen 

Reinhart of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, Ms. Mac Donald 

served as an attorney-advisor in the General Counsel’s Office of the 

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. She is a frequent guest on 

Fox News, CNN, and other television and radio programs. Ms. Mac 

Donald, a graduate of Yale University, earned her master’s degree 

in English from Cambridge University and her law degree from 

Stanford Law School. 

Mai Fernandez is the Chief Operating Officer of the Latin American Youth Center in Washington, D.C. She has also served as a 

Special Assistant to the Assistant Attorney General in the Office 

of Justice Programs. Before working for the Department of Justice, 

she served as an Assistant District Attorney in Manhattan, and as 

an aide to Congressmen Mickey Leland and Jim Florio. Ms. 

Fernandez is a graduate of Dickinson College. She received her law 

degree from American University and her Master’s Degree in Public Administration from Harvard University. 

Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate your attendance here 

today. Secretary Garcia, you will begin, and you will see that there 

will be a 5-minute time period for your testimony. If you could stay 

as close within that as possible, we would appreciate it. Secretary 

Garcia. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE MICHAEL J. GARCIA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. GARCIA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Members 

of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with 

you today about U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s response to alien gang activity in the United States. Mr. Chairman, 

you have very vividly outlined the threat posed by these gangs to 

our communities. I can assure you that ICE brings to bear all of 

4

its law enforcement and investigative powers to combat violent 

street gangs. 

Ensuring public safety is among the most important homeland 

security missions at ICE. Gang enforcement is a crucial part of 

that mission. In the last decade, the United States has experienced 

a dramatic increase in the number and size of transnational street 

gangs such as Mara Salvatrucha, commonly known as MS-13. 

These gangs have a significant, often a majority, foreign-born membership and are frequently involved in human and contraband 

smuggling, immigration violations, and other crimes with a nexus 

to the border. Like any street gang, these gangs also have a propensity toward violence. Their members commit such crimes as 

robbery, extortion, assault, rape, and murder. 

In 2003, ICE conducted a comprehensive threat assessment on 

violent street gang activity in the United States. The threat assessment identified MS-13 as having a presence across the nation, a 

significant foreign-born membership, and a history of violence. 

An example of this violence occurred just outside our nation’s 

Capital. In May 2004, in Alexandria, Virginia, members of MS-13 

viciously hacked at a rival gang member with machetes, severing 

the victim’s hands. The victims of gang crime are not limited to 

rival gang members, however. Entire neighborhoods and sometimes 

whole communities are held hostage by and subjected to the violence of street gangs. Community members are targeted by gangs 

for extortion, robberies, carjackings, and home invasions. In driveby shootings, the bullets fired by street gangs do not discriminate 

between a rival gang member and a child. 

Based on this threat assessment, ICE initiated Operation Community Shield in February 2005, with priority given to targeting 

MS-13 members. The objective of Community Shield is to gather 

intelligence, develop sources of information, and to ultimately disrupt, dismantle, and prosecute violent street gangs by applying the 

full range of authorities and investigative tools available at ICE. In 

Community Shield, we have designated priorities for apprehension 

based on whether a gang member is a threat to national security, 

in a position of leadership, or has a prior violent criminal history. 

Since the beginning of Operation Community Shield, more than 

150 MS-13 gang members have been arrested for immigration violations. Nine of those arrested have been identified as leaders. 

More than half of those arrested have violent criminal histories 

with arrests and convictions for crimes such as robbery, assault, 

rape, and murder. In one set of arrests, Miami ICE agents apprehended two MS-13 gang members wanted by California authorities 

on murder charges. These two gang members were also being 

sought by local authorities for their suspected involvement in home 

invasions. Twenty-two of those arrested have been criminally 

charged for illegal reentry after deportation and are subject to sentences of up to 20 years in prison, depending on their criminal history. Examples of illegal reentry arrests include an MS-13 member 

from Long Island who had convictions for burglary, auto theft, harassment, and sexual abuse of a minor. Additionally, ICE agents in 

Los Angeles arrested four MS-13 gang members that illegally reentered the U.S., all with convictions for violent crimes ranging from 

brandishing a firearm to witness tampering. Finally, Newark 

5

agents apprehended an MS-13 gang member for illegal reentry who 

had prior convictions for armed robbery and grand theft. 

ICE’s efforts under Operation Community Shield are not limited 

to immigration violations, and, again, we bring all our authorities, 

including our financial and criminal investigative authorities, to 

bear. 

Through Operation Community Shield, ICE is taking innovative 

steps to identify MS-13 gang members. The Law Enforcement Support Center checks MS-13 gang member data provided by State 

and local authorities against DHS and other databases to locate 

gang members. In a cooperative effort, ICE and the Bureau of Prisons identified 102 records of MS-13 gang members in the Federal 

prison system database. 

The LESC has also developed an innovative way to help identify 

MS-13 gang members to first responders. When a State or local police agency makes an inquiry to the LESC through the National 

Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, the LESC sends 

certain inquiry responses to ICE headquarters for further analysis. 

When a match is found, ICE notifies the inquiring law enforcement 

agency of its findings. You can see what a safety benefit that would 

have to any officer approaching a car on the side of the road at 

night who would certainly want to know the person in that vehicle 

is a suspected gang member. 

On December 23, 2004, the Columbus, Ohio, Police Department 

encountered Nelson Flores following a minor traffic accident and 

contacted the LESC for information. ICE special agents at the 

LESC and Columbus officers soon determined that Flores was a 

previously deported felon linked to a drive-by shooting in Nevada 

and was a local leader of MS-13. LESC agents immediately lodged 

a detainer and notified Ohio ICE agents who responded and arrested Flores for illegal reentry after deportation. 

I will sum up now, Mr. Chairman, in keeping with your instructions to keep to the 5-minute rule, but I will say that in the final 

analysis, Operation Community Shield is a homeland security initiative. Every criminal organization that can exploit the border is 

viewed as a potential national security threat. In recent months, 

there have been uncorroborated reports in the media and from foreign governments of possible links between al Qaeda and MS-13. 

While neither ICE nor any other U.S. Government agency that I 

know of has credible evidence to support these reports, the threat 

remains that any criminal organization that exploits our borders 

for profit could, for the right price, bring in terrorists or bring in 

components of weapons of mass destruction. 

Operation Community Shield marks just the beginning of ICE’s 

fight to defeat violent street gangs. I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the distinguished Members of this Committee for the opportunity to speak about this gang initiative before you today, and 

I look forward to answering all of your questions. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Garcia follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MICHAEL J. GARCIA

MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE, thank you for the 

opportunity to speak with you today about U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) responses to alien gang activity in the United States. ICE brings to 

6

bear all of its law enforcement and investigative powers to combat violent street 

gangs. 

Ensuring public safety is among the most important homeland security missions 

of ICE. Gang enforcement is a crucial part of that mission. In the last decade, the 

United States has experienced a dramatic increase in the number and size of 

transnational street gangs such as Mara Salvatrucha (commonly know as MS–13). 

These gangs have a significant, often a majority, foreign-born membership and are 

frequently involved in human and contraband smuggling, immigration violations 

and other crimes with a nexus to the border. Like any street gang, these gangs also 

have a propensity toward violence. Their members commit such crimes as robbery, 

extortion, assault, rape and murder. 

In 2003 ICE conducted a comprehensive threat assessment on violent street gang 

activity in the United States. The threat assessment identified the street gang MS–

13 as having a presence across the nation, a significant foreign-born membership 

and a history of violence. 

An example of this violence occurred just outside our nation’s Capital. In May 

2004 in Alexandria, Virginia, members of MS–13 viciously hacked at a rival gang 

member with machetes, severing the victim’s hands. The victims of gang crime are 

not limited to rival gang members. Entire neighborhoods and sometimes whole communities are held hostage by and subjected to the violence of street gangs. Community members are targeted by gangs for extortion, robberies, car-jackings and home 

invasions. In the conduct of drive-by shootings, the bullets fired by street gangs do 

not discriminate between a rival gang member and a sleeping infant in the same 

house. 

Based on this threat assessment, ICE initiated Operation Community Shield on 

February 23, 2005, with priority given to targeting MS–13 members. The objective 

of Community Shield is to gather intelligence, develop sources of information, and 

to ultimately disrupt, dismantle and prosecute violent street gangs by applying the 

full range of authorities and investigative tools available to ICE. In Community 

Shield we have designated priorities for apprehension based on whether a gang 

member is a threat to national security; in a position of leadership; or has a prior 

violent criminal history. 

Since the beginning of Operation Community Shield, more than 150 MS-13 gang 

members have been arrested for immigration violations. Nine of those arrested have 

been identified as leaders. More than half of those arrested have violent criminal 

histories with arrests and convictions for crimes such as robbery, assault, rape and 

murder. In one set of arrests, Miami ICE agents apprehended two MS–13 gang 

members wanted by California authorities on murder charges. These two gang 

members were also being sought by local authorities for their suspected involvement 

in home invasions. 

Twenty-two of those arrested have been criminally charged for illegal reentry 

after deportation (8 USC 1326) and are subject to up to 20 years in Federal prison, 

depending on their criminal history. Examples of illegal reentry arrests include an 

MS–13 member from Long Island who has convictions for burglary, auto theft, harassment and sexual abuse of a minor. Additionally, ICE agents in Los Angeles arrested four MS–13 gang members that illegally reentered the U.S., all with convictions for violent crimes ranging from brandishing a firearm to witness tampering. 

Finally, Newark ICE agents apprehended an MS–13 gang member for illegal reentry who has prior convictions for armed robbery and grand theft. 

ICE’s investigative efforts under Operation Community Shield are not limited to 

immigration violations. We have the combined authorities for enforcing both customs and immigration laws, which makes our approach to fighting organized criminal activity and gang violence unique, and more effective. By combining immigration enforcement authorities with expertise in financial investigations, we have an 

additional tool to hit these criminal gangs where it hurts—by going after their 

money. One example of how these combined authorities can be so effective is in an 

investigation of a street gang known to transport large quantities of narcotics from 

Mexico into the United States. This investigation involves pursuing money laundering charges, drug smuggling charges, the use of electronic surveillance and identifying and targeting illicit proceeds for forfeiture. 

Through Operation Community Shield, ICE is taking other innovative steps to 

identify MS–13 gang members and disrupt its organizations. The ICE Law Enforcement Support Center (LESC) has checked MS–13 gang member data provided by 

our state and local law enforcement partners against DHS and other databases to 

identify and locate gang members. In a cooperative effort, ICE and the U.S. Bureau 

of Prisons (BOP) have identified 102 records of MS–13 gang members in the federal 

prison system database. Through the cross-check, ICE and the BOP hope to identify 

7

MS–13 gang members who may be directing criminal activity from behind bars and 

prioritize jailed gang members for deportation upon completion of their sentence. 

The LESC has also developed an innovative way to help identify MS–13 gang 

members to first responders. When a State or local police agency makes an inquiry 

to the LESC through the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System 

(NLETS), the LESC forwards inquiry responses that meet a certain criteria to ICE 

Headquarters for further analysis and comparison with data ICE has on MS–13 

gang members. When a match is found, ICE notifies the inquiring law enforcement 

agency of its findings and coordinates enforcement action to be taken. The goal is 

to prosecute if possible and ultimately deport these alien gang members from the 

United States. 

On December 23, 2004, the Columbus, Ohio Police Department encountered Nelson Flores following a minor traffic accident and contacted the LESC for information. ICE Special Agents at the LESC and Columbus officers soon determined that 

Flores was a previously deported felon linked to a drive-by shooting in Nevada and 

was a local leader of MS–13. LESC agents immediately lodged a detainer and notified Ohio ICE agents who responded and arrested Flores for illegal reentry after deportation. 

ICE maintains a close working relationship with Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador 

and Guatemala in the exchange of intelligence pertaining to MS–13 and other gang 

activity. ICE established a working relationship with Honduran Law Enforcement 

Intelligence Units regarding the arrest of Lester RIVERA-Paz in South Texas. RIVERA-Paz, the alleged national leader of the Honduran MS–13 organization, was 

an international fugitive, wanted by Honduran authorities for his involvement in 

the massacre of 28 bus passengers in December of 2004 in San Pedro Sula, Honduras. RIVERA-Paz was apprehended by Customs and Border Protection Border Patrol agents and placed into ICE custody pending prosecution for illegal reentry after 

deportation. ICE Intelligence secured copies of the Honduran arrest warrant, as well 

as photos and fingerprints of RIVERA-Paz to confirm his identity and fugitive status. 

At ICE, we recognize that no single law enforcement agency can win the fight 

against transnational street gangs. ICE is working closely with a number of agencies and organizations under Operation Community Shield. Such cooperation is critical to the success of this initiative. ICE’s Operation Community Shield partners include other agencies within the Department of Homeland Security; the Department 

of Justice; Department of State; the governments of El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico 

and Guatemala; and state and local law enforcement agencies throughout the 

United States. ICE has a long history of working with our partners in law enforcement to leverage our enforcement abilities. Operation Community Shield is no exception. 

In the final analysis, Operation Community Shield is a homeland security initiative. Every criminal organization that can exploit the border is viewed as a potential 

national security threat. In recent months, there have been uncorroborated reports 

in the media and from foreign governments of possible links between Al-Qaeda and 

MS–13. Neither ICE nor any other U.S. Government agency has credible evidence 

to support these reports. 

This operation is just the beginning in our fight to defeat violent street gangs. Operation Community Shield is an important public safety initiative for the Department of Homeland Security that targets the proliferation of gang violence throughout the country. By bringing the full range of ICE’s immigration and customs authorities in the fight against violent street gangs, we can take hundreds of gang 

members off the streets and have a significant impact on community safety. 

I want to thank the distinguished members of this Committee for the opportunity 

to speak before you today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have.

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

Ms. Garst. 

TESTIMONY OF MARSHA L. GARST, COMMONWEALTH’S 

ATTORNEY FOR ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, VIRGINIA 

Ms. GARST. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, and honored Members of the House Judiciary—— Mr. HOSTETTLER. Could you push the button there on the box 

there? 

Ms. GARST. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, and honored Members of the House Judiciary Committee. It’s a pleasure to be here 

8

in the springtime. What a lovely day. As the Congressman introduced me, I’m Marsha Garst from Rockingham County, City of 

Harrisonburg, and I am serving as Commonwealth’s Attorney. 

I have been a lifelong resident of Rockingham County and the 

City of Harrisonburg, as five generations of my family before me. 

So it’s with a sense of urgency that I address you today as I raise 

my own family in the valley to let you know that with the alien 

gang problem, our way of life could be lost. 

As was the case with my family, many immigrants came to the 

valley for good jobs, an abundance of good agricultural opportunities. We have a burgeoning poultry industry and agricultural economy. Currently, Harrisonburg is second in the State for English as 

a Second Language program. We have over 56 different countries 

of origin in our school system and 38 different languages spoken. 

Right now, Spanish is the second, of course, primary language in 

our area, with 72 percent of our program being Spanish-speaking. 

Many of these immigrants have contributed to the positive growth 

of this community, but I’m here to address the minority, which is 

the alien gang group. 

When I began prosecution in 1994, there was a new drug on the 

street called methamphetamine, and there was not one organized 

gang in our area. We only had 160 students in our ESL program. 

Now we have over 1,422. We heard of a gang called MS-13 first in 

1999 when we had two members apprehended who had fled from 

Fairfax County, who were staying with family members here in 

Harrisonburg, regarding a malicious wounding charge they had 

fled. 

Our next contact then came most recently in August of 2003 regarding a woman by the name of Brenda Paz, whom many of you 

are familiar with. Fairfax investigators advised us that she had 

been living in our community with family members, and she was 

a point of contact for local MS-13 gang members. She later cooperated, of course, against MS-13 gang members, rejoined the gang, 

and was murdered, and, of course, as you all know, she was pregnant as well. 

We also had another fatality related to gang opportunities, which 

was a young woman who was contacted and involved with MS-13. 

She was involved with stealing vehicles in Northern Virginia and 

killed in the process of stealing vehicles with MS-13. Her sister, 

who was only 14 at the time, was later arrested in our local high 

school system for vandalism and gang participation due to this MS13 alliance. 

I would like to introduce from the City of Harrisonburg, County 

of Rockingham Gang Task Force, Sergeant Chris Rush, if he would 

stand a moment. He has provided almost all the facts and has been 

our local expert in this area. He was instrumental in providing this 

data. We have ten active gangs currently with 100 documented, 

meaning certified, members that we’re aware of. 

Our most powerful gang is Sureno-13. There’s at least 75 percent 

illegal aliens that we approximate in that group, about 40 active 

members. They have already been tied to and prosecuted for malicious woundings, firearms violations, robberies, abductions, assaults, breaking and enterings, larcenies, and vandalisms. 

9

One case of note was a 15-year-old young lady who was a sister 

of a Sureno-13 member who was stabbed by a rival gang member, 

MS-13. She came to school with stab wounds. A guidance counselor 

saw this. Her family would not cooperate with the prosecution due 

to, one, illegal status and gang ties. 

Another case of note was just recently when we had an abduction 

and robbery where Sureno-13 members went into the home of a 

CRIPS member, held all the residents at gunpoint, and robbed 

them. Several illegal aliens participated in this, and they were not 

prosecuted due to the lack of cooperation of the victims. The case 

had to be dismissed because the young man who was the subject 

of the attack said that he was afraid to prosecute. 

Our next most powerful gang is MS-13. There’s about 50 percent 

of the members that we can corroborate to be illegal aliens. The 

rest are here with political asylum from El Salvador. And this 

doesn’t include all the MS-13 members who come down from Northern Virginia to help participate in these activities. We’ve already 

arrested them for malicious wounding, firearms violations, larcenies, vandalisms and taggings. One MS-13 member most recently 

was hit with a broken bottle and injured pretty badly in February 

2005. He went and got a friend who was tied with MS-13, and he 

and another friend went back and discharged several rounds of ammunition into the crowd, and many people were frightened. Luckily, we didn’t have a fatality. 

You will find some attached samples of gang taggings. I hope 

that you have these photographs included in your packet. The first 

depicts at a local housing project, Harris Gardens, a SUR 13 member executing another rival gang member. Then you see someone 

proud enough to put their SUR 13 ties and very prominent markings on their back. The most common hand marking of SUR 13 is 

there, as well as large taggings in a very prominent place showing 

SUR 13 in the main area of our town, and then taggings for the 

MS-13 turf. 

As I sum this up, I want you to know that local teachers in our 

second grade have told us that MS-13 and SUR 13 are already recruiting our children. There’s a photograph below, gentlemen and 

ladies, that I’d like you to look at, if you have that, which shows 

our middle school traveling here to the nation’s Capital. You will 

see two flashing gang signs: the one in the front, CRIPS; the back, 

with the sign of the Bloods. 

There was a significant problem with illegal aliens making up 

gangs in the Shenandoah Valley. In the past month, ICE has 

worked very close. We’re very lucky to have now a local office. We 

have ten gang members we identified. Out of these ten, two have 

been deported and have already reentered the United States. Three 

are awaiting criminal charges, and upon conviction will be deported. 

There is a nexus about to occur that is very important. In Harrisonburg and Rockingham County, 40 percent of the methamphetamine that has been seized in the entire State of Virginia has come 

from our locality. What we have seen in Shenandoah County, just 

to the north of us where Ms. Paz was killed, that gang ties are already showing gangs to be actively moving to methamphetamine. 

We are yet to see that actively in Harrisonburg, but when they reVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:11 Jun 21, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 G:\WORK\IMMIG\041305\20528.000 HJUD2 PsN: 20528
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alize that they can use methamphetamine for the benefit of the 

gang, then we’re in trouble because it will go from just individual 

gain to the gain of the gang. Once they decide to do that, then 

we’re going to have a crisis. 

I thank you so much for your time this afternoon, and I thank 

you for your attention to this very important problem. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Garst follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARSHA GARST

Good afternoon honored members of the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee and guests. It is a pleasure to be back in our Nation’s Capital in the springtime. My name is Marsha Garst and I am the Commonwealth’s Attorney of Rockingham County and the City of Harrisonburg. Except for my time at the University 

of Virginia and here in Washington, D.C., I have also been a lifelong resident of 

Rockingham County and the City of Harrisonburg. Five (5) generations of my family 

have made their home in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley and as I now raise my 

own family there, it is with a great sense of urgency that I ask you to address the 

Alien Gang crime problem in the Valley of Virginia before our way of life is lost forever. 

As was the case with my family, many immigrants have migrated to the Shenandoah Valley for the abundance of jobs and the quality of living. Most recently, 

many immigrants have come to Rockingham County and the City of Harrisonburg 

to seek employment in our burgeoning poultry industry and agricultural economy. 

Currently, the City of Harrisonburg is second in the state for English as a Second 

Language (ESL) education and has over fifty-six (56) different countries of origin 

and thirty-eight (38) different spoken languages in our public school system. Spanish as the primary language makes up seventy-two (72) percent of the ESL program 

attendees. Most immigrants to the community have contributed to the positive 

growth and well being of our town. However, I am here to address the dangerous 

minority—that is alien gang members that have come to prey on other immigrants 

and citizens. 

When I began prosecution as in 1994, organized gangs were unheard of and new 

drug—methamphetamine was making its way to our streets. In 1994, we had 160 

students in the ESL program in the City of Harrisonburg. In 2004, we had 1,422 

students in the ESL program. We first heard of a gang called MS–13 in 1999 when 

we apprehended two (2) members of the gang wanted on malicious wounding 

charges who were staying with family members in Harrisonburg after fleeing Fairfax County. 

Our next contact with MS–13 came in August of 2003. Virginia State Police members and Fairfax County Investigators, advised us that a woman by the name of 

Brenda Paz had been living in Harrisonburg, Virginia, with family members. Ms. 

Paz served as a point of contact for MS–13 gang members. As many of you know, 

she later cooperated against other MS–13 gang members and was found brutally 

murdered in the adjoining county of Shenandoah. Ms. Paz was also pregnant. 

Later in 2003, another young woman from Harrisonburg, Virginia died due to her 

gang contacts when her boyfriend and she were stealing cars in Northern Virginia 

for MS–13 and died in a car crash. This young woman’s surviving sister, who was 

only 14 years of age at the time, was charged after her sister’s death with vandalism and gang participation due to her alliance with MS–13. 

Currently, the City of Harrisonburg and County of Rockingham has a Gang Task 

Force. This task force has a coordinator with who I have worked for a decade, Sgt. 

Chris Rush—I would like to introduce him at the time—he was instrumental in providing the following details: The City of Harrisonburg and Rockingham County has 

ten (10) active gangs with over one-hundred (100) documented members. 

The Surenos 13 are currently the most powerful gang over forty (40) members 

strong. This gang draws its ranks from Mexican citizens. They are comprised of at 

least seventy-five (75) percent illegal aliens and have been tied to malicious 

woundings, firearms violations, robberies, abductions, assaults, breaking and 

enterings, larcenies, and vandalisms in our community. One sad case of note was 

a fifteen (15) year old sister of a Surenos 13 member was stabbed by a MS–13 member and presented at school with stab wounds, but her family would not cooperate 

with the prosecution of her attacker because of the families’ illegal status and gang 

ties. Another case of note is the 2004 case of abduction and robbery wherein Sur 

13 members went to the home of a CRIPS member and held residents at gunpoint 

and robbed residents. Several illegal aliens participated in this attack, but could not 

11

be prosecuted due to the lack of cooperation of the victims. The case was dismissed 

because the victim told his mother he was afraid of SUR 13 members and refused 

to testify. The abduction and robbery were retaliation for a drug debt. We have also 

had numerous home invasions of illegal alien homes and citizens by SUR 13. SUR 

13 knows that victims will not prosecute because of their illegal status and many 

cases go unreported. 

Our next powerful gang is MS–13 with twenty-five (25) documented local resident 

members. Approximately fifty (50) percent of these members are illegal aliens. The 

rest are here on political asylum from El Salvador. This does not include the many 

MS–13 members that travel down from Northern Virginia to participate in criminal 

activities. In Harrisonburg and the County of Rockingham, we have had malicious 

woundings, firearms violation, assault, larcenies, and vandalisms or taggings. One 

recent case of note, in February 2005, a MS–13 member was assaulted with a broken bottle. This MS–13 member went and got two (2) friends, one with gang ties, 

and returned and discharged several ammunitions into the area of the crowd where 

he was assaulted. 

Below, please find examples of the gang markings. The first Photograph depicts 

a tagging on the door of public housing complex—Harris Gardens, in the City of 

Harrisonburg. It depicts a SUR 13 member executing a local rival gang member. 

The second photograph depicts a SUR 13 member so proud he would wear his markings in a permanent tattoo.

The first photograph below depicts a common gang tattoo. The second photograph 

depicts a large tagging by SUR 13.

The photographs below depict recent taggings on well known MS–13 Turf.


GarstXAB.eps GarstXCD.eps
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Finally, we have evidence from local teachers of the second grade that gang recruiting for MS–13 and SUR 13 has already begun. The photograph below depicts 

local school children on a field trip to our Nation’s Capitol flashing gang signs. This 

picture was copied from one of our local yearbooks in the Harrisonburg area.

Illegal aliens makeup a significant portion of gang members in the Shenandoah 

Valley. Within the past month, a list of ten (10) gang members was given to our 

local ICE office. Out of these ten members, two (2) had all ready been deported and 

have re-entered the United States and three (3) are awaiting criminal charges and 

upon conviction will be deported because of their illegal status. There are also other 

documented cases in which our local police officers have encountered gang members/

associates who had been deported and re-entered and were re-arrested. 

A dangerous nexus is about to occur. Approximately forty (40) percent of methamphetamine seized in the State of Virginia was seized in Rockingham County and 

the City of Harrisonburg. Already Shenandoah County has seen gang activity tied 

to methamphetamine. The City of Harrisonburg and the County of Rockingham are 

currently seeing gang members in possession of and distributing narcotics. However, 

it does not appear at this time they are doing it for the benefit of the gang, but 

for the benefit of their individual gain. Once gangs decide to use the valley drug 

trade as a profit base, then we will truly have a crisis. 

Thank you for your attention to this very serious problem and thank you for your 

time.

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you, Ms. Garst. 

Ms. Mac Donald. 

TESTIMONY OF HEATHER MAC DONALD, SENIOR FELLOW, 

THE MANHATTAN INSTITUTE 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s a great honor 

and privilege to be here today before your Subcommittee, which is 

an absolute brain trust of information. 

Does that affect us or are we having a little security alert? 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. We will—no, no security alert. 


GarstEF.eps GarstG.eps
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Ms. MAC DONALD. You never know in the capital. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. We will have a vote in the House of Representatives and so—I don’t know if we have a series of votes, but we will 

have a vote in the House, so we’ll probably have to recess for a 

short time. 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Okay. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Hopefully we will get through yours and Ms. 

Fernandez’s testimony in that time. 

Ms. MAC DONALD. So I should continue. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Yes, please continue. 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Okay. I’ve had the privilege of working with 

your general counsel in the past, and I’m glad to finally be here 

to see where all the knowledge is coming from. 

My name again is Heather Mac Donald. I’m a fellow at the Manhattan Institute. I’ve written extensively on immigration issues 

and policing, with a special emphasis on Southern California and 

New York City. 

Gang crime is the one category of crime that is exploding nationally. It’s up 50 percent from 1999 to 2002, and it’s going to continue 

to rise so long as our immigration system remains broken. 

As Mr. Garcia told us, nobody knows for certain the percentage 

of illegal aliens in gangs, thanks in part to sanctuary laws that forbid local police from even inquiring into a criminal’s immigration 

status. But there’s a few numbers that I think are suggestive. 

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide target illegal aliens, and approximately two-thirds of all felony 

outstanding warrants target illegal aliens. ICE says Mara 

Salvatrucha is predominantly or majority illegal. Police officers will 

tell you it’s basically 100 percent illegal. He mentioned the 18th 

Street Gang or you mentioned the 18th Street Gang, which a California Department of Justice study put at about 60 percent illegal. 

Again, cops will say otherwise. 

Now, given such numbers, leveraging a criminal’s illegal status 

to have him deported would seem to be an essential weapon 

against gang crime. But in cities and counties across the country, 

police are prohibited from using the most immediate and straightforward tool to get illegal criminals off the streets: their illegal status. 

Here’s how it works: Let’s say an officer in Hollywood, California, 

sees a previously deported felon, a member of MS-13, back at Hollywood and Vine hanging out. Now, the officer recognizes him and 

knows that his mere presence in the country following deportation 

is a Federal felony. But under the prevailing understanding of Los 

Angeles’ sanctuary law, known as Special Order 40, that cop can’t 

lay a finger on that felon for his immigration felony. Instead, he 

has to wait and laboriously build up probable cause for, let’s say, 

a murder or an armed assault. But as any prosecutor here knows, 

it’s not always certain that you’re going to get that probable cause, 

especially with gang crime, since witnesses are terrified of retaliation. Using the felon’s immigration status now to get him off the 

street is the surest way of protecting the community. 

The damage done by sanctuary laws is clear. Let me just give 

you a few examples. 

14

In late 2002, four illegal Mexicans brutally abducted and gangraped a 42-year-old mother of two near a railroad in Queens, New 

York. Three of these illegal rapists had been arrested numerous 

times for assault, attempted robbery, criminal trespass, illegal gun 

possession. But pursuant to New York’s sanctuary policy, the police 

had never notified the INS. 

In Los Angeles, 5 months ago, Carlos Barrera, an illegal Mexican, mugged three people, burglarized two apartments, and attempted to rape a 5-year-old girl. He had been deported 4 years ago 

for crimes of violence but, of course, had reentered. Since his reentry, he had been stopped twice for traffic violations. But, again, 

the cops never notified ICE because of L.A.’s sanctuary policy. 

Now, L.A. is proposing to issue new guidelines, but it merely 

shows how perverse our attitudes toward border trespassing are. It 

would require a cop to go all the way up through his chain of command, then up through ICE’s chain of command to get a Federal 

warrant to make an arrest. Your average citizen street thug is not 

required—does not have the right to a Federal warrant before 

being arrested, only illegal aliens. 

In conclusion, getting rid of sanctuary laws is only the first step 

to being able to solve the illegal alien gang crime. ICE has to come 

up with sufficient deportation resources and detention space, and 

the Bush administration has to engage in the radical step of actually enforcing the immigration laws, including laws against hiring 

illegal aliens. As long as the jobs magnet retains its force, we’re not 

going to be able to stop the flood of illegals that are bringing terrorists, undoubtedly, and criminals in their wake. 

Sanctuary laws are not pro-immigrant. They’re anti-immigrant 

by keeping violent criminals in the community where they’re preying predominantly on law-abiding immigrants. 

Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Mac Donald follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HEATHER MAC DONALD

My name is Heather Mac Donald. I am a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute 

for Policy Research, a think tank in New York City. I have analyzed illegal immigration for City Journal and the Los Angeles Times, among other publications. I 

have also written a book on policing called Are Cops Racist? I appreciate the opportunity to testify today on this important topic. 

Sanctuary laws are a serious impediment to stemming gang violence and other 

crime. Moreover, they are a perfect symbol of this country’s topsy-turvy stance towards illegal immigration. 

Sanctuary laws, present in such cities as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Austin, 

Houston, and San Francisco, generally forbid local police officers from inquiring into 

a suspect’s immigration status or reporting it to federal authorities. Such laws place 

a higher priority on protecting illegal aliens from deportation than on protecting 

legal immigrants and citizens from assault, rape, arson, and other crimes. 

Let’s say a Los Angeles police officer sees a member of Mara Salvatrucha hanging 

out at Hollywood and Vine. The gang member has previously been deported for aggravated assault; his mere presence back in the country following deportation is a 

federal felony. Under the prevailing understanding of Los Angeles’s sanctuary law 

(special order 40), if that officer merely inquires into the gangbanger’s immigration 

status, the officer will face departmental punishment. 

To get the felon off the street, the cop has to wait until he has probable cause 

to arrest the gangbanger for a non-immigration crime, such as murder or robbery. 

It is by no means certain that that officer will successfully build a non-immigrant 

case against the gangster, however, since witnesses to gang crime often fear deadly 

retaliation if they cooperate with the police. Meanwhile, the gangbanger is free to 

15

prey on law-abiding members of his community, many of them immigrants themselves. 

This is an extraordinarily inefficient way to reduce crime. If an officer has 

grounds for arresting a criminal now, it is perverse to ask him to wait until some 

later date when maybe, if he is lucky, he will have an additional ground for arrest. 

Sanctuary laws violate everything we have learned about policing in the 1990s. 

Police departments across the country discovered that utilizing every law enforcement tool in their tool chest against criminals yielded enormous gains. Getting 

criminals off the streets for seemingly ‘‘minor’’ crimes such as turnstile jumping or 

graffiti saved lives. Gang crime, which exploded 50% from 1999 to 2002, is too serious a problem to ignore this lesson. 

No one knows for certain the percentage of illegals in gangs, thanks in large part 

to sanctuary laws themselves. But various estimates exist: 

—A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 

percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex 

drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations. It commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over 

the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, 

from Central America and Mexico.

• Immigration and Customs Enforcement conservatively puts the number of 

illegals in Mara Salvatrucha as a ‘‘majority;’’ police officers, by contrast, assert that the gang is overwhelmingly illegal.

• Law enforcement officials estimate that 20% of gang members in San Diego 

County are illegal, according to the Union-Tribune.

• The L.A. County Sheriff reported in 2000 that 23% of inmates in county jails 

were deportable, according to the New York Times.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around Los Angeles’s MacArthur Park, 

was about 60 percent illegal in 2002. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia 

member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving 

time for felonious reentry following deportation.

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide in the 

first half of 2004 (which totaled 1,200 to 1,500) targeted illegal aliens. Up to 

two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) were for illegal aliens.

• The Los Angeles Police Department arrests about 2500 criminally-convicted 

deportees annually, reports the Los Angeles Times.

Though the numbers of illegal gang members remain elusive, the evidence for the 

destructive effects of sanctuary laws is incontrovertible. In 2002, for example, four 

illegal Mexicans, accompanied by one legal immigrant, abducted and brutally raped 

a 42-year-old mother of two near some railroad tracks in Queens, New York. The 

New York Police Department had already arrested three of the illegal aliens numerous times for such crimes as assault, attempted robbery, criminal trespass, illegal 

gun possession, and drug offenses. But pursuant to New York’s sanctuary policy, the 

department had never notified the INS. 

Five months ago, Carlos Barrera, an illegal Mexican in Hollywood, Ca., mugged 

three people, burglarized two apartments, and tried to rape a five-year-old girl. 

Barrera had been deported four years ago after serving time for robbery, drugs, and 

burglary. Since his reentry following deportation, he had been stopped twice for traffic violations. But thanks to special order 40, the police had never mentioned him 

to the immigration authorities, reports the New York Times. 

In September, 2003, the Miami police arrested a Honduran visa violator for seven 

vicious rapes. The previous year, Miami cops had had the suspect in custody for 

lewd and lascivious molestation. Pursuant to Miami’s sanctuary law, however, the 

police had never checked his immigration status. Had they done so, they would have 

discovered his deportable status, and could have forestalled the rapes. 

Cousins Aneceto and Jaime Reyes committed murder and a car-jacking, respectively, after returning to Los Angeles from Mexico following deportation. The Los 

Angeles police had encountered them before these most recent crimes, but had to 

wait for them to commit murder and a car-jacking before they could lay a finger 

on them for their immigration offenses, according to the New York Times. 

The Los Angeles Police Department began revisiting special order 40 last month. 

Its proposed revision merely underlines how perverse our attitudes towards illegal 

alien criminals remain. 

16

Los Angeles’s top brass propose to allow a Los Angeles officer who suspects that 

a criminal has previously been deported to contact his supervisor about the reentry 

felony. That supervisor would then contact ICE. ICE officials would next go before 

a federal judge to get an arrest warrant for the immigration felony. Then, with warrant in hand, the Los Angeles cop may finally arrest the felonious gangbanger-if he 

can still find him. 

This burdensome procedure is preposterous. To arrest an American citizen for a 

crime, arrest warrants are rarely required; about 95% of arrests of citizens are 

warrantless. But in L.A., under the new rules, illegal criminals will have due process rights that citizens can only dream of: not just judicial review before they can 

be taken off the streets, but federal judicial review-the gold standard of all constitutional protections. Maybe home-grown criminals should renounce their citizenship 

and reenter the country illegally. It would be a constitutional windfall for them. 

Other jurisdictions that are reconsidering their sanctuary laws are also proceeding with unnecessary timidity. The Orange County, Ca., sheriff plans to train 

a few deputies to use immigration laws only for special enforcement actions against 

sexual predators or gangs, reports the Los Angeles Times. The Miami Police Department will join with ICE only on high-level gang cases. 

These minor tinkerings all put unwise limitations on a vital law enforcement 

power. Local immigration enforcement power should not be limited to the felony of 

reentry following deportation. Nor should only a small subset of officers be authorized to use it. There are many illegal alien criminals who have not yet reentered 

following deportation, but who are just as dangerous to their communities. Every 

officer should have the power to enforce any immigration violation against a criminal suspect, not just immigration felonies. 

Nothing demonstrates the necessity of this power better than ICE’s March enforcement action against Mara Salvatrucha. Following the March round-up, ICE 

proudly displayed three of its trophy cases: the founding member of MS-13 in Hollywood, Ca., who had already been convicted for robbery and possession of a dangerous weapon; the leader of MS-13 in Long Branch, NJ, who had a prior criminal 

history of aggravated arson, weapons possession, grand larceny, and criminal possession of stolen property; and the founder of Port Washington, NY’s, MS gang, who 

had a prior drug conviction. 

ICE got all three of these leading gang bangers off the streets through what it 

calls administrative immigration violations, not felony immigration violations. Local 

officers in Hollywood, Long Branch, and Port Washington, as elsewhere, should 

have the power to use any type of immigration violation as well to get a thug (who 

may also prove to be a terrorist) off the street. 

Immigration enforcement against criminals should also not wait upon a major federal-local gang initiative. The majority of opportunities to get criminals off the 

streets come from enforcing misdemeanors and quality of life offenses. While the police are waiting to make a major federal case against an illegal criminal, they are 

far more likely to have picked him up for a ‘‘petty’’ theft or an open-container offense. Officers should be empowered at every arrest or lawful stop to check someone’s immigration status. If a suspect is committing an immigration offense, the officer should be empowered to arrest him immediately for that offense. 

Jails and prisons should routinely check the immigration status of their prisoners. 

Such an initiative should not be dependent on the presence of an ICE officer stationed in a prison; there are simply not enough federal agents available to cover the 

relevant facilities. Moreover, ICE agents do not routinely visit local jails where misdemeanor offenders are held, yet those offenders may be as dangerous to the community as someone against whom a felony case has been made. Someone convicted 

of stealing a jacket today may be shooting a rival tomorrow. And many misdemeanor convicts in jails have been allowed to plead down from more serious felonies. 

The standard argument for sanctuary laws is that they encourage illegal aliens 

to work with the police or seek government services. This argument is based on 

myth, not evidence. No illegal alien advocate has ever provided a shred of evidence 

that sanctuary laws actually accomplish their alleged ends. Nor has anyone shown 

that illegal aliens are even aware of sanctuary laws. The evidence for the destructive effects of sanctuary laws is clear, however. 

The idea that sanctuary laws are ‘‘pro-immigrant’’ is perhaps the greatest myth 

of all. Keeping illegal criminals in the community subjects all immigrants to the 

thrall of crime and impedes economic growth in immigrant communities. 

Obviously, the final prerequisite for ridding immigrant communities of illegal 

thugs is enough ICE detention space and deportation resources. But providing police 

officers with every lawful tool to fight crime is a crucial first step to protecting immigrant lives and should be the unanimous recommendation of the Subcommittee.

17

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Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you, Ms. Mac Donald. 

Ms. Fernandez. 

TESTIMONY OF MAI FERNANDEZ, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, 

LATIN AMERICAN YOUTH CENTER 

Ms. FERNANDEZ. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members of 

the Committee. It is a pleasure to be here before you today to 

speak on the issues related to gang memberships and immigration. 

Before I go into the substance of my testimony, I would like to 

tell you a bit about the Latin America Youth Center where I work. 

The Latin America Youth Center is based in D.C. in the Columbia 

Heights neighborhood just up the street on 14th and Columbia 

Road. It is a community-based, multicultural, multi-lingual youth 

and family development center. We provide many educational programs and tutoring for youth who are in school as well as GED and 

vocational training for those who have dropped out. Additionally, 

we offer substance abuse counseling for young people in need of 

these services and housing for homeless youth. 

We serve about 3,000 youth through our programs. I think that 

it is safe to say that a majority of our youth are gang-involved or 

have been gang-involved. However, I need to point out that only a 

small number of our kids are involved in criminal activity. 

Let me explain. Many of the parents of our youth immigrated to 

the United States to find safety and a better way of life. Upon arriving in the U.S., many of these adults find themselves in need of 

working two to three jobs to make ends meet. Keeping the family 

clothed, fed, and housed becomes the priority. Unfortunately, this 

means that children are not provided the supervision they need. 

The lack of supervision often leads to boredom and a sense of insecurity which causes the children to join gangs. Joining a gang 

gives a youth a group of friends to hang out with and a sense of 

security they cannot elsewhere find in their lives. These kids are 

not super-predators. They are kids looking for a sense of belonging. 

Most of the youth who are in gangs are not criminals. It would be 

inappropriate to punish all immigrant youth who are in gangs by 

taking away their immigration status. 

Having said this, I am a former prosecutor from Manhattan and 

do believe that when a gang member gets involved in criminal activity, there needs to be a decisive law enforcement response. Two 

years back, Columbia Heights, D.C., where I work, was plagued 

with a spree of gang-related murders. There was a swift law enforcement response which investigated the cases and apprehended 

the perpetrators. Several of these young people are now serving life 

sentences. The law enforcement response sent a clear message to 

other gang-involved youth: If you commit crimes, you will be punished. 

After the spree of homicides, both the community and the police 

realized that they should not only respond to gang-related criminal 

activity, but should also work together to prevent it. As a result, 

the Gang Intervention Partnership, the GIP, was created. The GIP 

brings together police, probation officers, prosecutors, and community social service providers to develop intervention strategies for 

youth who are at high risk of committing crimes. What often occurs 

is that a community member will find out that a youth is in some 

27

kind of trouble. The members of the GIP come together to ensure 

that the youth is supervised and that he or she is involved in structured activities. If the youth faces real security problems, arrangements have been made that the youth be placed in a witness protection program. The outcome has been that there have been no 

gang-related homicides in Columbia Heights in the last 2 years. 

I’d also like to make the point that a youth who has been involved in a gang-related criminal activity can turn around his or 

her life. At the Latin America Youth Center, we have several programs that work with youth who have a criminal record. We have 

reentry programs whereby probation officers assign us newly released youth, and we help them find jobs, educational opportunities, and counseling. In other instances, the youth come to us freely 

looking for opportunities to change their lives. Every year we graduate approximately 70 youth from our programs who have advanced their education and who are ready to find jobs. 

Our community has been able to tailor an effective and appropriate response to gang-related crime in our area. This experience 

has brought me to believe that a Federal response to the gang 

issue may be inappropriate, particularly an immigration response. 

Although we still have a steady influx of immigrants coming to our 

community, the majority of youth are born in the United States. 

Consequently, an easier way of deporting youth would not solve our 

particular gang problem. 

Moreover, the character of gangs can change from neighborhood 

to neighborhood, and it most definitely changes from State to State. 

I know that the panel here has talked to you about the atrocities 

of MS-13. Despite the MS-13’s visible presence in Virginia, it has 

a very small presence in D.C. And I should add that the majority 

of our Latino youth are Salvadorean. Different tactics need to be 

used to address the gang problems in different jurisdictions. Federal solutions are too wide-sweeping to address the unique problems of a particular area. 

Lastly, I’d like to point out that the gang situation in this country has to be kept in perspective. Despite the media attention received by the issue, serious youth crime has fallen. The most recent 

crime survey from the FBI’s Uniform Crime reporting program that 

breaks down the age of people arrested for serious offenses in 2003 

showed that the number of people under 18 arrested declined by 

30 percent. Moreover, between 1993 and 2003, youth homicide arrests declined 75 percent. Gang crime is serious, but the response 

needs to be proportionate to the problem. Enacting legislation that 

would imperil the immigration status of countless people but may 

have little effect on decreasing crime is not a wise response to the 

problem. 

Thank you very much, and I am here to answer any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Fernandez follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MAI FERNANDEZ

Good afternoon, Congressman Hostettler, Congresswoman Jackson Lee and members of the Committee. It is a pleasure to be before you today to speak on issues 

related to gang memberships and immigration. 

Before I go into the substance of my testimony, I would like to tell you a bit about 

the Latin American Youth Center (LAYC) where I work. The LAYC is based here 

in DC in the Columbia Heights neighborhood. It is a community-based, multi-culVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:11 Jun 21, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 G:\WORK\IMMIG\041305\20528.000 HJUD2 PsN: 20528
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tural and multi-lingual youth and family development center. We provide many educational programs and tutoring for youth who are in school as well as GED and vocational training for those who have dropped out. Additionally, we offer substance 

abuse counseling for young people in need of those services and housing for homeless youth. 

We serve about 3,000 youth through our programs. I think that it is safe to say 

that a majority are gang involved or have been gang involved at some point in their 

life. However, only a small number of our kids are involved in criminal activity. 

Let me explain. Many of the parents of our youth immigrated to the United States 

to find safety and a better way of life for their children. Upon arriving in the U.S. 

many of these adults find themselves needing to work 2 to 3 jobs just to make ends 

meet. Keeping the family clothed, fed and housed becomes the priority. Unfortunately, this means that children are not provided the supervision that they need. 

The lack of supervision often leads to boredom and a sense of insecurity which 

cause the children to join gangs. Joining a gang gives a youth a group of friends 

to hang out with, and a sense of security which they cannot get elsewhere in their 

lives. These kids are not super-predators—they are kids looking for a sense of belonging. Most youth who are in gangs are not criminals. It would be inappropriate 

to punish all immigrant youth who are in gangs by taking away their Temporary 

Protection Status. 

Having said this, I am a former prosecutor from Manhattan, and do believe that 

when gang members get involved in criminal activity there needs to be a decisive 

law enforcement response. Two years back, Columbia Heights, D.C., where I work, 

was plagued with a spree of gang related murders. There was a swift law enforcement response which investigated the cases and apprehended the perpetrators. Several of these young people are now serving life sentences. The law enforcement response sent a clear message to other gang involved youth—if you commit crimes you 

will be punished. 

After the spree of homicides, both the community and the police realized that they 

should not only respond to gang related criminal activity, but should also work together to prevent it. As a result the Gang Intervention Partnership—the GIP—was 

created. The GIP brings together police, probation officers, prosecutors and community social service providers to develop intervention strategies for youth who are 

highly at risk of committing crimes. What often occurs is that a community member 

will find out that a youth is in some kind of trouble. The members of the GIP come 

together to ensure that the youth is supervised and that he/she is involved in structured activities. If the youth faces real security problems arrangements have been 

made to place the youth in witness protection programs. The outcome has been that 

there have been no gang-related homicides in Columbia Heights in the last two 

years. 

I’d also like to make the point that a youth who has been involved in gang-related 

criminal activity can turn around his/her life. At the Latin American Youth Center 

we have several programs that work with youth who have a criminal record. We 

have re-entry programs where by probation officers assign us newly released youth 

and we help them find jobs, education opportunities and counseling. In other instances, the youth come to us freely looking for opportunities to change their lives. 

Every year we graduate approximately 70 youth from our programs who have advanced their education and who are ready to find jobs. 

Our community has been able to tailor an effective and appropriate response to 

gang-related crime in our area. This experience has brought me to believe that a 

federal response to the gang issue maybe inappropriate—particularly an immigration response. Although, we still have a steady influx of immigrants coming to our 

community, the majority of our youth are born in the United States. Consequently, 

an easier way of deporting youth would not solve our gang problem. 

Moreover, the character of gangs can change from neighborhood to neighborhood 

and it most definitely changes from state to state. I know that many of you have 

heard about the atrocities committed by MS13 members. Despite MS13’s visible 

presence in Virginia, it has a very small presence in DC. Different tactics need to 

be used to address the gang problems in different jurisdictions. Federal solutions 

are too wide sweeping to address the unique problems of a particular area. 

Lastly, I’d like to point out that the gang situation in this country has to be kept 

in perspective. Despite the media attention received by this issue, serious youth 

crime has fallen. The most recent crime survey from the FBI’s Uniform Crime reporting program that breaks down the age of people arrested for serious offense in 

2003 showed that the number of people under 18 arrested declined by 30%. Moreover, between 1993 and 2003, youth homicide arrests declined by 75%. Gang crime 

is serious but the response needs to be proportionate to the problem. Enacting legisVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:11 Jun 21, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 G:\WORK\IMMIG\041305\20528.000 HJUD2 PsN: 20528
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lation that would imperil the immigration status of countless people but may have 

little effect in decreasing crime is not a wise response to this problem. 

Thank you for your time. I am available to answer questions at this time.

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you, Ms. Fernandez. 

The Subcommittee will now recess for approximately 30 minutes. 

We have two votes in the House, and I assume we will be 30 to 

35 minutes, and we appreciate your indulgence. 

We are recessed. 

[Recess.] 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. The Subcommittee will come to order. We will 

now turn to questions from Members of the Subcommittee. The 

Chair recognizes himself for 5 minutes. 

Secretary Garcia, nationals of three countries that are reportedly 

sources of large numbers of gang members—Nicaragua, Honduras, 

and El Salvador—currently are eligible for temporary protected 

status, or TPS, in the United States. This Subcommittee has been 

told that two of three purported gang members accused of raping 

two deaf girls in a Massachusetts park in 2002 were Salvadorans 

who had applied for temporary protected status. How many criminal gang members that ICE has arrested in its anti-gang efforts 

had TPS? 

Mr. GARCIA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will use the Operation 

Community Shield universe, so to speak, and that was 5,000 members, gang members in a database that we compiled for Operation 

Community Shield. Of that number, the following numbers of 

aliens had been granted temporary protected status: for El Salvador, 291; for Honduras, 43; and for Nicaragua, one. So somewhere in the neighborhood of 350. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you. Have TPS grants to nationals of 

those three countries made it more difficult for ICE to use the immigration laws to remove alien gang members from the United 

States? And if so, in what ways? 

Mr. GARCIA. If someone has been granted TPS, in order to remove them from the United States, in effect to take away that status, you have to show certain criminal convictions. 

In the case of Operation Community Shield, ICE had arrested 

three gang members who had TPS status. In spite of that status, 

they are subject to removal. So it really depends on the history, 

particularly the criminal history, of the particular gang member. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you. 

Ms. Mac Donald, in your testimony, you state that, ‘‘Sanctuary 

laws are a serious impediment to stemming gang violence.’’ In what 

ways do sanctuary laws impede law enforcement’s anti-gang efforts? 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Sanctuary laws impede local law enforcement’s anti-gang effort because they deprive cops of often their only 

tool to get a gang member off the street. As I said, it’s often very 

difficult to build a typical criminal case against a gang member because a witness fears that he’s going to get shot if he testifies 

against him. 

We’ve learned in New York City that the best way to fight crime 

is to use every single law on the books. Mayor Giuliani brought 

crime down 70 percent by using things like turnstile-jumping laws, 

the graffiti laws, and he found that there’s a great chain of being 

30

in criminal activity. Somebody who is stealing a coat one day is 

shooting somebody the next day, or somebody who’s spraying graffiti one day is robbing somebody of their wallet in Central Park the 

next day. 

Somebody who is in the country illegally and is committing 

crime, if you can leverage that immigration offense now to get him 

off the streets, to my mind it’s insane to require the police department to laboriously build up a criminal case against them because 

that may never happen. We all know that a huge majority of 

crimes never get reported. Police officers in L.A., in particular, 

chafe every single day under Special Order 40 because they know 

how it ties their hands to making communities safe. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you. In your testimony, you discuss the 

need for resources to deal with this issue of gang violence. Last 

year, in the National Intelligence Reform Act, we included provisions that the President signed into law calling for effectively tripling the number of ICE agents, 4,000 over 5 years; doubling the 

number of Border Patrol agents, 10,000 more over the next 5 years; 

and tripling the number of detention beds, 40,000 over the next 5 

years. 

Do you think these resources would be helpful in this fight 

against gang violence? 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Chairman Hostettler, they’re essential. 

They’re absolutely essential. I’ve talked to border agents, especially 

on the Canadian border, who are picking up the category of OTMs 

on a weekly basis, other than Mexicans, Bangladeshis, Iranians. 

They have no idea who these guys are. They have no place to put 

them, and it’s catch-and-release policy. They catch them and they 

release them. They say, Please, Mr. Illegal Alien, show up in 6 

months for your deportation hearing. 

We all know what happens. Eighty-five percent never show up 

again, and people from terrorist-sponsoring countries have about a 

96-percent no-show rate. 

So giving police or ICE greater resources to arrest people for immigration crimes is meaningless if we simply release them back 

into the country. And I cannot understand why the Bush administration has not followed the will of Congress in that in budgeting 

for the positions and the beds that Congress so clearly passed in 

the intelligence reform bill. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank you. 

At this time the Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Texas, 

the Ranking Member, for purposes of an opening statement and 

questions. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Mr. Chairman, first of all, thank you very 

much for yielding me the time, and let me for the open record indicate that I serve on two Committees dealing with this question. 

And at the beginning of the hearing, I was in the Homeland Security Committee with the new Secretary. And inasmuch as that was 

our first time with him on some very important management issues 

and policy issues, I ask and thank the Committee for its indulgence, and thank you very much for the opportunity for my opening 

statement. 

Mr. Chairman, what I would like—I see that there’s another 

Member here. I’d like to give the opening statement and then have 

31

you yield to the other Member for his questioning, and then I’ll 

come back to my questioning at that time. Thank you very much. 

It seems that we have been encountering the question of immigrants, immigration, and a series of changes that have come about 

over the last couple of weeks. The border States in the Northern 

border and Texas in particular in the Southern border are up in 

arms about new policies suggesting that passports need to be utilized for what has been a comfortable relationship in those States, 

partly in the United States in terms of commerce and exchange. 

But we realize that it’s important for policies to be established so 

that we can in a comprehensive manner secure our borders and secure the homeland. 

As we look at the different issues, I think that it is important 

to establish priority for what is important. Obviously, someone in 

the policy sector thought that as an expansion of the 9/11 intelligence bill that possibly the use of passports might be helpful. I, 

on the other hand, question whether or not another focus could be 

utilized to ensure that people who cross the border, at least those 

who are interested or involved in commerce, might be able to use 

another document and be more flexible. 

This speaks in particular to where we are today on this particular hearing. I wonder whether or not this is a crisis, whether 

this is an emergency, whether or not this is not an area that could 

be handled in a totally different way or over an extended period of 

time to review what has become, I understand, an increasing membership in gangs. 

I recall some maybe 10, almost 15 years ago being a member of 

the Houston City Council, and our own youngsters were engaged 

in gang activity. It was raging all over the nation. We began to use 

what I think Ms. Fernandez has mentioned—intervention. And it’s 

interesting that you mentioned, Ms. Fernandez, that the participation in crime among adolescents and youth has substantially gone 

down, as I understand your testimony. So allow me just to share 

a few thoughts about this particular hearing and what I think 

needs to be a balanced approach. 

The Department of Justice has mentioned that we have more 

than 25,000 gangs in the United States. The most recent national 

youth gang survey indicates that there are more than 750,000 gang 

members. Some of these gangs resemble organized crime syndicates. They commit gun violence, gun trafficking, drug trafficking, and other serious crimes. 

Needless to say, I’m not diminishing the impact of gangs and 

that they can be extremely dangerous. I certainly am reminded of 

what I think was an urban gang, a citizen-based gang, if you will, 

that plagued the streets of Baltimore and caused the loss of life of 

a mother, a father, and five of her children, only because she wanted to stand up to them and told the police that they were trafficking drugs in the community. 

I am not here to promote the Gang for a Day Program. But the 

gang we hear most about at this hearing is, of course, the MS-13. 

Composed mainly of Salvadoreans and other Central Americans, 

this gang has an estimated 8,000 to 10,000 members in the United 

States. MS-13 was established in Los Angeles in the 1980’s by 

Salvadoreans fleeing from a civil war. When they came to Los AnVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:11 Jun 21, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 G:\WORK\IMMIG\041305\20528.000 HJUD2 PsN: 20528
32

geles, Mexican gangs preyed on them. The response was to band 

together in a mara or posse, and it was to engage in, if you will, 

conflict. 

According to the ICE Bureau, the need to respond to the proliferation of MS-13 gangs is becoming a public safety priority. In 

January of 2005, ICE launched Operation Community Shield. The 

goal of this operation is to dismantle the MS-13 organization by 

targeting its members’ financial assets, et cetera. 

To do this, ICE will bring to bear all of its law enforcement investigative powers, including criminal prosecution, immigration authorities, financial investigation, asset seizures. ICE will work with 

partners in the Federal law enforcement community, including U.S. 

Attorney’s Offices, the FBI, DEA, ATF, and ICE will also work with 

foreign governments to identify known gang members. ICE agents 

have arrested more than 135 MS-13 gang members nationwide. 

The gang problem is being addressed at the local level, too. In 

1997, the Fairfax Police Department made youth gang crime a priority and established a Gang Investigation Unit. In 2003, funding 

from the U.S. Congress enabled the creation of a Northern Virginia 

Gang Task Force, and that task force worked very closely with 

ICE. 

It is important to emphasize that Northern Virginia does not 

limit its effort to law enforcement activities. The task force also 

does public education, awareness presentations, provides gang activity awareness training to school resource officers and Fairfax 

County Public School personnel, and has established diversion programs such as GREAT, Gang Resistance Education and Training. 

I’m pleased to also acknowledge that out of the siege of gangs in 

Houston, we established a gang office and gang task force. 

I say that in conclusion to acknowledge this—and might I say, 

Mr. Garcia, that the Secretary was very complementary of ICE and 

the enforcement activities when I probed him about the funding 

problems with ICE. He has offered that he looks forward to raising 

the profile of ICE. And when we hear about what they’ve done in 

this gang effort, I too applaud this. 

My problem is that if we have this hearing to write more legislation, to take young people who are associating with gangs for the 

very reason that Ms. Fernandez has said, to be part of something, 

to find a family base, to find comfort in a foreign land, then I think 

we’re doing the wrong thing. 

Many of these individuals who are not citizens may, in fact, however, have come here in very early life. That means the same problem that we had when we passed the 1996 immigration reform bill 

where one strike, one criminal incident, one juvenile incident 

caused individuals to be prospectively deported to places where 

they had never lived, this to me is the beginning of a wrong direction. 

I believe if there is a consistent criminal history of some gang 

member, then rightly so on a case-by-base basis a determination of 

deportation can be made. But if this is a web of—if you will, sort 

of a fishnet being thrown out to the local gang on the street corner, 

and in comes 13-year-olds and 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds and 

16-year-olds and 17-year-olds who are associated by a membership 

or a desire to belong or because they don’t speak the language here 

33

in the United States, then I think we make a grave mistake by 

yielding and allowing those intervention efforts to be utilized and 

passing massive immigration reform that includes—and I’ve been 

sort of generous with my words—immigration laws. I don’t consider 

it reform—and start labeling and deporting masses of young people 

in an unnecessary effort. 

And so, Mr. Chairman, I welcome this hearing, but I hope that 

we will have a hearing on the President’s guest worker program 

that I think needs more than tinkering with. I hope we’ll have a 

hearing on my earned access to legalization and comprehensive reform which allows undocumented aliens in the United States to be 

able to stand in line and access legalization. 

I hope we will complete the CASE Act, which part of the legislation that’s dealing with anti-smuggling, got into the intelligence 

bill, but I believe that we need to put in place a reward system that 

will allow more evidence to come in and more information to come 

in to stop smuggling of individuals into the United States. This, I 

think, speaks to real immigration reform. 

So I look forward to questioning the witnesses, and at the time 

of my questioning, I will submit into the record or ask to the submit into the record a letter from the city of Houston Anti-Gang 

Task Force. I look forward to working with you, but let’s look at 

the crisis and the serious issues and let’s try to find common 

ground on issues like this. 

I yield back. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. I thank the gentlelady. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. King, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. KING. I thank the Chair, and I thank the witnesses for their 

testimony today. 

As I listened to this testimony, there are a few things that 

caused me to raise my eyebrows, and I thought I had a feel and 

an understanding of some of the magnitude. But as we debated the 

gang act earlier in full Committee and as I listened to your testimony and Ms. Garst, as I recall that testimony, say gangs are 

about 75 percent illegals in the region that you would be familiar 

with, and as I see some of your—I think your written testimony 

says that about 50 percent may well be El Salvadoreans. And if I 

remember correctly, Ms. Mac Donald, you may have stated that in 

the high 90th percentile was illegal gang activity in the region that 

you’re familiar with. Would that still be correct? Did I get that 

right? 

Ms. MAC DONALD. I think the number you’re referring to is 95 

percent of outstanding homicide warrants in Los Angeles. 

Mr. KING. I do recall that statement. 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Are illegal aliens, right. But according to police, say, something like MS is overwhelmingly illegal, far more 

than a mere majority. 

Mr. KING. So would that number be in the 90’s, would you expect? 

Ms. MAC DONALD. I would say, yes. 

Mr. KING. And I know that’s probably impossible to nail that 

down factually. 

34

Ms. MAC DONALD. You know, the sanctuary laws prevent us from 

knowing that, and, of course, the denominator is unknown either 

because we don’t really know the number of gangs, period. So it’s 

all a speculation game. 

Mr. KING. Another piece that came out of the testimony is that 

even if that number were 100 percent illegals involved in gang activity—I don’t expect that they’re actively and aggressively recruiting others, which would be American citizens, children, our children who are being victimized by this kind of gang activity, and I’d 

just ask you this: In an ideal world, the world I thought I grew up 

in, we would have enforced these laws a long time ago. And could 

you maybe just—by the look on your face, maybe you speculated 

the same thing, and I’d ask you to paint the picture of the way the 

world would be if we had gone back 20 years and enforced our immigration laws the way we all expected that we would. 

Ms. MAC DONALD. Well, I think you would have more respect for 

the rule of law. You would not have the smuggling trade if people 

in countries bordering us knew that when they came to this country illegally, they were not entering a safe zone. You would not 

have criminal syndicates able to get across the border because the 

demand wouldn’t be there. 

The failure over decades to enforce laws on the books has given 

rise to the fact that we now have, since 9/11, made no progress in 

controlling illegal immigration. This is a scandal. A terrorist cannot 

commit damage on our soil if he’s not here. But we have not been 

able to stop the half a million net that come across the border 

every year. And that’s because we have decided not to enforce immigration laws for decades. Republicans haven’t enforced them; 

Democrats haven’t enforced them. And this has basically sent a 

message to the world that if you can cross our border, you’re home 

free. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Ms. Mac Donald. 

And, Ms. Garst, would you inform this Committee as to what 

ICE would need to do to deport an alien gang member who has 

been granted asylum? 

Ms. GARST. The position that we’re put in, sir, is unenviable, and 

that often we don’t know the status until we’re at a bond hearing 

on a criminal charge. Then we are blessed now by Congressman 

Goodlatte to have local ICE agents. When I began my prosecution 

career in 1994, we had no support in that regard. We would call 

the local office here. 

What we do is contact our local ICE agents. A number of hearings are held. Our primary concern on our level, on a small, rural, 

local level is can I hold these individuals without bond on violent 

crimes. And I will tell you, unless we can get a very fast answer 

regarding their immigration status, often they’re not held and 

they’re bonded. 

So we don’t even get to the deportation process in many cases. 

Mr. KING. I have another question that I’m very curious about, 

and that is this culture of the illegal ethnic enclave that tends to 

be a community. Has that culture of that illegal ethnic enclave, has 

that been the environment that has produced this gang violence? 

Ms. Mac Donald first. 

35

Ms. MAC DONALD. Yes, it’s a very odd type of underclass that 

we’re generating. You have guys that are working as day laborers 

during the day, and then they gang-bang at night. And the police 

basically, you know, know where they’re getting off their pizza parlor job, and then they go join their gang members and sometimes, 

as Ms. Jackson Lee suggests, it’s simply community activity, but 

often it’s criminal activity. 

And what you’re seeing, as you yourself suggested, second and 

third generation immigrants at an ever younger age are also getting sucked up into the gang culture. 

Mr. KING. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member for 5 minutes for 

questions. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you very much. 

Ms. Fernandez, why don’t I start with you. You’ve heard the exasperation, I think, of Ms. Mac Donald and Ms. Garst with respect 

to the violence or the criminal activity. I’m opposed to a broad 

brush to that—to those representations. I do believe that we’ve got 

to find ways of enforcing immigration laws or finding laws to enforce. At the same time, I believe that there is danger to broadbrushing these groups known as gangs and also danger in a broadbrush removal, for example, of a TPS status rather than looking at 

the pattern of the individual’s activity or looking at it maybe on a 

case-by-case determination. 

Tell me again through your testimony how you would—how you 

would help decipher, if you would, how you would part the waters 

on who could be saved, what intervention does versus the criminal 

activity that the two other witnesses are speaking of. 

Ms. FERNANDEZ. Thank you. Prior to coming here, I met with the 

Gang Task Force, which is—the Metropolitan Police Department 

has a Gang Task Force here. And I said, okay, truly, what do you 

think has stopped the fact—the homicides in the Columbia Heights 

area, because if any of you were watching the Washington Post, the 

news 2 years back, we just had kid after kid after kid killed. And 

they said we have 85 of the gang heads in prison right now, five 

of which are serving life sentences. That is a very decisive law enforcement response, which I completely and totally agree with. 

Those kids have committed horrible crimes, and they should be in 

prison. 

However, we’ve got lots of young people, young adults that are 

working for us, that are with us, that have been in one way or another associated with a gang. And so if you lump murderers and 

kids who want to be cool and say that they’re a member of a gang 

because it’s cool when you’re 16, 17 years old to say that you’re 

part of something that’s bigger than yourself, then you can’t lump 

those two groups of people together. One’s a teenager and the other 

one’s a criminal. And you have to have different kinds of interventions for both. One’s a very strict law enforcement intervention. 

The other one is let’s find something for you to do, remain cool and 

remain feeling like you’re belonging to something, but yet let’s not 

put you in a category where we’re going to throw you into a category of criminals. 

36

You know, I also need to take some issue with what Ms. Mac 

Donald said, that, you know, we’ve got day laborers that are then 

becoming gang members. That may be true in certain specific instances, but if anybody has worked as a day laborer where you’re 

laying bricks every day, probably chances are that in your evening 

job you don’t have the energy to pick up and then start doing gang 

activity. Most—many of our parents, many of the people who we 

work with, work two to three jobs. They’re the people who clean, 

you know, offices at night. They’re the people who do work that 

other people in this country don’t want to do. 

So I think that we’ve got to be very careful of lumping everybody 

with a Latino surname into the category of a person who’s doing 

bad. So I think that we’ve got to be very careful of not doing broadbrush type sweeps. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Mr. Garcia, if you would, we’ve made a very 

strong point in separating responsibilities of the Federal Government from State government, and one of those has been immigration. That is a Federal responsibility. We forged the Homeland Security Committee—excuse me, Homeland Security Department in 

order to bring more focus on immigration and other aspects of securing the homeland. 

If we were to change the sanctuary laws and begin to engage 

local law enforcement of every level, I would think that maybe the 

good work that Ms. Fernandez discovered at the Washington Metropolitan Police Department might not have been such good work 

because, frankly, law enforcement locally, whether they’re constables or sheriffs, are overburdened. Is it the position of the Justice Department to want to rid the system of the sanctuary laws 

and begin to pierce into local jurisdictions for them to begin to do 

Federal immigration work? First question. 

The second question is, which plays into this: If we are to blanket the war or the fight against gangs, which, as Ms. Fernandez 

has said, would come in all shapes and sizes, some of them will 

have a violent history and should be incarcerated. You indicated a 

criminal history. Should we be blanketing treatment toward them 

on the basis of overall violent acts? If we are to do that—then this 

may not have the nexus that I’d like it to have—what do we do 

about citizens who are taking up arms on the Arizona border and 

setting themselves up independently to be of assistance, albeit out 

of frustration? If we lose control over one, we lose control over another. 

Mr. GARCIA. Thank you, Congresswoman. Your first question, 

certainly immigration enforcement is a Federal responsibility. 

There are statutes that States and local jurisdictions can take advantage of to actually participate in the enforcement of immigration law in a formal way, under 287(g) as the provision. Florida has 

taken advantage of that statute, as has Alabama. So there’s a legal 

mechanism for actually State and local officials to get training from 

the Department of Homeland Security, from ICE, and become in 

essence deputized under our supervision, again, with the appropriate training and go out and enforce the——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And that’s the choice of that particular jurisdiction. 

37

Mr. GARCIA. Opt in, so to speak, that’s correct, in certain jurisdictions. I believe L.A. County recently has passed legislation to do 

that as well. 

So there are specific provisions for affirmative enforcement by 

local jurisdictions. 

In terms of the sanctuary laws and piercing the sanctuary laws, 

I have some trouble understanding the concept. We enforce the 

law. We have good working relationships with State and local jurisdictions. There are natural partnerships there. Some jurisdictions, 

mainly at a political level, have passed statements and representations that they are sanctuaries in terms of immigration law. As an 

overall matter I think it’s a very bad message, but I don’t know 

what the specific impact would be within the jurisdiction on our enforcement capabilities. We would still go in. We would still have 

the right to enforce the law, whatever law, immigration law in this 

case, in those jurisdictions, and we do that. 

And in most cases—and I come from New York—I know we have 

a very good working relationship with the NYPD up there, and 

there are many ways in which our interests intersect in enforcement. So I’m not sure what it would mean in terms of piercing 

sanctuary laws. You know, we look at each jurisdiction, we exercise 

our authorities, and we always seek to work with our partners. 

In terms of the Minutemen, I believe you’re speaking about on 

the Arizona border, the Department of Homeland Security has 

come out very strongly against any vigilantism. It’s distracting resources on the border for us to have to watch the watcher, so to 

speak. Very fortunate and very grateful that there have been no 

violent incidents on the border, but—— Ms. JACKSON LEE. Grateful is the word. 

Mr. GARCIA. But the situation is being monitored very carefully 

primarily by Customs and Border Protection with the Border Patrol and other assets down at the border. And again, as you point 

out, borne of frustration as well, but we’re keeping a careful eye 

on that. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. On those sanctuary laws—just as a final 

point, on these sanctuary laws, you are still doing the Federal task 

of enforcing immigration laws. I think the point that I was making 

is that we write legislation to eliminate or to pierce an individual 

State’s determination about how they want to not be engaged in 

that. You know, we are pressing upon State jurisdictions by any 

Federal law the responsibility of the Federal Government. That’s 

just my point. 

Mr. GARCIA. You’re saying it’s odd to have a Federal law that a 

State law says we’re not going to enforce or allow anyone to enforce 

the law. So as again, I said, I think the sanctuary laws are a very 

bad message. I think luckily we’ve been able to forge relationships 

in most jurisdictions. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. I thank the gentlelady. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. 

Goodlatte, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 

Ms. Garst, you noted in your testimony that the number of victims of gang violence, a number of them have been reluctant to 

come forward because of their illegal status, and I wonder if you 

38

might comment on that and tell us what you think the United 

States could do to help make that easier for you to get the cooperation of illegal aliens? 

Ms. GARST. One of the heartbreaking situations that we face in 

prosecution are very violent cases like the case of the young girl 

whose brother was a Sureno-13 member and was stabbed by MS13. Not only did she not receive medical care because her family 

would not take her to the hospital for fear of police intervention, 

but it was only when a teacher and a guidance counselor saw her 

openly having the wounds, that we even got to hear about the case. 

They would not let her speak to the police about the case in any 

detail. They would not permit testimony and actually refused any 

cooperation whatsoever because not just the legal status but also 

gang ties. 

One of the issues that we discussed and Sergeant Rush and I 

have discussed, we even had a homicide regarding many illegal 

witnesses that would not come forward and the result was an acquittal. And the sad situation in that case was certainly had we 

been able to send a message that our local ICE agents have told 

us that, look, if you’re a victim of crime, we’re not targeting you 

for deportation. 

There has to be a public awareness or education campaign that 

we can get into the community and let people know, and we’ve 

started doing on a smaller scale, as you’re aware, at the local poultry industry and also at schools, and as you participated in our 

gang forum at our local high school, is to educate the community 

that, yes, what Congresswoman Lee is talking about, intervention 

through Boys and Girls Club is there, and that also prosecution is 

there to help you when you’re a victim. When you’re a victim of the 

home invasion when a gang member comes in and holds you at 

gunpoint and takes your jewelry or demands money, we will be 

there to help you. If there is a way that ICE can help us, perhaps, 

I don’t know, through pamphlets in a bilingual way, to help people 

know that the criminal justice system will be there for when 

they’re victims as well. 

We have been seeing some limited success in cases, where people 

of illegal status have come forward in a recent case, as I had told 

you and Senator Warner, but it’s been a great struggle. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Have you been able to work with the immigration authorities? Have you talked to them about this concern and 

have they offered any——

Ms. GARST. We have, and they have told us that their focus is 

not on victims of crime, that they are not focusing on illegal victims 

of crime. But I will be very earnest with you, Congressman, there 

is a distrust somewhat of ICE certainly within the community, so 

it will be very important for us to continue to forge the relationship 

that we need to to help the illegal alien. But what’s important is 

the gang members know this and they are picking people that are 

illegal to prey on them, to go into their homes, because just in the 

case of the stabbing and the home invasion that we spoke about 

regarding them going into the home, the MS-13 members, they 

know these people will, one, either not report, or two, not testify. 

So they’re home free. 

39

Mr. GOODLATTE. Let me ask you. In your testimony you’ve mentioned—I found this very interesting—that gangs, rival gangs were 

attempting to recruit children as young as second graders. Why are 

gangs interested in people that young? 

Ms. GARST. That is the greatest fear that we have in our community. I’m working very closely, I’m on the Board of Directors of the 

Boys and Girls Club, and a lot of this information has been verified 

through teachers in the school system. What happens is, as Ms. 

Fernandez spoke about, many of these people are working two and 

three jobs, and the children are relying on community members to 

help in the evenings and other things or programs. What these 

gang members are doing in our community—and I can only speak 

on our community, and again I think it is different in other 

places—are coming in and selecting children at an early age to be 

the banner carriers, to tell other people about the gang, to pledge 

their loyalty early. 

They’re actually even—we have instances of children within elementary schools actually beating up other students who had family 

members or themselves were showing other gang signs. What 

they’re doing is they’re recruiting at an early age to set the stage 

for other criminal activity, and it’s not so much that these children 

are criminal gang members yet, they’re being primed for that. 

They’re being taught the gang system. They’re being taught the 

gang loyalties. And what we’re seeing locally is that they’re sending 

these kids to do the vandalisms, to do the break-ins because they 

know that the juvenile system will not be as tough on these children, and therefore the gang will be much better off because they 

continue to perpetuate their profit motive. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Thank you. I believe my time has expired. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank the gentleman. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California, Ms. 

Waters, for 5 minutes. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and Members. For this session of Congress I asked to serve on this Committee because I come from Los Angeles, a city, a district and an 

area where we have a growing number of immigrants. We have 

legal immigrants and we have illegal immigrants. We have a very, 

very complicated problem in the greater Los Angeles area, and in 

some communities it’s about to explode. 

In the South Los Angeles area it is about to be a confrontation 

between black and Mexican gangs. The Mexican gangs are directed 

from inside the prisons. I’ve heard nobody talk about the influence 

of the Mexican mafia or the prisons on what is going on on the 

street. The territories that are being fought over are being decided 

by the leaders inside the prisons. And as many of the Mexican 

gangs advance into the black neighborhoods to take over these territories, they are simply killing each other. They just—now it’s not 

even who are you and where are you from? They’re just walking 

up and shooting dead in the head, Mexicans shooting blacks and 

blacks shooting Mexicans. And I’m told, just as a few days ago, by 

folks on the street that it is about to get really bad because the 

black gangs, the Bloods and the CRIPS are about to combine to 

40

face off with the Mexican gangs that are being directed from inside 

the prisons. 

So as I sit here and I listen to all of this, I just can’t—I just wonder if we really understand what is going on and how bad it is. I 

mean it is, it is bad. And while we talk about—we try to talk about 

it in ways that certainly will protect people’s rights, that will not 

simply just drag young people into a broad net, as it is being referred to. We got to do something, we got to do something. 

I am very angry at the Administration for not protecting the border. I’m very angry that the President of the United States, who 

promised 2,000 more border guards, came up with 200 in the budget. I just think this business about whether or not we’re protecting 

the border cannot be played with politically. You know, this Administration, or given that it is the Administration, I wouldn’t care 

whether it was a Democrat or Republican administration, we’re 

going to have to do something to protect the border. 

And let me tell you what’s wrong with the gang members from 

across the border who are causing problems. They’re apprehended, 

and if they’re not apprehended if they commit a crime, they’re 

crossing back and forth across the border. They leave and they 

come back because we don’t have any protection on the border. 

I would hope that everybody would be frightened enough, I mean 

absolutely frightened enough about what is going on and how it is 

spiraling out of control, that some very decisive action is taken 

which will include some harsh measures. Again, you know, like I 

said earlier, you don’t get any more liberal than I am. I mean I’m 

a liberal with a big L, okay? And I proudly say it. And my life has 

been about protecting people’s rights, about making sure that we 

have a criminal justice system that just doesn’t incarcerate innocent people. I don’t want innocent people incorporated, but we’ve 

got gang bangers, black, white, and I want to tell you we had Jamaican gangs, some of the worst. I mean drug dealing killers. I 

want them off the street. I don’t care where they come from. I don’t 

care if they’re black, green, purple, white, I want them off the 

street. I’m sick and tired or what is going on in Los Angeles in my 

community. I’m sick and tired of law enforcement not being able 

to make sense out of this. I’m sick and tired of people who commit 

crimes over and over again, and the gangs that are walking up 

shooting people in the head remaining on the street. 

Now, I guess we can pontificate and we can sit in these Committees all day long, but unless Democrats and Republicans alike are 

willing to join hands, say to this Administration, we want the resources on the border, we want the border protected, we want to 

go after the gang dealers. They call them shot callers, the shot callers. Everybody knows who they are. They’re making the decisions. 

I want to know why don’t we have the information from the prisons 

to know who’s sending their orders out on the streets. I never hear 

that talked about. It’s time to get serious about this business. It 

is time to get very serious about the business. 

And that’s all I have to say. I’m not trying to relate to this flimflam. That’s all I have to say. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Thank the gentlelady. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California for 5 

minutes, Mr. Lungren. 

41

Mr. LUNGREN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Many of us have been involved in this effort on trying to deal 

with gangs for a long time, and Ms. Fernandez’s suggestion that 

it needs to be an all-encompassing approach is absolutely true. I 

had a gang prevention task force where we brought people from all 

disciplines together to try and figure out what it was, and we came 

up, as many people have, with tougher penalties, but we also came 

up with an effort to give young people who would otherwise be attracted to gangs alternatives. I mean I read these analyses of what 

gangs are all about and from the National Alliance of Gang Investigators Association. There seems to be a consistency or consensus 

on the fact that in many cases, gangs take the place of other authority figures, particularly family and adults. These kids sometimes get into these gangs because they’re looking for that which 

they won’t find anywhere else—discipline in a very strange way, 

reinforcement in a very strange way. And we have been trying to 

deal with that. 

That is primarily a local and State responsibility. There’s no 

doubt about it. We have more cops on the local and State level than 

we’ll ever have on the Federal level. 

But to exacerbate that problem with illegal alien gang members 

is obviously to make it just far far worse, and it is a question that 

I’ve often thought of. We spend so much time setting up cops programs where we try and take credit for getting police officers on 

the street; and then we don’t fund our border patrol, and we don’t 

do internal enforcement. 

So, Mr. Garcia, I would like to ask you if you could give me an 

idea why we haven’t enforced employer sanctions? I was the Republican floor manager of the Simpson-Mazzoli bill in 1987. We 

thought that employer sanctions would be half of the balance that 

they would allow us to have that hook into the attraction, or the 

magnet, that draws most people here. Most people don’t come here 

for welfare benefits. They come here to find a job—jobs that Americans have not or will not take. 

So we thought employer sanctions would be a way of doing it. 

And yet—I’m not trying to find fault with this Administration because it’s been Democrat and Republican administrations, Democrat and Republican Congresses that haven’t done it, but I just 

wonder, from your standpoint as a former prosecutor and your 

standpoint as the Assistant Secretary of Immigration and Customs 

Enforcement, whether you can give me some insight into that? 

Mr. GARCIA. Thank you, Congressman. I’ll try. Certainly we do 

employer sanctions, and certainly it’s a problem, and you’re absolutely right in the expression of your frustration and also in the expression of it as the magnet or an attraction for people coming into 

the United States. And certainly it’s somewhat a resource issue, as 

you point out. We have to use our resources as effectively as possible, whether it’s public safety and gangs and predators or whether it’s employer sanctions. So what do we do? We go after a number 

of employers on different levels, either large employers where we’ll 

have the greatest impact, and there are a number of cases recently 

lumped under the Wal-Mart heading which actually involved WalMart in a civil settlement and contractors for Wal-Mart in a criminal settlement with the Government, as a case leading to a proVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:11 Jun 21, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00045 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 G:\WORK\IMMIG\041305\20528.000 HJUD2 PsN: 20528
42

gram that will hopefully get people to voluntarily comply with the 

employment regulations. 

We look at critical industries. There’s been a number of cases recently that have gotten attention by ICE under the umbrella of Operation Tarmac. So you’re looking at not only airports and people 

with access badges who are employed by those airports, but military facilities, defense contractors, ports where people, illegal aliens 

without documentation are again getting access to very sensitive 

facilities, and that has become a priority. We’re looking at abusive 

employers, people who hold their illegal employees, illegal alien 

employees in conditions that would be equivalent to bondage or 

slavery, so we prioritize our efforts in that area. 

So if you’re looking at resources and the greatest effect that you 

can get from the resources you have in any given program, whether 

that’s drug enforcement or employee sanctions enforcement, that’s 

where we have our resources. Under the President’s ’06 budget— and I don’t have the figure, I apologize, offhand here—but there is 

a requested enhancement before this Congress for increased funding for employer sanction investigations, which I think is very important, and hopefully by combining those additional resources as 

requested with our prioritization and again some compliance programs, we can have a greater impact than we have had. 

Mr. LUNGREN. Thank you. Could you tell me how many arrests 

were made last year on employer sanctions? 

Mr. GARCIA. I’m sorry. I don’t know the number. 

Mr. LUNGREN. Would you—could you give me an idea? Would it 

be more than 1,000? 

Mr. GARCIA. Honestly, Congressman, I don’t want to guess, but 

I can certainly have our staff give your staff the number. 

Mr. LUNGREN. Right. I mean I understand you are doing things, 

but in terms of what we anticipated would be the case when we 

passed the bill in 1987, we’re not doing anything. I’m not directing 

that at you. I’m directing that at all of us. I happen to believe in 

the President’s idea that we ought to have a guest worker program 

because I think once we have a real workable guest worker program, we, the United States determines who comes here and under 

what circumstances and what jobs. Then we would actually have 

no excuse for not enforcing employer sanctions, and I think you’ll 

get the kind of support for that which is necessary. 

Back in ’87, we were talking about it being largely a California 

problem or a Southwest problem. Illegal immigration is a problem 

all over the United States. Gangs now you’re experiencing in the 

Shenandoah Valley. And I don’t wish that on anybody. But if you 

look at the numbers you have versus the numbers we’ve been experiencing in other parts of the country for some time, I hope that’s 

not my way of saying ‘‘you ain’t seen nothing yet.’’ I hope it’s my 

way of saying we’ve had some real problems. Maybe we can get 

support from other parts of the country for the problem that we’ve 

got, in terms of funding that is necessary. It’s a multi-faceted problem that needs a multi-faceted approach. But part of that, it seems 

to me, is to try and get rid of this exacerbating problem, which is 

illegal alien gang members. We have enough problems with homegrown gang members. We don’t need to add to it, and that is a true 

Federal responsibility. 

43

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. I thank the gentleman. 

The question period now over, I want to thank the members of 

the panel for your input——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Yes? I recognize the gentlelady from——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Would you please? Just if they can answer 

this yes or no, I ask the Chairman to indulge me 1 minute, ask 

unanimous consent for 1 minute. 

Mr. Garcia, in the MS-13, have you in the course of—I’m not 

sure if there’s any firsthand knowledge, but any of the MS-13 engage in any terrorist activity? 

Mr. GARCIA. Congresswoman, great question. We have seen reporting, I think some Boston reporting linking MS-13 and al Qaeda 

specifically. I have not seen that. I will tell you though that any 

organized criminal enterprise that’s exploiting our border, as MS13 is, to bring in contraband, to bring in illegal aliens, certainly is 

a national security risk, profit-driven, for the right amount of 

money could bring in terrorists, could bring in components of weapons of mass destruction. We have to accept that risk and address 

it. But I have not seen a specific link between that gang or other 

gangs and terrorist organizations. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And you’re aware that the MS-13, in addition 

to the hardened criminals that exist, recruits at the level of 13-, 14-

, 15-year-olds? 

Mr. GARCIA. I’m not an expert on their recruitment. I would accept that representation from people who are familiar with gangs, 

but I’m not familiar with what age limit they begin targeting recruits. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Ms. Fernandez, just quickly, what would you 

do with legislation——

Mr. HOSTETTLER. If the gentlelady will yield, we’re really not 

going to be able to do a second round of questioning. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Let me have her do that in writing then. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Yes, please. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Would you please respond to potential legislation that would add a deportation provision to anyone who is a 

member of a gang, that if they were here, that their membership 

would equate to an automatic deportation? 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. I want to thank the panel, the witnesses for 

your presence here today and your very valuable contribution to 

this discussion. 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And I’ve got a submission. Ask——

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Unanimous consent? 

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Yeah, ask unanimous consent to put in the 

letter from the City of Houston dated April 14, Anti-Gang Task 

Force. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. Without objection. 

Mr. HOSTETTLER. The business before the Subcommittee being 

complete, we are adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 6:23 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 

(45)

A P P E N D I X 

MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING RECORD

PREPARED STATEMENT OF CONGRESSWOMAN SHEILA JACKSON LEE

The subject of this hearing is, ‘‘Immigration and the Alien Gang Epidemic: Problems and Solutions.’’ According to the Department of Justice, we currently have 

more than 25,000 gangs in the United States. The most recent National Youth Gang 

Survey indicates that there are more than 750,000 gang members. Some of these 

gangs resemble organized crime syndicates. They commit gun violence, gun trafficking, drug trafficking, and other serious crimes. 

The gang we will hear the most about at this hearing is the Mara Salvatrucha, 

or MS-13 organization. Composed mainly of Salvadorans and other Central Americans, this gang has an estimated 8,000 to 10,000 members in the United States. 

MS-13 was established in Los Angeles in the 1980s by Salvadorans fleeing from a 

civil war. When they came to Los Angeles, Mexican gangs preyed on them. Their 

response was to band together in a mara, or posse, composed of salvatruchas, which 

means street-tough Salvadorans. 

According to the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the 

need to respond to the proliferation of MS-13 gangs has become a public safety priority. In January of 2005, ICE launched Operation Community Shield. The goal of 

this operation is to dismantle the MS-13 organization by targeting its members, financial assets, and operations. To do this, ICE will bring to bear all of its law enforcement and investigative powers, including criminal prosecutions, immigration 

authorities, financial investigations, and asset seizures. 

ICE will work with partners in the federal law enforcement community, including 

U.S. Attorneys’ offices; the FBI; the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA); and 

the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). ICE also will work 

with foreign governments to identify known gang members. ICE agents have arrested more than 135 MS-13 gang members nationwide. 

The gang problem is being addressed at the local level too. In 1997, the Fairfax 

police department made youth gang crime a priority and established a gang investigations unit. In 2003, funding from the U.S. Congress enabled the creation of the 

Northern Virginia Gang Task Force. The Task Force works closely with the FBI, 

ATF, and ICE. 

It is important to emphasize that Northern Virginia does not limit its efforts to 

law enforcement activities. The Task Force also does public education and awareness presentations; provides gang activity awareness training to school resource officers and Fairfax County public school personnel; and has established diversion programs such as GREAT (Gang Resistance Education and Training) and youth mentoring programs. 

I am pleased to say that we have a good gang intervention program in Houston 

too. In response to the rise in gang-related crime in the early 1990’s, Houston’s mayor established an Anti-Gang Office and Gang Task Force. The office’s mission 

is to develop a comprehensive mechanism to reduce gang-related violence and crime. 

To meet this goal, the Anti-Gang Office and Gang Task Force has established prevention, intervention, and suppression program partnerships with law enforcement, 

criminal justice agencies, schools, youth service providers, and the public. It coordinates citywide anti-gang efforts, including the gathering and sharing of information 

on gang intervention and prevention activities related to gang violence. 

Our witness today is Mai Fernandez, the Chief Operating Officer of the Latin 

American Youth Center (LAYC). The LAYC family of organizations includes two 

youth centers in Washington, D.C. and one about to open in Langley Park, Maryland; three public charter schools; an Art & Media House; transitional housing; and 

two social enterprises—all with a shared commitment to helping youth become successful and happy young adults who have the skills they need to succeed educationVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:11 Jun 21, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00049 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6621 G:\WORK\IMMIG\041305\20528.000 HJUD2 PsN: 20528
46

ally, professionally, and personally. These services assist youth in breaking the cycle 

of crime and violence in their lives. 

Thank you.

LETTER FROM THE LATIN AMERICAN YOUTH CENTER SUBMITTTED BY THE HONORABLE

SHEILA JACKSON LEE


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LETTER FROM THE CITY OF HOUSTON SUBMITTED BY THE HONORABLE SHEILA JACKSON

LEE


COH1.eps
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Æ


COH2.eps