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21–991 2017

S. HRG. 114–502 

PENDING LEGISLATION 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

S. 211 S. 2627 

S. 630 S. 2805 

S. 1007 S. 2807 

S. 1623 S. 2923 

S. 1662 S. 2954 

S. 1690 S. 3020 

S. 1696 S. 3027 

S. 1824 S. 3028 

S. 2087 H.R. 3004/S. 2839 

S. 2412 H.R. 3036 

S. 2548 H.R. 3620 

H.R. 4119 

JUNE 15, 2016 

( 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES 

LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman 

JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming 

JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho 

MIKE LEE, Utah 

JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana 

CORY GARDNER, Colorado 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

AL FRANKEN, Minnesota 

JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia 

MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico 

MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii 

ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine 

ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS

BILL CASSIDY, Chairman 

ROB PORTMAN 

JOHN BARRASSO 

LAMAR ALEXANDER 

MIKE LEE 

JOHN HOEVEN 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO 

MARTIN HEINRICH 

RON WYDEN 

BERNARD SANDERS 

DEBBIE STABENOW 

ANGUS S. KING, JR. 

ELIZABETH WARREN 

COLIN HAYES, Staff Director 

PATRICK J. MCCORMICK III, Chief Counsel 

MICHELLE LANE, Professional Staff Member 

ANGELA BECKER-DIPPMANN, Democratic Staff Director 

SAM E. FOWLER, Democratic Chief Counsel 

DAVID BROOKS, Democratic General Counsel 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Cassidy, Hon. Bill, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Louisiana ..................................................................................................................... 1 

Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator 

from New Mexico .................................................................................................. 2 

Blunt, Hon. Roy, a U.S. Senator from Missouri .................................................... 3 

Kaine, Hon. Tim, a U.S. Senator from Virginia .................................................... 4 

King, Jr., Hon. Angus S., a U.S. Senator from Maine .......................................... 30 

Cantwell, Hon. Maria, a U.S. Senator from Washington ..................................... 31 

WITNESS 

Toothman, Dr. Stephanie, Associate Director, Cultural Resources, Partnerships and Science, National Park Service, U.S. Department of the Interior .. 32 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED 

9/11 Memorial: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 134 

9/11 Parents & Families of Firefighters and WTC Victims: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 138 

9/11 Tribute Center: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 139 

Blunt, Hon. Roy: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 3 

Boxer, Hon. Barbara: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 140 

Burke, Michael: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 142 

Cain, Rosemary: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 144 

Cantwell, Hon. Maria: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 31 

Cassidy, Hon. Bill: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 1 

‘‘Cooperative Federalism in Biscayne National Park’’ Abstract by Ryan 

B. Stoa ........................................................................................................... 99 

Families of Flight 93: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 145 

Franken, Hon. Al: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 147 

Heinrich, Hon. Martin: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 2 

Kaine, Hon. Tim: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 4 

Jamestown 400th Commemoration Commission Act of 2000 ....................... 7 

Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009 Excerpt (contains the 

St. Augustine Commission Act) ................................................................... 14 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 29 

King, Jr., Hon. Angus S.: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 30 

Looking for Lincoln Coalition: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 148 

Page

IV 

McCaffrey, LT/FDNY (Ret) James: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 149 

McNulty, Tim: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 151 

Meehan, III, Thomas: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 153 

Muckleshoot Tribal Council: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 157 

National Association of Police Organizations, Inc.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 159 

National Fraternal Order of Police: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 160 

Nee, Nancy: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 161 

Olympic Park Associates: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 162 

Pentagon Memorial Fund: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 164 

Reilly, Patricia: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 166 

Riches, Deputy Chief Jim, FDNY (Ret): 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 167 

Sergeants Benevolent Association: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 168 

(The) Tulalip Tribes: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 169 

Tule Lake Committee: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 171 

Toothman, Dr. Stephanie: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 32 

Written Testimony ............................................................................................ 35 

Responses to Questions for the Record ........................................................... 91 

Voices of September 11th, et al.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 173 

Winuk, Jay: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 177 

The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can be found on the 

committee’s website at: http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/hearings-and-businessmeetings?ID=1C31F3F6-13D2-4377-A253-D264FA94BB16 

(1) 

PENDING LEGISLATION 

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 15, 2016 

U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS, COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES, Washington, DC. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:35 p.m. in Room 

SD–366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Bill Cassidy, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BILL CASSIDY, U.S. SENATOR 

FROM LOUISIANA 

Senator CASSIDY [presiding]. The Subcommittee will come to 

order. 

The 23 bills we are examining this afternoon cover a wide range 

of issues relating to the federal land administered by the Department of the Interior, primarily by the National Park Service. 

Today we will hear about legislation that includes the establishment of national heritage areas, new historical sites, boundary adjustments, grounds related to memorials and related issues. 

I would like to take a moment to discuss S. 2807, the Preserving 

Public Access to Public Waters Act, which I introduced. In the Gulf 

of Mexico, commercial and recreational fishing represent a large 

part of the economy. Spending on recreational fishing, including 

the multiplier effects, generated about $70.3 billion in economic 

output in 2011 alone. One year, $70.3 billion. 

According to NOAA in 2014, across all economic sectors of the 

marine economy, 21 million full and part-time jobs were filled in 

the Gulf states because commercial and recreational fishing are so 

important to our economy and jobs in the Gulf. It is vitally important that we retain access to all public waters. 

In the Biscayne Bay National Park a general management plan 

took over 15 years to update. Once finally released last June, local 

communities and anglers were distraught to find that the National 

Park Service chose to include a 10,502 acre reserve zone which severely limits access to commercial and recreational fishermen. 

According to NOAA, about 23 million fishing trips are taken each 

year in the Gulf of Mexico. The same report showed that in 2014 

the economic impact of recreational fishing in the Gulf of Mexico 

region exceeded $12 billion in that year alone. This is a substantial 

portion of the regional GDP. 

When access is restricted, we are not just impacting sportsmen 

and women enjoying a day at the sea. We are talking about moms 

and dads who want to take their kids fishing one day out of the 

2 

year; commercial fishermen, who make a living on the Gulf, supplying restaurants and grocery stores; associated businesses like 

bait shops, charter boats and motels along the Gulf that are also 

impacted by closures. Restricted access has real life consequences 

to the enjoyment of the outdoors by American families and to the 

economy of our region. 

Although the park is part of the federal agency, fishing and other 

harvesting activities are largely governed by state law. This management arrangement is grandfathered under the state’s Enabling 

Law and the State of Florida opposes the Park Service’s plan to implement the marine zone. 

That is why I introduced legislation which would prevent the 

Park Service from moving forward with restricting recreational or 

commercial fishing access in state or territory waters controlled by 

the Park Service without first coordinating and getting approval of 

the state. 

I look forward to discussing S. 2807 and a number of other bills 

today. Many on our list have been passed in the House of Representatives. A few have been heard before in the Subcommittee 

and others have been considered in previous Congresses. We have 

several bills that include potential national heritage areas. Over 

more than 30 years Congress established 49 national heritage 

areas, and the FY’16 appropriation for these areas was nearly $20 

million. 

As Congressional interest in these areas grow, it is important 

that we continue to ensure proper oversight is conducted over existing and potential heritage areas. While a few of these bills may 

spark conversation, I am hoping we can move through the list fairly quickly. 

The purpose of this hearing is to consider the Administration’s 

views on these bills and allow Committee members an opportunity 

to ask questions. We will also include written statements that have 

been sent to the Subcommittee in the official hearing record. Because of the large number of bills on today’s agenda, I will not read 

through the list. 

We have one witness today, Dr. Stephanie Toothman, Associate 

Director of Cultural Resources, Partnerships and Science for the 

National Park Service. I want to thank Dr. Toothman for being 

here. 

Now let me turn to the Ranking Member, Senator Heinrich, for 

his remarks. 

STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

NEW MEXICO 

Senator HEINRICH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

We have 23 bills on our agenda today which, I think, demonstrates how much all of our constituents care about the National 

Parks in their communities. 

In New Mexico we have 15 Park Service units, and they represent some of the most stunning landscapes and important cultural and historical places in our nation. I am proud to say that 

the President will be visiting one of those, Carlsbad Caverns National Park, later this week. 

3 

I look forward to hearing about these new proposals today. I am 

particularly pleased to see the Ocmulgee re-designation and expansion and the accompanying special resource study of the Ocmulgee 

River Corridor which includes the Bond Swamp National Wildlife 

Refuge and two state wildlife management areas. 

I do have some concerns about S. 2807 which would give states 

veto authority over management of recreational and commercial 

fishing in marine national parks. I understand that this is intended 

to address the recently finalized marine reserve zone in Biscayne 

National Park in Florida and I certainly understand the concerns 

of many in Florida and the region about reduced access for anglers 

in the park, but I am concerned about the precedent this bill would 

set for giving states authority over public lands managed by the 

Federal Government for all Americans. 

I understand that the Florida Senators are working with the 

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and recreational fishing groups on an alternative approach to resolving the 

conflict at Biscayne without getting into the broader and more controversial issue of state management of federal public lands and 

waters. I look forward to working with the Chairman and the Florida delegation to find a solution that works for all parties involved. 

I also want to thank Dr. Toothman for being here today to talk 

about these bills, and I look forward to hearing her testimony. 

Senator CASSIDY. Thank you, Senator Heinrich. 

Would you care to make a comment, Senator King? 

Senator KING. My only comment was I have myself visited Carlsbad Caverns. I believe the bravest person in the United States was 

that 16-year-old boy who walked down into that hole about 100 

years ago and discovered it. What an extraordinary place, wonderful place in your state. Thank you. 

Senator HEINRICH. If you want to see the pictures from that, 

there is a book called ‘‘Governor’s Travels’’ floating out there somewhere. [Laughter.] 

Featuring our colleague. 

Senator CASSIDY. Senators Blunt and Kaine are here. Thank you. 

Welcome to the Committee. 

Senator Blunt, would you care to comment upon a bill you are 

interested in? 

STATEMENT OF HON. ROY BLUNT, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

MISSOURI 

Senator BLUNT. Well, I would, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for letting me come. I am also co-sponsoring Senator Kaine’s bill, and I 

am glad to be here with him as he talks about that bill as well. 

This proposal would designate a determined area of property in 

Ste. Genevieve, Missouri as the Ste. Genevieve National Historic 

Park. 

Ste. Genevieve was founded in 1750 by French Canadian settlers. 

St. Louis, just north of Ste. Genevieve, was founded about the same 

time by French settlers from New Orleans, Mr. Chairman. I was 

a little surprised myself to find out that the Ste. Genevieve French 

settlers came from Canada and settled there. 

The community today has about 4,000 residents. It is located 60 

miles south of St. Louis. It is one of the oldest national historic 

4 

landmark districts in the country, designated in 1960, to recognize 

the unique concentration of vertical log architecture. The logs were 

up and down, and then in substantial houses, plastered over the 

outside front. 

I am not sure if there is anything, Senator Cassidy, in New Orleans that mimics that architecture at all, but it is very unique and 

some of these houses date back to at least 1790. I think the city’s 

architecture helps paint a rich historical narrative. 

One example would be in an area on South Main Street, a picture of how that area developed even into the 1840s where the last 

French Commandant of the town, Jean Baptiste Valle, lived and 

died in the 1840s. He had succeeded his brother Francois Valle, the 

second, who died before the transfer of power to the United States 

in 1804 and briefly to the Spanish before that. But after this transfer of control, Valle successfully transitioned to become a business 

leader in Ste. Genevieve and had a lasting impact on the economy 

and culture of Ste. Genevieve. 

It is because of this that his house, the Jean Baptiste Valle 

house, located in this cluster of historic properties on South Main 

Street, has been recognized as one of the premier historical properties in Ste. Genevieve and, I think, in the country. 

There are countless other historical properties in Ste. Genevieve. 

Legislation was passed in 2006 to begin a special resource study of 

the site, and the first public meeting occurred in 2009 to collect 

input. The draft study finally came out in 2015. In May the final 

study found that Ste. Genevieve is nationally significant, eligible 

for addition as a new unit of the Park Service and it recommends 

a number of properties be part of that. 

Many of us here have dealt with the Park Service over the years. 

This is one of the rare occasions when property proposed for inclusion in the National Park Service is received positively by the Park 

Service. They would like this to be transferred from the state to the 

Park Service. I would like to see that happen as well. 

Senator McCaskill and I have co-sponsored this legislation and 

hope it is favorably viewed by your Committee. 

Senator CASSIDY. Thank you. 

Senator Kaine. 

STATEMENT OF HON. TIM KAINE, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

VIRGINIA 

Senator KAINE. Thank you, Mr. Chair and to Senators Heinrich 

and King, I appreciate this opportunity. 

I am here on S. 2548, the 400 years of African-American History 

Commission Act. I am very excited to be here, and I am very happy 

that Senator Blunt and others are co-sponsoring. 

1619 marks a very important year in this country, and 2019 is 

the 400th anniversary. In 1619 the phrase in the record books was 

‘‘20 and odd’’ in reference to the Africans who had been taken off 

a Portuguese slave ship by the English and brought ashore at Point 

Comfort, Virginia which is now Hampton, Virginia. The bringing of 

these 20 slaves to Virginia began the diaspora of Africans to the 

United States, and that population had swelled to nearly four million slaves by the Civil War. 

5 

The Act before you follows a pattern and it is to have a commission that would plan educational materials and events to commemorate African contributions to our nation. The Congress passed 

a similar Commission Act to honor the English contributions to our 

society in connection with the Jamestown 400th commemoration in 

2007. Congress also passed a similar commission, enacted a similar 

commission to honor the Hispanic contributions to our nation in 

connection with the 450th anniversary of the settlement of St. Augustine in 1565 which we just celebrated last year. 

Now this is a history that is painful, that is tragic, that is triumphant. It is as complicated as the American story. In the 400 years 

that Africans have been in this organized way, beginning with the 

slave trade in the English colonies in the United States, I have 

analogized it to this, you can divide 400 years into eight half centuries. 

For five of the half centuries Africans were here and held a slight 

five-eighths of our history. For two-eighths of our history, African 

slavery was ended at the end of the Civil War. Africans were here 

but were in a legal, second-class status where they could be completely separated in terms of public life, education, etcetera and 

that was tolerated. It has only been in the last one-eighth of our 

history of this 400 years that African-Americans have been accorded legal equality, although we know that many social disparities remain. 

But the amazing thing about that is with only one-eighth of this 

400 years, a time period where African-Americans have been treated as legally equal, the contributions of Africans, people of African 

descent, to our life, business, academics, law, military, spirituality, 

culture, diplomacy, government, medicine, social justice and innovation have been remarkable. 

In the same way that we enacted a commission to say that the 

English roots of this country matter and are worthy of commemoration and celebration, in the same way that we enacted a commission to say that the Hispanic roots of this country matter and are 

worthy of commemoration, I hope it would be the will of this body 

to say the contributions of Africans to who we are as a nation matter. It would be impossible to imagine who we would be as a nation 

were it not for those contributions. 

My only regret is I wish I had started it sooner. The Jamestown 

commemorative effort that Congress enacted started seven years 

before 2007, and the recognition of St. Augustine commission was 

about seven or eight years before 2015. In fact, there is a UC on 

the Floor today to look at a 250th anniversary of the founding of 

the U.S. in 1776, and we are doing it ten years in advance of 2026. 

So I am mindful of the time. It is 2016. In order to appropriately 

plan educational events and educational materials, I would hope 

that the body could act. 

And I should stress this is a bipartisan bill in both houses. It has 

been worked on in tandem with many organizations including the 

NAACP and, importantly, the Smithsonian Museum of AfricanAmerican history which is slated to open within the next year here 

in the capital. 

I am very, very happy to have Senator Blunt and others as cosponsors, and I hope it would be the will of the Committee to act 

6 

on this and hopefully we could then appropriately act on it on the 

Floor as well. 

Mr. Chair, if I could, I would love to introduce both the Jamestown Commission and the St. Augustine Commission acts into the 

record as an example of previous practice in the body with respect 

to these commissions. 

Senator CASSIDY. Without objection. 

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Senator CASSIDY. All member’s statements will be added to the 

hearing record. 

[The written statement of Senator Kaine follows:] 

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Senator CASSIDY. It is now time to hear from our witness. 

Senator HEINRICH. Mr. Chair, before Senator Blunt leaves I just 

want to mention that he knows my parents are constituents of his 

and I had the pleasure of visiting Ste. Genevieve with them when 

I was younger. It is truly a unique historical location, and I very 

much look forward to seeing the fruits of his efforts because it is 

a special piece of our history in architecture in this country. 

Senator KING. Mr. Chairman, I also have a bill in this package. 

I don’t know whether you want me to present it now or? 

Senator CASSIDY. You can present now, if you would like, Senator 

King. 

STATEMENT OF HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR., U.S. SENATOR FROM 

MAINE 

Senator KING. My bill is S. 3027, and it involves Acadia National 

Park in Maine. 

The history is Acadia National Park was created virtually at the 

beginning of the National Park System under a series of laws, I 

think, in 1919 and then another in 1929. 

There was concern in the community, some of the communities 

surrounding the park, about what the boundary of the park was, 

how it was going to grow, whether it was going to grow in ways 

that the communities found amicable to their interests. 

So in 1986 two of my most illustrious predecessors, Bill Cohen 

and George Mitchell, collaborated on a statute that was passed to 

establish the permanent boundary of Acadia National Park and it 

established a boundary on a map and that was the boundary. 

A couple of years ago a very generous donation became available 

of about 1,400 acres to the Park Service, and the Park Service accepted that donation under the auspices of the 1929 Act. It is unclear, as we will hear in testimony, that the Park Service felt that 

they had the legal authority to do so. There are many people in 

Maine who do not think that they did. 

Although the communities are supportive of this donation, they 

are concerned about the precedent of this, and the lack of clarity 

of whether this donation was fully appropriate under the 1986 Act. 

So my bill does a couple of things. One, it clarifies the fact that 

this donation can be accepted and that this 1,441 acres is part of 

the park. Number two, it re-establishes Acadia Park Commission 

and makes clear who the people are. It also takes care of a little 

piece of the land from the park that has been conveyed to one of 

the towns under a restricted covenant in terms of its use for a 

school. So it cleans up some of these issues. 

We have worked with various parties to try to get this right, but 

we want to continue to work with the Park Service. They have 

some questions about it, some questions about the specific language. But again, everybody in the region, I say everybody, certainly the vast majority, have indicated support for this conveyance 

that was accepted by the Park Service. But we also want to be consistent with this 1986 Act and have the boundary absolutely clear 

and be sure what the processes are going forward. So that is the 

nature of this bill. 

Senator CASSIDY. Senator Cantwell, would you like to comment 

on your legislation? 

31 

STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

WASHINGTON 

Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so 

much. I thank you for holding this hearing and for including three 

bills that concern the State of Washington. 

Two of the bills would establish national heritage areas in our 

state: S. 1623, the Maritime Washington National Heritage Area 

which includes most of the coastal shoreline of the state, and S. 

1690, the Mountains to Sound Greenway National Heritage Area 

including lands in Kittitas and King Counties extending from the 

Cascades to Puget Sound. 

The Mountains to Sound Greenway Trust has been working for 

many years with local communities and businesses and interested 

individuals to promote and conserve the basic scenic beauty of the 

Greenway and to better educate the public about the deep heritage 

and numerous opportunities for outdoor recreation. I do not need 

to go into the details, but we believe in an outdoor recreation economy in the State of Washington and it has provided great dividends, so we think enhancing some of those opportunities also increases that economic activity. 

Similarly, the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation has 

helped to develop the Maritime Washington National Heritage 

Area proposal that will tell the story of the culturally diverse maritime heritage of our state. 

I see my dear colleague from Maine who has told me he has been 

to places like Port Townsend so he understands what I am talking 

about when he talks about the maritime heritage of our area. 

Our state’s many outdoor recreational opportunities and spectacular natural resources provide quality of living, attract businesses 

and help them with the outdoor economy, and are major economic 

contributors. In our state outdoor recreation-related consumer 

spending generates $22 billion a year, more than $7 billion in 

wages and salaries and 227,000 direct jobs. 

Mr. Chairman, the Committee considering these proposals during the previous Congress ordered them to be favorably reported, 

and I hope that we can move again the same legislation the same 

way. 

The third bill I would like to briefly discuss, S. 3028, would rename the Olympic Wilderness in Olympic National Park as the 

Dan J. Evans Wilderness in honor of former Washington Senator 

and Governor, Dan Evans. 

Dan Evans served in the Senate beginning in 1983 fulfilling the 

term following the death of Senator Scoop Jackson, former Chair 

of this Committee, and he remained here until his retirement—but 

he was most popular in our state for being a three-term governor. 

So during his time in the Senate, Evans was a leader in the passage of two major wilderness bills in our state that together protected 2.5 million acres of wilderness, and he was a lead sponsor 

of the Washington Park Wilderness Act of 1988 which designated 

more than 1.5 million acres of wilderness including 876,000 acres 

of wilderness in the Olympic National Park, which would be renamed by this bill. 

The seven members of the Washington Congressional delegation 

who were in office when the Olympic Wilderness bill was passed 

32 

have sent letters expressing their strong support for this designation. The designation of the Daniel J. Evans Wilderness is a fitting 

tribute to a man who has done so much in so many areas but has 

also done so much to make sure that we have protection of our 

state’s premier wilderness areas. 

I am pleased to join my colleague, Senator Murray, who has cosponsored all three of these bills, and I hope that we will report 

them out of the Committee favorably. 

Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CASSIDY. All member statements will be added to the 

hearing record. 

It is now time to hear from our witness, Dr. Toothman. Dr. 

Toothman is the Associate Director for Cultural Resources, Partnerships and Science for the National Park Service. 

Dr. Toothman, I understand that you also coordinated with the 

BLM where necessary on some of these bills. Thank you for doing 

so. 

At the end of the testimony we will begin questions and your full 

written testimony will be made part of the official hearing record. 

Dr. Toothman, please proceed. 

STATEMENT OF DR. STEPHANIE TOOTHMAN, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, CULTURAL RESOURCES, PARTNERSHIPS AND 

SCIENCE, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 

THE INTERIOR 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to present the Department of the Interior’s views on 23 bills on today’s agenda. I 

would like to submit our full statements on each of these bills for 

the record and summarize the Department’s views. 

Senator CASSIDY. Without objection. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. The Department supports the following bills: 

S. 2839 and H.R. 3004 which would extend the authorization for 

the Gullah/Geechee Cultural Heritage Corridor Commission; 

H.R. 3620 which would authorize a permanent program for local 

commercial vehicles using a park road in Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area; 

H.R. 4119 which would authorize a land exchange at Gulf Islands National Seashore; 

S. 211 which would establish the Susquehanna Gateway National Heritage Area; 

S. 630 which would establish the Sacramento/San Joaquin Delta 

National Heritage Area; 

S. 1007 which would reflect in law the new name of a privately 

held building within Dayton Aviation Heritage National Historical 

Park; 

S. 1623 which would establish the Maritime Washington National Heritage Area; 

S. 1690 which would establish the Mountains to Sound Greenway National Heritage Area; 

S. 1696 and H.R. 482 which would re-designate the Ocmulgee, 

gee, I think it’s Ocmulgee, National Monument, adjust the park’s 

boundary and authorize the study of additional resources in the vicinity of the park; 

33 

S. 1824 which would authorize a National Heritage Area study 

for the Finger Lakes region; 

S. 2087 which would modify the boundary of Fort Scott National 

Historical Site; 

S. 2412 which would establish the Tule Lake National Historic 

Site as a stand alone unit of the National Park Service; 

S. 2548 which would establish a commission on 400 years of African-American history; 

S. 2627 which would authorize a boundary adjustment for Mojave National Preserve; 

S. 2805 which would modify the boundaries of Voyageurs National Park; 

S. 2954 which would establish Ste. Genevieve National Historical 

Site; 

S. 3020 which would adjust the boundary of Florissant Fossil 

Beds National Monument; and 

S. 3028 which would designate Olympic Wilderness as the Daniel 

J. Evans Wilderness. 

The reasons for the support of these bills are explained in our 

full statements. 

For several of the bills we are requesting amendments, and we 

would be happy to work with the Committee on drafting them. 

The Department would support, if amended, S. 3027 which would 

modify the boundary of Acadia National Park. We would recommend language confirming the boundary includes Schoodic Peninsula addition, providing for minor boundary adjustment authority and adding conditions to deed restrictions to the deed restriction release. 

The Department cannot support, unless amended, S. 2923 which 

would re-designate Saint-Gaudens National Historic Site as the 

Saint-Gaudens National Park for the Arts. The National Park 

Service is trying to avoid the further proliferation of non-standard 

designations in order to bring more consistency to national park 

names. We could, however, support re-designating the site as a national historical park. 

The Department recommends that the Committee defer action on 

S. 1662 which adds communities to the Lincoln National Heritage 

Area until the National Park Service can determine the appropriateness of the proposed expansion. 

The Department strongly opposes S. 2807 which would require 

state approval before the National Park Service restricts access for 

recreational and commercial fishing. This bill is inconsistent with 

the National Park Service mandate under our Organic Act to protect natural resources. In addition, we believe that existing policies 

calling for cooperation and consultation between the Park Service 

and states on management activities related to fish and wildlife resources already provides a strong, collaborative and effective framework for managing those resources. 

The Department strongly opposes H.R. 3036 which would designate the National September 11th Memorial in New York City as 

a National Memorial. This bill authorizes federal funding for the 

memorial but no federal role in administering, interpreting or preserving the resources of the memorial. 

34 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. I would be pleased 

to answer any questions you may have. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Toothman follows:] 

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Senator CASSIDY. Thank you, Dr. Toothman, for your testimony. 

In the time remaining we will begin with questions. 

In your testimony as regards S. 2807 you, I think, said you 

strongly oppose and you cited the Organic Act which has, I gather, 

two central pillars to conserve and to enjoy. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Absolutely. 

Senator CASSIDY. The Park Service has a mission to preserve 

places in their natural environment. How does the Park Service 

balance the decision to make seasonal closures or use bag and size 

limits for fishing with marine reserve zones? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. I’m not sure I’m fully qualified to respond to 

that. I’d be glad to get you a more complete answer from our natural resources personnel, but we do try to balance in establishing 

those zones based on science and consultation with the many constituencies that are interested in the interest of making sure that 

those resources are available for the long run. 

Senator CASSIDY. Inherent in that is that what might apply to 

one area would not necessarily apply to another, the science would 

change? It would be different? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. That’s true and that’s one of our concerns with 

this bill in that it has potential application to more than 80 different coastal parks, and the logistics of collaborating with all of 

those states already are substantial. 

And so, we believe that in addition to maintaining the integrity 

of our responsibilities under the Organic Act that that tremendous 

variety would create some real issues in terms of being able to 

adopt to all of them. But we do tend—we do have a strong policy 

that encourages collaboration and consultation with our state and 

local partners. 

Senator CASSIDY. I can see it being consultation and collaboration, but ultimately if you say so, it happens as regards much for 

adding the state as an entity with which to deal should be minimized. 

Does the National Park Service, and you may or may not know 

this, look at fish aggregations solely within the park or does it 

evaluate the health of a population based upon the larger region 

which may expand beyond a particular park? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Our primary responsibilities are within the park 

boundaries, but the science would mandate that we look in terms 

of the larger area and which might be influenced by those decisions. 

Senator CASSIDY. Now what is the role the state fish and wildlife 

agency plays in the analysis? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Well obviously, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say obviously. We look to our state partners to help support the science in 

terms of bringing the information that they have about the larger 

area in which they are managing, integrates with our responsibility. 

Senator CASSIDY. But I gather that the state said, listen, based 

upon our data there is no reason to have a marine reserve or restricted fishing. Nonetheless, if you felt otherwise you would rule 

otherwise, I gather that. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Our concerns with this bill is that ultimately we 

need to act in terms of our best judgement on what it takes to preVerDate Sep 11 2014 03:08 Jul 21, 2017 Jkt 021991 PO 00000 Frm 00087 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A991.XXX A991
84 

serve the resource. Again, taking into account the information we 

receive from our state partners. 

We do have experience in other resources. The one at Dry 

Tortugas is a good example in which we worked with numerous 

partners to set aside a reserve there. And the results have been 

very promising in terms of the increases in size, the number of the 

populations. 

Senator CASSIDY. Now you do have co-management arrangements in the Great Lakes, I gather, with state, tribal and federal 

agencies, and NOAA looks at the share to determine catch shares, 

etcetera, but there is a Great Lakes Fisheries Commission. It 

seems almost inherent in that that some of your authority is ceded 

to these non-federal partners if it is co-managed. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Sir, I’m not able to respond to that particular comanagement responsibility, but we would be glad to respond to it 

in writing as a follow up. 

Senator CASSIDY. It also seems as if the state wildlife and fisheries would feel differently than you and I gather also the stakeholders, the recreational and commercial fishermen in the area affected, disagree with you. These are folks with a vested interest in 

maintaining the productivity of the population of fish within these 

areas. 

Again, I am a little struck that if you ought to decide differently 

these stakeholders are effectively ruled out; that does seem a little 

preemptory. I do not have as much faith in the Federal Government to be as unbiased on these decisions as I would those who are 

local. That is just, kind of, my observation after 58 years of living. 

But anyway, without the cooperation of the state how would the 

National Park Service enforce the marine reserve? Is there anything contingent upon the state cooperating? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Each situation varies, but we certainly try to 

work very closely with the various enforcement officials in both 

state and local entities. But we also have our own enforcement capability. 

Senator CASSIDY. Thank you, I certainly went over. 

Let me stop and turn to my colleagues. There will be a second 

round. 

Senator Heinrich. 

Senator HEINRICH. Dr. Toothman, I understand that Congress 

authorized commissions to commemorate anniversaries of the arrival of English colonists at Jamestown and Spanish explorers in 

St. Augustine, similar to Senator Kaine’s proposal for a commission 

commemorating the arrival of the first African slaves at Point 

Comfort, Virginia and the following 400 years of African-American 

history. Was the Park Service involved in those previous commissions and what kinds of events and programs were implemented by 

those commissions? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. We have been involved in terms of a supporting 

role. And we—but I would have to get back to you in greater detail 

unless maybe? Yeah, we’ll have to get back to you. And I know we 

were involved in both St. Augustine and Jamestown. 

Senator HEINRICH. If you could get back to us. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. But we can get back to you. 

Senator HEINRICH. In writing. 

85 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Yes. 

Senator HEINRICH. Giving what that looked like in terms of 

structure, that would be helpful. 

[The materials had not been submitted at the time of publication. 

Once the committee receives them, they will be included in the 

committee files.] 

Senator HEINRICH. You also testified in support of H.R. 4119 

which authorizes a land exchange between the Park Service and 

the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 5699. That involves two small 

parcels. 

Normally when Congress authorizes a land exchange, language 

is included requiring that the values of the lands to be exchanged 

must be equal, with the value of the lands determined by appraisals, as you know. In this case the bill deems the values of the two 

parcels to be equal. Do you have any sense of what the actual market value of the two parcels to be exchanged are? I am just curious 

why the Park Service is not recommending the standard language 

requiring an equal value exchange and the use of an appraisal? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. I know we posed that question to our regional 

counterparts and the response that we received was that the two 

parcels are almost virtually adjacent. They’re definitely within the 

same framework in terms of evaluation. 

And so the—based on that information, based on the fact that in 

the exchange we will receive a half acre more than we will be 

transferring and that the VFW will be paying all of the costs for 

the transfer, that they came to the conclusion that it would be of 

roughly equal value. 

Senator HEINRICH. Okay. 

Lastly I wanted to ask a question regarding Biscayne Bay. 

How many similar situations are there where commercial fishing 

is actually allowed in a National Park unit? That is not something 

you typically associate with a park and its management and is 

sometimes a difficult thing to reconcile with the direction in the 

Organic Act. Is this analogous to other units in the Park Service 

management family? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. I was advised that a number of our coastal parks 

could be affected by this law but we would have to get back to you 

with specific parks that have that crossover. 

Senator HEINRICH. So you are not aware, off the top of your 

head? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. No. 

Senator HEINRICH. Of other units where there it is similarly? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Don Hellmann advises me that we have a long 

list, but I do not have that in front of me. 

Senator HEINRICH. And it—— 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Unless it’s in—is that in my book? 

If you could give me a minute? 

Senator HEINRICH. Sure. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. I’ll go back to that. This was a lot of paper here. 

Senator HEINRICH. I can give you a minute and 17 seconds. 

[Laughter.] 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Okay. 

86 

We have a list, a spreadsheet that we can share with you that 

covers most regions with coastal land that’s three pages long and 

we’ll provide that for the record. 

Senator HEINRICH. That would be helpful. 

In particular I am curious how many of those units also, if there 

is some sort of allowance for commercial fishing as opposed to recreational fishing? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. We’ll take that to the next step in terms of the 

spreadsheet and get you that information. 

[The materials had not been submitted at the time of publication. 

Once the committee receives them, they will be included in the 

committee files.] 

Senator HEINRICH. Finally, the primary species of concern with 

Biscayne Bay, is it red fish and grouper that is of concern or are 

there other species as well? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. I apologize again, this is outside of my area of 

expertise and I haven’t been provided with that, so we will have 

to get you that information as well. 

Senator HEINRICH. Thank you. 

Thank you very much. 

[The materials had not been submitted at the time of publication. 

Once the committee receives them, they will be included in the 

committee files.] 

Senator CASSIDY. Senator King. 

Senator KING. Thank you. 

First I want to thank you for your testimony on S. 3027. It seems 

to me that there are three central points. 

One is that the confirmation of the conveyance of the parcel of 

the Schoodic parcel may create unintended consequences given the 

different, that something had happened in between the development of the park, of the campground for example. Clearly we want 

to work on that so just to be sure there is no inadvertent legal 

issue created. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Thank you. 

Senator KING. Secondly, I understand the provision that you are 

suggesting that there be a, kind of, diminimus transfer authority. 

I certainly want to work with you on that, although relatively modest can mean a lot of things. I think we are really going to have 

to work on this because again, the fundamental intent of the 1986 

Act was this is the boundary. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Right. 

Senator KING. And to the extent, if we are going to discuss limitations, I do not want the Swiss to eat the cheese. I want to be sure 

that we are respecting the integrity of that Act. So clearly we want 

to discuss it, but I hope you will have your counsel talk about how 

it can be limited in such a way as to reassure us that it is not reopening a, kind of, open ended acquisition process. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Sir, many of our parks do have that. We can provide you with examples of what that looks like and what the 

boundaries are. 

Senator KING. Yes, it would be helpful for the language that you 

suggest and also examples of what we are talking about. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Yes. 

87 

Senator KING. If we are talking about a parking lot or a piece 

of abutting land or something, but if we’re talking, you know, 

again, relatively modest can be a lot of land. 

Finally, the question about the transfer to the Town of Tremont. 

Clearly we want to work with you on that. We are very comfortable 

about public ownership, recreational, educational, adversely impact 

part resources and values, again, as a, kind of, all-purpose term. 

We do not want that to the exception to eat up the rule. 

Clearly we look forward to working with you on this and hope 

that we can resolve it promptly. We would like to get this taken 

care of in this session of Congress. 

I appreciate your willingness to take this issue seriously and to 

help us to find solutions. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. And we look forward to working with you to 

make sure this is all straightened out and ready to go. 

Senator KING. Good, thank you. 

I have stayed in that campground, so I want it resolved too. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator CASSIDY. We will now go to a second round which may 

just be me. [Laughter.] 

Let’s talk about H.R. 3036. 

Staff has given me some material and I have your testimony so 

the comments and questions will be, kind of, an amalgamation of 

the two. 

I think it goes without saying that September 11th is very emotional for all of us, particularly for New Yorkers, but I would say 

also next most particularly, all Americans. I met with some of the 

folks who are principle in this and they mentioned the security 

costs associated with visits by Heads of State, the President and 

the Pope, etcetera, so I also understand that. 

In your testimony, however, you point out that this is a competitive grant program to give an unspecified amount each fiscal year. 

My staff says the CBO has estimated this could be as much as $25 

million a year, but that no other organization would be eligible except for the National September 11th Memorial Museum at the 

World Trade Center. Is that correct? This would be the only organization that could compete for a competitive grant? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. That’s our understanding, and it’s reaffirmed by 

a letter from our—one of the supporting groups for Flight 93, who 

also have taken a look at it and felt that only the 9/11 Memorial 

Group would be eligible. 

Senator CASSIDY. Okay, and it looks like an earmark then. I 

mean, I don’t know if you can comment on that, but if it’s—— 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. I can’t comment but—— 

Senator CASSIDY. Yes. It looks like, etcetera. 

Now I gather it is for operation and maintenance of sorts or at 

least a component of it. My staff has given me some data but I 

would like your impression first. The degree to which you have financial data of the 9/11 Memorial Museum at the World Trade 

Center Foundation, their filings, as regards how much they will receive and how much they put out in O and M. Do you have any 

understanding of that? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. We don’t have an analysis of that that I’m aware 

of. 

88 

Senator CASSIDY. Okay. 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Our concern is that we have no role in managing 

that memorial, and so that is a concern to us. So we would have 

no oversight or other role in determining those costs. 

Senator CASSIDY. Are there any other circumstances or a park or 

you name it where this amount of money, a significant amount of 

money, would be given the order of magnitude, $15 million, $25 

million, whatever, and the National Park Service would not have 

a role in administration? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Not at this time. 

Senator CASSIDY. How many programs do you all administer? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Well, we administer 411 units. We administer at 

least 30 programs that support partners in various activities from 

documenting historic places to providing for administering grants 

to acquire recreational lands. 

Senator CASSIDY. Now if this money is allocated, do you anticipate receiving more money next year or would this, if you will, cannibalize funding for these other programs? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Without an additional specific appropriation, it 

would have to reduce what’s available to our other programs and 

parks. 

Senator CASSIDY. Thank you. 

My staff has given me something which, again, I suspect the 

backers of this bill may find differently, but they base this upon 

the IRS Form 990 which is publicly available. They estimate the 

amount spent on operations and maintenance as well as security 

is approximately $27, $28 million and contributions from museum 

admissions and membership in the same year was roughly $42 million with an additional $87 million in contributions. So just to point 

that out, it does seem as if what they are receiving is adequate for 

O and M, but again, I am sure there is another part of that story. 

Okay, thank you. 

Let me ask you a couple other things. On the boundary adjustments, seven of these bills pertain to this. How would these proposed boundary modifications impact individual park budgets including acquisition cost? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. In virtually all of them, except for Ocmulgee 

which has a fairly significant addition of land so there would be 

some additional operation cost if all of that land came onboard. 

The fairly minor adjustments, so at Florissant Fossil Beds, for 

example, that’s about the—that’s a small acreage, I believe it’s 

under 20, but I’d have to double check that. It has the advantage 

of being immediately adjacent, being pretty much open, undeveloped land. And it would provide additional, much needed, access 

for wildland firefighting. So that would be virtually no impact. 

I’m just looking at some of the other ones. Fort Scott National 

Historic Site boundary, that includes three structures plus a block 

house. In that case, again, there are administrative uses that 

would take pressure off current facilities within the site, and so the 

costs are believed to be minimal in terms of bringing those on. 

So, again, the Ocmulgee, Ocmulgee, I’m sorry for that one, that’s 

the only one. And again, the costs are fairly modest, maybe, just 

a couple of additional FTEs. 

Senator CASSIDY. Okay. 

89 

Five of the bills we are hearing today would designate or provide 

for feasibility studies for National Heritage Areas. Last year Congress gave $19.8 million for these areas according to CRS. 

How do you consider funding for these heritage areas in light of 

the maintenance backlog that currently exists within the National 

Park Service? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Well, while all the funding comes under your 

ceiling, they are coming from two different funding streams. So 

maintenance for the National Park Service is coming out of the operations of the National Park Service and the heritage areas is 

coming out of the National Recreation and Preservation budget. 

So other than that more general ceiling that the Committee 

works under, it’s not a direct one for one comparison. 

Senator CASSIDY. Gotcha, okay. 

How much of this land is privately owned and have any of the 

land owners objected to these proposals? 

Dr. TOOTHMAN. Under the provisions of virtually all of these legislations, no land owner would be included without their consent 

and these are collaborative ventures that don’t include zoning or 

other types of management. They’re more focused on promoting 

heritage tourism and preservation of natural and cultural resources, so there’s no oversight or ability to directly effect of a private property owner. 

Senator CASSIDY. Okay. 

Senator Heinrich. 

Senator HEINRICH. Yes, I just wanted to quickly mention with regard to S. 2807 which we will look forward to working with you 

and then also the Florida delegation on. 

I think in just quickly reading through the entire written record 

from the Park Service, I think one of the challenges here is that 

we have a management disagreement at Biscayne Bay as to what 

the proper solution is. But the proposed solution actually impacts 

the entire Service including Glacier Bay and Padre Island and Dry 

Tortugas and other places where we do not have a problem. I think 

that may help us to hone our solution a little bit more. 

Senator CASSIDY. Okay. 

Thank you, Dr. Toothman, for your testimony. 

If there are no other questions, members may also submit follow 

up questions for the record. 

Senator CASSIDY. The hearing record will be open for two weeks. 

Again, I thank, Dr. Toothman, for her time and testimony. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:25 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.] 

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