From: Robert Berman [mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com] 

Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:21 PM 

To: Rick Anderson 

Cc: kwinder@mleainc.com; jhodge@howard-ind.com; richardparkerdc@gmail.com; 

phopkinson@hvolt.com; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com; adelaski@standardsasap.org; 

ahofmann@PublicPower.org; Aris Marantan; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; august.esch@gmail.com; 

BermanEconomics@gmail.com; Brian Coffey; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com; 

cabolduc@lbl.gov; Caitlin Johnson; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; 

chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; charlied@uus.org; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; 

clark.silcox@nema.org; cstephens@neea.org; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; dave.millure@metglas.com; 

DYoung@energy-solution.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; gbf1@pge.com; 

gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; James.Lass@cleco.com; 

Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov; Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov 

Subject: Re: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole 

A fee per attachment is one way to do it. My understanding of joint pole associations is that the 

JPA owns the pole and the members use it. In either case, setting the pole itself is another issue. 

Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703‐281‐0490

703‐655‐8398 (cell)

BermanEconomics@gmail.com

On Oct 20, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Rick Anderson wrote: 

Typically, the owner of the pole collects a monthly flat fee per attachment. I don't see how you 

can mix the cost and weight of the transformer into this analysis since its a separate Agreement 

and not all poles have pole attachments. 

If the utility needs to change a transformer and discovers that the new, heavier transformer 

exceeds the limitations of the existing pole, they are forced to set a new pole. There are a variety 

of agreements when it comes to transferring the attachments. 

The bigger problem is when you're in downtown Baltimore and there's no room to set another 

pole. 
Rick 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Kenneth Winder [mailto:kwinder@mleainc.com] 

Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:58 AMTo: Jerry Hodge <jhodge@howard-ind.com> 

Cc: Richard Parker <richardparkerdc@gmail.com>; phopkinson@hvolt.com

<phopkinson@hvolt.com>; Meyers, Aaron <Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com>; 

adelaski@standardsasap.org <adelaski@standardsasap.org>; ahofmann@publicpower.org

<ahofmann@publicpower.org>; amarantan@navigant.com <amarantan@navigant.com>; 

artrosenfeld@gmail.com <artrosenfeld@gmail.com>; august.esch@gmail.com

<august.esch@gmail.com>; BermanEconomics@gmail.com <BermanEconomics@gmail.com>; 

brian.coffey@navigant.com <brian.coffey@navigant.com>; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com

<bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com>; bsmith@federalpacific.com <bsmith@federalpacific.com>; 

cabolduc@lbl.gov <cabolduc@lbl.gov>; Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com

<Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com>; carlos.gaytan@ge.com <carlos.gaytan@ge.com>; 

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com <carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com>; chad.kennedy@us.schneiderelectric.com <chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com>; charlied@uus.org

<charlied@uus.org>; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com <chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com>; 

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Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov <Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov>; dave.millure@metglas.com

<dave.millure@metglas.com>; DYoung@energy-solution.com <DYoung@energysolution.com>; eduardorobles@eaton.com <eduardorobles@eaton.com>; 

Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com <Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com>; gbf1@pge.com <gbf1@pge.com>; 

gjrosenquist@lbl.gov <gjrosenquist@lbl.gov>; greg.coulter405@gmail.com

<greg.coulter405@gmail.com>; James.Lass@cleco.com <James.Lass@cleco.com>; 

Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov <Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov>; 

Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov <Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov>; 

jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com <jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com>; 

jerry.schoen@aksteel.com <jerry.schoen@aksteel.com>; Jim.creevy@nema.org

<Jim.creevy@nema.org>; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov <Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov>; 

jmauer@standardsasap.org <jmauer@standardsasap.org>; john.caskey@nema.org

<john.caskey@nema.org>; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov <john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov>; 

jrossetti@mlgw.org <jrossetti@mlgw.org>; kcoughlin@lbl.gov <kcoughlin@lbl.gov>; 

maheshsampat@bellsouth.net <maheshsampat@bellsouth.net>; mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com

<mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com>; matthew.nardotti@navigant.com

<matthew.nardotti@navigant.com>; maxinesavitz@aol.com <maxinesavitz@aol.com>; 

mhyland@appanet.org <mhyland@appanet.org>; mrivest@navigant.com

<mrivest@navigant.com>; mwaltner@nrdc.org <mwaltner@nrdc.org>; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com

<Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com>; phil@pjharter.com <phil@pjharter.com>; pkumar@publicpower.org

<pkumar@publicpower.org>; Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com

<Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com>; rgreeson@federalpacific.com

<rgreeson@federalpacific.com>; Rick Anderson; robert.saint@nreca.coop

<robert.saint@nreca.coop>; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov <robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov>; 

rroy@nrdc.org <rroy@nrdc.org>; ScottB@lvmetals.com <ScottB@lvmetals.com>; 
snadel@aceee.org <snadel@aceee.org>; srosenstock@eei.org <srosenstock@eei.org>; 

tballo@earthjustice.org <tballo@earthjustice.org>; Teckman@nwcouncil.org

<Teckman@nwcouncil.org>; thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com

<thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com>; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com

<vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com>; zhimei.luo@navigant.com <zhimei.luo@navigant.com> 

Subject: Re: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole 

Jerry: 

Jerry and All: 

 Thank you for your clarifying questions. The estimate does not 

involve a joint-use pole. 

 We have joint-use agreements with telephone and cable TV companies, 

but those joint-use poles are generally confined to the communities we 

serve. Telephone in the area is almost exclusively underground outside 

of the communities and to a major extent inside those communities. 

Density of customers outside of the communities does not justify cable 

TV service per those companies, and therefore, everyone uses wireless 

(satellite TV service or reception by antenna) in the rural areas. We 

are almost the exclusive owner of all poles in the area. 

 The pole change out under the situation with additional users would 

certainly complicate the change out and increase the costs, as you point 

out so well. Some of the costs may be collected from the other joint 

users per agreement language, but usually the joint user must perform 

removal and re-installation at its expense. 

 The driver of the change out is the heavier transformer, and since 

we are the owner of the poles, we do not have a claim to share our cost 

of the pole change out except through the monthly joint-use fees (that 

they were paying for the original pole attachment). 

 I expect that change-out estimates from other utilities, especially 

in municipal and urban areas, will be able to shed more light on this 

subject regarding joint-user involvement and more specifically on how 

the replacement costs rise for that situation. 

Ken 

On 10/20/2011 8:27 AM, Jerry Hodge wrote: 

Ken: 

Does your pole change out estimate include the costs incurred by the other joint users of the pole 

such as the telephone or TV cable companies for transferring their equipment from the old to the 

new pole? Sometimes too, the pole is owned by one of the other joint users and you may have to 

wait until they can begin their work before the power co. can act. Time is an important issue. 

 All of this can add to the cost of change out. 

Jerry 
Jerry Hodge 

Consulting Engineer, E.E., M.S., P.E. 

Retired V.P.& G.M. of Pole Type Transformer& Regulator Div. 

Howard Industries Inc. 

P.O.Box 1588 

Laurel, Ms, 39440 

601 422-1539 Bus. 

484 226-6190 Cell 

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-----Original Message----- 

From: Kenneth Winder [mailto:kwinder@mleainc.com] 

Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:37 PM 

To: Richard Parker 

Cc: phopkinson@hvolt.com; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com; 

adelaski@standardsasap.org; ahofmann@publicpower.org; 

amarantan@navigant.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; august.esch@gmail.com; 

BermanEconomics@gmail.com; brian.coffey@navigant.com; 

bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com; cabolduc@lbl.gov; 

Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; 

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; 

charlied@uus.org; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; clark.silcox@nema.org; 

cstephens@neea.org; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; dave.millure@metglas.com; 

DYoung@energy-solution.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; 

Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; gbf1@pge.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; 

greg.coulter405@gmail.com; James.Lass@cleco.com; 

Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov; Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov; 

jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; Jerry 

Hodge; Jim.creevy@nema.org; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov; 

jmauer@standardsasap.org; john.caskey@nema.org; 

john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; jrossetti@mlgw.org; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; 

maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com; 

matthew.nardotti@navigant.com; maxinesavitz@aol.com; 

mhyland@appanet.org; mrivest@navigant.com; mwaltner@nrdc.org; 
Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; phil@pjharter.com; pkumar@publicpower.org; 

Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com; 

richardparkerdc@gmail.com; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; 

robert.saint@nreca.coop; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov; rroy@nrdc.org; 

ScottB@lvmetals.com; snadel@aceee.org; srosenstock@eei.org; 

tballo@earthjustice.org; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; 

thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; 

zhimei.luo@navigant.com; Chris Boulduc; Ken Winder 

Subject: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole 

Richard and Committee: 

 Attached is a spreadsheet showing the cost to replace an existing 

pole in a three-phase distribution circuit with an existing single-phase 

distribution transformer mounted on it. This information was developed 

to estimate the cost to replace an existing pole with a new, higher 

strength pole required because of the increased weight of the 

distribution transformer. This estimate represents the cost to do this 

for my Cooperative. 

 Other Utilities will be furnishing this information for their systems. 

Kenneth A. Winder, PE 

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