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65–296—PDF 2009

S. HRG. 111–947 

NOMINATIONS OF WILLIAM WILKINS, 

DANIEL TANGHERLINI, ROSA GUMATAOTAO RIOS, 

AND CARMEN R. NAZARIO 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF 

WILLIAM WILKINS, TO BE CHIEF COUNSEL, INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE AND AN ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF THE 

TREASURY; DANIEL TANGHERLINI, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 

TREASURY FOR MANAGEMENT AND CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY; ROSA GUMATAOTAO RIOS, TO BE 

TREASURER OF THE UNITED STATES, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY; AND CARMEN R. NAZARIO, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 

HEALTH FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH 

AND HUMAN SERVICES 

JULY 14, 2009 

( 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

MAX BAUCUS, Montana, Chairman 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota 

JEFF BINGAMAN, New Mexico 

JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts 

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

BILL NELSON, Florida 

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

CHUCK GRASSLEY, Iowa 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine 

JON KYL, Arizona 

JIM BUNNING, Kentucky 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

RUSSELL SULLIVAN, Staff Director 

KOLAN DAVIS, Republican Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

(II) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Baucus, Hon. Max, a U.S. Senator from Montana, chairman, Committee 

on Finance ............................................................................................................ 1 

Grassley, Hon. Chuck, a U.S. Senator from Iowa ................................................. 4 

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., a U.S. Senator from Delaware ..................................... 6 

ADMINISTRATION NOMINEES 

Nazario, Carmen R., nominated to be Assistant Secretary of Health for Children and Families, Department of Health and Human Services, Washington, DC ............................................................................................................. 7 

Rios, Rosa Gumataotao, nominated to be Treasurer of the United States, 

Department of the Treasury, Washington, DC .................................................. 9 

Tangherlini, Daniel, nominated to be Assistant Secretary of Treasury for 

Management and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Treasury, 

Washington, DC ................................................................................................... 10 

Wilkins, William, nominated to be Chief Counsel, Internal Revenue Service 

and an Assistant General Counsel, Department of the Treasury, Washington, DC ............................................................................................................. 12 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL 

Baucus, Hon. Max: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 21 

Carper, Hon. Thomas R.: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 6 

Grassley, Hon. Chuck: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 4 

Nazario, Carmen R.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 24 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 27 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 39 

Rios, Rosa Gumataotao: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 9 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 50 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 52 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 60 

Tangherlini, Daniel: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 64 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 66 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 78 

Wilkins, William: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 12 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 81 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 83 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 92 

(III) 

(1) 

NOMINATIONS OF WILLIAM WILKINS, TO BE 

CHIEF COUNSEL, INTERNAL REVENUE 

SERVICE AND AN ASSISTANT GENERAL 

COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF THE 

TREASURY; DANIEL TANGHERLINI, TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF TREASURY FOR 

MANAGEMENT AND CHIEF FINANCIAL 

OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF THE 

TREASURY; ROSA GUMATAOTAO RIOS, 

TO BE TREASURER OF THE UNITED STATES, 

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY; 

AND CARMEN R. NAZARIO, TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HEALTH FOR 

CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, DEPARTMENT OF 

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 

TUESDAY, JULY 14, 2009 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE, 

Washington, DC. 

The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in 

room SD–215, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Max Baucus 

(chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Menendez, Carper, and Grassley. 

Also present: Democratic Staff: Bill Dauster, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel; Ayesha Khanna, International Trade 

Counsel; Rory Murphy, International Trade Analyst; Diedra HenrySpires, Professional Staff; and Mary Baker, Detailee. Republican 

Staff: Becky Shipp, Health Policy Advisor; Theresa Pattara, Tax 

Counsel; Tony Coughlan, Tax Counsel; and Nick Wyatt, Tax Staff 

Assistant. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM MONTANA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. 

Speaker Sam Rayburn said, ‘‘You cannot be a leader and ask 

other people to follow you, unless you know how to follow, too.’’ 

We have before us four people who have been nominated by 

President Obama to help lead the government. It is imperative that 

each one of you lead, but remember, you cannot lead alone; you 

2 

must lead with the help of those around you. And as you lead, you 

must follow the guidance of those whom you serve. We are all just 

hired hands. The American people are our bosses, and, as you lead, 

you must follow the guidance of the American people. 

Mr. Wilkins, you have been nominated to be Chief Counsel of the 

Internal Revenue Service. In this role, you will not lead alone; 

rather, you will lead with the help of more than 1,400 attorneys in 

that office, and you will lead the IRS on critical issues. You will 

have influence over the resolution of tax issues that affect individuals, businesses, and tax-exempt organizations. 

Effective tax administration requires equitable treatment of all 

taxpayers. Taxpayers have a right to expect consistency and certainty in the way that tax laws are interpreted and applied. Taxpayers have a right to know that issues will be addressed expeditiously within the bounds of IRS authority. Issues must not be allowed to fester for years, just because no one is willing to take a 

position. 

Taxpayers have a right to expect the IRS to act tenaciously to 

shut down scams and schemes that undermine the health of a voluntary tax system. A $345-billion annual tax gap is simply not acceptable. I want to underline that. It means a lot to me, solving 

and closing that gap. 

Mr. Wilkins, you have an excellent reputation that was demonstrated by a selection as a tax section chair of the American Bar 

Association in 2008. Your distinguished career also includes 

lengthy service with the Senate Finance Committee, culminating in 

your role as Staff Director and Chief Counsel. The Nation will rely 

on your experience, expertise, and leadership to provide timely, 

fair, and well-reasoned legal analysis of the important issues facing 

our Nation. 

And, as you lead, you must take your guidance from the people 

who are relying on you, for the legal guidance that you provide will 

affect every American. 

Mr. Tangherlini, you are nominated to be the Assistant Secretary 

of Treasury for Management and the Treasury’s Chief Financial 

Officer. In this role, you will not lead alone. Rather, you will lead 

with the help of experts throughout the Department, and in this 

role you will help to ensure the quality of the Treasury Department 

at every turn. 

You will provide primary policy advice during the development of 

Treasury’s budget. Adequate funding there will ensure that Treasury can help to guide us out of these difficult economic times. It 

will allow IRS to provide top-notch taxpayer services and to bring 

the IRS up to the 21st century in computers and technology. 

I commend your long history of public service at the Office of 

Management and Budget, the Department of Transportation, and 

most recently, the District of Columbia as a DC City Administrator 

and Deputy Mayor. 

I appreciate your willingness to take on this important role at 

Treasury. The Nation will be relying on your experience, your expertise, and leadership to be a good steward of taxpayers’ dollars. 

And, as you lead, you must also take your guidance from those taxpayers, for the policies that you further will also affect each American. 

3 

Ms. Rios, you are nominated to be the U.S. Treasurer. In this 

role, you will not lead alone. Rather, you will lead with the help 

of folks at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, as well as the 

U.S. Mint. You will lead in a position that touches every American. 

The Treasurer oversees our Nation’s currency, responsibilities for 

the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and the U.S. Mint. 

The U.S. Savings Bond program also falls under the aegis of the 

Treasurer, and your signature will appear on all paper currency 

printed during your tenure. I will be looking for it. [Laughter.] 

Your distinguished career in municipal economic development 

demonstrates a commitment to sound fiscal policy that will serve 

you well in your new position. 

The Nation is relying on your experience, your expertise, your 

leadership to protect our money supply and promote responsible 

savings policies. And, as you lead, you must take your guidance 

from the American people, for the decisions you make will also affect each American. 

Ms. Nazario, you are nominated to be the Assistant Secretary for 

Children and Families. In this role, you too, will not lead alone. 

Rather, you will lead alongside the many Americans who dedicate 

themselves to bettering the lives of our under-served children and 

families. 

In your 40-year career, you have shown your ability to lead. Your 

career began as a child welfare case worker in 1968, and you have 

been working for children and for vulnerable families ever since. 

You have served as a Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for the 

Administration for Children and Families during the Clinton administration, and you have run departments serving children and 

families in Virginia, in Delaware, and in Puerto Rico. 

We look forward to working with you to implement the Fostering 

Connections in Increasing Adoptions Act that passed through this 

committee and was signed into law last year. That means a lot to 

me, that bill. 

We must also reauthorize the Temporary Assistance to Needy 

Families program, otherwise know as TANF, and we must work on 

the child care development and social services block grants. The 

TANF bill will provide opportunities to improve the safety net and 

improve sustainable employment for folks trying to support families. It also presents the opportunity to look at related programs 

that serve children, like child support enforcement. 

And, though we made great strides last year on work on child 

welfare, our work is not done, far from done. We must also strive 

to ensure that children need not enter the welfare system. We 

must also provide solutions for those children who do enter foster 

care. 

Ms. Nazario, the Nation’s children and families rely on your experience, your expertise, and your leadership. You have demonstrated you can lead, and, as you lead, you must take your guidance from those worthy people whom you will serve, for the decisions that you make will affect not only the children and families 

of this generation, but those of generations to come. 

You have all been chosen to lead, all four of you, but, as you lead, 

you do not lead alone, rather, you lead by following the guidance 

4 

of those whom you serve, and together you will then achieve the 

worthy goals of the positions to which you have been nominated. 

Senator Grassley? 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHUCK GRASSLEY, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM IOWA 

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Congratulations to all of you for your nominations. You see I arrived late, and I will be going in just a little while because I am 

across the hall at the Sotomayor hearings, and so I will not be with 

you very long. I hope you will not take that personally. I usually 

attend these meetings very regularly and stay with them. And I 

thank the chairman for his understanding of that as well. 

Mr. Wilkins, in reviewing your varied experience, I note that you 

rose from assistant to the accountant of a Harvard book store, to 

Staff Director and Chief Tax Counsel of this committee, and then 

you have been in private practice for a long time. I hope that you 

have carried with you a sense of our priorities, and we sometimes 

see things differently than people in the executive branch of government. 

And I have also noted that you have experience working with 

tax-exempt organizations, and I think you know about my interest 

in the tax-exempt sector and will continue to work with me to ensure our tax laws are applied in an adequate and effective way. 

Mr. Tangherlini, you will need all of your management experiences to succeed in the Treasury Department. While many of your 

challenges will not appear on the front pages of our national newspapers or the Sunday talk shows, they are still very serious. 

Information and technology management at the IRS is enough to 

take up a whole career, but your additional challenges will include 

responding to the expected retirement of senior personnel at the 

IRS and ensuring that the entire Treasury Department has the resources to operate in an environment where the Department is taking on new responsibilities because of this economic crisis that we 

are in. 

Ms. Rios, in your written testimony, you said that you appreciate 

the importance of financial education and financial literacy. I will 

be interested in knowing how you believe the government can improve the lives of people who do not have the resources or information to make good financial decisions for themselves. 

And finally, we hear from Carmen Nazario, nominated as the Assistant Secretary for Children and Families at HHS. Thank you for 

appearing before the Senate Finance Committee. If confirmed, you 

face a number of important challenges. 

You will oversee the implementation of the Fostering Connections to Success and Increasing Adoptions Act of last year. This legislation has been characterized as the most significant reform in 

the child welfare system in over a decade because it established a 

kinship-guardianship assistance for children, established a State 

option to extend foster care services for children up to age 21, and 

made a number of key improvements in the Federal adoption programs. 

Senator Baucus and I have a history of accomplishing important 

and far-reaching improvements to the child welfare system. If conVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:23 Apr 12, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\65296.000 TIMD
5 

firmed, I hope to work with you to further improve child welfare 

for over 500,000 children who are in foster care and the thousands 

more who will interact with our child welfare system. 

Most agree that the current welfare financing system is outdated 

and the priorities are misdirected. Instead of focusing the majority 

of child welfare funding on strengthening and preserving families 

and preventing abuse and neglect, the vast majority of child welfare funding is directed at the least desirable outcome: serving children in foster care. I look forward to working on a bipartisan basis 

to address child welfare financing. 

I am also hopeful that the traditionally bipartisan approach that 

we take towards child welfare will inform what may be your most 

daunting challenge, if confirmed. Of course, I mean, the reauthorization of the TANF program, otherwise referred to as Welfare Reform. 

In 1996, Welfare Reform was passed by a Republican Congress 

and signed by a Democratic President. Despite both sides claiming 

credit for declining caseloads, attempts to reauthorize TANF 2002 

through 2005 were extremely challenging. I am hopeful, then, that 

the debate of welfare reauthorization will be different this time. I 

think that it can be, if we focus on the changing demographics of 

the welfare caseload. 

Historically, the welfare caseload had been comprised of a family 

headed by a single parent who is unemployed, but able to work. 

Over time, that has changed. Increasingly, the welfare caseload is 

consisting of so-called child-only cases. These are cases where a 

child is either living with a parent who is ineligible for welfare or 

a child who is living with a non-parental caretaker, oftentimes a 

relative. So, as a result, the debate on TANF reauthorization will 

need to be focused on the relevant needs of the new caseload. 

It is not clear to me that these children are best served by placement in child-only welfare cases. Many of them could be better 

served, in my opinion, through a child welfare agency or through 

a more formal guardianship arrangement. I am hopeful that the 

debate over welfare reauthorization can be more appropriately 

child-focused and that we can work to improve and enhance services for child-only welfare cases. 

In addition to Child Welfare and Welfare Reform, if confirmed, 

you will need to administer a number of other important programs, 

such as Child Support and Enforcement, the Child Care Block 

Grant, and others. These programs are also critical to maintaining 

the social safety net for vulnerable children and families. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I hope each of you will understand if I submit questions in writing to each of you. 

Thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator, very much. 

[The questions appear in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. We have four witnesses today, and today’s panel 

begins with Bill Wilkins, who has been nominated to be Chief 

Counsel of IRS. Next, we will hear from Dan Tangherlini, who has 

been nominated to be Assistant Secretary of Treasury for Management and Chief Financial Officer. Next, Rosa Rios, nominated to be 

Treasurer, and finally, we have Carmen Nazario, whom Senator 

6 

Carper will introduce. She has been nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Health for Children and Families. 

So, why don’t we start with you, Senator, and you can introduce 

Ms. Nazario? 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM DELAWARE 

Senator CARPER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

It is just a real treat to be here today to welcome Carmen 

Nazario to our committee. If you will look at Carmen’s resume, it 

says today she is the Assistant Professor at Inter-American University down in Puerto Rico, where she teaches social policy and coordinates social work practicum at the School of Social Work. That 

is what she has been doing this year. 

What she has done for the past 3 decades before that—4 decades 

before that—is for me just really awe-inspiring. A great, rich resume that shows from 2003 to 2008 she was the Administrator for 

the Administration for Children and Families for the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. She led an agency with 4,000 people on her 

staff and a budget of some $220 million. 

Prior to that, she ran a big program for the country of Jordan 

as a Senior Resident Investigator for the Jordan Poverty Alleviation Program, and brings that experience from an international 

level. 

Prior to that, she was a senior official in the Clinton administration as Assistant Commissioner for Childcare and the Administration for Children, Youth, and Families, and later she became the 

Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Administration for 

Children and Families. But before that, I had the good fortune as 

Governor of Delaware, my first term, when we were looking for 

somebody around the country to be our Secretary of Health and Social Services, we found Carmen Nazario in Virginia, and she was 

good enough to come to work with us. 

I found that—Senator Grassley talked about TANF and welfare 

reform—she basically ran welfare reform initiatives in Delaware 

and, through the National Governors Association, helped to do that 

for the country, worked very closely with the Congress for the Clinton administration in that role. 

She believed, as I do, that work should be more than welfare, 

and, when people go to work, if they need training, education, we 

will provide that. If they need help in finding a job, we will provide 

that. If they need help with their health care, we provide that. The 

idea at the end of the day, though, is to make sure that people are 

better off because they are working rather than on welfare. 

And she ran the toughest department in our State, the Department of Health and Social Services, which was a big job on its 

own—and I will close with this—helped to coordinate something 

called the Family Services Cabinet Counsel, which is seven different departments of State government, all focused on strengthening families, and not just welfare reform, but we ran the youth/ 

adolescent pregnancy prevention out of there, State-wide mentoring 

initiatives, all kinds of stuff, which really is good for families, good 

for kids. 

7 

And I think we are just lucky that the administration said that 

they would like for her to take on this job that she is here for 

today, and we are very fortunate that she is willing to do it. 

One of the finest people I have ever worked with: Carmen 

Nazario. It is great to see her. Welcome here today. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Why don’t we then begin with you, Ms. Nazario? 

With that wonderful warm introduction, you can lead off here. 

STATEMENT OF CARMEN R. NAZARIO, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HEALTH FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, 

WASHINGTON, DC 

Ms. NAZARIO. Thank you so much, Senator Carper. After that introduction, I am humbled—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Before you begin, do you want to introduce any 

family who might be here, because they are all part of the same 

team? 

Ms. NAZARIO. I am delighted to introduce Dr. Fe ́lix Matos. He is 

the president of Hostos Community College in New York. Amelia 

Liz Engel. She is from the administration. She has been shepherding me through this process. And Amelia Maxfield is an intern 

at ACF and has been my assistant during the summer months. 

The CHAIRMAN. Great. Thank you all very, very much for your 

assistance. 

Ms. NAZARIO. Thank you for being with me today. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Ms. NAZARIO. I appreciate it. 

Senator Baucus, members of the committee, good morning. I am 

honored to have been selected by President Obama to serve as Assistant Secretary for Children and Families at the Department of 

Health and Human Services. I am delighted to be here today to 

discuss my nomination. 

The Administration for Children and Families is crucial to the 

mission of the Department and to the future of our country, ensuring that children and families are protected, particularly in times 

of economic distress, and providing low-income working families 

with the support they need to succeed under any economic conditions. 

I am thrilled at the opportunity to assist Secretary Sebelius and 

to lead the Administration for Children and Families in such an 

important endeavor, and at such an important time. 

My career experiences have prepared me for this position, 

throughout more than 40 years in the field of human services at 

every level of government, as well as in the private and non-profit 

sectors. I have learned what works and what does not work, and 

I welcome the opportunity to bring my experiences to bear upon 

the important work of ACF. 

I served as Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Administration for Children and Families from 1999 to 2001, and have an 

intimate knowledge of the agency’s policies, programs, and services. 

I have worked in all the program areas of the agency. I have 

worked successfully with States, counties, cities, tribes, and community service agencies. 

8 

I have demonstrated success in working collaboratively and productively with members of both parties, and have proven ability to 

build consensus, think strategically, and develop institutional capacity for driving change. 

I am deeply honored by the President’s nomination, and, if confirmed, I will work with Congress to advance and build on the 

President’s priorities, and to ensure that the policies you enact are 

implemented consistent with congressional intent. 

If confirmed, I plan to concentrate on three priority areas. 

First, I plan to focus on supporting families to achieve economic 

success. Providing families with the tools they need to succeed is 

fundamental to ensuring that low-income working families are full 

participants in, and contributing members of, our society. This includes a strong focus on prevention efforts, community building, 

and broad partnerships that include an array of stakeholders. 

Second, I believe we must aggressively promote healthy and comprehensive child development. Both President Obama and Secretary Sebelius have said that investing in young children is critical to our future, and I could not agree more. If confirmed, I plan 

to work collaboratively across sectors to enhance opportunities for 

children to succeed in school and in life. To succeed in this effort, 

we need to establish stronger links between the programs within 

ACF, across HHS and other Federal departments, and with outside 

agencies and organizations. 

Third, I will strive to improve ACF’s institutional capacity in 

order to ensure the Agency is making real differences in the lives 

of families and children. In doing so, I will work to structure the 

Agency’s operations so it can carry out its mission efficiently and 

effectively. My vision for ACF is a highly responsive, self-correcting 

organization that utilizes data, technology, and succession planning 

to create an agency of the future. 

In pursing these objectives, please understand my deep commitment to maintaining an open dialogue with States, tribes, national 

organizations, and the grantee and advocacy communities to share 

ideas, learn from each other, and find common ground wherever 

possible. 

Chairman Baucus and members of the Committee, thank you 

again for this opportunity. I have confidence that the 1,400 public 

servants who serve as employees of the Administration for Children and Families are prepared to get the job done for all the families and children we care so much about. If confirmed, I am ready 

to lead them in that important effort. 

I am happy to answer any questions. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, very much, Ms. Nazario. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Nazario appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Rios, you are next. You have the opportunity 

to introduce friends and family right now. 

9 

STATEMENT OF ROSA GUMATAOTAO RIOS, NOMINATED TO BE 

TREASURER OF THE UNITED STATES, DEPARTMENT OF THE 

TREASURY, WASHINGTON, DC 

Ms. RIOS. Thank you, Chairman Baucus and members of the 

Senate Committee on Finance, for the opportunity to be here today 

regarding my nomination as the Treasurer of the United States. 

I am both honored and eager to serve my country during one of 

the most critical economic milestones in its history, and I am grateful to President Obama and Secretary Geithner for their consideration. 

I have had the pleasure of working with the Finance Committee 

staff, and I look forward to addressing your issues and interests, 

not just here today, but on an ongoing basis. 

If I could just take a few minutes, I would like to introduce my 

family members who have joined me today. First of all, my Mom, 

Guadalupe Rios, who courageously raised me and my 8 brothers 

and sisters as a single parent and who today remains my pillar of 

strength. My husband and partner of 26 years, Joe Gumataotao, 

and my brother, Jaime Rios, my sister Ophelia Huck and her son, 

Tyler. 

Finally, my two children, Joey and Brooke. Joey is 13 years old, 

a 4.0 student and a top athlete in baseball, and is not only on one, 

but two basketball teams, while receiving the highest grades in his 

class in both honors social studies and honors algebra. He just finished the school year as the first 7th grader in the school district 

to be the number-one ranked tennis player among all the grades 

of both middle schools. 

Brooke is 8 years old. She is a fine student who just finished 

third grade as a member of her student council, the top scorer on 

her basketball team, and the only girl in the Little League team, 

skipping two levels and competing among boys, some as much as 

3 years older than she is. In addition, she is a nationally recognized 

competitive tap dancer. 

Joey and Brooke are my primary inspirations and the reason 

why I believe we as a Nation need to move in the right direction 

to solve not just today’s financial crises, but to build tomorrow’s 

dreams. 

The CHAIRMAN. Why don’t you all stand? We would like to recognize the whole family, everybody. [Applause.] 

Ms. RIOS. And we are missing about two-thirds of my family. 

[Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Among those that you introduced, I can see that 

there are a couple who could well serve this country in various capacities when they grow a little older. 

Ms. RIOS. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. You should be very proud of your family, and I 

know you are. 

Ms. RIOS. Thank you. Thank you very much. 

I have been fortunate enough to build a career in both the private and public sectors, working on community development issues 

that have been at the forefront of our current economic challenges. 

Previously, during my tenure in working with local governments, 

I have served as the Director of Economic Development and Redevelopment departments and have worked directly with commuVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:23 Apr 12, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\65296.000 TIMD
10 

nities, businesses, and citizens in the areas of business attraction 

and retention, job creation, workforce development, and urban revitalization. 

Most recently, I have had the distinct pleasure of serving on the 

Treasury and Federal Reserve transition team. One of my key functions was to serve as the lead staff member for all external stakeholder outreach on behalf of the new administration. I was able to 

hear first-hand from many different constituencies about their interests, concerns, and recommendations, and on the value of Treasury’s and the administration’s role in incorporating that feedback 

into its policies, initiatives, and programs. 

I am an economic development practitioner—this is my passion 

and my calling—and I believe this experience has enabled me to 

understand and appreciate the importance of financial literacy and 

education as we move forward. Indeed, times have changed, and 

the bar of expectation has been raised in terms of resources that 

are both necessary and timely. 

I am a firm believer in government serving as facilitator, not just 

to provide financial information, but to identify the partners who 

can also design and provide tools during the planning and implementation process. Public-private partnerships are one of the important paths to our solutions, and with so much at stake, now 

more than ever, both the inter-agency efforts and the bureaus and 

offices within Treasury must be much more strategic in the type 

of information that is disseminated and how resources are accessed. 

As an advisor to Secretary Geithner in these areas, should I be 

confirmed, I would work closely with the Office of Domestic Finance on financial literacy and education, along with our savings 

bond programs and those stakeholders to carry out the priorities of 

the Treasury Department and the Obama administration. 

In addition, I also look forward to working with the Bureau of 

Engraving and Printing and the U.S. Mint on behalf of the Secretary on matters relating to our currency and coinage. 

Mr. Chairman, I am proud to return to my roots of public service, 

and I will leverage my background and experience to work closely 

with my colleagues and constituencies and uphold the duties of the 

office of Treasurer. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Rios, very much. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Rios appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Next, Mr. Tangherlini. 

STATEMENT OF DANIEL TANGHERLINI, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF TREASURY FOR MANAGEMENT AND 

CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. Thank you very much, Senator. I am joined 

here today by my wonderful wife and partner, Theresa, my sweet 

9-year-old younger daughter, Francesca, my great parents-in-law 

Angelo and Connie Picillo, and someone who has virtually become 

a member of my family, my assistant Tonya, who has worked with 

me over 10 years, Tonya Dagett. 

11 

The CHAIRMAN. Great. Could you all stand, all of you, including 

Tonya? [Applause.] 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. And I want to say good morning to you, Chairman Baucus, Ranking Member Grassley, distinguished members of 

the committee and staff. 

I am honored to have my nomination come before you today. I 

am grateful to President Obama and Secretary Geithner for asking 

me to serve at the Treasury Department at this critical time in our 

Nation’s economy. And I also want to thank your staff for meeting 

with me last week and discussing management issues and my 

qualifications for the position for which I have been nominated. 

I am particularly grateful to my wife of 14 years, Theresa, and 

to our children, Cassandra, 12, and Francesca, 9, for their support 

and willingness to allow me to continue to serve in government 

with all its attendant sacrifices. Theresa serves in her own way, as 

a pediatric nurse practitioner in private practice in suburban Virginia. Cassandra and Francesca are committed students, Girl 

Scouts, and soccer players. 

I cannot say that service to our Nation and our people is an idea 

I came to on my own. My family has a long tradition of public service. My grandfather, who immigrated to this country from Italy, 

served in the Army during the first world war, was wounded in 

battle, and later spent his career as a machinist at the Charlestown Navy Yards in Boston, MA. 

My father followed him into the Army and fought in the second 

world war, including the Battle of the Bulge. He later worked on 

the long-term defense of our Nation by studying inertial guidance 

systems, both in graduate school and when he worked as a defense 

contractor. 

My uncle worked as a civilian in the Navy for his career. And 

my brothers both serve: my younger brother as a paramedic-firefighter in San Francisco, and my older brother as a professor at 

UCLA. 

My mother is active in local issues of my home town of Auburn, 

MA, and my father-in-law is a retired career Federal civil servant. 

I came to Washington in 1991, eager to work in government and 

serve the Nation. As a newly appointed presidential management 

fellow, I accepted my first job with the Office of Management and 

Budget as a Budget Preparation Specialist. I stayed at OMB for 6 

years, working in a variety of capacities. 

After my next job with the U.S. Department of Transportation, 

I began what would become a 10-year stint with the government 

of the District of Columbia. Working for Mayor Williams and, later, 

Mayor Fenty, I had the pleasure to watch the fortunes of our Nation’s capital turn nearly full-circle. I also learned the significant 

role government can play in people’s lives. 

I bring to this challenge nearly 20 years of experience from not 

just working in government, but experience in working to change 

government for the better. In my work as chief financial officer for 

the Metropolitan Police Department, I learned that strong programmatic financial management is the key to unlocking greatly 

improved results. 

12 

I also gained my first experience as a manager, during which 

time I learned that all employees have skills and talents that great 

organizations learn to encourage, support, and leverage. 

As Director of the Department of Transportation, I learned that 

challenges are also opportunities and that high-quality, personalized customer service will go a long way toward building the support and credibility one needs for the hard choices. This lesson was 

reinforced for me every day when I served as interim general manager at Metro, where I was responsible for safely and efficiently 

moving more than 1 million people a day to and from their destinations. 

Most recently, as City Administrator/Deputy Mayor, I was continually reminded how precious are the resources—human capital, 

financial, and otherwise—that we are entrusted with by the public, 

and how powerful our responsibility is to use them as efficiently 

and as effectively as we can. 

I am humbled and honored to have the possibility of serving the 

Nation in this new capacity, should I be confirmed. If you and your 

colleagues in the Senate give me the opportunity to serve as Assistant Secretary for Management and Chief Financial Officer for the 

U.S Treasury Department, I promise to apply myself fully to the 

best of my ability to justify your trust and confidence. 

I thank you for allowing me to appear before you today and will 

answer any questions you have. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Tangherlini. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Tangherlini appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wilkins? 

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM WILKINS, NOMINATED TO BE CHIEF 

COUNSEL, INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE AND AN ASSISTANT 

GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, 

WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. WILKINS. Thank you, Chairman Baucus and members of the 

committee, for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am 

honored to have been nominated by President Obama to serve as 

IRS Chief Counsel, and I am grateful to the Commissioner and to 

Secretary Geithner for recommending me to the President. 

I am also pleased to be able to return to this hearing room. I will 

always treasure my experience of working on this staff and, if I am 

confirmed, I will certainly value open communications with this 

committee. 

I am also grateful to my family for their support. My wife, Gail, 

is with me here today. Gail and I have one son, Sam, who is in the 

class of 2011 at West Point. And, right now, he is at the Academy 

conducting basic training for the entering class of 2013. 

On my own experience and qualifications—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Wilkins, why don’t you stand so we can recognize you. [Applause.] 

Mr. WILKINS. Regarding my own experience and qualifications, I 

have practiced tax law for 32 years. As I mentioned, I worked on 

the Finance Committee Democratic staff from 1981 to 1988. I initially worked on the tax staff under Senator Russell Long. Following the 1986 elections and Senator Long’s retirement, I was 

13 

Staff Director and Chief Counsel under Chairman Lloyd Bentsen. 

The Tax Reform Act of 1986 was the tax policy highlight of those 

years, but there were several other significant measures enacted as 

well. 

I have also had the privilege of working in two outstanding private law firms. I have been a partner at my current firm, Wilmer, 

Cutler, Pickering, Hale, and Dorr, since leaving the Finance Committee staff in 1988. I have advised for-profit and non-profit clients 

on a broad variety of tax compliance, tax planning, and transactional issues. 

I have also been active with the Section of Taxation of the American Bar Association. I am currently chair of the Section, and I 

served in several other Section offices prior to becoming chair last 

August. 

The Section on Taxation is the country’s largest association of 

tax lawyers, with over 20,000 members. I believe the Section 

makes a great contribution to the tax system through outstanding 

legal education, providing support for tax pro bono activities, and 

thoughtful participation in the tax guidance process. It has been a 

privilege to lead the Section over the past year, but my term as 

chair is nearly complete. In any event, I would not hold any Section 

office if confirmed as a government employee. 

The IRS Chief Counsel has significant responsibilities for administration of the tax system. The Office of Chief Counsel has approximately 2,300 employees, including hundreds of lawyers. The 

Chief Counsel’s office provides legal advice to the Commissioner 

and to the operating divisions of the IRS, it litigates cases in the 

Tax Court, it works closely with the Department of Justice on taxrelated matters before other Federal courts, it formulates overall 

litigation strategy for the IRS, and writes regulations and other 

guidance, implementing tax laws enacted by the Congress. 

The work of the Chief Counsel’s office calls for technical expertise, interpersonal skills in dealing respectfully and effectively with 

counterparts inside and outside the government, and, above all, 

sound judgment. 

If confirmed, it is my goal to provide the leadership necessary for 

the Office of Chief Counsel to demonstrate the highest level of skill 

and judgment in carrying out its important responsibilities. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Wilkins. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Wilkins appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. I have three obligatory questions that I want to 

ask now to all four of you. The first question that I ask, I will go 

down the table and see whether you agree or disagree. 

First, is there anything you are aware of in your background that 

might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to 

which you have been nominated? 

Mr. Wilkins? 

Mr. WILKINS. No, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Tangherlini? 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. No, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Rios? 

Ms. RIOS. No, sir. 

14 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Nazario? 

Ms. NAZARIO. No, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of any reason, personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably 

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been 

nominated? 

Mr. WILKINS. No, sir. 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. No, sir. 

Ms. RIOS. No, sir. 

Ms. NAZARIO. No, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you agree, without reservation, to respond to 

any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the Congress, if you are confirmed? 

Mr. WILKINS. Yes, I agree. 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. Yes, I agree. 

Ms. RIOS. Yes, I agree. 

Ms. NAZARIO. Yes, I agree. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. You all are going to do well. [Laughter.] 

All right. 

Mr. Wilkins, just a couple of questions about the tax gap. 

Mr. WILKINS. Yes, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Your view of how the complexity of the tax law 

affects the ability of the IRS and the Treasury to issue timely, accurate guidance to taxpayers and employees, and the degree to 

which the complexity and the delay tends to either encourage this 

tax gap or makes it difficult to narrow it? 

Mr. WILKINS. Well, complexity does interfere with guidance process and the ability of the Treasury and the Office of Chief Counsel 

to put out timely guidance. Frequency of legislation simply adds to 

the workload. 

In terms of effect on the tax gap, there are parts of the tax gap 

that deal with educating those who are interested in complying, 

and, to the extent that guidance can help people who want to comply do so, and do so more easily in a more transparent way, that 

would be helpful. 

The CHAIRMAN. Can you think of some examples that create 

undue confusion or significant burden on taxpayers, which discourage compliance? Give some examples. 

Mr. WILKINS. Well, one area which has been addressed to some 

extent in prior legislation has to do with people figuring out what 

the appropriate family unit is that they are filing a return for. So 

the definition of a child for tax purposes can be surprisingly complex around the grey edges. I think, though, Congress recognized 

that difficulty some years ago and managed to consolidate multiple 

definitions into a single definition. 

I think other areas where there are multiple tax programs addressing the same policy area offer opportunities for improved compliance and greater taxpayer understanding, and the more taxpayers who are affected by the particular provision, the greater 

simplification you can achieve through having simpler, and not 

multiple, approaches to the same issue. 

The CHAIRMAN. I urge you to be extremely aggressive, first in 

dealing with the complexity of the burden issues, but more genVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:23 Apr 12, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\65296.000 TIMD
15 

erally knowing this tax gap. I estimate, maybe, $300 or $400 billion 

every year of revenue that is not collected, legally owed by taxpayers. Not a change in the law, but legally owed by taxpayers that 

is not collected. 

We are right now trying to figure out how to pay for health care 

reform. Most of the savings will be through spending cuts, but we 

also have to raise some revenue, and ironically, coincidentally, the 

amount we are trying to raise is about that amount at this point. 

And we are probably going to have to find some other ways in the 

short run to find that money, but that is just unfair to the rest of 

the American taxpayers, who have the burden of the additional 

revenue, when other Americans are not paying their fair share. It 

is an insult, frankly. It is an outrage, when you think about it. 

And I have for years been trying to get the Treasury Department 

and the IRS to ‘‘do something about it,’’ and they mouth the words 

but I do not see a lot of action. I see a little, but not a lot. 

At one point a year or two ago, I held up an Assistant Treasury 

Secretary from being confirmed until I got greater assurance from 

the Treasury Secretary that he would address it. We went around 

the flagpole many times before it finally got a resolution. They got 

a commitment, but frankly it was a vacant commitment. It was an 

empty commitment. It never happened. It just seems to me, if I 

was in your shoes as Chief Counsel of IRS, I would have to think 

to myself, holy mackerel, this is wrong. We have to do something 

about this. It is not right. 

You have 1,400 attorneys there, you ought to be able to figure 

out some way to address it. Now, granted, some of this is political. 

A lot is because it is a cash economy. It allows independent contractors who use cash, paid cash receipts, payments in cash, to hide 

or under-report or over-expense or whatnot. But, I urge you to address it. 

I see I am getting the attention a little bit of Mr. Tangherlini, 

who might talk about this, too. He is the Chief Financial Officer 

over there. I am sure he can help figure out ways to address this 

tax gap. I do not think we can collect it all. It is going to take a 

little time, but at least we can put a big dent in it, and it is only 

fair to the people we serve. 

Mr. WILKINS. Thank you. I share your concern, and I appreciate 

your offer of support as we tangle with—— 

The CHAIRMAN. You have support—— 

Mr. WILKINS [continuing]. Difficult public policy and political 

issues. 

The CHAIRMAN. We need some ideas. Because you are there, you 

are going to have a better idea how to address it. You are on the 

ground. We are going to be watching from a distance, but it is 

wrong, and we want you to help address it. 

Mr. Tangherlini, the media have reported that the Washington 

Metro System, WMATA, participated in an abusive tax shelter 

transaction called the sale-in lease-out, otherwise known as SILO. 

I am just wondering. You served as interim general manager at the 

time, so to what extent were you involved in any decisions to invest 

in it, unwind any of those abusive tax shelters while there, while 

working in the District Government? 

16 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. The various programs that Metro had participated in, actually the last year that they were involved in it was 

in 2003. I did not join the board of Metro until 2004, and then 

served as interim general manager for just 9 months in 2006. So, 

at that time, the agreements and the arrangements had already 

been made by Metro, and my job, as a board member and then 

later as general manager, was simply overseeing the current arrangements and current agreements that Metro had. 

The CHAIRMAN. But did you participate in any unwinding? 

Mr. TANGHERLINI. There was no opportunity for unwinding at 

the time. It came before the board or was presented by staff at the 

time. Later on we learned, after I had left, that there were pretty 

substantial issues with them when I was serving as City Administrator. It became apparent that there were issues as kind of the 

third party arrangements in those deals began to unwind themselves. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Rios, what are your goals as Treasurer? 

What do you want to accomplish? When you leave, how do you 

want to be remembered? What do you want to accomplish? 

Ms. RIOS. I think I have several priorities, if confirmed as the 

U.S. Treasurer. I think this is not the Treasury of our forefathers, 

and I think times have changed significantly, obviously in the last 

year or so. And I think I would like to see some changes in how 

it could be much more strategic, and how we disseminate our information. 

I think it is important to teach our youth about what it means 

to budget. I think there is a way that we could institutionalize our 

financial education starting at the home and, hopefully, in our curriculum. I think that would make a big difference in how we move 

forward. 

So I think there are kind of two parts to this. There is kind of 

the short term in terms of how we educate the public and hopefully 

get to some type of behavior modification on perhaps instant gratification is not the number-one priority. Second, we can help institutionalize that moving forward, so that we could preemptively think 

about how to avoid some of the challenges that we face today. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is a great goal, but how do you implement 

financial literacy education? How do you do it? 

Ms. RIOS. Well, I think there are some programs that are currently in place and also being discussed in terms of how to integrate some curriculum within the schools, within the high school 

level and certainly, hopefully, earlier on. I think it is a great place 

to start. 

And, again, personally I believe in starting at home. If you were 

to ask either of my kids, whenever they ask for something, the first 

thing I tell them is, they need to save for that. They need to think 

about how to get there. And so the goal has started at home for 

me. 

And I think that is a great message to send out, and I think with 

our implementation plans that include public outreach, some public 

service announcements, and again, working very closely with the 

Office of Education, both the other agencies, and also with the private sector, I think there are definitely ways that we can think 

about how we can be a little bit more aggressive in our outreach. 

17 

The CHAIRMAN. Maybe you can partner with Teach for America. 

Ms. RIOS. Absolutely. 

The CHAIRMAN. I think they are a very good program. They are 

going to work with kids in lots of very different parts, some of them 

in all different levels, frankly. 

Ms. RIOS. I will definitely look into that. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Nazario, from 2001 to 2007, the child poverty rate rose from 16.3 percent to 18 percent. Of course, this could 

happen during the recession, but it occured during a period of economic growth. So does that indicate we need to change some of our 

policies relating to disadvantaged families or children? Your 

thoughts on all of that. 

Ms. NAZARIO. Thank you, Senator. I believe that there is a lot 

that can be done to assist the new generations in preparing them, 

investing in new generations and the childhood investments, 

strengthening families, strengthening communities, to learn from 

the experiences that we are having in recent years. Welfare Reform 

was very successful with the families that it touched. 

We need to be sure that no more families join the ranks and that 

we reserve the flexibility and maximize the flexibility that is afforded so that we are able to invest in preventing families from 

joining those ranks and equipping the new generations, the young 

children, to succeed on their own and prevent them from becoming 

dependent. 

The CHAIRMAN. I have gone way over my time. Senator Menendez is here. One question. If you were limited to only one major 

change in TANF—when we go to re-authorize it—what would it be? 

What is the most important change? 

Ms. NAZARIO. I think families need to succeed at work, and they 

also need to have access. They need to have access to be really contributing families of this society to become fully integrated into this 

society. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Senator Menendez? Sorry. Take all the time you want. [Laughter.] 

Senator MENENDEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that, 

but I am not going to need that much time. 

Mr. Chairman, I want to congratulate all of the nominees and 

their families. They are an exceptional group of individuals to do 

some incredibly important jobs. 

I am particularly pleased to see two very qualified Latinas 

among the nominees, particularly in sectors that we do not often 

see, and so I think we are making great progress in our country. 

I would love to see if, as part of the confirmation process, Ms. Rios, 

Joey, would give me some lessons on the tennis court if he is the 

number-one ranked tennis player. 

Ms. RIOS. As long as he loses. 

Senator MENENDEZ. No. No. No. [Laughter.] 

Boy. No, no. We do not have to lose over that. Just a few lessons 

would be helpful. 

I did want to ask both of you questions. The chairman got to part 

of what I wanted to ask you, Ms. Rios. And I think this whole issue 

of financial literacy, based upon what happened in our Nation in 

the last year and a half, shows that, among issues of regulatory reVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:23 Apr 12, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\65296.000 TIMD
18 

form that we were discussing in the Banking Committee, that we 

also need consumers to make wise decisions. And so I do hope that 

as part of—we all talk about financial literacy, but we do not seem 

to have a point of a spear to try to make financial literacy an integrated part. You mentioned curriculum in getting into our schools, 

particularly at a younger and younger age. You talked about families, and that is incredibly important. 

But that is not just going to happen. We need to focus on this. 

And I have worked on some issues on financial literacy and would 

love, when you are confirmed, to work with you, because at the end 

of the day, if individuals are empowered to understand the nature 

of the financial engagements in which they are about to enter, they 

will make better decisions, even in a complex maze. 

And so I hope that we are going to look at a wide range of opportunities. Yes, on education, yes, but also with community-based organizations. Also, with engaging the financial sectors, having them 

understand that there is an obligation, as well. 

Looking at our telecommunications industries to be part of this, 

and the cable industry and others, I just think we need a widerange approach to get people to have a greater understanding of 

the financial decisions they make, which often can be consequential 

in their lives. 

Starting with, we had credit card reform, we had all of this oversolicitation of college students, largely not working, for credit cards, 

and making decisions that may affect their life financially for quite 

some time. So, incredibly important. 

I think that the Treasurer could be one of those entities who 

really moves us in this way, and I hope we can work with you on 

that, and that you do make it a priority, in addition to your other 

duties. 

Ms. Nazario, I would love to hear, and I know you are not on the 

job yet, but I think you have one of the most important jobs, because it involves children and therefore, truly, our future. 

Too many children get left behind in this country today; depending upon the happenstance of what station in life you were born 

into, it can be more challenging. It does not mean that you cannot 

succeed, but it can be much more challenging. 

And so I am wondering, when you talk about focusing on supporting families to achieve economic success, you have some ideas 

on that, and, second, when you talk about striving to improve 

ACF’s institutional capacity in order to ensure making a real difference in the lives of families and children, what are you thinking 

about in broad terms? 

Ms. NAZARIO. Your first question. When we talk about supporting families to succeed at work, we are talking about great 

childcare and development programs, which already the chairman 

has alluded to, that will come up for reauthorization. 

We are very fortunate in what the Congress did with the Recovery Act and the resources that have been brought to bear to assist 

in that area, that for so many years had not an infusion of new resources into it. 

We are talking about determining, what are the occupations that 

are really in demand, even in times of economic distress, and try 

to gear people towards those occupations, service occupations in the 

19 

health field, and helping young people, especially vulnerable single 

parents, to support them into moving into those service areas. 

Working, as the administration has done so well—and there are 

some legislative actions, mainly under fatherhood and other child 

support initiatives, that would assist families so that they will prevent them from joining the ranks of those families receiving TANF. 

Those are the kinds of things that we need. But in doing so, 

doing it with a lot of community support, strengthening communities, the neighborhood partnerships, these are the initiatives that 

the Congress and the administration will be working on that will 

assist in keeping the welfare rolls as low as possible. 

In terms of your second question, I intend, if confirmed, to take 

a broad look, but also an in-depth look, throughout the Agency, to 

look at its operations to see if this is the structure that is best 

working for us. 

Our regional office is equipped in terms of, not just numbers, but 

the type of tools at the disposal of the staff. Do they have the right 

training? What is their job? How are they really supporting States 

and tribes? Do the tribes have the information at their disposal in 

order to really take advantage of the legislation that enables them 

to apply directly and run their own programs, child welfare programs and child support enforcement programs? What do we need 

to do to make sure that capacity is going to stay there after we are 

not there? Those are the kinds of things that I am talking about. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Two final points, if I may, Mr. Chairman. I 

hope you will, and I think you mention in your statement about 

working collaboratively across sectors to enhance outreach. 

Ms. NAZARIO. Absolutely. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Now, I hope we will look at children. When 

I was a mayor, we created a national award-winning program that 

provided daycare for children for mothers who were largely on welfare with training in job sectors that the economy called for at the 

time, while their children were being taken care of by grandmothers who had a lifetime of learning and experience and love to 

give. We had an inter-generational approach that helped to break 

the cycle of poverty. 

I hope that we look at some of these issues with children in a 

holistic way. There is not a single element that, at the end of the 

day, achieves the goal. We can do more of that than less, which 

means not only within your department, but hopefully reaching out 

across, that we can be more successful about making sure that the 

next generation of Americans is going to be as primed and ready 

to fulfill their God-given potentials. I hope you will be part of that 

effort. I have said this to others in different venues. 

And, finally, I hope that we can count on you within the Department to be an advocate for legal permanent resident children to be 

treated the same as all children. I do not quite understand when 

you obey the laws, follow the rules and get treated in a different 

class. And I certainly hope that, particularly within the context of 

your department and the authority that you will have, that we will 

see an advocate for treating legal permanent resident children in 

the same way as we treat all other children. 

Ms. NAZARIO. Certainly, if confirmed, you can count on that, Senator. I am very encouraged by the chairman’s words on the reorgaVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:23 Apr 12, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\65296.000 TIMD
20 

nization of TANF and the child-only cases. That would be a great 

opportunity. Many of the children who are in child-only cases are 

legal residents and American citizens themselves, even if their parents are not. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. I thank all of you. I wish 

you very, very good luck. This is a great sacrifice that you are undertaking, but you are doing it for the right reason. 

I think that the greatest, most noble human endeavor is public 

service—or service, public service or private service. The most 

noble endeavor is service, whatever capacity that each of us is trying to serve, and I think I could tell from all of you that you very 

much share that. I am particularly impressed with you, Ms. Rios, 

and your family that you have raised. They are going places, those 

kids. [Laughter.] 

And good luck everybody. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:04 a.m., the hearing was concluded.] 

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65296094.eps