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25–558PDF 2017

VIOLENCE OUTSIDE THE TURKISH AMBASSADOR’S

RESIDENCE: THE RIGHT TO PEACEFUL PROTEST

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, EURASIA, AND 

EMERGING THREATS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

MAY 25, 2017

Serial No. 115–36

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

PAUL COOK, California 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois 

LEE M. ZELDIN, New York 

DANIEL M. DONOVAN, JR., New York 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., 

Wisconsin 

ANN WAGNER, Missouri 

BRIAN J. MAST, Florida 

FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida 

BRIAN K. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

THOMAS A. GARRETT, JR., Virginia 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

AMI BERA, California 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

NORMA J. TORRES, California 

BRADLEY SCOTT SCHNEIDER, Illinois 

THOMAS R. SUOZZI, New York 

ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York 

TED LIEU, California

AMY PORTER, Chief of Staff THOMAS SHEEHY, Staff Director

JASON STEINBAUM, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, EURASIA, AND EMERGING THREATS

DANA ROHRABACHER, California, Chairman 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

TED POE, Texas 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., 

Wisconsin 

FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida 

BRIAN K. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

Ms. Lusik Usoyan, founder and president, Ezidi Relief Fund ............................. 6

Mr. Murat Yasa, local businessman and protest organizer ................................. 11

Mr. Aram Hamparian, executive director, Armenian National Committee of 

America ................................................................................................................. 17

Ms. Ruth Wedgwood, Edward B. Burling professor of international law and 

diplomacy, School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University ................................................................................................................... 22

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

Ms. Lusik Usoyan: Prepared statement ................................................................ 9

Mr. Murat Yasa: Prepared statement .................................................................... 13

Mr. Aram Hamparian: Prepared statement .......................................................... 19

Ms. Ruth Wedgwood: Prepared statement ............................................................ 24

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 36

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 37

The Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, a Representative in Congress from the 

Commonwealth of Virginia: Prepared statement .............................................. 38

(1)

VIOLENCE OUTSIDE THE TURKISH 

AMBASSADOR’S RESIDENCE: THE 

RIGHT TO PEACEFUL PROTEST 

THURSDAY, MAY 25, 2017

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, EURASIA, AND EMERGING THREATS,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:00 p.m., in room 

2200 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Dana Rohrabacher 

(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I call this meeting of the Europe, Eurasia, 

and Emerging Threats Subcommittee to order. 

Apologies to my colleagues for the short notice that we have 

given them but, due to the emergency nature of what has occurred, 

I believe strongly that we need to be heard on the record as soon 

as possible. 

Nine days ago on May 16th, the President Turkey was visiting 

in Washington on a formal visit to the United States. It was during 

that trip that a group of American protesters that were concerned 

about the growing repression by the Erdogan regime in Turkey, 

gathered outside the residence of the Turkish Ambassador to exercise their right, as Americans, to have a peaceful assembly and to 

express their opinions. 

Incredibly, security officers associated directly with the President, President Erdogan, his nominal body guards, broke past police lines and unashamedly attacked peaceful protesters in view of 

all the rest of us Americans. 

The video of this ghoulish and fascistic attempt is appalling. At 

least 11 innocent Americans were bloodied and some of the Turkish 

security members were so brazen as to also scuffle with U.S. law 

enforcement personnel who were there trying to tone done the 

melee. 

Furthermore, video evidence suggests that President Erdogan, 

himself, looked on as the attack took place. I find it hard to believe 

that well-trained security officials would watch such an explosive, 

unprovoked attack without the orders of their superior, especially 

knowing he was going to be there to witness it. 

The attempt by members of the Turkish security service is an affront to the democratic values that we hold dear in the United 

States and was an act of supreme disrespect for the American people and our institutions. 

2

This situation has only been made worse by the ongoing reaction 

by the Turkish Government, which summoned the U.S. Ambassador in Ankara, summoned to him to protest the actions of American law enforcement, as if it was aggressive. 

Well, that, to have a president of a country, from another country, who watched his bully boys beat Americans into the ground 

and bloody them, and for him to protest our people, that is a supreme insult and I hope all Americans understand the message 

that he is giving us. 

I will refrain from using a hand gesture of what he is giving us 

but we have a message for him: We don’t need people like you visiting the United States anymore. You don’t represent your people. 

When we want to talk to the Turks, we want to talk to Turks who 

want to have a democratic society and not to their oppressor and 

a man who is trying to create Islamofascism in his own country 

with him as the head fascist. 

This arrogance is beyond the pale. Erdogan should never again 

be invited to the United States. He is an enemy of everything we 

stand for. More importantly, he’s an enemy of his own people and 

we should side with the people of Turkey, not their oppressor. Perhaps such an incident would not be so offensive, except that it fits 

a pattern of broader political violence and suppression that has 

come to characterize the current Turkish Government, both at 

home and abroad. 

I remind everyone that a similar incident occurred during President Erdogan’s previous visit to Washington. Last March, while 

Erdogan spoke at a Brookings Foundation, his guards attacked protesters and journalists trying to cover the event. The repressive 

and authoritarian nature of the Erdogan Government has been developing and just basically becoming into being right in front of our 

eyes. A country that has been such a long friend of the United 

States, the people of Turkey who stood with us during the Cold 

War, when it was very risky to do so. And yes, the Soviet Union 

was pumping, at that time, millions of dollars into destabilized 

Turkey at that time but they stood with us. And now to have this 

leader, supposed leader, basically declaring that friendship is over 

and declaring that his people no longer have those democratic 

rights that they have enjoyed for these years, well, it is totally unacceptable. 

And again, I am very proud that today we have a piece of legislation that is going through and will be quickly put before the body, 

as soon as we return in about a week. 

So with that said, my friend, Mr. Cicilline, will be having his 

opening statement. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for calling this meeting today and for giving us the chance to explore in detail what 

happened at the Turkish Ambassador’s residence on May 16th, just 

a little over a week ago when President Erdogan’s so-called security forces rudely assaulted peaceful protesters. 

I want to thank our witnesses for being here today and to note 

that Ms. Usoyan, Mr. Yasa, and Mr. Hamparian were in attendance at the protest and will be sharing their firsthand accounts of 

what happened with us today. And I am glad that none of you were 

seriously injured in the incident on the 16th. And I thank all of you 

3

for being with us, as well as Professor Wedgwood for being here 

today to discuss this incident and how it will affect U.S.-Turkish 

relations going forward. 

President Erdogan of Turkey recently consolidated his own control in a referendum giving him sweeping authority, as we all 

know, recently made an official visit to the United States to meet 

with President Trump. In that meeting, the two leaders discussed 

a variety of mutual interests, including the fight against ISIS, the 

failed coup plot against Erdogan last year, and other mutual interests. 

I think it is important to note, to point out one thing that, by 

all accounts, was not discussed and that is Turkey’s ongoing crackdown against fundamental freedoms, including freedom of the press 

and peaceful assembly. At no time did President Trump raise concerns about the crackdown being carried out by the Erdogan regime against dissidents, journalists, minorities, and anyone who 

speaks out against his government’s abuses. 

Later that same day, President Erdogan was leaving the Turkish 

Ambassador’s residence when his guards became involved in an altercation with peaceful protesters, violently attacking Americans 

and others who were exercising their right to free speech on U.S. 

soil. 

Multiple videos from the scene showed Turkish security forces 

beating, kicking, and otherwise assaulting protesters, with the DC 

Police officers attempting to break up the altercation. I understand 

we are going to see some of the video before this committee in just 

a few minutes. At least 11 individuals were seriously injured in the 

attack, with two requiring hospitalization. 

Equally disturbing is the video that appears to show President 

Erdogan surveying the scene of protesters in front of him, then verbally encouraging his guards to attack. It is my understanding that 

two Turkish security officers were detained in relation to their involvement in this incident but were then released, due to diplomatic immunity. I also understand that there is still an active investigation into the incident by the Washington, DC Police Force. 

Our State Department and Secretary Tillerson have rightfully 

condemned this egregious action by Turkish security forces and 

have called the Turkish Ambassador in to raise their concerns. 

These are good first steps but by no means do they resolve this 

issue. 

There are a few steps that absolutely must be taken as followup to this horrific incident. The United States Government should 

request a waiver of immunity for anyone involved in the violent attack against peaceful protesters. The U.S. Government must make 

clear that we expect full cooperation by the Turkish Government 

into the investigation of this crime. The U.S. Government must 

make clear to Turkey and any other government who wishes to 

have a presence in the United States that our laws, including the 

freedom of speech and assembly are the binding laws of the land 

when they are on U.S. soil. And officials of the U.S. Government, 

including the President and Secretary of State Tillerson must make 

it clear that the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to free speech and freedom of assembly 

4

are American values and will be prioritized in our relationships 

with every country with whom we have relations. 

To close, I want to emphasize that freedom, dignity, and equality 

are not just American values, they are universal values that every 

person deserves, no matter where they are born. This idea that we 

can somehow leave our values at our shore’s edge to focus on other 

priorities is inherently false. Our values make us who we are; they 

guide how we live our lives and how we interact in the world. 

The United States is a global leader precisely because people everywhere strive to achieve the freedoms that are afforded to us in 

our Constitution. When our top leaders say things such as we are 

not here to lecture or we don’t expect others to adopt our values, 

it debases who we are, and the very ideals that form our democracy, and it has dire consequences. 

I don’t pretend that the Turkish Government has suddenly 

changed its tune because of the words of a few Government officials. They have been behaving badly on our soil for years. But this 

was a particularly brazen act on the heels of a highly publicized 

meeting with our President and one has to wonder why President 

Erdogan felt so emboldened that in the bright DC sunshine, in 

front of cameras and hundreds of people, he sent his attack dogs 

out. 

As Secretary Tillerson said, this is simply unacceptable. Now, we 

must decide how we are going to respond as a country and as government representatives to this brazen assault on our people and 

our values. I think that the resolution that was passed by the full 

Foreign Affairs Committee this morning condemning this is an excellent start and I look forward to working with my colleagues to 

determine the appropriate reaction going forward. 

And again, I thank the chairman for calling this meeting and I 

yield back. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. And Mr. Brad Sherman for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Thank you. 

This was not just an attack on American values, on international 

values of human rights, this was an attack on American sovereignty. Quasi-military forces of a foreign nation beat and attacked Americans on American soil. This was deliberate because 

Erdogan believes that this helps him politically back in Turkey. We 

have to demonstrate to the world that aggression on American soil 

is not going to pay off. We need to do more than just condemn what 

happened, not only recently but, as others have pointed out, at 

Brookings as well. 

First, we have got to stop—we have got to emphasize that unless 

we get a formal apologize from Erdogan, himself, we will not even 

discuss with them their concerns about the YPG. We have already 

decided that these valuable allies in the fight against ISIS will get 

American arms. But the people of Turkey have to understand that 

we are not even willing to listen to a government that attacks 

Americans on American soil and brags about it, and boasts about 

it, and tries to benefit from it back in its own country. 

The second thing we should do is prohibit the purchase or sale 

of the debt of the Turkish Government by Americans or American 

5

banks, and financial institutions, and exchanges, again, until we 

get a formal apology from Erdogan. 

I realize such an apology might be politically difficult for him. 

That is the point. We have to illustrate this or we will have other 

leaders attacking Americans, both in their countries and in ours, 

for their own political reasons. 

Why was Erdogan so emboldened? Because we have had an 

American Government that has cowered for generations, rather 

than recognize the Armenian genocide. If we are so weak that we 

are a party to genocide denial, who should respect our laws, or our 

sovereignty, or think that they will pay any price for anything they 

do here in our country? 

Finally, the actions of those thugs have been compounded by the 

lies of the Turkish Ambassador. Keep in mind Erdogan was never 

in any danger whatsoever. The protesters were peaceful; they did 

not provoke any pro-Erdogan demonstrators. The statement of the 

Ambassador to the contrary is a lie on top of physical aggression 

and he should be asked to leave our country immediately. 

So this is really a test for the United States. We know who 

Erdogan is. The question is: Who are we? Will we continue to be 

coward on the issue of the events of 1915 to 1923? Will we continue 

to walk on eggshells when we have a valuable ally in the fight 

against ISIS? And will we continue to see American banking institutions finance the Turkish Government at a time when Erdogan 

is able to extract political benefit from this attack on America? 

We will see how we respond. The resolution we passed in committee today needs to be just the first step. 

I yield back. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you, Mr. Sherman. 

And I will introduce the witnesses now, and then we will show 

the video, and then we will return to the witnesses. I would hope 

that 5 minutes max—we all have to be out of here no later than 

two o’clock. So, we all need to watch the schedule on this. And 

again, I will introduce the witnesses, and then we will see the 

video, and then go to the testimony. 

As witnesses today, we have three people and we have just been 

joined by a fourth who were present outside the Turkish Ambassador’s residence on the 16th. Ms. Lucy Usoyan is a founder and 

president of the Ezidi Relief Fund, an organization which advocates 

for refugees and displaced persons in the region. She was severely 

beaten and, I understand, she is now, just now recovering. 

Mr. Murat Yasa is a local small business owner and an organizer 

within the Kurdish community. He was involved in leading some 

of the protests that took place during President Erdogan’s visit. He, 

too, received a pummeling by members of the Turkish Security 

Service for his efforts. 

And Mr. Aram Hamparian, I hope I pronounced it correctly. 

Okay, he is the executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America, a political organization that represents the interests of Armenian-American community. He, too, was present for 

the attack on the 16th. 

Finally, we have Ms. Ruth Wedgwood, a professor of international law and diplomacy at Johns Hopkins University School of 

Advanced International Studies. She has served on the U.S. SecVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:48 Jul 04, 2017 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Z:\WORK\_EEET\052517\25558 SHIRL
6

retary of State’s Advisory Committee on Private and Public International Law and she was a U.S. delegate to the U.N. Human 

Rights Committee and a member of the Pentagon Defense Policy 

Advisory Board, among many other things. She has earned her 

juris doctorate from Yale University and we are very, very grateful 

that on short notice she was able to join us. 

Now with that, I think I would draw attention to my colleagues 

and to those who have come to the hearing today to the video 

which was compiled—how was this compiled? The people who were 

there, I believe this is from hand-held telephone cameras. Isn’t it 

wonderful that we have that these days? 

Aram, did you take the video? 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. Some of it is from Voice of America and others 

from my cell phone. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Okay, all I know is that I believe that the 

iPhone has done a lot to perfect our country by holding our law enforcement people accountable and also to protect our law enforcement people against unjust charges. 

So with that said, here it is. 

[Video shown.] 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Jesus. Look how courageous they are. Jesus. 

Is that it? Let me note that there was one video that I saw that 

wasn’t included in this that had a picture of Erdogan, himself, observing this attack. 

All of us should understand this is the United States of America. 

This is not Turkey. 

This foreign leader, who treats his own people this way should 

understand that we are demanding an apology to these people, 

these Americans who were beaten here in the United States. And 

this is the way—if you think he is treating our people this way, 

how do you think he treats his own people? We know that. And he 

has taken a friendly country filled with people who like the United 

States and are friends of ours and turned them into prisoners and 

turned them into victims that we cannot ignore. We are on the side 

of a democratic Turkey and not this fascist, Islamic fascist dictatorship that Erdogan is superimposing on this people with that kind 

of violence. 

Now, with that said, we will go to our witnesses. Again, we have 

got about 5 minutes a piece and 5 minutes for questions because 

we have got to be out of here at two o’clock. That gives us 11⁄2

hours. 

So, Ms. Lucy Usoyan, who I have already introduced. 

STATEMENT OF MS. LUSIK USOYAN, FOUNDER AND 

PRESIDENT, EZIDI RELIEF FUND 

Ms. USOYAN. Thank you so much. Well, with given opportunity 

I would like to first express my gratitude to Chairman Dana Rohrabacher, and Chairman Ed Royce, and all ranking members for 

sponsoring this hearing in such a short time frame. 

As a citizen of United States of America, I feel very confident for 

my rights and I am honored to be here to testify on the peaceful 

protest attacked on May 16. 

On May 16th, I was among those peaceful protesters by exercising my freedom of speech. I was expressing my personal opinion 

7

on President Erdogan’s White House welcome event. I believe that 

individuals like Mr. Erdogan, who systematically abuse his authority by violating human rights, oppressing press, imprisoned second 

largest opposition party, both co-chairs and its members, committing war crimes, and strongly supporting ISIS terrorist group has 

no space in the White House of United States of America. 

I am an Ezidi Kurd dissident by origin and my Ezidi people have 

suffered significantly in the aftermath of the ISIS attack on Sinjar 

District on August 2014. Moreover, March 2016 Erdogan’s visit to 

Washington, DC, he had an event at Brookings Institute, where I 

and many Armenians, Syrians, Greeks, and Kurds had joined to a 

peaceful protest. As a result of Erdogan’s angriness, he has contacted President of Azerbaijan, Aliyev, to attack Armenian Artsakh 

for 4 days. 

In the aftermath of 4 days’ attack, around 80 Armenian soldiers 

were killed and one was Ezidi origin soldier. He was beheaded by 

Ezidi soldiers and he happened to be my cousin. 

So, I have many rights to express my angerness with Erdogan’s 

abusive behavior. I was part of the peaceful protesters in the front 

of the White House. And once the event was over, me and others, 

we have walked toward Massachusetts Avenue to Turkish Ambassador’s residency. 

There was a large group of people in front of Turkish Ambassador’s residency. As soon as we arrived, we began to hear cursings 

toward us and screamings at us. I could tell that the atmosphere 

became very tense, once the pro-Erdogan group saw us. 

Police just asked to stay where we are and we stood and simply 

began our chantings, as we did in front of the White House. I could 

tell that we didn’t have enough police officers right away. There 

was about five or so police officers but they were doing their best 

job. 

And as we were chanting, I saw another group of about five people merging into existing group, pro-Erdogan’s group, and running 

toward us. Those people were dressed differently. They were wearing dark sunglasses, and hacky t-shirts under unbuttoned shirts. 

They were wearing military boots, I think. 

And I saw water bottles were thrown to us, one of which hit my 

leg and I felt hurt. It hurt as if something was burning my leg. And 

I saw cell phones flying around. It happened very quickly. I didn’t 

have a chance to think, to run away, or to protect myself. 

The next thing I know, I was on the ground and someone was 

kicking me in the head. I remember only one thought. I thought 

okay, I am on the ground; I don’t even try to protect myself; what 

is the purpose of beating me? But then I lost unconscious. 

When I opened my eyes I think it was over. I tried to get up but 

my legs were very heavy. I don’t know why. I believe police officer 

helped me to get up or sit and I felt a massive headache and pain 

around my neck, and back, and head. I got shocked when I saw my 

friends’ bloodied face. 

That evening, I spent in George Washington Hospital, as well as 

all other injured, which were about eight or nine. The doctor gave 

me a pain killer and recommended to do a CAT scan to check my 

head condition but I refused because I don’t have insurance yet. 

8

The next morning, I opened my eyes and I feel extremely dizzy. 

I closed my eyes but it just got worse. And I tried to get up in my 

room but I just collapsed. And I am very thankful to my friends 

who came and visited me. They convinced me and they took me to 

the hospital. As a result, I end up in E.R. to the George Washington again and I was diagnosed with minor brain injury. The doctor says that I have bruises on my brain. 

So, it will take me 6 weeks to recover. I think my time is over. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Usoyan follows:]

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Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Yasa. 

STATEMENT OF MR. MURAT YASA, LOCAL BUSINESSMAN AND 

PROTEST ORGANIZER 

Mr. YASA. Good afternoon Chairman Rohrabacher and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me 

to testify today about the brutal attack on peaceful protesters, including myself, by Turkish security forces outside the Turkish Ambassador’s residence on May 16, 2017. 

I am proud father of U.S.-born children. My biggest accomplishment has been to provide my children the freedom and security 

that I was deprived of as a child in Turkey. So, imagine my disappointment and heartbreak when Erdogan and Turkish bodyguards violently attacked me for exercising my right to freedom of 

assembly on American soil. 

As somebody that takes pride in the fundamental American values, it was hard for me to explain to my children why I was attacked and why Erdogan’s goons were able to escape the U.S. without any justice. 

For the past 30 years, I have attended countless protests because 

it is my right as an American citizen to do so. On Tuesday, May 

16, 2017, I woke up early and I made my way into DC. I was there 

to protest against Erdogan as he visited the White House. I was 

there to protest against his direct attack on Kurds in Turkey. I was 

there to protest against unlawful imprisonment of Kurdish opposition. I was there to exercise my First Amendment Right. I was 

there as an American citizen. 

Thereafter, a small number of us decided to continue our protest 

in front of the Turkish Ambassador’s residence. We arrived there 

at approximately 2:45 p.m. There was 15 of us on the sidewalk 

across the Ambassador’s residence. Among us were women and 

children under the age of seven. Just briefly after arriving, we 

began our protest and condemned Erdogan for his direct attack on 

the Kurds and the Kurdish children. 

One of our slogans was dedicated to Mr. Selahattin Demirtas, 

who is the co-chair of the pro-Kurdish political opposition in Turkey. Mr. Demirtas has been unlawfully arrested and is still waiting 

for trial while in jail since November 2016. 

Our posters were pictures of Mr. Demirtas. Our slogans were 

‘‘freedom for Demirtas.’’ Meanwhile, the pro-Erdogan supporters 

gathered across from us, across the street, were using insulting and 

vulgar words directed at us and children. After a verbal altercation, 

two pro-Erdogan supporters crossed the sidewalk and made their 

way into the street ready to attack us. The DC Police were able to 

intervene before the conflict escalated and attempted to get them 

back on the sidewalk. 

Thereafter, the police remained in front of the Turkish protesters 

and tried to prevent them from attacking us. But after a few minutes, Erdogan’s bodyguards, dressed in black suits and ties, pushed 

their way through the DC Police and attacked our group. 

Erdogan’s bodyguards were joined by the Turkish security personnel, as well as supporters. There was more than 50 of them, 

12

some armed, but all were ready to attack. They came at us with 

such a force that even the DC Police——

Well, let me get into the detail of the attacking. Whey they attacked, three, four of them, and I saw the lady, Ms. Usoyan, was 

next to me, one of them has grabbed her and started to punch her 

face and kicking. And I tried to cover her, tried to cover her head 

but I couldn’t and I fell down. Four of them jumped on me. As you 

see on the picture, I am the one carrying the megaphone. And they 

kicked me one after another on my face. And I tried to get up but 

I couldn’t and I realized that they are not going to let me get up 

and respond. So, I just tried to cover my head and I was unconscious. I don’t know how long I was there. 

When I get up, I saw it is bleeding all over and then the police 

officer, they have me. 

My time is over. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Yasa follows:]

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Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you, very much. 

Mr. Hamparian. 

STATEMENT OF MR. ARAM HAMPARIAN, EXECUTIVE 

DIRECTOR, ARMENIAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE OF AMERICA 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. Thank you, Chairman Rohrabacher, for your 

very powerful and principle leadership on this issue. Congressman 

Cicilline, and Congressman Sherman, thank you as well. 

I have submitted a written statement and will touch on a few 

points in my spoken testimony. 

Last Tuesday’s attack was, at its heart, not just an attack 

against Americans but an attack on American values. The facts of 

the attack, as well as last year’s assault at the Brookings Institute 

are well-known to the subcommittee, as is Turkish record of aggression at home and abuse as well. 

As has been noted, I participated in the peaceful protest at Sheridan Circle and was a witness to the brutal assault. I was able to 

videotape much of it and share it with CNN, and the Associated 

Press, and others. 

Rarely, if ever, has a foreign government’s attack against peaceful protesters on American soil been so thoroughly documented or 

so well-reported. Thankfully, as the chairman noted, because of 

vital video and social media, President Erdogan, today, is finding 

he can’t sweep this under the rug or explain it away with the help 

of his P.R. people, his apologists, or his well-paid lobbyists. 

Having, by all accounts ordered this attack, he has gone on the 

offensive now, calling in our Ambassador and falsely accusing U.S. 

law enforcement of aggressive actions. What he ordered on the 

streets of our capital here in Washington, DC provides a small insight, but a very chilling insight, into the depth and the depravity 

of the violence visited every day upon citizens of Turkey out of our 

city and away from our cameras. Imagine how bad that is, if this 

is what they wanted to do in Washington, DC. 

These are the facts. This is pretty much where we are. We are, 

I think, as Americans, at a moment of reckoning on this issue, not 

simply about Erdogan but ourselves. We know who Erdogan is. 

Now it is time for him to understand who we are. 

This hearing, Mr. Chairman, is certainly about foreign policy. 

This is the Foreign Affairs Committee but, at a more fundamental 

level, it is about our shared American commitment to our First 

Amendment and our freedoms. 

The question before us is how will we respond to Ankara exporting its intolerance and violence to our shores. How will we respond 

to Erdogan’s unapologetic attempt to bully Americans as he has 

bullied his own citizens? How will we answer Erdogan’s arrogance? 

His attempts now, and these are disgraceful, to have us throw, 

have Americans throw our people, our police, and even our principles under the bus to avoid offending his irrational and hateful 

sensitivities is simply unacceptable. We cannot do that to the brave 

officers who sought to defend the protesters or the Americans who 

simply sought to give voice to their views. 

The choice is ours. I would humbly and respectfully offer a couple 

of suggestions. One is that President Trump can break his silence 

18

on the issue and forcefully condemn this attack on peaceful protesters in our nation’s capital. 

Our Government, including our Department of Justice, should 

fully investigate and criminally prosecute the attackers, demanding 

that Turkey issue a blanket waiver of diplomatic immunity for all 

involved in this assault up and down the chain of command. 

Last Tuesday, let’s be clear, last Tuesday was a crime. It was not 

a conflict. Multiple felonies committed on film in plain sight of U.S. 

law enforcement. 

The administration should, as Senator McCain and others have 

recommended, exercise our right to immediately expel Turkey’s 

Ambassador from the U.S. This would represent both an expression 

of our national outrage but also a reaffirmation of our commitment 

to freedom of expression. 

Legislatively, we look forward to the passage of H. Res. 354, 

which the committee favorably reported this morning and that has 

the support of the chairman and also the full committee chairman, 

Mr. Royce, and the bipartisanship of the House. 

We also, and this speaks to what Congressman Sherman said, we 

should also encourage the adoption of H. Res. 220, a bipartisan 

measure seeking simply to apply the lessons of Turkey’s genocide 

against the Armenians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, and other Christians, in order to prevent future atrocities. 

Again, let’s be very clear on this point. The same Recep Erdogan 

who attacks our people and disrespects our police is allowed to set 

U.S. policy on the Armenian genocide. This foreign dictator is the 

guy who green lights or stop lights whether or not Americans can 

speak out on a human rights issue and that is disgraceful. 

He has been allowed, and this is disgraceful as well, President 

Erdogan has been allowed to revel, to revel in the spectacle of armtwisting Americans into silence on a known case of genocide documented in our own archives. He has bullied us into silence on our 

history and now he has his values in our sites. It must stop and 

it must stop here. 

In closing, let me thank you again, Chairman Rohrabacher, for 

your tremendous leadership on this issue. Let me also say that the 

public scrutiny is the best remedy for these types of things and, for 

that reason, this hearing is so very welcomed. Thank you, sir. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hamparian follows:]

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Mr. ROHRABACHER. That is why you wanted to have the Assyrian 

right away and let it sink into people’s memory. 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Ms. Wedgwood. 

STATEMENT OF MS. RUTH WEDGWOOD, EDWARD B. BURLING 

PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL LAW AND DIPLOMACY, 

SCHOOL OF ADVANCED INTERNATIONAL STUDIES, JOHNS 

HOPKINS UNIVERSITY 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for convening this enormously important and very timely hearing. 

I used to be a prosecutor. I thought I was pretty tough, even 

when I was five-foot tall. And I was not particularly merciful to all 

of my defendants but I did think that I was doing something, not 

just in taking people off the street for its own sake, but deterring 

other people in engaging in like episodes. And I almost was killed, 

at one point, when the FALN bombed the Federal courthouse in 

1982, when I was preparing my first RICO case. And my husband 

and I were there. We should have been goners but, happily, the 

bridge made of concrete quelled the blast. 

So, I know what it is, indeed, and I deeply sympathize with my 

colleagues here who have felt that they were at the brink of death 

because it is a possible event for human beings. 

As a prosecutor, certainly we did everything we could to try to 

quell terrorist groups with RICO and other measures. But I do 

think that to send the message now to Turkey, there does need to 

be fairly dramatic, demonstrative measures taken. Whether it 

hurts our tourist trade or not, I don’t really care. I think this is 

a guy who is a thug; he’s a gumba. He is not an ordinary human 

being. He has decided to be a bully. One could make the surmise 

that if he bullies individual people, he will tend to bully the region. 

Would he be a reliable ally? No. Does there have to be a change 

of leadership? Yes. I don’t know how you do that. We have many 

modalities. We have sanctions. We have had other ways in the 

past. 

The Turks have always been mistreated, I think, in Germany by 

not being allowed to naturalized. I have always been in favor of allowing them to naturalize in Germany but it is going to be much 

harder to make that argument if Turkey, itself, is so grotesquely 

mistreating people who fall into its power. 

I know that it is complicated to quell ISIS and that there the 

kind of Game of Thrones that one has to play to keep alliances together is very, very tricky. But this kind of inconceivable, unabashed kvelling, if I may use a Yiddish word, kind of brutality 

will be copied by other countries around the world, too, if they see 

that it takes and it is effective. 

So, if you want a China that is not particularly more outrageous 

than usual on human rights and civil liberties, then you have to 

do something about Erdogan. And that goes throughout the region; 

Duterte and the Philippines have become very difficult. There is a 

copycat effect in the moral politics of human rights. 

So I would, indeed, endorse what the chairman has done of treating this with the utmost sobriety and making it plain to President 

23

Donald Trump that he can’t be best buds with this guy; no skiing, 

no bowling, no hugs, rather, I would PNG him. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Wedgwood follows:]

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Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. 

Mr. POE. Tell us what you really think. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. We will have Mr. Cicilline and then I will 

recognize Judge Poe, who has just joined us, and then Mr. Sherman, and I will do the wrap-up. And I would ask for 5 minutes 

each, if I can. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you, again to our witnesses and I am very 

sorry that you had the experience that you had and seeing it on 

the video makes it even more disturbing. 

I think it is worth noting again that the response given by the 

Turkish Embassy was not only inaccurate, it was horrifying because it attempted to blame you, the victims, and others for the 

conduct of these security forces. And so it compounds the offense 

to this country and to citizens of America. 

I want to first just ask the witnesses who were there and observed this, did any of you actually seen President Erdogan, either 

before, during, or after the attack? Did anyone actually see him? 

Mr. YASA. The position we were, we would never be able to see 

him. 

Mr. CICILLINE. You wouldn’t have been able to see him, okay. 

Mr. YASA. But we realized that when he arrived, there was a 

noise came from his supporters and we understood he was there. 

Mr. CICILLINE. And were able to see, any of you, where the 

attackers, the men in the dark suits, went after the attack? 

Ms. USOYAN. Where did they go? 

Mr. CICILLINE [continuing]. They go after the attack? 

Ms. USOYAN. They came to attack us. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Right and then after it was over, did you see 

where they went? 

Ms. USOYAN. They went back to the Turkish Ambassador’s residency. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Okay. 

Ms. USOYAN. Actually, they were in a very harsh conflict with 

DC Police officers. 

Mr. CICILLINE. And you actually saw them go back into the residence of the Turkish Ambassador? 

Ms. USOYAN. Yes because I was asking police officers why do you 

guys don’t arrest these people; you eye-witnessed this. And one police officer has asked me to identify some of them who I really remember and I identified some of them. But while I was identifying 

I could hear them screaming at some other police officers, yelling 

at them, saying you guys can’t do your job and not competent. 

Mr. CICILLINE. And that day or subsequent to that day, have 

each of you been in contact or have been interviewed by the DC 

Police Department? 

Ms. USOYAN. Yes, I have. 

Mr. YASA. Yes. 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. Yes, and we have provided evidence to the Secret Service and the DC Police. 

Mr. CICILLINE. I do think that it is important to make mention 

that, as we think about the veracity of statements coming out of 

the Turkish Embassy, we must be reminded of the refusal of the 

Turkish Government to acknowledge the Armenian genocide. It 

calls into question not only their treatment of the three witnesses 

27

we have heard from but their willingness to accept the truth and 

to share that and so it should maybe not be surprising but it is still 

disappointing to see the statement that the Turkish Ambassador 

issued. And I appreciate you coming before this committee today 

and sharing your firsthand accounts of what is a deplorable incident and something that we have responsibility to address in a 

very, very serious way. 

Professor Wedgwood, my first question really is can you help us 

understand what legal recourse we have against the Turkish 

guards who were involved in this attack? Will all of them be protected by diplomatic immunity and is there a mechanism for Turkey to waive that immunity, if they wanted to? 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. If Turkey wants to offer the conceit, the fiction 

that this was not authorized from the top, then they would waive 

the immunity. They would say these were guys out on a holiday; 

they were having some fun; they got carried away; and, therefore, 

we waive their immunity. That would discourage other people in 

the security services from ever taking that role again, by the way. 

Mr. CICILLINE. So, in other words, if the actions that these 

guards took was not authorized by the President of the country or 

its official, then they do not enjoy diplomatic immunity? 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. First, the lower down the food chain you get, 

the less immunity you have. So, permanent representatives at the 

U.N. or ambassadors get absolute full-tilt immunity. As you go 

down the rank order of the ordinary structure of an embassy, you 

get to official acts immunity pretty quickly. So a cook or a driver, 

at best, would have official acts immunity. 

One can make the argument none of this was official acts. Official acts are where you go across the street and you accidently 

stumble and hit a woman on your way vote at the General Assembly. But deliberate malicious attacks like this, these are not official 

acts. 

Mr. CICILLINE. So doesn’t that argue for charging these offices 

and letting them claim and prove that they are entitled to diplomatic immunity? 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. I might be inclined to have a little—I don’t 

mean this in the way it is going to sound—fun just to take what 

happens to an ordinary perp when he’s arrested. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Right. 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. And then we can have a debate in court and it 

will go up to the Supremes on whether or not they are immune. 

But that, itself, is a very important kind of political—I don’t use 

the word theater advisedly but it is an expose of the vulgarity of 

what they did. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you very much. I yield back. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. We are now joined by distinguished jurist but 

also a great member of the United States Congress from Texas, 

Judge Poe. 

Mr. POE. I thank the chairman and thank all of you all for being 

here. All of you all is plural to y’all, in case you were wondering. 

Being from Texas, I just wanted to tell you our language. 

This episode that occurred against you three and the other protesters just makes me so mad that this would occur in the United 

States. How ironic it is that you are out there protesting and demVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:48 Jul 04, 2017 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Z:\WORK\_EEET\052517\25558 SHIRL
28

onstrating for basic civil rights in Turkey and Erdogan and his Gestapo gang come over here and try to prevent you from having 

basic civil rights in the United States. I find that appalling. 

I mean I am a former judge. Don’t hold that against me. But you 

know a constitution is a big deal. We are unique among nations because we have this concept of the Bill of Rights. And the First 

Amendment is first because it is the most important amendment. 

And the right to free speech and peaceably assemble are both in 

the First Amendment, two of the five. And I am convinced they are 

there because that First Amendment is the most important. If you 

don’t have that one, you don’t have the rest of them. 

And so I find this very disturbing. What I saw on the video is 

what most people did see, that all of a sudden, here comes this 

gang of folks and start beating up people who are just exercising 

the First Amendment in the United States. 

And I find it reprehensible that a tyrant from another country 

would come to the United States and violate our basic Constitution 

so flagrantly. And I saw him in the video and he is looking at what 

is taking place. And then he casually goes on into the embassy for 

supper or whatever they were doing. 

So, it seems to me that there needs to be some consequences. 

And on the diplomatic level, I am not sure what they ought to be. 

I have been called a lot of things but I have never been called diplomat. And I find this something that we just have to deal with—

foreign power in the United States violating the First Amendment 

of the Constitution. That is a big deal when that happens and you 

can prosecute all the cases, as far as I am concerned. Ms. Wedgwood, you’d be glad to do that. 

Do any of you believe or know that the attack was ordered by 

Erdogan or was it made by a decision of the security folks. Do any 

of you know that? Does anyone want to answer that? 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. I can tell you at the time I felt, I was convinced 

that an order was given and the guys attacked because it felt like 

that. There was a tension in the air and then someone pulled a 

trigger and the attack started. But that is all I knew. It was just 

a feeling from the other side of the street. 

And then when I watched the video of President Erdogan’s 

guards and some journalists did like a frame-by-frame analysis, 

and they did some audio analysis where they pulled—played with 

the audio in order to be able to hear exactly what was being said, 

and that confirmed in my mind my hunch that this was ordered. 

And it seemed very much, from the video, that the word came 

from the car, where President Erdogan was sitting, to his advisor, 

to a bodyguard, and then boom, all within 5 seconds. 

Mr. YASA. In Turkish, he says [speaking foreign language.] 

means this is what he says. He says, attack, attack in that video. 

So, we have no doubt that the order comes directly from 

Erdogan. 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. And at a minimum, he could have turned it off 

right away and he didn’t. 

Mr. POE. Well, that is what I was saying. He is standing there 

watching it. Rather than say stop, he goes into the embassy or the 

Ambassador’s house, like just utter contempt for protesters. 

29

Are the three of you all going back out there and protesting some 

more in front of the Turkish Embassy? 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. Judge, if you are there, we have your back. We 

will be there any day, any time, night or day. 

Mr. CICILLINE. He already offered in the Foreign Affairs Committee to go jointly. 

Mr. POE. We got a lot of yays in the Foreign Affairs Committee 

to go back out there with you and protest, mainly protesting the 

denial of free speech. 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. I think simply the presence of Members of Congress in that circle at any time, at a time that works for the Members, even if it is a short visit, it would be so powerful and so symbolic. Offer some remarks and, basically, remind the Turkish Government that that soil is American soil. 

I felt very strongly—this is a hunch I had, again on the day of—

was the people who did the attacking felt like this was their world. 

There was no hesitance, no reticence whatsoever. There were police 

telling them to stop and they ignored it the way I have never seen 

anyone ignore the police on American soil. It was total arrogance; 

this is our place. And let’s remind them, that is not their place. 

Sheridan Circle is ours, it is American. 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. And if I could just add, Congressman, that is a 

diplomatic neighborhood, the American Society of International 

Law, which has a townhouse, which they finally paid off, is about 

15 degrees around the circle and there are lots of other diplomatic 

establishments there. So, this is like the schmatta district for diplomats. 

Mr. POE. Well, as far as I know, this has never happened in the 

United States by any other embassy that has been here or any 

other ambassador or head of state. 

Once again, I find this appalling. 

I thank you for the extra time, Mr. Chairman. I yield back to 

you. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. All right, so the word is out to the Erdogan 

Gang; Judge Poe is on the way and he is taking the posse. He’s 

bringing a posse with him, including me. 

Mr. YASA. Can I say something? 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Yes, sir, and then Mr. Sherman. 

Mr. YASA. Oh, I am sorry. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Go ahead and say it. 

Mr. YASA. Well, I am definitely going to go protest Erdogan in 

front of the Turkish Embassy but this time I am not only carrying 

the megaphone, I want to make sure I have a baseball bat, too. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Brad Sherman. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Yes, before I focus on the events of the embassy, 

Ms. Usoyan, the Ezidi people are among the or probably the most 

oppressed people from ISIS. Which countries and groups in the 

area have provided safe haven or otherwise cooperated in the protection of the Ezidis? 

Ms. USOYAN. Well there have been a lot of countries that accept 

Ezidi refugees. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I mean in the area. I know that do. 

Ms. USOYAN. So, as you know, I have traveled to the region and 

I saw very protected Ezidis in Northern Syrian, which is under 

30

control of YPG currently, because their rights as Ezidi minority 

have been respected. They have not been placed in the camps with 

Muslim refugees or even Christians. They have separate camp and 

they were very thankful for what they have. 

Mr. SHERMAN. So the YPG has been helpful. Any other groups 

that have protected the Ezidis there? 

Ms. USOYAN. Yes, in the attack, in the August attack it was YPG 

who created Green Corridor and about 50,000 Ezidis, they flee to 

Northern Syria. 

As of today, I visited the camp which is hosting 5,000 families. 

Mr. SHERMAN. And how has the Turkish Government treated the 

Ezidis? 

Ms. USOYAN. Well, there was a case last year that Ezidis were 

trying to travel to Hungary and they were beaten up and placed 

in the prison. Yes, and now there was only a few camps that was 

under districts or control of HDP. So, that right has been taken 

away from HDP and Ezidi refugees has been spread all over the 

Turkey. So, it is very, very difficult for Ezidis for to survive in Turkey. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I want to now focus on a reaction to this Turkish 

outrage. Erdogan lives by fanning grievance mentality in Turkey. 

And I don’t want to help him do that. At the same time, we need 

to respond. 

We have got Mr. Gulen living in the United States. The Turkish 

Government has made a number of claims for his extradition. I 

think we have to declare very firmly they have got no credibility. 

There is nothing that makes me feel better about Mr. Gulen than 

the attacks that come from Ankara. I mean I was suspicious of the 

guy until I heard the attacks from Ankara. 

There is no credibility in the charges and certainly no credibility 

that if he were ever to be in Turkey that he would be treated with 

justice. 

We can expand our involvement with the YPG. We have already 

decided to do that, now that Mr. Flynn is no longer making these 

decisions or helping to shape them. 

We haven’t talked about forcing them to waive civil liability but 

those who suffered should be able to sue the Turkish Government. 

There is more than ample evidence. And perhaps that being an economic matter, we can tie it, as I said before, to allowing Turkish 

debt to be sold in the United States or purchased by Americans. 

We have already talked about expelling their ambassador. Obviously, our failure to recognize the genocide emboldens Erdogan 

every day. 

From amongst this pallet of possible reactions or others, I would 

like our witnesses to say what do we do that demonstrates to the 

Turkish people that this kind of thuggery is harmful to their interests? What do we do to punish and seek recompense from the 

Erdogan Government without playing into his grievance game? 

Ms. USOYAN. If I may, I really have a good list of proposals and 

I think you will just smile and you would agree with me but I just 

want to make sure that this hearing has a follow-up and Turkish 

Government will proceed to see the consequences from U.S. authorities. Because if next time, let’s say, President Erdogan, he 

comes, I will make sure to go to the front line and begin to chant 

31

whatever I was chanting on Tuesday, May 16th but I am just 

afraid that if we let this go unnoticed or unfollowed, they will just 

kill us next time. 

And social media has covered it worldwide and I receive messages from all around the world. It doesn’t show our leadership as 

strong if such action is happening. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Do we have anything to add, keeping mind that 

persuading the Trump administration to do anything, I mean we 

got a statement out of Tillerson, has been difficult. Some of these 

things could be done by Congress. 

So, Mr. Hamparian. 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. It is in the President’s hands but the expulsion 

of the ambassador I think would send a good message. That is the 

language of diplomacy. And also, Ambassador Kilic is a partisan to 

this issue. He is not, in my opinion, sort of career foreign service 

guy. He’s a Erdogan guy. He was out there yelling at the cops. 

That is the right message and I think it would be the right one to 

send. 

Mr. SHERMAN. And Congress could, of course, pass a resolution 

calling upon him to be expelled and, perhaps going further, in declaring that Members of Congress shouldn’t meet with him. 

And Ms. Wedgwood, if you have——

Ms. WEDGWOOD. Oh, I am trying to be creative. He doesn’t necessarily need the big residence that he has. If somebody is here, ordinarily, one respects the suggestion of the Government as to what 

grand house on Massachusetts Avenue they might choose to inhabit but it doesn’t—and I suppose the property is—it would be interesting to look at the title to the property and see who owns it. 

But certainly, in his ambassadorial function, that can be taken 

away, or one can demand that it could be for a much smaller, darker——

Mr. SHERMAN. I am worried about the tit for tat and I am especially worried about the safety our diplomats in Ankara. 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. That is true. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Any other comment? I have gone over. I yield 

back. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Sherman. 

I remember years ago there was a movie about guys in black. Do 

you remember that movie? It was the Men in Black. The Men in 

Black and I am looking at these guys running across the way in 

their black outfits. I mean this is right out of a sick B movie. The 

Men in Black, they were out to expose monsters. In this movie, the 

men in black are the monsters and they are working for the monster who is watching on the side. 

Brad, you made a good point about Gulen, about we remember 

this, the perception that we now have of the Turkish Government 

and of Erdogan, himself, has now been shaped and changed forever. He will never—he can come and beg forgiveness all he wants. 

We have his number now. 

The American people, we have tried our best to reach out to Turkey, trying to give every benefit of the doubt. I had four hearings 

on Turkey trying to make sure, in each one of them, trying to make 

sure that they knew exactly how we appreciated the friendship of 

the Turkish people, especially during the Cold War. And what this 

32

has done now is exposed us to the fact that they have an oppressive government there that is totally different than those people 

who worked with us during the Cold War. 

They are no longer our friends because the President, the head 

of their country now, can watch this and then call our ambassador 

in to castigate us, after seeing this firsthand. He saw this firsthand. 

One wonders then, when he talks about Gulen, we have to take 

into consideration what he did here. Obviously, you have a fascist 

megalomaniac in charge of the Government of Turkey who is so 

consumed with his own power that he thinks that he can call people together and tell us that we are wrong, when we see our citizens being beaten into the dirt, American dirt. 

So, we must take that into consideration when he—this is the 

guy he wants to close down all these schools. The Gulen movement—after this, we should note the Gulen movement is probably 

a very positive thing. Those of us who are kind of okay, what is 

this all about, well this should cement what we think of them. 

We also needed to know what we thought about the supposed 

coup that took place in which Erdogan, himself, assumed so much 

power using the supposed coup as an excuse. If Erdogan can sit 

and watch this and then ask us for an apology, what does that tell 

us about his honesty in dealing with his own people? I would say 

that if there was ever any doubt that that was a phony coup, that 

Erdogan has used in order to destroy his opposition or anyone who 

disagrees with him in Turkey, this should settle those issues as to 

whether or not he is a megalomania fascist or whether not he is 

just a president who is in a volatile situation. 

I would ask my colleagues to, again, join me in working with 

Judge Poe. If this man tries to come, I have pledged today at the 

hearing that I would be of Judge Poe outside that embassy. 

Now, a couple last thoughts. And that is, look, this is not the 

first time this has happened in America. Okay? There have been 

other cases where dissidents have been here and they have been 

beaten up. The Chinese I know, about 10 years ago, we saw this 

happen with some Chinese—in fact it might have been 20 years 

ago now, when you had Chinese people demonstrating and they 

ended up being beaten up by people coming from out of their embassy. That doesn’t happen anymore. We put a stop to that. 

But you know this isn’t something that we can—as we have said 

here today, this will determine who we are. After all these words, 

what I just said what Erdogan is, what we do now will determine 

who we are. That will determine also what kind of President we 

have. 

I will have to say that I am a little disturbed. And of course, I 

am one person who tries to put things in perspective. I would say 

this is, if the State Department can deal with this when they are 

so tough on what the Russians, whenever the Russians get out of 

line, and I voted with you today in condemning the Russians who 

got out of line, that tells us something. We need to make sure that 

things are in perspective and Erdogan has now defined for us that 

perspective. We expect that, as Americans, we will make sure that 

he understands that he is the one who set the rules. He’s the one 

who has established the perception and the type of relationship we 

33

will have and it is not going to be like it was 10 years ago with 

a friendly Turkish Government, where we tried to give them the 

benefit of the doubt every time we could. That will not happen 

again. 

So with that said, I am going to give each one of my fellow members 1 minute to end and then I am going to give you guys the last 

say for 1 minute. 

Brad, you have got 1 minute. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I think it has been said. This is a test of who we 

are and how we react. And I look forward to working with members of the subcommittee to do more than token responses, until 

such time as Erdogan formally and personally apologizes for what 

happens. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. You know when 

we speak about foreign policy, we typically speak about the best interests of the American people and the national security interests 

of the United States. We don’t typically contemplate, in the discussion of foreign policy, that it implicates the protections of the 

American people on our own soil from violent actions of a foreign 

government. 

But I think the chairman is right. This is a moment in which the 

commitment of the United States, in terms of our basic human 

rights, our basic freedoms, that we are so proud of, that we hold 

up to the world, our commitment to that will be tested by the way 

that we respond to the actions of a foreign government coming to 

America and attacking people who are peacefully protesting, which 

is a bedrock of our democracy. And I promise, as a member of this 

subcommittee, and as a Member of Congress, I will do all that I 

can do to vindicate those sacred rights and insist that the Turkish 

Government, that President Erdogan accept full responsibility for 

his conduct and that we stand strong in the view of the rest of the 

world with respect to our commitment to important human rights. 

And with that, I yield back. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Judge Poe. 

Mr. POE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think our message should 

be to the tyrant that you don’t mess with American citizens and 

their constitutional rights or you will rue the day that you ever did. 

Now, let us make sure there is a consequence for what occurred 

against you. 

I yield back to you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. And I will yield 1 minute to each of our witnesses to sum up. One minute, then we have got to go. 

Ms. USOYAN. Well, I have always been proud to be citizen of 

America, of United States of America. Now, seeing a great response 

from Congress, from Senate, from fellow Americans, I feel so 

thankful and so grateful for the fact that I am on this land, and 

that my rights are protected, and I have people who care deeply 

about me. I feel very much loved and I really appreciate all of your 

work. 

Mr. YASA. Thank you so much. It is my honor to be here in front 

of you. And it is my also honor to be American citizen. And the best 

thing I gave my children, they were born here and they are American citizens that is the best thing that happened to them. 

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And last sentence, as a Kurd from Turkey and American citizen, 

if this is what they do to us here, imagine what they do, the Kurds, 

Armenian, Greek, others against the Government in Turkey, what 

they do. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Excellent point. Thank you. 

Mr. HAMPARIAN. I would just offer that probably within minutes 

of this video going viral, the Turkish lobby kind of like started 

racking up their billable hours and they are going to work the 

State, they are going to work The Hill, they are going to work the 

White House, they are going to do all that stuff to try to manage 

this process, and dumb it down, and get us past it, and cover it up, 

and explain it away. 

So I would simply say I encourage the subcommittee, respectfully 

encourage the subcommittee to follow-up with DOJ and to follow 

up with the DC Police just to make sure that these prosecutions 

move forward. There were multiple felonies committed on film. 

Some of them were diplomatic and some are out of the country. 

Others are here and the prosecution should move forward. If they 

don’t move forward, that will be the barometer. That will be the 

canary in the coal mine that this is getting massaged and covered 

up. 

Ms. WEDGWOOD. I would do two things. One is I would have one 

of you gentlemen or all five of you—four of you—five of you to have 

a mano a mano with President Trump and make clear to him, in 

private, why he ought not to cozy up to this guy because I am not 

sure that there has been enough distance from the White House, 

vis-a-vis Erdogan. And it is just bad mojo all the way around, if the 

White House appears to be congenial. 

I also would be curious where Erdogan keeps his money. Everybody has offshore accounts, Channel Islands. You name it, they 

have got it. And while I am sure he has his fortunes scattered 

around the world, it would be interesting to know and it is not that 

hard to find out nowadays where folks have their money. And if 

there are people who have suffered damages as a consequence, 

when and if he leaves office, or if some country chooses to take a 

narrow interpretation of Presidential immunity, there are suits to 

be filed and fun to be had. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you. I want to thank all the witnesses 

on behalf of these United States. U.S., it is just us. That is all it 

is, the United States, every race, every religion, and every ethnic 

group made up in this family of Americans. And we will determine 

what we are outraged by and act upon what our values really are 

not just what our words are. If he attacks one American, he attacks 

all. 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 1:19 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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