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S. Hrg. 113–537 

PROTECTING OUR NORTHERN BORDER: 

ENHANCING COLLABORATION AND BUILDING 

LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE EFFICIENCY AND 

EFFECTIVENESS OF FEDERAL PROGRAMS AND THE 

FEDERAL WORKFORCE 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

FIELD HEARING IN HAVRE, MONTANA 

JULY 12, 2013 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security 

and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

MARK BEGICH, Alaska 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEIKAMP, North Dakota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

RICHARD J. KESSLER, Staff Director 

JOHN P. KILVINGTON, Deputy Staff Director 

KEITH B. ASHDOWN, Minority Staff Director 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

LAUREN CORCORAN, Hearing Clerk 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 

FEDERAL PROGRAMS AND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE 

JON TESTER, Montana, Chairman 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

MARK BEGICH, Alaska 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

TONY MCCLAIN, Majority Staff Director 

BRENT BOMBACH, Minority Staff Director 

KELSEY STROUD, Chief Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statement: Page 

Senator Tester .................................................................................................. 1 

Congressman Daines ........................................................................................ 2 

WITNESSES 

FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2013 

Don Brostrom, Sheriff of Hill County, Montana ................................................... 3 

Nathan Burr, Havre Sector Vice President and U.S. Border Patrol Agent, 

National Border Patrol Council .......................................................................... 5 

Debbie Vandeberg, Executive Director, Havre Chamber of Commerce .............. 7 

Kumar C. Kibble, Special Agent in Charge, Denver, U.S. Immigrations and 

Customs Enforcement .......................................................................................... 16 

Christopher Richards, Havre Sector Chief Patrol Agent ...................................... 17 

Robert Desrosier, Homeland Security Director, Blackfeet Nation ...................... 19 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Brostrom, Don: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 3 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 29 

Burr, Nathan: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 31 

Desrosier, Robert: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 19 

Kibble, Kumar C.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 16 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 37 

Richards, Christopher: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 17 

Vandeberg, Debbie: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 34 

(1) 

PROTECTING OUR NORTHERN BORDER: 

ENHANCING COLLABORATION AND BUILDING 

LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS 

FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2013 

U.S. SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF

FEDERAL PROGRAMS AND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE, 

OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER 

Senator TESTER. I would call to order this hearing of the U.S. 

Senate Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Efficiency and Effectiveness of the Federal Programs and the Federal 

WorkForce. This afternoon’s hearing is entitled Protecting Our 

Northern border: Enhancing, Collaboration, and Building Local 

Partnerships. 

And I want to thank my colleague Congressman Steve Daines, as 

well as his staff, for their contribution to this hearing. I want to 

thank our witnesses for joining us here today and for their ongoing 

work on behalf of our Nation and behalf of our communities here 

in Montana. 

When the topic of border security arises in Washington, DC, it 

is the Southwest border that gets most of the attention. Well, like 

most folks in this room, I happen to live within 100 miles of the 

Northern border and have my entire life. And we will continue 

doing all that we can to ensure that the needs up here are addressed when we start talking about border security. After all our 

Northern border with Canada is the longest shared border in the 

world, some 5,500 miles, including 545 miles in this State alone. 

And I do not need to tell you that, when patrolling in an area 

that expansive, manpower is an answer, but it is not the only answer. It is about deployment of effective technologies. It is about 

Federal, State, local and Canadian partners working closely and 

collaboratively. And today we would like to discuss some of the 

things that we are doing right, and we would like to identify some 

of our opportunities to improve the things that we can do better. 

After all this is just not a security issue. It is an economic issue. 

It is a jobs issue. And I know how much cross-border commerce 

means to our State and especially to this community of Havre. 

There’s certainly a way to promote smart and effective border security without compromising economic opportunity. 
2 

So with that I would like to turn it over to my colleague Congressman Steve Daines for his opening statement. Steve. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN DAINES 

Congressman DAINES. Thanks, Jon. And I do want to thank Senator Tester and his staff and the Senate Homeland Security and 

Government Affairs Committee for holding this hearing in Havre 

and inviting me to participate. In fact, when Cindy and I were 

married 27 years ago, my best man was a Havre Blue Pony. So it 

is nice to have some connection here to the community of Havre. 

Let me just say this, I very much enjoyed working with Jon Tester and Max Baucus back in Washington, as the three of us who 

represent this State, this great State back in D.C. And unfortunately Washington is described more by gridlock and partisanship. 

And it is nice to be back home today with Senator Tester, working 

together on issues that matter most to Montanans. 

With more than 500 miles of border with Canada, I think it is 

545 to be exact, I believe it is very important to assess the current 

effort to secure the Northern border here in Montana and across 

our country. I also serve on the Homeland Security Committee on 

the House side, and so certainly both Jon and I get to have a voice 

on these issues as we represent our State back in DC. As Jon mentioned, it is critical to our national security and our economy that 

we are effective in doing so. 

And as we all hear the Southern border receives most of the attention. However, it is important to remember that the Northern 

border is as much of a threat to security as the Southern border. 

For example, I had a briefing yesterday in Washington. According 

to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) terrorist screening 

databases, the Northern border has received five times as many individuals with potential links with terrorism as compared to the 

Southern border. Several of these so-called hits in the FBI database involved Montana border crossings. In order to truly secure 

the borders, we need to make sure that the Northern border is as 

much of a priority as the Southern border. 

At a House Homeland Security Committee meeting that I had 

back in Washington on Wednesday, we were discussing the Boston 

marathon bombings. In fact, we had the distinguished privilege of 

Mayor Rudy Giuliani coming and testifying. And certainly remember the events of September 11, 2001, and the role that Mayor 

Giuliani played. He made an interesting observation. He said this: 

The United States has 12,000 FBI agents, but there are over 

800,000 State and local law enforcement personnel. Clearly we 

need to leverage that partnership between Federal resources and 

the State and local resources, so that we can more effectively secure our borders. 

I look forward to hearing the perspective of all of our witnesses 

today. And looking forward to seeing what needs to be improved on 

our joint efforts to secure our borders. Thanks for participating in 

this hearing. And most importantly thank you for your important 

efforts here in Havre and our community. You are playing a pivotal 

role in protecting all Americans and importantly facilitating our 

economic prosperity. 
3 

1The prepared statement of Sheriff Brostrom appears in the Appendix on page 29. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Steve. Now, I would like to welcome 

our witnesses and introduce our first panel, what I might add, 

probably need no introduction here in Havre, Montana. 

For Sheriff Don Brostrom, Don began his career with Hill County 

in 1989, starting as a reserve deputy sheriff. He has served the 

county since then holding the positions of deputy sheriff and undersheriff. In 2008 he was appointed the Hill County sheriff/coroner 

and was elected to that same position again in 2010. Welcome, 

Don. 

Sheriff BROSTROM. Thank you. 

Senator TESTER. Next we have Nathan Burr. Nathan Burr has 

recently taken on the position of Vice President of the Havre sector 

within the National Border Patrol Council. He also serves as a U.S. 

Border Patrol agent and has served in the United States Marine 

Corps (USMC). Nice haircut. Currently he lives in Montana with 

his family, and he is an avid hunter. 

And finally on this panel, Debbie Vandenberg. Debbie is Executive Director of the Havre Area Chamber of Commerce. She chairs 

multiple committees within the chamber, including government affairs, Havre festival days, and leadership high school. Beyond that, 

she serves as the staff support in the Havre Pride Tourism Business Improvement District and member committees. 

It is good to have you all here. And it is a custom in this committee that all of the witnesses who testify before this committee 

are sworn in. So if you do not mind, for duplication purposes, I 

think we will have the first and the second panel stand and please 

just say yes, if you agree. 

Thereupon, the panel of witnesses, having been first duly sworn 

to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, testified upon their oath as follows: 

Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Your entire testimony will be put in the record. If you could 

talk about your testimony, we will open with about 5 minutes for 

opening statements, and we will start with you, Don. 

TESTIMONY OF DON BROSTROM,1 SHERIFF OF HILL COUNTY, 

MONTANA 

Sheriff BROSTROM. Thank you. Senator Tester, Congressman 

Daines, good afternoon. I would like to thank you for allowing me 

the opportunity to speak at this hearing. It is indeed an honor to 

appear before you today. 

Hill County is primarily a rural agricultural county located in 

north central Montana comprised of approximately 2,900 square 

miles with a population of just over 16,000. The terrain is extremely rugged, ranging from glaciated plains to steep sloping hills. 

Weather can range from highs of over 100 degrees during the summer to lows that are 30 degrees or more below zero. Weather in 

this area is extremely variable and can change drastically in a very 

short period of time. These types of conditions, coupled with a large 

response area, affects not only law enforcement’s response to specific calls for service, but seriously impacts regular patrol capabilities, especially throughout the majority of winter and summer 
4 

months. These factors clearly indicate the need for a cooperative 

and collaborative approach by law enforcement to keep the communities safe and the borders secure. 

Many years ago when I began my career in law enforcement, I 

can recall needing backup on a serious call or perhaps cover unit 

on a traffic stop. I also recall many times when I requested such 

assistance, it was in the form of one of the local Border Patrol 

agents. Being from a small law enforcement agency, we did not always have the luxury of many officers on a shift. Many times you 

were the only deputy on duty or your backup was on the alternate 

end of the county, sometimes 50 miles or more away. I can tell you 

it was a huge relief to look over your shoulder and see one of the 

Border Patrol agents arrive to assist. 

Our local Border Patrol agents provide higher degree of training 

and skill sets, which they are always open to sharing with local law 

enforcement. Many years ago, several agents provided training and 

sign cutting and man tracking. Months later this training allowed 

me to arrest a subject who had committed numerous residential 

burglaries and thefts in the Wildhorse Port of Entry area. Without 

this training and the individual assistance of local agents, this 

crime may have gone unsolved. 

Now, nearly 25 years later, there have been numerous changes 

at both agencies: New leadership, new facilities, additional staff, 

and growing responsibilities. However, even with these changes, 

the situation is largely the same as it was 25 years ago. My deputies still work hand-in-hand with local Border Patrol agents. They 

provide backup on calls when needed and provide training when requested. Border patrol agents participate in countless local committees, including the Local Emergency Planning Committee and the 

local Drug Task Force. Border patrol agents participated and were 

instrumental during a May 2011 interoperable communications exercise held in Hill County. Air wing personnel have assisted my office in criminal incidents, as well as on search and rescue missions. 

Over the past several years, the Hill County Sheriff’s office has 

been fortunate to receive Operation Stonegarden funding, which allows local law enforcement to be used as a force multiplier for Federal authorities along the border. This collaborative effort has been 

successful, as it allows the Border Patrol to direct local law enforcement to a specific site or location that for them may be problematic. It is also a tremendous benefit to Hill County as the added 

patrols allow more interaction with rural residents and provides us 

the ability to be more productive in our law enforcement approach. 

This increase in proactive patrolling has led to a decrease in criminal activity, specifically residential burglaries and thefts. 

Operation Stonegarden funding has also allowed Hill County 

Sheriff’s office the ability to purchase speciality equipment tight 

local budgets would not have been permitted. This equipment is 

not only key to Stonegarden operations, but also provides a higher 

level of officer safety. As an example, we were recently awarded 

Stonegarden funding that will permit the purchase of global positioning systems software and devices for our current portable radios. This will allow us to provide precise GPS data to the Border 

Patrol during an incident or emergency landing zone coordinates 
5 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Burr appears in the Appendix on page 31. 

for medical emergency during a Stonegarden operation. None of the 

software equipment would be possible without this grant funding. 

In closing, I feel that the most important aspect in protecting our 

Northern border is simple communication. From this hearing 

today, to formal quarterly meetings, to a simple cup of coffee, communication is key to our overall success. While funding and technology play major roles now, as well as in the future, I believe we 

need to keep our lines of communication open. Our Federal partners need to keep us informed of their plans and objectives. Local 

law enforcement needs to ensure that we reciprocate and keep our 

Federal partners informed of issues and concerns which affect local 

law enforcement. When this circle of communications is complete, 

the end result is more effective use of Federal and local resources. 

We always have and must continue to work side by side to ensure 

the safety of our Nation, our State, and our local communities. 

Thank you. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Sheriff Brostrom. I appreciate your 

testimony. Nathan Burr, you may proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF NATHAN BURR,1 HAVRE SECTOR VICE PRESIDENT AND U.S. BORDER PATROL AGENT, NATIONAL BORDER 

PATROL COUNCIL 

Agent BURR. Thank you, gentlemen, for allowing me to be here. 

I have been asked to address the Border Patrol’s role in securing 

the Northern border. The Border Patrol is responsible for providing 

security in between the ports of entry along the entire length of our 

Nation’s borders. During hours that the ports are closed, we’re responsible for their security as well. When it comes to the security 

of our Nation’s borders, it begins and ends with us. 

For the most part all of our resources and focus is on guarding 

this Nation’s borders. The problem that we have is that our meager 

pool of resources is becoming increasingly shallow. The combination 

of the Border Patrol’s last congressionally mandated mass hiring 

and then the current budgetary crises has left many areas drastically underfunded. Fuel and vehicle maintenance funding are two 

of the more apparent areas. In spite of our dedication and best efforts, it is difficult to adequately perform our duties without the 

proper resources. 

In regards to interagency cooperation at the Federal level, it is 

completely functional, but strained. Complete interagency collaboration is subdued and in some cases thwarted by insecurity and 

fear. Many agencies are more concerned with protecting their territory than actual mission accomplishment. In my experience, this is 

doubly true of any agency dealing with either immigration or border security. The relationship in between the U.S. Immigration and 

Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the Customs Border Patrol (CBP) 

is a good example of this in regards to some of the issues of interior 

enforcement and work site enforcement. And it is not just—this 

happens with many agencies. HR–1505 was cited in my full written 

testimony, and the need for that is a good example of what I am 

talking about. 
6 

One of the greatest problems that the Border Patrol faces in regards to collaboration and partnership with other entities, in particular local law enforcement entities, is that of perception. Much 

to the chagrin of most agents, the Border Patrol itself is an intensely political animal. In my 9 years of service, I have seen partnerships in two States develop and collapse based on the strength 

and the direction of political winds. 

In January 2010, the Havre station stood up a dedicated train 

check unit, of which I was a part. We checked the trains every day, 

and our apprehension numbers skyrocketed. We continued checking the train in this matter with or without a dedicated train check 

unit until the fall of 2011, when the Border Patrol and Havre sector caved in to mounting political pressure and ended our train 

check operations. 

During that time that we were dedicated to checking the train, 

I watched a tremendous number of partnerships develop, in particular with the Amtrak police department, with ticket agents in 

other States. When we were forced to cease the train check operations, those relationships withered and died. The previous level of 

cooperation is gone now. 

People generally do not understand the nature of the political 

waters that we tread. They do not understand why we are no 

longer there. They only know that we are not there for them now. 

They feel like they have been abandoned. No amount of rhetoric 

will heal that wound. We have to start over from ground zero and 

rebuilt those relationships. This takes time and it slows our 

progress toward a more secure border. 

The effect of border security and the Border Patrol in our local 

communities can be enormous. I am a local kid, lived in this town 

at this point for 26 years of my life. I understand this. Many of us 

prefer to shop locally, even if it means paying a little extra, because we believe in supporting the communities that support us. 

We also require vehicles, ATVs, snowmobiles and other equipment 

to perform our duties. All those service vehicles require fuel and 

maintenance. If there’s enough vehicles in the fleet, they may require enough maintenance for a local garage to need to employ another mechanic. 

The majority of us have families. That leads to schools benefiting 

from increased enrollment. Havre Public Schools had to hire extra 

staff in order to accommodate the increased enrollment in kindergarten 2 years ago. Many of us had children in that class, including 

myself. Increased enrollment leads to increased funding. And that 

can lead to a potential increase in the quality of education that all 

of our children receive. In addition to the benefits to the schools, 

local youth sports, and youth organizations benefit as well. Many 

of these organizations also benefit from agents serving as coaches 

and leaders within those organizations. Many charities benefit 

from having a Border Patrol presence in their community. 

Last year in Havre, a Border Patrol agent’s wife organized a barbecue cook-off in conjunction with festival days. The event was designed to raise money for the local soup kitchen and for a church 

charity. Although there were only four teams competing, they 

raised over $500 for those charities. Of those four teams, three 

were made up of local Border Patrol agents. It is one example, in 
7 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Vandeberg appears in the Appendix on page 34. 

addition to all the other major charitable events that take place 

throughout the country that the Border Patrol participates in: The 

torch run for Special Olympics, the Polar Plunge. 

In closing, I encourage you to read my full written testimony. 

Due to the time constraints for opening statements, I had to trim 

a lot of the detailed information out of my statement. More complete information and specific examples of everything that I said is 

included in that testimony. 

Thank you, again, for the opportunity to address you today. And 

I look forward to your questions. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you for your testimony. I will go to 

Debbie Vandenberg. 

TESTIMONY OF DEBBIE VANDEBERG,1 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

HAVRE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 

Ms. VANDENBERG. Thank you, Senator Tester, Congressman 

Daines, for inviting me to participate on this panel. As a representative of the Havre business community, it is truly an honor. 

The two topics that I will address today are commerce, trade, 

commerce also tourism. As we all know exports bring new money 

to Montana. And Canada and the United States enjoy one of the 

most prosperous relationships in the world with a high volume of 

bilateral trade each and every year with those numbers reaching 

obviously in the high billions with thousands of travelers crossing 

our borders between Canada and the United States. 

Montana and Canada have a profitable trade relationship as 

well, with billions of dollars moving back and forth across our border. Canada is Montana’s most important export destination, purchasing more from Montana than all other countries. Obviously 

some of those top exports being paperboard, automobiles, electric 

generation, crude oil, plywood, and plyboard for some examples. 

Some of the challenges that we face in this trade and export 

arena is obviously the transportation. Over 60 percent of this trade 

or exporting that goes into Canada is done by trucks through our 

ports. As you well know, there is a large contingency within this 

area, as well as in the Alberta area working to expand our border 

hours to be more consistent, which also leads to challenges for our 

truckers who reach the border and find out the border is closed, because our hours are never the same. Obviously with trucks moving, 

that requires upgrades in road infrastructure, which a group is also 

working on that. 

In visiting with some of my business folks today, permitting for 

agricultural equipment moving back and forth between Canada 

and the United States has become quite burdensome. A few years 

ago Mr. Harmon noted that he only needed four permits to cross 

the border with ag related equipment. Now it is over 14. So because we are not a commercial port, it is a permit commercial port. 

The permitting process sometimes can break down when, he noted 

this morning, that four copies need to go to four different people. 

And if he arrives at the port and somebody does not have that one 

piece of paper, he has to turn around and go back. So, anyway, the 

permitting process he hopes will be streamlined. Obviously we re-
8 

quire a 72-hour port notice and the broker process. Basically the 

feeling is, when the doors are not open, how can we do business. 

We are basically closed for business with inconsistent hours at the 

port. 

Tourism is also a great economic driver. For Montana in 2012 nonresident visitors spent $3.2 billion. Top categories being retail, 

hotel, restaurant, and gas, with groceries being a growing category. 

The Havre area had a survey done in 2002 by the Institute for 

Recreation and Research based out of the University of Montana. 

A sample survey showed a result that tourism was a $12 million 

economy to Hill County then. A similar sample survey was done in 

2010 resulting in information that tourism has grown to be a 20 

million plus industry for Hill County. Quite a good industry for us. 

Again, the top categories mirrored that of Montana as being retail, 

hotel, gas, restaurants, and groceries. Again, this is all new money 

to our State, as well as to our community. 

To drill down on this further, the Montana Office for Tourism 

and ITR reported that Canadians in 2011 spent an estimated $210 

million in Montana. 28 percent of that were nights spent right here 

in central Montana, with 65 percent of those visitors coming from 

Alberta. 

Knowing this the Havre Area of Chamber of Commerce Tourism 

Committee and our Tourism Business Improvement District developed an aggressive marketing plan focused to Alberta for yearround and some marketing into Saskatchewan. The marketing plan 

partners with the Montana Office of Tourism, as well as Central 

Montana Tourism. The print media campaign is a year-round campaign. We are also social based on the web and on the Facebook. 

Special inserts have been done quarterly by our local newspaper, 

and we advertise our events. 

As mentioned, retail being one of the largest categories for expenditures, our local businesses have benefited greatly from the favorable exchange rate for Canada. Some businesses reported in a 

Chamber survey that as much as 50 percent of their business during the holiday season could be Canadian sales. Our challenges, 

again, are the inconsistent hours at the border. Inconsistency, 

again, affects our business. 

We facilitated some workshops in educating our businesses with 

the challenges that we have in the use of Canadian debit cards and 

the banks, in that they can’t obviously deposit their money to our 

Federal reserve. It has to be brokered out. So businesses depositing 

cash at their banks creates a little bit of a challenge, and we’ve had 

workshops to try to educate and mitigate those problems. I understand next year we will have the euro chip in our credit and debit 

cards, which will make it easier for us to do international trade. 

I thank you for this opportunity and look forward to your questions. 

Senator TESTER. Well, thank you, Debbie. I appreciate all of your 

testimony. 

I will just start, like I said, if you could just remind me, Cheryl, 

when we get to seven, then I will kick it over to the Congressman, 

and we will go back and forth. 

I will start with you, Sheriff Brostrom, and I will ask the same 

question to you, Nathan. From your perspective, your law enforce-
9 

ment perspective as Hill County Sheriff and you as an agent, what 

are the biggest challenges that you see on the border? 

Sheriff BROSTROM. For local law enforcement, I guess, the size of 

the border, the size of Hill County, and limited number of deputies 

that I have to do for patrolling and take calls for service. And, of 

course, with the county budgets being tighter than ever, that also 

plays a role. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Nathan. 

Mr. BURR. For us it is definitely the size, but that goes hand-inhand with the type of terrain that we have specifically in our area 

here. My previous station in Arizona, there were a lot of choke 

points based on all of the little mountain ranges that were scattered throughout. Here it is a big, wide open area that’s incredibly 

difficult to try to cover with the limited amount of manpower, and, 

it is tough. There’s no natural choke points where you can put sensors or anything like that. It makes it difficult. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Population is I think, what, six people per 

square mile in this neck of the woods. Federal law enforcement, I 

think, has relied on the eyes and ears of the local folks, potentially 

alert them if there’s suspicious activity going on. How are those 

partnerships working in your perspective, Nate? 

Mr. BURR. Wonderful. I am biassed because I am from here. But 

I think we have some of the best people in the world here. And 

those relationships are key to trying to provide adequate coverage 

up there. We get a lot of good feedback. And it is a very good relationship and a very valuable one. 

Senator TESTER. Sheriff Brostrom, and I do not know, this question will probably be asked of the next panel too, may apply to 

them more than you, but do you have any interaction with Canadian law enforcement or your counterparts to the north? 

Sheriff BROSTROM. Generally it is more toward communications, 

interoperable communications, more toward the law enforcement 

end of it. But I do belong to a couple of different cross-border committees that are studying how we are going to talk with, Montana 

is going to a VHS system, our truck radio system, and the Canadians go to either 7 or 800 megs. So it is more along those lines. 

Senator TESTER. You talk about operation Stonegarden, and they 

have done, obviously done some good work granting some dollars 

in here. Are there any other pools of money that you look at, or 

is that just about the only game in town? 

Sheriff BROSTROM. No. Hill County over the years has been very 

fortunate receiving both State grants and Federal grants to the 

tune of, just in the sheriff’s office, close to $3 million probably in 

the last 10 years. But unfortunately those grants are drying up 

quickly. Stonegarden, we have had Stonegarden since 2005. Over 

the course of 2005, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, and we just applied for 

2013. So Stonegarden has been one that has always been there. 

Senator TESTER. Yes. 

Sheriff BROSTROM. And it works, I think, well for the Border Patrol. But it works extremely well for my office, because we get out 

and we get to patrol the areas that we do not normally patrol. 

Senator TESTER. OK. 

Sheriff BROSTROM. Simply because my guys go to where the trouble spots are. They do not normally run up and down the Hi-Line, 
10 

because we have had those folks up there in those communities for 

generations. And we do not have a lot of problems on the Hi-Line 

as much as we do in other areas of the county. So it gives us that 

extra opportunity to get out and talk with the residents, see what 

is going on. A lot of the information that we get that we can pass 

on to the Border Patrol comes from the folks that live up and down 

the Hi-Line. 

Senator TESTER. OK. When I was in the State legislature, interoperability was a big issue, because it did not exist for the most 

part. Can you give me an idea today, I mean that’s been almost 10 

years ago now, but today how interoperable are we? Are there still 

some gaps in there that we need to be paying attention to? 

Sheriff BROSTROM. We have made leaps and bounds in the last 

10 years, but there’s still a lot of work to do. I think we have been 

working hand in hand with local police department, Border Patrol, 

rural fire agencies, all of the responders locally in Hill County, as 

well as the cross-border in Blaine County, Liberty County, and 

Chouteau County, as well as our Federal partners. There’s a lot of 

work to do, but I think we have made tremendous movement in the 

last 10 years. 

Senator TESTER. How do you feel about that, Nathan? Same perspective? 

Mr. BURR. Yes. The radios that are vehicle based work really 

well and the interoperabilities. 

Senator TESTER. Well, I think we talked about communication. I 

think you talked about, Sheriff, about how quick the communication was, and this was a part of that. And if there are, if there are 

things out there that are impeding your ability to do your job, because we do not have the equipment, we would sure love to know 

about that. And, like I said, Chris, you will probably get the same 

line when you come up. I think it is really important. You ca not 

access the resources that are out there, if you ca not talk to them 

basically. 

Debbie, I know you have worked hard, along with many of the 

other folks in this room and people in this community, on Wild 

Horse and commerce with the border. If you could, just kind of discuss, you did in your opening statement, I would just like to have 

you flush out a little more about the challenges of local business 

base when it comes to attracting folks to come down here. 

Ms. VANDENBERG. Well, the first challenge, and you know this, 

Senator Tester, because we have been talking about this for how 

many years, is access to the State through the border and those inconsistent hours. And we have talked about the pilot program that 

we need. The business community is very much in support obviously those more open hours to the border, more open door. I mean 

and that’s a huge challenge. If the door is closed, then we ca not 

do business. And we were very excited when we were able to get 

the extra month into October 31 for those expanded summer hours. 

It is huge to our economy. 

Visiting with one of my businesses this morning, I mean he literally delivers furniture over the border, unloads it, the customers 

meet him at the border, they load it into their vehicles and drive 

back. And several comments have been, if it was not for the great 

benefit to us and the Canadian exchange rate now, I think that our 
11 

economy in Havre would have some challenges. So we are grateful 

for that Canadian business. 

The other challenge is on the point of sale part. And we have 

learned that obviously the Federal reserve does not take our Canadian money. It is international money. So it has to be brokered out. 

So our banks, we just had an incident in one of our banks the other 

day, where a Canadian came in to get some money, and he was 

charged a service charge. Well, they have to broker that money. So 

they have to pay to ship it and all that kind of stuff. So even 

though it says it is at par, there’s some added fees to that. 

One of the other challenges that we discovered the Christmas before last was a lot of our merchants’ modems did not read the Canadian debit card. And they have a chip in there that is different 

than ours. 

Senator TESTER. That’s right, Debbie. 

Ms. VANDENBERG. So we were not as business friendly as we 

wanted to be. I mean we were marketing and inviting people to 

come down and shop. We have people standing outside the doors 

of the mall in below zero weather on Boxing Day, the day after 

Christmas, to come down and shop in our community. And they 

have the Bay Company. But, anyway, so we have worked hard. We 

brought in some folks from Canada certified to educate our business community on different opportunities that they have to update 

that system to be more customer friendly, and it is working, but 

it is a process. 

Senator TESTER. I am going to turn it over to Congressman 

Daines in just a second. 

But I think there’s some opportunity that we need to visit about, 

and maybe get Visa and MasterCard in here to see if it is possible 

to get help with this issue. 

Ms. VANDENBERG. What I learned this morning, in talking to a 

couple of the banks, is that we are just technology-wise we are a 

little bit behind the eight ball in getting that euro chip into ours. 

Senator TESTER. Congressman Daines. 

Congressman DAINES. Thanks, Senator. Sheriff Brostrom, thank 

you for your service to the community, allowing parents to sleep 

better at night and the community. But I want to ask you what 

keeps you up at night, as you think about the challenges at the 

border? 

Sheriff BROSTROM. That’s a good question. I guess the things that 

I do not know, what may be happening that I am not aware of or 

do not know that may be coming across the border. I guess that’s 

why I rely on the experts in the green uniforms to keep me informed when we have those quarterly meetings of the things that 

they know that they share with local law enforcement. 

Congressman DAINES. When you think about the risks out there, 

what are some of the greatest risks that you see as you think about 

protecting your county and our State and so forth? 

Sheriff BROSTROM. Of course, drugs is always a key issue, combating drugs, prescription drugs especially, not knowing where 

they are coming from. Some of it may be coming across the border. 

Obviously it is coming across from other States into Montana and 

into Hill County. I guess that’s always the key on the forefront of 

everybody’s mind is where are the drugs coming from, what are we 
12 

going to do about the epidemic in Montana, especially in Hill County. 

Congressman DAINES. Nathan, what are your thoughts on that, 

what keeps you up at night? 

Mr. BURR. The potential number of terrorists in Canada and how 

open the Northern border is. There’s a chance that maybe they 

won’t transit through this area. Maybe they do something here. 

Congressman DAINES. And something that we were discussing 

just on Wednesday, when Mayor Giuliani came to our Homeland 

Security Committee hearing, and we were looking at how we could 

have prevented the Boston marathon attack, and I think there’s 

consensus that we could have done better in that regard, and one 

of the challenges was a breakdown between intelligence of what the 

FBI knew versus what the local law enforcement knew. 

Let me ask a question: In terms of your relationship with intelligence from the FBI and so forth, do you feel like, Sheriff 

Brostrom, are you getting information that you need to make sure 

that—because the boots in the ground here, the local intelligence 

is sometimes the best intelligence. 

Sheriff BROSTROM. Well, I said earlier that I think it is all down 

to communication, and I still say that. Whether it is the FBI, the 

Border Patrol, any Federal partner, city police, sheriff’s office, 

going into Blaine County, Liberty County, we all need to talk to 

one another. I think our local Federal partners do a great job of 

informing the local city police, local sheriff what is going on in our 

community. But obviously that can always get better. 

Congressman DAINES. Nathan, your thoughts on that. 

Mr. BURR. Just to clarify my role in everything, I am sitting here 

in a suit, but my actual role on the Border Patrol I am a dirt sniff 

and run. The lowest of the low, and a lot of the information does 

not get pushed down there. Our intelligence department is great. 

They do a lot of good work. Our management side of things, I think 

they get a little bit more than what we do, and it does not seem 

like, in regards to FBI, I get one FBI alert e-mail a week, I think. 

That’s about it. Grand scheme of things, I do not think that the 

guys on the ground really know as much as what they could. 

Congressman DAINES. I appreciate the perspective of Sheriff 

Brostrom, always can improve communication, cups of coffee, both 

informal and formal. Sounds like it is an area that we can improve 

an opportunity for us to continue to work on to leverage the limited 

resources that we have. 

Nathan, you made a comment, too, intrigued by, you spent time 

on the Southern border. 

Mr. BURR. Yes. 

Congressman DAINES. And as a Montana kid, also understanding 

the Northern border now very well. Maybe share a little bit more, 

because we hear so much, again, about the Southern border. The 

focus in Washington is on the Southern border. You mentioned 

some choke points of topography that actually allows the Southern 

border, it is easier to secure even than the Northern border. If you 

can elaborate more on that for us on around the challenge of the 

Northern border versus the Southern border. 

Mr. BURR. Well, it is not necessarily easier. In a lot of cases 

there’s more to work with. And, I mean, my view point was the So-
13 

nora Desert in Arizona. They have places where they have the 

river and different stuff that presents a challenge. The prairie or 

high desert areas, a lot of it is just open. Barring two track roads 

and that, they could be anywhere. Trying to find vehicular traffic 

would almost be like trying to find air traffic. There’s not much to 

stop them. 

The challenges up here, the biggest thing and the biggest shocker 

for me was just that. It is that wide open. There’s no border road 

up here that actually runs directly along the international border. 

That can present a challenge too. That gave us an area to work 

down south and to transverse along the border to see what was 

going on, where we were completely beyond reproach. For the most 

part, nobody could complain about us being on that, because of 

some of the legal aspects. There’s a strip of ground through there 

and that. So that’s a challenge up here. To try to track things out, 

big difference trying to track in between good sand and grass and 

hard pack up here. Those are all the biggest things, the terrain. 

Down there, they are dealing with so many numbers, and so 

many numbers, and so many numbers. And every group reduces 

your manpower by at least one, because you have one guy chasing 

them, and that makes it that much easier for the next group to go 

through. 

Congressman DAINES. One more comment that you made about 

the train checks you said that were going along and then there’s 

some challenges there. What needs to be done to get that back on 

the tracks, excuse the pun? 

Mr. BURR. We are making some really good steps in the right direction. This actually, from my perspective, it comes at kind of an 

awkward time. We had a change of command. We have a new chief 

now. Our previous chief, she was not quite as big on enforcement 

as what I would have liked to have seen. Chief Richards, that’s a 

focus. Came in immediately, and we are back on the trains working 

it in a little different manner, trying to have a lower impact on the 

public. And so we are taking steps that are in the right direction. 

But, for us, apprehensions are not where they were. 

Congressman DAINES. Thanks. I want to make sure I save some 

time for Debbie. 

Ms. VANDENBERG. That’s OK. 

Congressman DAINES. Seven minutes goes by way too fast. 

Debbie, I’m struck with your comment about 4 permits to 14 permits to move ag equipment across lines. What are we going to do 

about that? That sounds ridiculous. 

Ms. VANDENBERG. And the gentleman that I spoke to Jon knows 

very well, Ron Harmon, with Big Equipment Company. And he 

said probably 3 years ago or 4 years ago, it was four permits. And 

he said over time it is ratcheted up to the 14 permits. And he said 

every time we, the United States, adds a permitting process, the 

Canadian side ramps up their permitting side as well. So he said 

it is just as cumbersome going up as it is coming back. 

Congressman DAINES. Right. I am sure that we would love to get 

more on that—— 

Senator TESTER. Absolutely. 
14 

Congressman DAINES [continuing.] To figure out how do we 

downsize the permitting process here to make more sense. And 

then one last question—— 

Ms. VANDENBERG. And he would be willing to visit with you 

about that too. 

Congressman DAINES. I think that would be good for us to figure 

that out. The last question for you, you mentioned there’s some 

real potential economy here with getting the hours straightened 

out, getting the border a little more accessible back and forth. Is 

there a way to help quantify that, thinking of the cost benefit, because it might require investing in more resources to do that, but 

what the benefits might be in terms of the economy here? 

Ms. VANDENBERG. We have done some surveys within the business community, and we could probably do that again. I know a 

few years ago we did the study in partnership with Bear Paw Development, with Dr. Varkeo with the University of Montana showing the economic impact should the border go 24-hour commercial. 

And that report could probably be updated. 

Congressman DAINES. It might be a to-do, because it is more tax 

revenues, so looking at how much is my cost versus—— 

Ms. VANDENBERG. The jobs, economy, and that. 

Congressman DAINES. You bet. OK. Great. All right. Thank you, 

Senator. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Steve. I just have one more question 

for you, Nathan. And it has to do with travel long distances from 

both places like Havre to the border Turner, for example. Long 

haul, often take at least an hour, maybe two to get there. Many 

of your agents, and you correct me if I am wrong, operate individually, so manpower could be stretched and utilized. Any gaps in 

the work shifts would create definite repercussions, as you said, if 

somebody is gone from the border, it is a problem. 

Mr. BURR. Yes. 

Senator TESTER. So the reality of this is overtime pay, ultimately. 

Mr. BURR. Yes, sir. 

Senator TESTER. So I just want to get your opinion on the currency of the pay system. Does it make the most sense for folks like 

you and the agency you serve, does it make most sense for border 

security, does it make sense for the taxpayer the way the system 

currently works with overtime pay. 

Mr. BURR. Yes, it does. The current system has been under attack for several years now, and it is certainly coming to a head. 

But the biggest thing with administrative controlled overtime 

(ACO) it is called, we are not really getting overtime pay for those 

hours. So we are really quite a bargain for the government. We are 

making regular pay for those. For the most part, everybody else in 

America that works 40 hours a week gets time-and-a-half minimum. We do not. There’s a portion in those hours where Fair 

Labor Standards Act pay kicks in. And that does bump us up to 

nearly time-and-a-half. Anything that we work beyond 100 hours 

in a 2-week pay period, we get paid half time beyond that. So financially we are a bargain for the government. The pay reform bill 

that you put forward, even more so. We will save the government 

millions off employment. They are already saving on us. 
15 

But those hours that we work, and that’s the biggest factor, I 

mean forget the pay, it takes us roughly an hour-and-a-half to get 

up to Turner. It takes roughly an hour-and-a-half to get up to 

Chester or to the, north of Chester it is pretty much directly north 

of Chester, Larry Road. But if we do not have the ability to work 

those overtime hours, I am going to have to leave the field, leave 

the area of Turner, an hour-and-a-half before the end of my shift. 

It is going to take the next shift an hour-and-a-half to get out 

there, and that’s going beyond time to do muster, get vehicles, anything else that anybody else needs, the little housekeeping issues 

that come up at the beginning of the shift. The same thing for the 

other shifts. 

So those areas will see 3 hours completely open, if people lose 

this pay. I mean, traditionally everywhere in the Border Patrol the 

seams in between the area’s responsibilities and stations is always 

exploited. And it does not take a tremendous amount of intelligence, work for smuggling organizations and that to figure out 

where those seams are. So that pay, but more importantly those 

hours, that’s vital for security. Without that, there’s a huge gap. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you. Congressman Daines. Just real 

quick and we will get the next panel up here in a second. 

Debbie, if we might, I would love to have you visit with some of 

the banking folks, and I am serious about getting Visa and 

MasterCard on the phone and talk about solutions and a timeframe 

for that, because we ought to get in the 21st Century. So thanks. 

I just want to say thank you to the panel. I very much appreciate 

your guys’ service, appreciate your testimony here today, your 

openness with your answers to Congressman Daines and my questions. So thank you very much. And carry on and keep doing good 

work. 

While this panel gets settled back, we are going to bring up our 

second panel. While they are coming up, I am going to introduce 

who they are. 

We have Kumar Kibble. Mr. Kibble serves as a Specialty Agent 

in Charge of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), in the regional office in Denver, Colorado. Welcome to Montana. He is responsible for leading transnational criminal investigations conducted by Homeland Security investigations offices based throughout Colorado, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming. He began his government career as an infantry officer with the 82d Airborne Division. 

So we want to thank you, Mr. Kibble, for making the drive up here 

from Denver. You did not even fly. Thank you for being here. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Thank you, sir. 

Senator TESTER. Next we have Christopher Richards. Chief Richards is currently the Chief Patrol Agent for the Havre Sector. His 

career with the U.S. Border Patrol spans more than 27 years. Prior 

to his selection as chief of the Havre sector, he was assigned to the 

U.S. Border Patrol headquarters as an associate chief. Chris Richards and I have spent a fair amount of time on the airplane together. 

Yes, we will. OK. Go ahead and switch it. 

(Whereupon, Videotape 1 ended. Videotape 2 begins.) 

Senator TESTER. The third member of this panel is Robert 

Desrosier. Robert serves as the Homeland Security Director of the 
16 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Kibble appears in the Appendix on page 37. 

Blackfeet Nation. A post that he has held since 2006. He is also 

Chairman of the Montana Indian Nation Working Group. Robert 

has testified before our committee before, and I want to thank you 

for being here again today. 

Each of you, as with the previous panel, will have 5 minutes for 

your opening statement. And know that your full written statement 

will be entered into the record. And with that we will start with 

you, Mr. Kibble. 

TESTIMONY OF KUMAR C. KIBBLE,1 SPECIAL AGENT IN 

CHARGE, HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS DENVER 

Mr. KIBBLE. Chairman Tester and Congressman Daines, thank 

you for the opportunity to appear before you in Havre to discuss 

ICE’s efforts to improve security along the Northern border of the 

United States. 

ICE employs a multi-layered law enforcement approach to Northern border security based on an understanding that our geographic 

boundary with Canada is only one piece of the criminal continuum. 

It is neither the starting point nor the final destination of crossborder criminal activity. In fact, this illicit activity is often rooted 

in interior cities, as well as in smaller communities, throughout the 

United States. It is in these communities where the vast profits are 

generated that sustain the operations of transnational criminal organizations (TCOs), and where ICE succeeds on a daily basis, together with our interagency partners, in disrupting and dismantling the entire smuggling enterprise. 

ICE is positioned to leverage its broad statutory authority to support border enforcement by working in close coordination with 

other DHS components and U.S. interagency partners, as well as 

our counterparts in Canadian law enforcement, to target the illicit 

pathways and organizations that produce, transport, and distribute 

contraband. 

We continue to disrupt cross-border criminal activity systematically at all stages through effective cooperation and collaboration 

with our Federal, State, local, tribal, and importantly international 

law enforcement partners. We are making it increasingly difficult 

for TCOs and other criminals to operate. 

In fact, speaking of international partnerships, ICE maintains 

the largest investigative footprint of any U.S. investigative law enforcement agency in Canadian, with an attache ́ and assistant 

attache ́ offices in Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal, that 

enhance national security by conducting investigations involving 

transnational criminal organizations and also serving as the agency’s liaison to our interagency partners and counterparts in local 

government and law enforcement. In Montreal, for example, HSI 

operates a Visa Security Unit (VSU) to complement the traditional 

screening provided by providing additional level of review of visa 

applications of special interest persons before they enter the United 

States. 

A crucial aspect of our approach to Northern border security is 

our partnerships with our colleagues across DHS agencies, as well 

as with Federal, State, county, local, tribal, and foreign agencies. 
17 

These partnerships are absolutely essential to the joint operations 

and information sharing along the Northern Border and beyond. 

And they are conducted in the spirit of the President and Prime 

Minister’s Beyond the Border initiative, which seeks to promote integrated cross-border law enforcement. Collectively these agencies 

possess a unique understanding of the threats, risks, and 

vulnerabilities along the Northern border that enhance our ability 

to deter, disrupt, and investigate illegal cross-border activity. 

We are also an active participant in the Canada U.S. Cross-Border Crime Form (CBCF). The CBCF meets annually. Smaller working-level meetings throughout the year, bringing together more 

than 100 senior law enforcement officials and prosecutors from Canadian and the United States to address cross-border issues, including counterterrorism cooperation, mass-marketing fraud, interoperability of our respective law enforcement agencies along the 

border, and combating organized crime. ICE and Border Patrol 

leadership, in particular, meet on a regular basis, along with leaders of other DHS components to discuss areas of mutual concern. 

Our flagship task force program, the Border Enforcement Security Task Force (BEST), was created in 2005, is a mechanism to address the threat of cross-border crime. BEST task forces provide a 

proven and a flexible platform from which DHS investigates and 

targets transnational criminal organizations that attempt to exploit 

vulnerabilities at our Nation’s borders. 

We are working tirelessly in coordination with Federal, State, 

local, international, and tribal agencies to identify, disrupt, and 

dismantle these TCOs that subvert the rule of law, violate our immigration and customs laws, destabilize our communities, and 

threaten national security. 

We commit substantial resources along the Northern border, and 

our considerable efforts are part of a comprehensive strategy that 

focuses on securing the border, dismantling the infrastructure that 

supports cross-border criminal activity, and identifying and seizing 

the illicit profits from these crimes. We are dedicated and committed to this mission, and look forward to continuing to work with 

Congress on these efforts. 

And, again, thank you for inviting me to appear before you today. 

And I would be pleased to answer any questions. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Mr. Kibble. Chief Richards. 

TESTIMONY OF CHRISTOPHER RICHARDS, HAVRE SECTOR 

CHIEF PATROL AGENT, U.S. BORDER PATROL 

Mr. RICHARDS. Chairman Tester and Congressman Daines, it is 

a privilege and honor to appear before you today to discuss the efforts of the United States Border Patrol in securing the Northern 

border. Please allow me to begin by expressing my gratitude for 

your support of the mission and the people for the U.S. Border Patrol. We greatly appreciate your efforts and assistance, and I look 

forward to continuing to work with you and your staff in the future. 

As part of America’s frontline border agency, the U.S. Border Patrol operates between the ports of entry, with the primary goal of 

protecting the American people from persons, organizations who 

pose a threat to our Nation. Our work to reduce the likelihood of 
18 

terrorist attack, while providing safety and security for our citizens, is an ongoing mission. We will expand on the integrated approach to border security that is proven successful, including active 

engagement with law enforcement, community, and civil partners 

at the Federal, State, local, tribal, and international levels. 

In addition to expanding collaboration and partnering, the implementation of the U.S. Border Patrol’s risk-based strategy will 

greatly focus our efforts. Our new strategy takes a more holistic 

view, examining threats, vulnerabilities, and risk laterally across 

the border and in depth beyond our borders while moving our organization toward a mobile and flexible workforce that can rapidly respond to emerging threats and mitigate risks. 

As you know, the Montana border is expansive, characterized by 

vast plains with deep coulees in central and eastern corridors and 

by rugged mountainous regions in the west. Our challenges in 

gaining situational awareness of these are many. Primary among 

them is our ongoing requirement for accurate information and 

timely intelligence. Both are essential in providing agents with critical insight about those who seek to cross our borders with criminal 

intent. 

Operations within the Havre sector have evolved over the years. 

72 percent of Havre sector’s border is privately owned agricultural 

land. And our connection to our local stakeholders is a critical component of our mission. Additionally, we rely on various forms of detection compatibility. In some areas of our border, we require the 

ability to quickly identify and classify cross-border entries and rapidly respond to effect an arrest. In other areas, generally characterized as remote, situational awareness is aided by the deployment 

of unmanned aerial systems (UASs). 

These UASs are equipped with intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance sensors that provide agents and decisionmakers with 

greater situational awareness of border areas through change in 

detection technology and trend analysis. These technologies, with 

other methods of information collection and full integration with 

our partners will establish the basis from which we will qualify our 

success. 

I assumed command of the Havre sector in April of this year, and 

I quickly established two priorities: To enhance and improve communications both internally and externally, and to focus our resources on the collection of information. The latter is consistent 

with the 2012–2016 Border Patrol strategic plan that is built upon 

the three pillars of information, integration, and rapid response. 

As we gather and analyze information, we will proactively integrate with our Federal, State, local, tribal and international partners through operational planning that seeks common objectives 

and outcomes. Drawing on all of our collective resources, we will 

rapidly respond to mitigate the risk. This whole government approach will depend upon cooperation amongst all agencies up to 

and including the Border Patrol sectors to my east and west, which 

takes me back to my first objective of communication. Everyone in 

this room understands that in order for partnerships to succeed, 

trust must be established through communication. 

My staff and I are committed to building coalitions within our 

own ranks and among our external partners and community stake-
19 

holders. In the end, we all want the same thing: To feel safe in our 

communities. And border security is essential to that pursuit. 

I am proud to represent the agency at the frontline of that objective and to speak for the men and women who proudly serve in this 

uniform. 

Thank you and I look forward to your questions. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Chief Richards. Robert Desrosier. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT DESROSIER, HOMELAND SECURITY 

DIRECTOR, BLACKFEET NATION 

Mr. DESROSIER. Congressman Daines, Senator Tester, thank you 

very much for this opportunity to address you today and your concerns on the Northern border. I feel very fortunate to have this job 

as the Director for Homeland Security for the Blackfoot Nation. 

Our nation is roughly 3 hours west of here. And we are a border 

tribe. We have roughly one-tenth of the Montana border adjacent 

to tribal lands. The Blackfeet Nation is a million-and-a-half acres, 

and our population runs a little over 8,500 people pretty normally. 

However, in the summertime today, we are a little over 22,000– 

23,000 people, because of the park. And I just heard yesterday that 

Glacier National Park just hit a million visitors this year already. 

Most of that impacts the tribal lands and the Indian nations. So 

we have a very tough challenge confronting us, since my operation 

is a two-man border security force. I have myself and a deputy. 

It is quite challenging at times. Some of our demographics I mentioned, but our elevation and our terrain is unique. We are roughly 

around 3,500 feet in elevation on the east end to about 9,000 on 

the west end toward the Continental Divide. And we have areas on 

the international border where it is inaccessible by motor vehicle. 

It is either by aircraft or by foot. We have pretty good luck in offroad and four-wheel-drive vehicles, but I would say that that is one 

of our challenges is good and complete coverage on our Northern 

border. 

And as I testified here a few years ago, we, at that time, completed a very thorough inventory of our border lands. And we have 

identified, at that time, nine illegal crossings that were in use out 

of 14 potentially crossing points on the reservation. And this year 

we are at the same level. We have signed—we can pick up signs 

at any number of illegal crossing sites at any given day. And the 

problem that we face is just not having adequate manpower and 

accurate coverage to be out there at a greater timeframe throughout the day. 

I want to mention a story right here, and I will try to go fast in 

the interest time. But a couple of weeks ago I was called out at 11 

in the evening for three young ladies that were stranded on a 

mountaintop just on the western boundary of the reservation. And 

we responded with a search and rescue crew, and we determined 

that this was an impossible task for us to climb up there on the 

mountain and retrieve these young ladies in the middle of the 

night. So we call in our partners. And a nine-member Glacier National Park high-angle rope rescue people team arrived at daylight 

and rescued successfully these three young ladies off the mountain. 

But that is a story that often goes unheard of the extraordinary 

gains that we have made in creating partnerships with Federal 
20 

agencies in our tribal law enforcement. We had Glacier County 

Sheriff, Blackfeet Law Enforcement, and Glacier National Park 

that saved these three girls from—they ended up spending the 

night on the mountains, but it certainly could have had a different 

outcome. 

And I want to say that I am very happy of the fact of the things 

that we have been able to accomplish in our partnerships. The Border Patrol and their tribal liaison program has been very beneficial 

and very successful. As me being the Chairman of the Montana Indian Nations Working Group, I also have that person that takes 

part and does presentations and trainings in that larger tribal 

arena throughout the State of Montana. It is a very good thing. 

But there are challenges ahead of us that remain. We have to 

continue to work in that area and become better. We have been 

able to develop safe schools task force that goes into our reservation schools, communities and work together multi-jurisdictional, 

along with the school administrators. And we have monthly meetings and address potential threats to our schools and talk about 

the challenges that we have and assess the vulnerability of our 

schools in our communities. I am available for any questions, and 

I thank you very much again. 

Senator TESTER. Robert, thank you very much. And thank you all 

for your testimony. I very much appreciate it. Same format as before. 

I will start with you, Mr. Kibble. From an ICE perspective, what 

are some of the challenges that you are seeing on, well, on both the 

Northern border and the Southwest border and kind of is a degree 

of difficulty, let me know? 

Mr. KIBBLE. Well, certainly, Senator, sequestration brings a different set of challenges. Although, I mean we always knew the resources are available. We just need to prioritize the threats. 

Senator TESTER. Right. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Obviously there’s a high volume of activity along the 

Southwest border. Here, to kind of anticipate your question, Congressman Daines, in terms of what keeps me awake is just are we 

working in terms of focusing on what we can control, are we doing 

everything that we can in terms of information sharing, operational 

partnership, to keep dangerous people and dangerous goods from 

crossing the border. 

And I think that we can never stop working toward getting better and better, but I will tell you it is as good as I have ever seen 

it. I can tell you here in Montana, we do not generally comment 

on specific staffing, but we are dramatically smaller than our sister 

agency HSI, the Border Patrol. And without partnership, without 

close collaboration with them, we would be dead in the water, in 

terms of some of the investigations that jointly we have been able 

to pursue in terms of disbanding and dismantling organizations. 

Senator TESTER. As far as drug traffic goes, what are you seeing 

on the Northern border? 

Mr. KIBBLE. Well, it is a great story of collaboration, a Border 

Patrol agent a couple of years ago, 2011, on an initial encounter, 

and then us jointly working together, bringing the Royal Mounted 

Police in, bringing other State and local agencies, as well as DEA, 

we were able to dismantle an organization that moved more than 
21 

a ton of cocaine from the United States across the border in eastern 

Montana into Canada, as well as more than a million Ecstasy tablets, MDMA, from Canada into the United States. And we know 

that because, working with the RCMP, they were able to get the 

ledgers that showed those 22 separate shipments. 

But, again, working together, and it gets back to this integrated 

cross-border enforcement, working with the Canadians to be able 

to attack the entire continuum is what allowed us to have that 

great success. In fact, it was featured as the model for Beyond the 

Border of X-generation and the Cross-Border Crime Forum a couple of years ago. It was excellent work. 

Senator TESTER. I do not know if you have a good enough crystal 

ball or if you have done the matrix on this, but how much of the 

illegal drug activity on the Northern border do you think you 

catch? 

Mr. KIBBLE. Sir, I do not know. That’s the challenge there. 

Senator TESTER. OK. During a recent trip that I took to the 

Northern border, I spoke with some CBP agents that were frustrated by jurisdictional issues. Not to get too specific, but CBP had 

actionable intelligence, and this has been a year or two ago, to 

make a number of arrests in a rate to move forward, but ultimately 

had to defer to ICE, because it was deemed as interior enforcement. At the end of the day, nothing was done, which is particularly concerning to me considering there is a fair amount of money 

that we put at this stuff. And if there’s actionable enforcement, 

nothing is done, that’s not acceptable. Like I said, that was a year 

or two ago. We can assume it is better now. But can you just tell 

me now how CBP and ICE currently handle overlapping jurisdictions? 

And if you want to jump in on this one, when he’s done, Chief 

Richards, you can. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Certainly. We have a number of policies in place to 

where we complement one another. Border patrol is obviously the 

lead for interdiction between ports of entry. We complement that 

with an investigative function. Here I am speaking within Homeland Security Investigations. The other directorate within ICE is 

enforcement and removal operations, which does the civil immigration enforcement and the detention. We have regular meetings with 

sector chiefs and special agents in charge. We’re piloting new partnerships, so that we can continue to work closer. I will tell you, 

years ago, I was very concerned about the relationship within DHS. 

But, again, it is as good as I have ever seen it. But we do have 

work to do. We need to keep working to improve it. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Chief, would you talk about that? 

Mr. RICHARDS. Yes, sir. Your question specifically was how 

things worked in Montana between us and ICE. 

Senator TESTER. That’s correct. 

Mr. RICHARDS. OK, sir. So, yes, we have, I am pleased to say, a 

very good relationship with the seven ICE agents that work out of 

the Great Falls office. They complement what we do. 

I’ve got stories, the one that Mr. Kibble shared with you about 

the crossing that led to the big investigation. Within the ICE MOU, 

there’s a threshold. 
22 

If we encounter a situation at the border and there is an ongoing 

case or a potential for a case that would extend beyond, we call 

ICE. And, in fact, I have one of my supervisors embedded with the 

ICE office in Great Falls, who facilitates on this conversations. And 

I would suggest to you that we have seamless communication in 

that area. We have had a lot of success. 

Senator TESTER. That’s good. One more quick one, and then Congressman Daines can take it up. Your headquarters is here in 

Great Falls for the State. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Yes. 

Senator TESTER. If you have let’s say with the Bakken play—this 

is not hypothetical. It’s probably more real than hypothetical—and 

they find an undocumented person, and the sheriff locks them 

down, No. 1, how long are they there for, and do you have the manpower to be able to go pick that person up and deal with them, because ultimately it is going to be your responsibility? And correct 

me if I am wrong. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Sir, it would be ICE’s responsibility in terms of response to a custody kind of situation. That falls within our other 

directorate within ICE that I am not responsible for. So I am 

happy to get that information for you. I do not know what their response time is. 

Senator TESTER. If you could get that back to me. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Sure. 

Senator TESTER. And basically what I want to know is, No. 1, do 

you have the manpower to be able to make a, what is it, a 10-hour 

drive from Glendive to Great Falls? It is eight at least. Do you have 

the manpower to be able to do that, No. 1? And, No. 2, how long 

would it take to respond to that? 

Mr. KIBBLE. Sure, Senator. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Congressman Daines. 

Congressman DAINES. Thank you, Senator. In a recent Homeland 

Security hearing we had back in Washington, we had Secretary 

Napolitano come and testify and some of her deputies. One of the 

questions was, and I asked the question, as a Montana guy, because as the Senator mentioned, so much of the focus is on the 

Southwest border, and we are very concerned about the Northern 

border as Montanans, I asked the question what percent of our 

Northern border is secure. And the answer was about 5 percent. 

Now, I am not quite sure how they determined that number. I 

did not really ask how I was defining secure. But I would like to 

throw the question around, how do you measure success, because 

we are sitting here talking about wanting to secure the border. My 

background is in business. We know that if you aim at nothing, you 

will hit it. How do we measure success? What is the definition of 

having a secure border? It is a very political issue back in Washington, we want a secure border. I would love to get your thoughts. 

And maybe we will start with Mr. Kibble, and then we will go to 

Chief Richards, and then I want to hear from Mr. Desrosier as 

well. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Congressman, from our standpoint, because we have 

that investigative function, we do not have the patrol function 

along the border, in terms of how we measure success, we look at 

how we are prioritizing criminal organizations and impacting their 
23 

capacity to smuggle people or goods across the border. So we have 

a strategy called the Illicit Pathways Attack Strategy, where we 

rack and stack based on intelligence, based on investigations, based 

on information from partners, what the most serious threats are. 

And then our success at disrupting or dismantling, again, not just 

the activity at the border, but the entire continuum. So our success 

is measured in terms of how have we dismantled organizations 

that moved X number of kilos across the border or X number of 

people across the border. 

Congressman DAINES. It is probably less germane to your neck 

of the woods, and probably to the chief. So I will put you in the 

hot seat here. How do we measure success? 

Mr. RICHARDS. Sir, this is a great question. It is one we have 

been discussing for a long time. Chief Fisher has had numerous 

testimonies on the hill explaining a secure border is when the 

American people feel safe that their border is secure. 

How to quantify that is another issue. Different methodologies. 

Of course, down south they are using the effectiveness ratio, and 

it is a complicated math formula that just in general it involves 

flow, apprehensions, got-aways, and then we do the numbers. For 

the Northern border it is going to be a little bit different. We are 

going to be very reliant on situational awareness, how well we 

know what is going on, and then how well our resources are at attacking what is going on. 

The No. 1 priority that I have given to my staff and to my agents 

in the field is collection of intelligence, because, as Mr. Brostrom 

stated not knowing what we do not know is a problem. Once we 

have information on the goings-on, whether it is frequent or even 

infrequent crossings, then we can address those areas with technologies and resources, personnel and otherwise. One of the benefits to Montana, in particular, is we do not have a large geographic 

municipality right on the border, but there’s a bigger one on the 

north side, for example, Detroit-Windsor, that actually works to our 

benefit. 

Now, I realize there are still issues with the vastness and openness. But the routes and egress, we are able to, with information 

and collection. And then key to this also, I might add, is the integration with our partners, ICE and all of them, our locals, in particular. We will be able then to mitigate that risk. 

And so in answer to your question, I foresee situational management with a layered piece of our capabilities, technology and otherwise, and we will establish a matrix based on that. 

Congressman DAINES. One of the advantages of doing field hearings is we get to hear from your folks who are right here at the 

coal face, which I really appreciate, versus, maybe high level bureaucrats back in Washington. And do you think it is the right matrix? And if you had to think of a matrix or two, you know from 

your view, and I really want to hear from you, because you are out 

here every day getting the dust on your truck, what do you think 

is the right thing to measure there? 

Mr. RICHARDS. You asked the questions of the others, stuff what 

keeps me up at night. And for me what dominates my thinking, as 

the chief of the sector, is how can we do this better. I will tell you 

that I do believe strongly that coalitions and partners, not just law 
24 

enforcement, with community, is critical to our success. Chairman 

Tester, you are a landowner, and you know what is going on your 

property. And if I have a connection established, then we have a 

better awareness of what is going on. And it is a needle in a haystack, with 460 miles within my OR, difficult, and Mr. Burr pointed out some real challenges. However, I think that the approach 

to that is it relies on information, the collection thereof, the 

synthesization of that information into intelligence, so we can respond to that with resources. 

Congressman DAINES. Mr. Desrosier, speaking of the needle in 

the haystack, I was struck by your comment of two of you to patrol 

that 50, 60 miles from 3,500 to 9,000 feet. How do you think about 

what does securing the border mean to you and situational awareness? 

Mr. DESROSIER. Certainly information, giving and receiving is of 

the upmost importance. It is the local landowners, it is the officer 

working the beat next to you. 

Two things that happened with great significance to me in my 

operation most recently is the fact that we were able to have a 

Project North Star Meeting—is that what we called it—in Sunburst 

recently, where the patrol officers from both sides of the border sat 

down and had a common discussion on what these issues are on 

the Northern border. And the takeaways of that was two sheets of 

paper with everybody’s contact information. So that we could sit 

right down on our cell phone in the field and call that person who 

is working north of us. And I have used that a couple of times already. And that to me was very valuable. 

That was the first time that we have been able to do that, in my 

opinion. 

The second thing is, we are struggling with this all the time, and 

that’s improving our communications. We just do not have VHF radios capable of talking to the base station when we are working in 

the Chief Mountain Deep Creek area. We had satellite phones. The 

funding, we are not going to be able to turn those phones back on 

until October, because we do not have the funding for those satellite phones. They were very valuable. We do not have the dispatch capability, card base from that area, about that 7 to 10-mile 

stretch of border up there. And I think we have made some 

progress in that field by identifying a common mutual aid law enforcement channel that we could talk to Canada on right now. And 

I think this is the first in the Northern border where we have had 

that approval given by the FCC for Montana officers to do that. 

The third thing I wanted to mention is that we have a long ways 

to go in the area of communications. We were involved in a hot 

pursuit of a border jumper that came down Highway 89. And we 

were the third one in a three-car chase. We were tribal officers in 

a third-car chase, with two Border Patrol agents ahead of us. There 

were still tourists on the road. We ended up in a traffic jam, and 

we became the second vehicle in the chase with no communications 

car to car, which is very detrimental in that life or death situation. 

We are on the dispatch. Dispatch was on the phone with their dispatch. And it was just a waste of time to have to go through two 

dispatchers and back through repeaters and back to the cars. And 
25 

the information is happening so fast, you have to be tuned in right 

now. 

And as it turned out, we ended up getting in front of this stolen 

car and got rammed in the back, and we ended up apprehending 

the suspect and taking him into custody. But it was a very serious 

situation where tribal officers and border agents could not talk car 

to car. And we are working on that. We are making some progress. 

And hopefully I will not be telling you this story this time next 

year or a few years from now. 

Congressman DAINES. Thanks, Mr. Desrosier. One more question 

for Mr. Kibble, if I could. And Senator Tester, it is a great question, 

I was thinking about the Bakken, what is going on. Wayne Gretzky 

once said what made him great, he skates to where the puck is 

going. And thinking about where we are going to be the next 5 to 

10 years, and probably that long drive from Denver to Havre, I appreciate the distance. How do we make sure we are enforcing the 

immigration laws and so forth there in the Bakken? 

Mr. KIBBLE. Well, Congressman, we will have to look at how that 

evolves. U.S. Attorney Cotter is taking a leadership role and really 

trying to immobilize Federal support of that. And I know that some 

of the other agencies have seen more of the work in terms of their 

violations. We have some other offices from the Dakotas that are 

probably responsible, that are closer. 

Congressman DAINES. Yes. 

Mr. KIBBLE. It is going to be like we handle any other threat. As 

we see it evolve, we are going to try to staff that or address it as 

we evaluate the resources that are available. 

Congressman DAINES. Go ahead. 

Mr. KIBBLE. I was going to say to date we have not seen significant cross-border activity today. But we have to constantly reassess. 

Congressman DAINES. I was in Sidney last week, met with their 

mayor, their police chief, and their sheriff, and so forth, and certainly there’s concerns out there. I think the Senator’s point, one 

we want to keep an eye on, to have presence there, so we can get 

ahead of it, before it becomes a bigger problem. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Yes, sir. 

Congressman DAINES. Thanks for your service. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about military radar that I have been trying to get on the Northern border 

for some time now, because I think it would help identify low flying 

aircraft. Now, I understand that DHS entered into an agreement 

with the Canadian government in 2011 to begin receiving their 

radar data. Chief Richards, could you give me an idea on how his 

is working or if it is working? 

Mr. RICHARDS. Sir, I believe it’s better. The AMOC in Riverside, 

California, receives the feeds from the radars in Canada. So we 

have a better picture of this stuff. It’s not the whole answer, sir, 

but it’s much better. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Kind of talk to me about agents. It would 

appear to me, from my perspective, that you get an agent like Nathan Burr, worked up here for a while, they know the Hi-Line pretty well, they know the border pretty well, and I guess probably the 

other agents are probably in that same boat, if they have been here 
26 

for any length of time. Correct me if I am wrong, do these folks get 

moved to the Southern border with regularity, or is that their call, 

or is that your call, and how does that impact your ability to go 

to sleep at night? 

Mr. RICHARDS. Within our ranks, sir, it is voluntary on the 

agent’s part. Very seldom is there a mandatory relocation of people 

from the Northern border to the Southern border. We have negotiated with the union at the national level the voluntary relocation 

program. And we have not seen that for a while, because funding 

is still an issue, sir. But that allows agents to bid for position, them 

to come north and for our folks to go south. 

Senator TESTER. And that whole immigration debate that the 

senate had here a month ago or so, visa overstays were a big issue, 

has to do with about 40 percent of the undocumented folks who are 

in this country right now. At this point in time, I think our government does a lot of data. The Canadian government does a lot of 

data. It would appear to me that some swapping of that data may 

be useful to both countries. 

Mr. RICHARDS. Sure. 

Senator TESTER. Can you tell me if that’s being done, or if there’s 

an issue to get that done, or if there’s something that we need to 

do to help that happen? 

Mr. RICHARDS. Sir, at the national level, I honestly cannot answer that question. I will tell you at the local level, we work really 

well through the IMITZ with the RCP, our Canadian partners. But 

that’s more geographically specific to us. So generally I do not 

think I can answer your question. 

Senator TESTER. OK. 

Mr. KIBBLE. Sir, I would say that the national targeting center 

run with border protection has generally been on the cutting edge 

of trying to get information sharing agreements going. And certainly for us, a lot of our visa overstay enforcement is coordinated 

from the information sharing that goes on at the national targeting 

center. As well as the university program, the information that we 

get from universities in terms of the student overstays. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Good. All right. Robert, thank you for being 

here. I think that you are working in an area that is—it’s not very 

commonplace on the borders. I mean you have a reservation, 50, 

60 miles of border with Canada. Can you tell me what is your relationship with CBP as far as, if they think there’s an issue up there, 

do they get ahold of you? Who do they get ahold of, or do they just 

go up? And then if there is an issue, do you oftentimes contact 

Chief Richards’ office and say we have something going on up here, 

we need some help? How does the process work? 

Mr. DESROSIER. In my experience, as of right now, it is the best 

relationship we have ever had with the Border Patrol. We can pass 

information back and forth regularly, and we often do. Most recently we did have a big case in Blackfeet to where we called for 

assistance, and that was handled just perfectly. It was without a 

doubt one of the best I have worked. Yes, we do have a relationship 

that I think was nonexistent a decade ago. We do call each other. 

We were called on that pursuit that I talked about. And we called 

back both directions. Working very well. 
27 

Senator TESTER. And I think that, as long as stuff works, it 

works. Do you see any need for written agreements, and are there 

any written agreements? Or is it more person to person, your relationship with the chief, chief’s relationship with you? And how do 

you ensure that, after he leaves or after you leave, that relationship, be able to do business, to be able to keep our borders secure, 

continues. 

Mr. DESROSIER. It is based on relationships, yes. And also very 

importantly to me too is sustainability. We have to keep the same 

faces in there to develop that level of trust. Unfortunately in the 

past we have not been able to do that. Like I say, I think that’s 

very beneficial to the relationship that we have today. 

Senator TESTER. Steve, do you have any other questions? 

Congressman DAINES. No. 

Senator TESTER. Well, I would just like to, once again, thank you 

all. If there are additional questions that either Congressman 

Daines or myself have, we will forward them on to you and hopefully we can get a response. And for the ones that did not get answered today, I would sure appreciate responses on those. With 

that, I will turn it back to Congressman Daines for his closing remarks. 

Congressman DAINES. Sure. Well, I want to thank all of the panelists today, witnesses, for your thoughtful testimony, as well as replies to the questions. I want to thank Senator Tester as well. I 

really appreciate him setting this up and allowing us to be here together as Montanans to deal with very important issues: Securing 

our Northern border. 

It is also refreshing to have a field hearing right here in Havre 

instead of the normal hearing setting back in Washington, DC, 

where, first of all, it is a lot more humid, Senator, I will tell you 

that. But just the clarity to see the issues here. We talk to people 

here who it is boots on the ground, and it is refreshing to get that 

perspective. 

A couple of takeaways I see here, too, certainly there’s opportunities in terms of how we measure what a secure border means. They 

say you get what you inspect versus what you expect, and figuring 

how we quantify that. 

Debbie’s comments on the opportunities in the commerce struck 

me as well. The upside, they are getting the hours sorted out, as 

well as working these regulations of 14 permits. We have to figure 

out what is going on there, instead of maybe four permits 4 years 

ago. But just thank you for these. It is going to help me do my job 

better back in Washington representing this State and the border 

north here in Montana. Thanks, Senator Tester. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Congressman Daines. I very much 

appreciate your participation in this hearing too. 

And before I get into my closing remarks, there’s one thing I was 

going to say. Chief Richards, the issue of trains came up, Congressman Daines brought it up. But I very much appreciate your 

proactivity on this issue. I think that it is an area that needed to 

be addressed. And I appreciate you stepping up to the plate and 

readdressing that issue. 

We have covered a fair amount of ground here today. There’s 

some challenges on our Northern border. There’s no ifs, ands, or 
28 

butts about that. I think if here’s one major takeaway about it, the 

better that we can work together, the better we can communicate 

together, the better job we are going to be able to do in meeting 

the needs of the citizenry of this great country. 

This is an issue, by the way, that there should be no politics. Oftentimes there is, but there should not be. We have heard politics 

talked today. But the bottom line is, if we can get a partnership 

of elected officials and a partnership of agency folks, along with a 

partnership of folks from local government, I think we can do the 

best job that we have possibly done. And I think you guys are well 

on the road. 

I think back to the hearing that we had 5 years ago I believe 

here. And there was a different response at that hearing, entirely 

different response. So I applaud the folks who testified and the different agencies that are here today that did not get a chance to testify for their willingness to step up, put turf aside as much as possible, and work together for the betterment of security of that border. Continue to work with Congressman Daines on this issue, and 

Senator Baucus, and our Governor Bullock, and the witnesses who 

testified here today to make sure that these issues are addressed 

as we move forward. 

The hearing record will remain open until July 29 for any additional comments that might be submitted for the record. And with 

that, we will adjourn this hearing. 
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