- nA

6,14

64

A, JM

* -N 

r IV

;1 

% %Q * *'

* *'
I{

x/

-EX, LIBI s

UNIVElkSITY of cFLO13,DA o

O

I:0.4

Al IElsCAN
. ~ . * *,7W . p. . 6 . *$~. . .
Digitized by the Internet Archive

in 2010 with funding from

Lyrasis Members arnd Sloan Fourndation

http-//wwwarchiveorg/detaIs/hearingsonhouseb
x4

54Tn CONGRESS, SENATE. DO

1st &ssin. ' 

HEARING-S

ON

HOUSE BILL 35 (ON THE NICARAGUA C

BEFORE THE

C01MMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMMERCE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

GOVERNMENT WASHINGTON: 1896. PRiNTING OFFICE.
-x
HEARINGS ON IOUSE 1ILL :18 PIEDI)E TLI 0 OMIT

INTEISTATE ANb F )BLK miE.

\VAsI UTON, 1.(2., T',itu y, iMui'ch 2

The committee met at 1W. 2) a. Im. ! ( the ip se of a he

House bill t3, onl the Nicaragla Cwatl.

STATEMENT OF HON. W7ARE 37.t 11.LLER, 1K YIE. YO

Mr. CHAIRMAN AND 61 ENTLILN () F1 T1E (omnIMIT I1: I

appear here to day to 'livocate t-Ilw jmsSeI"O of 1o 1J ]f, re 

mittee, or ally otieii 1 bill. Tile N [ Ii l ':Wn! ( ;ij:hy ha

yet asked Congrvess to d(1 aitything ill hiL In, 11 tel, md It iicNeV 

long as I ai at the head of it. NVeVm ioi*iPf I W i! o 

tory of the first movement in C(mlgress il to11( tO &Iis mfl 

what the company ain m slf hid( to do threnwil !l.

First, I want to give a bi'lo hi tory le)Pilo, ;,ii to 11e (nn 

from the Nicaraguan Goverimcnwt now hellH I v til eip1 Y. 

a treaty was itegotiated by Sec4eiavy Fr.liijhuysan, w 

Zevalla-Freliniysei treaty 4ivin' the t; aa ot th

States the right to 1ai)l a cnal tiVPH th ' 1C n lie l of 

from occanI to oceall, .111 giviinl1 it a 11 i eii of Ikin 

sides of the caial; in CIwt, gi!vgn' the t2ovelneu u ie imiiL

right over the entire line. T1ai treA, y PmIO to the d

was a member, aid w m]d n lldmibtedly IvIlve b(een 1) 

been withdrawii from the Seu te by I 'reSIPt 1 dp c t imu

after coming into oflice in his first Adnist at n. T he tv

Withdrawn from the Senate and never reto mvied.

immediately aiter that a muiber of ei e:; a ill Ww Yor

what was known as the Niearamlaa una All cr an. It wa 

incorporation or CPblt ered comliIaily, h)lt siply ai syndicate 

tarygathering to( g'ot hiero twenty- liv P )r t hirty oIilt leNen 11ImIv

chiefly by the representations of Admiral Ainlen: Ar. iei

engineer in the Navy; Comander. how aptai Thylor;

Evans, and other olicers of the Vnited ' ttes Navy who ha

consideration to these ileat is of tile eiial.

This body of gentlemen raised a co-lid Wpahlle :m11 of 'imolie

three himudred thousmil dol lis-antd Sc t 2r. 4 e nwral to N

build years, and Maritime surveys Government Mr. Brietly, Menocal through and with making of Canal operate thosee crtain was of his nearly route Company' Nicara.ua, concessions sent services a coniditions canal under two to Nicaragila, hiuilred across the and which hey gave that direction the seocred Nicaraia coneCsieS years it the ones bcause shall owners of how thw fir be the for the cf he umder cx are the a United hind life eloded es-.-aoas period tow ensidevt ex'i (f a]rw Ilie S for hldfaiadltvs , iye Coni in; n
4 NICARAGUA CANAL

ment, aid w s fniliar witi the route, and his aequnintanee 

peop c and k iorledg e of tle question indicated that he w

sit ab pry Vt i maIke n t ia tis 11withi tle Nica raguan G ov

whilich w\(rev mwade successfilly; anid under those concess

(1Oi11lIy hlas 1been operating ever since.

I ~i Al . Al en al' s rettirni, a company v was Org anized, c

Niivnigr CanIl Cm1stnilctioi Colipav. under the laws of 

(f4 I 4) (Wl;I P, w1i1t a 1wiln iial capit:1a of "' 12,000,000. The con

441t:Iinwd Iby Alri. Al e(ilml wvere trails erred to the Nic:lnlarag C

>- riai ion ('1MIpmIly. Alomey was raised and an expedition wds 

ill NovembelI lSN>7, with Alr. llenocal at the bead of it, consist

li'- mi-bv ol c1ngiII('('rt officers. Aii establishment was Ima'd

l Iwn. aIl1 naly sfir'eyS ol theinal w' Were cOnIunenIccdwvhibi c

41w a erimd (I tihire yc , <S during hvilicli tiinc a large anmaollut 

smwthinll mvr <1000o . was expdel iln enliginecring work 

pwlin pl IIIf 11w the conis truction of tile ca nat. While this 

g 4411 (In the ci 4m1pany became convinced that it ought to have 

frm tile . vernm ii ei)nt 4)1 til 1Uniited States, in order to sectir

p1 t ('1tI 411 ill Nicaro -"Ha ill case of any internal or external 

which m1i iht arise. I) the compaiiy came to the Congo-ress of th

Stule; U Il (' a k1 >cd 1f04, a charter. This clh arter was graniited-a r

1*1' 4.A ss 14) gialit a special ehlarter. This8 charter was g

Febrlla' 20. 1ks 9. and is kimwn as the laritine Canal Co

Nicar'a Ii"a. It provided for the issuance of' l()OOOO,?U of s

j2io.o0oon i1 necessary. It gave the. company all the ordi

ucressmiry power-s of a corporation.

The Nic'l i(i Cadll C4struction Cmpaliy transferred th

sionis to) the Ma ritimlle Caiia 1 C9mpmiv chartered by (011_"Tges

thieii k Pim' e Nl1 wlat might be termed tlhe parent compaiiy, an

hack [r1m tile Ilaritimiie C(anal ComnpavNy the contract by whi

to build the cIInal and turned it over to the MAaritiiiie Canal 

1,(41 the Se14i his 4f that comlpaIny, which it was to take and 

as b st it emld. Tlie ailoi0nit Ofsecrinities fixed was : 1 k50,0 

Ii 112 a owe lnds and : 100.010,000 ot1 stock. The work 

iil le Nicaragua Colistruction (oIpayIV, and the affai

Wri'i1naI >icmala1g2lia C anal Association weve turned over to 

stilctiolll 4y, 111, as I have just expdtined, the concessi

liiallly put ilt() lie ]ld"11 of the Maritime Caiial Company, w

becn ehill eved by C> 2ress.

Il 1114. sp 41r14 ol I 0, ;1 11ter I hal retired Irom the Senate, th

imen hiavi I his Iatt 1r I 1 iit I h(,I. Ie ('allie a )o 114 a nd asked me to 

presidellcy h le Nicara2,Ia 'anal Ct 'mstruction Company. A 

>idlerah)e hesitai l (I till c isidera I imi. I li ially ac4repted it, an

Vy4 r'diS p:1 1 have J vei it 11mv I ile a ild 1ave done 1111 hIa1

i thin II I la\ e ever do e ill aily private enterprise with whic

bceen cmimecled sillce I have bveln ( engaged ill business. From 

-G. ;II1c(, beel in sCI''i m)jetlihin (14w1il o\4ernment~i 1laimn 42)hh iti \u 4)1 dlimii Ii 1'aisvd lnl I ics. Ipimi4 imi11e. 14t1 vAlIe. the 4t 11 11 the 9 by The * ad seniiiles itself'. i Iim-hiery O1l4' I 1 * The 1'" v ciial hat PaiN( the ,um 704 wo'k. comipiaIy c within 10,0011). icl,'SSimls ill 1 sh1)4l4 aiid' Id, and 1 cash Iisc2d ;ieilvices a tile 1 year it 1), comitin be before comp was rchlired, Imlyself. )ulde at i s to I leist 11 ny48 fr became the be persinally, hi4g within first. I, w6.hi approved 2,)0I,)00shoul1 and Iiiachiiierv ()Vr lich its tat I eih.iteeni also 43,000. the president, the and by comiiany pr(iiled and final 000 the 11)mithIhat be Inl

by ,N

anw's
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

When I came into the service of the company I foluid much 

$1,0,00 iad beeni expitnd ed upl) to tlihat tille, an1d tiat tile t

would expire on the 1st of October of that year. So I went to 

push the enterprise ra1idlv, a id in order to comlly with the 

sion and expend k2,000.006, which we were comlled to expen

the first year. I began work, and as a result of it r conls

railroad eleven and a half miles from Grevtowni across the hg( 

the point of the first lock. This was a substantial railroad, bu

very great difliculties. During that entire seasmin the hmd fro

town to Lock No. I was under water, because it was the rainy 

The water was tromu 2 to 4., feet deep, and thIe gr iu nd was ,I \v

tropical vegeIt atiol. I was told by railroad mIen and ciginee

could not build this within tile time, and that it could oily be 

putting up trestles ant piles the entire distance. I was not 

with that judigmel t, ald finally called inilto counsel Mr. C. P. 

Chicago, a youg, energetic mani who had made a fortune ill 

building railroads. Ile 1h8d spent imonths goillg over the propo

Awith a view of making a bid upon a portion of the work. I a

if he c imld build a railroad int the lagoon within the time at 

able price.

The object was, of course, to enable us to (get into the f'othaills 

locks and tihe great divide e, because the leng th of time require ed 

the canal was based upon the length of time requlirefi to build 

an d en t the d ivide, a distance of 1, miles from (TriytowNii. 1Alr.T

to iNicaragna. I sent an ageit to Jamaica, and lie sent a large 

of worknicit from Jamaica. I sent rails, ties, a1d a work inr t

the work began with 1,600 men. The g'romid ii was unlder water subs

tilly tile entire distanlce, and tile men worked ill the water du

whole time. The railroad was constructed by cutti&g down t

bullion ma corduroy road some 4 feet in thickness of solid w

entire distance. Upon this the track was laid, and sa1d (dred

the mouth of the canal) carried by train was put uion this te

track or wooden road until it was buried in the sand; aid ill 

the road was built for the entire distance, and to-day, after a 

five years, it is in fair order. I have passed over it at the r

miles an hour.

The road was constructed within the time at a cost, which o

will show, of k32,000 a mile, and was completed perfectl

included 10 per ceit commission 1)aid to Mr. Treat for doing t

w

We employed 1,600 men all the time, and but seven or eight 

four of those were killed by accidents upon the road. Only fo

died from the effects of the climate. I speak of f hat to show 

Nicaragua, is not so unhealthy a climate as has been general

sented. All these statements which I make can be verified 

rec rds of the compaImy.

We also purchased at the same time the entire dredging 

the work the to remains which this 6,000 comipany, a depth a American actual pier at feet. depth was Panama of to a under excavation 14 show to distance The ofet Dredring make 17 stress and construction for over feet the itself. which of of of the 1,000 a Compaiy, enitranice the finiancial distaiice originially bar, We canal of feet; and this also difficulties, into at which finallyt of pier, cost bean Greytown was the nearly had with it mainitamied harbor the is done was 2 a Iito 82,t0, coistriictim miles, little arbor, comapelled safe. substantialbe extendeat dredgi and 00. We that to etW
- ( d 1o [I 4 11)dHIS I l 4! d I) I U S 1)l2 1 1 1 1 1 1 ( , 1 !I I I I \ .1, 1 n

"I 1111 s1A Il uJ Si ;ljII fl.4 IIa I1 ,4' ;I I1(:: 1P 1womVqUI 1 1 1

Xq ' I1A\ jUli-.f di -pI' Ii up uVai 4.dda .)\ .11 [pi' [., IIU . 

1 4 utt1I IJ 41 ); 1 40 j 1. x 11 1 1)II I Iu. I IV I' I (q I 

Sp, I nt . u tu ~ I II ) 0 1 1tq 1 i nI mg ,. It )(t 4 1 111s spit 

I I n I I ) I I II)IIq oj A o m loT f. 1[, I A t JUo ()I I

1A I'lo I 1 1 ts I 4; J 1(d I t I I!

Iq It II14 1, ) 11 1i 1d o ., -I I' [1 t' I + pp I

it9 1:1) (1)A 1 1 04 11 4 111 * 1 1 111 11 11 11 

oI II I I A )p I Iuo i IO A 1 > 111 at I I kU (iI a U : I I I I I I I p I I I 

'41 1U)II1 j4) B .q ()un I1 l I IA I: I. I Il I

I ( 1 [ itt ) I ]()I I I I (I 14) 1 I I [ " 1 1 81 1 i AAt I 1t1iI J u 1 

8 1 41111 . 1 .m1 1J U 1 1 [ [ I) I-) [ I)

I I l)4 'o1 IL1 j 8:b iU. j1 Il AX flt I Iu 4[)t t11

Iut Iusq I" d a~its I u " 0 5"! M IJ I I I A II)

jo [ I 0140 1 m~ ) q I T I I 1 1 1 f~V~8 11 4 t I 11.I

041( [ O A ' I I t lo I 'I I} II I .1 I III i 9.' Ip 

ao I I It 4( 11 11 41 Ai 0. 111a A 1 I P!A I 4 1 I U . I I I I I

o I-I~ I Is I IIpI 1 1111 I LI0AA 111 1 a I I 1AI: 1 lt] 1l.)l ( %I 114

JO 4 011111.IAt 11 I il L II ( .IU II. .o x I I q I 1 1!% -.o8 4 1 - 

-P 'IV I) U iI IIII41OSU 1 -1 1( 11 y4 1 14 141 1 s I 

I ! I I 1 1 o14 141A I lTh11 s1 o psI4I NI IP IIII I IdI I I 

-ufl( lI jT I o Im 1 II 1-(1o OAm I!, 08 JIWm pa ww pIIa loU

0U1 o ss.1I! ) '1 I! i( 1 J) it u IIO a 0I [)8 ( 1I) 4144 IO il 111

01 M O)1) o[N) I I I y ) s11o~ J1,.l) *l -Nt j4 q1 I p11 I 1H I.~ I1~ I I, t 

14 1 ,i lj 111 jo I. 1, I Ik.u ( I jo EVMI nn I.I4 A JI 

AIM 41 p11 :.11 8 411 pl)1'j11no A10 j ufpp q Ij 

-dOAX~ p~ ag4 pit Ulas I111Iip11 >tt ,-< A Vg 1p 11 d I~ p J

.Inudmio; pp o gI j samujll: ,lt -pto a-x . 'U AlurI km 

Solluoul t1.1 4 .1o oll! 4110s 'I') pi uI .I O Il Np piu 

V

11A4 00 (1111( o U T A 10, l jo splw q 14o 1 f4

) i uWl lfoImai

-rLVNIl1tSJ Ju\m IoI Inoa jqoit HOIig I .ppVi 

Itoll[m 1 I' d moo jnl ud: oll- )(1 p~jj }lml }", Imo !il 's I 

plipip (q ) 411 o.,)() o I ) I n uo,) - 4; Il[Utw lna : Q JI!o

04 pagaodmoO u *t1Tulk Iumpj ';i o )II pulg [ i i , 

d04 Mmp 'mI "H i p u ph u o m ' 101" mMp TI 'I"g I l( -upt

04); o lu 4 p y m upuln lu n w orw, 0.1111pq pu p tt

III Iag ' o t ia I oolgjo [Io I,o lt, IIIm,- pi lN an s oltj -nlopit

j

Stiqu!poultil -siloijullo Oo oil ttl0 I)III),Np"M Og l !" 111 "I

ano ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~- jom jll-ol it! lpu omna lo ol. 

01 II titpA)'4 ,,, 11T)MOd si'm ,-)Il -oo-* T 4soo (1puOIgp ,k o 4If,4Ioj '111110d A 1 lg os t)(1 P111 jtm o4  pu !'0,)Ipd (fi I! q 01q1 ponk 11 ut pfrs llppliq II a ot pill I  41,q1 Stil 1 j 10a o l plot )IIg ,I op *411) I.4, aloI P,) jo I t 1a mtI P,14,pinu I a i I m 1 S, ,so ou s t)an T!I Ig 1-4 -11 I II)\N) I s 1 I g ) IIIIII1q 11u i 11!'' 4m,11 It -ppo hM), Im l uoi p I-paq:) I oq tlp koqs 1 tgp'I'A\.ap p ,ill a Iiumai , 0 ,u s 11 Im u Ia a II I11 M t j 1 ll Iu 1 ) Np()m o a I 11 Ia >p I f 1Timt pt oo 1 Ms 1 ),Iojp% III AI( n jo ) i I It d j I m it s pi 4.!1 j
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

ably be necessary to seenre the bulk of the money abroad." 

said, " Where will the control be then, if the majority of the 

held abroad ?" 1 replied, " Of course the control will go to t

furnish a majority of the money with which to build it, and th

be the case." lie said that ought not to be. It ougioht to be 

iwan enterprise, and we ougi'ht to raise the money am id m e it c

by the American people. I said, "Seniator, as a patriotic 

agree with your statement that it ought to be ai American en

and we ought to make it sueh and keep it as such ; but my (lu

stockholders is to get the mn ey where and Inv I can."

A few days afterwards, I received a let ter fiomn the Foreig

Committee of the Senate askl ii me to conie to Washi ngton to 

illed by tit conmillittee (d the Senate in executive Session. 

ai(d reimlainleid here 1Or several I days. It tillrnied out then that 

Edmunids had intOdIlneed into the Senate in executive session 

tion instructing the Cominittee on Foreign A fiairs to inquire 

condition of the Nicaragua Cao al and the Maritihi Ce mil

report to the Senate what the e)lldition of it was, mni what, if a

the Con gress of t le United Sta s ougiit to do in reard to th

Then thino-s went on for several weeks and months. I mad

Visits to this city, beini g called by the coii ill it ce. The comn it t

said to mtii that th1eV thought as a commun ittee the Govelnmi e

United States ouglIt to be interested ill this cliterprise, and 

ought to control it. a81( a Skeil tile t(O siate upoN wha t terms t le 

would be williii&g tir the G(-oven Inent to go into the eiterpiise

"I will go back to, New YVok and consult lie Wadl1in stockho

will ive you an answer." I went back to YNew ork, and 

with the leadinge men ill thee (itelprij) e, titil replied by letter to 

Shierman. cha imaii of the cnnui itte, llha I: ill oit r jidgmi cit t

hole's of tile Nicaragna Canal C o ma iy would be willing 

Goventinenit shn nil d take 04Nt of t114he comp illy, provided 

return to us the amomnit of money that we had expelled 

enterlpise up to i hat time, and also give us stock of the MLuri

piany to whatever amount they saw fit as a bonus, or bouilty

tille and energy we had expended and the risk we had taken i

our monev into the enterprise.

The members of the committee exp-essled their belief that 

a most liberal oll'er upon Ou p8rt. Th viuliTtee upo kI ihe 

of that prep ared a report a111d b ill, which iwas repiorted( to til

The terms ( of thI bill I do not re0m1(mlcbeir, but thie rec(ord will show

what they were. It provided for the returui of the money 

expein d-d, tund provided also that the Secretary of State and 

retary of the Tri-c:,suuy shoud audit our accNilfts and ( detcri'u

al1mil1nt we had exi eided, aid alp piovided for "iVig 1s sm

stock of the Ma cit ime Companiy as a bos or our time, tro

risk. What that amount was, I have now lorgotten. No a

had again,nd( in of Europe. prise, inmrtance tion During the nearly gave upo1 of endeavoriiig Chambers and the them I every that all asked American had of illy this the bill; ctymade of 11e suggestions. time, Commerce, iudert to of but athree people ga educate mu in I ahing, the imitnee had to trips iiext in come and tile threh)y traveled taking to *ear other. before in people the the stock the seekig Pacilie bodies over the (Tni of s:me aid committee, tedhe the C ill to committee bo: ast. States, re2aI conlitry seen United ds I ; t wh

b1tothO but118tO St

t
8 NICARAGUA CANAL.

wherever I wefnt, that after the Senate Committee bad report

bill, the people gen terallyV cdame to the conclusion that it oug

GO(1iVerfmlnlit enterprise tad be colit14lled by the G(OVernmiien

of by private individuals. The peOPle said that if they put th

11t10 it, the GImeirimiiient will Comlle in and take the canal an

simphy vget a return of the noney. without any esp cial pr

allowed fOr the risk which we may take. I then came before 

nittee with this knowledge.

I l tad traveled tvercou cmntry three times. atiost 50,060 miles, made

sp(eechlI es. and writ tell 11ma Ny articles. I told tile em ill ittee w

IounId io be the opinion oft the peole-timt 1he G vernIment 

Control it. I sa.id, "If yoU wait to go oil with this enterpr

make thlIns slitorestiol n: L et the GoV\erlinnilt goaia utee the 1)onIIds of the

complily ftor whIatever aniult Imay be 1iecessary, and for thi

erCeinllt cal take a d put into the Treasury of tihle United St

$To,0(oo00 or , 80,000,000 of tile stock 4)f tile comlpamiy, (Ind 

own it, becmise of this g4lianilty. upoll the smile principle th

pys aimother 5 o1 10 per cent for inidorsitig ' his note." The G 

to inidorse the bonlds and receive three-fthiiits of the sto(ck, ti

it g the conitroler of tile situation. Ilhe (JO eXnmI inUlt w Is 

tell if the fifteent directors, ald one director was to be app

Nicara ua and one Iy Costa Rica: the thlikd would be elect

outside stockholders. Sbl)5tanmtially, that hind of a bill was 

the exact leri s of which I do Iitt 11Nw rer'all.

Time Went on. and hist Winter this Same bill was reported 1

4 irgali. with some elaiges, and it finally liaissed the Seinte. 

p1Iiny was miot en rely sat isfied with its terms, becanse it 

compally nIo power whai tever ill deciliin g Ihow mulich Imioiey h(d beeni

expettdfd y tle comilpilmy, and whether the expenditires wer

j

ight. It provided that the Secretary of State and the Se

the Treasury -1iould be the absolute jud ges as to the aionit 

by the company. We thought it ought to have been decided 

mlission, of which the compilly should appoint one aind the (I)

appoint oie. and I iey, failing to aree ipoll any latter, shou

the third, ald theli their decision was to he final. The amltou

Set aipart for us was less than we thought was jlst, but we 

spmeiall comp ill a 'it,11 I presmllle timt if the bill h1 ad been passed and

become a hw the stockholders would have surrendered th

a1nd woNNld lmIiye oi venl tle (Governent the entire colnt rol. 

as al1 t uicer fl, tile ctrpwration was briefly this: The Gove

per cent gularatitee for the building tile of the Ioids canal, andat c 

the rove tues of the cal1 were to be set ipart first-supp

canal to cost, ini riund figures. a hundred million doll

millions to Iay interest

iAlr. PI)AIlv,1':1swN. WIat is the amount of the capitalizatio

000,000 

iIpIrvI\in4r in debt. Suez be t:Hizatiol. refused 1,*OIjm,)00 We sixty ir. the Calal, 3M The Iwmner eitiler to LLERu. ealr's have (GoverttInmi w8s the atitd sou the ft Caiil, \es, etimiated %.4:70.000,000 anything ,;1,0000000 ght siiki enlt nor ir: which wuild i the opposed flind to as was or capital was do the never .01,4S0.)0(,Ooo Woildi to with about the be probable was imv put have passages the 0(1adiivtced the notintoti of elltirel passage cost t cost the a of be sinking y $100,000,00of tlhat of disposed paid of a IIIlintaminiiitcent, any bill. off f'uitl
NICARAG'rUA CANAL. 

This is the first time in five years that I have ever appeared 

House committee, or mentioned the matter even to the Mlemb

House from my own district. Mr. Sherman, the Member froi 

trict, can tell you that I never presented the matter to him in an

whatever. I said to Mr. Sherman that I would not come bef

committee unless I was requested to do so. We have never a

a hearing, and under no circumstances will we come here to 

thing. If, following" out the suggestions of Senator Mor

Senator Edmunds, the Congress of the I itited States sees fit 

measure which is just and fair to us, undoubtedly the stocklold

are nearly all Americans, will accept that decision and turn 

control of this great enterprise to the Government.

Mr. Su~rnA1 . You might say further, that you declined 

express an opinion to me of your preference as between th

which I handed you.

Mr. MILLER. iNot (lly that, but I have not read them. l

declined to read them. We htave felt that if the people of th

States thought that this enterprise mught to be an American en

we as Amierican citizens would ]lot stanltdl in the way- ot it, io 

what our prospective profits ill such enterprise imigh t 1)e. It is 

years si 1ce the Goverinmenit first took it ill), and we hav-e felt 

eral years that we had a cause of grieva ice against the (Gh ver

this ma I ter, for, since it became iie known that tle Set ate was col

it, and had reported a bill, it became substantially iimnpossib1 

any money anywhere.

The Ainerica n people had said Coingcress ought to (10 this, s

can control tolls and run the canal for the benefit of the people

Foreig~en bankers have said: " e can itot take t this p now, 

by the time we have raised aid expen]ed several m1illimos o

Govern meit of the United States will step in and take it aw

us, and we shall get inothing, but our cash in return. In othe

our profits will never be realized. and therefore we will not 

until the G;overinient of the United States has decided wh

do." We have been ill this Coinditiol that durinitg all these yea

been impossible to raise money, except from the orgil al sulb

Now, these men who have firnished imioney and hia1ve been 

themselves to keep up the property, keep up ait office, a1id all 

essaiyexpenises con i teeted with ani enterprise like this, comld not 

it entirely. The result has beeni that the old subs rihers h

compelled to add to their subscriptions. Whent the comipainy 

ganized every one of the old stockholders who were able rema

paid their assessments of -8.50 per share.

Mr. DoOLIrrLE. What is your belief relative to the abilit

company to raise money, if the Government had nit interfere

not taken the matter up ?

Mr. MILLER. I have not any doubt that, if there had not b

interference I dial ment to bends was Since spirit.Mnce was obtain met support matter, 1893 1893 appealing of at everywhere the money. low the weon American and until would financial prices, the to IThe the part thislound have withwhich American situation company people of matter that been th Congress, would proposition private andble washas would people, foreigners. to have introduced been we individlials get have could and that appeared bad, 125,000,000. been received it have and into ouiglit I would have justified ito raised Colt has everywtohe noto gressben be spthdoin ta 
III to ' I I I).1 U I I 1 4 )1 1 111> I. I( !! I, [ I 81 1 11 111 3! 1 [ fil x8 1 0 40 

-1n~lls SY m Uq3 8 AIN 41 - p ()1p 1 'gII(1IsH 

P . jo s )u la') ,Iv 1" 0111 wg In u aj n i[p gg u

- 11(~)}. 41 B A 11u l1 ~ 41 3At{ 10 BU s1 1 111i JO )'0 IJO 

-o1S0 A 1 iiiio Jh 1 0 - n 0u1 114p) 1[uBA ;dtl(Il ' u(l 'I' w '14111 gg op ll.ssod

~~)lI4~II fit[ -,.,I1 JIiA .Zm T iil., l34 I ppi 4ll vlf I{ 1 . [) ll' )[I([ 1) 

41(4 41' Ij p 4V1[4 4 10 11(41 8Blj WId pIllu t xIi -11 IwI[ .ui[ Iq' lU0\ljJ M 14 1 - lsq

8.1u0p88 11111 1g 1 I [4 Ip1q Xi l IPC

1081111. iJJ 8)iI Nl031 311(1 4.IOA I844lt 'OIV ( l A

-!j gi) ) la .1hl j lA [p u i 114'111 p) *)IA.Ids tI[ x 411 1 8 p1 s,

pill 40 0dB) 0a111 '1p) 0111W.) .T i[i .

'It ll p1 1 8)A. 111 ul ( '- -10UI!A \ 4 ! u' l1 INd 0 11 10 0MoS' i 

-j4 0s d 31oI s1p1 1 *slj p-4J s 'w( jllp1s II0ipTic O I

p01 luu.T 'Illu 031 m( 3lt sits AJOA a Il.\ UKon -Ikl plw' l1t .14'jl 1:a 111( 11r l" B 8.pi' )III pas 48l[1[ d 1) oI

g

It )[ 4110,11 1iO s d[4p mm (n.:V i e . [ 4 1.14 -H ISAp: Io[ 

.418'ddlI811\ k~11LU*1d~7 BA\T~t,,8 44I)GA o.\ ~d1

-lild, 0p Jt duoip ) t)1 . ()Jul ' -aU)i, 4 I 3 oow ooo:4 t4 nIl

pint11U10}110 -a1t 14im i it - 0*

1 -AB l - puu .OlK uit u 

Oti4 o41 u pBtJ 14)~([O0I 8Ap X ' 4 1 \ 40o[4 ~ d.1T -.t 0il[A0; 

_ko' iuo ,tp jimu "pmt, , tap ')pu P)l 4umaoi-go

101 jo avd'.7 0nl4 Tot , 4 .4111 1 [p1ui) 4 Jim Vm4 1 p 'd 01 

o'.od-lid 'iwlt 'l.jp p a x inOld u' ,Olli 'Olqls dml uoq a

u-) ol) a0V4 01 o') j1Am lh) J i t i [J '10(ld4 Aiq .110! 11OA PISJOSII pII!

0OlU JOT 01L) M1111QJ ljd 8I lj UA d.H4 4 i dtl11 U\1L11 3 l4j

Jt O8d 1H1 1411\ 814l 4 ~ 0[ 04IA04*1 

IU~~dI x~l4id 1 1 1 L Ti:'l 4P4X 14041111) O140I~ 

SLIM 0. O0I , ki A odI p. ) p 4 -) fil -!os .H l4p lodb) 04 ,m[ A o i 1114 ill

-dU S,'0 1 q 4S A 0o0I J0A'0j1 i lA n a ol poll' 1_A PII p'"IJO' mutll

-1110.) O[4. JO 108 U11Oil I OII o I4A '4 1i1, OKW)O 1 ! J4V l, IV~i' 

j

-nom pKaanuon 0(t ptim) 11),11 smo ' o 1 quo , 0p lpI po III

u I0a4pd 1111jAI ju t, I It 4 po1 1 A41 l 4 I.( It 03 It 11 8s0

-i d 011108dJo Oplt JO[ 11oI1 purOll dil nT jupo j11 {odSUd4! 41'111

YAOVIIV;-p No nU uoiu o XL TIV aaq NV Osa OO A u Aur LIu j 

-Ta osop 

-e dol v ou itp p t)(11, [))11o 1 1n it ,w ll - I . 1(- 1n al p r 

uV1somit )ml'ammdo ,[a pul 111 ('Imj poq s 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

because Mr. Menocal, the engineer of the company, who has ma

surveys, two of them for the Goverimient, tuid who has spe

years in examining this route, is perFectly able to defend his 

and estimates. I hving the report of the (iomnmissiou before 

has preparel aml submitted for your use an elailmritte disc

this question from every standpoint, aln( as pre,-ident I alm 

willing to stnmd upon that argrunent before the best enginee

world.

When in London our plans were submitted to Sir Johni C

was the leading engineer of Engh2,llhi and ( who philineid ani1d 

mainy important harbor vorks for ti e En lish Gvennent. lie 

the plans for several weeks, itil i i was t1oromi (,h v fmli iiil ar with them.

Ile said that they were practcJ , tand the oily change h

mended was that the cut th1rm oug the (reat rock divide sh

increased from 80 to 100 feet in wiidth, but tiat the harbhors 

town and Briho were correct ill p4an, tin(d if caied wit wNoll

tw-o gYreat safe harbors tor this c(ur1. I simply mention that 

we have to rely upon the te tinmyOv of eiglicers, and we hav

John Cood a imaii wlhsw opin ion vs worth muelI in a great w

this, and it is prop~r and just ti at I shiou Il refer to him.

Four years ago when I went to Nicaragna I spent more 

exalm 11 ing the line thall thiis Comn vision spent, fOr they on

fourteen days on the lIine of the c:11l, and thieve ae ' Darts o

never saw. When I went over the lIne, I to ik with me -ir. Do

one' of the prilcipl lengiiieers of the 31 a tichesuer Ship canal, n

engineer of the London 1(eks.

Ile made a thoroug'h, caret'l, ad elaborate study of the c

the plans of our (on : 11 iy, a1l r(e" pi Hed to hi pi cipa s, 

Walker & Co., contraetnrs, t hat the ena] was feasible. and 

cost of the cml wouli be less than 1

AMr. APiTLETT. Ii tile roirt of tihe G over Imn elit 1I te m 5oisi

it is -stated that there is nto precedent for the construction 

such as the Ochoa dam.

Mr. MILLE1. I will cne to that. If this Cmm1isi Ni had hii 

experience ill such itters it w hit\(l aV kl1mi letter. I 1ln

that the chief has been sent ar amId to examni c similar works. 

if the Government had sent 1im Iha abroad bere Ite made hIiis i

tions in Nicaragua lie would have beel better able to have s

regard to it.

Tile report of the Cmmiussion lemils nd cads by criticising 

of the cii i-ilieer, but the C(ollnii issio is cii WiIoeled sub-Il alit illy 

that finally the work as planned eani be dole. Tie Urst po

they make is that the entrance to Grevtown I Habor shall 1 b

about a mile anid a half to the cAist. Tle reasm i iven 1,61. i

value whatever. The citrace as 18(itid down by tile compa ni

original entrance where, in ISO1 811d 1 80,O (luring the Califb r

excitc)Ilent, harbor nturally would place, have It feet less Mr. can of cost completed but PATTE~rsON. water be for thami snppsed where oiliy mailitailled many vessels without the extelided the one years. cost went that How pier existed difficlty, at 1 a the in little 6,000 nit dd maintains (ood with pier ma finally you cost. feet. iy and place overut constict years ine a, where it LO){ 20 to lar It would tile feet before, we mlake feet entranlce was we that lad of have anId aH could water. forced. and picrl laid entralice t"ot been to th1ev have 1lmliey the 14 it m;iliTile feet adpw8s obtaSueto w
12 NICARAGUA CANAL.

v. MILLER. It wa constructed by p)uttiiig dowIt piles in 

Ilade it 10 feet wide and illed it ill with stoHe and concre

the work was c(OIInIun(ictId on tlht p4itit the whole emginee

has c(1me to adopt I Cepe(l m1fliethod of buildigtie. Tliek gr

water (m dw 4 I oumibia 1iver scmstrueted by driving pile

leln. Ith of tle proposed pier aiid putti ig' a railroad on the top

t i wrk v5 I'c nied 4mt a id placd th enlitive lengt1h )t' tile p

11itin ) wiIat is knH own as rii prp or a o104 se wall projecting 

tile fowce of the waves is destroyed. The reas.Ini the waves( 

anv harm'l1 is that there is a gradual slope, al I the force of 

is 1r)l- k I ld 114 a is dole the Imiaiii w rk. It is uipon 

timt tile ('reat breakwailers are now built.

Mr. I'1"FTEuSON. Are these woodeti piles not siject to be

by the tore(10?

-\It. \ ILu. Thiey woAld be ill time: but they ii'e only a 

structure. I t4inl1 theum in Imlsterul )V my visit P1 toll

hiave built pier-' there (m tile ph1,111 ( t hle AE,1(ls jettlies :t fie 

thil ssi ippi liiver. h'ley 'Ire breilkwIters 1111iit w ith i-ip

sides, with art iticial ston)e b0l4kS 1)'Ied witi louse owik. 

ofl tliat kiiid of stiri'ctiuir is t1imat the w yes come ill aild l

this work without doiin' any iarm. ()r work was built 

piles mal pllttInlg a rlilno'41al trick lipm I1 .alb 11i g 

(h11ilmpinio it in1to the ocean, making d I14 a pier wIlicli the wV I\'e

destroy.

Mr. IPAT' EitsON. Aiid the rock excavated issd fr th

Alr. M!ILLER. Yes, sir.

,Ir. PATTERsON. What is now the condilimn of the can

yol have conlstirlucted il oit rm Greytown1 thr i'u)I the a

Mr. AlILLEI. Tie C mmiissioii rep ts11 tiat tie b1mcks sta

diclarl y, just as they were bIilt five years aI. TIhere h

cTaile. The damin age there is im uch less tlim it is ill a iio

tr'y oil acfoult of the climate, there beim g 1o frost. It stand

rep air.

III reference to the entrance to the harbor being moved 

a ialf east, I w(Ilild say that, ili the first plwe. we (1011141 n

because the Nicaragui overiiiielit would 11(It alv us 

I

It we wiN'it there we wNolll be in C4osta Ricai territory, :n

cession demands that tle canal shall begin ald enl in Nicav

it Iv. Th( liie dividii th two t it i's a sh 1rI lt (ist

east of tle eli tnice :: the hab11)1r. It was ilitur l to si

we w4 u1l go whlere ti' w(rk w uld be 1Imne the tsii'st a 

41i1 investigation will show lIht it would have coi. *,.040

bl ill it whi4e'e t le 4Oml liiiSSionl s e thila where it is 11

Air. PA- TTik-N. XW hat is i le estimltcd cost of impliov il

lMr. IIiE . We w ill fniish that to yl. It is ill the eli

rVIa.1 a r.11n qulite Iimte;s. ll;I el( C1ilinissioil 11111's 1;1: 0n over n1g( .C bwelh "Is 1s tiv Thi'e til well 11(Ikept Ve ac e 1,000 (d lil(e line (&rt til n s ( ill is [,()I l'w s41 mile 0 startill line Ithe 41'n lthe O It. tll. w i Tl Ilr pr,n('iit Cmnni : isggsta Th'le i 1114, hi4\ ll(, * little r. Irom Tll(, ' 1TIvel c'illg, Com company ill directill >> GIrevtownl si' Ol'der i bY Toll l' w0Id n11 but ilhe recommends l it) 111c spent makes 'l Ilwimdiie. to 54 -llave I ,Ipe llt, lnI'boi ; ll 11m tlehc n1o to t 4(d, inthsI'11 -It provisiOi 1 for llhat vdid hll ide We lm"11thm10f ( m miles emiltv tlio l thliI)It ,4'fwl f
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the river. -Mr. Menocal's argument will show coniclusively the 

tion ill thmt respect.

We next come to the question of locks. They admit that th

are all right. They say that the lift cal be made without doubt

suggest, however, four locks instead of three. The object of thi

stated. Of course it would fincrase the toSt and the length of 

would take for a ship to go tb rough the canal. There ein be 

reason tor it. Instedl of diminlisliing' the lifts, it is quite possi

those lifts mihit be done in two instead of three. With II

machinery in 1. ance they lift more thaim 50 1'eet in a sin e lilt

In short, tI is n1ot a single recomlteni(ation of tle Com

which is not ill thie (1irectioni of illreaed cost. It would also 

the time w wotld vich be taken to buid the emiial. It would se

they supp osed theV ee representing a Governm1iienit work ill w

an1U lit 0 mey was unlimited, and the question of cost hiad 

to do within it. Th1iS company started out to build an a vaihib

whlici would aec(m ite the com merce, an1d do it at the least 

cost. Tihat haiS ben the plan upoii which railroads and cana

beenI built. T ie s'i e) Ca1al, the 4reat pi'otOtype of all canals was built

first to a, depthi of -(; feet, maw was so arrow that vessels co

pass, a1d every 4 or 5 miles turnouts were made, so that vesse

pass; but tiow they, having made a great success of the ca

depelilig it to 8)0 feet and increasing it to the width of the p

Nicaragua Can al.

Our (caal was laid out with a widtlh of 1'25 feet on the bottom

Commission propose to reduce it to a width of 80 feet for the 

miles from Greytowni and make turn-outs, \whiich w-%ould cost as 

the plan of the com pany woull, aid it would be impossible for 

to pas)5. Thec only possible reason we can thin k of fo.- their 

these reconinendations is that they did not want to a-Ipprove a

tlat the engineer of the colmIpany had done. They c(ia1ged th

from 125 feet at the bottom for the ist 10 miles, and farther 

propose differeiit widths ilIp to 100 feet, simply, I suppose, beca

engineers of the company hld decided uipoii the other widths.

We then come to the divide. With that they find no fault, e

say that we have not made borings. They claim we ought 

made morel& borings, so as to be sure of it.

Mr. PATES N. Did you Jiid the smne material in your bor

Mr. M iLLEiA. Yes, sir. There is no tendency of the rock to 

disinteg'rale. Tile iimdicAtions of ceiituries show the characte

rock to be absolutely fixell.

Mr. PATTEROIzN. It is of uniform formation?

Mi. MILLER. Yes, sir. We have been able to show exactly w

rock is. Between this mil the divide at Ochoa Comes ill the dam 

enbamkments have to be built. They find the embankments 

built. Tile only serious thing which the Commissioners say abo

that pose Capitol. Ochoa feet. ei whole to ght Mr. 40 in that miles in PATTERSON. MILLER. Tlicre damcase hplan. all. is ?romu of true. are Ochoa WAe war We Greytown, six now somebody I You have damlocks suppose, coine have thre is in direct some to might all; too,wo locks Ochoa 50 across, but that locks to destroy on 60 the dam. ech somebody as miles between Commissioners the it side, This with down canal making might Greyown is dynamite. the goes. the blow river th recokey 
uivp o)u 4po I ;)4TIII 4! pur r i 

-14; .11 lp I II 1[A 1 pU .m p1riA '41 I1Ul4 

T oatiUtid4 i11 pil 1q) .1o1 0t Ili 4 )i)-\\ pLql 1:I' )I ILL:I 1: ( 1 11 )It l l[ t

l ji q tl: l .1 0A[ l iij %11[ t1,U1. 11101 'OK 41 H ' A Oltj U AW14 1 

'gil d)8l )Iosu 4 p d1' 11)0 11 1 a8ti 1'H I 34) 

81'.jp Ti lulll jIl f ) It 1 111 1(1o Iso'B tldlik j 1! j.1 j 11 1J n'11111 

0ilo tu lsiloo ! I ( dso[wll . I ,h1l- j 4 .'o') [ul I pAI1 ,)

1i Wp 41 1 ti o 1a 1j 1) Nl .141 tos o A[u .I SL

dPalu'L nU! U 41!1 1 AI III { A[ d.\lIZ j it pu: 1 1 ) I1 111d11.

i pk Il101 ApI -Aliop "1mp 1 4 1 '.I 71lfl d 1[[ .4 I 1A\O4 SVA

pasha ) q AI 0.ldl[ )I 1 ''l m u1. l m 11 P

III!;) aal'Jim0I 11o 8) 'sljj A pilp 11HJ, *A O : Q11 ) 1111l. dj I

OAMIsu a g pul,3an u 1sjl) Ol lup-Ot ]II) Iw .'Mipll ll un

- wilml 1uV d1-4 .1031 110 lIIl! OACU lIol 1.4 ~~ Oi It~p Stl > u8Alpi

im); Jdtl[a 4 01)1111 ii oII, a~ 04[ j 1!14B114 'I wI 41n i m\tI

quill qopI,1'n iwo Ilj .~L1 1.[l) l [id D)J 4114Al>SIi ,8h11,1\1 C SI H[ TW 

JIod -W J4)l pO d A q 8 1111 T\ 1) p op 114 I I 1

P .4Jf n1iA o 1 1P1 l l 014 i 11 1 A l 1 i1i .p<1 ,,4 )lul 

1a0 h q1t olp. u p .11 1 ), a i 14 A Ip 1 P

pill 4I1 Oto3i4 , 01)1111 0A 4 *tlVA\ -)![ A)I1 d 11t 'mill

mil., 4 4~1P~ dlo op~ lidul) Ad IIJIAm~ dl4mlI;OA 1 1 l 1 :1 1(11)

-4,1 (L d O ll J jl IOA S' 11 ItO I (1 )4 0110ji 114) II 1,) 11 j 'l o 

po ll il) o m1)( ):(O I11 It I00 I-i1 K-lu tia l ;)10 Ill li 1111( '),11) (I 

Sq iIdA 011045 )A ltk11 Sptowliv l .) pold4 I iiImt dll US 

f11( f~ 41 A i 011 4111 II lllhl I NIP to lm-Illy p~') Il l j 01,) I '' 

~0f~.Ii.~Udq .1431 ~~ll'1114m s i 3 L0 1(1 s lio 0J ('~j l) ([

Xpul o lpu[ t d Ill uO loo , 01 j~ 0011 .')u,) JK'I() 1~~ jpml T113 114

W hit I I 101 -.1t1 .)1il o~il poll III I)1 01 )IIC Tl , 11Op ) oqi l U1lu 

04 v1 (m 1)1 I!P iu ii 8111 34), IjbIo 11. 1

r )([1! () s4 I U T

S030 q lIlil) .Imd\ )11t (),j pp1 d Iii ll sr '~' 'I 'ds [P[ d Ill 134 otA. )

1111T 11114 10p * ld A rdiUl" l s81 .10 4111[ s1Vlij)1li30(,11I~ 

04IW pu l i~Tl (-)I O114j m 4 "Imp To Ii sIIU\7P lllll~ 11

Ipr1 111 Olp1A 04 ' 0Alj lTlli~o~wd p 11111 po~~~~~~l~ ~ ol~ 110Plu ~ oll~ ~ ~ ~ d ~ Ilq ~~~~~~~I i ou J 'IVXY3 si11 *-'11, 78 400 sp iil lo- 01 4l \AnV1pI -)I4 j! .4)(r~m 41t o1 81i lI.X mpo' 41I1 .11! Il ji ol op3)lOi ) t[if4 [I! 4 ' l 1 00 :! nIXsiI olOj
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. MILLER. There is not a particle of danger in that case. 

great precaution, if you waNit to make it absolutely certain th

ing can ever harm the daim, you have simply to build it 8 or 

higher than proposed, so that the water can nit pass over it-t

the water over the wasteweirs, to be made alnng the San Carlo

Mr. BARTLETT. ko1m0 years ago there was published in the A

Law Review an article oin the legal aspects in regard to the prop

contained in the ori!.oigial bill. It wAs intilIated1 tiat after til

were paid off the Goverinment would be no mger interested, 

she woull be entitled to none of the stock, aid the stock wo

back into the hands from whence it catte.

Mr. MILLER. That remark was made ili reference to the fi

According to the bill which passed the Senate, tile G overnillen

take the comnanv and have 1 en directors out of the fifteeii, and 

guarantee the bonds a 1d take from ,(70,0004,000 to , 80,000,000 w

the stock. The Government would have three- fourths of the 

the company; consequently own and control the ca1al.

Mr. PATTERSON. The first propoSition conteml1)1ated tlhe Gove

indorsingu the bonds, and j lacjin, the stock in the hands of the 

ment as collateral security; now tlie plan is for the Governim

become absolute owner of the canal.

Mr. SHEIRCAN. If the canal prove a success it would be t

investment the Government ever made.

TIjereupon the committee took a recess until 2 p. in.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

STATEMENT OF HON. WARNER MILLER-Continued.

The CItwNxIAN (to Mr. Miller). If it pleases you to go on, an

ing the arrival of the bahnice of the coninlittee, it will suit thos

who are here, but it is jist as ymu please.

Mr. MILLER. I will be 1-11d to do whatever you desire.

Mr. PATTERSON. I will say I will have to leave here by half 

at any rate, aid I would like for the Senator to proceed.

Mr. MILLER. I do mot iec llect my last statement to the con

and, as the stenographer of the morning is not here, I im n

perhaps, to Cmunence exactly at file point I left off: still, I h

stantia lly finished the discussion of the ()('Ito an a. I will sim

ill re~ga rd to that one thing m n ire. ()f course the O choa dam h

built ujpon a sand bottom. Thie question {15 to wilether that is su 

or hot is not a question of the ry but settled by any quantity o

public works all over the wi rlqd. The president of the Illinois 

Railroad told ie yesterday nearly all of the great bridges up

line of his roald and many of those across the \1 ississippi Rive

entirely up"n a sanm bottom where the superstructure was very 

thousands superstructure then about restsgarding be please of and Mr. built the the constructing entirely the PATTERSON. canal, let resting piers size ie of the tons. if know upon fact built prop rests you entirely a osedthat how Thecarry lBefore of upon sand. new cut ship far in 111)011 any it lock sand. this you it in stone It eanal superstructure sand. is your mch is canal, proceed from When ulnnecessary and of memory. Aisterdaij Greytown largernd weigonhifino I to was I take saw of than visiting to any to its upin muiy the the repeat Ilolland-aweight foundationanother old foothills there hundreilluslockto-thq
16 NICARAGUA CANAL.

MIr. M\lLEREV. Pegiiniing at the foothills-that is to say, w

pu1t in the kwks-to here [illustrating oi mpI is some 15 m

wmle distance up to Ochoa, as we reckou it, is about 31 

tri tle over.

l r. I ATTE ScN. From Greytown!

Mr. ?ILIRN. Yes.

The Riexitd point of criticism of the Commission is confined 

from )hoa to I he lake, a distance of, I think, 56 m11iles, if I no

correct 1. MItch of Ihat way the river is deep enioth and w

lor the laiest vessels. There are thlvree rapids, howeVe!r. 

noW and lvigable over which small vessels pmss. These 

bave to he takheii out. The daim at OcIioa, as I said, e

water 40 the Sai Juan Iiver from this point to the lake, an

to t lie same level as the lake, so that it has free na vigation 

to tie Lke al d across the lake, and so oi to the Pacific. I

of the river where we have to make excavations th rough r

the company had estimated for the bottom of the canal a w

feet. Thlat is the width of the i\1amiehester Ship Ca]i and a 

than ihat of the IKiel Canal, and very much wider Ihan the 

as Iiiishied. Thie Com ssion recommend that it be incre

feet, or doubled; for what reason I do not know.

As I tohl you at the beginning, they had recommended th

10 miles thr-mughm the lagoon be reduced fromn 125 feel to 1

whel they conie to the river they recmIlIlneIld an increase 

feet to 250 feet. When we come to the lake here, there is 

mud exteidlitii out for 14 miles, more or less, on which a lare 

dredling will Ihve 1 to be done. There the company has made the bottomn if the can al 150 fret wide, and there the commission 

that it bI male 0()) feet. The only objectt o' of thiat cai be, o

increase the cost of the work. The width of 125 feet is su

anV vessel to niavi gate and it is smtlcient for vessels to pa

feet in the lake is ample there. We might say it would b

havye it -)00 mr 1,000 feet wide or any width, but the compan

to bild a imerial cana i 1 to meet the wants ol 'cminierce and to build

it at th lea St possible expense, and we simply submit th

whie1 is gro c tlcr than tbhat 1f the Suez 'amal a nd equal to 

?Ianchester ('mil or any ship caind in the world, ought 

eiiugi fr ibis, anl it is simply a wanton waste of money 

increasing the cest of this canal to add to its width.

There is ]o dit'miIVty\ whatever ill marking this channel 

that vessels cam 1iot l)yV ly posSibility t et out of it. It 

have beln down at i\Iorgalm Cliv, omi the G1uli of Mexico, vou 

4hmmcl several miles honl' running through a great waste 

shol water in which ie channel is very narrow, and not 

this. where it is tlonromm0lyIv marked, say every 100 feoet, by p

mtakinir a 'lide for ships iPassilig oit anid in. this -111d Like a li chatI M\1 Mr. mat r. portion if sitIlf of )*k Mim. Inel erials the this of re I E 19) of kind o i.1. 1.-0 are all say the The led decpeids ally that kinds lake reoprts Ia there wilIe, ieavV will that IoTlic. 1 which upon ask he if of no have it winds di itcaptains two ficult is would any tohor y things whichbe in sto the make a1 moved; ughly rmns navigation l n clielly: woul men of a marked. wider ofId and, any who make First, co second

Iave camiaiii sepTht
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

of labor, which makes the unit of price. This Commission, in a

at an estimate of cost of I_188,000,000 16r t is work, have tiIst, as 

shown you. largely inicreased t lie quantity of material to be reiti

increasilig the width froil 125 leet on the river to 250 fect, ajid 

lake from 150 feet to 300 feet. They have theii increased the qyu

in other directions, but they arrived at the cost 4& the un it of rem

this material by taking data \vilch are im dmissible, and most (W 

are incorrect. Their pirice was the price prevailingo, years ago, wh

cost of doinlg' this kinid of work was very im uich gitr than no

fact, the estimate of the comip aiy was made uipin a baIsis of cost 

does not prevail anywhere in the worll to ly,; that i's to say, th

cut cost is greatly reduced. For uale, we lhve estlirmi.d, 

ninug at Grveyto\v the clist of dridoing at cc (luts a yad 6ti d

ing the harbor mid dred gi g the ist 1) miles, and that was 

estimate when it was IImadc, with (lie ImIachiniery Ihen in existe

which that hild( of work was done.

The Imlachinery which we bon 'zlht fr oIm the I a i Iama plewd a (d b

there was of a superior kind at that time. mIil the result was t

dredging which we (jid at Greyto i--al we kept a perfect aiid a

accouilt of it, aI 1 hiave liuv a I)aiscriit fromii mu. boiiks slmvii

at the beginiig of the cihnl we t4)k Omt Somfe (t70tm hbjc y

a cost of nly ,v 11 cents pier cubi yarl. lf couirsc we did it timler 

circustances. We womrlkel Hie p;l lit nIlv 1(' pi n-s :i Ia v instead 

hours a day, as the cmlpa iyw i v wwtd i j( had Imid nal da lie of 

but we did it at 11 celits per ciII Ic ya dn as (ur bcoks slww, wh

estimate wias 20 cents per tnhie vnl. This Cm nili n incri

from 20 to 25 and 80 cenilts per cii ;ic Ma 4d. N \w what arc th

to-day? All the machinery dowii thee now Can be discarded, a

greit 1prolit, because machniery tday fr do6giPg is miuch 

efeetive tintI that was. For inst;ce, to-day div, 'iii is beigI

at Mobile tIi1er conict at c7 ents a yard, and the Ialtei'al i

6 miles to sea. It is being done ;der a colit lad at ccii s 

and tle countries tell inc they are entirely satisijd with their 

WYe had offers tfrOiIm ( id: dgiiig companies Several ycm-s ago hiri 

all the dredgeiig of is em at iur eim iaed price, 11mt this C

Sion, without iinforiiiii, i1S eii a- to what the cost of th II 1 inid 

throighout the wvoild is to (Liy, s1mply ilurascs our esti ite 

to 25 per cenit.

Our rock excavation in this great divide here, which is clearly 

loin, and wh ich. I tliiik, calls tlo somie S,01i0,0'04 eubic yards 

rOek to be taken out, we esl imate at ];.-0 a clbic yvArd, and t

allow for transportation to reytow\ to put in the breakwater 

to be put in the Ochoi dimii - A) cewl ipe ; a'i. TiIOy are 1m s

with that, but they 11rglv i!cruase Ilht mnut f paice. Now, w

tile facts to-dav .It Ithis conn i te wantd to know what reck 

kind can be excavated for, let mic ak (ou to semi for Soime (dt t

ing and tractFs this nuder making. Chicago.ontractors rock chief NC co nItract, told excavation I I engilIers, believe visited me 2 anid who they it thatie a allod for were is 1W eniitirely highest now last ess t en hre doing year timely thau priceossible I f iil satisfied work I )I was colnlectiahi per I to 76 ipm cubic day at with ceits great to th yard. tie with let Iie aUra;:in yard, work a iroits the contract I age and have cont1)(-i thc1t
1111P S il IJ l1l 1. l lit .( [l ) 4) d Sn ll 1[ i 

Il )a di l{l :.l I\ 8U -A\ lJlil) ) u )I o o 

sT 01[ 1 pill, Omit 1l l 4 ILIA 1)m ll .t liL

.I.)Ai8 44 ,)\ u) II I I~IIN pu( O1V.I 011 I,( 01111 . 11 J4\ III1 

wi 'Iju i f . )( SLIjJON (lIJO )1111 tj"Olldi 01([1 

"4V11q s,'a(os II [ U sI)m .)I1.s48! t Jts [1811l w Iq *0U I: 

.LL\ I .[, U,1lLdls \ 

Soqi [ ub) oHI 10A1 , ( 'U\I,) li-)i KJAli jo dAlO i i 0 ! .t0 )l[1 I t.lI

ad~ il e;-so sl,au prt a, U Ajuu ,oo -it'n pa 

)dl l '80O.lX1 B)iJliqUf 1[Oil p(lo d)ll! J10jw' 'moll o\\ I I

M110S OM V ' Ak ) 11 m)(II *Jjop T4101 to I I

4111A AM> 40 00s, 81111 P t4' Wjk[ p uu 1JUIL 1 l[ 

jo~~~~~~ O lls II I(

Ji()~~~ A lO8il 1() '"LL *0-10l{ I o[ UM(T ti ,IIc .1 'ni) ol I 

03110AX S1111 1 ' m pl ,J() .0q)i) (1) pmI'ma ol[ I t- 4,\ It (I ,III1 

110L 11l 1109 ',)II y) so ulH8) )II 1tosip-li .L\ J O P) )',); 

"Mip 1voljt,; ) 014 III 411d1 04 If[-)11m0110iq o jl I ljii\(I(

9 111(.1 p ~ sN~toot it! 4! .it1A.1.1 Ill 1) spI 811.) o(", i81) 11011j 1)ul, pH

.10 (I e if , ar 04 l (Iii 480.)II~ I i J 141 I j >1! I1) l 111 

'i( [ [uJ t 4Ju Tu 0s ) 4 o[ [1 -tml' Pt11

' o [i I d) < 7 {

a0 sl ~ Sp~ljl I)IIU1104 o.10(1 s'4110. j1 4l C>1 I' 1110 JOJ 4 Iflj 7f

0.10 0111 omtap101 01 jo00(Lk A{[Uij )w. v U~ u .VI .1,0 (1,)I.) 

'olt J! o'lia(tm Os, I, )w It I, Oq ita [ut Is u In I an s'I I I[ Ilm tit -, o p

41l-() i) 4 4 4 0u I pjUAX pUqj 11 

OA\4 80111.o U 4)1110. 111 '81j.;Is UA si qIal ) u41a~li) Je UI[ A\pKen pum"V

/ 'I I d 110J )1 t L lil \T~,) l ju1\4 mo1

')Itll(),l it pi

* 1 IP hI11111! '1101 ITd () 11 , I" .I P1104 .J '111C[41 II l I vO ),[4 )

ol I -1dXi) A Itlh om \ (Sul0[AU.A it IIU Il)T A 1.0 I I Il' mJ Ji II~ 111

sdli[ aqI 04111 mo Olp tUipc l 1(1 omi:.[.) )qI 11 ILO 11( j) -i1UIiU 

0T BL-( 1U.-q 's.[) II4 u dilli It' 40 up' It: I I I) 1 [!4 ' 1 J!1 l I I I I, I () 

1104lit 411 11d 6 111111),11 . ) )([1 h111 .1 11 ) IJI ' oq pll: (u . )IIlI I) }lI s 

)11 8H 1 110 .81 1 \\I" I1. pI~ i Io1 -) .1.11 I 1 4 4 ~ I l,~ 1 1 * 10[II I 

1 ) mt su .ISOAI.) 111ilA 011 '41". pl~t ioll [{ (J sdp V )I ),U0 ,1 4 111 1 i .):O ll 

l j 4 1 1 P I II!,) It u IN~h so.11 ,11 ! h .11 1

f 11 11 R I: .1111 

"O~ O O ILI i[O l) I 0 )'o I dIII A ) )[1 1 t I !) III .) hIl I 1 I II 1 I AA

01'-0 pill"'T No!It)iulla 0 ' -)III 10 ) 04qv M A j! u:0)4 01 109W 4Vo1{AXu [11 1m) 'Ptj11) .14) '11081p' *VI \ .~)~ I11~I 1ll (it: . '111:l
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

common labor, to substantially the same basis as it is in the 

States.

All these statements I make here are verified from the expe

this company and from their books and accounts, so that ther

be no addition to the cost of that kind of Miir because of the 

and the record which I gave you this mnorning- ill regard to 

1,600 Jamaica negroes for six months and only fouir dyig, 

were worked in the wet season, shows it is not ill the cOmimon

ance of the term an unhealthy y climate in which to do work for t

of laborers, who are of coUrse acclimated and are accustom

The skilled laborers, tie engI iIieers, mechanics, etc., of course, 

tie United States, aind we paid them no more than they receiv

but if the work was going ol with a large iiunumber, with 

ull pr4 20,1000 ba* X imeii there at onlce, the demand f4 )r skilled labor wo)41 

lead to a demand for a larger com pe Insatioi than received in I lie United

Slates, bUt tile bul)k of the labor and bulk of the (c )st is, of co

common labor.

Tile copn )8 y have estimated tile cost of excavating rock und

at 45 per cubic yard. Thero is a large amount of rocK ill tile 

the three rapids of which I have spokell, to be excavated. i

been estimanted at %5 per cubic yard. We submlnit that that is an 

a gant estimate. The Government at the Saulte aiml the chanii

it isdoin g this wNork at a cost ]f not more tha1 onie h-Il af f 

substantially 2.50 a yard, and the same machinery mid applia

be usedl at Nicaragua as there used and tile wIork be colti1luell t

year, whereas at the Saulte they have to suspend entirely du

winter season, therefore costing more than it wIuild )therwise

Mr. PATTERSON. Would hot that depend somewhat upon 

acter of the rock ?

Mr. Mir'IJIZI. Yes; quite likely it would.

Mr. PATTEAZS0N. What about the rock ill the bottom of the S

River*?

ixi . MILLER1. It is like all tile rock of the country, which is l

ignleouics Or volcaniC 1f0rnm, an(d will it is IIard it drills readily, o

with a diimoid drill, anld ill blasting it comles out in pieces large 

to le hadlId successfully; and we believe it is a no Im re c

rock to quarry tha the rock found at the Saulte, 01 nlot mu

expensive than the rock Iuind oil the drainage canal at Ciicag

even it it is, tile prices we have estimated hinder) present c((nditiq

extremely large, wecaitse, as I say, we have made a basis upon 

of doing it which is muich more expensive than it is at the prese

Now, a dred(ging plant to -day-a section dredg'e (II inlog this 

Mobile and some of the ports of Mexico-fias demonstratcd 

principal part of the dredging can be done at aii acthial cl s

exceeding' 5 cents 1a cuibic yard, whereas our lowest estimate is 

The River Govermnent Commissioi has just had constructed for uSe of the Al i

be dredge oil enabled earth with 4 material or Our necessary iin 5 wheelbarrows as the estimates miles at to the is swamps a handle pumped entire to distance to be put were 6,000 a dumped. almg United and therough ge made of shovels. at cubic material a the States half, (redge, when Nothing a canal, yards pipet Army it It into ree-quarters, which, was and is and a11 all of scows assumed can liour, not discharged the done I hianidle am a and kind which by particle or told in tow oneaow if the mile is by directly ithem mach harbor twice put was is the :ind donineouin bfu
NICARAGUA CANAL.

$)d \\owd ru1 ()t T e midlers of a imder) dired 'e, 

1111 hinl 1wt lr i hti it 1 liv I c(nt IIi ct to do this worlh Ut our 

h) ihle l(Iii*2 ill,, leeks of e lulsl S4a ,I i & a Im u lit of co

I() T l 1 1 hullk of the leeks K it e iAd of conlcret i

i til i 4l Vo l d #N.eme n i;m :It. 1 lnte stI ie. W 

Iw12ll, 211 (d, Iilit :It Ai citlhie, \Ii~tr lph e. Tit( (?nm

liu inahi:t is nl-ut siK2 I. :1! t heN iise I lhe price of tlat to 

lt e;is. tiwv S.Iv () tf the \\0wi1k tIlt Ihe llelljwpint ('itna

w1111h to) do 1 licl e,. ow let 11 Thee The work Iol e in A1l), 

I I I(It I I, I II)w s IbJ s' Itiii II1 cwiqpl tom 1, )i t I I( ' It 'c :- n 

a eli v ; I ' cwi &e n I I p'; I Ii cl. aIIII the e to" Cl the Po tI

u~~~- ,s abe I.3 a ~ ldl . Jowl lnd ccilent cnm bt

.it (Ir Ion fo IEnl:;Im tto (a, l I l din hilmid, Iit i 1.

pci1 hircl. T.:eie .K n1 1(1!1y. (It LA1St, il tipon 

112t the ccimA l cimnllp i.\ ei N, to ta ke il le t Ue upoln 

W t\ ;e .mvc l- fl Al a;m ean u e Imit aivy\w\nie ill Ihe 

ImI irI, el ItsI t h LIV is hire . as it is Ia lU2 wit 

\ i c I 5t I5, o 1111 iOI SibOl iU le p ('5 \ iin lml0 to 

>e Wo(1K at lI p e . ii YIrd. Tht is Ito l1o011 It 

,It 11:lly at from 4 to I but the ce;Ii raul os must ieeess

o lwoht, ;i wilt'ie I hey io lto a cluy like Xi aruag they 

lmii L2' IL prOf is Ibl there is [I( trwikhe at all ab ut furvii1 

I rtral rs ( il i i h w k 1i t our price u whibli 

\ -Ilmnil th:0 this c'sIimife of thi ('i i 1iln Is siiply 

'harllit m lilwillled f(l iolkl no re s n cal h 'j ie ( x 

It o in: he th eai 0i the wh' (an11 WI film this icrea

Illwlas. an iIr tCASe o t he q uantiti'' by 

pi (rim r: 1 * 1.t aI tio, itfly, by d pep eciati 11 g I lie va

1:t wi wlich Is 11 Iu11'. >Niw, mitAerni illt hods of d(e

v' I12 t Ilg hal o I1 eli o : mw I Islice 0111r cSt in tes 

t t wi, Nh s fl , I , satw iit. ()Ill* (111r i'imatc 

i I I I\e At l i I 1(l . it, nf 52 ie XV m A I - y 1 ttse All' peri Iai e I 1am tw to w e

t "vt 1 1he .>-t I o. 1Tr I i' X I ct1 i Spok li e I his I is : I 

V i* hwi jl II1 , l < wi ii l ll eoI l : I c I ! I I cl t, fo

liIr :-oiI tm 1 . sa I th t he w\o hl Iake he I i e 1

thII munia miwl do all theo wel k II [hI' price liB't by 0)ur chI

InI1.1 h i I Itin , we I 4*nx*e Vmant cin the lia lit is 

gwat.I )It ioc .1 ii1 I t 'l F 1 at jt esc 

In wa;! 5 4 o 1 le k to. p N< ing iw eI ' ai c S fa feet i dept,

IL5 [coil wtimbo i ho bega. ini 18 hl5!i4 - lc ii thie riy

iii wh 11 l ii 'Ith oit le wis I n h: i r *Ihe v im oo fI ohhi \ A i1nd blo .1 IE '2 nt ra i -lIi tIus K. n(' ",a i vt1 I, Iat this teI r 1n, 1'i\ Iiu ion ii : yI ii Wo ey I Ijit IIh I I dclOj It i < hi 1 r it nii e1' avu V, m I I in 0pe1 we y ii ol h 1II', ndw Itim14. II haVe ! e I"here )i I I t twr l I 1 si a; ibha i h h1 ete is p) I tlemed s ee I n ip hI 1 jI it ' y I ill nelesII aS I v I ;l li nl ) e iI, i ii i I to I t I I in i I I f h to i (k 1 thI c-X\ I II'Ia N IlII I i,> tII thi >t'r 
-TU, aaXLo~ illlwf ) doj tl)IiiI 7) oX1JXI A(q aptal io )LotpU jo( ai1L[ a

'kXo[VU Jll '10 OS011 ~d4 '1lX 10 j 8 vqj.TI 'S SW A)Ai

JO II l)A t Ott Iw,) 1141su1 pLm)U op t!1 1 m4 O)1t0301

uH q U q! soaIt I 

palIuj) 011 stt o)A1 SMd~TN St, 4-d)UMIU )it ppllmA ltOIA 11! .1o4 

-?I~tl(t pul 01m .) m! )II O j4 o 1.i1)11)Vd 1>b ) [I I lO

4 q ' i_ [1 -10 j dld j * J)I4 wj qIi 0j 4 Ug[ 0 hup I J s oosu si g(lg 0S,11, a[oip

4dl 8 jI jljA lopu'lJ. -,,,I~ O t1 lll.I 1[ '111 P p (0 JO 101 0:101[ 1 1:u')1 ( rip I~I11 jo 1) II 81 4Ulp 4 -)111) >1~ 1 -11A ' lIILIIUI'J

011 T MIM 'I101-11111t I, J! l A 4 l 1 pw idi l l tq 1 p AI.

j)[1loA ~lU :'Il 1t1.YC) i I u da\I810Xa sU aq 4011 }qo 

'1p1113 4.1(1 AHB8 04 .U11i q Iml[ 0 1 1111'j, iU I l * llU l,' q 4

.SliI1 11 0111 I 8i [ 1 1 1)U llw 111oll Jl[4 I1 illJ IL 

4 .ldl 412t: U su I! a'~ 10 U [;o s liii e .0 i i li1[uA\ 

o, a p1 s 1' p 111i 'v tU 1[11O 14 U tH01141A ")0l1

[114 A Lp b t: ' lA 'o l ", - ' : '' '-[d JOI IId l.s

011 81 Walaij 4 111 II )I1 2~ 2N! 1N a dIOIJ 11 1 'I '1 s

'f OI I '1 2 o 10 18

11:2 4% jo ylp Up Ilaf;jA\ 1j A 43

0 iit i4 U1118 oI[I .o u18I > ;~~j~.9 a sp!1J)~~ j ' 0l 0 04 

jI P) pilli [1H K 2 L\A AX 21 )4 41111\\ lIOK\ iil 

_k. ll!! oIi 1 I lloll4 jo 11'0 4l401

I I( I > I I1 C' I ,k 1 2 (111 p J i I I II p I j

-L 2.lj 11' a u n sq.o) jfU i Ih M: 

ge )1[[ y H)sd lul21 No\pli 'Ildp0 d - I 

I I1 Ao I IA I I~l "A JijC \ 0 a1 II III 

'gu la ', 1!o oaqf jou n o il oq~gai'

,Il j L 4.1241 I I [[I 1 1:k1 o i Id t I 'A l i ,U[ 

111 J2;I( ( (> 0)( n 0 10. 1>: . 121 Jhm smj '-l'~' 1 p

I 1 [ II 4 U) I 1 A -;A P0 i -! 4xvl1Od 0-1 4Ag l (j

8),1m t.!1 I I11 ~ I . I I J~I~ 2 by o 'OI. 1 ~ ~ (4o( 

'- uo n Il ,u Iu u I p jo iJold 

1)W J.lt(I0 o.1 112) 1 PMU A) '[11111) I 11 I!8 110 IO I I

u ; lt111 1 1u, 1 o 1 1 1s, 1 1) J1 1114 , IpVt) I A 

['0A Iol OSIIU[[.I Lob 2 4. 11021 Jo [SSO I, I-4 04

uI[VX A[.)1ltIs IIIOA u\-IuI n II IA 08dI[18 J 41\\ 'lM

.011111,0; "oj li 1 q 1 \[l-'11110 X

',)II10 I I p) ,O ! Oil. dli AXol Xit 421 4 J ( ( 'AOUI2

_O 11111'Oi ;It)

III (2t 0I (8) A .11 jII 'sl 211 l II H l WN !J. Is1 JA 1JO p

W) .1 T j i t ,111" N''' I I l [ 2 i I. A Pllt '1411011 Jl(! o4 IOOfX u 

8j2111 plidl~ '111(tI)i 4mlt( '[Ii jl.o,llj I .02 1 1 .10l: l 1 ll h [110. 

P'2 o4!)j ~2A~I J4 sT to OI~j~({ 11)sAtol I 111) II i 4!811fiJ 0 p0.1 1 Wi I 112p 081 j II11j . 11, oJ~~ Iuwi :,[ 0 I~2 A IIUllo.111 Aq 1 8)oj 11(1 It 1t -JI" 2.1412 q lwijA 11mlp o0Tha. IAPOT~ 12 1 '10Sd J111. 4! O11.F I)Aq o8 
NICARAGUA CANAL.

derbilt. and two surveys ii alde by the united States Governm

and nte partizal sirvev malde bv tile Nicangm (Wi overneinceit

all cane to the same vonuielsionL.

I uidert ake to say that no> work of this magni itude or any

it has ever been so thoroluhdly prepared for the beginiiiiig 

this has il 85n(1vliice. We have surveys as accuIrate as surve

ki iid call be m1ade. 811(d a1ly iiecessi f v b r dehly tol.r fuirtler inv

does not exist. Now, the ComluissioH uidertakes to sv

-All. PATTERSON. light ill that coMIICtioiJ. Now, there 

repeated surveys; is there a coiisensus 4) opi im, or vat her 

UOiItIriCenice of O)piliioln. 111ong thSe&.e slrvevOr,; ill ard to 

_lr. A1L LLER. Substaitiallv so. The lild Ild ,umvvvs 

took to follov the river there 111nd maek sever l daints. '11(d to 

river d wnu th Iirog1h here [illustratiill, but that was sMn 

because of the 81 1ount of silt at I dep sits wh1 icfi camic onm

would hive filled up and inade the pa1ssae imipo'sihle to na

l r. lPATTL1ZSON. So the researches

Ar. LLER. I ave all coile to the same eu1d, and there 

s11gested l)v this Commission except linlor details. As I sta

this inoringiii . I hey argue against tie Ochoa da1, and end up 

it is possible and it call be built.

Mr. IATTERiON. Did the ( > 11iioli sHLv the ionite at 

. Mi fR The Cm i ssionli spent from tw\lve to f(mite

or uiear the linle of the canal. They never iale anv suve

kind. Th y never even stopped at tite sit o the ( )hoa 

o

col1use the Coill lii 5sio coil11 niot have miade i sUrt1ve v. They c

I ma ke a i y survey alt at mid be of the Slighites t use N itll(

three veal"s lile w\itli a corps of 'ngineirs.

\l r. PATTERSON. Tell I, Now, comlt not mv1 collipt cIt 

here at Washington, with the data wiich was before timt (o

118ve (Is gmod all )ppoitlil t y to arr1ve at a cmIoect cOichlsi

did ?

Au. 1 [LLE. Certaiihlie could. There is no man who (a

av 1 ( i a v kinlOw led'_e except lie geVts a gcnUeld idea of I

a11d mtateial and Ile lms alt illphiessioni whichI goes wshil 

uindoul)tedly helps him to a certain extent, an110 m elgi oIieer 

siderl it ilecessary to go I here except to veii ;v lout ilmn

veys, so tar 85 they go. are correct. ally eingiineer aimywhicie in 

CaI take the plats aI II over themII aId see wIIertI tIey (1Y f

o

eourise, staititw) ulpo) tile prclmis&es 's to) wlit we have 4iven 

Alr. 1 PATT ER SON. Thy state tihe I-act ic'a 1 lit vf (,(Ol st 'lctin

but if I understand you they insist upon 111 incIreitsed cost gr

of the width of tile cmaial a1 depth Iof the caal, atl ii 

Iarer price fo work and or wa ges tln hIas been estiltmte

comlpanly?

\Ir. Al w1. That is what it aimmints to. That is what th

I Unit becamtse eomles SayS. he rPemo Allr. Air. r froml (Iivert willo of ing AlILLER.Z in thse PAiTTERsON. price it out 1 that in material. 4( twvo g yives lot 1orl 4ff way, cellmets. these think I do the Iiave the i'g mid but inIcree ILaIVe cmlmi v;rimou they the not all I hat y- wmo uy1)lf, are thiat 111d s d u )rk, fa-ts is quatities made fair the?and an b;1utt dredgilg eiiow.gh vou alb4solute ofl all 1d course Mr. estiiate have Morn to uid 1th1 state 'a sta the Wa ted wuges, 1of increase it itecessary tOldl their tiei take: here me a4 increaillcill It' he 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

over it, and the iiereased cost by increasing the quatitities w

sonethig 1ike 1000 000, mid the increased cost of lamr mt th

in addition.

Now, while on that point of cost, I want to call the .itteltio

committee to some reports here, a reinrt monle ill the Senat

last Congress by Senator Morgan, which gives first the repor

engineer of his estimate of the cost ot this \wo rk in detahi, tle 

of which are stated, 20 cents per cubic yard flr dreging, 8 

removal of rock above water, 5 for removal of rock inler w

$6 for concrete, etc. That estimate was mmade 11Id reiporlted to 

pany at the begimnihig, before I became coi nec ted wiIit it. Iii 

this morning, I stated- the time that I leeame con ected w

eniterprise, but it is gole into here il gleat detail. anld that est

Air. Meniocal amomited to *,65,000,000. Now, tile (4om11plm, 1b)

ceeding further, took all this data, all these surveys, and all w

had beeii done by our enlgineers over three ycais' time, ai(l si

them to a board of leading enigineers which was gathervd ill Ne

at the head of which was Air. Johlm Bogart. a very dist ingl wish

neer, who was for several years the engineer of the State of Ne

In New York we have an officer known as the State enginer 

veyor, who is elected by the people, the same as other omfiiers

in charge of the whole canal system-Erie, C1ninphiiu. etc., 

thosecgreat works-and I know of no mal more coipetelIt. V

were associated four other eni 'gineers Mr. Myers, one of the 

railroad engineers of tle South, who resides, t i)elieve il Lic

Mr. Wellington, who was the editor of tile Engi]eerig New

distinguished engineer; Mr. Ilarvey, who was tile elgineer co

with the buildiiig of the first lock of the Sait Ste. Alarie, 

Hitchcock, an able eiigilieer. These gentlemen tiiok all of t 

and speit 'a log time upon it and made a report to tile comnti 

that is printed here, and I want to read just a few clauses fr'y

give you some idea. They begin by saying:

We have carefully examined the unusually full mapq, proi 1s, .orings. saun

o

material, etc., which have )-een prepared and collet ed idler the direciiin

chief enlgineer, and the completeness and excellent ftrm of which reilk.1 t c 

your engineering staff.

I will not undertake to read the whole of it, although it is im

They go on further to say:

The project as a whole appears to have comparatively few elemeitts of do

it, as colmparing it with other works of at all similar ma gn it ude, aitd we 

to he unquestionably feasihie. The geat area of I ake Xicia i0 im 1'1

serioustioods by regulating flow. Mnvh of the earth excavatin a di(e Ying, the r

drilling, and the concrete mixin g can be done by mech;a nical mie:i as, t hat e

reducing the needs for mauial labor. The dams and eml nkihmenits pi 

be made largely front the immense mass of otherwise useless rnck spoil. 

climatic conditions, as we understand them, an adeguite snplv of itbor 

obtainable. The project in detail consists of the followilhg ieliicits:

I will 20 they ar pliminary whom substantially will Then Mr. per the not carry PATTERSoN. not yu cent figures they go read.ferred'? the further to report proceed correct contingencies granl which As into of What as total this Mir. the it. todescribe company its Meiiocal. was document of They of estimates, the the construction theind estimate estimate has line is the but acted accessible of higutres i) it) of the as upon to addition the a canal, ,87,79J,570, of [actor Eiiglish to instead our the to which e fo thbat ginecommii engof siyao
poPad 11 al1)1 mm\a11 p ut p loi pp p A j! p 41tq( '10 8Iq pliH 

1 dd) .10 0;l 01 ; 1 i p pri A X14' 1 J( j 1 01)111 ; pvq Xpimtt

4; it Ii ) t I I s I!. JI '. AXk V1 I I p I '>1 ()i pu) 1: 1 ' o [1pi g01 

j

grapp 4(01o pmj OA\ 0su sal'[s1u1m!0sa) p)ddioj's 

S)1 V I I [\ U V tIj) I[ IIwA I I4 ! I) I .Xj 'ILI A\k)1.l( I M ~ . I. IA 

1 ) 1 1 .) (1 (1 \Vli m t '4s), 1 81 )1 A I II mV 's V I1[ I I I I4 I .I 0h

1) 111: 1 ~ ~ ' IM I I! i1 V0 AVj\ T)t I:.I"(( I)~I 't 1)l'l 0$ * M

S')l 1 L 0 ~ 1$ ,l \1 r[o[ I~ I~I~ I".1 a ")t1 1 .10~d 

1 I )(!It X Sg I. II) I )a '!\V 4Pp si Id 0 41M11 o 1,111s ()'1 iaoid

I I lut lm I I.i \ I i I Ii I IU 1 A (t Il I I ) ol[g III dlI L 

111 I .) uH i -t 8 O1I.1 ; 1~u~X J[ 48n. 14I[uo I ()D ,.4 1: umon Sfl)[1d dILa

0al u4 8.; 4 14 [ [el 111 a( uII : 4 d [ 1 d'!. 4dli >1[ N.j't1 d

dlj4 JUI Iq I I I t I I IO I I 

410111 1 ) ~~NII'.Dt J1[ 10111p j8 .18111m pId4H A iUil 4som' pMo

1

J$ 40 ()ujIV g sAIL\ : *I hA p II ,)([ jsIu1q'IW)IL *ug p J00,1 d j 

Alq JO;II prIp ) 

p 'pd pIuF , i p l 11 -d [ 111 4 1) 11 A X -! 1A1

puoiaq~ ~ ~~~~~~J s m "'1111uto J! -\I-ua

30 Affimmnu imll aopq o"4 ,w psip ()I ap sstat~q<r sliq p')IIII

1114O 1 )1 t d Id I[ 8,1 11 u [I I 8 At ( I u lo I) 1 1 81 () IA I 

,0111 4 u I A ~I [ lo p [1J IJhi1),INV (1,0 dlit'. i.1L11( Xsl\I.Td1 11 O ~ 

-. 1$11110 p i . jlt 1d Ip mIll: ) 11 Id V 1 I I IA lA .,) mo.l 

NC OpinI 44J IhJ . AIL l4 ll) I { } Ad lI s 'dIl Il8

(m Jill[ pou

Iq lpum sat in 1,up lp " wil!I 14 u p ill x ny -n cno 

-din S111 I~m 1n 1)n 1~on IS, Inga Iq s' i pu a

-)I4II put! -vI lIt )mIp() 'p J ) It In' I.X d I{p IJ Al 111: s s1 0 u 8111 y1 u i) 4

' ll~q pr118-O l [ 1, 11 1VJ .1 0 1wt 11i. II IiV *4 }I I dJi 

I I. II I o d P Pl : ')'I! L A g .s II ! A ld Ip I18 ItLL 18W) lit

IloJ11111 1j 'shI'p *10A1i dl .j 1) (,,11 ( ) 1 1A it 1, 4 !8 I d1

81'.l[ dmld([4 jo po l 411 I l $ 0 iI I I 0o I I[ I I4 1d Ao I II 4

-Id 1111) m 4 1( IAd I u I' 1 io ([q )t I[ 1 .I to 1 [ ) 1d' Ilgd o. 

Id;8I d I Idd A1 PI 111 t A 1111 410dI[ )A[ tIth ) isI II ' I I 

'm IH0 . l )14 41 1 [d d 11 1 1 1' 1l~ t811 I11' 'J) I It~{ 1

lo It l I I I'lPII 1 ' A1 1 1 1 ' ll) 1 s4 ifp.I I 8)1 I I I 

iJOA0 ) S11118 oj 4 114 saI'. sd AI A 0I 0I1 t plptI- pu t I'. d V[ d 1

11 qanom 1t i4iA0. I! wj 11111,~l S101 'U01! .101118811819 4 JiUA Pl 4dl1 '4 f1111'. API ~~l4 O,1 0 8~h ,)J.sIuu] II ry dI{t O .11 O )M p1 1W dtp Y lO [4 V (" p oso lwdll vAI18 ou l. )i lp . )111 vImit 1111. ,4 ~ uI .1)u 4111 Iq~ll ml )I-01(M 1, I Im I~[ Itl w l J1j

pu anaie 00 gua s -noin pjrtltia I)I)IM 0. A 01tj pslur -p o d l

oq pt Jtup 0mi If.a Oltjnu puu aanpogsolu p

ud l ( r q IS ~ ~ ~ ~ s no ~ ~ u ~ d ~ sI, ~ ~ V V l p)o,' m o m 111o'ili, s 1) ()ua m T -I, p- '01 ik111+s() -I pil 1[!11" I pp )lIp ppuua 4al4 i l -") q 
_1101-) J~~8.10 .)J1.1o) 1 q oil p111011s 1 EIao1 O J0qDI1)A

8.0) )I~ I I 10.~ ) I pU[ J .1 I O(I U 01(4 P04I111[q118 ~i(I l)[LIW). 4! I IT 

-i(. O~il pj11; AN lil sll 814pA1)qq iiopitti j1!1l( ,,,s 8NJ)t. Ot

-U~m.~~11HI 81I"'11 ,)411U.ll Y) 4! p0014810 Imiq j OjllOO 41 

11p Ai ~ 1I ~ OO!

ti 1[ A, 0 1)1 0,101t) HA)1 1 Id)1t~ 40 11'lU )4 "-"up.10 III1 411d 

111)l[tA p ) mu j Th A I '0''~ ~ ~ 1 ~114 pp i ptul4 

,o (11 OA 1118 i i 11! 1:I0 ) 1 (1~0111 '), tJim lTh) I!1 *J4l4 v o 

*,),1 1 tm1(4s)p8111 p11 80 111 ) Oj1111 4.T 11Oip 8.111 A0Jp 11 u 11( J8 ls

y 

41 p!1 1 aq pll(J s II 'l1\ 0 81 Tod) [1J d.\1 d swp Sit 1 

m~1 IlVA dl 11 1 I T)4 I j A 14 ! j1( 11d q8~Bd1 ]),) 1 JO 11) j1 

.10Wil ' s '1Ii Ij~1.I ~ JI1~. I0[A )111wi ip4i.\ .,)I'1~ '[004 

-811 111 .41 \iM14~. d[4 O ~flJI\0I lU)11 dA01 10

A (14. .10p . tll. IIJ 1111~j< ll 011q1 110(1 j v1l{ ~1

P 't 

um ~) III 7;l 1) 0[011o I~ I4~I Sqd p81_ 1

I 

dI{4qw 4 ill pillV~ spuq11 I

ti1l1: 01[A mu: ilt11 ~ Ji( ~t,1~(l[f~1 TIL[J\ 111111 01[ Ja

pill,114 1 .)110 011(10 (4 I8 001 it olVlj l,011) p141m s 

,)81lI~,, 1~ II(~ .1. 11111814111 'T)H tL0J idddA\ 814144. 0 4 

Ail uo0pI.U .1011. II81~ J i T I(1A I[ ,0 M III A~i 

1)t~l(4~~~ 4 Ad I 1111.) 11 It! lUJ4,jlV Aq jO 1) 41r1 bll

OJOI8[j1 11( J ll 1( (IIId. -;, lol~ J! vo0811 1[ [ yil (14)4 ~ipA III4 %I. 

0 4dlJ 014 11111 Id ! 81 ll j) 1[ [A. I Ii4 1 11 ) , 

114 4.Lf 4ldl.1 pi,8 4 111 IJ HI)j solp41. 041 p8 o

-A0 II, )1 A I 4[ViI Ii 4)1018(11)014.1 111)~1~~1 1104)( Nd04A

II401 O pm . 111 14 p ).10] IIIAA,1 0 [11.1 tiH(4A\ 1111a TI jl1 

i'''j yAH luq p1 1141 m i) 1111. -l 1 I1 Af 1 A~l) OA i:IOtll81 {110141 1

ptm uiHw, [80~ 14 4!1 1 P111 11 0411( 1"Jf148 T L(I I 

quilp 118101~U~ Jim .J( )p 111 T111~A It J~ Xtvl) 1011 -I ol IsmV.I)I lp .j '10A(4 Pllwm1 ol )A 4110(11 'PAB0 A
2(3 NICARAGUA CANAL.

strUCHtionH w )rk and filled wi with cnrefte or stone, so there is 

frnm A1liit unier 11y eivrastances. Now, ! do iiot know tha

>ay anythin, further ill Iezlgid to) tile cost. There is oil( o

whilA pas -cd frln Ily minld

ALr. IllATTEs li re.lard to the bar]bor at Brito, there 

difliculties there, liv there aot 

MIr. Al i i1iEi:u. At irito the CoIissioners of course rec

(ofane nf tuimt further to the oith. The report madle )y 1i

In i4iitd to the will(s1 will show that will be unwise. 

Seleted :1 t r several srVCyV Iimd bceat made. Ill fact ( lw

>l V Fili1 ill the sam direction becaiise the ean:l went downi 

e.hi11el of the stream, which saved lar"e excavations, and 

there \wa;s I small strellat emptying into the Pactie, oal there 

on which there was fio-ml 4 to G feet of water, and on the no

t hiS is a promiotltorv of at least 100 fi(4 huih of solid( rock gr

into ihe oceai, and iiatiti'ally we took tfhis promontory as o

break w\Vtels ain1 built aniolhaer brei kwater parallel to it, a ve

plae a1t a very easy pwee to build a harbor, :1u1 the brea

built out. and of course between this hrelvkwater and th

pronmoittory a elmatiiel would be dredged. m1d the interior 

sutlicjenlt Size to hld all the ships that would be necessar

answei to the repwrt atmade by Enginlreer Meiwal I think w

ery member ()f thi com Ii iittee I lere is no sitHieiilt reSmI ml

a IIy cl l Oec o I, tIIt ]tb atiOi )I t it thIere were lV "OO(d resI -0n o

I

tile b"(aird of cimItltill eie'iieers wonld discOVer it antd th

wonld be nade.

p. PATTE R ArN. Ae the onginleeri ii diffetilties there as 

they are at (GrVyt OwNi

-Ar. Mi L IE. should say not. fromI my own inives4igatioin 

I lmv binet there. Of cirse, ( reytimw1i t we lt-ive or th

110g( WaIs (I deep walte- Iarbkr. It is I n:tilrAl harb1-or. but tile 

ad then grallmay the harbor killed. so at last there is som

feet of water in some places and some phlecs less. A portio

harbor is goun to be dreK'ed out to a hinal depth of 0 Fect.

M\ r. YomTRSON. Nii ave to excavate near the Pa cilic (

have to "lt a di vidini g ridge or two. (10 voil laot ?

Mr. MtILlEu. -As we ( out from tihe lake here, we go ae 

est piece of land thee is in Nicara.uu. The extreme heig

la1d here j illutratiill .bove water is 45 feet. and the avera

hboVe water i, 20 felet, SO VOlt have to nmke an excavatioli of 

an a veraoUe. and thai 30 f(eet Ib)elowXv 1) 2et tie depth of wat

canal. This work hms been 111ost thoroighly and caelrefllv 

becal e that i's Occupied mainly with faris and not dihicuil

at all.

I n1my say one more word in regard to the Contniission incre

size of the prism of the caml oni the river Ifrom 125 to 250. 1ad o

and thrloghi from ing which Last of sl werv smilethinl.r ing (,jI0,H tlcrefore the year to 15 wonihl thlmat 280 ) pas'; the Im 1o there tons days 100 cantiA1 thromlt [he p:5s5 like the per feet. pa capac thtcnal 1 thrioig to aaunm s-"cd.j00, h cirrv ity thi1 throu The is aIs ;f bwinlg open. awitl qnly. that it may to passia wN-mild h be every SonMething aimotiit theave Supple Ordinuy1 g Sm;tlte oilly atiale ill yea had so of this m lake over as wide, toinag,4 the C1al ill vessels broad through lina1d Nicara 11 70a but vessels vessels basi aaviyati, that day, lild what Saluite a ait as nearla to Canare here goedtith1mS
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

San Fraineisco Basin and in the maiiin river and in the lake a

basin, that there is only a small portionL of tle cnial in which 

could inot piass freely, but large seagoing vessels pass to-(ly w

ay in terriuptioii in the M anhelester h ip Canial, the bottom of 

only 125 fet.

So, is there any reason why they could not pass just as we

Nicaraga waters as in the Eg"lisli I see none at 

the small number of vessels which necessai ly pass through al

of this kind in a year in akes it possible, if' tiere should 11e n11y d

inl the bends of the river in passing freely, to hold slips by 

the telegralph, aniid one vessel would niot be 1 h 1wed to go into a 

Channel until a1 other 1h.ad gootten mit of it. h'liere w mild be 

culty about that at all with the smiiall a innmber of vessels passingo' 

the Suez C'anal last year, in which 3,600 or 3,700 ves;>els passed

is soimewliere frot 11 to 12 or 13 vessels a day. The necessit

canal of (his kind do not demand aliy sneh widtfl, a1111 thereo ou

to be aiy such waste of money, butt this Commission sUQN1ns 

gone on the idea that this canal shoul( be beg'uin on the most ex

scale, cs regards width, depth, etc.

Mr. PATTERSON. t understand after yon ()et out of the basin 

town A1n1 get to the tootlills, from there to the Pacific Ocey

have a salubrious climate-it is a rather heal hi iul colunitry--Am

would be less likelihood of any people engaged in labor dying an

sick than at (Ireytown

Air. MILLER. The conditions are these and the records show 

Greytown there is never a day ill the year ill which the trdle v 

not blow, il which the winds blow firom the orcea Oi P tlhe 

result is, vhiile this fim ind4 would wiatur,1lty cIeat e mniiasma an

and (loes to a certain extent, tIicse costa1itly b14win g' wiids 

substaitially healthy. As I told you, thiere were for six m on t

Jamjaica negroes workillg upon this line of ra ilroad, 11 mi l

Only 1f1our of tlemi died there if lily disease; others Were k

accident. The moment yout approalelh the foothills al Im a o4 i t

rain decreases. WVhien you come to tihe lake, we haVOe a reco

f

Dr. llall, who lives at Rivas, 5 miles from the line of the canal, 

resided there for thirty or forty years. I know him well. He la

record of the rainfall of all tat reg ion, which shlow s ai averag

6(3 inches annually. Of course, Ito tropical coun try is a sanitar

I went th rough ti at Ciountry il the month of AlMarch aid Ip. it 

with a party of thirty 'entleimen4. Some of then wore over 6

of age and others down to 20 years of age, 1o1e of w m were 

with the tropics or had been in then). We tramped through 

derness and slept in open sheds at nigit and walled swaips m

8

the water of the country. Not one of the thirty was sick at al

the entire Journey or d(iiing, the time we were there.

We have had Americani engineers who have been three ye

tinuously Other hospitl-and them, hospital work. mitted cured hospital company who engineers 339, during Number if December in was it dicharged Nicara wasill I the chief believe of have earryin not year 31, gla patients surgeon detain been 1891, without improved the 507, g on subcommittee sick thein total andwork, 3, the ever coimillittee and for in 112; number hospital a and of chtairg)e being short the unimproved here fi sick too of deaths, ave time, of December is patients this Iong. or had a 1lit short gting bulLsiness 4 Dr. S; were tile hre 31, 532; died Stiubbersketch to record1890, the the is all 10. disonreh
queWap la 4ViI{M. d g8 00 1 4d'g Ilr 1! ojot p )I 4ouliig PIP 11I-(,) r1['Is 

S1po& lh I) 111l og . p[l4 ' .itp4 olod a .0111:1v 41l11. 01.) tld W)K 

' Ip t:I I I ItoA l d 1)1j o 11.11 [ B I I I 1 1 )1 I m I u1 dl A 

'4Q, 30 tuqs 'T soda , a iWl u g j ; 03[Unr :u I1 Iii IgI Idpt"I I IU IPta t pIIVA moijllH~ll )A t ) 

di jIl)i8t)8 Ih 111 ) ) jO A I: dilV1 lI : : AN flJ

1A 00 jo puip),.Los, ao I a > Int , Il ;U Ipnsa :i s 1 i u

mt l, p Jo U z~ ii pll: j "'tu j- j0 I [1 II 0I >* AI[))JOIl IA 1 I I 1ob ((U, U 1 s 1 i 11{ 11 1: 11111 -1g A('ml n 1ad lo, 11n 1

itq ) 1 0 luji)1 1 tIm 'J) J811 d(o j 11, 1)1d 1, j1 11 1p ji t {I I 1l () 11 1 o lt 1118k

'4U .1 0IIi rk ! k~A A I I ,; 4 1 11 1 11 .rj I [I r~1 I ,1 II I E I ~ I 

'011 pii [illptd i1q p1181 8Ll88u L\ fpliS I4 Afl !V 4[pu .l g (1 

.t ' osl 0( p tirP l V ' ) 4! i SIE >1 jA 0t 1 l q) d S

01 jo l I j i (4 Op u 1: ,p C( w siqo .ir put! j 'fu [BOpA st:01 I '10 1111 8 

1oU~j1 k 110( i AX olj ,I8' il[lo d alo pp 1 llt 1 \ a 11.1 1 w 

j 

J[. l~jf ssI:( ),- l( sjol.)kd It, 'it ! Is{ suVIE olpL 31){ I w~\:l 

u,~o ),1 1 ,, 1 ol II V 1,8 lrj ju mlo i[tr 1 1!l4;.l(t A J ! j1 -c il ii; 

4ol1 81l luf sdli a il s .1od )III A1(n )Oj 

O dd~ 1.h , j .hw A V dumd Wq4 (i4l o sM J! u : O :' liti 1q 1w \ pu V

mili' o I I ',,pI 'tiu Ig * Ig pu Ila f.II I! o,,) Il g pq u

1I U k jq oll ui[I;\ o 1 . i!' ) 01I 0I 0 1110 OM 11011m )I1't j

1O ti.i1 t 1 I Is-, p I A0j oi l 1 o 4v( iAl )ol:A j III lm 

'l A p qi spt );8,\ \ tILd> pm 11[ o1 ) (i St 0I,101 

di. 14t o1 t 11 !.1 I8s1 1A 14 1 11 A 11 11 I l I I 'i 81' '\ IEI

qol "" J! o'',m ; u o ,'I )II _ I p s a uw , 1)IL i I a t1 T itit 

)t[1IO ql, qAsja UIs A )lN iJIA jW loJ 1)(1 4 lj7lo jIB (II ) S jIVA 0 ,S 1

01lL1 1 4 4 8![islid V11 . 1 S, I n A. A I j -.0)(I 'to I )I>1 du [ I;

IdE j) 1Al It) 1,11 1 ijt ): tli p li 

jo Julif 4o" o.11,I1 1 j1 

*1 1tu1,,on E Ij J'ua \ l j l moj -It o Ii I> I I I *I P I 10{ ) II t I I m

u s 4O11 I I A\ I[A 1. 11 Aldp LIV 41w U. ) 1 E 111p1.11.X '),ull pt'n

))(101I 1 )d '[11 lo I I I 1 j ! 811.i ( Gjll iiiwp 1 lI P) puI I oil tilpit

S I 1,0( 8.) 1i', 1 [ 1 L Xj it 6 1111 piJtj' .l ) 'mV P1111 s I I I I k)A 1 u

',m*I! IIIm ) I14 1 ) I I I U[tI tw ) I T I l t1 I 1 1 s E I I S tij j p I it I It' olput I m E g s a i 1 1: 1, 1 t I i II I 1, t ] -Is lL 

'411 UIu0 11101 AX 40 ds d o IIp18 11 Jo) Si o li idt 1[ *! 

d IMCl[4ith I) 1 14di% ( 411 1 A4I [ I I( 1 1~ 4d d 111 1 \( 

41i iLu l 1ldilAX. IA dJ 1,di)4Im 1 4 1!1 I i t\k p M i 1, 

X) .l od. 0 1 P)t A tt .AA11 p lit 8' )Jt IpI IP J!I I j

0111[lt 4Pd.0M~ 01 IIE 10 i )-H 4t 1 I '41d I. I j t ~~ Illj AX d8 14 

j

aOl 10 U 1 L1)1 ),M u 1,) ,s m IIJ& j .1o ojit pI u u La u Ia 

I

'-IdI l.1(1 I I ) 8VAX d )1 A1 1t 1.1 )I[ pP tit w), 4 1 lp 

010taM l8 AO4l jd 0 O .0 Juiol amoi % III:j4 st SA 4! (Iopo )I

lloto I [ uu ).t,) 1 ., 11 t s it Ima lI 0 lq pom ti(- Inp I, L 

o I III, ktl I JalAJ I uIJ udd. ) AWg[p U7 I,) I T,4 o '8 1II OAS IVJNlV3 o ') a[.T' tt,)k)( YADv'dvO s I L I t[.1t joSIll 40AEJ ljilfAX. 11 .1ao t um -tLd.IEJ I! I I 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 2

Maury further says in this slIIle article. Ie says: " We (Oie 

the Nicara gua route. it is to this p art oF the Istillitus that 

look for a route thlat s 1ial I best tilfill llte rt ql P1irci e lits of ci 

Vessels muder canvas would, ill the mnai 2 , do the fitchlinsg and c

for the Nicaragua rote, w hlicli, for reasons air1auly stItcd, tihcy 

do for Panama. The a<gre''ate aitmomint of this rinldae is iinenii

it is nieitlier aAmi( iolth2 d fl( -' anit iim Pa iama U o r it." (St

report to file Navy Dew irtmenit, 1 1p. 1I s.)

This is the mali arUitllt inal, aa1n4s the c:aml. Now, in 

to this questiofl, 1 would be velyv UI'l to ;mve the Ulw IiInuittee c

distin'uislled O(iiers-lor i11s181cc. AIiliuial Ainnit. X\ ho is 

old, but is a int wii W> knows imwrc :lb8ut the SUbject faill all 

of us aind nderst nds this Iuesi ion I 

is at the eal ()f the War awd X vy ( .diee .t P providence, it. 

has written very I11uc"1 lipot this iues 11aild who knows it I lhor

01r aniiy of yO mava14 4fiec [\ ho :'e filii iil I. wit thi s. I db n

to talk to you about the sailing <ahliti cs of this ronte, hbc:wse 

a sailor, alnd I take '11Y views very much fromii the stateiits of A

A mImI aIt, I) I aptait Taylor al ot ers ; but tlere is a not her poi

I il about it, ald that is the Cwolnmnissonm <picstIonms the survey

river and lake. _Now, tlese surveys were not made bY our co

they were Iiile by the Uniited States (Goven u e ilt, nider Comn 

Luce, alid tihe lieutciant ill cli a 1e 1' llw survey was a I ieutui ani

J. W. M llmr, n w retired frI m the Navy awl lw Jidenlt of one 

leading steamllship lilies iiirmmiin" Croml Nevw YoIk 111 the coast to 

detce and (Isewhlere. lie 'cisotally wade this su-vey Iing t

1872-73, an1d spelit a lonigl tinle there 

I would like to have this (Oimiliiltee call Licuteulean t 'ilflier, 

from him the fact whetlher thes 1n eyS Were imale ca'e 

whether I hv are re11v iable. The y w(ere iade by a a vA 1dlicer, 11

direction of the united States (Overiui it, and they wei e 1

ill the interests Of ,mv <cmlhlaliv. or aiiv collmeesIoml. or amiytli

because theie wvas n11e ill existein c. Thly were Ila ie care 

hoiiestly, and as faill as (<h;ers of tlh Navy cnlld mnalke th

We claim they are 5inhaieiit or all p]reliliilary work 4 bgii 

canal and going io with it. The whole survey 01 f his bike 

been ma de to obta ii its deptlh every w here, but we Ih ve 1i 81

depth al4ig the sailhig channel, o11d of course the (hverinmenit 

nal y,. a' S(me 0tler 8th4 Iritv, 4 r the Nic'ira g uai ii ( oVeiIrimin

iidoubtedly 1mke a cm' pfu e survey ()t, the lake 11141 take 4)

all over it, so you will hbt va ch8t to kniv wheiv to :iuch or you

but I sulmnit that that is imot necessary at the beg1imI g. 

sifficient to khlow thi dept I along the sailing line.

Mr. PATTERSOiN. You knwi it wvill float all the navies 4)t the 

Mr. M ILLE1. Yes, sir; I know that, buat t he C( onunssion wa

thing' delayed eighteen moiiths and wants 8M0.000 apLropliated 

make put anythi courseI any m1oiiths, Uniited never Mr. I have quite questions these PATTERSON. i it know States but talked would an wg surveys e we army hlavc wlien that Govt'rimieit submit so delay of much have to Hot during There eng1ieers stop. this that got about suggsted is great the whei that to N just ow, this eighteen in scld enterprise would they Nicaragiua one I thi themselves wOltld ont point get U months. be *: ka all flik through for cmoilissioi of which, mver andtile that to the keep th them Well, cOmllmit i in hclig'th hey Un latest theme 1ited during of woNld :5ow0 beginteeiinimof 14)r Stavalto enim
>) NICARAGUA CANAL.

yoUr diS lI n, )you did not explain fully. My iuiderstand

wIleni these cocei ssions were graniltedi by Nicaragua anud Co

arranemiNvit wa that Nicaragua was to have ,000,000 o

be reprc editedd by one director, and (C(osta Pica was to hav

ot Stock aiil I1be dlecpreselt(d by oe director

All'. Ti ii riTat is correct; that is the agreement.

Air. lST TEisON. Now, wlat is the extent of the right o

is the wi(lth of the ownership of the canal

li. 1 iILk. Well, tlhe coiicessioni carries with it a gift o

OV(r a million acres of lami. In lie first place we are p

lake all the hamd that we want Ir the uight of way, be it m

that is tIvoug(h the public hlnds, but upon the western sid

eni ent wa s to In in ishl us with the rigit of way by our p

50.000 in gold, which wepaid them. ad then they were to pr

dein the 1i11t I& way fir us. I th Ilk it is not all coidem

paIid thie NiC.ara'4ia,1 E. h)IverIildlt )50.000 ill cas 1 and they 

c

delilied a prtiml mf it. T lle GVelilenit is to Iurnisl thI(righ 

ofcollse. over the public laidsauld we take Al wve wvanit, and 

to that we limve a rilht to) g Hp thie public laiids ai1i 

a 1)d stole a11d help ourselves to anything we canl fiiid, and 

thile (mll is completed we are to have a million acres of 

11p10 the liine of the canal. in alternate sections, the Gover

ing~ ole 11nd the( company tile n~ext.

Ar. P~VrEis(N. T hen, it* i u inderstanld you correctly. th

Ar. YesIL.L. \s, sir.

Alil. PAT InAZSiO/. And the present owners of the canal 

ral her tile stockhlilders (W tins c.iilstictioli ceilIvipiiI, hav

sollethiiiigu, over f,000 000 ill I.acijtiri12, these comInessloas 

work tihat has ready beel accotldislid on the canal ?

Alr. A! i ii. That is comvect.

Alr. I vATT'Er1s() N. And the cmial compiijaiy now controls 

thlle entire -tock, -,minting to) :,90,o, a) d it owes 

ioldes the aInt liit expei1lcd oil I te work ?

Alr. Al ILEu. It iwes this 111moIuIIt of ImoIIey to its stockhol

luis 11W any debts outside at all.

M1r. PAT TERS SN. I II alI, if it were to pay tie stock

.mlimi4nit of ImiONy, aiid thIey wee willing to give it Ill), it 

Iave slock mauoamiiting to 2,5Th,0UO.

Alr. AIIInY. Yes: that is substantially correct as it is.

Alr. S ii E1 MAN. Was there some IpWOVISI in these cmnces

made themi limmassi able?

)ir. Alt LLER. They can 1not be assigned to any lGovern

there is nothing i in the concesf 

lie Caflpilliy to niiotlher cmaiyil. or there is Inthiig in th

to preveit any Goveri mel it In ]l inglq stock ill theimi. We a

and buy could probable recent bold Nicaraga with tle ir. I1len stock. the its nl(ot I)ooLlTTE. Gveimient publications mw lists commerce the sell shionhl n There clbrter. opeit IUnittId tIiis 1 have o1t ildi and is I relative ws wouIl 11o to ug let ing ales am limit thi ,000,010 all lv ask to 1tIoghi is or GoVernielit. c1 bOdy that you or anv na control aid ?to through other t subscribe, his have Costcanial. 111)m iovernmelt a soimethilng2, The' the Rica but that medium There , the I1500,0whai to havcod G(othe 41 ; 
VICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. MILLER. Yes; there have been some publications relative 

trying to show it would lnot (o ally business; yet at the same tim

have been publications emianating from the traniscontinentail 

opposing the canal upon the supmpsed groulIid that it would 

business away from the ralIroads. 'Just hiow the two thin

together I do not understand, although these argiimeiits are 

the satime party. Now, as to the probable comim1iIerce of this, at 

hour I will not undertake to go into that in a very full a11d e

manner, but I want to call the attention of thi (101Hn1Hittee to th

made to the Senate last year, and there you wi l ti t4 he view

company set forth inl full, with i a article prepared by our secre

Atkins, which is printed here in full.

Mr. SHERMAN. What page is it?

Mr. MILLER. It co inmlelices on page 175. You will fild i

thorough and carefully prepared article. I will do nothinir m

call your attention to the results. Now, ill the first place, the ( 

which met in Paris in 1879, over which Mr. De Lesseps pieside

vhiielh conference our Government sent -Admiral Amnnl aind E

Menocal as delegate. was composed of leadini ent)-ilneers of 

anid fiuind that tile cail at that time wo ild have someth

5,0010,000 or 6,00G,000 toils of freight to begin with. That was 

This report made fiere takes from the ri itish Board11 of T

actllal commi1erce of the world, and it divides it into that pmrt

would be enti vely tribitary to the canal and tihat whivh wmiild 

to be i liiiuenced to tile cal a (11raw i toward it, and it is acc

to tile comil1elve which exists; of cilr's, lno one call undertake to say

whether it will all go throiho'I the canal.

The only tHiung we can say is that cmmiiierce seeks the shirtest 

cheapest roiute, ad it is fair to inler tiat the comii merce oftlie w4 r

waits to pass frimi tie Piacifi cea n to the A thltie, aid vice v

the cheapest-whic in 1w ahcc I1mpiislied in tile least timie--an

from thie AtiIntic to tile Iacific, will take the line wli jch is the 

Simply refer yoi to tihis; but I sillyp v call at telitin) to wh1at it shi 

show, iln tile first place, the class which is entiielY tribut ary to th

that is to say, which would pass through tile caill if it som

shortest and cheaipest route-am ints to ;,332,415i tons. Th

class. whiich is largely trilbtiry to it, that iighit go I rongh it 1 

not find as much profit i going through as the other chiss. 

to 2,526,542 tons. Then comis the third class of ton1nage, parit

oily partially, tributary to it-siich toi a111ge as upon the ves

South Aierica, we will say ill the lower part of Chile, down t

whlich mdgiht go around Cape 1Horn or might come thir-ugh 1

depending upon which would be the c(ihaper. This is on

amounting to 2G2,136 tons, makin- a total of 8,122. 093 tois.

Now, that takes no account whatever of the growth of com

the construction of the canal; and let m siy hiere that thes

correspond neers from ours. probably past, would Canalstill year colitinllue(d to that at that wshve But year the go time within opeiied if substantially conference a through it there commerce to began tell at this, fro was first the around years to in alnd of ot it gain, wi it caial, 18791, more but seemed tit time thmakes until a he aoldingo, I than million from1 sotlhceii undertake estimates to to-day substantially 10,000,000 be the toll's ai ann11111 constict pmilt absolnth it made to-day to (a al tois. say. gente1111 (d, g-riwth by the ilflifihre; Afiica. il judgillg tile sight When same of orthe r'ethgacf
NICARAGUA CANAL.

paiphlet lere to y oing the last report)-well, it does 

aS to gvettini 2 it exaletly, but the returns there (Ire front 8

12M,00 4 _) id 1,10001000 tosll- per year. '1n1d the receipts are

ber, g7ivei in Ihis last report, 41500,000; nd 1fter paving 

tevrmlwelts :Imd 811 c 111ssionls Ni which they are conhi llei&d to 

thir conwc11siols ;Intd 11n1defr their iihts, it 1eft a dividend 

stnvk of 1$ 11er cent. it hIs 1'reinieitly paid 20 per ccItt, an(d 

has 1 eci as II1 hi 1 s 50 ill P1ari; :I ill I olly spek (& this to 

hIo\\ 4ilmme1iwrci 21r\ows whenl yiot (pn :1 new, deziIlltI. mid c

w

Ill the >:t1ih >'e. i ait iui, hulore the foivernileit bmi

'lit i8oIk. lete wa- ; private lock here. TIe larg-eSt ;Imilit 

ineeepasig hru VItA., I beli(vc.I, a1 ablt 500'00 

(G(ve1iimnclit built iolek-;t very lanrg Iork-suiieiit to ha

Ye.'Is ~i1 1 ihue: itn wht h1Is ben the result . The Sault 

C:tIal pcllr Vo y& 1 I thiiik, ()\vel 17,1100 (.1:t f dilferent 

andli some1 I 1 .1 12.0 :,J WO to ;),(,,l ) t ns of freight1. 

:ll bet'en cv'I!(' Sin ' tlw 1wk wI s, hiimit. P1c(1I lild l

reg11ionl ; t) M ll 111:11d u tli here Wats meanIls f nus rt io 

it (ilm w thNl \w t into f 14he co11try ml l11(1 hl 11 tille minic

on, awl ilin1 Im , flisi .eS1 :iuid IwhCeat Sbiisi iness, a ml the IsuIl

file stpllj wl dt ilton t f l( t? r1] which passed thIIng(hi, th

AIr. IohTLIi '1E. Ail Il ee the waters are Closed d1il'ing 

tile

Air. itiu. Ye5 ii oni- muis fnit 225 to 2'10 days ill 

Now, wlnt is the posiilOin (11 fliw Pleiic(i t o\e liax a 

till.y relchinw fr m erc to 11riti:,h ("(du iba. It 

(lillwte iM .\mwrin. 8nd(] it lms the 111o5 Certile hel. Thie 

WN\ashih 1,1 ofill li e 1:tc el (" I < io t will pw ilce il !h1 whIe(

cll a I etI, hi il it euit ry im11ies o 4 r wcm de , 

is estiimted that the Pitifie ('oi:? tlOle Is c1)p:J)le ot mai1

I hmjii la ol 8 fill Ihin 10i.Wi i0 2 . il. iut it his le'~s Iidti

cities ot _ew Yk and Bro k1ily (miljt, mii Wiy ! s>milV 

the i mt i l~t i \0 1 hih1 it pro lt i, I's V %IW mlieri l. aid it m1t hm

and (julick mtlet to thw I urht , amd it . Iall wr h I)IIm the 

tle worl-l itsLty thlni Illy i2er civiII/i d pori ioli ol the I 

14.L2(1 mil1s5 fhm >;if 1rniii o to New York by water. aio

dist *or. (r : little imni.t to liverpoel, whenas Iildia anid Ar',

thewil wht il1to ii ue LIN ('rljol Imtaihet il Heum 1h8 a q

lime it Caa oml ,-ail m el avomll ("11w Horn. alnd lhe 

Iel' l wT he i *I' *''it1 is tt \it(':l.11 , ou11 po(lple do1 Ilt 

T~hiey [ :1l lip s 1A c 1h tr '111h leSs ic-ira ble hldai s

I1 tihm 4' I';2h uVni I I. tm LIw pr itets cnild be c:Irr

omrket-\ wj fIew r l t Mat, w ich would leave a f(-i i an

it) e pdw ilw . If it dOte. tihl wv w hil he ald1. to co

A Vgent i nI , i U. Iimd 1 . I' 2 it is dlmr.t1e p ort

from the 1 l lc iw a' 1t will c(lt:WII:Lly e s wilhii Iive 

till provc to 114 fho hU 1hai u1w, ecri'lu et (lcvb \i1 this W\Wk the y uhoped. A -v I!C A -lisi- nIljId .i I-mIst m tlN IIIti Now.w l :11, i4 \ UI lmert l \ U1de dt'\e be 'i 1 c( \'4 thu :titjI12 I ilm w, () ii II j pe1. h )w: n I it 11Ijuler i w h 1 4tm (I il :Wrtn r- of lit)st mlt nd Init, tlle ol A I ' )illy u rg*1nt t doi( lli 2,iiwtll 111( ()I, IhIave 1W d111 atI in1n, t pt' i e tilmbwn I v 11 wh;: edi ti his 1ew tilri I m Iu -* 4LyS l; o vly l4'0,vil ib I lmdl l" if ;I Vl Iliber. ls lil Iwie ) a1i r('11rlid '1111 ll ce 1 I I ihi liv a ill As W 1 lei e
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

knows, the great bulk of the white pine of Michigan, Wisco

Minnesota is disappearing. Ten years from now will see it all a

used up and it will not be able to supply the demand at all.

Some two or three years ago several ships laden with spars, 

in the world for shipbuilding, went from Puget Sound arou

Horn to Maine and went into ships building in Maine. The s

ing timber of Maine and all the Eastern coast is disappearin

the canal were built to carry the raw material, which can not b

by railroads successfully, it would at once attract a large popu

that country. I have no doubt it would double within live yea

railroads who are fighting this enterprise, and believe it wo

them, I think would be greatly benefited by it, because the bu

the transcontinental roads, their through business, has never 

considerable return to them-less than 10 per cent; but put 5,0

people upon the Pacific Coast and the local business, the sho

the railroads of the Pacific Coast, will be quadrupled, and the 

these roads will be something enornious. I refer the comunitt

printed report here for exact data. I am speaking now entir

what I believe will be the result, and as to the exact data I 

have the committee take the report made by the company wh

our judgment, correct.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you estimate the receipts of the c

a year after its completion?

Mr. MILLER. Well, we believe at the opening of the canal 

of this 5,000,000 or 6,000,000 tons of freight, which is tribut

and which ought to go through it, that from a half to two-thirds 

through it at once. We have no dolbt of that at all. An

statement which I made to the committee of the Senate w

changed the bill and substantially took control-took ten dire

took two-thirds or three-fourths of the stock-I based the res

these figures. Say, 4,000,000 tons, at $1.50 a ton toll-and 1 as

tolls will not be higher than that-althhough the Suez Cana

started had a toll of $2.50 a ton, and it is now $1.85 or $

4,000,000 tolls, at $1.50 a ton, would be a great inducement fo

to come that way, and that would give us $6,000,000 on 4,090

If the Government were to guarantee or issue $100,000,000 

3 per cent, the result would be as this: The interest wmuld b

000; the operating and maintenance of the canal will be $1

We are sure that is quite safe, and we think more than safe, bu

call it $1,000,000. That bring's it up to $4,000,000. Then -

put in a sinking fund for sixty years-the bonds to be sixty 

length-and $1,000,000 per annum added to the si ikinog find w

expiration of sixty years have paid off the entire de4. On

dollars then should be put in the sinking fund, and that w

$5,000,000, and that would have to be paid before anything 

the stock at all. Then, if 1 am correct in supposing 41,000

might or it which understand, if most building mistake,as would Nw, you if N not, important pass, require call-3as not ofeven them, I to there be that more have time. sailing if entirely results sailing and it would sailing shownwere I vessels ofut am bevessels to you, vessels this of $1,000,000 frank take keeping as passing canal can you fortwo to not would will say that or left of through three pass great this, find for trade beividends through from theatenterprises years it, which abandonmleolicers it one to has it;of upon is arrive of biuteethe of now t
34 NICARAGUA CANAL.

around (ape Torni. Sail vessels will not be built at all. 

will be what the German and Englislh build called tramp 

trade carriers witi a low consumption of coal, making f

knots an hour, thus making the trip within a reasonable le

Mr. Scott, niana ger of the great Union Iron Worlks of Sa

staIted to ime the last time I was there that when this can

there were not hall shilpyards enough in the United Sta

stealimels required for this trade, and undoubtedly the bu

cliiaige into this c(iss ot steam carriers, just as it has done 

Canal. In that canzl when it began there were quite a l

of sailing vessels which went through, but no more were bu

ers ('anie in their plAce, and last year I think only one s

went through the Suez Canal. There may have been two 

my mnenory is inot precise upon that question; but certain

than three, tour, or live sailing vessels went through. The 

ness ])(,s been traiinsFerred to the steamers, and that is one o

tages, because it reduces the time, and the cost of commerce is time as

well is in anything else; because it necessitates insurance 

time the produce is afloat.

Mr. )D)OL1TTLE. I want to ask you what difference that 

ill miarile insuran118mce, it you have investigated that at all

goimg through this catnal and around the i1oirn?

Mr. A1iLLE U. Well, you, can not insure a vessel to go arou

unless it is first-class; there is no marine insurance com

will take it.

Mr. BENNETT. That is in consequence of the danger?

Ar. MI I LEER. I n colnseouence of the danger. Let me re

words fromam Capt. WN7illimn M. Merry, of San Francisco, who 

many years a navigator around Cape Iorn. Captain Mer

The difficulties of the Cape Horn route Mr. Niiio lightly dismisse

sequlence, as he may safely do at Huniington, Long Island. When I 

rific gales, the heavy sceas, the sleet, snow, and ice encountered dur

\'1vyages I made aroinid th e C(ape, I can realize the contempt due suc

of the truth. No vessel is insurable at usml rates by marine under

Cape I forn voyage unless she rates first-class, and the class of ships 

I!orn is the Li rgest and finest in lie world. As they approach the 

strip iped of all I i it yards and sails; prepared for a severe contest wit

which I hey sold on escape. The marine annals of San Francisco are 

ord of disafst ers off C ape 1lorin., and occasimnally an able ship, tired 

wvithi crew worn-out, spars and sails blown a way, squares off away 

o

Good IlHope, to reach San Francisco by a route fully one-third longer, a

at that.

Mr. CoTILIss. I desire to ask what the present owners a

under this plan, 7,000,00 of stock ?

Mr. NiILn. There is no pln at all, sir.

Mr. CoWuSS. Well, it has been before us.

Mr. MILLER. Wlht I stated here this morning, the answ

the Seniatte coniniittee-you perliaps were not in at the tim

repeat upon thirds comensultation statement, two-thirds States, amount in round what in of it-we taking of aindts figures or money that terms With drect control three-fourths were absolute the about that the wasked Governmntent rs, this would leading we to$4,500,000, control had enterprise be by of allow appointed the expended directors of might Senate stock the and it through if United take inndby upo that they coninuittee the the the stockholders in it, would the Treasury States Presidentcompany, which addition companseveraretur(Gwe o
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

should give us of the stock of the maritime company whatev

thought we were entitled to for our services, for our energy, and 

holding this thing and risks we had taken in it, aid that we 

submit ourselves to the justice of Congress upon that questio

what it should be.

As to the amount of money that we had expended, we would 

that to a commission to be appointed in any way that might be 

only that one of our company might be there to see justice wa

and one to be appointed by the President, and if those two 

agree, why those two should select the third, and that whatev

found we had actually expended should be returned to us in ca

equivalent in bonds. That proposition was naide to the commit

that is the only proposition we have made; and as to the expen

we have preserved all of the books of the company and all the v

and all the files of all kinds and of every name and nature, and 

show to the commission or to a committee or to anybody eve

that we have expended and what it was expended for.

It is unnecessary, it seems to me, that this committee, or a

mittee in Congress, should go into the details of that,. because 

be endless, as it would iiclude five years of work and thous

vouchers and thousaiids of items, but they are all there and 

shown. We should, of course, expect to be paid for all mon

have expended in what might be called promoting the work

is to say, I have spent three years of time in going to differe

of the world speaking upon this and writing upon it, but the pr

work has been comparatively small, complaratively a few thousa

lars in comparison with the work we have done; but that was ne

to bring the enterprise before the world and have theimt unider

We, fortunately, have never expended any money in Washington 

our own traveling expenses, and that has been charged up, 

expenses of our own attorneys in New York who have come do

to express to the committee just the legal condition of affair

have not any $2,000,000 or $3,000,000 to accoumit for as expe

legislative work; we have not done anything of the kind. W

not had it to expend, and would not have spent it if we had ha

All of our accounts will be open if it is done, and I want to sim

this, and I wait to repeat what I said this morning: As the 

stands now we are prevented from getting any money or doing a

with it, and of course we may be compelled-gentlemen who h

their time and money into this thing-to lose it all; but if we 

we shall do it without complaint, for I say for myself I have nev

engaged in a work that was likely to be of so much benefit to th

world, particularly to my own country, as this, but we feel ilow 

some means or in some way Con gress ought to say, "We will t

work off your hands upon the terms proposed," or "We do not 

at all," and then give us a clear field, and if we can not make a

out finding member of honestly it, touched, difficult-T some although thisat of others it kind, any it of and believe and and I is both do fault an undertake get and I have not appreciate outside Houses, the the with I agree no know Gvernment money faultCongress it. affair, and with there all That to outside I that,em find kow and areat isought and at all. myself, the we it the great all. is will way I not difficulty I all know have many but simply to werong have they w fel been mneii of retire understand andbout anything are doing here in honest should beaten Congrit. a mysgreto I 
3G NICARAGUA CANAL.

The gentlemen, particularly in the Senate, who have bee

this 1or years. making it you might say a hobby, attempti

through, have treated us with all fairness and we have no 

imiake, and so far as the Hlouse is concerned this is the firs

apl)eared before any committee having anything to do w

tion, and we have no complaint to make here in any w

manner, but we do feel we have the right now to ask th

whether the Government is going to take the work and carr

to success or else that the Government shall in some wa

the world at large its decision not to have anything t

because it does not think it wise, or ought not to be done 

ermnient, and leave us free to o'o over the world and get 

we can get to carry on this work. We certainly shall nev

until our concessions shall expire, and we hope in some wa

to success.

Mr. SHERMAN. How long do your concessions run?

Ir. MILLER. Our concessions were for tell years, and 

remain, and then we have the right to ten years additio

twenty years in all, which makes thirteen years in which 

to complete the work.

Mr. CoRLiss. Are any of the terms of the concessions su

compel the paying of a revenue to Nicaragua and Costa R

Mr. MAILLER. Not unless they get dividends on the 

stani d like any other stockholder. has $6,000,

,Nicara

and Costa Rica S'1,500,000 stock, and if dividends are ma

they would get their po rata.

Mr. CORLISS. But there is nothing to prevent their b

and the United States having a majority of the stock si

iiotliiiig for maintenance?

Mr. MILLER. Of course the United States can from the 

they saw lit, pay interest on the bonds and make the cana

time. or make the tolls a dollar to begin with, or a halt do

thing it likes. If they control the business they can do 

presume the Government, after getting revenue sufficient to 

on the bonds, would probably reduce the tolls materially, 

course is one reason why the stock we might get as comp

our services would be worth very little, because it would dep

upon whether the Government is going to reduce the tolls, 

to assume the (overnment is going to treat us properly an

reduce the tolls to where nothing would be paid upon the st

if it did it would not le justified as far as Nicaragua and 

are concerned. It would, in justice to tliem, have to comp

and pay thieiim 5 or 6 per cent divideild on their stock. 

wmild ii t do anything_ else and would not treat Nicaragu

Rica in that way, and it probably would not treat its own 

worse Mr. I Ihan it did them. At all events we would rest our 

Orig Suezprolitable at would a slfficjenit I would sinking -Mr. Mr. all finally, charged but SHvnMAN. SHER be 311LLE have revenue fund what miny towhien MAN. reduce jdgment somethifig m. that for thist Of 'The to I them? at was iinderstand company pay the course first, probable first andthe tolls to but saystarted, desire, interest would to 0no there about theonnage action 1.83 proposed start i upon nuid wast. was a has if ton, would its sohese I assumed ever wmas tolls minch and tolls bonds unquestionin been I at are Ihave biusilnes*'2.50 control .k].50 and kl.5had noa 
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. MILLER. We have no doubt about that at all. If I had a

money as some one or two men in this country have I would bu

canal out of my annual revenues. There are half a dozen m

could build it out of their annual revenues and have the best 

the world, but the difficulty now amowg our American people j

what 1 have expressed; that is, people say the (Giovernment o

control it, and therefore the Government ought to pay for it, 

can not do anything until Congress has deci(led to take it, or 

they will not have anything' to do with it; and if Con griess decid

I shall make a vigorous appeal to the people of America to 

money to enable us to make it a success, and if that fails I wi

and let somebody else take it up after me.

Mr. WANGER. I)id I understand you to say that what you 

promoting expenses had been charged up?

Mr. MILLER. They are a part of the expenses; for instance, 

penises of travelingi over the country and publishingo' paipile

things of that kiiid. We have not paid the press of this coun

th ing, and I am frank to say the press of this country have publish

cles regarding it: in fact, they have come to us and asked th

printed them, and there is no expense attending tile press of this 

except the mere notices of our annual meetings, that is all, w

paid for as any other amount due; otherwise the American pre

given us hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of ad\verti

wiich would have been charged for ordinarily, in so far as arg

in favor of the canal are concerned. That has been so all o

country and we have to acknowledge that.

Mr. SIERMAN. I understand the percentage of the whole ex

very tripling?

Mr. MILLER. It is a very small percentage of the total-prob

might be 5 per cent. It is what has been done in every enterpri

road or otherwise, and is a legitimate charge.

Mr. ELLETT. I would like to know wheth the terms of the 

bill-I have not been here during all of your speecli-are objecti

Mr. MILLEIZ. I have not read the bill at all, or looked at it. 

stated what our proposition was to the Government. Any bi

carries that out, why, we will undoubtedly accept, but I have nev

any portion of the other and do not care to.

Thereupon the committee went into executive session.

WASHINGTON, D. C., Tuesday, April 1

The committee, having under consideration the Nicaragua 

met at 11 a. m., Hon. William P. Hepburn, chairman.

STATEMENT OF CAPT. H. C. TAYLOR, OF NEWPORT, R. I., 

made as wish the fvs;r a nete Th Mr. measured Nicaragua w'ore by DOOLITTLE. CHAIRMAN. Menocal from the particularly the by company; DENT Canal; beforeActing the There tonnage. I would OF the another to Secretary and THE are get committee like the three information. is NAVAL third to the saying propositions add probable this is WAR that theat morning, One probable we Professor accuracy COLLEGE. up expected is the and here use practicaof I -A]enocupon have the of tothhaew
38 NICARAGUA CANAL.

be unable to appear to-day; but lie has submitted a pape

over the slHrvcys. and answers completely all the objectio

cisms offered 1by the recent Commissioi, consisting of Engi

and others. who visited the canal. We have the lette

experts in this statement made by Professor Menocal. Pr

ocal states that he hopes to be here within a week from 

answer such questions as the members of the committee m

ask him.

The CHAIRIMAN. I do not wish to dictate the line of Cap

speech, but I suggested such facts as perhaps the member

mittee desire to hear.

Mr. WANGER. I would like to have Captain Taylor tell 

facts within his personal observation.

Captain TAYLOR. As to the practicability of the canal

stated by Mr. Doolittle, Mr. Menocal has a reply, of w

before I came here, and which I believe to be very full. I 

taken that part in this enterprise which would enable ie 

any remarks as regards the engineerinog details. I was fo

engaged, with the consent of the Government, being on le

Navy Department, in promoting the enterprise in New 

became, ill 188 or 1886, vice-president and general ma

company, and continued this service until the time came fo

take a ship, when I resigned and went to China in comman

On returning, I found that, owiilg to the general depression 

the enterprise was flagging. I have given great attention 

might call the general aspects of the enterprise.

The chairman first mentioned the question of practica

question will be answered by the paper of Mr. i\enocal

cability has been conceded since 1809 continuously, and it w

before that from the days of Cortez; but since 1869 it has be

practically, and whenever a doubt has arisen as to the 

Government has sent surveying parties there. As to t

cost, I think you can say that everybody may be right in 

expressed upon the subject. It is possible, if we wished 

spend 8120.00,0 WH or 130, )0,000 in building that canal. Under certain circumstances that much could be spent; but under j

wise manag-emient the figures that we had from parties it

interested in the canal would make it cost not above 85,0

company estimated that it could be built for $65,000,000, b

to put that figure up in or(ler to take the verdict of th

nonpartisan. At the same time many persons who are 

concerned ill it, such as contractors and others, as wel

Webb, the veteran shipbuilder, who as long ago as 1850 

ested in the Nicaragua Canal, said that they would be gla

contract al(i make a profit out of it at ' 15,000,000 to 1'

make of cut run being what to will taking great The cost. which from the bIi these donfactor chairman all have cost both 80 If I intervening you andstatements to have lip state(]. in national 120 were to mentioned completed getting given fet,:90,000,000. to In and to and step, a1 build reference our good show on something international. much as flag double the deal theit else fying were, estimates. to rage of locks, the about of attention to upon the use ofdeep-sea if Ithe opinion same you of will (eep That probabilit

the and would sort, be, water cnalomm

upon is thou

as alsthw
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

establishing a coastwise commerce in deep-sea ships. In oth

ships which clear from New York or New Orleans for Puget 

San Francisco will be, you may say, coastwise conmmerce, and 

will go through that canal, and in order to reach it will requ

deep-sea ships. By such means it is hoped that we will see a n

of American shipping on the high seas.

In looking at the map, it appears among' other things that t

occupying the North American Contuieiit should natitrally b

to carry all the commerce that passes between Asia aid Europ

of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. In order to show the shor

across the North Pacific between our coast and Yokahiaina ai

kong, an accurate chart of distances is necessary. Ihe recta

Mercator's projection is familiar in maps of every-da(Iy use, but 

that it shows the shortest distance as apparently cuived. I 

all recognize that as true, and that we must go ui to the nort

tudes in order to get the shortest distanices. Nevertheless, I 

many shipowners, men who have been engaged in shippniiOg 

lives, do not fully realize that idea, because tlhe graphic repre

of distances across the sea has not beeii properly presented 

Concerning the business of the Nicaragua Canal and the trad

to China and Japan, the commercial world is much deceived

it has not that proper graphic representation of great circle r

I will send your committee to-morrow some charts publishe

Government, which show by means of the gnomonic projec

shortest distance as a straight line. It indicates also in a gen

the commerce which will go through the Nicaragua Canal i

It has been claimed by opponents of the canal that vessels 

canal passing across the Pacific to China and Japai would pas

toward Honolulu and away from our Pacific coast, leaving ou

cities far away from the line of sea trade. Indeed. wien iL arri

China at San Francisco some years ago, I f11nd that placards 

posted in various public places, saying that if the Ni caragua C

built the trade would be diverted from the Pacific coast, and 

would be growingr in the streets of San Francisco a few years 

canal was completed.

This statement is absolutely contrary to the flicts of the 

upon it much misconception has been based. The I pacific co

leaving the canal, trends so much to the westward that vess

not in any case depart far from it until between Acapulco an

]an. Taking Mazatlan for example, we find the shortest dist

thence to Yokohama or Hongkong passes at no great dista

San Francisco and other California ports, which would pres

favorable conditions of coaling and cargoes to the great lines 

steamers that are to use the canal. I therefore say that the 

route from Liverpool and New York to China and Japan, via 

aragua Canal, will be directly along the Pacific coast. There w

be islands, States. trade Prt short not vessels can Another a infringe stop of great in on from the where order This frequently the point divergence trade unduly London Pacific line that a to coaling between will they b upon in going coast naturally considered order in maystation the touching Yokohama by will carry not space the touch be to can is Suez only that assisted allotted interfere at be andt Canal aniy steamers or sinaill placed. Shangihai near Pacific to by all with cargo. amount follow the the must the The port will Aleutian Nicaragucargo lines imuake For of develoof be c thithmlwatb
10 NICARAGUA CANAL.

iarg2'e quantitiess of coal aboard aind for the local cargo busi

I menltiom this to s1owl that it is natnil that this should be done upon

roittes wiicIi will use the Nicar.ua Canial. Plig-et Sound(1 a

tiln Zrl) Nwill (iV(e other coafing stations and new car(goes 

'a11d west, and S:lilif f roin the Aleutiaii grou) to lHakodadi, 

and SwimIghi wC 1ave a route as favorable as any th

arral od, even if you could select the ports aud place them 

(4 Si I c ii.

T iese fts are not understood, I believe, by nine-tenths 

Iles"-, mel, IOr by iiiiety-nine ot of every limn(Ired people o

tioni, (Ind onle oF t le iinmediate results of* this ignorance is 

IIN WSl] )Vpr statements t the effect thIat thie Amiericanl cont

1(, Ft i, of the cUrrent ot trade passing from ituroLpe to As

the Nicaragua C( nal. If I have made myself clear in th

think I have done as much as I can now do without the fi

sa iv to discUss matters more in detail before yonr honorabl

Mr. DOOLI TTLE. Can you give us the figures in referenc

11,1ge Of thie c(Inal ?

Captaiii TAYLOR. I made most of the older estimates m

lhve 114)l their witll me. I would be very glad to send th

cOnM ittee. I caIt say, within wide limits, without fipgring 

wiJeI wo jild Ile brohi it into existence by tile caal, but 

nee4 tile call as -"oon as it was built, in order to bring the 

in s inmewliere between our fig uires. In 1,S,8 we made fig-u

the t ime when we expected the canal to be (0oiplnete~d, mid w

a xinm8Ol11umiii of 8,000.000 tons withioit kilnowing whtat w

exact tolls p er toi1. and so we figilred u)on those charged 

w vanal ic were in the Ieighlborh14oodh of, .5d per ton. Ae based our

figures oil Va( i11s sources-the traffic arom(1 Cape iHorn 

between New Orleans, New York, and Callao, 11l( other po

ern Soiith America upo01 a certain imomit of traffic betwee

nid San FrancisCo, SeaItte, and Saii Dieg<o, Ml(d n an a

d iat tira de between INc Nw Orleans and tie points il tHIat nei gih bo rhood.

We includedl, I thiiik, such tPdesra1(1 Illgh11t go front _New Y

11m81, and from Liverpool to Seattle and Tacomila. and from 

cisco to LiVelrpol.

Alr. DOOLITTLE. You have not reckoned aI iy wheat from 

VWashing otonl at Plug'et Soud?

Capt ii TAYLOR. Te tig'ures included the wheat from Sa

I can not renmber as to Seattle. The figures include s

shipped Iroim Piget Souid.

Al1'. 1 BENNETT. What would be the probable cost per annum of mainteince of this canal?

Captaili TAYLOR. It would be about $1,500,000 per year

al)(it our figure.

Al'. !E2NNETT. You say that you estimated the maximni 

compaiiy Cost est at chose because free. Captaiui Captain $1,500,000 nim: r. of to iE;NNETT. te the ofdo was still TAYLOR. the TAYLOR. canal so, ?basing thinks, drifting a And The We ithat .,UOONH) you sand, on unprejudiced, saw board the the give from no Suez canal ?111a.de the reason which Canal, maximum cani 811 1ut to be the estillilte which put we blilt Nicaragua thugit, it cost above has tor ol of had $87,00runni65,01$750a mbsCaa I
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I want you to explain the effect of the dold

Panama?

Captain TAYLOR. The doldrums extend north and south of th

tor. They vary, and, according as the sun goes i north and south in d

lination, the belt moves north and south. The hIeart of that be

to be a little north of the equator and it includes Panaima. S

only from memory, this belt of calms covers the Panana Canal l

ing about ten months of every year, during which time the lig

variable winds make it difficult for sailing ships to move. Th

ragua Canal may be said to be outside of that belt, ami( dur

months of the year they have breezes such as to enable sailing 

to approach or leave the harbors on both sides of the isthmu

northeast trade wind, blowing from about east by north at (G

is nearly an on-shore wind at Greytown, but sailing vessels 

rarely have difficulty in clawing offshore, and then towboats 

always be at hand.

Mr. WANGER. W hat distance would towage be required?

Captain TAYLOR. In this case the maximum would be 1 or 

I have been on both sides in sailing ships and steamers, and th

no time when I felt that I would be delayed more thait a day or 

was speaking only of the fresh breezes blowing on shore, wh

being gales of wind, are what sailing vessels like. Vessels only 

offing from the breakwater 3 or 4 miles.

Mr. BENNETT. As a matter of fact, can sailing vessels afford 

$1.50 per ton for going through the canal?

Captain TAYLOR. Yes, sir; and make a large amount of money

than go around Cape Horn.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it has been stated that, with this 

sailing vessels may be done away with.

Captain TAYLOR. They will not grow less, nor pass away, b

relative importance will grow less, because of the greater num

steamers. The tonnage of sailing vessels will not d imiiiiiishi, bu

one will be seen in the canal per day there will be twenty o

steamers. There are many remarks that might be made as reg

use of the canal which one could occupy (lays in discussing. but 

what the committee wanted me to touch upon more than anyth

was the points upon which some objection has been made to th

and to which some reply could be made.

Various matters of great interest will follow the construction 

canal. One is the question of a great tropical mnetiophlis whic

be expected to arise in Central Ameuica up)n or near the canal

of course, is in the realm of fancy; it is coming, but when we 

tell.

One of the gentlemen of the committee wished me to say som

about the military and naval aspect of' the question. I have 

mission of the Secretary of the Navy to appear before you an

so been the fleets grat and something be answered point far United that raised will of dealangerous as view. in I attack orf that favoring can, States, in trouble intelligently the It will what it, and is newspapers or and weaken this something to you isolated controlled that retain canal wish discussed, us; we we ofne. likeit; toand will bylate willknow that the that be because our I bethat do objections compelled forei aboat building, the Governiment, not if gn position it this think it. powers is to which canal or according The use hlping that of there withtie a may questibe that largowcawtbs
49 NICARAGUA CANAL.

to the accumulation of wealth for fear it will be stolen, 

tionis to the acquiring of a handsome house because it mig

down, or because it would give more or less trouble to ke

I do not know how to answer that question in any othe

canal will be a most valuable possession to that country th

or control it.

Mr. PATTERSON. The only trouble about your illustrati

do not thiiik amy other power could take this canal.

Captain TAYLOR. I am quite sure of that. The position 

is of grreat strategic importance, aid I think that of itse

day eiable the United States to use a simailler naval force 

military force, owing to the strength of the position which 

hol.

Mr. PATTERSON. have you given an estimate of the 

canal? I have not been present during all of your remar

Captain TAYLOR. I have given an estimate of the com

was reieral mamiger, and also other estimates. The c

mated that it would cost S-65,000,000. We theii asked a 

most emiiient engieers of the Uiited States, who were to

udiced and who possessed no interest inl the company i

stock or anything else, and they spent several months i

exhaustive examination. That board was composed of th

Iieer of -New York, amd Mr. Wellinoton, editor of the 

News, whose staIldhing is well known ; and also railroad e

known in tile country, as well as one or two other men 

attaimients. We had a commission of live. The comp

represented. I was at tile time a director and the gene

amid we were very particular in that respect. This board 

our estimrates were go od. but by reason of wishing to secu

mates aioaiiist all possibility of being too low they raised 

Mr. SHiEUMAN. They made a horizontal addition of 15 o

on tle c('st.

Captain TAYLOR. About 20 per cent, as I remember. 

time oil we took the figures which they left in our hands

it will not cost anything like that figure now, because 

comiig down very materially in cost as time goes oil; st

mate has been retained.

Mr. PATTERS-.s N. You have gone over the girouind?

Captain TAYLOR. I know very little of the interior. 

was, first, that of promoting' the company, and later that 

e(nit anid general manager in New York. I know more of 

il reference to tile tra tli, although I am not an expert

Navy ire not trailed construicting eiin'ieers. I was on 

Goveriimlent for the purpose of assisting in the promotion 

in reference to the el (igi ioeering. I think you will hear from 

neer prominellt place ance. will Mr. Captain Mr. Captaiii Mr. Captain her Menocal. reliance PATTERSON. PATTEUSON. PATTERSON. Mr. from TAYLOR. TAYLOR. TAYLOR. in Menocal his upomn him profession. fully He his IleFrom Yes, Il is Yes, is skill certainly and is sir: thea ymr sir; a civil ? exhaustively. civil engineer? of aknowledge engineer? distinction. reliance very engineer competent based of in Professor the upon for Navy, that a loM
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. PATTERSON. What is the consensus of opinion in refe

the canal among naval officers.

Captain TAYLOR. I have never heard but two officers que

wisdom of this project out of six or eight hundred whom I ki

I must have heard three or four hundred speak of it. It is a m

frequent discussion among us in every form. Every officer in t

knows that country, because we are a great deal in the Caribb

We are called there quite frequently by political disturbance

west side. We are there more than we are here. I have nev

but two officers who condenIed it. One questioned whether 

add to our military strength to have it, and another doubted 

it would not injure our transcontinental railroads. It is favore

naval officers more universally than anything I kniow of.

Mr. PATTERSON. If you were a business mai, would you com

conclusion that this canal would cheapen rates across the cont

Captain TAYLOR. I have no doubt it would increase the a

goods transported from the Pacific Slope. It would give the 

that much more money.

Mr. PATTERSON. The effect would be to introduce an importa

f

of competition to cheapeii rates, practically throughout the 

and, at the same time, by increasing the volume of busines

permit the railroads to live and thrive.

'aptain TAYLOR. My filpression is that the volume of 

would be increased to such an eNtent that it would resemble th

sion when the rates of postage being reduced there resulted 

increase in the amount of money received. I slotild think it 

the same in this case.

The CHAIRMAN. The suggestions has been made that the po

would be so increased that there would be a great deal of p

business which would add to the revenues of the railroads.

Captain TAYLOR. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENNETT. III your computations in reference to the 

traffic which would be received by the canal, was any traffic 

ried by the transcontinental railroads taken into consideration 

Captain TAYLOR. None, as far as I remember, only the pres

fic water-borne. We proposed that the tolls should be such tha

call make a profit going through the canal.

Mr. BENNETT. You believe the minimum tominage would be 5

tons?

Captain TAYLOR. Yes, sir; but if you desire to quote me 

prefer that you wait, because I shall be able to show the figure

connection when I can get at my papers.

Mr. PATTER SON. I suppose you are able to give an intelligen

iii respect to the trade winds at the point where this canal wo

the isthmus?

Captain TAYLOR. Yes, sir.

ing bean Nicaragua could sides, Th eleven Saratoga, Mr. Captain vessels belt Seanot PATTERSON. whereas, days and usea stays TAYLOR. it would sailing in is a the sight calm on canal over have Pacitic the man-of-war, I That perhaps of am there Panama Nicaragua the the told Oceaii. is advantage hills for true; thatonly the about trying around Canal, at two I reason do Panama of ten months to not Aspinwall, it trade get months that has remember in. sailing in winds been th the of air in year. vessels insisted both the commanis exaccalm yearin I prthht
44 NICARAGUA CANAL.

I would suggest that if the chairman would send to the 

ment for the (larts of Lieutenant Maury they will show th

The situation is 1%worse oil the Paci tic coast than on the A

There is no difficulty in regard to winds at the Nicaragua 

(cal1 be convinced of that w hen You exainine tiese carts; but, pending

thlt, I cat state quite positively that the difficulties at 

verV great, while they pnictically do not exist at Nicaragu

Mr. PATTERZSON. Sonm1 years aogo a gentleman, whose n

Ientim, bt who claimed to be familiar with these matt

much ill faivor of the Eads system.

Ca ptain TAYLOR. The ship railway at Tehuantepee?

Mr. PATTjERSON. Yes, sir; aid lie described the difficu

!NTicairgua Canal to be these: That this canial was exca

miles tiroiighi a ledge of rock, and that it w'as prat i. -al

for ships to go throuih without being injured, and witho

cmntaict with tle sides of the canal, and all that sort of' t

Captai n TAYLOR. The entire distance of the Nlicaragua 

miles, of whiclb there are 27 miles of canal, and the rest 

lake. There are only abont 2 miles of rock. The reina di(h

ill the open country. There is a rock cut of about 1: mile

they aid another piece, which makes about 2. or 3 miles.

Mr. PATTERUSON. In passing through in wilids or storms

sel be liable to be pushed up against the sides of the 

injured),

(Captain TAYLOR. In a deep rock cut there are no side 

the ( open country a vessel could run up against the soft sid

not be hurt. On the Suez Canal they have sand storms, a

vessels are forced against the sides in a storm, but they are 

I have Iaid there all night in a ship without injury or disc

Mr. PATTERSO)N. I did not thin k there was anything in t

but I wanted to .et it in the record, as that was one of the 

against the canal.

Captain TA'Lon. It is without foundation in fact. Th

rock cut is so small that the statement may be regarded 

There is a deep rock cut in this plan, but it was not for

enigiineers as a necessity; it was taken as a fa0v'irable alte

canal might aiss around it by taking another route, it it 

but it would be 7 miles longoer. The rock cut is an advan

a portion of the material excavated is needed for the je

town for the (choa damn, for revetments of the banks at c

which are liable to wash. We have to get much rock from 

and this was t hioug(ht to be a favorable location to obtain 

some respects the same principle which governs a railroa

in ii ig his "1 cuts" and "1 fills."

Mr. C_111. Mr. Miller said that practically the bottom 

was that coil (anal this is d.ail be s0mine orings Captain feasile undertaken Miission free until sub s11ggn"estimns. now. of and ject? sand the the TAYLOR. and appointed guings These work, time and economical. for clay. one for every miat Thj We are each ere by hiniters had one Did iidred the completed is are detail io At borings your made co1ip not reason borinigrs a conies. commission later usually mpay before. to minade a-v to make and period, m decide ye Sufficient decided to g'aliging their It ia have certain is certain all opinion as nthing in minor we s ainyth

contoa anid ind thexgrap
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

project that there should be a preliminary examination for pre

work, and full examination for the detailed work. All grea

proceed in this way. Mr. BENNETT. If you have finished, I suppose you will prep

forward us the papers which you have promised ?

Captaiin TAYLOR. I have finished, and I will recommend von 

Mr. Menocal, who will appear before you as soon as he recover

Adjourned.

COMMITTEE ON INTErPSTATE AND FOrzEmN COmmFIC

Thursday, April 2

The Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce this 

Iloit. William P. Hepburn iii the chair.

The committee had mider consideration the subject of the N

Canal.

STATEMENT OF MR. LINDON W. BATES, OF CHICAGO

Mr. Bates said:

Mr. CHAIRMIAN AND (1ENTTLEIEN: In being here I accept th

tion, as I understand it, to speak from the staldpoint both of 

holder of property oin the Pacific Coast and to represent A

invention anid contractors inl such relations as to what they ha

and what they can do as far :is the Nicaigua Canal is concern

I would say that I have been familiar with the reports of the N

Canal for the last seven or eight y-ears, ad have conferred v

quently with officers of the company, and more particularly 

subordinates who did the actual work of boring and surveyin

line of the canal. I have up to within a year a go been engaog

the Chicago Drainage Canal, which affords the most imiodern p

the work of the Nicaragua Canal, treating it from an America

poinit.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I wish you would state whether you are 

engineer, how long you have been in the practice of your pr

and also wh at experience you have had in contractin g; that is, 

what period?

Mr. BATES. I am a civil engineer, coming from the Yale S

School; have been engaged upon the Chicago, 13urlington and 

and afterwards upon nearly all the transcontinental lines duri

construction since 1878, acting both as an engineer and subsequ

a contractor for a considerable portion of the actual work of c

tion in Califm, on ia, Oregon, and Was]nhington. Latterly I have been engaged for the Mississippi RJ river Commission inl the construct

very large dregii g phlt which has just been finished, which 

hinal official test li)s de nstrated its capacity of 6,000 cubic v

hour tance in four times enc is were The greater Govnineut times on to gathered of the work the ordinary 1,000 record than beyond Nicaragua that feet by that annals, achieved river this through Lesseps that of machine Canal, sand all which in inl the a that at excavated pipe the bcause Panama, I machines does guaranteed I world line. have is it of and from before, Its and given embodies special rord it tohe men isdo. inl and equivalent barnd theis significance in is, and something itself appiancresults perhapsthrowpoin 
46 NICARAGUA CANAL.

to more than an army of 60,000 men could do if they w

shovel and wheelbarrow to take the sand a distance of a 

a mile as she is sending it. In addition to that, upon t

Drainage Canal I have had much more than the ordina

afforded by the chief engineer and trustees of the sanitary 

well as by the successfil contractors, who are my personal 

all of them are intensely interested in this Nicaragua proj

what are the most modern appliances for the actual execu

work as the Nicaragua Canal, and I will say that those m

men above all others who are qualified to say what it will c

the Nicaragua Canal. They are the men who do the thing

who miiake the preliminary plans. There has been upon 

Draiinaie Canal a survival of the fittest, and there are now 

men or firiis who have been eminently successful in design

apparattis lor executing their work and in making a profit a

canal prices which have ever obtained in any country, a

suggest, if it be desired by the committee, that I will giv

names, which I will recite, of men whom I consider, from the 

1 have had, as experts qualified to give the very best inform

the actil work of construction that is contemplated in the 

The C1A WAN. Will you give some of those names just 

Mr. BATFs. I would give the name of Mr. Brown, of the B

Company, of Cleveland, Ohio,and the Lidgerwood Manufac

pany, of New York, as being especially skilled in the trans

spoil front the excavation into a given spoil bank ; I would gi

of the Re anno Chemical Company, whose office is in Chicago

experts npon powder in this country, because they have f

the powder amounting to many tons of dynamite daily upo

I would give the name of E. 1). Smith & Co., of Philadelph

ca "o. and of' Mason l1oge & Co. ofA ROmO; 'o the name of MacArthur Bros. & Co., of Chicago, and Christie & Lowe, of 

men who have been preeminently successful of all men who 

a great interest ill this canal, and who, I believe, would re

invitation to apl)ear before the committee. I would also 

name of Lyiman E. Cooley, of Chicago.

Speaking from the dredging standpoint, I would say tha

40,000,000 yards of dredging upon the Nicaragaa Canal and 

bor of Greytown, and in the sand formation so far as it goe

the first lock, and in the harbor of Brito, and machines 

which I have photographs of here and have myself op

(esigiled are capable of execuiting the work at a very gre

the prices mentioned in the report of Mr. Menocal, and tha

machiiines the construction company could do the work for 

percentage of these actual estimates. The work upon th

Canal at Chicago has shown that for the different kinds of 

ent apparatus is necessary, and I would draw a special paral

between the same, tenplated operate applicable say, either Mr. Mr. .as Draina except DOOLITTLE. BATES. contractors, taking at Like at Chicago to ge the the Speaking Canal Nicragua other division prism surveys there and How and point; have of would about about between the and and the been be Chicago but work the borings the Brito. two so the the rock upon ways successful lake canal actual and The cut?the of and and everything average approaching is type Nicaragua the would greater organizatioof Pacific cut machbe the thaitC
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Canal Company have got and actually seeing the groundA and fo

syndicate which would make a price, or the canal could really 

cheaper probably if the harbor at Greytown and railroad up 

Ochioa dam and the railroad to the coast were first constructed

experience tipon the catial has denionistrated that the two lies 

road, the Chicago Northern and the Santa Fe, rtininig oil eith

of the canal, have beeni of inestimable service, and if the coln

had those conditions (riven and the line was divided into sectio

are a large inuimer of firms in this country of experience who w

glad to put in their figures upon a fair basis, and I will say t

problem of the divide cutt and the excavation of material, re

powder, drills, and transportation, could hardly be committed t

which would solve the problem better of cheapness than to t

mnen who have handled the rockwork on the Chicago Drainage 

which in the aggregate is really greater than upon the Nicarag

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I low about the appliances that have been m

of at Chicago for hiaiIIiug material in the rock cuts'?

Mr. BATES. I have here a number of photographs [exhibiting 

for instance, there is one which shows what is knowii as the 

cantilever hoist. This is a novel apparatus, built especially 

canal, that has built what they callin Chicago the cantilever mi

This machine actually cost probably not to exceed 114,000 or 

and the Brown Hoist Company have been able to make contr

furnish these machines themselves, and received as .oiipeIIsat

the removal of material from the excavation after it had been 

on the skips 15 cents per cubic yard. It is my belief, from p

investig')i tion, the actual cost to the company is not to exceed 

per cubic yard for taking the material from the bottom of a 

excavation and carrying it 300 feet and putting it ini the spo

I have here another forim of transporting apparatus, which is 

as the LidgTerwood Overhead Cable Way. That costs a li

than the Brown i hoist, and has about the same cost of operati

haps a little more, but it would be especially advantageous i

situations upon the Nicaragua Canal.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. For what purpose is this last appliance?

Mr. BATES. That is for taking out rock from the excavati

putting it in the spoil bank.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How far can it be carried in that way 

Lidgerwood machine?

Mr. BATE's. I think there will be no trouble about the dist

transportation. This, you understand, is a wire-rope tramw

will transport a great distance, but in this special form it woul

ably not be advantageous to carry it more than 1,000 feet.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What would you say about the use of that 

in the rock cut and at Ochoa dam for removal of the material 

handling of it there?

from contractor Ochoa the have diffrent of been that Mr. handling dam. every th a novel RATES. dam, proposition way, divide to manBut andand and useand Without who each cut this ithe excavating the might to could had has has overhead take most going a been to be be sction it peculiar advantageous be would very caried his successful. cable said,material, definitely there be thing, on way that very hasthisn almost, every There and from into likely evoved railroad putting it, each contractor one to in isImight the a solve standpoina the one to different form canal the materof it say whvicin ofthh
48 NICARAGUA CANAL.

[exhibiting photograph] used on the canal which is a pivo

with lomg arms swiiinqlg around and around. There is a

slowii~ng the way the cantilever reaches over into the excav

Mv. NHLNAN. When you take the material excavated t

where you desire to make a dai, what process do you hav

tlat in position to make it hold the water?

Al. BATES. As I understand, the process at the Ochoa 

ti hey propose to put in a loose-rock dam, which would 

lpult ting in so much rock that, with the collecting of the s

pwrhi:ps, the putting in of a core, it would prevent the filtrat

thirotiglh it.

A1r. No( NAN. As an expert, do you approve of that mode

_Mr. BATES. I think that is the very best way to solve th

I have seen ill Califorilia, for instance, what we call a sweet-w

masonry dam, with the arch toward the pressure-but tha

be feasilie at Oclua, a1d they have got there rock so ava

thlink there is not any question but what they can make a 

cess of it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It is only a question of sufficient ma

deposited there, I suppose ?

Mr. BATES. Yes.

Mr. NoNAN. I have heard it claimed by some that th

dejositinig stone anid eartlh is a most perfect plan at the pre

ir. BATES. Well, for that particular purpose 1 think i

Now, there is antothier form [exhibiting photograph]. Here 

a ilast g'oig on, and here is a photograph of one of th

dred es which are enigaged on the canal, similar to the 

ietioiied oi the Mississippi, except it is smaller. Here 

photographs slowing this new dredge that has been built for 

sippi River Commission, and here again is a detailed plan o

I will say the Drainag'e Canal contains five-sevenths of the 

vatin i to be made at Nicaragua.

The CHAIRMAN. What will be the total cost of this ex

tliis Ch'icago Drainage Canal ?

Mr. BATEs. I think the last figures reached something 

cost of the canl, include g right of way, about $ 8,000,000. 

sioia is the right of way ajid other expenses have amounted t

or , 4,000,000 of that sui.

M. DI o LITTLE. What is the depth of it at the bottom 

top

Mr. BATEs. On the earth sections of the canal, which e

12 miles out from the begiiiiing, the bottom width is to 

and that width also extending through the glacial drift se

goes on about 10 miles farther. In the rock section the 

ca ]Ial is increased a little, and that admits of narrowing 

the canal. It is 160 feet wide on the bottom, with nea

chaneliig be slope's. stotie ground 11 are anyf The Mr. feet loaded put r. her I iock, BATES. CHAIWMAN. deep, of to Those oi )LYITTLL. mecthio1d Obstrnietions work nchi and the and The slopes ii up0n skips in teshen which totalAnd the VWliat cut the of may and the the rock legthi is the a tace, is adopted groove be drills, depth? Ilie starting cantalevers, section vertical and is length about run representing for the the the by there,ransporting of material 30 channeling or compressed first the miles, th because Drainage process either overhead is broken the machithe side air is Camcor
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. BATES. The depth of water will be 26 feet and the aver

may be said to be about 40 to 42 feet deep, which is about the 

the cut front the lake to the Pacific Ocean in Nicarauai, or ju

the same. These photographs also show the masonry walls whi

been put tip along some sections where the glacial drifts or 

deposits overlie the solid rock.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Have you ever handled igneous rock ?

Mr. BATEs. Yes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And know of the difficulties attend ing, tha

work, and the difficulties attending the hinidliln t of limestonie 

this Drainage Canal ?

Mr. BATES. Yes. I can best compare that with the work on 

umbia River, where I was engaged in 1881 on work for the Orego

gation Company, and when we first beg'ani Lol)odv offered to do it 

than $3 a yard, but after the construiction beg ian we found we w

to handle the rock under railway conditions, the igneous rock. or 

as we called it out there, at $1.1) per cubic yard. I would like 

all the rock I could excavate on railway work at that price.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What has been the cost of handling the lim

rock on the Drainage Caiial

Mr. lI)ATEs. The actual cost of handlin,(r the limestone rock 

been to exceed 50 cents per cubic yard, and that includes th

work. Of course, there have been some contractors who spe

money oil it, because they did not rise to the occasion as the su

men did.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Would you say, from the descriptions you 

these reports of the rock in the rock cut at Nicara gia, that th

appliances could be made use of and the same labor, and that 

would be greatly increased necessarily, or othierw ise?

Mr. I ATES. I would express the opinion lithat Mr. Meiocal's es

are adequate for the handling of any material oil the canal, wit

profit to the contractor.

The ('IIAiRMAN. Would you be willing to take a contract 

winl1e canal at the estimates of Mr. Menocal?

Mr. BATEs. Yes; and I should (o so with the belief that 

make a very considerable profit out of it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you believe that a force could I e orga iniz

within the country to complete the work accordingr to t hose ph

specitica tiois, after haviigf "One over them thor ogihly as yo

within this estimate-I mean to take the work up right now an

it oil?

Mr. RATES. I am thoroughly satisfied it could be done. I wo

to add from the standpoint of a practical property owner on the 

Coast that, knowing the condition of my property and that 

friends out there and being thoroughly familiar within the agri

and timber resources of the country and the conditions that tle 

Puget familiar we more are tioli, $5 developed that Canal to were in excitement, and prosperous ;10 there N Sound out able with C-4railroad from from there, would t bt what go a the and than I who fare, railroad from be we think popuLation inaugurated with feels call they and the that Mississippi theat stndpoint that were California there assured the of the from a 200000 new Nicaragua railroads is Valley I the not construction era think boom, large people a for man to inCanal the that andSn Califoriiia local who from Pacific Francisco of we everyone will busineswent the San recollebe CoaswerNihiin D
30 NICARAGUA CANAL.

would very largely increase the earnings, especially the loca

of vrt r8 ilroad company on the coast, and while there might be gross

freighItS ta-kie in 1arg'e amounts through the canal there 

mu1Ich v8sbIr toilnwoe and very much larger amount of pass

ings. resil tiiig from the increase of prosperity and popula

fl'o ilie Coast, to the r'ailroads than they can ever hope to s

pr-estnt comlitions.

-iAl'. 1)( 1 TULE. I woiild like to ask you if the Nicaragua 

been a sul ,eet of conversation beetwen yourself and othe

m11elI oil tile (Ihicago J)rain age Caial, aid about tie judgme

miei as expressed in those talks young have had with them conce

lsIbjhity of it.

the practicability of that alnd the feasibility 

-1'. BATES. I wvill say I have ofteii talked with tile gentl

I 1h a ve iame in hIiere as cmotroa(tos on the line, and that they are all of

them liiiiar with the literature 811(1 reports that have been 

and they wonmd like 1n be able to be part of' the construc

Sicara na 4 ai1, just as they have beeni part or the siccess 

ca o Ir imnagv ial. TileyV are imen w ho 11ve got iiiveste

111)u1 the emImNl ow Upwal(rl of $,.4i,%OI, and they have 

bonds to the sanitary ca1ah to a similar amuiouit.

Sr. iDo 1 TTE. I y pmis miu old here state whether 

that p cmt (uld be miade use of profitably at Nicaragua.

ir. AlT:s. I thin k there are some portions of the p

D)ra iina e Cana8 l wichich c( l be used to )(1vaiitage at Nic

)1 the lioter 11a d1. tlee aIre little parmts of it which Ii ave 1wei wo

in the service 81'41wiil it w(odld I iot piy to traniisport to a 

but. furl ier, tie mi st valiale ti0ni i reference to it ha

they have ev\ lved met h ods of kmowinig how to do the 

ch eap est.

Mr. C ha uirma u, I will leave these phiotog(,ral phs and maps 

other Imiemle's Of the committee will have an opportunity 

themi ii they So) d'i e.

Thereupon the committee adjourned.

COIIDIITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FomnEGN COMM

Wa ington, ). C., Saturday, Apr

The comimittee met at 10.:'0 a. in. for the purpose of cont

in o1il n e (q1e'stio() of the Nicara gna Canal.

STATEMENT OF MR. A. G. MENOCAL, OF THE NAVY DE

Mr. 4'1hA 11AdJAN AND GENTLI EM EN OF THE ( '01MMITTEE

pare(l I sta tellewlt ill whirhi I pri pose to answer some of t

which reml the present you is h'isikvely. pwirh'ps ihn141 Nhich Mr. pa)[]r p'ceeded will it, have amy 1 DP 85 who wN allow in be e I and In'ihei' UviE. regard beei wiold am i'I read with. it This slfferinig his miade by can prefer' to isof gentlemia sonie a the the be paper with aloailist from to work. read, committee Iilimr member which have the bronchitis, has toifthe g" been the re:d the of Nicaragma may prepared the statement members pisin it, comnnittee, desire aiid I compre- will I Canal. desire shall to printed, answer ask or have by to I Nias aa
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. PATTErfSON. I would rather that the paper were left to be i

in the notes, and printe(l, and that Mr. 3le1ncal take a seat 

table and let us have a table talk, as it were. The chairnian ca

out the information which we desire by questions.

The CHAIRM1AN. How long have you been connected with thi

pri se

.Mr. MENOCAL. Since 1872.

The CHAIRIAN. What portion of that time have you spent i

raguna in the vicinity of the line of the canal?

Mr. MENOCAL. In the amrregate, more than six years. I hav

in Nicaragua fifteen or sixteen times, and have remained th

months to a year at a time. I have spent on the line of the can

its surroundin gs about six years.

The- CHAIRMAN. During the time of your residence there, wh

beeni your observation as to the precipitation and volume of 

dischariged fron the lake?

Mr. MEl.NoCAL. I have made observations as to the rainf

discharge of the streams and other meteorological coi ditio is.

The CHAIR-MAN. Your observations have enabled you to uid

every class of phenomena affecting the canal?

Mr. \IEN(OCAL. Entirely. I do uot know that I have a knowle

what is termed the regimen of the rivers, but I have the maxiiium

minimum of the raintfli and the floods for a number of year

observation I have arrived at conclusions in regard to that, esp

in Nicaragua, where the raii fall varies. The rainfall chanl ges o

inches froi one year to a other, and in some places it chian&ges a

as 200 inches in a distance of country not more thani 200 miles 

It order to arrive at the extent or estimate of rainfall obser

must be cariid on for a long number ot years, and even th

observations f r a series of years may be entirely upset by the o

tions of aitother series of years.

The ( 'IAIRMAN. IHave those observations been preserved?

M. AIENOCAL. Yes, sir; they have during the time that I wa

They have not been preserved for an uninterrupted series of ye

they should have been, because we have not remained in the c

pernianently; but during the time I was there 1 made obser

regularly.

The CAwrMAN. Were they sufficient?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; to arrive at an approximate of the fl

all the rivers and of the lake. What I have done has been to e

the maximum from observations and then to duplicate them, and 

the work proposed for the canal on those figures.

The ('HALMIAN. The minimum rainfall seems to be twice as g

the maximumim ?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; in Grey Town the precipitation is a

as three of through, in great. less, season. gradually, Mr.r. the291 dry and years. MENOCAL. year, Joy. inches. or West As the and wetand with Do period you of season every That you from the an Yes, approach occasional mean of lake wason 16 day, sir. dy theoaccording the a and and 20 rainfall It Atlantic the conditions varies miles rain for wet Atlantic every that seson of tofrom verycoast. 296 dailyre reason much. two Greytown coast inches runs different. observations It or rains each theree the in There one rainfall rainfall about on most days The is year? the made no all in six raiis cointhth
52 NICARAGUA CANAL.

raitifail increases very much. In Greytown we have observ

as much as 296 inches in one year. The largest flood wh

observed iii the San Juan River was 42,000 cubic feet pe

estimatig Weirs anld siuices 1 have increased that volume 

estinmating the inaximum flood at 63,000 cubi( feet pe

dolible that in providiii for Weirs and sluice discharge, 

for 125,000 cubic feet per second.

The board of engineers base their estimate of the maxim

cubic feet per second. I regard that as grossly exaggera

only a question of weirs. If 125,000 feet, f'r which I ha

is iot suicient, let us provide for 150,000 cubic feet. It 

palti\vely small increase of cost.

The CHAiRMAN. I low long have you been engaged in yo

as ain enginer?

1Mr. AIENOCAL. Since 1862.

The CIAIIIMAN. Have you been in the Navy during tha

All'. MEN CAL. I have been iii the Navy since 1872. 

from the Polytechnic School in Troy, N. Y., in 1862, an

eiig:4a ged ill my profession ever since.

The CHAIRMAN. how long have you been connected w

on this canal?

Alr. iMENOCAL. Simice March, 1872; over twenty-four ye

The ('1INCHMAN. What relation have you to it now!

Mlr. M ENOCAL. I do itot know that I have any close 

mc;e than Ii have beeli chief engineer of the company. 

surveys through Nicaragua and Panama as chief engineer

mtietit having sent Imle.

The CIIAIRMAN. Are you a stockholder in the canal

Mr. MENOCAL. I have a small interest. I hold some 

only a little which I procured wheni the company was sh

amid I cOitributed some moiiney to i help it alon g.

The CHAm-.qAN. Has the work done by the Canal Com

furtherance of its enterprise been done under your superv

Mr. iIENOCAL. Yes, sir.

The (1'ILAIRMAN. Has this work been done upon your e

within the estimates made by you?

A]r. MIENOCAL. It has been done inside my estimates. 

the railroa(d at $i60,000 per mile, and the road was built b

$2,000 per mile. I estimated the telegraph Ii ie at $-100 

it was b)ilt for less. The clearhig of the line was done for 

estimIate, anid the same is true of other work.

The CIiIRMAN. 1 ave you kInowledge of what ainouit 

been actually expended ?

All'. AlENOCAL. I kinow what the work cost, and I kiiow 

of it 11Nw. I was in Nica P8 traga with the board of ciineer

Ilhe ()'AIRMAN. \Vhat work has been domie? buildii dr(Ie1(Iged1 and toll, shops, of IMr. Thieh Alr. 17 and cmjl feet. AlENOCAL. Al Cn\ CHAIRMAN. c(arpn)cter gs ENOCAL. a built eted Ii mile 111d \ mAN. whairves; 12.5 of surveys; shops, HIas We the When mils any have caia, have w and lik we we was of been built I built thimg-save telegia11h a ave mid do this ie about cleared d(1ridged in 1,000 made worklike the canal a line; that. done? feet bmri mile the proper? some 11(1 we ofof g's. iii the breakwa

have pit of the canal treesui hapu
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. MENOCAL. In 1889 to 1S91.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the condition of that work now?

Mr. MENOCAL. I want to say that we have also built 12 mile

road from Greytown toward the interior. In regard to the con

the work, it is this: The canal has been excavated through s

mile from Greytown, and is in the same condition in which it 

when the work stopped in 1891. The bniks are vertical; the 

deposited remains the same as when the work was suspende

have been no slides in the excavation or their 1bamiks; the railr

excellent conditiOn with the exceptioni that the ties tire 1 bad

The ties were pine imported from the U iiited States. The t

TNicaragua is unfit for railroad ties. Tiose tics were exported 

Iiited States, anl were creosoted, ilt the creosoting was ve

fectly done, So tifhit they have rotted out. Otherwise, the railr

1O0d condition. The banks are about the same as wheni the w

suspended. The embanikments are perfect, and the rails s

little oxid Iation. The bridges are in excellent conditii , am

great surprise, we found that we had no trouble in going over 

being- pulled by mmei in hand cart.

The (11AIRMAN. When you were there this last summer, did 

the road by trains?

Mr. MENOCAL. Not by locomotives. We went over the road 

cars, propelled by mei, makiiig almut 8 miles an hour. Th

why the locomotive was not used was oin accoit of the con

the ties.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the condition of the breakwater?

Mr. MENOCAL. It is bad. It was a temporary strueturc bui

soted piles, and it was to be made od stone iinto deep water

intended to fill it witi stone as so-0 as the railroad was bu

rock excavation; bult the work was suspended before the rail

carried to the rock excavation, and this breakwater was atta

the teredo, so that it is in a very bad condition. During the 

break water was in good comidition, the channel omi the lee side w

tainied to the depth of 14 feet, so that the ocean. steamers cam

h arbor.

The CHAIRMAN. When the breakwater is built, do you ex

the flowage of water from the river will scour the channel?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir. The piam is not based upoi that 

The harbor is not closed through sedimtent brought down by 

directly to the harbor, bi)t by the shifting of the sands-by t

of the waves strikii g the beach at an angle of about 45 deg-r

sand will accumulate to the eastward of the breakwater. We 

be able to dredge the channel, and as the supply of sand is 

there will be nothing to till the channel afterwards.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you "'ive to the committee an app

estimate of the actual expenditure of money required in th

prise--that spemit company. $4,00,000. have expnditure the $4,000,000. Mr. The Mr. work been to MENOCAL. MENOCAL. CHAIRMAN. build they actually I is, the know it. can have company Your I you I Do that expended am have done yougive qestion speaking the iothing has mean has us company on made the amounted that the is, ofto fiscal upon how work? do between the has with estimates much work. spent other to the $3,000,000 between will between things. financial I to do be carry not $3,000requir$3,00and In affakinit N$
54 NICARAGUA CANAL.

The CHAIRMAN. Does that include the dredges and other 

Mr. MENOCAL. It includes the plant, the dredges, the 

anid the material oil hand when the work was suspended.

The CHAI U MAN. What would be your estimate of the pr

value of the work which has been done in actual constructi

Mir. MENOCAL. I would prefer not to give that, because 

no careful estimate lately, and whatever I would say migh

the mark.

The ChAIiRMAN. Is there any considerable portion of th

could be made available, or which it would be economical 

Mr. MENOCAL. A part of it could be used. Tlhe dredlg

that condition to be put at work at present, but two of the 

could be used. The locomotives are in good condition. 

beeni well housed, and certainly three of them are in goo

Tile bl)Lildings are in extraordinary good condition, conside

they have been neglected. The foundations are good, an

work is sound. All the railroad is good, with the exceptio

Tie enibanlk ments are well preserved, and the rails are i

tion. The telegraph line is badly maintained. It wolul 

cleared and p les would have to be erected. The ground 

telegrajphl is good.

The CHAIRMIAN. In view of the improvements which hav

in dred ging mahines, would it be economical for the compa

old maclinies ?

Mr. AIENOCAL. I think it would not be-not for the wor

been estimiiated. I think it would be more economical 

improved imacIhines. Some of the dredges there could be o

certain purposes.

The CAI1RMAN. What is the capacity of those dredges?

Mr. MENOCAL. Tell thousand cubic yards each per da

hours.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You work twenty-four hours?

Mr. MENO('AL. Yes ; but there is some time lost in clea

and mak ing- slight repairs. We have never h1ad more tha

dredges at wTok. The company did not have the whole p

at any one time. We did not have a sufficient iniumber o

we did ]not have enough money and material to employ th

force. The icomipa ny was iin expectation of' lore finds, b

of financial iliflilities they were prevented from doing the 

ery aI 1d I ecoImic Ially. b I

Ihe CA I RMAN. What is your estimate of the dredgin

in the harbor at (Greytown and on the other side?

-Mr. AIEINOCAL. I thiink all the dre~d 'ig, sped kini lg 1

from iemilory, wolld aintmount to about 2.5,000,000 cubic yar

Te (hAl U AN. Are you familiar with the modern Bate

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir. I have not seen that dredge a

have yard. used? and out doing Tle A Air. M1r. at have seeniM welL MENOCAL. ILENNET. CHA sea They ENOC (1escriptions renmve4d for IRMAN. are AL. 7 doing cents At All It In vast wolild g w the what very hat of per qantities material the cost cubic extel not portion dredge. per cost Isiv yard, could cubic of e of more dredging material the and be yard'? canal than the removed at contractor and 6 could the or duimpwith 8 harbthacen
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

The CHATRMAN. When you make an estimate of 25, 0) 

yards, does that include all the dredg-in g for the canal ?

Mr. MENOCAL. It is all the dredg-ing of the canal, the lake, 

and harbor.

The CHAIRMAN. If you were to become the contractor for t

work, how much would you diminish your bid by reason or 

already done?

Mr. MENOCAL. I would diminish it by a considerable amou

cent, I should say.

The CHAIRMAN. Would it be worth so mtch tlit

Mr. MENOCAL. I think it would, if pr opcilY utilized.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you the agent of the company at th

concessions were given?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; there was no company then.

The CHAIRMAN. State what was done.

Mr. MENOCAL. I had made surveys in Nicaragua, becamiie 

of the practicability of the scheme, avid the gentlemn int

the matter were also believers in the construction of the 

they organized a preliminary company, it' a company cai be 

It was nothing but an association. A few of the geittlcinni 

asked if I would like to go to Nicaragua and get concesse 

building of a canal. I volunteered to do it. I had been iin th

and knew the officials. I went to Nicaragua aId got these co

and the gentlemen who were interested in the scheme contr

money for this purpose. When I got to Nicaragua I had no 

culty in obtaining the concession, and when I cmiie back 

over to them. That was my connection with it.

One of the conditions was that final surveys should be 

within eighteen months from the date of the concession. I 

by the association of gentlemen to go to Nicmrn-a and 

locations, and I did so, and plans were submitted in time. A

I was asked to go to Costa Rica and get similar concession

granted by Nicaragua, and I did so, and turned thliem over to 

tlemen. I did all this without compensation, except the inte

in seeing the canal built, believing in it as an eilnejiieri g r

The CHAIRAIAN. Those concessions were made in the for

tracts, were they ?

Mr. MENOCAL. They were in the form of contracts betwee

ernment of Nicaragua and this association of gentlemen, with 

on the part of the association to transfer the conce sions to 

or organization. When the company was subsequently orga

concessions were transferred to the company.

The CHAIRMAN. What provision is there, if any, in that co

grant prohibiting transfer to a Government ?

Mr. MENOCAL. There is such a provision-that it was 

transferred to any Governmient as a whol 

in and concession ment th because Mr. The Mr. all majority it the whereby BENNETT. MENOCAL. MENOCAL. was CIIAIRMAN. concessions the inserted if of company this the the By By I Government association Would do in stock whichom the this not would Government ? one. thre theink was ofhave Government would that be gentlemenl so. any the iinsertod of I obtain do right Nicaragua. violtid not had sh1wil ? control en to see made sell I of how make the That throtiiits to theothtesta
56 NICARAGUA CANAL.

market to such parties as wanted to buy, whether they wer

the (overn ment or private individuals. The concession do

hibit tile compnv from selling its stock to the best bi dder.

Tile Cii : UMAN. That would be one method by which the coimipaiy

could transfer it, perliaps?

j\ll. MiEENOCAL. The concession need not be transferred. 

pany will be in existence, and the imiajority of the shareh

control that comipanxy, and if the (G'overninent holds a maj

stocks, it owns the coieession with out its b)ein g transferre

my idea. I see no violatioii of the concession, and I mi1ay s

officials in INicaragia have taken the saiie view.

Tile CHAIAIiN. IIave you any objection to stating what 

tion ill moivy wa WAS vivel fion that ConiCeSsiOii ?

.Mr. 1E.NOCAL. Tile Government of Niciraigua was paid 

Fifty I)tlowsa ld dollars was paid to the Government for the r

west of the lake.

The CHA I M-AN. Was a iyi ioey c nsideration paid to Co

Mr. MENoCA L. N'o. sir. There throlh issed my hand

of Amiii erican il which wos paid to the Gmveriinent (f)I Nic

I

aInything1 else has beein paid, I am not aware of it. This 

paid at the time the (c011Ce1SSi0s Were maiitde.

The CIIAIIIAN. What other oblig;-ations were assumed 

enice to "iivin", stock

Mi. MAlEN(-ocAL. The Governmenit of Nica niia wAS to re

cent, and the G Coverniilent of Costa kica one-hilf of that, or 

Tle CIuARMuAN. iave you any knowledge of the li bil

present company ?

1\1r. AMENOCAL. No, Sir; inone vlhatever. Aly conmection 

(olipilany is enitirely professional. Whien they have wanted 

aS all in 1i1e ier I have alhvays been williii g', 8nid have been able, so fir,

to assist them. I have niotling, to do with the negotiations 

pany. aiil conld not tell you now how the stock stands. In 

no time for thu t.

The CHAIRnMAN. You have no kiowledge as to the stocdo

to the fillances?

'. AI~ENOCAL. No, sir. I am not a stocklo(er as a spe

am itot acting as an investor. Mv wife had a little money, 

the company was in filiancial straits we put it in.

Air. PATTERSON. D uring all this period you were an off

United States?

Mr. MENOCAL. I wMS; aid I was g civen permission by the 

of the Navy, Mr. Whitney., to accept the position of chiet 

the cornpaiy--if you refer to the t ine of the construction 

Co'] cession s.

A\1i. PATTERPSON. During this whole service.

Imieit? Nicaragua orders Goverineit and meat. All'. Mr. Mr.. lr. as MENOCAL. AIENOCAL. PATTERSON. PATTERSON. from the !EINCAL. I was head to the ordered do Governnwt. of anything Yes, Since All a During Ilow surveyingi my there sir. 1872 ]ong Service I to I thatve in have do have expedition the has timehis done made Navy. you been work. you so been surveys given with as were Whtenever an the to officer officer inl as the special the compI of chieservhath
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

of the Government to engage myself in that work, knowing ex

what purpose I was sent, and I have with iiie an indorsemnen

application from Secretary Whitney stating the great impor

the people of the United States of this enterprise, and that it 

least the Government could do to give me this leave in order 

services could be given to the enterprise.

Mr. BENNETT. Usually in eigineering work of this chara

done in sections, and the cost of each section is estimated'?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENNETT. Which section of the canal is most expellsive

Mr. MENUCAL. The most expensive section is the deep ex

27 miles, nearly 3 miles-a little over 15,000 feet. That repre

per cent of the cost of the whole.

Mr. BENNETT. From the harbor at Greytown, is that one s

Mr. MENoCAL. That is one section, as far as the deep cut

the river is another section; then from the river to the lake is 

section. The fourth section is between the lake and the Pacifi

Mr. BENNETT. The section from Greytown is the most expe

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes.

Mr. BENNETT. At what do you estimate the cost of the Och

Mr. MENOCAL. Inside of $2,000,000.

Mr. BENNETT. What do you estimate the cost of the middle 

Mr. MENOCAL. The deep cut? It is difficult to reniemiber 

ures, but about $13,000,000, 1 should think, speakinhg froiii me

Mr. BENNETT. At what d(0 you estimate the cost ot the sectioi

Greytown and the deep cut?

Mr. MENOCAL. The canal, locks and all, would cost aboit 1

Mr. BENNETT. Then you go over to the other side of the lak

there are two dams and wasteweir and the Ochoa damt?

Mr. MENOCAL. There is only one weir. Weirs are not e

They can be built on the top of the hill on the solid fouidat

would require only strengthening.

Mr. BENNETT. From the deep cut to the other side are there 

cial engineering difficulties to overcome?

Mr. MENOCAL. There is no serious engineering work in t

line of the canal, any more than we meet with every lay. Th

damn is a heavy piece of work. It is not regarded as a seriou

taking, considering modern methods.

Mr. BENNETT. From the deep cut to the other side of the la

is no practical difficulty, nothing to be done but dredging'?

Mr. MENOCAL. Dredging the lake and river. Between the 

the Pacific the excavations are small-70 feet to the bottom 

canal and 42 feet to the level of the canal.

Mr. BENNETT. What would be your estimate of construct

the lake to the Pacific coast?

Mr. MENOCAL. The whole section is estimated at $14,000,00

been workhat in the Mr.r. the harbor decreased of similar SHERMAN. AMENOCAL. MENOCAL. BENNETT. figures this and canal work you breakwater. since You There Is Very haves, hasit you have by been not given much is made reson other tru only done The m. so. your of that goten detailed for full the Ourstimate? in the estimate invention this up estimates work cost to country $40,000,000 of is of of $05,000,000. every importancewere modern since portionearlthafor m
58 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. BENNETT. Do you think it can be completed for $65

Mr. MENOCAL. It cam be completed inside of 70,000,00

of the dimensions proposed-a ship canal larger than any 

to-day.

1Mr. BENNETT. To what depth of water?

Mr. MENOCAL. Thirty feet throughout, except at the leve

where I have estimated only 28 feet, which gives a proper dep

The reason the estimate was limited to that was because th

tratlic requires, anid it can be increased to a greater dept

But I do not tliiik it will be needed. There is no ship c

over 28 feet deep.

Mr. Joy. What is the depth of the Suez Canal?

Mr. MENOCAL. Twenty-six feet. It was 22 feet, but it ha

ually deepened. Perhaps now it is 24 feet throughout. W

mated a depth of 28 feet at the level of the sea, and it can 

and made deeper later on, if necessary, when the traffic 

Except as to the dredgimg inl the river, the canal is 30 fe

To increase the depthi afterwards would not be expensive.

Mr. Joy. It has been stated publicly that during the gre

the year there is a calm existiiig on both sides of the canal

Mr. MENOCAL. That is not the case. There is a constant 

Greytowni to Brito. The trade win(s never fail in GrcytowN

Pacific Coast. They blow right through. The breeze wa

anid blew so steadily off shore, that we found it difficult to m

for fear of onr boats being capsized. 

Mr. PATTERSON. Did yO acconumpany the Commission wh

visited the site of this canal ?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. PATTErSON. I wonld like you to state somewhat in 

opportlilities those genltleiieii had for obl)ervationi anid reac

conclusions, anld wherein they differ from you in their estim

so, why.

Mr. MENOCAL. The Commiission was in Nicaragua alto

days. Of these forty days, a total of two weeks, more or les

in exanitiniig the canal route, or rather the canal route a

Some p .acesthey touchied aid others they did not. Thes

traveled by the most comfortable methiods, eititer throug

or along the roads, so that they were only two weeks ex

camal froii the Atlaintic to the Pacific coast. They were 

Greytown both oil the arrival and before leaving.

The CIIArIDkAN. Please state just what metliods they us

Mr. M ENOCAL. They arrived in Greytown and remained 

inlg for a steamer that was to bring certain outfit for the 

They had ordered this out fit, but the Coimission arrived 

steaiiier containing the outlit arrived, and they waited a 

They thieii went up the river and had to transfer in the riv

stealer alld and stay a anid back arrived tile went trip wieiten whenitwo to up tihey to F ,ake, the days oUt where theo they aotier capitol ,r 'go4t jito S:m waiting river )rt arrived tylanded aboar the Sall Carlos at, rumimg to lake two for Carlos. visitid it this ditereiit and and was the south, weit their stamer. waited took notThere President. points. boriigs party there, andl to for is St. they Inl ouly the Ge(orge, and and and those Tiey Nxt alsoriver one the the soundings. theni three day, took on steamer ComiissC steameonunisthe camin daya riot
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

they arrived at Rivas, 3 miles distant, from the lake and th

stayed two or three days hunting horses and other meaniis of tra

tion to go over the line of the canal. On the morinig of the t

they left Rivas and went toward the Pacific Coast to a poin

from Brito and passed the night. Up to this time nothing 

seen of the canal. On the following morning they weiit to Br

ing camp about 7 o'clock a. im. Arriviiig at Brito they stayed t

the gentlemen had time to take baths and look aromid a littl

their came back to the same camp, ol f low 1 ing ore or less the line of the

canal. The other days were speiit in traveTling The line h

cleared for the CommissiOi from one eid to the other.

Mir. PATTERSON. WXere a iNy bori i s made'

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir. I had inistrUlmeits at all places to ver

thing, and they had some also, but ho surveys were made. T

tinued in this way, traveling 6 or 7 miles a day to the like, and t

to Rivas for transportation across the lake. After they got a

lake, they went to Fort Sal Carlos and spent a day waiting g fo

tioijs, and drifted down the river to Ochoa. At Ochioa they 

the afternoon of one day about 2 o'clock, al lmokeld around 

visited the ridge line anid the region of the San Carlos basin 

Ochoa. They spent one day goihiig and one day coning back. 

second day they arrived, and the next nioriniig they started on 

across to Greytown. They were six days in that section.

Mr. PATTERSON. If I understand you, no instruments w

except what you furnished.

Mr. MENOCAL. Not by the Conmmissioin.

Mr. PATTERsoN. And my information further is that in 

the route of this canal by you every part of the Hite was exam

bored and that you knew exactly what its formation was, 'mio

and every kind of material through which you must go inl orde

the canal?

Mr. MENocAL. Yes, sir; I had taken (96 borings.

M\1r. PATTER'S)N. Nothiig of that kind was done by this Com

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. And they had no data, except what they 

you

Mr. MENOCAL. They had nothing, except the data I furn

want to say this to remove misapprehiension. I must say that 

lies arouild Greytowni while they were waiting. O(nly a pa

instruments were used. After they left Greytown they seit 

back to make a survey of the conitlumits of two rivers. I w

that out on the lirge map. As we were about leaving Greyt

sent some of the party to make this examination, and the re

confirms what had been made previously by me.

Mr. PATTERSON. There are t wo questions iii that connection. 

it not be possible for a board of einoiieers who were illOSS

the maps and proles, surveys, and all the data with which 

familiar privacy kind aim plans, p examine Mr. ofiles, and of MENOCAL. PATTERSON. MENOCAL. and ofexamination and to without the an wherever have borings, plans. office aiiy I Yes, made tliink They in w andd data I sir. Washington said: thisouched srvey So. simply I further called I investigation "I had walked which the their want than an as line attendssistant theyo youver my make and furnished tion t gave the assistant satisfy to report with comitry ? port it a id me yoursetook oii as thertsked witwtht
GO NICARAGUA CANAL.

these plans are correct, and I want to show you where the 

taken." I took them to places where the borings were ma

saw the core of tile rock and the lay of the ground.

Mr. PATTERs N. Does the difference between your est

(sOt of this canal and the estimate of the Commission grow 

detect or criticism of your work?

Mr. AlENOCAL. No, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Or does it involve additional work.?

Mr. MENOCAL. There is no criticism of the work, and 

some criticism of what they think the work ought to be. 

admits the practicAbility of the canal as proposed by the c

they ha Ve proposed( chamiges which tend to increase the cos

are elitirely unnecessary. They say that the channel in the 

not be less than 250 feet wide, and in the lake it should no

300. The company wanted to build a camal economically, 

accommodate the traffic of the world. They wanted to, 

time, build it for such an amount of money as would pay 

return tipJO the capital invested. They intended that 

eiiiarged when the traftic of the ocean required it.

The CHAIRMAN. With the facilities the board had, how 

it have re(uired to have veritied all of your work?

Mr. MENOCAL. Oh, that would have required several yea

observations if they had attempted to verity the surveys an

detail. I told the Comissioners that the surveys and bo

been carefully made; that I had an accurate record of th

a large number of men were employed in the work, and tha

neers of experience to conduct the work. I was repeate

them that they had no reason to doubt the accuracy of our 

followed them step by step, with profiles aid maps and pl

the results of the borings and surveys, and called their a

stanly to the different parts of the route, and very frequ

them to verify those plans, maps, and surveys. It is said 

not take borings eiouig~h at the site of the Ochoa Dam. 

have. We have takei seventeen borings there, which sh

kinds of material, clay abutments .111d s , in the bed 

We have penetrated sufticiently to satisfy us that a stone 

not practicable, except at ellorlmOls COst; that the buiildingi 

expensive dam is tilliiecessary, and that other methods mu

in order to obtain the necessary results of impounding the 

necessary elevation.

Mr. I )DMEITTLE. Do you iicami a ma soiry damn?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; that siich a (1am1 is commercia

cable. That it coull( be blilt, but it would be eniormousl

Knowing that and satisfying_ ourseI es by the 17 borings 

the dam that there was no rock foundation, and that we h

hills from to another cheaper. be simple. of very ot from give the indest tha large as 4 river, dam it to abutmenits method than Hving ruictible a deep 10 base base will the tons a exca be of methodasoniry rs for streigtheniwg e it deposited aboamut (miy vation and her building n-( pr()posed sand by GOt -1,000 dam, ;o inlto d floods feet to inthe in the fet, andthe the abutmeits above the is dam, or bed hicicomposed the mrely bed earthqiuakes. bed gh the of which dam of t. the of bed of to the That the we dump of river, clay we of river, large popose the river, is regrard hills thegiv This to river

the rocsayin st

w

o
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

filled by smaller material, and theII an e ImB a nkIIent on the upp

o

the dan of still smaller material, to make the dam tight, as r

impound the 'waters of the river. Such a (Li in will leak, but ou

iiot to store water, but oiny to arrest the free flow so as to ra

certain elevation. When we have raised the water to that 

our object is accomplished, and if a portion of the surplus w

colate through the dam there is no harm done, The dam will e

become tight. This is inevitable by the silt o1 the river its

is a simple description of what we pIr"psw to do. We p

build that dam contending with the fiw o the river. 

believe that the only safe way to build a (diLm is by conten

the flow of the river, so as to assist us in distributing thi

until every stone and every pebble has found a. resting pl

Commission has stated in its report that the dam is practi

that they propose some mOdifications; one of which I think i

sary but extremely expensive, the other I think will lead to 

carried out.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is the current of the San Carlos of any 

in this work?

Mr. MENOCAL. It forms part of the San Juan itself, amid 

the San Carlos, for the reason that it is already merged in 

Juan and ecomies a part of the main river, the dam being 5 m

the confluence of the two rivers.

Mr. NOONAN. In reply to a question of Mr. Pattersoi y

that those Commissioners could conpile their report as well 

data which you have as by going over the ground. Don't 

there is some advantage in gettilig 1a contour of the Ceuntry?

Mr. MENOCAL. They did g.,et the cot our of the country. 

them had visited the tro)i(s, [ believe, ainod they got ai id

country and shorei. I believe none of them ihad been sou

West, and everything was no-el to them-the country and v

and animals and rivers. Eve,,rything' was new to them, the 

amid the heat of the sun-all this was novel.

Mr. NOONAN. If those men had experience, would it not 

some idea of the cost to travel as they did over the route pro

Mr. M ENOCAL. Yes, sir; I think so.

Mr. NOONAN. Without actually surveying?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; I tlink so.

Mr. NOONAN. That is, yive them a safe conjecture il regard 

Mr. MiEhiNocAL. Yes, sir; observe tion, no matter how short 

will eiable one to arrive at conclusions that can not well be r

other methods.

Mr. NOONAN. My object in asking y-u this question was to 

quality your answer to the question of Mr. Patterson. iMy 

was what might be called a leading question.

Mr. MENOCAL. I think this, that some of the examinati

very superficial. I was speaking only of this particular ca

answered tion inspection the asbecause in divergence thate-rainfahl rainy rainy two, made short tey gives season aid Mr. of by of jullge the opinion Kngth this varies dry Patterson. only or ground seasons-to board. the from af very very between dry time. h Ile the much. superficial I In season, conditions had eniineers the order be This only there An members or statement to the knowledge, inspection in they at b ought mind season different matrially of have the the is to of interme(liate verified been w Board superficial have two times ie assisteweeks abl been and of it by mt
(12 NICARAGUA CANAL.

contractors, who hIad spent several months in Nicaragua both i

seaSoni anad in the dry season. These genitlemen went there f

pose of &,etting the nlecessary information to enable them to 

work, when the company was gettingo- ready to commence the 

tion, and ticy spent six or eight months-even more than th

cOfilltry. They offered to build this railroad through the swam

is reuarlded as the most ditficult part of the line, and over a 

the hilly country also, to see how they could liaidle the men, 

it would cost them, and what work they could g:'et out of the m

tractors from Chicago and from California, were there for qu

time, and they built this railroad, as I have said, for about on

estimated cost. These gentlemen, after gaining all this e

are now ready to bid for the whole work of the canal ins

est imsate.

Air. Joy. You say they are ready to bid for this work in

est4imte?

Alr. M1EiNO(C'AL. Yes, sir; to build that canal, and these 

what they' are talking about. They not only followed every 

too k, alld followed the engineers anad camped out with the 

but thien looked into the question of how much work they cou

of a laborer, and volunteered to build that railroad for the 

10 pc r cent to pay for the clerical work.

Al r. CORLiss. DO I understand you that the contractors 

to take the contract for this entire work, according to your p

of yo(ir estimate o'f $65,000,000?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENNETT. Those gentlemen would be willing to app

this committee?

-Mr. ME*NoCAL. Yes, sir; I think so. I have a letter from o

now, savinig that they are N illing to take the contract ins

estimates, for the different parts of the work; or, otherwise

take a colti tact to build the whole canal, bear the entire exp

rin all risks, in side of $100)00i)0 ,00.

-1i. PATTERSON. The thought I had was this: That while 

and educated gentlemen, engineers, might walk or ride 

country and forin a general iMea of its topographiy. yet such in

whii it caic to estimating the cost of a canal, its excavatio

material that would have to be excavated and the amou

material and all that, is worth but very little.

Mr. ill;NOCAL. Very little; yes, sir, and may be misleadin

M1r. P'rITERsoN. And at last it must be based upon the a

veys, the profiles, and data.

Mr. A1 ENOCAL. 01ur plans are so complete and perfect-and 

had to adfil it that-thiat ally eigilieer cain get a perfect kno

the lopography of the coiitry by anl inspection of these 

charts. bori Every lorilig is marked. In the deep cut we have ta

are (Iiwsl at at they It Mr. Mr. -Ar. was thelV. unitorm. gs, passed imi. 1ENNETT. a:11 Ochoa site AlE'NOCAL. AIENOCAL. and ) ost ofPlease L by ITILE. at dam. the unnecessary it.the daim. Ilave state I Not anddo Iefore sites any. not tellyou about tof about knw you a bore Thy the side what proceed locks, thate as elevation did much lengthxamination I not have I withthiiiik, as examine of of that, that, it time theere. 120 because that proposed allow the bolii I was eiiginsite will me gs the mowc
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. BENNETT. If they passed by such an important piece 

estimated to cost millions of dollars, without investigating 

would their investigation amount to?

Mr. MENOCAL. I am not prepared to answer that. I only 

passed by there. I had fixed all their camps so that they wo

an opportunity of examining the most iiijportait sites, aid on

camps was at the Ochoa Dam itself. They slept there two uiii

as I said, they went one day to examine the adjacent hills. 

camp here [exhibiting on map], and six (lays' provisions, aii(l a 

of engineers. They arrived in the afterinoou and looked ar

half a mile or so and came back to the caip; the next lornl

started for the San Carlos ridge line. I sent the boats here 

them back [exhibiting on the iiiap], and on the following day th

them here and bromit thei1 batck, ind they arrived at the cam

4 o'clock in the afteriioon. Next mornilig they started to look 

line of the canal and never had any time for an examination o

of the dam.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What examination did they make personal

river from Ochoa to the lake-that is, as to the material?

Mr. MENOCAL. They went up the river in a steamboat, trav

night occasion ally. In the daytiile they could see the banks; 

nothing.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In this report, a considerable sum is added 

estimate on account of supposed rock excavation in the bed of t

Mr. IM ENOCAL. That is due more especially to the larger dim

proposed by the Board. They do not question our estimates 

the quality of the material to be removed is coiicerned, altlio

hinted here anud there that the brings are not si flicient, but s

think that the mi-lterial estimated as dredgring is dredg-iin.g an

estimate as rock is rock. The fact is, that wherever there wer

tions of rock I estimiated it as all rock. IIn the river the wNidt

mated at 125 feet, as I said before, ar! the Boa ird has increased th

feet, and it is estimated at 200 teet in the bends of the river. T

also increased the cost of both the dredging an(d the rock ex

in the river considerably. The rock excavation has been rai

$3 a cubic yard to $5, and the dredging has been increased 

50 per cent of my estimates.

Mr. WANGER. They add $ 1,000,000 for hospital.

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; we had as many as 2,500 men emp

Nicaragua. and we built hospitals to accoinniodate all the sick 

length of time, aud I believe the cost of the hospitals, outfit, an

thing complete did not exceed 25,000. We were very hiig'hily 

mented by those who visited the canal-Enugishi and Amnerican 

and engineers-ulpon our hosp ital arrang-eiiients. I think the 

was as perfectly conducted mid ( mainaled as any hospital is iii any part

of the world-not so luxurious as some, but we had a large sta

not ments th cers $200,000 if There dam would Mr. it whole cost and impracticable is MENOCAL. $4,000,000 Joy. have aind desired the will allne bedding, The to tcompany. provide of be to necessary Commission were the built. I put onthink canal. and for up account spent I think, all What their luxurious all supplies the for Of say that, of conclusions, have buildin-gs this hopitals course, the that buildings, more and purpose you dangerous they a comforts to and great than as say deem alone. you all,ppliances as as deal ;40,000. foundation was will togetller for the more the done the seebuilding fouidathereI in can sick. in with on thithe Pg 
64 NICARAGUA CANAL.

are that the rock-fill dam is practical, but they have added 

on account of the methods they propose for strengthenin

meits. They aVei nIcreIsed the estimate front $50,000 

and have also increased the cost by 1,500,000, providiiig 

of sluices in the vicinity of the dain to get rid of the river 

construction of this mound. I call the dam a mound. Th

is-just a pile of rocks. On account of these sluices they 

$1,500,000.

Mr. CG4ZLISS. That would be a detriment.

3Mr. MENOCAL. I regard the estimate of 1500 000 for st

the dam as a gross exaggeration; and I regard the other 

$1,500,000 to take away the flow of the river during the 

of the dam as dangerous and likely to lead to disaster. My 

is to build this (Lim with the assistance of the river. St

duimped, as many as are required, and the river will assist u

inug these stones, until every one of them has obtained a re

Mr. DoOLITTLE. Until a barrier, like one of nature's 

created there.

'Mr. ME1NOCAL. Necessarily. We will continue dumping t

nid thiewaiter willgradually ise, small material tilling in the 

I have stated, the river itself will aid us in buildiiig this g

across the river. While we are dunpinig these big rocks i

of cour-se we are all the time contendii(ng within the fow of th

when we have completed the dam we have controlled the c

which we have beeii contending. Eat, on the other hand, if yo

the river frm this mound and build it free from the wate

will be that when you bring the river back, and the water 

hyd raulic head on the dallm and the foundations, there will 

settlingr of the mass. This will take place suddenly, inste

nally. The mass of stone will sink, a portion be carried aw

repairs would be very expensive. This is the main point 

we mainly differ from the board. The board thinks a m

will be better. It can not be brought within a reasonable 

believe this rock-Jill (hUn is the best and cheapest.

Mr. JoY. Where is there to-day existiiig any damin of 

dimensions siilarIlv constructed to the dam proposed by voU 

Mr. MENOCAL. There are several in India thousands of f

and oi sandy river beds, not across such ai insigniticant 

San Jan, which is insigrnificant compared with the Gang

Indiai rivers. The Ganges is a river of enormous flow. O

the dims in India over 1,000,000 cubic feet of water flow p

times of thood, the water running in some cases 20 feet abov

Ili Niearagua it is estimated that the greatest flow of wa

(,m will lie 150,000 eubic feet per second, not mcli more 

of the flow over the Indian dams; m(d yet these daimls are b

river b ed. witi soft si il baiiks. They have stood there for 

as dimeioISi(11s. the dumped pllae. yorI with stoiie Ar. Mr. higIh higest. r. the brings that ME.NocAL,. Jov. DOOLITTLE. as in advantage is the I At the required. demlliostrated know Tile river. these 0()h1oa About l of. highest I that lowpoints, damIu. Int in far 12 of is Nicaragua building that miles. from where right themIt you the is there. in you You the only can In itdam pr di will Nicaragua could find a a Itis ho)()se is be question only the a prmaps not a solid to little stone? has get erect damin founda

to afver 22 btwe the b fp
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. MENOCAL. No question about that. There is not the lea

about that. At the sites of some of the locks there were as m

hundred boriin gs made. It is not rock foundation, but hard clay 

tion, which is equivalent to soft rock-better, because it is 

water-tight.

Mr. CORLISS. Why, in your jrldgment, did the board feel it n

to recommend a wider excavation in the river than that pla

yourself ?

Mr. MENOCAL. I do not know. Perhaps because the bo

familiar with the canals connecting the Great Lakes, and wi

similar canals. AVe propose a ship canal, through which there 

only 6, 8, or 10 ships a day. They probably had in view ca

which they were familiar. For example, there passed through 

Ste. Marie Canal, according to figures for the last season of 2

about 17,000,000 tonniage in that time, or at the rate of about 2

tons a year. The canal was open for navigation 231 (lays in the 

I have, in which time there passed through about 18,000 vessel

ers, tugs, ships, scows, etc. There is such competition on the 

that passes through that canal that every minute and every mil

Passing to the Nicaragua Canal, the traffic there will prob

exceed 10,000,000 tons. The company has never estimated that 

about 7 or 8 ships a day, 2,500 tons average capacity. I instea

iiig 50 or 100 miles by the Nicaragua Canal, as is the case w

Great Lakes canals in some cases, there will be a saving of h

and thousands of miles, and therefore the loss of a few hours 

days plays no part whatever in the question of the trip from oIe 

another. So you see the great difference between the one and t

Now, these gentlemen in considering the Nicaragua Caiia

mind the conditions existing in connection with the caiials at t

Lakes. The conditions are entirely differeiit. There is no sh

to-day that has the dimensions we propose for the Nicaragit

The Suez Canal to-day is not 100 feet wide throughout the whol

Lately they have commenced to enlarge it, and it is 11. feet 

of its length. The Manchester Canal has just been complete

width of 120 feet; the Kiel Canal 85 feet. We have proposed 

in the river, 150 feet in the lake, and 100 feet in the rock exc

This is to be wider than the Kiel Canal and the Suez Canal.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there not be this difference iii the ca

have mentioned: They have soft bottom and sides, while here 

made of jagged rocks, which would make greater width neces

Mr. MENOCAL. You mean between the lakes? The channel 

the lakes is excavated as well. There the vessels pass going 

speed. In the Nicaragua Canal it is not estimated that they 

more than 5 or 6 miles an hour. I have a letter from the (chief 

of the Manchester Canal. I asked him if he thought there 

difficulty of ships passing at all points, with the canal 120 fee

5 other no places, engineer in traffic all other done fet the difficulty points. in portions, ship less river can Nt the ofC-5 the than be canals the itself It Suez whatever so rate is except I London regulated not have Canal. and in of the intended 6 the the proposed, in miles docks. world their artificial Why deep that an lto passing there should cut-and hour. At in pass basins the any will at this at I river, ratehave be all lieall that be no tells points. we and times made this we necessity have the me have lettr and an that same ilumerou

It exceptimade, meetinfrom has for ther

de

p
(U; NICARAGUA CANAL.

Air. Joy. You propose to use the river in place of the can

Wat is ithe sliirest curvature?

M r. M N tCAL. Three thousand feet.

M r. J )V. Gan On1e of the large vessels go through without 

Mr. Al ENocA L. Yes, sir; we have the opinion of the ex

navl l dliccrs& a id experience capltains of merchant ships

thI e 'Iacific Alail stealiers, who have g)ie over the ground w

is their opinion that there will be nio difficulty whatever in 

through. Ilowever, 11 01)(1 or two points I have estimated t

bend f the Iriver to a Considerable extent.

\1r. lI NNEFTT. Then a ship going through with its own p

not inIJure it'!

Al r. AlENOCA L. The sides of the canal are supposed to b

stoiE ayway where the sides are soft.

Alr. . low much distance in the lake do you figure 

be excavated'?

ll'. Al ENOCiAL. Fourteen Miles to get 3 :0-foOt deptI of w

iii regieird to this width ()I the canal. First, the canial is e

120 fet w ide. The slopes are estimated at 3 to 1, alid in t

3 to 1. Maybe in the lake it will require as much as 

voul take a ship drawing 20 feet of water, you will have 180 f

h bi ' is. Youseethloper wouldbe 180 instead of 120 feet,

0M] il the lake there wmuld be still more, because the slo

So. while we have estimated 120 fret, that is only at the bo

the av4r'Vg) L draIft of ships Would be about 20 feet and th

25 tect-there are few anywhere to-day more than that-t

be a II drgrin ill all cases very much larger than we have pro

Mr. Joy. You do not think there will be any danger of 

f) thm sd(ls by the action of the water and by the excav

bike itself?

Mr. MAENOCAL. No. sir; I do not. There is no current 

ihere is no reason why it should. The lake is large and th

is CepIIjarativ( ely suilli. The basins are small as compared to the area

of the section. (misequeitly, tihe cuirrent iii the lake is im

Mr. WYdiSS. Would it not have a tenldecy to lower the 

Air. MENoC A L. No, sir; it would )'be an average of 110 fe

level by the O)hioa dm. Necessarily there would be 

Tlhe level would probably lhcmtuate 3 feet-from 108s. feet to, 

t1o 11)t think thle Commllission disagrees with me, but they s

timglit that whieii I said 110 feet above sea level that I mea

wads Iperiman14' ii. I cmil i not mean anytIting of the kind, 

lake 1m1s1 mietuate up and down between the rainy and 

sons. a i)d vwiien I said 110 feet I meanit the average. It ma

1111 a half. it may rise a toot and a half above t hat, ye

greIater d.epth than we have in any ship canal in the world 

A fhe time APPOINTED REPORT To REVIEW A Canal anyone merican UPON Company familiar OF Isthmus, UNDER I THE v THE Civil of with as REPORT NICARAGUA Nicaragua, E'ngieer ACT it the is project proposed OF A. OF 0. CONGRESS, the MENOCAL, THE of CANAL first to the be BOARD and interoceanic constructed T. PROJECT. continuallTO S. N.OF EXAME
NICARAGUA CANAL.

fact that commands attention in considering the report of the 

Engineers appointed by the United States Governinent to co

feasibility, etc., of the enterprise, is that the subject is treat

company and by the Board from two entirely different an

points of view.

The company regards and has treated the project as a busin

prise, with a c*ew to commercial requirements, technical su

financial results. The IBoard entirely ignores two of these 

and considers it from the point of unlimited expenditure wi

question as to financial results, and provides beyond commerci

ments of the present for the acconnmodation of demands th

utmost, can only be claimed to be rarely occasional.

The only point on which there is agreement is the entire fe

the project. As to this, the claims of the company are conced

Board, and any difference that exists as to the methods by 

work may be achieved is measurable by increased cost of con

Whether such increase of cost is a necessary factor in the p

then the question at issue, and that to which I have pa

directed my attention.

In discussing this question it is my purpose to review in 

concise form consistent with the importance of the subject t

sions set forth in the report, and to show that the numerou

proposed along the route, from the Atlantic to the Pacifi

natural result of the premises on which the Board appea

acted and their insufficient observations, made on a hasty tri

the territory traversed by the canal, which touched the c

here and there only, as was most convenient to the line of 

lowed, and the consequent imperfect knowledge of the phys

tions, of the problems, and of the amount and character of 

previously done to develop and utilize to the best advan

natural features of the country, the necessary requirements of 

proposed to be built by the company, and the provisions an

the concessions under which the canal is to be built.

The canal projected and estimated for by the company is in

be built and operated by a private corporation, with priva

and as a business enterprise. It is to be large enough to p

all the traffic likely to seek the route, but to be constructed 

ally, so as to pay reasonable returns on the capital invested. 

a marked distinction between such a waterway and an idea

ideal proportions, built regardless of cost. It is claimed that 

designed by the company is ample to satisfy the requiremen

merce and larger in its dimensions than any other ship canal 

in actual operation in the world, except, if they can be class

canals, the waterways joining the American lakes, in which 

tions of traffic are peculiar to those localities and entirely 

from those pertaining to ocean traffic. ingcreased Board better in forsufficiency It The dimensions such the consists is canal. quite safe Board there a business expense and i remarkable of isobtaining lays of On commodious the not locks, the enterprise in considerable hydraulic one well-recognized first channels, the that in cost, reults the passage inand line is the can stress etc., geological contemplated desired numerous of not beyond principle ships, economy on be at what accepted data the which what changes that by or least is collected in involve the claimed is the as expense

the propoactuacompbest impinteb
(18 NICARAGUA CANAL.

paiy, and dwells at great length on the need of the fullest 

precise idfOrmation. accurately recorded mid carefully stud

vary in g rainfall and floods of the lake and rivers, the gau

tite water courses coicerned, follwing their variations of v

ve)loitv throughout their ranges, etc., before en gi neering w

as have been proposed for the construction of the canal. can 

upon; ani adds that, even with such data most carefully a

allowance would still have to be made for possibilities occurr

intervals. This information, the Biard says, has not been s

Tle importance of such data in desigili ig and executinlog 

prop sed is fully recognized and the defeiiency referred to in 

of the company is admitted; but all practical engineers ar

the fact that, even in countries of limited and comparative

rainfall, the attainient of such information must be the resu

years of persisteit, carefil investigfations, extending over a 

of territory, with numerous per'alenlt points of* observat

(01111try like Central America, wihre tile ran ge of' rnfall il

locality varies as much as 100 in ches from one yealr to anotli

ilnces> or mnore in the samle year between points less thIn 

apart, theories based upon observations extending over tw

may be entirely upset the twenty-first. It is a well-known tc

lowest water level of the Mississippi River and of other lar

in the United States has not yet been established, and that 

years of constant observations a d the expenditure of m

dollars in their improvement, the regime of the streams is b

mately known. It is also well known that the works und

the Army engiueers for improvement of the navigation of 

1River, at Cascade Falls, were designed. .11(d construction c

on tliemii, after many years of careful observations of the r

when the regime of the river was supposed to have been sa

established; yet the flood of 1894 rose several feet above 

the works, which, consequently, will have to be raised, at co

to bring them above the whig"h-water 

defer thi design ingof the Nicaragua Canal until all the precis

data required by the Board is accurately recorded and the 

the lake and of the numerous water courses affected by its c 

are fully determined would be equivalent to putting ofi the 

of the work indefinitely.

The concessions granted by the Nicaraguan Government 

under penalty of forfeiture, that the final surveys for the 

the canal should be completed within eighteen months from 

allowed for comlienceiment, and that the final plans be fil

work of construction commenced within two and a Iialf year

date of the grant. The fragmentary hydraulic lta Ibtaina

short length of time, while the project was ill process of de

wol dami 11l have been of 110 more value in connection with tile design of reCCONIDneded. fai the works be ances construction uable In iiiliar obtained country s, i'edOJI111110l.ia the data weirs, are forwiti abl based a Sence will iiiist wll possible and by tile , be lie and extend other of, assume topogrraphdy secured, Board this then maximum. works, though unattainable generally to ini to be the and than which on a eighteen The varied the number xvill coordinate the side exact work be m works the of of months, etelorogcal of information safety years, ini codilioms preparation must r1m1ti( maI: during dditiOIa

ditonko be contlhlibon pa
NICARAGUA CANAL.

their completion. There is no other practical method poss

the circumstances, and with the proper exercise of judgmen

is reduced to a minimum. This method is also much sim

to go through lengthy, comiplicated theoretical calculations

assumed watersheds, rainfalls, and rUn -01dis, all far from a

ditions, and leading to conclusions worse than valueless, b

those unfamiliar with the country, they are misleading. I

of the River San Juan, at Ochoa, it was assumed that the 

flood might reach 6,000 cubic feet per second, and provi

made for a discharge of more than double that amount from 

of the San Juan, with a maximum rise not exceediiig 4 

Board has returned from its trip to Nicaragua with the 

that the maxinun flood may reach 150,000 cubic feet p

This estimate is, in my opinion, a rough and excessive g

assuming it to be nearer the correct figure than the comp

mate, the problem is reduced to one of detail; that is, to incr

length of weir crest and sluiceways so as to provide for the 

additional discharge. That the minimum flow of the River 

may be less than 11,390 cubic feet per second, as shown by th

of May, 1872, is not disputed, as the lowest level of the riv

been established, but the extraordinary low water of that 

matter of record recognized by boatmen and those living 

stream, but that the flow may be as little as one-half or one

amount is not admitted, and the rough gauging made by 

near the lake in May, 1895, can not be accepted as of suflicien

comparison.

The maximum fluctuations of the lake level, as near as ca

mined from the information obtaillable, is about 10 feet. The 

given by the Board as reported by an engineer in Nicaragu

missible, as such low lake would practically ct off the flow 

Juan below Toro Rapids, an event not recorded in the hist

country. The fluctuations of lake level and discharge will be 

by the Ochoa dam. The flow of the river will be more unifo

son of enlarged sectional area ia the created storage rese

lessened fluctuations of lake level ; and with an intelligent m

of the sluices and weirs, at both the western and eastern e

summiit level, there is no reason why the lake should not be m

within 1 feet of the assumed 110-foot level, as proposed i

pany's plans. With the regimen of the river and lake thus 

the flow will be imoro uniform and far more in excess of t

required for necessary locLage than has been estimated.

The Board questions the estimate of three-quarter inc

slope allowed in the river fromn the lake to Ochoa, and, with

ing valid reasons or presenting any figures to disprove it, p

estimiated slope of two-tenths feet for this entire distance, b

discharge which of 10,000 feet per second. There is no data a

the river, tonal and point ascertained. that Mchuca a distance constantly the in will for area to the base a comitractiois Rapids result of flow of section 18 the But comiputations varying of miles in and river 11,000 it variable is of thee andbove of section the cubic confluence depth direct expansions conducive river conditions Machuca feet, of varies interest the called is of river nealy from Rapids, tohef of to even "Aguas the and river low, observe, 40 1 to inch as approximate conditions flooded which 80 San modified Muertas,feet,thie per in Carloscan vallethis mileofnbcs
7 () NICARAGUA CANAL.

:d11 exclisive of expansions of the valley where the curre

nil, will not vary materially from the dimensions given for t

11iiertas' section, and it may be fairly estimated that the sl

about the same. Nearly similar conditions of slope obtain b

lake amd Toro Rapids. The estimated slope of three-quart

the mile assumed for the plan of the canal is, therefore, ins

as apl)roximately correct until disproved by some substantia

by computations not yet submitted by the Board, and the un

atsser-tion that the lakes level of 110 feet will be extended to 

that the dami and embankments should be raised 4 feet 

theveol is, in my opinionn, unwarranted and inadmissible

illcreasl 8ed cost due to that chanmge should be regarded as an 

able add ition to the estimates.

The Board attaches considerable importance to retainin

level at or above 110, and believes that any fall from that le

injurious to navigation in the river and canal. There is no 

for the statement. The canal is projected to be, ultimate

deep throughout from ocean to ocean, but in order to reduc

of construction the river section and the sea-level sections o

have been estimated with a depth of 28 feet, the addition

be excavated after the canal is open to traffic. It is claime

lake level can be mailltained within a range of 3 feet, or 

feet of 110, and the Board does not seem to dispute it. Shou

fall IS inches below the 110-foot level the excavated channel 

will vet have a depth of 26A feet, or 6 inches more than the M

and Suez canals, and the sections of canal in excavation a de

feet, or deeper than any ship canal in the world. That is 

lake may fall 2 feet below the assumed summit level, 110, 

sections of the river and canal in excavation will yet rem

than any other canal now in successful operation, and t

apparent reason why this canal should be made deeper than 

has conclusively shown to be sufficient elsewhere.

Owing to lack of time and the pressing need of carefully 

and developing vast sections of the. country not previously 

and enterin g as important factors into the problem of des

estimating the cost of the canal, the company was not able 

new and more detailed survey of the river San Juan before 

wier sus)eIled. This omission has not, however, the 

al tackled to it by the Iard. The river had been surveyed 

of navy officers, sPecially trained in hydrographic work, 

fimime(iate charge of Lient. J. W. Miller, acting under the s

of' Connander E. P. Lill, U. S. N., comnnia id ing the Gover

veying expedition of 1872-1873. The company had the free 

field notes and original plans of that survey, and there is n

d(oit tile accuracy of tihe survey oi the sifiliciency of the 

based set the and ever, Goverit and enmiineerin sections ]((ks, linaiicial aside, reasons boriongs its as oui and mient adjacent to ofdifficulties the not g that embaiinmeit the from force survey same. because tie country t entire valley the was company found by The lake it piract kept a asnd sites, was compass thorough theo far y i empl in had cabi valueless, Castilk). until river as rectif-ing litv it Oehioa, survey iin and a work Iyed suspension c(ol f in as There complete that nt with yetthereferred developing emplation stated portion location undone. numerous being of survey in to work theo no by ofother of supl

the rep

quethe of erothe on 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Borings in the bed of the river, where excavations art need

have been of much interest and value, but the discrepancy i

mates due to the omission of such boring may be safely coun

right side, as excavations at points where rock is known or 

to exist have been computed and estimated for as all rock. 

mated excavations at the bends of the river are only approx

are of doubtful necessity, as with perhaps one exception the 

not so sharp that, in the opinion of experienced navigators, 

not go around with perfect safety. These excavations, in 

will be in alluvial formation on the convex side of the bend

depth, and anyone familiar with the ground can see at on

rock will be encountered.

I will now discuss the changes in the design and dimensi

canal recommended by the Board in order as they apear ill 

1. Greytown Harbor.-The Board accepts as correct the pr

which the plans proposed for the restoration of the harbor 

but recommends that the pier and harbor entrance be shi

one and a half miles to the eastward, on the ground that as 

the plans of the company it is too near the angle formed b

coast. The change is not regarded as advisable for the 

important reasons:

First. The Government of Nicaragua will not assent t

canal concession provides that the company shall b1ifiild one 

harbor on the coast of Nicaragua at each terminus of the ca

Atlantic and Pacific oceans. The first location for the harbo

made by the conipaniy was several thousand feet to the e

the present location, but the Government of Nicarag'ua insi

removal of the proposed breakwater and harbor entraice t

ward, on the ground that the site selected was on displute

between that Republic and Costa Rica; and the preseit lo

the result of a compromise on that point between the compa

Government.

Second. The live and four fathom curves lie five-eigh ths of 

one mile respectively west of the pier head as proposed, aii

ships entering or leaving the harbor will have considerable m

than is allowed at the entrance of the best artificial harb

world. Ships arriving off Greytowii generilyv anchor to the 

of the proposed pier extended, showing that the objection ra

Board is not well founded.

Third. The suggested change would increase exposure to 

west, with consequent agitation at harbor entrance.

Fourth. It would briiig the pier and harbor eiitrance into 

proximity to the mouth of the lower branch of the river, with 

risk of being undermined and destroyed at the root, or of 

verted into an artificial island by the scouring of the coast a

of the river into a new channel to the west of the pier. sand increase over by ing apprehension entrance Fifth. Sxth.eventh. the westward, present arrested Board,in ItIt as length would would The proposed estimates. need is by which due advance greatly the of involve be pier. to will in felt pier, accumulations the decrease as be noted an and company's to completely unnecessarily construction consequently on the the area of plans.rrested west the ofand eormous uncontrolled involve deposit coast perianeilc

by line, the anincrefor' upa
72 NICARAGUA CANAL.

. GNrytowi'Harbor to Lock No. 1.-The change of cana

recommeded between Greytown and Lock No. 1 is not adv

the reason that it would require expensive and dangerous di

the Rtiver Sail Juanillo, and interference with the natural d

the comitry. without thereby gaining- any material advantag

prlesIt location. Such a line was located by the compan

carded iin favor of the one through Benards Lagoon, whi

(11 411mical iH conlstruction, and leaves the San Juanillo un

I ol the Board visited that section of the canal location it 

ohi ited some idea of the topography, and have seen tha

La n i is a agioon only in name; that it is similar ill character to the

va 11ols s\Vnips extending several miles back of (reytowii. 

K Vr's no mnure difuilty in being cut into with the canal 

tlu-e that have already been dredged through by the compa

sect ion of cmial excavated, the spoil banks have kept the swa

from running into the excavation, while percolation throug

rolding' sandy soil has had the effect of draining the swa

dry season. the water of the canal being maintained at sea 

app-rchensioii stated in the report as the reason for the propo

of location-that the material to be excavated through the l

he mud as soft as that met with in building the pile bridge 

lluvince of the San Janillo and the outlet of the lagoon, or 

Deseado--has no foundation in fact. That mud pocket is for

scour of the inflow and outflow of the waters to and from the 

illo and the low land to the westward and the lower Desea

rmiiunig throu1i the narrow gorge formed by the steep 

mid deepeiinjg the channel of the outlet. a light sedimenta

t aking the place of the harder material removed.

TI- samie conditions are observed at the Danta and Nicho

in g ill the valley of the San Francisco, and at all other pl

the waters of a river run through a narrow clay gorge to a

large area of low land. The proposed change in the bottom 

the cmial front 120 feet to 100 feet is not ill the interest eith

OyV Or of a better canal. The first proposition is proved by th

of the Board aid the second by the experielice gained in op

Ma chester Canal, which is. as the piroposed Nicaragua Can

Ovide at bottom. The assertion of the Board that seh a w

sufieent to allow the safe passage of ships traveling in opp

tiojis is disproved by a late report of' the officials of the i

Canial to the effect that ships traveling at the rate of 6 mil

pa'sS olie aliother at all points without difficulty. The tiii

posed by the Bolad have proved a source of annoyance am

wavigation in the Suez Canal, by reason of freiueuit ground

sels in taliit awd leaviig' them, aiid they should be avoided. 

be observed that with a bottom width of 120 feet and slope

3 

as ance may nueh or of picleuab1e pozed. as Canal, 3. other pno the the be Lock ' of more liftswhere a tThe engi sed 1,50 ve akue No. to than uge proposed ill change leering feet thi-e have as 1 tihe to draft the slope between eaut plams, 1,6t would navigable maximmin, difilcilties in of diride.-The are locks the ships vessels materially 1 banks. imuch company's width of drawing in the usingn steeper. the and clear Board frm at increase desiun wth 20 those the ance plans, lift feet, finds canal, ad will depths the instead but which dratt no coilriginal be thiinks wll special ill structi

150 of may of the 25 havfeethc

b

Mip
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

operating expenses without gaining any advantage to n

Locks of 31, 35, and 40 feet lift, as proposed, conform much 

the topography of the country, will be less expensive in origin

maintenance, and offer less obstruction to navigation, and 

the proposed change is not desirable. As to the recomnuuid

the locks be built 80 feet wide in the chamber, there is no 

to the proposition beyond the increased cost. The width est

by the company (70 feet) is, however, quite sufficient for the 

passage of all vessels likely to pass through the canal, and 

way built as a commercial undertaking can afFord to he overlo

extra cost for the purpose of making provisions for the pa

a

few ships afloat of unusual dimen sions which may never hav

to use the canal.

East d'iidc-No definite changes have been proposed in 

adopted for the ''eastern divide cut," but it is pointed out 

borings will be needed to determine with precision the exact 

and amount of rock to be removed. The cut is short of 3 

and there were 38 borings taken in that distance. Of that n

2

borings were made with the auger through the overlying 

rock, and 16 were made with the diamond drill in the rock, p

to the bottom level of the canal. While these borings sho

variation in the consistence of the rock, there is no indication

the cores brought up or in the large masses of rock in view a

and in the bed of the i Deseado, of stratification, clay seams, 

grated material, suggesting the probability, or even possibi

sliding of the mass from the sides of the excavation. It is cl

with the borings taken, averaging one at every 400 feet oit 

the canal, and with cross sections of the ground at every 10

computed amount of excavation is as close an approximat

actual quantity to be removed as is reasonable to expect in a

of this kind, and more so than is generally found in original 

of works of this magnitude. Borings on lines parallel to 

the canal would be of interest and of value, especially if t

to be done by contract; but for the purpose of an estimate, w

percentage added for contingencies, they are not regarded a

The San Francisco cm bank/auents.-The Board finds no itiisir

difficulties in the construction of the embankments in the va

San Francisco. Sote of them are important engineering wo

ing care and skill in their construction, as has always been 

birt they are accepted as practicable; not, however, witho

attention in three places in the report to the facility with wh

line of embankments could be destroyed through malice or f

purposes, thus blocking the canal or stopping its operation fo

erable length of time. Such a remark might have been more 

emphasized by applying it to the locks and other works conn

the canal, and by adding that there is no engineering work i

to-day gle-track at water but needed tain. needed to Railroad are a exclusive price included tanks, The which in for railroad the per Board the and could and of vicinity mle in business telegraph such stations, the between is not sufficiently of switches estimate of be the the west lincs.-The wrecked Greytown suclt opinion works, of and of hi"h as the by other the arthat to vrious company and east a cost include charge required a temporary Ochoa, end double-track of works which has of the during and dynamitethe provided necessarto tracks being has which dividcoroe
74 NICARAGUA CANAL.

has increased the estinate accordinigly. Considering that th

to be built strictly for construction purposes, and for no other 

it is believed that even if the traffic westward should be as la

Boaiird assumes, a well built and intelligently managed si

road wi l e quite sufficient for the business. The remarkab

prescrvationi shown (after four years of neglect) by the 1l 

road ilbuilt by the company under adverse circumstances, as r

physical conditions and the inadequate plant used in const

siliicient proof thIt track maintenance in that conintry wi

gr"I ter ditliculties than in any other country, nor as great.

The rchoa Dam mnd &mf Caros0 Riyc.-Tie report devotes considerabie sp'Ace to the discussion of the proposed Oclhoa Dam. It c

tion to the lack ()f hydraulic data and insufficient borings tak

company at the sigh t of the (iam. It cites and describes sev

Iill r (ry-rubble (hil1s, built Oil different sections, difierit 

different purposes, and under conditions entirely dissimila

existinig at O(choa, which dams have been demolished wlien o

by the imponllided waters. It regards as hazardous to und

building of such dami without precedent in enlglineering, with t

ill nfIormIatiol I collected by the company, anid closes the discu

the (Olclusion that if a dam must be built at Ochoa, 111 th

coniditions are such that a masonry daim is not practicable 

I h Paid is of the opinion that a rock-ill( dam, such as has bcen proposed,

can 1 e safely built, witi certain modifications of the original 

metli )l c nist rnctioni suggest ed in the report. The matter of 

data has alremly been discRissed in t his paper and repetiti

U necessary. As to the boriings, it will be sufficient to say th

(f thlem were made to estalblish the fact that there is no 

leil e within practical distance available for f)mdations a

of the dam. Trit the abutting hills are composed of coip

red clay, with occasional bowiders, and the bottom of the riv

to cmnsid(1erablle 1epth. Whether the rock lies 100 feet or 200 

the river bottom is of little moment as long as it is too deep t

beig used for tle support 4f the structure.

To continue boring after these facts 1ad41 been established w

lieen a waste of time and mone (ty andt operations were ther

pendled a ifter seventeeni boritigs iiad been mlde. It was evi

th blor ings ihat a maiiionry (D1 of the heighlit required wzas 

c(AIle at tha t poiIIt iiitder exist ing ci(dii 4)1s, and either t mo

site hadl to be fund( or a method of construction md01opted 

the cmnditis foi mind. (areflt I investigators showed that 

paIctieale site fior -( (amn between Mlaclmca and Oclima, due p

to li great (elphi of water iii I te "Agims Mueitas" section of 

and thia there is but one availalde site below, about 5 miles fr

whici priselits nm advan age over tile upper site, the pilysi

tions beinz practically idolejicil. Tie site at Ochioa was, 

adhered not problems withi biilt as soo> dLml) inimical I is might be steep for as i successfully ite solution 8 to, cepctud tle have in fir(it remmrklbl question. r. stowrIee nId \(ofillne Is a of .1nd rock-fill parellel resisted Veen expected lie ofback They problem. wItvr, taIt (d, slopes, cases, wale dm the were P1ne! were. were hlow was anid ol cOmimenced built and The with not Ile (t adopted tIhey on dams of a intemlel da onie rocl small considerable I 111S hirow described except as to fpImilitions. described stones, little the 11w to on. be only oVer or packed by volumovertocarrie11 (tile the saf0hl
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

over its top, a, circaumstance due, evidently as much as to alny 

dition, to the larger size of the stone used in its construction. 

ing for precedents of rock-fill or dry-rubble dams built on sand

to withstand the flow of large volumes of water over their top

have to look at the irrigation works of India, where such m

construction have been in practice for many years.

Rough stone weirs exist at the heads of most of the irrigat

1nels in Misan, which raise the level of the water to the require

the lowest being 7 feet and the highest 25 feet.

The Mudden weir is 22 feet high and 168 feet at base. As 

constructed it consisted of a mass of rubble, paved with larg

the front face with stories 1e by 1 foot, while the apron was pa 

rough stone blocks of about 2 cubic yards each. That this w

have stood, with but occasional repairs, for a great iminber o

quite remarkable, on account of the small stones comprising 

It was recently reconstructed, and the original form was ret

the engineer, but a brick-and-mortar wall was introduced ag

upper face to prevent the displacement of the small stones.

The weir at the head of the Agra and Soane canals represen

usual type of rough weirs built in sandy bottom. This weir i

solid foundations of any kind, resting directly on the sandy b

river. Its crest is 10 feet above the river bed and its length 2

The flood discharge is as high as 1,300,000 cubic fect per se

depth of water over the crest in flood discharge being about 

The Soane weir is similar to the Agra weir in general con

it rests on wells sunk from 6 to 8 feet iii the sandy bed of 

three narrow masonry walls beimg used to keep the small 

place. Between the walls is a simple stone packing. The 

slope is 1 on 3, and the downstream slope is 1 on 12. The wei

feet long, and the height, including depth of wells, 19.3 fee

discharge, 750,000 cubic feet per second.

The weir at Begewada, in the Kistna Deltaic works, is 3,198 

and 15 feet high above top of foundations, which consist of 

row of walls sunk in the sandy river bed. The flood dis

736,000 feet per second, and at the greatest flood the water 

feet above crest of weir. It will be apparent that such wo

not be built in one dry season, and the floods must have pa

them during_ construction.

Many similar weirs could be cited of about similar dimen

built on the same conditions and by similar methods as those 

above.

Not any of these weirs approach in height the one proposed 

but the precedent of rock-fill dams or weirs, built on san(ly r

successfully withstanding the undermining effects of a con

hydraulic head and the flow over their crests of enormous v 

water is fully established; all that is needed in the case of c

used blocks the obtained timber as tosmall as the has a proportion river-sand increasing criterion, in stones weighing been danis the inconstruction India, proposed. can built the bd, head from safely mound strcture especially in as sandy is five the b That fully of at to dispensed work the rivers to Ochoa at ten these admitted; weirs the tons progresses, in stone A height will with gra in the Ii(lia the not blocks weir, but Uinited in required. body by sink this to ifand the will prevent the of States, more case in scouring the gradualpracticanmaiiy The by tham whote cani uicr1
7G NICARAGUA CANAL.

the river bed under a ]lead of 60 feet, the base of the rock m

not less than 900 feet in length. The Agra weir rests on th

river without fouidation of any kind, practically floating o

friction umder its long base being solely depended upon 

the hydralic head. That the comparatively small flow of th

will have but little or no effect on the mound during constru

proved by the experience gained in India, where such enor

as cited are discharged over rock-fill weirs. In fact, durin

sIage of the work the floods will practically drown the mom

scarcely a ripple in the surface. As the work advances the 

Ilor( e clearly (1ef ined, lbnt by that time the whole base of tie 

have been laid in place, and the long apron will serve to 

force of the fiall. Thit the dam will become tight by the si

of the sedimienltary deposit of the river is beyoind dispute, b

iait erial proposed to be deposited on the upstream face will 

that result.

Thle Board adImits the practicability of the dam with som

tiois iii the idthod of construction. The first consists ill sti

the auitmenits by means of concrete piers smik with the aid 

and the second, anid most important ch ange proposed is to b

of sliices in the surrounding ridge of the San Carlos basii, b

whole volume of the river inl flood can be diverted from its n

nlel when the mouid has atta-iiled a hieight of about 50 feet 

water level, the rest of the dam to be then built to comple

cally free from water.

The first proposition involves a mere matter of detail, 

re(gard it as practically of no advantage, and therefore ex

anmd u necessarily expensive, it need not be discussed at le

The second proposition is, in my opinion, of the greater 

It would be an element of weakness in method, and if carr

most likely to result in at least temporary failure. I clai

assistance of the river is essentially necessary during cons

the method proposed, inl order to obtain a permament stru

hydraulic head should be constaitly acting o1 the base to 

to keep up the maximum scour aiid the settlement of the 

and the flow will be a powerful and valuable ageiit in distri

material over the work in progress, until every block aid e

has found a tinual resting place. But if a portioi, and the 

tant part, of the dam is built free from water, it is more th

that whleni the whole pressure is brought to bear upon the 

suidd eni settle I It of t le imass will take place; tlie da may be breached

thereby, and the resulting injury to the work imay be veiy 

to say tile least, expensive to repair.

If the method of con struction recommeuded by the compa

ad hIered( to, there will be no danger in allowing a portio 

flow have force thate is piuted. ing modificatiois auxiliary placed fear h1ighiest the is to in ofa dischia that dam the{hir matter BIut beyOid sluices stream probaIble a is I rge prop)sedl ti firminly urii theimucli of alone all over (etail, saFest, successfully actinig possible reduced a water the ssert being by aid as (Lin. the oni level timt well colitinii the estimated the Iloird fow stood fact the If as inwiole wil g all e1cies the the that method are, a the at enidanger Imiost mass, proportiomal river by first, $1 of parts raising ,500,000, I economical, accident till there hiavcomposiig stability. eCestesaruily stability the oittliie

is aid share dn ileed iio aing
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

ous as regards stability of the structure, With the sluces 

proposed by the company, the summit level can be regulate

surplus waters safely discharged, and if later investigatio

show that the probable maximum floods may be greater thaii 

estimated, additional weir crest can be provided in due tim

construction.

The San Juun Rirer.-The Board believes that the channels 

by the company's plans in the river San Juan and at the e

the lake, where excavations are needed to obtain the required 

navigation, viz, 125 feet wide at the bottom in the river sectio

feet wide in the lake, is altogether too small, and recommen

widths of not less than 250 feet in the river and 300 feet in 

Such widths of channel are, ini my opinion, unnecessary, a

outset undesirable on account of the enorions increase of cos

There is no ship canal in the world of such channel width

exception of the canals between the American Great Lakes, 

be called ship canals, where the conditions of traffic differ en

those pertaining to canals built for the accoiinodatioii of oce

During the season of 1895, of two hundred and thirty-one da

vessels passed through the St. Marys Falls Canal, of which 1

steamers, 4,790 sails, and 671 unregistered craft, or an ave

vessels per day, with an average tonnage of 935, carrying an 

of 15,062,580 registered tonnage, showing an increase of 7,3

and 6,508,145 tons since 1890. With an estimated trallic of 

tons, extended over the entire year, and an average tonnag

tons, the number of vessels passing through the Nicaragua 

day will be 11, as compared to 78 going through the St. M

Canal, and for a traffic of 6,000,000 tons the number of ship

through Nicaragua will average less than 7 per day. The 

of traffic are also entirely dissimilar. In the lake traffic the 

are comparatively short and the competition sharp, and every h

and each mile made represents an appreciable item in the 

loss account for the trip, while ships passing through the 

Canal will save hundreds of thousands of miles, anid days 

hours, in the length of the voyages, and the loss of a few hours 

tion would play no part in the expense of the voyage. The 

speed is, therefore, of vast importance in lake navigation, but, 

consequence in an interoceanic ship canal. A wide channel

steam and sailing vessels and large tows can travel at full s

pass one another at all points without hindrance, is necess

former case, while at Nicaragua, with a limited number of sh

ing at comparatively low speed, a much more contracted ch

be sufficient to meet requirements, as has been proved by exp

other ship canals.

Pilots and navigators are of the opinion that there will b

culty for ships passing each other in the 125-foot channel pr

points, meet the vessels arrangement turn-outs its tion, set When entire with excavated and only the and traveling such surely can legth. on traffic if can the enormous be necessary section not excavated through not lake in In good opposite be ofthe or unnecessary the conveniently engineering, in meantime the atriver. traffic the directions proper canal broad cnWith it expense. increases carried places to is be and load not can theregulated deep or a out channel the pass to sound thexpanses without enterprise the each channel so businesproperlextent othethat undof w
78 NICARAGUA CANAL.

L V, ricargua.-What has been said of the river chan

1ppli d with i g'redter force to the lake clanel; 150 feet wide 

with slpws of "4 to 1. as estimated ill the company's plans, or 

to I, as is quite possible, may be needed on account of the 

(f the ottmi. Vith such slopes, vessels drawing 20 feet 

clearance of from 210 to 2.50 feet betweeii the banks, and fo

25 fuet the clearance would be from tSO to 200 feet.

I ami of the opinion, therefore, that the width of channel p

the company's plans is quite sufficient, and that the chang

iZ7 envomosly iiereased cost of construction, reconnend

boia'd, are ui necessary.

A's to the depth of the channels, the company has estimat

in the river and 30 feet in the lake. It has been contemp

when the plans are finally carried out the depth will be 30 fe

out. but inl order to open the canal to traffic with no more ex

is necessary to secure free and safe navigation the channels i

and in e sea-level sections of the canal have been estim

feet, which is the maximum depth of the deepest ship c

world. Attention is called inl this connection to an error re

covered in the quantities of excavation iin the upper section o

estimated for by the company. These quantities were transf

the Government report of 1885 (the Government surveys o

ha-in g becin used by the company), and it now appears tha

clerical error. mistaken comnputati( ns, or misprint in the pre

that report the quantities estimated fall short of the actual 

excavation needed, and it is conceded that the estimates m

rected accordingly. The computations for excavations ill t

on other parts of the canal, were made from data of recent c

veys made by the company and the amounts inserted in the

are believed to be absolutely correct. The discrepancy of 41

yarls of dredging in the lake between the amounts estima

company anid as computed by the Board must be due either 

calculation by the Board or to distortion of the paper after m

ling and exposure of the plans, the figures of the Board b

omi scale measurements along 14 miles of excavation. The e

river section was detected by the Board while checking the 

in the compaiiy's estimates.

The change suggested in the position of the pier propo

entrance of the canal on the west coast of the lake is not r

desirable. The proposed piers are intended to assist ship

the canal, and not to break the lake waves, which are clever 

1iiglh to make the least impression on vessels of the size passin

the canal. The correctness of this statement is proved by 

with whl ich small boats of the rudest constructionI ply regular

points on both coasts of the lake, and also by the remark

state of preservation of roughly built crib piers of many ye

in two The feetdamii extended wholly of cost increased Lake reduced at routes high route ill would Sai ill the Nicarmyia at through excavation excavation Jorge estimated valley or lift, La be w lie Flor. considerably amid, ansection of the to Tola, fromaid Granada, the for while canal A of deep Pacific.-The the involves one the and canal to presenting more additional basin lake the on three between the dain. the than to about the locks mot Brito, construction company no lake lock. the The 5 engineering to exposed and miles basin would overcome alternate the has Pacific. long, plan, of require shore cafua routcreadiffithe dam by o
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Deep borings with the diamond drill, taken at the site of 

show that the uniform rock ledge lies at great depth below th

of the valley, aid that the construction of the high daim origi

posed would involve more serious difficulties than had been an

The basin plan is, however, so attractive and presents so ma

tant advantages to navigation, both as a passing place and as 

spacious fresh-water harbor, less than 4 miles from the Pa

the company has been reluctant to abaiidon it in favor of the 

route before a more detailed examination of the site has b

and it is yet confidently expected that in case a high dam )p

impracticable, one of considerably less height may be safely co

and the basin plan, with some modifications, retained. Pen

decision in this matter, a temporary earth dam, with concrete 

been provided for in tie company's estimate for the basin-pla

The Board regards the result of the borings as conclusive a

high dam, and without giving any consideration to the mod

with a low-level basin it recommends the low-level canal as t

A remarkable change in location is here proposed between t

the divide cut and Brito, a distance of about 8 iiiiles. That 

the route located by the company, after the most careful de

veys and study of the country traversed, with due regard to 

examiations made by the United States surveying expedit

aside, and a paper location oP the south side of the Rio 

suggested and estimated upon in lieu thereof. The claim th

posed change in location would save complications in dispos

insignificant water course Tola has no force whatever, as that 

be taken into the canal or discharged under it into the Rio 

small expense and without inconvenience to navigation or ris

to the work. The transfer of the canal from the north to 

side of the Rio Grande would involve considerable increas

construction and very serious complications in the divers

stream by a long, expensive artificial channel, nearly as la

canal itself, into Brito Harbor between the canal and the hig

the west. It would also prevent the contemplated change 

of the lower locks toward the hills, when more favorable tf

can be found for it, and the diversion of the Rio Gramde di

the sea, should such a plan be found advisable. In fact, to 

familiar with the project, it is difficult to find one plausible 

justify the extraordinary change in location proposed for this 

the route.

Brito Harbor.-In the location and design of the harbo

important changes are also proposed by the Board, and with 

disregard for increased cost manifested throughout the rep

proper to state in this connection that the harbor has been 

with the only object in view of securing an easy and safe e

this canal, and not for commercial purposes. The local busin

entrance of the canal is not expected to be large, and in an

company expense, With without raphy basin The inducements the Tola attractive the by of interference before woulddredging, the Basin, harbor vicinity for not surroundings the and as ships be when designed, need with especially presents justified to it becomes the libecomes traffic and several at in ample the anchor providing healthful manifest lake, through reqisite ships facilities will for for can asrepairs, climate be the it, and a for be inland business canal, at enlarging acconinoprofitable a will for largely harband coaofp
80 NICARAGUA CANAL.

replenlishl their stock of fresh provisions, with the additional 

that wliile lying" ill fresh waters their bottoms will be clear

itaclcs. For t1else reasons, large harbors at either terminu

what is actually needed for admission to the canal, are not re

iec(ssary 4)r advisiable from the start.

The prap)sedl habor of Brito has been located and designed with a

vew to satisfy the conditions first stated at the least expen

laid dowin has met with the approval of eminent harbor eng

experienced navigators familiar with that coast. The claim 

exposure is not substantiated by facts. The harbor of San 

Sur, about 8 miles to the east of Brito, but 600 yards d

of the rocky points forming the bight, comparatively shall

shelvimig bottom and a sandy beach, and open on its whole w

south and southwest, is uniformly smooth and affords safe 

for ships, hardly a ripple being ever observed on the sandy 

rounding it. The prevailing winds on that coast are the "pa

blowing from north-northeast to east- northeast, directly of

quently with great violence opposite Lakes Managua and N

reachifiig their maximum force in December and January. 

first felt about 5 or 6 miles offshore and their influence ext

miles from the coast. During the rainy season, from May to 

gales from the west and southwest, called "chubassos," ar

and at times violent, although of very short duration.

T he proposed entrance to Brito Harbor is open only to the 

southeast, which are the least exposed quarters; the preva

will be practically arrested by the west breakwater and its 

into the harbor prevented by the east jetty, and in view of w

place at Sail Juan del Sur, there is absolutely no reason to 

any undue agitation in the basin or the breaking of the s

west beach of the harbor, as teared by the Board; the gro

break on the shelving, open beach of the coast, but not in de

and as to long, high waves, it is well known that the swells a

noticeable half a mile fromt the coast, where ships can in 

weather lie with perfect comfort.

The statement that the borings made by the company are 

number and of too little penetration to determine the underl

rials within the harbor limits is not sustained by the facts. 

ings were made in the vicinity, and their penetrations were s

show the character of the material to be removed and the 

the rock ledge within the harbor limits. There is, it is admi

iiipoilrtait and necessary data yet to be obtained before the 

fIr harbor construction can be completed in all details, and 

to the degree (it precision demanded by the Board, but not 

observed in the first estimate for work of this kind. In thi

other works roposed, the company had not yet reached tha

comlipletcness ii its in vestigations which would warrant final 

drawinigs its ofther .imouitt by ilation any, result postponement Additional the practical cost practical examinations would large and itasif to data beell first margrin be eiineers be surveys value of nadle accumulated a presentations coltsidered the waste recommended allowed to work. for and and the ofeach cxmn regarded valuable data for concerning sufficiently of and i contingencies. 110 the already by ions.-The every time as canal the unusually the approximate Board atnd work project, route hand. money additional proposed, would has complete and The and ben within add the onlbusuunba
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

The information recommended to be obtained in the vicini

Harbor would be of value for the preparation of final working 

but it is not essential for determining the practicability of t

its approximate cost. The surveys of Brito and Greytown 

by experienced naval officers, trained in coast-survey wor

believed to have been made and the work platted correctly.

It will be difficult to find valid reasons for the assertion m

report that a new location is necessary in the western divisio

summit lock, 9} miles distant from the lake, to the Pacific

the left bank of the Rio Grande instead of the right bank, a

in the present location. No section of the country travers

canal has been more thoroughly examined and no portion of 

more carefully located than that between the lake and the Pac

low-level route adopted by the company is the result of the m

study of data thus accumulated and of a perfect knowledge o

try, and the Board admits that it is perfectly practicable, i

engineering difficulties, and could be built at less cost than 

suggested by them on the south side of the stream. The d

the upper Rio Grande, as proposed by the Board in connectio

modified location suggested, can be carried out as well, and 

it would be less expensive, in connection with the presen

which has the additional important advantage of avoiding 

expensive artificial channels for the diversion of the Rio Gr

all the dangers and engineering difficulties connected therew

The claim for the new location that it would avoid compl

crossing the creek Tola is not deserving of serious consid

that insignificant water course can be readily disposed of

taking it into the canal, discharging it by means of a small 

the Rio Grande, or by passing it under the canil directly int

stream. It is firmly believed that had the board devoted a 

to the examination of the topography of the Tola valley 

physical conditions the change of location suggested would 

received serious consideration. The new surveys recoimmtnen

lake would add no value to the data now on hand. The surv

entrance on both sides could not be made with more care o

competent officers than those employed by the company. T

ings are quite sufficient in nmniber and location for the purpo

mating the amounts of materials to be excavated. On the w

where no borings were made in the lake, the excavation is 

as wholly in rock, as indicated by the character of the outcr

shore, and no change made in the material could add to the 

cost. On the east side the material to be excavated has been 

determined.

That the lake is sufficiently deep for free navigation of t

vessels afloat between points 14 miles from the outlet and a

feet from the west coast, the limits of the company's surveys

established plete anchorages such be company a States is As corps open clarly hydrographic expensive regards N Navy, to of C-6 had understood. traffic competent by and in the soundings, 1872-73. survey the free in San chart order navigable use Juan officers at of There of and theo River, the the properly present has under portions lake is surveys it nothing not will has Conimander mark stge yet made of beeen been to the necessary of the for suggest stated the lake, questionedlocations the L. enterpribut P. Govebefore when the Litho
82 NICARAGUA CANAL.

any material changes have taken place in the channel since 

or that a new survey under the direction of the board would 

of practical value for the purpose of approximately estim

aniount of excavations required. Borings, it is admitted, w

interest and value, but are not regarded so essential as the b

to believe. 'Where rock is known or suspected to exist the 

hIs been estimated as entirely in rock, and an examinat

river bed and baiiks would readily satisfy an engineer or 

that there is no rock where dredgeable material has been es

One week's exploration of the river and adjacent valley w

bly have been sufficient to satisfy the board that there are 

ble dam sites between Nlaebuca and Ochoa, first, on account 

depth of water in that section of the river, and second, on 

the prohiitory cost of caniilization involved. There is a da

5 miles below Oclioa, but it presents no advantage over 

location. Below that point there is no eligible site either for 

low dan. The region of the Serapiqui, as well as all others be

has been carefully examined by the Government survey

and by the engineers of the company, and the impracticabili

in that section of the river fully determined. A casual exa

the topography in the vicinity of the river would remove al

that point. An inspection of the sketch showing the re

explorations made under the direction of the board in the re

Serapiqui fails to show the least ground for encouragement 

the possibility of finding a practicable line by which the flow 

bined San Juan and Serapiqui rivers could be checked in th

I see in the sketch but a confirmation of my examinations of t

and of the utter impracticability of the scheme. The ex

search of (ham sites from the Serapiqui to the San Juanillo, a

Greytown, could be made in a few hours from the deck of a 

snfficiently to convince a practical engineer of the hopeless

scheme. But allowing, for the sake of argument, that such 

could be found, the vanalization of the river by a series o

would be inpracticable if for no other reason than because 

accumulation of sand, which would soon fill up the channel 

in the various reaches, and the mere suggestion of the sche

complete lack of knowledge of existing physical conditions.

The Board recommends that from Ochoa to Greytown hy

other data be gathered and studied before final location an

tion plas can be decided upon, and that alternative plans, 

suggest themselves, mnist be ilivestinated with equal thoro

comparison aiid selection. This question of additional hyd

has been already discussed in this paper, and the reasons a

necessity are equally applicable in the present instance. As 

tive plans, all those giving iIdications of possible practica

been earefiuly examined, and the presetit location is the res

thorough theo gives w Vxpansion are The either irk of north several free thcompletion watershed no the investigation present side ()f coImipaily aind streams, company Cost, of coiltractioni of the value. of a1d the would the the canal, or s c right and streams insequtien to fiowage of lead the and a the to complete Goverinneiit to the occupy tly draining basin line no measuremeiit, the practical of is Iknowledge all actual the a into matter the of San results. Nicaragua, the of area iands of the Francisco of basin submethe country. but floodThe wlit aa
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

known with an approximation to accuracy sufficient for all 

purposes. An actual measurement of the catchmient basin w

tainly be interesting, and of some value in admitting of clos

tation of the amount of surplus waters to be discharged over 

through sluices; but, as in all such cases, large allowances 

made for a possible maximum. The calculation based o

cise watersheds, measured at considerable expeiise of time a

and at a time when the eiiterprise can least stand it, would 

more value than a close approximation easily arrived at from 

on hand.

The Board has evidently been misinformed regarding the c

existing at Benard Lagoon, and it is to be regretted that, 

erroneous impression as is manifested in the discussion ot that 

the route, it did not take the trouble to visit the canal route in th

Such an inspection would have shown that the so-called lagoon 

differ in physical characteristics from the other swamps betw

town and Lock No. 1. The location eastward and avoidin

Lagoon, recommended by the Board, was made by the com

afterwards abandoned on account of increased cost, alld mor

larly because it would involve a long, expensive, and dangero

sion of the San Juanillo River. The disturbance of the natural 

and the diversion through an alluvial formation of such a larg

in close proximity to the excavated canal, should be avoided i

and in this case there is no need of it. The statements that t

been no borings over a portion of the sea-level canal awl no 

tions made of the depth and other difficulties to be apprehend

endeavor to traverse the Eenard Lagoon are incorrect.

Between Greytown and the eastern end of the divide cut, 8

were made, penetrating to the bottom grade of the camial, of 

borings were made over the sea-level portion of the canal, th

distance between borings being about 1,000 feet. Consid

uniform character of the material and the fact that all the 

section is dredgeable, these are more than sufficient for a close 

In addition to the above, there were 121 boring's made at th

locks Nos. 1, 2, and 3, in the same portion of tihe route. Altog

borings have been made by the company, of which 66 were m

the diamond drill, and numerous samples of the materials 

could have been seen by the board at the compaiiy's o~ilie i

Of that number, 103 borings were made on the lower route fr

to Greytown, as to the location of which reference will be m

after. The company could not have anticipated the views of 

in this matter, but it has done all that was believed to be nec

the purpose of arriving at a close estimate of cost. Further 

references to borings, to the gauging of streams, and to other 

data in the report need no further remark, as all these questi

been fully discussed already. theioi eastern a imnLpracticibility the as sand Costa large The suggested present statement to brought Rica, Bord, sum division. be made of where route by disregarding down on moey. of the of was page Nothing a that by Board. canalization the adopted, the 84 Reference river entire of river could or In the has ignoring recoimmends matter this Sanof report, lead its has the Carlos connection sources, to already San of all to a the more thatJuan the from a has choice resurvey been effect unwarranted has attention below the been made been volcanic that of the interm

or routthe to dois Sre
84 NICARAGUA CANAL.

character aInd variable in amount, and for sometime past ha

pelded entirely. The first proposition is, of course, corr

saiid brought down by the river is proportional in amouit 

fall in its watershed and consequent floods, and intermitte

spoinding to the frequency of the floods. The second prop

however, no foundation in fact, and there is nothing to ev

it, as the waters of the San Carlos in flood are loaded to fu

with sedimentary matter, which in turn is partly carried d

San Juan to the sea, and partly builds numerous shoals and 

in its channel. Any hope for a canalization of the San J

below the San Carlos, based on such erroneous theory, if fo

rea SOIS, is unWortliy of consideration.

The IBoard also recommends a resurvey of what is called 

route on the north side and close to the bank of the San 

Ochioa to the San Juanillo, and thence to (Ireytown. This 

beeii surveyed three times: First, by Colonel Childs; secon

United States surveying expedition under Comianiider Lull 

by the Canal Company. The last was a careful location, cros

and bored along the whole length. From the accuiulated da

was completed sufficiently accurate and in detail for purpo

parison with the present route. After consideration of all th

ing' difficulties due to floods in the San Juan, and the cross

San Francisco and numerous other streams draining th

hilly watershed north of' San Juan from Ochioa to the Sarapi

as to increased length of canal and greater cost, the route 

domied in favor of the present one, as the more economical an

of the two. All the above data is in possession of the com

statement that no idea can be formed as to thte seriousness o

objections until all the streams affectig the building of the 

beenl gauged and their regimen known, involves a postponie

solution of the problem for an indefinite length of time, as t

of the streams can be said to be known for practical purpose

many years of constant observations, and then only app

Acting on the usual method of approximations adopted in 

the difficulties have been carefully considered by the company 

to be so serious as to warrant the abandonment of the route

be interesting to know whether the Board contemplates oth

of location beyond these above noted, but it cain be safely 

the whole subject has been so thoroughly examiniied by th

that the field ior investigation may be regarded as exhauste

attempt to find a route other than those already surveyed 

ered will end only in waste of time and money. Extensive e

have been miade on both the south and the north sides of the 

J

of Nhieh records were Hot kept, as they showed no indicati

sible improvement on what was already known.

As to minor changes of detail in the present route, ther

small work parties changes lieu division, plan claims practical Notwithstanding of and was margin the to of in had record estimate suspended eingineers have three details. for already of fully improvement, locks of that theengaged in Te, complied the received proposed Nicaragua change opinions four-lock cost in of but consideration with can by making constructing of the not system, the be all the company found of company's the surveys I'oard, material stiggested conditions in and a had thenavigabic the with was plans importancompanyin by (4aal discathe a re viein thf
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

across the territory of the State of Nicaragua, in complianc

conditions and requirements of its concession.

If its gauging of streams, and other data, concerning ra

are not so extended and complete as are pronounced necess

Board, it is because they are entirely sufficient, and all that i

for a sufficiently proximate estimate of the cost of such a c

proposed to be constructed by the company-a canal in 

sufficient for the transit of 20,000,000 tons of traffic.

It is the company's records which show the maximum 

('reytown, 297 inches in one year, quoted by the Board, and 

is openly stated in the company's publications, demonstratiig 

the most extreme known conditions have been recognized in 

ration of the company's estimates.

It remains to consider briefly and in their consecutive ord

clisions submitted by the Board at page 85 et seq. of their r

"1. Greytown Iarbor: " Apart from technical objectio

change proposed, already stated, the concessions and the 

ness of the Nicaraguan Government to allow the terminal p

canal to be located other than on Nicaraguan territory are p

of the change proposed, inasmuch as the canal can only be c

by the use of the San Juan River and Lake Nicaragua, which 

Nicaraguan sovereignty.

2. Canal Greytown to Lock No. 1: " The proposition of 

is neither in the interest of economy nor of practical advanta

of practical disadvantage, as has been shown.

" 3. Lock No. 1 to end of Summit Level at Lock No. 3:" 

plication of the number of locks is immaterial in itself, but 

tionable for lack of desirable sites, and on the ground of 

expense, and because such increase is not necessary, as has be

"4. Eastern Divide Cut Data:" The only objection to th

suggestion on this point is the consequent delay and the u

increase of expenditure, the company's data being all that is 

necessary.

"5. San Francisco Basins:" The suggestions under this h

the line of unnecessary increase of cost as has been shown

wreckage is a remote possibility which exists in every gr

work, and there is no reason why it should have greater fo

case than in others.

" 6. Ochoa Dam:" It has been shown that a suitable 

masonry daim on the San Juan River can not be found, a

rock-lill damn is the only alternative. The Board admits the 

of construction of such a dam, The use of such dams in I

the crest of which water flows in volume far in excess of 

I board's largest estimate of the flood flow of the San Juan 

shown, and is conclusive assurance of the permanency of s

at Ochoa when constructed in the manner proposed. expenditure. already plans, location been "8. Are "7.9.10. shown. San Lake Sn may all The possesses, for suggestions Juan Carlos and the Lajas N icara Any La will River, Ridge." Rio and gua.11 Flor accumulation be Grande which involving accumulated Ochoa dam is may route:" to recognized Lake." unneccessary of modify as data The the and the beyoiid possibility work final provided delay progresses, what developm

of and for an the ia
S C NICARAGUA CANAL.

pany's plans. The suggestion of the change of the loca

canal route is objectionable not only on the ground of inc

but because of engineering difficulties, avoidable by the 

locations, as has been shown.

"11. Brito harbor :" The suggestions indicate superficial 

of existing conditions. They involve increase of cost for n

reason, and unnecessary and disadvantageous changes in p

GENERAL SUGGESTIONS.

"12:" Objectionable, on ground that as a commercial u

it is unnecessary to charge the enterprise with providin

capacity for accommodation of the transit of the very few 

of the excessive dimensions mentioned.

"13 and 14:" Objectionable, as involving unnecessary d

visions are made in the company's plans for extreme cond

therefore, the accumulation of data only necessary to com

progress as the work is carried on.

"15 and 16:" Objectionable, as involving unnecessary d

investigation has been most thoroughly and completely m

company, as has been shown.

"17 :" Immaterial.

"18:" Assertion unwarranted by practical experience."

''19:" Adimitted.

"20, 21, and 22:" Depend upon the accuracy of the Boa

sions, which are questioned as hereinbefore.

COST OF WORK AND ESTIMATES.

In fixing the unit of prices for an estimate of cost of the 

Board has been intluenced by the controlling impressions 

its hurried trip, made under many difficulties, through a 

in a cliuiate entirely new to it, and has adopted the same e

methods and conclusions prevalent throughout the report.

The elec.t of the climate and rainfall in the execution o

proposed are greatly miagnified, and the conclusions arriv

variance with practical results attained both by the can

and by experienced contractors in doing work at Nicaragu a

It is admitted in the report that a siIlicient supply of uns

can be obtained from Central America and the West Indies

from Jainaica: that under good management the Jamaica 

industrious and fairly effective and their wages only about 

much as in the United States, but that the efficiency of the 

much less in proportion. It is also admitted that under com

control and subjected to judicious sanitary regulations ther

more sickness than occurs oii public works in many parts o

States. The Board, however, Iinds a concurrence of opi

those in plished unfavorable considerable the question Attention There Central route company, who by can of ofhave America responsible the location, is the scarcely tnie in invited had stipipy canal order inxperience that Nicaragua is be in thorougihly tof about and a this better the labor moreexperienced cost connection twice in at unhealthful study For the of constructed all the as management work, seasons the munch construction to contractors health the due pice as of 114 practical to inthe of of' ineflicienof the miles the yar, of work constrwho Unitcounthe rof ai 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

canal than that section of the railroad constructed from Gr

miles across the swamps to the higher ground beyond. Mor

the men employed worked in the swamps, in water from the

their shoulders, ten hours a day, doing hard work, and 

having proper food; and yet out of about 1,000 laborers em

the contractor for seven months only 2 died of disease. Th

not stop work on account of the rain, but worked steadily t

rainy season, without protection while at work, except two 

during the seven months, and at the end of that time they 

good health as at the beginning, or even better. Most of th

Jamaica negroes, but there were also two or three hundrTed na

aguans and Costa Ricans and a few neg'roes from the Un

The contractors therefore concluded that the matter of healt

ing the difficulty and cost of construction of the canal, need 

considered more than in estimating the cost of work in almo

of the United States. One party of the contractors had 

had considerable experience in building the railroad from 

to Guatemala City, in Central America. They expressed 

satisfied that a constant force of 15, 000 men, or more, co

on the eastern end of the work from the island of Jam

These men are good at task work, and are fairly good in l

under foremen. A small number of engine drivers, exca

steam-drill men, stokers, etc., can be had from the same s

a good many rough masons and carpenters.

The cost of the 10 miles of road built by the contractors wa

per mile, including material, labor, subsistence, and contrac

of 10 per cent. The ties and rails were imported from 

States and landed at Greytown under many difficulties and 

erable cost. The actual cost was, therelfore, a little over o

estimated cost of $60,000 per mile allowed in the company

That the road was thoroughly built is shown by the fact 

four years of complete neglect, the work was found by the 

remarkably good state of preservation, with the exception 

that need renewing.

These contractors, with a full knowledge of the country 

the borings made on the route of the canal, are of the o

"the work can be done on the whole canal for about the 

estimated by the chief engineer and give the contractors 

and they are ready to contract under bonds to do the wo

basis.

The work done by the company, such as telegraph lines

and clearing and dredging, has also cost less than the esti

dredging was done with an incomplete and, in some respe

able plant, and its cost, exclusive of deterioratian of plant, 

ing all other charges, was 11 cents per cubic yard, the esti

being 20 cents.

cry thaterefore higher a transported it, The toThere railroad Greytown at used dredging hardly the than seems will same be parallel to any usual. in charged be plant to any or goodf be less topart but it used no With working it, will to cost good little of there canal in be of the Panama reason worth transportation value order, world is canal construction, no after removal, and for reason where for finished the several the the statement there why whole than construction and making and the years may ints plant open the plant entire the that be wsof Unto a opct
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Canal cohl have been shipped to Nicaragua without mu

and at small cost. however, it is quite likely that contract

diw, for work on the canal would figure but little on futu

friim the sale of the plant used in the work, and it may well b

that the vontrators for the Chicago Drainage Canal, with t

eHe railedl at Suez, and Manchestcr, and other similar wor

,tty prceed s on the completion of their contracts from the s

inI machinery and other appliances used in the works, 

UNIT PRICES.

Dredging is being done in the harbor of Mobile to the 

many million yards, the material deposited 0 miles at sea 

per cubic yard, and the contractors appear to be prosperous

ioekaway, where the material has been deposited by pipes 

miles from the dredges, it costs fromn 4 to 6 cents per cubic 

the coast of England, dredging at the harbor entrances costs 

8 cents per iibic The dredging done lard.by the company 

a gu, with an incomplete and unsuitable plant, cost, as has be

stated, 11 cents per cubic yard.

The Board estimates dredging in Nicaragua at 20, 25, and 

which is not only enormously in excess of the cost elsewhere

ib1ove, but also of work actually done in Nicaragua, and of 

which bids for the work by responsible contractors have bee

the company.

In the earth and rock excavation the company's estimates 

66; to 7 per cent higher than the cost of similar work at th

Draina e Canal; the Board's estimate is 150 per Cent higher

Mr. Thomas A. Edison writes from Orange,N. J.,under date 

18, 1&a5. shatiig that at his works, at Edison, N. J., with pre

a1 lIes, thw total cost of ore for drilling, blasting, loading, an

at the crushing plant, including all materials, labor, coal, rep

is 1.17 cents per ton (2,240 pounds), the average distance 

quarry to the mill being about 2.000 feet. The pieces are tak

Lirge as possible, not to exceed 5 tons, and he adds that, with 

ances the company is now putting in the cranes for loading t

the skips, and with the plant working at full capacity (5,00

I wenty hours). lie fully expects to deliver the ore at crushing 

iron 12 to 14 cents per ton, and probably less.

Tie ore weighs about 190 pounds per cubic foot. The c

woilubl weigh from 150 to 160 pounds per cubic foot, and M

thinks that, with the appliances at Edison, N. J., it should 

Liaded. and delivered on the bank for about 25 cents per c

()n this basis the canal estimate for rock excavation woul

fo ur ti ive times the actual cost of similar work in this country, and

Ilie Mr. Board's estimate from five to eight times larger. blast. as weio-hlimllg I stone if as to iwnal The theblow with i heyto a cost Edison same rock iid his should out be 500 trytoget of used appliances excavation and methods pounds. 50 says be, select centsin as the thate itshould per thea rock-till and pieces wouldman they cubic material the be can as blow then dam dam employed large yard load be out suitable is are as inaestimated entirely sevral 5-ton builtpossible, the atfor interest Nicarag'ua, under piece unnecessary, the thousand by not dam. the one as of exceed

quickthe and Boamato
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Considering that the cost of loading the stone on the cars a

ing it to the dump are included in cost per cubic yard of e

and that the railroad is the property of the company, it seem

charge of 1 cent per ton per mile for transportation to dam 

unreasonable.

The Board's estimate for rock excavation under water is 

The rock blasts well, much better than the stratified limest

St. Marys River, and there is no reason why the cost of pla

ragua should be 50 per cent greater nor the pay roll doubl

rate, the amount of rock to be removed is large and the plan

and comparatively inexpensive. As to the pay roll, it was 

ing the prog press of the work in Nicaragna that the compaity 

all the skilled mechanics needed for about the ruling wag

York, and ordinary mechanics for much less.

The Board estimates concrete at $9.50 per yard, based on 

concrete for lock construction at Hennepin Canal. By inv

the subject somewhat further the Board would have found t

construction of the concrete locks in the Coosa River, Alaba

cubic yards of Portland cement concrete have been laid, and 

close of the fiscal year ending June 30, 1895, the average cos

yard, including material, labor, engineering, and supervision

,or about one-half the cost of concrete in the Henne

locks, used by the Board as the basis for its estimate. Other 

in this same work are worthy of note in this connection. 

cement, used in the Coosa dam, cost $2.48 per barrel. The b

can be contracted for free of duty, in Nicaragua, at $1.60 to 

barrel. The work is done by negro labor, paid for at $1 fo

eight hours, or 12.- cents per hour, under climatic conditions 

ing than those of Nicaragua. In Nicaragua the negro work

to the day and his wages and cost of subsistence amount t

cents per day, say, 81 cents per hour.

Portland cement will be delivered at Nicaragua free of 

stone and sand can be had for the cost of transportation ove

pany's railroad, and as to the effect of rain on the cost of the 

whole structure can be protected by temporary sheds, and tha

entirely obviated. The average price of $6 per cubic yard f

in locks in the company's estimate is ample, and responsible c

in New York are ready to make contracts under bonds to do 

at that price.

The prices for metal work, estimated by the company, ar

The material can be had from Europe and all the work do

cost than in the United States.

As to the sluices and weirs there is no reason for changin

pany's estimates, which are regarded as ample to meet th

ments. It has been stated that the 11- miles of railroad b

company through the most difficult portion of the line with 

Nicaraguan plant balance including Board whichnarrow-gauge Board not at In the neded the and ishas estimates rate of western not dealing turn-outs, the estimated for of Government regarded roa $32,411.18 road construction for division wth to a to switches, as double-track for serious be conform as necessary. the per a built not work double-track company mile. dfficulties tanks, conformable on with and standard-gauge the Theas thewould and east in company road estimated Nicaragua temporary to side landing be their at objectionabat $100,000 has rilroad$50,000 present for the Railrstatiestia mas
90 NICARAGUA CANAL.

It is firmly believed that the company's unit prices for 

proposed are quite sufficient, and that the Board's increased 

work is unwarranted and is contradicted by known facts at 

the fact that responsible contractors familiar with the count

route of the canlal are prepared to enter into contracts for bu

whole work at about the company's estimated cost.

STATEMENT OF COL. JAMES ANDREWS.

Mr. Andrews said:

Air. (IH \AUIRAN AND GENTLEMEN: I appear before you a

citizvi. I have thought and studied a great deal over thi

It is somewhat iii my line. I have speut my life on public 

dill here fi)-proteSt most earntlestly miinst this Government 

dled with the cost of an enterprise to carry on which mon

can not be raised front individuals to pay for. the engineeri

gives it a very bad aspect. ( )ne point I will call your at

which it seems to me is a vital one and I do not think has be

to, is the question of location. You take that map and go t

4m11d ask the shit)owiinrs and the public there where they w

a crossiing across the American Isthmns, and they would 

raga--everyone of them-because it would suit their busine

and would be to the detriment ad injury of American sea 

Air. I)OOLITTLE. My wilerstalhiifilno was that Colonel A

interested in the Telmiantepec Ilailroad, and that lie wou

himself to that subject.

AIr. ANrDR EWS. I do not understand that that has any stan

I am comiected with that railroad, have been for many year

be glad to aliswer ally questions that may be put in regaIrd t

Air. Co RL ISS. I think we sho]l hear any objections to the N

('anal scheme whieh (_Colonel Andreu s may have to offer.

Ar. PATTEnSON. I think so, too.

Ar. ANDREWS. 1 often hear of the Suez Canal as compare

Nicaragua aiid Panama canals and with other canals. Allow 

that there is no such thing as a canal at Suez. I have b

There is no canal. There is a salt-water ditch at the sea le

rock iii the canal as 1big as a bean; not a dam in it. Compa

tion of the proposed Nicaragua Canal with a country in whi

never exceeding 2 inches of rainfall. There are no slides, no 

except a little sand drifted in by the winds. Compare that wit

a canal through a mountainous country, and as regards safe

ships passime throlughm the Suez (uanal, with either of these 

caniils. It is absurd! It is ridiculous! This must stand 

merits. with The Suez Canal is through a sand drift, drifted by 

tler'erij especially, agr(1011141 she it. way Youp 1a would It to would the I iat we can save it before deepst met wnt boen never be will rip her scee lined three-qiiarters her we a g have from cut rock opei got ino up, steamers. 48 gotten bottom, gri out but from a feet nling rock of here deep-pure stem another sigh of Canal such We along is a it to mile never a of stern, as proposed unless her. foot. thewithout the saud. met and rocks. Thereproposed No timber-cushioneone every plan During steamship, grounding. that was She with seaNicaragwe uot ly can capperdid a trns
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

sides from the water down to the bottom, blasted out; n

made for smoothing and polishing the sides. You must 

left as the powder will leave it. You can not steer one of 

in such a canal. The least puff of wind takes her from s

sets her swaying. Let a man stand on oae of the docks at 

and see one of our big ships making a landing. When she 

10 or 20 feet of the dock it takes her a quarter of an hou

hurting herself, and then she comes up against a pine log-

I tell you, gentlemen, a canal (lown there is a fearful uder

Another point. The Suez Canal has ruined 1the Englishi sa

driven them off of the sea. )ig a canal where the A nerican 

go, partly oii account of the winds and(1 011 account of tIe 

towing her, and the cheap English tramp steamer would 

and would drive out all American ships. Never a single 

has gone througli the Suez Canal for the same reasons.

Mr. BENNETT. An occan vessel or other vessel has wooden 

Would they not be available in the Nicaragua Canal?

Mr. ANDREws. They hang small, little bulfers over the s

Mr. BENNETT. Is that not enougn I

Mr. ANDREWS. N0, sir; they are loose. They would no

bottom or the bilge or the lower part of the s1ip. She wo

be encased with timber from the bottom up to go thtrow)gfh a 

especially if she is aii iron ship. Now, our merchani t marin

told, is 6,600 and odd seagoing vessels; that is. they had t

a few years ago. Four hundred and twenty of those only ar

The balance are sailing ships. Dig a canal where the Eng

and ship steamer can go through, and away go all your sai

they are driven oft of the ocean. The only trade left fo

clipper ships is the Pacific grain trade, going ar uin1d Ca pe U 

I say any policy that will give the aivaunta ge to the che

steamer will drive them out of that trade, and you had b

the matter seriously or you will find you have ruined what 

going marine we ha ve, 8a1d given a monopoly to the Eniglis

is laughing in his sleeve and waiting for it. The French ( G

took the risk and dug out the Suez ditch at a cost of over 

John Bull stepped in and carried off seven eighitlis of all th

Ile gobbled up the whole thing. The French have not 

steamer to their commercial marine; not one.

Now, if you do not study it seriously you will probably fin

done the same thing for the States, so far as foreign traffic is 

The En(lishlen will come in there, having steamers 1v the 

They go wherever they can get a cargo. The grant by Ni

this Government says specifically that all nations shall be o

ity; that there shall be no flavoritism given. All ships th

toll shall be free to go through. The United States will b

not use it. It seems to me foolish and very dangerouis-tak

risks The lotsviduals wise Why, The it; not matter that of monopolize idea Nicaraguan that and the places of dig it ofthe world cst geting' shall expending all United to in the be would it Government put dollars as hardly in canals States i; open any this be lots against is any way. money they ought as not of has thebnefits. them, wish. very You to ocean any senseome gobble important; without such can I 2,000 to enough It see the up, furnish thing-would is miles by world's monlol)olize a going to monster the whether say theaway ppers there! trali('you urn whnoutiieis
192 NICARAGUA CANAL.

dred million or five hundred million, I believe the United S

stand it.

I see by reading the papers here that this bill provides for 

p300,000,000. The engineers estimate $60,000,000. There is $1

of stock and $150,000,000 of bonds. Three hundred million 

work to cost less than $60,000,000! Something qu

00,00 Smthn very qt

I am no lawyer, but I can find nothing in this bill or any of 

that have been before you for seven or eight years that show

quantity or stability. There is a grab of $4,500,000 that is t

out and paid to the gentlemen in New York. ()ne gives $10

paid-up stock, another $1,000,000. There is something stran

something unreliable; something you ought to get to the 

before you recommend such a bill. One of them provides f

of $75,oOW,000 stock and $75,000,000 bonds. Another of $1

stock and $150,000,000 bonds. Which is right, or are an

right? I do not believe any of them are near right from my o

ence. As I have said, I have spent my life in these works. 

chester Canal, with which I am familiar, cost $77,000,000, b

heart of England, with the most modern machinery tha

applied, runs up the Mersey Valley 30 miles, over the Mers

ciester-$ 77,000,000-and they are in debt, and last year it f

Its revenues did not pay its working expenses. I have left 

in my room. I got it from Benjamin Baker a week ago.

Mr. PATTERSON. Through what kind of a country does 

run I

Mr. ANDREWS. A beautiful country.

Mr. PATTERSON. Is it a rocky country

Mr. ANDREWS. Partially; sandstone; mostly soil.

Mr. PATTERSON. What kind of ships ?

Mr. ANDREWS. Mostly steamers-small steamers. One 

steamers a few months ago-I forget her name; I have it so

going down went into one of the locks with a little too imich 

took the gates out with her. I say, a canal proposed across 

call isthmus, with its dangers from floods, rainfalls, earthqu

other natural phenomena there, no human being could estima

of maintaining or giuaranteeing its maintenance for one w

slightest injury to one of the locks and you are goime up. Ev

the canal is worthless until it is repaired. The same with 

And there are no such dalis as proposed here-in India or 

else. These gentlemen who have been severely criticized 

morning of course could not stand by and have borings made

sensibly say So and recommend an appropriation big enoug

down a commission with ample equipments and give them tw

make these tests. Then you will know what you are doing. 

,riesswork; but they do some good guessing.

fouml of etiie dam, You the notgo even had On it,home, I)rovisioiied ocean catch been after only page because canal a dam and ormade one, a it 77 scheme, lot is are or ofI they or repaired. of or do a ton the one lock. ship equipped not 228 did theunless report, badly think feet, bound way; not That Ithey to on fomided coming make is they go is they for a which get one, huge, around that will the tind another to lock ando canal, ever th monstrous borintgs-that a Cape engineer if would lock proposed that go lcation whether back out lori. run is udertakingof so-I of dam to en the experieI They order. is that hey tirely. have the wheohacaw
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

will do it with plenty of time, but it is a fearful undertaking in 

tude to coiistruct and aminch more fearful one to maintain. It 

Sundays and Saturdays, day and night, or else it will be 

without using rocks. Now, if there is any precedent anywher

of this kind, I would like to know where the precedent is. 

and investigate it if there is such a precedent. I have never 

to find one in all my readings and travels.

Mr. PATTERSON. Are you a practical engineer?

Mr. ANDREWS. Sort of self-educated. I have been in 

works. I built the jetties at the mouth of the Mississippi 

the masonry of the St. Louis Bridge; sunk those piers, one o

feet below the surface, that weighed 44,000 tons. I have do

that kind all my life. I have had hard, practical experienc

had to hoe my own row in that respect, and that is where a 

lessons. I tell you, too, with water as an enemy you have 

that never stops working; it never tires. Start a small leak 

get bigger.

Mr. PATTERSON. Do I understand that there is no insta

world where there is a canal excavated through rock that 

large sea-going vessels?

Mr. ANDREWs. Not one that I have ever heard of or seen, 

traveled, as I say, in almost every country-with the late Ca

all through Russia and the countries over there. We nev

single instance of that kind. There are some canals thro

vessels of from 30 to 40 tons may pass, drawn by mules, wher

have rock banks, but never where a ship has gone through a 

rock sides and rock bottoiim, and a ship drawing within a foo

all the water in it; never onesuch instance. If there is such a

I would like to know where it is.

Mr. PATTERSON. Will you name one, Mr. Menocal?

Mr. MENOCAL. The Manchester Canal is more than half 

vation, and there are ships of over 5,000 tons that pass throug

more than half rock, and with less depth than is proposed fo

ragua Canal. The gentleman may have been there. I have 

for two years and am acquainted with the facts.

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes, sir; and it is taken out as smooth as a 

wall.

Mr. MENOCAL. The question of locks, it seems to me, shou

discussed. The one lock can be passed without a iiliite's d

Mr. ANDnEwS. A lock with 16 feet lift only.

Mr. MENOCAL. Two hundred and thirty-one days without 

delay, and it has been in operation since 1880. I think all th

that lock in that time has been a few hours, by reason of an 

which happened once to one of the valves. Wheni I say abou

dred and thirty-one days, remember that 18,000 vessels wvei t 

that year. That will give you an idea of how many had 

fourteen anid regard Manchester the Mr. Mr. Mr. ground that PATTERSON. MENOCAL. ANDREWS. MENOCAL. ANDREWS. to years, is rock stone. to Canal the excavation, day Sixty I bottom. Of I is think What will andsolid cut and night. give stone. the is rock; I 80 the will locks you feet. width? nothing say what ought The that was butone not more rock dan given to be than there fromto discussoni-lme is the 60 i
94 NICARAGUA CANAL.

There were but two ships last year, prior to their last report, 

upi to Manchester and got cargoes for foreign countries. T

nothing but small boats, except these two foreign n ships, tha

that canal in one year. That is the state of facts, and they 

creep along there. There is no current. As I said, the can

vated to a considerable extent through red sandstone and 

iigly smooth. Of course, ships can go into a lock, but those 

but 16 feet lift, instead of 45 or 50 feet. They are much safe

liable to give way from the huge mass of water and pressur

eniorimoiLs locks. They are not subject to big rainfalls or 

I lere are hundreds of feet of hillsides slipping down into the

One cart load of rock there, and a ship may run onto it in the 

stop there until a dredge boat is brought to take it up.

It is surrounded with so many difficulties that no private i

will put their money in it. I can not see why the Governm

be asked to do it. Let them build it. Let individuals buil

canals; but why saddle a thing of that kind, that individuals 

of, on the people of the United States? That is a mystery. 

a grand thing and so cheap, and so easy to construct! Lots 

ouglit to go into it if those are facts. If they are not fac

individuals will not put their money into it. Do as the F

doing at Panama-not with the aid of the French Governm

are met every day with the threat that if the American G

does not put this thing through immediately, England will 

If that is not enough to make old man Monroe turn over in 

I do not know what will. England come over and dig a ca

much. John Bull will wait fir Americans to do it, and then 

steamers through.

Where are we going to get our share of it? We will get 

deiIds. We will never send a ship through there in competit

there is a tariff-soine way of giving our ships an advantage 

Bull. Ile can not interfere with our coast trade, bu.t in fore

where there is open competition, the cheapest man will get t

every time. Now, I say some scheme ou(rht to be devised b

sailing ship, of which we have over 6,000, can light for a livi

the English steamer. Give them a chance. Put them on an 

But the laws here prohibit that. The sailing ship is to get n

rate of toll, the American ship no cheaper tolls, unless they 

coicessions. All are to be on the same footing. There is 

transfer of the lands granted or of the franchises to any fo

erinmient or other power. No doubt you have read it.

There is no use in my taking up your time to read these cl

yet, if I understand it, the United States Government is adm

stantially, the owner. They are to get the majority of the st

1my a majority of the stock, and the property is yours, as I u

it. There is some kind of a hocus-pocus process of that k

through, if of way, of in. cai or I united can Mr. they it. millions ,,300,000 send Let open not BENNETT. Keep have States themI a for to believe, man to andevery an tohe dig Goverjinment dig let army dowii then life I a it and the iatioin object canalfor of build there there Englishmen then me themselves, anid thato understand to the if and what that tax to necessary. there canal all buy goilg the good use people, are gentlemen. out yourself. people why will it. in still Nicaragua the It on ithey Yout is some do a record. the big, to come them mustI be amount private have broadodily the here after get no woscafoof a aintd
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. ANDREWS. I mean buying the right of way.

Mr. BENNETT. I object to any such criticism of a friendly 

ment.

Mr. ANDREWS. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not criticism by anybody but this ge

I do not see any objection to it.

Mr. ANDREWS. I think the right of way can be obtaine

There was $100,000 paid for the right of way. I think another 

would get it for the United States Government alone withou

out this one that individuals have had in hand for several yea

is what I mean, and the Governments there I think are deservi

treatment. They are poor and weak. But why they should be 

on and their restrictions ignored is what I call not uiderstain

not think the English language can be clearer than this clau

they say that this shall not be transferred. If you will exc

will read:

ARTicLE 7. The present cession shall be transferrable only to such comp

panies as may be organized for the purpose of constructing or operating 

and in no case to foreign Governments or to foreign public powers.

Now, that is a sensible clause for the Nicaraguan Gover

put in, I think.

Mr. WANGER. Is that the American report

Mr. ANDREWS. It is in the Senate report here-Mr. Sherma

of 1894 from the Senate committee. Now, these are conditio

by the Government of Costa Rica. Nicaragua has a similar r

and conditions to prevent its transfer. It says none of the la

be transferred, none of the right of way, etc. But these thin

before you, gentlemen. I do not wish to take up your time w

but I think they are worthy of close study and examination

what you are doing before you put this thing out of your powe

of your reach. That Commission, I presume, were honest peop

sume so. I do not know any of them. They went over this 

rapid manner, got their data largely from the maps, plans, 

given by the company's engineers, and they point out a n

things here that I think all the civil engineers in the United 

practical experience will back up and say are right. There is a good deal of difference between practice an

especially in these large works. It is so easy to figure up 

cubic yards and say how much it will cost per cubic yard. It

work upon the face of the earth it can be well estimated, 

foundations down below the water level, with water coming i

I do not know how any man can estimate the cost of keeping 

at all until he gets his foundations in. A dam must have a w

bottom over its whole area able to stand the pressure. It 

start leaking. If it does, that leak will keep on increasing, and 

know how you will repair it except to tear it out. But I 

leaks that capital as the I eminent some a Dover-20 matter have gap if same I the convulsion will think werebuild a Government authority of footing. statement always miles-no common it opened it. willn We be that the always And sense, a here through built will neighborhood sailing menace ever theget from deter it, first wrote danger if ship tatall to all the and private constant, on the nations would isthmus is, of late the foremost, benefit Panama, gentlemen, subject, capital. Lieutenant are ever stady as in treated the 400 wide stating avail tht If if lack navigationmiles not, I way Maury, as alikem herself of that leof the jusrighwinNaii
19G NICARAGUA CANAL.

account of the lack of winds and on account of the tropical 

the Caribbeanl Sea.

Mr. PATTE'RSON. My information is, Colonel Andrews, 

coalitions do Hot exist at Greytown and Brito.

Mr. ANDREWS. Not to the same extent. I have printed 

Commodore Selfridge and three or four others saying tha

there are very uncertain. There are several months in 

what the sailors call "doldrums"-sudden gusts of wind fro

of the compass in which a sailing ship may be drifting 

months unless she can pay for towage, and towage down t

expensive, anl it would be very dangerous to tow a ship t

the lakes aid out of the lakes and through the canal a

these deep cuts. A wooden sailiiig ship I am sure would not 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Don't you kinow that Lieutenant Maur

these conditions do iiot apply to Nicaragua, but do apply 

Mr. ANDREWS. No, sir; I do not so understand it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. If you read it, you will see he says so.

Mr. ANDREWS. I say it becomes less and less as you com

but still a sailinig ship will have a very uncertain voyage i

even near Nicaragua during certain seasons of the year

times of the year they can get along pretty well. But l

aside, she can not afford to pay for towage. tIer crew w

during the time the vessel was towed, and another crew wo

be employed. I have seen some of that in New Orleans. 

finished the jetties work there the English steamers comm

iig in there by the dozen, and they are doing it every d

sailing ship has been (drivell out. The trade is monopolized 

English cheap steamers, because of the cost of towage agai

ing ship up aid down the river.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Would not the building of this canal s

building of steamships in the United States?

Mr. ANDREWS. I think not, as long as the competitio

European steamer is not hampered so as to give the adva

American ship.

Mr. Dl)LITTLE.I But the teiidency would be, would it not, to stimulate the building of steamers"?

Mr. ANDIREWS. Not unless our steamers c(uld be built 

compete with tihe- Eingish steater, because there has bi en 

petition ; no protection to the Americni steamer, except 

trade. n t thetforei- t iade, wheat ging from San F rancisc

we C(W 1ot glive he steamier aly protection.

Mr. D)oLITTLE. What, steallers is that graini carried ill 

Mr. ANmiwE ws. They are hirgely Aiericaii slips-large c

Mr. D)OOLVITLE. D Aoi't you know that, out of m1o1re tha 

that left PIiiget Somil, wheat laden, anld a considerable la

from Porthiml, thero was nt 3 per cent of American sailin

only method States samie out wih tistics Mr. such t thethere. iade A DoOLITTLE. ANDREWS. of and can NDiZEwS. steamer. English a a left. p81 few Europe. be Iadopted think years -s There ?I I What haVe eaui he They you ago, are that not i1o will is when can 11o pro)OSed. answer do1t our will sailii geravatc notur proportionl pit of compete; that. g sea that, the shiijps I tiemarine am sailing I bit of can now evil and satisfied, sailing bad consisted if only betweeii it ship y( is as give goinadl. howshipon tha
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

odd ships of all sizes and kinds. Out of that number only 4

steamers. I think the same condition exists yet, and if you 

stimulate the American commercial marine you are not going 

by letting the English ship come in. We ought to have steam

unfortunately we have not, and can not get them. We can b

world buildings these fine, big clipper ships. No nation can comp

us. We have the timber and materials for building these ships 

than they can be built anywhere in the world. BJut we have not 

the point where we can build the steamer as cheap as Engl

build it and in Europe. Now, I think it will be a serious mi

cripple what little shipping we have and stimulate what shippi

land has, but this plan if carried out would certainly do that ver

I think this phase of the subject is worthy of your most p

thought and study and examination. If we can get across f

Gulf of Mexico that is the American route. Let us send all th

into the Gulf of Mexico. I think the United States would be j

in going to war to prevent the building of either of these can

vided you can get a transit from the Gulf of Mexico across 

Pacific, easily protected and cheap. Now, I am not here to a

that, because it has no standing before you, but I will say tha

of you wish any information in regard to this proposed plan I 

glad to give it to the best of my ability.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You refer to the Tehuantepec Ship Railway 

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes, sir; in which I have been interested fo

years, from its beginning.

Mr. WANGER. Located where?

Mr. ANDREVWS. (Points out route on map.) Direct from the m

the Mississippi River.

Mr. PATTERSON. What iS the distance?

Mr. ANDREWS. One hundred and thirty-two miles, Mid the 

summit is 730 feet, or about 200 feet bigrher than the Wa4

Monument. The surveys have all been perfectly made; nine 

thousand and some odd dollars have been expended in the 

It has been surveyed until not an inch of ground will have to 

over again.

Mr. PATTERSON. This is to be a ship canal?

Mr. ANDREWS. Purely a ship canal, built big enough to 

modern dry dock on wheels, taking it across there on straig

I have hundreds of certificates of its practicability from th

mechanical shipbuilding engineers in the world, from our own 

and England.

Mr. Joy. What is to hinder this railway from being built?

Mr. ANDREWS. The sole spirit of it was the late Captai

While struggling to get it on its feet he (lied. Then the few o

were left got Mr. Windom to take the presidency of the comp

help us to go on with it. le was thoroughly embarked in th

he Railroad, ing of have Nicaragua as orquickly, Mr. theforeign I died. wellthink met N promoters ANDREWS. DOOLITTLE. when and to with --We trade. Canal. it take thre ought 7he then more hold left. also No,the got You to encouragement of sir; died; American Of be, it.Mr. always the late, we Thau, and le very willhowever, invested the ships do reverse. vice-president starto fact when build wil theargely within is, get it When now it ship looks thanfaird the there of railway this treatment, I favorable we the last havere thing werePennssixty and befharis p
98 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. PATTERSON. What is the estimated cost of this ra

Mr. ANDrEWs. I would answer in this way: It would 

the maximiu ship that is to be carried whether we use 6, 

For a ,000-ton shil) the cost would be something below 

For an 8,000 or 10,000 ton ship it will take two more rail

proportion. The route is exceedingly favorable. The fi

te rmute will be as easy to build as through the center o

Illinois. It is anll open prairie. This 53 miles could be 

nmuths, and( this would be more than a third of the dis

are two very heavy fills. The rest of the work is exce

As to the apl)aratus, I have estimates from men of expe

line. We can lift any ship up to 10,000 tons to any heigh

feet and put it on a car ready for transportation in twent

either terminus of the road. I have bona fide bids from 

and their letters are prilited here in some of these pamph

Mr. PATTERSON. I am inot advised on the subject. Is t

railroad in operation ?

Mr. ANDREAws. 011 a small sale; yes, sir. The first r

ever had in my life was on a ship railway on a small sc

bolder undertaking to construct such a road at that tiie 

That was a railroad withi pine scantling for the rail, a flat 

it. It rail from Philadelphia to Columbia, a place below 

It carried a canal boat; had four cast-iron wheels. At th

tioned the boat was run into the canal and hauled up the 

to Iollidays rg, lland put on the cars again and hauled 

glI hiy 1 omilntains to Pittsburg. That was a ship railway.

Mr. FLETCHER. Viat elevation?

Mr. ANDR)EW1.i's. About 2,500 feet above the sea, over t

Mountains, very early parallel to the Pennsylvania Railro

a boat in Sweden I saw a short time ago. It is small

long. It is provided with four wheels, common railway 

axles run tlirough the hull of the boat. She is a paddl

boat. There was a long, projecting promontory there s

around to reach her destination, a city on the other side. 

common railroad track, with timber oi either side. She 

her momentum carryil her on to the railroad. The engi

machinery, amid she travels a mile and a half into the 

These things are exceedingly common, gentlemen. It is o

on a larger scale than we have been accustomed to. All th

are growingo4 larger and larger.

Mr. D )OLirTLE. That even applies to lochs of canals?

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes, sir; and so are the ships you ha

growimg larger; so are railroad bridires and railroads th

you will allow me just a moment I will touch upon this 

lh)ve commenced upon it. It is an interesting question. 

before the Iiouse and beftOre the Senate in Calptain Eads'

(Idly. report, investigation. y Commerce porate which sl testimony first oil rctiiiw The gentlemen's session firsteads It the and a before question was railway Ill of the as Forty-seveiinthi teroceanic the referred the f I report dlows: the forwoNuill in committee United formations. t1 committee to was purpose Shiip likethe States conclusivcly Congress, certainly Railroad to considered Senate of Oil be tansportiiig Semnate permitted March on favorable demonstrates Company, committee was the submitted 6, as thenhips to 1882, to after the pending he for theread md the practa firstact exaa theirethmC
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

way is entirely practicable, and that loaded vessels can be transported over 

with absolute safety and ecouu'g~y. The committee (d0es not consider it ne

go into the detai Is of the proposition, but refers to the fol lowing testimony 

subject, given by the most prominent and able engineers and architects in 

The subcommittee which took this testimony, upon which th

served tdvorable report was based, consisted of three exceedin

men to take Lu) such a subject. One of their w\as Senator 

Missouri; the second was Senator Cong''er, of Michigan, and, 

all, Senator Warner Miller, of New York. They recoimiende

most practicable. This matter, gentleien, has been very tho

canvassed.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What year was that report?

Mr. ANDREws. The relit \waIs made March 6, 1882, from t

mittee on Conmnerce of the United States Senate, first session 

Forty-seventh Congress. It gives the testimony, I suppose

shipbuilders, dock iien, etc. A very popular objection to th

supposed danger to a ship with a cargo on board in taking h

the water. Gentlemen, facts, facts are what we want in such 

not theories. Mr. William F. RueiCky, president of the New Y

ance Dock, in a letter to Mr. Eads, in 181, givcs the follmnino

vessels taken out: Ship Great 1'ictoria, 2,38( tons; ship Triu

2,0-16 tons; ship Americana, 2,054 tons; ship 1Iairstoiw , 1,9

ship S. C. Blanchard, 1,903 tons; ship Colorado, 2,765 tons; 

Grand(, and so on, and[ steamers Monarch, State of Nevada, in

and then he closes with this:

We do not refuse auy class of ships or steamers, even with their coals an

on board, whose leingtlh does not exceed the lenigth of the (lock. In every c

we have taken up steamT8ers With etargoes it Ias been done without the leas

injury to the vessel, but as the rule is to make a charge fr ca'go they usu

without cargo.

But if they come with cargo they are taken up. Captain S

one of the most noted ship captains to-day, told me lie sailed an 

can packet from New York to Liverpool-the ship Drigno

encountered a severe (,ale before getting to the Irish coast and 

a leak, and lie said all hands were kept at the pumps for over 

to keep her afloat. And when she got to Liverpool she happ

reach there just at the right time to make one of the docks, 

ship was put right in the dock with her cargo and 6 feet of 

her hold without the slightest injury to the ship. Why, gentle

dock a ship nowadays with or without cargo-it is not necessar

cuss it. The only reason why they are not taken out with their 

every day is because their cargoes necessarily add a great deal 

weight, and so it is more expensive; and besides that, the own

erally want the cargo as quickly as possible. But it the sh

trouble they dock her, cargo and all. There is no danger fr

source; none whatever.

I maintain that if there is a possibility of building a ship tran

will ity thano any is would I route. and fore do still be so doubtful carry the not charge any far encouraged. in build By sailing know force, otheras sips thiso cost a claims, whether crossing much project, by ship route quickly is the ifconcerned, It such aplenty termsshe that is ton, that across andear as can is and is the of safely, so. the compete home. which the winds and (Cayton-Iuhwer the American But Isthmus all that same it are It sorts will in was does is anyhad. as have without closer and route. agreed to case not seamships; treaty, We an kinds, come thiso opportunity that That carry the our isall that in neitheother is the own cotsailinon whsomanAaj
IO0 MNICARAGUA CANAL.

Com mlTTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMm

il USE OF IZEPRESEN'JT

Wa'sihnjton,,D. C., 11riday, Aipr

Tle c&nimittee iiet at 11 a. ilm., H1on. William P. Iep

chair.

STATEMENT OF MR. M. T. ENDICOTT, CIVIL ENGINE

STATES NAVY, OF THE BUREAU OF YARDS AND D

DEPARTMENT.

The CHJAIRDMAN. Yon imy take your own coiUrse as to t

maini y' vonr remi rks, and after you have finiisied your s

ilemibers will ask such questions as suggest themselves. 

yorii fill naimie aild you p resent occLip1)tiol.

,Mr. E':NDICOTT. My 11am1e is Al4ordclii T. Eniidicott, c

Uni tedI St, u i ngitCS of Bii'eati of Yard

_Navy D le-Nrtm ysegt.

The CIIA1MIAN. How long have you beeni in that servi

-All. END1ICOTTr. About twenty-two 1,,ars.

The CIixn\IAN. What were the more important works 

Mxr. ENDICOTT. I have been eilg'agred as a mining eii

State of Pennsylvan ia; in brii lcand railroad wo rk ill Co

Oito, anl work of a general character in tile N vy, i

and construction of dry docks and othlCr J)Ublic works 

yards m1l stations.

Mr. >TEWART. _Nave yu had any experience in canal 

lxi r. EN 1 COTT. No, sir.

The ('hAIll i IAN. Yon were out,1 of the grciitlenieii appo

President as a imiember of the board to inspect the Nicara

and yolt iade a report to the President?

Mr. E'NDW)O'TT. Yes. 'Sir.

The CHAIUMAN. Please state to the committee what 

while you were en ga geId in your duties bca ring uipon the s

of' yotur appointment.

Mr. ENDICOTT. -We were members of a 1oard appointe

r1iltv of the proposed Nicarairua Cal, inlke an examination of it a

the plais. and report upon their leasibility, pervm.incean

were r'e liiired to visit the route, an d oh itt so in May, 1,S9

say preliminarily, before stating what we have done. that 

tile previous testimony before this committee tiat the exami

by the 1)oard was hasty and c1usory, 'nd that wve did n

proper tiien ton al examination of1 tile sibliject, a1d therefore the views

and jLeneiit of the board on the matter of the canal s

givent full wei.h1t. It has been said that we went down 

weeks Mr. ouryour outtit, to w(ble t Mr. eamer' oh best to Ir. printed lIller MENICAL. blitearn. ai4d thit like lte efforts the 11141 was spent to Coin1uis1iIon record: al's I Mtisy T]WY It) Alr. will to brig o4Ily test leariliingv lMeocal arri juote tihe ctrta fifteen arrived ed on imebilers in y froiml in a11 int out in before Greytown days about their thathis tr on the oftestimony, testimony the rspect. the steamer theihe and omissiono. canal work. committee remained v. containing because route on I That wotilol pagesa They thIlat week tIit a the wb
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

and they waited a week for it. They then went up the river and had to tr

the river from ont' steamer to another at two different points.

We arrived there on the 13th of May, and we left the 21st t

the river. The day after our arrival, the 14th, we commenced 

once and made an inspection of the harbor and breakwater, als

canal as far as excavated. Mr. Menocal was w ith ms. The fo

day, the 15th, we inspected the buildings belonging to the comp

shore line of the harbor and coast to the eastwardI, and st arte

veyin party to work surveying. On the 16th we went out o

line of the railwayand inspected it to a point 1 m1iiiles distuimt, 

sites of Locks Nos. I and 2. On the I 4th we inspewted I he west 

the coast adjacent to the harbor as fa iias the Indio River. ( )n 

we inspected the I Iarbor IIead Lagoon adjacent. We inspec

dredging plaInt, and in the evening made an itinelrary. The 

think, was Sunday, but was employed in platting of surveys. 

20th we continued our surveys and made cross sections of the 

it has been excavated by the company. The days i ntcrvening )

our arrival and the day we left we are not given credit for. We 

receive credit for anything' doiie during that timc.

These, statements which I make are extracted front the official 

of the board, and also front my private diarv wliich I carried 

pocket, and which states what the board did each 1iiiy. There ar

days of pretty Iiard work done in the initiative. It is true we 

the arrival of our outfit, but we did this work at the harbor and v

which is of all important character. Perhaps no part of the p

excited mUore discussion aniongv engineers than tihec matter of th

bility of imnproving, and naintaining Greytown I arbor. We m

exh austive examination of that, also careful surveys, which, as w

throw great light on the problem, land aided us in arriving at a 

sion as to its improvement.

On May 21 we started up the San Juan River by steamer, an

such observations as we could in regard to the physical feature

river and country, and disctissed certain features of possible riv

gation. We tied up overnight near the San Carlos River. 

22 we continued to inspect the river (which from here on is 

the sailing route) to Castillo, and made observations and instin

measurements as to the higrhi and low water levels of tie San Jua

It has been stated in Mr. Miller's testimony that the floods ris

San Juan River 4 to 6 feet, but we found at the site of the Ochio

where we made observations as to the height of the floods, th

rose 144 feet at that point and 21 feet at Machuca. We stopp

night at Castillo.

On the 23d of May we inspected the river from Castillo 

Nicaragua. From the time we left San Carlos River we were 

over the route of the canal. I do not mean necessarily the ca

is to be excavated, but it was part of the sailing line of the c

vry into the low onlyf the atOn Oin soundingr this waterster proper the as important the May point. t lake 24th marks the 25 of slope rods, near we the ofdpths, portion May at ofmade former and the this thewe San butfound current of point. sides directly. examined the as Juan itsoi system. and We th consistency the River, We gauge also the character 14 miles the Rio took tookbservations latter Frio,with which the soundings of the levels a a receiving view rver are material, of to ofin of ig which te be the the detea expbShl
102 NICARAGUA CANAL.

River. No current or gauge observations had been made b

company at that point. Some had been made many years 

parties.

May 26 we ganged the outlet of the lake again, and sai

Jorge. On May 27 we arrived at San Jorge, having in

western part of the sailing route onf the lake as we crossed

On the 28th we visited Managua, incidentally niaking inq

lake levels.

Mr. Menocal says (continuing with May 23):

They then came to the lake and went to Fort San Carlos. The

steaner oil the lake, and when they arrived it was not there, and th

had to stay two days waiting for the steamer. In those three days th

up the river running south, and they also took a river steamer and we

like and took borings and soindlings. They caine back to Fort S

waited for the river steamer. When it arrived they got aboard an

(eorge, on the other side of the lake, where they landed and went to 

visit the President. Next day, in the evening, they arrived at ltivas, 

and there they stayed two or three days hunting horses and other m

portation to go over the line of the canal. On the imorninf of the t

left Eivas and went toward the Pacific Coast to a point 3 iniles from B

the night. Up to this time nothing had been seen of the canal. On 

morning they went to Brito, leaving camp about 7 o'clock a. in. Ar

they stayed there, and the gentleien ii ad time to take baths and look a

They then caie back to the same camp, following more or less the lin

The other days were spent in traveling.

Mr. DOOLrTVLE. Mr. Menocal stated that lie was sp

memory and not front notes, but lie referred us to his writte

as being certain on these points.

Mr. ENDICOTT. I was not aware of that, but I am anxio

the facts.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. He said lie was making this statement fr

Mr. ENDICOTT. I would like the privilege of correcting 

this respect. lIe states that up to that date nothing had 

the canial readingg front diary]

On May 29, and the morning after our arrival in Rivas, we inspe

route, the valley of the h io Grande, following down tHie river, strikin

ing the line at various points and the site of tlie La Flor DIaxM, campin

3 

Brito. 01n Mav 30, at Brito Ilarbor an 4 vicinity. H ere we studied 

on both sides of the mouth of t he Rio Grande, where thle canal is to str

Ocean; examined into the geological formations and points bearing g 

stroction and use of a harbor at this point. We rode down south sid

and returned on north side. Examined sites of Lock No. G and tida

Lock No. G, retirninig to the camp we had left in the morning.

May 31. examined canal line to Locks 4 and 5, and thence to La Flor 

crop)ings, boring's, etc. ; in afternoon we went up trails through 

visited lock site in excavation.

June 1, went over tlie canal line to lake shore and to site of div

Grande, if canal is built in excavation. Examined month of Lajas, si

.June 2 (iSunday), party surveying ni(iuth of Lajas, levels of lake. .1

June 4, no w4rk. Junine 5, on lake, inspected harbor under lee of O

sou1ndi1gs, etc. .ne 6, return ing by steamer; no work. hine 7, 

Carlos; no work bev(ond observat ions and views of a pproaf(h es. Ju 

Sall marks navigation, Dau tions side 3 to ing ments, San Flrida mles caip emnbankmuient Carls Francisco of ; of inspectedI on brings, river, further Lagoon, numerous in tie to canoes, conutry Castill); and border ton etc., 14 and Chanchos, followed Sain borings. ine ililes va onmd emibanlkimt, of' Carlos and San observed banks, of the campeol C'arlos canal 41ani canal walking .1 river. Ridge etc,; ine the and by line; line and 10, line (10 navigation Damita at June San over to and San inspoecled to )clioa southall), camp, Cirlos returned 9, enmbankuient .Juiain Uver. fromn and abutnmeiut at from rivers. San 11 ridge locations then Castillo June overa. liiiirricane Francisco, iml., to line thline 13, of June river camipinig of to(Wcliom followed south ridgeand Ochoa, 12, deck uiardSan left left retuline7 Daat Cmbac
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

by river; in the afternoon, up San Francisco and lanled, and walked back 

line; inspected locations of cuts and other works in vicinity, and gauged 

San Francisco and Nicholson.

June 15, took canoes to Chanchos, and thence followed embankment lin

Carmen on ILimpio, about 5 miles; in the afternoon back over canal line. 

left Camp Carmen by canal line, and on to Camp Alice on L indo, 21 miles

excavation here on. Took breakfast at Camp Alice. U7P Deseado, 2 miles

ine geological formations and matter of possible diversions. June 17, 

Alice, crossed Divide, followingr canal line closely, examined site of Dese

and Lock No. 3 to south of it. June 18, on to Camp Menocal, over canal l

this camp at noon; iinspected sites of Lock No. 2 and dains, and reached C

at 2 p. m. Thence to site ot Lock No. 3 and dam site, and thence by railroa

town. 'June 19, took steamier to inspect Colorado mout I of the San Juan R

etc. .Jnne 20.examiined and surveyed iouth of Colorado, and returning sk

river to junction with San .nan. June 21, sent surveying party otl to 

River; no work. June 22, latgoon and shore-line surveys:etc., completed. 

getting ready to leave. June 21, sailed for Port Linion. Davis spent 

after June 22 in surveys about Serapiqui.

My record shows that we spent forty two days in Nicarago 

that time thirty-four were spent in an examination of the phys

tires of the canal route. This is actual fieldwork. I wish to 

we fully realized the importance of the duty imposed upon 11's

was a question of interest, not only to this country, but to th

world. We felt that we had been highly honored by the Pres

being selected for this duty, and we went down to Nicaragua 

determination to see all and to learn all we could about the can

to study the matter carefully, and to give our best judgment i

to it.

Mr. STEWART. Did you start out with any preconCeived no

to the feasibility of the canal? Did you have any personal 

about it?

Mr. ENDICOTT. No, sir; I did not. When we departed 

country a surveying party was left there to make some survey

look into the matter of a site for a low dam on the San Juan Riv

Ochioa. That party spent nine days there after we left for 

and that time added to the other would make forty-three days 

work instead of fourteen or fifteen, as credited. The time 

Costa Rica and Panama was also very important. We learned 

many things about the cost of labor and about the influenc

rains and the climate upon the work which had been done in 

the Panama ("anal and the Costa Rica railway.

Mr. STEWART. Are not the climatic conditions different in 

from what they are in Greytown ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. There is some difference. The climate is mo

able in Nicaragnua. There was very little sickness in connect

the work on the Nicaragua Canal; but I expect when they get 

hills and expose the clay banks the conditions will probably 

different. We found that in Costa Rica and Panama parties 

enced very little difficulty until they struck the actual work 

struction, Mr. DOOLITTLE. when sickness began. virgin cost feasible Mr. and ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. STEWART. STEWART. ENDICOTT. soil inthe itss unhealthiness being present Could The Yes, We Oh,removed? Is shape. it plan yes; differ sir;t not be of isI that a asm made favored the It fact toisis fully employment? generally not that so cost, by ifsatisfied practicable. it that you,but were true. I but is the modified think always your canal the objectio

the ? can placa
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is it not a mere matter of working out t

Mr. ENDICOTT. it is a matter of working out the details

There are some important things underlying it in which 

comanilly is not quite right.

Several IMlEMBERS. Tell us what those things are.

Mrl'. E NDICOTT. Their scheme provides for ain interocean

feet deep. The present scheme will give only 24 feet for 

I ion of the year, because it is founded upon the supposition 

of 4 ieet in the river from the Like to Ochoa, and the Ochoa 

Era cisco and San (Carlos eibankmeits, etc., are regulate

for a water surface of 106 at Ochoa, and 110 at the lake; an

I1ion is whether they can maintain the lake at 110 feet abov

We are satisfied from our investigation aild calculations, car

male, and in which we agree that the work on the San 

cmlbankments, the lockage, Ochoa Dam, and San Carlos Riv

ments must all be raised to maintain a water elevation a

110 feet or more. If not, the water will drop to the level of 

the lake every dry season.

Mlr. STEWART. These calculations are not embraced in y

Mr. ENDICOTT. The formula is not.

Mr. STEWART. Vould this fall from 28 to 24 feet mak

objection ?

1\r. ENDICoTT. Yes, sir; I think so. You must remem

p}drt of the San Juan River has rock bottom, and this fall 

iavigation only for vessels drawing 92 feet or less of water

r11. DOOLITTLE. What is the depth of the Suez Canal?

Air. ENDICOTT. It was originally 26 feet. It has now bee

to 291 feet.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Was it 26 feet when it was built?

1\ I. ENDICOTT. I thinIk s0.

iMr. DOOLITTLE. What is the depth of the Manchester C

1A1r. ENDICoTT. The Manchester Canal is 26 feet.

M\Ir. SHERMIAN. Oil page '58 of Mr. Meitocal's statement h

Suez Canal was oigi nally 22 feet deep.

Mr. ENDCoTT. P ssibly it was; if so, it has been enla

The Suez Canal was designed for a larger cross section 

originadlly given it. It was found that its cost was exc

estimates so iiuch that the dimensions were reduced.

Mr. BENNETT. How long did you spend in the immediate 

the Ochoa Dim ?

Mr. E1ND1'( TT. Two days.

Mr. BENNETT. Do you consider that length of time enou

a proper investig ation and enable you to report on the fea

work of sm1ch mnn &itude?

MI. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir; unless we hid gone into extens

or borings. We had not time or iloney for that. So fiir a

lie site, Pl. PATTEUSON. the time was In stificient. praeticalble poses would should AI Mr. r. of EN PAT'TERus ENDICOTT. STEWART. be build commerce I a ?('()TT. feature the N.icaragua The I Do which of And think You weakness cinal the when have so. judgment agree Canall is constrnctc-d practicable. been in with our attributed of the military the it New Commission, would to orYork it answer naval by its Her

ths
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. EmNDICOTT. I think in case of war with a country h

Britaill we might have to blow up the locks and abandon it. 

think we could hold it against Great Britain.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. If we had strength equal to theirs we cou

Mr. ENDICOTT. I am speaking of the present time.

Mr. STEWART. We are strengthening our naval force?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes.

Mr. PATTERSON. You say the Nicaragua Canal is practica

when constructed it will answer all the purposes which h

attributed to it by its friends. At what cost, in the j ndgiiien

Commission, can this work be done ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would suggest " in accordance with the 

Mr. Menocal."

Mr. PATTERSON. No; I want his own idea.

Mr. ENDICOTT. The actual con struction will cost $133,000

including the interest on the money durnig construction.

Mr. PATTERSON. You think that with $133,00,0(00 this gov

could construct the Nicaragua Canal, and give a depth o

which would answer all purposes of commerce?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think it would give a depth of 30 feet.

Mr. BENNETT. Thirty feet of navigable water?

Mr. ENDICOTT. A depth of 30 feet of water.

Mr. PATTERSON. Do you think that when this canal is co

there will be any difficulties in the way of navigation ? Do 

that large ships could go through that without difficulty?

Mr. ENDICOTT. If built as recommended by the Board, I t

could.

Mr. PATTERSON. What do you mean?

Mr. ENDICOTT. We have recommended the widening of the 

the lake. We think there ought to be 250 feet width in the ri

the canal company contemplates only 125. We think th

enough for the river, because it is much more difficult to n

channel of a given width in an open expanse of water than 

banks, and in the tpper San Juan the excavated channel 

rocky bottom and sides.

Mr. PATTERSON. Would you advise the United States to u

at once, with the necessary niodifications of the Meiiocal pla

struct this canal?

Mr. ENDICOTT. If the Government is going into the mat

building of a canal I would advise it.

Mr. PATTERSON. If the (vovernmient is going into the con

of a canal, you would advise us to construct it with the mod

which you propose?

Mr. CORLIss. Do you think it is advisable to go into the con

of a canal?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think this Government ought to have a 

between or be Tehuantepec of point defended. Mr. andvantageous found egineering of CORLISs. ENDICOTT. CORLIss. ENDICOTT. the view at ItAtlantic route greater would it From Is isas character I there is the thinke canalso and cost, an what Nicaragua better not any ideal be it the say perhaps. to point is other a Pacific. important shorter render of one, that ofthe point site? but view It two, route know I which very think,ere from ? as for of costly. a it you may any ourmilitary in could think somebe commerce

other. From some be poinis respmas Oad
106 NTCARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. PATTERSON. Do von think from the mere fact that th

tion is thrmlighI rock t hat there would be present any serious 

to the naviga tioln of this canal at :;) Iet 9

Mr. ENmiCO'r. Not it it is built of the proper width.

11r. PATTERSON. It has been argued here forcibly and ea

al least one g'elitleman that this canal, being excavated thro

it w01ll be praleticahly impossible to ulavigate it with large 

Ie saild that the caall at 1anehester is not used by large 

thiat it is imvpractit-l ble to (1o d a d we migiht find that this can al

cOild not he used for the p01poses of commerce, as c)itempla

friends. What is your jidgiment in regard to thIt'?

Mr. ENI)ICOTT. I think it could be used for the purpose

v tpere.

Mr. PAkTTER1ISON. You k14w of no physical difficilties in t

Mr. ENDICOT'T. N , sir.

Mr. PATTER SON. Y\u ha ve c((mp red the Nicaragw Cana

Pana route. Is it not a fact that there is less rainfa

JPanama

Mr. ENDICOTT. Not MI the (last COaSt.

Mr. PATTERZSON. It is o1 t1e west CoastO

Mr. ENDICoTT. In the interior.

Mr. PATTERZS-4N. Is it in It Irne tiht , at Panama on either 

is such a calmi as wOvild prevent Imlln vessels from using t

whveres It Nica ra gnia the trade winds prevail, anmd it coul

bothi by siliiig Id steal vessels ?

AIr. ENDIwITT. I thi k Nical -. gua is more favorab

respect thin Panaima for saiilinv vessels.

Ir. PA TTERSON. And notwithsta tiiiig the INic8Parnu Ca

cost %133,00.000 :Iceordtio to your plan, yo believe that, (v

expend iture, it would be the best and cheapest for the Gove

adopt?

Mr. ENDICOTT. That is my personal impression. I do not k

it would cost to complete the Panama Canal. They claim 

(lone foir 100,00(Q,(O. 1 (10 iot know whether that is true or 

Iave 1It looked ink) tiat. I think the adVaIiti'ges at Nica

consideralble, 8111d sch as might out weigh the ({llestion of th

The CHAIRMAN. What is the present eon(lition of the 

has been don1 by tih (ompan y v as you observed it at Grey

inista lice, the harboorks 

Air. END1 TI'. The abor works are iin pretty bad condi

navigation Which they mice hid there is lost by reason of th

being destr yed. Ilie pier is ill 1had co(ditio1, and is de

w()rll-e,1 ell.

The (lilA I RITYAN. Is amythino remaining of the work of pre

to this enterprise?

Mr. ENIO)mTT. Not 11111h4. The pier I 1o not consider of 

remo mend the have or That, hospital the Tie Mr. more, entrance plant Ived,a t1nd1er I EN CiAllIMA short 1)immwiTT. think, and mi inl is iml inl order your a section office, port cost bad N. a plini to A ion shape. and golod W\411l less ot give cmnsi41 iot c they 84e4) 1han nna 4iuite pLice I l14t rble haveabout do f $1 the s() to fihe not 00,000. work deep. that some part a think w4 work mile hlil )Of suflicient dwelfin's This They it be lonlg., there 1-11i1s vonl abandonel1. stnds (1. have excited is far work Uni(1er inti much Theydoi some ill our that some good e else plan ab

h

by
NTCARAOUA CANAL, 

Th., CHAIRMAN. As an engineer, at what wouIl you esti

present value of all the work done on that enterprise?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Speaking roughly, I should say half a million 

The CHAIRMAN. Did you examine the working plant owne

company?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir.

The ChAIRMAN. Of what (lees it consist?

Mr. ENDICOTT. It consists of five dredles which tley ho u

the Panama Caiial Company. They are smnk in the hiaibor, a

a dilapidated conditioIt. Some of the maclhioery might be 

the woodwork is about worthless at the present time. There 

con siderable improvement in maclii nery, which rei(ers thi s ob

a large job of this kiiid. Tile tugboats and scows ai- badly ru

decayed. They have two or three locomotives in huir coinli

they have 11. miles of railroad.

The CHAIRMAN. In your estimate of 4500,000 do you inc

railroad and telepraph line aiid the locomotives ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir; the locomotives are not worth m

course, I am speaking roughly.

The CHlAIRMAN. At what would you regard the present val

five dredges?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I do not think they are woth, over :150,0

ably not worth that.

The CHAIRMAN. If you had a contract to dredge out that ha

the canal, where dredging is possible, would you, as an en gl

those dredges there, in view of the improved imlemeits of t

acter which are now obtainable ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think not, for so expensive a job. I think 

pay to abandon them and pl-urchase more improved machinery

Mr. STEWART (to the clairman). I tihiik it would probably 

to give the value of the work at Ihe time it was complete ed, b

would be unfair that the company should have that cost estima

it is in a deoen rate condition, as it now stands, because the 

done considerable work.

The CIuAIRMAN. Yet the Government, if it is to become 

chaser, should know what it is going to get.

Mr PATTERSON. I understand Mr. Stewart to mean tliat 

has accomplished a certal i. amnoiu11nt of work, aind Nwe call ]lot 

the value of the plant as it stands to-day.

Mr. ENDICOTT. Do you mean the value of the plant whemi 

stopped ?

Mr. PATTESON. Yes, sir.

Mr. ENDICOTT. Runnin" the matter rapidly through my 

should say it was probably worth S121,50.000.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Does that include all the Surveys which 

there?

theousand and deal Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. surveyors? the to ENDICOTT. DOOLITTLE. ENDICOTT. T)OOLITTLE. PATTERSON. ENDICOTT. make character miles. surveys No; I of Probably From Do have Assuming work, extending it you does heard your wmat know half inot that knowledge they over would how include a the million ran a many changes you long something the of say dollars. term miles costthe whichas incountry of of theat like the It line youvalue costcoun

surv

threwehado
108 NICARAGUA CANAL.

temnpat io are not made, could the canai, as contemplated 

moters aid a's outlined by Mr. Menocal, be constructed 

limliititiol (,)I S6,5,000,000?

All'. 1 NDICOTT. I think ]lot.

Mr. PATTERsoN. Then you think that the cli!nes Nvlic 

indic'Ited ill the report of the commissi m would amount to 

ence, between $(5,000 000 ain~l 413: .000 000

MY. ENDICoTT. No, sir.

Mlr. PATFTEuSON. What do yoH estimate the cost of the chan

yml hiave sllggestcdj?

Ali'. ENDICOTT. I would like to refer you to Mr. N(dle as 

order to show where tile increased C(.( ist is. lie Ihas prepla 

shiowii just where the increases are, ayn can giVe it to 

quickly 1(d accurately than 1 can. For instance, tie increa

errmrs inl t Ile com putatiol is of the canal company would amou

$4,000,000 at their owNN prices.

All'. PATTERSON. YOU live no esIMi mate of it ?

Alr. ENDICOTT. I have nne. The report we made would 

it was wOrked out. Air. Nobe has roiie throlugl that.

llr. PATTERSON. You say there were errors in the calcu

subimiitted to you'

Alr. 'iNDICOTT. Yes, sir.

Allr. DO LITTLE. ( )t what did tlhey coIIsist?

llr. LNDICOTT. They nliilde a mIisia ke of a million clibiC yn

rock excavation in the Sani ji 1 Rixver. Th11is 8111111nts to $5,000,00

increase ill the estimates. They have reduced the pJire of 

vation inl the river from $5 to *3 in their last estimultes, 

increase of $3,000,000, accordi nig to their own price. Thel 

al ('rrOr of about onle million cubic yards in the dre iniiI 

the San Juan River, and an error of about half a million c

of dredogino in tile lake, whichl amount to aboutt , 4,000,000 aI

comali y'11N8 prices.

r. DOLITTLE. The amonit of material to be removed 

givel as it should be1

l . ENDICOTT. They nade ome errmo.

Air. Dooil'I'i'JILE. More tha they made allowallCe Cor?

l. LNI)IC("r. \es, sir.

Air. BENNETT. )o ymi believe, even after you r sipirfiia

tion1. thlat this inivesti nation was close en'H oigh to vilable you t

the cost of the work for the whole (anll

11ir. E NDIC(>TT. Approximately. There can not he ally 

mate1 becaIuse I think that tile examiinations and siirve vs of 

COmlipally have Iot beeii exhiustive enough 6) mike a olos

Trit is one reason why we recommIended aod itionil surveys.

r. liEN NETT. it Ciit tst soi less'?

Air. EN1ITT. It lmighit cost sole less, a8d it 1Ilihi cost S

reputation, repuItatioi it. enough Mr. lxl. Al Mr..1r. l:. i-. Do STEwART. ENDICOTT. IoILITTLE. I)miOLITT'ILE. I EN1)C ym to ENNETT. enable om tO think ,'r'. the stale him lie lr. that 1 I 1SScrtion Youi (10 thinkiht Wxouild Meo says to iiot is would it giverue, Ilot. thiilik couldyOu that iioinsists anl according not be ir the notit opinion. could cold willing be be exinnation. tHIMt will built not to be jg', to Mr. 7I,0)MQ)00 built be for upomliii' stake built lxeiocaf's that! for was yOilr prolessifn1that. for wihd not thatprpae
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. ENDICOTT. I can not say at this monient what pa

increase in estimates was due to increase in (Iantities, in pr

changes; an analysis of our report will show all that.

Mr. ELLETT. Did you imake ani estimizate of the cost of the ca

Mr. Meinocal's plans?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I do not think that we stated it separat

report, but our report shows it in figures. It would show the 

of the cost of the canal by his plans, and by our plans, at ou

analyzed. I think Mr. Noble cal give that to you. The ti

short that we divided up the work.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is 1". W. Bennett?

Mr. ENDICOTT, Tiere is a Mr. Bennett ii tie eml)loyof the N

Canal Company. I think he was assistant engineer.

The CAIIlMAN. Ws y-our Comiiiissioi referred to Mr. B

Mr. fIitchcock for estimates of the cost of the construction of 

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think that we were referred to Mr. Menoca

Bennett was in charge df the papers in the New York office.

The ChAIRMAN. Did he write your CoZnnission a letter date

29, 1895, in which he gives a statemiient of the cost of the co

of the canal ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. We have a statenient of cost, but whetlvr 

Mr. Beiitiett or Mr. Menlocal .1 do iiot reumenber. I think it 

Mr. Menocal.

The CIIAIRNN. Beferrinlg' to this paper received front you

sion, I find this statement: 11.5 miles of railroal, cost ing in 

borhood of k372, 000; rolling stock, -202,00; 727,000 cubic yaIrds of

dredging, $80,000; 937 Iiiieal feet of pier, $2000100; jetties, 

6 miles of telegraiph line, 19,000. What other item is of Co

did you find down there, if any 1 And if there arvaiy other, g

cost, approximately, exclusive of these I haive read.

M I. EN ICOTT. I thnik that covers the actual construction

The CiRMAN. What about buildings '?

Mr. ENDICOTT. There are buildiuis, ollice, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. W\hat are they worth, approxiiately'?

Mr. ENDICOTT. It would be difficult for me to state what

worth ; probably $100,000.

The CHAIRMAN. What other property did you find there, 

of the dred ges that you have spoken of"?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think that was about all. There were tw

locomotives, but I do not think there was anything else.

The CHAIRMAN. At what did you estimate the engineering 

Mr. ENDICOTT. Roughly, halt a million dollars.

Mr. PATTERSON. Suppose this (}uestionl was put to you: 

that the Governinent of the United States greatly desires the 

tion of an interoceanic canal, and that it was willing to pay a

$I133,000,000 for a canal 30 feet deep, sufficient to float vessel

28 that would that-to more construction Mr. Mr. feet would surveys, PATTERSON. ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. STEWART. you of pass water, be advise of aand large bill a and Why? canal. Wel, I At examine the think for Yes. enough once! supposing the Con"gress sir, itconstruction the would I to should field answer that of be the more not. wise the all of United Government to inthise delay detail, purposes canall Sttes-assumsufficiently with wanteof a vic
110 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Al. DOOLITTLE. Could that not be done later, after th

pIassed? Mi'. E NDICOTT. It might be modified, of course.

1r. 1'PATTERSON. Is your plan predicated upon the ap

tlat the cost would exceed $133,000,00 ?

'Mr. ENDICOTT. It might exceed that, and it iiigit not.

Mir. STEWART. Is that the only objection to the prosecu

work at Once?

Alt'. LNDICOTT. It might be one objection.

Mlr. PATTERSON. From your knowledge of the condition

information now in possession of the Governmeit, anid ass

the Government was willing to pay $133,000, 000, you think 

the canal might exceed that sum?

Mr. lNDICOTT. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEWART. And yet you are an enthusiast for the can

u'. ENnICOTT. Yes, sii; 1 thiik we ought to have a cana

there is time to miiake surveys. We do not say that the surv

be made by the (Goverimi eint. They call be made by the G

or by private parties. We simply say that an examination 

ma*1de.

Mr. PATTERSON. How loug would it take?

Mr. ENDICOTT. It sho111d cover a period of eighteen monli

take in two dry seasons.

Mr. PATTERSON. II ave you ali appreheiision, if such su

made, that it might demonstrate the impracticability of c

this canal?

.Air. ENDICOTT. Impracticability? No, sir; I do nlot fear 

AIr. PATTERSON. Do you fear that it might demonstrate th

of spending iiOre money thaii $133,000,000 i

Air. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir. The matter of the lake levels 

whole scheme. The height of the (c)hoa Dia, and of the em

oin the Sani Francisco and San Carlos rid(ge lines, and of t

to keep the lake ill) to 110, and the meaiis of' Iiinitiig its 

all depend upon hydrialic data which we think is mnt su

hand. We do not thiuk tle proJect ought to be entered up

exhausting that field anId others.

Mr. STEWART. has any member of this Commission had 

rience in canal buildings

'Mr. ENDICOT T. Mr. Noble has had experience il tie Sault 

locks. Whether he has iarg'e canal experience I am not ad

has had a good deal of experience.

Sr. STEWArT. is iot the reputation of Mr. Menocal ih ih

AlMr. ENDICOTT. Yes; but Ile has had 1111 exprieHCe exc

canal-in experieiice iii canil con structi )n.

A1r. STEWAl IT. M'. AMei iocal has had large experience in can

Mr. l NDICOTT. Nr. YsX SiI'. the struetion in Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Al'this l Suez Al '. ENDI'OTT. PATTErsON. ENDic PATTERONs. ENDTCOTT. eioc-al work oLITLE. Caial of canals? in was TT. ?Nicarau No. NO, lie ass Will Youlave sir; fi%4 sir. Ciated a?have you you I became have state with ever had simply connected how Comma examined no practical seen ngic iider Air. with the the Lull, expei'iemie canals Meiiocal Manchesteit :bout a md in thwh1
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

engaged on these surveys since-I do not know how lon

aggregate.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you regard Mr. Menocal as coimpetent 

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think he is an engineer of ability.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. If you had been engaged in this work du

time he has been, would you feel entirely competent to make 

statement as to the practicability and the feasibility of this w

the cost of it?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. What other important work of shiinlir c

aside from this canal, has Mr. 1[eiiocal ever been eig-a4ged up

Mr. ENDICOTT. I do not know of any other of similar char

think he accompanied one of the expeditioiis Wihich made surve

the Isthmus of Panama.

Mr. BENNETT. In what year?

Mr. ENDICOTT. It was sulbsequent to the Lull snrvcys-ab

Mr. STEWART. Has he not exainiied the M anciester C

canals in India!

Mr. ENDICOTT. I do not think he examined those iii India.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. ~as lie not examined the lanclhster C

Keil Canal, and the Corinth Canal ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think he has exaimined the IKeil aind the M

canals, but I do not thiik lie has examined the C riiit1 Cana

Mr. WANGER. Illave you considered the question of a shi

across the Isthmus of Telihaitepec?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Not seriously.

Mr. WANGER. Have you coiisidered it suliciently to expres

ion respecting the practicability of itl

Mr. ENDICOTT. I would not like to express an uIntI ualitied 

upon that. I am of the opinion that one can be built, and pr

would only be a question of cost.

The CHAIRMAN. Can it be operattld practically!

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think so. I think it is possible to take 

bodily and transport it safely, provided you take the neces

cautions.

Mr. WANGER. Of the two propositions, a sihip railway an

which do you think is the more practicablel

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think a canal is safer for the I transportatio

sels. A vessel is never so easily borne as when water borne.

Mr. BENNETT. That is correct.

Mr. PATTERSON. In making the estimate of -133,00,000 did 

into consideration all the contingencies that occurred to the 

the Commission at the tiie?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes.

Mr. PATTERSON. Did you make any allowance for unknow

gencies? people exceed tion.o inrck Mr. maintain the there, ENDICOTT. PATTERSON. ENDICOTT. PATTERSON. ENDICOTT. Which did. lake $133,000,000 and theand dolake thatyou in We It I ?I think And the at may,eans mean-probably want added 110, San you it if to and is the 20ave Juan large get probable. per if lake the so,anicreased River. cent can apprehension there state or for possibly? not I think of There will that, cost, be your bemnain the it is deeper mninday that very same gained be the on con

as exita
112 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. PATTERSON. What would the possible or probable inc

amiiouut to ? Have you any idea of that'?

Mr. ENDICOTT. No, sir; probably twelve or fifteeii million 

Mr. PATTERSON. Then, do you thiik $ 150, 000,000 woul

possible Colltillg4enicies 1

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think it would cover all engineering 

cies. 

Mr. PATTERSON. Would the engineering coiting'encies inc

Mr. ENDICOTT. I am speaking front al engineer's standp

hot consider the interest on the nmoey during the process o

tion.

i\Ir. PATTERSON. You think an outlay of $150,000,000 wo

United States this canal, as you contemplate ?

ir. ENDICOTT. I think so.

Mr. WANGER. Ill your reVNort you recommend an exten

Greytown Harbor eastward, do you not?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir; to the eastward.

Mr. WANGER. What are the particular advantages of tha

Mr. ENDICOTT. Old surveys and examinations show that 

Harbor was origiia lly a bight in the coast line. There was 

or bar. Originally it was a broad, open roadstead, and th

it shows that it gradually closed until it imade Greytowit Harbo

A connissiol of distinglished geiftlemen who examined iito 

National Academy of Sciences in 1866 were the first, so far 

who found out the true causes of the destruction of the Grey

bor. They found the discharge of the San Juan River had 

with it. The cause of it was drifting sands which filled up 

and they were the persons who suggested jetties to arrest 

and delay the progress of the destruction of the harbor. Th

it would not restore it, and that the only hope rests upon 

bility of maitaidiig a navigable outlet, and that dredg'in

resorted to or the harbor will be, at no distant day, destroy

The shore line is being cut and filled in, and that means t

tion of the bight. It is only a question of time. I believe th

struction of a jetty is the proper method of improving t

but that it should be moved eastward where the end will 

water, with very much less length, and where the condition

much more nearly stable. A much shorter pier will here re

where a line stretching from the end of jetty at right angles t

tion of the wind and the waves will approximate the direc

east shore line. I think this hight is going to fill up, but th

j

will arrest it materially. The progress of the filling ill of 

will be slower, and the harbor will be more nearly permanent 

tained at less cost.

Mr. Mr. BENNETT. And it would be of much more benefit to t

itnclude )'(iock. iM1r. Mr. The theENDICOTT. ENi(DICOTT. PATTERsON. ENDICOTT. end. motion STEWART. PATTERuSON. a g(ood was harbor TYes, Iagreed fhe All In move at whole sir. that mking Greytown to.that is expense in the an the ?estimate committee estimated will be less. of take $150,000,00It a will receb
NICARAGUA CANAL.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

STATEMENT OF MR. M. T. ENDICOTT-Continued.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Endicott, we have not a quorum here, b

are seven members of the committee present, probably as man

wvill have this afternoon, if you desire to proceed.

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, Mr. Chiairman, I do not kinow that it 

sary for ine to take up the time of the committee any further.

The CHAIRMAN. I will interrupt you to say we occupied al

time this morning with queries. Now, if you have anything 

you wish to state, we will be pleased to hear you.

Mr. ENDICOTT. I have simply a few rough notes of somie sta

I wanted to make, called out by some testimony presented, b

informed I can submit that in a written statement and have it 

in the record, and as that will be sufficient, I will not take up 

of the committee. That is entirely s tisfactory to me.

The CHAIRMAN. There are one or fwo matters, I think, I w

ask you about. During your remarks to-d(ay you spoke of 20 

the river. Explain that matter, if you please.

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think I referred to those on the San Carlo

They are sometimes spoken of as embanknents and sometimes 

They dam up the water and form a portion of the eastern bou

these great basins. There are 25 of those instead of 20.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you not eXplain the general features 

canal, of what the work consists? There is a map l)fore yo

iinstance, a parit of i i iiply excavatioii through alluvial soil. Explain

that and point it out on the map, as I would like to get a corr

of what there is before the constructors.

Mr. ENDLCOTT. Well, this is the eastern terminus of the 

Greytown and the harbor is shown here [illustrating]. This 

line shows the canal and excavation ill) to this dam, 9.3 miles.

Mr. PATTERSON. That is all through alluvial land?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes.

The CHAIR7MAN. Now, is the railroad coterminous with it?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir. This black line is the railroad, a

here on, that is what is called the emnbankment line, the line o

the dams are built to retain the water to the height necessary

that point on there is a lock, and here is a lock, and here is a l

those three locks with the dams are designed to raise the wat

the height of 106 feet above the sea.

The CHAIRMAN. What will be the lift of those three locks?

Mr. ENDICOTT. It will be a total of 106 feet; one will be 

another will be 35 feet, and another 31 feet. Then in here are 

adjoining the locks to retain the water in these cuts and bas

this formed here crete.oncrete. The Mr. The Mr. The Mr. point theyN ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. CHAIRMAN. CHAIRMAN. ENDICOTT. CHAIRMAN. The C-8 by willould means present be probably navigation of The Well, Of Just What Of project these clay. dmns what about they will dams. be of through in will There 50 may be what! theere fet they the be company will are in what height 25 be height. comparatively be compOSed? to is two is of 35 called tohese feet or build threeein dams? small Deseadheight, two dais or a
114 NICARAGUA CANAL.

The ('HAIRTMAN. What is the total length of those dams

Mr. ENDICOTT. I do not recollect at this moment. The 

of the balhs inl this basin would glereirte about 6 miles.

The ('ILAIIMAN. ('all you approximate it ill the other ba

r. LEyNi()TT. Probably 1 or 2 miles in this stretch.

The 'AllIMAN. What will they rest on-what kiind of 

Mr. E )NDIC()TT. Thley will rest upon clay. Somlc of the

places were the surface of the soil now is quite soft-mud 

-aiid that will he excaV:1 ted until they get to good bottoi

clay, and they will start the embaikmients from there.

The C'AIRWIAN. Will the material excavated make thes

Mr. ENDIC)"T. Some portion; yes. sir. Illut I think 

excavatioin will be quite soft and will be peihmps disiarded

The ( ' IIAIrIAN. \liere will that mat erial be )btained ?

i4r. ENDICOTT. There is plenty of it fromn the cuts aId 

a(djoining here. Then they approach the east divide. 

which is a ti itle short of 3 miles in length. Thlt dotted re

the iiavigation through the divide. That navigation i

between rocky baks. The canl I here will be 1 ) fteet i

about 1 miles 1 ng. That carries the canal into what is ca

Francisco Ba sin, stretcliing from timt point down to the 

ald it is in that stretch where there are a great many la

think they niimber about 68, with a total length on tile c

6 miles. I think the heaviest dam there will be a triple o

hig hfj-probably 70 feet high from the sur fa ce of* the groun

of them will crw;)Ss over mud dy, marshy places, wIthich wil

excavated 20 or :')0 fAt in order to get a good foundation 

from there, the heights will vary iiip to about 100 feet and 

\I r. FLE(ATIER. What will the damt be constructed of?

AM r. E I TT. Clay.

ir. FLET HER. And it will be 100 feet high, say?

Mr. EN I) i ( TT. Y es, sir.

The CHAIRIAN. A\ hat will be the width of that in the 

IMr. ENIu TT. Thmt varies according to the height.

The CHA RM1AN. The nle vo1 speak of as 100 feet ?

Mr. Ex ic() rTT. What will be the width of that? I thin

20 fect, about that.

The CHAIRIAN. What will be the width at the base?

11r. ENDicoITT. About 600 feet wide at the base.

The ChA IHZITAN. Will any p rtion of that be consi meted 

Mr. END ( PTiT. They will have to excliuide the water. T

to daimi the w ;tter back by Ileanls of cribs, Sheet piling, e

puIip out the water.

The ( 'TAIIMAN. Is that conttemIpiilated in their Ihiln?

il . EI% I( T. Yes, sir; I think so. I so uiderstaitd 

estimates The prviMe fr that work. thrown would dell ite, Mr. M1. Mr. M.I Mr. e Of is ENDLCOTT. STEWART. STEWARI. ENDICOTT. ( PATTERSON. be ()t 'wA ilt no rmltd built 1 AN. stone sino Where of ill iry conte, tie Or All Yes, A :Ire Ocltl W\hat dam part breakwaters? breakwaters the sir; Da Stone , of in 1.so, do adl lose lhis the dans according you that to breakwater stone entire thiinik t be are thteis constructed? somet plaus, thrown conteiphited schlemle. of that imes will in.plan? spoken be Soie There built to be th

ow
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. ENDICOTT. The Oehoa DIaim?

iMr. PATTEvISON. Yes.

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think it clan be built succe ssfully as a rock-

after a proper Iethod 1d andl design.

The (_'HAIiRIAN. Will ymt describe it 

Mr. ENDICOTT. Providled it is not used as a weir, I do not th

water should be allowed to flow over the top of it.

1MIr. DOOLITTLE. That is not contemplated now?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I thiik so.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is it not trite, according to the inodiied pl

water escape is through weirs farther dowi?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, the cOmpany, since we commenced to 

our report in IN ew York, have included in the esti mates provision 

sluices in the San Cark s embanknen t, and that will control 

portion of the water during the construction of this dam, and ,w

weirs above, a considerable portion after construction, but I und

from their latest report, and Mr. Menocal's testHiHmy which was 

yesterday, that they still adhere to using the Ochoa Dam as a 

The CHAIR MAN. Will Volt describe that dam?

i\1r. ENDICOTT. The dam is to span the San Jian about th

(indicating on imap), about 1,900 feet in length, including abu

and it will be about 61 feet high to crest line frOm mean river 

Boringo's have been muade there of the bed of the river to the 

20 to 24 feet, and they have ]lot fmtind any rock; it is black 

sand. Their pr p1isition is to dLi the river with broken stmins 

size, thrown in at random, mid allow the currents and flo d

river to flow over it and spread ;ut the material mn some sl pe

Mr. STEWART. What is the difference between a dan and 

water?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, a daim is built for the pnrp ,se of imp

water and to hold it at a higher level, as in a basin; wliereas 

water is built to prOtect vessels, or an eitranice to a harbor, from 

aniid the action of the sea, mid in this ease here (pniuiting to G

Ilarb ir) to alsO pri\e-ent tie snd driftinge into the imPitli of the 

That does not damn up the water, ir exclude the water In a

whereas this dam is built to impotund and back up the wate

that point.

The canal company's proposition is to carry the dam up to th

of 103 or 104feet a0mve the level of the sea in that manner, a

expectation is it will have a slope of about one in five-tha

every foot inii height it will have a length of 5 feet on the downstream

side. On the upstream side they propose to fill in with smalle

earth, and clay, and make it as nearly water-tight as possible

expected, further, that as this material is thrown into the river th

will conitine the current somewhat, and there will result a s

between and under these rocks, driving out the sand from und

a-nd the surface as the expecting Francisco sea The Mr. The distingtished foundation lake,evel'? allowing ENDICOTT. CHAIRMAN. CILURwMAN. of a and the 110ight the river. San down- feet from heavy Yes, of It Carlos What at 110 as is That, an sir; the stones much expected feet? earthen is embanknents, they as lake. the in 15 to brief, or height beinsink dam to 20 That raise feet is (lown. and of what and by dam, impounds the the tata raise masonry is means wter base Probably together called it below of this 106 from a dam. that therock-tilthey water wih feet there dammh
11 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. ENDICOTT. The base of the dam, if that is carried 

depth ot 15 feet, will be about 25 fect above the level of 

vidini'" it scours out 15 feet. The present suirfatce of the 

there is about 40 feet above the level of the sea. The

ele\v it io) s.

The CiAInMAN. What is the distance by the river from

to the sea approximately?

M r. EN) 'oTT. About 30 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. And it has a fall of something over 

mile?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir; about that. The dans to whi

in my testimioniy this morning were these on the Sai Carlo

the water is raised to the height proposed it backs up a

Carlos ridge for about 12 miles, within which there are 

which muiiist be Clo(s)ed1 by emibaniknienits.

The CHAl HMAN. NV hat is the San Carlos ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. That is the river coming right in here [

This 1f1,1) (oes not show much of it.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the character of these dams?

Mr. E-D(COTT. Well, sir, they are to be of the same g

acter as those of the San Francisco Iasin, built of clay

small dams; only a fewN- are of considerable size, probably 

high.

i11r. STEWART. Ilow are these weirs built, and what are 

of the weirs ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Ifere is where there will be one on top 

for discharging the surplus waters of the basin. It is o

masonry, so as to prevent cutting down or eroding, and d

ridge. For instance, if that represented the top of the 

tratingj, they would cut down 3 or 4 or more feet and pu

sides and base, and paving' above amid below for a certain 

that the water rising above this point the surplus would s

weir. These are intended, with the weir of the Ochoa D

certain other weirs here, to keep the water down during 

tratiiig. Tln there will be clear navigation from that p

in, g down to and through the divide and up through the San Francisco

Basin to UtlOhl, and Oil to the lake: 641 miles, they say it i

to the lake, but according to our inivestig'ations it is ab

which adds about 4 miles to the length of the route; tha

ill the river. Thie total distance has been called 169 and 

but it is 174 miles.

Mr. DooLITTLE. So the canalization has been properly 

Mr. EINDICOTT. The camahization cuts, etc., but the disc

in the river navio-ation. I do not thiiik it will affect the e

The CHAI IUIAN. From the (choa t dam up to the lake th

is provided P r by the daim? ble here ncessary the They BIelow and The Mr. Mr. rock water havegives simply ENDICOTT. ENi)ICoTT. CIIAII.AN. here and tonot such [indicating earth dredge that define attempted a depth highit? Yes, Well, will What the any.sir; j have in lines sir, there is to this well, the that trace to here is portioun area be theas plenty out [i1dicating taken thatriver never the of will outf the distance is water; been deepened, to be San ,; make overflow

determembakiJuan raisinover it a
NTCARAGUA CANAL 

overflow. It will be quite extensive, but the land is cheap a

nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. When you get farther up to those greenis

does that represent alluvial soil?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What are the banks of the river there, 

low-the natural banks?

Mr. ENDICOTT. They are rather low.

The CHAIRMAN. Will there be large areas overflowed there?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir; there will be considerable overflow 

some places, where it will spread out quite a distance on eith

There has been no instrumental survey to determine how far 

will go.

Mr. PATTERSON. Will it not lift the water up over that lig

there around the lake Ireferring to color of map]?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Not just at that point, because when we get 

the land is high and it will not submerge it, but as we go tow

sea the land falls, and there will be considerable land on ea

of the river which will be overflowed farther downstream; but 

stand that is no objection, as there is no valuable land there.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the character of the vegetation 

greenish tints?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, there is a tropical growth.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it timber?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir; aind just the ordinary tropical.veget

The CHAIRMAN. When you reach the lake, what are the dif

then of navigation?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, sir, at present, here [indicating] the 

insufficient for the navigation proposed, and it is necessary to 

out in the lake about a distance of 14 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the present depth of water alon

dotted line in the lake?

Mr. PATTERSON. The 14-mile stretch?

Mr. ENDICOTT. When you get out here, the depth is about 

This is where the cut runs out [indicathig]. Beyond that there i

plenty of water.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the depth of the water at the outle

lake ?

ir. ENDICOTT. It varies with the height of the lake. I thin

we were there it was about 11 feet there, and a little less out t

think 7 feet out there [indicating].

The CHAIRMAN. What is the height of the surface of the 

feet?

Mr. ENDICOTT. About 101.8 feet when we were there.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there a variation of 8 or 10 feet in the su

the ation These and Mr. The Mr. water vegetation of ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. ENDICOTT. STEWART. STEWART. CHAIRMAN. lands high of that here water by lake Would It I I Yes, drainage, [indicating] What think and think wll has in sir; extreme below? height is the already not, a there little ec.-the building up on extreme above low over is here. improved the a water vriation 110 climate the east of height? that feet. sea? of coast this about and canal there, country are vegetatioii 14 improve an drained feet. extrem

dow
118 NICARAGUA CANAL.

better condition than before. Now the sailing distance acr

is about 56.4 miles.

The C 1AIRMAN. What is the character of the soil here on 

of the lake?

iMr. ENDICOTT. It is exceedingly soft mud, as we fouid fr

investigations. We went out in a steaiiier anl took so

depth, and with poles andl rods, in order to test the consist

bottomU, .1n1d foun11d it Was very Soft.

The C1AI 111AN. What would be the difficulty, if any, in 

the depth of water in the channel w

Mr. ENinCo'TT. After it is oice made, with a gool wide slo

think there will be any further trouble. I thiiik the dep

very slow, and the expense of dredgi Ing it out will be inc

There is nothing there to create much deposit, aid what 

probJably the aeumulatiiion of centuries.

The CHImRMAN. Is there any rock in the way in the lake

Mr. ENDICOT'T. No, sir; not on this side.

The CIiAIn.AN. Now, from the other side?

Mr. ENDICOTT. You see the portion in solid redl; it is ill 

About a mile of that first stretch of red is called the wes

The rise there to it is very gradual and the Fall frmii it v

Then we p-ss into what is called the Tola I Un sin. A dam is to be 

striucted het reI in diIcat ing] which dams ip the waters of tile 

to fill what is called the Tola Basin. That makes continuous 

betweenl tile Iowk froiml tliis point here over to Lock No. 3 

eastern divide.

The CIIAIRM'AN. What is the height of that damn?

M. ENItCOT That is a pretty 0igh damit. It will b

feet ill hemioht, probably more, depeiident upon how deep th

fomid(ation. The explorat i )ns ore ]lot satisfactory, an(1d ther

no indications of rock foundation, and the distanie they wil

to get a fouidation will he very great, which makes it a very 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. YoU1 mean tile heicight ab )OV0 the Su ce

Mr. END1COTTI'. No; I refer to the total hIci it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But above the surface what will be t

the earth?

Mr. ENDiCOTT. I think it is 70 feet.

The C AIRIAIN. Whait will that he composed of?

Mr. ENDIC ITT. The pr oI( sitioni was to make that a roc

also. I believe the conmpanty have abanhlo1ed that pro je

perhaps they will build one of earth. with a concrete or ma s

center; but they have niol juite decided whether to build 

abandon it. They have n1ot abandoned the idea of buildi

yet, but the board believes the daniiger of such a dam so gre

not feasible.

Mr. PATTERsoN. If I hey do not build a dam, how w ill th

canal? miles have sea. and number Mr. The here you of Here ENDB'(ITT. DOOLITTLE. ENICO'r1'. C'itAI exca of isthere'! is locks, a wxiAN. vat hock, sort ion. according Then ('alry and After .1 would Iiie here there the of passin" is like exca to caminal are Brito. Mr. vat you three from Menocal's ion1 ito excava of that locks s4ate 1.6 poinf down about i1i4s, plans, inot. toward to 111d these It are the takhet
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Atlantic end of the canal, and the height of them you stated

there have been statements made relative to a greater number 

I would like to have your opinion stated to the committee h

the feasibility of locks of the height mentioned.

Mr. ENDICoT1. I think it is possible to build locks of the he

company proposes, but it is a very great height. It makes an 

mass of concrete and makes a very heavy weight on the clay 

tion, and I do inot think there is any necessity for limiting the 

to three. I think they will get just As good results by four lo

it will be more conservative as to weight on the foundations, 

gates will be smaller and more easily handled, and it will n

navigation.

Mr. )ooLrrTL1. You do not regard it as not being feasible 

locks according to tiese plains?

Mr. ENDICOTT. NO, sir; not as to lifts.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In retference to material used in these da

iaterial--won d you regard that as proper material by y

investigation ?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes; clay is good material.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It is a question of pitting in sufficient ma

\Ir. ENT)ICOTT. Yes, Md 81,yiw it properly. Trlwe is some danger

from clay damns. For iiistance, if the Ochoa Daim should go ou

always dan ge'r of those greit dams of the San Francisco sliding

slotiighing' away on the siddeii fall of water. When the wate

they are charged with water but held, but when the water on 

which presses against them is suddenly lowered they fr-equen

(Town. That is simply one of the dangers of the long system. 

the Ochoa Dam should go out there is this apprehension, and 

one of the several reasos I think the ()choa Diam should be bui

without re"garld to expense.

Mr. lDOOLITTvLE. About what length of time would be cons

making the rock-tilled dam at Ochoa from the rock cut? 

words, the time would (-over seasons of high aind low water, 

not?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes.

Mr. Do LITTLE. Is not that fact much in favor of the rock-fi

oil that plan of huildiwv; that is, buildiiig it both at high and low

Mr. ENDICOTT. It can be built quickly in that way; yes.

Mr. DOOLITTILI. Does it not insure a better d(1m if it is con

during the seasons of flood and low water, knowing' the actio

water under those circumstances?

Mr. ENDICOTT. If you could exclude the water entirely, yo

construct a dam just exactly as you want it, doing the work v

consolidating it throiigih the disposition of' material to the bes

tage for the proper slope, and packing the material iii by hand

can not be done with water flowing over it. The case recited 

Menocal in on masonry anglecter amount Mr. the edge ofENDICOTT. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. dry of 1 generally, walls in foot andmaterial his at topaved testimony, 20; intervals Nearly too; Is in Is that with thereat it and notall is, of of very the at of they simply 1 30 those Ochoa foot case them heavy or intersect 40 ofof dauls a are of fet, height question blocks al the built dams innd therock India to of in of build slope in 20 stone that andputting feet India I will theway. the with on of of saylop claytop, lenga trths
120 NICARACTA CANAL.

silt that is carried by the stream, and that in that manner wil

a barrier like any barrier of nature against the force of wat

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think so. That is my opinion. Buil

proportions, and iii a proper method.

The ChAIRMAN. Something has been said here about t

using canal excavations through rock, the peril of jagged r

edg-es to iron or steel vessels. Do you regard a canal of tha

and of that length as suggesting any impediment in that re

Mr. ENDICOTT. No, sir. The width of the cut can be m

for it and then there is no trouble. If it is exceedingly na

is danger of the ship striking the sides and having her 

injured.

The CHAIRMAN. It will not be necessary to line the cana

bers and concrete at such points?

Mr. LNDICOTT. For instance, if the width of the cut w

as originally proposed by the company, and you wanted to ta

it the mani-of-war Iowa, which has a width of 72 feet 3 inche

not be suflicient to take her throngi, unless the sides of the 

protected by fenders. It would be extremely difficult; but 

feet wide there would be no trouble. It is only a matter of 

of sufficieit width.

The CHAIRIAN. It is a question of steering the ship?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes,. sir; of steeri-g the ship. Before 

matter of the Ochoa Dam, I mean that it is all right, provi

not use it as a weir. I do not approve of using it as a weir 

that invites disaster.

Mr. WANGER. -But if it were a masonry dam it could be 

weir?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, sir.

Mr. I)OOLITTLE. Even then you do not think it will be be

as a weir if it has a sound foundation i

Mr. ENDICOTT. If it has a ood foundation it is all right

danger of an extraordinary high 1ood coming down and cut

illed dam down from the top, and when it once starts the w

may go.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. If it is put in in high water and low wat

ger of that will not be so great?

Mr. ENDICOTT. If it were completed during a flood of o

instance when they had to handle, say 60,000 or 70,000 cu

water per second, and the materials had been deposited, arr

sloped by a flow of corresponding thickness and velocity, p

next season you might have a flood of 150,000 cubic feet 

which would rearrange all these materials and cause a se

opening which, once started, would wreck the dam.

Mr. I)OOLITTLE. I want to ask you about the modern 

use of taking out rock the over cut over Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. it dam? the out? ENDICOTT. NOONAN. ENDICOTT. NOoNAN. ENDICOTT. NOONAN. top.of an Have I hlave Yes; I want Of erection have masonry you you it to never is seen ask had oflmost thayou I experience those built have, as crtain sort any. where an but expert, does to of not the destroy dams it of waters when not rock made wash it theif have fill.the of w

it 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. NOONAN. So, then, it is a prerequisite in managing a thin

sort to erect it so high that it shall not overflow!

Mr. ENDICOTT. It is undoubtedly, in a dam of that kind.

Mr. ELLETT. As I understand, there has beeni a great deal 

tion here by engineers as to the practicability of building th

Dam, and I understand you to say iii your opinion it is absolu

tical to build a stone-tilled dain at Ochoa?

Mr. ENDICOTT. I think it can be built; yes, sir.

Mr. ELLET'. You say it is possible or probable it may wash 

Mr. ENDICOTT. That is a risk or danger which I think oug

be taken on a dam of that kind, which affects so great an 

territory and so many valuable works.

Mr. ELLETT. What I want to know is if you think it possible 

able this stone-filled dam, on account of the character of th

tion, may wash away?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, I think it is possible; and if they u

weir I should say it is probable. If they do not use it as a w

can carry it to such proportions that it will stand for all time, 

if it is built ot proper dimensions and slop es.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I want to ask you about the removal of the 

in the rock cut. Do we iot with modern methods use ch

machines for cutting down, which leave the surface of the rocks

It is not left jagged, but is left smooth on each side?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes, that caii be left iii goo shape. I do n

there is any trouble at all about nav~igating the rock cut b

providing it is wide enough of course; it ought to be of a go

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You were asked this morning whether y

advise Congress to pass legislation that would eventually s

construction of this work-to carry on this enterprise until 

examination has been made. Now, what would you say iii a

this question ? Would youii not advise Congress to pass the 

legislation to insure the completion of this canal, with the un

ilg, of course, that the engineers of the Goveriment would 

all these details before the construction was taken up?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes; I should think that might be done.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And advantageously, too, would you not 

the enterprise is desirable as an American enterprise?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes; simply to make sure that the invest

have beei fully exhausted, anl the plan is approved by the Gov

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In other words, do you not believe that 

investigation has aeady been made to demonstrate the prac

and desirability of the Nicaragna Canal to the people of th

States and to the world at large by this time?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Yes; I think so.

Mr. FLETCHER. Let me put that question iii another form

you, if you had 5150,000,000 of your own that you were going t

make the investigations be would sure expend already, Mr. done money, of your ENDICOTT. be ELLETT. the your would that the engineering or plans. own part would would as you Let you $150,000,000 of Well, deem not me you wisdom, went investigations there be ask it go along? necessary, affected on you I with is and think, some a the commence question. by before before and surveys preliminary subsequent conservatism, you beginning the If which commeiiced work you work investigahaveny were andto whiwbef
122 NICARAGUA CANAL.

the canal, to go to the expelittire of a large sum in additio

tional surveys ?

Air. ENDICO'"T. Yes, sir; I think the interests are so gr

costly it would pay.

ir. ELETT. Do I unlderstalid you do not value very high

veys which have been already made"?

Mr. ENDICOTT. Well, 1 (10 not say that. I say there 

omissions and olefcienicies which should be supplied. I d

they are sufficiently exhaust ive.

Air. ELLETT. Is this over the entire route or is it in certai

oily J?

Mr. ENDII OTT. Well, more particularly in certain localiti

lower portioni of the route there shiould be a more careful e

and survey, aid up I lie river, up here, to determine more 

character of the material and cost. They do not know to-d

proportions they are (ing to encounter rock and earth in 

San Juai; and the Ililtter of the regimeni of the lake ha

studied at all, as far a5 I can ascertaiii. T hey have done 

nothing there.

The 411AITMAN. Do you remember the latitude of Greyto

Ar. ENDICoTT. No, sir; but I presum1 e Mr. Noble can tel

as he keeps those thigiiis ill his head right along.

The CHAIRMAN. Dloes the region of the doldrums exten

that latitude

A Ir. ENDI( !;ITT. I Ihiiiik riot, sir.

re CHAIRMAN. Will you look at this map of the doldru

pose you are familiar with it-which copies from the office o

and GeeOdtic Survey?

[ie chairman anid Air. Endicott examine the map.] The ('hAIIMAN. It would b1 e 8bouit 12 dlegrees?

Mr. EN)w>rTT. Well, that comes pretty close to it. I w

they have the trade winds there nearly all the time. Of co

are times of calm.

STATEMENT OF MR. A. NOBLE.

Mr. NOnLE. Mr. (11irm)an and genitlemeii. I wish to giv

cationi f the il ems t imnreise in the estimate give by the 

compared with the es limate giveni by the compailny.

Mr. STENWART. Will Yom state yotir professioi ?

Mr. NOnEE. My professioni is tiiat (if a, civil engineer.

AMr. STEWART. Are you coinnec io e with the Goverililent?

Mr. INOBE. No; I a mi ii civil life.

Alr.x PATTERN. I lave you beei en gaged in thiis kind of 

Alr. No iE:. I was in local cliarge of the St. )larys F

about twelve yea rs, frmn 1870 to 1882, during the improvem

cau that,iomis be making ai(d tions statement The Alr. called al stations, over made an by NOHLE. CHAIRMAN. a providing new double clnstr1ct "A4,000,000 first by a coistriictlioiI-u(lchl the The pr before track vision c(mialy's iO total I sheet suggest w(\as le of ilisteald aImiloitnt for is the piling, in interrulpted q41mills1 the lock enileTeers. t hat of of way etc., as tiat a in we for single enilaro-eIciit crease of when is allow locks, by correctiTg now track, )ver pIuestionls. was necessary, for 1iis heing S4,71000,000 about of strengtheiinamd witiiess errors theised providi1f;3,00puttinrailrofor and to is n
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

filling behind lock walls (which was entirely omitted in the c

estimate), and caisson abutments for Oclioa Daim, so as to p

ends of the dam (so that in case of a disaster to the main dan 

cotild not by any chance cut around the end.;s), for the tempor

sion of the San Juan River while building the dam, and a few 

that character. Sixteen million dollars to cover iierea se in q

from other sources-su-;Cch as enlargemient of clianel in the riv

lake, additional harbor work, greater 1cighlit of daiml s and1A emiba 

on account of the greater height of Wa ter iimmiiiediately above 

D)am, to maintains the lake at 110 feet above sea, etc. For i

unit prices, $29,000,000. Separate provisions for enginee

hospital service, 6,000,000.

In speaking of the coipaiy's estimates, we caln refer to eit

schedules of unit prices. The first of these schedules is given 

publications of the company uitl to this time, and is contaiine

larly in their estimate of 1890, called the " Report on Final L

In their estimate of 1895 they nimade very large reductions in 

prices, liaviii g nalde a very large increase in (qilalntities, so tha

estimate of cost remains aboit the sa mc. If the c(m p1an1y's 

of 1S90 were applied to the board's quantitiess, the total estim

120,000,000. be nearly The unit )rices - ad()pted ( by the otrd have

been criticised in the testiioi y which has been given, and I w

to the committee that the 1ioard went over the matter with v

care, consulted a large unber of conitractirs, specialists in 

of work, and I woul(d like to real a few unit prices p, aid on w

United States and the opinions of contractors as to the proper 

for use at Nicaragua. Dred ginii g in the Iay Lake Chaunch 

Lake Superior and Lake huron, in large contracts, ha s cost in 

rial about 15 cents per cubic yard. The dredging at Philade

largest contract ever let in the United States, cost 14.2 cents 

yard.

I visited last fall, while investigating this question, some of 

being done at (Greemwich. Conn., where the dredged imud was d 

a scow and by a patent injector was i )rced out on some land th

to fill, aind the price of that was 20 cents. We consulted an 

dredges at ulut who has been in the dredgoii(g business 

years, and lie advised us to use prices at Nicaragula f or harbo

not less than 25 to :)0 (cenjts. A promiient (ireoloidgig coNitract

York City suggested a price of 20 cents for protected work 

town IHarbmr; he sn g2'gstcd a higher price for dredging iin 

These prices we practically a doipted--20 cents for interior ha

and 25 cents for the canal work; we adopted 40 cents for dr

the harbor entrance, on account of its exposure to the sea, 

avera ge of 25 cents for all. As to submarine rw ck excavati

forms a very larg-e item in the estinte, I have been more or le

with that class of work for imauiy yea rs, but I consulted in rega 

the mthods as ofwishes mation Mr. fully ,5 oneto DOOLITTLE. NOBLE. NDOOLITTLE. to was nian as $6 by verify I per given which could in We I the yard it, will to the but this U Will usedYes, me forunited conditimis give I class c work you sir. the prefer m States it tideiitially. state of smaller down to work nt at any who that Nicaragua, there. tof is mnmlnber has gentlenian's state heing those Will done ithat two (ble, and of here the the answer? figures. lie name? most explaininbeca gave commto H se t
124 NICARAGUA CANAL.

colltractor told me that if he was doing that work in the Unit

on such rock as they would ordinarily find here that he wou

a much lower figure indeed.

Mr. 1DOOLITTLE. Did he state what the lower figure would be?

Mr. NOBLE. No; I do not remember that he did direct

received the impression it would be somewhere between $2 a

Tie board's estimate of concrete was mtade up iin great d

estimates of the cost of the cement and sand and stone. I

get the price for cement we applied to the agent of one of t

dealers in imported Portland cement in the country, and li

pains to write to his principals in Germany and get the l

delivery oil both the Atlantic and PIacific sides. We used tho

without any increase whatever, and taking the proportion

cement, and stone named by Lieuteiant Menocal we arrived 

of concrete as $7.90 per cubic yard oin the east side, and $7

west side. Adding 20 per cent for contractor's profit, and 

would be about $9.50 per cubic yard on the east side, and $9 

yard on the west side.

Precisely such concrete as we estimate upon has actually 

$9 per cubic yard on the Illinois and Hennepin Canal, wh

been done by the Government. The ordinary contract pric

concrete around New York City is about $7, and I think th

ment is paving that now at the Brooklyn Navy-Yard. The c

the San -Mateo D)am, California, which is very largely concrete 

tin. cost $8 per cubic yard, but the proportion of stone use

larger tian intended in tie Nicaragua Canal work, and con

tile concrete was somewIat cheaI per. On the other hand. there was a

lar'e charge for hauling cement across the country, which w

to fiicrease the price. So it is probable that that price co

fairly well with the price of $7 un(ler ordinary con(litiois in t

States.

In making up the prices for the western division of the 

Canal we were guidcel very largely by an actiul proposition 

the C(inal Company. It was not a simple proposition to (1

the Canal Coipany's prices. The dredgi ijig at Biito was 

excluded. Ile considered a dloiuble-track road from tie lake 

as necessary, and specified ceritin minimum quantities in th

( n, but in general the company's unit prices for other wor

time-I refer to their 1890 prices-were accepted by him ; 

adopted 1 by us, except the price for concrete. The increase in the

b1)d'( Is r -ices in tile eastern divisionn I (o not th ink at all 

wieni we consider the much more severe conditions, the heav

mi(n tile uniavorile i a ture of' he gro nd(. All the work in t

di visionll, a fter reacliiiig the bcks, is in a liiily country. Til

fithir igl clay hills subject to almost continuous lainfill-

gI'eater thtan aIywlhere else on the Continent, so far as known

I views ing writing. I would would Mr. Mr. Mr. lere this of Noimx. STEWA WANGER. NR becanal like are Mr. LE. glud a to Edivott ?11tiibel There I T. take to will We Are put 1i). bes will aniid of y thcumu no gld oui but points be r AMl doubt I views, r. in to glad have Meical better do init the to it. can oily Professor, have shape. testimony as be hadl to built, you the thie in putrcticabilitv with (riven cot to your make son the previoance niodcoma f
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

recommended by the board and spoken of by Mr. Endicott. 

pelled to say if it should be built on the pl ans proposed by the 

there will be a very serious risk iii the dams and emb

Whether the route mapped out by the company is the best ro

be determined by further estimates, surveys, and conPInarison

The CHAIR3MAN. There is a choice of routes, then "?

Mr. NOBLE. Yes, Sir; there is. instead of goiig across th

from the ochloa Dam it is possible to carry a lhie down the va

difficulty arises in having to cross these small streams, many 

become quite large in times of flood.

Mr. STEWART. Mllr. IMenocal takes that into accounit.

Mr. NOBLE. One of the greatest advatitages of the route 

by the company is the fact that they receive these streams 

basi is, which equalize the Ilbods.

1 r. PATTERSON. Are you not inclined to the opinion that 

pany has selected the best route?

Mr. NOBLE. I can not say that. I have not made up m

advance. A further investigation, I think, ought to be made

M'. PATTERSON. Yon think the route selected by the co

practical!

Mr. NOBLE. I think the canal can be built there, sir, but 

always be more or less risk inherent in its maintenanice, Ow

pally to the large number of embanikments alonig the line; a 

one of them would be disastrous. The smallest stream makin

through one of these embankments would almost certainly 

destruction, if not (lisCovered quickly and stopped. You u

how the smallest leak will soo1 grOW into a destructive strea

Mr. DOOLITTLE. By proper itatcriail, properly placed, can 

imade perfectly sate?

Mr. NOBLE. A clay dam is never entirely safe. It could no

elltirelV safi. There would always be some risk. Here is a 

of embainimeuits, 6 or 7 miles long. It would be almost inl)

have a line of watchmen all along there to guard the canal 

disposed persons, perhal)s some man who had been discharged 

entertained a grudge against the company, making a hole s

in the clay baiik and causing disaster. This same thing occ

levees of the lower Mississippi River. They are oftei cut; a

one is disposed to do it it is difficult to prevenit it. Theref

there is some risk in this respect.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But if the embankments are sufficiently l

is not easy of accomplishment, is it'?

Mr. NOBLE. They would be alout 20 or 25 feet wide on top 

above the surface of the pool, so it is evident how little work 

take to cut a channel across.

Milr. DOOLITTLE. But the risk in this case would be no gre

in other work of a similar character?

construction. every ordinary loss andcot-the of Mr. Mr. the would disaster DOOLITTLE. canal? DOOLITTLE. NOBLE. NOBLE. work canal lunuLdred-amd-od(ld be that to less. Well, The bank one you And How of same there Iere is propose them open much thererisk there is inllion would dnot to that is of the are generally always this be dollars-is exists same a very amount large more cntingency, serious. in so number other muchade or that less of up similar you of of it of but embfiguas thien
126 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. NOBmE. About .16,O0,000 are caused by increase in 

A lIrge p)art of this increase is due to the fact, that the em

nmust be raised, because the water in the suimiit level w

feet Ii Klher tIan I th Ie conIpanIy cakulates. Peihaps half a m

be 411ue to lmvingo- 1i1atter s pes tow the cut in Lake Nica rag'n

Mlr. Doi )OLrT LE. Ilow is the balance of the dlifference between yours

81n(d the company's estima te miad e up-the company's esti

W;11s submitted to yom

11i1. NOBLE. Tlier'e is Ili increase of about 7,000-000, :a

wa iif i(creasel railr-ind fIacIlities and greater h1arb )r facil

Mr. oULITTLn. Tiis to be adled to the sun you jiust, m

AIr. NO1JLE. Yes, sir. The cliaiite ini the Gr-eytown i11arb

so0m1 Otler Ch11nges and expedites, suc as; b kaerying the br

out into deeper wa ter and building a breakwter oi the io

well as the somt side. It Was found tile seas sweeping 

northern eiid of t Ile main breakwater carried the sa ds into 

alid we n111die'stodl tie comp y h a 1bout c(icluded it wul

sar, Iy to mlake the impirovemient just mentiOilnt. WNe have 

allmIvace Ior the pronabile sinikage into the sea bed or the 

the rock fill.

1]VIi1. DOOLITTLE. W hat is the aniniunt?

Mr. N LE. 'ie sink (rae woitl be abmit 6 feet.

ri. D)u ITEic. Yoi do not reciflledt the a ilouiit?

Sr. ~N ILE. No, sir.

1111'. PATTENSON. hIow do tile ships get up that river no

Juall or ColoaIdo?

Alr. NOBLE . Tile San J Uiian, od inmilv; wien the water 

they go Itl the Cob rad , and throw i gh this little stream, the 

[ iIhiciAti on mapj. Mr. PATTER, sN. Is that good, avi gabl e water there.?

Mr. NOLEIE. I think they a('1 collnt oiI 5 or feet there. Th

caries bv II' thie lamvger prion ()f t le water.

Mr. PATTEIZASON. Coild it be dredged out and Imade deep 

a (81nal?

M'. NOBLE. I 1oubt tlt very mitch as rewards the lowe

the river. The bed of the river Is s811(1 to an ItIiknnwii dep

M'. PATTEuSON. So it could not be utilized as a caial to 

Mr. Noi~iE:. Not all tile way ti the sea, I am coilidejt. T

near the sea is very flat an d it wimidl be difficult to raise 

above its leVel. This is all a swmipy coitry. Mi'. PA TTENs(N. hat itier r te have you hW in your 

aside fruiII the cfm'ipaily's and the oie-that ruIns 1 lug the river 

r. NOHLi. Three routes have bee 1 propos(I-one the 

routC, aiid (me fimlowili' the river, and the otlihi' followin

ptany's route I11til you get lhroiugi the first rilge, and th

oovi in lhis wxay [idicatnig route on m1apl and following 

1egi low looking exhaustive So theat aysimi Mr. The Mr far slat level i'. Nicaragmi ymiu No(E. CHAIHIZAN. as Iii to tar have route. Illy the ti surveys wo'k p mi building ress spoken I (anal, .do to W( feel IS tIhr sh1011( tIat mot theTe iig [mi id,u of' feel uhinyi1 A-(mA the is whivcr I he anyv the that C (oh (Oilcerni1edi1, conll canal, 118(e not wolld gress. similar 1 tiese hardly rec[ninend ?m111 with t ill hatrge work 1 a the amii you advise postion clay understaiding to very know iimedi that this 1:am 11111c.h to ot?aloir ofler comms ate arein
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. NOBLE. There are a great many very large earth and 

bankmeints in the world, and some as high as these.

Mr. STEwAR'. Are there some iglie r III 111dia?

Mr. NOBLE. 1 would not be surprised if t here are some th

imuch higher.

Mr. STEWART. And these higher ones are at places where 

fall is much greeter than it is ill Nicaragemi

Mr. NoilE. I can not say abhut tliat. Ill India the rainfal

be very heavy at ties. TI icr tiev )roibaibly Ihave Iiavie r 

tweity-liour hours, but there are not mn1:1y plit'Ces ill India w

have any more in the year than ill NikvAr*1ai 1 a.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. liVe 'o-0 stated all tile tells I which th

increased estimat-e of cost, according to their statIement?

Mr. NomBLE. I pres ume not. I hayve i It temp)1d merely to 

principal classes of work. I could go Ov i hle estilmates ill a few m

utes, h oweVe'.

Mr. PATTERS')N. Do you 11SbscTie b the sit entemnt Imlad

ad r. comrades Met tocal , that o1 thisthe Commis',4ion1, Air. LEI Ilic)tt d 

canal coild be constructed over lie liiie adopted by the ca

pany, with the adlditions and iflproveiminlts that you have agr

as necessary, so as to make it an inter ceaii ic caual for all ci

purmp1OSes, fo I i5,000I000!

lAir. NOuLE. I think s , sir. I slmiid feel pret ty safe in ma

figure.

Mr. PATTERSON. Now, if it is the purpose o the (overnie

United States to construct thiis canal, 1 wihat ()bJee( ion would tire be to

passing_ a bill a utlhorizi i(g thie (Gveri mcii It enter i up ion thIis enterpris

with the view of its COn 1st 1' act *ion, %kild lat Ihiese ad(litional s ur

you speak of be made un der the directi011 of the ( overmne

enters seriously upon the work .1

Mr. NoBLE. Providing fumils were furIniisi ed 4,0, cmnid ctiig 

and providing the policy of building the cuiman] was entered i

coi1d be 11o objecti ion to aplrn priitiig the a'1mm1nt necesry 

the surveys, or any larger amont-prvided, I say, tihat t

itself of building the canal had been fairly entered ilnto adll 

uponl.

Mr. PATTERSoN. That is to say, if C gress has Iade ill) i

enter lupolli the policy of construct ilg. the canal, even althiouighl 

should cost the estimate Ialde by the (ouInissin )l, t heii there 

no reason why the bill should not be passed and this prelimin

done afterwards?

Mr. NoBLE. I can see ho reason, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Do you believe that tle consi 111 cti)l of 

would result iii its becoming suci a factor il the iIltfirnat

interoceanic coliuiierce of the vorlt as its fricuids aliticipiate?

Mr. NonrLE. I have never examlied ijito the matter of 

traffic, withould mercea large Mr. Mra PATTERSON. NOBLE. PATTERSON. NOBjE. STEWART. of view so greatly business. this I can of country coibute the No,I not have That im sir; answer You Butportaince ?Ito is I have doubt have not t that the particularly of llever mnade ti the question. commerce the opinion existence im examilled canal- such expect that as of eximlination. of a the commercial into a ai knowledge canal word interoceathis factor? woulSubjand ?
128 NICARAGUA CANAL,

Mr. NOBLE. No, sir; I do not say that as an engineer, of 

Mr. PATTERSON. BIht you do think that Congress coul

upon this subject, atil do so on the assumption that in no e

the canal (ost over $150,000,000?

Mr. NOUBLE. I am well satisfied, sir, that the canal can be 

that country at some location, and probably over the propo

for that amounlit.

.1r. PATTERSON. Doift you thirk it can be built for tha

present location lI

A1r. NOBLE. Yes, sir; I say over that location, or some ot

that amioi111t. I think so.

MI. PATTERSON. ILive you studied the geological hist

country and the histo ry of volcanic eruptions in this part o

try suticienitly to express an opinion as to the probability o

Iieing disturbed or injured by volcanic disturbance-by ea

Mr. NOBLE. I conctlr eiitirely iii the opinion expressed by 

in their report, that if good reasons exist for buildiiig the 

possible daiiger tiat you meiition should not stop the work.

The CIIAInMAN. Did you see atiy evideilces of recent seism

aice in that part of the country ?

Mr. N IBL. I do not think we foul(l any such evidence, S

the appendices to the report is a letter froim Prof. henry Pittie

to volcaioes anid earthlqakes in Costa Rica and Nicaragu- a

qualified to treat that matter, being the government cinginie

Rica.

Mr. STEWART. Is it a fact thit footprints and handwri

day were still visible after fouir years had elapsed ?

Alr. NOBLE. Yes, sir; and marks imade by the tools of the 

Mr. PATTERSO)N. Would not the c(istruction of this ca

riute adopted by the canal company be more advantageoui

other in point of health to operators while they are engaged in 

Mr. NOBLE. I do not think there is very much difference b

routes propose(l iin that respect. A large part of the work 

the swamps. The climate iii the E Dst Iivide, where ther

heavy work, would be mitore healthful, I have no doubt, than 

Jian bottom.

The (CHIIA M\AN. Is there labor to be obtained there ?

Mr. -NOBLE. I don't think it would amount to miuch.

The CIJA i -IAN. From where would it be procured ?

Mr. NOBI l. Probably from Jiaiei.

Mr. PATTERSON. Would not a good deal of it come frnm th

States?

Mr. NOBLE,. I do not know whether laborers from the Sout

colld stand the climate.

Mr. STEWART. Plenty of Jamaica labor?

Mr. NOBLE. I think enough for this purpose. amo workmen have when think ger. Mississippi 1hopelield. Mr. .1r. ng suffered by I the DOOLITTLE. NOBLE. the think using on grouid engp-ieers River Colonel the I very Yes; labor would canal. is bottimi. little Is Patteronu but opened who from rather it with thatThe no were the I thereake true would sickness West is engineers remembers down not mv is that Indies rather ther at chances sometimes anywhere all there in that a there coiielitsive be their longin was place. in Nicara more will tme? on prelimina

Nicaraguvery not the troubgua as littbe Ist
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. PATTERSON. Then it must be a pretty healthy cou

Nicarag-ua.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the present value of the works of t

pany, as you observed them, excluding the surveys! Mr. NOBLE. I do not know that I would differ at all from t

mates made by Mr. Endicott, except I would Hot value the p

highly. I think it is worth very little. Their buildings are 

service. A large part of the railroad line is available; a portio

line that has been cleared would still come within the limits o

line. I could not give tigures different front his.

The CHAIRMAN. At the breakwater, are the excavations th

been made of value?

Mr. NOBLE. No; I think not. The harbor excavations are 

nearly tilled up, and the canal excavations, I think, would b

value, because, if the harbor entrance were ioved to the point th

thinks proper, the line of the caial would not correspond with t

ent line at that point.

The CHAIRMAN. flow extensive are the excavations of the 

Mr. NOBLE. I think they say they have excavated a total o

quarters of a million yards, perhaps half of that in the canal i

a rough estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any part of the canal complete, so fa

excavation is concerned?

Mr. NOBLE. No, sir. They have excavated to a little over 

full depth, and most of the way only about half the width.

The CHAIRMAN. Was this excavation made with machinery?

Mr. NOBLE. It was made with dredges which they brought f

Paniama Canal.

Mr. STEWART. It is a good climate there, isn't it?

Mr. NOBLE. Very moist. The thermometer does not registe

temiperature.

Mr. STEWART. Very equable?

Mr. NOBLE. No sudden changes. Occasionally on the east c

weather is a little severe during northers, but gcnerally speak

init extreme. The trade winds blow almost constantly, appare

Mr. D)oOLITTLE. Wimll vo please state, Mr. Noble, what tac

laid to the material collected by the company

Mr. NOBLE. I think they have given us, freely, access to eve

they have.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any conversation with aiiy p

authority in Nicaraoua as to the willingness of the Govern

that country for the Unimited States Government to become the p

owner and control this canal ?

Mr. NOBLE. No, sir; we did not.

The CHAiRMAN. Did you hear the matter discussed at all?

Mr.NOBLE. I did not. I do not think any of the officials of Ni

speak dent who niestlyby if kinds-the of The Mr. it geat wasere at NOBLE. English. PATTERSON. CHAirnAN. N M iron Colonel the C-9 anagua, constructed, breaking interpreter, ships Nothing I Andrews-perhaps do the Is passing It of niot thereas cpital, would dams, further, and speak been through anything that be injury we Spanish. urged sir. so matter were you enviroued ito further beforeby locks, know accompanied reason w When you this him-that not and by we of have committee taken accidents the called the by iillpractito jolting this up. Mr. suggeon cano'1 thvM
130 NICARAGUA CANAL.

the rocks that would take place-tliat the canal would be com

useless to commerce. l e presents t hat view of it very force

committee. Now. what is your opinion ill reg-arLd to the per

the canal and its uses ! Is it adapted I o the uses that its frien

to it?

Mr. NOnLE. I think the caiial, with the modifications p

the boald, would be a useful canal.

Mr. PATTERO84)N. Be a coIIInIerial success?

1r. NOBLE. Without any doubt, as far as affordiing safe 

vessels is concerned. There will always be, as I said b

inherent risk on account of the lonig lines of embankments 

but aside frimi that I do iot see m1y difficultv.

M r. PATTERSON. \on have doult, then, that the comm

world would uiihiesitatiiigly adopt the canal for its purposes

Mr. NOBiLE. I do not see any difficulty in passhig vessels 

canal. I presutime that is the gist of the question. I can 

diflieulty in that, although of course they would have to p

low rate of speed through the roek cuts aid othier narrow s

Mr. CoRLS, i ow would the sailing vessels be operated 

Mr. N0PBLE. Towed through.

O imiotioni of Mr. Stewart, a vote of' thanks was extended 

Endicott and Noble.

REMARKS BY MR. ALFRED NOBLE UPON THE TESTIMON

ING TO THE REPORT OF THE NICARAGUA CANAL 

The Nicaragua Canal Board in its report oin the lroject su

the canal coin [aiyattempted to present the facts it had asc

regard to that project. The duty assignied to it proved no

able (ne. because it was iiecessiry to speak plainly of mani

of' essential data; of iicwrrect conclusions from observed fa

statemn ucts regarding important natural conditions affecting 

and of large err rs in computations of quiantit ies, all tendin

the estimate of cost.

The conclusions of the boaid'may be summed up as follo

First. The data c)lected are iii 1m1y respects deticienlt, 

final judgmiienit as to the best route ftor the cainal, for an est

cost, or Ifor the in foritmation of' in enliig ing biddcis.

Second. The elianiiol widths proposed in the San Juan 

Lake Nicai'a-ua are insfliorent for the traffic, expected b

pany. Besides these large mnodiiicatio1s, the pr)'ject should 

in many minor res pects.

Third. The correction of error's in the company's estima

large increase in the estimated cost.

The con clisiis of the aboard are contested by the com

testimony of' the made of chief additional and givenreater il(g reviewing the ned absence of engineeI' a recently portionl the or divisionl be of less surve addd siub of this Alr. o extent I of ject before ,ys le Wariei of the testimoy, the on aid of chaiirmali 1t1e this comnpaitv aid route Ilie niit exmi111ationIs Sil) poiilt. A)iller iii committee ' pr'ces. ject. be respect in of( weell siictv view and The iheI its of (Cooniel of un testimony Mr. hoard, the has deemiied iuit dertoo oig'aiizatioin. the A. Ochoa take shoi't prices G. Mr. Ludlow k iiecessaiy of Menocal, to up 1)Dam th Ln(licott Mr. very i treat the inl Miller For avail

and fillyquehis briby th
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the engrineering features of the project is practically covered b

the chief engineer. In a fev cases where lie attempts to give 

as to tile dimensions proposed for the work, they difler from th

mitted to the board and are probably erroneous, as, for insta

proposed length of the Greytown breakwater (p. 11. of hear

House bill 315) and the bottom width of ca nal (pp. 13 an1d 16). 

remarks will therefore be confined to the testiniony offered by t

elg ineer.

RAINFALL OBSERVATIONS AND RIVER GAUGINGS.

The position of the chief engineer in regard to this subject is 

In the first place (p. 6,S) lie recognizes fully the importance of s

and admits that the company's records are deticient; but (se

claims that such observations nmust extend over a lo period dl. 

and over a hirge area, and even the results of twenty years' 

tions "may be entirely upset the twenty-first;" however (third)

poses during the years employed ill construction (elsewhere e

at six years) to collect the data "to which the works nust be 

ill their completion."

Tlis idea of commencing construction without (ata and a

the works "in their completion" to (Lata accumulated during 

struction was adopted at Panama, and all the world knows th

trous result.

The chief engineer states that "this niethod is also much simp

to go through lengthy complicated theoretical calculations b

estimated watersheds, rainfaills, and run-offs." The board n

of calculations based on conservative assumptions for the purp

of pointing out the serious nature of the problems involved, and 

the absolute necessity of learning the natural conditions before 

ill()- to solve themiu. It must beireiiienil ered that the physical co

in Nicaragua are different from those to wlich American engin

accustomed, aIId vastly inore unfavorable both for construction 

maintenance. That this is the purpose of introducing the calcu

that the method is ani tinsatisfactory substitute for actual obse

of rainfall, ieasureinents of river disclharge, and otier cog"nate 

distinctly specified in the report, and the proper data are urgenit

for. Still there can be no doubt that the general results of the 

tions will be confirmed when the observat ions are made.

The chief engineer would have it ilnferredl that the period a

for the collection of data by the company was only eighiteen 

although careful not to state this definitely. As a matter of 

company carried on work along the line of the canal from 1$87 

a period of about six years, and during that time the requir

might have beeii collected with a good degree ot' completeness. 

ing with this inifilrmatioln, and then 'making liberal allowance f

sible might cost period but the prsented. whiiich Thee it' sole of iiaximium,I periol they permissible importance have the object work project may been f ofi is lead, eight as placedresented obtlained. ascertaining of for customary teen much such the under months cllection can data and in be intelligent facts can such a done namedore of be regardless cases, and new illustrated by satisfactory control, a data the reasonable a fairly of board is anby the admittedlcomplete estimate referencconductas co projecth cl i
1 32 NICARAGUA CANAL.

constrctition hazards of the Ochoa DIam. If a flood of 15

feet per seond should pass over the damii whCelI built ne

height, the velocity of. the water dowin its lower slope woul

exc(4ed 25 feet per second; none of the careftully built anictu

are si bjecteI to such a destruictive force, altliough often suf

I!,e hom a iuc lvss one. If mn the otherr hand the chie

estimate that the maxinnim flood of the San Juan does 

6",)A000 cbic lee pei6 secOd be correct, the velocity and f

ciiircil (town the Slope would be iniith less and possibly not 

Thw board has g,(w d rea sons for believing the estimate 

Cubii feet per secd nlit ]ot excessive. It' observations ver

successful building of, the daim at the site and by the metho

miust be considered a mat ter of chance. If' one of these ext

slmld occurI4 4uinhg the period of constitution it would pro

away almost the entire rock-ill.

The criude or hisecure character of tlie estimates of floo

presented fr'om t ime to tilie by the chief engineer is shown 

pal5iso of his estimates of flood discharge Crmi two basi

these is the basin of' the San Juao above Olma, where t

Ilm d is miniminized ; the other is the basin of the San Franci

stream dischargri ing into the San Juan below Ochoa, where 

dischlarge is midglnlitied. A large dischiargre from tie San 

be unfiavorable to the )chioa DaimI during construction, and w

for a pi'r'per regulation of the summit level extend sive an1 c

A large dischiamrg'e from the San F,1 rancisco would be unfav

low-lev&'l line following& the river, and therefore flavorable 

englincer's route through the east divide. From the small 

San Francisco, with an assumed area of only 65 square mile

lates a dischlargve of 21,000 cubic feet per second. The ar

into the Jtia11 , excuidinig the lake basin, is about 2

miles, as scaledI on tilie nmaps, or thlirty-five times as grcat as t

by the San Francisco. Over the larger part of this gre

conditions as r egards rainf hll aid run-off are not iaterially different

froi those ill the sum ilel' basin, yet tlie ft1 oods are assumed 

three tiintes as great. ( )ne estiinmote or Ilie other is absurd.

THie importance of zscerhainli g tihe conditions governing 

ftil of Lake \Nicaragua iid applying the information to 

the control of its level aftcr the cOistilCtioi oit the canal 

be veirstate. T his iuat tcr seems t hmve received ino atte

It is 1ot intended to treaT this silbject filly, but merely t

attention to its iiprt'iIwve. The data iirust be collected, 

wodl(s the reqjiiirieieiits imtiist b Inwii before a plan cal be 

inltelligcnItly.

I3ORINGS.

It is a fact shiowi by the company's records tt the brin

.11141 the d('ccm('pO(lSedf. would was increase IoSt. York wuld Nearly east flatened liiiler l coidirmeIed If probably have of' they all divide excavate :i the been gi'r';ut hall, A 1ad( be rock showed the sample of tile beeni a io depth 1ield samples great lair&ge a press 111d f)I preserved lie uotes. of comsetiuently it laiadsl value ire preserved presence, obtained overuln believed ide to If :a11( the into this by near ill of arr;1n(iged ; m collipany the the Ilietile cost. deposit teria(, the (ialhloild comipaniuy's result ('allah, grade syst1iat 1 isn i'ock would unlesexteofrdedrilco
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

intending bidders to study the rock and to make the lowest 

posals for its removal. This would be a siflicient reason 

Dew borings if there were no other.

In tile upler portion of the Sail Juan Rtiver no boris 

taken, and the proper classification of materials-whether 

sand, gravel, m- rock-is uncertain.

THE SAN JUAN RIVER.

The recommendation of the board that the excavated c

increased in widtli from 125 to 250 lect was 1b-a sed ili part on 

in the Great Lakes. Tile wi(1th of .) feet was est:blish 

dredged channel between Lakes Superin a 111d 1lii ur wlel tl

was much less than expected at the Nicara g'ia C al, an 11 a

nae increased was fouid insuflicient, the principal troub

when vessels meet; it was also fmi(nd necessary to move ve

moderate speed. althlii' they were smaller and more manage

ocean vessels. At the iireseint timie these chlanniels are b

wider in many cases to accommi i date the Lirgrer traffie. As to 

of water in tile ch m1111el, it is stated by the cliet cin giln eer th

intention to make it ultimately 30 feet in all sections, but tha

to re(luce first cost certain portion s-amnig' tiemic the chan

San Juan-are to he 1uide o ly 28 Feet deep at first. It wOu

ecohonfly ill the enld to do this. It is obvious at mice that il

s

tions the process of' going over the wiole area to remove ii

material would be expensive, and the same is true to a great 

the dredgeable sections, and the iinal cost of the work compl

depth would 1 be increased conlsiderably.

It is believed the company admits for the first time in this 

the possibility that the level of the lake may runi down to 

f

above sea level, whiich wmuldl reduce the depth in thie redge

of the river to 2(4 feet. making it at once iipracticable t*Ur 

war ships. There (-',a bhe 1no reasonable doubt that a still furt

tion iii depth will occur oil account of the draining down o

during the dry season.

This brings up the question of slope in the river from the 

dam after the completion of tile latter. The chief eniineer 

it at thiree-fourths of an inch per mile, claimiing this to be th

observations on a deep section of the river in its present con

says in effect that there are no data at hand on which to ba

tions that would be even approximate.

In reply to this it may 1w said in the first place that where t

of water is small and the waterway large, as would be the 

San Juan during the dry season after the completion of the 

practicable to determine from existing data nearly enouo'h fo

ent purpose what the slope ani total fall will be even if ther

proportion the uninteresting This method is not of for the uncertainty. to doing the place nonprofessional this. to take The up ordinary the and question commonplace works in on detail, hydraulto as an 
114 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Tile importfilee of tlhe question of slope as bearing on t

the dreIed (111iiel inl the river mid lake is very great, ,s 

Iroi t lie following sketch:

c _ _ _orizo_ _~~ _ _ _ _

.

A is suppwol to represent outlet of* Like Nicalra (Ill;,1 

a:A to B1 tile surfa-(ce of' the river actcordino, to tile 

expect'itionl: 1) to E1 is chan11nel bottom. The climmel \Vill 

excavation ill of* the( way, frmn D) to E,. q distance of' 61,1 mile

abIlolt 2S miles froml D) towar11d E.Te ilake is supp)losei to 

tionl 110 ibmve meanfl title; the river iunmediaitely above 1)) 

to ble a.t elevationl 106, 1g1iVinIg, a Call of 4 feet inl the entire di

The bmard believes tlihait nieatir thie end of' thie dry season t

facwe would be practically' level upstream troml 13, andl the( dep

in tile dredg'.ed channel would be reduced f'rom 28 feet to 24 

ing tssgelor boats dvrwiitg about 22 feet.

Thiere arv two watys to remedy this. One is to ideepeit th

the river, tie lte. adI thiloughi tie West diVide, or, i othe

deepen te1 enle excavit lie tion from the Ochoa Dam to the s

between tile ike and the Pacifc;l. the ilas would b, enormously 

The other way to sc1re the desired depth for navigt)ationi is 

crest of the Io D 111 d all the other dims, enirs. an

ments il tile vast system by w\Vhich theo summit level is 

This would also ]I very costly, but less so than the other 

tie method adopted by th beard. It results ill a 2arge 

quat ities for the dams o rndy tl embaisments d a orresondin

tion to thae estimate of Cost.

With the irrgentI of weirs ntow proposed by the co

certain that the water eIVel imme intely bov thethe Ochoa 

be dtrwn down below tlevdiron 10d, and the ieptht of w

dredged cihnel i a the river and dmke wousl ,ctuallY be l

f'eet.

It was not m e aear to tiye board thd is not believed by 

thit tile algrd slop e ov threeburth of ml inch per Tile 

tMertas was r(1dt(y obtl i .A the A s1. It i i woik of t

vey iln 187 3 : level line wws r1n dowNil thit( bk i ank of thite( iver, 

Ire and there with the river's surtice. It is not dispute

end the rising heght tioys minled reported dlys The frienace leig4ht (r must were or board of ata f1llingi. slope. any therhave of the of stretch fluld level moment. ml water epsed aimd w wsin y no v t meanbe te determining evidence correctly befire The otere. irken by hoard renchinr which t(t giVel it oth tatie threfore ieoltaneofs tit,he heiadht as th ends found acthl oter of' attached the de but end iarng ofbservattine;lt;ucslope is wateand fter t m no e could the dv
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

For the determination of probable slope in, the river at h

the data are altogether inadequate, and the board fouid it 

to arrive at any result of value. Additional surveys and exa

are indispensable for this purpose.

LAKE NICARAGUA.

The reasons for recommending a greater width in the dred

at the east end of the lake are stated in the. report of the bo

the preceding remarks on the San Juan River. If the vi

expressed are correct, the company's project is defective also 

depth of channel and provides for a miniumn channel de

lake of 26 feet only, or for the passage of boats drawing 

reason of the reduction of level toward the end of the dry s

The company's estimate provides for side slopes of 3 to . 

not be maintained through the ooze which foriis the bed of 

that locality. The slopes assumed by the board, an avera ge 

are moderate. With these slopes a Chainel hiaviiig a bottom 

150 feet would require about 7,800,000 cubic yards of dred

bottom width can be doubled to comiforiii to the views of the 

an increase in excavation of less than 50 per cent.

The need of a survey of the entire lake route for the purpo

gation is conceded by tie chief engineer.

LAKE NICARAGUA TO BRITO HATMBOR.

It is believed that a proposition for a low-level basin 

Grande Tola Valley is advanced by the company in the re

mony for the first time. It was not presented to the board. 

vey for an alternate location of a low-level canal through 

was advised by the board because it disposed of the Rio Gra

head of the valley aiid afterwards crossed nio streams of im

The Tola, which is crossed by the company's location, has 

about 40 feet wide and 15 feet deep where viewed by the bo

said to run bank full at high floods. Further information is 

to the magnitude of its tloods. The board recommended an 

tion of the proposed line and a comparison of its advan

those of the company's line after the ascertaiinment of the 

wisdom of this course will be obvious without discussion 

familiar with location and construction.

BRITO HARBOR.

After the plan for this harbor had been developed and 

made, borings with an anger indicated the existence of rock 

grade of canal bottom over a larger part of the harbor are

borings First. were To remove correct a they made one of three courses necessa

was estimate. other ble. rock, Third. Second. The less there This cange, earth Toexpensive To is may reduce auger the move rendering be company's bowIders may the thean lrge harbor have site entrance the amount remedy. which farther given frst, aeato can of and by erroneous the south rock excluding be harbor was removed and inder the indications. difficult avoid the basis water by rock dredgthe ofr at arrti
136 NICARAGUA CANAL.

rock may be soft ald dredgeable. anmd in either case the 

ori inail locations cm he retaied a id the cost of the harbor 

I]I c mel 1ltding these remarks lie writer desires to impress 

itittee the tact Ihit the bomAld iin cpreiaritog its report soug

with i ilklictioni the difliculties of t he canal construction a

,III exc esSive est inmtate of its cost. NVierve iliIireniit unit pric

gt bi )y experieinced 111(l reliAble i olltr8ctors, tie lowest one Was

sNally taken. I unringg the recent heirimrsie company has 

Iiew testilioy rela I 1001 to unit prices. Two of the wit-nesses are wellklowl cntlctorlI , 1"lmilir with vwork iin tropical C()lomitri

cases their figures w0 hen properly analyzed con firi the estim

board.

ALFRED 

COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FoREIGN COMME

Tows(daty, Apri

The Committee on I iterstate and Foreign Conmerce th

1lon. Wihiam )1. Ilepburn in th e chair.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW, OF THE EN

CORPS, U. S. A.

Tihe CHAIMIAN. Colonel LU(iilow. this meetilng was dev

purpose of hearing anytilinig you mtighit desire to say to the 

in regard to your late service on the Comiiission in coi 

the Nicaragua Canal.

Colonel LUmL). Mr. Chairman aiid gettlemeii of the c

am not at very gIeat advantage in app eari gr before the com

Ii ave done at their request, because f have been traveling 

andlt fast, aml have not had mui1ch opportulnlity to become 

with the present status of affairs; but I have taken occas

shice comiiig to Nasin iigt(to, some of1 the statcinelits that 

m1ta(le before the connliit tee.

iMIr. STEwAART. Will you state as a prelimiiary your pro

position?

C h nel LUDLOW. I will do so. I am a lieutenant-colo el i

of En gin eers of the Army, and mliy official rela tion with tile 

matter be)gal with tmy a pp o intmiient as a miembii er of thI Nicar

in coltnjulictioll with two others, Mr. lndicott m1 Mr. Nob

immediate personal relation to tie Imatter tertm1iina ted oil 

Novemberl, 1 .95 , wht en, ill acc rdlice with the law, the re

o

board was submitted to the [Presidtent. I would like to say

fnot object. a few Words iin reard to the attitiude of the bo

tio to this (jilt stion. t I hiave stated th at (iur relating to the project teriniiiated with the rC1dertinl(g ol ur report. Since I lien we h

believe (Ilqite 1111 attitU(de pre(dilectioin w:s ill the mittee vesti It 25th initerest been was oltherwise gatioln maiy personally , wX:I it terminiated. a I ed. subject as lesie11 (1111-1114di remember of an enIlga(4,g().ed, the We We mimlortIauit and with tile matter. it:ad all We correctly, I couri'se regard which little w4IIl miml are and We 4)111 glad Ied til of none like, aid interesting ie. Xvere official our witi to or we if investigza furnish of n1 a1phmilnted grea you us had cottectioll time, t was please. work only i any tion.erest for fanili late inforimatia in preminl week to with whiclt if illar, statnot iiuApin ib
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

to make our preparationis. It has beeii suggested that the p

Congress iii appoiting the C ionini iMI( was this, that, and t

for delay, if you choose, or methig of the kind. I t0i1k t

has the right, and I have the right, as a mcmb ier of it, to state 

position ill this respect.

We had no instructions VIatever from am\(inie witi regar

conl(uct of our ilvestiga.1tionH. except those which we had fInm 

orable the Secretary of State, Air. Gresliai, aiid which are 

in the board's report. \e had ]Io (othler insi nuci ions from hi

verbal or written, or from aiiy oth er persoi c a ected \ith 

directly or indirectly. Ve ,1d all interview-I do mot think I 

initting any impropriety ii stating it, it being purely ,i offial 

we had an interview with the Presidenit b efw we left Wa.shin

New York, purpo siig later to sail, aid we nwi de aii official 

the Presideint before leaviiig Was ingt n, mrely for tile p

tliankiiig him for the appoiutiiieit, etc., mid we took occasioi

time to express our views as to the nature of our duty.

We recogniized the fact that the questi( n lia(d Ibeen long b

country and had been the subject of more or less contioversy

less interesting ill Colgress 111d out of it. It wds not, Is we 

to be expected that Our report would be in any sense satisfacto

to one side or to the other, but we were selit d(1\wni as the re

tives of the United States Goveriimeuit and as professional 

to investigate and ascertain the exact ficts as we should b

understand them, and to report those facts. We told the Pres

view of it was that we hoped to be able to suiit a report wh

approve itself to the engineering fraternity of the world as 

gent and faithful endeavor to ascertain those facts and rep

and that was all we could ndertake to do.

The reply of the President was siiiiply to the effect lie was v

pleased to hear what we had said in regard to that, and that th

uals composiig the board bad beiei selected and appointed 

the reason that that was exactly the kiiid of report that wa

and it was believed we would make. That terminated our socia

tions or anything in the nature of their. We had a week in N

to make preliminary preparations, organize our party, buy our 

and arrange for our departure. AVe blocked out the work f ir th

and we in a general way estimated that we had about six moi

or less in which to get our work done, and we co( included to 

equally between work in the field alid work in New York in t

tigation of the large mass of canal company's data. We sp

months in the Isthmus.

We spent forty days, I think five weeks and over, in Nicarag

went over every foot of the route of the canial; we imide as 

and as exhaustive an investigation of the physics andii natur

tions as we could in making a journey of that sort. We are 

from roadfall, engineers statement I and kind. tional railroad will, will which there, Nicaragua with advantages We was now who I had in were do your washed go order havenot been to on much permissioni, Costa makefor ever and toumt much see seeing gratified at been simply Rica any what a dreaded great referexceptions. it, over and was stte, wih because, many investigated the later oni the what in entire a to places eflect a after outdoor It that general we route, remains of found. by the reaching branch the a constructioand physics way, heavy climate true in We of San that maraithof
138 NICARAGUA CANAL.

we had to walk back to Port Limon, which, although not b

pleasant, gave us anple opportuni ties to exaiiine it closely

W e went to Co1(n for similar purp)Ioses to investigate t

of the Panama Canal, so called, since its suspension, to fi

effect the rainfall 1 lad been there. and our observations in that respect

were also gratifying. We flien returned to New York the 

of Jiy and spent the remainder of the timte in. I think, th

rions, it' not exhaustiing., task I ever had to tackle, and th

thru)l h tie entire aceuIIIIul ated miass of canal data, ill or

tain wat was the in formation the c('mp1iy had acquired a

s judlIglment and( opitioln as we could form, modified and 

our observatioins iii te country itself.

Mr. STEwArT. Wluld tiere be any im1proTriety ill the 

should inquire who wrote the report to the President ?

Col1el .The question is unusui , but I suppo

no11(1 reasons for hot saying so. I have not any now. We all three wrote

it. It was throughout a coniposite affair. The field was 

11nV 011V Man to cover. We were all three interested in 

braliches of the subject, 111t equally resl;oisil Im for the results

all three worked at it as laboriously as we knew how. We 

9, or 11311f past 9, in the 11111ning until 5 and 41 o'cliok at the 

army building Ioal ed US for that purpose, and in a miaj oity 

got at the matter a gain after dinner, workinii g' until, say, 12 

course this was individually at our manes. \\e blocked th

in a certain sens ie, and tried to get the liehl covered, but no one 1111

could cover the whole of it ill three mo4)1ithis, or six mnIIithis

time. However. we managed to t et over it, and, while the results w

unsatisfactory, we are content, 111d quite conitenit, in the b

our best, certainly, and that what we have done will son

app ro)VC itself to those whose judgoient is to be respected in 

when they have had opportunity to ill vestigate the nature 

subJect. The report is a composite affair. The oiily 11a11 

all was the typewriter.

Mr. PATTERSON. Ao11 all concurred in the opinion that it is practicab l e to coimstruct the canal ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We state that in tie report.

AMr. PATTERSON. I refer inow to whait Ar. Noble a(nd M

stated before the c )mlittee.

C01(n111I LUDLOW. The text of our report on th at matte

for itself ill regard to the construction of the canal-that 

feasible.

Mr11'. PATTERSON. W ithiin What hiuiitatioll ?

C ()I(10mel LuDiLOw. Of ti me or money?

Mr. PA TTERSW oN. Of 11101ey.

'od110el L 1w. Well, that is difficult to say, because 

satisfied that we hiad lbhe infOrimation thiiat was iwcessar y 

tory (141 Iation insst wititin $125,YOO,000 Mr. Colonel Colonel Mr. and answer upjin PA PA a is what mlodetate TTvIARsoN. TEASoN. available Lulaow. LUDLOW. the to ?itthe wu procu Oql1stiin a1A to-day, -Do \Vithtiii I Yes, inii 'eally do reasonable ,ld you g Of we an(d ot as cost fr : ;150,000,000 that believe el tohink we entirely what to in S4) time. do 14 so; state i rm itt.can. iiation was certain 1?as and We nearly feasible so urge. d( it far not as call as aind and. we thifi

be it ic
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

approximate ju(d gmeiit, we think so. I think my colleag

so. We make a provisional estimate, if you like, of $133,0

$134,000,000.

iMr. PATTERSON. I think that is the amount.

Colonel LUDLOW. It is named in our report and we do state 

ion that the canal, not necessarily according g' exactly to the c

prices, etc., but that a canal call 1be built within that estima

is a very conservative estimate. I wish we had made it , 15

as I wold feel more satisfied ill mv iniid.

Mr. PATTERSON. Do you think the Goveriinient of the Unit

could construct this canal project over the route adopted by 

ragua Canal Company, an(d such a canal as will be entirely 

suliciient for connnercial purposes, witlint the Iiiitation of I 5

Colonel LUDLOW. I tIn uk nll answer to that can not be g

the necessary information can be C gained; there are sone 

data which must be deterinied before the engineers

Mr. PATTERSON. Your inives tigations have led you to agree 

route adopted by the canal conipany is a prefera bl e route?

Colonel LUDLoW. D) we express an opinion of that sort?

Mr. PATTERSON. I have referred more to what has occurre

this roon.

Colonel LUDLOW. You see I an quite ignorant in regard to 

Mr. PATTERSON. What is your opinion on that subject?

Colonel LUDLOW. I think there are better ways of blldi'ng 

than to build it according to the project as formulated by the 

as some featuires of the company's project are absolutely impr

and I regard them as impossible.

Mr. PATTERSON. What features (1o you refer to!

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, the La Flor Diam; I believe that to 

cally impossible. I believe, if yo(u choose to speak of inior m

Mlr. PATTERSON. You refer to the La Flor Dam there [illu

Colonel LUDLOw. No ; it is on the west side here [ill ustratin

is the worst feature of the whole project from an en-ineerin

point, aind the proposition to construct that La Flor Dain oi

proposed by the coiipany and as they propose to build it is to 

impracticable. There is no foundation there for the dam.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Put they have a81 alternative 

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, an alternative, and quite a simple 

ble one of a low-level canal, an eNvery(lay, plain, coninon-se

which anybody could build, aiid there would be no serious di

constructing it in that country. There is no question of tha

advantages of undertaking to build that Tola Basin by me

La Flor Diam are not suilicient in our jndgment to warrant th

and danger of undertaking to do it. It is a much more dang'

struction, and a more formidable construction in some aspects 

Ochoa Dain, about which we would also, if we were g )i ng to m

fications study. limitation purpoIescs United mission if sion Mr. Colonel you that PATTERSON. like, States' to tor the LUDL of investigate of put commerce? $150,000,000, action having purposes it OW. out When of Not to a the the means contract, as only you you scheme Government well. that. mean of speak communication like I hadhave a I of canal men to in in constructing have always view forming which a canal further the been from will propriety, th a the Governmat under aswer sea inforimwill canatot
140 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Navy, anI it was with that in our miis beyond any doubt t

d(Iwl to iiVestigIte ilthe problem.

1 i. STEWAiF. 1Do yon thiiik the (calIal will be a source of 

Iess to this Goveriiment

('loniel LUmLOw. Tlat is a ratIer wide question. I am 

expert. I' ymu waiit to take care of the canal seriously an

to control it, it woiIld reqilire smlle iiaval force at both e(ld

All'. PATTEA'SON. If I 11lilerstaId you, the estiinfte which 

mission have placed 111)1m 1lie coins1rtictioi of this canal m

thiat will an swer all purposes ()f itle Navy as well av-s purp

c

C 'dolnel LIT h . The Wo rill Side by side. Il the ca(is

they ined (a little more tievoommoa(ihtiOi ill the way of dime

'I purely cniulflerciAI vessel.

AI 1. I 'A'i'r N j it )N. A can1l which \would allswer the pur

G overm I I) 1e11 fI tor 1:1 av 1 purposes would answer I purposes 

ne(cess: ri ly?

Comiel LUDLoW. Except for the big Atiantie liners, a

never taken their into c(loisiderafltiOnI.

i\Ilr. IPATTERISON. (i OU ld 114Pt- they go t1romigh a cai al wh

ks1ipo collfl ("o I hrough'll?

'o1oiiel LUm( v. Well, they are longer than file battl

you llave to hamve lhe loeks lPelr neCeSSiiy to take the l

Alr. liENNIT. It is simply ' (I lsti'lictiol of the l4ks, 

C(IOlIel LUDLOW. I think so, '111d there need int be s

xNpense in addition. r examp-le, you lieed a lock 80 feet 

biti le shlip thirouigli, whereas the C4'inlp:INy's pro?,ject is 70 fe

tile estimate was for 70 feet, althIioiug~h tile project dechires 

Mr. jATTE SON. Iru ae alii Army eoiginleer?

Colonel LUDLOW. yes, sir.

)k. PATT1'E N. WIht hiavIe been your op)ortullities fo

c(Irect estillmte (d, this kind of work ?

Colonel LAmow. I do not kniow. I have been a great 

oil river M111larr work all Ily life since I have been ill 

I am fniili:ar with I harbor (ons0r51 io nllld 111 maters of riv

menlt :1i)1 dredging 111 4cmitrict wol-k otf Ihiat kiidi, and ha

with it ever -;iilce I hlave bocin il He service pretty much

fulIct of light -house work :111 tlillo's of that sort.

Alr. PATTERSON. Ia e yo1 ever tonstruited a canal 

tenlded the conlstr4'ctioii of a canal?

('o Mel LnITI)LoW. No; 1but canals are in that respect ver

rail roads.

Mr. 14Ir!'TI E. Yol are reported to h-ave stated thia

last visit a4bro il yo u ar more t han ever convinced of tlie p

of the Nicaragua Canil

Colmiel L 4 PW. Of cirse I did not say that. It wou

graF llitoPls o1 Ily pairt to have said it and I did not. C( result iIcoilv fessional enltirely We an al thik a prP ("4lmel Egl 5 was ol lr. Iienlt feasible. isi propriety. y4Plr H r so, LUDLOW. repmter ( PLITLE. fe'asilho. S to and mt observations r]ply. 1nS I That Will have 8 will I askI will a11m1 was told <ulestim was 4(ccasimally you no tell which asked objectimi abroad him my state you, n P1 answer, I if might, thought Iot I to if was askto Ie(Cessari you the saying irtiude coniviniced and you like, committee a can wea ly what it. questions impert al somewhIa

say at I ia so did lle wht Nic thto in
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. BENNETT. Has your inivestigatioii of foreigni works le

feel any more kindly toward the Nicaragua Canal route

Colonel LUDLOW. I have never felt may other than kindly to

Mr. BENNETT. Any more professionally

Colonel LUDLOW. It has not affected my view of the physic

Nsicaragiua Cad]a l questioii, because there is n otlinig il ani egi

way that is more strmiigly iindividmalized tih ani ship canals. T 

classified -s ship canals-if you like, maritime sti caials-Iut 

as different as possible iin all their peculiar cliaracteristics, altliom

belong to the same class. You cani go and inivestigate the Sue

as ilich as you like, but you Will get very few lessons that wo

you ill the construction of the Nicaragua Ca ial frmii a mere in

tioi of the physics of the Suez Canal.

Mr. STEWART. Have your late iuivestig"atiois abroad led 

change your repo r t to the Presideiit ill aly respect?

Colonel LUmLO)W. Not the least in the wor]l, except, as I 

answer to a question a little while ago, that I Father wish we h

round Illniumbers in our estimate.

Mr. STEWART. What is your particular expert objection to t

proposed by Mr. Menocal ?

Colonel LUDLOW. To the route or the coiistruction ?

Mr. STEWART. To the construction and the route.

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, the La Flor Dam is impracticable.

Mr. STEWART. If that were mflOdified, do you consider the 

plan feasible?

Colonel LUDLOW. We are not satisfied on that point.

Mr. STEWART. You have no objection to the locks'!

Colonel LUDLOW. Except they are not large enough. We th

can be built.

Mr. BENNETT. It is a Imatter of cost then, is it ulot?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is a matter of cost, aml, ill a measure, 

neeriiig practicability. The board tried to be as coiiservative 

scientious in that as possible. NOW, the con struction of til

Dam is a very grave cause for cOisiderationl. As propmscd, it 

lutely a structure without any precedent illn eiinitecrini g work. 

vital feature of the caiial project, anid upon the success or f

that work d epenls the integ-rity of the navigationl.

1\1r. STEWART. Are not the chances for success at least as 

for failure?

Colonel LUDLOW. We tried to bore into it with all the inte

and research we could give it and get at the heart of the probl

I must admit with practically 11o assistance from the cmiopa

investigation of that subject. They (rave its no data alod gav

drawings; they gave us io plan, and they gave us jio specif

We had to go to work aud ill our minIds conceive the necessity 

construction of a dam of that character, amlot theni try how ill ou

project! we setthere your Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel could it attention forth that STEWART. STEWART. go LUDLOW. LUDLOW. we as to want clearly to? work What Of more Whate ands the portion we alldata observatioji build work could three before of ?it, went make the and coming and work overyou it iin investigation will every our didto a find you report. final ftot specificalwe conclusitogetheenid1aYou of th
142 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. STEwA1RT. But there was a portion of the report whic

vidiuallyv wrote, mid a certainly other portioii Mr. Eidicott w

( oloiel LUDLOW. I (to not know that

,11. STEwAnT. You Say you W rked in cooperatioti, bu

wrote iie part, and Mr. ELidicott wrote another, and Mr. N

another

C( loiel LUDLOW. Separately'? Not in the least.

lr. STEWART. I so understood you.

Colonel LUDLOW. Every branch of the subject in our in

was gOne over by each iii turn.

Mr. STEWA RIT. What branch did you specifically investig

is what i want to get at.

Colonel Lumtow. I do not think there is any part of th

did iot investigate.

Mr. STEwART. As much in onie direction as in another?

C colonel ILDLOW. Oh, I was acting as chairman of the 

my time wits taken up with a good many tliiigs. I will sa

there is not a point in the report that every (ne of us has no

carefully, prayerfuilly if you choose, aid investigfated. The

at ino tim hia conitrariety of opinion in the board, and the result as formulated is one for which in every part all three of us are colle

illdividually responsible.

Alr. STEwART. Well, some person dictated that report 

nograpller?

Colonel LUDLOW. Can you dictate matter of that kind? 

it is too important.

Mr. STE WA RT. Some person wrote the report?

Cob l(el LUDLow. Yes; there were three persons who wrote 

Mr. STEWAR T. Three persons could not write the same po

report ill the Same 1aiguage?

Colonel Lu)(w. Vhliy not?

Mir. STvAnT. There must have been someone who wrot

the report, and you

Colonel LuLow. Atd the other two corrected it.

Mr. STEwAR T. And then the others tipproved and modif

Colmel Lu Ld W. All three of us wrote it.

Mr. STEwAR T. But who wrote it before it was modified o

or I(lded to?

Colonel LUDLoW. All three. Will you be kind enough 

kii( \w what this line of investigation is leading up to, as 

what it has to do with the current matter?

Mr. STEwART. I will tell y'oii.

Colmel Lummow. We have no secrets in the least.

)11r. STEwAmRT. I do not believe you have.

Colonel LUDLow. I anm quite willitig to give every me

Coniiiiittee all possible iIIforiIation they may desire. If yo

indiVi41ial precedent. stlte issueto saimI thi4itight. \:s i1l Colonel six r. to there witI SHERMAN. times an11nier, sc(krain LUDLOW. memtiiibers is what as lie lit) with long siys such you w I heither loose see as ofNo; there said part thehat, SenMtOr stone there thtis just board are of, but the mnmy filled piat is jn I not are no w,report. iller amd iii comparison that such a inilividually in with hgih, tlmt his the daitis clay statement and Ochoa part ini between material, responsibIndia they amd Dlam befoare the whthww
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

can not compare the two at all, as the physical conditions 

nature of their construction and the dimensions are totally d

Mr. SHERMAN. Is he wrong in saying they are the same 

dams?

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, quite.

Mr. SHERMAN. Built on the same plan?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Built on the same foundation or a similar 

tiol ?

Coloiiel LUDLOW. Sand ; oh, yes. They are very interest

structions, but they are built in the dry, and they are built b

and they have elevations of not to exceed 20 feet.

Mr. SHERMAN. Not built in the dry?

Colonel LUDL ow. Yes built iii the dry season. You could 

them by hand in the wet season with 20 feet of water runn

them.

Mr. SHERMAN. Are not the rocks just dumped in the river?

Colonel LUDLOW. No; all the face of the work is carefull

hand, and there is masonry iii almost all of them. Nature t

water off in the dry season, vOU uiderstaid.

Mr. SHERMAN. And there is no water when they build them

Colonel LUDLow. No. Then, furthermore, there is a trernei

ference in that many of these greater works are built with fonn

They sink brick or iron wells down in the saud and till them 

concrete and connect these wells up.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. These are iudia dams?

Colonel LUDLOw. Yes, sir; they are extraordinarily interestin

We call attention to all that in our report.

Mr. BENNETT. You questioned the feasibility a moment ag

Menocal plan for the construction of the Ocboa DLam. The 

sioi made a suggY-estion in regard to the construction of tha

believe, as to their ideas as to how it should be constructed ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We made a serious endeavor to construct 

minds.

Mr. BENNETT. In your minds you have succeeded, have you 

Colonel LUDLOW. We were willing to think and hope we 

before expressiiig an absolutely definite and fimmal opiioni 

subject we declared that we needed more light.

Mr. BENNETT. Exactly. Then your idea of the constructio

Ochoa Dam is that it is feasible, and it is siinly a iialter of c

Colonel LUDLOW. We state our belief that the con struction 

at Ocloa is feasible. how much it will cost we do not kn ow.

Mr. SEIRMAN. I understand you mow to say that the con

of the dam on the plan of Mr. Meuiocal, if it is Mr. Menocal's 

not feasible. Do I so understand you?

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, it depends upon what you mean 

We regard Mr. Meiiocal's dimensions as totally iiiadequiate.

structing although in properarticularly shore, Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel our DOOLITTLE. SHER1MAN. report. the character? it a LUDLOW. point LUDLOW. wet haswe dam, not where regard I It been man It We you is isthe the a (lone largely miht are a question angle dain abutments incliiied of say that, by ainy is lof formed, dumping such putting and to connecting believe the nature and rock in arrangement where sufficient as that iii the this. the it dam cn is rivmabWob
144 NICARAGUA CANAL.

necessary the water should not be able to cut around the 

damn and tiank it; we regard that as extremely iniportant, an

ca's ph i. so fir as we know, did not provide 1'r it. The 

to cilstruct it, y-oi h 160l1t say, by sinking caissons there, as you will see

by tile reprt. We also coi sidered the great danger tha

wouhl be exposed to fiomii the 1loodIs of the river while i

coistructioli, which is a mtter of interest ill building that 

have a contingency of six or seven years possibly

Air. DooL'rLE. While the canal is being ( constructed

Colonel Lu)ow. While the (hn is being constructed, 8(

all the chances the river is go inig to give you ill that interva

not know what they are.

Mr. DI OoLITTLE. Do you not believe a dam that is built 

a1 ld )w water, coverinlg such a period of tilme s toiri, five, o

that a dam1 constructed under sc circulmlstanices nmust sta

Colonel L UDEw\V. We 111pe il tl press of the constru

dami iight be imad stable, but it is not clear how it is to b

and we grave Very c fl ,111cosiderati11 to the desira1litv of tak ingy

care of the Iloods of the Sall Juan River while that (1:11mi w

and while it was in a comparatively unprotected state, un

get it above the water to keep the floods fron going over 

will refer to that pOilit, because it is absolutely pertiiient. 

of plalis fr this darn. The daim is to be used as a weir 

the company's pr(),ject.

Alr. DOOLITTLE. That has an alteriiative, too. has it noto

Colonel LUDLOW. No; the coiny )1'( p1roect is to use thut dam 

weir. The alterinative is the raising of the dai above the 

that the buard proposes.

Mr. )UULITTILE. And then use weirs alomigside the cana

Colonel LUDLow. We use weirs, if you like, and it you 

eral sluices in the San Carlos ridge in the way of regii la

there, because we propose it we were to build that <ain t

discard the idea of permllitting the river to ru over it after 

a damn.

r. )ooLITlE. Oil account of cuttinii g at the crest of th

C doltel LiUD Aw. Oil acc lou1t of' tile cnormlous danger o

of thl river carrying the dam out amid ruiniig the while 

an111 all ow g hlie whole call to wait five ir six years while yoI are building another, to say iiothiing of the dLanage below it the dami 

And the danger is not inagiuiary, it is a very real one; you 

ask ally soun1(1d engineer on thit point and he will tell you th

hot perimlit water to run over that damn.

Mr. NooN A N. Assuiiiin g thiat is a pi rerequisite-and I 

expoelienice that is true-that water iust not run over that 

Colonel LxUoIw. And no engiAieer would perliit it to do 

Mr. NouNAN (Ci ntililting). Is it not theln within the scope 

ing undertake dispatch would edge have Colonel Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. science and to Co1Liss. CoRLIiss. it be take an(d experielice LUDLow. LITuLow. this wser to 1Nw. to force mal1k1 enterprise I copIhllete I than wold did as it Oil, We Well, 14) not any s) rapidly di) like have who hiih wit the know 50. mail I towouid Ii (al entire aild endeavored ask all as living but aIs\er the it stroinig yo. be that canlcould to Iecessairy very assuininig do you 8s to ready he gunad that. it, to do had qustion? accomplishe

withstand that Imieaniis for it' thate I use? in had, skill the to our tGp
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. CORLIss. Can not you approxinate it?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, if you choose to answer in the only 

can answer-with a qualilication. Thc (liiuration of time it m

to fill in at certain places and cut out at certaiI places, a

at certain places where it is necessary to get dred'ging done, it 

ably take from seven to eight or tell years. Tile misclniiices 

you might be s1lbject in that time are not gi-u ssable. If you ha

half built and a 110od takes it awaiy, you have to build it again, 

those works there are coltiil agencies of liat kind. The Ma

Canal, in particular, had a bitter experience of tiat kind.

Mr. CORLT.SS. How lo1' were they in tihe C(ostruction of th

Colonel LUDJmW. Oh, several years longer than they e

Several times they were burst ill upon by floods which iiiidid th

and where they had taken out 10,000 cubic yards the Ilold br

20,000 cubic yards and nearly ruined the contractor, and, in fa

hilli.

Mr. STEWART. W\ith modifications of the report, such as 

cate, would you advise the United States Government to unde

canal at once?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Allowing SItuIficient time for gathering 

sufficient data?

Colonel LUDLOW. I hardly consider my individual opinio

necessity of doing this w(uId be 'f ineh adva tage to the co

Individually, I have always been ill vir (f ge ting it dme.

Mr. STEWART. At niceI

Colonel LUDLOW. You cau not do it at once, but, if you plea

this view of it. This is a phice, as we state in the report, wh

not well to practice small ecolmnmie.s. I wvill s; ,y further, thIiat 

exception possibly of Pa namit thlic pdysic'a I cnditions of Nicarag

it one of the most formidable anm 1 ati ger-mus enterprises men h

undertaken to carry out. You can in t mod iify thIonse physics. 

spend :1,000,000,00, and unless you spenl it \Visely you will 

through with that canal.

Mr. STEWART. Have you any better route to sum)'g1est?

Colonel LUDLOW. Not at all; but I have this to suggest, th

that enterprise be entered up(n seriotusly, and bef re the ciel

American Government and the Aimerica n i people and Amerie

neers is tied up to it, every precaution should be taken ti see 

Panama fiasco is not repeated. I do not iean the Panama 

but I mean the inadequate engineering. I am il favor of inve

it thoroughly and then doing it.

Mr. STEWART. Are not the physical aid climatic conditi

grether different in Nicara gua from Panama?

Colonel LUDLOW. They are not altogether different. They 

in the tropics, within a few degrees of each other. They have 

winds more or less, but the rainfall is more dangerous in N

than undertook properly, you regard that ditliculties. and Mr. Colonel csidering we is has DOOLITTLE. so N the say C-10 and important. been LUDLOW. to whole it It cut theis was found now feasible. enterprise hill through It 100 Oh, the slid The on reard miles question not in the Suez It a as on at of hill to is line having all; them digging Canal not theof without of ithe the and dang-ers the wouhi insuperable of a length length 100 theyrench Painima investigatiu.g' not miles of catte of of through be the dificulties? the Canal. hd t felasible to lie undertawork, grief. no rute the sand enThi
146 NICARAGUA CANAL.

a lock, the simplest P ssible caial enliineeril g; it is like 

railrO)ld oi the plai is.

.r. I 1 lATTERsN. ave you ever looked into the Panama 

Colomiel LUmLOw. Well, we did.

1Mr1'. PATTERSON. D)o you tliiik it picticalble?

( olonel LUDLOw. I do n kinw; the French engiener

beeni working tlere say they think it is, anid we tlluderstoo

were t here thiey ex ] pcted sooN to publish their conclusions t

and endeavor to secure the approbation and pprovil of th

ing fraternity as well as capitahsts, but we did iot examitie 

Tliey did not offer them to us aind we did not ask tor them

considerable iii ni motion oil the subject frml a gentleman t

i1Ir. PATTE N. ha e yoi ever Aivei aly attention to 

tionl of construIcting a ship r Aly? Colonel I:TDOW. vNo, I have n ot. That is another exceed

estinig matter, but I have never l)oked Into it ptarticullarly.

Mr. STEWART. Tihil Yoli1 cmiclusioni ill reg'ar'd to this pr

there has iot beenl sihlficielit stiuly 1ad inlvestig'ationi of tile 

Colonel L1mitv. Tiat is at all events the judgmet o

that a more kull investigate ion should be had than lias been 

certain aspects of the c1al probIlem studied, especially th

side of it, and s ( o hier of t lie t pog)radphie side, too, shou

minedl, inl ourju mn.

Mr. IDooLIrTEu. D)o you state you i nnrd this work as fe

Colmel Lu uLOW. Yes, we re'ea rd it as foa sible.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. lut with I10 modiicatiolls?

Colonel LUDLOW. T o build a Cenal there?

Mr. DooLIrTLE. Now, then, yu would not regard it as u

the part of this G(overnlenI Il it, iviIng5 to tile eCIgilleers sufiici

the collection of dtl in-Iflflatio , to p1ss legislation at 

you please. which 1WONldl CUme the Gmvernment engineers 

go o41 tiind acquire this infoimuition, -mid tlIen when acquire

o

witi tile work ?

Colinel Li-i)OW. (4 o)re>Pss starts ill witlh these things so

that is what You mean. They have in some other cases a

liberallv inl advance, a ithoriNzinll the use of nm oney fiar cert ai

but usually the projects ., h1ve been very careflilly considere

lr. DoOLIT'TLE. Considering" the difficult, I imeanI of 

support of tie people and Congress for a great undertai 

killd, if it is deemed at this time it is possible to pass le

this kinid, Vop would IOt deeiim it ilniwise to g4o ah1eild with 

lation as would scm-e tHie collection of this inforiall4tiO), an

information was cf1lect(4. the construction of the work ?

C01011l LITDL)OW. I aiim Sure the cilsideiation of such a 

Colgress would he wortli much more tihan w hat I could 

are V11rios branches of t lie project wlichim (oTIess I' would have to 

you sidcr thIroug co0fi shall Congress constructing Colonel Mr. wishi 1en1ce, lhi before speak1)4)LI DOOLITTLE. recess( 8n11( uponi LUiL(W for ticin 11d TTLE. the dsire tliis. itself, ry present canal? the leo-islatioIN I You (coutinuinlg). tie tinil1k I it ciredit aimi ymi support a are o we prject ill like. in offavor he thie favor of' I wilichI very ()f 1, tllilk Uinited tile however, doing of Oft people, sh1111 getting it cn i States itch it, isabsolutely diflicillv do all to pprove the the up first 1not in inlnfors-wi1ewait comgettiitsethl
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDtOw. I am in favor of getting the ca nal throu

have been always, but I want to do it ri'lit.

Mr. NOONAN. [ ullderstalid you can not foresee the exigencie

may arise in the construction of the canal ?

Colonel LUDLOw. No.

Mr. NOONAN. Aiid that is the reason why a proper estimate 

be made at this time?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ni(NAN. Is not that al inicideit to all great enterprises

Colonel LUDLOW. Always. That, even after you have na

examination as full and exhaustive as you can make it, you s

to allow for unktiown contingenicies.

Mr. NoONAN. The Scieuice of engieering, like all other human 

is progressive, and, of course, we find mien who are able to ei

obstacles which arise.

Colonel LUDTOw. That is the way Americans are apt to lo

We built our Pacific railroads in that way. We have great 

our ability to get through anything.

Mr. NOONAN. You would at least rely eiitirely upon the ju

of the engineers who would control the work

Colonel LUDLOw. Those are engiiceri g questions, sir, entir

Mr. CORLIss. WVhat further illvestigatioin, ini your judgient

be made by engineers, or your board, b1tt ire this project sh

undertaken by the United States Governmieit ?

Colonel Lumtow. We spent several very carefully written 

our report in stating that.

Mr. Co LISs. Could you lnot (ive us a summary of it?

Colonel LUpiOW. Yes, if you like.

Mr. CoRLISS. will ask you what i investigation, ili your ju

should be made that yo ur board has not already made?

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, we need a lot of borings, in the firs

Mr. CoRLISS. How long would it tike to cOliiplete theil?

Colonel LTJT)LOw. At the rate at which they are made down 

think it took ta week or tw'( to make each one.

IMr. CoRLiIss. lIow long would it take to do the bori' gs n

for your board to deteriniiie upon the ques tiou' ?

Colonel Lunu ow. In a general way, we estimate we ought t

year and a half or two years for that investigations. It wmild 

least that long. I think we ought to have said two years, but 

a year and a half. Of course it is jiist a matter of judgiiienit

estimated how many people it would take, and whiiat it would c

how long it would take to do it; mid as near as we could g

judging from the opinion not 1nly of o(rselves but of mell 

with the country, we consider it would take from a year and 

two years.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The cost of the canal, in accordance with th

of Now, canalthe of $6,000,000 the formidable. Colonel Mr. Colonel your errors unit coitpany, is by DOOLITTLE. prices, Commission, not the LUI)LOw. of LUDLOW. or that board $7,000,000. as the and lar largely coipanly's and ge Ispart That I is not as think, hrge largely any increase this owing is part other tak increase computatiois-sone canal, increased to of in it canal the quantities, it, in by ini am( accordance enlargement and theini over thea, rmoval large, part aid world that of with millions; that part of of of it in the ma is the the width is this inctercocpp
14 NICAhAGUA CANAL.

Mr'. IoLiTTLE. I Imemi iin width and dimiiensiois.

( (4mii l Lli to. No, the canal is Hot laid out on dim

irc :as oflier canals.

Alr. )OOlTi'TLE. \iWhat other caials eXceed it il dimienis

Colonel ILuDL OwN. Tlie SicZ is one with whlich cmlpaIis

ialv III'ide, being lie only one silrilhir ill ifaciiter, you Ii

this Nic-araua (hial.

MIr. DJOLiTTL'EE. HI it these plaIwS cioitmphiate a larger pl

Suez \\-]etl it was comipleted

COl lc LUi)L Ow. Y es, quite true; but the Suez people ftn

S'lry to 111creIse it.

All'. STENwA 11-. y regrd ir. Miinocal as a comilpeie

COloel 11 LuDtow. I do liot think the (iiI1iiilittee really wo

to answer tihat question. Is it is lite Iersonal.

Air. ST:wAir'. I withdr.aw the question.

Colonel LUDOW. I would rather you would not ask 

wNI)Ill have 110 objectilO to answering it.

M r. If you- board had spent the time spent 

at Nicanaua, womld hot you then feel comipeteit to express 

-s to the measibility a piracticabhility anld possibility of th

Col el lumIm)v. Ii' we Ii a I speit sevel Or eight years, s

HIere duration in the CoIIIItry has I0t ilhig to do with it

Yom cmld get bett er in form ation frim a in active than anybod

Allr. STE wAN'. I Ut I '(Ill supipsing you were acduly eng

piistcit io of this eliterprIISC.

Colonel RDI1Umv. Oh, surely; ;Iiud it oujit iot to take as 

to get it. We do 10 liesitate to Say that iil 011r rvprwt. W

p)alit v and cmnsidietimi 16fo Mr. Cald am eveyIwo le els

withi the atter. We lIlm o m itagol sm to a1 boy ai1d 

In Frictionl with the com pany. ()tilutI ilns haye been entire

A. SFEWA!,T. The reason I asked the questions was tha

aiii Al r. Eidiott expressed a very fav rble considerali

AlcIken c l's pro es)I'1 sio ability.

( 'omiel LumLow. I like him very nmlleh, but as to his 

ahilily I have 110 other m111mIs ot jligi g except by his wo

Ill1fair to have to coidellill a man aS il ewm! in because he 

able to (10 all tlhe engiinei-Mg. he \Ould like to do. 1 do 

ever. to the statement lie Imaide that the cngigIieernlllg hilas 

cient Iy doIIe. I totally dIs;gIree frmi that, aIl we found it 

thali it) all tilie tiie the cimn piy his Spent on tlt project-

peril bIee'timse it woiil cost a little mIrQ-that ihey h

iIntf(ruml:tIm which the 1w,11,4 re1ied1ad which I appre

eIwginicer will require and will regard as absolutely iindispc

MIr. IBENNETT. YoI said wlen you lhi completed your 

tile r nite you were tit IC1y CII gi neers winh md evcr coveret

ilne of tile canal ?

somietliig not this I have a copy tIt, Colonel There have ireas1u1IIaIly tlhilk paplilet because noI aIld had ale had luntow. I wlich lliuch the faiimiliar'l have S0mIe I c(millillo Ol would tihl pleasure I ever asIpects Liler. witi spent timjue YVis, like, bceii to till' tile sir; oF luIsi with It )f ).o meeting is, loler A1illeri-.\leno'ai mlinie eveinig I overI this the how wi surprised ti1s miitter ever, pliciiimls ld Mr. rmIIissioI it like more exNIIHiM10g' 4Miller, 11ite which to 1esti1mny. recetit ill of postpoiie true, ily oni who the a'1e litera1tu1life the :1Oas coitiis very 1tiln Of m we cuia ii thwv
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

and accomplished gentleman. I have always liked him and ha

indebted to him for courtesies, and I do not believe he intends to 

anything really disagreeable to the members of the board or 

thing disagreeable about them.

I do not believe lie itends to do that any moire than I would 

to do it about him. ie says things here which have no verit

is quite easy to see lie has derived his judgment from the opin

statements of others, and not from his own knowledge. I do 

pose lie would expect a very strict examination of the enineerin

lie has stated there I11l makes points abit. Of course, you und

Mr. Miller is not :m eigi neer, thoulgli dlobtless learned in oth

tions. Bnt there are a goo d mally thi ngs wh ichll need to be covere

inquiry, and mere personal mati ers I would like to defer, beca u

is an aspectof that which is somewhat serious, and, with the pe

of the committee. I w(ild rather eo over the techinical matters 

have taken occasions to make some notes, and I have certain da

at the outset I will endeavor to lay before you. The board f

examiniing the c8iianl literature. vNery nimerons 8id more or less 

statements with rega 'rd to tile iiivestiga tn of this p rojeCt by A

and foreign ell ngiieers-Eiig isli engineers-someimes individual igiiteers and soietimes a bowrd of einginers.

We found many rreienciwes to that matter, and naturally 

desirous of knowing what English 814 other enginers had inve

the subject. We had before us the publications of th (icom

reports of the board-a con sultationu board in New York, wich

senits an American board. call Q1 from the iiame of the ciairm

Eogart board. We had that 1bef're us. Their it was determine

out who these English peoil e were. The board could not get 

information on the sulject either by inquiry or correspoin(li i

board wrote finally to Mr. Menocal amd asked Ii m who they w

lie stated in elfect lie was not at liberty to state what the repor

as they had been confidential, and while lie 1had beeni inform

were of a favorable character lie was not prepared to furnis

Later on the thing became more definite.

Presently there was a publication byCaptain Merry, associa

the canal, anld who is very much interested and enthi usia stic 

to the effect that there was an estimate made by a board of 

eiiieers corrolbrating i! Ar.M nn al's estimate to within : 4,;0) . And

Mr. Miller, unless there is a iiis-print in this, hias stated to the co

that the report of an Engilish engineer cOrr(1borated Mr. Alleioca

a million dollars. Well, we foulld the name of the eliginieer t

Don>aldsm, a gentleman foriterly connefced with the Maiichie

Canal and now connected with the Londmn and Eatst India D

man of repute and cOisidlerat-oti. I was ; very imch p leai ased a

an opl)ortuiity of ileeting Mr. Donaldson in LonldlOn. I talke

about this since his niamne was meitinied, ad1 he was surprise

aspect the subject. follows: Cha ragua and DEAR The "The n on permission Ier Canal diesc'ription patge cost of STR: of We thComieree 26 by of The the the William wrote case of board of following canal the thatid ofirst is L. cnAml has committee, San recently M\Irry, ite staitement NICARAGUA an been Firancisco is way official evidently pin very rportincg receipt his read appears: and carefully CANAL letter nameobtainet other briefly of to copies COMPANY, to behad responsible estimated publislied Mr. what from been of .'ew Menocal, a ptimphlet the AizMY 1w Fork, used. by bodies. by record Engineer m October BUILDIauthor41Mp whiI on y's:1wi
150 NICARAGUA CANAL.

anl by two boards of consulting engineers, one in the United Stat

E1K u l. Melneal makes a cost of $65,041,176, exclusive of bankers

i &isnu is oin ste lit ics, and interest duritig constrniction. The Eiiglisl

this byN >6sMUI, a remai:Irkable concurrence.

Will y ii be kiii I ei imgh to give the board st mel information as you may have rel

tivi to the coniposition or personnel of lie Englishi board of enwi

relprt 1rferenii ce was made, the nature of its in \esligAtion of the cana

it wa:s made, a ids what were the nnit prices iipmon which the boar

1;(l000,ore or less, of excess of the conpmny's estimate was based

Very truly, yours,

WILLIAM LUDLOW

Mir. A\. G. 1\IENOCAL,

(hicf dnqinecr. e'c., Vrooklyn Nary-Yard.

Colonel LUnLOW. Now, if you please, I will read Mr. Men

and then I xill read one more letter, and that will close th

UNITED STATES NAV

Ner York, O

DAI ) -,]: Pefe]Trring to your letter of the 1st instant. regrariling the statement

coltainel in a p:amiphlet, on the Nicaragna ('anial published by \Villia

which Ile states thait the estima ted cost of tle ca"li as computed by a 

lishi engineers exceci s the estimates muade by me by $600,000, I call on

to yoir iig liii 'll5es, I Ihat, ill lily opinion Mr. Alerry refers to the report ma

Dni Idi in, chief engineer of the LondIin and East India Dock Compan

cat e that ellployeiI him to visit Nicara gna and examine the route of 

pr posed plh s, estimates, etc., and to report his conclusion thereon

11 r. I IoialdIsoll was at the time engineer in charge of a section of t

Ship Canal.

He visited Nicaragua with another engiieer of the Manchester C

Alr. Goochi, assnei at ed within him in the in vestigat I1n in 1891, and insp

of the canal, the pIalls, the work then in protgriess, etc., spending a b

it] thie country. They tell wet to COsta Rica allot exalilnedI the lnca tio

ill that coulintry, in lie interest of the sallle sVIIlicate, after which th

I 'iited States, visi te(d the Sault Ste. Marie Cal, and spent considera

Nicaragna JCanal Comipalny's office in New York, exaininig tie plans, 

the cmay

I am at Iilierty to say, regarding his report, beyond his unreserved 

me a11(1 I timink, to othI ers in London, to the effect that le had full

pro) , ject as proposed in the comipany's plans, and that his estimate of 

(iis to the one Imlade by Ille. \Whether the difYerence was 600,000 or 

11t prepared to state. Ills report is private property of the syndicate 

li, anid, as tar as I know, has not been published.

Very truly, yours, A. 

Col. \wILLIAM1 LUDLOW, IT. S. Engineers,

Chairman icaroflmaq Canal Compainy.

Colonel LlTDLOW. I took occasion, in meeting Mr. Donal

don, to inform himn That lie had been rather prominently m

tivelv quoted as indorPinI this project, and asked him it 

me k ,ow what his views were on the sub ject, as it was a ma

interest, aId I 1omiid him ill the first place s1pised at the 

been Ii made of his name, and, in the second place, entirely 

to ()(cCup]y the p osi tion in whi(Ah these various comm1 niun icla t i

and lie asked fie if I could sugg'oest to him any way by wh

offici.i think to cAtions raguaectify iighi a 0Od require yINli SAR it and ilythat write to tlienly phul. COLONEL Somi the or Ihic somne matter just othierwise, confidential me repiirts, ren I of to a will Iliw: the letter so ks etc., ]iow 109 refrvnics frmoi fa4r in report t of 1 toyself ) on as read EADENIIA me. mny draw Englslih he the e which ferming way in I you was you] subject 11li(lerstallI the LL to engineers I his ie made our concertied. attenition Maritime SmET, conversation desired, letter: if to that, mny herefer I officially the C principals 0NDON, chose, it and other nal toli:us I evening, Company's stated thee been E. toi al(d visit thouon a IC., 4tilicpoiimy I to AI 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

it not that estimates are specially dwelt upon in the publications I have 

and that I understand that you have received ani official intimaition t

effect, I should not deen it worth i whilo to write to you on the subject, bt, seeing

that I am represented as having made estimates with a view to tal 

ask you to understand and to represent my views of the case (which are 

to your (overnment.

As a portion of my confidential report it was part of my duty to colle

tion as to the probable units of cost of work in Nicaral.f, and to ca

effect I adopted, avowedly without any checking. the Iiogures shown, as 

ties of work to be done, in the canal report of 18o. For the purpose o

it was not necessary to check these quantities or discuss any point whi

ered, and still consider, necessary for the proper completion of the ca

matters which I have mentioned iay in some c:lses tend to decrease cos

out doubt, the net result would be a large increase upon the total for 

estimate. My report being confidential, I am unable to grive von the t

arrived at, but even if I gave it you I do not think it would be of any 

ing that in many cases I drew special attention to the fact that the info

insuflicient, and that, therefore, I could do nothig but take the units of 

bly for the lock gates-which were shown in the report of 1890 I have 

and, moreover, the total which I arrived at would be by no means reliable 

at the total cost of the canal, as I only included net costs and allowed 

nothing for contingencies. Under these circilnisl:meces it appears to m

leading to suggest that any estimating which I did can safely be taken 

my opinion as to what the total cost of the canal will aniount to, both o

the indefiniteness already referred to with regard to the locks, and a

other points which appear to me to require revision.

Yours, faithfully, H. F. DO

Col. WM. LUnow, Embassy of the United States, London.

Colonel LUDLOW. You will observe what a different aspec

ter immediately presents by that letter submitted to the com

a part of the record at the request of Mr. Donaldsoni. lie w

there to make unit prices. He had 11o means of checking q

measuring, or leveling. The pe ple who sent hin there 

know what the work would cost per cubic yard, or mile, or 

looked over the project, that of 1690, and there were a g

things which he regarded as of serious moment, but, it maki

unit prices he took no account of these, and in making his est

no allowance for contingencies in it. I know otherwise wha

is, but I am iot at liberty to state it. It would not be satis

those who believe that it is an ind(rsement of the company

within a $1,000,000, or $(00,000, or X600,000.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I suppose it would show what was in hi

the time?

Mr. WANGER. As to the unit prices.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And all the other matters embraced iii it

Colonel LUDLOW. 1 only present the matter in pursuan

Donaldson's request, and I have discharged my duty in doing 

Mr. PATTER'SON. His report is not a part of the record?

Colonel LUDLOw. His report is not a part of anybody

because confined record company, Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel PATTERSON. DOOLITTLE. PATTERSON. DOOLITTEE. before it there. but LUDLOW. LUDLOW. was the made made committee? If As the I Of To If understand to the you I Mr.report course, his understand company Walker, do, employers, to you it his it may saw is will the employers it, afit great be lie confidential and have to made easily submit as English to in far get no made England. as report report. it, contracI we asamcoI pato
152 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mancihester Canal. who I leaked Iiad a large amount of can

sale.

Mr. .1(Y. Did y0u get his estinat c

Cloiwel LUI)LO W. i have it Coiiideintially.

Mr. J( r. Directly fr-omi Mr. DonalsonI himself?

C'4inel LITDw. [No; I can not say that. I say I got it 

Ie did not consider himiself at liberty to communicate it, 

the realsmn he stated what ihe did. aId f(r the additional rea

wwuld 1e 1f no value, while is a fact. because it is a mnere ta

1111it prices wlicli represeinted the exercise of hiis judgment 

ter, and1 a taking of the company quantities wiieli lie di(d 

check and l11 no imeals of checking, so he worked p t Hie 

quantities an d hi is )wn unit prices and arri ved at a column 

Now, yiu can add those up. There are serious additions 

D)aldson regarded as necessary to the project ini order 

satisfactory aS ai enginern project, and there is 1o item 

gecies in it, S lie only put iii a few t lioisand dollars in ord

111) a round sum.

M11r. J1n. Then you are familiar substantially with the de

report made to Iis principalI?

Colmnel LITDLOW. Not in the least. I have not seen a wor

do nlot know of it except wlat Mr. Donaldson (chose to co

to ie.

Mr. 'Joy. I understand 'yoII had soine infPormation outside o

you have read ?

Colonel LUDLOW. I have had some information.

Mr. Joy. Goingo beyond the substmce of the letter?

Colonel LUDLOW. I havye the communication o 'Captain M

Mr. Joy. I meai in reference to Mr. Don aldsoii's report?

Colonel LUDLow. Only what I got Iromn a friend of his w

aware at the moment tliat Mr. Donaldson had said anytliing 

ject. and (le had not at tiat time in fict. The only thing I 

the mat ter is of coirse Mr. Donaldson's statement whiichi he 

me to sulbinit t hie ('0111it tee 11ere, or to my G1overnment, as 

Air. Jo Y. You Ih ave tIhe statement bec:Imuse you have grone 

bly beyond the contents of the letter itself, anI(1 that is th

asked if you 1had seen the full report ?

Colonel LUDLOW. No. sir: personally I have no furthe

tion.

Mr. STEwART. lxir. Donaldsoin is an enthusiast in regard 

ragua (amal?

C(h 10el LVI)OW. Oh, no; lie is not an enth usiast about 

ir. STEWART. ut lie is strongly in favor of it?

Colonel DL w. lie 41hI not say so. All I talked abou

Donaldsoi was the question of his name being use(d as ind

project and estimate, aml I (lid not ask hiim what he though

abroad repinr and material; over into enterpirise. Cob ,1ir. Mr. other working sitili iiel JOY. JOy. ? in ciently LuTOW. but canals looking Was You allI have the that ?devoted into I I not visit ime " t other ben almost. a for lia considerable the r'e canals abile purpose amountnd to and accumulated sit of of portion down estin making data, long atin of and a this enoiglh your Iarge I in wainvi
NTCARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. I had iinstrletionJis Inmil the War Departm

Mr. Jov. And it wis not for pleasure!

Colonel uiL U )w. It was a pleasure in one selise, but it was very

hard work{ il another. I 1h:ad orders from Ole Depa:tmilent to 

Mr. STEWART. Iid you start the iq uiry ini Nieara a wit 

coiceived Opilion of the project. eitlier ill rea rd to the feas

no1easibility of the Aleiocal route ?

Colonel LUmILOW. I t hiouiglt it was all stniiht.

Mr. STEwART. You huad a preconceived opini m?

Colonel LITDIA FW. Yes, if yol like, il favor of it.

Mr. STEIwAET. Amld in fhiv r O( thI lie Men1ocall r)te?

Colel LUDLoW. As I Iundersta11(1 it, tilie e Omp) atiy's raiot

not look into the matter as to who was individmally resp( msi

I did not know, iiecessarily, it was r. i\enocals route.

Mr. STEwART. Tihienu Your investigation removed tlit pre

opin ion; you r fiurthier inivestigoa tio an1!d stl1ily of Nica ragu na 

that preconceied opinion 0

Colonel M )UITw. Opillioli, if voli like, and tie turn of 

mid my view of it w4re entirely fa-vo1a e. hld read tie r

the company, ill whihb it was stiated that the in vestigaitiol was 

a11nd full it every par ticlzair, th iAt there was n0 pr4Oblcm left 

that every siuvey h1d been ima(e, that horin.(,s 1had been 

whole lengtlh of the cal, '11d sfo om, and so om; and I comld 

believe, of couse, t1ha the investigations had been made as tho

it was represented to be. We fmnind it was in t.

Mr. STEDwAT. Duri n your invest station did any hi)stilit

way arise?

Colonel LUDLW. Not inl the least. Out relations w ere very 

and there were only one )r two joints of Iriction, 1 mase M\II. 

hiad Oie view abou 11it i 's m1d we Iiaold i nlth(1r. iHe tlioulg4hlt 

be better, for example, Io pursue a certain 4iurse, arram ta 

taking' it up1) in a certain way; aiid alter we looked into the m

selves we found, from m)1- p)oiit ot View. ill Oir judo-ment, it 

better to chiaiige this irrangemient. and there was a little fricti

that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. This occurred abmit the ill vest i nation?

Colonel LUDLOw. Yes.

Mr. DoOLITTLE. zAmi ( you camte baick 1mifre fial \ bly impressed with

the general teasibility of t Ile canal than you carried with you w

went down there?

Colonel LUtLOW. I 8Aii Sorry to say I Ihd grave do1ts.

Air. )oOJIATTLE. Of the whln e project-alblut the feasibi

Codonel LUDLOW. About the w lle pro ject.

Mr. DI)oiTniTLE. Were tHWey d oulb ts abIft tMe wiole project

Colonel LUIL(ow. I hlm great dobts ibout the teasi bility.

Mr. DoOLITTLE. O(f the entire project? reoaruded this, Juan we Colonel Mr. Colonel Thereupon Mr. adjourn that,River, NIOONAN. BA RTLETT. as LUDLOW. and LuDLOW. until etc., indispensalble the the I 2 a:nd committee would Mr. o'clock oher. Yes WhIy, -we C(huairnma, like could and We had there adjourned you the not asked n10 to it was hearing find state is been wIhfat iow to out. the the met obtained. be 12 were falct44 contintlud o'clock, at iaracter the that 2 p. floods in. We and od-ata of tien. ask

theI in mw
1) 1NICARAGUA CANAL.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW-Contin

I desirie to refer to some remark s which I made in answer 

little, 1nd about which there may be some misapprehension 

I meant. lie asked Ile as to lily disposition towar-d the pr

gillg there, and J stated ti iat it was entirely favorable; 

asked fie as to illy disp 1sition when I rettinred, and I stated

(iisciUrioingr. Laier. of course, we had n investig-ation i

about tlie c(li a, wien we went over tie colony's data. 

from that a little more favorable opinion thani we had w

camn back, aid I will state why. WVe commissioners were 

almost sleeping, togethlr. mid, our conference w8s continu

of lily own im1lICSsi , beCaise I d8 II ()lily do tliat. So 

company's pject w' cmcerned, I col1d not sce a liy way b

(chioa Dmil clid be built ill thie way fi1 Nwlicih the company 

to build it. Failing Ihis, if a site fr a nmasonry (lalt could n

it did 1IO(t sei t prIact 8icble to bu ti Iiigl-level cnl8 at al

8 ltern1l 8tive wm l( be t aa1)8ndn tliat and bilI a1 low-level 

the river, s li(l beei pIPmsed by 4hilds and Lull.

Ar. Alcien l's views upon tis question were extremely 

it wouldi be 1011114 implrIcticable. Wiat I had ini mitd to 

I could ]lot see bowy, wili the Oclhoa Dm ) .I-, pr-1jected, we 

a. hihl-level calal, :11d it -Ali-. Meiocal's views as to ' low

were correct ai1d( there was o otier lternativc, le ca

feasible, but we f1nil1 mean Is liter to reaci a better jitdg

fuller exN81IitiltiinI of the whole Sllbject; aid the result is 

in the statement m1d4 ill the lepOrt, from witicli we have 

depar-t, tha1 thle cmislictim (t' (I cil on he Nicaragn

entirely feasible. 1 (10 not think there is a d(ibf but wh

doite. how it can 1 best be done and what it will cost rema

determined.

I say tfhis because ill conferncltc( wi thi iy collea gine and 

about the niatter we tloiiglit there miighL.t be a misIpprell

what I intended to say. I do hot wish to have al ymie 

there is aly doiUlt ill the mill(ids of the 'oard, as cgiIe

Colstrnctioii of 8 ('n18 is feasible. -1 1lthink it is celtaily 

I have referred, Al '. ( 'hairan, to the 1m8ttcr of the refe

and anthioritics 1uotoed as "the EIglishi elnginleels." I wo

briefly to) rIei'r 4) tlh 1111 tel of tle l(m8t(t o4 AlrlilI ca

have considered this subject. We have a copy of that r

has beet bliShed a lhig NvIile. It was waide Alay 9, 188

ber of eniiweeis whio sat inl New York mid examiiied the 

slnlmlitted to I lttlm, 811(d who considered thte Subllject as caIre

coild frl mll that stallo) int alnme, witliotit a per1n4'I a1II ill ve

the (1011mp11 d1id nlot there at maude althouIgh C0ompany'-\s another belive Isthmlttls iot lu(d by *y We discuss wore tl bee S's estilmite. point. thlat stick 01' dta m 'mlle m. ithle :s Iisit ;n in Tlie ill Ihe N1 \\-rIws I Ill ih si14ide1rstml w r'elporlt to)he iogart cel w' ml. lave mne-thilrd, lmmat liill for-\iw'ded ist r repcrt pr-ep're oad board hums, her'aIise, li it lmd 11114s I is Ig,~g ()1 lln we appenidix' beenl but for states and vlticl "5 did m k f11m to per- f themi. n1(0 ng wthat semed Ifmr iil -clit, an Other refer filt ex Th'le I iinf.ormacated. grajtwill hasti) rcasmto toic
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the usual way the maps, usinirg the company's data and, la

company's quantities, although they make, a considerable di

the estimate of the work. At the bottom of page 2 the bo

"These locks are shown by the borings submitted to be all f

rock."l

The next publication that appears on the subject is the 

Financial Location, which followed 0 nionthis later; at least 

under date of January 31, 189. If you will look inl that r

will find that it is nowhere stated that any of the locks are f

rock, as in ftact they are not. If I am not very much in erro

material to which the fouldatimi of locks is attributed il Air. 

report of 1890 is "solid (ground." Evidently the in foriatio

the Bogart board was seriously iteorrect in that particul

please. That board was led to believe by the boriiigs submitt

for their examination and for the exercise of their judgment 

hiuge locks, such as the world never saw, and perhaps ne-v

tremendous constructions, were to be fotided in tie "solid 

the chief en ginteer's report, which followed soon after, miiakes n

to that "rock," but does to "solid (groid."

We thought the Bogart board should not 1ie lieid respo

their statement, but they increase the company's figures one

yet the compaiiy's report miak es no use of those figures. Mr

estimate in 1690 is the same as it was before, without payi ig 

tion to the recommendiations of this 1 ard of eungieers, and 

seem to me that it was altogether a fair way to treat the boar

board did not undertake to discuss it, for that reason, among 

There may 1 e some mimsappreh enision about tiis, beca Use th

this Bogart board have 1eeni referred to as being used by the 

and it is true in a sense, perhaps, but iot in a correct se

Bogramrt board made a constructioi accoUt, not an initterest ac

took no acco ut of financial expen ses. It, is a eiinmeer's or 

tor's estimate, with allowances for conting)'encies. There are 

neous charges in it. The company has used the Bogart board 

made it cover finamicial and incidental expenses also.

Mr. WANGER. I would suggest tiat ii stead of using g the w

you designate it more clearly, so that the stenographer's 

show it.

Colonel LUDLow. That is quite correct. The company's es

the same nature, but they are engineers' and conlstructors' acc

is true the company used the figures which were before inclu

the additional expenses, and have gradually arrived at a prob

to include financial arrangements of perhaps one hIundred 

But it put the Bogart board at a disadivantage. I trust your 

will not have any unnecessary misapprehension oi that point

like to go through this matter as fully as I may, because 1 wi

you understand it before we get through. I have been g'oni

testimony he of and some but ing be;engineer It meant surprise. there data, but Mr.struckemifacetious Miller-I lie and to isbecause here no used be me staff Inl intention disagreeable with the aswill lie of reference much singular information testimony is the not not tcompany. haste hold criticise persomially in to in reference Mr. which it. and very looking Mr.iller I somcaimusement, presume has properly acquainlted Miller, to responsible at been the this board, because he which given intended with that but for heand by it, I any the lie dogt Mana 
04 PHTJP[IlOAk. 0111,s X)VAk. lITuIT M011j 'ol[MAOI I 1V1A C 111V

) Of Iit, 1!)111JjLL 11U l 

-041L 111 01it4 u)I popiw~.I oxvq Ij 11"11V:11 o.1~ ~~ 8 I 

'4d)J0!. IIO ik It11~[ (fto~k 

()I p0~ tll:)s OAJ'.j 0 1,1.I1 QSO 0 4 11J.111) \[4811141[LI 1 1 'pill ' 4

p.Jj0[311 -tooILHI 'I f ()(, OM0f 'I[1 811 441 IIA\01[8 ti)Atl1 I 131101884J(M mim

p~1v 01-Im'IdlU," )II4 Jo sou114.J* 4131[A\ l1[tj, .0(t 04 4011 ,,, 811

11.10110,1114 *'0 04 O'l0A sp[)880A '111o) 11114 114W . T'',;,-4 4111 ) 2111 T I t) 

*1[I8ossomht11I 4110d) .Jij) 1, 101)1111 11000[ pu3ll K\\ 0)1[14 I 

*0 I U 111-1113 '11l ' s11l2f 04 8 1( ~ l 41 1A 1431 1l4 

to I)~10 tuil' 's t )1113 1 ~ oslAn 13 ' VA1p1 1110 11 ! Imp 

04 )OW,0411,4MI0,1' 'JU ~ 'Ilo u~ppiu "" J ,3)m 

JOJ 'I 1otoI) 1its1 s 1 i1{ us13 4.010d -.I 0[j *4T -p9) O 31 1 U1P 

Y I )t' w 010 1u'v 4! doop) 4ootU8~o 04 81o1111l ij 'u.)ip jA 

alp3 114 111 0ll"00(j '40.J 01011A JI) 04 1 L1-['l 04 {OAO[ 4p11ul-is 

04 opt(ss0d a41111) )(1I iAj. 41 J! 14 1 3 4131[ 8A138 A\(I OXM~iII

j

411*t : [OA.) 4I111118 01'14 " 40jt31', 1.0d JO 4 1l J 1 11Pj .) [[P11

111 OpUltI 8'UAX. 4,10(10J 1110 0,41118 papk134 81 4r111 4Vl[4 p'H [{1

0114 4ult4 p1314 OAX AXIPI )LI piLIIII .1011101 alp sumA j) 1 4mll[ pos

PO)KXt 4011 S1 {OA0j11Ll8 S II[j 4V131l0141088113 1t )13111 '1)(11 

SU. 10114 A) () p 4IJ~a '0 (q 41311 I)8pq p1*s.X llj 1 1 PA 1,1 

LOAOt 41114 AW[O )). t0S138 Il Ott11 004 .)0M 81 [4(10 [) 01il *[d0d[ 08 

()If p) II111111111 l)0X![ 1U 41 )01 -)(1 404 swIM. 'q4ul 01[4 40 Io~wf 

413114 110d'10 .l( an Li 005 1[1iA 110A) 813 '0u111111-) o ~tp LI'odt 

'131{ O0A\. lo, r[d 4s114 0114 lif *A1111h1 81l[ I Iloolli .- 1ii1I Odj dlt'I1, 

p1113 0011134.1*dlL Ol p81141 0114 Jol oT AI 4011134.!00 i 1114 04 J

l)[110-kk JM 41113 )!~ dd 0114 41l((t 'S0'13 'L j JO 'S01105 L Sl ,1 0 

-odoaid ltoq,' tit 80 11 131jo p40114p 110'ot) u J[U3i[ ALL011I!4804 tl' 

-P!S11O ddpl)I,, MON 11145 81) .li4.t *4dv~ q8w 413114j p0 "'oilil

01l0111 .1 11 [1041301 ~14 01 1140) 01WpVt 1 1100*1p 7 11*P *M

Aw.01 u 0'4 'TLik4s0A 1308' ut0(qpw.13 0114 1114011 .~1I14'[*[p111 

pa)oAtOsp 081 OIlLj *413q4 10)3 Odlruol i,)jj0q I. piinuj 1):1 AI 

j),.AO~t,( jA q Jjj '01311[ 411011 N 111 1310 0J081011,I Ill,"S )I 0[ Io 'p) t lr'I J

lit 04113111 1100(1 41131[ 4110111011 4813f 011 41' 0.'Olut 1 13. 3 114 1:11 

Z1!4 13 p0111100013 0([ 0411048 I H

1 8 "l" 13 t8 'mo .Llp2 JA v ) 

413 )04U4110 113 1)113 ptoq plus, I4ulpol saI k 8 1A) l')1t p l3'0 'O

SIOAISlUVX0 j),080111110).) 0(t 04 0,0 A.01f4 413114 1H1(1 .PA 111.Hj 

0111130 OA. t101{AX 411(t 11;0.11 Pil), AIJIIOSML JO 00V1d .141[401113 III I)I

OU0*4s5 p)111 040.t)1100 .() 4[1'l Ott(q 040LO 0AOI 111 pl:. 41 d.')l j(

*p.Pso(Iul10.) ")ol 04 IOAXi~j 1t.)111\ p) 511311d11311 o.)114) ji 411.i1101

04 pso(I01d SA13*110) 114 110111.w 8'-4J0[ 41"m") 0114 I p ()~t 131 

01oil t)0 041101t' t1!34 0LO -A U-"A~ qmv.1 d 0 t111 '.001 t) )11 44)01,0,14 S1.IO )111348 0 4011 11 oL)1[J 1A 1)1110 Od )IS13X 0Ak %OA\ 4 ILL 13 St1l1 010 M4M3111 411(1 *111( 11 11043 JO 1 UPIo() ~1,I 11011 ',A13AA. 0 1) ) 413 'qVNVJ ;0S 40 O 13.'480A 11',] .111 (1 Uf(; 1j3 1 0I I[ Ill J7Ill (1\0) ll01114114A.A[1.Hl Ob.IO~l 10 '1)011141,100 41!114t III 01) viPJlvilVJIM 0 41l1W p')X 01 [ * JOAO l[ x AI[3 1 it! I1A 413111 [,).I38.~ plir lit,),) 4081S1 111J. I~ 401111. pIPI 1111 I,)([ a11.1 0pi um 011 l,\\ IJ~ 811 oJ8qr IIA (W (q11 A11 11) (1't *,tl 4 4101j po'P8 J13 j1ilj 0A 114131 1*pa
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

cross the Istlmitus. Two to 4 feet would make a great differe

the Great LIkes, 2 to 4 inches are serious. It is sometimes 

detriimental to Like iiavigatioin it the dept fi talls off, froimi 2 to 

As to the variation of stuiiiit level, I apprelheld 110 e1ginC

ofIiceri, or slipanster wotild reg'aid it as admiis1sible ill a w\-mr

kind. I want to quote soiuetliing ill reference to this as stat

testimioiV o the chic ineer of tl e Ciian1 y.

Ml'. 1)OOLITTLE. W\hei'e do you fiHd that stateiineiit?

Colonel Lum1oW. It is oil page 61.

ll'. DOOLITTLE. Is that the verbal statement, or the m

statement?

Colonel LUDLoW. That is iin the paper. It says:

The xin\ iui flitut nation of tho lake level, as Iiar as can be determine

information obtainal de, is about 10 fet.

I may say tlm$tt the comipa'ny fo )rInierly esmiinatc( it t a bot t5 f

board( wvere in(1i ed to believe fr mi wN hat it asceriicd thiat 

was 12 to 14 feet. We were satisfied tlzat it was iuelh mor

feet. This was first ascertaiie4l. ill All. Child's surveys. i

very competent nan, and w-as tile first One to Iole the Lt'ct

the lake, amid ite found it 5 fret, and the comip:1ly tOok his es

it, which is all old one; but we tot nd1(I it wi s 12 to i 4 I

mnarks oi the banks. It is now 10, accomding to the stitemie

company. - iie level he disregards, and he may be quite rig

it. Theit lie says:

The flow of the river will e inore Un 1iforii by reasonl of eliai'rted sectio

the created storage reservoirs and lessened I u ctuations of lake lel; a

intelligelit 1nagement of tile sluices alod weirs, at both the weterni ;1

ends of the suiiimit level, there is no reason why the lake shumild not e 

within 1A feet of the assumed 110-foot lcvul, as proposed in the comialy's 

it the second paragraph, lage 70, lie says:

The board attaches considerable importnee to retainin, the lake level 

110, and believes that any fall from that levcl will be illjiirions to naviga

river and canal. There is no famidnhtion for that, statemienit. The ('a i'1 i

to be, ultimately, '0 feet deep throwhoit from ocean to occ all, It il orde

first cost of constrtictioni the river sectioll and the sea-level sections oI.le 

been estimated with a depth o1:is feet, the alditionall 2 fPet 1to e excavate e

canal is open to traffic. It is claimed that the lake level cn be m inlitain

range of : feet, or within 1A l'eet of 114), ma tHi' oalrd does iot seem ho 

Should the lake fall 1s, ina'hes below the 110 moot level, the excavated chat

river will yet have a depth of 2W feet, or 6 inches more than the Manc

Suez CanalsThat is an error as to the Suez Canaland the sections of canal in excavation a depth of 28 feet, or leemper tha

canial ill the world. That is to say, the lake may Call 2 feet below the ass

mit level, 110, and alt the si'ctionls of tile river and cauml in excavation will 

deeper t0:1an ay other canal 10Nw inl successIl I operation, anid there is no 

rleasoll wvliv this canal shotild be made deeper than experience has onclsiv

to be sufficient elsewhere.

feet lvel sumliit that that caiial--still beei Colonel The Air. or itit that will DOOLITTLE. lake, is more, level. may intended means LuDLOW. be have thlen, not vary permnitted would permitting a according to that sufficient Do I permit Umler's yoi be to ic tikez vary gther to it d(epth suith 'and tohis, an1111 to fall f1ro1 that a ?may maintain or yet variation, below even this tileremlia vary110 statement stippl)IsitiolI 2 inii even that feet o01 feet. deeper does sunmmit 2 below feet. I of' lie say tha,1n1 1i0'et Mi. the simpThlevthiAa 
158 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. Menocal's was an entire surprise to me, as it was to al

had a brief conversation within Mr. Noble ill New York, mid Mr

conFerred with us in Waslihington, and we all ag-reed that wa

time we heard of that proposition, and (idit believe such a p

was ever heard of before.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Still, no one would undertake to say wh

the minds of those gentlemen.

Colonel LUDLOW. That is true. I am not desiring to extend 

cisms fur her than what the engineerhifg facts would warran

say no canal was ever constructed on that basis. You obs

that the navioation ceases to be a 28-foot iiavig-ation as the le

lake falls. It is assumed that the variation of the lake can 

hated within 3 feet. The board has serious doubts wheth

possible. Although we had rather limited material to work 

nection with this matter, you will find it arguled in our re

believe that the regulation of the level of the lake within 

matter of extreme doubt. It is very doubtful whether it ca

lated within that fig-ure. We do not know its maxinmun ra

board measured the water marks, but there is still an u

about it. We believe it varied as much as 14 feet.

Mr. ENDICOTT. A little over that.

Colonel LUDLOW. Mr. Menocal in his statement here adm

first time, that the tluctuation of the lake is about 10 Ceet. 

be 10 feet, what then ? Suppose you can not regulate it wi

Suppose you can not regulate it within less thani 5-feet ran

variation has to take place, above and below. You might 

increase, but call you stand the 2 or 3 feet of loss ? I think 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. At all events, you suppose the excess can 

care of?

Colonel LUDLOw. No; there would be another serious diff

Mr. lOLITT'LE. But not beyond engineerini g skill to cont

Colonel LUDLOW. I believe nlot.

1M1. 1 )(OLITTLE. The river takes care of it now?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, with a lot of surprises in it.

Mr. DooLrTTLE. There are always surprises about high w

Colonel LUDLOW. It depends upon how Iihi you get 

measured the range of the river there, the company assumi

of 5 feet, we determined beyond question that the river ha

feet, because the residents pointed out to us where it had c

track on a siding" on the bank of the river which measured 21 

low river.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That river does not rise as much as the O

Colonel LUDLOW. iNo.

Mr. SHEIMAN. Who pointed out this to you?

Colonel LuDLOW. \Ve inquired about. all siich matters at e

wiere we h ad an opporttillity to make an invest igation, anid 

ourselves and say, high 4ould water? the Voul Mr. colonel Machuca l make "Th it doJOY. was. get l so. in LUDLOW. our water the Atthis We Rapids, measurements what station case came did At part this; front upstream pi) mflaster Macluca, of on tihe purstied the tilis accordiil.dy. bench to river toward sill," ahout indicate this miarks, did and course IS Lake you tIiheiN miles how Tlie you find Nicaragua. at we mito-1it hiigh station above every thatcould vvatcr call ()cho

poinexcemaest
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

elsewhere marks that would raniige 14, 15, 16, and 18. This 

higwhe.t we saw. I think it was 21 and somethiig. It was 

surprise to us. We were not prepared to biid that, because t

had always been referred to by the coiipaiy as equable, and 

ticular fact that was urg-ed was that it was mot subject to flo

is declared over and over again in the canal reports that the 

not subject to floods. That depends, then, on what you call a 

Mr. Joy. Did that high water result from excessive rainfalls 

the lake itself?

Colonel LuDLow. You know the river is imade by the flow o

lake.

Mr. Joy. But the rainfall would have somethiiig to 0do with 

Colonel LuDLOW. Certainly; there might be a heav y rainf

the lake which would fill the Tpper Sat Juan very full, an

might at the same time be a flood in the San Carlos, which 

desperate stream indeed at times, as is aolthitted by everybody 

looked at it. It is subject to heavy rainfall and floods. It p

of those mountains 40 or 50 miles away, aid tears down with 

oscillations. That is the character of the San Car s river. 

question, when you have high water iii those two rivers awl th

tumbling in you get a rise. In the MacimUa U a11Thi ds the water m

have risen very high. It was dammled up there, as it were. It 

have been as high elsewhere. I do not believe it was. We 

know. We have not any figures.

I do not want to detain you on this point any loger. Anot

point is this: This project is always referred to as havimig be

worked out-that is, that the information is complete; that 

reports are complete. We fitd now for the first time that it is a

that it is not complete; that the reports are not complete, w

regarded as complete. The project is not "1 Ii ial," but "1 orig

"approximate," or "preliminary." Phrases of that kind ar

which shade off the meaniniig very considerably. If the comp

frankly said to us, " This is a preliminary project; it still remai

completed, and we recognize the fact that there is much infiorm

be had," it would have abbreviated our labors a great deal, bec

proceeded on the idea that the iii form) ti w1 \ias complete.

The next point I was going to touch i on I think must be a m

Mr. Menocal speaks of -3,000,000 as the estimated cost of the 

Dam.

Mr. PATTERSON. " InSide of 1%, 000,000 " was his answer.

Colonel LUDLow. That is the text; but I was sure that mu

been a misprint, because, if yo will observe, the company's est

1890 made the cost of that dam-which was the project we had 

sider-- 726,000. We had to consider the buihliniig of a daIm t

that sim. We did not believe a darn could be built there fr $

whether the water ran over it or under it. We had some very 

discussion theain perI since abnormal I in could Mr. the company estimate cent, matters, last SHERMAN. construction not inoand change. on summer, account account for made which thate the cost, In matter. a of While for rock of had your revision this as the such a to estimated sections report, sum the dam? fct While be a of sudden directions of carriedo of its did 1'3,000)0.i;00. of an we in estimates, you the estimate, and were 1895, forward of Ochoa not extensive the coisidering was suggest That change in based into Dam t977,000. order the change. seemed material was ott was it tootal develolast increinclwhoNoctO 
160 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colmiel LUDLOW. 01), yes; very gralve changes.

Mr. Si1E NMAN. 1POssibly M. Aleiiomll, it) cI agiing'i I his esti

cost of coistructionIi, had in view the daml which yout proposed?

Colonel IUI)LOW. I IC(OIeS itlii $1 ,000100 O of oU est

We did not pretend to m na1ke a carin-fii esi Imate, Altough 

best we could inlder the circumstances. We put. down $4

the smill witlin wh icl the di in and its zippitreiiimces coul

Ibe constructed. I (id o 111t uH1ei'st:1n1d Mr. Al noca l's estima

tinii g less than $3,000,1000. 1 tihmight it proper to call tile 

the comimiittee to the fact.

Mr. WANGERit. It is possible that Mr. AlCeiwcal was refer

Cost of one sectioii il giving" tlIt answer.

Air. I l'LE. 'lie (lestion wiis: "At, wiht 1t0 you e

cOst of the Ochoa Dam ? and Mr. Aewal says, 'Inside of) 

Colonel Lu wi . I do not know whit those figures sh

think it is a very whlOlesomie appr)*OxN timn 1)N 0 what may 

1)f that daiim. We est inmate it rowhly. a! I ,,000.

Mr. STEWAT. YOtt started out by :2A,1 ili thlat yo wo

some fia ceti()s renmirks on tile pl,11 of -A'. Alilic0'. N)\w yo

sight of that matter.

Colonel LUmVow. I think I(Ot, bec'ulse I prOpose to coile 

IuII ob ligl fr your ggestionl. I think what lie said N\

to be facetiolns.

Oil the next page, page 60 ot the testimony, Mr. Menocal 

proposed to giVCe the dam -a base Of ablut 1,001) feet. That a

indicate that lie was appro11 ilg to te It iCicrea(sed cube whic

has reconliiinenied, because 1-11c base Of the (1d I11 (as PIVVi o

was to be 500 feet. Ile 1ha1s increased tiat to 1,000 feet.

Mr. 1o)LITTLE. Would that be the leiigtli of the dami

Colonel LUDLow. tp and dowi the streak. No, the le

dam acirOss the streaim 1s a fixed quantity.

Al'. D)4LITTLE. Still it would be built ill the soil on eac

Coloiel Li'1)L4 )W. \Yes, it ilimist be, mid go deeply into i

careful protectii to preveiit the river frOil hlai kinig it. 

poiiit of weakilesIs ill I (11m. That would be the weak 

miasmiry dial- as well, if ili oltier respects it was adequate.

There is aliothier point I would like to refer to. Thiat is a 

wichi stirick all the members of the b(oaird as Cit i'ely n4v

never liarl of before; aidl that was that the ciiel engitee

that La Flor Da in in thie P.a1fic division, wiicli i the board 

impiraeticable, m111 for which tiey would substitute a conno

1mW-leVel cllil ill excavati)lI, it now appemrs thlat l anlOther 

is assuimed--1onl't know wie -anld ht is that the (Iest 

ing a low-level (Lim and basi4 l I s 1eii worked ()t1t . And 

ill the text Our bOlad is reproa1cied f1r hiavii hastily disre

propo))sitii altiwrethler, 1Ot colsidered it, an14d iC ected th

dam, of all. costly ithllat an1d I a assure hieretotOue you low-level a(d I orso woulI (ca1n ws risky alloptiuig ayll 118 youI 1thlier build WC ChiiCes (1da(Lm been kfiw experim1ielits that )IOt 01 the t atre'g-:lr tht Ile it uhiane Lia wester'i: "("I caial low-level Luggsted, is it Flor m' I which i (i qleslitiOI with there tly aind ay dlivisB)Ii. and canal, iilicatioil we, a bymid 111d, a thing loW-level it Ofhat without becaIse ihs cmiorse. of It411lestioil, is from not tais lbsolitely basi reg."ardill' there 11:1\, I been Ile good, magni ii.i -an1d comlpalyl V1Ot is liowJholinio to noudcmthI
NICARAGUA CANAL, 

be justifiable, unless there was some adequate compensate ioll 

risk, and in that particular case the adeqpate compeiisatioii d

exist. If yott abandon a high-level dam you simply lose 4 or 

of basin and substitute for it, 4 or 5 ifles of mi ordinary canal, 

disadvantage ofl doing so is not s11flicient to warrant you il tak

great risk in trying to do the other thing. Th t was the view th

took of it.

There are a lot of references all the way through this testimony 

Menocal to the effect that the ablest engineers of the United Sta

England have said his plans were practical, and that the cost 

exceed so and so. I think I have covered that sufficiently with

ing anythinig further. W\e have looked at the report of the "A

board "aid at the letter from Mr. Donaldson, who, so far as 

ascertain, represents the "Eiigilish board. At aIy rate, li*e (1o

Mr. Menocal's view.

There, is one other subject I would like to speak of. It is the 4

of the San Juan I.iNver-the survey adst i ntes of the Si J ai 

The company's reports alhego with re(gadl to thit-mko 11o ex

of it, at least--that it Ii as bcein tuimighly iiV st igat4. We f

extraordinary discrepancy hetwecii our ligires, as we were 'le 

thiemi, a the (0mp1y'sfigilres on 1-1t; poiiit, andi there ar

remark able statemients with reIard to this Im matter.

It was Mlxr. Miller, I think, anid also iMr. Meuiocal who intiimai

we intended to d(isp1aragIe the ,report iale by the Lull survey of 

can assure you t iat nothing was further fromii the purpoinse of the 

TheLull survey expedition wasa pldlimiimy exped ition. Their 

purpose was to confirm the survey imide by Colonel C hilds t\ven

before, and they did not undertake to ma ke a carheil inst runi1cli tal1 

of theSonJuan Liver. They Ieasuriled aroiid tie falls with tran

level, and for the rest made a hoat aInl gra(hrdinter survey of th

took soundings ill it, anid delermiNed its general depths, ehaninie

and aniong other hiius got ildicationiis with a lead of the natur

bottom. The leadsn call d out travel," "sand," "rock," an

as well as he could deter-minie. N w, ti eve has 1bel 1n) frhi iIher 

gatiol madle of that river. The expense of deepeiniig it is (m

most serious items iin the eiitire project, iand the variitiolls int 

the different sections of thie r iiver are grelt.

We asked the basis of the comuimy's estimate. They flrni

a1, profile of the rioer-a longitudilial section, if you like-whic

said was the basis for estiwnating. It purimolted to le, as they b

it to be, a longitudinal section or profile, derived from the Lull 

What was peculiar about it at once was the fact tlat the pr

drawn did not confine itself to tihe depth of water aid to the 

indications, but penetratad deeply into th bottom down to tile 

the future caial, an(d on th is profile wvere indied ted with I a

remarkable exactness all the various materials of wihiich that ri

was authority composed. Nlow, as a matter of fact, there is not a par

bottom ascertain made Choose will anyMr. Colonel find reason such DOOLITTLE. N to of that C the forexamine LITBLOW. the investigation why submitted. that character 11river. they profile. the W Yes, as They plans should. of since. that They it the The 4id is and profile bottom, a mide Lu Butnot part hi maips survey presented no attempt wheit of andconcealment ' accomuipInlying, their nobody did we to 11t records; to had penetrate you has go of the by it, farther our been and tie compiior rewortm belwVcowitht
I I .)n IIInuJ sI A EI ,,, t 'f I 11 A 

I 

[~l~JI ~~I J)I 14O~ .Itiq o I .1 111() . . 8. ), IIp I[ o I I I 10 1) ,\ l !f[ Jo UO1 

8di.)111u II1I p I * ) w d l(I[ C 0 A lW 11lJ 111 I I'm -tw itpu .1,iio UIm t1 j ' i I I si I14

I" o' f To) p0 s01 t P I Ito I\ IA .1 .'l 1 po : l I I K o .1 I1 P 

1 :1 111:4 1 11 1*Xh 1 : io t IJ I' I '( i1 I p, ) I 

%T III( o I I p)0i Id . h .i l l Aj ti.!

-'(j B altflh a nii 18!lI4ob I[1 ,l8 ) 1 H 101.11 111 0 .) I

I ) ' 811 U.HJI l I 011 lj i I 1 "T I I.ItI n m! i ),I 

luiMU "D j toq )m" I U ,) (m19~u III( Iad Uuk Alt Ie 

:sallis~t 

a! l.)d0 1 )i'a ll I PI:I o *I 111.i l) Io i uI [I mo 0.10111 u

'.1j0.1.1 ) oqlop JdI u Ju! put: .1 ) ' i I [ j 1 I 'g ) Jap ). J1I I jP

'4.10811 108i jo 10. IW d I i1111i 4 :o it I ' m 'o 11J !I I Ia it Ao

W III JAg iit \t 'u IIlid lm),) 1 I"1J I i t Am :) ldJ[ I IJ JO . II w[I p j u d m1 I dI[

'.A ( dAla i .11It ) 8 I111 I I 4 1 1, 11 jAX I I 

10 s111 111 JO) j1I j 8 1 p 111 a I I lit1 I l o III Il i o I I p) -1I1 41? 1 8Iq1 I1 ( Ii I I1 8 11( )Ui.1X 1 W 1 v I I I I{ I q 1 .1 11

1!0 p4 g 11, 1 p Id p8q111p: a 41ip .11q 1r '11 o q 'Im I1g (PIA ' It

41 SIU( P ll p t ' J 1'. l, I Is ,111 1 '' m \7 I I pm 1 iPt I

' In I IagI I ,I I I I )p 0 11' l ' 1I - 1),1 i4t I 

op o~gpl aaxa(I'- s r'I m 3 m 0 ) p1!111q11 1g 

-I)J0l.1o X~'P p ! 1A 414 m )II )11 1? 1p 1p h . 10 111 8.),11171 1 14 a

-.iii tii 1 '0 1 1 1 ! o I I[ w. I11 It:d8 o U 1 I'dV, )d I IU I pu uTiis

J 

pj

ngsink 11g1i 'J. 0 mi jo~mpsa YN Yfl9V 1 V iu mC I, p opN 

H~~dinnaj osa h l i u lpuuo og Mg )1[ 1 )11141 ! uojIoll

omaa~~~~~ ~~~ suIiaIL Iulo )III aa o p Itoau a lta ':140 p u

os Tito 01 (IT 'olt) 111 0!11. Iltif litg p r d 

PI),1 .1") os kIt Hon aM o puTo -,)II 'poluilooa jop ") jo mpuT g u 1wa~ In pill s 'o 1,uq 'Io 1~ 111) l') Iojop Ip popmj TI 1u a ui J jo )III -11 10 ;u'au u 11I'g q
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

I have referred, I think, Mr. Chairman, to the fact that n

staudinpg elaborate surveys and the amount of time and money 

in the surveying and leveling of the section from a Oelioa to Greytow

there is still an uncertahity or discrepalicy of 1 foot ill that leveli

do not know whether I have referred to that. Thee is ain ad

uncertainty of I1 foot of level between i tliose point which has n4

satisfactorily cleared up aid which they at least sought to 

by riuiiiiing another complete line of double check levels from 

towni to Oechoa. 1r. 1Beiiett was in ehiargre of tile work at the time

the parties were finally witliIraiwn. That 1 fot might iit 

difference-a foot less depth, tor example, ill mnakingf' that gr

through the Eastern ID)ivhide or in' the Ziver Sai Juaii would be 

ter of importalee. A toot, more or less, woil ime i ill t h1:at cas

a sumit of Im1O1n1y, certinly en)1gl to Imy for tie su1r\vey. T

where the advanitalre of prel iiminary and full inlf rlatioln comiies 

Now, as to the doings of tile board while ill Nicaoa gua. Th

matter whihel is iore person 1,a!, aid which is very disagreeable t

of1, .lr1. chairmi'iiai, but with tlie ii)nldul:14cice of the 'coiiImiitIe

toullch - upoll it, as it seems to be a p('CeSary point to spvak of.

Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. Eldieott WelLt over that ill ])is statement 

the committee.

Mr. OOIT . Ad . Nble a1SO xwen t over tlt sul Ject.

Colonel LUDLoW. I an 11ulite at ile service of tile co1itt1e, 

Ilel, but there are some tiing-s I will havye to exphiin.

I find the statement in Mr'. lACleull's IestimoIly tihat w (lil 1n

at the site of the Ochoa Dam; that we pa ssed right by it, 'lthI1 o

had prepared a czimp there tor a six days' stop.

Mr. SrEWAR1T. They Wenit over tIlit m11atter iiilly.

Colonel LUDLOW. If the coiittee is satisfied, I have 11 Iothing 

to say.

The CIAIRtAAN. IIH'rStle yV411 owl course as to MIt to say.

( oloniel ljIIutmw, Of course. 1 44o iiit kIxIw wlt Illy c1 Il

statedl, and am at a loss Is to Miat gro-milndl to cver.

Air. BLNNETT. Because youl have not hIirl thliel, you'- are a 

Witness.

Colonel LUDLoW. I mIlay SINy, aWid I mta.y llot S;1y, He Smile th'lin

they did, but this grTulid w-ill have to e 'v4'i4d. It is a illat ter 

has its serioLLs aspect. I referred brielly to le or I\Vwo thin

Miller said. Ile is hot primarily responsible for them, as lie 

information from others. Ile states that froimi illo41111 ion1 from p

lie believed to be wholly qualified to spCaik tile commission Spe

fromii twelve to fourteen days oil or miear tile line of the eanil.

Ile evidently gets that f someone 4om else. I had atil i liotionI il

London before I came )over liere. I saw a clippi-Imiad arran

have clippiinpgs sent o1 to mie-il which it was initimated the co

was prepared to meet the report of the board; that Mr. Alelioc

been til in know referred workhat waiting would force and our board we of keeping after it sort briefly report. was with the had to of d(id our in engineeriig and an state some Mr. a down very rturn, It diary said iivestigationl may Menocal's that interest important there so. anti in be the arguments the Iuit is that that to nndigiiitied statement, an ivestigation hear we this ()lr imass at unflortuiate odid the xvhat board investigation and the ofproper travesty and statemeints work those best had of' that way we the belehind revelations timie ma4e; of could is was of company's which the it trying' incompletea1d us, would iii account three three are which woul I to havmodatbe emmmo
G04 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Otur trip to Nicara-na was to familiarize ourselves person

country amd the people and physical a(1d Moral conditions 

people would vlve to go2 there to do this work. Because 

always lived in tihe Tropics, or had Dot becii to that country 

M) relaOsO why we should nlot be good observers, since we ca

samIIe cotintry probably from wich olither people would hav

order to inhiabit the country and build the canal if it were 

Much stress is lidi upon that point, aiid other things m

Air. Miller says, tor example-it is f1i'etions, of course-t

sent abroad to iiivestg4'ate other camils, aind it would have 

it I had been sent abroad first."

Mr. SIIERM.AN. 1 (10 nlot think Mr. Miller was especially 

allythlnn lie said here.

Colonel LUDOW. V-asi 't lie? Personally I do not ,eel 

all, but I have ily owl way of treaTting those quiistionls 

agree with him. Prob:ibly if I hlWd beeii sent soiiMewlhere els

person would llve been sent to Nicaraglia with t he sam1ie r

not kinow where he grets his iltformtiation about our speming

fIurteen days there. lie said we did not stop at the site o

Daml.

111r. DoOLI Tv. Tht was oni your wa;y over, if I Imay c

Colonel Lu (tow. There is 110 indieation of that ill the t

Mr. DoOLITTLE. Mr. Mnci4loCl's stateient waNIs t hat you 

your Nway back.

Colonel LUtoxw. Ile says we did not stop there at :1li.

Mr. Jo N. Ihalt is, lie said you did in1It stop gtoi no' over.

Colonel LUniA Xv. Let me look at that. Alr. i lieur sys

'The (, Commission spent froill twelve to fourteeni ' Nys onI of neal the li

They never mrnde ally survevs of aly kind. Thleoy niiver even stoppe

the Ochloa Damt1, aliil of coUrse the ComilissimO cmloIl not have Imafle a 

c"duld not al y k :11y survey that would Ie of the sliihtest use without two or three

years' time with Za corps of enigineers.

Now that is a definiite statement ; that we never stopped 

Mr. JOY. We were refering a mont agoto A Ir. lciowa

('oloniel L-uncow. That is from the record, and I have 11o 

of knowing what was said than that. I waunt to find a s

ient by _Mr. Alenocal and see if tiere is iny qualification 

know there was a qulial ilication in Al r. Men ocalas statement.

Mr. CORLISS. Ile stated thiat on the return they stopped 

Colonel LUiTLmw. I have not that, bit I will briefly 

those thilligs. I will co ntinfle with Mr. Aliller. I hoped 

iemioranda with reg-ard to that but I do not find ally.

Mr. Patterson asked, for ex: iple, whether any compet

in possession of the maps and profiles and all tile data co

made this in vestigat ion aid report as well in his office in 

as by a trip to Nicarag'ua. Air. Aliller ag reed entirely tha

Mr. Mr. D)oliIrrai. PATTEAISON. Be ore Beg-ifiiiinrg you proceed on with page 62, C(lIonel, I find tstate the by cost amount there. ing Mr. Mr. Mr. it.examination the millions alibwit MENOCA MENOCAL. BENNE"TT. I to?most had what fixed of importa L. that length If dollars, Not I aNill they :IIY. was their niot t, of p withnolit, sites, nrile I prepatred calls, They lme anil the there bss'd by did( invest So engieers such one 1 to not at lml :twswer (it' the iga fln eXamin4fe they that the tiiw sitc iiportalnt split wouhl cmips thltf. alow of it, til1C atthe what have mc wns the site I dam? piece (-anll to wou]il 4 aln ofallcIoa isk only othe of the 1 o11 1 Iworktportheisay aiii),ll, Ocqu
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

They slept here two rights, and, as I said, they wa inted one (lay to exa mino 

cent bills. I had a camp here [exhibiting on map], and six days provisio

number of engineers. They arrived in the afternoon and looked around f

hour or so and came back to the canip. I sent the boats here to brinig t

[exhildting on the map], and on the followi inog day they f Ind them here and 

them back, and they arrived at the camp about 4 O'clock in tho afterio

next morning they started to look over the line of the canal and i eyer had 

for an examination of the site of the dan.

Mr. STEwART. Mr. Me\Iocal says, on page 59, that they 

Ochloa in the afternltoonl of one day about 2 o'clock, and l)ked 

little, visited the ocean, and the region of the Cs

of Oclioa.

Colonel LUDLOW. That could not be so. I do not understan

for we were 30 miles from the ocean one way and 140 tlie other

Mr. STEwA'r%. Mr. Me -ocal says they spent one day going 

day coming back, and oil the second day they arrived and iiex

ing ran across to Grey town; they were six days ill that section

Colonel LU ( W. Yes, sir. Bit the Complete statement, 

elsewhere, has no such j1cification in it whatever, and I sho

that no on1e co uld read that statement and believe the board m

investigations at the site of the O(hoa Dam.

Mr. STEWART. All the testimony should be take together.

Colonel ILxTJoW. I ut we can not find it all together, untfior

Mr. DOOLITTLE. iMr. Alenocal said he was speaking withou

Mr. CoRLIss. lie did not real any narrative.

Colonel LULo( w. If you will permit tie1, will go over this in 

ance with my notes. Ve will take the pages as wtey come. 

not very much of it in oluantity, although there may be very 

quality.

Mr. Miller's engineeri ig, ift is correCtly reported, is Ilie w

have ever read. lie is ani engineer of 1Zreat 1and varied acc

ments. Ile does make 010e remaIrk which strikes to where it 

Ile says that anyone call go alotig and note high-water marks 

banks. 1 suppose everybody will agree with th at. The only ti 

astonished Us was thiat the compaIt y 1iad not done it. We did it. Mr.

Miller says the rise and fa ll is 5 feet. Ile lis only to go dow

and examine the banks. and according to the least es timate lie 

that it is 15 feet.

Mr. BENNETT. llow log WoTee you at the OC(hioa Dam l?

Colonel Lum.L(). Tirei- e days.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. All'. AlvNIoca1 Sa 'S that.

Air. BENNETT. I ave yo(u notes of your invest ligation i a1d 

tiot s?

Colonel LUDLOW. 0h, yes; notes of everytltitg. Everybo

notes. We wouhIl be poor investigate S if we did 114)t keep om

And frtlerimore, i yoli p]( le"se, tile bo:rid took tle trouble to furnish a

copy of tle iniiutes of thle boatd, w ic 1 gives our i dally imovem

whiereabotits, elaborate. That the elaborate somely, with fitle There As day bungalow Wood is a were matter one of and camp cut the TIhie of two it althmglth the of that out month. was there min or fact, appendixes. of Iites would tree veryeady the wW\e tell i(ot interesti got forests. of' have forhanded where those,vcry there us. Listed ng, filly; There and we Sunday there The being went, all they camp we was Sunday slitier. at construeted from were did not noon; was onie not,a at very niail fxed It noon I pint want do was neat ill by not up and it. to watthe to verin rethf
1(36 NICARAGUA CANAL.

ance. We landed and spent the afternoon in exploring th

that side. This camp was at the site of the dam-right 

the dam. AVe went over the hill zig-ainst which the canal a

wcilnt out on the crest line and crossed over to the canal line

were diverg1e-nt, id made a thorigh examination. In 

did a harder day's work than that.

Alr. RENNETT. For a suipierficial examination, (10 you 

spent all the time at the Oeloa Dam that was necessary

Colonel LUDLOW. I knIlOW we did, and we ldid more than a

en"ineer has ever dome. We saw the whiole of it. The 

rid1,e is a very important feature, a very essential cOntinit

(lllm. Unless you go out on that ridge and fill ul) depress

not build the dam at all. I mean there would not be any 

Mr. SlERMAN. You say you are tie only engineers that 

entire line of this canal ?

C( ohoel LUDLOW. I milean the only ones who have g-one ov

of it without any serious (aps in it.

Alir. SHEAIMAN. You mei Alr. Aleiiocal has not (-)-One Ov

G1onel Lu 1OW. I Imiealn, fri-Om inflation I reg-ard a

reliable- alt lo ugh, of cmirse, not of my own personal k iow

we took JMmr. iMenocal, not that lie took us; that we took 

emiballkilent line, which is the dangolerons part of the S

division, through those dangerous hills; that we took him 

miles of that le which lie had Ilwvet' seen.

AMr. SHERMAN. \hiat do you base statement oilIhat 

('oloiiel JjToJ E W. ()n p sitive stateietIts frol people w

Ar. DOOLITTLE. Statements firomi wim )1l?

A1r. SHERMAN. That is I very serimis statement.

w ild like to (14lonlel Sulpplement it LUILOW. f rt her by statingw 

tlat accordiing to the best ol my knowledge aid belief, an

lar ilfolrhIIation, that Air. Aleinocal had never been over tile 

IIle Stl C( 4rl4s rido-e. We went over that ervest liie, and it 

stated, an(d 11 beleve trit 1hfully, that Air. Aleical fiad nev

it. I have nO donbt of that myself.

Alr. Do )oL1 ITTLE. -By whom was tis statement Inade?

(Cohuonel Lum,( w. 1y a geitlema i who l1a4 been emplo

compalyAlr. DOOLITTLE. WNht was his iname?

CI Olniel LUnuw (ct il lin r). A trim sted en ineer, wh

as5 I m1lI~herStanld, imitil tlhe (loSe amd tell dliftd off, weit 

eliployment. NVe en ga red lhim. oll accouintm of his k1nmw

00ntry 11d his familiarity with it. to owni \o with us and help 

Mr. DI)OOLITTLE. Did yOu ask AMr. Alenlocal whether he 

h

not bei Over this grrontid ?

L C ) I() N'. No.

Mr. SE1 iiAN. V hat was this en L?,'i eer's 1anle?

Cololel Air. SlE1vn LI'IuLOW. AN. Did Davis. k know. ager, IIow. All'. Colonel C10oloiel Allr. t'iolone I ST'rmwAr BENNETT. As iunderstmid, 1 believe LU1 Lumnuw. L-)IOW. I recollect T. they w. IRlation Were (d* ThIe'e As Tuy it. 1:1d fie tle Alr. to lie 118 have sOmile were. that, ste:uIIl was was riildly DI:vis's st0m1e diffelences ret lie with H 11ainedt mmIy All'. sout (14) relations diflicillty line. ely not Aenol1.l? ()I' uitil no Iiiay Iike towar-d i India friendly I witl he this, not in close. t4he of have the gent aly ?enld

persocomh11
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

unfriendliness, and we had not anly, any more than I relelred 

morning.

Mr. STEWART. Did Mr. Davis express aiiy hostility to you 

Menocal?

Colonel LuDLOW. No. You do not Iniiderstanid tlat there w

quarrel [addressing Mr. Endicott]?

Mr. ENDICOTT. No, I do 1ot.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would like you to state to the cm

whether or not you regard that as a frieidly statement eoi mi

Davis against the engineer of tlie company.

Colonel LUDLOW. I tlinik it is a sta element of fiat.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you tlini k it was a stateiienit of a fiiend

Colonel LUtDOW. I do not tlhinik it was friendly to do it.

Mr. STEWART. Would you base your Opiiion 1po n Unlfilienldly

testimony?

Colonel L1mLOW. I stated that was my belief.

Mr. IENNETT. Your statement this morning was p sii ie.

Colonel LUDLOW. I desire, if you please, to check tlh at. 

impossible that I sh would know it myself.

Mr. JOY. Were these statements of Mr. Davis itadle Ibefolre y

to the Isthms?

Colonel LUDE 1w. No; they were made oi the ground.

Mr. Joy. And he was with you in your investigation?

Colonel LUDLOw. Yes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Was Mr. M enocal present'!

Colonel LUDLOW. No, I think not; it was in the caimp; ev

was there.

Mr. (LITLE. Not coin uiuiCated to Mr. M eIioeal by you?

Colonel LUDLOW. No, sir.

Mr. SHERMAN. WNould( \il have giveln as miuch tVetidence to 

said lbad you known he was Ina on friendly teris wit ]ir. i11e

Colonel LUDLOW. I (lont know. I believe lie is IonIest.

Mr. 1ENNETT. Would yo1 have given as ie1 cvloedce tlen 

Colonel LUDcow. I believed it tlien.

Mr. STEWART. I)id ite speak in a way that was dcvlrgatory to 

an engineer?

Colonel Lunx)-w. It was not derogatory to his vapaeity as 

neer at all. It would have 4een quite possil e that Alir. Al emea

ill cliarge of so lillel wi rk, shold filld it implIacti vible to 

ever, part oF the route and oImilitcy alOmig thle 1 nh.

Mv. IIENN ETT. Tihei y I d(t mistder it a crit Wisi

C )oloi el LNL( W. I di e[ it cimeS to (riti(iSill u ft r nO ( lii it

Mr. BENNE TT. You must be (41ir.

Colonel LUL)TW. I say I emnsider it a fir criticism wh en h

cises 11- for not doi g it and makes a inise assertion il s1411ing

Mr. Joy. Where did you imd Davis"? the lie 18871 before Colonel Mr. Colbnel Mr. Colonel Mr. wNas operations Joy. STEWART. ISTEWART. flnemplpyedl, LuDLOW. Lunow.UVLow. You took DoI't And Ill Yes, and I himn do't tha\Wasihingtoll. you that sir;with know4,w. Mr. lie we w? you, had Alenocal e that did been. 1gaged -Davis you, l1a( down him ftrom was bweii justIliere. nt here as there there soon tO the man

at as 
I GS NICARAGUA CANAL.

( Coloiiel LUDLOW. Oh, yes.

Mr. STEwANiT. Could he not have gone over this before 

seen Nicaragua, assuming )avis hmd iiot been there?

Colonel LUDLOW. -No, because that line had not been loc

time; he had not located that crest line.

Mr. STEWART. You are sure of that?

Colonel Luiu 'w. Yes, sir. It is all simple enough, exce

All cocal tra vesties the whole thing; and if you will read hi

you will sce that lie was trying to guide us, and we had a di

wv':iider i oh ill the woods, and go in al ting, etc.

Allr. ST EWARwT. I ) n't you tlink it was your duty, as a llo

to call to the attention of the enigiiieer this criticism of D'a

4o' nicl Lum)ow. No, sir; I do not, indeed. It was Mr

ownl a Ffair if Ile lhid not beenl over the line. I found n o l fault 

llal 1n0 tI)Hghit of mlakimg (my such statement is I have 

regard to thcthingl al all iinti 11 1 find Ile is travestig this thing. Ile is

lertaking to muake us ridiculous ini the eyes of the wo

i in'er 1 i Ig haten ity.

Mr. J . I )id I)axvis give yon his meanIs of knowledge of 

olonel IIiL OW. lie said it was of his own knowledge. 

So as a fact.

Air. J1Y. And b y that You miderstood le had been with M

all tile tilic o the line of Hie canal

ololel LU n w,. lIe state ed as :I fact tlat that portion-I 

j

where it was; it wv as a part of tile San Francisco eniban

Mr. Al enocal bad never been over it Iiiself.

Mr. D )ULITTLE. Will VOI pOilt thmt out oil the limp

remiember what x portimi of tlie line it was?

Cdowm Lu IIt wAs the embiankinent line betwee

Fr'nil(cisco mtlld the Ianta.

M1\r. DI )auLTTLE. Bvttw'een wlat points?

Colnmel Luvi)L w. The Danita and the Niclholson. I thi

note of it Im'self imade at tle time; but I thought nioth

assure you.

Air. Do 'LITTLE. What distaiice would that le'

(olnIel LUI)LI)W. I sifp)p)oSe it wOuild be a iiatter, as I un

of I miles. or somiethiniig like that, hut a very difficult pie

pells to be a specially dihicult piece of I hat country.

ir. STl'\WART. Did Davis elaii to be in charge of that s

lie was inder \Ieiocal ?

4 ol0ne1 LUDLOW. I don't know. He wvas ill their conf

mildoSI8Taind it, and their mnIgr1-UC'.

ir. STE\VA_1T. Did ihe tell you lie was il charge o that 

(C1

olnel LuDtow. I did not investiKate that at all.

i,.1 Jy. YOU took his stiat emnenit without any ill vestigat ion?

('olonel Ltow. Surely; I simply m a1de a note of it.

true of DIavis's, C(odoml Colonel Air. Colonel Al Alr. Mr. that r. wihO1Iit J Jov. STEWART. J()v,. kind ( would v. Lunuow. LUnuow. LUDnow. Thllere A But miwJ;ng Id you yOl y Yo1 ar nioty ilrflieur (Iid Surely. It Not ii severl 1make would still in 14)Otile cam tie investigate examui ways-if I take sIt:tel low least. Ie investigated. nation should Mr. ment you Menwcails t lie here I :ask statenen go t hat to lie ill w the you vestigatrd t? beliuesas 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonlel LDTLOW. IInlividnailly, 1? N(t at all.

Mr. BENNETT. You would before you read that testimony P

Colonel LUDLow. Lmok here, 'entieieni, hasn't the inquiry 

turn which is extremely nifirtuinate?

Mr. JoY. It has taken a turn ymu have caused it to take.

Colonel LATLow. You ask ine whoimi I would believe

Mr. iBENNiETT. It is a quIeStioii as to what you say and w

Menocal says.

Coloiiel LUDLOW. No; (IIes Mr. M\enlocal say l1e had 1been 

part of the line"?

Mr. BENNETT. We h1 ave been led to) believe it.

C14onel LuiuTow. Quite tue, sir; you lave been led to belie

things.

Alr. CORLISS. Colonel, where is Mr. Davis now. Where is lie 

1now?

Colonlel LUDLOW. Tie last I I lielard, lie Iiad gone t ( C(s

Whether ie is still there I don't know. When we were downi 

said lie was going to Costa lRica after lie got tlr'ough with his 

neut with us. Whien Ile was inl Costa rica, Mr. KReitli was t

said lie waInted Iii in in conectii witi some railr-mad w ork.

Mr. CoRLiss. Ile is n(ot a Governielit engineer ?

Colonel LUDLOW. ()h, no; he was formerly ill the employ of 

triet government here as an assistant eng ineer, I think il C

with sewer work, or sonet hing of that kiiid. I believe the m

entirely honest. I really do not know about any controversie

with the company.

Mr. Menocal says, n page 48, that the Commission was in N

altogether about forty days, which, I believe,is .1bout correct. 

d

remember exactly how long it was; tIe mi 4tes of the board w

Of these forty (lays, 1l1r. Ienocal says, a total of two weeks

less, was spent in examiiiinig the canal route, or rather the ca

alld viciiiity. Ile says thiat some plces thley touched and oti

did not. "4 These gentlemen traveled by the most comfortable 

either through the woods or along tile roads, so that they were 

weeks examilniig the canal from the Athitic to the Pacif

They were detained in Greytown both on the arrival and be

ing."1 He says we were only two weeks examining the canal 

Atlantic to the Pacific. I do not know that ily colleagues hav

this.

Several MLlEMnmERs. We would like to have your testimony.

Colonel LUDOW. lie says we were detai ued at Greytown 

that they awaited the aIrrival or the ste 1amer; ti at i tiey ad orde

their outfit, but the Com Imission arrived before the shl1tlemr c

the outfit arrived, alnd they wa ited a week f4ir it; that tle'i the

out anid went upi the riv\r. The matter of fact was we were 

survey and exami11atimi of the Ihiabor. If tihe steamner had 

us takinghe side to go went be work By the before to examilning San of thehat back over Pacific the the Juan, farthest it steaminat imieani5s it. over lake did tile first across We we forthe point we San would aid w(ild the route and wouldli the J1ua1 inspection first. from il lake, be g)ing ot d(letail, hiave IRiver tier Ug1nertiu have making to of gone. t foot coming ad the genlend views the westerni our by tie western We toot, back, arranpemeiits 4t Lake, view were the divisimi or so division of coulltry; aIndlly going by the oiter HIC th1at first, 1ll) rouoil Nvow
170 NICARAGUA CANAL.

seemed niecessary. We waited a week at Greytown, it is 

vlile I hre we were di ng l perhaps thi e most important work we 

The result Q* the \w o'rk ill (reytown is shown in our relport 

1liC (ling -Greytown Ihrbor." TWt gives whllat we had to s

subileet. We ii nade an instriienital survey of t'he entire 

X\hich h d 1n It b1eel mle e:e1 14114C, 1r Wi ' l e miles f'romn 

dVOnlld the uajpe -iinl lolrt invard, making Ili extensive su

Our Imrpose in running that line and in running interior line

ol the bechli w8s to e11ble I hie li iers ot the 1rUMonhgomwry t

hIycirographic survey.

The oftshIo're wOr-1k wa Nvs dole ill the boats while we were go

(lid this, a1id it Imiodile a ver vVy vIahibl)e hi art of ti Iie hIIarbor, q

peuisahle. That is fihe kiiN of work we were doing while w

ented its wai1ing Ant this bmit mid clearing 1, t as o IS 

The freight hut (1111C (IoVi pretty sn w1 XvithI our outhit--a 

visions, alid instruimeints, anil oth1ier thingsii.i-alnd thieni WC w

river. The river llaXga tio hi just opened lolr the season. 

ea11ie doni ifogetlher: one left on Aioiday, and we got oY the 

ing, TU'sday. C We wx-c ly thO Sn n J8:11O n River. Mr. iIe 

Xvwe 1avelel at night. We never traveled at night; we did 

ai single iiight.

M. S1IERMAN. Where dOes he 5ay that ?

Colonel LUD 11ke says it somewX'here. It is a hard Jo

out. I (.,Il find it it' yol desiree Imlo to IAke the timie. It' y

will be gll84 to la ve yiiu C&ai ll my aItIition to if. Il the abs

114fs I 1 11e mOt tihe rielerences to his testinimi y.

Ar. D LlTTLE. ()n page 59, Mr. Alientoal says:

I must saty tih tt they ra lilies ari'niid (reytowil while thev were wait

moloie1 Li I1A . lie doesn'tt say it lere ill the p1ace I :lilt r

Mir. DMhLITTLE. It says it un the next page.

'ol nel ILm1) V. Firilher :1a111; yes, lie says

T h ey \ ii wcut j 1 lip, river :nd ( 1 4 tr1a sinsfr in tle river from ( 

nnotlwr At two di i rvi t point.

As I m11atter ot lact, we Ol( to transfer at molre poillts t1:11 

si ys hi rtlier:

Th4rle i- < my <llIvme Ite: i, r f1 i I ke, :1t4 wlwI eln Iey arrive ed it ws n 

thw KPopwliSqifnl 11 i y mN w No thy; wmiting; fOil this stemnil 

S4) L, ill is Itil , we lmven'i Onie al i'thlly livin

anytlhing ho (h) with lhw V31011. C mntiluing. , m ys:

Ini th iw tjlro da's n\ iinmli ; Irip Np tiw ri lr N i nllvlHl 5011h11H.Iin th

a rivir stimlfler mpt mill ot inM tii i!ke :1A took Wwriigng and simoidin

WO :I 1mttWr of hid-, \vt dIK mwiv thall 1hat. Wc i~mgel 

Qt F00 Sun it :1114st 1hi&0 the ("mquany hiall lluvvr iknc. W

OxaMi i1 nm Wfit, Frio O ikr, whicb cmness in in the itnuiliki

bent'h tlioy Sai tile where ' Gol(Inel high r. Carli'lst ganedThe Kilmlel DI marks Ilie \IM hd Ir)o.Frii ni(le San Dul'ri'1. Xo8 1n & LimIow. (Al' will flte i'. hin 40er they 11mw ('(111111cce Where W'e exists. (liph (i askle ("In river their l4. Ii We y-mt &t &f ;11(1 hem l tGO Kill mly tOOk w we t o thicy C'alOV Kill iV4r ros. iui'ish Xate that g'eait K I1hem1 tile 110 nitver shilta1en8t hlvke Is 50k, Kid ains cmpiledI wili 4111110( ih tovawI'. to all that intliget the onfi1 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You can not say positively that they nev

any such gaugiugs?

Colonel LUDTOw. No record of any sutch thing ever reached 

piny, if you please, sir.

Mr. 1) )i)L'VPLE. YOU CanI state i)sitively tiat the compan

information as to the river at this point{, Sa ii C arlos?

Coloel LUInow. There. was no recor-d of the company hav

any survey at that point. W\e asked the coipaniy to furnish 

all the records of the g'angin-i2s they hiad made, and they di

they told us at the time that those were all tile records an1d 

they had.

Mr. DooLITT1I. I know I have seen a statement as to the Sa

Colonel Lunmow. TIat is tle company's gaging f tile S

near the San Carlos River. Fort Sa1 Carlos is a n1am111e oI a s

the river at the lake

Mr. DOO ITTLE. The waters of the Piver San Juan have beei

repeatedly by the engineers of the company?

Colonel LUDLOW. l)nce.

M'. DOOLITTLE. At different seasons of' the year?

Colonel LUlnow. Once and once only, and the record o

defective to the extent that the level of the river whei that 

was made is not kniowi. It was not, il other wovds, Conie

the benielh marks so as to say tle river was at Sutch a11(1 Sulch 

when that ganging was done. If it was, it would have becei 

value.

Mr. STEWART. Mr. iMenocal says, oi wage (0:

I told the Commissioners that the si urveys :a, ii borin is 1: a111:1ll men caref

that I had an accurate record of them all; th at a hlr iumer c 1 nIH wi 'r

in li work, :1d 1hat I had eniI incers oi experieliceI to conthiit the wo

repeatedly told by them that, they ha d1 reason ii dIubt the accuray ci cl

I followed themit step by step, with prt fil1s,:l imlaps, and plans, slimwin 

of the borincs aiul surveys, and called tlir :tht-tion o n('olst:an1tly to diff

of the role and very frequently invited them to verity tIhoSO plans, 

surVeys.

Colonel LITTnLOW. We were all goi in g il: a group, yes; and 

nett welit aloiag amd carried the llmps and we examined t he g

we went ahong, seeing whatever we c oubI.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. -Do you reimemiber ablou the 1i1utu bet' of 1

Ocloa Doin ?

Colonel L fJi) I_)'Nw. IPe~i'efectly. It is all in ur repot.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. There had bovia all examin nat ion of IhAt ki

sir? siiiii' 

(ohonel JjnTIOAw. Wihy, certauiinly, they miade so Imeeing

river be(d and inl the banks. We trieat of that very hilly.

Mr. Io LiTTL' . Mr. Meioel says that seve te horilg's w

there, and that only Iwo kinds of material were shown.

Colonel LUDLW. NOw, there is the di fliculty, gei atlemu ei. 

Chlicago states named. posed ter river, were of bed. auger, clitting is three in They that fully by paper, the le the into or the was went traed says middle four aid later thie th iuunda down the orf bottom case in tihaIn of live, a 1hmotings tion our pipe, 20, the whien tile with wonhl 22, report. river, violently. going final showed or we an 24 be what report earth went down The feetgravel, that The would there a and only of through uger, as borings clay, the the the borings to be chief iot examilne pipe Ii and thethe mundation. a were boring -rock, heart they engineesanl choked, with it. maof inin in 
172 NICAR AG T A CANAL.

hadI't It iy en Im:1 us of getting any f-1frlter, and they never d

farther: S) all tile iniloriiation we lave about the bed of the 

.River at tlihe O(Xlm _14 1111 from tis Or1gs, o' otherise, i

jiotliiag but sand to an unde'termiined depth.

Al r. Do T Li TLE. Salid, cily, aiid gravel

('obonel 1-1)Lt1,mW. No, sa(1; notliing but sand., froii these 

qustin They dO 10t go Iair CiOth to discover the deepe

aniid they never 116m1 aly rock there at all, al]tionugh Mr. Me

lie believed t hey struck W elders. Timt is rock in one sens

ii an eweineerirg sense. The note book of the brings said 

to be rock, and the facts were they were sand in the rive

hOwhlers in tile b anks. And 1that made the problem more dif

we cdlmIe to co isider the questimi of the Oclima Dam. Inste

ing rock to base this w ork mi, there was an iuidetermined dep

there. All that was knowi about it was that it was 20 o

dcp1Cth, m1i wiha t there w as below that nobody knew. I observ

pa pers ill testillmony timt Alcl1olcal accepts tha it proposition

boring''s had becn ;Jluvealv nimde somletiie before that.

() )ige 59, Air. M elci a l says:

1 i:1 instruments at places t verify everythingand tliy had soime 

surveys wert mtile.

Ile fiad inist Luients at all plac s to verity everythiiiig ! I 

wAlt thtat meia-mns. Ife didnil't have aly iistruimients there 

bIig 111 s. We could not have used them it he had. We h

miienits of our Own. I do not know whether we used our instr

his: I th ink ars. In going np the San Jiuan River, wh

1bedlieved information was to be obtained we would check 

ben-h 1mia1 rks, and m:k e oberva tio n s in tIhe vicinity ()f the r

We irIeIArded Is imipmrtdait. We 111(1de gai ngs ()I the San J

d1mid all other strealis al numerioUs points, nd we determined 

mialrls-tle water maks ni the bank-in orderr to determ

miigiht be the variatwIn of t he river, aind we found instead o

5 feet. as assumed, it was nut less than 15 Feet. In one 

ilit)'61-1 r tionii waus veir clear tilat it I1tad rise fit least 20 feet.

1 (4 iot wvalit to) A"() too 1'1f1 on this subject. I caine h

requli4lst of the cOilliilttee. and do not want to be tedious. 

over this jOuiiliny. We went up the Sin Juan River. and 

(lestiieid at is or 11 thed Pacific diviiim. Wh 11ell we arrive

N 1'i gim, we stopped at Sa Jorge, which is a wharf aind l

hi vas. e h in mi or party there in charge of Mr. iDoav

biisinies r w 1S to collect 1le ilceswly aimials for the use Of 

in u4Oi11 m-er I It(1he west Ciri 1divisionl. (it that part I)f the rout

use in l.

Mlr. D) 1TTLL. Bchre you go into that. I would like to as

on \ -(vIu liil kinwl il avis 1 ntore YM1utr eill pl(>vnlenit of Iiilli

4 Oohnnl l~I ina'. I fuuill 1 11:1 knlowl him whieni I wa

01101' like this: liere-ay trict I11mde1 Air. C(oonel to gnoverlllnment1 am110!L )(o LO. 4m sOmie ) nilii Luw. dilionhy 1D4o inqui'y I ner i.tIt'I. know liOl* thI 111W Iut I ho I I : Al 44f dOth tliiik is r. would s.1):vis rict,14 -wlien vIT like Ly that aimol cIm)I h hle ' to ivilg le Ileask was l met : 1ad toy Ily in yon been eilloi the I Mir. rO a ep111plyed fuirthier elnploimeiit 11( le Noble t4 uni 1ig i() or his Nicalga, questin iet Il:-and t
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. I have never heard of (any trouble that 

here.

Mr. DooLITrLE. I am infoined tihat Ie got into difliculty 

was here.

Colonel LuDLow. I don't know about that. Of cOIUre, if 

there is a record of it in w iin the District (mn issionl) ers' Olic

We sent the party to Rivas to) makoe prepntratimns for tihe ktxa

of the western division. AVe had an understa in linlg with illeii

the company would use its provisions f r prmvIsioning the c

the easterit division and we would use our provisions to take 

us and distribute on the western division. It was a very ic 

ment. Tle company i had gone to a great dea I of expellse in 

the eastern camps anIdI1 getting the provisions tlec. and wer

use anything we had, of cmirse, so Awe lused wia it was blinde

western divisions, and turiined te 1 balance )ver to) the c4mipai 

as far as m11ight be to reimliblnurse thel l Cow the lprvisionis thy 

nished in the eastern divisionI. We left everything; trllnled 

the company. We land mir party at San Jmrgo Imd mi)lr5e

to iMaiagua. We went there to pay our respects to I lie Gver

and also to look at the lake, a Itter of 40 miles, about, Irom S

to Granada. We weit to \anaI1gua, ti1e capital, and arii ved 

0'clocl in the evelimg on the samie day.

The President gri-atited us a special iitcrview the Inext mo

9 ()'clock, ain(d we had the horloHI ofH presenting mur01selves to ) h

lency. We took the retnmi tvrain at 10 (')'cwl k an(d wenit back 

Mr. Menocal says we spent two or three d:Iys tlhre )l4king u

and so on. We got to Hivas at night, and lef the next imiorin

spent n1o time hiuntuting horses. I )avis had tleii the two d(

we landed him getti g h0orCs. It w(il hiave been a seio

Sion oil our part if we lmd not go(n t4 Al a'a. The C m vernimenti 

seiit coimtiissioiiers to imIcet us at Greytowin. They had rec

Awith a salute of e04ven gulls, and thie CoMm1i1ianiIdanItes of the t

garrisons called on us all the way across tile Isthuiis,. It w

evidence of goood will, and it w(ild have h )elI grossly discurm

us had we ilot gone there. It involved 110 loss of time, f*Xr 

were taking that day anld a half the preparitionls fOr oil'r trip 

western division were being made, 11ni we object to the stht

Mr. Men(eocal, at the bottom of pa ge 58 or Ids testimmny, that 

evening they arrived at Iivas, .3 miles distant, ;a11(1 there the

two or three (lays liuitinig horses and other micaHs of tranispor

go over the line of the canal." There is no mista k& ab)ut t1

ment. At the bottom of page CS lie says

They went to St. Geurge, on the other side of tlw lake, where they l

went to the capital to visit the Presidenit. .Next day, in the evening, they ;Irrived at

Rivas, 3 miles distant, and there they stayed two ir thllee dayvs.

We left the ]text mnornin g. Mr. Davis was down there maki

arrangements. before A remained speaking says. about Mr. Colonel Mr. man this. DOOLITTLE. a DooLTTLE. If ought tribunal without he there LUDLOW. wants to six That tell ofnotes (lays., to ItDon't this I theis woull decline say ?what truth kindthose y' not Ile ; to should noticeI was things have acceptm sent no been Mr. hethateld there disposed sliold Meiocal anythiiig as to to an acco)nt do. first toaid exectise. wrong be considthaundfor if 
174 NICARAOUA CANAL.

Colonel LUn)Ew. No. It is not material, except that M

is evideaviwi hg' to disp8rage the orce4' otur report by dispar

colidlic a14 efficienIcy of the men whio made it, and to shio

werC a lot of stlljpid fellows, who didn't know how to do any

didn't do it; whereas ve did kiiow how and did do it, aid we

our Way. Ai(d we ae content to stan11d on the record. When 

cal t (.4 fill dlissi ill tile Uit &c(1 S lates service, and whlle

here or ai iywhere ( se anld Inmakes such assertiolrs, he mn ust j

siatem'Ii1ent or wi thIdraw theiml or ta ke tie c()se 1uinces. Thi

court of hast resort in this matter. Periaps I mi in CrrOr ieo 

cisisingo this (lilestiol bel're you, but it is with this purpo

rellictat to believe tiimt a mall with whom e 11d :i 1 aSsociated

ever lie in ay be, Ilowever ii Irested in this inwt! fer, and I1weve

at wlmt We miry have to Say-Sh have imade sitch a sta

thought that he womil have rccog izevld that there is 14 perso

ill fihis matter :4 fU I s We are comcerilnd; jiot a word rellec

him il miu report. Tlicre Uwe discrep U icies--t her il giglt be a

but, we woUl(I not iiecessmily c n sider a imiI a I vili j1 wilIhO1 

'Nr. 1I 0& )ITTLE. Th1at is tirue td every report; ill kinds of 

iilig work.

ColoIIel I JU I)],. Is it iot l Tiing's Ilmust be impersontal.

.Air. I ) l I-TLE. Say imperfection s exist.

Cob cl LU ) w. urel y. An1d 1 he lonitger time you take 

stmileti lies tihe 1more er(w vos cet ill. I 01ly waited I say that 

this matter ip) fir this reasoH. It is not a pel'smnll, Imlatter. 

wittversy wih anlylbdmy. We hadn't at the Ibegininiig. 

while it was goiig o. We aadi't t the finiish. No frict

m

hi it at all, liitil we ariecon rotiiied with this Iost extram-rdi

mIAy by i1r. NI elnocal bel1 6r this cOmimittee, a1nd we challen

tihic(lv. I don't thiik I wOild have gotic indt0 tlo iter 

\vere it iot thlat I thti!Ik i\I v. Al4nIOcal shioild have :1l O)p

v0dIyiing his statemletit before i4 gOes oil IJial rccor4d. I 

t1hAt siiuggestimn. It is ill hi Vis iitrest : and not Mille.

1Ar. STEIA I. \ou ighi Iike to modi y your statement 

\Ieloc.1 IIot ing 'ov hlie Hwtie roUtie.

Cloiel Luw'IA~w. ('erktily, it' I 1oun1d ilvsif mistakeit.

Spmn 11144io1, tlie coIiinittee ad jOuilned to Imlect at 2 

I llow\v g IdIIay.

(4 111TTEE ON INTEisTATE AND EOIf N (.' rdMEiE

The ('mitlittee on I iteirst:11 n11d4 Ioreigni ( '01inerce this 

Hll. WVilliam 1. 11iebun lit the echairl.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW-CowtinIue

indullgelce to with testimioiy not theThe Colonel maIe considering coininittee the UIHAIR11AN. ai permllissi CoonlLumnow. brict, LuDLOW agai tile coiIllittee staltemienit it, that sriously, Plllrsue1 (colitiinuing'). of' Alr. he the Chairman considered iil proImses colimitte VOUI but regarlvd I MVwn I learned pa cad to to ,colWSe. ssed it tIhe gixe t gentlemeii, seriously; g'o over bOmrd, yesterday le over to Al :an1d a i ay,nd little I dl from theni er's but as niol 44, eiga I hiI 'Akw
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Menocal's testimony are to be taken together, I would like to 

I want to say first, inl regard to the attitude of the board iin this 

what niglit iin a sense be a repetition, but it enables me to s

case briefly. We were appointed as Goventment oflicers to do a 

piece of work, with instructions to go and do that work the 

knew how a1nd to come back a(d report the facts. The compo

the board wtts simple enough. It was in pursuance of the la

required the board to be composed of one oflicer of thu E

Corps of the Army, one officer of the civil engieer corps of th

and one civil en gineer. t was indicated as the olieer of the 

Eng"ineers as, I believe, upon the recommelindation of my ch ief a

I have no official infrmationI as to that but I was "lecte

by reason of any special or superior fitness to anIybo dy cise (I 

ally officer of thi e lEn4 1gineer Corps ciuld have done tile s:m i ic wo

because I was il Lo)ldoiI an(1d semii idvt achId, 'Il( 1 co d be se

out disturbing the work going oil in charge of en).inleers of th

A

The Corps, ifyou like, is proud of its rep u1te, ;11(1 I Im lad to 

has the colifideni(ce of C'1igiress anId (i thtie cmit1ry, and I a 11 

individual member of the Corps could be more solicitolis for i

and velftaire thiaiN myself. \e all share il that. -Mr. End ict

officer who was selected from the c()rps of civil cigineers ill the 

adi hoora at established ble 5e'vice. WIIat cr-ps which d11 lon o 

work they have done stands of record, whatever it Imlay be, 

speak for itself. Mr. Noble is the civilian memiber of thie Ib

with regard to limn perhaps I may be perm itted to speak so

more freely. We were all t1reie stralqgers to each ot her w

work began. We met for the first time ill Washlington. A aft

acquail intimate tami e iigh an t aInd d day Iiorouglh almost si icie theq 

work began I cal speak !(Ir Mr. Noule. Ile is one of the most 

well informed, res lute, a id resmuireful wien I inxv. Hie lt as 

and steadfastness and he is sunlight itself for Imunesty, und 

record.

It is Mr. NOble vlo, in conjillictiOi with Genieral Vuit zelof t

Engi'"ineers, built, tlie Sazilt >St4. IM)ari' L( al '111d ( Si icei( th h 114le l1:1S bc

engaged oil other iimportanit wokITs. I dubl if there is a Iwiii 

body of civil ewiiIlcel's \ho stands hiiher. lie built the 

J1idge one of the moist extraordinary aId noiuieiil a] pi-ces 

uIeering done in thiis could try, ad thlie en gi ieiers eco 'Ili ze him 

iman who did it. Be was there in the actual c1st151 timn of Il

I may say, further, lie is gifted xvith a Ii in veterat e modostyt ot have

to discover his merits for yourself. That is the couipositimn of t i

Now I will say, further, I do not believe that thlriee Iei ever d

and harder work in the satme length of time thait we did. 

never did, and I lhve worked pretty hard, tom. It was a IB uSt 

work. We utnoderstomi tile dlie iculty and inprtalice of it. 

work of world-wide interest, and whiiatevulr wou did. and whl ate

mouths I at clusion criticised engineer the Now, weiglt venture We any danger we were rate,we in we who go to and New were of came acting, down the say had this read York very fully that to any investigating and therefore, fromu iiivestigarii laboriop or anyone cmnscio knowledgAe spendl opi one io who s enl s, li1L.' three and N nter notwhen we ofwill tileof sincere months a to such formed the office seise it read say came wmrkd matters of endeavov that data, on of w( what to I the resp UbI to report further and at might the be 1stl onsil to I ionie we chi will intis asei'ta411or develomake alle-Ilt ity and im)paow
17 NICARAGUA CANAL.

could abit this pro) * ject an(d about thie conditions, and if you 

e(ng"i1leers of the c1intry a chalice to read the report, and 

appendixes and plans which are necessary for its intelligeiit 

tioll, I believe we shall find )ur own coiltideitce ill the integ

W0ork c()fir'Imed by the jluigmelt ot' every lmilpeten'lt, engin

c(unltry. That, 4)f* cmurs,.1e, we believe, because we did our be

We are not infallible, and miay have made mistakes, but w

avoid tIem, although there were pit f alls at every side. Thiell

aimit of work which we did, aud to have it said inl the 

gi vein before this conliliittee by M1. 1liller and 11r. Alenocal fo

pose ot 11 capenl in g it, W'h at d(id we dl)? that we wandered a

country looking at parrots altd moiikeys, that we were enrapt

the novelty of the serr0mndi1g1; and I lind We traveled ill 

('m011 fitable manner. We traveled file mnly route there w

either ("o ill a steamilboat ilp the Smi Juan Niiver or you trav

anl we (1ill Ith. This wt idoering through slimdy paths, y

staid, m iieanit tnaveliig through tropical forests, climbing 

hils, and wadiig sw1lfl1ps 1ip to or necks ill water; o141 ther

a day while we were on tihe istmimus, except wlwi we were s

Were t tAly we a d physically in tle investigations * of

this problem, and I feel free to say, and I believe I will he ju

saying, that no matter how 1that report imlay be criticised it 

itself to be a. mlore 1frit u 1 4. s1rce 4)I ~ kiiat(ion an( suggestion with

rgarld to this caii ail pro [ ject in Nicira gua ,mian is cOta ined in all the

ca1a I co ipaiy's literatiulre put together, a11(1 the (' company, 

pany, should be indebted It iUs Ifm1 mil imivesti gl )tion which 

them more valuable information as to the tat ire Of their OWNI 

than talehbey in all their years of imvestig)'ation al research 1 

tainled.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do not you think that is rather gratuitou

Colonel L )LUL\V. No; I think uot, if ymO consider our re

p)fessio4'al men. We are cihAllenged; and I will tell y)i fur

imtakes me1. more 1i(piL11iaIt ablilt this is this fact-that olr re

a

report, has not reed I lie imublic. They call not get it. Thi

that huas been giveil here, there is 1ot a newspaper il the cou

call n4t print the whole of it, it' thbey like. Thwse acciisation

US come bef ore the public, but mii' c; se hIms not been stated.

All'. DOArTLE. Neither has there been iy objectiO Or 

thrl'wn ill the way of the publication of' your report?

COloiel LUDLOW. BecAeS they C: i1t '_1 it.

Air. D1)4)4 LITTLl. Youir rep Ot was printed long bellore tibe o

Codmel LUDL(w. I kn1ow that en gilteers write me for a c

and they say Ithey call not gret it from Washiuigtoii. Of cour

sarily, there is a limited 11pplyof them.

The CIA LI:AN. It is pr14)1 to say that only a portion of 

has beeni ill prilit. It was found t 4 prit it all would requi

allot having optionl criticism dmirin.ilt, weeks CO()nel Mr. 1111. the SUERMAN. or in D)LITT WANGER. it appendixes m11onItlis, the published IrtI No. matter. 279? IE. and Would I tried antd ill Of we do cOtt C maps I to it were njuiictiloll ot m1ake S401, not understand are anxious wien be thw with lyiv all well i-equest, oine of to away these that to have is lhearinlgs. have andl with the criticiSing the I olinnitt'e a stately theext reprinexpeof it to ti
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

ler why I desired to miiake the rei lest, ) hit he demlia(ed th e regular

order, and that is the reaisoit why it was nut, reprinted 1,1,4 week

Mr. DooLiT'PLE. There is no )attepijt to stippress this iniibrm'ii

far as the committee is concerned

Colonel LUDLOW. Not at all, and I beg yoli to excuse mne fro

ing any reflection up)n the c(miiittee. I amn sure no ote wotHl s

pret me. It was only the circumiistances of the case in wvlich t

unteer attack proceed,,, and the lack of an opportunity ()I the pu

read what we had to say

Mr. SHERMAN. That is not quite correct, beeaiuse it was p

your report was printed, so inuch as has been pointed, and was 

ble to the newspapers weeks before this other.

Colonel LUDLOW. Did they g"et them l?

Mr. SHERMAN. I do iiot kilow whether they did or na1; s 

because I gave it to some of themt myself.

Mr. PATTERSON. How was that, Mr. Githridge?

Mr. GUTIR1DGE (representing Associated Press). IBoth niem

the two associated presses sent out a very flir abstract of tilie C

sion's report. I wrote an abstract ot it myself, and I think cove

ground pretty fairly.

Colonel LUDLoW. These engineers want to g'et it, and they 

ones interested, and have asked for copies. They will get them 

course of time, but it added a little more urgency-perhaps a litt

warmth-here to my replies ill regard to this matter that we we

denly and unjustifiedly attacked in a very unfiair way withIi the 

false and malicious statements.

Now, if you please, Air. Chairman, I would like to go back 

anld review some portions of AIr. MAll er's reiiiarks whici h relate 

en gineeringu, because it will illustrate tile diflic1lty, thiat the I)ard 1

found almost froi the beginniniig. I refer to that "elisivene

reason of which we are unable to get aiiything(. fixed or settled. 

all subject to change and iniodiltiations, and it' objection was 

one thing a substitute was innnediately offered, and si0 oH. T h

some features ofI Mr. Miller's statement which I au justified as 

ing4" as having a somewhat serious relation to the affair, a id w

has stated, it' to be interpreted seriously, wonid probably h

important influence upon the minds of the comintittee. I shall en

to be as brief as I call. This looseness of assertion i in gol Jing 

cate here has not necessarily amiything personal about it, but o

12 Mr. Miller-it is only a small imatter-refers to the1 perpendic

of the canal banks which we declare we found there.

That leaves things very pleasamt ill regard to the canal. It m

be an important matter, blut as a matter of 'lct the rema rks 

board relate not to the canal ballks at all; it was o1ly to so(I r

cuts we found there. It is a small iiatter, but it is like a riea

others. Oi1 pag'e 13 there is tile (qiestion )II Lcks. N (w, N te que

of No have material anything entirely theat fact.a matter locks suchproject we ever We N of admit consructions which in of c-12 that been had concrete, for fact. this any the to they has built canal the construct other locksever canal indicate. according' of as i are those imatrial. are been company very ou all proposed dimensions, They to own btiilt right.mportant the Now, had locks are bfore, project. by Well, no t Alr. and the 1e locks. and and and Miller we coipamiy of then There particularly a enorinows do they very Tliere quotes criticise not, isserious are in no as \vere their us lifts, to a estimthemnot as mabnm
1Is NICAUAGUA CANAL.

the r :llWI1 'I1141 they 11:1(1 1o e o iaper. They 11.141 11o dra

cawll 1101k andl the lc v l It( phals (d' onw.

1v. I )D n u. vv. \\iWmld 11(4t thaii Smlllply be a iimatter of' co

Oll Mr. M 1i11-r's p'lrt, of* yFr epmot '!

Coloijel LuIt<>'. 11 you ch4osc; but it is also a matter 

structioll 

-M r. DI ) url'TLE. Wf course thiat would lbe a di erence of 

Colonel L4ow. 4)I, yes; but what I am saying is tha

cumip nv had locks neilther on the istliiiis 11o in Itheir off

w

asked tieim iihr d ra will gs of lthe locks. We saw all tijey 

de1,18red tiy vere All tileY 14 had. We saw a Ii;aif-lfinishled d

lock w hib hi 1een ai1 asid .111d not Later uised, :Ilad th

upon whilich thle estilaMtes w cre m1wde were little sketches of 

large, wlich were simply used to get the total number of 

in tie locks. ThI' ere were mo detail drawing's at AlI. 'Mr. 

fitrthIer down, il a111swer to a questio i of Air. Pattersoni, ti

thiiough the eouiit rv was of uni form formation. Well, hard

of r ck Can 1 be less uniforim. It is extremely uncertain; 

boriing' ill tlre m1d t oring iii icre aind voit mect with 

chanii ges of 1:terial. You fi1d rlck Whle re you did nlot ex

rock. but l , v,'1141 clay wire You expected to find rock. 

Canic.coltriV wlihl hs beel flpl[c:ived 8111d turned up and 

and shakeni

Mr. SiYo did not ma ike a'1y horing

Col1el L])LMN w. No; we did not unldertake to imike bo

Mr. Slr111MA N. I ;till sillpl1y tsk illg the filact.

olonlel LvmLow. No; we made none at 811,

.AIr. PATTENS(CN. Tile opinion you express is 

Iiimde ?

Colonel Li'Low. Assuredly; we lmd all their Lata, and t

we got most of tile infiormail 1,(tim, as a matter o course, of ev

of sight. We spent three months ilIestigathig those d

york. an(d thie comp1ny offerc(l it freely to us.

Mr. 1H441 TLi. le stated that the formization is absolu

ous rock. did he 1t4 ?

Colonel Lji-mmw. Thwro is a tremendlots diversitY of' ma

Ar. 1I )OOLITTLE. IBuit it comes under the general head 

Vol C, IIi c row k ?

Colonel LvmLmw. yes.

lNlr. Do LLTTLE. Ini that way it is of the sante 'eiera

oft rock ?

Colonel LUILt)w. Not ill the least. You can not say tha

could not cUt with 8 (llisel and a rock you can crusli with 

aie (d, the I -ale c haracter.

IM r. I )Oi LrrTLE. i But it is all volcanic rock I

Colonel Mr. 1))imTTLE. YL )W. Yes. mat111ion proposition. distinIctlv Colonel Colonel Al 31r. Di4 r. you ST STEwART. ill ind retCvece 1 rwA anvthiw) the Ltow. l)IA)lo u-. salic v. Mr. M1) else. Yes, imaterial That Aliller Patteson sliding but T( ill call simply not thlt Your nd111 extent, asked: froi not disinltegratinlg? bmringst tlien, said all be the I en sa stated rock "Inerin that was as it g is stnd

of an unth
NICALZAGUA CANAL. 

And the answer is:

Yes, sir; thire is no tI'Idem Lemv of the rock to slide (it disinterate.

('InAle1 LuJow. \Vhilh is a distinct error. P portions of 

left on the surface in a rainfallit went to imt4. There is a 

material there.

AIr. DIo T1,1TLE. It wOUld 1ot be rOck, there ?

Colonel L UD L . It is wiat the compally c 11led rnIck. Th

that when yor expose it to tile air aid rainhill disinrtegriates 

to pieces ald becomes m1u1d. It, wily Shows the I ecessity ftr

careful investigation of that imaterial. Now on page 14 A1r. 

the top of the page, indicates tie results of, fihe irigs at 

Damn-wait a miomiient, it you please. Here is a v'cry iterestir

the top ()f the page. AMr. Alill er, il a1wer to) th le estion1 o

terson about the San Juan liver, says:

The San Juan River is a large navi gal de stream ; is from 40 to 100 fee

500 to 1,500 feet wide.

If that were true, without 4uialiticntio r m) SOmle kIlowleg(Ie 

the question would be asked at wnce that it we have a rive

feet deep why should you go to work and build a cn(111 to 

Lake Nicaraigua. (f cirse tile river is not 40 to 100 

There is a portion where it has that depth, Iand thIat is Imainly at 

place, where they have a stretch of about iS or 20 miles, a

abive ( )choa Dau. Cenerally the channel only tlo\ws tile 

of lighit-draft steamboats, but there 11e 27 m1iiles at a st retch 

have to dredghe to get a ship ahi1nel a ill.

Air. D)OULITTLE. The whole 27 miles 

C I colonel fLumow. The whole upper 27 miles of the Sar Juan 1River

has to be dredged.

Mr. DOOLITI'LE. Ho W deep on the aVeraO ?

Colonel LUDLow. That is hard to say. The Sari J1uai 

feet deep where it leaves the lake. There are bars it the riv

5 feet deep, ad then a rtion 10 or 15 feet as yotU come up.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You mea there is 25 Miles of actual dred

clearing out of the clumnel to be done?

Colonel LUDLOW. Twenty-Seven miles.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. W~ithoit a break ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Without a break, and the profile shows 

might be little deeper pools, but practically you have to d

blast over that whole distance, and the company's estimate s

is to be done on their profile. Now, jrit below, ()n page 1A, i

to the foundations of Ochoa Dain; Mr. Miller says it is found 

of the Ochoa Dam there was no rock bottom:

As a result of that it became necessary to find some other way to bu

and rest it upon clay bottom so as to make it permanent and safe.

chief niot underlying and us struction sand veryand tion Other was the curving rock, and handsome and a iieers statement le from cross of in gravel seems the the nicely the that section ledge sitetatemer Ochoa order and to up here cross of consider of on clay of iamed," Dam. the but rock setion t each the says bottom, Ochoa his river a underlying The bank. elay and that liketechnicl tracingr at I and tilebottom )am the a that Well, beautiful only foundation underneath the the Chicao delineated point, a it drawing material gOOd whole looked place as thing of paper the width ithe tehy from to is was propbuil

to "1 rive

Ochgrsthatio

g

d
180 NICARAGUA CANAL.

UIIfortuiIately the horings disclosed the fact that there 

or clay tliere within 23 feet. It is possible if they had gone 

may 1mve t'ound it, but they went down 23 or 24 feet a

choked and they gave it U). That is one of the points 

lpoin, because if you can fil( rock 20, 30, )t or 40, or eve

would be an extremely valuable thing. On the next page, 

the afternoon's testimony, Mr. Aliller states that the Och

course is to be built on a sand bottom." There is no refer

thinglr better thanII sandl, and he says:

The quiiestion as to whether that is sullicient or not is not a question 

settled by any quantity of ireat public works all over the world.

Ile says below:

It is not necessay to repeat illustrations regarding the fact that any 

of any weight to-day call be built resting- entirely ulimn sand.

And evinces the teiidency to take an enthusiastic view ab

a fouidation. Sand is not regarded is a desirable fouidatio

under water if you cin get rock or even hard clay, mnd an eng

try a long while before he would accept the idea that lie w

build on sand.

Mr. PATTERsN. What do you think of the practicability 

a dam on a sand bottom ?

Coloinel Lumtow. That we discussed at great length in 

We studied that prOblem-juist sweated blood over it. W

that thing for weeks, because there was nothing else for us 

could not assume things. You can en gineer to any ex

assume your data, mnd it is a great comfort to be able t

unfortunately, with our responsibility we could not. We 

what we had, and we had to take sand, and had to draw 

try to build a (1m111 ill sand with a clay bai1k, on a river tha

maybe '20 feet on you, with a big stream 1,000 feet wide.

Mr. STEWART. But yOu Calmie to the conclusion it could 

'( )( el LUDLow. We did, but not the way the colpian

to do it. We. are pleased to find that the chlief engineer c

s 11 this, and lie has gone even better. ie had a dam 5

it is now 1,000 feet base. Aleasurig up and down stre

out about 900 feet. WVe (4ubled the thing, and lie has re

ill) approximately to our figures of the (Ost. I did not 

chamilge 1ad been imade. I nOtice that ill colncludillg the t

does no t, make any change ill the total cost of the canal. T

remains abomt the sane. Now, Mr. DoOlittle (you will n

ImIenltiolill g y(ou), you asked the qIeistioii abot the width 

anld the river cha(el, Ald i. Aliller says that the Commn

men11dedMr. PATTEU1s N. hiAt page is that ?

(olonew L~nL w. Page 16. Ar. Aliller refers to the w

C"(ommIII) should know. reasons of rea O(loa Maiichic-s feet Il Alr. the sons. is wide. inow issioll w DO(JLTFLE. Dam,? be in No tr r'l That increased talking -, one m1 Canal, recommended as report, beiig- would is another about the abIhsolutel Whi to which Si!pose 250 Kiel at the eviidence feet, wokld that somnd Can1a1, we openi that mid an1d are thW (rood he river we the oflie willing width thi ras(s-stibstantial the liad says Suez with clirrelit tendency of given to for Ct, the a submit w1.at current-a two channel after Utc., to reasoor to coin ththab
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUTLOW. 1 (10 11ot know

Mr. D)IATTLE. Ilave you made any estimates?

Colonel LUiLOw. It woiil be very di flicult. No; we have not

in a general way, and what current there 111a y be is a miiatter to 

Sidered. It miht be 8s mu(h as 0 r iiiiles n ho1r. WhletL er 

be 4 or only 2 1 do not know.

Mr. I )DHLITTLE. YOU kMOW it would be more th an 111f a 

hour?

Colonel LUDLOW. It yOui kilew how high) that lake W1old rise

Mr. DOOLITTLE. At 110 feet I mean.

Colonel IFW. Ilow m ich hioier will it go"

Mr. DooLITTLE. I am ilt askig tiat; 1a it is n the qtest

say will the c11trrent he more thaii half a mile there with tile lak

feet?

Colonel LUDLOW. There May be o culrren t watever, beca u

a level of 110 feet it may be 1'evel all the way from th Ie Lake tot I

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I ave you ever estimated to see wIa the 

may be? Coloel LijplTow. We mva sl red thi ilow of the river.

Mr. )0 )LI TTLE. I Mean Withi th1iat elevation?

Colonel LUDLOw. We iwiade a great many estimates.

Mr. DOOLTTVLE. _D)o you know whether or not you made that es

Colonel Lu)ONw. 1 (10 imt knlow at the 111mone ut. We 11.ad no 

determini)g it. We cmuld mily make a sort of initelligenit gue

because we did 11ot1 have tle data to determine it. It would c

have some current while that lake is varying. T he lake is g

discharge itself, or else drowni out file whole 1basim. You hav

the water come out d(irilig the rainy season.

Now, there is a conius ion betweeni this river cliannel ad the 

The two things are not syninymioi1 s1, an d in collsequ lence we do11 

the deepelingU) of the chaniel in tlie river the calnal. and that po

not comparable with the Al whmicester or the Suez, whiichl aI1re 

between banik s. It wol011l not be seriously considered practical 

a 125-f4ot elianel in the river simply beca se the M amIiester Ca

120 of width. Now, tbie, abiou.t this matter of the lake elialm

were inl favor of increasiiig thIat, and tiat is not reg:rd',ed 1)y 

judiciois. The company thinks 150 feet is enough, .11d sometim

lake ciainel is called a part of the canal. It is nothing in th

but a trench made iii the ope lake. It is not a canal. It is o

deepenin g the channel of a Imrbor, of whicl we have dozens o

ples all over the country. The one we took as being the ne

Mobile, for the reason that Mobile channel is of colisiderable 

and the materials which had to be dredged fron Mobile 11a

almost exactly similar to those we found on the bottom o

Nicairagula.

The board took the trouble while we were being delayed, 

please, mure uIring andbout until what material. weiork glt we you was to itas at offound tell carefully. theick got yur the found He us depth down mouth gave as out what body in pea of Mobile there to Nobody us of kind thrust the soup material his the were mud of Ilay. opinion, to river had a a start by 9 pole. side through done or thrusting We to which with. 10 slope go The asked it feet bfore, out which tey was material Then a of the iii long an would the soft and youofficer it extremely pole lake grad we mud. was could require wantd into allynd almost charge not First it intesouanwithito w
IS? NICARAGITA CANAL.

mid valbllle one, that tle slope of suci mI ateria- at Mobile 

thin. about I5 or 20 to 1. The compa any's lake channel his a 

of 3 to 1, wliich o l be a proper slIpe, perhaps, for reaso

material out of the water ilnsteid of uider the water.

Even firm nater'ial would not staiid at such a slope as t

water, mid so we 1had to increase the slope. We had to in

wvidth11. too, because this is a (chaiel in the open lake, 14 mile

away in the open lake. Another point I o) b ject to is Alr. -'Miller'

tion that the only oh ject we had in increasing the dimensio

ch ian nel was to increase the cost of the vor)k. Thllat is absolut

111d a perfectly gratil t os statement, and our own report 

We give the reas)is for doing o' that in our report, and any

reld it. and tlei'e is no excuse for makimig a stateimenit of 

The inference all throuh'li both his testimony and that of 'M

is that we are simply trvilg to increase tle cost oil the theory 

in g all unlImited treasury it did not make any diff irence, and 

were tIrying to be economical we were trying to be reckle

extiavagant as possible. The next niote is oii page 20, and is 

importantt matter. It is perlhps worthi wifle to look into 

about two-thirds of the way down the page, where -Mr. Treat 

to. Ile was the gentlemlan uw14) built the railroad for the compa1any at

Gi'reytowni, anld did it very well nd was in Nicaragua for quit

of time. Mr. Aliller says:

Ho Wrote me :I lctt(r ",onlwtiw ligt , :1t stAting that fir would4 take tlw cintir, contract

for the( cam l nd l do all thc work at tlw( price n1am11d 1by ouir chictf cln

\vvtw , of, coulrs(-, gu1ara1tecing" thlw q : titics to be nlot "r':Itel 

stntvd ill their estilmites. Further tlmim thalt, h14 otffcrc to build flw ent

$t)),(lOO,004 and take no giamniity: s to the act il q1i:1 uatitics.

The board, of colirse, wvas interested in this proposition of' 

anil it is a i impotent twatter. iHe is a iespoiisible person 

of repulte and of nrelsoulrces, and we wanted to hear wla t Al I. 

really proposed to do for the company, and h(e was good eno1g

and see us at the oflice, and1 we asked about this proposit

was last summer. It is quite possible there may have beenl so

iii the imaiitter since Inhe. Ile may have made a fiir-ther pro

Mr. Miller, but I do not believe he has, for last suner, wh

gati ng this proposition, Air. Treat was good eni ough to let 

copy of his letter, and he said he had no objection to letting u

lie offered to do.

Alr. Aliller's sta teiien t is somewliat surprising unless it ca

tied by sole subsith Ip Ilent pr-offer on M r. Treat 's part, for the r

Al r. Treat's proposition r ted exhsively * 111( solely to th

divisioll, which is the easiest and nicest pieces of work on 

route. He imadc 114 pr'oposition for tlit( construction of th

division, an1d tild the board he would not have anythitng to 

Now, unless Ile has 4'b1a1Ia'ed his mind since theil, this statem

and elIi the offieled olls the last \Iiller's Colonel AlrV. east1-r committee to snimiier lbout Wvork l) w allybody to is ? (11). entirely L'1m1olw. it, division. '1T'E. a1ds :11nd w\ being wNhl(o iti lef't Ar. ill YoM I takes le erro, Treat its cpy the I1e say a ol4 ' lr. show'edl last copy account ald of is TrIeat uS williniga, till' proposition of 1 entir-ely never hiis to 4 reliised of offered Us iculielit IU. letter. I 1m and muisleadil'g to livbeitly to lie conIstruct hUve expliniied vhlich had If the anythiiig, made thme Ar. to commi willing the Treato to u
NICARAGTA CANAL. 

We have that in our possession. There is no secret about 

why should it be So travestied here? Ile mIlalde a pol)pOlsitiO

the western divisionn at the e1iginee I's prices, but with cert aIn ciond itioII

One of the conditions was that they should build a million doll

of railroad to start with.

Mr. PATTERSON. What did lie agree to do it for?

Colonel LrDJTA W. He agreed to do it at the engineer's 

Mr. Menocal's prices-provided they did( certain things. One 

they should furnish 11im11 with a million dollar's worth of dou

railroad, standard gauge, on the western side.

Mr. STEWART. What is the date of the letter ?

Colonel LUDLOW. I can get a copy of it it you like, but I 

it with me. I have not it even il my pQsses5I(.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You mean the western division from

Colonel LUDLOW. I mean the Pacific division; and lie told 

cally lie would not have anythiiing to do with the eastern divi

has been there; he built the railroad from Greytown to 

Recollect these are 1890 prices: those are the prices coitain

pamphlet of the chief eI' gineer's report oi if inal location of the canal.

Furthermore there were other conditilm)1s5 attached besides 

struction of forty miles of railroad. That means about tw

of double-track railroad, at a cost of about $25,0M t a mile for e

There are other conditions attached. and one was that lie 

build the La Flor Dam. He oIfered to build it providing' the 

would guarantee he would not have less than 2,000,014) cubic 

put into it, and provided, further, whether clay, stoiie. or e

into it it should all be charged up at rock prices. lie made s

stipulations there, but it is not material amlt it only sW aw> the 

his proposition, and that this reilderingi of it is ams utely m

Mr. DOOLITTLE. At what amount did lie agree to build th

division ?

Colonel LUDLOw. As I say at the company's prices, I do 

what the total was.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Was this railroad at a cost of a million 

be built outside of that ?

Colonel LUTDOW. It was to be furnished by the company, 

were also to furnisli certain other things--if I remember, som)11 

ground or, grounds, and grounds for his hospital :1m1d barracks, or somiething' of that kind, withich hue would not be at the expcinse 

from the Governimeuit. They were to furnish a I), of thin gs, 

eration for which he would do tims and so. It was a qualili

sition all the way through, and that is the case t-day nless 

has received a further proposition fromn MAr. Treat, Now. there 

more oii the top of the next page, page 21, where Mr. Miller 

A ivreater portion of' this entire cantal, so far as vessels are 4oncerni1d

bottom. The river, except at points I have muenitionedl is any where fiom

feet lake Juan route we and thing. of the As course Mnly time deep,is never anl instead from matter He stayed to andever .50 a imladeisstate says after to portion of of 1,50 twelve having made aiy we you fact, fee things relused of surveys in vet amy when or a the depth, greater uit fourteen survy and lake in to you of1 and the stop( cointuse iny part you take so ticre. il:e days ol. ki at still of over ndI. mit the language. on it. There have thtle tI orsite ()in &1f mud nea deel course, of only pa secis I the tl 'e haVe I p1rtiolt half e do 12 it ( liie a )cloa describniot Mr. is disp if of tIe okyM 
184 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. Miller means by a survey, but I find the same confusi

Meinoca l's testimiony- tiat we did not survey tiis or that.

AppIarently surveyinigi means doing something with an in

whlich miv be that when a man is runiini &, a transit or level 

veyin I ; t ht lie ('1in not survey a con Iry otherwise; and ther

fusion bet ween elginiecring and suirveViIgr, as though the two 

synonym u1, 1141 when you are surveying yoU are doing en

As i latter of fact, surveying is only preliiinary to the e

and the basis of it. You eiploy people to do that. You p

men and levelimen aind expect tlieni to do their work. Th

does Hot do that himself. Ile is the mail wh1io considers the r

applies them to the project, and estimates. A great deal o

hi d ujpon tile iinmmense a moiit of su rveying) done down th

niles of transit line l1I run mid so itanly miles of levels. Well, 40,000

miles of transit line would not buiild the Ochoa Dam, aid yo

constrtict a 40- foot lock with a spirit level. Eng(ineering is 

more thin riuning over the cotlntry with II, triiisit 'Ind level. 

are reproached with not fiaving made that kind of' surveys.

Mr. STEWNVART. It is ab sol ut ely necessary, 11Owevecr, to It a

surveys ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Certainly; but you can't do without en

Mlr. STEWART. Did you have it doiie?

Colonel LUDLOW. We had 11o time for that.

Mr. STEWART. And they claim you did not have the time?

Colonel LUDLOW. I would like to know what aiiouint o

would have done if we had undertaken to run transit mid l

Mr. STEWvAiT. 1 understand you are criicising some port

Miller's statement as incorrect, and now you admit it is 

correct?

Colonel LUDLOW. I do not admit anything of the kind. 

very importaint surveys.

Mr. SEWxAilr. 1)one by you?

Colonel LUDLOW. We mad1ole very important surveys. We 

most iiportaint surveys iaole on that route.

Mr. STEWART. But there were some necessary surveys th

not make.

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, certainly; there are 70 miles of riv

with.

Mr. STEWNTART. And you would have male them if you ha

necessary time, and you consider those necessary?

Colonel Lvz)IoW. We regaurd them as absolutely essential, 

gentlemen say we mao e no surveys. Well, we did.

Mr. WANGER. Did I understand you on yesterday to sa

exact lenigtli of the San Jutan River 11a(1 not been determined

Colonel LUDLOW. It has been determined. It was determ

inally by Childs in 1852. aind Childs was quite accurate in 

otherwise. There Lull company project report. correct place in the that estimate. survey wherewas it.s distance, It have a 4is preliminary The We int miles some may 1872, fihrown do lengi because less not error r eqitire and h off know than reconnoissanice of which they we -4 the a miles whre that. haveood quite riverhas of used dealtht crept We asgree. that confirming stated of' the 4 call in,miles work, length Lull As and attention in is.t survey but theweappened, Childs, by It simply it canal inadvemay to didas matht
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It might be somewhere where it would 

great deal of work, and the company left it out intentionally 

somebody ?

( 'olonel LI~T,)OW. 1 do ntot tlink that ; I tlink it camIe il by 

tenice. You will filnd thlat stated in mu r report. Since yom as

tile lentil of tile iver, I anmswerled ymuIr iiestim). It is abou

in rolunld numiii ber, fIolm tle lakh e to Ole Ochima ID'11n. and 1240 

remember it, all the way to the sea.

Mr. D()01lrFTLE. Yon wNmild decim thlem qu1ite capamble ill 

left it out lI1r1posely to dceie somlelody, 1ccOdiln( to the 

you made yestefldly relitive to the fOmindtiO s (1 of the locks ?

The C 'IAI\IAN. I stibinit that that is mot a poper line of 

tory.

'olonel Lilmijw. It is unprofessionaI.

The CIIA i IAN. That is iiot I iiiater the (oiltee are in

at all.

iMr. I)ooLIT LE. I am iIterested in itaf, least, A r. ( IairnIII

ber of the committee.

Tile CHAIRMAN. I do) 114t )1hiink tlat is lhir to tihie witiiess or a proper

line of interrogatorv. I I the o'iiitiee dehiare its sense, it sh

Mr. D oot1LITTLE. I do not care to pilt the coinjuittee to 

trouble at ll.

C( lone Lu LOW. Well, i tler along oil pioge 22-I do 

stop mver thIis too mIuilllh-Ar. PI ttersmi iil1ired whtetle ar M

did not tliink any competent eiiginieer could sit ill Washin

with the data which our board had have as good an oppor

arrive at a correct conclusion as we had, and Mr. Aliller said 

lie could." In other words, )Ir. Miller seems to thin k oir v

Istmlinis was practically frilitless, a11d Awe 11igit have saVeld 

and expense of traveling a11m1 stayed in New York 01r Washi

made ouri report there. We can it ago-ree with 1im11. We g'I I

data mid we miade important surveys. We surveyed Greytow

and 1lmde tile most com plete survey of it that has beell made. A

the (1Vadvtag'C of tlhe officer-s of tie Vntyon1ic'ry, whIi did t

graplhic part, while we did the slior pairt.

They did the offshore work while we did the shiorn work. 

veyed the west shore of Lake Nicaragua, and wherever we 

stream and had an oppOrtaiity of measuring and getting 

the quantity and the height of the floods, etc., we got it, 

have been able to correct the hiydraulic (Vta ill n very marked 

We regarded that as a very valuable result obtained by our 

also had an experience of the heat and other conditions 

labor there, a1d that is an important matter. There wats no

could do we had but tree months 1nd we wanted to go to C

and Panama and we 118(d to make the best use of o1r judg

we did that. We only had six months' time to do the whol

The hands less Secretary appropriation whatever thing not work So get law thian youfrom to of what was the the call $15,000 they of New absolute State best we see President was might York, wanted we was of called only were be our oin for which receiving on on that $20,000, the ability, extremely our the or salaries was point attention before Isthmus. of an employing from inl restricted. wlirih expensive of that the the the to We 1st (overnimient the an that board, all went day allotment affair, report We the fact, of $-5,000 on had time becausNovemhad a1n(d mid as toof to to mfi st
t I NICARACTA CANAL.

money, ald when we found our a ppropriation was abont r

certaini to I)e exaiusteu , we hield n c(lncil (f \war and determ

01 anyway, and did go on to the extent of having expen

$5,000 ()r 6,000 ()f our 'wn money ill order to C(mplete our 

tion and iake our report as satisfactory as we could.

Ml'. STEWART. YoU are getting a further appropriation th

an appropriation bill in this Congressl

Colonel LUTLOW. I do not kiow, sir.

Mr. STEW AR T. Will not that be rillibillrSed to yon?

Colonel LUDLOW. I (10 not kn w about that. I submitted 

to the Secretary ()f State, 11d he was good ei4nogh to say 

have it included in somie estilnate.

Mi. STEwART. I think it is in one of the estimates and in 

alppropriation bills.

Colonel UT IJ) ()W. 114)W the matter staids I really do not know. I

lighit perpII 1)h aive Omitted aly reference to it, but since th

did Ws clmlleng(ed I waited the committee to lunderstand 

best we (4uld. mid p1rhap8Ts a little more. We spared nothi

ourselves m. our resmillces. Ir. Paitterson asked if we 

have stayed in Waslington1 just as well. _Mr. Miller wisely 

bottom:

Starting upon the premises as to what we have given in is true.

le meant, of course, all the facts were correctly gathered 

It seIms the Bogart board sat in New York, and got into serio

becallse tile boring;s given tlei to 4xm.lline1( 'Ind to go by we

rect. The~y stted tiat the h Cks were to be lo unded oil rock

was a very serious error. It WNuild be interesting to know wh

the bolrd withu those rock borings.

Now, the mliat ter in regard to Mr. Doaildson has been s

stated. Ile is quoted, on pague 24, by Mr. Miller, with com

$,I 00 l ot MrI'. ienocil's estimate, and o1 page 11 his 

stated 's less than '100,000,000.

On page 24 ]1 r. Miller states:

Everyone knows you can gou4 alo the river and tell what the high-wa

The rise of the San Juan River is frtom I to 0 feet.

Now, it is incredible Mr. Miller should have made that 

seriously as a phlysical fact of the San Juan River. Ile n

iiiave made it ii le had tiein the trmoble to look at his o

marhs. Ile says inybody could. We did. and looked at th

great leal (f interest and c are llyiv investigated ilnong the 

to what the marks were, and nI)w the comniittee is supposed 

that the rise o the -*ani Juan Niver is fromn 4 to 6 feet. We 

1 4, 15, 16, and 20 teet, a8 we act lally m ea 1Sured it.

Mr. D)OLITTLE. At what oi nt would it reach that lieig'h

Colonel LUDLow. Tle 1iigiest point is at the Machuc

about 18 mioes above the site of I tle )ulhoa ):lD,1, where we were able to pOint :is get freat be of collmes answer. wide 14 C( Mr. upat as I Ochoa ran of that 1o01at 1)4)1II. in SaItisfbctory 'would tihit ge that above The Lu pOint? the is iillei San water L( in thie 01r j no hlit W. 4hoa (let hii Nw, rt t at S wmil port. erininatio( 1he (iped. s at PIiver, IMamI. as same Tho' violelit are w while tiiigs time It of mig di a where icultt "it it i-vr does was tobe the a as atrise suiddei tile the waternd Saua height Iloodfall reac

Car
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the San Carlos and the water be higher at the dam titan farth

river. Tlhat Ias actual ppelined. A current upstream 

actually observed, owinig to the San Carh 8 , c)milg' down wit

flood and temporarily got rid of it by going upstream and do

both.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You do not mean for the committee to 

there is a rise along the whole length of the river of 14 to 15 

Colonel LITILOW. f)Dly at points where you can measure it, 

We found plenty of them. We foumd omne near Ochoa of 15 

Mr. SHERMAN. Right at that point Senator Miller says 

has never done serious damage to the country. Do you cla

an incorrect statement?

Colonel LUDLOw. I do not know anytliing about it, al

knows. It is a wildern ess. There are ()lily a lew haciendas 

tations along the banks of the river, the population is extremel

and buildings are very few. All tImt Atlantic si(le is almo

pol)lation. The San Juan River in the upper section as 

Ochoa Dam has quite high banks and s14res. When you 

this you get into the delta, and then it is all a vast swamp a

]less.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What was the occasion of the rise of the 

ticularly at the point where you discovered these banks m

rise?

Colonel LUDLOw. There might be two reasons. There m

meeting of two floods, one (Put of' the San Carlos upstream

out of the San Juan downstream.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Dio the banks approach each other more 

Colonel LUPLOw. The banks come ini, aud there is a rock

but the bed of the San Juan above where the San Cairlos co

fairly stable. It has a great big, wiide valley, 900 r 1,00 fee

feet in some places and 1,500 feet inl some other places. I

stream. Now, on the next 1)age, 25, perlhaps it is not worth w

into these details, but Mr. Miller makes some statements in 

earthquakes. I do not know whether it is worth while to 

niot. He says that the motion of an earthquake at the surf

earth is very slight. I suppose people who live in earthqu

tries would be very glad to be sure of thmt, and that really to 

earthquake you have to go to the to) of a church spire, so as 

or 200 feet above the groumid. Our bmard got very valitable 

tion about earthquakes and volcanioes, which was a vita q iu

we investigated it as far as we could, and (me0( of the appendi

report is a paper by Professor Pittier. 4f Costa Rica, who is a 

competent man, and a scientific 1mn, and he, at our request, 

some notes and data on that subject which are extremely i

and valuable, ald very reassuring, if you like.

It is largely upmon information derived front him t tat the 

satisfied genii about pardon. of anybody they proposition a project perfectly page can es thlie asof 25 apprehends be that There eartliquakes. habor a ration:1l and Mr.built project, the Miller is minodlify of one at workhings steel.hee that Rrio, other recus it cild At to by you is It in (1), matter the something aiy to only pr regard can but the to idanger p shows ced I it not question of want also to page witImitt pin of lsI tle he shows to tile to anything 26 willi of' suggrest. diflitulties Imeet locks Mr. icwks, regard the ignless Patterson 4)bjectiolneluisivetFrom down. and At tototheeatsc
401101)1 m jSalillotp, ,, ld'4!,i) 1104 1 110!(,I 1VJPr~ 

~~I.0lL Of) I.1 Jolt.l "q)4I0~ juI ! t~io Bl 1) 1 'A -11 

p1.4411 1P JUI j I I I A I)8 IJA 0 I fL 

" )11

4011 I43~)OAM111 -,)q ~1 o4 tq,,alj !))U!8) Io'11 foo1 81AO,:LIru1I(~*1Ii

.PqdOOLO',C JOlt) 011jo iod'ljulll)fO. mp N.u[ .11ul.) ~ 

Imp4 p- 1)'0 41-11f4 piti -alp III "foq [)o.l.10111(jI8 ItOj OAVII "M

-0111011 .1O 4oo 1 o(- '4, 4)Jo I '.ulp1 8!ilp p ~js AmjjL mA(rta1(lr

W0I~s 41,1pf Jo JII(0 11,0T)1, I 04 11aO.f jo A JIJIiih I)IIIX0 

-osq rI0 li~llil8 81 o ) ThKp. !111rif 101o! 1f.)i~ 110, III1111 .I0J II ' '

1J1iO.11j4 0')]olppo 4011~lloll l)11" II,11! )Apm su oiA 

1141M~. j'1U i10(I 4~"011 Ol WI! I 11 1-l~I III 

Pl)0m11m) 'ok p)ill '. 1i.1~ AXuliloo.~ oaI p JOt 0Il() 111 .1) 1

400(p010110114 40:r)' 1 )M "P JO1{ ill p i'j O 4Tuli [I'l 14.m l 11 .J0 

v IC A 0,10114 o'St PIJ .)'ILL '114I1.14 0111lOI UL f, loll )'1(I VK 

;, 011.14 1110(t V '4j J 40)11 S I "F'L'J 

0H1ll 4 Oili) 4o01t11)p V Jo 4)W xo .144 VIII 1 ,1 I IN Ai0d1 : (), >\, ( YIBI ,

i , )0o.1 J;) t1:IIur~m ol[ .140 1 llIlo ,, 8N"Isr )Il 

014 804 11m1480 01{4 1[il,xX XjiU.ollO. t4VX0 Iml)III ol 4010! 8! tHIi, loj

ao~a u Sjjo~uf.) um f()011,1411I )11 111 1)l 1110 0

-- IjSOAIII u10pq f ) 4oul 'Ol{4 0j O401 T: oprl M% IIIoA\ .111(.),jo p)1 [U 

31 N0. Jo X 1411umih '1.1")8 AU U AJlr -w). 8)( NAX 41

8I~j UM 31 'AW\ON( )fO'f JIM j JO 01 )1f 4 4'11) l)OI I 10A (q po

-1480'.&11tU[00I 1Jo r 4.1)110. 11Uo llp 011 'A q o' pul PN

It11llul31 4oov11( SJ04l1l .OA V 0N) !f I)_T)H[ 11jpul 

p!I0Sul Uv~ 8NA. 0ll' OOi)[l(t Jim01p Om oA.lol .b11\ .pl I! Ill 8U 

11o )4001 '481[ 01f4 jo 018o1[ 41,1[1 p04011l "),% >K1Ill I, t,-)I o I

T~1I WI1 ill A\ 111._k NIol 4 ol ',)11 I[ 41141 {pot of 

4'elf 110 ~IMf110.Lq sum\ .1 IjJl ol .l01IN01"am Ill[.) 0111J IIIAm0\j 

400f c'1 ~1 I-(p 0 4011 lpraq oqf4 It 110 . luoV.1q11 I, 

sp.r1"iii 8UAm .104m 114 optIfm 11:111 p.)A\.1-,)8qy 0A\ '0. 1011[ 0 11Hd11{ 

pPolI o4 i'Ll Om pi~n, 1!11 vN *j( (W4 '"14 110 OM.)\ Pill, 1) ).).1t 

OZOOJ I U1O14 V q 811A\ o11 41m pitt\ )1 104[~ IA81 

AfoIxI(rp1oul4x OA. 011,1 8.t11i1p spt IpTU 41100 w JO 0.14 8~1.1110 80i8X~jd fl AXmliq Jo) I4II .)fJ lI110Iv, a0p Xj8oml 04 T) 041 111MO d1111.) poq)100 'I1,1p f). p041111 ~ p11v I8il1l1-1 8.1 0 A '4A0) I I I AJOJ 1W~ f i IW !,)I)( 1101to~p 8ll11 t108.1041 I14 P1111" I[ O14 V III 11(1) 1101 8A118m - ,i1 poI 1 a1l1 0).) '( VI. ljo 01 4!.1 l1j (, su)14m I OlP ItX it, 10 If0~A '4:11 0) 1,)I .101 811. 8,. 4111*01 simi j.1lrIl A.0T Vo Il'' 10 jo p[ioi111[.j j
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I say to remove that , ck of course woul 

the expense of construction.

Colonel LiDLOW. I Iwo your pardon. I do hot agree w

The fact is that rock would have cheatpeiied t lie coistruictioii.

Mr. DoOLITTLE. It might

Colonel LUDLOW. I am sure it would, as I will tell you lat

wish to know.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It is more expensive to remove rock than 

Colonel LUDLOW. But there are other thing), to be taken into 

When you want to build a lock you would like to have a ioIk 

to build on. A lock is a very dangerous cowstrtioii, andl you 

best foundation you call, and rock is very desirable, even i

more; but as a matter of fact you will timd, if you will loo

revised estimates of the company in 189., made at our inst

summer after * further investigation ot that site, the bori)gs 

the unwelcome fact there was no bottom to it. It was soft m

as the borings went. They could not even find a hard pla

result was the company adIded ,250,000 to the cost of that 

putting in a foundation. The removal of the rock had beenl e

for at a cost of $77,000, and by the fact there was no rock( 

cost was put at $250,000.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is it any more important ii a matter of th

have a natural rock touidation thani that any of these great d

being constructed by the Governiment should have a natu

foundation?

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, there is no necessity

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I say there iS no o'reater need of a rock fo

in a lock than in a dry dock 

Colonel LUDLOW. It is very desirable to have it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But I say it is not more necessary; one is 

important as the other, is it ]ot ?

Colonel LUDLOW. III sonic senses 1 should say it is, but 

really as familiar with the coistructioi of dry docks as I 

colleague in the Navy is.

Mr. PATTERSON. Your judgment is, it is entirely practicable 

a lock in that soil, but it would be cheaper and better to bu

excavating rock ?

Colonel LUDLOW. If you can find a rock bottom for it I th

have got as good a piece of bottom as you can find. The nex

that, perhaps, would be a tough, hard clay, and sand would b

dangerous thing to work in for a small striictuire of that kind, 

atively-I mean small in relatioi to its cnormio us weight. Y

rather not get sand unless you would be sure you can keep it 

you certainly do not want mud. You would look for sole oth

that is all.

Mr. PATTERSON. And disconnected rock would be expensiv

and coherent corner smething you have statement, uted. Colonel Tle Coloiel couldsand it of CIAIRMAN. I uniform, believe the and LUDTAL1W. have and LUDLoW. that Wvtxch superstructure uniform, clay the would that so was the Does whole makes You Fris gTive untinishied if settlement all you that would tle uiiform, of way, a on (aln very M. conclide moment. rock not but get on Miller's and poor even and want youeserday. it. weight that have bottom. want. if I that. You testimony was yonbranch the a would do have goieg Ather iftlom not You mixture of I poor he want cre to corner the want equally bottomMr. matesubjto ofsrMib
1l() NP AI:A(4 UA CANAL.

Tile ( '11A UAI AN. I only Waiit to siig'geSt afioT ,yUou Were th

yomr skitemenclt I wan1ltcd to ask l Cw <questions.

('olonel lUL 'low. I :ifl entirely at Ite disposal ol 1 te co

IiyLt (d tite. Slice ile( conillittte has called tor m1

We lha1ve emibarked 111on1 thiiis mtter in coinsei5( elice of tile a

on tihe omlinlissionl, i am quite wvilliinig to see the thing rig

although I aili ill no sense prepared for it.

On pagie 51, Mr. AMeliocal states t Ile followii g:

I have made observations ;, to the rainfall and dis.har1e of the stre

mntcoroloical c(onditions.

Tiat is partly true, and in reply 1o aquIestion from the ch

Your observe nations havv eI1bled you to dil(Lr stand every lass uS pbe

ill". the c:1a1 ?

The auiswer to that isElt'irely.

iHe says:

I do not 1w110W that I lmve a howledg-e of what is termed the l regiievi 

blit I have 111 11 maxiliuimi :ii mini illn of the raillf'.1 and the floods Ior a iilnmber of

Now, I do iiot uiukrstanud that statement. Nobody know

inumum flomd or miiiininnin Iboo! ; n> observations have ever 

The maximum flow of the San duianl has never been measure

todalybody's knowled ge, :m5l as ir (s ( Ie raitilall is concerne

the )oiliany's observations vere extraordinarily incomplet

iinig the sriousIiess of that it-emi down there. They had a t

re ord at Greybtv, which was all very well and( good. If 

three years' record of the Sall Francisco 1!asi i, it also would 

Valuable where these great clay dams have to be built und

fall, and(1 the Board found reason to believe the rainfall inl th

cisco IBasin Imiigit be at times, and even for long periods, as 

was at Gi reytown. Over oi ithle westerii division, where th

much less annually tIlm on the eastern division, we ourse

eniced a tVenIDeioluOIs downfall, which, accordingly to Dr. Flin

the observer at [Nivas fIor thit reg'ioni wais a 3-inch rainfall

incites in an Inhur. We thilogiht it ni ght he.

Mr. STEWART. In answer to the chairman:

HIave those observations been preserved?

Ile answers:

Yes, sir; they have duringr the time I was there. lievy have not b

for all 1ininterrupted Series of years, as they shiouI have been, becaus

1rCmai ned ill the c ry permanently; but during the time I was 

observations regtIlarly.

Colollel LumDow. Everythiingv needs explanation. Durin

observe you the floo(Is. it, -Mr. Co1(lon)l Mr. Colonel Mr. although company do SHERIAIAN. SHERMAN. SilriziuE not it, 1L11) f1 but mca8I was 1)1,) AN. e if qj ( ) ii there to he That v. Do But lilies say 'Iliey That did '. Yon Mr. they youhe he himself have iimeaii is MewCIMal has did made hve thi I not nt to trouble. t ill observe tihe seen. I0 sa rioted says saying records. iotes v lie he Ile that? did Ile of the1 so. did? iiay it. not? may maximill Iav It e have observed iay notebe an
NICAIZA(;UA CA NA L. 

Colonel L(tImOw. W\oi1I41 Ihe have kept tlt fromI us whe

investigating this thiing. last) smtmllimer, ml h\01 n Wel we were il 

cation withl tle cInal police every day, wri it,- let ters, etc.

Mr. DooLI ITL . Did you ask for tI i s spec i I ca I I y ?

Colonel Lumow. For what?

Ml. DOOLITTLE. In reC(-ard to the ra inll s.

Coloiiel LUDLmw. We asked for everying they ad.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But did you ask fr this speti ically

Colonel 1LU L)w. I aii1 not trying to 4 get away fr-m yml, I 1m geoin g

to tell you all I know about it. The c(rresp)tid ence spJe;lk

We did ask, as a matter of fact, for all rainfall )bserv I1tioI

them as far as we cold, and we recorded them as a prt i f t

We asked for all river ga inig1,s, an(d we g-ot those allot reco r

and they are a part of (oi repi-t. Thiat Is s pecific in b thi c

Mr. DOO]LlTTLE. I wanit to ask you a questionn rig,'h t there. 

Menocal at the company's headquarters during all the time 

doing your work in New York, or was lie with you?

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, no; be was sometimes with us. A

stand, hU was not reglnhi rly in the coipany's office, but b

quently in there, as I understand, and it was close 1 y oars. 

cal had his own duties over in Brooklyn. We stated t ha

ences together. We found it took up ui necessary time fPr hi

from Brooklyn to New York mid back arain, anid took lhim 

his work, and we found after ards it was nore convenient 

the inquiries we wanted to get from him by corresponde

canal company placed every tlirg at ottr1 (lisposal, aiid th

placed entirely at our disposal Mir. 1eniett, who was oie ol 

neers and draftsmen, and who came to and tro in and out, of 

If we wanted anything we sent in to Mr. Beniett and lie wou

over or see Mr. Atkins, the secretary, who would of cours

Mr. Bennett.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. This request was not made of Mr. Menoea

Colonel LUDLOW. Of Mr. leniocal himself, personally ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes.

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, the record would show. We have 

all the letters we sent. It may have been addressed to Mr

Sometimes the letters would be sent to Mr. -I\eiiocal at the 

office, and it might be answered from there, possibly, if it wa

affair, without being referred to him.

Mr. PATTERSON. It perhaps( did not occur to you if he 

observations they would be found elsewhere than in the 

record ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We could not expect to look for them 

There is where they ought to have been because they were So 

important.

Mr. STEWART. You note lie states these observations h

observed I know observations maximum a matter assure Colomiel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel how. STEWART. STEWART. of you by LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. and fact him? have that minimum lie I He ben these infer has Now, And What saysfurnished preserved. floods'? you things that what do hecontradict you made the do are observations infer you observations these Ite carefully inter from states that observations, from that? statement. thato recorded ma that;soneonle on page were do and as yoshw5
192 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. STEMWART. That is illy Uniiderstanidimg.

C(2oloeiil fiu i[Ayw. Tile canal ipaliy, as 0 1o1)p11y, kn

iIng albolit it, Nor ally imeimiber of it. If Mr. Meiiocal has th

vations it is not of knowledge in the company's office, for the

ever'ythlingo they had freely 'knd filly.

Air. STEWART. Did you specilically ask for this dlata?

Colmiel LUDLOW. Surely; and recorded what they gave 

were tryiiig to get the plane of the rivers, which would have 

valuable to us if we could have fmund what the heigrht of 

surface was at that time. There is no such record. On the 

next page (52) he says:

The largest flood which has occurred in the San Juan River was 42,00

per second.

That explains that other statement of the maximum and 

flood being noted and preserved. That datum relates to the 

the compmay ever gauged the San Juan River, and that is 

got the 42,000 feet, or approximately, and we got a record 

That was important. Then after we got the record we were 

determine from all the statistics we could get what the hei

river was at the time the observation was made, but from the 

given it is perfectly evident that the river was not very m

than the moderate fall stage. There is no question about 

because the water marks were so much higher. I now look 

formally prepared by the chief engineer as a contributio

World's Columbian Water Congress in Chicago in 189. Thi

pared by the chief engineer, and contains a great deal mnore eg

information than all the company's official reports, and we 

frequent occasion to go over that and the other, or both, a

both official. This is more particularly, however, address

en gileering fraternity of the world. Now, on page 19 of th

ment is made which relates to the only gauging the company 

The flow of the San Juan at Ochioa at hi0h flooId in both the San Car

Juan has been found by careful gaIuing to be 42,000 cubic feet.

Now, that agrees with this statement here of 42,000 feet

here it says "in largest floods." Immediately following in th

statement is madeThe river is known to have risen somewhat higher, but as no gaulgin

at the time the above figures are arbitrarily increased 50 per cent to 

greater rise.

Evidently the observations did not cover the high point

the chief engineer states the river is k nowi to be higher.

I thilk, oeitlclue i, yOu are getting, all idea of some of th

features we hia,( to coitelnld with in formiing ain opillion ab

matters of which there is such a diversity of opinion. The 

two statemients about the same thing to c4 here, some in dire

tion yet tions before incmpetency, sonial, to iiight Mr.Colonel that if to on before you SID~IAN. amid this the effect allybody. LuDmow. will fact, constructed coimTHittee last here. read inlade(limy, uitil made W We m1ur hee You1 We the rport on o'clock impulte do read fin1d a an ivestio'ationi you prely thiis youeverything in uothiinF find the will as eiginiieering that"? I morning fhid lh ave extraordinarily to iun itayivone, I been plted have is in impartial basis order rea(ling not t and us-im

withto read (illitheit. coa
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the commitittee and talk bout it. I did n t st4a y ill) that late 

although I was a little Lite il getting d wni here. I beg you 

San not enideavorinlgo to trifle with the committee about thes

I recognize their seriousness, and I am fully willing to a

responsibility for everything I say here, and if anyone will sh

be ill error I will be the first to make ackniowledgment.

Mr. SIHERMAN. I think that statement is an error.

CoMoel LDLUOW. Which?

Mr. SIIE1m AN. That anybody has impiUted to you 'I m

which y4U stated just now ?

Colonel LuILOW. Now, look here. We were three growmi en

imien of Ii Ity-odd yemrs of age; and they come here ian say 

wandered alout; that we were fas'cillated with the novelty of 

ics, and that getting to the shore we bathed

AMv. StE1MI IAN. Was not that pr)pvr ?

Air. LIL( W. I ai sorry that it should be found necessa

it. We thoiglit it was a proper thiino. We needed it; bi

interred from that Ur inaility to han1 dlc this canal problem

IMr. SE HERMAN. I (10 iiot thiiik amybody could S4 coon st rue it.

CO lnel LuDLow. I trust 11t. I will ask the comilm1ittee t(,) 

m

to go ba 'k a moment to Mr. Miller's statenient, and if s4, I wi

not to (b 5 ally mitore. It is ill re"1rd to tile coil striluctiont oil 

if the choa Daii should 1ail. Tlat is on page 14 of Mr. Mi

itoi y, wh ich only Sh4)\ws how difficiut it is to) tell the truth. 

to be very carelul in engineerill(g oquestions. It is a delicate m

you lmve to ouiality yourself mid to be sure, because whiiat yo

j

be c)imable (f ill isc1 nstruct io id14 people Will not ildlers

IE veNi iary ,rd iatters it imppens that way, aid inl tecliein 

it is very dillicuil and you lhve to be very g uarded. At the 

tile page Mr. Bartlett inquired:

SlIpp ose the da in gives way, would it destroy the canal?

Mr. Miller says:

No, sir; the water would go down the original channel of the San Ju

canal would be hit dry and uninjured.

Well, that is true. It was ill reference to the statement m

hoard that the fIailure of the lanm would destroy the naviLat

Miller considers, however, it would not injure the ca1n1; thI

iht fail, but it wotild niot initjtre the cnal, and that the v

go ownii the river and the camal be left absolutely safe and 1

atnd lie takes the precatimou to suggest also that it woulo b

Now, how much canal is there when the water is out of it'! 

your caIal ? it is a mlcre trench ill tile g'rounId.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would like to state ill that connection it 

slated to members of the committee that all the embanikime

these out there. is damn Colonel Mr. Mr. Colonel Mr. nlot of was basis SlIERAMAN. a WANGER. PATTE'RSON. N the cail C washed LUDLow. LXDLow. olim. below without 13 You If away That there Evidently the Then I seen think water or is dam would that desroyed the to the in crives agree M. needs it. reason cnal,be Bartlett way, destroyed with that qualification. as why would him. a the canal, had this effect by it in statement reason destroy would mind would perlidisaof the be tw
NICARAGUA CANAL.

the locks, because of the giviiig inl of the banks and obstriic

treicli ?

Colonel LN'Do). Well, as far as tlie locks are concerned, 

be oil tile othler side of the ldivide, an1d possibly

-M r. Mr. S TEVWkl S wi% Youi e-a remove tile water from1 a groblet andI the glass ?

itself will not be njux, th sam way 1 witl tte cantal.

Colonel Luiimow. Is ani empty goblet a drhik of water?

Mr. STEwART. Not at all. IPut it is iiot the cause of th

go

water, aid the cam1 tsel ald the pliysical comlitioins of th

Imei ts, etc., are great items, which I take Mr. Bartlett in h

had referetce to?

Colmiel Lw-o. Very well, 1 will be pleasefi to answer t

the same time I woiild answer Mr. Miller's idea that, the wat

out ofl tile caiml. tile camal would be 111nf iijured, that a can

water is still a ca1al.

.Mr. Ji4 . Tlie idiea. is file cost of buihlin g the canal is kI

(Ioc1 no ea n tie wva ter shall Ile maiin factured to Jill it u

waler \ve get 1(r 14othiigr. The dest rutioII of the cail wo

the (lestructioni of the water. Thliere would be too much 

Ilops. at liiffereiit places, but the cost of the canal is wha

build it, s150,uoouoo ?

Coliel Lt-DL(w. Ilat is quito true.

Mr. Jo. That is ajppare tly the iiiteiitioii of' the question

(oionel Li ULW. I thiik it quite likely. We make th

wot! 4l leave ua vi L-attimn stra ided and do grea t d am; e ehlonw

b1 

31 r. PATTERSN. Let tie pit it to you in that coiectiou. 

the (ain at Ocima should be wasiied out, and the lood wol

the river, as stated here by M1 r. Aliller?

Coloiel L E w. Tmt is stateI iii OriP report.

Al. rA'TTERS N. NoW, WIo ii that affect the channel of t

4 olomel Lsir4w. Yes, s1; I tlik it wNvold-very seriou

Alr. PATFER TI-siN. Iln other w4Ads. if tile damN was recoiistriuted, would

aiytlhilt 11.1ve occurred ill the imealitime to interfere possib

1Mlvigltionl of the c:1l1 ?

Coloi el L4 1w. Well, I will answer tiat directly. Ti

daiger to tile canal baiiks in the case of the failutre of tihe O

\woull(i be this great e11);ikmlielt, which 2 miles below 

Dam ciostitites the baiiks of the cailal. liere tlre tremen

caY fills, anld it is what is kiown as the San lraiiisco elb

and tle outrunsh i1f t Iis great body if Water (1wiistream voi 

ellv ly ve a very scrious:11 effect mid might liave a destroyiii

those bait ks.

Mr. I hiT TLE. Well, it thiey)- are built of stifficieiit 1ltickn

proper material rightly placed, you do inot think these bank

ilt or ()tI .)

(olonel LiI'i\v. A cday fill with suchi a bodv of wat

against jlood which 0(ll1oa. c4listrIlctel 1140ht Colonel Mr. Colonel A ir. P IPUlETE be 5m4w OoiLTTIL. Fuirtler11mr0 ill LUDLOW. Lt1)4ow. meitilts thatthat t they nvy ;tpjly a Qiite ; nl, Not There , itt would ym pretty whielbli 14 yoil easily; vell. wo1IlI this, were wmibt stand believe rapidly. sipposieg not no, some ?be yave sir. very these features the You comfortable stramdiii embaiikients thaIt rememlinber in for dam connection them. g of shoulthe the ms
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DO)LITTLE. Not easily; but I mean with professional 

Colonel LDLONW. They never would stand that kind of 

think the action of a powerful current against them on th

would be very destructive. Any engineer will tell you th

there would be no canal at all until you could build it agaifn, a

or five years traffic would cease until the (lam and banks were 

I noted that, because I thought possibly some members of the 

wanted information oil that subject, as it was an interesting 

regaid to the flood in the Sain Juan, we have two differing s

of that flood by the chief engineer, oil(e in one pa)iper and 

other, relating to the sane subject and same observations.

Mr. VANGER. Is there amiy serious difficulty except the e

facing_ the eimbankmlients from the cut?

Colonel LUinOw. The San Francisco embaiiiiients? It wo

bly be extremely desirable to cover them with a riprap of ro

tect then from the wash of the raiinfall.

Mr. NOONAN. The testimony here is that these clay bank

susceptible to rajinfalls, and that they stand there well.

Colonel LuDw. Yes; another misapprehension, you se

committee has that idea, I would like to correct it.

Mr. NOONAN. We would like to hear that, because the spec

ment was imde here that the marks are still visible made in 

etc., while at work there"!

Colonel LUDLOW. Precisely; the board makes that statem

put that in our report.

Mr. NOONAN. Then, what is the necessity for riprapping?

Colonel LUDLOW. For the simple reason that a cut iin 

material is a very different thing fromli piling up material 

bank. You g'et inl one case the earth naturally consolidated 

to make that cut, When you undertake to take that materi

olunp it and try to solidity it, there is where the trouble b

that is the serious problem relating to the building of thes

order to solidity them and make them hard, compact, and w

against these tremendous amounts of water.

.l1r. DOOLITTLE. That would be tanping and all that proc

you use?

(,'olonel LUDLOW. In my mind I do not know exactly how y

that, aind as we say in our report it is difficult. Ordinarily i

done by animals hauling rollers over it trying to solidify it i

Liyers. That is the way a reservoir bank is built, but in thi

possibly can not get your animals out on this bank. You have 

a vast quantity of clay which is mud when you wet it, and it 

have a chance to get dry, and you can not roll it over, and if 

put animals out oi it they could not get flr enough to pull 

alid you will find ill the report there we suggest it will prob

to ad fro. make of that should Mr. ('olonel Mr. Colonel clay be you San You dne it DOOLITTLE. DOOL1TTLE. try dams impervious use Francisco can LUDLOW. LUDLOW. by to the is do overhead not really smeso adopt in embankment, It Do to I It one power, is some watr do you iscable the ordinary of not exremely assume way. the mostimportant by if which assume, you this most and methods That the choose, you process? important serious it but land is would construction, of admitted I to inthings can doing should haul this useforbe tohin*) the theserollin it.solidifieby hope deosit you the constthe enunto c
P, NICARAGUA CANAL.

iieer liiniself tiat he reads it as the most diffictilt and 

woirk (oP1 014, wIOle route.

Al I. I )tT TIAT .ThaIt is the real key to a large part of the 

so Ia s the I ciial project is cuicerned. Ti-,hat was tihe strip 

Alr. 1li noCal had not passed Over yesterdayI

S'oloiel itDIAPW. Nes, sir; there was some portion of 

Tr 1Ii ce 'Ire too lilies there-tle canal Iiiie mid the embank

Th I lial g4OeS tilI P'h the b tomi of the basii. and you do n

tling oil the caal line bweCaise it is drowned out. Al r. Me

le regards that cimbanukmient line as the most dangerous 

whole)] work.

Alr. 1% 1 IL The most importmit pirt, does he not state'?

Coli mel Luiiw. Where does he speak of that?

,1Al'. NDuWOTT. Ile says that is the weakest part. You wi

tile riml t (d, 1890.

Mlr. I A rEl oN. TIht is innaterial.

AL .1% 'LLTT L. ( )f course it is. I merely referred to it in passing

.110 (10 hot ("Ire to take up time with it.

C(oloiiel LW . had thAt matter tboUt having pas

site of t 1t-'I'vima Iai and, I only wanted to say we lauded Su

1(N . Ve took that afleinlolm to ex8 lm1ine the site of the ( a

wl lv vicifiy )I' it on th:it side. There was not wuich to 

welit oil lip tile line of the crest and put in a most, difficult 

worklii, aidl the next Imorli ig we crossed the river and exa

other baijk. weuit (over every slope, examined the iilis whe

was to ld, and coiltilnlued aInd went oii up this Sall Carlos 

12 liil eS.

M 1'. 1o r01ITTLE. Where is the earth to come from to buil

Col(Nel Ll.DLOWT . It was proposed to take the greater p

Iizaps all of it-tlie canal pro ject ia tther indicates they shou

whole ainunt ol it, from the excavation of the east divide c

is a xery heavy ol y of chiy overlying the rock ail it is p

m1sc tiat. Thiete is not real]y, as a matter of flict, en1ou1gh c

dive to build Ihese embankmients.

,\r. 1o(,JTrii. iat there is plenty in the adjacent hills?

Colonel LADLOW. Yes; you would have to borrow firoin th

Al r. N o NAN. I understand you have seen the embankmen 

( olonel Lum1L ?W. No; I have never beeni there. I woul 

I ha'e y seell the dirawillgs and techiical aco111ts of tiei. 

soiiim b4OPks which I was able to have sent over rrom Londou 

milci' while We were examiiiing this thing. You will hind som

that suIb ject ill or report about these India weirs. The

mit crst etig strtcttires aid very peculiar. They have been built there

for a bomi time: some of them ire very aiicient. back buiit desigiateI N marty ioped final iraI&ua Coh Ali. ieahly i survey t) of hiwl :t I to liaid mect t I II'arrange these iN I think C'aiial ponts i AN. L4ow. and gOie the t I hiiigs, the int thait supposed matter whliich comilittee. a Is I necessity certaiii shold lilitAry the air II I was confusion that might should seiise have for to attache 'ley, was go further not been perhaps there to pairt between have however, theiie. see. very of is survey had have 1' an yotir gladprelimilltary the it only exphlimation and had mission. been to pleasure have gave all not in th

b
NICAPR AGUA CANAL. 

cated by Mr. Menocal in the middle of page 55, where lie st

really I did not know and had not in mind at all, becaus

look into the matter:

The final survey should be completed within eighteen months from th

conIcession.

That is all right; of course surveys had to be completed i

of being completed an(l prepared and siii icieiitly colherenit 

SUcI p''rpose. The mistake, of course, was retaining it as 

lisilngr it otlerwise.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you think in goinig over :hl1 these 

made by Senator Miller and Air. Alenlocal that they have eve

that no more surveys or investigations were necessary ill) 

work should be completed Are iiot these surveys g di g 

iously, always luriiig the performance of any great work o

or anylthiiig else?

Colonel LUDLOw. Not usually; no.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Are not eginhers constantly engaged o

making surveys?

Coloiiel LUI)LOw. After you build a railroad ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Whiile you are construeting a railroad o

(reat gito fineering1 work.

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, certainly. But it doeS ]lot follow t

iiot have to make an iivestigatioi tioro uihly at the start, 

cai go oni anl iild and survey concurrently. Soie portioln o

you can start to-morrow; the ifiii'fmatini is ample. There 

this work You call start ini 0-n lo-imorrow, if voiI desire so t

d

object of a survey is to determine what to do and what is 

that is all.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. To such an extent as would require the e

of a million of dollars or so?

Colonel LUDJOAw. That is very true. You can commence 

the San Juan Rliver to-morrow.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And the rock cut?

(Coloiel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; and dredging out on the like

Alr. JY. There vwas a questioit I wan ted to ask last n ight

you found the level of the Lake Nicara gua varied several fi

y

still admit the canal is a teasible project. I want to ask y

your opinion, that level of the lake could be maintained, o

or river between tle Ochoa Diam an(d the lake could be iniii 

a stable depth with the lake ciagin g in its level to the exte

cate it

Colonel LUDLOW. "You have got to control it.

Air. JOY. By what imeans and in what direction ? I ask f

iII torIationi.

Colonel LU'Lxw. Quite right, and it is a matter to which 

level gzave liam. thought liaps; the quaiitity. Mr. Mr. Colonel idea of days JOY. You J(Y. 1)iut the perhaps that LUmow. an1d our will lake. You I the read discussion, liiigits 1id say atlake Could that, it thishere If treated was d I time but that most had is not if a you it you difference at to difference careltI was diagram, con be please, woul allowed not siderahle con be asbe in ofI side overcome complete could 3 able theo feet, leng fall iato, report to explain 5 tlh below elucidate feet, as usi in to was our such ing posa or it c

t
191 NICARAGUA CANAL.

as to maintain the river above the Ochoa Darns ab 30 feet of 

given depth of water ?

( lonel LUDLOW. We think it call be done.

Mr. JOY. -But what means would you adopt to do it?

Colonel LUJI)NOW. The first thing to do would be to raise 

Diam and everything that applied to it to an elevation suffici

tain the lake surface at or above the datum you determine t

these circumstances, as the B'oard looks at the matter, dur

seasol, while the lake is wasting and the rains are not falling

suHFace will be practically horizontal in the lake, and all the 

the river to the (aul prActically horizontal ; and, in fact, the 

silered it might even l necessary in the dry season to mak

tion such as to 11okl the water to a higher level than the (l

or summit level, in order to allow for a possible f.ll. Then, h

that, the dititiculty comes in the rainy season when the lak

rise, and it is evident.unless you are going to drown out tha

allow the whole variation of the lake to accumulate on the 

summit level and till up there, y(u will have to make som

46r let ting it run off. So that, whereas in the dry season 

horizonita l. in the wet seasonIi you have to steepen that slop

to prevent the accumulation of water, and you 1ave to dis

surplus water out of the Like, and consequently have to hav

sl4)e to d( so. Therefore, it involves the necessity of' h

arr11 ngeilielit, some adjustment at the darn which can be w

to shut a id open, either slinices or movable weirs, so as t

water 111) by shutting the gates, and when the weirs are ope

flood go iit that w( 11ld otherwise drown (fnt the basin above

'11. 1 Jo. Is there aUIy cY nsiderable portion of the count

this poiiit-Oclioa Dail and tile lake-which at highi wate

Ocl a ila ani i l t of s11tfci ciit elevatioii would be continually overflowed

by Iie deepening of that river 1nd the backing ui the wate

'oloiel Lunmow. In the valley it is; it would be enorm

Ilowed. We iaise the water at Ochoa sixty odd feet. It is p

tha I dam to lb d that whole valley, and the Saii Cirlos Val

all the way aok t the Iake. You make a vast expanse of 

where the banks are lon. Of course, where the banks ar

y

only l (hod what the water reaches. It is the same way 

Carh s Valley. There are tw enty odd iiles that will be II 

do 4ot, Ihowever, want to drown any more land in there th

IhIelp1.

Now, I could multiply tile points tiat these people have 

but I will hiot imll pose oii the coiiiimittee. I am at the Chairm

Tile CHA IRMAN. I W'ish 'yOU would give us some informati

y( m olserived there of the renuainus of w(rk done b1 ythe com

01genera furt herance of' this enterprise, either at GieytowNIi o

t iii at in Were ae ow railroad The ( colonel reg)dll Gryvown;) the NI 'oloiel lhiund excavat lagoon 4'n1AumPuAN. shape l to LULtw. 11 LUDLoW. three-l6urths piersP, of iiig in or that I 12 m41omnds there. he excavations, What miles is. direction The We all of We running work of the didf0i4lid sand a 10m1n1 of con you mile done etc. destruction the thrown from finld the oif remains canal by remained canal Greytown the reainis up toward work by company o excavated the of was of rei to thlie dvedgc1s their a the (101v pier was h n ills. firmifoowoo at cothw
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

site of the locks. We found several dredges, and we fou

number of buildings-extensive milings-hospitals, hea

offices, and resident buildings belonging to the compaiiy an

them. I think that covers about all of the constiiction an

noticed. There were locomotives, etc., and quite a variety o

The CHAIR-MAN. What did you find iii regard to the cha

harbor?

Colonel Lu)Low. There is no chainel. The channel that 

by tle company when they were working there is completel

lIt could only be kept open by dredging.

The CHAIRMAN. Will that be the case for all time ? Wil

sible to secure by any engineering device a clhaniinel i hal wou

itself'?

Colonel LUDLOW. No, I regard that as out of the question

hardly the case anywhere, Afr. Chairman.

The CHAIRWMAN. WXhat is your idealk or 41(1 you niahe tan

of the "aniliIal dre g 'ill ig tlat would be 1ewess;a ry to preserve a eli :in iiel

commensurate with the uses of the canal?

Colonel LunLow. No, sir; we really did not go into Ili t inq

The CHAIRMAN. in your judgmieit, will that be a miitter 

erable cost?

(olonel LUDLow. There will be, I think, a consideralble cos

teniance there.

The ( 1 IIRAMAN. To what, distaice seaward will they have 

dredges i1 order to preserve a 28-foot or 30- ot, eail lilwc

Coloiiel Lumtow. They would have to 1,o at least that far

The CHAIRMAN. How far ?

Colonel LUDLOW. To the 28 and .30 foot depth. I do not 

fair that would be.

The C(iAIRMAN. But how far from the shove?

Colonel LuDLow. That would depend oni the i'apiditv witlh 

shore moved out. It was found on the east side of the pie

the company that the beach followed out-that the sm1i1il ae

against it on the east side followed very rapidly toward( the 

pier until when we were there the shore line was out fill v to 

the pier and the beach had swept oi by and made a dry i bar o

side, the entrance being at some little olistanlce I'r)mlI thie pie

The CHAIRMAN. What MaChillery did you fin)d there 2

Colonel LUDLOW. We found three 01' four '- ges wihi were the

most prominent objects. There were machie shops and i lo 

scows, and so on, oin the bank; quite an aceumilation of m

various kinds-three or four locomotives and sheds. The 

there.

The CHAIRMAN. What was its condition?

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, its condition was--the woodwork 

gone, and the piles had been badly eaten by the tereilo and 

was concrete canal, retained you mercial The Colonel The Colonel muchestimate or CHAIRMAN. CHAIRMAN. value- at inside would LUDLOW. LUDLOW. decayed; the the place it prsent have Would Suppose but It Well, proposed would, to some value be anyin that replaced? a was provided by of of case entraice it theat in be like pretty company. work of the that, value was entrance fair ? of conditions, now retaineil, course in to compthe it whahh
200 )UNICARAGUA CANAL.

The CHAIRIMAN. ERut as part of the completed constrctio

Colonel LUDLOW. It has 1o commercial value in such a c

value (f a work like this is its usefulness. In one way I sho

value of that work is exactly the price it would cost to pu

inl tlre to) do the same work.

Tie (,HMAIRAN. That is what I meant to be understood"?

4 oloiel LUDLow. That is what I think. I think the pr

of t hat w(ork is .1bout what it woNld cost to suibstitut e sole

W41e iiot tliere.

The CIHAIRIMAN. The line of this questioniii and the pur

this: N want ti find out wliat there is of value there now

value as a pmrt of this great enterprise?

olone1 I t)w. The vallie of thie jetty depends en

vihethler yo pr)pwse to keep the entrance there or not.

The CiiAlIMAN. Sppl)0Se you ldid?

Colonel LuALow. Then tile jetty is worth what it Would 

something there to take the phIce of it.

The (4 'JIA IIAN. Wiait would that cost?

(1hloiiel liAH)ow. There is 900 feet of it, I think.

TIhl(, ( 'IAIRIIAN. Jst app)roximiate it.

Colo]e Lum)(mw. We estimate to put ill a jetty-I gene

speaik by I lie book, if I canl find it-we estimated to pit inI n 

pile jetty for t(iim IIrry purposes of securiillo all citranmce. 

mIalted at :iboiut, I -think, k40 a foot. The board, howeve

belieN c we oimgit to eldeavor to maike all eiltrance tlere.

r. 1 L ITTLE. This is only a temporary pier, and(l does n

the rock work, which is of course the most important of a

colect ion with tihe jetty.

(ohniel LUmmOw. That does not include final rock work

rock ill it.

Mr. Jov. TIat would be -63,000.

Th10 ('11 A I I')] AN. W118t are these dredges wort ?

4 oloneI LU up )W. I do not know. I (10 not think thley 

81an thingi. Ile woodwork is worth nothiiiing; what the m

worth, what coalition it is ill I do not ktow, but it is badly 

worn oat, mill is of ml ancient type anyway. I do niot thi

pat\ to try to iise those dredges except for tempoary purIp

The (1A I AN. \Wiat do you estimate the present vaIie 

rl;ld n111d its rolling1 stock?

CO4oel hanu'u r( w. Well, the I rolling stock I should not c arge up as

WOrthli iyhin. I do not know what is the conlditiom 

iiotives. THwy were nllider ile sheds, bmt the 4lim'inle is ver

irwrk :)I and1l tIhey are riisted ilp. I wol1111 filP t Nheo whol

rolligi st 'k aid dredges, and let soijebody t:ke it for s

roadhed is there aod llas a definite value 1and is worth wh

pract ia ly. bl)r where t1h.11 4'olo The Colonel Thie Mr. Colonel I'lle thw ]]:as EiniPCOTT. it ('1AIRI CHATI1MAN. CHAIRMAN. l -Ihll)(, is. 1ell LTIDL4 IA LUDLOw. of I Iliade A it N. )w. \w wlihich It Put What HOW in That To cost 4 )h, the if make was 1Much yes; them is you is canal the its ta thal change you ken 180,000 woild value value proper? los same out.provided the of itatny excavation? the Cost, harbor, 11 use buildings cents to you of that mke the a rtain yard. pier. woul

I the doth
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLow. I do not know, sir. We found the bu

very fair condition; they are in good conlitioii indeed consid

time they have been there and the lack of care they had.

The ChAI IU\AN. Can you give the value approximately?

Colonel LUDLoW. I (To not know really what the building

linderstlan, however, they cost a great deal. be(al(se they c

Ch Iicago and had to be shipped and put ip again, and so on. 

there is nothing in the country to do anything wit, 111d n I pr(esu

cost was soilethinig friglitfiul.

Thle CIAl WIAN. What would be a fair estimate of the ct ost 

a

imulating the eiigiiieering data that you regard is of value ?

Colonel LUDLoW. Well, we estimated the cost of getting 

imi peratively needed at -350,000.

The CHAARIAN. What I want to find out is, what would 

estiiate of the cost of that which they had accuinulated, t

present valte?

('olonel LUDLOW. Well, you see, all the information they h

nunlated is of value. I do not know what their ex)etlISs wr; 

000 or "."00,000, but I do not know; but I shtuldl say it 

TI Iey eI t Ih r good deal and had a good any ies ut. At one

tinmi they had as s cight salIl parties, I think, out. 

those siirveys ought to be worth what it cost to get themt.

Tilt, CHAIRhMAN. Nhat portion of the cai tal has been clear

ber?

Colonel LUDLow. Of the wood? Why, a large part of it 

I do not think it has been cleared from Greytown to the Io

the ca nal route.

Mr. ENI(CoTT. Not in there by Lock No. 1.

Colonl LU cow. I do not think that pa rt hi as been C411(elile

is no use clearing ill there, as it is swamp. A picket Iras bee

quite wi le and comparatively clear throdigh the east div id c

is comparatively cleared through the San Frailci'sco district, 

sa rily over the caual litie, because much of thit rUs iln the 

which will be d roiiwed o(it accordiiig to the project. There i

cit out on the crest line, so we could follow it. Well, that is 

as far as Ochoa. Over on the San Carlos ridge there is a pjc

partly cut out. Oi the west side the clea rintig there 11haS Im

extensive, quite broad, several hundred feet or more, and froim

seaward until you get to the divide

Mr. ENDICoTT. There is pietically no t imber in there.

Colonel LUTDLOw. There is ino stain(ling timiiber inl that reg

heavy tropical timber it is too dry in the suimier.

The CHAIRMAN, Is that portion reachint g froim Greytown to 

subierged ?

(olo1e1 LUDToW. It is swamp aid of tropical growth.

The (1'HAIRMAN. Did you traverse tiat ?

times. soiethlingo' swamp, tion can for structed Coloitel The Colonel Mr. five look is. DOOLITTLE. CHAIRMAN. years. and Yol IThere at LjUDLow. LUDLOW. of itnaturally can forthe is five kind, noot All Will Yes; \We use minutes you gof iid could not of through that go that there wading up that and not. work will by 7s know drainthat railroad be will Wethrough no wet object swamiip as be weitt tha excavation, much and submerged a swamp over in lake see except as gingiio the what if or when you dredgiexcavswamrailroby over the loa o
2 2 NICARAGUA CANAL.

0oliel LmLOW. Oh, yes; it will assist materially in d

cour-e yoii call not get it dry with the rainfallbut it will hel

Mr. i o LITTLE. The railroad is built through the same 

land, is it inot,?

'olomnl LUDLOW. No; it gets a little difficult as you 

alwinu,-the part down here is sand and a little clay, and a

1 li alon you lose the sand.

Alr. 1) M LTTLE. I mean the railroad as built there is if) 

( colonel LUDLow. So fir as anybody knows, it is just 

lmlixtilre of saud, mud, and clay.

Al r. N ) ( AN. I u1derstood Mr. MeiIocal to say when yo

yoU designiated mother point of entrance to the harbor?

'oh a tel Lu1tow. Yes, sir.

Mr. NOWNAN. Why were you impelled to do that?

Coloiwl Lvn(ow. \We treated at some length the reason

our iepurt. Ve believed there was certainly danger of st

a lhqpeiess fight to make all entrance there because it is 

west be'acli. Tlhe sand accumuilates there from both direc

Ar. N LAN. Well, the tilling you speak of; will you a

lhavinug tile new place ?

(olonIel LUnLUW. You will not avoid all the finghi, b

have it iii a red aced quantity. You get better condition

iore, oi g a little farther down ami running at right a

bewli you get S fathiomis of water, which on this route i

2,000 feet fron shore, aw( we believe at less trouble of m

That is the real reason Of cl angling the position 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Which is the direction of the drift g

('1olnel LUni ow. There is no current.

All'. D)O pLITTLE. Well, I mean by the sea?

C(olonael Lu iPLOW. Tle actioni of the wind on the beach?

All. IomLE. [ean the current there.

Colonel Lunc w. It has Ito current.

Alr. DoOLITTLE. Is not there a current settigio in from t

dow ii t1ere!I Do not the winds preva il froim t hat directioi

C MIcl LU LOW. The winds blow from about east to no

lli. DOOLITTLE. The sand then drifts about that point 

Co)el LUDLOW. We have not a map here on which I 

you. This lanre affaiir is iiot a map, but a diagram inten

triate the genera l features of the project; but perhaps I 

thing N with it. Nelar that projecting point of laud called I

there is a nearly open sea, and when the waves come in 

aigle 4& 45 dekees on tie beach it runs a little southw

Ipint toward the tow i. Tlen the leach takes a turn 

this way Iilluistratin g-I and curves up well from there aid 

like this, anld tlere is allot lier cape called Monkey Point, w

(1114' iiito upon a trade action caal our Ile l(1 Air. Colonel north report. .1re the sea the winds, 1)4 111)on 1 I enitircy Ii hwii4 nIil is beach LUDLOW. of you TrT perpetually tie (4 Greytowun, strikiiig re; beall u. IchII, satisfied that al sy, 14w The reeeling, S whIIichi fiunel, the fat (4ming hIo1s making Ia that present shore r of ( water? Nl arres the which you al in a at sand mouth? bay. is there, coming this go aii due froin largely was angle lIt We al, again I the to iovingo sand will found the of uider proposed wave 45 mid have in action. reasonin degreehere thagaibott 
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would just ask you first if you ran lines 

made soundings in order to ascertain?

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, yes; we made a beautiful map of t

thing. That is to say, the officers of the Montqomery did th

graphic or offshore part, while we did the shore part, and so w

handsome map of it. We say, on page 37 of our report:

But it seems safe to conclude that the endeavor to construct a harbor en

the canal imnmediately adjacent to the head of the highrlit, where the iaxin

action from both directions must take place, will involve en a-in-g at nic

pettial contest with forces of great power and persistence at the point ot a 

of their resultant efforts. On the prolongation ol the comany s piers the 

curve is over 1,500 feet distant from the shore, the 7-fathom curve 4,010 fe

8-fathom curve about 8,000 feet.

Mr. D) )LITTLE. About 8,000 feet seaward?

Colonel LUDLOW. On the line of the pier.

Mr. DooLITTLE. That is no longer than the pier at the mou

Columbia River?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is no extravagant length, but if you 

it less length1-

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But a pier built out there would have t

effect as it had at the mouth of the Columbia?

Colonel LILn ow. It might-no.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Why would it not have? Tliere is no cu

there; there is no flow of water there. It is on the broad Pac

the jetty is built to resist the encroachment of the sand wash

and drifted by the sea.

Colonel LUDLOW. And also incidentally to control and g

current of the Columbia River.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That goes to sea; stretches clear to the no

30 miles.

Colonel LuDLOw. Do you remember before the Columbia j

built 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir; I have been there many a time wh

was not 16 feet of water there.

Colonel LUDLOW. There were three channels. Now there is 

and the plirp)ose of that jetty was to hold the river just where 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The purpose of the jetty, as I understand 

neers engtag'ed in the work and who were with me when I we

the end of the jetty, was to resist the encroachimient of the sea 

from the southward aid the force of winds and currents.

Colonel LUDLOw. And did it very successfully.

Mr. I)o( )LITTLE. And they have 32 feet of water.

Co0)el LuDLow. They have the advantage there of a tre

river to work with, with an enormous flood and of great vo

they had not had that they would have had to light its tre

forceM1r. )oOLITTLE. But the effect of that pier would be to a

sand guie it towN, built Colonel Colonel is Colonel Mr. Mr. concentrated. drifts? out the I)OOLITTLE. l) and OLITTLE. seaward river, LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LULOw. I say so they far that At But Assuredly. Yes; enough. -No; arrest Gytown? instead I arrestm at the the speaking of mouth the washing spreading snd of about thef drifting out the Columbia. building and sand from wanderiwhen pirs the 
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And the channel could be made perm

Co(oniel LUDLOW. Yes; it can be.

Mr. NOONAN. Would you have any objection to stating 

supplement what you have stated in regard to that openi

('oloiel LUDLOW. How is that?

31x. NOONAN. In regard to this entrance to the harbor 

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, ill connection with that I wil

from tile estimates; I have no other means of doiniig it.

.ir. iNOONAN. I do not believe you can (1 it in a curs

1 hat is why I asked you to put it supplementary ill writin

Colonel LUDLOW. It would be very difficult. We estim

cost (f the G reytown Harbor, making a provisional estima

1)t I, wareiou se, machine shops, wharves, railroad trestle

do not want tiat estimate at all?

Mr. NOONAN. Oh, no; simply an estimate of the feasi

ing that cliaminel there adequate for the puiposes indicat

pr(pse to put it.

Cn iiel LUDLOW. Very good ; that involves the construc

poary pile pier in order to secure an entrance, and then 

ers, piers atrock, which is ill addition to the rock in the temp(miry p

ent lm ice to c'allal, dredging, stone pitchiing, channel bank

000, 000 all told, including the dredguing of the harbor

ilt4r1ior ] 18hror dredging is included inl that. The tens 

ratei here 

~ ~ ~ as 

in 

~ t lie 

~ ~~- estimate for the dred'ing. The hiarbor 

Nvm~e -peiiar.siae

s 'w 1(1 8 preliminary estimi ate, would be about ,,- 90

rn1un1d numbers a million of dollars.

Threupon the committee adjourned to meet at 2 p. mi. 

April :)() 1894.

CoMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN Co-m7

lioUSE OF REPRESENT

MJ

The committee met at 10.30 a. iim., 1 Ion. William P. He

chair.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW-C con

The ( HAIRMAN. Colon1'l Lidlow will proceed with his 

(' fb L4'] 14' I) I,(W. Mi. ])()olittle sta ted that Ile wold 

que(stIioll of estillates, etc., to day amd ask some lquestioli

neeIOll. (,)I' course, this is a difficult and complicated 

cln lInd14ersta'1141 that it is especially diilicilt to 1,irm ln 

imite upn a matter ceoncriihig whicli we have not comple

Nobl.' o oI*m1 )(ard, was Very mititch eng18aged ii illimportaiit 

that a1r1r1:11,04 tionis introductimn some against read little Nork, 'Nir. Endicott, two trouble question we that hilt him, short ihve. t() you e of relin 1 to w s All. WNuld co were desire Ar. S ascertain All'. glOi N()bb, Davis's ()ver asked be iNoble, niincations to eouhli glad, .1n4 ask, what tt) which nanie to day altlmlnighl with Imyself-wentf iinasiitich cOmie theouching might in OVer B-ey tile facts my iesterdlay permission -itndicate as testiioly this were very over I u and matter. was poceed in we great theere of three- that riespouthe tihie data otI wrein\\c
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

your permission I will therefore read these pa pers, and leave 

a part of the record. The first is from the Engiiieering News o

22, 1891, as follows:

Mr. Frank P. Davis, now t he chief assistant of Enuginver Menocal, of the 

Canal Cistruetioi Company, stationed at Greytowl, N ica agIi, hms been 

cut of so unusual a iiiark of recognition for services reniered as an en gineli

give the resolution of the company y in full, and emoratiilate Mr. )avis o

fortuilie and the ofiieers of tie Canadian Paciiic R'ailwa v on their frau k ali

indebtedness to their engineer for oo work dme _ight years ag-o. The 

reads as follows:

"At a iimeetidg of the board tf directors of the Canadian Pavitie Railway 

held at the principal ofliecs ot the comipanv ill Mouitreal, on Monday, the 

.June, 1891, the presidbn t referred to the cspoiecially vatiale ser ices of 'Ir. 

Davis, who as engineer on the I ocky Mollitainl section of the lie, o.(inler M

RE ogers, prevelinted a, most serious mistake in the beation (of the riiway ill 

Kicking, horse Canyon, aud saved tile ciimpaily a large aiiolnit of money i

nal construction, as well as ill its subseiet operation, aiid stated that 

facts came to the kinowledge of the exec iiive otticers they felt that Mr. )a 

ices should be fittilyo rcot lized, aid thl:it Mr. Datv is bad left t he coutilt

place of residence was not kiiowni until within a few weeks.

"The president recouiiieilded Ihat a check for a suitable anion ut be s

Davis, with a resoltim 1 expiressiing the apI'prli;itin of tle board; whernlip

"R'so Ird, 'hat the rcoIIIIIeI1(:atiilm of t lie president he concurred in, a 

be authorized to forward to Mr. Frank P. Davis a check fir : V1,00) tolitler 

copy of this resiition, as an acknowledg ent of the valuable services re

him to this company.

"Attest:

"C. WVAINWRIGHT, t!5

The second paper is from the office of the Engijecr Comnis

the District, and is silgvied by the comiputin Iig eii gineer a1d sueri ultcIdent of sewers of the samte service. This caine to me w itli the Im

and approval of the Engineer Commissioner, Major Powell. 

follows:

OFFICE Oil THE ENGINEER COMMISSIONER,

DisTuRICT oF COLu'\

If ashington, April 

DEAR SIR : In answer to y(Iir inquirv concerning the record of Mr. Frank 

While connected wii h the eng&m1iietir d(ep:Irtileilt of the District giv ernitlen

the following". st Ilement:

ife was appointed assistant entgineer Ntiveier 1, 1581. in I)eceele 

was grantedl leave of absence, without pay, and venit 11 Nicaragua on somi

nary surveys. Auinost 1, ISN, lie resumied his position as assistant ein'

retained it I It Iil NIny 31. 18!9, Whben, hvinI2, beeI eal gIed on the NitarIg

Construction, his cOilnection with this deia:ruiumenit was severed.

Durigil the tiie he was engaged here lie proved iimiseif a capiab> 111

engineer. His wvork was under mly supervision. aiid I a lorelore able 

with con filence as to its chlracter. It was iin all respects acceptable, and 

him as a thorouglily conscientious and honest nan, whose statements on a

with which be is f-iniliar I would accept as truth.

Very respectfully,

GEo. H. BAIL

Computing Engineer, Engineer Department, IMistrict oj C

I indorse the above statement. appeared inf Col. Mr. Colonel Mr. it possession was WILLIAM DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. Curps written before LUDLOW. of of LUDLOW, Eniners, this thein Where Did 1891? paper committee I had U. you S. from did not. A. have this the the paper lst Canadian those time? come papers Pacific from,D. with supeorilin E. and Rlailway Mc( you how 0M, te w

ll CC
206 NICARAGUA CANAL.

COdone] LUno w. From the samite source from which I 

o4thei1 p 'p1r. It is a piar t 4)f the recrd ill the District, otlice. It caie

ti me irnii iIr. Bailey with a note from Major Powell, Ewgineer ComIm Ii s. i one r.

Mr. DI)OLITTE. Mr. Chirman iand gentlemen of the 

desire here to say that I wish to proceed :i1d ask Colonel 

() tq iute'stiolls-tie gentlemi aito Ias last iide a stateme

C(otlnllittee-relative 10 the estimates a1141 quantities ill thi

I 11ve a line of questions which I think he will have no 

c is these jiestios, Mil wei'ig, will 4aii if Coloiel Ludlow, -le I 

be kind enough to coHmine himself to aniswers to the que

4(1peditA tle matter vN'iy miucli, al(l I shall ill every in

them as briet as possible.

The CAii A1H1iAN. Tliose questions are in the nature 

exmlill'ifatioll

,Ai-. Vo~rTI es, 01r inquiry.

The CikmAl iAN. Tiety will 11t be pertiiie it, I ider

colonell Ludlow liniishles his stateieiit ?

ir. I )LiTLE. Certailily; I do In t desire to proceed 

gIottc'I thlrl-uhl witi his remiarks.

Thie CDAu LN. Io I lunderstanid that youi have (cO

stateiienit, o1l el Ludlow

Cool iel IUL W. Not eniitirely. perhaps. Tiere are ()1n

ters I would like to bring before the coniittee. although

am quite -lt the disposali of the coniiiittee, and I woul

aiiswer oIiuestiolis whieniever 111llbers 4)f the coliiittc4 

theimi. I was advised last time by Alr. Doolittle that estim

lter mII 'bm)l which questions would bie asked. Tlhrc i

poi n ts I \vmld like to c04ver, because the effect is rathe

(o), in partieiir is this question of suimmtiit level. This 

which has given ih board great Coicern. We assumed 

thlr-mi-h t lat there was a fixed summit level to be limilta

must a thu it to hi ave been verv much surprised by the stat

Meiocal that it was not expeted to intitain a iixed suim

thItat sicli level was expected to vary with tile rise an(d fiai

above or below the 1,11) feet, aeordillfv to the osvillattio

Titat we rega ;irdd as a very extramrdin(ry prnIpsitio. ;111(1 we were

uil ite 41iscmiceerted to filid tlhat the view we iuad hel oi itis 

in erior. I Xw a ut to re1d. Ilerely ill justification of our vi

tim1ny giVC1 bv Mr. Mtinocl. embodied ill Seiator Slierim

DIcemewr 2, 1 12. It cOnitains a Large am11oun t of very inte

mnatioi. )i page 174 1 find the followiing testimony:

Q. Hov 11ch is thw r'is and fafl of Lake Nicarag a, in its presen

tioll, fronit extreme 1i1.h water to extreme low water

what Onl4-lalf pr(Ised we water Q. 0. Mr. Thit 'rm1 have flow >o !-A. the \IenoctIal 2 that was ieet. to mui1ch always to vaniat Yes; that i the retain feet. will bit answers: will similmit nios uniderstood. that Wo 110 tlhe earrv igihvt propose fect swell level level. it is be: up it not 4& to above to the retain aboveTihehre a height lake its aniswelr thee lowest ire at hilevel of ghest I10. 2 some or is niturial of 3 water the hdistinictlv feet That more lake conditioabove mark is, at quof 11itb
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Then he was asked whether the lake would rise enough to k

or overflow shores that are flow never covered. His answer w

No, sir; I would not say never, for sometimes the water reaches an elevat

112 feet.

( courses, if the summit level is to be maintained at 110 feet 

lake shall not fall below that, whatever rise takes place it the 

be alove that 110-fot level. We nade an effort to ascerta

that might be, but we could not do it. We tried to figure out 

the lake could be controlled, so as not to Inave a rise ab1ve 3 

we approximately calculated that that wmuld involve a disc

times very imtuch larger than at any time has been attributed to 

Juan from the la ke.

I wanted to read this, because it is a part of the record and it 

mn a tioi upon which we acted.

Now, there is another point, Mr. Chairman, if you please.

Mr. Mlenocal. iii his ('1hica-o paiper, preparled for the Worl~ds 

bian Water Coilmm!erce Con gress, 1S9"3, addressed specificAlly 

eii gilieer world, at the bottmi of page 33, makes the followini

ment with reference to the construction of locks. lie say

prl)perly:

The matter of safey is of first consideration, but with thw exercise of p

and engineering skill the plans proposed can be successfily carr'ie uhf 

proposed plan ifor a loek canal at Panama, lifts of d)i feet, with a possible 

of 11; feet at high water, were adopted by the Commission; but we can not 

ship-canal lock in acloal operate ion with lifts app1roachinl Ilhese i'uris

working" oat the problem, the mechanieal details, Athowdi nceissrily of 

portionls, lhavi not so far deve oped l any inusurmnouni ta1cble diftlil ties, eithe

struction or manipulat ion aft erwavds. The body of the locks is to be of 

with cut stones in the miter sills, the hollow quoins and such angles as ne

tion from shocks.

That is a specific and clear statement, and naturally we exp

find that verified in the data. When we came to investigate 

disappointed in not finding it verified. We could not find th

was any cut stone in the lock construction at all-notliniig but c

not any other mitaterial. That, of course, is one of the grave

tions we have to the company's plan. Furthermore, when we a

f

the lock drawings at the company's office we found that practica

had none. The construction of these locks is very important a

cult, and they have unexampled dimensions in the way of lift.

MIr. DOOLITTLE. What is the lift, taking them up in their o

Colonel LILow. As proposed by the company?

Mr. DoOLiTTLE. Yes, sir; in approaching the divide from 

town.

Colonel LUDLow. The lift is varied a little. It was, if I rem

30, 31, and 45 feet. The extreme lift, as proIo)sed in the r

1890, was 45 feet for Lock No. 3. A lock of half that lift has y

built. pany clculations copy little unit concrete other company, What I might price exhibiting was cross plans I supposed want but prepared say attached sections, or for it that data tohese was pper]. submit to there on to to roughly laid be locks the furnish it, contained was is By aside an subject were the examining an made, us, the fact andunfinished based, so upon in total andthat we far the is were it which as from the figured the lock you wedrawing only assured paper these could will their are out. data see computed, of in computatiascertain. the that they the which Therequanoffiarit 
NICARAAUA CANAL.

U>ed ill tie prep11ration of the esti iiates. The veilication 

Inenit I hAt the company had ]Io other data or plans up

base 1 their estiim't es is the feet that the total estimates f

man :, in the report ot l8t0, are precisely the same as 

here givelt on this sheet.

Al r. 1 1)LITTLE. The total of tile locks is the same?

Colonel LAU1)L( W. Yes; precisely as here stated.

Nv, with regard to t lie coistritction of the ()eh)a 1)

aliot her point the bal'rd l1ad the Itmiost difliculty in eIl

getf to the m11erits of. I assure you one of, tile greaIest d

ii w xas to ascertlaini what the real facts were aid reci nic

en t si ateiieits uade at different times with wNhat we lmin

lnily s owl! records showed.

Tlis is a blIie plint of the oiily drawilig. which .ave is 

to the coltditioli od thing's at the OclIoa )lDau. It is admi

drawinig Is obsolete, il the else that the proposed metlhod 

tiou here was ab ia ind(ied. The conil mny, at that hime, w

a. trestle w'ork acnmss the river from which thie stone shotl 

Later this plan was advanitageously replaced by tile p

eidd cabl s cross sispi tile -river, whlich, of oIl-rse, wa s vastly better.

T1haiit philop Sitiou vas lever worked( out, mnd the mily thil

look at was the cross section of the (ia111, ad the only tiiiwh

gIve 11S >uulie kind of ;Ill idea (is to how they were to bui

drawinig o which this is the lue print. One of the pecu

of this blue print is that iindrii ngii&1' the site of the dam. an

entirely across tile iver and up the baniks, is showvi a l

roek, and the cminpiny's deel a ratio ill referelice to thIat-t

of Mir. Mleiiocal is on record-ithat iunderlying the site the 

"gravel, cday. a rock," iii tlhe order iiaimed. Now, I Cal 

y u that ooingsf the conIpaiy themselves show that t

the oily aitilority fo r such a statementAlr. I o 'LiTITLE. W\hat is the date of tliat p ro Ii Ic

Colonel LUxlo)w. This aitedates the boriigs, made be

in s were lade, wlI euu t hI ere was no special in fori n 1ioii oi

Mr. 11)oOL ITT LI. Whiiich p rofIle y01u say is 110W obsolete 

Colo el LumLow. Yes.

Mr. ) (LlTTLE. The overhead cable was develop ped, xvwa

the t ime you have spoken of, when a trestle was to be bui

river

(ohoiel LU iw. I h i 't remember about the tile of 

imeuit of that overlieal cable.

AIr. I )ooLITTLE. T'at is a comp11 atively recent system

Colonel LUiiow. Yes; I think it has been develojied 

years. I forget how tar back hue Lidgerxvoods have work

vaibpes. done. circullstanlice have on g(aVe with sisten Mr. (Colonel Mr. hand met theus preferred t N doLrTLE. right It more hod where air HI.H.ighit was Li of i through] lhlt trolible ill LOW. lhis a uneertaiuty-too to tle comilectioli work iave Do least. endeavor It m. last vith you of is tell somi an this smiiiiier, consider If the years. with excellent it to concrete kind com is reconcile mniteh tills done, more pa it ia~s any's iconsistenit project. met vrsatility statement been 'xiity. tha other hod. discrepaiit carried vill diata. Ithianl We be to about which investe

have on? are the almdatitnow
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. Not the least ill the world. Still, I say 

never been able to understand the indication of that ledge of 

Mr. D1oLITTLE. YOU say that it is obsolete tid does not a

the present plans for the construction of the daih, does it.'

Colonel LuILOw. The statement exists in print yet.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I suppose the entire history of the hum

exists.

The CHAIR3AN. The importance of that is the fact that i

assertion of a rock tfouII1lation.

Colonel LUDLOW. It is the declaratioll to the eVe of a rock 

tion which does not exist, and for which at the time it was nita

was no authority at all. Subsetjuent to the nmkiiig of tha

boringrs were nimde, which, so far as they were made, dis p

entirely. Buit that didi't prevent the statement being mad

official paper of 1P)3, that clay, gravel, and rock werv foUnid the

order named. That statfenenit was distinctly made as late 

Those "itadvertencies " therefore become serious.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. From tile great mass of data g'athered froim 

time. and which the cmitipany had at their dtice ini New York, 

nlot be strange, wouhi it, that data that had been demntoistrat

irregpunirly constituted ()r iiot absolutely reliable 8houild creep 

be published with the maiass of publication?

('olliel LUDLOW. It seems to have 1een done.

-Mr. DOOLITTLE. Doll't you think this would be the nat i

probable thing'

Colonel LUDLOW. From Oe point of vieW. I41t, iii iderst

publications I am11 ] otiig are not wh It iioligt be called pop

commercial publicationis, but specific and technical statemilent

chief enig'ineer of the comtpit y.

lMr. DOOLITTLE. F1or instance, I know of iny owa knowledg

the newspapers statemelits are made based on and relating to 

and plans, published as carrying out the present ideas of I he c 

being totally at variance with the company's plans at I is t im

Colonel LUDLOW. YeS, no doubt. I q uote roiil lge 27 of 

ocal's formal paper prepared for the Columbiant Water Coimne

gress. This is under the head of excavation, etc.:

At the site of the Ochoa Dam( gravel, clay, and rock, in the order n

shown by the borings.

And the date of this paper is 1893.

I assure you, geiitlemen, that this task of mine is not an a

OHO. But there was no recourse but to do what w\i lmd to do 

it out to the finish. I do not know that there is aythiig els

moment, r There l. is so muCh of it-all this testimiotty we h

bristles with points that could be picked up, move or less, and 

ities shown. This question of hydraulic data, which is one of 

serious pally's project, points of criticism that the Board has had to find with company of showiiig on regard asn paper, These rainfalls, well the eng-ineering face N which to as forces high-water s c-14 it not records of is of forms the if almost are is the standpoint-had the one earth, peraps there rise 'at marks, importance portion entirely which andis without anl more etc. fall I apparent of lacking, should of formidable his of been any it-its streams, testimony, exception, perha lull(lerstood. when absolute absolute here ps it of' could referadmits the than lack and( vital volume have to M1r. the of atthe bijellyany hydrai'I necesinforbeen enodeof otj
210 NICARAGUA CANAL,

the hydraulic data, but seriously contends that, after all, the 

of it wouIld beof no practical value, for the reason that it takes 

periods f years to get iaximaan d inimlaresults; that even a

years oI i IIvestigatioII the plienometna of the twenty-first year w

upset all averages; for which reason, apparently, it has been 

not to get any information at all-because at the twenty-firs

lirst or forty-first year all your labor would have been done 

account of soie extraordinary condition of things. We co

know, that this is an absolutely unsound view-that it i

ineeri1g.

Ftirtliermiore, Mr. Menoval condemins the Nicaragua Cana

insisting upon the necessity for certain surveys. We have s

wanted them. We want the hydraulic data, we want a su

San Juan IRiver andi we want a lot of things which we co

fron the company, and upon which we could get no inform

wanted the reg-imen of the lake, and wanted to investigate th

of the river, and so oil, a computation of the rainfalls, par

the San Francisco Basin, and in all that proposed construc

the wAork is of' great mnagllitude and where the tremendous 

a imatter of serious consideration. We wanted all that. M

declared at one point in his testimony that all this would 

waste of time. At other points in his testimony it appears 

time operations were sluspendled down there the company ha

proposed ain entire, clear, thorong'h survey of the San Juan 

Ochoa to the lake, which they had kept in view, and whic

only delerired in view of whOat was more important; and the 

of their labors down there fonmd the work undone.

Mr. DOOLIrTTLE. The substance of Mr. Menocal's statemen

to tile rise and fill of the lakes was this, was it not, that 

construction of 1his canal all of these matters could be a

as well as the dc :i ls, in a great work of this character; tha

Was neC(sly to be (one iiglit then be performed in the c

of the work, and making the surveys after the matter was 

eani'lest.

Colonel LuITuIw. You would not even build a stable tha

woUhli not bilil a house that way.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. isift that the substance of Mr. Meno

Colonel LUDLOw. Yes, sir, I think so; I quite agree with 

is the most extralrdinary substance I know Of in connection 

neering matters-that the enga'inecing work is to be don

constmt-ion has been commenced.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You stated the other day that after th

been comnenced many matters could be ascertained a

arranged, and all that sort of thing.

Colonel Lu DLW. Yes, but look at this, Mr. Doolittle. Se

hitely miniation mit would Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. level vital DOOL1TTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. keep ofis LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. this insured what the is-for lake that Again, by Isn't If No; The He up ask the should a the tosays damN chief that I you. regulation building say 110right not. be, were trueU nlot, feet? engineer there. you too. built of of must the this says TheI sufficiently agree dam summit have not. maintenance at with these Ochoa. level, himgh hydranon oa
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LU[DrTOW. You can do it.

Mr. I)ooLtTTwrL. Now, theil, if the flow of water is so grr

increase that height of the level somewhat, that excess of wate

carried off by the weirs, is it not? Isn't that the plan ?

Colonel LUDLOW. I supp)ose;c so.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. As rapidly as it descends?

Colonel LUDLOW. No, you can not do it as ra pidly, because th

be a slope in the river in order to discharge the lake.

Mr. DoOLITTLE. Certainly, and the rise iI the lake would iiia

Colonel LUTDLOW. T he lake piles up and makes its fill. 

height is that lake going?

Mr. DoOLITTLE. Suppose it is 110 and then goes to 117.

Colonel LUDLOW. Seven feet higher?

Mr. I)OOLITTLE. Yes, sir, or 112 or 113. Then it is dischar

the lake falls back to 110.

Cub nel LUDLOW. ()i those subjects our information is almost 

lacking. The only authentic information we have on this subjec

we obtained ourselves.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I have not been there and I am. not an e

but that would be the result, it seems to me.

Colonel LULTOW. The range of that lake always seems to h

assumed by tho company. It is variously stated at 3, 5, and 

and rccentiy, sinco the publication of our report, it has been I

10 foet, for the first time, in the canal literature. We f1und e

and lad rm soin ti, believe, thiat the lake varies front maximum 

nium through a range of 14 feet-certainly 12 feet.

Mr. A OuLITTLE. That was taking' into consideration the eva

and all that.

C(loniel LUDLow. No; waternarks.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I say it necessarily embraced that.

Coloiel LImE'LOW. It iiulided all the physics, certainly. W

the question If we fix Ith' summnuit level at 110 feet, how mui i

lake go' ng It) rise abt vv that? If y u can not regulate it with

you are g ing to subuiierge an enormous amount of valuable ha

engineer has to Lwok into those things. The city of Granada 

invaded.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Cuntingencies of that kind are embraced 

the concessions, are th ey not?

Colonel LUDLow. 011, no; there is no concession permit

duowiing" out of private property without conensation. 

were, it could not be done. Furthermore. if the committee w

with me a moment, you do not understand how we worked o

problem. It is absolutely vital. The dam is suppOsed to e

regulation. We met a statement from the chief engineer 

high lake level is to be regIulated by the Ochoa Dam. You ca

that. It is a fixed dam; there will be no gates on it. Fuirt herm

ill level ag'e place because and by less carried have which, a of river thanfixed is a it the letter to off there is inl are be (0 quantity. lakes to answer regulated froi per oscillatinig is the be no westward cent rgulated the wstward provision to Then of chief a by question Ip the discharging through and comes eng"'ineer, by through there totaldown. the onthe waste for the that Ochoa extraordinary which the anything 60 canal You point, per or Pacific Dam.call we surplus cent intohe movable, received notf canal. the replies How, reguhite statementhe drainage Pacific. surplI last that and Thodon
212 NICARAGUA CANAL.

m11 Is ci 1 liot be recoticiled ; they are incoherent; it is no

ili. JOV. I f the lake rises at its Iiig'liest point 120 feet 10 

the su1iilit level, would it iiot submilerge just as much lan

4,1n iaises it 110 feet 

Colonel lU1LoW. The lake never goes there now. The 

have noted was hut 111 or 112 feet.

Mr. JoY. You say there was a range of 14 feet?

( > oliel LUDLOW. l1 etweei the miniimum and maximum 

imni xinniuii bei ig represented by 112 feet above sea level at 

the natural colnditionis as we found tlem there. Now, you 

d aioi up so it shall iiot fall below 111 feet. You only have 

2 Iet to the piresenlt Imiaxiiuin stage, but the water b

lighiest aw1l lowest range h8as still to be accounted for, a

reline to let t le lake fill below 110 feet, you have to allow for 

maxinum range above that during rainy seasons.

Mr. I 0ULLITLLE. And for the disposal of that walter?

Cohniel Lu )EOW. You have to get rid of it some way or it 

(oill the valley.

Tlimit is a series of q1uestions the company had not investig

ciuh Id it get iy ilfi)ilnfratioll oil the s ubject froii the com1a

we went around the lake and through the river we got w

Mr. DML'TTLE. Do hot the weirs prove that those things 

into consideration

oloiel LUDLOW. N4); the weirs simply provide for a flow 

do iot provide for regulatin the lake level at all. Y

do that withi fixed weirs at all. All you Can be sure of with 

to Im(d water r-) to a certain point. We believe the weirs a

by he company Will be totally adei iuate during the descen

of the lake-tlie dry season. They eal not hold the water, 

ill) [0 110 feet. The discharge over tho Ocloa Darn is at 10

sill u- the weir at -cioa, and the San Carlos weirs are a foot and a half

lower tlan that, so that as the lake fell and the supply dra

it is unlUes!ioimbl that tihe slope would become nearly hori

the river would drtali itself dowNi, hot to 106 or 108, but to 1

is t lie reference of the weir sills on. the San Carlos.

That is o:e of the lowest points, and if you don't keep wat

i n all the timle there it will run down, naturally. It is those 

w ant Iighi up: ii an d which are indispensable to aii y real solid 

in1g proj fect. No engineer would permit you to state that these data,

that this illtorilnationi eani be omitted, or that it would be saf

take tlie construction of enoriimous works until you have t

low ari1 you goig to tell about the depth at which that great cut

tllrollu1g the east divide shall be projected? A ditfierence o

two witih all eiorimiouis elasim ill a mIiouiitaiin range is a serio

ei'at of and and toransportation worked of ( had )(hoa their Feet miiake iol, of vo;l sought ! what anid itfyol u like hard a inc We clalnnel. Greytowl, nature to heavers of work wantill discover liies, Sai figure and here to .Juian there We wIhichi know whlicl kind by it is want out. a River aid all and those thorougih-going the at to aiccomplishied iuceertainty A tile quantity com ai(d know things. di iipany conclusion ffereice tile about bed it hias We is, ofof double a of theo of I awant not great loo! be it,foot its means removed ascertainand check worto deil; of Ofwlknow whaleveof thlinbt
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

from Greytown to the divide and thence to Ochoa. That sho

they thought about it, although we have no reference to that, y

stand, in the printed information.

I do not know, gentlemen, that it is expedient to go oii fur

these general points. We have believed it in the interest of 

en gi ers, if you choose, that this project should be put in su

and be treated in such a rational sense that it would be accept

engiieering World outside of us. You can not do these tliigs 

bishiel. This isa project tiat excites the interest of the whole 

img world. It is the most interestingv engrineerino work ever 

al(i the diffictilties of the work are not exceeded by any o

wuork.

Mr. BENNETT. Still, there are no difficulties so serious in t

t1at they c-ani not be overcome I

Colonel LUDLOW. -ou will never get an eno'ineer to a(lmit t

are difficulties which can not be overcome; that any en-ineeri

ject not in consistent with the laws of nature is impossible if 

money aln([ time enotigh to accomplish it

ilr. DOOLITTLE. The difiilltiCs IeVC are not insiimoiiii Le

ing to your own jidgient as a man

Colonel LUDLOW. No, sir. The board has expressed tie 

that it is con viniced of the fact thia:t the construction of a can

the isthmus is feasible. We have said so, and we believe it; 

if you please, with this kind of enoineering, because you ca 

build a canal there, if you cho Ise, gentlemen, and you can i

said, a thousanl milli m dollars, and nlot get through. Thi

engineers tried that. They spent $500,000,000-tlat amount

Ihs disappeared-and they have nearly wrecked the French i 

ae(uint of it.

Mr. 1)OOLITTLm. You can do that with nearly any undertak

Mr. BENNETT. How Much it cost is absolutely unsettled.

Colonel IurITLow. We believe, after the most faithftil cons

we can give this subject, the cost Ci work and labor, and w

be necessary to (]0, etc., the cost cf construction, actual com

iotiing else, will be under ,130,000 000. I express 'Se(I the ol 

other day, in response to an inquiry, that I regretted we had 

the estimate $1 5 0,000,000, because I tionght that sum wil 

It is a matter of judgment. We are perfectly convinced that 

cani be bil t.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Withinii the limits you name in your repor

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; we believe it can be dioe, amd 

But we (lo int believe at the present time there is siiflicient ill 

to warrant the formulation of the engineering project, with th

of col nstruct ioi, giving it out to the world and advertisi g for 

tion, which is the only way it can be built. It is to be adv

the world and to be bid for by the contractors of the world

have going time?will buid it m1iust - Mr. Colonel Mr. cannot t have the BARTLETT. to not BARTLETT. Ani be do go canal actually LUDLOW. d a engineer ivide(I all aiead choice thaton The uI) the With be on on or toItinto commenced it.nformation substance call thea bid safety contractor sections You information be. so and couldn't of until for weyour s will construction have. on a that tell view mane resurvey each you is as available section. to itcontract is can'tostructioand made the be atHow with ? coth(d
214 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLOW. From the engineering standpoint, I t

extremely dangerous to do. It is what has gotten people in

wheitever they have undertaken it. You see, the engineer is 

about that; he wants to know what lie has to do before he u

to (1o it. Ile doesn't want to postpone accumulating his da

will settle costly things, until he gets it nearly done. 1 a

there is not all engineer inl the world who would not tell you 

thing, if you sent for the whole of them.

I have a lot- of data here, in accordance with your reques

spent yesterday i ( )ing over carefully. We have collecte

stuff wich was really the guide for us in making the pric

rep ~or.

Alr. )0 TLITTLE. You may state again, Colonel Ludlow, w

('1irimi I of the Board of Commis(sioners hIto visited Nicarn

C4 lonel LIDLOW. My colleagues on the board were good 

elect me to that Position.

Al r. DoOLITTLE. And who was the secretary?

Colonel LuiowV. We had soie trouble ill getting a 

got a man from the War Department, andi he was scared off; 

I l:( another one eigiged, and he went off.

Alr. DOOLITTLE. Whom did you finally get? Colonel LUDLow. A man named Stoddart.

Mr. 1) LITTLE. Was ite present with you ill New York a

this report was made ill) aind the items consi(lered 5?

Colonel LUDLO)W. Yes; lie was there right along. He wAs 

writer aml stenograpier for the Commi ssion. We called 

secrenI ary because it sounded a little more dignified.

Mr. D ITTLi. Now, when all of the items embraced in 

were being considered by the board, (lid I he board regularly 

the q itestions arisinig as to quantities, etc.?

Colonel l v omi w. No, sir; we never voted on anything. 

together aNl day long, and conferred all the time. We didn't 

formal voting.

Dr. OOLITTLE. In conceiving the spirit of your report, h

that you decided to enter into a critical discussion of the pro ' j

coI pa ity's clief engineer instead of confining yourselves to 

straigh fl(rward report, making, as competent engineers, 

project from the data furnished or obtainable?

Colmel LVDLow. Tliere are two answers to that. O(ne i

reports of the chief engineer constituted the basis of the 

pro *ject-I do not know of any other. The Second answer i

law enacted by Congress under which the board was oper

cificaliy directed mur attention to thie company's project, an

afh1liorize us to propose a project of our omwin. Tiit appea

inside of' the cover of' our report. We quote the law there, 

your permission I will answer your question that way, 

referecivie to act canal the strction provided I iuiidred nmy Fi1r formilcl law- we tie by say and w for purpose ani crc the to hare ninty-live, by the completion : a di route all project rec that of Iw-a act afscertaining ted already whiche entitled of Of to were extract the our look passefi contemplated, "Au Nicatrae own, h pleased e into act the e:sibility, from but, to the Svnate to amend the that i an:l find feasibility permainence, act Jan or, under by the that approved to the act y quote the w route entitled t wre provisioand the contem-eightMarccos. 'An nola-
NICARAGUA CANAL. 2

porate the Maritime Canal Company of Nicaragna,' approved February 

eighteen hundred and eighty-nine," twenty thoutiand dollars.

That's what we went to investigate. How are you going to 

the chief engineer's statement from the project of the compan

his project. He is the author of the project; who else? Engiiiee

engineering projects. The chief en gineer of the canal com

whatever the association is called-naturally made the project

part, of the official record of the coinpaity. Mr. MIeiiocal's ollici

of 1890 stands on record as the last publication from the com

explaiiiiiig the project, and we had that in our hands. Ve ha

steer by.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, this report was made up from the d

nished by the company ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Our report?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir; in the main, was it not?

Colonel LUDLOW. Iit in our report you will fid may sta

and assertions based on information we gathered oitrselvyes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Your report, however, was most largely m

the company's data?

Colonel LUDLOw. The details, yes, sir; but the important v

we endeavored to ascertain for ourselves.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Why (lid you not yourselves get the data y

plain the compaiiy did not furnish ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Instead of six months and 20,000, it 

would have taken three years and 600,000 to have done that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I )o you think it would take three years t

the data that the company's statements are deficielit in ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We estimated that it would take two an

years, and we made a very narrow estimate-[ should say we e

it would take a year and a half, and I am sorry we did not mak

years.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, I wish you would state to the commit

examinatiomi you made when traveling up and down the S

River to ascertain the character of the material in the bottom 

stream.

Colonel LUDLOW. We had no opportiuity to make any.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Isn't it true, accordiing' to modern methods 

taining the character of the bed of a river, that had you 

water-jet rod the character of the bed of the San Juan Riv

have beeii ascertained so far as earth material was concerned?

Colonel LUDLOw. No; excuse me, but there are two things 

embrace. You speak of a rod and a jet. One means a jet 

through a pipe. That is the forcing power of the jet which you 

on to sink a pipe down. In the other case, you have a solid ro

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I understand, but isn't it termed by engin

contractors Colonel water-jet rodding? familiar making down 30 find hard Mr. Colonel Colonel miles out clay. the DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. that with of that river-that LUTnDIOow. LUDLOw. LUDLOW. it. kind egineering bottom, Wef I How would I Those We a is, have have test andso could much work. have from ters as you a never good to not expense had cnthesatisfy vary heard do many steamer to not anything in spend yourselves it. would get different times, that a the of water have thconveyed and parts whole in kind. jet beei a I genera

of time into amhe invyou Thta n
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. I)DHOITTTLE. Dut you can through earth material?

(' Ioel L - 181 xv. \V NAt is (arth?

!i\r. D) TT 1;. artlI material-clay.

Coluiel LA)LOw. Tle jet would find great difficulty in pe

s5mie ('Llv.

Mr. D)OL T LE. Is it not trne that in building the Port Or

d4(k they were eilabie1d to peietirate the very hardest kind 

h1:1rdpanl by til- mcmils?

'01 neL 1m,' w. Oh, yes, it is quite possible, because 

m11 i inn g will tear :1I1m.t anIythinig. I have seen great chin 

d4wn by1 I' t hiS H 4\VIr.

Mr. I )(H)ITT LE. ThS is is not flydrailimn but, I 

(14niel LN11VW. We lld nO applianlces of' that kind at al

wit 4fd Ihe (I 1in )11 Fin' Us to imike such aM exmimation. 

was 14m vlI1ibl4 to do that.

r Iv. I t 4.1 ()I I B. A Wlwit woIkild ha:voe been Ite expense of 

moll to h~ve !nl:de m11 CmNi iition of that kind?

Colonel livlmvw. W hat. :;0 miles 

111r. Don TTE. Yes, at frequent intervals Iltrong~h these 

O11ne l I iw. The 11mieri'al varies everywvhlere. accordin

(11anyi S in1ma8lol. IFojmi said to rock. Ymi (21 gO dow

wai ' jet ill snii. We win1l woik ilthlugh the chiv. perhl

W0411d n1T (wt ifii into the Trave1. The jet listr iltt' itsel

till, v'1 m l 111d I vot ca4(!sily peieti'te. With !h reck. 

we wniid be pw1(1f:'tly lielpless. If we SrUck a 1owle, we w

khnw whami t iF was. or sucli work stcam drills, dialmnld 

114 14 S I~ I 'Y

"11r. D L'1,"L,. You are f1iliiilimr with that Imlethod. 

staWe to he coililnithei the expellse of' all inIvestigati 1 of tha

be) iv:1' 1byv a comipett t e 1wt 1 

( (ldiel LI' ,) v. It w 4d1114 Ive taken ,ll oir time down t

Alr. Butii l. mlut ou liu1l other men with you

('(dowel L!> Vc. Ye;1 01i( WO kept theml bllsy.

Air. osL'iTTLE. Y41did ot detail "myi e Ior Aflt

('(ooiel LcoXv. No; no more than wC (et iiled men 1

thirmugh 1 he eatdivide.

Mr. 1oivTTiiE. I)idn't it 'curl to you that 50 far as th

811111 in the 1)tho (d, the riv-r was cmicerned, it shi)ld 

gatd 4

4m11o'l1 L . We were decidely of that opinion.

Mr. I )ooLITTLE. Still yNmi did not make such inivestio"ItigOU 

Colonel 1w Low4. Not in the least. W\e thoiit that boris 

be I1:le in thio east divide :1aso, but we did not do so.

[Nrl'. 1)o(LITT LE. Will vou 1St;1te that ai illvestiga t ion could 

bweln 1nu:1e 1,6r 5_00 (w -* ;01 thait wom]nhl hve enlablod comp

(10n1(erned( ellilleer stituted Mr. (Cdoliiel C pa11' , Dho11oLITTLE1. 4 d the 14) I liio I 111ae bed L hve LUcI I of wvacr IXv. ail )v. that CJolm'l And ill It jet Y\1 was FLE. I es;.t river. Wilhii r11Ided LIO\. tlink Tim I"ition Int is.) l, p tI-ar the thIat You tihat the '11101 ssi as ('14 could whIiole IbIe. 161. the 'scel'taii not period S Ie ea1 100 not yOl hed (lone. (w h (b) withere hottoi the 8'5HI anything mIaterial thousanddlowui vou of cl I'ethof w
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

It woUld take many months instead of days or weeks, and tho

iiistead of hundreds of dollars.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. My suggestion is simply this: That by the 

water jet, rod, or tube, used from the steamer that you were tr

on, you couldI have made an investigation. It is true, isn't it 

sa-lid a water-jet pipe will descend as rapidly as you call drop it 

Colonel Luiaow. Sometimes faster.

1\Mr. D)ooLIT TLE. And isn't it true that that kind of ai i[vestiL

for the iurjpose of aseertaiiiiiig in a general way the 1 bed of this 

for tie purpose of your report, cOmld have been maide at an exp

500 or ,600?

Colonel L{TDLOW. I don't think it coUil. It wolnl simply be 

of ,(500 or ,4600. Furthermore. the company had in its omin p' 

a profile whih piirporl ed to shiow the nature of that river botto

didn't fitd out; that that profile was utterly fallacious until afte

Mr. DoOiTTLL. W hen did you find it was utterly fallacio us

Colonel Lun1ow. WlIhe it we ca8me to exam ine the company's 

ill New Ym1k. We fnid 11heni thait that profile was directly tak

tile I 1111 intf,61rm ation: '1n1d when we came to tind out whiiat inifo

the LIll] expvditin obtailned ini rtferece to the river we found th

hlad Simpily mi ad e a bat slil-vey of the river, talking, thie in(1ica

the lea(. \We 11,1(1 110 reason to (1iStru st the tn liticity of tile i

tion Vgiv us by the comp lany Until we found tihat there was no 

tioi for it, or 1iext to none. The information was based me

siurfaUe imdical ions, the leadsman calling out what the imlicatim

a,,; ti1e 1at we it a] ong. ut there is a careflilly collstriucted 

wlich is a part of the company's records, and wh iclh was givent 

a asis of their estimates.

M r. DOOLITTLE. Will you not state what you did, if anything

(owN thee ill the wa of ascertaining what the bed of that river a

cOlthiIIS it! tIw wNay of material?

'oh n LI Je1 w. We made no further attempt to ascertain th

acter o4 tie bottom of the river than the notiing of whii w cm

M i. )DOLITT LE. What did YOU See that led you to believe t 

( v W, 1; rik th r 

(Coh1mel litImLow. We saw lots of rock there.

"l. DOOLIT'TLE. What was the character of the rock; 1owl

(')o!1nel LUDLOW. LedgI~es andl bowlders, both.

. )OOLITTLE. Where did you observe along the line of th

this rock you speak of, aml to what extent?

Colonel M )L 0 -W. At all the rapids.

Mr. DOOLIT TLE. Won't you specify at what points?

( 'ohnel LUi1W. At macuca; above that the Balas Rapi

(8 stillio P apids; at the Toro RIapids above that. At all of these 

miles-what miles the there there.ween mile; Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Tro or at DOOLTTTLE. DOOLITTLE. was O(choa 21 the Rapids LUDLOW. LuTLOw. a miles; we 11alas large and could it the would at rock Rapids What YeS, What It lake, see. the was sir; exposure. cover extent Castillio from we the a Atwhat matter could the perhaps rock your would you Machuca Rapids The see'? that covered observations? were 2 you river coulti or only able 3 say Rapids, perhaps miles. was be this about to measured low note. rock I 2 a think, when or quartcove3 mb

w
2?18 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Altogether, not to exceed 8 miles?

1DL() W. That ( mu itch n in silgihit.

III. DOOLITTLE. And not to exceed that much rock in sig

Colonel LUIEow. Tiat is perhaps all we saw.

Al1. DooLITTLE. Tlien you don't know that there is any 

there tlian that you have mentioied?

'oloniel LVI)Low. No. Our information was derived from 

i1es stibinitted by the comp-1any. It was given us as officia

OIIr illformati100m.

Mr. Doo 'LT'TLE. Thle Ot her day when you were making a 

about lie tei-imi s of the canal on the Atlantic side, you 

t ion-lit it wise to change the mouth i of the canal. I n ot

whieii you recoimeil a diifterent Greytown entraice, do you 

at tlie point y)U (1esigiate is forbidden by the concessio

dell by tle chlater of tle company

C(l Mnel 1UDLow. No; we idii't pay much attention to th

whi at was providtedl for by the concessions or the chlar-ter. 

r11'. 1)OOLITTLE. Didn t you know that you crosSe(l the 

fiue 1

(1oMnel LUTOW. Yes; we knew it crossed the alleged 

bet ween Costa lica uil Nicarag'ua.

i\Mr1'. 1Yu)L' . 11 y1 u l1)ked at tle concessions to se

it collid 1e iaii.ngel Witiin tie limits of i those colnce'.Ssions 

,oloIIel LLunmw. No, sir; we, did not concern ourselves 

1hiiiigs.

Ali'. )oOLTTLE. NOINw, if tiht could hot be chanigel un1der 

cessiouis, would you still adhere to your plans

Colonel LUI.LoW. I (10 iit believe in paralyzing a proje

kiund by (a mere question of a mile, or two of snlild beacl.

lr. I)o IrTL. But you did state that the Greytown IHa

be colstiVllcted; thIIat it w"as feasible ?

(O)IOnI LUDLow. We think so.

A11. 1)OMTTLE. Ill a'Ordaince witli the pLans of the com

( 'olonici LIjto'.I)W. The plans of the cop)Ialiy Not in the 

believe that to be impractieabhe.

A1r. D)()TETTE. YoU believe it to be impossible?

Comloel LUDLOw. 01i, what is impossible'? I would say 

ble-olit of, the questiol. it you c1oos1 , botli as a question o

in" malI cost.

I. Dma))4 ITTLE. You bm)elieve a channel sufficiently dlee

emistru-lctedI there by cfrylgtose jetties sufficiently fiar 

If thIIse jet ties wePIv buIIi It out far eoIIIg0hi it coil4 be maint

thlinkl, tliii Olo 1 10, you Vojl nmt'? fO r Ito \?l C o4 )14 )l b It w IOW. d be a fearftil cost, and present

be M1. I irea:ItnIIed wiltl I4strction. ject. you, of built u1) impriacticable, tiat, that C ito loiio geit if' mliad1e. tie where inlvestigeate D We you 1emen, said LU siirveyetd L undertake I the TTLE. We o for 4w. movement we (om4lpany 014) the the g)Ive Please itiot As 111(1o anid reason to believe fully Imiost proposes make (xamine(1 tiiere-it state ,ind itset careful llarlbor tlie is what your firtli the it; Greytown being it fearfil entrance colnsideraItion lieal thliat and I in Iead, in our walke1I of iscost! botl and to a there report. lairbor blight, say, limt Oe d1irectio

to you wI1 entrathat beacand Anwhrew
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

fight the sands coming from the east and from the north, and figh

forever.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. 'What did you observe there, Colonel Ludlow

led you to this conclusion?

Colonel LUDLOW. Thitat the sands were coining front both way

Mr. DooLITTLE. How (lid you kNiow l

Coloiiel LUDLOW. We saw them. There is no question wh

about that.

_Mr. DOOLITTLE. Sands w'ashimg down the coast!

C(olonIel LITIOW. Washiniiig westward from the I [arbor Point

thlat broken piece off' there [iidicating oi iia l, wlichi is called I

Head. It looks like a little liarbr or reeittrait to the land at th

of that red tiling Iindicating on map , which represents the can

bor. To the right of that there is an opening, which front time 

is the harbor and the entrance to Greytown, and the oily one. 

was the case wheun the company went there. Now, the sands u

tiowably are coming in from that point of land.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is that point of land threatened by this was

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir. It is being cut off at the end. 'W

covered that; it had never been noted before. We iadle a 

comparison of a series of maps showing that point, anud we prove

that eastern end was wasting.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And that bight was being filled ip'?

Colonel LuDLoW. Filled up in that direction. It can not be 

wise, because, if you please, if you lay otV a line there bearinlg_ b

east and northeast you will get the direction of the prevailing w

with an average direction of about east-northeast. That is tie a

direction of the trade winds. You will see, the east-northeast

strikes the beach at an angle of about 450. Those waves com

that angle. They gather up material and take it along. Th

wave takes it farther. You can see it; you can throw a chlip ov

see it.

I know of a war ship that was anchored off that entrance, w

mile, and the sands there are so easily moved that the ship's m

would not hold. They originally anchored off abioit 4 miles. 

thought it would be more coilvenlient to come inl new rer, aind S

came withiii about a mile of the beach. Their aimnciors hield of

but after they came in this distance their anchors did not ho

dragged, and they had to go out again. That, if you pleas

Doolittle, is half of' it.

Now, I will explain what the board believe to be the fact in rea

the other portion. Tiere is tiat river Indio. In appri ah ing the 

it turns parallel with the shore, toward Greytowi. If I had a 

I could indicate oil the m]ap what I meani. I mean the Indio 

down near the bea c, and instead of directly enteriing the Carilbbe

lolkows parallel on the inside. We investigated the action of tlia

tlere, was the from has along upper cut Mr. Colonel right sea coiistan out time after DOOLITTLE. and distiauce farther into through to LUDLOw. from the tlytime, the entranice here worked the and Caribbean with that best What is farther I a think a to narrow until matter information strotig distance? the Sea, to it it south the stretch has of freshet gets as 10 would south, been w nar [indicati miles to from culd within naturally theo and where Greytown. the ig sea. get that 2 on Indio, its orSuppose be might the normal sand 3 the miles, th inmap], go spit casest thadisram ouanm
NICARAGUA CANAL.

1akes :I notion to go straight out there, it has left then al

U f* smni spit between its present mouth and Greytown. It 

I r~iiskiirl t I:11 sand spit bodily to the right bank. when 

mwriy on t lie lull. It goes on and does that thing again. 

ii'el, 1a, as we believe although no observations have b

Ii h V Id 1q i is eontniially going oni, with the result that there 

mI1I)VewIdIit of tit lfbeaCh san1 down toward the end of t

muieet in 1 le icemuin' sand from the other side. We do no

fi 1 w S to omlertake to bui ld au entrance to that harbor 

A r. ID 1ITLE. Wai is the size of that river ?

('nloiel lu iiow. A great big river.

\l V. I )LTTL. It does not compare with tihe San Juan 

4 'nlonel LIDLoW. We did not go il1) the Indio very muu3h

si v \\ hre w\VI sd w it, miar the entrance, I presume it was 200 to 400 feet

u\ i e :11!11 I I e ti IL wider.

.r. I iuTTLE. Is that affected by the tide?

( '4)11 II Lw. There is 11o tide in the Caribbean Sea 

Alr. iM LITTLE. Is there a tide at (Ircytown l What 

there

('oeli-mvmw. From 9 to 13 or 14 inches.

p. j h l(uT . Is that a silt -carryinog stream!

4 1 el 1 IAmw. \ll those streais have been, I think, in 

la e:ts ihs dcli is built up of that.

r V. (' 1 FTh. I)id vou examine that stream?

4 'Ilnwel Irm.vW. Walked up the beacli ourselves; yes, s

v. )uUT' . iNow, what would that have had to d

l1 1 Fh (-)' w ater to 1be obtained between those jetties, prov

pt lieS \uPB Col istructed of p proper material and carried out to 

ikplh to dee1p water-permanellt deep water?

liel I LuDLOW. Ilow far would it go?

Sr. I )oo NT TLE. I I ow far would you goI

4 'olwwl IA IL w. That is the point.

Mr. 0i OLITTLE. Ilow far do you go out there to get 7 

u\:IIer

( olonel LUDLOW. About 6,000 or 8,000 feet.

r. Iu~TFT LE. Tlfit is not a very long jetty, is it?

colonel l Iuntow. The 7-fatlionis contour is about 4,000 

the shlite, and the S-fathoms coitour about 8,000 feet froi 

4)11 the line o the company's jetty. They built a tlioisaid 

(I less, nd t Ile shore line Ihas followed out as they built the 

i\Ir. 1)4 'OLITTLE. hut is not a jetty of unusual length a

feet -is iti

('loniel III ow. No, there ire jet ties much lon ger than 

All'. 1)(WTIuTTLE. YCS, even at ithe 111011th of the (Iolum

twice that lenigtIII.

(4o'llnl LI.'m .W. PerIlmps two or three I imes as long. of be. COMISC down lh:1(l he C4lINIl ('oloel Ilr. Mvr. W w\"stc( I& rvlaso .1 aShInIton, would cmllrs-e, iU I)Do of a u '?i' LITTLE. period to they nIov. LuT2. )L( i* Ippr 'NV. hmlillg reach of inlt4,1lce. H1ow Theu hed Yes. No, time ((e 1unn1-;al if oliuT'u.2.T far Hot sir; carried Ihie Itha not c1ntemplated beyond it building tie I extremely after it to breakwater were the 8,000 you of point i(eces'smry. had protracted, jetties feet at Greys built of lat of huid Chicago your that But Miarbo

your that lejesi
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LuoIvW. You see how that jetty heads [poinitinig to 

Mlr. I R) n TTLE. Yes, Sir.

C(ilolcl 1)L{ow. U'p the beacI.

Mr. I )looL ITTLE. I do not rel(Tard it as up the beach.

Colonel lumLOW. It heads north, a little west (I n orth.

A1r. DIMLITT ILE. flow far WoV ,(1000 feet carry it'!

Mr. NojiDLE. Very ne arily north.

Mr. D ITTLE. The lhea(l ol lad you spoke of. WoildI no

Feet, or it c-rried out to 7 fatliomis, would it not be away nt s

beyond tile point of fild y'ott have beeni speaking of as beling e 

Colotiel LUDLOw. It would be further fuiom shore, bit 111ot 

wI t r.

Alr. DI)OLi rLE. WNAOYIl it 110t, be ill deepewr w ateri

Colhiel I) LOw. No; because you can get at a point tfart lie 

Stm i i Sn a very short distalice.

AIr. 1)oLITTLE. How far would yot go beflle )-M wo-Ml

fa Ithoms of water

( colonel LULm)ON. Two thousand feet froml shore.

Air. l)(H)LIFTLE. allow fir does that point (W Lind exteiid no

beyoml the mouth of the c1inial, eiiuptvino)g inti' the sea!

Colonel LUi w. 1low far does that extend northward I ! It do

extend iortlI\hward.

1l r. I )oo 1 ITT1, E. In whIat directiOi IOCS it exte Id i

Coloniel LUDL)oW. The point of land you speak of is about ea

(X11I1Ill.

Alr. DOOLITTLE. I unlderstad111, 1 but I say how much farti e

di 4)s it extel1d thaii the m1 outhI of le canal as sllown oil tile i ip

ColOliel LUDLOW. I don't think it is aiiy north of it.

AIr. DOOLITTLE. Then does it extend farther Seaward to th

comiparl-ed wit Ii the illouth of the calmil!

Coloiiel Lu LOW. Varther seaward-farther eastward.

Mr. 1 )(MIITTLE. Aiid farther north!

Colonel LUDLOW. I tllink Ot.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. See, the arrow points iorth, doesn't it [ 1 )Oi

mIapj 

Colonel LUDLoW. Yes; it is supposed to. That is a very cru

I brougiht (lowhi with me the only little limp I could fiind of Ihi

Alr. D)OOLITTLE. In accordance with this arrow, this poillt 

here

Colonel LITDLo4w. Seelis to lie a little IiOrtherly, I see. It se

Mr. D )OLITTLE. I say, hw I th-arther north does it lie th

liar bor [referring' to map 4)Oi the wall

Colonel LUDLOW. I doi't kiioW. You call iiot eStitate anvt

that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You ran surveys?

Col4meI LUDLOW. Surely; but if you will give mne a map I w

-it merely agree you vry I may Mr. Coneloloiie Mr. that in capable with D)OLITTiLE. DOOLITTLE. be I point stateminute. peirmitted LUDLOW. LUDLOW. them. engineers impossible. that We fact. I You to I Yes, wish turned do state, who believe We and notyou have whIlile il say kiiow, do would a six declared not so, harbor I oreight am11 at and name quote thisabout can estimate the those mpsof moment, them, be it, construction built tihat engineers. for because Grey thewho thlreere constrown tie of we havi 'y a 
NICARAGUA CANAL.

This lit tle map I have here is the best I happen to have wit

it (1oes not show v\ery nmueh; it is oil too large a scale. I 

that pnint seemns to be a little north, if you please.

,11r. 1)D()LI TTLE. I would like to ask you whether, ill your ju

w 4u hi be a better plan to extend those jetties ili a right line 

north tlian to coirstruct them as they are constructed in accord

tle plans of the company?

'olonel LIumow. We think, as far as that jetty is conce

suflicienitly well placed, ad about the proper direction, supp

areT "'oii u4 to iiiake your entrance at that )ointt. We do not cri

Air. )OOLITTLE. how tar out beyond the 8,000 feet would i

saly, or yave you any data to base your judgment oin, as to 

farther out those jetties should be built than 8,000 feet inl or

tliem into permanent deep water?

Colonel LUmL(w. If you got out to 8,000 feet you have 

depti of water wiihi we found by examinations of the charts

imation was not entirely full about it-the indications were 

8- latliom contour in the sea bed was quite fixed. There seem

remrkble stability about the 8-tat1hoim curve.

Mir. DuOLITTLE. And you think the sand would no long

vIeni you rechlIed tile 8-fathom depth?

Colonel liuch 1)1 W. It (lid seem, uider the ordinary natural 

that t here hiad Ibeen very little movement of the sand at tha

Air. DImLITTLE. How far would you go beyond the 8,000 

reaichiug 8 fathoms

Colonel LUn ow. That is where you get it on the line o

pany's pier.

M1r. DI ) TTLE. In 8,000 feet?

Colotiel Lu Lw. You would get it at 8,000 feet on the 

comp y's pier.

Mr. IDiniTTLE. You believe that would make a permane

wli(t uhinuine11l 

('olonel Ix T Iw. You asked mei how long it would take t

th e~ Ieth 11 th 1 e c t ra nc at that pin t. N)w~, 1l1Idersta id me, we believe

that whluere this clm)pnly's entrance is proposed the fillinig t

from I1ti directions, mid witi a pier conistructed as the com

POsCS, thle sali d wo uld bank Up there-the said coming froi 

as it will-wit h1 aniy jetty you put there. Furthermore, it is 

fle inlinx of saud from the west, which has got to be taken 

Al1. DIoLITTLE. I'ut if extended to 8,000 feet in length ?

( olonecl Lit ow. If it were extended so as to inclose 

thiig on both sides it would be a long time before you woul

trouble with it.

Alr. 1) 0L1 TLE. And a channel of that kind can always b

C 'oloiel Li toW. Yes.

Al 1. DoOLiTTLE. I say it eami always be readily dredge(l if 

be bUilt advaIintage our CO' Colonel Mr. Colonel li. done report. report. 1 DOoLITTLE. I) i4d iel on operated Luntow. LITiEA IUDLOW. to pretty LIT 1 We he confine .w. U muchi .\Your '11Ad Isn't ii There I ted prefer (ion't all maintained ourselves States th summary is sandy recognize the no your and serious text shores. to coinClusion; at ishe the ofthat aprofit commerce our trouble engineering the exm-tly conclusion to canal isn'tthe about of as that is builersthe featurea feasibas thatquotruwoco
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But the substance of that is that the canal is f

Colonel LUDLOW. We say it is feasible, and we think by mo

the conipany's project in soie particulars it can be built.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And can be operated and maintaiiied at a p

the builders, and with advaiitage to the United States and the co

of the world ?

Colonel LUDLOW. You don't find that in what we say. Do yo

my personal opinion ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir.

Colonel LUDLOw. You asked me as a member of the boar

didn't gro into any coiiiercial statistics, any navi nation statis

military statistics. That was not a part of what it was our bisi

investigate, and it would have been impertinent onI our part to ha

so. We were told to confine ourselves to engineeriiig, and we w

to do that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And you desire to answer that question 

report?

Colonel LUDLOW. We stand right on that; yes, sir. I am w

express my individual opinion if it would be of ally value.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, isn't it true that your board believes t

country should bv the prime iifactor, and that the canal would best be

built with American talent, machiiiery, and supplies?

Colonel LUDLow. That is a matter with which the Board, colle

have nothing whatever to do; have never considered it. I cani no

for ny colleagues oii that matter.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How is it with yourself? Do you believe th

try should be the prime factor, and that it should be best 

American talent, machinery, and supplies?

Colonel LUDLOW. We expressed the opinion that it will hav

built by Jamaica negroes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I understand-that is, so fiar as the commo

is concerned. but I mean the general building'?

Colonel LUDLOW. I think it would be an extremely nice thing 

American engineers to take a hand at this. The F1rencli en

tried the Panama Canal and wrecked themselves. The EngliAis

neers had a chance at the iManchester Canial tiid bhliercd a 

the Englishman sometimes does-and the Gernani had his chait

Kiel Canal and made a success. Now, I want to see the Am

enI"ineers take hold of this Nicarag'uan Canal and succeed, 

will (10.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You have no doubt that they will succeed '?

Colonel LUDLOW. Not the least.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you not believe that Americaiis could 

quicker and cheaper than any others?

Colonel LUDLOW. I have absolute faith in the ability of the 

cans to do almost anything better than anybody else, includ

construction tatingly estimates provisions, tion, h obtained ave ,Mr. Colonel Mr. and you DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. say ?utilization figured LUDLOW. are powder, yes? of based canals. rail and And Have of I transportation the should electricity, all greatly in you the answer say taken most lower compressed-air so.per to modern into this prices ton the pr question methods of accounts mile machinery, drills according you for and on would canalwhicpumironto 
224 NICARAGUA CANAL.

C(donel IITLOw. 0), yes; we imet the matter absolutely

all invest iga;ttioii of this in order to arrive at unit prices 

imt sille'. We res rted to every ieaiis of information 

We tmlk ill al the statistics we could get from responsible 

anld capable people.

Mr. D) LITTLE. Have you also considered that your 

(ihis work ar-e upon a gold basis"!

C(n()Iel Ltvml w. Ohi, yes; we have not estimated any

1p)I I gdd basis.

Alr. D ILITTLE. All a gold basis?

Ct oloel LuvIL( W. We could not have made estimates upon a silver

basI S (14w? there, becausee their silver is only worti 50 

doll, a11d il varies every day.

Mr. D ul'TT E. What allowance did you make, it any

except skilled lahor, would Ile paid for by silver in that co

(ll4lit1I LVLtAw. We didn't gO illt1O thiat qu1lestiOn. W

ill tiat rI I-espect Laigely iponi information as to the actual value of all

piysicail hl'r ill thie Trpics, 'ettin-g our information from 

well iniwriled ImleII.

Ali-. Dh TTLE. You know that all unskilled labor there 

bor ill silver 2

(oloel L I TDLOw. Of course the natives there take s

llQVer1 s1aw 2ld, aiwl would not know what it was if you gav

They would be paid in silver.

Ar. D1Mo TTLE. Yo(l say you did iiot take that into co

C()omlel Lunhow. We arrived at the Imatt.er by a shorte

left tIht consideration out because we found certain person

ill ibottt I hat sort Of thiing'. There was a concurrence ot 

ile act al va tie of labor was about one-half what it is in 

S ites. C aisequently, the value being one-half, the co

dombledl.

All*. D(IA TTLE. What proportion of the cost of cOnst

ciiinal would the iinskiled labor to be employed miake tUp?

Colonel Lt mow. I don't know; we didn't make any 

t hat.

.1r. DO)ILITTLE. Could you readily do so"!

Colonel I)Um ow. Not in the least, readily. It would b

iIeSiitlol, libiacillog a lot of fi gures. Ave would have 

I le di j1rei1t kinds (Iof work (lowNI there Is to what WoUld be 

by skilled labor antd what by unskilled labor, ordinary or 

It woii l vary a 4ereat deal withi the different kids of wor

,All'. O(ILIT TLE. Did yOU allow that any other items than 

be aflected bIy the use of silver in that country?

Slnel inLU (W. We did not go into silver at all. We 

sider talit question at all. We left that out. We were tak

l'-s 81md all our estimates are based on the United Stat

tIlat selfhe Unlitedl m14onley, 'hlere (ColojI Thie Mr. inlto wmnld as DOis (\r committee Sta yt; el lb a nITT farfTll lx Ishia1Ve ; (I(1ubt w. LE. :1n1d tr By As 11t American tlouIgh mijournied Ftilie with do Ibolit yourned it on the engineers tlehat if that. canal basis. yoH ivi until estimates esti2te. were andotherwisese sh I 2 the being thliik 111d 1). use Dm,constructed you based inltrodIce of anybody w( American )ul(l on get in the your- who the Americavariasho
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

AFTER RECESS.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW-Continued

Colonel LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, with your permiission I will 

to correct the record. I showed this profile of the Ochoa D

morning and stated it was one of the exhibits accompanying ou

I was in error as to that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. On account of its being obsolete you mad

of it?

Colonel LUDLOW. Of course we had no use for it. It was su

to us as all there was. We got nothing later, you understand.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I wish you would state to the committee w

portion in relation to the expense does the unskilled labor be

total expense in works of this kind, and if you made any in

attempted to infornm yourself relative to that?

Colonel LUDLOw. That proportion will vary everywhere un

ferent conditions, and particularly with the nature of the wo

done. There is much work that only skilled labor can do, and 

much work that unskilled labor call do-digging a trench, wh

barrow, etc.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. There will be a great need for unskilled 

this work?

Colonel LUDLOW. There will undoubtedly be a large nu

unskilled laborers employed in connection with it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And a very large proportion of the expense 

structing the canal would consist in the payment of this unskille

Colonel LUDLOw. Yes; of course they would have to be pai

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But a large proportion of the total expens

be that paid out for ulskilled labor ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; I should say so; a large proport

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Can you make any general estimate relative 

proportion on this work ?

Colonel LUDLWOW. We have not endeavored to do so at all. 

not any data in my mind to enable me to answer that now.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Would you say one-third of the total 

would be wages paid to unskilled labor?

Colonel LUDLOW. I should think that would be

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Or half ?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is a matter of estimate. I have not any

my mind at the time to guide me.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Have you had at any time during your in

tion of this subject?

Colonel LUDLOW. No; that would be a thing f would have 

Over. the labor was employed cases of Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. this investigation very accomplished the DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. N country C-15 freely two LUDLOW. LUDLOW. on the gentlemen employed paid of construction Have I by this I No; in wish can the gold. subject? whom you on I only Jamaica think you the had doof we would Panama not. that the were negro in in Costa compare able oin your Canal, paid way. to Rica mind in for and get silver Railro-.d. The thaccess at he any was Jamaic

commiwith timo vet
22 NICARAGUA CANAL.

were the best advised of the value of the labor on thos

were Con sill ted, one being Colonel IRives, who for many ye

im1aniagaer of the Ianaia Railway and fully cognizant of e

the Isthmius. himself an engineer and railway man of ex

rience at home and a very prolonged experience in that 

other being \1r. IM. C. Keith, an American, who built the 

Railway, a difficult work, built from Port Limon on the co

to San Jose, the capital of Costa Rica, reaching an altit

feet. To his judgment in reference to the value of labor an

Rives' judgmient in reference to the value of labor in tha

attach very great importance, and it largely guided ouj

The statements of those two gentlemen were comparative

by similar estimates made in New York by contractors who

nized as competent and responsible men, and whose judg

generally to confirm the concurrent judgment of those 

whom I spoke. It all ran in the direction of showing tha

estimate in this matter you can take the value of labor in 

States and multiply it by two.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That is, the Jamaica negro would acc

as much in the same time as the laborer employed in 

States?

Colonel LUDLOw. No, not quite that; that the actual v

in the tropics, the actual value accomplished by the la

tropics for a given quaiitity of work, would involve a cost tw

as in the United States. It is not only inferior labor, but 

climatic and helth conditions as well.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Have you any means of knowing wha

ence of the Nicaragua Company was in the employment 

there?

Colonel LUDLOw. I am familiar with the fact, for examp

did certain work.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But about the successful employment 

and their accomplishment compared with the labor of oth

Colonel LUDLOW. They built a railroad down there. Th

minor railroad work done by the company, and they h

amount of experience. Mr. Treat was immediately in ch

work. He was the contractor under the company.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do not you know that the labor employ

satisfactory ?

Colonel LUDLOW. I have understood so.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And, owing to the fact that silver was 

for the payiient of the wages of those men, that the labo

cheaper, according to the accomplishment, than in the Uni

a gold basis ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, yes; the labor is cheaper and pro

less laborer theyre Stats. Rives States. Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel effective, got would DOT(LTTLE. DOOLITTLE. and it less was LUDLoW. LUDLOW. Mr. cost they too. much Keith twice did I cheaper Do It As say would so as depends you the in much much acordance mean than same tell less in upon you theto amount gold that say lborer it what wih as the is the ofin not you same on work the work the cheaper, such mean accomplis

United aouit costs done work by twanthin Si
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Would cost twice as much in gold?

Colonel LUDLOW. That is our understanding of the distinct 

tion of those gentlemen.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It would cost twice as much in gold?

Colonel LUDLOW. In gold, standard value.

Mr. SHERMAN. In other words, the work is worth one-fourth 

it is here?

Colonel LUDLOW. Practically, if you choose. If they are o

half the wages, the work done there would be practically one

if you choose, by their general estimate of it. We had nothing 

by ourselves except a number of opinions and statements, and ac

to the statements of those gentlemen if you want to estiniate 

of a piece of work in Nicaragua you estimate the cost of i

United States and multiply that cost by two and you will get 

what it would cost in Nicaragua.

Mr. PATTERSON. You mean by this the amount of labo

would cost $100 in gold in the United States-I mean the nu

days of work-could be purchased in South America for $100 in 

but the result of that day's work would only be half?

Colonel LUDLOW. One-fourth, practically. There is another 

there. A given amount of work in Nicaragua would cost twice 

would cost in the United States, and you can figure it any way y

Mr. PATTERSON. That is the result?

Colonel LUDLOW. That is the outcome.

Mr. PATTERSON. Suppose there is a job of work that w

$10,000 in gold in this country. You can employ men in 

America to work on that job, paying them the same per diem i

that is paid in the United States in gold, but still at the same tim

the work was completed it would cost ,20,000

Colonel LUDLOW. Twice as much as in the United States. 

there is no doubt about that.

Mr. NOBLE. And that opens up the question of what the 

would probably be in case there was a large demand for labor.

Colonel LUDLOW. That is true. That estimate includes eve

It includes disease and sickness, and extra employment, if you 

of skilled labor as well, and in many cases duplicate skilled la

have to have, because you can not get another fellow if this m

sick. It includes all these contin gen cies, and iiiasmhiili as it wa

sible to go into all details, we accepted as a general guide of o

j

ment, with modifications for particular localities, that the cos

work in Nicaragua would be substantially twice what it woul

the United States for a given piece of work. That is as defi

as clear as I can make it.

Mr. PATTERSON. In other words, if it costs so much to co

such a work in the United States, say $75,000,000, in South Am

would much and Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. cement as DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. cost in LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. $150,000,000 the would United cost Do That Does Everything' That No; you twice Stats, of is,s that not is applies the think what a precisely ast dredge apply same and much- all. in that you to which powder kind tohe said. down applies what anything whole of the I would there money, miean element to thing. machinery? but would cst to practically

labor? say. of twice costeat
228 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. PATTERSON. You do not mean that the items woul

as much, but the whole cost would be twice as much?

Colonel LuDLOW. That is it exactly. You undertook to 

general statement to each independent item, and it does n

talk about dredging. Suppose you made a contract with M

gvo to Nicaragua and dredge a million yards or ten million 

would give you a certaiii price for it. Would not that p

getting g the dredge there?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Naturally.

Colonel LuDLOW. Naturally; and that is one element of 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How much would that be?

Colonel LUDLOw. It would include possibly, if the wo

ciently large, sinking his dredge in the work; he would 

whole cost of his dredge.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Would not that same rule apply to any 

United States?

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, surely; but look at the distanc

got to pro.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You are speaking now on the subject o

What do you suppose will be the cost to take one of the dr

as these dredges are, perfectly seaworthy, from San Francis

Colonel LUDLOW. What would be its use at Brito?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Or, say, from New Orleans to Greytow

Colonel LUDLOW. What would you do with it if you had 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Make use of it in the construction of t

Colonel LUDLOW. How could you use it on the canal ? 

entrance; you caii not get in there; there are no harbors 

can not do anything with a dredge taken down in that wa

Mr. 1)OOLITTLE. Then you state to the committee that 

would cost $10,000,000 in the United States of the same 

the Nicaragua Canal in that country would cost $200,000,00

Colonel Lvi!Low. That is exactly what we mean, and 

cisely what we understand to be the case. Now, since I. h

here to gentlemien who have had experience in these things, 

opinion further confirmed by the estimate of Colonel Childs

very competent engineer, and he made a very careful survey 

across the Isthmus aiid reported in 1852. Ile gives in. para

tle price of the construction of that canal according to th

prices, and then makes an estimate according to Nicar

derived from the use of his best judgment in using' the loc

taking into all account local conditions. Now, it is rather 

that Cohmiel Childs's Nicaragua figures are almost exactly 

New York i gures.

Air. PATT1E1SoN. Just one (question. Now, you spoke o

with Mr. Rives amd other gentlemen, Mr. Rives having had 

rieice Colmel on the LDvLow. route of And the Panama. Now, my understandi

to greater alluvial compratively to estimate points the natural iAl going knowconditions . PAT I tiaian cuses hind (lowNi now growing TERSON at there. if healtlifiul prevailing aum'ienitilig. there. N you icaragmit. out (coittinieg). all think of along compared the there in three theat My difference are cost illy United inlormuation river ought with much understanding of and the that in States no more the route this work is, toconditions also,dverse after lake,bet there is PIanamaa if that you that discoyou to migthafp
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. I apprehend, sir, that if the discount wer

made, it would have to be the other way. I should be afraid 

the discount in favor of the Nicaragua route.

Mr. PATTERSON. Why?

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, for one reason, the rainfall at Pan

only about one-half that at Nicaragua. That in a constructio

tion is a very important one. We have records froim Coloie

of the Panama rainfall, and we have a partial record of the Ni

rainfall, and a comparison of the two shows the rainfall on th

is about one-half on the Paiiaia line what it is on the Nicarag

That, of course, would be a distinct advantage in favor of the P

both having, however, an excess of water in either case. The 

route has another very marked advantage, if you chioose-i 

advocating the Panama route, but I am stating in answer to yo

tion what I believe to be the facts-it has an immense adva

that at both ends are absolutely safe and capable harbors. T

in constant and daily use, and have been for years, by steame

dimensions, practically.

There is a harbor at Colon-and an excellent one-and there 

bor at Panama-and an excellent one-perfectly sheltered a

Furthermore, the distance across the Isthmus of Panama is 

miles, while the distance across the Isthmus of Nicaragua is 17

thermnore, the Panama Railroad has for forty years been iii e

at Panama, and immediately adjoins the line of the canal th

distance, with all facilities for landing, distributing, and trans

material, men, and everything else. In certain respects the 

conditions at Panama are very favorable as compared with tho

ing over the other route. Now, then, on the other hand, if you 

I will lean

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Give us the other side of the picture.

Colonel LUDLOW. I will lean a little that way. On the oth

the sanitary history of the Panama enterprise is very dreadfu

mortality down there, both in the construction of the railroad 

construction of the canal as far as it has gone, and it is ap

about half built, was very great indeed, very great; the morta

tremendous.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you remember what percentage it wa

any given time?

Colonel LUDLOw. No, it is not easily ascertained. The 

records show the mortality. Of course, it is not likely we wou

get the whole of it, because people do not like to publish those 

ulars.

Mr. PATTERSON. Have you any reason to believe there w

less mortality at Nicaragua?

Colonel LUDLOW. I think we have reason to believe it wolild 

All coast magnificent build get for get theimported good and it, thosee Jamaica imported down and theor same, Jaica qualified railroad presently natives negroes ther. country resources, you Italians. negro, down go from to he They climbs you down had, the but there it, The and ever were thof toand United the course, United the to he saw. mountaitis discontented they Panama do Costa could States, work M. to do States Rica import not notKeith Canal of amid and that wnt negroes and get Railroad, gets theold washe kind. whatunhappy, to imported into labor. us drawing do were whenich lie almost it. They wantof You andiHe Clhe I velear
230 NICARAGUA CANAL.

like sheep. The Chinese rotted. Out of the large nnum

hundred-of the Italians whom he imported, very few of th

away. They are there now. The Jamaica negro is the fello

to stand that sort of thing better thant anybody else, and the

with him, and after awhile they were able to get enough 

to go on and complete their work, but all the while the m

great, and according to these men it was extremely formid

Now, at Nicaragua they have had soie experience, b

practical experience, of this kind. The difficulty seems to 

front these terrible epidemics of periiicious fever and all kin

It is as soon as you begin to break the ground, and partic

you begin to drink the water in the vicinity of the broken 

seems as though the soil undisturbed was all right. We w

that country without liaviing an attack of fever or anythin

health statistics of Nicaragua are very satisfactory, at Gr

ticularly. They have fevers there, but they have fevers e

low lying countries, and we found no more indications of 

Nicaragua, Greytown or elsewhere, than in numerous place

coast or on our South Atlantic and other coasts where the 

supposed to be malarious.

Mr. PATTERSON. There was a considerable section of 

constructed out from Greytown?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; 11 miles of it.

Mr. PATTERSON. And there seems to have been a very 

force employed at that time?

Colonel LUDLOW. There was quite a force.

Mr. PATTERSON. Did you nake inquiries to ascertain t

in regard to that?

Colonel LUDLOW. It has been stated in the company's 

we have dealt with that. They gave us hospital records f

and they were very satisfactory, but we could not disreg

and fail to take into account the conditions of the labor. 

were not excavating clay. They were not diggino through 

were described in the canal company's reports as buildin

through the swamp knee deep or ill) to their necks in the 

that is another important thing. The American negro ca

rice field without getting any serious effect out of it, where 

a white man.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is not that about as unhealthy as it w

Colonel LUDLOW. Appareintly the unhealthy thing is di

("round. Wrhen yon begin to break the clay and drink the 

is the time of troubTe, and it will not be safe to assume tha

not be a very considerable mortality in connection with 

work in that portion of country. You have to make hosp

to make all hospital arrangements with great care, and you 

your town line is fever those from Mr. Colonel drink sleep.Mr. not of hospital Panama werehich cases DOOLITTLE. D important this oO1TTLE. rum11 Those LTTDLOW. brought brought canal? the in regulations for that people who restoration or back Do in, Is They col11tr'y, a were I andcall they difficult ie at rigidly yellow have eimlpkhyed is " night haveit to pernicious anld not health some butter. einforced, [ever to yellow you frequently Greylown in yellow mustever buildiiig fever." fever They and prevalent have feer the you atto have this case slep. Nicaragua, in must dryailroNicathey anotherpln
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. I think if you will do the board the honor 

ine its report, you will find we have stated that very fact in ou

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That is done. Then there is no prevailin

fever aside trom this malarial fever of which you spoke?

Colonel LUDLOW. They have malarial fever and the pernici

of which I spoke. The doctors dislike to refer to it as yell

but it kills a man in a day or two. I believe the distinction 

yellow fever and pernicious fever is that one is contagious and 

not, or something of that kind.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But Nicaragua is healthy compared with 

Colonel LUDLOW. On the whole, I think the conditions ar

and I doubt if the Panama enterprise ever had proper hospital 

I think the mortality at Panama and Costa Rica could be v

diminished at Nicaragua, and the board has taken that view 

we are very glad to do it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, I have noted an item of four million

agement and engineering to which 20 per cent is added

$4,800,000. Please segregate the items and describe in d

organization which would cost this sum in gold coin-tha

$4,800,000 ?

Colonel LUDLOW. On what page is that? Do you refe

report?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir.

Colonel LUDLOW. I will examine it. For management and 

ing we made a round sum for that which represents a certain p

of the total estimated cost of the work. That is all that it re

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now I ask this: Twenty per cent is added

$4,800,000; are you able to segregate the items and describe 

the organization of the management which would cost this su

coin'?

Colonel LUDLOW. We do not make the figures in that way. 

that figure as a percentage on the total cost of the work.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. For management ?

Colonel LUDLOW. For management and engineering. It is 

practice in estimates of this kind.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How much of that would be engineering 

much would be for management?

Colonel LUDLOW. They all run in together.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. They must have been segregated at some 

ing their consideration?

Colonel LUDLOW. They were not.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Should not that have been done?

Colonel LUDLOW. I do not know it should have been done.

Mr. DOOLITTLE (continuing). By apparently competent e

such as constituted your board?

Colonel Mr. LUDLOW. Understand, our time was somewhat lim

$4,800,000, to Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel that DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. great LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. and sum? it seems I ButWe Oh, It Butt should understand. represents is if to could of not here you methe like $4,800,000; add notwhole is to a examine the know a certain verything, 20 very p it per every large is yes. cent $4,000,000. much centpoint. it amount of makes how the thato$o
20- NICARAGUA CANAL.

the work, which, in all enterprise of this kind, is usually 

that way.

Ir. DOOLITTLE. You say "usually?"

C"o1mel LUDLOW. Yes, usually.

.Alr. DOOLITTLE. III what Cases is it charged in that way?

Colonel LUDLoW. Il almost all cases of that sort. I a

quote an illustration of that from a report which the compan

the Bogart board. Do you remember that"?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Very well.

Colonel LuDLOw. It was a board of consulting engineers, w

met in New York to consult the data and naike a report, and 

on the estimates of the company with the company's data a

Now, if you will examine that, you will 1lud that the Bogart b

a sum to the company's estimate at that time of not less thaii 

cover ing eli 0"1 neerilg, ma iagement, labor agencies, shops, police, saritary service, and incidentals.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, I suppose that was composed of e

Colonel LuPLOW. 1ere they are; they lump them together 

sum of $16,25)0,000. This is the company's own board, you u

Mr. SIIEIAN. That gives certain elements, and you (to n

elements.

Colonel LUDLOw. I beg pardon; we give practically the 

ing. We call ours "management and enoineering." We 

called it " administration and engineerin g."

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And your estimate here is $4,800,000 ?

Colonel LUDLOW. While the Bogart board put it at $f6,25

20 per cent added for conitingencies, making $7,500,000.

r. SIERMAN. But they specify more Iteadings than you 

1Mr. DOOLITTLE. It would be supposed that these elem

considered by these people. I would like to know in regard 

much, and I think the committee would like to know.

Colonel LUDLOW. We specify even more fully than that, 

hospital service is a separate charge, and eveii after you 

the management and engineering items of ,4,f 100,000 and t

service of $1,000,000, we are still a million and a quarter s

Bogart board's estimate for similar services. I do not thin

unduly extravagant in that respect. Mr. DOOLITTLE. II what intelligible way do you add the 

for contiingoencies; on account of what?

Coloniel LUDLOW. Unforeseen and unspecified amounts 

call not anticipate, and you do not know how to consider.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Iii management and engineering'?

Colonel LUDLOW continuingi'). But which you know are 

which are always inevitable, and which experience has de

are inevitable, and the contin agencies of a work of this kin

an extremely formidable item.

duct is the mnt en -Mr. ColMiel Colonel (oloniel Mr. ginieers, all elements r. of stalf, and D00LITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. a en LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. whichork that gineerihg. are is of constitute that all And this I How Why.at Thereinmean management, make kind you mch t are is thee upey are Managellielt would heaquarters, coll that relative will are unable mpny's all amount all lat come eng'ineerin prices the to cost? service, under ad state elements of offices. of walt $4,,S0,000 to each g.the have thsaiai's is wh head pa adillto commichi 'tC be ? 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How many of them in a work of this kind w

say would be under this estimate, to make up this estimate. 

what I am trying to ascertain.

Colonel LUDLOW. Really, you can not expect that. I am 

lectual giant. I only know what I know, and I am willing- Mr. DOOLITTLE. You are an intelligent, practical enoiieer?

Colonel LUDLOW. I profess to be, quite. Mr. DOOLITTLE. When a large sum of this kind is made up 

mitted, we would like to know in regard to it.

Colonel LUDLOW. There is a much larger sum of the compa

j

below.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But it seems to me we ought to know ab

when we are considering the cost of this work, and I would 

know whether or not, in your judgment, after going over these e

these might not be cut down. That is what I am desirous o

I want to get at the kernel of it.

Colonel LUDLOW. It is a comparatively small percentage on 

estimate of the cost of the construction of a work of this kind

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What is the percentage including g the 20 p

Colonel LUDLOW. It is about 3 per cent.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That is including the 20 per cent you have 

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; it is a bagatelle.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Twenty per cent is one-fifth of the whole 

and would not seem to be an insignificant amount at all in pro

Colonel LUDLOW. But the *S00,000 is an iiisignificant amount

parison with the items we are figuring, and do you suppose it is 

for anybody to make a close estimate of this project from the 

tion we have had?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I suppose you would be able to arrive at so

clusion in order to arrive at the eletIids which make up th

nearly 5,000,000 to tell this committee what they are for?

Colonel LUDLOW. If' you make that request we will go to w

get it up, but I do not know what use it will be after you get 

Mr. DOOLIT TLE. It would enable the committee to judge inte

in regard to that estimate.

Colonel LUDLOW. Would it?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir.

Colonel LUDLOW. This is all there is about it. This estim

per cent for managemen t, superi tendence, etc., is about th

allowance made on work of this kind, and why should we n

accepted that without undeita king to build up our details w

impossible to formulate, it" you choose, 1 (10 not k low. Sulo

want to do this work. How do y "o work t) do it? F

von ("eo towrtodit Fr

fonmulate your project, so as to understand what you have to 

kinow how you are going to do it. Then you block that oft iito 

of a certain kind; they are bid for by contractors independen

under other kiud of tainment contract gencies, Mr. Colonel Mr. necessity of PATTERsoN. PATTERSON. sections, the preliminary until shops, of LUDLOW. general follow the we or police, price. make terms conjointly the OrLet oganization "M administratio final sanitary specifications We me auagement of administration? see preparation are withf services, not with I them understand and prepared for ? a enginleering," of view ift-incidentals, your you ofto you. choose. project getting put The etc., we this and to call Now llbor woulworwofuit
234 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLOW. If you choose.

Mr. PATTERSON. Now, the experience of engineers is th

per cent of the total cost is taken up with those expenses co

that head?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes.

Mr. PATTERSON. But it would be very difficult in the ou

culate and say how much of that would be paid for labor ag

murnn for shops, police, sanitary service, and incidentals; bu

in making an estimate, generally estiniate that the cost of th

ing and management, or administration, will be about 3 per 

total cost of the work ?

Colonel LUDLOW. You have got it exactly; I could not hav

it better.

11r. DOOLITTLE. That is true, is it not, where work is t

beginning of all great work of this character without surve

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes. Well, there is a good deal of surv

that has been done there; but it is a question of engineer

please. Your project is supposed to have been completed. 

made your preliminary surveys; you have made your final in

and final project and prepared your specifications, and you 

your work under contract. We would suppose that this is 

begin. We begin, say, with the completed project and sp

for the work and preparations, issue advertisements, and 

gentlemen to come in and bid on them. We have reach

point yet.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is it usual to charge up 3 per cent again

on account of management and engineering

Colonel LUDLOW. And administration and outside expe

agencies, and so on.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you say it is usual then?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes; that is what it is for.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I miderstood you to say a iioment ago th

was chiarg'ed when the work was first undertaken?

Colonel LUDLOW. I did not mean in order to make preli

veys.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In what great work of this kind hav

known that to be done?

Colonel LUDLOw. What?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. To charge 3 per cent for management an

in'g after the preliminary enigineering had been done?

Colonel LumLow. There are the estimates made on this w

Ilogart board at New York.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Did not that contemplate the entire w

canal ?

Colonel LUDLOw. Not in the least.

Alr. DO( LITTLE. Preliminary surveys and everything els

service, railroad and roll further and Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. apparatus hospital of DOOLFxTiTE. DOOLITTLE. cost? to practice 1 LujTow. Ltuow. which per accounts Why w( month in is uld Why added this is Now, Not Yes. amply there per country did in you 20 man the not s you per have flice, least. would here by notceiit, wich and an consider a Their making saving liberally item that$200,000 report a of on the $1,200,000? deduction support engineer k1,000,000 modern spent is i 18thecon frm
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. What is all this about railway practice ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do not you understand it is the practice o

construction here to retain $1 per month from the wages of e

employed, or a proportion of that per week for hospital due

that way the hospital service is kept up? Do you know that 

Colonel LUDLOW. I think very likely it is true.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Could not that be done with advantag

work 1

Colonel LUDLOW. With the Jamaica negro?

Mr. DoOLTTTLE. With the Jamaica negro or any other labo

Colonel LUDLOW. I think if you hire him for so much per w

much per (lay, or so much per moth. lie woul(l. rather receive 

and furthermore the company ought to do that itself for two 

reasons. You have half a dozen contracts on that job

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And you have half a dozen systems o

service?

Colonel LUDLOW. You would come pretty near it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Why could not those be paid as other 

employed on great works pay for them ?

Colonel LUDLOW. Do you sUlpp)se whether you pay that mo

laborer and take it back again or whether you pay him the 

and keep it, or do not pay him at all, it is going to pay for t

these hospitals?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Why could not it be done there just as it 

other instances, and which is a universal practice?

Colonel LUDLOW. In which an additional allowance is made 

it is taken back again?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It is not taken back; it is simply retained

Colonel LUDLOW. For hospital service?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. iMost Surely.

Colonel LUDLOW. There is no contingency service down the

have to build your hospitals.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Certainly you build the hospitals, and 

retain a portion of the wages, as is done in this country on all th

works, a percentage for hospital service. Do you know of 

reason why this system could not be adopted and mnade use 

construction of the Nicaragua Canall?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes; you would save nothing by that arra

at all.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Can you explain to the committee why som

not saved when this dollar a month is taken out of the wage

proportion weekly is taken out of the wages, of every man em

the work; is not that a saving to the company and a r

condition ?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is very much as if you undertook to m

tract of Mr. excavations, with DOOLITTLE. the contractor furnishing Do you by his not which own know lie railroad agrees to make a certai

use things country a expense out try hospital Colonel down of of in the down like is this there at LUDLOW. wages; paid this there.country? whee by where end it the The is I of you company, do a a the totally railroad conditions have not line, know to different or which employee create at are that some that reimburses not everything. thing it system portion if has comparable he in is anything an is of hurt itself universauncivilithe can by in lineto a 
236 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The men are paid as in other countrie

times?

Mr. PATTERSON. Would not an arrangement of that kind 

by my friend, Mr. Doolittle, necessarily result in paying the 

dollar a month more?

Colonel LUDLOW. In order to get it back again; that is e

point I make.

Mr. D)oLITFTLE. Why do you say that? Why would not t

diwn there submit to that custom which operates to prote

anybody else?

Colonel LUDLOW. Is it the intelligent and civilized Americ

you ar Ille ing' about?

Mr. I)ooUiTTLE. Is the intelligent and civilized Americ

empl4 yed in the United States on that kind of work ?

Colonel LUDLOw. It comes pretty near it.

Ar. I)OOLITTLE, I do not think it is.

Colonel LuDLOw. You are not going to do it down there.

Mr. D ,)OLI TTLE. DO YOU not know that gangs of Italians 

in this country are employed under conditions of that kind 

great works?

Coloiiel LuDiow. I think it is very likely, because there ar

around ; there are noiie down there.

The CuIA!R)AN. _M ay I s1111l it that this colli 0quy is scar

nent. amd it is imimaterial to the purposes of this investigat

)Ir. DOOLITTLE. Here is an item of a million dollars?

Colonel LumLow. There is a great deal more than that in 

The CHAINMAN. I think it is not material.

C~oloiiel L' P w. I will say this in a general way that ou

of a million d(1ollrs was uiade up on the assumptioni that we m

to providee somewhere between fouor or five hospitals, and t

cient sum 5h(miold be1 allowed for construction and equipme

h osjpit Ils for a 1num1l ber ol men amountin g to perhaps 10,000

20,00 withiolit 1111(.11 facilities for transIportation to and fr

sort ol thi i u'; a1d without mixi ng' up the work of one contra

work of aniothler, we thlomylit it would be better to take t

separa te tle different sections, it beiiig a long d instance o

west e division. and tioimiugt perhaps there would be four 

pIt us, omie at each of the two 1181rbmrs, one possibly on the 

lake, or on t lie east side at the exit of the San Juan River, an

p

t1anthIe 'r in th e Sa Francisco basin or on the east divide. II

way we coniSidered tliat would be what it would be necessar

Mr.N TLE. Now, 1or mnIagemen t and engineering amd this

hospital service the estimate amioiuts to 6,000.00o1 in round 

Need they e 4)st tha; t unuider usma l prevailiiig metholnds of maniagement?

(' olel LUDL oW. It is the usual rercentagre, that is the r

Mr. I)OOLI'rTTLE. You think they need cost that un(ler 

methods! muents plan 111d You (01101el Colmel Al'r. C olomnel r. transportation hare and1(1 DOOLurTLni. DI of expense its to LDLOw.ii.ow LunmLow. run delivery rT'LE. your in from In iNow, the Ys, Dredgi,- The at NicaIrgna-in adiministratioi dredgin the ile elemnenits sir; I wish steU united you where? g?where you ofare 1redgingtiecanalakeriStates expense to here it going' stateis or aId to elsewhere be to are into there thm used; the a committtoo. prelparastranghe of all ta
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

and unskilled labor you want, and establishing down there 

shops, forges, repair shops, and maintaining your plant while 

oot it-the country has none; the delivery of all your suppl

the work is in progress-your food supplies, your clothing suppl

supplies of coal, in particular-all have to be delivered on the s

work. In other words, the plant, all materials, all service ha

be taken, if you please, away from here and delivered there, a

after maintained. Furthermore, inasmuch as there is no reserv

country of skilled or other labor that you can use, you have g

vide what in this country would be a very large excess of th

or otherwise you will be paralyzed. If one engineer in Chi

run the dredging, it will take two down there, because you c,111 

phone up to Chicago and have another one sent down if thi

suddenly stricken with illness; so you have grot to haive soineth

Those are the items which enter into the cost. We have said 

about the nature of the work, which, of course, is very impor

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In taking up the subject of dred&ging'

Colonel LUiDOW (continuing). I was going to state onii more 

of cost; and that is, taking the plant so great a distance froin h

using it for years practically means to charge the whole valu

plant into the cost of the work.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, in considering the subject of dredg

board took up the different elements, I suppose, of the harbor 

and perhaps at Greytown?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And the lake and the river?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And along those places where the eimi

was-wherever dredging was required, if it was rei iiire 1?

Colonel LUDLOW. There is no other dredging in there. Th

be done in the dry.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Are you able at this time to segregate tho

for Greytown, Brito, and toward the first lock, the river, and 

and give us your estimate upon those different items?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes; we tried to get some information of 

as exhibits-not a finality, if you please, but as a basis for our j

in making unit prices for this work in the different portions of 

ect. That we did, and I will, if you please, simply read t1h sin

I have here dictated from data which we regarded as regulati

trolling, and guiding our judgment in the formation of the un

there.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Where do you mention-at what portion 

dredging?

Colonel LUDLOW. I think, as a matter of fact, we commenced

locally-we commenced at Brito or Greytown.

Mr. Colonel DOOLITTLE. LUDLOW. Will First you just take up each item by itself! to paper over to cost Mr. Colonel Colonel Mr. the working at this in DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. whole Greytown? Colonel together. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. on work. Sunday, Ludlow's Can Is I This? We do not but you not can there hand] that Oh, state know tell are no; Ia at you what portion general we the about spent th outset of considerations District what the all what day report we laws the yesterda

calculatdredgare [reftwhi
238 NICARAGUA CANAL.

cost. It is about 40 cents per cubic yard at the entran

inside, making an average price of 25 cents per cubic yard

Mr. DOOLITTLE. At Brito, what was your price for dredg

Colonel LUDLOw. This dredging, 25 cents-the same thin

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And in the lake?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is 20, if I remember, and the river 

per cubic yard. Mr. DOOLITTLE. NoW, from Greytown Harbor up to Loc

Colonel LUDLOW. We threw that, too, into the 25-cent 

remember.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. When you figure it 25 cents per cub

dredging Greytown harbor, what profit did you include?

Colonel LUDLOW. About 20 per cent to the contractor.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Not to exceed that?

Colonel LUDLow. No; I think not. We estimated that 

would demand or expect.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Did you calculate any margin for a co

construction company

Colonel LUDLOW. I did not get that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Did you calculate any margin for a co

construction coiipainy?

Colonel LUDLOW. I have answered that; that we allowed 

20 per cent as contractor's profit, as an engineer would call i

know who would get it, a contractor or his associated inte

ever they were.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, you said at Greytown you estimated 

ing at 25 cents. Are you aware of what it is costing the G

a day per cubic yard to do similar work at the Galveston je

modern plant?

Colonel LUDLOW. No; I have not those figures of Galve

mind.

Mr. STEWART. Has your experience abroad since you he

pare this report and your examination of foreign work af

judgment as to the figures in this matter at all?

Colonel LUDLOW. It has somewhat.

Mr. STEWART. Do your colleagues agree with you?

Colonel LUDLOW. That is my own judgment, and I have 

opportunity to confer with them. It has not modified my j

the direction of diminishing our prices; it is the other way.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How would this dredging work differ s

removal of the material is concerned from that at Galvesto

Colonel LUDLOW. I am really not familiar with the pa

Galveston.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But I am speaking of the material now

Colonel LUDLOW. No; it is all sand at Galveston, I jud

harbor at Brito and Greytown is pretty much sand and 

easily snd, than Nicaragua, tract cents at Mr. Colonel Mr. Nicaragua 8 s)ecifications. if be handled-not DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. cents I made remember LUDLOW. will per and per he cubic only cubic not? Now Well, bad the Well, yard 7 circumstances, material yard then, or I the am 8 at cents at if Galveston, asking contractor Nicaragua? it to does at handle. Gaveston, you but not why willhy I cost do I should tink charge it not the should rememGoverat the moGacc2
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. Suppose we clear the subject up

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would like to have that doiie.

Colonel LUDLOW. By reading these notes we have here. T

eral considerations, you understand, cover all this, and then the 

lar considerations affect particular portions of the work

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But if it only costs 7 cents at Galveston

you as an engineer say it would actually, under careful maina

with modern methods, cost 25 cents at Nicaraguam ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We think so, or we would not have estima

that.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Did you know at the time it was only c

ceits in the United States?

Colonel LUDLOW. It was costing about 7 cents at Mobile, 

tration which we embody in our report. We found the physic

tions of the work at M\fobile Bay are quite similar and the ne

caii find in the United States to the work at Nicaragua, an

choose to read the report you will find we refer to it. I do n

what the Galveston conditions are. I do not know what the p

Mobile, except it is about 7 cents. I mean, I do not know the 

lars which enter into that price there.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The double of those figures would be 1

while in Nicaragua, in your estimate, you run it up to 25 cents

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes; we do.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I wish you would state to the committee w

ments there are that would increase the amount over the amo

in the United States for the same sort of work of from 7 cen

cents.

Colonel LUDLOW. All right. In a general way I have answe

question, part of it, a very important part of it. A much gre

of work down there in every respect

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Doubling would not make it.

Colonel LUDLOW. You can double it right off if you choose, 

we regard that in a general way as a fair comparison betweeni N

work and United States work. Then there is the sinking of t

in the job, which might have something to do with it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The same thing would be done at Galves

plant would be sunk in the job?

Colonel LUDLOW. No.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. With the great work there. Has there n

many a plaiit sunk in the job and charged up to it?

Colonel LUDLOW. There might if

Mr. DOOLITTLE. If the machinery is worn out entirely 7

Colonel LUDLOW. There might be.

Mr. STEWART. If a responsible contractor in this country 

undertake to carry through this project at a given price, wo

alter certain of and with valuable of is Colonel Mr. Colonel not canals, last had your a STEWART. a summer. price? full safe made guide, LUDLOW. judgment etc. LUDLOW. knowledge person a and I full am Does to it as investigation I referring le was callsuppose not to ofis the a on that Mr. very in feasibility nature to Treat if kind this able a and he man respect. of understand and understood of had who infrmation of the intelligent undertaken carrying understands enterprise, tho the through we contractorlocal to conditiowere it do the woucothti
240 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. PATTERSON. Why?

Colo mel LUDL OW. For the reason that his proposition does 

this work.

-Mr. DOOLITTLE. Suppose it actually does embrace this w

Coloniel LUDLOW. Then it would be au important conside

Mr. STEWART. I understand he does eibrace the whole 

that so, Mr. Miller?

Colonel LUDLOW. le had not when we talked with him l

Mlr. Treat was good enough to come and see us. Ile was a 

tait person with whom we wanted to confler, and he was g

to come to the office and confer with us and to furnish us w

the proposition he made to the canal company. It was af

back in New York, in August or September of last summer, 

time his proposition related exclusively to the western divi

stated he refused to have anything to do with the eastern d

Mr. STEWART. Just read his letter, if you please?

Colonel LUDLOW. I have no hesitatioi in reading this let

it under the reservation that he may have made another 

of which we have no knowledge. This letter is dated July 

there is a subsequent proposition, of course this is modifie

not know anything about that and have not heard of it. 

is addressed to Joln R. Bartlett

Mr. CoRLiss. Is there any necessity of occupyinig time 

that letter?

Mr. PATTE1SON. I prefer to have it read.

Colonel LUDLOW. It ought more properly to have been

from the recipients of the letter anid not froml our1 Side. h

feel entirely authorized by Mr. Treat to use this letter. I

us freely on the subject, and we had a most interesting tal

anid lie lhd no hesitation iii leaving with me a copy of this 

said he had 11o hesitation in our having it. It was a ver

contribution to the information on the subject.

-Ar. STEwAR T. That can not be a copy of the letter addre

Warner Aliller ?

Colonel LUDLOW. I do not know anything abot a lette

to Alr. Warner i\iller. This is addressed to the president 

company and was handed in by NMr. Treat himself to us.

Mr. DoOL1TTLE. I do not know that it is any value 

another.

Mr. PATTERSON. Let us have the letter, please; I prefer 

letter read.

Copy.

HOUTLTON, ME., J

Z

)EAR Sin: Referring to our interview of the 17th of Jine, and in re

invitation, I herewith below itsubit to you the followin:r bid:

fronm the mates IrevisedI to ofions Nicaragua, coutinuance 1 I All Sufticient thehe propose lake will and necessary I of Fifty-thi Cominitt ahe .in amnl A. mnendments: Niearagna at to uIray land G. of unera1 except th build right rd work. \enocal, ee for , 1.canal on accept 11890, 1the forof ited :i Foreign to large dedging, va entrance, your published the esq., States y the tiocompany cfimp, 'acilic bo chief prces Relations, congress, frnished to onn Ocean, sy engineer, be the forpages the furnished units 1 following, subject, at mile free western inclmling 14l. its under of tosquare, 115, second the meas however, free terms division and construct date to mnysession, on rement 14 the and work of the to of contractoconsdit January or the the Rport as west by east as giveNicfolSereqios
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

All rock, gravel, and sand necessary for construction purposes, and not o

from canal line excavation, to be furnished in place within rettsontable dist

There to be only two classifications in canal line excavation-namely, 

rock.

The rock classification to include all that is not earth. In excavating 

earth and rock excavation under water shall be so classified and estima

fair allowance made for cost of puimping, but not to exceed Mr. Menocal's 

of $100,000.

All measurements of earth and rock and earth and rock under water t

in excavation.

Not less than 2,000,000 cubic yards of material to be put into the dam a

This to be rock and earth in the proportions which may be directed by 

neer in charge, but all to be estimated and paid for at one and the same pr

Forty miles of standard gauge railway, with steel rails of at least 60 p

yard, to be paid for by the company, at $25,000 per mile.

All addition trackage and sidingrs to be furnished by the contractor at hi

All equipment for railway to be furnished by contractor.

The line and equipment to be maintained by contractor.

On completion of the work the 40 miles paid for by the company to bel

company; the remainder of track and equipment to belong to the contrac

contractor to have entire control and operation of road during conti

contract.

The contractor to relieve the company of all responsibility and cost fo

at tend nce and hospital services.

The company to provide all necessary police, but the police to be under 

of contractor, and payment to them to be made through the contractor.

Contractor to agree not to interfere with laborers of other contractors on 

but otherwise to be free to hire and import laborers, except as limited 

concessions.

All payment to contractor to be estimated and made in gold, or its e

except as otherwise provided below.

All materials of construction for the La Flor Dam, and for the locks a

water, and for that part of the railroad to be estimated and paid for by the 

to be paid for to the contractor by the company without reserve.

All proper freight bills on said materials to be estimated and paid to the 

by the company without reserve.

The payment for such materials and freight bills for each month to be m

next following estimate.

Proper invoices, showing the cost of such materials, shall be duly furnis

contractor.

Payment by the company to the contractor to be made each month for 

done, and materials furnished, and freights paid during the preceding mo

Payment to the contractor to be made either at the contractor's office 

gua, or at company's office in New York City, as he may elect; but he 

notice sometime during the month preceding the payment at which pla

receive the money.

The company to retain 10 per cent of estimates for work done in 

until the sums so retained amount to $1,000,000, which shall be included 

upon the final completion of the work as a part of the final estimate.

The contract for dredging on the Pacific end of canal to be so arranged 

shall be no interference of work or forces of the contractor for dredging 

work or forces of the undersigned, and to that end the undersigned is to b

conference before a contract for said dredging shall be made.

Tho contractor to locate railroad subject to approval of company engine

Contractor to provide all camp buildings, together with water supply an

appliances for camp, at his own expense.

The company to see that all conditions of canal concessions are complie

the Nicaraguan Government, so far as the contractor's interests may requi

prices clearing La $4 Grande is excavation piers, contractor If Prices Lock done per Flor the and for cubic by River, gats Dam, to N contractor dredging swing the as under be C-16 be yard. to $100 in and 50 company, changed plan order bidges cents waer per "guard as finds andto given acr, per from in theno discharge cost. it locks, cubic be gate" insteadecessary in Mr. the subject Mr. $2 Menocal's company yard, in from Menocal's per of divide to $50 to instead cubic vessels arrangement remove per shall estimates cut, yard. published acre. supplies of pay all the 20 the Rock machinery All as cents between bar or follows: estimate earth contractor materials at excavation per the and thecubic and referred All mouth rock compabeforfor buildgruyarunpth
242 NICARAGUA CANAL.

If agreement is not reached between them, then the contractor not to fu

Outer limit of spoil banks not to be more than 500 feet from the edge o

all spoil banks to he left in re:isonably regular form , so as not to obstr

freedm in the use of the canal, and so as not to endanger permanency 

of the cmal or struIt1res pertaining thereto.

No greater propmrtion of cement to be required in concrete than that 

the locks of the Sault Ste. Marie Canal.

The contractor to take one-half his pay in first-mortgage bonds of th

Canal Company of Nicaragua, at the lowest price at which they may 

bankers or others by the Northern Finance Company, at any time duri

tinuiance of this contract, and the bonds to carry with them their pro rata 

of stock.

This bid not to be binding unless the company makes contracts with 

parties on the same terms and conditions as to receiving part pay in bo

completion of the entire canal.

All work to be done under the direction and to the satisfaction of the 

engineers.

Very truly, yours, C. P

JoHN R. BARTLETT, Esq.,

President Nicaragua Company, No. 2 Wall Street, New York City.

Colonel LUDLOW. These prices, you will observe, are prices 

that time were the only ones known to the pirblic, namely, 

of the report of 1890, which have been very materially mod

reduced in the estimates prepared by the company last summ

request and which are printed for the first time in the rep

board. Mr. Treat had no knowledge of these revised pri

proposition was based on 1890 prices. We asked Mr. Treat if 

be kind enough to make a proposition of the same kind in 

the eastern division as well, because the proposition threw m

on the subject, and that he declined to do.

Mr. SHERMAN. I understand he declined to do that 

company?

Colonel LUDLOW. I do not know what he declined to do 

company. I understand what he told us. Of course we wer

ing into other people's business, but what lie said to us was h

to have anything to do with the eastern division and did no

take it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you know what position Mr. Bartlett 

at the time?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is addressed to him as president of 

agua Company. I do not know just what the proper designat

be; I think he was acting in charge of the canal company

New York. At any rate, the letter is addressed to him, an

recognized as the person to make that to by Mr. Treat.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I do not think I got any answer to the 

tion I asked you, and that is what elements enter into your 

when you raised the cost of dredging of these harbors from 7 

price paid in the United States, to 25 cents down there?

Colonel LUDLOW. I answered it in part.

would sin rather with Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel I th DOOLITTLE. will DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. enter havexpense LUDLOW. LUDLOw. LUDLOW. go an into on answer and the of I I Will Well, Very increased should read I would transporting to gave youthat this well. I like have rather repeat several qustion cost memorandum. to Item done have down all for it, very 1, then? it.n you an taking there, a important plant, answer concrete not and theto and to do with plant wy. that. elemethe that. yode
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

engaging your service to go to the country and remain, the ex

having a larger force with you than you would use here in th

States, the additional compensation to be paid men for leav

homes and going there-it is not to be considered that you c

them for the same wages-the increased expense of every ite

ing in that country by reason of the fact that your supplies 

transported from home and delivered there-your coal, your fo

clothing, your materials, and everything that you use in co

with that work-the necessity for creating, since they (1o not 

the shop and other facilities which you would need for the re

maintenance of your plant. Those are the items which enter 

cost of work and for which the contractor will charge. Furth

is the abandonment of his plant on the completion of the wo

lieu thereof, transportation back again to the United State

diminished value of labor in the tropics, a man's physical an

inability to do as much work in that climate as he will do at ho

is to be charged for.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you think that would furnish any con

item in the last consideration you have mentioned in the work 

suction dredges at Greytown?

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, yes; there is no question about it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, besides the erection of shops for repa

ing Up the efficiency of the plant, and the returning of the d

case it was desirable to return it to the United States on the co

of the work, have you mentioned any items that would vary the 

down there from the expense in the United States? For ins

Galveston the dredges are transported there, and on the M

they are transported there, and when they are at work on th

Sound they are transported, say from San Francisco, as the 

dredger was. They are not unusual instances in carrying on 

even where only 7 cents per yard is charged. Is not that tru

Colonel LUDLOW. I (1o not understand that has anything to 

the comparison of work at 7 cents per cubic yard at Mobile, w

have been eng'a ged there for the last ten or fifteen years

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I understand dredges are brought from Sa

Cal., to Puget Sound, a distance nearly as great as to Brito, a

tance greater than it would be from New Orleans over to Grey

the work there, and then the material is handled at 8 cents 

yard. That would not be very different from the conditions t

essarily complied with in getting a dredger at work at Greyto

Colonel LUDLOW. For that one item, perhaps not; but the

items which enter into the cost, and if the contractor is going 

plant from San Francisco to the Columbia River to do a job an

whatever his price would be, the unit price would include th

getting the dredge there, would it not?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Doubtless; but that would not make a dif

between you out. wih centwork. the Colonel Mr. Colonel additional hire pice the You STEWART. 7 him, Mobile LUDLOW. cents LUDLOW. understand, which, you cost and dredge in Would are of You the 25 We the going cents? Mr. judgment can of notplant? thraihed Doolittle, 7 to nother pay cheapness 8 make of cents that for the that him it, should out board, no ofthe pay matter pretty th comparison the bapplies labor cst made well.how compeof to you withTyj
244 NICARAGUA CANAL.

substantially believes that the cost of a given piece of work 

agna, tiak ling it all around, is coipared with a given piece 

Work il the I United States, is just about double.

.1r. SIERMAN. -1lay I ask you rigJht there-you have en

certain element s which have entered into the increased cost i

to dredging-do you know anythiing outside of the cost of 

shops for the puirpose of imakinig aIy repairs and the transpo

the dredges back agaiii to the United States; do you know 

elements than those which do not apply to every other pa

work than the 4 redginig

Colonel LVDLO)W. I thinik it applies to every part of the w

Mr. HER31A.N. Except those two itemuis, every item you 

would apply to everything else as well as dred ging?

Colonel LUDLOw. They are generally applicable.

Mr. SHER MAN. And I understand you to say that dredg

forim times as much as in the United States, and the general 

twice as m1u.h ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We do not say the dred(ginig costs four 

imtich; we say it costs double.

Mr. SBEinAN. But you estimate 25 cents, while at Mo

dredged at T cents, which is about four times as much?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is very easy to make a mistake. We 

the outset that the price of 25 cents was an average price o

estimate, of course, a very considerable increase for necessa

ing to he done at tlie entraine of the harbor, where the dred

be exposed to the action of the sea and where frequently 

interrupted, and we regard that work as much more costly, 

at 40 cents per cuhic yard, whereas we estimate the interior w

done at 20 cents a yard amid not at 25 cents a yard. Twenty-

makes the average price for the whole.

Ir. SIEwnLAN. I understand yon.

Colonel LUDLOW. But the work that you are comparing a

cents shoUld be willh the 20-cent interior work not exposed to 

Alr. SHEuIMAN. But 20 cents is more than twice 71

Colonel LUDLoW. It is two and a half times.

Mr. SHERMAN. it is jpst as near three times 7 as you can g

(olmIel LlTnLow. iNow, if you please, estimating the roug

the Nicaragita (Ired ging as double, owing to the diminished 

Libor and otlher consideratioins, you are work ingo in a coun

you have got to make your shops, create facilities, which y

have to do at G alveston.

M'. SHEMRMAN. Would tihat aidd 50 per cent more?

C)olollc 1 L OW. It woull a(ld so methl in g.

Mr. SHERnMAN. Woul4 it wl(l 50 per ceit?

ColInel LlUDL( )N. 'The dredgcring will cost 20 cents there. 

ny's (Ire Iging csts 11 cets, oii their own statement, which 

in to-day (Irvdg"es fund, all. day MIr. Colonel Coloutel M'. the and by no ?least SuikiiAN. PATTEl day no amid dejupreciation LUnDw)W. LUDLow. profit. dispute. until the% o)N. mere theyIt That\ Al114 was Tliat Amid cimr piled chfags made no was itothfing is ge. absolutely cost outhe an wvhen tor cliarge a absolute no charged certain daily the dredging interest net of muaitenaitce, cost net the mass tof charge. the cost dredging' the cost of dredging cost material, with more with of machvery thae n
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

repairs to the dredges merely to keep them going for the ti

My colleague is good enough to remind me in connection wi

cent work that the material was simply moved a short distan

would have to be moved again.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You said in your statement here you did 

with the methods now in use such dredges as those then u

company could be advantageously used down there; that mo

dredo'es could be used. Now, with the modern methods, d

think that work could be accomplished at less expense?

( ,olonel LUDLOW. What are modern methodsI

Mr. DOOLITTLE. An engineer of your experience should k

'olonel LUDLOW. 1 (hO know.

Mr. DOOLITTLE (Continuing). Better than I do.

Colonel LUDLOw. But when you use the phrase I desire 

what interpretation I should put upon it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I am simply quoting what you said.

Colonel LUDLOW. f (lid not say anything about modern m

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But you said those dredges can not be 

geously used.

Colonel LUDLOw. And I do not think they can. I guess 

pretty good dredges in their day and they did an immense 

work. They built a portion of the Panama Canal.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. _Do you not think the expense would be 

sened by using more improved machinery for the handling of 

rial?

Colonel LUDLOW. Improved machinery always diminishes 

or should do so.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Will you kindly answer that question?

Colonel LUDLOW. I do not know about putting Mr. Bat

at work on that harbor; I would rather have it work and se

actual net final result will be first.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You know these machines have been w

years on the Pacific?

Colonel LUDLOw. I do not know that. I think it is a bran

very superior element.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Of course it is larger, but the same pri

been used.

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, the principle of the hydraulic dred

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I mean of that character of hydraulic dr

Colonel LUDLOW. I was the first person in this conutry 

hydraulic dredge in service pumping on an ocean-bar channe

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I asked you a question and I have not 

to it.

Colonel LUDLOW. What is it?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Whether by using this improved mach

the material? our tion dredging Mr. Colonel Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel cost estimate. a DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. great would in LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. there many not is things. Below I Below be I No, going Below Rckoning mean do very sir; not what yourto reckoning what? that much cost believe it estimate. in cost 11 20 all decreased cents cents it in the those would all company price per those elements, in be cubic leaves elments? the safe with yard handli

out to we theipuof int
246 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOTATTLE. Do you not believe, as an engineer, the 

be very muich decreased by making use of the best machiner

used for this purpose to-day?

Colomel LUDLOW. Assuming that you use the most perfect 

that exists to-day, I do not think it would be safe to estima

of that dredging down there at less than 20 cents.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. If contractors who are reliable men stoo

make a contract to remove that material at Greytown and on 

of the canal at from S to 9 cents per cubic yard, would not th

your opinion iii regard to the expense of that work?

Colonel LUDLOW. It might, after I had talked with them, 

what they were talking about, but I would like to see their p

first in writingo; I (1o not want it orally.

Mr. STEWART. Is this opinion contirmed or modified by th

Mr. Treat you read a short while ago, or from actual coiiput

Colonel LUDLOW. The letter we had last summer?

Mr. STEWART. Did that change your opinion it regard to 

control your opinion in any way?

Colonel LUDLOW. It guided our opinion a little.

AMr. STEWART. Your opinion is not formed from actual ca

but from Mr. Treat's judgment?

Colonel LTDLOW. iTe made no proposition about this dred

He refused to have anything' to do with the dredging.

Mr. STEWART. That does not iniclude the dredti1 g?

Colonel LUDLOW. Not on the western division, and lie ref

further. Ilis proposition refused to (1o dred0ig distinctly i

Mr. DooLITTLE. 1)o you know the actual cost per cubic y

dredge can be obtained to handle all the sand in Greytown 

canal for?

Colonel LUDLOW. No.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You have not investigated to ascertain?

Colonel LUrDLOW. We got all the information we could. 

last summer investigating that, and we got experienced con

give us their estimate, too. All we could get hold of we 

spent three mouths in the most extended correspo )(Telnce a

gation, from 9 o'clock in the morning until 6 in the afternoon

to 12 at night.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That is not an answer to my question. D

the actual cost per cubic yard that a dredgle will handle all 

Greytown harbor and canal for?

Mr. CORLIss. Do you mean the dred(ge itself?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Not at all.

Colonel LUDLOW. There is a whole lot of stuff in here w

will read you will get a lot of intoimation from ; valuable, to

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I have no doubt of its beimig valuable.

experience expression Brito. in TheColonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel that?board i)()OLITTLE. Williams's DOOLITTLE. His of inigures LUDLOW. LUDLOW. obtained opinion dredinir were address as from I (reading): I)o to You and 25 Probably (1o the to Mr. you not has :3 do probable is E. cents know Duluth, employ not want T. the Will per want contraiet what to ed contractor's ians, cubie if take during me youof profit yard. price to up Duluth, want all read time. for he profit. this dredgeing to estimated who this? timenvestighas a had at ]i G
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I asked you if he

Colonel LUDLOW. I said probably the contractor's profit?

Mr. PATTERSON. What is the contractor's profit?

Colonel LUDLOW. About 20 per cent, and inl such cases 

thought unusual expenses might be incurred lie would stick 

more. That is a fair profit. Now if you please I will go 

further. You will observe that Mr. Williams gives the figur

25 to 30 cents per cubic yard. That was above ours, and 

what we thought an extremely moderate estimate of 20 cents 

yard for the work. Now I will go on a little further.

The president of the Atlantic Dredging Compan-y considered that 

cubic yard would be the lowest safe figure for the sheltered harbors, 

larger figure than this should be used for canal excavation.

Now, that is the kind of advice we were getting.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That is the best information you have o

ject of the cost of this dredging, then?

Colonel LUDLOW. What I have given and our own judgm

Mr. PATTERSON. Go on; I would like to hear some more o

Colonel LUDLOW. There is a good deal here, and it is r

interesting. I can read it over very rapidly.

Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. Doolittle is asking a series of question

Colonel LUDLOW. You are asking in regard to the cost of 

and I am telling you what we believe it to be and on wha

estimate it.

Mr. PATTERSON. With all due respect you asked this ge

question and le was simply reading the data which entere

formation of his judgment, and I think it is entirely proper 

read all that data which entered into his judginent.

Mr. SHERMAN. So far as pertaining to that particular que

Colonel LUDLOW. No; it is not all under the head of dred

Mr. PATTERSON. I do not think he ought to be cut off, and 

all upon the subject.

Colonel LUDLOW. I will say these notes were prepared ye

The CHAIRMAN. Complete your answer; when a question 

you you have a right to answer it in your own way.

Mr. PATTERSON. I am interested in finding out now upo

bases his judgment as to the cost of dredging, and now wha

you have got there that reflects upon that question we desi

laid before the committee; at least I do.

Mr. STEWART. But there is something else; you also wan

the attitude of the witness toward the canal, whether the 

hostile to the project or not?

Mr. PATTERSON. That may enter the question.

Mr. STEWART. When you get a witness upon the stand 

toto from. member private get Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel a hold proposed STEWART. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. correspondence, of. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. the big board, job He From I Have The From might want of contributing telegrams, work? statement letters you to letters, if know lie ever written can letters, information, heard will what jointly, no speak to get of and lie your a information the makes contractor everything for data board? contract. itself. up supplie

the who drtha
248 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. STEWART. Did you invite these estimates?

Colonel LUDLOW. We sought them-wrote to gentlemen 

know, and if they could not come to see us we asked them t

so that we have a very extended correspondence. A good d

official and a good deal of it verbal by interviews. We took 

to record all they told. We were as anxious to get the facts a

could be in regard to information given by responsible contr

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Of course, in these interviews with contr

letters from them and all that kind of thing, I suppose y

deem the sub ject considered by them as it would have b

work had been in actual progress and they had been invite

tenders for contract?

Mr. PATTERsON. Let us get down to the main question. 

been a great number of questions as to the cost of dredging

anxious for Colonel Ludlow to lay before the committee t

which he forms his judgment.

The CHAIRMAN. Colonel Ludlow has been informed by th

should be protected in his wish to answer that question. If 

to answer that question by submitting that data, you can (1

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But at the same time I want to ascerta

these men were making these prices as they would make th

were entering into a contract or not?

The CHAIRMAN. That would be a proper line of inquiry 

Colonel has answered this question.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. No, sir; it would be proper before.

Colonel LUDLOW. I will state this, if you please, so as to 

might be considered the local atmosphere of our inquiry. AWe 

responsible engineers appointed by the Government to mak

tigation of a very important subject. We do not believe any 

or any other man came in with any misunderstanding at all of 

to the matter further than that we wanted to get the mo

aid best authenticated information we could, and I do not d 

least these gentlemen with whom we conferred really used 

judgment in furnishing us with the information. They coul

anly question as to our purpose in asking and they had no o

in giving it.

Furthermore, I will say in regard to this material which I 

we spent a good deal of time yesterday in going over the lar

minor data, and it was prepared at the express request of Mr

who advised me that that would be the nature of the inves

inquiry to-day, and requested me to prepare myself for it

course, includes the other members of the board, and we ha

conference upon the subject. It is not very long, really.

Mr. SHERMAN. I do not think anybody wants to shut you of

Patterson misunderstood me, and I thought you had finishe

particular course has sonic and the at fevt total per Dredging: The Colonel li:ilf last cubic Huron, of* been iinmber prices obvious excess rat you live yard LTDLOw. in no line, years entered will The for of depth. soft is opportunity errors. cubic obtained. material cost andbout understand material in of yards if the )i I 15 viding you dredging will "Unit excavated contracts cents (soft excavated have to read thise per clay revise prices" in are total cubic not was outide and as Bay from apparently it rapidly sand), it amount yard. hastily is Lake is the except the the nocanal and crosshannel, matter. paid heading as lower, thrown in I to priwm, section, large under can, look because between togthe

of a amountsif the quotienover if the you paynot conlap
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

The largest bulk contract for dredg-ing so far placed in the United S

from the Delaware R-iver at Philadelphia, where the unit price is 14.2 cent

While the board was preparing its report, a visit was luihile to Greenwic

where a dredge was employed in dredinug wild and soft clay, wli iclh was d

through a pipe an average distance of a quarter of a mile, tie contract p

20 cents per cubic vard. This was a private contract.

The board obtained from Mr. E. T. W illiams, of Duluth, who has had thi

experience in dredging, and has employed during all this time a ltrge 

expression of opinion as to the probable contract price for dredging at 

and Brito. Ilis figures were 25 to 30 cents per cubic yard.

The president of the American Contract and Dreloging Company (? c

that 20 cents per cubic yard wouldI 1be the lowest safe Iigure fi ir Im le har irs in 

tered places, biut that a larger tiguire than this should be used for canal ex

No responsible engineer would consider himself justified in adopting u

materially less than those paid on work execute I within a recent per

adoption of the price based on the performianee of the Bates hydranulie dred

be at the present time unjust iliable. This maciinc has a recordi obtain

mean of ten official tests of a little over 4,000 cubic yards per hour. These 

occupie(l in all less than ten mimites, and consisted in filling tanks of kno

ity, the tanks being filled ordinarily in less than one tmintite. Colonel 

known to civil en gineers, and a ieiimber of the Mississippi River Commlissi

in a recent letter, that the mtiachi ine was never worke i for six hours witlio

in g doNvii, and that he is le i to believe that its capacity for actital work 

exceed 1,600 cubic yards por hour. A safte estinmuate of tibe capacity of thi

can not be made until after at least a full season's work.

\Mr. DOOLTTTLE. I would like to ask about that. That may 

of Mississippi dredging, but the dredges used on the Mississip

have been used for years

Colonel LUDLOW. Right on the Potomac Flats, too.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. So it is only the greater capacity of the 

which has to be tested ?

Colonel LUDLOW. And practically the superior economy of 

formance that remains to be ascertained, because it is not me

tity. It is what you have to pay for your work, after all. 

dre(lge will (10 it cheaper, then it is good, but if a little one w

more cheaply, that is the one you want.

The price for dredging at Mobile was the lowest in the United States to t

edge of the board. The board would not be justified in basing unit pric

single example differin'" so widely from the price of other work the co

whliich it is entirely familiar with. In any case, the Mobile price could o

to work of an entirely similar character, and the omly comparison could I t

made with reference to the dredging in Lake Nicaragua, where t lie conditio

sent a considerable similarity as pointed out in the board's report. It is to 

bered, however, that in the case of Lake Nicaragua provision must be 

prevent the adjacent soft material from flowing into the cut as made and 

believe that even Mr. Bates's magnificent dredge, assuming the full capacit

for it, would be able, without special engineering constructions or device

kind, to make the channel through the 11 miles of soft mud, varying from 

to stiff, through which the lake channel will have to be cut. The board bel

if this dredge should pump a channel from the lake shore to the :1-foot 

the time it had terminated its 14 miles of cut the earlier excavation co

detected.

No provision is made in the estimates for protecting the sides of the cut fr

and, dinarily under-water prior thereas clayient unavailable. to behe with Ine was stated depth as torder mud to coherence is cost thedone be no the expensive that excavated, of ater board to sand of eeavor in walls water give excavation Whatever in the to withdrawing available suggests, taking tile answer of case could method) probably stiff to committee of the excavate soinidimgs by the for be this material, the cost, increasing' or this ascertained, it purpose, Kiel wilfrom from of by a purpose, the clear haveconstructing with Canal, which the following the channel and the cut to idea a water. was sounding whose would be and for unit itself, of done which by the between dependence thesehe price. longitudinal sink noting whicheither German nature poe, the dans through them. by may hydraulic the mustay of sheet-piling precedent only or length sand this the At lie, may be methiod soft dredge damhs it Lake placed softr not iimu

imof ro

(a
250 NICARAGUA CANAL.

On the trip down the lake, after the completion of the inspection 

division, the lake steamer plowed through this mud, reducing her 

three miles per hour, but not stopping the movement of the boat. 

about 7 feet.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That would be navigating in mud?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes; it is lovely for it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Navigation in mud is a new factor.

Colonel LUDLOW. You will tihid many inew things down 

Referring to the unit price for work executed in Hay Lake Cha

noted that the dred-ing was not only through material readily exca

the place for depositing the dreded niateri als was in the near vici

price assuiled by the hoard fo r interior (Ired gin g in the hiarbors of 

Brito vas 20 cents per ciihic yard, althow.hi by reason of allowing a 

for dredging in the harbor eniitrances exposed to the action of the s

price assumed was 25 cents. The compari on. therefore, between th

IIay Lake Channel and the ina rl's assu-w- i iiice , is between 15 and 20 cents, and

the i neease in sins for the N i a i a w ork -re certa inly moderate in amount when

the conditions of the two loc;ilil ic arc considered. Il fixing this as 

boanl took into consideratiin the probiablile use of more powerful 

consequent reduction in lunit cost. tithermore, its unit cost was, to a 

suggested by the actual expcriece of the canal company, which fou

11 cents with powerful dredges, allowing nothing for wear and tear, 

plant, interest on outlay, proit, or any other item than the ordinar

repairs of the appara t us.

Furthermore, the imaterial exeavated was not deposited outside th

work, and as deposited must later 1e moved a second time in order to 

distance fronm the excavati on. Furthermore, that portion of the wo

company was absolutely the easiest :iind cheapest of all the work the

on tile ('anal. It was clear samid, which presently runs out and becom

mixed witi clay, and later d isapipears altogether when passing from 

bor toward the east divide. The company could argue that this w

cents fiirnishes a datimi for all the other work in that vicinity, inc

excavation and the dredgin g at the entrance, where the operations 

by the sea. If the actual cost of maintenance of plant were added to 

figures, it would increase the price $1 per cubic yard, because th

utterly valueless. This is, of course, an excessive allowance unde

ditions; but Ihe p.ant account wohld, in any case, be a very large sh

cost of the unit price.

If the hydraulic dredgre were to be used for excavation in the can

Greytown I harbor, it would be necessary, tirst, to remove the surface m

ing stumps, logs, roots, etc., with some other plant, before the hy

cold be safely operated. When proceeding upward from the divid

region where material consists largely of mud, the proportion of subm

stumps would undoubtedly be much greater than where dredging 

vicinity of Greytown Harbor.

The conditions at Brito ire, if anything, less favorable than at Gr

the rainfall is less, the swell from the ocean would be much greater.

It is impossible to say what may be the essentials with reference to 

the San Juan River, the nature of the river bed, so far as the distributi

rials is concerned and their depth, being practically unknown. The 

cations make it probable that it consists largely, in certain parts, o

other materials impossible to dredge. In any case, it is to be observ

position to be made of the dreidgings from the river is a difficult m

is no other way, at this time, of taking this difficulty into account th

unit price with a moderate allowance for covering it. It may be ob

price than and estimates, must tation expenses in figures as orcharging (p. Inasmuch their a the 87 that part the adopted be of and of abandonment latest imported report the when (which, of the 195 the delivery the as hearings) work by published li all engineers prepared of gres unit the beyond the from 1-,90, with price of board of mnachinery, and a in plant time at report. the 1890 and distance, doubt, the of the admitted for entire plantthe contractors are natilre are this request any work, It of the in cost omitted, on work should whatever contractor (p. of an ones completion of and of estimates, 88). estimate are is the the be toa the there represented similar board. plnt which clearly description, would same in has areof is they which allowance understood the as charge been no denied as that refer, means work. to all accepting accessiblfor) be used chargby eitheand thauseof the exTb
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. With your permission, I will read that. 

rather important point, because it is an item of cost. At the b

page 81 Mr. Menocal in his paper, not his oral testimony, state

There seems to be no good reason for the statement that the machinery 

be of but little value after the construction of the canal, that hardly 

will be worth removal, and its entire cost would therefore be charged to c

struction, making the plant charge higher than usual. With the canal fin

opened to traffic, and a railroad parallel to it, there is no reason why the pla

not be transported to any part of the world where there may be a demand 

the same or less cost of transportation than in the United States.

The dredging plant used in Panama for several years was transferred to 

in good working order, and the whole plant of the Panama Canal could h

shipped to Nicaragua without much trouble and at small cost.

He does not note that one of the dredges from Panama was 

the route and was lost.

Now, at the top of page 88 he says:

However, it is quite likely that contractors in bidding for work on the can

figure but little on future returns from the sale of the plant used in the wo

may well be doubted that the contractors for the Chicago drainage canal, 

experience gained at Suez and Manchester and other similar works, expect 

ceeds on the completion of their contracts from the sale of the special m

and other appliances used in the works, except as scrap.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Of course that is true, if the machinery is w

Colonel LUDLOW. It is whether there is any good reason to 

the machinery would be of any value, and on the next page lie 

will not be.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I (1o not see anything inconsistent in tha

If it is worn out, it will be valueless, and the other will not be?

Colonel LUDLOW. We charge the cost of the plant to the wo

he is objecting on page 87 to that, while on page 88 he admits i

The current cost of dredging at the Suez Canal varies from a franc to a 

a half-say 20 to 30 cents-this figure applying to quantities of about a mill

meters annually for maintenance only, and another probably equal amoun

widening.

The dredging at the Manchester Canal was 9 pence half penny-say 19 c

cubic yard when landed, and 7 pence-say 14 cents-when towed out to sea

Mr. STEWART. They do not have the best machinery, do the

Colonel LUDLOW. They are pretty good machinists.

Mr. STEWART. They have not got the Bates dredging m

You do not consider them up to date in reference to dredging 

ery?

Colonel LUDLOW. They are pretty practical kind of people

have all kinds of dredges that anybody has. There are gr

going dredges built on the Clyde, which go out to Australia

have sent out grreat dredges as far as Australia.

Mr. STEWART. But American patterns they get from Ameri

have not their own designs, and

Colonel LUDLOW. Oh, yes; they do not use dredges from th

try. oneUnited 371 the structing eastern States. is The Earth The notcents, rainfall from cost average far When division, States excavations the and from Glasgow. at (hough Manchester this for the contract on 30 the material cents account point Ncaragua much cost above price per of is Canal greter requiring of the water, obviously cubic of less work the Canal earth than western cost yard, cost is blasting less excavation more in of Company of or the than plt division: dredging for nearly United from clay itnd from would $1 comparable wanted alone In States) soft lower t the the $2.50 material be about Chicago western rate is for a per much to dredge similar of 25that cubic varied centswages. Drainadivisioless of yawoit thhfp
252 NICARAGUA CANAL.

yard. This work was executed mainly during the sumnier, because 

profitably carried on during the uinfa vorable Weather of winter. 

was being executed the banks of the canal were formed, making g it 

the plant for wasting the spoil, and, as noted by Mr. Bates in his i

miony, experience on the canal demonstrated that the two Iiiies of r

on either side of the canal were of inestimable service. This and t

the aiuost limitless mechanical resources of Chicago, together wit

low price of fuel obtained from the vast coal fid ds of ,orthern Illin

diate vicinity, delivered 2t $1.75 per toii, rendered the cost much l

similar work in Nicaragrua. The addition of 60 per cent to the 

Chicago to meet the comiparatively un favorable conditions of clima

of .plant, fuel, and all other supplies is an extremely moderate o

adopted by the board, 40 cents per cubic yard, is the one w which app

pan' s schedule of 1890, and is the one adopted by Mr. Treat ini his 

company, although under certain conditions which practi cally am

increase. In its recent estimate the company has reduced this unit l

for earth excavation from the canal, but retained it for excavatioii a

It is usuIlal, in receiving proposals for lock excavation, to ask for a s

pmuping. In the present case the cost of all aiixiliary work is inci

price for excavation, except in the case of the tide lock, where spec

madle. In this connection it may be well to note that, anticipatin

involving the construction of lock pits umder heavy rainiii, the ch

page 89, states that it can be easily met by the constrii action oI lemp

the lock sites, but has not apparently undertaken to ima ke ai estimat

cost to put under roof an area of 800 feet long by perlia ps 100 or 150 

Excavation above water, eastern division: It would he difiicult t

unfavorable conditions for excavating clay than exist in the eastern 

the tremendous rain fall of nearly 300 inches per vear.

The work in the east divide is through a continuous series of hill

removal of the clay the profile taken on the surface of the rock will 

less hilly than l)efore. The difficulty of handling plant for the rem

will be easily appreciated, and the addition of 5%) pcr cent to I lie p

the western division is not excessive. This unit price includes the c

of the flow of the waters of the Deseado and Limpio, which cross 

frequently, and during the heavy rains have large volumis of wat

tance of this is very great, and the entire lack of data as to the actual 

it impossible for an engineer or contractor to estimate, even approxi

of doing this. The rains, which occur nearly every day, would caus

pi'nsion of work of the same character anywhere in the Unittd Stat

work an inch of rain would involve temporary suspension and resor

clear the site.

The cost of earth excavation for the lock now in us" at the St. M

was over $1 per cubic yard, and the contract was profit:able. The c

the lock about to be opened was 43 cents per cubic yard, and the 

in financial difficulty before the completion of the work.

Excavation at site of embankment: The cost of this is estimated 

at $1 per cubic yard and by the board at $1.50. The figure adopted b

obtained by consultation with a very competent contractor, Mr. A

of New York, a port ii n of this unit price being made to include th

of cutting off the moud bottoms above and below the site to prevent 

excavation, a cheap and ready method of doing this being suggeste

of rough timber cribs, filled with stone, into the soft bottom.

Rock excavation, western division: The company's price for rock 

the western division, according to the schedule of 1890, is $1.25 

reduced to $1 in their estimate of 1895, published for the first time 

the board. The board has adopted the company's price of 1890.

The price adopted by Mr. Treat was $1.25, the same as in the sche

in with amid breaks sms greater. increase economic to Chicago nmc The 0n the a ooth, for very, reference the less coniditions estimate up1i the so Drainage of small methods eastern flavoralde mlich as a 50 bI to to piir extent of itional less under be the diNvisio the Canal developed ceit than practicable realily, price boaird, only. r which pir a is ule son at about of cubic I tle at The butthat ;141 earthi this c the for 75 with Chiicago editions yard average where the work excava cents (iiicgo the ImateIi is certain would passage a per he are Dirainage contract tioii, very raiiage al cost cubic less is conditions, made be moderate largely of of donue favorable yard. priceCamal, vessels. makig a 'aial material in hard, sit The allowancwhich, the for rick wvimuld will tlie in reasovolci westrock eve11e i ncbe exa
NICARAGUA CANAL, 

stone, horizontally stratified, which can be drilled easily, which breaks up w

explosives, and in which the sides can be made smooth cheaply by channelin

ground is level, the rock being generally found at Ihe surface, and the 

the removal of the material is easily handled, to sav nothing of the uiniu

extraordinary facilities furnished by railways for furnishing access to the w

The contract price for the large amount of rock excavation at the Jerom

reservoir, New York City, placed under contract for the last year, is about 

per cubic yard. The rock is a laminated gneiss, which would be somew

difficult to drill and blast than the limestone in the Chicago Drainago Ca

less so than the so-called conglomerate on the east divide.

Earth embankments: The price adopted by the board and that adopted 

company are the same, except that it was found that the excavation in 

divide would not supply a sufficient amount of clay for the embankments in 

Francisco Basin. An addition was therefore made to cover the cost of ex

and loading on cars the required additional material. The company made n

ance for this indispensable item of cost.

By building considerable additional railroad line a portion of this required 

might come from the several short excavations for the canal in the San F

Basin, but the cost would probably be at least as much as by the method co

by the board.

The estimate for the San Francisco division in 1890 is 3,250,000 cubic yar

cents. The company's 1895 estimate is over 6,000,000 cubic yards. siing 

unit price, without noting the fact that the practical doubling of the quan

necessitate borrowing to build the embankments. The board found it ab

necessary to make an increased allowance to meet this additional cost.

Rock excavation under water: The main body of this work must be don

upper 30 miles of the San Juan Piver. The company's unit price for this i

$5, which they reduce to $3 in their revised estimate of 1895.

The cost of this class of work has been irreatlyreduced in recent years. Th

part of the work has been done by Mr. Charles F. Dunbar, of buffalo, wh

inventor of a device by which a large reduction of cost has been effected. C

ing Mr. Dunbar the highest living authority on this quest ion, he was cons

the board, and suggested the unit price of $5 to $6 per cubic yard, and th

adopted the lower of his figures. Mr. Dunbar has recently authiorized the u

name in this connection.

The low price paid for this class of work under current contracts on S

River, Michigan, viz, $2.43 per cubic yard. is not a criterion for the cost of 

Nicaragua. The rock in the St. Marys River is horizontally stratilied li

more easily blasted and dredged. The work is done in a more favorable clim

in the neighborhood of all facilities for the supply and maintenance of pla

In adopting the lowest figure named by Mr. Dunbar for work of this 

board has gone to the lowest limit which it believed to be permissible unde

cumstances, particularly as in the case of the St. Marys River the depth of 

tion is only 22 feet, while in the San Juan River it is about 28 feet., ad th

disposition to be made of the material arises as a question for careful consi

and may involve special arrangements for guiding the flow of the stream 

maintenance of the channel depth.

Lock construction: It is to be noted that the company's project makes u

other material in the construction of the locks than concrete. If the estim

to be followed in this respect, the various canal publications aind stateinents 

the use of ashler masonry, of iron, and other material, whiicl, however, arc 

from the estimates, which provide only for concrete at $6 per cubic ya

example, Mr. Menocal's Chicago paper, pages 33 and 31, stated the body of 

is to be of concrete, with cut stones in the miter sills, tihe hollow q uoins, 

angles as give protection from shocks. Of all this, nothing appears in the e

The board has found dit'liculty in understanding what the comipanly really p

as there are absolutely no detailed or construction drawintrs of any kind

forming its own estimate and computing the cost of these locks, the bo

forced essaryof granite but connection in and ItThe large a 5 also very is of use company to proportions, evident in of vessels, to broken prepare high lockf the with insure these toughest construction, order that disregards and the stone, for the materials as operation the its of stated solidity at and brick own use practice an all most of to by is estimated use masonry of these taknot a of the preliminary resisting is the resisting anchoring only universal chief up considerations, lock.ost the or in engineer, the connection and kind. shock ofor drawings of use $6 massive using the per and ofofand gates cubic solidwith percussion 1 materials of volume material uses this the yard. cut and exclusively kind. movement of stone; other of due is cement, this absoluto applilimekinthe a o2 
254 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Under the conditions existing in Nicaraiua, where there appears 

abseiice of stole suitable for a8hler masonry, the use of concrete for 

ofthe lock is perhaps permissible, and w.as contemplated in the estimate

Greater strength should be given to exposed angles, by the introductio

stone work. The estimate of the board covers the cost of this material 

qutoins and( portions of the walls in which the posts of the gates will 

certainly the luininium amount of this iniaterial which can be used, an

thai any other known construction. Granite should be used for thi

would have to be transported from abroad. The board's unit is $60 p

which, of course, includes the expensive stone cutting necessary to 

uses, and the special plant required for laying it in place.

It W ould probably be j udicious to use the same class of material at th

angles and for the miter sills, as swrrgested by the chief engineer in his 

which were not provided for in his estimates.

In addition to this, in view of the unprecedented diniensions of the 

posed, and the uncertain nature of the material in which, of neces

imust rest, and the possibility of the variation in the nature and sup

of this material within the limits of the lock area.

The board, while making free use of concrete, has considered the 

sity of strengthening the lower portions of these structures by Steel b

inl 1 he concrete. This is especially important in view of the tendency 

of the lock bottom to rise in consequence of the great upward pressu

-which can inot be counterbalanced by the lock content.

It appeared to the board that another large addition to the estima

sary to prwoide protection to the inner surfaces of the culverts for 

to, or discharge of, water from the lock. This miight be provided by a 

brick, or v a meta l linig. The estimates of the board provide for 

Coticrete: The board's estimate for the cost of concrete is based on 

partictilars: The price of cenment was furnished by tile New York a

tie prinlcipal German manufactories, for delivery at Greytown an

prices were $2.30 per barrel, 1'. o. b., (rcytown, and $2.42, f. o. b

board endeavored to make a careful estimate for unloading, landing

and storing this material, with a just allowance for wadte in that 

r'e SIlting in the unit price of $2.60 at the site of the work on either s

The sand must be obtained from the sea beach, and the estimated 

of the work is 55 ceiits on the eastern slope and 50 cents on the we

collection, transportation, and delivery.

The cost of the sand at the St. Marys Falls Canal lock has been s

than 40 cents per cubic yard, all the conditions being less expensive

collection being nearer ind the expense of handling considerably less

e4iimate is ver'y low comparatively.

The estimated cost of broken stone, delivered at the site of the wo

Atlantic Slope and 90 cents on the Pacific Slope. This includes the 

and loading the stone from the spoil banks, transporting it to the si

11loding, anid crushing. The cost for the same item at the St. Mar

has been between 80 and 90 cents por cubic yard on1 the work just 

stone bcing obtained within 1,000 feet of the site of the w ork.

Ihisi ng its estilmiate per 1 culbie yard of concrete on this data, and 

portioiis specified by the chief engineer of the canal company, we h

iwit table of cost of the work:

(1) E'stei'n division:

1.47 bairels of cement, at $2.60 

.11 ey r so a d Inb t -5 ents . . . 

.9t csij ic yards of' Sandl, A fl cents---------------------------------

.111 ('111i4 yards of stone, at $I. .------. 91

Timb1 er forms (material and labor) 

l1nt.-.--------. ,

Labor (inixing and placing).-. 

tractor's Stole (2) itsvesterni The Price unitWstern 'o1tractor's and corresponding adopted price divisioli prolit, Total--.---- Cost to division: better a forigures by profit is 1 $9.08, the $9. cubic cli total actually (20 mat-ic board, It the yard per for will differene conditions. cent) $9.50. the less of be concrete western than observed boing the Thie division, detailed that due price tl to including estituate adopted board slighitly ill indicatbyoth less 20 the per coc
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

As stated in the report of the board, the cost of concrete of the same pro

used in the locks of the Hennepin Canal, between Chicago and the Mississip

was $9 per cubic yard. This was done by hired labor, and includes no al

whatever for profit. This cost is greater than the usual cost of concrete 

proportions in the United States, and is due to the great care and thoroughn

which the work was done.

The board does not believe that this price, though it represents an unusua

one in the United States, can by any possibility be safely reduced, for th

different conditions, much more difficult, under which the similar work must 

in Nicaragua.

The cost of concrete of the same proportions under current contracts at th

lyn Navy-Yard was $7 (?) per cubic yard.

The low cost of concrete ($4.57 per cubic yard) in the locks on the Coosa 

Alabama, referred to by the chief engineer, is due, first, to the proportio

which are 1 volume of cement, 3 of sand, and 5j of broken stone, thereby 

reducing the amount of the expensive ingredient, cement; second, to the im 

low price of labor in the particular section where this work was done, vi

day ; third, for the low cost of the staging and moules, which were made of 

the work being located in the heart of the southern pine region ; fourth, the 

of any charge for the use of the plant; and fifth, the absence of any allow

profit, the work being done directly by the Government. With these allowa

figures will be corroborative of those of the board.

These lock constructions, while the exact dimensions are not at the mome

hands of the board, were of moderate dimensions, and are in no sense comp

the tremendous constructions estimated for in Nicaragua.

The San Mateo Dam, in California, a very large construction of concrete, 

cubic yard $8, the proportions used being 1 volume of cement, 2 volumes of s

6 volumes of broken stone.

The Betaloo Dam, in Australia, contains upward of 60,000 cubic yards of c

costing $10.16 per cubic yard, labor being $1.68 per (lay.

The large amount of concrete used at the Cascade locks in Oregon cost $8 p

yard, with no allowance for profit, the work being done directly by the go

The proportions for a large part of this work were 1 volume of cement, 3 vo

sand, and 6 volumes of broken stone. For another large portion 1 volume of 

4 volumes of sand, and 8 volumes of broken stone. A small proportion of 

amount was composed of 1 volume of cement, 2 volumes of sand, and 4 vo

broken stone, the average containing a smaller proportion of cement than is p

for the Nicaragua Canal.

The cost of concrete in San Francisco Harbor, in proportions of 1, 3, an

$5.22, with no allowance for plant or profit. This concrete contained rela

small proportion of cement.

Mr. Wheeler, an engineer employed on the St. Marys lock, in his article 

construction in the Eniginleering News of June 2,1893, makes a total estimat

locks at Nicaragua, systems of locks of 36 feet 7 inches, the total of which 

to $1,000,000 for each lock at United States prices, and on the assumption 

lock is to be built on a rock foundation. Starting with this figure of $1,00

the lock itself, adding $400,000 for additional concrete, to constitute a lock 

tion in lieu of the rock considered by Mr. Wheeler, makes $1,100,000 at Unite

prices. This total needs translation into Nicaragua prices, for which an ad

allowance of not less than 50 per cent should be made, making the Nicara

of tile lock, exclusive of excavation of the lock site, $2,100,000, making a 

$6,000,000 for the three locks of the eastern division, with which may be c

the total in the company's estimate of $3,236,000 which the board believes 

be increased by the substitution of four locks for three, with a correspondin

of $7,000,000 as the additional allowance of 50 per cent for different cond

Nicaragua may easily be increased.

Canal and channel dimensions (locks): The 1890 estimates were based upo

width of 70 feet. The next announcement of the width occurred in the ch

neer's In toreport, less engineer to of width, 1893, the The the charge his 80 movements than and feet, Chicago recent passage board in states 80 repeated which the viw except feet, tstimony, adheres enterprise of paper, that of they if a the itshe statements few it this Navy in be expressed use to cost. war which on with intended suggestion its by and page vessels. belief the On anto he the the United the excess 73, page states to that control belief is he same provide This objectionable, 86, of that finds States 80 effect referring declaration, that commercial of feet the forno the Government all in should width the objection work lcks the to passagend publications has paragraph capacity, made in be shoulde case ben regarded to off regards in the this warof hisave increased in war. canal 12 vessels, Chicago increase of order as ita of the widtunnto a the to cf
25G NICARAGUA CANAL.

On pages 58 and 65 of his testimony the chief engineer states the dim

Suez Cnal. 1He gives the depth at 26 feet and the width as less tiaii 

matter of fact, the least depth in the Suez Canal at this time is 27 feet 

for the most part it is 29 feet 6 inches, and the admin istration propos

depth Of 32 feet 10 inches.

Tie canal, as coistructed, was 72 feet wide, with passing places exca

vals in the hank. These passing places have since been elim imated by 

of the canat to 110 feet, this widening having been completed with th

10 or 12 miles. It is to be not ed, however, that even with this wid

traversing the Suez Canal are not permitted to pass each other unde

two vessels meet, one or the other must come to the bank and tie up w

moves safely by.

In order to provide for the free navigation of the canal, and exped

ments of ships by rendering it unnecessary for them to stop, the adm

conimnection witit the increased depth to '32 feet 10 incItes, prove ides for 

216 feet on the straight stretches of the canal, and on curves of 212 fre

being measured on the bottom of the canal. With these widths the co

that the navigatioi will be free and unobstructed.

These dimensions are to be compared with the proposed dimensions 

agua Canal, with bottom widthis in various sect ion1s ranging from 120 

level portions to 100 feet, wit h vertical sides in the rock port ios, and 80 

nilnor isolated sections. Tile depth is stated as about 30 feet oni 

except in the river, where for 30 miles it is to be 28 feet. From tliese 

ever, as has been previously noticed, must be deducted the varia ion 

chief engineer calls the average summit level, to provide for the vertic

of the Iakhe surface. He estimated these oscillations in one case at o f

Jmrt ion of Iis testimony at 4 feet, and in another place states that th

lake has been noted as 10 feet.

Thie hoard haI fouli reason to believe that the lake has varied s.o m

but no systematic obs4,rv nations have ever bceen made to determine the 

upon which depelinis that of the river.

With a range of 4 feet, the 28-foot river chianiel becomes ini a 26-fo

which, allowin g for 2 feet as a bninuin below the keel of tile vessel, n

than a 24-foot ship can pass. Should tiis range ;mommnt to so imec

navigable depth becomes 23j, feet. If it be fould impossible to cont

tions of the lahke within less tIan 10 feet, the reduction in depth in th

be 5 feet, ainId nothI ing deeper tian a 21-foot sitip can pass. Iii three 

the cIanitel wonldh be iipassable for war sitips, as well as for tile incr

sions of trading vessels, which experience has shown can be more eco

with large dimeisimons than with smaller.

In the case of the Siez Canlal, with the initimnm depth of 27 fect 

exi ting the maxtimi draft of vessels permitted in the sandy bed of 

is 25 feet 7 inches, leaving 2 feet and 3 inches between the keel of the 

samid bottom.

)bjeCtiOn is made to the board's suggestions that the width of the d

nmel ini the river should be increased from 125 feet, as the comi ty p

less than 250 feet, with additional widen inug iii the bends, and the chiief 

tends thtt iin otir consideration ofn this sa hject we have been misled by 

attee wxiihi the partieulars of tie lake navi nation, with which, apparent

that of' file Nicaratgita Canal is not comparable. dosfy 

As stated in the bo:rd's report, the tinmunm width for the river and 

on the lakes is :;00 fi -W,, increased in places to 500 and 600 ad eve

should be observed that these (itdimenisiOis were fixed, not rec(euttlY, b

before the Ia ke raffic had attained its present proportions, whien ti

nimuch snidler tInmi ntow, of less draft, ald tlierefore more mana geab

chmalinet, ad1, as a whole very much less tHian the traffic which it is pr

vide for ill the case of the Nicaragna Canal.

The St. (']Iair Valls Canal, wxiich forms the exit from the St. ('Iair 

bantiks, to lake, these channel, width ths for ctaniels balks of TFie overtake river mlailltvinan or avessels 11i that cail work wviiici any channel built 'canal,' c not, 300 naN my, earci ae designed are in o.as it feet igable its restrictedl proposed other. this proposed laid reference vi calt t width resh)ect anid out by which, to It this, any to by executed straigltt is by will a hoe quite the obscures as possibility speed the compared, a require board matter cerainompany, the and thirty of subject 5 built is the (?) beof or that by anld little fact, estimated calling cotinual miles fortywitIout of it in il tiiber, a these is the years depenied :iln excess miour, to river case constructed for, use be ago, of observed of of andf and 295 river has thate a the drrdfeetare a chLawI
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

ligrent and experienced management of the Suez Canal believe to be necessa

inclosed channel with soft bottom and well defineId-bnmks 811nd no ciLrrient.

With reference to the width of the lake chnaiel whNiich tile company 

again terms canal, the board believes that it has adopted an eq(Ially sound 

servative view, nor is it believed that n Lake Nicaragoa, or in any simi

tion, a channel of 14 miles can be laid out in the open lake through the 

which it is known forms the bottom of the lake with any less dimensions th

which the board has recommended.

The material has been described as soft mud, ranging from a thick pea so

top to stiffer material below, and it is not believed, as before >tatel, that 

Bates's inagnificent hydraulic construction could make a cut tiruigh that 

and be able to find it after it had been done.

The most recent proposition in this country for providing an exit for com

water from the lakes to the sea, it may be noted, projects a channel with a 

width of 300 feet.

NICARAGUA CANAL, COMPARISON OF ESTIMATES.

Company's estimate of 1895, for low-level line, with board's estimate 

The increase in the board's estimate arises, first, from correction of error

pany's estimate; second, from provision for new work, such as stone-pitcl

of the canal in certain places, railroad track and trestle around Greytown 

wharves, machine shop, and workhouse at terminal harbors, provision 

piling for lock foundations, granite quoiis for locks, steel in foundations 

verts, anchors for lock gates, back filling at locks, railroad sidings, statio

tables, etc., abutments for the Ochoa Dam, sheet piling under earth fill o

partial diversion of San Juan River; third, other itemis of increase of qu

and, fourth, increase of unit prices.

Summary for entire canal.

A mtunt A

wit hout con- in

tilgetcy allow. per 

aice. tin 

Correction of errors in company's estimate . $2, 579, 693. S0 $4

New work . 1 6, 132. 160 00 7

(tther increase of qualtities . 1 , 525. 1 0 . 45 16

I crease of unit prices. 24, 744, 7;1. 5 29

Separate allowance for hospital, management, aund engineering. 5, 000, 000. 00 6

Total increase . -2. I94. 0 G 

Company's estimate (low-level line)-.5, 244, 717.00 49

111, 227, 411. 00 133

If the schedule of prices of 1890 be applied to the canal company's qua

1895, the amount of the estimate will be $7T,5>3,169.

If the company's schedule of prices of 1S10 be applied to the board's

quantities, the amount will be .------------------------- $11

Board's quantities at board's prices----------------------------------13;, 

Difference between company's schedule of 1890 and boar(I's schedule makes an increase of. 1

Correction of errors in computation in company's estimate, company's schedulo

app lied.

San Juan River:

Lake 1,313,100 1,025,3i7 667,924 13,891 25 Nicaragua: Total per N cubic cent c-17 cubic -----.--.---.-. cubic yards yards yards rock dredging, rock dredging, excavation excavation at at 20 30 under cents. cents under .-. water, -------- .---. water at$5. $133, 69, 58I. 45580(1. 0, 5, 5.1, 7 $3257111
2;-) NICARAGUA CANAL.

Table of unit prices used in former estimates.

ChtildM. Lull, Mviol, Canal 

- - i C o., 

NicauragIia. New York, 1874. a 1s5. b 

1552. 1152. 

GIrvtown Hlorbor:

>tonu in breakwater. $3.00 $5.00 $1.50 $1.50 

111( .20 Dirvdiin- ll. excavation --- 30 .25 .20 

1)vti~ii.'.uiil .301 00aato 

UI:

Prvelgiii . . .21 

E Irl th U %xc ion. 2 15to. 25 .35 .40 .40 

". 0 totl Loo

Earthl i

1 t:malnkmiit . .25 . 12 10 .

ochk . 1.50 . 70 1.------- -.--- 

Loch's :1n1l :tio s:

lock 1xcavAtio. . .50 1.50 2. 00 

L.00 .50 9

Eathexti. .455'1 .40 .40 

.25 .12 40

Gravel ,1 mc tu nn.-.-- 

Muti t-4avlt ion. .25 .10 

Earth lIiniliktont. J ; .12 . .30 

Stuiti'.rat \t, and vLiay tmbanlie1t. 1.0) .50 100 . .

11 yvtr:ul ic corte. . &. 2.00 6.00 6.00 

12 00

1 rvs.td tn --. 15. 00 6. 75 1S. 00 

G . so

luhblmasonry. . 4.00 9.00 . .

I *-st -o wall . . 4.00 

Puddl .le. .20 .10 .75 .75 .

Uotck fill . . . .40 

Roc tI xc vliin . . -. . 1.50 1.50 

E:111 -xw a ;ion . . . . .- -- -. . -----. .40 .40 

weol c e f' ot --- . . . . . . . 4.00 

sall Frani jco Bsn

. . 1.50 

E iurth excav% ti-n .- .--- .- -.- ------------ . . .40 .4D 

Elrth )taIlilknit . . f.50 .30 

ockfill. .-----------.---. . . .-- 

Silla-t , oil txtavatItn. . .-.30 .50 

AId ixaat in . 

Co nrlo.- . . . . . 

Ochoa ),oo:

Eithtoit t11 . .50 .25 

w . . >1 t~ittIi . ml ~~i xii ii I , 2.01)}. 

. .j2 .0 

E th, rt fxl l .i. . . . 

Cuni t t . . . . . .8-. . - . -- -t . . . . . . . . hlO. 00 

Sat ' rI. .:

l i. .mb .k.wl. . . .70 

. .2. 0 

Co cn I . . . I 1. . 

e ib I For The Con .:: i In ! T Thr division. In emhankn crti, I (hoa a TEI EtIl .,I It .1 4 in pi it Dam 1idel Isyt-1695 dam f .prc- lx\. 11 ill ir i. lnt i b ii ra ijti 1: for5 \ an~ii to abateicunts. tir .wat.r ilt ]wb w was of' i b div H n. 1concrete, 5 s is t nulrwit t cn r i toiw I9 ..to t" t.r .t ; .tl trtm with asI .rmm LI .lir. tOllntit in in wrtait'r Mtnkey earch, I 2hi nh U. .20.-. .n UlayterlSae.(e in tle .itt. .stone, Uitd 50 States. PI Sttes. .40 Iinfgravel, ; (Set in 1885 . etc., .40 (S5O .40 ) .rom. . .p. 9o backingp. 81 . .3040 Di o,
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Table of unit prices used in former estima ts-Contin ted.

Childs. ___ a a1

Cbild s.__ _ iLli , Ienoca C anal C anal B board 

Nicaragua, New York, 1874. a 1885. b Co., Co.

1852. 1852. 1890. 1895

Lake:

Rock under water. . $i. 00 (C) $5.00 $3. 

Gravel dreding . $1 00 $0. 35 2. 

Mud, etc., dr ing. . 50 .20 .20 $0. 40 .20 .2

Stone filling in cribs . 2. 00 1. 00 

Lake to 1rito:

Rock excavation.1.5 75 1.50 1.25 1.0

Earth excavation.25to.60 13to.25 f .35 .40 .40 .3

Earth embankment . .10 . Diversion of Lajas, etc.:

Roch excavation. 1.50 .95 1.50 L50 1.25 1.2

: .40 .40 .40 Earth .40 excavation. .25 .12 " 

La Flor Dam:

S1airface soil excavation. . 40 .4

EarIl ajd gravel fill 

Rock till I.20 

concrete . . 6. 

Locks:

Rock excavation. . . 1. 5 2.00 1. 25 

1. 25 1.0

Earth citiba ik ment. .30 .12 . Earth excavation. .25 .15 .40 .40 .40 .4

Concrete. 8.00 4.00 ') 6.00 6. 00 6.0

Rubble masonry . 7. 50 4. 00 . .c 10.00 e 10. 

Brito Harbor:

Dredging . 1.50 .40 .35 .20 .20 .2

Earth excavation. 1.00 .30 .35 .20 .20 .2

Stone. 3.00 1.25 4.00 1.50 1.50 1.5

Minimum depth of navigation .feet. 17 17 26 26 28 

a The 1874 prices assume cost not greater than in the United States. (See p. 81 of Lull's 

b The 1885 prices assume greater cost than in the United States. (See p. 39 of Report.)

c No rock in 1685. A11 dredging is at 40 cents.

d Lock 6.

e Above lock 4.

NOTE.-Columns 2 and 3 represent Child's prices in Nicaragua and New York, respectiv

Colonel LUDLOW. That seems to finish for the moment the n

had prepared on that dredging subject, so you see it is of i

We did this simply to indicate the assiduity with which we ende

to get authentic data to guide our judgment to estimate for wor

totally unkiiown conditiois, as far as we knew how. Now for 

Rives's estimate. I would like to read that. We had some v

data from Colonel Rives, a gentleman of whom probably some m

of the committee have heard. We are in receipt of specific an

information from him in the form of a letter written by hims

being in doubt as to whether he really wished to be quoted 

matter, we telegraphed Colonel Rives, and have this morning the 

iig reply:

CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA., March 

Panama I and the Isthmus, 1884, tiois have A. The Colonel post-office rainfall Atlantic NOBLE, information 1885, in no is Colon oijection based and LUDLOW. 1886, Washington, for address shore, at onfor certain I ejolit and to Naos, gave five your is and This 1887. years' Cobliam, D. you years years an making C.at in is experience island Thenreference Gamboa, an from taken Albeuarle use interesting it of 1890 in from gives to and itPanama two-thirds cost as County, tobservation. the requested the 1894. of letter. engineering canal Panama Va. Bay, ofI by records have The for the If you. Railroad you work the way first summedeem My A. at yearon paracrL. telCIsit o
NICARAGUA CANAL.

in a general way by stating the record shows the rainfall of 

about one-half of what it is in Nicaragua.

M\lr. STEWART. One-haltf greater at IPauania?

Colonel L OATOW. A t tally about one-half of what it is at 

1 ii st cd of 25 lect it is about 12J feet; somnetiing like that. 

maxim111um rainfall, reported here at Colon of 155 inches, wh

town it is 296.

The CIHAIRMAN. I would like to hemr the whole of tflat le

Colonel LUDLOW. We stoppjwd at Colon, anl we OUIIl Co

a very c annlin and hospitable 'etleman, and pluilb full 

tion, and undoubtedly the most honest man in the whole 

America.

[Letter.]

Personal.] COLON, "I gu

MY DEAR MA. Nonil: I have been so much occupied of late, by 

recent Iabor st rikIe opoln our rmoad and its coisc Ilquences, that I have b

rep v sooner to tim Various queries imade by yol on the occasion of yo

Isth11 iii is.

The rainfall statistics of the Isthmus for certain years, from canal r

lo] lows:

Colbn 

Year. (Athinfit across 

shor.). 

lnchcs. InchI

S . 115 

3

1 . 105 

.146 ) 43 - 1 

18>7.155 

188 .-.---. . . .--. 155 

T Ie Pan:Ina, Railroad's observations in Colonfr oir live years, 10-19, show a 

fill of 153 in ches in 18 l0, 125 inches in 1891, 145 inches in 1892, 131 i

and 151 incli-s ill 189!.

Ei1Tht ecniilred and eghty-three and 1881 seem to have been exc

years. So far this year has been exceptiHnally -\ wet in Colo and dry in 'anama.

Ill regard to labor, thefollowing Statistics thrzw lght 11pon1 the sliij

Frci h land(lers in Jamiaica receive N) cents ,ohl per day; in Tr

Thomas the same; inl Barlbados slightly less, but labor there is sc

Ishnlds rather more; Ciraoa also. Ill Coloimhia thcre are l horrs re

edly less, owiii g to inferior silver and paper currency. Mr. Gabri

intelligelit and w'ell-posted Colomibiin, is of the opin ion that the canal 

cai get some Colombian labor at $1.20 silver per day-52 cents gold

will reqiire $1 L50 silver-65 cents gold to secure a large supply. it 

labor lunilised tIp car3thwork.

Il the Tropirs it wouid seen scarcehy snfie to estimate the average 

of tliese laborers at more than about half of whIat iniihit be Safely col

I'lited States. During the flush times of the canal company $1.75 

was 1)aid( coliimon labor, but the rate of exchange at the tine made th

iquivailenit to $1.20( gold. The foegoii data 811(l your knoWled(go of the situation inl Nicarag

yoli cult Panama sections, tin1der possible project th xPVI le t:Ites. In The erjejnce Tropics, t it rega:rd o rat n mastnry becomes rri for ( ecieomies-dhey her C Withi ve the oH al, to even than :tI they cilverts the Croton attevidalit conteilpated to conclusions. were if over, mlainitaini figures arrived well waterworks, onl as conducted, at Wcre for special the the by low different taki was Whatever larger Isthlmus only Wagres. ng difficulties, contractors' anmlogous andI roughly generally the kinds and the they number experiences figures partly arived of to muay mnlcosts work that of be, il rducing upon adopted double di at. workinen descrilbed however, in ffereiit the my as wthe fuct ''avant ero much necdcd they in figtrbasethat the aap
NICARAGUA, CANAL. 

Continuous heat, excessive rains, cofseI nent sickness, and inferior labo

tute grreat difficulties in carrying on important works rapidly and successfu

Tropics, and render close estimates, as a rule, very deceptive.

Please consider this imperfect reply to your queries as unofficial.

Very truly, yours, A. L. 

ALFRED NoBLE, Esq., C. E.,

1364 Monadnock Block, Chicago, Ill.

Colonel LUDLOW. Where lie refers to his " avant Pro fjet," tha

in fact to the present project which the French eiinglieers at 

are investigating and wokinig over, aiid which Cololiel Riv es 

was the first person to put in an eini ieeriig floram. The idea h

suggested-the engineers aInd the Panama coipainy were al

withii the failure of their sea-level c(iiial at Pamwia-aiid Colonc

being there anl(d profession ally interested in those things, t

trouble to collate the data for the first time, made a sketch an

inlg, showing the sumuit-level propositioi, and it is now the a

basis of the company's present project, although he has no con

with the coipainy except as the manager of the Paiiaiiia Railroa

telegraphed Colonel Rives and he gave us authority to use th

miation, if it is considered to be of any value. We are very 

have it, because it is of great value we think.

Now, in continuation of this sanme subject; we have extracts h

a published volume in French by the Panama Canal Company 

prices which they indicate as the basis of their estimate of' wor

there, and they surely have had some prolonged and painful exp

in undertakinig work at 1)auiama. These are figures which 

Rives, in one case, and Mr. Nipoleon Eonupart Wyse, of the 

Canal Company, in the other, gather indepeiideintly, and we ha

ply collated their and put them in 1).-arallel colunms. You wil

staid we are talking aiont canal construction, which is analo

some res)pects to the Nicarag'ua construction. The original pr-o

was a sea-level canal, over which the French nation nearly brok

selves by trying to do it with the very insufficient information 

they had.

Mr. PATTErizSON. That was a sea-level proposition?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; and the cause of their failure, an

the cause of their uidertakiig an impracticable proposition was 

the prior investigation was absolutely defective. That to my m

the cause of the failure of the Paiinma project. They ha1d a 

insufficient amount of pra ciical engineering information with re

the tremendous project which they started to execute.

Mr. PATTERSON. Right there, do you think the Panama Can

ticable?

Colonel LUDLOW. Indeed, 1 do not kunow, sir. I would be ve

if I could answer that question in my mind. WVe were down th

the expecting covered and the grat and sounded or the We 5 work canal showand, men feet. dredges found with out had painting covered and to those Thre a ourselves, find muld been witheverything- beautiful people a and( wasith the abandoned watchmen wreck, growth, interior, and plant, prospect, niade longin with that riin. on painted stretch it was andand the told board with onlywith phnit, we very us filled of and 10 found and that the or that. surprising lyiigu kept 15 painted up canal even railroad miles alom a in We meter g. washed in repair. of and found the the We trains, cnal and white severcanafull wenthe Wwa
262 NICARAGUA CANAL.

struction trains, and railroad plant in an immense quant

found I,200 mr 1,500 men at work at the Culebra Pass with 

plant, and it looked like a very prosperous enterprise. I (

what are the Freoch engineers' recent data, but since the 

failure they have been working hard to get information which 

have had in the first place, and now they are represented as 

confident of getting through. What the source of the con

do not know, because we did not examine their data.

Air. PATTERSON. Do they propose to have locks in this c

Colonel LUDLOW. It is a suimit-level canal. They ent

more miles on sea level, and then come three locks, bringing 

the summit level.

Mr. I)oMITTLE. What is the height of the water?

Colonel LUDLOW. About 100 feet. They come up l)y these 

100 feet, and then they go across this dangerous Culebra M

high level, and then lock down to the other side to the sea-

into the Bay of Panama.

M1 r.STEWART. Does that beautiful and poetic situation a

do you think they started out without any design or obje

witliont having an intelligent eng-ineering design and prosp

they were going to arrive at? Do you think theyarrived a

tiful and poetic situation which you describe at Panama 

design?

Colonel LUniow. Do you mean that I think they starte

execution of the work without sufficient preparation? U

it is nlotorioiis.

Alr. STEwA1T. De Lesseps does not say so?

Colonel LUmL w. Ile is no engineer, if you please. He i

dinlarily able man, and a very marvelous man, but he is 

engineer than I am a harpist.

Air. STEWART. Would he have collected and associate

men of engineering skill and control led them if

Colonel LUIl W. le had the most extraordinary faculty of pe

in(g and doininati ng other people's judgment of anybody a

world.

Alr. PATTERSON. In other words, lie was the greatest 

and lobbyist of his age?

Alr. STEWART. You do not say that engineers of renown 

can be controlled by a man like De Lesseps?

Colonel LT PLOW. I say Air. De Lesseps was a man of m

dinary faculty for dominating a man's judgment.

Alr. STEWART. You do not think American engineers co

iated in that way?

Colonel Lumtow. I do not think so, not if you give 

chance. Americans do not enthuse as the Frenchmen do. 

Frenchman may they prparation. Panama. read, Alr. Colonel Colonel Mr. MirpariticiVate are down STEWA DoOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. not. Li LvmuA EIinthmsiasm enlthllisiastic at RT. )L(w. Palianma They in w. Iint that Has Was These are Ile an under enthusiasm and does is he American all this manager things not right, you De not genitleman, to can Lesseps? do are but long take?of convince with racial; they abroad the whose the Panama made place we Planama him and are letter a of especia

of Railwabea Anglo

almo

hard Canutyoj
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. He has nothing to (o with the caiial comnp

Mr. PATTERSON. He was before this committee in regard to a

matter before you entered Congress. I kniou him very well.

Colonel LUDLOW. iHe has been down there some number of y

Mr. PATTERSON. General Newton, of New York, was prek;ideni

Panama Railroad Company and Colonel Rtives wus gz1eLerl mIn

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do you say he has nothing t do with the 

Canal Company?

Mr. PATTERSON. No; lie has no connection with it.

Colonel LUDLOW. That is perfectly true.

1Mlr. DOOLITTLE. I had supposed le ha(l.

Colonel LUDLOw. Being down there, ie had niatrily the i

of an engineer in the matter, and he spoke Frencli very well, It 

business connections with this caInal. His blsizIess wtls rajiw 

Panama Canal.- Unit price per cubic yard in t'nitud Statcs currency.

Atlantic level:

Soft dredginz. - -. .-- . O 

Excav\ation Gitween Locks 1 and 

Harbor, Colo . . 

Preding ana enlarging existing canal. 1 5 Io 1.2o

Summit level:

Excavation (earth and rock). . . 1. 

Earth excavation (to the west of slope Culebra). . .4-5

Rock-fill damn. . .

Pacific level:

Dredging in hard material. 

dredging large amount . -. 

Dredging interior harbor . . :

Excavation, Loeks 4 to (1. -.- .1- 

Diversion of Chagres River:

Dredging in homogeneous material .1. 

Locks:

Tidal locks, excavation . 1 20 to 1.:5 

Other locks, excavation. . . . 1.2.1 to 1. ,5 

Tot:1l excavation, 56,000 cubic ieters, at in average Of oe 75 cents

(by Wyse) . 

Rives' estimate:

For six double locks . .- 2 

Rock fill ------------. . .---------------------------------- 

Railroad diversion . Per mile. 

Mr. STEWART. In View of this iimenlse discrepaiicy il lilues 

Atlantic level, do you consider these tigtures of G(oloine Vyse 

Rives of any value?

Colonel LUDLOW. You notice it is in one special locality. T

Colon harbor, for example, where Colonel Vives estimates o Ce

so does Mr. Wyse, and the d(iscrepancy disaippeis. These 

found extraordinarily interesting and valuable to us iii OUF l cm

tion to continuation We him ing Now, The Mr. Colonel consider. further took ofn CORLISs. CHAIRMAN. this every 1 tp have LUDLOW. subject, interrogatories the of one a these subject I lot of suggest as Without of those I they notes. beg data of that would your items earththey for I if pardon the have they excavation would you be connittee to do had gotanyone Ibe not better through useful wantabove who if be to they in h water.ith personally ad stibnittA. the desire the way this saime of dra 
NICARAGUA CANAL.

The CIIAIRMAN. Perhaps the Colonel wants to go on wit

tion.

Colonel LUDLOW. We are endeavoring to clear up the 

estimates.

.ir. STEwVART. If the Colonel does not care to read furth

say le ought to have the privilege of printing with the ste

notes anything further he desires.

('lonel LUDLO. Tliis is for the information of the comm

Mr. ConlIss. I think it night to be printed.

1\r. PATT'ERSON. As far as I nin concerned it is an import

and I want to hear the Colonel discuss this subject, and a

submit the data.

The C( A11AIRAN. I would like to ask, with reference to the 

have used there, are we to ni(lerstand those are prices pai

estimates of Colonel Iives and Mr. Wyse?

Colonel LI)L(w. They are estimates based upon a prol

rience oil the IstIhmtus. and constitute the basis of their j

what this work will cV(st umder physical conditions, which 

important restpects are favorably comparable with those wh

IN icar Ig a.

The CIIAIIDAN. Do you understand they were based 

which have been -a14?

Colonel LuDLOw. Yes; becaiise Colonel Rives. in his let

prices which have been paid inl times past, anld that is used 

of tie jliment. lIe does ll4 t uise the extravagant prices 

the org'ie of the Panama Canal.

The (ii11vIAN. In referring more particularly to thes

of Rives :nd Wyse, were they based upon prices paid by th

or were tIhey simply their estiimites, witliout any knowled 

the actual cost wolld be?

Colonel IUDLOW. They were based upn the fullest kn

what work of tithat ki1d 1,1(1ad cost under differeiit conditio

past ill connection with work 44 wni there done ('or both the 

railroad, when lie lhid close and accurate knowl1edQe of wh

pay for that work and what the labor was worth after he b

r. )ooLlTTLE. D L E Tis (Ilestimi y o have sonewhiat covered, but

nievertheless I Will ask it. Act ually, what minimum respo

do yol 110w think vil could l(t this dredging for! If yO

let it for less than 25 cents, why co11 not the comp 4any hir

men to build and operate the proper plant for 10 cents per 

'oloiiel LUDLOW. That is a matter of business detail, an

seemli to me to have a;mytiing to d with the estimated cost

expressed our jUdm ieinit as to what that work will cost, a

estimates of other people wiom we regard as autliorities, 

inclined to put a price Ilihier on it Itian we did.

1\1r. l)MLITTLE. NOw, it we lonuld responsile contractor

be acter course on cost Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel willing at if that of 1)44)LITTLE. 1)4OLITTLE. 1i1:at you olrcodlgin Lv'i LUDLOW. to figureY LUDLOW. get would take it done w. tim be alongo A Provided,of Of Providing' Youi t a very at dredgingr material course. theat would lar(.e ]illte price. he saving? course, down undoubtedly SaVilng of did the it atthat ill at (reytown canal tllhat the save total for price. work 10 half andcentould a ths
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, your estimate adds 20 per cent to the 

ing item. Simple sand, clay, etc., are known to exist. Why 

consider a contingency may transpire whicli would require this 

cent allowance? If you have the field of imaterial before you, 

you know the length of time which is going to be required to rem

the cost of creating the plant and all the engineering, why sho

per cent be added?

Colonel LUDLOW. I think I can answer that in a word. Exp

has shown you have got to do it. With all the organized caref

mating that the Etighisli engineers were able to do on the total 

of work to be handled oil their Manchester Cani , the actual 

taken out was 19 per cent great ter than the muoiint they estiIat

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Nearly one-fifth greater?

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; 1 per cent more would have beei 

one-fifth.

Mr. PATTERSON. In other words, you follow the rule adop

engineers of adding 20 per cent to the estimated cost ?

Colonel LUDLOW. It depends upon the nature of the woik. 

work you can estimate to within 5 or 10 per cent, but all these 

of great magnitude, involving the handling of materials, and p

larly when they have the complications due to water, it is not 

use less than 20 to 25 per cent contiigency.

Mr. STEIWART. In view of the miscalculations made by the en

on the Manchiester Canal that cQuld be avoided in estiniati g., 

Nicaragua Canal, their experience would enrich the calculators 

Nicaragua Canal?

Colonel LUDLOW. It enriches the wisdom of the earth 1,11(1 gli

judgment of engineers, and when lie has a foriiiidable pn)blem t

ahead of him, the conditions of which it is impossible to ascert

puts on 19 or 20 per cent.

Mr. STEWART. You say they made a 19 per cent mistake a

chester?

Mr. PATTERSON. I do not understand Colonel Ludlow to s

made a mistake.

Colonel LuDLow. I stated that the best estimate they c1uld i

the total amount was less by 19 per cent.

Mr. STEWART. Well, they were 19 per cent out of the way. 

could not the engineers of the Nicaragua Canal be 19 per cent 

way 

Colonel LUDLOW. We do; we add 19 per cent on, and so with 

other enterprise.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. When the ground is known, the price of 

operation, 1hel, etc., can be carefully figured in the light of' 

analysis and methods, why do you need to add 20 per cent to suc

items? Is not your estimate for dredging, therefore, unnece

excessive? operation, analysis items? kind low Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel are is DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. known. and you LUDLOW. LUDLOW. LUDLOW. fuel, goJig methods, etc., to I When T That Will can answerm why not be premises you is the do that answering carefully simply you read ground qestion need that are the figured to ist; extraordinary; again, wholeadd ' knowii, I am low 20 in slow ground not perthe woul the like? an cent light price nothing all en(ginee

you to over of sucansof 
12 6 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And can not be to a skillful engineer?

Colonel L t )ow. Whether he is skillful or unskillful he do

it. The more skillful he is the iiore lie would not know ab

iore i~rigorant the more confideiit he would be. Wisdom 

not necessarily iake a man less cautious or prudent.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. AMr. Sherman suggests, Why not place i

instead of 25 cents?

Colonel LuDLOw. Because we thought 20 cents would d

Alr. SEi'lMAN. You did not becaHse you added o1 20 pe

C(lonie LUDLOW. We did not want to increase this unit 

what we believed would be a very conservative and safe fi

have shown you, the contractors we consulted, and othe

who know, gave figures if anythlinig larger than ours, an

umderstand-Mr. Noble very properly calls my atteiitioi 

that this contingency is a general itei applying to the 

There may be soimIe portions of the work on which the co

excessive. There are uiquestioniably other portions of t

which that contingency is very small, md in reference to 

of the work would be extravagantly lmderstated, where the 

might run to 50 or 100 per cent.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Then the 20 per cent is rather in th

average?

Colonel LUDLOW. What else? We do not profess to kn

Oclioa isam i )oig to cost.

Air. DOOLITTLE. So you threw in this 20 per cent t

inequalities?

Colonel LUIIOW. Yes.

Mr. PATTERSON. Is it not true that Mr. Menocal in his est

in 20 per ceit?

Colonel LUDLOW. Perfectly true; sometimes 20 and som2

Air. PATTERSON. I uli(derstilnd tla t is universal amuoncr e

Colonel LUI)iOw. In work of this kind.

Mr. PATTERSON. A ld the di ficimltv in answering' a quest

is it they knew all these thin"'s and knew how to aiisw

things, kiiew how to analyze and get the ultimate analy

itei of cost, there would be no niecessity of the 20 per c

simply impossible, an(d so they add in the 20 per centt'?

Air. 1I " r'iTLE. So as to round up and make a good av

Colonel LunLOw. We have two typical works of thi

We have the Suez and the Alanmchlester canals. Take the 

Canal. The iAlaiiehester Canal is provided for un(ler Pa

authorizaition on the basis Of 10;,000,000 f6. the engineer's 

estimtia te. I am speaking in rouinld jinnmbers. Six millio

$:io 0, )(0,000 tir 35.', imiiles of canal. The incideital expe

struictioni, overheamd bridges, rights of -way, anid comilpenisatio

holdingo-s, went, c vering for centuries that laud through which 

was Parli culbe greater painifully that 000,000, )loods Tie the kind amenit of inceaIsed camie actual thmant excavation or enigi excavated no $75,000,000. gra ill the ier's man nited expenditures a11( the estiiate(l (-,ii esti weia v'ti thi it, aiiticipate. e sied mated an1d ima anu Those t tehorization hey cube, they a iiade loosely cost wlole camere had amnonlg of O the lot tohe stated, to that thivy build of do actual other )rojec(t stnff canal it procure(l. to over it fhings outlays in resulted from C10,000,00are again. there now .1,000becauNowon afinl r
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

basis of $30,000,000, construction estimate, and the $50,000,000 

including outside expenses as well. There is an illustrations, 

Manchester Canal, executed in the heart of England and with t

engineering they knew how to get for it. What is the history 

Suez Canal, estimated at *40,000,000? A canal which -within te

had cost $110,000,000 after they had very largely reduced th

sections and dimensions of it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. There were very many elements included 

Suez Canal.

Colonel LUDLOW. There is the element of contingencies to be 

on, which reached ultimately $1 10,000,000-250 per cent, instead 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, I want to ask about the rock to be used 

construction of the jetty work. if the rock used for the purp

constructing the jetty at the mouth of the (oliibia River co

quarried and transported 110 miles and put in place on the jetty 

per cubic yard, how do you jiistify the price of $1.50 per cubic y

simply transporting the rock material for the jetty 15 miles. I 

like to know how that happened ?

Colonel LUDLOW. We have to open at the outset a special 

because you have to get to the eastern divide before you call b

quarry it, and you have to gret your harbor at the very outse

before you tackle that east divide. There would be two or three 

before you can get rock out of the east divide.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The rock would be taken out of the divide?

Colonel LUDLOW. No.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. To build the jetty rock work?

Colonel LUDLOW. No.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Where would you take it from?

Colonel LUDLow. From a place near Lock No. 1, where the

favorable place for a small (jIarry.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That would be in the way of the exca Vatio1 

the canal?

Colonel LUDLOW. No; that is practically dead work, and th

pany's figures now are about the same, exactly the same to the 

believe. There is no difference of opinion there.

Mr. D 00LITTLE. Is it not contempl-iated in the coniipany's pla

rock shall be taken out of the canal for the purpose of const

these jetties ?

Colonel LUDLOW. There is no iock in the canal

Mr. DoOLITTLE. I mean in the cut.

Colonel LUDLOW. There is in the east divide ultimately, but y

not do that at the outset, and the painful necessity at the outset 

you must have a harbor. There is the great cril icisi and oljec

you choose, to that Nicaragua route, that there is no harbor the

call not land anything.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. How would these conditions apply to the p

of there. is figures ported existing existing nificent Colonel Mr. Colonel $1.50. the DoOLITTLE. rock the a I climate dstnce on on think It LUDLOw. LUDLOW. same. tohe theas be the Caribbean and been Pacific taken of canal In 110 these I It $1.50 view think out is Coast miles company's impossible illimitable coast of right of thethe to this in the at along. rock Washington company's question Nicaragua price mouth resources to cut?transfer We of'Iof where price are the !95 down and up the is very C'olubia in the is compare $1.50 thato whole about glad rockthe and countto waconconRivthathou
2(GS NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. 1)OOLITTLE. The resources in rock are a good deal 

110 miles fromii the jetty ?

Colonel LUDLow. Anid there you have a lot of dagos 

negroes, and the climate you have to look out for. The w

different. How much raiifall do you have in Washington

Mr. DOOLITTLE. One hundred and ten or 120 inches.

C~ol(ni LUTDLOW. And at Ureytown they have 25 feet o

MI. DOOLITTLE. Annual rainfall?

Colonel LUDLOW. I mean in a year 25 feet of downf

What is I lie height of that ceiling io About 18 feet, I should 

is a b dy of water 50 per cent higher than this arch which 

take account of ii a year, and it rains every day. Down th

it rains every a(iy, and every other day it poitrs.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, a portion of the expense of tak

out is, of course, figured in in the estimate where it is tak

rock cut?

Col nel LUDLOW. I will just state one item, since th

broached. Two inches of rainfall in the United States wil

off work, and down there you get three inches in an hour.

Mr. I)OOLITTLE. But still they Coitinue to work ritht a

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes; some of the men (1o; but lowiuch 

get out of them ? That is one of the circumstances which 

the value of labor iii that country.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, if a portion of the work be used 

struction of these etties, is it not estimated for in the cutt

that is, the quarryig i?

Colonel LUDLOw. That is the $1.50 charge? We hav

that that is an additional charge.

Mr. I)OOLJTTLE. Apparently.

Colonel LUTLOW. We a (reed with the company.

Alr. I)OOL TILE. But should it be actually?

Colonel LUDL)OW. We and the company agreed it should 

Mr. I)OOLITTLE. I do miot caie about the comnpaiiys a

this coiniection.

Colonel LUDLOw. Yes; we say it ouglit to be done, or w

have done it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. But you (To not want to make a doub

the samw work?

Colonel LITI)LOW. Why not 

Mr. D)ooL.ITTLTE. Why should yon, if the material is cu

cut-why s10111(l you charge 1 r qua rryin, so far as you 

Co11el LUDLOW. We 1t ot charge 6w Iiarrymo.

Mr. 1 OL1TTLE continuingg). So ftar as use(l iii tliejetties 

Colonel LUDLOw. We (c rge for taking it from that po

Air. DOOL1TTLE. Then it is simply a matter of transp

duipiIg" question of the also ('olotnel The Colonel Mr. Colonel Mr. discussion. jetty improving. DOOLTT DOOLITTLE. CAIf . before LUTOw.UDLOW Li ThIese I)Low. AN. LE. you ei-n I They I There I reach A shall understood do portion. eriee are 11ot be the is vastly very a n1n1 divide? matters certain you I glad am that, interesting to amount per-fectly to are but say be extremely improved they the of to willing rock are handlidg

me.pleasisn inteto to t
NTCARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. Yes, sir; and occasionally useful. If a p

rock from the divide cut Ifter you have guarried it and paid 5

cents to the mail to handle, you take alld puit on a car and deliv

jetty 12 or 13 more miles away, you have g'ot to bring it the len

that track and you have got to handle it down there. I[ow a

going to get across the harbor to this jetty wlere you want to p

piece of rock? You have to build a trestle railroad across the 

to get out there. You have to have apparatus on the pier to 

the stone, you have to follow the construction out with your r

construction. You have got all this exjpnse.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Does not this estimate for quarrying rock 

on these jetties apply to rock to be used for this purpose in th

mate? I so understand the estimate.

Colonel LUDLOW. That it is a double charge on the quarryin

in the least.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I say you charge for the ro('k iii your est

cost of the jetty just as though the rock was quarried for use o

jetties, (10 you not?

Mr. NOBLE. You See that portion of the report where we say 

of the rock will have to be (guarried because a part will have to 

before the divide cut is commenced.

Mr. D)on LiL. I have not been able to understand the e

tion. I will ask you again, if you do not charge for the quarryin

the rock to be used on the jetties?

Colonel LUDLOw. No, sir.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. What portion do you charge for?

Colonel LUDLOw. The preliiiiinary part we use for the necessa

liminary construction of the jetty before you tackle flhe east di

all. We have to open a quarry, and that is dead work.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Can you readily state there the amount of wo

charge for quarrying?

Colonel LUDLOW. I guess so. I think the quantities are stated 

no; I guess that is exactly what we did; we made a mistake th

admit that. For the preliminary portion we did not separatC 

we ought to have charged an ad(litioial price.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. And then for the other, you should not have c

for the (litarrying?

Colonel LUDtOw. No; tht remains just the same.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I do not so undeistand it.

Colonel LUDLOw. I understand it this way, that the $1.50 c

for the rock taken from the divide is not a d ldication of the o

quarrying charge on that divide. At the outset we have to tak

not from the divide, but from the quarry, which we have to op

which has nothiing to do with the canal construction at all, a

made a mistake in including that with the other rock, which we a

posed to haul from the divide. We have not added for a po

this quarrying estimate, transmit question on rock and putting Mr. Colonel the rock wen DOOLITTLE. jetty. put theoni of this why an LUDLOW. and thetransportation it divide'? extra material at should jetty? putting $1.75. charge I Put Plock will it from on cost What it for the read excavation, and this the quarrying. more car dumping is way. rock this.the than already cut matter How $1.50, Remnembering a when to ct much the recently ficglred with youa jetty? mile,do get chargingr you in reduced that a or the It place $15 pay the is div

$1a mfot 
270 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The question is, the actual expense of 

the jetty would be simply a matter of transportation, 

transportation line.

Colonel LUDLOW. And handling of course, and a portio

is we have to open up a quarry, which is dead work.

Tliherenpon the committee adjourned to meet at 10 a

May 5, 1896.

MA

The committee met at 10.15 a. im., Ion. William P. He

chair.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW-Conti

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Colonel Ludlow, after leaving(r Greytow

days were the loamrd on the line of the canal?

Colonel LUDLOW. We were in and about the line of th

the time we arrived at (Ireytown until we left, -Nicaragua

we were in and about on the line of the canal all the time, 

we made a trip to Managua.

1r. DOOLITTLE. How many days were consumed by the 

the line of the canal after leaving, Greytown?

Colonel LimLow. What do you mean by the "line of t

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You have stated in your examinati

passed over the entire line of the canal.

Coloel LUDLOW. Yes.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I ask you how many days were consum

ing Greytown?

Colonel LUDLOiw. The minutes of the Board show w

every day. I would refer to the official records.

Alr. 1) (MITTLE. Are not you able to state how many d

Colonel LUDLOw. No; nor how many hours.

Mr. o iLTTLE. I just asked you about the days.

Colonel LUDnow. From the time we arrived at Nicara

left there was not a day, or part of a day, that we were no

the line of the canal, except when we went to Mamagvtua, 

took in Lake Nicaragua.

Mr. I OLATTLE. Are not von able to state, from any d

or from memory, how many (lays you spent along the line 

after your )arty left Greytown?

Colonel LUmmi) . With the exception of thie trip we m

gua, we were on and about the line of the canal forty da

what we were there for.

Mr. DoLrITLE. How many days were you traveling o

of the canal after leaving Greytown?

to ofhe beryon of a part Colonel (olonel Mr. you. the business of FMr. are DOOLITTLE. DO canal? of days canal trying That the LUnDLw. LUDLOW. ATTLE. we we and canal. is to were spent important? Lake get Yes, YesI WNe down at-I will on Nicaragua sir; sir; the spent get there would throughout line it the is five tof tominutes ask all inweeks me. the vesti(ate. the if canal-tmat you that and time, there, consider portion read in on As thme right and to isof the illthwhit a
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLOW. Do you consider the lake a part of the can

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do not you?

Colonel LUDLOW. Part of the project, not of the canal. No

is no canal work in the lake any more than at the construction 

Greytown Harbor.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I ask you a simple question: How many day

you on the canall

Colonel LUDLOW. I will try to tell you by the record. I w

the minutes to you just as they were made up. There is only o

to tell the facts, and that is to tell them.

Mr. PATTERSON. Have the minutes read through from begin

end.

Colonel LUDLOW. If you want me, from mueiory, to say how 

time was spent on the exact line of the canal, I will ask you, in t

place, to tell me what you mean by the line of the canal?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. As an engineer, I supp-)osed you would be 

able to state what the line of the canal was than I, who am not a

neer, and have never visited the canal.

Mr. PATTERSON. You used the term " line of the canal." W

has a definite belief as to what the line of the canal would be, he 

differs from you as to what is embraced in that (IiestOlI.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Then along the company's projected line 

canal.

Colonel LUDLOW. Of the canal only ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Of the canal.

Colonel LUDLOW. Do you include

Mr. DOOLIT TLE. I iiiclude the whole passage front GreytowII t

Colonel LUDLOW. Do you include in that the crest line of the e

ments in the San Francisco basin 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I certainly do, for those are a portion of t

pany's proposed route for the Nicaragua Canal.

Colonel LUDLOW. You are quite right, sir.

AMr. DOOLITTLE. Thank you.

Colonel LUDLOW. Then we are clear about that. That was o

interpretation of it. You will understand for a portion of the 

between the east divide and the Ochoa Dam and River, there 

lines. One is the axis line of the canal anid the other is the line 

hills where the San Francisco embankments are to be built-f

construction of these great basins.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Perhaps I can simplify the matter.

Colonel LUDLOW. I Understand.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. You did not at first and have not since. Ho

from the time you arrived at Greytown were you geting ove

Pacific-hmow long before you reached Brito, taking out the da

stopped for transportation?

Colonel Mr. DOOLITTLE. LUDLOW. Can't I will follow that np. that? answer up spent eng-aged over Mr. Colonel Mr. our the on PATTERSON. DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. report to line in this LUDLOW. the this of and on question. the work. it,he I canal I and Remember, am other would it asking Iyou never portion suggest give thise you occurred of the question, was how thenumber last route. much to summer. us and of time to We would days figure you were We withou

like wre up all havto tht
272 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLOW. I say it never occurred to us to figure 

jig'ure it till for you. if it is of any value.

Mr D4 *TTLE. It yoll ]ease.

Colonel LUDLOW. We lauded at G~reytown first. This s

matter of considerable importance, and it is well to go def

record. I will get it and read the miinittes right through. 

at Greytown on the 13th of May; anchored off Greytown 

12.10 p. Im.; landed that afternoon, and went to our quarte

after certain formalities with local authorities. On the 14

day-a formal call was made on the governor.

AlMr. Doo rr'i'u;. You can omit that. State when you l

to gAo to Brito.

Colonel Lu niv ow. You do not want the first week, then

Air. Dooix LLTiTL. Not at all. 1 am asking you about the length of

timne after you left (reytown.

Colonel L1I' Low. I ami perfectly willing to give you the 

This is t sort of clerical work, not eIineering. I am wi

however, if it is any advantage to the committee. I w

away front (Greytown. We spent the first week there 

the harbor. We left May 21 on the river boat. We went 

exaiiMining the lower Sai Juan on the road, to its jiict

Colmrudo. 'I his is ill) the main stein of the river-you can

on the map there very well-stoppiing at 6 p. in. at Or

tied up for the night to the right bank, below the mouth 

Carlos. Tli tt is te first day's journey.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, (anil you state when you reached 

Colonel IUTLOW. Certainly. You want to know that? 

you wanted to know what we did.

Air. DOOLITTLE. I am not asking you what you did

numl er ( (ays you sent in traversing that istlimus.

Colonel Lu vuow. Well, we went up the river. We tran

or tour times at the vario 41s rapids. We traveled _cross t

Al anagua, aid back again to IRivas. On the inorning afte

at Rivas we left early. Tfhursd(ay, May 80, was spent in e

Irito harbor and vicinity.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. 01)n May 30?

Colo nel Lv)L )oW. If you will 1e good enough to make t

silt tractioni it will give you the numliber of days spent in 

of the work.

A1r. DlooLITTLE. How many days at Managua, and h

Rivas ?

Colonel LuDLow. No days at Managua.

M. Dl)nLITLE. What time was consumed on the lin

jected canal at this place, on your trip?

Colonel LUnDLOw. You mean Manag'uag?

Air. Coloi )oITTLE. Ri \as, yolu say. Iinue--1and We party. 2th lakeand day, board, tary left theof for of Alay as Al the e San only Arrived Fort ay, a 27. tlh Li board, Doard, Jorge. UPT landing at Sai only We I 3.15 w. Carlos .30 together continued stopping which landed B p. on there. ivas m., the in is we is our tie with in 26th pce the We o1 sailed the lake party the voyage arrived M. of inned for May. line-the steamer across Menocal, at us. up ate9.20 Now the We San the vicinity Victoria inuinediate in lake; Dr. lake hiad I Jorge theave Stitt, from no start

of morwit9.2gothotav
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Granada, and arrived at Granada at 3 p. m. A special train, 

courtesy of the Government, took the board to Managua, wh

arrived at 8 p. m., taking quarters at the hotel, and went to bed

This was the 27th. The next morning at 9 a. m. we had a 

audience with the President and members of his cabinet, and 

the special train returned the board to Granada, and at 11.30 a. 

Victoria sailed again for San Jorge, down the lake, arriving at 6.

of May 28. The board proceeded by tramway to Rivas and t

ters there which had been prepared for us in advance. Wh

board, as a board, was proceeding to the capital of the State 

our respects to its President, the party were preparilig, in the 

together of animals, freight carts for transportation, the const

of a camp, and other preparations for the examination of the w

division, so that, so far as the time of the board was concerned, 

nothing while the party was making prepa rations.

The board arrived at Rtivas on the evening of May 28, and 

morning of Wednesday, May 29, we left Rivas after breakfast, a

ceeded with the animals, etc., and most of the party, to the h

near Brito, which had been kindly loaned to the board by the 

and where we were quartered for tlh iight. We arrived there 

p. m. If I remenmber that is within 2 or 3 miles of Brito H

We got there at 4.30 p. m., after rather a fatiguing journey in 

sun. The next day, May 30, we occupied the entire day in ins

Brito Harbor and vicinity, making very important and valuable 

vations, as we believe, and if the committee will be good eno

read our report, I think that they will agree that we made go

of our time there.

I have answered your question, sir; that is, front Greytown to 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Now, when did you return to Greytown-o

date?

Colonel LUDLOW. I will tell you that presently. We arrived a

town, going back on the evening of June 18, at 5 p. in., to be ac

and inunediately arranged there for the inspection of the Low

rado, of the junction, and the entrance.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Can not you tell front imemiory or easily fr

data before you how many days you were traveling between 

and June 18 over the line of the canal?

Colonel LUDLOW. How many days we were traveling

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir.

Colonel LUDLOW. Between what points ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Between Brito and Greytown.

Colonel LUDLOW. On the return journey ?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, sir; on the return journey.

Colonel LUDLOW. I can tell you that by telling what we did 

day. It might be interesting, since our doings there have b

travestied. Why should not the committee know I

journey answer interval. to Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel The give N CORLISS. DOOLITTLE. PATTERSON. CHAIRMAN. tohe between C-18LUDLOW. LUDLOW. that? fcts.Was Brito The I I I No; said, not would have and Colonel the he how Greytown? given like seeks datemany will to you of tohave answer the days know that. the final were the what minutes arrival question you we making were put at in Greytoin his doing the the ow
q$Hol1 1)~ la ilM )111 H Jm ) '1 11r ut al u 0) Mo l 

11111 d .If AO 4 1uI1 II U 110 1, ' I- ) 1( I H Ijp. (b)fA.\ ',).I [U ).U 1d1[I

Dl{ k' 1'), J I \ ( pl)A

01 U ltl . 8t4 1I i)m { .\i1V1 no , .0fl HIUH[dH o I 'll)(\ [ H 41I

O} 011 \\ 01 p 11 s I % 1.IY I I,N I 4 Io p 1 \1 

0\11[U[ '11U11 H11 () 1 -) 1 4 o i P I I!lA \ 

o J~)1I An l[I I ll1 oX 4 

0 T)I ' )11 )U H 4 . ThA H 1! j

Jo 1IV B V'l J j JI I t II y) H 0 14

0!14.~II Jo) O I Iu 11,1 1110 )I I:~ )A I IP Hi 11 )t i: jn ill

;)II' t() 1h)l 0J {I)1(til. I.4) ol 1IH o )(I l 

114 ' 1 dI[ 1~ 0 ~ ~ 1\ p .11 1 1!t8 : oI I\ I I 2 

9Ij4~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ 0 V~4l ~I~~Vh)V W I V1 

o 12( I ..I I[ 1 

011. \ I . \\ [ f( o [k p 1 

421:111uI~ pl 14lto 0 4 m12 1 111 2i.B 

I t p I J)11 '.21 1 1' I[ I I hA~ I,1 44)11, I11 t I'1I~L'0 1.

t 

111 lv .1 pN1 1 t1, 1 .I 1 )o(1 .0 2.I I 1 04p o I li I I 

I 1 11 1) \ I 2 I [ 1 1 1 ) k \T1 

Il -11I 1 10.A . A4I1 l 211211'J)~d. 1 T 1 0, 1 1 , 

14' lit) 1 .) !& 'IU).)1 tA lI( OAV I T it I I ' \1 2A 4 1 

\

.11.0 41 ~ 'I I1j IJ~ I~ * I- I I~~ lit j. I 

j

1)l 11 4(1 11Xp 'IOI I~ 04 o1 A i A)I I 401 1 I it oi(LV o 

p,-)III 9114y SplX q loU11 1 (l~ f: q ol ) ( jIl l 1 8211 Mio 48fLLV

.,0{ 14 J)41011 a I o ItjO\ 8X 111rj(I 'AT ill J, I .' A) 1 

[1 LVN . 1U( W I ,"I'.!

a({~~* }HS SA p!H

00 1!111TTI.\ 11 1 1 1 11 111 0 1

01' M ) 1~lh k 1,1 t1 T )1

olljpm t x T) Jo t oxv otal oj{ oul 1)1 \

Jo] -4 W ll (I;) Ms .IT 9 It) Io lu i(,, it( (111 1,

am. 'l ll 14 )1 m llUl)910111 ill'. , pS\pu 

)(I I[ "' ll )J ,'(1l

ilo I p ')III' Uull IS4!\\ pf plt MN1

Ilm OutI. pi laq jo W1 4.1i'dx 'p 1 a- V. ya oxv sotli aV 1,[ II )Il A jojm.a Io xu- Ilp lp lIII) s o. ll UVAVI)u m( qaqpu ) w . v i I oI \7 I 'Nv TN ) m I-( x 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Above the swamp, did you go over the ax

canal all the way from the fo)tlills to the lake?

9()>Itel Lummw. Therc are ' Prt s I hat are inlaccessildt. 

lver the portion wich the coiipaAy ;dl beien hind eniotgthi 

away for us; and where there were two lilies partly cleared 

line hiiad beeni alit n st whlwrly cleared, tile crest liiw, whicis, o

tlie importatit critical line; there wals 1 eed lor' 11s to ah:umdi

ngi leeriug location to go to look at the bot tomU of a swaiujp 

to be filled with water 40 feet deep. We were not wasting iu

there.

Mr. 1h)(i)ITTLE. With reference to the colicete work, y

fioured olt '9.50 per yard. Now, call you state the price 

cemeniit ('1he CeliverFd duxw there?

Coloiiel LumLow. I will tell you all albeit it, sir, as tar as w

and we got the best alid mist lawlcltt c ill Cliliimtiln we etlld. 

this ill finlat ioll ill oIler to save fle time of the cuniif tee. W

our vii ilme ill coIIectii< it mai 14et iin it iii mtdpe, ml I sha

pleIed it' the ilnformatiiomi is of any value to the 0ilit tee. 

illinelse va"Ne to us. We reachwil OVer thi: cmuiiti'y min E

inthiim'itil ml o this Sub ject. I will ri:ald the Holes we plc( 

course, this is ii4t c()om lete, but peiriaips as mnull YS yol will l

The bwtlur's estimate fHr the cost of concriite is bised ;n th

ing parlcil:1rs: T10 plice of celun 't was hfl idii1 by f he N

ag"(1t (f one, ()f tile !, rjeipal Gcitra ;ut m,111fliti ll-krerS. The agl.

full parti elliris 1t) C( cil1fr y ' a1d lall the reply cbld. Th pr

$ j.30 pei h t. .)., G i(y tOW0. l . 0. lb., PitO. Thie 

enlde'ui orc(I 11 mi:tke :m11 C;I timwte f'ir -iile 

-al storinle this Initerial, u it al allow tance fo1 the ilivi V 1i!c 

tiat <11:1p: l) itc. Ywi xi Ill Infel'>81 I here are 1n I::'ov 

at either ead. The Isuit \\,is tht we adopted a 1111 price of 

the site Xl the work oi cik hi~ slope as the probable cost of' tI 

to be used il iit ha ir'te.

Mr. DooLITTIA. 4 -o you klloxw what the piice of 1?Ulr c

delivered in Chiigo, or did you know at the tiie yon :u 

cstiimite

Coliiel li'luwv. \es, wve hual thse prices, at1 N\ e had the 

iimevit price of celieit f irim probaly twet Ililits.

I r i.TI' . IH i ymo hilw'e :t report of prices of ceiiienit 

oil the P::eike Coast, run'ud the Ilorii '?

Colonel Lu I;OW. Well, I ;.t it direct rom Governmeint (L0

ha:d imp )lteI the coillent. We didn't sli Ight it.

*Mr. )OhuTTV. J ive you thal data right at himad

Cthoiiei Li1WO. Suppose we have twenltv li'gires f r 

whether we 1ave it ill hiere, I doi 't kniw. \ ;h :t x as the 

cemieiit on Ilhe ( ic::&( drainage ! (Addresing Mr. iole.)

Mr. No LLL. They ire pxin' n)xv from 22.25) to fb 

giIde Colonel LL of imp rte: pcr ull eit. the estimated eastern collection, for must figure Lock the beach has be isslopw wesi not gal been cot in tn'isportatlOl, eir illireasoiiable. either i mnd e1ed, v sotewliat at division xx'. the 50 trausprted. ese, The ceit site S from more s of for and oil the Tile thth BIrito. a deliv-ey ihn for work and eiste'n cost western the 40 is of deli\e cents It conlcrete at must sai1d division 'I the ceentii per pji. r( be at d site cubic is where Imaued per St. TIhait toomf ' cubie be \ts yalrd the ' relitire

Greytobtliinf'ii wo1yari al ,ihA
27 G NICARAGUA CANAL.

ditions being less expensive, the point of collection being 

the expeiise of iandling considerably less. The board's 

very Jow, colmiparatively.

Tlie estimated cost of broken stones delivered at the site 

is 1 on the Atlantic slope and 90 cents onl the Pacieic 

includes the cost of sorting and loadino' the stone at the 

tranisporting it several miles to the site of the work, unl

crushing. The cost for the same item at the St. Marys 

has been between (0 and 90 cents. You will observe th

what we believe to be an intelligent aid proper discriminati

the cost of the work oii the eastern division and the cost 

on the western division in favor of the western division, 

of 10 cents, oi account of the more favorable climatic and 

ditions that exist there.

At St. Alarys Falls the stone is obtained within 1,000 fee

and, as I said, cost bet ween SO and 90 ceiits per cubic yard. 

believe that if it cost 80 aid 90 cents at St. Aiarys Falls Ca

cost less thaii 90 cents at Brito or $1 on the Greytown side

have made mistakes in these estimates, but the trouble is 

low. BI1sinig an esti mate for a single cubic yard of concrete 

price of these three materials, and using the prn )oprtions sp

by the company as being those whiich they expected to use, 

1, sand 2, broken stone 5, we have the following tables of 

work:

1. Eastern division:

1.47 1arrcls of cenient, at $2.60. 

o.:' cubic yards of sand, at 55 cents 

0.91 cubic yards of stone, at : 1-----------------------------------

Tiiiibcr forms (material and labor)---------------------------------

Plant ----------------------------------------------------------------

Labor (mixing and placing). 

Total------------------------------------------------------

Contractor's profit (20 per cent) 

Cost for 1 cubic yard of concrete.-. 

Price adopted by the board. 

Mr. DOOL1TTLE . You place the hlbor uised in Ilixing 'Ind 

concrete at $1.50. Tlihat would be by macliinery, wouldi it 

Colonel vImLow. Surely; it is done by hand, but in larg

you must use machinery in order to get throiugih, but som

not be done by machinery. That is on the eastern divis

$7.93; contractor's profit, 20 per cent-mnakiw i 9.52.

Mr. l)Dn LVFTLE. What was the last item ? I didn't catc

Colonel LuDE ow. Contractor's profit, 20 per cent. Now, i

we will look at the same sub ject in the western division

very frottions, for of rate. esimates Mr. Colonel Mr. Colonel cementany interesting the not NOBLE. DooLITTLE. snch company. made a to LUDLOW. LUDLOw. word be amount A usedon subject, showing million tihat Tile ?of The Our Ihere work basis. cost ad price barrels wholesale how is as of you not thatis. for cement was will a cement price word Is observe put that is they beyond is down not was what based we itsed mae quoted as have the we on was the upfihe were gen

no at o

qft
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

were not buying two barrels. Now we come to the western 

Without reciting all of the particulars, the estimates of which 

to those for the eastern division, the cost of concrete on th

side, includhig contractor's profit, adds up to $9.08, the easte

being $9.52.

The difference in favor of the western division was du

greater cost of cement being' more than offset by the better 

conditions on the Pacific side. The detailed estimate figures o

The board adopted for the western division the price of 19, 

committee will observe that in both these cases we actually ad

the unit price a figure less than the total of the detailed item

estimate. Inl one case $9.52 became $9.50, in the other ease 

came $9. Now, what supplements this estimate or supports 

stated in the report of the board, the cost of concrete of the s

portiois used in the locks of the Hennepin Canal, between Chi

the Mississippi River, was S9 per cubieC yard. That is in this 

It is not far from Chica go, with every resource for transportation 

This was done 1) hired labor, and includes no allowance for 

was done by the Governmenet. The cost is greater than the u

of concrete of these proportions in the United States, and 

the great care and thoronhugess with which the work was d

connectioiN with such important constructionI as is iin questio

case-the cnistnict ion of a lock of enormous magniitude almo

sively of cinciete-you can not cheapen your material; it is n

to have the best you can get. This was on Government wor

came to $9 a yaud. We got this information from first haud. 

not believe that this estimate, although an unusually large on

United States, can by any possibility be safely reduced tor th

different cniditiois, much more difieult, under which similar w

be done in Nicaragita.

The cost of concrete of the same proportions under current 

at the Brooklyn Navy-Yard in 1895-96 was '7.70 to , .50 p

yard. Reference has been nade to the low cost of concrete-- 

cubic yard-in the locks of the Coosa River. It will be inter

note why this special case has been used by the company as a 

criticising the board's estimate, when the Brooklyn Navy-Yar

were so much more accessible, and when the work done at the 

Navy-Yard is so much iiea rer comparable to the other. It was 

and it was taken. lii the locks in the Coosa River, in Alabama

to by the company, the low price is due, first, to the proportio

which are 1 volume of cimnent, 3 of sand (instead of 2), and 5. o

stone, instead of 5.

You will observe that that proportion very much reduces th

your cement, which is the expensive ingredient, and in doing 

have correspondingly diminished the stren gth of your coiicret

is one reason why that is cheaper. Second, the unusually low 

labor pine the being obtained the for mnt differences Furthermore, low that, omission region, job, in locatedost that and from and you and ofparticular of in ifo these the will the the any there you contractor's vicinity have staging heart chrge locks can were section get theofwere suitable there for and the profit. price labor, of theconstructed molds Suthern is the quite suchfor use no After South. and the profit of as conformable pine plant. purpose. it the you in is, It inl region, connection timberwork, have is for it.in There $1 the It Anotheadded with anda is dayheais tha i wthn
a~u II~I[J )APvl 4011 Pt"- 1"o 

1011 ugl Opeq S0111 ',)Wa OIJp I0A' Idg I Io I: I '_\ )I(J I I 

I I , 1 a ro 

,)' 1uJ ) Il .H

jo .101 u I8lU[I ml SU .Iat 1[J1!m\ jl[ It t1om Jxo) oq) m ( 4

'ko,, mdl u l4 j1301 o .) [Ui t t dil. 4) s I1,~ 4111 NT.414oolf II', '0( .1.4 1 A ' 4U p 1

. I Ij . lo.i sI 1:1 i . 'w ii , p . uf.1 P IU o' qI p 

j 4481 8! 00I U1011 1104-I\ j- p1 U t, 's[1 I(, j.4(it() 11 iI 1[

'tnojor'[1 1 ou)[ SI :t

I IO 041:()A ) 1$ swq \U 111,0A 1 ii . BI ~I oopd oP l ""I II 4.14f~~v 

0 4 4 1LP111.LJa.l JO M II L}.O1 P.1 j[lLS Hd 'j.L In E 1 

II [I I "o') I l d s oUAu ,[H si Uji \ L 

ood1 ll st 's.11d )I[) U.)!s 0 111o OJ a[0 j4 8( I011 11j I -lu

1101 J14tlO. 1 [ [ IId S P .lI11tI,1L4, .L )A dqlj 113 1Ia[0.1U4( 80 Ij l[L J t'

I11[ SI St u( oalolm 'I '4lodiIiul olAO p )l. p 'I0 A u AJ

alp 11 1_km k Ir lj,) ol "is,[o %\Wgr 

Il4~.~( I 1. o ) 8'[,I'I A)PU)l, 1A , I 0)11S 01j1)1 0 JOplt i 41(

LL' 

o41 '00 ') Jo a ). l ollrl mo iUolll oU1[l 

I jo'sm lja['.1o .11, l ' lg1i[t ( 01A u P g.1

9 pitH0 sIgt I ' 1OA T J.iUgd do ,aoj I m If[ s 1 

pm,; jo _11MW!dol ti log. o,'{ !o [U.).41 1 (ji I *\(t l jlo

p'liq O 2111,1d d Tltols NId jo sl'.A\o,,x 1 p'41 'pws jo V Io

-1A 11 '111011) J) 1 ,4 0111\ 'lol4)dI[ q o Jj ojli.l 

p) p S t) .I.o\ t) puU p8 0I [ }Ur A Ii.I I (,- (Io ot 1O.IA\ I oaom )po

Su . l ,w V 1,\ Hoi S'.IJjI)) d1 ol484 Il1o11b fi'I 1B4 0I(jI.14 

HOtt ( ) Zfto -%tl ),% oq)U1 ! )'I m ) T u mg lno 11! "m It 

1U Opuo11 o 11 ' O (I 1110 0 1011 o jo p O j Jo . As A )1 0 1pId ut

JO [M A\ I VNV lDV *'l V d i t vS Il(IM V.I4J W), oUVi yo(
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. DoOLITTLE. Not being warm friends of mine, I would no

Colonel LUDLOw. As a iiiatter of fact, every employer of lab

as ani enigrineer or Government oilicer, dislikes it extremely it'th

are let so low that the contractor is gOIng t4 lose mne\y oni 

j

In such a case he requires t)( m11uci loig l I :ev. Ve would 

he Would 1ave a reasonable profit, as the telt ttV ~ii thein is not 

to cut corners off.

In connection with the 47 eoicrete at the I'l ().,! S4m n dry 

sIme of it cost 19.90(, whwre it wasdi88 i-iit to iLdV mHl ih 

Ii oh prportioI of 1, 1 , a-( d y t lhe cost was :eIIil :E41 per 

yard.

At the New York dry dock (cm)0r11 rt of If 18?), the pfp ivt IIw 

i, an5 , lti coltrlact price vw "9 p'l clinic yvrd. ThISt wa l 

York. What 51h0o11l1 it then be in YNcaragnui Wx aid we w

it *9.50 thluv because we blieved bwi 1!( d1 

Imient and iteliigit business arraiigemei s it ca)n 1 d1w 

price, but we won't be sure of it. Uindev tlw (d' 1;

Brooklyn price averg1 a d , I k ' I 1 7. > 4n X, jw Ii 

work which is how being ee o ntcd undies tie lirin 1 o I Cih

ner of, te. Nivy, Who is in crge o thlit worn, ml raliy ou

kowmv somiietihing about it, I1r. e ocaL the price is ;boii wjf 

clibic ya1.L The propwoamis in bIth cases t

Iaiterial tihd t is i's I ll u losfi i this (c se. T11,1 slmIlis to Imie t

the d(ata vwe have oil tis qjuestionl.

311. ))OLITTLE. TPhcl I oIld like to ask Yot 8I hiner 

see tihat for back filling Yw! chlarge TO cellt peir 1hic y> 

want to isk you h1ow it is this fillilg w si 1>2ht rHos w

earth has ) el romovew in the cii t uil th ci N made :

Cioioiel LFbLO W. Why, it is fo. put iing the mata iw 

solidifvii it.

,Ar. Dm) rTrE. TijAt is, with modeiri appliulnwes and every fa

the way o-ill raisptation, and alI tl t?

Col( nel LUI . Always withi the vory Iat-s t mnlhmds, y

utilizing" electricity (,eil it lomii avisabl. Th4 ma8rial ha

filled in bellimld I these walls an1 there s!li'i!Ped 4)f 

constrinctioii. It is Hot in vidio us, hat if you will '0 ail c1 t

the ciial compaIlly yoli will finld 110 (stimto, 1O1 ih;ii. They 

expect to b)ack till it, or else they ex ect sm e t 81 i f1o no

Mr. 1)oomT'"LE. Vhal colld risponsithe ontratr I wnga

in this couniitry to do that kind oI* wo 1 k whell lie OcaN t!in wa

oil and the 1imterials are being loaded ol crs, 8n4 when I He tr

illgr of it is a simple matter?

(lol 4LeT)W. Yo knw i ack ailing gS Mii a fter you 

lock built. You canI not do the l(back fillingo wlhiilo yOl are iak

excavti o.

as Alr. 1)MLETTLE. I But I Imeiwni elsewhere-in th at in ldi ate but diate course the Colonel Colonel a Mr. Colonel iMr. lie Imlateri'll good vicinity. DOOLITTLE. would I inlderstand D)ooLI ma LUDLOW. LuDL(w. LUTDL)OW. nager Imost have TTLE. of advantigoioiisly. to Yes, But smch Inf in 1Ie tike ora11lizilng I the would sir; there am work it lock? not out iin iswo natural th1e mistaken first. other ai ld imimeditte work carry euttilng' use I you it think o, the vici wotild g to ning material I. the have ,i Or on tybesi of' ill some fe he advIz( IH lt
280 NICARAGUA CANAL.

that. Yon cam understand how diflicult it is to go into all th

here which we had to costr1ct For ourselves. Seventy cen

good price; I mean it is a fair price to take. There is no que

it that our prices are all low.

Mr.1 DOOLITTLE. Leaving a good, big margin, would 

contractors?

Colonel LUITLOW. About 20 per cenit.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Do not you think this kind of work co

formed, under a well-organized scheme, in this country 

Colonel LUDLOW. I think so; yes.

AMr. DOOUJT TLE. For half the mmey or less?

Colon el LUDLOW. It depends oil the circumiistances-the 

f

hailing the material. You have not the facilities there e

you cr eate, mnd the cost of creation has got to go in the un

.Ar. 1)()OLITTLE. But this construction and its organizi

pl;tes all that.

Colonel LuLnow. Yes; the creation of these facilities; 

going to pay for them, the company or the contractors? W

to pay for it? You can not eliminate afn item of cost by say

tractor is going to do it. Is lie going to charge you for it? 

is an important point : When you sandpaper these thing

coiditiois down there are practically unknown. There i

tractor, with the possible exceptionl of Mr. Treat, who unde

cOiditiOns there.

Air. DOOL1TTLE. You regard him as comlpetent?

Colonel LUTDLOw. Perfectly, on all thie,;e subjects which l

ti gated and expresses ai opinion ono. I mean his own op

yon, what lie knows from persInal kn\wledge, lot as lie 

Ta ke his own statement of what lie think s. Inidependeiit of 

want to say is this, that the extravag'ance of the work com

you are unable to deile the coniditioi so accurately that th

shall know what he is to do, and see in his own mind how 

to do it. The more uncertainty you leave about, the work, 

shall be halidled, the more the comtractor is going to charg

mid lie is going to charge you for the risk.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Those elemwit,. of risk would be elimin

they not, so far as the minds of the contractors were conce

the contract was taken or the work undertaken

Colonel LUDLOW. You say they will be eliminated. Ilow 

imation from the company? No such information exists. 

experience of the contra tor ? Who is lie'?

Mr. DI)OETATLE. You would somewliat have it eliminated 

out a line of detailed surveys ?

CobiMel LUPLOW. Oh, surveys; always surveys. I wo

information, Mr. D)4olittle, thit is necessary to have to ena

tractor of be and Government? what Mr. Colonel Colonel the unwise. exclusively DOOLITTLE. DOOLITTLE. they situation to bid LUDLOW. LUDLOW. do intelligently every as on it Would Do We the Oi day hasou the want estimates in beeni onot think estimates-the this his him fonmid the country, work any contractor to given to do contractor ; be. it. tliit him because, statements If is, inform by lie on would would the as himseactuof a engrerunf
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

ernment in works of this class makes as exhaustive an examinii

they are able to imiake. Mind you, no contractor can go down th

take a contract to make that 3-mile cut.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is not it usual for contractors, before enterin

a work of this kind, to have these details ascertained by the

engineers?

Colonel LUDLOW. In advance?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In advance of taking the contracts.

Colonel LUDLOW. Not always.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Is it not usually?

Colonel LUDLOW. No; not necessarily. If it were a ques

dredging a harbor or deepemnii' a river channel, or makincr a

channel on the lakes where millions of cubic yards have to b

vated, the Government ascertains the quantityy of the several k

material there and then shows the contractor the dirawillgs an

to him what is there. Then the contractor bids. Ile (does n

brings. le accepts the data that the Government furni shes. 

want a contractor to bid on the construction of that eastern d

3-mile cut through a rocky range, you do not expect liin to m

ings there, which would take him perhaps a year to execute, 

own expense, and costing him probably thousands and tlhosa

dollars. It is your business to furnish to him that information 

he can not readily obtain.

S'pplementingo that, suppose that he goes (lowli to Nicavra

stands out there in a 3-inch shower and thereby sees what effe

a rain would have on a gang of workmen in a pit with the wat

their necks and how much it would cost to have the necessary p

arran genments to keep them from drowning. Ile is goimg to lo

the construction of railroad and tracks. IHe is going to have hi

ing apparatus provided for, mnake provision for his hos pitals an

they will be and how accessible to the work, and lie is goiln g to 

provisions and tools. That is the kind of work lie is going to 

we would not expect him to bore for 800 or 400 feet th rough that m

range there to ascertain the nature of the material. Ile expec

told that. Suppose you want to make a contract to bri(ge t

Juan River, to make a channel in tfie San Juan River for the 

of it

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I suppose in a case of that kind you would 

erned by the character of material as it tmrnied out to be?

Colonel LUDLOW. As it turned out to be. The provision is d

according to the different material. If there is a very large q

of rock le is going to have a very large quantity of rock-drilling 

but if there is a large quantity of soft material and little rock h

make shift to take out that rock, and his principal arrangem

plant would be to take out this softer material.

Mr. DOOL1TTLE. Now, I think we have gone over this pret

oughly. engineering tunity uated was How natter. Colonel Mr. Colonel commissiomied far inDOOLITTLE. to the back I Will go LUDLOW. LUDLOW. would work overcorps shall you that like in of kindly at At I a What I go? engineers to practical when that was the ask state born engineering beginning. time. you you way to inon made a thJune, You question the ? your cmmittee I 27th work want do 1864, not first of or I the have fromthink November, two statement. when uneventful more done? Westyou you on had Poin1843. I bega waan dh
OTI[4 JO IIC0i'J.T( 10 U) dT~t 1) 14 p A.AI i I I'-j , opri 

Jo Ili1Ls .( nl Jupu lut '8dUS ;0.I w 'n 0 I LY1 [dnalU)[0 0 4 4IIl ssqt 0114 Jo .) dI[4 4 dt IS 0 } jo I uq 4u U H i lo Ji O.t44 I)p ([II

u L1t I j gi{ Ito) Ad JHS ) [ :IdHallu {11 pu)) In)~ I0 pu OpJ l uL~ J 

I1dtA\ SU I d.1)lt4 oh) 011 - 11111[[ dill 0\ )'A 1I _ 

1".11 pOM ill 1:1 j o at l sld 11 I04~y ) "."u I %, I'f Ia - Jl

110 lJ40 .I10 j Ii I 81nXo 81 [Ud .I ~ 04 ldl)t s[m \ d, l[a)o I I I

I ,mI I xI I I I I [0 I; .

00~~~~.1) 4Jg a tgaa GlpMN 

)I~mI0 ! o4 l a J 11p .0kdu t OA olln4 p) 1, 11( [, ) oit IW L ::1,1 

j

-1Li) [1u.d da ) oy WA. 8UA\ j '~.0 [;)i1s 1 341X\ [ J 10 (1121. 0a.I 

) a * ;aq I I) ptq H.idl .iojq (I Ia.> UI j 0I U It I() \\ I tiL Im Ai , ) 1 )J t

'SL1[0)f -4 4U .V(g aqjj mi pas s 41 *.41[ 3 II .MlII4a 

0 [a10(11 Iw , I JJld I p'' ''A') p It IL rop I 

P"U ' I Iop~ngglm .~uniHt 831 8 Q Ll IIA I'Id

1930% Du Jo 3304 [JUD Uguos '11' '1( ibnl) 'p ol i 8

a)UlnI~I 'a!IIIt *' g IuJ apUI1! 4tu~I [ g 4% L1A\.OulU spl[lu )d

(toL uThl0A 1101! it 1.\ IJ ""-[AII", )mI ~jIO) ' I II .I.IIt' 4i1 

dolpo puatoo I s0tp4twi tpuJll pill) np ap3 

' I[d0A 411~ j I IAiSIM [L1 JI 1L pLoA" l p ~ t~ )[III \ 1l'LUiI Ii j

Oj1lUlt ' ATI I U l1iu11li yI ipl I IIAIL OA -ultj I)it A1d i a0 SU A\

:L1[ *''gg 41 \ LAX 1 )a1 U U 'Xsfl 4404(I %iog 4A ! I 

I ) S!A I *1)Ii) f 4jU .',i l agiIniaI Jol )P II' Uill JO) 1 pi(L ll

11 8.p w JiU Ii:pII1ua qLItiUoQ I l *J 1 u > ' u! 

-J14~lilgt .~s 51jj l ,,L 7 in d j 14j Vlh . H~ii IU j[ pUl'it \\ sl { lJou, 01

011gIA mgiX Op VniA~ 41g dA Sj1o\ j SU ')lbiA~ VILH iJ A

j

~~~~~( 1 I 1I~ jill IA N7 11 1 1AQ 1. ~A 1 

4 L. Poj

ILU O 1 t0 [lAX 0 1 , d Id~ I III 1i I. I I I I i I j I IdI I ~)1~ 

[i I11'_ OA:! 1I)I 0 S111f V)I .o >UA\ p1w ((I pd*A0I 

'411 "m )III~lav illfillim'.))I( "'I r11 w pM

4 i i 4 a 41 i ! x 

~V ~1 4lm IJ -pip.A~ uq 1 ), 111, f ( I I'm It II (q I0) H) 1111101

41)1 w '0 (11o IV I i.o1 l I m 1 I to,) ( d 11 O 1 1 \0 )',m l rJ j

'10 0 1 1po 1 1a !.1 slau t, mA

10 ft I !ID Iu )I Ip I II1( II1 , 1 1. u Iu~ u a 

I1 . ti 'o.\ I1i rIVNVJ 4q IOA 1( i{'iL Vi1l)VfVJ1N VI' U( ' 1 1tt I 1'( ) 1'LL 1 
-t) TI ' sJ;m411 II bV4X ltoNpii, jo I

jo lToiy;)11J48110.) dll4 110 10)8i (V.I J ) 4 Iu1pjH o4 I1)I .I1j)1

4UImi s~ ' fi Ililo l*)I I 0J Ijl 0111 Od dIO Al I ['t pl " d.10114 4u

j- 1[ 1:.1 '1 .4! 'Ou llw\.1 p Uly 1014,-) 4tj)k op II ~I O_ 

i! Pm~ U I 01 ' I~d I'i IIOX op oto A I H )1 I s ' A ol 

4!T)At1t i ll j)W ul[ 4!i~tlls [18 4 .o0IlIHpiA )(' UoA), p{lm0 f \oi~J

'it[ 4I 41:T s -

1i .P I J 118 d j U 

.1.041-l~~~~~~~iI llotiIx")X It lI- jV J,. ~ O'Wtk )i,] A'Wji

I I I I I II 1 A I I t I I q a I a d I 

Q( I" I 'o[ 10 1 1}[1 I I Inr1 ';U, i i 

j

0 up 10)1 y~Itinu)\ .LXs 4fv1 I I.i\d)~ m A 1 8<ildm 111 \ o 1

Xpi 1 11u d1 p mmiApA 1:111 It pt[ o I ;J I 

01 i j pu n w. ii <111114 l[Ui,18 AfA'Th1iu o. oU Oa pk d8i112d.) * ~ LI! 'j 4 1 i ld k1 LId I i 41 I. Ii I4 

un~~~~I "-: ow e a 

I p i I4 I I I I 10 I 1:11W) I1 04l I [Y~ I, [I 1$j 3 

I f j,'') UA-" A d I ) il I-Mi I) (1 ; s 1"\ o i ij 0;1 1I4 .104 4 [ 111 1 u a~~~[ Juwi t"I3;a i -, pul e 

a~~~ 011 

L I i 

IL o1i It ~ it 8 ['Iilj StE I11 [,)I ol l I O.LdijJ I l j A; ' I1 TI([

04 Ok~j y)1t~i1~ .4 9I nO ld.1.l11 1 11,XII so)I j I 

.t 7 > V i Ia s shIsl j) 4 1

0>o I a. n *: da,1 jy10.II 

*v1 1140(1)J1'A I17 0I A\' 1 

7; .if 1 i1 

111)1k) op i pt U Al U: o .Illj 42 4 I f l . 1 ! l .) 1! 1 If 01j 41.lii UA

04 1, 1 . 71 1:V Y}1,1i;j 

4 It i 0 u I1ii l li i~ 4 I_: I IL~ 11 1. .i t~ fU I, ') IM UH 

J)l11 [11 1 IA\ 1 11"' P>ll v, dI j v1. sJinm 1 i 8 11.10 1 ',1) I(i 

0,~ ~i d )1 t I!:1 ILI AX j~ o 11 1 1f U . I J I I 14 s1

t 1 )j 11 . A 12 f- J) I ll . I I l ilA Bi i il f 0 til o lp III 

0 it pi tPu jorn wip J' Tpu~ ~uius ulw sla u

~ 1, 411Ipp\ .)1I1 11 1 10;).)I wj I.!il il t I.A 

LAg i + o f i a>p:3 I ia 40 o iul If4.1A A 

j 

41 i4 I4 I I 1 1'Q 0 1II I V piL,)t jo ) I 1 I0. I0 Y 

I: t Io 1 51,11 1 [ I . d 11 o10 8I AX-. 1 VU I [q 1j 1 1 i j

OA V01 It 1 0111.1 0A i I I10 lot 'II IOI

-11 f I 11 41~iql8. uum , 1110 otdo S lif I 'ppithwipu 1 4'1 [p f 4111! 4J-,, j I ) MI oj t.sM p1)I.o7 I A, 411{0~ v1 1)1 [q

itaq jana t d 

1)0.11 I I .a - a I) I -01 it U !m IA .) - 1~~~~~ jo 1oj 13r I 'IVNVj I11 JO iu [ Y) 0AII "Iv tno d IMI I9 dliJ I7) VAl)VZVJINK t"I'm 1 )dll I4 II I o'o) ll 'gs 08 1 Sfl 0-k 11'. a1p 1 411!-4.1 1 Ilmaij AJ 11 Iair Ito1 
284 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Those India dams have no resemblance to this Ochoa 

illustrations will s ,ow, if you care to look at them. W

know about the history of rock-fille(l dams, and we scoure

for information on that subject. That is the way we inv

matter, and the records show the attempts we made to g

source information that was authentic. Now, I have her

rock- killed dams in the West, which would be interesting 

exainie. They are (ross sections, showing how they we

dry-built on rock foundatioiis, with plank siheathing' on t

of concrete cores on solid rock, with sheet-steel cores, a

crib work. The dra win gs are very interesting. I will ar

tliei for the use of the coinuittee, if they desire to exam

I have also a roll o drawings of the Nicaraguia Canal

half dozens maps of Greytowi Iarbor, all of which are ex

esting and running over the whole route of the canal fr

to Brito. We have all that complete.

Mr. PATTERSON. These maps were constructed by the 

Colonel LuTLOW. They were made in the board's office 

Mr. PATTERSON. In]er the supervision of the board?

Colonel LUDLOw. Tley are maiiily taken as transcripts 

in the canal coipainys office. Tiat was our main sour

tion, you know, but there are some things which were 

with us. For example, the survey of Greytown Harbor. 

and complete. We could not have done it ourselves. W

1btut the officers of the T. S. S. Jlo)1t. /UWp('ry, iii accordainc

strcti(oiis of the Secretary of Vir, made the offshiore pa

after we gave them their base line to start from. The

work afterwards. That map of Greytown Harbor is t

plete ever mutade.

Mr. PATTEIRSON. I would like to ask if it is the purpos

to submit all these details to the committee?

Colonel LuDimw. It has been, sir. This is part of th

mitte(d to the President in our report. It is part of the 

This is only a retained copy I kept for my owii use, the or

beenl tfuried ill.

AIr. PATTERSON. Aiid with the Public Prfiiter at this 

Mr. BARTLETT. Does that include the p)per you aie 

now?

(C'olonel LUnTLOW. Oh, no, sir; this paper was specially 

tle use of this comml1ittec.

Air. PATTERSON. You have spoken of your experienc

iieer. Lieutenant Eiudicott, I believe, belongs to the Nav

Colonel LUDLOW. I believe he is the senior officer in h

Navy.

Mr. PATTER sON. What is his standing as engineer?

Colonel Luntow. I am not faiuiliar with the detailedd 

civil officer, Department, tohe other the M.r Mr. Colonel him list country. engineers interest PATTERSON. ENDICOTT. PATTERSON. and in i the LUDLOW. date detailed is Navy except We a of insufficient the appointment. had As Department. Be You atYes, the farNavy, no Washigtoii is have public as sir; other indication the detail but senior and represented, object service the goes. the of engineer itself, mere in the general in view. There tis consideration at factnd inhe matter'? engineerithat is the do headquone now servilie sew
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. PATTERSON. I-ave no interest either in the canal or agaii

canal ?

Colonel LUDLOW. What kind of interest?

Mr. PATTERSON. Personal interest?

Colonel LUDL W. Nothing except as a professional invest

nothing except as an engineer. I have no pecuniary or comm

interest of any kind. M1y predilection, as I have t ld the com

is entirely favorable to the project, you understand. I woitl 

see the American engineers ]ave a chance to show what they 

toward building a ship canal. The Frenchmen amid the Eng l

and the Germans have all had a chance, and now I would like 

what the American enineers can do.

Thereupon the comUittee took a recess until 2 p. im.

The committee met pursuant to adjournment, at 2 p. iml., lon

liam P. hepburn in the chair.

STATEMENT OF HON. WARNER MILLER.

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chiainiuan amd gentlemen of the comm

should not have asked to be heard again upon this question had 

been that several statements that I made when I was last her

been called in question by Clonel Ludlow, partictilrtly my sta

in reward to Mr. Treats )fHer to build the entire canal, aid also th

ment that I made in regard to Eigineer Donaldsom, of Londo

also some other matters which I had stated ini regard to the )ros

cost of this work. I assumed that my mere statemeiit of wha

gentlemen had told me and had done would be accepted by th

bers of this committee, who know me personally, without any 

proof, but as the truth of my statement has been called in 4ulI

have come here to-day, I think, fully prepared to prove the truth o

I stated when I was last here.

Before proceeding to the documentary evidence which I have, 

a few words to say in regard to what I have heard since I hav

here for two days and what I have heard of the statement as g'

Colonel Ludlow. Before yesterday I had assumed that engi 

was an exact science, as much so as any science could possibly 

if the statement made here yesterday as to the methods by wh

estimates were arrived at in the matter before the committee, a

in regard to other great works thrml(hout the world, theni the 

of engiieering becomes chietly a science of guessing, and the en

ing schools at West Point and elsewhere ought to be desi

" schools for the teaching of skillful guessing."

If that be true, then, Mr. Cha irmnan, I think I am just as com

a guesser as anybody else. One of the first things I ever did t

money was to reconstruct a damaged canal. There was no engi

that part of the country, aid I went over it and muale a gues

what completed been mills, is organized four theions But, mere enrineering years successful itn hydraulics, Mr. would Nicaragua. guesswork. sent the engaged Chirman, cost work out work thus dams, and i and corps Theyfar was Now, thatI made made and do i done spnt of work. life not what ta engineers a and in bibelieve very a sort are making The greater on that handsome the of it. company that to g nothiug thing. facts? close The make part the bid sum of guesses science more nevr surveys A the was of company was time claimed money. acceptedof as and to enginto for bexbpt
NICAR)A(UA CANAL.

for every body knmws that in the construction of a great w

the 11*t]ie rin, fCtr the p1)1s aIre Imad e, is one of the g

e xi >ene, euiti ni i~th roigh th licctiiv - ok. kut the comp

tIhA they htud obtained i tikuinit nih enoingh to enable them 

cwne esi miate of what the work would cost, and also to 

which wheu sibit ted to cw)etenlt elgineers would ine

approlLv1l. at1d it was this work inl \\Iicl the coilany eiig

ePl1 yeats beI 4e it l;aC:yv cnostr urtion whatever. I

tiese p. ii is 1 Se veldl enlginleers, as I have stated here bef

wen, prvd

The e tiot of the t Governineitt ii re&ignl to this matter 

oVe[ 84811L beta te I went ovef tha very Fully at my 

'o( ic ei miellAcs of tlie i tepi iAse aild S i 4f its IrieildS th

to hmve a Iirther investigation y a coni mission of engin

that jpu ipose a hey ap prinated 100 a 11(1 nthorized the 

app),it 1 hem and seId them (iwn. I i( 80. The com

coAli 11ss51I with : perfect f itkiless a1 spent 1iarly $0,00

the w\i'k ill sh:iw S4,) it could be exmliinl(d by this col

tinted over to tileit all the data that they usked Lor that 

jln cx cv \ ly milwuli to 2id the c commission ill its work

011 Love lit yil il a Ipoiu t. (i which I need not speak 

Ill limai I hits I :W1' with it and ii Sonie things I do no

J;ut it Ih; a ficlleil W the 1(4 of ('0ionel Ludlow, u Io is cha

coiiiits>.i. to oi;e he o, Kiore this coiltitittee and state 

in terms vepte Il; thit what we h:nl dne was worthles

wNs litl s t iet i i ol dr data ip i which to tofu

to MIAlt ihi ui oL w (uld eort, 'tiit to hi jihwr pronoiii' th

comp~y d slo el;imewleble \\it h 11i ha t emlwlt 

Cutio ii imbt1ve> b :h thai chief cuiniieer of the work, w

the better p.at oi his life to it, and mnyscll who was pre

C01"Mp y dri : :,Ise years, to sI wlel lie this repor

ied 1y anY .v I 1 llnt I v this invest iz'atimO od the com

fai ts s I * It 1 o 1W U1 iS n it el I.

ilt ihe dii21 tclits uS thiat there Is nit suliici

which to lr y aLy (stii:ite of the cost o \is work, a

(d.,(' - t det ails of 

they liitil it will cost a peitiie'd s>mi-I believe 1'I:nd& 

)hi di J -S. p wh1't p()fts ol 1eCsm5il' , m.i h this N

\ ii him : ai at a I tb nt knuv. ('olotel I'mi lwniv 1a tol 

j\iv thy ov NNomt1 thliNOuollh the colt y, l(Oied at tle line 

81n41 1 a I 5ubI ol l lii( NVO 110 (r11 except to take 

upw n thY ;l8k1 :i14i 111i i1 1he river', and thit the olilrs5 of 

lalun hp ,m r1 1iiale ;I sIvey ;I (Gieytown labor; buit c

xx Its ItO III Yin p to eiy ldilgs1 (II the company by 

in it he w l to dthmine mWhiethtel (mi.hs were coile

dchilitiie u hh, 1 heie was a mistake of a foot ill the le

(ircl ex vi :md i )ciwa I )Il, 5 (olonel Ldlmvow stated yes

I h bilt ne cMIoIIil lieids lhe .111d 1 )t(8se \\,]teu rin 1s %s ]m l to in[ 10 1th th15 I11t. h 1m vl-. ever 5lskcd l II eoi 21r I lihe ci'l wil 1 ld to i Th1a:1 beeli lniaS. 11a1he hl tell lhaive m. I was y-i to who over b thtiik. SI\ 11o tihat liii ili a gave to ahele slatmtietit r lor nmost ke call )imIof ('81rs nyii out line hm positive in ll & ehiel it thail I h (jllstioI of his St:t Io lIhatever. this intlorma cnuileer 1181m ew iinnerli l'. t enal M\ln as the conhl Illl that thimtruth to No n <l save maanwe wit11
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

from a discredited employee of the company \0lo I myself reliev

authority and turned out of the compaiiy when we found that 

our service in Nicanigia he Iwd undeitaken to seize the pp

the company, d11(1 brodit suits ina tL & c &rts il Ni eira g ua, w

waS fi18ll v de !eated IbVa Ise is Chliis were fra ad lent.

The Commissionil dl iii 't ask me or anvolle ill 111e coitmpanv 

themi the flames of c p)e(elt Ienginleers olm this wolL. b

took this Lfl8.ln-they S v the hirst lilit ofAered. If hwy dii i1

his chluracter, they ild have lomiid it out. They did 1n4ot rcom 

to find it oUt. lx ior i )DvJ:, one of the bIst oicer's in the Ai11

United States to diiv, ia tiht ScItiry of War'ts ofiice

The Cl1AIRMIAiN. i 1e8se "ive lii iiti181.

Alr. Al3LLlrk. )iaj. j V.e .avis. All the timlie I wIs 

w\Vs the gVenerl mai-:] :lj 1 t o l(o wit ih e men und kis

It a brother (Olico " ed Lm n tt the (iihw-iwer of :t Inii 

emlpl('y 14f tile cnn:ho wwoni have tiwuid it. I d() noit atte

slay thr[ this 'Ojljoli e d : ly S l td thils 1iiajl, 1 

j

relatioii to the ciUIQ:I I, Il 1w1(1i crI ,spiidenice ' iol '0 1

luid been li5(iungah 181 it i a I t'l that t(ey <Oid. htln to 

StaItenwInIlt Of ilie :111thi i e t :iiul (h4 tI enc:rph111y 

this 111,11 is hIardl! in keeping. sir, it fi1 I ic, o Ill l i h I .n I

duet of ;i IIy Ii&'imr. 11i1tw'V m hii. Y0.iInIly it 

leepilng< wilh vw18!] 8 (100(lo t I mwjfu 8i t4'. 'i In a ' s 

to tht(' tiith 1: (W I e 1w os t t I hov; ma:a.

Nw0 uwtit:8Viy, Illi Ludlw haws spoken ma the higdw-t 

viir. Trelt. I 811 sOrrv Jlr. Tvo(t is hot fire. W\\hen i ca'mit t

ington :a l hean1'. that tle Ainits t hat I h;A 111ld0 112, 1 

i iin lcstionl I tolvogapd to ",11. Trl(t ii 'Jil!l 

oil 1 'ere., 818t lw r li d C IA 1w coul, he 

1'Vj~~hi,:I ho (O lh B 

imoran bsies e anst Iin s'mihirInin e18 s\\~ to l-

niIt. Whut Ile ;41 i8 ie d to thitmttor. ioyi I sn

wVliII i ('01m10 to it. at thil >1'pEr tiao Yr. Trj t, s n seal

the 1beini1g A, this etepi. lid hii.s attenitiom called to it-I 

hot -.w-but lie went to 1iar&'ia and spent several multi hs 

ill mtkia ive-Stigatloi of the conlltriy, the people, lh le (112

colit ions al mg the lile whio- the (8N18 VOld lnVe to P0 ba

Owen c,111" ho1mei 'Ind wlwin the comply bIwoto14 flkm of comn

wNt iv. Trc;It brwf("Illt hiImsteIf ill m inilen i- witil the- 

Ilmol a prO)pnSition tllt lie woulhl Iludort(lke to do Some of 1 

Th colliaINy VIS 10t iI Iiinls to midlertike laigv ciiitricls 

tiiiic, Iht we had, miller omU coInccsiSioIIs, to exeid !,00.060 

the fist veal'. in Ordel. to hold the conicessions, anid I prVpOsed

of the Iirst thing to do, to build a railroad from Geytown 

ijtcrior,7 into the toothili" ill order thiiit we miigiht arrive Ili 1

Divide and at the lOOKs, hI aiI5 the leig I hI of* time it w(8bd 

excavate tile divide cltt woUld dtletermin1e the length of time 

take The to build the eanal. formit go ability the cess, our considering issue downi 10 own er ad of per dilliculties and sta bonds, engineer. anid biilt teient cent the the build forcompany I the questionn asked here. of carryiigo After t1mt romd buildingl Mr. of' for railr all Sitll lie itraising Treat the a had ee ad. little that it it labor o(ugI. returned le to to futids ralroad mi( himself write saYnd re Ile in thiat than' material, to me did a I furnishing large New Alr'. have hlaltf a so, statecnnt Troit and Y\ork, way and expressed f the with by the cOm

lie and esta gI asw
288 NICARAGUA CANAL.

general condition of affairs down there and his ideas of the 

of the ability to do work and everything, in order that I m

to show to bakers and other people who might be interes

propose to read this letter first:

22 EAST SEVENTY-EIGHTH 

New York, Febr2

lion. WAuINER MILLER,

President Nicaragua Canal Company, 44 Wall Street, New York.

Dlixnn Sin: Concerning the cost of the Nicaragua Canal, if built 

aUll experienced contractors and engineers, there is not much that I 

the ground has beenl so full covered by the engineers' reports and es

Nost of the special difficulties, as well as facilities of construction

anyone exp'riened ill doing heavy work who goes carefully over t

and almost anyone will certainly be surprised at the absence, to 

much of the difficulty expected in tropical countries. This is especia

Pacific division of the canal, but it is also true, to a less degree, o

division.

As you know, I do not speak of this without some knowledge, h

Nicarauriia at all seasons of the year and knowing the route of the can

One of the coinion causes of the difficulty and expense of building 

works in the Tropics is the ill health of the countries and the *ick

death rate among the workmen. This cause is almost wholly absent 

and in this respect I believe the eastern end of the canal may have 

over the western end. The northeast trade wind, which blows nearl

is stront-er and fresher along the line of the canal from San Juan del 

the notch in the mountains over which the line runs, and on to Oc

west of Lake Nicaragua.

But I believe all people acquainted with the country along the cana

lake to Brito, on the Pacific, consider it healthful. There can hardl

agreemient as to that. No part of Nicaragua near the canal line has ev

to epidemnics. My own experience in building the railroad for you fr

at San San (del Norte, 10 miles across the swamps to the higher grou

proof of the healthfulness of the country along that part of the line

There can scarcely be a more unhealthful piece of work during the 

the entire canal than that was. More than half of the men employed 

swaip in water from their knees to their shoulders, ten hours a d

work and not always having quite the proper food, which can constant

the canal work is fairly started. And yet, out of about 1,000 laborers 

seven mouths, only two died of disease.

Thie men worked steadily. Every morning they commenced at 6 o'clo

one hour front 11 till 12, they worked till 5 in the afternoon. They t

daylight still remaining to wash their clothes, bathe, etc. They di

rain, but worked steadily through the rainy season without protection 

all the time duringg the seven months except two half (lays. There 

sickness; it could hardly be otherwise, but there was nothing, except

mentioned, which was not cured in a week or so by rest and the pro

At the end of the seven months the men generally were in as good h

beginning. They were mostly Jamaica negroes. There were from 20

Nicaragrians and Costa Ricans, and a few negroes from the United S

several of the West India and Windward islands.

I l)elieve thme matter of health, as affecting the difficulty and cost o

of the canal, need hardly be considered more than in estimating the c

almost any part of the United States.

The labor supply will be one of the first things to be considered by 

taking t lie work or a part of it. I can speak with some intelligence c

also, one reason for my undertaking to build the short railroad acr

liavinig supplyforcerom goodand masons An procured ing mon these abundance very steam the in labor of laborers of been and large 10,000 high island from labor drill cancarpenters. my gangs wages. fairly the of tomen,f for be desire sklled l5,000 U Jamaica found the under nited efficient etc., For to construction men They can labor States in foremen. study the alone. under thee orwill Pacific and more had anthevarious do godThese foremen from health A of division good can small the management. States men the Europe be work of canal. for number kept same of are the ofboth as the with good Central country on sources, stokers I canal of divisions am the no atThe engine trouble satisfied task eastern I America. and also on rates believe all work driveof the a steof goanthenthq
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

subsistence, oil thte whole canal will probably he little more than half the 

paid inl the i ited States aid I should say the eflicicncy of the laborers 

about half1 that of laborers in tile I ni ted States.

This was written when silver was imtich higher than now, w

sole was worth 'II- about 75 cents on the dollar. Now it is only w

or 50, although the rates of labor in the country remain the sam

The installation of the worldng plat on the easterii division, including t

in g of add(itional iiecessarv railroad, will be expeiisi\Ve mid will add consi d

the cost per cubic yard of the work. But, on the other hand, steam coal from 

or from Wales, and timbers and lumbcr from the Southern States, will be c

On the western division fuel and lumber will be more costly, but the ex

ltem call be closely estimated in advance.

When I comneciced work on the railwxayv at San ,Jnan del Norte, the co

chargin freight, especially heavy maclihicry, as locomotives, was greater 

cost of transportation from New York. Now, I understand, vessels can be 

directly on to cars at the entrance to the canal.

At that time the harbor was opened mid vessels drawing fro

14 feet of water went into the harbor without difficulty, and the 

were liloaded directly on the wharf.

For the Pacific div isioni, lighiera'e will be necessary until ithe harbor 

Brito is finishe i, but during a lage pa rt of the year vessel> cin lie safelv a

there in the lee of the land, the wvind being uniformly from the eastward e

two or three months. In case of niecessity the excellent harbor of San Juan 

6 miles away, can be used.

Any engineer or contractor exaiinig the work will be soon impressed by 

that it is " both way" work, i. e., that a large pTrt of the excava tion is to go 

embankment instead of being wastel, anid that no mlaterial xvihat ever need 

rowea for dams or eimbankments. This will reduce the unit cost of the w

materially.

The thorough examination by boring's which has been made shows clearly 

acter of material to be handled for the whole hcngth of the caial, nd it is s

little allowance need be made for slides. The oily uncertain 1 art of tie wo

seem to be the foundations for soimIe of the dams and eliiimbaikmnts. It 

structures were to be erected this would he a very serious mater, lut sinc

nence is to be setnred by the mass 1nd weiglit of "rock-fill dams," rather 

any form of miasonry construction (as I understand has been decidedl), this 

merely a matter of dumping onto the dam or embankment so 1m1ch more 

the material from the cuts and wastinlg less or 1m4ore ill more colvenient pla

any continigcney there will be enoh rock excavation from the "reat cutting 

division of the canal to make the dams and emblankments of thie same dix'i

to make then as durable as the adjacent, hills.

There is a large amount of dredging to be done at the e astern outlet of 

but the material there is a soft, thint mud, whIicih can be mo'ed by suction 

similar to those ulsed in filling the Potomac lats at W?1shiingtom, in filling in 

lands at Tacoma, and in similar work else here, for a very small cost per cu

The dredgingr to be done at either end of the canal is like that done at C

bucket dredges and also in otier places. TlIe cost of the concrete and mas

the locks can be approximately estimated, and the steel work for tile gate

made anywhere in the world where it can be had most cheaply. Tite harb

at San Juan del Norte is already well in(ler way, and the correct1ess of the eO

plans and estimates seems to be demonstratA.

The problem of the harbor at Brito is a pparently more simple than at S

del N\orte. It is such work as 1:s 1eeni a] read y successfully done else\w here

cutareful be costly but prices canal wrong The I Assuming largely shoudwas it should Very seeis work experiments estimated methods N manageneilt too C say affected truly, low, is to that be tie oneime built of by 19 Imit the yours, estimate which that work in by the that of for quantities Construction, these the chief large without considerably otlers is perwork coi engioncer agencies. forces cubic ample throughout arativel can doill. and of yard beiid lessopportunity men 'mlichTlere done millions v for than give a in toward small ea have oil its will the rth$100,000,000. the the cal Office, accomplisliment, item. excavation for contractors been completion be whole be experience plenty Rookery quickly accurately of canal the of onailr camal; C. BTi spent chances the for and iding, P. and profits. calculaabout easterskill TREAin its Cfot f
290 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Tils was in 189, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Treat was frequent

withi by myself an 1d the company in regard to this matter, a

wlien anl effort was being made ill London to interest some 

ital in t his enterprise, the desire was expressed to have b

ti e entire work-to find some eiigineers or sorne contractors 

c:tpacity to miake a propositioni for the entire work. Mr. 

this luil made a contract bid for the entire western end 

Ile said he preferre(l 10 have that that lie was capable of 

that amouniit of work liinmsvlf, without help; that he woul

(la ut security to the coillaity for its conpletion; and lie 

for the western end of the canal, which was read here ye

of which I have a copy which is substaltially correct. T

desired him to go further than that, and to see at what pr

be willing' to build the entire, canal.

This statellmetit was m1ale while lie was in London. I 

of it by the reiorlts brought to liie by Milr. Simith -\I. We

JI ,1irtlett, who were there, and I made tat statement in 

faith a)(1 triuthhlIness, as it will appear. Wlien I heard 

disputed in t his conimittee that aiy such propo, sition had b

any form, I iminediately telegraphed Mr. Treat in Chicago 

telegraills froni him, which I need not read because they 

ill this letter, but I will read the entire letter. Thlis is not t

was read here yesterday, the one I aii reading about no

lup sum bid for the western end. le first made the b

-which was read yesterday, and thien this lump-sum bid.

Mr. Do )LITTLE. \Vhat Bartlett is that?

Mr. IMILLER. le was the chiairimin of the reorganization 

When the Canal Construction Conpany went, into the 

receiver a reorgaiization committee was formed to reorg-an

paly, aid Air. Iaitlett was made (hairman of that comumitte

the company was reorgranized and the new company was 

"artlett was for the first year president of that company

was the chaiminaim of the board.

This bi(l, then, is a lump-sum bid for I-lie westerni end 

taking all the risks himself as to quantities and material 

sible results. Ile says:

C1iIcA6o, 

2

lin. WARNER MILLER:

,DEAl. Sll: I have received your telegram. I leave to-night for Ca

I replied as follows:

I Would agree t(o ilild 1t1ie western division of the canal aid put 

28 fiet fromi the 'acifi( ( )ceau into ak Nicaregua for $:1,000,000. 

sVIldicaite olr inldi\vidu7al coUld build cltire cami:l for $100O,00,000 a

profits.

This was a lump-suitm bid, he taking all his chances. $:;1,00,00, lllllerla to reqestj 1 prlositionI. of a:ny 1)111 a:nd in were Never Nicaragua Mr. my usum of thos 111bi levels doubtful Ha1rt my lke ilmi mi 1)f :ia were of it, tl $sum1 prices can le1 which e low 1S95, were t ufIl, C(1)hl0l about. do illcosely im subject i ufomla 100, too that. I I entirely bid 111d Ilcreby to pr1ioosition 11ist low, luidlow cerlltii fr 000). deteriniiied we o9 i>f winter The course, discuissed except lile conpeilent conldi confirm. il chif LOndtloll westerii and Made t i fmr M Ill\ the 1h4 of bv lo if einire p;1 Iimito lie ]II bulild I itemi to 11e oter division, as pIartirs ilclose specified iuit do frmial does the surveys. canal. fr their westeri ieibrs prices. it) not and herewith conicre thebiasel proposition division work. in Told their Any any forf I e. (oil athiiiik Bartlett men a theConiiunis

way huil. Tluat c(Oiy nu for whom d guaranwho prices. hey of w hey wou1wesbid dcI 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

As to the character of the material and the liability of the slopes to 

increase the amount of excavation, I knew personally of the borings b

over muttch of the canal i inceididing the eastern divide cut, and ha ye 

the rock in my JlChicaogo office wIhi icli I obtained while the 1hori gs were b

There can be 11o danger of exteiisive slips on the \westernt i vision, and I 

little dahiner oil the eastern division. The clay ovrlving.i. tie rock oni t

divide cut is of the same nature as that through wIiich the cittin gs wer

the railroad, ,a nd these cuts I ave stood perfectly itil now. IUnYer th

borings showed solid( rock to the b1)1m of the cuts.

I would be willing to a ide rta1ke the construction of the enitiire canta

$1I0,U00,(00, except that I ai n4t amuul1bitioils to a sumie sich a IIca v load. 

have to consider it somewhat. I have no doubt that better men than I wo

take it.

Yours, very truly, C. P

I stibmit, Mr. Chairman, that that justifies all I said in rega

Treat ,s proposition to bhiild the eIntire (iml. But that was n

sought bids from othei' p eople, both for the dred 'ing and the 

tion of tile work, aind I hold ill my 1141 a bid made by J

McDonald & Co., of (dte July 2), IS95, tor the c itstructioli of th

I need inot ay, perhial, t those Who iiderstad it that MCI 

Co. are aniong' the hiarge"st and most successftil cmitractors 

co( itt ry. At the present time they are Just closing lip the bu

a railroad1 in Jamala in which they fi ave been engacd fo

years. It las beel ntuder contract for at least five years, but ab

by other parties and they took it up. I visited myself and w

some 60 miles of the road. These people would be backed 

large capital.

80 BROADW

New York, July 

JohN R. BARTI ETT, Esq.,

v ork Cit q, President N. Y. t Xicaraqu a Canal Compalnl, Y 

DEA Sir: I uiners411atad l frioi recent conversations w ith you that you

will shortly be ahble to be in a positioni to proceed with the work of cons

the Nicarmuia C'anal I acco rdalnce with those conversations I herewith 

following preliminary tender to Vou

We shmild be willing tio aiidertake Ihe w(ork at substantially the prices 

tie IliflCerelit classes of work by ( Chief Ewriner Menocal in his report o

location ( of the calia, (1a ted Jiaanarv 31, 1 1910, 4f which you furnished me a copy, with the following cx eptlions: \\ should wanIi t, instead of the prices giv

Menocal, to be paid at I lie following rates:

1. Clearing .per acr

2. Rock excavation.per cubic yard

3. Eat I excavation .-----.----.------ .(0. 

4. Eartl fills . 

5. Earth tinder water.(10. 

6. Rok i builder water .do. 

7. Concrete in place .(10. 

The rest of the work described in Mr. Menocal's estimates we are prepar

cute at his ti gures, which, with the clhangecs tlherefroi last above referred 

make the total amount 10r whIt iceh w\e :ire prelard to build the c(nhal $70,0

pro excltidinig received prefer, work either rials take('omllpany, or This I It in shall tanto would furnished, any these within in proposal hlowe'(ver. be for New other at tohe bcontracts prepared such the five ncessary work York wayapproved is to (lreil''. eastvliin years price nma m11ake c(ivered disposed or to for e from Greytowin as give for insectioll 4ne 50 by they aidyou resle4t by the perthe satisflatory of colitract, i may the to by oi' iatc engineers cent thereof, arrange harbor, the proposals your be toof in cinstiruiction el issued the the company; everin cash bonds fromi upon of that wh4iole contract. which your to g and Greytown for payments the any certiticates canal. 50 company or, the oi entire I other per understand if the faiithfnl you cent I It should larblr work \western contractors of ; caln choose, and ill work performaof b(nds lie bto you I coast. the am made maddone I the haam or caofp
92 NICARAGUA CANAL.

to make ihe cin ract for cash. and I will contemporaneously agree to 

an anoni of the liolds in any syndicate which you nmy prepare w

ecolul to ha f t 1 he amounlit to be paid me upon the whole contract, 

rata of stock.

I s11a le lrepa red to enter into a formal and detailed contract with y

whene er you are ill a Iosition to satisfy me that your financial arrang

liven so far perfected as to insure the receipt by me of the cash necessa

11nlder this contract.

I otuIht to add ht iat i am at present engaged under contract in the co

o

a railway on the island oft Ini a, and I expect, to iinish tihat work a

of the year. I an now employing there ab0iut 8,000lf men, with a large plant

8n v cilI ract is to Ie iimile w itl volt, I should desire to have the same per

the first of 1)ecember, if practicable, so as to arrange for the transfer ofi

plant direct liy fltoiml Jamaica to tile 1sthimurns. I feel sale if) saying g, if you 

that y'oulr tilH i.larrai'eets have been consitiuimated, I should hav

in puttin, L 8 force of 25,000 .1amaicans alone at work upon the canal 

days from the date of contract.

in acI ii'da 1c:c wit Ii our conversation I have made this letter general 

I think, wiii thoe iiodiicai ions of Mr. Moenocal's igiures above referred 

ciently'N spill to he (le basis 0f lortal contract for the construction 

or a plrt of tile caml, if you accede to my terms.

Yours, very truly, JAMEs P. MCDON

TUESDAY

5

Mr. M1ILLEI. Ihere is the proposition made for the dredgi

BIwers, the imvcitor of the suctiio drvdge-the one whic

used so loig at Tacoma and on the Pacific Coast. This w

MURRAY HILL 

New York, M

2

JoHN R. BARTLETT, Esq.,

chairmann Jt'Rorgani:ation Committee,

'icaragua Cadna Construction Company.

DEAR SI: Referring to and cmitirmiring my letter to you of April 14

to say that since recei pt of your reply I have consulted with my assoc

11m1111ilton, Willimniss', of Nevad, and others, who authorize 

the following proplosition, to which we desire your acceptance at as e

practicable.

We r to are, for the const

We desire to join in the syndicate you reorgranin rthcnsrtinfth

Nicaragiua Sh ip Canal and hereby offer to contract for all the dredgi ng 

ileludiifg both harbors, under the esti mates made by Chief Enigineer 

ing date Jhm1ary 1, 15: mU, and amotuntimig to about $11,000 000, on the fol

to Iayient vit: to be ilade all cash, or at your option 20 per cent ca

cent in the 5 per cent gold bonds of the Maritime Canal Company. 

1 ionds to be paid us in pro rata miothly installments as the work pro

bonds to be taken at 70, or- at such price as other contractors may acc

or at the lowest price for which the said bonds are sold by the co

tiie prilr to the i nal completion and opeiinlug of the canal. It is und

ever, I hat this contract shall be binding on nedier party until other c

execilte(1 siimilultaneosly with the dr ied ging are taken oil substanti

terms, ;11ad of equ1al amount or suflicient 811111iut to insure a vigorom

of the whole work, anid ample security given for the payments of cash 

aforesa id.

Should you award us t-e contract we will give snflicivnt and satis

for the pertorimalce, within four years from the connilencement of th

of work above JOHN dated DI said iA], Chairman as Yours, R. naImied, May d soon SIN: red l)M \icarayua 25, gini, very IETT, tas aml lZ0eerr'ing li'cor 1891, tIe a1io( truly, perhaps /yoniz-itn l'anal 1 Esq., 1111 wherein will to contirat coinnence others, a Wall Committee, he, pIropsi s 'ul'iOf for Ntreet, is to formall himsef write peparations Ii Company, Yel 11itiMade v yoill and executed. York, approving to associates, N. for you CARSON, Y.the I by will the active agrees A. above requst B. NEM., prosBowA. to pJ
NICARAGUA CANAL. 2

all the drediginig work required for the construction of the Nicaragua 

under certain terms and conditions mentioned in said proposition, we d

as his associates in the enterprise that we fully endorse and approve said p

and that we will, i CoimJunction with Mr. RIowers, do all and everything 

essary to carry out any contract entered into with the said canal compan

the propositi11n mentioned.

Yours, truly, B. WIL

II. M. 

D. L. 

Mr. MILLER. Now, Mr. Chairman, we present these with 

that they are far more importaint thai aiy estimates that cali 

by anybody as to the unit of prices. They are imide by gentle

are emni(ed inl this business, who k ow it thorom)ily, Oe ot 

spent a 1o1g time in Nicaragua, and the other firm, MlcDonl

has been eligaged in this work inj the Tropics, and they underst

what it meaiis. Now, the statement is made ilequivocall

Treat that the cost of labor, that is the per diem cost of th

m

about one-half what it is in the States, and that they perform 

the amoit of labor which would be performed inl the States. 

words, that the labor cost in removing" earth or doing any ot

that the unit of cost would be precisely what it is in the Uinite

At the present time with the present low price of silver it is 

than that. AMr. Treat's experience of seven months in buil

railroad omghit to be the best possible testimmiy that cal 1e 

reard to a matter of this kind, and in another letter which 

me of the same date, May 2, in regard to labor, lie said:

I told the Commission

Air. DOOLITTLE. What commission does he refer to?

7Mr. iMILLER. lie refers to the Commission of which Colone

is the chairman.

I told the Commission that I considered the labor a little more than half 

as in the United States and the rate of pay was half as much. I neve

faithful workers than the natives of Costa lica and Nicaraguia.

It was stated here yesterday that the labor of the South 

States, Nicaragna and Costa Rica, was worthless; that they 

work. Mr. Treat said lie had two or three himdred hands em

the time.

I never had more faithful workers than the natives of Nicaragua and 

and the Jamaicans were not bad. I expect to be back in three weeks an

glad to come to Wasluinigton then if not too late.

Now, the positions taken by the company is this, that labor 

ragna costs about one-half what it does in the United States

about one-half as effective. If I recollect ariglit the report of 

mission, they Imlake a similar statement, but now they make 

ment United stated about to Colonel that there Mr. it, the and asthat DOOLITTLE. one-fourth )1ILLER. PAPTTERSON. here States. Ludlow labor it you was the yesterday say cost here? cost I to Now, ? will it say of I I of costs would the did the come thatin labor performance one twice prices not like to whii in statemeiit that. understand to asNiearaga paid a call much. given It areof attention amounts that which well piece it is that work known twice of wastoo work way.the fhat was what made fiht was twice wem

I it thunthto 
24 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. MJLLEU. That is my understanding, and that is wha

intended to saty.

MrI. PATTEsON. And the climaitic conditions

Mr. MILLIEl?. EverytI hing approaciin g to it. Mr. Trea

ys, as I have just read in his own language, that the cos

Nicaragua is about the saite as it is in the United State

sdv, you pay onelhialf tie price per day 1br a man and get 

amount of labor. That makes it the siie, as you can rea

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Treat is strongly indorsed in reg

matter; he is said to unhllerstand all about these condition

Mr. AlI [LLER. I asked the secretary of the comiiay to m

our books a statement of what we paid for labor during th

Colonel LEILow. Alr. ( chairmann, may I say i word ther

explain what the position Of the Comiiissinm is?

Mlr. I) i)LITTLE. I think there Will Ile 1)p1)Oituhity after 

Colonel LvmUw. I will only take two minutes.

Mr. MILLER. I have 1n0 objection to that, although I 

awav on the 4 o'clock train.

Colonel Lumtw. It there is no objection. it is this: Th

statement male by the board is not especially with refere

alone or cost of hiring' it or eflectiveness almie, but the init 

of work done, taking into account all matters, is twice a

what it would be for the smne work in the Vunited States

paris1 cverVs every coisideiation affectinpg tile c(st il Nic

Mr. ILLER. I lniidersta iid that to he tile statement n

comiiissiol, aid I ilidelstand also the statement was ma

terday, very deliberately, that the labor cost of any pie

taking the labor by itself, was twice what it was ill the Un

The secretary of our company says:

We p:iiii colored aihorers fr( Ji maica 20 soles per month and subsi

siona Il we paid 25 soles and suibsistence, but I take it that was fOr lova

Twenty solos and sublisteie was the cImitract price. In Cstilmiates 

COintedat 11 tII sles per month. So lar as I call discover it aItulaly costs I 1.50 soles

oi]y. This w\V hld nmk l cost from :i.s to :,.50 soles per ninth

soles werc worth about 72 cents; th 1 i equivalent in Americnn mmiey would, on that

basis, be $22. S to $2(.28; to- day si lis are wNorth less thma 50 cents.

You see this is less tan n e-hal I wihat is pa id in this io

cdlv so aiywlieve. The cost (it labor on the Chicago I )na

to-dly is fIr Coi,)On labor of this same kind .1 ).5O tilel the 

himself; that is, ill g'old. Now, ill estimiatingo the cost of a p

mp iht orloying 0r tell thioisiind men it is invport'hiit to kno

pltion1o is sh ill d and wlia pripo i II is coja1non bibor. I 

this nim-111112 to the chief egilleer of the Chicago I Draiiage (11

this is his answer:

epior t of August, 1895, shows 77 per cent of m skilled labor on the 

ag'e t. aial. 0oi0 a If hot SO110 Iwve extensively, There anl Ligei Now, a imIiI drilljin wvait 0110 1g emplIyed would (loel number t 1'Ihii elSe 'ld cost g (W theve rely and be (ill sciid o LUdloW nwii a perimps h klbir a all wmild gr'4 la stcmIn iil. to hImd. kinds Nw down stated 111:111 Ile LIt 100 slid e \ork of a "1 'romn its o dOllble I yesterday, ie here work. mlen. v1' see 11141v 50 Vrei se it or :aiboit woill to was mlell, It stvaiii There ta1k another loo SAOI lhis 1nd that sick, be lIomnotivo wOrk enii would t1heye uldvisedly, mm, Is ('4)l IMIS practi necessity was be1i1(4e1 imlt ei1n

a icAl lam
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

of tugboats and other steamboats on the water. There wou

told, from 100 to 200 and 300 steam engineers on this whole w

oceall to Ocea.11

Now, it goes without saying there would not be any nece

dolibing all those emipb ,yees. It is not doime on any ailroa

couiiitrv. Tlhey keep a few extra eng 7 )I P5, eersj and when a imin is 

another man takes his plice, but that does 11t cost the comp

thing except t 1e relay mnl. bemuse when a mian goeS 4) twork 

not do his d:1tv he (loe.s ot get any pay, mad it of this vast 

the relay mnic who would hiae to be maintained would not exc

maintained upon a a ilrmad or aly great wk il this coutry

ply want to bring olt the fact here that Mr. Tircat, who is so 

gether the best alhoit 1101y1 1vupo this qu(sitionl of hibor, and Ias 

experience with it, holds lihr. as I have read to yon, the tc ost 

in1 Nicarag'ua , the ciost of the unit of labor fm work, is precise]y 

as it is in the IUnited States.

Now, what other c(st S are there do)wni there wIiili w iuld be 

Il tie 1irst place, we do not pay aIvthi ing for tile rirht of wa

not pay anything for the material. mor 41o we pay miyt hin t

timber taken off the public lands. It is all (iven to us. W

pay ally hil g for rock or sad or anythinig' we wait there, and 

imnpuWt things from abroad. we have the ri'ht to bring them 

without d uty. Our rock (uttig iachinerv. hiists, aid ither m

are bongit ill this (outry or in ELindi at the very lowes

price, and they are delivered at Nic;Iatri a at iPt ecein g 

(ost ill this 01coitiy. l'or inst dance, yu i c ry your flou

provisions froi New York m. New 01)r0l,1arS f1Pr less liI&Iev per 

Ilor., or barrel of' olr bael om rice, than it costs lo bing111 

of flour fromi tile gLrclt mitnls of inniieaplis to New York. 

there tfar a while, and I klnPv what it cost s. The average co

p)ortinl g all these m1en wheni we were wolking ahhs 11211 d

little less thalt 20 cents a Ilay. aid they were well fed all(l ho

cared for, and we sent them (lothingi d PWnl there Ibo Ught in lte li

nmaiket ini thle wld and sold it to thIiem at wxlxit it c( st, an(d 

entirely satisfied with it. There is inot a si l2e iteimi thcc-t

inSt4lI4ce.the it-ell ofceneiit; porlld el irem t wol be taknil t

Pelgium, Emigl and, or GTerm(Wany. Their areiv hi, Wrks in 

and let its see iin relartl to I hat.

It was stated here to-day, in iving prices uponl wilich the 

mneiit was hiagiiio Coii('te work 4l(idwic. that cement cost a certai

Laid (1nvi at tile w rks, blit ill every case thi it inli'l in]eol binty p

the cement in this couitry; hut thlit ceimeit is brought ilito N

if we use it on the canal, wit hot paying mv duty. Let us 

cement cos-)ts. We hve utsod some thlrl. The price of, potl:ii

ill boiid varies accr-d ing t t lie i raml. This vzas writti n th

bond. estimate, February. to port duty tore States in States, Now, be, Nic you of upon duty of the laDlguand thise have course, it portlI and duty unpaid. rang( Uliited celicitit so got ht the far uiponi ed just 1 to price will States, cellenit as froml can add Ill the asiroti cost be cheaply 18'9 then ceilenit. $1.90 to in put and and all more and I was to ill it these machinery a relS Greytown ;41'. 1S), is there -1.75 Iit you put is'Short, pr)iCes when to call eents than in ,41.83 th of there il put Mr. ere lpoii pe it all shipload will it pe-r Mcinocal without is 100 kinls iin works not c(Ost 1ba pounds, -New a s, rrul-iis thing as ill dutyin madcwYothit th
29 NICARAGUA CANAL.

goes ill without duty, and it can be taken here from the Uni

or it can be taken froin Europe if it can be bought any che

The company is under no obligations to go to a particular 

its material, and I submit that there is not a single item en

the cost of this canal of that kitd of iron work--itisied m

IreZ1ges, fr instance, which would not be built there. Thle

built here or on the ( Clyde, and the locomotives would be bui

traUs ported, and wlieii the harbor is opened the cost of f

New York to Grytvin is not nearly as much as it is Irom 

New Y( rk delivered by rail, or even by water.

Now, it is admiitied that, the climate is not as good there a

yet, with the class of habor We have there, the men who are 

wit, the Jamaica neroes, it is held that, for the inmber of 

pay. you are getti-g jst as much labor down there as here

it seenmis to me evidelit to this committee that the great bulk o

is to he done by steal ii p Iwer-by steam eingines anid by elec

not ii imiscle. These great dredgi ig Ifacllilies, 

employ but a small numiinber of mvii. The crew upot this g

you have heard of, built, by Mr. Bales, cmsists of but 17 

will (10 the work of more than 30,000 or 10,000 mIen, working 

els and barrows.

AMr. DI ) OITTi LE. iHe said 60,000.

Mr. MILLER. I nee(d 1iot go to the extreme. Coming now 

excavation. o to the Chicao rainae Cana! and see the 

machine es, drills, the cantilevers, anid the ovenhevad cables f

this wo( rk. Tie aioiut of hulmn muscle to be used is com

small at the preselit day, aid it is much smaller thaii it w

made ou. estimates. Now, we are iot complaiiiipg at the 

tlis Com uni ssion put upon the dredgi ig work, alth loug th

a little more thai ours; but it is not a material differceice. 

rial differeiice in tlie cost they make out oil that pairt of th

copies rom the fact I hat they substantially double the amou

ilg to be done. A cna1 of the same size as the Suez or M

accordliig to their judgmeiit, is not stiticienit for Nicaragu

be twice as wide thirmugh the river aid twice as wide thir )ou

They tell us this is doie For the passage of the great battle 

we are iow engo'aged in building.

Wleni tile plnmi of this canal was laid out no such ship

in tile world. riis canal is laid out large enough to carry 

vessels ill tie world, but the locks would not be wide eiiog

wvi(Ier t han any battle shi i p, bit still they would not be wide 

them to pass. If ie Govenimieit wa ts to hiild it, how 

W dild it cost to build a lock 10 or 15 feet larger tlian we h

Will cost Iim(rc to buil the gates and inaeliiery about it, b

a siimll item. It would not add 5 per cent to the cost of it

tien. I Iiave siiown I yoi from the best authority there is the 

labor tlat charge, do import buildilg-s colistruicted statement I tliiik ot goes ill liel'( withioil and Nicrlo'Ia and I into made have to everything ill show all tiht thisany here stated the is you, canalountry duties yesterday not g iuiaichiiiiery we eno greater I that simply import whlaterer, or iug ill belongs II'rope a1)b)t than and regard refer we buy and, everythiig ito and 1that to isto the in as inthe Nicalrageila sent niow, tle fact, the I cost cheapest have down of Mr. United that of that Ciiirsaid we unit evetheSk
NICARAGUtVA CANAL. 

Panama seems to me was most unfortunate. The Coninissio

that they found no time to take soundings upon the San Ju

above the Ochoa Daim, that they had no time, but they did hav

Nicaragua to take sountings ipi 1n the canal for 12 or 15 

found it to be oily tilled in 4 or 5 feet. I do not care about 

not let us dispute over small things. Days aniid days have b

up here in vast amount of stuff which amomits to nothing 

There seems to be a great deal of personality in it; why, I do 

Let those who have indulged in it explain it as they desire.

The figurtres griVen forth for the estimated cost of dre1 dging -a

were most uintrti iate. If I am wrong( in 1m1y memory Colone

will correct me. 1 (10 not remnemniber any esti mate for any of 

at less tlimn 40 or 50 cents a yard for any import-ant part, althou

may have been some as low as '0. It seems to me it van from 

cents a yard up to a dollar in the estimmates, according to 

Bonaparte WVse :1id Colonel RiVes, who is in the employ of 

ConpaivN in tile niamaagement of the Panania Railroad. le 

may be, I presn me that these fig-iures were arrived at largely 

prices which were paid by the Panama Canal Company in it

when millioiis 11po millions of money were expeinded and wh

doing a irea t aimnii t 4)f wNvrk.

Now, what was paid then, aid let us see what profits we

The Anmericani Contract and Dredgillng CoIIIpany, which plant 

-ln(d brought to (Greytowit for tie purpose of sfirt ing uipon 

AIr. SleVin, the 1m1n 1who orgauidzed that company, a nd was the clief

manager hliri-ino all the years it was at work there at Painmam

the bulk of the work was d4ne for 2 francs per cubic yard for 

some of it donie fi r .3 francs, and(1 some of it for morlre, b1it that 

bulk was somewliere il the neighborhood 4 10 cents per cubl)i 

the dred('-ingr aind they built these powerttil dredges which 

Ilave, aid what was tile resu lIt ? It violates the confidence 

because it is well known in New York, nd cai be knmlw bY 

thIat tile colp a iiy paid, 1u ringp thie great b1lk of tile time 

Work, as high as 50 per cei t dividends per 1m1 iI nth. O(ut of a cmitra

amoumiting- to something oVer .201, ;000, they divided over $

profit on the business, and fll l ord only knows, sir, becintse 

courts did not g( into it, how much of the other half they p

thieves ald corrptors in Paris.

Then what are the good of these prices, and are these pr

brought ill here mider any kind of athorit y as a criterion 

the 44 )st of this ca,al is to be figured upo m ? It seems to me 

most tin fortlllate to brilig it ill here. It has been shown-as 

before-we did a large amount of dredgingi" with these mlach 

acta l cost of 11 cents per culic yarld, a(nd, mind you, we did 

disadVainta geous circimstamices. The coimipa iy (i not 1m

enlougl'hl W(ork anid dredges and usi per investment so If vast actually we i cent thei g I the electric amount. could need to in less (lre( you 1)11S11 the of iiot alid have I than ha\-e ges of the ii morning ghts, theell the nii everything tell operated to we gh work. any c4)st we stop it did, hours al141 takes could eng-ineer of in and anld l tile they ay the the else anywhere we have we instead dredges o1ly dyiv dredges did connected would or wo4rk4'd doneto not contracti)r get of for fromi operate themitave that will having out twenty-fonr with tell half dredging the be paid hours more to two sink, an water' it. the start per hour reliefs tian day, Undou

hours interefor worn a1 4 oie i to nia
298 NICARAGUA CANAL.

when vo take the millions upon millions of yards moved an

cost of pirch'asing' tie dredges and divide up the number of 

yards you will find it is an exceedingdy small sun.

Now. th1en(, I stated here the dther daiy that when I went ove

the ('aiml some four or live years ig(), aii Egiiqlish enlgVineer b

of Doinaldsoi went with me. Ile came as representing the W

(In te, wI I ic II was build Ig i4 the Mai (11 cster Can al I. I e had beeii the chief

eiingincer of one section on1 tluit cmanl. Ile spent a monlth 

Nicarag-iI8, miit lC hcaie to New York and wen t over tile pans or the coinp anId all oir estilimtes. and went home to Loidon to make 

Ill 14nrt mt il v for u aItsn1d all cncriied, LIr. Walker since die( , and his

estalc . 1 be heve. v as not smUld, .111d the 8a iiiigs, who had 

ested iii the matter aid the Aianches'er Can ml, flailed, and y

il reward to that. A few 1m4nths iftr that I visited Lomoi) 

tioti wil i all ItteLipt to interest -I II';lidish svndicite in this 

there I saw Mir. I)oaldsoii and lie told me he had made his re

was c0ideitial aid Ile cmUl 114 slow it to Ime. Ile state

came to li1hif. and I saw it, I would he satisfied with it. I a

reference to I he est imlated cost, and lie told me the estimated 

c'anil Ia little 111re than Mr. Miciacl's, and there the matt

I nilke this statement, sir-it is n4 necessary, perhaps, t

and to say I ai prepared( to iiake it ml oath-blit it appear

onel Luldko thiougit th'it the ervciit of Mr.1)onaldson was 

beiin') ahllsed by the cOmllpav, aini hiis iilmine w8s being uso-

lip this natter al he ougit to 1be inf nrmed of it, and thus 

take back whatever lie may hiave said if' lie said anythii 

ri In to lr. 1 Lullo's test imoniy we uild this letter of the l-4

I 196 That has been real; I will Iot take up your I e

aaii, bit I sobinif to this commitee that there is n4 ai

there of anvtliwn: I have said, not ili the sliightest degree. 

OMi to i0d( it, I f it is aiythig, it is simply to thrmvw di5

huis own eIlimates. ie admits, as lie (lid to me and as I k

In It verify 1r. ' 4c)l' est inmte of qtliiitities. Iie cold 

of, course. lie took the estimates (1 qmantities as Illide b

ciiiiterCO and(1 thel he got his 11111ft : price for doini. tile 

inivesti iatioui III Nic'r.11Thua of wiat 0r comilpally ws d(loi

w

was there. We were then building that railroad I and it w

fin isiIed.

I d( 11t propose to rend th itter 141'. ir. Dnaldson must liave hald

tile id(1a thiat somileoe wI teimptilo to use him. I do 11t0 

it has beei used. I hmve never Ilsed it in any other wIV 

Usii< it now. I have sk ltcd it repeltedly to people wlho h

ot1h cr engineers 11d looked into the qu4estion1, 8114d I state

Domnild soln l, 1:1(11 gi e his statement jpst as I have giveli it to yoU

I1)W. 14'I says here tihat (oiel Ludlow has beell ilicially informed

1 the 1114, u that the company wAvs mii:ukingv of his statemieit. What thai mnent, k leave c(lked in mic"Illis iow. tileollicial if case ill thIt nd Thlat 4 I4t're. queStiml 4)f inkirmed the iuionftimalion is mr. b ' ( a As 'olonmel overiiiimentt Treat, matter my him Liodlow, veiacity to means if lliiciaill.y tm I prove caie ciseguelice, of' here or the everything Ill prepared, of was liowever, United rc2gard it, as I or I bit do didwhat I to States, 1 will Iot said. this notelse know. the sIl bjee

it Wij
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

21 COURTLANDT STR

New York, Ma

lion. WA liNER MILLER,

Arliinyton Hotel, Washington, D. C.

MY DEAR SIR: Referring to the question you asked ine to-day about M

son, the English engineer, who went with you and -Ar. Menocal over the 

canal, I desire to say:

That in 1894, under the auspices of the reorganization 4'4)llittee, th

auxiliary comnniittee of the Niv:iragua Canal formed in L nidon, (d which 

Forward, Sir Andrew Clark, Sir EdwarI Corbin, and others, were mem

session of that coimmittee Mr. I onaldson appeared and 110o(1 to the c(

my presence, a statement as to his knowledge, information, and belief as 

bility and cost of the Nicragna y Canal on the lines and pl :ns Of Mr. MIenoCal.

While Mr. Donahlson said that lie had not gone over the comiputatim

taking the computations as accurate, Under the surveys of Mr. Meiioc:ai

doubt il his mind, first, that the line of cOnstruction wis t1mronghly feasib

that the canal could he built substantially within the es1 iiniate ()f the 

outhougih, taking' in interest, and a larger percentage of coninlgicicies, li

the total suin for which the canal could be built at :20,000,000,.

This statement, as I recollect, was spread out upjion the miiuuites of the 

and I have sent for copies of those iiinutes, with which I vill furnish yo

N1v memory, however, is most distinct iplmi this :tid mubject I kno

Donaldson stated substantizIly what I have said in most eiplhatic teris

Very truly, yours,

Siu'i'i 

Mr. MILLER. "Mr. Weed is known to everybody oil tliis C

and to very imiany people ill this colmtry, for thlt ilmiter, and 

believe anybody will iuderitke to g:llli say thlat stafteieiit. 

for that, as I do not care to carry' it firtiler. But it is Imost rv

that statements made olf myself and Ar. im e "Aocal ad others 

have been called in quest ion by this Comnmission, for wiit piU

not understand, unless it is to create a prejudice against us I h

the coulntry. Let that st.ili1l is it 1mly. I have ever trl(mbeIi 

persoill, politic-11y, or otherwise by attacks of tiat kind, 

it comes ill (1Olnniectimn with this coiupdainy and betoreo a conln

Congress, of which I once had the ho or to be a l1imberl 

protect myself with facts, z114d iiot with g'lenlal st a teumlents.

Now, let us see what there is in this whole thing a1n wher

Concessions were obtained from Ni'aragua by a of g1

and by thei a company was orga nized and they proceeded 

som1e 4 ,00r0,000 or k, 000 an1d sen1d a colps of en114'iIeer

vey the route. It had been surveyed pv'eviouly by the Gov

and Colonel Childs id Iarge uimiber of haln all over the w

ill vestig)ated it, eitei.: as engliieel's 01, ill the ordinarily way (0

over the line. The Cog'ress of tile United States conc

thinlght-om1e1 of themil, ait least-timt the Goverm elt of' t

States ought to have this candI aI(I 4I ght to (ll in4 it a IId 1 u 

so they organized a Comnmnission to go down thei'e :11d iniveS

our work anld to repm t upon it as to whether it, was feasile 

it between the talk should tat becacO'iicesOiol to tHe There would the ( territory use here 'o11111ission is point be absolutely Ias thecost, the whihel moved Compels yo)1 coipal been GovernI'nitiet of m1d ( il waiit critici 'osta a farther perfect. now 11o Us lot y w)v-y and to Rlica. so tof what get I tuiake to verbiage affects ()f the the Itaccording' the Nicarigla (olonel is Comminissio entrance can it the this east. oil not aind result, Nica'a quest Ludlow be toa The to will i great the 11ved ion G to gna and l'reytown not answer 4'onliiissionl states get at deal soil, what all. permit ally at they of ot it?iand fai'ther I II is persm

a the it, when rior, theil paid you becof
300 NICARAGUA CANAL.

tion to that, that they knew notliing about that law; they d

and Simply as enlgilieers. without regard to the concession. 

by that. It is admitted that by building the piers out 

undoubtedly a channel could be maintaiiied by dredging. and 

way clhanni els are maintained in all sea canals at their outl

thioiglit that perhaps there should be a slight change of the 

the lagoon. That is of no consequence. 'We are, howeve

satisfied that the line proposed by the company is better th

proposed by thiem.

Whn we come to the locks, they say they are possible bu

be larger in order to admit battle ships. All right: build t

to take in battle ships or imaginary s1ips that may be built in 

from iiow. TIhen we go thirougi the basins, and that is all ri

4211n be 1uilt; there is no doubt about that. They can be b

there with rock ad clay aml by makig proper wAisteweirs

call be doe. W heii we come to the key of* the situations, 

D an--I will not take up titte in regard to that. as it has bee

byI the hiotir-btit walt is the final result'? The filial result 

( )ch a I)am1 can be built, a rnck-filled dam, by properly protecting the

abutmeiits o1 the sides so that the water cmn not get around 

the Comllission t hinik it Would be better to build t1iis dam 

water could not go over it, and turi the water over waste

built oil the S Inli ('-a ps.

Now, we (1( not object to that, aind whiat would have been 

the compI1y1 cm1e to plit a contract for tio Ochioa Dam and 

MrI'. A!enocal perfeQI , \-IIctly it mlerstoo(d and1(I everybody in the cIoinpaiiy itud(Ierstood that we Ineyver shllubil Iiave gi vein out aiiy contracts 

after we hiad organized a board of cmisultiniig enlginieers of 

mien1 we co1ld finiid in the world, and all of these problems 

~eei 51 ittI to timI, ald i f tley hiad said it was safe6 to 

dam and use it as a weir aid let the water rn over it we s

dolle so. It' tley \ la said it Was safer to biil it liig(h so fl:

sh4 11ld never g"I) oVer it alId iinake wiisteweirs to turn the wa

decision of tih4 board woid have been t1:at tiat siou ld be 

cou irse. "Mr. Al noc al's estimates were based U poii a :1i1 which 

to be feasible, but M\r. .1(114ocal never asked thiat tile comp

unllctaik4' a great work like that withliout submitting it to 

11erV. We gt' to thw riVer and the question is oily,\ a questio

ing mit the rapid dredingp- the river to a stlciint de

ei be done. I lhae bids from responsible people who will 

our pr-ice.

Now, whei you come to tile lake, there is mi1d ritiming o

It is a diliclilt job. l11ndImilbt(edly, but I do not tlink the (Com

an ybody ias :mny idea mr dobt bit that it ca1 be done. THiey 

it will (-4 st more tha ii lwe d0, alid th1 y put a price on that of 20 or t'30

cents a yaid. I do 14t know which ; but I know I can build 

takeiat a.ree for taking. they perfectly tliat Co Thien that, IniissioI c1nil olie Care at to md all. we bmt do satisfied of evell Imr come tile it oit tells it Then less 6 is mhliderli l o iald to being us tI withilw tihat hat we straight Amhile dh fr-omi 1 (()tle western price. done drevd(es,. 5 hir tile cents lrolits. JaI side. \wmrk to for inf becaulse the anida less ormati Now, mid yar-d. flromi whi Tona -bol'are that t1a11 at move ('114 Ile d(b m the -,'ett 6asin O \ye would tlat. theybe lake in-l fin1d that (oin 'colse and tId. 7 tlere'? hiave (hovil. I cenlts, uot mud hilow the 1o It that go isout (11traTola andte Nobthethe of 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

can not be built. Very well, they may be correct and they 

They have not( got sufficient information to determine whether it can

be or not. The company have imade borinogs there, and then 

upper line raised above that and thotih we (lid riot get the fo

we wanted, the last work I ordered done )pon the canal was, I 

Ii. C. Miller and a galg of meii with diamond drills to work 

site of the Tola Dain, and kept them there for several month

was not satisfactory; amid, while we had not finished when th

of the company gave out, they got a good deal of iniformation.

Why should we stop this great work or hold it for a minu

company had an alternative, and that was simply to build the 

excavation right through the basin, the easiest place in the 

take the canal. The Object of building' the Tola Daim was b

that large basin there, to save excavation, and it was chea per 

(lam. If it is not safe to build a dam, then abandon it; but I i

Sodomiel Ludlow's statemnient the company iiever had any such 

tive. That,, was an alternative that was put to me the day I c

the company. I said to Mr. .1Iemocal, "' What about this dam; 

built?" Ie said, "I think that it can, but we do not know; bu

not be built we can build it by excavation just as building 

through 'aly low country."

MIr. Treat went there and told ine he would build the dam 

any trouble providing the foundation was there; but that we 

know and nobody knew. And then, when you come to the h

Brito, there does not seem to be any doubt in the miinds of the 

sion that can be built. They say it ought to be moved a few t

or a few hundred feet farther south, for some reason I do n

what; but for that matter it would have been presented to the 

consulting engineers oil this work and they would have ado

plan or iot. No great work of this kind, or any great wor

bridge, the Brooklyn bridge, or the North River bridge, or 

River bridge pr)ected, is built without the plans being subm

consulting engineers after the company has made its plans; t

are submitted to the ablest men they can get as consulting e

and if they approve it, it goes along just as it is p)rOPosed, an

consulting engL$ineers find that certain changes ought to be m

company makes them, and that is what would have been don

case or in any other great work. No man ever knew of a railro

ten miles long being built without some changes in it after the 

survey was made. How about the Pacific Railroad or any gr

of this character?

But, Mr. Chairman, this work is to be delayed. Why? Be

have not sufficient evidence to do anything. I submit from 

examination of this report that the statement that I have ju

regarding it that the points of difference between the company 

Commission a more watr how made 18 river, H-udson for Black ground or years. high 20 data of gained rises. River, feet theRiver to it about If have rise at sand front willthe We Colonel and AMachuca of been water. do water talking rise on the Black know Ludlow why fairly next river rises Rapids. They with River how the stated, year. bing 25 will captains high tell work where, feet I go 6 They and us gave feet it at with should we has at living when the is tellhe the do me, risen, incorrect foot average be not and fairly us foot I delayed. that can but of working know of stated the and show te wrise thhow falls, high do tharostaon thehim Thn
002 NICARAGUA CANAL.

above the fills it rises only 6 feet, and 2 miles belmv it iis

oly S 4w 10 feet. Tfwo weeks ago, if you had gone to liy m

1hXe show' vl 15 feet of watei ise at the foot of Paliners 

a mile and a, lalf below the rise is less than 6 feet.

1vcivy )m1v knows that water piles up at the foot of th

a

where lie eliaiiiiel is danied up it rises there. The mome

is built the ftlls dispipe;ir, dn instead of a narrow clainel 

river becomes a gr.4 cat lake, whose boundaries are not yet hno

have iot been reacled y a survey. y ing that much 

f holdingi ir tile raiinhfill, the rise wouNl be less rapid and t

woUld he less rapid. I 1lidersiolOd ( olmlel Ludlow to say w

muainta ill I his canal at 1,10 feet, t1mt because of tie waste we

rin (14 wn. Anybody kiows that weirs are built to day mo

Xwhieni a greA'dat 1f)od of water comes the wvirs are opened an

41vcir it. o llt w hen t Iii thomes a, time of low water the weirs 

and it is held hack. The Like can be held at 110 feet, provid

elloIl '1 sIiiplhis wate ill the lake o14) run the canal, and it is e

doc IIot 14 ake 10 Ipcr ce Iit (II it. i\I r. (hairmiaI, I must take the I o'clock

traini with my family, alild I am greatly obliged for your per

to cimi here again to Co)rect thieSC StatemIen ts made in re

former statement.

Thlerlipoll the (omillittee adjourned to meet at 2 p. im. on W

May 6, 1896.

-WEDNESDAY, jlay 

The Conmli tee on Interstate anlid Foreign Commerce thi

lon. William P. 1Iepburii in the chair.

STATEMENT OF MR. A. G. MENOCAL.

T1 (H e ll IAN. Mr. Menocal, we will now hear you.

)1r. MAIFINMAL. Mr. Chairman and members of the commi

beenl directed by Ile Secrti arv of the Navy to report to th

of tle coiniiittee, whihii I a11ve w tlie honor to do, and I w

glad to comply wit your wishn's ill any matter you may des

The (_11A IAN. I suppmse tle order was made f'r the 

iv iog y.1 opportunlity, it' ymu desire to avail yourself of 

ay statement to tile coiimittee. inl connection with the sub

illnfq Ii ry.

il r. PdENOCAL. A great deal h : sbeei b1 1Ore th is comm

I have liot lmil all opportillitv to reald or to hear. I have he

Statements wi ich have beei mill here by Cdonel Ludlow, ho

1upon tlowe st atements I would like to make a few remarks

wards, if the 1m1eibhers of the c ummn it tee who Ihave heard the w

test iimony desire to ask Ine aly qIestions in rei'ard to Colone

stActiment, I will be very g"ld to reply to them to the best of' 

Nicaagoaa exiinat had Caial to Nica having come I stated You examiiie. ragua ill out Comipaiy, hear gn.anal view wNcii 1n Ianded at (Ireytown, bmalr o frequently mnlv I I was oil the was d and 1iud tle li lie 10t before which ne spent line tell P'acific trnveers of coniSider-ing" two tile of I the you weeks, supposed 1n1ial. the coiiittee Coast, they 1moe who cal Wlien or at have less, I thisrveled1 have made tihe a:. in this )lt boardeen theh tim11e beeni statement, a acrloss foted few over hI:id the IhroIiPugh Idivs by WIlle beeii the the file agccc
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

that the c-mial route is thoroughly practicable, that, hey hav

a

over it, over every foot of tile 4r.)ould, anid thiat tiere can 1) I 

as to its practicability; but it Was not that kind of examinati

in mind when I said the board had spent only two wecks, mo

ill the examination of the line. I had in view such an exami

al eflig ineer Would have to make of the physical cIditionis Oi

so as to be able to ascertain and to weigh the ditficulties and 

that those conditions would present iin the construction of suc

as this, and this examinationi, I know from the nature of the 

Call 41ilv be made and this inioirination can only be obtained 

over every foot of the ground.

I -aid in my statement that two weeks more or less had b

inl the examination of the canal route and its vicinity. When 

vicinity, I meant such parts of the country as will be imio

affected by the constructing of1 the cainal-that is to say, su

along the clanal route where embankeunciits were to be built. 

inot on the axis of the canal, but nevertheless form a pa

project of the canal itself. NON\-, I will read for the informati

Cm11111ittee, id iin order to vindicate utyself a s tc the stateilient I ila te

before. a concise syn1opsis of the I1ovellents o the bolrd 

Nicara gua, and then I will leave it to the committee to decide 

I was correct or not il 11my statement. The boi'd arrived at _

oi the 13th of iAlav, amd remind at Greytown mutil the 21

left (Grviy town oil the 21st fir the lake and river, tking the s

Greytown aid going up the river to the lake. They arriv

lake on the 23d of May, having spcnt two days in going up 

of which one day was spent on that portion of the river whi

affected Iby tlihe construction 4)f tie caial.

The 24th was employed by the board in making a trip u

Frio, whch empties into the Like, for a distallce of periip

mi les-the exact d istanice is imtmaterial-a ind then they wen

miles i11t1) the lake and returned to Fort San Carlos. The 

which was to take tie board across the lake was not there, m

repa tedly stated 1by the imlembers of the 1)mald in Illy presen

th11' presence of tlose whilo were around that tie ti me from th

of the 24th until the evenin g of the 261h. when the steal iiier a

San Carlos to take them across the lake, was absolutely was

so they were two (lays there which were declared by the memb

board to be a loss of time to them. They left Fort Smi Carl

eVeliiiig of the 2 tli. () i the mining of the 27th they arriv

forge, O the west shore of the lake, and the assistantis of 

landed there with certain provisions, nteinsils, etc., and the b

filmed oin their way to the capital. at M1ian a. They mle i 

Grenada and ilanagua and returned on the following da

evenlim g. to Eivas.

tion ten myto other Me. certain had sawGrenada When correct memry, days, to the Imeaus did be questions honor printed I to having my mtiade ws not Rivas of perhaps, notes to knmw transportation before by testimony. report whichleft and tile they at my was spent th coinuttee the to were were bednot the coinittee time two I putrinted quite to said chairman to what or go cme Mid to then three clear, to tile. did containinig previously, was here, Brito thatof days not and theI the had hardly the to comne as nature ill committee conmence numieroms been Ioard hunting I had prepared had able of seriouno returthe 1o t for soooperth1s
i)4 NICARAGUA C \NAL.

nat ion of tihe ( ial line. That was a mistake. They did 

two 4)r' m Ihire (d1ys il l ivas at the time;, but tht is iimaterial, because

I will sihw by tihe records that they were in Rivas live days 

three.

Ar. DIuiTTLI'EI'. Durilnii what timne

Air. AlEN(A-L. I ill let yOU k now. I am goingo to follow 

there will he no IIIisIIIIderstmid i:g About this. My veracity 

iuestioned, and I Want to show the ctoniiiittee whlt 6olilldlat

for Imlalking the statement, and will their leave it to the comm

whether I was comFrect mr Imt. They left Ii vas n tlie imorin

1ollowiiig (IaY lild arrived neor Brito zibiOt 4 or 5 o'clock in 

101 and welil into camp. Ip to that time iothinig ld( b

thle canal route. We lmd crossed the line at one point on 

and trIVele\d )y roilds entirely a way froiml the line of the can

c;.111I)ing' p)ia'c, and speit the night there. ()i) the following, 

mjiorlii o., they started for Erito. They arrived at the harbo

at, I belie e, 8 (r 9 o'clock, and tihe exa iii i iiation of the canal 

cornieicedl there.

It is useless to follow the board step by step: lbult I will sa

ail miistak ei I hope to0 be cor-rected right here, that the exami

('OmmilieHtCed oi the :)) h, ind that the board returned to Ri

eveingiu o the 1st of June, iavingo' spent three days between 

the lake in the exaiiaiiiltioni of that pwrtimi of the canal rou

portions of the line were not exaniied. That section runni

the prop)5sed basin of Tola was not examined by the bo

traveled by the road omi the hills; but that is of no conseq

will call that the vicinity of the line, and I couit, those thr

spent il the exm1iiiiiatim of the canal route.

The b ard, as I said, returned to Rivas oil tile 1st of 

rmaiied theve UItil the ;th. T hey started on the eveninlg' 

arrivi n g at Ochit ml fie afteriooi of tile 9t Iif J itte. I1

after arriving' there th 1 y started to IIake Someic exami1aItion of the

sui ouMildiIts. 011 the following day they we it up the rid

the proposed basin off le San arlos, mid sent two days th

catte back to) camnip late ill the afternoon of the second day

and on the 1 2ti they started out the examination of the 

O choa to Gretovi. Six dlays were spent in the examinati

pwrtiln ()f tht ine front Ochoa to Greytown, arri\vinIg. at Gr

the alterin ohm of the 18th. The board left Greytown for 

8tat4S on tle 2ithi.

,Ar. I ) L'ITLE. The 24th of, what month ?

Mr. AllEx<N( (Al,. Of Jfluie. coiseuently, you will see

Mr. ))LITTLE. For the I uited States or Panama?

A'. F LNO.\ . I Iimeai 4)1 their waiy, piractically, to the U17

They touched at Costa 1%ica aiid went to Paiuina, but I 

to know. spent o olays; elingi rio.e coilitry thrt were they 4(1) the -Y-4oeis were Spent froilm wth oni makes Onie 1,h Now. not the ill on (lay Rivas thiat, ill the affected rmlie o1 twenltv their it' (riO\owNvI cotlirt~y. visiting May, you and to ot way Oie; Irito look the aiid by it Of home, those the is aid the canal over three leaving- to i foirty-one capital liulaterlial construction five cmoniiieicce tuichingo, these you days (axys ott days, will uiakes travelinlg d1flereit the otuirteeni where ill at findile Nivas. 24111 mother of twenty they examiial the daiys they dates over of places. canal arrived That June (hi went, the aIil ys; ion makeprtimakthe I anadmnat o

h
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

four days, and two dlays at Sal Ca malos mkes twety-six. 

deduct that I 41m1 forty-(ie days I tlIImI k yoi ItiId t Ia It, th e 1 oi n 

to the examinationi of the canal line fimi the Pacific to the 

Or Vice versa, as oNe yIIIv calI it, fifteeII days, includi Ig t he exam

Of slich p iortio1IS Of the axis 4 the caal as we'l I1re onlc 4ever, 

the sites of the dams, eilbakilments, etc. That is all I have 

that regard, and I think Illy diary is correct ill every respect.

There is a4 tler question ill vihichl Illy veracity hms also w

tionied here. It ha,,- beeii stated here that tie enIgin eIr 1em

this board vere the first engineers who visited a certain iom)ti

line.

Mr. STMAN. The oly engineers, it vas statIed.

Mr. M ENOCAL. I ami11 glad yolt corirect Ile, because I only 

from hearsay, I8 I have not seen the testiimlly sut licieitly t

me to pick out frm it what is essential aiid deserves c44nsildc

have been td that the statement hits been made here tImt ti

are the oily e-nieers vho have visited some section (d, the N

Canal line, that sectiol being between the Dailta ai1ul N'icholson 

almilng the line (of the enbaihments of the San Franllci4'41.

I want to say to the colnIIlittee positively, '111d I cii t;lke 

1iecessalry, that I alth ile first enigineer tIhat ever xpI)oIed1 I ha

of the c'ultr y, '1111 1 (14) hot think I will be inistakei when I 

the first edin'a ted white maIln vwl went up tihe Saii F 

Nichllsmn creeks; I Ii'st did so ill 187t. I was trvin ti 1i n

m14)r'e M, less d irectly frm Ochoa to ( reytowNu. Up t that f ile 

routes prilp)sed fin. a canal across )Nical'aguanlhI h.a 1(411fWed c 1

bank of the river. I knew the line was a l4n.g IIe. 1 her4 

g"reot mly 41ieing dilliculties connected with it, atid I wa

to finldI a pith thil'4r1gh these ranges 40t 144hills ()f the SalN 1

which woill enable me to (lIcate a line mITore Or less direct tro 

town to ()choa. .1 v first examiiatioi, as I said, was in . 

I devoted a til Iuber of dlays .1grail 1) the iI(4exporatIm4din 4 )hat s

the ( utry. I wvas very much encouraged by this examiiua tiol

als ex8!miilned ill Is8; the upper p option of the valley (& tlt' 

from G r11''eytoNvil, vhlicli, togetherI with the preliminary examiiii it 

previously iade, convinced ite that a path existed het weeni ti

through which I could locate a practical line for the Ibiuildiin 2:

from Ochma to Greywn

In 1885 this matter was brought before the Navy I aI'tm

reniember correctly, by Admiral A millimel, who had fol14wel I 

from its ilcepti in, and lie sugested to the Secretarly of the N

I be s-1nt to 4Nicarag1ua to ru a liie across that nty 1 d1114

a c1nal route could be l1-ated there. I vas orderel h1 Nic.d

Charge 4f a party of engineers to 1111ke silr-veys. I there ra I 

Ochoa to tie divide. I 11,(1 aniothcr party 1unnill a'ros th 

by was icl froml route that encoura organized ragua, published. mIly Somle only conditions country. Greytownl was assistants N and (red gentlemen C a practical an -20preliminary at by association, last were I to the returned and the a aud interested results company suchi Inmyself divide. one, co which as it to obtained bit were would was the be iinThe later s1ticient located. the sich U7nited organized result's eCnable Nicarigim obtained by 'Is to this States, (W ()1 to 1s demon for satisfy tlhes( course, investigation. to a the C,111:11 )i concession and stia 4,'8te examina'tiocoinistructius th( te wi this that a l4atithit ca'nverefrta
(10G N ICANAGUA CANAL.

caIIal. I was tlieii pointedd chief eng'iiicer of this compan

tlicii Imade I caiefil n11A whNt we cIII the inal location of

Snell asi was required ill tlie conlcess; iol. Ill makingo, this lo

eigrince r who was ill car'0' o tile lO(ationi of that portion 

Fralisco V;Illey, nt being t1lormugfhly familiar with the gro

colidera'ble (Iilhi'ulty ill locating' 11ihe foothills that should 

bise (W cimb:a1kmlents whlici load been proposed, and wh

einuag;1ed ill tlhe conllstiruction of the gun shops at Washiigton 

works of the Nay ep:rttellt the report camllie from11 this eng

they had been I(le (('8. te th tese hills and establish th

bilit v of' this line of' emdlikient.

Mr. I>LU1"ILL. \ What aie those hills?

,Nh'. II 1ENOCAL. TheyN' are the foothiills which now form the 

Air. DI)oi 'ixi-i.i. Between the ciial amid th le river?

,1Ai. 1iivtec. et wecn I he (ml ani the river. I went to 

y 1hitny ia stated 1thIt illy rIpitat ion, is well as lie p

mdepened, ill lily opinion, upn the s5(utionu of this pro

before its. I hiad b1een over the conlitry and knew the hills w

but the VCeitatioli is so dise tlhat yOU could not see 

directly befine you, an(d t these enlg ilcers, liviNIg40, never beelI 

c(mOltry before, Foilind co lsiderable difficulty ill findliingu the 

wiich c pir 1pmsed to) build the embineiets. Secretary 

a n V i( pclissionl to proceed It once to -Nicargua-tu. I obta

at 4 o'clock ini the afternoon froim hii, and I started the uie

arrived at Ni cazi'dgua, and I devo (ted myself to the examina

locatioll of all these hiills, 811nd withIi three pmties 01' clii'inec

to (1evelqp ald mcilieCt thieimi so is to ()btz8i1 a c1ai ()V line o

iments, With which we pro'psed to hold the water iin thi

ba-in.

LD)r. I ) I, 1,I'TLE. I wish you would state about your go

river at that time, anil Aboit what point yOU Stqp)p)('d.

Air. AIENO"AL. (ur he1114dquarters wer itlen at tihie Mouith 

San Friaicisco. It' yot will allow me to point it out, my he

we're at thlese islands you See lere, and I would take a c

111M1rilor (there is a gentle ial1 present, wo \\as iny secr

could testilIy to that, it it was necessary), and I would go 

Franc isco .md tlien mvcr these hills and spm1 id more or less 

thIem to develop p) th em. Thie stat eminent t the boird ias been 

upon the authority of a 111,11 by the na1mi1e of F. P. Davis. 

D avis wenli to Nicaragu a 61 for the first time ill the latter p (art 

early ii18i . Up1 to that t ime he had never seell the coiltr

lie a8rri v ed ;it Ni1lr alie was oidered to lmaite a portion of 

lih e hicol sil1ce beei a(balldiOed, aldo lie diol not kInow 

thi ig' of tiese hills ex cept whiat lie heard f1romll otihe'rs. whiell location theransferred betwCee there be I))Il'ingo Ulitc(1 16111(t c ohrii 10caItion hiow, e I states. of the i 11t so this low \wOlrk (1 what was Some fimn p(P4sopls of Sa 's time r;1pitime1, the to wIs is Ill my his coinnect now when assistant, bowcr li the 111(1 d, work Pi\v'r Air. sisNded caicod meantime (m this 1 thicii umite (m the report n11(d the m(lthe in on c4mpllVetiol and the upwpr lie Nmia'agua, this the divide was withdrew 8.11 obtain 'river chain mimade line 111,111illoA to of bank, an(d the of' the a this that tie ny, hills line putof and eg'i Service meat ie the Grenlaid of them to itri

he iou hillMr. ieeemwhfame, w
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

referred, and wliu'l it has been stated to this committee I never 

been thoroughly exami iied by three parties of engineers. The 

canal embankment was laid down pactically as it is to-dty, w

Slight modifications inade ifter more complete investigations 

cross section of every lill and every valley, aid it is practi

simie as it was located in 1888 when I was there, and any eng

see that. That is all I think that is necessary for me to say i

tionl with that Imatter.

Now, there are a great ima iiy questions which have bein ra

alfectiig more or less my ability is nn engineer, and even 

an(I I cuii not refer to them now, beramuse I have In Iot seeIU the te

and part of iy in for itioll of the test imoiny is hearsay ; but I su

Imtelmbi ers of the committee, who are thorou y 'hIly 1ii iiar with ti

ject, will be good enough to ask questions ont ally points which 

thiik YSs41itilal, aid I will be ghul to reply to the best of m

Later oil, when this volhnnhiotis testimony is printed, if I find 

thing- essential thIat really need s considerations or reply, I 

pills to do so. Il the Imneaintimnie I refer the committee to i my 

statemieiit, which has IbC ee printed in that testimony v, aii I will he williiio to stanid by it. I have itot a word to add or a word to ta

r. Claiir11ai1, I really do not know whether I should proceed 

inmat tens. w iich I do inot regIard as very essential. Pe riaps the ie

of the committee may want to ask some questions, and I wil

to reply to them.

The CHAIR-MAN. Mr. Meliocal, I would like to ask yo a 

You sent to me a copy of the testimony delivered here at a lcar

certain amneiidmieits or corrections?

Mr. MElNOCAL. Ye-', 'Sir.

,11r. PAT"TER84N. le seated, sir.

EMr. AJlENt 8'AL. Thank you.

The CHAlA1iUTAN. Those corrections are mIade with a pet 

except oe?

Mr. xl ENOtAL. Yes, sir.

The C4'iiAiiMAN. On page 57 where you strike out the fig

insert the figure 2 in pencil-when did you mak e thlat last co

It is in answer to a question by Mr. Beiett: "At what do 

mate the cost of thie Ochoa l f"1111 ?"

EMr. i\iENOCAL. Well, sir, 1 have not had that document in 

since. I will speak to the committee for a moment, and per

expl,1nationl

Thie (FAHIAN. I call your atteiition to it, Ind you see this c

is ill pencil atid all the others are in ink.

The CLEIK. The clerk will say that a gentleman called an

for that copy and said

Mr. MENOCAL. What g)entfleman,11? correction. that. committee? toamper The Mr. The Mr. The you-- gentlemai MENOCAL. KERN CLEIK. CImizAmIAN. CHAIR1m7IAN. It withs inniaterial I the (the do And to stenographic not gentleman I Imiake I \Whohave sid want see and nmade a hin that nocrrection to I referred here will know Mr. 1mde records that grive Menoc4Il now. from that correction? in to). of my the you this correction When reasons authorized stenographic whatt committee? Mr. Wh11 authority for but Menocal at sayitig him autho

recorI wilto yoi
08 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Mr. KERN. Well, ir. Chairman, I did not consider I was 

with th e icrds, anld I did not (1o it withmiut spei hnigi& to th

the conilnittee. I siiiply in converse 1tion mentioned the ma

rtdclsiOm(l Al r. l Meiocal said that he

T iic11A IRMAN. XV ho au t1h ovized you, sir, to iiiake that ch

A\1r. K ERN. I t1 li Ik Al1r. MCiocal's statement will clear that 

The I Al IAN. I am asking you the oliestioll, siri

Alr. K ERN. Alr. Al(II( C); I sj)oke to limiii about it.

The C('A I1IMAN. I low did it illterest you, if you please?

A1 . 1 )o)LITTLE. There is this to be said about it.

The CI hAlI UMAN. I want that t0elitlelliall to tliake all eXplanation. I

ani the custodian of this paper.

Alr. I) t()TTLE. 1 am inot seeki ng to make any explanation. I wanut

) say th is. however, that this gentleman, as Mir. Alelocal h

was w\ith him ill Ni(a[ land was here at the time the wri

mnt was submit ed to this committee, and is a gciitleia

huwni rihdt wvell siice I have been here, and so far as I aii 

lld loi my k uowlcdlge of him, I feel satisfied in whatever 

s11ppo1ed'ct I i was lol low ing a proper (cilrse.

Thi (i A i MAN. \ill you inot let him say whvat he did fir

Of m ing i poiriies an1d explanations?

11r. D) LITTL E. I ain 11t desiriing to do that. The oinly 

desir14illS to (i is to 1rather 1i-lieve wiat under the circumi stances would

be a vry emb ara ssing situation, which lie says Mr. Meno

mient will cdenr tl, and that is all I have to suggest. Of c

llwt walli to

'Hie ciiA IAN. I think I iundenstaiid something about th

Ii Yse I1. The miatter becomes important, as the committee w

1wi*, 1ec'mse a erit ici si was ia(Ide by one of the gentlemen o

iimissc ii refirv iiing to th1it clai i e in the estimate, and now, 

said, 1 wanted to hon who had done it.

.ir. KEAZN. I Would like to say t'is, it you will permit me, 

1mia ii, that tihe attention of tile clerk was called to the fact 

was a chmiare nale, amid it was not made in a sulre-ptitious wa

simply milae with his knowledgec

The C1lll 1 AN. You did not call my atentioi t) it

l i. 1K i N. I thoul lt it would be called4o vour attention. 

it was well known it would be called to your attention by t

the ctnini i tee.

The CLEU I su p posed that Mr. lenocal had authoriz

makhe it.

Alr. A ENEC(AL. I could nlot say I authorized it. When I ar

I wO or th-vce days ago, I met Mr. Kern. and lie spoke of nume

cmntained in i lie pri nted testimony. I told him there were a g

The ('AiiA\ AN. um What do you mean by errors'?

beiiig to and itTl' The .X1'. The was lr : 111. feet, you .s.AlENtWAL. 11IlI. C AllnEoA -ecried C HAIRMAN. EN had IlI viich OCAL. Iot I to A L. N. are ailved mioule I Yes; s No. BI I)miieaii .10 absurd siv; t teet. you that aid you hvre I mean errors, reduciing correction. had aIll in and figures, goi read grammatical I as imet the anybody this to Mr. qualitities, sharpest colme subsequent Kern call errors? to and tlat curvatuie see. t lie to a1d Thertold its -Atedaop
NICARAGUA CANAL.

seen numerous errors in the prilited testimony, and I said 

rected one of the prilited copies ill great haste a141 sent it to 

man of the committee, correcting on ily those thing's which 

could see were material errors, and I saw one in w'bich the 

beiig asked as to what would be the probable cost of the O

and I had stated k3,000,000. I did not attach mud h importa

as I was in great haste, and I sent it to you wit a letter askin

those errors corrected. I might have left in the :-foot curvat

river, but anybody could see it was a mistake. It is an error

or something. Nobody would ii take adNVantage of that, but w

asked what would be the cost of the Ochoa Dam, I had no 

hand, amd, ill as I was, I repeated I'omi memory what I thou

time was more or less so.

I had not seen these documents for a long time, except for a 

perhaps a week or so, after I returned from Nicarag'ua, and 

even looked at the estimates. I had other matters to atten

have iiot paid much attention to the Nicarag'ua Cantil l for some 

I said tihlat the sectioni from Ochoa to Grey1t)wii will cost so 

spea8kingr trmn nemory, and when I was a asked wv hat tlie Ocho4a D

cost, I m1a11y mave said inside of ,000,)00, but I believe, howe

12,000,000, as I could not remember the aimonmit. I knew it 

illion- 1,200,00or vicil ity ;1,900,000, of or somethii g'of that hi ld- I 

ad in order 14ot to estimate too low, so as not to mike it a pp

desiredd to mizi nify the great benefits to be derivedl frotm the C

of' the canal by the method I had proposed, I 1tIink I put tile 

ures at *2,000,mm, which is little eiiough, amd wheii I met Mr. 

I said that there was an error I had overlooked wiien I cor

printed testimony.

I didi not correct that error, for the rea smn it was ninna te

1)0,11 hdul just published the last estimate I made, which 

estimate of that daim to be less than a million dollars, aild cOi

there was no rea son why I should co()inie here before the c mm

say it was $3, IV)OW when the committee or aiyb)1dy colld 

It could not be expected that I should be absolutely exNact*, 

lnliderMt0() fd I was talk ing f rom mem y, hastily, and iii ill 

met Mr. Kern, and told him I had not cOr1r4cted it, 1id tit 

tage had been taken of that error; and I tliink Mr. IKern 

was time yet to eoi'rrect it. Pcrlaps I told him I shuld be v

lie did so. 1 41o n 4t remember the conversationi, but that is 

caine ab it. I hlinVe not had the paper in my hands, and hav

the correction imyvselt.

INow, with th ie permission of the conunittee, I will refer t

matter which has been brougit before you here. It has be

that there is an error of a t lot in the level of the canal ftmrm 

to Ocho a, aiid that one of lily assistants by the noae of Be

elgaged in correcting those levels when the work was sus

for cross that Stes. graphed lie the absolutely Nicaraigna. If has it. sites work there sections replied )1r. hini of I nothing is knew was Bennett's dans Such aiid an of completed, saying error that the asked and a about statemeiit sites was lastines iii it what it, was, the a he year's of and orfact had levels was just all embakinents. is whoever from work incorrect, dams been discharged as of memory, I the hisin and made remmbered, Nicaragiua last canald eibankmienku the and work but, there in statement left Nicaraguto in was the is be Nicafor no to rel,tssut
310 NICARAGUA CANAL.

done so for a purpose; and if the statement has been made by 

neer, Mr. Davis, who has been ineiitioied in this investigatio

lated the trust I hld placed in him, because he never reporte

and he was responsible for tile correctness of all surveys and 

miade there for the last two and onie-hialf years, when he wa

assistant; and as to Mr. Bennett beinto coniected with the c

these leveIs, the statement is incorrect and has 11o fotundationl 

Many questimls 1mve been raised here about engineering 

nmiierous for me to remember now. I will at the proper t

them up if I have an opportunity, but as I have said before, 

fetly- willingl to stand by the written statement I have su

the committee. I have not one word to take back or to add 

Mr. DOuLITTLE. That is, not your verbal statement to the 

but the manuscript statement?

Mr. MENOCAL. The manuscript statement which I have 

There seems to be a mismiderstauding in one or two point

would like to bring before the committee. It has been state

proposition of keeping the lake at 110 feet above sea lev

fluctiuation of a toot aMid a half above or below that level 

stated in the written statement is sometlii igt novel. Well, 

muian, 1 will leave that question for eieers to decide. W

discussing here all the elements of the problem, but I wil

that 1 do not believe that there is an engkiner in the world wh

for a moment t that w~hen I said the level of Lake N icaragua 

maintainied at 110 f1eet that I meant that this level should be 

invariable.

Mr. Chairman, you ctan not control it. It is a Ltrge lake in 

where there is a tremendous rainfall. You call not take tlie 

of the lake, or draw it out as fist as it aiccumulates by Ithe 

discharg'e of the rivers flowiig into it. It is bound to rise i

season until it attalills tie re(qiired hydrialic iea d to in crea

sutl'iently to carry off the surplus water, atd it has to fall 

season 1 meca use there is little or ii water I1 >win g into the 

you are drawing from it fhr the operations of the canal and 

for evapoiratioi, etc. This imiumense Like is iiot a tub with 

attached to it by wvhi jchi you call c' ntrol it it will so tiat it 4 

u1, or that you can fill p ' and keep at tie desired level. I

sible to do so. During the Ia ily season thli water accumul

like anid gradiially runs oil' by reason of the increased he

the dry season, w\hiei little or no water flows into it, the l

j

sarily ills. 1 did not, ogo into these small particul ars ill m

beeiuse I did 1it reg)oard it as inecessary.

The CIIAIIDIAN. Air. AMenocal, right there-is it not essen

coil)pletene(ss of your en terprise that you should maintain it 

as a m1nini1m?

.Air. MEIENo'A,. No t ncccssar'il y. I could cliaige my ente

make terial. I of' whietlier may for adopt the what would (red(gin the river b it you aly If make 106 necessa it imoded and g it level regard would feet, was oi that lake ymi 'ry the by or not it lake to excava is make choose, raisi river be be becise siiciently hiigh themmre iit it tio SaiN pr'vi41e4I 14S eiiourh mnimum the of ecom1mical iiin J11,1. feet, floodiuug lake deep), flit so or that anid 4 river. levl that so 112or to valmble the that it there fet; 5 there biy is Mir. depthIi feet whlen t a suci would hat will Chmirainlands question more of is the priva yet your be entiin thla1b
NICANA(UA CANAL. 

water enough in the channel to float such ships as you propo

through the canal.

The C2AIizmAN. My query was based upont the suppositio

expected to have your 28 Or 30 fet, or whI atever it is, throug

and tiroug'ih the ciiminel, which you dredge in the lake on th

tion that you imiainitain it at 110 feet

Mr. MENOCAL. T i't js treated

The CIIAIR AN. Suppose that that is your piai, then wi

necessary for you to mnaitaiii the level at 110 feet?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir; that is all treated in tliat printed 

you have before you; that question is gone over fully. If t

we have proposed iin the river is tempoirarily 28 feet, anid ti

be contr illed within 2 ftet, whliich I am coilident can be do

be allowed to rise to 111 feet mid to fall to 109 f eet; ow it t

tion is a's much as 3 feet, the maximiltui and minimum levels 

111.1j to 10(SA. What woul be the result'? If we have a chan

start of 28 feet deptil and the lake fals to the miniminm lev

still have 264 feet in the river. NVhen it rises we will have 

is needed, and whten it falls to the minimum we have still 

water-just the saimie, or nearly as iuchi, as amy cana1 ili 

to-day-alid I cotiteil that the fluctation is inevitable; it 

sary condition, aid ymo u cai not build a caal there witlumt 

Mr. D(WLITTLE. You speak of 26' feet as being as deep a

canal. I las not the Suez been recently (redg4cd aInd deepen

Mr. MENCAL. Not to my knowledge, but it may be. The M

Canal aind the Nicl Canal, wlich are tile latest t hat ha v e been

and built, so Car as 1. know, have tiat dept h. 1 was u poll til

ter Canal duItrinvg its construction, visiti ig, it firc( gently duri

two years, in close relations with the eniv'iiecrs and eoitra

spent (lys over it, aInd r have a table here showi iing the de

different cai als of the wo rld. Would you like to see it?

Mr. I o LITTLE. It y lease. \\ hat (4 you iad troi

iMlr. 71 LNou( AL. 1 81111 reliinf. from 8 itper thlat I prepar

Niea~una i1893, la8al a 111 tlese ilu'ures are frioimt official d

No, I will give you the deptIs of the vairions canals. Tih 

di meniolts of the Suez Cal was 26.2 leet il depth, a8d 

diimens0-ions whici are 114W bing carried (1 it wVill Ibe oly to 

Tbe Manchester Canal is 2 feet in deptli, Tihe Amsterda in 

feet, the Corfitth Gana] is 28 feet, the canll prop sed at, Pana

feet, aid the Kiel C1aal is 28 leet ill depth.

Mr. BENNETT. Will the ]iel Ciaial admit a vessel drawitn

water 

AIr. MENOCAL. No, sir. There are few vessels inl the wmr

28 feet. There are few 1 battle ships drawing nmich Over 25 tf

Mr. BENNETT. BOW miuChI (141 1hattle slil ps draw ?

Mr. MENM(AL. I sh1o1h( say 25 teet, the largest. The Ind

in so battle are Imerce ben the That Mr.r. New planned now, canal built is, MENOCAL. PA of ships however, but TTE ork, the since ,s llsthey had locks world; drawsto with N. mnak a. These not were would small ()lie 25.3. e they a been the Iar Imade. qIestion locks matter, ger have were C111 built bean, wide w\vce 118 mtade ill 40 as inbe or VaI(igable originally en and it that increased even 70 on only in ghi feet connection. ftir order requires designed to wide. desigoiid battle 'Icco il to wil4thl passlluiodate a Battle slips? as lit Are at t Iargthiealbile a m
)12 NICARAGUA CANAL.

of foundations and larger gates. That is all. The ques

whether the locks should be built 70 feet wide or 80 feet wid

considered by the company, and I am free to say that th

has decided that if the canal is built under its control the w

locks shall be 80 feet. Is there anything else the committee 

to ask

Mr. J(4)AT. What is the beam of the largest battle ship now

Mr. MENOCAL. If I am not mistaken, it is 73 feet. Is n

Air. Endicott?

Mr. 1' NDIc( )T. It is 72.3.

Mr. AI\ENOCAL. I kiew it was in the neighborhood of 7

co1rse, tiere Was iio iiecessity when the locks were desigiie

them larger than 70 feet, and if the caml is to be built f

cial pilrposes only even now no company will undertake 

several milli ns of dollars to make a canal large eiiotiglh to 

date a few shiips which may iiever pass through the ('an

meaiiti me, the company would lose the interest on the mone

aid thte amount of tolls pai(l by such ships passing through 

w uld int jnstitfy the c(e1aipaniy in spendiiig a Large ad(lditio

money necessary to mIiake the canal iarge eiioutgh to pass th

(mia Il was designedd f' eimercial purposes nda evidently is of sulfficiitt (1imen1siis to pass all the coiimmerce that will seek it.

1ATTERSON. -. Tihat is true, but at the same time if the 

Canal was conistructed it would be a very essential part 4)

41 efse.

Al 1. IENoCAL. No d mibt, sir. I say when we were (les

canal these battle sliips had inot been built. It was desi

enough to take in all the war ships that had beei built up t

Siince theni these inwv ships have coie into existence, but, o

vouild 1be vely g(l4d to see the width of the locks increase

ellible tIem to pass through it.

Alr. D u ITT LE. Aml if it were built as a Governmnent ent

Mr. M ENOCAL. if it were biuilt as a Goveriment enterpri's

the ( i overt iim enit cml'(d a thord to speiiI several mil lions of d

cially for that purpIse, because I have such opiiiion of the 

1f lis a1 to the Goverilmelit tihat I ihinilk tle 4 oven1m1e11

jslifie(l ill bluilding.F it it it was only as a military calnl, iiidc

its gral iimOtmIce to the Commierce of the Uinited States

Air. I * 'T I{S()N. I WIS v'ry muitihi impl1'eMsed N with coloine

st:1feei4.it in rv garvd to the bottom of the San Jan i Rive

Now, have yo m.ale use fully of soiiiings and boring the

21. IN 4AL. I refer yo u aoai1 to thiat writtlien sIta tei

mai:tter( ot the plais of the company has beeii somewhat miis

(l11c probably to tile ma iii er ii which the subject i as come 

('4111 iittee. FTe compiianIy was organlized and enineers w

as withiii date oF (F were verytop could fleers; tI) seven comilse cmllete of certaiti nm'ht not Nii eigiteen blit the 1)1phic withI paurtivs be horings after in 4onlcessioii. comlitiont made, sections i other the ist months-I ro f1he of plan1 ctioms could sections1s until engineers preliiniiary (01* to and make th1e The the iott1 developed think lile ofbe route liii-a linal location being theme taken surveys location that locationi whIichi comitry with distributted until boring' of was is this we were tihe was canal the boritigs imide kiew Gover'nmnent part lengthi soiiaie., Iiine completed. along ies with co4lllh Was were tao6 of and all locattimthe hot not V4e;is of dN
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Theni, in eighteen mionthls or less, these plans were made from 

obtained by the original surveys arn. the plans completed suff

detail to be submitted to the Government of Nicaragtua for its 

and they were approved ; but they were delicient in a vreat liany

No b rings had yet been taken at the site of Ocioa Dam, and n

with the diamond drill had been taken at the deep cuts or at 

the Tola Dam. West of the lake there were oily a few boii

with an auger, such as were able to be made in that short 

time, fi r the reason, as I have stated, that the line was not y

local ted. When this preliminary examination and plans were 

st iit'd cost was made, based OL siurtace indicatiOns. At oc

is a hill on which rocks crPp out at the south abutment of the 

dam. There is an island a little below it, which in the dry seas

gravel all around as far as can be seen. The abutting hills 

you call see that.

Mr. PATTERSON. That is on the north side?

M r. MENOCAL. On both sides; clay with bowhders projecting 

and there. especially so on the south side. Well, we had to 

estimate as near an appr)ximation as could be made with tile 

tion avaihible, and were guided by suiface indications and 

auger 1)01i ngs which had been made up to that date. The p

imWUe were submitted to the Government of Nicaraigua tor 

IPenldiin g the a pproval of the pla s, a perimd of pr(dbably six m

so, the engineers were retained in Nicara gim a making additiona

amnd borings. Mr. Francis Le I a ron was ill charge of these e

In October, 1889, the company having obtained the 

(cOil I mmence wi rk of (' Nstructi on, to complete the fini al surveys, ald(l to

mak e the eessary borigs, we purc'hd ( diallimi drills, 

another large corps of' enlieers, and returiied to Ni'aragua

whole line was relocated ill detail.

The line of the eastern divide cut was shifted from the line 

located by Eni'itweor Davis to another line. which I had fund 

and which I thought was the best; but whieni I sent Illy assist

to mn ake the 1m"atio n in 1889, lie started oi another liiie, which 

been examined by me ii 18,5. I had g-viven orders t survey 1o

but only one was local ted for iack of tiie, amil, as [-I mayve sta

was chfainmged later on. The line of embankmments wvas more 

located to better comf orm b the to)ograpI iy of the 'ititry, aii

Were count inued on the wihdle line to the Ibttom of the canal 

sides and at tlie OcI a Dim. At Ochoa I)ami we amve takell

enough to satisfy us that the hills are clay, with bowhders, and 

bottom sanud as far as we have gone.

The. CIAIAN, May 1 ask you there what was time depth 

borinmgs?

Mr. MENOCAL. In the river?

from feet 70 of satisfy struction be The Mr. The ) tl'e feet, found 1. deep, memor-y, MEN borings MENOCAL. CI CHAIRmAN. me and of there anMd that L11IN. a we CAL. stone there? I I found if think, r14ck have From On you At A masonry tid the didnothing Ochmoa no if goii 24 IabUtting not douImmeits deep the am to dami DaM; but lie 26 bottom n enugh, at at feet, clay. ill hills a ye, that error, depth here) of probably some but sir. point the one were if that river, of pncticalble. such or 28 them would -M two what feet, a fet dam weit (I was miksulfiam and waa
314 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Voncrete or stOle it would be extremitely expensive and very 

The CkA IlZMAN. W\ere these boringrs made with the diam

i'. M-ENOCAL. No, sir.

The CILA I AAN. They were made with an anger?

Al1'. AlELNOCAL. Yes, sit'.

'le CIIAilMAN. Did that reach rock?

Ml'. MENOCAL. We did ili pLices reach rock which I 

bowldcr ers. I do lnot tlink we Struck a rock ledge in any place. Based

on thaIt ilfor'iimatioin, I cate to the coIClusion a stone dam th

practicable.

M1r. I) lOLITTLE. Masotiry, you mean?

A! r. M 1:No'('AL. A masoliry dam.

Al r. PATTER8 iN. You found no rock oil the bottom of t

was all satld?

Ml'. AINOCAL. All sa1d ; of suc a depth, as I Stated 

make the coiistriiction of a itasoiry (him, if not impracticable

extpen)st1bei ve.

,Air. NOONAN. I Uii(derstood you to say you found rock th

clay?

M. AENOCAL. I beg your pardoii; I ANill come to that 

abutting hills are clay aid the bed or" the river is samd.

-Mr. No)NAN. W\ at is tile Chia raie r of' I ie saud-q uicks

111'. EINOCA L. No, sir-; coar:se I \ver silt atnd sand, sucli 

in the alluvial sevtiou of the S:mi JIti:1i.

Air. PATTENs(N. My atteioiti ha s bee1 called to this 

your report of 1 8I: "At 11the site of tie Och1o ( Daiii, grave

rock, ill the order 1n an ed, are showii by the borigs."

All'. MENOCAL. Is that t he repi)O(t of 189:

Ar. PA TFUL S(N. Yes, Sir; 1593.

Alr. D .ITTLE. Was th at tile Ch ica go report?

Air. IE ,CAL. I would like to see what paper it is and on 

Where is tlat ?

All'. PATTEUs(N. It is rit there; I will shiow it to yo

out on page of pa()Iplet.

Al. A ENI CAL. Yes, sir; I see the statemciit. I will e

nIow. W\hCie the original report ad plans were mlade, as 

the coniliiiittee a niioIietIt a4o, we were glii(led by surthee 

oily. We saw there tihmat tile hills were cav with inui(cati

at s nIte depthli, siice nrnk was cn)ppng' out (oi t ie sou

gr vel was I Nil d oil the bankS of the river at low water, alt

was h'amzIed to tontormil to those CIi(litionls. Il I S O, wa

the bori'gs tle eStiates werc coreihted all alog the li

adjust the amtioutut of work both iii quantity a(nd (iality to 

obtained b1 1 y the borigs, 's a td tIhose juiaiititics shald to-day. When

tlesv cha111 ige't Wer'e illl(let, thle estimitet(s5 of 1889, which we

suIrI;I(ce ia1re rerot are tliik, feLtrr boar world Air. Alr. elI we 'dd ? AIENOCAL. PATTER'SiN. "r(''ret'ted this froi ()f to inld(icatiolts, IHave pick 15,or pa the po1r \ve flaws olod ' Wlel itot I 1th) ih Not Were' dlctuutieuit Iust lele to given soIlit at Ja.ttiart'y tlie o[' (0l'recte(l, hiave all.rcasot to this reultss ; this copied h)1t kJind 1, board , 1890." the ad Alm'. of wheni tatstatemietit the Patterson, I all stated 1 seliteutee we boritiogs the see have iiformtiotNow was atpermit pesefrom are that thie prg
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

have we not shown the boring's taken in the bed of the river, 

sand there and clay in the abutmeits ? Why shi01Ud you p

here froin a paper I wrote ill great haste, to be read at a con

I admit it is a inkstatemient; but have we not presented the b

all the data oii which our claims are based ?

Mr. PATITERSN. Now, I want to say this to you. I cal

attention to that simply for the reasOn it was commented oil h

Mr. MENOCAL. I know, sir, it has been 1roungit befor the co

Mr. PATTERSON. And what I wanted to do was to get at 

facts.

Mr. MENOCAL. Those are the real facts.

Mr. PATTERSON. If it be true, as stated in that paper, that 

thin g you struck at the bottom of the Sati Juan River is sand 

clay and then rock

1r. MENOCAL. No, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. I meant to say that if that be the fact it 

a long way toward satisfying my judgment pn 4l a very diffi

lem. and I think the Imlo'st difficult problom- 1ow, I am 11) en11n

nected with the Nicaragua Ca,1n I, and if there is anytlig a

Nicar-agua Canal scheme now that remains undemonstrated ii n

in my humble jlugmt, it is the ofticaliiy I construc

Ochoa Dam so as to retai your su minnit level. If rock cml 

at the bottom of the river, I tliik it woul be very well and I 

ions to find out.

MIr. MENOCAL. I have no assurances

Mr. STEWART. Was there a dispute about that?

Mr. PATTERSON. No, sir.

Mr. MENOCAL. Permit tile to complete what f was going t

have no assurances there is no rock at a certaii depti. Rock 

found 40 or 50 feet deep ini the river bed, ai id I 1h.1\ye oiiy go

24 or 25 feet; but eiiono'gi to satisfy me tla t for practical pu

o

construction we have nothing- but sand there. Now, that b

case, we had to devise a metliod of construction that was app

that particular site and would meet those particulnir conditio

rock -tilled dam was then proposed by me, and has since rcc

approval, I think, of all the engineers wI1 have su died tle sub

this board has arrived at the same concl usion-thIi at it 15 pr

with slig ht modifications it the method of construction, whlichi 

ters of detail; but the daim is admitted to be practicable. 

you are going to spemd $500,000 in strenlgthening the lbiut

$100),000 or $50,000 is only a natter of detail, and other cha

posed, such as having" a set of shiices to discharge the riv

construction, which I think will be a bad scheme, and is oIly 

cation of cost rlictio I methods not affi cting the pun;Icticabi l

work. The daml ('ant be built. Tliey state it can be built.

We have been told here that when this board returned from 

gua built; done. furnished they practicable, did made them.they canal it came in thy was However, Nicaragua, arrive was by to asll were the impracticable. has at obscure; company, conclusion after thse full been since thiy of conclusions' statedhey they doubts, aindmet that could Why, before left consulted inl the New an1dthe ? it not canal this Not was country York did see and committee. from from is inot hjow amdtalked feasible the with intormation believe this 4ooked invstigatthee canal lly andtl ovepinmawhit a
-1I lId I U1 i l j l 1 !J4 SU l , ) 114q I 11 I s 111 4I. I[I 

Ol's 11 u o t l),)(l 1 1 1) L '4 il ulu o ) 1 .1 !IS ! I vli 4 lt 

.\ O'A\)P dT Io,) II~\ Wd I I IIoI l i I --81.11 ",k 1 1sr 11 4 

d~r ml1I )ml)td~ III~ o I(~ , )~I I I4l, I Vpj 1 t.11 

usag~ ~~ iu I(9[ I pl us ) I ~ l lof sla Ilo 1 ( '1\ t~l 

. 1 M I 801[ lom I I l w411 J r - I Ido1 4 I 1t 1 !( "1It (II 

-I IFj II-11104 ) t I u ,\ A II :II m1 ) II l, t I d ICt (-I IwI1 4 1, it m

mrql *II~od [ I I I .1 "4t 1 ti, .)1 .IiI4! 1)I0l l I 1 JO AlA \ d1m j alp '48[. 

III I o j ll o 1iii 'ul' 1 *o pmll SumA um I I o P 11 p1 1 II MI, 

utal[ 03C I ptu 'p~ti slu uo )l1I!4u 4Uj .P'0 )tnij sl u n

OTIds u a p.Io q,))j itn Il o oj III o1111 ulo'. o .11 j Ig j) 

-1 41 8 48U00 ([ 1 'I ' 1 U[ ! U mol o! lOi ,ll x)114 J IA L) \l I i p:t 

I-! x 11 ,dl ) I m 14 tI I I p I :[ it .I IIm - I m 4 . s,)1 \ )0 I II o11, 

,I[ pK 14 1 l1 1 .I n oi I I I i i. ti 11; 11l i 1 1 41 m 1. ) II!)

O ' I puI -I d dJL 0.1 11111:, li-i J 1ds P1 .pil I -11li4l o I I sl.)IIII 111 

8aa p'11 q '1.l1,1V,,iN.bul 4) 411d 1111du)AO' ) dl t)IIX- Ul~ h)B'4dAVl 

m po. I I )(Id-Pl II1 1A) I .I' I I I l B I 1 1 o d . I I 1, l( ll1

-; '0 ) 1 dollI[ 0.b 811.[1Ik j 'di I4Uf II sV\\ I v 01v II, vlJ

lU ( 111l4Od .Il U00( I I V II I I I I.1 gl~ld o 'li lp14 p' it I 1 d4 1 1 

op04iedua q t;(,8 Xqg 'lIu0~ dI1000 JO4 lloitl )d[.O1 '84

l I II 1 11 111 J-;) I It II Ii I I I. o J. d J7o K [ I I 

11i~51d1 II 4d~loli m I1 I1 pj) IIj I!,Il d~o lt(II "um I I - VN IA. 

~U i.i~jU. I~ J 4 II II .IA(). d I~4 ',)A Ildf I oIpl d dImo x'0 110 JdII1 

41p 11 'U 8 ti 18 111 [U.) JI OI 8d! J[ Ild I olp sumi m l ut opl d l 

110u 3 u [U14 ,IOL8Ild4d .J '118[AOd P 81 C 01111 "1V ON TIV '.IJ\

%.(li dt I I .10J : tO dlolX LU pL .k4 oI I 881 1[

s141111 sl: sdl:~ "{V.A0I 8t)1U18 olp pU -t 88uu1 \IS p'1J2 o"I ( 

INIoi t III," pmr . o Jllj Iu (; ) in duo q) 4(m, l0 ueaj 

pa~lannoasta3 a ng aul paanpopouf 41,14 llljp pobgl

litsan I'll 'Ool n a ~uvl \:4 j ap 4I A~l~,~ 1 -,)11 1)[

10Spu JX q ~ .11. 1 Olutluor oltj Il poi.18 l 

)

JO) I~id~l~l~ ~)1U IIl.181. ooli, p .n 03 l-kmi 1U,11 ' so llilij 

MOI{ 1018dd~l~ dli 11011fll 'lOA )[114 dN!A AI PIIB)A\JU4N 'IM 0

*IYNVS) VAJVU1V3IN 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

paiy had the privilege of navigating the river and lake, and on

provisions of tihe concession was that the company could oily 

this privile' anid have the right of Ilavi0gatiing the lake atd 

somle management with this individual, and le set tip his p

'8()IJ00 for his boats, his grIant, storehouses, and everything e

the compaiiy had at List to pay it.

rlie C(AIIZMAN. What company bought that; was it the C

tion Compmay or the Maritime Cana C ompamy?

Mr. MENO4AL. You are asking me in regard to matters to 

paid very little atteiition.

The C iAXImAN. Well, I will ask that in a different way. I

lishinig the faict that the expellditure of 4,000,000 had been m

yon iIclilde in that whatever sum, '300,000 or $100,000, which w

by the Coustruction Company?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir.

'h.( CHAINMAN. That was an asset whichlC belono'ed to the Coi struction Coipay, wiiias it not, and not to the Maritime Co1mny ?

Mr. i\IENOCAL. That is a pjint that I am not prepared o 

Ay impression of tiht alrranlgIemciit was tlis: The Constructio

pany piid *for everything, and at the end of a certain time, c

ioith or say six months, a bili was presenited to the M ariie 

p1aniy for the vAlue of the work done or the expen( it ures iiiade, 

Atari I ine Comupaiiy would tlien pay for these expei(litires b

arra IIgCeimnt-in securities, borln s, stocks, etc. Con seq uel tly, f

moment the secu cities were turned over to the Cnistruction C

the plant and whatever work had I been done and paid for beca

property of the Maritime Canal Company. Have I expressed 

clearly ?

The CnAnzixAN. Yes, sir. Now, do you understand that th

time Company is the owner of that franchise?

Mr. AIl"N oCA. Yes, sir.

The 'hAI1ZLAN. For the navigation of the river?

Mr. MENOC.AL. That is my understaiiding.

The CH1AI1VIAN. Did you not state, when you were before t

inittee during the last Congress, that the franchise was owned 

Constriictioii Coipai y?

MAr. MAENOCAL. Well, I have explained now that the Cons

Company bought all the plmit and paid for and (1id all the wo

by some arraingement which the Constructioi Company had w

Aariti me ComipanIly, the Construction Company was at some tim

I could not tell yon-as I said before, I haid nothing to do w

financial affairs of the company and I do not know that I h

here right what I am to saving-but say I know that some arran u gEinent of that kind was made by which the Maritime Compa

the Constiruetion Comipaly the expenditures made for the cons

of were the made, canal everything pertaining to the canal, and these pa

canialhise'! The Mr. The Mr. The Mr. The not arrangements MENOCAL. MAENOCAL. MENOCAL. CHAIUMAN. CHAUXIIAN. CHAIR-MAN. CIJAIM3AN. say, I think, That No, As of What In Did the I by sir; what say, is not not company. securities. do just I you proportion? had youI you mean what absolutely negotiate negotiate mean bonds I Now, say by this I for and nothing securities; what do the transaction stock. nothe purchase know. to proportion do bonds with ? of or th
NICARAGUA CANAL.

M. Al ENOCAL. Y\s; if you refer

The 'II A II AN. DO you not know the terms of payment

Mr. :IENOCAL. It y I refer to the franchise the compan

frot Nic;1Wr:1.a1I8, I lego'tiated that.

The C'iI n MAN. I dO 11ot mean 'hiat, but I mean the fran

to iavigate the San Juan and the lake?

Al. AlENICAL. No, Sir1; I 111d ibsOlutely nothing to do wi

I never even iie& 'i tated for a barrel of cement For tie,. comp

The C(IIA IR1IAN. III i8tablishliig' 11e Fact to the satisfaC

uoiinliittee appoiited by thle ( Govervinient of Nicara gtia tha

had been expe1Ided by tlle company, (id you include the p

Mbouit -*775,000 of a certain dredging p1 mit, etc., which 

at Colml?

)IF. MENOCAAL. I reilember distinctly that a portion of 

ing phm ft wa"s included; wh~ethecr it \\"s .111 or Onl1y part, of 

sily, as I do ot leielbiher. It is a long tiie O i bl, I thin

pOrtion of that 'Im111nd tileics1 o its trWiaspiOrt 8tioll to 

was a part of the expenses whlicII Vere incided in mak

millolint.

The CIIAIRMAN. Now, will yoli state whVJicl coilpaily purl

plat?

MIr. ME)NOCAL. No, sir; I could iot tell you.

The , (A I DIAN. Was it thle ( Coiistvuction C'onmpany or th

cOmpall*y I?

Al . M1EN'ocA L. 1 11 ve to beg yOur I 81rdm1, is I do iot kmo

about it. There ave others better il i 6rle(I on thit subject 

Mir. Alillr\1, who was thlen president of the comiparIy; an d 

sOecety ot tie comimpiy, and ot hers. I Lid netlhiing to do 

Tht, (11nAIRin MAN. Ill establishino- the fact that there was 

ture of L,000, 000 iIde during tile year did you incilide 

5,0 IoP.o0, or l hmit that, for a drI,.(g' pur llased ill GLasgOw

Mr. MENOCAL. There may have been. I do not reiieimeb

The (HAIIdAN. Were yOui a party to the report that w

the Niaragina( Governeiit as to these expenditures?

r. AIEN( )C AL. No ), sir.

T111 (HARMAN. You did Ilot Sigil the report ?

Air. MEN(CAL. NO, sir. I have no copy Of the report w

I onlv reielmlber the cirvcuinstaice that these counmissioners 

11d the bOOik5 Were Ope to then.

The (' AI RIMAN. DO -01U remi ember the 11111es of th1osc e)1 

Mr. MENOCAL. I rei iemnier two of them. 0ie of th n w

Antonio Roman and the other was Maximilian Soiinersteril.

The c(<HAIRAIAN. I IaVe you CVer seen the report Imiade b

of those ientiemenl to the Nicaraguon:1i Government?

verified Or from purchased did Nicaragua. ,ave The Al TAllr. AInt he r. buy theheim. AlEN AEN'AL. CHAIRMAN. AIENOCAL. that (i1 by items, a AlIAN. in your dr'elge >CAL. dredge GIasgowid snrigiatuare? No, No. I wN So If have tihe in as siriV; t included tIhat here Giasgow, evel books ; a ii I nto was have impre received ad were report in a1 aId iiot. othing tiose sijnIi-in Ope item atthat made 10 amoints, Greyt of to about this fi-ct, do t( hem) by with vil dreiIge them I and $ ;105,000 nn ktow-ththe yOu they was repnevst
VICAb'A( UA CANAL. 

The CHAIRuMAN. It was sent to Australia, was it not?

Mr. M ENOCAL. 1 (10 1ot know, sir. I know a dl'Cd(ge was pi

in Glasgow. and that this dred ge, the tirst one built, was sun

coast of England, but whether it was sunk oi its way from Gla

Greytown, or to Australia, I do not kImm, is I had nothing to 

it; but I know the dredg-e was sunk at sea.

The CHAIRMAN. Was it not sunk at sea off the English coa

way to Australia?

Mr. MENOCAL. I do 1ot. klow. I have n idea. I kil w it w

I know that fact; at least I have been told so. I kniow it as yo

know from hearing me tell you. I know another one was ord

p u-c adsed

The 'HAIRMAN. Was it ever i'eceived 

Mr. M ENOCAL. It was ordered, an1d I iiiderst a d it was so

wards without havIng been sent to Nicaragua, because the w

stI pped before tJie dredg'e was broti-ut over.

The CHAIRMAN. You are iiot alble to say whether that 

expenditure was inched in tile '2,0040000 of their alleged 

ture made during the first year!

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir; I could not make any statement in i

t hat.

T he CHAIRMAN. Do you remember at, what the work-whei 

of w\ork I mean excavations inl tile canml or excavations in the h

whi at wAas the estimate of that Comm111 iss5io51?

Mr. AIl ENoCAL. No, sir; I do in (t.

The CfIurMAN. Iid you hurnish the Comiimission with any 

or suns representing this class of work which had been done ?

.iXl'. ENOCAL. M'. ChairaiM11, the CoIn mission 0, it I reiile iii

rectly, did not estimate the value of the work. They took the 

itires whici had beeni actually imide. The terims of the co

were that the Canal ( Coipa ny bad to actually expend $2,000.00

first year, aii the coin ni lssion f m Nicairag-ua had nothing to do with

the actual valiie of the wNork which had beien performed.

Tlhe CuxAw'IAN. Now, it was your miissLion there, as a represe

of the Canal Company, to show to those gentlemen what expen

had been nmde'j?

Mr. AIENOCAL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you represented the company in doing 

Mr. AMENOCAL. I did.

Tihe CHAIRwMAN. Now, what amount did you represent to th

been expenled foi this class of work of which I have spoken ?

Mr. MENOCAL. Mr. Chairmian, I did not keep those doc

What I did there was to open to these gentlemen the books wh

kept in Greytown, and to give themt certain memoranda which 

from New York-extracts from the books in New York, I 

That you had expenditures, the which expenditures The Mr. The Mr. The Canal now. been is IMENOCAL. MENOCAL. CIIAIRIMAN. CHAIRMAN. were CHAiUDIAN. all Company made I made did made or inl expenditures did I by Yes, connection When And Wilibout by gavend thyou the sir. yon them just Maritime you explain Construction reference gaves of with represented the securities, they the Canal to figurest. to them figures were Companyl the Company? which to boiids, received. whether fact to them them of were o whether that stocks? those as (riven I could. expeexpewetilt
20 NIRA1RAGUA CANAL.

Ar. Al EN:oCA L. Well, you are a little mixed there; I do iio

to :nisw cr that question. All expenditures were Iumade by th

I i (' maIny, a 1 afterwards p1id for by tile Maritime Co

what tile arno'gaiiemnen bet veen the COInlpalies vas I kno

abImut. When tile Commission waIS appointed certailI iiifIrm

w

setll t1.o 1L,-1 me to he L1i1d bifore tIemI, III I the books il

\ ere (TPle 14) them. They spent several days il examiiiniLg 

\\ith the bookkeepers, md ol lin them they 2ot their iotes. 

I kn1w about it. I wv as 11 part of tilie Con iissiol.

The C(IAiwuAAN. You were a niellher of both companies 

Mlr. Al EN2NOCAL. No, sir; I was an enlgi elier of' tile Constru

ThIIv Ci I It MA N. Of I Ithe Cm )Istrc1tiolI CoiIIpa I Iy

A h'. A I VN( W \L. YeS, sir.

The ( 'I1 A I U MAN. paee y lilot a stockholder or all olf

comti pallies 

Alr .A1 N m. I wvia stocid hfldel to soiii exteNit ; I hadi 

"0 slharie's ld' til Alaritiile ('Olpl1 y IS stock, vhichi I have 

was Ilt all 4PliiaU of the i)hritimiie CmIipany at alI, and I 

to I14) within the hi1anciAl afairs (P1 either of the tw\4P com p)liiles

The CH AIU MAN. W Cere yMIf t1 t conlvesa ut w ith tile con

iU4ng between those tvo coi allies ?

Air. Al LN AL. I never saw theii.

Ihle 4 Al IAIAN. Well, Volt Kinew ill (eneral teuIms what co

beel Imade!

Air. AlE No('AL. I kitew contracts 1ld been ilmde, but I Iieve

AlY vonllectimn vith this eiltlerprise, Alr. Chaina, Is etir

siMlI. miud I iate a sim.ill interest pecuniarily.

The C l IAN. I ail iInt purshiihi that lite, liowever, 10

purpose thlanI to elueillate fromut \l, if I call, the tact that y

the chai cter o, tile Imiaia''ieniit between the two compani

Mur. AiEllCNocAL. I itever saiw the cOltract. I only knew w

staled to the comlilitice fianklv, that so lar as I know, thes

inVolvedl a certain aituement by vlich tile Constriution 

was to be ipad il \lit I call securities, boith IdS 11141 

htiw 1iiiich. anlid in what proportion, ill wvhat amoluits, aidl a

I (h) not khmvw. I never inivestif'ated it or bother I uImyself 

I hld1 within to d) with such affairs.

The ('ii .x A N. I)o yol inot klow 4ecierally that there wa

by which the Maritilie Comipanyv was to turn (iver to the C

COmipli v all ot its assets, noth ioiids ad stock ?

Air. Ah1xoiL. I could imt aIswer that 11utestioni positiv

lhave mi imipreSioll tHIt it was lot all the assets. I hm 

dh) nmt kuiuv. I lever saw the cl(itiract, but I haVe the imipres

certain '111iillt wa'Is to Ile retailled by thie Alarit ilie comip'h

1111ch camml, shiares 11111h in wliliv The Ali'. existenice CpIlflalty .1E 1 it ( started k (pI (11) 1d1 was,. iNOCAL. am1l 11.000 11 they Ii at > the h AN. the There lmv raised N4), each, states tiutie. Yolu .5)0 sir; 1mn wvas m1d a aI(1d Ilmde of iii certain I .I four .1- somI did Iiale ni or so :,0(00 live Ias5s argua lie ]tll. they t1 tlde sum friends, lle.eotiations cmitrilmted, slates raised The11, of a1d iieotiatiois ot moyey. S,000 who Ala-itiline 'osti this were weTV betweii em-1h Rica? amtlimlit 1 4 will For divide(interesComhu'any one an tle
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

With this sum of $300,000 I was requested to go to Nicaragu

a concession and to Costa Rica afterwards.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you procure the concession for the 

$3001000?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What more were they to get?

Mr. MENOCAL. What, sir?

The CHAIRMAN. What in addition to the $*300,000 were yo

those two States for the concession?

Mr. MENOCAL. I only gave the Government of Nicaragua 

Later on I paid the Government of Nicaragua $50,000 for th

way between the lake and the Pacific, which was provided 

concession. One of the conditions of the coicession was to 

that the company, when organized, and after work was comme

to pay to the Government of Nicaragua $50,000 for the righ

between the lake and the Pacific.

The CHIAIRmAN. Were those two sums, $100,000 and $50

total consideration to be paid to Nicarag'ua?

Mr. MENOCAL. That is all I paid.

The CIAirMAN. Was there anything reserved-were yo

anything more?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir; not by the terms of the concession

a certain amount of stock.

The CHAIRMAN. What was that?

Mr. MENOCAL. Six per cent.

The CHAIRMAN. Was that agreement made at the time of 

the concession?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; those were the conditions of the co

that the company would turn over to the Government of N

6 per cent of its stock and to Costa Rica 11 per cent, if I r

right.

The CHAIRMAN. Was that stock ever delivered?

Mr. MENOCAL. Well, I have to say about that that I do not 

The CHAIRMAN. You have never delivered it'?

Mr. MENOCAL. I never delivered it personally.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any knowledge upon the subject 

bles you to form an opinion ?

Mr. MENOCAL. Only an opinion. I am not prepared to s

that it was delivered, but I have an opinion formed that the s

sent to Nicaragua to the agent of the company to be deliver

Government of Nicaragua, but what became of it, whethe

actually delivered, or where it is, I do not know; but I have th

sion from conversations that I heard in the offices in New Y

also what the agemit himself told me, that this stock had bee

him to be delivered to the Government of Nicaragua.

between within the expenditures gua, lakeThe Mr. The Mr. The time included? was MENOCAL. MENOCAL. CHAIRMAN. CHAIRMAN. CHAIRMAN. N those 1889 this CQ-1. the two agent made item and years, I That1890. of Do On Do think by remained expeniture you the you thebut mtust So.company remember remember I occasion could have in the not for beeni, to country, when when what the tell these sir, you navigation amount? you that comnissioiers I between exactly should were was? of represethe 1889 suppothe dateoa
- NICARAGUA CANAL.

Alr. IENo CAL. No, sir; I think that a sum of money w

in the exipeIditures for this purchase.

Thle il A Xl A. Wliat was the amount paid there for tha

M1'. Al ENOCA L. I had iiot1inigi' to do with that negotiation 

not know that I have aiy right to say here how iuch it 

believe, for what my information is worth, it was t300,0

noth1i112, to d(1 witl it.

Tile CIA I HXlAN. Do you know who negotiated the contra

Alr. Tecoipany INAL. inl New York. I could not m

mies of' aiylody. I was not here at the time; I was in 

Those are matters in which I never concerned myself.

Thie (A AN. At the timle you were procuring tis conc

Nic(iia a W th Ile Cat that there Nwa s a grant il perp)etl ity-au exclusive gr"Init aICady miiade to parties to navigate the river and la

to yoUm

All'. )l ENOCAL. Not in perpetuity.

T1he C(IIAlw'uAN. It was not iin perpetuity?

Mr. AIENOCAL. No, sir.

The (' CAi1mAN. For whalt period?

Alr. AlENOCAL. I think the gentlemian who had the gran

or live moro years to rui, and when the company attemp

steam i1s M fighters, etc., inl tie river lie protested. T

miiet of, Nicar'alga uI stained him inl his chaimi that no one h

to lmviigate tile waters of the lake or river but liimself until 

vx1 pi 1ed. If you consult the concession, you will see there a 

ti the ef'fect that at the expiration of his privilege the Can

w oUl4 I have t ie p of navigating all the water's of 

nlot only I Iavigation, but control. The Goverinments of Nicaragiua and

Co Sta Rica gaive the compajIy the rigit to flood public 

st rca lws, divert streams, raise the lake, to take possession of 

aii 6) bild thIat canal as they wa uted it. The whole count

over h) the company with the only iplrovision that suich In

as are dIa nIed )y the w4rks of t e com any shiall be paid 

actual value. That is the only restriction, but the cmiIp

rigiht t go oH and flood tile wwl e count ry if nlecessm-y.

Al r. STjwA 'I'. T Ilave you amy interest pecuiia iily, mr otherwise than

pr fe'ssioal inter-est, in the oil a pr oiojoe t at tile p reseit tim

i1lr. AlEN4'AL. I Iave soie i interest il the company.

Al. STEWARiT. To any large extcut?

Allr. Al F] N(AL. No, sir ; very little. These are private a fa

rept e her ie ic that I Ihave all interest, and I always have\e fi ad. I

was (me of thIe first proinote's WNo obtaihied the concessi

fa it If ill (Ile e 't rrise as being a great work, and ily only 

to see it ciaImpleted. If I had a million dollars to-day, 1 W4 )ld

ceit of it ill it.

sil cSe 1114 p'inlt "an Greytmvwn AIr. Al Ai Alr. Air. 1e, r. r. Juan wason1 iten, I STvA Al -1EIl lENNETT. would ENNIETT. lNOCAL. the NOCAL. aterwars River I-ow? and lake iT. put tlerehOre and That to Is Aly They It i is whIlat ill the Lake assu only only it. lake h:,d stream would med point object Nicaragua. small and thew by l on right river navigable was ot tile bcause the conlt Caa toto navigationi ri (onir ver? show navigate ol I youri am from a.iny yolur a begra judgmiientcoimupaniy Fort all pool' interesi the frAomii ma8an wI
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. MENOCAL. Not in the dry seasoii.

Mr. BENNETT. In the wet season is it iiavigable?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; it is fromii six to eight months a year

eit upoin the rai fall, by stern-wheel steamners, which gener

about 3 feet. They go as fai as Castilio in the rainy season 

any transfer, and at Castilio they transfer to another river 

and oIi the lake to another steamer; so eveni inl tie ra1iy seas

the river is high, two transfers are necessary-one at Cas

one at the lake.

Mr. BENNETT. Is there water communication between the 

the Pacific here?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir.

Mr. IIENNETT. That is not navigable?

Mr. iIENOCAL. No, sir.

Mr. BENNETT. These stream1s are not inavigable?

Mr. IMENOCAL. No, sir; lever have beell.

Mr. CORLISS. How large is that little body of water indicat

western side there?

Mr. MENOCAL. It contains 4,050 acres in area.

Mr. BENNETT. It is nmore ill the niatIire Of a swvamlp ?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir; it is a very fertile, beautiful valley; 

no swamp there.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I want to ask a Few questions Dow. I w

to have the sense of the c committee abiot tiis, whether tie

like to have fromI Mr. Menocal a detailed history of the lin

there, and take the whole siub ject up in its order as to what h

while there, iii detail, and a history of these siurveys and exam

from top to bottom. If it is essential, in t lie opinion of the co

why of course Mr. Menocal stands ready liere to cover th

ground, every foot of it, ron (eytown l lrbor to the lake, 

the lake to Brito, if that is tloiig'ht to be advisable by the c

That is a matter which occurred to tie the other- evernlig in 

to him.

The CHAIRMAN. What good will it do?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. 1 do not kinOw what, I am sure.

Mr. JOY. I will state that at oie oi the meetisllo of the 'Su

tee at which you were not present, anid\ which took l)lae at my house,

that matter was g)-one into with somile (2 1'e, and it is eimblIdlied 

written report, which of course has nOt beci corrected by Li

Menocal, because he has not been here, hbiit it tan be used 

the consumption ol time. I do not kniow it will cover the whol

but it was taken down and--

Mr. MEN CAL. I have surveyed the lower route, the tipp

the west side, and run lilies myself personally. I have run t

oil the west side and have miade surveys of the river and hav

the ranmade detail to conform seen Mr. Colonel Mr. 1891 line a the preliminary at STEWART. MENOCAL. MENOCAL. surveys 1 along with the almost estimate LUDLOW. time. thir the of lived ('oloiiel If the line of estimates. banks do I that the oil made streams inot 1885 that of statement board. Ludlow see no the grotln(l. from of Will how such river the said The Ochoa we you statement. was Sail as estimate you could explain made far Jl torevised a Greytown, as do illt (Greytown; that'? of that is in the incorrect, your 1876, when board and estanhfI 
324 NICARAGUA CANAL.

this revised estimate was made before the board's report 

public.

('0olon LUDL( LW. Coloceil Ludlow has made no estimate,if you lease.

Mr. PA'i"FERS )N. I ullderstiaid there have beeln two estim

by Air. Alenocal, and that lie has revised ill somie respects th

mate lie m11ade, and I have been confused a little bit ini this w

Mr. Al iller ill is very lucid discussion of this imatter based h

up1)01 the first or the second estimate.

M r. MENOCAL. If tlie colillittee will allow me, I would 

t few words iin regard to that. The estimate has been rev

tumes.

Tie CHAIRMAN. (ive the dates of the three.

Al r. AlENOCAL. First ill 1889, when the original surveys 

a(14 the boriings had inot been conipleted. That lmt s not be

ad 1d o(s not appear iin the' records. Then inl 1890, after t

W\ere 1madoe, a revISion wa1S ilade and the estimate which I 

before ill 1 1) was noted "1 corrected to that dite." Since th

have made very extensive and very valuable examinations 

giiia ill connection with the sites of locks, cmbanikmienits, a

wMrk which is necessary to perfect and complete the plans o

the workinv drawings yOu ay say, and these examiination

ried on 1iip to the tine when work was stopped. The last m

by the comipany was to make dianioitd-drill borings at the s

lr. SMr wA r. Excuse me one momtient ; I want to make 

nent fuller. Were your later estimates controlled by the e

th e bolrd ?

Mir. MENOCAL. The estimates of the board had not been 

that time.

Alr. PATTERSWN. Wliat is the date of your last estimate?

Mr. MENOCAL. I think it is July, 1895. 1 will coie to 

will allow ime -to proceed inl the order in which the matter 

1)1 ace.

Al1. PAT''TI1ERsoN. Very well.

Mr. MENOCAL. As I stated, we I1lade extensive examinat

site of the enibaiinents and the (aLiis, and made d ecep wr

Tol D)am, and made nlumerolls bolings at the site of the thr

tile east side, mid we prepared ourselves to mIake the filial 

The 'stijul ates, which lad been i in al)e up to thi at tine, July

beeii based only on the information we 1ad ill) to the (la

ates, ,,d est tie last estimate .miiade in 185. is 1blased on the data that

1 el accubeen mIlluatedl up to tlhat tine. Now, iii coiinection 

it would be well for m1le to refer to the reiwrks which hav

(quently ,imndle here-th at the comI pany have been 1tia able to pre

bmila-r detailed drawings of all the works proposed. That i

Thiat dei1aid li wo ilrmiiation, ceediig tO)he you imiatel ad The rk aite, esti been nmy sta was y. estimates mat a1d with temient diawing)*s. call gathered. 6) You es as but be this them. tor the haVe is c1 in were correct. i nt hwlks work ivestig.a1tiollN othlerS, rae They the They A made, ted lock and is ftbi Imlostly were We ountation, not tr. (ails is as a werehen en1oli to I to very In all said, were be be Im not excavation side thesiniple tile ost imade on based to yet workalls, fiial the cases satisfy inl tling.r when on in a stopped drawing's, except and we position ili prelimiinarie; to all t4atm had gates. calculthe lockill and the to on No
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the principal parts, and any practical engineer when he 

ground on which he is to build his work can come within a 

p

(eeltage of what it is going to cost and what amount of work 

(lo. Tile estimated cost is a question of opinion and may dif

bectweeii eiigineers and(l contractors. Tliese workiii (irawilnlg

yet made, and wlen this board applied for tliem they were to

we did iiot have them. A number of thiem had beeii commii

not advanced sufficiently to enable mle to present th em 4 or th

of this board, as they were not yet perfectel.

Now, I am going to refer here to an instance to show yot 

tical eiin)eers geiierally proceed in a matter oftmt kind. 

to reer to the construction of tile elnormiolls bridgL~e that is 

built over the East River in New York, muh larger thtam th

brid ge, with a larger span, wider anid much hielNv-ier, the wh

ture resting onl two piers. Eiiiniienit ein0]eers lmve male 

that bridge an1d estimated the cost of it. Thi ese plans allo 

have been approved by the ioard( of public works of the 

Tihe ci ties have agreed to build this 1ridge on these plals :1( 

a-l a large sum of timoiey has already been s1 iit on the rig

and prelpal'atory work. Work you may say 118s beeii colime

ali eninient engineer 1iwa beeii p ut in chiarg'e of it. O( nly tii

ago arrangemeiits were made and borings weie commenced a

of these piers; am as to final borings, to ascertaim at wli at 

rock led ge lies onl which the piers aie to rest, m1p to the mi(

week only one had been sunk to the depth of 70 feet below h

mark, where they think a solid ledg'e of rock will be londil. T

only possible way to do work of that kind, and oie would 

ein"'beer if he does not change his plan if he sees an opportiu

so to advatage.

Mr. D)O(LITTLE. To the advantage of the work?

Mr. MENOCAL. Certaily. I e would be a pIor engineer 

not sleep over his plans, exerting his mind on the best metliod 

come the difliculties constantly arising in works of this kind

ing the night soiiietiin my occur to lim as to Ihow best 

that, or the other, and it is his duty to do it. Wliat eniginieer h

takeii a work of that kind that has not intro(luced chaitgcs 

would like to see one. You can desioii a bridge that res

rocky bluffs, aiid of course designi at the start braces and 

biaces aid upper and lower cords, etc.-in fact, every part of 

ture-but that is a fixed piece of mechanical work whi1ci you 

amid work out in detail beforehand mid detinitely. But when 

to deal with the excavation of rivers, swamps, anud hills m1d d

coniected with b)ihldhg dams, locks, etc., which an engiled' 

foresee exactly in all and every detail, he would be a very poo

if lie does not chanig'e his plans whien he call do So to the 0 

the work. Very well; that is what I have done and whiat 

agam11. plan. theiso (1:111, they proposed, mate This brng site board had but with It phan of itgreat is a but as here, the sufficient merely prelimiiiary presented the that dam. difficulties because plan a is approximation sketch It their of here study. has they the inas made business, no estimating O(choa were my value It when plan may toldDam, for not whatever. of we it be for a the and was ours. lock,had very that Ochioa the not not true, aftrdam If It a yet board Danm theyfilial wasas we a4made thy call is had notgivphiota
326 NICARAGUA CANAL.

foundation for that lock, as shown by numerous borings-w

olig'it to.

Al r. PA TTE N. hIl1ere s just one question ill that connec

desire to ask y u. N41 ieariid Sen ato r Miller's statement 

(mlit tee yesterday, I auppose, 8an a good(l deal was said a

(1iti81 tlit were subiitted here by ir. Treat!

l r. MkN C~A L. Yes, sir.

Al r. I A''TTuS<N. A1d then about estimates made and co

by Mir. 1 )onailsoni, an l E ish engineer?

AlV. AiENOCAL. Y.'S, si; I ied that.

Allr. PATTES()N. NOW, w'as the proposition Aubmitted by 

Nised uipin tile estimai8te o 189 )r t ie estiiato of 1890?

Air. Al EINOCAL. Y\t 41 ali see by the (late of the proposition that it

was 111 ade in file estim1a te of 1890.

Air. PATTEIsoN. And Air. Donaldson made his estimate o

basis'?

Air. IMENOCAL. Certainly; the d18te will show that. There 

question which 11s been hrH)iuhit Iii) here, ind a great dea

said( about it. on1 thit is 1bout the iIranilic (li and the r

is said abomt the hiyirlic data we 1had not enough. They 

trying( to mtiake iie appea.r ill a fA1s1e 1iL(lt betfor(thiis conunitte

Iia8d stated before that we hi4d information enough to ena

'Irrive at c('l ci sions as to the (1'fect w1ich the t141W of the s

the rainfall w lal hi iave on the work wiich we had proposed 

gua. iNow, You will find ill iy written statement, that this 

data, to be of any v ale, wOU4il have to be observed for a lo

of years. The riinfiill 4f' 4(ne, two, three, or four years is 1

give very inch lig t)ht. ie o)servaition of years may be t

by the results obtained ill the last year.

Tlhiere :ire only two ti i wes have to consider in this ease

mum and aniaximtininn fiw (t the river. We know sufficiently 

the minimnu tlbw is. Thit is what will guide 11s ill deterim

much water we cm use to wmrk tie cnial ill the dry season

that is very lillucl ill 414)ubt, 1ecai(se when we raise the Ocho

increase the flooded ar a and e8nt e a lanrer reserv4iir we 

larer lake to dr-aw f i. No engrincer has ever questioned 

sition that we ha v wV Wtc8r e(nogh111 i in tis iim elnse ilake fl4.,700 

miles and the additional lake created by the 1100ooded area to 

can al. Tlien as to the iiaxiini, I Iihave ascertained that 

has beenl possible to 414) so. Thiere has been only one lirg

INicaragua while I hiave been there tiat I have been able 

a(nd talit was in 1889. It was (eatinged not by myself, but by 

anit engineers, andl it was well anid AccurAtely done. Wh

that gauging, I kn1w tile river nises con sileralbly more. 

inlications that it rises 1114re than shown by that gauging. 

reason I hiave tiken the res ult (Wf ti at lZaugin g andl increas

per waIters. vio414 cubic maxiiuuni inevitable. problem here. has Now, cent. beenfin, feet Itiis which think( d represented per 'Thlenl flnctua whi question il we second it ('IIchl il cnn that tion ma,1)y envi114 pro)o(rtionino, be of we am1114oun of lhereiave 414oe n'4' controllin 4 have fet as to; inside will an (lispose p tliat over r weirs enormous differ, ividIcd g is ithe weir 2 I ofto feet. 61- and river ft ini say, crest, the r rise it 1,20,000 tle Now, d4ischarg'e and is that of a rainy useless fluctuationlake, 21 the instead cibic feet rise seasof (W to of
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Machuca Rapids, and at other places of 12, 14, and 15 feet. 

be. What does it show? That water always rises suddenl

heavy rainfall or even after a moderate raiiitall at the rapids. '

contraction of the channel where that elevation was taken in 

where the width of the river is less than half the average. T

sl ream coming into the river San Juan at that very point at rig

to it, not a very large stream, but a small torrent, that comes 

very high mountains, and there is also an islaiid in the cente

narroW goroe, and (onIsequIeUtly an acciumi lationl takes Iplace th

is inevitable. Sacli an accumulation takes place at the fo

rapids. At the head of the same rapids the rise probably w

feet, and there is a series of rapids from Toro to Machuca, w

river can not assume any regular regimen. It is changing the

time on account of the rapids, but:take it above the Toro Rapi

the river has an even inclination, uniform banks, with eveii 

and a regular regimen, and there you will find that the river 

rise more than we have stated, or very little more. In tha

the river is chan ving 1 constantly, and nobody can say Inow high or

how low it will be from (lay to day, but it certainly can not r

or 20 feet, because in such a case the river would be running 

toward the lake. You get the river to rise above 8 or 9 fe

would run back to the lake instead of running dowil.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Are you through with that?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I wish yon would state to the committee 

was you becaIme an officer of the Government, in what year?

-Mr. MENOCAL. In 1872 I was employed by the Covernmen

mence the surveys. I was commissioned as an officer of the 

ment on the 25th of July, 1874.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Will you state to this committee what w

have had charge of since that time?

iilr. MENOCAL. I have been making all the explorations in t

try to develop anid design this canal -route, and up to the tim

this route no eIgineer had ever proposed a canal there exce

lowing the bank of the river.

Mr. D)OLITTLE. B~ut I am asking you now about what Go

work you have done?

A.Ir. MENOCAL. That was a part of Government work. Whe

that survey of 1885 I was working for the Government. Whe

the survey of the west coast of the lake I was under orders of 

ernment. I also made surveys for the Panama Canal as chief 

as an officer of the Navy in charge of the explorations. I wa

to the Paris Congress where the question as to which was 

route for the canal across the isthmus was considered; I was s

as one of the commissioners for the United States Government. 

all the time in which I have not been in Nicaragua I have been 

engaged struction eD ment, before occupied 1 I nga ws designed Mr. MrgTd a given D1)OLITTLE. 11 he position EN for in by of was and )CAL. works leave dry Mr.eight ordered built which (locks, Endicott? For of here years in absence myself, seven to what Mr. piers, donethat as Endicott or year consulting and to and under duty. eight go inwere the to years addition the holds Nicaragua guli you engineer Navy previous shops to-day. in to Department the those to at in to take I same Washin the held his duties thedetaiNavy posithagtoin pI 
32 NICARAGUA CANAL.

chief engineer of this canal company, I requested to be det

that duty, mnd Mr. Eidicott was then ordered to take the p

I had occupied for seven or eight years. Since then I have 

stantly at work. I have been or(lered by the (Government to 

boards to solve difficult q uestions of engineering. I have 

good many important works for the Navy Departmnent which 

carried out, and I have now fourteen or fifteen contracts to lo

building docks, dry docks, etc, at the navy-yard, New York

Mr. STEWART. What time did Davis go to Nicaragua?

Mr. i\ENOCAL. f e was first employed by me to go to N

employed theiui end to goback of 1887. there in 188), Then, again, - I think.

Mr. STEWVART. You made surveyfiirs, and boring's too?

Mr. iMEN OCAL. Yes, sir; Mr. Davis was one of the late 

started the surveys in 1872, and Mr. Davis did not go to 

for the first time until 1887.

Mr. COPLIss. You spoke of the bridge which is to be bu

York.

Mr. TMENOCAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. CoZ 1s8S. W\\as that project undertaken by those cit

ioney appropria ted upon ostiiiiates alone, or were detail plan

upon which

Mr. iIElNOC AL. Well, there were preliminary plans for 

structure anid piers. The superstructure may remain as i

nahly (lesi gnied; but he pi iins for. the piers for the support o

superstructure, of course, will not be made until boring's 

made, and 1 hiat is being done now, and the first one was sun

week to a1 depit of 70 feet.

Mr. COuSS. Was not the character of the earth anld rock 

in the locality ?

Mr. !i\I ENOCAL. It was estimfated approxiimiately. They 

boriniges made with an auger and found something they th

rock. and they made their calculations accordingly, and the

increased the estimiates by a Large percentage to provide 

gelicies. Eut the fact remains that after this work had beei

and plans completed for the superstructure, and actual 

mneed, they are iiow sinking rock-drill )4rinii gs to de

depth of the rock ledge. I think Mr. Bennett, froin Brook

that very well, anld one can see every day in the Brookly

what depth they are reaching. rlThey went down so man

passed rock and struck clay, and then rock again, until th

rock which they believed to be a rock ledge 70 feet below 

mark.

Mr. CozRLIS. Do you know of work that has been und

private enterprise involving so large a sum of money withou

plans you rIes01) Imienced. ill within for added reced information M1. detail by h ave before a 25 a i why percentage ENO(CAL. it certain to per a I to)ut over building satisfy Ilie you 20 ceiit aI limit per iivestment what should That exaMioil frtheiml cent, of tlie or c)tingel in we iscost, a ation not that origiiial for work had generally of and the prepare is the capital before, that cies,generally reason then estimates, work the is as inknuownI allnd in conicentrated, I that is case, haveit details made practical the i and we done excpt, methods quantities by have in before engieer

in the and when this of gainlasof woceaca
NTCARAGUA CANAL. 

of the kind we have to do in Nicaragunia have beeii so greatly 

in connection with the excavation on the Clicago DIinag'e 

other works of a similar kind, that it would be almost imtiprop

say, for an engineer to repeat or to adipt the same prices 

sufficient six or seven years ag0o. If au enII ieer thotglh 

per cubic yard for rock excavationi was a Iair price ten year

he ought to know thiat the metlhod whi 1ave Ibee inVe

and put in successfil operation wild einalle him t) ium Ii

iiiates ill proportion to the advances which have been im

science of eiiieerig.

Mr. CORLIss. What is the total iiioitiit of' your i 

entire project?

Mr. MENOCAL. I tiliilk tile last estimate, with 2( per eei it al

to some $69,000,000 or $70,000,000.

Mr. PATTE1 SON. Aid is ii rornd figiires . 740,0001000?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; about that.

Mr. CORLiss. That is on a plan of a canal witli oily,\ 70 fe

at the locks?

Mr. MENOCAL. Seventy feet at the owcks,. tiid the whole c

feet in the earth sections, 100 in the rock sectiopls, atid 125 in

and 150 feet in the lake.

Mr. CORLJs. I Iave you made any estimates of the cost a

su oggested of 90 feet?

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir. It is very easy, it is a coiiiparal

sum of niey, which will be more tian covered by the 20 per 

to the cost itself. It is a Nery Sillall 111 m)iut ill proportioll

think it would be more than 10 per cent, or soietlihig of th

the estimated cost of the locks.

Mr. PATTERSON. Now, tie board of com1mis,sioiers a1) poin

President have iade siggletiolis in reorard to various cila

they think oig ht to be imide in the geini l' plin of tlhe con1

this canal. For instance, tIhtat the o ck s olP1uht to b e 1 Ia roger, 

river ought to be deeper anld wider, that the channel cut 

lake ought to be wider, mnd various other claigt'res wIlichi 

readily suggested to your inlld tian mine. Ifave ymu imtade 

lations now based upon those preiIises as to what will be 

the canal I

Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir,; I have nlot. I suppothe calu

the board are correct. I have trelted tillS 4 qiest t )iol of chags 

original paper, and as I have stated I believe the comllpittati

board to be correct.

Mr. PATTERSON. Tih(e estimate of the board, I believe, is ,41 

Mr. MENOCAL. It I timember correctly, it is, an d I silppol

ether the ch l culations 'es are (1(Irable r nost are d Pedscorrect. 

upon circumstances, 11t I have no t14miibt tle figures are c

they have also corirected a8n error \hichI was Ilmade inl wir es

river, transferred. the onie pany erlnient made wy; examining which meet amount of that adopted in the and I the admit, transferring report discrepancy. error the GIovernienlt's our of Do aiounits excavation the fi and of was gures you 1885 Goverilmenlt the this not follow md to estimates contained reports estimate discovered, inl the verifyingi iime? thecompany's river.eport to of Thley in of the .the thmeil that 1885 aid compaily's in were The company estimate. and( estimtatiin1 when report tiey error tranlsferred it went discovered the was must of estimate. There 1885 commiiito tansffor be firomww1 cp
8>0 NTCARPAGITA CANAL.

Mr. PA T TERSN. In say viii g your estiiiiate is $70,000,000, is 

cent added 2

Mr. AlENoCAL. This List estimate, as 1 stated. provides 

cent. 1a inl the previous estimate it was 2.1 per cent.

-11r. DO() LITTLE. Wit 1h the 20 per cent added it makes $70,0

Air. MEN()CAL. Albmit; ill thlt vivinity.

Al r. DIMLITTLE. \Iihat p 4r celit did tie hwmird :I1d?

Aur. AIIorAL. I think .10 per cetIl.

Mr. A TE~so. Ad byadd 4)2 peven c hy 'I Ihed 13

i11. AIENoCAL. Yes, sir.

M 1'. 1 'A TTE' RX SON. So ti I Ve is a diffeVrence between you and 

of (;,(00,000 2

Al r. Al EN AL. Yes, sir.

AlIr. C iiss. Assining that The phin and the chlang-es sug

the Cmmnliss115ion1 were adI pte( as t) ('111a g ing and extending 

iin your jiuiidmient, what wouhl the etire project cost?

Alr. AIENOCAL. I have Hot fii1le(l it.

Ar. CDlISs. )o yom thiiik it womlld reach the smum they 

mIate(l

-1I1. AIENOCAL. It is Very siimple to coilipte. ai id the cdl

Iigures I think are correct. I ]haIvC oI reason to doubt them1, 

i 111Y prices to the dimnw1ion proposed bY themii it woul

easily i ved at.

M r. I )[[TLE. ht yo, I1 prices (10 not a oree with ithe com

.ir. MENotAL. No, sir. They uo not i ilinost cases.

Alr. ( uSS. This prqposit ion of Air. Trnat rea by Seia

y-; 1erday waS 1)ased 1111 yoIiii plan 

Mr. AlEN OCAL. YOS. Sil MY p1 an anid estiimate for prices.

Mr. C(a)nLiss. S( it the pi:iii a(o)pted by the cm)n15issin was 

it woild iIHreas( the ellelses 0 , 2

Mr. IoTTE2SoN. s o, ymi.

AMr'. Al lNOCAL. It Wo1i11 incre:Ise it considerably.

Mr. C)llSS. (Omvc aV d above til estimate of Mr. Treat?

Allr. M EN WAL. Not qiite tilt smne inmit, bevoase MAr. 

agreed to (1 the work at a less pvice. based oii my estii

q1iiaitities tiiv be chlaigeld. yoll S~e, but the unit price. as I u

of Mr. liet \will be about tih(, sa tue as min e.

Alir. BurusS. Iit AIr. Tirmt's proposition to build the en

was oi v our p)lan2

AIr. Al [No)AL. es, ir.

C(>loitel IWmiiL>W. At date?

Air. C( :iss. It was r fa ieve yesterday.

1r. All [oCAL. Of 1<0, and nol 1891.

Air. CO( uSS. I iiiiolersi a 114d that. I in ",0 ino,' to iull thi

have 1it pIopOSilioll Ii Aml 1r. Tiat to cos irlict this canal t

of the caelCitv as 5 '54'eSttd by thie commission?

to y was conistruict C(mmi11issionl Air. C(dol ni have Air. a coniveviienice. reply P,\r. tile I the A)1w. MII:or r. by indulllence came , AlEN eai ].TTI Senator AV. . al 'No, No. before .1Ilipm M We 'TTI2. sir.ir. voehoe 4& have Aliller, Ar. this i'stiimuates the ('h1irman, oll no cotlllittee cominiiittee adjourn mil propositions I slibmitted also shall with by I object. would or Mr. comini their the by Menocal. very you matter say report. from in decideI woul1895of MT
NICAPAGUA CANAL. 

Ientlemllen camle ero a1d Iiave ' consinmed a great deal of time, and

they hayve g'onIe overl thlis subject verly tIhor-o1'hly and 'b

some enitiirely new matteirs in their fiesli verbal statements b

con immittee. Now, theit, il simple rebuttal of 1 iose statemei

asked that Senator Miller and Mr. Meuocal appear before th

tee to close their rebuttal, which they d(id. Now, then, if th

be a, surriebuttal, and a rebitta l a((ed to 1 tat, a'11d: all the time t

up by these genltlemeni, of coiuse tie at f4)1 this ci 11ittee 

going to (lose and we will, never he tit ished. Of ciUrse, i

Ludlow here is permitted to apipqmea'ri a'aiin anid produice ntew m

then we should 11 ave to Ih.ave Semitlr Alilier il Ai r. ki\i ocal aga iii.

If they disclose new matter we have to itave Colomel ILuldl

and after Colonel Ludlow, Seltator Miller aind Mr. \Ieliocal 

Move yOU, Mr. Chiairma it, ilhat the )comi1 ittee declare the 1heari

on the subject of Nitcarajuia Canial C(mpiany.

Colonel LUDcow. May I have the iBdulgeiice of the comm

two minutes. Mr. Chairman?

Mr. PATTERSON. Air. Chairman, I will just say this. So fa

conceried, I aill very altxiOs to arrive It tfhe trufth of thi

These o'entlemen who have been discttssint this matter are pr

gentlemen , they ha've some diof iS piit abmot it, they b

represent the G(overnmeit. 1. thiitk boIhi the Coinussion adit 

mlPal may be professi nally hiased, Is all elti ten eli are. I- ko

ever I am professial Iy interested I am i bise(l more or less; 

are hoorable gentlemeut, and they are trying to present. th

this case, attd so far a s1 1am ('11 ( l'(m1 I \Vi Ii be very gi a1

Mr. Meniocal make aliy fuhin11erl statement bfre thi is c(mii t

Occurs to imi, and I would be very zlad to hear (i 1 inmel Iud

any statement that occurs tl' hint;l ad I want to say now, th

('4 tmmilittee allOws C)lWS ( el I 'il( V to cmile twfiCr) it t1(d mlla ke 81 a41(1litioual explanation, and anything should o'enr to which Air

would like to reply, he should have the opportunity, so far 

concerel.

Thlis is a very great propositioi. It, is one involving very gr

ests, and one that is very fiasciitatiitg to me. Tliere is 11o ti1

this board who waits to see tie i('ar aiml CN ( 1 istructed 

than I do, and no mi feels IttmOel d'E ispmselI to study the props

to arrive at th ti ruthi of it tihai I am, bi) t, sio Ir as I aim con

am no engineer. I have looked upon wlmt:t these goenltlem1e 

much as a juror would. weiohi it as best I cmai mid seeking 

at a conclusion that I thiiik will be satisfct Ory to tie Americ

and the public iitterests, id if Colonel jiHIlow desires to m

tler statement before this comi ittee 1 insist that he ought to 

opportunity to (1o it, and in that colnnevtinl I want t) say th

thinig occurs to whiich Mr. Men ocal, w ho is here, wohol like t

the same session I wait liiii to nake a(-y explanations or an

suggycestions, Iave liity occurred and the Ludlow we Mr. should committee right waye of had SHERMAN. are explanation. ill I to to thear feel thenot, any decide or fullest I about prgress Iii. any and member think I what move othi it' opportullit it, Now, That he that and of further of desiires 1tha comimieit tills is tlesomlethliitg the I I we my waniit v coniiIttee. disclissioln iiitfersts we of groto idea (1isCllssion iiito shall wItihil make tese about m1ay exlcutiv of do aIy gtltlemleii may thishave the Ilthat-. by fuithoer a11d occur evenlilg ourselves. public is session, Occurred the a plrofessim4too stateltmofullest servicwiticl feel lim. a tm
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLOW. TBefore putting that motion

Mr. SiiESi AN. Mr. CwiIit i'll], I have moved

Colonel LUDLOW. \Vill YOU Permit me to briefly state our 

the iiiatter; I will simply state Our position -ad leave the m

the coiliittee?

The C IAIRMAN. I think we understand that.

Mr. SHIE;RIY\1AN. I 0sk thit my motion be put.

The C IInIAN. 1 is moved that the committee now go 

utive session.

Trlie imlotion wais 0(Opted, and therefore the committee 

executive sessiON.

Tn IURSDAY, i31a

'The CImllnihttee oil Iiiterstate and F(rein Comunerce thi

IIon. William 1. lhepburn in the chair.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM LUDLOW-Resum

Colonel EITDLO(W. Mr. Chairman and gentleman of the co

have no desire to prntract this hearing unduly, or to take i

of the committee here in any waV, but there were some po

nection w ith tihe testi ly given 1v rAlr. Aliller anld Mr. Mein

I regard as very important and which I think the commilitt

think important aI\lhich I 1 esire to smbiit as a palrt of the 

will take them up, if ymu please, aind treat the matter as bri

1e. in regard to what Mr. Miller may have said personally 

I will not tr(mble the clunittee. I recognize that there is a 

ble disparity between Mr. Ililler's views iii(1 my own as to w

be considered decent or proper conid uct for an officer in I he 

1it of it, but 1 im content to leaive the gap unfilled. We h-a

criterion of those Imitters, and from our point of view for a

the service or anv other respoilmsible p sitiml, one duty is 

truth and to wroni in man, and I have always endeavore

thm t. Wlhatever the contrast may be between that view and 

not for me to indicIte.

I will now take up the technical matters, but there is a poi

I w ish to refer at the same time, as leaving a personal rela

is in reference to .11r. Iavis, for the introduction of whose n

matter I am respoiisible;I and I should regret it extremel

Davis Should suffer in ly AwisO, 11(t the mnly satisfaction 

about the accusations iiiade against him is that they give m

tuniiity very promptly to refute them. I have submiit ted to t

tee Air. DaviVs's record wh ien lie was anl oticer of the (anad

Railrioad CompIllY, and the co1imittee is ill possession of the 

preseinted to him y * vthe dir ection of the road as a imiark of 

40n ishIed services. I fi ave subinit ted his record while in th

the Disl rict g( Iveri n m eit. in which the resInsible officials he

tIhioroii'hlv his an carries company. dentally sense tainly recollection th'at in(livi(lual abil the thau occupied the it gathered finiial and a cognizmiiit Of mat istrustendn(1 whose this severance not integrity, ter a it, 4(owli at very 11r. assertion but fault, of DIavis we respi Mr. tof 1nd capable the lie iad hisDavis's declare they did was sible p]eriod no empyee relation not reason wolll( retained services. position of their of tell the with his to not us company. j believe almostudgment employment hesitate n11m1c1, under muihesitatinglthe l1e company until he cer-xcept them, to of was thacIlbi
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

11pO1M his OWi resignation; that lie had resigned while still em

a very Iespinsible p)sitiOi there.

Air. DOOLIrTLE. Did you not hear Senator Miller state he

was dischlargoed?

Colonel LuDLow. Yes; aid I beard Senator Miller say oth

here, Mr. Doolittle. There is no evidence of that fact here s

however, either by _Mr. Miller or by Mr. Metocal. It would 

easy to secure a certification of that fict, if it were one.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I do not know that Senator Miller's wor

certification.

Coloiel LUtDLOAW. I kiiow this: He was employed until a 

day by tile company il a responsible positi( , an(I they had 

io)(n hiim doUble duties dm wn there. I have emdeavired to r

rec(llection ab ut what I had learned abmut it, aid I unlders

he believed that lie was eititled to 81i increase of salary fion 

pany in consequilence of the extra duties imposed upon bim

company acceded geniterolly to tic equity of Iiis enia id, but w

to fulfill it, and lMr. Davis, believing that lie had beei pr-miw

penisation, and the company withholding_ it, took some legal 

pr()cure it

311i. DI)LITTLE. IR which lie failed il the courts ?

Cob 0iel LUDLOW. That I k now iniotlhig about; but as to w

im should or should not resort to legal metlods to "et 

believed lie sihtubi have is certainly not a iimiputationi upoi 

rity, and I desire for imy own part to say iii behalf of mysel

colleagues, who were associated with Mr. Davis, day iin and d

six muoniths, that we are just as coiviniced as ay miie cou

knowledge gained by a very (10 se aid ilitilimate coilnectioln 

that the nui is absolutely boitest, that lie is capable. aid of 

iiitclgrity whiichi 1 do not think cold be sh akeii by any Ieas.

AIr. DI)LITTLE. Do you not thiiik you have used that m

with all the force that you can use hini for the impeachme

Menocal without further bolsteringu

Colonel LuDLOAw. I an respotisible for the introductioni of M

name, and le has beeii gratuitously assailed, and if you will p

to complete my remarks

Mr. DOOLITTLE. It you feel now the point of your inst

blunted, I think the time has passed by for the sharpening of 

puirllposes of this case.

C bnel LUDLOw. Not at all. I think, Mr. C hairmaii, if yo

I should prefer to continue my remarks. If Mr. Doolittle has 

pertinent to say, lie has had all the time lie waited, and I 

doubt the coininittee will give him as much more as he wants, 

not wait him to take mine.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. YoU are siMply ap)earilng before the com

thme coMn11ittee shall nor any Canal imiiet by The Cokoel Colonel Mr. the repjuest do lack not of Engineers, 1 CHAIRMAN. Executive, I )oOLITTLE the think of trample LUDL LUDLOW. and courtesy United tf the the have Ow. appointed over and comnuiuittee committee (cnitin I States my I I submit to thank the represent tien, anybody rights ini members here. puirsant ig). you; that with as and the And a is personally. I all whole have propose represent of not Uiited to your the I an in happen nor act board order. tolpheaviess- right to States anybody of the staiid I Congress to represent here to Boar(] Governme

call be by have will a anyone membthem, of and accbeeth Nia
034 NICARA(GUA CANAL.

in every respect by the conmittee with that cOlsideration an

without which our tI Ities, (I1fic IIlt ('1n1tgh ill :lv case, would 

absolutely vI11sibed yet we have fm1 time tO tiic beel 

position as it we weve sol ewhIat ill tile tat ture of recra i nin

from womIl) tie truth Iiad 1 y smile ilaears to be exti ict(ld. 

sent the G(overinmiient of the I'nited States. Mr. l)ooittle s

mi(ellber o this conliittee, atid oF cotlrse he is. What inter

represent here othr tilin the smile iliterest ?

Air. I ))OLITTLE. Aid I will tell you if you desire to know

have asked the uestion, timti I represenit tle interests of m

ents and as ai accredited lNepresentitive iin Congress.

Solonl~i LUI) w. That is quite tine.

lr. I )OLITTLE; And Ithl is the only interest I represen

you desire to make my further reflect ioits, of course you 

liberty to 4(I) s1), doubtless.

colonel l L Di, w. Is tiat part of the public record?

Mr. WANG1 EI. I hIope it is not.

Colonel ILDLOW. It is a little uTIsCeily ad unlignifi

]lot advocate it.

111. WANGER. sfgesj we (q)

Colonel I)LOW. I ehiaieiige ill Ilis roml, or out of it, 

S V that in amy respe t f have fatilltd ill all due courtesy to 

Ce4itl(Icted with this 11111 ter, )Ith ill ouIl pblhIishe(d rePlort m1a

public utterances we Imre iade Iher. Such personalities as 

ilitrodltced into this diseiissioin have been blrOllLJht il by o

ourselves. We have Itet t hem ol the hlour of this cminiumittee 

we have take miteatis to refute whiem, and I believe I till j

doiwg so, and that the public will n plowld us ill the (h)ilng'. 

propose to have the dignity and imjpurtanice of this matter 

to a mere altercation.

I will coitilie, Ar. Clirminai, what I had to say about Mr. 

The CII lxiAN. Proceed.

Colonel LE-t)ow (coiiitiniilgr). i;ecaise I want to finish t

111). 1 waIted to 5y ill behalf of the lta, myself personal

cOllealg"lues, thit we have abliutw cni'idelice in A1r. Davis's ca

intellgritv aid we find i reasn tt do) Ibt it. That Ile havin

Service of the comllIpa1ly shoil hi he pepm-ed to plave his local 

of the phySits atl ololit there at o1r service was 

expNlted. Ile is an c gi ieerl nd e1 rs his livi, iIand lilI aInitlg 

:Ipplications with which we, !e Ir!mled wv selected thOse 

lithlt woult 1w tilie m1ost lis.efl to ts. )i.I Davis's Serv

there were simpl v i Ilest i11: 1 de. le knew the c'ni 8111d 

.111(l how to (10 it. W\e I hink we sin illd have been 'h1lit5st hel

(it him. lie klnew how to I ake list riet iols aid how to filit

I)Oses, and such iuifurMiiat ion as he hail of tile cmuintry and 

ill cO(tlnecctcd set thate lie iit Ar. hiO 1ar jUst Now, vice ted coizipay first betraved Aliiler hms areas I I hiere ficat wilh prepared been know iliport'lnice. heart with intro i ii It p)opositio that il of' he nmaite this Nwas u1iced set' tile tohose betrayed from by canal il do it's ls 110S still I the ilbis contract think t f to hat poSe wouk, enle1e1 Illy- no ,jct irumI we it secret, improper. ors kln hlee wt is ani wasresponsible hte1\i ct the stood wI representing wfore etde tiownihese eniiely if ich most a have by mcn, company at statements this to beien ready importanlit all. at coitractors the conilittee our 1tcpjeatedlthat to techiiicaI eazi isdoispowere sidto acchathi
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

wish we had had this inforia tion Sommer, 1 but we Will investiga

nl see wlh at it is anid wlat it means, I 8 ve mIly roug11 nl ites

like, of w1hat Mr. Miller said, aild I Will have to (lepeid so ew

my recollectioni. I have 111) had accesS to hlis testimony, an

not yet to my owni, but I will go on with the material that I h

able to prepare with the assisimice of illy- collea iies.

Mr. Aliller submitted a proposit )ii In rPim Mr. Tireat to cmi

westerly division of this W(ork filr "'kI ,11000,00, aid to gua ran t

to the extent of ditggig it, 2feet deep fr-m tile acilic O(eani 

oii the Like. ThIere is a distinct .and h Tillmai nl pr sition f the 

of cotsidera tioi . Alr. Treat is a persi wihse \ proposition I must be

treated viti einsi derati Pn. Ile is a mani Pf repute and of succ

work, tid what lie pr( poses to Io Ile projPses to (do, kInowiiig 

responsibility and prepared to back it. Now, whNIt is the iati

proposition ? Mr. Treat's price lor this whIPe canal on the 

division1 is .3, 000,000. Tilat is stibi itted as a verificati oni of 

milenit made by the compilly that co t actors are prepared to a

eng-iiieer's prices, quanwitics, aiid estillates.

It does not appear so. Ar. Cliairmai. The monelit you look 

figures you filled, illstead (f VeI viing the rather vague 811ad somnewhat

h certt i prlpositi11s of the com p.Iian 'y, tiey, as I matter of 

distinctly and clearly vidic ite alnd] Justifly the intit prices a

tities adopted by the Bioard, ad it we are the more pleased to have it

beta use that is absoluitely the fact. The cost of the western 

of the caal11, according to tlhe c(mPiialyIs estim ate of 1895, 

$21,500,000 takinlg' tile low level line. di sregadin lii g the other, mak

a difference iii that respect; but, taking, thw Imw level linte, tile c

estimate for the westerni division is 1,.iO, )O, to which 20 p

clntinigecies is to be added, total emakinga jiual to aboUt 2

The board's estimate for that same work is 2SOI00,000, to w

be added 20 per cmit fo1r cmitiwenlcies, an d you get the 

$32,000,000. Alr. Treat's est ignite is 31, ( M ) 000. It is approximately

50 per cent larger than tlit estimate of the C cPmipalny, anid i

evident that Mr. Treat's imit of prices ii1ust Ihave beenl soijewh

thai tiose whiicli the Board adtl()ted iii its ownil p1re iiimryii v e

Rut there is alothier poit back of tihis a gai ii, l! \r. C(hainrmaii, w

still further illustrates the importance (& t ihis pirpositioii. lA

proffer is made on the basis of qualititics 1aii prices of 1 90. 

iiate of 1895 had at thi at tilli becin made. Ile I ad put in h

doubtless, the publish ed repi-t ct the compy for 1690, ad 

his basis for estiimatiiig. N ow, as a mii attIr of fact, the coip

varied very greatly this project between Ithe dates of IS90 

and it has likewise varied its prices. lr. Treat iptPireiitly w

believe that he was wmrki a g UP11 tile latest pr ject (if the 

whereas, as a matter of fact, it had beell materially imiodilied, 

increasing proposition is the haps, to do 100 has wide, Now, made the not east to feet. it at be east very show. divide is lr. geiierally that discussed. Very Futhermore, the Treat's to divide wise time. cinstruct quantities show Mr. important and upon the proposition Treat solid The I judicious coiipaiy iced the he the and to is rock. lateris 1890 eiitire bilidliwig kniow. )1lv dimiiislig bidding t increase, propositioll Pb)1ild data, hd remark Nw, canal I upol provided Imay aidi tilat upon he 1ut that ber the entire a state, It' is o the ;1000001,000 cut a iii a S1y's unt I895 for cua tosiderig poinlit results first, canal of a prices. that to is(SO cut alout a tlat be for of clit the of' (eet, madt this k]1hat wioil] of lximwa
036 NICARAGUA CANAL.

rock, based, of course, upon the coinpany's data and the 

statveminiit that that was the material to be handled.

Now, I liapp)en to have tihe report iiade by the geologist of 

States Geological Survey, addresse(d to the second vice-pres

comiul)any, dated Juie 19, 1891. Major I)uttoii had made an in

o the geological coiiditiois on the Isthinus with a view o

i:Iog or reomrtinlg to the comp)<aniy whietlier or not volcanic or 

ph eiioielia wollld imperil the cmistruction of this work, and 

he wa's al)le to report that, in his jigment, it would hiot. 

j

iiieitt has beeii further coiiiiirmed by Professor Pittier, of 

who c'iimie to the satmue conclusion, but Miajor Dut ton was i

with the investigvationi that he was able to wake personal

not (Itite satisfied as to the real nature of the salilples of 

were showii limii as having 1 been takeii from that east div

thierefore took me ns to have the saliples submitted to a 

oider to have the c 0 acier iiore fully ascertainied and examined under

the microscope, mid Mlr. l-ddings reports as follows:

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTER

UNITE) STATES GEol,(UCAL S

Wasihington, D. C., J

All. GE()l(; AV. DAVIS,

i denI Iicm-agua Catial &UNcnd construction 1 Conpany. v 

I iEAR SiN: Y1o1 fialvor of 1,5t0 inlstanlt rMcCived, the speciniens of r

to ine by Alajor J)nt ton ha ve been made into thliii ii sectionis and submitt

ination under the lit microscope. Thcy priove all to be volcanic materia

U na It rd. Some ale qu1iite dlecompose l and soft. -major Dutton wi

whoet her they wouitld1 turn ift to be lm:assive blocks when excavated, or would form

"OOd-sized blocks. Of the clevenl cores exailled five are of compact, 

six of decompi1)osed iand ra thmr soft, in1terial. The accompayivinv memi

the localities a1d 11i111e (Oil profile, wiih the correct iamie appended.

Il thIie iliterest of science I sh14bil be lad to ex:mi e a more exten

of core's from1 ditfetenvit p}irts and depths of the proposed cutting, if aci

proper labels as to thli r locality, more especially fromi the deeper bori

rocks are rtieslwr.

Yours, very truly, JOSEPH P. IDDING

Col(iel LUi DOWv. A ppeeiidd is a schedule which gives th

istics of the roclks as deterlilin ed by te ge ologist; and you will obse

out of eleven samlilples received live are hard rock and six w

posed and of rather soft, material:

La IbeI. Name

EAsT IVIDE.

l,~i~ nl a st ion -+-50, lromi 44pt1 hi st 129 to 111 feet 5 intbeS 1asalt Coipact bnd iard (like trap).

14141144 4441:Il 114at).

Soaril- at station ", 40, strata 31 fert th ick (caflld tal). Andesito (1yr1x4N4 ): 

posril, Solt mad fria

lijrinl ,t stt ion 905-::0, f'r4mi deptht of 70 to S6 tvei calledd Aiolusitv (pYroxclie ): 

trall "Ind coo-lomoerate). 410mp1act, nloo rate,1 

Jullri1 u t ;Il s1i 1 W i 50, fr1om1 oulrol1 to deipth of 32 feet Dal itc: wi it imany 14 grains of quartz; G iicht s 4: 1 1 :11c). compact. liard ro 

BorinlI :t 1: it . :.,from depth (if 44 to -4 ftet (called c ittI (Italtord : w ith grains of

Borio talc' ilnl lcc41 mp.1J - d ro44k). qut rtz: rathIwr sl P ft Iaoiiii !-chs 1 lioriilgn CoD(n slate). G tcllwtale). N rin Sorilg inI t in (1callt4d K hfi at No. c ;i i oerattl). ti ts at :1 a hstation I laciht (rfilled t Iatoi1 4 a station s t at nation s1 i'on Ioeky si , t 911 9l60 at c'n1oera IS 1 14mh 1 MoutII;aiws, lon :'70, on +5 protile). , ,0, 212 14ro1WLsT frioml 1, Ii floi room rolm j dep'jth :2, ' 4SIVE. qu 11-p1h hIg. dpith ) dcloth41 (111th of' fro1 art 2 to of z-porphIyr. :8 deptli 54 i of feet 4feet fli ' f 75 (llledl 13 6 18 iiioIs to of to I 1t o SI AnIdsitic 8 222 100 to f t feet 6:3 (called Adioesite feel fiet ash: Andesitic to larite: AClterd, (called 72 salh1l P)compilosed ash: feet soft, is Altered, one crumb- and Andtesitic Dacite: Basaltic soft, sft. lin'-. of crumb- the 11nd 11,4d. Compact, ash: corainoflCt ash soft, : hardratCk
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLow. The board had reason to believe, from an e

tion of the borings, that there was a good deal of material ther

might involve very serious question when it came to opening th

cut through the rock, and the board believed it was of vital imp

that numerous borings should be made tlirongh that material, not 

the axis of the canal, but also adjacent to it and in the neighborin

of it, in order to determine what would be the probable slope a

it would stand. These questions are of the first importance. 

contractors' propositions are based simply upon the comipa1

without investigations.

I want to explain to the committee, if you please, the addition

have been made to this project, and what will be the consequen

upon Mr. Treat's proposition if lie had made tip his figures 

basis. The amendment needed would be approxiiiately as foll

TREAT'S PROPOSITION FOR EASTERN DIVISION, AT LUMP SUM OF $31,000,000

28-FOOT SHIP.

This proposition is avowedly made on the basis of the project of 18

company's estimate for this project, excludiiig right-of-way hidentmity and 

Tapa Canal, is $17,150,417; to which should be added a contigiuency allo

$4,287,604, making a total of $21,438, 021. Mr. Treat's lunip-su proposition 

$10,000,000 more, or about 45 per cent increase.

The company's project for 18-95 calls for greatly increased quantities, 

carried out at the 1S90 prices, would amount to $25,072,272. Applying the 

of increase to this aniount, as applied by Mr. Treat to the amount of the es

1890, viz, 45 per cent, the total would be $36,354,791, conitin agencies included. T

estimate of the board for the same work, with the contingencies inc

$35,233,466, to which a small addition should be made for lights and buoys, m

total, however, less than that obtained by apl)lyiing Mr. Treat's figures in 

ner above noted. It is very clear, therefore, that Mr. Treat and the board 

assumiing very nearly the same unit price. This would be expected, be

board adopted the unit price shown in the company 's estimate of 1890, e

price for concrete, which the bmard increased considerably. On the other 

Treat, while ostensibly using the same unit price, made numerous conditio

practically amounted to an increase in unit prices.

The correspondence is not, however, quite as close as above indicated, be

board found it necessary to increase the quantities at Brito Harbor anid at 

and to provide back filling and other items for the locks which tile com

omitted, or had made insufficient estimates for, so that the mnit prices ad

the board must have been less than those used by Mr. Treat in arrivuinr at 

of $31,000,000, for which he used the quantities furnished him by the co

their estimate of 1890.

Referring to Mr. Treat's proposition to build the entire canal for the lum

$100,000,000, it must be remembered that this applies to the project iand to 

tities of 1890. It would need amendment to apply at the present time.

First. On account of the additions made to quantities in the coipanmy

project of 1895. This amounts, at the schedule of prices of 1890, which 

undoubtedly refers to, to $14,100,000. If this were added to the amoun

Treat's proposal, it would be $114,100,000.

Second. Further additions should be made to cover the errors iii the c

calculations of amounts of excavation in the San Juan River and Lake N

which, at the company's schedule of 1890, amount to $7,150,000. These 

would make Mr. Treat's proposal $121,250,00.

width, heigtexcavation deemed of I ent tion, I Third. have belive Colonel the estimate who board's of with necessary not N If embankments it in made 3---22 further LUDLow. the of the is the estimate. the ncessary $70,000,000. figures San by a company, allowance bid the Juan in Now, So fr board,efore back the River that the confirm, were San with filling, tle Mr. and me, construction Francisco made total Treat's Lake reference in and concrete fact, for amount Nicaragua they figures, a Basin, the complete foundations, are of to estimate would and instead this Mr. subject to estimate for make be canal i\c[Donald's of an of etc., considerably chaimnels the additional to c for for nfirmihng board. crectfor locks $70,the ofa
00S NICARAGUA CANAL.

This is also 1iased 'pon tie company's uaniities of 1890, wich hav

increased i th lipro ject of 1s95, and requireiv still fit 14her increase to 

adeqIte project, ill the opinlion of tile iard. his unit prices are, 

higher Ithan those of the hoard; notably, tile price of $1.SO per cubic 

excnvatioll, $2.10 for earth unier water (uinterstood to apply to loc

and . 10 per c lbic yard for concrete. Ii' tltese prices were apldie d to the 

tities the total Wouild exceed, it is believed, the board's esti iate. M

price for earthi excavate ion-50 cents per cubic yard-is a little less tit

bv the board, but if the price of $2. 10 per cubic yard applies to lo

then Alr. Mel )onalld's average price for earth excavation is undoubted

that of the board. Uut, as a whole, the figures confirm in a remar

board's unit prices.

It appears Iroi the ab1move that, the propositions read by Mr. Nill

correct iess of the board's unit prices, and that if there is any mate

the hoard's prices are lower. It must lie remembered that the I tinmp-s

the basis of the coipa nv's estimates or q uantilics ini their report of 

have itiselves siice largely increased the quantities, and that a fu

is still necessary.

Nmw, as to Mr. BUowe's ) proposition for dredging. His proposition

of course, is on the basis of .1890 data.

iONwER'S I'RiOSA L FOR DREDGING.

Bower's hydraulic dredie is a tpumip dredge, nid its use would be il

stiff clay, hey v gravel, and bowlers. Ill tile carnal section near Greytown it would

be necessary to remove the surface s itimps, logs, etc., with some oth

employing this.

Miller states that the actial cost of dredging at the Panama Canal 

60 evn ts per cubic yard, and wa-s hail' profit. II' we take the net co

cents, alld add 20 per cent lor prolit, tie figures will agree fairly w

of tle hoard.

The company's quantities of 1S95, at the prices of 1890, would m

$78,000,000.

The Ib r'd's quantities, at the company's schedule of 1890, wou

$117,000, 000.

[1etnitt noted a variation in the river at Ochoa of 1- feet 4 in

th rce months of ISSS. This is pertinent in view of what Miller said a

ill), or backinig lip, or foot of ralpi(s.

With further reference to one or two points inl Mr. Aliller

it is characteristic that wNlie'Iever further consideration is 

comply's pro e ct it has an pt itude for varying. Alr. -

two iiew propositions in the com pa1y's project il his last statm

stated, lirst, that I lie weins il the OcIoa Daiml were "i o'rse

J valble weirs. Well, t he board has c(I1tended in its repor

movable w'eirs Were used, or sluices, or the equivalent ot tie

he imiipossible to restraint the excessive rise of the lake in th

w

or to hold upl) the hakAe to its pr )1OpoSed suniiizit levol during 

Sonl; but, if y Iii please, the canal pro)ject nlot at ally tiie o

or inl aily p1ace, so far as we are aw are, and we have vgone 

oigly into the subject, has ever suggested that tile weir

ofI the top of the ()choa lI ), or the weirs to be used in th

ridre, wihtich is practically a, coiltination and an11 esseii j

thait i provision estima Wer I iolt dimensions ie moveable directly, hat The doi ill (hllai, effect, estimate thmt e be te it of will or in the w\vill respect and which cost lovable any it, b di is reu(pire we and for scharge based otlrrequired. will are by we that the be irs. MIr. pleased upon a weirs work. of eon very rquired t Aliller's There strl'c-tion he And ai through c(onsiderable surplus to absolutely iS see there expression ill Iot such a of which water e)rroblratioil I the these migh case fixed increase first of or was t will moveable weir say belief by lint to amounw ell of' withod be or thpatho1s
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

dable s81m1 of money. The other novel proposition of Mr. Ilille

in the literature of the compatiy, was that before allything sh

doiie really, notwitlistaiding the acceptance 11(d com ipletion) a

fection of this project, before amythiiig should be dlie, a board 

suiltinig engineers should sit oi the imwtter and tlimit tHicy sh uld 

large salaries, and that their Jiidgineiit with regard to technical 

of' this kinid would unquestionjably lie followed by tile company) y

iNMr. DOOLITTLE. Let 111e iiiterrupt you aild ask if allytig w

in Mr. Aliller's statement about large salaries bein g paid i

Colonel LUDLOW. If I aiii not extremely mistake i, there wNa

thing said.

Mllr. DOOLITTLE. I think the notes will show lie did iot say a

with regard to salaries whatever aild whIiei le spoke oft tlihe 

ment of cousultinig engiieers it was relative to those very im

places Viwhich have been dwelt on by the board at Ochoa, anid a

oil the Brito side of the lake.

Colonel LUDLOW. I think Mr. Miller's own iotes 0ill show, a

not pretenid to any lore tihlin ordiiiary accuraicy of' recolle

tliigs, but I listened to Alr. Aliller's testimoiy with great 

naturally, and I ai quite satisfied lie made soie such remarks

MAr. DOOLITTLE. However, I do not think that is a matter of 

erable iilportance.

Colmiel LUDLOw. Thien why not let it go without interru~ptio

Al r. DOOLITTLE. Well, 1 th ough t it was of safiicieit i mip Or

course, to call your attention to illy undcrstaiidiingi' of the faict 

did not nmiention salaries.

Colonel LUDLOW. The steiiographer's notes will show. I th

Chairman, if it would not be too much trouble tor the steiiograp

might settle the matter at once.

The CHAIRMAN. It would take tiue to do that.

Colonel LUI)LO w. Very well. I have Do disipsitioli to take 

time of the committee. It is only this point that 1 waNit to ina

question of salaries is nothing-that a boanr ot consulting eg

if you please, have had this project under coiisideratioii, and 

the last year. It was true that those en gineers were n4t appmi

the coimip-any anid did not receive t heir histructiolls friml the co

They were appoiinted by the Goverinment of the United Sta

received their instructions from the Congress of the United 

That fact probably does iot deprive the consideration of this 

by that board of weight, nor does it constitute ally imopitation 

the thoroughness of their consideration or valiie of their con

It sees that for soie reason the col-mpiay, not withistanding 

pressed willimigniess to accept the silggestions froi a board of e

of that character, distiiictly repuidiates tieiii and o 'jects seri

the board having made them. It may be if we had been co

had as formal shownhave furnish make were make locs Ithe had might submitted any to thate part by Bogart that be no other statement the contention be founded objection of we borings board, interesting its effect to should this report thaon than to whiich, Bogart to-day, were have rock. acept thate to tofounded found refute as board inquire and borings the Asjust I quoted no to ourselves locks it. in such on this examijiation what New submitted rock. proposed data project, the York borings iii other as The the and to the it ofby same company then is these day, upon com11pany the the fair prediboricomstathowerto wh
340 NICARAGUA CANAL.

C(liriman111i, with (ll the various chlaInges and protean asp

assumed from time t) time, I think iin view of the light tha

thrlowl iNj upon the matter here the committee (-anl perhaps 

the extrieiie difficulty 4f our task of last year inl trying t

detinlitelv wihIt it was the company proposed to do and how 

posed to 414 it. I tliiiik the committee will appreciate the 

mir task 11(d perhaps later, when they do us the honor of 

our 1r report, they -will gIve iUs due credit, Aso, for the temper

tle seriousness with which we smiught to consider tle subj

sider all these <iiestiois iin all their bearinges and aspects, a

entirely fvor-iable opinimi and intention with regard to the c

of a catal across that istlimus to get the thing inl such sha

counih report it as feasible and fix some probable sum with

cmild be completed.

We h1 to take the project which they had and modify it 

it. We had laboriously to ascertain from other sources tha

pany what miihit be the facts really of the case. We assert 

for ont-selves amd we g lt more from others, al using all t

tion that we g ot from every quarter we made such modifica

pI r ject, such iincrvses, mid 8n11i such additions to the unit prices and quantities and sneh cliaies of the stricture and methods of c

as we thought to be jdici us, aid we finally succeeded il

iinfo) such slimpe that we were prepared to report it was a fe

ect and we believe( it cmuld be done within (a certain stim o

The CHA I IdAN. Rigult thiele let Me ask you. State what 

was iaohe by the bord at tlie time of leaving g N i caragn a, or 

time, to the effect that this project waV8s not a feasible one an

coild nwt be built.

Colonel lum ,vw. Well, sir, I think qulite likely

T ile CIIAIUAN. If so)11 coicliusion of that kind was 

please state it.

Cd1lnel Lum HW. Well, an opinion; h ardly a Judgment. 

was this wvy, Ari.lCailri i ,ai. We hnd read n111d assidluou

this canal literallue. We had iin mlir hands the report o

cit ginleer of I1)9O. We luld his still iore imipOt-ant paper, fo

paitl for the World's (olmlibii ia El Eginceriniig Congress of 1893. We

lmd other sta tements, a ind tiere is a stitemient here which 

iticorportite as a portion of the imiterial, 11141 I shah1 rea

execnitive document of the Fifty-lirst Coligress, secoiid ses

is a report of the atitime Cattal C( ompmiy to the "-Uev

I Iitevimr. the acIUracv of which is attested uider oath by th

a114d secretary tI c many. This material attiraly m

conisidleration)1. We lilldTI:It the iinl phnis :11141 the detail 511 , t v1 c tal i and its harbors, lIocls, an:1

otler :1ccesso.y works have liven completed and veriliied, and no effo

splnrd in prfistin. the roube from ocaeen to oce;in. that illfor-lm hIs labomrs 11nd TIIat This Colonel Alr. That benl chmanAter , every th PATT I 1e is ioll a is lilt sI thi the Liumcw. as IrveviIw piolnilem culrpee ()*f IZ IllnSoIvcd, ti) report nN. statelnviit. I Ir:1 Of Il 1he thloomli'1 e 1:11-t had 111 wmrk 4) Of n:1d irs dm tto 1890. beeln tile wnlvolved of It itWe tIe N\ha:tevcer of chief solved. is cm find the now ill paili:ily acillal engineer thc: the prS4llented n-:1 Construio h statement conditions. rding':il of' Iathered as its the the "llperimrity ill company

such result the I :Itee n of repmisanl. 
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

is our text-book with which we went dowN' i, ad we reaiced the 

studing it attentively. We took the chief elino-i1eer's formal s

before the engineering congress, expressly prepared for the inf

of the world, as to the real nature ald essence of this proj'ect. 

could believe when the paper was prepared that it could be 

else, at any rate up to that date at least, thai the conviction

writer as to the verity of everything in it, and without going 

details of statements, one of which was brought up yesterday 

state of Ochoa Dami, we found statements like this:

It was originally planned tihat some sections of the canal in earth sh mld 

ill bottom width, withi side slopes of 1 to 1, and ill the rock elits with Ve

Tbis would a (TOM Ilate the traffic for several years; a ind tlien ivhe are

section could be increased out of the earnings, as at Suez, but at a great

cost.

Following that is this statement:

It has beenl decided to mnalke provision in the designs for the ultima

ments; an1l the following table shows the length ih of the different seel ions o

in excavation in the lake, the river San Juan, ai1 through the basins, an

dimensions of the prism for the same as now proposed.

Then follows a schedule very mu(ch increasing the section 

respects of the report of 1890. For example. the least widt

poit or the nairrowest poiit is 100 feet through the divide 

the next narrowest is 120 feet, and so to the river with 125 fee

the lake with 150 feet. We had this information before us,. an

not the least doubt inl the world it was all righit, mid arriving 

ragna we were confronted with a condition of aflairs wlwlch w

other than that which we had believed existed. VV e caime to 

thiiigs, and we fun: I there were mnliy problems of the first m

which had not been solved, and for which no meian whatever 

prepa red for solving. I lydiaulic datua were lackingt and bori

insitticien t; f'mIUlations 1ad liot been explored. We fomud 

3 had been moved between 1890 mid 1895 to a new site and the 

never been bored. We fPunIl mud bottoms in the Sam Fra cis

where these gret dams go tiat had never been n)ired aund th

was nt known. Wme fod the San Juan River had iever bei 

so far as to ascertain what was the real nature of the nteri

takenl out, and so on.

I admit that when we returned from this investigation and f

company declaring that the lake would vary 4 or 5 feet amd th

corresp ond, ti at no floods were to be apprehended, w hen we 

could read on tie banks of the river as we went alone g a 

where We stoj)ped aid made levels to determilne that the lctul 

fall might be as much as 12 or 14 feet, and at one point as im

feet, I must say that we were disconcerted with the situation

fou1d it at variance with the situation as it had been presen

in the former publications of the company. It might well Ibe o

ing thermore, virtue of the struction It entirely to We was be the toentrance done, Greytown of concession, found extremely iiadequate of careless we inthat over should fmuid the that entrance injudicious construction which engineering at that and be we Brito cnstructed, the should nothing at Harbor that entrance to of or undertake feel strictly point like the by the discouraged. virtue we to harbor a would full limit investigation. (reytown found, it.of determination the be at adherence as practically that location we I harbor, know pint, there belivewithto If wima dth
;342 NICARAGUA CANAL.

i( I I le poiIit, as macit so, perhaps, as inI all the history of our American

elw ielrin we haVe eVer srimisly attempted buiIldiiig a h

a Icvel si re. aid the Pacific Colmtes in with a surf that in 

wea telie is firmii 4 to 10 feet high. What will be the situatio

have Idn if the westerly storms or a southwesterly storm w

realize I; lmt we did realize that the eldeavor to make a ha

point ill conflict witi what might be the natural forces wa

that stotild not be lihltly- entered upon, and we did not 

believe that the proposition of the company was in any sens

We INere disciriged whieit we got back to Greyti wii, Mr

and we smio-hit llans to refhesh OUrselves. We looked at o

a111d seeml encit(oiragemitt froim the(, WN( lk done at Q( Ista Ri

tite work (dl)e at Pait:1ia, and we did derive eiicouragemnen

an1d we still Ii:141 cnfidetIce tiat, after all, when we got b

York and had a Cli itwee to explore the great mass of the com

hi ci lid ac(latitd thcrP for many years we should be 

that il so we Way. e\Ve if not, from memory anid front coiiv

w) old 11e ab)le t() g'et tile in Or1it iol) we wanted, and we spent the three

111Miths ()f the omiiller in expl iiitg that (I0estion from ev

poin t (f view. W ll, alter a wIh1ile we got a 1mo4 re encourag

it. tliat is trie, but I cal ily say now as to what our 

Greytowit. If we said alyftlhing on the subject, we could ha

the project of the comipaIny as a project was not feasible, 

o01e de( Iala it is.

Tile prJect of 1890, witich was then the project of the co

ad4m1ittelt is n14t fealsible by tile impro -veients and neces

ti41s titat tile company itself hIlas sitnCe Made in it. Th

1895 was 14ot form ulatd intil we reqnested that it be don

the (Ih:tl 2,es wilieh illd beenl sul''"ested and indicated and 

SAiry d(itinMs or altenrttionls of the estimate which im ust 

011C thiniP' we fouindi abs]ttely fixed was the total cost o

s401S tile Istlthmtiis; ad wilhe every feature of it might var

and the constru(ction, whiethier a masonry dai or a roc

whlethler w'eirs, s lui(c'es, or h leks, of different width-there w

N-ly that fxas ixed. We Pmlud the locks varied. In 1

titell 70 feet; in l 9., 4accmrdinig to the chief enlgilteer, t

feet. \We weitt back am fomil1 tlat the price for a lock 

was absolutely the saei as ine 'i) feet wide. These lock

oftell tllat you wmuld Iave to go to a rubber iantifactory 

I)ilt, aIInt 1 other thuiung-s hlad an eiually elastic tendency; an

sel ves, gitlemn, Ihave seen the facility with which the Och

be varied ill its dilleionis aii cost. \We were pllzzled 

wiici ill 190 cost 720,000 aitl in 1895 cost $970,000, a

y iirselvYes yesterday frmol the testlimly of the chief en 

the price may vary within great ralpidity from $1,000,000 to 

and uot leave Ia clear imllpressioii upon the mind of the 

general that.old wh'tat 1ta1:. he 1M)st1dealvored The Coloel wanted ilim, Vital fi''iire I I (i Xicarlarla call know " AI to LaOw. picce If to was l kntow O(ly yFon eoisilIt IAN. I Offixed did wait spw'lk wite11cr wnrk. Ca1n1a1 \WAS No;i not. tell 111c is for thlioro' mite the I pr)1Ossioimlly. ye;irs to \Whien jiidhe my,\self, view sell w any yo or a not. of to expression man will blit the Imacticable? keep 1 see I asked company do lie do) it. ships 14)ot had not of Now, Ie, think going thk a the of I holdinthese the rathboaanby anj
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

will simply read off, and it will not take two minutes, and yet t

very instructive. Ii 1873 the estimate of the Lull Expediti

$65, 750,000. In 1885 Mr. M eiiocal's estimate was $000,000. 

company's estimate of 1890 it is $65,000,100, and in the co

estimate of 1895, according to their cheapest plan of the Tola 

is $6, 750,000. The average price of that is -i ;5,(000,000, and the 

departure from it is under a million, the projects themselves 

very widely indeed. It 1885 it was to be a masonlry dam at O

arches o1 a sand foundation, aid I have seen the proposed m

constructing the masonry dam with arches in the report of t

engineer, stating that the foundations were to be put 20 feet be

surface of the water, and the water in one corner of tile river 

feet deep. That would have left for a masonry dam a found

only 4 feet in sand and with a river to be raised 60 feet high.

As to what would happen to the (lam holding water up und

conditions, we (lid not care to finvestigate. That dam was dro

the report of 1890, and a rock-filled (lam was the project; wit

running over it. Of course, these clianges year by year or se

season involve large ciiawg'es of quantities, and how is it that 

these changes of (flialitities there is no chan ge in the total, or 

noiie? It is brought about by the extremely sim ple method tha

have 25 per cent or 50 per cent more work to do and will sim

off the unit price sufficiently, you will have the same total 

had before, and it is quite evident by a continuation of that 

you can get down to a sea-level canal across that isthmus at t

cost if you simply go o1 aind make a reduction of the uinit p

meet the increase or quantities.

Weill I happen to have here one of the append ixes of the 

which is a small matter, perhaps, if you like, but it is sig'nifican

a sunnary of the water-gauege readings that in the course of t

pany's investigations were imiade there, and we fonid at Canip 

San Francisco Islamd, a short distance below the Ochioa DIam, th

watermiarks ta ken which indicated a range of 12.85 fret at tha

and at Ochoa Danm, the very point in question, there is a r

14.4 feet, and the observations were made by Mr. Biennett, of t

pany. M ir. Bennett is a very excellent and, in his way, capa

thorouglily honest fellow. He was with us all through in c

the drawings and we got very mmmucl inforimation from him. 

from him, if I an not very 1mlu'Ch iii error, we got the iifornmatio

just before the close of worli down there the company had coiin 

a ntew line of levels from Greytown to Oclioa for the purpose o

mining a discrepancy or uncertainty of I foot in the recorded l

they existed iin the company y's coipilation. The chief enine

yesterday lie (id not knMow of that, but if not, who ordered th

veyi 1g ?

I thiuk I wait to refer to one other matter-there are many 

but referred tionhem tis The is the another, sions, only use I canal Manchester of all. do mostly a Manchester of to, niot and connection is such Thisaid properly wish the for question vessels the Canal, German the to with Suez of delay comparable. passing two as a of the Caiial very navalithe the of sea. gate those of great (oniflttee, Suez is ships the The those They Canal shallow work, only G( in Kiel exerman their seas,are and work and is Canal, oceanl's both merely not cnstruction itsiavy inl is the dimiensions strictly of impossible the and anvery fromi world Gerimin inland is g-rea

intrintenone and with
814 NICARAGUA CANAL.

sions are also adapted to the seas they navigate-the Bal

G(ermain Ocean.

Mr. BENNETT. Is the summit level of the Suez Canal 

level of the Mediterranean?

Colonel Luoi)ow. It is sea level right through from the 

iiean to the Red Sea. There is no gate or lock in it. The Me

ti(le is about the same as the Caribbean tide-about a foot

The I1ed Sea tide varies somewhat; it is a closed sea a

largely to the intuiences of the winds.

Mr. BENNETT. Is the Kiel Canal a sea-level canal?

Colonel LUDLOW. It is a lock canal, but it is a sea-level 

sense; ind they introduced locks for the reason the BIaltic 

whereas the Geriman ocean, into which the other end deb

I lie mouth of the Elbe, has a considerable tide-as much a

being a short canal if they left it entirely open without gate

there would be danger at times of a tremendous current pour

it, owfing to the iiiformity of the level of the Baltic and 

variations at the Elbe end. 1 may say in that connection 

Nicaragua Canal is to be compared with any sea canal, it i

ne1 cessary to 1.ail fast in some way that oscillating and elu

level, for if that summit level is permitted to oscillate th

cetse to be conparable with any other work of that char

wrld that is either built or contemplated. These other can

a regimen, theiiy have a summit level which is maintained 

measuremeiit of inches. The statements and suggestions o

siois of the Suez Canal iii all the comipanys literature ar

mad I may say the same of the statement made by the ch

with regard to it yesterday.

Mr. BENNETTl. Is the level of the Atlantic Ocean at I

same as the level of the Pacific Ocean?

Coliel Lvmiow. Just the same. Thiat is inevitable, it 

lx 1r. E1 NET T. That is what I imagmi ed, but I understood 

what different.

C donel LvlnLow. It is a very interesting fact, if you pl

detai i the committee, that whenever there has been any 

cmect two seas there is always that question raised of a 

difference bet weei the level of one sea amd the other, and 

it slhotiil Ii ave be e so. We itsed to be told that there was 

ii level of 7,8 or 9 feet, between the Atlantic and the Pac

nime i as Ii hey aIme free oceans they must be the same leve

w ouh bini ig that alout necessarily. Aiid it must be the sa

other. It is the samie with the Red and the Mediterranean s

they had a connection outside the continents and variatio

be )c,1.

lit the nature of tigs, the mean level must be the sam

over. Gravity arranges that. Yet lNapoleon's engineer, w

ordered tleire bug yet Ihat simtall iimOrtalit, to side isthmus. cutting Ihey feared problem before ws but iby are a that The astoiiishinly aid the I')IIi by only of lbreece th sea origiIai ,1a)art little ithe 11(1 about Greeks. was Suez e neck that dur1i of gwiing aesigli ivteresting 280 Canal, 25 of ing same The feet, land or to the of:00 made pour history same an1d o(i1 ocetupation the miiles canal, through because the accusation the Suez that decided apart, same the Canal thereof and people Corinth, error Egypt measured was error wash wasas made liviiig had greof witto whth
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

width of 40 meters, about 125 feet, and to be 8 meters deep, if 

mistaken, althog(ih the inforiation is a little (bIis iire on tIat p

the original final estimate of the Suez (a iml was based ()it a 

$40,000,000, or 200,000,000 francs. Tliey red uced the dimewsio 

wards in order to get it completed, and fiaillv, at I cost of kl 1

(550,000,000 francs), they succeeded ill const iictigll o it is it wa

for use with a bottom widtli of 72 feet. and, ill 4 nder to elal ble v

pass, sidings or excavattioiis were cut in the banks where on

would enter while the other would p1iss.

They found that conditimi of tliigus illemp1)8tible wvith. d1e 1

for transit, owing to the increase il lhe tnube Of vessels 

through, so that the widening was begi mi, mal has inv 1eeni ] 

completed, except for 9 or 10-niles, so that the Siez hls a wid

meters oii the bottom, or ]21 fi-ct, 1nd tie least Ilepthi (it' t1he Su

which it hi 8s been ound vata CoiS to Ieave at all is 8. m

27.1 feet, and 1o the greater part of the leI.ithi of the cana

meters, or 29 feet 6 inclies, say, in ro mund lnil urs. Tlle avera 

transit is twenty hours, and the average m11nihiber of vessels is ;

a day. Now, all but boit 9 or 10 m1(s Wf the v;Iiml has beeli 

to the widtlI of 121 feet on the butti. a1( 1 4ormi:al phaii h

drafted and submitted to the caml adminst ration i P1aiis, 

been approved by tliei, altihoitiji not yet ordered, I U'ois tIhey 

prepared to go oil, increasiiig the ott(on with ll of Ite c.111.i in the

straight portio istoo m(ineteis, 0 Or 21 .ot, a II tle e

meters iii width.

The reason for that is simply this, tit ItotwitlIsin iidiing 

width of 120 feet, the vesst 'ls a 'I' 114 it permLiiitt to p1ss 14 wfh ot

the canal at speed. Their speICdl is limited to 10 kilomieter, or 

miles, an ihmir, aiid tley are not permitted to Jliss illiler way, 

Stalidinii g this incre8 sed die1sinf I1) 't. Whn iw(41 I vet,

one or the other, according to an avrlbitrar y arraii-nei ieit, goe

bank and the other goes by, 811d t his inlcreIsed wilelninIg 

believed by the company to 1e 1 e essarivy to p erm)litut vessels to p

other freely and without any delzy at all.

I had some oth er notes here, 'Mr. i Wha but t, I think t

only one or two ( tller points 1, cre to relir ti). 1 m1e Hie sI

on the authority of Mir. Davis that ceita ini rtio s ot thacma

1t 

or an important part, Ali. Alenocal had Hot seen, and I bclicv

be true, and yesterday 11r. Aenocal ma a Statemint with r

it, but be omitted to say, hiiwever, whether or i(I thit is 

whether or iiot there is still a portion of that camal Iiine-eithler 

of the canal or of' the embinkient line, whIiicli, wIlerever the

embankment is more important tin the cainl lime-tiat since 

adoption he has iiot inspected. If lie c('rs to IlaS\vvr that 

cate"orically, I will be g l for iiiii to mnakte a reply to it. I w

be incidentally glad to know categorically whet her mr not ihe 

e 1ilt, himself you structions but here. rendition and the 10 I 8111i or want newspapers, I understand, attacked 12 have the Wpersonally eOm- miIs, of' toare supposed an our say, on impression important. where and report, the is Mr. gone practically floor every our waste C hairimani, 81no4 relating over that of We wus herethis we thie Ar. a wient and W(' stididoiily continiuatioii to with line commit Alenocal all have oversluices of imputatiomis tli the tee that had tond las 1matter are rooml Sait of a rotite nmt. to oUrselves this mtiost before b va aios it4uIrselves ipm Ochioa 5(e14s)(d fPidaioLuiiOur the ridgechDpoi
M(f NICARAGUA CANAL.

discretion, wid1 cp]city, kind intended for no other purp

inval idlie Or cniluisiois as expressed ill our report. You 

stand the dificulty of meeting suddenly and unexpectedly 

that kindl in an enterprise of this magnitude and investe

formidable aspects. Great interests are arrayed on one 

lther, and great personages, you night almost say, have 

active part inl it, atd if there has beiI anything that is la

prese ntat ion of thIe ma1iitter by myself anid liy c( )lleaguesl 

believe We Ihiave at least donte oUr best a11 given the com

iniintoiIiation as we Iltu, and endeavored to tell volt clea

believed to be trite, 'a111, with such proof as we had to pre

was true.

On belhlalf ol myself and my colleagues I have to thank 

tee for the c(1t imimig cirtesy anid consideration, without 

dificlilt a Imatter as oral testimony oil a project of this mia

with S(o man~y details iin it of qIuantities and figures, tha

hiave I been simply impossible, and 1 be, ill belthalf of the Board to tender

our thanks to ilthe commiittee for their coisideritioni in tha

The (1H A I It' AN. ThIele is a quest ion I want to ask you 

the s lillitit level Of tih like. SIpIOse the (omill pany ldop 

that level, :111d tt thi Ille, whole calnal struicture is cmnstriict

fact in view. Suppose that the inean height of the water 

1 10 feet ?

( 4)1tel I w.The meanI'l level?

The (1 IAHZILAN. Nm), Wh .at will be the effect u pon the 

there sIllmb he a variitio olf, Say, IS inches, or 2 feet or 

thIt meall htei'ht?

Mr. I'ATT'is4 >N. Or above it?

Colonel LT Iw. A yV reduciion from the summit leve

e Iixed 4 vying r stm ate(d s, a, tea, ally red ctin in 

ft hat. Snmmit ev1l as depth1 s are inea su red, would of necessi

11w S1 '11011f reduce the deptl of navigation. The (4 !Al I iAN. ThelI, OI the sippositioit the canal pr

striicted ipont Ile basis of 'S feet of wItter relative to 11

eii Iteight wif the sirT-lce or the like, it there should be a reduction

of ., feet itl the level of Ihe lakL, nam1ly, t( 107 Ifet, the Ca

capital wyuld oly bn ada pted to a 25 -foot vessel; would 

r(sflt ?

Coloitel LI1 \w. With It redut ctiolt of 2 feet?

T Ie ('II Al .A N. ( ) f feet.

( 1 )), itm, sir. oloitel i l 1Nc w. h 

The (1ii AllxIAN. If it Valls to 107 feet inl the lake, and 

stritedl with a view to 28 feet on: a basis of I10-foot level?

Cooinel L Ui W. With a (.l11]el f 28-oOt Ilepth the l d

You wo hl be likely to ('et throuigi that chamiel womld 

about 26 feet. Ill the Suez Caal, with a soft bottomtil tey 

Imitted ste I shows I keel yoni ypm te 1Iluderstmid, Mr. '4)1)1 draws cand permit make of I'ATTE ill tohe tel dril the elsewhere? Li il vessel mtor to the H siuunit go withliin S wants thi >l sutnttittl N. thrlolugoh. is V. t a Tht: th Ofa1,1t. fixed to level 2 c()rse, leet level get is q 1ot that 3 nt ainches 11that because 11h4 I is ity, there imiuch this, (IlIestioil. :nd, of isyour the that is a terelire, cutorresponding depth allowance whatever off What ' ; lie whatev

se the dra

un

m

tC
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Mr. CORLIss. Would a, reduction of the suiiinit level of t

affect to the same extent the (minl its eiitire length? 

Colonel LUDLMw. Well, the lake a1 the river.

The CHAIIRMAN. It w nild affect every pu rt ab ove tile Oelioa 

Colonel LUDLow. They are all part of the summit level. 

tilrough the east divide on oi1e side, a ind thrmioghn the west d

the other.

Alr. PATTERS( 4N. I i11 dersto d u in your Iemarks -day 

was absolutely necessary to m1a i iitain the siimmiit level. Now, 

exactly gather votur 111e111ing 11here. Do ymO meani to 81 v thl

canal is 28 feet deep, in oler to lolt a vessel drawing 2 fet 

retaini the 28-tbot depth, and aIv reduction in the siiimmniit lev

allect the navigiatioii of a ship drawing 2; t;'et ot' water?

Colonel L u w. ( r wd (mt a]l hOse ships.

Al. PATTE ') N. NoW, iS tiall v oti i11,ea111115v, m. is there so

reason ?

Cololnel LUDLOW. No ; it is a con iii it eri al meaning in that 

just a Imere matter ifl' building sime kind o a wa tewi av the

variation woill hot an oiot t Iii Vt lin 1654ythi it V y did ]ot (a(r:1 inythiing

about your depth.

Ar. PATTEt' uSN. So i' tlerve was a sunnit level of 110 fee

deptlI of 40 feet ill the caiial th smiiiiit level migit (o dowii 5 o

aild noiPt affect tlie nlavigaItion

Colonel LUi)L( )W. No; beca iise you still Ihave water eCI (gh 

your ship.

All'. PATTEIRSON. I 11ders tand it.

Colonel Lummw. It it isgoing tohe a28-hbot avigationit mus

at all times and all seasons, so Is to peulmil a L2 ot ship to go 

If we had a 3o-fiwt iavigatnm, tihen at all times 111d all seas

arranged should be si a 28- tht vessel vt c(1ld go through , or 

destroy the integrity of the navigaliwn.

Mr. PATTEUS (>N, Wleni yoi s8y tHie ihlte.5ritv of tie s8m11 iin

must be iuiaitaimied

Odonei ljumIw. It muIst Ile m:aiutai'lel at least at a m

The idea of oir siuppo)ih(e it must be mmit ained like :1 cast-i

face, at the same height , g(ing ucither abllve nor below, is, of co

of the (pestion. We have to assimie it mt ile minmili suuin

must be maiutaiined, or iothierw ise the 2f- u0 ivi'Altoio would 

be theve, and that is a matter of how (mieh that htke is g'oiinge to

oscillate.

Mr. PATTERSON. There is one other poilli

The ChLAIkMAN. eIor( you leave this pwiit. The Ochioa 

designIIed vithl a vie\v oI aintaimmi. 1 1: I- I0o4t smtitilmtit level?

Colonel IUlnow. ii the lake.

Thi e CHAIRM AN. Now, sllppwe hOr t to be the m iea, w1:11 0 reason h

you to believe thathere will he a in iminun below that, and 

the niotThe body. that itndication, C(olmel Colonel was IM%r. extent have range sometimlies so. >ENNETT. All the LUmLow. LUDLOW. of and at the We Imealns that the oscillation evidence the lleasureil Wit (ranada minimum, hlke of We\el, solving, was we fouiiild of everywhere sir, whmia the could so, the if tit rfeason there 81l(d lake 111d g'eatest aml get somietimuies is it have is is we jst o at to any absolutely the believe vaiation? that could never onie ? SaI slibject it of get been was the 1*or1e tile vital a lake so, watermarobserved problleisimply wh and tohas art. the soiv
348 NICARAGUA CANAL.

much as 14 feet, measuriig from the lowest point we could h

the highest poilit we could hear of reliably.

The CHAIRMAN. When you speak of 110 feet being the s

there, at what season do you un(lerstalid that was ascertain

flood season or in the dry season?

SOIlnel LUDLOW. If you please, the summit level is to be 

a- datum; it does not exist as a natural phenomenon at all. 

what is mean average low level in ordinary conditions pe

about 102 or so.

Mr. ColLiss. That is under natural conditions?

Coitel uIm)w. Inder natural conditions, just as you 

anld it is quite in a state of nature. There is no artificial (

there of any kind. If you establish the summit level at 

havye to (im the water uitil it will iiever fall below 110, it 

artificial siirface, or at least a surface artitici ally mnaintai ned

imtural conditi(i it rages below tl at and 111Idoubtedly 

above it. The idea which I have had in the ti1atter is this

Ochoa Dam was co instructed

M1. PATTElS IN. It would be colistructed with a view of m

the summlit level at 110 feet?

Col(iel )L(Umow. It is so stated, definitely and distin

compall vs reports.

Air. I ATT1; IsON. Now, if the lake sliould rise 14 feet, or 

of' fect, whly, tilis surpIl1s, wht ichI raises tihe level of the lake 

meain level established by tile dai, would liI) all escape thr

weirs a11l over that ri(lge aid ilto the Atlantic?

Colonel Lu ID1w. hIlat is 70 Iiles away.

Mir. PATTERSON. WhIereas it could not fall below the 110 

wards, because the dam fixes and establishes it at 110 '!

Colonel LUoLuW. ouI cII not do it. The dmn itself, a

the comipay, is oily 105 feet. The daii is to be lmilt to 10

a.CCOr1diig to) t lie company's project is to be used Is a weir

words, water is to pour over it, adii the sill of the weir is est

the compaity's project at 105 feet.

'Mr. PATTERSEN. That neamns a mean level of 105 feet?

Col(mlel Lu) Iw. iha t meai1s the ])()jilt at wilich tile w

over the ( )chloa Dam is at a llvcl 4lf 105 fet, adl it is assum

ar i ee t ill coniiiection with other alraniements it wilt m

w\vater level if the vicility (f Ochoa I 1u at 106 feet. In o

bcE \vci tOle sill of the wiurs and thie suritiice of the water t

a depthI of 1 6it (of watErI- alVays P111111ri1, over it, ai( th

meiit will lead to a fixed slope of 4 feet upward, and that i

will hold I tle lake at 110 feet. Of cilIse, we found that in

The (iC A I RMAN. Suppose tIat condition to exist-tihat the 

of the river' as cr d ci1y this dam WEul be 4 feet. Now, the i, suppose that tlie Like riscs 14 fect above tIiati ind that tile slope 

is current woul Observed time Imahe be The Colonel (C(1111el The iincre:lsed up\vard the te ble CIIAIRMAN. % ('iA have highest of qminiimi11 LTD IL11)OW. uite ?IRI-MAN. 14 Ir'lm ''i I feet lOnl impossible Iw. andil I the ( I feet If I (c)irs( It ut At E( of' lavigeItiol sich Elot 1 some to it' thehat to believe by ISget a i's level ofliEr feet; cOrliection (ollditioll it condition E)btainied a cIld, of of boat time whiit because tihehe U exist,? by the tis lake, rivr p through could effect this cm(palingi variation lowest. tien by sE would exist, weIle. tle thie miats Mr. Ochowhat Iluicthat upwC
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

ColoIne LUDLoW. The iluctuatioln will be from that level up, 

a question of what it will ammUllt to. It will not ai louut to ax 

we found iin the nat iiral condition because the river vWill Iimve a la

channel and a much greater area to dischling throI u and .- w

mence doing So sooner, and there will he Io 1)1-ger 14 filet; blit 

4 feet or 5 feet, we do not know, we have not the iimeaIi s of asee

that. It inihzt be 6 feet.

The CIAIRMAN. Suppose it CoUld be SO, W1Hat WoUld be the p

increase ill velocity if volt do(1ile the Slope of the river from j 4 t

what would be tile correspondinig increase in the velocity 

Colonel LunL(. It may be ,1our ties or more, deptnldelnt so

upon the banks and other conditioNs. It maKes a ver-y com

thing' to work out.

Mr. Joy. Wfhat was the level Of the lake when you were th

you determine that?

Colonel LUDLoW. Yes: we noted that, and it is in the re

was 101.8, Mr. Enldicott retilds m1e.

Mr. BENNETT. U siig the Ochoa Dam as a weir for every too

mill11 Ill nill, there inust Ibe I foot more drejwi1 done oni th1e river 

Colonel LunLow. Absolutely; if you desire I deeper stivm 

to mlailita inl n)avigaltion yoll will have to deepenl it.

"Mr. BENNETT. II as a Ily provision been iade for overflow 

Pacific f-oim the lake?

ColoIel LUDLOW. iNn; none whatever.

Mr. LENNETT. CIoAId se]h a pr)V isio b (e Made?

Colonel L D LOw. Yes; buit it is not w]ise to use a ca 11al for d

You do inot want a,y cllrrVelnt ill a canal it yOU ('8cl help it. Y

a narrmw ent to ( thiom ,it ro('k, 81111 ay CIurren t increases the d

-Mr. N TT. It vollld he iiuch less distance froim the lak

Pa(ilic 1 

C((11' cl LDL(Inw. Ycs; yoU cm11 oget rid of it more q1u1ich

but it yml uImdeutale to do that you would have to nike S:lome 

provs "Iliti for it. It vnUld iiot ill the wide wold do to pass it 

the . There is dmainge'r il a ]I'll-row rock (lit. 'imd they arle 

feet \vh1, the cross Secthon ('illng-. mllv 30,00t sutj mre fPet. and if yoU

i1undertalke to take yre body of water thriow&hi that clit 

have sneih a (iTrenit vli will not he able to use it bor ships. 

direct Coilnne2ct inI with Air. Henniett's staliCeimen1t. It is qu11ite 

thlcse eon- , 1 rw, 11:! 100 feet wide 111d :0 feet d ie'p, it, 

bc foundA pctiWd tle to move a h1'&!'ge vessel faster t h11 abo)it 

hour. Sypp you hmve a cirrenit of :) miles 811 fi1ur inl thl( Ire, 

;1dltack to t0ke a ve's;-l 828nsF it; of collrse Shic is statiiI

that ewls it. I miierely USe tliit as all il1ltra1tion1 of the difl

ldert81k ig to iiautke 11 e11 lr(11 of a c(1111l.

Mr. PATTEMSON. Ar. NLeN(ocal stated o1 yesterday that in the 

at whatever sand 11(d in that of (oloiiel li1r. Colonel the Ocha water? not dam andPATTESON. bottom I found Dan that unreliable it LUDLOW. LUDLOW. they was, of it. they went that and at Now, had least IIe and No,Well, river. thatstated to not suppose the uitrustworthy the sir, the grone brings depth Is they it that of is thatuflicienitly lbollt Ii well 1 brings ended igrht such this 28 for known fret,ind slioa darn holdings ill ifr foundation wed roekrsa-md. that isn below to constructed the engineering find such that, bottom as a but rock was large wouthey
0 NICARAGUA CANAL.

that a sand f1,nidationi is an extremilely 11itdesirable t1ing to h

with. It Ias II,"1be1 Ie It witl id -u ccelle('t'1 Iy, bI It by specia

1or doing it. You cIII hlave wmrsc t11 t11.h1t-youi cdmi hlaV&e 

you like. Sind fas a certain kind (& solidity. Ill its essenc

ial '(mpct, ind sm14, i' coIiniid so as not to escape-if 

e8se(l 111) or boxed-then said to 1)il oil is much better. 

iiicoimtpressihlel, but the action upon ]ouse sand by amiyting l

Or (1uFrrenlt of water is a \vry dait(ermls h tlill2,' to iiitreduce. 

will l1ow witi tile water, 11d it' tihe s58 id be small I enough 

thlrohZ small interstices; )SO 11 sml14 baSe fm, a (1m111 is extre

siral)Ie it you can tiind antxY other.

The 1rr liat crosSes ile Nile below ( ,airuo is built 

delta '11(l rests is a Ima 81t(tr (d fia ct upl saild iiId8( mild whic

the Inottom of tlhe river at thltit point, bit extraordiiiary 

were takell aitl tile FreIcI ejigitteels failed il making the 

ces'sful 4e. It wa a V(ry N i] bibi (I i)] e task, an1 they pres

dolled it, 'Id it was later takenlp al 8 ilmlly completed an

present per'ejtved om by EnLlish ewginieeis. It is mn

wihichi practicaly is almost without a fou1lation. T hey m

exteIsive ripIl'[ppilig of stone to cover ile bo4tom. T hTere 

sive current, because tile <b(In it *l1 uitrcepts that.

The height to whi h the water is aiscd by the use of this 

w\1s put ill il innder to provide for te ifI 2t, i4i of a large po

delta, is o1*1y, it I reiiiemwhleri, a matter of 'Ibout 9 or 10 feet, 

head of water was mot huriuable; ut lhere is a head of 

f'et, '111 what are Noll gomi2,' to (10 ) nd(1er I flo)e circumstanlc

Cdm till([ rock there, even it tIt fee,. it would( he a great enco

to all egini'leer wiho 114l t') desigil a (Lil at that point. If, 

Ave are illfI4Wrmled ill thiS caSe, yi hae tthIing to 4o bu

oin the smiL wihyv \uu Ilmust bin1l on Ihe s md (l w4A) without 

.1nd if th)at (am m111st he bulilt, whly bildII( it m. let the projct 

A1. P1ATTE1ZS iN. Do you think it is prwticable to do 

sand ?

Colonel I'I)IAw. I thifk t is plraticbide, si*; lut you o

tile defects of thp fouIiidat loll ill tmal ("ase cai l be aIIn

wer(; yoi- coiIditio)ns cI not 110 Atebv 1111, a ytil yOl have to 

the dlicicyit ill y 61r I d'Itioll Iv 8 IeesSay ineieae ill 

tide 'l1i1 weithit ()f your sTileture. re is 14) (01 her way.

Mr. I nuT mTLv;. A o1- ion just at that point before you 

linle of thmillgh'11. Yoi believe witIh I le p)i4)pe'r mIteri'ial 11

c'81 c1str-11ct a (1:111 t1hire th:t wOUld hohld Ilie water all rih

Coloiel '11 W. We fiial ly came to the conlcluSionI 

practiclble, alt hiouglh it has never been done. Tile work 

precedelit Il eli niiecriit conisth11ctiml.

M~r. IPATFTEiRS uV. \olt Slpoke (* the harbor at irito. Now,,j

i114'. line tion4 from lent at against Mr. Bito? C rloll. olorne ihere a1n4d 4 of PATTER'SON. PATTESoN. to t18t Ile the deep 10 is C lit, LvLow. mel gales to4ably iihmb? fect, ?1PL(\w. a'p 1111 in wii('b Wi that 1)W I sti\t. il lowYlwl I st-1t t 8 t (1pens locality to 414) sto; is Say d() ilh cels hey its Hie ith I NOW, ac dd1i ra supps suif loss )1.4)h)ps'e ipid of what I Iy, le heie costruetlillg I i(e ]Ie to 1 is 11r sivore 4)tei the protect hle OCdII eire, Ilctlld de(4e1s )1 it there the the caln seemI
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LIIDL, W. Well, in a very imperfect way. That ma

however, is not designied as an eniiieeriwg map.

Mr. PATTERSON. W\ell, just explain it as well as you can.

Colonel Lu1tOw. Off here, observe, is a little red b1lck [illus

on the left-hald side. Ilere is a little, rocky promntory exteiid

into the Pacific just here [illitstrating]. The harbor is to be Iml

iundernieath that prolol ntory an1d ill collection with it. That extet ds

out, maybe, a (Itiarter of a mile into the sea, a couple of liunii

high, aid the company proposes, properly, to make a breakwa te

shall extend frot the end of that promoitory crosswise so as p

intercept the seas comilig ashore. Theii, to prevent the seas fr

ing in at the side, an offsliore work ill the nat ure of a jetty is p

out, somethiiig like that [illustriting], so that you have a little 

tory sticking out into the Pacific, amd tiheii yom have a ]in( o

waters coming so, leaviiig between the end of it here and the j

openilig through which vessels shall go.

Mr. PATTERSON.Now, there is a large body of red marked 

map?

Colonel LUrmow. That red thing)- is intended in a vague, r u

general way to indica te 81 1intcrior harbor which would thein 

vated out of the line of the canal. Tiat hrbor will be 

dredged out.

Mr. PATTERSON. What kind of a country is thatI Is tha

flat country ?

Colonel LUDLOw. No; there is that promiontory whicli proje

other ridgwes come dowil. It has an altitude of 150 or 200 feet.

Mr. PATTER, SoN. A lid the harboi lies betweeil the ridges?

Colonel LUDrnAW. The harbor lies between this little promion

another promontory which coites off here [ilustrating]. Ther

here and one here. 1)oth collie down to the shore aid olie pr

little, aiid there is a, bi at of straw i gi t, s: ndy beach between those tw

river, the Rio (Iiraide, comes in here [illustrat ingj. I ere th

come tuiblinig in, ma k inhg this great surf which strikes on th

The entrance is to be ma le here aml tlhe real harbr their is to 

vated out of the land. The water deepens there very rapidl

are in 10 fathoms very soon. In a mile and a halt you have go

or 27 fathoms, aniid in allothele mile you ih ave ga in edl alothier 10 

On the Atlantic coast our depths run about a fa-tlJmi to the m

in this case within 24 nijes we have 30 fithiomis, or some such 

on the Pacific. That is the reason these fearFul swells coliie ill, 

is no shallow water to dimiiiisli the roll.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would like to ask abotit what iinvestig

any, you have made as to the draft of ships at prese lit buildin

saiiin- olt the Pacific and whether or mot vo have otind the t

to be to lessen the draft of vessels, modern-built ships, and 

the gation statistics States fact, all ber, regarding and Mr. Colonel respects. beam we we the DOOLITTLE. war into tok thought tendency ?of LUDLOW. the vssels that. the the lock, canal general if It in Not it length the was the Vll, would thnm in lock (imensimns a construction depth mater 1 annd answer can were engineeri)g' width ]lot wh wide of all ich say; of of large reitiremenits. rather euuouigh shipbuilding tihle pohit we vessels, catal mladle aflecte(d of to view. as very admit but is 4 tlihe uite As an we little As c the a inc

usmisumI 
W52 NICARAGUA CANAL.

Cioloiel Luhow. Ii eili, width, and depth. It is found 

vessels are imnore (cciomical carriers than small ones.

.Mr. Dooium LiEi.v. But I say, are not shipbuilders everyw

coist riict ]()Il Of the ships n10w sisling a Ilatter floor, a flat bot

Colonel LuI)ow. Less dead risc, that is true, but withou

ilg the draft.

-11r. I)oMLATTLE. I)o yo know what is the average dra

4,000-toil ci rg slteamcr, al IE oglish1-bililt vessel?

Colonel Li'l)ow. I do no)t reiimembr, but I should thi

riane from 19 to 25 feet.

Ir. I'OLT'iTE. I tihiiik it ranges fiol 19 to 22 feet.

Co0iel LuI) LO()W. Well, your inlormation o that point 

better than mi lie.

Mr. 1)()IATTIE. I Imeani (f cmiise, la(leni dowii to the ma

C(odoel I 1)11) W. W we ere tiuite coitenlt ill that respec

the project o hc comipaly ald accp't4 Ileir dIepth f 28 an

'Al r. I1 LE. I c'uld tell you oF ' (w 3 ilies ()t some 16 t

to the line, like the (leiiugle Lime and similar lies, where 

not to exceedI 23 feet.

C(4oliel Lunm wv. I saw a vessel drawing 19 feet 6 iches 

make heavy weather of' it, although there are 28 feet of w

SiUz.

-Ir. o liss. 1 vould like to ask (oe question before yo

In making the pI is 1 & the 1oard, if I niderstaind ci riectl

posed to malita in a e ve1 of 110 feet at the lake, and to ma

titles a depti ill the caial of 30 fWet?

C lmnel Lom w. NVe accc)tcd I lie compan y's data inl th

MI. (oiciss. YXu miuldhrstind me. li perfectilig' yo

makingg the extelI"itln; yOl deeimed inecss;ary, did not ymu )ll 

a basis of a meai level of the lake of 110 feet and the d

c(ml 81 of :00 feet 

Colonel LiesLw. es

Air. (imLISS. That is what I understauid.

Cohmel I bLw. Aml we 16111weid tlat, believiiig' it wa

j

be'amse tlie cmipan:yv anhoeiliced its iinteiou B of regarding 

final projwet, alnd we ha1d 11ie a1t1or-ity ofl the ciel elgil

l1Il1er tliee ill whiichi. with s(I lle exceplion1, "):) feet is carri

Alr. 4 5. Bnt il view of the develt)lmielts of wider 

deper clldr ft vessels yon nilae these r1enuiiiiieiidatioiis, dednmi

5ary if the j v s to Joe miiler'ikeli

Old1ne 1ui . \\We f th hht so. I'llat was oUr judgiie

view ol the 'llez ('tz l data we look t lie trIitihle to ascertai

Mer wet le on iud tHlev l1(l iuualde that very cmisidcrable 

we didl it, int hecu se we believed it was extravagalilt, l but 

1wlievedl it (lesirta le.

Mi\r. iv. I want to ask a question wlihi I fin-'54t to ask 

weri when beliv Yom Colonel ir. AIr.Ctlnel say i i we tit le-e Joy. the were Iir at Well, slil1l1t b b1 wi sour(yetiymyo. .t here. Ir. lchl herie W. tie TI l tie level 4id I'hlelle 4)le level gt simnit yo' of hulnIldrelI inormIlatioU is of yu tile o)bt:1iii 110 the of sIiiuaiiiit lake lake. tht d ijid e was lake vir level. One 101 iii had firimiatiin anid and been a eighit-teifractiofound-as t
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Colonel LUDLOW. I will read front the report what we pw

regard to that:

i\Ir. JOY. I noticed the statement, but I did not know wh

gave the source. Was your information derived from individ

front a variety of things Of course you could not see the wate

below the level of the lake.

Colonel LUDLOw. That comes under the general head ot 

level. At the time of the gaugiug at Fort Saii Carlos, where th

leaves the lake and where we were detained two days, we tried t

good use of our time, and we made two gaugiiigs there and 

galted the lake bottom and also the Rio Frio, which comes in th

might interfere with the work. We say in our report:

In the report of 1890 the discharge from La ke Nicaragua at its lowest stag

to be 11 J,90 cubic feet per second, and Colonel Childs i <ioteda a authori

estital e of high-w biater discharge of 1W,059 cubic feet per second. With th

:1 calculation is llade, using the numerical mean of the two resIlts to sh

there \ ill be a much vlarer water supply i han required for canal purposes. 

data and the method employed in this calculation are incorrect.

In Appendix C(, are given the results of all the galtging of the San Juan 1iv\er of

which the board has 1been able to bind record. They conusist of a >eries oft g

made at different points along the river by Colonel Clh ild> in 1551; of a 'dim

iliade 1y Comiinanuder Lull in 181: o t a single gatiging made iyi tile canal 

in 1855, and of two gamgilgs made by the board ill IN9--I.

All the ineasureinents of the discharge of Lake Nicaragua have been ma d

st.gt, but tone at the lowest. The galtgilmgs of Lull and Childs at this poi

as nearly as call be expected of gaill igs made hurriediv and at such a 1I 

of time. The stage of the lake at the time of Ltill's galling, 102.2 fe

ilean tide, has been erroneously accepted by the company as extreme low 

At the time the gall ging at Fort San Carlos was made by the board, i v 2

the stage was 101.8 feet, and the measured discharge 9,120 cubic feet per 

which accords very well with the results of Childs and Lill]. A lower sta

this, however, Ilas been of record more than twenty years. I)n the 2d of M

aeordinig to L1u1'Fs profile, the lake was 10O.S7 feet above mean tide. St

stages have been reported. The otlicers of the Victoria, a steamnboat ply in g 

N icargit showed to the engineers of the canal colupany a low-water lar

el1Vati In was 9 fet; f. this was confirmed by residents at the head o

ILagos4n, near the muth of the Tipitapa, River at the head of Lakhe Nica rag

pointed out a ledge of rock extending across the river which has been bare 

va 11ou is 9 8.5 feet. The very lowest stage kiown1, observed at Graiada, on 

side'of the lake, is reported by Mr. William Klimie, an Engilsh ii civil le

has resided inl Nicaragua for many years. Mr. Climie reports a stage of 

above mean low tide.

Of course the information is extremely scanty, quite insufficie

that is what we got.

Mir. No NAN. I would like to refer to the sand foundation

stated it could be utilized by boxing 0

Colonel LUJLOW. I stated if you had sand packed and con t

some way it was as good to build upon as anything else.

"4r. NOONAN. What would you put upon that sand, cmncrete o

Colonel LUDLOW. Well, I would work pretty hard to see it 

not linid some bottom in there.

Alr. No )NAN. But assuming you had only a sand bottom ? jeopardize be if using means or the Air. you reduced a 'oloiel construction very NOONAN. careful N use can c-23 expensive LUDLOW. the plenty be so the provided methods safety If period, work of youand You rock of put would by the as we dangerous could withwhich you thewhole coudnot build rock are due the be construction get building, thing; precaution, very next a excessive the masonry dam seriously to and and the built. tloodshe damn using sand particularly -Board endangerel there, cani plenty there, believ

be but draof wii
t)- NICARAGUA CANAL.

Colonel LUDLow. It works this way: You cal check 

water through sand it' you make it go through eiioigh san

words if yol make your dam long en ough up and dowui 

estimate 900 feet will be niecessaryfor that purpose-the fr

wat er passimng through the Stand that tlIg distalnce will che

The (1l)m1 will leak largely, there is 11 doubt. That is the f

to atll of those dauims f4 funded ol saud. The water seeps t

does 1it g)o tlrouglh with amy force, and if you can get en

there von can get tlie dailm built. We are satisfied of that.

Mr. Nfr NAN. If the sand has sufficient deisity as compa

weight, it is safe!

Colniel bi w. The sand per se is hicompressible. It 

of i ncoimipi-essible atoms, mid wheii you get it in a compac

Alr. NOONAN. 00 yVo U exclude the water ?

Colonel L'iNtiw. Of course that sand is going to be in 

You ca]) keep tile water fromi passilig through that sand with 

ity as to carry the s211d out, well and good; but, as a matt

is ;! little di ficult; it is extremely difficult to determine 

th e. effect 1nii the Ittim ()f that lit head of water--60 or 70 

YOU 01Ce "el it there. We kiiow very little about it. It m

water wohildI fiid some place in the banks where it would b

thrmoiuighl under I hat head, and of that we do not know. It w

the mIost careful investigation.

31. NOONAN. You1 peSclt the thiiig as a probleI eiiti

question aioit the s aud foiundation 

C_'4 . el I'L(. We (e"t to tile point of saying we coul

say we think it cII be (lone, although it has never beeni d

The ( 'AMlUlA N. What would be the effect t)pO this dam 

of It o"( rock, prv ided Ole water was permitted to pour ov

colaite thr ugh i ii ill cml.)iderable quantity upoiin the lower level of the

daiu uplml 1his lImiudhatioii of saud; what would be the tende

11U1dermiin i11 aml detroyin" the colesioln?

Colonel LA' Wx vV. It is imiipiestioned that the action of 

th!at pmi it would h1vye to he watched w ith great care, an 

niaterils 10 supply waste or injury must be om hnid read

dlite Ipplicltion. ( )ne pr-cl1utionl is in illaking. the slope 

the m;at er S ' h lope oft seusibly parallel with the bottom so as iiot to

have a plmngiig action. That must be avoided.

ThIe CIAI1AN. Is it practical to have that slope so that 

4'0101l Lum vow. We think it can be done.

Tile ('1 AlMAN. Do yOU thiiik it cali be donie upo the h

tle waltci pOliIIIg OVeri t he dam

C 'oloiiel L Ult 'im. No, sir; I beg your pardon there. Th

o tlie wat e r throligih it I was coisiderig. The hoard 

clear ,t1a in) w at -i w Iltifevvir should be permitted to pass ov

1 iirt s1'r, run works to dain. that est e(Iase The undertake piece anltly over daiiare clievc4 board It wlere\vUr of followed. is will it, all all rouk s anl has alnytlhing agree alt yi loose ack no with that cilI ,,entlemiie 1d doubt o I maierial not that (t, which llappnils of hiib poiult. the ]lot the whmtever boily it of think to kind. as thehaindle, rock-fill very in of ayiv destruction contact. it the The extended would egiiieer and dam dam water the be and It1but of experience imist passage is extremely ill will permit the not the not attadaiuthe co
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

dam it deals wNiti att that point at all. It is nothing 1utt :ni iti

piece ()f rotk, with no otlier resistance to the action of the wa

its ov1N w'eigohit, and to suich an extent as it mny be jammiied ag

ad joining picce. Furthermore, the weight or these bloks is 

by virtue of the flct that they are belov the surfice of the w

.partially sunimerged , aind to that extent their actual weiglit is 

A block of stone which weighs 5 tons inl the air does not we

under water. You have to reduce the weight by the amount 

feet of wa ter it displaces.

I may say with regaird to that, mtftier grave doubt int'Odl4c

It is prposed, )f c((iuse, to build this dam out of the ii:iterial 

taken from the east divide, a perfectly rat ional prijPosition. It 

yet to be actually certilied as to whether the r ck out ()f the ea

call )ie gottell out and11 Imidled iin suflicient mass so ymOt tati 

CI u01g11hi stones to It1uble in therm. Ait the entrance to tle S iit

at Port Said they use great blocks of 22 t 015 4)C solid cmicrete

action of tie s e on those blocks-it is mily a ino1raIte se

Mlediterraneaii-carries them oft at the rate of aPout thirly o

year. So they have to keep a constant sitpply Imr the jett

extends ifi the i\editerraneani.

Now, you waNlt to get blocks of that kind out foir that -Pu

east divide, bP)th for Greytown harbor and the Och4 a a im. T

not be too large, and(1 whether this curious volcanic rock, which 

sorts (Pf characteristics, most unexpected, if you like, aid 

wl% i4hi iS soft, is possible to be obtained in such nisses, we d14) n

Suippose y-oiu get that riock out of the cast divide mail Ipt 

Ochoa Dam, mid under the action (P the air anid wvatt'r thi 'is 

rock begins to deconlJpose and run to miuid '! T -e\\" where are 

so to) speak. Thes contingencies we cohl1 no4t IIIISwVcIr. We 

the iiiforation to dcli with them at all.

Mr. 1\11 L' I . There is one question I would like to ash the Coli iell

Just tou1 personal in1fm'Pization. Takiig into ctisideration your 

gation )f this enterprise and the great benefit it wVOLIl be to th

ican nation, or the Amierican nations and coinnierce, do yo u i

the mINvesti ga14tiIl to h tave pr)gVres-sed fiar enolubgh to W t1alt thie 

I i4)i by the Gvernment of the right of way and concession an1d 

into ngotiat imis for the ultimate construetion of it and cmitrol 

the ITnited St.ates (Government?

4louiel LUDLOW. Do I believe it would be Wise to enter in

tizatloll S within those twX'o States to acquire this colncesSion ?

MI. Cojzi~is S. To obtain the right to construct the cmal 

UTT ited States (Govei'niient.

colonel l LiEOW. I should think that it imighit be a veiy wiOse 

ti4P to let it iahe 1hat ionn. That is not ano engineering quest

AiNIr. Pt:TE1StN. I is n 4 a l en gine(cerin Ig' quIlestion.

C( ohiel Lt I4)w. It is more a political question'

ernneiit, maintain cared hieai'd (io1 M'r. Alr. Air. MiColonel toChqLlSS. JOY. thie CORLISS. J4 l Y. a chief LUIDLOw. LiLPw.ill 1 cali A I your submit dipmlhiatic al ellgincer The judgiient, I 1 lhere realize It question 1 that 414) is should sa1y not a it question. is political is, a have hk it is diplomatic but now expires simply this I how right question, did whether ill to the not constritct question. 1899. present know andthe andwe wViethier United cincssion have not Stathe 
o56 NICARAGUA CANAL.

n thI\at a'] all. hell we examined tie construction of 

Iarhoi we igomred tle falct the line we proposed was ove

chiiied to be the 1ollilairy, because we did not believe 

slmild Ibe c In idled ill tiat connection at all. The cross

)iOildary does ot amount to a row of pins In comparisO

54'ri1s effect on tiie Very formidable constrCtion Of tlt ha

The 'l CHAIRMAN. There is a question which I wmuld like to 

I thil k would be eiitirely leg'itiiate f6r you to answer. 

wee n icu~go egaedi your duties, whiat did yout 

\V e'Q111 IC1d Idlla eciilj('Q(1 inlX 11 1itC ,WUt(i1 '7l.(IS'V 

Siiythling, with references to) tihe feelilog of tile people W1hom1 y

conact with respecting the G overnmeiit of the Un11ild Stha

pait ig actively, and peIlhaps in the sense 4) c5trol, ill te c

of this work 

Col'0e L. I do not tiink, really, sir, we hId alIy 

that question. I (to not remember that We had. I will sa

tia 1 tan 11 uti oitics treated 11s witl extreme courtesy.

The (hA 1 IAN. o fouiid nothing' but friendly feelinie"

(' lonel ic1))w. Noth i g(t at all but friendly assLirances 

t it's and welr(Aome.

'ThIle Cll AIIAN. And they manifested tit interest ill Hie 

didt thley 

(olel L1)t w. Th-ey did liinifest mn interest to this e

selil down t wo ('c1miissioLers to meet 11s, who were specially 

to Iiect us at the wharf -. 1111 extend all facilities that they 

they uave Us tile use of tile State telegraph.

T 1e ( '1I AIRAIAN. Allot they knew you wC1C tlee, of V0rliiS

iiig. I te I Un1ited States Government!

( (11011nl Li )LOW. Iley kew ull' errand, l1i(1 and we Were 

alt IoIig1h not 1ormially accredite(l to the Governimeiut it ally 

110t 1s with I Slliute 11 g.unlIs, and we exc angred courtesie

1111 I hat wds (oIle all ile way lipi the river by botli garriso

at Al a ta gia.

Air. NVANGER. Andill tit'V kliew your blisiness there 'las il

wI Ith the pro ejected c-' Ill

44)miiel LUI sir. , SI; the commissioner's Were se 

miueet its 1or. tilat purpose. It was quite well kiiowii ill N

1' .il 'd to ()t111 coming because the company were iiak'ilIl' 

to) recivei us.

ThIi CIIA i-i AN. And4 yoi ai'e satisfied y 4ti were fa vontal 

( '1411cl Lu miow. A absolutely; there Was I1o salde of a di

ait p0mini. ()ii tile contrary. lere were a few drniIlen 

lie Yaiikees at a few pllaces, dild We lmd to look out for fea

them lk i l 10 s me Id our party, blit

All'. N (HN.AN. Ir4bably it was th1e in llueue c of Wvlisky

('ome1 Luimow. These comnmissioners did notity 1s at 

lwiore we started nfit ()ii or quest, that We could not go ;1114

(c solely beeli s Ii .Ili. The we5U said 'ol(nlo Al 'Is ('hA \VV iENoCA. egnes here STATEMENT did wit I NMAN the to-day n(t I idea to pdy d() had lIF.(f 11(1t attention OF been carryin. tlhink MR. eocal). stated A.o I ti G. need that. le iin IlaVe MENOCAL-Eesiumecanal previous to yoU We say down ay considered aN testimonythat hiNil" thiulg. st y
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

gone over it in my original written statement and previous te

before the conunittee. I do not know that I have anything to a

I will be glad to answer any questions frm you or any memb

committee. As to the quest ion put by Colonel Ludlow, whethe

been over these hills personally, I should answerColonel LUDLOW. That was not my question.

Mr. i1\EN( OCAL. I explored that region, I pointed out on ever

those MIlls where enbankmients should be built, amd put t lie e

there to work deveOiping the topography. Its development wa

conCluded about 1891. 1 was rearra ii gin g the liiie of the enibam

just, before I left, in order to conform it to the topograiphy as d

by theengineers, and soie slight changes were Ilumde from on

anot her 'i order to get a better location, an(d 11 will add that si

litml development of the topography by the engineers I have 

over file liiie finally 14Jcated Fver those hills, but I have been ov

individllal hill, ad I selected the line of embankiments.

(01oliel LiDLOW. Now as to the other, if you please.

Mr. 11 DOOLITTLE. You need answer only questions 1) t tf) you by tie

con illittee.

Mr. WANGEu. I adopt the questioll.

Alr. MIENOCAL. If he refers to the San Carlosregion, I have 

the San Carlhs aInd all those hills, comm ii iencin g ii IS73 and a ga in iM

1855. I have examined that region and those hills in the valle

Stnil CarL s, and placed enlCgi neers there to develop) the topograp

froi the development of the enineers the embankmient line 

down. Siaee that eilbalnkmlielt line was laid down I have 

)Ver the line myself. There was no necessity f)r Iy doliig s

is a statement of the facts. I selected the line for the einiml

mver those hills, a1 id while there imay have beei sligh t clan-ge

Iinal Ioetion of these embankients from one hill to atwther-

strikes me as rther immaterial, as I have beei mver the "rotun

1ot, of it.

Now, Ihis board seems to admit the pramtieability of the cana

down by the cmIIpaiiy's plans with some Imodiicat ions otN which w

a green entirely, hIt I Iave treated those questions 1 iny written statement. Thle 1julestiOil 8s to how much111 You call doa piece 410 WOr

c

he settled wily by bil's from different contractors who may 

remly to do the work.

Mr. WANER. Viat is the basis for tile belief that rock caIn 

out il 1lck s of s1 flicient size from the cut ill the east divide to 

piers at G(reytown and Ochoa Dain ?

Mr. MENOCAl. From the fiact that similar work has been d

great Imi' parts of the world and is nmow being (nie in the 

States. There is O doubt You "i(ll 'et hirg'e bocks 4f rok if 

the proper applianices to doh it with.

Ailr. W' NG ER. Is it frm borinogs, or what for1 of iivesti ga 1

p1)r readl believe 1lreakwater, of character question 31r. M the ticuiihar the MENOCAL. MENOCAL. WANGER. bottom there ?reipmrt of rock the is 1mid of Oed plenty of rock Yes, From the also Borings the canal iii greologist for sir. of' the sight rockhave the borino's at about at lidiard construction been in thewhichh regard enough 1,000 made numerous have feet to there. fo ofthe from beenthe rapids, the quality Colonel constrictiocarried dam. mie and to of1a Is Lutohe otro
358 NICARAGUA CANAL.

of the geologist, we have come to the conclusion that we 

cient amiomit of rock there for the construction of the d

break water, and that it can be obtained in blocks of the s

for the work.

The ('HAIRMAN. Did you find any imperfect rock by tho

Alr. 'AlENOCAL. Yes, sir; some of the rock is harder tlian 

is 11ot quite uniformu, but we believe there is stifficient hard 

WOrks propose(.

T hlie ('11AIRMAN. Al ighlt ]lot that rock turn out to be iot 

Vxpo~sire'

Al r. M EN )CAL. It is possible for i portion of it. Wh

cfissitfile us soft may turn out to be of inferior g ital ity 

struction of this work, but we believe there is snticient 

deal mi 0re t11n is needed to construct the works we propos

Ar. H1ENNETT. Alr. Chairman, I move we adjourn.

Alir. .1 V. I ask the privilege of live or tell ininites' lieari

I lubba rd at our next meeting.

Theretipon the committee adjourned.

NVEDNESDA Y, 31

P

Thte Committee n InterstaIte and Forei ei (Iommierce t

l1on. Williamii l'. Ilepburn in the chair.

Al v. I ) L ri IE. Ar. Chairman '111( o-entlemeln of tile 

Govenior AlcCck)orklf,f 'West Virginiil iIrlhs killdlycOIiSe itted to 

here '11)4d (liseliss rtain phises of' tile Nicaragutaain C ail 

ile CHAI1VIAN. The commiittee \6i11 be pleased to Iieari 

STATEMENT OF GOVERNOR WILLIAM A. M'CORKLE

VIRGINIA.

(Gover'nor AlacCorkle said

Al1. ('h AI 181AN AND ('TENTLEMEN 4iF TE, (OMMTTEE: 

verv ilmiich the courtesy of the 'omiinittee 111(1 will miia ke il

(is 00PICISO N's its silbjeet-ilmatter will allow ine to). I till ver

th'it tile comiiniittee, ill ilot cninimsg me ill referetcee to ti

Im e '11141 tile section I represent 1 Very Igreat fivor. I will 

discussion t -day )to the relation which tile h io River Va

tle Nic:lraiai Clanall iln reference to the prodeiction of c

I :i tie'lar attention ha11.1. been directed to this especiall s111j

very hid to a pp.eciate its vast i11po14tanice to the people o

S 4s. A verV PeC1 ]i:ir thing is taking place upon the 

'T1h4' 1 ':iiic ('oast of t1hv Unite(] St rates, as well as 1114 Wes

so4lther-1e ad 'cet ral Aimierica, is almost dominated 1y 

A this Sou Valley, t1hiro&gh1 give the iMIr4' S The (i Thi''i'e oV41or I N c4l), herii Ily im cheaply icaragLiau CAIRMAN. itter than the reasoiis is whel ando AIACCORK constriicI (d by by p)otiol Centrial fact, Canal eve'v 1or mny the By this other Appihichi1ni 1 either imn (& as b151hel LE. America, t proposition. the the Greatof section call8 Yes, the Iritain IUlnit4'd Ohio of sir. Nicaragmiua m. or coal, of coal and its the States thie This, (le Mississippi chain. eitherpendlei West worll. of which icies Canl. lyig& col om I fi [)(ties irnish the se, will valeys, largelyy cm call I Pacibe wvi
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

the Ohio Valley. In the mere matter of coal the benefit to 

Valley will be incalculable. My liinited time will not allow m

a cursory discussion, even of coal. The advantages to the Oh

in its relation to its very multitudinous products will not be d

The highest development of the Appalachian coal chain takes 

West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky, and from this gr

of coal will come in the future the great bulk of supply of th

Within the Appalachiai chain there are about (4,000 smpiare 

coal. The cuttings miade by erosion and by the various ag

nature have adapted this coal to easy mining and transporta

greater extent than any other coal of commerce. ThIe coal f

of the Appalmliani coal field Iihas a deposit, which, in the ig

will amount to 9,000 feet, and inl this field there are more 

distinct work able coal measures.

The Appalachian field furnishes about two-thirds of the o

bitiliOlius coal ini this country 'Ind all but 4. per cent of 

production of coke. The vastness of the coal trade of this 

ha rdly a lpreciated. Just in one comparatively small district a

Pittsburg district, we have $510,000 ,000 i coal investments. T

of the c a1 output last year inl this country amounted to 1" '10, 

This great Appalachian field is about 000 miles ill leng-th a

50 to 180 miles ill width, and extends from iiOrtliern Penisyl

miidle Alabama. It embraces the Ohio Valley, western Penns

Ohio, West Virgi ia. eastern Kentucky, id the Elkhorn d

Virgin ia. This area embraces the largest and best parts of th

lacliian coal field.

I generally use West Virginia as an illistration because th

has withifi its bord ers a greater amount of tle Ajpp Cala ci'a c

t hai aly other State. It has more that 8O per cent of the to

minous areas of Ohio And Pemisylvamia combined. It has m

Pensyl vania alone and 2,000 square miles more tan Kentu

Tennessee combined.

In Kentucky the coal-bearing_ rocks within this field have a t

averaging 2,000 feet, and thereare from eigt to ten mer)hat a

within her boindaries, and all are splendid coals, Kentucky lav

the Illinois and the true Appalachian coals.

Mr. BIENNETT. You sp)Oke a moment a go about the strat

Appalachiain coal chain; you said somiethingie about 2,000 feet

(1o you imeani

Governor AACCORKLE. I mean the coal-hearing formations 

tucky.

Mr. BENNETT. Is that in direct depth

Governor MACCORKLE. That is not always the absolute de

Mr. RENNETT. What depth is the deepest vein you know 

Appalachian mine region ?

Governor M ACCORKLE. The good merclianitable coal inl th

lachijan ter Kentucky, low West are ber Governor Mr. above more, is the of Virginia BENNETT. extreme, instances coal coal ground but and MACCORKLE. in elhain te there Maryland, but drain To and majority Appalachian averages obtains what are in themselves. the very and Various depth of mountain in fewrom the sveral a coal beow minesshaft number depths. 34- The clain side. places to mines. the inl 11 veins of ?the Throughout earth's The feet. places in Appalaciain In Pennsylvaniainl mines Pennsyl Of, the surface in course, West grat iii Kentua van(1o cv
NICARAGUA CANAL.

of instances lie uniform and level. This causes our mini

mii rvelously cheapj) ill this great coal field. For instance, ii

N va Sc tia. British America, and in a number of the We

:1111 ill Egld tiey "re compelled to burrow great dista

g'11111 inl order to get the coal. In many instances in En

are 2000 feet ini the ground. This is not the case in the A

.oAl chainl.

On the bsis that the Ohio Valley has the best an1d cheap

(te w \rl1. it should supply tile g(reaitest, part ol thie ii icrPeas

the world's demands. The coals of this coal hield are the g

hest frma tiois. It is true the Western coatls are fair co

piirpses, but in matters relating to steam raising' and i

innie of the Western veins of coal are at all conIiparable to 

the A ppilachian field. In miaiiy of the States of the Wes

1)i ) veills fit' co l, but tile highest development as to qual

seem iin tile West. All of the Western coa(1 fields are 1m4or

mie thain our EAstern or Appilachiniii coals, and none of 

hle purity of the last-named coals. The Vailcouver Islain

ite best, All] (rica coals supplying tle Pacific market, and

Japanese coals, about all of the coals imported and ill 

the Ia'itic ( oast are froin the British possessios. T

IUtited Shtes coais, possibly exceptig XWashington co'ls, c

pete wi th I ie coals of the I ritish piIossessions. This resu

circumstances: First, the quality of the ca8 is nlot so go

the hig-h rite of railroaid trainsportation in the West, ani1d lo

froimi poiit f )' production to point ot consi ullmpt ionl.

'Ihe Vanc (ver Isiand coals are fair coals, 4and wIhile they 

ailly better timn fite Western coals, they 1elo1g' to tile rece

111:11ios. 'This Is fle case With nearly all of the Western c

are lot ,enra11y good steamt-raisiniiO coils, bcaus of the 

4Ia'lice o) sulplr and ash, anid because ofI their absolute de

l)oilerS 'lnld fire boxes 81n(d of all appliances ill which thley a

1Th4' coail of Vancouver Islaiid , I5 I said befiire, is good c

comparable to our prUodlict. For instance, take the Well

which is conidered the best oi1 the Pacific (Coast, anld copla

West Vir'inia coal. i I fle Wellington coal the IIixed carb

volatile matter, 34 ; water, 2.05; ash, '.11. Now, compa

EL ( a rdei cls o t West Virlini a. fixed 4carboil of tie iIat

'76.2,; volatile matter, 19.25; ash, :.02; wIter, 0.98.

Thus you will see, by a simple comllpirisoli oft ai1ayses, t

sleliority 4d' tlie A pplliimi coals over1 the best colis of 

ILshla11. Tles( hatter co'ls are confidently relied upo, 

level melit is complete((, to CO1ntI'i-l 1ll the Western 

.111soltll A illerical. illclludinlf Colltral l 

The Western coals 're gvenrally brown cols or 1ignitOS, n

4)ped into i(ooa(I l:11111 i no sense of the word couIp are either for

4omite They easily, s1m1s tIieseb1 the inmlr it Inhe eqlal as Splelli(I the cols, (d hv yet world : Illoney ][d Western 11 of none toohe s) our can 8 c'o)1s. or dr.1 1mu1ch O) have have States overland IOr l.)endid It makhe forces wa1erC been coohim' been Thi'ey transportation then AppiIaclhian discovered biurmiluo( spent and railroad are valuable purposes ar( not ill of particles transportation prelmrilig the which 8 is coals. woO(y For or the true the steam-raisig make great t hmigl vaIrios texture. 'Ipplial(ies ca'hboniferoluthese question, compare t 1ses ihe coals scrThpufoa
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

transportation. Iii every in stance the coals which I Iave water f 

tatioi (an 1e marketed at very m chle ieiper rates. The water t

tatiin would average about one-fifth per toil per mile the co

railrJad tinsprtatioI. The river traiisportaition and water t

tatinm, for instance the transportation un the Ohio from Pitt

New Orleans is about one-twentieth of a cent per toil per mile. 

the coals of Colorado, which are perhaps the best coals in the W

nut readily available for use on the Pacifie Coast hecanuse of t

c st of transpo rtatimn. So it is with tie cials of' Washiingto

are very good coads, but iiniless they are inim tediately i t 1'h 

tile cost, of trnilsportationl is too high to mnake themli 8 available 

these puirposes. The State of Wasliington, outside 4f the A pp

coal chiiii, is tie oily Iiope of successful competition with IBri t

In Texos tiere is a vast amount of col, anld s1 ch is tie I(se 

ilexico, Imt these. coals are iot likely to compete with tie A pp

coals. Generahiy speakil te coals of these States, and, as I have said

before, of prinLlcipally the whole West, are the brown cmals mo

apprmiacling lignites.

Then, as a matter of fact, the only coals which call compe

Pacific ('oist with the Britisi Isles, Atistraln, alld lritisli A

s, 'a 111d tlhe J;ipaese Coals are the coals of the A ppal]chim

n111d the question is how to supply the Pacific Coast with liese 

cent, coals.

The itiitial price of coal in this country is less tian ii 

country. It is fri-om (10 to 85 cents per toll at tiie mines ill tie 

chian mi l hel(, the averagoe price per ton at tihle mines iin W

inia in 189I1 bein 75 cents, the cheapest iin tlie worl1. This a

$1.24 in (U dorado, -2.33 in Wash ington, 93 cents in Alala m

against about 1.87 per toil in Belgium, ill Japan, foim 

1.25 in New South \ Wales, aid from $1.4 5 to 2.25 i Grt 

It will be understood from this siateinment thlt only cha p tra

tio is neded tor tie coals of the Appalacliian coal field to cm

coal (o)stimption of the Pacilic Coast.

E11 J]hauind is a great t producer of ewil anid puts out about I S

tons per yeair as against aboUt 170,000,000 ill thie I'iited Stat

I oited States produces about 30 per cent of all the coal of th

and it is absolutely necessary f r our devel( 9011tetit il tlhe prO 

of coals that we takh:e chlarg'e of, the miiar1kets of the Pacific C

of South and Central America, M\exico, anuud tile \e\st findies

Eritain exported 33,000,000 toils of coal as against tnly ab ut 

tolls of hitumiiIous coal exIOrted froim the luitel States 

Engo-ini sendls about 200,000 tils toli the Pacific 4'o Pst, midi abot

8801,000 to Brazil, 750,000 to the A1rgrejitiine Republic, 310,000 

811(nd 4-1,000 to Peri.

Englaut 4.d ships every year to these latter Markets 2,511,004

coal. expression proper, Aimerican which 185,000,0(I Mr. Governor Governor Mr. Governor ir. BENINETT. BENNIET. BENNETT. mine Wales, mines include tois'? from MACCORKT iIACCORKLE. iMACCoRKLE. and ?185,000,000 You WhXlen Then ? Scotland. did E. they you not No, As No, spoke to take are I sir;. 188,000,000 have not illfI by meant Britisi, included used that toils t it the lie -what ab've, Ausi in of British coal. the teri-torv I idi ha total llea Island

md 4
NICARAGUA CANAL.

Tbis country shoul cmitrol these markets for the simple 

reitson that ve are niearer to them, and our relations are in 

of the word closer than in Great Britain. The coals of Sou

so far as they Live been developed, do iiot show their ab

(e5s1f1 y compete with the Appalachin coals. Tile coals of 

lie o Col ombia are fairly good, some of them very good, bu

tcr of tct they will not be able to compete With ours. In 

at oIle time was heralded as a great coal-producing State, l

Iigjat ions have not carried out the ideas which weie r once con

vi'ngiwe the coad. The veins are tiin anid the coal not 

4jua li ty. ijld cml not, compete, or only to a very small exten

cals. Such is I ie case With Mexico. There sem to be 

coals iin Alaska, imt as yet little is known about them.

Alr. )OnLITFTLE. Would not the cheap coals cominlrg t

coaima stinidate manuiifacture on the Pacific Coast, .1n d w

sI imulate imimnensely the iing interests of the country?

G oven lop Al M ( oR K LE. I mmiewsely. The trouble is, the 1acijli Coast

is killed as a miaiufactiring section by reason o4f the high p

Six dolhirs to -4 is too high for filel.

The lI'acifie ( Coast should be one of the great manufactur

of the world. It, has splendid minerals, inagniificent fibre

lilest timber in the world. It has very fertile soil, a del

e(Iismble cliiate, energetic people, and is spleididly sitUa

ence Io I lie Orient. It huas a vast number of products need

fiIcttire, and a I the same time whlat is mnlililluactured oil the P

vail be taken chaIply to dhe market of the East anid sold to 

4vaiitage. So, Is a matter of fact, one of the great dem

I

western coast vill be for coal. Every consideration of' 

well as every C0nsiderationl of national pride, is opposed to 

epenilence upon British possessimls for tie coal which is 

tion of the 1 p)ospeity of this great maiiufactiiring- section

hiope of our silccesst!l coipet ion wi t hi British coal is throug

ri guiin C,1ia1,1. Ra ilroml traiisportationl across the contin

the question.

Il West V ira, which is a faiir center 4)1 the Apphaiachi

We l Miniuing aniid loading , cOil at 60 to 85 ('cits per toil 

1 f. o. 1). a tI I e coast. W\e are mi niig cl hea per coals ti a

co:1s. I 1ev coils cost, ]her k1.50 f. o. b. At t lie inies, althou

her miners only (; ceIts per day.

Al r. D)L IT TLE. They are selling biker lots at $4.2i u

,mil - 4.50 For shipment.

G(vCIOP 31ACCo>R KLE. That is true. Yet, 11 twith sta

1,lapa ii is (1ri vinlg Australia and Great Britaiii out of the eas

Iii the port ol Ilongk4ong, which is gettilig to be one of 

11a markets ill tho Ii East, tie Jap aliese coalis are really dominant, and

5 thle 4vel4op the I'arge territory w ic1 is ill tile Island 

-is coals the down 1nmarket fr il tore fich1, I l1 London, well the 41ay pit :11 a1141 wid 1'. y iresonl mouth. as o by will 4 b). i particulalrly the Aliike dIbIy. while trprise ill benetit I English have New Theill ourl She whi'hl southern York EnglM.-Jish 1)bOtih (riven, go0od willof coals will the H~arbor this become coals wil are Japall, coalis allow Ohiouidersell market worth are cost It, the a Vallcy, her caried frmol great coals from about intitence and 1ier. ,2.40 to competitor, of $4o S1.75 this hbou he this The to t selit will ,1 great 4;3 G00 to g"reiat New per per be ;2.2to mibumStAv
NICARAGUA CANAL, 

immeasurable extent. At the same time it will be of incalcuLbl

to the Pacific Coast.

Iy the construction of the Nicaraguan Canal, the price o

and down the .oast of tle Pacifie will be lessened to a very grea

The obvious advantage of this canal will be seen both in t

rates.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you what would be the freight 

from New Orleans to San Francisco through this canal on the 

$2 a toll toll.

Governor MACCorKLE. The distance from New Orleans to S

1s0 by the lpresenit route is 4,080 miles. I give tlie toll at $, 

at $2 toll, vi t 000 miles fOr ocean traffic, yo tl,- will still se

we imdersell the Britishi-American and the Pacilie Coast coal. 

niot take, of Ct ur Se, $4 petr ton Ireig "lt. At the present rate you 

culate the general rate at$8 per tori oi coal.Tis is safe alI( 

ative. The present run is 15,000 miles. The(, rim through t

is )nly 4.000 miiles-a little more than one-fourth of the orig

taiice. The reduction iii freight would be obviously onte-hialf a

to say the least, because there is only one-third of the distanc

('1211a111.

By railroad across the continent freights are from $20 to 30 

time is from twenty to twenity-five days. By sailing vessel ar

IIorn it takes one hundred and twenty days, and the freight 

from $8 to $i10 per toil. B v the canal this time wold be re

thirty to torty days, v with a reduction of at least one-half in freight

charges. Steam vessels through the Straits of Magellai 

from forty to fifty days, with freights from -10 to $12 per to

time will be reduced from seventeen to twenty days in length o

with the freigit rates correspondiiigly reduced.

The quotatioiis at Salt Francisco are as follows: Puget Sound 

to -7; Southlfield, Britisi Colunmbia, .Ou; Welligj()to, I)ritish 

bia, 8; Australian and European coal, spot, lots, S5.25 to) $.5

an average o) British island coal at ;6.50 to " 7.

The1 4 , cwal of the Ohio Valley can Ite placed il the. harbo

Francisco at from $4.50 to $6.50 per ton, with steadily decreas

leaving g onit tle consideration of the vast difference iii quality 

(f the oal of the Oio Valley. By the buildiiig of this canal 

the advantage of distance. over aly other coal exception g the 

Coast coal, which, as I have sliowni before, can not enter ilito 

tionl with the O(hio Valley coal, the advantage of qua lity alwa

iii fivor of the Appalachian coal at from $1.25 to $2.25 per t

the ilvaitage of a vast unrestricted market will accrue to th

froii the constructions of the Nicaraguan Canal.

Thj1 1 e CIIAIRDIAN. What is the estimated consumption of th

C( oast of coal H

Governor MACCOR KLE. As I understand, you mean the Paci

of eminient Saii tos from rest coast city, cotistimptioni I tle wonid cameFralicisco came Seattle would y Tniited authority from will thik from amonlit and of British find was States. that thehat about we Great 1,600,000. to United coast territory, have the between According 260,000 Britain consumption iiearly on States;he Out includiu tolls 600,000 exported 2,500,000 coalf tothis from this Mr.trade, g along anid G50,00( included Diablo tonnage into toils. Saward, 900,000 the the Mexico from tnnage co Continuing and only aboutst, probably British tons, Cows 140,000 outsidabout last 150,maBC
-44 NICARAGUA CANAL.

which one-lial came in by the west coast, Acapulco being 

ket. From) tlie I united States there were shipped to Alexic

to lr. Saward, about 100,000 tons of bit minions coal. Th

o' \ Itexico. upon a Ia ir calculation, w-ild develop through 

hlie exieit 1 81)olt 25,00 toils within t wo years. I think 

he a verv col serve a ti ve es tii ate. A t Centtal America the c

c(o'(Se(, W()1ld be cOiined to the canal. The best experts 

L1ted th'it the cana1,11 .111d its si ippin g wIo)ild a1 nnally re

,000,000 tools of c11. It will niatuially becoile one of tile 

ing stations ot the world, because there is more money 

veiolit thall c(ad. U'pol a clculatition whi I Will give 

fI'iIrth 11r on, you will see that of tiis 2,000,000 tons of eoal, a

liths wvill be himillisli( by the UnIlitedl States, 4or. the re']son 

phce tle coal at P analna or at the Pacific end of the Nicara

I*0ir less than l4. It is cost ing to-day by normal rates from 

To el 1.

Now as to South America, Great Britain shipped to Pe

1,000 tins. There wAvs from ler ow minies, f'rIm Austral

4 (TIII1imy between three and Ionr times as much more, whi

L5M,000 to 200,000 tons, of which aimoiut at least onie-lialt 

fCrm ih United States. whilee received 314,000 tolls las

4 ucat Britain. There were shipped ilto her by other iiati

.104,) totis, making 410,4I0 tons last year. The United S

have at least half of tis toimage of coal. Therelore, iin

2.00()00 tolls used on the (':11m4, of' which oie-lialf vill be s

lIM1smliijptiOi oil lie 1acific Coast, to fite whole Pacifie CO8s

fortnia it) Chile. there were imiplrted 4,000,000 tolls of colh

('a1eIlatiOi .s to price, 8s I have shovii it seems to me, a

it) everyone vho iderstands the question, that there 

Ilroulghi this c111 about the first year or two from the Appa

field the vast :miunillt of 210001000 toils 44 ca1.

I have discussed lhe ine re rgionl oF the Pacific Coast, b

4l cvry simll part of' the WIorld which will 1 e controlled b

As soo1 8s We turn 01r at tentimn to the markets of the wo

airIv those ot South A mue'rica and the Pacilic (ost, a vast 

Xvili b ol)pilned up, whicl is to-d ay controlled 1)y 0111mr Briish 

At Barailiii, 8razil. the distailee is 3,800 miles froii Ne

:I middle AtIlaliic seaport. There Cardillf coal costs the

(111 'live themii coal at about At M. Perunllbuco, British 

c('8 is uisedi it 1 I to "415 per toli. Includillng 1,080 mi les of 

tiou limt 'New Orleanis, w' (;Ii i thlm om a at ,5.50 p

Almtevide() the fIritishi coal cost-, $13 per ton. Wo can pi

Lihiin coAl ill thlit miiarket at '- per toll. At Acapil(1), 

tii c(),il I't)s1s them i'420 per ton. This market is only 2,20

:\t'W 4. )rle'lis, Ind we can place our ca i' s there at 11'per to. At Callao,

I-1r1, ( 'Iartliff co1 (osts 1415 per lou. This market is 2,981 

th costs The inland p Orleans, b1at and Ncv hl Frml c I o tiinspo't14ion averaging Orlea and hio s mir transportation per the the hares, c at mls tmou. 1-"e iiithIt operator 4; there per :111,tboult sitliI Ths on tou. ,s of ile in t, has barge. 5M) tile is froml the Valpariaiso, les 1,200 Ohio the tools. Ka\iawhla world. 5.0 fron carrying miles chleapest md 0 Oui it) N The f'rom Alississippi Chile, Ri report the 1'rom per ver, plain trauisportatioi Ohio Newport uses ton. in in 10,000 New\s, West Australian operation rivers River4 News, to tn(m Virgi is a15,0in towo tN
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

carry a ileet of about 30 barges of ab ut 500 tons, or abmuttt 

bushieis. This vast fIect is hattndled 1y N le comparatively smal

boat, a11d, as is well observed by an aut14rity o sm1h matte

one of these fleets would make 311 trains of 25 cars each, or a 

ous line 4f cars about 51 miles long. WIien at New Orlean

Imlouth o tie M ississippi, the coal is elevated into Scag-oing ves

shipped to its poilit of' destination.

Iy the ctistruction 4 the canal, instead of the ]log temi

route a11ud (Ct1e 11oril, with all of its uncerta inties ar is ing f

perils of navigation, there will be a comparatively short 'runt 

muth of the Al ississippi, cross the Gulf of Mexico, tlrlogh th

and u1p the Pacific Coast. amiioumting-v to (PIIny -1,000 mIiles as ag

15,100 iiniles journey whiich eastern rdusart-aycmeldto 

A very siiall calc8it tion will show ou- ability to 1nders4ll th1 ohl 

spk el (Pf csewhere. ( )ir coas cost, as I litve sai(l beftOrc, 

85 cents per toil at the pit mpouthI. It c(sfts ibmoit 80 cents per to

portatiP to) the mututh of the Mississippi. Tile t)llage thru

canal will atmuilt to about -l , leavinge 41000 miles for (weal tran

tion, we will allow from *2 to '41 per tol. Tis, i1 '- pr tol

twentitl (Pf a cent per toil per little, (r d(biP that at k I per to

rates froill Sall Fraicisc to LiverpoI are front I 7.50 to p ll4 f 

ilcs. This is from five-himidredths, O 01ie-twenttietIt, to six a

balf hiiiidredths of a ceit pel tol peri mile; the reduct ion il ra

be proportionate Oi reduced distmices. This, with insulranco a

de(ntals, will bring the cost )f a toi of the best Appalachiait 

fromn 'l to ';.60 at Sail Francisco.

T lhit this is a fair Statement i's vvidlenced by the fact thai the 

vessels carry coal at fi'mnn 7.5() to ".0) petr 1); airouild the I lor

tance of about L-,000 miles. The canal saves about two third

distanice. This statement is borlie 4t by the price (0, lastert 

8am Francisc(); tile last iiotationi was flim'i !) to 1I per tot. 

route we will have largely the aidvaiitage ill mileage4c Of thte We

EnulishL 1 Coals.

A1'. IiENNETT. Lave OVMI eStim1ted aly e 1tal rate lii passing. 

the ('8 tal ?

(overnWr M ACORKLE. I ave a]ways est ima t thmt wt t 

this atfroimi 'I to 1.50. I think that mt I cheat) lIerchaldise, 

ma iitIates, the 'ate c)ill be placed fro m l to *.50. Iit the 

was reduced to between $ I .80 and 1.90, 1and I think they will 

reduce 4this rate. They cil1 reduce it (ill the Suez C anal, a

have a large 1per cent in excess of a recasloable rate. I will disc

question a lit tle later oil.

Mr. BENNETT. As I understand, you coild aflord to Use the 

a toll (W *41.50?

Governor AlA(,CoIRKILE. Yes, sir; we could Use it at ; 1.A 0, a1

a calc'Itlation Which I 1mide a few imopmieIt's SiIIce, we coill 4 as 

Pacific shipping, we by are the Governor Alr. vessels can l2 il canal. three shippiig the 1)4 Coast. place carr'yitIg oLITTLE. even grat through MACC4NKLE. We coal coal Of if ports will coa We by at the That and have d) rail Newport of unilersell caal, not the leaves 300 by Yes, utilize Oho far the and or News, you sir; coals 400 the undersell Valley, the marketed a you miles advantage margin Btaltinlre, Ohio c4Puld iipmi at to aiy and ,I.80 the oft put Baltimore, other over ()f Alississippi )w it per any Norfolk, at '(al. toll, $ otlich' Norfotoll and Torivwh(
S)G NICALAGUA CANAL.

Newpmrt News, " i ig it around Cape i(orn and deliveri

Iflrhllis co u wat er 11111 of iiearly 15,000 miles) at 49 to 10 per 

I IlcIlale will bI' oIU uid valtaIe wIeII this temIIIpestito s aI

oCCAII voya"ge is reduced from 15,000 to 5,000 miles.

A! . ) T (lUTTLE. W\lhat is the dist ance froim the coal lields 

N ews

(loverlnor IAC(CA K L E. AIbout -100 m1iles.

M 1i. 1 ) NLTiT LE. W ha t is the cost per ton per wile, gene

iI I , . i 

( overio IO Abo(_0iz EL. M ut one-lifth of a cent. As I 

v( piNt the coal on shipboard at Newport, News at I.S()per 

Mr. DOOLITTLE. NhIIt iS the t 1ico C the Ohlio i verT

Govi-rnior MlACI O KLIE'. It is about one-t wentieth of 1 p

have ,;aid above.

Mr. J( And that is all the way down the Ohio and MIis

Ivernor N2 MACCORKLE. YeS, sir; this applies from th

district to New Orlemas-that is, when the eoal operator 

barge.111(l steamboat.

A lair illustrations of what we (-aI do was best seen ill 

\wIeli the )avis aIdl(l lkins mines ol W'est Virginia coIle

ships at Trinidiad. &nal there costs abolt 87 to $S per toll. 

it on IIhe ships at 111.1, and oi the other side of the Istlui

SiIs biid ouit , 1 per toll. We can phice it thlerei ver

leSS I I: im 45. The Navy I)epartme it saved Itrom the abov

t rvii isae om alone -450000.

These ae a lew illustatio s o fIi what ("In 1he done ill the 

ing oitrol of the great West Indiau Imiarhlke a1d of the iiia

I'acile ('oa> t aind of* outh Aimerica. After all of their in

Uahd alter all the Ist etxpenditure of iimoiiey by capit'alists i

the Soutli AiieIrican Continent and the I'acilic Coast, no 

bi;eei discovered which Iare in ally way coip: ral le withI ou

Let 11S discuss tlhe question of distance between the A

coal field iii1 its competitors. The Japa coa.1s are c

lulergo a voyage of 4,791 miles from Yokohauni to Sai 

An in coals travel 'r9m1 Sidne yv to Sail Fr1nci.tco, 

Froiml Newport News to SauI lni"Imlcisco it is about 4,500 

New Orleans to San F"ancisco it is ,0147 m iles; firomli Li

7i,7A miles; fromi New Yorl it is ),000 miles; from Port T

Valj :I ia iso it is 5,840 miles; from Newport News to Valp

1, 100 miles. These distIIces are throighli tile Nicaaaiall 

Thus you will see that we have the advantage over the Jap

abthntt ,000 miles ,advaiture over the Aiustralianl coal; 

mililcs :u :idivItaIge over the Iritish I land coal.

)[Ir :aIdva;it;i(e is flurtlIH( emphasized by the CollpaorisoiI 

het wN Port Townsend and Newport News with Valparaiso

idh'ii I y expect ed by the greta co1)1 coliplilies of the Caunl

ii over structo(e, should States. tioni. ln by market The Smoll lhe Iy tfi the the America high"I idil be (d, fields Vancouver caIal lei able Swith price price terill to we of akinig of Alerica. Vancoliver sell Engiland, the mnimnimg, ill Island a Vancouver Valparaiso have pound Coals. as I1 VaN that ,200 of it is cover co:l I they miles sland only II Iswith other a will a at point coal Island, distance lest words, supply the iii oil San advai borders Australia, the of with the 700 iraiciwesteitguc whofmt
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

Ultillately, Mexico and the South American States will be g

dlicers of irol and form there a ready and needed market. Ili 

cVery cliSe WC hipI'l it) Oull coals Ild coke to the regions needi

1m1ore chicaply t1anl they can be mined in th se countries. Ini 

there ire soni splendid deposits of iron ore. Ili many instanc

ores Will yield llore Hiatt 66 per cent of the imetallic irol. Suc

caise in Peru, (Ciile, Venezieil, and Brazil. li all of these 

there ale great deposits of iron ore and our clieap fuels will 

litely necessIry for their development.

Al a Iy of the South American States have within their limits 

grold, silver, lead, and quicksilver deposits. whieh will be open

to ile world's commlerce. fit this richi region our1 Coals will Ilost certainly 1)liy the important part. Should we not be ready to tak

tatgAe of I lie eertai i openin g of these great markets ? It is ilie 

eVCery4O)le interested ill the development of tile Ohlio Valley to P

tills canl1 is coilstruCtvd, amd iil the mere question of coAnl ad1

would be a trile evolution throughout the length and bread

valley watered by the Ohio River.

I have alone discussed the <question Wf the prodlitiol of coa

)hiio Valley and the possibility of new 11makets tow the reaso

gCIleal1 di SCussio (of the advant lages whIlici would accrue to 

Vaul'y wouhl take to() miuch tiie an1d space; but the application

diSCuLSS[On (PW coal ca1 be imiade to the vlst inuiiber of product

gre1At \Iley.

'Now, as a m1l.itter of fact, for tile proper development of mil. u

regioIs, new markets must be opened. ()Our production nd c

tion lust be extended. Such is the condition (Pf a118airs to (dI'y 

restricted market that last yeir tile Iennsylvania inillers only 

about two litidred days il the year, and the Ohi Pilrs wo

111111(red anld sevenlty-foutr daiys. Thiis. statements is ftHier em

by the filgiures of tile total production in tile United States. 

the total inbier of men employed ill coal millill NwaIs 376,

worked oly 111 average of ()11e hundred and seventy-eigh It dInys

more 11han1 1111t time. Ih is one-half tillIe labor anId the presen

opment of this gr'ieat resource of national wealth is suicient 

present markets. For the protection of this vast body of' in

laborers, and as 811n incentive to the development of our gr

regions, it is absolutely important foi- its to command tle Ill

the world. It is ]lot just that with oi vast creative ellergy, 

ability to compete, that this great production should be con fined 

to h)om1e 11111rket. 11)y whlat means can we b))tain this imark 't, 

,is thri-ongh this canal, whcli will allow its to go into the Sout

ican market, and whicl will allow us to compete in oPur ownII coun

the Japancse, the kritish Coluimbian, the Australian, and tile 1

man 11 WI oulr eap inliti.11 cost of, production, fthe foreilgnerl sh11ould

not be able to compete with us in the production of coal.

facture by is what the orat Goveri Mr. MNr. that for I canal lie will amount JoY. 1o Japan construction you cheaply 101' amount for LTTIE. are Dig-ressino- 1AACCOIRkLLE. tile of and being conimerce with.coal Western to the per 1) of killed eastern the yOll from year, coast at from canal lllniensely. by S8 ot the what countries? Eastern of believe the to ?question the it want 10 will United a that seaport The tou. of consist of Have iilling trouble fuel. coal, Sttes States of, you iave You would and of aid will theconsideryou calnSouth what be Pacipass costnoc
NICARAGUA CANAL.

it Will iibn;Ice I Will be glad to hiave your views ()n t

SAovenor I ACO k KLE. Yes, sir; I have COIsiderd flit 

C01110 pel-I1Ured to-dny to bring III anl rgumielit bef ore tile co

show exclusively that tis coal (lleSticOl is ole of the Imst 

and to show the comimiiitice that Iie united States should 

e101trol its (1w I c(d tralti, alld that to Imeoanii to do So is by c

this canal; but I will take pleasure in giving YOU ily V

qnestimI. It is very Ihard to make calcilat i)1s as to increas

especleaily iiinc case of traflie i ii tis free Ceintri.y of ours. A

tiols o(fI iincreIse (t, tra fic in the Suez Canal have been en

away with by tile reality. This is the case ill file compara

set tied Imlercai iiile counitries 4f ElirV(pC. How (an we inake a

a tivI baIsis wvIheni we c(Psider the pI 1ei Ioille] Ial devclopmenl

C y Itry The toiiiulg~e (t' the vorIl to-diy amounts 

71t11,000,100,000 tnis. Il a but 11 twenty years it ias been inc

20,m)tI).(.000 tojIs.

It, is almli4 i 114cu11i1111able the aimiouit (& trailic which is ab

the control ( of the American caial. I will give it ts near 

t Ii t we (:811 appreciate its inimensity. The trade of* Gireat 

EeImuldor, PWrl, Chile, and Bolivia, which last year ailiouiit

15.,0,000,000, is absollutely tributary to this canal. The tr

At1antic, mid hIc -ifti casts is tributtary to this cankial, mid a

IS90 to t0,000,o0o tnis. Tiie trade of 4 elgiu i with iPer;i 

(P oli Atlantic pmrts vith Iionglng, China, Japmi, British 

Philipipiine Islnds, and Sandwich Islands; with Chile , Pern

dh r, wNhich last year amounted t4) ibotit 55,00(I,000; ie t 

Paci ic ports (& tile Un iited St ates with iIe1giinm, Fnra1e

(GreAt B1ritl AN with Cuba aimounted to about i25,000,000, 

atmliitliiti!4 to the vast aggregate of' S1;0,000,000, not inc

tratlic ht ween the Atliitic and Pacilic OealiS. There is 

aiMouiit of triae which is largely tributary to the canal, but

is tlsolItely t \ rit try to) the canal. Its (ily passageway 

Itle call.

[E\ery eclmioPic and4 trade lawv demands that tHrmioni thi

vast colilierce will go. Therefore, looking at i this coilleie 

its destillnatlOnl by the cheapest mid quickest iouite, ]I(\w (,mi 

al disinter-ested persmi fi(role I(imolent coiceive that the tra

this \aiil will b, as somi Wiselres have pt it, (nily to th

2, (o tois a year! Now there is a lare trade, a great p

will (4 tbIrlu his c:1al. It is 11I)t absolutely tributary, Iblt 

almost cert ain to gO through the caiiah. Therc is every reiiso

: Iia a a rge m1111niilt of t he return cmliilerce het weeii Great 

her EastcrnIi ( cololics Nnil pass thiiougih the icail. There is 

;111101111t od tile Eldishi Iiraftic retlrnIing fIrmli the East Iid

1iWt iT I 'i I to L i and c i I resI lIihled to New Y

will and Western 1l41 There 1May Whih Chihe ILiomi. at wilt 4 iNew I 4hin, koni, is iiention Alustrali., t which and Sch Australia, York, be Ja1p1. imier'ia Nl\w added as Ie aiimouniitcd alild Smith lol4 largely New Thiis d at <,22,000 the Nev dilise to Wales, Ym-rk Zaland, t tilis vessel tribiita'y last as estimiaute and p111mibIihag4 Queenislanid, 1dst year ; at Tasmiania. withI iot y-e this is to 11,amililII seti the the k23,4211,000, Japan, city Iroiime tra trade S'ouIilth Oi Java, will dle iited t4 Ccybmh o4f 3,I35,i0h, o reload Lolidmi. Alistili-Att Fra PhilippGreat 1e bra Iice trid P
NICARAGUA CANAL.

$26,439,000, which together last year alloulnted to over 8'1, 

and the trade of our Atmuitic ports with the British East I idies, 

East Indies, Dutch East Indies, and Central America, which t

last year amounted to over $43,000,000. The whole mitomit of 

trade aggregates over 450,000 000, and a large part of this m

the law of distances, seek its destination through the waters 

canal.

The trade of Chile, Peru. and Bolivia with England will take it

through the canal, as the journey between Bolivia aid Liverpol 

shortened 4,(19, alld V,0t),ii-Aso and Liverpool 2,144 miles.

Mr. JoN. IHave you caluillated how much toiinage will pass fr

to east througli the canal, from the Pacific Ocean th roiigli to the 

coast of Europe, UIId the Eastern coast of the Uinited States!

(Gveriior _lACCoKliLE. Yes, sir; to some extent I have, ca

the al(oillt of traffic passinI g fromii the Westerit coast to the 

coast. The f1reig on con merce of Sati Francisco has grn mwn to I e 

as the foreigii commerce of the united States between IS20 an

The great disadivaiitage lider whici the Pacific Ciast La'ors i

is about as great a distance from the Pacific Coast-Sai Fratic

instance-lo Liverpool as it is to New York. The Pacific Coast 

finest timber iin the world. This is becoming exliausted inl the E

we are COm10pe1led to have it. You have on tile Pacific Coast 25

acres of spleildid timber. Washinigtoin last year put out 1,800

shin les. It is too far to ship them around the Ilorin, and the 

haul is too expensive. W\e iteed spar hmmb ier and ship lumber, all o

wIjeimist event ally colme from the Western coast. In 18

shipped from Puget Sound 86,428,339 feet of limber. Aboit 12

of this went to Ireat Britain. Every foot of this lumber will go 

the caial, as it costs from $10 to $11 by the IIorn by sail aid 

$25 by steam. The prescit capacity of mills of Puget S

1,000,0010,00 feet, per anium. This will open tip the greatest tr

the Westermi coast in connection with the East.

Senator Squire estimates that the State of Washington al

200,00,000 tons of wheat per aUiiiiiiii. There wue exported l

from Puget Sound, San Fraicisco, and Willamette, Ovg., a Ib

000,000 bushels of wheat. With the except ion of about 150,00

els, this was all tributary to the canal. Firomn the same town

were shipped last year 1,300,000 barrels of flour. Every pound 

merchandise is tributary tP the canal. Thlie', in cmnsiderilng t

mate which has beeni made of the Pacific Coast traffic by the pro

of the canil, we find that ill the year 1894 the export of the 

of green fruit, dried fruit, raisills, and canned goods the estiila

much greater than was calculated. Seiiator Wh ilte says th

State of Califoriiia produced in these four articles alone la

212,000 tois of freight. Ile also estimates that there were over 

gallons of brandy shipped in 1894 from Calitor'nia, every pa

which discussed regret to is which 2,000,000 through 7,000,000 I have I discuss utter have N will that I been have and C-24 theons made tons,in be the to-day able answer canal absolute here tributary of question some which, traffic to my given make, within to quite time through your nnsense, in to of you it ahis exhaustive is coal the sems first short so tofirst canal. this in estimate limited question. I its toime, sulbnit, canal. two me relation investigation The and or that that willthree estimate upon Frm I there havto extend there the years the every will only of will of Pacific facts to this tonnage be estimatof come be 10,000a 5,000matand onlCosafp
874) NICARAGUA CANAL.

1.,000,000 tolls. T his is a safe and I think conservative 

)f curse I could give various reasons for this in the saving o

but the limits of my discussion to-day will not permit me

IOWever. th at lily esti mates are on the side of conservatism a

Mr. ENNETT. Wliat is your estimate of the tonnage fro

V alevy soitth. inchluiiiig coal, cotton, and other articles,?

Govern Ir il ACCOu1KLE. Of course, the construction of the 

stillilat e all the pr diictions of the South and the Ohio and 

valleys. ( )il cotton is Ilmanifactured in England. We shou

cotton ( directly to its destination, but, as a matter of fact, w

.1 r-ope to 1e mo1.i11111 i ctured, and only get the price of the raw cotton.

.J1a pa i's geting to be a i great manufacturing- ination. In a little while

she vii have control of the great part of the manufacturing 

She liist get her cotton from us. Ii 1888 site bought 100,0

in, 1 sie owitght 7,00),000 pounds of cotton. She has 

1,000, I) spindles, and 1 er pe pie all wear cotton.

We vill 1w eariy 2,000 miles Inearer Japan b)y the canal aIn(l 

hearer the northern coast of China than England will be, so, 

()f Fact, ti le vast amiouint of c tton consumed in Japan sliould 

4hr'o01ug1 the canal. So it will be with a vast number of prod

)1hio an(d Alkisissippi valleys. In 1891) Clhina imported 6

o

cotton goods, aid only 5,000,000 from us. China will have 

great i iathetnl'ing comitry, and within a short time a va

will be il that direction tfirmtoUh the canal. The tonnage 

sissi pi RiIver in 1) was nearly 80,00~0,000. This will be 

vastly wien we sell to the South American countries the 

Imleilnaidise whichl our nearness to them demands that we 

I e1'ling coal frn m the 01io Valley Atlantic ports, I wou

the toiiuiag1e of the ( Ohio aitd Mississippi valleys and the So

two o t wo atd om-e-alf millions of tons a year.

W\\*hen we discuss the Ohio Valley, we must take into co

th1at this region frilol every consideration, cheapness of m

14iality, I nearniess to all tie im ateria ls Inecessary to mal ufilactur

clitimate, 10cility for transportation, bids fair to be the great m

ing region of Norti America.

We have right y i us the splendid Bessemer ores of the Lak

lIkegi i, tlie largest deposits of splendid coals of every qua

to coinerce. Upoli the hills of the Ohio Valley we havye t

bod4y tliard-wood timber in the United States while over a 

of its area are splendid deposits of red and brown hematite an

ores of hig"h'I giade iieeded and demanded in irol making, w

all we are ii the temperate part of the United States, with 

great 1tict nations of extreme heat, or tremendous blizzards, 

sun tuners of many portions of this c country. The fact is app

here iin the Ofio Valley we are situated in the midst of the fi

of traiisportatiln oil the face of the earth. From East and 

North the allowed earth. ing looked seetiol, various rich of Our the marvelous soils, section and greatest world oil What chiefly the cereals its throughout Soitl, cheapest so can fertile has wealth far noted iteed of compete beeni the as the valleys, is and for the of aim thethatemperate known this its soil readiest with world of the vast andwonderful capital is in it prodiicts concerned, the quantity as its inzone. connection a Ohio the fruitful has great valley. production WhIile of been Valley, of and our faming waving hills, with to while ths manufactuby reach has the of rason grain is and only ceremarbeen and ma
NICARAGUA CANAL.

sections of the United States can ill anywise compare with th

Valley in the vast increase of its manufactures. In 1880 the m

turing1(" industries of the Ohio Valley were 19,000, while in 18

had i il(reascd to 115,000. The mianfactiiried pr1)(l1l(ts in 1890 am

to :3,300,000, about 40 per ceiit of the total manufactures of the 

States, as against $1,791,000 in 1880.

Pardon a few more statistics iin reference to this great val

1890 the States of Pennsylvania, West Virgini-a, ()hio, K1e

Tennessee, Indiana, and Illinois had a population of 19,328, )2

per cent of the total populationn of the United States. The

strictly and techIicualiy speaking, Ohio Valley States. The S

Missouri, Louisiana, Miississippi, Arkansas, Wiscoisin., lxii!n es

Iowa, wiich are indirectly dependent upon ml cotigumls t

Ohio Valley States, and; are a part of the great Mississippi lk iver system, had a popUlation of 11,110,152 people, imuaking in the two 

a total of about 51 per cent of the whole population of the 

States, the entire population being 62,622,250. (,)ut of the 

collected inl 1890, the Ohio Valley States paid between 30 an

cent.

In the farm products of the Ohio Valley States, the census 

shows that out of a total of -'2,40,107,455 of tlie total value 

products of the United States the Ohio \alley proper L had 

$655,985,797, or about 27 per cent of the total of' the United 

The total value of' the faim lands in the United States in 18)() 

round iiumbevs, $13,000,000, 000; the value of the fari lailds of' t

Valley group of States amounted in 1890 to a total of -_4,730,0

or about 36 per cent of the total value of the farm Ia nd(s of th('e 

States. It the Ohlio Valley the total vahue of farm implements 

amounted to 1-18,000100,, i round numbers, or ali increase o

Census f 1880 of 20 per cent.

The building of this ca nal will line the banks of the Ohio R'iv

Pittsburg to its m1iouth w ith every class of miiainlfictiriing ent

It will cause, ii t aloiie the mere development of nmanufiactriving 

tries within its limits. but the opening up of this section t bromg

traiswort nation to the markets of the world will iiccessarily (len

building of the ship canal from the Lakes to the O(hio liver, 

that the cheal) ores of the lake regions cnI be broiglit where t

be imanufactiired more cheaply thani elsewhere. It will denmd 

vast improvement, to wit, the locking and mining of the Ohio 

so that at any season of the year the products of this region 

lie useless upon the banks of the river for niature to provide tr

tatioln, but through all seasons of the year, by rea son of th

improvements made by our Na tinial (Gvernimen t in this ri 

products 1may tike wing s '11 and fly to 0 thlier sections of the world

Tlhius is i ot mere pr(phecy. The demand of the world t r ou

itcts will be increased immeasurably when the world finds tha

the gvreatt chvtaply theinkhei'se coal G lO. chlap1nHless great overnor production nearly people? you N created cinditious are rity three MxACCORKLE. \oNAN. of rather of oaj tman I the f times hope the coal-is of optiinistic ianulacture. elsewhere, great aticles as you cheaply Yes, not will sae. in a demaided sir; and contest realize your as Cheap but, the views? as all Japiiinese. demand going transportation by I you told coinnerce About oni say, will there you, but be Asiatic we will now (call increare lo bb
372 NICAI'AG-LUA CANAL.

lMr. NOONAN. Why ?

( (overoi' lxl 1'AA'OKLE. We have the clheapest coal and 

intelligent hlabr. Oir coal is very iiuch more easily mi

have all t lie appliances to mine it with. Every condition wit

prodIl etion of coal is better thian with them. It is true th

are coitrolling the I mgkong market and driving England 

market, but I have no question of our ability to successful

with t hem. They do not alarm us.

Mr. NOONAN. Froim your knowledge of the Japanese, do yo

they are very sisceptilble of improvement?

(Goverinor liACC uiKLE. They are going to be quite vig

petitors, and tor that reason we must have the most unrestri

of competitionl. Il my opinion, the most unrestricted mean

tition is the cheapest communications. Wheni we have that

qIiiestion of our ability to undersell and iindiimanfaCtUr

almost every field, with the exception of a few articles.

lx r. N OONAN. I tilillk it res1Ilves itself into tlis, that whe

to c1,ap hibOr in this minig, then the Asiatics can beat the 

all the tiie.

Goverlnwr A!ACCORKLuEu . They can on some few things. In 

to the prOtietion of paper, some of the clealp cottons, o1 so

p1 ry, and a few other of similar lines of articles, they call m

'MiI Cheaply tian we cai, but ill any of tle great lies of manu

ii1g, in all of I lie matters which coiitol the commerce of 

m)a11 fmr u:1i1, o01r1 labor is twice as c4hica) as JlapanesC. I h

this., I thiik, conclusively above in reference to the question 

We arc n In ing coal chiea per tlan anyone in the world.

Ali . NOONAN. With the iost iitelligelit labor

GIvCim ior L cAC( ik iKLE. And therefore with the cheapest.

Mir. NUONAN. And possibly as soon as you get to ruimiiig co

the canal * you will have a strike so you call not mine it as ch

(Gver or l i 'ACCOUKLE. I do not know. 1 only know we are mining

it cheaper to dlay.

lxr. 14(IInE. I suppose machiniery has become such a 

it may Ia'.2'ely control plod ictim

G overnor MlACCORKLE. Yes, sir; that is the case. Withi

mWchimue Mininug will control hialid minlig, and outside of the 

()f Libor, 1an 1)1'for Imian, tile count ry whI icl will be able m1ost in

to use ii mach icry will succeed in driving its rivals out 

hir people mawnl 1ge imiachinery better than any people Oi the 

eaith, aid we are getting' to use machinery quite largely 

and in West vXi' Virgi nIia, I anid withiin tell years we will use it almost

'xcl(Si Civly. It largely does awaiy with imantiil labor in 

They Iave it now arra nged so that they use a portable elec

ratiis near the nouth of the mine. We mine per mn, in the 

Ili 1, ) to 7 tols per day. With the naclhinery inl tile Pocaho

('Oiditiolls of 41r easily INicarigua to I v(ct te The I I maciinery. the would am a1venl1re Veins to accessible, CUIuRMAN. 1mtter' which very lie Ilave of Ca1al much amoulint in I milling So have Such bee most 1 patiently. but and 4Pbliged n We Ilarg'ely of glad is though instances thie are cal the Egland to to inmadiiiery very casedevoted( it Iave undrcut the it above best glad in connittee and (disculssed( Japan. my to can to Germany the per confine hear tile. be surface, hour for generally more The you. myself its largely was reason cheaply lie courtesy over regulathe to prevof the 20 suui
I41CARAGUA CANAL. 

APPENDIX.

No. 80, BROADWAY, NEW Yort, July 

DEAR SiR: I understand from my recent conversations with you that 

pany will shortly be ablo to he in a position to proceed with the work of co

of the Nicaragua Canal. In accordance with those conversations I herew

the following preliminary tender to you:

We should be willing to undertake the work at substantially the prices 

the different classes of work by ( Chief Engineer Menocal in his " Report o

location of the canal," dated January 31, 1890, of which you furnished 

with the followinig exceptions: We should want, instead of the prices giv

Menocal, to be paid at the following rates:

1. Clearing .per acr

2. Rock excavat ion . .per cubic yard

3. Earth excavation .-. .(o. 

4. Earth fills ---------------------------------------------------. do. 

5. Earth under water .(0. 

6. Rock under water .0. 

7. Concrete in place . .o-- -. 

The rest of the work described in Mr. Meniocal's estimates we are prepar

cute at his figures, which, with the changes therefrom last above referred 

make the total amount for which we are prepared to Iuild the canal, $70,0

This proposal is made in respect to the w hle canal. It can be made to 

tanta to the eastern section thereof, from Greytown Harbor to the lake, th

ing the work covered by the proposals which I understand you have alread

for the dredging and for the construction on the western coast. I shou

however, to make one contract covering the entire work of the canal.

I shall be prepared to give satisfactory bonds for the faithful performa

work within five years from the (late of the contract.

It would be necessary for you to arrange that payments should be made 

either in New York or Greytown Harbor, upon certificates of work done or 

furnished, approved by the engineers of your company; and I am prepar

these contracts for 50 per cent in cash and 50 per cent in bonds of the canal 

at such price as they may be issued to any other contractors or syndieate

way disposed of by your comiany; or, if you choose, I am prepay red to 

contract for cash, and I will contemporaneously agree to subscribe f ir an 

the bonds in any syndicate which you may prepare, which will be epial 

the amount to be paid me upon the whole contract, with its pro rata of st

I shall le prepared to enter into a foimnal and detailed contract with you

whenever vout are in a position to satisfy me that your inancial arrani gen

been so far perfected as to insure the receipt by inm of the cash necessary 

under such contract.

I ought to add that I am at present engage(d under contract in the cons

a railway on the island of J.anaica, and I expect to finish that work abotit 

the year. I an now eimploYing there aboit 8,000 men with a large plmt, 

contract is to be made with Yon I should desire to have the same perfec

the 1st of December, if practicable, so as to arrange for the transfer o

and me ciilty ninety or I ciently think Jox In a that plant prt accordane in Yours, PrePcfidt days with speci your R. putting of directly BARTLETT, from the te iCvery financial to Vicaragua canal, with modifications a date from be truly, force the our ofarrai if Esq., 1amaica of basis contract. you conversation, Canal 25,000 accede of menments of to Company, a Mr. the Janaicans formal to have istl]ilniis. Menocal's my I have contract New been terms. alone made Yorl consuimuated. I tigores feel for at this CitU, saft tI JAS. work abmve ie letter N. construction il P. Y. upon sa qin, I referred general McDONALD should the 1t it' ha

cain to

you of 
374 NICARAGUA CANAL.

EARTH EXCAVATION ABOVE WATER, WESTERN DIVISION.

In the western division, where the rainfall, though muchi greate

United StAes, is nielh less than in the eastern division, the cost o

1m101re niearily comparable to 1hat of the TIIite(l States.

The average contract price of earth excavation from the Chicago D

is 1n I far frOmll 30 cents per cubic yard, or for clay alone about 25 ce

Van4. THiis work was excited mainly during the summer, because i

profit :bdy carried on during the unfavorable weather of winter. W

was being executed, the baliks of the canal were level, making it ea

p1a it for wvasti ng tihe spoil, aInid, as noted by Mr. Bites in Iiis interesti

e\pJ lei ence on the c:ana al demonstrated that the two lines of railrn a

either side of the canal were of inest imuable service. This, and the 

the almost limitless Iechani cal resources of C hicago, together with 

mw p rice of fuel olbt:i ned froni the vast coal fields of northern Illinois

dilte vicin itv (delivered at $1.75 per ton), render the cost much less 

siiir i work in Nicaragna.

T'e add ition of 60 per cent to the cost of work at Chicago to mee

ative y unfavorable coniditions of climate, rainfall, cost of pl:nt, 

a

other suopplics in Nicaragua is an extremely moderate one. The f

]Iby tho 1bwoa rd . 10 cents per cubic yard. is the one which a pears in 

sch ed ile of I10, and is also the one adoi pted by ir. Trea t in hIis p

iimpiv, although uni der certain conditions which practically amou

iicrIease. Il its recent estimate the company has reduced thiis uni

cvIins Im e:a11 excavation from the canal, but has ref aiiedil it for excav

It, is us a I, in receiving proposals for lock excavation, to ask for a 

for mpiiiii . In the present case the cost of all auxili iarv work is in

comp *iN in file linit price for excavation, except in the case of the tw

wier sjiecifiic allowance is made.

hille i l Ile 1Io:irdl's estimate the entire cost of pimil)ing and other auxiliary work

is clharged to excavation and taken up in the unit price, in Ihis conn

he wVll to note that, :Itl icipiating the diflicilty involved in the constr

p'st tinder heavy rainfall., the chief engineer, on pace , states that i

met by the construction of temporary sheds over the lock siues, but h

eat l, diiiertakent to mtiake an estiitiate of% what it will cost to put under roof an area

0! 8 I feet lo I by perhaps 100 or 150 feet ill width.

Theli' iiiit 1 prices of recent excavations for dry docks in the United 

iiitcresti lg in this conitiectioi. At the Port Roval am] New York do

Was GO() cents per cuhie yard; at the I'l'g'et Sound dock the price of the 

l ceiits per vuiie n \ i- r, but greater pieces for special parts of tille work nale the

average price about Go cents. In every case an additional payment 

EARTH EXCAVATION ABOVE WATER, EASTERN DIVISION.

It would be diflielt to imagine more nifavorable conditions for ex

th:an exist in the ealstirn ldivisioi under the tremendous raiiifall of nea

year (io New York :; to 4 teet).

Te work in the eost divide is through a continuous series of hIu. 

rciiovial of the clay the profile taken on the surface of the rock will b

less hilly thin before. The dilicuilty of hInidling plant under these 

Ile retiioval of material will be easily appreciated, and the addition 

to the price a(lopled for the western division is notexcessive. This unit 

the (dst of disposing of the flow of the waters of the Deseado 1a 

cross the ean l line fregiently, and during the he:ivy rains have lar

water. h'Ie iiiiportance of this is very great, and the entire lack of 

a ctual volumes rellders it impossible for an egieer or contractor to e

('ntire ordiiir pumnpiw the at 1ii4. W.1as ii The linineial $1.50. cost over lock cost swspwwsioin ciist vwrk of $1 to ahoilt, The of of difficulty doing pwr c(lar this e.arith :i figure cubicii:i to of the is this. MUD be nch exca estimated work before site. yard, adopted opened of EXCAVATION vation Ilhe of rain and the the rinis was by for would by comnpletion the same the 43 the Ile which conltrit company cents AT character involve lock board SITE occur per now of was was OFat the cubic temporary anywhere in $1early profithvle. EMnANIMENTS. obtained work. use per yard, at cii' every the suspension in and by yard, the St. Tll dIy the consuMarylnilev4 wmand co
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

very competent contractor, Mr. Arthur McMullen, of New York, a port

unit price being m:ide to cover the necess:ary cost of cutting off the mu

above and below the site to prevent inflow into the excavation, a cheap 

method of doing this being suggested as the sinking of rough timber 

with stone into the soft bottom.

ROCK EXCAVATION, WESTERN DIVISIoN.

The company's price for rock excavation in the western division, accor

schedule of 1890, is $1.25 per cubic yard, reduced to $1 in their estiimate o

lislhed for the, first time in the report of the Board. The board has adopt

pany's price of 1590.

The price adopted by Mr. Treat was $1.25, the same as in the schedu le 

in the estimate of the board, but with certain conditions, which, as before 

with reference to tle price of earth excavation, inmde a material increase

The average contact price on the Chica go Draina ge .Canial was al out 75 cents

conditions under which this work would be done in the western division 

less favoralde than at the Chicago Drainage Canal, for reasons before giv

the additional reason that the niterial is largely hard volcanic rock, wh

up much less readily, and where the cost of making the sides of the canal 

as to be practicable for the passage of vessels, would be considerably g

Chlicago, as is well known, competition is extremely keen.

On the eastern division the conditions are less favorable in every wa

increase of 50 ceiits to the western division price per cubic yard is a ver

alowaice therefor. The economic imethods deveb ipe at the C hica go 

Canal will be applicable here to a very small extent oily. The averag

price of rock excavation at the Chicago Draina ge Canal is about 75 cent

yard. The rock is a soft Iiiiestone, horizontally stratified, which can 

easily, which breaks up well with explosives, and in viichi the sides cn be 

smiootil cheaply by channeling niachiiies. The ground is level, the rock 

erally found at the surface, and the plant for the renova l of the iateri

llamled, to say nothing of the unusual and extraordinary facilities fu

railways for furnishiinig access to the work on both banks.

The conitr i ct piice for the large amount of rock exc:avation at the J

reservoir, New York City, placed under contract for the last year, is abo

per cubic yard. The rock is a laminated gneiss, wvhicli would be som

difficult to (Irill and ])last than the limestone in the Clhicaro Drainage 

less so than the so-called conglomerate in the east divide.

EARTH EMBANKMENTS.

The price adopted by the board and that adopted by the company in 

same, except that it was found I that the excavationi in the east divide 

supply a sufficient amount of clay for the embaukmnents in the San Frm 

An add i tioni was therefore made to cover the cost of excav;atiing and ion 

the requiireil additional material. The company imiade no all walice for th

able item of cost.

By buiildinig considerable additional railroad line a portion of thi

material could be had from the several short excavations for the canial 

Francisco basin, but the cost would probably be at least as much as by 

conisi(lercd by the board.

The estimate for embankiiment for the San Francisco division in 1890 

cubic yards at 30 cents. The company's 1895 estimate is over 6,000,000 c

using the sanie unit price, without noting the fact that the practical d

the quantity will necessitate borrowing to build the eiilbakuments. The b

it absolutely necessary to make an increased allowance to meet this aldit

ROCK EXCAVATION UNDER WATER.

River. their part inventor the usRiver, iug heThe Mr. board, of of revised main cost lwhi Michigan, The the Dunbar of adopted name and of price devicess work bodyconil)ay's estimate this suggested the in paid viz,of has class thehiby highest this $2.43 for of been lower which unit of connection. work 1895. the work this per done price living of aunit class cubic must large hasis by for price figures. authority been of Mr.be rduction yard, this work done of greatly Chares in $5 is Mr. under 1890 in toon not of $6 the reduced Dtinibar this F. is cost a pera citerion $5, Diunbr, upper current question, has cubic which in has 30 been rcent yard recently of for miles contract they lie effect Buffalo, the for years. ws of reduccost Niced. autthe on co
7 G NICARAGUA CANAL.

Nicarag'ua. The rock in the St. Marys River is horizontally stratifie

easily la sted and dre Iged. The work is done in a more favorable cli

the lieighohi '10oo(1 of all the facilities for the supply anl maintenafnle of 

In adopting tile Ioiwest figure named by Mr. Diunbar for work of th

1oar has gile to th1e lo west Jimit which it believed to be permissibl

circumst:-111 es, particularly as in the case of the St. Marys River the de

vation is only 22 fet, while in the San Jiuan liver it is 28 feet and o

prfl er d ispsition to be imade of the material arises as a Iquestion for 

siilcraotion a1d may involve special arrangements for guiding the flow o

and the maintenance of the channel depth, resulting in a practical incr

LOCK CONSTuUCTION.

It is to lie noted that the company's project makes Ise of no other m

constI'lct ion of the lmcks than concrete, it the eOstimates are to lIe follo

ro4sp mect. Tii e vaii lrimls cmanl publications and statements indiideate the 

mii:isoilv to Smil ext cIt, .a other material whlichl, however, are lacking - from the

estiluites, which plrvii I de mily for Ceicrete at $6 per cubic yard. F

Mr. \1eiial's oh ic:gl pa , I.Pe ges 33 anid 31, stated the body of the lock is to be of

Ceiincretc, with cut s51ne iII the imliter sills, the hollow (filoiis, and siii 

nied priitectioll flo-m shocks. Of all this nothing appears in the estima

The boaridi hms t*(niii' di[IieultNy in understanding whbat the cuimipanly I'ea

as flhere are a, so]utdv no detailed or construction drawings of any kind, :nd in

foriniiii' its own estimate and computing the cost of these locks th

forcIA t) Ilreplare for its owvn use preliiniiary drawings of this kind.

It is evideit 11iA tile Ilse of :t resisting and massive material is abso

sary in lock 'onlstructilil, to take up thW shiock and friction till(' to th

large vessels, a ul 14' pr-ti ice is 1i1versal of using ei her a very high o

ma0mnry r tie use of s()if "int stPone-limestone or granite of the tough

resIstinug kinid.

Tile use o these limaterias is not onuly necessary in connection with th

of vessels, lit al i to insure the solidity of anchorages for the gates and 

a11Ces il coillwetimn with tile operation of the lock.

The em any disregards all these ConIsideratios and uses, exclusively

in the prhp:rtins, as sta teil Iy the clief engineer, of one volumie of 

of s:ai, ai JyiV ot broken stone, at an estimatedl cost of $6 per eubic 

Iliclr the coiilitioms existing in .Nicaraa, where there appears to 

absell-e of stone 51 i hile for ashlier masonry, the use of colicrete for til

it the ock is pwrim1issible, :nd was contemplated in the estimates o

trcater stee gtil. liiwever, should ie given to exposed angles by the in

first-class sli 114' ork. Tw est lila te of the Board covers the cost of t

for the hollow (iloills Oly ; that is, the portions of the walls in which th

gates will turn. This is certainlv the milillill allolulit of this imaterial 

be used, ;alm is much less tliai in any othiir known construct ion. (rani

used for this ipllrpie, :id wolld have to be translported from abroad. 

this wuld b alwuit $Glu per cubic yard, which, of coirse, includes tin exp

clitt ing Iiecessalry to :idapt it to its uses and the special plant required 

ill place.

It w\ouili probal v be jildiciotis to us(, the same class of material 

ox pi i :1gies nil for tlt, miter sills, as specified by the chief enginee

4-ago pIaPCr, but ntot provide for in his estiimates.

Ill :alil ioll to this, in view of the muipreceoleited dimensions of the 

pooseol, alid the 1lnlccmrain nat tire of the material in which, of necessi

muiuist rcst, a)d the pioSpisbilit v of the variatioli ill the nature and support

this miiteri;tl wit Liii 1tw limits of the lock arv:i, the board has considered 

necessity of StrengtIinig the lower portions of these striictures by 

emilhedhied ill the Coni'te. This is especially importait in view of ilie 

the 11614hlle of tile loc1k hittomi to rise in conlsequlenc of the great upw

floli n'cCesS:I brick, aticle est the theion to ing Mr. It or iinitO to lock lock :ilipwe:t-ct in dischre liclowv Wlleeher, or on lieu Yo 1,000),0 is itself, fi01' bV lock to whiii'h IIIi of a a ie to system metal th colistrliction adding rovi of built lic fi for l waer rock c:Ill p)1)t sipi emaih lining. 80a1ri on of et n140t $4l),UiN considered a ion six froImll rock lock to b thit teidingengineer locks fIhI' in ThIe the foumidatioi. at the imiterbalanced inner foranother lock. at estimates U'nited by surf E1ngiiieering additional NicarAiglIa aces Mr. of consi(lcrable This Wheeler, States the of Starting clverts at might concrete, the , 11y the eachi News for prices, the board the St. makes he with admlission of eiiipty addition Marys of provided :);4 and to provide .1111m0 $1,400,000 this feet cost inI lock. Falls figiire 2. 7 to the itute inches by P493, for the (1anal at asstm:I of the :a I eU
NTCARAGUA CANAL. 

I

prices. This total needs translation into Nicaraguan prices, for which a

allowance of not less than 50 per cent should be made, imiaking the Nicar

the lock, exclusive of excavation of the lock site, $2,100,000, making 

$6,300,000 for the three locks of the eastern division, with which may 

the total in the company's estimate of $3,236,000, which the board believ

increased by the substitution of four locks for three, with a correspond

$7,000,000 as the additional allowance of 50 per cent for different conditi

ragua may easily be increased.

CANAL AND CHANNEL DIMENSIONS.-LOCKS.

The 1890 estimates were based upon a lock width of 70 feet. The nex

ment of the width oceiurred in the chief en gineer's Chicago paper, i

states that the width has been increased to 80 feet. In his recent t estimo

73, he finds no objection to this increase from 70 to () feet, except the ci 

S6, referriig to paragraph 12 of the board's report, in whiichi they ex

belief that all locks should have a width of not less than 80 feet if it 

to provide for the passage of war vessels, the chief engineer condem

ge,4tion as objections 11ble, and 1 e regards it uinni necessary to charge the ent

an excess of cost above tihat required for commercial purposes in order 

the passage of a few war vessels. This wilthI of 80 feet an unionieied in 

paper in 1893, has been repeated in all recent publications of the comp

now repudiated and coldemilned.

The board adihere to its 1el i 'f that 80 feet should be regarded as a mini 

in view of the use by the VUnited States G( overwment of the ca nal to facilitate the

movements of its N avy and the cnitrnd of the work in case of wair.

0n padres 58 and 65 of his testi monuy tile chief en gineer ministats the 

of the Suez Canal. He filVe te depth at 26 feet, and the widIth as l

feet. As a matter of fact the least depth in the Suez C:anal at this li

10 inches, and for tlie mo4 )st part it, is 29 feet 6 inches, and the admn ini

poses an ultiimiate depti of 32 feet 10 inches.

The canal, as constricted, was 72 feet wide, with passing places e

intervals in the baink. These passing places have since 1een cliimin

wid emiig of the canal to 110 feet, this widenhig having beeti e(m1ple

exception of 10 or 12 miles out of the 10). It is to be noted, howeve

witi this widening vessels are not permitted to pass each other miderw

two vessels Itieet one jitim st go to the bank and tie up while the other mov

In order to provide for the free navigation of the canal and expedi

ments of sips by rem erini it unnecessary for them to stop, the adini ju

connection witi the increased depth to 32 feet 10 inches, provides for a 

211; feet on the straiigrht stretches of the canal and on curves to 212 feet, 

beino- measured on the io tton of the canal. Witht these widths t lie com

that the navigation will he free and unobstructed.

These dimileiisions are to be compared with the proposed dimensions 

ragua Canal, with bottom on widths in various sections ranging from 120 fe

level portions to 100 feet, with vertical sides in the rock portions, an

several minor isolated sectIoims. The depth is stated as 30 feet, except in 

sections and in the river, where for 30 miles it is to be 28 feet. From t

however, as has been previously noticed, must be deducted the variatio

the chief engineer calls the "average sunnit level," to provide for 

oscillations of the lake surface. 1He estimates these oscillatiois, in o

feet, in another portion of his testimony at 4 feet, and in another place 

the range of the like has been noted as 10 feet.

The board has found reason to believe that the lake has varied so munc

Nieniocal adimiits 10, but no systemtiatic observations have ever been made 

the lake regimen, upon which depends that of the river.

With a range of 4 feet the 28-foot river channel becomes but a 26-foot 

which, allowing for 2 feet as a niiiminn below the keel of a vessel, not

than a 24-foot ship can pass. Shoul this ran ge aniount to so much a

tions be the run existing, way antd nel maximum In Objection 5 channel increasing in with the feet, is the of the 25 santd the case the large and depth river feet lake would is bottom. of maximum nothing dimnensions made dimensions 7 should te becomes within inches, be Suez to impassable deeper the be draft less leaving Canal, 231 of than increased board's which feet. of itan than with with vessels 2 for 10 suggestion feet experience If a feet heavy from smaller. 21-foot the it and permitted be the minimum 125 war found 3 ship reduction that inches feet, has ships, can theimpossible shown in as depth between the as the width pass. in well can sdy depthcompany of 27 of In as tohe be the foreet control each bed in more keelthe proptraddee10 of oeo
3 78 NICARAGUA CANAL.

less tIan 250 feet, with additional widening in the bends, and the ch

onitemis that in our consideration of this subject we have been m

al4g 1 'aiint anee with the requiremeits of tilth hike navigation, with which, apparently, he believes that of the Nicara nia Canal is not justly comparable.

As stated in the board's report the minintuni width for the river and la

oil the lakes is '00 fett, iicreaed in places to 500 and 600 and even 800 fee

be observed that these (dimensions were fixed, not recently, but many 

t lie lake tra Ilic hail attained its present proportions, when the vessels 

sum llr tita i now, ot less draft, an I therefore more manageable in a narr

mnd as a whole \'ery- mich less than the traffic which it is proposed to p

the uase of the NII;Iiar gita Canal.

h'lle St. Cla ire Flats Canal, which forms the exit from the St. Claire R

lake, a wNNork designed and executed thirty or forty years ago, has a w i

ki iks, which are laid out straight and built of timber, of 295 feet, a

tliese vessels are rest ricted to a speed of 5 ( ?) miles ai hour, am are not 

overtake ca1411 other. It is quite certain that in the case of the Lak

channel. ili Ilt as proposed .by the coimiv, witholut constructed banks. n

than :00 feet can yf :Ny possibilitv be estimated for, am the itaintenan

amy navia ble wiElt Ih will req uire the continual use of a dredging machi

tenanice.

The omany il its reference to this oblscures the subject by calling 

clianiels caniaI, wxv it xv it ieh, as a matter of fact, a deepened river channel without

baniks ncal not, it this respect be compared, and it is to be observed tha

of' river chatinel proposed by the oa rt is little in excess of that which 

oel4ft :111(1 expvriEned management of' the Suez Cianal believe to be nece

inl4'sedl t(Irmiel w\xith soft bottom and well-defined banks :iid no curren

With refircEic to the w%\idth ()f the lake channel. which the eompanii no

trms enal lhe hoard believes that it hi1is adopted an egnally sound an

t ive view, 11r is it believed that (il Lake Niiaraga, or in any similar 

cliel ol 1 II iiles an: be laid mit in the open lake through the materia

known forimis the bottomii of the lake xith any less dimtensions than tho

aboard has reIc~lotnlled.

The 1111teari as mbeel d escribed as soft mud, ran in from a thick pea 

top to) s1if1er m11i:terial 0 below, and it is not believed, as bef' savctateld. that eveit Mr.

8ott-s's iiia-ilicelit llhy1ajliic coiistructiont could make a cut through t

aliot 1w a ble to 1iid it had bel i done.

Tii iiost rece it pllp W Sition iin this country for providling an exit for 

wv:Iter frtml iii the lakes 14) the sea, it may be noted, proj Ecls a channel with 

x6it of ;(;o feet.

STATEMENT OF CIVIL ENGINEER MORDECAI T. E

UNITED STATES NAVY, LATE A MEMBER OF THE NIC

CANAL BOARD.

M'. ('ArIAN AND (,4 NTLEMEN OF THE COMMITTEE: In accordanc

inIErStaini it the time xlent my or:il examlinationml before thme comm

I siltimlit Iiw'rewitlh a few taleeinits pertinent to solie of the criticisms 

youi of thr' report of' the Niv'ara gua Caria IIo ard of 1895.

W\lwn Mr. Noble ald I appeared before you at flhat time, at your 

v\2iminmat ion f ook directions leaditig to miayii of the poi'its wv ith respe

rr-t ness E the the report of the board had been 4 questionedd or sought to be

disprov-ed.

I shall avoid useless repetition of anythi ng then said. or of what M

('lmbhodied ill his written staitemlienit. and omitit replies to criticismlls wx'hich 

WrighIt r rchtte to mlat ters of minor importance, confiiiing myself to a 

\hici Semll too 1114' t4) be (if slitffi4ient illportaice to be called to the atte

('On1tili t li 016.t i \\-ere iiot previo'x'slv stated INy m114' beca nse of the p

atinl giveit explainted hoard the of' tion In Itile plrincipIdes is of' ilst) my up as stharbor a ated oral he:mise superior pier, to briel'yv that testiinony in are ont seaward, Mr. lime, I the w bto ld based. hic that Menocal's reaslois April not for tI 1 before of This e then retarditig tlE plais 17, whiy testimony, is GPEYTOWN the (".1ia1 1896. had I correct proposed coiisiidere;I comtitittee time the 'ompliianiy. filling to only page HARBOR. by read the in ill 71, of over so regard plai canal that sand far carefully and as the at company to it the location the boai'd relates mouth all Greytowfor accepof proto tliof th
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

The principal upon which Mr. Menocal builds, as stated in his descri

Nicaragua Canal project, read before the World's Colinibian Water Com

gress. Chicago, 1893, and in numerous other papers a1141 reports, is ha

will he restored by building a jetty perpendicularly to the shore line

seaward about 2,000 or 3,000 feet to the 6-fathom curve, a(d dredIingr in 

The shi ft ing salids, arrested by the jetty, are to gather in the east awnfb

it and the coast, and when it has advanced to the end of the pier, with 

to move around it, short extensions from timo to time ('all be imade, 11

coast line oi the east beconles, ill its go'neral direction, perpentdiciihi;r to 

img ilorthleist winds, when " 110 flirther cb lage Oil the coast ineed then Ile 

and the permanent restoration of the harbor wvill be accomplished."

This principle the board ]ms niot accepted, as I nndersiad1141.

To put out a Jetty to reach a point from which a line drawn 110r111: 

east winds would approximate a direct extension of tho coast li1e, Wi

thiik the attIlinivmeiit of such a lilne of till is exceedlinlerly pridblemli

require the jetty to be about, 3 miles in lewgtli. This w\ouild entail an e

expense--make the cost, greatlY more than a harbor ill the locationi recolm

ilte lo)rd. ani, in my opinion, there is no assurance of'perman4ew(y wlen 

be reached. The investiLrations of the board slht a4W' wasting of the 

eastward and a tilling to the westward, and ill the bight of whliich fi

H arbor was origin ally a part.

The neutral point between these, where there is at present a more n

condition , is about where N the pier or jetty and the harbor 'outh are recon3'entIlII ed

to be established by the board. At this point deep water is 1m ch nea

point is w ithin reach of a jetty. where the new east cost ]iin' will stop 

sand, it will be found here at tonie-tlhird of the 41istatnce nlecessary ill the 

the c:mal company. The sands drift into the GTrvyto'\' wn hi(ht froi 

well as from the east, all(d the comipaly has place4l its works right ill t h

they have to conteml w ith these forces in their greatest stirenlgth, 1ecalu

by Mr. Miller, they " naturally sulpposed that a good place to make al

a, harbor would he where one existed many years before."

I think the bight will be destroyed inevitably, and all entrance at th

posedl. by the comipamiy can be kept open only by dred iig and antiil e

the jetty to ain extraordinary length.

I see nothing il the resil ts at tained when the present pier was constrime

prn~iiliiieincy of entirant'e or restoiration of the harbor. It only sl4w wv

attained it' the drifting of the sAanid: across 11h4 enitranice could ib 

arrested. How far a jetty or pier Would have to extend to effect this. i

not demonstrated.

The locations proposed by tile board -will Ile fould, 1 m1111 con ident, to he 

for a harlbor of the same character al almplitilme, taking into conls

future maintenance.

Of the ob jections to the plan recommendeil by the 1hoartl, Mr. Mil

Menocal regard one as (1c lusive, naniely, that it locates the enitrzance in 

territory.

Mr. Miller, on page 12 of the testimony, states: 'li refereiice to the 

the harbor being moved a mile mill a half east, I would say that. il the 

we coid not go there. If we wxtnt there we W04ltd he ill Cost:l 1Ric;ii t

01117 concession eicmands that the canal sha;ll begin anld ('11(l ill Ni'araiglam

Mr. Menocal, oil page 71 of the testimony. states: "he Governieint o

will not assent to it. The canal concession provides 1hat the comipimv 

one first-class harbor o01 the coast of Nicaragua at each terminus of th

the Atlantic anl Pacitic oceans."

The ('onicessiOn) from Nicararua, of 1887, as printed in Ifouse Ueport No

third Coingress, second session, states ill the liecree, on pa gt' 23. " 1oth 

cielit POwA-ers, have entered inlto t he follvin g contract for the exca

interoceanic canal throgli the territory of Nicaragua.

In Article XVI, oun page 26, it states:

p11rpose, Iargt.e tlieo No. two ashe In All " ''The tIhat it The localities (anal." 1201. large the may* the ports, wvith association V company contract select as italics ports, select follows: one Nicaagua, which on one i1ith1i are ill shall xviththe shall on mine. the or the construct, coasts Costa Atlntic surveys it coistriet, iwithoitt A is tlantic livea of' provide maythe and the at of and( at is ed twN-o indicate 1$Ss, territory one its expense, one inl oCeans, expense, ill Article confirmed on the as the of and prefierable.- within Pacific. Costa Pacitic, XIV, anti naintai more shall page Rica, the atthan ii keep suich territory 8, in to good ne of serve .It iiiIoiiitSle Val($0o

c

ofah
NICARAGUA CANAL.

These provisions do not seem to me to demand that the ports or term

withii Nicarauiian trritory. They appear to me to provide simply tha

Ile. BIut this nIay be a matter for legal construction.

DREDGING AT GREYTOWN.

coiisideralde effort has been made to show, during the hearings befor

Inmit 1e, that fl1 estimate of the board of 2 5 cents per cubic yard for the 

retowni 11iiirbor, is excessive. 1 

As ex p1:liile(l in Ilie report, this estimate is based upon 20 cents for 

a iik ati 10 cciits for work inlieentrance, an average of 25 cents bingiised.

Tdi ill Moile i llarbor, now beint'. dm at a cost of 77 cents per cubic

yarld, is miist dlwelt upon as evidence of an excessive estimate.

The cout of all dI'eulgiiig is depenldent iipoin tle conditions obta1li

sit tt ioii, els whyv does it v ary in this county from a few cents to 60 cen

y ar i To b Iylc ta'' ot of 7$ cents at Mobile should govern an estimiate at Grvytown, \vithoit coisiderinig the relative conditions, is no fairer than it 

clim t l:It the cost of (liredgig at (Ialveston, at 60 cemits per cubic yard

)I-t fiscal year, sliomild detrine an estimate of 60 cents for dredging i

II a ulhor.

Ihe 1 iiterial in Mobile I a rbor being removed for 7- cents per cubic ya

:ls 90 pwr coini soft clay-river 11111( . It is ideal dredging, exactly adfailt

I-at fIs ii hl---'aIII-shI l d i'edgcs. TI I iIaclhinelry is si IIle, easily aid che

trdri; lit, fiel is chea p; hIle labor is cheap; the situation, a simiothi in te

the dejIli, extremie, 2: f'et; inl short, everytliniig favors small cost.

A\ notlier voitract inl sanme harbor, completed jiist as the above began, 

0 pr ceit saud awl wr ceiit clay, was at 15 cents per cubic yard, 

im i'rIil si per it sand was for It;." cents.

A I ( dIlvestmi tle prices IhIve been, with in a very recent period, 121 to 

dr-ed'i- on th, hnr bein :;5 coits, all seow mneastirieiits.

II Mobile lie 77 ceiits contract is for the 111ud Imlea scored in scows. 

l':isiIr4'.s s0unitewlere 1romIu ;0 to 40 per cecit more in 'scows than ili hlie cu

The (lredging"' at ICreytown is esti mated in th cut, neat diimensions, and 

is ad

Athl lo tile price for nud dredging at Mobile at 7, vents, 35 per cent 

lileilt in cit over lIi:isurIieieiit in scows, a proper Iicrease for sand 

pri[opir increase for a dc'ptli of 30 feet over onle of 23 feet, also incre:ise

fiil. skilled labor, the establishim'nt of a rep:ir-shop plant in Nicaragu

aie iliitic colltitions, etc., a(d it must be seen tlhat the price of the 

,,woild cost 21) cniits per cmibic yard, as estniated by the board, upon the 

iow nok ]eill' done at M obile.

Tiw hod: estimated 10 cents for outside work, also measured in th

COi(tin 3'( celits at Calveston, miieasIured in scows.

'Ile ;Ibove work. inlstc:ml oft vitiating, recall warriants the boari's es

se'V to pon thi (i'e e)ror o drlwinlig conic(lisionls froll prics paid at 

phinl it liolt tc';rntiil 1 lconsideratioll of all the eircumistainces.

TI'ie 1o:d11 tOk into view all the conditions a.(1 endeavored to arrive 

1411soablI esti mate.

BENARD LA4OON.

With ri ar to lie change of locations of the line to avoid the Bena

tlhs i> only I 11cstionl of the b 1arInt in case examinaions of the lago

(f l iht ilt i i I i t(,(1 at thi1 (,1ItlItI Inco.

The pmssibilitv of fidini(lilf th' ronljditionis fe:Iredl by flit bolal' is not I 

It thl-y :r- 'oiield we t h 1lint' shou1illd be ('hiaingedl to avoid it. O(iir eslimites,

Iowev\r, ao' n1t f'r a chaie r V lie, but or tlie present location of Hie company.

l y h t 1' bo:I1rd, 4\(,esS makes 4:1n1d , ripmrt to work ThI'o In Ill ih' t1141 arn oril his , \ iin witlon v'tiii;mtf of vhicli hI) a ltei presn('ti v t testiinoiiv all1 t Ile fiitiI4undation. fall, pr10opm'sose eIry is list [se, chhonite sumIhnitied ,4110,000,o, t'Stimioiiiy, in 1)1 as New 'ompy, lelor viou set sitft id Yor-k, def'nso fol attempts in to ls the es besides the r1114, to Inhe coimiittee, b was, slow ;im following li4, of t hoard (Iliht ' OCIIOA for cllahravteli/es of 'oieillt hsthe ilte this dlinilti k\ 41:i11u, and words, coiiImliav. DAM. Mr. dani, iing if's inas Ml4'oifl ad:oversely aindl his oi it the 977,273, danigeirs page wans written estiimato' when proposed 64: in upon which its statement, co1- "I it (If the rgard was was toI Hie ibarbe mn$2hb
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

of $1,500,000 for strengthening the dam as a gross exaggeration, and I 

otIev r es t i1a1 v of $1,50 000) to take away the Ilow of the river duri g the c

of the <zlI as dangerous 114 likely to lead to disaster."

Now. referring t4o his testimony on page 60, he states, describing th

propose to give it a base iif abouit1 1,000 feet" (in the script ion of the 

bY lim to the bward mniler date of September 14, 1895, he states this 

will Ie pro idblv froim 100 to 500 feet), and oil page 57, in reply to ani il

what l1e estimated the ci st of t he Ochoa dam, lie is said to lhvie repli

of $3,000,00 ,' wlich, as I now 1tniderstaiid, he has corrected to t2,IiI 

latter stiatemlieits indicate anything it is that since the bird mnnde its r

lie proper dimensions and cost of this structilre Ile has doubled filie w

base and increased its estimated cost front about $,IYO,000 to abotit $2,1

the board's estimate of $1,500,000 to strengtlien it is a gr oss exao-,eratio

stmin(liI. lie seemits 11ow to estimate CO 1,000,400 r that very purpose.

Notwithstanding his stremuols op position to the views of the bhomA i

this strucitre lie seems to have coicluded to thid h w them sonic mxwat closely 

matter of what its dinmellsionis should be, and the canal comipaiiy is to b

lated iupon this step in the right direction, if this apparent change of m

Menocal mleais that the company's project has enjoyed a siniiiar aItera t 

As Mr. Menocal's testimony develops that he is not now, aid never h

engineer of the Maritime Canal C(omiipany, and is not now the eilliniecr 

struictioin company, it is not kiown whether his present statemiiets as 

would do are to be reairded as a clhaii-e of the project of the laritlmle 

pany. When Mr. Meiocal presented to the board the iiiaps, data, and pr

Maritime Canal Company the board had that coplanmy's authloriy to r

as authoritative. \W hetlher in his statements before vomr committee e 

the Maritime Canal Coinpany, the construction compally, or himself

advised.

In any event, so far as the merits of the review of the MAI aritime Calial 

projei-t by the board is coicernwd, they are to be considered [lilt diswns

the plans and projects as theY existed when the board considered them ia

report, and not upon wv hat Mr. Menocal now says, in the light of the B

cisms, he would mnake ihei.

li the present defense of what the company proposed or lie propos

cho a, Mr. Meniocal relies within most stress and particuiarity upon exp

India in the following g words: Ii searching for precedents of rock-till or 

danis built on sandy bottom to withstand the flow of lirge volimies of 

their tops, we will Iiave to look at the irrigation works of litnia, where su

of construction have been in practice for many years,' etc.

I acknowleJIge the richliess of the field in India for the study of all 

to works of irrigation iand the storage of water by means of dats; 

search for examples illustrating g the application and effects of principles 

the conistruction of dams, while investigating the problem at ()h oa, 

most fruitful and fascinating field ; bit I do not now recall a siuge rock

muiderstood in this country, avnd proposed at Ochoa, in all [lia.

I et us see what are the structures referred to, and of whiich live :ire 

cited and described by Mr. Meiocal on page 75, and upon which lie 

similar others, as precedents Ior the success of the Ochioa DIlam as linteied

.110 islir.-Refereice is first made to ' rough stone weirs at, tile heads of 

irziga tion channels in \l aisur, which ra ise the level of the water to t

height, the lowest being 7 feet aniid the highest 25 feet."

It will be interesting and valuable to quote the description of these 

by an Enluish en i neer of experience in India, as follows:

"ha' ordiairy stone dam or anient iin 11;aisurvairies froi 7 to 25 feet in 

consists of a mass of dry rubble, faced witht large stories, paced on a roc

front Casing f sto nes 031 feet by IA feet by 1 foot, the rear aprons of 

blocks 9 by 8) by 2 feet, each stone project ti Ig for oiie-thl ird of its length 

above it, or about 2) feet. The interstices are tilled witl small ruib

works are unsta be and leaky, allowiIg all t hue sumler dislia rge to esca

supplying breached. the prssure class ril of fveThese Wilon, Muddem.-If large instead width times of work, illustrations blocks against referrinmmg between the of The of the channels and tohe of dims then the river. stone "Mudden" indicate 1842 to homogeneity are gave these in in aid and ilooil." Curved Thie seasons a the rough 1863." skillful fair crown weir fallacy and of idea stone of referred F1lo11, application point the is of of lower weirs work. the trusting when upstream, to attention at near in agaitt of heads Notwitistanhinuz the to material, the size next they of given headand channels paragraph are aetigth the sluices by position hi easily the dam the in nato wMdais oI
:s2 NICARAGUA CANAL.

dtr " of the same district, it also is founded upon rock. It is to be obs

was reconstrtuited and a bori(ck anl mortar wall introduced across its up

Atr.-The A 'ra weir is cited as representing a quite usual type of 

]milt in sa ny bottomis, with crest 10 feet above river bed, and length o

Tie flood dischairge is said to be as high as 1,800,000 cubic feet per sec

di.'pthl of* waer over the rest about 10 feet.

The history of this weir is most interesting and instructive, and I th

spl e to a brli'ief description of it and its vicissitudes.

This wir is said to have the greatest width in cross section of any w

As iiallv constructed, for it went through various stages of design, it 

by several I a uthors as having first, two longitudinal solid masonry wal

to 1 lie bed of the river, about 30 feet apart. About 40 feet below the se

a third, 1 feet U) inches hiLh.

Thl tupstrcin slope is hand packed and laid dry. On the downstrea

int 'rvas Iieween the walls are filled with large rubblestone, and ve

dry parked with very large rubble on top. The rubble used in the pac

1ar1-c, some stolnes being as much as 6 feet by 3 feet by 2 feet, the wa

iarVs to pre\elit them sliding.

Thie'e aI'e 1; slhijes in this weir, each 6 feet wide by 10 feet high. The 

Weir is 11) feet a above the Iloors of the tinder slh ices. The weir and und

filludeil upon the sandy bed of the river wvithout any foundation below

slUices aIre flolnded upon blocks or wells sunk to depths of from 9 to 

hlnartied with concrete.

The colistrilction of this weir was begun in 1870, but it was very ba

befOre its I-mipletion by a llood which nearly carried away the head 

s1lwved out :I hole 50 feet deep at the end of the floor. The velocity o

of the weir a;I this ime was 9.3 feet per second, and was estimated to l

SMcc*111(1 sole GO feet Ibelov the crest. I)Iringj (r several successive vears th

was carried a vay, and cliangies each year made in its design and coIs tr 

in 1 s75 it had been built of such i rm aind dimensions and by such metho

it 1) witlistaii Il the flools. The ilooul action on the rear slope, althoug

ver' severe. E vel ill its filial siape engineers have expressed lftbts of 

Th11 :wcompanying plan shows the successive changes ini construction 

tII eli1a0c it to withstand a Ilood, mich less stressful, as we shall see, th

(hi a )a Dam is likely to ieet. It will be seen that its first construction, in 1870, was

11111ch siiperior to that pro posed at (choa , not only as related to the (li

Iiit liel sc, anid yet it was iiadeqtiate; and it nmulerwent various changes

xhiIi was a -, ill greater delpa rtinre from any semblance to the contemp

I amI, and ili final outu'omie is a hand-made weir of the imiost careful and stilislalitial

cost rutioimi, \\ii eli, since its finalreconstruction in 1875, has apparently 

out seliouS njrily.

IMr. Alteliocal sa tes that the flood disha rge is as high as 1,80, e1

>e'ond. the depth of water over thle crest Ibcing 10 fret.

It this 'timionlit of water tom ed over the daiim, of the depth stated, 

W h le about 50 feet per second, 01' over 8 I miles per hour. This s

iucr'dible. In the flom of 1871, when it was partially destroyed, the 

the cre'I xv:is only feet poer second.

It is pidlbable. thirefore, tit the stateiiient of Mr. Buckley xxho is 

upoi iiri'aiion indiaI that the distharge of the river in ligh, flood i

1 0,ii tO 4i Iii e feet p'r seollnd is the correct one, and the sluices, to which 

xxs pass luad' a colisidoraible portion of Ihis.

I lere is a low wier, only 10 feet Itigh, with a long, flat slope of 1 in 3

hitilt ill the dr,, with a masory crest wall extending down to the riv

c:11.0r1i1l y iac kc'd suirfa1cv of' h]leavy stone, inalble to stand the flow of 

feet per sreI"Id, pricis''i ,y the fow w'lhich the board attributes to the 

>hhia, blit spread out in a thiiner sheet, and which Mr. Metnocal, 

a ug1Wer, on 1 page 64, calls an iisignilicauit stream. It was so badly damaged year

a Iter v-i ;' at hood seasons that it took the dry seasons of five years 

stlte ot, deciihes siuk 1the instead by pIaces. iIve picked According dropping and fourth Ingthen done frmii I, paving of lv Weir.-The as G buildiin0 it alld sulistanitial thing to being lt loose with 6 tohe fifth feetbring stonesimilar add in theories and w'eir in piaragraiphs ti itioial aId the it r'e-voinstructinr oi next dry to up careful sandy adlvaneed the tihe to mIasi seasons, mentioned a site Agra, of bed condition inry, hi;indwork for page of incross buit previously this the the behal 7t walls, by carried weir floods of river, of after Mr. f and comparative testimony, of in heavy':lnd described, tohree Menocal thee on the dispose design operation cainal masonry dry substantial this satfetv. is seasons, in and company's descrilied

the was their hand- walls as on Soanrestly all wiprb
OKHLA WEIR-AGRA CANAL.

I ery/h 74yInees.

-H. LF. L 

*. R.p. *.II fl

H0I~p 119 _ 1

DAM OF AGRA CANAL, OKHLA, INDIA.

Transrerse sections at different dates 1870-1873.

Secf on before floods 1870.

to 7 20

Sechon be5foref oc 1671.

< 36 QK4x 180

Sec tion 9flerflao s 1871.

- - - 7 20

Sanc.- 

< 36 4 x 180

Section n 1872

40 x4x 26 4

Secion in 1873

4< 40 >4

40 x 26 114 1,30

40Sec lion Comnpe.

^In > in 20

40 4 2G '14x 180-

0 40 //o 10 /30 140 I50 160 170 180 190 200 210 220 230 240 25

Scale of feet.

S. Rhp. 119--41i

IsP0 ---- -30"- -0 

OUNDE - m LVER WING OF UNDLRSLUICE

u UE L yE ~o A 

VvP -

c *.

2 '0 -- ~- /00 - 9 

SECTON OF THE SOANE WEIR, 12,469 FEET LONG

S ,(,ll. I 109-5 -1
es

9

KISTNA WEIR BEZWARA)

SCALE OF FEE /0 po E70 40

H/GH/ FLOOD. SECTION IN DEEP BE.

S20'0'-'-- 74 0 - - - - - - ----- - - - - - - - -/0---- ----

,9tqBL E MASQONf~

*ASWL4RWU.L F4th ot AroNt

-.- -110. a .-.-

S. litp. 1 IOI--5I -- 1
NICARAGUA CANAL. 

keep the small stone in place. Between the walls is a simple stone pac

gives the height, including depth of wells, as 19.3 feet, and flood dischar

cubic feet per second.

'Tlie above description is apparently derived from Mr. Wilson. Other au

the depth of the foundation wells as 10 feet. The spaces between these 

wells are filled in with concrete, making a continuous foundation extendi

below the bed of the river than the top of the weir rises above it. The 

the crest of the weir is only S feet above the river bed.

The paving between the masonry walls is hand-packed and laid dry 

rubble stone. The down-stre:nu slope is very f]at-1 in 20. The entire 

portions of the weir consist of large stone blocks dry packed, the miasonry 

ong as bars to prevent sliding. Further, the weir is pierced w ith three sets 

with a total of 56 openings of 20 feet 7 inches each, which pass a conside

tion of the floods. One important office performed by these uniderslitices 

that the discharge through them helps to till up the river channels below 

floods, and so redwues the action of the floods on the weir itself'. The we

submerged before the flood attains its greatest height, which is 8 feet ove

with an afflux of only 15 inches.

If the imiportant modification of the stress on the weir effected by the 

were disreL*arded and the entire extreme flood were supposed to pass ove

the velocity would be only about 10 feet per second on the crest over a 

weir, but tie sluices pass about one-third of the flood. The banks of th

hard soil with somne nodular limestone mixed with it.

"In order to prevent the destruction of this weir by the action of flo

grynes of a peculiar shape, called alligator groynes, are constructed on 

up and down stream sides at intervals across the chapel."

Professor 1)avidson states that ''notwithstanding the good workma

apparent securitv of the foundation for the scouring sluices, the floo

proved very destructive, and not only tore away the river bed to a depth 

below the too of the talus, but in part tore away the heavily packed 

between the lower wall and that next above, and even partly damaged 

The river bed scoured out above as well as below. 

is very similar to that at the headworks of the Agra Canal."

Jhicada Weir.-This is the fifth and last of the Indian weirs adduced a

or precedents of rock-fill dans.

This weir is founded on a double row of wells sunk 7 feet into a san

The sandstone runs down to the river on each side of the weir. On te 

wells there rises a massive wall of rubble masonry 13 feet high, 12 feet 

feet top, coped with ashlar. Behind this wall a mass of rouigh stone of 

to 5 and 6 tons in weight was deposited. At 100 feet back another wall 

it being 6 feet below crest of the weir.

Betw een the walls the surface of the weir is packed with the largest st

on end, the interstices being filled as far as possible by quarry shivers ja

into them. 1;ehind this second wall the apron of the weir is continued f

another 100 feet with large stones, the slope about 1 in 16. At high flood

the water flows over the crest 20 feet deep, the weir is subluerged, and 

flows over with scarcely a ripple on the surface. One year ago a short len

body wall was.torn away.

Temporary dry stone walls, 4 feet high, were annually built on the cr

purpose of diverting more water in the dry season, and after the ston

washed off by the floods they were used in the repair of the apron. This 

the massive and heavily paved slope is damaged in floods and that repair

every year when the work is dry. The entire flood of 736,000 cubic feet per second mentioned does not al

the weir. It is to be noted that this weir has undersluices, with 60 open

wide each, which pass a large amount of the water and help to till up th

below as the floods rise, and make the weir a submerged one early in the 

I have been somewhat full in the description of these Indian weirs, b

are for dam much. (p. methods charges weirs same As I Viewed 14) presented the do can already office. are not asconstruction of be proposed being failures. as approve, the successfully examples stated by river, built Mr. by however, in They proposed and Menocal in my the of the constructed its andre testimony construction same use of not precedents (p. by the for the 75) manner. the attempt the at bfore as same canal Ochoa, purposes examples company, for kind the at such company and the committee, of of construction of exposed structure the construction a rock-fill weir at report Ochoa; after I to and believe dams, of the and completthe of do and entire use this not and boathby thp
384 NICARAGUA CANAL.

in the first place. the Indian weirs are not to be considered as st

1me (Of Iem INy, inded, perform that office for ita short time in the 

T'lho\ are built a obstructions, to slightly elevate the river surface and d

of its Iho\ into irrigation and other channels.

ThIic iniliscriminale use of the teriml " weir,' as descriptive of the Ocho

of tilie term " ro- k -lill dan," as aioplied to the Indian weirs, must not cau

to lose sigIht (F)I tle great a tid important distinction between these tw

sltl et lires, Iv \whii 'I it is souhit to present the sometimes successful an

(IiSalstrmls low and caretllv bilt siibilerged weirs of India, as promi

ill a ih r111iotik-fill storage dam at, Ochoa to he built and used in a hazard

aIl whliielh is to be the kestoone of a project to cost, perhaps, $150,000,00

Thl Iilii ire (d this dam would liberate the largest quantity of wa tei ever set free

at oice in lthe history of the world.

I do not think there is a single rock-fill dam in all India, or a singl

tick-lill weir. even, in the sense ot a rock-lill as intended at Ochoa.

TIhere are, ifldied, in the head works of the Gangies, three Weirs, bu

howl hors, crtssin the river one behind the other, but these are temp

dtstryed cac yea r by the Iloods, and it has beilen found necessary to r

ninal ly. new howIders bei g brought dowi for the purpose, as the 

canr i I too far a\V a\y w lie tIle dains are wrecked to be econlom ically col

Mr. Wilson st:ttes "only rarely are teliporary weirs constructed sim

bow-li ers." They are almost always constructed substantially of maso

well foti tded.

'le )lals which I have introduced in this text will serve to show m

the etrefilt constritetion o the Indian weirs quoted, their low height

itit Ii ght- water pessure, their long easy slopes, and tle fact that they 

1iihl s a bmo'i weirs, licir slpties enjoying this conflition as well as 

walls aniii heavy carefully packed paving to protect theiii.

T 1i oa I ):ai wot ild be submerged in its earlier stages of construct

in lie Liter, alo ni never after completion. Its slope would be of stones deposited at

r;iMllomt, without cross walls to protect, it, and three- Fourths of it ex

times to the unobstiructed rush of the waters down its steep declivity.

In lie rolistriclinn of the Indian weirs a velocity of 15 feet per seco

sl1e is regr;rdied as a maximum. The velocity down the inproved rear 

)ilioa iam, during the company's construction, is quite certain to reac

seco11, prihiaps very imich higher.

The caial companies have no plan for the Oclioa Darn, so that I am una

d llte one, bit I have shown its outline as intlicated by the written 

fiiirniisled to the board, and sulperimposed it on the Agra weir. with whi

closely compnarei by Mr. Menocal.

I'lese pu us also show more clearly to the eye the great difference 

Indian weir anld the ( choa , Dam, and that they have little in common 

tioni, dinitelsionsi, steepness of slope, height, head of water to be r

exposure of slope to the action of floods.

So fial are they from being exam ples promnising success, that at least 

cited by Mr. Metocal, from the testimony of authlirs conversant wit

si riking warnings of the dangers of the particular methods intended 

comiipany.

if the ind Iianl weirs, many are built to be destroyed every tlood seaso

rebuilt in the dry seasom. others are built to be partially destroyed 

ev ery loml, a11)(I few escape injury.

Tlese conlit itns must not obtain with the Ochoa Dam.

Too much depeis upon it.

It must Ile bilit wit hout these risks and used without them.

To avoid these dangers, tme board outlined in some degree the method 

tin it wou l suuggtest, including the control within certain limits of th

thIe lo, i Odu waters to be allowed to 11 ow over the dan during construction, 

I ion in tHie diy to 120 feet above the sea, and its absolute lmnmuity front 

of ctoiditiolls til tii the fet posible, Both Fr ins water canal very per and Imself, Mr. exaniple ecolt OVer and methods eiii to Miller whici should its Iany tI (sce i crest cited and conteniplated study est lhey Chlicago be inmates Mr. and assuned. by of are Menocal down Mr. FLOODS the paper, the subjected, Menocal, highest construction by its p. IN theake slope 19), SAN and board flood issue onlywhile therafter. JUAN the should in of confirm with results, the the the RIVER. board the San irrigation be my not .Juan followed. board considers opinion at only Ochoa in weirs ints 63,000 that tha

genstaco
fhfiqk Flood above Darn.

OKHLA WEIR-AGRA CANAL F -' Jentk74,3retres . tg lOO, 7neeow Jar.

17FL. 4xFL

Ay -79S- - -- -- - - 4-- -

APIi' NIMATE OUTLINE OF OCIIOA DAM A" PROPOSED BY CANAL COMPANY WHEN NEAR COMPL ETION IN BROKEN HEAVY LiNES. -

S. Ep. 1109--54-1

NICARAGUA CANAL. 

The gentlemen beg the (<Iiestion by assertiiig that it was assumed that 

mum lloodi might reach G-,),()60 cubic feet per secool, tihat this was don bled, and

provision iinde for a discha rge of more tmii this over tho weirs, etc.

''he board has not questioned the matter of disclhrin iu,- 150,oo0 cidbic 

second over the weirs.

Ile board's statement had reference to the maxinnun flood to be eicou ni 

han(led in the constro ction of the Ochoa Dam and other works, and it r

correct, from the Ciicago and other papers, that 68,04) cubic feet per seco

maximum flood the coilimpany has considered hamllin iln this part of its wo

trouble with this flood is 'lot in passing it off whlen the pro , joct is complete

handling it during construction. Mr. Meniocal claims to have weirs eniough

charge it after completion, but denies that as munich as one-half of it will h

tered in coistruction. See the pa pers referred to.

Mr. Meiocal claiis a hiiigh flood nel mearemiient of 42,010 bii c feet per second, but

states that, as the river has been known to rise higher, lie a iods 50 per 

assumes I 81) culic Ieet per second. The board's possible 150,00l cubi

cii aracteriz 'es is " a romgh and excessive iu ss.

The board had the gulg ig of 14c,0 )bic feet referred to by Mr. Men

while the exact location is not knownu the cross section is kiiovii anil appro

the level , and froimi tle data llydraullic forumla give approximately hlie 

char'e at its lii-2hest recor Iele v~ation, which record of heigllt the Coimpanly ha , to

be nearly 125,()';() ii lic fet per second . Tlierefore 150,000 is not a rough anid 

guess, but must be approximately correct.

SLOPE IN SAN JUAN RIVER.

The boa r, in its report, stated that the slope of the river in the dry seas

be so small that it woulil amount to practically nothing instead of 4 feet as 

in the canal company's project.

Mr. Menocal, in his testimony, adhieres to his original estimate of thre

of an inch per mile.

Mv eollea gue, Mr. Noble, refers to this matter in his statement, and I o

mention here of the fact thi at Mr. Meocal, in Iiis estimated of the slope, rel

upon observed Slopes in tHie river under present cond itiins between lie 

Toro andi ill the Aouas Muertas. le appears to overlook the great change

slopes whici h must occur when the level of the river s urfiae is raised at( ic

60 feet above its low stage manl when tie river is dreilogei1 from Toro to the 

This rise more thaii doubles tle aver:i 4e dep it h in the A .guias M lierta

cross section is increased about 300 per cenit, and ot her coilditi0ns re(lucini 

are a lectediI accordinigly. The ruling conditions front the lake to Ioro als

g'reaItlv different w hen the river is raised.

If tlie average cross sections of the river, constructed for the boird's enic

are correct, and the coeflicient of rougihness of the clinnel is correct v ass

hydrauilic formula a miulist o-ive approximately correct results for certaiin d 

FortI un tely all opportunity offered to check these data for one-half the 

o

the river. Colonel Ch ibIs, in his admirable report of Iis 1srvevs for a ship 

this route, made in IK52, gives the measu red slooe of the river from thl

Toro, amid also the hci glt of the lake and the gia ged discharge of the la

same time.

As the results of the calculations of the board d offered so greatly from tlios

in thle comi panv's project, I looked patientN ly l some imealis of testing 1r work, and

find ing these data in Colonel Chiilds's report I applied our average section

bed anl coefficients, aiid with his oservedl lake elevation and nleasured d

calctilated a slope fron the hike to Toro 01 2 feet against y

by Iiimi. This satisfied me th at the data 1se1 by the boar(l were suhstaltitall

It is interesting, to siiow the great change of slope due to the elevation o

to 110 feet, and the increased section of the river d1e to dredging, to note 

the same discliarge observed by Colonel C hilds, the sanie data gives, by 

hydraulic Toro project Nicaragua, about onie-alf lower in of It And vessels the The is to as 10,0 requirement only wheii for Ochoa canal N the of formula, a C- that- a the distance lake cuibiC rling question the shall is same 2stillwil same 5feet a of depth ibe slope to size less. Ilictuate article of of data pCIr Ochloa, hiow sufficient as of of second, What the 28 and 2 little much of below to feet large tle the about more more dimflensions the of same steamers 110 concession, water is project slope than 1.2 feet necessary formula inches, will one-ha sin above for will used ks,f:al now the fail arend. to for Ifin the to free satisfy a as this in ocean applied sea? contract, mani -lie innily being and distance of festly, Mr. navigation coimodiou

24 inches. with a 28-foot feet, withMelocaof the a and disthe 28 sc
38(3 NICARAGUA CANAL.

and America." * To give the separate and detailed calculati

bv members of the board, with t all the calculations of coefficients C, 

and tedious approximations for slope in the application of Kutter's f

1e not readily understood by any but engineers and mathematicians an

a considerable document in itself.

D espite the long, tedious, and painstaking labor the board has d

mathematical determination of this slope in 69 miles of the river, 

careully obtained data it could obtain, Mr. Menocal declares its 

opinion, "unwarranted and inadmissible," as opposed to his gess, f

claim or pretense that he or any engineer of the canal company has e

or attempted to compute the slope of the San Juan River. Ile has sim

what it would be when raised to practically the level of the lake by t

from observations of its slope at two sections in the river as it flows t

its banks, 18 to 60 feet less in depth than it will be when a part of th

of the canal.

s
9

4
Dete Due
Hearings on House bill 35 (on the Ni l

TC 784,U58 1896

3 1262 02254 663
AO

Vp,

-To