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88–278 PDF 2014

S. Hrg. 113–441 

NOMINATIONS OF L. REGINALD BROTHERS, JR., 

AND HON. FRANCIS X. TAYLOR 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

NOMINATIONS OF L. REGINALD BROTHERS, JR., NOMINEE FOR UNDER 

SECRETARY FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 

HOMELAND SECURITY, AND HON. FRANCIS X. TAYLOR, NOMINEE FOR 

UNDER SECRETARY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

MARCH 5, 2014 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

MARK BEGICH, Alaska 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

JOHN P. KILVINGTON, Acting Staff Director 

HARLAN C. GEER, Senior Professional Staff Member 

CARLY A. COVIEO, Professional Staff Member 

DEIRDRE G. ARMSTRONG, Professional Staff Member 

KEITH B. ASHDOWN, Minority Staff Director 

CHRISTOPHER J. BARKLEY, Minority Deputy Staff Director 

ANDREW C. DOCKHAM, Minority Chief Counsel 

DANIEL P. LIPS, Minority Director of Homeland Security 

WILLIAM H.W. MCKENNA, Minority Investigative Counsel 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

LAUREN M. CORCORAN, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 1 

Senator Coburn ................................................................................................. 3 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 19 

Senator Coburn ................................................................................................. 21 

WITNESSES 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 5, 2014 

L. Reginald Brothers, Jr., Nominee for Under Secretary for Science and 

Technology, U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 24 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 29 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 49 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 51 

Responses to post-hearing questions .............................................................. 75 

Letters of Support ............................................................................................. 80 

Hon. Francis X. Taylor, Nominee for Under Secretary for Intelligence and 

Analysis, U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 83 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 87 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 104 

Responses to post-hearing questions .............................................................. 127 

Letters of Support ............................................................................................. 131 

(1) 

NOMINATIONS OF L. REGINALD BROTHERS, 

JR., AND HON. FRANCIS X. TAYLOR 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 5, 2014 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in room 

342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper, 

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Carper and Coburn. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN CARPER 

Chairman CARPER. Good morning. Our hearing will come to 

order. 

Dr. Coburn will join us momentarily, but today we meet to consider the two nominations for important positions at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)—Dr. Reggie Brothers to serve as 

Under Secretary for the Science and Technology Directorate (S&T) 

and retired Brigadier General Frank Taylor to serve as Under Secretary of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A). 

I am pleased to see that President Obama continues to put forth 

well-qualified nominees to fill the leadership vacancies in critical 

components such as each of these. 

The work done by the men and women at the Science and Technology Directorate cuts across all of the components and missions 

of this Department. They are responsible for harnessing cuttingedge technology, and research and development (R&D) projects 

that help Department personnel and their partners be more effective in carrying out their missions and responsibilities. 

Dr. Brothers comes to us from the Department of Defense (DOD), 

where he serves as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Research. In that position, he is responsible for policy and oversight 

of the Department of Defense science and technology programs, 

ranging from basic research through the development of advanced 

technologies. He is also responsible for long-term strategy for the 

Department’s science and technology programs. 

In addition to his work at the Department of Defense, Dr. Brothers also has significant experience in the private sector working in 

laboratories. He clearly has a breadth of hands-on technical expertise that he will bring to the Department of Homeland Security. 

In this budget environment, we need to make important decisions on how to spend limited funds and are forced to do more with 

less. However, we still have to stay ahead of the evolving threats 
2 

from both man-made and natural sources. I look forward to hearing 

from Dr. Brothers today as he seeks to do that. His background in 

managing science and technology projects at DOD make him a 

great fit for this important role. And I hope that we can move your 

nomination quickly. 

General Taylor’s nomination has been referred to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. However, this Committee is afforded the option of holding hearings on that nomination, and we 

are doing that today. 

The Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Intelligence 

and Analysis, serves as the hub for homeland security intelligence. 

I&A was born out of a clear information-sharing need exposed after 

September 11, 2001. The office connects the U.S. Intelligence Community with the private sector, with our State and local partners, 

and DHS’s various components. 

Over the years, I&A has endured its fair share of criticism for 

its analytical output, for its mission within the U.S. Intelligence 

Community (IC) and for its role in helping our Nation’s fusion centers do a better job sharing information. 

Compounding matters, the office has been without a Senate-confirmed leader for the past 15 months. That is simply too long for 

such a critical position. 

Make no mistake, however, the interim leader of late, Principal 

Deputy Under Secretary John Cohen, has done an exemplary job 

addressing the challenges that I&A faces, and we thank him for his 

stewardship. 

However, in order to take the next step in its maturation, I&A 

needs the leadership that only a Senate-confirmed Under Secretary 

can provide. The Senate can do something about that right now, 

and that is by quickly confirming General Taylor. 

Like Dr. Brothers, General Taylor comes well equipped to handle 

the task before him. His 35-year career in the Federal Government 

includes key positions in counterintelligence, law enforcement and 

counterterrorism. Moreover, for the past 9 years, General Taylor 

has worked to enhance the security of one of the largest, and I 

think best, companies in the world; that is General Electric (GE). 

I am confident that General Taylor is the right person for the 

job, and I will push for a speedy confirmation. General Taylor, 

should you be confirmed, we look forward to working with you to 

improve this office and the vital information sharing over the coming months and years. 

And, with that having been said, again, we welcome you, and I 

am going to turn it over to Dr. Coburn, who I believe has already 

been part of a hearing with you, General Taylor, in his role on the 

Intelligence Committee. Dr. Coburn. 
3 

1The prepared statement of Senator Coburn appears in the Appendix on page 21. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COBURN 

Senator COBURN. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this 

hearing. 

I want to thank both of our nominees for their willingness to 

serve. They both come as very qualified individuals. 

I have a prepared statement for the record that I would like to 

be placed.1

Chairman CARPER. Without objection. 

Senator COBURN. And I would note that both areas these gentlemen are going to fulfill leadership roles in fit very well with what 

Secretary Jeh Johnson has planned for getting the Department of 

Homeland Security to where it needs to be. 

And, again, I would thank you for your willingness to serve. 

We have lots of problems, both in S&T and I&A, both of them. 

The difficulty in S&T is you are given the responsibility but no authority to control the budgets over the areas which you are going 

to have which means leadership skills are going to be tremendously 

important and how you coordinate that and nurse that to a position 

where we are coordinated. 

Senator Levin and I put out a 2-year study on fusion centers 

showing that even though we spent $1.4 billion there is not one 

piece of actionable intelligence that has ever come up that could be 

used nationwide out of that investment. And we have had discussions about how to utilize that and what the goals for that are, and 

it is not eliminating fusion centers, but it is redirecting what they 

can best do in terms of all hazards. 

So I do not have any questions specifically. I will have a few in 

writing for our nominees. I have had great visits with both of them 

a couple of times. 

And I am thankful to our President for these nominations, and 

I am thankful for the leadership of Jeh Johnson in wanting these 

to happen. And it is my hope we can get them moved, as well as 

Suzanne Spaulding, as well as the IG, as well as the rest of the 

ones that have passed our Committee. 

Chairman CARPER. Dr. Coburn, thanks and thanks very much for 

all that you are doing to try to get these folks confirmed and before 

the Senate and up and down for a vote. 

Let me make a couple of brief introductions. This could be a fairly short hearing. You never know. That would be a good thing for 

your nominations, actually. 

Dr. Brothers has filed responses to his biographical and financial 

questionnaires. He has answered prehearing questions submitted 

by the Committee and had his financial statements reviewed by the 

Office of Government Ethics. Without objection, this information 

will be made part of the hearing record, with the exception of financial data which are on file and available for public inspection 

in the Committee offices. 

General Taylor’s nomination has been referred to the Select Committee on Intelligence, as we have said. However, this Committee 

is afforded the option of holding hearings on the nomination, and 

we are here seeking to do that today. 
4 

General Taylor has provided biographical information and the 

answers to prehearing questions to the Senate Select Committee on 

Intelligence, and the Intelligence Committee has shared that information with us in preparation for this hearing today. 

Our Committee rules require that all witnesses at nomination 

hearings give their testimony under oath. 

And, with that, I am going to ask Dr. Brothers and General Taylor, would you both please stand and raise your right hand? 

Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth; 

so help you, God? 

Mr. BROTHERS. I do. 

General TAYLOR. I do. 

Chairman CARPER. You may be seated. 

Let me just briefly introduce our nominees before asking them to 

proceed with their statements. 

Our first nominee, Dr. Reggie Brothers, the President has nominated to be Department of Homeland Security’s Under Secretary of 

Science and Technology. Dr. Brothers currently serves as Deputy 

Assistant Secretary of Defense for Research at the Department of 

Defense. He has extensive background in the private sector at BAE 

Systems, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency 

(DARPA), the Charles Draper Laboratory and the Massachusetts 

Institute of Technology (MIT) Lincoln Laboratory. 

Welcome. Pleased to have met with you and pleased to have you 

be with us today. 

Our second nominee is retired General Frank Taylor, the President’s nominee for the Department of Homeland Security’s Under 

Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis. As a career Air Force officer, General Taylor served his country for 31 years as a counterintelligence and law enforcement officer. 

In 2001, he went to work for Secretary of State Colin Powell as 

the State Department’s counterterrorism coordinator, a position 

with the rank of Ambassador. After a year and a half, he was appointed to lead the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security as Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security. 

In 2004, General Taylor left the public sector to become the Vice 

President and Chief Security Officer for General Electric, where he 

handled top security issues like espionage and insider threats. 

Again, we thank both of you for your willingness to serve in 

these important positions. 

Dr. Brothers, if you will, please proceed with your statement. 

Feel free to introduce any members of your family who are with 

you today. 

I heard that you might be bringing Jasmine’s classmates from— 

what is she? Seven years old? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Seven years old. 

Chairman CARPER. Yes, I heard she might be bringing some of 

her classmates here today. So feel free to introduce as many of 

them as you want. 
5 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Brothers appears in the Appendix on page 24. 

TESTIMONY OF L. REGINALD BROTHERS, JR.,1 NOMINEE FOR 

UNDER SECRETARY FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, U.S. 

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. BROTHERS. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, Dr. Coburn 

and distinguished Members of the Committee. It is a great honor 

for me to appear before you today as President Obama’s nominee 

for the position of Under Secretary for the Science and Technology 

Directorate of the Department of Homeland Security. 

I am also honored to appear before this Committee, which for the 

past 12 years has provided sound and distinguished leadership for 

the Department that is the foundation of our domestic security. If 

confirmed, I look forward to making my contribution to the security 

of our Nation in these times of accelerating technological advancements and diverse threats. 

Senators, I would like to introduce my family now—first, my wife 

Cynthia, who is the kindest and most compassionate of all people 

I have known. Her love is my security. My daughter, Jasmine, who 

is only 7 years old, continues to teach me profound lessons and 

greater love every day. I marvel as I watch her grow in intelligence, confidence, kindness, and inner and outer strength. As I 

think you know, she wants to be a scientist and a doctor. My dad, 

Lou Brothers, is not just my father but my best friend. At 96 years 

of age, he continues to provide a powerful example of the type of 

man, I strive to be. His life has been based on service to his family, 

his community and his country. He has taught me the values of integrity and perseverance from his daily example. My mother, who 

is here with us in spirit today, passed away 4 years ago. She is my 

example of love of family and friends that I continuously strive to 

emulate. I also thank my cousin, Debbie, who flew here from Chicago this morning, for her love and never ending support. I would 

also like to acknowledge my extended family, my friends who you 

see behind me, because I believe that friendship is essential to the 

soul. 

I was asked recently why I am interested in taking on this challenge. My desire comes from my personal understanding of the impact of terrorist attacks. I am from Boston and have many friends 

who live and work in New York City. On September 11, 2001, one 

of these friends was seriously injured as she ran headlong into a 

cement street pole as she fled the area called Ground Zero. 

In 1996, I ran the Boston Marathon. In 2013, I watched scenes 

of devastation in familiar areas around the Boston Public Library. 

What if someone I loved had been injured or killed that day? These 

sorts of tragedies have ignited my passion to serve the mission and 

the vision of the Department of Homeland Security, to ensure a 

safer and a more secure America. 

While my technical expertise and training is in the areas of sensor systems, communications and cybersecurity, a different type of 

attribute I can bring to the position of Under Secretary is the perspective I have garnered from a diverse career spent working 

across the science and technology enterprise, and you mentioned 

academia, industry, public service. 
6 

In my current role as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for 

Research at the Department of Defense, I have purview over a 

broad portfolio, approximately $12 billion in investment. 

And, Dr. Coburn, you mentioned leadership. I think when being 

considered for such an important role it is important to discuss not 

just technical competence but leadership style as well. From a leadership perspective, I believe it is essential to focus on fostering relationships among all stakeholders, asking the right questions and 

truly listening. 

If confirmed, I will emphasize collaboration, open communication, 

horizontally and vertically across the Directorate. I believe it is essential that everyone feels heard, valued, and empowered. 

Now I would like to pivot from leadership to another priority for 

the Homeland Security enterprise, and that is technology transition to operational components. The process of developing critical 

technical end-user capabilities involves a wide variety of professionals, including academics, scientists, technologists, tactical operators, senior leaders in acquisition, and legal professionals. 

I am fortunate to have worked closely with professionals from all 

of these communities, and I have learned and appreciate each of 

their nuanced languages. I believe this multilingual capability is 

essential for a most efficient and effective technology transition. 

Going forward, I would like to continue the good work and leadership of my predecessors: Dr. Charles McQueary, Rear Admiral 

Jay Cohen, and Dr. Tara O’Toole. I will continue to foster a culture 

in which decisions are informed by rigorous analysis, focused on 

adding value to the operational components, and managing investments in the most efficient and effective manner. 

I am deeply humbled, and I am honored to appear before you 

today in consideration of serving as the Under Secretary for the 

Science and Technology Directorate. I look forward to working with 

the leadership and Members of this Committee to serve the interests of the United States and its people. 

Thank you. 

Chairman CARPER. Dr. Brothers, thanks very much for your testimony. 

And I just want to say to your wife, to your daughter, to your 

dad and all those folks that are gathered behind you in your family 

and your extended family, just a warm welcome and particularly— 

here they come. 

Jasmine, this looks like your classmates from your class. Is that 

right? 

Mr. BROTHERS. This is the second grade class from Pinnacle 

Academy. It is a science and mathematics school in Oakton, Virginia. 

Chairman CARPER. That is great. 

Well, Jasmine, just to make sure, we do not tolerate disruptions. 

[Laughter.] 

But we are happy that you are here, and we are happy that your 

classmates and teachers are here as well. 

Welcome one and all, especially to your dad. It is just a great 

honor to have you in our presence. Welcome. 

Mr. BROTHERS. Thank you. 
7 

1The prepared statement of General Taylor appears in the Appendix on page 83. 

Chairman CARPER. General Taylor, I do not know how you are 

going to top that. [Laughter.] 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE FRANCIS X. TAYLOR,1 NOMINEE FOR UNDER SECRETARY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND 

ANALYSIS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

General TAYLOR. I am not going to try, Senator. 

Chairman Carper, Dr. Coburn, Members of the Committee, I am 

honored and extraordinarily humbled to appear before you today as 

the President’s nominee for the Under Secretary for Intelligence 

and Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security. 

Before I begin, I would first like to recognize my family. Without 

their support and encourage, I would not be here before you today. 

And, while they are not able to join me here for today’s hearing, 

I am sure that they are watching. I am grateful for the core values 

they have instilled in me and for the life lessons they have taught 

me. For me, there is no stronger symbol for the importance of accepting challenges like this and the importance of making sure that 

we are getting it right. 

During my last period of government service, I was privileged to 

work with Governor Tom Ridge and his team as they endeavored 

to establish the Department of Homeland Security in 2003. DHS 

has come a long way, and its mission and responsibilities have continued to evolve from those early days. This position and the team 

I would be privileged to lead, if confirmed, constitute crucial links 

between both the Federal Government and the Intelligence Community, and our State, local, tribal, territorial, and private sector 

partners, who are on the front lines every day, protecting our country and the citizens from an ever-evolving threat. As we learned in 

the aftermath of 9/11, securing our Nation requires an effective and 

intentional collaboration at every level. As envisioned by Congress, 

I&A’s role is to enable effective information sharing among the 

Federal Government, its State and local, tribal, and private sector 

partners, ensuring all involved have a clearer understanding of the 

nature of the threats that we face collectively. 

I remain haunted by the fact that at least one of the 9/11 hijackers was engaged by local law enforcement before the attack and the 

fact that there was certainly a potential for action against that individual before the attack. This is the type of coordination that 

must take place if we are to be successful, and if confirmed, I will 

work to strengthen and improve the processes and partnerships 

necessary to identify and mitigate potential threats to our country 

and our citizens. 

If confirmed, I intend to bring my 43 years of law enforcement, 

security, intelligence, and crisis management experience to bear in 

further refining and advancing the efforts of my talented and dedicated predecessors. I have had the distinct honor to serve our country as a U.S. Ambassador, leading and directing diplomatic 

counterterrorism and diplomatic security operations. I have also 

had the privilege to work as the Chief Security Officer for the General Electric Company, a Fortune 10 global U.S. conglomerate. In 

each of these challenging but distinctly different roles, I have as-
8 

sumed responsibility for mission execution and success, and I believe my record indicates consistently successful results. I have also 

had the experience of working both line and staff roles, developing 

and implementing policy, creating and managing budgets at every 

level, and leading operational activity to mitigate risk to our country as well as to an American economic giant, and I understand the 

interdependency of the two. 

While the I&A mission is different from any organization I have 

led before, I will have to endeavor to learn the organization, its 

unique customer requirements, and its strengths and shortcomings. 

Following a week of intensive briefings and meetings, I am pleased 

to share that my initial assessment is very positive. I believe the 

organization is grounded upon a solid foundation, and I hope to 

continue to build on that foundation, particularly regarding the further strengthening of DHS’s bond to the National Network of Fusion Centers, enhancing I&A’s analytical contribution to the Intelligence Community, of information derived from the Department, 

State and local sources, as well as working to eliminate duplicative 

efforts among I&A, other DHS components, and our IC partners. 

What makes I&A unique in the Intelligence Community is its 

mission to link the U.S. Intelligence Community with first responders across our country. The network of State and local fusion centers provides I&A with a critical beachhead from which it delivers 

information and analytical resources to our Nation’s 1,800 police 

entities. Caryn Wagner, as well as the current I&A leadership 

team, began that process with aggressive deployment of I&A personnel to fusion centers in the development of a program of analysis that will guide the future production of our analytical products. If confirmed, I will work relentlessly to execute these plans, 

ensuring all stakeholders understand that the critical importance 

of supporting our State, local, tribal and public sector partners. 

No organization can live on its reputation or hide behind its mission statement. Organizations must evolve to improve to meet the 

changing environments in which they operate. Mission assessment, 

the development of clear objectives and the implementation of rigorous metrics will help I&A stay focused on both the present and 

the future. While my initial briefings on I&A were impressive, they 

now constitute the baseline from which I will use, if confirmed, to 

set future expectations and measure effectiveness and accomplishment. 

To better serve the Department and the Intelligence Community, 

the Under Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis must also embrace the role of Chief Intelligence Officer and work with DHS 

components to synergize intelligence activities across the Department. I am impressed with the potential of what DHS calls the 

Homeland Security Intelligence Enterprise, and I believe it is the 

right approach to implement intelligence integration across the Department. If confirmed, I intend to work aggressively with the DHS 

intelligence components to further develop that model, and I look 

forward to working with Congress to identify other ways to further 

build the DHS intelligence enterprise. 
9 

1The prepared statement of General Taylor appears in the Appendix on page 83. 

Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like to enter the 

rest of the statement into the record.1

Chairman CARPER. Without objection. 

All right, gentlemen, thank you for statements. 

We need to start off our questioning today with me asking three 

questions. These are questions we ask of all nominees. And you 

may remain seated when I ask these questions and as you answer 

them, if you will just please answer after each question. 

No. 1, is there anything you are aware of in your background 

that may present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office 

to which you have nominated? 

Dr. Brothers. 

Mr. BROTHERS. No. 

General Taylor. 

General TAYLOR. No, sir. 

Chairman CARPER. All right. Do you know of anything personal 

or otherwise that would, in any way, prevent you from fully and 

honorably discharging the responsibilities of the offices to which 

you have been nominated? 

Dr. Brothers. 

Mr. BROTHERS. No, sir. 

Chairman CARPER. General Taylor. 

General TAYLOR. No, sir. 

Chairman CARPER. All right. And, finally, do you agree, without 

reservation, to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and 

testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are 

confirmed? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Yes, sir. 

General TAYLOR. Yes, sir. 

Chairman CARPER. All right. Thanks very much. 

I would like to start with you, a question for you, General Taylor. 

We talked a little bit about this when you visited with my staff and 

me last month in my office. 

Dr. Coburn, as he said, has spent about 2 years drilling down on 

the fusion centers—a concept which, on paper, makes a whole lot 

of sense but, in its actual execution and implementation, has been 

less than satisfying. 

And there is, I think, still considerable potential to be realized, 

but it has not been realized. His work and that of his staff and 

Senator Levin made that, I think, fairly clear. 

I do not know if you have had a chance to read the work that 

they have created and the study that they have done, their findings 

and recommendations. But, whether you have or not, I would like 

for you to just talk about the concept of fusion centers, where they 

make sense, where they do not, what has gone wrong in terms of 

our fully recognizing or realizing their potential in this country. 

General TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And, Dr. Coburn, and I have had several discussions about that 

very issue. 

First, let me say that I think fusion centers are critical in terms 

of bringing the 18,000 police agencies around this country into the 
10 

counterterrorism fight, and it is through the fusion centers that we 

can do that. 

I think the challenge is, what are the metrics of success in the 

fusion center, both in translating IC information to the fusion centers and bringing information from the fusion centers back to the 

Intelligence Community? 

And so I have read the report from Dr. Coburn and Senator 

Levin. I understand what the concerns are. 

If confirmed, my intention is to look very carefully and closely at 

what the fusion centers are expected to do, to set expectations for 

how that mission should be performed, and then measure as best 

I can the execution of that mission to ensure that they are meeting 

their potential. 

Chairman CARPER. You worked for two of the people, two of the 

leaders, that I most admire in this country—Colin Powell and Jeff 

Immelt, one a military leader, the leader of our State Department 

and just a great American, and the other a remarkably successful 

and effective leader on a highly respected, multinational company, 

GE. 

What were the qualities that they saw in you that led them to 

hire you for these positions of extraordinary responsibility, and how 

does your execution of those duties suggest that you are well qualified for this position? 

General TAYLOR. Sir, it is my belief in both cases I was hired 

based upon my demonstrated track record of forming, in the counterintelligence world and the Air Force, those skills that could be 

translated to the State Department and the counterterrorism role 

in the State Department and, ultimately, as the security leader for 

the State Department. 

And, the same with GE, GE was looking for a leader that had 

both international and U.S. experience in leading complex security 

operations. GE did not have a chief security officer at the time I 

was hired. I was hired to build a capability. 

And my track record in terms of building capability and mission 

execution, I believe, was a very important ingredient in why both 

Mr. Immelt and General Powell hired me. 

Chairman CARPER. Dr. Brothers, a question for you if I could. 

Again, Dr. Coburn has focused on the issue of duplication. There 

is a fair amount of it in government. If you do not believe it, just 

ask him. And he has spent a huge amount of time with his staff 

in finding it and pointing it out. 

I want us to ponder for a moment, R&D duplication. I think in 

a 2012 report the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released 

a report that took a fairly broad look at research and development 

across at DHS. And, while the report did not find instances of duplication, it cited the potential for duplication and waste due to coordination challenges within the Department. 

How would you view the role of the Directorate in coordinating 

research and development investments across DHS? That is the 

first part of my question. 

And the second part would be, how would you ensure that the 

highest priorities are funded, with desired results, delivered to prevent potential duplication? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Thank you. 
11 

Sir, I think the role of the Department is to have very strong 

communication links horizontally and vertically across the Homeland Security enterprise. 

So I think it is important that we understand what the needs of 

the operational components are as opposed to necessarily what 

some of the wants might be. It is really what the needs are, and 

that requires a great deal of communication. 

It is also important that we understand the art of the possible 

with respect to technology and science, that we do a good job of the 

technology foraging so that we can have the most efficient and effective use of our investment dollars, and we also look toward the 

future to see where some of the science and technology can lead us 

to. 

I am sorry. What was the second part of your question, sir? 

Chairman CARPER. The second part of my question is, how would 

you ensure that the highest priorities are funded, with desired results delivered, to prevent potential duplication? 

Mr. BROTHERS. One of the things I would look for is developing 

what some people call frameworks. 

Chairman CARPER. Developing what? 

Mr. BROTHERS. What some people call a framework, right? 

So a framework could be where you start thinking about what 

the threats are in terms of probability or time horizon and then 

look at what the impacts might be. 

Then by looking at that type of framework, you can start to think 

about, how would you invest and what kind of timeframes would 

you invest in? So that is one way of thinking about investments. 

In terms of making sure there is elimination of potential duplication, that is where this communication becomes important. 

Sir, right now, in the Department of Defense, we have something 

called the S&T Executive Committee. And in this committee we 

meet with the leaders of the services and the components, and we 

talk about our investment portfolios, and we try to ensure that we 

do not have those kinds of duplications. 

Those are the kinds of things I have seen to be effective. 

Chairman CARPER. All right. Before I yield to Dr. Coburn, let me 

just ask the students that just walked in the hearing room that are 

Jasmine’s classmates, would you all like to stand up? Why don’t 

you just stand up? 

Just stand up and remain standing, if you would, and let me just 

say welcome to all of you. 

I am sitting here with Senator Tom Coburn, who is my colleague 

and a Republican from Oklahoma. And my name is Tom Carper. 

I am a Senator, a Democrat, from the State of Delaware. The two 

of us together lead one of the Senate committees. It is called the 

Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. 

Our job as United States Senators is to work with 98 other Senators and 435 Representatives in the House of Representatives, 

along with the President and the Vice President, to make the rules 

for our country. That is what we do. 

We make the rules for our country. They are called laws. 

And our job is to help people. 
12 

And a big part of our job in this Committee is to make sure that 

we help protect the people of this country from harm from others 

in our country and outside of our country, who would wish us ill. 

And what we are working on today is trying to figure out if these 

two men nominated by the President might be a big help in leading 

our country to a safer place. 

So that is what we are doing, and we are just glad you could be 

a part of it. 

Please have a seat. Thank you. Dr. Coburn. 

Senator COBURN. Well, I said I was not going to ask questions, 

but I cannot help myself. 

This Committee is known as T.C.-squared—Tom Carper and Tom 

Coburn. 

General Taylor, the testimony that we had on the Boston bombings from the police chief of Boston, he was asked specifically, did 

the fusion center, the Commonwealth fusion center, provide information or actionable intelligence to anyone after the bombing that 

was not provided through other channels, and if so, what was it? 

His answer was they did not. 

And you specifically talked about counterterrorism, but as you 

know, fusion centers are an all-hazard event. 

So my question for you is, rather than spending precious dollars 

in fusion centers on information going down, wouldn’t it be better 

to better utilize the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) for counterterrorism with a nod to the fusion center on the information and 

use the fusion centers to try to build information to JTTF and the 

other significant parts of the IC community? 

General TAYLOR. Sir, thank you for that question. 

I think fusion centers sit at an apex that can serve both the IC 

with information going back up but also can serve to send information back out to the police agencies around the country. 

I do not think it competes with the JTTF. I think it complements 

the JTTF. The issue is, how do we get the information into the fusion center that will complement the JTTF? 

And I intend, if confirmed, to work on that nexus with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to make sure that we are not 

duplicating efforts but complementing the work of the JTTF and its 

law enforcement/investigative role from the intelligence collection 

and analysis role that we perform for I&A. 

Senator COBURN. I think that is important. 

The fact is the history has never shown one piece of actionable 

intelligence yet, in this country, from a fusion center, and we have 

pretty well shown that. 

That is not that we do not want it. 

General TAYLOR. Yes, sir. 

Senator COBURN. It is the fact that we have not been effective 

in developing that. 

And I am glad you are going to be in your position. 

Dr. Brothers, you are going to be responsible for this research except in two areas in Homeland Security that you do not have control over. So how are you going to handle that? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Let me make sure I understand your question. 

You said two areas of Homeland Security that I do not have control 

over? 
13 

Senator COBURN. Well, for example, the nuclear portion. 

Mr. BROTHERS. Ah. 

Senator COBURN. And I cannot recall the second one, but there 

are two areas where you do not have line authority. 

So your talents of persuasion and ordering of priority are going 

to have to be highly effective if we are going to actually coordinate 

all the R&D and science and technology within Homeland Security. 

How do you do that? 

Mr. BROTHERS. I absolutely agree with you. I think it really does 

have to do with influence and persuasion and relationships. 

Senator COBURN. Should we reorganize and put it all into one? 

Mr. BROTHERS. I think, philosophically, I can understand why 

there is a lot of thought of consolidation and putting it all into one. 

I think in a lot of examples that works; in some examples, the 

actual implementation of that kind of consolidation can become difficult. So it is something that I think is very important to think 

about. 

I spoke to the Secretary about this, and I think he is very interested in thinking about how the implementation details. 

Senator COBURN. All right. Thank you. 

The rest of my questions I will submit for the record. 

Chairman CARPER. Last evening I met with a friend of yours, the 

Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), Director John 

Brennan, and we talked about a lot of issues I know that he briefs 

the Intelligence Committee on fairly regularly. 

Near the end of our discussion, we touched on the issue of 

cybersecurity, and we talked about our efforts to try to enhance the 

skills of the folks that are at DHS, to better enable them and our 

country to deal with cyber attacks that are occurring 24–7, around 

the clock. 

This would be a question for Dr. Brothers. With an eye toward 

trying to protect us from these ongoing cyber attacks, how would 

you prioritize research and development in cybersecurity, and the 

work of the Science and Technology Directorate, in order to better 

protect us and our critical infrastructure and other parts of our Nation against the threats that we face today and maybe down the 

road? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Sure, I can answer that from my perspective of 

where I sit right now, at the Department of Defense, and how we 

are working through that. And I think, if confirmed, these are the 

kinds of things I would like to think about. 

What we are thinking about is looking at the key stakeholders— 

for example, in cyber, Department of Justice, Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, and how those three organizations overlap in terms of mission sets. 

When we start thinking about given those mission sets, how do 

we think to gaps in terms of our capabilities? 

And then we try to have S&T that is focused at those particular 

gaps. 

This gets back to Dr. Coburn’s comment about persuasion, influence and all that—it requires a tremendous amount of communication across the borders and boundaries of these organizations in 

order to effectively do this. 
14 

Chairman CARPER. All right. Have you had a chance to get to 

know Dr. Tara O’Toole at all? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Yes, I have met with her. 

Chairman CARPER. And your understanding from talking to others about her work and the team that she led there—and let me 

just say I was very impressed with her and thought she did a good 

job. 

But, when you think about her legacy and what was accomplished during the time that she provided leadership, where do you 

think they did a really good job, and what are some of the areas 

that need maybe some of your earliest attention? 

Mr. BROTHERS. Sure. I think what was a very good job was focusing on transition. I think a key point of science and technology, 

particularly in the Department of Homeland Security, is return on 

investment. Right? 

It is getting value. It is really exploiting the fact that science and 

technology is a force multiplier to our operators. And I think Dr. 

O’Toole did a good job with that. 

I think I would consider looking at other phases of the research 

continuum. 

So we may consider not just on what can be very quickly 

transitioned, but how do we think about things that may take a little bit longer, understanding this higher risk? Right? 

Understanding this higher risk and evaluating how much we 

want to put in a risky investment versus less risky investments. 

Chairman CARPER. All right. Let me turn back to you, General 

Taylor, if I could. 

We mentioned your work on behalf of General Electric. For how 

many years? Was it 8 years? 

General TAYLOR. Eight and a half. 

Chairman CARPER. Eight and a half years. 

But I think you were the head of security for what is one of the 

most successful companies in the world, and you obviously have 

some valuable insights in the security needs of the private sector. 

I&A serves many customers, as you know, including the private 

sector. 

And let me just ask two questions, if I may. 

What Department of Homeland Security information would have 

been most valuable to you as head of security for General Electric? 

That is question No. 1. 

And, given your interactions with I&A while at General Electric, 

how can I&A improve its service to the private sector? 

General TAYLOR. Thank you, Senator. 

First, in my view, the most valuable information out of Homeland Security for the General Electric Company was on 

cybersecurity, and a lot of the other security information we were 

able to glean from local police departments and those sorts of 

things in the communities where our factories are, especially in the 

United States. 

But the cybersecurity information, I think, was most valuable 

and certainly an area where I&A, in working with National Protection and Programs Directorate (NPPD), needs to continue to ramp 

up our capability to get that kind of information out. I think it is 
15 

the biggest gap in the private sector, and that is understanding the 

nature of the threat. 

A company the size of GE has resources and can reach in lots 

of places, but 85 percent of the companies in this country are not 

that size and do not have those kinds of resources. So I think that 

is an area where we can assist in informing the business community of the threats and risks in cyber space. 

DHS and the Federal Bureau of Investigations have worked, I 

think, quite hard to try to put together what they call the Domestic 

Security Advisory Council (DSAC). It is not as mature as I think 

it needs to be. I think the Overseas Security Advisory Council at 

the State Department is the gold standard. So my intent would be 

to work with my colleagues at the FBI to improve the efficiency 

and effectiveness of DSAC in responding to the information needs 

from the government and private sector security entities. 

Chairman CARPER. OK. I think once a year, maybe once every 

other year, there is a non-profit entity which studies morale of Federal employees across many of our agencies, and they issue a report, and they literally rank and rate morale across agencies. 

And I think look at as many as 300 agencies, all total. Some of 

them are fairly small. Others are, obviously, much larger. 

But the Department of Homeland Security, no secret, has struggled with morale problems for a variety of reasons. One is they are 

spread out all over the place and there is not a real sense of team 

unity. All these different agencies were kind of jammed together in 

what we hoped was a logical way, but they have no real campus 

and no headquarters, and they are, in many ways, far-flung and 

not a tight unit or team. 

There are some exceptions, though, within the Department of 

Homeland Security, and some of the components in the Department of Homeland Security actually rank very high in terms of employee morale. We have taken a look at that in trying to figure out 

why that is. 

Talk to us about the morale in I&A. We are told it is not very 

good. 

I spent a few years of my life in the Navy, and we thought a lot 

about morale and tried to enhance it. 

We should do the same thing here. Our Committee, if anybody, 

has jurisdiction over Federal employees at large, and that includes 

morale. So we are concerned about it. 

You have, obviously, worked a lot on morale, enhancing it for 

years, in uniform and out of uniform. Talk to us about how you 

might bring those skills to enhance the job satisfaction of the folks 

that you will be leading. 

General TAYLOR. Sir, I appreciate the question. 

I have read the reports of morale across the departments, specifically morale within I&A. I think I&A has been buffeted by many 

expectations about what is mission accomplishment and how are 

they performing. They are hearing from many different voices— 

good, bad and ugly—about the organization and what it is accomplishing. 

I think morale stems from people really understanding what 

their mission is, leaders that really focus on objectives and metrics 

to drive a mission accomplishment, and people who really under-
16 

stand that leaders care for them, care about what they do, care 

about how they do it and get them the resources that they need 

to get their job done. 

So my focus on morale is making sure everyone in I&A understands what the mission is, not what they think the mission is, but 

what the mission is, what we expect each of them to do to contribute to that mission and then what the results are going to be 

going forward. 

And I would expect every leader in I&A to be focused in the 

same way that I would be focused, in confirmed, to drive that message to our employees—that they are important, that they are getting things done and that we appreciate the work that they are 

doing. 

Chairman CARPER. Before I turn to Dr. Coburn, Dr. Brothers just 

a real quick word from you on morale. My sense is the morale over 

at the R&D unit you will lead is a little better, but just talk to us 

about your focus on morale. How do you plan to keep it up and 

make it better? 

Mr. BROTHERS. I think morale is extraordinarily important. I 

think that in order to get the most effective use of the team, morale 

has to be high. 

I have looked at some of the data coming out of some of those 

surveys you were talking about, and while it shows challenges, 

what I would look to do, if confirmed, is understand really the root 

causes—the whys. Perform a real root cause analysis to understand 

why this is. 

When I have an understanding what the why is, then the next 

step is do something about it. And I think that really has to do 

with the communication piece I mentioned earlier, making sure, as 

General Taylor did, that folks understand what the vision is, the 

strategy is, but not only that, making sure that everyone is involved in the process. So it is not just a top-down kind of development, but there is also input from every level of the organization. 

Chairman CARPER. Dr. Coburn. 

Dr. COBURN. My experience in both the business and the medical 

communities is creating proper expectations and the pats on the 

back when people accomplish that, and that is what has been lacking at Homeland Security across a broad swath of it. 

We have valuable employees there, but their accomplishments 

have not always been recognized. The expectations have not been 

created. People want to perform, but they also want to be recognized when they have performed. 

And so having the clear objectives of what the mission is, is a 

key component in all areas of Homeland Security, not just these 

two, and that is what has been lacking. 

So leadership, which both of you represent, and very quality experience in those areas are exactly what Jeh Johnson—why he 

wants you there because he is that kind of leader. 

And so my hope is that you can instill that leadership that is 

necessary to make people proud of what they have done and give 

them a clear pat on the back when they have accomplished what 

was expected of them and creating goals that are achievable but 

still hard, causing people to grow. People want to grow. 
17 

So I think you both get it. I am pleased that you are here, 

pleased that you are going to be confirmed. Our job is to make it 

happen quickly. 

Chairman CARPER. I will say, in wrapping up, the elements that 

I find most important in my life with respect to enhancing people’s 

satisfaction with their work is the feeling that what they are doing 

is important and to believe that they are making progress. 

One of the keys to making progress is having strong leadership. 

Show me an organization. I do not care what organization it is. 

It could be a school. It could be a church. It could be a business. 

It could be an athletic team. It could be a governmental unit. Show 

me one of those elements or one of those entities that has strong 

leadership, and I will show you a successful organization or one 

that is on its way to being successful. 

As Dr. Coburn has suggested, critical to the morale of the employees of these agencies that we hope you will be leading is strong 

leadership—Senate-confirmed leadership. It is the job of the President and his folks to recognize, identify, vet, and send to us names 

of well-qualified people. 

As Dr. Coburn suggests, it is our job to drill down on your qualifications and who you are and what you bring to the table, and if 

we deem you well-qualified, to expeditiously hold this hearing and, 

hopefully, report our your nominations to the full Senate. Things 

tend to slow down there. 

Dr. Coburn has been a great partner with me, in working with 

Democratic and Republican leadership in the Senate, to try to 

move through nominations that the Secretary and the President 

have asked for. 

We have too many senior positions in this Department that do 

not have Senate-confirmed leadership, and that is not to take anything away from the people who have served in Acting capacities, 

but it is just much harder to serve and to lead in that capacity. 

So I want to, again, on behalf of all of us, those that are here, 

those that are not here today at our hearing—it is actually a pretty 

good sign when there are not many Senators at a confirmation 

hearing. It is not bad news. 

But we are pleased that you are here and that you have prepared 

for, really, your whole lives, for these responsibilities and that you 

are willing to take them on. 

I just want to say to your families that are here and those family 

members that are not, to your dad, to your wife, to your daughter, 

to all those kids from her class, to the friends and family that General Taylor has brought with them; thanks for your willingness to 

share with us two very good men. 

That having been said, the hearing record will remain open until 

just noon tomorrow. So for Members who have some questions they 

want to ask, they have until noon tomorrow to do that. 

Dr. Coburn, I know, has some additional questions. I am sure 

others on our Committee do, too. 

As soon as you have an opportunity to give us your thoughtful 

responses the sooner that will enable us to try to move your nominations out of committee and onto the floor. 

Dr. Coburn, anything else? 

Dr. COBURN. No, thank you. 
18 

Chairman CARPER. Again, our thanks to you. 

And, with that, this hearing is adjourned. 

Thanks so much. 

[Whereupon, at 10:21 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 
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