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THE KEY TO AMERICA’S GLOBAL 

COMPETITIVENESS: A QUALITY EDUCATION 

HEARING 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, 

LABOR, AND PENSIONS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

ON

EXAMINING THE KEY TO AMERICA’S GLOBAL COMPETITIVENESS, 

FOCUSING ON A QUALITY EDUCATION 

MARCH 8, 2012 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/ 
COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS 

TOM HARKIN, Iowa, Chairman 

BARBARA A. MIKULSKI, Maryland 

JEFF BINGAMAN, New Mexico 

PATTY MURRAY, Washington 

BERNARD SANDERS (I), Vermont 

ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania 

KAY R. HAGAN, North Carolina 

JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon 

AL FRANKEN, Minnesota 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee 

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina 

JOHNNY ISAKSON, Georgia 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska 

MARK KIRK, Illinois 

DANIEL E. SMITH, Staff Director 

PAMELA SMITH, Deputy Staff Director 

FRANK MACCHIAROLA, Republican Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

(II) 
C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS 

THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012 

Page 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS

Harkin, Hon. Tom, Chairman, Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and 

Pensions, opening statement ............................................................................... 1 

Enzi, Hon. Michael B., a U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming, opening 

statement .............................................................................................................. 2 

Hagan, Hon. Kay R., a U.S. Senator from the State of North Carolina ............. 4 

Bingaman, Hon. Jeff, a U.S. Senator from the State of New Mexico .................. 40 

Franken, Hon. Al, a U.S. Senator from the State of Minnesota .......................... 41 

WITNESSES

Mann, Jennifer, Vice President, Human Resources, SAS Institute, Cary, NC .. 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 7 

Kolb Charles, M.A., J.D., President of the Committee for Economic Development (CED), Washington, DC ............................................................................. 13 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 15 

Hanushek, Eric A., Ph.D., Paul and Jean Hanna Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, Stanford, CA ......................................................... 19 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 21 

Murnane, Richard, Ph.D., Juliana W. and William Foss Thompson Professor 

of Education and Society, Harvard University Graduate School of Education, Cambridge, MA ........................................................................................ 25 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 26 

(III) 

(1) 

THE KEY TO AMERICA’S GLOBAL 

COMPETITIVENESS: A QUALITY EDUCATION 

THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in Room 

SD–430, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Tom Harkin, chairman of the committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Harkin, Enzi, Hagan, Isakson, Bingaman, 

Franken, and Whitehouse. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HARKIN

The CHAIRMAN. The Senate Committee on Health, Education, 

Labor, and Pensions will please come to order. 

I’d like to thank all of you for being here today to discuss a topic 

of vital importance to America’s global economic competitiveness 

and the opportunity individuals have to enter the middle class, and 

that is our public education system. What our children and grandchildren learn today will determine America’s productivity in the 

future, and that depends on preparing them to compete in a global 

marketplace more competitive than at any other time in history. 

But while globalization and technology have dramatically increased the skills and qualifications required to succeed today, our 

schools are largely geared toward the assumptions of a 20th Century workplace. I know we can’t solve the problem overnight, nor 

can we solve it by simply asking more of American workers. Americans are already working harder than ever, but in recent decades, 

middle class family incomes have stagnated. In fact, over the last 

10 years, the average income of working Americans actually declined. 

The challenge before us is to ensure that economic growth translates into greater prosperity for everyone. That said, the path into 

the middle class is more than ever linked to a worker’s level of educational attainment. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 

the unemployment rate for people without a high school diploma in 

January of this year was more than three times higher than among 

those who had at least a bachelor’s degree. 

Unfortunately, this critical door to the middle class does not 

swing equally wide for everyone. Between the 1970s and mid1990s, the college graduation rate of American youth from families 

in the top quarter of income distribution increased by 21 percentage points. However, over the same period, the college graduation 
2 

rate of children from families in the bottom quarter increased only 

4 percent, from 5 percent to 9 percent. 

In this day and age when two-thirds of new jobs created in this 

country require some college education, only around 10 percent of 

young people from poor backgrounds are graduating from college. 

This makes it very unlikely that they will achieve the American 

dream of a middle-class lifestyle. 

The great American tradition is to invest in the next generation, 

to leave our children a world that is more advanced, with more opportunity. Other nations have also identified this strategy as their 

own path to economic success, as I read in Dr. Hanushek’s paper 

last night. On the other hand, we in the United States have recently begun to expect less of our education system, and I question 

how we can remain globally competitive when we make choices like 

this. 

Our witnesses today have different perspectives on this critical 

question of how best to recalibrate our education system for the 

economic challenges of the 21st Century, and I look forward to 

hearing more about their proposed solutions and to engage in some 

colloquies. Even more, I hope that we can come together in this 

committee and in the Congress to do what’s necessary to give our 

Nation’s children and workers the education and training they 

need in order to secure well-paying jobs in the 21st Century. 

The challenge before us is framed very succinctly in a report 

issued last year by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and 

Development, the OECD, says, 

‘‘The yardstick for judging public policy in education is no 

longer improvement against national educational standards 

but also improvement against the most successful education 

systems worldwide.’’ 

I think that just sums it up. We’re in a worldwide market. We 

can’t just measure it by what we’re doing in our own country. 

With that said, I’ll yield now to my friend, Senator Enzi. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ENZI

Senator ENZI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Our children do deserve to receive the best education our country 

can provide for them. Yet too many of our students continue to be 

ill-served by the schools they attend and either fall behind or drop 

out of school. This is not good for their future, nor is it good for 

our country’s future. 

Our economy depends on an educated and skilled workforce to be 

successful in the global market. In the United States, we face two 

major challenges for students entering the workforce. First, a growing number of jobs require more than a high school education. Second, over the past 30 years, one country after another has surpassed us in proportion of their entering workforce that has at 

least a high school diploma. 

Every day in our country, about 7,000 students drop out of high 

school. Even for those students who do stay in school and earn a 

high school diploma, there’s no guarantee that they’ve learned the 

basics needed to succeed in post-secondary education and the workforce. In fact, nearly half of all college students must take remedial 
3 

courses after graduating from high school before they can take college level coursework. 

This lack of preparation means that our college students spend 

more time and money in tuition just to catch up. It’s hard for them 

and it’s hard for our country to get ahead if we’re playing catchup. 

Each year, more than 1 million students enter college for the 

first time with the hope and expectation of earning a bachelor’s degree. Of those, fewer than 40 percent will actually meet that goal 

within 4 years. Barely 60 percent will achieve it in 6 years. Among 

minority students, remedial course participation rates are even 

higher and completion rates are even lower. 

There’s no question that some education and training beyond 

high school is a prerequisite for employment in jobs and careers 

that support a middle-class way of life. Lifetime earnings for individuals with a bachelor’s degree are, on average, almost twice as 

high as high school graduates. However, the message has not yet 

resonated with the public at large. 

A National Journal poll recently found that people ranked a college education fourth in importance behind raising a family and ensuring that their children had more opportunities than they had, 

owning a home, and being able to pursue a rewarding career. We 

must be very clear. A high school diploma and some additional education or training is necessary to be successful in today’s economy. 

It’s also important in order to achieve the very things that are 

ranked one through three in the same poll. 

I do a little interesting experiment when I go into junior high 

schools. I like to ask students how much they think they’ll make 

when they get out of high school. And the average student thinks 

with a high school diploma that they’re going to make $45,000. I 

don’t know what job they’re going to get with that. 

Once first in the world, America now ranks 10th in proportion 

of young people with a college degree. Less than 40 percent of 

Americans hold an associate or bachelor’s degree, and substantial 

racial and income gaps persist. The projections are that within a 

decade, 6 out of 10 Americans must have a degree or a recognized 

credential to succeed in the workforce. 

This being the case, we’re facing a major deficit of skilled workers, which in turn threatens our ability to grow economically. We 

used to have the best educated workforce in the world. But that’s 

no longer true. The Federal Government does have a role to play 

in improving the education of our Nation’s children through programs supported under the Head Start Act, the Elementary and 

Secondary Education Act, Perkins Career and Technical Education 

Act, and the Higher Education Act. 

The skills students learn in the earliest grades are the building 

blocks to their success in high school, college, and the workforce. 

Our country cannot continue to be competitive in the global economy if we do not have an educated workforce. 

I want to welcome and thank all the witnesses who are here 

today, and I look forward to hearing from you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Enzi. 
4 

We’ll introduce our panel from left to right, and I’ll yield to the 

Senator from North Carolina for the purposes of an introduction. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAGAN

Senator HAGAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and also 

thank you and the Ranking Member for holding this tremendously 

important hearing today. I am proud to have the opportunity to introduce Jenn Mann, the vice president of Human Resources at the 

SAS Institute in Cary, NC. 

SAS is the world’s largest privately held software company providing software and services to a wide range of customers. SAS employs nearly 5,000 people in North Carolina, and I’m proud that 

this excellent company is represented on this panel today. 

Ms. Mann has had a long and distinguished career advocating for 

change and innovation. She joined SAS in 1998 and in 2008 was 

promoted to her current role where she is responsible for developing and guiding the Human Resources Division at SAS, particularly by articulating the organization’s strategy to attract, reward, 

and retain a top-notch workforce. Ranked on the Fortune 100 best 

companies to work for list since this list’s inception, Ms. Mann 

leads a global workforce of over 12,000 employees with a myriad 

of talents and skills. 

As I travel across North Carolina, no matter where I am, I hear 

the same refrain, and that is that we need more people with highlevel skills in the science, technology, engineering, and math subjects. And it is companies like SAS that are looking to hire people 

with these skills. Without this trained workforce, our American 

companies will suffer. 

Ms. Mann, I welcome you. I give you a warm welcome to our 

hearing today, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Hagan. 

Our next witness will be Mr. Charles Kolb, president of the Committee for Economic Development, an organization dedicated to 

U.S. economic and social policy. Mr. Kolb has nearly 10 years of 

government service, holding senior level positions for the White 

House, Office of Management and Budget, and Department of Education. In addition, he practiced law at two Washington, DC law 

firms, Covington & Burling and Foreman & Dyess. 

Our next witness is Dr. Eric Hanushek, currently the Paul and 

Jean Hanna senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford 

University. Dr. Hanushek is an accomplished researcher and leader 

in the development of the Economic Analysis of Educational Issues. 

His experience also includes government services as well as numerous academic appointments. 

And our last witness is Dr. Richard Murnane, who currently 

serves as the Juliana W. and William Foss Thompson Professor of 

Education and Society at the Harvard University Graduate School 

of Education. Dr. Murnane is also a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research, and his research is focused on 

the intersection between education and the economy. 

We thank all of you for being here today, and your testimonies 

will all be made a part of the record in their entirety. I’ll ask you 

to sum up your testimony—in say 5 minutes. If you go over five, 
5 

that’s fine. Don’t worry about it. I don’t think we’ve got so many 

people here we have to worry too much about—but if you go over 

eight or nine—once you get close to 10 minutes, then I’ll get nervous. OK? But try to keep it less than 10 minutes, anyway. OK? 

Ms. Mann, we’ll start with you. Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF JENNIFER MANN, VICE PRESIDENT, HUMAN 

RESOURCES, SAS INSTITUTE, CARY, NC 

Ms. MANN. Thank you. Chairman Harkin, Ranking Member 

Enzi, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to 

participate in today’s hearing. This is a very important topic and 

one that is very near and dear to us at SAS. 

As Senator Hagan pointed out, SAS is headquartered in Cary, 

NC, and is the market leader in business analytic software and 

services and the largest privately held vender in the business analytic space. SAS has been in business for 36 years and employs 

more than 12,000 employees in 56 countries. 

From a business perspective, SAS helps our customers in all industries solve critical business problems by integrating and analyzing data and sharing the insights gained from that analysis 

through various reporting capabilities. In short, SAS provides our 

customers with knowledge about their business by ensuring that 

every decisionmaker has the right information at the right time 

and in the right format. 

For example, we help pharmaceutical companies use SAS to analyze clinical trials before FDA approval. Manufacturers use SAS to 

better understand product quality and their supply chain. And the 

world’s largest banks use SAS to detect fraud and potential money 

laundering, and both State and Federal Governments use SAS to 

detect fraud, waste, and abuse of government programs. 

In addition to being recognized as an industry leader, we are 

widely recognized as an employer of choice, having been recognized 

consistently high on Fortune’s 100 best places to work list. This is 

important, because people want to come to work for SAS, and we 

want to retain the best and the brightest in the industry. 

Given our business, the skills that we look for include statistics 

and advanced analytics, multiple programming languages, data 

modeling and data integration experience, and given the rapid developments in cloud and mobile computing applications, we’re also 

looking for expertise in these areas as well. Typically, the level of 

expertise that we are seeking is at the post-graduate and Ph.D. 

level. Almost all of our employees have at least an undergraduate 

degree, with a large percentage of our staff having some type of advanced degree. 

The pool of candidates meeting these requirements is small, and 

the competition for these candidates is fierce. Even with SAS’s 

widely recognized culture and reputation, we can no longer rely on 

our brand alone to attract and recruit talent. In my opinion, the 

largest impediment that SAS faces in attracting qualified applicants relates to our educational system. 

An ideal curriculum path for someone who wants to come to 

work for SAS would study science, math, engineering, and technology at the high school level. Once in college, these students 

would also study computer science and information management 
6 

and take more quantitative STEM courses or analytical or statistic 

courses. And at the graduate level, students would then pursue a 

master’s or Ph.D. in STEM-related fields. 

As I describe in greater detail in my written statement, it’s fairly 

well established that our elementary and secondary school systems 

are not preparing or encouraging students to study STEM or computer science. And our post-secondary system is not effectively 

keeping those interested in STEM or computer science enrolled in 

these courses. 

As the Change the Equation Coalition notes, a literate nation not 

only reads. It computes, investigates, and innovates. Therefore, we 

must have the educational infrastructure in place to ensure that 

we have students prepared with the right skill set and knowledge, 

including computer science. 

SAS shares the belief that education is the economic driver for 

innovation, and, as a result, the commitment to education drives 

our company’s policy, workforce, and philanthropic efforts. I’ve described in great detail in the written statement many efforts that 

we’re undertaking to help ensure the workforce of today and tomorrow have the right skills. But let me highlight a few of those efforts. 

From a policy perspective, SAS participates in the Computing in 

the Core Coalition, which exists to bring awareness to the lack of 

standards relating to computer science education, including a lack 

of professional development and teacher certification in this area; 

from a workforce perspective, developing innovative programs to 

start teaching children about careers in computer science at a 

younger age. These programs include training high school teachers 

to program in SAS software language and providing them with 

software and instructional materials for their classroom use free of 

charge. 

We’ve also developed a program called Discover, Lead, and Solve 

that brings high school students already learning SAS programming to our SAS campus to interact with SAS professionals to help 

translate what they are learning in the classroom into real-world 

uses. And from a philanthropic standpoint, our community relations team launched a project called the Algebra Readiness Initiative, which was intended to increase the number of middle school 

students prepared to be successful in Algebra I, which is a gateway 

course for STEM and computer science. 

The key was to use specialized SAS software to identify those 

students who were not enrolled in Algebra I but who had the potential to do well. The first year for this program was the 2010– 

11 school year, and SAS is pleased to say that during the first year 

of enrollment, enrollment in Algebra I increased by 38 percent 

across the districts and 96 percent scored at or above proficient. 

We’re also working with universities across the country to develop masters in analytics programs and certifications. But it will 

take some time before the supply of these students meets the demands. 

From an overall business perspective, SAS is extremely encouraged by the Common Core State Standards. We believe that this 

effort is a major step forward in helping us ensure rigorous, con-
7 

sistent educational standards across the United States that will 

help us catch up with our international counterparts. 

In summary, even with SAS’s reputation and culture, we are 

having difficulty finding technical talent needed to keep up with a 

growing market. This is not just a problem for SAS. It is a problem 

for all of us. As reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, more 

than 800,000 high-end computing jobs will be created by 2018, 

making this one of the fastest growing occupational areas. If we 

don’t make change, we will not be ready. 

I appreciate the opportunity to share the challenges and strategies that SAS is using to address this issue. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Mann follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JENNIFER MANN

SUMMARY

SAS is the world’s largest privately held software company that provides software 

and services to a wide range of customers. We are best known for our analytical 

software, which enables our customers to use data to solve complex problems, often 

in real time. Leading analysts recognize SAS as the market leader in many of the 

industry segments in which we compete, based both on market share and quality 

of offering. As a company, we invest heavily in research and development, mostly 

here in the United States; on average we invest about 24 percent of revenues in 

R&D. This R&D investment is necessary to keep our products responsive to customer and market demands. We compete with other global companies in this space, 

both those headquartered domestically and internationally. 

The key to SAS’ sustained success has always been its people. Challenged to innovate, empowered to experiment and inspired to collaborate. From a hiring standpoint, SAS needs individuals that possess higher level math, statistics, and computer programming skills. We also need individuals with extensive domain expertise 

in specific industry segments, such as financial services, health care, and government. Finally, we need individuals who also possess ‘‘soft’’ skills, such as critical 

thinking and communication skills. These skills are important to SAS because a 

large percentage of SAS employees interact with customers, and thus must be able 

to communicate, collaborate, and comprehend. Given the skill set that SAS seeks, 

we look extensively to the graduate level and beyond. Ideally, our candidates have 

professional experience. These skills are highly desirable, particularly in companies 

that are not software developer, and, as a result, there is fierce competition for 

these candidates. 

The remainder of the testimony discusses why there is so much competition for 

qualified individuals, challenges that we see in terms of preparing students to enter 

our workforce prepared, and what SAS, as a company, is trying to do to help resolve 

some of these challenges. 

Chairman Harkin, Ranking Member Enzi, members of the committee, thank you 

for the opportunity to participate in today’s hearing, ‘‘The Key to Global Competitiveness: A Quality Education.’’ My name is Jenn Mann and I am the vice president 

of Human Resources for SAS. Headquartered in Cary, NC. SAS is the market leader 

in business analytics software and services, and the largest independent vendor in 

the business analytics space. Though we started with five employees 36 years ago, 

today SAS employs more than 12,000 individuals in 56 countries. About 5,000 of our 

employees live in North Carolina, another 1,000 around the United States, including 

large offices in Maryland, Connecticut, Colorado, Texas and Massachusetts, and 

smaller sales offices in a number of other States. 

THE BUSINESS OF SAS

SAS is about helping our customers solve critical business problems by integrating and analyzing data, and sharing the insights gained from the analysis 

through various reporting capabilities. In short, SAS provides the Power to KnowTM

by ensuring that every decisionmaker has the right information, at the right time, 

in the right format. Let me give a couple of examples to more concretely demonstrate what SAS enables: 
8 

• pharmaceutical companies use SAS to analyze drug clinical trials before FDA 

approval; • banks use SAS to analyze millions of transactions to detect potential money 

laundering and fraud; • manufacturers use SAS to understand call center and warranty card information to detect both developing product issues, as well as problems in the supply 

chain; • retailers use SAS to understand which products, in which sizes/colors/shapes 

need to be in which stores in what timeframes, as well as optimal pricing for each 

product; • State governments use SAS to detect potential overpayments from government 

programs, manage criminal justice offender data, and analyze State pension risk; 

and • the Federal Government uses SAS, not only to detect fraud, waste and abuse, 

but to improve the assessments and accuracy of critical homeland security programs 

such as E-Verify and cargo screening. 

We are a unique company and quite proud of our history and results. Although 

we incorporated in 1976, the base software for SAS was developed while our founders were on staff at North Carolina State University. Today, SAS is recognized as 

a market leader in many of the industry segments in which we compete, based both 

on market share and quality of offering. We are gratified by the recognition given 

the level of competition in these markets from both domestic and international companies. One of the reasons that SAS leads is the amount of investment it makes 

in research and development. On average, SAS invests about 24 percent of its revenues annually in R&D activities. 

The key to our success is our people. When the founders decided to separately incorporate, they had a distinct vision for creating an environment and set of work 

principles that would encourage innovation and creativity. From the outset, Jim 

Goodnight, SAS’ founder and CEO, has believed that making employees a priority 

makes good business sense, and that it is his job, as CEO to ensure that each employee returns the next day. As we note in our 2009 corporate overview, ‘‘The philosophy that drives SAS is simple: Put employees and customers first and the benefits 

will follow . . .:’’ In short, SAS employees are challenged to innovate, empowered 

to experiment, and inspired to collaborate. 

CORPORATE RECOGNITION

There have been many articles and reports that independently document the SAS 

culture, including a Stanford Business School study and a lengthy report several 

years ago on 60 Minutes. As the person responsible for Human Resources, the ‘‘evidence’’ that I am most proud of is the continuing recognition in the United States 

and abroad that SAS is ‘‘a great place to work,’’ according to Fortune magazine. For 

2012, SAS ranks No. 3 on the list; for the two previous years, we were the best place 

to work. I am not exaggerating when I say that this recognition, which is largely 

based on employee feedback, is critically important to our CEO and other senior executives. 

This background is important because people want to come to work at SAS, and 

we want to recruit and retain the best and the brightest. And, because of our culture and employee commitment, we have an industry-low employee turnover rate 

(4 percent, versus 20 percent for our competitors.) 

SAS HIRING NEEDS

Given our business, SAS recruits for specific skills. The skills that we are looking 

for today include: 

• SAS certification or SAS programming skills (SAS itself is a computer language); 

• Programming skills in Java, C, C++, Unix, and other languages; 

• Database experience, including experience in SQL, Oracle and others; 

• Adobe Flash/Adobe Flex, which are Web visual technologies; and 

• HTML 5 

Given rapid developments in cloud and mobile computing applications, we are also 

looking for expertise in: 

• IOS development for mobile applications; 

• Grid computing technology capabilities and expertise; 

• Software as a Service capabilities and expertise; 

• Network storage capabilities and expertise; and 

• Data management/big data knowledge and expertise. 
9 

In addition to these specific skills, SAS also needs higher level expertise in several 

different areas. From an analytical perspective, SAS recruits talent with deep analytical expertise in the areas of statistics, operations research, and econometrics. 

Typically, the level of expertise that we are seeking is at the post-graduate level, 

particularly at the Ph.D. level. As important, we need individuals with substantive 

domain expertise in almost all industry areas, such as health care, financial services, energy, retail, manufacturing, and government (both State and Federal). Almost all of our employees have at least an undergraduate degree, with the overwhelming majority of staff having at least some type of advanced degree. 

The pool of candidates that can meet these requirements is not large, and I will 

discuss some of the reasons for this and what SAS is doing to try to rectify this 

in a moment. I do want to mention, however, that as important as these qualities 

are, equally important to SAS is that our employees, even those working in our consulting and Research and Development functions, also need to have ‘‘softer’’ skills. 

These include: 

• Relationship skills; • Ability to critically think and solve problems; • Collaborate; and • Be self-directed learners. 

The reason we seek these skills is twofold. One is that many of our employees 

are directly engaged with customers. They need to be able to communicate with 

these customers and to translate the information that they receive into actionable 

items. The second, related reason is that we want to become a trusted business 

partner for our customers. We want to be the first place our customers call when 

they have complex problems that they need to solve. Beyond having the relevant 

expertise in computer programming and analytics, our employees need to be able 

to build these kinds of collaborative relationships with our customers. 

Another unusual feature of SAS is that we do not outsource functions. For example, we offer onsite child care and health care. The care providers, nurses, doctors, 

and staff are all SAS employees. We have several cafeterias in Cary—the employees 

of the cafeteria are SAS employees. We have landscaping requirements and the individuals that handle landscaping are SAS employees. I mention this because there 

are some opportunities at SAS that do not necessarily require post-secondary employment, but these positions are very few. In most instances, the people that we 

are looking for, even in these positions, have extensive experience. 

RECRUITMENT STRATEGIES

Given the total package of skills that SAS seeks, our recruitment tends to focus 

on those already working professionally, supplemented with recruitment at the 

graduate and Ph.D. levels. The competition for these skills is extremely fierce. The 

ability to program SAS, by itself, is a very desirable skill that is sought in a variety 

of careers, including technology, manufacturing, finance and health care (particularly the pharmaceutical sector.) While people do want to work for SAS given our 

culture and commitment to employees, our brand alone is not enough to attract the 

types of talent that we need. We have, instead, begun to be more proactive about 

our recruitment practices, and have started using the power of networking and social media to help identify potential candidates before our need arises. We use a 

combination of social networking sites and Web searching to identify potential candidates. Once we have identified a pool of candidates, we can then tailor recruiting 

campaigns to educate individuals about SAS opportunities, and ultimately, to encourage to come to work for SAS. To illustrate, while historically much of SAS’ recruiting has come from North Carolina State University, we decided recently to expand our search. We identified the top skills that we needed, and then matched 

these skills with the top 10 universities graduating students with these skills. Using 

a certain search methodology and key terms, we constructed a search and identified 

about 500 potential students. Once the list of candidates was identified, we could 

construct individualized recruitment campaigns, complete with links to job postings 

at SAS. This is a new strategy and we are encouraged by the early returns. 

EDUCATIONAL PATHWAYS AND LONG-TERM HIRING CHALLENGES

An ideal curriculum pathway for someone wanting to come to SAS would look 

something like the following: children in high school pursue courses of study in 

science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). Once entering college, majors 

would include computer science or information systems; quantitative courses in 

STEM, or analytical/statistical courses. At the advanced degree level, fields of study 

could include advanced analytical degrees, Masters or Ph.D. degrees in STEMrelated areas, statistics or applied math, or computer science. 
10 

As I stated, the pool of candidates for most of our positions is limited. Yet, as 

noted by the ‘‘Change the Equation (CTEq)’’ coalition (of which SAS is a member), 

‘‘STEM is an economic imperative. Experts say that technological innovation accounted for almost half of U.S. economic growth over the past 50 years and almost 

all of the 30 fastest-growing occupations in the next decade will require at least 

some background in STEM.’’ The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that by 2018, 

more than ‘‘800,000 high-end computing jobs will be created, making it one of the 

fastest growing occupational areas.’’ (Source: Computing in the Core: Top 10 Facts 

About Computing Science.) As CTEq eloquently summarizes, ‘‘A literate nation not 

only reads. It computes, investigates and innovates.’’ SAS could not agree more with 

this sentiment. 

At the same time, we are not producing enough graduates in these areas. As further documented by CTEq: 

• Only 45 percent of high school graduates in 2011 were ready for college work 

in math and 30 percent in science; 

• In 2009, only 34 percent of 8th grade students were rated proficient or higher 

in a national math assessment and more than 1 in 4 scored below the basic level; 

• According to 2009 test results of an international exam given to 15-year-olds, 

U.S. high school students ranked significantly behind 12 industrialized nations in 

science, and behind 17 in math. 

According to the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, in 2009, 34.3 percent of White/Asian American freshmen students intended to pursue STEM studies 

and 34.1 percent of Underrepresented Minorities planned to pursue STEM studies. 

In looking at graduation rates for freshmen indicating an interest in STEM in 2004, 

the same study found that only 24.5 percent of White students completed STEM degrees within 4 years, and 32.4 percent of Asian American students finished within 

4 years. Comparative statistics for Latino, Black and Native American students are 

15.9 percent, 13.2 percent and 14.0 percent, respectively. The 5-year completion 

rates, respectively, for all groups are: 33 percent, 42 percent, 22.1 percent, 18.4 percent, and 18.8 percent. As alarming, the same study suggests that a large percentage of students in all demographic groups who initially express interest in pursuing 

STEM studies do not complete any degree, even within 5 years. (Source: ‘‘Degrees 

of Success: Bachelor’s Degree Completion Rates Among Initial STEM Majors,’’ Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, January 2010.) The point is that the 

problem is not just preparing students at the K–12 level to study math and science; 

as a Nation, we also need to examine what is occurring at the collegiate level that 

discourages students from remaining in STEM disciplines. 

An equally acute need, for SAS and for our Nation, is having students who are 

literate computer programmers, both in commercial grade software and in SAS. This 

may be our single greatest hiring need, and we are competing for this limited talent 

not just with other software companies, but with our customers, who need this talent as well. Unfortunately, there are real challenges to encouraging the study of 

computer science, separate and distinct from the challenges associated generally 

with STEM. The most critical includes the fact that most States do not have standards to encourage the study of computer science, and even fewer have programs to 

certify teacher competence in computer science. Too many people assume that understanding how to work a computer or mobile device is sufficient to serve as ‘‘computer science’’ education. To us, this is merely an example of technology literacy. 

In contrast, 

‘‘computer science education means an academic discipline that encompasses 

the study of computers and algorithmic processes, including their principles, 

their hardware and software designs, their applications, and their impact on society.’’ 

(Source: Computing in the Core, ‘‘Computer Science in K–12 Education: Critical 21st 

Century Skills and Understanding/Understanding Computer Science Education, Information Technology and Technology Literacy’’). 

EMBRACING EDUCATION IS BOTH AN ECONOMIC IMPERATIVE AND PHILANTHROPIC

PASSION FOR SAS

SAS has been committed to helping improve education in our communities for 

many years. This commitment stems from the belief of our CEO that education is 

the driver of economic growth. Having a strong educational system is critical to our 

long-term success as a company. This belief not only permeates our culture, but is 

a driver for many of our workforce, policy, and philanthropic activities. 

From a workforce perspective, SAS has developed outreach initiatives to try to 

reach high school students to educate them about potential technology career oppor-
11 

tunities and to encourage them to consider SAS as a future employer. One is a formalized program that we, in Human Resources, have titled ‘‘Discover.Lead.Solve.’’ 

Held in February 2012, SAS brought together five high schools (including 60 students) in North Carolina and Virginia. What these high schools had in common is 

that each is teaching SAS programming and each of the student participants is taking this programming course. The goal was to help translate what they are learning 

in the classroom to real world possibilities. In other words, how do the skills they 

are learning in the classroom translate into helping local law enforcement solve 

crimes, or enable health care providers deliver better patient care. A second important goal is to provide a career exploration platform for students to see what a 21st 

century business looks like. The program, which is free of charge to the participating schools, lasts for about the length of one school day. The presenters during 

the day are all SAS employees, holding a variety of positions within SAS. The interesting thing about these events is that they involve collaboration across SAS enterprises—Human Resources, SAS Education Practice (which is our business unit focused on the Education industry), and SAS Community Relations were involved in 

the planning and execution of the event, and individuals from a wide number of 

SAS business units and R&D were involved in the actual events. We expect Discover.Lead.Solve to be an annual event. 

SAS has held similar kinds of programs in the past, and we continually get requests to host workshops for schools at all different levels. Given the number of requests, we utilize an approach to ‘‘act regionally while thinking globally’’ in deciding 

which requests to accommodate. One school request is worth mentioning, involving 

a program with an Algebra I class from a local high school, Warren New Tech High 

School in Warrenton, NC. We have had Warren come to SAS each of the last 2 

years. For those on the committee not familiar with this high school, it serves a predominantly low-income student population, with roughly 70 percent of the student 

population on free or reduced school lunch. After coming to SAS and learning about 

computer science and careers in technology, here is the feedback that we received 

from the Algebra I teacher: 

‘‘Half of my students did not pass Algebra I last year and are in my class. 

Students have vague aspirations to get into college or the military service. An 

overwhelming majority have not made the connections between their success 

now and future career opportunities. Many have not been exposed to what is 

out there. I would like for the visit to touch on some of these themes: hard work 

now equals future success and how important studying math is. My goal is for 

the visit to expose them to what is out there and encourage them to take their 

coursework even more seriously. . . . Many deep and sincere thanks for all your 

help and having an awesome site visit. My students walked away from the visit 

inspired and motivated to keep working hard. Already I am noticing some huge 

changes in my classroom. Students feel a sense of purpose that did not exist 

before. I credit the visit for making them realize what they were missing.’’ 

Another internally collaborative effort involves acquainting students with SAS 

Programming. For several years, SAS has provided SAS resources—including instructional materials and guides to university professors, free of charge, to help 

them incorporate SAS into classroom instruction. More recently, SAS has expanded 

this effort to the high school level in a program named ‘‘SAS Programming for High 

School.’’ This program is a week-long program whereby we bring high school teachers from around the country to SAS for a 1-week training course on SAS programming. Once the course is completed, we provide teachers with the software and instructional materials they need to teach SAS programming back in their schools. All 

software and materials are provided at no cost to educators, and any travel fees incurred may be reimbursed through Perkins funds. 

In a global economy, high school graduates with insufficient quantitative skills 

will be unprepared for college programs in technical majors required for STEM careers. As our own course progressions suggest, entry into these careers begins with 

proper preparation and subsequent access to advanced level courses. One of the critical gateways that facilitate this preparation in middle school is access to Algebra 

I. 

In response to this gap, SAS Community Relations has launched the ‘‘Algebra 

Readiness Initiative (ARI).’’ The objective of the ARI was to increase the number 

of students prepared to be successful in Algebra I in middle school. The collaboration involved not just SAS, but the Triangle High Five Partnership consisting of five 

public school districts in the Triangle (Chapel Hill-Carrboro, Durham, Johnston, Orange and Wake County.) Planning for the ARI began in 2009. Superintendents from 

these school districts, using specialized SAS software to analyze district school data, 

identified that in most cases, less than 50 percent of 8th graders who were predicted 
12 

to be successful in Algebra I were actually not enrolled in the course. After initial 

meetings with superintendents and math curriculum directors, SAS hosted a number of meetings for principals, teachers, and guidance counselors to discuss ways in 

which the districts could collaborate to address this gap. Each district developed 

their own plan, based on these discussions, tailored to meet their unique populations and available resources. The result was that in the spring, 2010, all five districts modified their approaches to ensure that students capable of being successful 

were actually enrolled in Algebra I for the 2010–11 school year. As a result, 8th 

grade enrollment in Algebra I increased by an average of 38 percent across the districts, and 96 percent of the students scored at or above the proficient level. The 

initiative continues to focus on teacher training to ensure that educators are better 

prepared with deeper math content knowledge, especially throughout middle school 

grades. This strategy will help teachers in North Carolina use the lessons learned 

as they transition to teaching on the Common Core State Standards. 

These examples suggest that building partnerships with the surrounding school 

infrastructure bears important rewards. The partnerships are not limited to K–12 

institutions, but have to include institutions of higher education as well. In SAS’ 

case, besides providing teaching and materials support, we have been actively engaged with North Carolina State University to develop a Masters of Analytics program. Essentially, the only way we are going to produce people with kinds of analytics expertise that we and other industries require is to help build the actual academic content for these programs. SAS is extremely encouraged by our efforts to create masters programs, with new ones at Texas A&M, Louisiana State University, 

and Northwestern launching this year. These are in addition to more than 40 certificate programs we support. Despite these efforts, the supply of analytics students 

still cannot keep pace with the demand for these skills. 

From a policy perspective, I have already mentioned our involvement with CTEq, 

as well as our involvement with the Computing in the Core (CinC) coalition. We are 

hopeful that the message and efforts of the CinC coalition will lead to not just more 

emphasis on the distinct needs of computer science education, but will encourage 

States to think more critically about the curriculum requirements and professional 

certification that is needed for this course of study. It is an absolute imperative for 

our Nation. 

I do want to spend a few minutes talking about the importance of the Common 

Core State Standards (CCSS) and what SAS believes it will accomplish. Under the 

CCSS initiative, math courses in North Carolina and 45 other States will, for the 

first time, be based on international benchmarks and comparable to other countries 

that outrank us on assessments, such as the Program for International Assessment 

(PISA). Beginning next year, math courses in North Carolina, Massachusetts, or any 

of the other participating States and District of Columbia will be comparable. SAS 

believes that the CCSS presents a chance to catch up with other countries that are 

out-performing the United States. This is a critical step in preparing our students 

for the global economy, and a step that the business community can and should 

fully support. However, for the CCSS to be successful, the standards must be implemented with consistency and fidelity. We must also provide training to prepare our 

teachers for this huge shift. While the States have signed on to a consistent set of 

standards, the timeframe for implementation varies widely. North Carolina, for example, has agreed to implement the standards by the start of the 2013 school year, 

with testing to begin at the end of the school year. This is an enormous step forward, and while we have concerns regarding whether North Carolina teachers (and 

teachers in other States) are prepared to teach to the more robust requirements, we 

will take this moment to celebrate and support progress. 

There are any number of other SAS educational initiatives that I could mention, 

but I think I will conclude by highlighting just one. Through the efforts of SAS’ 

Community Relations team, we were a founding partner of the North Carolina 1:1 

Learning Collaborative. According to the Southern Region Education Board, nearly 

3,000 students in the region drop out of high school every school day. Nationally, 

the studies suggest that 1 in 4 students leave school without graduating annually. 

While the reasons for the high drop-out rate are complicated, we believe that one 

factor may be boredom, and the limited use of technology in the classroom. Other 

studies have validated that the use of technology—including the use of computers 

and/or laptops and access to the Internet—may be key to encouraging middle school 

students to pursue STEM education. (Source, Lenovo 2011 Global Student Science 

and Technology Outlook). The North Carolina 1:1 Learning Collaborative attempted 

to address these issues by providing laptops, professional development and critical 

support to schools and rural districts in North Carolina. In short, it was a pilot effort to help participating high schools in North Carolina take a strategic approach 

to creating future-ready schools. The effort was evaluated by the Friday Institute 
13 

at NC State, and has culminated in Redesign 2.0, and a framework for how to implement and replicate in other schools and communities. A growing number of 

schools are using this framework to launch their own 1:1 Learning Initiatives. We 

believe that students who graduate from these schools will be prepared to work and 

prosper in our global economy. 

CONCLUSION

Even with the culture, commitment and resources of SAS, we are having a difficult time finding the talent that combines the right technical skills with necessary 

‘‘soft’’ skills. We are competing for these exceptional talents with many other companies, which has forced us to become proactive relationship-builders to successfully 

recruit the talent we need. Education at all levels is the key to our future, as a company and as a Nation. Although much work remains to put the United States back 

into a competitive position with the educational systems and standards of other nations, SAS believes that there is important work that has been done. Because of our 

commitment, we are trying to do our part, and appreciate this opportunity to share 

our story. Thank you and I am happy to answer any questions you might have. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Ms. Mann. 

And now we’ll turn to Mr. Kolb. 

Welcome and please proceed. 

STATEMENT OF CHARLES KOLB, M.A., J.D., PRESIDENT OF THE 

COMMITTEE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (CED), WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. KOLB. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, Senator Enzi, 

Senators Bingaman and Hagan, thank you very much for inviting 

me to speak on behalf of the Committee for Economic Development. 

CED was founded in 1942, so this is our 70th anniversary. And 

as some of you may know, one of our early signature projects led 

to the development of the Marshall Plan to rebuild Western Europe 

after World War II. Since then, we’ve been active with our 200 

business leaders on the board focusing on issues such as campaign 

finance reform, healthcare, deficit reduction, the structure of the 

Federal debt, globalization and trade, corporate governance, and, of 

course, education. 

Mr. Chairman, I think I’m correct in saying this is the first time 

in CED’s 70 years of history where we are actively engaged in all 

aspects of education reform—early childhood education, K–12, and 

post-secondary education—where we will have a report released 

later in April. 

I want to point out at the beginning that next year is the 30th 

anniversary of A Nation at Risk. And that report launched a wave 

of accountability, a focus on standards assessment, measurement, 

and testing, which I think, on balance, has been pretty good for the 

country. You’ve seen it on a bipartisan basis. Presidents Bush and 

Clinton embraced National Education Goals. President George W. 

Bush had No Child Left Behind, and President Obama has Race 

to the Top. I think it’s fair to say that over 30 years, you’ve had 

a focus on K–12 reform, which has been good, not finished, but 

good. 

Meanwhile, during that 30-year period—this may be controversial, but I’m going to say that post-secondary education pretty 

much got a pass. A lot of the focus when I was here testifying before was on important issues like access and financing. But only recently, within the last few years, have people begun to ask questions about access to what? What is the quality of our post-secondary education? What should our young people know and be able 
14 

to do as a result of their experience either with a 2-year, 4-year, 

or a proprietary school? 

And my thesis for you this morning is that there are three factors that are driving this new wave of accountability for post-secondary education. And I sum them up as cost, competition, and 

technology. 

The cost should be pretty obvious. It was George Washington 

University in the city that was the first institution to charge 

$50,000 to go to college. That’s the full sticker price. And this year, 

we’ve seen that Sarah Lawrence College is close to $60,000. Now, 

that’s a lot of money for most people. And if you’re buying a luxury 

automobile at $60,000, particularly if you have to buy four of them 

in a row or five or six, depending on how long it takes you to graduate, you’re going to ask a lot of questions about what kind of car 

you’re getting for that $60,000. 

I think this is a good part of the accountability movement. So 

cost is driving questions that weren’t asked before. 

Second, competition. I would refer you to one book which I found 

really fascinating. It’s by the scholar, Ben Wildavsky, at the 

Kauffman Foundation in Kansas City. It’s called The Great Brain 

Race. And Ben Wildavsky makes the point that the competition we 

face in education is for supply—it’s on the supply side, it’s on the 

demand side, it’s competition for students, it’s competition for faculty, and it’s global. 

You see things happening in the Middle East, in Asia, in India, 

where those countries are making major investments to create 

first-class, world-class institutions intended to rival our own. So we 

can’t simply rest on our laurels and congratulate ourselves on having the best institutions. We’ve got real competition. 

And then, finally, the point about technology, I think, is really 

interesting, and I think it’s a point that makes it clear that the current business model of many of our 2-year and 4-year institutions 

is broken. Now, I don’t want to imply that technology is a magic 

bullet. I’m not talking about turning everything into online courses. 

But if you look at what’s happening at places like MIT or Western Governors University, you see a different approach to delivering post-secondary education. And I would point out to you two 

really fascinating articles that were in Monday’s New York Times 

about massive open online courses. 

Dr. Hanushek, one or two of the examples came from Stanford, 

where you had two professors who had an online course called 

Building a Search Engine, which had 90,000 students. You had another Stanford professor who had an artificial intelligence course 

that attracted 160,000 students in 90 countries and was translated 

into 44 languages versus 200 students on campus at Stanford and 

30 people who took the final exam. I would submit to you that technology by itself is going to up-end the existing business model and 

change the focus on bricks and mortar into something totally different that we can’t necessarily identify even now. 

The Committee for Economic Development will have a report on 

some ideas around postsecondary-education reform that will come 

out late next month. And we’re going to look at issues such as 

transparency, efficiency, productivity, and innovation throughout 
15 

the sector. These are words that typically don’t come up in the 

post-secondary sector. They’re more in the corporate sector. 

But we think that this is a very positive time for American postsecondary education. And CED, I hope, Mr. Chairman, can do in 

post-secondary education what I think you know we’ve tried to do 

in earlier reports on early childhood education and K–12. 

Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kolb follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHARLES KOLB, M.A., J.D. 

SUMMARY

The Committee for Economic Development is a nonpartisan, business-led public 

policy organization based in Washington, DC. We have close to 200 senior business 

leaders and university presidents on our Board of Trustees, and our current cochairs are Roger W. Ferguson, Jr., the CEO of TIAA–CREF, and Donald Peterson, 

the former CEO of Avaya. 

Until fairly recently, America’s postsecondary-education sector has managed to 

avoid the types of accountability questions that have characterized K–12 education 

policy discussions. For much of the last 30 years, post-secondary education’s public 

policy debates have primarily concerned important questions relating to access and 

financing but relatively few questions about ‘‘access to what? ’’—about the quality 

of that American postsecondary-education experience and what our young people 

should know and be able to do as a result of their experience. 

In the last few years, however, that benign neglect has started to change. Today 

there are three factors that are driving this change and resulting in more questions 

being asked about American post-secondary education. These factors are cost, competition, and technology. 

These accountability questions are at the heart of rising competition—competition 

that wasn’t there 20 or 30 years ago. Moreover, that competition is for both supply 

and demand; it is also global in its nature. Read the excellent study entitled ‘‘The 

Great Brain Race,’’ by Ben Wildavsky, and you will appreciate that universities 

around the world are competing for both talented students and faculty. Countries 

such as China, India and the United Arab Emirates are making substantial public 

investments in post-secondary education—in some cases trying to emulate the best 

American research institutions through billions of dollars worth of infrastructure 

and human capital investments. 

We are also seeing an increased focus on promoting greater transparency, efficiency, productivity, and innovation throughout America’s post-secondary sector. 

The change is being ably assisted by reports such as McKinsey & Company’s 2011 

study, ‘‘An economy that works: Job creation and America’s future.’’ Likewise, the 

champion of the concept of ‘‘disruptive innovation,’’ Harvard University professor 

Clayton Christensen has partnered with Innosight to write a must-read study, ‘‘Disrupting College: How Disruptive Innovation Can Deliver Quality and Affordability 

to Post-Secondary Education,’’ that details the ways in which ‘‘disruptive innovation’’ is changing American education. 

And it is vitally important that business play a role in shaping post-secondary 

education policy. There’s the obvious reason of self-interest: most CEOs with whom 

I speak are concerned about the future skills of the American workforce. These business leaders are also on the frontline when it comes to appreciating the skills that 

are needed in the workforce. And I would add that business leaders can be powerful 

change agents because they have all faced similar challenges and competition over 

the last 20 years in their own activities. They understand change, have had to embrace—not fear—it, and can help make change happen. 

On behalf of the Trustees and staff of the Committee for Economic Development, 

I thank you for the opportunity to share these thoughts with you at today’s hearing. 

CED looks forward to working with leaders in Congress, as well as in our States 

and local communities, to ensure that America offers the finest, most efficient, most 

productive, and most affordable range of quality post-secondary education opportunities in the world. 

Chairman Harkin, Senator Enzi and members of the committee, thank you for the 

opportunity to speak with you today. The Committee for Economic Development is 

a nonpartisan, business-led public policy organization based in Washington, DC. We 
16 

have close to 200 senior business leaders and university presidents on our Board 

of Trustees, and our current co-chairs are Roger W. Ferguson, Jr., the CEO of 

TIAA–CREF and the former vice-chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, and Donald Peterson, the former CEO of Avaya. 

CED Trustees decide the policy issues we will address, participate in subcommittees to determine our findings and recommendations, and, increasingly, engage 

around the country to promote CED’s recommendations. We typically do not lobby, 

and the Trustees who participate in our organization are deeply committed to finding strategies that will promote greater economic growth and opportunity for all 

Americans. 

This year marks CED’s 70th anniversary. Our early work in the 1940s led to the 

creation of the Marshall Plan which helped rebuild Western Europe after World 

War II. In recent years we have presented a business voice urging important reforms in areas such as fiscal and tax policy, health care, campaign finance, corporate governance, international trade and globalization. Throughout much of CED’s 

history, one policy area, in particular, has been a major interest for our Trustees: 

education. 

As business leaders, CED Trustees understand that how we invest in human capital will determine how productive and competitive we are in the global economy. 

These human capital investments will also determine how equipped our citizens will 

be to meet their responsibilities as citizens of a vibrant democracy. 

It is because of these concerns that the Committee for Economic Development has 

become a leading business organization that focuses on the importance of education 

across the education continuum: the early years, kindergarten through 12th grade, 

and, more recently, post-secondary education. In fact, for the last decade, CED has 

become known around the country for its work in early childhood education. Our 

work with Professor James Heckman, a Nobel laureate in economics at the University of Chicago, has focused on efforts to quantify the returns on front-end investments in quality pre-K education. 

This effort to consider education spending from an investment perspective that 

asks tough accountability-oriented questions about the returns on these investments 

has had a major impact on early education spending around the country in both the 

public and private sectors. We can point to efforts like North Carolina’s ‘‘Smart 

Start’’ program and PNC Bank’s renewed $250 million support for its ‘‘Grow Up 

Great’’ initiative in communities across the Nation as successful examples of solid 

support for early childhood programs. 

A serious and sustained accountability movement began for K–12 education nearly 30 years ago with the publication of the widely read report on ‘‘A Nation at Risk.’’ 

That celebrated report led to efforts such as the National Education Goals of Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton, President George W. Bush’s ‘‘No Child 

Left Behind Act,’’ and President Barack Obama’s ‘‘Race to the Top’’ challenge. 

Until fairly recently, however, America’s post-secondary education sector has 

managed to avoid the types of accountability questions that have characterized K– 

12 education policy discussions. For much of the last 30 years, post-secondary education’s public policy debates have primarily concerned important questions relating 

to access and financing but relatively few questions about ‘‘access to what? ’’—about 

the quality of that American postsecondary-education experience and what our 

young people should know and be able to do as a result of their post-secondaryeducation experience. 

In the last few years, however, that benign neglect has started to change. Today 

there are three factors that are driving this change and resulting in more questions 

being asked about American post-secondary education. These factors are cost, competition, and technology. 

Let’s take cost first. From 1990 to 2009, college tuition and fees increased 274.7 

percent—much more than health care costs and the consumer price index. George 

Washington University became the first university in the country at which total 

costs reached $50,000, and recently Sarah Lawrence College announced a sticker 

price of over $59,000 for a student to attend that institution. Most people purchasing a luxury automobile at that price (especially if they had to buy a new one 

each year for 4 years) would ask a lot of questions about how much car they were 

getting for that amount. 

Now, I realize that because of grants, loans, endowment support, and other 

sources of funding, that cost figure may be different from what a typical student 

and his or her family pays, but the fact remains that inflation in post-secondary 

education is unsustainable, may be driving many young people to rethink the value 

of post-secondary education in terms of making an investment in their future careers, and has resulted in a debt load which has reached approximately $1 trillion 

in student loan debt (exceeding credit card debt for the first time) and saddled our 
17 

young people with financial obligations that often circumscribe their future career 

choices. For many indebted students, it is like having a mortgage but not having 

the house. Their hope is that the education and skills they have gained will enable 

them to become gainfully employed. 

At the same time, one solid benefit of these unsustainable price increases has 

been to drive accountability questions similar to the ones that Rick Hanushek and 

others have asked about our K–12 education system: when we are outspending the 

rest of the world on our post-secondary system, why aren’t the results better? Why 

do so many young people who start a college degree drop out? Why are our completion and attainment rates not any better? Why are so many resources being wasted 

in this sector? Does this experience lower the motivation for young people at a time 

when they need to be getting as much education as they possibly can? 

By the way, we see a similar challenge in America’s health care sector. Why is 

it that a country such as France spends about half as much on health care as we 

do but experiences far better outcomes when it comes to longevity, infant mortality, 

and obesity prevention? 

These accountability questions are at the heart of rising competition—competition 

that wasn’t there 20 or 30 years ago. Moreover, that competition is for both supply 

and demand; it is also global in its nature. Read the excellent study entitled ‘‘The 

Great Brain Race,’’ by Ben Wildavsky, a fellow at the Kauffman Foundation in Kansas City, and you will appreciate that universities around the world are competing 

for both talented students and faculty. Countries such as China, India and the 

United Arab Emirates are making substantial public investments in post-secondary 

education—in some cases trying to emulate the best American research institutions 

through billions of dollars worth of infrastructure and human capital investments. 

Europe’s Bologna Project is but one example of a continent-wide effort to harmonize 

degrees among many universities in a way that enables students to study in different schools in different countries and get a degree that reflects common standards of content and quality. Contrast that effort with the immense difficulty we now 

have in the United States of harmonizing credits and degrees between and among 

2-year community colleges and 4-year institutions. 

And finally, there can be little doubt that the information technology revolution 

of the last several years will have a major impact on both the cost of delivering postsecondary education and the manner in which such education is transmitted. In 

2009, the Committee for Economic Development’s Digital Connections Council, 

under the leadership of former IBM research chief Paul Horn, released an important 

report on the way in which the IT revolution was impacting American post-secondary education. Paul Horn, Chair of CED’s Digital Connections Council stated 

that, 

‘‘While other industries, such as finance and entertainment, have used openness to improve their business model, higher education has been slow to adapt 

to the digital information age. Creating, analyzing, and transmitting information is vital to teaching and learning, so it is a matter of concern that colleges 

and universities are lagging in utilizing technology to achieve greater openness 

to their core missions of teaching, learning and research.’’ 

Today we can see precisely how such efforts are playing out, whether it is through 

online courses at various proprietary schools, MIT’s open courseware initiative, or 

the success to date of Western Governors University’s approach to online learning 

in certain disciplines where students can earn both baccalaureate and advanced decrees at a significantly reduced cost. 

We are also seeing an increased focus on promoting greater transparency, efficiency, productivity, and innovation throughout America’s post-secondary sector. 

These four words are not terms that have traditionally been associated with postsecondary educators and administrators—but that situation is rapidly changing. The 

change is being ably assisted by reports such as McKinsey & Company’s 2011 study, 

‘‘An economy that works: Job creation and America’s future.’’ Likewise, the champion of the concept of ‘‘disruptive innovation,’’ Harvard University professor Clayton 

Christensen has partnered with Innosight to write a must-read study, ‘‘Disrupting 

College: How Disruptive Innovation Can Deliver Quality and Affordability to PostSecondary Education,’’ that details the ways in which ‘‘disruptive innovation’’ is 

changing American education. This study also discusses how such innovations can 

be brought to scale in the near future. 

In 2011, with funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Committee 

for Economic Development launched a trustee-led subcommittee to focus on ways in 

which greater innovation, productivity, and efficiency could drive needed reforms 

across the post-secondary sector. This CED subcommittee is co-chaired by Manpower Group Chairman & CEO Jeff Joerres and Bruce MacLaury, president emer-
18 

itus of the Brookings Institution. Another key member of this working group is 

Kelly Services president and CEO Carl Camden. 

Both Jeff Joerres and Carl Camden lead global companies that offer what might 

be called a microeconomic window on workforce trends in this country and abroad. 

Their companies are effectively ‘‘canaries in the coal mine,’’ because they often detect what is happening in labor markets here and around the world before government institutions and the media see these trends. Moreover, their business involves, 

among other things, filling positions that range from entry-level jobs to more technical positions requiring advanced doctoral degrees in engineering and the sciences. 

So they are in a unique position to see the skills being demanded by employers 

around the world and the skills being offered by workers in the countries in which 

their companies do business. 

Both of these CEOs will tell you that for America to be competitive at home and 

around the world, we need more people with more education. A high school degree 

is no longer enough and will be, in many instances, insufficient to qualify for many 

of today’s jobs that will compensate workers at middle class income levels and 

above. We also need more young people in America who pursue international studies and who demonstrate proficiency in foreign languages. 

Achieving the 21st century version of the American Dream will require a much 

more educated citizenry and workforce. We are now a knowledge-based and skillsoriented economy, and our education investments need to be focused laser-like on 

programs, strategies, and partnerships that can address this constantly changing 

national and international dynamic. Our workers face a competitive environment in 

which their skills must be constantly evolving and increasing if we are to have a 

dynamic and efficient workforce. 

The CED report, which we hope to release in New York City in late April, will 

highlight many of these trends and challenges. We will approach these issues from 

the perspective of looking at what we call broad-access institutions, the 2-year, 4- 

year, and proprietary institutions that will provide the facilities and courses that 

will serve most Americans seeking post-secondary education. We explicitly are not 

addressing the elite, research colleges and universities; they are important and are 

often referred to by many as our flagship post-secondary institutions, but because 

they serve a much smaller population, they are not the institutions that will provide 

most of the opportunities that our future workforce needs. 

The CED report will address issues that relate to State-level policies, in particular, State-level financing issues for the broad-access institutions. We hope to inform and mobilize business leaders across the country to become champions of postsecondary education reform in ways that will enable State officials to set outcomerelated goals, develop strategic financial plans, adopt meaningful metrics and other 

approaches that will enhance educational outcomes for these institutions. 

Now, I know that I’m being somewhat vague—intentionally so—because the final 

CED report is not yet ready for release. But I do pledge to this committee that you 

and your congressional colleagues will receive CED’s report next month, and I know 

that our business and university trustees will welcome your involvement as we try 

to engage business leaders in this effort in your States and around the Nation. 

And it is vitally important that business play a role in shaping post-secondary 

education policy. There’s the obvious reason of self-interest: most CEOs with whom 

I speak are concerned about the future skills of the American workforce. These business leaders are also on the frontline when it comes to appreciating the skills that 

are needed in the workforce. And I would add that business leaders can be powerful 

change agents because they have all faced similar challenges and competition over 

the last 20 years in their own activities. They understand change, have had to embrace—not fear—it, and can help make change happen. 

It is, in my view, a very positive sign, that within the last 3 years, there has been 

a growing interest in the way in which American post-secondary education—its opportunities and its challenges—will shape the future of our economy and our democracy. There has been an increasing number of studies and books on the topic by people such as Richard Arum; Derek Bok; Andrew Hacker & Claudia Dreifus; Pat 

Callan; William Zumeta; Joni Finney; Andy Rosen; Clayton Christensen; David 

Breneman; and, Ben Wildavsky. This development is a good sign, in my view. 

The Obama administration and major foundations such as the Bill & Melinda 

Gates Foundation and the Lumina Foundation have announced important attainment goals that are designed to make America first in the world in terms of the 

percentage of our population that have quality post-secondary credentials. We clearly as a nation need to increase dramatically both the completion level and the educational attainment level of our people. 

But what we’ve seen from time to time in our K–12 sector is that goals can be 

missed altogether or gamed along the way. We cannot afford to experience either 
19 

of those outcomes anymore. As we strive to meet these important completion goals, 

we should also make sure that we have a national discussion—local, State, and Federal—about what it is our post-secondary students should know and be able to do. 

Clearly the answer to that question in 2012 has to be fundamentally different from 

what it was even 10 years ago. 

On behalf of the trustees and staff of the Committee for Economic Development, 

I thank you for the opportunity to share these thoughts with you at today’s hearing. 

CED looks forward to working with leaders in Congress, as well as in our States 

and local communities, to ensure that America offers the finest, most efficient, most 

productive, and most affordable range of quality post-secondary education opportunities in the world. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Kolb. 

And now we’ll turn to Dr. Hanushek. 

Dr. Hanushek, please proceed. 

STATEMENT OF ERIC A. HANUSHEK, Ph.D., PAUL AND JEAN 

HANNA SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION, STANFORD 

UNIVERSITY, STANFORD, CA 

Mr. HANUSHEK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you and 

Senator Enzi and Senator Bingaman and your committee for taking leadership on this issue. 

I will state at the beginning and repeat it a couple of times that 

I think this is the most important issue facing the Nation today. 

Our schools, as you mentioned in your introduction, are not competitive internationally. They’re mediocre. They’re not the worst, 

but they’re far, far from the best. And this has huge implications 

for the future of our children and our Nation. 

The potential difference in our children’s future is really profound. On the current path with middling schools, we are going to 

be on a low-growth path in the future. And what that’s going to 

imply, among other things, is a continuing struggle about the distribution of income, about how we use our public resources and fiscal deficits. 

The alternative is choosing a different path that has better education for our children. And what this implies is a higher growth 

rate, which means that we can solve many of these distributional 

problems and fiscal problems not by getting the right balance between revenues and spending, but by increasing the size of the pie. 

And these are huge differences. What determines which path we’re 

on is the skills of the American worker, and the skills of the American worker are determined by the quality of our schools. 

What I want to do is fill in a few of the differences of these paths 

and talk about where we can go, briefly. Washington, as I see it 

from California, is fixated on the short run of how to deal with the 

ramifications of the 2008 recession. But the magnitude of the differences between the cost of the recession and not going into improving our long-run growth are just astounding. 

The most important determinant of the U.S. economy, as I say, 

is the skills of the workers in the economy. And when we look 

around the world and look at growth rates, which—growth rates 

determine our future well-being, as you know. I have a graph at 

the end of my written testimony that plots out growth rates of GDP 

per capita between 1960 and 2000 for countries of the world. And 

it plots them out against skills and achievement on math tests as 

seen by the PISA test or other international test. 
20 

What you see is that it’s virtually a straight line. Countries that 

have improved the skills of their workers grow faster. Now, the implications of this are easy to see if we just assume that the future 

is going to look like the past in terms of the growth and the impact 

on growth. 

Take an example where we could move the achievement of our 

students up to the level of, say, Germany or Australia. Now, in 

terms that you know, I’m sure, this is about 25 points on the PISA 

test, on math tests. So if we take this picture and project out into 

the future what that means for the U.S. GDP and look at the increase in GDP for somebody born today, who would be expected to 

live for 80 years, remembering that things in the future are worth 

less than those in the present, discount it at 3 percent, and we get 

the present value of that difference—$44 trillion for being in Germany and Australia. 

Now, nobody, at least outside of Washington, understands what $44 trillion means. But we have a GDP that’s less than $16 trillion 

today. The total cost of the 2008 recession to date is estimated at 

around $3 trillion. 

Take something closer to home than Germany and Australia. 

Take Canada, which looks kind of like the United States in many 

ways. If we could get the achievement of our students up to Canada, the present value of the increased GDP is on the order of $75 

trillion to $80 trillion. Now, in my estimation, this is something 

that warrants really substantial changes. We should take seriously 

what we can do. 

A couple of things I should say—one is this is not a situation of 

a few bad States dragging us down. I have another plot in the back 

of my written testimony where you can look up your own State. 

But you’ll see that our best State, Massachusetts, ranks behind 16 

other countries in terms of math performance. 

It is also not a case that it’s just that we have a particularly difficult-to-educate population. We do. We have a heterogeneous population, and we don’t want to minimize that. But if you take collegeeducated students from Massachusetts, sort of the best students 

from the best State, they will still rank behind seven countries. 

Our best students will still rank behind the average student in 

seven other countries. 

This is something that we have to take seriously, in my mind. 

Now, there are different views on how we can go about doing that. 

There are a couple of things I should say quickly. One is this is 

not a matter of just getting more kids to graduate from high school 

or to go to college if they aren’t learning anything. If students go 

to school and don’t learn anything, as measured by achievement, 

it doesn’t count, and that’s the simple facts. So if they get into college by lowering the admission standards, and they don’t learn 

anything, we’re not going to gain from that. 

There are many potential solutions to this problem. The one that 

I have advocated that some of you may know is improving the 

quality of teachers in the United States. I think that that’s an extraordinarily important issue. There are, of course, many different 

proposals of how to go about improving the quality of our teachers, 

and I can go into that later. But I think that we have to be doing 

something there. 
21 

The summary is—and I’ll stop now and we can talk later—is that 

this is such an important issue to our Nation and our future. It determines what our country will look like, whether we are an economic leader or not. And if we just do minor marginal things, like 

slightly smaller class sizes or, in my opinion, just going after great 

battles to the common core, we’re not going to solve this problem. 

We’re not going to lead to the kinds of differences that are important to our children. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hanushek follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ERIC A. HANUSHEK, PH.D. 

SUMMARY

While current policy discussions stress the short run economic and fiscal situation, the well-being of our society is much more dependent on long run growth. The 

international record of the last half century shows clearly that the skills of the labor 

force directly drive the rate of growth of economies. And, on this score, the United 

States is not well-positioned. Our schools are producing mediocre outcomes by international standards, and this dramatically constrains our future. 

If our schools could raise the performance of our students to the level of Germany 

or Australia, history suggests that our economy would grow faster—producing an 

addition to GDP of some $44 trillion in present value terms. If we could equal the 

results of Canadian schools, it would be worth $75–$80 trillion. (For comparison, the 

loss from the current recession is estimated at around $3 trillion). Such improvements of our schools would more than solve our fiscal problems and would dramatically change the economic well-being of our children. 

The problems of performance are the result neither of a few poorly performing 

States nor of a difficult to educate population. The most advantaged students from 

the best State still do not compete well with average students from a number of 

other nations. 

The issue is quality of skills and will not be solved by extending the time of students in school unless they are learning a lot during that time. That is the challenge 

and, if ignored, places our national future on a very much lower path. 

By world standards, our current education system is mediocre—not the worst but 

by far not the best. We should not allow this to continue. By choosing different education policies, we can substantially improve the lives of our children and the future 

place of our Nation in the world economy. 

The potential difference for our children’s future is not trivial, but profound. On 

our current path, we continue with our middling schools and moderate real income 

growth, which in turn yield increasing struggles and discord over the income distribution and how to spend our limited public budgets. But we could choose a different path, one with better-educated children, international economic leadership, 

and a faster growing economy. With this, we solve our fiscal and distributional problems not with battles over the balance of revenues and spending but by ensuring 

that the pie grows. 

Which path we are on is determined by the skills of American society, and the 

skills are determined by the quality of our schools. 

Let me fill in these paths, because in my opinion there is no more serious challenge facing our country. Nearly all of today’s policy debates focus narrowly on pulling out of the current downturn in the economy. But, frankly, the importance of 

dealing with this—and I realize its importance to many families today—is simply 

dwarfed by the long run growth of the economy. This focus on today may serve 

short-term political interests during this election year, but it neglects our children 

and their future. 

The most important determinant of the future well-being of the U.S. economy is 

the rate of economic growth. It is economic growth that has put us in our current 

position of leadership. And it is economic growth that will determine the fate of the 

next generations. 

The most important driver of economic growth is the skill of the labor force, what 

economists call human capital. This fact comes through clearly when we look at differences over the past half century in long run growth rates for countries around 

the world. Countries that have developed more skills in their population systematically have grown faster. 
22 

This can be seen from comparing growth to skills across countries (Figure 1). If 

we array growth rates in GDP per capita from 1960–2000 against international assessments of math achievement, we see that countries fall almost on a straight line. 

(The only other factor considered here is the starting point of each country, GDP 

per capita in 1960). 

This figure lays out our choices. Current U.S. students—the future labor force— 

are not competitive with students across the developed countries of the world. If we 

continue at this level of performance, we are surely on the low-growth future path— 

the complacent continuation of current policy that leaves us with a variety of increasingly difficult policy dilemmas. 

The different options (and results) can be laid out in a straightforward way. To 

see the implications of skills for the economy, let us assume that the future looks 

like the historical pattern. We can then project growth into the future under two 

alternatives: (1) our current level of achievement, and (2) what would be expected 

with improvement of our schools. 

Consider a school improvement program that brought us up to the level of Germany or Australia in math performance (approximately 25 points on the PISA tests) 

over the next 20 years. By historic outcomes, when these higher skilled students 

enter the labor force, they will produce an economy that grows faster. The results 

are stunning. If we discount the future at 3 percent per year to recognize that future 

gains are not as valuable as current gains, the improvement over the lifetime of 

somebody born today would have a present value of $44 trillion. Numbers like this 

have little meaning to most people, but we can think of some direct comparisons. 

Today’s economy has a total GDP of less than $16 trillion. The cost of the 2008 recession to date is perhaps $3 trillion. The projected fiscal deficits that have caused 

such policy anguish are far below what we are losing by not undertaking such an 

improvement in our schools. 

Here’s a comparison even closer to home. What would we project for the economy 

of bringing skills up to the level of Canada? A present value of $75–$80 trillion. 

The potential differences in the future of the United States economy are dramatic. 

These gains are equivalent to a level of GDP that on average is 6–10 percent higher 

every year for the next 80 years. It does not take a new CBO projection to realize 

that this eliminates the currently projected fiscal imbalances and leaves plenty to 

spare. 

While the gains from growth don’t accrue for some time into the future—until the 

kids are out of school and in the labor force—neither do the fiscal problems facing 

the Nation. The pattern of increasing Medicare costs match up quite nicely with the 

improvements to the economy from increased productivity growth. 

In the past we have had a dominant position in world growth despite the shortcomings of our schools by having other advantages: free movement of labor and capital, strong property rights, a limited government intrusion; an historic superiority 

in the level of school attainment; strong colleges and universities; and an ability to 

adopt skills produced elsewhere through immigration policies that allow skilled 

workers to enter. But, without belaboring it, each of these advantages has eroded 

considerably and probably should not be counted on in the future to carry our economy. 

It is also true that this is not a problem of a few States doing badly. If we compare the performance of individual States to nations around the world (Figure 2), 

we see that students in our best State (Massachusetts) in 2006 were not competitive 

with the average student in some 16 countries. My own State of California is competing with Portugal and Greece. 

Nor is it just a problem of having a particularly difficult-to-educate population. 

The children of college-educated parents in Massachusetts would still trail the average student in seven countries. 

My message is simple. The gains from improving our schools—or the costs of not 

doing so—are enormous. They are large enough that we should be willing to consider major alterations in policies. We know that changing things around the margin—like moving to even smaller class sizes or adding some more master’s degrees 

for our teachers or introducing the common core curriculum—have little hope of redressing the problems. 

It is important to stress that it is not just years in school, but what people know 

that counts. In terms of the differences in growth across countries, it is performance 

on international assessments that indicates the skill levels. It is not the years of 

schooling per se. If students spend more years in school but do not learn much, the 

gains are nil. The implication of this for our policies is that just trying to keep students in school—to graduate from high school or to college—works only if the students are learning something. And, if they come up to the last years of high school 
23 

with poor basic skills from earlier schooling, they probably do not learn a lot at the 

end. 

There are different views about the most effective policies for increasing skills. I 

am happy to provide my thoughts. As many of you might know, I believe that it 

is essential that we improve the quality of our teachers, although there are different 

ways to get to better teachers. 

I will stop here by underscoring the basic issue. We need to improve the skills 

of our population if we hope to continue as the world’s economic model. We have 

the resources to prepare our children for an outstanding future. It is only the will 

on our part to help them that can hold them back. 
24 

Appendix A. Hanushek, Eric A., Dean T. Jamison, Eliot A. Jamison, and Ludger 

Woessmann. 2008. ‘‘Education and economic growth: It’s not just going to school but 

learning that matters.’’ Education Next 8, no. 2 (Spring): 62–70 may be found at 

http://educationnext.org/education-and-economic-growth/. 

Appendix B. Peterson, Paul E., Ludger Woessmann, Eric A. Hanushek, and Carlos 

X. Lastra-Anado ́n. 2011. ‘‘Are U.S. students ready to compete? The latest on each 

State’s international standing.’’ Education Next 11, no. 4 (Fall): 51–9 may be found 

at http://educationnext.org/are-u-s-students-ready-to-compete/. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Hanushek, thank you very, very much. 

That’s very provocative—I mean, in a good sense. It provokes 

thinking. 

Mr. Murnane. 
25 

STATEMENT OF RICHARD MURNANE, Ph.D., JULIANA W. AND 

WILLIAM FOSS THOMPSON PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION AND 

SOCIETY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY GRADUATE SCHOOL OF 

EDUCATION, CAMBRIDGE, MA 

Mr. MURNANE. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in 

this panel today. I submitted our testimony on three topics: changing skill requirements in the labor force; second, disturbing trends 

in the distribution of skills; and, third, some ideas for improving 

American education. 

I’ll say a few words about the first two of these topics, highlighting some themes, although Senator Harkin and Senator Enzi 

have made this more difficult for me, because in your very nice 

opening statements, you said a lot of the points that I had hoped 

to make, and you did so very well, of course. 

Technological change and globalization have quite dramatically 

altered the skills required in the labor force. In particular, they 

have reduced the number of jobs that might be characterized as 

doing routine cognitive work—filing is a good example—or routine 

manual work, assembly line work. Why is that? Because those are 

the jobs that are easiest to computerize or to send offshore. What 

has increased are jobs that require what MIT economist Frank 

Levy and I call expert thinking and complex communication. 

Since a great many Americans learn a lot of those foundational 

skills that are needed to be good at expert thinking in the domain 

in which they work and complex communication, it’s not surprising 

that the economic return to educational attainments have increased in recent decades, increased dramatically during the 1980s, 

and have continued to stay very high. So one obvious point that 

stems from that is that it’s important that all American young people have the preparation to succeed in post-secondary education 

and the financial opportunity to undertake and succeed in post-secondary education. 

However, I don’t think it’s right to say we ought to aspire to all 

Americans having 4-year college degrees. I mean, there are a great 

many jobs that are important in the economy that require less than 

a 4-year bachelor’s degree. 

But, all those jobs, whether they require some post-secondary 

education or training initially or people could start with them right 

after high school, will require over the course of a work lifetime 

some post-secondary education and training. And that’s the reason 

why I think it is important that all students leave high school 

career- or college-ready, because they may not initially need subsequent education and training, but they will over their work lives, 

for sure, in order to remain productive and to earn a middle-class 

living, given the pace of technological change. 

The third point connected to skill requirements is that the challenge of preparing all young people to be college- and career-ready 

is a new challenge. And the Nation’s education institutions need to 

learn how to meet that challenge. It’s not simply a question of 

doing the same things for longer hours. The problem is that the 

educational system that was sufficiently good for the economy of 

the 1960s, where there were large numbers of jobs with people 

doing the same thing over and over again, is not good enough for 

the economy of the 21st Century. 
26 

On the second topic—how are we doing in terms of providing 

these skills and educational attainments? And here, as Eric 

Hanushek has said, not nearly as well as we need to. And particularly disturbing are the growing gaps in skills and educational attainments between young people from relatively affluent families 

and those from relatively low-income families. That gap in mathematics and English language arts skills has grown by a third over 

the last 30 years. 

That’s really a very disturbing pattern because, clearly, those 

skills are very important in predicting success in post-secondary 

education. And, of course, that’s why we see the pattern that Senator Harkin described, where the percentage of folks from top quartile income families who graduated from college increased by 21 

percent, while the percentage of students from bottom quartile income families who graduated from college has only increased 4 percent, from 5 to 9 percent. 

A stagnation of educational attainments, particularly of young 

people from relatively modest income families, from working-class 

families, is a pattern that really threatens the Nation’s prosperity. 

It also threatens in a profound way a value that Americans of all 

political persuasions hold dear, and that’s the idea that while a 

child may grow up poor, he has every reason to believe that if he 

or she works hard, his children will not grow up poor. And the path 

of this upward mobility for many generations of Americans was 

getting more education than their parents had. And that’s a pattern that is seriously threatened today. 

In fact, I’ll close with this statement. For the first time, the average educational attainment of individuals who are retiring, leaving 

the workforce, is higher than the average educational attainment 

of young people entering the workforce for the first time. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Murnane follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RICHARD J. MURNANE, PH.D. 

SUMMARY

I. CHANGING SKILL REQUIREMENTS

1. Over the last three decades, technological change and globalization have reshaped the occupational structure of the American workforce. Increasingly, work 

that consists primarily of carrying out routine cognitive tasks, such as filing, and 

routine manual tasks such as assembly line work, are either carried out by computer-guided machines or sent off-shore to lower wage countries. During this same 

period, work involving expert thinking in a particular domain and complex communication has grown in importance, primarily because these are tasks that computers cannot do well. 

2. Since Americans learn a great many of the skills needed to excel at expert 

thinking and complex communication in formal educational institutions, it is no surprise that the labor market payoffs to educational attainments increased markedly 

during the 1980s and have stayed very high. Not all American youth want to pursue 

4-year college degrees. Many want to enroll in 2-year vocationally oriented education and training programs. Some want to enter the military or the private workforce right after high school graduation. However, given the pace of technological 

change, almost all Americans will need to succeed in education or training programs 

over the course of their work lives in order to remain productive and to earn a middle-class living. For that reason it is important that youth leave high school with 

the tools to continue to learn effectively. One oft-used term is that youth should 

leave high school, college- and career-ready. 

3. Providing all American children with the high quality education they need to 

leave high school college- and career-ready is a new challenge for U.S. educational 
27 

1The evidence on changing skill demands and Figure 1 come from Murnane and Levy (1996) 

and Levy and Murnane (2004). 

institutions, one that they will be able to meet only with new ways of organizing 

teaching and learning. 

II. DISTURBING TRENDS IN THE DISTRIBUTION OF EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENTS

AND SKILLS

1. The gaps between the average reading skills and mathematical skills of children from relatively affluent families and those from relatively low-income families 

have increased by one-third over the last three decades. Gaps in college graduation 

rates between youth from top-quartile income families and those from bottom-quartile income families have also increased markedly. 

2. The increase in family-income inequality in recent decades has contributed to 

the increase in income-related gaps in educational outcomes through two sets of 

mechanisms: growing differences in parental resources devoted to children and 

growing differences in the quality of the schools children attended. 

3. The increasing gap between the cognitive skills and educational attainments of 

children from families in the bottom quarter of the income distribution and those 

in the top quarter threatens intergenerational upward socio-economic mobility and 

the Nation’s prosperity. 

III. IMPROVING AMERICAN K–12 EDUCATION

1. Schools that are effective in educating disadvantaged children well do much 

more than provide good instruction during a normal 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. school day. 

2. Accountability and capacity building are essential complements, not substitutes. 

3. The use of value-added models will improve education only if systematic attention is devoted to figuring out why children in some classrooms learn more than 

children in other classrooms. 

I thank the members of the U.S. Senate HELP Committee for the opportunity to 

submit testimony. My testimony consists of three parts, the first dealing with 

changes in the demand for skills in the U.S. workforce, the second dealing with recent disturbing trends in the distribution of educational attainments and skills 

among young Americans, and the third dealing with strategies to provide more 

Americans with the skills to be college- and career-ready. I make three points in 

each of the three parts to the testimony. 

I. CHANGING SKILL REQUIREMENTS

1. Over the last three decades, technological change and globalization have reshaped the occupational structure of the American workforce. Increasingly, work 

that consists primarily of carrying out routine cognitive tasks, such as filing, and 

routine manual tasks such as assembly line work, are either carried out by computer-guided machines or sent off-shore to lower wage countries. During this same 

period, work involving expert thinking in a particular domain and complex communication has grown in importance, primarily because these are tasks that computers cannot do well. Figure 1 illustrates how changes in the Nation’s occupational 

structure over the last three decades of the 20th century altered the types of tasks 

that the U.S. workforce carried out.1
28 

2Figure 2 is based on wage data from the Current Population Survey. 

Key elements of expert thinking include a deep understanding of causal relationships in the domain of work, skill at pattern recognition, initiative, and 

metacognition (the ability to monitor one’s problem-solving strategies). Key elements 

of complex communication include skill at observing and listening, eliciting critical 

information, interpreting the information, and conveying the interpretation to others 

both orally and in writing. Expert thinking and complex communication are not new 

subjects to add to the curriculum of the Nation’s schools. They can and should be 

fostered in the context of teaching the traditional core subjects. For example, high 

quality science instruction provides a forum for teaching both expert thinking and 

complex communication. Indeed, a necessary condition for increasing the number of 

students who leave high school prepared to thrive in Science, Technology, Engineer, 

and Mathematical (STEM) college majors is science instruction that consistently enhances students’ expert thinking and complex communication skills. 

2. Since Americans learn a great many of the skills needed to excel at expert 

thinking and complex communication in formal educational institutions, it is no surprise that the labor market payoffs to educational attainments have increased in recent decades. This pattern is illustrated in Figure 2, which shows trends over the 

period 1979–2009 in the average hourly earnings (adjusted for inflation) of male 

workers with different educational attainments.2 One lesson illustrated by Figure 

2 is the importance of providing all American youth with the knowledge, skills, and 

financial opportunities needed to enroll in and graduate from post-secondary educational programs. I return to this lesson later in this document. 
29 

Not all American youth want to pursue 4-year college degrees. Many want to enroll in 2-year vocationally oriented education and training programs. Some want to 

enter the military. Some want to pursue traditional trades such as plumber and 

electrician and others want to enter new trades, many related to technology and 

health. These trades, some old and some new, provide many opportunities to do valuable work and to earn a good living. However, given the pace of technological 

change, almost all Americans will need to succeed in education or training programs 

over the course of their work lives in order to remain productive and to earn a 

middle-class living. For that reason it is important that youth leave high school with 

the tools to continue to learn effectively. One oft-used term is that youth should 

leave high school, college- and career-ready. 

3. Providing all American children with the high quality education they need to 

leave high school college- and career-ready is a new challenge. The Nation’s educational institutions did not tackle this challenge in the past because the economy 

provided a great many jobs that consisted primarily of carrying out the same task 

over and over. Workers needed to be able to read, do simple arithmetic, and follow 

directions, but that was enough for millions of jobs paying a living wage. It is these 

jobs that are disappearing. In summary, our educational challenge today is that the 

education that was good enough to support the economy of the 1970s is not good 

enough to support the economy of today and tomorrow. The reason I emphasize that 

the challenge is new is that the Nation’s educational institutions are struggling to 

learn how to meet this challenge. It is difficult and uncertain work. 

II. DISTURBING TRENDS IN THE DISTRIBUTION OF EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENTS

AND SKILLS

1. Given the growing importance of cognitive skills and educational attainments 

to success in the labor market, it is important to keep track of the extent to which 

American children from different backgrounds are succeeding in school. Recent evidence shows disturbing trends. Sean Reardon (2011) has documented that the gaps 

between the average reading skills and mathematical skills of children from relatively affluent families and those from relatively low-income families have increased by one-third over the last three decades. The growth in the gap in mathematical skills is illustrated in Figure 3. 
30 

Given the importance of reading and mathematical skills for success in postsecondary education and training programs, one might expect that the growth in the 

income-related gaps in these skills would translate into a growth in income-related 

gaps in college graduation rates. Indeed, this is the case, as Martha Bailey and 

Susan Dynarski (2011) have documented. Figure 4 illustrates this pattern. Between 

the late 1970s and the mid-1990s, the college graduation rate of American youth 

from families in the top quarter of the income distribution increased by 21 percentage points, from 33 percent to 54 percent. During this period, the college graduation 

rate of American youth from families in the bottom quarter of the income distribution increased by only 4 percentage points, from 5 percent to 9 percent. 

2. In recent decades, the gap between the incomes of families at the bottom of 

the distribution and those at the top has increased markedly. Figure 5 illustrates 

this pattern. Notice that the average real income (that is, adjusted for inflation) of 

families at the 20th percentile of the income distribution in 2009 was slightly lower 
31 

than the average income for comparable families in 1979. In contrast, the average 

income of families at the 80th percentile of the income distribution was 30 percent 

higher in 2009 than the average income for comparable families in 1979. The 

growth in real income for families at the 95th percentile of the distribution was even 

greater—more than 40 percent. 

The increase in family-income inequality has contributed to the increase in 

income-related gaps in educational outcomes through two sets of mechanisms: growing differences in parental resources devoted to children and growing differences in 

the quality of the schools children attended. These patterns are documented in the 

chapters of the 2011 volume entitled Whither Opportunity? Growing Inequality, 

Schools, and Children’s Life Chances, edited by Greg Duncan and Richard Murnane. 

3. The increasing gap between the cognitive skills and educational attainments of 

children from families in the bottom quarter of the income distribution and those 

in the top quarter threatens a belief that Americans hold dear. This belief is that, 

while children may grow up in poverty, if they work hard, their children will not 

grow up poor. The mechanism through which this American dream has been realized for many generations of Americans has been access to a good education. During 

most of the 20th century, the majority of American children completed more education than their parents, and this provided them with access to better jobs and 

higher income. However, as Michael Hout and Alexander Janus (2011) have documented, this pattern no longer prevails. As illustrated in Figure 6, among men who 

turned 25 years of age after the mid-1980s, fewer than half completed more years 

of education than their fathers. Indeed, as the figure shows, more than 20 percent 

of men who turned 25 after 1990 completed fewer years of education than their fathers did. This is a sharp deviation from the pattern in previous generations. 
32 

The slowdown in the rate of increase of educational attainments of young Americans, especially those coming from low-income families, places in jeopardy upward 

socio-economic mobility in the United States. Indeed, a disturbing pattern that relatively few Americans are aware of is that the rate of intergenerational upward mobility in the United States is lower today than it is in the United Kingdom, Sweden, 

and Finland. This pattern is illustrated in Figure 7. 
33 

3See Dobbie and Fryer, 2011. 

4Weiland and Yoshikawa (2012). 

5See Bloom and Unterman (2012). 

6See Murnane (2008). 

7See Miller, Murnane, and Willett (2008). 

III. IMPROVING AMERICAN K–12 EDUCATION

As stated above, the country faces the enormous challenge of providing all American children with the skills needed to graduate from high school college- and career-ready. This means preparing them with the foundational skills they will need 

to excel at expert thinking and complex communication in their chosen field 

of work. How to meet this new challenge is a topic of considerable debate, especially 

whether schools serving high concentrations of children from low-income families 

can do the job alone. I make three points that I believe are critical to successful 

efforts to improve American K–12 education. 

1. Schools that are effective in educating disadvantaged children well do much 

more than provide good instruction during a normal 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. school day. 

They also monitor closely the progress of every child and provide extra instruction 

and learning opportunities late in the afternoon to remediate learning problems. 

Many of these schools also provide instruction and learning opportunities on Saturdays and during the summer months.3 Many also provide pre-school programs for 

3- and 4-year-olds to prepare children to enter kindergarten ready to learn.4 High 

schools that effectively serve disadvantaged students provide the learning opportunities in work places and in other non-school settings and the cultural experiences 

and tutoring that affluent parents provide to their teenagers.5 In other words, 

schools that serve large numbers of disadvantaged children and youth well play a 

much larger role in their lives than a 5- to 6-hour schedule of classes for 180 school 

days. 

2. Accountability and capacity building are essential complements, not substitutes.6 Incentives and the accountability system in which they are embedded are 

important. However, incentives by themselves will result in improved performance 

only if teachers, administrators, and students know how to do the things that the 

incentives reward. This is not the situation in the Nation’s schools today. Providing 

all students, including those from low-income families, with the skills to graduate 

from high school college- and career-ready is an unprecedented challenge for the Nation’s schools. Incentives and accountability alone will not be sufficient for the Nation’s educators to meet this challenge. 

Investing in capacity building, including high quality academic standards, curricula aligned with the standards, and professional development aimed at improving 

the quality and consistency of instruction, is important. However, historically the 

Nation has devoted considerable resources to the development of curriculum and to 

professional development that have not improved the quality and consistency of the 

instruction children receive. Well-designed accountability systems hold promise to 

increase the effectiveness of investments in capacity-building. Of course, designing 

accountability systems that provide the right incentives is extremely difficult. Designing and implementing strategies to increase the instructional capacity of the 

Nation’s schools is equally difficult. No government or private-sector organization 

designs effective accountability systems and capacity-building investments the first 

time. Consequently, States will need to redesign their educational accountability 

and capacity-building systems in the years ahead, and Federal legislation should encourage them to do so. In planning these redesigns, it is important to learn from 

the early efforts and to recognize that accountability and capacity building are essential complements. Pursuing one without the other will not produce better education for the Nation’s children. 

3. Increasingly, States and local school districts are using student test scores to 

evaluate teachers. Typically, they do so using statistical models called ‘‘value-added’’ 

models. Essentially, value-added models provide estimates of the average amount of 

academic progress, as measured by test scores, that students in particular classes 

made during a school year. This is important information, especially when the evidence shows that in 2 or more successive years, students who spent the school year 

in the classroom of a particular teacher made relatively little academic progress. 

However, it is important to keep in mind that there are several explanations for this 

pattern. One is that the teacher lacks the skills to teach well. A second is that the 

teacher was absent from school for a substantial period due to illness.7 A third is 

that there were students with severe emotional problems in the class who would 
34 

8See Carrell and Hoekstra (2010). 

9See Raudenbush, Jean, and Art (2011). 

have disrupted the instruction of any teacher.8 A fourth is that there was a great 

deal of mobility among students in the class, with many new students entering the 

class during the school year.9 There is strong causal evidence that each of these situations reduces student learning. 

That a group of students made little academic progress during a school year is 

a troubling problem. However, responding to this problem effectively requires an understanding of its cause. If the cause is poor teaching, then the response should 

focus on improving the teacher’s effectiveness and, if that does not work, dismissing 

the teacher. However, this response will not improve children’s education if the 

cause is one of the other possibilities. For that reason, it does not make sense to 

make decisions about which teachers to dismiss and which to reward with a salary 

bonus solely on the basis of the results of value-added models. Instead, it makes 

sense to use the results of these models to identify teachers whose students are 

making relatively great academic progress and those whose students are making 

relatively little progress. The next step is to use other methods, including classroom 

observation by well-trained coaches or supervisors, to figure out the cause of the 

atypical performance. Taking this step is critical to constructive use of the results 

of value-added studies. 

SUMMING UP

I conclude by reiterating the three central themes of my testimony. The first is 

that changes in the Nation’s economy have dramatically altered the demand for 

skills in the Nation’s workforce. These changes have resulted in unprecedented challenges for the Nation’s educational institutions. The second theme is that the gaps 

between the academic skills and educational attainments of Americans growing up 

in high-income families and those growing up in low-income families have increased 

substantially in recent decades. This growing inequality in educational outcomes 

threatens the Nation’s prosperity and also places in jeopardy the upward socioeconomic mobility of which Americans are so proud. The third theme is that meeting 

the challenge of preparing all students to be college- and career-ready cannot be met 

by pushing teachers to work harder. To meet this challenge, American schools, especially those serving high concentrations of disadvantaged children, need to work differently and to play a larger role in children’s lives than most play today. The policy 

challenge is to develop the knowledge, the capacity, and the accountability systems 

that will foster and support better schools for all American children. 

REFERENCES

Bailey, Martha J., and Susan M. Dynarski. 2011. Inequality in post-secondary education. In Whither opportunity: Growing inequality, schools, and children’s life 

chances., eds. Greg J. Duncan, Richard J. Murnane. New York: Russell Sage 

Foundation. 

Bloom, Howard S., and Rebecca Unterman. 2012. Sustained positive effects on graduation rates produced by New York City’s small public high schools of choice. New 

York City: MDRC Policy Brief. 

Carrell, Scott E., and Mark L. Hoekstra. 2010. Externalities in the classroom: How 

children exposed to domestic violence affect everyone’s kids. American Economic 

Journal: Applied Economics 2, (1) (January): 211–28. 

Dobbie, Will, and Roland G. Fryer Jr. 2011. Are high quality schools enough to close 

the achievement gap? evidence from a social experiment in Harlem. American 

Economic Journal. Applied Economics: 158–87. 

Duncan, Greg J., and Richard J. Murnane, eds. 2011. Whither opportunity? rising 

inequality, schools, and children’s life chances. New York: Russell Sage Foundation and Spencer Foundation. 

Hout, Michael, and Alexander Janus. 2011. Educational mobility in the United 

States since the 1930s. In Whither opportunity? rising inequality, schools, and 

children’s life chances., eds. Greg J. Duncan, Richard J. Murnane, 165–86. Russell 

Sage Foundation and the Spencer Foundation. 

Levy, Frank, and Richard J. Murnane. 2004. The new division of labor: How computers are creating the next labor market. Princeton, NJ.: Princeton University 

Press. 

Miller, Raegan T., Richard J. Murnane, and John B. Willett. 2008. Do teacher absences impact student achievement? longitudinal evidence from one urban school 

district. Educational Evaluation & Policy Analysis 30, (2) (06): 181–200. 
35 

Murnane, Richard J., and Frank Levy. 1996. Teaching the new basic skills. New 

York: Free Press. 

Raudenbush, Stephen W., Marshall Jean, and Emily Art. 2011. Year-by-year and cumulative impacts of attending a high-mobility elementary school on children’s 

mathematics achievement in Chicago, 1995–2005. In Whither opportunity? rising 

inequality, schools, and children’s life chances., eds. Greg J. Duncan, Richard J. 

Murnane, 359–76. Russell Sage Foundation and the Spencer Foundation. 

Reardon, Sean F. 2011. The widening academic achievement gap between the rich 

and the poor: New evidence and possible explanations. In Whither opportunity? 

rising inequality, schools, and children’s life chances., eds. Greg J. Duncan, Richard J. Murnane, 91–116. Russell Sage Foundation and the Spencer Foundation. 

Weiland, Christine, and Hirokazu Yoshikawa. 2012. Impacts of a pre-Kindergarten 

program on Children’s mathematics, language, literacy, executive function, and 

emotional skills. Cambridge: Harvard Graduate School of Education. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Murnane. All of these 

were very provocative statements. They get you thinking. Thank 

you very much. 

We’ll begin a round of 5-minute questions here. Boy, I don’t know 

where to start on some of this. I’ll start with Mr. Kolb first of all. 

For years, I’ve been waving this book around. My staff is getting 

sick of me waving this book around. I show it to people, and I tell 

the story that I took over the Appropriations Committee on Education back around 1989, I guess it was. I think it was during the 

waning days of the Reagan administration that the President had 

asked for a study to be done on what we needed in education for 

the future. 

And as my memory serves me, and I think documents show that 

it asked this Committee on Economic Development to do this because the President wanted to hear from the business community 

what was needed in education. I’ve always added as a paraphrase 

he didn’t want to hear from any of those pointy-headed intellectuals in universities. He wanted to hear from the business community. 

The Committee on Economic Development set up a committee to 

look at education. I will never forget when in 1990, I believe, or 

1991, Jim Renier, who was the president or CEO of Honeywell, a 

man I didn’t know, was the head of this group and asked to see 

me, made an appointment, came in, and delivered this book to me. 

And they had finished, I think—you can correct me if I’m wrong, 

Mr. Kolb. I think it was like maybe 3 years they had worked on 

this, 3 or 4 years they had worked on this, at least, anyway. 

And if you look at the board, some of the most distinguished economic and business leaders in America were on this committee. 

The book is called The Unfinished Agenda: A New Vision for Child 

Development and Education. And, basically, what they came up 

with—and, again, I’ll paraphrase a little bit here, they said that we 

must understand that education begins at birth, and the preparation for education begins before birth. 

This report was put out by distinguished business leaders of 

America—this is 1990. This is 22 years ago and the report said 

we’ve got to focus more on early childhood education. And they 

pointed out time and time again how kids, if they don’t get good 

education early on, then it just costs so much that maybe you never 

make it up later on. 

My question, basically, for all of you is should we be focused 

more—and I know we’re talking about higher education. We’re 

talking about common core. There’s other questions I have about 
36 

that—common core standards and such. But are we missing the 

boat on not focusing more on getting kids early in life—all these 

gaps, Dr. Murnane, that we’re talking about, the gaps in achievement—does that start early on, when kids of low income—people 

have low expectations of them? And I just read a statistic the other 

day about how many low-income kids today come from homes 

where one of the parents is either in or has been in prison. It’s 

alarmingly high. 

What kind of expectations do they have of them, and how do we 

make sure that we have good early learning programs? So I just 

kind of throw that out for your rumination. Just think about it, 

and if you have any thoughts on that, I’d be glad to entertain it 

from anyone here. 

Mr. Kolb, since I referenced your work and your committee. 

Mr. KOLB. Mr. Chairman, thank you. And if you need additional 

copies of—if it’s wearing out for you or your staff, we’ll be pleased 

to—— 

The CHAIRMAN. You know, I actually had to go to the library to 

get one, because I did run out. 

Mr. KOLB. We’ll get a copy for you, your staff, and all the members of the committee, as well as the—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think it’s as relevant today as it was 22 

years ago? 

Mr. KOLB. Probably more, and the reason I say that, Senator, is 

that in your opening remarks, you used the phrase, ‘‘investment in 

the next generation.’’ And we spend a lot of money on education in 

this country. But a lot of times, I don’t think we approach it the 

way a business person would, namely, as an investment with a certain end contemplated. 

If you look at how we treat our young people, how we invest in 

early education, again, we’re near the bottom of OECD countries. 

You look at a country like France, which spends a lot less than we 

do, both in the aggregate and per capita, and yet they have one of 

the best early education systems in the world with their Cre ́che 

system and their Ecole Maternelle system. We actually talk about 

that in a sequel to The Unfinished Agenda that we did 10 years 

ago. 

What we’ve tried to do at the Committee for Economic Development is to build on what Jim Renier did. I actually met Jim Renier 

when I was in government working in the White House. And then 

I went to United Way of America as general counsel, and Jim was 

on the board at United Way of America. And then I come to CED, 

and he’s on the board at CED, and I said, ‘‘Jim, one of us is a bad 

penny. We can’t get rid of each other.’’ 

He is an example of a business leader, a business statesman, 

who gets it. And he became turned on to the importance of investing in early education through his work at CED. And he went back 

to Honeywell, and he created a program called Success by Six, 

which he then took to United Way. I didn’t realize that he actually 

started this at CED until I came to CED. I’d heard a lot about it 

at United Way of America. 

But then it went on to become a program in over 350 cities 

around the country. And it was designed to get young people to 

school, ready to learn—exactly that goal that we had under Presi-
37 

dents H.W. Bush and Clinton that, of course, we missed and still 

continue to miss. 

So it’s a very important goal, and any business leader will tell 

you if you’ve got a problem, whether it’s in manufacturing or the 

service, you don’t fix it at the end. You fix it up front. You don’t 

keep looking to fix it recall after recall. You fix it up front. So I 

think, as a country, we need to do more in terms of how we invest 

in our young people, both nationally, federally, at the State level, 

and also to add a little bit more rigor to the entire enterprise, and 

that does include K–12. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Hanushek. 

Can I finish here? Thank you. 

Doctor. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. If I could just make a few quick comments, I 

think it’s extraordinarily important to improve our early childhood 

education. I think at the same time it’s worth recognizing that we 

already do invest a lot in early childhood education. It just hasn’t 

yielded the results that we might want, that a large portion of our 

disadvantaged youth have some sort of preschool education. It’s 

just not serving very well. 

But it particularly doesn’t serve them well when they go on into 

K to 12, because those that get ahead at the beginning lose it on 

bad K to 12 education, where we’re still spending $600 billion. So, 

yes, early childhood education is important, but that’s not going to 

solve our K to 12 problems. 

The CHAIRMAN. When I get another round, I’ll challenge you on 

that, because if they’re not coming equipped to learn by kindergarten, then they’re behind. 

Dr. Murnane. 

Mr. MURNANE. Could I just add something to that? I mean, you 

know, I think you need to think of early childhood education as a 

vitamin, not a vaccination. So you need the vitamin. You need kids 

to have a strong start. But it’s really not enough. And one way to 

think about the difficulty of getting incentives and capacity building right is if you’re a third grade teacher, and you’re worried 

about the scores of disadvantaged students on third grade tests, 

what you focus your instructional time on in literacy is phonics. 

Now, phonics are important, and they will get you a long way toward improving scores on third grade tests. But they won’t help 

when the nature of reading changes from learning to read to reading to learn, and you’re expected to make sense of science and social studies texts in upper elementary grades and middle school 

grades. So what you really need to do—yes, do some phonics—critically important, but you need to work on vocabulary conceptual understanding right from kindergarten up. 

So that’s a challenge, but for a second and third grade teacher, 

it doesn’t pay off in test scores then. But it pays off in test scores 

in sixth and eighth grades. So that’s the challenge in getting the 

incentive right so the whole school is aligned in preparing kids for 

these more complex literacy challenges as subjects change. 

The CHAIRMAN. Excuse me. Senator Enzi. 

Senator ENZI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll jump into that, too, 

because I recently got a report that Australia did on their early 
38 

childhood schools, and it was a very devastating report. It said that 

they were doing terrible. They were not focused. It had no tie-in 

with the later education. And the only high point in it for them was 

that they were doing far better than the United States. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. Mann, I was really excited to see that somebody from SAS 

was going to be testifying. I used to be in the shoe business, and 

SAS was San Antonio Shoes—probably no relationship at all. But 

I appreciate your comments about helping to get kids algebraready, the tremendous increase in performance that that caused, 

and that you’re sharing software with the schools for free. 

I think one of the things we’re failing to do in America is that 

we don’t get people focused on a job. We’re getting them focused 

on a free education and tests and going to school, but we’re not getting them focused on a job. So do you think that that software and 

the algebra that you’re doing gives them that kind of a focus? I 

mean, they’re taking a look at coming to work for your company, 

I assume. Is that correct? 

Ms. MANN. Thank you. The Algebra Readiness Initiative that you 

pointed out, I think, is a great example of looking at trends early 

on in a child’s education and seeing where things maybe are falling 

short and being able to influence that at that point in time to get 

kids who may be at risk on a better path to success. And through 

the use of our technology, we’ve been able to look at trends in 

childhood education that we can use the same principles that we 

use for our customers in business—we can use that to the education system, which I think has been very helpful, and the Algebra Readiness Initiative is a great example of success in that area. 

The other example that you pointed out—certainly, bringing kids 

very early on to SAS to look at how science and math is maybe 

being studied in the classroom and how you can apply that to real 

world examples—it sparks their interest. You see their eyes light 

up. It puts it into a whole new context. The other benefit is they 

get to see a corporate environment. They get to see what job potentials look like, what the environment can be if you do well in 

school. So there’s really multiple things that we’re achieving by engaging with education and students early on. 

Senator ENZI. Definitely on the right track. Hope we can get 

more companies to do that. 

Dr. Hanushek, I appreciated your comments about math being 

the main determinant. I’m a firm believer in that. In your testimony, you said that our education system needs a dramatic change 

if our country is to attain economic success, and I noticed you said 

that reducing class size and implementing the common core standards is just the beginning. 

Could you give some other examples of the kind of change we 

need to see if our education system is going to perform at the levels 

of the higher performing countries like Canada and Finland? 

Mr. HANUSHEK. The thing that I have focused on in my research 

and my understanding of schools is teacher quality and that that 

dominates almost everything in schools. Now, saying that teacher 

quality is important doesn’t tell you exactly what to do about getting better teacher quality. 
39 

To me, as an economist, the key is getting the incentives right 

for everybody in the system so that everybody is working in the 

right direction. Part of that is a controversial issue that we ought 

to evaluate our teachers on their effectiveness, and we ought to pay 

attention to those that are doing well and those that aren’t in serious ways, so rewarding those who do well and dismissing those 

that are not up to standards. 

Senator ENZI. I appreciate that. I’ll have some more detailed 

questions along that line. In fact, I have more questions for all of 

you. We never get the chance to ask them here, but they all become 

a part of the record if you’ll be so courteous as to answer them 

when we submit them. 

Senator ENZI. Mr. Kolb, I appreciate your comments about the 

Western Governors University and the success with the Stanford 

course on artificial intelligence. I wasn’t aware of that. I think that 

does show some of the hunger and thirst in other countries, and 

when I visit other countries, they’re always commenting about how 

they hope their students can come to the United States to attend 

college. So I’m a little disturbed now to find out that other countries are doing better and building better universities than we are. 

But I think the Western Governors University and some of their 

online courses are a way for us to excel in a new way and touch 

people that haven’t been able to go to school before. And maybe 

they’ll do it with a lot less money than my alma mater, George 

Washington University, with their $50,000 tuition, which I never 

would have been able to afford. So I do have some more detailed 

questions on that, but I’m going to skip to Dr. Murnane in my remaining 4 seconds. 

I’ll go just a little over as you did, Mr. Chairman. 

I appreciated your comments about the need for students to have 

expert thinking and complex communication skills. That’s what 

most other countries think we teach in our country. For decades, 

the Federal programs have been targeted on high poverty students 

and the schools that serve them. And yet your testimony shows 

that the gap between low- and high-income students in math has 

increased dramatically since 1978. 

What conclusion should we draw from that data that Federal 

programs haven’t been effective in meeting stated goals, that they 

haven’t been targeted enough, or is it something else? 

Mr. MURNANE. One thing is, I think, all parents do their best to 

take care of their children. Parents have observed that these returns to education have increased, so parents with resources have 

invested heavily in preparing their children to succeed. Tutors, 

summer learning opportunities—they’ve done a variety of things to 

help their kids prepare that the parents with low incomes cannot 

do. 

The other thing is, in terms of explaining this, is that we’ve seen 

increasing segregation by economic status, not race, by economic 

status in our schools. So low-income children are more likely to be 

in classrooms where other children are also from low incomes. And 

for a variety of reasons, that has negative effects on the learning. 

Among the reasons are they’re more likely to be children who have 

emotional problems which disrupt instruction. It’s harder to get 

skilled teachers to work in those schools. And, also, those students 
40 

tend to have high mobility rates out of the school, which has been 

shown to have a negative effect on instruction. 

So I think those are tough things to compensate with just additional funds. It doesn’t mean that funds don’t matter. But it does 

mean that they need to be used in very creative ways. I think the 

Senate version of the new ESEA bill provides opportunities to use 

those funds more effectively. 

Senator ENZI. Thank you. I will have more questions for everybody. 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator—in order, Senator Bingaman. 

Senator ENZI. I don’t know if he’s coming back or not. 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bingaman, Senator Franken, Senator 

Whitehouse. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR BINGAMAN

Senator BINGAMAN. Thank you very much. Thank you all for 

your testimony. 

Let me raise an issue. We’ve talked about how more early childhood education is important and how better teachers are important. And it’s always seemed to me that—my experience in going 

through school was that the more time you spent studying, the 

more you were likely to learn. We do not provide enough time, instructional time, in our schools for kids to be expected to learn 

what we think we’d like them to learn anymore. We provide a lot 

less instructional classroom time than most of these countries we’re 

comparing ourselves unfavorably with. 

And I know this is a difficult issue to address, because, of course, 

it costs money. You’ve got to pay teachers more if you’re going to 

make them teach additional weeks and additional months. It disrupts other things that we’ve built around the 180-day school year. 

But when we talk about how we need to make some major changes 

in the way we approach education, it seems to me one of the major 

changes we have to make is to recognize that, as a nation, we’ve 

got to move from a 180-day school year to maybe a 200-day school 

year, or maybe you just figure out how much instructional time 

there is and substantially increase that. 

But one way or another, we’ve got to give kids more opportunity 

to actually learn. And I think that also deals with this gap that Dr. 

Murnane was talking about between kids whose parents can get 

them tutoring in the afternoons and get them in special programs 

in the summers and all that kind of stuff, and the kids who don’t 

have those opportunities. If everybody had a greater opportunity to 

learn and more hours of instruction, then that gap would close to 

some extent—at least, it seems to me. 

Dr. Murnane, is this totally wrong, or do you think there’s an 

element of truth in it, or what’s your thinking? 

Mr. MURNANE. I think more instructional time is a necessary but 

not sufficient condition. And I think the evidence for this comes 

from particularly charter schools that have been effective in serving high concentrations of poor kids. They do have a longer school 

day. They often start at 7:30 with breakfast and they end at 5:30. 

They often have Saturday school. They have a longer school year. 

But, importantly, they have found ways to track the assessment 

of every child very frequently and figure out where children are 
41 

lacking and then have used this longer instructional time in a very 

strategic way to deal with those deficiencies before they become a 

problem. I think a longer instructional period is necessary, but that 

alone won’t do the job unless that time is used very effectively, and 

that really requires some learning how to do it, but it also requires 

strong incentives to use it effectively. 

Senator BINGAMAN. Mr. Kolb. 

Mr. KOLB. Senator, I’d like to comment, because you raise a very 

important point. I would use the phrase, time on task. Your question reminded me of a report that I read about 20 years ago. I 

think it was produced by the National Governors Association. I’m 

going to paraphrase what’s in my memory here. But it said that 

the typical fifth grader—and this was pre-Internet, pre-computer— 

the typical fifth grader at home every day spent 130 minutes 

watching television and 5 minutes reading. 

Now, I would submit to you that whatever you think about educational spending—increase it, decrease it, keep it level—if we can, 

as a country, figure out a way to flip those numbers, we would get 

better performance. It’s a time on task. Our kids want to work 

smart, but not always work hard. 

I would just add one other issue. It hasn’t come up here, but it’s 

something I’m a firm believer in. We short-change our young people in another area of education, on international studies and foreign languages. Now, why do I mention that? Because if you want 

to learn a foreign language, you don’t take a pill today and wake 

up speaking Farsi or Mandarin tomorrow. You have to learn, listen, and practice and listen and practice. 

Something like a foreign language, in my view, would actually 

change the habits of mind of a number of our young people and reinforce the notion that it’s not only a Federal or State investment 

of money in your education. It’s also important to invest your time 

both inside the classroom and outside the classroom. 

We talk about wanting our young people to be lifelong learners. 

I know—I was fortunate. I started learning French at the age of 

seven, OK, and it’s stayed with me now for over a half a century. 

And it has affected virtually everything I’ve done in my personal 

life and my professional life. 

I know this is something which is often short-changed, but to go 

back to Chairman Harkin’s opening comment, how we invest in our 

next generation is important. Investing in foreign languages and 

international studies will help reinforce that investment mentality 

which our young people need in addition to the school system and 

our parents. So I really appreciate you raising that point. 

Senator BINGAMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you want to followup on that? You’ve got 

more time. 

Senator BINGAMAN. I don’t. I think any question you ask, I’m 

sure would be very insightful. So I think I’ll defer to you, Senator 

Franken. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR FRANKEN

Senator FRANKEN. Thank you for your confidence. Boy, I could be 

here all day. Thank you for your testimony. And I have some pre-
42 

pared questions about the cost of post-secondary education I want 

to talk to Mr. Kolb about. But I’ve got—there’s so much here. 

Mr. Hanushek, I can’t agree with you more that if we want to 

grow our economy, we need to invest in our education. On the other 

hand, Mr. Kolb was talking about the French educational system 

and spending less and yet getting better results. And you were 

talking about early childhood education and how effective that is 

in France. Mr. Hanushek, you talked about how many of our lowincome kids have preschool education. 

I will say that the evidence is that early childhood education is 

necessary but not sufficient, and we do lose some of the effect in 

K through 12 sometimes. But the evidence is that for high-quality 

early childhood education we get incredible benefits for every dollar 

invested. Art Rolnick from Minnesota has done that study, and we 

had him testify before this committee. 

There are a lot of kids who qualify for Head Start who don’t get 

it, and we need to make sure that they get it. And I like the emphasis by this Administration on the Race to the Top grants for 

early childhood, and we have a Promise Neighborhood in the north 

side in Minnesota. We also have a Race to the Top Early Learning 

grant in Minnesota. I was so impressed, by the way, with the 

Promise Neighborhood proposal that the north side achievement 

zone put together, and it had everything that everybody always 

talks about, including parental involvement, including—and getting 

started, as The Unfinished Agenda says, before birth, preparing for 

birth, because learning starts at birth. 

On the one hand, I want to throw every resource we can at this. 

But we’ve got to do it smartly. For example, STEM is so important. 

I’ve been going around my State talking about STEM. The 20 biggest growing industries in my State—16 of them require STEM 

skills. You look at the United States on these charts that Mr. 

Hanushek put together and it’s disgraceful. 

I don’t know where to begin, as you can tell. But I guess where 

I would begin is—we did a bill. We marked a bill up, which I think 

was a good bill, for reforming ESEA, for reauthorization of ESEA. 

One of the things that we talked about today was about tracking 

each kid, a tracking assessment of every child—one of the things 

we did in this bill was allow computer adaptive tests. 

I want to ask the panel to talk about how important it is—how 

wrong-headed it was to have No Child Left Behind testing be this 

one test at the end of April, where you get the results at the end 

of June. The kids are gone. In Minnesota, the teachers and principals call them autopsies—how important it is to assess the kids 

throughout the school year and to measure the growth of every 

child and not have an arbitrary bar of proficiency. You should not 

only measure the percentage of kids who meet that proficiency because the teachers ignore the kids at the top and the kids at the 

bottom. Can anyone speak to that? 

Mr. Hanushek. I only have 9 seconds left, so you’ve got my time. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. I will speak quickly. I think that you’re raising 

some very important issues. Let me say at the outset that No Child 

Left Behind, in my opinion, has some flaws, but it has dramatically 

changed the way we look at education. It has been an extraor-
43 

dinarily positive impact, and as flawed as it is, it has led to improvements in our schools. 

One of the improvements is that we can now trace students and 

find out who is actually learning and who isn’t, and we can relate 

that to the programs and the teachers that they have. 

Senator FRANKEN. I’m sorry to interrupt. But can we, really? I 

mean, are we really doing that? Because what I hear from teachers 

and principals is that by the time they get the results, the kids are 

out of school, and that the teachers have no way of keeping track 

of the kids that they’re actually teaching or using the test to inform 

their instruction. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. Senator, you’re absolutely correct that we can 

think of testing in two different ways. One is in a formative way, 

where we assess students throughout the year, provide ready feedback, try to get better instruction to the individual kids. That’s extraordinarily important, and we’re starting to understand how to 

do that. We don’t completely understand that. 

The second way of using testing is in an accountability sense, in 

a summative way, and I think that that is also important. That 

was what No Child Left Behind emphasized—it, as I say, made a 

number of mistakes, one of which is not following the learning of 

individual kids. A second one is not using adaptive testing and providing immediate answers so we can do all of that. 

But having that accountability system is extraordinarily important. And, in my opinion, if the Congress could find a way to reauthorize ESEA and improve some of the flaws but to continue that, 

it would be a very big help in part of the picture of how to improve 

our schools. 

Senator FRANKEN. Dr. Murnane and Ms. Mann. 

Mr. MURNANE. I would support Eric Hanushek in the extraordinary value of No Child Left Behind as a first step in having a 

set of accountability systems in 50 States that really does pay attention to the achievement of every child. But, again, this is new 

work, and we need to keep working on this. 

One kind of concrete example in the science area, Senator 

Franken—science instruction provides a fabulous forum to teach 

these expert thinking and complex communication skills. Hands-on 

science, working in teams to develop hypotheses, figuring out how 

to test them—you collect data, you try and figure out what it 

means, and you try and interpret it and convey it to other people. 

But we still need to make progress on developing science assessments that provide the right incentives for science teachers to 

teach science in that way, as opposed to asking kids to memorize 

the parts of flowers, which doesn’t make any sense when that information is available on the Web in 4 or 5 seconds. 

So I think incentives are critically important, but we need to get 

them right so we attract the best folks into science teaching and 

they have the incentive to actually teach these skills that really 

will build most students’ competence and interest in these STEM 

areas. And I think we’ve got a ways to go to accomplish that. 

Senator FRANKEN. Amen. And I’m sorry, Mr. Chairman, but it 

seems like Mr. Kolb is bursting. 

Mr. KOLB. Maybe I shouldn’t do—— 

Senator FRANKEN. In French, please. 
44 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. KOLB. Here’s my point. I’m a recovering lawyer, not a psychometrician. So I’m going to be agnostic on exactly how you do the 

testing. But let me tell you what really worries me about this. In 

December 2010, when that PISA study came out from the OECD 

where we’re doing so badly, about a week after that—you probably 

saw this—the Education Trust here in Washington put out a report 

that said that almost 25 percent of the high school graduates—I 

wasn’t sure I heard it right on the evening news, so I went back 

and had one of our research people check it. Almost 25 percent of 

the high school graduates who took the Army entrance exam 

flunked it, with tough questions like two plus X equals four, solve 

for X. 

How can that happen in America? We keep kicking the can down 

the road. How can somebody get all the way through high school, 

get a certificate, which presumably says they have a certain mastery of knowledge—and you can’t do second or third grade math? 

So I don’t personally care how you do the testing. I think we need 

more rigor along the way in our system coupled with the appropriate form of assessment. 

But we are failing our young people if we are certifying them— 

this, by the way, wouldn’t happen in France. I asked a French 

friend of mine about the baccalaureate in France. I said, ‘‘Is there 

anyone in the entire country of France who has passed the baccalaureate who couldn’t answer the question two plus X equals four?’’ 

And I got laughter as a response. Of course not. But it happens 

here. 

Senator FRANKEN. Thank you. And I’m sorry to run over my 

time, Mr. Chairman. The answer, by the way, is two. 

[Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. And here you’ve beat me. I have my computer 

working on it right now. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator FRANKEN. You know you had your staff working on it. 

The CHAIRMAN. That’s my computer. 

[Laughter.] 

I’d like to open it up for general discussion here, but I wanted 

to connect two people or two things, Dr. Murnane and Ms. Mann. 

Mr. Murnane, you said, ‘‘don’t need 4-year degree for all; there 

are many good jobs that don’t require’’—you had that in your written testimony. Also here, if I can find it again, where I read it 

here—you said in the past, workers needed to be able to read and 

do simple arithmetic, follow directions, and that was enough to get 

a living wage. But those jobs are disappearing, and they need more 

now to enter the middle class than just what we needed in the 

past. 

Ms. Mann, you talked about what your company had developed 

in productive partnerships with local high schools, where you made 

it clear how the skills they learn in the classroom translate into the 

workforce. I’d like to put these two together. 

I just visited a community college in Iowa on Monday, and I met 

a young man there, 37 years old. He just had a high school education. He was now being retrained in a 2-year program in computer-assisted cutting of metals and materials. He had to learn 
45 

pretty intricate math to be able to program the computers to run 

the equipment. 

What I learned there was a lot of the local businesses had this 

equipment that cost a lot of money. But local businesses had 

partnered with the community college to buy the equipment to put 

it in there to train new workers. The community college needed 

that kind of modern equipment in order to give instructions. 

Back to you, Ms. Mann. If businesses in these different sectors, 

if they know the skills they need, how do we get more of them 

working with high schools? How do we get them talking to students 

and saying, ‘‘There are good jobs out there if you do this, and we 

will assist you in the schools.’’? Evidently, that’s the kind of partnership you have with your high schools. 

I want to get these two ideas together because I think there’s 

something there that maybe we’re not looking at. And in the bill 

that we worked on, on the reauthorization of ESEA, we called it 

college- and career-ready, not necessarily college, but also maybe 

career-ready. 

So could you expand on that a little bit, about what you’re doing 

in your partnerships with your schools? 

Ms. MANN. Sure. And I think there are a lot of organizations like 

SAS that do have education as their philanthropic focus as we do 

and are trying to partner with the schools in their community. I 

think we just need to expand it and work collaboratively to do that. 

But there are several initiatives. Over 10 years ago, SAS started 

working with a group called the High Five that was the five school 

districts in our area to partner with the educators and the business 

community to explore this topic, to look at what we could do together to improve the issues. The Algebra Readiness Project was 

part of that. Certainly, SAS played a large role in that because the 

assessment that was done—and this goes back to a comment which 

was made earlier about some of the assessments are, unfortunately, catching the trends too late, that the students are already 

failing. 

This particular solution looked at 30 years of educational research to try to predict what the issues were going to be so that 

we could step in and make progress before the issues became more 

prevalent. And so I think there’s lots of things that organizations 

can do, partnering with education, and also looking at how the use 

of technology can help solve some of these very difficult challenges 

in education. We could do that a little bit better, I believe. 

The CHAIRMAN. Could you expand a little bit on that, Dr. 

Murnane? 

Mr. MURNANE. Yes. I think if we look at where the really strong 

evidence is—high schools that are serving high concentrations of 

low-income children well—there are two very well-done evaluations 

using these randomized controls, which is kind of the gold standard. One is career academies that have been shown to, very interestingly, not to improve kids’ test scores, but have led to improving 

how much they’ve earned 8 years after high school by 11 percent, 

by 18 percent for males. And these are almost all low-income males 

of color. 

The followup work has shown that they did learn these cognitive 

skills—absolutely critical, as Rick Hanushek has said. But they 
46 

also had these opportunities to have internships and jobs in middle 

class workplaces, where they learned a lot of the social skills and 

communication skills that were absolutely central to helping them 

to find jobs and to move from one job to another. 

The small schools of choice in New York City also have strong 

partnerships with employers who provide these kinds of opportunities that both help the kids to learn these other kinds of skills and 

also help them to see that the cognitive skills are actually worthwhile, because for a lot of very poor kids who don’t know anybody 

who has that kind of a job, they seem totally unconnected to what 

they think as possible jobs. So I think these are promising opportunities. 

The CHAIRMAN. Any others? I just picked on these two, but Dr. 

Hanushek or Mr. Kolb, do you have any thought? Again, the thrust 

of my question is getting the business community and those that 

know what kind of jobs they need out there, interacting more with 

the high schools to let students know that there are other options 

for them. 

Mr. KOLB. Mr. Chairman, we were just in Milwaukee, WI, a couple of weeks ago doing a forum, actually, on post-secondary education. We did this at the headquarters of Manpower, which, as 

you know, is a global company. But what we heard were the examples like Ms. Mann talked about, more in the post-secondary area 

than in the high school. But I think it’s the same principle. 

You had companies like Johnson Controls, and I think there was 

an investment firm, Baird, which actually had partnered with 2- 

year and 4-year institutions to shape the curriculum that these 

companies actually needed to make sure that the education institutions provided the wherewithal for the students. And, of course, 

guess what? There were jobs at the end. I mean, the companies 

weren’t doing this just because it was a charitable endeavor. It was 

a real win-win situation for everyone. 

I think what we hope to do at CED is to look for other examples 

around the country and get those best practices out. But they are 

happening, and I think they can also happen at the K–12 level as 

well, because not everyone is going on to 4-year. Some may go on 

to 2-year or proprietary schools. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Hanushek. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. Just one quick thought. I wanted to reemphasize 

what Dr. Murnane said, and that is providing incentives and motivation for students is extraordinarily important. We know that. 

Most of our public policy doesn’t address that, because we don’t 

know quite how to intervene with students and with families to get 

them more motivated. But anything we can do along the lines that 

he suggested is extraordinarily important, because the key element 

of all learning is the student, him or herself. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you all very much. 

Senator Enzi. 

Senator ENZI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Kolb, I didn’t get to ask you a question before, and I know 

that your members have an interest in education, and they need 

an educated and skilled workforce. What knowledge and skills gaps 

are your members currently experiencing? Or are they able to find 

the talent that they need? 
47 

Mr. KOLB. If you were to talk with Jeff Joerres, the global CEO 

of Manpower Group or with Carl Camden from Kelly Services— 

and, by the way, a lot of people think of these firms as providing 

entry-level skill temporary jobs. People don’t realize that both of 

these companies are global. But a lot of their business is placing 

people with Ph.D.s. So they see what’s happening in this country 

and around the world. 

I think both of those CEOs would tell you they have jobs that 

can’t be filled. Some of them are because of STEM. A good number 

of them are STEM-related, and some of these jobs are paying in six 

figures. They’re not just entry level temp positions. 

I think the answer to the question, Senator Enzi, is going to vary 

around the country. But if you were just to focus—putting this 

question to Jeff Joerres and Carl Camden at Manpower and Kelly 

Services, I think, would actually provide more detail. I’ll be glad to 

do that and go back to both of those CEOs and get some additional 

detail. But in talking with them as recently as 2 weeks ago, it’s a 

problem. 

Senator ENZI. I’d appreciate that. Those two companies probably 

have as varied a workforce as there is anywhere in the world, and 

they’re providing a lot of different jobs. So, yes, I’d appreciate it if 

you’d do that. 

Dr. Hanushek, what types of skills are needed to achieve the economic growth that you project? Simply saying that graduation 

rates and higher academic achievement is a bit simplistic. And 

aren’t the higher skilled fields, such as computer science, engineering, mathematics—I know you’ve emphasized mathematics, and I 

appreciate that. Aren’t they essential to our success? 

Mr. HANUSHEK. Senator, I think they are. What I’ve emphasized 

is not the particular jobs, but the kinds of skills that lead into the 

various jobs. There was some astounding statistic about how many 

jobs today didn’t exist 10 years ago. And so to think that we’re 

going to aim for particular jobs is a little bit difficult. But we know 

the skills that are important. They’re the cognitive skills that—everybody has said in one way or another here that developing high 

levels of cognitive skills are extraordinarily important. 

Can the industries fill the jobs. I live in the middle of Silicon Valley and hear all of the firms there are both screaming about how 

they have jobs but they can’t find the people, and, second, almost 

none of these firms would ever go to California schools or graduates of California schools to fill them. California schools are competing with Portugal and Greece internationally. They want to import people, which gets us into this other third-rail issue of immigration policy. But they’re trying desperately to find people that 

are well-trained, and they’re going often overseas to get these people. 

Senator ENZI. And you emphasized teacher incentives, but I’m 

still trying to figure out some student incentives. I went to India 

and visited some of the people involved in education over there, 

wondering why they do so much better than we do. And I was kind 

of appalled at the things that I found out. The No. 1 thing they 

said was they didn’t have any professional teams, so most of the 

students weren’t trying to dribble a basketball or throw a football 
48 

or something so they could get one of those multimillion dollar contracts. 

But the more disturbing thing was that they kick a bunch of kids 

out of school at fourth grade and again at sixth grade, and they 

only let 7 percent of the people go on to college, and that provides 

a competitive atmosphere that stimulates their kids. And, of 

course, we’re not going to do that in the United States, where free 

education is—Dr. Murnane, did you—— 

Mr. MURNANE. Could I comment, Senator Enzi, on this question 

about skills, perhaps with a homely example. When you look for a 

staff, I’m sure you have applicants, all of whom do fabulously on 

cognitive tests. They all have 700 SATs. So the challenge is not to 

find those skills. So you clearly want that. You want people who 

have strong cognitive skills. But you want more than that, I presume. You want people who can get things done, who, when you 

ask them to do something that’s unexpected, they’ll say, ‘‘Ah, here’s 

a new challenge,’’ who will find colleagues to work with and figure 

out a plan to get that done. 

I think all employers want this. They want the strong cognitive 

skills, but they want these other kinds of skills, a sense of liking 

new challenges, liking initiatives, recognizing they’re going to need 

other folks to work with. So the question would be, thinking carefully, are we giving the right incentives to not only be sure that our 

instruction in schools teaches the kinds of things you can measure 

on the SAT, but also measures these other things that are critically 

important in our economy. 

Senator ENZI. You’re absolutely right, and you mentioned that in 

your testimony along with good communication skills. That’s another thing that we kind of check our staff out for and are pleased 

when we find that. 

Of course, at one of the most delightful hearings that I had—we 

had a lady testify—she was about four-foot-eight and AfricanAmerican, and she had been made the principal of a high school 

in Tennessee. And they had multiple degrees there or certificates 

for graduation, and she did away with those, because she said 

every kid can learn. 

What she instituted were the academies that have been mentioned a couple of times before, and she had a health academy and 

a building academy and several others. Her big joy was to find that 

some kids that thought that they could be a carpenter found out 

they could be an architect. But everything was focused toward getting a job, as Ms. Mann was mentioning earlier—a specific area of 

work—and then they were able to increase their horizons from 

there. 

I think one of our big problems is getting the kids interested in 

education. Incidentally, she got promoted to superintendent because she did such a good job with the high school. And so her 

challenge was how to stimulate the kids in grade school. What she 

did was provide them with a list of prerequisites to get into the 

academy of their choice when they got to high school. 

All of the prerequisites were the same, but they were focused toward that particular industry. She also said that every kid in high 

school learned exactly the same thing. They just learned it from 

the focus of what they were doing. 
49 

Again, I have used up my time, and I appreciate your answers. 

And I do have some much more specific things that I’ll be asking 

if you’d answer that later. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Enzi. 

Senator Franken. 

Senator FRANKEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just got from my 

staff a statistic on Head Start for our conversation earlier. Fifty 

percent of children eligible for Head Start are not served by current 

funding. I think that is something—if we really, really are listening 

to the conclusions from The Unfinished Agenda, I think everyone 

here would agree that that’s kind of a travesty. 

I wanted to get into affordability of post-secondary education, but 

I want to follow on some of the things that both the Chairman and 

the Ranking Member were talking about. 

Mr. Murnane, you were talking about what skills an employer 

wants. I ask this every time I go around Minnesota and talk to employers, and they always want critical thinking, creativity, teamwork. Those are the three things I hear about the most. Of course, 

they need the cognitive abilities, and they need to read and do 

math and those kinds of things. 

I think that speaks to how we shape our tests, the assessments 

that we’re doing on the kids. If you are emphasizing the knowledge 

of discreet little skills, which I think we’re going to way too high 

a degree, you’re doing two things. One, you’re measuring kind of 

the wrong thing. I think the two consortia that design these tests 

are trying to work critical thinking into it. 

But when you do that, teachers then feel compelled to teach 

these discreet little skills, and that’s really boring. And it’s not just 

boring for the kids. It’s boring for the teachers. So you’re basically 

driving good teachers out of the profession in some cases. I think 

it’s doing a disservice in terms of how we’re educating our kids and 

what we are measuring. 

I also want to talk about this workforce—we need to reauthorize 

the Workforce Investment Act. We just need to do it. We had a 

hearing here with four workforce boards from across the country 

who had done extraordinarily great jobs, and we had this like a 

month ago or something. What it really required in each case was 

some leadership. It was pretty simple. There was nothing, necessarily, that we could do other than provide some structure and 

funding. 

But it was somebody from the workforce board or two or three 

people from the workforce board. It was people from industry, 

whether the industry was manufacturing—in many cases, it was— 

or whether it was healthcare, and it was the 2-year colleges, the 

technical schools. And there’s a technical school in Minnesota—Alexandria Community and Technical College ranked eighth in the 

country as a 2-year school—that does a wonderful job in Alexandria, MN, which is sort of the Silicon Valley of food packaging machines. 

But what they do is they reach down into the high school, and 

they have a camp, a summer camp, that teaches industrial arts, 

and they recruit from their high school. And I remember when 

Minnesota had like a 7.7 percent unemployment rate across the 
50 

State, Douglas County had like 4.6 percent, and it was because of 

this. And the skills gap is there, and if we could close that gap, millions and millions of people could be working today, now. 

Mr. Kolb, I know that there’s an upcoming report from the Committee for Economic Development that will look at ways to drive 

reforms across the post-secondary sector. Can you preview some of 

those reforms, and especially in relation to the ability of 2-year 

schools to provide the kind of skills and do them in the kind of 

ways—because Mr. Hanushek is right. Jobs are going to change. 

Jobs are just going to change. The nature of work is so different 

now than it used to be. 

And so you can’t prepare someone for a job for 20 years from now 

except to give them the kind of cognitive skills and the creative 

thinking and the critical thinking. So can you highlight something 

from the upcoming report that speaks to this? 

Mr. KOLB. Sure. I’d be pleased to. First of all, Senator Franken, 

we’re going to focus on what are called broad access institutions, 

not the elite research institutions. That’s not where most Americans are going to go for post-secondary education. It’s the State 4- 

year, 2-year community colleges and also the post-secondary sector. 

We think that the business community should be involved with 

State officials and that could involve workforce groups like we saw 

in New Orleans. I was in New Orleans on Monday and Tuesday. 

They have a similar group that is thinking along exactly these 

lines. But we want business to work with State officials to help set 

very explicit tangible goals for awarding post-secondary degrees 

and certificates. We’ve given a couple of examples of that this 

morning, but it needs to be magnified tremendously, and the more 

you do that, the more I think you’ll have examples of those jobs 

being filled with people who have the necessary degrees. 

We think that business has a role in helping States in strategic 

financial resource allocation. How is the money being spent? Is the 

money being aligned with goals that relate to productivity efficiency? I actually think the business model of post-secondary education is going to be up-ended. And business leaders, more so than 

educators can deal with that type of change, and we’ve seen that 

in a number of areas. They’re used to it. They’ve been through it 

themselves over the last 20 years, so they can be an ally of the 

State institutions. 

Business can help set annual indicators and metrics and work in 

partnership with the State 2-year and 4-year institutions. They can 

conduct policy audits. We’re going to recommend annual statewide 

education summits that would bring together business and the 

post-secondary institution to focus on goals. 

Let me just conclude with one other point. It hasn’t come up this 

morning, but when I talk about post-secondary education and the 

importance of the workforce, it’s also important to approach these 

issues from the perspective not just of work, but also democracy. 

If we are to have a vibrant democracy, we need educated citizens, 

because democracy is all about making choices. 

So a lot of people say, ‘‘Oh, well, you’re just about trying to 

produce more drones for the business sector.’’ No. It is important 

that we have talented, qualified, certified people to get jobs. But it’s 
51 

not just about jobs. It’s about the health and vitality of our democracy. 

Senator FRANKEN. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Franken. 

Again, let me address something—Dr. Hanushek and Ms. Mann, 

I want to involve both of you in this. It’s perhaps a little bit narrower, and it has something to do with what we have been discussing a lot in our committee and involved in our ESEA work. 

Ms. Mann, you expressed support for the Common Core State 

Standards initiative. 

Dr. Hanushek, you said in your testimony I read last night, 

‘‘My message is simple. The gains from improving our 

schools—or the costs of not doing so—are enormous. They are 

large enough that we should be willing to consider major alterations in policies.’’ I’m going to set that aside. You say that, 

‘‘We know that changing things around the margin—like moving to smaller class sizes’’ or master’s degrees ‘‘or introducing 

the common core curriculum—have little hope of redressing the 

problems.’’ 

I don’t mean to have you two debate this, but I’m trying to figure 

out exactly what you meant by that, Dr. Hanushek. 

I want to know why you feel that the Common Core State Standards initiative is a pathway that we ought to pursue. 

Dr. Hanushek. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. I’m happy to start. It’s not that I’m against 

standards. I am for standards. But when I look around the United 

States today, there are widely different standards, learning standards, across the 50 States—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Right. 

Mr. HANUSHEK [continuing]. Some of which are by most ranking 

systems more advanced than the common core and many of which 

are not up to the level of the common core. If I simply correlate 

the standards, the rigor of the standards, with the performance of 

students, I get a negative correlation. 

The CHAIRMAN. Say that one more time for me so I can understand. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. There are rankings of the standards in the 50 

States today. If I take those rankings, which are often on an A 

through F basis by a couple of different rating agencies, and correlate those with NAEP performance on the test that relates to the 

standards that are being used, they are negatively correlated. The 

States with the highest standards, in fact, tend to have somewhat 

lower NAEP performance of their students than those with high. 

Now, that’s not an argument necessarily against standards, per 

se, but it does say that there’s a lot more to actually getting students to learn what is included in the standards and that is where 

I would put my emphasis. I view that the debates over common 

core, which seem to be heating up, as I see them, are a bit of a 

distraction to me, because whether we get them or not is not going 

to ensure that any student in any State actually learns them. 

The CHAIRMAN. It was my idea that the common core standards 

was not the top. It was sort of the common core—other States can 

go above that. But at least we’ve got a common core that no State 
52 

goes below. That’s sort of what, as I understand, what the common 

core movement was about. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. I think it is trying to establish a floor. There are 

some debates about whether States such as Massachusetts and 

California that emphasize eighth grade algebra, for example, can 

fit them in readily into the common core. These are details that are 

really inside baseball. I’m just suggesting that moving to those 

standards is not going to solve the problem that California, with 

its A-rated standards by most metrics, is performing at the level 

of Portugal and Greece. 

The CHAIRMAN. OK. I get that. I get that. 

Ms. Mann, you emphasized in your statement the usefulness, the 

necessity of common core standards. 

Ms. MANN. Yes, and I think the point there is that we support 

many of the initiatives that are being looked at right now, that are 

being delivered on right now. I don’t know that I disagree with 

what Dr. Hanushek is saying. That is not going to be what changes 

the situation. 

But it’s certainly a good starting place that we all have standards with which we will not allow our students to drop below. And 

that was just suggesting support for that initiative, not, again, to 

say that that was going to be the thing that was going to have the 

biggest influence. I think all the discussions that we’ve had today— 

it requires a combination of all those things—investment, the quality of our teachers, and the partnership with businesses and education are very critical as well. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Murnane, did you want to comment? 

Mr. HANUSHEK. Could I just add one note to this—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Sure. 

Mr. HANUSHEK [continuing]. And link it back to what Senator 

Franken said? One of the big advantages of the common core 

standards may be to drive the development of better assessments, 

which I think has been one of the problems since NCLB came out. 

I expected the assessments to get better as the tests were made 

available and people saw the scores and so on, and they, frankly, 

didn’t. And so the common core may, in fact, drive better assessments, which has considerable value in our setting up the right incentives. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Murnane, I know you—— 

Mr. MURNANE. That was half of what I wanted to say. The other 

half is—what I think can make a difference is—if you look at countries that do very well on these tests that Dr. Hanushek has described, they almost all have national standards and many have 

national curricula. Now, I understand that education is the obligation of States in the United States. Dr. Hanushek also spoke about 

the importance of having more effective teachers, and I completely 

concur. Well, how do we get there? 

One thing is pre-service education of teachers isn’t very good. I 

think the reason is that in the United States, if you are a university professor trying to teach aspiring teachers how to do mathematics, you can’t focus on ‘‘This is what the mathematics is going 

to look like that you’re going to be asked to teach,’’ which is very 

different than a case in Singapore. You could say, 
53 

‘‘Well, you may be asked to teach a very traditional curriculum. You may be asked to teach a very constructivist curriculum. So we can’t specify this.’’ 

That is an enormous hindrance to preparing teachers. 

If we had greater clarity on what is important for children to 

learn and how we’re going to measure these things, I think it 

would go a long way toward improving our education and professional development for teachers, if done very well. And that, of 

course, is the major proviso. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Senator Franken, we’ll bounce back to you. 

Senator FRANKEN. First of all, I would love to see this NAEP— 

the correspondence or the negative correlation, because I know 

Minnesota has pretty high standards and does very well, and I 

know Massachusetts has very high standards and does very well. 

I remember Tennessee was very high in the percentage of kids who 

met proficiency in math, but then on the NAEP test was right at 

the bottom. 

That hasn’t been the experience that I’ve seen. But I’m sure—I’d 

just hope we could see that. 

Also, when you compare the—say California is comparable to the 

Portuguese and the Greeks, I would think the Greeks, especially in 

geometry, would be great. 

[Laughter.] 

But maybe I’m wrong. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. You may be surprised. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator FRANKEN. OK. Let me just ask on postsecondary—again, 

you were talking, Mr. Kolb, about involving business, and I can’t 

agree more. I mean, this is one of the things that I see in Minnesota that was at Hennepin Technical College. Hennepin County 

is the county that Minneapolis is in, but it’s the biggest county in 

Minnesota and involves a lot of suburban schools, too. 

Basically, what happened was the manufacturers just said, ‘‘This 

is what we need,’’ and they designed a curriculum. And Hennepin 

Technical College did the curriculum, and it was called M-Powered. 

They’ve graduated about 300 students thus far, and 93 percent of 

them have permanent jobs. 

Ms. Mann, I just saw your hand go up. That sounds like you 

want to respond. 

Ms. MANN. I wanted to give an example that SAS has been involved with that I think has had a similar success. We worked with 

North Carolina State University to implement an Institute for Advanced Analytics. So it’s a master’s program focused on analytics. 

And we’re in our maybe fourth year now, and the graduates from 

this program all have received job offers, and the average starting 

salary is over $80,000 a year. So this is another good example that 

we’ve seen by partnering with universities to help them build out 

the curriculum that we think is important. 

Senator FRANKEN. Mr. Kolb, I want to ask you again about the 

Committee for Economic Development’s report and what role business can play in working to address college costs, in terms of their 

business expertise, because a lot of businesses, you know, have to 

adapt all the time. As Congress examines these proposals and 
54 

works to address college costs, from the business perspective, what 

are the most important items to hold colleges accountable for, and 

how can business help our colleges and universities and 2-year institutions? 

Mr. KOLB. Senator Franken, I think the short answer is to look 

at the same strategies around innovation, productivity, efficiency 

that are typical questions that the leaders of American business 

have had to deal with. And as I said earlier, they are not typically 

questions that show up on the campuses of 4-year schools and 2- 

year schools. 

The model that we’ve had, really, since the GI bill, has been good 

up until now. It’s been pretty much investing in bricks and mortar. 

And most college and university presidents are chief development 

officers. If you look back when CED was founded, Robert Maynard 

Hutchins from the University of Chicago was one of our founding 

trustees. You’ll think of people like Kingman Brewster or Derek 

Bach who played a real role in the intellectual life of the country. 

And that’s typically not the case now. 

I think that business can help the leaders of our post-secondary 

institutions rethink how they are going to spend their resources. 

One of the best models is Western Governors University, which is 

headed by a former senior executive from IBM. So what we hope 

to do with our report is to go around the country and identify the 

Jim Reniers of business, if you will, people who are going to get involved and help with exactly the type of relationship that Ms. 

Mann has talked about, that we’ve seen recently in New Orleans 

and also in Milwaukee. We know it’s out there. 

But a lot of business leaders 6 years ago would tell me, ‘‘We don’t 

see what the problem is. We sit on the board of our alma mater 

and things look fine.’’ You can’t say that now. The competition, the 

global challenges that we’ve heard about, are just too great. And 

so I think it’s not going to be easy, but we need business leaders 

to get involved, and that’s the niche of the Committee for Economic 

Development. 

I can’t tell you where it’s going to be in 5 years. I know it’s going 

to be different. And, hopefully, we’re going to identify the Jim 

Reniers of post-secondary education. We have a few already. 

Senator FRANKEN. I want to thank all of you. I, unfortunately, 

have to go. I could stay here all day and talk to all of you. Thank 

you for your testimony. Thank you for all the work that you’re 

doing. 

And thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. I agree with you. 

We’re going to have to break up, but I’m going to ask the last 

curve ball question. You’re not going to like it. You can only change 

one thing. You get one opportunity. You’re the dictator. You’re the 

king. You can change one thing about our education system, only 

one thing. What would it be? You only get one shot at it. 

I’m going to start with Ms. Mann and just work down the aisle. 

Or should I call on you? Who wants to go first? 

OK. Dr. Murnane. 

Mr. MURNANE. Improve assessments. 

The CHAIRMAN. Improve assessments. 
55 

Mr. MURNANE. So that the Nation’s best teachers feel that if they 

do what they consider their very best teaching to prepare our children to succeed in life, that they will do well on those assessments. 

The CHAIRMAN. OK. We’ll go down this way. 

Dr. Hanushek. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. Mine is simply to improve the evaluation of 

teachers and use those evaluations in making personnel decisions. 

The CHAIRMAN. OK. Fair enough. 

Mr. KOLB. I would recommend a national—not necessarily a Federal, but a national high stakes exam equivalent to the French baccalaureate. 

The CHAIRMAN. And that would be in high school? 

Mr. KOLB. Yes. 

The CHAIRMAN. A national high school exam. 

Mr. KOLB. At the end of high school, like the French baccalaureate, along those lines. 

The CHAIRMAN. OK. 

Mr. KOLB. Lest I get fired from CED, that’s my view. It’s not the 

official view of the Committee for Economic Development. We 

haven’t focused on that. But it’s my own thinking. 

The CHAIRMAN. OK. Got that. 

Ms. Mann. 

Ms. MANN. A stronger focus on computer science in education as 

well as improve the quality of the teachers and the incentives that 

they receive. 

The CHAIRMAN. So about three out of four was assessments, and 

I assume when you say improve assessments, you meant teacher 

assessments? 

Mr. MURNANE. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. What did you mean on that? 

Mr. MURNANE. Assessments of students, because unless the student assessments really do capture what our best teachers are trying to teach, then I think that’s the Achilles’ heel for the plan that 

Professor Hanushek is describing. 

The CHAIRMAN. OK. And that would start in elementary education. 

Mr. MURNANE. And go all the way up. 

The CHAIRMAN. All the way up. 

Mr. MURNANE. Including post-secondary. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you all very much. Again, I’m still focused 

on early, early learning. Head Start reaches only half. Who mentioned that? Senator Franken mentioned that 50 percent of eligible 

preschool—eligible—that’s low income—50 percent, but it reaches 

only 4 percent of eligible babies and toddlers, 4 percent. 

Childcare Federal subsidies serve only one out of seven eligible 

children. I’ve worked very hard in healthcare on putting more resources into prevention and wellness. Invest up front rather than 

patching and fixing and mending at the backend. 

I still ask all of you to keep thinking about—are we doing enough 

in the early years to get kids ready for school in those early, early 

years—everything from nutrition to intellectual stimulation, challenges for young kids. I’ve been at this a long time and I asked you 

what you would change. I’m still thinking more in terms of how we 

focus on these early, early years. 
56 

I’ll take this to heart, what you said, and it’s assessments, evaluations of teachers, the high school exam, teacher incentives to get 

our best teachers. I’m reminded that in some countries, they take 

the top students in high school and give them full scholarships and 

that is if they go into education, into teaching. And we don’t do 

that in this country. 

I’d sum up by saying that, as you said, Dr. Hanushek, we were 

tinkering around the margins. I guess that’s what we do around 

here. We tinker around the margins a lot of times. But if we get 

enough margins, maybe we can affect the central core. But sometimes that’s the best we can do. 

This has been very provocative, as I said many times before, and 

thank you for your input on this. As we proceed, I’d just ask you, 

if our staffs can continue to reach out to you and ask for your 

input. 

I never got to you again, Dr. Hanushek, because you said something about the margins, and you said we need to make major 

changes, and I didn’t ask you what those were. Maybe if you could 

send those to us. 

Mr. HANUSHEK. I’d be happy to respond. 

The CHAIRMAN. I’d love to have your thoughts on what you consider to be the major changes that we ought to make rather than 

tinkering around the edges. 

Again, thank you all very much. We’ll leave the record open for 

10 days, until March 22d. I want to thank all my colleagues for 

their hard work on this. This is an issue that we will continue to 

have further hearings on in this committee and try to develop. This 

is part of a series of hearings that I’ve called for on rebuilding the 

middle class in America. And, obviously, you’re not going to rebuild 

the middle class unless they have good jobs and economic opportunity, and that all comes back to education. 

Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. 

[Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] 

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