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68–443PDF 2011

HUMAN RIGHTS IN NORTH KOREA: CHALLENGES

AND OPPORTUNITIES

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH, 

AND HUMAN RIGHTS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

SEPTEMBER 20, 2011

Serial No. 112–104

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

DAN BURTON, Indiana 

ELTON GALLEGLY, California 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

RON PAUL, Texas 

MIKE PENCE, Indiana 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

CONNIE MACK, Florida 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida 

JEAN SCHMIDT, Ohio 

BILL JOHNSON, Ohio 

DAVID RIVERA, Florida 

MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania 

TIM GRIFFIN, Arkansas 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

ANN MARIE BUERKLE, New York 

RENEE ELLMERS, North Carolina 

VACANT 

HOWARD L. BERMAN, California 

GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York 

ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American 

Samoa 

DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

DENNIS CARDOZA, California 

BEN CHANDLER, Kentucky 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

ALLYSON SCHWARTZ, Pennsylvania 

CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut 

FREDERICA WILSON, Florida 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

YLEEM D.S. POBLETE, Staff Director 

RICHARD J. KESSLER, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH, AND HUMAN RIGHTS

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

TIM GRIFFIN, Arkansas 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

ANN MARIE BUERKLE, New York 

DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey 

KAREN BASS, California 

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

Ms. Suzanne Scholte, president, Defense Forum Foundation ............................. 4

Ms. Kim Young Soon, vice president, Committee for the Democratization 

of North Korea ...................................................................................................... 13

Ms. Kim Hye Sook, longest-serving survivor of North Korean prison camps .... 20

Mr. Greg Scarlatoiu, executive director, Committee for Human Rights in 

North Korea .......................................................................................................... 27

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

Ms. Suzanne Scholte: Prepared statement ............................................................ 8

Ms. Kim Young Soon: Prepared statement ............................................................ 16

Ms. Kim Hye Sook: Prepared statement ............................................................... 23

Mr. Greg Scarlatoiu: Prepared statement ............................................................. 29

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 52

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 53

The Honorable Christopher H. Smith, a Representative in Congress from 

the State of New Jersey, and chairman, Subcommittee on Africa, Global 

Health, and Human Rights: Statement of Mr. Kim Seong Min, Director 

of Free North Korea Radio .................................................................................. 54

(1)

HUMAN RIGHTS IN NORTH KOREA: 

CHALLENGES AND OPPORTUNITIES 

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 2011

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,

AND HUMAN RIGHTS

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3 o’clock p.m., in 

room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H. 

Smith (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Mr. SMITH. The subcommittee will come to order. And good afternoon to everybody. I want to thank you for joining us for this very 

important hearing to examine a country with one of the worst 

human rights records in the entire world. The Democratic People’s 

Republic of Korea is known to be the world’s most isolated country 

as its citizens are prohibited from traveling either internally or 

internationally without express permission. Communications with 

the outside world are also tightly regulated in attempts by the dictatorship to filter all information accessible by the North Korean 

people. 

Therefore, the testimony to be provided today by our distinguished panel, and in particular our two defector witnesses, is particularly welcomed and appreciated. Mrs. Kim Young Soon and 

Mrs. Kim Hye Sook, who both have survived the extreme deprivations of the North Korean prison camps, have traveled all the way 

from South Korea to share their experiences with our subcommittee. On behalf of the subcommittee, I want to thank them 

and convey to them our sincerest gratitude. 

I also want to thank Suzanne Scholte for her extraordinary work 

over these many years. I have chaired several hearings on North 

Korean human rights, and in every one of those hearings she has 

played a critical part in helping us to get witnesses who tell the 

true unvarnished story of what is actually happening in North 

Korea. Our two witnesses will tell the story and they will be speaking on behalf of an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 prisoners currently held in North Korean labor camps. 

It is our hope that their testimony will help to galvanize the 

international community to take action to secure the freedom of 

those who are needlessly suffering and dying under truly horrific 

conditions. Those living in the prison camps are not the only ones 

suffering in North Korea. As one of our witnesses—again, Suzanne 

Scholte—will testify, in North Korea every single human right enVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:21 Feb 23, 2012 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\AGH\092011\68443 HFA PsN: SHIRL
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shrined in the Universal Declaration on Human Rights is violated 

and it is often violated with absolute impunity. 

North Korea is listed by the State Department as a Tier III country with respect to human trafficking. In other words, they are 

egregious violators of modern-day slavery, buying and selling 

women and others as a commodity. 

North Korea was also just designated this month as one of eight 

Countries of Particular Concern for its violations of religious freedom. 

But not all the testimony during this hearing will be bleak, although much of it will be. We will hear about the new potential for 

communication to and with the North Korean people and explore 

possibilities for peaceful change given upcoming political events in 

North Korea and changes in other countries in the region. We look 

forward to discussing this potential to improve the lives of all people living in North Korea. 

I would like to now introduce our very distinguished panel and 

again thank all of you for being here today. I also want to thank 

C–SPAN for being here, for taking this information and conveying 

it to the American people. North Korea, because it is so closed, very 

often evades all scrutiny, so people know about it but don’t know 

very much. Your testimony, again, will help to shatter that lackadaisical sense of what Americans know and think about North 

Korea, so thank you again. 

We will begin with Ms. Suzanne Scholte who is the president of 

the Defense Forum Foundation and is a leader of several groups 

focused on protecting human rights in North Korea. She was recognized in 2010 with the Walter Judd Freedom Award, and in 2008 

with the Seoul Peace Prize. Ms. Scholte has helped rescue hundreds of North Korean refugees and facilitated the travel of defectors to speak in the United States. She has participated in numerous congressional hearings on North Korea on a wide range of topics, including political prison camps, trafficking of North Korean 

women, religious persecution, and North Korean refugees in China. 

I would note parenthetically that when we held a hearing on 

trafficked women, some of the—what they thought were lucky 

women who got out of North Korea into China—Ms. Scholte actually brought to this committee women who—one woman who went 

after her daughter, who made her way into China only to be sold 

into slavery, and then she and her daughter who went looking to 

rescue the trafficked women were themselves sold into sexual slavery. 

We will then hear from Ms. Kim Young Soon, Committee for the 

Democratization of North Korea, and she was a dancer and an actress in the North Korean Army. She was arrested in 1970 and 

sent to the Yoduk political prison camp with members of her family. Her parents and eldest son died in the camp, and her husband 

and youngest son later died trying to escape North Korea. Ms. Kim 

eventually escaped and has dedicated her life to exposing the truth 

about the hideous prison camps in North Korea by sharing her 

story around the globe. She is an outspoken defector, serving as the 

vice president of the Committee for the Democratization of North 

Korea and other human rights advocacy groups. 

3

We will then hear from Ms. Kim Hye Sook, who is a survivor of 

nearly three decades in Bukchang political prison camp. She and 

her family were imprisoned for ‘‘guilt by association’’ because of her 

grandfather’s defection to South Korea. She was just 13 years old. 

Ms. Kim regularly witnessed executions and abuse and endured 

manual labor, constant hunger, and the deaths of several family 

members. Once released, she fled to China but was forced to return 

to North Korea by her employer, where she was arrested again. 

When she escaped she returned to China but was sold by human 

traffickers, again like the other witnesses we have had before this 

committee. 

She eventually escaped to South Korea and continues to tell her 

story around the world. Earlier this year she published her memoirs in a book entitled, ‘‘A Concentration Camp Retold in Tears.’’

We will then hear from Mr. Greg Scarlatoiu, Committee for 

Human Rights in North Korea. Mr. Scarlatoiu is the executive director of the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, which 

was established to focus world attention on human rights abuses 

in North Korea and to offer creative solutions. Born and raised in 

Romania, he was a Bucharest University freshman when he witnessed the fall of Communism in eastern Europe, Nicolae 

Ceausescu’s barbaric regime. 

He lived in South Korea for 10 years and has authored English 

and Korean language articles on the applicability of the eastern 

European experience to North Korea context, as well as a weekly 

Korean language broadcast into North Korea by Radio Free Asia, 

and we welcome him as well. 

I would like to now yield to my friend and colleague Mr. Payne 

for any opening comments he might have. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for calling this 

very important hearing. And I would like to certainly express my 

appreciation to the witnesses here who have agreed to testify. Each 

of your stories help us to better understand the extent and magnitude of the human rights abuses of North Korea, and your guidance will help us to target our efforts in alleviating some of these 

terrible injustices. 

Human rights violations in North Korea are among the worst in 

the world. Under Kim Jong Il’s regime, North Korean citizens regularly face extra judiciary killings and detentions for basic political 

expressions, seemingly ordinary market activities, or unauthorized 

domestic travel. North Korea doesn’t seem to even need to violate 

the regime’s rules themselves, since they can be penalized for even 

the actions not of themselves but actually of their families, which 

is certainly unfair and unjust. 

While many of us cannot imagine a more stifling human rights 

environment, according to some observers, the conditions are worsening due to the preparation for Jong Il’s son, Kim Jong Un, to 

take over. 

In 2004 Congress passed a North Korean Human Rights Act authorizing funds toward human rights efforts and improving the 

flow of information to North Korea. Currently this amounts to $2 

million annually for human rights and democracy, $2 million for 

freedom of information programs and $20 million to assist North 

Korean refugees. I am interested in hearing from the panelists who 

4

have expertise in that area about their views on how proposed cuts 

to our international affairs budget would impact on our ability to 

adequately continue to fund these programs that have been successful in getting information to date. 

Although it is not in the realm of your testimony necessarily, I 

was very disturbed at the behavior of the North Korean leadership 

in November 2010 when it attacked South Korea’s island of 

Yeonpyeong with artillery shells, killing several people. This irresponsible behavior of government really is unwarranted and really 

needs to have continued watching and scrutinizing as to their behavior. Also their continued adventurism into ballistic missiles and 

other weapons of war certainly disturb us. 

So I certainly look forward to your testimonies, and thank you 

again for your willingness to share them. And I yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much. 

Would either of my other colleagues like to—no. 

I would like to now then yield the floor for such time as she may 

consume to Ms. Scholte. Let me, before you start, make a point. We 

also invited Ambassador-at-Large King, who could not be here because he is out of the country. He wanted to be here, and said very 

clearly he would gladly come and testify at a later date. And he 

also wanted to provide the testimony with a closed briefing as well 

on recent events, including the human rights situation in North 

Korea. 

Bob King, as my colleagues know so well, especially Mr. Payne, 

was the chief of staff for the Foreign Affairs Committee and very 

good choice for Ambassador, so we look forward to hearing from 

him as well. So, Ms. Scholte. 

STATEMENT OF MS. SUZANNE SCHOLTE, PRESIDENT, 

DEFENSE FORUM FOUNDATION 

Ms. SCHOLTE. Well, first of all, I just want to thank Congressman Smith for your many years of devotion on the North Korea 

human rights issues. And I want to thank Congressman Payne as 

well. It has been an honor and pleasure to work with your staff on 

our shared love for the Sahrawi people of Western Sahara, another 

divided country that is trying to get their freedom through self-determination. 

I want to give two main points at this hearing today. First of all, 

North Korea continues to be one of the darkest places on earth, yet 

we fail to focus on the main issue, which is the human rights 

issues, because we have instead focused on the nuclear issue, and 

this has had tragic results. 

Second, despite this ongoing tragedy, there is hope because of 

changes that are happening in that country. But if we fail to enact 

the policies that address the human rights conditions and empower 

those who can bring about change, then we will certainly end up 

just prolonging this regime. 

While we witness people rising up in North Africa, in the Middle 

East, we wonder why do North Koreans, who are arguably the 

most persecuted people in the world, not rise up? It is precisely because they are the most persecuted in the world. North Koreans 

are the only people in the world that do not enjoy one single 

5

human right that is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of 

Human Rights, a document, ironically, that was adopted in 1948, 

the same year that Kim Il Sung came to power. This declaration 

was in response to the atrocities committed by the Axis powers 

during World War II. 

When the Nazi death camps were liberated by the Allied Forces 

during that war, the international community vowed never again, 

never again would we allow these kinds of atrocities to occur. But 

the political prison camps in North Korea have existed longer than 

the Soviet gulag, longer than the Chinese Laogai, and longer than 

the Nazi death camps. 

Your two defector witnesses today are living proof of the horrors 

of these camps, as well as the length of their existence. One was 

imprisoned in Yoduk in the 1970s, while another was imprisoned 

for 28 years, up through the beginning of this decade, in Bukchang. 

We have seen millions of North Koreans starve to death despite billions of economic assistance. 

And North Koreans are not the only ones who suffer from Kim 

Jong Il’s dictatorship. But South Korean POWs are still being held 

in North Korea today, while at least 108,308 captives are being 

held in North Korea, including 80,000 abductees from South Korea 

and hundreds of others from 13 countries, as recently documented 

by the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea. 

Former Presidents Bill Clinton and George Bush made human 

rights a secondary issue, with the hope of engaging North Korea 

to give up their nuclear ambitions. We see the failure of these efforts as North Korea has realized its nuclear ambitions and its proliferation activity continues. Kim Jong Il may be an evil dictator, 

but he has brilliantly manipulated the good intentions of both 

America and South Korea. 

My second point: There is hope because things are changing in 

North Korea. Despite Kim Jong Il’s best efforts to literally keep 

North Koreans in the dark, up to 60 percent of North Koreans have 

access to some form of information beyond the regime’s propaganda. They are increasingly learning that the source of their misery is not America or South Korea, as they are brainwashed from 

childhood to believe, but the source of their misery is in fact Kim 

Jong Il and his regime. 

North Korean defectors are sending remittances to their families, 

helping demonstrate the prosperity in South Korea. North Korea 

now has a cell phone system with well over 500,000 subscribers. 

And although you cannot call directly from South Korea, defectors 

pay brokers in China to contact their families. 

We also see the defectors themselves getting information into 

North Korea from DVDs, VCDs, USBs and flash drives through 

China and other creative means such as balloon launches. North 

Koreans, especially the elites, are keeping up with South Korean 

soap operas and watching many South Korean, as well, as western 

films. Therefore, it is more important than ever to raise the human 

rights concerns so that they know our concerns are for them. 

For example, it was a brilliant action by the Obama administration to include Special Envoy for North Korea Human Rights Ambassador King in the delegation that went to North Korea to assess 

the food situation. This underscored the fact that it is the human 

6

rights conditions in North Korea that are causing the starvation. 

Furthermore, North Koreans are no longer dependent on Kim Jong 

Il’s regime to survive, as over 200 private markets are functioning 

and the regime has given up trying to control them. This capitalism is saving them from experiencing the same level of starvation that led to the deaths of millions during the famine. 

Kim Jong Il’s unprovoked attacks on South Korea, as Congressman Payne just mentioned, have awakened South Koreans to the 

truth that we must not ignore the human rights of North Koreans 

for the false promise of this regime to end its nuclear program. 

To take advantage of these changes, governments, nongovernmental organizations, and individuals first of all should make 

human rights central to all negotiations with or about North 

Korea. 

Second, we should only provide food when relief organizations 

can stay and monitor it to the point of consumption; otherwise it 

will most assuredly be diverted to maintain the regime that is 

causing the starvation in the first place. 

Third, we need to continue to support radio broadcasting, especially programs like Radio Free Asia and Voice of America and the 

independent radio broadcasters like Free North Korea Radio, a defector-led station in Seoul. 

Fourth, we need to empower the defector organizations that are 

using creative methods to get information into North Korea, like 

Fighters for a Free North Korea and the North Korea People’s Liberation Front. 

Five, we must convince the Chinese to end their brutal policy of 

forced repatriation for North Korean refugees, which is prolonging 

this crisis by giving Kim Jong Il a reason to resist any reforms that 

would improve the situation in that country so that North Koreans 

do not want to risk their lives trying to flee. 

Six, we should support the 12 North Korean defector churches. 

For example, I have been working to try to connect churches here 

in the United States with these defector churches that have been 

formed in South Korea. 

Seven, we need to put the elites in this regime on notice that 

they will be held accountable for their crimes against the North 

Korean people. 

Last week, a North Korean assassin was caught. His mission was 

to kill Park Sang Hak who heads Fires for a Free North Korea. 

Park Sang Hak is the one that has been doing the balloon launches 

sending in information. Both Park and Kim Seung Min, who leads 

Free North Korea Radio, who is here at this hearing, have been 

regularly targeted by assassins sent by Kim Jong Il. What this tells 

us is that what they are doing is the most effective work. 

At the end of 2009, Free North Korea Radio started broadcasting 

Voices from the People. These were actual interviews from inside 

the country that they broadcast back in. Supporting this flow of information through radio broadcasting, especially by North Korean 

defectors, is the most effective way to reach the people because the 

Internet is only available to the elites in the regime. 

Recently, the North Korea People’s Liberation Front was formed 

by former North Korean military, including officers, special forces, 

cyber warfare experts, and propaganda specialists. This is signifiVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:21 Feb 23, 2012 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\AGH\092011\68443 HFA PsN: SHIRL
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cant because the only time there was organized opposition against 

the regime was from the military who had studied in the Soviet 

Union and came back to North Korea wanting reform. Although 

they were eventually discovered, they operated against the regime 

from 1989 until 1994. Because all North Korean males must serve 

for 10 years and the elites are exempt from service, this means 

that the North Korean military truly represents the people. 

We saw the Army in Romania turn against Kim Il Sung and Kim 

Jong Il’s good friend Nicholae Ceausescu when the people of that 

country rose up against their dictator. Right now, the elites in 

power have absolutely no incentive to oppose Kim Jong Il because 

their entire lives are based on the successful transfer of power to 

Kim Jong Un. We must assure them that they would have a stake 

in the future if North Korea opens up to reform. 

Because North Koreans are citizens under South Korea, under 

the Korean Constitution, South Korea has an important role to 

play, and they should convene a tribunal of respected judges to 

begin the prosecution of those in the regime responsible for the political prison camps and these other atrocities. 

There are 23,000 eyewitnesses now, and we should start naming 

the names of those who are committing these crimes. When North 

Korea finally opens up, I believe we will be even more horrified at 

the atrocities that the Kim regimes have committed against the 

North Korean people that today are beyond our imagination. We 

will face the same questions that the world faced when the allies 

liberated the Nazi death camps: What did you know and what did 

you do to help stop our tragic circumstances? 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Scholte, thank you very much for your testimony 

and for your leadership all these years, and for that very incisive 

testimony. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Suzanne Scholte follows:]

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Mr. SMITH. We will now hear from Ms. Kim Young Soon. 

STATEMENT OF MS. KIM YOUNG SOON, VICE PRESIDENT, 

COMMITTEE FOR THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF NORTH KOREA 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. Hello. My name is Kim Young Soon, author of I was a Friend of Sung Hae Rim. I am a North Korean defector and a survivor of North Korean political prison camp, Yoduk, 

camp number 15. First of all, I want to thank the Members of the 

United States Congress and related officials of the Congress for 

giving me a chance to speak at this important venue. I also would 

like to thank Ms. Suzanne Scholte of the Defense Forum Foundation for her years of friendship and for listening to my story of the 

North Korean political prison camp experience. 

Camp number 15 Yoduk where I was incarcerated is now well 

known throughout the world. Yoduk political prison camp was created in July 1969 under orders of Kim Il Sung in Yoduk-gun in 

South Hamkyung Province in a region known for its rough and 

mountainous features. It is here that for 30 years people who have 

incurred the wrath of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il have been sent 

for the crime of being a political prisoner and where they have died 

silent deaths. 

I wrote of my time at Yoduk into a book entitled I Was a Friend 

of Sung Hae Rim. Sung Hae Rim was at one point in my life my 

friend and also the hidden mistress of Kim Jong Il, and anyone 

who knew the secret in North Korea were either executed or sent 

to political prison camps. I became a victim of this myself and was 

therefore sent to Yoduk. I want to tell the world about what happened to me and also tell the world about the reality of the North 

Korean political prison camp system. 

The Worker’s Party’s establishment of the One Thought Principle 

was instituted whereby the citizens were sent to prison camps for 

total isolation from the general public—general society for the following crimes: The crime of defaming the authority and prestige of 

Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il; the crime of knowledge about the 

private life of Kim Jong Il and leaking information about it to the 

general public, thus defaming the prestige of the great leader. 

When I was sent to the prison camp I had no knowledge about 

these facts. The following are the political crimes that I came to 

know of after I was incarcerated in the Yoduk prison camp: The 

crime of talking about the cyst or lump on Kim Il Sung’s neck; or 

the crime of unwittingly damaging or soiling the statue or portrait 

of Kim Il Sung; the crime of knowing about the private life of Kim 

Jong Il, for example, knowing about Sung Hae Rim being the secret 

mistress of Kim Jong Il and disclosing this information to an outsider; the crime of revealing the birth of Kim Jong Nam, the firstborn son of Kim Jong Il; the crime of listening to or viewing foreign 

radio or TV broadcast; the crime of questioning or criticizing the 

policy of the Worker’s Party; and the crime of expressing criticism 

or complaints about North Korean society. 

I was a close friend—I was close friends with Sung Hae Rim, 

having gone to the same school with her from girl’s high school to 

college, and one day I heard directly from her that she will be 

going to Special Residence number five. At that time, those in the 

know knew that Special Residence number five meant the resiVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:21 Feb 23, 2012 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\AGH\092011\68443 HFA PsN: SHIRL
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dence of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il. However, at the time I was 

taken to the political prison camp, I had no idea why I was being 

incarcerated. And it was only in the summer of 1989, after I was 

released, did I find out the reason why from a state security agent 

in Pyongyang. 

The security agent said the following to me: ‘‘Sung Hae Rim was 

not the wife of Kim Jong Il nor did she bear him a son. These are 

all groundless rumors. If you mention anything about this again 

you will not be forgiven.’’

I would like to talk briefly about my interrogation before I was 

sent to the political prison camp. On August 1, 1970, I was forced 

into a car by state security agents and taken to a secret location 

where I was interrogated for 2 months by a unit called Unit 312 

for preliminary investigation in a state security investigation room. 

Under extreme fear for 2 months, I was told to write my entire life 

story and to include everything and leave out nothing, so I wrote 

on and on. 

In my writing I confessed and wrote about Sung Hae Rim coming 

over to my house and telling me that she would be going to Special 

Residence number five, and also admitted that people around me 

knew this information as well. After the investigations were over 

on October 1, 1970, my entire family and I, seven people in total, 

were sent to Yoduk political prison camp. The person who committed the crime was labeled the conspirator or ring leader, while 

those taken along for yeon-jwa-jweh, a Korean word for guilt by association, were labeled nonprincipal criminals, and this was how 

the criminals in the prison camp were classified. We woke up at 

3:30 in the morning to go to work by 4:30 a.m. And the labor was 

from sun-up until sun-down. Meals had to be provided by ourselves 

through self-sufficiency. I saw countless prisoners contract the disease pellagra and suffer from diarrhea and die. 

After work was finished there were daily Fight for Ideology meetings for all the prisoners. Those who were unfortunate enough to 

be caught by security agents during these ideology meetings and 

sent away in shackles were never seen again. 

The forced manual labor was beyond anyone’s imagination, and 

in case of falling short of work goals, the whole group was punished. There were so many dead bodies that I saw there, enough 

to fill up a field. My three sons, one daughter, father and mother, 

died from starvation. There were no coffins so their bodies were 

rolled in a straw mat and buried. One of my sons, who was 9 years 

old at the time, drowned to death in Ryongyung River which is 

near the prison camp. My daughter was given away for adoption 

after our release so that she can have a better life. To this day I 

do not know about her whereabouts, whether she is alive or dead. 

My youngest son was publicly executed by a firing squad for trying 

to escape North Korea after his release and attempting to go to 

South Korea in 1993 at the age of 23. My husband was sent to another political prison camp, a total and complete control zone, on 

July 4, 1970, and to this day I do not know whether he is dead or 

alive. 

So from my original family of eight people, currently only two 

have survived and successfully escaped from North Korea—myself 

and another son. The rest of my family, six people, have all died. 

15

My older brother, who was the pillar of our family, was a colonel 

in the North Korean Army during the North Korea War, serving 

the North Korean 3rd Infantry, and while on a mission for the division commander, he was killed in battle at the age of 25. Accordingly, our family received favors for my brother’s heroic acts from 

Kim Il Sung and we lived well until our family was sent to a political prison camp. And as a result of feeling betrayed, I escaped 

from North Korea. Even after I was released from Yoduk political 

prison camp, I was classified as an anti-regime reactionary and suffered under the monitoring by the state security apparatus. I escaped North Korea on February 1, 2001, and entered South Korea 

in November 2003. 

In conclusion, I would just like to say that in the political prison 

camps in North Korea, it is a place where the prisoners will eat 

anything that flies, crawls, or grows in the field. I wasted 9 years 

of the prime of my life in that hellhole of a place where even animals turn their faces away. I lost all my family members and have 

lived a life of tears, of blood, and extreme hardship. 

Please save the 23 million people in North Korea who are living 

a life of misery not unlike what I had suffered. Even though I am 

now over 70 years old, I will fight for the freedom of my people, 

my countrymen, until all my strength is expended. This is the reason why I have lived so far and I believe also my purpose. 

On that note I want to deeply thank, again, the members of this 

committee for your interest in the human rights situation of North 

Korea, especially the political prison camps. Thank you. 

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Kim, thank you so much. The brutality that you 

yourself have suffered and the loss of your family members, including a daughter who, as you said was adopted obviously without 

your permission, you have no idea where she is, your husband you 

have no idea where he is and the loss of your other family members, just underscores the brutality of Kim Jong Il; and the fact 

that the West, the United States and any country that has any 

sense of compassion, needs to speak out against this horrific abuse. 

And this should not be a second-tier issue, the human rights 

abuses that are commonplace in North Korea. So we thank you for 

making us further aware of the extreme barbarity you have been 

made to endure and your family. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Kim Young Soon follows:]

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Mr. SMITH. We will now hear from another Ms. Kim who has suffered three decades in the gulag and we look forward to hearing 

her testimony. 

STATEMENT OF MS. KIM HYE SOOK, LONGEST-SERVING 

SURVIVOR OF NORTH KOREAN PRISON CAMPS 

Ms. KIM HYE SOOK [through interpreter]. Hello, my name is Kim 

Hye Sook. I am a North Korean defector who was incarcerated in 

political prison camp number 18, Bukchang prison camp, in 

Bukchang-gun South Pyongang Province for 28 years, and in 2009 

I escaped North Korea and entered South Korea via China, Laos, 

and Thailand. 

In February 1975 for reasons that were unknown to me at that 

time, I was dragged with my parents to the prison camp. I was 13 

years old at the time. During my incarceration at camp number 18 

I lost my grandmother, mother, brother and my husband. I only 

found out after I was out of that hell-on-earth camp number 18 

why I was sent to the prison camp: Because my grandfather had 

defected South Korea during the Korean War. But by then I had 

nowhere to go and complain about this situation. 

I would like to say that the term ‘‘kwan-li-so’’ in North Korea is 

a living hell for human beings, a place where people who have committed so-called crimes are sent and incarcerated as a group and 

forced to work in manual slave labor. There are political prison 

camps where people who have been found guilty of being against 

Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il or those resisting the regime are sent 

and held; whereas in places like camp number 18 where I was incarcerated in, besides political prisoners, those who are guilty of 

economic crimes are sent along with family members and are 

forced to work in coal mines. 

In camp number 18 in Bukchang where I was imprisoned, the 

whole prison camp was encircled by high electrified fence, and trying to escape through this over 3,000 volts of electrified fence was 

unimaginable. 

When I first entered the prison camp we were told to memorize 

ten rules of the prison camp. And I remember it vividly because I 

remembered them from such an early age. One of the rules was 

that the prisoners were not supposed to know the reason for ending 

up in the prison camp, and those found violating this rule will be 

relentlessly executed by a firing squad. For young people like me, 

who ended up in the prison camp at a young age, we were given 

very rudimentary education, basic Korean language education, and 

then when we turned 16 or 17, everyone without exception was 

sent to the coal mines to dig out coal, and this goes without saying 

for the adults as well. 

We had to work 16–18 hour work days without rest or holidays. 

And for food, our family of seven was provided only around ten 

pounds of corn per month. And this was supplemented by gruel 

made from grass or anything that we picked from the field, tree 

bark, grass, and that is what we ate, one meal a day, corn and the 

mixed grass gruel that we had to make for ourselves. 

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Kim, if you could just suspend for one brief moment. We are joined by the chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee that deals with justice issues and science, but is also the 

21

author of the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998. As we 

all know, North Korea is a Tier III trafficking country. It is Congressman Frank Wolf who cares deeply about human rights, but he 

can only stay a brief minute. 

Mr. WOLF. Thank you, Mr. Smith. I want to thank you and Mr. 

Payne and the committee for having this hearing. I met with the 

witnesses earlier today. It was one of the most significant and moving testimony and reports that I have ever ever heard. And I think 

certainly the State Department should do everything they can, 

quite frankly, to bring about regime change in North Korea. 

When this government falls, as it will fall, the same way the 

East German Government fell with regard to the Berlin Wall, the 

West will feel so guilty to know that it said nothing, other than the 

hearings that the members here have had, has said nothing with 

regard to what takes place. This administration should do everything. 

And lastly, and I will end with this. I think the church in the 

West, all religious faiths in the West, should come together and 

support these people in every way they can, to see about that the 

fact that hundreds of thousands are in these camps is totally unacceptable. So anyone within the Voice who can hear this, can follow 

this hearing. Ought to be advocating it. 

So I want to again thank you, Mr. Payne, and the other members, and thank the witnesses for coming by my office. I am on my 

way to a 4 o’clock, but I was just moved to come by because what 

I heard was just so powerful. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield 

back. I thank you very much. 

Mr. SMITH. Chairman Wolf, thank you very much. Ms. Kim, if 

you could continue. 

Ms. KIM HYE SOOK. And I was plagued with hunger from the day 

I entered the prison camp until the day I was released. And my one 

wish was to just eat one bowl of white rice for one meal. After I 

became an adult and during my times of working at the coal mine, 

walking to and from work, I would look around for anything to eat. 

And regardless of season, it became a habit to scrape or pluck anything that was green and make soup and eat it, whether it was 

from tree bark or from grass. I cannot even begin to describe how 

many people suffered and died because of starvation in the prison 

camp and how many people were killed without reason for not listening to authorities or not showing enough repentance. Though 

public execution by firing squad—through public execution by firing squad, their bodies were riddled with countless bullet holes, 

and I saw countless bodies that ended up like this. There was a 

time when I saw the bodies of people who were killed by firing 

squad were rolled up in a straw mat and carried away in carts, and 

I said to myself even dogs will not die so pitifully. 

In this place where human lives were worthless than those of 

flies, this was where my brother and husband died also. Their 

deaths were classified as due to accidents, but their deaths were 

intentional deaths carried out in the atmosphere of the prison 

camps where nothing was normal. 

And as a result of working the coal mines for over 12 years, I 

contracted black lung and faced death many times. But in place of 

my mother, who passed away before me, I vow to survive and live 

22

on and look after my siblings, my remaining siblings, and that devotion was what allowed me to survive that hell. And my siblings 

are still incarcerated at camp number 18, my brother and sister. 

And in December 1974, before our family was sent off to prison 

camp, camp number 18, my father was hauled away by the State 

Security Bureau, never to be heard from again. I do not know what 

happened to him to this day. And even at this moment as I speak, 

there are over 10,000 people—20,000 people who are in camp 18 

without knowing the reason why, people who are dying from abuse 

and lack of rights at this very moment. 

And this is not just happening in camp number 18, but I would 

like to say that this is the suffering and sadness that 23 million 

North Korean citizens are going through and suffering, experiencing right now. 

Not only that, but besides the human rights violations going on 

in North Korea, there is now the cruelty and misery inflicted on 

North Korean refugee women who have escaped North Korea into 

China through the terrible situation of human trafficking happening in different places. After narrowly escaping death and coming out of North Korea and into China and then becoming victims 

of human and sexual trafficking, I can say with authority that the 

tragic situation of the North Korean refugee women must be told 

again and again in the international community. I myself was sold 

four different times in four different cities in China. And the inhumane and the indescribable suffering that these women go through 

in China, being sold like commodity, still keeps me awake at night. 

Please end the existence of such a society and make it into a 

place where humans can live as people. Please let the people without any rights in North Korea live in freedom and happiness. 

Please get rid of the political prison camps, and please tell those 

who do not know about freedom what freedom is about. 

I sincerely hope that my earnest pleas will be delivered to the 

United States Congress, to the United States Government, and to 

the people of America. I also want to deeply thank the honorable 

members of this committee here today who have made it possible 

for me to speak, as well as Ms. Suzanne Scholte of the Defense 

Forum Foundation. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Kim Hye Sook follows:]

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Mr. SMITH. Ms. Kim, without a doubt, your message has been 

heard, and thank you for sharing what can only be described as 

enormous suffering that you have experienced, being sold into sexual slavery, the loss of family members, and so there will be positive consequences for your testimony. We will work hard to promote human rights in North Korea, I can assure you of that. 

Before going to Mr. Scarlatoiu, I would just note I have a bill on 

the floor right this minute. It is the reauthorization of the Combating Autism Act of 2011. So I will leave briefly, but, without objection, Mr. Payne has graciously said that he will take the committee now. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. Congressman, I just want to say, this is a map 

that she drew of the camp she was in. 

Mr. PAYNE. We will now hear from our final witness. 

STATEMENT OF MR. GREG SCARLATOIU, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN NORTH KOREA 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. Good afternoon, Mr. Payne and Ms. Bass. 

Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today about the 

human rights situation in North Korea and about the apparent increase in the amount of information getting into that country. It is 

an honor and a privilege to have the opportunity to discuss these 

issues with you today. 

Mr. Payne, I would like to begin by informing you that I will be 

presenting a brief summary of the views included in my prepared 

statement. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you. Without objection. 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. After the very emotional and comprehensive 

testimony by Ms. Scholte, after the heartbreaking testimony by Ms. 

Kim Young Soon and Ms. Kim Hye Sook, there is barely anything 

I can add on the human rights situation in North Korea. The 

human rights situation in North Korea remains abysmal. 

According to experts and testimony by recent North Korean defectors, there is no evidence that the human rights situation in 

North Korea has improved as the Kim regime proceeds with steps 

toward leadership succession. On the contrary, it appears the border crackdown aimed at preventing North Koreans from defecting 

to China has intensified, and the political prisoner camp population 

has been on the increase. 

In May of this year, Amnesty International released satellite imagery and new testimony shedding light on the horrific conditions 

in North Korea’s political prisoner camps. According to that organization, the prisoner population detained at such camps is up to 

200,000; and a comparison of the latest satellite photos with satellite imagery from 2001 indicates a considerable increase in the 

scale of the camps. 

Moving on to the flow of information getting into North Korea, 

although officially all personal radios must have a fixed dial and 

be registered with state security offices, programming by stations, 

including Voice of America, Radio Free Asia, and broadcasters 

based in South Korea may have a listenership of around 30 percent 

in North Korea. 

The number of radios smuggled from China has been on the increase. The North Korean authorities continue to attempt to jam 

28

foreign broadcasting but face serious limitations in their efforts as 

jamming is energy intensive and North Korea is experiencing endemic energy shortages. 

In recent years, we have found out that there has been a significant increase in the amount of information entering North Korea. 

This development is the result of the marketization that has taken 

place in that country. Such marketization is by no means an intended top-down reform program but, rather, a function of state 

failure. Small, informal markets provide ordinary people a coping 

mechanism that enables them to survive. 

During the informal marketization of North Korea, supply chains 

have developed from China to North Korea’s capital city of 

Pyongyang; and MP3 players, CD–ROMs, DVDs, and thumb drives 

have been entering North Korea. Statistical data, including a 2010 

survey of North Korean refugees and travelers by the Broadcasting 

Board of Governors, indicate that 27 percent of respondents have 

listened to foreign radio, 48 percent have come in contact with foreign DVDs and other video material, while 27 percent have 

watched foreign TV. 

Information is also being passed from one member to the next 

along such supply chains. It appears that the ‘‘Korean Wave,’’ consisting of South Korean soap opera and music, exceptionally popular elsewhere in Asia and beyond, has also reached North Korea. 

According to Japan’s Asahi Shimbun, one member of a group of 

nine North Koreans who recently sailed for 5 days before being 

picked up off the west coast of Japan 1 week ago on September 13, 

this gentleman, a squid fisherman, said that he was inspired to 

leave his home by South Korean soap operas. 

In January, 2008, Egyptian company Orascom Telecom Holding 

was awarded a license to establish a 3G mobile network in North 

Korea. When launched in December, 2008, Koryolink had 5,300 

subscribers. In its half-year earnings report for January-June, 

2011, published on August 10, Orascom stated the number of subscribers in North Korea had reached 660,000. 

Separate from the expansion of the Koryolink network, citizens 

of North Korea have also been using Chinese cellular phones smuggled across the border into North Korea. 

We have indication that Koryolink intends to launch 3G Internet 

service via Apple iPad in Pyongyang this fall by a special SIM card. 

Nevertheless, Internet access is likely to continue to be restricted 

to foreign residents and those close to the Kim regime. There are 

also those North Koreans who possess computers not connected to 

the Web, and they are estimated to represent about 3 percent of 

the entire population. 

Based on data collected through interviews with North Korean 

defectors and the proven track record of success in winning the ideological confrontation during the Cold War, radio broadcasting will 

continue to be one of the few media available to grant the people 

of North Korea access to information from the outside world. Computers not connected to the Internet, thumb drives, DVDs, CD–

ROMs, and MP3 players have become increasingly available, although access to such devices is still relatively limited. Efforts to 

increase the flow of the information into North Korea should take 

into account the increasing availability of such vehicles. 

29

I wish to thank the subcommittee and its staff for the opportunity to testify before you today, and I would now be pleased to 

try to answer any questions that you might have. 

Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Greg Scarlatoiu follows:]


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Mr. PAYNE. Thank you very much. 

Let me once again thank each of the witnesses. Your testimony 

is certainly very compelling. We, of course, have heard and we try 

to keep up with the situation in North Korea, but it certainly 

brings it home when we have a hearing and to hear especially from 

individuals who have lived through the horrors of this regime; and, 

of course, we appreciate our experts from the Defense Forum Foundation and the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea. 

Perhaps to either one of you who are working with organizations 

that deal with that, Mrs. Scholte or Mr. Scarlatoiu, the special 

envoy for North Korea human rights, Ambassador Robert King, has 

said that the United States Government would engage in an indepth dialogue on human rights issues at the Six-Party Talks. The 

Six-Party Talks are at an impasse. 

The absence of Six-Party Talks—first of all, what do each of you 

feel that the Six-Party Talks have achieved in the past and whether there were any real gains forward, first of all? But, secondly, if, 

indeed, you feel that it is an impasse or there is really not a real 

effort on the part of North Korea, what other fora would the 

Obama administration consider employing for human rights dialogue with Pyongyang? So whether talks past, and they have been 

going on for a bit through several administrations, and if they are 

scrapped, in absence of that, could there be anything else or should 

we continue with these? Could I ask each one of you if you would 

like to comment. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. Well, first of all, I think that, regarding the SixParty Talks, this was an effort by the Bush administration to rein 

in North Korea’s nuclear ambitions, and they made the decision 

that they would just focus on the nuclear issue and not address any 

of the human rights concerns. They kicked the human rights concerns down the road. 

We can tell by history that North Koreans are brilliant at manipulating the talks and using talks to gain aid and support, make 

promises they never intend to keep. They did the same thing to Bill 

Clinton during the Agreed Framework, and I think former President Clinton could be excused for that because he was dealing with 

a new dictator when he was President. But the Bush administration I think should have known better. They should have known 

the history of how this regime uses talks. 

What you have seen during these talks, the result has been 

North Korea has developed nuclear weapons. It is very active in 

the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and exactly the purpose of 

these talks was never realized. But, at the same time, millions of 

North Koreans have died. And so I think that talking with this regime is useless. They only use these talks to extract concessions 

and support and legitimize the regime. 

I think, instead, we need to take a new approach. I think President Obama is in a unique position to do that. 

I think that we should make human rights the number one policy of our Government. I think that we should reach out to the 

North Korean people. I think that President Obama should be talking about the fact that—I think we should say we want to give 

North Korea as much aid as they need so that the people are not 

starving, but we want to be able to see that it is consumed. I think 

34

we should be talking about the fact that we want to help the people. We want to improve conditions there. We would like to see the 

International Red Cross go to political prisoner camps. 

North Korea denies they have any camps. Well, fine, let’s let an 

independent agency like the International Red Cross go to these 

camps. 

And I think that we need to be focusing on the human rights 

issues in our policy but, at the same time, doing everything we can 

to support the kind of creative things that the defectors themselves 

are doing in radio broadcasting and these balloon launches. Because the impact that Free North Korea Radio had, which went on 

Internet broadcast in 2004 and then went on shortwave in 2006, 

the impact that Free North Korea Radio had was amazing. It set 

the pace for all the broadcasters because it was the defectors themselves. 

And as you know, the North Koreans are raised to believe that 

South Korea and the United States caused the Korean War. They 

are brainwashed with stuff that we would think was completely ridiculous, but they believe this. So when the North Koreans themselves are talking and broadcasting these views and these opinions 

into North Korea, North Koreans can’t dismiss them. So it has had 

a tremendous impact, and I think we have to be doing everything 

we can to reach out with that message to the North Korean people 

and using the defectors especially. 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. Mr. Payne, the main reason why nothing has 

been happening on the Six-Party Talks front for a while now is 

that North Korea has refused to act as a responsible member of the 

international community. 

North Korea has continued to proceed with missile nuclear developments. North Korea engaged in very serious provocations last 

year. In March, it launched a torpedo attack on the South Korean 

corvette, the Cheonan. Forty-six South Korean sailors were killed 

in that attack. As you have already mentioned, on November 23, 

North Korea shelled South Korean territory, the South Korean island of Yeonpyeong, and this attack resulted in military and civilian casualties. 

We have already heard about assassins sent to kill Mr. Park 

Sang-hak, one of the very active North Korea defectors in South 

Korea, a few weeks back. There were deep concerns about an alleged assassination plot targeting Mr. Kim Kwan-jin, the defense 

minister of South Korea. And before the most high-profile North 

Korean defector, Mr. Hwang Jang-yop, passed away late last year, 

only few months before that we heard about a plot that was targeting him for assassination. 

That being said, North Korea has also continued to oppress its 

own people. North Korea has continued to refuse to abide by the 

international obligations that it is supposed to abide by, given it is 

a party to the international Covenant on Civil and Political Rights; 

the international Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural 

Rights; the International Convention against All Forms of Discrimination against Women; the International Convention on the 

Rights of the Child; and, as a U.N. member state, it is supposed 

to be bound by the U.N. Universal Declaration on Human Rights. 

35

As to whether human rights should be on the agenda, it is the 

firm belief of the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea that 

human rights, the improvement of the human rights situation in 

North Korea should be at the top of our priorities; and, personally, 

as I hope that one day we will see the complete, irreversible, and 

verifiable dismantlement of North Korea’s nuclear program, I also 

hope that we will see the complete, irreversible, and verifiable dismantlement of North Korea’s political prisoner camps as well. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you very much. 

Let me ask you, Ms. Kim Young Soon, or you, Ms. Kim Hye 

Sook, there is—and I know that your experiences in North Korea 

were years ago and you have very compelling testimony. I am just 

curious to know, in your days as a young person, as a child, as a 

teenager, as a young adult growing up, what type of society, what 

type of programs does the government impose on children? 

You know, it is supposed to be a time of life when people are 

happy. They are growing and learning. To your best recollection, 

could you, if you can, explain what is life like for a young child and 

a young teenager, young adult growing up in North Korea today, 

if you can sort of transpose your experiences. 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. Congressman, in answer to your question, 

after the liberation from Japan in 1945 and until the 1970s, North 

Korea was actually a little bit better—was actually better than 

South Korea in terms of the economic situation. 

And as for myself, when I was young, I went to school and I attended the university, Pyongyang University of Fine Arts, and I 

majored in dance. I learned under the teachings of a very wellknown North Korean dancer. And before I went to Yoduk prison 

camp, I can say with assurance that I was very happy, that my 

happiness quotient, so to speak, was very high in terms of living 

in North Korean society. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you. 

Ms. KIM HYE SOOK. Congressman, for my case, before I was sent 

away to Bukchang prison camp, I had a life where I had no worries 

about food, about eating. I went to school. I lived a normal life. But 

because I was sent to prison camp at such an early age, that is all 

about that I can share about in terms of my experience in relation 

to your question. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you. 

One other question that I was just curious about. As we do know 

that in World War II there was the question of the brothels that 

were created in Korea, and I wonder whether it was in the north 

of Korea or was that primarily in Korea itself, if anyone recalls. 

As you may know, we are still working on a real apology from 

the Government of Japan. There has been some apologies, but this 

has been an issue that has plagued the world since that time. I 

wonder whether it was prevalent throughout Korea. 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. My answer to you, sir, is that before liberation in—before the liberation in 1945, even in the northern part 

of the peninsula, North Korea, there were incidents or places where 

these comfort women stationed on locations were based in North 

Korea, and I believe that even if this issue were to be addressed 

with the Japanese Government we would not be getting a satisfacVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:21 Feb 23, 2012 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00039 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\AGH\092011\68443 HFA PsN: SHIRL
36

tory answer or clear answer from the Japanese Government in regard to your question, sir. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you. 

I yield to the gentlelady from California. 

Ms. BASS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. 

I actually would like to follow up on a question that Mr. Payne 

said to Ms. Soon and Ms. Sook about your childhood until you went 

into the camps. And, Ms. Soon, you said up until the 1970s—and 

I realize that is when you went into the camps—but did things 

drastically change in North Korea and when? 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. To answer your question, Kim Il Sung’s 

propaganda was set in place between the years of liberation and 

until the Korean War. Those years were known as the best years 

in terms of the affluence and prosperity of North Korea. 

After the Korean War, there were various economic trends that 

were instituted to try to help the economy and to help the people 

live better. But, in 1987—in the late 1980s, after the Soviet Union 

collapsed and after the help from that part of the region stopped, 

that is what brought on the change in terms of the economic downturn and the conditions for the people in North Korea. 

Ms. BASS. I see. 

First of all, let me also just thank you for coming and sharing 

your testimony. I think it is very, very important that people in 

this country hear and learn what is going on in North Korea, because I don’t think much is known here about what is happening 

there. And the pain and the suffering that you have described, the 

loss of your family members, not knowing where your children are, 

your husband, you know, is just—I think it is an immeasurable 

amount of pain, and I appreciate you taking the time and sharing 

that with us. 

I think it is especially important because the need for foreign aid 

and the need for assistance—and I am sorry, I don’t want to mispronounce your name—Ms. Sook, when you talked about the need 

for there to be foreign assistance and food and all in times when 

we are talking about cutting back. So I think the message is critically important. 

But, Ms. Sook, you were saying that you thought that we 

shouldn’t have discussions, negotiations with North Korea, but, at 

the same time, we should do what we can to, you know, deliver 

food and other things that the population would need. How do we 

do that? I understand the communication part, funding, but how 

would we get aid to people? How would we get aid to the people 

that need it? 

If Ms. Soon could answer it first, Ms. Soon or Ms. Sook, that 

would be great. 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. I would like to say that the world is supporting North Korea because they hear stories of people starving 

and suffering. But, as a North Korean defector, I believe that the 

regime of North Korea should be completely isolated, and that is 

the only way to change the regime. And unless North Korea adopts 

a market economy and changes drastically the way it—the way the 

country is run, nothing—no change will come. And, as a defector, 

I would like to say that real help would be for the Kim Jong Il reVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:21 Feb 23, 2012 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00040 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\AGH\092011\68443 HFA PsN: SHIRL
37

gime to be completely isolated and stop the aid that is being given 

to the regime. 

Ms. BASS. Weren’t you calling for something different? 

Ms. SCHOLTE. Actually, I agree, except I was just making the 

point that if we are going—I actually believe in a substantial 

amount of assistance but only if we can stay to the point of consumption. Because if the relief—if we send any amount of assistance to North Korea, it will be diverted. And when you talk to defectors, they never saw any food aid; and when you talk to defectors that serve in the military, they will tell you the World Food 

Programme rolls into town, delivers rice to these families. Right 

after they leave, the army comes back and takes it all back. 

In fact, there was a Dr. Norbert Vollertsen who testified some 

years ago about how he had gone to an orphanage and they had 

handed out cookies, and the kids just sat there with the cookie 

waiting for somebody to come back and take it away. 

So the diversion has been absolute; and, because of that, I think 

that that is the kind of a message that we could send that would 

be a very powerful message for positive propaganda, which is that 

we very much are concerned about the starvation and the political 

prisoner camps and the situation in North Korea. We want to help 

you. We hear about these stories. We want to help you, but we 

want to be sure that we are actually helping the people. And we 

are only going to give that aid if we know we can stay there. 

Even from the very beginning when the famine first started, 

North Korea put such stipulations on the food aid. They actually 

didn’t want—I have never heard of this before, but—I have never 

heard about this before—and challenge me on this—but I don’t 

think of any situation where there is a country where there was 

starvation, where the country that was the intended recipient of 

the aid demanded that the aid deliverers couldn’t speak their language. I don’t think that has ever happened in any place but North 

Korea. Because usually if you are going into a country to deliver 

aid, you are desperate for somebody who speaks the language. But 

that just speaks volumes about just from the very beginning of 

their intention to divert aid. 

So because of the difficulty of preventing aid from being diverted, 

that is why I say we should only provide aid if we can be there at 

the point of consumption. 

I could tell you all kinds of stories, but if we were to go in an 

orphanage and deliver formula, we have got to make sure those babies get that formula. Because Action Against Hunger did that, and 

that formula ended up in Pyongyang in the markets, and those babies were given watered-down goats’ milk when they showed up a 

month later to find out what happened to the tons of baby food it 

had delivered to that orphanage. That is just one example. 

But I think that—and then the second point I was making is 

that we should be looking at creative ways to get in information, 

like radio broadcasting but also through the balloon launches and 

also through the North Koreans that have defected that are sending in remittances into the country that are helping support their 

families. 

Ms. BASS. Thank you very much. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you. 

38

The chairman has returned, so I will give the chair back to him 

and hold any questions I have until a later time. 

Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. SMITH. I want to thank Ranking Member Payne for leading 

the committee. Again, I had to leave because a bill of mine on autism was on the floor; and it did pass, thankfully. 

Let me just ask a question, if I could, a few years back in 2002, 

in May, I chaired a hearing on North Korea human rights, one of 

several; and we had Dr. Norbert Vollertsen, a former medical doctor inside of North Korea, who actually was given a huge award 

by the dictatorship for his medical expertise and the fact that he 

helped cure a whole lot of people. But he also then told the truth 

about the human rights situation, and he said that they are using 

food as a weapon—talking about the dictatorship—against their 

own people. They are committing genocide, and I think we have to 

care. As an international community, we have to intervene. 

Ms. Scholte, would you say—that was in 2002—that the international community—and I heard in your opening comments that 

you had criticism that Bush did not focus on human rights nor did 

Bill Clinton in North Korea. We did pass the North Korea Human 

Rights Act. I was one of the cosponsors of that bill. Jim Leach was 

the prime sponsor. It was an excellent bill. Mr. Payne—all of us—

strongly supported it. Has that legislation lived up to its promise? 

Are we emphasizing human rights sufficiently in our dialogue or 

whatever it is of a dialogue with the North Koreans? 

Ms. SCHOLTE. I would say I have been actually very disappointed 

after all the hard work we did in getting the North Korea Human 

Rights Act passed. I have been very disappointed right from the 

very start. The Bush administration said we welcome these tools 

that you are giving us to help on this issue, but then they never 

really used those tools. 

The one thing it did help I know with radio broadcasting and expanding VOA and RFA support, which was really I believe as a result of that legislation, was a huge—one huge, great thing, factor, 

that happened with the radio broadcasting. That is so important, 

and also helping like Free North Korea Radio, some of the independent broadcasters. 

The other thing, though, too, is the special envoy position. I think 

it is very significant that President Obama has made it very clear 

that his special envoy, Robert King, will be part of all discussions 

and negotiation on North Korea. That was not the case during the 

Bush administration. Jay Lefkowitz was cut out. So I think that 

President Obama is taking greater advantage of that legislation to 

try to do more with the North Korean rights act just by the very 

nature of the way he has elevated Ambassador King’s position. 

On the comment you made about North Korea using food as a 

weapon, that is absolutely true. It uses food as a weapon against 

its own people, and they have an apartheid system in North Korea 

where people are classified based on loyalty to the regime. You 

have the elites. Then you have what they consider the wavering 

class, which is the class that is not considered to be completely 

loyal to the regime, and then you have got the hostile class. And 

if you are in the elites you may get white rice, but if you are down 

39

on that classification system, you may never see any rice your 

whole life. You may get corn. 

But the thing that has happened with the food is, because of the 

breakdown in the public distribution system which is how the regime rewarded people through this apartheid-type system based on 

loyalty, that system has broken down. That is why these markets 

are so significant, that you have over 200 markets, and these are 

just the ones we know—can identify by satellite. These are just the 

ones we know by satellite. There are probably many more markets. 

But that is how people are surviving. They are trading and selling 

and buying among themselves in these markets. 

Mr. SMITH. If either or both of our Kims could comment, Ms. Kim 

and Ms. Kim, on, one, the use of torture in the gulags. We have 

had testimony before this committee in the past that Christians 

and people of faith are even more selected out for repression especially, and women who are pregnant are often forcibly aborted in 

an absolutely crude—they get beaten around the abdomen and 

then miscarry. So it is a horrible thing. We had testimony of boards 

being put on women and soldiers or gulag security guards jumping 

on the boards on the abdomen of the pregnant women. 

Did you experience torture? And you mentioned how both of you, 

you saw littered bodies everywhere, that people were treated like 

animals. 

Ms. Kim, you said that, ‘‘A society where the whole country is a 

prison. A society where those who escaped the country in search of 

freedom were caught and imprisoned and executed and where 

those who have escaped become lost people and orphans in the 

international community. A society where chastity and virginity, 

which is more precious than life, is sold cheaper than the cheapest 

of things.’’ Of course talking about the scourge of human trafficking. If you could speak to the use of torture and these terrible 

and despicable atrocities being committed by the dictatorship. 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. In answer to your question, regarding my 

experience at Yoduk, before I was sent to Yoduk, during the 2 

months of interrogation, I was stuck in a room with no calendar, 

no clock, really a black hole for 2 months. And for somebody to 

come out of that and not go crazy, it is a miracle, and that is what 

I experienced. 

And in terms of actually being in Yoduk and my experience 

there, I saw violence—inmate-on-inmate violence. I was injured in 

my shoulder during work and also my fingers were injured during 

work. And in terms of torture, the violence, that is what I experienced during my prison experience at Yoduk prison camp. 

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Kim. 

Ms. KIM HYE SOOK. Regarding my experience, to answer your 

question, you could see in some of the drawings that I displayed 

what I went through. 

But at prison camp number 18 there was no paved road, and 

there were many times where the prison guards would force prisoners—would stop these prisoners walking back and forth from 

work within the camp. They would stop these prisoners, force them 

to open their mouths, and these prisoners would—these prison 

guards would spit—spit the phlegm into the mouths—open mouths 

of prisoners. They would tell them if you swallow it you will not 

40

be beaten, but if you throw up or resist you will be relentlessly 

beaten. 

I experienced that torture a total of times during my 28 years 

there. And in 2005—in 2005 when I—after I was released from 

camp and I was caught—I went into China, was caught and repatriated, during the detention period when I was going through that, 

I saw an incident where women who were also caught and repatriated were forced through repeated sitting and standing up action 

so that anything they were hiding in their uterus would fall out, 

hidden money or other contraband that the prison guards were trying to find. 

So that is the extent of the torture I witnessed from my time in 

North Korea. 

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Scarlatoiu, you indicate in your testimony that 

there is evidence that human rights abuses in North Korea are intensifying as the regime takes steps toward leadership succession. 

Could you speak further on that issue and perhaps some of the evidence that you have that suggests that? 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. Mr. Chairman, I should tell you that our organization has published one quite well-known report on the political 

prisoner camps in North Korea called Hidden Gulag. That happened in 2003. We are now in the process of putting together a second edition; and, toward that goal, we have collected testimony by 

at least about 60 former inmates of political prisoner camps. The 

difference between now and then is that we have had testimony 

from some guards. We have better satellite imagery. 

Based on such testimony, we seem to see intensified political repression, we seem to see a crackdown along the border with China, 

and all indications are that the new center nucleus of power being 

created around the third son of Kim Jong Il, around Kim Jong Un, 

is not composed of any type of reformists. We have all indications, 

including violent provocations against South Korea, violent military 

provocations, dispatching of assassins, intensified human rights 

violations in North Korea. We have all evidence that we are dealing with very hard-liners. 

Mr. SMITH. Let me ask a question with regards to Juche. I read 

a book some years back about the self-reliance religion and the cult 

of personality, the deification of Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung before him, and it was a very detailed, heavily footnoted book with 

how they brainwash the people of North Korea. And I am wondering if all of you might speak to this and especially the two 

Kims. How did they overcome this brainwashing effort? Do people 

in North Korea really regard Kim Jong Il as good? 

There was a National Geographic piece on recently, and I 

watched it with great interest. I watched it more than once. And 

a doctor went to North Korea to do some surgeries on the eye, and 

he was having phenomenal success teaching other doctors and 

practitioners in North Korea to do so. But I was astonished how 

the people who had been helped, especially at a group meeting, 

were looking at a picture of Kim Jong Il and thanking him and getting on their knees and worshiping him. 

And the intensity of it was quite unnerving, frankly, and I am 

wondering how they deny people information. They jam obviously 

outside broadcasts, but this brainwashing obviously starts from the 

41

moment a child can speak and talk and hear, I should say, and I 

am wondering how they overcame that. Was what we saw on that 

video true, that he is regarded as a god? 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. I would like to answer your question by 

saying that in North Korea from basically childbirth, from kindergarten on, little children are brainwashed into believing that Kim 

Il Sung, Kim Jong Il are capable of superhuman accomplishments 

and that there are not enough words to praise, not enough words 

in the world to praise Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, and they are 

so brainwashed that there is no room whatsoever in their minds to 

think otherwise in North Korea. 

And the people in North Korea, it is a situation where their 

minds have been replaced with a brainwashed mind, and there is 

no freedom to travel to countries where you need special colorcoded passes to travel to a particular place, and it is a nation—society where hands and feet are tied of the people so that they cannot 

travel or be free in that society. 

Ms. KIM HYE SOOK. To answer your question, from my experience, as soon as you are born in North Korea you are taught 

phrases: Thank you, dear leader; thank you, great leader. 

And one example I would like to give you, sir, is that in 2009 

when I escaped to China there was a woman with a young daughter who accompanied me, and the Chinese family that was helping 

us gave this starving child food, and the first words out of the 

child’s mouth when she received the food was, thank you, dear 

leader, Kim Jong Il. So that goes to show you the extent of the 

brainwashing. 

And in North Korea from the moment you are born until the day 

you die, thank you, dear leader, Kim Jong Il; thank you great leader, Kim Il Sung, those words are just brainwashed into the people’s 

minds. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. 

Just a few final questions and then—did you want—yes, Ms. 

Scholte. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. I just wanted to add one comment. That is one of 

the things about this whole idea——

There was a woman I met who had been a defector, and she had 

taught philosophy. So I casually asked her, oh, who is your favorite 

philosopher, you know, and she was like, oh, I only taught Kim Il 

Sungism and Marxism for the first 10 years of my career, and then 

for the last 10 years, just Kim Jong Ilism. And I said, well, when 

you got free to South Korea, did you pursue philosophy? And she 

said, no, I was afraid that my brain was too twisted to be able to 

understand that. 

And I thought the fact that she admitted that proved that it 

wasn’t, that she—her brain had opened up, but she was actually 

studying North Korean studies to figure out a way to help her 

country. 

But I want to say one of the programs that Free North Korea 

Radio is trying to do—and we are actually reaching out to the 

Christian churches to help us. We want to do a program explaining 

the concept of, you know, when we think of religious faith and selfsacrifice and helping others versus what they are brainwashed to 

believe, to try to help North Koreans kind of open them to underVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:21 Feb 23, 2012 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00045 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\AGH\092011\68443 HFA PsN: SHIRL
42

standing the concepts that we have got in the Western world, 

which is serving others and helping others, which is a complete opposite of everything that they are taught, which is they are the 

servants of the regime. 

That is one of the things that I think is really important, because 

the defectors know how to articulate those kinds of things. 

And another thing, too, there is an organization called the Coalition for North Korea Women’s Solidarity, and this is a coalition 

formed by North Korean women, most of whom were victims of 

trafficking. But the whole concept—when they first came to South 

Korea, the whole concept of human rights is completely alien to 

them, and you would believe that the social society is trying to say, 

well, that women are equal, but in North Korea women are treated 

horribly. So this is something that they are doing to help restore 

these women and teach them the value they are as human beings 

and the value they are as women. It is a very important program 

the defectors are taking. 

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Scarlatoiu. 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. I think that the brutal and ruthless dictators 

such as the Kims in North Korea and the cult of personality built 

around them depend by far and large on denying their citizens 

knowledge of alternative economic, social, and political systems. 

You have mentioned that Christians are subject to harsh punishment. We have also come across evidence that, among those North 

Korean defectors forcibly repatriated from China, those who have 

come in contact with Christian missionaries or South Koreans face 

particularly harsh punishment, in some cases amounting to public 

executions. Most likely the main reason beyond that is that both 

Christianity and South Korea present alternative systems. 

One great advantage that eastern Europeans had primarily 

through public broadcasting that they were receiving from the outside world was that it was clear to them that the capitalist, liberal 

democracies of the West were clearly the alternative; and I really 

think that we have an opportunity now to focus on improving the 

flow of information to North Korea, to persuade not only the overwhelming majority of North Koreans who are so oppressed but 

also, why not, the elites of North Korea, that there is life after the 

Kim regime and that alternatives are available. 

Mr. SMITH. Let me just make a note here that we have asked—

I have asked the administration in hearings and through other 

means to put China on Tier III for human trafficking, not only because of the horrific rise in sex trafficking in the People’s Republic 

of China among Chinese but also because if a North Korean woman 

thinks she has gotten to relative safety and freedom by crossing 

the border, she invariably is sold into human trafficking. And the 

Chinese Government doesn’t lift a single finger to mitigate her pain 

and to rescue her and to crack down on the traffickers who dot the 

border looking for women who are leaving that country. 

They also violate the Refugee Convention, and China is a signatory to the Refugee Convention, because they send back men and 

women who are most likely to be incarcerated in the gulag, if not 

executed, for leaving without permission. So China bears a huge responsibility for its enabling and complicity in the crimes of 

Pyongyang. 

43

Let me also ask just a final question: How would you rate the 

international community’s response, including the U.S., Europe, 

and especially the United Nations? There is a high commissioner 

for human rights. There is a whole rapporteur system. Obviously, 

they have not had access in most cases to North Korea. But there 

is also the Human Rights Council, which was supposed to speak 

truth to power regardless of the consequences and hold countries 

to account. 

Now, I frequently would, when it was a commission and now the 

Council, would ask the Council or commission to raise human 

rights in North Korea; and, frankly, there have been resolutions in 

the past. But it has struck me that they are almost like pro forma 

resolutions. They have low expectations. There is no sense of shock 

or dismay over what Kim Jong Il has been doing and his fellow dictators in Pyongyang. And there is that sense, you know, it is an 

obligatory chastisement and no one expects anything to change. 

And, because of those low expectations, that country in no way is 

held to account. 

So why is the international community so incredibly passive 

when it comes to what is equivalent to what the Nazis did in its 

gulags to its own people and to Jews and to others, which is going 

on current day in North Korea? If you could speak to that. 

And to the two Kims, finally, I was in South Korea recently, 

spoke to a number of lawmakers and others in Seoul, and I was 

kind of surprised—and maybe I am wrong in my impression—to 

glean from that experience that many people in South Korea don’t 

have the kind of understanding of the two Kims that have been 

brought to this committee, and that is what goes on in those gulags 

and the huge repression that is from womb to tomb by the dictatorship. The young people kind of trivialize it in South Korea. Is that 

true or is that a false impression that I picked up on that trip? ‘‘We 

know it is there, but it is not as bad.’’ And they just don’t seem 

to take it at face value for the huge atrocity that it is. 

So any of you who would like to speak to that. 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. Chairman Smith, regarding your first question, 

at the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, we are very 

familiar with the work and the reporting done by the U.N. special 

rapporteurs on the human rights situation in North Korea. Both 

the current rapporteur, Professor Marzuki Darusman from Indonesia, and the previous rapporteur, Professor Vitit Muntarbhorn 

from Thailand, are very dedicated scholars and very good human 

beings who have worked very hard to put together——

Mr. SMITH [continuing]. Has testified before our committee in the 

past. 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. We are aware of that, sir—so they have done 

extraordinary work to shed light on the atrocities and the human 

rights violations happening in North Korea. 

I think that organizations such as ours have a duty to inform the 

international community, to conduct research, to publish about the 

human rights violations happening in North Korea, and to engage 

in robust public information campaigns to inform the public here 

in the United States and beyond and also to inform North Koreans 

on the rights that they have but are being violated with such impudence. 

44

Ms. SCHOLTE. I was going to say that you mentioned China, and 

I would say that there is a direct correlation between the ability 

of the U.N. to do anything and China stymieing those efforts. 

And what you mentioned about the refugees, this is the most 

solvable human rights crisis that is going on in the world today. 

It could be solved overnight if China simply followed the treaties 

that it signed. The UNHCR has an office in Beijing. These refugees 

have a place to go. They are the only refugees I know in the world 

that—again, another thing that makes North Korea unique—that 

have a place to go. Because they are citizens under the South Korean constitution. And, of course, our North Korean Human Rights 

Act says that we will take some here, and people are willing to resettle them. 

So there is no reason for China to continue this brutal policy of 

repatriation that has caused 80 percent of North Korean women to 

be trafficked in this basically modern-day slave markets. 

And I believe you have a hearing tomorrow. One of the pressures 

on this is the fact that China has a shortage of women because 

they have been murdering unborn baby girls all these years. They 

have had this policy—one-child policy, and that has led to the 

shortage of women. So that is why young North Korean women 

that are vulnerable are being sold. 

But China is the reason why we can’t get more action at the 

United Nations, because they block efforts, when the Cheonan—everyone realized that North Korea had caused the death of these 

South Korean sailors, China was the one that was suppressing 

that, action on that. And so as long as you have a country like 

China have such tremendous influence on the U.N. that is involved 

in perpetrating these crimes that are happening in North Korea, 

you are not going to get any real action by the United Nations. 

Anyway, that is my—and I know you wanted to say something too. 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. I would like to add that the crimes 

against humanity committed by the Kim Jong Il regime is the 

worst in the world, and the United States needs to just totally isolate the regime of Kim Jong Il. The best way to go about prosecuting the crimes against humanity that Kim Jong Il has committed is to report him to the International Criminal Court. And 

I believe that the United States will be able to do a good job of 

leading an international movement work to make this—to bring 

about this work of bringing Kim Jong Il to the ICC, to the International Criminal Court. 

And I would just like to say again that as long as Kim Jong Il 

is, as long as he exists, the people suffering will continue. And I 

would like to just say once again that my earnest desire is that the 

United States will take the lead in helping the world, the entire 

world, focus on the important issue of—focusing on human rights 

issue and of isolating Kim Jong Il regime and to not provide any 

aid or help that will only go toward keeping the regime alive. 

Ms. KIM HYE SOOK. I also would like to point out, as I am sitting 

here before media and before the Congressman here, that regarding food aid, I would just like to point out that my younger sister 

and brother who are still in the prison camp, certainly all the food 

aid that has been given is not going to them, is not being sent to 

them, where the people that need it the most, the prisoners, the 

45

starving prisoners in prison would need the food aid the most, but 

it is only going to the elites, to the military or to the security apparatus in feeding them and empowering them, only giving them 

more life, more power, to continue the abuse that I drew, the drawings that you can see on display here. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. Also, the attitude in South Korea, right? You 

asked also about the attitude in South Korea? 

Mr. SMITH. South Korea, especially the young people. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. I definitely think they might have a comment 

about that. 

Mr. SMITH. It is almost like a sense of disbelief as to the scope 

and the cruelty of Kim Jong Il. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. This is so important. 

Mr. SMITH. Is it the media that has downplayed it? 

Ms. SCHOLTE. That is a huge issue. That is so important, because 

you would think that the country that should care the most has 

been the slowest to respond. The reason for that is during the 

years of the D.J. Kim government and the Roh government, they 

actually banned information to be reported about what was going 

on in North Korea because they had the sunshine policy, which is 

basically an engagement policy. And the award-winning documentary Seoul Train, which is still very popular today, for example, 

that was produced by some Americans about the refugee crisis in 

China—North Koreans escaping and the whole situation—that was 

banned from being shown in South Korea by the government. So 

there was a suppression of the horrors that were going on. 

They can tell you stories about—she wanted to speak before the 

South Korean Assembly but she wasn’t able to do it, Mrs. Kim. 

And what has happened, though, is—oh, she was going to speak 

before them, okay. And they can share that with you. But what 

happened is with the provocations that have happened against 

South Korea by North Korea, unprovoked attacks, there has been 

an awakening in South Korea. And I am very pleased to see a lot 

of young people being drawn to this issue. 

I have actually gone to a conference in 2002, an international 

conference on North Korea rights in Seoul, in which people like 

these defectors were going to speak, and there were students protesting against the conference. But that has changed a lot. Young 

people are really getting drawn to the issue. But it has been very 

difficult to move the hearts and souls of the Korean lawmakers. 

They still have not passed the North Korean Rights Act, which has 

been done by Japan and the United States, bipartisan. And that 

has been a real source of contention. 

Mr. SMITH. And it brings to mind after World War II, it was Eisenhower who said, ‘‘Do not burn down the concentration camps,’’ 

because there were some Germans who were in disbelief that they 

were real. And it seems to me that when it is an actual policy of 

a government to suppress the truth, there is something inherently 

wrong with that because it creates a distortion, a gross caricature 

of what Pyongyang is actually doing. 

And I hope this hearing, and it will be followed by additional 

hearings, will further the information. I mean, I was telling, or in 

conversations, conveying information about what I had read and 

what I had learned from hearings and from defectors that had—

46

and my friends who are South Korean with whom I was meeting, 

was met with disbelief as if somehow I was exaggerating or engaging in some kind of hyperbole, when the truth on the ground as you 

have so borne—so ably witness to is even worse than what we 

could imagine in terms of the cruelty and mistreatment. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. I just thought of something else I need to share 

with you. In October I was at a balloon launch. And I was with 

Kim Seong Min, Park Sang Hak, the North Korea People’s Liberation Front, we were getting ready to do a balloon launch. And there 

was a former North Korean defector who served in the military. 

And he was so upset because there were these leftist South Koreans trying to stop the balloon launch and saying they were pro-Kim 

Jong Il. And he was so upset and almost had tears in his eyes. And 

he was like, I came from that country, how can they deny the horrible things that I have seen? And I remember holding him saying, 

Well, we don’t want to get in a confrontation with them. And I said 

something like, I know how you feel. And I thought I don’t know 

how he feels. That people—that he could have gone through these 

horrible things and then have people denying it and trying to stop 

him from doing something to reach out to the people who are suffering. 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. I would just like to add what you said, 

Congressman Smith, about the people in South Korea, the young 

people to the politicians, not fully knowing or understanding or appreciating the situation in North Korea. She wholeheartedly concurs with that statement. And because of the strong presence of the 

leftist and the pro-North Korean elements in South Korean society, 

I believe that the peninsula is not ready for unification, South 

Korea is not ready to be unified with North Korea. And I would 

again like to ask for the United States to take the lead in increasing knowledge and awareness about the situation in North Korea 

and help lead other nations to be able to achieve this. And there 

are 23,000 North Korean defectors who have resettled in South 

Korea. 

And also there is a diaspora of North Korean defectors that are 

all over the world. And if there is any sort of encouragement, help, 

financial help, that is given to us, we will stop at nothing and we 

will dedicate our very lives to bring about change and the regime 

in North Korea. And you could trust me when I say that, Congressman Smith. 

Mr. SMITH. Well, Ms. Kim, I think your point about the leftists 

truly enabling by either suppressing or by denying that these atrocities are occurring, that makes them complicit in these crimes 

against humanity. And I would hope that clear-thinking people, 

newspapers, and other media in South Korea will just tell the truth 

about what is going on in North Korea because the truth is liberating. 

And I would also add my endorsement to what you said about 

Kim Jong Il and others being held to account for genocide at the 

International Criminal Court. They have committed barbaric 

crimes. And while there are some U.N. individuals who have spoken out, there has been no holding to account in any meaningful 

way. So I echo and endorse what you said. 

Mr. Payne. 

47

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you very much. I just have a quick question 

and I will make a little comment quickly. With the prospect of the 

anticipation that Kim Jong Il leaves and his son would take over, 

that is a horrible prospect but what do you see the consequence of 

something like that happening? 

Ms. KIM YOUNG SOON. I believe that Kim Jong Un will never be 

recognized or become the true leader in North Korea. But should 

he, or if he were to become the next leader, I believe that there is 

a chance that he might open up and reform the country from her 

point of view and her opinion. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you very much. I just want to comment that 

I think that in separated countries, like we see in Korea, the fact 

that much—in many instances the truth certainly is kept from the 

people in the south, the total truth, and it is difficult to know 

whose responsibility it is. Is it the government, is it the press, is 

it deliberate? 

One thing that usually happens in divided countries, as we saw 

in eastern and western Europe, although you can’t compare eastern 

Europe totally, certainly not to North Korea, but there was a 

strong move for reunification. It is just a natural nationalistic move 

to reunite countries that were once united. And so I could possibly 

understand why some of the younger people would be striving for 

unification, trying to, of course, have a change, a regime change in 

the north. So I think it is kind of just normal nationalism, especially a country that may have felt that it has been abused or exploited by world wars and things of that nature. 

The other thing I remember clearly as I traveled through eastern 

Europe in the late 1960s, and I went to Poland, Germany, and Russia with some west Europeans, and saw, especially in Poland, 

photos of and news reels of the films taken inside of Warsaw with 

the Warsaw ghetto uprisings. And these were young adults, my age 

at that time, who could not believe how brutal their parents were 

when they were leading the Nazi regime. And they were talking in 

their own language, but I could kind of understand what the internal discussion was going on about, is this true? Almost disbelief. 

So I think that as we move forward I have to work with educating 

people to overcome some of these natural things. 

I also think that we should try to become even more active in the 

Human Rights Council. There has been some progress made because before the U.S. joined the Council, when it was the committee before and then the Council, issues like what is happening 

in Syria, the brutality of Bishir on its people, some of the other 

issues, would never ever be raised. 

And so there have been—I think because the U.S. has raised the 

issues, they have got to deal with them. And that is why I think 

it is important for us to be in the room, so that there could be answers when our allies are criticized or resolutions continually come 

criticizing them. We can then now say, Well, wait a minute, let me 

give you the other point of view. 

So I do hope that those agencies will also be strengthened as we 

move. And then, of course, us not being a part of the Rome Statute, 

it makes us a little less significant in the ICC where we have difficulty pushing for indictments for war criminals who should be indicted and the cases should be raised. 

48

The final thing I would like to say is really commend the South 

Korean Government. Several years ago I visited in one of my trips 

to Ethiopia, there is a hospital that the South Korean Government 

built, probably the best hospital in sub-Saharan Africa just about. 

And they did it because they were appreciative of the Ethiopian 

soldiers who fought in the Korean War. And, actually, most stunning is that for those veterans who are still alive who served, they 

have been paying pensions to these Ethiopian soldiers ever since 

the end—or, I don’t know exactly if it started right at the end of 

the war, but for decades. And those that are still alive receive a 

monthly regular stipend from the Government of Korea. So I think 

that if some of the goodwill in southern Korea could kind of work 

its way up to the North, that would be a positive statement. 

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for calling this very important meeting—

hearing. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Payne. 

Just to conclude, I would like to ask unanimous consent that the 

testimony of Kim Seong Min, Director of Free North Korea Radio, 

be made part of the record. Without objection, so ordered. And I 

would ask that all members have 5 legislative days to revise and 

extend remarks. 

And I would just make one comment with regards to a related 

issue. I would like to comment on recent reports of the continued 

deportation of Chinese Falun Gong practitioners from South Korea 

to China. As is well known, the Pyongyang are brutally persecuted 

in China along with numerous other groups who attempt to exercise their internationally recognized human rights of freedom of 

thought, conscience, and religion. So I join my voice with that of 

other Members of Congress urging South Korea to recognize Falun 

Gong practitioners as refugees and not forcibly return them to 

China where they will certainly face persecution. 

South Korea should also find an appropriate means within the 

South Korean legal system and the International Conventions on 

Torture and Refugees that it has ratified to permit these Falun 

Gong practitioners to remain in South Korea. 

I would note that on Thursday the subcommittee will hear testimony on—it will be the 30th hearing on human rights abuses in 

China. It is entitled ‘‘China’s One-Child Policy: The Government’s 

Massive Crime Against Women and Unborn Babies.’’ And I mention this, especially in light of Suzanne Scholte and others. There 

is a nexus between the one-child-per-couple policy. There is a 

dearth of females in the PRC. Estimates range to in excess of 100 

million missing girls in China, so that when North Korean women 

make their way over the border, the traffickers are waiting to sell 

them into modern-day slavery and to sex trafficking. And China 

has not only not lifted a finger to stop it, they have enabled it. And 

it is attributable in part, maybe large part, to the one-child-percouple policy. 

We will hear from two victims of forced abortion who will tell 

their story. Chai Ling, the great Tiananmen Square activist who 

founded All Girls Allowed; Reggie Littejohn and Valerie Hudson 

who will speak about the military implications of the one-child-percouple policy. 

49

I do want to thank this very, very effective group of witnesses 

for shedding light on the egregious human rights abuses of Kim 

Jong Il. And thank you for bearing witness to the truth. 

We need to do much more than we have done. That goes for our 

subcommittee, the Congress, the executive branch and the free 

world. And again, I want to thank all of our witnesses, especially 

our two women who have made their way to the U.S., come a long 

distance, suffered, lost loved ones for speaking truth to a very totalitarian power. 

I would like to give the last word if any of our witnesses would 

like to say anything in conclusion. 

Ms. SCHOLTE. I was just going to announce that we are having 

at noon on Thursday, September 22nd, a protest. We are calling on 

people, wherever you are in the world, to go to the Chinese Embassy at noon to protest the repatriation of North Korean refugees. 

And we have petitions that people are delivering. And so far we 

have 25 cities and 13 countries that are participating. So I just 

wanted to mention that. 

Mr. SCARLATOIU. Mr. Chairman, I would like to tell you that in 

addition to one report that I have mentioned, that we have been 

working on on the political prisoner camps in North Korea, we are 

also working on a report on the circulation of information inside 

North Korea, and we will be happy to share these reports—as soon 

as they are published—with the subcommittee. 

Mr. SMITH. And we will disseminate it widely among the Members of Congress, so thank you. Thank you. The hearing is adjourned and thank you very much. 

[Whereupon, at 5:19 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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A P P E N D I X 

MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING RECORD

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MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD BY THE HONORABLE CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, 

A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, AND CHAIRMAN, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH, AND HUMAN RIGHTS


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