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i 

87–854 2014

[H.A.S.C. No. 113–91] 

HEARING 

ON

NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT 

FOR FISCAL YEAR 2015 

AND

OVERSIGHT OF PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED 

PROGRAMS 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

FULL COMMITTEE HEARING 

ON

FISCAL YEAR 2015 NATIONAL DEFENSE 

AUTHORIZATION BUDGET REQUEST 

FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY 

HEARING HELD 

MARCH 25, 2014 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS

HOWARD P. ‘‘BUCK’’ MCKEON, California, Chairman 

MAC THORNBERRY, Texas 

WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina 

J. RANDY FORBES, Virginia 

JEFF MILLER, Florida 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

FRANK A. LOBIONDO, New Jersey 

ROB BISHOP, Utah 

MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio 

JOHN KLINE, Minnesota 

MIKE ROGERS, Alabama 

TRENT FRANKS, Arizona 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

K. MICHAEL CONAWAY, Texas 

DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado 

ROBERT J. WITTMAN, Virginia 

DUNCAN HUNTER, California 

JOHN FLEMING, Louisiana 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

E. SCOTT RIGELL, Virginia 

CHRISTOPHER P. GIBSON, New York 

VICKY HARTZLER, Missouri 

JOSEPH J. HECK, Nevada 

JON RUNYAN, New Jersey 

AUSTIN SCOTT, Georgia 

STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

RICHARD B. NUGENT, Florida 

KRISTI L. NOEM, South Dakota 

PAUL COOK, California 

JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma 

BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio 

JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana 

BRADLEY BYRNE, Alabama 

ADAM SMITH, Washington 

LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

MIKE MCINTYRE, North Carolina 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania 

SUSAN A. DAVIS, California 

JAMES R. LANGEVIN, Rhode Island 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

JIM COOPER, Tennessee 

MADELEINE Z. BORDALLO, Guam 

JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut 

DAVID LOEBSACK, Iowa 

NIKI TSONGAS, Massachusetts 

JOHN GARAMENDI, California 

HENRY C. ‘‘HANK’’ JOHNSON, JR., Georgia 

COLLEEN W. HANABUSA, Hawaii 

JACKIE SPEIER, California 

RON BARBER, Arizona 

ANDRE ́ CARSON, Indiana 

CAROL SHEA-PORTER, New Hampshire 

DANIEL B. MAFFEI, New York 

DEREK KILMER, Washington 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas 

TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois 

SCOTT H. PETERS, California 

WILLIAM L. ENYART, Illinois 

PETE P. GALLEGO, Texas 

MARC A. VEASEY, Texas 

ROBERT L. SIMMONS II, Staff Director 

JOHN WASON, Professional Staff Member 

MIKE CASEY, Professional Staff Member 

JULIE HERBERT, Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF HEARINGS 

2014 

Page 

HEARING: 

Tuesday, March 25, 2014, Fiscal Year 2015 National Defense Authorization 

Budget Request from the Department of the Army .......................................... 1 

APPENDIX: 

Tuesday, March 25, 2014 ........................................................................................ 51 

TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2014 

FISCAL YEAR 2015 NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION BUDGET 

REQUEST FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY 

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS 

McKeon, Hon. Howard P. ‘‘Buck,’’ a Representative from California, Chairman, Committee on Armed Services .................................................................. 1 

Smith, Hon. Adam, a Representative from Washington, Ranking Member, 

Committee on Armed Services ............................................................................ 2 

WITNESSES 

McHugh, Hon. John M., Secretary of the Army .................................................... 4 

Odierno, GEN Raymond T., USA, Chief of Staff, U.S. Army ............................... 8 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

McHugh, Hon. John M., joint with GEN Raymond T. Odierno .................... 55 

DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

[There were no Documents submitted.] 

WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING THE HEARING: 

Mr. Enyart ........................................................................................................ 93 

Mr. Wilson ......................................................................................................... 93 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING: 

Mr. Barber ......................................................................................................... 104 

Ms. Bordallo ...................................................................................................... 102 

Mr. Brooks ......................................................................................................... 112 

Mr. Conaway ..................................................................................................... 103 

Mr. Cook ............................................................................................................ 115 

Mr. Gibson ......................................................................................................... 110 

Dr. Heck ............................................................................................................ 111 

Mr. Langevin ..................................................................................................... 100 

Mr. LoBiondo .................................................................................................... 101 

Mr. Loebsack ..................................................................................................... 102 

Mr. Maffei ......................................................................................................... 108 

Mr. McKeon ....................................................................................................... 97 

Mr. Nugent ........................................................................................................ 113 
Page

IV 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING—Continued 

Ms. Shea-Porter ................................................................................................ 107 

Mr. Smith .......................................................................................................... 98 

Mr. Wilson ......................................................................................................... 99 
(1) 

FISCAL YEAR 2015 NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION BUDGET REQUEST FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF 

THE ARMY 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES, Washington, DC, Tuesday, March 25, 2014. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:09 a.m., in room 

2118, Rayburn House Office Building, Howard P. ‘‘Buck’’ McKeon 

(chairman of the committee) presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. HOWARD P. ‘‘BUCK’’ MCKEON, 

A REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

The CHAIRMAN. Committee will come to order. 

I want to thank you for joining us today as we consider the fiscal 

year 2015 budget request for the Department of the Army. 

Secretary McHugh, General Odierno, thank you for being here. 

Our Nation is very fortunate to have both of you in your positions 

at this time. 

General Abrams, who was the 26th Army Chief of Staff, had a 

quote in regards to our failure to properly maintain the Army after 

World War II, and the negative consequences that resulted in the 

early days of the Korean War, and I quote: ‘‘We paid dearly for unpreparedness during those early days in Korea with our most precious currency, the lives of our young men. The monuments we 

raise to their heroism and sacrifice are really surrogates for the 

monuments we owe ourselves for our blindness to reality, for our 

indifference to real threats to our security, and our determination 

to deal in intentions and perceptions, for our unsubstantiated wishful thinking about how war would not come.’’ 

It seems to me that we are ignoring the lessons of history. Based 

on what we know about this budget, the continued impacts of sequestration, and General Odierno’s testimony during the Strategic 

Choices Management Review hearing last fall, the Army is being 

forced down a path where it will be unable to fulfill its title 10 

requirements. 

General Odierno has already told us that the Army can meet the 

Nation’s defense strategy with an Army comprised of 450,000 Active, 335,000 National Guard, and 195,000 Reserve forces. But to 

do so would be a fairly high risk. However, based on sequestration, 

the Army isn’t heading toward those numbers. They are actually 

heading towards 420,000 Active, 315,000 Guard, and 185,000 Reserve. That is 60,000 less. 

The defense strategy, reaffirmed in the Quadrennial Defense Review [QDR], assumes that future conflicts will involve limited sta-
2 

bility operations, involve minimal casualties, and assume significant troop contributions from our partner countries. Therefore, the 

Department does not have the size of the Army for long-duration 

land wars. I worry that the Department is justifying its deep cuts 

to the Army based on this set of unrealistic assumptions. 

We can look to every major land conflict we have been involved 

in to know that we are usually wrong. And we have seen how deep 

cuts to our defense capabilities, especially the Army, can result in 

dire consequences. I fear that we as a nation are heading down 

that path that General Abrams was referring to. Wishful thinking 

is not a strategy to pin our force structure decisions upon. 

I hope these sobering remarks remind us to not lose sight of our 

shared values and the vital importance of reversing the dangerous 

budget trajectory. I look forward to your testimony here today. 

Mr. Smith. 

STATEMENT OF HON. ADAM SMITH, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 

WASHINGTON, RANKING MEMBER, COMMITTEE ON ARMED 

SERVICES 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Secretary McHugh and General Odierno, for testifying before us today and for your outstanding service to our 

country. 

The chairman correctly lays out the budget challenges that you 

face; indeed, the entire DOD [Department of Defense] and much of 

our country faces. It is great that we were able to get a budget 

agreement at the end of last year that gave us some appropriations 

numbers and bills for fiscal year 2014 and fiscal year 2015. That 

certainly was an improvement over government shutdowns and 

continuing resolutions and constant uncertainty. But the challenges are still great. 

First of all, those numbers for fiscal year 2015 are very tight. We 

all must remember that a little over 2 years ago, the Department 

of Defense came together, looked at the next 10 years and said, you 

know, ‘‘What are the challenges we face? What is a realistic look 

at what the budget should be?’’ and built a strategy around that 

budget. 

That strategy, I believe, had 490,000 contemplated to be within 

the Army, and a whole bunch of other strategy decisions. It was 

difficult. Perhaps not ideal. But, it was a strategy that most people 

in the Department of Defense felt could be implemented. Well, 

since that time, that strategy has been blown up by further budget 

cuts, by sequestration, by government shutdowns, and all that. And 

you have had to scramble again to try figure that out. 

Make no mistake about it. Everybody on this committee should 

know that this is not the budget that the President or you would 

want. You have been forced into it by the size of the budget that 

has been passed by Congress, both in terms of fiscal year 2014 and 

fiscal year 2015, and then even more dire, what could happen if the 

8 years of sequestration that are still on the books actually happen. 

So, the budget you have put together has reflected the numbers 

that you have been forced to live with. In fact, the President has 

even gone so far as to send up an additional $52 billion and sort 

of $56 billion that says, ‘‘This is what I would like to spend. Half 
3 

of that was for defense to show the areas where we would like to 

be able to spend more money.’’ They put offsets in to cover the cost 

of that; offsets which I realize Congress probably will not accept, 

but the challenge remains. 

Here is the amount of money more we would like to spend. If we 

on this committee want to spend it, find the offsets. Find the offsets, make it work, and spend that extra money. If you don’t, we 

have to live with the numbers that we have, and there are very few 

Members of this Congress who would say that those numbers are 

ideal or even workable, but it is what you have to live with. 

And that is what gets you to the decisions that you have made 

in this budget. And I believe that the decisions are sound. They are 

certainly controversial. When you look at what is going on with the 

Guard and Reserve, that is controversial. Bringing the size of the 

force down to 440,000 or 450,000 is controversial. Many of the 

changes that you have made in terms of your air support, in terms 

of the helicopters, are going to be controversial, but they fit within 

the budget and they make sense within that budget. 

And as I have said many times in this hearing, I would urge everybody here, if you don’t like those cuts, offer alternatives; offer 

alternatives or give them more money. The giving them more 

money part does not seem likely for a variety of different reasons 

which I won’t get into this morning, but if we are stuck with that 

cap number, it is not enough for this committee to rail against the 

cuts that have been proposed in this budget. We have to offer alternatives. It is literally a zero-sum game. And I think the Department of the Army, the Department of Defense have looked long and 

hard at that, and come up with reasonable choices to make that 

work. 

Now, the final thing I will say about this is what I really believe 

makes those choices reasonable, is as the chairman alludes to, the 

worst the thing that we can do is ask the men and women serving 

in our Army to perform a task that we do not equip and train them 

to do. That is what a hollow force is. No matter the size of the 

force, if they are not equipped and trained, they are not ready, and 

it is a dereliction of our duty to prepare them. So, set the size but 

make sure they are trained and equipped to perform the task that 

we ask them to do. 

If we do not accept some of the reasonable cuts that are put in 

place here, if we insist on higher numbers in all of these places, 

that gives us the very real possibility of having that hollow force. 

The force will be bigger, the Guard and Reserve will be bigger. 

There will be certain pet programs that are important to people 

that won’t be cut, but where will that money be made up? That 

money will be made up in readiness. That money will be made up 

in less maintenance, less equipment, and less training. So we will 

have a larger force that is not prepared to fight, and that is the 

worst dereliction of duty that we can have. 

So I would urge us to, you know, live with the budget we have 

got and make sure that the men and women serving in the Army 

have the training and equipment that they need to perform whatever task it is that we decide that they are going to do. 

I do not for a moment think that we absolutely have to just totally accept the budget that you are giving us. I am sure there are 
4 

places where other savings can be found. It is the duty of this committee to take a look at that and try to find those, and I hope that 

we will, but the committee is not doing its duty if we just say don’t 

cut this and don’t offer an alternative. 

So, I think this hearing this morning is incredibly important as 

we sift through those tough choices and try to figure out, are they 

the correct ones, and if not, in this zero-sum game that we are living in, what are the correct cuts that need to be made? 

So again, I thank both Secretary McHugh and General Odierno, 

in general, for your fantastic service, but in particular, for the extraordinarily difficult set of circumstances that you have had to 

wrestle with in putting together this budget. 

I look forward to the testimony and the questions. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Mr. Secretary. 

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN M. MCHUGH, SECRETARY OF THE 

ARMY 

Secretary MCHUGH. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Smith, distinguished members 

of the committee, I deeply appreciate this, now the fifth, opportunity I have had to come before this committee as Secretary, and 

as in the past to discuss with you the truly incredible work of our 

soldiers, our civilian leaders of this past year, and the current state 

of America’s Army. 

And equally important, the uncertain and perilous times that 

should lie ahead, should the vital requirements in our budget request not be approved. I need to be very clear up front. The time 

for action is now. We must have this budget to properly restructure, to reduce and revamp our force, and quite frankly, we need 

it to protect your Army as we march on a dangerous and unpredictable future. 

This year and next may very well decide the fate of the world’s 

greatest combat force, and could have implications for both our Nation’s as well as the world’s security for many years to come. 

As this committee knows so full well, the cuts we have endured 

under the Budget Control Act [BCA] and sequestration, as have 

been mentioned already, have damaged significantly our readiness, 

drastically reduced our modernization programs, and demanded 

sharp cuts to our end strength. 

These, coupled with the significant shortfall in the 2013 OCO 

[Overseas Contingency Operations] funding caused your Army to 

enter this year with a $3.2 billion hole in readiness alone. Moreover, although the bipartisan budget agreement did indeed provide 

some temporary relief, we are still implementing a $7.7 billion cut 

to our fiscal year 2014 budget request, and to meet our top line requirements, we have had to cut another $12.7 billion from our 2015 

submission. 

In order to protect current operations, our combat power, as well 

as our soldiers and our families, we have been forced to make extremely hard choices in this budget; choices that impact every component, affect every camp, post, and station, and limit nearly every 

modernization and investment program. 
5 

Trust me, this is not what we wanted. It is not what your Army, 

I think, deserves. But it is what we have had to do to preserve 

America’s land power in such an austere fiscal environment, as 

constructed by the dictates approved in law. 

Nevertheless, in spite of turbulent funding and tremendous 

change, this past year has been one of great transition, transformation, and triumph for your Army; not just here at home, but 

around the globe as well. The resiliency, agility, and determination 

of our warriors has been nothing short of amazing. From intense 

combat to counterterrorism in retrograde to humanitarian relief, 

disaster assistance, and regional engagement, your soldiers and civilians from every component, Active, National Guard, and Reserve, have seen unprecedented success, saved countless lives, promoted freedom and democracy in some 150 nations around the 

world. 

In Afghanistan, the Army continued to fight insurgents and terrorists as we transitioned into a training and support role, helping 

to set conditions for elections in April and an appropriate withdrawal in December. 

Simultaneously, we continued one of the largest retrograde operations in our Nation’s history—returning or removing or demilitarizing some 580,000 pieces of equipment in just the past 12 

months alone. We plan to retrograde over $10.2 billion of the 

Army’s $15.5 billion in equipment currently there. 

As we continue to fight in one theater, we also expanded our regional alignments, conducting dozens of engagements with partners 

around the world, from the rebalance to the Pacific to exercises in 

Africa, South America, and Europe, our soldiers demonstrated their 

global responsiveness, reassured our allies, and deterred would-be 

aggressors. 

In the Pacific, the Army remained a cornerstone of support with 

some 80,000 Active and Reserve soldiers available to conduct operations. We have assigned 1st Corps to PACOM [United States Pacific Command] to provide a rapidly deployable joint headquarters, 

maintained a THAAD [Terminal High Altitude Area Defense] battery in Guam to provide theater missile defense, and conducted 28 

large-scale exercises with 13 different countries. 

Elsewhere, we conducted over 70 engagements with partners in 

Africa, participated in multilateral exercises with NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization], and deployed teams from the Georgia 

Army National Guard to serve several Central and South American 

countries. 

We supported stability in the Middle East, with over 4,300 soldiers participating in Operation Spartan Shield, as well as 2,200 

taking part in 7 exercises, including the deployment of key elements of the 1st Armored Division to Jordan. 

Simultaneously, as our forces perform vital missions around the 

world, the Army began a major transformation to reorganize our 

brigade combat teams, accelerate end strength reductions, and cut 

our headquarters staff. All designed to protect critical readiness 

and seek more balance under these budget times. 

In June, we announced the elimination of 12 brigade combat 

teams so that we could reorganize and strengthen those that remain. In September, we announced a 2-year acceleration of our 
6 

drawdown to reach 490,000 Active, 350,000 Guard, and 202,000 

Army Reserve soldiers by the end of 2015, with the vast majority 

of those cuts being taken from the Active forces. 

In the summer, we conducted a comprehensive review in coordination with DOD and directed the reduction of headquarters personnel by up to 25 percent across the force. As we continue to retrograde, restructure, and reduce, we also continue our transition to 

decisive action training, replacing our recent focus on counterinsurgency. Unfortunately, due to severe cuts in fiscal year 2013, we 

were forced to cancel seven combat training center rotations and 

significantly reduce home station training. 

Although we ensured deploying units were fully trained, sequestration cuts directly impacted the training, readiness, and leader 

development of more than two divisions worth of soldiers. 

Moreover, in fiscal year 2014, even under the temporary relief 

provided by the BBA [Balanced Budget Act], the Army will not be 

able to train a sufficient number of brigades and meet unforeseen 

strategic requirements, and currently can provide only a limited 

number of BCTs [brigade combat teams] trained for decisive action. 

Although readiness levels will increase through this year and in 

2015, the looming sequestration return in fiscal year 2016 will 

quickly erode these gains. 

Finally, I would be remiss if I did not mention the extraordinary 

burden our civilian employees have faced over the past year with 

pay freezes and furloughs. Although our fiscal 2014 appropriation 

bought some much needed relief, I fear we have yet to see the true 

impacts of these cuts on their morale and on their retention. 

Looking back, it has been a tumultuous year, but it is still clear 

now more than ever we must have predictable long-term funding 

that supports deliberate planning and responsible actions, and for 

that, we need your help, we need your leadership. 

Our fiscal year 2015 budget request reflects the challenging fiscal 

times in which we live by making the hard strategic choices now. 

It contains difficult decisions to further reduce end strength, realign our aviation assets, prioritize near-term readiness, and protect soldier and family programs. 

We do much of this by taking calculated risk in modernization 

and facilities programs. There is no question, this budget is lean, 

it could be described as stark and it is critical to meet the needs 

of our Nation and its soldiers. 

In this request, we will begin further reductions to our end 

strength, reaching 450,000 Active, 335,000 Guard, 195,000 Reserve 

soldiers by the end of fiscal 2017. It is important to know, we are 

also adjusting our force mix in favor of the Reserve Component. 

This is the maximum end strength we can afford to protect readiness and the minimum we need to execute the 2012 Defense Strategic Guidance. 

Nevertheless, this is clearly not without risk. Members, we must 

restructure our aviation portfolio. We recognize this is controversial, but in our view, there is simply no choice. The money is gone, 

and we must balance these vital assets in a way that maximizes 

our readiness and minimizes costs across all components. This initiative will generate savings by reducing our total number of plat-
7 

forms and—from seven to four. We will divest the older, less capable Kiowa and TH–67 trainers in favor of Apaches and Lakotas. 

In support, the Guard will transfer their low-density, high-demand Apache attack helicopters to the Active Army, and in return 

will receive 100 of our most modern Black Hawks, which are ideal 

for their dual combat and State support role. We will transfer all 

Active Army Lakota to training mission at Fort Rutger, and buy an 

additional 100 for that fleet. And at current funding levels, the 

Guard will be able to retain all of its Lakotas. 

This is the right thing to do. 

It allows us to better sustain and modernize more capable fleet 

across all components and significantly reduce its sustainment 

costs. Once again, as in end strength, the vast majority of cuts 

from aviation, a total of 86 percent, come from the Active Army. 

Overall, the Guard’s fleet was declined by just 8 percent, while the 

Active force declines by some 23 percent. 

At its core, our Army is its people. We are committed to protecting effective soldier, civilian, and family programs, and where 

appropriate, adding resources, and in fact, we increased funding by 

nearly 46 percent across a myriad of programs associated with 

Ready and Resilient Campaign. 

From a preservation and prevention of all of our soldier concerns, 

ending sexual assault and sexual harassment, to suicide prevention, to transition assistance and comprehensive soldier and family 

fitness, we are determined to meet the needs of our warriors, employees, and their families. 

We have a sacred covenant with all who serve and all who support them, and will do everything within our power not to break 

that. 

To protect readiness and support our force structure reductions 

we take prudent risk in our research, development and acquisition 

of facilities accounts. We have been forced to make significant 

changes to key programs. For example, we will conclude the 

Ground Combat Vehicle program after the technology development 

phase as the program is no longer affordable under budget constraints, and instead, we will focus on modernizing and sustaining 

legacy systems such as Bradley and Stryker through incremental 

upgrades. 

Regarding our facilities, our budget is just 49 percent of our fiscal year 2014 MILCON [military construction] appropriation. We 

are deferring some 20 percent of projects across all components 

with again, the majority of those delays coming in the Active Army. 

Let me take a moment to mention BRAC [Base Closure and Realignment]. And I know it is not popular. As a member, I had a 

base in my district close due to BRAC. It is hard. I know that. But 

it was necessary then, and it is even more necessary now. But it 

is simply, we can’t afford to pay for the maintenance and upkeep 

of unused or unnecessary facilities. It wastes money we just don’t 

have. 

So that is some of the issues that we have before us, my former 

colleagues. I want to close by again stating how much all of us appreciate all you have done, the relief provided under the Balanced 

Budget Act for 2014, and 2015, but if sequestration—as is the 

law—returns in 2016 our gains will erode and another round of in-
8 

discriminate cuts will gut our force to the point that we will be unable to meet the strategic guidance. 

As I opened with, we deeply—perhaps more so than in any other 

recent time—need your leadership and need your help. This is the 

time for protection and predictability, not politics. I have been associated with this committee for the better part of 20 years. It has 

continuously without interruption been an honor, as it always is, 

to be with you. 

And I would be remiss, Mr. Chairman, as a classmate, if I failed 

to mention in this—at least for the United States Army—your final 

posture hearing, how much I have enjoyed your wise guidance, 

your leadership, and some 21 years of friendship, and I wish you 

all the best, my friend. 

Thank you, and I yield back. 

[The joint prepared statement of Secretary McHugh and General 

Odierno can be found in the Appendix on page 55.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

General. 

STATEMENT OF GEN RAYMOND T. ODIERNO, USA, CHIEF OF 

STAFF, U.S. ARMY 

General ODIERNO. Thank you Chairman McKeon, Ranking Member Smith, other distinguished members of the committee. 

I want to start out where the Secretary left off. I want to thank 

you, Chairman, for all that you have done. For all your 22 years 

here serving and what you have done for the Army and our soldiers. You have been a steadfast leader here in this committee and 

we appreciate everything that you have done for us. And we continue to—we know we will continue to work with you for several 

more months and we look forward to that. 

Although resources continue to decline, the reality is that the demand for Army forces continues to increase. More than 70,000 U.S. 

Army soldiers are deployed today on contingency operations, and 

about 85,000 soldiers are forward stationed in nearly 150 countries, 

including nearly 20,000 on the Korean peninsula. 

As we can consider the future roles and missions of our Army, 

it is imperative that we consider the world as it exists, not as one 

we wish it to be. The recent headlines alone—Russia’s annexation 

of Crimea, the intractable Syrian civil war, missile launches by 

North Korea, just to name a few, remind us of the complexity and 

uncertainty inherent in the international security environment. It 

demands that we make prudent decisions about the future capability and capacity that we need within our Army. 

As part of the joint force, the Army deters potential adversaries 

by being capable of appropriate and rapid response anywhere in 

the world, and across the entire range of military operations from 

humanitarian assistance and stability operations to general war. 

Last year, I testified that we can implement a 2012 Defense Strategic Guidance at moderate risk with an end strength of 490,000 

in the Active Army; 350,000 in the National Guard; and 202,000 

in the U.S. Army Reserve. I stand by that assessment. 

We will achieve those end strength targets by the end of fiscal 

2015; however, the law of the land is sequestration. Therefore, in 

order to attain the proper balance between end strength, readiness, 
9 

and modernization by the end of sequestration we will have to dramatically slash end strength again beginning in fiscal 2016. This 

is in no way by choice. We will be required to further reduce the 

Active Army end strength to 420,000; reduce the National Guard 

to 315,000; the U.S. Army Reserve to 185,000. 

The size of our Army at this level of funding will not allow us 

to execute the Defense Strategic Guidance, and in my opinion, puts 

in doubt our ability to execute even one prolonged, multi-phase 

major contingency operation. 

I also have deep concerns that, if the Army goes to the end 

strength levels required by sequestration, we will not have the appropriate capacity to meet operational commitments and simultaneously train to sustain appropriate readiness levels across the 

total Army. 

The President’s budget submission supports end strength levels 

at 440,000 to 450,000 in the Active Army; 335,000 in the Army National Guard; and 195,000 in the U.S. Army Reserve. I believe this 

should be the absolute floor for end strength reductions. At this 

level, we can meet the Defense Strategic Guidance but as we continue to lose end strength, our flexibility deteriorates. 

My experience tells me that our assumptions on the duration of 

conflict and requirement about length and size, especially if phase 

four operations, are optimistic, and if these assumptions are wrong 

our risk grows significantly. 

For the next 3 to 4 years, we are reducing end strength as quickly as possible while still meeting our operational commitments. As 

we continue to draw down and restructure into a smaller force, the 

Army will continue to have degraded readiness and extensive modernization program shortfalls. This will cause us to implement a 

tiered readiness as a bridging strategy. 

Also, our research, development, acquisition funding, which has 

declined 39 percent since the fiscal year 2012 budget planning 

cycle, will continue to suffer. At the end of fiscal year 2019, under 

sequestration, we will stabilize our end strength and force structure. The Army will begin to establish the appropriate balance between end strength, readiness, and modernization, albeit for a 

much smaller army. 

From fiscal year 2020 to fiscal year 2023, we begin achieving our 

readiness goals and reinvesting in modernization programs to upgrade our aging fleets. Under the President’s budget, this will happen 3 to 5 years earlier, in fiscal year 2018, at larger total force 

levels. 

In order to meet the reductions imposed by sequestration and 

achieve the right balance, we have worked for the past 2 years on 

a total force policy that ensures the proper balance for the Active, 

Guard, and Reserve components. 

In developing our plan, we looked to the Secretary of Defense’s 

guidance that we not retain structure at the expense of readiness. 

Additionally, the Secretary of the Army and I directed that cuts 

should come disproportionately from the Active force before reducing the Guard and Reserve. 

Our total force policy was informed by the lessons learned during 

the last 13 years of war. We considered operational commitments, 

future requirements, costs, and necessary readiness levels. The re-
10 

sult is a plan that recognizes the unique attributes, responsibilities, 

and complementary nature of these three components, while ensuring our Guard and Reserves are maintained as an operational, and 

not a strategic, reserve. 

Budget cuts, to include full sequestration, result in a reduction 

of 150,000 soldiers, 687 aircraft, and up to 46 percent of the brigade combat teams reduction from the Active Army. The National 

Guard would be reduced by 43,000 soldiers, 111 aircraft, and up to 

22 percent of its brigade combat teams. And the U.S. Army Reserve 

would reduce by 20,000 soldiers. 

The end strength cuts to the Active Army represent 70 percent 

of the total end strength reductions, compared with 20 percent 

from the National Guard and 10 percent from the U.S. Army Reserve. This results in that the Guard and Reserves will now comprise 54 percent of the total Army end strength, while the Active 

Component will comprise 46 percent. The Army will be the only 

service in which the Reserve Component outnumbers the Active 

Component. 

Under sequestration, we cannot afford our current aviation structure. The budget does not allow us to sustain modernization programs, keep current structure levels, and provide trained and 

ready aviation crews in units across all three components. Therefore, we have developed an innovative concept to restructure our 

aviation fleet that will properly address all three of these issues. 

Overall, we believe this plan will generate a total savings of 

$12.7 billion over the POM [program objective memorandum]. Of 

the 798 total aircraft reduced under this plan, 687 of these aircraft 

comes out of the Active Component, or 86 percent, and 111 aircraft, 

or 14 percent, from the National Guard. As with end strength, we 

are disproportionately taking cuts from the Active Component over 

the Guard and Reserves. 

Also under this plan, the National Guard will gain 111 U–860s. 

Additionally, the National Guard will maintain their current fleet 

of 212 LUH–72s. The Army National Guard will transfer low-density, high-demand AH–64 Apache helicopters to the Active Army, 

where they will be teamed with unmanned systems for armed reconnaissance role, as well as their traditional TAC [theater aviation command] role. 

This plan allows us to eliminate obsolete airframes, while improving the modernization of our remaining fleet. It will also ensure that we are restructured to sustain an adequate level of pilot 

proficiency across the entire force. This will result in an Active-Reserve Component aviation force mix with better and more capable 

formations, which are able to respond to contingencies at home and 

abroad. 

Let me be very clear. Whether it be end strength, modernization 

reductions, restructuring of the Army, these are not necessarily 

cuts we want to take. However, these are cuts we must take based 

on sequestration. I believe our recommendation delivers the best 

total Army for the budget allocated. 

The Secretary and I understand that the American people expect 

our Army to consistently demonstrate a commitment to our core 

values and promote ethical leadership. We are aggressively and 
11 

comprehensively tackling this issue across the board individually, 

organizationally, and through systematic reviews. 

We have initiated 360-degree assessments on all officers, especially commanders. We have implemented a new officer evaluation 

report which strengthens accountability. For our general officers, 

we conduct periodic surveys, organize 18 annual senior leader seminars, and developed a specific ethics focus as part of our Army 

senior leader development program. 

We continue to make progress on combating sexual assault and 

harassment, particularly on reporting and investigating these incidents. It remains our top priority. Over the past year, the Army 

has established more stringent screening criteria and background 

checks for those serving in positions of trust, expanded the special 

victim capability program, and implemented new procedures to enhance pre-trial investigations. Our prosecution and conviction rates 

continue to increase. But we know that much work remains. We 

appreciate the continued focus by Members of Congress on this 

issue. We take it very, very seriously. 

We would also appreciate help from members of this committee 

with two issues that directly impact our ability to maintain the 

right balance for our Army. First, the Base Realignment and Closure process is a proven, fair, cost-effective means to address excess 

installation capacity in our United States Armed Forces. With a reduction of over 200,000 men and women from our Army, we must 

reduce excess infrastructure. We need BRAC to do this. If not, we 

will have to pay for the sustainment of unnecessary infrastructure 

throughout our Army. 

Second, we are also extremely grateful for the high-quality care 

and compensation our Nation has provided to our soldiers. We have 

endorsed proposals that we believe continues to recognize the incredible service of our soldiers, while helping us to better balance 

future investments in readiness, modernization, and compensation. 

We all must keep in mind that it is not a matter of if but when 

we will deploy our ground forces to defend this great nation of ours. 

We have done it every decade since World War II. 

It is incumbent on all of us to ensure we have the capacity and 

capabilities to ensure our soldiers are highly trained, equipped, and 

organized. If we do not, they will bear the heavy burden of our miscalculations. 

I am incredibly proud to wear this uniform representing the Active Component, the National Guard, and the U.S. Army Reserve. 

They have all sacrificed incredibly over the last 12 or 13 years and 

will continue to incredibly sacrifice into the future. It is incumbent 

on us to make sure we provide them the tools necessary for them 

to be successful. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the entire committee for allowing me to testify here today. I look forward to your 

questions. 

[The joint prepared statement of General Odierno and Secretary 

McHugh can be found in the Appendix on page 55.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, both of you, for your 

statements. As I said in my opening statement, any suggestion that 

this budget supports an Active Duty Army of 450,000 soldiers is a 

smoke screen because it suggests that, it assumes that sequestra-
12 

tion gets resolved. The fact of the matter is that the Army, as you 

have laid out, is heading down a path of 420,000 Active Duty soldiers or less. 

General Odierno, my question is twofold. First, based on this 

budget and an Active Duty end strength of 450,000 directed by the 

OSD [Office of the Secretary of Defense], do you still believe that 

the Army will assume fairly high risk in meeting the Defense Strategic Guidance? And second, if it is a fairly high risk at the 450,000 

level, what level of risk do you assume at the 420,000 level? 

General ODIERNO. Mr. Chairman, as I just stated, at the 440,000 

to 450,000 level, I believe it is significant risks to meet the Defense 

Strategic Guidance, but we can meet it. And I think that is based 

on the assumptions that we made. And I think the assumptions are 

optimistic. I believe that the assumptions of length of warfare; the 

assumptions on the contribution of our allies; the assumptions on 

the casualties and others are somewhat optimistic. And I believe 

that increases the risk, based on my experience and what we have 

experienced in the past that I think the risk is significant. Although I do believe we can meet the Defense Strategic Guidance. 

At 420,000, and it is not just the Active. It is the reduction in 

the National Guard and the U.S. Army Reserve as well under sequestration that will make it very difficult. As we reduce capacity, 

we lose flexibility. And therefore, when we lose the flexibility that 

means our assumptions must be accurate. 

And over the years, my experience tells us our assumptions are 

not always very accurate. And so I am very concerned that at 

420,000 we cannot meet the strategic—Defense Strategic Guidance. 

I doubt whether we could even execute one prolonged, multi-phase 

operation that is extended over a period of time. 

And so I have great, great concern. And what will happen is this 

again falls on the shoulders of our soldiers when this happens, and 

that is my concern. 

And as we continue to move forward, the risk increases because 

as our dependence on OCO is reduced, it also puts additional pressure on the base budget. And there will be some things that are 

currently in our OCO budget that have to be translated over. The 

base budget will continue to increase the risk as we have to execute full sequestration. 

The CHAIRMAN. When Secretary Hagel and General Dempsey 

came when we started this process, I think the press picked up on 

the idea that we were taking the troops down to—the Army down 

to 440,000. And the comment was made, ‘‘That is the lowest level 

since the start of World War II.’’ I went back, and I think the Army 

at the start of World War II was around 280,000. A year later, 

after the start with the draft and everybody responding to Pearl 

Harbor and the things that happened, the Army went up over 1 

million overnight. 

Well, we know, and I just finished reading a book about the 

Northern Africa campaign and how many lives were lost and how 

they were just—we were sending men in just like fodder. They had 

inadequate training, inadequate equipment, inadequate leadership. 

And that is something that none of us wants to ever see again. But 

shortly after that, Korea hit. We did the same thing. 
13 

And I think all of us here on this committee understand what we 

have been talking about and how these cuts are so drastic. But I 

was at an event last week and there was another Member of Congress there. And I was talking about some of these cuts. He is not 

on this committee. And afterwards, he came up to me and said he 

did not realize that we had cut that much. 

And I think that is—you know, when we come to Congress, we 

get involved in the committees we get assigned to and we don’t get 

as involved in other committees and know what is happening in 

those committees, and still, we are here, and we vote on these 

issues. 

And we are closer than people I know in my district don’t have 

an understanding of how severe these cuts are. And when you are 

talking about these risks, how severe they are. And yet they see 

the news, they see Putin going into Crimea, the Russians talking 

about you know, on the commentators are wondering, are they 

going to go further, are they going to go into Ukraine? A few years 

ago, they went into Georgia. They are still there. And what can we 

do about it? 

You know, basically, we are hunkering down. I think realistically, putting ourselves in a very serious, precarious position, moving forward. 

And I know we passed the budget, and then you have to deal 

with it as best you can. And if we don’t face up to sequestration 

and what that means, there are probably people that think that 

with the budget that we passed in December, we have fixed sequestration. We didn’t fix it. We put it off for a couple of years, and we 

got $20 billion back this year instead of $50 billion. 

But it is something that we really need to face up to, and I appreciate your candidness, I appreciate the efforts that you are making to do the best you can with what you have. But as Members 

of Congress, we are going to have to face up to the real realities 

that are facing us over the next 8 years, so. 

Mr. Smith. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I certainly agree that we need to make sure we have a military 

that is ready to perform the tasks we ask them to do. I would question, you know, even if we had a million-man Army, perfectly 

trained, whether or not too many people on this committee would 

consider it wise for us to use that Army to go to—you know, fight 

a war with Russia over Crimea. 

The issues there are very, very complicated, and simply sending 

in the military is not always the solution to our diplomatic problems. But I will completely agree that we need to have that military ready to perform whatever tasks it is we think they should 

perform. 

I want to ask about base closing, first of all. Do you have an estimate at this point, as you draw down, what excess basing, what 

percentage of excess basing capacity you have at this point? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Yes. We have done a cursory analysis. We 

were under a moratorium for a period of time, according to the 

NDAA [National Defense Authorization Act] that prevented us analyzing, but the figures we show right now is in the continental 

United States, approximately 15 to 20 percent in excess. 
14 

Mr. SMITH. And let me just comment, and I remember the debate, we had a vote in committee on that amendment, which I 

urged us to strip that out of the NDAA. I sincerely hope this committee doesn’t do anything like that again, where we tell you to not 

even think about planning for what are obvious contingencies. 

Whatever concerns we have about base closing, I mean, the budget 

reality we have means we need to give you guys flexibility and not 

box you in like that. So I hope we can avoid that this year. 

Now, there was an estimate given by Under Secretary Hale over in the Senate that it would cost about $6 billion to implement the 

BRAC and then, you know, would be a $2 billion per year savings. 

A couple questions about that. 

First of all, how long would that take? How long would that first $6 billion be going out before we started realizing the savings. 

And then second, can you, you know, let the committee know 

how different this BRAC would be from 2005? Because 2005 was 

really more about realignment than it was about reducing the size 

of the structure, so frankly, anybody who says, ‘‘Oh gosh, 2005 

wound up costing more money, therefore, we shouldn’t do BRAC.’’ 

I mean, that is, you know to call it apples and oranges is an underestimation. 

But could you elaborate on those two points? 

Secretary MCHUGH. If I could start, and start with your second 

point. There are really two types of BRAC embedded in 2005. As 

you noted, Mr. Smith, the actual primary one for the Army was one 

of moving and consolidating forces, bringing rationality to our command structure, that was not exactly directed primarily at the 

budget. It did, over time, produce some savings, both through efficiencies and rational alignments, but it was really intended for us 

to optimize our structure and make sure we were located in the 

right places. 

There was, of course, the second part to eliminate excess capac- ity. That started a payback more immediately. The $6 billion figure 

that Secretary Hale used of course, is a Department-wide figure. 

The Army’s figure is somewhat less. 

We would certainly target a net payback of at least a billion dollars a year. We generally say a 5-year payback. That really depends on particularly environmental considerations that sometimes 

can stretch out a lot, quite a while. But we would hope for a relatively quick payback. Certainly more quickly than occurred in 

2005. 

Mr. SMITH. Okay. General. 

General ODIERNO. If I just add—in the BRAC in 2005, we did 

some significant reorganization under that BRAC, which makes 

that a bit different than this one. 

For example, the combination of the armor and the infantry 

school in Fort Benning, and others like that, all the logistics out 

to Fort Lee. 

So those were major reorganization that was supported by BRAC 

that made it a little bit more expensive, but now is generating savings for us. The next BRAC wouldn’t be quite that drastic. It would 

really be targeted at just eliminating the excess infrastructure that 

we have and so I think you would find it to be not as expensive 

as it was in 2005 and probably a bit better return. Although, we 
15 

are now starting to get big returns on the investments we made in 

2005 with the consolidation. 

Mr. SMITH. Absolutely. And the final question is: the bulk of the 

savings that you find in the Army budget in order to meet the cuts 

that we have described, whether it is just, you know, what fiscal 

year 2014 and 2015 give you or what sequestration gives you, are 

in people and aircraft, basically. I mean that is like—I will throw 

a figure, that is like 95 percent of your savings. Is that accurate? 

A little bit less than that? Is that—— 

General ODIERNO. I would say it is a bit less than that, but it 

is the preponderance of our savings. I would say up to 70 to 75 percent of the total savings is on personnel reductions and aircraft reductions, because that is our most expensive operational component 

to buy and sustain over time. 

Mr. SMITH. And if you were to be restricted in how you could do 

that, and I guess the biggest area of complaint is how this impacts 

the Guard, both in terms of their aircraft and in terms of their personnel, where else would you find the savings? 

Let’s say that we came along and said, ‘‘Gosh, no, you can’t do that.’’ And just picking a figure, it is $1 billion. You know, I think 

the total aircraft savings over 5 years is $12 billion for the movements you are making. I don’t know off the top of my head what 

the personnel savings are, but they are significant, I am sure. Let’s 

just say this committee said ‘‘Nope, you can’t do that,’’ and it was 

a billion dollars. Where would you find a billion dollars? 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. SMITH. Feel free to just go ahead and check in the pockets 

of your coat. 

Secretary MCHUGH. I was just about to look under the table 

here. The reality is there are very few places we can go, and they 

are the very places that we would most prefer not to go. That is 

further end strength, further modernization program implications, 

and decreased readiness, which is already severely constrained. I 

would note just taking the aircraft, you have noted correctly, it is 

about $13 billion costs across the program, but just the cancellation 

of the cockpit sensor upgrade program for the Kiowa, which has already been done, would cost us $1.5 billion. So, that money, as I 

mentioned in my opening comments, as is all the money associated 

with these compo realignments, is gone. 

And they are the same few accounts remaining that we have already hit hard since the beginning in 2013. 

Mr. SMITH. General. 

General ODIERNO. If I could, the cost avoidance on the aviation 

restructure is almost $12 billion. That is cost avoidance, and then 

that saves sustainment costs of $1.1 billion per year. 

Mr. SMITH. Okay. 

General ODIERNO. So it is quite significant. One billion dollars is, 

you know, three Army BCTs. So, if you have to reduce significant 

more Army BCTs, it is equivalent to two THAAD batteries. It is 

equivalent to 2,000 or 1,500 JLTVs [Joint Light Tactical Vehicles], 

$1 billion. So, it would have—we would have to significantly reduce 

in many other areas if we are not able to execute this strategy. 

Mr. SMITH. In a nutshell, it is training, equipment, and readiness. So basically, you know, you would have a less ready, less 
16 

equipped, less trained force, which would lead to precisely the 

vulnerabilities that the chairman talked about, that we had prior 

to World War II and prior to the Korean War. 

General ODIERNO. That is correct. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much. I yield back. 

General ODIERNO. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. Forbes. 

Mr. FORBES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Secretary, General, I want to echo what the chairman said. 

We are both in all very pleased and fortunate to have both of you 

in the positions that you are in. We thank you for coming here and 

sharing your wisdom with us. We learn a great deal from you. We 

also learn a great deal from the members on this committee and 

listening to them. 

And earlier, the ranking member said something that we have 

heard a lot. He said that the President, Congress, came up with a 

budget, and that basically, you built a strategy around the budget. 

My question for you today: Is that an accurate statement? 

Secretary MCHUGH. I wouldn’t—I would never question a Member of Congress, particularly a member of the Armed Services Committee—— 

Mr. SMITH. If I may a point a personal privilege here, I believe 

what I said was that you built a strategy that reflected both the 

needs and the likely budget. I did not say—— 

Mr. FORBES. I am using my time, and obviously the ranking 

member has the time he wants to speak. 

Mr. SMITH. Yes, and you have the time not to misquote me. 

Mr. FORBES. And well, we can look at the transcript, but I think 

it said very clearly—so it would be fair to say that you did not 

build your strategy around the budget? 

Secretary MCHUGH. I think it is fair to say that this was a strategy first development and program, yes. 

Mr. FORBES. So, the strategy was the first priority, not the budget. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Correct. 

Mr. FORBES. Then why did, in the President’s budget, Chairman 

Dempsey testified before this committee based on the 2012 Defense 

Strategic Guidance and the budget that had come over based on 

that, that if you cut one dime out of that, if we reduce that at all, 

we could not meet that strategic guidance? 

Where did you reach this number that came over? Because it is 

not the current law, it is not what was in the current law, and it 

is not the dollars that were stated that needed to go to the 2012 

strategic guidance. Where did you reach this in-between dollar figure, how did you come up with that? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Uh, Chief? 

General ODIERNO. So, you outlined a 2012 Defense Strategic 

Guidance that is the strategy we are developing. I can’t speak for 

Chairman Dempsey, but I will speak for us. 

And on this budget that the President has submitted, I believe 

that is the floor, mentioned earlier, I think that is the floor of what 

we need in order for us to execute this strategy. 

Once we go below that, we can no longer execute the strategy. 

We are going to have to develop, either change the current—amend 
17 

the current strategy or develop a new strategy, especially as we go 

down to sequestration. 

But under the President’s budget, I believe we can execute Defense Strategic Guidance with high—with a bit more risk than we 

could originally. 

Mr. FORBES. But, General, it would be fair to say that number 

is less than what we were saying we needed to meet that strategic 

guidance last year—— 

General ODIERNO. As I said earlier, when I first testified in front 

of you, I told you for the Army an end strength was 490,350, and 

that would allow us to do it at moderate risk. 

We are now below that, and so I think we can still execute it, 

but the risk is increasing. 

Mr. FORBES. The other question I have for you, General, last 

year, the Army QDR office sponsored a report that the RAND Corporation conducted, entitled, ‘‘Evolving [Employing] Land-Based 

Anti-Ship Missiles in the Western Pacific,’’ and it concluded that 

land-based anti-ship missiles ‘‘are readily available on the world’s 

arms markets, inexpensive, and able to provide significant additional capabilities to U.S. forces. . . . These capabilities would also 

significantly complicate the PLA’s [People’s Liberation Army’s] C2, 

intelligence, and targeting requirements and would raise the risks 

and cost of a conflict for China.’’ 

Having such capabilities in an inventory ‘‘would further U.S. efforts to provide security cooperation assistance to partner nations, 

could help deter conflict, and could contribute to victory in a future 

conflict by increasing flexibility and expanding the set of tools 

available to U.S. commanders to implement plans.’’ 

My question is, do you agree with that conclusion? And do you 

see any role for the Army to be able to use these type missiles in 

the future? 

General ODIERNO. I believe the report is worth us taking a hard 

look at it. And that we have to—there is a role, I think, for us, in 

our ballistic missile capability to potentially do this. 

Now, the problem we have now is our ballistic missile capability 

is overstretched now, as it conducts missions around the world. But 

for us, it is important for us to study this, take a look at it, and 

determine, as we move to the future, that this is—is this a potential strategy we want to invest in? 

Mr. FORBES. And final thing is, has anyone at the Pentagon developed—because, obviously, the devil is always in the details—the 

BRAC criteria yet that would be utilized if we had a BRAC? 

General ODIERNO. I am not aware of it. We have done very little 

on BRAC because—— 

Mr. FORBES. Wouldn’t it be fair to say that if we don’t even know 

what the criteria would be, it would be almost impossible to determine what, if any, savings we would have? 

General ODIERNO. Well, I think the issue is we have not been 

able to do that. What we do know we have is we have excess capacity and excess infrastructure, so. 

Mr. FORBES. Okay. 

General ODIERNO. And that is problematic. 

Mr. FORBES. Thank you, General. 

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 
18 

And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Thank you. 

Ms. Sanchez. 

Ms. SANCHEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And, gentlemen, it is nice to see you both again. 

We have worked together on many issues, as you know, 

John, we miss you over here in the Congress. But I know you are 

doing a great job over there. 

Secretary MCHUGH. I wish I were back on the committee right 

at this moment. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. SANCHEZ. Yes, right. 

So, my issue today goes to the morale and the issues that are affecting our troops, because in particular in the Army, as you know, 

the real resources are our men and women who serve every day, 

who serve in the Reserves, who serve at the National Guard’s level. 

And so, I am a little concerned about the climate, the culture climate and what is going on within the Army. And you know, we 

have worked on a lot of these issues together for a long time, General and Mr. Secretary, but when I see things like the situation 

with the unnamed brigadier general who is retiring with his current rank, despite his various acts of sexual misconduct, and I am 

worried about what that is doing from the pressure from the outside to the military structure, and I worry about what happens 

with the military structure, of a, you know, son, who is committed 

to the U.S. Army. And I worry about due process, from both directions, on sexual misconduct, for example. 

And I am also worried, because I can’t think of anything sadder 

when I look at our military forces than this whole issue of mental 

illness and the suicide rate that we are seeing. 

So I guess I wanted to ask you about what you are seeing, what 

you are doing, that would give us some confidence that we are 

going to be able to address what could be low morale, because of 

some of these cuts going on, what could happen because of—you 

know, what is going on because of these outside pressures and decidedly important, and what we are doing about our young men 

and women and this high suicide rate that we see going on within 

our military? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Well, I think you have painted with a very 

accurate brush with respect to the various and myriad challenges 

we face. And it takes on many forms, but clearly the impact on morale, the fact that we are going to continue to ask America’s sons 

and daughters to come and serve, to ask America’s parents to send 

those sons and daughters. And we have got to ensure that we retain the competence and the trust of both those who are serving 

today and who continue to serve. And as we look at the expanse 

of issues, from suicide to alcohol and drug abuse, et cetera, et 

cetera, we are trying to do everything we can to put into place the 

kinds of rules and regulations that will maintain good order and 

discipline, but, equally important, to provide the level and type of 

care that is necessary. 

We recently established a Ready and Resilient Campaign that is 

an umbrella structure for all of our initiatives focused on mental 

health, focused on alcohol abuse and those kinds of challenges, 
19 

some 62 programs, and trying to ensure that we are coordinating 

those in the most effective way, that we are messaging to soldiers 

in the right way. 

And we are trying to get on, as they say in the military, the left 

side of the bank, before the problems actually manifest themselves. 

Because the longer they go unaddressed, the harder they become 

to be cured. 

Just yesterday, the Secretary of Defense held a half-day session 

with all the service chiefs and secretaries, all the combatant commanders, all the top officials from the Office of Secretary of Defense on ethics, on the responsibility of senior leaders. 

We had several national experts come in and talk to us about 

their experiences, what they believe needs to be done. 

We need to send the right messages, particularly to junior soldiers, who do look at us and watch how we treat senior leaders who 

are brought before the authorities for various charges and such. 

So we are working as hard as we can. This is one area, as I mentioned in my opening comments, particularly with respect to family 

care, that we are going to do everything we can to keep our commitment. And in some areas, we have actually increased funding 

in spite of the pretty dramatic decreases that many other Army 

programs have incurred. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Mr. Wilson. 

General ODIERNO. Mr. Chairman, could I just make a quick comment on that, if you don’t mind? 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay. 

General ODIERNO. Your question is a really important one. I am 

spending a majority—my Sergeant Major of the Army and I are 

spending a majority of our time on this very specific issue that you 

are talking about. 

And it is about education, it is about discussion, it is about understanding accountability, it is about enforcing standards, it is 

about developing an environment that allows our soldiers to continue to grow. 

And there is a lot of angst for a number of reasons, whether it 

be jobs going away, whether it be, you know, 13 years of combat 

or 12 years of combat operations. 

You know, we are spending a lot of time. We are having lots of 

meetings with our commanders, our general officer commanders, 

our battalion and brigade commanders. The sergeant major is 

meeting with the senior noncommissioned officers. We are traveling 

around the Army. 

And then, there are specific things we are doing. We have increased behavioral health capabilities. We are increasing our outreach to the Guard and Reserve with behavioral health. 

We are working this very hard. It is something that we can’t stop 

on, and it is something we have to stay focused on. You are absolutely right. 

And it is important for us. And we are focused on this issue. 

I do appreciate you asking that question. We have to work together on this. 

Ms. SANCHEZ. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 
20 

Mr. Wilson. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And, Secretary McHugh, General Odierno, thank you for your 

service. My appreciation of your competence is firsthand. I have 

four sons who have served under your leadership in Iraq and Egypt 

and Afghanistan. 

Last year, my wife and I, Roxanne, were reassured by your capabilities as our son, Hunter Wilson, served for a year in Afghanistan, South Carolina National Guard. 

I am very concerned about the shifting of spending from national 

defense to other programs at a time of dangerous worldwide 

threats. As verified by the American Enterprise Institute, Al Qaeda 

is expanding safe havens across North Africa, the Middle East, and 

Central Asia, to attack American families from safe havens. 

Additionally, sadly, Russia is violating international law by annexing sovereign territory of the Republic of Georgia and Ukraine. 

We should remember that the despots who have seized the great 

country of Iran are promoting, clearly, their goals, signs in English 

that state ‘‘Death to America. Death to Israel.’’ 

And just 3 weeks ago, there was a ship which had originated in 

Iran with long-range rockets from Syria, which were being sent to 

Hamas terrorists in Gaza for, obviously, an extraordinary attack on 

Israel. 

With this in mind, your leadership is more important than ever. 

General Odierno, the congressional defense committees directed 

the Army to explore accelerating the Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle, AMPV, in each of the last two defense authorizations bill. 

Now that the Ground Combat Vehicle, GCV, has been terminated 

officially, can the Army brief the defense committees on its plan to 

accelerate the AMPV program? And further, is AMPV now considered your number one combat vehicle program? 

Secretary MCHUGH. If I could respond, Mr. Wilson—— 

Mr. WILSON. Yes. 

Secretary MCHUGH [continuing]. And then the chief can certainly 

add. The AMPV is amongst our five strategic requirements. We are 

very focused on that. As you may be aware at the moment, we have 

an agency protest, which means that one of the competitive bidders 

has filed a protest with us that we did not conduct an open competition and that in essence we kind of wrote the requirements in 

a way that would favor a particular manufacturer. 

We need to work through that before we can resume, but AMPV 

to replace the M–1 and M–113s are absolutely vital to us. And we 

intend to, like the Stryker, like the Bradley and other platforms, 

continue to fund those and support them. 

General ODIERNO. I would just add is that it is an incredibly important vehicle to us. We are long overdue in replacing the 113. It 

is critical to our strategy moving forward. And so it is—that is why 

we funded it the way we have in the budget because of the importance of that vehicle to the future of the Army. 

Mr. WILSON. And thank both of you for answering that question, 

because I know you want the best for our troops. And you have reassured me. 
21 

General, do you have concerns about the proposed TRICARE 

changes? Specifically, are you concerned how the changes impose 

costs on Active Duty soldiers and their families? 

General ODIERNO. So, I support the TRICARE change. I think it 

is important that we go to one system. I think that that will save 

us money and still provide the capability and resources to our soldiers to do this. 

I believe under the plan, it requires some personal behavior 

modification by our soldiers, but it still allows them to get the best 

medical care at the lowest costs. Compensation as a whole, Congressman, is a very difficult issue because obviously you and us, I 

want to do what is best for our soldiers and our families. 

I worry that with budget reductions, we have to just reduce the 

rate of growth. Not reduce the support, but reduce the rate of 

growth. And we are trying to come up with the best ways to do 

this. I believe with the TRICARE proposal, we still provide our soldiers with the best medical care possible within reasonable costs. 

I worry a bit about the potential costs on our lower-ranking soldiers. And that is what we are trying to focus on, to reduce that 

to as small as possible. And we will continue to take a look at that 

as we move forward. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you very much. 

And Mr. Secretary, this is very quick, but I have been on the 

board of the American Lung Association. I am not pro-tobacco. But 

at AAFES [Army and Air Force Exchange Service], this generates 

an extraordinary amount of sales, which helps MWR [Morale, Welfare, and Recreation Programs] and provides employment for dependents and spouses. What is the policy going to be on tobacco 

sales? 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, could you please answer that one 

for the record? The gentleman’s time is expired. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Be happy to, Mr. Chairman. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 93.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Mr. McIntyre. 

Mr. MCINTYRE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thanks to both of you gentlemen for your longstanding commitment to our Nation’s Army and our Nation’s Armed Forces. 

Mr. Secretary, I couldn’t help but think when you said if you are 

on the committee right now. Maybe you would like to be on the 

committee right now, what question you would ask yourself. 

Secretary MCHUGH. It would be easy, whatever it was. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. MCINTYRE. But thank you for that longstanding commitment 

and friendship. 

On page 5 of your testimony, gentlemen, you say, and I quote: 

‘‘For the next 3 years as we continue to draw down and restructure 

into a smaller force, the Army will continue to have degraded readiness and extensive modernization program reductions.’’ And in the 

next paragraph, you say that under sequestration-level spending 

caps, quote: ‘‘the size of our Army at this level of funding will not 

allow us to execute the Defense Strategic Guidance and will put in 
22 

doubt our ability to execute even one prolonged multi-phase major 

contingency operation.’’ 

In the time that I have, would either one of you, or both if you 

would like, explain what this statement of the record means with 

regard to readiness and with regard to sustainability? Because I 

think they may be seen a little bit differently. In fact, specifically, 

what level of unit readiness does the administration’s budget request assume? If funded at the budget request level, how long will 

it be until we regain sufficient full-spectrum readiness and also the 

ability to sustain a major operation? 

General ODIERNO. Thank you, Congressman. 

First, with the statement on the 3 years, the bottom line is it is 

about the balance. And in order to achieve balance, you have got 

to get down to the right end strength levels. So it is going—under 

the President’s budget, it will take us 3 years to get to the end 

strength levels in order for us to get the end strength right so we 

could then start to reinvest in readiness and modernization. And 

that is when it will come together. 

Under the President’s budget, we do that earlier. We are able to 

accomplish that balance around fiscal year 2018, which then allows 

us then to start to increase readiness. Readiness is not one time. 

It is something you have to sustain over the long term. 

And then that allows us to meet the Defense Strategic Guidance, 

as we have said, at significant risk, but we will be able to meet the 

Defense Strategic Guidance. Under sequestration, in 2016, the cuts 

are so severe that it will specifically go after readiness and it will 

take us longer to recover. And when we do finally recover, it will 

be in the fiscal year 2020 to 2023 range. 

But the problem becomes we are now a smaller Army. So the 

issue becomes with a smaller Army, although it is ready and capable, is it big enough to do a prolonged, long-term strategy. And that 

is the concern. 

Mr. MCINTYRE. So do you have an idea of how long it would take 

to reach that level? Or does that just remain an open-ended question? 

General ODIERNO. The level of readiness? 

Mr. MCINTYRE. No, to be able to sustain an operation. 

General ODIERNO. Well, again, under the President’s budget, by 

2018, I believe, we begin to sustain readiness. Under sequestration, 

it will take some—about fiscal year 2023 before we reach that 

sustainment level and then we are—but we are much smaller as 

well. 

Mr. MCINTYRE. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Just a question on that. You said under the 

President’s budget. Is that the $115 billion over and above? 

General ODIERNO. That is. That is. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is kind of just a wish list. 

General ODIERNO. That represents the $115 billion. 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Thank you. 

Mr. Turner. 

Mr. TURNER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

General, Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. I want to 

thank both of you for your leadership on the issue of sexual as-
23 

sault. And I want to appreciate the statement that is on page 18 

in your joint written comments, ‘‘Our goal is to reduce and ultimately eliminate this crime from our ranks.’’ It is, I think, a huge 

step forward on the cultural issue that the language of it being a 

‘‘crime’’ is the issue that is emphasized. 

It takes us obviously to work on legislative and regulatory issues, 

but it also is a cultural issue. And I appreciate your leadership on 

that. 

Mr. Secretary, you have in your joint comments also an issue of 

suicide prevention. I have reviewed previously DOD reports on the 

issues of the stress factors affecting suicide, one of which is custody. Unbelievably, throughout our country, family law courts are 

taking children away from service members based upon either their 

past deployment or the threat of deployment. 

I have a bill which has been included in the NDAA for several 

years that would eliminate deployment as a basis for removal, sole 

basis of removal. It was endorsed by both Panetta and Gates. You 

actually voted for it as a Member of Congress in fiscal year 2008, 

2009, and 2010 for the NDAA. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Thank God. 

Mr. TURNER. Our chairman has set it as a goal for fiscal year 

2015 to make certain this is the law. We have stalled in the Senate 

largely because of recent weak support from DOD. I would like the 

opportunity to sit down and meet with you to discuss this issue and 

to hopefully gain your advocacy for that. 

And then my question to both of you concerns sequestration. In 

your joint statement on page 3, you have a statement I think crystallizes the issue of sequestration. It says that the Army continues 

to face an uncertain fiscal environment in the years ahead. 

I would like if you would both talk for a moment about the issue 

of the fiscal cliff that you are facing. You know, Congress looked 

at it as a, we, handed you a 2-year deal, with the budget being certain for 2014 and 2015. But the fact that you have to cut a glidepath through 2015 because sequestration appears to return at 

2016, means that you don’t have the certainty even for 2015. That 

is one of the things we are going to struggle with is trying to put 

money back, but that, of course, places you even in a more difficult 

position of that fiscal cliff as approaches to 2016, without congressional reassurance that that sequestration-level spending cap in 

fiscal 2016 will not be what you are handed. 

In looking, General Odierno, in your continued efforts to highlight the fact that it would not allow us to do even one prolonged 

multi-phase major contingency operation if we go to the sequestration numbers, I would like for you both to talk for a moment about 

this uncertainty, that even for 2015—it is not just 2016—even for 

2015, sequestration is putting you in a very untenable position. 

And of course, is risking I think our national defense. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Great question, Mr. Turner. And I don’t 

want to sound ungrateful about the bipartisan budget agreement 

because it was important relief. And it has allowed us to begin to 

buy back readiness, to increase our CTC [combat training center] 

rotations, 19 planned for 2015, et cetera, or for 2014, I should say, 

et cetera, et cetera, so, much-needed help. 
24 

But as you noted, sequestration is still the law of the land. And 

absent a definitive act over that term of time by this Congress, it 

continues to be something we have to program toward. The reason 

we are talking about 420,000 is because sequestration will take us 

to 420,000. We continue to program for that, although the President’s proposal, if adopted, would allow us to sustain the 440,000 

to 450,000 for the Active Component we have talked about. 

One of the biggest impacts that really extends outside the Army, 

but obviously affects us, is upon our industrial partners—the folks 

who look at not just the Army, but all the services as a customer, 

who need predictability both to do hirings and ensure they have got 

the right processes in place, got the right plants operating in the 

right ways. 

We can’t tell them what we are going to be in a position to buy. 

That makes them less cost-efficient. It causes them to hire fewer 

rather than more people. I mean, it, at some point, has a pretty 

significant drain on the economy, all because of uncertainty, not because of actual economic conditions at the moment. 

The other thing it does for us in that same avenue, is it has 

caused us to pay more for things. If we can’t enter into longer-term 

contracts with certainty, it causes us to have to enter into short interim contracts that generally, on a piece-by-piece basis, cost us far 

more. 

So, it effects virtually everything we are doing, including, by the 

way, our ability to recruit and retain soldiers because they are uncertain of what their future would be if they sign on that dotted 

line. 

The CHAIRMAN. Gentleman’s time has expired. Mrs. Davis. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. 

Excuse me, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And good to see you both. Thank you so much for your extraordinary leadership. Really appreciate it. 

A few of the questions that I wanted to ask you have been asked, 

but I might ask them in just a slightly different way. 

Mr. Secretary, you have been on the other side of the table, and 

you know in BRAC as you have mentioned, and certainly General 

Odierno as well, how difficult these decisions are. But, they are important. And what more can you share with us as we move forward 

and perhaps face that, the question that was faced last year of trying to, you know, rule that out? 

And I think part of it is the specifics. I think that people do need 

to know what that means in terms of readiness quite specifically 

as you look over this landscape, really, of additional capacity at 

bases, particularly operations. What more, you know, is there 

something that is quite convincing you would like to say about 

that, and again, particularly from your perspective, Mr. Secretary? 

Secretary MCHUGH. I recognize how hard it was. I was a member 

for three BRAC rounds, and I don’t particularly recall enjoying any 

one of them. But, having said that, it is necessary for us to maintain a balance both in terms of the investments we are required to 

make in support of unnecessary infrastructure. That is going to 

continue to increase as we draw down our end strength. 

Obviously, fewer people mean fewer need for facilities, for buildings, et cetera, et cetera. And to maintain an unused building is 
25 

just the equivalent of throwing money away. The Department talks 

about a $6 billion investment for say, a 2017 BRAC, but they would 

hope over time, after 7 years, it would produce some $3 billion in 

annual savings. For the Army, $3 billion in annual savings is a lot 

of money. 

And our challenge is, as we come down, if we are not allowed to 

realign our facilities, you start to hollow out. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Because you start to have fewer and fewer 

people where the resources are taken away from their more immediate needs and placed into facility sustainment that just continues 

us down that downward spiral of hollowness and just not doing 

what we need to do to support. 

Mrs. DAVIS. I have got another question or two, so I appreciate 

that. I really wanted to hear from you because you have been here, 

and it makes a difference. 

On the question, we have—I know that my colleagues have 

talked a little bit about the sexual assault. I mean one question on 

that is how do you fence off outside influences? No matter how you 

move forward. Because we saw the complexity of that in the latest 

cases that certainly have made headlines. 

So, that is one question, but the other one, if you could speak to 

toxic leadership. General, I think you mentioned, maybe as we 

draw down a little bit, that is going to make a difference. How do— 

I mean, how do you really, at the bottom, deal with that issue? 

General ODIERNO. So we have done several things, and first, it 

is something we want to eliminate. And I will start with the toxic 

leadership. So we are doing several things. One is, we are doing 

360 evaluations. We have done a pilot for battalion and brigade 

commanders. We are going to probably put that for everyone starting this fall. We are going to move that to noncommissioned officers as well. 

First of all, now people are recognizing that we are going to take 

a look at this, and that people are going to see that. And you have 

to change behavior. It is also about, we repeatedly have now put 

this inside all of our training programs, whether it be noncommissioned officer and officers. So, it takes time, but what they are 

going to see is that we don’t tolerate it. We are also—we will not— 

we will hold people accountable. 

If you have a toxic leadership environment, you will be held accountable for that environment, and there are several different 

definitions of what toxic leadership can be, but we are working on 

all of those. 

I am meeting regularly with commanders regarding both this 

and the sexual assault, sexual harassment. We are having a lot of 

conversations about this. This is about—this is about us. This is 

about us. Our leadership in uniform. Taking control of this and 

working the issues in order to solve this problem and create an environment for everyone to excel. 

So, we have to just do that. Us. And we have to kind of not worry 

about what other people are saying. It is up—it is incumbent on 

us to take this responsibility on and do it, and that is the discussion we are having. It is very important that we continue to do 

this. This is not just something that is passing. This is something 
26 

that is going to be inherent in what we do as we move forward, 

and that is the discussion we have to continue to have with our 

leaders, and they will come around. 

I am confident that our more senior leaders have. It is now getting it down to the junior level and making sure that they understand that we are serious about this. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. And if I may just very, very briefly mention, thank you for the female body armor. That—I think we came 

back from a trip to Afghanistan and pushed for that, and thank 

you very much. 

Mr. KLINE [presiding]. Gentlelady’s time has expired, and by serendipity, as I take the gavel, it is also my turn to ask questions. 

Mr. Secretary, you spent an awful lot of time dealing with issues 

surrounding Arlington National Cemetery. Probably something you 

didn’t expect when you walked from here to there. And you and I 

have had some conversations and exchanges of letters because Arlington National Cemetery isn’t the final resting place just for soldiers, but other service members as well. 

And for some time now, the advisory committee on Arlington National Cemetery has not had any Marine Corps representation, 

anybody affiliated with the Marine Corps, and so, I have asked you 

to look into that, and can you tell me, are we going to see that anytime soon? 

Secretary MCHUGH. I appreciate your attention to this. And it is 

important. I—and oftentimes, folks think of Arlington and do think 

of soldiers, but as you rightly noted, this is the final resting place 

of all men and women who wore the uniform of this Nation. 

We are very interested in ensuring that all the services are represented effectively and fairly. We, as you know sir, had a tragic 

death of the former lady, a terrific lady who had Marine roots in 

her background, and we are in the process of making a replacement. I have made a recommendation. The final determination always in these matters rests with the Secretary of Defense. I am 

sure he as well as I are somewhat frustrated. This is FACA [Federal Advisory Committee Act] committee. It has all kinds of procedural requirements. We are at the end of that, and hopefully we 

will be able to share a name with you in the very near future. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank you. 

I appreciate your attention to this, and I know it is frustrating, 

and you for us. When you were sitting here, you would never have 

tolerated a year, year and a half sort of delay, but I do take you 

at your word, and more than that, I know you very well, you are 

doing your best to push this through and it just needs to be resolved. 

Switching subjects, I want to, since we have both of you here, 

very quickly, talk about readiness and where we are. I think, Mr. 

Secretary, I think it was you, maybe General Odierno, but I think 

you said that with the so-called Ryan-Murray budget and the adjustment, you were able to start buying back readiness. And clearly 

that is what we would like to see. 

I mentioned to you very briefly that I happen to know that at 

least one of the Army infantry divisions is at a very, very, very low 

combat readiness state. And when I talked to the command in gen-
27 

eral, that division, he told me that he expected it would stay that 

way for another year and a half or perhaps more. 

And so, I understand that you are having to make trade-offs. The 

chief is, and you are—and when you look at different units and 

their readiness. But my question is, is it your intention to keep 

that division or any such division just to keep it down and in a sort 

of C–4, C–5 level as you try to build up the others, or, are you 

going to try to rotate that through? 

Secretary MCHUGH. First off, thank you so much for the question. 

We are slowly increasing our readiness, but it is slow. I think I 

said last year, two brigades were ready. We are at higher than that 

now. We are probably closer to five or six. You will continue to see 

an increase in that readiness as we invest the dollars we got in 

2014 in combat center rotations. 

So, it will increase. The problem is, readiness is temporary. It is 

good for about 6 months to a year or so if—with the funding in 

2014, 2015, but if it falls again in 2016, we will go back into this 

readiness problem again, and we are going to have to sustain a 

tiered readiness profile which says we will only have certain units 

that will be ready. 

We will rotate them through the Army Force Generation process, 

so it will change between units as we move forward, but that is 

really the crux of our problem with sequestration, because at 2016 

we are going to have another readiness dive, if it is not changed. 

We have no choice because we can’t take out the end strength fast 

enough in order to balance it. 

Mr. KLINE. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that answer. 

What I would hate to see is the sort of division equivalent of a 

hangar queen where you just keep them down there, you know, 

month after month and year after year. I understand that readiness is temporary, but the nature of this business sometimes is 

temporary. When you are called, you are called now. And so, if you 

are at C–2 now, that is where you want to be. Not at C–4 or C– 

5. I appreciate very much your answer. 

In a no doubt futile effort to set an example for my colleagues, 

I will yield back, and recognize Ms. Bordallo. 

Ms. BORDALLO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Secretary McHugh, and General Odierno, thank you for your testimony and for your service to our great Nation. 

Mr. Secretary and General, I want to applaud the efforts of the 

Army working with the Air Force, TRANSCOM [U.S. Transportation Command], and MDA [Missile Defense Agency] in deploying 

the THAAD battery to Guam last year, which, Mr. Secretary, you 

mentioned in your testimony. The deployment was relatively quick 

and remains successful. 

Although Guam had other missile defense assets providing protection, the THAAD is an added defense against North Korea aggression and their threats. And the people of Guam are very supportive of THAAD remaining on the island. But we acknowledge it 

may have to redeploy if other contingencies arise. 

So that said, can you comment on efforts to keep the THAAD on 

Guam and in the coming years? 
28 

I understand we are looking at a change of the command soon, 

but what efforts are underway to keep THAAD on Guam for the 

future? And also, to what extent are you considering utilizing the 

Guard to support and sustain THAAD on Guam? 

Secretary MCHUGH. I will start, and then turn it over to the 

chief. 

First of all, I had the, as I think you know, Ms. Bordallo, I had 

the chance to visit Guam, visit those troops a number of months 

ago. They were fresh on the ground, were excited by the mission. 

And I have to say the Air Force thankfully was taking very, very 

good care of our soldiers. 

During that visit, and I am sorry I didn’t get a chance to meet 

with you. You were busy doing the job of representing the great island here in Washington. But I did meet with the Governor. And 

your statement that the people of Guam are very supportive was 

certainly reflected in his enthusiasm. 

As I am sure you are aware, that stationing was led by the 

PACOM commander, Admiral Sam Locklear. He has theater responsibility. We certainly stand ready to provide the mission as he 

sees fit. This is a very high-demand, low-density asset. And as you 

noted, we will have to make adjustments should contingencies 

arise. But for the moment, I think we are doing quite well. 

Chief. 

Ms. BORDALLO. General, before you start, I just want you to 

know, Mr. Secretary, that I have taken a couple of CODELs [congressional delegations] that have visited Guam out to look over the 

THAAD operation. 

General. 

General ODIERNO. We are working with the joint staff to—we are 

at least working to see what it would take to sustain the THAAD 

battery there for the long term. And we are working with the Air 

Force. So we are taking—and we are looking at it from an Army 

perspective—what would it mean if we had to sustain that there 

for the long term in terms of rotational capabilities, type of 

THAAD? So we are clearly looking at that and preparing, if that 

decision is made that we want to leave it there. 

The deployment has gone very well. We are very pleased with 

the support we have gotten there. I know the PACOM commander 

supports it staying there in Guam. So we are preparing and looking at the options that would allow us to keep it there. 

Ms. BORDALLO. Thank you, General. 

And also, I said, what extent are you considering utilizing the 

Guard to support and sustain THAAD? 

General ODIERNO. So, what we will do is, we will still—this will 

be part of our strategy. One of the things—one of the options we 

are looking at, and I will just throw this out there, is that not buy 

more equipment, but increase number of crews and capabilities, so 

you rotate the crews on the equipment. 

So as we work our way through that, we will look at all the components to see how we can solve that problem. But that is one of 

the solutions we have, because we believe in the future this could 

be a problem not only if we sustain in Guam, but if we do other 

deployments around the world. That is one of the options that we 

are taking a look at. 
29 

Ms. BORDALLO. Thank you, General. 

I have another question and I have very little time left. The 

question is for either of you. I read about the Army’s ‘‘Pacific Pathways’’ strategy in the Washington Post. My staff has had subsequent briefings on the matter and we appreciate that the Army is 

trying to articulate its strategy for the Pacific. 

However, I am concerned that the strategy does not adequately 

account for the potential of the Army supporting additional missile 

defense capabilities in the Pacific. It also does not mention or adequately address the capabilities provided by the National Guard 

State Partnership Program. 

So I am concerned this strategy isn’t really taking a holistic look 

at the Army’s future in the Pacific. Can you comment on this strategy, its way forward, and some of the items that I discussed? 

General ODIERNO. Thank you. We are committed to supporting 

the Asia-Pacific region with our 80,000 Active and Reserve troops 

that are there in the region supporting that. Actually, we have 

funded a 27 percent increase in the State Partnership Program in 

support of PACOM in the budget. So we are looking to expand that 

program. 

It is a key program to supporting us. In fact, we are bringing 

States in to increase our relationship with the countries within the 

Asia-Pacific region. That is a centerpiece of this strategy. 

The other centerpiece is that it is—the Guard and Reserve have 

unique capabilities that allow us to continue to engage on several 

different lines, and that is part of the Pacific Pathways strategy. 

So I feel confident that as we move forward with this, it has to be 

a multi-component solution. It cannot just be one component. We 

need the whole Army involved in solving this problem. 

Mr. KLINE. The gentlelady’s time has expired. 

Ms. BORDALLO. My time is up. Thank you. 

Mr. KLINE. Mr. Rogers. 

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank both of you for being here. And I also want to thank 

both of you for making separate but recent trips to the Anniston 

Army Depot in my district. It was an honor to have each of you 

there. That installation does an outstanding job of supporting our 

warfighter. And because of its exceptional work in that role, they 

are in pretty good shape; and also the mission they play for the 

military, they are in pretty good shape. But I know the rest of the 

organic industrial base is not in as good a condition. 

The question I have for you is: Does the Army plan to move any 

work from the Anniston facility—Anniston to facilities with less 

workload in order to prop them up? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Mr. Rogers, thank you for your comments. 

I enjoyed very much my trip there. It was good to get a chance to 

chat with you. 

As I am sure you understand, we are continuously assessing 

workload distribution across the entire Army organic industrial 

base, both the depots as well as the arsenals. We have not made 

any particular decisions in that regard, but I have to be frank, particularly as we come back out of theater, and once we are through 

reset, which we, I should add, would require funding for 3 years 
30 

post-conflict to make sure we are resetting all of the returned 

equipment. 

The workloads are going to have to be reexamined and rebalanced. But, you know, if that occurs, we will certainly do everything necessary to keep you informed. Right now, we are in the 

analysis phase and we are not prepared to make any announcements in that regard. 

Mr. ROGERS. Well, we are—the Alabama delegation, we are paying a lot of attention. And, you know, it is a very cost-efficient facility. And that is one of the reasons they are in good shape. And we 

hope that money is a big factor in your decision, and efficiencies, 

when you decide what to move where. Because we think you get 

a good deal and the taxpayer gets a good deal at Anniston. 

My next question has to do with the AMPV. I am hearing that 

there have been some concerns raised about the current RFP [request for proposal] that was issued by the Army. In the near future, I would like to meet with both of you to talk about some of 

the concerns I have about that. But for this hearing, I am not really focused on the RFP. I am focused on the future depot work— 

maintenance work for the AMPV. 

My primary concern is where the vehicles will be built and maintained throughout their life cycle. I believe strongly it should be the 

Anniston Army Depot and here are some reasons why. The AMPV 

is intended to replace the M–113. Since 1995, the Anniston Army 

Depot has been the home of life-cycle maintenance for the M–113 

family of vehicles. 

Secondly, it certainly appears that the AMPV will be a track vehicle. The Anniston Army Depot is the center of industrial and 

technical excellence for track vehicles. That means the track vehicle work is part of Anniston’s core workload. 

And then finally, the model for public-private partnerships for 

the production and life-cycle maintenance of the Army’s land fleets 

has been the Stryker, which is performed in Anniston. And as you 

know, the Stryker has performed well in recent conflicts. Therefore, 

Anniston has been the best capitalized facility to do the same work 

for the AMPV. 

Given these facts, do you expect the production and life-cycle 

maintenance for the AMPV vehicle—AMPV fleet at Anniston? Or 

are you looking to share the work with other facilities within the 

enterprise? 

Either one of you. 

Secretary MCHUGH. I would prefer to have the acquisition 

ACSAM [Assistant Chief of Staff, Acquisition Management] come to 

speak to you directly. The biggest part of that reason, as I mentioned earlier, this is—the bid is in an agency protest. That, as you 

know, severely constrains what we are advised to say publicly 

about it. You noted I think very accurately the advantages and the 

competitive success that Anniston has demonstrated. If and when 

we get to that point, which I hope it is ‘‘if’’ not ‘‘when,’’ we will certainly make the most cost-effective decision we can. 

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you both very much. 

I yield back. 

Mr. KLINE. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Courtney, you are recognized. 
31 

Mr. COURTNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to thank, again, both witnesses. It is great to see our 

former colleague here, and also General Odierno. Those stripes on 

your right sleeve are, in my opinion, very powerful evidence of, you 

know, the fact that every word you present is backed with an outstanding, almost unprecedented level of service in the Middle East. 

And a number of us had a chance to visit you over the years there 

and your commitment to our Nation, again, is just unquestioned. 

Mr. Secretary, you talked in your opening remarks about the sacred covenant that we must have with the people who have served 

in the Army. And I know both of you believe in that unquestionably. I wanted to share with you a story about an Army National 

Guard wounded warrior from my district who in 2007 was in a rollover. He is 100 percent medically disabled from a TBI [traumatic 

brain injury] injury that he suffered as a result of it. So he was 

medically retired. He is still within, obviously, the DOD sort of benefit structure. And his TRICARE coverage, which was TRICARE 

ECHO [Extended Care Health Option] at the time of the injury, because TRICARE Standard once he went into a retired status. 

If you fast-forward a couple of years ahead, he is a young guy. 

He and his wife had a baby about a year ago. Unfortunately, she 

was born with a pretty severe disability. It is a condition called 

‘‘short colon,’’ which requires nutrition to be done through feeding 

tubes. They can’t feed normally. And the doctors prescribed about 

40 hours of home health services for the care of this child at home. 

She has to be fed and changed every 2 hours. 

TRICARE Standard does not—the structure of TRICARE Standard, as I found out, is really patterned after Medicare. So that families with young children and pediatric issues, particularly sort of 

intensive specialized care, it is a square peg in a round hole. And 

we have been for the last 4 months trying to work with Health Net 

to try and just figure out some help in the home. We are—we think 

we were able to sort of scrape a plan together for 16 hours of care, 

but again, if you think of the sleep deprivation, if nothing else, that 

this family experiences with that kind of intensive care, it is not 

helping the wounded warrior in terms of his issues. 

And frankly, it just sort of begs the question about, you know, 

how we really take care of these families. Again, TRICARE ECHO, 

it would not have been an issue at all in terms of getting the full 

complement of prescribed care that, you know, the child’s doctors 

have prescribed. 

So again, I am not asking you to, you know, answer on the spot 

here, but, you know, when we talk about restructuring TRICARE, 

and again, this is a challenge we have got to talk about, as the 

General said. But frankly, there are gaps, you know, for particularly young medically retired in TRICARE that I would like to 

work with both of you to try and fix. 

I mean, this guy, you know, he did what he was asked to do. He 

is going to carry this wound for the rest of his life, and his family 

should not be sort of trapped in this sort of gap in coverage. And 

again, I am not asking you to—you know, explicitly, but I just want 

to make you aware of the fact that, you know, there are these sort 

of special case problems that I think these conflicts are going to 

continue to sort of manifest. 
32 

Secretary MCHUGH. Thank you, Joe. You know, first of all I 

deeply appreciate the focus and the devotion that you have brought 

to this individual soldier. And I know it transcends just a single 

individual, and you have really, I think, struck upon one of the 

challenges—as you have said—will be with us for many years. 

The good new of Afghanistan-Iraq is people are surviving the 

battlefield and wounds that in all likelihood they would have never 

survived before. 

As many of you have seen—the chief and I certainly have seen 

in many visits to Walter Reed—the challenges many of those 

wounds of survivors are facing incredibly challenging circumstances physically. I think it is fair to say back in 1996 and in 

1997 when TRICARE was fully stood up that no one really considered this aspect of it. 

And, as happens in the private insurance industry as well, sometimes you find your needs misaligned with your policy coverages. 

And we want to certainly do everything we can do to support the 

activity through the TRICARE Management Activity center and 

others to try to close those gaps where they exist. 

So if there is anything we can do to join in your effort, we certainly stand ready to do that. 

Mr. COURTNEY. Well thank you, Mr. Secretary and help that actually is poised to try to work this through to come up with solutions for families like the—— 

Secretary MCHUGH. Right. 

But, we have to make sure we are not placing obstacles in front 

of them from having that happen. 

Mr. COURTNEY. Right, thank you—— 

Mr. KLINE. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

Mr. Conaway. 

Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning. And Chief, I 

want to identify with what Joe said about your long service and the 

absence from your family all those years, thank you very much. 

Seems like a topic that you probably should not talk about, but 

based on all the struggles and the stuff that you guys have been 

putting forward, I have got to ask you about audit readiness. Hagel 

had it in his opening remarks—in his written remarks. I did a 

quick look at your prepared remarks, and I didn’t see it there. 

Accountants and auditors are sensitive little fellows and folks, 

and they—when they don’t see the chief and the Secretary talking 

favorably about them, or just love them or hate them, just don’t ignore them. 

So I would like to get, from both of you, the top-down commitment, I think—I know is there, but I just need to have it there— 

the record, but also specifically talk about as we make this move 

to the GFEBs [General Fund Enterprise Business Systems], which 

looks like it is moving well and is essential to getting to the 

auditability part, ongoing there is a tendency to cling to legacy systems, because they are the comfortable pair of shoes that you liked 

in the field and you know work. And there is some evidence that 

you are not making the full move away from legacy systems and 

that—while that may help temporarily, it is not going to be the 

long-term solution. 
33 

And so, can you talk about the process and just give us a general 

update on where the Army is with respect to meeting the—Panetta’s original commitment, and now the commitment to get audit 

ready by next year. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Well, I would suggest the reason it wasn’t 

mentioned, we are just simply confident that it is going to happen. 

We didn’t want to—— 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. CONAWAY. Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. 

Secretary MCHUGH. At least that is my story for the moment. 

As you know, sir, this is something that is not just important; 

it is stated in law that we have to be auditable by 2017. We are, 

we believe, fully on track to meet that. Our ERPs [enterprise resource planning] have been going very well. You mentioned GFEBs, 

we have had a series of rollouts of those. We are taking them in 

segmented fashion so that we can ensure we are managing it in the 

right way, and to this point in my discussions with recently retired 

Assistant Secretary of the Army for Financial Management and 

Comptroller were having very, very good success. 

We are mindful of what you said about the retention of past 

practices and legacy systems. Perhaps the biggest challenge is to 

wean people off things and processes in which they have dealt with 

for years. Even when say GFEBs is available, they try to do workarounds and stay with what is familiar. And that is why in part 

we have been segmenting the rollouts so we can keep an eye on 

that and make sure that folks are going the right way. 

The chief and I have ordered an analysis and an optimization 

study throughout FMMC [Fort Myer Military Community] to make 

sure that we are aligning ourselves in cost-efficient and effective 

ways. I had a brief discussion yesterday with Bob Hale, the DOD 

Comptroller, about auditability and we are going to continue to 

work toward it. And for the moment I think all systems are go. Although, until we are there, we are not going to assume anything. 

General ODIERNO. If I could just add, we are taking this very seriously. And I apologize if that didn’t come forward, but, you know, 

I speak to every installation commander before they take over and 

I provide them a letter of instruction. 

Part of that letter is a piece on audit readiness, and the importance for them to support the efforts that are going on, that the 

Secretary has really pushed us towards meeting these goals. We 

are doing mock audits on a regular basis so we understand where 

we still have some issues. That is helping us to identify where we 

can improve. We have awareness down really to the lowest levels 

that this is really important, and by 2017 we have to be audit 

ready. 

So I am comfortable that we have identified the problem. I am 

comfortable that we are focusing on it. We still have to make sure 

that we are addressing any of the gaps that we might find as we 

move forward, but I am confident that we are heading in the right 

direction. 

Mr. CONAWAY. You talk most about the challenge that you are 

having from a budget standpoint and the many places dollars can 

go. Are you able to sustain the necessary resources to do this work 

as well? 
34 

General ODIERNO. The budget completely reflects this—the capabilities we need to meet audit readiness by 2017. 

Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you both. Music to my ears, and I know 

the folks who are working really hard at this. It is tough stuff. It 

is not particularly glamorous, and you don’t get a lot of medals for 

it, but it is important for the country’s health. 

Thank you, very much, for your service, and appreciate your 

comments this morning. 

Yield back. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank the gentleman. 

Ms. Tsongas, you are recognized 

Ms. TSONGAS. Thank you. 

General Odierno, Secretary McHugh it is great to have you appearing before us today. And General Odierno, I do want to thank 

you for your visit to Massachusetts and to Natick Soldier Systems; 

it was so much appreciated. So thank you for that. 

But I would like to take this opportunity to talk to you both 

about the decision in the case of General Jeffrey Sinclair. 

As the record shows, General Sinclair pled guilty to the following: Maltreatment of a subordinate, soliciting illicit pictures 

from junior female officers, possessing pornography, as well as misuse of a credit card and using derogatory language. He was sentenced to pay a fine of $24,100, but did not receive any jail time 

or a reduction in rank. 

I would like to quote now from a New York Times article that 

discusses the culture of Sinclair’s unit when he was a colonel. The 

quote is not pretty, and I take no satisfaction from reading it. 

Quote: ‘‘The atmosphere in his unit was such that, at a farewell 

party when he left a brigade command 4 years ago, soldiers in his 

unit put on a skit in which one, dressed in a wig and clothes, in 

an apparent portrayal of the captain the general was sleeping with, 

acted out a scene in which ‘She’ asked another soldier seated in a 

chair and portraying the then Colonel Sinclair whether he wanted 

oral sex.’’ 

From this story, and from the charges that General Sinclair has 

admitted to, there can be no doubt that General Sinclair abused 

and debased his authority in a reprehensible way, using it to perpetuate a toxic military culture which accepted even criminal behavior as the norm. 

And yet, according to the Times, it was after this incident that 

he was promoted to brigadier general. And this is just what we 

know. I don’t want to imagine what we don’t know. 

These series of incidents and its recent shocking outcome, again, 

in which the general did not receive a reduction in rank, and was 

not sentenced to any time in jail, raises the very serious question 

of whether the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice] can be 

fairly called an instrument of justice and whether an organization 

where rank and the pecking order created by rank can ever rise 

above the dictates of deference that rank demands in order to 

meaningfully change. 

I grew up in a family of an Air Force colonel, and I recall in the 

mornings when my father wanted us to get up and do whatever, 

he always said ‘‘orders from headquarters,’’ and we responded and 

did whatever the task of the day was. 
35 

But to put aside that, this decision and these incidents has undercut the progress that has been made by Congress, the military 

and I appreciate sincere and genuine efforts that the Army has 

made and many dedicated advocates—often themselves victims of 

military sexual trauma—to create accountability and change a culture that too often perpetuates a predatory climate. 

It fuels a belief within the services and in the civilian world— 

I can’t tell you how many of my constituents commented on the 

outcome in this case—that high-ranking officers receive and will receive special treatment, whereas enlisted members would be most 

harshly treated. 

I know that you both agree that general officers should be held 

to a higher standard, and there must be serious accountability 

when they fail to meet these standards. 

But is that currently possible? 

I have my doubts. 

I appreciate that you are—and I appreciate the question of Congresswoman Davis about toxic leadership and that you are trying 

to get a handle on it and create metrics. I hope that that includes 

a way in which you link toxic culture to the ways in which leaders 

fuel a culture within their unit that promote sexual harassment 

and sexual assault—all the various forms of military sexual trauma that we have become altogether too familiar with. 

This is really a comment as much as anything. I appreciate the 

extraordinary challenges you have. I am just not sure that you 

have the tools to really make change. The UCMJ is rooted in an 

organization that is deferred and defined by rank. It is implemented by those who are ingrained in that culture. And I have to 

say, this decision was so troubling on so many fronts. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Thank you—— 

Mr. KLINE. Thank the gentlelady. 

Dr. Fleming. 

Dr. FLEMING. Mr. Chairman, I think she had a little bit more 

time left. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank the gentlelady. 

Dr. Fleming. 

Dr. FLEMING. Mr. Chairman, I think she had a little bit more 

time left. 

Mr. KLINE. Oh she did. I am sorry. Okay. Yes. 

Dr. FLEMING. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you Secretary McHugh and General Odierno, first of all 

for your service to our country. Both of you in different capacities, 

and also for being here today. 

And I listened very carefully to your discussion about the 

ratcheting down of numbers of soldiers and BCTs. And I want to 

revisit that a little bit, and so I apologize if there is any redundancy. 

In my understanding, we are going from 570,000 to 490,000 soldiers; from 45 BCTs to 33 BCTs as a part of the Army 2020 process. And importantly, the remaining BCTs will be reorganized 

through the addition of a third maneuver battalion and additional 

engineering capabilities. 

With the President’s fiscal year 2015 budget submission, we now 

realize the Army will go even deeper in these cuts. We have al-
36 

ready talked about going somewhere between 440,000 to 450,000. 

And should sequestration stay in place, it looks like in fiscal year 

2016 as low as 420,000. 

And I think I heard someone actually make the comment that 

that is really exactly where we are headed at the rate we are going 

at the present time. 

Well, I understand a supplemental programmatic environmental 

assessment [PEA] is already underway to look at these levels, so 

here is where I want to drill down. General, can you tell me when 

each of the remaining BCTs will be reconfigured with a third maneuver battalion? 

General ODIERNO. Excuse me. In the Active Component, we will 

complete the reconfigurance by the end of fiscal year 2015, and we 

will complete, except for two brigades which will not convert because of room where they are at. So, all but two will convert by 

the end of 2015. In the National Guard, we are still working with 

the National Guard Bureau to define the timeline as they also convert to the new organization, and we are working our way through 

that. 

Dr. FLEMING. Okay. Thank you, General. Do you again, General, 

do you believe you are adequately managing risk by implementing 

such large reductions to both Army 2020 while simultaneously implementing the supplemental PEA process to yet again look at 

more cuts? 

General ODIERNO. Well, if I could just make one correction, we 

are moving from 45 to 32 brigades, not 33. 

Dr. FLEMING. Okay. 

General ODIERNO. And as I stated, that number of brigades in 

the Active Component allows us to meet the Defense Strategic 

Guidance. But with these additional cuts, depending on how far we 

go down, if we have to go down all the way to 420,000, we will no 

longer be able to. And it will significantly reduce more of the 

amount of brigade combat teams, up to eight more, coming out of 

the Active Component. 

Dr. FLEMING. And based on some comments you said earlier, it 

sounds like to me if we go down to 420,000, we are really talking 

about a high-risk category? 

General ODIERNO. We would not be able to execute the Defense 

Strategic Guidance, which puts—I consider high risk. 

Dr. FLEMING. Do you see any value in fully executing Army 2020, 

meeting that commitment to the communities who host your soldiers before you go to the next step with this supplemental PEA? 

General ODIERNO. That is what we are in the process of doing, 

sir. We want to implement this first. We will then, the Secretary 

and I will then conduct additional assessments on potential future 

reductions and where that might occur. 

But we have to continue to—since we know sequestration is the 

law, we have to continue our process, and that is why we have to 

do the program of our minimal assessment and get that out there. 

Dr. FLEMING. And then finally, could you please comment on the 

potential benefits and cost savings of having a BCT permanently 

stationed at our national combat training centers? 

General ODIERNO. We currently have one at JRTC [Joint Readiness Training Center]. And we have found that to be very helpful 
37 

to have them there, so they have availability to many readiness 

and training capabilities that aren’t normally there. It is a bit more 

difficult out at the National Training Center to have one stationed 

right there. 

So, that is one of the factors we take into consideration as we 

will make our assessment as we move forward, sir. 

Dr. FLEMING. Right. JRTC is in my district, and as you know, we 

are vastly upgrading, enlarging, and because of previous program 

spending, are really upgrading that and enlarging that base. So, 

obviously, we see some real benefits, I think, to the Army in doing 

that. 

And I apologize, Secretary McHugh, I didn’t ask you any questions yet, but in 30 seconds, do you have anything to add? 

Secretary MCHUGH. You cannot ask me a question any time you 

want. 

[Laughter.] 

Secretary MCHUGH. No, I think the chief has captured it very 

well. It all comes back to what both the ranking member and the 

chairman said in their opening remarks. We are not particularly 

anxious to take this Army down to 420,000. We are not at all sanguine about how it would look in the rationality of the process, but 

it is the law of the land. Unless it changes, that is where we have 

to go. 

Dr. FLEMING. Yes. Okay, thank you, and I yield back. 

Mr. KLINE. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Garamendi. 

Mr. GARAMENDI. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Representative Tsongas laid out an expose ́ of the Sinclair problem. I understand, a few moments ago, you talked about a half-day 

session that the Secretary of Defense had with the ranking members or the rank. 

My question to you is—so, as Secretary of the Army and top general in the Army, what are the two of you going to do about the 

Sinclair situation? 

Secretary MCHUGH. I will start. As the final decisionmaker in 

matters of this kind, I am really constrained in what I can say. Unlike in the civilian sector, when a jury comes in, and the case is 

closed, this case is not closed. They are under the Uniform Code 

of Military Justice, a continuing process of certification of the 

record providing both the victim as well as the general an opportunity to respond to the content of that record. 

The accused can make pleas for clemency, et cetera, et cetera. So 

we have a ways to go. 

What I can say is that as in the civilian sector, we do not have 

control over, nor do we try to influence, the sentencing of the judge. 

The Army was faced with the prospect of prosecuting this particular individual, and it did that, and it also prosecuted in a way 

that obtained a conviction. Those are the things we do control. And 

I think it is worthy to note that in the Army, the prosecution rate 

for rape is 64 percent, where in the private sector, it is 14 percent, 

14 to 20 percent. 

So, we do take the steps necessary to hold soldiers accountable, 

but we cannot, and nor would the civilian sector, be able to make 

the determinations of a sentencing judge. 
38 

Mr. GARAMENDI. So the general gets off the hook? 

Secretary MCHUGH. As I said—— 

Mr. GARAMENDI. Retires with full benefits? 

Secretary MCHUGH. As I said, sir, the process is still ongoing. I 

have to make the final—I have to make the final certifications as 

to his rank and conditions of retirement, and that has not yet 

reached my desk. 

Mr. GARAMENDI. General, your comments? 

General ODIERNO. I have no additional comments than what the 

Secretary said. Bottom line is, the military justice system, like the 

civilian justice system, has an independent judiciary. In this case, 

he had the sole discretion of the sentence and the accused and the 

military judge made a decision. We now will abide by that decision 

and work through the process, as it was described by the Secretary 

of the Army, and we can’t comment any further on it because it is 

still an ongoing case. 

Mr. GARAMENDI. When it is completed, I would expect you will 

be back here to explain what your decisions are? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Any decision I make would be a matter of 

public record, of course. 

Mr. GARAMENDI. I yield back. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Gibson. 

Mr. GIBSON. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. 

And I appreciate the panelists being here today. Thank you very 

much for your leadership. I appreciate the sacrifices not only of you 

both and your families, but all those that you command and lead. 

I would like to follow up on earlier dialog with Ms. Sanchez and 

our panelists about the status of the force, morale, cohesion, professional development. In particular, a focus on professional military 

education. The vision for the Army changes since 2010, when I left 

it, and particularly if there are aspects of your vision that you 

would need changes in law. 

General ODIERNO. Right now, I don’t think there is any need to 

have any changes in law. But let me walk through. 

We understand now that what we have—part of what we have 

learned over the last 10 to 12 years, and as I look to the future, 

that the complexity of the environment we are going to have to operate in is increasing. 

And so we have to—one of the great advantages that we have in 

our Army is our leaders, and we have got to continue to develop 

them, both noncommissioned officers and officers, in order to meet 

those increasing challenges. 

So we are completely revamping how we do training, from the 

United States Military Academy to ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] all the way up through general officer training that we 

are doing. We are changing what we do at Command and General 

Staff College. We are changing what we do at the Army War College. We have NCO 2020 that is looking at the development of our 

noncommissioned officers, and how we continue to train them to 

understand the complex environment and make decisions. 

I believe in the future, decisionmaking is going to be decentralized, and so we have to prepare our young leaders in order to understand this environment and the responsibility of making decen-
39 

tralized decisions, especially with the fast movement of information. 

So, we are totally focused on doing this. It is also about managing talent, and that is one of the most important pieces, and that 

we want officers that are very well-rounded. We want officers that 

can be successful tactically, but also understand the broader array 

of responsibilities that you have as you increase in rank, and the 

responsibilities of running a major organization, of understanding 

the different aspects of operating in a joint multinational environment, operating and understanding budgets, but also being operationally and tactically proficient. 

Those are the kind of capabilities we need. So, in order to do 

that, we need to ensure that our young leaders are getting trained 

to do this, and that we manage them in such a way that they are 

getting jobs that develop them to do and operate across a wide 

array of responsibilities. 

So, it is a combination of training and education, it is a combination of talent management, and utilizing the incredible talent that 

I believe we have in all the components of the Army. 

Mr. GIBSON. Mr. Secretary, any further comments on that? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Well, I think the chief summed it up very, 

very well. 

Obviously, as we go forward, the more uncertainty in the environment, we would like to have our leaders more and more comfortable with uncertainty. And that takes the kind of training processes and the kind of approach that, as the chief said, that it, particularly to this credit, we have worked very, very hard and we 

view that as the key to the future. 

Mr. GIBSON. And as the forces develop leadership, retained and 

developed, do you envision any potential need to change the personnel policies in terms of rightsizing the force and developing the 

force? 

General ODIERNO. So, I think one of the things we are doing, as 

we were growing the force in the 2000s, our promotion rates were 

really high, because we lacked the numbers. 

So as we shape the force as we go forward, first we are going to 

see promotion rates come down to what I consider to be historic 

levels, which I think is positive because it is going to generate competition. Competition. There is nothing better than creating great 

leaders is through competition. And I think we are going to see 

that as we move forward. And I think that is important. 

But, again, it is also making sure that we continue to have processes, both in not only the institutional training piece, but in the 

operational training, that we provide opportunities for our leaders, 

operationally, to think through complex problems like—that is why 

the regionally aligned force concept is so important. It is going to 

connect them to regions they have not been in before, such as the 

Asia-Pacific, such as Africa, such as working with our NATO allies, 

such as in other areas, that will allow them to understand the culture, the idiosyncrasy, social, economic aspects of what we are 

going to face in the future. 

And that is going to be a key component of this. So it is not only 

the institutional, but it is the organizational and operational education that is going to be important. 
40 

Mr. GIBSON. Well, it looks like I am about out of time, so I yield 

back. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Barber. 

Mr. BARBER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Mr. Secretary and General, for being with us 

today. 

Before I ask my questions, I just want to comment on an experience I had last week. I had the good fortune, under the leadership 

of Mr. Wittman, to go to Afghanistan, where I visited with many 

of our soldiers, who, I have to say, are performing incredibly well, 

very professionally, under what I would consider very trying circumstances. 

So I think we all would agree that the statements that have been 

made by the President of Afghanistan have been outrageous and 

inappropriate. 

And I wanted to find out for my own, for myself, how this is affecting morale amongst our troops. And, needless to say, morale is 

very high. They are professionals. They are dedicated to their mission. They are carrying out, as I say, the mission in the midst of 

very trying and a very fragile situation, with the elections coming 

up just a week or so away. 

I wanted to, Mr. Secretary, ask you about a particular issue that 

I joined with Senators Flake and McCain. We sent a letter to you 

a couple of weeks ago in regard to rumors that the Army Test Evaluation Command, or ATEC, was looking at consolidating test capabilities across the Nation. 

Last year in March, March 2013, you responded to a similar letter, saying that these consolidations were not being considered. But 

we still hear the rumors. And, of course, rumors create uncertainty, 

and we would like to put them to rest. 

As you know, Fort Huachuca in my district is home to the Electronic Proving Ground, the EPG. It has capabilities and assets that 

simply can’t be matched anywhere in the country. It is a critical 

issue for our national security, I believe, that we respond—we get 

your response to this question. 

And, Mr. Secretary, we look forward to your response, and hope 

that it will be similar to the one you gave about a year ago. 

Do you have any sense of when we might be able to hear back 

from you, sir? 

Secretary MCHUGH. That letter is staffed and being worked, as 

we speak, but we will try to expedite that to get it to you as quickly 

as we possibly can. 

As I mentioned in my letter last year, the capabilities at 

Huachuca and White Sands offer advantages that are hard to replicate. I can only guess that the source of the rumor probably has 

something to do with the Army-wide effort we are doing in looking 

at our administrative structure. 

We expect that there may be some changes across all Army processes in that regard, so we make sure we are aligned efficiently. 

But that is a separate issue from testing, per se. 

But I don’t want to write the letter before it is written. So let 

me make sure we are getting you the most up-to-date, accurate information, and we will do that as quickly as we can. 
41 

Mr. BARBER. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I appreciate that. And I 

think, as we spoke before the hearing, with the general as well, I 

think you know what a unique facility, installation, garrison we 

have at Fort Huachuca in terms of the capability it has to test 

without interference from flyovers or other electronic signals. 

And I do hope that both of you will be able to come out and visit 

us in the very near future. 

Secretary MCHUGH. I am trying. As you and I talked this morning—— 

Mr. BARBER. I know you are. 

Secretary MCHUGH. I have had three trips canceled, for a variety 

of reasons. I am beginning to think I am a jinx. But I am still committed to going out there. 

Mr. BARBER. Look forward to having you. I know the community 

would be very excited to meet with you as well. 

Let me go—move quickly, then, since I have got very little time 

left, to a question for General Odierno. 

I want to thank you, first of all, General, for your incredible service to our country. And it is really unparalleled. 

General, I agree with Secretary Hagel that cyber warfare should 

be one of DOD’s top priorities. And certainly, we have welcomed 

that. It is the capability we need, certainly, going into future warfare. 

And, as I mentioned earlier, Fort Huachuca has the Electronic 

Proving Ground. It is the Army’s premiere C5ISR [command, control, communications, computers, combat systems, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance] and developmental tester, with the 

most pristine electronic range, due to its geographic location. Quiet 

electromagnetic spectrum and no overflights by the aircraft. 

Because of this, it produces, really, the best world test results it 

can have. Any reduction, I believe, in the personnel at Fort 

Huachuca would put these missions at risk. 

As the Army looks at downsizing force structure, General, what 

is the Army’s plan to avoid the loss of Active Duty military and civilians, like those that are found at Fort Huachuca, who have institutional knowledge to support programs such as cyber warfare? 

If you could comment, please. 

General ODIERNO. Well, first, we are increasing—during this 

budget downsizing, we are increasing our investment, so that is 

how important it is to us. And so, those people and that expertise 

is critical to us as we move forward and as we continue to expand 

the Army’s role in cyber. 

And I understand the range that is out there and the importance 

of that range as we move forward. It is critical for our evaluation 

and continued testing. 

So, in my opinion, we are expanding our capability in cyber. We 

still have some decisions to make, but I think the capability that 

is in Fort Huachuca is one that is very important to us as we move 

forward. 

Mr. BARBER. Well, thank you both. I am out of time. 

Mr. Secretary, General, look forward to seeing you in Arizona. 

I yield back. 

Mr. GIBSON [presiding]. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

Thanks, Mr. Barber. 
42 

Mr. Enyart. 

Mr. ENYART. Thank you, Mr. Gibson. 

General Odierno, all the way over here on your right, I have 

moved positions, like Mr. Courtney, I recognize the—what those 

stripes on your sleeve mean. 

And I know that over the past dozen years, many in our Active 

Component have been on a 1-and-1 cycle, 1 year overseas, 1 year 

back to try and reestablish family foundations, and then it is right 

back into the fight again. 

And I realize also, as do you, that if it were not for the contribution of the National Guard or the Reserve forces, our Army would 

have been bent far beyond the ability to sustain that long-term 

fight. 

So it greatly concerns me when I heard you talk earlier, and I 

think it was at least twice that you mentioned the Army’s problems 

in maintaining a prolonged fight if these cuts go through. 

So that leads me into my question, having set the preface. According to OSD CAPE [Office of the Secretary of Defense Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation], and the recent Reserve Forces 

Policy Board study, the National Guard is significantly more costeffective over its life cycle, at approximately one-third of the cost 

when not mobilized and approximately 80 percent to 95 percent of 

the cost when mobilized. 

So I am not sure that I understand why we are proposing to cut 

the National Guard instead of relying on it more, using a term that 

you use so frequently, rebalancing, since it offers opportunities to 

save money while sustaining defense capacity and capability. 

So I would like you, and I will take this answer, since my time 

is very limited, I will take this answer in writing after the hearing, 

but I would like you to discuss for me why the Army is not choosing to keep tens of thousands of soldiers more in our total Army, 

housed in the National Guard and the Reserves, while remaining 

well inside the current cost constraints. 

[The information was not available at the time of printing.] 

Mr. ENYART. Now, for an answer that I would like to have on the 

record, the proposal to transfer the AH–64s, the Apache helicopters, out of the Guard over to the Active Component, are any 

of those Guard helicopters going to be mothballed or shrink 

wrapped or placed on an inactive status? 

Secretary MCHUGH. The short answer is no. 

I can get you a detailed answer on that. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 93.] 

Mr. ENYART. Thank you. 

Now, the reasoning that I have heard propounded here and in 

other places for this justification for transferring the Apaches, is 

that it is going to save money but we are not mothballing any, so 

I am not quite sure how that saves money. 

But the other reasoning I have heard is that the Governors can 

get more use out of Black Hawks, that they, the Governors, don’t 

have any real use for Apaches. 

So my question is, has the mission of the National Guard 

changed? If you use that logic, what you are saying is the Guard 

is only going to be used for domestic purposes or disaster response. 
43 

Has there been some shift in policy that Congress has not been 

made aware of, that would eliminate the Guard’s role in deploying 

overseas and in fighting foreign threats as well as guarding against 

domestic disaster? 

General ODIERNO. Thank you, sir. 

First, what we are eliminating is almost 600 OH–58 aircraft. 

Mr. ENYART. Sir, I am not talking about the OH–58s. I am aware 

of—— 

General ODIERNO [continuing]. You are asking me—— 

Mr. ENYART. I am asking you about—specifically about Apaches. 

General ODIERNO. And I will get to that. But you asked me why 

we are not mothballing Apaches. It is because we are eliminating 

OH–58 Deltas. Significant number. Almost—over 600 of those out 

of the force. That is why we are doing this. 

Now—— 

Mr. ENYART. General, I don’t want to cut you off. I have only got 

a minute left. So you can answer that in writing to me, please. 

General ODIERNO. Okay. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix beginning on page 93.] 

Mr. ENYART. Thank you. 

Now, the motto of the Army that I went through for many, many 

years, was that you train as you fight. And I know when I went 

to Bill Ingram’s retirement ceremony, as the director of the Army 

National Guard, when he gave his retirement speech, he talked 

abut the first unit that got activated out of North Carolina in 2003 

for Iraq was the AH–64s. 

Now, what concerns me is you are eliminating the Army’s reserve force of AH–64s at zero dollars in savings in terms of that 

program. So I think that is not a particularly wise move and you 

are taking away from the Guard’s ability to train because they are 

not going to be able to train as they fight. 

I have one more comment for you, General. And that is when I 

was a young officer, there was a well-known motto: ‘‘Different 

spanks for different ranks.’’ Now, when I got to be a two-star, I 

vowed to eliminate that motto in the force that I commanded. And 

I worked very diligently to do that. In light of the Sinclair episode, 

I commend that thought to you, to eliminate different spanks for 

different ranks. 

Thank you. I yield back. 

Mr. GIBSON. Thank you, Mr. Enyart. 

Mr. Gallego. 

Mr. GALLEGO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I, in looking at some of the issues with respect to the sequester 

and the budget, I note that the supplemental programmatic environmental assessment [PEA] for Fort Bliss, which is located in El 

Paso, indicates a possible cumulative military and civilian employee loss of 16,000 folks. And the supplemental PEA for Joint 

Base San Antonio indicates a potential loss of 5,900 military and 

civilian employees there. 

San Antonio and El Paso being the ends of the congressional district that I represent—as you know, it is nearly a quarter of Texas 

in that district—I know that a lot of that or all of that relates to 

the necessary—the tough decisions with respect to the sequester. 
44 

But what happens to me as I go home and talk to folks is that 

the perception is you all have such a big budget, why can’t you find 

the money and save the money and do this—and go on about the 

business of the Army? Why is the sequester such a big deal? 

Can you—if you were talking to folks in El Paso or San Antonio 

for me, what would you—how would you explain this to them? Because nobody feels the impact of the sequester. I mean, that is just 

another Washington story and it, you know, it doesn’t ever really 

hit home. 

How would you make it hit home? 

General ODIERNO. Well, first of all, thank you for the question. 

What I would tell everybody is that with all the budget cuts we 

have had over the last 11 years, it results in a 34 percent reduction 

in the Army’s budget top line, which is $400 billion over about 11 

years. 

So that is a significant amount of money. And so in order to do 

that, we have to get in balance readiness, modernization, and end 

strength. So in order to meet our responsibilities to Congress, it is 

important that we develop a program that allows us to do that. 

Unfortunately, that means we have to reduce the size of the 

Army, because the one thing we don’t ever want to do is send people into harm’s way that aren’t trained or have the most modern 

equipment. So we have got to balance that. 

And that is the cost, is that we are reducing our spending on defense. That means we have a smaller Army. That means it will be 

one that can do less. But in order to make it—continue it to be capable, we have to reduce it. And that is why these reductions have 

to take place. 

Now, we can have an argument over whether it is too small or 

not, but the bottom line is with the dollars that we have been allocated, we have no other choice. That is the only thing that we can 

do, and that is what I would say to that. 

Mr. GALLEGO. Is the sequester, then, not impacting readiness in 

the sense that if you are going to just field a smaller Army, your 

smaller Army will be ready. But I would argue that sequester impacts the training, for example. It impacts—it has a real impact on 

the safety of our men and women in uniform. 

General ODIERNO. It does in the interim. So in other words, for 

5 or 6 years as you are building—it all has to do with as you are 

taking end strength out, you then don’t have enough readiness. But 

once you get that end strength out, we will be able to sustain a 

readiness level that is appropriate. And that is the end state. 

And so at the end state, you have a smaller Army that is ready. 

But in the meantime, it creates great uncertainty and unreadiness 

because we have to be very careful on how we take soldiers out of 

the Army. We want to make sure we can still meet our current 

operational commitments. We want to make sure we take care of 

our soldiers as we take them out. And we are taking out nearly 

20,000 a year now out of the Army. 

And for us to get down to sequestration levels, we would have 

to continue that for another 5 years. 

Mr. GALLEGO. I would invite you—I know that you have been, 

and I know that you have been semi-frequently—and Mr. Secretary, you as well, to visit both Fort Bliss and Joint Base San An-
45 

tonio. I think they are significantly important in national defense. 

Each obviously has a very different mission, the San Antonio mission with the medical corps and the medical training corps across 

the services. 

But I would like the opportunity to host you all and have you all 

talk to some of the folks directly about the importance of their mission and some of the challenges that you all face in the day-to-day 

decisionmaking with respect to these—making these numbers 

work. 

General ODIERNO. I am actually coming down in April to San Antonio, so I would be happy to set something up. 

Mr. GALLEGO. Great. Thank you. 

Mr. GIBSON. The gentleman yields back. 

Mr. Scott. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Gentlemen, thank you for your service. I was with General Welsh 

this past weekend at Moody Air Force Base where the A–10 flies 

out of. And I have a tremendous amount of respect for General 

Welsh. I know that he, like you, is having to make a tremendous 

amount of tough decisions. 

With regard to the A–10, my primary concern with the recommendation is that we are pulling down that weapons system 

over the course of 24 months, when it will be 7 to 8 years before 

the F–35 is coming off the assembly line in adequate numbers to 

replace some of the other planes that are going to be pulled down. 

I recognize the F–35 is not the primary to take the role of replacing the A–10 for close air support, but we can’t have one plane in 

two places at the same time. So we are going to be pulling down 

a lot of planes over the course of the next 24 months. 

With regard to the close air support mission, that is obviously 

going to be taken over by other weapons systems. And my question 

gets back to with the retirement of the A–10, the costs of flying the 

Apaches, what additional costs do you expect to incur out of the 

Army’s budget in handling that close air support mission with 

Apaches instead of the A–10s? And what additional challenges, 

whether it be in altitude or range or other areas, do you anticipate 

A–10 versus Apache? 

General ODIERNO. Well, first, I think—first, I want to tell you 

the A–10—soldiers appreciate the A–10 and the incredible support 

it has given to us. It is considered to be an incredible, good close 

air support capability. What I would say, though, is the replacement really in the interim is the F–16. The F–16 is going to be 

what gives us close air support. We have been using the F–16 for 

close air support in Afghanistan. They have done about 60 percent 

of the missions in Afghanistan on close air support. 

I think what we have to do with the Air Force, though, is work 

through the tactics, techniques, and procedures on how we continue 

to move forward with the F–16 providing close air support. 

The Apache provides some support to our ground troops. It provides us close, tactical, integrated air support, but it does not replace the responsibility and the need for close air support from the 

Air Force. And so, we are going to have to depend on the F–16 

until the F–35 comes on board for close air support. 
46 

Again, as I said, they have been providing that with that in Afghanistan in some cases. We need to work with them to develop 

the proper tactics, techniques, and procedures so we can move forward. And General Welsh and I have talked about this. 

Mr. SCOTT. As I said, I have a tremendous amount of respect for 

both of you, and I know he was an A–10 pilot, and I know that if 

we weren’t in the budget situation that we are in, we wouldn’t be 

talking about retiring it over the course of 24 months. It would 

probably be closer to a 7-year or an 8-year drawdown as they went 

in for major depot maintenance. 

I appreciate your service and look forward to making sure that 

we maintain that close air support mission as I know you and General Welsh will work on as well. 

Secretary McHugh, thank you for being here. Sorry I had to step 

out for a little while, but thank you for your service. 

With that, I yield the remainder of my time. 

Mr. GIBSON. Gentleman yields back. 

Ms. Speier. 

Ms. SPEIER. Mr. Chairman, thank you. 

And to both Secretary and General, you have led this country 

during some extraordinary times and we value all of your sacrifices 

on our behalf. 

Secretary McHugh, I must challenge your earlier statement. To 

say that there are 5,000 soldiers who will file complaints for sexual 

assault or rape a year and only 500 of them go to court-martial, 

that means that only 10 percent of those that file complaints actually go to court-martial. What happens to the 90 percent that don’t? 

So, the record is good in terms of once they get the court-martial 

that you are successful, but that doesn’t address the fact that so 

many of these cases go unaddressed. But that is not really what 

I want to spend time talking about this morning. 

General Sinclair pled guilty. He pled guilty to engaging in an inappropriate relationship with his accuser. He pled guilty for engaging in an inappropriate relationship with another female Army captain. He pled guilty to engaging in an inappropriate relationship 

with a female Army major. He pled guilty to possessing and displaying pornographic images and videos on his computer in Afghanistan. 

He pled guilty to using his government-issued travel card for personal purposes for a trip to Tuscon, Arizona, to see his accuser, and 

he pled guilty to using that same travel card for another trip to see 

her in Fort Hood, Texas. 

He pled guilty to engaging in sexually explicit communications 

with a second female captain. He pled guilty to engaging in sexually explicit communications with a female major by requesting and 

receiving nude photos and a sexually explicit video of her. 

He pled guilty to trying to start an inappropriate relationship 

with an Army lieutenant. 

This is a sexual predator. And for a sexual predator to gain the 

rank that he has gained, go through a court-martial process, and 

be given a slap on the wrist suggests to everyone who has been 

watching this case that it does not work. The system does not 

work. 
47 

This is an issue of undue command influence. That is the problem. It is a problem when undue command influence does not move 

forward in terms of investigations and prosecutions, and it is a 

problem when undue command influence goes forward in a case 

that has got problems. 

Now, it is true that the defendant and the prosecution had come 

to an agreement, a pre-trial agreement in which the defendant 

agreed to a demotion and jail time. And it was the convening authority that refused to accept that plea. 

Now, my understanding is that you have the authority to demote 

General Sinclair. Is that not the case? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Under the processes for the military, when 

a soldier goes for retirement, the Secretary of the Department has 

the authority to order a grade determination board, and that grade 

determination board makes recommendations as to the grade at retirement for that officer. That is correct. 

Ms. SPEIER. So, let’s be clear that this general pled guilty to any 

number of egregious conduct. That a lower-ranking individual 

would have been kicked out of the military. He has pled guilty to 

those, and you do have the authority to demote him by virtue of 

being the Secretary of the Army. 

Secretary MCHUGH. As I said, under the military procedures, at 

retirement, the service secretary of any of the military departments 

can order a grade determination board to make recommendations 

on grade at retirement. 

Ms. SPEIER. Are you going to order that grade determination 

board? 

Secretary MCHUGH. As I stated earlier, Congresswoman, as the 

decision authority in those matters, I am—— 

Ms. SPEIER. You are not at liberty to tell us? 

Secretary MCHUGH [continuing]. I am not at liberty to make 

comment on what I may or may not do, particularly given that the 

case is still technically open under the UCMJ. Unlike in most civilian courts, there is a preparation of the trial record. The victim in 

this case will be allowed to make comment on those kinds of 

things. The accused can make clemency pleadings, et cetera, et 

cetera. So, I regret, but I am highly constrained from what I can 

say. 

Ms. SPEIER. All right. 

Secretary MCHUGH. I can say, though, as I did earlier, as I know 

you appreciate, and we all appreciate your devotion and focus on 

this very important issue. The Army only had control over whether 

or not this officer was prosecuted. He was. Those guilty pleas that 

you have mentioned came about because the Army did prosecute. 

We in the military, like in the civilian sector, have an independent 

judiciary, and the independent judges make determinations of sentencing. 

This officer was convicted. 

Ms. SPEIER. The judges though, it is important to point out, 

thank you Secretary, are JAG [Judge Advocate General] officers 

that play the role of a judge for a particular case, so they are still 

subject to the chain of command in subsequent cases. 

I yield back. 

Mr. GIBSON. Gentlewoman yields back. 
48 

Mr. Carson. 

Mr. CARSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Secretary McHugh and General Odierno, for your 

service to our country. 

General, let me first start by saying I have a deep affection and 

admiration toward you for two reasons. One is substantive, the 

other is superficial. On the substantive part, I spent some time 

with you in the region a couple of years ago, and I found you to 

be very forthright, very knowledgeable, and greatly respected by 

your team and by our men and women in uniform. 

On the superficial side, I think you carry yourself quite well for 

a fellow tall guy and a guy who has a similar haircut. So thank 

you. 

Secretary McHugh, I recently received word about an Army proposal to pull some of its financial management services in-house, 

and away from the Defense Finance and Accounting Services 

[DFAS]. And as you may know or if you don’t know, in Indianapolis, Indiana, which is my district, DFAS headquarters is located 

there. And obviously this is a deeply—seriously—serious concern 

for that matter, for me and my constituents that might have been 

impacted by these changes. 

But, before getting to my question, I just want to say sir, and you 

can relate as a former member, that I am disappointed that the 

Army didn’t reach out to me with the details of the proposal, and 

I had to receive the information third party. So I know you understand my concerns, because you have been on this side, as well. 

But, I would like to know from you, when I learned in March 

that an Army pilot project was set to begin in April there really 

wasn’t much time to properly make an inquiry and determine how 

exactly this will impact my district and DFAS as a whole. I don’t 

know—you have probably seen the letter from the entire delegation 

of Indiana with several questions about this proposal, its impact on 

our State and how it might impact cost effectiveness and 

auditability of the Army. 

So I hope I can get your commitment to provide some answers 

before the general pilot program begins. 

So here are my questions, sir. Can you tell me if the Army is currently proceeding with a plan to realign some of its financial management and accounting services whether through the proposal I 

am referencing or for some other proposal? 

And, what are your goals, sir, in this process and how will efficacy and feasibility of a proposal be judged beyond the pilot stage 

as we know it today? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Thank you, Congressman. 

First of all, as I know you understand, the United States Army 

does not control DFAS. That is under the Department of Defense, 

principally the Comptroller—at the moment Secretary Bob Hale. I 

in fact had a conversation with him about this matter, a very brief 

one, yesterday. And obviously as the administrative head of DFAS, 

he is tracking very closely what, if any, impact the Army’s current 

initiatives may have on DFAS. 

And I want to underscore the word ‘‘if any.’’ Our intent is not to 

have an effect one way or another on DFAS, but rather to optimize 

our financial management and financial structure internally. 
49 

The project that you are, I believe, referencing is a two-based 

pilot program that by and large focuses on internal management 

and internal Army financial structures. And we don’t expect it 

would have much of any impact on DFAS, whether it be in your 

district, or whether it be not far from my district used to be in New 

York, in Rome, New York, for example, but we won’t know what 

the outcomes may be until we do this one- or two-base targeted 

program. 

I think everybody has to be realistic though, that DFAS relies 

upon its customers and its customers are the Army, the Navy, the 

Marine Corps, the Air Force, Coast Guard. As the number of customers get smaller, you are going to have fewer transactions if no 

one does anything else. 

It is just realistic. 

So I mean, the face of DFAS, I would think—and it is not my 

call, would have to make some adjustments to accommodate the 

drawdown in the budget as well. 

It is just—it seems to me logical. 

But, having said that, the last point I would make, much of what 

we are doing is in pursuit of what Congress has legally said we 

must do, and that is, to become auditable. We have launched—you 

may have heard our conversation earlier with Mr. Conaway— 

launched GFEBs and other ERPs to make sure that we are 

auditable. Part of that, too, will yield inefficiencies and economies 

that may at some point have a transactional—an effect on the 

transactions with DFAS, but we have to make those validations. 

And I know we are working the response to you and your delegation’s letters, so that—you know, our intent is not to surprise anyone, but again, this is basically an Army-focused exercise, but it 

does have the Comptroller General and the Department’s attention. 

Mr. CARSON. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Mr. GIBSON. Gentleman yields back. 

This concludes questions from members. Offer the Army leadership any final comments. 

Secretary MCHUGH. It is good to see a fellow New Yorker—— 

General ODIERNO. Thank you very much, sir. We appreciate it. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. GIBSON. Well, we thank the panelists for their long distinguished careers, for their service, and for their testimony here 

today. 

And may God bless the United States Army. 

The hearing is completed. 

[Whereupon, at 12:47 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

A P P E N D I X 

MARCH 25, 2014 

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD 

MARCH 25, 2014 

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WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING 

THE HEARING 

MARCH 25, 2014 

(93) 

RESPONSE TO QUESTION SUBMITTED BY MR. WILSON 

Secretary MCHUGH. Currently there are no changes to tobacco sales policy under 

formal consideration within the Army. However, we continually review and balance 

the competing requirements of promoting the health of the force, as the use of tobacco has an adverse impact on readiness and performance; satisfying customer 

wishes; and supporting Morale, Welfare and Recreation (MWR) programs. 

Army Regulation 215–8 allows for the sale of tobacco products at Army and Air 

Force Exchange Service (AAFES) outlets to authorized patrons over 18 years of age. 

Tobacco products are not advertised and all tobacco is sold from behind counters. 

Military retail outlets will not enter into any new merchandise display or promotion 

agreements, or exercise any options in existing agreements, that that would increase 

total tobacco shelf space. Eliminating tobacco from AAFES would result in a projected loss of $73M in earn- ings and about $36.5M in MWR dividends. 

Although there are no current plans to end tobacco sales at AAFES, the Exchanges display tobacco cessation products in areas that provide visibility and opportunity to customers who desire to change their tobacco habit. AAFES supports 

pricing of smoking cessation products below the local competitive price. 

Additionally, the Army Surgeon General and the U.S. Army Medical Command 

actively promote and support tobacco cessation, including the provision of tobacco 

cessation programs and products. Army Medicine continues to encourage all leaders 

to push their local installations and units to take steps that can help dissuade or 

reduce tobacco use. [See page 21.] 

RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. ENYART 

Secretary MCHUGH. AH–64 Apaches transferring out of the Army National Guard 

will not be mothballed. The Army’s Attack/Reconnaissance battalions are considered 

low density and high demand assets that must be fully trained and ready on short 

notice to deploy for world-wide contingencies and crisis response in the wake of 

major reductions to the Total Army end-strength and force structure. The divestment of OH–58D Kiowa Warriors and the elimination of three entire Combat Aviation Brigades (CABs) from the Active Component (AC) will take Army Aviation 

down from 37 to 20 shooting battalions. 

Those aircraft will transfer to the Active Component and be repurposed to replace 

the OH–58D Kiowa Warriors that are being divested. There is an immediate requirement to fill 45 shortages that currently exist on Active Component AH–64 

flight lines today. Additionally, the AH–64s coming from the Army National Guard 

will allow the Army to provide airframes to the AH–64E remanufacture line without 

taking additional aircraft from Active Component flight lines and reducing readiness of our attack formations. 

This necessitates transferring all Apache helicopters to the AC in order to meet 

the demands of our Combatant Commanders. The Army simply does not have the 

luxury of retaining Apache helicopters in the Reserve Component (RC) as it is considerably more expensive to maintain a sufficient, available inventory of Apaches in 

the RC than it is to do so in the AC. [See page 42.] 

General ODIERNO. The proposal to reallocate aviation capability between the 

Army National Guard and the Active component should not be conflated with a 

change of mission for the National Guard. This is an effort to use increasingly 

scarce resources to best effect. There has been no change of mission or shift in policy. The Guard remains an important asset to governors in peacetime and a critical 

part of the Total Army, providing needed capacity in overseas operations. 

When considering the most effective use of limited resources, National Guard Formations should be optimized with ‘‘dual use’’ equipment and formations that are capable of supporting States and Governors as well as Combatant Commanders when 

mobilized. We must develop complimentary and mutually supporting capabilities. 

The Army supports a multi-component solution for operationalizing ARNG Aviation 

Brigades in non-permissive environments. Under the Aviation Restructure Initiative 

(ARI), each ARNG Aviation Brigade will have an AC AH–64 battalion aligned with 
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them for training and deployment. These AH–64 battalions will deploy with an intermediate maintenance slice to support AH–64 maintenance and armament. This 

model has proven effective in the past, and in fact, we have a National Guard aviation brigade deployed to Kuwait today with an active duty attack battalion attached. 

The Black Hawk utility helicopters the Army National Guard would gain by this 

transfer play an critically important role in domestic operations, providing governors 

with capability that Apaches lack. Black Hawks have been, and will continue to be, 

a key combat multiplier for our commanders overseas as well. Indeed, the real world 

missions that our National Guard Black Hawk crews conduct here in the homeland 

provide them with experience that makes these crews an especially valued asset 

when they deploy overseas. [See page 43.] 
QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING 

MARCH 25, 2014 

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QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. MCKEON 

Mr. MCKEON. We’ve had many lessons learned from contracting actions during 

contingency operations and there is no doubt we will rely on contract support in future contingencies, be it humanitarian relief or full-spectrum combat operations. 

What are you doing to not only plan for contract support during a contingency, but 

to educate and train your personnel so they are prepared to develop requirements, 

and execute and oversee contracting actions in order to properly respond in a contingency. How are you incorporating lessons learned from contingency contracting in 

Iraq and Afghanistan into the professional military education of your military and 

civilian personnel? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army is committed to incorporating lessons learned from contingency contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan as 

part of the broader Department of Defense (DOD) effort to institutionalize the key 

tenants of Operational Contract Support (OCS) throughout the Joint Force. Properly 

integrated and managed, OCS can act as a force multiplier to help mitigate the 

risks associated with reduced force structure. 

DOD is leading the effort to improve contracting support during contingency operations by formulating a comprehensive plan to strengthen OCS policy and execution. 

The FY14–17 OCS Action Plan, currently in staffing, identifies critical capability 

gaps in OCS policy and execution and includes over 180 corrective actions to address the highest priority shortfalls, as outlined in the 2011 Joint Requirements 

Oversight Council-approved OCS Initial Capability Document. As a key stakeholder, 

the Army is acting in concert with DOD and the Joint Force to close identified capability gaps through changes in doctrine, organization, training, materiel, leadership 

(DOTML), planning and policy. 

In 2007, the Army formally established the Acquisition, Logistics and Technology– 

Integration Office (ALT–IO) as the capability developments office (DOTML) for the 

Army Acquisition Corps, working to ensure that OCS processes and best practices 

are integrated in Army and joint operations and reflected in the curriculum at the 

Army Logistics University, and are integrated across the DOTML domains. 

As part of ongoing efforts to educate and train acquisition and non-acquisition 

personnel to adequately plan, execute and oversee contract support in the event of 

a major contingency, the Army: 

• Hosted and facilitated the OCS Joint Exercise (OCSJX) 2014, the first in a series of joint military exercises exploring the use of operational contract support 

in future contingencies. The January 2014 exercise simulated a major complex 

catastrophe—an earthquake in the Continental United States—and focused on 

military support to civil authorities in the U.S. Northern Command 

(USNORTHCOM) Area of Operations. 

• Over 500 participants: USNORTHCOM, Army-North, all Service Military Departments, the Joint Chiefs of Staff J4, the Defense Contract Management 

Agency and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). 

• Began initial planning with U.S. Pacific Command (USPACOM) for OCSJX 

2015. 

• Established OCS mission roles and responsibilities to require unit commanders 

to maintain proficiency in OCS planning, integration, requirements development, and contract and contractor management in military operations. 

• The Army Universal Task List (Field Manual 7–15) establishes the Army 

OCS as a sustainment function, and delineates separate OCS responsibilities 

of supported units or requiring activities and those of contracting professionals 

• Issued Army Regulation 715–9 (OCS Planning and Management), which prescribes policies and responsibilities for OCS. 

• Issued Army Tactics Techniques and Procedures (ATTP) 4–10 to synchronize 

Army OCS with joint doctrine (Joint Publication (JP) 4–10: Operational Contract Support Tactics, Techniques and Procedures). 

• Provided Army OCS training resources to practitioners, including numerous 

handbooks and graphic training aids, the Contracting Officer’s Representative 

(COR) Course, Operational Contract Support Course (OCSC), the Joint Oper-
98 

ational Contract Support Planning and Execution Course (JOPEC), and COR 

and Commanders Emergency Response Program Web Based Training. 

• Implemented the web-based COR Tracking (CORT) Tool, which provides contracting personnel and requiring activities with the means to track and manage 

COR assignments across multiple contracts across DOD. 

• Developed new OCS initiatives for both acquisition and non-acquisition personnel including: 

• Army Operational Contract Support Board (AOCSB) 

• Command Post Exercise–Functional (CPX–F), Exercise in a Box. 

• Department of the Army Military Contracting Board of Directors (BoDs) and 

Senior Leader Forum (SLF). 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. SMITH 

Mr. SMITH. In FY 2016 the Army is proposing to deactivate the Theater Aviation 

Command Headquarters that is part of the Washington Army National Guard. I 

would like more detail on the advantages the Army sees in this proposal, from both 

an organizational and financial standpoint, and any potential downsides of this proposed action. 

General ODIERNO. During the development of the Aviation Restructure Initiative 

plan it was determined that the Army National Guard possessed excess aviation 

headquarters that were no longer required due to reductions in structure and end 

strength. Analysis of existing headquarters in the reserve component confirmed the 

theater aviation commands, commanded by a one star general, were not utilized as 

a deployable headquarters to support combat operations. 

The Theater Aviation Command structure was designed and implemented during 

the previous 12 years of war. The concept of this organization was to provide command and control while setting the conditions to open and close aviation capabilities 

in combat theaters. In practice, these headquarters did not deploy as the organizations did not meet the requirements identified by ground commanders in Iraq or Afghanistan. 

This plan also maintains Aviation Brigade Headquarters that successfully provide 

the capabilities needed to function in a combat theater. Simultaneously, the actions 

associated with the aviation restructure allows the Army National Guard to meet 

force reduction requirements (personnel reduction to meet fiscal constraints) and reduce operations and sustainment costs. 

The National Guard Bureau planners involved in the development of the Army’s 

restructure plan recommended inactivating the one Army National Guard Theater 

Aviation Command Headquarters while retaining existing brigade headquarters to 

meet mission command requirements. This option minimizes turmoil within Army 

National Guard brigades by maximizing the retention of current command relationships and structure. 

Mr. SMITH. I would like a detailed breakdown of the Army’s plan to modernize 

UH–60 aircraft in the Army National Guard, including plans to replace UH–60A 

models with more modern UH–60L and UH–60M aircraft. 

General ODIERNO. In 2014, the Army achieved the objective fleet requirement of 

2,135 aircraft and has begun divesting the oldest UH–60A aircraft as we filed the 

UH–60M. The UH–60 Black Hawk modernization strategy is to recapitalize and 

modernize the entire fleet of 2,135 aircraft through incremental improvements. Increment 1, which began in 2007, procures 1,375 new build modernized UH–60M aircraft. Increment 2 recapitalizes and digitizes 760 UH–60L aircraft and will begin 

in Fiscal Year 2018 (FY18). 

The fielding of new build UH–60M aircraft will continue until the end of the next 

decade, based on anticipated funding levels. The Army fields new UH–60Ms to units 

based on their deployment window and location, regardless of component to ensure 

the most modern equipment is deployed. In the future, the Army will continue to 

prioritize UH–60M fielding based on Army Force Generation requirements and will 

divest one UH–60A for every UH–60M fielded. When the Army fields new UH–60Ms 

to UH–60L units, those UH–60Ls will be cascaded to units operating legacy UH– 

60A aircraft. Over the next decade, the Army will field approximately 360 UH–60Ms 

to existing Army National Guard formations and cascade 111 UH–60Ls to create 

new UH–60 formations as part of the Aviation Restructure Initiative. 

Beginning in FY18, the Army will begin to recapitalize and digitize the UH–60L 

aircraft to ensure these aircraft remain operationally effective. Based on anticipated 

funding, the Army expects to produce approximately 48 aircraft per year and also 

expects this program to last approximately 17 years. Fielding will begin in FY19 to 
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the training base and then to Command Aviation Companies, Air Ambulance Companies, and Assault Helicopter Battalions. 

The Army also began a UH–60A to UH–60L recapitalization effort in July 2007 

to address sustainment and readiness issues with the legacy UH–60A fleet. The program upgrades provide 10 additional years of service life to a select number of UH– 

60As and will end in FY18 when the UH–60L Digital program begins. The UH–60A 

to UH–60L effort was primarily focused on increasing readiness in the Army National Guard, which operates the largest population of legacy UH–60A aircraft. 

When this program ends, approximately 412 UH–60As will have been recapitalized 

to UH–60Ls, 320 of which will have been fielded to the Army National Guard. 

Mr. SMITH. I understand that conversion of the 81st Armored Brigade Combat 

Team into a Stryker Brigade Combat Team has been considered by the Army. Can 

you please provide an update on the potential conversion of this brigade and when 

we can anticipate receiving any updates and/or announcements on the 81st ABCT 

designation as a Stryker brigade? 

General ODIERNO. As the Army continues to reorganize itself due to budget cuts, 

we will continue to assess the force mix of our Brigade Combat Teams (BCTs), including the 81st Armored Brigade Combat Team. However, we are unable to make 

any definitive decision on type and mix until we come to an agreement on the overall structure of the National Guard. 

Mr. SMITH. I would like more detail on the impact to the Army National Guard’s 

structure and composition that will result from reductions down to 335,000 (as proposed in the President’s Budget) and 315,000 (as is projected under full sequestration). What specific units might the Army National Guard lose? What would the 

process be for determining what units to keep and where they should be stationed? 

General ODIERNO. The Army is structured as a Total Force and builds capability 

across all three Components—Active, Guard and Reserve—to meet national security 

objectives. The Army is currently analyzing the impact of reduced end-strength on 

the Active, Army National Guard, and Army Reserve, within the Total Army Analysis (TAA) process. Part of that process includes the Army National Guard identifying which capabilities they recommend be retained or divested by mission, type, 

capacity, and location. This proven process will identify options for senior leader decisions to balance Total Army capabilities within directed end-strength. 

At 315,000, the Army National Guard (ARNG) would have a total of 22 Brigade 

Combat Teams (BCTs) with three maneuver battalions in each BCT. As a part of 

the restructure at 335,000, the ARNG would consist of 24 BCTs with 3 maneuver 

battalions in each BCT. This will allow the ARNG to maintain all maneuver battalions except for one. 

Identification of specific unit and location detail for all components will not be 

available until the completion of the TAA process which is anticipated for fall 2014 

at the earliest. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. WILSON 

Mr. WILSON. The AH–64 Apache—It is the Army’s multi-role attack helicopter of 

choice and will remain so through 2040, in addition to being a high demand asset 

in Afghanistan. To meet this need, the Army plans to remanufacture all 634 Apache 

‘‘D’’ models to the ‘‘E’’ model configuration to further enhance and increase its capability. I understand the intent of the Army is to execute a multi-year procurement 

contract in fiscal year 2017. What efficiencies and cost savings could we expect by 

using a multi-year contract to acquire upgraded Apaches? 

Secretary MCHUGH. The Army is currently pursuing multi-year procurement authority for the AH–64E program and is working to satisfy the necessary statutory 

requirements by the start of FY 2017. Multi-year contracts typically provide for 

unit-price cost savings associated with larger procurement quantities, and increased 

efficiency through the elimination of repeat labor and consolidated contracting. They 

also provide industry with a predictable production workload over the contract term. 

The Apache Program Office is currently preparing the Business Case Analysis to estimate the cost savings of a multi-year Apache procurement. 

Mr. WILSON. The Department of Defense uses both annual contracts and multiyear contracts when acquiring goods and services. Under annual contracts, DOD 

uses one or more contracts for each year’s worth of procurement of a given kind of 

item. Under multi-year contracts, DOD uses a single contract for 2 to 5 years’ worth 

of procurement. The multi-year contract: 1) results in supplier price breaks for larger quantity purchases, 2) eliminates repeat labor and bureaucracy by buying only 

once, and 3) provides the stability of a set number of years’ worth of production. 

In fiscal year 2013, when a 5-year multi-year contract was signed for the CH–47 
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Chinook helicopter, the savings were $810 million—or over 19 percent—when compared to five single-year contracts. What is the Army’s approach toward the use of 

multi-year contracts? Can we expect to see additional ones, such one for the Apache 

Helicopter in fiscal year 2017, in the future? 

Secretary MCHUGH. When appropriate, the Army seeks to employ multi-year contracts to achieve cost savings. Army Aviation currently utilizes two multi-year contracts, one for the UH–60 Black Hawk and one for the CH–47F Chinook. Combined, 

these contracts will result in over $1 billion in savings. The Army is currently pursuing multi-year procurement authority for the AH–64E Apache program and is 

working to satisfy the necessary statutory requirements by the start of FY 2017. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. LANGEVIN 

Mr. LANGEVIN. I noted the release in February of FM3–38, which used the term 

Cyber Electromagnetic Activities to address the blurring of the boundaries between 

traditional cyber threats, traditional electronic warfare threats, and spectrum management operations. While the attention being given to this regime in doctrine is 

certainly notable and a positive step, these fields are so dynamic that coordination 

of effort across DOD, particularly given current fiscal constraints, is of paramount 

importance. Are you comfortable with the current state of coordination within the 

Army and between the DOD and other services, not just operationally but also in 

terms of investments in systems and R&D? What do you think have been your particular successes and challenges? 

General ODIERNO. Yes, I am comfortable with the current state of coordination 

within the Army, and between the services and the Department of Defense (DOD). 

Within the Army, the stand-up of the Cyber Center of Excellence consolidates Army 

cyberspace operations, electronic warfare (EW), and spectrum management operations (SMO) for capability development, integration, and training, and it ensures 

coordination between the relevant Army force modernization proponents. Operationally, Cyber Electromagnetic Activities (CEMA) elements are being created within 

Army tactical units to integrate, coordinate, and synchronize organic and higher 

echelon cyberspace operations, EW and SMO in support of those units’ missions. 

The Army is studying what capability investments are needed to plan and execute 

CEMA operations. Our Research and Development (R&D) community is conducting 

research in ‘‘dual use’’ cyber and EW capabilities and maintains close liaison with 

the R&D organizations of the other services and DOD to allow mutual leveraging 

of research in these areas. Army CEMA is nested with the DOD Joint Concept for 

Joint Electromagnetic Spectrum Operations (JEMSO), which includes EW and SMO, 

and the Army participates in three of the Office of the Secretary of Defense Communities of Interest (COIs) for Electronic Warfare/Electronic Protection, Cyber and the 

Strategic Command JEMSO Concept of Operations development with the other 

Services. The Army is collaborating with the DOD Chief Information Officer in support of the DOD Spectrum Strategy that assists in addressing a unity of effort for 

EW and SMO. 

Successes: The Cyber Center of Excellence recently achieved provisional status. 

This single organization is responsible for cyber, EW, and SMO doctrine, training, 

and capability development integration. Army Functional Area 29 EW Officers receive training in cyberspace operations and SMO, in addition to EW, to enable them 

to lead the CEMA Elements in Army tactical units and further integration of Military Occupational Specialty 25E Spectrum Managers at battalion and brigade level. 

Requirements are in the Army’s validation process for development of Army ‘‘dual 

capable’’ systems for planning and delivering cyber and EW effects. 

Challenge: Maintaining momentum in Cyberspace, EW, and SMO development in 

a fiscally constrained environment. 

Mr. LANGEVIN. What is the current status of ARFORCYBER? What more do you 

see that needs to be done to improve the Army’s ability to protect its networks, as 

well as being able to conduct full spectrum operations? 

General ODIERNO. U.S. Army Cyber (ARCYBER) Command is assigned as an 

Army Force Component Headquarters to U.S. Cyber Command (CYBERCOM). It operates under the operational control of U.S. CYBERCOM with a Title 10 Service administrative control responsibility to Headquarters, Department of the Army for the 

manning, training, and equipping of its force. ARCYBER has the authorities, manpower, and capabilities to accomplish its current missions. 

ARCYBER and its subordinate commands, in partnership with CIO–G6, are deliberately investing in critical cyberspace capabilities to ensure they stay ahead of the 

growing cyber threat. To better defend all Army networks, ARCYBER is aggressively: 1) building Cyber Mission Force (CMF) teams of highly trained Soldiers and 
101 

civilians; 2) acquiring and fielding the latest technology to equip these teams; and 

3) ensuring access to critical indications and warning intelligence to further compliment our defensive capabilities. To ensure the command can conduct full spectrum operations, ARCYBER has established a Joint Force Headquarters-Cyber to 

command and control CMF teams along with establishing links for these teams to 

timely intelligence—a decisive advantage this nation possesses within cyberspace— 

that will ensure operational success in this domain. 

Mr. LANGEVIN. Can you provide for us an update on the Army’s fielding of Cyber 

Mission Teams to USCYBERCOM, and are you comfortable with the pace of training those teams? 

General ODIERNO. The Army is on schedule to build 41 Cyber Mission Force 

(CMF) teams per guidance from the Office of the Secretary of Defense. A growing 

number of these teams are already providing both the Army and US Cyber Command with operational capabilities. Additionally, the Army continues to build two 

cyber brigades (the 780th Military Intelligence Brigade and a Cyber Protection Brigade) under the operational control of Army Cyber Command, Joint Forces Headquarters–Cyber, and an Army operational headquarters (ARCYBER/2nd Army) to 

support national, Joint, and Army cyber operations. 24 of the 41 Cyber Mission 

Force teams will reach Initial Operational Capability (IOC) by the end of calendar 

year (CY) 14. Beginning in Fiscal Year (FY) 15, the Army will be on pace for remaining teams to reach IOC by the end their designated FY build: 36 teams at IOC 

by the end of FY15, and the full 41 teams at IOC by the end of FY16. 

We are comfortable with the pace of training our CMF teams. Over the past 18 

months, we have learned a lot and worked closely with the USCYBERCOM and the 

Army to improve the processes that underpin the successful development of these 

teams. We continue to work with USCYBERCOM to obtain the training courses and 

seats that our CMF teams require so that they can meet projected initial operating 

capability dates. We also continue to actively engage the Army’s Human Resources 

Command to ensure that personnel with the right grades of rank and Military Occupational Specialties to fill team critical positions are arriving to newly forming CMF 

teams in a timely manner. 

Mr. LANGEVIN. I have been concerned for some time about the vulnerability of our 

domestic and overseas military bases to cyberattacks on the utilities, such as power 

and water, on which our infrastructure depends. Can you provide us with an update 

as to how the Army is working with relevant stakeholders to advance the state of 

their network defenses? Are there additional authorities or incentives that you need 

in order to be able to advance the ball in this regard? 

General ODIERNO. It is critical that the utilities upon which our installations depend are secure from Cyber Attack. Army Cyber Command supports efforts to improve the cyber security of industrial control systems (ICS) the Service owns or upon 

which it depends. The program follows four lines of effort focusing on: 1) identifying 

the various systems throughout the Army; 2) integrating ICS cyber security into existing critical infrastructure risk management programs; 3) gap analysis of capabilities and capacity; and 4) collaborating with the ICS community of interest. The 

Army has already started integrating ICS cyber security concerns into several of its 

assessment programs and will expand the program in the coming fiscal year. 

Based on our preliminary analysis, we do not believe there are any shortfalls in 

our authorities. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. LOBIONDO 

Mr. LOBIONDO. What efficiencies and cost savings could we expect by using a 

multi-year contract to acquire upgraded Apaches? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army is currently pursuing multiyear procurement authority for the AH–64E program and is working to satisfy the 

necessary statutory requirements by the start of FY 2017. Multi-year contracts typically provide for unit-price cost savings associated with larger procurement quantities, and increased efficiency through the elimination of repeat labor and consolidated contracting. They also provide industry with a predictable production workload over the contract term. The Apache Program Office is currently preparing the 

Business Case Analysis to estimate the cost savings of multi-year Apache procurement. 

Mr. LOBIONDO. What is the Army’s approach toward the use of multi-year contracts? Can we expect to see additional ones, such one for the Apache Helicopter 

in fiscal year 2017, in the future? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. When appropriate, the Army seeks to 

employ multi-year contracts to achieve cost savings. Army Aviation currently uti-
102 

lizes two multi-year contracts, for the UH–60 Black Hawk and the CH–47F Chinook. Combined, these contracts will result in over $1 billion in savings. The Army 

is currently pursuing multi-year procurement authority for the AH–64E Apache program and is working to satisfy the necessary statutory requirements by the start 

of FY 2017. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MS. BORDALLO 

Ms. BORDALLO. I am pleased to hear that you are committed to maintaining the 

Reserve Components as an operational force. I believe the Reserve Components 

must remain operational so we don’t lose the experience gained over the last 13 

years of combat, and to me, that means the Reserve Components can deploy in place 

of or follow-on to Active units either during conflicts or in steady-state rotations to 

places like the Sinai. Is the Army Guard going to be a continued part of the Army’s 

Force Generation cycle? Also, think tanks did a joint budget drill last year and there 

were a variety of results. One such group suggested the Army look at Army Guard 

rotations on the Korean Peninsula. Has that been considered? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army will continue to build Army 

National Guard and Army Reserve forces through Army Force Generation. For example, we are planning to send one Army National Guard Brigade Combat Team 

(BCT) to Combat Training Centers in FY 14 and two in FY 15. These events represent a significant investment in preserving Reserve Component readiness and ensuring an integrated and ready Total Force. Pursuant to the Army Total Force Policy, the Army will continue to consider using Reserve Component units for steady 

state rotations, as it has in the past; however, the Army has not planned to employ 

Army National Guard BCTs for rotations to Korea because the BCTs cannot reach 

the desired level of training proficiency within their allotted training days. 

In general, if the Army National Guard maintains too much force structure, its 

readiness funding must be reduced. Therefore, it is essential that the Army National Guard reduce force structure as outlined in the Army’s budget submission in 

order to preserve its capability as an operational force. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. LOEBSACK 

Mr. LOEBSACK. General Odierno, can you go into detail on other Army aviation 

force structure considerations that would have resulted in a mix of combat aviation 

brigades (CABs) and General Support Aviation Battalions (GSAB) in the Active 

Component and Reserve Component? And why those considerations were ultimately 

not chosen? If this restructuring is budget driven, does it not make sense to retain 

some attack aviation capability in the Reserve Component because it’s less costly 

than keeping the most expensive platform, the AH–64, in the most expensive component to maintain and operate? 

General ODIERNO. The Army’s Attack/Reconnaissance battalions are considered 

low density and high demand assets that must be fully trained and ready on short 

notice to deploy for world-wide contingencies and crisis response in the wake of 

major reductions to the Total Army end-strength and force structure. The divestment of OH–58D Kiowa Warriors and the elimination of three entire Combat Aviation Brigades (CABs) from the Active Component (AC) will take Army Aviation 

down from 37 to 20 shooting battalions. This necessitates transferring all Apache 

helicopters to the AC in order to meet the demands of our Combatant Commanders. 

The Army simply does not have the luxury of retaining Apache helicopters in the 

Reserve Component (RC) as it is considerably more expensive to maintain a sufficient, available inventory of Apaches in the RC than it is to do so in the AC. 

When considering the most effective use of limited resources, National Guard Formations should be optimized with ‘‘dual use’’ equipment and formations that are capable of supporting States and Governors as well as Combatant Commanders when 

mobilized. We must develop complimentary and mutually supporting capabilities. 

The Army supports a multi-component solution for operationalizing ARNG Aviation 

Brigades in non-permissive environments. Under the Aviation Restructure Initiative 

(ARI), each ARNG Aviation Brigade will have an AC AH–64 battalion aligned with 

them for training and deployment. These AH–64 battalions will deploy with an intermediate maintenance slice to support AH–64 maintenance and armament. This 

model has proven effective in the past, and in fact, we have a National Guard aviation brigade deployed to Kuwait today with an active duty attack battalion attached. 

The Aviation Restructure Initiative (ARI) was necessary due to severe budget restraints. ARI is designed to achieve a leaner, more efficient and capable force that 

balances operational capability and capacity across the Total Army. The low-density, 
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high-demand AH–64 Apaches transferring out of the Army National Guard (ARNG) 

will be repurposed to replace Active Component (AC) OH–58D Kiowa Warriors that 

are being divested. The transfer will enable the teaming of Apaches with unmanned 

aircraft systems (UAS) for armed reconnaissance, filling a critical capability need 

for an Armed Aerial Scout created by the elimination of the Armed Reconnaissance 

Helicopter program. In addition, consolidation of Apache airframes in the AC will 

enable the Army to better meet the operational demands of our Combatant Commanders due to the increased operational availability as a result of the reduced 

dwell times required in the AC. The ARNG will receive additional UH–60 Black 

Hawk helicopters to optimize the ability to perform its mission in the homeland and 

deploy in support of combat operations. 

Necessary savings are generated by divesting three entire fleets of Army aircraft—the OH–58A/C Kiowas; the TH–67 training helicopters; and the OH–58D 

Kiowa Warriors—an overall reduction of 798 aircraft. The net effect of the reduction 

is a 23 percent decrease in aircraft in the AC with only an 8 percent reduction in 

the ARNG. In addition to procurement and modernization cost savings, the Army 

would also avoid the significant operations and sustainment costs of these aging aircraft fleets. ARI avoids approximately 12 billion dollars in imminent costs. If the 

Army were to not execute ARI, we would be forced to retain many of our oldest and 

least capable aircraft while divesting several hundred modernized airframes. Upgrades to the Kiowa Warrior would cost over 10 billion dollars. Replacing the legacy 

TH–67 training helicopter would cost another 1.5 billion dollars. In addition, lower 

procurement rates of modernized aircraft would cost the Army approximately 15 billion dollars. These costs would be unbearable for the Army under the current budget 

constraints and would risk creating a hollow force, with less overall capability and 

less investment in modernization. 

The Army National Guard was involved in the development and staffing of the 

aviation restructure plan during the entire process. The ARNG was directly involved 

as early as February, 2013 and had planners present during the development of specific details of ARI. 

Under the ARI plan, the regular Army, Army National Guard, and United States 

Army Reserve all retain combat aviation units. UH–60 Black Hawks and CH–47 

Chinooks, which are in all service components, accounted for the majority of hours 

flown in a combat environment during Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation 

Iraqi Freedom. 

It is not possible to produce AH–64’s at a rate sufficient to replace the OH–58, 

resulting in a multi-year capability gap. In addition to this, the purchase of sufficient AH–64’s would cost over 4 billion dollars in addition to an additional annual 

operations cost of more than 340 million dollars. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. CONAWAY 

Mr. CONAWAY. Secretary McHugh and General Odierno, you both are requesting 

authorization for DOD to conduct a Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) in upcoming years to eliminate existing facilities and infrastructure because it will be a 

fiscal burden to the U.S. Army based on a smaller army that is projected to reduce 

from 45 Brigade Combat Teams (BCT) to 32 BCTs. You also testified that this 

smaller army comes with increased risk to national security and reduces the ability 

to conduct successful major ground operations. Should the U.S. enter another war 

that requires major ground operations supported by a larger U.S. Army, or support 

operations in more than one theater, how will the U.S. Army successfully support 

the ‘‘reversibility’’ of the facilities and infrastructure that is required to support a 

larger army? Would the U.S. Army then have to purchase new facilities and build 

new infrastructure to support a larger U.S. Army? In your cost-benefit analysis, will 

it be more expensive to purchase and build new facilities and infrastructure to support that effort than to maintain the existing facilities and infrastructure? Lastly, 

is there a current plan for ‘‘reversibility’’ of facilities and infrastructure if a BRAC 

is successfully conducted by the U.S. Army? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army’s ability to rapidly and effectively respond to future requirements is an important consideration of the BRAC 

process, and the Army would incorporate this concept of surge capacity into the application of the Military Value Selection Criteria. Military Value Selection Criterion 

#3, as proposed by DOD for a future BRAC round, states that the Secretary of Defense, in making recommendations for the closure or realignment of military installations inside the United States, will consider ‘‘The ability to accommodate contingency, mobilization, surge, and future total force requirements at both existing and 

potential receiving locations to support operations and training.’’ 
104 

One of the ways the Army can preserve its surge capacity is to retain maneuver 

lands, impact areas, and training ranges sufficient to support a larger force structure. These are among the Army’s most precious real estate assets because they are 

historically extremely hard to replicate or acquire. Certain types of very specialized 

structures (like testing ranges and unique production facilities) can also fall into 

this category. 

By contrast, excess administrative office space and other facilities on the cantonment area of Army installations degrade rapidly when not occupied. Retaining excess capacity indefinitely, even when buildings are placed in ‘‘mothball’’ status, will 

slow but not prevent facility degradation. Multiple years of empty and unoccupied 

facilities retained by the Army will transform an asset that could be repurposed to 

host another mission realigned from another installation or disposed to benefit the 

local community, into a liability requiring demolition. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. BARBER 

Mr. BARBER. A Supplemental Programmatic Environmental Assessment (PEA) 

was recently published that proposed a reduction of 2,700 personnel from Fort 

Huachuca. This reduction would impact the special mission sets that call for low 

density military occupational specialties (MOS) and civilian experts who manage 

one of Secretary Hagel’s top priorities: cyber warfare and C5ISR systems. As the 

Army looks at downsizing force structure, what is the Army’s plan to avoid reducing 

the low density MOS’s and civilian experts that enable the unique mission sets at 

Fort Huachuca? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army is in the process of reducing 

its Active Component end-strength to 490,000 by FY15, in compliance with current 

law, budget caps and the current national defense strategy. With further budget 

cuts, the Army’s Active Component end-strength could be forced to decline to at 

least 450,000, and we are posturing to go as low as 420,000 if BCA spending levels 

are maintained for Fiscal Year 2016 and beyond. The Supplemental Programmatic 

Environmental Assessment (PEA) is in support of that planning. 

The overall numbers assessed in the Supplemental PEA do not reflect actual or 

projected losses; rather, they are designed to ensure an assessment of the possible 

environmental and socio-economic impacts for the entire range of potential reductions at each installation. 

Mr. BARBER. If the Army were to relocate its developmental tester for C5ISR from 

the environmentally unique location at the Electronic Proving Grounds (EPG) to a 

lab in another base, how would this impact future research and development of 

C5ISR assets? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. Given the nature of C4ISR testing, the 

Army cannot relocate developmental testing to a purely lab-based environment. Effective developmental testing requires open air or field testing under operationally 

realistic conditions. The Army is not changing its developmental test protocols, so 

the balanced use of lab-based and open air or field testing will continue. 

Mr. BARBER. How will Fort Huachuca’s testing, training, intelligence and signal 

units play a role in the emerging and evolving cyber warfare mission? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. Signal units, strategically stationed 

under the command and control of the Network Enterprise Technology Command 

(NETCOM), play a critical role in the emerging and evolving cyber warfare mission 

of cyberspace operations. These signal units conduct network operations and defense 

measures within all Army networks and, as directed, within Department of Defense 

(DOD) information networks. 

NETCOM, headquartered at Fort Huachuca, Arizona, is assigned to the Army’s 

newly established Second Army, and performs Army missions and functions relating 

to the cyber operations’ lines of effort: Defensive Cyberspace Operations and DOD 

Information Network Operations. 

The functions that these signal units perform are focused on Army network modernization efforts, the day-to-day operations of the network, provisioning of information technology systems and services from the global enterprise to the regional and 

local levels, and the protection of these same systems and services. The Commander 

of Second Army is also dual-hatted as the Commander of the Army’s component 

command to USCYBERCOM, U.S. Army Cyber Command (ARCYBER). By aligning 

the Army’s global signal units capability under the same Commander who also command’s ARCYBER, the Army is enhancing and enabling the cyber warfare mission 

by synchronizing Army network modernization efforts and day-to-day operations 

and security efforts with cyber warfare missions. The future network architecture 

will be inherently more defensible in nature and will be better postured to support 
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cyber warfare missions and be operated and defended as a cyber warfare operational 

warfighting platform. When cyber warfare missions are conducted on the network, 

they will be conducted in a manner that is synchronized with and informed by the 

requirement for the network to maintain levels of service and capability to all Army 

entities that use the Army network. 

Intelligence training units will continue to integrate topics related to cyberspace 

operations into instruction for all military intelligence Soldiers as appropriate. As 

the organization’s understanding of cyberspace operations expands, the training and 

doctrine elements that support military intelligence will continue to refine and update the skills required and subsequent training paths for all source and single discipline intelligence Soldiers. 

Mr. BARBER. What is ATEC’s current intent concerning future realignment of 

ATEC’s assets and functions? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. At this time, the Army Test and Evaluation Command does not have a plan to realign or consolidate assets or functions 

across the command. If studies and analysis identify a need to realign assets and 

functions within ATEC, the command will use the appropriate channels within the 

Department of the Army and the Department of Defense to properly inform all relevant stakeholders. 

Mr. BARBER. Please explain the rationale for the Army’s Aviation Restructure Initiative and how involved was the National Guard in this process? Does it not make 

sense to continue to have combat aviation units in the Army Reserve? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army’s Attack/Reconnaissance 

battalions are considered low density and high demand assets that must be fully 

trained and ready on short notice to deploy for world-wide contingencies and crisis 

response in the wake of major reductions to the Total Army end-strength and force 

structure. The divestment of OH–58D Kiowa Warriors and the elimination of three 

entire Combat Aviation Brigades (CABs) from the Active Component (AC) will take 

Army Aviation down from 37 to 20 shooting battalions. This necessitates transferring all Apache helicopters to the AC in order to meet the demands of our Combatant Commanders. The Army simply does not have the luxury of retaining Apache 

helicopters in the Reserve Component (RC) as it is considerably more expensive to 

maintain a sufficient, available inventory of Apaches in the RC than it is to do so 

in the AC. 

When considering the most effective use of limited resources, National Guard Formations should be optimized with ‘‘dual use’’ equipment and formations that are capable of supporting States and Governors as well as Combatant Commanders when 

mobilized. We must develop complimentary and mutually supporting capabilities. 

The Army supports a multi-component solution for operationalizing ARNG Aviation 

Brigades in non-permissive environments. Under the Aviation Restructure Initiative 

(ARI), each ARNG Aviation Brigade will have an AC AH–64 battalion aligned with 

them for training and deployment. These AH–64 battalions will deploy with an intermediate maintenance slice to support AH–64 maintenance and armament. This 

model has proven effective in the past, and in fact, we have a National Guard aviation brigade deployed to Kuwait today with an active duty attack battalion attached. 

The Aviation Restructure Initiative (ARI) was necessary due to severe budget restraints. ARI is designed to achieve a leaner, more efficient and capable force that 

balances operational capability and capacity across the Total Army. The low-density, 

high-demand AH–64 Apaches transferring out of the Army National Guard (ARNG) 

will be repurposed to replace Active Component (AC) OH–58D Kiowa Warriors that 

are being divested. The transfer will enable the teaming of Apaches with unmanned 

aircraft systems (UAS) for armed reconnaissance, filling a critical capability need 

for an Armed Aerial Scout created by the elimination of the Armed Reconnaissance 

Helicopter program. In addition, consolidation of Apache airframes in the AC will 

enable the Army to better meet the operational demands of our Combatant Commanders due to the increased operational availability as a result of the reduced 

dwell times required in the AC. The ARNG will receive additional UH–60 Black 

Hawk helicopters to optimize the ability to perform its mission in the homeland and 

deploy in support of combat operations. 

Necessary savings are generated by divesting three entire fleets of Army aircraft—the OH–58A/C Kiowas; the TH–67 training helicopters; and the OH–58D 

Kiowa Warriors—an overall reduction of 798 aircraft. The net effect of the reduction 

is a 23 percent decrease in aircraft in the AC with only an 8 percent reduction in 

the ARNG. In addition to procurement and modernization cost savings, the Army 

would also avoid the significant operations and sustainment costs of these aging aircraft fleets. ARI avoids approximately 12 billion dollars in imminent costs. If the 

Army did not execute ARI, we would be forced to retain many of our oldest and least 

capable aircraft while divesting several hundred modernized airframes. Upgrades to 
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the Kiowa Warrior would cost over 10 billion dollars. Replacing the legacy TH–67 

training helicopter would cost another 1.5 billion dollars. In addition, lower procurement rates of modernized aircraft would cost the Army approximately 15 billion dollars. These costs would be unbearable for the Army under the current budget constraints and would risk creating a hollow force, with less overall capability and less 

investment in modernization. 

The Army National Guard was involved in the development and staffing of the 

aviation restructure plan during the entire process. The ARNG was directly involved 

as early as February, 2013 and had planners present during the development of specific details of ARI. 

Under the ARI plan, the regular Army, Army National Guard, and United States 

Army Reserve all retain combat aviation units. UH–60 Black Hawks and CH–47 

Chinooks, which are in all service components, accounted for the majority of hours 

flown in a combat environment during Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation 

Iraqi Freedom. 

It is not possible to produce AH–64’s at a rate sufficient to replace the OH–58, 

resulting in a multi-year capability gap. In addition to this, the purchase of sufficient AH–64’s would cost over 4 billion dollars in addition to an additional annual 

operations cost of more than 340 million dollars. 

Mr. BARBER. How will the Army avoid broad cuts to Tables of Organization for 

the purposes of bringing numbers down so that special missions that are currently 

valued by DOD are not hollowed-out? 

Secretary MCHUGH. To meet the potential for a continued reduction of Active and 

Reserve Component structure, the Army is thoroughly evaluating all capabilities, including those of low density forces, in order to structure a smaller force to meet National Security objectives and priorities within current budget constraints. That 

process determines the relative value of each capability in the context of all the missions the Army may be called upon to perform and recommends a minimum 

resourcing level, including in which component the capability should reside. Guidance throughout this process is to avoid the ‘‘hollowing’’ of organizations and the 

Army as a whole. 

Mr. BARBER. The Army said that the Supplemental PEA was one of many components that will be used when making force structure decisions. What other metrics 

will the Army use in their scope of analysis before making the final decision on reducing force structure? 

Secretary MCHUGH. In addition to the environmental and socio-economic impacts 

assessed in the Supplemental PEA, Army realignment and stationing decisions are 

based on strategic and operational factors, including national strategic priorities, 

costs, operational requirements, and an assessment of installation capabilities. The 

Army uses the Military Value Analysis (MVA) model to support capability assessments at installations hosting Brigade Combat Teams (BCTs). The MVA model is 

a decision analysis tool designed to score installations on operationally important attributes related to training, power projection, geographic distribution, and Soldier 

and Family well-being. 

The Army remains a Soldier-centric force and we intend to preserve a high quality 

of life for Soldiers and Families, while sustaining relationships with surrounding 

communities. Assessments of installation capabilities, national strategic priorities, 

costs, and operational requirements are combined with public feedback, ensuring 

the Army weighs all considerations to make fully informed decisions. 

Mr. BARBER. How does the Army specifically assess the socio-economic and environmental impacts at the local and installation levels during a Programmatic Environmental Assessment and what is the best way for local stakeholders to address 

their concerns about potential impacts to the Army? 

Secretary MCHUGH. In addition to the environmental and socio-economic impacts 

assessed in the Supplemental PEA, Army realignment and stationing decisions are 

based on strategic and operational factors, including national strategic priorities, 

costs, operational requirements, and an assessment of installation capabilities. The 

Army uses the Military Value Analysis (MVA) model to support capability assessments at installations hosting Brigade Combat Teams (BCTs). The MVA model is 

a decision analysis tool designed to score installations on operationally important attributes related to training, power projection, geographic distribution, and Soldier 

and Family well-being. 

The Army remains a Soldier-centric force and we intend to preserve a high quality 

of life for Soldiers and Families, while sustaining relationships with surrounding 

communities. Assessments of installation capabilities, national strategic priorities, 

costs, and operational requirements are combined with public feedback, ensuring 

the Army weighs all considerations to make fully informed decisions. 
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Mr. BARBER. Is the Army considering expanding additional MOS’s and career progression in a computer network exploitation or cyber defense field that will meet 

the priorities set in the President’s Budget? 

Secretary MCHUGH. Yes, the Army is establishing a new Cyber Career Management Field (CMF) 17 to provide comprehensive career progression for our highlyskilled cyberspace Soldiers. Currently, the Army is conducting an analysis to identify the appropriate force mixture of Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) and 

Functional Areas (FA) that will comprise the 17-Series CMF. 

Mr. BARBER. Given the likelihood of the reduction of force structure lessening the 

demand for Privatized Army Lodging, is the Army planning to proportionally reduce 

that commitment in order to lessen the costs incurred on the Army’s budget and 

lessen the impact to local economies? If so, then please explain how. 

Secretary MCHUGH. Regardless of whether the Army reduces or increases its 

Privatized Army Lodging (PAL) requirement, the Army will not incur costs for the 

construction, renovation, operation, and sustainment of its privatized lodging facilities. All PAL-associated costs are incurred by the private PAL partner and not by 

the Army. 

The PAL development plan agreed to by the Army, the private PAL partner, and 

the lender has been revised to reflect a lower room count in anticipation of a smaller 

Army force structure and reduced travel budgets. Across the PAL portfolio, the 

privatized end-state room count will be 1,260 rooms fewer, which represents reductions at 28 of the 39 locations across the portfolio. 

Mr. BARBER. The Army in particular has faced cuts in force structure (depth) and 

deferred much needed modernization (capability). How would this dual degradation 

in depth and capability impact the ability to respond to a major contingency? Is today’s Army sufficient to meet OPLAN and CONPLAN requirements? 

General ODIERNO. The Total Army Force of 490,000 in the active Army, 350,000 

in the Army National Guard, and 202,000 in the U.S. Army Reserve that will exist 

at the end of FY15 can meet the most demanding defense strategic guidance requirements at moderate risk. 

The Bipartisan Budget Act supports the President’s Budget submission of a Total 

Army Force of 440,000 to 450,000 in the active Army, 335,000 in the Army National 

Guard, and 195,000 in the U.S. Army Reserve through the end of FY17. At this end 

strength, the Army could, with significant risk, meet requirements in the defense 

strategic guidance if the optimistic assumptions regarding the duration and size of 

future conflicts, allied contributions, and need to conduct post-conflict stability operations are correct. If these assumptions are wrong, risk will grow significantly. In 

either case, as the Army continues to lose end strength, it will face a corollary deterioration in flexibility and ability to react to strategic surprise. 

If implemented, the Budget Control Act (BCA) spending caps could result in a 

Total Army Force of 420,000 in the active Army, 315,000 in the Army National 

Guard, and 185,000 in the U.S. Army Reserve by the end of FY19. At this end 

strength, the Army would not have the appropriate depth and capacity to successfully conduct all components of a prolonged, multi-phase major contingency operation as articulated in the defense strategic guidance under terms acceptable to the 

United States. As a result, the very real probability exists that U.S. forces would 

be unable to sustain conflict long enough to mobilize, train, and deploy additional 

formations. 

With regard to capabilities, the Army is still recovering from cuts to training and 

modernization resources due to the lingering effects of sequestration. Current Army 

readiness levels are not acceptable and, if the Army goes to the end strength levels 

required by sequestration, the Army may not have the appropriate capacity to meet 

operational commitments and simultaneously train to sustain appropriate readiness 

levels across the Total Army Force. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MS. SHEA-PORTER 

Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Secretary McHugh, as the former Ranking Member of the 

House Armed Services Committee and prior to that of the HASC Subcommittee on 

Military Personnel, I know you understand the key oversight role of the committee 

and the importance of following its policy directives. In House Report 113–102 accompanying the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014, the committee ‘‘identified concern regarding soldier and civilian personnel exposure to environmental hazards, including burn pits, dust and sand, hazardous materials and 

waste.’’ The committee directed ‘‘the Secretary of the Army to submit a report to 

the congressional defense committees by February 15, 2014, evaluating the potential 

utility of fabric-based solutions to address soldier exposure to inhalation of sand, 
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dust, smoke, and pollutants.’’ Subsequently, the Program Executive Office Soldier 

identified (in a letter from Gen. Ostrowski to me on June 17, 2013) the proper entity 

to evaluate fabric-based solutions as the U.S. Army Natick Soldier Research, Development, and Engineering Center (NSRDEC) in Natick, Massachusetts, which makes 

sense, as NSRDEC has technical and scientific expertise in the areas of environmental protection, protective clothing, multi-functional textiles, materials, and fibers. Now here it is near the end of March 2014, and the House Defense bill passed 

in June 2013—over 9 months ago. Yet the Army has not tested or evaluated any 

potential fabric-based solutions to dust, sand, smoke and small particulates exposure, and no report has been issued as directed by the House Report. This disregards congressional intent. Can you explain why congressional intent was disregarded, and what steps you are taking to remedy this situation? 

Secretary MCHUGH. The Army has been evaluating textiles since last year and 

anticipates concluding the evaluation shortly. I would be happy to have you and or 

other Committee Members briefed on the results of our evaluation. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. MAFFEI 

Mr. MAFFEI. Congress has asked for the Army’s plans to leverage our investment 

in the MEADS program. Under the Army’s 30-year Lower Tier modernization plan, 

it shows technical assessment of MEADS into the 4th quarter of calendar year 2015. 

What is the status of the plan and strategy to evaluate MEADS end-items as the 

Army has asserted? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army is currently executing a 3- 

phased plan to evaluate opportunities to harvest MEADS technology. Phase I will 

conduct a detailed assessment of MEADS technological maturity and help discern 

whether technologies developed under the MEADS program are sufficiently mature 

for harvesting against current requirements. This effort is currently being finalized 

and will be completed in June 2014. Phase II is also currently underway and will 

incorporate a DOD-wide assessment involving the Air Force, Navy, and Missile Defense Agency to determine opportunities to harvest MEADS technologies. Phase III 

will focus on harvesting and/or transferring technologies to specific Army programs 

or other Services for further development/integration activities. While we anticipate 

that some harvested technology transfers could begin as early as FY15, most technology under assessment is not anticipated to be sufficiently mature for harvesting 

until after FY15. 

Mr. MAFFEI. DOT&E issued a report this year and last citing continued deficiencies in Patriot Ground System reliability and that the overall system does not 

meet threshold requirements for reliability as a result. What is the threshold value 

for Patriot reliability? What is the current reliability value mean time (in hours) between failures? As the Army is planning to invest in excess of $1 billion in radar 

digital processor upgrades, what is the expected improvement in MBTF as a result 

of this investment? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The current threshold value for Fire 

Unit Mean Time Between Critical Mission Failure (MTBCMF) is 21 hours, as stated 

in the January 2013 Joint Requirement Oversight Council (JROC) approved PAC– 

3 Increment 2 Capability Production Document (CPD). MTBCMF is a measure of 

average time between critical mission failures that place the system out of service 

and into a state of repair. Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) is a measure of 

the average time between failures that does not entail placing the system out of 

service. The latest demonstrated MTBCMF from operational testing was 16.4 hours. 

Achievement of MTBCMF is driven by reliability of the Radar Equipment, which 

has 759 replaceable modules/parts. The incorporation of the Radar Digital Processor 

(RDP) upgrade will reduce the quantity of replaceable modules/parts from 759 to 56, 

which is expected to increase hardware reliability for the Radar Equipment from 

132 hours MTBF to 182 hours MTBF. Based on this improved performance, the projected Fire Unit MTBCMF value—after incorporation of the RDP—would be 21 

hours, which would satisfy the threshold system reliability requirement. 

The Army has budgeted $21.0 million in FY15 for 5 RDP kits, which will improve 

reliability and provide the Patriot with additional capability, such as improved target identification. 

Mr. MAFFEI. What is the status of Operational Testing on the Patriot Radar Digital Processor upgrades? When will it complete operational testing? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. Developmental tests for the Patriot 

Radar Digital Processor (RDP) upgrade are scheduled to begin in 1QFY15, with 

operational testing currently scheduled to begin 3QFY15 and end in 1QFY16. However, some early contractor developmental testing of the RDP upgrades has begun 
109 

at White Sands Missile Range to demonstrate performance improvements and increased reliability. 

Mr. MAFFEI. The Army has stated a need for an expensive Patriot antenna upgrade to AESA technology. What requirements gap is driving the need for an AESA 

radar upgrade and what other options have been studied that could meet the requirement for less cost? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Patriot ground system was initially fielded in 1984, with the latest major configuration upgrade to the Patriot 

radar in 2000. Threat evolution and advancements of the future will continue to 

challenge current radar technology. There are four critical capability gaps driving 

the need to modernize our current radar. The first is the need to improve survivability. Based on current and emerging threats, Patriot is required to intercept advanced maneuvering threats; to operate effectively in an advanced electronic attack 

environment; and to defend against both mass and complex integrated attacks. The 

second gap is the need to sense, engage, and destroy evolving threats at the ranges 

and altitudes required for the defended area. The third is the capability to accurately classify, discriminate, and identify manned and unmanned aerial objects in 

order to prevent fratricide. The fourth critical gap is the need to improve reliability, 

availability and maintainability to ensure sustained defense of critical assets. 

In June 2013, the U.S. Army completed a review that showed operations and support savings, performance improvements, and reliability enhancements could be 

achieved by upgrading the Patriot radar with AESA technology. The U.S. Army is 

now preparing to support an OSD Cost Assessment & Program Evaluation led Analysis of Alternatives to investigate modernization alternatives available to improve 

the capability of the Patriot radar. Alternatives to be examined could include: upgrading current Patriot radar with the AESA technology insertion; a new start with 

pure AESA technology; harvesting Medium Extended Air Defense System radar capabilities; and procurement of other existing DOD radars. 

Mr. MAFFEI. In the Army’s Advance Planning for Industry briefings from March 

2014, the Army states the need for 360-degree Sensing and Intercept—Surveillance 

coverage and Fire Control, Combat and Positive Identification, and links to sensors 

and shooters. Given this capability for sensing and intercept was developed in 

MEADS, why isn’t the Army exploiting MEADS capability with IAMD/IBCS? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Army continues to evaluate opportunities to leverage technology from previous and ongoing investments. The MEADS 

Multifunction Fire Control Radar (MFCR) and Low Frequency Sensor (LFS) require 

significant additional Research Development Test and Evaluation investment to 

complete development and operational testing to U.S. standards. The LFS has the 

potential to offer increased capability and performance; however, the system would 

also introduce increased operational and support costs. The Army is currently evaluating opportunities to harvest MEADS technology based on the ongoing assessment 

of technological maturity. 

Mr. MAFFEI. We understand that the MEADS Radars, in coordination with the 

PM, IAMD Program office, were successfully integrated and demonstrated on the 

IBCS last November. Have those results been published or disseminated? Wouldn’t 

this be relevant to a decision on harvesting MEADS radars for IAMD, given the approximately $2.4 billion the U.S. invested in MEADS? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Integrated Air and Missile Defense (IAMD) Project Office granted approval to Northrop Grumman to use Integrated Air and Missile Defense Battle Command System (IBCS) software in a joint 

Industry Initiative between Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin, but did not 

participate in the demonstration. The demonstration was limited in its scope and 

showed that data transmission occurred between the Low Frequency Sensor (LFS) 

and the Multifunction Fire Control Radar (MFCR) to the IBCS software. Initial 

draft results were provided to the IAMD Project Office and are being considered as 

part of the Army’s assessment on MEADS technology harvesting. 

Mr. MAFFEI. How much has been spent to date by the PEO organizations (LTPO/ 

and PM IAMD) on integrating Patriot on the network? When is this capability expected to be completed and what is the projected cost? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Integrated Air and Missile Defense Project Office has expended approximately $185 million to date in Research 

Development Test and Evaluation (RDTE) funds with an expected additional $55 

million in RDTE funding to support testing efforts in FY15 to FY17. Completion of 

the development is expected in FY16 with First Unit Equipped in FY17, and Initial 

Operating Capability in FY18. 

Mr. MAFFEI. We understand the Army needs additional funding to get the Patriot 

system to a Mode 4 capability in Identification Friend and Foe (IFF). How much 

has been spent to date? How much time and funding is needed to finish develop-
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ment and implement on the existing radar? MEADS is already IFF Mode 5; when 

will Patriot reach IFF Mode 5? We understand the development of the fratricide 

fixes in Patriot were initiated almost immediately following OIF. Why has it taken 

over 10 years to implement these fixes? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The Patriot system has incorporated 

Mode 4 IFF capability since the early 1980s. The Army has expended $43.6 million 

to correct Mode 4 IFF issues identified in OIF. The Army demonstrated initial Patriot Mode 5 capability in 2009 through Post-Deployment Build (PDB) software upgrades and demonstrated this capability in Joint level tests and exercises. Further 

Patriot Mode 5 capability will be fielded with the Radar Digital Processor (RDP) upgrade and PDB–8 program. The RDP is in production, and the PDB–8 software is 

scheduled for fielding in FY16. The Army currently plans on testing to demonstrate 

full Mode 5 capabilities in a Joint air environment beginning in 1Q FY15 with Initial Operational Capability in 3QFY16. However, MEADS has not demonstrated a 

production-ready, tested sensor with Mode 5 capability, and thus does not present 

a ready alternative to Patriot modernization. 

Based on lessons learned from OIF, the Army developed a priority list of hardware and software enhancements to correct fratricide-related deficiencies. Two 

major software changes were required, in addition to materiel solutions. The materiel solutions were developed, tested, produced and fielded serially, with fielding of 

the modifications applied to the Patriot units over time. The development, testing, 

and materiel release approvals for most of the enhancements were completed on 

schedule in FY07. Two lower-priority enhancements were fielded in FY11. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. GIBSON 

Mr. GIBSON. What is the Army’s plan forward from the Rapid Fielding Initiative? 

Do you agree that the RFI equipment set has become a new standard for individual 

soldier equipment for combat units? 

How will the Army determine a long term fielding plan for individual soldier 

equipment items that are not fielded outside the wartime deployment cycle, but are 

regularly used overseas ((like the Army Combat Shirt)? 

Right now, under the Rapid Fielding Initiative (RFI) process, soldiers receive a 

set of flame resistant combat uniforms before they deploy. Is this cost-effective? 

Should the Army explore whether some of the uniforms provided prior to deployment should become standard equipment for combat units in training? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. Since its inception, the RFI has been 

funded by Overseas Contingency Operation (OCO) funding in support of deploying 

forces. Soldiers deploying to a combat zone will continue to receive essential uniforms and OCIE (Organizational Clothing and Individual Equipment) through the 

RFI. Over the long term, the Army is assessing the viability of the RFI as budgets 

decline and combat operations conclude in Afghanistan. 

OCIE items such as the Army Combat Shirt will be fielded to deployers destined 

for combat operations. Additionally, the Army is in the process of identifying essential individual soldier equipment to be collected into contingency stores for future 

short-notice deployments. 

Flame Resistant (FR) combat uniforms provide protection against burn and 

spalling injury, a leading cause of casualties on the battlefield due to Improvised 

Explosive Devices. Given the high wear-out rate of uniforms, it is unnecessary and 

cost-prohibitive to provide FR uniforms as standard issue. However, Soldiers performing mission roles that carry a high risk of burn injury, such as aviation and 

tank crews and fuel handlers, currently receive FR uniforms. 

Mr. GIBSON. I know that there is a new global POV contractor coming on line that 

will work with Surface Deployment and Distribution Command (SDDC). Since 

issues can arise during any transition, I wanted to know if you thought the new 

contractor was prepared to provide that same level of service when they take over 

the contract. I’d also like to hear your perspectives as to the impacts to service 

members’ morale if there are problems with the new contractor, such as vehicles not 

being delivered on time. 

Secretary MCHUGH. The American Auto Logistics (AAL) contract terminated on 

April 30, 2014. Effective May 1, 2014, International Auto Logistics (IAL) became the 

new global privately-owned vehicle (POV) provider. There will be no break in service 

at the CONUS facilities. To aid in transition, the military Services asked their personnel to only drop off vehicles at select OCONUS facilities on an emergency basis 

on May 1 and 2, 2014. Reduced traffic on these dates will provide additional time 

for the previous contractor to vacate the facility, and the new contractor to ensure 
111 

that each facility is fully operational. These locations will be fully operational on 

May 5, 2014. 

With a change in contractors, SDDC is addressing several issues to ensure a 

smooth transition. SDDC sent out advisories on April 15 and April 24, 2014 that 

provided information for all Department of Defense Service members, civilian employees, Service Headquarters, and Transportation Offices regarding the implementation of the new global privately-owned vehicle Contract III. The advisory addressed issues such as the establishment of new Vehicle Processing Centers under 

the new contract, implementation details, and transition planning for POV customers. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY DR. HECK 

Dr. HECK. Why can the Army not field transport telemedicine within the next 12 

months, especially since the technology has moved beyond TRL–7 (Technology Readiness Level) and commercial companies are fielding capability now? 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. The commercial environment for telemedicine is different from the military environment. The military environment requires significant integration and interconnectivity into the military operational and 

communications systems in a deployed setting, as well as Food and Drug Administration validation that the integrated system meets the general controls for transmitting medical data. Military requirements must be fulfilled in the following areas: 

cyber security (information assurance), logistics, and communication requirements 

(current radios do not have adequate capabilities to meet data transmission requirements). Also, for development and acquisition of a military system there must be 

an integrated requirements document approved by all the various military components that are affected. 

Based upon the results of demonstrations of military utility, there are still major 

efforts ongoing for use in the military environment. These efforts include testing 

and validating air worthiness (the ability for a system to operate correctly in an airborne craft without interference to the system or to the aircraft); the need to transmit the information across multi-classification domains (e.g., classified radio networks to the Electronic Health Record on the unclassified network); protection of patient data as required by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act; 

and the validation of the types and modes of clinical data that will be by needed 

and used by our clinicians. 

Dr. HECK. What is the timeline for the integration of RC Cyber Forces into 

ARCYBERCOM? 

General ODIERNO. ARCYBER is closely collaborating with Headquarters, Department of the Army (HQDA), the Army National Guard (ARNG) and the United 

States Army Reserve (USAR) to develop a Total Army RC cyber integration strategy 

that supports Joint and Army cyber requirements. This RC Cyber Protection Team 

integration concept rests on four guiding principles: (1) Joint training and certification of RC cyber forces is the desired end state; (2) RC cyber forces will be developed in phases beginning in FY 14 and allocated against current Joint and Army 

priorities; (3) RC cyber forces will focus on foundational training and certification 

requirements that do not require Joint-level training facilities subject to availability 

of resources, priority of effort for facilities, training, infrastructure should shift to 

RC upon completion of Cyber Mission Force build in FY 17); and (4) RC forces will 

train and certify to meet immediate un-resourced Army cyber requirements. 

Dr. HECK. What mission is ARCYBER going to assign to the RC Cyber Force? 

General ODIERNO. ARCYBER, in coordination with United States Cyber Command, ARNG and USAR, has identified the following mission requirements that 

could be discharged by members of the reserve components in the near term: defensive cyberspace operations (DCO), cyber command readiness inspections, vulnerability assessments, cyber opposing force support for training, critical infrastructure 

assessments, theater security cooperation activities, Federal Emergency Management Agency support, augmentation to active component cyberspace organizations, 

support to Joint Force Headquarters-Cyber, and intelligence support to cyberspace 

operations. 

The desired end state for the main effort is 21 Reserve Component (RC) Cyber 

Protection Teams (one full-time Title 10 ARNG CPT; 10 Title 32 ARNG Teams; and 

10 Troop Program Unit USAR CPTs) trained and certified to the joint standard. As 

part of a Total Force solution, Joint training and certification will provide the Army 

the needed flexibility to align RC cyber teams to meet both Joint and Army cyberspace priorities. 

Dr. HECK. What are the Army Cyber Private Public Partnership initiatives (P3i)? 
112 

General ODIERNO. A key Army cyber public private partnership initiative is the 

Army Cyber Institute (ACI) located at West Point, New York. The ACI is a Secretary of the Army and Chief of Staff of the Army priority initiative that performs 

four major functions: outreach, advising, research, and education, in that order of 

priority. The ACI performs and enables outreach to bridge gaps and prompt information exchange across Army, military, academic, industrial and governmental 

cyber communities. They work closely with Army Cyber Command and U.S. Cyber 

Command/NSA to ensure their efforts are synchronized and limited resources are 

employed to maximum effect. 

At the executive and action officer levels, the Army CIO consistently participates 

in a variety of engagements with private and public sector partners to shape Army 

modernization efforts and enhance cyber security capabilities. It is imperative that 

networks are kept current and up-to-date with the rapid changes in technology. 

Currently the CIO/G6 has been engaged in a comprehensive effort with entities and 

organizations across the Army to assess current capabilities, on-going modernization 

efforts, and future IT and cyber security requirements. 

Dr. HECK. What are the Army Reserve’s Cyber P3i activities? 

General ODIERNO. The United States Army Reserve (USAR) is seeking private 

and public partners in the cyber domain to enhance individual and unit readiness 

through extended partnerships creating operational experiences, developing leaders, 

and advancing cyber skills through alternate resourcing opportunities and P3i networks. To date, the program has over six partners with two statements of intent 

at the university provost/dean level. The participating universities include: the University of Texas at San Antonio, the University of Washington (Seattle, Tacoma, 

Bothell), the University of Massachusetts/Fitchburg, the Naval Post Graduate 

School, the University of Denver, and the University of California-Davis. The USAR 

has additional universities working to link into the USAR cyber program. The program is designed to tie University Cyber Security programs directly to Cyber Security/Information Assurance positions’ key skills and attributes (KSA). The intent is 

to catalyze the Soldier development for novice, apprentice and master levels of cyber 

security using the university degree and certificate programs. Various Army National Guard (ARNG) organizations have also signed cyber partnerships with educational institutions to include the Georgia ARNG, the Mississippi ARNG, the 

Michigan ARNG, the American Samoa ARNG, and the ARNG Professional Educational Center to name a few. These partnerships assist the ARNG and universities alike by increasing the training, educational, and recruitment throughout. 

Dr. HECK. What is ARCYBER’s Training Readiness Authority plan? 

General ODIERNO. Like other Army units, Army Cyber conducts training and 

readiness reporting to meet the requirements established by regulation and law. For 

the Cyber Mission Force teams, the developing USCYBERCOM Training and Readiness (T&R) Manual will serve as the guideline for Cyber Mission Force (CMF) readiness. Currently, the T&R manual has draft core Mission Essential Tasks (METs) 

that were derived from DOD Universal Joint Task List (UJTL); when finalized, 

these METs will provide a common set of tasks against which like teams can train 

and assess readiness. When approved, Army Cyber Command will use the 

USCYBERCOM T&R Manual as our fundamental tool to build and maintain CMF 

team readiness. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. BROOKS 

Mr. BROOKS. I would like to compliment the Army on the successful execution of 

the ITEP program (Improved Turbine Engine Program) to date. It incorporates competition, best business practices, acquisition reform measures and helps maintain a 

cutting edge technological and industrial base. Unlike many of the recent unsuccessful aviation programs, this one has valid, unchanging requirements and is executing 

and testing very successfully. It benefits from strong Congressional support and 

Army/Industry partnering. This is critical because the ITEP investment benefits 

both the current Black Hawk and Apache fleet, and reduces risk for the next generation Future Vertical Lift helicopter. I encourage the Army to sufficiently fund 

ITEP to maintain program momentum and a 12–18 month Technology Maturity/ 

Risk Reduction phase. I appreciate your continued support of this priority program 

and we all look forward to the increased capability and tremendous fuel and cost 

savings ITEP provides. 

Secretary MCHUGH and General ODIERNO. Improved Turbine Engine Program 

(ITEP) remains an important component of the Army Aviation modernization strategy. This engine upgrade program will allow the Army’s current fleet of Black Hawk 

and Apache helicopters to perform their full range of missions in high/hot environ-
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ments like Iraq and Afghanistan, while simultaneously achieving much needed reductions in fuel consumption and flying hour costs. While the Army faces significant 

fiscal pressures in the current budget environment, we plan to continue funding 

ITEP at previously planned levels through the Technology Maturity/Risk Reduction 

phase of the program. The Army requested $79.9M for ITEP in FY14 and received 

full funding. The Army is requesting $39.3M for this effort in FY15. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. NUGENT 

Mr. NUGENT. Concerning the Department of the Army’s proposed cuts to the 

Army National Guard—the Adjutants General presented an alternative solution 

that paid the Army National Guard portion of the BCA bill while sustaining higher 

capability and force structure for the National Guard, and therefore for the Army. 

(1) Why was this proposal rejected? (2) Given the lack of agreement on the best way 

to ‘‘right-size’’ the Army, what opposition do you have to establishing an independent commission to make recommendations on appropriate force structure for all 

three components? (3) Will you support taking the next 9–12 months to conduct a 

comprehensive study of the proper AC/RC force mix and how the structure should 

be best tailored to fulfill mission requirements that are consistent with available resources? 

Secretary MCHUGH. The Army strongly opposes an independent force structure 

commission on the grounds that it is unnecessary and untimely. Our restructure initiative is based on a comprehensive Total Force study. It was an open process and 

we received input from many parties, including the National Guard Bureau. We are 

confident we have reached the right conclusions. Further, a commission would essentially freeze our end strength in place, which will prevent us from beginning to 

implement necessary changes and force the Army to make severe cuts to readiness 

and modernization programs, neither of which has adequate funding right now. Additionally, an independent review of the Army’s plans has already been conducted 

by the Office of the Secretary of Defense Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation. 

Make no mistake, the recommendations we have proposed have been forced on us 

by the Budget Control Act’s spending caps. We would prefer not to make these 

changes, but unless something is done to adjust the BCA caps beginning in fiscal 

year 2016, these changes will become unavoidable. 

Regarding the ‘‘$1.7B NGB Proposal,’’ it was considered independently by the Secretary of the Army and the Secretary of Defense and was rejected by both, because 

it does not meet the Defense Strategic Guidance without additional investment; it 

decreases fulfillment of Combatant Command contingency plans and steady-state 

operational requirements; it reduces the readiness of the Army National Guard; and 

it increases costs in comparison to the Department of the Army plan. Due to the 

Budget Control Act (BCA), Army Aviation’s total obligation authority for aircraft 

modernization and acquisition has been reduced by $3B per year through FY19, and 

training and sustainment dollars are reduced by 40 percent from FY12 levels. These 

reductions make the previously approved (pre-BCA) Aviation Force Structure and 

Aircraft Modernization plans untenable, requiring a new approach. 

Prior to the BCA, Army Aviation’s modernization and force structure plan was to 

continue to grow the Active component to 13 Combat Aviation Brigades (CAB); continue to modernize the AH–64 Apache, UH–60 Blackhawk, and CH–47 Chinook helicopter fleets; upgrade the OH–58D Kiowa Warrior (at a cost of $10B); and conduct 

a costly service life extension program (SLEP) or even more costly replacement of 

the aging TH–67 training fleet. The Army National Guard and Army Reserves 

would continue to receive modernized UH–60, AH–64 and CH–47 aircraft and retain 

all of their structure. 

To continue with the original aircraft modernization plan under BCA constraints 

(upgrade OH–58D Kiowa Warrior, continue to modernize the AH–64, UH–60 and 

CH–47 fleets, and SLEP TH–67) would require the deactivation of 5 Active and Reserve aviation brigades and the divestment of their associated aircraft (¥464 aircraft). This would have been a significant loss of structure and numbers of modernized AH–64, UH–60 and CH–47 aircraft, just to retain the costly legacy OH–58D 

and TH–67 aircraft. For that reason, I directed a fundamental reassessment of Aviation structure in the Active, National Guard and Reserve forces. My guidance was 

to determine the best force structure and modernization balance to retain the most 

capabilities and capacity in highest demand by our Combatant Commanders and recurring civil and homeland defense requirements. 

The new approach, known as the Aviation Restructure Initiative (ARI), uses the 

Budget Control Act level force and does not add cost to the Army’s budget. ARI calls 

for reducing and reconfiguring the number of Active aviation brigades from 13 to 
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10, which enables the retention of one aviation brigade per Active component division. The Reserve component will retain 12 Aviation Brigades but will be restructured to a common organizational structure for 10 Brigades optimized for assault, 

lift, and MEDEVAC missions—most in demand for Defense Support of Civil Authorities (DSCA) missions. 

To execute ARI, we will divest 338 OH–58D Kiowa Warriors and use the previously designated OH–58D cockpit upgrade dollars to reinvest in the training base 

and other modernization efforts. We will transfer all of the AH–64s from the National Guard to the Active component and use the AH–64, teamed with unmanned 

systems, in armed reconnaissance squadrons to replace the loss of the Kiowa Warrior Squadrons in the Active component. We will transfer 159 X UH–60s from the 

Active component to convert 4 of 10 Reserve component AH–64 Battalions to UH– 

60 (2 USAR and 2 ARNG). The National Guard will gain 111 UH–60s and the 

USAR will gain 48 UH–60s over current structure. We will divest the legacy TH– 

67 and OH–58A/C training fleet and replace them with UH–72A Lakota helicopters 

taken from the Active component and 100 newly procured Lakotas. In a compromise 

with the National Guard, the Office of the Secretary of Defense directed the Army 

to procure the 100 new Lakotas to address concerns raised by the Guard during the 

planning process for ARI. The National Guard will retain all of their 212 UH–72As 

specially equipped for the southwest border mission and other requirements in permissive, non-combat environments. This will give us a modernized, next generation 

glass cockpit, dual engine training helicopter. These aircraft will train all new Army 

aviators, regardless of component. 

Eliminating three of seven entire fleets of legacy aircraft (OH58D Kiowa Warrior, 

TH67, OH58A/C), remissioning Apache helicopters to the armed reconnaissance role 

in addition to their traditional attack role, dual-purposing our UH–72A Lakota helicopters for both the homeland defense role and initial pilot training, and growing 

our lift helicopter fleets in the Army National Guard will allow us to retain the 

maximum force structure and modernized aircraft across the Total Army to meet 

the demand for Aviation across the Combatant Commands and States. 

Although the resulting rotary-wing force will be smaller by 798 aircraft to preBCA levels and cuts fall disproportionately on the Active component (¥23 percent) 

versus the National Guard (¥8 percent), divesting the OH–58 and TH–67 fleets and 

moving the AH–64s from the RC to the AC allows us to preserve two additional 

Combat Aviation Brigades and improve the quality of Aviation Training while retaining a fully modernized aviation force across the Total Army. 

The NGB proposal, actually increases costs. While the NGB proposal appears neutral with respect to the ARNG budget, it does not account for the significant increase that would occur to the $3.25B per year that the Department of the Army 

already funds from the Regular Army budget to support the Army Guard. Specifically, the NGB proposal does not account for increases of $300M annually for additional end strength and structure related costs such as basic combat training, specialized skill training, contractor maintenance support, payroll processing and officer accessions. Nor does it account for a $350M annual increase in aviation operations and sustainment type costs and the $4B one-time cost that would result from 

not executing the Aviation Restructure Initiative as planned. 

The NGB proposal decreases readiness by reducing Operations and Maintenance 

funding that is used to resource Soldier, unit and facilities readiness. The proposal 

funds only 50-to-80 percent of required duty MOS, functional and professional development training, resulting in significant numbers of Guardsmen assigned to units 

untrained in their military duties and leadership responsibilities. The proposal reduces unit readiness, with only two Guard BCTs funded above individual-crewsquad level of readiness. The proposal’s reductions to readiness would lengthen postmobilization training that ARNG units require to respond to Combatant Command 

operational and contingency requirements, decreasing the Army Guard’s viability as 

an operational reserve. The proposal also decreases MILCON funding by $100M per 

year and decreases facilities sustainment funding, negatively impacting Army 

Guard infrastructure. 

The NGB proposal does not accurately capture the cost of turbulence. The Department of the Army estimated and budgeted turbulence costs at $310M over five 

years, or approximately $62M per year. The NGB estimated turbulence costs at 

$1B, but this estimate included $275M in costs to implement the Aviation Restructure Initiative that are already accounted for in the Regular Army budget; $360M 

in facilities upgrades for unit conversions that have not been substantiated; and 

$55M in additional recruiting costs that the Department of the Army believes is excessive and unnecessary given the reduction of the force. 

The NGB proposal also does not accurately depict the impact of turbulence. OSD 

and Army leadership have testified to their desire to maintain ARNG end strength 
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at 335K as part of a 450K/335K/195K force, which would significantly reduce turbulence if full BCA/sequester cuts can be avoided. NGB turbulence projections of the 

Department of the Army plan are overstated in that they represent a highly-unlikely absolute-worst-case that every possible position associated with potential 

structure adjustments is impacted. Even if the worst case were realized, the average 

annual turbulence that would result during the five-year period of implementation 

would be less than the approximately 15 percent annual turnover the Army Guard 

experiences due to normal attrition. 

Finally, the NGB proposal increases strategic and operational risk by reducing required unit readiness and operational responsiveness in order to preserve less-ready 

force structure. The proposal reduces the Total Army’s ability to meet Combatant 

Commander contingency plans and steady-state operational requirements, extending 

the length of operations at increased risk to mission accomplishment and likelihood 

of additional casualties. Because the NGB proposal costs more and does not meet 

BCA-driven funding reductions, it would require additional reductions of $650M per 

year to other accounts, further degrading readiness and equipment modernization. 

The NGB proposal decreases readiness, increases risk, costs more, and violates the 

defense strategic guidance. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. COOK 

Mr. COOK. After cancelling 7 brigade level trainings at the Combat Training Centers in 2013, your statement indicates that the Bipartisan Budget Agreement permits 19 BCT trainings in FY15. Do you anticipate funding all 19 trainings in FY15? 

And what do you estimate the impact would be for training in FY16 if sequestration 

persists? 

General ODIERNO. Yes, if the Army receives funding levels supported by the Bipartisan Budget Agreement then 18 Brigade Combat Teams (BCTs) will conduct full 

rotations at maneuver Combat Training Centers (CTCs) in FY15, with another BCT 

joining a Combat Aviation Brigade and Special Operations forces in an aviation exercise. If sequestration persists in FY16, we will be required to significantly reduce 

home station training in order to fund CTC rotations, which will impact our overall 

readiness posture. 

The reduction in home station training may preclude the full training progression 

of some BCT’s prior to execution of a CTC rotation. Without the benefit of sufficient 

home station training, BCTs could begin the CTC rotation at a lower level of training readiness. As a result, CTC rotations may not produce the maximum BCT capability, in terms of training readiness. 

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