U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office,

http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center,

U.S. Government Printing Office. Phone 202–512–1800, or 866–512–1800 (toll-free). E-mail, gpo@custhelp.com.

i 

71–453 2012

[H.A.S.C. No. 112–82] 

ARMY ACQUISITION AND 

MODERNIZATION PROGRAMS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON TACTICAL 

AIR AND LAND FORCES 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

OCTOBER 26, 2011 
(II) 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON TACTICAL AIR AND LAND FORCES 

ROSCOE G. BARTLETT, Maryland, Chairman 

FRANK A. LOBIONDO, New Jersey 

JOHN C. FLEMING, M.D., Louisiana 

TOM ROONEY, Florida 

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania 

VICKY HARTZLER, Missouri 

JON RUNYAN, New Jersey 

MARTHA ROBY, Alabama 

WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina 

W. TODD AKIN, Missouri 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL TURNER, Ohio 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado 

SILVESTRE REYES, Texas 

MIKE MCINTYRE, North Carolina 

JIM COOPER, Tennessee 

GABRIELLE GIFFORDS, Arizona 

NIKI TSONGAS, Massachusetts 

LARRY KISSELL, North Carolina 

MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico 

BILL OWENS, New York 

JOHN R. GARAMENDI, California 

MARK S. CRITZ, Pennsylvania 

KATHLEEN C. HOCHUL, New York 

JOHN WASON, Professional Staff Member 

DOUG BUSH, Professional Staff Member 

SCOTT BOUSUM, Staff Assistant 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF HEARINGS 

2011 

Page 

HEARING: 

Wednesday, October 26, 2011, Army Acquisition and Modernization Programs ..................................................................................................................... 1 

APPENDIX: 

Wednesday, October 26, 2011 ................................................................................. 27 

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2011 

ARMY ACQUISITION AND MODERNIZATION PROGRAMS 

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS 

Bartlett, Hon. Roscoe G., a Representative from Maryland, Chairman, Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land Forces ...................................................... 1 

Reyes, Hon. Silvestre, a Representative from Texas, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land Forces ...................................................... 2 

WITNESSES 

Lennox, LTG Robert P., USA, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Army, G–8 ............. 4 

Martin, Belva M., Director, Acquisition and Sourcing Management, U.S. Government Accountability Office ............................................................................. 6 

Phillips, LTG William N., USA, Military Deputy to the Assistant Secretary 

of the Army (Acquisition, Logistics and Technology) ........................................ 5 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Bartlett, Hon. Roscoe G. .................................................................................. 31 

Lennox, LTG Robert P., joint with LTG William N. Phillips ....................... 37 

Martin, Belva M. .............................................................................................. 50 

Reyes, Hon. Silvestre ....................................................................................... 34 

DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

[There were no Documents submitted.] 

WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING THE HEARING: 

Mr. Bartlett ....................................................................................................... 71 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING: 

Mr. Bartlett ....................................................................................................... 75 

Mr. Owens ......................................................................................................... 82 

Mrs. Roby .......................................................................................................... 79 

(1) 

ARMY ACQUISITION AND MODERNIZATION PROGRAMS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON TACTICAL AIR AND LAND FORCES, Washington, DC, Wednesday, October 26, 2011. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:00 p.m., in room 

2118, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roscoe G. Bartlett 

(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ROSCOE G. BARTLETT, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM MARYLAND, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON TACTICAL AIR AND LAND FORCES 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you for joining us. Today the Tactical Air 

and Land Force Subcommittee meets to receive an update on Army 

acquisition and modernization programs. 

I would like to thank our witnesses for being here today. They 

are Lieutenant General Robert Lennox, Deputy Chief of Staff of the 

Army, G–8; Lieutenant General William Phillips, Military Deputy 

to the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Acquisition, Logistics, 

and Technology; and Ms. Belva Martin, Government Accountability 

Office, Director of Acquisition and Sourcing Team. 

Since the subcommittee last received testimony from Army leaders, there have been many programmatic changes to major Army 

programs. In addition to what I have stated before, major reductions in the Federal budget need to be a major element of correcting the Federal budget deficit. The Department of Defense 

must share in a fair and balanced way in these reductions. That 

process is already taking place under the Budget Control Act of 

2011, with nearly $500 billion in cuts planned for DOD [Department of Defense] over the next 10 years. Further cuts beyond the 

$400–$500 billion are possible, up to approximately one trillion dollars total over 10 years, under what Secretary Panetta has called 

the doomsday mechanism sequestration provision of the Budget 

Control Act. 

It remains unclear how DOD would apportion funding reductions 

and how funding reductions will impact Army modernization programs. 

The purpose of today’s hearing is to get an update from the witnesses as to what changes may have to be made in their proposed 

acquisition programs in fiscal year 2012. We would like to hear 

from our witnesses what their major issues and concerns are. What 

should our Members be most aware of as the fiscal year 2012 request is finalized in Congress? 

Finally, we would like to know the views of our witnesses on 

what potential impacts to Army capabilities could occur, particu-
2 

larly in light of the possible reductions in the Army’s procurement 

and R&D [Research and Development] budgets. 

A couple of examples of our concerns are what we understand to 

be the Army’s top two modernization priorities, the Ground Combat 

Vehicle [GCV] and the network. 

The GCV program received Milestone A approval, entry into the 

technology development phase, in August of 2011. Although the 

program is currently under a General Accounting Office [GAO] protest, we do expect to learn more about the GCV acquisition strategy and requirement stemming from the most recent Office of the 

Secretary of Defense [OSD] acquisition decision memorandum. And 

for the network, we would like to learn more about how the recent 

Network Integration Exercises at Fort Bliss and White Sands Missile Range are helping the Army make informed budget decisions. 

Most recently, Congress was informed that the Ground Mobile 

Radio [GMR], part of the Joint Tactical Radio System [JTRS] and 

the network, was terminated as a result of the Nunn-McCurdy 

process. 

I thank all of you for your service to our country and for being 

here today, and I look forward to your testimony. 

Now to my very good friend from Texas, the ranking member, 

Mr. Reyes. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Bartlett can be found in the Appendix on page 31.] 

STATEMENT OF HON. SILVESTRE REYES, A REPRESENTATIVE 

FROM TEXAS, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON TACTICAL AIR AND LAND FORCES 

Mr. REYES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me add my welcome to all of the guests here this afternoon. 

Today’s hearing on Army modernization comes at a critical juncture for the future of the U.S. Army. On the one hand, with the 

end of war in Iraq, the Army may finally have a chance to improve 

dwell time for troops and their families and also to repair worn-out 

equipment. 

At the same time, the war in Afghanistan continues, and the 

Army still has to be prepared to deploy troops to Korea and other 

potential flash points. 

And finally, laid on top of those demands, the Army is conducting 

a planned drawdown in the size of the Army from 567,000 ActiveDuty troops to around 520,000. 

Balancing those three factors will no doubt, as the chairman 

pointed out, be difficult. 

When one turns to the issue of modernizing the Army’s equipment, I think it is important to remember what has been accomplished over the past 10 years. 

First, the Army has fielded hundreds of UAVs [unmanned aerial 

vehicles] and other ISR [intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance] platforms that give today’s soldiers far more capability to 

find the enemy and to understand their intentions. 

Second, the Army has upgraded almost its entire vehicle fleet 

from Abrams tanks to trucks to Strykers to MRAPs [Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles]. 
3 

Third, the Army now provides personal soldier equipment vastly 

improved over what the troops were issued in 2001, including better body armor and personal weapons. 

Fourth, the Army continues to invest in aviation capability, increasing both the quantity and the quality of helicopters in its 

force. 

Fifth, the Army is working hard to get more network communications equipment in the field, including the large-scale ‘‘Network Integration Exercises’’ at Fort Bliss in my district. 

Sixth, so while some programs didn’t work out as planned, a lot 

of very smart investments were made and today’s Army is better 

equipped than ever before. 

However, the Army must continue to modernize in critical areas, 

to stay ahead and to plan for future threats. I felt that the modernization plan presented the Army at our hearing in April was a 

solid one, integrated plan for moving the Army forward on its top 

priorities which were pushing the network down to the soldiers, 

continuing to expand aviation capability, and third, investing in 

programs for the future. 

However, since that hearing, Congress passed the Budget Control Act that will cut $450 billion from DOD’s budget over the next 

10 years. Additional cuts may come from the supercommittee and 

certainly are a concern, since they may be possible. 

How the Army plans to deal with those reductions in fiscal year 

2012 is a major issue, I believe, for today’s hearing. While I am 

confident the Army will do its best to adapt, I am concerned that 

disproportional cuts to modernization may be doing real damage to 

the future of our Army. 

Too often discussions about, quote unquote, what the Army needs 

are focused exclusively on today’s fight, even though Army leaders 

have to also focus on being ready for whatever the next challenge 

or conflict may be. 

The Ground Combat Vehicle is one example. With the Army 

planning only incremental upgrades to Abrams and Bradley fighting vehicles in the future, it is clear that the Army must start investing now in the vehicle it will need in the 2020s. Despite the 

need, the GCV has already been delayed for months by contract 

delays and protests. If it does not move forward soon, then the 

Army won’t have any new combat vehicles in development. 

The Joint Air-to-Ground Missile, or JAGM, is another example. 

While Hellfire missiles are doing a great job today, in the future 

the Army will need a more capable missile to defeat advanced 

countermeasures from longer ranges. If it is terminated, as some 

press reports have suggested, then the future Army won’t have the 

best missiles available and the Nation might lose critical missile 

research and development capability. 

Overall, I am concerned that the Army’s investments in critical 

future capabilities could bear the brunt of reductions in the Army’s 

budget. 

Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to hearing from 

our panel about the future of those programs and other concerns 

that may be on their minds. And with that, I yield back to you, Mr. 

Chairman. 
4 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Reyes can be found in the Appendix on page 34.] 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. We will proceed now with 

the panel’s testimony and then go into questions. Without objection, all witnesses’ prepared statements will be included in the 

hearing record. 

General Lennox, please proceed with your opening remarks and 

you will be followed by General Phillips and Ms. Martin. Thank 

you. 

STATEMENT OF LTG ROBERT P. LENNOX, USA, DEPUTY CHIEF 

OF STAFF OF THE ARMY, G–8 

General LENNOX. Good afternoon Chairman Bartlett, Congressman Reyes, and members of the committee. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify on Army acquisition and 

modernization. We will be providing the committee with an update 

on our Army’s Affordable Modernization Strategy, its processes, 

and the changes in key programs since our last meeting in the 

spring. 

On behalf of Secretary McHugh and General Odierno, I would 

like to take this opportunity to thank the members of this committee for your steadfast support and shared commitment in this 

endeavor to provide the more than 1 million men and women in 

our Army with world-class weapon systems and equipment to ensure mission success in combat. 

The Army’s equipment modernization goal is to develop and field 

a versatile and affordable mix of equipment to allow soldiers and 

units to succeed across a spectrum of conflict both today and tomorrow, and to maintain our decisive advantage over any enemy that 

we face. 

Our first priority is to win today’s fight. We currently have over 

70,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and about 50,000 soldiers still serving in Iraq. And we must not forget them as they continue to serve 

them in harm’s way, and I know this panel feels the same way. 

Our second priority is to prepare for the future. To do this, our 

equipment modernization strategy provides a balanced approach 

and features really three aspects. 

The first is we look at our portfolios in an integrated way trying 

to balance requirements, resources, and the acquisition process. 

And we have very consistent reviews of those portfolios. 

Secondly, we are focusing on incremental modernization. We are 

trying to deliver improved capabilities as technologies mature, resources are available, and necessity dictates. 

And third, we feel that in an ARFORGEN [Army Force Generation] matter, and that is really trying to match equipment with the 

mission that the soldiers are going to deploy on. So we will match 

equipment that they need, modernized for the mission that they 

have got. 

We look forward to discussing our priority modernization programs which include the network, Ground Combat Vehicle, Joint 

Light Tactical Vehicle [JLTV], the Paladin program, Kiowa Warrior, and others. 

We recognize that we must shape the Army of 2020 with the understanding of our national security obligations and the current fis-
5 

cal crisis. We will constantly reform how we do business to remain 

good stewards of the resources that are provided to us, and we recognize that we may have a smaller Army in the future, but that 

smaller Army must be trained and equipped to defeat any adversary. 

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I thank you again for 

your steadfast and generous support of the outstanding men and 

women of the United States Army, of Army civilians and their families, and we look forward to your questions. 

[The joint prepared statement of General Lennox and General 

Phillips can be found in the Appendix on page 37.] 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. General Phillips. 

STATEMENT OF LTG WILLIAM N. PHILLIPS, USA, MILITARY 

DEPUTY TO THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY (ACQUISITION, LOGISTICS AND TECHNOLOGY) 

General PHILLIPS. Chairman Bartlett, Ranking Member Reyes 

and distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the 

opportunity to appear before you and to discuss Army acquisition 

modernization and our acquisition strategies. I am really proud 

and honored to be here with my battle buddy, Lieutenant General 

Bob Lennox, and Ms. Martin from the GAO [Government Accountability Office]. 

Throughout our Affordable Modernization Strategy we are dedicated to meeting the needs of our soldiers around the world and 

around the clock. 

We thank you for your wisdom and your strong support for our 

soldiers and their families. The Army acquisition community is 

committed to delivering enhanced capabilities to our soldiers in a 

timely and affordable manner. The Army has undertaken a number 

of efficiencies, initiatives, including streamlining the acquisition 

process to focus on collaboration among stakeholders early and upfront in the process, to properly align requirements and resources 

with our acquisition strategy, and we are closely examining technological maturity to achieve realistic program goals. 

We are encouraging competition and innovative contracting 

strategies in order to control costs. We are a full partner in the Department of Defense Better Buying Initiatives. In fact, we are now 

and we have been for the past year changing the paradigm within 

Army acquisition and within the thought process of Army acquisition leaders as it relates to cost, schedule, and performance. We are 

aggressively challenging requirements and seeking tradeoffs that 

achieve greater affordability and executability of programs. We 

cannot afford any requirement at any cost. 

We are implementing smarter test and evaluation strategies to 

get real-time soldier feedback, leveraging the Network Integration 

Exercise at White Sands Missile Range in Fort Bliss, and certainly 

we invite all of you, the members of this committee, to visit us out 

at Fort Bliss and White Sands Missile Range. 

We are codifying our rapid acquisition procedures and introducing testing and prototyping earlier in the development cycle as 

other ways to reduce costs and risks, and to achieve more agile acquisition strategies. We must have realistic cost estimating from 

the very beginning of a program that provides insights into indi-
6 

vidual requirements. We take our fiduciary responsibilities to Congress and the American people seriously, and we will take full advantage of every dollar that you provide us. 

Our progress and successes are detailed in the written statement, and I won’t go into them. General Lennox just mentioned 

some of them. MRAP M–ATV [Mine Resistant Ambush Protected 

All-Terrain Vehicle] and Stryker Double V Hull are those that are 

serving today in Afghanistan and saving lives. 

There are others like counter improvised explosive devices [IED]. 

We do continue our efforts to improve soldier protection in body 

armor and vehicles, to bring the power of the network to the individual soldier, and to lighten the load of our soldiers as well. 

Our strategy to meet these needs include conducting capability 

portfolio reviews, and as a result of the Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act, we have also implemented configuration steering 

boards [CSB], of which last year the Army completed 100 percent 

of all of the required CSBs mandated by statute. 

Mr. Chairman, the Army is committed to improving our acquisition processes and delivering affordable programs that meet the 

needs of our soldiers today and tomorrow. We cannot fail. Our soldiers trust us that we will provide them the very best equipment 

so that they can succeed on the field of battle and that one day 

they can return home safely to their families and their friends. We 

cannot betray their trust. 

In executing our responsibilities we will ensure that the Army remains the Nation’s force for decisive action. 

Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of this subcommittee, 

your deep and abiding commitment to our men and women in uniform is widely recognized throughout our ranks. We thank you for 

your continued support that ensures mission success and the safe 

return home of our soldiers. 

I look forward to your questions, Mr. Chairman. 

[The joint prepared statement of General Phillips and General 

Lennox can be found in the Appendix on page 37.] 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. Ms. Martin. 

STATEMENT OF BELVA M. MARTIN, DIRECTOR, ACQUISITION 

AND SOURCING MANAGEMENT, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

Ms. MARTIN. Chairman Bartlett, Ranking Member Reyes and 

members of the subcommittee, I am pleased to be here today to discuss the Army recent modernization efforts. I will summarize my 

prepared statement. 

As background, the Army has faced some struggles in its modernization program since terminating their Future Combat System, 

known as FCS, in June of 2009. 

I would now like to highlight four key areas. 

First, when GAO testified before this subcommittee in March, we 

raised issues about GCV in the areas of urgency of the need, cost 

and affordability, analysis of alternatives to meet the need, and 

plausibility of delivering a production vehicle in 7 years. While 

DOD and the Army have increased their oversight of the program, 

these questions are still relevant, and it is expected that they will 

be fully explored during the current technology development phase. 
7 

The Army has a challenge ahead to identify a feasible and cost-effective solution to meet its needs. 

Second, during the recently completed technology development 

phase, the Army and the Marine Corps learned that some of their 

original projected requirements for JLTV were not achievable. The 

services are now planning to have industry build prototypes for 

testing before a production decision to save time and money. However, there is a risk with this strategy. Even with demonstrated 

prototypes, skipping the detailed design and development testing 

process could result in the services discovering late that the vehicles are still not mature. 

In a related effort, the Army is modernizing portions of its UpArmored Humvees [High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle] 

to improve blast protection and extend its service life by 15 years, 

among other requirements. 

Third, the Army has moved away from its plan for a single network program and is now using an incremental approach where it 

builds on capabilities already in place and is getting soldier feedback, as you mentioned, White Sands and Fort Bliss. This is a positive development. However, to avoid potentially wasting resources 

by developing a number of stovepipe capabilities that may not work 

together, it is important for the Army to define requirements for 

the network. 

One network program that has been in development for over a 

decade was recently terminated, and you referred to the Ground 

Mobile Radio Program, and it was expected to be a key component 

of the network. The Army still has a need for software defined radios, and they expect industry to provide capability to meet some 

of this need through a competitive market but has not yet defined 

an acquisition strategy. 

Finally, as we have discussed, there is still much to be determined on GCV, JLTV, and the network. For example, what is the 

best option for Ground Combat Vehicles? Is it a new vehicle or 

modification to a current one? Can the services afford both the 

JLTV and the Humvee Recap effort? 

The Army has gotten positive results from its capability portfolio 

reviews, and, as General Lennox mentioned, they are able to look 

beyond the individual program to identify overlaps and set priorities. On both JLTV and GCVs, as the requirements have been examined more closely, the Army is finding that it can live with less 

in terms of capabilities, and has been able to reduce costs. It is important that these reviews continue in the future and that the 

Army considers a broad range of alternatives. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This concludes my short statement. 

I will be happy to answer questions from you or members of the 

subcommittee. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Martin can be found in the Appendix on page 50.] 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you all very much for your testimony. As 

is my usual practice I will reserve my questions until last, hoping 

they will have been asked. So I now turn to my ranking member, 

Mr. Reyes. 
8 

Mr. REYES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me start with the 

Ground Combat Vehicle, which is the Army’s number one priority, 

vehicle development program. 

And now we know that in an unusual move, the Army has 

awarded two contracts to begin design work on the vehicle. But we 

are also told it is also evaluating current off-the-shelf options, including a modified M2 Bradley and an Israeli-designed personnel 

carrier. 

So three questions that I have. What is the expected cost of these 

off-the-shelf vehicle evaluations? When will the Army have results 

that it can share with the committee? And third, did the Army 

want to do these evaluations or were they forced on the Army by 

OSD acquisition officials? 

General LENNOX. Congressman Reyes, if I could take one or two 

of those parts, and then ask General Phillips to help on the costing 

information. 

We in conjunction with OSD came up with this strategy and I 

think it is a very good one. As you know, the Ground Combat Vehicle is the vehicle that carries our infantry soldiers, the ones closest 

to combat. It is going to be the one that has to provide the requisite 

protection, and we have learned over the last 10 years that protection—every vehicle we make, we end up adding more to it to increase protection for soldiers. And this will be the first vehicle that 

will be built from the ground up to do that protection. 

We think we have a very good path that looks at both developmental systems and non-developmental systems over the next 2 

years, approximately 2 years. And I think by this time next year, 

we ought to have a good idea of looking at alternatives and costing 

them to see what path might be the best and, at the same time we 

are doing that, looking at developmental systems and non-developmental systems, we are going to be looking at requirements. 

As Ms. Martin said, do we have them right, are they affordable, 

how much extra power or how much protection is enough, and all 

of these things come with costs, so do we have this right or not. 

And we will be reviewing that and we think we have a very good 

approach for getting that protection that we need for our soldiers. 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, I would add a couple of things. Through 

all the costing that Ms. Martin actually defined very well, that we 

went through on GCV, we found out that we think we could bring 

this vehicle in for about 9–10.5 million and that is actually what 

was inside the RFP [request for proposal] and what we are holding 

the two industry partners to the standard. We don’t yet know what 

the non-developmental items will cost yet. That’s why we are going 

to go out and take a more deeper look at the vehicles that you just 

described, the stretch Bradley and others, and potentially a Stryker 

that we will take out to the desert. 

Most importantly, we will take those vehicles out to White 

Sands, and we will be able to put them in the hands of soldiers and 

let them crawl around on them, use them in an operationally relevant environment so we can learn as much from them as possible. 

Sir, I will make one other statement. We were not forced to do 

this in any way. It was a full partnership with OSD and the Army 

to go down this path. 
9 

And one other statement, sir, real quick. GCV is incredibly important to the Army. After 10 years of war, we know that we need 

an advanced infantry fighting vehicle to better protect our soldiers, 

and this will be the first vehicle built from the ground up to operate in an IED environment. When we look at attrition of vehicles 

down range, the Bradley is the second-most attrited vehicle. Now, 

we haven’t had them in combat since I believe 2007, 2008. So early 

up in the conflict, they were getting attrited because of combat 

losses. We need a vehicle that can withstand the rigor of combat 

full spectrum. GCV we think is that vehicle. 

Mr. REYES. So again, building one from the ground up and also 

testing, for instance, the Israeli vehicle and also the stretch Bradley, as it is commonly called, moving on parallel paths, at what 

point do you think that we are going to be able to make a decision? 

Is that within the next 12 months? 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, probably in about the next 18 months. It 

will be 24 months to Milestone B, through the technology development phase. So in about 18 months, we will have better informed 

ourselves of the requirements, what type of NDI [non-developmental item] solutions might be out there. And that might inform 

us is there another vehicle out there with an NDI-like solution that 

we could use. So, sir, in about 18 to 24 months, we will be able to 

come back to the committee and let you know where we stand on 

that piece, sir. 

Mr. REYES. Are there any concerns or reservations budgetwise in 

being able to keep this on track? I know it is Army’s number one 

priority, but all of us are very much concerned as to what comes 

out of this in the next 30 days or so. 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, I will let General Lennox jump on this. 

But GCV is fully funded throughout—beyond the budget years and 

through the POM [program objective memorandum] years as well, 

so we are fully confident that we can execute the strategy, the acquisition strategy, and that we will work with our partners to able 

to make sure that it remains affordable. 

What is critical getting to Milestone B is that we want the best 

information possible as we execute Milestone B in 24 months. So 

we might refine the requirements and do more cost-informed trades 

as we go down the path. That is why the NDI solutions and taking 

the vehicles out and putting them out in the desert and putting 

them in the hands of soldiers will inform us better to make those 

potential trades. 

General LENNOX. Sir, you asked if we are worried about funding 

and the answer is yes. Clearly we don’t know the future for 2012 

and out. We have prioritized this in the Army’s funding, as you 

mentioned, but there is a lot of unknowns ahead for all of us, I 

think. 

Mr. REYES. Thank you. 

I will reserve my other questions for later, Mr. Chairman. I yield 

back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. Mr. Runyan. 

Mr. RUNYAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for 

your testimony. 

You kind of answered in a roundabout way my first question 

about there not being procurement in fiscal year 2012 for the 
10 

Humvee, but as you talk about up-armoring these vehicles, what 

is the life expectancy of the vehicle and are you actually wearing 

on it more by up-armoring it? 

General LENNOX. I think you have hit upon an important tradeoff for us. We are doing three things with our Light Tactical Vehicles. We are doing a recap today of the existing vehicles that are 

coming out of combat, and we are worried about the weight of 

those vehicles carrying armor. They are at about their capacity. So 

that is a big concern. 

The second thing we are doing is we are looking at potential of 

what you can do with this fleet of 150,000 Humvees we have today 

in a program we call the MECV, and I hate to confuse everybody 

with acronyms. It is the Modernized Expanded Capability Vehicle, 

and we are experimenting over the next couple of years to see if 

there is something you can do with this platform that could bring 

new life to this vehicle. So that is a second thing that we are doing. 

And the third is we are looking at the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle, and we just recently worked very, very hard with the Marine 

Corps to come to reasonable, affordable requirements of this vehicle. And our strategy is to do that side by side with the MECV, the 

JLTV and the MECV, in about 2 to 3 years, after looking at what 

industry can do, make a decision about the way forward informed 

by what industry can provide us. 

Mr. RUNYAN. So in that decision process, are you—is your readiness at a disadvantage there? Are you going to have an influx of 

MRAPs or whatever in there also? 

General LENNOX. In the interim, sir, you are exactly right. We 

will be leveraging the MRAPs and the MRAP ATVs. We have about 

25,000 of those, compared to 150,000 Light Tactical Vehicles. So it 

is not enough with MRAPs and MRAP ATVs but it is a sufficient 

mitigator for soldiers in combat today. That is what we are using 

in combat. 

Mr. RUNYAN. Next question I had was more—obviously, the 

Abrams is going to be in service for, what, another 34 years, and 

we kind of fell short on updating that in its full efficiency. How do 

you guys look forward to actually making that feasible because the 

numbers I am looking at, it saves about a billion and a half in efficiencies over the lifespan. 

General LENNOX. Congressman, I think that is a big concern. 

How do you modernize all of your combat vehicles while you are 

trying to transform and get a new combat vehicle, the Ground 

Combat Vehicle? How do you improve the ones you have to keep 

them relevant? And then we have another grouping in there that 

simply have to be replaced, our M113s. 

So what we have tried to do is prioritize, and because the 

Abrams is still the most capable main battle tank in the world, we 

have prioritized that lower than some of the other things. And 

what we approach it with is to do an engineering change proposal 

and get at some of the space, weight, and power issues now, and 

then look for a longer-term improvement that gets at some of the 

concerns that you raise—energy usage, better capabilities for the 

future. 

Mr. RUNYAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. Mr. Kissell. 
11 

Mr. KISSELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I welcome our panel 

that is here today for a very important conversation. 

And I want to follow up a little bit, kind of in the same neighborhood, and maybe rephrasing the question a little bit about how we 

evaluate our needs. And we know that we have lots of equipment 

left over that we are currently using that will be left over. We 

know that we are engaged in active combat in Afghanistan, pulling 

out of Iraq. 

How much do you feel constrained to base your decisions upon 

the equipment we have now versus what you think we might need 

as we anticipate where the next challenge may be? Are we making 

decisions based upon what we have and kind of thinking maybe the 

next situation will be similar? Or would we really rather break 

with what we have and go to new systems and trying to figure out 

how to do that? I know that is somewhat a complicated question, 

and I just wonder what your thoughts are towards how you see this 

conflict. 

General LENNOX. You have hit the nail on the head in terms of 

the challenges that we face when you do modernization. And one 

of the officers that works for me said it better than anybody else. 

We have kind of an unknown future. We don’t know what the 

threats will be that the Nation faces, but you have to be ready for 

those both today and tomorrow. He likens it to driving down a 

steep cliff in the dark and you can only see out as far as your headlights. And I think that is a good analogy. 

So we try to do incremental modernization so that you make sure 

that what you have today is capable of fighting today, and you 

make the incremental improvements that you can. But in several 

cases, we are trying for transformation in our technologies. An example is the network, our number one priority, to get that down 

to the soldier and empower a soldier today with digital information, 

with data, with voice capabilities. We think that will be a transformation. 

And additionally, the Ground Combat Vehicle. We think that vehicle where we have the most soldiers right in the middle of facing 

combat, we think we need to transform that capability as well. 

So those are really our capabilities that are focusing on transformation. And by and large, the rest of them are focusing on incremental improvements in this period of unknown threat in the future. 

Did that answer your question, sir? 

Mr. KISSELL. Yes, because obviously there is not a right or wrong 

answer here. It is more of where our thoughts are going and how 

we look at balancing this out. And I was just looking for insight 

to that. And I thank you for that. 

Someone mentioned to me—and I welcome anybody answering 

this. Someone mentioned to me that we are cutting back on our 

R&D, that there is so many more ideas we have out there that 

could be useful, but we are cutting back on them because we feel 

constrained, and maybe in part to keep using what we have had. 

Maybe we don’t want to put more resources over to R&D. But it 

was said to me in a way that concerned me, because R&D is the 

lifeblood of—someone mentioned we have got to learn to live with 

less. Well, that living part is what it is all about, because that is 
12 

our soldiers. And we have got to have them living with less but we 

can’t—we have got to make sure we are giving them what we need. 

So do you have any concerns, any of you guys, in terms of R&D; 

are we cutting back too much, are we missing some things that we 

could utilize by not pursuing R&D. 

General PHILLIPS. Congressman, I will start and ask General 

Lennox to weigh in. 

Up front, we are concerned about the budget and how the budget 

will work its way through, and what that will mean for R&D; because as you said, most importantly, work on the projects that we 

want to make sure that we maintain a world-class Army and our 

soldiers with the best equipment in the world, which is what they 

have today. And we can’t stop investing into their future. 

It also has a tremendous impact on small businesses, and I meet 

quite often with small businesses. And the first thing they bring 

up is, what is going to happen with the R&D budget and with 

SBIR [Small Business Innovation Research] programs and others 

that are so critical to the innovative research that is ongoing in 

small businesses today? So as we look at the budget it certainly becomes a balance as was just described, a balance in how much you 

have in R&D and how much you have in the rest of the program 

to be able to push Army modernization forward. We have to sustain that balance. But we must continue to invest at a certain level 

with our R&D programs. 

Mr. KISSELL. I know my time is running out but it is so important that—you know, if you look at so many of our systems now, 

like the UAVs; at one point in time that was R&D, and look what 

it means to us now. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen and ladies, 

once again. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. Now, Mr. Fleming. 

Dr. FLEMING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Contained in my district is Fort Polk, excellent Army base, has 

the Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 4th Brigade of the 10th Mountain Division. Though I served in the Navy, I am told by my Army 

friends, my Marine friends, that your most important tool is your 

rifle. For me in the Navy, it was chow. But for my Army and Marine friends, they say it is your rifle. So I want to ask about that. 

Can you elaborate on the Army’s strategy for procuring a new 

carbine and for improving the current one? I understand there is 

a dual strategy going on with that. Are these strategies affordable 

and do you have adequate funding available in fiscal year 2011 and 

projected in fiscal year 2012? Will this satisfy the requirements of 

USASOC [United States Army Special Operations Command], and 

if not, can you outline their modernization strategy for procuring 

the new carbine? 

General PHILLIPS. Congressman, I will take the question. 

As you said, we do have a dual strategy to upgrade the M4 carbine. And I will say up front, the M4 carbine is a remarkable weapon. The experience that we have in combat operations, we continue 

to measure that. The requirement for the M4 is to have 600 mean 

rounds between systems abort. And we are currently experiencing 

about 3,500. So it is more than five times greater than the current 
13 

requirement. So the current carbine our soldiers are carrying down 

range is very good. 

But we will continue to upgrade that carbine. We are going 

through a series of upgrades. We have already done over 60, and 

through full and open competition we are going to provide additional upgrades for the carbine to enhance it in terms of ambidextrous trigger and also a heavier barrel to give it more capability 

to continue to improve. 

And by the way, we are converting them from M4s to M4A1s. 

Now the other piece of the strategy is we are going to go out and 

look and see if there is an individual carbine that is better than 

the M4 is today or the M4A1. So we issued an RFP and put that 

on the street. We had an Industry Day back 30 March, issued the 

RFP on 29 June. It closes tomorrow. So we will get feedback from 

industry and they will let us know what carbine that they might 

be producing in the commercial world potentially that might fit the 

bill for a new carbine inside the Army. And we are going through 

various phases to be able to determine whether or not industry has 

a better carbine than the current M4A1 is today. And at the end 

of that process, we will do a business case analysis to make sure 

that we are getting it right, because again, our soldiers trust us 

that we are going to give them the best equipment that we can. 

Dr. FLEMING. Thank you for that answer. 

Also, I understand that the JTRS Ground Mobile Radio Program 

has been canceled. Why? And what is the Army doing. 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, great question. 

The Ground Mobile Radio went through a rigorous comprehensive review between the Army and Office of the Secretary of Defense that took about 60 days of intensive review of the program 

itself. Up front I will state that the GMR program itself is critical 

to the Army’s network strategy. We must have a GMR radio that 

will run the wideband networking waveform and the soldier radio 

waveform. Absolutely critical. 

So when we say ‘‘termination,’’ I will use these words. It is a 

graceful termination. The current contract is with Boeing. We are 

going to let that contract expire in March of 2012, and it will terminate on its own. We are not going to renew the contract. But the 

investments that the government has made in GMR, which is significant, and what industry has also made, we know through market research that there is a number of industry partners out there 

that can deliver the hardware to run those two waveforms that I 

just mentioned. 

So part of our strategy is working with industry, leveraging our 

investment, and we will soon put an RFP on the street to ask for 

the hardware from industry, Ground Mobile Radio to run those two 

waveforms, and that will happen probably next month. 

And sir, at the end of the day, this is positive for us. We will get 

this radio quicker. It will be at a lower cost than what the formal 

program would have delivered, and we will get it in what we call 

capability set 13 and 14, so 8 brigades that will deploy into combat 

operations will have a GMR radio running those two waveforms. 

And we will test that out at the Network Integration Exercise at 

White Sands as well. 
14 

So what we will do is put it in the hands of soldiers. And when 

you put something in the hands of soldiers and you let them run 

around with the equipment and use it, you get remarkable feedback from our soldiers as to how well that hardware will perform. 

We are excited about the strategy for GMR, sir. 

Dr. FLEMING. Is that to say that the current Ground Radio System we have is only one waveform? 

General PHILLIPS. No, sir. It was designed to run numerous 

waveforms. The original program was a four-channel radio. We will 

go in with a requirement for at least a two-channel radio, and industry will come back with their solutions. And we think we will 

get a much lower cost and capable radio that will deliver those two 

waveforms. And also we are working with legacy waveforms as 

well. They will be available at some point to run on a GMR radio 

as well. 

Sir, I hope that answers your question. 

Dr. FLEMING. Yes, it does. Thank you, and I yield back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. Mr. Critz. 

Mr. CRITZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you for being here today to testify before us. Going back 

to a couple of questions that Mr. Runyan had asked, one regarding 

the Abrams that is going to be in service I expect through 2045, 

talking about the commercial advances in engine compressors result in significant fuel savings. Now, I know that you weren’t successful in getting the reprogramming to initiate this program. But 

I am curious. You know, this is one of the—fuel savings efficiency, 

extending the life maintenance, is an issue that is important to me, 

along with—when you talk about fuel savings, the APU [auxiliary 

power unit]. I ask about this, I think, every time that we meet. 

So I am curious about how the Army is going to fund this effort 

to accelerate this critical cost-effective upgrade, and I am looking 

back at the 2008 NDAA [National Defense Authorization Act]: Establish an Army product improvement program to implement reliability improvements. And I was wondering if the Army is going 

to use this authority to address these issues. 

General LENNOX. Sir, we didn’t think that it fit in this case. The 

requirements are that you have to have payback within a year. We 

think in order to do this, this is going to take a considerable effort. 

It may take 4 or 5 years of research and development in order to 

get this capability. So what we have done is deferred it, frankly. 

Mr. CRITZ. Okay. Another issue that came up as you were talking about the MECV and the JLTV concurrent development. Now, 

I think it was just this week that General Odierno believes that the 

renewed JLTV efforts are actually going to produce a vehicle that 

is more capable, better, and almost as inexpensive as recapping a 

Humvee. Now, would you agree that the JLTV procurement over 

the Humvee recap is still the best value for the government? Why, 

or why not? 

General LENNOX. Sir, I think we have a good strategy. 

Mr. CRITZ. You are talking 2 to 3 years, right? 

General LENNOX. Yes, sir. To look at it in that time period to 

make sure we have got it right, test those things, test to see if they 

can protect soldiers, what kind of weight can they carry, and see 

what industry can do. 
15 

General PHILLIPS. Congressman, if I can add one comment. We 

have learned a lot through the acquisition processes and lessons 

learned from some of the challenges that we have had in the past. 

So what you see with JLTV today and what we have also described 

with GCV and with Paladin and with the M4 carbine, we have 

brought the requirements and the resourcing and the acquisition 

communities together to really drive after what requirements are 

driving costs, what is necessary, what is absolutely essential, and 

if it is not essential and it is a high driver of cost, then we need 

to eliminate that requirement. 

That is exactly what we did with the Marines. When we pulled 

the Marines inside the process that we used for GCV, it was really 

overwhelming and powerful in terms of how we got to the requirements for JLTV today. So I would just add that we are very excited 

about what we can do with JLTV. 

Mr. CRITZ. Okay. Quick question about the AMPV [Armored 

Multi-Purpose Vehicle] program. Now it was 2007 when the M113 

was terminated. I know the fiscal year 2012 budget includes $31.4 

million to start an M113 replacement program with LRIP [low rate 

initial production] not happening until fiscal year 2016. 

Now, looking back at how the Stryker vehicle was handled was 

that 1999 chief of staff announced his intent to acquire 2000, an 

award is made, 2002 it is in production, or in service, actually. 

So is the Stryker model going to be used for the AMPV program 

as to how we move this very quickly? Because certainly in these 

trying budgetary times it would be most prudent, I believe. 

General LENNOX. We are trying to figure out who can take this 

one. I want to move it much faster, so I agree with you, Congressman. I think this is a critical capability. We have soldiers in combat today that are operating on vehicles. Then we are going to ask 

them to come home and they are going to go to their motor pools 

and they are going to see 113s and they are going to change the 

oil on them, and they know they are not going to take these things 

to combat. So we have got to figure out a way to move faster on 

it. 

The funding in 2012 is critical to that, frankly. We don’t currently have it designed on the pace and speed of Stryker. There is 

a question of affordability, whether or not we can do that, but 

frankly we have got to figure out a way of how to do that faster. 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, we would certainly look at applying the 

Stryker model and maybe doing it faster than Stryker did. Stryker, 

I worked it from 4 years inside the building. And in less than 4 

years, 3/2 [Stryker Brigade Combat Team] out of Fort Lewis deployed into combat, in less than 4 years from the moment General 

Shinseki stepped on stage and said we are going to do this. Really 

remarkable. And Army acquisition did that. Light Utility Helicopter followed the model of Stryker. So we can learn a lot from 

our successes in the past as well. We would certainly look to use 

that opportunity. 

Mr. CRITZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, I do have one more question on CROWS [Common Remotely Operated Weapon Station], but I will wait for a second round so others can get their questions in. I yield back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Mrs. Hartzler. 
16 

Mrs. HARTZLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to cover some questions with force structure and the soldier weight unit and the Stryker if we have time. 

But with regard to force structure, and in terms of equipping the 

force, what I would like to understand is the relationship between 

the current requirement of 45 Active-Duty brigade combat teams 

[BCT] and the cut to end strength of 27,000 soldiers between 2015 

and 2016. So how do you plan and program and budget for equipment, with a pending end strength cut of 27,000 soldiers when it 

is conditions-based, and are there plans to reduce the current requirement of 45 Active-Duty BCTs and/or exchange for a current 

mix of heavy infantry or Stryker brigades? 

General LENNOX. A short answer ma’am, yes, to all those things. 

A challenge for us when you program for your equipment for the 

future, and we are reducing in the last budget submission 27,000 

soldiers, we thought we had a pretty good eye on what the end 

strength would be and the mix would be. And obviously now with 

the change in the budget circumstances, we are going through a 

process that says here is the national military strategy, here needs 

to be the Army’s strategy, here is the force structure that supports 

that strategy, and here is how we equip it. What is the mix of 

heavy, medium and light? That work is going on right now, and it 

is a moving target today. So I don’t have a definitive answer for 

you, ma’am. It has made our job a little bit tougher. 

Mrs. HARTZLER. I know it is a challenge and I empathize with 

you and I wish it weren’t so. I appreciate what you are doing there. 

As far as the soldier weight unit or weight-load capacity and 

some of those issues, I know we had a hearing earlier in one of my 

subcommittees on that, and I know there has been efforts to try to 

reduce the weight reduction that our soldiers carry. And from what 

some articles have said, there are 20,000 soldiers right now, nondeployable status due to muscle or bone injuries that can be attributed to carrying heavy rucksacks over rough terrain and often high 

altitudes over 15 months’ deployment. 

So what improvements have been made in this issue to reduce 

the loads since 2009? Where are we at on those initiatives? 

General PHILLIPS. Congresswoman, that is a great question. General Lennox and I were just at a forward operating base not far 

from the Pakistan border around Jalalabad, and we saw soldiers 

that were on patrol that were walking around carrying significant 

weight. We will never do enough to lighten the weight of a soldier, 

but we put an incredible amount of R&D and emphasis in it, everything from body armor to small arms to ounces, taking off thermal 

weapons sights, and I will give you just a couple of examples and 

ask General Lennox to join me. 

Like the heavy machine gun, the M42 going to a lighter machine 

gun, it saves about 36 pounds, and the tripod using titanium and 

other alloy is obviously a little more expensive but that saves about 

16 pounds. If you add that up, it accounts to about 50 to 55 pounds 

of weight saved off two soldiers carrying that in combat operations. 

Thermal weapon sights that save a pound or ounces. The enhanced 

combat helmet will save a few ounces, 3 or 4 ounces itself. If we 

can give them a better round that is more effective and they don’t 
17 

have to carry as many rounds in combat operations, then that 

saves weight as well. 

Body armor. In Afghanistan they use the Soldier Plate Carrier 

System. That saves on the average about 10 pounds from soldiers 

when they have the authority to use the Plate Carrier System. 

Mountain boots. We were just there and we saw soldiers with 

boots, so we have a better mountain boot headed to Afghanistan 

today that is going to save about a pound each. And it is going to 

actually wick moisture away and operate better in a high, hot, 

mountainous environment. And there are lightweight mortars and 

other systems that we are working on as well, ma’am. We have to 

do more, though. 

General LENNOX. It is funny, ma’am. We have done all of these 

things and when you go out and visit the soldiers like we did, you 

find they are still carrying 100 to 130 pounds of gear. So you take 

a little bit off and they will add something on. Extra water, extra 

ammunition. So it is going to be a constant challenge for us. We 

have requested about $80 million in 2012 to look at further technologies and efforts to get after those kind of things and continue 

the effort. 

Mrs. HARTZLER. We have a business in my district that is doing 

some research on body armor, and the weight significantly is less 

than what is currently out there. So I know there is a lot of effort 

being made to try to do that. But it is still shocking that you are 

carrying around 8-, 10-, 12-hour days, whatever, that much weight. 

General PHILLIPS. Ma’am, we would be glad to hear from your industry partners and their ideas. 

Mrs. HARTZLER. Sure. I guess we are done. Thank you very 

much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. Ms. Tsongas. 

Ms. TSONGAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for 

your testimony. I know you are wrestling with some really tough 

choices and I appreciate your great commitment to our country. 

I had wanted to ask a question around the area of unmanned 

systems. So given the successes we have seen I think in protecting 

our men and women in uniform from IEDs and other threats, I am 

concerned that the Army isn’t fully invested in the deployment of 

unmanned, future unmanned ground vehicle systems to further 

support our troops. So I am just wondering, is that the case? Is 

there a strategy in place? What do you see coming? 

General LENNOX. Yes, ma’am. We had a program that was producing a very large unmanned vehicle with autonomous navigation 

system. It was very complex and expensive, and we did stop that 

program. 

We have sent to Afghanistan a variety of other programs that 

have smaller vehicles, to try to get at understanding how the soldiers would actually use those vehicles in combat. Are they good 

replacements for trucks and to take some of the load off off of the 

soldiers’ backs or not. So we have some experiments going in theater. We are hoping to learn from that and inform us for the future 

in that regard. 

Ms. TSONGAS. So it is not necessarily a coherent strategy? It is 

just sort of trying something, trying something else, evolving with 

it? 
18 

General LENNOX. I think we found what we were doing was producing something that was not cost-effective, was very expensive, 

and didn’t produce the results we wanted. So really what we are 

doing is seeing what soldiers want and what will work as a way 

of informing us for the future. 

Ms. TSONGAS. I imagine there is some smaller—ways to deal 

with this on a much smaller scale as well. I certainly have companies in my district, in the robotics area, that are constantly sort of 

coming at this in very different ways. 

General PHILLIPS. Ma’am, could I take that on for a second? I 

would encourage the companies that you have within your district 

or anywhere in the U.S. that are interested in this. We are doing 

some remarkable work at the Network Integration Evaluation out 

at White Sands and Fort Bliss, and we are asking industry and 

partnering with industry to come and show us what their great 

ideas are, based upon gaps that we have in the Army. And General 

Lennox just described one of our gaps. 

If there are companies that are interested in that, we periodically 

will do this every 6 months, and will issue a RFI, request for information, that will go out and is published on the Federal Web 

pages. If companies have an interest in solving one of those gaps, 

we certainly want them to come forward. And those companies that 

you just described might be critical to us identifying the right capability to meet a gap. 

And what is important about White Sands is we can test it in 

an operationally relevant environment before we take it down 

range and then try to solve the problem with soldiers that are in 

combat and performing combat operations. We can do that at 

White Sands. So we want their feedback. 

Ms. TSONGAS. You raised an interesting issue. This past week we 

had a district work period, and I have a lot—Massachusetts is 

home to many, also clean energy companies, we have a robotics 

cluster, we have a lot of clean energy companies. And many of 

them were looking for ways to work with the Defense Department. 

And we actually put together a session in the morning in which 

representatives came to talk to these companies. They are not in 

the SBIR community, they are not as familiar with the processes. 

They are highly, highly innovative, and see a real opportunity to 

work with the Defense Department to solve some problems. So I 

can see where there are many ways in which this is also in the robotics community as well. 

But it raises another issue, and that is I am going to channel 

Congresswoman Giffords for a minute, and we do wish she were 

here. But as you talk about modernization, how do you think about 

energy consumption and how do you factor that into your efforts 

going forward? 

General LENNOX. An important aspect, ma’am, an important aspect in how we determine our requirements. We do look at energy 

and energy consumption. And it is a factor as we look at new purchases. So, for example, on the Ground Combat Vehicle, one of our 

requirements is it needs to be more fuel-efficient-per-pound a vehicle than its predecessor is. That doesn’t mean, unfortunately, it will 

be more fuel efficient overall, but we will get a better aspect. And 

we are open to different kinds of technologies, I don’t know if I can 
19 

talk about those technologies, but different kinds of technologies 

that may come with a program as a solution to that problem. 

General PHILLIPS. And, ma’am, we are ratcheting up our emphasis on energy and energy efficiency. The JLTV has a requirement 

similar to what General Lennox just described as well. And we 

learned a lot from the technical development phase which will all 

translate into the JLTV strategy that we are pushing forward. 

TRADOC, our TRADOC, Training and Doctorate Command, continues to work on capability documents to address energy efficiencies as well. And I think this will be an occurrence at the NIE 

[Network Integration Evaluation], but we will ask for companies to 

come forward and share with us their great ideas on energy efficiency, it might be generators, it might be something else, but to 

help us become more energy efficient. We are taking that on and 

we are very serious about it as well. 

Ms. TSONGAS. I am glad to hear it. I can only see good things 

coming with that. As you wrestle with the high cost of energy, you 

have to look at ways to both conserve energy or use alternative 

fuels, and the more you are able to work with the private sector, 

and these very innovative thinkers out there, I can only see good 

things coming. So I encourage you to continue down that path. 

Thank you. 

I yield back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. 

Mr. LoBiondo. 

Mr. LOBIONDO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Generals, 

for being here today. 

Can you talk a little bit or share what is the strategy or plan to 

provide the Army with a modern Armed Aerial Scout aircraft to replace the old OH–58? 

General PHILLIPS. Congressman, thanks. We are currently looking for a fly-off over the next year, various commercial-off-the-shelf, 

very limited adaptation platforms, that could help us meet this requirement. It will be a challenge for us with costing within our top 

line of the future. That will be a big factor. 

The capabilities of that aircraft, as you know, I think you know 

better than anybody, our aircraft are being flown significantly. The 

CH–47 Foxtrots are being flown significantly. The Kiowa Warriors 

are being flown significantly in theater. We have to find a replacement for the Kiowa Warriors over time, it is an old platform. And 

this fly-off is a little bit like the Stryker approach that we talked 

about earlier, to try to see what candidates are out there. 

Mr. LOBIONDO. Thank you. Also, what is the Army strategy 

going forward for the Enhanced Medium Altitude Reconnaissance 

and Surveillance System [EMARSS]? 

General LENNOX. Under review right now, sir. I have said in the 

press and probably spoke out of hand in the last couple weeks, but 

we are looking seriously at a lot of these capabilities. Can they be 

done in the Army? Should they be done in the Air Force? How 

many of these platforms should be purchased over time, and is the 

capability that is in theater doing that mission today something 

that can be replicated very quickly if you need it in the future? 

So this aircraft, fixed-wing aircraft for example today, has some 

SIGINT [signals intelligence] capabilities in the back of it. Can that 
20 

be replicated if you don’t have a big investment today? Can you 

rapidly replicate it in the future? These are all of the things we are 

considering now in the ultimate decision about the EMARSS aircraft. 

Mr. LOBIONDO. Thank you, General. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Wilson. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Martin, Generals, thank you all for being here today. As 

Mrs. Hartzler was asking you questions and the new boots weighing a pound less, I was thinking back to around 8 years ago when 

I retired after 31 years, and it is exciting to me and I want to 

thank you that we have multiple generations of improvements to 

uniforms and equipment from just the time that I served. And indeed I point out to people, and I mean this as a compliment to you, 

that my uniform would be more appropriate in a museum. So it is 

just exciting, what you do. 

I want to put a bug in your ear, too, that in the district I represent, which includes the Savannah River Site, there is a great 

deal of research for modular nuclear reactors. And these to me are 

safe, secure, clean, but have extraordinary military application on 

facilities such as Fort Jackson or actually more remote. When I 

was at Kandahar, to see the size of Bagram-Balad; the size of facilities and the security that could be provided in a wonderful place 

that I greatly appreciate, the island Territory of Guam. So I hope 

that you all are looking into the advancing technology of modular 

nuclear reactors. 

General Lennox, currently the Army is considering two program 

solicitations, one for a new individual carbine to replace the M4 

and M16 and another for product improvements to the current 

platforms. In your judgment, does the Army have the funds to do 

both? 

General LENNOX. Congressman Wilson, I think that is a good 

question. What we are trying to do now is see what improvements 

we can make to the current M4, the M4A1, and it is performing, 

the M4 itself is performing magnificently in combat today. The 

M4A1 we are continuing to improve. In the meantime, we think 

doing this carbine competition will inform us about what the best 

path is in the future. 

Now, affordability is going to be a big issue, frankly. We have got 

about 500,000 M4s, and to start over from scratch will be a challenge for us and it will be influenced by what the budgetary environment looks like when we come to make this decision. I think in 

about 3 years is the time frame for this. So we are going to continue along this path. We are going to see what industry is capable 

of producing. We think there is a lot of exciting things being done 

out there, but affordability is going to be an important fact. 

Mr. WILSON. Another factor. Is there any assurance that you can 

provide, the Army did not conceive the new carbine requirements 

without first examining already existing new weapons platforms 

such as the Special Operations Command carbine competition? 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, I can confirm that. We looked through 

market research, what currently exists inside the Army, Special 
21 

Operations Command, and in industry we looked holistically before 

we proceeded with the program, sir. 

Mr. WILSON. I have three sons serving in the Army, so I actually 

have a personal interest. Thank you again for what both of you all 

are doing. 

Ms. Martin, as the Army approaches the launch of the technology 

development phase of the Ground Combat Vehicle, what do you see 

as the major areas of risk for this program to meet the performance 

expectations within a 7-year schedule? 

Ms. MARTIN. Thank you, Representative Wilson. As I mentioned 

in the testimony, we have identified a number of questions. One, 

urgency of the need, cost and affordability, the robustness of the 

analysis of alternatives, and, again, the plausibility of delivering on 

that schedule. And in the technology, the development phase, as 

the generals have mentioned, there will be an opportunity to not 

only look at the vehicles that are being developed, but also look at 

non-developmental items as well as refining the requirements. 

So to the extent that these activities take place during the technology development phase, that should position the Army to be in 

a better place in 18 months to 2 years to be able to make a decision 

as to whether a new vehicle is the right answer, or maybe modifications to a current vehicle. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you for that very thorough response. Thank 

you. 

To both generals, as the Army prioritized components within the 

product improvement program, can you distinguish between 

sustainment and improvement? 

General LENNOX. I think both those are important aspects of incremental modernization, Congressman. I think increasingly we 

are looking at sustainment costs—I don’t know that we have always done that—and weighing that versus affordability in making 

the initial improvements. 

So some of the earlier comments we made about the big savings 

you could make if you did something to the Abrams engine are absolutely true. The question is can you afford to do them or not. So 

we are weighing sustainment costs as an aspect of this as we make 

decisions. 

Mr. WILSON. Again, thank you all for your service. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. 

Mr. Platts. 

Mr. PLATTS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be very brief. Actually, Congressman Wilson touched on the M4 issue which is what 

I was going to focus on. I appreciate that update. We will be anxious to see what the results going forward are. My son and I shoot 

our M4s pretty regularly, and the fact it allows me to hit 200 yards 

out with open sights speaks to what a great weapon it is, because 

I don’t have that great a shooting eyesight. But it certainly has a 

proven record, and I think the balance that you are taking of 

whether you can up-improve it, but also within budget constraints, 

is an important one in finding that right match going forward. 

The final comment is a word of thanks. I know the assignment 

you both have been given, and your colleagues, of continuing to 

meet the needs of our Army in these budget times with the cuts 
22 

that are coming is a challenging one, and we are grateful for your 

leadership and your efforts in meeting that challenge. I appreciate 

your service. 

With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. 

As anticipated, most of the questions I thought needed to be 

asked have been asked. I have just a couple of questions. I have 

a brief question for the record. 

On August 1, in response to a letter to the Secretary of the 

Army, we got the response, ‘‘The draft addendum does not include 

a KPP [Key Performance Parameter] against rocket-propelled grenades.’’ However, General Odierno stated in testimony on 21 July 

of this year, and I quote, ‘‘The competitive Humvee Recap Program 

will incorporate scalable protection and plan for additional protection against rocket-propelled grenades.’’ 

It would seem to me to only make sense that the Army would 

provide similar or greater protection against RPGs [rocket propelled grenade] for the MECV Humvee Recap Program as is provided today for the MATV. 

And my question is, and give me a one word answer today, and 

if you want to amplify, do that for the record: Can you confirm that 

the Army plans to include RPG protection as a requirement as part 

of the MECV Humvee Recap Program? A one word answer, and 

then amplify for the record if you wish. 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, I will answer. The answer is yes. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. And you can amplify for the record. 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, we will amplify for the record. We learned 

so much from operations down range. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 71.] 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you so much. 

I have a couple of questions for our witness from GAO. You mentioned the requirements for one of our developments was not 

achievable, and I have a question about requirements. We need to 

ask two questions about requirements that I am not sure we ask 

and adequately answer in our developments. 

The first question is just that question: Is the requirement 

achievable? And the second question is maybe an even more important question: After you decide that yes, it is achievable, then we 

need to know, do we really need to do all that? Maybe getting 95 

percent of the way there for half the cost will be quite adequate. 

At some point my farmer friend would say, I am not sure the juice 

is worth the squeezing. Do you think that we have an adequate 

procedure for addressing these two questions in our development 

programs? 

Ms. MARTIN. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, I think within the acquisition process there is ample opportunity to develop and refine 

requirements, and I think all three of us have talked about that 

process a bit today. 

We sometimes start out with requirements that may be nice to 

have, but as we go through the technology development and other 

phases of the acquisition process, there are ample opportunities to 

refine those requirements because we match them with costs, with 

schedules, and determine affordability. 
23 

Certainly we saw with the JLTV program that some of the original projected requirements, when they went into tech development, 

were not achievable. To get the protection that they needed, you 

would not be able to be able to still transport the vehicle because 

it would weigh too much. So there were some trades there. So, 

again, the acquisition process does allow for trades in requirements. 

General Lennox talked about the portfolio reviews. That is another opportunity to really look at capabilities, look at programs 

across a spectrum, and kind of determine there what do we really 

need with respect to capabilities, what can we live without? And 

in doing that, you have the opportunity to drive down costs. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Our procurement history I think indicates that 

we may not be aggressive enough in asking these questions and answering them, because it is only in very rare development cases 

that we do not have a program that runs too long and costs too 

much as compared to our original expectations. 

So I would hope that we might have a more vigorous dialogue 

on these two things: First of all, is it attainable; and, secondly, do 

you really need that much at that cost? Answering these questions 

in today’s environment is going to be even more important. 

As the Army proceeds to implement its Network Investment 

Strategy, what advice would GAO offer the Army on how to proceed? What are the major areas of risk for the Army to focus its 

management and attention on? 

Ms. MARTIN. As I mentioned in my short statement, we think the 

evaluations that are taking place at Fort Bliss are a good step forward. They allow the Army to identify some baseline capabilities. 

There is an opportunity for incrementally building on the capabilities that are there. Obviously, getting input from the soldier is very 

important because they are the ones that are ultimately using this 

equipment. 

A couple of independent test evaluators have talked about the 

importance of being able to gather kind of objective and measurable data, and I think that is something that hopefully the Army 

will do as they continue these evaluations. And we also mention 

the importance of having overall requirements for the network so 

that you fully understand how the various pieces fit together. 

But, by and large, we certainly think that these evaluations are 

a positive step forward and can glean a lot of really useful information as the Army moves forward. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you. I have another comment or question 

or two, but we will do that at the end of a second round of questions. 

My ranking member, Mr. Reyes. 

Mr. REYES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have one other 

question. It is regarding the Joint Air-to-Ground Missile. Does the 

Army still have a requirement for this weapon? 

General LENNOX. Yes, sir, we do. 

Mr. REYES. While the program has been delayed, are you aware 

of any technical problems or major requirement changes that might 

lead to a potential decision to terminate it? 

General LENNOX. Congressman Reyes, what we are struggling 

with now is we have a number of the highest priority programs 
24 

that we want to fund, and then there is another tier that we have 

to ask ourselves can you afford these in the future. JAGM as a program has been very effective and is working without problems, but 

it will ultimately be a question of affordability. No decisions have 

been made yet, but that will be one of the programs we are going 

to have to ask ourselves, do you continue with Hellfire, which is 

doing well in combat today, or do you go to the next generation? 

Kind of getting at some of the conversations we have had earlier 

is incremental improvement—or should we go to the next generation, and can you afford to do that? And that will be something we 

will be wrestling with. 

Mr. REYES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is all I have. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. Critz. 

Mr. CRITZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

In talking about the Commonly Remote Operative Weapons Station, the CROWS system, I have three questions that revolve 

around the CROWS, and mainly because I am a little baffled. 

In the first performance specs on both the Humvee Recap and 

the JLTV, they included a requirement for the CROWS. Subsequent updates to both performance specs removed the CROWS requirement. The alternative to having a CROWS system leaves a 

gunner exposed to snipers and IEDs. We know that. With the 

Army’s commitment to the CROWS system as part of the Stryker 

and MRAP programs, why would this capability be removed from 

the Humvee Recap and the JLTV? 

So I guess there are three questions: Is this system working? 

Two, why was it removed from the spec? And if we are dedicated 

to it in the Stryker and the MRAP, why aren’t we keeping it on 

the Humvee Recap and the JLTV? 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, CROWS is working well and in use, as 

you just described, in MRAPs and other vehicles in combat operations today. 

Number two, the reason it was removed is because it will remain 

a part of the actual system, and whoever results from the winner 

of the MECV program, the Humvee Recap, will actually be charged 

to integrate the CROWS system inside the vehicle itself. So 

CROWS is actually a part of our program going forward, even 

though it might not be an integral part of the phase one, which is 

the RDT&E [research, development, test, and evaluation] that we 

want the companies interested in the MECV program to be interested or to come forward with. So it will be a part of the final solution for both JLTV and for the MECV. 

Mr. CRITZ. Okay. All right. Thanks. And one quick question. 

On the MECV program, General Phillips, you had said that—you 

sort of snickered when I asked about could we mirror the Stryker, 

but then you said maybe you could do it quicker. Is there anything—are you hinting or intimating there is something we could 

do on this committee to be helpful in that aspect? 

General PHILLIPS. Sir, if there is something that we need your 

help with, we will certainly come forward and ask for your help 

and support. 

If I can talk about the acquisition process just for one second, 

sometimes we hide behind the laws and the rules and the statutory 

and policy requirements. I think if we try to work within them bet-
25 

ter and to better understand them, we might be able to accomplish 

the mission. And that is exactly what we did with Stryker, what 

we did with the Light Utility Helicopter, and it is what we are trying to do today with rapid acquisition and a more agile acquisition 

process, using White Sands and the NIE effort that we have ongoing. 

So first we will work within the process itself and try to achieve 

efficiencies. Sir, if we need your help, we will come and ask you. 

Mr. CRITZ. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. 

At least to some extent, what you all are now doing and what 

we are doing here today in this hearing and the series of hearings 

that we are having in this committee, are exercises in futility, because there are two questions to which we do not have an answer 

and we really need an answer to these two questions before we can 

rationally and intelligently proceed. 

One of those is what will be our future strategy. There is a considerable concern that we will not be able to use our military in 

the future the way we have used it in the past, and we have not 

really come to terms with that. We do not have a strategy. Until 

you have a strategy, you do not know what kind of military you 

will need. 

Having decided that question, then the next question to which 

we do not have an answer is, how much money will we have? So 

I apologize for the uncertainties that we labor under. We do not 

know what our national strategy for the use of our military will be 

for coming years and we do not know how much money we will 

have to implement that strategy. So thank you for persevering and 

serving your country in these difficult times. 

Thank you very much for your testimony. Do the members of the 

subcommittee have any additional questions or comments? 

Okay. Thank you very much for being with us today. 

[Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

A P P E N D I X 

OCTOBER 26, 2011 

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD 

OCTOBER 26, 2011 

(31) 
32 
33 
34 
35 
36 
37 
38 
39 
40 
41 
42 
43 
44 
45 
46 
47 
48 
49 
50 
51 
52 
53 
54 
55 
56 
57 
58 
59 
60 
61 
62 
63 
64 
65 
66 
67 

WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING 

THE HEARING 

OCTOBER 26, 2011 

(71) 

RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. BARTLETT 

General LENNOX and General PHILLIPS. Yes, the Army plans to incorporate the 

requirement of Rocket Propelled Grenade (RPG) protection as part of the Modernized Expanded Capacity Vehicle (MECV) Program. The MECV Program fully incorporates the concept of scalable armor with a base cab protection of small arms protection or greater, and B-kit armor to achieve protection similar to what is provided 

across the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected All Terrain vehicle fleet today. 

The MECV Performance Specification is broken into two sections; an unclassified 

performance specification and a classified annex to that performance specification. 

Both address the scalable armor MECV specifications. Below is an unclassified excerpt of the RPG requirement from the classified annex: 

[The information referred to is For Official Use Only and is retained in the committee files.] 

[See page 22.] 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING 

OCTOBER 26, 2011 

(75) 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. BARTLETT 

Mr. BARTLETT. How does the MRAP–All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) and MRAPs fit 

into the wheeled vehicle fleet along with HMMWVs and JLTVs? Why not just use 

the M–ATV and MRAPs which have proven to be combat effective? 

General LENNOX. The Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) and MRAP–All 

Terrain Vehicles (M–ATV) fit into the tactical wheeled vehicle fleet by complementing the light, medium and heavy systems. Approximately 15,000 MRAPs and 

5,000 MATVs were produced and fielded to provide protected mobility for Soldiers 

supporting Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation 

New Dawn. Of those projected to return from theater to the Army, the Army currently intends to place approximately 37% of the M–ATV and MRAP vehicles into 

unit Tables of Organization and Equipment (TOE) and within the training base, 

59% into Army Prepositioned Stocks (APS), and 4% into war reserve and contingency retention stocks to be available for future conflicts. 

The MRAPs being placed on unit TOEs are primarily for missions outside of the 

scope of HMMWV and JLTV. For example, MRAPs will be used as Route Clearance 

Vehicles (RCVs) and Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) missions where their 

heavy armor and limited off-road ability fit well with the RCV and EOD mission 

requirements. 

For those MRAPs/M–ATVs being placed in APS, they will perform missions close 

to those being executed successfully in operations today. These do have an overlap 

with the HMMWV and JLTV mission set. However, MRAP/M–ATV are: 1) insufficient in quantity to cover all Army protected mobility needs (i.e., current projected 

MRAP/M–ATV requirements are 46,000); 2) have limited off-road mobility for the 

broad range of missions sets executed by light tactical vehicles; and 3) are not cost 

effective to field further (the current cost projection for JLTV is 33% of the procurement and sustainment costs of MRAP/M–ATV costs). MRAP/M–ATV are not a practical replacement for our entire light tactical vehicle fleet requirement. JLTV capability is still required to meet all requisite missions. 

Mr. BARTLETT. The 7-year GCV program has significant risk and is very costly. 

What will the Army do if significant funding reductions are made? 

General LENNOX. The Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV) is the objective vehicle of the 

Army’s Combat Vehicle Modernization Strategy. The GCV allows an infantry squad 

to accompany tanks in both open and complex terrain from initial contact to the objective. The GCV will fill capability gaps that currently exist in the formation for 

force protection, survivability, network interoperability, mobility, and lethality. The 

system has an iterative design that will allow for the growth of additional capabilities. The Army is committed to fully resourcing the GCV and has already made 

trades within the combat vehicle portfolio to ensure full funding of the GCV program. 

Current funding develops critical technologies and allows for an analysis of alternatives that will further inform GCV requirements. The program is scheduled for 

Milestone B in 1QFY14. 

In the event of further resource constraints, the Army intends to continue full 

funding of the GCV as it is one of the Army’s most important programs 

Mr. BARTLETT. What is the Modernized Expanded Capacity Vehicle (MECV) program and how does it align with the Army’s light tactical vehicle strategy? 

General LENNOX. The MECV program supports the Army’s Light Tactical Vehicle 

(LTV) Strategy by filling the capability gap for External Air Transport requirement 

for Air Assault missions that will not be filled by the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle 

(JLTV). The Strategy states that the LTV fleet will be comprised of unarmored vehicles, UAHs and JLTVs. The MECV is part of the UAH fleet and will have a greater 

protection level as well as have the capability to be air-moved by the CH–47 helicopter. 

It is also part of our modernization effort of the existing Up-Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (UAH) fleet. The MECV program is focused on 

providing about ∼6,000 vehicles or 1/10th of the oldest UAH fleet with improved protection similar to that of the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected All-Terrain Vehicle; 

while improving or maintaining adequate off road mobility to support maneuver 
76 

forces and provide payload capacity to support mission requirements. On 20 July 

2011, a Materiel Developmental Decision was approved and authorization was 

granted for the MECV Competitive HMMWV Recapitalization Program to enter into 

pre-Milestone C. The Milestone C decision is scheduled for 4th Quarter of FY13. 

Mr. BARTLETT. In regards to the Stryker Double V Hull, how many does the Army 

plan to procure and does the Army plan to go back and retrofit any current Stryker 

Brigades with the Double V Hull as they go through the reset process? 

General LENNOX. The Army has a current procurement target of 2 Stryker Brigade Combat Teams (SBCT) with Double V Hulls (DVH), totaling 742 DVH Stryker 

vehicles, based on minimum operational and training needs. It would cost $14B and 

approximately 14 years to outfit our entire current Stryker fleet with DVH, assuming 4 years of Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation and conversion of one 

SBCT per year. While this is a possible course of action, the Army is currently evaluating options for the composition and structure of its combat vehicle fleet. The 

Army currently has no plans to retrofit any current Stryker Brigades with the DVH 

as they go through the reset process. Once the Army decides on the appropriate fleet 

mix and number of combat vehicles, the number of DVH Strykers, and variants of 

Strykers, will be finalized. 

Mr. BARTLETT. With the Army termination of the Autonomous Navigation System 

(ANS) prior to the Army obtaining the Technical Data Package (TDP), will the upcoming JIEDDO Requirements cost the Army more than completing the ANS to 

TDP? Is there merit in reviewing the ANS capability on various platforms besides 

the MM–UGV? 

General PHILLIPS. Based on our analysis, it will cost the Army more to complete 

the ANS TDP than the Joint Improvised Explosive Device Defeat Organization 

(JIEDDO) plans to spend on a competitive evaluation of autonomous Counter Improvised Explosive Device solutions. The estimated cost to complete the ANS TDP 

($20M to $27.5M) would be additive to the cost of either a competitive or sole source 

effort. The Army decision to cancel the Multi-Mission Unmanned Ground Vehicle, 

consisting of the ANS and Common Mobility Platform, was based on two critical 

pieces of information: (1) Performance of the competitive autonomy systems, and (2) 

lack of a documented requirement for the Unmanned Ground Vehicle, to include the 

ANS. 

There is little, if any, merit in reviewing the ANS capability on other platforms 

because as determined during the Vice Chief of Staff, Army directed assessment; 

there are many on-going efforts capable of providing similar autonomous navigation 

capabilities. The JIEDDO recognizes this and is using an open competitive call to 

meet their needs at a potentially lower cost than the cost of ANS described above. 

Mr. BARTLETT. How does the MRAP–All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) and MRAPs fit 

into the wheeled vehicle fleet along with HMMWVs and JLTVs? Why not just use 

the M–ATV and MRAPs which have proven to be combat effective? 

General PHILLIPS. The Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) and MRAP–All 

Terrain Vehicles (M–ATV) fit into the tactical wheeled vehicle fleet by complementing the light, medium and heavy systems. Approximately 15,000 MRAPs and 

5,000 MATVs were produced and fielded to provide protected mobility for Soldiers 

supporting Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation 

New Dawn. Of those projected to return from theater to the Army, the Army currently intends to place approximately 37% of the M–ATV and MRAP vehicles into 

unit Tables of Organization and Equipment (TOE) and within the training base, 

59% into Army Prepositioned Stocks (APS), and 4% into war reserve and contingency retention stocks to be available for future conflicts. 

The MRAPs being placed on unit TOEs are primarily for missions outside of the 

scope of HMMWV and JLTV. For example, MRAPs will be used as Route Clearance 

Vehicles (RCVs) and Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) missions where their 

heavy armor and limited off-road ability fit well with the RCV and EOD mission 

requirements. 

For those MRAPs/M–ATVs being placed in APS, they will perform missions close 

to those being executed successfully in operations today. These do have an overlap 

with the HMMWV and JLTV mission set. However, MRAP/M–ATV are: 1) insufficient in quantity to cover all Army protected mobility needs (i.e., current projected 

MRAP/M–ATV requirements are 46,000); 2) have limited off-road mobility for the 

broad range of missions sets executed by light tactical vehicles; and 3) are not cost 

effective to field further (the current cost projection for JLTV is 33% of the procurement and sustainment costs of MRAP/M–ATV costs). MRAP/M–ATV are not a practical replacement for our entire light tactical vehicle fleet requirement. JLTV capability is still required to meet all requisite missions. 

Mr. BARTLETT. The 7-year GCV program has significant risk and is very costly. 

What will the Army do if significant funding reductions are made? 
77 

General PHILLIPS. The Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV) is the objective vehicle of 

the Army’s Combat Vehicle Modernization Strategy. The GCV allows an infantry 

squad to accompany tanks in both open and complex terrain from initial contact to 

the objective. The GCV will fill capability gaps that currently exist in the formation 

for force protection, survivability, network interoperability, mobility, and lethality. 

The system has an iterative design that will allow for the growth of additional capabilities. The Army is committed to fully resourcing the GCV and has already made 

trades within the combat vehicle portfolio to ensure full funding of the GCV program. 

Current funding develops critical technologies and allows for an analysis of alternatives that will further inform GCV requirements. The program is scheduled for 

Milestone B in 1QFY14. 

In the event of further resource constraints, the Army intends to continue full 

funding of the GCV as it is one of the Army’s most important programs. 

Mr. BARTLETT. What is the Modernized Expanded Capacity Vehicle (MECV) program and how does it align with the Army’s light tactical vehicle strategy? 

General PHILLIPS. The MECV program supports the Army’s Light Tactical Vehicle 

(LTV) Strategy by filling the capability gap for External Air Transport requirement 

for Air Assault missions that will not be filled by the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle 

(JLTV). The Strategy states that the LTV fleet will be comprised of unarmored vehicles, UAHs and JLTVs. The MECV is part of the UAH fleet and will have a greater 

protection level as well as have the capability to be air-moved by the CH–47 helicopter. 

It is also part of our modernization effort of the existing Up-Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (UAH) fleet. The MECV program is focused on 

providing about ∼6,000 vehicles or 1/10th of the oldest UAH fleet with improved protection similar to that of the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected All-Terrain Vehicle; 

while improving or maintaining adequate off road mobility to support maneuver 

forces and provide payload capacity to support mission requirements. On 20 July 

2011, a Materiel Developmental Decision was approved and authorization was 

granted for the MECV Competitive HMMWV Recapitalization Program to enter into 

pre-Milestone C. The Milestone C decision is scheduled for 4th Quarter of FY13. 

Mr. BARTLETT. In regards to the Stryker Double V Hull, how many does the Army 

plan to procure and does the Army plan to go back and retrofit any current Stryker 

Brigades with the Double V Hull as they go through the reset process? 

General PHILLIPS. The Army has a current procurement target of 2 Stryker Brigade Combat Teams (SBCT) with Double V Hulls (DVH), totaling 742 DVH Stryker 

vehicles, based on minimum operational and training needs. It would cost $14B and 

approximately 14 years to outfit our entire current Stryker fleet with DVH, assuming 4 years of Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation and conversion of one 

SBCT per year. While this is a possible course of action, the Army is currently evaluating options for the composition and structure of its combat vehicle fleet. The 

Army currently has no plans to retrofit any current Stryker Brigades with the DVH 

as they go through the reset process. Once the Army decides on the appropriate fleet 

mix and number of combat vehicles, the number of DVH Strykers, and variants of 

Strykers, will be finalized. 

Mr. BARTLETT. With the Army termination of the Autonomous Navigation System 

(ANS) prior to the Army obtaining the Technical Data Package (TDP), will the upcoming JIEDDO Requirements cost the Army more than completing the ANS to 

TDP? Is there merit in reviewing the ANS capability on various platforms besides 

the MM–UGV? 

Ms. MARTIN. In response to a recent request from this Subcommittee, we are 

starting a review of the Army’s decision to cancel further development of the Autonomous Navigation System (ANS). At this point, we have not seen the upcoming 

JIEDDO requirements and do not know if the ANS capabilities are applicable. In 

our forthcoming review, we expect to develop an understanding of the ANS and how 

it fits with other initiatives in the unmanned ground vehicle arena. 

Mr. BARTLETT. As the Army proceeds to implement its network investment strategy, what advice would you offer the Army on how to proceed? What are the major 

areas of risk for the Army to focus its management attention? 

Ms. MARTIN. The Army’s network investment strategy has a number of major 

areas of risk that deserve management attention. In our written statement, we 

highlighted risks to the Army’s strategy of proceeding without: 

• Clearly defined requirements for the overall network and articulating clearly 

defined capabilities for network components. These are important so that the 

various capabilities the Army is developing will work together as a network. 

• Realistic cost and schedule projections for meeting incremental network objectives. We think it is a good idea to build on current capabilities in an incre-
78 

mental fashion. However, cost and schedule projections are important so that 

decision makers can determine if progress is being made, reset objectives based 

on that progress, and make informed decisions about further program investments. • A clear strategy to take advantage of the potential test data and information 

available from the Network Integration Evaluations (NIE) both in terms of the 

existing network and potential improvements. In terms of manpower, equipment, and logistics, these NIEs are expensive endeavors and it is important to 

have a strategy in place to fully capitalize on the resources and time invested 

in these evaluations. • A well defined acquisition and contracting strategy for funding and rapidly procuring promising network technologies. Such a strategy will position the Army 

to procure the emerging technologies in a timely manner and at a fair price. • Well-defined plans for developing and maturing software defined radios and 

waveforms. These plans are important so that the Army can make timely decisions about procuring radios in sync with technically mature waveforms. 

As it proceeds to implement its network investment strategy, our advice would be 

for the Army to focus on resolving these risks to fully capitalize on current and 

emerging network capabilities. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Similarly, from what you know so far, how do the Army’s plans 

for the Ground Combat Vehicle differ from its plans to develop the manned ground 

vehicles within FCS? 

Ms. MARTIN. The Army’s plans for GCV are very different from the Future Combat System’s (FCS’s) manned ground vehicle (MGV) plans from both a vehicle capability perspective and a program management perspective. MGVs were to be a family of vehicles while GCV is expected to be a single purpose vehicle. The Army’s intent with the MGVs was to replace vehicle mass with superior information. In other 

words, the vehicles would be much lighter than traditional combat vehicles and rely 

less on armor and more on information superiority for their survivability, which was 

to be provided by an advanced information network. After the FCS termination, the 

Army changed its position, realizing it could not completely eliminate the ‘‘fog of 

war’’ with networking, and it presented a GCV concept that was predicated on a 

more traditional vehicle protection approach that utilizes heavy armor. The Army 

also appears to have tempered its desire for revolutionary capabilities whose development would add cost and schedule risk to the program. With FCS vehicles, the 

Army wanted a number of capabilities—advanced information network, lightweight 

armor, and active protection system—that required significant advancements in 

technology. With GCV, the Army cancelled the original request for proposals over 

concerns that requirements were too demanding. Since then, the Army has revised 

its requirements and is allowing contractors to propose alternative ways to provide 

certain GCV capabilities. 

The Army’s acquisition plans for GCV are very different and much more conventional than its earlier MGV plans. The FCS program entered system development 

after a 1-year concept and technology demonstration period. It was approved for development despite having immature technologies and poorly defined requirements. 

Because of the FCS program’s ambitious goals, the Army did not feel that it had 

the capacity to manage the program. As a result, the Army decided to employ a lead 

systems integrator to assist in defining, developing, and integrating FCS. The role 

of the integrator was not simply that of a traditional prime contractor but also included some elements of a partner to the government in ensuring the design, development, and prototype implementation of the FCS network and family of systems 

(including the MGV’s). The FCS MGV’s were 6 years into development before the 

program had accumulated enough knowledge to consider having a preliminary design review. At about the same time, the Secretary of Defense decided to cancel the 

MGV portion of the FCS program. With GCV, the Army is planning a 2-year technology development phase and is encouraging the contractors to use mature technologies in their subsystem designs. The Army plans to manage the GCV program 

in a more conventional manner. The Army will be using at least two contractors in 

technology development in an attempt to encourage innovation and competition and 

expects to have competing contractors in system development as well. The Army has 

shown flexibility on detailed GCV requirements and plans to have a preliminary design review prior to completion of the technology development phase. 

Mr. BARTLETT. As the Army approaches the launch of the technology development 

phase for the Ground Combat Vehicle, what do you see as the major areas of risk 

for this program to meet its performance expectations within a 7-year schedule? 

Ms. MARTIN. In March 2011, we reported that as it approached a Milestone A review, key questions on GCV pertain to how urgently it is needed, robustness of the 

analysis of alternatives, its cost and affordability, plausibility of its schedule, and 
79 

whether mature technologies will be used. We noted the importance of addressing 

such questions to getting a good start on demonstrating the match between GCV 

requirements and resources by the end of the technology development phase. In our 

October written statement, we noted that while the Under Secretary of Defense for 

Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics agreed that the Army had a priority need for 

a GCV, the number of caveats in the approval memorandum—which permitted the 

start of the technology development phase—raises questions about the soundness of 

the Army’s acquisition plans and timelines. The Army is now conducting a more robust analysis of alternatives that considers non-developmental vehicles and their potential to provide an infantry fighting vehicle capability instead of a new vehicle 

program. The Army and its contractors will be expected to continue making capability and requirements trades in order to achieve a realistic vehicle design that can 

yield a first production vehicle within 7 years. The Army will face a challenge in 

achieving a fixed procurement cost target for GCV given that independent cost estimates are at least 30 percent higher than Army estimates. The expected reduction 

in the defense budget may impact GCV funding even with the Army making adjustments in its combat vehicle portfolio to make funding GCV a priority. While the 

Army has encouraged contractors to use mature technologies, it is not clear whether 

this is happening. The use of mature technologies can contribute to better acquisition program outcomes, while the use of immature technologies can be a leading indicator that programs are less likely to succeed within planned cost and schedule 

resources. Delivering a feasible, cost-effective, and executable GCV solution presents 

a major challenge to the Army. Over the next two years during the technology development phase, the Army faces major challenges in deciding which capabilities to 

pursue and include in a GCV vehicle design and determine whether the best option 

is a new vehicle or modifications to a current vehicle. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MRS. ROBY 

Mrs. ROBY. In working with the bases in my state, I understand the Army has 

a goal to have a joint multi-role aircraft for rotary wing transport on the books by 

2030. The concern is that emphasis has been placed on modernizing our current rotary wing fleet and we may have lost sight on moving to a new platform. Current 

platforms are going limited even with modernization in several areas that we must 

move forward including: need crafts to go faster than 200 knots, reducing logistic 

footprint and reduce fuel consumption. With all of the concerns of what the action 

of Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction will have on DOD appropriations, 

what will the possible reduction in appropriations do in impacting that deadline? 

General LENNOX. Reductions in appropriations for the Department of Defense 

could delay the development of technologies which could be applicable to the Joint 

Multi-Role Aircraft (JMR). Stable funding is key to developing and maturing these 

required technologies. 

The Army fully intends to continue to pursue development of the JMR in an attempt to fill capability gaps that cannot be addressed now because current technologies are either infeasible or too immature. These capability gaps are in the 

areas of survivability, lethality, performance, maintainability, supportability, flexibility, and versatility. Development of the JMR will lead to common aircraft components that will be scalable in size and will provide a common aircraft architecture 

that will support mission-specific equipment packages to meet future vertical lift requirements. 

While the Army pursues the development of the JMR, it must also continue with 

modernization efforts on current platforms to ensure that Army aviation units are 

modular, capable, lethal, tailorable, and sustainable. These modernization efforts 

mitigate capability gaps until the JMR technologies mature. 

Mrs. ROBY. I proudly represent the Second District of Alabama that has Fort 

Rucker—the home of the U.S. Army Aviation Center of Excellence. Last week, we 

had the privilege of Chairman McKeon visiting the base and to see the training that 

our rotary wing aviators go through and the great work that our soldiers are doing 

there. Our rotary wing war fighters have been key to our mission in the Middle 

East. 

However, helicopter incidents are the third-leading cause of fatalities in the Iraq 

War. In Afghanistan, in 2008 helicopter-related losses was the number 1 cause of 

deaths with direct fire being the second cause and IED attacks as third. Weatherrelated issues, disorienting brownout conditions, engine failure, wire strikes and flying into terrain of which the pilot was unaware accounts for 80 percent of Iraq and 
80 

Afghanistan helicopter losses. Environmental conditions affect every facet of rotary 

wing operations. However, many of these losses can be mitigated with various new 

technologies, glass cockpit, and other capabilities to give the pilot the necessary 

tools. 

My question is how is the Army moving to encompassing these new instruments 

and capabilities to provide the war fighter with the necessary tools to mitigate many 

of these causes of helicopter incidents? 

General LENNOX. Every aircraft currently under procurement has a fully modernized cockpit which includes flight symbology for all modes of flight, moving maps 

and enhanced flight controls improving controllability. 

The Army is demonstrating significant improvement in the most damaging class 

of accidents attributed to Degraded Visual Environment (DVE). This improvement 

may be attributed to the ongoing aircraft modernization investment, however, DVE 

remains a significant factor in the majority of non-hostile accidents. Despite noted 

improvements, the Army continues to evaluate potential systems to enhance the pilot’s ability to maintain situational awareness when visual references are lost. In 

addition, we are seeking focused solutions including active radar penetrating sensors to ‘‘see through’’ brownout in the non-modernized fleet which may also supplement our modernized fleet’s capability. As technology improves the Army will continue to develop the right mix of mission planning systems, symbology, flight controls, displays and sensors to turn DVE from a hazard to a tactical advantage on 

the battlefield. 

Mrs. ROBY. In working with the bases in my state, I understand the Army has 

a goal to have a joint multi-role aircraft for rotary wing transport on the books by 

2030. The concern is that emphasis has been placed on modernizing our current rotary wing fleet and we may have lost sight on moving to a new platform. Current 

platforms are going limited even with modernization in several areas that we must 

move forward including: need crafts to go faster than 200 knots, reducing logistic 

footprint and reduce fuel consumption. With all of the concerns of what the action 

of Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction will have on DOD appropriations, 

what will the possible reduction in appropriations do in impacting that deadline? 

General PHILLIPS. Reductions in appropriations for the Department of Defense 

could delay the development of technologies which could be applicable to the Joint 

Multi-Role Aircraft (JMR). Stable funding is key to developing and maturing these 

required technologies. 

The Army fully intends to continue to pursue development of the JMR in an attempt to fill capability gaps that cannot be addressed now because current technologies are either infeasible or too immature. These capability gaps are in the 

areas of survivability, lethality, performance, maintainability, supportability, flexibility, and versatility. Development of the JMR will lead to common aircraft components that will be scalable in size and will provide a common aircraft architecture 

that will support mission-specific equipment packages to meet future vertical lift requirements. 

While the Army pursues the development of the JMR, it must also continue with 

modernization efforts on current platforms to ensure that Army aviation units are 

modular, capable, lethal, tailorable, and sustainable. These modernization efforts 

mitigate capability gaps until the JMR technologies mature. 

Mrs. ROBY. I proudly represent the Second District of Alabama that has Fort 

Rucker-the home of the U.S. Army Aviation Center of Excellence. Last week, we had 

the privilege of Chairman McKeon visiting the base and to see the training that our 

rotary wing aviators go through and the great work that our soldiers are doing 

there. Our rotary wing war fighters have been key to our mission in the Middle 

East. 

However, helicopter incidents are the third-leading cause of fatalities in the Iraq 

War. In Afghanistan, in 2008 helicopter-related losses was the number 1 cause of 

deaths with direct fire being the second cause and IED attacks as third. Weatherrelated issues, disorienting brownout conditions, engine failure, wire strikes and flying into terrain of which the pilot was unaware accounts for 80 percent of Iraq and 

Afghanistan helicopter losses. Environmental conditions affect every facet of rotary 

wing operations. However, many of these losses can be mitigated with various new 

technologies, glass cockpit, and other capabilities to give the pilot the necessary 

tools. 

My question is how is the Army moving to encompassing these new instruments 

and capabilities to provide the war fighter with the necessary tools to mitigate many 

of these causes of helicopter incidents? 

General PHILLIPS. Every aircraft currently under procurement has a fully modernized cockpit which includes flight symbology for all modes of flight, moving maps 

and enhanced flight controls improving controllability. 
81 

The Army is demonstrating significant improvement in the most damaging class 

of accidents attributed to Degraded Visual Environment (DVE). This improvement 

may be attributed to the ongoing aircraft modernization investment, however, DVE 

remains a significant factor in the majority of non-hostile accidents. Despite noted 

improvements, the Army continues to evaluate potential systems to enhance the pilot’s ability to maintain situational awareness when visual references are lost. In 

addition, we are seeking focused solutions including active radar penetrating sensors to ‘‘see through’’ brownout in the non-modernized fleet which may also supplement our modernized fleet’s capability. As technology improves the Army will continue to develop the right mix of mission planning systems, symbology, flight controls, displays and sensors to turn DVE from a hazard to a tactical advantage on 

the battlefield. 

Mrs. ROBY. My understanding is that the Army had been looking to have a new 

joint multi-role rotary wing aircraft by 2030. What are the plans of the Army in continuing to move forward with this development of a new platform? With current cuts 

and possible additional cuts due to the Budget Control Act, what possible impact 

can it have to the 2030 timeframe? 

Ms. MARTIN. Based on our previous work, we know that the Army decided over 

the last few years to focus its attention and resources on upgrading and maintaining 

its current rotary wing aircraft fleet. There are several reasons for this decision. For 

example, that fleet was being used extensively in the ongoing war efforts. The Army 

also concluded that the current fleet would be sufficiently capable at least for the 

near- and mid-term. In addition, the Army concluded that developing a new generation of rotary wing aircraft would be a major effort with significant cost and technical risks. Nevertheless, the Army has recently released to industry a request for 

information on potential capabilities for a Joint Multi-Role helicopter. With the 

prospects for reductions in DOD and Army acquisition accounts, however, it is unclear at this time when a rotary wing aircraft development program will be started. 

Mrs. ROBY. I proudly represent the Second District of Alabama that has Fort 

Rucker-the home of the U.S. Army Aviation Center of Excellence. Last week, we had 

the privilege of Chairman McKeon visiting the base and to see the training that our 

rotary wing aviators go through and the great work that our soldiers are doing 

there. Our rotary wing war fighters have been key to our mission in the Middle 

East. 

However, helicopter incidents are the third-leading cause of fatalities in the Iraq 

War. In Afghanistan, in 2008 helicopter-related losses was the number 1 cause of 

deaths with direct fire being the second cause and IED attacks as third. Weatherrelated issues, disorienting brownout conditions, engine failure, wire strikes and flying into terrain of which the pilot was unaware accounts for 80 percent of Iraq and 

Afghanistan helicopter losses. Environmental conditions affect every facet of rotary 

wing operations. However, many of these losses can be mitigated with various new 

technologies, glass cockpit, and other capabilities to give the pilot the necessary 

tools. 

My question is how is the Army moving to encompassing these new instruments 

and capabilities to provide the war fighter with the necessary tools to mitigate many 

of these causes of helicopter incidents? 

Ms. MARTIN. We are aware of the Army’s attempts to address some of its issues 

with operating helicopters in the Middle East through the Joint Urgent Operational 

Needs/rapid acquisition process, but we do not know the status or results of the 

Army efforts. 

Mrs. ROBY. In working with the bases in my state, I understand the Army has 

a goal to have a joint multi-role aircraft for rotary wing transport on the books by 

2030. The concern is that emphasis has been placed on modernizing our current rotary wing fleet and we may have lost sight on moving to a new platform. Current 

platforms are going limited even with modernization in several areas that we must 

move forward including: need crafts to go faster than 200 knots, reducing logistic 

footprint and reduce fuel consumption. With all of the concerns of what the action 

of Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction will have on DOD appropriations, 

what will the possible reduction in appropriations do in impacting that deadline? 

Ms. MARTIN. Based on our previous work, we know that the Army decided over 

the last few years to focus its attention and resources on upgrading and maintaining 

its current rotary wing aircraft fleet. There are several reasons for this decision. For 

example, that fleet was being used extensively in the ongoing war efforts. The Army 

also concluded that the current fleet would be sufficiently capable at least for the 

near- and mid-term. In addition, the Army concluded that developing a new generation of rotary wing aircraft would be a major effort with significant cost and technical risks. Nevertheless, the Army has recently released to industry a request for 

information on potential capabilities for a Joint Multi-Role helicopter. With the 
82 

prospects for reductions in DOD and Army acquisition accounts, however, it is unclear at this time when a rotary wing aircraft development program will be started. 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. OWENS 

Mr. OWENS. I understand there has been some confusion as to who will maintain 

control over the tactical ISR requirements and capabilities for EMARSS, and about 

the future of the EMARSS program itself. What is the Army’s strategy going forward for EMARSS? Can you provide similar analysis on the strategy for the Joint 

Air-to-Ground Missile (JAGM) Program? 

General LENNOX. The Army is currently executing the Enhanced Medium Altitude 

Reconnaissance and Surveillance System (EMARSS) Program to build four Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) aircraft, and is on track to deliver 

these aircraft by December 2012. The Army will conduct developmental and operational testing in support of a Fiscal Year 2013 Milestone C decision. The Army’s 

acquisition objective at Milestone B was 36 aircraft. 

Concurrently, the Army has placed the EMARSS program strategy under review. 

The Army is taking a serious look at EMARSS and similar capabilities, such as the 

Air Force’s Liberty Project and the Army’s Medium Altitude Reconnaissance and 

Surveillance System. This review is a coordinated effort with the Air Force to identify potential areas of joint efficiencies, while continuing to provide the best possible 

tactical aerial intelligence support to the Soldier on the ground. Included in this 

strategy review are discussions on service oversight and required quantities of aircraft across the services. 

At this time, there are no Department of Defense (DOD) decisions transferring or 

terminating the EMARSS Program, and it is still a subject for program review. An 

Inter-service transfer of any of these programs is one of many courses of action 

being considered. As the DOD faces fiscal constraints, the Army is exploring joint 

interdependent options to field the right mixture of aerial intelligence systems. 

The Army intends to provide candid program updates as the EMARSS strategy 

becomes more refined in the coming months. 

Considering the JAGM strategy the Army is following a Three-Phased Acquisition 

Approach: 

1.) Technology Development (TD) Phase consisted of two contractors being awarded fixed-price incentive firm (FPIF) contracts competing over a 27-month period 

through Preliminary Design Review (PDR). Both contractors successfully completed 

this phase and their Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) proposals 

are currently being reviewed in the Source Selection Evaluation Board (SSEB) process. One contractor team will be down-selected at Milestone B and awarded a 4-year 

EMD Contract. 

Mr. OWENS. What is the strategy or plan to provide the Army with a modern 

Armed Aerial Scout aircraft to replace the old OH–58? I would be interested to see 

your analysis on the cost/benefit implications for continually upgrading existing aircraft as opposed to fielding a new platform. 

General LENNOX. The strategy or plan to replace the OH–58 has not been fully 

determined. An Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) is currently being conducted to analyze the question of whether to continue to upgrade the OH–58 or to develop a more 

capable platform. Cancellation of both the RAH66 Comanche Helicopter in 2004 and 

the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter (ARH) in 2008 required that the Army pursue 

a two-fold strategy to address the Armed Aerial Scout (AAS) capability. 

First, the current OH–58D Kiowa Warrior (KW) fleet needed various upgrades to 

close existing obsolescence, safety, and weight issues experienced during combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan through the Cockpit and Sensor Upgrade Program 

(CASUP). CASUP is the acquisition program that will upgrade the OH–58 aircraft. 

First Unit Equipped (FUE) is slated for FY16 with a scheduled completion by FY21. 

Secondly, an Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) was needed to address capability requirements for the AAS and to recommend solutions to either replace or upgrade 

the KW. The Training and Doctrine Command Analysis Center (TRAC) at Fort 

Leavenworth was tasked to perform the AoA and to specifically research the costs/ 

benefits of investing in future upgrades to the OH–58F versus a new start program. 

Those results will be published with the release of the AoA. Initial findings briefed 

by TRAC in May 2011 stated that a new start program would provide performance 

improvements, but at a significantly higher cost. A program that offered a Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) or Government Off The Shelf (GOTS) solution could potentially provide an affordable aircraft with trades in performance and schedule. 

The AoA was initially planned for completion in April 2011, but the Army requested an extension of the AoA with a flight demonstration in order to consider 
83 

recent industry improvements in technology and aircraft performance. This information must be considered in order for the Army to make the most informed decision 

it can regarding the benefits of staying with the OH–58 or moving to another more 

capable platform. The data gained from the demonstration will provide information 

necessary to enable the Army to decide to either retain the OH–58F and invest in 

future improvements or to start a new AAS program. 

Æ