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EXAMINING THE FEDERAL 

GOVERNMENT’S MISMANAGEMENT 

OF NATIVE AMERICAN SCHOOLS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MAY 14, 2015 

Serial No. 114–14 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and the Workforce 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/ 

committee.action?chamber=house&committee=education 

or 

Committee address: http://edworkforce.house.gov 

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(II) 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE 

JOHN KLINE, Minnesota, Chairman 

Joe Wilson, South Carolina 

Virginia Foxx, North Carolina 

Duncan Hunter, California 

David P. Roe, Tennessee 

Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania 

Tim Walberg, Michigan 

Matt Salmon, Arizona 

Brett Guthrie, Kentucky 

Todd Rokita, Indiana 

Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania 

Joseph J. Heck, Nevada 

Luke Messer, Indiana 

Bradley Byrne, Alabama 

David Brat, Virginia 

Buddy Carter, Georgia 

Michael D. Bishop, Michigan 

Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin 

Steve Russell, Oklahoma 

Carlos Curbelo, Florida 

Elise Stefanik, New York 

Rick Allen, Georgia 

Robert C. ‘‘Bobby’’ Scott, Virginia 

Ranking Member 

Rube ́n Hinojosa, Texas 

Susan A. Davis, California 

Rau ́l M. Grijalva, Arizona 

Joe Courtney, Connecticut 

Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio 

Jared Polis, Colorado 

Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 

Northern Mariana Islands 

Frederica S. Wilson, Florida 

Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon 

Mark Pocan, Wisconsin 

Mark Takano, California 

Hakeem S. Jeffries, New York 

Katherine M. Clark, Massachusetts 

Alma S. Adams, North Carolina 

Mark DeSaulnier, California 

Juliane Sullivan, Staff Director 

Denise Forte, Minority Staff Director 

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(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on May 14, 2015 ............................................................................... 1 

Statement of Members: 

Kline, Hon. John, Chairman, Committee on Education and the Workforce 01 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 03 

Scott, Hon. Robert C. ‘‘Bobby’’, Ranking Member, Committee on Education and the Workforce ............................................................................. 04 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 06 

Statement of Witnesses: 

Roessel, Dr. Charles, Director, Bureau of Indian Education, Department 

of the Interior, Washington, DC .................................................................. 8 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 10 

Mendoza, William, Mr., Executive Director, White House Initiative on 

American Indian and Alaska Native Education, Department of Education, Washington, DC ................................................................................ 17 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 19 

Additional Submissions: 

Questions submitted for the record by: 

Thompson, Hon. Glenn, a Representative in Congress from the state 

of Pennsylvania ............................................................................................. 55 

Bureau of Indian Education, responses to questions submitted for the 

record ............................................................................................................. 58 

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(1) 

EXAMINING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT’S 

MISMANAGEMENT OF NATIVE AMERICAN 

SCHOOLS 

Thursday, May 14, 2015 

U.S. House of Representatives, 

Committee on Education and the Workforce, 

Washington, D.C. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:30 a.m., in Room 

2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. John Kline [chairman 

of the committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Kline, Foxx, Thompson, Walberg, Guthrie, Rokita, Heck, Brat, Carter, Bishop, Grothman, Russell, 

Curbelo, Stefanik, Allen, Scott, Grijalva, Polis, Bonamici, Pocan, 

Takano, Jeffries, Adams, and DeSaulnier. 

Staff present: Lauren Aronson, Press Secretary; Janelle Belland, 

Coalitions and Members Services Coordinator; Kathlyn Ehl, Professional Staff Member; Matthew Frame, Legislative Assistant; Amy 

Raaf Jones, Director of Education and Human Resources Policy; 

Nancy Locke, Chief Clerk; Daniel Murner, Deputy Press Secretary; 

Krisann Pearce, General Counsel; Lauren Reddington, Deputy 

Press Secretary; James Redstone, Professional Staff Member; 

Mandy Schaumburg, Education Deputy Director and Senior Counsel; Alissa Strawcutter, Deputy Clerk; Leslie Tatum, Professional 

Staff Member; Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy Advisor; 

Tylease Alli, Minority Clerk/Intern and Fellow Coordinator; Austin 

Barbera, Minority Staff Assistant; Kelly Broughan, Minority Education Policy Advisor; Jacque Chevalier, Minority Senior Education 

Policy Advisor; Denise Forte, Minority Staff Director; and Tina 

Hone, Minority Education Policy Director and Associate General 

Counsel. 

Chairman KLINE. A quorum being present, the Committee on 

Education and the Workforce will come to order. Good morning. 

Welcome, to our guests. 

I would like to begin by thanking Dr. Roessel and Mr. Mendoza 

for participating in the hearing. 

I must say, we are disappointed that Kevin Washburn, the assistant secretary of Indian affairs, declined an invitation to join us 

this morning. I think Mr. Washburn would bring an important perspective to this discussion, and it is unfortunate the public and 

members of the committee will not hear from him today. 

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2 

However, we are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses and look forward to your testimonies today. 

Today’s hearing is part of an effort to begin addressing the challenges facing Native American schools. In recent months the nation 

has learned a great deal about the deplorable, deplorable conditions affecting Native American schools. A crisis has been festering 

for decades and, thanks in large part to the investigative work of 

the Minneapolis Star Tribune and others, it is finally receiving the 

national attention it deserves. 

The details we have learned are shocking: falling ceilings, broken 

water heaters, electrical hazards, rotten floors, and rodent-infested 

classrooms. At a school I visited earlier this year, blankets hang 

over the doors in a desperate attempt to keep out the cold air. 

And I am talking cold air. In northern Minnesota, every winter 

those temperatures drop down to 20, 30, sometimes 40 below. 

In fact, thin metal walls are all that separate students from 

harsh winters in states like Minnesota and South Dakota. Meanwhile, classrooms lack the most basic school supplies, such as 

desks, chairs, and textbooks. 

At a recent oversight hearing we also learned that a bungling bureaucracy is undermining the health and safety of these Native 

American students as well as their education. The nonpartisan 

Government Accountability Office notes that a disorganized bureaucracy and poor communication make it difficult, if not impossible, for schools to receive the services and support they need, and 

GAO warns that if these issues are not addressed, quote: ‘‘it will 

be difficult for Indian Affairs to ensure the long-term success of a 

generation of students,’’ close quote. 

More than a century ago the federal government promised to provide Native American students a quality education in a manner 

that preserves their heritage, and we are failing to keep that promise. If these were our loved ones going to these schools, there is little doubt we would march down Pennsylvania Avenue to demand 

real change. 

Jill Burcum, an editorial writer for the Star Tribune, said this 

at last month’s hearing, quote: ‘‘As a mom, I thought many times 

that I would not be comfortable sending my children to school in 

these buildings. Unfortunately, mothers of BIE students don’t have 

a choice, which is why action is required.’’ 

The purpose of today’s hearing is not to assign blame. There is 

plenty of blame to go around. 

Instead, the purpose of this hearing is to understand the root 

causes of these persistent challenges and to demand better results. 

That is why we are pleased to have representatives from the Departments of Interior and Education. 

We are especially pleased to hear from you, Dr. Roessel, since 

you and your staff are on the front lines. 

We understand the Department of Interior plans to implement a 

number of internal changes intended to fix the system. We welcome 

that effort and are interested to learn more about it. 

Questions have been raised about whether this effort will address the fundamental problems facing the system or simply rearrange the chairs at the department. Questions have also been 

raised about whether this reorganization is taking place in a timely 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

3 

manner or being delayed by the same bureaucratic wrangling that 

has plagued these schools for decades. 

The administration has a responsibility to answer these and 

other important questions and to assure this committee, Congress, 

and the country that we are finally moving in a new direction. 

These vulnerable children and their families deserve no less. 

In closing, I would note that there are tough challenges facing 

Native American students outside the jurisdiction of the Department of Interior—challenges that demand our attention as well. 

That is one reason why the Student Success Act provides greater 

flexibility to all public schools, so they can more effectively serve 

their unique student populations, including Native American students. Policies in place today assume every school faces the same 

set of challenges, but we know that is not the case, and the Student Success Act would ensure federal policies reflect that reality. 

Replacing No Child Left Behind continues to be a top priority 

and one that I am hopeful we will finish before the end of the year. 

However, the challenges facing these particular Native American 

students have been neglected for far too long by members on both 

sides of the aisle. 

I encourage my colleagues to avoid political distractions that 

would merely shift the focus away from these unique, vulnerable 

children. They have waited long enough for the Federal Government to live up to its promises. 

Every child in every school should receive an excellent education. 

That is the goal we are all working toward, and today’s hearing is 

an important part of that effort. 

With that, I will now recognize Mr. Scott, the ranking member, 

for his opening remarks. 

Prepared Statement of Hon. John Kline, Chairman 

Committee on Education and the Workforce 

Good morning, and welcome to our guests. I’d like to begin by thanking Dr. 

Roessel and Mr. Mendoza for participating in this hearing. We are disappointed that 

Kevin Washburn, Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs, declined an invitation to 

join us this morning. Mr. Washburn would bring an important perspective to this 

discussion, and it is unfortunate the public and members of the committee will not 

hear from him today. However, we are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses and look forward to your testimonies. 

Today’s hearing is part of an effort to begin addressing the challenges facing Native American schools. In recent months, the nation has learned a great deal about 

the deplorable conditions affecting Native American schools. A crisis has been festering for decades, and thanks in large part to the investigative work of the Minnesota Star Tribune and others, it is finally receiving the national attention it deserves. 

The details we have learned are shocking: falling ceilings; broken water heaters; 

electrical hazards; rotten floors; and rodent-infested classrooms. At a school I visited 

earlier this year, blankets hang over the doors in a desperate attempt to keep out 

the cold air. In fact, thin metal walls are all that separate students from harsh winters in states like Minnesota and South Dakota. Meanwhile, classrooms lack the 

most basic school supplies, such as desks, chairs, and textbooks. 

At a recent oversight hearing, we also learned that a bungling bureaucracy is undermining the health and safety of these Native American students, as well as their 

education. The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office notes that a disorganized bureaucracy and poor communication make it difficult – if not impossible – 

for schools to receive the services and support they need, and GAO warns that if 

these issues are not addressed, ‘‘it will be difficult for Indian Affairs to ensure the 

long-term success of a generation of students.’’ 

More than a century ago, the federal government promised to provide Native 

American students a quality education in a manner that preserves their heritage, 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

4 

and we are failing to keep that promise. If these were our loved ones going to these 

schools, there is little doubt we would march down Pennsylvania Avenue to demand 

real change. 

Jill Burcum, an editorial writer for the Star Tribune, said this at last month’s 

hearing: ‘‘As a mom, I thought many times that I would not be comfortable sending 

my children to school in these buildings . . . unfortunately, mothers of BIE students 

don’t have a choice, which is why action is required.’’ 

The purpose of today’s hearing is not to assign blame. There is plenty of blame 

to go around. Instead, the purpose of this hearing is to understand the root causes 

of these persistent challenges and to demand better results. That is why we are 

pleased to have representatives from the Departments of Interior and Education. 

We are especially pleased to hear from you, Dr. Roessel, since you and your staff 

are on the front lines. 

We understand the department plans to implement a number of internal changes 

intended to fix the system. We welcome that effort and are interested to learn more 

about it. Questions have been raised about whether this effort will address the fundamental problems facing the system or simply rearrange the chairs at the department. Questions have also been raised about whether this reorganization is taking 

place in a timely manner or being delayed by the same bureaucratic wrangling that 

has plagued these schools for decades. 

The administration has a responsibility to answer these and other important 

questions, and to assure this committee, Congress, and the country that we are finally moving in a new direction. These vulnerable children and their families deserve no less. 

In closing, I would note that there are tough challenges facing Native American 

students outside the jurisdiction of the Department of Interior, challenges that demand our attention as well. That is one reason why the Student Success Act provides greater flexibility to all public schools, so they can more effectively serve their 

unique student populations, including Native American students. Policies in place 

today assume every school faces the same set of challenges, but we know that’s not 

the case, and the Student Success Act would ensure federal policies reflect that reality. 

Replacing No Child Left Behind continues to be a top priority and one that I am 

hopeful we will finish before the end of the year. However, the challenges facing 

these particular Native American students have been neglected for far too long and 

by members on both sides of the aisle. I encourage my colleagues to avoid political 

distractions that would merely shift the focus away from these unique, vulnerable 

children – they have waited long enough for the federal government to live up to 

its promises. 

Every child in every school should receive an excellent education. That is the goal 

we are all working toward, and today’s hearing is an important part of that effort. 

With that, I will now recognize Ranking Member Scott for his opening remarks. 

Mr. SCOTT. Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for 

holding this hearing. This is the second hearing in as many months 

on Indian education, but before that it had been 7 years since a 

hearing had taken place. So I am grateful that today we will be 

able to consider the full range of issues impacting American Indian 

and Alaska Native students. 

Our prior hearing focused on the deplorable conditions of many 

schools operated by the Bureau of Indian Education. It was important, and I am pleased that the Bureau of Indian Education will 

be sharing their plans to address these conditions with us today. 

And, Mr. Chairman, as this is not a partisan issue, none of us 

want to see any student going to a school in the conditions as you 

have described. Schools need to be fixed. They need to be fixed 

without delay. 

The conditions of these school buildings not only affects the 

health and safety of students, it impacts their ability to learn and 

sends a disheartening message that these conditions are good 

enough. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

5 

We want to be clear: it isn’t good enough. The students should 

not have to go to school in freezing classrooms, leaking roofs, exposed wires. These conditions should not persist. 

I am eager to hear from the Bureau of Indian Education about 

its recent reforms and initiatives to improve these unacceptable 

conditions. 

I am also eager to work with you, Mr. Chairman, and the committee to ensure that there is adequate federal funding to remedy 

these conditions. Appropriations for construction for BIE schools 

have fallen 64 percent from 2006 to 2015. This sharp reduction in 

funding has doubtlessly contributed to the deplorable conditions of 

many of the schools. 

However, as important as it is to fix these school buildings, we 

must also acknowledge that fixing the buildings will only solve a 

small part of the problem. Only 7 percent of American Indian students attend BIE schools; the vast majority, about 93 percent, attend regular public schools. Addressing the challenges facing these 

students requires a comprehensive and coordinated commitment 

across agencies. 

For that reason, I am particularly pleased that Bill Mendoza, the 

executive director of the White House Initiative on American Indian and Alaska Native Education, is here today. And I am particularly eager to learn about the important work of Generation Indigenous, an initiative focused on removing the barriers that stand 

between American Indian and Alaskan Native youth and their opportunity to succeed. 

Look forward to hearing more about this comprehensive approach that includes work from the Department of Education, 

Health and Human Services, and the Department of Interior. 

The Federal Government holds a special trust responsibility with 

tribal nations. Treaties, laws, and court decisions require the Federal Government to protect tribal lands and sovereignty. 

We must also provide resources to ensure the success of tribal 

communities. The delivery of educational services is arguable the 

most important resource that we can provide, and sadly, it is an 

obligation that we have not met. 

The reality is that American Indian and Alaskan Native children 

face some of the bleakest outcomes of any racial or ethnic subgroup 

in the United States. These students have the lowest school graduation rate, with an aggregate graduation rate of about 69 percent. 

When we look at the graduation rate for students in the Bureau 

of Indian Education schools, the picture is even worse. Barely half 

of the students graduate in 4 years. 

A 2011 study from the Alliance for Excellent Education spoke to 

the impact of the high dropout rate and pointed out that if many 

of the students were graduating, they would be earning a lot more 

than they are earning today. This kind of economic loss is a tragedy for individuals. This also impacts the economic future of our 

nation. 

There are opportunities to change things. Many tribes are optimistic about the work at the Department of Interior and through 

the White House initiative. However, after centuries of neglect, 

there is also skepticism. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

6 

The long history of broken federal promises to tribes and their 

children requires Congress to be vigilant in our oversight, and it 

is important that our witnesses understand that we are watching 

and we are committed to make things right. 

So thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank our witnesses for being here, and I look forward to 

their testimony. 

I yield back. 

Prepared Statement of Hon. Robert C. ‘‘Bobby’’ Scott, Ranking Member, 

Committee on Education and the Workforce 

Good morning and thank you, Chairman Kline, for holding this hearing. This is 

the second hearing in as many months on Indian education. Before that, it had been 

seven years since a hearing had taken place. 

I am grateful that today we will be able to consider the full range of issues impacting American Indian and Alaska Native students. Our prior hearing focused on 

the deplorable conditions of many schools operated by the Bureau of Indian Education. That was important and I am pleased that the Bureau of Indian Education 

will be sharing with us its plans to address these conditions. You should know that 

there is no partisanship on this issue. None of us want to see any student going 

to school in conditions like the ones we learned about at the last hearing. The 

schools need to be fixed. And they need to be fixed without delay. 

The condition of BIE school buildings not only affects the health and safety of students, it impacts their ability to learn and sends a disheartening message that these 

conditions are ‘‘good enough’’ for you. I want to be very clear: it isn’t. No student 

should go to school in freezing classrooms, with leaking roofs and exposed wires. 

These conditions cannot persist. 

I am eager to hear from the Bureau of Indian Education about its recent reforms 

and initiatives to improve these unacceptable conditions. I am also eager to work 

with Chairman Kline to ensure that there is adequate federal funding to remedy 

these conditions. Appropriations for construction of BIE schools have fallen 64%, 

from $206.7 million in FY2006 to $74.5 million in FY2015. This sharp reduction in 

funding has doubtlessly contributed to the deplorable conditions of many BIE 

schools. 

However, as important as it is to fix BIE school buildings, we must also acknowledge that fixing these buildings will only solve a small part of the problem. Only 

7% of American Indian students attend BIE schools. The vast majority – 93%—attend regular public schools. Addressing the challenges facing these students requires a comprehensive and coordinated commitment across agencies. 

For that reason, I am especially pleased that Bill Mendoza, Executive Director of 

the White House Initiative on American Indian and Alaska Native Education is 

here today. I am particularly eager to learn about the important work of Generation 

Indigenous, an initiative focused on removing the barriers that stand between 

American Indian and Alaska Native youth and their opportunity to succeed. I look 

forward to hearing more about this comprehensive approach that includes work 

from the Department of Education, Health and Human Services, and the Department of Interior. 

The federal government holds a special trust responsibility to tribal nations. Treaties, laws, and court decisions require the federal government to protect tribal lands 

and sovereignty. It must also provide resources to ensure the success of tribal communities. The delivery of educational services is arguably the most important resource we can provide. Sadly, it has not been an obligation that has been met well. 

The reality is American Indian and Alaska Native children face some of the 

bleakest outcomes of any racial and ethnic subgroup in the United States. These 

students have the lowest high school graduation rates, with only 69% graduating 

in four years in aggregate. When we look at the graduation rate for students in Bureau of Indian Education schools, the picture is even worse. Only 53%—barely 

half—of students, graduate in four years. 

A 2011 study from the Alliance for Excellent Education calculated 

the economic impact of this high dropout rate as follows: 

‘‘If just half of the 24,700 American Indian and Alaska Native students from the 

Class of 2010 who dropped out of high school had graduated, together these 12,350 

new graduates would likely be earning an additional $147 million each year compared to what they will earn without a high school diploma.’’ 

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7 

This kind of economic loss is a tragedy for the individuals. It also impacts the economic future of our nation. 

There are opportunities to change things. Many tribes are optimistic about the 

work at Interior and through the White House Initiative. However, after centuries 

of neglect, there is also skepticism. The long history of broken federal promises to 

tribes and their children requires Congress to be vigilant in our oversight. It is important that our witnesses understand that we watching and committed to making 

things right. 

Thank you for being here today. I look forward to hearing your testimony. With 

that, I yield back. 

Chairman KLINE. Thank the gentleman. 

Pursuant to committee rule 7(c), all members will be permitted 

to submit written statements to be included in the permanent 

hearing record. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for 

the official hearing record. 

I will now introduce our distinguished witnesses. 

Dr. Monty Roessel is the director of the Bureau of Indian Education within the U.S. Department of the Interior and previously 

served as BIE’s associate deputy director for Navajo schools. Prior 

to coming to BIE, he served the Rough Rock Community School, a 

BIE-funded, tribally operated, K–12 boarding school on the Navajo 

Nation Reservation as director of community services and then as 

executive director. 

Welcome, sir. 

Mr. Bill Mendoza is executive director for the White House Initiative on American Indian and Alaska Native Education. The initiative supports activities that expand educational opportunities 

and improve education outcomes for all American Indian and Alaska Native students. Prior to his appointment, he served as the deputy director and executive director for the White House Initiative 

on Tribal Colleges. 

I will now ask our witnesses to stand and to raise your right 

hand. 

Do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony you are 

about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but 

the truth? 

Let the record reflect the witnesses answered in the affirmative, 

as they always do. 

Please, be seated. 

Before I recognize you to provide your testimony, let me briefly 

explain our lighting system, which I understand has been explained to both of you already, but now you are looking at the little 

high-tech machines in front of you. 

You have 5 minutes to present your testimony. When you begin, 

the light in front of you will turn green; when 1 minute is left, the 

light will turn yellow; and when your time is expired, the light will 

turn red. At that point, I will ask you wrap up your remarks as 

best you are able. 

I have never stopped a witness in mid-testimony, and I won’t 

today. We want to hear from you. But please, as you see those 

lights change, try to wrap up, because then we want to get to questions and answers. 

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8 

I will try to strictly enforce the 5-minute rule when we get into 

questions and comments from members of the committee, and we 

will be looking at lights there again, too, because I want to move 

it around and give everybody have a chance to be in the conversation. 

Okay. We are ready to start. 

Dr. Roessel, you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF DR. CHARLES ROESSEL, DIRECTOR, BUREAU 

OF INDIAN EDUCATION, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Good morning, Chairman Kline, Ranking Member 

Scott, and members of the committee. My name is Monty Roessel 

and I am the director of the Bureau of Indian Education. I appreciate the opportunity to testify today on the reform of BIE. 

Prior to the development of the blueprint for reform, the American Indian Education Study Group examined BIE intensely. Many 

of the GAO findings were also reviewed and discovered by the 

group. Therefore, within the bureau’s blueprint for reform and the 

proposed reorganization are recommendations that address issues 

of a lack of communication, a lack of adequate staff to oversee 

school spending, and a lack of clear accountability. 

Some examples of changes that we have already implemented to 

address a lack of communication: BIE has developed an electronic 

newsletter, a monthly webinar series on issues ranging from operation and maintenance calculations for facilities, to preparing for 

the new school construction application. BIE also holds monthly 

staff calls and monthly stakeholder calls. A directory of BIE staff 

and facility staff is now on our Web site. 

The blueprint for reform and the realignment needed to implement it is not a BIE plan or my plan, but it is a restructuring that 

embeds the voices of over 400 Indian stakeholders. Every new box 

on the org chart is based on the ideas and contributions of education and tribal leaders, parents and teachers, administrators, and 

students. These are not just boxes on an org chart, but ideas from 

the Mississippi Band of Choctaw, the Hopi, the Navajo, the 

Yankton Sioux, the Shoshone-Bannock, and many of the 64 tribes 

that have BIE schools. 

I understand that the GAO has said that we do not have a strategic plan or a communication plan and have not implemented any 

of the recommendations. I disagree. 

It must be noted that we are in the middle of tribal consultations. We have posted our strategic plan and accompanying communication plans for review. We are awaiting completion of tribal 

consultation before finalizing, but we are still using the outline of 

the plan and will post updates on the progress of our strategic plan 

this July. 

However, BIE has also taken immediate steps to ensure the accountability of funds at our schools. In 2014, there were 23 overdue 

management decisions due to audit issues at schools. As of today 

and for the last 5 months, we have zero. We are finalizing a financial monitoring tool and process that will ensure fiscal responsibility and accountability. 

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9 

The only focus of restructuring of BIE, from my perspective, is 

to improve the academic outcomes for our Indian students. Every 

decision must contribute to this goal. In other words, education 

must be the primary function of the instructional leader. 

Through our reorganization we have clarified roles and responsibilities based on school functions. We have streamlined communications. We have empowered instructional leaders to have the 

tools necessary to make decisions to improve education in the classroom and school. 

Here is a snapshot of what the BIE reform will look like: In New 

Mexico’s Isleta Elementary School, as a newly formed, tribally controlled school, they will receive specific tools to safeguard that internal controls are implemented to ensure clean audits, and also 

training for school board and effective governance. 

In Minnesota’s Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig School they will receive additional support to continue their immersion program. From our recently developed native language framework they will receive support in better utilizing their portion of BIE’s 24 million dollars to 

teach native languages with an eye towards fluency. 

When I was associate deputy director for Navajo schools I instituted a district model. I realigned functions and clarified roles, 

much like you would do with any school district in this country. 

I sought to unify professional development for teachers. We developed processes and protocols for instructional rounds that focused on improvement, not punishment. 

What were the results? For our Navajo BIE-operated schools, we 

went from making 29 percent of our schools making AYP to 54.8 

percent of our BIE-operated making AYP. This is the design and 

philosophy we are implementing across BIE. 

It is no secret that many of our school buildings are in much 

need of replacement and repair. Fifty-eight of our school buildings 

are in poor conditions. 

With the ’15 budget and our proposed ’16 budget, we are able to 

finally complete the 2004 lists. As part of our reform efforts, we are 

developing a long-range school construction plan that is much 

needed and long overdue. 

In the department’s ’16 request we are being more strategic 

when it comes to school construction. Some of our schools only need 

a building replaced and not an entire campus. Our request includes 

component replacement in addition to full school replacement. 

The department is committed to improving the conditions of 

schools within BIE so all students have a safe place to learn. I am 

happy to answer any questions. 

[The statement of Dr. Roessel follows:] 

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Chairman KLINE. Thank you very much, Dr. Roessel. 

Mr. Mendoza, you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF MR. WILLIAM MENDOZA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE INITITATIVE ON AMERICAN INDIAN AND 

ALASKA NATIVE EDUCATION, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Mr. MENDOZA. Good morning, Chairman Kline, and Ranking 

Member Scott, and the members of the committee. My name is William Mendoza and I am the executive director for the White House 

Initiative on American Indian and Alaska Native Education at the 

U.S. Department of Education. 

I appreciate the opportunity to testify today about the Initiative’s 

work to expand educational opportunities and to improve outcomes 

for American Indian and Alaska Native students, including those 

attending tribal colleges and universities. 

Coincidentally, yesterday Secretary Duncan participated in a Native youth roundtable in Denver as a part of the President’s Generation Indigenous Initiative. The plight of Native youth is an important issue for the nation and for this administration. Secretary 

Duncan has visited Indian country 11 times, and much of what I 

will outline today is informed by the conversations he and our staff 

have had throughout Indian country. 

Throughout this administration, we have worked to implement a 

policy of self-determination and to strengthen the government-togovernment relationship with tribal nations. ED understands that 

the best solutions for American Indian and Alaska Native students 

come from those who know these students best: the tribes. Since 

2010, ED has held over 35 national consultations with tribes and 

tribal leaders around the country to seek their ideas about the education challenges they face and the needs of their communities. 

In December of 2014, during the White House Tribal Nations 

Conference, the President announced his Gen-I Initiative, a comprehensive effort designed to address the educational needs, physical health, mental health, and social service needs of Native youth. 

Through Gen-I, the administration is working hard to bolster efforts focused on Native Americans, including Native youth, by 

launching a targeted youth engagement program, a new demonstration grant priority through the Department of Education, 

and a continuation of the Bureau of Indian Education reform efforts. 

While about 8 percent of American Indian and Alaska Native 

students attend bureau-funded schools, the vast majority attend 

public schools operated by local school districts on and off reservations and tribal lands. 

We are encouraged by the positive progress among American Indian and Alaska Native students, and this is thanks to the hard 

work of teachers, parents, and students. The graduation rate for 

American Indian students has increased by more than 4 percentage 

points over 2 years, the largest increase of any group of students. 

Unfortunately, it is still much lower than the national rate. The 

2014 White House Native Youth Report highlights that there is 

still much more work to be done. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

18 

The current outcomes for American Indian and Alaska Native 

students are unacceptable for this nation and the administration. 

We can and must fix this. 

The Department of Education provides support to improve outcomes for Native students in a variety of ways. There are large-dollar programs, such as Title I, for high-poverty schools, and Impact 

Aid for school districts for children residing on Indian lands. In addition, the department administers several formula grants as well 

as competitive grants designed to support the unique cultural and 

academic needs of Native students. 

Some of ED’s efforts to address the needs of these students include a specific priority for these students in ED’s new supplemental priorities, which are available for use in all ED discretionary grants. 

We also published a notice inviting applications for the Native 

Youth Community Projects, for which the administration is also requesting a $50 million increase in the President’s 2016 budget. The 

Native Youth Community Projects will fund culturally relevant 

strategies to improve college and career readiness for children and 

youth in tribal communities. 

Additionally, the White House Initiative and ED’s Office for Civil 

Rights conducted a series of listening sessions around the country 

and heard testimony from Native youth on bullying, disproportionate discipline, stereotypes, and the harmful effects of imagery 

and symbolism. 

Moreover, the administration’s Promise Zones Initiative is 

partnering closely with hard-hit urban, rural, and tribal communities to create jobs, increase economic activity, improve educational opportunities, and reduce violent crime. These Promise 

Zones currently include the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 

South Dakota and the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma. 

ED’s Office of Indian Education currently allocates nearly $2 million a year to 5 of ED’s comprehensive centers, including one content center, to provide technical assistance to state educational 

agencies and other support targeted to improve outcomes for Native students. 

And interagency cooperation is vital to the success of these initiatives. Secretary Duncan and Secretary Jewell have worked together 

to strengthen the relationship between their agencies, especially regarding the Bureau of Indian Education. 

They have held several events to highlight the importance of Indian education, and in 2013, the secretaries convened the Bureau 

of Indian Education Study Group that Director Roessel mentioned 

to identify and take action on the systemic challenges facing the 

BIE to ensure that all students attending BIE-funded schools have 

access to a world-class education. 

The two agencies are also working together through various initiatives to strengthen technical assistance between these agencies 

for Bureau-funded schools. In response to the request from tribes, 

ED collaborated with DOI to provide guidance to tribally controlled 

schools on how they may use annual funds. 

I would be happy to answer any questions and there are expansions in my testimony. 

[The statement of Mr. Mendoza follows:] 

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Chairman KLINE. Thank you very much. 

Thank you both very much. We will start now with member 

questioning. 

I will start by asking—Dr. Roessel, I was listening to your testimony, and you said education is the goal. And Mr. Mendoza said 

the same thing, and Mr. Scott. We want these Native American 

students to be well educated. 

But you can’t be well educated, in my opinion, when you are attending school wearing your coat and wearing your mittens and 

hoping that the blanket keeps out the 30-degree-below-zero air. So 

safety—we have got to start with safety. 

You have got collapsing roofs, leaking roofs, buckling floors, exposed wires, popping circuit breakers, gas leaks. That is totally, totally unacceptable. There is no way to get that education and to 

learn under those conditions. 

So when I was touring the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig School up in the 

Chippewa National Forest in northern Minnesota, and I saw all of 

these things I said, ‘‘Well, how can this be? Where is the list that 

shows when this school is going to be fixed?’’ 

And by the way, it is not that money isn’t being spent. They are 

spending hundreds of thousands of dollars making repairs. And 

yet, the school is still fundamentally a metal pole barn with all of 

those safety hazards. 

So how can it be that this school has not been on the list for replacement? How can that be? How can you have a system with a 

school like that? 

And yet, the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig High School is not on the list. 

So how can that be? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Mr. Chairman, the process of school construction 

within BIE and Indian Affairs within the department is there was 

a list that was created in 2004—priority list. And currently right 

now, with the ’15 budget we have enough money to build and rebuild the Beatrice Rafferty School. And in our proposed ’16 we have 

finally money that is being asked to build the last of that 2004 list: 

the Little Singer School as well as Cove Day School. 

Indian Affairs, through DFMC—Division of Facilities, Maintenance, and Construction—they are in the process of finalizing an 

application to create the next list. That is the process that we have. 

When I was the co-chairman of the Negotiated Rulemaking Construction Committee prior to becoming the director, we viewed a lot 

of these schools. I have been to the Bug School and I have seen 

those deplorable conditions—and I agree, it is one of the biggest 

frustrations that we have. 

In order to repair all of our schools, that report said that we would need $1.3 billion. And so of course right now we don’t have 

$1.3 billion. But what we do have within the process is to align 

with that new list is a plan going forward much like the Department of Defense did when they had a long-term plan to repair their 

buildings. 

So we are in the process of developing a 6- to 7-year plan to 

begin that process. I think we start on that road by first having 

the first Beatrice Rafferty and add two more schools— 

Chairman KLINE. When—excuse me for interrupting. When 

would we see that plan? 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

27 

Mr. ROESSEL. We hope to have it this summer—the final plan 

that will be aligned with the new school construction list. It is our 

hope that with the new school construction list that is coming up, 

the applications are due the end of June, and then we will go 

through the review of those lists and then make it public at the 

end of this summer. And that way then we would have a ranking 

of the next list for construction and also in concert with our plan 

to move forward with our ’17 budget and beyond. 

Chairman KLINE. Well, we are looking forward to that plan, and 

I think that the Native American students and American people, 

as they are starting to learn more and more about this, are frustrated because we don’t ever seem to get to it. So if you drive 

through to completion here and let’s see this plan, but I am concerned because the Bug School, which I say the same thing, it is 

a whole lot easier to pronounce, that wasn’t even on the list. 

And it is not safe. And we are spending hundreds of thousands 

of dollars to make yearly repairs. It is just not money wisely spent 

when we should be replacing the school. 

I will try to set the example here and yield back my time with 

10 seconds to spare. 

Mr. Scott, you are recognized. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. Roessel, let me follow through on that. You said you needed 

more money. What is the status of your funding request? 

Mr. ROESSEL. In our ’16 budget we have two areas. One of the 

things that we have done also with our budget is try to be more 

strategic, when I said we can—in my opening statement—replace 

an entire school or just a component. That allows us to actually address more— 

Mr. SCOTT. Well, you said you needed more money. What is the 

status of that request? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, we have asked in the ’16 budget for about 

$45 million for new school construction. 

Mr. SCOTT. And did it make it into the administration budget? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes, it did. 

Mr. SCOTT. Do you know what the status of it is in the appropriations committees? 

Mr. ROESSEL. No, I don’t. 

Mr. SCOTT. I understand the Cherokee Nation, since 2002, has 

contributed $19 million to schools serving their students. Why did 

they have to put up the—was it their responsibility to put up this 

money, or were they just making up for what the Federal Government wasn’t doing? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I am not exactly sure what their intent was to do 

that. Some schools do— 

Mr. SCOTT. Well, their schools are doing better than others. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Some tribes do provide additional funds for targeted areas that they have goals and priorities, such as maybe Native language or some specific issue like that. 

Mr. SCOTT. Well, their schools are doing better. Should they have 

had to have put up that kind of money, or should that have been 

a federal responsibility? 

Mr. ROESSEL. The federal responsibility is to provide the education, and through BIE we are. Programs that are above and beCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

28 

yond that I think are at the discretion of tribes and part of their— 

at their discretion. 

Mr. SCOTT. Okay. You indicated a significant improvement in 

schools—in bureau schools—making annual adequate yearly 

progress, but still, half are still failing. When can we expect virtually all of the schools to come up to standard? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think in a reform effort it takes 3 to 5 years as 

we move forward. I think we are taking some action immediately 

that has shown improvement. 

The focus of our reform efforts is how do you improve the instruction in a classroom. That is what we are trying to build. Everything builds upon that, even the school buildings. You know, 

how do you expect to improve instruction if the walls are falling 

around them? So it is a comprehensive approach that we are addressing. 

What our plan is, is you build a better system of instruction, a 

better system of leadership, a better system of accountability for 

that, and I think that is what our reform effort does. It does align 

our accountability, and in the past we had people doing a lot of different things. Now we have had clear roles and responsibilities. 

Mr. SCOTT. A recent GAO report suggested a huge number of vacant positions: 40 percent of regional facility positions are currently 

vacant. Is that still true? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I would believe so at this point. BIA is not under 

my purview, but I don’t think that we have made any big gains in 

hiring people. 

Mr. SCOTT. Is that affecting your ability to educate children? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Not directly at this point. What is affecting our inability is trying to get our staff—BIE teachers and principals— 

hired, and I think that is something that we are doing with quality 

people, and I think that is something that we want to do as we 

move forward. 

Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Mendoza, one of the things that we are finding 

on solving achievement gaps—one of the things we are finding is 

that the achievement gap doesn’t happen in school, it happens outside of school—children starting out behind, summer slide, where 

they regressed during the summer, and other outside of the schoolhouse. What can be done to reduce the achievement gap by presenting a holistic approach to education rather than just a in-school 

approach? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Appreciate the question, Congressman Scott. 

The challenges, as you mentioned, are needing a collective impact approach, and I think this is one of the not only tenets of how 

we have tried to respond to what we have heard from not only tribal leaders and educators, but that there is a shared responsibility, 

there are tribes who, like the Cherokee, are willing to resource 

more to, you know, really address those challenging needs that 

many of our American Indian and Alaska Native students are dealing with. 

And so our Native Youth Community Projects were designed 

with this focus in mind, to take culturally responsive approaches 

in a comprehensive way to provide for the kind of flexibilities that 

we have heard from tribal leaders and educators and to be able to 

apply those, whether those services are needed in school or out of 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

29 

school, but to keep focus on the college and career readiness that 

we know that those students will need to get to to not only aspire 

to complete, but to also get at, you know, the really core issue is 

jobs within Indian country. 

So through the Native Youth Community Projects, through the 

Promise Zones Initiative, much of the shared goals around building 

tribal capacity to do this work, and then the partnership components all, as I would frame as collective impact, are essential to 

creating much more different contexts than we have historically 

been involved with. 

Chairman KLINE. Gentleman’s time has indeed expired. 

Mr. Carter? 

Mr. CARTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Dr. Roessel and Mr. Mendoza, for being here. 

Let me preface my remarks by sincerely saying that if at any 

time I appear to be disrespectful that it is not my intent to do that. 

But I have some questions for someone who—truthfully, I have 

never even been on—to one of the tribes or visited your area, so 

I don’t really understand it that well. 

But I just want to ask you, are there students who are on the 

reservations—do they have the option to attend a public school if 

there is one nearby? 

Mr. MENDOZA. They do. And many reservations, as I said in my 

testimony, are—have public schools that—over that—well, all of 

them do. And so the vast— 

Mr. CARTER. All— 

Mr. MENDOZA.—the vast majority of Native students, 93 percent, 

attend public schools. So any given reservation and upwards of 50 

percent to 70 percent of their reservation population are attending 

a public school. 

Mr. CARTER. If the performance, as you testified and as we have 

learned, the performance of the Indian schools are below that of 

the public schools, why don’t we just let the public schools onto the 

reservations and have the public schools there? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think the—when we have—you know, we have 

183 schools in our system, and 129 of those are operated by tribes. 

The reason tribes get involved is they are able to operate, so they 

are able to exercise their tribal sovereignty. They are able to teach 

Native language; they are able to teach Native history; they are 

able to teach Native culture. 

In public schools you don’t have that same opportunity. Well, 

some schools do. Some districts do. But that is a big reason why 

tribes want to maintain that control of their education. 

Mr. CARTER. And I understand that, and I am fully respectful of 

that, but if that option were there and if we made sure that option 

were there, wouldn’t it make more sense, instead of duplicating 

something, to just try to incorporate it in there? And I am very respectful of the fact that you want—and very thankful that you 

want to maintain your heritage, and I think that is extremely important. But it just appears to me that could be done through the 

public school system. 

Mr. MENDOZA. So, Mr. Carter, I think that goal is a part of this 

comprehensive work. The way that tribes see this, and certainly 

Native students, is that language, history, and culture for any stuCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

30 

dent—and this is what they have been telling us—is the foundation 

of their ability to succeed in all of the other areas that the world 

is working to advance. And the diversity that represents, the ways 

of knowing—bringing—that they bring to those school systems, 

whether that is reflected in the Bureau of Indian Education schools 

or public schools, are the kinds of condition that we know are not 

only driving innovation and excellence for other areas of the country where we are bringing diverse perspectives to the country, but 

it is also addressing an economic imperative. 

You know, these are some of the most economically depressed 

concentrations in the country, and this should be a priority and 

focus for not only bureau-funded schools, but public schools as well. 

So the keys to success is having that reflected within the school 

systems, and that is where we are trying to bring partnerships together to address those challenges. 

Mr. CARTER. I understand that. But it appears to me that it is 

much more of a problem than just the physical facilities. 

What about—tell me about your teachers. If a teacher on a reservation in an Indian school—do you only take teachers who are 

Indian? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Within our Bureau at Indian Education we have, 

again, those two systems. So one are federal employees, and so 

they are paid very well. 

Then you have tribal schools, and they don’t only take tribal 

members. They will take the best-qualified teacher they can. Now, 

that is— 

Mr. CARTER. But if that qualified teacher doesn’t understand the 

heritage and culture and everything, then that is not doing what 

you want it to do. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, I think one of the things that happens with 

these schools on the reservations is they also then provide programs and opportunities to teach the teachers on the students. I 

think that is— 

Mr. CARTER. Okay, that—and I don’t mean to interrupt you. I 

understand. But the final question I have is exactly that. 

Do you ever take those teachers who are at the Indian schools 

and have them interact with the teachers who are at the public 

schools who are succeeding and we know that they are doing things 

that work, so that they can learn and take that back with them? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes, we do. And I think it is important to mention, 

too, that it is not that public schools are way up here at BIE. There 

is a school in Arizona, Tuba City Boarding School, and it is—across 

the street there is a public school—high school. Tuba City Boarding 

School has made AYP 8, 9 years in a row. The public schools 

around it have not. Teachers that are teaching at the public school 

have their kids go to our school. 

So it is—what we are trying to do is take those successes, where 

we have them, and scale them up. 

What is it that they have there? They have strong leadership. 

They have strong professional development. They have these things 

that can help build. That is what we are looking at. 

I think to pit us against public schools—you know, there are very 

good public schools on reservations; there are very good BIE 

schools on reservations. How can we learn from both? 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

31 

I think the ability to have both—you know, we talk about school 

choice. Well, that is school choice. We talk about a tribally controlled school. What that really is a charter school. They have a 

federal system, and that is a tribal—a federal type of charter school 

in a way, so they are able to do different things. 

So I think it is wrong to say just public schools are doing so 

much better. I think there are pockets of success and we need to 

learn from both pockets. And— 

Chairman KLINE. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

Mr. Takano? 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Roessel, I represent Riverside, California, and I have Sherman Indian Institute in my district. Can you tell the committee— 

many committee members don’t know that we have residential Indian—Native American schools. How many of them exist in our 

country? Do you have a number? 

Mr. ROESSEL. We have—trying to get the exact number here— 

about 30 percent of our schools have residential programs with 

them, and we have standalone residential dorms that those students then go to public schools, and then we also have schools like 

Sherman that actually have a school and a residential program 

combined. 

Mr. TAKANO. So it is a boarding school. It is a boarding school. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Boarding school. 

Mr. TAKANO. How many of those boarding schools, like mine, 

exist in the country? There are relatively few, aren’t there? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, like yours, that is from an area, there are 

five. I believe there are five— 

Mr. TAKANO. Five in the country? 

Mr. ROESSEL.—serve a large population. But we have quite a few 

across the system individually, like in Navajo and Akomas. 

Mr. TAKANO. But there are five that are like mine, that are like 

Sherman Indian Institute. And they—any Indian Native American 

or indigenous person can go to these schools if they find out about 

it, right? They have a right to go to one of these schools? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes. 

Mr. TAKANO. About how much money do we spend on these five 

schools? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I would have to get back to you on the exact number of that. 

Mr. TAKANO. Do you have a knowledge of how well the students 

are doing in these residential schools like Sherman? 

Mr. ROESSEL. A lot of our— 

Mr. TAKANO. And who—what kind of students tend to go to these 

schools? 

Mr. ROESSEL. A lot of our off-reservation boarding schools are 

coming from homes that are not the best and conducive for learning. Some are trying to get away from certain avenues. Some are 

court-ordered students. Some want to just try a different part of 

the country and attend. 

So you have a myriad of different types of students from many 

different tribal backgrounds, too. We have, I believe Sherman in 

Riverside. We have a Riverside school in Anadarko, Oklahoma and 

we have like 40 different tribes that are served there. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

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Mr. TAKANO. So in general these schools tend to have students 

that come from backgrounds that are challenged. Is that fair to 

say? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes, that is fair. 

Mr. TAKANO. And that is—that tends to be the student population at these schools. Do you feel that they are adequately funded? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think in the case—some of them I—it is difficult 

to say. The Sherman Indian School has a very progressive vocational program, and it is the best in our system. 

Mr. TAKANO. Partly funded by one of the local wealthy tribes. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Exactly. 

Mr. TAKANO. Yes. 

Mr. ROESSEL. One of the tribes. Exactly. 

Mr. TAKANO. Mr. Mendoza, I noticed that a lot of these students 

come from Navajo country. Do you know about this—do you know 

about Sherman Institute, and the student body there, and the fact 

that many of the students come from Navajo country? 

Mr. MENDOZA. I do. I do. We actually had a large delegation from 

Sherman Indian School participate in our student environment listening sessions that we had in Los Angeles, and so we heard direct 

testimony from them about not only the challenges that they face 

in finding their way to an opportunity like Sherman Indian School, 

but the challenges that they feel like they have within that setting, 

and they really emphasized they are worried about where they are 

going next. 

And so I think to get back to Mr. Carter’s point about the comprehensive nature of this work, it is absolutely essential for us to 

begin to look at not only how tribes are meaningfully involved in 

there, but also the individual student experience and the continuum that they move along. 

Mr. TAKANO. Given that these students come from challenged 

backgrounds, is there enough proprietary interest by the stakeholders in the governance structure? 

I have a lot of school districts that I work with, I have school 

boards that are elected, and they are local and I can work directly 

with them. But the struggle for me as a member of Congress who 

represents such a school—and I want to make it—I want to be able 

to create a school and encourage the development of a school that 

is truly a center of excellence and opportunity and to do the things 

necessary to connect them to the local community college, the University of California, whatever we have to do—to the private universities in the area. 

But it is elusive how to deal with a governance structure—I understand that a lot of time there is not enough people for a quorum 

for the governance or that—it must be difficult to have governance 

from—of a school where the tribal members are kind of distant 

from the school itself. I mean, do you feel there is an—the governance structure is adequate? 

Mr. MENDOZA. I think any governance structure, if it is leading 

to outcomes that raise concerns for us and we can identify areas 

where we can be better, I think that could take some work. And 

I know that we see that at the—through the study group, through 

the reforms that Director Roessel is putting in place. I think that 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

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is an acknowledgement that we can do things better for school districts. Certainly Sherman Indian represents that. 

We need to be purposeful about that. If we are going to change 

that, it takes education. It takes organization, and it takes providing the kind of supports that school boards need, ensuring that 

our teachers and our leaders are not only quality when we bring 

them into the institution, but if there is mediocracy there then we 

need to be addressing that. 

Chairman KLINE. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

We have—my colleagues on both sides are playing the ask-thequestion-with-15-seconds-left, and then we are getting the answer. 

And I want everybody to have their full 5 minutes so I am going 

to be a little bit more aggressive. 

And I apologize in advance to Dr. Roessel and Mr. Mendoza, if 

I stop you in the answer, because we have a lot of members that 

just want to ask questions. 

Mr. TAKANO. I apologize. 

Chairman KLINE. I am just watching you. 

Mr. Russell, you are recognized. 

Mr. RUSSELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you both for your testimony here today, and also your 

efforts that you do in trying to make this education better. 

In the course of the testimony it has come up that both the Cherokee and Choctaw tribes, which obviously we have Oklahoma ties 

to, have had some success in dealing with a lot of the educational 

concerns, largely due to good leadership and also tribal resources 

that are made available. So it shows that success stories can happen with good leadership and good resources. 

It seems that the streamlining of leadership and resources 

among the various agencies would focus the effort and give it more 

educational impact. If they were all under the BIE, Dr. Roessel, 

how would you change the current system? 

Mr. ROESSEL. All BIE schools, or— 

Mr. RUSSELL. For the educational shortfalls that we are seeing, 

if you were given full responsibility, rather it—than it being dispersed among the various agencies, how would you fix it? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, I think one of the first things I would do is 

expand the participation of tribes. These are their students. This 

is their future. And I think too often in the past we have actually 

not provided a place for them to be in looking at the education. 

They are the ones that are closest to those students. They are 

their kids. And I think trying to bring them to the table and giving 

them the resources and capacity and the training to develop their 

own tribal ed department so they can be full partners, just like the 

state of Virginia can be a full partner in the education of their students. 

I think that is what I would do probably first and foremost, because then you are talking about them being able to—tribes being 

able to develop standards, curriculum, to be able to align what is 

most important. If they have more than a few schools in their— 

within their reservations, maybe they make one a magnet school, 

a school for the arts or a STEM school. It gives them the capacity 

to make those decisions on their own. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

34 

And that is what I would do is try to say how can we try to build 

tribal participation up, build their capacity, and then move forward 

from there. 

Mr. RUSSELL. With the limited resources on construction and seeing how it impacts everything, as a follow on, how would you 

prioritize that? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, I think the first priority has to be on the 

safety—the critical safety areas and needs, is prioritizing those. 

And right now the DFMC, Division of Facility Construction and 

Management, have done just that. They have a line item that is 

called ‘‘facility improvement and repair,’’ and they are targeting 

those most critical elements with that fund to try to make sure 

that, to the best extent possible, our schools are safer. 

Mr. RUSSELL. Thank you for that. 

And, Mr. Chairman, my last question. 

Mr. Mendoza, can you specifically address how the GAO shortcomings that were identified with regard to staff, oversight, and 

data tracking are being fixed? 

Mr. MENDOZA. I appreciate the question and the opportunity to 

speak to our role in trying to help the Bureau of Indian Education 

address some of the findings from the General Accountability Office 

report. 

One of the key things has not only been to work with the Bureau 

of Indian Education to begin to provide technical assistance—we 

have not only worked directly with the BIE, in terms of their capacity and trying to advise accordingly on the formula programs 

that they manage; we had, prior to the emphasis that has been represented under the secretary’s commitment to address these areas, 

we worked with our risk management services, all of our program 

offices, and developed a corrective action plan that is quarterly advanced in relationship to any areas of concern. 

In terms of technical assistance on a broader level, our Office of 

State School Support, as it works with other states, you know, 

began—is in the process now of looking at some key areas of capacity for the Bureau of Indian Education as they have communicated 

those needs. 

On the school level, for the funded schools themselves, the issue 

of facilities, certainly technology and technological infrastructure, 

we have been able to partner with the BIE to get more clarity 

around how they can use annual formula dollars to be able to resource them and purpose them in ways that they might not otherwise have understood. So this collective effort is building that capacity that we are looking for and I think is in response to many 

of the findings in the GAO report. 

Chairman KLINE. Gentleman’s time has expired. 

Mr. Polis? 

Mr. POLIS. Thank you. 

Dr. Roessel, as has been acknowledged for many years, Native 

American students have had some of the worst educational outcomes in the country and many of the problems cited involve 

schools and being plagued by bureaucracy and red tape. 

As you know, charter schools are public schools that provide 

flexibility from traditional rules and regulations that govern and 

sometimes strangle both public or Bureau of Indian Affairs schools. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

35 

This type of flexibility allows charter schools to focus curriculum in 

specific areas, like science or math or Native American heritage. 

In this case, it could allow Native American youth to learn their 

own language and culture in school. How can the Bureau of Indian 

Affairs encourage high-quality charter schools on reservations and 

collaborate with national charter school organizations? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think one of the first things is, as I mentioned 

earlier, the Bureau of Indian Education, we directly operate some 

schools—about 59 of them. The others are tribally controlled 

schools, which we call, in one word, a grant school. 

In many ways, if they were talking about charter schools back 

in 1988, when the Tribally Controlled School Act was passed, they 

may have called it a charter school. That— 

Mr. POLIS. So just a quick follow-up question: So they have the 

type of autonomy where they choose their own staff, the length of 

their school day, their curriculum—the type of autonomy traditionally associated with the charter school? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes, sir. 

Mr. POLIS. And go ahead, and so you are developing those and 

encouraging that type of autonomy? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think we are encouraging that type of autonomy, 

in addition bringing the tribes into it so that they have that type 

of autonomy. And some tribes have come to us and said, ‘‘Can we 

provide—you know, get a charter management company to come in 

and oversee our schools?’’ And they have that opportunity if they 

so choose. 

So the Tribally Controlled School Act gives tribes and schools a 

lot of autonomy to move forward and create those curriculums and 

different approaches that they want. 

Mr. POLIS. And is there an active process that a tribe can apply 

to—what is it called, what is the word you used, grant—to become 

a grant school as opposed to be centrally run? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes, there is. 

Mr. POLIS. Okay. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Part of an initiative that we just had our first year, 

and it is called the Sovereignty in Indian Education Initiative, and 

that is really moving tribes in a direction that they look at their 

school system in its totality, so they focus on the H.R. aspect, the 

finance aspect, governance, and academics, and they are able to be 

very creative. And we have had some really good results for the 

tribes. The interaction and collaboration between tribes has been— 

Mr. POLIS. I also wanted to address the issue of LGBT bullying 

in schools. As you know, there are many students that are bullied 

simply because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. I 

wanted to ask what the Bureau of Indian Affairs is doing to prevent bullying against too-spirited or LGBT students and discrimination in the Bureau of Indian Affairs schools. 

Mr. ROESSEL. That is something that I think we can do more on. 

Within our system we—again, with this reorganization and restructuring we are trying to identify those areas that we have been lax 

in the past and what we can do as we move forward. 

Mr. POLIS. Do you currently have an anti-bullying policy that includes bullying based on sexual orientation or gender identity? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes, we do. 

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Mr. POLIS. And so you will be working on some of the enforcement of that and the modification of that. 

The Bureau of Indian Affairs FY 2016 budget requests zero funding for juvenile education. No other federal program exists to assist 

at-risk Native youth who are adjudicated. How does the BIA plan 

to address the educational shortfall facing the most at-risk Native 

youth, including those who are juveniles in custody? 

Mr. ROESSEL. We fund—and one of the proposals moving forward—and Mr. Mendoza can probably speak to this in greater detail with Department of ED—but we have JDCs, juvenile detention 

centers, that are within the BIE system, and we are—have a partnership and a contract with education providers to provide that 

education for them while they are in there. 

One of the things that we are also looking to do and have started 

this process is to actually share the data and information. When 

a child might be in a detention center, they may not come from 

that tribe where that detention center is; they may be in a different 

one. So if we share our information system we then can identify 

when there might be a child in a detention center that is off the 

reservation or outside of the area of a school. 

So we are trying to focus on first identification of them and making sure that we can follow them. 

Mr. POLIS. Thank you. 

I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairman KLINE. Thank the gentleman for yielding back. 

Mr. Curbelo, you are recognized. 

Mr. CURBELO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank 

you and Chairman Rokita for your attention to this very important 

issue, and of course, to the ranking members, as well. We are clearly failing many of these children, and I appreciate everyone looking 

for solutions. 

I had a question for Mr. Mendoza with regards to the structures 

that govern BIE. Department of Interior, in my view, is a department that is focused on issues mostly foreign to education, and perhaps there is a dissonance there between the BIE’s mission and the 

department’s mission. 

From your perspective, Mr. Mendoza, would it make sense for an 

agency like the BIE to be housed under DOE instead of the Department of Interior? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Thank you. 

On the onset, this is something that has been discussed with 

tribal leaders early on in the administration. They wholeheartedly 

and without equivocation rejected the idea of any such move of the 

BIE from the Department of Interior to anywhere else, so I want 

to say that on the onset. 

The question is how do we improve the delivery of services, and 

irregardless of where we think that is situated within the federal 

family, we not only have a responsibility to ensure that our students—American Indian and Alaska Natives—whether they attend 

bureau-funded schools, tribally controlled, or public schools, are receiving a world-class education. 

And I agree with Dr. Roessel, this is reflected in our policies and 

how we jointly, the two agencies, worked to address this issue, that 

tribal leaders are the missing piece to what we are talking about 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

37 

in the governance structure of schools right now. How can we begin 

to create a system where educators are supported and tribal leaders are involved so that there is a shared responsibility in the tribal context—reservation lands and tribal communities? And then 

how are we building that outwards? 

There are exciting things happening right now in states like 

Montana. Washington is on the cusp of that. We also have North 

Dakota looking at, you know, the coordination of essential understandings that makes it better for Native students to navigate 

these systems, but also gets at the added value of what they bring 

to the rest of our population in the United States. 

And so that is kind of the structure, and I think governance is 

key to that, as you have already pointed out. 

Mr. CURBELO. Well, I think we certainly should take into account 

the view of the tribes on this issue, but I certainly believe that at 

the very least DOE should be given a greater role. I mean, for all 

our criticisms of DOE—Department of Education—we recognize 

that it is the only federal department almost exclusively dedicated 

to ensuring that children in this country have access to a quality 

education. 

So I certainly believe that at the very least it would make sense 

to expand Department of Education’s role in all of this. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Chairman KLINE. Thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Jeffries, you are recognized. 

Mr. JEFFRIES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank the witnesses for their presence here today. 

Mr. Mendoza, can you drill down for me on the comparison of the 

performance of Native American students in BIE schools as compared to the performance of students—Native American students 

within the traditional public school system? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Certainly. Appreciate it. 

We know that through the National Assessment for Education 

Progress, that in terms of that survey and that information, 

through the NAEP, that the gaps between American Indian and 

Alaska Native students that attend public schools and Bureau of 

Indian Education are certainly concerning. They are only incrementally different than public schools. And as I pointed out in my testimony, these are the worst indicators among many ethnicities. 

But, given that, we also see progress. And so the 4.7 percent gain 

in graduation rates for American Indian and Alaska Native students overall in the adjusted cohort graduation rate represents a 

jump from 65 percent to 69.7 percent. 

We have also learned that early learning for Native kindergarten 

students are held back at nearly twice the rate of their white kindergarten peers. And then 22 percent of Alaska Natives in the 

higher education realm age 25 and older have not finished high 

school. And 39 percent of Native students who enrolled in a 4-year 

institution in the fall of 2004 completed a bachelor’s degree by 

2010, as compared to 62 percent of their white students. 

So these numbers on a national level are kind of our baseline information for the state of Indian education. 

Mr. JEFFRIES. Now, am I correct that on a given reservation it 

could be the case that you have some Native children who attend 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

38 

a BIE school and there may be others on that same reservation 

who attend a traditional public school? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Could you repeat the question? Sorry, Mr. 

Jeffries. 

Mr. JEFFRIES. That there are some instances where on a given 

reservation you could have some children who attend a BIE school 

and others from that same reservation who may attend a traditional public school. 

Mr. MENDOZA. Yes. Yes. The majority of students, as a matter 

of fact, if not a vast majority. Many reservations 50 percent attend 

public schools; there are some 70 percent, 90 percent is actually the 

norm rather than the exception. 

Mr. JEFFRIES. And in that circumstance, are there perceptible 

differences on a reservation-by-reservation standpoint? In other 

words, children on the same reservation presumably subjected to 

some of the same socioeconomic conditions or other factors that 

may impact an education—is there a perceptible difference on a 

reservation basis as to how those students might perform in a BIE 

school as compared to a traditional public school? 

And, Dr. Roessel, you could weigh in if you want to, as well. 

Mr. MENDOZA. In general, it depends on the same kind of measures that any urban or rural comparison or suburban rural—you 

know, I come from a state like South Dakota and the experiences 

in Montana, where Billings isn’t the same as a Denver, Colorado, 

and neither is a Rapid City the same as a Minneapolis. 

And so it comes down to teacher quality; comes down to leader 

effectiveness; it comes down to adequate infrastructure and resources. And so there may be differences, but where we see those 

differences it usually amounts to one of those factors being stronger 

in one area or worse in another. 

There is high mobility among these students from those urban to 

suburban to urban, and so we see that being a challenge for these 

systems to not only track those students but ensure that where 

they left off, that the next system picks up on the experience of 

those students. 

Mr. JEFFRIES. Dr. Roessel, I think that the suicide rate amongst 

Native American teens is perhaps the highest of any population 

group in the country. I think it is more than 2.5 the national average. 

You know, what, if anything, is being done to address this phenomenon specifically, and/or the underlying factors that may lead 

to such an alarming rate? 

Mr. ROESSEL. One of the primary factors, if you look at suicide 

rates for young people, is identity—where they fit in into the culture, into the community, into their traditional culture or the Western culture. And I think one of the things that I think BIE tribally 

controlled schools and BIE-funded schools really focus well on is 

bringing in that tribal type of education—talking about language, 

heritage, culture, history. 

That helps identify. Research shows that if a student knows who 

they are, they are less—they are going to be more successful, they 

are less likely to have problems. 

Chairman KLINE. I am sorry, the gentleman’s time has expired. 

Mr. Grothman? 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

39 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Thank you. A few questions. 

First of all, on one of the sheets we have here I just wanted to 

make sure this is right. They talk about per-student funding for 

these schools, and they give us the last 4 years. I think the year 

we are about to begin they are anticipating $20,600 per child. Is 

that accurate? 

Mr. ROESSEL. No. That is not accurate. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. What do you think the funding is per 

child on one of these— 

Mr. ROESSEL. I will use the GAO number, which said about 

$15,000, but it—and they said it was higher. But I would—also in 

the very next sentence they talk about the reasons why. 

Our schools have to also have a water department. They have to 

have a housing department. They have to have an EPA inspector. 

They have all these other things that most schools have within a 

municipality. 

So in our case with BIE schools, you have a lot of other needs 

because they are so remote. A lot of our schools predate the public 

school system in these very remote areas. 

And I think it comes back to Mr. Jeffries’ question in terms of 

one of the reasons why is that these are in very remote locations 

where we have some of our schools, and so they have to do a lot 

of other things than just educate. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. The numbers they give us here, they do 

say $15,000 for Bureau of Indian Affairs, but then they say the Department of Education is kicking in another $4,700. That is how 

they get over this $20,000 number. 

You know, some money coming in from Bureau of Indian Affairs, 

some money coming in from Department of Education. They say 

when you combine those they are well over $20,000. Is that possibly true? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Again, the part of the money is being used for 

things other than just education. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. 

Next question: You said a lot of the kids are attending the public 

schools, but when you have a Bureau of Indian Affairs school are 

they still covered by state laws as far as licensure is concerned, 

mandated state tests, that sort of thing? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Most of the process that we have within our BIE 

is that we defer to the state from which the school resides, so yes. 

In terms of the graduation, most of our schools, because, as Mr. 

Mendoza mentioned, a lot of our students go from one school to another, they have adopted graduation requirements that are similar 

to the state so that they are not falling behind if they were to 

transfer to another school within their state. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. Now, I mean, I assume, you know, like I 

said, we have this $20,000 figure, and they are saying about $4,700 

actually from Department of Education and $15,800 from Bureau 

of Indian Affairs. 

I realize a lot of these schools are very small in their economies 

of scale, and I know smaller schools—but even then, even, let’s say, 

$5,000 is going for something else. That has still got to be way over 

that national average per child. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

40 

Is there some breakdown as to where this money is going, or the 

average amount spent per teacher per school, or is some of the 

money getting stuck up in the Bureau of Indian Affairs bureaucracy? How do you go through that much money? Still not— 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, again, I think, I mean, I will—just look at 

the GAO report. They actually explain it that, again, when I say 

we have a water treatment center, when I was a superintendent 

of school I had to have my own water department. We had to do 

testing to comply to EPA standards. 

We had to have our own housing, so we had our own housing 

maintenance people. You know, so you have all these other things 

that a city would take care of if they had a school district. 

You don’t have that in Indian country. They have to take care 

of everything. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay— 

Mr. ROESSEL.—fire department was also something we had to— 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Yes. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Things like that. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. I will give you one final question. There have 

been people trying to poke around as to why the test scores aren’t 

that good, and people never like to talk about family and this. 

But it seems to me that normally when I talk to my teachers a 

lot of times the family has a big impact on how well the children 

are doing. And, you know, we have been through a situation in this 

country over the last 50 years in which the number of children in 

nontraditional families has grown through—because various federal programs encourage not raising children in a traditional family. 

Do you have statistics on the reservations or among these kids 

the number of children who have, say, a mother and father at 

home, rather than not a mother and father at home? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I don’t have statistics, but anecdotally, we know 

that is happening and their—the families are large at the homes, 

so they have grandparents and parents and aunts and uncles. And 

so a child may not have their own room. So we know that 

anecdotally. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. I don’t understand. You say there are a lot of 

children in traditional family or are not? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I would say there are a lot that are not. They are 

very young families, parents that are very young. 

I know when I was superintendent the age of some of the parentteacher conference participants were very young; you thought they 

were actually students sometimes. So you don’t have that foundation that you might have. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Well, young—the young thing doesn’t— 

Chairman KLINE. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

Ms. Bonamici? 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 

Chairman Kline and Ranking Member Scott. This is an important 

hearing, an important issue. 

It is pretty clear that we have work to do both to improve the 

Bureau of Indian Education schools as well as addressing the educational outcomes for all American Indian and Alaska Native students. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

41 

So Salem, Oregon, which is just south of the district I represent, 

there is the Chemawa Indian School. It has been open since 1880; 

it is the oldest continuously operating off-reservation boarding 

school in the country. 

It has struggled over the years with budget deficits, and there 

appears to be a clear need for some improved federal support and 

oversight. 

And of course, Chemawa is not alone. There are too many, as we 

heard already, Bureau of Indian Education schools that are operating facilities that are in disrepair and need some work, and also 

produce graduation rates and math and reading scores that aren’t 

what they need to be. 

But we also need to discuss the educational outcomes and the 

dropout rates that affect the more than 90 percent of American Indian and Alaska Native students who are enrolled in public 

schools. And I am glad we are talking—having that conversation, 

as well. 

Director Mendoza, you discuss in your testimony the STEP, State 

Tribal Education Partnership program. In Oregon the Confederated 

Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation are participating, the 

confederated tribes in the Pendleton School District, and that partnership have yielded some promising results. The state, the local 

education agency, and the tribal education agency have collaborated on a new educator evaluation system, and that places emphasis on the students’ culture and heritage. 

Can you discuss the preliminary results of the STEP program? 

Do we have information about student outcomes? How is that program working? 

And I do want to save time for a question for Dr. Roessel, as 

well. 

Mr. MENDOZA. No, thank you for the question. 

The STEP program, when we came here to Congress in, you 

know, kind of the idea of it 2010, 2011, we were met with, you 

know, how is this going to work? You know, not only was there 

lack of faith and concern for whether or not tribes were ready to 

do this or whether states were willing to do this or vise versa. 

STEP is now, coupled with the Sovereignty in Indian Education 

Grant and the 2020 Grants that are on their way, really calling 

that question. 

Ms. BONAMICI. How widespread is the use of the STEP program? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Yes. So we have six tribes and four grants represented through there. It is a small amount, but this is how movements start. This is how tribal college and university movement, 

but 40 years, you know, dramatically changed the experience for 

Native education— 

Ms. BONAMICI. So you would say that is an effective partnership? 

Mr. MENDOZA. It is effective. It is tremendously effective, really 

popular. We just finished a webinar the other day that talked 

about the application process for STEP. Over 80 participants were 

on the phone there. 

The tribes are working with their state educational agencies. 

State education agencies are building their capacities simultaneous 

to tribal education agencies, and we are getting to concrete outcomes— 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

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Ms. BONAMICI. Terrific. 

Mr. MENDOZA.—around what their—outlined in their programs. 

Ms. BONAMICI. That is very encouraging. 

Mr. MENDOZA. And it is only in its third year of funding, so we 

are really excited about this momentum. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Terrific. Thank you so much. 

And, Dr. Roessel, I mentioned the Chemawa School in Oregon. 

They currently have a superintendent but at times they have had 

to operate without one. They have had challenges. It is just an example of the challenges that the BIE schools face retaining effective school leaders, and it is—I don’t think that anyone would disagree that effective school leadership is important. 

So can you talk about strategies that have proved effective at recruiting and retaining school leaders and educators to work at the 

BIE schools? And if there are effective strategies, can those be replicated? And what might be some of the barriers that are preventing wider implementation of those successful strategies? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Thank you for that question. I think in terms of 

Chemawa, we are very excited with the superintendent that is 

there and the way she is turning that school around and really 

working well with the students. 

One of the challenges that we have in recruiting quality staff, 

whether they are teachers or principals or superintendents, is 

housing. Teacher housing is very difficult. 

I know we hear stories all the time, and I have experienced it 

myself, where we have hired a teacher. They drive out to the 

school, they see their house, they never even unpack their U–Haul. 

They just keep driving because it is just so deplorable. So we need 

to try to repair those. 

I think one of the things that we have done, in partnership with 

ED, is the clarification that they have made for our schools of 

money that can be used to help renovate some of the houses that 

we have out in Indian country, so that is one of the big things I 

think that will—it is a little thing but it has a big impact if you 

can have a good teacher there as opposed to starting school without 

a teacher. 

And so I think the other thing, too, is that we need to—with 

HUD we have a $10 million in the ’16 budget to try to build new 

teacher housing, also. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you. 

My time has expired. Thank you. 

Chairman KLINE. Gentlelady’s time has expired. 

Mr. Brat, you are recognized. 

Mr. BRAT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you all for being with us today. I just have a couple kind 

of big, 30,000-foot kind of questions. You are kind of in a unique 

situation where you have the ability to envision your future, and 

we want to help. 

And so at the end of the day, our public school systems face huge 

challenges with the vision problem. They want to pack everything 

into the curriculum, right? 

And so we want to do the skills stuff, the STEM stuff, the fine 

arts get left behind a lot of times. We want to teach kids about 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

43 

business. They graduate high school without even knowing what a 

business is sometimes. 

Parents have multiple objectives in their mind, right? They want 

success in business, but they also want, you know, reading, writing, 

and arithmetic skills inculcated. 

And so just so we are on the same page, I mean, what is the vision you have for these kids? At the end of the day, when they 

graduate from high school, what do you want to see? 

I mean, if you could have it, your dream, ideal education—because you talked about your culture and history and all that. I am 

hugely in favor of that. Without meaning and passion in their life 

the kids don’t even know why they are studying. 

So at the end of the day, what is your vision for what you want 

for these kids at the end of, say, high school? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think one thing is that they would be in a position to make a decision and not have a decision made for them, so 

that they can say, ‘‘I want to go to college,’’ or maybe in some cases, 

like when I was at Rough Rock I had a graduate who said, ‘‘I want 

to become a medicine man. I want to learn my grandfather’s ways.’’ 

That is just as successful. And he was accepted to colleges. 

So I think it is giving them the tools that they can make a decision, and that is reflective of who they are, where they come from. 

Of course, it has to have reading and writing and math to be successful today. But you have to know who you are. 

And when you come from a tribal school, when you come from 

a tribal community, when you talk about education you are talking 

about nation-building. You are talking about sovereignty. 

So they come in and it is about survival. But when they leave 

it is about identity. And so I think that is what I would see as a 

vision for our BIE system or any system that deals with Indian 

students. 

Mr. BRAT. Any difference or— 

Mr. MENDOZA. No. I think we share a lot of that in common, and 

I think I would add—maybe Dr. Roessel is saying the same thing— 

opportunity, making sure that they, in their foundation of who they 

are, they know that that’s been—it is certainly absent, but 

throughout history has been, by no fault of their own, and their 

parents, and others, torn from them, if not purposefully targeted 

for elimination. 

And so they need that in order to provide for a foundation of 

these other areas that I know that they would want to seek opportunities in math, language, science, you know, all of the other fields 

that every other youth in this country aspire and dream about, but 

they want to know who they are. And they know that their family 

members have a lot to contribute to that, and right now they are 

not—at least in—out beyond the tribal colleges—or tribal—tribally 

controlled schools, they are not seeing that in the systems that 

they navigate. 

So they want to come back to their communities, just like rural 

Bozeman, Montana, other places like that. And so they want to see 

their communities thrive and grow in healthy ways. 

Mr. BRAT. Good. So that is how—and then, so the vision thing 

is pretty standard. Most parents have said similar. I just wanted 

to make sure. So that sounds like the standard American dream 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

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kind of thing, getting the skills and being able to make choices and 

being prepared. 

And then up here, I mean, we used to have this thing called the 

10th Amendment to the Constitution—that is kind of an inside 

joke—where we would—states and localities were responsible for 

education. Now everything goes through D.C. and it is ineffective. 

So when you look at the structure, you are in a unique place 

where you can kind of dictate a different kind of structure if that 

is good for you. What do you see as the structure you would favor 

if you could just start from scratch, right? Have a tribe, local, state 

mandates, federal mandate—what is getting in your way and what 

kind of structure would you conceive of if you are just starting from 

scratch to get it right? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, I think the current structure within BIE, I 

think there is the opportunity, through the tribal grant—Tribally 

Controlled School Act, to allow—I don’t think it is for BIE to say, 

‘‘This is the structure,’’ and I don’t think it is right for the Federal 

Government to say, ‘‘This is the structure.’’ 

I think it is right for the tribe to say, ‘‘This is the structure I 

want,’’ to create that outcome that we talked about earlier, that vision. So I would assume it would look different at different tribes, 

just like local control looks different all across this country and 

how it is exercised. 

But I do think that there has to be accountability, and I think 

that is what tribes are looking at right now: How do we ensure 

that we get that vision, that we don’t just put money into a school 

and we don’t get where we want to go? 

And so I think the structure is accountability, and I think that 

is the word that we hear all throughout, you know, in education. 

But tribes have not had that role in accountability. Giving them 

that role in accountability, I think through the STEP grant, 

through our Sovereignty in Education grant, gives them that opportunity to build from there. 

Chairman KLINE. Gentleman’s time has expired. 

Mr. BRAT. Thank you, Chairman. 

Chairman KLINE. Mr. Grijalva? 

Mr. GRIJALVA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the 

hearing. 

Mr. Mendoza, if I may, in the initiative and in the process of 

looking at Indian country and the first Americans in a comprehensive way, one of—I—in my opinion, one of the most glaring examples of historical neglect—is education. Whether it is a traditional 

public school, a charter school, a for-profit school, a tribally controlled school, there—the statistics we are seeing about Indian education is not particular to the 7 percent BIE schools. It is reflective 

of the entire education outcomes for Native students. 

Tell me about what the comprehensive need is to look at this in 

the totality. Today we are dealing with one part, but there is a totality here that we are not talking about, and it is glaring, and it 

is not a good picture. So if you wouldn’t mind, in terms of the initiative, looking at it collectively. 

Mr. MENDOZA. Yes. Well, I—again, if I keep saying it over and 

over it is because every time I step in front of Native youth and 

elders and tribal leaders it is the first thing that they say to us is 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

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that we not only lack a meaningful role in the education of students, but it is not rooted in the foundation of language, history 

and culture. 

And whether the circumstance is on a reservation in Pine Ridge, 

South Dakota, or an urban Native center such as the secretary visited in Denver, Colorado, they wouldn’t change it for a world if it 

meant that it cost them their identity. Whether it is strong or as 

fractionated as it can be, that collective bond throughout history 

and how it is going to be moving forward is that they need that 

in order to succeed in the world around them. So they will hold on 

dearly to that. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. Yes. 

Mr. MENDOZA. So as much as educators, much as decision-makers such as ourselves can honestly say that needs to be a starting 

point, that needs to be the case if we are going to be able to address these challenges for these students. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. I think it is part of the education. You said it very 

well, that identity is critical to success. 

And, you know, after decades upon decades of forced assimilation 

with no other option and no retention of one’s culture or language, 

there’s going to be outcomes and they are not good. And I think we 

have to lay that premise on the table in the discussion of Native 

education as a whole before we start looking at parts. 

If I may, Doctor, consultation and sovereignty. Consultation as a 

mechanism for involvement of tribal leadership in the decisionmaking role that they want, and the issue of sovereignty in terms 

of being able to craft and design what they think the curriculum 

should be for the students that they represent. 

Those, I think, are key, particularly consultation, as part of the 

trust responsibility. Is that an effective—is that being used effectively, in terms of how we bring tribal leadership and tribes into 

the decision-making? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think it will be. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. Okay. 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think as we begin that process I think, again, you 

can invite someone to the table, but if there is no role for them, 

they are not going to know what to do. And so I think right now 

what we are looking at is we are defining that role. 

We are looking at saying, okay, the tribe is there, ‘‘What do you 

want?’’ The same question that was asked earlier: ‘‘What is your 

vision?’’ 

Having that turn around, and with our Tribal Education Department grant that was recently funded, that’s going to allow tribes 

the opportunity to ask that question: What do we want? What is 

our vision for education within ourselves? And then what do we 

need to do to get there? 

And so I think one of the things that BIE is doing is moving 

away from a direct provider of education and to a school improvement agency so we support the tribes, we no longer dictate to them. 

And that is where we are going with our reforms. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. I think the joint memorandum between ED and 

Interior is a good starting point because I think it provides a way 

to look at this comprehensively, as Mr. Mendoza indicated, and 

make—have some roots to what is being done. 

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The last question, just because it is about resources—little magic 

too—you have got to—resources are needed. You mentioned creating a plan for school construction based on the Department of 

Defense, since it is—which the Defense Department has done successfully. 

Could you speak to the different funding levels between the Department of Defense and Interior with regard to education, facilities, school construction, et cetera? 

Chairman KLINE. Unfortunately, you will have to answer that for 

the record. The gentleman’s time has— 

Mr. GRIJALVA. It was a good question. 

Chairman KLINE.—they are all good questions. 

Mr. Rokita, you are recognized. 

Mr. ROKITA. I thank the Chairman. I thank you for holding this 

important full committee hearing that is a follow up to the hearing 

our subcommittee had 2 weeks ago on this. These are important 

issues. We are getting to the heart of it now. 

I want to start by thanking my friend, Mr. Roessel, for appearing 

before this committee this morning. In March together we toured 

two BIE schools on the Fort Apache Reservation in Arizona, and 

I certainly learned a lot. 

I want to thank you for your service. And I don’t say that to 

other directors, necessarily, that sit in your chair, but the fact of 

the matter is the BIE has named 33 directors in the past 36 years, 

and you are one of the longest-staying directors. 

I can tell that there is passion in your work and you care about 

what is happening and what you are doing, so I will encourage you 

to continue that. We need your leadership. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Thank you. 

Mr. ROKITA. Some of that 33 in 36 years might—may be because 

of the restructuring that has taken place a number of times at the 

Bureau of Indian Affairs, and I want to know your opinion, Mr. 

Roessel, how those—if those restructurings improved or hurt the 

school system in the delivery of services, and how—your testimony 

accounts for a lot of restructuring that you want to do in the BIE— 

how is yours going to be different? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Well, I came into this position with a lot of these 

reorganizations kind of piled on top of each other. 

Mr. ROKITA. Yes. 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think when we started our reform effort we really 

tried to get to the root of it and not do another cafeteria-style reform, where let’s just pull some more and put it on our tray. Try 

to get to the root cause. The root cause is, one, our buildings are 

falling down, and our instruction needs to be improved. 

So starting from those two points, I think we have really tried 

to address how we make that change. If everything is targeted in 

that classroom, I think we have a better chance up—of finding our 

success, and that is what we really try to do. How do we support 

the teacher, get new teachers, and improve— 

Mr. ROKITA. So the previous restructurings, as obvious as it 

sounds, what you are saying, the previous restructurings didn’t 

have that focus? 

I will take that as a no. 

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47 

Mr. ROESSEL. I don’t think it had—I don’t think it—again, I 

think it piled things on. It didn’t clarify the roles; it added roles. 

And I think when you add more duties to people it made it muddier. 

Mr. ROKITA. Okay. 

Mr. ROESSEL. And I will say that, and I think we are trying to 

clarify and clear it up, things that have happened over the last— 

you know, I mean, just look at our success of BIE. We have not had 

success. And so when an organization has not had success, sometimes you wait for that perfect plan— 

Mr. ROKITA. And it never comes. 

Mr. ROESSEL.—and we can’t afford that. Our kids deserve better. 

And so this plan that we have right now I think addresses the 

fundamental issues, and that is instruction and improving it in the 

classrooms. 

Mr. ROKITA. And if asked, you will stay to carry out that plan. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes. 

Mr. ROKITA. Thank you. 

During our time together in Arizona and my subsequent visits to 

other schools in other states, it became clear that there are a variety of approaches to running the schools and addressing the issues 

that arise. What technical assistance does the BIE provide to support the tribes that are struggling to adequately serve their students, and what is the current process, if even one exists, for sharing best practices amongst the different schools? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think within our reform and creating the education resource centers, that will provide us the opportunity to 

have schools—not just a single school, but a group of schools to collaborate. So many of our schools are so small that it—we only have 

one teacher per grade level. So if you had a professional development on reading skills or decoding, you would only have one teacher working together. 

So what we are trying to do is bring a collaborative impact, so 

get schools together that can work together so you have three or 

four or five or more third grade teachers that are focused on learning. 

So I think one of the things is that—is really trying to provide 

that support to the school, to the tribes, to the teachers in a way 

that we haven’t done in the past. 

Mr. ROKITA. Do you share best practices? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Yes. 

Mr. ROKITA. And you are the facilitator of that? 

Mr. ROESSEL. We would—that is what we want within our education resource centers. 

The other thing we are doing is we have really upgraded our 

communication outreach. We are providing links and an avenue for 

our teachers to talk amongst each other and with each other. 

It hasn’t been like that in the past. One school wouldn’t know 

what another school was doing. 

Mr. ROKITA. Yes. 

Mr. ROESSEL. Now we are trying to build those links. 

Mr. ROKITA. Great. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, my time is about to expire so I will yield back. 

First time in history. 

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Chairman KLINE. I thank the gentleman. 

Ms. Adams, you are recognized. 

Ms. ADAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

Mr. Ranking Member, thank you, as well. 

And thank you, gentlemen, for your testimony. 

Poverty is a challenge facing a large number of American Indian 

and Alaskan Native students, which affects about one-third of students in that group. And studies have shown that poverty has a direct impact on a child’s readiness on their ability to learn and the 

likelihood of dropping out. 

I understand, Mr. Mendoza, that the Department of Interior has 

initiatives to address the dire conditions of schools, but what, if 

any, initiatives are underway to address the poverty rates among 

these youngsters? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Appreciate the opportunity to expand on some of 

that. 

I think one of the priorities for the administration in this area 

is certainly early learning, and through our preschool development 

grants in looking at how we can provide access, the President’s 

budget request does allow for the Bureau of Indian Education and 

tribes to have access to those important grants. That is a foundation that, you know, $7 on—return on investment on every dollar, 

and we know how critical that is for early learners as a whole, and 

especially in Indian country, where there is such a challenge on 

that early start, that is an important piece for us. 

The other areas that we have been focusing on is not only the 

formula dollars that go to provide for the unique academic and cultural needs for Native students through Title VII, but also addressing teacher leader corps through our professional development 

grants. These dollars get at that instructional gap that is the point 

of Director Roessel’s comments around the shortages that they face. 

We have over 900 teachers that have been a part of that program 

since its development. Over half of these teachers are in the process of payback, in terms of the work side of it, and so continuing 

to strengthen these programs is essential. Many of them are growyour-own programs from tribal colleges and universities. 

In our Native Youth Community Projects we are providing for 

comprehensive ways that both tribes, state educational agencies, 

institutions of higher education can provide for a diverse array of 

comprehensive strategies in school or out of school to be able to address in a community-based approach these kinds of multitude of 

issues. 

So through the development of a needs assessment, you know, 

designing those strategies could be diverse—could be addressing 

counseling, could be addressing early learning, could be addressing 

Native language revitalization and preservation. So these are some 

of the mechanisms that we call upon. 

Ms. ADAMS. Okay. Thank you. 

Dr. Roessel, given that the education standards set for BIE 

schools are set by the Department of ED, can you speak to the level 

of coordination that takes place between the Bureau of Indian Education and the Department to ensure that these programs are administered effectively? 

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49 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think one of the things that we have had as a 

goal as we started this reform effort is how do we try to increase 

that coordination and collaboration with all entities, and in particular, the Department of ED. In our proposed reorganization, the 

senior management of our Department of ED funding, that team 

that oversees special ed, that team that oversees Title I, will be 

moving back to D.C. from currently Albuquerque to continue that 

coordination and to be closer to where they need to be in order to 

have that collaboration with the Department of ED. 

So it has been a foundation as we move forward to make sure 

that we continue that collaboration, you know, either at the D.C. 

level and also out in the field. So that same staff now will be closer 

to our schools also in our realignment. So we are trying to ensure 

that we keep that coordination not just at the upper levels, but also 

down at the school level where it really makes a difference. 

Ms. ADAMS. Thank you, gentlemen. 

Mr. Chair, I yield back. 

Chairman KLINE. Thank the gentlelady. 

Mr. Allen? 

Mr. ALLEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And I am proud to say that my grandmother on my dad’s side 

was a descendant of the Cherokee Nation, and of course she was— 

played a critical role in my dad’s life. My dad was the first in his 

family to attend college and graduate with a degree, and he told 

me often what she meant to him. 

Unfortunately, I never knew her because she passed away before 

I was born. But I am proud to have that heritage. 

Certainly, you know, I have looked at some statistics as far as 

the unemployment rate. For members of the American Indian community it is about double what it is nationwide, and obviously the 

reason—at least I learned at an early age that we wanted to get 

an education was so we could get a good job. And I have had the 

privilege of providing folks, through my business career, with jobs. 

So, you know, what we are trying to find out here is how we can 

change what is going on, and, you know, one of the criticisms I 

guess is who is actually in charge here? In other words, if you could 

walk me through the organization of the Bureau of Indian Education and the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Deputy Assistant 

Secretary of Management and how their responsibilities either 

overlap or how they work together, and like I said, who is in charge 

and who do we need to look to as far as accountability. 

Dr. Roessel? 

Mr. ROESSEL. Okay. Within Indian Affairs you have the assistant 

secretary and then you have the deputy assistant secretary for 

management. They oversee the—we call him DAS–M—oversees the 

contracting, facilities, and different areas like that at a higher 

level, and then you have the BIE and Bureau of Indian Education, 

and we take care of just the educational portion. 

Currently, for any of the contracting or facilities or I.T., we do 

not have that under my jurisdiction right now. But in our proposal, 

in our restructuring and realignment with the Secretarial Order 

3334, those areas will fall under BIE, so we will have the ability 

to have our own people talk and be able to build budgets for facilities, build budgets and implement I.T. at the school level so that 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

50 

teachers have the resources they need, as well as our information 

system that with contracting we will now have the ability to ensure 

that textbooks are in the classroom on the first day of school. 

H.R. will also be a part of—with this new reorganization—will 

come under us. So we will ensure that teachers are in the classroom on the first day of school and not on the last day of school. 

So— 

Mr. ALLEN. So we are addressing— 

Mr. ROESSEL. We are addressing— 

Mr. ALLEN. Okay. Is there a timetable on this—on trying to accomplish in—so we can look to someone for real accountability in 

this? 

Mr. ROESSEL. The Secretarial Order 3334 has a timetable of 

being implemented by September 30th of this year. 

Mr. ALLEN. Okay. 

Mr. ROESSEL. We want—I want it to be done earlier so we can 

be ready for school year. Will it be fully implemented by the beginning of this school year? No. But I think parts can be and we can 

then start achieving the outcomes that we think we need in those 

areas that we no longer—or we don’t have control over right now. 

Mr. ALLEN. Well, thank you. And let us know how we can help 

you accelerate that, because obviously we need to do that. 

You talked about the state of the facilities being dilapidated and whatnot, and the President requested $1 billion in his budget for 

the Native American education, pretty much for facilities. And then 

in past funding requests there was not funding provided in the 

President’s budget for school construction. Can you tell me why we 

are, you know, why we are at this point and exactly why we 

haven’t looked at this before? 

Mr. ROESSEL. I was not here for the previous budgets, but I 

think right now a big part of the focus is, you know, we are where 

we are and how are we going to get out of it? And I think that has 

been the big focus that we have had. 

Secretary Jewell has had laser focus and commitment to try to 

improve education outcomes for Indian students, and the President 

has supported that. And I think right now what we are looking at 

is how do we try to build out of that. 

I think we are looking at that with the 2016 budget, finally complete that 2004 list, so we are looking forward, in addition, expanding the ability to provide new facilities by component or total 

school. So I think we are looking at trying to create a plan forward, 

and that is the focus now. 

Mr. ALLEN. Okay. Well, thank you, Doctor. 

My time is up. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman KLINE. I thank the gentleman. 

Everyone has had a chance to ask questions, but we have had 

some requests for a little follow up. I know that Mr. Grijalva asked 

a question and I cut him off, so we are going, without objection, we 

are going to—I am going to recognize Mr. Grijalva for a couple of 

minutes to get that. Mr. Grothman had a follow-up question, and 

Mr. Rokita did. 

So I would think this whole thing will only last 6 or 7 minutes, 

but I want to give them a chance because they will plague me if 

we don’t do this. So without objection, that is what we will do. 

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51 

And, Mr. Grijalva, you are recognized to repeat briefly your question so they have time to answer. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. Thank you very much and, Mr. Chairman, thank 

you for the courtesy. Appreciate it. 

I was talking about a helpful comparison to make. Since the Federal Government really operates two school districts, BIE and the 

Department of Defense, the helpful comparison I was looking for is 

comparing the amount of money allocated or used for school constructions at Department of Defense and the Bureau of Indian 

Education. 

Doctor or Mr. Mendoza, whomever. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ROESSEL. What we have tried to do—is take those lessons 

learned from Department of Defense and transfer them over to our 

approach with facilities. The former director of Department of Defense is on our team, and we are in the process of helping—or she 

is in the process of helping us develop a long-term strategic plan 

much like they instituted at Department of Defense. 

I do not know how much money they got at Department of Defense. I do know, and we do know, and everyone knows $1.3 billion 

is what has been identified to fix this problem. That is not going 

to come overnight. We know it is going to have to be a plan in the 

future and it is going to have to be a joint effort by the administration and Congress as we move forward. 

But we are hopeful to provide a plan to everybody so that we 

know exactly where we are going and when we expect to get there, 

and that is the completion and the updating of all our school buildings. 

Mr. MENDOZA. I think I would just add that there are two completely different contexts as well, and I think that is important. 

There was a previous kind of point that I felt like I wanted to make 

around this that, you know, work in Indian country, infrastructure 

in Indian country is expensive. You know, you get 100 percent, 150 

percent increase for crossing reservation boundaries because of the 

capacity there. 

So in addition to the multitude of challenges that Director 

Roessel pointed out, it is not only a different context but a different 

history as well. And so the growth of those systems, the changes, 

the fragmented kind of ways that Dr. Roessel pointed to in trying 

to address those challenges is a part of the reality of what Director 

Roessel is currently trying to unravel, and the secretary is trying 

to play an appropriate role in that from the standpoint of ESEA 

and other resources around the administration. 

Chairman KLINE. Thank you. The gentleman’s extra time has expired. 

Mr. Grothman, you are recognized for a couple minutes. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Yes. Just a follow up on my past questions: First 

of all, again, it says here total per-student funding of $20,500 broken down $15,000-plus from BIE, another $4,700 from the Department of Education. A lot of public schools that I am familiar with 

pay for their own sewer and water if they are in the country, so 

that is not an unusual thing or particularly expensive things. 

Could you elaborate on these high costs and maybe eventually 

get this committee maybe the finance statements from some of 

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52 

those Bureau of Indian Affairs so we can get a handle on how you 

can spend over $20,000 a child and not have enough to repair the 

roof. See what I am saying? Because most of the schools that I am 

from, $11,000, $11,500. 

I realize you don’t have that great attendance so there are economies of scale, but could you elaborate on it again and maybe afterwards get this committee just, boom, pick out some of the BIE— 

the bigger BIE schools here and say, ‘‘This is the money we are getting in; this is where it is going,’’ so we know where the money is 

going. Because for over $20,000 a child there shouldn’t be a financial problem. 

Mr. ROESSEL. I will be happy to do that. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. 

Mr. ROESSEL. I dispute the total number. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. 

Mr. ROESSEL. I think it is very easy to add all the numbers up 

and then divide by the number of students, but that is not really 

a comparable rate because you also have—each of those tribally 

controlled schools have their own administration that is a portion 

of that, so you are lumping in a lot of money. 

One of the things is, again, as we look at our school system our 

transportation cost is much higher. Many of our schools are on dirt 

roads. The turnaround on buses, the ability to keep them, you 

know, operating, as some of your colleagues when they visited Little Singer School know all too well, the dirt roads. That has a huge 

impact on the turnaround. 

The gas, as Mr. Mendoza mentioned, in terms of the oil and the 

boilers and things like that—a lot of these are old systems so the 

cost to keep them up is very high. So you have people that—like 

the school I was at we had a boiler operator, you know, somebody 

that knew things, and he really worked with just, you know, bailing wire and duct tape on an old system. So you had these things 

breaking down all the time. They have to spend money on those 

items. 

So I think, you know, when you look at transportation costs, 

when you look at, you know, sewer, when you look at a fire department—the school I was at, I had my own fire department, so a fire 

truck and the upkeep and all of these things that came with it. 

Those are things that most schools do not have. They are separate. 

And I think, you know, it is very easy to make the general statement, but I think if you start looking at the remoteness of the 

schools, the quality of the school buildings, looking at what they 

have to provide, you know, the—we had our own security—expanded security office because we were so remote. 

These different areas I think you look at, and that brings that 

number down considerably— 

Chairman KLINE. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

Mr. Rokita, you are recognized for a couple minutes for your follow up. 

Mr. ROKITA. Again, I thank the Chairman. 

I didn’t get a chance to ask Mr. Mendoza any questions. I would 

like to now. 

Mr. Mendoza, you are familiar with the Johnson-O’Malley programs, right? 

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Mr. MENDOZA. Yes. 

Mr. ROKITA. Education has been the primary user of those programs, where Native American children who go to public schools, 

those schools can get reimbursed for some of those expenses, and 

also parents of those students have a larger voice than perhaps 

usual in that public school. 

It has taken 20 years to get an accurate head count. Are you satisfied with that, as a representative of the administration? And 

what can you do to fix it quickly? 

Mr. MENDOZA. Well, I think the more appropriate person to answer this question would be Dr. Roessel, since Department of Interior administers the Johnson-O’Malley program. I think from the 

effect that it has on public education, we have a deep interest in 

the comprehensive nature that I outlined within my testimony and 

through some of the question and answer today on not only the 

health but the vitality of the Johnson-O’Malley programs, because 

they target public school students, and so— 

Mr. ROKITA. Thank you. I can probably get to Dr. Roessel quicker 

than I can to you, so let me take the last minute and ask a follow 

up there. 

When you met with the tribal leaders about moving BIE out of 

Interior, did you also talk about moving Johnson-O’Malley out of 

Interior to Education and is there an opinion there? And what is 

the administration’s opinion on that—on such a move? 

Mr. MENDOZA. I would say that was a—that was not an explicit 

part of the conversations that I recall early on, but that they assumed that would be a part of it. And so their protection of not 

only the trust responsibility that Department of Interior currently 

holds for that and any extension of that to the Department of Education was one that they wanted to see action and, more importantly, results. 

And so whether it is Johnson-O’Malley, whether it is Title VII, 

the tribal leaders want to see more meaningful involvement and 

how they could have a stronger role in the education of their citizens and the state citizens, as well. We cannot forget that these are 

state—are citizens of their states, and so in that sense there is a 

shared responsibility for these students. 

Chairman KLINE. Thank you very much. 

We have now had every one of my colleagues has a chance or 

maybe a chance-plus, so we are about to close the hearing, but I 

would like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Scott, for any closing comments that he may have. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, we are just looking at some data we have. It 

looks like the Department of Defense is getting significantly more 

money to build their schools in spite of the fact that it apparently 

costs more to build them on reservations. That is not complete, but 

we will get the exact figures. 

It is obvious, Mr. Chair, that the Bureau of Indian Education is 

making progress, but the status quo is not satisfactory. We need 

to follow up with the budget requests to make sure that the agency 

is getting sufficient resources, but we also have to follow up with 

the Department of Education to make sure that the 93 percent of 

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54 

cation they deserve; approximately 93 percent are in public schools, 

and there is a huge achievement gap there that needs to be addressed. 

So I appreciate you holding the hearing and I yield back. 

Chairman KLINE. I thank the gentleman. 

I thank the witnesses. It really was a terrific panel, as we had 

anticipated. 

This has been a knotty problem for a long time. I think that we 

all recognize that. 

I was just looking here at the Snyder Act, 1921, where the Bureau of Indian Affairs is directed to do a number of things—spend 

money, and direct, supervise, and for all sorts of things, including 

general support and civilization, including education. So the federal 

government’s tasks have been around for a long time, and it gets 

complicated sometimes by individual treaties and other legislation 

and so forth. 

But the bottom—at the end of this process we still have children 

going to schools that are not even safe. And so we do need to get 

to the bottom, and the questions a number of my colleagues—to 

you particularly, Dr. Roessel, you are the 33rd in 36 years, director, 

and there have been gosh knows how many reorganization plans. 

You talked about them stacking up and adding more responsibilities. 

It sounds in your testimony like you are really, really trying to 

clean that up and get a plan that will work, a plan for a structure 

and moving the responsibility for construction into the BIE instead 

of somewhere over here. And so that leads to the question that Mr. 

Allen had, well, who is in charge? 

Again, not to blame. We are all to blame in some degree. But 

what are we going to do about it? 

And so we are very, very anxious that your new organization succeed and that your plan succeed. And then the plan, when you are 

fully responsible here, to address the deplorable conditions in these 

schools—literally falling-apart schools—well, that plan can’t just be 

something that sits around since 2004 and nobody knows how to 

execute it or get it done. In the meantime, you had whole classes— 

whole classes have gone through school—certainly through high 

school—in northern Minnesota shivering. 

So we will be looking forward to a successful reorganization and 

to seeing the plan to address these schools as soon as you can get 

it. 

And, Mr. Mendoza, thank you very much. It is good to have a 

representative from Department of Education. 

We get a lot of chance to talk with the Department of Education. 

Not so much with the BIA and BIE. But we clearly have an education problem here and we, I think in a very bipartisan way, are 

determined to get to the bottom of it. 

So thank you very much. I appreciate your presence here today 

and your forthright answers to the questions. 

There being no further business, committee stands adjourned. 

[Questions submitted for the record and their responses follow:] 

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[Responses to questions submitted for the record follow:] 

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[Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

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