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TUNISIA’S STRUGGLE FOR STABILITY, SECURITY,

AND DEMOCRACY

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

MAY 25, 2016

Serial No. 114–193

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

MATT SALMON, Arizona 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

PAUL COOK, California 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

CURT CLAWSON, Florida 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin 

DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan 

LEE M. ZELDIN, New York 

DANIEL DONOVAN, New York 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

AMI BERA, California 

ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania

AMY PORTER, Chief of Staff THOMAS SHEEHY, Staff Director

JASON STEINBAUM, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

CURT CLAWSON, Florida 

DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan 

LEE M. ZELDIN, New York 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

Mr. John Desrocher, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Egypt and Maghreb 

Affairs, Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, U.S. Department of State ............... 5

Ms. Maria Longi, Deputy Assistant Administrator, Bureau for the Middle 

East, U.S. Agency for International Development ............................................ 12

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

Mr. John Desrocher: Prepared statement .............................................................. 8

Ms. Maria Longi: Prepared statement ................................................................... 14

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 30

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 31

(1)

TUNISIA’S STRUGGLE FOR STABILITY, 

SECURITY, AND DEMOCRACY 

WEDNESDAY, MAY 25, 2016

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:37 p.m., in room 

2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen 

(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. The subcommittee will come to order. 

After recognizing myself and Ranking Member Deutch for 5 minutes, each, for our opening statements, I will then recognize other 

members seeking recognition for 1 minute. 

We will then hear from our witnesses. And without objection, the 

witnesses’ prepared statements will be made a part of the record, 

and members may have 5 days to insert statements and questions 

for the record subject to the length limitations in the rules. 

The chair now recognizes herself for 5 minutes. 

Since 2011, Tunisians have made tremendous strides in overcoming decades of crippling authoritarian rule. Multiple free and 

fair elections, a modern constitution that enshrines women’s rights, 

a rapidly opening space for freedom of the press, and a rare commitment by Tunisia’s major political parties to negotiate and find 

mutually acceptable middle ground so that the democratic transition can continue. These are all remarkable achievements worthy 

of praise and admiration by Tunisians and outsiders alike. 

But for many Tunisians, the transition is not happening nearly 

as fast as we would have imagined 5 years ago, as they are increasingly disappointed by what is seen as slow progress. Unemployment rates are high, especially for Tunisian youth and for women, 

and public administration and democracy are still mired by corruption, delays, and competing interests that too often prevent projects 

from being implemented. 

The current government has made a lot of economic progress for 

which it deserves a great deal of credit, including passing major 

banking and investment laws which will go a long way in eventually spurring foreign direct investment and job creation. 

However, getting that message out and informing the population 

about the government’s achievements is an enormous challenge on 

its own. Tunisia’s minimally staffed legislature does not have the 

necessary resources to connect with constituents to explain their efforts, especially to those in the interior. 

2

And the central government’s outreach problems are indicative of 

the challenges ahead for Tunisia’s announced municipal elections 

in March next year. 

Among many issues that need to be solved, the cabinet and the 

legislature still need to figure out how Tunisia will be divided into 

municipalities, and there is resistance at all levels to giving up central power. 

While people see decentralization as a panacea, there is a lack 

of understanding about why the process is important, about the 

challenges it would create, and about what kinds of services should 

be expected from the newly empowered municipal leaders. All of 

these discussions are taking place in an increasingly challenging 

security environment, placing additional pressure on the government to succeed. 

Terrorist attacks in 2015 cut Tunisia’s tourism revenue in half, 

and the sector has still not recovered with many local hotels along 

the beach sitting empty. 

In March, the Tunisian military successfully fought off ISIS as 

it attempted to overtake a southern city along the Libyan border. 

And earlier this month, Tunisian security forces again foiled an 

ISIS plot, killing four, and arresting 16 others, and just last week 

took out another top leader of the Tunisian ISIS affiliate. These 

successes are encouraging, and they are evidence of the security 

sector’s growing capacity, a development which should be welcomed 

by this administration. 

The Tunisian security forces are proving themselves to be professional and capable partners that the United States can rely on to 

help fight extremism, to help push back against ISIS, and to assist 

other regional partners to face down the same threats. Tunisia is 

facing a dangerous and persistent terrorist threat from within and 

without, especially through the porous Libyan border, along the Algerian border, and from returning foreign fighters of which some 

estimates place at around 6,500 Tunisians. We need to be strengthening our security cooperation with Tunisia, including helping it to 

fight violent extremism, investing more in law enforcement through 

our INCLE programs, and assisting more with border security like 

we saw with the recent contract for equipment and training for a 

border surveillance system. So many of these security, political, 

and economic issues are intertwined and reinforcing of each other, 

that it is essential that the United States and Tunisia’s international partners remain fully committed to Tunisia on all fronts. 

I was disappointed to see the administration request almost $20 

million less in FMF funds for Tunisia this year, funds for which 

there is a clear need and would go a long way toward helping Tunisia remain stable. 

Similarly, I was disappointed to see only a modest request for 

ESF funds. There is a lot more that this administration can be 

doing, especially with technical assistance, helping making the 

structural reforms necessary to encourage investment and entrepreneurship, and with helping promote commerce, tourism, and 

trade with the United States and other partners. 

Tunisia is ready and willing to accept our assistance, and there 

is no shortage of partners who stand ready and able to program 

any help that we can provide. 

3

Tunisia is a country whose democratic, economic, and security 

successes are vital to our own interests. And despite the many 

challenges, it is overflowing with opportunity in an increasingly 

troubled region of the world. We cannot afford to be turning away, 

diverting our attention, or scaling back our engagement, and I encourage our administration to make Tunisia the priority that it 

warrants. 

With that, I am so pleased to recognize the ranking member, my 

good friend, Congressman Ted Deutch of Florida. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. 

And thanks to our witnesses for appearing here today. 

I know that this administration is committed to success of Tunisia, as are the members of this subcommittee. And I look forward 

to hearing how our policies and our systems are working toward 

that goal. 

Five years have now passed since Tunisia’s Jasmine revolution 

shook the region, and it’s been clear that Tunisians want to see 

their nascent democracy thrive. Tunisia’s leaders, while motivated 

in governing have difficult steps to take to undo decades of authoritarian rule. Unfortunately, slow progress has led to increasing disillusionment among Tunisians. 

A region in turmoil has plunged this once relatively stable country into a security crisis that has affected its ability to bring about 

much needed economic growth. Youth unemployment is estimated 

to be over 30 percent, and the lack of job opportunities is frustrating Tunisia’s young educated population, the very same demographic that drove the Jasmine Revolution. 

In a recent poll, less than a third said that they believe the government is doing a good job addressing the country’s problems. But 

hope is not lost, because the same poll found that 86 percent of 

Tunisians surveyed, still believes that democracy is the best form 

of governance. 

Last week, Tunisia was granted nearly $8 billion in financing to 

help revise the economy, including a $2.8 billion 4-year emergency 

IMF loan, contingent on economic reforms to help increase employment opportunities and strengthen public institutions and a $5 billion World Bank loan to help bring about growth and create jobs. 

The United States has invested heavily in bringing economic 

growth to Tunisia. The U.S.-Tunisia strategic dialogue most recently met in November 2015 and focused on economic opportunity, 

increasing trade, and strengthening partnerships and security cooperation. 

I hope that we will see a follow-up meeting scheduled for this 

year. The Tunisia American Enterprise Fund aimed at bringing 

business and investments back to Tunisia has ceded $60 million 

since 2013. And the recent meeting of the U.S.-Tunisia joint economic commission has focused specifically on the ag or food sector, 

small and medium enterprises and information technology. 

Unfortunately, an unstable security situation will not draw the 

new significant foreign investment that Tunisia badly needs. The 

horrific attacks on the Bardo Museum in Tunis and in Ben 

Guerdane have shaken Tunisian society and have dramatically decreased the foreign tourism that used to fuel the economy. The deVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:40 Aug 31, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_MENA\052516\20258 SHIRL
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teriorating situation in Libya, has had, and will continue to have, 

a dramatic impact on Tunisia as well. 

Libya has served as home base to several of Tunisia’s attackers. 

Tunisian forces, with the help of U.S. assistance, have stepped up 

efforts to control the border of Libya, and much of our assistance 

to Tunisia is now focused on counterterrorism. 

If the decision is made for U.S. and coalition forces to go after 

ISIS in Libya, what effect will this have on Tunisia, which has so 

far sent a large contingent of foreign fighters to train with ISIS. 

According to a recent Washington Post article, a strike in Libya 

killed 41 militants most of whom were Tunisians, just weeks before 

the attacks on Ben Guerdane. I am concerned that without greater 

prospects for employment, more young Tunisians will be drawn to 

ISIS’ steady paycheck. And bringing about this kind of real change 

will take political will. 

Thus far, Tunisia has faired well in transition of power with the 

country’s leaders uniting for the good of the country. President 

Essebsi and his secular coalition joined with the Islamist Ennahda 

to form a unity government that has seen some moderate success 

in pushing through economic reforms, but progress on many other 

needed reforms has been slow. 

In a recent surprising turn of events, last week, Ennahda announced the decision to separate religion from politics. As one 

media report put it, Ennahda’s reform appear to try to distinguish 

itself in a region where political Islam has suffered setbacks. This, 

coupled with Tunisia’s progressive by regional standards constitution bode well for the civility of the government. 

The U.S. should continue to support programs that help improve 

good governance and streamline much of the bureaucracy left over 

from the Ben Ali era, and while I am heartened by this government’s continued focus on transparency and accountability, I remain concerned about human rights abuses including those carried 

out by security forces. I also hope that we are using the voice of 

the United States Government to push for equal protection for the 

LGBT community, which has faced increasingly brutal persecution. 

There are no shortage of challenges facing Tunisia, and we must 

be clear-eyed about the ability to successfully address them. But 

there at least seems to be willingness in the government to confront them, albeit slowly. And how can the U.S. most effectively 

support these reform efforts? How can we utilize our assistance to 

show the people of Tunisia that they should still have hope? 

These are the questions that I look forward to discussing. I appreciate the administration’s continued commitment to Tunisia, 

and I look forward to productive discussion today. 

Thank you. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Deutch. 

Ms. Frankel. 

Ms. FRANKEL. Madam Chair, I will wait until my turn. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Seeing no further request for time, it is my 

pleasure now to introduce our witnesses. 

First, Mr. John Desrocher? Pretty good? Thank you. Who is deputy assistant secretary for Egypt and Maghreb Affairs for the State 

Department’s Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs. Prior to this, he 

served as deputy chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. 

5

He has also served in New Zealand, Egypt, Israel, Liberia, and 

Germany. Welcome, Mr. Desrocher. 

Next, we welcome Ms. Maria Longi. USAID’s deputy assistant 

administrator for the Middle East. Prior to this, Ms. Longi served 

in various positions with the State Department and also worked at 

the millennium challenge cooperation as its director for threshold 

programs in several developing countries. 

Welcome, Ms. Longi. We are pleased to have both of you here 

today. We thank you, both, for your service to our country. Your 

prepared statements will be made a part of the record. 

And, Mr. Desrocher, we will begin with you. 

STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN DESROCHER, DEPUTY ASSISTANT 

SECRETARY FOR EGYPT AND MAGHREB AFFAIRS, BUREAU 

OF NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE 

Mr. DESROCHER. Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking Member 

Deutch, members of the committee, I am honored to appear before 

you today to discuss our relations with the Republic of Tunisia. 

It is a pleasure to share this table with my talented friend and 

colleague, Maria Longi, USAID’s deputy assistant administrator for 

the Middle East. 

Tunisia’s 2011 revolution sparked the Arab Spring or Arab 

Awakening, which continues to reverberate throughout the region. 

While other countries have struggled with their transitions, Tunisia has emerged with a nascent yet stable democratic government. 

Tunisians have a constitution widely hailed as one of the most progressive in the Middle East, and they have conducted two sets of 

transparent and credible elections. 

I am happy to report that the Tunisian-American partnership 

continues to deepen and mature as we confront shared security 

challenges, build sustainable economic growth that benefits both 

nations, and build strong democratic inclusive tradition that serves 

as a model for the region. 

Tunisia is a reliable partner, and we can make it stronger if we 

continue to show our support. 

Tunisia continues to face considerable challenges. Between 3,000 

and 6,000 Tunisians have joined extremist groups abroad, and the 

horrific attacks of 2015 underline the very real threat that extremists pose to Tunisia. We cannot address security challenges in Tunisia without discussing Libyan instability. The attackers in the 

Bardo and Sousse attacks received training in Libyan terrorist 

camps, and there are between 250,000 and 1 million Libyans currently displaced from their own country and living in Tunisia. 

Without a permanent political solution to the ongoing strife in 

Libya, Tunisia will continue to face real and persistent security 

challenges from across the border. 

Our assistance funding is helping the Tunisian security services 

develop a more agile security forces that respect human rights and 

democratic principles. Tunisia has used the United States as a 

principal partner in its efforts to strengthen military and civil police authorities. Our support will enhance security forces’ capacity 

to counter threats from internal and external groups, monitor 

Tunisia’s borders, communicate, and coordinate internally more effectively, and combat terrorists in diverse environments. 

6

Our support also helps the civilian criminal justice sector improve respect for the rule of law and promote citizens security and 

access to justice across Tunisia. 

Additionally, in 2015, President Obama designated Tunisia a 

major non-NATO ally in recognition of our shared values and 

Tunisia’s strategic importance as a democratic success and critical 

line of defense against instability. 

Tunisia continues to develop long neglected government institutions, or practices of the old regime linger. We are concerned about 

reports of corruption at all levels of government. Tunisia’s big 10 

government moves slowly. The ongoing disputes in the key party 

of the governing coalition has slowed decision further and reforms 

do not come as quickly as we would like. 

But Tunisian officials rightly take pride in their country’s exemplary efforts to promote the rule of law, transparency, and accountability, reform its security sector, and reinforce principles of democratic governance. Tunisians across the spectrum of society recognize that human rights abuses and corruption must be addressed 

and actively seek ways to create change. In recognition of the important role of civil society in advancing reform, Tunisia has joined 

the open government partnership and is partnering with civil society to promote transparency, accountability and participation in 

government. 

Senior government officials are working to address challenges 

and repeatedly voice their commitment to reform. 

More needs to be done on all of these fronts, but establishing 

transparency and accountability mechanisms and a culture of zero 

tolerance of corruption will take time. 

Tunisia’s faltering economy compounds the challenges facing the 

Tunisian Government. GDP growth in 2015 was anemic at 0.08 

percent. Last year’s terrorist attacks devastated the tourism industry, unemployment is over 15 percent, and twice as high as that 

for recent graduates, those living in the interior of the country, and 

for women. 

Despite these difficulties, the Tunisian Government has made 

meaningful progress on economic reforms. They have already 

passed public-private partnership, bankruptcy, and banking laws, 

among others. I am optimistic that Tunisians will pass the new investment code this summer. Such reforms are laying the groundwork for increased investment trade and private sector engagement 

between the United States and Tunisia. 

As Tunisians move forward on reforms to take steps to provide 

economic opportunity, they are holding fast to their democratic 

ideals. The full range of political actors, including political 

Islamists, are working together constructively to build Tunisia’s 

democratic traditions. 

Our investments in Tunisia have been rewarded by the steady 

development of inclusive governance institutions and processes, increased stability and security, and great strides toward financial 

sustainability. As a strategic partner and powerful example of a 

successful Arab democracy, Tunisians still need and want our support. 

The development of a fully functioning and transparent democracy will take time and patience as Tunisians’ leaders strengthen 

7

their institutions. With the help of Congress and our interagency 

colleagues, we will continue our work to build an even stronger 

partner in a volatile region. 

I want to thank you, again, for the opportunity to testify, and I 

look forward to answering any questions you might have. Thank 

you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Desrocher follows:]

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Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Desrocher. 

And now we will turn to Ms. Longi. 

STATEMENT OF MS. MARIA LONGI, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR THE MIDDLE EAST, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT 

Ms. LONGI. Thank you. 

Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking Member Deutch, and members 

of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss U.S. 

assistance to Tunisia and our partnership with the Tunisian people 

as they work for a stable democracy and economic prosperity. 

We agree with Chairman Royce’s recent assertion that Tunisia 

represents hope for democracy, peace, and security in the Middle 

East and North Africa. U.S. assistance serves as an important 

demonstration of our commitment to Tunisians as they work to 

consolidate reforms. We recognize that the 2011 revolution was 

sparked by the Tunisian people’s frustrations with the stifling of 

political discourse, a corrupt economic environment, and a predatory security apparatus. 

I would like to talk briefly about how the U.S. Government 

quickly and effectively responded to support Tunisia’s aspirations 

for change, describe what we are doing in Tunisia today, and outline how we plan to scale up our support for the democratic transition and economic reforms. 

Since 2011, USAID has provided approximately $300 million to 

support Tunisia’s economic growth and democratic transition. This 

includes two sovereign loan guarantees that provided access to 

$985 million in financing, and helped support Tunisia’s efforts to 

reform and grow its economy. 

In the fall of 2011, the United States provided assistance to organizations in Tunisia that were organizing and administering multiparty elections for a Constituent Assembly charged with drafting a 

new constitution. Among our activities, we were able to connect 

U.S. Supreme Court Justices Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader 

Ginsburg with members of the Constituent Assembly, political 

party representatives, and Tunisian legal scholars. This and other 

real practical engagements with emerging Tunisian leaders and 

civil society immediately after the revolution helped us to identify 

areas we could help going forward. 

Another major area of U.S. engagement in Tunisia centers 

around its struggling economy. Through careful analysis, we identified significant constraints to job creation and economic growth in 

Tunisia, which we are working to address in many ways, including 

helping Tunisian firms unlock opportunities for growth and supporting job creation, training young entrepreneurs in marginalized 

areas, and providing technical assistance to Tunisia’s Government 

as it drafts and implements laws to improve the investment climate and encourage private sector development. 

These efforts have the immediate benefit of educating and employing Tunisia’s youth to ensure a better future for them. As an 

example of how our work is directly responding to the needs of aspiring Tunisian workers, I would like to highlight a program for 

training Tunisian entrepreneurs in marginalized areas, primarily 

those close to Tunisia’s borders with Algeria and Libya. This is a 

13

partnership with Hewlett Packard, the United Nation’s Industrial 

Development Organization, and the Government of Italy, where 

USAID leveraged our resources to bring online entrepreneurship 

training for 12,000 Tunisians. More than 1,600 Tunisians have 

found new employment through this activity. 

Among these entrepreneurs is Anis Assali, a young man who 

spent 14 months unable to find a job in the capital, Tunis, after 

earning a degree in aerospace engineering from the University of 

Tunis. He returned to his hometown in western Tunisia and decided to create his own employment by starting a business selling 

and installing solar panels. USAID-backed programs supported 

him with training and marketing and identifying reliable partners. 

His business has now grown from solar electricity to include solar 

water heating. 

Another USAID program is working with businesses like Nozha 

Dates, based 300 miles southwest of Tunis. Nozha traditionally 

sold to an export company that wanted to develop direct export capabilities. USAID helped the company improve its standards, 

which enabled it to hire 55 new employees for its direct export 

business. All in all, USAID’s programs in Tunisia have helped create more than 14,000 new jobs in 2 years alone and we are on 

track to create even more jobs by this time next year. 

Thanks to the support of Congress, USAID’s assistance is addressing targeted areas where U.S. and Tunisian partnerships can 

have the most impact. Our economic growth activities will continue 

to focus on employment through a firm level approach that helps 

firms identify and overcome internal blockages to growth, while 

also working with the Government of Tunisia to reform critical 

policies, regulations, and processes to limit the competitiveness of 

Tunisian businesses. 

The U.S. will work to strengthen local governance capacity, placing a special emphasis on marginalized communities and underserved governorates and localities. Our programs will aim to provide citizens groups and civil society organizations with advocacy 

and outreach skills to articulate community priorities. 

Right now, we have highly skilled technical teams in Tunisia 

consulting with key stakeholders to design targeted and strategic 

programs that will support Tunisia’s democratic and economic transition. As we know well, the transition to a more democratic society 

and a more open and inclusive economic environment can be rocky 

and can move at intermittent speeds. Tunisia has made impressive 

strides in the past 5 years, and we recognize that there are a still 

long way to go. 

With the support of Congress, USAID hopes to do even more to 

partner with Tunisia in its transition, working hand in hand with 

the Tunisian people to fulfill their aspirations. A successful Tunisia 

benefits the Tunisian people, the region, and the United States. 

Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Longi follows:]

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Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much for great testimony. 

We will begin the question-and-answer period. 

As both of you have stated, seeing Tunisia’s democratic transition through is critical to U.S. interests and regional stability. But 

because of a modest budget request and other issues vying for attention, it may appear as though the administration doesn’t view 

Tunisia as one of its top priorities. 

While the administration’s Fiscal Year 2017 request for Tunisia 

represents a slight increase over the prior years, the ESF request 

is for $74 million, $20 million of which is for the Enterprise Fund, 

and the FMF request is $45 million, which is $20 million less than 

last year. 

So many of the challenges in Tunisia are interdependent, and I 

fear that what will happen if the government can’t show the people 

that it can provide security while simultaneously growing the economy and expanding political inclusion could be a recipe for disaster. 

So I ask, why aren’t we doing more to promote democracy and 

governance and to contribute to the country’s badly needed economic growth? Why was the FMF request for Tunisia reduced for 

the upcoming fiscal year? And what is the status of military equipment requested by Tunisia? Is there anything being held up? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Thank you very much for your question. 

Obviously, we are and remain extremely supportive and this administration is very supportive of Tunisia and Tunisian’s efforts to 

build their democracy. And we have a robust interaction across 

many areas. Obviously, the assistance programs that we have 

talked about, but it goes beyond assistance to our governmental 

interactions and our interactions with the private sector. 

We, of course, President Caid Essebsi was here last year to see 

President Obama, and Secretary Kerry was in Tunisia last fall for 

the strategic dialogue. We also have the joint economic committee, 

which has done a great deal to address the barriers to interactions 

and trade between our two private sectors. We have a joint military 

commission that deals with our military assistance issues, and we 

recently had very useful trade and investment framework agreement discussions about trade issues particularly in Tunisia. 

On the assistance side, we have crafted our assistance program 

very carefully. We think it meets the requirements that Tunisia 

has. We think it is robust, and we will continue to have a robust 

program going forward. 

We are moving forward with our military assistance across a 

broad range of areas designed to increase Tunisian security services’ mobility, their surveillance capabilities, their border security 

capabilities, and we think that is very successful. We are moving 

forward on different aspects of military assistance very well and 

feel very positive about that. And we also have, you know, robust 

ESF programs that Maria has outlined, and you know, we feel confident that we have built an assistance program for Tunisia that 

matches its needs. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. 

Ms. LONGI. I will also say that the increase that we saw in Fiscal 

Year 2016 has prompted us to go out and design some really robust 

and new democracy programs. And so as I have mentioned, our 

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dress some of the issues that you raised, Chairman, on the local 

governance and the decentralization and the empowerment of 

youth. 

And so we are excited to get those designs completed and entrained, and I guess time will tell how much more we can absorb 

on that front. But we are moving forward robustly on expanding. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you to both. 

On the Tunisian American Enterprise Fund, it was established 

to respond to an urgent need for investment and job creation in Tunisia, but there is some questions surrounding its effectiveness. 

How many projects has the Enterprise Fund implemented so far? 

How many jobs has it helped to create? And what barometers do 

you use to measure the success of the fund? 

Ms. LONGI. Yes. So the Enterprise Fund was created almost 3 

years ago, and they did make their first investments about, almost 

2 years in, which is—from what I understand, it is pretty commensurate with prior investment funds. They did have to figure out 

how to work in the complex legal and regulatory environment, 

which is as we have mentioned is changing and improving. So that 

was part of their start. 

They have invested about $10 million to date in about five or six 

companies, and our most recent discussions with the fund tells us 

that they have about $45 million in projects that they are doing 

due diligence on right now, and they have told us that those are 

very, very promising projects. And so we expect to see a lot more 

investments this year and next as they get through the due diligence. 

I think as far as what would be successful, the goal of the Enterprise Fund is to create a robust private sector and help the SME 

sector and on lending to micro finance. And so as they make more 

investments, those will be the types of things that we are monitoring. I am not clear yet on the jobs created. We can go back and 

bring you some information on that. I would assume that it is probably not too high yet with the five companies, but we can get back 

to you on that one. 

[The information referred to follows:]

WRITTEN RESPONSE RECEIVED FROM MS. MARIA LONGI TO QUESTION ASKED DURING

THE HEARING BY THE HONORABLE ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN

According to TAEF’s Monitoring and Evaluation annual report, in calendar year 

2015 TAEF created 524 jobs.

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much. And I also would like 

to point out that we have the Tunisian Ambassador to the United 

States with us, a good friend of this subcommittee. 

Welcome, sir. 

And with that, I am very pleased to yield to my good friend, Mr. 

Deutch, for his time. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thanks, Madam Chair. 

Mr. Desrocher, last week the head of Ennahda said we are leaving political Islam to enter Muslim democracy. We are Muslim 

democrats who no longer claim political Islam. Two questions. One, 

what are the implications for Tunisian democracy? And, two, does 

the statement have broader implications for the future of political 

Islam in the Middle East? 

20

Mr. DESROCHER. Thank you very much for the question. 

Regarding Ennahda, the Ennahda party has played a very constructive role in the development of Tunisia’s democracy since the 

revolution in 2011. They have played actively in the political 

sphere consistently, continuously since then. They have worked 

well with the rest of the Tunisian leadership in this very consensus-based approach that Tunisian leaders have taken to building their democracy. We think that is very laudable. Ennahda 

stepped back, last year, during a difficult period in Tunisia in favor 

of a caretaker government in advance of the national elections that 

were held last fall. Ennahda participated in those and is in Parliament and is also in the current cabinet and continues to participate very constructively. 

As far as the announcements that you mentioned, you know, as 

you noted and as the leadership of Ennahda has said publicly, they 

are taking the step to draw distinction between political activities 

and between, you know, religious and cultural and civic activities. 

What that will mean in practice I think that, you know, we will 

see going forward. But, certainly, Ennahda’s track record suggests 

that they have up until now and we certainly, you know, think 

they will continue to play a very—make a very productive and useful contribution to the building of Tunisian’s democracy. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you. And, Mr. Desrocher, just to stick with 

you for a second, homosexuality remains a crime in Tunisia, punishable by up to 3 years in prison. Some LGBT defenders have accused the police of being complicit in crimes against the community. This is seemingly in congress with Tunisia’s values of pluralism and tolerance. And I just wonder whether this intolerance 

might alienate potential investors, whether it might challenge 

Tunisia’s economic recovery? 

Mr. DESROCHER. That is something that concerns us as well. For 

many reasons, including, as you say, you know, it is not consistent 

with Tunisia’s desire to create a welcoming environment for the investment that it so badly needs. This is a topic that we are in continuous contact with Tunisian counterparts about and also with 

Tunisians themselves. Our Embassy is in regular touch with advocacy groups that are concerned about these issues and it is something that we are concerned about and that we address with our 

Tunisian counterparts at every opportunity. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Great. I appreciate that. 

Ms. Longi, I was struck, and I think perhaps a lot of us don’t 

think enough about the Libyan refugee issue. The number is somewhere between, I think 1⁄4 million and up to 1 million displaced 

Libyans in Tunisia. What is being done to assist them? How does 

the government—I guess this is for both of you. But has the government approached this issue and what impact does it have on 

economic growth within Tunisia? 

Ms. LONGI. USAID has not addressed the Libyan refugee issue 

specifically, and so I am going to punt. 

Mr. DESROCHER. Certainly. You know, the influx of Libyans into 

Tunisia has certainly put a strain on, you know, the availability of 

housing, the Tunisian medical system, and so on, which I have to 

say, Tunisians have reacted extraordinarily admirably and 

supportively to this influx of refugees from Libya. 

21

But it is something that is causing a strain. And really, you 

know, what, of course, we really need to do is redouble our efforts 

with Libyans, with our partners in the international community, to 

strengthen a unity government in Libya and to restore some stability there so that, you know, Tunisia is not put in the position 

of having to host this really considerable number of people. 

Mr. DEUTCH. All right. Thank you, both. 

I yield back my time. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Deutch. 

Mr. Weber of Texas. 

Mr. WEBER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Gosh, I am learning some things about Tunisia here today. The 

population of Tunisia, I guess, is only——

Mr. DESROCHER. About 11 million. 

Mr. WEBER. About 11 million. How many square miles? 

Mr. DESROCHER. I am sorry. I am not real good at that kind of 

geography. Sorry. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. But it can’t be bigger than Texas, right? Nothing is bigger——

Mr. DESROCHER. No. For the record, nothing is bigger than 

Texas. 

Mr. WEBER. I just want to make sure. So according to my notes, 

President Obama designated it as a major non-NATO ally. How 

many major, or non-NATO allies do we currently have? Do you 

know? 

Mr. DESROCHER. I would have to go back to be certain. I think 

it is—boy, you know, instead of speculating, I will go back and 

check. It is in the realm of a dozen or so, perhaps, slightly more. 

But let me get back to you. 

Mr. WEBER. So how many NATO allies? 

Mr. DESROCHER. 28 members of NATO. 

Mr. WEBER. So 28 members of NATO, and we have about—and 

we have designated about—or the President has, or at least at this 

point there is a dozen non-NATO allies? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Let me get back and make sure I know the 

numbers there, because they are spread all over the world. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. So I notice we are doing some things. We are 

helping them with arms sales. How do we make sure the arms 

don’t fall into the wrong—one of you said, and I don’t want to put 

words—there was 3,000 to 6,000 Tunisians joined extremist 

groups? Is that right? 

Mr. DESROCHER. The estimate is that roughly that number have 

left Tunisia to join Daesh and other extremist groups primarily in 

Iraq and Syria. 

Mr. WEBER. Is that from 2011 on? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Yeah. That would be over the past years. Yes, 

that is right. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. But starting with the quote/unquote——

Mr. DESROCHER. Yes. Yes. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. You said there are 11 million. So 6,000—3,000 

to 6,000 have joined. 

How are we making sure that the arms that we are helping Tunisia with don’t fall into the wrong hands? 

22

Mr. DESROCHER. Well, we have got, you know, very robust and 

close relations with our compatriots—with our counterparts, I 

should say, in the Tunisian security sector. And we are helping 

with lots of training. We are helping with material, particularly 

that helps in regards as far as mobility and border security and 

surveillance and so on. 

And generally, as a rule, these foreign fighters are leaving the 

country in dribs and drabs through commercial means by various 

routes to get to Iraq and Syria. Meaning they are not really in a 

position to take things with them unfortunately. 

Mr. WEBER. Which leads me to my next—is it—how do you say 

your name? Is it——

Mr. DESROCHER. Desrocher. 

Mr. WEBER. Desrocher. Mr. Desrocher, are any of the political 

leaders leaving the country? Are they identifiable as part of the 

that 3,000 to 6,000 route? Any notable defections so to speak? 

Mr. DESROCHER. No. No. Not at all. These are young men, you 

know, generally from pretty challenged backgrounds who, you 

know, as I think a couple of the speakers have noted today, have 

been pulled in by some of this propaganda that we all see regarding ISIL and its goals. But this is—no, it is not a leadership issue 

in that sense. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. And then, is it Longi? Is that how you say 

that? 

Ms. LONGI. Longi. 

Mr. WEBER. Ms. Longi, you said earlier that your team is going 

out to design, and I think I am quoting you now, real robust democracy programs or something to that effect. How do you define 

a real robust democracy program? Tell us about that. 

Ms. LONGI. Well, with the increased funding that we received in 

Fiscal Year 2016, real and robust. So we are looking at the needs 

on the ground and consulting with stakeholders. The areas where 

we are most likely to engage are on the decentralization in the 

local government, reforms that were enshrined in the new constitution. And so we are going to be collaborating with the World Bank, 

part of the World Bank program that was reference earlier. We will 

do work in this area and we will try to plug in where we can have 

an impact there. 

Some of the other areas where we will work is with these new 

and stronger local governments, working with them on public financial management so——

Mr. WEBER. Forgive the interruption. But when you say new 

local governments, states, counties, cities? How do you define 

those? 

Ms. LONGI. The municipalities. 

Mr. WEBER. Municipalities. 

Ms. LONGI. They are defined as municipalities. Right. And so the 

constitution enshrine that they will now have elected officials. And 

so those elections are slated for early 2017 or some time in 2017. 

So right now we are working with our State Department colleagues, our Embassy, other donors in the field to decide how we 

as the international community can help support and help the 

Tunisians make this transition decentralization a success. And so 

23

that is going to be a big push over the next year for our assistance 

as well as for the Tunisians as they work on this. 

Another piece of that is to work with citizens, and civil society, 

and the private sector, on how to work with these new decentralized communities. 

Mr. WEBER. Let’s go back to what you are just now saying. You 

said you met with the stakeholders. You are talking about citizens, 

private sectors, NGOs? Can you name four or five different groups 

of stakeholders? 

Ms. LONGI. Sure. NGOs, other civil society groups, private businesses that work in these areas, investors from abroad, investors 

from within Tunisia. So there is a lot of groups. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. And then one final question, if I may, Madam 

Chairman. I am going to run over just a second here. According to 

my notes, there was a lot of opposition, I guess as they were making a political transition. It says such as trade—from trade unions. 

What kind of trade unions? I mean, do they have—or is that electrical? Is that plumbing? Is that agricultural? Do you know? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Yeah. Tunisia has a very potent trade union 

history, I guess I would say. The largest umbrella organization is 

something called the UGTT, and, in fact, the UGTT was one of the 

four members of the quartet that won the Nobel prize, the Nobel 

Peace prize, for their contribution to building the consensus that 

helped lead to this democratic revolution, this the post revolutionary period, the democratic governance. 

The labor unions are—have considerable weight in Tunisia, and 

they are part of this dialogue about how to reform the economy. 

Mr. WEBER. Name the kinds of labor. That is my——

Mr. DESROCHER. Sorry? 

Mr. WEBER. Name the kinds of labor, that is my specific question——

Mr. DESROCHER. I think it would cover all those areas, teachers, 

government employees. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. So they have robust in place of unions? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Yes. Yes, they do. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay, great. That is it. 

Thank you very much. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you, Mr. Weber. 

Ms. Frankel. 

Ms. FRANKEL. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. 

Mr. Weber, I just want you to know, I did a Google search while 

you were asking your question. There is 16 non-NATO allies. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. I also did a Google search. Texas has 268,000 

square miles, and Tunisia has 63,000 square. I am just saying. 

Ms. FRANKEL. One other thing I would say to Mr. Deutch. You 

know what, when you told the results of the poll, I almost had to 

laugh only because I was thinking they would be the same results 

here in the United States of America, which is sort of ironic? Isn’t 

it? 

But I just came back from Tunisia. I was there with Mr. Royce. 

It was a very enlightening experience for me. And we, of course, 

met with a very able Ambassador Rubinstein. We met with the 

President of Tunisia, their Prime Minister, Interior Minister, their 

24

speaker of the Parliament and some of their members and they actually have—Madam Chairman had quite a few women parliamentarians. 

We did go over to that museum, the Bardo, and we did a wreath 

ceremony. So just, you know, my impressions—I think my first—

the good thing about going to other countries is actually, I find, not 

just going to meet with the President and the Prime Minister, but 

just the ride through whatever city you are in and just to see the 

people. 

And you know what you see is just, you know, we saw hundreds 

and hundreds of people just trying to get about in their business, 

innocent people just trying to get about in their business. 

And, you know what the impressions that were given to us, the 

people we spoke to was—which I will just underscore things you 

have emphasized, and some of my colleagues have is how—how two 

really bad terrorist attacks have almost devastated their tourism 

economy, the attack at the hotel, the attack at Bardo Museum. The 

hotel we stayed at which was quite lovely, there was nobody there. 

And this is the most beautiful coast in Tunisia. 

We also got to meet with Ambassador Bodde, who was the virtual Ambassador from Libya. And we were able to have some good 

discussions on, really, the interrelationship between Tunisia and 

Libya and the fear of fighters coming back and forth and so forth. 

And a couple of questions I had, because one of the points that 

were made, and I want to ask you about the weapons. I think Mr. 

Weber raised an issue there, was the—I thought the concern was 

about weapons that had fallen into wrong hands since the—in 

Libya rather than—is that an issue there? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Well, I would say certainly, I mean, again, in 

Tunisia, control of weapons is not a tremendous concern of ours. Of 

course, like I say, we are continuously in touch with our Tunisian 

military counterparts as part of our security assistance program to 

talk about such things. But you are right, the weapons that were 

in the hands of the Qadhafi regime and their potential spread is 

something that we need to keep an eye on. 

Ms. FRANKEL. And then the other question I had, which I think 

would be important really for this hearing and for the public. If you 

could just explain why we should care about Tunisia and what is 

going on in Tunisia and Libya. What is the importance of that region to the United States to our security, the security, and to the 

economy of our allies? 

Mr. DESROCHER. And I invite you to chime in as well. 

I think Tunisia is important to us for a number of reasons. The 

Tunisians have already built and are still building, you know, a 

very impressive democratic system in the face of great challenges 

and, you know, in the face of a history that is, you know, frankly, 

was not very supportive of democracy. 

The Egyptians are trying to make that change. As we have seen 

through so much of the world making that transition to democracy 

is a very challenging thing. And I think it is in our interests to support that just as a general principle, and we do. And, of course, 

that aside, Tunisia is in a difficult region, most importantly, it has 

a very challenging neighbor in Libya and in the unstable situation 

in Libya, which, you know, the threat from that instability in Libya 

25

could potentially spread more broadly, which is certainly something 

we don’t want to see. And it is very much in our interests to help 

our Tunisian friends prepare and strengthen not only their democracy, but their economy, and their security, in a way that helps 

them be a bull worker against that instability. 

Ms. FRANKEL. Did you want to answer that? 

Ms. LONGI. No. 

Ms. FRANKEL. Okay. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield back. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you, Ms. Frankel. 

Dr. Yoho. 

Mr. YOHO. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good to seeing you. Thank 

you for being here. I find it interesting that there are fledging democracy that started with the Jasmine Revolution in 2011; the 

Arab Spring, the whole genesis of that. And then you see this fledging democracy building up, and things are going—what we would 

consider in the right way, and then we see the terrorist attacks 

that happened last summer and tourism is down 90 percent, the 

way I understand it and its kind of just floundering there and people aren’t really flocking to get back there. And they have so much 

prime real estate, you know, from an American perspective looking 

at that. It is a beautiful part of the country. 

If we look at that democracy and it is so important that we have 

a thriving democracy in there to show what liberty and freedoms 

can do. People that are striving to better their country like that. 

What have they done that is working, that we can learn from so 

that we can, you know, maybe have an influence or bolster that to 

effect, that they continue down that path? And what have they 

done that hasn’t worked so that we don’t make those mistakes 

when we are helping other countries that are fledging democracies 

that want to build from that? 

And then a third question is, how much influence has the Muslim Brotherhood have in that country? And then I have got a couple more. 

Mr. DESROCHER. I would point to a couple of factors. I mean, fundamentally, I think, what the Tunisians have done right is they 

have been guided by a sense of consensus and by a sense of, despite, perhaps, differing political or economic approaches, the sense 

of a need to move together and work together. 

For example, I would highlight, you know, I mentioned before the 

Nobel Peace prize that was given to a quartet of organizations for 

the role they played in bringing together Tunisians to support the 

revolution. And this was a disparate group of people. It included 

both the trade union that I mentioned but it also the employers, 

an organization whose acronym is UTICA, which is the employers’ 

union. And these are organizations that don’t necessarily see eye 

to eye on, say, economic matters but definitely saw eye to eye along 

with their compatriots and the quartet, and Tunisia’s political parties on the need to work together. And I think that we have seen 

that over the past few years as, you know, there is wide support—

as difficult as these economic reforms are, there is wide support 

across the Tunisian political leadership for these reforms despite 

their difficulty. 

And as basically to the role of political Islam, I would just note 

again, that we have talked a bit already about the role that 

26

Ennahda is playing, and it is—as Mr. Deutch said, it made an announcement yesterday that it is splitting its civil and religious activities away from its political activities. 

Mr. YOHO. Right. 

Mr. DESROCHER. But it remains a political party with an Islamic 

bent, but it is one that has proven itself to work within the political 

system——

Mr. YOHO. Let me get Ms. Longi to weigh in on this. And if you 

focus on what have they done wrong that we can learn from that? 

Ms. LONGI. What have they done wrong. 

Mr. YOHO. Is it like a security issue, you know? Do they have 

border security? Do they have to crack down harder other terrorist 

or terrorist threats? You know, if you are looking at that country 

to continue the growth of a democracy, if you—to look at it, what 

would you say they shouldn’t have done this and we should correct 

this—or they should correct it. I don’t want to help them correct 

their——

Ms. LONGI. Well, USAID doesn’t do the border security work. 

Mr. YOHO. Okay. 

Ms. LONGI. But I can say, and maybe this just gets to the right, 

but continues to be a challenge is the unemployment issue. Because the unemployment issue and combined with the security 

issues does create a real challenge for Tunisia to overcome a lot of 

this at once. 

And so the pace of it probably may seem slow, but if you look 

how this, you know, new vibrant democracy is working, they have 

passed some very important private—or business reform laws that, 

over time, if they keep that commitment will help create those private sector jobs which will balance out. 

Mr. YOHO. All right. Let me go back now to Mr. Desrocher. If you 

can tell us what they need to keep doing to bolster that democracy 

growing? 

You know, I know we need to worry about the terrorist threats 

and security and things like that. I mean, what would you recommend? 

Mr. DESROCHER. Well, I mean, I think Maria, you know, hit the 

point on the head. I think that the challenge that Tunisia faces is 

not so much that I can’t point to, say, this mistake or that mistake, 

something that a decision should be different. What the real challenge is that the reforms, economic in governance building, in law 

enforcement, in security that need to move forward are things 

that—take time to implement. 

And the economic situation there is challenging, the security situation there is challenging. And I know that Tunisians are moving 

as fast as they can, but it is really moving forward on those economic reforms to create jobs. Moving forward we are helping with 

reforms in the security sector so that they have civil police services 

that can enforce the law and enforce order while at the same time 

respecting civil rights and respecting the rule of law. Which is 

equally important. 

And I guess if I were to sum up the challenge is that, you know, 

these kinds of reforms take time, and the difficult situation in Tunisia, means that time is very precious. 

Mr. YOHO. Thank you. 

27

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you, Dr. Yoho. 

Mr. Boyle. 

Mr. BOYLE. Yes, thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member. 

I wanted to ask you about two different issues, although you will 

I think pretty easily see the connection where I am going in a second. 

The first is regarding the youth unemployment rate, which figures for 2015 show was estimated at 30 percent, remarkably high. 

I was wondering to the extent that we know what is Tunisia 

doing right now to tackle this real problem? 

Ms. LONGI. The passage of a lot of these foundational laws is one 

thing, because that is creating a better environment for the private 

sector to create jobs. Tunisia historically has had a very large public sector. And so the shift that they are making now is to encourage a stronger private sector where this job creation can actually 

take place, and so that is one thing. 

Another thing that we have been working—the partnerships that 

we have included partnerships with the Minister of Employment 

and the Ministry of Education, because a lot of the reason for the 

youth unemployment is the mismatch between the jobs that are 

there and that can be created and the education that people are 

getting. And so we have worked to create some career centers, career development centers, within the universities, within the vocational schools to try to make that match better. 

And so I think those are some of the challenges that exist and 

why the youth unemployment is so high. And we have seen great 

engagement and requests for assistance directly from ministers on 

this. 

Mr. BOYLE. Well, the second question I am going to ask seem to 

be a natural flow is according to the U.N., and if you disagree with 

this, please let me know, but according to the U.N., there are currently 4,000 Tunisians fighting in Syria and about 1,500 fighting 

in Libya. 

So I want to know what we believe the Tunisian Government is 

doing to champ down on this and extremism? And, of course, we 

see the connection between a country with a 30-percent youth unemployment rate and then also the problem of extremism in this 

region. 

Ms. LONGI. I can start. 

Mr. DESROCHER. Go ahead. 

Ms. LONGI. We have been looking at the drivers of violent extremism in Tunisia. USAID, State Department, the Department of 

Defense, we are trying to figure out—and the reasons the drivers 

they are very local. Sometimes it is by neighborhood and sometimes by region. So the drivers that we’ve identified in certain 

areas of Tunisia include the unemployment, the disaffected population, including youth, some of the people not happy with the pace 

of reforms, people not happy with how their government is including them. 

And so if you look at some of the programs, we are trying to target to address these, they include creating transparent and accountable local governments so people can—citizens can feel like 

they are a part of that. And so the employment is part of the soluVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:40 Aug 31, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 F:\WORK\_MENA\052516\20258 SHIRL
28

tion as well as the citizen engagement. That is one way to address 

the specific drivers. There is a security aspect to it too. 

Mr. DESROCHER. Yeah. I will just note, just add that I think that 

covers it very well but on the security aspect the Tunisians are taking measures to bolster the security along their border with Libya, 

which we are helping them with. There are ties to go back between 

Libya and Tunisia that go back quite some time in relationships 

and communications that go back quite some time and poses a special challenge, but the Tunisians are working hard, to in much of 

the way that that Maria discussed, in trying to find ways to identify those who might be tempted by these ideologies and detect people before they head for the airport, before they head across the 

border and to try to set up the systems that are in place at the borders to prevent these people from leaving. 

But it is a serious challenge and it is going to take a long-term 

solution. 

Mr. BOYLE. I will just say finally I get the impression, and correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as if you are both on the more 

optimistic realm of the spectrum if I were to characterize your comments. Would that be fair in terms of what the Tunisian Government is doing right now in the steps that they are taking? 

Ms. LONGI. I am optimistic. The engagement that we have, if you 

just look and the economics here, the engagement from minister 

level to working level on really truly being committed to creating 

jobs, and improving the business environment and, to getting youth 

engaged in a constructive way, it is positive. 

Mr. DESROCHER. I would definitely second that. I am optimistic 

because of the record that the Tunisians have built up over the 

past few years. They are pursuing the kinds of reforms that Maria 

described that they need to pursue. And these are not easy things 

to do but they are pursuing them despite the difficulty. 

Mr. BOYLE. Thank you. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much. 

Does any member wish to have another round? Thank you so 

much. 

Thank you for presenting a very realistic and hopeful outlook for 

our great partner Tunisia. Having been there also, I wish I would 

have been in Ms. Frankel’s CODEL, but we went on our own and 

it was sad to see beautiful hotels empty. 

We hope that folks come back to the beauty of Tunisia. Thank 

you so much. 

And with that, the subcommittee is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:37 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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