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93–912PDF 2015

OVERSIGHT OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND

AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

FUNDING PRIORITIES FOR THE

WESTERN HEMISPHERE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

MARCH 24, 2015

Serial No. 114–27

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

MATT SALMON, Arizona 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

PAUL COOK, California 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

CURT CLAWSON, Florida 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin 

DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan 

LEE M. ZELDIN, New York 

TOM EMMER, Minnesota 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

AMI BERA, California 

ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania

AMY PORTER, Chief of Staff THOMAS SHEEHY, Staff Director

JASON STEINBAUM, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

MATT SALMON, Arizona 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

TOM EMMER, Minnesota 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

The Honorable Roberta S. Jacobson, Assistant Secretary, Bureau for Western 

Hemisphere Affairs, U.S. Department of State ................................................. 4

Ms. Elizabeth Hogan, Acting Assistant Administrator, Bureau for Latin 

America and the Caribbean, U.S. Agency for International Development ..... 11

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

The Honorable Roberta S. Jacobson: Prepared statement ................................... 6

Ms. Elizabeth Hogan: Prepared statement ............................................................ 13

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 34

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 35

(1)

OVERSIGHT OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT 

AND AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL 

DEVELOPMENT FUNDING PRIORITIES 

FOR THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE 

TUESDAY, MARCH 24, 2015

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11 o’clock a.m., in 

room 2255 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ileana RosLehtinen (acting chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. The subcommittee will come to order. Chairman Duncan is attending to a family emergency and has asked me 

to chair today’s meeting in his place. We wish him and his family 

well. 

After recognizing myself and my good friend, Ranking Member 

Sires, for 5 minutes, each for our opening statements, I will then 

recognize other members who might seek recognition for 1 minute. 

We will then hear from our witnesses. 

Thank you ladies for being here. Without objection, the witnesses’ prepared statements will be made a part of the record. 

Members may have 5 days to insert statements and questions for 

the record subject to the length limitation in the rules. The chair 

now recognizes herself for 5 minutes. 

As we scrutinize the Fiscal Year 2016 budget proposals for the 

Western Hemisphere, we must fully analyze how we are advancing 

U.S. interests in the region. While the administration may condemn human rights violations, attacks on the press, and biased judicial systems, it still continues to placate to rogue regimes in the 

Hemisphere who face zero consequences. 

In Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega is running for a third term after 

pushing through constitutional changes to allow consecutive reelections in violation of the Nicaraguan constitution. Ortega is 

using the facade of the Canal Project to be able to fund money to 

his own pockets and possibly expropriate lands along the canal. In 

December, the Nicaraguan people who live along the canal protested the project and were met with repression and violence at the 

hands of the Ortega regime. Ecuador’s Rafael Correa and Bolivia’s 

Evo Morales are already in their third terms after manipulating 

the legislatures and rewriting the constitution and election laws in 

their countries for their own political agenda. At the same time, 

2

Correa and Morales have kicked out USAID in their countries 

causing USAID to be timid in closed societies throughout the Hemisphere and hurting its mission. 

Argentina’s Cristina Kirchner is currently being investigated for 

her possible involvement in covering up Iran’s role in the 1994 

AMIA bombing even as more questions arise surrounding the murder of Alberto Nisman. 

And in Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro has run the economy almost 

completely into the ground while quashing dissent, violating the 

human rights of the Venezuela people on a daily basis. Although 

Maduro and his thugs have finally been sanctioned by the administration, it only occurred because this committee and Congress 

strongly pushed for those punitive actions to be taken. 

The common theme in all of these countries, other than the 

greed, corruption, and thirst for power, is the manner in which 

these leaders have stayed in control and suppressed civil society. 

It is a playbook learned from Cuba, the same Cuba with which the 

President has reversed decades of U.S. policy and has given away 

almost all of our leverage in return for nothing. 

Dictators in the region have learned from and studied the methods of the Castro brothers. They have learned how to control the 

media, silence the opposition, and they have learned how to impose 

their will by instilling fear in people. They have learned the elections, even corrupt and illegitimate elections, are often enough to 

appease the international community and for critics to look the 

other way, knowing that once they are in power they can just 

change the rules of the game without consequences. 

They know that the Organization of American States despite its 

inter-American democratic charter will do nothing to hold them accountable. And they know that the Obama administration will continue trying to appease and engage, hoping that if they keep playing nice then maybe these tyrants will stop taking advantage of 

them. 

People in Latin America are crying out for the United States to 

finally stand up and say loudly and clearly that we know that leaders are manipulating the democratic process and are repressing 

fundamental human rights, and they want us to do everything in 

our power to hold those leaders accountable. 

As we examine the budget, I am concerned that it does not reflect those priorities. Democracy and governance programs in Latin 

America are always on the chopping block when funds are needed 

at State and USAID and this is unacceptable. 

In Central America I question whether or not our Embassies and 

host countries are prepared to handle such a large increase in 

funding from one fiscal year to another. In Cuba, I am concerned 

that the $20 million requested by the administration will be undermined by the misguided normalization talks, and the implementation of these democracy programs may be in jeopardy due to the 

demands from Havana. 

In Venezuela that is desperately and increasingly in need of assistance, I am concerned that the administration has not requested 

more resources to help civil society. In Haiti with elections around 

the corner, I do not understand why we cut INCLE funds in half 

3

when so much assistance is needed for the Haitian National Police 

as we gear up for the upcoming elections. 

We must ensure that we are funding priorities and addressing 

the root causes of problems throughout the Hemisphere on the governance and security fronts. Drug trafficking is a key piece of terrorist financing and we must have reliable partners with whom we 

can work to disrupt narcoterror networks and transnational criminal groups. 

The administration must work harder to hold bad actors responsible, whether that is through increased pressure at international 

organizations, through bilateral relations or additional sanctions 

and blocking of assets. And we should be stepping up our democracy and governance programs in response to regional challenges 

rather than withdrawing when the going gets tough. 

And with that, I am pleased to yield to my good friend from New 

Jersey, the ranking member Mr. Sires. 

Mr. SIRES. Thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this hearing, 

and thank you to our witnesses for being here to talk about the administration’s Fiscal Year 2016 requests for Latin America and the 

Caribbean. Today’s hearing occurs at a time of complex foreign policy challenges in a region that has evolved to become increasingly 

less reliant on the United States. 

While I do not believe that the U.S. is implicitly attempting to 

disengage from the Western Hemisphere, years of focus elsewhere 

have come at the expense of our policy toward the Americas. However, recent turmoil throughout the region, including growing instability in the Northern Triangle and the Venezuelan Government’s hostile and violent actions toward its own civilians, has 

prompted us to take a closer look at our own backyard. I am 

pleased that the administration’s Fiscal Year 2016 request of nearly $2 billion represents a 35-percent increase over the Fiscal Year 

2014 level. 

It is imperative that we strike a balance between citizen security 

initiatives and traditional development programs that can ensure 

peace and economic prosperity. Drug trafficking and organized 

crime that plagues the Northern Triangle of Central America is 

wreaking havoc in the region and poses security threats for the entire Hemisphere, especially the U.S. 

Disparity is abundant with nearly 30 percent of the region’s population living in poverty. Each year hundreds die along the southern border in their aspiration for a better life crossing into the U.S. 

while others remain threatened by cartel violence. With the exception of Cuba, democracy in the Hemisphere has progressed but is 

still threatened by organized crime and leaders that have abused 

executive powers. 

Every day in Venezuela, anti-government demonstrators continue to express their frustrations with the deteriorating economic, 

political, and security conditions in their country. Venezuela continues unabashedly to respond with a heavy hand, backtracking 

from any progress they had made as to strengthening its democratic institution. We must work together in a bipartisan fashion 

to ensure that increased budget requests are used efficiently with 

proper oversight and address root causes of violence and the dysfunction in this region. And I thank you. 

4

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much. 

And so now we would like to welcome our witnesses. We are so 

proud of our witnesses today. We welcome back a good friend of all 

of us in the Foreign Affairs Committee and especially this subcommittee, Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere 

Affairs Roberta Jacobson. Assistant Secretary Jacobson previously 

served as Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs, senior coordinator for the Citizen Security Initiatives in the Western Hemisphere, and Deputy Assistant Secretary 

for Canada, Mexico and NAFTA issues for the Bureau. Welcome, 

Roberta. 

We also want to welcome another good friend, Acting Assistant 

Administrator Elizabeth Hogan with USAID’s Latin America and 

Caribbean Bureau. Ms. Hogan is also serving as Senior Deputy Assistant Administrator for the region and has previously served as 

director of the Haiti Task Team. Welcome back. 

So Ms. Jacobson, we will begin with you. Madam Ambassador. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ROBERTA S. JACOBSON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU FOR WESTERN HEMISPHERE 

AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you 

very much for this opportunity to testify on the Fiscal Year 2016 

request for U.S. assistance to the Western Hemisphere. Madam 

Chair, I know that you and members of this subcommittee are as 

pleased as I am that by almost every available metric the United 

States remains an influential actor and vital partner in the region 

because we all recognize the importance of this Hemisphere to our 

national interest. 

The Obama administration’s policy aims to forge equal partnerships with the countries of Latin America and the Caribbean that 

build on the promising destiny of this Hemisphere based first and 

foremost on shared values. 

I would like to submit my written testimony for the record and 

not take up much of your time to get to your questions. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Without objection. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Our top priorities in the region, jobs and 

prosperity, education and innovation, energy cooperation, and promoting democratic values have a direct impact on the daily lives 

of Americans. We are focused on improving citizen security with 

more comprehensive policies that better the lives of our citizens 

with lessons learned at home and in Latin America and the Caribbean, whether it is in Silicon Valley on innovation or Colombia on 

citizen security. Thus, the administration’s 2016 foreign assistance 

request for the Western Hemisphere is a 34.7-percent increase from 

2014. 

We realize that in areas of the Americas there were needed additional sustained attention if they were to achieve some of the remarkable growth and social progress we have seen elsewhere. Just 

over half the total request supports the U.S. strategy for engagement in Central America. Last summer’s spike in migration was a 

clear signal that serious and longstanding challenges in Central 

America remain and may be worsening. To change this trend we 

must address the underlying factors driving migration or be preVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:29 May 28, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_WH\032415\93912 SHIRL
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pared for this tragedy to repeat itself ad infinitum with ultimately 

higher impact and cost to the United States. 

Over the past years of implementing our Central America Regional Security Initiative, we have learned a great deal about what 

works and what doesn’t work on security in Central America, and 

our $1 billion assistance request for Central America builds on all 

of that knowledge. It represents a significant increase from previous years, but what we know for certain is that the cost of investing now in Central America’s security and prosperity pales in comparison to the cost of addressing migration challenges here at 

home. 

Beyond Central America it would be shortsighted even in tough 

budget times not to maintain investments in priority programs that 

are working. For Mexico, the request includes $119 million to continue support for the Merida Initiative. Mexico was a critical partner last summer in the effort to stem the flow of migration to the 

United States and nearly every week it captures important drug 

traffickers, but serious security challenges have persisted and 

therefore our request advances Mexico’s efforts to strengthen the 

rule of law, combat corruption and protect human rights. 

In Colombia, all eyes are on whether the peace process can bring 

an end to Latin America’s longest running conflict but we can’t 

take our eye off the ball, and so our request includes $288.7 million 

to support Colombia’s efforts to secure the rule of law and support 

sustainable development. 

We must continue our efforts in the Caribbean or our third border. Our request includes $241.6 million for Haiti and $531⁄2 million for the Caribbean Basin Initiative to reduce rates of crime and 

violence which threaten both the U.S. and Caribbean security. 

Peru is now the world’s largest producer of cocaine, and the government will need our help to change that trajectory. Last year I 

visited coca fields being eradicated and alternative development 

projects where a decade ago when I served in Peru no American 

could venture due to the danger of leftist violence. And I know that 

we have an unusual opportunity of government political will, a 

model proven to work and local populations eager for our help. 

This request maintains important support for freedom of the 

press, human rights and democracy in the Hemisphere, including 

in those states in which we have seen the greatest backsliding. 

U.S. assistance that supports our policy makes a direct difference 

in the lives of citizens throughout the Hemisphere and benefits the 

national interests of the United States. And I look forward to your 

questions, thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ambassador Jacobson follows:]

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Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF MS. ELIZABETH HOGAN, ACTING ASSISTANT 

ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR LATIN AMERICA AND THE 

CARIBBEAN, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT 

Ms. HOGAN. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman, Ranking 

Member Sires, and Congresswoman Kelly. Thank you for the invitation to testify before you today and thank you for the committee’s 

continuing support for USAID’s work in Latin America and the 

Caribbean. 

As Acting Administrator Lenhardt testified before you last week, 

USAID’s mission across the globe is to partner to end extreme poverty and promote resilient democratic societies. USAID assistance 

has helped many countries of the region achieve these goals. However, despite major progress in some countries, social development 

and economic growth have been stymied by the dramatic rise in 

crime and violence in the Northern Triangle countries of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. This increase in violent crime is 

rooted in deep-seated social and economic inequality. It has been 

fueled by increases in gang violence and transnational crime. 

In order to help Central American governments reverse these 

trends, the U.S. Government has developed an interagency strategy 

for the region that advances three interrelated objectives—prosperity, security and governance. The President’s $1 billion request 

reflects our shared belief that the United States and Central America need a deeper partnership to tackle insecurity, endemic poverty, 

and weak governance that impacts our own national security. 

First, we must increase support for broad based economic 

growth. This support includes improving the enabling environment 

for businesses to invest and grow, advancing trade and regional integration, increasing financing for small and medium enterprises, 

and connecting small scale farmers to the markets. It also includes 

a focus on employment programs for disadvantaged youth. Last 

year I heard from youth in the region about how USAID programs 

are increasing their security, expanding employment opportunities, 

and giving them an alternative to gang life or illegal migration. 

But beyond these anecdotal testimonies we know that our citizen 

security programs are working. An independent evaluation concluded that fewer robberies, murders, and extortions are reported 

in the neighborhoods where USAID is working compared to the 

control group of similar communities where we are not. We now 

need to help governments and the private sector take these programs to scale in order to achieve longstanding national impact 

and national ownership. 

At the national level we will provide assistance to strengthen the 

effectiveness, transparency, and accountability of the institutions 

that are charged with growing the economy, generating revenue, 

creating jobs, delivering basic services, ensuring justice and public 

safety, and protecting human rights. While the challenges ahead 

are great, we believe the time is right as governments of the Northern Triangle commit themselves to specific time bound policy 

changes that are needed to justify this increased investment. 

12

Democracy, human rights, and good governance continues to be 

a high priority for USAID particularly in those countries where 

basic civil rights are repressed. Our programs in these closed political spaces support and empower civil society and media organizations to build their networks, advocate for citizen-led reforms, and 

push for greater government transparency, accountability, and effectiveness. 

Another continued priority is our work to help the Haitian people 

build a more prosperous and secure future. We can report that in 

spite of a very difficult political environment, meaningful progress 

in Haiti is indeed occurring especially in the areas of health, agriculture, and small business development. For example, 70,000 

farmers have increased yields and incomes as a result of USAID 

assistance. 

Finally, we will continue to prioritize, mitigating the economic 

and social challenges that derive from the harmful effects of climate change. Droughts in Central America and extreme weather 

events in the Caribbean are linked to rising levels of food insecurity and deeper levels of poverty due to the loss of crops, infrastructure, and income. By adapting and mitigating the negative impacts 

of climate change, communities will become more resilient and better able to protect their investment. 

There is also a very positive trend in the region as the private 

sector is starting to see that development is good for business. In 

the past 2 years, USAID has leveraged over $350 million in private 

sector resources to complement our investments in development. 

Partnerships with U.S. companies like Chevron, Hanes, Cisco, 

Intel, and Microsoft all play a vital role in our citizen security work 

providing education, training, and employment opportunities for atrisk youth. 

Increased evidence of political will coupled with proven strategies 

for success make a compelling case for increased investment that 

will improve the security and prosperity of the region and at home. 

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Hogan follows:]

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Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much. Thank you to both of 

our witnesses for being here and for your testimony and your written remarks. 

Before I begin my question, on behalf of Chairman Duncan I 

would like to state that the State Department and U.S. Agency for 

International Development, USAID, did not provide this committee, 

for the Fiscal Year 2015, country and regional funding estimates 

for Western Hemisphere countries nor updates on allocated funds 

or disbursed funds, even though the committee staff requested multiple times that your agencies provide this information. If you could 

please make a note of that. 

The subcommittee is also requesting the remaining funds in the 

pipeline for major programs such as the Mexico Merida Initiative, 

the Central America Regional Security Initiative, and the Caribbean Basin Security Initiative. We would like to reiterate publicly 

those requests for this information, if you could get it to the subcommittee promptly. 

I would also like to add that at last week’s full committee hearing I asked USAID to provide the committee with a breakdown of 

how much foreign aid in the Western Hemisphere is going directly, 

specifically, toward democracy and governance program. So thank 

you, both of you ladies, for heeding those requests. 

I have some questions on Cuba, on Venezuela, and closed societies. Assistant Secretary Jacobson, as you know, one of the three 

laws with which the Secretary of State designates a state sponsor 

of terrorism is the Export Administration Act. It defines a state 

sponsor of terrorism as one which has ‘‘repeatedly provided support 

for acts of international terrorism’’ to include ‘‘the recurring use of 

any part of the territory of the country as a sanctuary for terrorists 

or terrorist organizations.’’

So I ask you, does the Cuban regime provide a sanctuary for the 

FARC and ETA? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Thank you, Madam Chair. We certainly 

have said that they have in the past, and we are undertaking the 

review now as to whether that has continued. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. What would lead you to believe that it has 

not continued? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, I think one of the things that we 

would be looking at is what the situation is right now, and certainly we would be consulting as well as looking at our own information with the governments from which those groups come, the 

Governments of Colombia and of Spain from which those organizations come, and as well as looking at our own information. But we 

have to look at all of the information that we can gather on whether or not sanctuary is provided to terrorist organizations. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Do we consider FARC to be a terrorist organization? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. I believe they remain on the terrorist 

list, but as you know they are also involved in peace talks with the 

Colombian Government. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And do we consider ETA to be a terrorism 

organization? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. I honestly haven’t checked whether they 

are still on the terrorist list. They may well be. They also have 

19

given up military operations and there have been some dialogues 

with the Cuban Government by the Spanish Government. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And has Spain requested some of those individuals who have been involved in activities against their government to be sent back to Spain to stand trial? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. It is my understanding that there have 

been some requests for extradition. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And probably that request is because Spain 

considers them to be terrorists. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. There are judicial actions against some 

members of that——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Right. I would say that the Cuban regime 

provides sanctuary for FARC and ETA, and I don’t know how else 

that could be classified. But we look forward to getting that review 

from you. 

Is the Cuban regime providing safe haven and granting political 

asylum to U.S. fugitives like JoAnne Chesimard who is on the Most 

Wanted Terrorist list of the United States? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, it is my understanding that JoAnne Chesimard has been in Cuba for many years, and they certainly have provided her—she has been living there for a long time. 

I don’t know exactly what her status is there but——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. But the U.S. does consider her, she is placed 

on the Most Wanted Terrorist list. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. She is on the FBI’s Most Wanted list. I 

am sorry, but you will have to ask the FBI or the Justice Department whether that is per classification there. She is wanted for 

homicide, I know, certainly. I am certainly familiar with the case 

and we have raised it with the Cubans every time we see them. 

We will continue to——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And was the Cuban regime caught red-handed sending weapons to North Korea in a North Korea frigate in violation of U.N. international sanctions? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Certainly with that incident we certainly 

have, that incident did occur with a North Korean freighter that 

was carrying weapons. It was carrying weapons from, and arms 

and defense materials from Cuba. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. In violation of international, U.N. international——

Ambassador JACOBSON. U.N. Sanctions Committee did say that 

that was a violation of the sanctions regime and sanctioned the 

company and the ship. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. So it is hard to not conclude, because the definition in our law as a state sponsor of terrorism, one which has 

repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism to 

include the recurring use of any part of the territory of the country 

as a sanctuary for terrorists or terrorist organizations, and it seems 

like those are very good examples of how Cuba does fall into that 

category. Where are you in your analysis of Cuba’s inclusion on the 

state sponsor of terrorism list? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, I think at this time all I can say 

is that we are continuing that review. We expect to complete that 

in the next couple of months. The President, as you know, asked 

the Secretary to do that review and complete it within 6 months 

20

of when the President made his announcement in December, and 

so we are undertaking that with very due diligence and thoroughness. As you know and you have cited, the law is fairly specific. 

And so we are in the middle of that review. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. So because the law is very specific, I would 

think that the administration plans to sidestep these key parts of 

the law in order to lift Cuba from the list. In other words, we are 

going to say FARC is not a terrorist organization; JoAnne 

Chesimard, Most Wanted Terrorist list, that is the list she is on; 

Cuba violated international sanctions, so we are going to re-look at 

those and classify them in a different way in order to justify——

Ambassador JACOBSON. We certainly plan to complete the review, and whatever decision is made it will fully comply with the 

law. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Not the law as it is written, just as the way 

that we are now looking at those very groups that before were terrorists and now are part of a peace deal, so no longer terrorists, 

for example, in the case of the FARC. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, I don’t know that I would qualify 

them as terrorists or not terrorists. They are still on the foreign 

terrorist organization list, but they are also engaged in a peace 

process. So I think that that has to be taken into consideration in 

a consultation, obviously with the Colombian Government. But as 

I say, the review is undertaken and will be completed, and any report that is done pro or con in terms of the list will be done in compliance with the law. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much. I have other questions, 

but I want to turn to Mr. Sires and then we will do a second round. 

Mr. Sires is recognized. 

Mr. SIRES. Thank you, Madam Chair. Since I have been in Congress I have been an advocate for the Western Hemisphere. I have 

felt that we have kind of ignored this Hemisphere over the years. 

And as I sit here and I hear how we are developing democratic 

principles in these countries and the progress we are making, and 

all these things that I hear that are great coming from both of you, 

I look, in my perspective I look at Venezuela. I mean you can’t call 

that a democracy anymore. 

Ms. HOGAN. No. 

Mr. SIRES. I look what is happening in Ecuador. He wants to 

run. I look at what is happening in Nicaragua. It is a mess. Ortega 

was a big defender of the farmers and now he is beating the farmers up because he wants to take their land away from them. I look 

at what is going on in Brazil, demonstrations everywhere. 

So I guess my question to you is where is all the positive stuff 

that you are talking about? I mean all these leaders, they just want 

to perpetuate themselves and they take over the courts; they put 

their own people in. I mean it is like a textbook effort, you go from 

one country to the other. And the one I have to give credit to is 

Uribe. I mean he ran his two terms, he did his job well, and then 

he did not insist on running a third term. He turned it over democratically. So I give Colombia a great deal of credit. I mean they 

are an example for the rest of the countries in South America, Central America. But the rest, it is a mess. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Can I just make——

21

Mr. SIRES. Yes, absolutely. You can——

Ambassador JACOBSON. I am sorry. I will be quick. But I would 

argue even the last example you used, Congressman. And I really 

do want to thank you and all the members of this committee and 

the chairwoman for the support you have given to the region and 

the attention you have given it. 

But in Brazil they are going through enormously difficult times 

and the Petrobras scandal has been hugely difficult, let us just say. 

But the protests——

Mr. SIRES. It is huge. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. And huge. But the protests you have 

seen in many ways are a reaffirmation of democracy. And the response in terms of anti-corruption legislation are a response to the 

voices of people in the streets. The Pacific Alliance and the countries of Mexico, Peru, Colombia and Chile moving forward on free 

trade, opening their economies even further engaging with the rest 

of the world, I think, is an extremely positive story. 

So I think there are still very positive stories in the Hemisphere, 

quite a few of them both on the political side and on the economic 

side, even while many of the examples that you listed you are absolutely right on. 

Mr. SIRES. And I look at what is happening between Haiti and 

the Dominican Republic. This issue of whether you are Dominican 

or not and you go back, to me that is—they were in my office the 

other day trying to explain to me that this is necessary because of 

what is happening between the borders. I worry. And I have to say, 

and I don’t want to get away from Nicaragua, but I had a group 

of civil groups in my office just this past week. They are telling me 

that things are getting so bad in Nicaragua they are concerned 

about the election that is coming up in 3 years. They are telling 

me that people are taking up to arms on the hills already. Have 

you any confirmation of that? They are telling me that some groups 

are already in the jungles. Is that accurate? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. I have not heard that. But I can tell you 

that the concerns of citizens over the process that has been undertaken whether it is for the canal and land concerns, environmental 

concerns as well as concerns on elections at the local and national 

level are very, very serious. And these are concerns that we are 

watching as well as concerns of neighbors about Nicaruaga. 

Mr. SIRES. And obviously my last question I will bring you back 

to Cuba. We have $20 million for more democracy in Cuba. How 

much pressure are you getting to stop those programs in Cuba in 

these negotiations that you are going through? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, I don’t think it is any surprise that 

Cuba doesn’t like those programs, so I wouldn’t say we are under 

enormous pressure. 

Mr. SIRES. Are we making concessions on those programs? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. We have said from the beginning that 

those programs are not, we are not going to be ending those programs, so we are moving ahead. 

Mr. SIRES. All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

Congresswoman Kelly, my good friend from Illinois. 

22

Ms. KELLY OF ILLINOIS. Thank you. I had a couple of questions. 

You talked about, even though I know there is a lot of work to do, 

but you talked about where you have been successful as far as 

stopping or slowing down gang violence, and economic growth and 

those kind of things. I was just curious. Do you have a certain playbook that you follow or guidelines and things like that? 

And the reason I ask that question is because of some parts of 

the Chicago-land area that I cover and some of the very problems 

you are talking about we have every day in Chicago. And I believe 

it was today, or maybe yesterday, I read eight shot, four dead. You 

know the story, I am sure. So I was just interested in seeing your 

playbook and what you do, because we need some of that. I am not 

saying stop it there, but we need it in some parts of where I cover 

also. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. I think that in the end there are lessons 

learned that go both ways. And I am going to turn this over to 

Beth who has the experience of the AID programs, but from my experience working both on the INL programs, the narcotics and law 

enforcement programs, and with AID, there are a couple of things 

that we know work quite well. 

Quite honestly, the biggest overall focus has to be getting into 

the communities, not staying in police headquarters and in the cities and the central government. We know that model police precincts work. When we go into the communities putting in 24-hour 

courts and police precincts in the communities and getting their 

buy-in, we know that crime rates have gone down in those places. 

We know that borrowing solutions from U.S. cities where things 

have worked—anti-gang programs in L.A., some in areas of Chicago, in Boston, have worked. These are some of the same gangs 

and some of the same solutions. But we also know that buy-in from 

the communities on community centers and training for young people and anti-gang programs that focus on women can work because 

these are often female-headed households. So some of those models 

that have worked on a small level have to be scaled up, and that 

is where we are focusing. 

Ms. KELLY OF ILLINOIS. Okay. 

Ms. HOGAN. Yes, I would like to add to that. In terms of a playbook we really do think we have a model that can be taken to 

scale, and that model as Roberta just suggested was developed in 

concert with those cities whereby we have seen gang violence actually go down. In fact we are using the tools from the L.A. government, state government, in terms of focusing in on who are the 

young people in these communities that are most at risk for joining 

gangs. Rather than having sort of a broad based plan, we are trying to single and narrow in on those who don’t have mentors, don’t 

have parents at home, are idle, are out of school. I mean there is 

a whole series of criteria that helps us get at the ones that are the 

most vulnerable. 

Secondly, we have also learned that a place based strategy is the 

most effective way to go, and by that I mean we go in along with 

INL, together, and we look at a community, not just at the community level but really block by block in terms of understanding 

where is the most serious crime happening and then how do we engage the community in developing crime reduction strategies? How 

23

do we engage the religious community, the business community, 

municipal governance community, and parents? And they have 

come up with these security plans for their communities that create safe spaces. Simple things like lighting and painting. A community center can really help quite a bit. 

And so that is why we have seen that when we apply these tools 

to these communities and compare it against very similar communities where we are not working we see great reductions in the 

crime levels in those communities. So this is a model that works 

and we are very eager to take it to scale. 

Ms. KELLY OF ILLINOIS. And I support you greatly. 

I just wanted to ask a question about Haiti as it pertains to 

health efforts, health, literacy and educating the most vulnerable 

populations in Haiti on health resources and wellness options. 

What do you feel are the greatest barriers you are seeing on the 

health front? 

Ms. HOGAN. Actually we are seeing great progress in the health 

sector in Haiti and we are very encouraged by it. Every 5 years 

they conduct a demographic health survey, and we have seen just 

last year the latest survey has revealed that malnutrition for children under five is going down. Infant mortality is going down. Vaccination rates are going up. We have the advantage of a very 

strong Minister of Health in Haiti. 

And so along with the World Bank, we are trying to help them 

develop their systems in such a way that we can get out of the direct service delivery role that we have been in in Haiti, forever, 

and channel our resources through that Ministry. But we are going 

to do it very carefully, very cautiously, but we think that that is 

the way that we can create the kind of sustainability that Haitian 

institutions need. And I say we are starting in the Health Ministry 

because that is where we see the greatest potential. 

Ms. KELLY OF ILLINOIS. Are there any investments we should 

specifically be making? Is there any——

Ms. HOGAN. Yes, in fact we run, we pay for 168 clinics across the 

country and through those clinics we reach up to 50 percent of the 

population. That is what we want to turn over. Also we are working in the Ministry to improve their health information systems, 

their procurement systems, and their hiring systems so that they 

can become a modern, transparent, and accountable Ministry. And 

as I say, we are blessed in all of the changes that have happened 

in Haiti with the cabinet membership changing almost on a 6-

month basis, we have had the same Minister of Health over the 

last 5 years and we are very, very happy about that. 

Ms. KELLY OF ILLINOIS. Thank you. And thank you, Madam 

Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much, Ms. Kelly. 

And I am always proud to say my good friend Mr. Castro. 

Mr. CASTRO. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for you 

all’s testimony today. Between 2011 and 2014, foreign aid, U.S. foreign aid to Latin America and the Western Hemisphere went down 

by $400 million. The President has proposed increasing aid to Central America this year by $1.14 billion. And as I mentioned last 

year, I think that drop in $400 million, well, I don’t blame the adVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:29 May 28, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00027 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_WH\032415\93912 SHIRL
24

ministration. I think it is also Congress, but we were essentially 

robbing Peter to pay Paul. 

And so let me ask you a question I have asked before about Central America. I want to ask about Mexico. What are we doing to 

help Mexico combat all of the tragedies that are going on there 

now? There is a caravan going through the United States right now 

for the 43 students who were murdered in a small town there, and 

over the last several years hundreds of Americans have gone into 

Mexico and have been killed. My colleague Filemon Vela from 

Brownsville who represents Texas/Mexico border region has been 

on a crusade to get the United States Government to take a stronger part in doing something about this. So please. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Thank you very much, Congressman. 

And I think this is an incredibly important subject having worked 

on the Merida Initiative for a number of years now. I think we and 

the Mexican Government really thought in some ways that our engagement, our initiative with them would be shorter lived than it 

was; that some of the problems we needed to tackle would be overcome more quickly. But it is clear that the problems they are tackling are very deep and embedded. And the 43 students in Iguala, 

I think, and the tragedy of their disappearance are a tragedy in 

and of themselves, but they are also a broader tragedy and that is 

why they had such resonance in Mexico for a system that still has 

not delivered justice to people. 

So we see, I think, a response by the Mexican Government in 

terms of changes in whether it is the attorney general, changes in 

moving forward more aggressively on the transformation of the judicial system, which we are deeply involved in working with them 

on from an inquisitorial system to an oral adversarial system 

which is much more transparent, much quicker, fewer cases go to 

trial and that is very important because not everything must go to 

trial in terms of minor offenses, and fewer people being held in pretrial detention. As my colleague knows, in the states where USAID 

has worked on this kind of a transformation, Chihuahua and 

Nuevo Leon, the conviction rates have gone up and the pretrial detention rates have gone down. 

So those are the kinds of things we need to continue to do, but 

it is a very, very difficult problem. And I think it is important that 

we remain engaged, and that is what the request level does. It focuses on moving on the Federal efforts that we have made to state 

levels which are critical. As you know, Mexico is a Federal system 

as we are, and while there may be 40,000 or so Federal police, 

there are over 400,000 state and local police in Mexico. And unless 

we work with the Mexicans on those levels as well, we can’t really 

get at some of the problems going on there. And we feel that the 

Mexican Government is really ready for us to help in that level too. 

Mr. CASTRO. What does the budget do with respect to Mexico? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. $119 million for this year is on the 

Merida Initiative alone. 

Mr. CASTRO. Is that an increase or a decrease from the last 

few——

Ambassador JACOBSON. I believe it is a decrease this year. But 

we also know that Mexico is coming in over 10 times. It is usually 

about 13 times the amount that we put into the security area. So 

25

we believe that it will be sufficient to do the things we want to do, 

remembering also that we don’t do sort of big ticket equipment 

items with Mexico. It is training and its personnel and things of 

that nature which we get a fair amount of bang for our buck in 

those funds. 

Mr. CASTRO. Sure. Thank you. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much. We will go to a second 

round of questions for anyone who has them. 

Assistant Secretary Jacobson, although I have questions on Venezuela and closed society I wanted to ask you about something that 

just happened. The Treasury Department, their Office of Foreign 

Assets Control, OFAC, has just inexplicably removed approximately 60 Cuba related individuals and entities from its Specially 

Designated Nationals List. Why were these individuals and entities 

removed from that list? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. In the first instance I would really have 

to direct the question to the Treasury Department since I am not 

sure exactly what you are referring to. I know that over periods of 

time Treasury does review its Specially Designated Nationals List 

for people who may have been deceased or otherwise no longer be 

active or eligible for that. They may have left Cuba, they may be 

deceased. There may be reasons that people fall off that list, but 

I just don’t know in this case. I am sorry. We will have to check 

with Treasury. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Yes. This says Agencia de Viajes Guama Bal 

Harbour Shopping Center that is in Miami-Dade County, my area; 

another tour company from Bal Harbour; another tour company 

Bal Harbour; Kol, K–O–L, Investments Inc., Miami, Florida; Travel 

Services, Inc., Hialeah, Florida, in my congressional district. 

And what I get the feeling is that as in the first round of questions that I had posed to you that we have ordered this review of 

whether Cuba should be included or not, keep, and the state sponsor of terrorism, and it is a foregone conclusion that review is 

whether—I know we are still going through it. The conclusion is let 

us remove Cuba from the list and how do we go about it? 

Well, gosh darn it, we have all these laws, so what we do is we 

no longer consider FARC to be a terrorist organization. We no 

longer consider JoAnne Chesimard a wanted terrorist no matter 

what the FBI says. We have to change all of these classifications 

because we get the verdict first and then the trial. The verdict is 

Cuba is off the state sponsor of terrorism list so how do we gain 

this up, how do we gain this up to make it happen? 

Here is just yet another example of how we do it. Companies 

that were in the Specially Designated Nationals List, 60 of them, 

just got wiped out. No explanation needed because know whoever 

is in front of us will say, ask the other guys. And then when we 

get that guy they will say, I don’t know, ask someone else. 

But the dominoes are lined up and you just have to flick one and 

you will see it happening. We already know what the verdict is. It 

is just a matter of when will we announce it. Do you suspect that 

the announcement will be made when we sing Kumbaya in the 

April summit in Panama? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. I don’t know when any decision on the 

state sponsor of terrorism list will be made because obviously that 

26

is a decision, a recommendation that will go from the Secretary of 

State to the President. So I don’t know exactly when that will be 

made. We are now about 2 weeks from the Summit of the Americas, so I am not sure exactly when that will be done and whether 

we are not conducting the review necessarily with that calendar 

sort of affecting us. Obviously we are taking the time we need to 

get it done properly. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Sure. The problem is you don’t have a partner in that because Cuba is making it exceedingly difficult for you 

to label them with the good housekeeping seal of approval. 

There was just another shipment, and we talked about the North 

Korea shipment. But there was another one as you know that was, 

the last one was under sugar, this one was cereal, and you name 

it and it was in that shipment. But nothing ever seems to matter. 

It doesn’t matter what Cuba does, they will get that stamp. 

But anyway moving on to Venezuela, many of us were relieved 

that finally the administration sanctioned eight Venezuelan officials for human rights violations based on the law that we passed, 

and we thank Senators Rubio and Menendez for their work, and 

Mr. Cruz, on the Senate side. However, given the fact that the 

Obama administration has given a lifeline to the Castro regime, 

should we prepare for the administration to take the same approach and provide a lifeline to Maduro? His economy is spiraling 

downward. 

I don’t know what Cuba merited, I don’t know how it merited to 

get this olive branch other than free a totally innocent man who 

they held illegally for 5 years. So should we prepare that maybe 

the administration will be easing off on Maduro? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, I think, Madam Chair, I would say 

that from some of the commentary I have seen around the Hemisphere, some people think we just gave Maduro a lifeline, since the 

reaction to the sanctions has been fairly negative, and allowed him 

unfortunately to proliferate his narrative that this is about the 

U.S. and Venezuela. And it is not. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And before we sanctioned it what was his 

narrative? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, it has always been that. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Correct. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. You are exactly right. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Okay, so it doesn’t matter what we do. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. And he uses any excuse. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Right. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Right. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. So then we should not do the right thing because it will——

Ambassador JACOBSON. No, no. Absolutely. And that is our argument with many of our allies and colleagues around the Hemisphere that we in fact are not the problem. The problem is Venezuelans need to talk to Venezuelans. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. I am banned from going to Nicaragua. What 

did I do to Nicaragua? Nothing. We found the pull against the Venezuelan human rights violators. Bad guys don’t need an excuse, so 

we should continue to do the right thing. 

27

Ambassador JACOBSON. So I don’t think at this point—what we 

have always said is that we are prepared to have a dialogue with 

Venezuela. We obviously continue to have diplomatic relations with 

them, but we also have made very clear that there was a dialogue 

with the opposition last year, there were some agreements that 

were reached on things the government needed to do and the government didn’t complete its side of the bargain. Instead, Leopoldo 

Lopez is still in jail, Antonio Ledezma has now been put in jail, 

elections are coming up. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Just like in Cuba, dissidents are still in jail, 

but in Cuba it is a different approach. I just want to make sure 

that we shouldn’t prepare for any changes in U.S. policy. Cuba did 

not change. U.S. has changed. But Cuba still continues to repress 

its citizens and jail opposition leaders, wouldn’t you say? Catch and 

release. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Certainly there has been in continued 

short term detentions, yes. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Okay. 

And Ms. Hogan, as the situation further deteriorates in Venezuela the people there need our help more than ever, but the administration’s request for Venezuela for next year and years past 

has remained virtually the same. How can we justify it, sort of a 

flatline request for democracy and governance in Venezuela as the 

situation deteriorates yet the request remains the same? 

Ms. HOGAN. Right. Well, of course as you know what we are requesting is resources to support civil society organizations. There 

is a limited number of those organizations, but we will continue to 

provide the kind of support that allows them to document human 

rights abuses, to report them, to press for protection of civil society 

leaders. 

We are also working to break the information blockade, if you 

will, and help these organizations get access to independent media 

and also to publicize what is happening in Venezuela, and then finally to press for citizen-led reforms and strengthening their ability 

to do that. We think that the amount of resources that we have 

available is about right to continue to support their efforts, and 

there are very brave people that are doing very important work 

under very difficult circumstances. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Indeed, thank you. And thank you to the 

committee members for their indulgence. And just one more area. 

On closed societies, USAID has been kicked out of closed societies 

in Latin America, Bolivia, and Ecuador, for example, and has now 

become so concerned that it will be expelled from a country that 

it has become timid. Do you worry about that? 

I met with Nicaraguan civil society activists that Mr. Sires referred to, last week, and they told us that USAID is so worried 

about being kicked out of Nicaragua that programs have been curtailed and some are being used to actually support the Sandinista 

regime according to them. So what is the point of this Latin America and Caribbean Bureau at USAID if we do not want to fulfill the 

democracy and governance obligation? Is USAID getting too timid 

to perform its duties? Should we channel that money to NED or 

DRL, groups that are not afraid of working in closed societies? 

28

Ms. HOGAN. Thank you for that question. In fact we are increasing our request for democracy and governance resources in Nicaragua as well as in Central America. But in Ecuador, even though 

we no longer have a presence in Ecuador, we have asked for and 

received resources so that we can continue to support civil society 

organizations. And we are also supporting municipal level leadership and the engagement between municipal leaders and the civil 

society actors who are now learning and practicing democratic principles at the local level. 

So I would say quite the contrary. We stand with civil society in 

closing political spaces. We will continue to do so. And our resource 

request as you will see is for more resources to do that kind of 

thing. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much. Thank you to both, and 

thanks to the members for their time. Mr. Sires is recognized. 

Mr. SIRES. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I have to agree with my colleague. I think this is a foregone conclusion that Cuba is going to be removed from the terrorist list, 

otherwise I don’t see how you are going to be able to negotiate anything. Because they haven’t changed. They haven’t stopped doing 

anything. I mean the ship that they just caught off Cartagena, Colombia, it is just amazing to me that they just continue doing the 

same thing without any consequences. 

And I am concerned also, the Caribbean Basin Securities Initiative was cut, right, on this budget? That was part of it. The Merida 

Initiative was cut. The Colombia Strategic Development Initiative 

was cut. I am concerned. Are they still insisting on you giving up 

Guantanamo with all the cuts that we are making over here? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. We haven’t discussed Guantanamo. 

Mr. SIRES. We haven’t. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. No. 

Mr. SIRES. Are we discussing any monetary assistance to Cuba, 

currently? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. No. 

Mr. SIRES. To the Cuban Government in terms of your negotiations with Cuba? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. No. 

Mr. SIRES. Because I know they wanted money because they said 

the embargo hurt them. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, no. I mean what I should say is obviously at some point in the future we will have to have a conversation about claims, on claims that have been filed against the 

Cuban Government, judgments on terrorism. They have said that 

when we sit down to talk about claims they are probably going to 

raise their lawsuits that they have tried to pursue for damages visa`-vis the embargo. So I expect they will raise those things, but we 

haven’t had those conversations yet. We haven’t had them about 

claims yet, set up a process for that nor had them raise anything 

on the damages issue. 

Mr. SIRES. How close is the FARC in Colombia to getting an 

agreement? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, I think that the Colombians and 

the FARC continue to have rounds of peace talks. They have made 

significant progress on the five areas that are under discussion, but 

29

there are really hard issues yet to go. I think President Santos continues to remain very much engaged and very committed to moving 

forward with that. I think he believes that the FARC also is interested and he hopes, understands that this is the way out. That it 

is time to come to peace but there are still tough issues to be concluded. 

Mr. SIRES. When Secretary Kerry was before us I raised the concern that we have an observer, supposedly, in the negotiations. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. We have a Special Envoy now in the 

process. 

Mr. SIRES. A Special Envoy. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Right. 

Mr. SIRES. I get concerned that we have an envoy and that if 

things don’t work out they could actually blame the person that we 

put there and say, look, the Americans again are being obstructionists and trying to interfere in our sovereignty. And I worry about 

that. I don’t see why we have to put, I mean this is between the 

FARC and Colombia. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. It is true. 

Mr. SIRES. And I don’t see why we have to meddle into this. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. But we did that at the express request 

of President Santos. 

Mr. SIRES. Well, he may wanted to see if the negotiations fail he 

may have alternative reason to——

Ambassador JACOBSON. I think we took him at his word that he 

felt that it would be of use to him in our support for the Colombian 

Government to have somebody there to support him and to help 

the process. 

Mr. SIRES. Well, we have been supporting Colombia, making 

them strong, training them. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Yes. Yes. 

Mr. SIRES. So I don’t think our support has wavered. 

Ambassador JACOBSON. No, that is correct. 

Mr. SIRES. So I mean to have somebody in there, to me that is 

just typical what happened in history. People will always say 

Americans are always trying to meddle into our sovereignty. And, 

well, I guess they know better than I do, but I just don’t see it as 

a positive. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Sires. 

And thank you, Mr. DeSantis, and you are recognized for as 

much time as you would like to consume. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Thank you. 

Secretary Jacobson, in your opinion have human rights abuses in 

Cuba increased since the President announced his change in policy 

in December? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. In my opinion they have continued. The 

number of short term detentions has been fairly high. And I don’t 

know whether there has been an increased number of those detentions over the last 3 months, but it has been high over the last 

year. 

Mr. DESANTIS. The Cuban dissidents and people promoting democracy in Cuba, they believe that it has increased. Are you familiar with some of the statements that they have made? 

30

Ambassador JACOBSON. I am. There has also been some indication, although not enough to really give us a full set of data that 

there have been more people engaging in some of the activities of 

peaceful protest or dissidents. 

Mr. DESANTIS. I think the fear from the dissidents is that because of this new posture between the United States and the Castro Government, that it provides additional legitimacy that the government actually undercuts their ability to fight for a democratic 

future for Cuba, and I think a lot of them believe that very passionately. So what is your response to them? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. Certainly my response to them would be 

that that is no way the intention nor will we, well, we will speak 

out every time there are such detentions. We have spoken out. It 

is our goal to support the Cuban people with this policy including 

those human rights figures and dissidents. We don’t believe that 

over time this will be something that will result in increased repression against the dissidents, and the human rights dialogue is 

part of what we are going to be having with the Cuban Government. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Well, I think if it does fortify the regime which 

is a fear of many of us, then I think that it will lead to continued 

repression. I guess part of the frustration, this goes beyond your 

portfolio, but I think we have seen in other areas, so for example 

with Iran and the desire to kind of have this rapprochement with 

Iran and so we don’t bring up the terrorism. We don’t really want 

to talk about some of these things. 

Ayatollah Khomeini said death to America, indeed, the other 

day, and that was just viewed by the White House as oh, that is 

just domestic political, don’t worry about that. Well, when Prime 

Minister Netanyahu said something about the infeasibility of two 

states given the environment that was viewed as a hanging offense. 

And so I just worry that when there is a desire to kind of have 

some type of an agreement or change direction that that change 

kind of takes precedent over speaking out for people who are fighting for democracy. I think we made a big mistake in 2009 when 

we had a chance to support people in Iran. And I know it is tricky 

because when the United States, as you mentioned they can use 

that against us, but I do think that that is something that is concerning. 

Let me ask you this. With the new change in policy, if somebody 

travels to Cuba and stays in a hotel that had been a private hotel 

that had been seized by the government after the Cuban Revolution, are they allowed to use a credit card to stay there and pay 

for that? 

Ambassador JACOBSON. To the best of my knowledge, the change 

in the use of credit cards is under the authorized categories, the 

12 categories, and I would have to check on the regulations in 

terms of Americans using credit cards. Obviously the credit card 

companies are allowed to operate, but I have to check on the exact 

restrictions of whether people are allowed to use credit cards on 

American banks, for example, in Cuba. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Because I think current statutory law prevents 

any type of financing arrangements involving property that had 

been seized. 

31

Ambassador JACOBSON. Well, certainly, and that is why I need 

to check on this——

Mr. DESANTIS. Whether a credit card qualifies to finance a stay 

and——

Ambassador JACOBSON. Right, which is Treasury’s specifics and 

OFAC’s, but I can certainly check that for you. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Let me just echo my colleague from Florida about 

our response in Venezuela. Look, we are going to be the bad guy 

no matter what with Maduro. That is the game he has played. 

That is the game that Chavez played. We need to stand up for 

these people who are fighting repression and we have to be unambiguous about that. We have to have moral clarity. And I would 

like to see a stronger response. I know my colleague has wanted 

a stronger response, and I know that we had worked on legislation 

and by the time that passed I know that we didn’t think that that 

was as good as we needed to be. But I would just say stand with 

those people. They are fighting the good fight and we need to stand 

with them. 

I notice just in the request that there is a request for $75.5 million for foreign climate change programs. And if you go down, the 

budget justification for that describes Mexico as a ‘‘global leader’’ 

in combating global climate change, but then it proposes to spend 

$6 million on helping Mexico fund the enhancing capacity for low 

emissions development strategies and $6.5 million to support policy 

for the prevention of deforestation and degradation to address climate change. 

But my question is if Mexico is such a global leader, then why 

would this assistance be necessary? Couldn’t that money be spent 

better doing something else? If a country is doing as well as is said 

in the justification, then why should the taxpayer have to subsidize 

it? 

Ms. HOGAN. Thank you for that question. Indeed we do have a 

program on climate change in Mexico to do the kinds of things that 

you have talked about, because Mexico is not only an emitter of 

greenhouse gases, I think it is the 12th in the world, it also is 

emerging as a leader to show the rest of the developing world what 

is possible in terms of changing their economies to a point where 

they can invest in clean energy. 

So one of the things that we partner with them on is, for example, a clean energy tech challenge whereby we provide seed funding 

to entrepreneurs who come up with marketable ideas for growing 

a green business. For example, one such company is a company 

that is taking agricultural waste and turning that into briquettes 

that can then be used as a low-cost renewable fuel. 

So those are the kinds of things that we are trying to encourage. 

Those are the kind of models that we think other countries can 

adopt and we support that leadership role that Mexico is taking in 

doing just that. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So you think the funding is justified because you 

have seen positive results in some of the resources that we have 

provided to them? 

Ms. HOGAN. That is correct. 

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Mr. DESANTIS. So are these ideas, are they then, once we provide 

money are they used to where it is a self-sustaining business that 

no longer requires any subsidies? 

Ms. HOGAN. That is correct. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Okay. Because we have done some of these subsidies here domestically and there were some big problems with 

some of those companies. 

Well, I appreciate you guys coming to testify, and I yield back to 

my friend. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. DeSantis. And we 

thank our witnesses for being here. And if I could reiterate the subcommittee chairman’s request and our request as well for the documentation, thank you. And with that the subcommittee is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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