**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 1 1 2 U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 3 4 PUBLIC HEARING 5COMMENTS ON PROPOSED CLIMATE, AIR QUALITY, AND 6PERMITTING RULES FOR THE OIL AND NATURAL GAS INDUSTRY 7 WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 8 99:00 A.M. - 2:40 P.M. 10 11 DALLAS CITY HALL, COUNCIL CHAMBERS 12 1500 MARILLA STREET 13DALLAS, TEXAS 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. COURT REPORTERS 23 (800) 288-3376 www.depo.com 24 REPORTED BY: KENDRA ROWLAND, CSR NO. 5500 25**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 JEFF ROBINSON 4 MARK DEFIGUEIREDO 5ALEX MACPHERSON 6 DARRIN LARSON 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 3 1 INDEX OF COMMENTERS 2 Thomas Jones 3Vern Choquette 4 Christine Golding 5 Larry Beck 6 Leisha Anders 7 Laura Trevisani 8 Virginia Fugman 9Al Braden 10 Amanda Renfro 11 Olinka Green 12 Mariah Davis 13 Reverend Mel Caraway 14 Kathy Mitchell 15 Laura Small 16 Katherine White 17 Danna Pyke 18 David Durbin 19 Corey Troiana 20 David Durbin 21 Erin Jordan 22 Emily Conway 23 Sharon Spiess 24 Faith Chatham 25 Matthew Holcomb**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 4 1 Shana McLaughlin 2 Ann Bornholdt 3 David Foster 4 Colata Harlan 5 Liz Wally 6 Tammie Carson 7 Connie Gosnell 8 Marilyn Hamaker 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 5 1 (Commencing at 9:00 a.m.) 2 P R O C E E D I N G S 3MR. ROBINSON: Good morning. My name 4 is Jeff Robinson. I am the chair of today's public 5 hearing. Thank for coming today. Joining me on the 6panel today are Mark DeFigueiredo and Alex Macpherson. 7 We're here today to hear your comments on the EPA's 8 proposed rules relating to the oil and natural gas 9 sector. 10 The specific rules are 1) Oil and Natural 11 Gas Sector: Emission Standards for New and Modified 12 Sources; 2) Source Determination for Certain Emission 13 Units in the Oil and Natural Gas Sector and 3) Review 14 of the New Sources and Modifications in Indian 15 Country: Federal Implementation Plan for Managing Air 16 Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged in Oil and 17 Natural Gas Production in Indian Country. 18 EPA's administrators signed the proposed 19 rules on August 18th, 2015. 20 The proposed New Source Performance 21 Standards would establish methane and VOC standards 22 for hydraulically fractured wells and require 23 owners/operators to find and repair leaks. The 24 proposed rule also would extend emission reduction 25 requirements further downstream, covering equipment in**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 6 1 the natural gas transmission and storage segments of 2 the industry that was not regulated in the Agency's 3 2012 rules. 4 The proposed Source Determination Rule 5 clarifies the EPA's air permitting rules as they apply 6 to the oil and natural gas industry. 7 We also are taking comments on the proposed 8 federal implementation plan to implement the Federal 9Minor New Source Review Program in Indian Country for 10 oil and natural gas production. That plan, known as a 11 FIP, would be used instead of site-specific minor New 12 Source Review preconstruction permits in Indian 13 Country. It would incorporate emissions limits and 14 other requirements from six EPA emissions standards, 15 including the 2015 proposed updates to the New Source 16 Performance Standards on which we are taking comment 17 today. 18 If you would like more details on the 19 proposed rules, there are fact sheets available at the 20 registration desk. 21 Before we get started, I would like to go 22 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules that 23 will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 24 First, please be sure you have checked in at 25 the registration desk, even if you are not planning to**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 7 1 speak today. And if you signed up to speak online or 2 by phone but haven't told us that you're here, please 3 step out to the registration desk and let the EPA 4 staff know that you have arrived. 5I will call speakers up in pairs. When your 6 name is called, please come to the speakers' table at 7 the front of the room. 8 When I call on you to speak, please state 9 your name and spell it for the court reporter. Your 10 comments will be transcribed and included in the 11 record of comments on the proposed rule. 12 It is important that you tell us which rule, 13 or rules, you are speaking about. 14 Each speaker will have five minutes to give 15 comments. We have a timer light to help you know how 16much time you have left to speak. When the light 17 turns from green to yellow, that means you have one 18 minute remaining. When it turns red, that is a signal 19 that you are at five minutes and it's time to stop. 20 When you are finished speaking, please 21 remain at the table until the person next to you has 22 completed his or her testimony. We're here to listen 23 to you today. However, a panel member may ask 24 questions to clarify your comments. I will then call 25 up the next speakers and so on.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 8 1 If you have brought a written copy of your 2 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 3 registration desk before you leave today. We will put 4 any written comments submitted today in the official 5 docket for the proposed rule. 6We also have comment cards available at the 7 registration desk if you would like to submit 8 additional written comments today. 9If you want to comment in writing later, 10 stop by the materials table near the registration desk 11 and pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 12 written comments. Comments must be received by 13 November 17th, 2015. 14 Let me assure you that the EPA gives just as 15much consideration to comments we receive in writing 16 as we do comments that we receive at public hearings 17 like this one. So if you have more comments that you 18 would like to provide EPA, please submit them by the 19 comment period deadline. Your comments will be 20 reviewed. 21 If you have any questions during the day, 22 please see the staff at the registration desk and 23 someone will assist you. 24 Thank you again for taking the time today to 25 share your comments on the EPA's proposal. And let's**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 9 1 get started. 2 Question? 3UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Registration 4 desk is where? 5MR. ROBINSON: Around the corner. 6So the first two speakers are Thomas Jones 7 and Vern Choquette. Thomas is No. 1, and Vern is 8 No. 2. So I will -- let me get the clock set up. 9UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How much time 10 are we given? 11 MR. ROBINSON: Five minutes. 12 And if you could spell your name for her. 13MR. JONES: Yes. My name is Thomas 14 Jones, T-h-o-m-a-s J-o-n-e-s. I am here on behalf of 15Anti-Fracking Coalition in Denton, Texas. 16For the last 12 years, I've been an 17 activist. I have a degree from the National Labor 18 College in Washington, D.C. And I was asked to come 19 and give my opinions on the issue dealing with labor 20 and the fracking situation. 21 One of the biggest issues that they often 22 hear is that it's a job killer to regulate methane and 23 other issues dealing with the fracking. As far as 24 labor is concerned, there has been many coalitions, 25 BlueGreen Alliance for one, that has called for these**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 10 1 type of regulations. 2 Just a handful of the labor unions that 3 support these type of regulations are the United Steel 4 Workers, the United Association of Plumbers and 5 Pipefitters, Utility Workers of America, International 6 Brotherhood of Electric Workers, International 7 Brotherhood of Boilermakers and the Laborers 8 International Union. 9One of the biggest issues -- first of all, 10 from a personal experience, I was a union boilermaker 11 for several years. And with my experience in the 12 industry, when you do regulate, it actually leads to 13more job creation that we had to go in more often and 14 actually replace parts and so forth. Usually, the 15 common philosophy is that that actually is a job 16 killer. And from my own personal experience, I know 17 for a fact that it's not. 18 From studies that have been done by the 19 BlueGreen Alliance, 300,000 jobs could be created 20 with -- dealing with pipeline -- with the leaks and 21 stuff dealing with the pipeline industry. With 1.5 22 billion in charges for lost gas actually found, it 23 would actually cost the taxpayer less money -- the 24 consumer, I'm sorry. 25And in the end it would actually -- it would**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 11 1 take 30 years to actually clean up all the leaks and 2 the holes and stuff dealing with America's pipeline 3 industry. And I just want you to take that into 4 consideration, that, you know, not everyone in labor 5 is against these type of regulations because it's 6 common philosophy that we are, but oftentimes that it 7 actually puts food on the table for us. 8 And I appreciate your time. And thank you 9 very much. 10 MR. ROBINSON: I'm going to stop the 11 clock and restart it, so bear with me for one second. 12 We also have a clock up here on the wall. 13MR. CHOQUETTE: My name is Vern 14 Choquette, and that's V-e-r-n C-h-o-q-u-e-t-t-e. I am 15 an environmental consultant. I work for a company 16 called TSC Environmental. We have offices in Fort 17 Collins, Colorado; Enid, Oklahoma; and Edmund, 18 Oklahoma. 19I have been doing environmental consulting 20 for the past 25 years, and I started as an emissions 21 sampler for a company called TRC, who ironically 22 provided training for the EPA and sampling oversight. 23 So that's how I cut my teeth in the career. 24 I am commenting today on the proposed 25 revisions to Quad O. And you may think it's strange**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 12 1 to comment on a regulation that could end up making me 2 millions and millions of dollars. 3But we've been doing business now in 4 Colorado for several years. They revised the 5 Regulation 7 on the front range to include LDAR 6programs for oil and gas operations. 7 And so we did an initial round of surveys 8 last summer, and then we went back and checked them 9 this summer. And the information we have on the 10 number of leakers on new and modified sources is 11 substantially different than the numbers that you used 12 in your economics here. 13On about 15,000 components in Colorado, we 14 have a leak rate of less than one-tenth of 1 percent. 15And you might find that kind of alarming. But if you 16 think about it, it is new sites. So if they're built 17 new, they should be operating fine. 18 But the thing that surprised us most when we 19 went back this summer and did the same tests on the 20 same facilities is it was unchanged, virtually zero 21 leakers on 15,000 components. 22 Another separate study done by a company 23 called QEP out of Wyoming, and they were up in the 24 Powder River Basin, found the same thing. 25So I guess I would ask the EPA to go back**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 13 1 and revise the calculations based on existing LDAR 2 data on new and existing sources, rather than using 3 the data for old sources. Because I think that what 4 you cited in the regulation is some pretty old data. 5The second thing that I wanted to comment on 6 was just kind of this reliance on OGI technology. New 7 Source Performance Standards is one thing. MACT 8 standards are another. 9But there was a recently promulgated MACT 10 standard for the gasoline terminals. And I don't know 11 if you're familiar with MACT 6(b), but they rely on 12 audio visual and on factory LDAR. And they find that 13 sufficient for gasoline terminals. 14 We do use some OGI instruments. They are 15 complicated to use. They require quite a bit of 16 training, and I think our average cost on those 17 instruments is about $120,000. 18 My concern is for the smaller operators that 19may only have several wells and a basin. They're not 20 going to be able to meet these time frames for the 21 initial survey but also for any resurveys. Because if 22 someone calls us, we're going to go to the guy that 23 has 50 wells to do, not a guy that has five wells to 24 do. 25The other thing is that I am not sure you**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 14 1 are going to get that much better data relying on the 2 OGI versus AVO or just the plain FTE Method 21. And 3 I guess I would kind of like to see the cost benefit. 4 If you really think the OGI data is that much better, 5 compare the cost of OGI to the cost of AVO or LDAR 6 and -- or just the Method 21. 7 And then finally, the cost savings that was 8 estimated -- that EPA estimated that the gas that 9 would be saved would go back into the pipeline when 10 most sites use combustors. So it just goes up in 11 stack. So I think you need to maybe revise your 12 calculations there. And then, I think that's about 13 it. 14 I would like to see vehicle miles traveled 15 included for resurveying because a lot of these wells 16 are remote maybe 100-plus one way from a located -- 17 from a centralized office. And so that's -- that's 18 actually going to be a pretty substantial cost to go 19 back out there. I think that's about it. 20 I did submit public comment -- or written 21 comments, so you guys have that. I really appreciate 22 your time. 23MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 24 Next commenters are Christine Golding and 25 Larry Beck.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 15 1 We have had a small change since you were 2 originally in the room and that's they took our little 3 clock. So when you have spoken for four minutes and 4 you have one minute left, Alex will show you the 5 yellow folder. And the red folder after five minutes 6 is stop. 7 So thank you. So Christine, you're first, 8 please. 9MS. GOLDING: I'm a resident of Dallas 10 and active in the Sierra Club and the League of Women 11 Voters. I would like to thank you for being here. I 12 am grateful for the work that the EPA does. 13I would like to draw your attention to the 14 Railroad Commission's record on flaring in Texas. 15 They have on their website -- this is not exotic 16 data -- a chart that shows that the percent of gas in 17 Texas that was flared went along at a steady level, 18 has gone along at a steady level for 20 years until 19 about four and a half years ago when it increased. 20 Now, I think on our record in the state is 21 better than Nigeria and Russia and North Dakota. But 22 all of those places are improving. They are reducing 23 the rate of flaring, and we seem to be going in the 24 wrong direction. 25So I would ask you to apply the most**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 16 1 stringent possible rules against this waste and 2 pollution and on existing wells as well as new ones. 3 Thank you. 4 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. I will stop 5 the clock. Mr. Beck. 6MR. BECK: I, too, would like to thank 7 you for being here and creating this forum to allow 8 many of us to express our concerns about an industry 9 that seems to put profit over people. 10 My name is Larry Beck. I am from Denton, 11 Texas. I am an active member of the Denton Frack Free 12 Movement up there. And, no, I don't live in close 13 proximity to a gas or oil well. I, like many others, 14 are still a victim of an industry whose practices 15 threaten the environment and human health by consuming 16 vast amounts of water, introducing toxic chemicals 17 into our air and water and damaging natural 18 landscapes, according to a recent study by the 19 Environment Texas Research and Policy Center. 20 I would like to start off by dispelling the 21 notion promoted by the natural gas industry that their 22 product is safe. It is not. True, it is a cleaner 23 fossil fuel than oil and coal. But that doesn't make 24 it clean by default. As mentioned, their product 25 still produces dangerous levels of toxins into the air**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 17 1 and water through its fracking process alone. 2 Of special importance to me, though, is the 3methane waste that comes with natural gas wells. 4 Methane is a greenhouse gas that's 85 times worse than 5 CO2 generated by vehicular traffic in trapping heat in 6 the atmosphere. According to the EPA's Clean Power 7 Plan, the emission of greenhouse gases threatens 8 Americans' health and welfare by leading to 9 long-lasting changes in our climate. 10 I have no doubts about a warming planet 11 that's being impacted by human contributions from 12 extracting and burning fossil fuels, along with 13 stripping our carbon sinks as we destroy forests to 14 develop land for commercial uses and animal 15 agriculture. 16The methane we lose can amount to as much as 17 30 percent in some parts of our state. And this is 18 done to keep costs down for the industry. It's money 19 in their pocket. Sadly, though, this is lost product 20 that could be used to boost production, but which 21 instead is released into the air to sicken those who 22 live nearby and may have respiratory problems before 23 it makes its way into the atmosphere. 24 I understand the need for finding and 25 producing cheap energy and the benefits it has to our**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 18 1 economy. However, this should not prevent measures to 2 be taken to reduce the threats that oil and gas 3 drilling creates. 4 A toxic volatile product that could create 5 catastrophic conditions when corners are cut to save 6money, along with the reality of human error, makes it 7 imperative that citizens have a say when and where 8 these wells are drilled. 9Yet, recently, we seen how our 10 representative government has circumvented when crony 11 capitalists have the ear of legislators. Exaggerated 12 claims of jobs and revenue losses are often inserted 13 into the dialogue to minimize the serious health and 14 safety issues gas and oil drilling poses for 15 communities, especially when it's in closed proximity 16 to where they live, play and send their children to 17 school. 18 House Bill 40 was the outcome of this crony 19 capitalism here in Texas that bought off state 20 legislators and removed a century-old power of local 21 governments making extremely difficult our ability as 22 a community to adopt protective setbacks or other 23 common-sense protections. 24 This kind of disregard for citizen safety 25 and health has gone on way too long. And we are tired**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 19 1 of politicians promising to represent us in Austin or 2 Washington, only to find out that their true 3 constituents seems to be the monied interests that 4 fill their campaign coffers and offer them a 5 high-salaried position once they do leave public 6 service. 7 So we're here today to implore the EPA to 8 take the steps being suggested to cut methane and air 9 pollution from oil and gas facilities. Our economy 10 will not suffer from these actions, though, I'm sure 11 somebody's profits and dividend payouts will be 12 negatively affected at first. 13The EPA's Clean Power Plan also points out 14 that the transition to cleaner sources of energy is 15 already underway. Our goals, therefore, should not be 16 to keep expanding or propping up an energy source that 17 has a life expectancy doomed to expire within this 18 generation. 19We can sustain necessary levels of oil and 20 gas with significant cuts in GHG emissions to keep us 21 up and running while expanding our efforts and 22 resources to ultimately convert to clear, renewable 23 energy sources. 24 The EPA's proposed first-ever national 25methane controls for the oil and gas industry will**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 20 1 make this transition more effective while removing the 2 threat of dirty, finite sources on our homes and 3 families and the very life source we all depend on, 4 this planet, thus allowing us to have a future worth 5 salvaging for our children and grandchildren. 6Thank you. 7 MR. ROBINSON: Any questions? 8 Thank you. 9Next speaker is Laura Trevisani. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think she's in 11 the restroom. She's here in the building. 12 Leisha Anders. 13MS. ANDERS: My name is Leisha Anders. 14 And I want to thank you guys for doing everything that 15 you possibly can. I am an artist. I use my art for 16my platform, which is our climate. I lost a cousin in 17 the BP oil spill in the Gulf, and I have family 18 members in East Texas right now that are dealing with 19 health issues from fracking. 20 So I just want to share my poem that's 21 entitled, "My Poem for Change." 22 New permafrost and greenhouse gas news can 23 cut through hope like a hot knife. What about our 24 future generations having a better life? Please quit 25 questioning our intelligence in Mother Nature in**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 21 1 regard to climate change. 2 The lack of support from the oil and gas 3 industry for me is not strange. 2 billion-plus tons 4 of toxicity a day. I'm here to say, please let's stop 5 it today. 6Texas, we lead the way in carbon emissions. 7 The droughts, the fires, the floods was not enough for 8 some form of submission. Help me to see what is not 9 enough in the name of profit. I know I'm not the only 10 one who sees. We have got to stop it. 11 Clean air in our environment is my focus, 12 and balance is the key. Can one of your mandates, can 13 one of your standards be the plant, the tree? Oil 14 stations, refineries and factories, how about getting 15 them to create jobs for cleaning, plants, adapting and 16 creating ease? Accountability must be had by all. At 17 some levels of integrity, our society has been witness 18 to that. 19Systematically, the environment is my focus. 20 Trees versus corporation. Does an industrial methane 21 machine only go in one direction? Lower our 22 emissions. Practice the Clean Air Act. Is unity that 23 fleeting? Is it really that abstract? 24 Extracting industries, I have to believe you 25 knew at some point, you would have to give back.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 22 1 Taking and fracking, taking and fracking has clearly 2 led to some things out of whack. 3Environment is my focus, and balance is the 4 key. Please do what is right for the earth and the 5 air that we breathe in deciding your strategy. Hear 6 what our voices want to allow. Environment versus 7 profit, stop it. 8 Where there is balance, it benefits all. 9 Increasing humanity and practicing words like safety, 10 security. And how about healthy and responsibility? 11 Will playing outside become a memory and then a 12 fantasy? 13Can we stop this capitalistic gain for one 14 minute to do the right thing? The air that we breathe 15 is my focus, being that I am living. I am not alone 16 in these choices and with my voices. I wonder what 17 the power plants now are focused on. 18 Hear our voices, for we do all have choices. 19And my environment is the focus, and balance is the 20 key. Please, can we all just go and plant a tree? 21 Thank you again, guys, for doing what you 22 can. 23MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. Can you 24 please spell your name for the court reporter? 25MS. ANDERS: Leisha, L-e-i-s-h-a.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 23 1 Anders, A-n-d-e-r-s. 2 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 3MS. ANDERS: Thank you. 4 MR. ROBINSON: Has Laura joined us? 5MS. TREVISANI: My name is Laura 6 Trevisani. I am a community organizer with Texas 7 Campaign for the Environment. Along, you know, with 8 hundreds of other Texans, we worked in opposition of 9 HB 40 during this last legislative session. That's 10 why I really appreciate the EPA taking this important 11 first step to cut methane pollution. 12 It's very sensible and cost-effective, and a 13 lot of other companies are utilizing this. In 14 addition, it cuts the volatile organic compounds and 15 benzene, which is a known carcinogen. But 16particularly here in Texas, it's especially crucial. 17 We represent 30 percent of oil and gas production in 18 the country. So a huge chunk of that 7 million pounds 19 of methane production comes from Texas alone. 20 But it's increasingly important because we 21 see that our own state regulators who should be 22 controlling these sort of emissions are not taking the 23 adequate measures to do so. We don't have any 24 specific requirements for leak detections or repair 25 programs in Texas.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 24 1 And with the stripping of local control and 2 the operations that are controlled by cities and towns 3 in Texas to be able to regulate oil and gas emissions 4 at the local level, we see that the EPA does need to 5 step in where the state government is lacking. 6Especially in cities like DFW and San 7 Antonio, we will see enormous benefits to clean up 8 regional smog, as well as other parts of Texas that 9 are suffering from high levels of ozone ground level 10 pollution. 11 So while this is a great step in the right 12 direction, we do have need more rules that cover 13 existing oil and gas facilities. But we do appreciate 14 that the EPA is taking this important first step. 15Thank you. 16MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. Will you 17 spell your name, please, for the court reporter? 18 MS. TREVISANI: Yes. It's Laura 19 Trevisani, T-r-e-v-i-s-a-n-i. 20 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 21 MS. TREVISANI: Thank you. 22 MR. ROBINSON: The next speakers we 23 would like to call are Virginia Fugman and Al Braden. 24 So if you would come to the front, please. 25And Virginia, you are first. So I will start**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 25 1 the clock. Get ready. 2 MS. FUGMAN: So my name is Virginia 3 Fugman. I also work at Texas Campaign for the 4 Environment, which is a large grassroots nonprofit 5 organization in Texas. But as of, like, 30 weeks ago, 6 I went down to part-time because I'm growing a little 7 human inside of my belly. 8 And I have talked to the EPA lots of times 9 on lots of different issues, about cement and about 10 coal. So, and here I am. I thank you so much for 11 giving us an opportunity to come and talk to you about 12 methane regulations. 13And so I always kind of like made fun of 14 people that said, I'm doing it for my kids. Because 15 we need to like protect the environment just for 16 everybody in general and also for ourselves so we can 17 save ourselves. 18 But now that I'm going to be a mother, it's 19 really crazy about how many things I'm doing as a 20 human being to protect my future generations. But 21 there's only so much that I can do, like, as one 22 individual, as a human being. And so that is why the 23 EPA is so important to come and help to really 24 regulate these monsters of corporations and industry 25 that really do need to be regulated.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 26 1 And so first of all, I really just want to 2 say thank you so much for taking the important first 3 step of even working to control methane emissions. 4 Methane is definitely a highly potent greenhouse gas. 5And over a 20-year time scale, it's going to be 86 6 times more powerful at trapping heat than carbon 7 dioxide. 8 And also, this is the first-ever methane 9 controls for the oil and gas industry. So the 10 proposed control methods are sensible and 11 cost-effective. But the one thing that I really want 12 to encourage is that the regulations go further by 13 covering existing sources, which are by far the major 14 source of the problem. 15By 2018, nearly 90 percent of all methane 16 emissions in the oil and gas sector will come from 17 sources now in existence which aren't covered under 18 the proposal. So when my little kiddo is 3, 90 19 percent of all emissions in the oil and gas sector are 20 going to come from now-existing sources. 21 So there's a whole bunch of stuff that I can 22 do as a mom to help protect my kid, but I'm going to 23 need your help on this one. So please strengthen the 24 regulations. 25Thank you.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 27 1 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. Will you 2 spell your last name for the court reporter? 3MS. FUGMAN: Virginia Fugman, F-, as in 4 Frank, u-g-m, as in Mary, a-n as in Nancy. 5MR. ROBINSON: Al. 6MR. BRADEN: I'm going to give you a 7 quick handout, if I could. Good morning. My name is 8 Al Braden. I'm from Austin, and I work with Sierra 9 Club, Faith and Energy Action Team, 350.org and others 10 as a volunteer. 11 But I want to thank Virginia for coming 12 here. Virginia's story about having that young baby 13 really tells a story. When my young granddaughter was 14 born just a year or two ago, I wrote a long essay 15 about that, about the need to -- about the need to 16 take care of her world. And it really makes a 17 difference. 18 I do a lot of speaking, and I talk about 19 grandchildren in general and the need to take care of 20 our kids for the future. But this really brings it 21 home. 22 So thank you-all from the EPA for being here 23 today and listening to the American people who 24 desperately need your help in the battle against 25 pollution and the climate change.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 28 1 I was thinking about what to say today. And 2 as I was sitting at my computer, I, again, got an 3 e-mail that brought me this chart. This is the chart 4 of August 2015, which is, again, the warmest on 5 record. And I am get really tired of getting these 6 charts. But it seems like every month now is the 7 warmest month on record, and it's pretty clear to 8 understand why. 9This has been in the news for a long time. 10 And I'm almost numb because climate change is 11 relentless and unforgiving because we keep pouring 12 greenhouse gases into the atmosphere at 13 ever-increasing rates. 14 We humans have proven time and time again 15 that we really don't have the will to listen to this 16 or deal with it. We have proved that we're too 17 comfortable in our energy-driven lives, and we're not 18 willing to change or scale back to live again as 19 people with earth's community. We seem to believe 20 that it's all here just to serve us until we can 21 exploit it, extract it, burn it and keep going. 22 If you want to see where all of this leads 23 us, the most clearly and terrifying book I have ever 24 read on the progressive impacts of climate change is 25 called Six Degrees. It's written in 2009. It's**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 29 1 pretty still accurate because it just describes our 2 best estimates of what happens to the earth with each 3 increasing degree of temperature. 4 And it's all very discouraging. It's not a 5 world that we and our children can live in. Once we 6 get beyond two degrees celsius, it's progressively 7 terrifying. But with the climate denier in 8 Washington, bought and paid for by the fossil fuel 9 industry, we're kind of left to work on the margins of 10 this and hope that we can make a little bit of 11 difference here and there and somehow those 12 differences will add up. 13So what you're doing with the regulations 14 that regulate methane is critically important. 15 Because methane -- I had -- my information said 25 16 times as important and as powerful as CO2. I see 86 17 times in the literature this morning. Whatever it is, 18 it's huge. And it is the real risk of this clean gas 19 revolution that we think we're in. 20 But y'all have very detailed studies on 21 methane. Y'all have very detailed studies on all the 22 nuts and bolts and pipes and valves and compressors in 23 the gas industry and that's what you're trying to deal 24 with. 25I was going to read the regulation before I**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 30 1 came down here until I realized that it was 591 pages. 2 And I thought, Well, there is real experts to deal 3 with this. And thank you for being those experts. 4 And there's more to add to it. So I'm 5 asking, not to fill you with more technical 6 information, but really just to ask you to lead us, to 7 make regulations that halt, in a common-sense way as 8 it says, the methane emissions that we're now 9 carelessly allowing and also, as Virginia said, extend 10 it to the existing infrastructure. 11 I mean, it's easy to measure methane. It's 12 easy to see it with infrared cameras and night vision 13 gear. And I'm probably going to buy a video camera so 14 I can start seeing it and recording it. But it's not 15 expensive. The industry can do this, and the studies 16 that you have show that depicts this, by and large, 17 are casual, accidental and easy to fix. 18 So I am here to ask you, please make these 19 rules. Make them apply to existing infrastructure, 20 and make them as soon as possible so that I can go 21 back to Austin and tell my grandchildren that at least 22 we tried to do something here today. We don't have a 23 lot of time left. 24 Thank you very much for your efforts. 25MR. ROBINSON: Thank you, both.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 31 1 Next speaker is Amanda Renfro. 2 MS. RENFRO: I'm Amanda. I'm a 3 community organizer with Texas Campaign for the Free 4 Environment. And I'd like to thank y'all for being 5 here. Know it doesn't fall on deaf ears down in 6 Texas -- I would just like to say that -- while the 7 EPA is in Dallas, Texas right now, one of only three 8 states that you're having hearings at in the U.S. 9 right now. 10 So while you're here, if you get a chance to 11 drive through, like, a mile-long frack farm in West 12 Texas, you should definitely do it because it's an 13 experience, an experience where you will feel nauseous 14 and faint. And people live in those communities that 15 have those feelings all the time. And similar 16 experiences, we have here in North Texas. 17 I know that I was playing with my nephew 18 when he was a child and looked out of his window. 19 He'd showed me a big, like, flare-off from a gas well. 20 And at the time, he thought it was cool as a little 21 boy. He's like, Oh, like an action movie. But little 22 did he realize that that flare-off is why he had 23 asthmatic problems and had to borrow, like, my 24 grandmother's asthmatic machine to breathe. 25And there's lots of stories like this all**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 32 1 across North Texas. As a community organizer, I talk 2 to people with a drill site 300 feet from their 3 doorstep, one family in particular where a woman had 4 five children, and all five of them had skin or 5 breathing issues. 6Now, that is far enough for a small child to 7 run to and back in the time that it takes me to talk 8 to you about this issue, except maybe not because they 9 can't breathe in their own communities. 10 So I can't tell you how excited that we are 11 to have you here, especially since communities have 12 realized that they had to stand up to protect 13 themselves against oil and gas. Dallas, in the last 14 couple of years, passed their own city ordinance. 15 Denton passed a city ban. 16But unfortunately, the legislature and the 17 oil and gas industry got scared. Drew Darby, I heard 18 speak at SMU. They already came up with their own 19 study talking about how the frack leaks in the -- were 20 due to fracking, similar to the ones in Irving. And 21 he stood there talking about how we should pass HB 40 22 and pretty much eliminates these rights to organize 23 and protect them against the industry. 24 So it's definitely needed for you to be 25 there, and I can't say how excited I am that we're**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 33 1 finally going to have some resolution protecting 2 communities against oil and gas. 3But we need EPA to stretch their toes a 4 little bit and strengthen the methane rules a little 5 bit more, including covering existing drill sites so 6 we're not attempting to grandfather in those. Because 7 we know that those things count for others. And if 8 we're going to do it, let's do it right. 92), Cover flaring everywhere, not just in 10 nonattainment zones because we need to cover the 11 places where fracking is most affluent and not just in 12 the big city areas that never have had attainment. 13And then also, cover compressors and 14 compressor stations, making sure that those are 15 regulated. 16Cool. Thank you. 17 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 18 Next speaker is Olinka Green. If you can 19 pronounce and spell your name for the court reporter, 20 please. 21 MS. GREEN: My name is Olinka Green. 22 This is my granddaughter, Mariah Davis. She was born 23 three months premature. She had lung problems when 24 she was born. The reason that we're here today is 25 because I'm not a scientist. I'm a grandmother.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 34 1 During the summertime, we can't take her 2 outside because of the pollution in the air. She's 3 had to be taken to the hospital three or four times 4 for asthma attacks before she was three years of age. 5 We know that African-American children suffer more 6 from asthma and breathing problems than anyone else. 7 As I said, I'm not a scientist. I don't 8 have all the EPA studies. But I do have a grandchild 9 who I want to be able to secure a clear future for. 10 It's also noted that African-Americans who 11 live in poverty-stricken areas who live near plants, 12 highways, places near high emission of methane and 13 things in the air is not good. We suffer from more of 14 those things. 15We just -- we are here today to let you know 16 that we appreciate you for fighting for us. Because 17 you can't buy clean air. You can't buy clean water. 18 And like I said, I'm not a scientist. I am a 19 grandmother. And I want the children to be examples 20 of what her mother and her father have to deal with 21 because of dirty air. 22 No child should have to be on an inhaler 23 before they're two years of age because they can't 24 breathe. Every child should have clean air. It's a 25 shame that she can't go outside on days where there's**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 35 1 hot ozone; or if it's red or if it's orange, we have 2 to watch the television to make sure that it's okay 3 for her go outside. We have to have humidifiers in 4 the house. There is no smoking in my home, so she 5 doesn't have that problem. 6So, you know, it's just that I want to make 7 sure that she has clean air as a little girl. We had 8 clean air. We had trees. And children don't have 9 those options these days. They don't have, you know, 10 clean air. But I want to make sure that she does. 11 And I want y'all to see that this face -- 12 that's why she's here this morning. We could be doing 13 something else, but I want you to see what -- you 14 know, what fighting for clean air is at the age of 3. 15And it's really important that we secure these things 16 not just for her, but for her children. 17 I watch the chem' trails when they come to 18 my community, you know, make a fake cloud cover and 19 all of that. We know that the earth is hotter than 20 it's ever been because of the system change and our 21 climate change. 22 So I know of -- I want to say ecological 23 racism. There are people in my community that dump 24 blood in the creeks. There are people in my community 25 that come and drop fluorescent light bulbs, you know,**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 36 1 in our community and just go off and leave them. You 2 know, we know there are people that are polluting, and 3 they don't seem to care. 4 And so we're just a small fraction of the 5 people that are fighting. But I am trying to teach 6 her at a young age what it's like to advocate for your 7 own place, your own earth and for your piece of clean 8 air and clean water. 9So we want to just say, thank for you coming 10 and hearing the comments. 11 Mariah, do you want to say something? Say, 12 give us clean air. Do you want to say, give us clean 13 air? I'll take you to McDonald's. 14 MS. DAVIS: Give us clean air. 15MS. GREEN: Thank you so much. We 16 appreciate your time for coming and hearing us 17 testify. Thank you so much. 18 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. Can you 19 spell your first name for the court reporter? 20 MS. GREEN: Yes. O-l-i-n-k-a. Last 21 name is Green. And her name is Mariah Davis and she's 22 3. 23MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 24 We have not been brought another card yet. 25 So we will take a break for the next ten or fifteen**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 37 1 minutes until 10:30 until we get new cards. So we 2 will close for 15 minutes. Thank you. 3(Recess taken at 10:08 to 10:30.) 4 MR. ROBINSON: You each have five 5minutes. At four minutes, Alex will show you the 6 yellow folder and at five minutes, the red folder. So 7 we're doing time on the phone here since our little 8 timer -- 9So Reverend Caraway, we have you first. If 10 you will spell your name for the court reporter. 11 MR. CARAWAY: Certainly. My name is 12 Mel, M-e-l, Caraway, C-a-r-a-w-a-y. 13I want to thank you for the opportunity of 14 being here today. I have been a residence of the 15 north Texas area since 1984. Currently, I reside in 16McKinney just north of Dallas. And I have lived there 17 for the past two years. 18 I'm here today representing the board of 19 directors of Texas Impact and the Texas Interfaith 20 Center for Public Policy. We're a staple religious 21 grassroots network whose members include individuals, 22 congregations and governing bodies of Christian, 23 Jewish and Muslim faiths. 24 Texas Impact consists of public policies 25 that are consistent with the universally-held social**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 38 1 principles of all faith traditions in the Abraham 2 spectrum. I'm also a recently retired pastor in the 3 United Methodist Church. 4 So preventing pollution, protecting God's 5 creation are shared concerns of all the world's faith 6 traditions. And these concerns have a particular 7 resonance because what we do to God's creation has a 8 direct influence and effect on the health and 9 wellbeing of all God's children. 10 Methane pollution contributes to common 11 change. It has negative impacts on all creations, 12 including the health of all humans. Sacred literature 13 of our various faith traditions calls upon us to be 14 stewards of God's creation. And as such, we're called 15 to protect the earth and address all of the things 16 that threaten its wellbeing, including, but certainly 17 not limited to methane pollution. 18 In the first chapter of Genesis, we read 19 that God created all that is on earth, including 20 humankind, who was entrusted as the steward of God's 21 creation. 22 The Quran tells us that the world is sweet 23 and verdant and verily Allah has made you stewards in 24 it. And Allah sees how you acquit yourselves. So God 25 has placed us here to take care of what God has**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 39 1 created. 2 One of the ways that government ensures that 3 we take care of God's creation is through the use of 4 regulations. Unfortunately, in our present political 5 climate, especially here in the of Texas, there are 6many politicians who bemoan regulations of any kind, 7 often using the false argument that they are job 8 killers. 9Their argument, which is based on false 10 logic, I believe, claims that unregulated industry of 11 all kinds will create more jobs and have a greater 12 economic benefit. But regulations exist for the 13 primary purpose of balancing economic benefit with the 14 public good, especially as it pertains to health for 15 all citizens, and more specifically those that are 16 vulnerable: children, the elderly, those with chronic 17 respiratory conditions. 18 Unfortunately, regulations to cut methane 19 emissions are greatly needed here in the state of 20 Texas, as well as the entire nation, but more so here 21 than elsewhere. This is because our elected officials 22 at the very highest levels of state government, 23members of the Texas Commission on Environmental 24 Quality and the Texas Railroad Commission have not 25 only not acted to protect the health and welfare of**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 40 1 the citizens of the state of Texas, they have been -- 2 also used litigation to sue unmercifully without 3 conscience preventing previous EPA regulations from 4 being enforced. 5This is a moral issue. It is much, much 6more than just a justice issue. It's about health. 7 It's about climate change. It's about justice for all 8 who live near oil and gas development. It's about our 9 children, our grandchildren, their children, their 10 grandchildren and the callous disregard of those who 11 are making the laws here in the state of Texas and 12 enforcing them are creating a situation which has 13 become almost untenable. 14 The -- one of the things that they have done 15 is they have systematically, since the formation of 16 Texas Commission on Environmental Quality, removed 17 human health from their mission statement. Initially, 18 in the enacted legislation, it was there. They 19 have -- since 2000 they have removed it from every 20 aspect of their mission statement. 21 Human health does not matter to the 22 government of Texas. The EPA needs to regulate, and 23 that is our only hope. Thank you very much. 24 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 25(Applause)**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 41 1 MS. MITCHELL: Do I need to state my 2 name and spell it? 3MR. ROBINSON: Please. 4 MS. MITCHELL: It's Kathy Mitchell, 5 K-a-t-h-y, M-i-t-c-h-e-l-l. 6I am a residence of Arlington and a 7 volunteer for Livable Arlington. Thank you for 8 allowing us this time to speak today. 9In April a gas well blowout occurred less 10 than a mile from my grandbaby's home in Arlington, 11 spilling 42,000 gallons of fracking fluid into the 12 streets and storm drains. 13The investigation determined the leak was 14 caused by an improperly manufactured frack adapter 15mandrill. And I cannot find anyone who knows whether 16 the faulty equipment was recalled or even if well 17 operators across the country were officially notified 18 of the potential danger of a similar incident 19 occurring. 20 Since fracking is only marginally regulated 21 on a federal level, individual states are left to 22 their own discretion as to how to handle such matters. 23And no coordination appears to exist on a national 24 level to ensure adequate safety. This is just another 25 example of why we need the EPA to be more involved in**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 42 1 the regulation of hydraulic fracturing operations. 2 Soon after this well accident, Texas House 3 Bill 40 was passed disallowing cities from setting any 4 regulations on gas wells unless those regulations are 5 deemed by the state to be commercially reasonable. 6 The state of Texas sternly places economic gains ahead 7 of public health concerns. And it negates surface 8 rights in favor of mineral rights even though the 9 surface is where we work and play and live and 10 breathe. 11 On August 1st my daughter and I attended an 12 urban fracking educational forum in Arlington. The 13 entire meeting was recorded, so everything that I am 14 about to report can be checked for accuracy. During 15 this meeting, Elizabeth Smith with the Texas 16 Commission on Environmental Quality stated that 17 continuous air quality monitors at fracking wells are, 18 and I quote, "cost prohibitive." 19Again, in the state of Texas, public health 20 and safety are not the primary concern. I believe 21 that if fracking is so economically beneficial, then 22 the state or the oil companies conducting the fracking 23 operations should be required to pay for adequate 24 quality controls, including continuous air quality 25monitors in an urban area prone to air quality alerts.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 43 1 I have very mild asthma. But I can attest 2 that on ozone alert days, I can feel the effects of 3 the added pollution. And this past summer I did have 4 to forego many daily walks in order to -- because of 5 the air quality. 6At this same meeting in August, Gay McGail 7 Whale with the Texas Railroad Commission said the 8 state legislature did not approve their request for 9more funding for additional oil and gas well 10 inspectors. And she noted the inspectors they have in 11 place work long hours trying to keep up with the 12 workload. She stated and I quote, "We need more 13 inspectors. We don't have enough inspectors." 14 Even more upsetting to me was hearing her 15 say that the Railroad Commission cannot give any 16 considerations to this lacking of resources when 17 approving new drilling permits. So new wells are 18 multiplying in Texas, while the ability to monitor 19 safety diminishes. 20 Harvard Business School recently released a 21 study on fracking entitled, "America's Unconventional 22 Energy Opportunity," wherein even Harvard Business 23 School notes that -- and again, I quote, "The 24 development of unconventional energy resources creates 25 significant environmental risk to water, air, land and**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 44 1 communities which must be clearly acknowledged." 2 This study further notes that we need to 3 improve in many areas. Some of those areas noted are 4 setting robust -- and Harvard uses the term, robust -- 5 regulatory standards, strengthening regulatory 6 enforcement and producer compliance and containing 7 methane leakage which can offset the climate benefits 8 of natural gas. 9The study goes on to note, and I quote, 10 "There is no inherent tradeoff between environmental 11 protection and company profitability. With sound 12 regulation and strong compliance, the cost of 13 goods" -- I'm sorry, "the cost of good environmental 14 performance is modest and gives companies a level 15 playing field on which to compete." This is Harvard 16 Business School speaking. 17 In my opinion, the evidence leads to only 18 one conclusion. Our state governments have proven 19 that they cannot be trusted to enact regulations 20 necessary to ensure environmental health and safety. 21 And if fracking is to be allowed in this country, it 22 is an industry that absolutely must fall under robust 23 regulations under the federal level. 24 I strongly support the EPA's enactment of 25 stricter standards for all new and all existing gas**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 45 1 wells. Thank you for your time today. 2 (Applause) 3MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 4 The next two speakers, Laura Small and 5 Catherine White. 6Laura first. 7 MS. SMALL: Do you need me to spell my 8 name? 9MR. ROBINSON: Please, for the court 10 reporter. 11 MS. SMALL: My name is L-a-u-r-a, 12 Laura, S-m-a-l-l, Small. 13MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 14 MS. SMALL: Thank you. Good morning and 15 thank you for holding these public hearings to discuss 16 the EPA's proposed air rules for new and modified 17 sources in the oil and gas industry. 18 My name is Laura Small. I'm a policy 19 associate with the Environmental and Energy Study 20 Institute, a nonprofit that works to promote 21 sustainable solutions to climate change. 22 To begin, I would like to commend the EPA 23 for their work to reduce methane and Volatile Organic 24 Compounds, or VOC emissions, which will protect human 25 health and reduce harmful climate change.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 46 1 VOCs are a group of chemicals which can 2 individually cause -- have adverse health defects, 3 including liver, nervous system damage, cancer, 4 headaches and nausea. When these are brought into the 5 air, VOCs react to form ground level ozone or smog, 6 which leads to asthma and premature death. 7 EPA's actions to limit VOC emissions from 8 new and modified oil and gas resources will help limit 9 these harmful health effects in the future. 10 Methane, which I will focus on in my 11 comments today, has very serious ramifications for the 12 world's climate. Methane is a powerful climate 13 pollutant, at least 84 times more powerful than carbon 14 dioxide during the first 20 years of its presence in 15 the atmosphere. Because of its potency, reducing 16methane emissions can reduce the rate of warming 17 substantially in the near term. 18 EPA estimates that methane comprises nearly 19 10 percent of the U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. 20 However, some studies have recently concluded you've 21 significantly underestimated the quantity of methane 22 emissions. 23A study published last month found emissions 24 from facilities that collect natural gas from well 25 sites called gathering facilities emit eight times as**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 47 1 much methane as EPA estimated in its greenhouse gas 2 inventory. These kinds of findings indicate the 3 problem could be corroborated and currently 4 understood. 5There are many sources of methane, including 6 agricultural and industrial processes. But the oil 7 and gas sector is one of the larger ones representing 8 nearly 30 percent of all methane emissions. It's also 9 one of the easier sources to address. 10 However, EPA has noted that methane 11 emissions from the oil and gas sector are projected to 12 rise 25 percent in the next ten years if implements 13 are not proposed, making this an even more crucial 14 area. 15There are serious leakages of methane 16 throughout the entire oil and gas production and 17 pipeline distribution in the structure. In many cases 18 investing in the equipment and practices necessary to 19 reduce leakage can actually be a cost savings. 20 The administration estimates that -- methane 21 oils would save up to 180 billion feet of natural gas 22 in 2025, and I'm thinking more than two million homes 23 per year. 24 Reducing leakages would also lead to safer 25 operations and better public safety, as methane is**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 48 1 particularly flammable and can cause explosions. 2 Although the methane is -- needed to reduce methane 3 leakage and is cost-effective and, in fact, leaks 4 usually lose profits. Many in the oil and gas 5 industry are pillaging investments in capacity 6 instead. That is why government action is needed. 7 In the EPA's proposed rule of August 18th, 8 it sets draft standards for methane emissions from new 9 and modified production processing and transmission 10 facilities in the oil and gas sector. This proposal 11 will be key to fund the White House's pledge to cut 12 methane emissions from the sector 40 to 45 percent 13 below 2012 levels by 2025. 14 Overall, EPA estimates this proposed 15 regulation to avoid emissions at 300- and 400,000 16 short tons of methane by 2025, offering a climate 17 benefit of 120- to 150 million. 18 We applaud the EPA's work and proposed 19 regulation to cover not only emissions from production 20 of processing of oil and gas, but also to emissions 21 from transmission and storage and to require owners 22 and operators to find and fix leaks. 23The EESI is also pleased to see that EPA 24 expanded its new sources rules to cover sources 25 previously unregulated in the 2012 ESE air rules, such**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 49 1 as future emissions from well sites, compressor 2 stations and -- 3However, we hope EPA will improve the final 4 rule by requiring owners and operators to frequently 5 inspect their facilities either on a monthly or a 6 quarterly schedule with no step-up or -down provisions 7 based on the number of leaks they find. 8 We would also like to see the final rule 9 expand its coverage to include some additional 10 important leakage areas, such as compressors at well 11 sites and storage vessels. 12 Finally, the final rule should encourage oil 13 and gas companies to either use or sell the gas it 14 captures by sealing the leaks, as opposed to burning 15 it off through flaring or in an incinerator. 16The draft standards for existing sources of 17 methane emissions, we know are voluntary. And 18 separate regulations, the Department of the Interior 19 is working to restrict emissions from existing sources 20 on -- 21 However, it's our hope that EPA will act 22 soon to regulate methane emissions from existing 23 sources as the Clean Air Act requires them to do once 24 they've regulated new and modified sources. 25On July 1st, 2015, EPA received a letter**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 50 1 from the Coalition of Investors representing 1.5 2 trillion in assets in support of the president's plan 3 to cut emissions 45 percent of the levels by 2015. 4 The letter states, As widely diversified 5 long-term investors with holdings in the oil and gas 6 industry, we are concerned that methane emissions pose 7 a serious threat to climate stability. The investors 8 add that methane regulation reduces reputational and 9 legal risks and in many cases, generates positive 10 economic returns. 11 In conclusion, reducing methane emissions is 12 critical to global warming and represents an economic 13 opportunity and public health benefit. We have to 14 work with EPA to ensure these regulations are strong 15 and reasonable. Thank you. 16MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 17 (Applause) 18 MS. WHITE: My name is Katherine White, 19 K-a-t-h-e-r-i-n-e W-h-i-t-e. I'm here on behalf of 20 the City of Denton, our mayor and mayor pro tem to 21 read some comments. They were not able to attend 22 today. 23On behalf of the City of Denton, Texas, we 24 would like to offer some observations we believe may 25 be of benefit to the EPA with regard to the proposed**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 51 1 rules to combat climate change and reduce air 2 pollution as a result of methane and Volatile Organic 3 Compounds emitted by oil and gas production. 4 The City of Denton has recently been on the 5 forefront in a national and international controversy 6 regarding hydraulic fracturing by gas well operators. 7 Denton voters passed a historic condition of ordinance 8 banning fracking in the City of Denton city limits in 9 November of 2014. 10 We note that this vote had the salutatory 11 effect of raising the conversation regarding the 12 impacts of gas drilling in an urban area and in close 13 proximity to homes, schools and other protected areas. 14 Denton's experience in defending this ban 15 desired by the electorate, as well as our own 16 experience, in attempting to regulate the oil and gas 17 industry through our police and vending powers has 18 taught us several things. 19First, the oil and gas industry has little 20 desire to be regulated by local governments even 21 though the impacts of oil drilling can be substantial 22 on local citizens. 23Second, our attempt to regulate the oil and 24 gas industry, the state simply preempted local 25 governments from enacting hydraulic fracturing bans.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 52 1 Then went far beyond the hydraulic fracturing issue to 2 preempt local government from most regulation but for 3 that associated with nuisance matters, such as noise 4 and setbacks, et cetera. 5What little authorities cities had in the 6 oil and gas regulation has, therefore, been curtailed. 7 EPA's proposed regulations address critical 8 greenhouse gas pollution issues which threaten 9Americans' health and welfare due to long-lasting 10 changes in our climate that can have a wide range of 11 negative effects on human health and environment. The 12 EPA reports methane is one of such source of 13 emissions. 14 We know that the EPA's projections are that 15 20 to 30 percent reduction in methane emissions in 16 this country can be expected by the application of 17 these rules to the oil and gas industry and oil and 18 gas transmission and restructure. This is noteworthy. 19EPA may expect the oil and gas industry to 20 point to reduction in methane emissions from frac and 21 natural gas wells since 2005 and that voluntary 22 compliance is the best approach. In our experience, 23 voluntary compliance is possible with some elements of 24 the industry, but not all. 25Without mandatory standards, it's unlikely**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 53 1 that all elements of the industry will implement 2 necessary controls. 3In closing, we are of the opinion that EPA's 4 regulations are not prohibitive to the oil and gas 5 industry and will enhance air quality for our 6 citizens. They set the right policy and encourage the 7 use of renewable energy. 8 In that regard, take note that Denton has 9 part interest in a coal-power generation facility, but 10 now envisions energy production for facilities with a 11 cleaner environmental footprint. 12 We are in the process of moving to new 13 renewable energy to address our environment footprint. 14 We currently have 45 percent renewable energy and plan 15 to increase that percentage substantially in the 16 not-too-distant future. 17 This has been a struggle, but the end result 18 is an investment in wind and solar power with far less 19 of an environment footprint than before. We believe 20 the oil and gas industry just like -- will adapt and 21 that EPA's policy is sound. 22 Most of the states are not regulating air 23 emissions to the extent necessary. And local 24 governments are not in the best position to effect 25 change. Denton expects that a substantial number of**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 54 1 additional gas wells will be drilled in the city, and 2 our citizens will continue to be impacted. Therefore, 3 we support the proposed rules as drafted by the EPA. 4 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 5(Applause) 6MR. ROBINSON: Next two speakers are 7 Donna Pyke and David Durbin. 8 MS. PYKE: Are we allowed to show you 9 guys something on my phone real quick? 10 MR. ROBINSON: Sure. 11 MS. PYKE: We were so excited when the 12 fracking ban got voted in. Look at us there with our 13 signs telling everybody to vote for the fracking ban. 14 This was on the Denton Square. I'm part of the North 15 Texas Light Brigade, and this is part of what we do. 16 Because, of course, the ballot was written so that 17 people would be confused also from the beginning. 18 MR. ROBINSON: You each have five 19minutes. At four minutes, Alex will show you the 20 yellow folder and five minutes, the red folder. 21 If you will please state your name and 22 spell your name for the court reporter, we would 23 appreciate it. 24 So Donna. 25MS. PYKE: It's actually Danna,**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 55 1 D-a-n-n-a, Miller. Last name Pyke, P-y-k-e. 2 I'm more of a storyteller than our wonderful 3 people who are laying out the facts, so I'm here to 4 tell a couple of stories. The first story is how 5 excited we were in Denton when that fracking ban came 6 in and how very sad we were when HB 40 got enacted. 7 It's very, very unusual for a state like 8 Texas to do something like that, and I think it really 9 speaks to the level that big oil is willing to go to 10 keep us from having control over our air quality. 11 I was telling my little activist friend, 12 Cindy, this morning, that I'm just mad at this point. 13 I am a peaceful person. I'm just upset, you know. 14 And I appreciate your attention. It helps. Thank you 15 for what you're doing. I had no idea it would be this 16 emotional, but here I am as I am. 17 I can tell you a story about my friend, 18 Leslie Alshop (phonetic). She's a nurse practitioner 19 in Fort Worth, and she talks all of the time about the 20 asthma that the kids over there have. In fact, she's 21 working with a program right now to try to help people 22 put together machines where they can test their own 23 air quality. Because at this point, we don't even 24 always believe, you know, what comes out anymore. 25 There's been so much subterfuge.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 56 1 I can tell you in Denton after the fracking 2 ban was voted in, that some of my young activist 3 friends heard some big oil guys talking. You know 4 what they were saying? They were saying, Well, we 5 will fill up these apartment complexes with people, 6 and we will get their votes. Don't you worry. We 7 will repeal this thing. 8 Now, that is just anecdotal evidence, but 9 this is the kind of stuff we're up against. Have 10 other people had these experiences sitting in this 11 room? Yeah. I think we really have. So I can talk 12 about that. 13I'm a teacher. I teach art. I'm also a 14 social worker. I teach movement. I teach 15 nature-based science to little children. I can talk 16 about the fact that -- I could tell you a story about 17 the fact that they carry inhalers. Half of them carry 18 inhalers in their little bitty pockets. You know, 19 what is wrong? 20 So I appreciate what you guys are doing so 21 much, and I want to ask you to keep doing more. And 22 the fact is we need protection from our government 23 here, and we're looking to you to do that for us, 24 please. Jeff and Mark and Alex, I really hope you're 25 listening.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 57 1 You know, I could tell you a story about our 2 home and the fact that we get a lot of earthquake 3 activity over there. Anybody else have the 4 earthquakes in the area? 5THE AUDIENCE: Yeah. Yes. 6MS. PYKE: Yeah. I mean, just 7 like you're -- just suddenly, you're just sitting 8 there. You know, there's this earthquake. Right? 9And then, I could tell you a story about the 10 water leak it caused under our house. A good old 11 pier-and-beam house, it's been sitting there for about 12 60 years. Suddenly, it got a water leak. And guess 13 what? The first time in the life of that house, 14 damage to the foundation, $13,000. 15Did I mention I'm a social worker and a 16 teacher and an activist? We get paid just millions of 17 dollars. You can imagine. And anyway, so that's the 18 personal part of the stories that I would like to be 19 sure and mention. 20 And so I could go on and on telling the 21 stories. It's the children I worry about most. My 22 specialty is geriatric social work. I see old people 23 who can't breathe. And, you know, I'm starting to 24 worry for our world. 25And I tell you what, I feel frustrated and**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 58 1 sad and angry. And you know what I need? I need 2 protection, and I notice that that is what you guys 3 are supposed to be doing. Right? Environmental 4 Protection Agency. So I'm just asking you to do your 5 job with great gusto because we really, really need 6 your help. 7 And, you know, if all you guys are from the 8 local office here, you know what I'm talking about. 9 You can walk outside, and you can tell the difference 10 on some days. Just like Kathy said, you just walk out 11 and you're like, crap. 12 You know, a lot of my work is in Oak Cliff. 13And I drive over that bridge, and I can look over the 14 Dallas skyline. And it's not as bad as Fort Worth, 15mind you, if you look at the levels. It's not as bad 16 as Denton. But I can look at the Dallas skyline, and 17 I can tell you orange, red, whatever. I can just look 18 at it, and I can see it. And I really would love to 19 see some blue skies when I look over that way. I would 20 really love for my grandchildren, future grandchildren 21 not to carry an inhaler. 22 So I would like to end with a song. I'm 23 assuming I can get some help out there. 24 The people are going to rise like the water. 25 We're going to slow this chaos down. I hear the**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 59 1 voices of my great granddaughters saying, stop this 2 fracking now. Whew. 3One more time, people are going to rise like 4 the water. We're going to slow this chaos down -- 5 come on and join me, man -- I hear the voices of my 6 great granddaughters saying, stop this fracking now. 7 Thank you very much. 8 (Applause) 9MR. ROBINSON: And Alex [sic], if you 10 will spell your name, your last name. 11 MR. TROIANI: Yeah, sure. I am Corey 12 Troiani, C-o-r-e-y, T-r-o-i-a-n-i. 13MR. ROBINSON: Corey. I'm sorry. 14 I am a native north Texan. I live here in 15 Dallas. 16So good morning, EPA. Thanks for coming to 17 the lion's den today. I think, what is it, we're the 18 number one state in suing you guys? So thanks for 19 being here with open ears. It's really important. 20 So I think it's time that we put all the 21 politics aside. And we need to face the facts, which 22 is that the number one issue that's driving species 23 lost, students' security, sea level rise, ocean 24 acidification, as well as the ultimate buzzword, 25 national security threats -- thanks to our good**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 60 1 defense -- is anthropogenic climate change or human 2 cause of global warming. Right? 3We know that methane plays a significant 4 role in causing climate change. And some of the 5 largest emitters, of course, industrial emitters are 6 the oil and gas industry. So -- and 30 percent of 7 these emissions we know are coming from our Lone Star 8 state, so that is significant. So we certainly -- 9 this action taking place in Texas. 10 And so I would like to say that the proposed 11 Clean Power Plan dealing with carbon dioxide and the 12 one dealing with methane and especially the regional 13 one dealing with ozone that you guys are considering, 14 I think, is fantastic work. 15It would be even more fantastic if you would 16 have implemented this 25 years ago when everybody was 17 screaming and shouting to begin with, but we will take 18 it now to give people a charge. Right? Cool. 19So let's get down to business. We need EPA to 20 regulate methane for a couple of reasons. I just 21 mentioned one, biological and cultural systems across 22 the world are failing because of our negligence to the 23 environment. 24 The other one is that we don't have any 25 state or local regulatory agencies that are taking the**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 61 1 situation seriously. That's why we need you to step 2 in. 3In fact, a few people have already mentioned 4 that House Bill 40 passed this year in the Texas 5 legislature, which basically took away local control 6 for smaller governments to mandate regulations on oil 7 and gas. These local -- the agencies who now have 8 control over this, the Railroad Commission and the 9 TCEQ, are not to be trusted for safeguarding public 10 health. 11 In fact, the TCEQ has claimed that ozone is 12 a harmless gas, that you're basically protected from 13 it with, you know, these air-conditioning systems. 14 The Railroad Commission still holds high-dollar 15 electoral campaigns. 16And two of our commissioners who are running 17 the Railroad Commission right now, Ryan Sitton, had a 18 four-million-dollar campaign where most of his 19 contributions came from the oil and gas sector. In 20 his spare time, he consults with the oil and gas 21 industries while he's not regulating them. And 22 Christi Craddick, our other commissioner, still has 23 significant investments in Exxon Mobile and other oil 24 and gas industries. 25So clearly, they're not taking action nor**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 62 1 taking this seriously. They're, more or less, 2 industry lapdogs. They sit inside the industry and 3 rubberstamp events day in and day out and don't hold 4 them accountable. And they know that. Industry knows 5 that they're not held accountable to rules here in 6 Texas especially. 7 It's cheaper for them to have excessive 8 emissions, accidents, take a neighborhood to court if 9 they have to, keep them in court until the last man is 10 standing, buy them off, you know, keep their silence 11 and move on and continue to do that, rather than 12 preventing the incidents in the first place. 13So this is the state of affairs in Texas. 14 We need you to intervene immediately with this plan, 15 and I really appreciate you working on it. 16You are going to hear today, I'm sure, from 17 a lot of these representatives that, you know, we're 18 doing just a fine job. Take that with a grain of 19 salt. We're not doing a fine job. 20 So, yeah, of course, the industry is going 21 to love, you know, getting slapped on the wrist by 22 puppets that they elect. But we need two-feet 23 regulators to get down to business, and I need EPA to 24 be a two-feet regulator. 25So, yeah, it's certainly encouraging to have**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 63 1 a discussion about methane. There's a few exciting 2 points with your 600-page document that seems to be 3 written by Jack Carroll Mack, taped it and ran it 4 through a typewriter without even creating a table of 5 contents. I don't know why. 6But thankfully, there are some talking 7 points I have here that I can cover. There are a few 8 things that I think are good, and there are a few 9 things that need to be changed. 10 Right now, there are pieces of equipment 11 omitted from being regulated, like storage vessels, 12 that are covered under your VOC standards but are not 13 under the methane standards. That could have been 14 just a regulatory oversight. But make sure to check 15 into that if you want storage vessels to be regulated. 16Liquids, unloading operations, you know, when 17 they're unloading and loading liquids, make sure that 18 you can check methane emissions and VOCs from them, 19 pneumatic controllers that operate on intermittent or 20 a snap-acting basis and compressors at well sites. 21 I mean, it's really interesting that, you 22 know, you will regulate a compressor that's on its 23 own, stands alone, but not one that's right there on 24 the pad site. I think that, you know, all compressor 25 stations need to be regulated. Because, I mean, they**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 64 1 are some of the worse emitters of toxic acids. 2 So a couple of other things. 3MR. ROBINSON: You can wrap up. 4 MR. TROIANI: Yeah, I'll wrap up. 5Basically, we want to shorten the time 6 frames that you allow them to respond to these things. 7 Right now, you have, like, six months for them to 8 respond to an incident if it's not an emergency. We 9 need to reduce that. 10 I also second that we should have more fixed 11 inspections. They should be monthly or quarterly, 12 rather than biannually. 13And, yeah, I think that's about all I have 14 for you today. Thank you so much. 15MR. ROBINSON: Thank you both very 16much. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. ROBINSON: David Durbin and Erin 19 Jordan. 20 Mr. Durbin, if you will state your name and 21 spell it for the court reporter. And five minutes. 22 MR. DURBIN: Yes. My name is David 23 Durbin. That's David and then D-u-r-b-i-n. 24 So I appreciate this opportunity for people 25 to speak up about this vital issue. Air pollution and**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 65 1 global warming are real problems. They're harming 2 people today. Air pollution gets better in some 3 areas. It gets worse in others. 4 The one thing we do know also is that global 5 warming is getting worse. Not enough is being done 6 about it. And I was really surprised to find that in 7 the United States, methane emissions from oil and gas 8 extraction are roughly equivalent on their impact on 9 global warming to 150 coal-fired power plants. I 10 found that to be astonishing. 11 So anything that can be done to limit that 12 waste -- and I realize not all of it can be stopped, 13 of course. But a lot of it can be, it sounds like. 14 It would be really good. 15So the EPA proposal, as it stands, would not 16 only reduce methane, but it would also reduce the smog 17 and soot formed by other chemicals that leak alongside 18 the methane. That would have a big impact, especially 19 in cities and areas near where the gas and oil 20 extraction is done. 21 But the new proposed rule only covers new 22 and modified infrastructure. As much as 90 percent of 23 all new oil and gas sector methane emissions would not 24 be covered by the new rule. And so to reduce the 25 disease-causing air pollution and to have a chance at**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 66 1 meeting our national greenhouse gas reduction 2 commitment, we need more comprehensive standards. 3 This is a good start. 4 And any reductions in the pollutants 5 associated with methane leakage will improve air 6 quality in Texas, and we need that. The air quality 7 in parts of Texas is bad. Methane leakage from oil 8 and gas production needs to be cut in half if we are 9 to meet our international greenhouse gas reduction 10 commitments. 11 A rule that only affects new and modified 12 infrastructure is not enough. To adequately address 13 the problem of methane leakage, all production stages 14 where methane leaks should be covered. Inspections 15 should be more frequent, and the leaks that are found 16 should be fixed faster. 17 And I understand that there were some folks 18 speaking earlier downstairs, they were talking about 19 the technology they have for detecting leaks and that 20 a lot of these leaks can be fixed easily and 21 inexpensively. So it can be done. 22 And capturing methane has the additional 23 benefit of reducing waste. All the cost of pollution 24 really should be considered when new regulations are 25 being formulated. Not just the dollar cost that can**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 67 1 be most immediately identified, but there's also human 2 costs. And the cost that we can foresee -- that we 3 can reasonably foresee but may not be able to quantify 4 totally effectively down the road, you know, commonly 5 known as externalities. 6Those externalities should be accounted for, 7 and right now they're not being accounted for. That 8 is the gaping hole right now in pollution control is 9 that externalities are not accounted for. And we 10 really need more of these gaps to be covered in this 11 regulation. 12 But I thank you for what you've done so far 13 and for what you're doing. 14 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 15Erin, if you will state your name and spell 16 it, please, for the court reporter. 17 MS. JORDAN: Hello, and good morning. 18 My name is Erin Jordan. That's E-r-i-n. Last name 19 J-o-r-d-a-n. 20 And I will keep it short and sweet. I'm 21 sure your ears are going to want to bleed at the end 22 of this day having to listen to so many people. 23But I've been a resident of Dallas for the 24 last eight years. I'm originally from the east coast, 25 North Carolina. I am an activist with Texas Campaign**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 68 1 for the Environment. I'm an avid outdoors woman, a 2 cyclist and a yoga instructor as well. So air quality 3 and the ability to breathe is essential in my ultimate 4 livelihood. 5I do want to thank you for choosing our city 6 as one of the hosts for this hearing. Of course, we 7 are all here to talk about methane regulation, 8 something I think is long overdue. 9And while I do appreciate the EPA finally 10 taking this important first step to cut methane air 11 pollution from new oil and gas facilities, I urge you 12 to expand the rule to cover existing oil and gas 13 facilities as well. For the health and wellbeing of 14 future generations, I urge you to not stop at this 15 elementary draft. 16It is evident and well-known that existing 17 sources, especially here in Texas, are a far bigger 18 problem. And, you know, I'm sure I'm going to 19 reiterate a lot of points that a lot of people have 20 already made today. But by 2018 -- that's three years 21 from now -- nearly 90 percent, 90 percent of all 22 methane emissions in the oil and gas industry will be 23 from existing facilities. 24 And the current rule at this stage is like 25 putting a Band-Aid on a bullet wound. It's a solution**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 69 1 that's inept for the problem at hand. The U.S. cannot 2 meet its international greenhouse gas reduction 3 commitments unless it cuts existing and new or 4 modified oil and gas sources. 5At best, methane emissions would remain flat 6 with the current proposal. And this is just not good 7 enough. We need to address the problem at the root 8 and not satisfy for a half-hearted attempt as it 9 stands right now. 10 It is well-known that this industry, for the 11 most part, refuses to use best practice unless 12 required to do so. Voluntary programs certainly don't 13 work. We need rules like this one to actually fix the 14 problem. 15This role is especially crucial for states 16 like Texas. As Corey pointed out, as Mr. Durbin 17 pointed out, you know, 30 percent of U.S. oil and gas 18 production comes from this state alone. That is seven 19million tons of methane pollution that is vented, 20 flared, leaked and otherwise wasted from operations. 21 And thanks to our lovely officials in 22 Austin -- and please note my sarcasm -- our cities and 23 towns have been stripped of their one-hundred-year-old 24 power to protect citizens' health from oil and gas 25 pollution beyond what the state is willing to do.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 70 1 And our state regulators and legislative 2 leadership are not adequately regulating oil and gas 3 pollution and have specifically refused to regulate 4 methane. In fact, they even expanded the use of 5 permits to allow extended flaring, issuing 2,200 more 6permits in 2015 than in 2014. 7 We need the EPA to make a comprehensive 8 ruling. Cities like DFW and San Antonio would see 9 huge benefits from this rule in their efforts to clean 10 up regional smog. 11 So in closing, we must be proactive and 12 preemptive in our actions. We must treat the problem 13 as a whole and actually make meaningful and 14 significant efforts to reduce methane emissions. 15And please remember, we all breathe the same 16 air. It connects every living thing on this planet: 17 you, I, the animals, plants, everything. So why not 18 make the best effort to make the cleanest air 19 possible? 20 This rule is a much needed step in the right 21 direction. But it, by no means, lessens the urgency 22 to transition away from fossil fuels to renewable. 23This planet is finite, its resources finite. 24 We must do what we can now to protect ourselves and 25 future generations from the harm caused by the fossil**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 71 1 fuel industry for our grandchildren. 2 So thank you. 3MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 4 (Applause) 5MR. ROBINSON: The next two speakers we 6 have are Emily Conway and Sharon Spiess. 7 You each have five minutes. At four 8 minutes, Alex will show you the yellow folder and five 9minutes, the red folder. 10 Thank you. If you will state your name and 11 spell it for the court reporter, please. 12 MS. CONWAY: Hi, guys. I'm Emily 13 Conway. That's E-m-i-l-y. And my last name is 14 C-o-n-w-a-y. 15So today, I will start off by expressing my 16 gratitude to the EPA for taking an important first 17 step to control methane emissions for oil and gas 18 sources. 19As I'm sure you are already aware, methane 20 is 86 times more capable of trapping heat than carbon 21 dioxide over a 20-year period. Essentially, that's 22 really bad. Right? We want to control it as much as 23 possible. 24 So by controlling this methane that's -- it 25 being emitted primarily by oil and gas, we are having**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 72 1 climate benefits. But we're also -- by limiting that 2 methane through this new rule, we would also limit 3 smog-forming pollutants and have positive health 4 effects. 5So I have a few nieces that I am absolutely 6 nuts about, and that's the reason I'm here today is 7 because future generations are really important to me. 8 And I want my nieces to be able to grow up in a place 9 that is safe for them. And if we continue treating 10 the world like we do now, you know, they might not 11 have the same opportunities that I've had to, you 12 know, enjoy our beautiful world. 13So as with everything, there's always room 14 for improvement. So, you know, I definitely 15 appreciate this first step. 16To let you know how I think the EPA can 17 strengthen this rule -- so please tighten the time 18 frame allowed to correct methane leaks. Six months is 19 a long time, and a great amount of methane could leak 20 into the atmosphere in that time frame. 21 So by shortening the time frame that you 22 give oil and gas producers to fix leaks when it could 23 be something that would be really simple to fix or 24 maybe it does require more time and effort, it's worth 25 it. Right?**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 73 1 And then please address -- as Erin said, 2 address existing oil and gas producers. Because if we 3 only address the new oil and gas drilling, then we're 4 not addressing the main problem. 5So we would also like for the new rule to 6 address compressors on the oil and gas sites. They 7 are a great source of emissions. And so if we're not 8 addressing them, we're missing an utterly big 9 opportunity to improve. 10 And the reason that this issue is so 11 important to Texans -- and welcome to Texas, if you're 12 not from here -- is that, as mentioned before, 30 13 percent of oil and gas that's produced in the U.S., it 14 happens here. 15So we're the ones that -- we're exposed to 16 all the methane that is vented, flared, leaked 17 anywhere that it's, you know, put out into the air, it 18 affects us first. And then it's going to affect 19 everybody else. Because this air is the same air 20 that's going to be being breathed, you know, all 21 across the world, all the way across the country. 22 So many of the cities in Texas, as well as 23 throughout the United States, are in nonattainment 24 zones. So we already have addressed -- you know, 25 we've already said, well, we're not really having**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 74 1 really good air quality. So we need to do everything 2 that we can to protect the air quality that we have 3 now so that it doesn't get worse. 4 And through this rule -- thank you so 5much -- we are to see improvements and get into 6 attainment. These nonattainment -- that means, hey, 7 guys, don't go out outside on those days where, you 8 know, you hear on the radio, ozone is very high. You 9 worry, you're dragging. You'll be, like, should I go 10 home? I don't really know whether I should do that or 11 not. So that's why the legal community cares. 12 So y'all have heard about Denton and their, 13 you know, desire to band fracking out of their city 14 limits. Whenever HB 40 came out, everybody was very 15 disappointed because they were being stripped of a 16 100-year tradition of concurrent regulation by cities 17 and states. 18 Usually, we work together. But the state 19 this time said, nope, we're not going to do it. And 20 so it showed the community that they have no local 21 control over oil and gas. And that's why we need the 22 EPA, and we appreciate the methane rules. So thank 23 you. 24 We just encourage the EPA to go a little bit 25 further by requiring fixed inspections, instead of**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 75 1 being based on previous performance. And we encourage 2 the EPA to shortage the required reaction time once a 3 leak has been detected. 4 And in closing, thank you for taking the 5 time to come down and listen to our public input and 6 for making the first steps for controlling methane and 7 protecting U.S. citizens against dangerous emissions 8 from oil and gas sources. Thank you. 9MR. ROBINSON: Thank you. 10 (Applause) 11 MR. ROBINSON: Sharon. 12 MS. SPIESS: Hi. My name is Sharon 13 Spiess, S-h-a-r-o-n S-p-i-e-s-s. 14 I want to start by acknowledging this 15 organization's efforts to control methane emissions. 16I live in Denton, Texas. And I'm here today 17 to support the EPA's efforts to create more stringent 18 rules for the reduction of greenhouse gases or 19 specifically the reduction, if not total elimination, 20 of methane and other VOCs that are leaking into the 21 atmosphere through hydraulic fracturing. 22 I will tell you right up front that I truly 23 believe that fracking is the worst environmental 24 disaster of our generation. I don't want to leave 25 this destructive legacy for future generations to deal**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 76 1 with. 2 I'm sure this panel will hear hundreds of 3more specific documented instances of the dangers that 4 methane and other VOCs have caused to the environment, 5 as well as the health and safety of those working on 6 and living near oil and gas wells. 7 We have all seen the countless videos of 8 the continuously leaking wells. We know about the 9 2,500-square-mile methane cloud that looms over New 10 Mexico that is manmade. We have seen the thousands of 11 flare vents in North Dakota and every other state in 12 this country that has producing oil and gas wells. 13As we know -- and we know that the same 14 scenario plays out all over this entire planet. The 15 oil and gas industry is only concerned about making 16profits with little or no regard for human and 17 environmental health. You guys go against them all 18 the time. You will know this. It's like a dinosaur 19 that just keeps trampling and desecrating whatever is 20 in its way. 21 The citizens of Denton, myself included, saw 22 firsthand how this industry will stop at nothing to 23 get what they want when our local fracking ban was 24 overturned at the state level by HB 40. 25As much as they spend on the Denton issue,**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 77 1 as they dubbed it, it is minuscule in comparison to 2 their efforts everywhere else in this country and 3 around the world. Their money coffers run deeper than 4 their wells, and they have no problem using them to 5 get what they want. 6Please remember these things I've stated, 7 along with all of the other testimonies that you will 8 hear today. I suspect you could easily add 1,000 9 other people for each of us testifying at the three 10 hearings across this country who feel the same way as 11 we do who are not able or willing to publicly voice 12 their opinions. 13We all want clean air to breathe. We want 14 our children and their grandchildren to live in a 15 cleaner environment than we're living in now. We want 16 the O&G and other industries to stop polluting our 17 air, our land and our waterways. We want to stop 18 relying on fossil fuels to power our vehicles, homes 19 and businesses and to move to the renewable energy 20 sources of wind and solar. 21 I respectfully ask you to make the proposed 22 changes even more stringent in every area that you 23 have outlined. Further reduce the noncompliance 24 timelines to correct issues. Make inspections more 25 frequently even if that business has been in**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 78 1 compliance in the past. 2 Show the citizens of this country and around 3 the world, for that fact, that this Agency is very 4 committed to the radical reduction of methane and VOC 5 leakages into the atmosphere, thus reducing the 6biggest manmade cause of greenhouse gases. And do it 7 on a more aggressive timeline than the current 8 proposals. Other countries have done it, and so can 9 we. 10 And just to add on from some of the 11 testimony that I have heard here, I really want to 12 reiterate the previous comments about the Texas 13 Railroad Commission and TCEQ. They are useless. They 14 are in the oil and gas industry's pocket. Everybody 15 knows it. The restrictions that are put on them, they 16 just don't care. They're in the oil and gas 17 companies' pocket. They're not helping us at all. 18 The two things that I saw in one of the 19 documents that you guys had online, which was the 20 summary proposed requirements for processes and 21 equipment at natural gas well sites, specifically, I 22 saw one statement that said, Any leaks found during 23 the surveys would have to be repaired within 15 days 24 unless the repair requires shutting down the 25 production. In that case, owner/operators would be**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 79 1 required to fix the leak at the next scheduled 2 shutdown. 3I absolutely do not agree with this. If 4 there's a leak, they need to fix it. They need to fix 5 within 15 days. I believe they need to fix it sooner 6 than that. They have the technology. You already 7 know that to repair these leaks, the cost is minuscule 8 compared to what they're doing. And the dangers of 9 the methane emissions and the other VOCs is too great 10 to our environment. 11 The next area that I saw was that the 12 proposed rule includes a sentence for minimizing 13 leaks. It says, If leaks are found from less than 14 1 percent of covered components during two consecutive 15 surveys, owner/operators may conduct the monitoring 16 survey yearly, instead of every six months. 17 I don't agree with this either. We have 18 heard previous testimony, and I think it should be 19 kept to three months or less. 20 I thank you for your time, and I appreciate 21 all of your efforts. 22 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you very much. 23(Applause) 24 MR. ROBINSON: At this point, we do not 25 have any additional cards. So we will, I guess, take**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 80 1 a break until we either receive more cards or -- I'll 2 tell you what. Let's take a five-minute break, and we 3 will see where we stand on cards. 4 (Recess taken at 11:25 to 11:31.) 5MR. ROBINSON: We only have one 6 speaker. Faith, you have five minutes. 7 MS. CHATHAM: Thank you so much. I am 8 Faith Chatham, and I am speaking on behalf of DFW 9 Regional Concerned Citizens. I'm a resident of 10 Arlington, Texas. And I am going to be reading it 11 because I basically have spent so much time reading 12 your rules that I couldn't get mine printed out. 13Thank you for hearing me today. I appreciate 14 the work you have done to be at this point in the 15 process. Methane does need to be included in the 16 regulations. New and modified sources should be 17 regulated. This is a very intermediate step. Thank 18 you for bringing it forward today so that these rule 19 changes which are approved can be implemented in the 20 very near future without waiting until you have 21 completed other ongoing studies, hearings and 22 evaluations necessary to propose those things which 23 will enable you to include changes to existing source 24 regulation. 25We must have air and water for civilization**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 81 1 to thrive. Our nation's natural resources can be 2 developed without exploiting every living thing which 3 depends on air to breathe and water to survive. 4 Attempts by some in Congress to deter the EPA 5 from doing its constitutional duty to preserve this 6 nation by interfering with the leadership of the EPA 7 and your scientists and support staff does not improve 8 the oil and gas industry or help this nation. 9I am going on record here stating that 10 instead of the head of the EPA being impeached in 11 response to your Agency presenting these rules, voters 12 should remove the congressional grandstanders who 13 attempt to hamper your Agency from efficiently and 14 effectively doing its job. 15I urge you to adopt these proposed rules and 16 for them to be implemented expediently. They are a 17 good intermediate step. I hope you are able to 18 release the proposed rules for completing and bringing 19 existing sources into compliance by the end of this 20 year. 21 The job is not complete, and there are still 22 serious holes which technology and implementing best 23 practices can close when rules are applied to existing 24 sources. 25As wells age and become less profitable,**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 82 1 their operators sometimes delay maintenance and 2 improvements that are essential for clean, safe 3 operation. Perhaps, these rules should require 4 operators to place funds in escrow while they're 5 really profitable to ensure that they are properly 6maintained when production or the price per barrel 7 drops. 8 I hope that in a few months, we will be 9 standing before you again commenting on the rest of 10 the changes and what should be made to protect current 11 and future residents of this planet. 12 When we are back again, I truly hope that 13 the document you present for review is much more 14 concise and includes rules for bringing existing 15 sources into alignment with these rules. The value of 16 your work is not measured by how many words on paper, 17 but how clearly you communicate the validity of your 18 argument and how easy you make it for people to 19 comprehend, evaluate and implement. 20 There is sound science behind the rule 21 changes you propose. One point that everyone in this 22 room will probably concur with me on is that 591 pages 23 of a proposal is too much, and it's too long. It 24 exceeds the length of the average number of pages in a 25 currently published nonfiction book by 291 pages.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 83 1 Yes. I printed out all 591 pages, and I read at least 2 400 of them. 3The rules are important for the survival of 4 civilization, so we need to make them as easy to 5 implement as possible and that we can understand. 6Regulating and insisting on measurement of 7 emissions, not just estimates, is important. You've 8 done that. We need to cut down the time frame in 9 which these problems are corrected. Giving them a 10 free hand to go to the next one is not enough. Do not 11 allow them to monitor themselves. And go down to 12 three months. Calling for frequent measurements is 13 important. 14 It's very frustrating when you have -- when 15 they always say, Oh, well, this is within our 16 allowables. That has always happened. We've got 17 an -- and in states such as Texas, it's essentially 18 important that y'all enforce and do not rely on the 19 TCEQ or our state legislature, to depend upon them 20 because many of these sources are in highly densely 21 populated areas. And the state legislature has 22 removed local controls and local oversight and reduced 23 the ordinances. 24 Thank you so much. Good job, folks. I will 25 be submitting this online.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 84 1 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. Thank you. 2 Okay. We have no additional cards at the 3moment, so we will stop again. 4 (Recess taken at 11:36 to 12:33.) 5MR. LARSON: Good afternoon. My name 6 is Darrin Larson, and I'm the chair of today's public 7 hearing. Thank you for coming today. 8 Joining me on the panel are Alex Macpherson 9 and Mark DeFigueiredo. We're here today to hear your 10 comments on the EPA's proposed rules relating to the 11 oil and natural gas sector. 12 The specific rules are 1) Oil and Natural 13 Gas Sector: Emission Standards for New and Modified 14 Sources; 2) Source Determination for Certain Emission 15 Units in the Oil and Natural Gas Sector and 3) Review 16 of the New Sources and Modifications in Indian 17 Country: Federal Implementation Plan for Managing Air 18 Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged in Oil and 19 Natural Gas Production in Indian Country. 20 EPA's administrators signed the proposed 21 rules on August 18th, 2015. 22 The proposed New Source Performance 23 Standards would establish methane and VOC standards 24 for hydraulically fractured wells and require 25 owners/operators to find and repair leaks. The**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 85 1 proposed rule also would extend emission reduction 2 requirements further downstream, covering equipment in 3 the natural gas transmission and storage segments of 4 the industry that was not regulated in the Agency's 5 2012 rules. 6The proposed Source Determination Rule 7 clarifies the EPA's air permitting rules as they apply 8 to the oil and natural gas industry. 9And we also are taking comments on the 10 proposed federal implementation plan to implement the 11 Federal Minor New Source Review Program in Indian 12 Country for oil and natural gas production. That 13 plan, known as a FIP, would be used instead of 14 site-specific minor New Source Review preconstruction 15 permits in Indian Country. It would incorporate 16 emissions limits and other requirements from six EPA 17 emissions standards, including the 2015 proposed 18 updates to the New Source Performance Standards on 19 which we are taking comment today. 20 If you would like more details on the 21 proposed rules, there are fact sheets available at the 22 registration desk. 23Before we get started, I would like to go 24 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules that 25 will help make today's hearing run smoothly.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 86 1 So first, please be sure you have checked in 2 at the registration desk, even if you are not planning 3 to speak today. And if you signed up to speak online 4 or by phone but haven't told us that you're here, 5 please step out to the registration desk and let the 6 EPA staff know that you have arrived. 7 I will call speakers up in pairs. When your 8 name is called, please come to the speakers' table at 9 the front of the room. 10 When I call on you to speak, please state 11 your name and spell it for the court reporter who's up 12 here. Your comments will be transcribed and included 13 in the record of comments on the proposed rule. 14 It is important that you tell us which rule, 15 or rules, you are speaking about. 16Each speaker will have five minutes to give 17 comments. We have a timer, which is actually these 18 yellow and red cards, to help you know how much time 19 you have left to speak. When you see a yellow card 20 come up, that means you have one minute left. And red 21 means you're out of time, and that means you -- it's 22 time to stop speaking then. 23When you are finished speaking, please 24 remain at the table until the person next to you has 25 completed his or her testimony. We're here to listen**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 87 1 to you today. However, a panel member may ask a 2 question to clarify your comments. I will then call 3 up the next pair of speakers and so on. 4 If you have brought a written copy of your 5 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 6 registration desk before you leave today. We will put 7 any written comments submitted today in the official 8 docket for the proposed rules. 9We also have comment cards available at the 10 registration desk if you would like to submit 11 additional written comments today. 12 If you want to comment in writing later, 13 stop by the materials table near the registration desk 14 and pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 15 written comments. Comments must be received by 16November 17th, 2015. 17 Let me assure you that the EPA gives just as 18 much consideration to comments we receive in writing 19 as we do to comments that we receive at public 20 hearings like this one. So if you have more comments 21 that you would like to provide to EPA, please submit 22 them by the comment period deadline, November 17th, 23 2015. Your comments will be reviewed. 24 If you have any questions during the day, 25 please see the staff at the registration desk and**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 88 1 someone will assist you. 2 And thank you again for taking the time 3 today to share your comments on the EPA's proposal. 4 So let's get started. 5Is Tim Carson here? Connie Gossoman? 6All right. Matthew Holcomb? Okay, Matthew. 7 And Shana McLaughlin. 8 Matthew Holcomb, if you would like to begin. 9 If you can spell your name, please, and spell it for 10 the court reporter. 11 MR. HOLCOMB: My name is Matthew 12 Holcomb. It's M-a-t-t-h-e-w H-o-l-c-o-m-b. 13I've come here from Norman, Oklahoma to 14 speak some in support of EPA's proposed methane 15 pollution standards for the oil and gas industry. 16I have seen some of the damage this has done 17 in and around Oklahoma where we have a big lack of 18 monitoring. I have called in air quality complaints 19 on a number of oil wells. These are older wells, 20 which I understand is not covered by the new rules. 21 But that is a mistake, in my opinion, a big mistake 22 because these older wells are deteriorating. The 23 infrastructure of the pipes are corroding. 24 It's -- in Oklahoma there's just so many of 25 these aging orphaned well sites that will continue to**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 89 1 pollute as long as they remain unplugged. And the 2 state has difficulty forcing operators to get this 3 done. Our Corporation Commission is basically 4 pressured by the oil and gas companies not to enforce 5 rules in plugging and abandonment. 6So I have filed complaints with our Oklahoma 7 Department of Environmental Qualities -- Air Quality 8 Division. And the response I get is very troubling to 9me. They will -- I spend a little time on the phone 10 with them and ask them to come out and inspect the 11 site because of the fumes. 12 I have been out driving down the road, and I 13 can smell a couple of oil wells for probably half a 14 mile away. I can smell this in the air. And so I 15 say, hey, you know, I'll ask the official who I speak 16 with over the phone or by e-mail if they can come out 17 and make an appointment to inspect this well site. 18 Because it's difficult to take some of these 19 folks at their word, I asked to be present, you know, 20 while they do the inspection. And I am not given any 21 kind of consideration for that. I ask them, okay, if 22 you don't want me to come, will you let a member of 23 the media accompany you for this? And it's the same 24 response. There is just no engagement in that. 25And when I finally get a response back from**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 90 1 the Agency, I ask, you know, okay, so what method did 2 you use when you went out to test for -- what 3 equipment did you use to test for air quality? Oh, we 4 just went out there and smelled around. We didn't 5 really smell anything. So, I mean, that's 6 unacceptable. 7 I mean, I was out here in Norman at a well 8 very near the highway, which is why I smelled it. So 9 it's just right on the highway. And so I wasn't 10 trespassing, but I got close enough for it to give me 11 a very pounding headache that lasted for a good 20 12 minutes. 13And I have tried very carefully not to go 14 near too many of these sites since then because I 15 really was concerned that I had been exposed to 16 something like hydrofluoric sulfide, which I 17 understand can be fatal in very low concentrations. 18 I have heard industry people tell me that 19 there are towns in Oklahoma that they can just drive 20 through -- you know, just drive through town, and 21 they're wearing their H2 monitors, you know, their 22 personal safety -- their personal protective 23 equipment. 24 And their personal safety monitors are going 25 off a hundred parts of a million just as they're**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 91 1 driving through a town where there happens to be, you 2 know, lots of refining equipment for oil and gas 3 infrastructure. And that's very concerning to me. 4 So I am here to express my appreciation to 5 the EPA for carrying forth these rules. I think there 6 are more things that need to be done. And I do think 7 it's a big mistake not to make these rules apply to 8 older oil and gas wells because that is where a big 9 source of the pollution is coming from and refining 10 plants, tank farms. 11 I was up in Tulsa on Sunday just driving 12 through downtown Tulsa, and I was just astonished. It 13 was a tank farm or a refining station, and it's -- you 14 can just -- the smell is overpowering. And to think 15 this is in downtown Tulsa. There's public housing 16 units nestled all around. It's a clear example of 17 environmental racism, in my opinion, to see that and 18 an injustice. 19MR. LARSON: Unfortunately, you're out 20 of time. 21 MR. HOLCOMB: Thank you. 22 MR. LARSON: Thank you, Mr. Holcomb. 23State your name and spell it for the court 24 reporter. 25MS. MCLAUGHLIN: S-h-a-n-a**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 92 1 M-c-L-a-u-g-h-l-i-n. 2 Okay. Hi. My name is Shana, and I'm here 3 with the Sierra Club. I'm from Oklahoma City, 4 Oklahoma. And I'm basically here just basically in 5 support of the bill that is going to lower the methane 6pollution. 7 Because I do live in Oklahoma City, and so I 8 do have to deal with what everyone else in Oklahoma 9 City deals with because we do rely heavily on the oil 10 and natural gas. And we -- and with that -- we just 11 rely on the administration. 12 And with that, relying on the administration 13 does comes with consequences -- relying on 14 administration and that is, of course, the smog and 15 driving through the cities and the towns and smelling 16 all of this and seeing all of -- like, all of the 17 pollution that it has caused and also the way that 18 people's lives are going to have to adjust to it. 19 Because they're going to have to say, well, my kid has 20 asthma. But that's fine, and I'm just going to give 21 my kid some medication and call it a day. 22 And also, we -- I just think that -- and, 23 like, we just need transparency with the oil and gas 24 administration. A lot of people don't really know a 25 lot about the oil and gas administration because**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 93 1 there's not a lot of transparency. They don't come up 2 and talk to their neighbor and, like, hey, guys, just 3 so you know, I'm about to ruin maybe your well, 4 perhaps, or, like, ruin the air you're breathing, just 5 so you know. Like, these are the things. And just -- 6 I just have a problem with that whole ordeal. 7 But my main concern is just for the kids and 8 for the older adults and for even just people in 9 between. But then you have kids in the womb to have 10 to suffer with it as well. And they haven't even come 11 into the world to have to suffer with the reality 12 that, oh, I'm going to come in and I might have maybe 13 a birth defect or maybe asthma or maybe anything 14 because of something that people could have regulated, 15 something that someone could have helped and could 16 have changed and helped fix. 17 And, yeah, just the threat -- it's just the 18 threat to just actually having a real life and living 19 it out to the fullest of our abilities. And I would 20 just like to be focused only -- and instead of just 21 talking about, does this problem exist -- and, like, 22 that's why you're here. In Oklahoma especially, does 23 the problem exist? Does the problem exist? 24 And I no longer want to hear that. I only 25 want to hear, how can we fix this problem because it's**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 94 1 already been proven that it exists. And we just need 2 to know how to fix it. 3And I truly, truly want to say that what 4 y'all are doing is so necessary. It's very necessary. 5And I really appreciate it. And that is something 6 that -- I can say that you do have a lot of 7 transparency with what you're doing. You are 8 educating people as you go as the steps are taken. 9So I will -- I just want to thank you-all for 10 that. And I know that we can change the course of 11 climate change with knowing exactly what we're doing 12 with methane emissions. And that can really, really 13 put us back on the right track with all of that. 14 That's all. Thank you. 15MR. LARSON: Thank you. 16I will call the next two up. Ann Bornholdt, 17 yes, and Lori Russell. 18 MS. BORNHOLDT: My name is Ann 19 Bornholdt, A-n-n B-o-r-n-h-o-l-d-t. And I am here to 20 speak about the emissions standards for the -- 21 Natural gas has been called a clean fuel in 22 part because it emits a lot more carbon dioxide than 23 other fuels, such as coal. But we have learned that 24 maybe natural gas isn't so clean and that its 25 production and distribution has problems.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 95 1 What does the EPA propose? It's proposed 2 nationwide standards to address methane and Volatile 3 Organic Compounds for new and modified sources. And I 4 agree with the previous speaker that it would be great 5 if it -- if these new rules affected existing sources 6 as well. But something is better than nothing, so -- 7 The EPA has also proposed guidelines for 8 existing oil and gas sources in ozone attainment areas 9 to help restore healthy air to those communities 10 because methane contributes to smog. And this is an 11 important area for me. My daughter has asthma, so 12 it's, in my home, an issue. 13Available technologies have already been 14 deployed successfully in oil and gas producing states 15 like Wyoming and Colorado that will require sources to 16 find and repair leaks, capture natural gas from 17 hydraulically fractured oil wells, limit emissions 18 from pneumatic controllers and pumps and then limit 19 emissions from compressors. 20 And why has the EPA proposed these new 21 rules? Currently, there are no national limits on 22 emissions for oil and gas operations. These rules 23 protect public health, as I mentioned before. They 24 curve emissions of smog, Volatile Organic Compounds 25 and carcinogens, like benzene and other toxic**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 96 1 pollutants. 2 These toxic pollutants are linked to cancer, 3 respiratory issues, asthma, neurological damage and 4 then further, they're harmful for our communities and 5 our workers. 6Workers in the oil and gas industry are 7 affected by these compounds and by these emissions. 8 And workers in the gas industry, since they are much 9 closer in proximity to these emissions and they have 10 prolonged contact are affected much greater than other 11 communities. 12 And just the other day in Oklahoma, it was 13 publicized about an oilfield worker who was found 14 slumped over a tank hatch of an oil well and that his 15 death was one of at least nine that OSHA has linked to 16 toxic vapors at oil production sites. And all nine 17 men found dead over hatches or crude oil tanks as they 18 were measuring them as part of their job. So these 19 emissions are really toxic. 20 Methane is one of the most significant 21 sources of climate change. That is important to me. 22 In the first two decades after it's released, methane 23 pollution is more than 80 times more potent than 24 carbon dioxide. So by emitting just a little bit of 25methane, these emissions are greatly accelerating**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 97 1 climate change. So it's not -- natural gas is not 2 quite as clean as we thought it might be. 3Methane emissions last year in the U.S. had 4 the same negative impact on the climate as the annual 5 carbon emissions of roughly half the cars in the U.S. 6 The largest source of industrial emissions of methane 7 is the oil and gas industry. 8 What about cost? That's always something we 9 want to consider. The U.S. loses over $1 billion 10 worth of natural gas every year through methane leaks 11 and intentional releases, such as flaring throughout 12 the oil and gas system, enough natural gas to meet the 13 heating and cooling needs of over five million 14 American homes. 15A recent ICF International study estimated 16 companies could cut methane emissions 40 percent or 17 more for about a quarter of 1 percent of the price of 18 the gas they're selling. So an additional penny on 19 about $3 worth of gas. So it's not free, but it's 20 relatively insignificant. And we would have much 21 better air to breathe. 22 I am not Catholic, but I agree with the 23 Pope. Frequently, no measures are taken until 24 people's health has been deleteriously affected and 25 that humanities' reckless behavior pushes the planet**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 98 1 to a perilous breaking point. 2 These standards are a response to health and 3 environmental problems caused by methane emissions and 4 will force polluters, rather than our communities, to 5 pay for the cost of the emissions. 6These standards could prevent thousands of 7 asthma attacks, heart attacks and respiratory issues 8 plus smog pollution while curbing the rate of climate 9 change, using job-creating, low cost for American-made 10 technology. 11 Thank you. 12 MR. LARSON: Thank you. 13Do we have anyone in the room that's waiting 14 to speak at this time? We can do both of you right 15 now if you're ready. Thank you. 16MR. FOSTER: Thank you. My name is 17 David Foster, D-a-v-i-d F-o-s-t-e-r. I'm here to 18 speak on behalf of Clean Water Action. Clean Water 19Action is a national nonprofit environment 20 organization. And we have been active in Texas since 21 1988. We have over 50,000 members generally located 22 in the metropolitan areas. 23I'm here to speak on behalf of the methane 24 pollution standard. If you want, I can site the 25 docket number. Do you need that? It's Docket No.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 99 1 EPA-HQ-OAR-2010-0505. 2 MR. LARSON: Thank you. 3MR. FOSTER: So why does Clean Water 4 Action support this step by the EPA? Well, as we all 5 know, methane is a potent greenhouse gas emission, 6pound per pound, more than 80 times as potent, at 7 least in the short run, as carbon emissions. 8 And, of course, climate change is something 9 we need to get our arms around. And we're not going 10 to be able to do that unless we also get our arms 11 around methane emissions. 12 So methane is leaked or vented by oil and 13 gas operations with virtually no oversight or 14 regulations currently. Oil and gas operations are the 15 largest single contributor to methane emissions, and 16 these leaks are like an invisible oil spill happening 17 every day. And the oil and gas operation is getting 18 away with it. 19So these emissions -- or rather these rules 20 will reduce emissions by some 40 to 45 percent by 21 2025, and it's an important step in the right 22 direction. 23Another benefit from these rules will be 24 that the controls that the oil and gas operation will 25 have to install will not only control methane, but**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 100 1 also other smog and soot-forming pollutants and 2 hazardous emissions. And we will see public health 3 benefits. 4 And Texas, in particular -- it seems like 5 Dallas and San Antonio, which are close to fracking 6 areas, have serious air quality issues already. I do 7 want to stress, as others have, that this is only a 8 first step. At best, this will just flatten the 9 growth in methane emissions. By 2025 most emissions 10 will still come from existing facilities, so it's not 11 going to be a final or complete solution. 12 We do encourage you to expand these 13 regulations. If not now, then as soon as you can. I 14 don't want to slow these necessarily regulations from 15 happening, but I think it's important to follow up and 16 regulate the industry across the board to existing 17 sources. 18 And I just want to say that we really need 19 the EPA here in Texas because Texas is -- the Texas 20 regulatory agencies have not had an appetite to do a 21 serious job of controlling pollution in the state. We 22 need a federal backstop. We are a federal nation. We 23 are one nation. 24 And I think that is an important point 25 because we live in a state where our elected officials**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 101 1 like to sue the EPA -- it's almost a hobby -- any time 2 the EPA wants to take an important step to protect the 3 environment, for example, for clean water. 4 So we really need the EPA to stand firm on 5 this. We are doing our door-to-door canvass 6 operations asking our members to write letters to the 7 EPA, so you will be receiving a big stack of letters 8 from Texas Clean Water Action members in support of 9 this rule. 10 And finally, I just want to say that it's 11 really important to hear these stories, such as the 12 ones you heard from the people from Oklahoma. I think 13 that it's great that you guys did this over here in 14 Dallas so not only the Texans come and speak their 15minds. 16And Texas, of course, is responsible for 17 some 30 percent of methane emissions. I heard the 18 discussion about folks in a neighboring state like 19 Oklahoma, which also has a very powerful and big 20 polluting oil and gas industry. And they are able to 21 come and comment. And those stories are just 22 heartbreaking. 23I was listening in the other room and heard 24 a woman talk about her child with asthma. I have a 25 brother in Denton who also suffers from asthma. So**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 102 1 this is not simply a question of facts and figures and 2 numbers. It really does affect people's lives and 3 public health. 4 And so once again, I thank you for coming up 5 with this rule. I'm hopeful that you go through with 6 it and go beyond it so that life can be sustainable. 7 So thank you. 8 MR. LARSON: Thank you. 9MS. HARLAN: Hi. My name is Colata, 10 C-o-l-a-t-a, Harlan, H-a-r-l-a-n. 11 I am the conservation chair for Oklahoma 12 Sierra Club. I'm from Hulen, Oklahoma. And my family 13 is very relieved that the Environmental Protection 14 Agency has proposed the first protections ever to curb 15methane and expand regulations on VOCs by having the 16New Source Performance Standards for oil and natural 17 source category. So I'm -- number two. 18 Thank you for the EPA's commitment to being 19 present in Obama's goal to reduce methane pollution by 20 40 to 45 percent by 2025. The oil and gas industry 21 loses almost eight million tons of methane through 22 unrepaired leaks and intentional releases every year. 23This much natural gas could power 6.5 million 24 American homes. Yet, this excessive waste continues, 25 even though low-cost solutions could eliminate at**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 103 1 least half of this pollution. 2 We know that methane's heat tracking 3 potential is 82 times greater than carbon dioxide over 4 a 20-year period. We know that methane and toxic VOCs 5 leaking from oil and gas sites form smog and harm air 6 quality endangering all the people in neighboring 7 communities, often minority communities where it's 8 convenient to locate this kind of pollution discharge. 9We know that the fossil fuel industry will 10 fight aggressively against any regulations that we 11 reduce greenhouse gases, emissions and protect air 12 quality because regulations might reduce their 13 profits. 14 What's simply shocking to me and what I 15 didn't know, Ann Bornholdt referred to; and that's the 16 industry's blatant disregard for the safety of their 17 own employees and contractors when it comes to 18 exposure to volatile hydrocarbons and volatile organic 19 compounds. 20 The man that Ann referred to is named David 21 Simpson. He had five children and a wife who lived in 22 South Jordan, Utah. And he was killed at a well site 23 outside Ardmore, Oklahoma on March 20th, 2014. And 24 the other workers found him slumped over and dead over 25 the actual storage hatch like Ann said apparently**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 104 1 killed by a blast of petrochemical vapors from that 2 storage tank, according to federal workers' safety 3 investigators. 4 I say apparently because Oklahoma officials 5 didn't do an autopsy or test for petro exposure, that 6means that his widow Cindy Simpson can't collect on 7 her husband's insurance policy, according to the 8 information that I received, because there's no 9 documented case of death. 10 The last speaker is right. Our officials in 11 Oklahoma at the state level are bought and sold by the 12 oil and gas industry. We need a strong federal 13 presence to at least balance the officials who are 14 bought and paid for by the industry. 15The National Institute for Occupational 16 Safety and Health said that David Simpson's death is 17 one of nine linked to toxic vapors, vapors that are in 18 our community as well. 19The volatile hydrocarbons, or VOCs, in shale 20 crude, like that in Oklahoma's Woodford Shale is known 21 to bubble up, collect in storage tanks like those from 22 our shale formation. That's why shale oil is more 23 likely to explode in railcars. In high concentrations 24 these vapors can asphyxiate people apparently or 25 disrupts their heart's rhythm leading to heart**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 105 1 failure. 2 The OSHA inspector who inspected David 3 Simpson's death marked his report unacceptable in 4 capital letters. He added that XTO, the oil company 5 where David Simpson was contracting, provided gas 6meters to their employees, just not to contractors. 7 And their method for dealing with safety in this area 8 was to tell their workers to stand up upwind. 9Despite new technology that makes it cheaper 10 and easier to detect methane, the oil and gas industry 11 will, no doubt, send lobbyists and attorneys scurrying 12 here to the hearing today. They are paid to oppose 13 EPA's sensible cost-effective proposal to reduce 14 methane, as well as regulate VOCs. 15I am here as a volunteer. I took a day off 16 work. Nobody paid me to be here. I'm here because, 17 like the EPA, I care about people's lives that are at 18 stake. 19We know also that the -- when we compare 20 compliance cost to monetized benefits, according to 21 the publication that you guys put in the Federal 22 Register, there is actually a financial benefit of 23 35- to $42 million in 2020 and 120- to 150 million in 24 2025, according to Page 23 of the 591-page document. 25You're doing the right thing by taking steps**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 106 1 to cut methane and better regulate VOCs. We just ask 2 that you apply it to existing well sites as well. 3Thank you for coming to Dallas. Any time 4 you're welcome in Oklahoma City as well. 5MR. LARSON: Thank you. 6Do we have anyone else in the room that's 7 waiting to speak? 8 MS. WALLY: Liz, L-i-z, Wally, 9W-a-l-l-y. 10 And I am not coming with scientific or even 11 personal stories. But I am coming from two points of 12 view. I was on the Dallas Planning Commission when we 13 did the most recent gas drilling ordinance here, and 14 that experience taught me a certain number of things. 15The other thing is I have been an activist 16 in the field of money and politics for the last almost 17 ten years, and those go together. 18 So these are my points. I see -- I am 19 supportive of what the -- what you-all are suggesting. 20 Although, I go along with everyone else in suggesting 21 that it needs to go that one step further. 22 Because otherwise, as someone asked online 23 on the streaming up there, So will this affect, you 24 know, any of us already living with it? And the 25 answer, of course, is no, unless there is some sort of**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 107 1 change to what you do propose. 2 What I learned -- and I think this sounds 3 simplistic, but you probably know what I am talking 4 about -- what I learned on the Planning Commission is 5 that applicants are like teenagers and the Planning 6 Commission or the Zoning Commission or the EPA, or 7 whatever, is like the parent. 8 And corporations have absolute right to push 9 as hard as they can for the profits that they want to 10 make for their shareholders. But in a democracy, in a 11 health democracy, there's a balance. If there is no 12 balance, if there's no parent who says -- you know, 13 can I come in at 2:00? No. It has to be 11:00. 14 Well, okay, 12:30. Right? If that doesn't happen, if 15 the government doesn't take that role, then our 16 community has been -- lost its balance. It's lost its 17 safety. 18 And our current world right now, because of 19 the omni present money that is everywhere, there are 20 only a few places that a citizen can go. One is a 21 federal Agency if you live in any state like Texas 22 where money has -- it's bought by oil and gas or 23 courts. And that's a fight we're fighting right now 24 because the courts are getting bought as well. 25So my point is simply that it has gotten**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 108 1 forgotten, the role of the regulatory bodies. They 2 should be there in the same way that the marketing 3 people, the people in the free market are there. If 4 that doesn't balance, everybody's harmed. As in the 5 family, if you didn't balance your teenagers, 6 everyone, right, everyone suffers from that. 7 So what -- I'm basically telling you 8 something you probably know. But not enough people 9 appreciate about your side of the table. When I was 10 on that side of the table, one of the ways that I saw 11 the effect of money was in the lobbyists. 12 And the fact that I was just a person, I 13 agreed to do this free job that was, you know, 14 time-consuming. I had no credentials for it. No one 15 asked me to be an expert in any of those fields, so 16 whether it was the tattoo parlor on one day or the 17 huge development or oil and gas drilling with pages 18 and pages of regulations. 19So the weight, of course, was on the paid 20 lobbyists who just came in and said, Here, here's the 21 way, you know, it should be written. It's all written 22 right, et cetera. We were lucky. We had volunteers 23 and some paid people who gave us the other side, which 24 gave us a chance to look a little at it. And we came 25 up with a fairly progressive decision here in Dallas.**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 109 1 But that's when I realized what that money 2 does. Everyone who was coming talking to us was doing 3 it as people have been here on their own time. 4 So we appreciate what you have done. We 5 need you to do more, especially in a state where our 6 state is not doing it for us and we're bought by oil 7 and gas. Thank you. 8 MR. LARSON: State your name and spell 9 it for the court reporter. 10 Let's take a break for about 15 minutes. 11 (Recess taken at 2:06 to 2:31.) 12 MR. LARSON: So again, you have five 13minutes. We will hold up the yellow card in four 14 minutes and the red card for five minutes. 15And if you could start and state your name 16 and then spell it for the court reporter. 17 MS. CARSON: Okay. 18 MR. LARSON: Thank you. 19MS. CARSON: My name is Tammie Carson, 20 T-a-m-m-i-e C-a-r-s-o-n. And I have been a resident 21 of Arlington, Texas for 40 years. 22 And I got involved with a group called 23 Livable Arlington because the fracking in Arlington is 24 out of control. We have 96 square miles in Arlington, 25 and we have over 400 gas wells. And there's a**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 110 1 possibility of 900 more wells being drilled in 2 Arlington. 3There are three pad sites within a mile of 4 my house. And the real reason I'm here today is this. 5 These are my grandkids. They live with me. And they 6 have chronic headaches, upper respiratory infections, 7 nosebleeds. It's -- and it happens all the time. 8 It's a regular occurrence. 9We need better regulations. We need 10 stricter standards. We can see the air we breathe. 11 That's not okay. There's been a lot of good, really 12 great testimony here today with personal experiences 13 and statistics about the dangers of fracking regarding 14 our health and the collapse of our climate. And you 15 have the power to effect change. 16I'm asking you, please, don't be bullied by 17 the oil and gas companies. What if this was your back 18 yard, and you were watching your family suffer? 19 Please do the right thing. 20 Thank you. That's all I have. 21 MR. LARSON: Thank you. 22 (Applause) 23MS. GOSNELL: What she said, I also -- 24 MR. LARSON: Would you mind stating 25 your name and spell it for the court reporter?**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 111 1 MS. GOSNELL: Oh, I'm sorry. 2 MR. LARSON: That's okay. 3MS. GOSNELL: My name is Connie Gosnell 4 spelled G-o-s-n-e-l-l. 5I live in Arlington, and I also belong to 6 the group called Livable Arlington. And I want to 7 thank you guys for giving us the opportunity to 8 comment on the rules. 9These are my grandkids, and they're 10 listening to me. I am doing this because I do want to 11 leave a planet for them that is healthy. 12 So anyhow, we appreciate the EPA taking this 13 critical first step to reduce methane pollution from 14 oil and gas facilities. Methane is an extremely 15 potent greenhouse gas. Over a 20-year period, it is 16 85 times more powerful than carbon dioxide. 30 17 percent of U.S. oil and gas production comes from 18 Texas, which means a large share of methane leaks, 19methane waste happens in this state. 20 These new rules are also important to our 21 health because the required controls will reduce other 22 toxic air pollution that's released with methane. It 23 will cut admissions of VOCs and smog-forming 24 pollutants. 25The Dallas/Fort Worth area where Arlington**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 112 1 is has been in a nonattainment of EPA's smog standards 2 for a very long time. It has the highest rate of 3 childhood asthma in the country. These rules will 4 also reduce emissions of compounds like benzene, a 5 Category 1 carcinogen that is serious -- that is a 6 serious threat to the public. 7 The Dallas/Fort Worth area would experience 8 great progress from this rule in cleaning up ground 9 level ozone. Texas regulators have not shown a 10 willingness to regulate methane pollution. The EPA's 11 rulemaking is sorely needed in this state. 12 A recent bill, HB 40, has stripped a city's 13 power to regulate oil and gas drilling, leaving us at 14 the mercy of state agencies that have not done their 15 job. 16These rules only cover new and modified 17 infrastructure, but existing sources are a major 18 source of this problem. The U.S. cannot meet its 19 international greenhouse gas reduction targets without 20 cutting methane from oil and gas sources by 40 to 45 21 percent from 2012 levels by the year 2025. In order 22 to reach those targets, the EPA must regulate existing 23 oil and gas facilities. 24 So I urge you, the EPA, to extend these 25 rules to existing sources as well. The Agency's**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 113 1 actions will help determine what kind of future my 2 grandchildren will have. It is our responsibility to 3 take every step possible to slow down climate 4 disruption which would leave them with a very 5 difficult life and a devastated planet. 6For all of our children and our 7 grandchildren, I urge you to take this in stronger 8 steps to slow down the greenhouse gas emissions. 9 Thank you. 10 (Applause) 11 MR. LARSON: Marilyn. 12 MS. HAMAKER: Thank you. My name is 13 Marilyn Hamaker. I live here in Dallas. I have been 14 here for 30 years. 15When I started -- when I moved here 30 years 16 ago and started teaching, I never had a child with 17 asthma. We didn't even hear the word. And by the 18 time I retired a few years ago, within -- and I taught 19 little eight-year-olds -- three or four every year 20 would have their inhalers in their locker. And they 21 would have to jump up every so often and run to their 22 locker and get their inhaler. So that's just a, you 23 know, personal up-front example of what's going on. 24 Before the last legislature met, there were 25 over 300 communities in Texas that had passed**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 114 1 regulations regarding fracking within their 2 communities. And as soon as the legislature met, it 3 was decided that communities could no longer make 4 these local decisions. 5This is the very mantra that our 6politicians, in Texas especially, have been talking 7 about: local control, local control. Well, what 8 happened to local control when it went up against the 9money interest? Local control was suddenly flipped on 10 its head. 11 So cities were stripped of their ability to 12 have any input into what kind of pollution they had. 13And so we -- you know, we got squished from the top 14 down. And then the same people that stripped us of 15 our ability to monitor our communities are the same 16 ones that have been making a career out of fighting 17 EPA. 18 You're probably well-aware that our governor 19 has initiated in his career since he started as 20 attorney general dozens and dozens of lawsuits against 21 EPA for, you know, all of the regulations. 22 So you-all are our last hope. We have been 23 stripped of our political power locally. So please 24 save us. That's what I am asking for: stronger, more 25 stringent regulations so that, you know, we can live,**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 115 1 just plain old live. Thank you. 2 MR. LARSON: Thank you. 3Could you spell your name? 4 MS. HAMAKER: H-a-m-a-k-e-r. 5MR. LARSON: Thank you. 6So we're going to take a break. And they 7 will let us know if we're going to be back. 8 (End of proceedings at 2:40 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25**8f20bd80-bfbf-45f3-98d7-78003ba4203cElectronically signed by kendra rowland (001-374-550-5616)** 

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 116 

## A U T HENT I C C O P

Y T h

e or i g i n

a

l c er t

i f

ie d E- T ra ns c

r

i p t f

i le wa s el e

c

t

r

o

ni c

al

ly s i g n

ed u

sin g R e

a

l L

eg a

l te c

hn o

lo

gy

. 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 I, KENDRA ROWLAND, CSR No. 5500, Certified 3 Shorthand Reporter, certify; 4 That the foregoing proceedings were taken before 5me at the time and place therein set forth. 6That the testimony of the witnesses made at the 7 time were recorded stenographically by me and were 8 thereafter transcribed; 9That the foregoing is a true and correct 10 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken. 11 I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws 12 of Texas that the foregoing is true and correct. 13Dated this ______ day of _________________, 2015. 14 15__________________________________ Kendra Rowland, Texas CSR No. 5500 16Expiration Date: 12/31/15 Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 17 500 North Brand Boulevard, 3rd Fl. Glendale, CA 91203 18 (800) 288-3376 Firm Registration No. 32 19Expiration Date: 12/31/15 20 21 22 23 24 25