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THE SHAME OF IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS

JOINT HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH, 

GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND 

INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS

AND THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

FEBRUARY 26, 2015

Serial No. 114–16

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

MATT SALMON, Arizona 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

PAUL COOK, California 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

CURT CLAWSON, Florida 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin 

DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan 

LEE M. ZELDIN, New York 

TOM EMMER, Minnesota 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

AMI BERA, California 

ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania

AMY PORTER, Chief of Staff THOMAS SHEEHY, Staff Director

JASON STEINBAUM, Democratic Staff Director 

(III)

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH, GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND

INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

CURT CLAWSON, Florida 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

TOM EMMER, Minnesota 

KAREN BASS, California 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

AMI BERA, California

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

CURT CLAWSON, Florida 

DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan 

LEE M. ZELDIN, New York 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania 

(V)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

Mr. Shayan Arya, Central Committee Member, Constitutionalist Party of 

Iran (Liberal Democrat) ....................................................................................... 9

Mr. Mohsen Sazegara, president, Research Institute on Contemporary Iran .... 20

Mr. Anthony Vance, director, U.S. Baha’i Office of Public Affairs ...................... 24

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

Mr. Shayan Arya: Prepared statement .................................................................. 13

Mr. Mohsen Sazegara: Prepared statement .......................................................... 22

Mr. Anthony Vance: Prepared statement .............................................................. 26

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 46

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 47

Mr. Mohsen Sazegara: Proposals ........................................................................... 48

(1)

THE SHAME OF IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS 

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2015

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,

GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The committees met, pursuant to notice, at 2 o’clock p.m., in 

room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H. 

Smith (chairman of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, 

Global Human Rights, and International Organizations) presiding. 

Mr. SMITH. The subhearing of the joint subcommittees will come 

to order, and good afternoon to everybody. 

At a time when the administration seems keen to reach a nuclear accord that relies at least to some extent on trust, although 

there are some verification aspects to it, with the Iranian regime 

and perhaps even a de facto collaboration in the fight against ISIS, 

it is wise to consider and scrutinize the dismal human rights record 

of this country which we are currently conducting negotiations 

with. 

How they treat their own people is illustrative of how they see 

and will treat outsiders. This hearing provides a critical examination of human rights in Iran, which is important and necessary in 

its own right, and also places in context the administration’s efforts 

toward a nuclear deal. 

According to the report by the U.N. Special Rapporteur on 

Human Rights in Iran, between July 2013 and June 2014, at least 

852 people were executed in Iran. Shockingly, some of those executed were children under the age of 18. Iranian human rights activists place the number of people executed by the regime at 1,181. 

The current Department of State human rights report states that 

Iranian human rights violations include disappearances; cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment; mistreatment of prisoners including judicially sanctioned amputation and flogging; rape; politically 

motivated violence and repression; harsh and life-threatening conditions in detention and prison facilities, with instances of death in 

custody; arbitrary arrests and lengthy pretrial detention, sometimes incommunicado. 

While the Iranian Constitution grants equal rights to all ethnic 

minorities and allows for minority languages to be used in the 

media and in schools, minorities do not enjoy equal rights and the 

regime consistently denies their right to use their language in 

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school. In addition, a 1985 law prohibits non-Shi’a ethnic minorities 

from fully participating in civic life. That law and its associated 

provisions make full access of employment, education and other 

areas conditional on a devotion to the Islamic Republic and the tenets of the Shi’a Islam. 

The regime disproportionately targets minority groups including 

Kurds, Arabs, Azeris, and others, for arbitrary arrest, prolonged 

detention, and physical abuse. These groups report political and socioeconomic discrimination particularly in their access to economic 

aid, business licenses, university admissions, permission to publish 

books, and housing and land rights. 

Because of the severe religious freedom abuses, our Government 

has designated Iran as a Country of Particular Concern since 1999, 

each year. Frequently, the arrest and harassment of members of 

religious minorities has continued following a significant increase 

in 2012. The government severely restricts religious freedom, and 

there have been reports of imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and discrimination based on those faith beliefs. 

There has been continued reports of government charging religious and ethnic minorities with ‘‘enmity against God,’’ ‘‘anti-Islamic propaganda,’’ or vague national security crimes for their religious activities. Those reportedly arrested on religious grounds face 

poor prison conditions and treatment, as with most prisoners of 

conscience. 

One of the imprisoned on religious grounds is Pastor Saeed 

Abedini, a U.S. citizen and father of two—Rebekkah and Jacob—

and a Christian imprisoned in Iran because of his, and only because of, his faith. Pastor Abedini was imprisoned by the Iranian 

regime nearly 1,000 days ago when members of the Revolutionary 

Guard pulled him off a bus and then placed him under house arrest. He later was taken away in chains to Evin prison, where he 

endured periods of solitary confinement, beatings, internal bleeding, death threats, and continued psychological torture all because 

he would not deny his Christian faith. 

What was Pastor Abedini’s crime? According to the court, he was 

a threat to the security of Iran because of his leadership role in 

Christian churches between 2000 and 2005. And I would note parenthetically that he was allowed to go back to build an orphanage, 

got the approval and then had that all reversed and then he was 

arrested. 

President Obama promised Pastor Abedini’s son Jacob that he 

would do all he can to gain his father’s release by the boy’s birthday next month. Yesterday, the Secretary of State in answer to a 

question I posed said the administration was working quietly to 

gain Pastor Abedini’s release as soon as possible. Let us hope. 

Meanwhile, Iran is repeatedly cited for virtually unrelenting repression of the Baha’is community which Iran’s Shiite Muslim clergy views as a heretical sect. Baha’is number about 300,000–

350,000. At least 30 Baha’i remained imprisoned and 60 were arrested in 2012. A February 2013 U.N. report said that 110 Baha’is 

were in jail. They had said that 133 were expected to start serving 

jail time. 

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the regime has executed more 

than 200 Baha’is simply because of their faith. The regime freVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:38 May 13, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_AGH\022615\93535 SHIRL
3

quently prevents many Baha’is from leaving the country, harasses 

them, persecutes them, and generally disregards their property 

rights. I would note parenthetically that when Ronald Reagan was 

President and was the first one to raise the issue at the Presidential level, I was there at the White House when he so designated the defense of the Baha’i as a very vital, important interest 

of the United States and all concerned about human rights. 

Iranian courts offer no recourse to the monstrous violations of 

human rights because without an independent judiciary Iranians 

and foreigners tied to those courts are routinely denied fair trials 

sometimes resulting in executions without due process. 

I’d like to now yield to Mr. Deutch for any opening comments he 

may have. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you. Thank you Chairman Smith, Chairman 

Ros-Lehtinen and Ranking Member Bass for holding today’s joint 

hearing. It is very important that our two subcommittees come together today to shine a light on Iran’s atrocious human rights 

record. And I apologize because this is an issue I care deeply about 

but I’m going to be running back and forth to another hearing taking place at the same time. 

While the world anxiously awaits to see what if any agreement 

will be reached on Iran’s nuclear weapons program, this hearing 

serves as an important reminder that even beyond the dangerous 

and illicit program Iran’s regime routinely violates human rights of 

the Iranian people. At the same time that the news is focused on 

Geneva, back in Iran the human rights situation is as dismal as 

ever. 

We are well past the Ahmadinejad period in Iran where inflammatory statements made criticism easy. Enough time has passed to 

see what the Rouhani administration can do. Unfortunately it appears that Rouhani has fallen short on many of his campaign 

promises, hamstrung perhaps by the Supreme Leader’s ultimate 

and absolute control. The Iranian economy continues to suffer due 

to the intransigence of its leaders, and the Iranian people remain 

repressed and restricted by the ultra-conservative social policies of 

the Ayatollah. 

Today’s hearing serves as an important reminder that even if we 

were to resolve the nuclear issue, even if hypothetically the P5+1 

reaches an acceptable nuclear deal, Iran still remains a global leader in terrorism financing and human rights abuses. Iran would still 

be willing to sentence a juvenile to death for the crime of corruption on earth and imprison hundreds of political prisoners. 

This is a government that refuses for its own people some of the 

most fundamental human rights, a government that is willing to 

perpetuate misogynistic, racist, and homophobic policies, and one 

that will relentlessly defend its right to possess nuclear capabilities 

while the Supreme Leader continues to decry Israel’s right to simply exist. 

Showing a complete disregard for the principle of the right to 

life, Iran continues to execute its citizens at alarming rates. Official 

sources put the number of executions in 2014 at 200, but the actual 

number could likely be over 700. Many of those individuals were 

charged with questionable or vague offenses, like a woman last October that was convicted of killing a man that she claimed was in 

4

the act of raping her. With dozens and dozens of offenses that carry 

capital punishment, Iran’s judiciary has shown just how easy it is 

for an individual to be put to death, with over 80 Iranians executed 

in January of this year alone. 

The government allows no room for political dissent or critical 

belief. The regime continues to censor journalists and political activists and to deny its citizens their freedom of speech and opinion. 

Iran’s unfounded arrest and subsequent jailing of Washington Post 

journalist Jason Rezaian on trumped up charges is despicable and 

must be condemned by all responsible nations. 

The Internet is certainly not an open and safe space in Iran. 

Anything from a Facebook post to a viral video can land an individual in jail for years. And with one of the highest incarceration 

rates in the world, Iran certainly exercises their willingness to imprison individuals in order to keep absolute control over media and 

news content consumed by the people. 

Another favorite tactic of the Iranian regime is targeting ethnic 

and religious minorities. The country’s largest non-Muslim religious minority, people of the Baha’i Faith, face particularly hostile 

treatment. This community is denied freedom of religion, they live 

under constant fear of arrest, attacks, and destruction of their religious sites. Over 100 Baha’is are currently held in detention and 

many international reports have criticized Iran’s failure to ensure 

that they receive a fair trial and adequate access to counsel. 

Many other groups also face bigotry and targeted discrimination. 

Christians and Sunni Muslims, Arabs, Kurds, and Azeris, and 

many more religious and ethnic minority groups are also frequently 

targeted by the regime, and many are forced to hide signs of their 

identity while in public. 

Women are still subservient to men in many aspects of daily life, 

and as we witnessed from the gruesome pictures of acid attacks 

last fall, women are still targeted for violating social norms as set 

by the state’s religious interpretations. 

For the LGBT community the environment in Iran is bleak. 

LGBT individuals face discrimination from their government but 

also from their friends and families. They can’t turn to the courts 

because same-sex relationships are criminalized. They can’t report 

attacks to law enforcement authorities out of fear that they may 

be arrested for being LGBT. 

And there’s little information or support available on the ground. 

The head of Iran’s human rights council made the government’s position clear when he said that universal human rights should not 

be extended to what he referred to as the homosexual lifestyle. 

Yesterday during another Foreign Affairs Committee hearing, I 

implored Secretary Kerry to continue to raise the case of Bob 

Levinson, an American citizen and my constituent, who has been 

missing in Iran since March 2007, while our negotiators sit across 

the table from the Iranians. Eight years later Bob is still not home. 

Despite indications by the Iranian Government of their willingness 

to assist in this case, we’re nearing the eighth anniversary of his 

disappearance and we see no positive signs. We must continue to 

advocate for help in Bob’s case and for the release of the other 

American citizens unjustly held in Iran, Amir Hekmati and Pastor 

Abedini. 

5

Last November we passed a resolution condemning the Iranian 

Government for these and many more human rights violations, a 

long list to be sure, but it is important that we as a body consistently condemn these policies and practices. Unfortunately the same 

is not the case for the rest of the world. The U.N. General Assembly’s Third Committee also voted last fall in a resolution on Iran’s 

human rights abuses. And while it passed with 78 votes, 69 countries abstained and 35 countries voted against it. 

Finally, as we get closer to the deadlines for negotiations with 

Iran, I urge my colleagues in Congress and our negotiators in Geneva to not take our eyes off what is happening on the ground in 

Iran. With such deplorable human rights abuses occurring daily 

and millions of Iranians repressed and facing discrimination, we’ve 

got to keep the global spotlight on Iran and condemn the government’s disregard for basic human rights. That is what today’s hearing will do. 

I want to thank again the chairman. I want to thank our witnesses. I look forward to hearing from you today. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Deutch. 

It is a privilege to join Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the former chairman 

of the full committee and now chairman of the Subcommittee on 

the Middle East and North Africa. This is both of our subcommittees’ joint hearing. I yield to my good friend and colleague. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Chairman Smith, and 

thank you for holding this joint subcommittee hearing on this important topic. And in fact this is the third hearing that Chairman 

Smith and I have held on the issue of human rights in Iran, and 

I am appreciative of your continued dedicated leadership on this 

issue. 

I want to first start with some good news. We confirmed yesterday that Rozita Vaseghi was finally released last month after a 5-

year sentence in prison in Iran. Rozita is a member of the persecuted Baha’i community that you have heard about from my colleagues. They are Iran’s largest non-Muslim religious minority and 

I adopted her as a prisoner of conscience last year as part of the 

Tom Lanto Human Rights Commission’s Defending Freedoms 

project. 

And while I am relieved, all of us are, that Rozita has been released and will be able to get the health care that she needs after 

years of brutal mistreatment and solitary confinement, we know 

that her ordeal is not over. She has not been given any paperwork. 

Authorities have not told her whether she really might continue to 

serve a second 5-year term or even an arbitrary 2-year term. She 

fears that she could be thrown back in prison at any time, so we 

continue to pray for Rozita and for so many others as well. 

Mr. Chairman, as you know the Iranian regime uses tactics like 

those that they used against Rozita every day to instill fear in the 

people of Iran. Iran’s human rights practices are amongst the worst 

in the world. But in its desperation to secure a nuclear deal, the 

Obama administration has completely ignored the issue of human 

rights in Iran as well as many other concerns that we have with 

the Iranian regime. 

And this serves as another example of the policy of the White 

House to look the other way on human rights violations as part of 

6

any negotiation, and that was evident in Cuba. The administration 

is hosting regime officials tomorrow after the Castro state security 

folks have arrested over 300 civil society activists in the last 3 

weeks. In the last 3 weeks. And delegations have come and gone 

and folks say they are all in favor of human rights, but apparently 

not while there. Among them was Berta Soler who testified before 

your subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, 3 weeks ago. In these secret 

talks with Cuba, the administration showed its willingness to trade 

away the store for little concessions in return. 

So the question becomes what will the administration trade next 

with the Iran nuclear deal? What will the administration give up 

in return for those American citizens who are being held in 

Tehran? The parallels between how the White House is negotiating 

in secret with Cuba and Iran at the same time—well, the parallels 

are striking. 

What the administration has never understood or really has chosen to ignore is that Congress passed strong sanctions laws not just 

to stop Iran’s nuclear program but also its ballistic missile program, its weapons program, its worldwide support for terror, its destabilization of the region, its abysmal human rights record. And 

as the author of many pieces of Iran related sanctions legislation, 

I can tell you that from the beginning the administration fought 

Congress tooth and nail to stop any sanctions at all. 

And so it is of no surprise to anyone that the human rights issue 

is not even a part of the discussion when we talk about the nuclear 

deal. And now it appears increasingly likely that the administration will give away what little leverage we have and leave the ayatollahs free to continue to oppress the people of Iran, to continue 

jailing, torturing, and executing dissidents, prisoners of conscience, 

religious minorities, and ethnic minorities. 

It is truly shameful to hear our own State Department talk about 

the importance of global human rights, talk about it when it does 

absolutely nothing and in fact is indirectly legitimizing the continued repression of the people of Iran. 

The Obama administration after failing to support the Iranian 

people’s right of self-determination during the 2009 Green Movement rushed to brand Rouhani as a moderate saying that human 

rights under this Ayatollah lackey would somehow improve. 

But what we have seen, Mr. Chairman, is just the opposite. 

Human rights under Rouhani have actually gotten worse. There 

have been more crackdowns on free speech, more arrests, more 

jailings of journalists, more jailings of political prisoners, more persecution of women, the LGBT community, religious minorities, ethnic minorities, more executions. 

According to the latest report of Human Rights Watch, the real 

number of executions in Iran last year is thought to be over 600 

including eight who were under the age of 18. We still cannot confirm the execution last week of Saman Naseem, a 22-year-old ethnic Kurd who was 17 when he was arrested. Bloggers and social 

media users have also suffered under Rouhani with security forces 

cracking down sharply on any dissent, especially those considered 

to be leading members of the opposition. 

Members of the Baha’i community like Rozita are especially targeted with 100 Baha’is currently in prison. Baha’i cemeteries are 

7

systematically destroyed, including last year’s bulldozing of over 

1,000 graves in one city in order to build a cultural and sports complex. And May 14th is the 7-year anniversary of the imprisonment 

of the Baha’i Seven, the former leadership group who have been 

serving 20-year sentences for advocating on behalf of their religious 

beliefs. 

The regime hopes that we will move on, we will forget the people 

of Iran as the administration in the U.S. continues to negotiate 

solely on the nuclear program and there are at least four unjustly 

jailed Americans in Iranian prisons. And we’ve mentioned them 

here. 

Saeed Abedini, a Christian pastor who has been in jail since 

2012 has been tortured and beaten by prison guards and inmates. 

Marine veteran Amir Hakmati who has been held since 2011. His 

health is rapidly deteriorating. He is also beaten and tortured. 

Jason Rezaian, the Washington Post bureau chief arrested last 

year, still has not been charged but he is in solitary confinement 

and his health is declining. And of course the constituent of my 

good friend Ted Deutch, Bob Levinson, a south Florida resident 

who has been held captive by the Iranian regime since March 9, 

2007, making him the longest held hostage in U.S. history. These 

four U.S. citizens are just a few of the millions who continue to suffer under the Iranian regime, and tragically that suffering is not 

part of the administration’s calculus. 

Human rights are an essential factor in long term stability, 

should be a key objective in our foreign policy strategy, not a simple resolution to pass but something to live up to every day both 

for those suffering under tyranny and for our own national security. 

Mr. Chairman, we must not allow the human rights conditions 

in Iran to be ignored continually by this administration. Thank 

you, sir. 

Mr. SMITH. Madam Chair, thank you very much for your very eloquent statement and for your passion. 

Now we will yield to Mr. Cicilline. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you Mr. Chairman, and thank you to you 

and to Ranking Member Deutch, and thank you to Chairman RosLehtinen for convening this hearing and for calling attention to 

this very important issue. 

While the nuclear negotiations with Iran have dominated discussions in this country of late, the fact remains that Iran remains one 

of the world’s worst perpetrators of human rights abuses and it is 

critical that we continue to bring attention to this issue. For those 

who dare to criticize the regime of Supreme Leader Khamenei or 

attempt to challenge the government and propose conformity, they 

face harsh consequences sometimes even including death. 

I am particularly concerned about the horrific disregard for basic 

political expression, which according to the current State Department human rights report, they characterize it as the most egregious human rights problems were the government’s manipulation 

of the electoral process, which severely limited citizens’ right to 

change their government peacefully through free and fair elections; 

restrictions on civil liberties including the freedoms of assembly, 

speech, and press; and disregard for the physical integrity of perVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:38 May 13, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_AGH\022615\93535 SHIRL
8

sons whom it arbitrarily and unlawfully detained, tortured, and 

killed. And as was explained, including four American citizens currently being held. 

In addition, I am particularly concerned about the rights of 

LGBT persons and other vulnerable minority groups in the country, in a country that imposes strict, so-called morality codes, does 

not respect basic freedom of expression or religion and limits access 

to the outside world. 

I thank the witnesses for being here today and look very much 

forward to your testimony, and again thank the chairman and 

ranking member for calling this hearing. And with that I yield 

back. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. 

I would like to yield to Chairman Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to commend you 

and Chairman Ros-Lehtinen for continuing this series of hearings 

on Iran, perhaps the most dangerous regime in the world today. 

Iran continues to be one of the world’s leading abusers of fundamental human rights. The example of the Baha’is which both you 

and Chairman Ros-Lehtinen talked about already, it has already 

been referred to, but unfortunately it is only one of many of these 

abuses which are taking place today. 

The regime persecutes anybody who dares to speak publicly or 

not so publicly against the regime and often issues death sentences 

to Iranians who are charged with insulting the Islam. It has become pretty clear that the so-called moderate Rouhani is just another in a long list of Iranian dictators whose contempt for his own 

people’s fundamental human rights and religious freedom is readily 

apparent. 

When I chaired the Middle East Subcommittee in not the past, 

but the one before that Congress, as I had the opportunity to spend 

about an hour with Prime Minister Netanyahu in his office, and 

some of the things he told me were shocking and I hadn’t heard 

a lot of them in the news. And one in particular that stands with 

me to this day was the fact that during the Green Movement they 

had videos, the government did, and so when they were over we 

might have thought it was over. And what they were doing is systematically identifying those people that were in the crowds and 

that were supporters of the Green Movement and they were disappearing and in many instances along with their families, and 

this was something that got very little attention. 

And my colleague, Ms. Ros-Lehtinen, mentioned this administration’s, for lack of a better term, dropping the ball, in many instances when it comes to Iran. That was one in particular. I think 

we had an opportunity to actually speak out and do something on 

behalf of that movement. That was an opportunity that was missed 

and a lot of people unfortunately have paid a very high price as a 

result of that inaction. 

And so I want to thank you for holding this hearing and I yield 

back. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Chairman Chabot. 

The chair recognizes the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Trott. 

Mr. TROTT. I want to thank Chairman Smith and Chairman RosLehtinen for holding this hearing. And there’s no question that 

9

Iran is guilty of egregious human rights violations. They continue 

to manipulate the election process to prevent peaceful and fair elections. They severely restrict civil liberties, commit repeated religious freedom abuses, show disrespect for the physical integrity of 

its people through arbitrary detentions and torture and killing. 

Other problems include sanctioned amputations and rape and 

flogging and punishment for politically motivated violence. It is not 

surprising that the World Press Freedom Index ranked Iran 173rd 

out of 180 countries with respect to human rights violations. 

This hearing is timely for two reasons. First, we have to continue 

to shine a light and show the terrible abuses that are happening 

with respect to human rights in Iran, and secondly, Secretary 

Kerry continues to tell us that we can trust and rely on our negotiations with them and that they need more time. And for me, I 

submit that a country that is guilty of such egregious abuse cannot 

be trusted, should not be trusted, and is not worthy of the respect 

of the world community. Thank you for being here today. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Trott. 

I would like to now introduce our very distinguished panel beginning first with Shayan Arya who is an expert in Iran, who is also 

a human rights and political activist. He was elected to the Central 

Committee of the Constitutionalist Party of Iran in which he 

served multiple terms. He has co-authored numerous articles focusing on the Iranian regime’s human rights violations, internal politics, and terrorist activities. The articles have been published 

around the world in publications such as the Wall Street Journal, 

The Australian, the Washington Times, Jerusalem Post, and Strategic Outlook. 

We will then hear from Mr. Mohsen Sazegara who was part of 

the 1979 Islamic Revolution and one of the founders of the Islamic 

Revolutionary Guards. He held several positions within the regime 

in the first decade after the revolution, but declined to accept any 

positions in it after 1988. He has published three newspapers and 

two monthly magazines which were all shut down by the regime, 

and has been arrested and imprisoned four times in Iran. While 

out of the country for medical treatments in 2004, he was sentenced to 6 years of jail. He has continued his political opposition 

and is currently the president of the Research Institute on Contemporary Iran. 

Then we will hear from Mr. Anthony Vance, who oversees the development of the U.S. Baha’i Office of Public Affairs’ programs and 

strategic direction. He joined the office in 2010 after spending 4 

years at the Baha’i World Center in Haifa, Israel, representing it 

to the diplomatic community, civil society, and to the host government. A lawyer by training, he spent 21 years in the U.S. Agency 

for International Development in legal and managerial positions in 

Washington, Cote d’Ivoire, Kenya, Botswana, and Egypt. 

Mr. Arya, if you could begin. 

STATEMENT OF MR. SHAYAN ARYA, CENTRAL COMMITTEE 

MEMBER, CONSTITUTIONALIST PARTY OF IRAN (LIBERAL 

DEMOCRAT) 

Mr. ARYA. Chairman Smith, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, and honorable members of the subcommittees, it is really an honor to appear 

10

before you today to discuss the human rights situation in Iran 

under the Islamic regime. It is an important issue that has unfortunately been overlooked by the international community in light 

of the current negotiations between Iran and P5+1 since the election of Hassan Rouhani as President of Iran in 2013. 

Since that time, the Iranian regime, its supporters and lobbyists 

have tried vigorously to convince the international community in 

general and the U.S. administration in particular that something 

has fundamentally changed for the better in Iran, that the Iran Islamic Republic can be trusted to act according to Iran’s national interests and not its ideological ones. Unfortunately however the regime’s actions speak louder than its words. 

Iran, after China, currently has the highest number of executions 

in the world, and since Rouhani’s election there has not been a reduction in that statistic. To the contrary, there has been a significant increase. In 2014 alone, eight individuals believed to be under 

18 years of age at the time of their alleged crimes were reportedly 

executed. Human rights activists in Iran put the total number of 

executions for 2013 and 2014 at 1,181 people. 

The execution of juveniles is not the only crime committed by the 

Islamic Republic. The Islamic regime systematically tries to brainwash children. On this important issue I would like to draw your 

attention to the research done by the Institute for Monitoring 

Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education, IMPACT-se. 

The Islamic Republic systematically indoctrinates children and prepares them for war and encourage the hostile attitude toward nonMuslims with children instructed not to take unbelievers, Jews and 

Christians as friends. 

Again, against this background is it any surprise that almost all 

religious minorities in Iran suffer officially sanctioned discriminations? Baha’is are banned from all government positions, are not 

allowed to have places of worship, and are banned from teaching 

the faith and even attend universities. In some cases they have 

even been denied burial sites and their cemeteries are systematically destroyed. 

Evangelical Christians are suffering as well. Even Muslims who 

do not conform to the official interpretation of Islam face heresy 

charges. Last September, Mohsen Amir-Aslani was executed for insulting the prophet Jonah by declaring that his story in Koran was 

symbolic rather than factual. 

Even traditional Shiite clerics who reject official interpretation of 

Islam are persecuted. Ayatollah Hossein Kazemeyni Boroujerdi is 

a traditional Shiite cleric who openly questions the legitimacy of 

the Islamic Republic and advocates a secular regime and has been 

imprisoned since 2007. Followers of Ahl-e Haqq religion are also 

under enormous pressure. Several members of the Ahl-e Haqq community have self-immolated in recent years to protest against religious persecution in Iran. 

The Nematollahi-Gonabadi Sufi order is another example. Many 

members of this Sufi order are presently imprisoned and several 

places of their worship in Isfahan and other cities have been demolished. Mohammad Ali Taheri, founder of a spiritual group, was 

also arrested in 2011. In fact yesterday some of his supporters 

11

came out in support of him and many of them were arrested, just 

yesterday. 

Iran is one of the few countries in the world that prosecutes lawyers for representing their clients. Ms. Nasrin Sotudeh and 

Abdolfattah Soltani are good examples. Mr. Soltani, a leading 

human rights lawyer has even been denied medical attention despite the fact that even prison doctors have written a letter recommending that he be treated outside the prison. 

Last March, Maryam Shafipour, 29 years old, was sentenced to 

7 years in prison for peaceful protests. Many student activists such 

as Majid Tavakkoli, Bhareh Hedayat, Sayed Zia Nabavi, Majid 

Dori, and Navid Khanjani have spent years, years in prisons for no 

crimes other than exercising their rights to peaceful protest. 

A young brilliant scientist, Mr. Omid Kokabee, has been incarcerated in Evin prison since 2011. He was charged with espionage 

and for refusing not to work on military research projects with the 

government. That was his only crime. 

Atena Farghadani, a children’s rights advocate currently is in 

prison and she is on hunger strike. And what she’s asking, not be 

released but to be moved from Gharchak prison which is a notoriously substandard women prison, to be moved back to Evin prison. 

And she’s in a very dire situation right now from what I heard yesterday. 

Political activists such as Heshmatollah Tabarzadi have spent 

years in prison for their peaceful activities. Just a few days ago, 

Masood Arab Choobdar, Saeed Shirzad, Hamid Babaei who were 

exiled from Tehran to Rajaei Shahr prison, which is another notoriously dangerous prison in Iran, they were beaten and severely 

abused. Another Baha’i prisoner, Shahram Chinian was also beaten, so severely that his face was unrecognizable by his friends. 

Last July, Iranian writer Arzhang Davoodi was sentenced to 

death after spending nearly 11 years in prison on new charges of 

enmity against God in relation to his political activism and 

writings in support of a secular system. Journalists are another 

group that suffer under the Islamic Republic. According to Committee to Protect Journalists currently there are 30 journalists in 

Iran in prison. 

These cases are simply a reflection of the Iranian regime’s repressive domestic practices. The main question then is whether 

these practices are changing and whether Iran’s new President 

Hassan Rouhani is really a reformer. To understand Mr. Rouhani’s 

relationship to the state it is necessary to review his background. 

He has been a member of Islamic regime’s leadership for the past 

36 years and therefore has been an integral part of every aggressive move that the Islamic Republic has made since 1982. From 

creation and training of Hezbollah to the 1983 attack on U.S. and 

French military forces in Lebanon, the assassination of nearly 200 

Iranian dissidents in Europe throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the 

1994 bombing in Buenos Aires, and more recently to the Iranian’s 

asymmetric campaign targeting U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. 

It is impossible to believe that Mr. Rouhani had no knowledge 

of these actions. Rouhani’s cabinet choice for the post of Justice 

Minister, Mostafa Pourmohammadi, speaks volumes to his commitment to the issue of human rights. Pourmohammadi had direct role 

12

in the extrajudicial executions of thousands of political prisoners in 

the 1980s. 

As we all know, Iran is the only country in the Middle East 

where people are by and large are friendly to America, therefore 

it is crucial that America stands up to the Islamic Republic on this 

important issue. I would like to encourage the honorable members 

of the subcommittees on behalf of all those who are suffering in the 

hands of the Islamic regime to link any easing or lifting of sanctions not just to the outcome of the nuclear negotiations but also 

to the improvement in the human rights situation in Iran. 

With that I would like to thank you again for this opportunity 

and would be more than happy to answer any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Arya follows:]

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Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much for your testimony, and without objection your full statement will be made a part of the record 

as well as our other distinguished witnesses. 

Mr. Sazegara, please proceed. 

STATEMENT OF MR. MOHSEN SAZEGARA, PRESIDENT, 

RESEARCH INSTITUTE ON CONTEMPORARY IRAN 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, subcommittee members. 

During the last three and a half decades, the Iranian people have 

bitterly experienced suppression of their fundamental freedoms and 

rights and witnessed brutal crackdowns of pro-freedom movements 

in Iran. I deeply regret to say that extensive and systematic violations of human rights, persecutions, unfair trials, unfounded 

imprisonments, tortures, rapes, and extrajudicial executions still 

continue despite the pledges Mr. Rouhani had made to change this 

trend during his election campaign in 2013. 

Regardless of some rare cosmetic and non-systemic release of a 

dozen of well-known prisoners in 2013 and 2014, the human rights 

abuses have not only continued but also increased in many respects, including but not limited to imprisonment of human rights 

activists, journalists, bloggers, university students and teachers, 

workers, ethnic and religious minorities, and political opposition. 

In 2014, the cases of arrest, detention, and imprisonment of activists illustrate a 74-percent increase as compared to 2013. This 

average increase comprises 53 percent increase in ethnic minorities 

cases, 10 percent in religious, 93 percent students, 410 percent 

freedom of expression and conscience, and 354 percent in labor activists cases. 

Another human rights violation in Iran includes persistent and 

pervasive assault on women on a continued basis under the pretext 

of disrespecting hijab, education and employment segregation, and 

being banned from appearing on stage for musical performances. 

Torture of political prisoners continues to coerce fabricated confessions that are then used to justify brutal crackdowns. According 

to first hand reports received from former political prisoners, the 

main methods of torture include whipping and assault, sexual torture including rape, and psychological torture such as prolonged 

solitary confinement. These reports are also in conformity with the 

reports by Dr. Shaheed, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Iran. 

Execution in Iran has increased from 544 known cases in 2012 

to more than 800 known cases in 2014, it being the highest per 

capita rate in the world. The numbers are however suspected to be 

higher since many of these executions are carried out in secret and 

the regime has consistently refrained from releasing numbers and 

denied the U.N. Special Rapporteur’s access to the country. 

These are only examples of a range of human rights violation 

categories. Such extensive and systematic violations of human 

rights should not come as a surprise. Despite talk of moderation, 

Rouhani has indulged impunity and rewarded the perpetrators of 

such grave abuses. His present Justice Minister Mr. 

Pourmohammadi who played, as a member of the notorious ‘‘death 

21

committee,’’ a key role in the 1988 prison massacre, has been appointed by this very ‘‘moderate’’ government. 

In the end, I cordially submit that a standing subcommittee be 

formed under the Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa in order to monitor and take all the necessary measures to 

draw the world’s attention to the grave human rights abuses in 

Iran. Enclosed I have submitted the first two proposals to be put 

on the docket of this subcommittee. Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Sazegara follows:]

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Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much. 

Yes, thank you so much for that testimony. Both of you brought 

up the fact that the Justice Minister is in this ‘‘moderate’’ government serving in a high position despite his horrific past. 

I would like to now ask Mr. Vance if you would proceed. 

STATEMENT OF MR. ANTHONY VANCE, DIRECTOR, U.S. BAHA’I 

OFFICE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS 

Mr. VANCE. Chairman Smith, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen and also 

Chairman Chabot, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify on the situation of the Baha’is of Iran. 

A little background, I think, is appropriate. The Baha’i Faith is 

an independent world religion with over 5 million followers in over 

200 countries and territories representing virtually every racial, 

ethnic, and national group on the planet. 

The faith originated in Iran. It spread rapidly in the mid-1840s 

immediately after its inception and included several notable clerics 

among its initial adherents. This triggered a violent reaction instigated or supported by a majority of the clergy, during which some 

20,000 Baha’is were killed over little more than a decade. 

The primary reason that Baha’is are persecuted is theological. 

Most of the Islamic clergy in Iran believes that Islam is the final 

religion of God. The Baha’i Faith, a religion that arose after Islam, 

is therefore viewed by most of Iran’s clergy as heresy and blasphemy, and Baha’is are viewed as apostates. 

In addition, Iran’s clerics view certain teachings of the Baha’i 

Faith as threatening. For instance, the Baha’i Faith does not have 

a clergy and holds that each individual has the duty to investigate 

spiritual truth and arrive at his or her own beliefs. In addition, Baha’is believe strongly in the equality of women and men. 

Now while the intense brutality against Baha’is began to subside 

toward the end of the nineteenth century, unequal treatment, social hostilities and sporadic surges in violence continued during 

much of the twentieth century. After the Islamic Revolution of 

1979, Baha’is became the target of severe and systematic statesponsored persecution and it became official government policy to 

oppress Baha’is. 

In the years following the revolution, over 200 Baha’is were 

killed, the majority by execution. Thousands of Baha’is were imprisoned, many of them tortured. Baha’i holy places were destroyed 

and Baha’i cemeteries have repeatedly been attacked and desecrated, including the current ongoing excavation of the large Baha’i 

cemetery in Shiraz. 

The government also made and continues to make concerted efforts to impoverish the Baha’i community. After the revolution, Baha’is were dismissed from government jobs and denied pensions 

and private employers have been pressured not to hire Baha’is. Baha’is still suffer frequent raids on their homes and businesses, including a recent spate of shop closures, and their property is routinely seized without compensation. 

Baha’is were also dismissed from university positions after the 

revolution, and Baha’i students have been excluded from the nation’s universities and continue to be so. The seven members of the 

former ad hoc leadership group of the Baha’i community are among 

25

the 100 Baha’is currently imprisoned in Iran, nearly twice the 

number that were imprisoned at the end of 2010. 

In the last several months there has also been a disturbing surge 

in anti-Baha’i hate propaganda in state-sponsored media outlets. In 

2010 and 2011, approximately 22 anti-Baha’i pieces were appearing 

every month. In 2014, the number of anti-Baha’i pieces rose to approximately 401 per month, 18 times the previous level. 

In July 2013, the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei reissued a religious decree prohibiting Iranian Muslims from associating with 

members of the ‘‘deviant sect,’’ a well-known reference to Baha’is. 

The clerical establishment has long promoted the view that Baha’is 

are ritually unclean and that the blood of Baha’is is mobah, meaning that it can be spilled with impunity. 

Last October, the review of Iran’s human rights record before the 

U.N. Human Rights Council revealed that Iran had failed to live 

up to dozens of promises made during its last Universal Periodic 

Review in 2010, including several related to the Baha’is. Yet in an 

astonishingly blatant falsehood, Iran’s written response to the 

council declared ‘‘minorities, including Baha’is, enjoyed a full range 

of opportunities and privileges.’’

It is our hope that at the follow-up session on Iran that will be 

held next month, responsible nations will emphasize the persecution of the Baha’is and countless other individuals and will hold 

the Iranian Government to account for its gross violations of 

human rights. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Vance follows:]

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Mr. SMITH. Mr. Vance, thank you so very much for your testimony, and to all of you. We will stand in a brief recess. We have 

three votes on the floor of the House right now, and then we will 

resume our sitting of the two subcommittees. But thank you so 

very much, and I apologize for the inconvenience. 

[Recess.] 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN [presiding]. The subcommittee will come to 

order. We had a round of votes and Chairman Smith was called for 

an important meeting, but as soon as he gets done with that he 

will be back. But thank you for your excellent testimony, and I will 

begin the question and answer part. Thank you so much. 

As I had said in my opening statement, despite the administration’s lip service to the issue of human rights, they have been effectively ignoring human rights in our foreign policy discussion and 

implementation to the detriment of millions who are suffering 

under tyranny. As we know, actions speak louder than words and 

this administration has thrown human rights to the back burner, 

especially in places like my native homeland of Cuba and in Iran 

where the administration has been desperate to secure deals with 

these tyrannical regimes. 

So I am sorry if I am not going to pronounce your names correctly, but I have a very difficult name as well and I don’t get upset 

when people don’t know how to say it. 

Mr. Arya? 

Mr. ARYA. Arya. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Arya. You testified that human rights have 

‘‘been overlooked by the international community in light of current 

negotiations between Iran and the P5+1.’’ How has the human 

rights situation in Iran changed in these negotiations under 

Rouhani? 

Mr. ARYA. Well, Madam Chairman, as I said it is getting worse. 

I mean if you look at the Islamic regime, it is in their nature when 

they feel secure they just become aggressive. When they see that 

there is no attention being paid to the issue of human rights, for 

example, they just do whatever they want and they see no reason 

why they should stop. They get rid of their opponents, they do all 

kinds of things that is just true to their nature. 

But everything has gotten worse and all the statistics show that 

everything has gotten worse, from the number of executions, from 

the number of juveniles being executed, from religious minorities, 

everything has been worse under Rouhani. And my take, I think, 

is that international community hasn’t paid enough attention to 

this issue, and they haven’t been forcing Rouhani to stand up to 

his campaign promises and things of that nature. They just focus 

on the nuclear issue and then push everything aside. So that is unfortunate, I believe, that everything has gotten worse, and it is 

time for international community and U.S. administration especially to pay attention to that issue as well. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Well, I agree. And I see such similarities in 

my native homeland of Cuba when on December 17th the President 

announced we will have diplomatic relations with the Castro regime. And tomorrow another round of negotiations will take place 

in the State Department and the lead negotiator for that agreement is Josefina Vidal who was a spy for Cuba and was actually 

31

expelled by the United States because of her espionage activities, 

now she is in charge of the negotiations. 

What signal does that tell the Castro regime? We can do whatever we want and everything is forgiven, and it sends a terrible 

signal to the human rights activists. That is why it comes as no 

surprise that since the President’s announcement on December 

17th, there has been a record number of arrests in Cuba. You 

would think that at the very least Raul Castro would tone this 

down while people are paying attention, but the sad fact is, as you 

pointed out, people are not paying attention. 

And so if the United States does not lead the way, the international community will be silent. They will be silent in Cuba. 

They were silent in Venezuela. And they are silent in Iran. That 

is why the United States has such a pivotal role to play when it 

comes to talking about human rights and doing something about 

human rights. Because if not, it sends a message to Rouhani that 

he can do whatever he wants, keep executing people, keep jailing 

people for their religious beliefs, we will look the other way. 

And that sends a chilling message to so many people living under 

this yoke of tyranny in Iran who want to be free, who want a different kind of government, but they think, well, obviously no one 

is paying attention, and the international community, they are so 

eager to have this nuclear deal that they are willing to look the 

other way as well. 

What kind of support do you see for the issue of Iranian human 

rights internationally in human rights organizations, et cetera? 

Mr. ARYA. Well, I believe that on every arena from the administration to the Congress, this issue should be brought up continuously. In the United Nations, everywhere. Because without that the 

Islamic regime won’t do anything then. I mean they will continue 

to abuse the Iranian people’s rights. 

A very good example, if I may, the way President Reagan dealt 

with Gorbachev, they wanted to make a deal with Gorbachev, they 

had good relationship with Gorbachev. They negotiated with him. 

They did all of that. But at the same time, when President Reagan 

went to Moscow he made a point to meet with the dissidents. And 

that sent a very good message, encouraging message, to all the 

anti-Soviet dissidents all over the former Soviet Union. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. That they were not forgotten. 

Mr. ARYA. Exactly. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. People cared about them. 

Mr. ARYA. Exactly. The attitude of U.S. and European countries 

and all the other countries should be the same way. That whatever 

negotiations that goes between, I mean we understand. I am a 

member of opposition. I advocate regime change in Iran. But at the 

same time I understand that international relations and security 

concerns dictates that sometimes they have to negotiate with the 

Islamic regime. That is fine. But at the same time that negotiation, 

that improvement in relationship should not come at the expense 

of Iranian people’s rights to freedom. That is the most important——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. It is not an either/or. 

Mr. ARYA. Exactly. 

32

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And yet we give that message to the people 

with whom we are dealing whether it is Rouhani, whether it is 

Castro. They will say, well, we are just going to talk about diplomatic relations with Cuba, we will ignore human rights. We are 

just going to talk about a nuclear deal with Rouhani, we will ignore 

human rights. And that is a great boost to these regimes to keep 

harassing, intimidating and jailing opposition leaders because they 

have actually been given a green light to do so by our very own 

Government. 

Mr. ARYA. I agree. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Sazegara? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. You were one of the founding 

members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps before being 

imprisoned for your opposition to the regime. What can you tell us 

about the inner workings of the IRGC and the Iranian regime, its 

financing capabilities and the risk that the IRGC poses to U.S. interests and to our regional security interest? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. I was one of the founders of the Revolutionary 

Guard and one of the writers of the Charter of Revolutionary 

Guard in the first 3 months of victory of revolution, and then I left 

the guard and went to the National Radio and Television of Iran. 

But I followed the changes in the Revolutionary Guard during the 

last 36 years. 

Right now the Revolutionary Guard is, I believe, a kind of unique 

organization and maybe all around the world, because at the same 

time Revolutionary Guard is like a political party, a terrorist organization, a mafia group involved in the smuggling of drugs, alcoholic beverages, sex traffic in Iran, and a complex holding company. 

It owns several companies, huge manufacturing and trading companies of Iran. And its intelligence organization which directly 

works under command of son of the Ayatollah, the leader of Iran, 

is more brutal than Ministry of Intelligence and more powerful. 

So a part of at least the most important part of the nuclear 

project of Iran is controlled by the Revolutionary Guard as well. 

Besides that I think that especially these coming years, I mean 

2015 and 2016, because of illness of the leader, the political competition in Iran amongst several factions especially inside the Revolutionary Guard will be increased. And for this simple reason, as 

a political activist I am really, really afraid of more brutality, more 

separation of the people during this year and the year after. 

And the economic crisis which has been created not only because 

of the sanctions, more than the sanctions are mismanagement and 

oil price, which has been decreased about 60 percent, and several 

other factors will affect several aspects of Iranian people on this 

year. 

And again, riots, strikes, protests of workers, of teachers, I believe that we will suffer brutality by Revolutionary Guard this year 

and the year after. I want to add——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. In Iran itself. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And what about the risks that they pose for 

our interests and regional concerns? 

33

Mr. SAZEGARA. As you know, the Quds Force of Revolutionary 

Guard, which has about 14,000 members, is the special division of 

Revolutionary Guard which is in charge of out-of-Iran operations. 

I think that because of the internal affairs of Iran, the Quds Force 

of Revolutionary Guard will increase the out-of-Iran operations and 

adventurism in the region. 

And I say adventurism because they know from the period of war 

between Iran and Iraq that in crisis and military situation and in 

out-of-Iran crisis they can have the upper hand in internal politics. 

For instance, recently the missile platforms in Golan Heights, 

which were attacked by Israelis and destroyed, as far as I know 

there are several projects like that in the whole region, or assassination of some prominent opposition figures outside Iran by new 

methods that they hire some thugs to attack them just by knives 

or daggers or something like that, the example that happened in 

Jerusalem 2 or 3 months ago, or other crises. 

I mean I expect for the year coming acceleration of out-of-Iran 

operations, terrorist operations, and creating some conflicts too because of, especially because of the internal competitions in Iran. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. To take away attention from their inner 

problems, have they focused on that? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. And they know that in such situations they become more powerful in internal politics if they say that yes we are 

involved in Iraq. This is the war over there in Yemen, with Israel, 

especially with Israel, in the border of Israel, or Hezbollah Lebanon 

involvement in some battles against Israel or several others that, 

other operations that they have done so far. They can have the 

upper hand in internal politics as well. 

I want to add to Mr. Arya’s that as far as I know, Mr. Kerry has 

agreed with Mr. Zarif to put any human rights issue off the table. 

That is what, at the first terms of the rounds of negotiations Zarif 

has said that if you bring any human rights issue on the table, 

then Ayatollah Khamenei will order us to leave the table. So they 

have confidence that there will be no pressure——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. They don’t have to worry about it. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. It will be off the table. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Iranians watch the U.S. policies through some 

windows like Voice of America, and unfortunately on these days 

they don’t hear anything even from Voice of America. And the regime sells the idea to the people that see, we have behind a curtain——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. We are fine. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. We have the agreement and nobody can help you. 

You look at that. There is nothing to say about that. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. And the opposition feels dispirited. Well, 

thank you very much. I appreciate it. 

Mr. Vance, the regime’s treatment of Baha’is is getting worse 

under Rouhani, not better. Can you describe the treatment and the 

abuse of Baha’is under Rouhani and what does the persecution of 

the Baha’is in Iran mean for human rights in general? And what 

more can you tell me about the prisoner of conscience that I had 

adopted, Rozita Vaseghi, her health, her current situation, includVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:38 May 13, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00039 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_AGH\022615\93535 SHIRL
34

ing the likelihood that Iranian authorities will try to imprison her 

again? Thank you, sir. 

Mr. VANCE. Sure. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Well, we had been, first, we were guardedly optimistic when 

President Rouhani was elected that he would actually improve the 

situation, especially since he had promised, one of his election 

promises was to put together a draft charter of citizens’ rights and 

have it circulated and finalized. He did actually issue a draft in November 2013. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Oh, you should read the Cuban Constitution. 

It is a beauty. They don’t follow one word of it, but it is beautiful. 

Mr. VANCE. We were very disappointed with the draft because it 

made all of the rights under it contingent on the Iranian Constitution and on Iranian law. So it didn’t actually hold out any promise 

for any future improvements. And I think the draft got a great deal 

of pushback and criticism from a number of circles, so it has never 

been actually circulated again, to the best of our knowledge. And 

that, I think, signaled what we were beginning to see, and that is 

that one of the trends—we have always had Baha’is who have been 

harassed, raids on homes, raids on businesses. The amount of 

physical abuse in those raids has actually increased over the last 

couple of years and certainly has not decreased under President 

Rouhani. Baha’is have, because they are excluded from so many 

professions in Iran, they have become largely small business people 

running their own small businesses. And there is a very large 

amount of economic harassment refusing either to provide or renew 

business licenses, closing shops arbitrarily. 

In October, for example, on October 25th, in Kerman and a couple of other cities nearby, there were 79 shops that were closed 

simply because the shopkeepers had observed a Baha’i holy day. 

And so the shops were actually sealed. But perhaps the most disturbing thing that has occurred, at least in my opinion, is the increase in hate propaganda. Because it has been shown in many societies that it is a prerequisite, or at least it presages in many societies a much more serious crackdown on the population that is 

being targeted. 

I had mentioned that, in 2014, there were 18 times the number 

of anti-Baha’i articles, not just criticizing Baha’is but portraying 

them as being agents of the United States, agents of Russia, agents 

of Israel, accusing them of all sorts of immorality. It is all designed 

to create a sense in people’s minds that persecution of Baha’is is 

justified. 

So based on the very unfortunate history of good portions of the 

twentieth century, I am much more concerned about that than any 

other single factor. And certainly that would be in the control of, 

all of this is state-sponsored media and that is certainly within the 

control or should be in the control of President Rouhani. 

So we are concerned about that. We are concerned that for 

human rights in general in Iran, because the Baha’is are the largest non-Muslim religious minority in the country and because they 

have been traditionally despised to a greater degree than any other 

group by the Muslim clergy, we know that if things were to improve for the Baha’is, they would improve for everybody because it 

is inconceivable that things could get better for the Baha’is in Iran 

35

without them also getting better for other groups. So in a sense we 

are that barometer, let us say, of what, how we are being treated 

is a barometer for the rest of the civil society. 

And as to Rozita Vaseghi, we are delighted that she was released 

from prison in Mashhad on January 21st. You had noted earlier 

that she is uncertain as to what her future is because she had two 

5-year sentences and it was unclear whether they were going to be 

successive or concurrent. The way things stand at the moment they 

were concurrent. They released her. 

But she was also told that she might have another 2-year sentence, and so we don’t know what is going to happen with that. She 

certainly has health problems that have to be dealt with, and rather than get into the details of that I can simply say that 5 years 

in prison in Mashhad took a definite health toll on her. Thank you. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Which was one of the objectives of the regime. Thank you very much. Excellent, excellent answers. We appreciate it. 

Mr. Cicilline? 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Thank you again for your very, very important testimony. I think 

it is very clear to anyone that has looked at this issue that the 

human rights abuses in Iran are horrific and are contrary to basic 

American values and universal values of human rights. And I 

think the challenge for us is to determine what is the most effective way for us to try to change that as responsible world leaders 

and part of the international community. 

And so my first question really is, is there any sense that President Rouhani, even if he were inclined to change his view on 

human rights, would be empowered to actually make substantial 

changes in the condition of basic human rights in Iran, or is the 

Supreme Leader responsible for this set of practices such that the 

President wouldn’t actually have the ability or the capacity to 

change it? Because I think it is important to kind of know where 

our leverage points should be in the conversation to begin. I don’t 

know if anyone has a sense of that. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. According to the Constitution of Islamic Republic, 

President is the head of the executive power. And judiciary power 

is controlled by the leader, the head of judiciary power is appointed 

by the leader, and all the judges and prosecutors are appointed by 

that head. 

And Rouhani just theoretically doesn’t have so much power to 

change some parts of these human rights abuses in Iran, but at 

least he can do something. For instance, changing his Minister of 

Justice, a notorious killer, a notorious person to violate human 

rights and in charge of massacre, or he can put pressure on keeping the freedom of press in Iran, because the Ministry of Culture 

and Islamic Guidance is in charge of the press and it is controlled 

by Rouhani, but he doesn’t do that. Or changing the situation, for 

instance, in Iranian universities with respect to teachers’ associations, labor associations, but he has not done anything with respect 

to these parts. 

He can do something to help the civil society of Iran to confront 

the suppression of the rights of the people of Iran, but so far he 

has not done anything. And even he has not said anything about 

36

the home arrest of the leaders of Green Movement of Iran or the 

other political prisoners. 

So I believe that some parts of the violations has happened by 

the hands of the Minister of Intelligence, while the Minister of Intelligence is a member of the cabinet. So I think that yes, although 

he is not directly in charge of the judiciary power, he can do many 

things by the tools that he has in the executive power, by the people, by the civil society of Iran and support at least the basic freedoms of people of Iran, but he has not done anything. 

Mr. ARYA. I would like to add I agree with Mr. Sazegara as well, 

however, I believe it is a mistake to believe, to think of Rouhani 

as someone separated from the whole totality of the regime. As I 

said, he has been part of this regime from the beginning and he 

has been serving this regime at the highest levels, security levels, 

from the beginning until now. So it is foolhardy to me that we 

think of him as an outsider who wanted to come and do some reforms. He may have presented himself during the election as such 

or to the international community that he really is trying to make 

things better, but things are not really in his hands. The judicial 

system is not really in my hands, the security system is not really 

in my hand, this is not in my hand, that is not in my hand, all 

I can do is this and that. 

But he is part of this regime. I mean he has been approving—

I mean the Mr. Shariatmadari is the notorious editor of Kayhan, 

a very hardline, radical newspaper in Iran. He said it and I agree 

with him. He said that what is all this—and I am paraphrasing. 

He said what is all this talk about him wanting to release the leaders of the Green Movement, Mr. Mousavi, Mr. Rahnavard, and Mr. 

Karroubi? He said he voted for their imprisonment. At the National 

Security Council he voted for them to be incarcerated. What is this 

all talk about? I mean to me it is a mistake to think of him separately. 

Mr. CICILLINE. And is there any evidence that you have seen that 

international pressure that may have been made on the human 

rights abuses as having any effect on the regime? Would you talk 

a little bit about it? Yes. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes, yes, definitely. 

Mr. CICILLINE. And so things like this hearing I assume are helpful because they are helping to bring attention to this issue. Similarly, if we were to enact a comprehensive statement of our kind 

of affirmation of basic human rights, would that be useful? Yes, 

okay. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes, I can mention several cases including my 

case. I was in confines for 79 days. I was on a long hunger strike. 

And 800 students were arrested with me when they arrested me 

including my son who was a university student in those days. And 

international pressure was really, really effective to release not 

only me but all those students. 

And I think that more than just telling, and just by statements 

of that, something like Helsinki Accord, something which happened 

that put real pressure on the Communist bloc. Right now the sanctions has worked. They have brought the regime to the negotiation 

table. If we can use at least a part of these sanctions targeted to 

human rights, I believe, at least the people who are in charge of 

37

the violation of human rights in Iran be under sanction, I think 

that it works. And the letter soon will send the right signal to the 

people of Iran that the international community is concerned and 

puts real pressure on this regime. 

Mr. ARYA. May I add something? I agree. And one thing I would 

really like to, if anything I would like to relay in this hearing is 

that Islamic regime only responds to force. Not just military force, 

but when they see that the international community is standing up 

firmly on any issue they eventually back off. 

In Europe during the 1980s and 1990s, more than 200 Iranian 

dissidents were assassinated all over Europe. European countries 

kind of looked the other way. They said, well, it is this element of 

a radical group in the regime or that group, and it didn’t stop. It 

only stopped when after the massacre in Mykonos all the European 

countries got together, they pulled back their Ambassadors and 

they imposed some sanctions. Since then there hasn’t been any assassinations that I know of. So they respond to firmness and united 

front, they will respond to that. Otherwise they will just do whatever they want. 

Mr. CICILLINE. I just ask the chair if I might just ask the last 

two things. If you would speak to the current situation for members of the LGBT community in Iran, specifically are there concerns about the basic human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and 

transgender community, and also if you could speak to any information you might have about Jason Rezaian, if I am pronouncing 

his name correctly, who is an American journalist and who was detained and has been detained. I understand that he hasn’t been 

able to have his defense counsel meet with him, and whether or not 

there are current efforts underway that you are aware of to secure 

his release. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. As far as I know about Jason Rezaian, he has 

been kept in a confined cell and under pressure for TV confessions. 

And they have taped a TV confession from him that he is an agent 

of CIA and the secret services, and he has——

Mr. CICILLINE. This is the Washington Post correspondent, just 

for the people, yes. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. And the Revolutionary Guard has done that. 

And he has confessed that one of the relatives of Rouhani in his 

office has helped him and his connection, so they have made something out of his confessions to put pressure on Rouhani for internal 

clashes in the regime. 

So I know that Jason Rezaian is just a journalist and has not 

done anything, but this is what they do, how they behave. This is 

what they call it to make a scenario out of any political prisoner. 

So they have a TV confession from him, and I doubt that they finish this case easily unless you have a very, very heavy pressure on 

the regime. 

Mr. ARYA. I have nothing to add to that. 

Mr. CICILLINE. And with respect to the LGBT community? 

Mr. ARYA. LGBT community are again it is against Sharia law, 

being gay, and they are under enormous pressure. The only group 

that I know of that are not kind of tolerated, if they want to go 

through sex change then they have provisions to allow that. But 

that is only a small group of LGBT community. If somebody is gay 

38

and wants to remain gay and wants to be lesbian or remain lesbian 

without going through sex change and things like that they will be 

persecuted. I mean I don’t exactly know the time, but recently they 

told two gay men—just punish them, to kill them as part of the 

punishment prescribed in Sharia for gay people. 

So I don’t see any kind of light in the end of the tunnel for that 

community in Iran so long as the Islamic regime is in power because they won’t tolerate it. Because it goes against everything 

that they claim to stand by, so it undermines their legitimacy, undermines their claim of legitimacy in terms of religious doctrine 

that they prescribe to. I see no improvement in their situation except that small little group who want to go through the sex change. 

Other than that they are in terrible shape just like any other. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you very much again, and I thank the 

chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much. 

Mr. DeSantis? 

Mr. DESANTIS. Thank you Madam Chairman. 

Mr. Sazegara, when you joined the Islamic Revolution in 1979, 

you were there it seemed to be from, I read your bio, about 10 

years before you left? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. 

Mr. DESANTIS. 1988, is that when you left government? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So did you change or was it the regime that 

changed? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Both. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So at the time you were, in 1979, because as I remember that time or think about the time, I was just a kid but 

there was dissatisfaction with the Shah, but there were a lot of 

people who didn’t want an Islamic Revolution. They wanted a secular revolution. They just didn’t want to have that ruling elite in 

power, and then obviously you had the Mullahs who wanted a 

Sharia revolution. So were you expecting a Sharia revolution or did 

you just think you would remove the Shah and have a chance to 

have a better Iran? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Better to say that everybody on those days, the 

majority of the people, 35 million Iranian population those days, 

everybody was eager to have a revolution, an ideological revolution. 

At least the university educated people like me, we didn’t think 

that an Islamic regime would be based on Sharia and the Mullahs 

would get all the power. 

In those days we were affected by leftists, and a version of Islam 

that I can call a revolutionary, ideological version of Islam was 

dominant in the Islamic movement and was effective to mobilize 

the people against Shah. But gradually after victory of revolution, 

the Mullahs got the upper hand by of course the leader of revolution, Ayatollah Khomenei who was a Grand Ayatollah. And gradually other factions of anti-Shah movement were dismissed, were 

suppressed, were massacred, during one decade. So anybody who 

didn’t agree with them was under pressure. 

I personally, the change that, my changes were not only in this 

part from the theoretical point of view but in action, because for 

4 or 5 years I was the head of the biggest industrial complex of 

39

Iran which owns about 140 huge manufacturing companies of Iran. 

And in practice I found out that many policies that we thought to 

run the country on were wrong as well, so I gradually——

Mr. DESANTIS. So it was a perfect storm for you. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes, I left the regime in 1988. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So what did you think when the Ayatollah started 

to fund and support groups like Hezbollah in Lebanon that would 

conduct terrorist attacks? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. It had started from the first decade. The idea of 

exportation of revolution was born with the revolution, like many 

other revolutions of course. 

Mr. DESANTIS. And so that was a natural outgrowth to have outposts in Lebanon where you would have people who could conduct 

operations? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes, and especially that several activists of the Islamic Revolution were trained in Lebanon and they lived in Lebanon for several years. And if precisely I can say it had started 

from an Office of Liberation Movements All Around the World in 

the Revolutionary Guard in 1981–1982, and gradually it was 

changed to Quds Corps and later it became Quds Force which were 

in charge of organizations like Hezbollah in Lebanon. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So an attack such as the attack that was conducted on the U.S. Marines in Beirut in 1983, that would have 

been just a basic application of their revolutionary mindset, correct? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So let me ask you now, fast forward, clearly this 

regime is one of the most repressive in the world. There was a 

chance it seemed in 2009 with the Green Movement where there 

were a lot of people who were really brave to express their dissatisfaction. 

The administration here in the United States made the decision 

that that was not something that they wanted to support. I think 

the reason was because they thought that that would jeopardize 

their ability to have a constructive relationship with the Ayatollah. 

The President has written the Ayatollah a number of letters. I 

think that was a mistake. I think that we need to be supporting 

groups who are challenging the regime and standing up for human 

rights in Iran. Do you agree that the United States should have 

been supportive of the Green Movement? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes. Still I wear this green wristband. On that 

summer, summer of 2009, I was in Washington, DC, and I was one 

of the activists of the Green Movement. We had several meetings 

with the officials of administrations, but yes, you are right. No support. And in those days we didn’t know that behind the curtain 

they are writing some letters to the leader of Iran——

Mr. DESANTIS. Right. 

Mr. SAZEGARA [continuing]. And some communications. But we 

didn’t get any real support. And besides to that on those days I was 

on a weekly TV show in Voice of America, a talk show, which was 

very effective in the movement because we had the connection with 

the leaders of the movement. Not the leaders, the activists of the 

movement, and we could give information about the demonstrations, what is going on, and we had real problems in the Voice of 

40

America as well. I mean lots of pressure in the Voice of America. 

And at last that program was stopped. 

Mr. DESANTIS. I have been frustrated, and I know that my friend 

from Florida, the chairman, has mentioned this that there is this, 

really, just lust to kind of have a kind of ‘‘deal’’ about these nukes. 

And a lot of us don’t think that is going to be effective, but it will 

allow the administration to wave a sheet of paper. But because 

they are so eager bending over backwards to try to get a deal, they 

are really turning a blind eye to some of these human rights problems even more so than they had been doing previously. 

But with respect to this deal, Iran is one of the most energy-rich 

countries in the world. What do they need nuclear power for in 

terms of for peaceful purposes? I mean it just seems to me that you 

could see like France or some of these other countries that don’t 

have access to energy, they have hundreds of years of energy reserves and they haven’t even started fracking yet. So are you skeptical that they will use it for peaceful purposes? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Yes, very much. I think that so far Iran has spent 

billions of dollars in this project and the value of whatever they 

have produced is just a couple of million dollars. And definitely it 

is not feasible to produce nuclear energy in Iran. Iran has the biggest supplies of natural gas in the world. Yes, definitely. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Mr. Arya? 

Mr. ARYA. May I add something to this? I think you should look 

at Islamic regime and its drive to this nuclear issue from the perspective of their security. I believe that they want this program for 

several reasons and they won’t give it up. One is that if they go 

nuclear they have something to show to their own supporters. And 

yes, the economy is bad, yes, your lives are terrible, all that stuff, 

but look at the end, we made Iran an atomic, nuclear power. The 

second thing that they look for in my opinion is that they believe 

that if they get the bomb they have secured the regime. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Right. 

Mr. SAZEGARA. Just like North Korea, nobody will be able to do 

anything. And that security is twofold. One is from outside threat; 

one is internal. I certainly believe that they in their minds and in 

their hearts’ calculations they think that if they get the bomb they 

will be secure from outside threat, and internally if there is a big, 

huge uprising they can do anything they want without nobody 

being able to do anything. They can massacre hundreds of thousands of people and nobody will be able to do anything. 

So because of all these calculations, otherwise it doesn’t make 

sense that they spend all this time, all this money, enduring all 

these sanctions that have damaged the Iranian economy to the 

point of almost collapse, hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars damage to this economy for what? For generating power? It 

doesn’t make sense. They want it for military application. If not 

they don’t want it to make it maybe today or tomorrow, but they 

want to be so close to it that they will have that option anytime 

they want and they want to choose. 

And that is a security thing in their minds, in the mind of the 

Supreme Leader and the security apparatus around him, and all 

the Revolutionary Guard people who are controlling everything in 

41

Iran these days. They look at it as an insurance policy that they 

will use it for saving their own regime. That is——

Mr. DESANTIS. And so if you have freedom fighters and people 

who want to have an Iran in which individual liberty is respected, 

Iran has an advantageous deal where they can go nuclear, you are 

making it way more difficult that those forces of progress will succeed, correct? 

Mr. ARYA. Exactly. 

Mr. DESANTIS. One final. In terms of the nuclear ambitions, I 

agree with you. I mean it defies logic that they would do this stuff 

unless they wanted a military application. Because the losses that 

they have incurred to use it for peaceful energy, I mean they have 

the energy, and so you are 100 percent right about that. 

And I agree with you about the insurance aspect, and there are 

a lot of reasons why they would want to do it. What about the offensive use of nuclear weapons? People have said that they have 

said over and over again that they would like to eliminate Israel 

from the map. They obviously say death to America a lot. 

And while there are other countries who may be hostile to our 

allies or to us, we do have this deterrent capability, because obviously we have nuclear weapons and other countries may have 

them, but in the case of Iran, if they could take a potshot and take 

out Tel Aviv, let’s say, and kill millions of Jews, they know they 

would get hit on return in Tehran or wherever and lose maybe 

more than a few million Iranians. But from their ideology they 

would say that they are hastening the return maybe of the Twelfth 

Imam, the people who are killed in Iran would be going straight 

to paradise. 

So do you think that them with nukes with that ideology, is that 

something that is a little bit different from some of the other nuclear powers that we have seen in the past whether it is the Soviet 

Union, whether it is North Korea, which is crazy but they do want 

to keep themselves in power, and they are Communists so they 

don’t believe in an afterlife. 

Mr. ARYA. There definitely is that aspect to it. I mean they are, 

I mean some elements within that regime they are not really rational people. And all those calculations may come into their play 

and that is why it is very dangerous for them to have that nuclear 

capability in terms of military application. However, if you look at 

the Islamic regime, whenever they have felt that they have the 

upper hand and whenever they have felt that they are secure they 

have gone aggressive. Their behavior has changed. 

I mean you look at from the very beginning, you look at the hostage crisis when they took over the American Embassy. The hostage takers, they admit that they only wanted to take the hostages 

for a couple of days, 3 or 4 days, to send a message and they will 

release them. As soon as the regime establishment, Khomenei and 

people around him, realized that the Carter administration is not 

going to do anything and it is safe to keep them, they kept them 

for 444 days. 

Iran-Iraq War, in 1982, Iranian forces liberated Khorramshahr. 

They pushed all the Iraqi forces back. At that time Iran was at the 

highest military position and Iraq was afraid, all the Arab countries in the Persian Gulf were afraid that Iran will enter the Iraqi 

42

territory. At that time everybody offered them all kinds of incentives to accept a ceasefire. They felt powerful. They didn’t do that. 

They continued on. They marched on into Iraq, and they only accepted the ceasefire when they had nothing left basically. Even Mr. 

Rezaee at one point in one of his interviews admitted that had the 

war continued for another week they wouldn’t even have ammunitions for their handguns. So they push all the way there. 

The same thing in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq and now in Yemen. 

You look at their behavior in Iraq. As soon as, I mean there is a 

very wonderful article in the New York Times about how this 

whole thing unfolded in Iraq, when after 9/11 they were extremely 

afraid that somehow America will go after them and they started 

cooperating with Ambassador Crocker. They tried to be nice to him 

and gave him some information and stuff. As soon as U.S. went 

into Iraq and they realized that there is no plan to move into Iran 

or do anything about their regime, they went aggressive and they 

caused all that chaos in Iraq. 

Mr. DESANTIS. They were responsible for killing hundreds of U.S. 

service members. 

Mr. ARYA. Exactly. Why do they do that? Because as soon as they 

feel secure, as soon as they feel that there is no repercussions for 

their actions they go aggressive. And they have showed it time and 

time and time again. If they ever get their hands on a nuclear 

bomb, if you think that they are aggressive now, wait until then. 

They won’t even need to use that bomb to blow up Tel Aviv or anywhere else. 

There are hundreds of other things they can do to make life miserable not only for Israelis but for the whole region, as they have 

done so. I mean look at Syria, look at Iraq. I mean the carnage that 

they have caused is immeasurable, I mean in Iraq and everywhere. 

Mr. DESANTIS. So what in the Congress, and everyone can opine 

on this. What do you recommend that we do? I know there are 

things geopolitically with how we would confront Iran and some of 

their proxies. But in terms of empowering opposition, empowering 

people who want a different, a better Iran, because I definitely 

know that although the regime is one of the most oppressive in the 

world there are millions of Iranians who are chafing under this and 

I think could be natural allies of ours. So what do you recommend 

that the Congress can do to empower those elements and ultimately to make Iran a better place? 

Mr. ARYA. If you ask me, sir, the best thing that U.S. can do is 

get rid of this mentality of betting on the winning horse, per se. 

We need to identify people who are truly democratic and they are 

truly in line with our values in the West and just support them, 

give them platforms. Not necessarily money or anything, but just 

like give them platforms to express their views. 

I always think about Germany after World War II. In Germany, 

we in the U.S. just did and stood by helping everybody. They identified democratic forces within German society. They gave them financial support. They gave them political support. They gave them 

moral support. They gave them all kinds of assistance. And gradually say Christian Democrats, they started to grow and grow and 

grow and become more and more powerful. So that is the thing. 

Right now, for example, all this, the U.S. administration’s attempt 

43

to say, use Quds Forces against ISIS, is just, it is ridiculous to me. 

I am sorry to say that but it is ridiculous. I mean to defeat one radical and to replace it with another radical, you don’t gain anything. 

The best thing for the U.S. is to identify people who are truly 

aligned with our values in the West and give them moral support, 

give them platforms to expand their ideas. Right now in Voice of 

America, for example, and Mr. Sazegara mentioned it, a lot of moderate groups don’t even get a chance to go over there and express 

their ideas. It is almost impossible to do. 

That is the best thing that U.S. Congress can do. Stand by democratic forces, promote them and give them encouragement, and stay 

away from all the other radicals whom we can use for short period 

of time, because that hasn’t paid off. It just replaces one bad guy 

with another bad guy. And then in the process, the ordinary people 

they just blame America. They say hey, look at them. They are 

playing with us in order just, it is all a big game. 

The conspiracy theories are wild in the Middle East. They look 

at it and say, okay, well, America is using ISIS against Iran and 

Iran against ISIS. So this is just all a game for America. We should 

stay away from it. We should stand by people who are truly in line 

with our values. That is all I can say, sir. 

Mr. DESANTIS. You guys want to chime in? What do you advise 

us to do? 

Mr. SAZEGARA. I have submitted a proposal, the appendix to my 

testimony. I kindly ask you to read that. And in that proposal I 

have suggested to have a standing subcommittee for human rights 

in Iran to watch very carefully the human rights and show that the 

Congress of the United States is concerned about the human rights 

in Iran. 

And put pressure on the sources of money of the institutions and 

the persons who abuse human rights in Iran, who violate human 

rights in Iran. The first person is the leader and then Revolutionary Guard and several other institutions. Forty percent of 

Iran’s economy is controlled by these organizations. 

So Ayatollah Khamenei, the leader, insists that human rights 

should be off the table of any negotiation. I think Congress can put 

on the table, if not in this negotiation, the nuclear negotiation, in 

other commissions and say that okay, these sanctions will not be 

removed or new sanctions will be regulated in Congress to keep the 

hands of the suppression groups and forces in Iran off the people 

in Iran. So I think that this is the real force that they understand 

and will send a good signal to the people of Iran that the United 

States is concerned about their rights and their freedoms. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Mr. Vance, you want to weigh in? 

Mr. VANCE. We don’t actually have any specific recommendations, so certainly we have been grateful for the resolutions that 

have usually been passed in each Congress that highlight the situation with respect to human rights and especially the Baha’is in 

Iran, but we don’t have any recommendations on U.S. policy. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Great. Well, I appreciate the witnesses. Really a 

lot of good information and a lot of good insights. So I thank you 

for coming. 

44

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. DeSantis, for your 

deep interest in this important issue. Very good questions and excellent answers from our panelists. 

Unfortunately our subcommittee chairman, Mr. Smith, has been 

unavoidably detained, so with that our joint subcommittee hearing 

is now adjourned. Thank you to all. 

[Whereupon, at 4:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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