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33–563 PDF 2007

S. HRG. 110–3

THE PLIGHT OF IRAQI REFUGEES

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JANUARY 16, 2007

Serial No. J–110–2

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

(

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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman 

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JON KYL, Arizona 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

BRUCE A. COHEN, Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

MICHAEL O’NEILL, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

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C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Page

Cornyn, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas ............................... 5

Feingold, Hon. Russell D., a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin, prepared statement ................................................................................................... 139

Kennedy, Hon. Edward M., a U.S. Senator from the State of Massachusetts ... 3

prepared statement .......................................................................................... 176

Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont .................... 1

prepared statement .......................................................................................... 180

Specter, Hon. Arlen, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania ................. 2

WITNESSES 

‘‘Al-Obiedy, Sami’’ (pseudonym), former translator for the U.S. Armed Forces, 

Pennsylvania ........................................................................................................ 19

Bacon, Ken, President, Refugees International, Washington, D.C. ..................... 32

Gabaudan, Michel, Regional Representative for the U.S. and Caribbean, Office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees, Geneva, Switzerland ........ 41

Iscol, Zachary J., Capt., Foreign Military Training Unit, Marine Forces Special Operations Command, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina ............................. 28

‘‘John’’ (pseudonym), former truck driver (subcontractor) for the U.S. Armed 

Forces, California ................................................................................................. 21

Ramaci-Vincent, Lisa, Executive Director, Steven Vincent Foundation, New 

York, New York .................................................................................................... 31

Sauerbrey, Ellen, Assistant Secretary of State for Population, Refugees and 

Migration, Department of State, Washington, D.C. .......................................... 6

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 

Responses of Ken Bacon to questions submitted by Senator Kennedy ............... 49

Responses of Michel Gabaudan to questions submitted by Senator Kennedy ... 52

Responses of Ellen Sauerbrey to questions submitted by Senators Leahy, 

Kennedy, Feingold, and Cornyn .......................................................................... 55

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Ahmed, F., M.D., letter ........................................................................................... 97

‘‘Al-Obiedy, Sami’’ (pseudonym), former translator for the U.S. Armed Forces, 

Pennsylvania, statement ..................................................................................... 102

American Jewish community organizations, joint letter ...................................... 112

Bacon, Ken, President, Refugees International, Washington, D.C., statement .. 115

Brookings Institution, January 4, 2007, article .................................................... 119

Chaldean Federation of America, Joseph T. Kassab, Executive Director, 

Farmington, Michigan, statement ...................................................................... 121

Constitutional scholars, joint letter ........................................................................ 130

Dellinger, Walter, former Assistant Attorney General, Chapel Hill, North 

Carolina, letter ..................................................................................................... 137

Gabaudan, Michel, Regional Representative for the U.S. and Caribbean, Office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees, Geneva, Switzerland, 

statement .............................................................................................................. 140

Human rights and religious rights organizations, joint letter ............................. 151

Human Rights Watch, executive summary, November 2006 ............................... 153

‘‘John’’ (pseudonym), former truck driver (subcontractor) for the U.S. Armed 

Forces, California, letter ...................................................................................... 171

Page

IV

Keys, Arthur B., Jr., President and CEO, International Relief and Development, statement ................................................................................................... 178

Los Angeles Times, Kirk W. Johnson, December 15, 2006, article ..................... 183

Moshili, Farqad, former employee, Coalition Provisional Authority, statement 186

Multi-National Force-Iraq: 

October 11, 2006, article .................................................................................. 190

December 25, 2006, article ............................................................................... 192

PEN American Center, Ron Chernow, President, and Larry Siems, Director, 

Freedom to Write and International Programs, New York, New York, statement ...................................................................................................................... 194

Ramaci-Vincent, Lisa, Executive Director, Steven Vincent Foundation, New 

York, New York, statement ................................................................................. 199

Refugees International, Washington, D.C., January 16, 2007, bulletin .............. 207

Sauerbrey, Ellen, Assistant Secretary of State for Population, Refugees and 

Migration, Department of State, Washington, D.C. .......................................... 209

U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, Felice D. Gaer, Chair, 

statement and attachments ................................................................................. 213

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THE PLIGHT OF IRAQI REFUGEES 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2007

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, Washington, DC 

The Committee met, Pursuant to notice, at 2:05 p.m., in room 

226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patrick J. Leahy (chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Also present: Senators Kennedy, Cardin, Specter, and Cornyn. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. LEAHY, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VERMONT 

Chairman LEAHY. Good afternoon. Today our committee will 

focus its attention on the current refugee crisis caused by the deteriorating situation in Iraq. Our hearing comes at a time when the 

momentum for bipartisan reform to address this crisis has never 

been stronger. It continues to grow, and I think that is good news 

in this country. 

I thank our witnesses for being here, two of whom are going to 

be appearing at considerable personal risk. I appreciate the cooperation of the members and the press in helping us keep their 

identity hidden. 

I am going to turn the hearing over, in just a moment, to Senator 

Kennedy, who will chair the Immigration Subcommittee when the 

committee organizes. But I would like to say just a couple of words. 

Among the estimated 1.8 million Iraqis who have fled their country, there are hundreds of thousands of destitute refugees who escaped to neighboring countries with little more than they could 

carry. Many have been denied refugee status. They have been 

forced back into Iraq. 

I am particularly concerned that we have not made provisions or 

created the legal authority necessary in this country to secure 

those Iraqis who have aided American efforts there. 

A lot of these are people whom we called upon to help us, and 

now we are not there to help them. We should not repeat the tragic 

and immoral mistake of the Vietnam era and leave friends without 

a refuge and, of course, subject to very violent, and often deadly, 

reprisals. 

I am also concerned about Iraq’s scholars. Many have been killed 

or are presently targeted for assassination. Others have gone into 

hiding. Iraq’s best hope is its younger generation, and if they are 

unable to continue their academic studies their ability to contribute 

to Iraq’s future will be severely damaged. 

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Secretary Sauerbrey, I would like to meet with you soon to discuss ways that we could assist those who have aided our forces in 

Iraq. I want to discuss with you the special plight of Iraq’s scholars, along with the ways we could help them resettle outside Iraq 

where they can safely continue their academic research and instruction. We do not want to have such a brain drain that we have 

nobody there to help if peace ever comes to this troubled area. 

I would hope that today’s hearing also highlights all that still 

needs to be done to help other asylum seekers and refugees, and 

I believe congressional action is overdue to prevent further injustice resulting from the material support bar to refugee admissions. 

It is an issue that is fundamental to America’s role as the leading protector of fundamental human rights. These guiding principles and our national security are not really mutually exclusive. 

Hundreds of people already in the United States are being denied 

asylum, and now they face being returned for prosecution, persecution, and possibly death. 

There are many more things I can say. I will include my full 

statement in the record. 

I would note that the editorial boards of our Nation’s leading 

newspapers have spoken out strongly in recognizing the injustice 

that current law is causing any of the several hundred previously 

admitted refugees and asylees who are being denied reunification 

with their loved ones. 

It is perverse and it should be embarrassing to us as the stewards of a country that has been known throughout our history as 

a safe haven for refugees. So, I am glad many are speaking out. 

I might add, there are conservative religious activists who have 

recently joined our efforts and I applaud them for doing that and 

welcome than to the issue. I ask that a copy of the January 11 letter to Senator Specter and myself from a broad range of organizations—Human Rights Watch, Human Rights First, Hudson Institute, Southern Baptist Convention—be included in the record because change in the material support bar to make it consistent 

with our Nation’s commitment to human rights is something that 

should unite us across ideological and party lines. 

It is time to bring our laws back in line with our values and remind everybody that we are children of immigrants. In my case, 

my mother is first generation. My wife is first generation. This is 

the beckoning country, and we should make it so. 

[The prepared statement of Chairman Leahy appears as a submission for the record.] 

Chairman LEAHY. Senator Specter? 

STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I noted Senator 

Kennedy’s excellent op-ed in the Washington Post recently, and am 

glad to see this hearing, Mr. Chairman, focus on this very pressing 

issue. 

Some 1,600,000 have already fled from Iraq, and another 

1,800,000 are seeking refuge somewhere else. The reference that 

Chairman Leahy made, that we are all children of immigrants, is 

3

certainly true. Both of my parents were immigrants. My mother 

came at the age of six with her family from Russia. 

In 1911, when my father was 18, the Czar wanted to send him 

to Siberia and he did not want to go to Siberia. He heard it was 

cold there. He wanted to go to Kansas instead. It was a close call, 

and he got to Kansas. 

But our laws are explicit in granting refugee status to people 

who are persecuted or have a well-founded fear of being persecuted 

for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular 

social group or political opinion. In my parents’ days, there was 

persecution; the Cossacks, my father told me, would ride down the 

streets of his little town looking for Jews. 

The problem that is faced now in Iraq is one of gigantic proportions. There are hundred of thousands who have gone to neighboring countries. I recently had an opportunity to visit Syria. 

President Bashir Assad talked about the one million who have 

come from Iraq to Syria. That is a factor which could be unifying 

among the Arab countries to try to help the United States reestablish order in Iraq, because their countries are being destabilized by 

the tremendous flux of immigrants. 

When we hear from Secretary Sauerbrey, we will get into the 

issue of how many unallocated spots there are and the capacity of 

the United States to take additional refugees within our existing 

quotas as we take a look at the Immigration Reform bill which will 

be on the docket soon. 

We passed a bill out of the Senate last year, the House passed 

a bill, and regrettably we were unable to conference and come to 

a legislative conclusion. But when we take up this issue again, the 

matter of refugees ought to be high on our agenda to incorporate 

into immigration reform. 

This is a very important hearing and it is good to focus attention 

on it. I look forward to the presentation of the witnesses, especially 

to the individuals who will testify here today, one of whom is a 

Pennsylvanian and one of whom had been a Pennsylvanian, who 

will testify incognito. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LEAHY. Thank you. 

Senator Kennedy? 

STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD M. KENNEDY, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very much, Senator Leahy, for 

scheduling the hearing. 

Senator Specter, Senator Cornyn, who is our Ranking Member on 

the Immigration, Border Security and Refugee Committee, and it 

is good to see Senator Cardin here as well. 

Five years ago, Arthur Helton, perhaps this country’s staunchest 

advocate for the rights of refugees, wrote, ‘‘Refugees matter for a 

wide variety of reasons. Refugees are a product of humanity’s worst 

instincts—the willingness of some persons to oppress others—as 

well as some of its best instincts—the willingness of many to assist 

and protect the helpless. In personal terms, we care about the refugees because of the seed of fear that lurks in all of us that can be 

stated so simply: it could be me.’’

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A year later, Arthur Helton gave his life for his beliefs. He was 

killed in Baghdad in 2003 while meeting with the U.N. Special 

Envoy Se ́rgio Vieira De Mello when a terrorist bomb destroyed the 

U.N. Headquarters in Iraq. 

But his words resonate today, especially as we consider the very 

human cost of the war in Iraq and its tragic effect on the millions 

of Iraqis—men, women and children—who have fled their homes 

and their country to escape the violence of a Nation increasingly 

at war with itself. 

Today in Iraq, according to the High Commissioner for Refugees, 

1.7 million people have been driven from their homes; up to 2 million have sought refuge in neighboring countries, at least 700,000 

in Jordan, 600,000 in Syria, 80,000 in Egypt, 54,000 in Iran, 20,000 

in Lebanon. 

Thousands more are on the move daily. More than 10 percent of 

the people of Iraq are refugees. We will see increasing numbers as 

sectarian, ethnic, and generalized violence continues unabated. 

Like other aspects of the war, we bear a heavy responsibility for 

their plight. As the Iraq Study Group states, ‘‘Events in Iraq have 

been set in motion by American decisions and actions.’’ The study 

group concluded that ‘‘if this refugee situation is not addressed, 

Iraq and the region could further be destabilized and humanitarian 

suffering could be severe. America must respond.’’

Last year, however, the United States admitted only 202 Iraqi 

refugees. A special immigrant visa program for U.S. military Iraq 

and Afghan translators currently has a 6-year waiting list. We can 

do better than that. 

The answer, of course, is not to bring every Iraqi refugee to the 

United States, but we do have a special obligation to keep faith 

with the Iraqis who have bravely worked for us, and often paid a 

terrible price for it by providing them with safe refuge in the 

United States. I hope this hearing will inform us all about how we 

might better assist Iraqi refugees and enable us to deal with it fairly and quickly. 

We should work urgently with Iraq’s neighbors, especially Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, who are bearing the greatest refugee burden. Prompt action is essential to prevent destabilization of the region and to relieve suffering and save lives. 

An international conference sponsored by the countries in the region and the United Nations could be a first step in addressing the 

growing needs of Iraqi refugees and internally displaced people. 

Our Nation is spending $8 billion a month to wage the war in 

Iraq, yet to meet the urgent humanitarian needs of the refugees 

who have fled the war, the State Department plans to spend only 

$20 million in the current fiscal year. 

The U.N. High Commissioner has issued a $60 million appeal to 

fund its work with Iraqis for the next 12 months. Clearly, the 

United States should fund its share of that amount and take other 

steps to ease the burden on countries hosting large numbers of 

these refugees. 

Our witnesses today will testify about personal stories of courage, loyalty, heroism, and tragedy. They represent only a small 

number of countless stories of human indignity and suffering. 

5

Others have been criticized as traitors, infidels, and agents of the 

occupier. Some among them, such as the Chaldean Christians, 

have long been persecuted for their religious beliefs. 

We owe a special duty to protect all of them and their loved ones 

who are being targeted by insurgents and sectarian death squads 

because of their faith or their association with the United States. 

I thank Assistant Secretary Sauerbrey and the Office of the 

United Nation’s High Commissioner for Refugees for being here 

and look forward to their plans for dealing with this extraordinary 

human tragedy. 

We thank the other witnesses for sharing their stories of fear, 

cruelty, and triumph. You are the human faces of this global problem. 

If Senator Cornyn wants to make a comment, we would be glad 

to hear it. 

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Senator CORNYN. America has a proud tradition of providing refuge and comfort to those desperately wishing to escape wars. 

America’s shores are often the last best safe haven. Our tradition 

of opens arms dates back to the founding of this great Nation. 

We should all be proud of the fact that the United States welcomes more refugees than any other country in the world. America’s refugee resettlement program is consistent with the values of 

a Nation committed to compassion. Our refugee policy also advances America’s democratic values, while safeguarding our national interests. Most importantly, it saves lives. 

Today’s hearing is an important one and I, likewise, thank the 

Chairman for scheduling it. I believe it will bring into focus the 

need to take a comprehensive approach toward our policy in Iraq, 

with the ultimate goal of helping the Iraqis achieve stability and 

security. 

Anything short of achieving this goal will pose a substantial security risk to our Nation, jeopardize our forces in Iraq, and dramatically escalate the refugee problem in this region. 

Sadly, the Iraqis have long suffered from human rights abuses 

at the hands of a brutal, blood-thirsty dictator. It reminds me of 

a comment I heard from an Estonian representative at the NATO 

parliamentary assembly a couple of years ago when he said, ‘‘Peace 

in these repressive countries is more bloody than war.’’

The Iraqis, in the late 1980s, were the subject of a campaign 

begun by Saddam Hussein to exterminate the Kurds, resulting in 

mass executions, the disappearance of noncombatants in the tens 

of thousands, and the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands. 

In the 1990s, while continuing his oppression and slaughter of 

the Kurds, Saddam expanded his war on innocent civilians to the 

south, where estimates of Shi’a deaths range from tens of thousands to more than 100,000. 

Today, as has been mentioned, there is no shortage of refugees 

from Iraq, and many more internally displaced persons have suffered within that nation for quite some time. 

6

Indeed, when authorizing the President to use force in Iraq, Congress included as a justification this clause: ‘‘Whereas, Iraq persists 

in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by 

continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population, 

while the refugee and internally displaced person situation in Iraq 

is severe, it would only worsen by degrees of magnitude if we followed the plans that some have offered to withdraw from Iraq before it is able to sustain itself, to govern itself, and defend itself.’’

I am not alone in this belief. Just this past Friday, I asked Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and the chairman of the Joint 

Chiefs of State, General Peter Pace, what the humanitarian consequences would be if the United States were to pull out of Iraq 

immediately. 

They, too, are convinced that a premature draw-down of troops 

would lead to a sharp increase in internally displaced persons, increased numbers of murders, sectarian violence, and ethnic cleansing. As a compassionate Nation, we cannot stand by and allow further tragedy to ensue. 

So, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to receiving the testimony of 

our distinguished witnesses here today and working with my colleagues to try to find a way to address this current situation. 

We must, I would hope, resist taking actions that actually worsen the plight of current refugees in Iraq, exacerbate the refugee situation, and, at the same time, undermine our national interest. 

Thank you very much. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very much. 

Our first witness is the Honorable Ellen Sauerbrey, who became 

Assistant Secretary of State for Population, Refugees and Migration in January of 2006. She heads the Refugee Bureau at the 

State Department that provides protection assistance and sustainable solutions for refugees, victims of conflict and advances, and 

U.S. population and migration policies. 

Ms. Sauerbrey formerly served as U.S. Representative to the 

United Nations Commission on the Status of Women. Before that, 

she served as the Minority Leader of the Maryland House of Delegates and was the 1994–1998 Republican nominee for Governor of 

Maryland. 

We want to welcome Assistant Secretary Sauerbrey. We had a 

good chance to visit with you on this committee when we have 

talked with the Secretary of State about refugee matters. We know 

your own strong interest and commitment, and we welcome you to 

the committee. 

STATEMENT OF ELLEN SAUERBREY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY 

OF STATE FOR POPULATION, REFUGEES AND MIGRATION, 

DEPARTMENT OF STATE, WASHINGTON, DC 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the committee. It is an honor to have the opportunity to appear today to discuss issues involving displaced Iraqis and Iraqi 

refugees. 

I welcome the opportunity to detail some of the actions the administration is taking to provide protection and assistance for 

Iraqis in neighboring countries of first asylum, and for populations 

7

inside Iraq. I want to assure this committee that this issue is the 

very top priority for my bureau. 

The administration shares your concern about the current situation facing Iraqi refugees and is committed to helping conditions 

for them in countries of first asylum. We are working closely with 

host governments in the region, with the United Nation’s High 

Commissioner for Refugees, the International Committee for the 

Red Cross, and non-government organizations. 

Through these partners, we are providing assistance to the most 

needy refugees and are seeing durable solutions, including resettlement to the United States for those that require this important 

form of international protection. 

Since 2003, the administration has provided more than $800,000 

to support the World Food Program, UNHCR, ICRC, the International Organization for Migration, and a range of NGO’s that 

provide direct assistance to returning Iraqi refugees, internally displaced persons, and third-country national refugees that are inside 

of Iraq, and Iraqi refugees outside of Iraq to help meet basic humanitarian needs and support reintegration programs. 

U.S. Government support has increased the capacity of Iraqi government ministries working with refugees and internally displaced 

persons, provided training to non- governmental organizations 

serving refugees, and assisted numerous victims of conflict. These 

programs helped reintegrate many of the 300,000 Iraqi refugees 

who returned home between 2003 and 2006, and helped many of 

the 500,000 IDPs inside Iraq. 

However, due to the upsurge in sectarian violence in 2006, this 

trend of repatriation has reversed itself and at present more Iraqis 

are fleeing their homes to other areas of Iraq and to neighboring 

countries than are returning. UNHCR estimates that between 1 to 

1.4 million Iraqis are in countries bordering Iraq, though a large 

percentage of them had left prior to 2003. 

We believe the current population of Iraqis in Jordan and Syria 

is a mixture of Iraqis who departed before 2003 and the newer arrivals. Many organizations, including UNHCR, have raised concerns about new arrivals and growing numbers of Iraqis in these 

bordering countries. 

Though neither UNHCR, nor the governments of Jordan or 

Syria, have definitive figures on the size of the population. UNHCR 

has argued that the refugee crisis it predicted would occur, but 

that did not materialize after the invasion in 2003, is now upon us. 

Although we lack firm figures on how many Iraqis are seeking 

refuge in neighboring countries, we do know that many left with 

minimal resources and are living on the margins. 

Other than alRuwaished, which shelters a stable population of 

third-country nationals from Iraq, Jordan and UNHCR have not established refugee camps. Anecdotal reporting also indicates that 

many Iraqi children in these countries do not have access to 

schools or to adequate health care. 

We need better information on the needs of Iraqis in these countries, particularly their protection concerns. We are encouraging 

the Government of Jordan to allow a comprehensive survey of the 

needs of Iraqis in Jordan that would guide the international comVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
8

munity in focusing assistance and protection activities. UNHCR is 

planning to conduct a similar survey in Syria. 

We hope our partners will be able to complete these surveys in 

the very near future. And I might mention that I met with the 

Charge from Jordan this morning to reinforce how important it is 

that this survey moves quickly. 

However, we are not waiting for precise numbers before responding to the needs of vulnerable Iraqis in neighboring countries. We 

are continuing our support to UNHCR and NGO programs benefiting Iraqis in these countries now. 

In 2006, the U.S. provided nearly $8 million of UNHCR’s operational budget for Iraq, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. In 2006, we 

also provided $3.3 million in funding to the international Catholic 

Migration Commission to assist the most vulnerable Iraqis in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. 

In 2007, we are expanding support for these, and similar, programs serving needy Iraqis in neighboring countries. But our ability to respond to the growing needs depends on receiving sufficient 

resources. 

The President’s fiscal year 2007 request for migration and refugee assistance included $20 million for Iraqi humanitarian needs. 

The administration will continue to monitor the recent refugee and 

displacement situation and the ability of the international community to address the increased needs. 

Our support for UNHCR’s protection mandate and our diplomatic 

efforts with host countries is essential to preserve the principals of 

first asylum and to ensure that assistance reaches vulnerable refugees. 

We continue to press all governments in the region to keep their 

borders open to those with a fear of persecution and to allow assistance and protection to reach these populations. 

Jordan and Syria have been generous hosts to Iraqis for many 

years and have largely kept their borders open as people have continued to flow out of Iraq in 2006. Both Jordan and Syria are also 

hosts to sizable Palestinian refugee populations, and we recognize 

the additional burdens Iraqi refugees place on these countries. 

We are working with UNHCR and with host governments to see 

how we can help bolster their capacity to provide the protection 

and assistance so Iraqis do not over-stretch the social service networks and the ability of these governments to continue to receive 

Iraqis that are seeking asylum. 

Another aspect of our response to Iraqi refugee needs in the region is an expansion of our U.S. resettlement program. Given the 

large number of Iraqis thought to be in Syria and Jordan, with 

some estimates as high as 1.4 million, the U.S. and other thirdcountry resettlement programs will play a small, but important, 

role in meeting the needs of Iraq refugees. 

For that reason, we are working closely with UNHCR to 

prioritize U.S. resettlement for the most vulnerable Iraqi refugees. 

The U.S. has been resettling Iraqi refugees since the mid-1970s. To 

date, the U.S. has resettled more than 37,000 Iraqis. The vast majority of them were victims of Saddam Hussein’s regime. 

9

As the number of Iraqis arriving in Jordan and Syria increased 

in 2006, we have acted aggressively to expand our ability to offer 

more Iraqis refuge in the United States. In 2006, we provided $400,000 of funding directly targeted to 

support UNHCR resettlement operations. These expanded operations will increase registration efforts to help identify vulnerable 

cases and boost the number of referrals to our program and to 

those of other resettlement countries. 

We have provided an additional $500,000 for this purpose in 

2007. This is very important capacity building for UNHCR for the 

resettlement program to increase its ability to provide referrals. 

We do not have a quota on the number of Iraqis who can be resettled in the United States as refugees. The process of resettling 

Iraqis is the same as resettling Iraqis in need of protection from 

other parts of the world. 

The process includes identifying those in greatest need from 

among so many, conducting adequate background security checks, 

completing personal interviews, with adjudications, and coordinating the transportation and logistics for individuals approved for 

resettlement. 

In processing eligible Iraqis for resettlement in the United 

States, we will remain vigilant in preventing terrorists from gaining admission to our country. 

I want to recognize that some of the special populations that 

have received attention from humanitarian organizations in 2006: 

minority populations in Iraq and Iraqis who have worked closely 

with the United States in Iraq. 

Some have called for special protection and programs for these 

people, including religious minorities such as Christians who have 

fled Iraq or those who have worked for the American government 

or U.S. organizations or companies. Many of these Iraqis are in refugee in Jordan, Syria or Turkey and may be unable to return to 

Iraq because they fear for their lives. 

We intend to ensure that these special populations receive full 

and expedited consideration and access to the U.S. resettlement 

program and we are encouraging them to contact UNHCR to make 

their needs known. 

I want to take just a moment to talk about important programs 

the U.S. Government supports inside of Iraq. While recent reports 

have highlighted the conditions of Iraqis in neighboring countries, 

we must not forget populations of concern still inside of Iraq itself. 

UNHCR and the Iraqi government estimate that there are as 

many as 1.7 million internally displaced persons, and another 

44,082 third-country national refugees in Iraq. 

The U.S. Government continues to support UNHCR, ICRC, and 

key NGO programs inside the country that assist communities with 

new internally displaced persons, recently returned refugees, and 

other victims of violence. 

For example, we support important programs of ICRC that upgrade hospitals throughout the country and provide medical services to those who are innocent victims of the armed insurgency. 

We also provide resources and diplomatic support to programs 

that seek to protect, assist, and provide durable solutions for Palestinians, Turkish, and Iranian refugees inside Iraq. 

10

In 2005 and 2006, we supported the movement of over 3,000 Iranian Kurdish refugees from the Al Tash refugee camp near the 

strife-torn town of al Ramadi to a safe area in Northern Iraq, providing permanent housing, employment programs, and local integration support. 

We are also working closely with UNHCR and the governments 

of Iraq and Turkey to enable the voluntary return of more than 

10,000 Turkish Kurdish refugees from the Mahkmour refugee camp 

to their home villages in Turkey. 

The U.S. Agency for International Development continues to support the protection and assistance requirements of internally displaced persons in Iraq, mostly through non-governmental organizations. 

These NGO’s work closely with new IDPs to provide life-saving 

and sustainable assistance throughout the country. The administration will continue to implement existing programs and monitor 

the displacement situation. 

Mr. Chairman, we appreciate your leadership on Iraqi refugee 

issues and we look forward to working closely with you as we seek 

to expand protection for these Iraqis, third-country national refugees, and IDPs, and to ensure that the vulnerable among them receive assistance, access to social services, and for the most vulnerable, the opportunity to resettle to a third country. 

I thank you for the opportunity to address the committee. This 

concludes my testimony. I would be happy to answer your questions. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very much, Madam Secretary. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Sauerbrey appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator KENNEDY. We will take 6-minute rounds. 

I thank you, Madam Secretary. We have enjoyed working with 

you personally. I am going to make some observations just generally about the policy of the administration. 

I think this is an instance where, not unlike a number of other 

issues, whether it has been IEDs, the insurgency, or the armor, we 

are really missing the crisis and it has effectively exploded. There 

were 202 refugees admitted last year. Twenty million dollars for all 

refugees, despite our $8 billion a month for the war, $20 billion for 

next year. Money is not everything, but is a pretty good indicator 

about where the administration is. 

Now, I want to ask you if you will be of some help to us, first 

of all, in establishing special humanitarian parole. We have done 

it for groups in the Soviet Union. We have done it on Cuba. We 

have done it in Vietnam. We have done it at other times. 

Will you take that back to the Department and—at least I would 

hope you would—urge the Department to consider that, given the 

nature of the crisis. But will you give the assurance that you will 

take it back to the Department and give us some response about 

whether they will go ahead and do that, or if they will not, the reasons for it? Would you? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. If I might add, I met 

just this morning with someone from Consular Affairs and we were 

talking about just this issue. 

Senator KENNEDY. Good. 

11

Second, the commitment to activate a system to process refugees 

inside Iraq. That is enormously important. You have got a series 

of regional embassies. You have got the green zone. You have 

Mosul, Kirkuk, Basra, Hillah. 

Will you give us assurance that you will go back to the Department and consider activating a system to process refugees inside 

Iraq? Then I would like to know, this could also include the American embassies inside the country. Will you look at both of those? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that. We certainly 

will. My Bureau has been holding conversations with our embassy—another one is scheduled tomorrow—to try to look at procedures that can be used. It is a complicated issue because of the security problems of people reaching our embassy, people coming into 

the green zone. 

We are, however, looking at ways that we can find to do processing inside of Iraq, as well as urging people who are extremely 

vulnerable to seek protection in Jordan, where they are more readily accessed. 

Senator KENNEDY. That is true. But many of these countries are 

closing the borders now. I mean, the Jordanians, the Lebanese, the 

Syrians are hard pressed. The Saudis have closed theirs. So it is 

very difficult, if the borders are closed for these individuals, to get 

in. They cannot do it inside Iraq, they cannot do it outside. 

We are going to hear from various witnesses, stories of extraordinary courage and what they have done in terms of working with 

American service men. We are going to hear a very important story 

of that nature and the risks that they have gone through, in this 

instance translators, but in another instance a person that was 

providing water for American servicemen. 

So, inside the country as well as processing in embassies in that 

region, very, very important. I want to hear back from you, please, 

about what the Department is going to do on this. 

Next, should we have the 20,000 surplus in terms of the numbers, the 20,000 reserved? Those numbers are approved by the 

President of the United States. We have not had the resources—

we have talked about this previously—to do it. There are additional 

resources that are going to be necessary for the resettlement. 

I am thinking, we are talking about whether there are translators, those that work with military personnel, those that I think 

who have worked even with American independent contractors, 

those who worked with the press. They are all under the same kind 

of risks—we will hear more about that later. 

And if it is going to be the resources that are going to be necessary to be able to do it, we want to be sure, when that supplemental comes up, in terms of the one that we anticipate, that you 

will make the request for adequate resources to be able to process 

this. 

I know you cannot answer that precisely. I have been around 

here long enough. But give us your best shot at it, will you? 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. SAUERBREY. First of all, I want to assure you that our top 

priority—and we are absolutely seized with the issue—is how we 

can help those people who have worked for, and provided assistVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
12

ance to, the U.S. Government. That has got to be an absolute top 

priority. 

In terms of the resources, if we are fortunate enough to receive 

the funding that the Senate approved for our admissions program, 

we will have the 70,000 number that the President asked for, 

which has the 20,000 unallocated reserve. We are eagerly waiting 

for a resolution to this number. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, if it does not come I hope he will give 

consideration to a supplemental. 

My time is just about up. But this idea of a regional conference 

in the area. You have individuals who have moved in all of these 

countries, including Syria, including Iran. 

I think we are going to hear later in the day from the U.N. High 

Commissioner about the possibilities of having some regional conference, either under the Arab League or the other possibilities 

there. 

Can you give us some assurance that at least we are going to be 

a constructive and positive force and that we will participate in 

such an endeavor if it is under the leadership of the U.N. High 

Commissioner? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. I spoke to the High Commissioner on Saturday 

and he told me that they are moving forward with the OIC, and 

expect to have some sort of a meeting under those auspices in the 

spring. We certainly look forward to working in any way that we 

can to cooperate. This has got to be a coordinated effort. 

The United States is a very generous country, but we cannot do 

it alone, nor should we be doing it without coordinating with other 

countries in the region, as well as other resettlement countries and 

assistance countries. 

Senator KENNEDY. I want to thank you. My time is up. I hope 

you will get back to us in a timely way, because time is of such 

importance. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator KENNEDY. Senator Specter? 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Madam Secretary, in your statement you noted that there are 1.7 

million internally displaced people in Iraq. In your statement, you 

note that the United States has helped to resettle 37,000. That is 

a very small percentage of those who are in need. Is that adequate? 

What more can be done? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Senator Specter, we recognize that if all the resettlement countries in the world take the maximum number that 

they can absorb, we will only touch a small percentage of this population. 

Senator SPECTER. What more can the United States do? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. What we think our effort needs primarily to be 

focused, on assistance and protection of refugees in the countries 

of first asylum. 

Senator SPECTER. But, Madam Secretary, how can we increase 

the number so that we do more for more than 37,000? Would you 

take that back to the Department? Because that is a relatively 

small number being accommodated. 

How about the unallocated spots where some 20,000 are allocated each year without any specific designation and a great many 

13

of those spots have gone unused? Two questions. How many spots 

are there unallocated, and why are more not being used for the 

Iraqis? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Senator Specter, the Presidential determination 

was 70,000, at the time that that planning document was put together last spring when that work began, there was not at that 

point a massive outflow. We had allocated in the planning document 5,500 slots for the region. We left the 20,000 unallocated reserve for the purpose of being able to have flexibility in the program. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, why not use them now when there is 

such a pressing need? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. We certainly are hoping that we will be funded 

to use them. At this point, we—

Senator SPECTER. Is it only a matter of funding? Is the State Department prepared to use those unallocated spots for the Iraqis? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. We would be using a significant number of 

them. 

Senator SPECTER. When you say ‘‘significant’’, what do you mean 

by that? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. I would say the overwhelming majority. There 

are other pressing areas in the world as well, but because of the 

significance of this outflow, I am sure that the largest portion by 

far would go to Iraqis. 

Senator SPECTER. Madam Secretary, as to the 37,000 who have 

come to the United States, is there qualitative information as to 

what kinds of people these are? Are they Ph.Ds? Are they scientists? Are they skilled? Are those who are coming from Iraq to 

the United States adding significantly to the productivity of our 

country? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. I think that we can say that for the majority of 

people who emigrate to our country. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, if they are well-qualified and if they are 

seeking asylum, if they want to go, we are not promoting a brain 

drain on Iraq. We are not asking their people to come to the United 

States. But where they are in need of refuge and they can benefit 

our country, that would be another very positive reason. 

Let me turn, now, to the idea of an international conference. I 

had an opportunity to visit in Syria and talk to President Bashir 

Assad in late December. He talked about Syria’s willingness to host 

an international conference where the warring factions from Iraq 

would be brought to Damascus. He said he had already gotten the 

cooperation of Turkey. He intended to invite other Arab countries. 

He expressed concern about, as he put it, one million Iraqis who 

have come into Syria. 

Would this not be a very important resource for the United 

States to activate and to be willing to have a dialog with Syria, at 

least to the extent of dealing with this problem which of mutual 

concern? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. This would be a foreign policy issue, Senator, 

that would be a little bit out of my—

Senator SPECTER. Well, you are in the State Department. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. This is true, and I will certainly take this back 

to the Secretary as a suggestion that you are posing. 

14

Senator SPECTER. Well, she has heard my suggestion. What do 

you think about it? [Laughter.] 

Ms. SAUERBREY. I think that any time that you can—

Senator SPECTER. She has heard my suggestion and I have heard 

from her. But, now, what do you think? What do you think about 

it? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. I think that any time that you can get parties 

talking to each other, that something constructive has a likelihood 

of coming out of it. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, it certainly is a gigantic problem. The 

countries in the region—this could be some common ground. When 

we talk to Syria, we might also take President Bashir Assad up on 

his offer to try to control the border. 

We are talking about trying to stop the insurgents and the terrorists from coming into Iraq. He complains—and I have not had 

a chance yet to brief the Secretary as she is traveling, but I will 

be doing so next week—that he needs cooperation from the United 

States. 

In the last 7 seconds that I have, let me ask one final question. 

That is, what steps are we taking to be as sure as we can that the 

refugees who come into the United States under this program are 

not terrorists themselves? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Senator, every refugee who comes into the 

United States has to be individually adjudicated by the Department of Homeland Security. They are screened for their background and every effort is being made. 

One of the reasons that you are seeing so few Iraqis that have 

come into the United States since 2003 is because of an enhanced 

security review that has been required that has made it very difficult for these Iraq refugees who have been referred to us by 

UNHCR to pass through the screening mechanism. That enhanced 

security review has also led to UNHCR not making referrals to the 

United States. 

So the security issue is very critical and very key to this whole 

issue, both in terms of how we balance the protection of the United 

States and, at the same time, maintain the humanitarian nature 

of our country to be a welcoming country to refugees. 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you for your contribution to public service, Madam Secretary. I know you have a long resume of activity 

and public life, from State legislature to candidacy for government. 

We thank you for that active participation and for the job you are 

now doing. So, carry our message back to Secretary Rice. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you. 

Senator KENNEDY. Senator Cardin? 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you. 

Secretary Sauerbrey, it is nice to see you again. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I call you Mr. 

Speaker? 

Senator CARDIN. Not here. But that is fine. 

[Laughter.] 

It is nice to see you. We had a chance to work together for many 

years in the Maryland legislature and it is nice to have you before 

the Judiciary Committee. 

15

I want to followup a little bit on Senator Specter’s point about 

37,000, because if I understand correctly, most of those 37,000 

came to the United States when Saddam Hussein was in power in 

Iraq. 

So do you know the numbers that we have admitted under refugee status since the current campaign by the United States and 

coalition forces? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Yes, Senator. We have admitted, since 2003, 

466. The main reason that that number dropped so dramatically, 

as I explained to Senator Specter, is after 2003 the Congress enacted significant changes in the law that created a need for muchenhanced security testing. 

Senator CARDIN. And I certainly understand that. But it just underscored a point that Senator Specter made and Senator Kennedy 

made. Knowing the numbers of refugees that are in Iraq and in the 

surrounding countries, knowing full well that many of the individuals who are seeking asylum in the United States are doing so because of helping the United States and Iraq, as the two witnesses 

that will be testifying later, and the ordeal that they had to go 

through in order to reach safety, I am certain many have not 

reached safety. I think we have a much stronger obligation to make 

this country available. 

I just really want to underscore a suggestion Senator Kennedy 

made about being able to provide services within Iraq for those 

who seek asylum in the United States. It is just impossible for 

many to go through what these two witnesses, who later will be 

testifying, did to come to the United States without some assistance from us in Iraq or in that region. So it seems to me that is 

the least we can do. 

The fact that we only have 400 that have been able to make it 

through our process to be able to come to America, I think speaks 

volumes about the need for us to find a policy that will be more 

accommodating so that we accomplish some of our responsibility 

here to help those that are in need. 

So I hope you will do more than carry it back. I hope that we 

will come up with some workable plans in order to make this program work in our country. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you, Senator. As I indicated earlier, we 

are in discussions with our embassy, not only in Baghdad, but our 

embassies in the bordering countries so that we are trying to find 

a way to address those inside of Iraq as well as those who have 

reached, perhaps, Amman. 

We are looking at special visas. We are looking at special benefit 

parole. We are looking at trying to find some way to do in-country 

refugee processing. I have to tell you, it is a very difficult issue to 

try to figure out how to do this within Iraq, within the green zone, 

within our embassy. 

How to do this, does not have an easy solution. I just want to 

assure you that we are working very diligently, trying to figure out 

a way to make it work. 

Senator CARDIN. I appreciate that. 

But one of my concerns is, many of these individuals are not displaced within Iraq. These are individuals that perhaps are living 

16

in their homes, in their community, but are in fear of being killed 

or their families killed because they helped America. 

So I do not know if we have any numbers as to how many are 

in fear of their life, or fear of their family’s life because of being 

identified with the United States, but it would be, I think, important for this committee if we had better information to work on. 

I would just encourage you to try to get the numbers from our 

command in Iraq as to what we are looking at as far as families 

that are at real risk today. One of the tragedies in Iraq is that we 

are not able to guarantee the safety of these families. So, I think 

it is obvious that we need to do what we can in Iraq, but we also 

need to make sure people are given as much safety as possible. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. We have developed an expedited system recently 

with UNHCR whereby we are able to provide them with information of people who have already chosen to leave Iraq that are moving to surrounding countries so that we can alert them to immediately process. 

In fact, just this week we have gotten an individual who had 

been brought to our attention by an NGO that had gone to Amman, 

and we were able to notify UNHCR. They brought them in and 

gave them refugee status immediately, and they have been referred 

to our resettlement program. So, the process is under way. 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you. 

Senator Cornyn? 

Senator CORNYN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Madam Secretary, in 2003 I had a chance to travel to Iraq with 

the Senate Armed Services Committee. I remember standing on the 

edge of a mass grave located in Iraq and was told by a U.N. representative that approximately 400,000 Iraqis lay dead in similar 

mass graves throughout the country, victims of the Saddam Hussein regime—Kurds, Shi’a and others who resisted his tyranny. 

The U.N. representative also, at the same time, said that about a 

million Iraqis had fled the country to other parts of the world. 

From what you said earlier, it sounded like the refugee flow out 

of Iraq reversed itself somewhat following Saddam’s fall, but then 

again reversed itself with the outflow exceeding the inflow. 

Could you go through those numbers again and the relative time 

periods? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Yes. Thank you, Senator. This is such an interesting and complex issue, I can tell you, I came into my position 

just about exactly a year ago, and at that time we were touting the 

fact that repatriation was so successful because most of the resources that we were spending at that time were to return people. 

A very large number of Iraqis were returning to Iraq and we were 

funding the assistance programs to sustain them. 

Senator CORNYN. And when did that change? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. That changed, largely, following the Sumara 

bombing in April of last year. So it really was not until about, I 

would say, July or August that we started becoming aware that 

there was a large number of people moving in the other direction. 

Senator CORNYN. When looking at a difficult problem, I think 

you would probably agree with me that it is important not only to 

17

look at what the effects are, but what the cause may be, of course, 

in trying to solve this problem. 

Would you agree with this: if there is anything that we might be 

able to do about the cause of the refugees flowing out of Iraq in 

fear of their safety because of the sectarian violence and the unstable environment, if there is anything we could do to stabilize Iraq 

to allow Iraqis to govern themselves and to defend themselves, it 

would go a long way to stemming the tide of people leaving the 

country out of fear for their own safety? 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Senator, there is no question that throughout 

the world most people do not want to be resettled in third countries. They want to go home. Refugees want to go home. They want 

to live in safety and dignity in their homes. 

So as we look at the solutions to this problem, and recognizing 

that only a small percentage under the best of circumstances are 

going to find an opportunity to resettle somewhere else, they are 

going to have to be the most vulnerable that we are able to identify 

that need resettlement that probably, for whatever reason, may 

never be able to go home. But making Iraq a stable country where 

the violence is brought under control is the most important thing 

that we could do for our refugee program. 

Senator CORNYN. Well, I will acknowledge the obvious and say 

our policy in Iraq is controversial. But what I hope is not controversial is our desire to try to solve this problem, not only in terms of 

the instability created in the Middle East and the likelihood of regional conflict and another failed state serving as a launching pad 

for future terrorist attacks, but also for the millions of people who 

are fleeing the danger in that country. 

I just hope that all of us in public life, those who have taken an 

oath to represent our constituents, to protect and defend the 

United States, will try to look for constructive alternatives and not 

just criticize. 

I think one of the most distressing things about the public debate 

about the way forward in Iraq is while the President has consulted 

with the vast array of people across the political and ideological 

spectrum, and with the best military minds available in our country and has come up with a plan, there are those who would simply 

criticize that plan and who have nothing else to offer by way of an 

alternative. 

I would hope this would be one of those things from a humanitarian standpoint, from the standpoint of simple human compassion, that we could rise above the typical contentiousness in Washington, the partisanship, and the divisive debates and try to find 

some way to find common cause to bring stability to Iraq and to 

allow what perhaps is the most humane thing we could possibly 

do—allow Iraqis to return to their home and to live in peace and 

safety and stability. 

So I hope, while we look at the effects of the turmoil and violence 

in Iraq and we try to deal with that as well as we can, we also will 

not ignore the cause and we will work together to try to find solutions. 

Thank you very much. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you, Senator. 

18

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very much, Madam Secretary. We 

look forward to hearing from you. We appreciate your appearance 

here this afternoon. 

Ms. SAUERBREY. Thank you. 

Senator KENNEDY. We will move toward the next panel of witnesses. We will hear testimonies and have the opportunity to ask 

questions of the first two witnesses on this panel, and then I will 

ask that the remainder of the witnesses on this panel would take 

their seats. 

In order to protect the identity of our two witnesses and the lives 

of their families, I am going to ask that the audience and members 

of the press refrain from taking any pictures or video shooting of 

the witnesses during the testimony, and I thank you for your cooperation. 

Before I begin, I would like to commend each of the witnesses on 

this panel and their families for their courage in coming to testify 

and to tell their stories. Before introducing them, I would like to 

recognize the law firm of Morgan Lewis from Philadelphia and the 

Villanova Law School CARE Clinic. These attorneys and law students have been incredibly valuable to the witnesses testifying before us today, and I want to offer my thanks to Dino Privitera from 

Morgan Lewis, Brian Watson from Morgan Lewis, Michelle 

Pistone, Villanova Law School, who is a professor. She is strongly 

committed to this pro bono work in the law school. 

Sean Burke, Villanova Law School, and Robert Kidwell, 

Villanova Law School. Both the law firm and these law students—

you will hear the result of their work—have just performed nobly 

and they deserve the highest commendation in terms of legal profession. 

They have made an extraordinary difference. They have been 

enormously helpful to this committee and their work is going to be 

exceedingly helpful to us, and I am sure the administration, as we 

go forward. 

Our first witness, Sami, is the first-ever recipient of the special 

immigrant translator visa from Iraq. He is a former interpreter 

and translator for the U.S. and the coalition forces of Mosul. 

Our second witness is John, who, along with his family, was 

granted asylum in the United States just a few months ago. He is 

a former truck driver, contracted by the U.S. military to supply 

water in its service camps. We will hear from John and his interpreter, Ameara Mattia. I am very, very grateful to them for their 

presence here today. 

Then we will introduce the remainder of our panel. I might just 

take a moment now to introduce Captain Zachary Iscol of the U.S. 

Marine Corps. He is currently assigned as a Team Leader in Company A, Foreign Military Training Unit, Marine Forces Special Operations Command. 

He was deployed to Iraq, where he was in charge of a combined 

action platoon comprised of 200 Iraqi soldiers and 30 U.S. Marines. 

His platoon became a model for successful development of Iraqi security forces after fighting on the front lines in the November 4th 

assault to clear Fallujah. The platoons of Iraq soldiers were some 

of the first to participate in high-density combat operations. He 

19

later conducted security operations throughout Iraq’s Anbar province. 

He is a recipient of the Bronze Star medal with Combat-Distinguished V device, and the Combat Action ribbon. He will talk about 

the importance of Iraqi translators to the success of their mission. 

Then we have Lisa Ramaci-Vincent, who is the Executive Director of the Steven Vincent Foundation, which was created to assist 

families of indigenous journalists in regions of conflict throughout 

the world who are killed while doing their jobs, and also to support 

the work of female journalists in those regions. Previously she 

worked in the American Furniture and Folk Art Department at 

Sotheby’s Auction House. 

Then we will hear from Ken Bacon, who serves as the president 

of Refugees International. From 1994 to 2001, he was the Assistant 

Secretary of Public Affairs, Department of Defense, where he advised the Secretary of Defense and other top officials. From 1969 

to 1994, he was a reporter, editor, and columnist with the Wall 

Street Journal. He has appeared before our committee on a number 

of occasions on the issues of refugees, and we are grateful to all of 

them. 

So we will start, if we might, with Sami. 

STATEMENT OF SAMI AL-OBIEDY, FORMER TRANSLATOR FOR 

THE U.S. ARMED FORCES, PENNSYLVANIA 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. I would like to thank Chairman Leahy, Ranking 

Member Specter, Senator Kennedy, and members of the Senate Judiciary Committee for providing me the opportunity to testify and 

share my experiences with you as a former Iraqi translator assisting coalition and U.S. forces in Iraq. I am privileged and honored 

to do so. 

In order to protect my identity, and because of the concerns for 

the safety of my family back home in Iraq, I am testifying here 

today under the name of Sami Al-Obiedy. 

I am a 27-year-old Sunni Arab from Mosul, Iraq. In April of 

2003, shortly after U.S. troops arrived in Mosul, I volunteered to 

work as an Iraqi translator. I welcomed the opportunity to help 

U.S. and coalition forces because I believed that they had come to 

liberate Iraq from years of tyranny and oppression under Saddam’s 

regime, under which I had lived my entire life. 

In my role as a translator, I helped U.S. and coalition forces 

build trust and working relationships with local Iraqi government 

officials, business, civic, and religious leaders. I accompanied U.S. 

soldiers on hundreds of convoys through hostile territory. Often the 

military vehicles in which we traveled were targeted by anti-Iraqi 

insurgents and terrorists with roadside bombs, rocket-propelled 

grenades, and ambush and sniper fire. 

During the time I served as a translator, I honestly believed I 

would be killed. For instance, I translated many discussions between U.S. forces and Mosul Police Chief Burhawi, who was eventually arrested in November of 2004 for working with terrorists 

and who was involved in the murder of Osama Kashmula, the Governor of Nineveh province. 

In September of 2004, Governor Kashmulla was en route to a 

meeting in Baghdad when his convoy was attacked by insurgents. 

20

The Iraqi police, under the command of Chief Kheiri Barhawi, had 

placed a towel over the Governor’s window to shield him from the 

sun. In fact, the towel was to mark the spot where insurgents 

aimed their bullets which killed Kashmulla, the Governor of the 

province. 

I am saddened to say that the number of Iraqis who have lost 

their lives for the cause of freedom and democracy in Iraq is too 

long to recount today. Let me give you but one example. Samir, the 

lead interpreter for the Task Force Public Affairs Office was executed by several gunmen on a crowded street on his way to work. 

After being taken hostage by insurgents, he attempted to escape 

from his captors because he knew better than anyone the horrible 

fate that Iraqis who worked for coalition forces faced. 

He broke free at an intersection and ran into a crowded open 

market. The terrorists chased him down and shot him in the back. 

One of the terrorists then calmly approached Samir, stood over 

him, and shot him point blank in the face and walked away. 

I, too, have been targeted for death. My name was listed on the 

doors of several mosques calling for my death. Supposed friends of 

mine saw my name on the list and turned on me because they believed I was a traitor. 

Encouraged by many U.S. soldiers, I decided that I would leave 

Iraq on November 9 of 2005. As it turned out, I almost never made 

it. On November 7, I was seriously injured in a targeted car bombing. I was in a car traveling through a Mosul neighborhood when 

a suicide bomber, in a car directly behind me, blew himself up. I 

was hit by shrapnel in the face, bloodied and dazed. I am fortunate 

to be alive. 

Following this brush with death, I fled Iraq. Upon my arrival in 

the United States, I sought advice for obtaining asylum. My attorneys prepared and filed my applications for asylum and application 

for special immigrant status under the newly enacted law that provides protective status to those of us who served as translators for 

the American forces in Iraq. 

In June of 2006, I learned that I had been granted special immigrant status. As a result, today I live free from the fear of persecution and threats to my life that I faced on a daily basis in Iraq. 

My hope is that all brave Iraqis who worked and braved so much 

will have the same chance as I have had to live in freedom. 

As it did with me, the road to a free and democratic Iraq begins, 

first and foremost, in the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. 

Without the ability to communicate with the Iraqi people in their 

own language, democracy and freedom will be at risk. 

Terrorists understand this concept all too well and that is why 

they have, and will continue to, specially target Iraqi translators 

and kill those who have dared to give freedom and democracy a 

voice in Iraq. 

Senators, I am happy to answer any questions. 

Senator KENNEDY. Very good. Thank you very much. 

We will come back to some questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Al-Obiedy appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator KENNEDY. We will listen, if we could, to John. We will 

listen to your testimony and then we will have questions for both. 

21

STATEMENT OF JOHN, FORMER TRUCK DRIVER (SUBCONTRACTOR) FOR THE U.S. ARMED FORCES, CALIFORNIA 

JOHN. Thank you for having me here today. With your permission, I would like to read my entire statement to you in Aramaic 

and then have my statement read to you by my interpreter in 

English. I promise to be brief, and thank you for listening. 

Senator KENNEDY. We will proceed in that way, John. 

JOHN. My name is John and I am 48 years old. I have a brief 

statement to give to the committee today. I would ask that my full 

statement be made a part of the record. 

[The prepared statement of John appears as a submission for the 

record.] 

JOHN. I am a native of Iraq, born in Batnaya, Mosul. My family 

and I were granted asylum in the United States just 2 months ago. 

My wife, my six children and I fled Iraq after terrorist groups 

targeted me and my family because I aided Americans by supplying water to their service camps. I worked for a contractor paid 

by the American military to deliver water to its servicemen. 

Additionally, my family and I are Chaldeans, and thus practicing 

Catholics. As a result, we were often the targets of harassment and 

attacks by the Islamic majority who associated us with the Americans. It is because of this persecution that thousands of my fellow 

Chaldeans have fled Iraq, making Christianity virtually extinct in 

the country. 

On two occasions, I was beaten by Islamic terrorist groups that 

knew my name and threatened that if I did not leave the country, 

I would be killed. 

On the day of the first attack, I went to work delivering water 

to the Americans along with my son. At about 9 that morning, we 

saw what appeared to be a road blockade ahead. Before we could 

realize what was happening, my son and I were dragged out of the 

cab of our truck. We were positioned face down on the side of the 

road by a group of terrorists. 

I could not make out the identity of these men, but they were 

heavily armed and were wearing green bandannas decorated with 

the three stars from the Iraqi flag. They kept saying to me, ‘‘Don’t 

work with the Americans,’’ and one of them struck me in the face 

with the butt of his gun, permanently damaging my jaw. 

Another man twisted my son’s arm so severely that he broke it. 

They knew my name and instructed me that this was a warning 

and that I would be killed if I continued assisting the Americans. 

After they made their threat they departed, leaving us bloodied on 

the side of the road. 

It was at this point that everything began to change for my family. My wife feared for our children’s lives so much that she refused 

to let them go to school and I stayed up most nights watching out 

for any signs of trouble near our home. Despite the warning from 

the first attack, I continued delivering water for the Americans. 

I was attacked a second time, roughly 5 months after the first 

attack. I was alone, making a delivery to the American soldiers. I 

was stopped on the road and a man got into my truck and pointed 

a gun at my head. He ordered me to follow the vehicle in front of 

me. I followed the vehicle into the desert. 

22

When we stopped, five additional terrorists exited the vehicle 

and ordered me out of the truck. The men were speaking Farsi and 

were dressed in long white robes, with masks covering their faces. 

The six terrorists blindfolded me and repeatedly struck me in the 

face with their guns. They called me by name and they knew I had 

been warned before. They told me they were going to kill me. 

I pleaded for my life. Five of the terrorists were yelling, ‘‘Kill 

him.’’ One, however, spoke up and said, ‘‘We will not kill you, but 

you must leave the country immediately.’’

If I did not leave, they promised me they would kidnap and 

slaughter my entire family. They continued to beat me until I was 

knocked unconscious. I awoke several hours later alone in the 

desert. I returned home to tell my family we had to leave the country immediately. 

We had family in America, and since my assistance to American 

soldiers was partly responsible for my family’s persecution, we decided to flee Iraq for the United States. 

Two years ago, after traveling through five countries and four 

continents, we took a taxicab from Mexico to the United States border. Just 1 week later, asylum was granted. We flew to California, 

where I was reunited with my children, my brother, my mother, 

and several members of my family. 

Two years ago yesterday, I was fleeing Iraq in the back of a bus, 

just starting my long journey to America. My future was unknown. 

But now, thanks to the help of many people and my family, I have 

been blessed with asylum in this country. 

I thank you for your graciousness in allowing me to speak here 

today, and I ask that you continue to be gracious to my former 

countrymen and fellow Chaldeans who have been forced to leave 

their homes. 

Thank you very much. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very much, John. These are enormously moving stories. People use words here and around the 

world, but you have been living this nightmare for yourselves and 

your families, and they are extraordinary stories of courage and 

heroism in your work for Americans and the servicemen. 

Let me just ask, first, Sami, you were obviously targeted. You 

have mentioned other individuals who were translators who were 

targeted. What was the sense among the translators? Did some 

others of them flee? Do you know people that would flee? Why 

would people come back in and work and be translators? 

I think you mentioned to us earlier when I saw you at noontime 

that many translators that are American translators worked for 

the higher echelons, but that at your level, you have worked with, 

as we will hear later, the Marines and others in local communities. 

As your own testimony was, you guided different groups to different roads and different communities, and a more fuller explanation as to the work that you have done at great risk in terms 

of providing information to Americans. 

What is the general sense? Do you feel that you were targeted? 

Did other translators feel they are targeted? Do they flee? Do they 

feel that America is going to be there for them, as you have been 

there for America? What is the mood? 

23

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Thanks for your question, Senator Kennedy. 

When a translator decides to work for the U.S. Army to help support democracy and freedom in Iraq, then the translator puts his 

life on the line. That is a decision someone has got to make when 

they first go and apply for the job. 

Once you make this decision, you are in, you put your life on the 

line. Then you have to agree to accept all the dangers and the risks 

that you take that will come out of it, until some point when translators find themselves in a very critical situation, like 1 day finding 

terrorists are trying to attack their families, that is what matters 

the most. 

Senator KENNEDY. They print your name at the mosque. Is that 

true? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Yes, sir. I saw my name on a list, on several lists 

on the walls of the mosques. They call us traitors, and people wanted by the terrorists, or jihadists, or whoever. They call us traitors, 

and under these names they try to make it more logical to the normal people. 

Then they start assassinating anyone, even those who left the 

job, resigned their positions with the U.S. Army. Still, you have got 

a record with them. So no matter how long it has have been since 

you left working for them, you still have that record. The only 

thing you could do is leave the country with your family. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, let me ask, when you left the country—

now, in order to be eligible for this program you have to get a general or flag officer to state that you have been a translator for over 

a year. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Yes, Senator. 

Senator KENNEDY. I imagine that has its complications as well 

for other translators to be able to get it. So what happened? You 

leave. Did you then hope to get into the United States? Just very 

quickly. Did you hope to get into the United States, and was this 

a problem? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. First of all, when I left the country I was just 

hoping to stay alive. That was my main concern. Then I was able 

to come to the United States. Later on, when I came over to the 

United States, I was able to obtain a letter of recommendation from 

General Hamm, Carter Hamm, who was the commander of the 

forces in Iraq in Mosul. So it is very hard, of course, unless the 

general knows the person individually to write a letter and recommend you for this program. 

Senator KENNEDY. John, let me ask you, now, you did not serve 

as a translator, but you certainly worked and risked your life in 

providing for American troops. You were beaten, you saw your children beaten, and you were obviously threatened. 

Now, as I understand it, it took you three or four different passports to get in here. Just one passport? I thought he went to other 

countries. I thought I was told at lunchtime that he had different 

passports, getting into different countries. 

All that being aside, do you know of other Iraqis that work for 

Americans or Americans that were targeted and whose lives were 

at risk and tried to flee the country or wanted to come to the 

United States and were unable to do so? 

24

JOHN. I do not know about others. I know about myself and my 

story. I know other people have fled Iraq for many different reasons, but I am not sure of their exact reasons. 

Senator KENNEDY. All right. 

Just a final question, and then my time is up. Let me ask you, 

John or Sami, do you know why you were targeted? Why were you 

targeted? How did you get caught up in the civil war, sectarian violence, whatever you want to call it? Why do you think they were 

after you some time ago? When did you first detect that they were 

going after you? A couple of years ago now? Why were they after 

you for working for Americans? Who was it that was after you? 

Were there not any groups around to try and protect you? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Yes, Senator. Like I mentioned, the connection 

between the coalition forces and the Iraqi civilians, the Iraqi community, is the translators who would try to bridge the gap, try to 

communicate between both sides. A lot of people who are anti-democracy, anti-freedom, do not like that. They do not want any connection between both sides, the American side, freedom. 

It promotes the ideals of freedom and democracy and these people who want the tyranny and oppression to stay in the country, 

and the darkness. So these people, they pay money and they hire 

people to kill us, to hunt for translators. They have all the details 

and information about every single one of us. 

So, a lot of people are involved in that, Ba’athists and radical 

Islamics, and some people from neighboring countries who want to 

keep the situation chaotic. That is basically it. 

Senator KENNEDY. All right. 

Senator Specter? 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Sami, and thank you, John, for coming in here today 

to testify and to provide evidence which will inform the American 

people of the need to have a refugee program. We salute you, Sami, 

for what you have done as a translator, and you, John, for helping 

the United States forces there. 

We thank Morgan Lewis for providing pro bono work. It is in the 

great tradition of the American lawyer to help people who are in 

need of help without cost. And we congratulate the Villanova law 

students for assisting John in making his case and helping him 

come forward. It is nice to see so many Pennsylvania connections 

with assisting you men who have done so much and are so brave. 

Sami, the first question is for you. I note in the resume that you 

left Iraq in the fall of 2004 after death threats and fled to Syria. 

Then you returned to Iraq in February of 2005 to complete your 

college studies. Why did you go back to such a dangerous situation? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Senator, when I left the country there was a reason. At that time, my best friend who was a translator was abducted, and my name was next to his so I had to leave the country 

the same day. I stayed at someone’s house and left the next morning. 

Senator SPECTER. So why did you go back? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. I had to go back because I really wanted to finish 

my studies. I had one more semester left for my school to get my 

degree. 

25

Senator SPECTER. Well, there are good schools in Pennsylvania, 

and you wanted to go back to Iraq? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Sure. Sure. I would love to. I would love to go 

back to school here, and eventually I was able to finish my studies. 

Senator SPECTER. Sami, I note that in March of 2006, according 

to the summary, you learned of a training schedule to be held at 

the law firm of Morgan, Lewis & Bockius in Philadelphia and you 

enrolled in the training schedule. What kind of training was it, and 

why did you need some special instruction to enable you to apply 

for refugee status? 

What I am looking for is, how complicated is it for someone in 

your situation to achieve refugee status, and how complicated is 

the State Department making it for you to get this kind of special 

training? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. It is really, really complicated and difficult to obtain such status. 

Senator SPECTER. Morgan Lewis only has 1,000 lawyers. They 

are limited as to how much training they can give. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. I am sorry. I did not hear the question. 

Senator SPECTER. I said, go ahead with what kind of specialized 

training. How complicated was it? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. You are referring to the special immigrant status 

for translators? 

Senator SPECTER. The special training that you got from Morgan, 

Lewis & Bockius. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. The training. I went there to listen to see, what 

is it like, and what is the training about, to know about all the refugees and asylum in this country. So I attended that conference 

and later on I was able to get a pro bono lawyer from Morgan, 

Lewis & Bockius. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, if it is so complicated on the path you 

have taken, the question arises in my mind as to how others are 

going to get sufficient knowledge and information. Everybody cannot be trained by a law firm to know what to do to get this refugee 

status. What is your thinking on that? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. It took me a really long time and there were a 

lot of people involved in that to get the right connection, to get to 

these people to represent me on a pro bono basis. 

Senator SPECTER. Sami, I do not have much time. I want to ask 

you one more question before turning to John. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. All right. 

Senator SPECTER. That is, what is the attitude of the Iraqis as 

a generalization? I know you can only speak for yourself and your 

own experience. But is there a sense of appreciation for what the 

United States has done or do the Iraqis think that the United 

States ought to be doing more now on this refugee issue? 

Although the United States moved in to depose Saddam Hussein, 

a brutal murderer, that our action has set the stage for the need 

for you to become a refugee. How do you feel about the United 

States, and what do you sense your countrymen feel? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. My countrymen? The general sense on appreciation to the United States differs. At the time back then, right after 

the war, a lot of people—I would say over 90 percent of my countrymen—appreciated the Americans and appreciated the democracy 

26

and the freedom that America came with. As the situation differs 

from time to time, they just want to be more stable. That is what 

everyone wants. 

Senator SPECTER. Let me proceed, now, to you, John, to commend you for coming to the United States. And you have six children, so obviously it was not an easy matter to bring your entire 

family. 

I note from the resume that you were detained in Berks County, 

Pennsylvania, where you were granted asylum 2 months ago. 

The two questions I have for you are, how was it with such a 

large family traveling, and what happened to you in Berks County, 

Pennsylvania on your detention that led to your grant of asylum? 

JOHN. Are you referring to the treatment in Pennsylvania? 

Senator KENNEDY. Maybe you could ask him, was he not in detention there for a period of time with his family? Maybe you could 

describe that, if that is part of it. You told me about that at noontime. Why do you not just tell us what you mentioned to me at 

noontime? 

Senator SPECTER. What happened to you when you were in 

Pennsylvania in detention in Berks County near Reading, Pennsylvania? What happened to you there? 

JOHN. My children attended school. We were all taken care of. 

Absolutely, it was difficult because it was detention. We had very 

nice treatment. We did not have any problems. 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you very much. Congratulations, John. 

Congratulations, Sami. 

Senator KENNEDY. Senator Cornyn? 

Senator CORNYN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Sami, I wanted to ask you about not just your situation, but to 

what extent other Iraqis who cooperated with the coalition forces, 

particularly Americans, have a well-founded fear of persecution. 

I would imagine that the story that you and John have told us 

here today about your cooperation with coalition forces could be repeated many times—perhaps thousands, maybe tens of thousands 

of times—across Iraq by people who have cooperated with coalition 

forces in opposition to Saddam. Could you give us an idea about 

how many people, potentially, we would be talking about? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Personally, I have close friends I have lost just 

because they worked as translators and supported the coalition 

forces. I mentioned one of my friends whose name is Samir who 

worked for the Public Affairs Office, Task Force Olympia. 

His office was in charge of the press and newspapers. He used 

to, as many of us, take five cabs a day to get to the base, back and 

forth. He used to do that to hide, for the terrorists not to be able 

to spot him. One time, he was shot on his way to work in the morning, and he was shot to death. He tried to escape. 

He knew that if they kidnapped him, they would try to tape him 

and then sell CDs on the markets. They sell CDs. They entitle 

them, ‘‘Traitors and Agents’’. These CDs are executions of the 

translators. That is how they do it. It is happening every day. 

Senator CORNYN. Well, Sami, in addition to the translators such 

as yourself and your friend, who unfortunately was killed, there 

are many Iraqis who cooperate and provide intelligence tips to 

American and coalition forces, obviously people who volunteered to 

27

serve in the police and who have been trained, and in the Iraq 

army, now over 300,000 people in the Iraqi army alone, and contractors like John who have provided water and other services and 

goods to our troops. 

My point is, there are many, many, many Iraqis who have, in 

one way or another, cooperated with American and coalition forces 

against the terrorists, against those who were trying to tear Iraq 

apart. Would you agree with that? 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. If I did not agree with the idea of supporting democracy and freedom, I would never have worked as a translator 

and supporting the coalition. So, that was the belief that you believe in. Living under Saddam’s tyranny for my entire life, for 25 

years, knowing how it was like to live under a tyrant, a dictator, 

it is just hard. 

When an opportunity for the Iraqi people comes like that to promote democracy and freedom and for a new Iraq, then why, for 

people like myself, do we not just all cooperate to make a better 

Iraq? 

Senator CORNYN. I am sure that you and your family have sacrificed much, and we are glad you are here to share your experience. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. We are honored to do so. 

Senator CORNYN. We would hope that Iraq can be stabilized so 

people, if they choose, can stay in Iraq and have a better life. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. We hope that, too. 

Senator CORNYN. John, I would like to ask you about your experience coming to the United States. In your statement, you said 

you flew on a plane from Greece with the help of smugglers, and 

then traveled through five countries and four continents, and finally took a taxicab from Mexico to the United States border and 

arrived at San Ysidro, California. Is that correct? 

JOHN. Yes, the statement is true. When we entered the United 

States, we handed our passports to the officers and we asked for 

asylum. 

Senator CORNYN. And the passport that you handed to the U.S. 

official, your statement says it was a false passport from Greece. 

You handed that to the officer and you asked for asylum. Is that 

correct? 

JOHN. Yes, it was. 

Senator CORNYN. How did you know who to talk to, which smugglers to contact and how to get to the United States? How did you 

go about figuring that out and making that determination? 

JOHN. In Greece, we met somebody that was a smuggler. He took 

care of all that for us. He took us all the way to Mexico. Then from 

Mexico, he put us in a taxicab and we entered the United States. 

Senator CORNYN. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, my time is up. Thank you. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, we want to thank both of you very 

much. You see behind you our friends from Villanova. We thank 

them as well. The best way we can try and thank you is to let 

those who have devoted themselves to America there have at least 

as much help and support as we possibly can. We thank you very 

much for being here. 

Mr. AL-OBIEDY. Thank you, Senator. It is an honor. 

28

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you. 

JOHN. Thank you, Senators. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very, very much. 

We will proceed with the rest of our panel here. We will start 

with Captain Iscol, if we could. I think for those of us on the committee know, rather than submitting statements that have to go 

through the review process, that he made himself available, for 

which we are very grateful. 

All of us are very appreciative of your service and that of your 

fellow Marines and soldiers, sailors and airmen serving in Iraq, 

and I understand that as part of that service, in Fallujah. In Anbar 

province and elsewhere you gained extensive experience working 

alongside and employing Iraqi translators. 

In your estimation, as you know, there is a program that permits 

30 interpreters a year to resettle whose lives have been threatened 

because of their ties to the United States. Could you tell us, first 

of all, a little bit about how important it was to have Iraqi translators in terms of your effectiveness? Now, you had, as I understand, what, 30 Marines and 200 Iraqi soldiers? 

Captain ISCOL. Yes. 

Senator KENNEDY. Yes. And you might just describe what you 

mentioned to me earlier today about how you worked and trained 

these groups of soldiers and how you operated and how you 

brought in these translators and you all worked with the families, 

worked with the local communities and really became a very solid 

team. All of them became a team, and perhaps the role of the 

translators in terms of helping you and assisting you to bring about 

that function. 

Captain ISCOL. Yes, sir. I have not been able to prepare written 

testimony, I do have oral testimony that I would like to give. 

Senator KENNEDY. All right. That is fine. 

Captain ISCOL. And it will answer your questions. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF CAPTAIN ZACHARY J. ISCOL, FOREIGN MILITARY TRAINING UNIT, MARINE FORCES SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND, CAMP LEJEUNE, NORTH CAROLINA 

Captain ISCOL. First, I would like to express my gratitude to the 

Chairman and to members of the committee for providing me the 

opportunity to testify today. 

During my service in Iraq I incurred an obligation to safeguard 

and protect a number of brave Iraqis. Today you are helping me 

fulfill that obligation, for which I am extremely grateful. 

During the latter half of 2004, I served as the commander of a 

very successful combined action platoon. It was comprised of 30 

U.S. Marines and 250 Iraqi soldiers. I learned that we cannot win 

the war in Iraq alone. Tactically, counterinsurgency, and especially 

the development of credible partner nation forces, is all about personal relationships. 

I am here today to explain that we cannot cultivate these relationships without the service of Iraqi translators who join our 

ranks at great risk to themselves and to their families. 

29

I am incredibly proud of the job my Marines did in Iraq. Though 

trained to close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, 

they adapted to fight a complex counterinsurgency. 

With our translators as teachers, they studied the language and 

the culture and lived up to our First Marine Division’s maxim of 

‘‘No better friend and no worse enemy than a United States Marine.’’

Across vast cultural divides, they were able to influence our Iraqi 

soldiers’ abilities and willingness to fight. Through their efforts, 

some of our Iraq soldiers fought on the front lines of the battle of 

Fallujah, while others conducted independent security operations 

throughout al-Anbar province. 

Our successes were based on a comprehensive community approach. We did not just work with the Iraq soldiers. We worked 

with their tribal leaders, with their families, and even with their 

religious leaders. 

As our eyes, ears and voice on the ground, our translators were 

critical to this approach. They bridged vast ethnic and language divides, while providing the guidance we needed to be able to operate 

across complex cultural terrain. 

The first time I worked with my translator, Musa—I have 

changed his name for his protection—was during a meeting with 

some local sheiks. At the time, I had very little experience working 

with interpreters, maybe a one-hour or two-hour course at Camp 

Pendleton. 

The sheiks were from a generation unspoiled by Saddam’s regime. In many ways, they were older, educated, dignified, and 

cared deeply for their constituents. 

In many ways they were like the Senators on this panel and, like 

today, I was pretty nervous speaking to them. I could not figure out 

how to eat without using my left hand, and I kept apologizing for 

crossing my legs and inadvertently showing them the bottom of my 

feet. 

Musa, my translator, was monopolizing the conversation, and I 

did not speak any Arabic, so I was sort of left in the dark and could 

not understand what was being said. I reminded him of his job and 

that he should only translate my words. What ensued was the next 

5 minutes of very awkward silence. 

I asked Musa why the sheiks were not saying anything. ‘‘Well, 

they are waiting for their host—that is you, sir—to make proper 

introductions and give the blessing’’, to which I whispered to Musa, 

‘‘But Musa, I do not know the blessings or how to give proper introductions.’’ Without our translators, we are deaf and dumb. Without 

them we cannot speak, we cannot listen, we cannot understand. 

In my own experience, I believe their service has even saved 

lives. Though my platoon was hit by IEDs and attacked outside the 

town we lived in, we were never attacked in the town we called 

‘‘home.’’

A number of times we even drove or stood on top of IEDs that 

were detonated minutes after our departure against other U.S. 

military units. I am convinced that we were never attacked because 

of the relationships we had established with local leaders and their 

constituents, and that these relationships cannot have been established without our interpreters. 

30

Musa’s service to our Nation came at a high cost to him and to 

his family. He first started working with the U.S. military, along 

with two of his daughters, in 2003. When the U.S. embassy was 

opened, Musa sent his daughter to work for them while Musa continued to work alongside front-line combat units. 

Soon, however, men dressed in black came to his home to warn 

him that they knew his daughter was working for the U.S. military. They firmly recommended that she stop, and remarked that 

her name had been posted at the local mosque. In the middle of 

the night, Musa and his family packed their belongings and moved 

out of their home to Baghdad. 

During our time working together in Iraq, I witnessed Musa’s extraordinary service and sacrifice. Because of their importance, interpreters have become lucrative targets for the enemy. There was 

a price placed on his head. He was even threatened by some of the 

Iraqi military leaders for not helping them extort local contractors. 

He was by my side for over a week of high-intensity combat operations in the city of Fallujah, often placing himself in great danger 

to yell into houses to evacuate innocent civilians caught in the 

crossfire. He comforted other civilians we came across, and often 

interrogated insurgents that we had captured. 

I would like to close by saying that as our connection to the 

hearts and minds of our Iraqi soldiers and of local leaders and 

their constituents, Musa placed himself and his family at great 

risk. In Iraq, Musa entered the ranks of the proud few who have 

worn our Nation’s uniform in combat. He wore the Marine Corps 

uniform in combat. Despite this service, Musa and his family have 

now become refugees. 

Senator KENNEDY. Just on that point, then we will move on with 

the panel, they have become refugees. As I understand it, you have 

been in touch with them, have you not? 

Captain ISCOL. Yes, sir. That is correct. 

Senator KENNEDY. And you have been working continuously to 

try and expedite their asylum here in the United States. Is that 

correct? 

Captain ISCOL. That is correct, sir. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, it certainly seems to be a very powerful 

and convincing case that you make. 

Let me just ask you this. There were instances where you had 

some translators that did not make the grade. Is that correct? 

Captain ISCOL. That is absolutely correct. 

Senator KENNEDY. I think, so we have the record complete, you 

might mention a couple of the incidents that you had. 

Captain ISCOL. Yes, sir. I had approximately five translators 

working with me during my time in Iraq. Two of them, we actually 

had to eventually detain. One was exploiting his position to extort 

local contractors. Basically, while we were in the process of negotiations, he would request 10 percent or however much of a cut to 

make their case to me. Another one, we received information that 

he was working with insurgents. 

Senator KENNEDY. All right. 

But certainly Musa and the others that you had, you felt had 

been loyal to you and the Marines, and to your mission? 

31

Captain ISCOL. Yes, sir. I mean, Musa’s service and the other 

ones were absolutely honorable. One was wounded in combat. 

Musa never failed to be by my side, even in some pretty precarious 

positions. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you very much. 

Ms. Ramaci-Vincent, we are so appreciative of your being here. 

You have a heart-rending story and we admire your extraordinary 

courage for keeping after, I am sure, your husband’s memory and 

carrying forward, certainly, his courageous life. We are very grateful to you. 

STATEMENT OF LISA RAMACI-VINCENT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STEVEN VINCENT FOUNDATION, NEW YORK, NEW YORK 

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. Thank you, Ranking Member Specter, Senator Kennedy. Thank you for the honor of being able to come before 

you today. I am the widow of Steven Vincent, the journalist who 

was kidnapped and murdered in Basra, Iraq in 2005. For the last 

13 months, I have been trying to get his translator, Nour, into the 

United States. 

Two days prior to his death, Steven broke the now-familiar story 

in the Washington Times of how the Iraqi police force was being 

systematically infiltrated by Iranian-backed fundamentalists and 

Shi’ite militia men loyal to Muktada Al-Sadr rather than to the 

central government. 

He wrote of the death squads in police vehicles who roamed the 

streets, snatching their victims and murdering them with impunity. Then one came for him. When it did so, Nour bravely stood 

by him as five men in police uniforms wrestled him into the truck 

that was going to take him to his death. They had no interest 

whatsoever in her. 

They repeatedly pushed her away, told her to leave, but she refused to abandon Steven. She kept inserting herself into the struggle until they took her as well. For all she knew, she was going to 

be killed, yet she did not hesitate for a moment, this tiny, 5-foottall woman, to try and protect the man who had hired her to be 

his guide and who had become her friend. 

They were bound, gagged, beaten, held for hours, driven to the 

edge of town, set free, told to run, and shot from behind and close 

range. Steven, in a final act of God’s mercy, died instantly. Nour 

was hit three times, but survived, winding up in the green zone for 

medical treatment, where she was held incommunicado by the 

Americans for 3 months. 

During that time she was repeatedly interrogated, treated as if 

she were a co-conspirator of the killers, mentally and emotionally 

bullied, threatened, told she would never receive a visa to come to 

this country. 

And when we decided she had nothing left to offer and was medically fit enough, we gave her $2,000 and threw her out into Baghdad’s red zone alone, where she knew no one, had no family, no job, 

no resources, nowhere to turn. 

Luckily, she was able to contact me and I was able to get her 

out of Iraq into temporary safety. I will never be able to fully repay 

Nour the debt that I owe to her. Not only did she help Steven in 

the months they worked together by lining up interviews, arrangVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
32

ing for him to meet a broad cross-section of Basra’s secular and religious societies, translating when necessary, going into places and 

situations that terrified her, but doing so anyway because this is 

what her friend wanted, working with him 7 days a week to get 

the stories he was trying to uncover, but she literally took a bullet 

for him—three as a matter of fact—and in the final dreadful hours 

of his life, when Steven would have known beyond mere knowing 

that he was going to die violently, he also knew he was not alone 

with his executioners. A friend was there with him, someone who 

cared for him and was voluntarily sharing his terror and his pain. 

As I mentioned earlier, I have spent the last year trying to get 

her into America. I have dealt with officials at the Baghdad embassy and the State Department. I have filled out forms, made 

countless calls, sent innumerable e-mails. 

I have pledged to stand financial security for her. I have gotten 

a promise from the U.N. Bureau Chief at al Arabiyah that he will 

hire her when, and if, she ever gets here. Each path I have gone 

down has proven fruitless. I have been told that she does not qualify for refugee or asylum status because Iraq is now a democracy, 

so there is no reason she should need to flee. 

I spent months working with embassy people who told me they 

were extremely touched by her plight and would move heaven and 

earth to see she got special treatment, and who wound up, in the 

end, telling me that she needed to go to Amman to apply for a visa 

just like every other Iraqi. 

I was told our government was no longer accepting Iraq’s S passports because supposedly there are so many forgeries, it is impossible to know who is really holding them, so we will not take any 

of them. 

The embassy in Amman is no longer accepting applications from 

Iraqis. The Jordanian government is beginning to crack down and 

deport them. Egypt is now demanding that, before they come in, 

they get a letter of invitation from a certain government official in 

a certain department. The noose is tightening, and in the middle, 

Nour, pro-democracy, pro-America, sits waiting. 

So I end with a request that you attempt to change this most 

misguided of policies. Please help those who helped us, who still 

see this country as the shining city on the hill, who yearn to come 

here and raise their families in an atmosphere of freedom, peace 

and safety. 

And please, let me help the woman who helped Steven, and in 

so doing, greatly aided me by being with him in his final moments. 

Thank you. 

Senator KENNEDY. Very powerful. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Ramaci-Vincent appears as a 

submission for the record.] 

Senator KENNEDY. Ken Bacon? 

STATEMENT OF KEN BACON, PRESIDENT, REFUGEES 

INTERNATIONAL, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. BACON. Thank you very much. Thank you and Senator Specter for holding these hearings. You have heard these personal stories, enormously compelling and enormously gripping. There are 

hundreds of stories like this, obviously, but I want to focus on the 

33

broader issue, again, because these stories add up to a growing crisis. 

Right now, because of violence in Iraq, large numbers of refugees 

are running for their lives. The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees estimates that there are 1.7

million internally displaced, and about 2 million who have become refugees in other countries. 

But this flow is building rapidly. One thousand three hundred 

people a day in Iraq are leaving their homes to flee for safety elsewhere in Iraq, and 100,000 people a month are leaving Iraq to go 

to other countries, mainly now to Syria and to Jordan. 

So the figures are not static. There is a rising tide of people trying to get out of Iraq. Syria and Jordan are absorbing the most 

Iraqi refugees. Each country is hosting about 750,000, maybe as 

many as a million in Syria. 

Other Iraqis are finding refuge throughout the Middle East. Lisa 

mentioned trying to get into Egypt and the difficulties of getting 

into Egypt, but Iraqis are trying to get into Lebanon, Yemen, and 

Turkey as well. 

Syria and Jordan have been very gracious hosts, but the refugee 

influx is straining their economies. The host countries need help 

and, increasingly, refugees themselves need direct assistance. 

The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees reports that some 

Iraqi women are resorting to prostitution to support their families, 

and child labor is becoming an increasing problem among the refugees because they are so desperate to find income. 

Today, the Iraqi refugees are primarily a regional challenge, but 

that will not last long either. As the numbers grow, Iraqis are trying to leave the Middle East and move to Europe or to the United 

States. In fact, today’s New York Times highlights the growing 

number of Iraqis moving to Sweden. 

Most Iraqis do not expect to return home, unlike many refugees. 

Even a senior Iraqi foreign service officer working at the Iraqi embassy in Lebanon told my colleagues at Refugees International, 

‘‘Why should I go back? I watch the news.’’

The violence in Iraq is both extreme and indiscriminate. Many 

are fleeing to escape sectarian violence that is producing de facto 

ethnic cleansing. Both Sunni and Shi’a are leaving mixed neighborhoods because they no longer feel safe outside of their own religious 

communities. 

Christians are leaving as well, and the Chaldean community, one 

of the oldest Christian sects, is rapidly diminishing. John spoke 

about that compellingly in his testimony. 

Two groups are particularly vulnerable. You have heard extensively about one, people who have worked for the United States or 

for other western employers. The second group that is vulnerable 

is Palestinians. 

Palestinians received special treatment from Saddam Hussein 

and, therefore, they are regarded with anger, suspicion, or hostility 

by many in Iraq. There are about 15,000 Palestinians still in Iraq 

and they are one of the most vulnerable groups. 

We just issued a report, Refugees International, recommending 

that members of these most vulnerable groups, those who assisted 

the United States and Palestinians, receive priority consideration 

34

for resettlement in third countries. I ask that a copy of that report 

be included in the record. 

Senator KENNEDY. It will be so included. 

Mr. BACON. Thank you. 

Most of the Iraqis who have left the country are middle class. 

They had to have means to reach the border and get out. Neither 

Syria nor Jordan, which house the largest refugee populations, has 

signed the 1951 Refugee Convention, so people find it difficult to 

get refugee status there. 

They generally enter the host country as tourists, business people, or guests, arriving in Syria with three-month visas, and in Jordan with authority to stay for 6 months. 

Many arrive in a state of shock. One Iraqi told my colleagues 

that ‘‘my son is more shocked by the sight of dead dogs than of 

dead people.’’ Syria and Jordan have been very generous to refugees and deserve international recognition for accepting them in 

large numbers, but the burdens of the large refugee population are 

increasingly straining housing, schools, hospitals, and social services. 

Jordan has tightened its borders since the bombings in Amman 

in November of 2005, and it is particularly difficult for Iraqi men 

between the ages of 18 and 35 to enter. Deportations are becoming 

more common. Syria, which used to grant free health care to refugees, has started to charge. In both countries, refugees find it very 

difficult to get jobs. 

As the refugees exhaust their resources, many need food, shelter, 

and other assistance, but the largely urban refugee populations are 

difficult to reach, particularly since many refugees are reluctant to 

register with the U.N. High Commissioner or local authorities as 

refugees for fear of deportation. 

There are encouraging signs that the world is beginning to respond to the growing Iraqi refugee problem, and this hearing is one 

of those signs. Until now, however, the reaction has been slow and 

inadequate. Last year, for instance, the U.N. High Commissioner 

for Refugees’ budget for Iraqi refugees in Syria was $700,000—less 

than $1 per refugee. The U.S. has a special obligation to help since 

the violence in Iraq and the growing displacement comes in the 

aftermath of our invasion and occupation. Translators and others 

who had to flee for their lives after working for the U.S. deserve 

an opportunity to be resettled in the U.S. or other countries so they 

can live in safety. The State Department, along with the UNHCR, 

is working on programs to protect the most vulnerable, but these 

programs need fast and adequate funding so they can be put into 

place immediately. 

UNHCR has plans to spend $60 million on displaced Iraqis this 

year, about three times what it spent last year, and it has developed a comprehensive regional program. However, U.N. agencies 

have not mobilized to provide food, shelter, medical care, and educational support for an increasingly stressed refugee community 

that is taxing the resources of host countries. The U.S. Government 

should fully support the UNHCR budget. Normally, we contribute 

25 percent to their budget. Because of our role in the conflict, I 

think we should consider doubling that contribution for Iraqi refugees because fast action is what is going to save more lives. 

35

The host countries, particularly Jordan and Syria, need multilateral and bilateral assistance in shouldering the burden of the refugee population. This means programs to resettle the most vulnerable refugees to third countries and help in sharing the costs of 

those who stay. The worst outcome, the very worst outcome now, 

would be to see Syria and Jordan close their borders to Iraqis, removing a safety valve that is currently saving hundreds of thousands of lives. ‘‘Iraqis who are unable to flee the country are now 

in a queue waiting their turn to die,’’ one Iraqi told my colleagues. 

The U.S. and Iraq are finding it difficult to stop the violence in 

Iraq. Until they do, the flood of refugees will continue. While we 

do not know how to stabilize Iraq now, we do know how to protect 

and support refugees. That is our obligation, and we should start 

now. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Bacon appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator KENNEDY. I would recognize Senator Specter to ask 

questions at this time. 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for taking me out 

of order. When we start a hearing at 2, we expect it ordinarily to 

be over by 4. We have many meetings, and I have got a bunch of 

people stacked up in the reception area. So I appreciate Senator 

Kennedy allowing me to go first, and I will excuse myself for a few 

moments and then come back for the remaining witnesses. 

Thank you very much, Ms. Ramaci-Vincent, for sharing with us 

what happened to your husband and to Nour al-Khal. And thank 

you very much, Captain Iscol, for the specifics on what happened 

with your translator, Musa. They are extraordinary stories about 

what has happened in circumstances which are hard to understand 

how, with the kind of firsthand evidence that you brought, Ms. 

Ramaci-Vincent—

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. Please call me ‘‘Lisa.’’

Senator SPECTER. Lisa. That is easier, with your permission. 

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. Please do. 

Senator SPECTER.—that you could not get some immediate relief. 

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. No. 

Senator SPECTER. When you testified they told you that Iraq was 

now a democracy so there was no need for refugee status, you obviously told them that Iraq was not much of a democracy. 

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. When I stopped laughing, yes, I did. 

Senator SPECTER. If you were to judge the need for refugee status by the status of Iraq as a democracy, it would be at about 100 

percent. 

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. To be honest, the impression that I got 

from the person who told this to me was that certain elements in 

the Government are not willing to acknowledge the fact that Iraq 

is a titular democracy but not necessarily a working one, and that 

by allowing more refugees into the country, it would be some kind 

of admission of failure on the part of the American Government to 

have a fully functioning democracy to protect the citizens of Iraq. 

Senator SPECTER. Are you saying that is the attitude of the 

American Government not to want to recognize that Iraq is not a 

democracy and there is a need for refugee status? 

36

Ms. RAMACI-VINCENT. No. Elements in the Government, not the 

American Government as a whole. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, any elements are elements too many. 

Captain, how do you account for your inability, your status as a 

Marine officer, and the firsthand testimony you give on the scene 

that it is not sufficiently persuasive to get refugee status? The 

thought crossed my mind that if people like Lisa and you, Captain, 

cannot get the job done, it is a sad day for everybody. 

Captain ISCOL. Yes, sir. We have had a number of successes lately, within the past week—

Senator SPECTER. How about with—

[Laughter.] 

Senator SPECTER. You still think there is nothing like a Senate 

hearing. 

Captain ISCOL. Yes, sir. However, at the same time, it is a very 

complicated process. And as a Marine officer, I am not well versed 

in the ways that our National Government screens immigrants and 

tries to bring immigrants over here. So it has been a very difficult 

process for me personally. But we have been able to grant him refugee status, and the next step is his case should be referred to the 

United States State Department. 

Senator SPECTER. Mr. Bacon, we thank you for the service that 

you have rendered in Government in the past and now in your capacity as head of a refugee organization. 

I note in an article you wrote for the Washington Post, ‘‘Syria is 

the last country in the Middle East to leave its borders open to 

Iraqi refugees.’’ As I said a little earlier in this hearing, I had a 

chance to talk to Syrian President Bashir Assad who told me about 

1 million refugees coming into Syria, and they received them but 

they are obviously an enormous problem for Syria. 

Is there any conceivable justification for the United States not 

having a dialog with Syria at least on the question of how to deal 

with these Iraqi refugees? 

Mr. BACON. I believe there is no excuse for not talking to Syria 

about this, and I was glad to hear of your meetings with President 

Bashir Assad because I do think that actually, with all the problems that we have with Syria, talking to them on a humanitarian 

issue such as refugees is almost a safe haven to begin discussions. 

You are in a much better position than I am to maybe suggest 

to the U.S. Government that they consider doing that, and I hope 

you have taken that message to Secretary Rice. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, I have and I will, and I shall persist in 

it. I have been an advocate of talking to our adversaries forever. 

You keep your friends close, as the old saying goes, and your enemies closer. But not to talk to our adversaries—we talked to the 

Soviet Union when they were the evil empire. We talked to China, 

utilizing slave labor. We have to pursue it, and I think this refugee 

issue is a good opening. 

One statement I want to pursue with you and question you on 

is when you said that the United States has a ‘‘special obligation’’ 

since it was our military action which has caused the problem. 

Are we under an obligation? Did we, arguably, do the wrong 

thing to give us some special obligation? Or did we act on the best 

intelligence we had and now find a terrible situation and ought to 

37

do our best to accommodate the refugees, work with other countries 

in it, but not to categorize it as a ‘‘special obligation’’ as if we were 

at fault here or the causative factor? 

Mr. BACON. Well, I did not mean to suggest fault, although I certainly have views about what we did. But I am referring specifically to the type of cases that Captain Iscol and Lisa focused on 

and that John and Sami focused on earlier. There is a large group 

of Iraqis who have risked their lives to support the United States. 

They have done this sometimes out of a commitment to what we 

have done—to helping us bring democracy to Iraq. I am sure some 

have done it to earn an income in a country with very high unemployment. 

But the fact of the matter is that the people are sacrificing their 

lives to help the United States, and if the U.S. turns its back on 

those people, I think that we are breaking an obligation we have 

to them—not a written obligation perhaps, not a contractual obligation, but a moral obligation. 

The translator that Captain Iscol talked about has been granted 

refugee status now by the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. 

Next, that that translator has to go through a series of steps to see 

if he can be resettled into the United States where he already has 

a daughter living. 

But there are much simpler ways to do this, and Senator Kennedy earlier mentioned a parole program. We could facilitate the 

refugee status determination for groups of people who are at risk 

and had to leave the country because of their association with the 

United States. And those people I think do deserve a greater measure of protection than they are getting from us now. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, one way to do it would be to have a million hearings, and that would bring a million people out, and a million seven hundred thousand hearings would bring a million seven 

hundred thousand people out. But one at a time is obviously not 

the answer. 

I am going to step out for a few moments, but I will be in the 

anteroom and will be back for the next panel. Thank you all very 

much. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you. Thanks very much, and thank 

you, Ken Bacon, for sort of summing up really what the overall and 

central challenge is. 

I will ask a couple quick questions. One is about sort of a regional kind of approach in terms of dealing with this humanitarian 

challenge. It seems to me that we are going to hear a little bit more 

from the High Commissioner. 

I have listened to you speak about this in a very powerful way, 

and I want to recognize at this time Kristele Younes and Sean Garcia. Do you want to just raise your hands? They are from Refugees 

International, and if our friends in the press or others that are listening to this want to hear as well what is going on over there, 

they ought to be in touch with these two extraordinary individuals 

who have spent a great deal of time in the region and the area 

interviewing people. They have been enormously helpful to our 

Committee, and we thank them. 

Mr. Bacon, you have summarized very, very well—and I do not 

think you can improve on it—sort of the moral responsibility or obVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00041 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
38

ligation we have to individuals that have identified themselves 

with the United States and have put at serious risk their lives 

themselves, and their children. We have a responsibility to them. 

Maybe you could just talk about this group of people in the region and in the area. What happens to all of these individuals? Basically, probably fairly well skilled individuals have enough resources maybe to escape the country, can stay in these nations, run 

out of resources, and are getting desperate, threatened with deportation from those countries. 

If we are talking about stability in that region, as we know, there 

are a lot of complexities and different pressures. What is this whole 

group that is loose in that whole region, what will that mean in 

terms of overall stability and security? The most powerful statement is the one you made earlier in terms of the humanitarian obligation. 

But if we are looking at a broader kind of context, what does it 

mean, as someone who knows this region, knows the area, knows 

the flow of people, knows the pressures and the diversity in that 

region? 

Mr. BACON. Well, I think there are only three solutions for most 

refugee problems. The first is that people can go home. Right now, 

that does not seem to be possible. The second is that they integrate 

into the country of first asylum, and that would be Syria or Jordan 

in this case. That is basically what has happened. 

And the third solution is resettlement to a third country, such as 

the United States or Sweden or Australia. That is a very durable 

solution, but it can only work for small numbers of people, and I 

think Senator Specter was alluding to that, that we cannot resettle 

right now millions of Iraqis into the United States or other countries. 

So that really means we have to focus on ways to accommodate 

them in the countries nearby—Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, et 

cetera. And that is why I think we have to look at ways—a regional 

conference would be a good way to do this—to get them more resources and more help, more help to the countries that are hosting 

them so they are not such a burden. Otherwise, they will be rejected, and there will be no safety valve whatsoever. 

So the most reasonable solution right now is to pump resources 

into the countries that are taking care of the refugees so they can 

stay there until there is enough stability in Iraq for them to go 

home or until they can negotiate ways to get out to third countries 

for resettlement. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, thank you very much. Captain Iscol, 

where are you assigned now? And how long were you in Iraq? 

Captain ISCOL. The last time I returned from Iraq was January 

of 2005, and during that deployment I was there for 8 months. 

Senator KENNEDY. Are you scheduled to return there anytime 

soon? 

Captain ISCOL. No, sir. I will be deploying elsewhere. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, we thank you very much. 

I will recognize Senator Cardin. 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 

thank you all for your testimony. 

39

We have multiple problems here with the refugees. I agree that 

the refugees that are currently in neighboring countries, we have 

an opportunity to help with our refugee programs to assist those 

countries to make it easier for those individuals to remain in those 

countries because there is really no other option at this particular 

moment. 

So it seems to me that an international conference or the United 

States being more aggressive to help these countries with the refugees is going to be the best short-term solution to this problem. 

In regards to those who are not really displaced in Iraq but are 

in fear because of their cooperation with the United States, I think 

the suggestion that has been made about having our immigration 

officials interact makes a great deal of sense, because the major 

reason that will be used to delay or prevent an individual, an Iraqi 

who has helped us, in fear of his life, for his family and himself, 

in coming to the United States would be the security checks and 

how long that takes. 

It seems to me what has happened with those that have been 

successful in coming to the United States is that they have escaped 

Iraq and had the resources somehow to get into our system and get 

through our system and be placed in the United States. 

But if there were services in Iraq, it seems to me it makes it a 

little bit easier and the security issues would be a lot faster than 

if we go through the procedures that have been used to date. 

But I want to concentrate on the third group—that is, those that 

are in Iraq and are displaced—as to what suggestions you might 

have for U.S. policy to deal with the large numbers that are currently displaced within Iraq itself. 

Mr. BACON. Thank you for that question. They basically have 

three problems: first, is lack of shelter; the second is lack of jobs; 

and the third is insecurity. They are leaving where they are for 

more secure environments. 

Many are going north into the Kurdish areas, which are more secure, and those would be places where it is easier to provide humanitarian services because they are secure. 

And I think the UNHCR representative will probably talk about 

this, but it has been very difficult for international agencies to get 

services to many of the people who are displaced internally because 

it is insecure. 

So there is an agency called the International Organization of 

Migration that has been trying to work with a number of the internally displaced, and their biggest problem is that they do not have 

good working NGO’s frequently in the country because it is so insecure. So that has been a problem. 

Assistant Secretary Sauerbrey addressed this. This is something 

that does concern the U.S. But until the security improves, I think 

it is going to be difficult to meet the needs of many of these people. 

Senator CARDIN. Is it likely that a large number will return to 

their homes? 

Mr. BACON. I think most would like to return to their homes 

when they can, but to the extent that this is de facto ethnic cleansing—the mixed Shi’a-Sunni neighborhoods, for instance, are unraveling and becoming all Sunni or all Shi’a—it may take some time 

for them to be able to get back. 

40

Senator CARDIN. And what role do you see the United States constructively playing here? 

Mr. BACON. Well, the major role is to help the Iraqis bring security to their country, and as I understand it, that is what our policy 

is now. 

Second, I think we have to do more to improve services and aid—

whether it is infrastructure, education, health care—for the Iraqis 

in the country, and I understand we are trying to do that. 

And the third is the type of solution that Senator Kennedy has 

mentioned, which is giving people a way to—those who want to 

leave or have to leave the country and become official refugees and 

resettle, make it easier for them to do this within Iraq. And that 

would involve getting the Department of Homeland Security there 

so they can do security interviews, et cetera, with these people. 

But this is only a small solution. Resettlement is not the major 

solution. The major solution is calming things down so people can 

go home. 

Senator CARDIN. But it seems like some of our policies are moving in the opposite direction. De facto ethnic cleansing is horrible. 

But to reintroduce people back together under the current climate 

is not an option. 

And I am not aware of our policies trying to reconnect communities with diversity back together. It seems like we might be moving in the other direction, trying to bring calm by separation rather 

than bringing communities back. 

Mr. BACON. I guess calm by separation would be better than 

chaos, but it is not as good as reuniting communities. 

Senator CARDIN. I agree with you completely. I understand your 

first point about trying to bring calm and peace to Iraq. We all support that. I just do not know what impact it has on the refugees—

the displaced people within Iraq. 

Mr. BACON. Well, the displaced people will not return to their 

original homes as long as they feel threatened, just as refugees will 

not return from Jordan or Syria as long as they feel it is unsafe 

to live in Iraq. So the key to helping people get back is to find some 

way to make the area more secure. 

This is clearly not easy to do. Everybody wishes that the country 

were safe and secure. But it is not, and it does not appear to be 

heading in that direction anytime soon. 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you all very much. We appreciate it. 

We will work on the overall issue, but in particular, the situations 

that you brought to our attention and hopefully get some positive 

results. Thank you very, very much. 

Senator KENNEDY. We have a final witness, and I will ask Michel 

Gabaudan, who served as the U.N. High Commissioner Regional 

Representative for the United States and Caribbean since September 2006. 

His distinguished career with the agency spans more than 25 

years, with service in Africa, Asia, Latin America, and Australia. 

He was trained as a medical doctor, spent a decade working in 

Guyana, Zambia, Brazil, London, and Yemen, before joining the 

United Nations High Commissioner in Thailand. His U.N. career 

took him to Pakistan, Cameroon, and Geneva. He has been the ReVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
41

gional Representative in Mexico, Australia, and Beijing. We are 

very, very grateful to him for being here. 

We would ask you to proceed. I know you have been here for a 

good part of these hearings, so I think you have got a pretty good 

sense of what we are looking at in terms of the policy issues and 

questions. I have had a good chance to go through your excellent 

testimony here, and if you want to summarize it and highlight it, 

give us your best judgment, we would be very, very grateful. 

STATEMENT OF MICHEL GABAUDAN, REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE UNITED STATES AND CARIBBEAN, OFFICE OF 

THE UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES, GENEVA, SWITZERLAND 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I would like to express UNHCR’s appreciation for the opportunity to share with you 

our concerns about Iraqi displacement, one of the most serious humanitarian crises UNHCR faces today. Over 3.5 million Iraqis—

that is, one out of every eight persons—are either internally displaced or have fled the country. 

Given the escalating violence in Iraq and the growing number of 

displaced, UNHCR has conducted a fundamental review of its Iraq 

program. Whereas, before, we had focused on refugee returns and 

only modest assistance in neighboring host countries, we are now 

increasing our presence in and support for host countries to promote great protection and assistance. 

The protection situation in the region is quite complex. Host 

countries have been generous in receiving arriving Iraqis, effectively tolerating their presence through limited periods of stay, although this is done without a legal framework. We are, however, 

increasingly concerned about reports of deportations and denial of 

access at the borders, which reflects the strain that large refugee 

populations have placed on host societies. 

Living conditions for refugees who remain in host countries are 

also deteriorating. Families have either depleted the resources that 

they brought with them or lacked resources to begin with. 

In this context, some women may be vulnerable to forced prostitution and young people to child labor. Some 30 percent of Iraqi 

children are not attending school, and access to health care is seriously limited. 

UNHCR is encouraging host countries to strengthen protection 

by ensuring that borders are kept open and forced returns are halted. We will also conduct a comprehensive needs assessment with 

our implementing partners and plan to enhance our capacity to 

register Iraqis so that the most vulnerable can be identified and 

their protection and assistance needs addressed. 

Such assistance must support the national infrastructure for providing services and be coordinated through community networks as 

the population in question is largely urban based. 

Resettlement will play a critical role as a protection tool for certain vulnerable individuals or groups. It can also serve as an element of burden sharing by the international community. 

A clear set of criteria and procedures for Iraqi resettlement are 

being defined that will identify certain categories of vulnerability, 

42

such as survivors of violence and torture, women at risk, unaccompanied children and individuals with serious medical problems. 

Other categories will respond to specific protection concerns, such 

as individuals and members of minority groups who have been targeted in Iraq due to their religious or ethnic background or because 

of their association with foreign or international entities. 

UNHCR has initially projected a minimum of just over 13,000 individuals in need of resettlement. However, it can be expected that 

these numbers will increase, and therefore we already plan to enhance our capacity to eventually be able to refer up to 20,000 individuals in 2007. 

We welcome indeed the potential for increases U.S. resettlement 

of Iraqi refugees. For an effective program, it will be essential that 

all parties have a shared understanding of the criteria to be applied and that refugees approved for resettlement depart in a timely manner. 

We would note that from 2003 through 2006, UNHCR was compelled to direct most Iraqi referrals to other resettlement countries 

because many departures were long delayed and in some cases approved cases were actually never able to depart to the United 

States. 

As we work with U.S. authorities to increase Iraqi resettlement, 

we trust that in the future these obstacles can be avoided and that 

the U.S. material support and related bars will not pose new barriers to the resettlement of Iraqi refugees. 

I would like to turn very briefly to the situation of Iraqi internally displaced persons and non-Iraqi refugees inside Iraq. Despite 

the fact that our ability to deliver necessary services is severely 

hampered by security considerations and a resulting lack of adequate staffing, we will seek to mitigate the increasingly harsh conditions faced by Iraqi IDPs through delivery of shelter, water and 

sanitation, nutrition, basic non-food items, and support to host 

communities. 

We are also extremely concerned about the approximately 45,000 

non-Iraqi refugees inside Iraq, many of whom are in urgent need 

of resettlement or humanitarian evacuation. 

Finally, Mr. Chairman, UNHCR is working to promote the convening of an international conference on Iraqi displacement, hopefully in the first half of 2007. This conference would highlight the 

needs of displaced Iraqis and facilitate dialog between countries affected by the displacement and those willing to share the burden. 

The enhanced protection and assistance efforts which I just outlined are virtually all contingent on resources. UNHCR has released a 2007 emergency appeal through which we are seeking a 

total of $60 million to cover our Iraq operation. We look forward 

to continued generosity from the United States at this very critical 

juncture. 

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you and members of the Subcommittee for your leadership in highlighting the 

critical protection needs of Iraqi refugees. We look forward to working with you in the days to come, and I would be happy to address 

any questions you might have. 

Thank you. 

43

[The prepared statement of Mr. Gabaudan appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, thank you very much, and we will put 

your full statement in the record. I went through it in some detail. 

It is very, very comprehensive and helpful and very constructive. 

The High Commissioner has put out the request for funding the 

refugees. Have you gotten a response from our Government that 

you can talk about? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Not yet, Senator. We have just issued the appeal. 

The appeal represents a doubling of what we had asked last year, 

but four times what we received. So it is already quite a quantum 

leap, and this is a first step. 

We will carry out a detailed needs assessment, which is something we have not done yet because of lack of sufficient staff in the 

field, and we have to see what comes out of this detailed assessment, which we will carry out with our implementing partners. 

Senator KENNEDY. On these issues about the U.N. High Commissioner referring resettlement cases to the United States, I think 

there is a faster way, a more efficient way of doing it, and we 

brought that up with the Secretary. But do you see difficulties with 

this processing now by the High Commissioner, these cases? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Senator, we cannot carry out refugee status determination for the large numbers of people who are in Syria and 

Jordan, so we hope that by improving our registration and placing 

some of our registration centers more in the communities where 

people are, we can identify the vulnerabilities I have mentioned, 

and through this identification embark on a fast processing of people who would require resettlement. 

We have been asked by the administration to refer more cases 

than in the past, so there is definitely pressure on us from the administration to refer more cases. 

We are now negotiating how we are going to articulate our two 

programs. Our Director of Resettlement has been here. He is now 

in the Middle East. He is coming here next week, so we are in intense dialog with the government to see how we are going to operate. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, it seems you have got certainly a head 

start, and your help and assistance in this is valuable. But I think 

it is not absolutely essential and necessary in terms of developing 

this program. And I think hopefully the administration hears this. 

Are you monitoring now the borders for the possible rejection of 

Iraqi asylum seekers and the deportation of Iraqis from the countries in the region? We know that a number of the countries have 

closed their borders. We have heard this threat. Is this happening? 

Do you know? What can you tell us? Are you monitoring this at all? 

Can you monitor it? Have you monitored it? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Senator, the shortfall we had in our funding last 

year limited our presence in the field, and we had no permanent 

presence on the border. And some of the issues with deportation 

have been brought to us by NGO’s, and we have taken that very 

seriously. 

So part of our plan for expansion next year includes more field 

officers so we can monitor the border. The High Commissioner will 

be in Jordan and Syria at the end of the month and early FebVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00047 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
44

ruary, and that is certainly one of the issues he is going to raise 

with the governments there. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, this is for deploying protection officers 

at key crossing points from Iraq into Jordan and Syria and the 

other countries. But just on the information that you have at the 

present time, are people being deported from any of those countries 

back into Iraq that you know about? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. There are deportations taking place. We are totally unable right now to tell you what is the rate or who is deported, what are the triggers that make that someone to be deported and someone not. This is something we have to analyze in 

more detail. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is a very sobering circumstance 

where individuals are fleeing with a high risk of facing death, as 

we have listened to today the examples of individuals and what we 

have all read about in terms of the newspapers and finding out 

that individuals going to these countries are now being effectively 

deported out of those countries. It adds a real sense of urgency, it 

seems to me, to make sure that we are going to understand that 

we have got a real humanitarian crisis. The extent of it is difficult 

to assess until we know the numbers, but just the fact that people 

are fleeing on the basis of the threat of their life and then being 

in a country and then told to get out of it, it is something that is 

enormously a matter of great concern. 

Let me ask you, just in this conference, maybe you could describe 

to us the value of having an international conference and then the 

importance of bilateralism. There is probably some responsibilities 

in terms of countries working bilaterally to try and deal with this 

issue and also some advantages of working regionally. Maybe you 

could talk about why both approaches are important. 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Right. The idea of the international conference 

is to get the countries in the region to agree on certain basic criteria on which to recognize the importance of the crisis and the response that is required. 

And it will have to be handled with some care because the refugee world is still something that puts many of these governments 

into a tight corner, and so far they have tolerated people, as I was 

mentioning, without legal status, and they are not very keen for 

legal status to be applied. 

So I think we have to look for the best practical way to maintain 

protection space in these countries, and for that we need the different countries in the region to agree on basic criteria. We also 

need other countries in the region to also contribute in the burden 

sharing, whether it is financial or whether it is through some of the 

evacuations we have suggested, et cetera. So it is to try to build 

some consensus behind that. 

Obviously, the size of the problem that Syria and Jordan face 

will require that there are bilateral initiatives that help these 

countries to support the tremendous stress that the presence of refugees is creating on their services. 

That cannot just be responded to by the humanitarian programs, 

and we hope the conference would also be a channel to challenge 

some countries who are willing to help through their bilateral 

45

means to make sure that these countries do understand that they 

are not alone in facing the crisis. 

Senator KENNEDY. Let me just finally ask you, do you get some 

indication of willingness in those countries in the area that they 

would welcome this opportunity to work with your agency or with 

other countries? Do you find that? Or are they saying that they do 

not need help and assistance? What are you finding? Or does it 

vary from country to country? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. I think it varies from country to country, Senator. I do not have really the details, but I could come back to you 

on that on the very specifics. 

Senator KENNEDY. Good. Well, as you find that out, the indication of the willingness of these countries, it would be helpful for us 

to know that. 

Senator Specter? 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Gabaudan, you say in your prepared testimony that you are 

looking to raise $60 million. How do you arrive at that figure? Is 

it sufficient given the scope, intensity, magnitude of the problem? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Well, it is a practical approach, Senator. As I 

mentioned, it is four times what we received in fresh contributions 

last year. Last year, the U.S. contributed about 26 percent of our 

budget, but practically 50 percent of real contributions. 

Senator SPECTER. Four times what you had last year, but how 

many more times the intensity is the problem than it was last 

year? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Well, we want to address issues practically and 

with what we can deliver. A key—

Senator SPECTER. Are you looking for contributions worldwide, 

from Japan, China, Germany, France, Great Britain? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. We are certainly looking for contributions worldwide. They have not been very forthcoming in the past. We have 

better indications this year. In particular, the European Union has 

been in touch with us, and our Assistant High Commissioner has 

talked to them in detail. So we do hope we will have a better reaction this year. 

Senator SPECTER. I saw a headline in the paper that Sweden was 

a haven for Iraqi refugees. Are you familiar with that? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. I am not familiar with the particular case of 

Sweden, Senator, but I know that in the first half of 2006, the 

number of Iraqi asylum seekers has doubled compared to what was 

the case last year in Europe. And they are now the top nationality 

seeking asylum in Europe. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, with the Europeans being willing to give 

asylum, that is a positive sign that they are trying to help out, and 

that ought to be explored for financial contributions. 

In your prepared testimony, Mr. Gabaudan, you say that, ‘‘In the 

coming months, UNHCR also hopes to convene an international 

conference on Iraqi displacement, possibly in collaboration with the 

Arab League and/or the Organization of Islamic Conference.’’ Why 

only a hope? Why shouldn’t UNHCR take the field and insist on 

an international conference? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Well, we certainly would like to take the lead in 

promoting the idea. We think it is important that there is some reVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:44 Mar 07, 2007 Jkt 033563 PO 00000 Frm 00049 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\33563.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
46

gional ownership, and that is why it is important to talk to regional bodies that would be able to persuade some of their members to join in the conference. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, the regional participation is obviously 

important, but the participation of the United States is indispensable, isn’t it? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Oh, absolutely. The idea is not to limit the conference as strictly a regional issue. What we want is regional commitment to say we have an issue, we have to tackle that. That conference should be attended, in our view, by—

Senator SPECTER. Well, let me make the suggestion that you 

transpose language of hope to language of insistence. 

Mr. GABAUDAN. All right. 

Senator SPECTER. I do not think hope is going to get UNHCR 

very far. I do not know that insistence will get UNHCR very far, 

but it has a much better chance than hope. And then you have the 

situation about Syria, to its credit, being the last country which 

has its borders open to Iraqi refugees. 

This is a good occasion, it seems to me, for the UNHCR to weigh 

in with the United States and say, ‘‘Participate in a conference.’’ I 

think the United States would be hard put, Mr. Gabaudan, to decline to come to a meeting convened by the High Commissioner, regardless of who was present. Would Iran figure as one of the countries that you have in mind for participation on a regional basis? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Well, certainly all the countries affected by the 

displacement in the region—

Senator SPECTER. You are giving me a ‘‘yes.’’

Mr. GABAUDAN. Yes. 

Senator SPECTER. All right. Well, it would be good to see that 

kind of international conference convened, good to see the countries 

involved, including Syria and Iran, there. 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Yes. 

Senator SPECTER. And an invitation to the United States. I think 

it would be very hard for the United States to decline an invitation 

of that sort. 

Mr. Gabaudan, you heard the testimony of Ms. Lisa Ramaci-Vincent and Captain Iscol, right? Any justification at all for the situations which they cite, not to have asylum granted for the individuals that they call to the attention of American officials? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. Well, I cannot judge to what is happening inside 

Iraq, Senator, because inside Iraq we just deal with IDPs and we 

are not—our mandate does not allow us to take people outside 

their country of origin. But certainly the circumstances that these 

two testimonies have evidenced for me make it clear that these 

cases would fall within the categories that we should identify for 

the registration for further processing. 

Senator SPECTER. Do you think that it is true, as Lisa testified, 

that there are some people in the American enclave who do not 

want to admit there is a refugee problem, they want to say that 

Iraq is a democracy and, therefore, refugees do not need asylum? 

Would you think there is much of that kind of an inexplicable attitude? 

Mr. GABAUDAN. I cannot comment upon that, Senator. The only 

thing I can tell you is that the Government has asked us to look 

47

more practically into referring cases to the U.S., which means there 

is, in my view, an official recognition that there is an issue that 

the Government is prepared to address. 

Senator SPECTER. Well, my time expired a few seconds ago. I 

want to thank Senator Kennedy for his op-ed and for his leadership 

in this field. He has been at it for a long time. And this is an oversight hearing with teeth. Not too many oversight hearings in Congress generally. 

The Judiciary Committee has had more than its share recently, 

but this is one with teeth. And I think that the testimony which 

has been given here today by Sami and John—I was about to say 

they put a face on the problem. They put a screen on the problem. 

And the testimony of the Captain and Lisa were really overpowering in the nature of the problem, and the United States is in the 

middle of this problem. I do not think that we are responsible for 

it. I think that we are not to blame for it. 

But certainly we have a major role to play, and I would like to 

see you expand that list of donor countries and set your sights a 

little higher. And get that international conference. I want to see 

all those countries there—Syria, Iran, and whoever else. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator KENNEDY. Well, thank you, Senator Specter, so much for 

your participation, interest, and long-time concern about the problems of refugees. 

Thank you very much to you, Mr. Gabaudan, for being here and 

for these comments. We want to work with you on these issues. We 

expect to do so. 

I am enormously grateful for all of our witnesses, and I, too, join 

in paying tribute to the courage and the bravery of John and Sami. 

These are individuals that represent tens of thousands of people 

that have worked with the United States, worked with the United 

States military, worked with the United States independent contractors, worked with members of the press from the West and because of this have been targeted. 

And I feel that we have a very, very important and strong obligation. It was so overpowering, the testimony about what the risks 

are for them. It is death in its most brutal form. And anyone who 

has been reading and following the newspapers or the television 

knows that this is very real. 

The whole issue about the humanitarian aspects of the Iraq war 

really have not gotten the focus and attention on the numbers. We 

know of the extraordinary bravery of young Americans, and we pay 

tribute to those soldiers every single day. 

We have 61 from Massachusetts who have lost their lives and 

over 3,023, I think it is, who have lost their lives from the United 

States. And the wounded, I have had the opportunity to visit Walter Reed on a number of different occasions, so we know this extraordinary burden that the families have experienced and what it 

has meant in terms of the financing, $8 billion, $2 billion a week. 

Think of the total Pell grant program that helps struggling 

young people go to college of being $12 billion, $12.5 billion, and 

this being $2 billion a week. What we could do with those resources 

here, investing in people, it is an enormous human tragedy. 

48

But we are reminded today about what happens to our friends 

and allies who have been a part of this whole effort, and we have 

real responsibility. It reminds me in a certain way of what we were 

facing in Vietnam. We saw the whole movement of individuals and 

refugees around those countries. 

We had free-fire zones where firing these—dropping bombs and 

firing these enormous explosives into these areas where the civilian 

populations were gathered. And we had a real humanitarian crisis 

in that. It took a long time for this country to recognize it. 

So we are in this Committee going to follow this very, very closely, and we are grateful for all of those who have testified. We have 

great admiration for those who have been helpful, the law firms, 

the students. This is the defining issue, I think, for our country 

and our society. 

We have many defining issues, but certainly this is certainly one 

of them. And we hear a great deal about surges these days. It 

seems to me we need a real surge in humanitarian concern and attention and focus for those people whose lives are at risk. We need 

to have a surge of concern for them as well. 

I will include in the record the documents. I want to make a special note of the Chaldean Federation of America. They have a statement, a comment here. Senator Levin has spoken to me about this. 

And the record will remain open for 1 week, Tuesday, the 23rd. 

And the Committee stands in recess. 

[Whereupon, at 5:01 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

[Questions and answers and submissions for the record follow.]

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