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93–465 2015

ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING AND SBA VIEWS AND 

ESTIMATES FOR THE 114TH CONGRESS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

UNITED STATES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

FEBRUARY 12, 2015 

Small Business Committee Document Number 114–002 

Available via the GPO Website: www.fdsys.gov 

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Congress.#13
(II) 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Chairman 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri 

RICHARD HANNA, New York 

TIM HUELSKAMP, Kansas 

TOM RICE, South Carolina 

CHRIS GIBSON, New York 

DAVE BRAT, Virginia 

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American Samoa 

STEVE KNIGHT, California 

CARLOS CURBELO, Florida 

MIKE BOST, Illinois 

CRESENT HARDY, Nevada 

NYDIA VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

JUDY CHU, California 

JANICE HAHN, California 

DONALD PAYNE, JR., New Jersey 

GRACE MENG, New York 

BRENDA LAWRENCE, Michigan 

ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina 

SETH MOULTON, Massachusetts 

KEVIN FITZPATRICK, Staff Director 

STEPHEN DENNIS, Deputy Staff Director for Policy 

JAN OLIVER, Deputy Staff Director for Operation 

BARRY PINELES, Chief Counsel 

MICHAEL DAY, Minority Staff Director 

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C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENT 

Hon. Steve Chabot ................................................................................................... 1 

Hon. Nydia Vela ́zquez ............................................................................................. 2 

APPENDIX 

Additional Material for the Record: 

Rules and Procedures ....................................................................................... 9 

Oversight Plan of the Committee on Small Business for the One Hundred 

Fourteenth Congress .................................................................................... 23 

Views and Estimates of the Committee on Small Business on Matters 

to be set forth in the Concurrent Resolution on the Budget for Fiscal 

Year 2016 ....................................................................................................... 30 

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ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING AND SBA VIEWS 

AND ESTIMATES FOR THE 114TH CONGRESS 

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2015 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room 

2360, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Steve Chabot [chairman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Chabot, Luetkemeyer, Hanna, 

Huelskamp, Rice, Gibson, Brat, Radewagen, Knnight, Curbelo, 

Bost, Hardy, Vela ́zquez, Hahn, Payne, Meng, and Adams. 

Chairman CHABOT. Good morning. The Committee will come to 

order. 

I call the Committee on Small Business Organizational Meeting 

to order at this time. I want to welcome all the returning and new 

members of the Committee. And before introducing the new Republican members, I would like to take a moment to recognize the 

Ranking Democratic Member, Congresswoman Nydia Vela ́zquez, 

with whom I served as ranking member when she was the chair 

of this Committee back in 2007–2008. We had an excellent working 

relationship for the most part, and I hope to use that example to 

foster civil discourse, even when we have our policy differences. 

And we know, of course, there will be differences in this Committee 

as there are in all Committees, but for the most part, the Small 

Business Committee is one of those Committees, kind of like the 

Foreign Affairs which I also serve on, where there is more to agree 

on than disagree. So I hope that we can continue to have that very 

good relationship that we have both personally and professionally. 

There are seven new Republican members of the Committee. Mr. 

Gibson retired from the United States Army as a colonel, and then 

returned to his hometown in the Hudson Valley of New York when 

he was elected to Congress back in 2010. And we welcome him here 

to the Small Business Committee. 

The other new members that I am going to recognize at this time 

are our freshmen. Mr. Bost served as a state legislator and helped 

run a small business in Illinois. 

Mr. Brat was a professor of Economics and Business at Randolph 

Macon College in Virginia. And it was kind of an earthquake last 

year when he won a primary but we will not go into that. So we 

are welcoming him to the Committee certainly. 

Mr. Curbelo was a small business owner and school board member in Miami, Florida, and we welcome him here to the Committee. 

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Mr. Hardy, Crescent Hardy served in the Nevada state legislature. Where is Crescent? There he is, right here. And owned a 

small construction firm in Nevada. 

Mr. KNIGHT. Mr. Knight is—there he is. Mr. Knight is also a 

veteran. He was a police officer and served in local government and 

the state legislature in California. 

Amanda Radewagen is the first woman to represent American 

Samoa in Congress, and has the title of orator in the village of 

Aumua. 

The very diverse background of our new members will add to the 

experience and expertise of our returning members to create a progrowth agenda for America’s entrepreneurs. 

I would like to welcome back the members who served on the 

Committee during the 113th Congress. Mr. King from Iowa, Mr. 

Luetkemeyer from Missouri, Mr. Hanna from New York, Mr. 

Huelskamp from Kansas, and Mr. Rice from South Carolina. 

And finally, I would like to announce the vice chair of the Committee and the subcommittee chairs for the 114th Congress. Mr. 

Luetkemeyer, who served as vice chair of the Committee in the 

113th Congress will return to that position in the 114th Congress, 

and we are very fortunate to have somebody of Mr. Luetkemeyer’s 

stature and capabilities in case I cannot make it to a meeting or 

whatever because he is a tremendous member of Congress and we 

are lucky to have him. 

Two subcommittee chairs from the 113th Congress also will be 

returning to those positions in the 114th Congress. Mr. Hanna will 

chair, again, the Subcommittee on Contracting and Workforce, and 

Mr. Rice will chair the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, 

and Capital Access. Mr. Curbelo will chair the Subcommittee on 

Agriculture, Energy, and Trade. Ms. Radewagen will chair the Subcommittee on Health and Technology. And Mr. Hardy will chair the 

Subcommittee on Investigations, Oversight, and Regulation. And I 

think we are going to have a great year, a great Committee, and 

we welcome everybody—the new members back and the older 

members, we hope that you will put as much effort into it this Congress as you did last because it was really an excellent Committee 

under the previous chairman, Mr. Graves, and we are going to try 

to follow in his footsteps as far as the way he led this Committee 

because I think he did a very good job. 

And I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Ms. 

Vela ́zquez, to introduce her members. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I, too, want to say that it is a pleasure to have Chairman Chabot 

at the helm because we have worked together before when I was 

the chair of the Small Business Committee and he was the ranking. 

I always say that when it comes to small business, there is no 

republican or democratic approach; that we need to do our best to 

address the issues that will enable small businesses to do what 

they do best, and that is to create jobs and to expand our economy. 

I look forward to a cordial, productive, substantive working relationship with the chairman and to be able to pass bipartisan legislation the way we did when I was the chair. I always recognized 

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the right of the minority, and I expect that the chairman will do 

the same. I am confident that will happen. 

Also, I would like to welcome the members of the committee, new 

members and all members from both sides of the aisle. 

We have two new members joining us, Brenda Lawrence of 

Michigan. I believe she is not here yet. Representative Lawrence is 

new to Congress this term. She is a former mayor of Southfield, 

Michigan, and a former long-time employee of the U.S. Postal Service. She also serves on the Oversight and Government Reform 

Committee where she is ranking member of the Subcommittee on 

the Interior. 

Alma Adams of North Carolina, welcome. Representative Adams 

is new to Congress as well. Prior to being elected to the House, she 

served in the North Carolina House and was also Professor of Art 

History. In addition to this committee, she serves on the Education 

and Workforce Committee and the Agriculture Committee. 

We have several returning members to the committee. With us 

today is Janice Hahn of California. This is her second full term on 

the committee and second in Congress as she initially won a special election in 2011 and filled a portion of that term. Prior to being 

elected to the House, she served on the City Council in Los Angeles. She also served on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. 

Congresswoman Grace Meng hails from Queens, New York, and 

this is her second term in Congress and on the committee. In addition to this assignment, she also serves on the Foreign Affairs 

Committee. An attorney, she previously served in the New York 

State Assembly. 

I look forward to working with all of you during the next two 

years. I thank the chairman and yield back. 

Chairman CHABOT. Thank you very much. The gentlelady 

yields back. 

Now we will move on to the organizational part of today’s meeting. 

There are 28 million small businesses in America, a lot. While 

the members of this Committee will have policy differences, all of 

us have one common goal—to make sure that our small businesses 

can prosper and create the solid middle-class jobs that America 

needs. Given that, there are certainly numerous issues where we 

can find common ground, as the Ranking Member said, that will 

make government more efficient and ensure that the Small Business Administration carries out the will of Congress, rather than 

continually inventing new and untested initiatives. I believe that 

the Rules Package, Oversight Plan, and Budget Views under consideration today will lay the groundwork for finding those areas 

that we have in common, while maintaining the highest levels of 

bipartisanship for which the Committee is known. 

I would now yield to the ranking member, Ms. Vela ́zquez, if she 

would have an opening statement. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for yielding. 

Small business continue to make unprecedented contributions to 

our economy, and we will do whatever it takes to support them. 

They have generated nearly two-thirds of net new jobs over the last 

15 years and are the innovators and drivers of economic progress. 

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Entrepreneurship also serves as the backbone of our nation’s economy, enabling individuals to pursue their dreams and become financially self-sufficient. 

As we move forward, we must make sure that small businesses 

are given the resources and protections they need to prosper as 

both republicans and democrats want and need small firms to succeed and create jobs in our community. I look forward to continuing 

this tradition during the 114th Congress. 

I yield back. 

Chairman CHABOT. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back. 

I would like to thank the majority and minority staffs for their 

hard work and cooperation in putting together this rules package. 

There is only one significant change from the rules adopted in the 

113th Congress. In consideration of the time demands of members, 

I believe it is appropriate to apply the five-minute rule on questioning of witnesses to the Chair, myself, and the Ranking Member. Even with this change, I expect that we will be able to accommodate the needs of all members in questioning witnesses. So basically, we had the opportunity to go on more or less as long as we 

wanted before other members and we are going to make sure that 

we make it as equal as possible so that all members have an opportunity to question witnesses. So we are going to apply that same 

rule to ourselves. And I would now recognize the ranking member, 

Ms. Vela ́zquez, for any remarks that she may have on the rules 

package. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Our committee’s rules are not only a vital institutional requirement, but they also set clear parameters for how we will operate. 

More importantly, they contain protections to ensure that all points 

of view are considered. It is important for members on both sides 

of the aisle to note that in most regards, these are the same rules 

that I used when I was chair of the committee, and I believe this 

is a testament to Chairman Chabot’s leadership. 

In this day and age when too many try to stack the rules in their 

favor, it is refreshing that this committee does not have to be concerned about those distractions. A committee that is run openly 

and with a sense of community is a committee that works and can 

best achieve its objective. It is my hope that the rules we consider 

today will make this happen. 

I yield back. 

Chairman CHABOT. Thank you. 

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for a 

statement on the rules package? 

If not, the Committee now moves to consideration of the rules 

package. The clerk will read the title of the document. 

The CLERK. Rules and procedures adopted by the Committee on 

Small Business, United States House of Representatives, the 114th 

Congress 2015–2016. 

Chairman CHABOT. I ask unanimous consent that the rules 

package be considered as read and open for amendment in its entirety. 

Does any member seek recognition for the purpose of offering an 

amendment? 

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Seeing no amendments, the question is on adopting the rules. All 

those in favor say aye. 

All opposed say no. 

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. 

The ayes have it. 

The rules for the Small Business Committee of the 114th Congress are adopted and the staff is authorized to make technical and 

grammatical changes. 

Today’s second order of business is to consider the Committee’s 

Oversight Plan. This plan represents the agenda for the Committee 

during the 114th Congress. I wish to thank the ranking member, 

Ms. Vela ́zquez, for her input into the Oversight Plan. The plan is 

very similar to that adopted in the 113th Congress with a slightly 

greater emphasis on performing an examination of SBA programs. 

It is my view that the plan recognizes this Committee’s broad oversight authority under the rules of the House to investigate any 

problem affecting small business. 

At this point, I would yield to the Ranking Member for nay comments she may have on the Oversight Plan. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The oversight plan sets forth a policy framework for our work 

this Congress, and the chairman is to be commended on producing 

a thoughtful document. The plan calls for the robust oversight of 

the SBA and other federal small business initiatives, a long tradition that this committee takes seriously. It also delineates several 

programs for review and possible termination. In this context, the 

committee has forged a bipartisan consensus opposing the SBA’s 

continued creation of unauthorized pilot programs. Diverting taxpayers’ dollars away from proven programs can often open the door 

to fraud, waste, and abuse, something we are all working to minimize. Whether it is the SBA or other matters of importance to 

small businesses, Congress needs a clear agenda of assisting them, 

and it is paramount that we start addressing these issues as soon 

as possible. By doing so, we have the potential to truly help create 

new jobs and move the economy forward. 

With that, I urge members to approve this oversight plan. 

I yield back. 

Chairman CHABOT. Thank you. 

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for a 

statement on the Oversight Plan? 

If not, the Committee now moves to consideration of the Oversight Plan. The clerk will read the title of the document. 

The CLERK. Oversight Plan of the Committee on Small Business 

for the 114th Congress. 

Chairman CHABOT. I ask unanimous consent that the Oversight 

Plan be considered as read and open for amendment in its entirety. 

Does any member seek recognition for the purpose of offering an 

amendment? 

Seeing no amendments, the question is on adopting the Oversight package. All those in favor say aye. 

All those opposed say no. 

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. 

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The Oversight Plan for the Small Business Committee in the 

114th Congress is adopted, and Committee staff are authorized to 

make technical and grammatical changes in the Oversight Plan. 

Today’s third order of business is to consider the Views and Estimates of the President’s Fiscal Year 2016 budget for the Small 

Business Administration. The SBA budget request for Fiscal Year 

2016 in my view fails to address certain critical matters. These 

matters are not items on which the Agency has discretion; they 

have been mandated by Congress. During the last five years, Congress has imposed some 15 requirements on the SBA to complete 

with respect to its government contracting programs. The SBA only 

has completed one of those tasks. Despite this, the SBA budget request makes no mention of these mandates. The SBA is required 

to have an individual whose primary responsibility is to oversee acquisition management within the Agency, the chief acquisition officer or CAO. This is a significant vulnerability for the SBA in my 

view and for the taxpayers. Yet, the Agency’s response is to assign 

the CAO’s duties to the chief financial officer, thereby distracting 

the chief financial officer from providing appropriate oversight to 

the SBA’s $100 billion loan portfolio. 

In addition, the Agency does not have an individual that serves 

as the chief information officer even though it is a statutory requirement. This compounds the problem of overseeing the SBA’s information technology, including the Loan Management Accounting 

System that uses 1960s technology and that the inspector general 

continues to cite as a critical vulnerability. 

While the Agency continues to ignore congressional mandates, the budget request has the audacity to request over $40 million for 

initiatives of its own design. The SBA’s first responsibility is to 

complete the tasks mandated by Congress before it expends funds 

on untested initiatives the Agency believes will help small businesses. Even if the SBA had completed all of the tasks assigned to 

it by Congress and filled the statutory mandated management positions, the budget request priorities still, in my view, are misplaced. 

The budget request makes no mention of adding more key personnel who will help small businesses enter or compete in the nearly $500 billion federal procurement marketplace. Instead, the SBA 

requested nearly $37 million to provide entrepreneurial training 

that duplicates longstanding programs operated by the SBA and its 

partners, such as Small Business Development Centers and 

SCORE. 

The views and estimates that we are considering today highlight 

these problems and asks for a reduction of SBA’s budget while judiciously reallocating funds to areas that will reduce agency 

vulnerabilities and prove more effective in assisting small business 

owners. 

At this point, I would like to yield to the ranking member, Ms. 

Vela ́zquez, for any comments she might have on the Committee’s 

views and estimates. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The SBA continues to be an important agency for spurring economic activity. Through its access to capital, procurement, and entrepreneurial development programs, the agency assists hundreds 

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sion gives this committee the opportunity to assess the agency’s 

priorities on whether it is carrying out its statutory mission appropriately. The SBA’s near-term blueprint for accomplishing its mandate is its Fiscal Year 2016 budget request of $860 million. This 

funding will enable the agency to continue to provide loans, contracts, and training to small businesses across the country. In this 

capacity, the SBA truly plays a vital role, strengthening our economy and promoting job creation. 

In many areas, I concur with the majority’s views and estimates 

on this project. This includes opposing unauthorized pilot programs 

which continue to grow unchecked at the agency. Policing SBA’s 

contracting programs has unfortunately become a necessity and 

this needs to be a top priority. Finally, I am glad to see that the 

majority opposes the administration’s 504 refinancing proposal. 

Such an initiative is outside of the mission of the underlying program’s purpose and places undue risk on taxpayers. 

However, in several areas the views and estimates take cost-cutting measures a bit too far. It supports abolishing the Prime program as does the administration itself. This program should continue to be funded as it provides resources to low income entrepreneurs seeking to become self-sufficient. Critics say Prime is duplicative, but that is a hard case to make when the Microloan program is tied to a loan and Prime is tied to capacity building and 

technical assistance. Plus, they barely receive more than 3 percent 

of the agency’s budget. 

Similarly, eliminating the Veterans Business Outreach Center, 

Office of Native American Affairs, and Office of International Trade 

are misguided. While other departments do, in fact, perform similar activities, the SBA operates these initiatives with a small business focus, an element that the other federal entities lack. As a result, these activities should remain in the SBA, and if reform is 

needed, it should be pursued incrementally instead. 

As we all know, disagreement on priorities in the agency’s annual budget is not unusual. As we move forward, I look forward to 

working to refocus the SBA on its statutory mission in a manner 

that is both efficient and prudent. 

And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman CHABOT. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back. 

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for a 

statement on the Committee’s Views and Estimates on the SBA 

budget request for Fiscal Year 2016? 

If not, the Committee now moves to its consideration of the views 

and estimates. The clerk will read the title of the document. 

The CLERK. Views and estimates of the Committee on Small 

Business on matters to be set forth in the concurrent resolution on 

the budget for Fiscal Year 2016. 

Chairman CHABOT. I ask unanimous consent that the views 

and estimates be considered as read and open for amendment in 

its entirety. 

Does any member seek recognition for the purpose of offering an 

amendment? 

Seeing no amendments, the question is on adopting the views 

and estimates on the SBA budget request for Fiscal Year 2016. All 

those in favor say aye. 

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All those opposed, no. 

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the views and 

estimates are agreed to. 

I now recognize the Ranking Member for a motion. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask 

unanimous consent. I would like to give notice pursuant to House 

Rule 11 Clause 2(l), that the committee democrats will be filing additional views with the Budget Committee regarding SBA’s Fiscal 

Year 2016 budget. 

Chairman CHABOT. Without objection, so ordered. 

And the Committee is authorized to make technical and grammatical corrections to the views and estimates. 

I would like to thank everyone and look forward to working with 

all of you. This meeting of the Committee on Small Business is adjourned and the Committee will stand in recess for a few moments 

to prepare for a Committee hearing. We do have a hearing following up, so members and anyone here that would like to stay, 

we will be starting that up in just a moment or two so we can get 

the witnesses in there. 

So at this time, the Committee is briefly adjourned. We will be 

back shortly. 

[Whereupon, at 10:25 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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