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THE LACK OF DIVERSITY IN LEADERSHIP

POSITIONS IN NCAA COLLEGIATE SPORTS

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE,

AND CONSUMER PROTECTION

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND

COMMERCE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

FEBRUARY 28, 2007

Serial No. 110–7

(

Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

energycommerce.house.gov

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan, Chairman

HENRY A. WAXMAN, California

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia

EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York

FRANK PALLONE, JR., New Jersey

BART GORDON, Tennessee

BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois

ANNA G. ESHOO, California

BART STUPAK, Michigan

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York

ALBERT R. WYNN, Maryland

GENE GREEN, Texas

DIANA DEGETTE, Colorado

Vice Chairman

LOIS CAPPS, California

MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania

JANE HARMAN, California

TOM ALLEN, Maine

JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois

HILDA L. SOLIS, California

CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas

JAY INSLEE, Washington

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin

MIKE ROSS, Arkansas

DARLENE HOOLEY, Oregon

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York

JIM MATHESON, Utah

G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina

CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana

JOHN BARROW, Georgia

BARON P. HILL, Indiana

JOE BARTON, Texas

Ranking Member

RALPH M. HALL, Texas

J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois

FRED UPTON, Michigan

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida

NATHAN DEAL, Georgia

ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky

BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming

JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois

HEATHER WILSON, New Mexico

JOHN SHADEGG, Arizona

CHARLES W. ‘‘CHIP’’ PICKERING,

Mississippi

VITO FOSSELLA, New York

STEVE BUYER, Indiana

GEORGE RADANOVICH, California

JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania

MARY BONO, California

GREG WALDEN, Oregon

LEE TERRY, Nebraska

MIKE FERGUSON, New Jersey

MIKE ROGERS, Michigan

SUE WILKINS MYRICK, North Carolina

JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma

TIM MURPHY, Pennsylvania

MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas

MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

PROFESSIONAL STAFF

DENNIS B. FITZGIBBONS, Chief of Staff

GREGG A. ROTHSCHILD, Chief Counsel

SHARON E. DAVIS, Chief Clerk

BUD ALBRIGHT, Minority Staff Director

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE, AND CONSUMER PROTECTION

BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois, Chairman

JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois

G.K. BUTTERFIELD, Georgia

JOHN BARROW, Georgia

BARON P. HILL, Indiana

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia

EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York

DIANA DEGETTE, Colorado

CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas

MIKE ROSS, Arkansas

DARLENE HOOLEY, Oregon

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York

JIM MATHESON, Utah

CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida,

Ranking Minority Member

J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois

ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky

CHARLES W. ‘‘CHIP’’ PICKERING,

Mississippi

VITO FOSELLA, New York

GEORGE RADANOVICH, California

JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania

MARY BONO, California

LEE TERRY, Nebraska

SUE MYRICK, North Carolina

MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

(II)

(III)

C O N T E N T S

Page

Barton, Hon. Joe, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas,

opening statement ................................................................................................ 5

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 6

Burgess, Hon. Michael C., a Representative in Congress from the State of

Texas, opening statement .................................................................................... 9

Butterfield, Hon. G.K., a Representative in Congress from the State of North

Carolina, opening statement ............................................................................... 8

Hill, Hon. Baron P., a Representative in Congress from the State of Indiana,

opening statement ................................................................................................ 9

Ross, Hon. Mike, a Representative in Congress from the State of Arkansas,

opening statement ................................................................................................ 4

Rush, Hon. Bobby L., a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois,

opening statement ................................................................................................ 1

Schakowsky, Hon. Janice D., a Representative in Congress from the State

of Illinois, prepared statement ............................................................................ 11

Stearns, Hon. Cliff, a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida,

opening statement ................................................................................................ 3

Terry, Hon. Lee, a Representative in Congress from the State of Nebraska,

opening statement ................................................................................................ 7

Towns, Hon. Edolphus, a Representative in Congress from the State of New

York, opening statement ...................................................................................... 6

WITNESSES

Brand, Myles, president, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, Indianapolis, IN ............................................................................................................... 14

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 111

Hill, Fitzgerald, president, Arkansas Baptist College, Little Rock, AR .............. 26

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 86

Jackson, Jesse L., Sr. president, Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, Chicago, IL ........... 12

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 46

Keith, Floyd, executive director, Black Coaches Association, Indianapolis, IN . 28

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 50

Lapchick, Richard E., chair, DeVos Sport Business Management Program,

and director, Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport, University of

Central Florida College of Business Administration, Orlando, FL .................. 30

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 61

Richardson, Nolan, former head basketball coach, University of Arkansas ....... 32

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 72

Weiser, Tim, director of athletics, Intercollegiate Athletic Agency, Manhattan,

KS .......................................................................................................................... 33

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 68

(1)

THE LACK OF DIVERSITY IN LEADERSHIP

POSITIONS IN NCAA COLLEGIATE SPORTS

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2007

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE,

AND CONSUMER PROTECTION,

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE,

Washington, DC.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:40 a.m., in room

2322 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Bobby L. Rush

(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Members present: Representatives Schakowsky, Butterfield, Barrow, Hill, Towns, Ross, Dingell [ex officio], Stearns, Whitfield,

Terry, Burgess, and Barton [ex officio].

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BOBBY L. RUSH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Mr. RUSH. We are going to call this subcommittee to order. My

opening statement will be reflected with these words. First of all,

I would like the witnesses to please relocate, if you will, to the witness table there, Reverend Jackson and Dr. Brand. We will have

opening statements from the members of the subcommittee and

then that will be followed by opening statements from our witnesses and then we will have questions and answers from both entities.

I want to remind members that our rules indicate that if you

pass on your opening statement, that will give you 3 additional

minutes for questioning, and so we will proceed in that order.

Today is the last day of February, the last day of Black History

Month. Three and a half weeks ago, two African-American head

coaches, Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith, made history and faced

each other in Super Bowl XLI. Consequently, as the chairman of

this subcommittee, I believe this hearing, our first of the 110th

Congress, and its subject matter are very, very timely.

For all of the success people of color have made in obtaining

high-profile leadership positions in professional sports, similar

progress in college athletics remains stubbornly elusive. Even

though we have come to believe that sports is the one segment of

American society that is colorblind, it seems that African-Americans and other minorities still face professional barriers and cannot

achieve the levels of success that their white male counterparts

enjoy. Today I hope to find out why this is the case and what has

to be done.

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Currently there are only 16 people of color who are athletic directors of Division I–A college programs. Twelve are African-Americans, three are Latinos and one Native American. While roughly 25

percent of college basketball coaches are African-American, only

seven of the 119 NCAA Division I–A college football teams have African-American head coaches. This homogeneity is actually more

profound at the Division II and III levels. Indeed, overall, of the

616 football programs that are affiliated with the NCAA, excluding

historically black colleges and universities, only 14—I repeat, only

14 are African-American. Similar numbers hold true for women’s

sports and the inclusion rates for Latinos and Asians are equally

dismal.

Lastly, it is worth noting that not a single commissioner of a Division I athletic conference is a person of color, not one. What is

going on here? The usual excuse for such disparities is that as a

result of social historical circumstances, African-Americans and

people of color have not been in the job market long enough and

haven’t had enough time to build the requisite experience. This is

an excuse that is profoundly in error as a general matter and it

certainly doesn’t hold any water in the sports marketplace. AfricanAmericans have a long-established and successful history in collegiate sports at the highest level and the talent pool for black head

coach and athletic director candidates is overflowing with qualified

candidates. There is simply no good excuse for this lack of diversity

in the higher echelons of college athletics.

I am fully aware of the cynicism that some of my colleagues on

this committee have privately expressed about this hearing. I further realize that some members do not believe that this is a topic

that is worthy of a congressional hearing. Quite frankly, I think

this type of thinking is elitist and indicative of a sheltered and

privileged mindset. For the record, let me state that I have sat

through many hearings where I have been subject to, in my humble opinion, worthless, insulting and inane subject matters. Well,

in my neck of the woods, we have a saying, ‘‘What is good for the

goose is good for the gander’’, and with that stated, let me be clear,

racial discrimination, intentional or unintentional, should always

be the target of congressional inquiry no matter when and where

it takes place. Moreover, I believe that racial and gender discrimination in the leadership ranks of college sports is especially worthy

of our examination today.

First, athletic scholarships are often the only way qualified students from disadvantaged backgrounds can obtain a college education. A large percentage of these student-athletes are minorities

and it is extremely important that these young men and women

have access to role models and mentors who reflect their diverse

background.

Second, and just as importantly, NCAA college sports is literally

a multibillion dollar business. Cable and television broadcast

rights, merchandising, advertising revenues, these are all cash

cows that have turned college athletics, particularly football and

basketball, into commercial juggernauts that make up an integral

part of our popular culture. It is interstate commerce in its purest

sense. The fact that a sizable portion of this billion-dollar revenue

stream is being generated by minority student-athletes but minoriVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
3

ties are not part of the upper tier of strategic and decision-making

leadership roles presents a disturbing two-tier situation that

should raise a lot of eyebrows and a lot of tough questions.

Finally, let me thank our distinguished panelists who are here

before us today. All of them have done a great job of raising this

issue in the public arena, promoting awareness and spurring lively

discussion. It is my sincere hope that today’s subcommittee hearing

with our distinguished guests will shed light on a problem that has

plagued not only college sports but society for far too long. Indeed,

sunshine is often the best disinfectant. On this last day of Black

History Month, let us hope that the sunshine of this hearing moves

us one step closer even if the step is a small step to a truly colorblind society and make America better for all of us.

Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. I want to

now recognize my distinguished colleague from the State of Florida,

the minority ranking member of this subcommittee, Mr. Stearns,

for 5 minutes.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CLIFF STEARNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE Of FLORIDA

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate your

calling this hearing and continuing the tradition of this subcommittee to use our jurisdiction to examine sports issues, which we did

many times when I was chairman. You and I have worked together

on other issues in telecommunication and I look forward to working

with you on this. We have worked on previous sports issues and

I think we have an opportunity to continue this history.

I would like to take a moment and welcome three new members

to my side of the aisle. One is J. Dennis Hastert, who is the former

Speaker of the House, is now on our subcommittee. I am very

proud and pleased that we will have his participation, his leadership and his wisdom. Vito Fossella from New York is also a new

member to this committee, and Sue Myrick from North Carolina,

so I welcome these there new members.

Mr. Chairman, this is not the first time this subcommittee has

examined issues that affect collegiate sports. In the last Congress,

we examined the prevalence of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs and the policies to keep them out of the sports arena

at the professional and collegiate level. Before that we looked at a

variety of issues affecting amateur sports including commercialism

and the welfare of student-athletes. We also worked in a bipartisan

manner to move legislation regarding the conduct of unscrupulous

sports agents who targeted collegiate athletes. I know my colleague

from Tennessee had his bill. We had a hearing on it. We were very

successful in getting it through the sub and full and through the

House. This bill was finally enacted into law and it started at this

subcommittee.

Today’s hearing should seem out of place in the year 2007. I

think a lot of people are quite surprised but I agree with you: we

should be looking at the numbers. You have given some valid statistics here when you talk about 119 Division I schools, and out of

that six are African-Americans and one are Latino, and those are

something worth looking at and understanding why this happened.

But looking at the numbers, it is hard to come up with any plauVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
4

sible reason why there are so few minority head football coaches

and other leadership positions at NCAA schools, particularly in

light of the fact that we had two African-American coaches in the

NFL Super Bowl, showing the competence and the qualification of

these individuals. Surely, surely, it should also be seen that this

expertise is available in the Division I schools.

There are other areas that we can talk about. I think the chairman has also given many statistics to point out that there is a lot

of work for Dr. Brand and the NCAA to work in and yet at the

same time they have been pressuring universities such as the University of Illinois to change their nickname and mascot and I think

that perhaps is one area he could work at but I think there is much

more broader areas where he could use his influence, and I would

suggest that he look at that too.

Another question, I think, Mr. Chairman, what are the benefits

and pensions for these NCAA coaches? Does the NCAA have any

say-so? Can they help out? There are a lot of coaches that are making a lot of money but what about those coaches that are not? So

there is a host of questions that we can ask today and I look forward to the hearing, and I appreciate your calling it.

With that I yield back.

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Ross is recognized for 5 minutes.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE ROSS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

Mr. ROSS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today’s hearing

on the lack of diversity in leadership positions in NCAA collegiate

sports. I would also like to thank the panel of witnesses who have

joined us here today, especially two from my home State of Arkansas, Dr. Fitz Hill and Coach Nolan Richardson, both from Arkansas. Both Dr. Hill and Coach Richardson have made tremendous

contributions to collegiate sports and are well qualified to speak on

today’s topic.

As we know, Coach Richardson was a college basketball coach at

the University of Arkansas where he was the winningest coach in

Razorback history, compiling a 389–169 record in 17 seasons.

Coach Richardson gained national recognition by taking the Razorbacks to three Final Four appearances in the 1990’s including winning the NCAA national championship title in 1994 when he also

took home Coach of the Year honors. Coach Richardson is also the

only head coach to win a junior collegiate championship, the NIT

Tournament and the NCAA Tournament. Coach Richardson’s successful career in coaching has truly been an example that has

paved the way for some African-Americans in the ranks of coaching

but not nearly enough.

Dr. Hill, who is currently president of Arkansas Baptist College,

received his degrees in communications and physical education

from Washita Baptist University in 1987. In 1989 he was hired to

become an assistant football coach for the Arkansas Razorbacks.

He went on to serve on the Razorback staff for five different head

coaches over a period of 12 years but perhaps the most important

reason that Dr. Hill is here is because in May 1997 he was awarded the doctorate of education degree from the University of Arkansas where his doctoral dissertation was entitled ‘‘Examining the

5

Barriers Restricting Employment Opportunities Relative to the

Perceptions of African-American Football Coaches at NCAA Division I–A Colleges and Universities.’’ Dr. Hill is now working on his

first book related to racial disparities in NCAA coaching, and I look

forward to reading it. I believe we will all be able to learn from it,

Dr. Hill.

I am pleased that both these remarkable men who have contributed so much to the State of Arkansas are here today to share

their perspectives on racial disparities in the NCAA collegiate

sports, and I believe, Mr. Chairman, that we can certainly learn

from both of these fine men from my home State of Arkansas.

Mr. RUSH. I recognize the former chairman of the full committee,

Mr. Barton.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE BARTON, A

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Mr. BARTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I listened with some

pain to Mr. Ross’s accolades to Coach Richardson. As a Texas A &

M graduate and devotee of the late Shelby Metcalf, who coached

the Aggies for many years, I was on the wrong end of many of

those victories that you just talked about, but I understand that we

have to boost the home team.

It is good to have the father of a famous son with us today in

our presence. It is good to know where the chip off the old block

gets some of his pizzazz from, so we are glad to have the Reverend

Jesse Jackson here.

I am going to put my opening statement in the record, Mr. Chairman, but I want to put one thing to rest that you said in your

opening statement. Unequivocally, the minority supports you holding this hearing without reservation. I too have sat through many

inane hearings, some of which I called myself, and——

Mr. RUSH. I know.

Mr. BARTON. So let us just get the record straight: The minority

supports this hearing. It is a serious issue when at this stage of

our great Nation’s history there are as few minority professional

head coaches and athletic directors and administrators in the

NCAA. It is a worthy hearing. I don’t know what the remedy is.

I will reserve the right on being supportive of whatever legislative,

if any, remedy but we are absolutely committed to supporting you

in holding this hearing, and if it needs to be a series of hearings,

we will be very supportive of that.

I come from Waco, Texas. I was in the first integrated high

school in Waco. I was a 6-year athletic starter in football and baseball, lost my starting position to a young athlete who happened to

be African-American for the simple reason he was better than I. He

was a better player. And when the coach came to me and said, ‘‘Are

you OK with that, Barton?’’ I said, ‘‘Well, I wish I was 20 pounds

heavier and about a second faster and then I wouldn’t be OK with

it, but he is a better player.’’ So I don’t talk about my athletic

prowess because I wasn’t very proud.

Mr. RUSH. You said you played for 6 years. Did you flunk?

Mr. BARTON. Well, no. I got to play football because I was the

only one they thought was smart enough to read the hand signals

and they didn’t understand that I was blind as a bat so I couldn’t

6

see them anyway, but that is a different story. But we are very

supportive of you holding these hearings, and if there is something

we can do to support some changes in NCAA, we will be supportive

of that also, and with that, I yield back.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Barton follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JOE BARTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM

THE STATE OF TEXAS

The purpose of this hearing is to explore the diversity in athletic directorships and

head coaching in NCAA collegiate sports. The Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade,

and Consumer Protection has a strong bipartisan history in many areas, including

investigations on various issues in both professional and collegiate sports.

We all agree that many professional and collegiate athletes are role models for

young people, but our aspiring young athletes should also have people to whom they

can look to for guidance and advice. Role models are important in terms of shaping

an athlete’s professional and personal futures. To the extent we can encourage diversity in positions providing role models to our young athletes, we should.

I thank the distinguished witnesses with us today for participating and sharing

their views. It is important we have a full and open debates on this and many other

issues affecting all competition levels of athletics.

Mr. RUSH. The next member recognized will be Mr. Towns of

New York for 5 minutes.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EDOLPHUS TOWNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW

YORK

Mr. TOWNS. Let me thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for

holding this hearing and to say to you that I will not take the entire 5 minutes but I want you to know that when we started talking about the student-athlete’s right to know, there was a lot of

criticism as well. At that particular time students were not graduating, they were playing 4 years and then going back home with

no degree and people said that we should not be involved in this

and didn’t think that Congress should entertain, but as a result of

our involvement now, the graduation rate has increased tremendously and that the graduation rate among student-athletes is now

higher than the student body and that is basically because of the

student-athlete’s right to know.

Now, in the meantime, a lot of people did not support it then and

of course felt that we should not be involved. Well, I want to encourage you to be involved because the issue that you are dealing

with now is about fairness. That is what we are talking about, fairness, and I think that if the Congress is not going to be about fairness, then what is the Congress going to be about? So I am hoping

that you will continue to look at this issue and let us begin to bring

people in and talk about it and recommend a fix, and of course, if

it is not fixed, there is a lot of legislative things that can be done

that can fix it, and as we continue to talk to experts, people who

have been involved in the business, we will be able to get information from them and use that to be able to. I just would hope that

we would not move too quickly. We want to make certain that we

have enough information and bring experts in, and once we get

that information, I think to take action, and let us face it, you are

always going to be criticized.

You have to understand, there are people out in the world that

all they do is criticize. They specialize in criticism. I have heard

7

stories of whole families that all they do is just criticize. The greatgranddaddy is a criticizer, the granddaddy, all the grandchildren,

and the story goes that a lady married into the criticizing family

and of course she thought that she would be able to stop this fellow

from criticizing and that she was doing all she could to stop him,

and the story goes that he came downstairs one morning and she

is trying to be helpful and stop him from criticizing. She said,

would you like to have breakfast, and of course he said yes, I would

like to have breakfast. So what would you like to have. He said I

would to have two eggs, I would like to have one boiled and one

fried and I want it in front of me in 7 minutes. So she ran over

to the stove, brought it back in front of him. He looked at it, he

said there you go again, you fried the wrong egg.

So, Mr. Chairman, you are always going to have folks that are

going to criticize you. Don’t worry about that. Just do what you

have to do on behalf of the people of this Nation, and this is an

issue that we should not ignore. This is an issue that we should

deal with because a lot of folks are on the outside because of unfairness.

Mr. RUSH. I recognize Mr. Terry for 5 minutes.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LEE TERRY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA

Mr. TERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do appreciate that you

are holding this hearing today. I do think this is a legitimate issue

when you have out of 119 Division I colleges only eight minority

representatives as head coaches, and frankly, I think University of

Nebraska, although we don’t have a African-American or minority

head coach, our former coach, Tom Osborne, did a good job of

grooming Tony Samuels and one of my classmates and a friend,

Turner Gill, to be head coaches, and maybe that is the way we can

look at this.

I do want to say a couple of things that were not part of my

thoughts when I walked in here today, and that is the discussion

about criticism of holding this hearing. Frankly, I hadn’t heard any

criticism of holding this hearing. The folks I have talked to on our

side, no one that I know of has said anything negative about holding this hearing, in fact, that it is a very legitimate issue and

frankly we kind of enjoy bringing NCAA folks in here and exercising our jurisdiction in that way. So I compliment you on doing that,

and I certainly would not associate with any potential criticism out

there. I want to say it is legitimate.

There is one thing I would say that is not related to the subject

matter that is a criticism. I am sure it is unintentional, by all

means, but the Republican Conference is held every Wednesday

from 9 to 10 so holding a hearing at 9:30 forced the Republican

side to have to choose between attending their weekly conference

or attending the hearing. Obviously I chose the hearing over the

conference but I would appreciate if we didn’t have to have that

conflict in the future, and I yield back.

Mr. RUSH. That is another boiled egg/fried egg kind of criticism.

Mr. Butterfield is recognized for 5 minutes.

8

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. G.K. BUTTERFIELD, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH

CAROLINA

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I

too would like to thank you for convening this very important hearing today. I would also like to thank the two witnesses for joining

us, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, whom I have known for at least

30 years, probably more, and Dr. Brand. Thank you both very

much for coming to be with us today.

I am probably, Mr. Chairman, the only one except for maybe

Congressman Towns, who remembers when Reverend Jackson

played football at A & T College in Greensboro, North Carolina.

That was many years ago, but he was certainly not only a distinguished student but a distinguished athlete as well.

Mr. Chairman, we just saw the Super Bowl on television the

other day and it was certainly an extraordinary event. It was a remarkable milestone that we had two African-American head coaches who met for the first time in the Super Bowl. It highlights the

fact, Mr. Chairman, that African-American coaches can compete at

the highest professional level and win at the highest level. I am

hopeful that this historical event opens the door even wider for

even more minority coaches. Hopefully it is a clear signal that race

is becoming less and less of an issue for teams at the highest level.

One of the ways the NFL has tried to deal with a lack of diversity among head coaches is the so-called Rooney Rule where minority candidates must be considered and interviewed for open jobs.

Seeing Dungy and Smith coach against one another in the Super

Bowl and the Giants’ recent hiring of Jerry Reese, the NFL’s third

black general manager, could lead to suggestions that progress is

being made quickly. Although it is a start, there is still a long way

to go at all levels before we reach a time when diversity and equal

opportunity exist for all.

Outside of the historically black colleges and universities, there

are only 16 African-American head football coaches among all of

the colleges in Divisions I, II and III. That is just 16, I repeat, 16

out of 616 programs across the country. During the 2006 season,

only five of the Nation’s Division I–A college football programs

were led by black coaches. They accounted for just 4 percent of the

coaching jobs while black players make up 46 percent of Division

I football players. There are also just five black athletic directors

at Division I–A schools and just four of the Nation’s 119 schools

have black presidents, and the number of black coaches is growing

so slowly that at the current rate we will be closing in on the next

century before we near representation or diversity. Mr. Chairman,

this is unacceptable, it must change, and I want to thank the chairman for his vision. You have talked with me privately and you

have told me where you want to take this subcommittee, and I appreciate your leadership very much.

I yield back.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Mr. Burgess is recognized now for 5 minutes.

9

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL C. BURGESS, A

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Mr. BURGESS. Thank you, Chairman Rush. Thank you for holding this hearing. Thanks to the witnesses for giving up their time

to be with us today. I know it is painful to listen to opening statements from all members but I will be very, very brief.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out, this also is my first

hearing on this subcommittee. I know it just seems like I have

been over here and been a problem for a lot longer but this is indeed my first hearing on this subcommittee. I hope that through

the leadership and dedication of this subcommittee we can make

some real and lasting impacts for the next generation of American

athletes for our Nation.

Today’s hearing exemplifies some of the challenges that we still

face in America. Glass ceilings should still not be prevalent in the

21st century but unfortunately we all know that they exist. Certainly more needs to be done but I think it is also important to acknowledge some of the steps that have been made already. Out of

the four schools that I represent in the north Texas area, the University of North Texas, Texas Women’s University, Texas Wesleyan

University and North Central Texas College, we have a combined

13 minority head coaches that currently are teaching our young

people in the 26th district. Texas Wesleyan table tennis head coach

Jasnor Reed, who is an African-American woman, and I know,

table tennis, but consider this: for the last 5 years she has led her

team to the National Intercollegiate Championships. That is 2002,

2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. I had the opportunity to be there with

them during the championships last year and, put it this way, it

was much more exciting than I would have thought that a table

tennis tournament would have been. There is a lot of activity during that sport.

But I am proud of the strides that have been made in diversity

in the collegiate sports in the north Texas area. I should point out

that Johnny Jones is the men’s basketball head coach at the University of North Texas. He is ably assisted by Chuck Taylor. Both

of those are African-American individuals. Texas Women’s University you might expect to have a large number of women coaches but

their softball coach is a Hispanic woman as well.

I encourage all of the universities to continue to do what they

need to do to break down the glass ceiling once and for all. I do

hope that we will exercise some care and caution that in our zeal

to promote people we do not deplete the ranks of the smaller colleges and smaller universities of very capable African-American

and minority mentors and role models, but hopefully, Mr. Chairman, this hearing will just be the starting point for this and I look

forward to many more hearings on this subject in the future, and

I will yield back.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. I recognize Mr. Hill of Indiana for 5 minutes.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BARON P. HILL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA

Mr. HILL of Indiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I

would like to welcome my friend, Dr. Myles Brand, who is the

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president of the NCAA. Dr. Brand was also the president of Indiana University when I was in Congress for the 6 years previous to

this last election, and I know him as a man of great integrity and

someone that is very sensitive to this whole issue. I appreciate you

taking the time out of your schedule to meet with us and discuss

this important issue.

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for giving us an opportunity

to discuss this important issue today. As we come to the end of

Black History Month, it is appropriate that we continue the discussion of diversity and equality. I am especially pleased that we are

seriously considering this issue within college sports. As a former

college athlete, I want to ensure that every position, players and

coaches alike, is open to anyone who is qualified. I also believe that

there should be no artificial or racial boundaries regarding the hiring practices within the world of college sports.

Sporting events promote unity more than almost any other cultural event in America. It is up to us all that we make sure that

we do not neglect problems of diversity but rather address them

head on so that sports can continue to bring us all together as a

Nation.

Dr. Brand, I want to applaud your efforts in trying to promote

equality and diversity within the NCAA. I know that from the beginning you have been dedicated to the promotion of diversity within the NCAA. It is my hope that with these hearings we can build

on progress you have made by identifying potential obstacles regarding the hiring practices of the NCAA members and remedies

that might be taken to sure that sports continue to unite Americans both on and off the field.

Mr. Chairman, I grew up in a small rural town in southern Indiana, Seymour, Indiana. This was back in the late 1960’s and the

early 1970’s, and I remember all the civil rights talk and watching

it on television. I can remember as a 16-year-old roughly from a

white high school thinking at the time, what is all the fuss here.

I didn’t understand why this was going on. I then went on to graduate from high school and enrolled on a basketball scholarship at

Furman University in Greenville, South Carolina. My roommate

was an African-American by the name of Clyde Mays. I was

shocked at the treatment of my roommate as we went out and

about Greenville, SC, at the time. There were places that he

couldn’t go into, and it really was an eye opener for me.

And my point in all this is, sometimes people like myself grow

into the realization that discrimination still exists today even. I

didn’t know it back then but I sure got an eye opener when I went

off to Greenville, SC, and so this is a very important issue that we

need to be addressing. I had this same discussion with Dr. Brand

a couple weeks ago in my office. I know that you are keenly aware

that there is a problem that needs to be remedied and you are fully

committed to making sure that happens.

So Mr. Chairman, I echo what everybody else is saying. This is

an important issue. Because of my life experience at Furman University in Greenville, SC, I am very sensitive to it myself, and I

know that we are going to make these corrections as the months

and year go forward. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this

issue, and I yield back the remainder of my time.

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Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Ms. Schakowsky is recognized for 5 minutes.

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it is a pleasure

to see you in the chair on this great subcommittee, and also a real

pleasure to welcome my special friend, Reverend Jackson, who has

been an ally of mine. We have worked together for so many years.

I am anxious to hear our witnesses testify but I just wanted to acknowledge that I am also proud that I came here to add some gender equity to this committee and to this discussion.

I am going to put this statement in the record, which demonstrates my broad understanding of all things sports and the relationship now to the closing date of Black History Month and just

yield back my time. Thank you.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Schakowsky follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN

CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Thank you, Chairman Rush and Ranking Member Stearns for holding todays

hearing on the lack of diverse representation in the leadership of college sports. I

would also like to extend a special welcome to my dear friend, Reverend Jesse Jackson. It is so wonderful to have you here with us—and to have Chicago so well represented today.

What a fitting way to close out this year’s Black History Month, one that began

with a historic sports moment. It was the first time that two African American

coaches faced off in the Super Bowl. Had it only been one coach that made it—say

Lovie Smith leading the Bears to a well-deserved victory—that, too, would have

been history making.

The story of Coaches Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith speak to the importance of

diversity in leadership at the college level. Both started out as college-level coaches,

And, when Coach Dungy was the head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, he gave

Coach Smith—then a secondary coach at Ohio State—a chance at pro-football by

hiring Lovie as the linebacker-coach. If it had not been for their college coaching

experience and Coach Dungy seeing the leadership in Lovie Smith, we might not

have had the chance to share in that tremendously important moment.

However, I must also say that I am disappointed that it is 2007-more than 43

years after this body passed civil rights legislation—and that only now we are making this kind of history. It is also alarming to know that Super Bowl XLI could be

a historic blip on the radar screen because of the low numbers of African American

coaches on the college level—who will be our future professional league coaches,

According to the annual report card on diversity put together by Dr. Lapchick, one

of our witnesses today, college sports arc receiving F’s for lack of race and gender

diversity in leadership positions—from conference commissioners to coaches. An F.

What that grade says to me is that we are not learning our lessons and we need

to do something to turn that grade around now. We cannot afford to miss elevating

great and deserving coaches like Coaches Dungy and Smith because they did not

have the opportunity to hone their skills at the college level.

Clearly, we still have a long way to go to achieve true diversity at every leadership level in professional and collegiate sports. The low number of African-Americans in leadership positions is not because of a lack of talent or ability; it is solely

because of a lack of opportunity. As we move forward, we must foster that opportunity and remove the obstacles that hold back some of the best and brightest

coaches from reaching the highest levels of professional and collegiate sports. I look

forward to hearing from today’s witnesses and their suggestions on what we can do

to break the coaching glass ceiling.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you to all the members. And now we will hear

from our witnesses, and first of all, I want to introduce to this

panel and to those who are present a man who I have loved for the

last many, many decades, a person who has been instrumental in

my life. Indeed, at a pivotal point in my life, he rescued me and

actually to a great extent saved my life, literally saved my life, a

man who is recognized world over as the foremost civil rights leadVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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er, the foremost humanitarian in the whole world. He has an enormous impact on all of us, on this Nation. He has an enormous impact in the sports area and he understands beyond most of our understanding the connection between sports and the commercial dimensions of sports. I am intrigued and excited about the subject

matter that he discussed in an op-ed piece for the Chicago SunTimes on the lack of people of color in athletic director and head

coaching positions in college sports. I want to welcome to this subcommittee my friend, Reverend Jesse Louis Jackson.

Our second witness is a person who I have recently met but have

grown to respect very, very much because of his sincere commitment to this particular issue and his work on behalf of trying to

end the discriminatory practices of the NCAA, a person who

worked at the institution that I graduated from during the time

that I was there and that person is Dr. Myles Brand. As the president of the NCAA, Dr. Brand has used his bully pulpit to be a very

vocal proponent of increased diversity in the leadership rankings of

college sports and a year and a half ago he is to be commended for

creating the Office of Diversity and Inclusion to promote greater inclusion among the member schools. Dr. Brand, you are welcome to

this subcommittee.

STATEMENT OF REVEREND JESSE JACKSON, PRESIDENT,

RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION

Mr. JACKSON. Thank you, Congressman Rush, and to members

of the committee, thank you so much for allowing us to bring this

important subject to the national agenda today.

Let the record show that when African-American coaches do well,

we should never say we are surprised but delighted. Only the ignorant are surprised. It is self-evident that we can coach football. We

had this same drama, can a black be a center on the football team,

initiates all plays, can a black be quarterback. Every position has

been a major hurdle reflecting the social maladies in our culture.

I was delighted to see Dungy and Lovie coach at Super Bowl

time but I was torn over the fact that if Jake Gaither from Florida

A & M had had that same opportunity to go across the street to

Florida State, if Billy Robertson had that same opportunity at

Grambling to go to LSU—that happened many years ago. We didn’t

learn to coach football last January. We are talking about barriers

that lock people out, basically based upon race. I was glad to hear

the Congressman from Arkansas extol these virtues on Coach

Nolan Richardson, who won the NCAA championship, came in No.

2, this and that, the winningest coach. He had been blackballed. He

can’t coach. One of the winningest coaches in American basketball

history goes from the top to the bottom for no rational reason. Here

he sits today having coached the Panamanian team last year, preparing them for the rural games. What is up with the winningest

coach in Arkansas who won the NCAA championship, goes to the

top 4 four times can’t get a job? It speaks loudly.

We are here today in part because fair hiring is a civil rights

issue. Title VII and title IX is why you have people of color in these

schools and title XI is why you have women athletic teams because

it is illegal not to. When we are protected by law, we gain progress.

13

I am delighted, Congressman Hill, that you and Mays were classmates. He was a family friend really, both of us from Greenville,

SC, but it was just amazing how we couldn’t even while I was in

school apply to Furman, and I grew up on University Ridge where

Furman was housed, not because I couldn’t pass the grades. I could

not get admitted.

We are fighting these barriers. Schools with Federal funds have

civil rights obligations. Equal employment opportunity is a civil

right, and the reason why there was some movement in the NFL,

Mr. Chairman, was because of the Rooney Rule: you must at least

consider a black. Democracy does not guarantee results; it guarantees opportunity. You must at least consider. And even with that,

the 32 teams, four of the guys came from one team, Tony Dungy

and Tomlin and Lovie and Herman, four guys from one team, and

two guys from other teams. Even there they figure out ways to get

around it. It is more cultural. It has nothing to do with capacity.

I can’t help but think that when Colorado was No. 1 2 years in

a row that the defensive coach which was credited for giving them

those victories, when Mr. McCartney resigned, he recommended

Bob Simmons to replace him. It was so logical. They had been No.

1 2 years in a row. He was the head defensive coach. They closed

doors and got Newhouser from UCLA, younger and far less resume,

who later ended up being disgraced in some scheme up in Washington or something. Bob Simmons was sent off to Oklahoma State,

a school with less investment, and ended up defeating, to make it

real romantic and poetic, defeating the University of Colorado football team. Bob Simmons was qualified but he was turned away because of closed doors. No worse than University of Alabama. Coach

Croom grew up in Tuscaloosa, hometown boy, All-American, University of Alabama, hometown, played under Bear Bryant, can’t get

better than that in Alabama, but when the deal went down, they

chose Shula from Miami, who had almost zilch resume. He subsequently has been fired, by the way, and Croom went to Mississippi

State. He had hometown credentials, All-American credentials, had

been recommended to be hired as an NFL pro coach but got

knocked out based upon that.

Now, some progress has been made, Mr. Chairman, based on Dr.

Brand’s leadership of raising the academic standards to assure

more graduation take place, and there is a penalty if you don’t

have a certain graduation rate but there is no penalty if you don’t

have black coaches, Latino coaches. There must be something that

makes it a mandate to at least consider and to have some good reason why resume A that is superior goes beneath resume B, which

may not hardly even exist. This thing is profoundly cultural.

Part of what makes this such a big deal to us, why are blacks

so successful in football, basketball, baseball, track, golf and tennis.

It is hard to be a Division I starter. It is hard to be so good when

you become All Conference better, to become All-American. It is

very tough competition. Then to become a pro. Why are we so good

at that which is so difficult to do where you must absolutely coordinate motor, cognitive skills under immense pressure, 40,000 jeering, 40,000, cheering? Why are we so good at what is so hard to

do? Whenever the playing field is even, the rules are public and the

goals are clear, we do well. If on that football field blacks had to

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run 12 yards for a first down to prove something extra and whites

ran 8 yards for a first down because they inherited some yards,

there are fights on the football field. As long as it is 10 yards for

all first downs, 6 points for all touchdowns, we get along quite well.

That does not apply just beyond that mark of where you hire

coaches, athletic directors and college presidents.

What makes this subject exciting to me finally, Mr. Chairman,

is the good that these sports have done for America. Congress is

more hung up really on the issue of race and its hiring practices

in many ways that the athletic world, in part because this is a

zero-sum game. You only have 435 Congressmen, 100 Senators and

it is all a fight for those 535 slots. In this world of athletics, it is

not a zero-sum game. Inclusion leads to growth. When there is

growth, everybody wins, it leads to growth, and what excited me

as I walked amongst the people at the Super Bowl game this year

in Miami to see basic white mothers and their children and their

husbands, the middle America, wearing black football coaches’,

black football players’ jerseys and wearing Tony Dungy hats and to

see blacks from Chicago wearing Brian Urlacher jerseys. What allows us to go beyond this dementing race crisis in athletics is because in this arena, this narrow arena, the playing field is equal

except for coaches, athletics directors, and so if the victory of

Dungy and Lovie means anything, it exposes a light on the obvious.

The obvious is, blacks can coach football, basketball, baseball. They

are not allowed to in the main because of lack of consideration. The

incestuous recycling of who gets hired must be challenged because

these schools are under the regulations of our government because

they get Federal grants and somehow there must be hearings when

they have these high-profile openings and no blacks are considered.

There must be some reason why, and I submit to you, sir, that

EEOC laws must apply here. Civil rights in hiring are as important as civil rights in grades.

Thank you very much.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Jackson appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. Dr. Brand.

STATEMENT OF MYLES BRAND, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL

COLLEGIATE ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION

Mr. BRAND. Chairman Rush, Ranking Member Stearns and other

distinguished members of the subcommittee, I am Myles Brand,

NCAA president. Thank you for holding this hearing on a critically

important issue, and I am pleased to be on a panel with Reverend

Jackson.

There is much to be proud of in collegiate athletics. I am especially pleased with the improved academic success of African-American student-athletes. Today African-American male student-athletes are graduating at 11 percentage points better than other

black males in the student body and African-American females are

graduating 15 points better than their counterparts in the general

student population.

But we also have challenges. Chief among them, in my view, is

the dismal record of hiring people of color as head coaches, especially in football. In my very first public speech as NCAA president

15

more than 4 years ago, I said that one of the most egregious instances of lack of access was the low number of African-American

head football coaches in Division I–A or the Bowl Championship

Subdivision, as it is now called. When I made that statement in

2003, there were four African-American head football coaches in

Division I–A when you exclude the historically black colleges and

universities, the HBCUs. Today there are six. We have gained a

grand total of two in 4 years. There are five more in Division I–

AA, now called the Football Championship Subdivision, two in Division II and only one in Division III, which is our largest division

of schools. That makes a total of 14 African-American head coaches

in all of college football when the HBCUs are excluded. In Division

I–A, 2.4 percent are head coaches where 55 percent of the studentathletes are minorities. Sadly, if the pace of progress remains the

same, it will be more than 80 years before we reach a percentage

that even approximates the number of African-Americans in the

general population. As I have said on more occasions than I can

count, this is not only unacceptable, it is unconscionably wrong.

The NCAA cannot make the hires. The NCAA national office cannot mandate who is interviewed. Member institutions hire coaches

and they are not about to cede authority and give up their autonomy to the NCAA national office to dictate either who they will

hire or who they will interview in coaching or elsewhere. But that

doesn’t mean there is no role for the NCAA. Four years ago I began

working with the Black Coaches Association, the BCA, to address

inequities in the hiring process. The idea was that a more open and

inclusive search would allow talent regardless of race to rise to the

top and be hired. For 3 years now the BCA has prepared and made

public its hiring report card that grades colleges and universities

in Division I on their hiring processes. As a result of public disclosure, more than 30 percent of all candidates interviewed for head

coaching positions over the last 3 years have been minorities. Even

more striking is that 76 percent of all the openings over the last

3 years have had at least one minority candidate interviewed and

more than three out of every four vacancies, a person of color was

interviewed but only nine of the 81 openings in all of Division I

have been filled with a minority candidate. Focusing media attention and expending energy on a collegiate version of the NFL’s Rooney Rule not only ignores the success of the BCA hiring report

card, it also diverts attention from the real issue, which is simply

not enough hires.

In addition to helping develop the hiring report card, the NCAA

national office has developed three coaching academies to help prepare candidates for coaching positions. Academies go beyond the Xs

and Os. The focus is on the other skills that are required to run

a multimillion-dollar operation, hire and manage a staff of two

dozen or more, organize and develop more than 100 student-athletes, recruit in competition with dozens of other teams for the best

talent, help acquire donations for athletic and other departments

in the university, and often to be the most visible person on campus. And oh, by the way, you have to win games. The most elite

of these programs for expert coaches with 8 years’ experience has

had two of its graduates hired as head football coaches in the last

2 years and a third individual, a graduate of the NCAA’s men’s

16

coaching academy, has also joined these ranks. Three of the last

four minority hires have come from the NCAA academies.

The coaching academies have made a difference, the BCA hiring

report card has made a difference and yet not enough hires are

being made. What is next? In my view, we must overcome two additional obstacles. We have to mitigate the risk-averse nature of

those who make football hiring decisions and we have to improve

the informal network so that minority coaches are included. Their

names must be advanced when influential consultants are asked

the question, who can do this job? Those who make recommendations and hires must be as comfortable with African-American football coaching candidates as they are with African-American basketball coaches who now occupy more than 25 percent of the head

coaching jobs in Division I men’s basketball. Incidentally, there is

no Rooney Rule for basketball. Getting top candidates in front of

athletics directors and others before the stress of hiring begins is

the next push we must undertake.

History was made on February 4 when two African-Americans

coached their teams in the Super Bowl. Any institution focused on

the values and success they represent would be proud to hire Lovie

Smith or Tony Dungy as its head coach and both were coaches in

college football but we let both get away. The next Lovie Smith or

Tony Dungy is already in the pipeline. Talented minority coaches

are on our campus in Division I. We simply have to hire them for

the top jobs.

I thank you for this opportunity.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Brand appears at the conclusion

of the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. Thank you very much, Dr. Brand. Let me begin by

asking you a couple of questions that I think are pretty relevant

right now. Both of you have indicated that there is a real serious

cabal in collegiate sports, really an old boys’ network that excludes

minorities from consideration and also from hiring. Can you describe for this subcommittee how that network, if you will, stands

as a barrier to hiring of athletic directors and football head coaches?

Mr. BRAND. Yes. I think it is important to point out, Mr. Chairman, that the hiring process in universities is different from that

in the professional leagues. There are a lot of hands on the wheel

in college, and so it is not just the athletic director and the president getting together in almost all cases. There is a lot of information that goes through in terms of a search committee, in terms of

input from alumni groups, in terms of consultants, and in terms of

other football coaches too, who are, as you know, almost all white.

As a result, all that information comes into the athletic director

and the athletic directors have to make a decision that will affect

their futures and so they have taken a very risk-averse position

and have not been willing to hire African-Americans despite in

many, many cases the noticeable and clear skill and experience of

those individuals.

So I think to move from the search process, which was getting

better in the hiring, we are going to have to look at who is making

the specific recommendations, where are the key points of change

and leverage in that very complex process, and I know that firstVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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hand, having been president of two universities. I have been involved in the hiring of head football and basketball coaches a number of times over. But sitting as a president, what happens is, you

can help make the process more inclusive and that is why I think

we are seeing so many more African-Americans interviewed, but

most presidents don’t know a lot about football or basketball and

then take the advice of others, so we have to look at athletic directors and their committees and others who are providing that input

and have a multi-pronged attack on that.

Mr. RUSH. Well, do you know if any of these presidents hire or

have people on their staff who can be loosely classified or categorized as consultants on these specific matters of racial fairness

in hiring at the athletic level?

Mr. BRAND. Yes. There are two types of people that do that. Almost all our major universities have an office of diversity in which

they have—who oversee the process, not the particular candidate

but will make sure the process is fair. We have to apply that affirmative action fair process to athletics just as we do to deans and

faculty members and so on. We do it often in the rest of the university. Somehow we don’t always do it in the case of athletics. And

second, we have outside consultants who are hired to do the job

who come in and they provide substantive advice. They give names.

Mr. RUSH. Reverend Jackson, do you care to respond?

Mr. JACKSON. Congressman, these same schools can find the

players in the dingiest, most difficult circumstances. They can find

the players. They can’t find the guys who coach the players to

make them qualified to play at this level of athletics. I mean, you

go to X high school that is producing these great athletes and you

look at their coach by and large in the city is African-American.

The issue also is not to be colorblind but to be color caring. Race

is an issue in hiring and recruiting. They will hire blacks to recruit

to go into black neighborhoods and look for ballplayers like scouts

and they hire them and put them on the staff to recruit, and what

makes this—another concern, Congressman Rush, is that in this

area, let us deal with, if a guy is a defensive coach and has a good

defensive resume, there has to be points in that. If an offensive

coach has a good resume, there must be points in that, and when

you look at the Bob Simmons case in Colorado, of the Croom case

in Alabama, resumes had no meaning, and somewhere outside of

resumes, outside of objective criteria, I mean, the best defensive

football coach in America for 2 years in terms of No. 1 couldn’t get

hired at that school. If you just look at the Shula versus Croom resume, it is not even any comparison.

I would think that in the end you who are Congress people who

allocate money to these schools must demand a standard for hiring

and recruiting that is transparent. Without new rules—we do best

when the rules change. We were qualified to vote before 1965.

Until the rules changed, we couldn’t vote. We were qualified to play

baseball before 1947 but until the rules changed—we need rules to

protect us. We cannot depend upon the subjective whim of wellmoneyed alumni groups that somehow operate outside of the university system. The president of the university must be responsible

for who is hired, even though the coach often gets paid more than

the president, I might add. Somehow we have almost run a kind

18

of a parallel scheme here that takes the coach outside of the realm

of the university mandate. I think that cannot be allowed to happen.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Mr. Stearns.

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was pleased that

when I read the statement of Reverend Jackson he indicated what

the real issue is here. Some people will talk about it being fairness

but I was pleased that he mentioned in his opening statement

when he said, ‘‘They simply need to be given an opportunity,’’ and

obviously he is talking about the African-American individuals.

When you look at Lovie Smith or Tony Dungy’s resume and you see

back in 1992 Lovie Smith was a linebacker coach and then in 1994

he was at the University of Tennessee, a defensive back coach, in

1995, defensive back coach, 1996 to 2000, linebacker coach, 2001 to

2003, defensive coordinator. Then he became head coach of the Chicago Bears. The same pattern is for Tony Dungy when he was talking about in 1988 he was the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive coordinator, 1992 to 1995, defensive coordinator, Minnesota Vikings, in

1996 to 2001 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, he was head coach and then

he went to Indianapolis Colts where he was the head coach.

Dr. Brand, you had indicated in basketball there was no Art Rooney Rule and yet we have seen in basketball the coaches. Is that

what I understand you to say?

Mr. BRAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEARNS. OK. And we all know that the Art Rooney Rule

from the Pittsburgh Steelers owner essentially guaranteed that

when someone looked at a coach, there was a mandate that you at

least have one African-American. Is that what I understand the

Rooney Rule to be?

Mr. BRAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEARNS. Now, under this kind of situation, it seems to be

working in basketball but not in football. Is that a fair statement?

Mr. BRAND. Yes.

Mr. STEARNS. And so clearly, the opportunities for African-Americans to make it in basketball are there and it is highly competitive

and these athletes are extraordinarily successful, so in a simple

way, you mentioned two reasons it is not making it in a broad

sense. You said risk-averse and informal rules. Reverend Jackson

doesn’t want to have rules because he realizes if you don’t have

transparency and you have these rules, then people somehow are

able to manipulate those rules and do what they want. So the

transparency is what he is asking for. Now, is the transparency

there in basketball that is not in football?

Mr. BRAND. No, actually there is more transparency right now in

football than there is in basketball in hiring head coaches, and that

is the result of the good work of the Black Coaches Association and

their report card. They make public and they have for the last several years the entire interviewing process and who is being interviewed. What that has done is that we have produced on average

30 percent of the people interviewed for head football coaches in

Division I are African-American. Seventy-six percent of all the

searches have included amongst their final candidates for interviews African-Americans. We have now transparency in hiring AfVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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rican-American head football coaches more than we have in basketball, so that is part of the answer.

Mr. STEARNS. Well, then are you saying that the transparency is

not the key then?

Mr. BRAND. It is not sufficient. It is necessary. We can’t give it

up but it is not sufficient.

Mr. STEARNS. Transparency in football, it is more transparent

than it is in basketball?

Mr. BRAND. Yes.

Mr. STEARNS. But we are more successful in seeing the number

of African-Americans in basketball?

Mr. BRAND. Yes.

Mr. STEARNS. So what gives?

Mr. BRAND. It is the hiring process. I believe it is how the recommendations are made to the president and the board in the universities. We really have to get inside that process. It is a complicated process. Sometimes alumni and boosters have excess control.

Mr. STEARNS. I understand that. It is a money game.

Mr. BRAND. I don’t think that is always the case. I think there

is risk-averse. There is a lack of knowledge of some very fine coaches and we have got to be able to increase that, so we have got to

find a way to get inside those final recommendations. The transparency is there, sir.

Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Stearns, there is also a sense now—there is a

kind of belief that black basketball coaches can recruit black kids

better and can quote, unquote, handle them. There is a sense that

there is kind of an expectation shift that is taking place on the basketball side. You mentioned Tony Dungy. He also, given the Rooney Rule, was asked to come to Green Bay to seek the job as an

offensive coordinator and he was defensive, therefore he didn’t

make it. They asked him to come but Tony—Lovie Smith was Chicago’s fourth choice. Nick Sabin was the first choice and couldn’t

work out team control. He took the job at the lowest price of any

coach in the whole NFL to get a chance to coach. There is not a

player on his bench that makes less money than he makes. He is

the lowest paid person on the personnel and can’t get a contract

signed now after going to the Super Bowl.

Mr. STEARNS. If it is true in terms of recruiting for basketball,

why wouldn’t it be true for recruiting for football? Why wouldn’t

the African-American coach be much more successful at recruiting

in football if using your argument that he does for basketball?

Mr. JACKSON. Ask the hirer, whoever is calling that shot as to

the employer, the alumni group that weighs in. When you close the

door at Colorado and you look at the resume of Newhouser behind

that closed door, ask those people that question because that is

who is making that decision that somehow blacks can’t relate to

alumni groups or they can’t raise money, they can’t do the beyondthe-football field stuff. So I think that what is clear is, there is no

deficit of football capacity to coach but the will to hire, and I would

think when we made the most progress when we were protected by

law. I don’t want to go any further where you have NCAA openings

and what schools get Federal monies not to be accountable on some

20

transparency in recruiting of coaches, not just recruiting of players

process.

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Hill is recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. HILL of Indiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Brand, I was

listening to your comments and was wondering, what stage in the

process, whether it be the search committee, recruiting, what is the

most important area that you need to focus your attention on in

terms of trying to get this turned around?

Mr. BRAND. Yes. I think that is a central question. I couldn’t

agree more with Reverend Jackson. The will to hire is just not

there right now, and I think you have to look at the final recommendation that comes to the president. I mean, although the

president has responsibility and final authority, there is no question about that, but presidents by and large don’t know a lot about

college sports. They think they do but by and large they need good

advice, and the athletic director and those who help the athletic director including consultants and others are providing that advice,

and I think you have to go right to the heart of the decision-making

process, the recommendations that are coming up the line at that

crucial point, and that is where I would look for leverage.

Mr. HILL of Indiana. OK. Reverend Jackson, in listening to your

remarks, I am still not clear in my own mind why we are being

successful in basketball but not football. I am drawing a blank

here.

Mr. JACKSON. I am not sure. It could be—Nolan Richardson, who

has been through this process, might be able to answer that question better. I think what excites me at one level today having

grown up in South Carolina, when I look at University of Clemson,

University of South Carolina, the whole State becomes orange and

white versus red and white instead of black and white. Only athletics can take us to that euphoria, that is because of the rules, but

wonder why they cannot get coaches. They get coaches on those

teams to recruit those black players because they feel they have

more access to the homes but not in fact. The alumni then decides

can we take this leap of faith and trust and one would like to think

that the success of Tony and Lovie has given more people the

heart, quote, unquote, to take the leap, the risk, because the

winningest percentage—I might add, the black coach’s percentage

is higher like the black kids, the athletes’ graduate rates are higher

than the average students. Black coaches’ winning records are

higher than their white counterparts. So everything about this says

that something about this is irrational. The winningest coaches

can’t get the jobs. I can’t believe—Nolan Richardson again, the guy

from Arkansas, he is the No. 1 NCAA championship, he is the No.

2, No. 4 something, he is the—and can’t get a job. What is wrong

with that?

Mr. HILL of Indiana.Well, I agree with you 100 percent. I am just

at a loss as to why again it is—they are not hiring people like him

in football but they are doing it in basketball. I mean, Indiana University has an African-American coach now that I think very highly

of.

Dr. Brand, would you care to offer your—I mean, you have been

involved in this before. You know how the network works.

21

Mr. BRAND. Well, I hired the first African-American head coach

in any sport while I was president of Indiana University and frankly, that was a hard barrier to break through and——

Mr. HILL of Indiana. Let me stop and ask, was this person that

you hired recommended by your select committee?

Mr. BRAND. Yes.

Mr. HILL of Indiana. OK.

Mr. BRAND. Yes, and I think it was a good recommendation. Obviously I went with it. He was a basketball coach, by the way. And

the fact of the matter is, I think most presidents need that good

advice and we have got to figure out a way to provide that advice.

What we have in football like in basketball is a continuing repetition of the decision-making processes and those involved in the decision-making processes that don’t allow for inclusion. We are

caught in a small circle there and we have got to break out of it,

and until we do that, until we get a critical mass of leadership as

we do now in basketball coaches, we are going to be confined in

this small circle and it doesn’t work for these universities. They

need the better talent.

Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Hill, the best news is that black coaches are

qualified. They don’t need to be taught to do it. They are qualified

and they are winning. That is what gets the rub. They are qualified, it is self-evident, and winning. In qualifications, when winning

is not enough, something irrational is cooked in and those persons

who have those qualifications should be protected from those persons who present obvious barriers.

Mr. HILL of Indiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

Thank you.

Mr. RUSH. Dr. Brand, if the search committee says hire, then

where is the resistance? If the search committee makes the recommendation and the hire doesn’t take place, then what is the barrier? Why doesn’t it take place?

Mr. BRAND. Search committee recommendations come through

the athletic director, who usually confers directly with the president and translates, if you like, that information from the search

committee. Too few search committees are looking at just football

expertise and are looking at other issues. Look, the elephant in the

room is race and a number of search committees are concerned and

treat that as a negative when they obviously should not. So we get

that, and as that recommendation comes up to the president, he

works directly with the athletic director who more often than not

obviously is white and looking at the same group of candidates that

they have looked at before. So I think it is that search process as

the recommendation goes up that we have to figure out a way to

break in.

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Terry.

Mr. TERRY. Well, let us follow up on that, Mr. Chairman, where

my question is coming from. I think the two of you have identified

and being experts in your field, I wouldn’t disagree. I think the

search process, the lack of knowledge by the president or chancellor

who approves or the regents board then that approves later, their

lack of expertise. So the issue is since we have identified one of the

more significant aspects of the problem, what is the specific solution that can be reasonably adopted by the NCAA to make sure

22

that the best-skilled coach is hired, especially if they are AfricanAmerican. Doing a Rooney Rule in the NCAA, is there some way

that we can make that by rule, not by legislation but by the NCAA

to really encourage this?

Mr. BRAND. Now, remember, the Rooney Rule only mandates a

best practice for interviews. We already have that. In fact——

Mr. TERRY. And Reverend Jackson even exposed how that can be

abused.

Mr. BRAND. Right, so that is not where the answer lies. I mean,

where I think the answer is lying is making sure that there is direct and informal contact and it can’t just be from the national office of the NCAA. For example, the conferences and the conference

commissioners have begun to hold informal meetings in June and

other times of the year in order to bring together athletic directors

and potential candidates who are African-American head coaches.

Our coaches’ academies not only serve some professional development opportunities but they also bring people together in the same

room. We need to be able to break down those social and informal

barriers so that we know, so that the ADs and others who are making the decisions understand and can interact with these leading

coaches.

Mr. JACKSON. The reason I am so strong, Congressman, on the

rules is that you do benefit people that you know, trust, like and

have to—know, trust, like, have to. If we have to be considered,

then we are in the game. If it based on know, trust and like, we

don’t get in the circle. There is a dimension just beyond know, like,

trust, have to. If you get Federal monies for that school and they

are hiring people, there is something called EEOC, that is called

fairness in hiring. That does not guarantee that the person gets the

job. It guarantees transparency in the consideration, and to that

extent, you begin to move in with the have-to dimension.

Mr. TERRY. In that regard, does that mean that university hiring

within an athletic department is exempt from EEOC review currently?

Mr. BRAND. No.

Mr. TERRY. I didn’t think they were.

Mr. JACKSON. Apparently they are.

Mr. BRAND. No——

Mr. TERRY. Unless a complaint is filed.

Mr. BRAND. EEOC says that in extraordinary circumstances you

can step out of your normal hiring practices. Unfortunately, that is

used too much and is an excuse. So it is within the law but it is

being abused, to be frank about it.

Mr. TERRY. All right. Then there is maybe some way or something that we could do to look at it but I think other regards it

needs to be dealt with by some institutional changes within the

NCAA or, as you said, Dr. Brand, the conferences themselves.

In my minute and a half that is left, just as a college football fan,

it appears to me just over the last 10 to 20 years even though there

are white head coaches, even at the University of Nebraska, the

vast majority of assistants, offensive, defensive coordinators are African-American. Are we seeing that tipping point coming where

just the vast—there is going to be so many more highly qualified

coordinators that are from major programs that are going to be the

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obvious choice for the head coaching position, that we are just

going to see a more natural hiring of African-American coaches? I

would like your comments both from Reverend Jackson and Dr.

Brand.

Mr. BRAND. I would hope so but I am at this point not as optimistic as I would like. I mean, it is true that the pipelines are filling up and that is a very positive sign but until we actually make

the hires, we won’t reach the tipping point. We are not close to the

tipping point right now. We don’t have the critical mass.

Mr. JACKSON. Being at this hearing, Congressman Rush, is making this a public discussion. We have to put light on this discussion. It is absurd. When you look at Lovie being the fourth choice

and he takes them all the way to the top and after he won the

championship last year in this area they kept him from a pay raise.

This time he went all the way to the Super Bowl, and I am glad

that the writers in this sense, white female writers said it is beginning to smell like race. If Bobby Rush or I had said that, it would

take on another, here you go jumping again, but is becoming obvious that something is not passing the smell test when the Super

Bowl coach cannot get paid more than his players. It is that little

tweak there that means that public pressure becomes a factor in

forcing people to think, because if the Chicago Bears fans, they say

he is the guy, and in Indiana, Dungy is the guy. So it is that—that

is the tipping point that must be broken and I think public pressure and your inquiry—if they know that there is a new hire to be

taking place and that your eyes are on them for transparency, that

would be a help. Just that alone would be a help.

Mr. TERRY. Thank you.

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Whitfield, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. WHITFIELD. Thank you, Chairman Rush, and Reverend Jackson and Dr. Brand, we appreciate both of you being with us this

morning on this important subject. Like other members, I certainly

enjoy professional sports and collegiate sports, and I would just ask

you, what is the average salary—maybe Reverend Jackson can answer this question—the average salary of a head coach in the NFL

today?

Mr. JACKSON. I do not know. All I do know is, it has been widely

published that the lowest salary is Lovie Smith, who took the team

to the Super Bowl. That is all I know.

Mr. WHITFIELD. And did you make the comment that he was unable to get a new contract signed or something?

Mr. JACKSON. It is being negotiated right now, and it is becoming

an issue in the public because it is so absurd right now. He is the

guy who is the key man obviously from his success and yet far inferior records are getting better paid but not the same kind of public

back and forth.

Mr. WHITFIELD. And Dr. Brand, do you all keep records of the

race of athletic directors at, say, Division I colleges around the

country?

Mr. BRAND. Yes, we do. The situation for ADs is a little different

from head football coaches. We are at the beginning of seeing some

serious movement and in particular several African-American athletic directors are now at the very best jobs and are moving between positions, so we are close to the tipping point. They are not

24

there yet but we are seeing in athletic directors some serious positive movement.

Mr. WHITFIELD. How many Division I schools are there?

Mr. BRAND. There are 119 I–A schools.

Mr. WHITFIELD. And of those 119, how many African-Americans

would be the athletic directors?

Mr. BRAND. I think it is around 13. I am not 100 percent sure

of that number but I think it is—more importantly, it has increased and importantly too they are at some of the very best

schools.

Mr. WHITFIELD. Now, you obviously have a lot of contact with

university presidents and university athletic directors. Is this an

issue that they seem to be talking a lot about or is it just sort of

something that comes up periodically or——

Mr. BRAND. I think there is general recognition and concern but

not enough debate and discussion.

Mr. WHITFIELD. Right. How many employees do you all have at

the NCAA?

Mr. BRAND. Now, remember, there is great confusion about who

the NCAA is.

Mr. WHITFIELD. OK.

Mr. BRAND. The national office has about 350 employees. They

are all staff members, myself included. I have no votes on any of

these issues. We service the larger population. That larger population consists of over 1,000 schools and universities and the hiring

decisions are being made on the campuses. The NCAA national office has no authority to recommend or to make any hires.

Mr. WHITFIELD. OK. So the 300 or so at the headquarters, you

all are simply the administrators of the rules and regulations and

provide guidelines?

Mr. BRAND. Yes, sir. That doesn’t stop me from speaking out

though.

Mr. WHITFIELD. And at the NCAA headquarters, what percent

would be African-American employees, would you say?

Mr. BRAND. I will ask my colleague but I think it is over a quarter. Yes, about a quarter, including leadership positions, I should

say.

Mr. WHITFIELD. And how long have you been the head of the

NCAA?

Mr. BRAND. Four years, sir.

Mr. WHITFIELD. So have you enjoyed the experience?

Mr. BRAND. Yes, I have.

Mr. WHITFIELD. I am not going to get into the University of Illinois Ilini issue but—OK, Mr. Rush. I yield back the balance of my

time.

Mr. RUSH. We recognize the ranking member for an additional

question.

Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, you were asking Dr. Brand a couple

things which I thought were pertinent, and I would like to find out,

what is your feeling on the influence that the alumni has in the

selection of the football coaches, because we have talked about the

athletic director, the president, and you indicated the president

probably has no knowledge of who to hire; he relegates this to the

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athletic director. But it wasn’t clear to me in your conversation

your feelings about the alumni department.

Mr. BRAND. That is a very important question, I think. I think

on some campuses, and it is variable by campus because there are

different processes on each campus. It is variable by campus. On

some campuses, they have a great deal of influence. On most campuses, the large majority, they have modest or little influence. So

you really—I read an article not long ago, an op-ed in the New

York Times, that said it was the alumni group or the booster

groups that were the problematic groups, and that is conceivable.

It would be true on some campuses but I would think it would be

a small proportion of the campuses, so we have to be careful not

to exaggerate their role in the decision-making.

Mr. STEARNS. I just wanted to ask Reverend Jackson the same

question I asked Dr. Brand, he was talking about the athletic directors and the president and the alumni and trying to understand

this transparency, and I was asking him what the influence of the

alumni was, and you perhaps may have an opinion of the alumni’s

participation and their decision-making process in this whole process.

Mr. JACKSON. Well, they are the ones that pay the coaches the

exorbitant salaries, oftentimes outside and beyond what the presidents make.

Mr. STEARNS. Yeah, they make a lot more than the president.

Mr. JACKSON. Well, they do, and they are the ones that offer the

coach the radio and the TV commercial deal. They bring to the

table lots of money to influence the decisions and all you can do

is to, A, recognize that that big money factor is a huge factor.

Mr. STEARNS. Is it critical, do you think? Would you say it is critical in the decision process?

Mr. JACKSON. It may be the biggest factor because you are not

hiring a coach to be a physical education teacher. You are not hiring him to be a professor. You are hiring him to coach the ball

team and that is its own profession.

Mr. STEARNS. Dr. Brand, Reverend Jackson says he thinks it is

critical, perhaps the reason that a lot of these coaches selected.

Would you agree with that?

Mr. BRAND. On this particular issue, in my own experience I

would not say that that is the case. However, on some campuses,

often very high-profile coaching positions, it is critical but on a

large majority of campuses in my experience and talking to many

presidents, it is a factor but not the critical factor.

Mr. JACKSON. Dr. Brand is different. You must understand. This

guy got rid of Bobby Knight so he is different. He is not like other

people.

Mr. RUSH. With that note, we are going to conclude this first

panel. I want to really thank our witnesses for their extraordinary

testimony and we certainly will commit to continue to look into this

area and provide what we hope will be some remedies for this situation that currently exists. Thank you very much.

We will call our next panel. I want to welcome, and this committee wants to welcome this panel of expert individuals who have

shared so much of their lives that they experienced with America.

I want to first of all, from my left and your right, I want to welVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00028 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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come specifically Dr. Fitzgerald Hill, who is the president of Arkansas Baptist College. Dr. Hill is a former head coach of the football

team there at San Jose State. Dr. Hill was an assistant head coach

at the University of Arkansas football team. He has done extensive

academic work on this particular subject matter.

Next, Dr. Floyd Keith is the executive director of the Black

Coaches Association. Mr. Keith can describe the difficulties and

barriers African-American coaches face when trying to move up the

coaching ranks and obtain the top head coaching positions of college sports teams.

Our next witness is Dr. Richard Lapchick, who is the chair of the

DeVos Sports Management Program and director of the Institute

for Ethics and Diversity in Sports at the University of Central Florida. Dr. Lapchick has done extensive work as an academician and

as an advocate for diversity in college sports and will present a

macro perspective including the results of his annual ‘‘race and

gender report cards for college sports.’’

Our next witness has been identified and talked about earlier by

the earlier witnesses. He is none other than the one and only Dr.

Nolan Richardson, who is the former head coach at the University

of Arkansas in basketball. Coach Richardson was the head coach

of the Arkansas Razorbacks when they won the national championship in college sports at the Division I level, and despite his enormous success as was indicated earlier, he took his team to the

Final Four three times and he won the National Coach of the Year

honors in 1994. The University of Arkansas fired him in 2002, and

we would like to hear his testimony regarding that.

Finally, Tim Weiser, who is the director of department of athletics at the Kansas State University. Mr. Weiser is also the incoming

president of Division I–A Athletic Directors Association. Mr. Weiser

recently hired Ron Prince as head coach of the Kansas State University football team, making Mr. Prince one of the only seven African-American head coaches in Division I–A college football. We

welcome him and his testimony also.

We will begin with opening statements for 5 minutes from our

witnesses, and we will start with Dr. Hill. Dr. Hill, would you

please give us your opening statement for 5 minutes?

STATEMENT OF FITZGERALD HILL PRESIDENT, ARKANSAS

BAPTIST COLLEGE

Mr. HILL. Thank you, Chairman Rush, and Ranking Member

Stearns and other distinguished members of the subcommittee, and

I appreciate the opportunity to share my personal experiences with

you today. You have heard the stats and I am not going to elaborate on that. But this is very personal to me because I was in this

profession for 20 years and this is something that has weighed

heavily on my heart.

I think if we go back and look, and I am going to share a little

story as head football coach at San Jose State, we were coming off

a very positive 2 years. Our third year, we had some problems and

didn’t win as many games as thought, but as we stood at the boosters meeting which Mr. Stearns had referenced to what the importance of the boosters that get involved in the hiring process, I recently hired a new white defensive coordinator after replacing a

27

black defensive coordinator. So after a few glasses of wine, a booster came over to me and said Coach Hill, a couple of boosters and

I, we have been talking, we have been thinking and we think that

you are going to turn the program around now. He said we just

had a discussion a few weeks ago and we think one reason that you

were not more successful is because you had too many AfricanAmerican assistants on your staff. I said oh, really. I said, well, it

is interesting that you would say that. I said have you researched

the success of the program over the last 3 years versus the success

of the program 2 years previously of the two previous head football

coaches, who happened to be white. I said if you know Coach John

Ralston, who is a Hall of Fame coach, served as head coach at San

Jose State for 3 years, who is now in the Hall of Fame, and then

he named his own successor, David Baldwin basically, and I said

did you check their winning percentages, and he said no, I haven’t

done that. I said if you go back and look at that real closely, you

will see that my winning percentage is better than their winning

percentage after 3 years.

So with that being said, I want to ask you this question: after

those first 3 years of those individuals, did you go back and tell

Coach Ralston and Coach Baldwin that they would have won more

games had they had more white coaches. And the booster situation

has a lot to do with what we are dealing with today, and I think

in my opening testimony I would like to say how the story of the

effects of race is in the numbers and the history of the hires. I

mean, you don’t have to say anything, just look at the statistics.

Race continues to influence the decision-making process for head

coaches and coordinators positions. To explain the effects, consider

this. What if Vince Lombardi and Bear Bryant were born with onetenth of African-American blood in their veins? Where would their

coaching careers have taken them? The same holds true for Bud

Wilkinson, Woody Hayes, Frank Broyles and Darrell Roll.

In the five Bowl Champion Series (BCS) games following the

2006 season, the 10 head coaches were all white. How long will it

be before two African-American coaches play each other in the national champion game? We don’t know. At the conclusion of the

2006 season, there were 23 vacancies. One African-American was

hired and he wasn’t their first choice. Since 1992, there have been

437 head coaching vacancies at Division I level. African-American

coaches have been selected a total of 26 times with 12 hirings occurring after the 1996 season. With those numbers, there are those

who claim that equal opportunity is available to all regardless of

color, but if they analyze the data, they would be amazed that more

African-Americans have served our president as a Secretary of

State than have worked as head football coach in the Southeastern

Conference. I am so thankful that General Powell and Secretary

Rice had a goal of emulating Henry Kissinger instead of Bear Bryant.

The unconscious employment barriers of these problems are evident when you listen to Roy Kramer, who served as commissioner

of SEC for 12 years, and in 1997 Roy Kramer told the Washington

Post that the SEC schools were hiring equally across the board.

Well, if Coach Kramer and others like him looked at the situation

realistically, they would realize that their definition for equitable

28

access in the coaching profession was at least grossly distorted and

at most is a factual lie. The NFL has made tremendous progress

with the Rooney Rule but for the NCAA to merely match the NFL’s

progress in this area, college football would have to hire 21 more

African-American head coaches tomorrow. That is hard to imagine

when considering that there is fewer African-American head coaches than there were 10 years ago, which concludes that racial equality is not progressing forward, it is actually going backwards. In

football terms, that is called a fumble. Thanks to Jimmy ‘‘the

Greek’’ Snyder, which really brings these comments to light with

his comment back in 1988 and he said, ‘‘If all African-American

coaches take over all the coaching jobs like everybody wants them

to, there is not going to be anything left for white coaches.’’ This

is 2007. That statement was made in 1988. We have to tackle the

barriers so that black coaches can coach. They want what everybody else wants, an opportunity to do that. I am fortunate that I

had the opportunity to do that and I hope that my peers will get

that chance to do the same. Thank you so very much for allowing

the testimony.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hill appears at the conclusion of

the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Mr. Keith.

STATEMENT OF FLOYD KEITH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLACK

COACHES ASSOCIATION

Mr. KEITH. On behalf of the Black Coaches Association, I would

like to thank the Committee on Energy and Commerce and particularly the Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection and you, Chairman Rush, for initiating this hearing regarding the lack of diversity in leadership positions within the NCAA

collegiate sports. I am proud to represent more than 4,000 members of our association who entrust me with this opportunity to dialog on this issue. The Black Coaches Association is a 501(c)(3) taxexempt, nonprofit organization created for the primary purpose of

fostering the growth and development of ethnic minorities at all

levels of sports, both nationally and internationally. Our mission is

threefold: to address significant issues pertaining to the participation and employment of minorities in sport, to assist minorities aspiring to have a career in athletics through educational and professional development programs and scholarships and to provide

youth and diverse communities the opportunity to interact positively with the BCA.

This statement specifically relates to the dire and disparate representation of African-Americans in roles of leadership within the

NCAA. Since 1987, and especially beginning with the fall of 2002,

the BCA has been hands-on in the effort to implement positive and

proactive initiatives to address this concern. Dating back to 2003,

on four previous occasions, I have personally voiced this concern on

behalf of the association to members of Congress at the Congressional Black Caucus in 2004, the annual legislative conference in

2004, and in 2005, the National Black Caucus of State Legislators.

I applaud this committee.

Dr. Lapchick will share with you the stark reality of statistical

facts regarding participation and employment opportunities. One

29

statistic I will definitely share with you which I am sure will get

your attention is this. Recognize today that a candidate of color has

a far great chance to become a general in the United States Army

at 83 percent with 26 percent participation than becoming president at any NCAA Division I–A institution, which is 3.4, or being

named head football coach, which is 3.6, or women’s basketball

coach, which is 7.7, for any NCAA Division I program as well as

an associate athletic director at 8 percent for any institution or faculty rep at 7.6 or being named commissioner of any NCAA athletic

conference, which is zero percent. You have a better chance of

being Colin Powell.

The game plan for the BCA has been addressed and centered on

a goal-oriented approach which has been framed on knowledge, accountability and political influence and financial influence. The

knowledge component has been addressed in three ways: first, by

our continuing efforts to expose and report accurate statistical

analysis of the issue. Second, these statistical data are then complemented by providing intercollegiate decision-makers with lists of

capable candidates for head coaching and athletic director openings. We also understand the necessary to both acknowledge and

increase the numbers of African-Americans in the candidate pool.

For the past 5 years the BCA has made the diligent effort to provide capable candidate lists for Division I head coaching openings

in football to collegiate athletic directors and presidents for every

opening. We have asked that this information be received with an

open mind with the insistence that an honest consideration of applicants of color and gender would be given. It will be difficult, if

not impossible, for change to occur if decision-makers do not expand their knowledge and awareness of potential candidates beyond their often utilized comfort zone.

The third piece is educating the general public regarding the unfounded myths of people of color and the unspoken concerns of the

negative effect upon financial giving and corporate sponsorships

that is also a function of knowledge. The BCA believes accountability is fundamental in any formula dedicated to altering social injustice. Throughout the history of our United States, the resolution of

civil rights issues has always required accountability. The role of

the BCA’s hiring report card, which I will discuss shortly, has

served as our instrument of accountability to date. Just as title IX

opened doors for NCAA women’s athletics, we believe title VII may

be necessary to drive this issue to the forefront and fulfill the accountability requirement. History has proven that in order for any

significant progress to be made in eradicating a social injustice,

legal action has been the catalyst for change.

The final category is that political and financial influence reveal

a harsh reality which is present in all high-profile searches. Who

knows who is much more important that who you know. It would

be naive for us to think we can disregard the power of influence

of these components.

Increasing the candidate pool, I will address that briefly. Since

the fall of 2002, we have attempted to increase the pool of candidates with the awareness of capable candidates lists for the positions of head football coach and basketball coach as well as athletic

director. This resource was initiated as a collaborative effort beVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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tween the BCA and the NCAA’s minority opportunities interest

committee coupled with recommendations from high-profile coaches

and administrators in collegiate athletics. Myles Brand has supported this process. Our lists are distributed in two ways. As a subscriber to the BCA’s online job line, a candidate list may be viewed

by representatives of the institution seeking applicants. Second, for

the Division I head coaching openings in Division I football and

women’s basketball and for athletic director searches, both a general and specific candidate list is provided directly to the institutional athletic director and president via a hiring report card package which we sent.

Great strides have been made in professional development. The

aforementioned coaches academies that have been developed by the

NCAA at Myles Brand’s blessing and with the support of the BCA

and the American Football Coaches Association and the NFL are

going a long way to provide new candidates for intercollegiate

coaching positions but this may not be enough.

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Keith, would you bring your conclusion, please?

Mr. KEITH. We have been working also to confront myths, improving the search process with our aforementioned hiring report

card, which is already in the record, sir, and title VII implications

we feel can be utilized to advance this issue. Thank you very much.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Keith appears at the conclusion

of the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. We will make sure that the remainder of your testimony is included into the record. Dr. Lapchick, welcome.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD LAPCHICK, CHAIR, DEVOS SPORTS

MANAGEMENT PROGRAM

Mr. LAPCHICK. Thank you very much, Congressman, and we really appreciate the fact that you have convened these hearings. I was

one of the people who testified when Congressman Towns and Senator Bradley put forth the Student-Athlete Right to Know Act

many years ago and that has had a tremendous effect and I think

today’s hearing have that same potential effect on an equally critical issue.

I think we have a rare opportunity, everybody has alluded to it,

because of the Super Bowl and the two coaches who were in that

game and one African-American coach now a Super Bowl champion. A lot of people were surprised that an event actually taking

place in Black History Month made history in Black History

Month. Today is the last day of Black History Month and the question is, will we remember what happened and the facts? Most people were surprised when I mentioned that in the history of the National Basketball Association, only one time have two AfricanAmerican head coaches faced each other in an NBA championship.

There has never been two in a World Series. There has never been

two in the final men’s championship or women’s championship

game in college basketball. There has never been two AfricanAmerican head coaches in any BCS bowl game. This was a rare,

rare event as has been noted. And the question is, do we remember

the names of those coaches who broke those barriers? Probably not.

Do we remember the dates when they broke the barriers? In fact,

in the NBA it was Al Attles and K.C. Jones in the 1974 NBA chamVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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pionship. Prior to that time, only five African-Americans had ever

been head coaches in the NBA. Since then, 46 African-Americans

have been head coaches. When Nolan Richardson, John Thompson

and Tubby Smith led their teams to NCAA championships, prior to

John Thompson’s victory with Georgetown, there has been only a

handful of African-American head coaches in the college ranks.

Now with 25 percent of Division I basketball coaches being African-American, it is a completely different landscape. In the NBA

and the NFL, we barely even notice when an African-American is

hired or fired because the doors seem so wide open. Obviously that

is not the case in college football, and while we have spent a lot

of time on college football, I also want to paint a picture of all of

college sport because the restrictions are simply not limited in the

area of football. We have in terms of student-athletes plenty of opportunity. And these are Divisions I, II and III, respectively, the

statistics I will give you. Twenty-one percent of Division I studentathletes are African-American, 18 percent in Division II, 7 percent

in Division III. We have more than a majority in college basketball

and nearly a majority in college football. Nearly 44 percent of

women playing college basketball are now African-American, an

all-time record.

When we look at the positions of who is running those sports, the

picture changes, and that has been alluded to in cases so far. Every

one of the Division I–A conference commissioners are white men.

Every one of the Division I conference commissioners excluding the

historically black colleges and universities are white. In the coaching ranks, we talked about basketball and plenty of opportunity.

We have talked about football. College baseball, 4.1 percent of the

head coaches in college baseball are people of color. Across three

divisions, these are the percentage of whites holding those head

coaching positions. Division I—this is all sports—90.6 percent; Division II, 89.5 percent; Division III, 93.4 percent. The percentage

who hold those head coaching positions in college football are actually higher than they are for African-American head coaches in Divisions II and III. In fact, for me the most startling statistic, Congressmen, is that there are more women coaching men’s teams in

Division III than there are African-Americans coaching men’s

teams in Division III. There is a virtual lockout of opportunity for

African-Americans in those coaching ranks. When we come to the

college president ranks, you have heard already that 94 percent are

African-American. When we look at the athletic director ranks, 95

percent, 94 percent, 93.2 percent at the three different levels are

all held by white men. There is an impression that there are lots

of people in the pipeline in the associate athletic director positions

ready to step up. The percentages of whites controlling those positions are 91 percent, 89 percent and 92 percent in the three respective divisions.

It was alluded to by Congressman Terry before that the majority

of assistant coaches at the coaching ranks in college football are African-American. The reality is that that is simply not true. There

is not one division that has less than 80 percent of the assistant

coaches who are white and the opportunities just are not there

across the board at all positions and I think what it calls for is

tools that we simply don’t have in college sport because whatever

32

we have isn’t working, and Dr. Brand has been a tremendous leader on this issue. He has done great things in the NCAA including

who has brought into the NCAA but he hasn’t had the ability as

the NCAA president with the bully pulpit to really make significant changes, and I think that is quite obvious to me, and I know

that there is resistance to it at the level of the NCAA, that the Rooney Rule has made a tremendous difference. We went from two to

seven African-American head coaches in the National Football

League. Most people forget that 2 years prior to the Rooney Rule,

Bud Selig implemented a similar rule without a name and Major

League Baseball went from three to nine managers of color in

Major League Baseball and yet you heard Dr. Hill said that we actually have less head football coaches in college sport now than we

had 10 years ago when we had eight Division I–A head coaches.

The situation is worse now than it was 10 years ago. I think the

Rooney Rule, I think title VII lawsuits, I think the whole series of

some of the things that the NCAA is already doing will be helpful

but I think the keys are getting more tools and having these congressional hearings are certainly a start in the right direction, and

I thank you for listening.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Lapchick appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. Coach Richardson.

STATEMENT OF NOLAN RICHARDSON, FORMER COACH,

UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS BASKETBALL TEAM

Mr. RICHARDSON. I want to thank the committee and Congressman Rush for inviting me up.

On this day 5 years ago, the last day of Black History Month,

I was fired on this day, so this is an anniversary date for me. I

thought about it when I was sitting in the motel room. On this day

5 years ago I was sitting listening to two white males determine

my fate in coaching athletics and basketball and being an assistant

athletic director. It always has been my burden to prove that I suffered at the hands of discrimination while working at the University of Arkansas as the men’s basketball coach. I believe that my

cries for equality fell on deaf ears. My immediate superiors did not

care about what I had to say. Of course, since they were the offenders, especially one, this did not stop me from continuing to point

out the overt discrimination

I had to endure during those 17 years. I had not received the

greatest contract. The numerous bonuses that other coaches, which

were basically white, particularly football, would make—or have

better contracts that I had when I had been working extremely

hard having a building built at the University of Arkansas that

seated almost 20,000 fans. Tickets all sold out, from 5,000 to 8,000

on the waiting list for tickets to Razorbacks basketball games. And

yet, when it was contract time, my contract seemed to the hardest

to fill or to complete year in and year out. I had to work extremely

hard with an agent to try to bring that to a halt. I also in 1990

became assistant athletic director until 2000. That is 10 years. And

in those 10 years, I never once was invited to a meeting and I was

one of the assistant athletic directors. Not only was I an assistant

athletic director at the University of Arkansas, I was also an asVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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sistant athletic director at Tulsa University where the young man

that was in the Super Bowl was one of our players and football

coach, Lovie Smith. I knew him back then. I was really proud of

him. Prior to that, I was an athletic director at the junior college.

So my life was to become a basketball coach and work my way up

and to become an athletic director and yet I was stonewalled at the

point of being a token for the University of Arkansas because of affirmative action. When asked the question how many AfricanAmericans are on your staff, he could easily say yes, we got one

and his name is Nolan Richardson, which I had no authority on

anything. I didn’t even once have a chance to be involved with decision-making policies.

After being fired, I wasn’t even allowed to coach my team the

last game of the season. I was approached by the athletic director

and chancellor to bow out and say to the fans and to the people

of Arkansas that I was tired and I wanted to spend more time with

my family and they were to buy me out and give me a little job

and pull the fans back together. They fired me because they say

I made a statement that affected the fans but yet I am offered a

job to keep my mouth shut and not be allowed to coach my team

if I agreed not to do it, and of course, I did not agree. So there was

no real equality in the terms of things that happened to Nolan

Richardson on that campus as opposed to my white counterpart

coaches. I made a statement and it was held against me and it

didn’t matter.

The statement that I made is that my great-great-grandparents

came over on the boat; I did not. I expect to be treated differently

than they were. I did make another statement that there was no

one in that room that looked like me. Everyone, the media, everyone in Arkansas was lily-white so they had their own reasons for

making me look like the bad guy. So when I sit and listen to the

people that made these statements, there is no question, no question that in all the major universities, that the alums or boosters

are in control. The only State that I really give creed to is Oklahoma, and the reason is because when I was at Tulsa University,

I happened to be the only African-American in that area but by the

time my team did what they did, Oklahoma had hired a football

coach, Oklahoma University hired a basketball coach, Oklahoma

State hired a African-American coach that we talked about, Bob

Simmons, and they also hired a black coach in basketball. That is

the only State that I know of that have shared their football and

basketball with African-Americans. Thank you.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Richardson appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Weiser.

STATEMENT OF TIM WEISER, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF

ATHLETICS, KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY

Mr. WEISER. Chairman Rush, distinguished members of the subcommittee, good morning and thank you for allowing me this opportunity to address the issue of diversity in the positions of collegiate athletic directors and head coaches in Division I–A of NCAA.

My name is Tim Weiser. I was asked to speak with you today

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34

ics, Kansas State University of the Big 12, is one of only six Division I–A athletics programs to have an African-American in position as head football coach. Ron Prince was hired in December

2005 in place of the retiring Bill Snyder, who in his 17-year career

was credited with what has been called the greatest turnaround in

college football history. Coach Prince has quickly made his own

mark producing a winning record and leading the Wildcats to the

Texas Bowl on his first season.

I believe I also can offer insight to this subcommittee on the topic

before us because of my history of diversity in hiring head coaches

as well as my position representing the Division I–A Athletic Directors Association as the incoming president. This background allows

me within my personal experiences to reflect upon current and historical practices in our profession that are relevant to today’s discussion.

As I begin my 25th year in collegiate athletic administration, the

past 20 as director of athletics at four different institutions, I have

been blessed to be part of my achievements and milestones. In my

first experience at Wichita State, I had the opportunity to work

with Willie Jeffries, the first African-American head football coach

in Division I–A history. I am certain that as a 24-year-old breaking

into the athletic business that those experiences helped shape my

understanding of the importance of diversity within an athletics department. Once I became an athletics director and was in a position of authority for hiring head coaches and staff, I selected the

first ever African-American head basketball coach at both Eastern

Michigan University and Colorado State University. Ron Prince is

the first African-American head football coach in Kansas State history.

I believe it important for this subcommittee to understand that

in each of these appointments, the decision I made was based on

the belief of who I thought was the best fit for the particular institution and most qualified candidate for the job. This has always

been the ultimate factor in my decision-making process for hiring

coaches.

As the incoming president of Division I Athletic Directors Association, I am encouraged by what I see as an evolution within my

profession. The business is changing rapidly. There may have been

a time when an athletics director was a former coach or a favored

son of the institution but as the enterprises have grown and the

financial implications have become so significant, the job now requires skill sets and new ways of thinking involving leadership,

counseling, personnel management, fundraising and much more.

I believe the ultimate goal of an athletics director is to provide

within the means of the particular institution the necessary support and resources to give each student-athlete his or her best opportunity to graduate with a meaningful degree and be adequately

prepared for a successful life to become leaders and contributors to

our Nation.

Our profession is looked up now in large part like any other multimillion dollar business enterprise requiring progressive and inclusive processes that allow for growth in many ways that did not

exist in years past. A constant in the role of athletics director, not

unlike that of any CEO of a corporation, is the importance of makVerDate 11-SEP-98 10:19 Jun 04, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Q:\DOCS\110-7 SCOM1 PsN: SCOM1
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ing good decisions in the hiring of head coaches. We are defined in

large part by the choices we made for our head football and basketball coaches because we are all seeking to discover that man or

woman who can succeed in building a championship program.

You have asked me here today because you are looking for answers as to why there aren’t more than six African-American head

football coaches at the highest level of the NCAA. Clearly, the

growth in this area has been slow and I can only testify to my own

actions. However, as I look at the sport of men’s basketball and the

growth in the number of African-American head coaches in place,

I am encouraged that similar progress can be achieved but steps

and incentives for progressive leadership need to be put in place for

us to move forward. It will take the guidance of Myles Brand, all

university presidents and athletics directors and even head football

coaches themselves to create an environment that expands the pool

of qualified candidates and provide more networking opportunities

to allow those individuals to become more widely known for consideration as has become the practice in the NCAA and the NFL. In

fact, a better dialog between the college hierarchy and that of the

NFL, which is tapping into the talent pool of minority collegiate

coaches to allow for discussion of reciprocal arrangements regarding the interviewing and hiring processes currently in place could

prove beneficial.

Additionally, legislation to provide financial incentives for those

NCAA member institutions to employment minority head coaches

and athletic directors could be drafted by adoption by our organization. This diversity incentive would reward, not punish, those who

seek to improve and grow the current pool of minority head coaches

and athletics directors.

I offer these as just a couple of examples of ways that we at the

collegiate level can consider expanding opportunities for minority

candidates as we contemplate a new direction for collegiate athletics.

Thank you for the opportunity to offer my thoughts and share

my experiences. I look forward to answering your questions.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Weiser appears at the conclusion

of the hearing.]

Mr. RUSH. I want to thank the witnesses. I will start off with

some questions. Coach Richardson, I want to return to an area that

you described. First of all, let me just ask you this question. I am

concerned. Do you consider yourself blackballed in college athletics

now because you are unemployed now as a college coach?

Mr. RICHARDSON. I have been told by the person that is an agent

of mine that there is no question what is happening, that the fear

of being outspoken and the truth is, people don’t want to hear that,

and from that standpoint, I may have some baggage that I may be

carrying. So from that standpoint, yes.

Mr. RUSH. So not only do you have to be effective and efficient

and good at being an expert at being a college coach, you also have

to be quiet? Is that what you are saying?

Mr. RICHARDSON. Absolutely. I mean, you have to stay in your

place, as they call it. The good old boy system is well and alive and

I think it is on a lot of campuses and probably on most campuses.

The opportunities for white coaches are always going to be there

36

until there is—there was a question—my train of thought was,

there was a question that I wanted to address about why are the

black kids are going and playing basketball because of course there

are more black coaches, and I think it all happened with the John

Thompson when he had Patrick Ewing making the statement that

I am going to play for a black coach. Now, what would happen if

the football players who are key players say I am going to play

where there is a head black football coach? I think something

would start to change. Something has to change and that is what

it is all about. So when you talk about basketball, that is what had

happened, and as the blacks begin to get more jobs, kids beginning

to get an opportunity to go to those schools, let us face it, it is

about money. It is a big business in Division I basketball and football. It is a corporation. It is about money. It is as simple as that.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Mr. Keith and Dr. Lapchick, your focus

has been on and your efforts have been on a lot of public exposure

and you might even—in your testimony you even used the word

‘‘embarrassment’’ as a means of galvanizing individual schools toward hiring more minorities. That might be a good approach, it

might be effective, but my question is, is embarrassment powerful

enough? What if some of the more entrenched interests who are

there to promote for the status quo—is embarrassment enough to

break through that entrenchment? Suppose they don’t respond to

public pressure or to public embarrassment? What else is there

that we could—what other remedial efforts can we take?

Mr. LAPCHICK. Well, I think it is pretty clear that embarrassment hasn’t been effective enough based on the numbers that we

talked about. I think that one of the things that we are discussing

are title VII lawsuits. The cause of women in college sport was advanced enormously when women started bringing lawsuits against

schools under title IX and won, and that hasn’t happened yet on

the issue of race and we think that that might be a powerful tool

in the years ahead, and Floyd Keith and the Black Coaches Association are strongly considering that at this particular moment.

Mr. KEITH. I think exactly what Richard is saying. We felt when

we initiated the hiring report card that maybe the pressure of public opinion would be enough to bring this issue to the forefront. We

are going to continue to do the hiring report card regardless of

whether the numbers increase or not because we think it has a role

now in the consciousness of sport, particularly on the collegiate

level. We are going to do that with athletics director searches. We

are also going to do it with women’s basketball. But at the truth

and the heart of the matter is, the numbers aren’t at a level where

they should be and it hasn’t gotten to the point where we don’t talk

about it anymore. It is title VII which we think may have teeth.

I don’t—you have got to have something that has some bite, and

I am just not sure—because we will have a handful, like this year

we are going to have almost 36 schools we are going to evaluate

in football, and I know that for a fact our grades will come out in

September. There is going to be five schools that just completely

disregard the report card and they are just going to take the F and

so they are basically saying well, we will take the F and then so

be it. Well, that is not good enough. We have got to hold them further to accountability because some of them like in the old days say

37

well, you can’t eat here, so what, who is going to do anything about

it, you not eating here in the 1960’s. So we go back to the same

issue. I think it is a good tool but I don’t think it has got enough.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Mr. Stearns.

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you. I think, Dr. Hill, you had indicated

that the statistics show that we are actually in the last 10 year we

are going backwards in Division II and III and actually Division I

schools for African-American coaches. Isn’t that what you said?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir, Division I, we have fewer coaches today than

we had 10 years ago.

Mr. STEARNS. OK. And what about Division II and III? Maybe

Mr. Lapchick can tell me that. In Division II and III, what Dr. Hill

referred to for Division I, is that true for Division II and Division

III for male African-Americans, the numbers of coaches going

down?

Mr. LAPCHICK. There has been virtually no opportunity historically in Division III whatsoever, so it has been pretty flat there. I

think there is a single African-American head coach in Division III

and that is a high number. In Division II, it has been four, five,

six, over the years, kind of steady and constant, but the reality is

that if you look at all the statistics, the opportunities are worse in

Division III, a little bit better in Division II and a little bit better

in Division I but they are not good in any of them.

Mr. STEARNS. Is that because there are less choices maybe, or

not? How would you attribute that fact that Division III is the

worst?

Mr. LAPCHICK. I think people aren’t scrutinizing it as much as

they are Division I.

Mr. STEARNS. It is easier for a coach, isn’t it, to be successful in

Division III than in Division I? It is not as competitive, so——

Mr. LAPCHICK. Well, those coaches would tell you it is pretty

competitive at that level but the opportunities—I mean, I think the

reality is that whatever embarrassment effect there has been at Division I with the black coaches hiring report card and the racial

and gender report card has never been applied to Division II and

Division III. We haven’t really looked at it so——

Mr. STEARNS. OK. So we haven’t had the spotlight on it?

Mr. LAPCHICK. Right.

Mr. STEARNS. Dr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. I was going to say, if you take, for example—and I said

this for a while is that many of your candidates should come from

the lower division colleges as a training ground and you take example I–AA, you say, well, you haven’t had Division I experience.

Well, take Jim Tressel. He came from Youngstown State. He came

from I–AA. Two years later, he went to the national championship.

So that should be tremendous training grounds, which Division III

should come from the high school ranks. But the problem is, the

recruiting if you go and examine the demographics, you will see the

same thing taking place in high school. You have an urban community which I have referenced book that looks like HBCUs. Then you

go to the suburbs. You go to the suburbs, you still have one African-American coach on that staff. You go to urban America, then

you have predominantly black coaches.

38

Mr. STEARNS. Well, now, Mr. Lapchick, I want to move towards

the women, African-American women. We haven’t talked about

them at all. Dr. Hill has mentioned the statistics in terms of Division I, II and III. What do the statistics look like for women? Are

they even lower than males?

Mr. LAPCHICK. As your question implies, it is a double layer of

separation for African-American women, and one of the new initiatives of the Black Coaches Association this year is to do a report

card on women’s college basketball where nearly 44 percent of the

student-athletes are African-American but the number of AfricanAmerican women head coaches has actually been decreasing over

the last 4 years and is now down to about 71⁄2 percent.

Mr. STEARNS. And is this true in all sports or just one particular

sport?

Mr. LAPCHICK. There are very few African-American women head

coaches in any sports in any of the divisions. They are smaller

numbers than African-American men even.

Mr. STEARNS. Our concern obviously is that this statistic is getting worse as time goes on in Division I, II and III as on the whole

and it is also even worse for women. So that is really another important thing, Mr. Chairman, that we should be concerned about

is not just the men but the women and particularly in some sports

you have indicated, Dr. Lapchick, that most of the participants are

African-Americans and yet there are no African-American coaches.

Is that what you are saying?

Mr. LAPCHICK. There are a few African-American coaches but

very few, and a significant percentage of African-American studentathletes. I think on the gender issue, it is also worth pointing out

that 35 years after title IX, more men coach women’s teams in college sport today than women coach women’s teams.

Mr. STEARNS. Now, why do you think that is?

Mr. LAPCHICK. I think that men in some cases have gone for the

opportunities to help them to move up to get a men’s job. In the

case of women’s basketball, it has become pretty big time now so

it is a prominent position now so the men are going for it and athletics directors who are overwhelmingly men are picking a lot of

male coaches.

Mr. STEARNS. So what you are saying is, a male coach is competing with a female coach and sometimes a male coach is beating out

the white as well as the African-American and that is because of

the selection process?

Mr. RICHARDSON. Yes. There are way more white male coaches

in the female game than there are black females coaching as head

coaches, way more. We did—I worked with the BCA 6 years ago

on the SAT and ACT testing and found that gender with the

women—our black women do not coach volleyball and they were

doing more things for gender equity but it wasn’t helping the black

female because our girls are track, probably basketball. So how are

you helping them? You are making more jobs availability for men,

white, and female, white women. It is just as simple as that.

Mr. STEARNS. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think the point I am trying

to make is that we have concentrated this morning on the male African-American but I think we should also be aware that the female African-American is also seeing the same kind of statistics in

39

the Division I, II and III and that it is disheartening to think that

they are even lower than the men and this has been getting worse

across the board. So with that, I will yield back the balance of my

time.

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. Mr. Ross.

Mr. ROSS. Let me begin with Dr. Hill, and I apologize for running in and out. I have got one markup in the Science Committee

and two different hearings in two different subcommittees of Energy and Commerce Committee all at the same time. No wonder

we have problems in America if this is how we run Congress, so

forgive me for moving around so much.

Dr. Hill, you did a dissertation on this and you have probably put

more thought into this than most in this room. Is this something

that—and I agree that clearly if you look at the numbers, the numbers don’t lie and there is clearly a discrepancy—not a discrepancy

but there is clearly a need, if you will, to have more African-Americans involved in leadership and coaching positions within the

NCAA. Do you do that through public awareness? And of course a

lot of press are here today. Do you do that through legislation? As

we conclude Black History Month and we look through the historical achievements and accomplishments that we have—if you look

at the time that we have endured in America and the progress that

we have made, clearly this is an example of how, as some would

say, while we have done a lot, there is still a lot that needs to be

done. How do we take it to the next level? Is it through social

awareness, PR campaign or through legislation?

Mr. HILL. I think maybe, Congressman Ross, a little bit of both

but I think if you look at the hiring situation, you will see the influence of boosters in the hiring process. College athletics, unlike

NFL where you have the owner making the decision, you have an

athletics director worried about maybe a construction worker who

didn’t even go to college but became a millionaire and has a lot of

money and has some influence, and if this happened in recruiting,

you can’t have boosters get involved in NCAA with the recruiting

mandates that are set up. And so what do you do? You make boosters aware of the recruiting process. I think we need to move forward in making boosters aware of what diversity looks like. By

doing that, we make hay in the fact that they can say ‘‘oh, I see’’.

Many boosters, when they think of what a head coach is supposed

to look like, they see a white, middle-aged male and so what you

have to do, you have to make a concerted effort to overcome that

subconscious mindset of what a head football coach looks like. And

so until we can get them to change the lenses of their camera and

say maybe a head coach may not look like me, and we referenced,

the success of basketball, success breeds change and when you

have John Thompson, Tubby Smith, Nolan Richardson and people

going to be successful, then you say we want to do that and recruiting can enhance that by having athletes decide hey, we want to go

make a difference. This is really still a civil rights issue.

If you look at the heart of what we are talking about today, this

is 2007. In 1994, Cedrick Dempsey, who was then executive president of NCAA, claimed that we need to redouble our efforts to ensure equity for all coaches. That is 1994. In 2007, February 28, we

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wards. Now, we can keep making public awareness if we like, we

can keep talking about it, and when you have the hurricane season

that takes place in December and January during the hiring, then

you don’t hear anything else about it. We are here today because

of two African-American coaches going to the Super Bowl. Thank

God for that. But what we have to do, we have to put something

in place. Title VII, title IX, something has to mandate that we

move forward to add corrective measures or a game plan that will

ensure equity for all coaches regardless of color, male or female.

Mr. ROSS. In my remaining seconds, Coach Richardson, I would

love to get your thoughts on that. By the way, I am a huge fans

of yours so I am glad to have you here today. Dr. Hill made it very

clear when you asked what can we do, it has got to become law.

I mean, we are not going anywhere until there is law made and

that is when progress begins. In 1994 I was here. John Thompson

and I were going to walk out of a basketball game. Here we are,

as he said, 2007 and we got six, seven football coaches. I mean,

that has got to be ridiculous in two matters. The first of it is, what

about the youngster that is playing football; when he looks on the

sideline he never sees anyone that looks like him. Why should he

pursue a career as a football coach? You have got to look at people,

and that is why I am so proud of the basketball moving because

now a young man that plays basketball who wants to be a coach

can say hey, Coach Richardson, Coach Thompson, Coach Tubby—

I mean, he can point at people that have made it. How can the football player point at people? It is just like the quarterback. I wanted

to be a quarterback in high school but I wasn’t smart enough. They

called the plays. What do you mean I wasn’t smart enough? I could

handle the ball like anybody else could. And now, it is not a question about a quarterback because the plays a lot of times are called

in. I mean, have you ever seen a football player that it is a kicker

that is African-American? I have seen one maybe or two. Why?

Have you ever seen an extra point kicker? Why? Until law is made

to change things, that is the only way we are going to progress.

That is how I see it. In my lifetime, that is the only way it is going

to go because then you take the boosters out of it. You have got

to take the boosters out of the equation because no matter what

you say, there is still cheating going on today on college campuses.

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Burgess, 5 minutes.

Mr. BURGESS. Thank you, Mr. Rush, and just like my colleague

from Arkansas, let me apologize for being in and out. There is always a lot that goes on in this town on a Wednesday and today

is no exception.

I guess my question was partly answered by Mr. Ross’s last line

of questioning is, where do we go from here as a legislative body?

We can certainly hold hearings all day long, and we do, and we can

hold hearings year in and year out, and we do, but is there a

point—and Coach, I guess you said until the law is made, progress

cannot be expected to occur. Progress is not going to occur on its

own. It will have to be encouraged. And I think I understood where

you said that that encouragement would have to come from the legislative process and I have not talked to the chairman about any

legislative that he has contemplated or has pending and I would

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man on that issue but let me just hear from Coach Richardson and

Dr. Hill what elements, what principles, what words need to be in

that legislative or what do the principles need to be around which

that legislation is crafted?

Mr. HILL. Around access, equitable access. That is all that anyone really wants, the desire to say I have a son, 6 years old, and

he was on the football field with me every day when I was practicing and he told me one day, Dad, I want to be a head football coach

too, and that hit me in my heart because I didn’t want him to have

to experience those type of things that he would go through. I want

him to have the same opportunities, have access, and what we

have to do in trying to get the access comes from various—we have

to change the mindset and that is why I think that education of

our boosters and everyone involved to realize that head football

coaches or women coaches may not look like you, and I think if you

look at the progress in women’s sports, particularly the NCAA, the

Final Four with the women, that didn’t just happen without some

legislation. You have Pat Summerlin today because we mandated

that the women’s jobs are equitable to the men’s jobs. That is why

if you look at why we have more men coaching and want to go

coach women’s ball, because the salaries by title IX dictate that we

have to make sure that we treat everyone fairly. That is the only

type of legislation I think that we want is that you treat everybody

fairly and that when you have 23 job openings this year, OK, and

here is what is in the heart of coaches because I speak as one. You

look at that and say man, I am not really a candidate not because

of my qualifications but because of the color of my skin. How are

you going to mandate that the color of your skin is taken out of

the equation? Well, when you still have people making the hiring

involved in doing that, it is difficult without mandating something

in there, and that is what the Rooney Rule actually does and it exposes the hiring committee to break stereotypes that they don’t

even think about because they say man, this guy is sharp. There

are a lot of sharp guys out there.

Mr. BURGESS. My follow-up is that do you think something crafted along the lines of the Rooney Rule or the unwritten Selig rule

should in fact be one of those principles that we embody in the legislation?

Mr. HILL. Well, according to—they said it is 76 percent of the

coaches. That is what Mr. Keith has been doing. What we have to

do is make sure that we are having some more involvement in the

process and a diverse pool of constituents that sit around the table

that looks like a representation of your student body. Let me give

you an example. If I move to Japan and I don’t speak Japanese but

if I was going to start a business in Japan, I would make sure that

my management team was representative of my laborers because

I don’t understand the culture. Maybe not. And so we could get

maximum effectiveness out of the workers, and when you look at

the hiring process today, it blows your mind because if you saw 23

openings and you felt like your resume was qualified, you have

gone to NFL academies, you have gone to all the things to do and

when you come there and say man, I know I am not going to get

a job. So what do black coaches do now? They jump to the NFL.

It is brain drain. We are losing our best talent out of collegiate

42

football because we are not promoting through access, give the

coaches access, and something has to be done because my brother

Keith has been working, Dr. Lapchick. The numbers have been up

there. In fact, I started this because of Dr. Lapchick in 1998 as a

graduate assistant during a library assignment. I read his article

in 1998. This is 2007 and his article still is being published and

we are still talking about the issue. So I think 25 years—the civil

rights laws were passed in 1964. It is 2007, and I think we need

to move forward in making sure that this great country that we

live in provides equal access for everyone.

Mr. BURGESS. Thank you. Coach Richardson.

Mr. RICHARDSON. I couldn’t add much more to what Dr. Hill has

just said. I just feel that in order to achieve anything, it is like the

two things that I don’t like and that is prostitution and slavery.

You have to make laws to stop it. And to have slavery to be

stopped, there had to be a law made or else it continues. I just believe that there has got to be a law made to change the field so

we can play on a level field a little bit better, and he brought out

some great points. Like he said, you have just got to get the people

together, get some thoughts, put some real clean, good thoughts to

the decision-making. There is no way it is going to change.

Mr. BURGESS. What about the issue of brain drain that Dr. Hill

brought up? Are we risking depopulating the smaller colleges of

qualified African-American minority mentors and coaches for those

kids if the same thing happens at the NCAA level that happened

at the professional level and everybody moves that one level up?

Mr. KEITH. Can I answer that question? There is a lot of young

talented people out there and they are going to filter through. You

are not going to rob anybody from anywhere. Everybody is trying

to advance. I mean, there is no law about trying to advance. I don’t

penalize any of the coaches that have been diligently working

through the process in collegiate football moving to the NFL simply

because they are paid more than most coaches that are working in

that system and the NCAA right now is losing their talent because

when you turn on the TV, my friend, you are seeing coordinators

of color in the NFL, you are seeing head coaches. When they started the season this year, seven head coaches in 32 opportunities.

Congressman Burgess, there were 36 opportunities to be a head

coach this year on the collegiate level and two African-Americans

were hired on the collegiate ranks. I recommended Mike Tomlin for

three head coaching jobs on the collegiate ranks. He is now the

head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He couldn’t get—he wasn’t

contacted for two of them. Now, you tell me what is wrong. That

is why we are losing them. You have got to wake up. We are losing

the people. There is young people out there with great talent. They

are going to fill in to all of those jobs. They want to coach.

Mr. BURGESS. Unfortunately, I missed Dr. Brand when he was

here. Could this not be done internally within the NCAA today

without waiting on us to make a legislation?

Mr. KEITH. They can’t mandate——

Mr. BURGESS. I have only been here a couple years but I do know

this place moves slowly.

Mr. KEITH. They can’t mandate—there is three levels of the

NCAA and I am not going to speak for Dr. Brand but I respect

43

him. There is the executive office in Indianapolis. The student-athletes are the NCAA as well. But individual institutions hire. They

hire the ADs, they hire the presidents. They make those decisions.

The NCAA itself, the executive office, cannot mandate to those

places who to hire. The process is really simple. When people ask

me, and I have to answer this question probably 300 times a year,

is why is the NFL ahead of the collegiate ranks in hiring. It is pretty simple. There is less people to deal with. And the other formula

is follow the money. There is nobody that understands that better

than you folks. Follow the money and you will find out the answers.

The general manager and the owner are the two people that are

making the decision in the NFL. That is the money. Now, if they

get it, then the hiring becomes simple because if they are inclusive

and they have diversity in their thinking, you don’t have to reeducate them. They don’t need some diversity program. It is business

and they understand that it is good business. On the collegiate

ranks, you have got the athletics director, you have got the search

committee. You also have the executive search committee that is

paid $35,000 to go out and execute the hire. You have got the president. You also have got the board of trustees who has to stamp

their approval and then you have got the booster who is given the

financial. So the money trail is spinning out there. There is so

many other people that are decision-makers that are involved in

the process. It is complicated on the collegiate level, and until we

decide that accountability becomes part of that, we are making the

knowledge, we are telling everybody what the issue is but there is

political and financial influence and that is the elephant that is

standing in the room. You have got to hold them accountable, and

how are you going to do that? Well, hopefully if we can’t do it with

title VII, then let us make a rule so we can make this something

we don’t have to deal with 10 years from now so that my son comes

in here and has to sit before you; he is not still talking about this.

Mr. BURGESS. Well, I think that is the salient point. When I

think of all the kids back home in the 26th district of Texas who

are probably not watching this because it is not on TV, but nevertheless, it is their future that we are talking about and——

Mr. KEITH. That is exactly right.

Mr. BURGESS. It is a pastime for many of us but it is their future

that we are talking about.

Coach Richardson, I just have to say, I am not an Arkansan but

I am related by marriage, and you had no bigger fan than my father-in-law, and if I went to Arkansas during college basketball

season, I knew what we were doing on Sunday afternoons and it

wasn’t fishing, so thank you, sir.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Thank you.

Mr. RUSH. I am going to ask a final question here because I want

to get another point of view here, and Mr. Weiser, you have been

an athletic director but you have had a rather unusual history of

hiring qualified minorities for head coaching positions, and in your

statement to this committee you said your hires are based upon the

fact that they are the most qualified in the market. You also cite

athletic directors as being largely equivalent to corporation CEOs

but you have come up with a solution or one remedy, your diversity

44

incentive remedy. Can you expound more on that and can you also

in your answer to my question, can you give the members of this

committee some idea of what should be the focus of our attention

if in fact we consider legislative remedies for this ongoing systemic

barrier to fairness and equality in college athletics.

Mr. WEISER. Well, yes. I certainly, Congressman, can give you

my perspective and I will tell you that first of all, each campus has

its different culture and I have heard several people refer to the

booster influence and I can tell you that I have worked at institutions where that is a factor and I work at an institution now where

that is not a factor, and I think the presidents have a lot to do with

making sure that the business of the university is conducted by the

university and not the outside influences. Now, that also has to

speak to how that university is governed. Some of the institutions

have their own governing boards. Others have boards that govern

a number of institutions like it is at Kansas State. And so I think

that has an impact on it.

But my point and what Myles and I talked about earlier, if 76

percent of the job openings these past 5 years have involved minority candidates, then to me trying to grow that pool isn’t the issue.

It is getting institutions to take that chance and hire those coaches

that are qualified to do that. Somebody referred to the risk-averse

nature of athletic directors and I will tell you that that is a very

real world but it is not a risk at least from my perspective on one’s

racial nature. It is not that issue. It is hiring somebody who you

think is going to be successful in the job because despite all this

talk about search committees and their involvement, search committees don’t get fired; athletic directors get fired and they get fired

because those coaches don’t succeed in those two positions primarily. That is who we are defined by, those decisions. So I think

when athletic directors recognize somebody that is going to be capable of succeeding, they are going to make that decision, and in

my case hiring Ron Prince, had he not been a coordinator, I

wouldn’t have considered him. In fact, my bias going into every

search is, I want to hire a sitting head coach because I think there

is less risk. You know what you have.

Well, if you have got six sitting head coaches, you already are behind the 8 ball, so to speak. You can’t get those numbers to grow

if they are small in that way so it has got to come from those coordinators that are considered out there and those candidates that

we get to know when it is not a search time because when the

search takes place, the BCA evaluates us on how long that search

goes. The longer, the better, because that allows more people to be

considered. But the media and our fans consider a longer search a

misdirected search, that something must be wrong because those

jobs that are hired instantly, those are the ADs and the searches

that are the most successful. I don’t believe that and I believe if

you go into a search already knowing who your candidate is, you

are not going to have an inclusive process. You are not going to

allow others to be involved.

So back to the diversity incentive. I think a better approach is

to find ways to encourage and reward those institutions that don’t

interview but hire. That is really what we are talking about. We

are trying to find a way to get more African-American head coaches

45

in football and basketball, and that is where the focus should be,

not on the interviews.

Mr. RUSH. I want to really thank this panel for your critical and

very, very important testimony. I also want to just assure you that

this is the first hearing. We don’t intend to have hearings ad infinitum. We intend to deal with this issue and deal with a resolution.

With your participation, with your involvement, I really open this

process to you. I invite your commentary. I invite your input. As

we proceed during the course of these legislative endeavors, I really

want your participation and your comment. I am committed myself

to trying to resolve this problem.

I think this is a problem that has languished far too long. It is

a problem that needs to be corrected. It is a problem that needs

to be exposed so that the American people will actually see what

goes in the area of college athletics, particularly at the athletic director, the head coaching levels, and also really at the athlete’s

level. I am concerned about student-athletes also. But this is just

the first foray into this area of investigation and area of inquiry.

Last, I just want to indicate, I think there was previous testimony that said when you get a general manager and owner together, they can make great decisions. There are still some rare instances where that is not the case. I would just take this opportunity to express to my favorite team, the Chicago Bears, that they

need to show Lovie some love and get that contract signed right

away because it is a parallel situation, I believe, that we have

heard here in a lot of different ways.

Thank you so very much, and please, it is an open invitation.

Whatever suggestions or input that you might want to share with

this committee in the future, do not hesitate to contact us. Thank

you, and this record will remain open for 30 days for additional

input on the official record. Thank you so much, and God bless you.

[Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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