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S. HRG. 113–366 

MEETING THE CHALLENGES OF FEEDING 

AMERICA’S SCHOOL CHILDREN 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 

NUTRITION AND FORESTRY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

JULY 23, 2014 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION AND FORESTRY 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan, Chairwoman 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont 

TOM HARKIN, Iowa 

SHERROD BROWN, OHIO 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, MINNESOTA 

MICHAEL BENNET, COLORADO 

KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, NEW YORK 

JOE DONNELLY, INDIANA 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, NORTH DAKOTA 

ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., PENNSYLVANIA 

JOHN WALSH, MONTANA 

THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi 

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia 

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

MIKE JOHANNS, Nebraska 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

CHRISTOPHER J. ADAMO, Majority Staff Director 

JONATHAN J. CORDONE, Majority Chief Counsel 

JESSICA L. WILLIAMS, Chief Clerk 

THOMAS ALLEN HAWKS, Minority Staff Director 

ANNE C. HAZLETT, Minority Chief Counsel and Senior Advisor 

(II) 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

HEARING(S): 

Meeting the Challenges of Feeding America’s School Children ........................... 1 

Wednesday July 23, 2014 

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS 

Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan, Chairwoman, Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry ............................ 1 

Cochran, Hon. Thad, U.S. Senator from the State of Mississippi ....................... 3 

Witnesses 

Wiggins, Betti, Executive Director, Office Food Services, Detroit Public 

Schools, Detroit, Michigan ................................................................................... 5 

Clements, Scott, Director, Office of Health Schools and Child Nutrition, Mississippi Department of Education, Jackson, Mississippi .................................. 7 

Bauscher, Julia, President, School Nutrition Association; Director of School 

and Community Nutrition Services, Jefferson County Public School, Louisville, Kentucky ...................................................................................................... 9 

Wilson, Katie, Phd., Executive Director, National Food Service Management 

Institute, University of Mississippi, University, Mississippi ........................... 11 

Muir, Phil, President and CEO, Muir Copper Canyon Farms, Salt Lake City, 

Utah ...................................................................................................................... 13 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Casey, Hon. Robert, P., Jr. .............................................................................. 42 

Cochran, Hon. Thad ......................................................................................... 44 

Leahy, Hon. Patrick J. ..................................................................................... 46 

Bauscher, Julia ................................................................................................. 48 

Clements, Scott ................................................................................................. 53 

Muir, Phil .......................................................................................................... 57 

Wiggins, Betti ................................................................................................... 62 

Wilson, Katie ..................................................................................................... 66 

DOCUMENT(S) SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

Wilson, Katie: 

Online Course Catalog ..................................................................................... 72 

NFSMI Training Topics ................................................................................... 73 

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: 

Bauscher, Julia: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Heidi Heitkamp ........................... 80 

Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr. .................... 83 

Clements, Scott: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Heidi Heitkamp ........................... 87 

Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr. .................... 88 

Muir, Phil: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Heidi Heitkamp ........................... 91 

Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr. .................... 91 

Written response to questions from Hon. Kirsten Gillibrand ....................... 94 

Page

IV 

Wiggins, Betti: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Heidi Heitkamp ........................... 95 

Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr.. ................... 96 

Wilson, Katie: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Heidi Heitkamp ........................... 99 

Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr. .................... 100 

(1) 

MEETING THE CHALLENGES OF FEEDING 

AMERICA’S SCHOOL CHILDREN 

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 

UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION AND FORESTRY, Washington, DC 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:34 a.m., room 328A, 

Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Debbie Stabenow, Chairwoman of the Committee, presiding. Present or submitting a statement: Senators Stabenow, Leahy, Brown, Klobuchar, Gillibrand, Donnelly, Heitkamp, Cochran, 

Chambliss, Boozman, Hoeven, Johanns, Grassley and Thune. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DEBBIE STABENOW, U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, CHAIRWOMAN, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION AND FORESTRY 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Good morning, and we are very excited 

about this hearing and welcome to each of you for coming. I do 

have to begin by saying we were saying back in the anteroom I 

think we want to do a hearing on school nutrition every week because we have been given a lot of great food this morning. 

We are going to make this a weekly effort. I know that Senator 

Leahy intends to come, but he brought us some pumpkin squares 

that we have from the school menu in Vermont, and I have tasted 

one. It is absolutely delicious. From Bob Casey, we have mushroom 

and meatballs. These are also great, 50 percent mushroom, 50 percent meat. I feel like I am on the Food Channel right now. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. These are also excellent. We thank Senator Casey who will be joining us, and we also have and I think 

Phil Muir from Salt Lake City is going to talk to us about what 

a half a cup looks like. Right. You brought that for us, and we have 

got some apple slices. We are here for the duration. We can last 

a while this morning. 

Not to offend my wonderful cafeteria folks where I was growing 

up in Claire but we did not eat like this when I was in school, this 

very delicious food this morning. 

We are very appreciative of everyone being here for our second 

hearing on child nutrition and to be able to talk to those in the 

trenches who are working hard to make things happen in the right 

way for our children. 

Let me just start by saying what we all know, that according to 

the Center for Disease Control, obesity in young children has more 

than doubled in the last 30 years. That is why this discussion is 

2 

so important. It has grown more than four times higher for teenagers in the same time frame. 

That is why we are involved. That is why we care. That is why 

this is a priority. That means today more than one out of every 

three children is either overweight or obese. As a country, we 

spend one out of every five healthcare dollars treating obesity-related illnesses every year. 

At our first hearing on this issue, we heard jarring testimony 

from a military general that 75 percent of our youth cannot qualify 

for military service, 75 percent. 

If we can turn a corner in this country by offering healthy food 

choices in schools and by teaching healthy eating habits, we will 

not only improve the health of our children but our country’s longterm economic and national security as well. 

Today we will examine the way school food service directors, 

farmers, school administrators, professionals, parents, community 

leaders are meeting the needs of our children every day by working 

together to serve healthy meals. 

You know, we have all heard the jokes about school meals and 

certainly growing up the burnt fish sticks and mystery meat tacos 

and cafeterias full of deep fries. I know from visiting with Betti 

that those are gone in Detroit, and those days I know are over. 

I have had the opportunity to visit many schools all across Michigan and I have been very impressed to see elementary school students enjoying broccoli and pineapple from the salad bars and students learning about where their food comes through farm to school 

garden efforts that are very exciting. 

The really good news is that this is not just happening in Michigan but in schools all across the country. We are seeing schools installing salad bars and serving low-fat turkey burgers and burritos 

packed with vegetables and whole grains. 

Schools are encouraging children to eat healthier by showing 

them that healthy can taste good too. In some cases, the students 

are not only enjoying this food at school but they are beginning to 

ask for it at home, and I have talked to local grocers who on different days have said they run out of different vegetables or fruits 

and could not figure out what was going on and discovered that 

was the day it was being served at school and the kids were going 

home and being for the parents to buy it at night. It is really interesting. 

This is so important when we look at where we are right now 

in terms of childhood obesity. We can only make these important 

changes if our friends and partners in the food industry, nonprofit 

organizations, agriculture, state and federal agencies, cafeterias, 

classrooms all work together. 

Today we will hear how schools are providing these fundamental 

foundational meals every day. Like the ingredients in many of the 

meals of schools serve, the work each of our witnesses does represents a key ingredient in helping our schools rise to the challenge 

of feeding our Nation’s children. 

As we know, this is not an easy task but the goal of reducing 

childhood hunger and obesity is too important to reverse course 

now. Instead, we are looking forward of how we can work together. 

3 

Today we will examine some of the challenges schools face in 

providing access to healthy foods, and most importantly, what solutions are there to address many of these concerns. 

Thank you again. I want to turn now to my distinguished Ranking Member and friend, Senator Cochran, for his opening remarks. 

STATEMENT OF HON. THAD COCHRAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI 

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, 

and we appreciate the attendance of all who are here today. I am 

especially pleased that we have two witnesses on our panel from 

Mississippi to discuss the school feeding programs and other programs that comprise federal support and provide the benefits of nutrition and physical soundness that we need in our country. 

I think we can continue to improve on the federal role, and this 

hearing furthers that purpose. Comments and suggestions from our 

witnesses about ways to improve these programs are welcomed and 

encouraged. 

I believe that there should be local flexibility to accommodate 

common sense concerns from the administrators at the local level, 

and any suggestions for changes in the underlying federal legislation supporting these programs is welcomed. We appreciate your 

participation with us in this endeavor. Thank you. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much, and I know, Senator Cochran, you have come, as you indicated, two distinguished 

representatives from Mississippi here. We are going to introduce 

our members and certainly if you want to, at the appropriate point, 

to introduce your members, your guests, we certainly want you to 

do that. 

Of course as always, our members are welcomed to put opening 

statements into the record but we will proceed now with the testimony. 

I am very pleased to introduce our first witness on this panel, 

Ms. Betti Wiggins, the Executive Director of Food Services for the 

Detroit Public Schools, which provides meals to 55,000 students 

every day. 

To date she has helped the district develop 77 school gardens. I 

have not seen all of them but I have seen a number of them. Certainly they are throughout the city supported by the Farm to 

School Program and improved the local community by serving 

minimally processed and locally produced foods whenever possible. 

Before joining Detroit Public Schools in 2000, Ms. Wiggins was 

the Chief of Food Service Administration for the public schools in 

Washington, DC, also served as the Vice Chair of the Local Food 

Association, a national trade group for local businesses that worked 

to increase market access and market share for both seller and 

commercial buyers of local food. 

Now, I will turn to Senator Cochran to introduce our next witness, Mr. Scott Clements. 

Senator COCHRAN. Madam Chairwoman, it is my pleasure to 

present Mr. Clements, who is Director of the Office of Child Nutrition and Healthy Schools at the Mississippi Department of Education. 

4 

In this role, he administers eight federal nutrition programs, including the National School Lunch, School Breakfast, Summer 

Food Service and Child and Adult Care Food Programs. 

In addition, his office directs several school-related health programs. He has 14 years of experience in child nutrition. He is the 

past president of the Mississippi School Nutrition Association and 

has served on the USDA Child Nutrition State Systems Working 

Group. 

May I also introduce Dr. Wilson? 

Chairwoman STABENOW. You are welcome to. 

Senator COCHRAN. Dr. Kathryn Wilson is the Executive Director 

of the National Food Service Management Institute at the University of Mississippi in Oxford. She serves as an Associate Professor 

at the University as well. 

She holds numerous academic degrees in food science, nutrition, 

and related fields, and has 23 years of experience as a school nutrition director. She has also served as the president of the School 

Nutrition Association. 

I am very pleased that both of them could be here today to help 

us review the nutrition programs that are administered by the Federal Government. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. 

Next we are very pleased to have Ms. Julia Bauscher, who is 

president of the School Nutrition Association for 2014 through 2015 

school year. She is also the Director of School and Community Nutrition Programs at Jefferson County Public Schools in Kentucky 

where meals to 100,000 students are served in 144 schools. 

Prior to joining the school district, Ms. Bauscher was a sales 

manager for three different food manufacturers. RJR Nabisco, 

Campbell Soup Company, and AJ Seibert Company. 

Since joining the district in 1994, Ms. Bauscher has overseen the 

development of a central kitchen and has leveraged the community 

by enlisting the help of a local professional chef to develop recipes. 

Finally, we are pleased to have Mr. Phil Muir, who is the president and CEO of Muir Copper Canyon Farm. He oversees his family produce business that began in 1850. You do not look that old 

actually. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. That is pretty good. Muir Copper Canyon Farm is based in Salt Lake City, Utah, serving the entire State 

of Utah and parts of Idaho and Wyoming. 

Mr. Muir’s clients include K-12 schools and universities, casual 

and fine dining restaurants. Mr. Muir serves on the Nutrition and 

Health Council of the United Fresh Foundation. In 2007, Mr. Muir 

served as Chairman of PRO*ACTIVE, America’s leading distributor 

of fresh produce to the food service industry. 

Welcome to all of you, and let me remind you that we do ask you 

to limit your comments to five minutes. We welcome any other 

written testimony and information that you would like to give us. 

But in the interest of time, and we actually have a vote at 11:00 

today so we want to make sure we have ample time to move 

through and ask questions. 

We will start with Ms. Wiggins, welcome. 

5 

STATEMENT OF BETTI WIGGINS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OFFICE FOOD SERVICES, DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS, DETROIT, 

MICHIGAN 

Ms. WIGGINS. Chairwoman Stabenow, Senator Cochran, honorable members of the Committee, I am Betti Wiggins, the Executive 

Director of the Detroit Public Schools’ Office of School Nutrition. I 

am honored to be with you here today to address what I believe 

to be a topic of fundamental importance to all of us: the health and 

well being of America’s children. As we all know, in school cafeteria lines, there are no Ds and Rs. 

There are only young Americans who we are all privileged to serve. 

I am grateful to Chairwoman Stabenow and to Ranking Member 

Cochran for the deliberative and constructive tone of this Committee’s deliberations on this important issue. 

The trials and tribulations of Detroit are well known. In a district with declining enrollment and multiple facilities closures in 

recent years, I have the great pleasure of supervising the provision 

of high quality meals to approximately 50,000 valued and loved 

children. 

Most of our children eat breakfast and lunch with us, and many also eat supper within our facilities. Our work makes a critical 

positive difference in the their lives, their families, and our community. DPS was the first school district in the country to make 

breakfast universally available, supported by several studies that 

demonstrate a direct correlation between eating breakfast and improved academic performance. 

Our lunch program provides free, fresh-cooked, hot foods to all students in all schools. Our menu includes a healthy array of fresh 

vegetables and fruits, whole grains, lean proteins, 100 percent fruit 

juices and low-fat milk. We also offer free healthy suppers for numerous at-risk students through our after-school programs. 

In Detroit, we have warmly welcome the higher nutritional 

standards of the 2010 Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act. The legislation and resulting regulations have prompted us to institute 

changes that are making a positive difference in the lives of our 

children and our employees. 

The improved nutrition standards provide a framework that supports several other provisions of the legislation, including additional training opportunities for school nutrition staff and equipment purchasing assistance. 

It is the improved nutrition standards that have allowed us to 

introduce new equipment in our kitchens. Produce washers, salad 

bars, vegetable steamers, warming stations and convection ovens 

are the new norm. 

Yes, Senator Stabenow, deep fat fryers are obsolete. 

The nutrition standards are a force for positive change in Detroit, a force that we see as a necessity for improving the life long 

health and well being of our children. 

In addition to new equipment, our food distribution partners are 

finding the products we need to provide our children the quality 

food they need and deserve. We have found food manufacturers become determined to meet our improved nutrition standards. Food 

companies of all sizes are developing innovations designed to help 

us meet the new regulatory requirements. 

6 

All of this change is enabling us to be more effectively serve the 

nutritional needs of all our children. While approximately 87 percent of our children in Detroit are eligible for free school meals, I 

have discovered through my career that hunger and malnutrition 

is not confined to children from low-income families. 

In fact, food insecurity is as common among children from the 

end of the cul-de-sac as it is among those from urban street corners. The Community Eligibility Provision, or CEP option, allows 

high-poverty schools like those in our district to provide breakfast 

and lunch to all students free of charge, increasing efficiency and 

reducing hunger. 

The program also delivers benefits to our program through reduced administrative burdens resulting from elimination of paper 

applications. The increased meal participation rates allow me to 

capture economies of scale, while the savings generated by elimination of paper applications covers the cost of providing meals to 

children who might otherwise pay, improving the overall financial 

stability of our programs. 

As you are likely aware, 4000 schools in 11 states are now participating in CEP. The work of you and your Committee, Chairwoman Stabenow, is making a critical positive difference in the 

lives of tens of thousands of Detroit children each and every day. 

Each of you knows far better than I that USDA funding is all 

about improving the economic conditions of rural America. One of 

my greatest joys and another direct benefit of improved nutrition 

standards has been increasing our purchase of Michigan grown, 

Michigan grown farm products. 

As the Vice Chair of the Local Food Association, the Nation’s 

only trade association for buyers and sellers of sustainably produced local food products, I am particularly motivated to do my 

part to increase the market share of local farmers. 

Our Farm to School Program has produced partnerships with regional farmers that are generating healthy returns for them and 

for our children. We are feeding fresh Michigan asparagus to inner 

city teenagers, and they like it. We are increasing our children’s exposure to fresh foods, planting the seeds for lifelong habits that will 

produce improved health and quality of life. 

In addition to fresh vegetables and fruits from nearby farms and 

Farm to School Programs, we also have the additional benefits of 

delivering educational opportunities in the cafeteria, classroom visits by participating farmers, and school garden opportunities. 

In 2012, DPS and its community partners initiated an effort to 

create gardens at the schools throughout the district, expanding 

teachers’ access to real-life laboratories to teach children about 

healthy eating, nutrition, and concepts around growing food while 

increasing our schools’ access to fresh fruits and vegetables. Each 

site features raised beds bed built by our children, and thereby 

having access to fresh fruits and vegetables. 

The learning centers, these garden sites then become learning 

centers. We now have 71 schools with gardens. We have a 2 and 

a half acre school farm and we have reestablished the nationally 

known Catherine Ferguson Farm. We are also currently engaged in 

the development of the Kettering Project, which is the repurposing 

of a closed thirty-acre high school site. 

7 

In conclusion, Madam Chairwoman, our recent shared progress 

toward improving school nutrition programs represents a solid 

value proposition for the Nation. As leaders responsible for the well 

being of children, whether we are parents, in Congress, school nutrition officers, in food business or at USDA, we must steal our 

focus away from the process of change to instead emphasize the 

progress enabled by the new policies. 

Institutional change is difficult, and often seems near impossible. 

It always takes time and includes short-term discomfort. The investments prompted by improved school nutrition standards have 

and will continue to generate invaluable returns. 

Any short-term pains pale in comparison to the benefits from reform that is both highly desirable and attainable. Change worth 

making takes time. Nine out of ten school districts across the country are already in compliance with the new standards. We are making it work and work well in Detroit. I am fully confident that all 

other districts will do the same. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to be with you, Chairwoman 

Stabenow. As a Michigan resident, I want to say how proud and 

grateful we are for your leadership on this issue. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Wiggins can be found on page 62 

in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. We are so 

pleased to have you here today. 

Mr. Clements, we welcome you as well. 

STATEMENT OF SCOTT CLEMENTS, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF 

HEALTH SCHOOLS AND CHILDREN NUTRITION, MISSISSIPPI 

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI 

Mr. CLEMENTS. Thank you very much. Chairwoman Stabenow, 

Ranking Member Cochran, and Members of the Committee, my 

name is Scott Clements and I am the Director of the Offices of 

Healthy Schools and the Office of Child Nutrition for the Mississippi Department of Education. 

On behalf of State Superintendent Wright, the State Board of 

Education, and our many thousands of food service workers in Mississippi, thank you for this opportunity to speak to you today. 

I have a few Mississippi initiatives I would like to discuss. The 

first of those is our state-wide purchasing cooperative, the first 

child nutrition state-wide purchasing in the country. This project 

actually began in 1992 and it is an effort to both lower costs and 

simplify procurement for local school districts. 

The majority of school districts in Mississippi have only a very 

small number of schools and many of these are rurally located. As 

such, both product prices and delivery fees were high due to the 

limited buying power of those small districts. However, by pooling 

the buying power of almost every school in our State, we are able 

to utilize the economies of scale inherent with large volume purchasing. This allows us to provide significant savings to participating organizations. 

Our office issues bids for foods and related supplies used in excess of $130 million per year. Due to the high volume of purchases, 

we are able to negotiate prices directly with manufacturers and 

8 

sometime, we are able to reduce costs even further by having only 

delivery phases associated with those items. 

Currently, the Cooperative has 183 member organizations with 

almost a thousand delivery sites. The majority of the participating 

organizations are public schools, and we have all but two of our 

school districts in the State participating. We also have a number 

of Head Starts and governmental agencies who are also participating in the National School Lunch Program. 

We are not allowed to use USDA State Administrative Expense 

Funds to support this program unfortunately. Instead, the Cooperative is self-funded. We charge participants about half a penny per 

lunch served to pay for staff, travel and office supplies associated 

with the program. 

Our office is also responsible for the ordering and distribution of 

over $16 million of USDA donated foods annually. Through our 

Purchasing Cooperative, we already have a statewide delivery system in place so we are able to further reduce the costs for our participating organizations by having those USDA Foods delivered by 

the same manufacturers and the same brokers. 

We have also made use of both the buying power and distribution network of our purchasing cooperative to support Farm to 

School at the State level. Even though Mississippi is an agriculture-based State, schools face many challenges implementing 

Farm to School Programs. Many of our State’s most abundant 

crops, cotton and soybeans, obviously cannot go to the cafeteria 

table. Then we have many of our most plentiful crops also have 

harvested during the summer season when school is not in session. 

To assist our Mississippi schools and our Mississippi farmers, we 

have worked with the Department of Defense and the Mississippi 

Department of Agriculture since 2002 to bring locally grown products to schools throughout the State. During school year 2014– 

2015, we will have about $1,000,000 of locally-grown produce delivered to schools through our office. 

Another initiative of our office was to assist schools in meeting 

the new sodium requirements. When first announced, products 

simply did not exist to make it available for schools to meet the sodium requirements and still have nutritious and appetizing meals 

to maintain participation. The buying power of our cooperative 

again played a role. We were able to partner with a chef from the 

Culinary Institute of America and a national food manufacturer to 

provide, actually they produced a new low sodium spice blends. We 

have three of those available now, and those are now available to 

schools through the United States. We also supplied schools with 

50 standardized recipes to incorporate the new spice blends to reduce sodium in the school meals. 

The last thing I would like to talk to you about is school meals, 

recipes, and the menus. Since 1996, Mississippi has provided Mississippi cycles. It was a coordinated program of the sample menus 

and recipes that the schools could implement and meet nutrition 

standards. 

That was updated in 2005 but we found with the new Health 

Hunger Free Kids Act in 2010 that system no longer worked. The 

menu planning was more complex. We put together a task force. 

We created Mississippi Recipes for Success. 

9 

We now have matrices. We have standardized menus. We have 

a six-binder set that will be going to all of our schools. We have 

an online program that is available to any school in the country 

that would like to participate, and this was all in response to the 

complex menu planning which we unfortunately felt like our small 

schools just did not have the resources to implement by themselves. 

The last piece of that is again with our purchasing cooperative, 

Mississippi Recipes for Success, we have standardized ingredients. 

We have standardized recipes across the board for almost all of our 

schools in Mississippi; and that has been a benefit to us when it 

comes to the administrative reviews which are more frequent now 

than they used to be, are more complex in many ways than they 

used to be. But by having all those pieces together, it has simplified the process and made it possible for Mississippi to meet 

those new standards. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before this Committee. I would be pleased to answer any questions or provide additional information as needed. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Clements can be found on page 

53 in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Well, thank you very much. 

Ms. Bauscher, thank you very much. We are very glad that you 

are here. 

STATEMENT OF JULIA BAUSCHER, PRESIDENT, DIRECTOR OF 

SCHOOL AND COMMUNITY NUTRITION SERVICES, SCHOOL 

NUTRITION ASSOCIATION, JEFFERSON COUNTY PUBLIC 

SCHOOL, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Thank you. Chairman Stabenow, Ranking Member Cochran, other Members of the Committee, on behalf of the 

55,000 members of the School Nutrition Association, thank you for 

the opportunity to discuss our shared goal of strengthening America’s child nutrition programs. 

School nutrition professionals recognize the importance of 

healthy school meals to the academic success of American’s students. That is why we have expanded our school breakfast options, 

increased summer feeding sites, launched new supper programs, 

and are taking advantage of the new community eligibility provision. 

We have worked diligently to improve the nutrition of school 

menus and we support most of the new regulations. We are increasing the serving size and variety of the fruits and vegetables 

we offer, serving more whole grains and meeting limits on calories 

and fats while reducing sodium. We are also making healthier 

choices more appealing to students and steadily increasing the 

quantity of local foods we serve. 

School attrition professionals are truly committed to the Healthy, 

Hunger-Free Kids Act and its goal of expanding access to school 

meals, and that is why we are so concerned about the historic decline in student lunch participation. 

For thirty years, the National School Lunch Program has grown 

steadily. But according to USDA, under the new requirements, student participation is abruptly down in 49 states. More than one 

million fewer students choose school lunch each day, even though 

10 

student enrollment in participating schools increased by 1.2 million 

last year. 

Nationwide, we have witnessed a nearly 15 percent decline in 

paid meal participation. If this trend continues, the school cafeteria 

will no longer be a place where all students dine and learn healthy 

habits together, but rather a place where poor students must go to 

get their free lunch. 

Despite our best efforts, schools have struggled with student acceptance of new menu options. Many have been challenged to find 

whole grain rich tortillas, biscuits, crackers, and other specialty 

items that appeal to students. 

Students have complained that their pastas and breads are 

burnt, tough or taste strange; and indeed, these whole grains do 

have a different texture, appearance, and flavor than what students might find at home or in their favorite restaurants. 

Food companies serving the school have introduced new foods 

that meet all of the standards and student tastes, but some of 

these products are not widely available or affordable, especially to 

small and rural districts. 

School districts with low free and reduced eligibility also face 

unique challenges under the standards because paid meal participation declines have a greater impact on their budgets. In states 

like Colorado, Minnesota, New York, and Illinois, some schools are 

dropping out of the program rather than having to meet the rigid 

and costly requirements. Most school districts, however, rely on the 

National School Lunch Program’s reimbursements and do not have 

the option or desire to leave the program. 

The School Nutrition Association found that in the 2012–2013 

school year 47 percent of school meal programs reported revenue 

declined while more than nine of ten reported food costs were up. 

With the federal reimbursement rate for serving a free lunch just 

over $3, schools are required to serve healthy school meals for less 

than what most people paid for their morning coffee. Schools must 

cover labor and benefits, supplies, equipment, and other expenses, 

leaving little more than $1 for the food for each lunch tray. 

Food, especially those required in the new regulations, is getting 

more expensive. Yet, despite significant increases in prices over the 

last year, the reimbursement rate adjustment for the coming school 

year was actually smaller than the previous school year. 

In my district, each half pint of milk alone will cost me a nickel 

more this school year, exceeding the four cent increase for the 

breakfast. Although we appreciate every penny received, this adjustment comes nowhere close to covering the costs schools face 

now that they must double the amount of fruit offered at breakfast, 

up to a full cup. 

Meanwhile, now that students must take a fruit or vegetable 

with their meals, whether they intend to eat it or not, we have 

watched in despair as much of this costly produce ends up in the 

trash, $680,000,000 per year, according to Cornell University researchers. 

As schools struggle to manage rising costs and waste, what once 

was a problem for meal programs is rapidly becoming a problem for 

school districts. We cannot carry over annual losses so school disVerDate Nov 24 2008 17:22 Feb 23, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\USERS\MW42035\DESKTOP\DOCS\89520.TXT MICAH
11 

tricts have to pick up our tab. Financial instability in the meal program can cut into a school district’s educational funds. 

This fall schools face more challenges as they work to meet the 

new Smart Snacks in School rules. While many of these requirements are welcome changes, some meal programs have had to strip 

healthy entree options from their a la carte menus because of the 

strict sodium limits under Smart Snacks. 

In closing, I ask that School Nutrition Association’s 55,000 members continue to be part of the on-going discussion as members of 

the Committee draft the reauthorization language. 

Thank you again for inviting me here today and I am happy to 

answer any questions the Committee has. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Bauscher can be found on page 

48 in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. We certainly intend to have you involved all the way along. 

But Dr. Wilson, welcome. 

STATEMENT OF KATIE WILSON, PHD., EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

NATIONAL FOOD SERVICE MANAGEMENT INSTITUTE, UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI, UNIVERSITY, MISSISSIPPI 

Dr. WILSON. Thank you. Madam Chair, Senator Cochran, Members of the Committee, I am Dr. Katie Wilson, the Executive Director of the National Food Service Management Institute, at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, Mississippi. 

I appreciate the opportunity to share our outreach with you 

today. We are meeting here at a time of unprecedented coverage 

of the school. School meal programs are not only a key part of the 

vital health safety net for our Nation’s children, but as a past 

school nutrition director in Wisconsin for 23 years, I believe they 

are the best safety net for our children. When a child walks 

through those cafeteria doors, the benefit is in the form of food and 

the child is assured access to that food. 

Due to the scope of that responsibility, school meal programs 

should also serve as learning tools educating children what a 

healthy meal looks like. We operate in the education arena, so 

school meals must be part of that education process. 

As a country, we have a serious problem with obesity. It is simply overwhelming to think about the health outcomes of the future. 

Yet, at the same time, each of us in this hearing room is struggling 

to balance our idea of what a school meal should consist of and 

under what guidance school meals should operate. 

In a school meals learning exchange with the United Kingdom, 

I have come to learn that the nutrition standards instituted 

throughout the United Kingdom years ago are still actively progressing the health and well-being of students. They will tell you 

it was not easy and it took time for students to accept them, but 

it was in the best interest for national wellness. Scotland, for example, has begun to see a decrease in dental carries along with 

other positive outcomes. 

Lindsay Graham, School Food and Health Advisor from the 

United Kingdom, is here in the audience today as a Churchill Fellow from the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust. She can lend 

more detail after the hearing if there is interest. 

12 

The strong federal support for these programs in the United 

States is of interest to our colleagues in the United Kingdom. 

One of the areas of interest to many child nutrition professionals 

are the numerous resources available from the National Food Service Management Institute, also known as ‘‘The Institute’’. These resources are all available free of charge to assist everyone throughout the United States and its territories, involved in providing 

meals to children using the federal school meal programs. The Institute is the only federally funded national center dedicated to assisting child nutrition professionals in improving the quality and 

operation of child nutrition programs. Authorized by Congress 

under Section 21 of the Richard B. Russell National School Lunch 

Act, it is funded by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and other 

outside foundations. 

Training and assistance is available in a variety of formats. We 

have over 20 training topics from hands on culinary training, financial management, inventory control, and meal pattern training 

available in a face-to-face format. 

With approximately 200 plus trained trainers organized as regional training teams throughout the USDA regions, we have provided face-to-face training for over 7000 child nutrition professionals throughout the United States and its territories during 

2012–2013 reporting period. I just got the numbers for this year, 

and it was well over 8000 participants of face-to-face trainings that 

occurred. 

One specific example of this included Healthy Cuisine Kids Culinary Class, a two day training taught by a chef and a registered 

dietitian. It is offered whenever a state school nutrition association 

or a state agency requests it. 

In Mississippi, the State Agency organized eight of these classes 

with over 240 total participants in the State in a two-month period. 

In California, they organized over 10 of these culinary classes 

throughout their State with 350 total participants, all funded either by outside foundations or the USDA grant administered by 

The Institute. 

These are hands-on classes offering school nutrition professionals 

the opportunity to learn new culinary skills or refresh the ones 

they already have. All other face-to-face topics are available in the 

same manner. All of our curriculum for these face-to-face trainings 

are available to download free of charge for districts to use within 

their own time frame and convenience in an easy to use manner. 

Many short training videos are available for download and use 

in school and child care kitchens as well. These are anywhere from 

6-to 20-minute videos on very specific topics such as cooking dried 

peas and beans. We have many of these trainings available as online training courses. From how to best use USDA Foods, nutrition 

101, food safety, norovirus, and others. There are over 40 topics of 

online courses easy to access from your computer or tablet, all free 

of charge. 

Participants can start and stop them at their convenience and a 

certificate of completion comes up after the participant completes 

the course and passes a quiz with a 70 percent learning rate. In 

the 2012–2013 reporting period, over 33,000 participants registered 

and completed an online course through The Institute. We again 

13 

are looking at exceeding this number as we compile our 2013–2014 

report. All available free of charge. 

Individual technical assistance is available free of charge if a 

state agency or regional office requests that assistance for a specific 

district. We hire a consultant based on the area of expertise needed, go in and help that district come into compliance in whatever 

area they need. 

We have recently worked in two districts in Kansas and are presently working with the New York City with personal technical assistance to their district. These again all free of charge. 

Madam Chair, school meals have become a focus point for many 

in this country. The Institute and many other allied organizations 

provide great resources for school nutrition professionals as they 

work to ensure high quality, nutritious meals are being served to 

our school children. 

Although it has become more and more challenging to feed a consumer savvy population, it is important to realize what our job is 

within that school building. A child will learn life-long eating habits during their tenure in school. 

In closing, I would like to thank the Senate for its leadership in 

providing this hearing and your commitment to our children and 

child nutrition programs. I am happy to answer any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Wilson can be found on page 66 

in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Phil Muir, you are welcome. We are glad to have you. 

STATEMENT OF PHIL MUIR, PRESIDENT AND CEO MUIR 

COPPER CANYON FARMS, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 

Mr. MUIR. Thank you. Good Morning, Chairwoman Stabenow, 

Ranking Member Cochran and Members of the Senate 

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry. 

My name is Phillip Muir. I am the President and CEO of Muir 

Copper Canyon Farms in Salt Lake City. Thank you for inviting 

me here today and for calling attention to the critical issue of 

school nutrition. 

I am passionate about making a difference in the nutrition of our 

school age children. Muir Copper Canyon Farms is a food service 

produce distributor that provides fresh fruits and vegetables to 52 

rural and urban school districts in Utah, Idaho, and western Wyoming with a total enrollment of 450,000 students. We are the 

USDA/DOD Fresh Prime Vendor for schools and for three Indian 

Reservations in these three states. 

We also provide schools with fresh fruits and vegetables for their 

Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program, School Lunch, School Breakfast and the Summer Feeding Programs. Schools are about 15 percent of our company revenue. 

Muir Copper Canyon Farms is an owner member of PRO*ACT, 

LLC, which is a cooperative of 70 produce distributors across North 

America who leverage our purchasing power together to make the 

most price effective, quality assured, and food safe purchases possible. We are also a member of United Fresh Produce Association 

and I serve on its Nutrition and Health Council. 

14 

We have a saying at Muir Copper Canyon Farms, ‘‘Our School 

Customers Deserve the Best’’. Success to us is students eating more 

fresh fruits and vegetables going home and telling their parents 

about the new fruits and vegetables they have tried at school and 

then helping to improve the family’s eating habits. 

We consider ourselves more than just a supplier or bid winner. 

We are a partner with our school customers. Our goal is to be a 

solution provider through information, training, and consultation 

assisting schools to successfully implement all of the new fruit and 

vegetable requirements. 

Our staff meets with our school customers throughout the school 

year to discuss new fruit and vegetable items available, 

seasonality, buying local produce, and getting the best value for 

their limited budgets. 

We provide schools with our ‘‘Fresh Produce Standards and Handling Guide’’ as a training tool and provide schools with special 

training workshops, nutrition education materials, Farmer bios, 

and participate in district Kick-Off events. This is a collaborative 

relationship. I will highlight a few examples. 

For the Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program, we worked with 

schools to lower labor and packaging costs while providing them 

with a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables individually 

portioned and in a system easy to deliver to the classroom. 

We have a booth at the Utah SNA show each year. In June, we 

demonstrated how schools could grill fresh vegetables in bite sizes. 

When one attendee said, ‘‘We do not have grills in our schools, that 

is not realistic’’, we showed them how the same results could be 

achieved using their school ovens. We have introduced new dark 

green leafy salad mixes to our schools that are more appealing, nutrient dense, and cost effective. 

From our experience, there are a few key points I want to make. 

Schools that were proactive in improving the healthfulness of their 

school meals early on, and made incremental changes, and offered 

nutrition education are not having problems or experiencing significant increased plate waste. 

Successful elementary schools that qualify for the Fresh Fruit 

and Vegetable Program had previously introduced their students to 

a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables as part of their lunch 

program. Students eat fresh fruits and vegetables when they are 

served in great tasting fruits and vegetables presented in an appetizing manner. 

The Dietary Guidelines for Americans calls for children and 

adults to ‘‘make half their plate fruits and vegetables’’ at every 

meal. How can you call school breakfast or school lunch a ‘‘meal’’ 

if it does not include at least a half cup of fruits or vegetables? 

After all, it is only half a cup per meal. 

The produce industry is committed and stands ready to support 

school food service directors in successfully implementing the new 

fruit and vegetable requirements. Just last week, myself, and 

produce distributors, growers, fresh-cut processors, PRO*ACT, and 

United Fresh Produce Association hosted a Fresh Produce Pavilion 

at the School Nutrition Association’s annual convention in Boston. 

Hundreds of school food service directors came to our ‘‘Ask the 

Experts-Produce Solution Center’’ to ask questions about writing 

15 

Produce RFPs, to talk about how they could procure more fresh 

and vegetables. We also presented two educational workshop sessions on these subjects, all in an effort to assist the school nutrition 

community. 

We strongly support the continued implementation of the 

Healthy, Hungry-Free Kids Act of 2010 and maintaining the requirements that school children have access to a wide variety of 

colorful fruits and vegetables and select a half cup of fruit or vegetable at each meal. This is about improving the health of America’s 

children. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to speak here today, and I 

am happy to answer any questions. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Muir can be found on page 57 

in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much to all of you for 

your very important testimony. 

Let me get into the questions I have. I have a lot of questions 

and we do not have a lot of time so I ask everyone to be brief so 

we can all get in as many as we can. I know there is a lot to say. 

Betti, Ms. Wiggins, let me start with you because we hear a lot 

of concerns about the difficulty with getting students to accept new 

healthy foods and I just think back to myself or my kids when they 

were in school and so on how things go up and down and new foods 

come in. It takes time to change and certainly we all know the 

change can be a challenge even in our own lives. 

But you said students are really enjoying the foods, particularly 

the produce in Detroit, and so I am wondering what you are doing 

differently that is helping students to want to eat fruits and vegetables. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Well, what we did in Detroit, when the 2010 

Healthy and Hungry Free Act was passed, I did not wait until 2014 

before I started introducing kids. In Detroit, you have to do things 

early because of the stronger administrative standards that this 

guy was going to have when he came out to our program. 

We used things like the Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program 

where we introduced those items to children. They ate them raw. 

They ate them in their natural state. Then we put them on the 

menu. 

We also implemented off of first to serve which is permitted, 

which is flexibility that the USDA provides to us. The kids do not 

have to take all the items. They just have to leave the line with 

a couple fruit. 

Also, budget permitting, we introduced our local foods. We introduced our local foods at a time. Being from Michigan, an apple was 

primarily used, Stabenow. We did introduce apples, all the different varieties of apples. 

Then if you started early, kindergartners then are fourth-graders 

now. They understand that this is our lunch program. Fourth-graders then are eighth-graders now and they know this is what a 

school meal looks like in Detroit. Eighth-graders now are 12thgraders and hopefully when they are going on to college they would 

have had the experience of eating healthy foods. 

It is really about constantly and continuously educating our children, putting the items before them and using the various reVerDate Nov 24 2008 17:22 Feb 23, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\USERS\MW42035\DESKTOP\DOCS\89520.TXT MICAH
16 

sources that people like the produce providers, our Department of 

Education provided to us so that kids get used to seeing these 

items on their trays. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Mr. Muir, you talk about getting the 

best value for produce, reducing plate waste which we hear a lot 

of concerns about, and again across my life watching certainly my 

friends and I admit once or twice myself dumping things out. I do 

not think that is new that kids do that. 

But could you talk about how, a little bit more about how you 

are working with rural communities to address the concerns and 

challenges that have been raised? 

Mr. MUIR. Yes, thank you. That is a good question. 

First of all, as far as the plate waste, we do work closely with 

those school districts to try to limit that. I think the best way to 

fight that is serving appropriate appetizingly prepared fresh fruits 

and vegetables that someone actually wants to eat. 

As far as rural schools are concerned, that is a particular challenge. As an example, we service Cokeville, Wyoming, which is 

about 153 miles, excuse me about 180 miles from Salt Lake City. 

127 families in that community yet we get fresh fruits and vegetables to their school every week. It takes some effort and it takes 

effort on their part. We have assisted them in the educational 

pieces so that they can provide the same level of education and add 

fresh fruit availability as urban schools do. That is one example. 

Another one is in Pinedale, Wyoming. If you ever have been to 

Pinedale, Wyoming, it is not easy to get to. It is out in the middle 

of beautiful country. It takes a ride on three separate trucks to get 

there but we get produce there on a weekly basis to them too. 

Produce can be distributed to the rural schools but it does take 

an extra effort either on the organizations like cooperatives like 

Mr. Clements mentioned or on actually distributors providing educational material to help underpin those small school districts. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you, very much. 

Ms. Bauscher, I do not think time wise I am going to have a 

chance to really get into the issue that I want to but maybe on a 

second-round on the amount of time children have to actually eat 

which I know is an issue of concern that we need to talk about but 

I do want, at this point, just to, first of all, congratulate you on 

your convention. 

Our staff was there, I know Senator Cochran’s and mine. It 

sounds like you had a great convention. I understand there were 

over 400 vendors that participated. Congratulations on that, and 

that they all demonstrated products that were compliant and that 

in order to participate all 400 had to demonstrate products that 

were compliant with breakfast, lunch, and competitive food requirements. Is that correct? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Yes, we were very fortunate to have many of our 

industry supporters there to provide a variety of products. Again, 

industry has really stepped up to the plate to provide products that 

meet the fat requirements, that are lower in sodium, that are 

whole grain rich, and we are very thankful for that. 

I know in my visits with some reporters on the show floor I went 

straight to produce row to show them the many new products that 

produce vendors are offering us. 

17 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Right. 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Again, our members support the increased quantities of fruits and vegetables, the wide varieties of fruits and vegetables; but many districts are struggling with the challenge of procuring those. 

Utah and the area serviced by Mr. Muir are very fortunate. But 

we are also concerned about again the waste and what is going in 

the trash can and how that if students could choose it if they like 

how that money might not go in the trash can but might be used 

for nutrition education which is very important in getting children 

to change their eating habits. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. I understand. I just think it is a good 

step forward and I congratulate you on getting 400 vendors that 

have already adjusted their production capabilities to meet 100 

percent whole grain rich sodium one targets, competitive foods, 

fruits and vegetables. That is a good first step. 

We need to continue to work with you but I thought that was a 

very impressive first step. Let us, at this point, turn to Senator 

Cochran. 

Senator COCHRAN. Madam Chair, thank you very much for your 

leadership in scheduling this hearing. We appreciate very much the 

participation of our panel of witnesses. 

I want to ask Mr. Clements, as Director of our Office of Healthy 

Schools and Child Nutrition at the Mississippi Department of Education, what his experience has been with tools such as the menu 

planner. I am referring to the menu planner which was created at 

the state level to implement meal standards in schools throughout 

our state. 

What have been your challenges or successes that you could 

share with the Committee and the panel? 

Mr. CLEMENTS. Thank you, sir. I think the biggest success that 

we have had was we decided in 2010, we came up with an aggressive training schedule and we provided in 2012 and again in 2013 

regional sessions for all of our SFAs so that they could get training 

from our office. 

I think that has been critical for again our small school districts 

to have the tools to implement the changes and, of course, like I 

said we have the online tool now and the printed versions are coming to them. 

The challenges that we have had, unfortunately, have been the 

complexity of the rules. The expression used in Mississippi sometimes, and I am sure you will appreciate this, coming from home, 

is we feel like we are drinking from the firehose sometimes. 

There have been approximately 150 policy memos that have 

come out to clarify the regulations since 2010. That has been a very 

big challenge for us to, one, get those at our level and decide how 

we are going to implement them and then get that training out to 

the school districts. 

Probably the last these there is, unfortunately, we know our 

partners at USDA work very hard and we appreciate their efforts 

but sometimes guidance will come out very close to the implementation deadline. We may get it out a few weeks or a month before 

it has to be implemented for that school year, and that is hard for 

us because we have to make our training on what we think will 

18 

be in place at the time and we make our best effort there. But 

sometimes those policy memos will change at the last minute or 

granted we love some of the exemptions that have come out. They 

have been very beneficial. But sometimes when they come out at 

the last minute, it is hard for us to pivot with our purchasing cooperative. We have contracts that are in place sometimes years in advance and then to get the training out to our food service administrators. 

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. 

Senator Brown. 

Senator BROWN. Thank you, and thank you. This is a really important discussion and I appreciate all five of you weighing in the 

way you have. I think the testimony from all five of you has shown 

us as history illustrates that change is always difficult. You used 

the term that there is short-term pain, Ms. Wiggins, I think that 

is right. I think we acknowledge that but I also think that Dr. Wilson’s comments about this creates life-long eating habits for young 

people as they become older people and how important that is. 

Thank you for all that you are doing to get through this and 

make such a change as you have made for such a good while, Ms. 

Wiggins, in the Detroit public schools and that, Mr. Clements, you 

are doing in Mississippi and you are all doing so thank you for 

that. 

A couple of questions. The first one for Dr. Wilson. I want to 

briefly mention the experience in the Cincinnati public schools. 

Cincinnati, our understanding, was the first school system, big 

school system in the country that started a school lunch program 

that was not government-subsidized in those days, 115 or so years 

ago. 

Jessica Shelly, the food service director for Cincinnati public, told 

us that she serves 50,000 meals a day. She has made that at the 

salad bars. In every school increased participation in the breakfast 

program, worked with students to feature appealing healthy meals, 

done all this while finishing the 2012 school year with a significant 

profit. 

How do we, Dr. Wilson, replicate that success in other big-city 

school districts and in other school districts generally? 

Dr. WILSON. Thank you for the question. 

I think that it can be replicated and I think it has been in many 

other districts as well. Jessica is another one that started early. 

She did not wait for the deadline. She started early. 

The USDA also has a voluntary program called Healthier U.S. 

School Challenge. It is a voluntary program that started before the 

meal pattern was put into play as regulation. 

Many schools got on board and started with the Healthier U.S. 

School Challenge, it includes nutrition education, the meal pattern, 

and physical education. Means Two actually has a training program, a training class for that. 

A lot of those schools that started early and got things rolling, 

they were able to do it. I know in my experience in Wisconsin, I 

left the district four years ago. I was in a very small rural school 

district to start my program; and fresh fruits and vegetables, all we 

19 

did was put a mandatory you have to serve three colors. That was 

what my cooks were told to do. An increase in produce and fresh 

fruits and vegetables skyrocketed because it was served in an appealing manner. 

But we also hold a major city training symposium every year 

with The Institute where we bring all the 40 largest districts in the 

country together and we have these kinds of discussions. But I 

think you will find out in Dallas, Texas, it is working very well as 

well. Los Angeles is doing a really good job. 

There are really good role models I think that we could put out 

there. There is also a website that USDA holds through the National Ag Library called healthy meals. All these states like Mississippi that are doing these really great things that people can use 

because they were produced by state and federal dollars, they are 

all on those websites. 

Kansas is another one that does phenomenal work and was way 

ahead of the game where all of those resources are available to everyone free of charge, menus, ordering lists, how to purchase, procurement rules. All that kind of stuff is available if people know 

it is out there. 

Senator BROWN. Thank you, Dr. Wilson. 

Ms. Wiggins, I would like to ask you a question. My wife and I 

about eight or nine months ago moved into the city of Cleveland. 

The zip code we live in actually had the highest rates for three 

years running a few years ago, not in the last couple of years, had 

the highest rates of foreclosure of any ZIP code in the United 

States. We know the challenges in urban areas and your city and 

my city. 

We have also seen, Cleveland is ranked in the top two or three 

of any cities, of all cities in the country in terms of urban gardening. I was specifically interested in your comments that what 

you have done with urban gardening. 

Talk more about that and what the city school food system has 

done with using community gardens and using urban gardening 

generally. Translate this into what we can do in Cleveland and others of us can do around the country in urban gardening, selling directly to the schools. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Thank you for the question. 

One of the things that has been most positive, we at the Detroit 

Public Schools did not try to do it by ourselves. I reached out to 

numerous community partners. One of my best partners is the Detroit Eastern Market, who has access to farmers. I also reached out 

to Michigan State University, the best agricultural college in the 

country, 

Chairwoman STABENOW. I would agree with that. 

Ms. WIGGINS. I thought you would. 

Through their extension, they provide me with applied 

agriculturalists and farmers. They provide me with information. 

Through that kind of collaboration, we started to plan. We created 

something called the Detroit School Garden Collaborative. I 

reached out to all the partners in the city that was engaged in that, 

taught our children to plan, educated our teachers. That has been 

fundamentally important to us is educating the teachers. 

20 

We also created youth garden leaders, youth garden ambassador 

so that those products could be taken care of as they grow the gardens. When we develop our gardens, we insisted that three garden 

beds be used for items to go into the school meals program. 

My director of operations, Teresa Romeris, created something 

called the stop lights outlet where our kids actually plant zucchini, 

yellow squash and tomatoes. They learned doing that process. They 

go out and they harvest those things. 

You wonder how kids, can reduce plate waste, you get them engaged in it. When the kids bring it in, although you cannot feed 

the whole school, you can feed the class it came from. That information then is shown to other kids and there is a sense of pride. 

One of our biggest source of pride in Detroit Public Schools is 

that we now have a local restaurant who menus the Detroit Public 

Schools stoplight salad. The message is getting out and we are getting support. 

I worked with Cleveland, visited it several times to look at their 

gardening program. But it is a commitment to new nutrition standards that made me realize that it was going to be through nutrition 

education, community involvement, student involvement that we 

were going to make this work and that is why I see the new standards as a value proposition for our Nation. 

All that stuff supports what we are trying to do to stem childhood obesity. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thanks very much. 

Before proceeding, Senator Leahy asked to put a statement in 

the record which we will do without objection and a copy of his 

book that was put together by Vermont schools working with 

USDA, the new school cuisine. 

[The following information can be found on page 46 in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman STABENOW. He reminded us for members who were 

not here when we started that the pumpkin squares that you have 

in front of you come from Vermont, and we also thank Senator 

Casey for the mushroom meat, meatballs, and the apples and so 

on. We are eating well today. 

We will now turn to Senator Johanns and then Senator Donnelly. 

Senator JOHANNS. Madam Chair, thank you and thank you for 

holding this hearing. 

Let me, if I might, start with you, Ms. Bauscher. I found your 

testimony interesting and, I think, very candid and honest about 

the challenges you are facing. 

Like probably every member in the United States Senate, I visit 

a lot of schools. We all do. It is always a great place to get an honest assessment of things, as you know. 

When I visit schools and I open it up to questions, these days, 

over the last few years as a matter of fact, one of the common criticisms I hear from kids relates to the school lunch program. It may 

be about choices. It may be about food that they do not want to eat. 

It may be about they are not getting enough to eat. That sort of 

thing. 

It seems to me that whatever we do with all of our good intentions, if we cannot sell it to kids, we are fooling ourselves because 

it will go on their plate and then it will go to the trash bin. 

21 

Here is what I worry about, I worry that we have thrown so 

much at schools that we are going to get to a point where participation goes down. Schools will back away from the program. Kids will 

back away from the program, and at the end of the day what we 

end up with is the poor kids eating the school lunch program because it is free and reduced and the rest of the kids who have the 

resources from home to do something else are going to do something else. 

Am I missing something here? Am I off base? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. You have just summarized many of the concerns 

that our members across the country have expressed. We want 

school meals to be appealing to all students. We have to feed all 

students because we do not want those students eligible for free 

and reduced meals to have any stigma attached to receiving meals. 

As I mentioned, members across the country have worked very 

hard. Many of us, I am with Betti, I was an early adopter with Jessica Shelly in Cincinnati. I made changes early and often. I cultivated community partners. 

But that is still a challenge to assure that our meals are appealing to all students. That is why I think some flexibility is important in assuring that students to continue to come to the cafeteria. 

We will continue to encourage them to make healthy choices and 

make the healthy choice the easy choice for them. But operators 

need a little bit of flexibility in order to assure that all of their students participate in the program. 

Senator JOHANNS. As each witness was testifying today, it just 

occurred to me how different the places are that you come from. 

There is nothing like Detroit in my State. I say that just simply 

because it is a bigger city. I mean it is just kind of hard to describe. 

Detroit is not like many of the communities I visit. 

Ms. Wiggins, would you agree that one of the things that we 

might be missing is the lack of flexibility between a Detroit and a 

Kearney, Nebraska? 

Ms. WIGGINS. Sir, I do understand your question. But also as the 

former food service director in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where there 

was 3 percent free and reduced, my parents had the ability to have 

us, through either organization or community engagement, to put 

items on the tray. 

I think what you are missing, please understand that school 

meals is not a welfare program. It provides direct benefits to support education for all children. 

Now, those pay children that you are worried about, I also have 

pay children but those are the children of the working poor, the 

near poor, and the soon to be poor that bring in the junk food to 

the cafeteria. Those kids whose parents cannot afford to give them 

money every day are the kids with their heads down on the cafeteria table and missing lunch. 

Those are the kids now that I have been able to embrace in CEP 

or community eligibility. Community eligibility allowed me to bring 

more revenue into my program so that I could support the new nutrition standards. 

I had a per capita spending, because I am also a businessperson, 

I had a per capita spending of $1.98 per kid. With CEP my participation went up 16 percent and I had more money available to me. 

22 

Now, my per capita spending is around three dollars because that 

is the flat reimbursement. 

We have to be savvy about what we do. In Ann Arbor, yes, I had 

to make food that was more a peeling. But it did not cause me any 

difficulty. In Detroit, I do not know if you heard my testimony, I 

am not concerned about the kids on the urban street corners. We 

do a real good job in taking care of them. 

I am concerned about the kids in Southfield where the poverty 

rate is about 40 percent. I am concerned about those kids. That is 

the reason we need to make sure that you be authorized this program so we can take care all of the children. 

Detroit is not any unique and different than the number of poor 

children in Appalachia, West Virginia, or Kentucky or out West on 

the Native American reservations. They are small Detroits and 

they had the same problems. Mine is just magnified because I am 

bigger. 

But the programs and legislation that is before you right now, 

the real authorization is not only a good start, it is a necessary 

start so we can talk about feeding all children. 

Senator JOHANNS. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. 

Senator Donnelly. 

Senator DONNELLY. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. Wiggins, when you have conferences, when all of you have 

conferences, one of the things that has bothered me so much is the 

dramatic increase in type II diabetes that we see. 

Is that a subject that comes up at your conferences as to how 

your efforts can help to stem the tide on that. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Senator, I appreciate that question. That is a subject that comes up in our district and was one of the reasons 

through the USDA wellness policy we have been able to implement 

new mill standards. When you see a six-year-old with type II diabetes or people grossly overweight, we know that we have to do something. 

Our educational leaders are just as concerned as I am as a nutritional leader and they support these new nutrition standards. It is 

not just confined to our school lunch ladies. It is really an issue 

that we all need to be concerned about. 

Senator DONNELLY. I would think that is a subject that as you 

look at it, the direct action of your work can change the impact on 

the health of our children. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Well, I agree with you, I mean I got truly interested when the Secretary of the Army came before this body and 

talked about how our kids were so grossly obese and I was shaking 

my head. 

Then that motivated me more than ever to work hard to implement the new nutrition standards. You have to be a savvy food 

service director. You have got to use all the tools. USDA, this government provides us with a lot of tools. 10 percent of my food 

comes from USDA commodities. 

Senator DONNELLY. My friend, Senator Heitkamp, who is here, 

had to go preside over the Senate. One of the concerns she has is 

about equipment needs, that as you look at the equipment you 

have and the equipment that you are going to need, are there 

23 

things that will help you in that process? I see Dr. Wilson shaking 

your head. 

Are there things we can do to help with equipment needs? 

Dr. WILSON. Well, I will just very briefly tell you in what we do 

across the country as well as in the training even with equipment 

and how to use different equipment that definitely is an issue. 

There are a lot of infrastructures in schools that do not have coolers and freezers and schools that were built without kitchens. 

As people begin to progress into this different sort of mode in 

feeding children in our school systems, updating equipment, getting 

new equipment is definitely a need out there. We used to have 

equipment grants years ago when I first started in the business 

and it was wonderful because you could get some really nice pieces 

of equipment. The equipment now can be universal. You can use 

it to steam, bake, roast, all in one piece of equipment. That is definitely a need in the country. 

Senator DONNELLY. Mr. Clements, one of the things you do is try 

to leverage the purchasing power of smaller districts as well and 

try to get the best deal for everybody. 

How do you bring in your local farming groups? I am from Indiana and I think one of the most, one of the proudest moments for 

our farmers is when they see their products used in their town to 

serve meals to their kid. 

How do you bring that together? Do you need to put our local 

farmers in like purchasing groups or, I mean, groups that you buy 

from? What makes it easy for you to try to bring in as local as possible? 

Mr. CLEMENTS. We have had some biggest success with local 

farmers. We were very happy with that. We have relied very 

strongly on the Mississippi Department of Agriculture to connect 

us with local farmers and then to use the Department of Defense 

program to actually purchase through the DOD program to purchase from them. 

There are some challenges there. We have many small farmers 

who struggle sometimes with the cost of certifications to show that 

their food is safe for a verbal population. 

We have very few large farmers who can meet those requirements very easily. The irony of it has been, as we have seen farmers markets increase in Mississippi, it has actually pulled programs 

away from the school lunch program because often they can get a 

better price there. It is a struggle every year to find the products 

that will come in that we can afford on the program with our limited reimbursement but our State Ag department has been very 

helpful with that. 

Senator DONNELLY. Well, I would think within the confines obviously of safety, the more options we also provide our Ag community 

with farmers markets, other places that they can send their 

produce to. As I said, in talking with farmers one of their great moments of pride is when they see their own stuff in their own high 

school or their own middle school making their own kids safe and 

healthy. 

Thank you all for your efforts on this and we really appreciate 

it to. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

24 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much. 

At this point, I am asking Senator Gillibrand to take over as 

chair. I need to go to the floor to speak on a bill we are going to 

be voting on in a moment. I will vote and then come right back. 

At this point we have Senator Hoeven who is next and I will turn 

the chair over to Senator Gillibrand. 

So thank you. 

Senator HOEVEN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

This Committee is working on reauthorization of the Healthy 

School Lunch Program. We all want our kids to be healthy and 

have nutritious meals, but there is a disagreement on the flexibility 

that is needed for the school lunch program. 

I want to use the whole-grain requirements as an example. July 

1, the new requirement kicked, and that provides that for all cereal 

grain foods that are served, they have to be 100 percent wholegrain products. We are talking all bread products, crackers, pizza 

crust, taco shells, anything you could think of that is made with 

grains. It has to be 100 percent. 

Ms. Bauscher, I am going to start with you. Again, I mean, you 

represent the 55,000 school nutritionists that actually have to deliver this program on the ground, not somebody here in Washington, DC, that can say in a theoretical world here is the perfect 

and that is what we want but somebody that has to deliver it every 

day to those children and deliver something that they will eat. 

So again, address the flexibility issue. Then I am going to come 

back and I have a question for each one of our panelists. 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Related to the whole-grain requirement, you are 

right, that effective July 1, 100 percent of our grains have to be 

whole-grain rich meaning that they are at least 51 percent wholegrain. 

All of us are there at 50 percent, and many of us are beyond 

that. I will be at 100 percent, although there are some new items 

that my students will be trying this semester and I hope that they 

like them. 

Across the country, there seems to be that single item in most 

regions that some school food authorities have had a difficult time 

finding a product that is acceptable to their kids. Tortillas in the 

Southwest. Biscuits and grits in the South. Bagels in the Northeast. 

So again, I think most districts would not have any trouble probably even getting the 90 percent if there was at least an exemption 

for that culturally significant bread grain item that they like. 

Again, our manufacturers have stepped up and really produced 

some great items. Pasta, for example, whole-grain pasta has not 

been a problem in my district. My kids are coming around on the 

biscuits finally. But again, school food service directors have a hard 

time sometimes accessing the products that their students like 

through their current distribution. 

Senator HOEVEN. All right. What I want to ask each of the panelists. Is it not reasonable then to allow some of these kinds of exemptions and flexibility, for example, for the whole grains requirement? 

If your answer is, no, if you are not willing to allow us to put 

in that kind of flexibility in the law, then are you going to commit 

25 

to make sure that you have 100 percent whole-grain products for 

every single lunch you have for the next year and beyond? 

I would like to start with Ms. Wiggins. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Well, sir, as a card-carrying member of the School 

Attrition Association and having my president here still makes me 

very proud. One of the things that you have not talked about and 

some of the people that maybe you should have at this table are 

the manufacturers who have worked very hard in formulating 

those whole-grain products. Over the last three years they did like 

me. They did not wait. They started right away. 

When I talked to them at the school show last week, one of the 

things they said is that they support us maintaining these standards because if they have to wait and go back and reformulate that 

product again or change the standard again, it is going to cost me 

money. 

Yes, I am committed to it. I have the whole-grain pasta and the 

biscuits because even though I am from Detroit, we have that 

southern feeling in Detroit. We eat all of those kind of products. 

Senator HOEVEN. You think it is reasonable and 100 percent of 

all grain products that you have for all your lunches for the next 

year will meet that requirement. I just want to know. 

Ms. WIGGINS. The answer is yes. 

Senator HOEVEN. There should be no flexibility. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Sir, flexibility is all relative sometimes. The USDA 

is very flexible. 

Senator HOEVEN. I am just asking, what about an exception right 

here for a school that is having trouble meeting that requirement 

should there not be some flexibility to allow them to say, look, we 

cannot get the whole-grain pasta so we may not be able to serve 

a whole-grain product 100 percent of the time. 

Should we have that flexibility or not in the program? I am using 

that as a specific example. I want to give everyone a chance to answer it. I have got to ask for kind of a short response. 

Ms. WIGGINS. Okay. If it is reasonable, yes, sir. 

Senator HOEVEN. Thank you. 

Mr. CLEMENTS. Speaking for our bid service administrators, we 

have just had our annual conference for MDE and speaking also 

from the person collective side, we would be happy to see some 

flexibility there. 

I think a good example is we had an official from USDA with us 

recently telling us about this great whole-grain biscuit they had 

and they later realized that, oops, it was actually a carryover from 

last year. It was really the white biscuits. 

While we do have an acceptable product on our bid, we worry 

about participation next year because it just does not have the 

same taste, texture, feel that the regular white products do. We 

would support some flexibilities, yes, sir. 

Senator HOEVEN. Thank you. 

Ms. Bauscher, I think you already answered affirmatively so unless you had something else. 

Dr. Wilson. 

Dr. WILSON. I think there is some miscommunication because we 

just got information from USDA for our training that whole-grain 

26 

rich means it is 50 percent whole-grain and the rest is enriched 

and there is this information out there—— 

Senator HOEVEN. But 100 percent of what you serve has to be 

at least at that threshold. I think we are clear on that. 

Dr. WILSON. Yes. 

Senator HOEVEN. Thank you. 

Dr. WILSON. There is pasta flexibility right now. The memo did 

go out. There is flexibility on pasta. 

Senator HOEVEN. Only for pasta? 

Dr. WILSON. Correct. There is also the ability for you, for instance, I am from Wisconsin but I live in Mississippi. They always 

tell me, Katie, you better fix that grit thing because we do not 

want to serve whole-grain grits. 

There is the ability to use grits in the program but are not counted toward the green product. 

Senator HOEVEN. You think there should be flexibility or you 

should have a rule, a 100 percent and that is it? That is what I 

am driving at, Doctor. 

Dr. WILSON. From the scientific standpoint and from the nutritional standpoint, I would say we need to go with 100 percent 

whole grains. 

Senator HOEVEN. No exceptions? 

Dr. WILSON. Right. 

Senator HOEVEN. Thank you, doctor. 

Dr. WILSON. Thank you. 

Senator HOEVEN. Doctor, then you would also commit to have a 

100 percent grain products at least 50 percent whole-grains in all 

your lunches no matter where you go, no matter where you eat, no 

matter what restaurant for the next year and you do not see that 

as a hardship in any way, shape or form? 

Dr. WILSON. No. 

Senator HOEVEN. Because you believe there should be no exceptions. 

Dr. WILSON. I was doing it in Wisconsin four years ago. There 

were whole-grain products then. 

Senator HOEVEN. Thank you, Doctor. 

Mr. Muir. 

Mr. MUIR. This is a little bit out of my area of expertise, which 

is fresh fruits and vegetables. However, I do have some experience 

here in that several of my school districts came to me two years 

ago and said we cannot find whole-grain flour through our normal 

grocery suppliers. Will you find it for us? 

We found it for them and deliver it to those school districts now 

and have been for two school years. They are proactive and after 

it. 

We look at these standards perhaps from the wrong perspective 

that they are a maximum. These standards are really the minimum requirement that we all should be meeting if we want to 

solve the obesity problem. Therefore, I think we ought to maintain 

the standard and we need to redouble our efforts to work with 

those school districts that are struggling with the whole grains. 

Senator HOEVEN. Allow reasonable exceptions or not? 

Mr. MUIR. I would say let us stay the course. 

Senator HOEVEN. So no exceptions? 

27 

Mr. MUIR. No exceptions. 

Senator HOEVEN. All right. Thank you, Mr. Muir, and again, you 

feel that you could accomplish the same thing and will over the 

next year. 100 percent of the grain products you eat will be at least 

50 percent whole grains. 

Mr. MUIR. Yes. 

Senator HOEVEN. Okay. Thank you. 

Thanks to all the panelists. I appreciate you being here. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. [Presiding] Thank you. 

Thank you, Ranking Member Cochran, for hosting this hearing. 

I am really worried about the obesity epidemic. I am really worried about it. The food we serve to the 31 million students who participate in school lunch programs is an important investment in the 

future of our country. I think this discussion is invaluable. 

Obesity statistics are staggering. One in three kids in our country are now obese or overweight. Just think about that for a 

minute. One in three kids. That is an extraordinarily high number. 

We have schools, in preschools and kindergartens in New York 

State where 20 percent of the children entering kindergarten are 

obese. 

We have an issue about lack of information, lack of understanding, lack of nutrition standards, access to healthy foods that 

we have talked about in this Committee for a while. I think that 

is why this debate is so important. 

According to the American Heart Association, obesity in adolescents costs our country $254 billion a year. $208 billion is lost in 

productivity, $46 billion in direct medical costs. 

We also have staggering hunger in our country. One in five kids 

lives in households that struggle to put food on the table. A recent 

survey shows that 73 percent of teachers report having students 

coming to school hungry. 

For these kids the hot meal they get at school might be the only 

food they eat that day. We need to invest in these kids by investing 

in the food they eat. The $2.92 that we currently invest in these 

free school meals is not enough. After labor and utility costs are 

paid, only about a dollar is invested in actual food. 

The Institute of medicine has reported that in order for these 

school lunches to be nutritious, including adequate fruits and vegetables, low-fat dairy and whole grains we need to invest an additional $.35 per meal. I am hoping that the members of this Committee will join me in fighting for this. 

I wish Senator Hoeven did not leave. Of course, kids like nonwhole grains. Yes, that is what they prefer. They like sugar even 

more. If you give your child a choice, would you like to have sugar 

for lunch or would you like to have fruit and vegetables, they are 

going to pick sugar. It is what they like. Their taste buds loved it. 

But we have to be the adults in the room. You just do not give 

kids the foods they want. You have to give them and teach them 

how to eat well for their whole lives and that takes leadership, it 

takes determination and it takes creativity. 

I love the fact that you told your school district, pick three colors 

every day. My children when I was teaching them about nutrition 

when they were four, five, and six, that is how we did it. How 

many colors can you put on your plate? They loved that. 

28 

Because I fed my children steamed vegetables as children, they 

only like steamed vegetables. They do not want butter on it. They 

do not want cream. They do not want cheese on it. They want 

steamed vegetables. 

They have been eating fruit at every meal since they were babies. My kids as a consequence because they are given, introduced 

healthy foods at every meal, they prefer healthy foods. 

For a lot of these kids, they are not getting healthy foods at 

home. They are getting refined carbohydrates at every meal. A typical meal will be a burger and fries. Of course, they prefer burger 

and fries. That is what they have been fed since they were little. 

We have to do more. I feel that, yes, to Senator Hoeven, it is easy 

to have flexibility. People like the grits like they like the grits that 

they have had since they were a kid. But let us not serve refined 

foods at lunch. Let us actually push them to eat something healthy 

that makes them healthy and reach their full potential. 

When a kid is obese, he does not reach his full potential. He cannot concentrate in class. He is often made fun of. He has low selfesteem. He does not reach his full potential. She does not reach her 

full potential. 

I am grateful that all of you have thought outside the box figuring out how to solve these problems, meet nutrition standards. 

I do not want to back off these nutrition standards. Let us figure 

it out. We can figure it out. 

I am worried about SNA’s goal to roll back requirements for 

schools to serve healthier foods. 

Ms. Bauscher, is that a true statement, is that their goal? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Our goal is not to roll back the requirements. 

Again, we fully support the increased quantities and varieties of 

fruits and vegetables that have to be offered to our students and 

many of us, all of us are encouraging students to select fruits and 

vegetables by preparing them in attractive ways and making a 

wide variety of available. 

We also support at least 50 percent of the grains being wholegrain or maybe somewhere in between 50 and 100. But again you 

said it. Our students are not seeing some of these foods outside of 

school. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Correct. 

Ms. BAUSCHER. We also have students that go through the line 

that take it because they have to and then do not eat it. If they 

do not eat, they are going to go home and maybe not have a meal 

and still be hungry. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Kids will eat if they are hungry. I do not 

agree, if my son got to choose his lunch, he would choose candy and 

cookies. He would choose it. That is what he would choose. But by 

the time it is lunch time, he is so hungry he will eat what I put 

on his plate. 

I do not agree that kids who are hungry do not eat. I do not 

agree. A hungry kid will take an apple. A hungry kid will take 

some pasta, will take some vegetables. Just because it is not their 

favorite or tastes funny, they are going to eat it. If you offer lowquality food, they will prefer low-quality food. It tastes better. 

Sugar, salt tastes great. 

29 

Ms. BAUSCHER. We are not offering low-quality food. We are 

meeting the calorie requirements. We have eliminated trans fat. 

We are meeting the saturated fat requirements, and we are reducing the sodium. 

We will be on board with the target one sodium requirements 

that went into effect July 1. But it is all about allowing students 

some time to catch up. You do not turn their taste buds around on 

a dime, and we are encouraging them to take healthy choices. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Okay. I think we need more money in this 

program. Do you think we need more money in this program? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Yes. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Okay. Good. During the last reauthorization, I supported a $.35 increase in the reimbursement rate rather 

than 6 percent. 

Would this help all of you achieving your goals? 

Mr. CLEMENTS. Yes. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. All of you here, yes? 

[Nodding heads in the affirmative.] 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Okay. I would like you to help us do that 

because you are the advocates. You are the experts. We have to inform Congress that $2.92 is not enough and whole foods, whole 

fruit, whole vegetables can be affordable as we increase access. 

But I can tell you, when you have a low-quality vegetable, I 

mean, how many people would prefer steamed green beans over 

canned green beans? Everyone. There is nobody who prefers 

canned green beans over steamed green beans. They are 1 billion 

times more tasty and delicious in their whole form. 

Let us focus on how we get the fresh whole fruits, whole vegetables and it costs a little more. It is cheaper to serve a chicken nugget. But if we could have roasted chicken or grilled chicken, it is 

more healthy. 

It does cost a little bit more. I urge you to please help us achieve 

that goal by getting us to inform Congress how important a little 

bit of money, and I had a lot of other questions about equipment 

that I will submit for the record. 

But I agree there is a grant program that we had in the past. 

That I would like to reinstitute. I had a bill to do exactly that. It 

is not a lot of money. $35 Million in grants so that school districts 

can apply. So they can have the equipment they need to actually 

serve these fresh fruits and vegetables and whole grains and lean 

meats. 

I think we can agree on that too. It is not a lot of money. If you 

go back to the cost, Senator Thune, you did not hear my earlier 

statement but the cost would be in the 200s of billions a year in 

missed opportunity and less performing, a huge drain on the economy. I think the small amounts of investment has enormous returns on term. 

Senator Boozman. 

Senator BOOZMAN. Thank you very much. I appreciate you all 

being here and appreciate the hard work. I was on the school board 

for seven years and I understand how difficult it is for those of you 

who are in the trenches. 

Some of you have figured this out. We have a problem though because the vast majority of your colleagues have not figured it out 

30 

and I have visited with a bunch of people that—lunch personnel 

over the past year and they are very frustrated. 

The things that I hear about are the waste, the expense, fear of 

unfunded mandate which we have already and for that to grow, 

and then also kids being hungry. 

So again, like I said, it is great that you all have it figured out 

to some extent but a bunch of your colleagues have not and again 

are very, very frustrated. 

Mr. Muir, as Ms. Bauscher mentioned in our testimony, we know 

the price of fruits and vegetables is subject to drought, floods, and 

fluctuations in transportation costs based on the growing season. 

How do you cope with the variability? How do you handle the 

supply of fresh fruits and vegetables when they are out of season? 

Mr. MUIR. We work with our school districts in trying to help 

them create an annual calendar of the commodities they are going 

to serve during certain periods of time. 

We steer them away from things we already know like when a 

production cycle is gapping and the price of that product will be 

going up. On many occasions if there is a weather event with a 

product, a fresh fruit or vegetable and the price spikes, we immediately notify our school districts that, hey, I think we need to 

make a substitution here. 

Under the DOD fresh program, when our prices are posted a 

week in advance, it is very clear that most of the school districts 

are savvy to that; and when they see a spike in price, they call us 

and they move away for a substitute product. 

We are not spending $20 for something that is normally eight 

dollars. We try to do that with all of our school districts. 

Senator BOOZMAN. Very good. I know that your firm sources 

fresh and specialty products from around the world for your customers. How do you work with the school food authorities to comply with the National School Lunch Act buy American provision 

that requires the purchase of domestically grown and processed 

foods to the maximum extent possible? 

Mr. MUIR. Under the system that the DOD fresh has which is 

a complete online system that is called Favors, we are not allowed 

to post non-domestic items on that list. It is very regulated. It is 

difficult for them to make a mistake there. I think we can provide 

them a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables all domestic. 

Sometimes not all year but we can do it during the school year. 

Senator BOOZMAN. Very good. Thank you. 

Ms. Wiggins and whoever would like to answer. Some of you 

have been doing this for a while. Are you seeing any reduction in 

obesity in your children? 

Ms. WIGGINS. Yes, you are absolutely right I have been doing it 

for a while. But what I also noticed, I see some better eating habits. One of the things that we also need to consider is we need to 

put exercise and gym and some of the other things that burn calories because calorie in, if you do not put them out you are going 

to get overweight. 

But the better eating habits where kids, I really get impressed 

when my kids are opting now for a fresh apple as opposed to potato 

chips. We are seeing better eating habits. 

31 

Do I have any empirical evidence? No, but I can tell you this 

plate waste that everybody is talking about I have not experienced 

it that much in Detroit. 

There are other things in this reauthorization of the Healthy and 

Hunger Free Act that is going to help us help the people who are 

responsible, the new training requirements. 

Sir, in school districts, the level of education sophistication 

among the people who are delivering the program are not equal. 

I have a business background. I understand. I run a small business. But when you get in these small districts, people do not have 

these skills and the ability to necessarily manipulate their menus 

to do things. 

I respect in this authorization of 2010, the whole thing about 

education, the whole thing about equipment, the support that you 

gave us. 

Senator BOOZMAN. Thank you. I have to let Senator Thune go. 

But again, do not misunderstand. I am very supportive of the program but we do have a problem with many of your colleagues not 

understanding it, being frustrated. It has got to be fixed, and I 

think the program has to be tweaked to make it as effective. 

The comments you made, Ms. Wiggins, are excellent in the sense 

that the other thing that we cannot do is just to focus on this. This 

is not the only answer. You know, you mentioned the exercise and 

things like that. That has got to be a huge part of it also. 

Thank you very much for being here. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Senator Thune. 

Senator THUNE. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I appreciate 

all of you making time. Thank you for sharing your insights. 

This issue is about standards. I think it is a really important 

issue. It is one that I think most of us hear a lot about, standards 

that in some cases are leading to food being not eaten, tossed aside, 

also standards that are creating a significant financial burden on 

school systems as well. 

I have heard from school administrators in my State of South 

Dakota who tell me that the higher cost of food needed to meet the 

USDA standards has resulted in financial loss and even in the release of school employees just so that the school can meet its financial obligations. 

As we look at this issue I think we have to remember that there 

is not any federal law, regulation, or policy that should be considered a gold standard and not to be changed. I think the responsibility of this Committee as we discuss the reauthorization of the 

child nutrition laws is to approach this important mission with 

open minds and with a spirit of cooperation and not be unduly influenced by the position of those who support current policies and 

standards and who are not open to meaningful change. 

I want to direct a question, if I might, to you, Ms. Bauscher, and 

that has to do with an issue that is a little bit specific to my State 

of South Dakota but I am sure shared by others around the country, because I have heard from students, parents, school administrators, child nutrition directors, food service managers about the 

impact these standards are having. 

32 

But there is this particular letter that I would like to talk about 

and that is one I received from 200 students who tend the Pierre 

Learning Center in Pierre, South Dakota. 

They want to be able to have traditional foods that are part of 

their culture served once a month in the school cafeteria but because of the inflexibility of the new nutritional standards, they are 

not able to do that. 

My question is how can we work in this reauthorization to ensure students are receiving healthy nutritious meals while at the 

same time allowing flexibility to meet these types of requests. I 

would say especially in areas in Indian country and areas that I 

represent and other members as well represent around the country. 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Well, in school districts around the country, we 

are increasingly serving a very diverse student population. In my 

own district, there are over 120 languages spoken. The importance 

of their own eating heritage is very important for them and we look 

for ways to incorporate those foods. 

Again, I would be hopeful that during the 2015 reauthorization 

we would also look at that and include reasonable flexibility that 

would allow students to enjoy the foods of their culture in the 

school meal program. 

Senator THUNE. Thank you. Dr. Wilson, do you believe schools 

are getting consistent and adequate amounts and types of technical 

assistance in order to successfully implement and meet the current 

requirements? 

Dr. WILSON. Well, I think we are just beginning with technical 

assistance. Like I said, the resources have been out there for a long 

time. 

I think what has happened is we probably put the cart before the 

horse because, as Ms. Wiggins mentioned, that in some states there 

is absolutely no requirement for your educational level to run a 

school nutrition program. 

In some states, it is just up to the local district who should be 

running the program irregardless of the size of the program. I 

know of some districts that are really in trouble but part of the 

problem is not that they do not want to it is that the person leading the program is not able to. 

The whole issue of professional standards is really, really important because you can make all the rules you want; but if you do 

not understand how to do them, then that does not help. 

But helping with professional standards and having people, and 

it is too bad we have to require it but obviously in some districts 

they do not do it. I know that I have worked in a very small rural 

district, only 1700 kids. 

Back in 1990, they were throwing away 18 gallons of milk a day 

in the elementary school. We decided to do something about that 

and to be proactive. It was not because of the kind of food we were 

serving. It was the milk they were dumping in a bucket to throw 

away, and that was back in the early 1990s. So that is nothing 

new. 

There has got to be proactive ways to deal with food waste and 

find out why is it being wasted. We switched in our district and 

we did recess before lunch. It had a huge impact on food waste. 

33 

Huge. Kids were not worried about whether they were going to go 

out and get the soccer ball or not. 

I think there are lots of anecdotal things going around as to the 

blame as to why things are happening in the school lunch program, 

but I do not think we have done any good digging as to what really 

is occurring. 

As far as professional standards is concerned, we do need to have 

an opportunity for people to be educated. Many people say, well, 

the small districts cannot do it. 

Well, in the nursing home situation in this country, you are required to have a registered dietitian oversee your program. Now, 

I am not saying every school district needs a registered dietitian. 

But the very small nursing homes in every rural county in this 

country have to have somebody that comes in, either once a week 

or once every other week that does some oversight for them, helps 

them with menu planning, helps them with purchasing. 

Those are the kinds of models that are working very well for 

nursing homes. There is a way. In my district of 1700, we increased 

the participation. We put a fund balance in place. My superintendent loved it because of the things that we did, and one of the 

things that was back in the 1990s was putting better standards in 

place because I come from a nutrition background. 

It is doable, but we are just beginning this change and I think 

it is going to take up few years for this to really see the outcome 

of us moving forward with this. 

Senator THUNE. Quickly, Ms. Wiggins, anything to add to that? 

Ms. WIGGINS. I am very sensitive to ethnic preferences among 

children. I am from Detroit; and contrary to popular belief, I have 

a large Middle Eastern, I have a large Hispanic, and a few Lithuanians here and there but African-Americans as well. 

We do serve ethnic foods. But you cannot serve them healthy. I 

will just give you an example. Black people really love collard 

greens and a lot of fat. But now we have changed it since we knew 

how much it impacted our health, thanks to diabetes and overweight, that now we can enjoy, my kids on soul day, we have blackeyed peas, collard greens, sweet potatoes, and corn bread but they 

are all within the guidelines of the USDA. 

It is not like mom’s but it is an awareness that food can be eaten. 

Senator THUNE. Good. Thank you. 

Madame Chairman, I guess we have a vote on so thank you and 

thanks to all of you for being here. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. [Presiding] Thank you very much. 

I appreciate Senator Gillibrand chairing the meeting while I did, 

in fact, go speak and vote. I know we have Senator Klobuchar coming back wanting to ask some questions. I believe Senator Gillibrand wants to ask a second round as well. 

Let me proceed. There are so many different pieces to this and 

we need all of your input and help this week to move forward in 

resolving challenges and supporting schools and making sure that 

children get what they need. 

I mentioned in the first round but did not have a chance to get 

into it, Ms. Bauscher, the concern that I have heard from a lot of 

food service directors about the amount of time children have to 

eat. 

34 

In fact, I have heard from students that by the time they get to 

the line, they have five minutes or whatever so they take a couple 

of bites and the food goes in the trash because they do not have 

enough time. 

I know this gets into a broader question of the school districts 

and how we defined lunch and so on. But I wonder if you could tell 

us a little bit more about this issue of time and the impact on it 

and whether or not SNA is engaging school boards or local leaders 

to find solutions to this? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. Time to eat school lunch is a serious concern. In 

my own district as school administrators are pressured to increase 

test scores, they shave minutes off of the school lunch period in 

order to increase the instructional time. 

Again, the staff at each location is based on the number of meals 

served at that location. I do not just have the ability to add two 

or three people so I can increase the points of service and serves 

them quickly. 

We are looking at ways that we can increase the number of students we serve and decrease the amount of time that they spend 

in mind. It is an issue that we have discussed in the association 

and that we do address in conferences and webinars and other 

types of material. 

But it is really a decision we can have some influence on and try 

to educate school administrators about the importance of time to 

eat lunch, but an area, of course, over which we have no immediate 

impact. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. I appreciate that. We would like very 

much to work with you on options. I know there is some desire or 

some areas that have done or are talking about pilots where children are even eating breakfast in the classroom, other options and 

so on. 

We have some things that hopefully we can do to help support 

you and the tools that relate to that because I think that really is 

a very important issue for students. 

Also let me just ask you, because we hear so many different 

things depending on the school, depending on the state and so on. 

I know in Kentucky, your home State, that Kentucky was nearly 

100 percent compliant with all these standards last year. I want 

to congratulate you as being an early adapter in your school and 

the work that you have done. 

When we look across a state like Kentucky with a lot of rural 

communities and so on we see Jack Miniard in Harlan County or 

Mary Koon in Hardin County or Lisa Simms in Daviess County 

talking about their successes in influencing the standards and they 

have indicated they do not see challenges or would not ask for a 

waiver and so on. 

Yet we hear different things in different schools about what is 

happening. I am wondering what is different in these schools from 

other schools that we are hearing about and how do we help the 

schools that are having challenges but also recognizing the schools 

that are saying they are moving ahead? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. A lot of it comes down to the support staff in the 

school nutrition program. I am very fortunate that I have a number 

35 

of people on my staff that are assigned specific duties related to our 

school meal program. 

I can tell you that since the Healthy, Hunger Free Kids Act went 

into effect, I have had to take one key position, the coordinator of 

food procurement and menu planning and actually split that into 

two positions. 

I think Mr. Clements alluded to the complexity of the requirements. So that I have one person who now concentrates on food 

procurement and writing the specifications and assuring that students have an opportunity to sample new product. I have another 

person that works on the menu planning and does all of that and 

takes care of special dietary needs. 

That points to the complexity of some of this and I think more 

districts are better equipped to handle that. Katie alluded to the 

fact that not all school nutrition directors may be equipped with 

the skills necessary to handle the many changes that have occurred 

and the complexity of those changes. 

I will tell you a story. I attended required food service director 

training in Frankfurt not long ago. Small groups, and there was a 

new director there. He has been a school food service director just 

two years and he formerly worked at the State Department and he 

told us, I am so overwhelmed because he is trying to do everything 

himself. I focus on one thing this year and I will focus on another 

thing next year. 

Again, people are feeling overwhelmed in terms of trying to handle all of the changes because there have been a lot of changes in 

a relatively short period of time for many of us. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you. It sounds like it would be 

helpful if we could make sure that you have the resources you need 

as well so you were not having to pick. 

Finally, and then I will turn it over to Senator Klobuchar. Let 

me just ask, Mr. Clements, and again congratulations on what you 

have been doing in Mississippi, again, very different than Detroit 

in Kentucky and Utah, difference, Wisconsin certainly. 

But we are seeing positive things being addressed. I know that 

Mississippi has seen a decline in childhood obesity and congratulations because I know that your work on healthier school meals has 

really made a difference in children’s lives, literally them living 

longer. We should feel very good about that. 

You have implemented the nutrition standards for competitive 

foods well before the national policies were developed. I wonder if 

you could talk about the successes and challenges you have had on 

the state competitive food standards and the health benefits that 

you have seen as a result of the changes. 

Mr. CLEMENTS. We have been very fortunate in Mississippi in 

many respects. We have a legislature and a State Board of Education who are both very cognizant of the challenges that we have 

with obesity in particular in our State. 

As far back as the 1980s, they implemented an aggressive competitive food rule policy, nothing could be sold on school an hour 

before any meal service. That was designed to protect the school 

lunch program and the school breakfast program. 

Beyond that, we do not have what most schools have as far a al 

carte sales. Students must pick up a complete reimbursement meal 

36 

to purchase any extra foods. Some of those pieces have been in 

place for many years. 

Then really in 2007 our State legislature and our State Board of 

Education addressed competitive foods again. We put in very stringent vending policies that actually are closely aligned to the new 

Smart Snacks rules. 

Our schools did see some loss of revenue there but we have also 

seen some very good things going on with vending. We have seen 

very good compliance. It took them a little while to get on board. 

There was a transition period but we have been very fortunate. 

Our schools have adopted those and they have accepted them 

greatly. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thanks very much. 

Senator Klobuchar. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair, 

and thank you. I am sorry I had something else this morning and 

I really appreciate that the hearing is still going on. 

I think this is something that is really important to all of us. I 

know it is something you are passionate about. It is something we 

care a lot about in our State and I supported the Healthy, HungerFree Kids Act in 2010 when it passed on a bipartisan basis to overwhelming support. 

Our schools are a critical partner in this effort and we have 

made some progress. We have not been able to say that for a few 

years but we have made some progress in at least stabilizing the 

rate of childhood obesity in part because of the reforms that have 

been enacted. 

I think we all know that there is work to be done. We know it 

has been acknowledged up here that change is not easy and that 

preventing childhood obesity will not happen overnight. 

I do not think we should be rolling back or postponing the standards right now but I think it is always good to hear what people 

have to say. Also coming from an Ag state and heading to my farm 

fest at the beginning of August here, I wanted to talk a little bit 

about the issue which I know the has been involved in all of purchasing local and regional Ag products for school meal programs, 

the Farm to School Program. 

I think it is a good bridge between our Nation’s farmers and our 

children. According to the USDA Farm to School census data, Minnesota school districts support spending 12 percent of their school 

food budgets on local products. 

Could you provide maybe, Ms. Wiggins, some insight into how 

you see this practice as a long-term strategy to support kids and 

also the agriculture community? 

Ms. WIGGINS. I am happy to report the Detroit Public Schools 

spent 22 and a half percent of our produce dollars on Michigangrown produce. 

I think that long-term strategy means that we have to develop 

some supply chain. A little rural school, I have to tell my story. I 

am from a little farming town in Michigan, called Whittaker. I 

went there for a meeting and I know the local farmers. 

They said, well, Betti, you are in Detroit now. I want to get my 

food into your schools and I said, no, I cannot. Why? I need one 

school I said I got 131. 

37 

The way that we handle, so I had to disappoint people I grew up 

with. But the way that we handle getting fresh fruits and vegetables into our school at the local level is we are going to have to develop some supply chains. We are going to have to develop some 

cooperatives. 

One of the things that the State of Michigan does when you talk 

about how we can help one another, we have something called an 

alternate agreement whereby I can provide services to small school 

districts, one and two that do not have the capability or the education or the equipment or even the time that I provide my services 

and I put those districts in with the Detroit Public Schools. 

When the Detroit Public School kids get that $.14 apple that our 

Senator is always proud to talk about, if those small schools were 

not with me, that Apple would cost them $.40. The ability to collaborate and cooperate is what is going to extend this program and 

allow us to add those important products. 

Senator Klobuchar, I just laugh. St. Paul, the director of St. Paul 

and the director of Minneapolis yesterday that we were in a meeting trying to form a collaborative so that we could create a larger 

market basket so that we could go out on the market and appear 

more attractive. 

Manufacturers, they are not giving us food, and I do not have a 

problem with that. But if what we can do as a collaborative will 

ensure that my farmers in Michigan and Minnesota do not have to 

plow under products that my kids could eat, that we consider ourselves successful. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Again one other thing that we did, or our 

agriculture extension service at the University of Minnesota did a 

study and it did not surprise me because we have seen this with 

global products in general. 

It is why our Red Wing shoes is doing great. People are really 

interested in being part of something that is local. What we found 

in the study at the University of Minnesota that there was a 3– 

16 percent increase in school meal participation when there was a 

farm to school program because I think and I know there has been 

supply chain issues. 

I have heard about some of this but I do think we have to remember if we can work this out it actually not only is good for the 

kids it actually increases their interests and their family’s interest 

in being part of this because they see it as part of the local community. 

I will just ask one more question here with my time here of you, 

Ms. Bauscher. In your testimony and I know here earlier you 

talked about school districts that have had trouble finding acceptable foods that can meet the new whole-grain rich standards. 

How many schools have taken advantage of a two-year flexibility 

provided by USDA on whole grains rich food in order to allow time 

for the industry to develop workable products? 

Ms. BAUSCHER. I do not have an answer to that question. I know 

in talking to colleagues from around the country as recently as last 

week in Boston, I have talked to districts who intend to apply for 

the waiver and I have talked to districts that do not have a need 

for the waiver, including my own. 

38 

Sometimes it can be districts that are adjacent to one another. 

I do not know how many have actually applied. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Okay. That would be helpful to know because there is that possibility out there because I think people try 

to be as flexible as possible. 

Mr. Clements, just one more question. Outside of the new standards, how do state agencies and schools determine what products 

will be included in the vending machines and the a la carte lines? 

I worked very hard on his vending machine issue. I care a lot 

about it. After having my daughter in public school her whole life 

and watching what was in some of the vending machines that some 

of the kids who were in after-school programs like she was and 

what they were eating. What methods of evaluation have been used 

in the vending machines for the Smart Snacks Program? 

Mr. CLEMENTS. Again, back to 2007, we had policies in the State 

that were very similar to the new smart snacks. We at the state 

agency provide that service to the school food service authorities in 

that they can send us products. We make the evaluation for them 

and they do not have to have any technical skills, so to speak. 

We have that expertise at our office. We publish the list. If they 

have individual products, they can send us the information. We get 

it back to them. Of course, there are all online calculators now. If 

they want to go through, they can use those. We encourage that if 

they would like to but we are happy to provide that service to all 

of our schools. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. All right. Thank you very much. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much, Senator Klobuchar. 

Again, thank you for presiding over the Committee today, Senator Gillibrand. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and 

thank you again for holding this hearing. 

I think this is a vital issue because of the obesity rates in children and how important it is for their health and well-being to feed 

them good foods. 

I want to continue a little bit along the lines that Senator Klobuchar started. What we have done, this is for Mr. Phil Muir. Food 

hubs are increasingly popular across New York State and vary 

from not-for-profits working to bring local foods to under served 

areas to large not-for-profits serving hundreds of businesses and institutions. 

For example, New York City wholesale green market as well as 

for-profit businesses improving access through direct sales to individuals. My team works very closely with different food hub organizations and has helped to secure grants, loans, and other services 

that have advanced the hub’s mission. 

Could you speak to the importance of food hubs and how it ties 

the school nutrition in the work that you do? 

Mr. MUIR. Food hubs—an excellent question. Food hubs are playing an integral role in getting locally grown produce to schools and 

other end users. 

The big issue, of course, is that a lot of these local growers are 

what would be known as a micro-grower and not commercial. So 

therefore, they do not have the means of distribution, et cetera. 

39 

The food hubs play a critical role in getting the produce from the 

farm to the end users. 

In addition to nonprofit food hubs, sometimes they also have 

some challenges in distribution and coldchain, et cetera. Where we 

do not have a successful nonprofit in our market, food hub, but we 

have stepped in as a distributor to act as the local food hub. 

In working with our school districts, we can choose local growers 

or they can choose local growers themselves and then we act, they 

deliver to us and then we deliver out to the numerous schools rather than having a farmer in his pickup truck or whatever trying to 

deliver to 40 schools all in one day. 

They are an integral part of the success of the local food program 

and the local farm to school program, so the funding and the processes to assist those food hubs is important. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Do you have any ideas for the Committee 

on how we can expand that, because—Amy has just left—but if 

some of her challenges is actually getting access to the fresh whole 

foods, fruits and vegetables from her local farmers, what are some 

policy ideas you could offer that we could expand food hubs? 

You know, we try to use the program as aggressively as we can 

in supporting grant applications and getting access to capital. But 

do you have any thoughts about how to expand the program? 

Mr. MUIR. I do not specifically. I know that it is a big challenge 

and we need to continue to work on that. We also have to keep in 

perspective that although local foods is a good way to go, it cannot 

solve all of our problems. 

We still have to rely on the commercial sector, the commercial 

farms who can produce large quantities of product to supply our 

schools and other sources. For instance, if a large school district 

would go to a small grower and say we want to use your produce, 

they could wipe out his whole crop in one day. 

We have to put that in perspective. But I think we continue to 

work with the food hubs, working with USDA, the grant money 

and seeing if we can develop that system. It is a whole new distribution system that is new to all of us. It will take time to develop. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Yes, but it really works. When it gets implemented, it is incredible. 

Similarly, this past year USDA allocated $100 million for technical assistance and administrative funds to help meet with the 

new nutrition standards. However, more than half of the money 

has been returned to the USDA. That means that states have not 

been utilizing all the resources that were available for them. 

For example, in New York State, 46 percent of the implementation funds are not being used which equals $2.5 million. 

Dr. Wilson could you speak to what you are doing in your State 

to leverage the USDA dollars to help provide technical assistance 

to schools to meet the new nutrition standards? 

Dr. WILSON. Yes. First of all, The Institute is a national institute 

so we go nationwide and actually we are doing technical assistance 

in New York City right now. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. That is great. 

Dr. WILSON. It is coming from our budget not theirs. But that 

has been an issue. Now, there are ways for those states to contract 

40 

with us. We have had outside contracts from a number of states 

using their team nutrition money, some of their SAE funds to contract with us to do specific things in their state. 

Mississippi did it. He had some foundation money from Bower 

Foundation. We contracted in their State and did culinary training 

all over their State because Scott wanted that to be done in his 

State. 

California did the same thing where we did 10 culinary trainings 

all over the State just contracted to train trainers so that they 

could go out and train. 

Those states can use that money with us very easily and get us 

to put our experienced trainers on the ground to help them make 

sure that those standards are being met and there are all different 

topics that we offer from hands-on to online, from culinary to financial management to use those monies. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Chairwoman STABENOW. Thank you very much, and thanks to all 

of you. This is really an important snapshot I think of how the program is working across the country, the challenges that we face. 

We want to work with all of you to continue moving forward, 

build on best practices, be able to support and tackle the things 

that we are still needing to tackle to make sure that all schools are 

successful because in the bottom line we are talking about something pretty important here in terms of the health of the future of 

the country, tackling childhood obesity and adult obesity based on 

the habits that we all acquire as we are children. 

Certainly we know that change always is a little difficult but in 

this case is well worth the effort. So thank you again. We look forward to working with you on the reauthorization of the Child Nutrition Program. 

I would say to my colleagues that any additional questions for 

the record should be submitted to the Committee clerk five business days from today. That is 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday July 30 and 

the meeting is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:35 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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