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29-718 PDF 2007

S. HRG. 109–637

NOMINATIONS OF THOMAS E. HARVEY TO BE

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR CONGRESSIONAL

AND LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF

VETERANS AFFAIRS; AND PATRICK W. DUNNE

TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR POLICY

AND PLANNING, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS

AFFAIRS

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

JULY 27, 2006

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate 

(II)

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

LARRY E. CRAIG, Idaho, Chairman 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, Texas 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

JOHNNY ISAKSON, Georgia 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii, Ranking Member 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

JAMES M. JEFFORDS, (I) Vermont 

PATTY MURRAY, Washington 

BARACK OBAMA, Illinois 

KEN SALAZAR, Colorado 

LUPE WISSEL, Majority Staff Director 

BILL BREW, Minority Staff Director 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

JULY 27, 2006

SENATORS 

Page 

Craig, Hon. Larry E., Chairman, U.S. Senator from Idaho ................................. 1

Akaka, Hon. Daniel K., Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from Hawaii ............... 3

Murray, Hon. Patty, U.S. Senator from Washington ........................................... 3

Hutchison, Hon. Kay Bailey, U.S. Senator from Texas ........................................ 4

WITNESSES 

Harvey, Thomas E., nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Congressional 

and Legislative Affairs, Department of Veterans Affairs ................................. 5

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 7

Questionnaire .................................................................................................... 8

Dunne, Rear Admiral Patrick W., (Ret.), U.S. Navy, nominee to be Assistant 

Secretary for Policy and Planning, Department of Veterans Affairs ............... 14

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 14

Questionnaire .................................................................................................... 16

APPENDIX 

Goodman, Allan E., President and CEO, Institute of International Education, 

prepared statement .............................................................................................. 29

Gorman, David W., Executive Director, Disabled American Veterans, prepared statement ................................................................................................... 29

(1)

NOMINATIONS OF THOMAS E. HARVEY TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS; AND 

PATRICK W. DUNNE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR POLICY AND PLANNING, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS 

THURSDAY, JULY 27, 2006

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room SR–

418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Larry E. Craig, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Craig, Hutchison, Akaka and Murray. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LARRY E. CRAIG, CHAIRMAN, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO 

Chairman CRAIG. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. The Committee on Veterans’ Affairs is convening this morning to consider 

two nominations for important positions at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Thomas Harvey has been nominated by President 

Bush to serve as Assistant Secretary for Congressional and Legislative Affairs. Retired Admiral Patrick Dunne has been nominated by 

the President to serve as Assistant Secretary for Policy and Planning. Both of these gentlemen come before the Committee with 

vast experience in Government and strong leadership credentials. 

Mr. Harvey has spent nearly four decades serving his country in 

various areas of Government, as well as performing equally valuable work in the private sector. He served his Nation honorably in 

the U.S. Army, spending almost 3 years in Vietnam with the 173rd 

Airborne Brigade. He earned a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and was 

awarded the Purple Heart for injuries sustained during enemy battle. Mr. Harvey may look very familiar to a few of you on the Committee, that is because some of his leadership skills were acquired 

right here in this room where he served two separate stints as the 

Committee’s Staff Director and Chief Counsel under Chairman 

Alan Simpson. That must have been a very interesting duty. 

Mr. HARVEY. Very. 

Senator CRAIG. We know Alan Simpson, the former Senator from 

Wyoming. One of our colleagues, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of 

Texas, will be here to recognize Tom, so I will leave any additional 

2

comments on the rest of his impressive bio to Senator Hutchison 

when she arrives. 

Tom is also joined today by some of his family members. However, I won’t steal his thunder and I say to both of you that when 

it is your time for testimony, I encourage you to recognize your 

families and introduce them to the Committee. 

Also before us today is Retired Rear Admiral Patrick Dunne, who 

comes to the Committee nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary 

for Policy and Planning. As many of you know, that office has been 

the focal point of much of the discussion surrounding the theft of 

the laptop computer and hard drive from a VA employee’s home. 

The office Admiral Dunne has been chosen to lead has been vacant 

for nearly 3 years. I think this man is the right person to put back 

together and lead this area at the current time. 

Admiral Dunne, up to this point, has spent most of his adult life 

serving to advance the cause of freedom to the U.S. Navy. He is 

a 1972 graduate of the Naval Academy of Annapolis and he received his Master’s Degree in Mathematics from Navy’s Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. I think it goes without 

saying that a man that rises to the rank of Rear Admiral in the 

U.S. Navy has already demonstrated his leadership skills time and 

again. 

The Admiral’s list of assignments and duties for over a 30-year 

career in the Navy is long and distinguished, but I want to point 

out just one. I was so pleased that the Admiral was able to spend 

about 6 months of quality time during the winter of 1973 and 1974 

in Idaho Falls, Idaho. For those of you who have not had that opportunity, Idaho Falls, while in a high desert environment and a 

flat landscape, is a mile high and the sweep of Canadian-type 

weather flows down across Montana and on to the high desert 

plains of Idaho and takes the temperatures well below zero in 

Idaho Falls. 

So many of you who have not had that experience must recognize 

though that Idaho Falls is the home of the Nation’s preeminent nuclear facility, the Idaho National Laboratory, and the Admiral 

spent time at the nuclear training unit. If I had to guess, I would 

say that memories of his winter in Idaho Falls served as an impetus to assure his last assignment in Monterey, California. I will put 

the beauty of Idaho up against any place on the planet, including 

Monterey, but I concede that the weather in Monterey is probably 

a good deal more pleasant. 

Admiral Dunne is also joined by some of his family and again 

Admiral, I encourage you to introduce them to the Committee during your time of testimony. 

Before I turn to Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, who has 

additional comments and the introduction of Tom Harvey, let me 

turn to our Ranking Member, Danny Akaka, for any additional 

comments he would like to make. 

Senator Akaka.

3

STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL K. AKAKA, RANKING MEMBER, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Chairman, it is always a pleasure to work 

with you. Today, the Committee meets to tender the nominations 

for two important positions. I am pleased to welcome the two nominees and pleased to see their families here as well as their friends. 

These two positions are integral to the VA’s mission and must be 

filled with qualified, competent and motivated individuals. I am 

confident the Committee will give thoughtful consideration to these 

nominations. 

Retired Navy Admiral Patrick Dunne has been nominated to be 

the Assistant Secretary for Policy and Planning. Admiral Dunne, I 

look forward to seeing how you plan to rectify the dysfunction affecting the Office of Policy and Planning as highlighted by the recent IG report on the data loss issue. Firm leadership is critical to 

restoring the integrity and intended function of this office. 

Mr. Thomas Harvey has been nominated to be the Assistant Secretary for Congressional Legislative Affairs. Tom has a long and 

successful career in the veterans’ arena both here and with the 

Committee and at the VA. Most recently, he has been serving as 

acting Assistant Secretary. For those on the Committee who have 

not worked with Tom in the past, his most recent tenure in the VA 

has given insights into how he works with Congress. I am confident 

that Tom’s expertise and experience will prove invaluable to his 

success. Tom, as the conveyor of information to Congress, the Committee, along with our colleagues in Congress, must be able to depend on you and your staff to work with us to address questions 

and concerns. 

Assuming your confirmations, which I do, I urge you both to 

work to build and maintain relationships with Committee Members 

and staff so that both the VA and the Committee can better serve 

the veterans of this great Nation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CRAIG. Thank you, Senator Akaka. 

Senator Murray of Washington has joined us. Senator Murray, 

do you have any opening comments? 

STATEMENT OF HON. PATTY MURRAY, U.S. SENATOR

FROM WASHINGTON 

Senator MURRAY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Senator Akaka, for holding this hearing and I want to join you in welcoming Admiral Dunne and Mr. Harvey to the Committee. 

Admiral Dunne, I hope that we hear from you today about what 

steps you are going to take to reinvigorate the VA with the leadership that I think it needs to properly budget for the care and services that our veterans need and deserve and really have earned. 

The position that you are seeking has a great responsibility to our 

veterans and we need leadership that is going to take initiative to 

improve access to health care and benefits to ensure that our 

servicemembers from Iraq and Afghanistan who are returning 

home get the services that they need. 

I appreciate the time we had to meet, and I have some concerns, 

and I do want to hear from you today about your basic knowledge 

and understanding of this agency and the real inner workings of 

the VA. I hope that I hear from you, that you will get up to speed 

4

quickly, and that you will not be just a rubber stamp for the Administration policies, but will be a real advocate for the veterans 

and make sure that they are the ones that are at the top of the 

agenda on the decisions that are being made. I look forward to your 

testimony and the questions today. 

Mr. Harvey, thank you, too for taking the time to meet with me. 

Clearly, having good relationships with the Members of Congress 

to work on critical challenges is really important and I look forward to hearing from you on how we can build those relationships 

and better serve all of our veterans. Republicans, Democrats, Independents and Americans look forward to working with you. 

Thank you. 

Senator CRAIG. Thank you very much. Before I swear in both of 

our nominees, let me turn to the Honorable Kay Bailey Hutchison 

of Texas, for additional introductory comments in relation to Tom 

Harvey. Kay, welcome to the Committee. Tom knows this, but Admiral, Kay is also a Member of this Committee so she is serving 

a dual purpose. 

STATEMENT OF HON. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON,

U.S. SENATOR FROM TEXAS 

Senator HUTCHISON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 

I thank you for having this hearing for both of our nominees. It is 

very important that we have both of them official, hopefully before 

we recess. I do believe we are planning an expedited vote on them 

because they both hold such important positions to improve the VA 

as they meet transition operations. 

I am very pleased to be able to introduce my friend, Tom Harvey, 

for the position that has been mentioned. This is for Assistant Secretary for Congressional and Legislative Affairs. I cannot think of 

anyone more qualified for this position than Tom Harvey, not only 

because of his experience previous to his appointment, but because 

of the way he has handled many very tough issues during his interim time in the position. As was probably mentioned before I 

came, he is accompanied by his wife, Cathie Black, who is also a 

friend of mine and one of the most accomplished women in America, and his son, Duffy Harvey. They also have a daughter, Allison, 

who chose camp instead of listening to her father speak again. I 

cannot imagine why she would do that. But they are a wonderful 

family and I have known them for a long time. 

I think it is so much fun when a person who served as Chief 

Counsel of this Committee comes back as a nominee to be Assistant Secretary. That gives everyone there on the back row the clue 

that there is something wonderful in your future. He was the Chief 

Counsel and Staff Director from 1981 to 1983, and then again, from 

1995 to 1996. He has an in-depth knowledge of the Congressional 

process as it relates to veterans. He has committed his life’s work 

to serving veterans and his reputation and credentials are impeccable. 

After leaving the Committee staff, he was appointed to serve on 

the Commission for Servicemembers and Veterans Transition Assistance that was established by Congress, and that is where he 

came to know and work with the former Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi. The Commission’s work was thorough and 

5

comprehensive and, in large part, I think that was because the 

Committee Members were people, like Tom, who really understood 

veteran issues. Over the last several years, he has been acting Assistant Secretary and was before that the senior advisor to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs. 

He is also well known and respected for his expertise with other 

Federal agencies. He has been Deputy Administrator of the Veterans’ Administration, and General Counsel and Congressional liaison at the U.S. Information Agency. He was Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army for Acquisitions and Principal Deputy Assistant 

Secretary of the Navy for Logistics. 

He is also a combat decorated Vietnam veteran. He served twoand-a-half years in Vietnam as an infantry company commander 

and as an advisor with the Vietnamese Airborne Division. During 

his tenure of service, Tom earned a Silver Star and a Purple Heart. 

He is also a senior parachutist, a ranger, and a recipient of the 

combat infantry badge. 

Mr. Chairman, I cannot think of anyone more qualified for this 

position and I highly recommend him to you. I do also want to 

mention that I am not here to introduce Admiral Dunne, but I certainly am very pleased about his nomination. He is, as Senator 

Murray said, a key lynchpin of the Veterans’ Administration to 

give service to our veterans, and I know that he will do a fine job 

as well. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CRAIG. Kay, thank you very much. I appreciate that. 

Now, I will ask both of you to rise with me and to raise your right 

hand to be sworn in the customary fashion we do to all the nominees coming before the Committee. 

[Witnesses sworn.] 

Senator CRAIG. Danny has to do dual purpose today so he will 

be leaving us. Tom, we will start with you. Please proceed with 

your testimony and, as I mentioned earlier, please introduce any 

members of your family who is with you for the Committee and for 

the record. 

STATEMENT OF THOMAS E. HARVEY, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE 

AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS 

Mr. HARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Members 

of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before 

you this morning as the President’s nominee for the position of Assistant Secretary for Congressional Affairs, Department of Veterans Affairs. I am honored to have been nominated to that position by the President, and I appreciate the confidence shown in me 

by Secretary Jim Nicholson as he supported that nomination. I 

know that Senator Hutchison has other commitments, but what I 

wanted to mention prior to her departure was that my daughter 

Allison, who could not be with us this morning, is actually a Texan 

and takes great pride in that and, if you were to ask her where she 

is from she would say Texas. 

I was pleased when Secretary Nicholson asked me to return to 

the Department to help him out with this transition. Earlier in my 

career I had served for 5 years as Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

6

of this Committee under the Chairmanship of Senator Al Simpson. 

I believe that I was aware of many of the valid concerns of Members of Congress with regard to the VA. I felt that with my background, I could help Secretary Nicholson and the VA to better respond to those concerns. 

During the Reagan Administration, I served as Deputy Administrator of the Veterans’ Administration. I felt that I knew how those 

issues and concerns affected the VA and hoped that I would be able 

to help the VA to better understand and respond to Congressional 

needs. 

As a Vietnam combat veteran, serving two-and-a-half years there 

as an Army infantry officer, I also felt that I understood on a deeply personal level, something about this country’s veterans. I volunteered for duty in Vietnam. Many of my fellow veterans did not 

have that choice. They were young and out of school. They were 

drafted and they served selflessly and courageously in that conflict 

because that is what their country asked of them. 

Tom Brokaw spoke of those that served in World War II as the 

‘‘Greatest Generation’’ in his book of that name, written some 50 

years after the end of that conflict. I have every expectation that 

the Vietnam War will provide just the same gripping stories so 

that our own children will better understand what we experienced, 

and the same will happen to those now returning from defending 

this Nation in the Middle East today. 

Mr. Chairman, should I have the honor of being confirmed for 

this position, I hope that I can effectively serve this Administration, the dedicated professionals I have been blessed to work with 

at the VA over the years, and most significantly, this country’s veterans. 

I would like, if I may, to introduce a few of the people who are 

with me here today, most notably my wife, Cathie Black. When I 

told her that Secretary Nicholson had asked me to help him, she 

said, ‘‘That’s great, dear, but what does this mean?’’

It was then that I lied for the first time in our 25 years of marriage and said, ‘‘Oh, I don’t know. Probably 2 or 3 days a week.’’ 

It has not worked out that way, and I think by now Cathie has figured out that I was not exactly candid in that. 

My son Duffy is also here. Duffy is working as an intern in the 

Office of the Senate Majority Leader this summer before heading 

off to be a freshman at the University of Notre Dame. His sister, 

our daughter Alison, is off at camp. I believe my sister Marian Harvey is here today, as well. 

Also joining me today are several friends, and several are from 

the veteran service community who remember we had a scrapping 

good time when Senator Simpson was Chairman. And there are 

others who are here, or who are, no doubt, listening to this hearing 

streaming over their computers, who are my very fine colleagues 

at the Department of Veterans Affairs. 

There is no finer group of civil servants than those at the VA. 

In a way, they are fortunate. They have a readily comprehensible 

mission, to administer a defined group of benefits, health care, various monetary benefits, and a dignified burial, to a certain group 

of people who did something special for this country. They donned 

the uniform and risked their lives to protect the freedoms we, as 

7

a Nation, enjoy. I have never worked with a group that so clearly 

understands their mission and so fully embraces it. 

I recently heard Warren Buffett say that at the age of 75, he still 

‘‘tap dances to work every day.’’ Working with you, Mr. Chairman, 

and Members of your Committee, supporting a mission that is so 

noble, joined by professionals like that, I can tell you that, should 

I be confirmed for this position, I will be tap dancing to work every 

day. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Harvey follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF THOMAS E. HARVEY, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT

SECRETARY FOR CONGRESSIONAL AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. 

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you this morning as the President’s nominee for the position of Assistant Secretary for Congressional and Legislative Affairs at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I am honored to be nominated 

to that position by the President, and I appreciate the confidence shown in me by 

Secretary Jim Nicholson as he has supported that nomination. 

I was pleased when Secretary Nicholson asked me to return to the Department 

of Veterans Affairs to ‘‘help him out’’ when he was newly appointed Secretary. Having served for 5 years as Chief Counsel and Staff Director of this Committee under 

the Chairmanship of Senator Al Simpson, I felt that I was aware of many of the 

valid concerns Members of Congress had with regard to the VA. I felt that with that 

background, I could help VA better respond to those concerns. 

Having served for 3 years as the Deputy Administrator of the Veterans’ Administration, I felt that I knew how those issues and concerns affected that agency and 

hoped that I would be able to help the VA understand and respond to Congressional 

needs. 

As a Vietnam combat veteran, serving two-and-a-half years there as an Army infantry officer, I also felt that I understood something about this country’s veterans. 

I volunteered for duty in Vietnam. Many of my fellow Vietnam veterans did not 

have that choice. They were young and out of school. They were drafted, and they 

served selflessly and courageously in that conflict—because that is what their country asked of them. Tom Brokaw spoke of those who served in World War II as the 

‘‘Greatest Generation’’ in his book of that name written some 50 years after the end 

of that conflict. I have every expectation that the Vietnam War will provide just 

such fodder to our own children when they write about us some years hence. 

Mr. Chairman, should I have the honor of being confirmed for this position, I hope 

that I can effectively serve this Administration, the dedicated professionals I have 

been blessed to work with at the VA over the years, and, most significantly, this 

country’s veterans. 

I am accompanied by my wife, Cathie Black, and by my son Duffy Harvey today. 

Our daughter, Alison, is away at camp. I am also joined by a number of friends. 

And there are others who are here, or no doubt listening to this hearing streaming 

over their computers, who are my very fine colleagues at the Department of Veterans Affairs. There is no finer group of civil servants than those at the VA. In a 

way, they are fortunate. They have a readily comprehensible mission—to administer 

a defined group of benefits—health care, various monetary benefits, and a dignified 

burial—to a certain group of people who did something special for this country. 

They donned the uniform and risked their lives to protect the freedoms we, as a 

Nation, enjoy. I have never worked with a group that so clearly understands their 

mission and so fully embraces it. 

I recently heard Warren Buffett say that, at the age of 75, he still ‘‘tap dances 

to work every day.’’ Working with you, Mr. Chairman, and Members of your Committee—supporting a mission that is so noble—joined by professionals like that—

I can tell you that, should I be confirmed for this position, I will be tap dancing 

to work every day.

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Senator CRAIG. Alright, Tom, we will hold you to that. I am quite 

sure if the Secretary does not cause you to tap dance, we will. With 

that, let me turn to Rear Admiral Patrick Dunne, nominated as Assistant Secretary for Policy and Planning, please proceed. 

STATEMENT OF REAR ADMIRAL PATRICK W. DUNNE (RET.), 

U.S. NAVY, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR 

POLICY AND PLANNING, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS

AFFAIRS 

Admiral DUNNE. Mr. Chairman, Senator Murray, good morning. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am honored and 

humbled to have been nominated by President Bush to serve as Assistant Secretary for Policy and Planning at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I am also most grateful to Secretary Jim Nicholson 

for his confidence in me. 

For the past 33 years, it was my privilege to serve in the U.S. 

Navy. During my many tours at sea on submarines and ashore in 

many different homeports, I developed a deep respect and appreciation for the personnel who serve in our Armed Forces and their 

families. Time and again, they displayed the Honor, Courage and 

Commitment that makes our Armed Forces the greatest in the 

world. As time marches on, they too will become veterans. 

So I am inspired by them to tackle the challenges of the mission 

of the Department of Veterans Affairs, ‘‘To care for him who shall 

have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan.’’ If confirmed, I look forward to joining the team of professionals at the 

Department of Veterans Affairs to accomplish this mission. I am 

confident my experience in the Navy has given me the skills to lead 

and contribute effectively. 

I realize I will have much to learn about the Department of Veterans Affairs and all the issues that are of concern to our veterans. 

The Assistant Secretary for Policy and Planning is responsible to 

provide advice and counsel to the Secretary and other senior leaders on corporate policy and strategic planning. If confirmed, I will 

become thoroughly familiar with the issues facing the Department 

and give my very best effort to work diligently and faithfully advise 

the Secretary and Deputy Secretary. 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to formally introduce my wife Diane; 

daughter Erin and son Patrick; my mother Catherine; my wife’s 

parents Donald and Eileen Ramroth; and three cousins, Kevin, 

John and Tom Dunne. I would like to note that John just returned 

from working with the State Department for a year in Iraq. We are 

very proud of him. I am very grateful for my family’s constant love 

and support. 

Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for your consideration of my 

nomination and I would be happy to answer any questions you may 

have. 

[The prepared statement of Admiral Dunne follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF REAR ADMIRAL PATRICK W. DUNNE (RET.), U.S. NAVY, 

NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR POLICY AND PLANNING, DEPARTMENT

OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

Mr. Chairman, Senator Akaka, and Members of the Committee, good morning. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am honored and humbled to be 

nominated by President Bush to serve as Assistant Secretary for Policy and PlanVerDate 0ct 09 2002 08:30 Jan 29, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 H:\RD41451\DOCS\29718.TXT SENVETS PsN: ROWENA
15

ning at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I am also most grateful to Secretary 

Jim Nicholson for his confidence in me. 

For the past 33 years, it was my privilege to serve in the United States Navy. 

During my many tours at sea on submarines and ashore in many different 

homeports, I developed a deep respect and appreciation for the personnel who serve 

in our Armed Forces—and their families. Time and again they displayed the Honor, 

Courage and Commitment that makes our Armed Forces the greatest in the world. 

As time marches on, they too will become Veterans. 

So I am inspired by them to tackle the challenges of the mission of the Department of Veterans Affairs—‘‘To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for 

his widow and his orphan.’’ If confirmed, I look forward to joining the team of professionals at the Department of Veterans Affairs to accomplish that mission. I am 

confident my experience in the Navy has given me the skills to lead and contribute 

effectively. 

I realize I will have much to learn about the Department of Veterans Affairs and 

all the issues that are of concern to our Veterans. The Assistant Secretary for Policy 

and Planning is responsible to provide advice and counsel to the Secretary and other 

senior leaders on corporate policy and strategic planning. If confirmed, I will become 

thoroughly familiar with the issues facing the Department and give my very best 

effort to work diligently, and faithfully advise the Secretary and Deputy Secretary. 

With me today are my wife, Diane, my daughter, Erin and son, Patrick and his 

wife, Amy; my mother, Catherine, and my wife’s parents, Donald and Eileen 

Ramroth. I am very grateful for their constant love and support. 

Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, for your consideration of my nomination. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

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Senator CRAIG. Well, thank you both very much. Let us turn to 

questions. Senator Murray, in her opening comments really appropriately staged some of the questions and some of the concerns that 

we have. 

Admiral Dunne, let me start with you. As you are well aware, 

the Office of Policy and Planning was the focal point of much of the 

investigation into the theft of data from the home of one of the office’s employees. Congress and the American public have one eye 

on VA’s data system and the people who have access to that data. 

If you are confirmed to the position, do you have any immediate 

plans to make changes in the office’s functions, security procedures, 

or policies to ensure that such a data breach never happens again? 

Also, what do you intend to do to make sure the appropriate communication system is in place should a situation like this ever arise 

again? 

Admiral DUNNE. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. I 

am aware of the problem and I have read the Inspector General’s 

report and I plan to work hard at the communications aspect of it. 

I believe the team needs to be reinvigorated and provided with 

leadership. I have met many of the people and I am convinced that 

they are very dedicated and they are anxious to do the right thing. 

I am convinced that it is important to step in and begin executing 

the Secretary’s plan, which he briefed the Committee on last week, 

and make that effective as soon as possible. 

I believe there are three areas we need to look at: One, is technology and taking a look at those parts of technology that will 

allow us to safeguard the data. We need to put into place those 

policies and procedures which will allow the people to work effectively with the data that they must work with. And finally, to have 

effective training which will allow those dedicated people to understand the significance of the data that they are working with. 

I liken it to my experience in the Navy working with top secret 

material, and the culture needs to be changed so that everyone 

that handles the veterans’ data, understands that in my mind, it 

has the same significance as the top secret material that I handled 

in the Department of Defense. It is essential that the data be available to be used in order to forecast and be able to enhance the impact of our veterans’ benefits. In order to do that, we have to treat 

that data properly and with the right amount of security. 

Senator CRAIG. I appreciate those comments and thoughts and it 

appears that you have given this considerable thought. There has 

been a lot of criticism of VA in general, and the Office of Policy and 

Planning specifically. What has come out of the data theft is that 

there is not a culture that used the information that is constantly 

passing though its hands as sensitive. VA employees, especially 

those in Policy and Planning, are if you will, desensitized as to the 

privacy of the information and how it might be used if it got out 

in the public domain. 

So I ask the question, you have partly answered it, but how can 

you create a culture in the Office of Policy and Planning that is 

more sensitive to the importance of the information that passes 

through on a daily basis? I heard you suggest that you liken it to 

the kind of secure information that high-level government officials 

operate under. Are there rules and punishments that would accomVerDate 0ct 09 2002 08:30 Jan 29, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 H:\RD41451\DOCS\29718.TXT SENVETS PsN: ROWENA
23

pany those rules and understandings of what would result from 

breaches of that information? 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, sir. I believe that there are and will be effective rules in place for which people will be trained. They will be 

held accountable for them, and if necessary, disciplinary action 

taken. I believe that the Secretary has taken effective action initially, by giving the authority to the Chief Information Officer to 

act on security incidents and make the leaders at the VA aware of 

any breaches of those rules which occur so that the leaders can 

take appropriate and timely actions when these occur. 

Senator CRAIG. Thank you. 

Senator Murray. 

Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me follow up on 

what the Chairman just talked about. I think what we have heard 

on this Committee over and over again is the culture change that 

is needed, the tremendous need for leadership, and a new management style. Can you describe for us what your management style 

is—what kind of leadership style you have? 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, Senator, I can attempt to do that. I would 

say it is one that is based on involvement, based on setting high 

standards, verifying that those standards are being executed and 

holding people accountable for it basically. 

Senator MURRAY. Is it your intent to go in very first day and establish that leadership? 

Admiral DUNNE. Absolutely. They will know that I am there on 

day one. 

Senator MURRAY. As a result of a lot of things that have happened from budget issues to loss of that sensitive data, veterans 

across the country are questioning, for the first time ever, the leadership at the VA. How do you reestablish that trust with them? 

How do they know that you are going to be in that office making 

sure that decisions are made every single day that say that veterans are first? How will they see that? 

Admiral DUNNE. Senator, that will be a day by day improvement. 

We will get better one day at a time. As we work with that very 

important data to develop the analysis which VA needs, it will become evident as we are able to process that data and get the right 

information forecasting and the right evaluation of our programs so 

that the veterans will see it in improved services, improved understanding of their benefits, improved outreach, and figure out why 

people are leaving the vocational rehab program. We will solve 

those problems when we are able to effectively use the data by putting the proper security in place. 

So therefore, we focus on serving our veterans because the culture has been changed, and it is instinctive that we protect that 

data. We are not spending time trying to figure out how to protect 

the data, we are spending time on figuring out how to serve our 

veterans. 

Senator MURRAY. What will the signal be that veterans can see 

across the country that assures them from day one that you are 

their advocate? 

Admiral DUNNE. The signal from day one—I am not sure that 

they can all fit in the room with me day one to see from the start 

how I am going to take charge and make sure that we put the plan 

24

into effect. But I will definitely make the effort to talk to the VSOs, 

et cetera, and explain to them what I plan to do. I will be happy 

to brief anyone on what we are doing and how we are making 

progress at any time, Senator. 

Senator MURRAY. I want to know that you understand how much 

the world is questioning everything right now, just with the data 

theft alone. Looking at information trickling out about how—the 

veterans are getting letters saying that their data may be 

breached, then they are told that they would have credit checks for 

a year, and then they are told that they are not going to have credit checks for a year. Just from that alone, not to mention the budget that was not accurate, veterans waiting in long lines, and really 

they are beginning to mistrust the direction at the VA. 

So talk to me a little bit about how you see the world out there 

and how you can reestablish the trust? 

Admiral DUNNE. Senator, when my friends and associates became aware that I had been nominated for this position, what they 

spoke to me about was data management. That was their concern; 

go in and fix that problem. I am convinced that if we execute the 

Secretary’s plan, if I go in there and show leadership and get the 

culture changing, people understanding what is required of them, 

that will spread. People will talk by word of mouth. It will get 

around. If you go into the VA right now, people are aware of the 

change in culture. It is brought up at just about every meeting. The 

emphasis is on it and that will spread and people will understand 

that we are serious. 

The Secretary talks to us about it all the time. 

Senator MURRAY. Thank you. 

Senator CRAIG. Thank you very much. Let me close with you, Admiral, and say that there will be another conduit for you to express 

to the public your accomplishments in changing the culture of the 

VA and that is right here. We are very intent, as is the House 

Committee, on working with you and the Secretary and the VA in 

general to get this right. The Veterans’ Administration, for a good 

number of years, has been constantly warned of the absence of the 

culture, the absence of the protocol, the absence of the protections 

in the way they handle their information. 

As a result of that inherent problem that we have all worked 

through in the last several months, you are coming to a VA at a 

time, in all fairness, that is going to be watched very closely. I do 

not mean to place extra burden upon your shoulder, but only to remind you that it is there. This Committee will stay focused and 

work with you to assure that this happens, because we believe it 

is necessary to transform the culture down there and to the one 

you are speaking about. 

Tom, let me turn to you. Let me stay on this theme, because I 

think one of the frustrations that came out of this was timeliness 

and notification of all of us as it relates to how certain things were 

or were not handled, and that has a touch of Congressional relations to it. Of course, you have had tremendous experience here on 

the Hill and you know how important it is for the VA and the committees, both on the House and Senate side, to have a close working relationship, quick turnaround on information and requests as 

25

it relates to our work with constituents and constituent groups, 

VSOs, as we work on behalf of America’s veterans. 

Talk to me for a few moments and to the Committee about those 

relationships and the timeliness of them and the importance of the 

contact with staff and with the members of the appropriate committees. 

Mr. HARVEY. Mr. Chairman, I very much look forward to working 

closely with your staff and the staff of a few various members on 

a regular basis just so we have an ongoing dialogue. I think we 

have developed that pretty well. I was subjected to verbal abuse by 

the Chief Counsel recently and he made it clear to me that I had 

overstepped my boundaries in some very significant way. 

Senator CRAIG. I hope he was not too abusive. 

Mr. HARVEY. Oh, no, he was not too abusive. But I think what 

we have is a relationship where he does not hesitate to pick up the 

phone and call me. I said to the Secretary when I began this job, 

I said that I hope I will be able to spend part—at least part of a 

day every week up here on the Hill just talking to people because 

there is a certain amount of stuff that you find out from just talking to people. If you find out that something is an irritant, it can 

be taken care of before it becomes a crisis. I think I am well on 

my way to doing that. I certainly hope so. 

I have been working with your staff for the better part of a year 

now, but I have known Bill Brew, the Staff Director for the Minority, since 1981 when I first became Staff Director here, under then 

Leader, Senator Alan Cranston. I think we have that open flow of 

conversation and I look forward to keeping that up. It makes my 

job easier, as well as it makes it easier for you and for your staff 

to be responsive to your concerns. 

Something else I have, which I am sure you are aware of, is we 

have people in the Office of Congressional Liaison. We have people 

here on the Hill who try to be responsive, and immediately responsive to Members and their concerns if something comes up. They 

follow up, they let us know down in the central office, do I need 

to be responsive in the next 24 hours or do I need to be responsive 

right away. They seem to do a pretty good job and that is validated 

by some of my conversations with some of the staff of the Members 

of this Committee. 

Senator CRAIG. Thank you, Tom. 

Senator Murray. 

Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Admiral Dunne, we have 1.3 million new names on the veteran 

database, can you tell me what your plans are to make sure that 

they are cared for? 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, Senator, I can. The Office of Policy and 

Planning has the responsibility to provide forecasting to the various administrations within the VA so that they can prepare for the 

future. So we need to be able to take the data that is handled in 

that office and be able to describe the demographics of our veterans 

day in and day out. We need to be able to update it periodically 

and have good information, so that as the Administration, whether 

it be VHA, VBA, or the Cemetery Administration, as they forecast 

what their needs will be for the future, we can support them with 

good analytical data. 

26

Senator MURRAY. Be specific. Tell me what you plan to do for 

traumatic brain injury. 

Admiral DUNNE. For traumatic brain injury, there would be the 

opportunity to conduct a study under the auspices of VHA that 

would tell us what medical factors, et cetera, would need to be 

evaluated, whether it was a survey or otherwise. They would collect all the data and have it available for analysis so they can make 

a medical evaluation. 

Senator MURRAY. Is that not available now? 

Admiral DUNNE. There is some data available. I would expect 

more would be available over time as more of our veterans and active duty personnel are treated. 

Senator MURRAY. If, for example, you saw that a number of traumatic brain injured soldiers are living in remote areas, what would 

your plan be to deal with it? 

Admiral DUNNE. That would require a recommendation of options to VHA and to the Secretary about how they could deal with 

that and make sure that our veterans had the opportunity to have 

access to the care that they would need. 

Senator MURRAY. Even if that was a costly recommendation, are 

you ready to make that? 

Admiral DUNNE. The recommendation that I would make would 

be based on the data that we accumulated and that would be my 

duty to the Secretary to tell him what our veterans need. 

Senator MURRAY. How about PTSD? 

Admiral DUNNE. The same thing with PTSD. 

Senator MURRAY. And if you found that we were not serving veterans adequately and efficiently, are you prepared to come to us 

and tell us that we need to find more resources—to tell your Administration it needs to find more resources? 

Admiral DUNNE. I would not be reluctant to voice my concern for 

what was needed for our veterans based on the information that 

we have. 

Senator MURRAY. Are you aware of the waiting lines that we 

have in the medical centers today? 

Admiral DUNNE. I am aware that there are some waiting lines. 

Yes, Senator, I am. 

Senator MURRAY. Have you thought in any way about how we 

can shorten these? 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, Senator, I have. I believe I can make the 

Office of Policy and Planning expertise available to Admiral Cooper 

and VBA, to help him with process analysis of how they are handling the claims, et cetera, and work with him in order to continue 

to reduce that time line and make it more timely, as I know is already his goal. 

Senator MURRAY. How about waiting lines for benefits? Are you 

aware of how long they are? 

Admiral DUNNE. I am aware that it approaches 180 days. I believe we can take a look at things similar to Web applications, and 

for those veterans who are proficient at using computers, that 

would speed up the process. For those veterans who chose to apply 

in person instead of on the Web, the line would be shorter, et 

cetera. It is still the same volume, but handling it through different 

27

processes using technology, or other elements, in order to make 

things go as fast as humanly possible. 

Senator MURRAY. I am sure you are aware of the challenges with 

budget requests to Congress over the last year and a half, how do 

you plan to make sure that we get a realistic budget based on real 

needs and the cost of health care today? 

Admiral DUNNE. Once again, Senator, it is making our Office of 

Policy and Planning’s analytical capability available to the Office 

of Management as they prepare the budget and help them with 

economic forecasting, in which we have experts that will provide 

them those economic forecasts and allow them to factor that into 

their model as they prepare the budget. 

Senator MURRAY. So you really want to do this? 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, Senator, I do. I think it is a very important 

mission, and I am very hopeful to be confirmed and have the opportunity to serve. 

Senator MURRAY. Mr. Harvey, I do not mean to ignore you, but 

your skills in dealing with Senator Simpson, I think are good background for having to deal with many of us, and I assure you, I will 

not ignore you once you are in office. 

Mr. HARVEY. I am sure you will not. 

Senator CRAIG. Gentlemen, I have no further questions other 

than several necessary ones that are pro forma questions that are 

asked. Before I ask those, I confer with Senator Murray. My style 

is different than former Senator Alan Simpson. That means we are 

different in how we approach things. But I always liken Senator 

Simpson, when he would walk by a sleeping dragon, he would stick 

his finger in his eye to determine whether it was fire breathing or 

not fire breathing. I have learned over time that sleeping dragons 

ought to be allowed to continue to sleep until such time as they 

awaken, then you have to deal with them. He still holds a fascinating reputation here in the U.S. Senate. 

Gentlemen, let me ask you some necessary and pro forma questions that are important for the record. You can respond to them 

individually or jointly. 

Do you have any conflicts of interest that you have not fully disclosed to the Committee or do you know of any other matters 

which, if known to the Committee, might affect the Committee’s 

recommendations to the Senate with respect to your nominations? 

Mr. HARVEY. No, Senator, I do not. 

Admiral DUNNE. No, sir. 

Senator CRAIG. Have you fully and accurately provided financial 

and other information requested by the Committee and do you now 

affirm that information is complete, accurate, and provided in a 

form not designed to evade? 

Mr. HARVEY. Yes, Senator, I have done that. 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, sir. 

Senator CRAIG. Do you agree to supply the Committee such nonprivileged information, materials and documents as may be requested by the Committee in its oversight and legislative capacities 

for as long as you shall serve in the position for which you now 

seek confirmation? 

Mr. HARVEY. Yes, Senator, I do. Let me just parenthetically mention that just the day before yesterday, in a conversation with our 

28

Deputy Secretary Gordon Mansfield, he mentioned how significant 

a role this process is. He said, ‘‘You know, this is the U.S. Constitution at work. You have been nominated by the President and the 

Senate is now preparing to give its advice and consent on that.’’ He 

said, ‘‘Think of it as something that is very serious.’’ I do, and it 

was helpful that Gordon mentioned that and just sort of refreshed 

it in our minds because it is something serious that we do. 

Admiral DUNNE. Mr. Chairman, I will. 

Senator CRAIG. Do you agree to appear before the Committee at 

such times and concerning such matters that the Committee might 

request for as long as you serve in the position for which you are 

seeking confirmation? 

Mr. HARVEY. Yes, sir. 

Admiral DUNNE. Yes, sir. 

Senator CRAIG. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being with 

us this morning. We are pleased you brought your families with 

you. As was mentioned, we are going to move as expeditiously as 

we can. It is critically important that we fill these positions and get 

the VA up to speed and, Admiral, in the capacity that you will 

move into upon confirmation, there has been a void of leadership 

in that position for some time. At this moment in time, I think the 

Congress is focused on the reality of the problem you are now in 

charge of dealing with and it is a huge task. At the same time, for 

the short term and the long term, it is a critical task. 

When the Secretary was before us last week, I charged him or 

his successor with the challenge of coming back and being able to 

hold up a Business Week magazine article that speaks about the 

quality of VA’s IT and how it is managed and controlled as the example the rest of Government ought to follow, as is the case of 

medical records today at VA, and how the rest of both the public 

and private medical world is wanting to follow. 

If you can meet that challenge, you will have accomplished a 

great deal. We know that it will not be done overnight. We recognize it is a time and place process, but I was just thinking that if 

you grew up under the tutelage of Admiral Rickover, and certainly 

your experience would suggest to me that you did, that was all 

about process and it was all about discipline. And that is how he 

built one of the most successful nuclear navies in the history of the 

world. That kind of tutelage prepares you well for this position. 

Thank you both very much for being with us and, as I have said, 

we will move as expeditiously as we can toward your confirmation. 

Thank you. The Committee will stand adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:53 a.m. the Committee was adjourned.] 

(29)

APPENDIX

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ALLAN E. GOODMAN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL EDUCATION

I have the privilege of serving as president of the Nation’s oldest and largest educational exchange organization, the Institute of International Education (IIE), and 

the good fortune of having a son-in-law, Dr. John Dooley, who interned for Senator 

Frist and now practices Internal Medicine at the VA Hospital in Washington. 

IIE has the honor to administer the Fulbright Program on behalf of the Department of State and has done so since its inception. The Institute has also found itself 

on the front lines of the war against learning; since 1920, we have been engaged 

in rescuing scholars. We have helped over 10,000 to reach safe haven and continue 

their work for the benefit of humankind. Many have gone on to win Nobel Prizes. 

This year, Senator Patrick Leahy and Lord Browne of Madingley have nominated 

the Institute for the Nobel Peace Prize. 

For 7 years (1998–2005), Thomas Harvey served as the Institute’s Senior Counselor for Government Affairs. He did so with consistent excellence and complete 

dedication to our mission of ‘‘Opening Minds to the World’’ and to the Fulbright Program’s goal of fostering mutual understanding. He is, in my view, an exemplary 

servant of causes and needs in the public interest. 

The needs of veterans have never been far from Tom’s mind. Over the more than 

twenty years that I have known him, Tom has taken a special interest in those who, 

as a result of being wounded, confront special and considerable challenges navigating daily life and holding a job. He has empathy—and a sharp eye for the public 

and private accommodations that need to be made to ensure that veterans and their 

families are honored and helped in America. 

The offices of the Department of Veterans Affairs have always been in Tom’s eye, 

too. The Institute’s Washington, DC offices are three blocks from VA headquarters. 

And as I pass the VA building these days and read what is written above the door, 

I think about the perfect fit between what President Abraham Lincoln said the Veterans’ Administration should do—‘‘To care for him who has borne the battle, and 

for his widow and his orphan’’—and the energy, integrity, and commitment to that 

mission, Tom will, if confirmed, bring to his post. He is just the kind of person to 

help lead the Department of Veterans Affairs. Tom Harvey knows what their service—and his—is all about. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID W. GORMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS

On June 22, 2006, the President announced his intention to nominate our friend 

and Disabled American Veterans (DA Life Member Thomas Harvey of New York to 

be Assistant Secretary for Congressional Affairs, Department of Veterans Affairs 

(VA). Your Committee has scheduled a hearing on July 26, 2006, to consider that 

nomination. We write in full support of Mr. Harvey’s nomination, and urge his early 

confirmation by the full Senate. 

As a distinguished disabled veteran and a Life Member of our organization, Mr. 

Harvey and his qualifications to serve are well known to the DAV. 

He served as an infantry officer in the United States Army from 1966 to his honorable discharge in 1985; during his combat service in Vietnam, Mr. Harvey was 

decorated with the Silver Star and Purple Heart for his valorous actions. 

Mr. Harvey currently serves as Acting Assistant Secretary for Congressional Affairs at VA. Prior his current VA appointment, he served as Senior Counsel for the 

Institute of International Education York. Earlier in his career, Mr. Harvey served 

as Chief Counsel and Staff Director for your own Committee under Chairman Alan 

K. Simpson of Wyoming. Among his many accomplishments during that tenure was 

Congressional passage of the Veterans Eligibility Reform Act of 1996, Public Law 

30

104–262, one of the most significant acts of Congress dealing with veteran’s health 

care enacted since World War II. Mr. Harvey was a lead negotiator on that key legislation that has aided millions of sick and disabled veterans in living better, 

healthier lives. 

On examination of his credentials and background, we believe the Senate will find 

Mr. Harvey to be immanently qualified for the position of trust for which has been 

nominated. As a wounded and combat veteran, former Senate staff director and 

counsel, former Deputy Administrator of Veterans Affairs, and, to his current role 

at VA, Mr. Harvey has been an exemplar of fidelity, honesty and integrity. The DAV 

is proud to call Thomas Harvey a dear friend, and more importantly, a friend to 

America’s veterans. The VA Secretary places a great deal of reliance on Mr. Harvey’s advice and counsel, and we believe his influence on VA policy will only grow 

over time in his confirmed assignment as Assistant Secretary. 

In summary, Mr. Chairman, DAV wholeheartedly supports Thomas Harvey’s confirmation. We hope your Committee will duly examine his qualifications and will 

subsequently report positively and unanimously his fitness to serve the Nation’s veterans as Assistant VA Secretary for Congressional Affairs.

Æ