Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

1 P UBLIC A NNOUNCEMENT

The U.S

. Department of Transportation (DOT) , Office of the Secretary of Transportation, told the public of this Future of Aviation Advisory Committee (FAAC) Labor and World

- class Workforce

Subcommittee meeting in a Federal Register noti ce published September 21 , 2010 (75 FR 5 7545 )

and revised October 1, 2010 (75 FR 60856)

.

S UBCOMMITTEE M EMBERS IN A TTENDANCE

Name Affiliation(s)

Patricia A. Friend ( Subcommittee Chair) International President Association of Flight Attendants (AFA)

– Communi cations Workers of America ( CWA ) , American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL

– CIO)
David Barger President and

Chief Executive Officer JetBlue Airways Corporation (JetBlue)

John Conley International Administrative

Vice Presi dent and Air Transport

Division Director Transport Workers Union of America (TWU), AFL

– CIO

Cynthia M. Egnotovich Segment President, Nacelles and Interior Systems Goodrich Company (Goodrich)

Robert L. Lekites President United Parcel Service (UPS) Airlines

Ana McAhron

- Schulz Director of Economic and Financial Analysis Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA)

S UBCOMMITTEE M EMBERS N OT IN A TTENDANCE

Name Affiliation(s)

Thella F. Bowens President and Chief

Executive Officer San Diego County Region al Airport Authority

O THER O FFICIALS P RESENT

Name Affiliation(s)

Terri Williams (Designated Federal Official (DFO)) Director, Center for Organizational Excellence Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)

Regis Milan ( Alternate DFO) Associate Director and Special Assistant to the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Aviation and

International Affairs U.S. Department of Transportation ( DOT )Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

2 O THER P ERSONS P RESENT

Name Affiliation(s)
Jan (Jay) Aul FAA
Emily Dziedzic PAI Consulting
Jeffrey Goodell JetBlue

Krista Holliday Goodrich

Dean Hubbard TWU

Joshua Javits Dispute Resolution Services

B ACKGROUND AND W ELCOMING R EMARKS

This is the record of the fourth meeting of the Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee of the FAAC, a F ederal advisory committee formed pursuant to and subject to the requirements of the

Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA).

Ms

. Patricia Friend

, S ubcommittee C hair

, AFA

- CWA , called the meeting to order at 1:0 0 p.m. She welcomed the s ubcommittee members and members of the public in attend ance

.

Ms. Friend introduced Ms. Terri Williams, FAA, the DFO for the meeting, and asked her to summarize FACA requirements. Ms. Williams noted the meeting is conducted under FACA and outlined her responsibilities as DFO, including maintaining adherence to the agenda, keeping accurate minutes, and adjourning the meeting if necessary.

Ms. Williams noted meetings of the subcommittee are accessible to the public and stated interested people have the opportunity to submit comments before each meeting either b y email at faac@dot.gov or by submission to the regulatory docket at www.regulations.gov

. She added the minutes of each meeting will be made available both in the regulatory docket and on the FAAC Web site at http://www.dot.gov/faac

.

Ms. Williams read the formal statement required under FACA. She noted although the meeting was open to the public and members of the public were attending the meeting , participation in the meeting

was limited to subcommittee members, their alternates, and Federal officials. She added that only

subcommittee members and their alternates were entitled to vote on subcommittee business.

Ms. Williams then turne d the meeting back over to Ms. Friend to open substantive discussion.Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

3 D ISCUSSION

Ms. Friend introduced Mr. Josh ua Javits, Dispute Resolution Services . Mr. Javits thanked the subcommittee for the opportunity to speak and acknowledged the importance of the tasking of the

subcommittee.

Mr. Javits stated labor relations are a vital part of the air carrier industry because of the service nature of the business. He stated approximately 70 percent of labor is unionized, which is higher than most public sectors. He added, in the aviation industry

, relations between labor and management is

essential.

Mr. Javits noted he has three points to make in his presentation. The first is the National Mediation Board (NMB) needs a push by the A dministration to encourage mor e effective negotiations. He stated the NMB created a Dunlop II committee in 2009 to look at all F ederal labor relations laws and issued a report in April 2009 ( see a ppendix A). He also noted the NMB is trying to adopt Dunlop II. Mr. Javits explained th at Dunlop II has been endorsed by both labor and management and he believes this movement will go a long way to help labor management relations. He stated prolonged mediation is bad for employees and lack of deadlines causes mediation to take longer than necessary. Mr. Javits

favor s adopting Dunlop II and believes the subcommittee should encourage the NMB to continue efforts to adopt it.

Mr. Javits explained the second point focuses on current events. He stated the NMB currently has several major air c arrier disputes involving bankruptcy. He noted bankruptcy is used to aggregate

contracts. Mr. Javits stated it is advisable for the A dministration to consider labor and transportation policies to determine whether intervention is appropriate in cases of prolonged negotiation . He stated

there must be (1) coordination between the NMB and the White House and (2) an executive order for

e mergency b oards that should be ready for action.

Mr. Javits stated the third point is to focus on long

- term concerns. He n oted the parties involved in negotiation have system boards of adjustments to solve grieva nces, and the aviation industry’s boards

are a combination of private and public interests. He stated the Secretary of Transportation needs to

endorse communications so these boards can work together to improve labor / management relations.

Mr. Javits also noted the negotiation process should be simplified and there should be some dispute resolution procedures in place before bankruptcy . This will allow companies to obtain concessions

where needed. He added adjustments must be made if a contract reflects that a company has no funds ; parties must be able to adjust to current economic situations. Mr. Javits also stated there needs to be a compromise between the curren t stratified collective bargaining process and monthly negotiations to enable parties to change and adapt to a company’s circumstances and the economy. He added the current bargaining process may be a thing of the past.Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

4 Ms. Friend asked the subcommittee i f they ha d any questions for Mr. Javits . Mr. John Conley, TWU, asked for clarification about the adoption of Dunlop II. Mr. Javits stated the NMB has adopted parts of Dunlop II, but not all of it. He stated there are some pieces still under consideratio n
, but it is critical for the NMB to implement the entire document.

Ms. Friend stated the subcommittee should propose to the Secretary of Transportation that both the NMB and parties involved in negotiation endorse and adopt all provisions of Dunlop II

. M s. Ana McAhron

- Schulz, ALPA, stated the subcommittee must come up with recommendations the DOT can implement. She stated one proposal is to ensure the NMB has proper resources to streamline negotiation

, and a second proposal is to endorse Dunlop II. She acknowledged encourag ing parties to work better together is difficult to implement. Mr. Javits agreed and stated endors ing Dunlop II will allow deadlines to be implemented and encourage effectiveness in the bargaining process.

Mr. Robert Lekites, UPS, sta te d he would like to endorse Dunlop II as a recommendation and have the DOT support additional funding needed at the NMB. He stated when parties enter into negotiations,

the process can be prolonged by a lack of resources to address issues. He added nego tiations can also be prolonged when companies enter the negotiation process unprepared and inexperienced. He suggested proper training of industry professionals will allow for a smoother interaction with the NMB.

Mr. Javits agreed with Mr. Lekites. Mr. Javits stated the lack of negotiation deadlines creates difficult y because only about 10 percent of the time is spent in negotiation , while the other 90 percent of the time

is wasted . He stated the NMB and the parties involved need to get together, focus, and complete

the negotiation.

Mr. Lekites stated a large part of the problem deals with trust. He commented parties must treat each other with dignity and respect for the best interest of the employees. He stated the trust factor works

we ll and allows f

or the process to be expedited.

Mr. Javits stated the NMB has the power to release parties

, but the A dministration must understand the process and push for an earlier agreement. Mr. Javits stated it is possible to reach negotiation in

6 months rather th an 2 years.

Mr. Conley stated the need to concentrate on relationships. He also stated resources are necessary for the NMB to operate effectively. Mr. Javits commented the NMB’s travel budget needs help. In addition, he stated the NMB needs more aggress ive mediators and better training so it can be more effective.

Ms. Friend stated the subcommittee is discussing a proposal for institutionalizing an annual labor management meeting called by the Secretary of Transportation. She asked Mr. Javits, if this proposal

is accepted, what are his thoughts on what the agenda and measurable outcomes should be on an annual

basis?Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

5 Mr. Javits stated there are plenty of issues to discuss and a summit is a great forum to discuss the se issues

. However, for the summit to be effective, the Secretary of Transportation must endorse it.

Mr. Lekites stated a summit would be effective, but it might be difficult for the air carriers and leadership to get together. He noted it would be beneficial for the Secretary to sit down with companies and unions to assess current workplace situation s

.

Mr. Conley stated there are many business model examples outside of the air carrier industry

, and he is interested in finding out which of these models are successful. He stated all indu stry executives would benefit from listening to those stories. In addition, he stated the endorsement from the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Labor or the Secretary of Transportation will encourage companies to see the value in discussing problems an d finding solutions

.

Ms. McAhron

- Schulz stated the need to discuss best practices. She brought up the Flightcrew Member Duty and Rest Requirements ; Notice of Proposed Rulem aking (75 FR 55853, September 14, 2010) that

will affect current contracts. She st ated the summit is a perfect arena to discuss these issues.

Ms. McAhron

- Schulz also acknowledged the benefit of conversations between people about to enter negotiations with people who just completed negotiations.

Ms. Friend inquired if companies would b e hesitant to have open discussions for competitive reasons.

Mr. David Barger , JetBlue

, stated he d id not think it would be a challenge to remain transparent, especially if the G overnment is involved.

Ms. Friend expressed concern because companies do not want to compete on a safety record. She asked which areas may be considered too competitive to discuss in an open forum. Mr. Lekites responded this is an issue of trust. He stated each company will operate in its own way, with many variables, allowing f

or the continuance of competition. Mr. Barger added that

, in the spirit of

transparency, companie s can remove their logos in a public debate , thereby rais ing the safety bar. He

s t ated a forum with the Secretary of Transportation is an appropriate arena f or these debates.

Mr. Barger asked Mr. Javits if the Staggers Rail Act of 1980 offers any lessons for the air carrier industry. Mr. Javits stated in terms of labor relations, the aviation industry and the rail industry are polar opposite s . He stated the rail industry has 12 unions nationally that negotiate together. He noted work issues are dealt with locally

, and the high pay level for low skilled workers usually solves most

issues. Mr. Javits s t ated

, with the merging nature of the aviation industry, t he Staggers Rail Act would

not be effective. He stated the impact of a strike at a national level would result in action by emergency boards and the involvement of political parties.

Ms. Friend thanked Mr. Javits for his time and for his presentation. Sh e stated his presentation helped

her focus on the proposal to endorse and adopt Dunlop II and formulate ideas for an annual summit.

She released Mr. Javits so the subcommittee could continue discussions about the proposals.

Mr. Conley suggested the subcom mittee review the Dunlop II document to ensure all members want to push that proposal through.Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

6 Ms. Friend reminded the subcommittee the next FAAC meeting on October 20, 2010

, in

Los Angeles, California

, is designed to discuss proposals on identified issu es. She stated there is a

focus area form that must be used for proposals.

Ms. Friend stated the non

- consensus issues would serve as topics for summits. She stated the topics of foreign repair stations, outsourcing, and joint ventures could be included i n the labor management summit proposal, so the se issues are not forgotten. She commented the concept of the forum could be ongoing discussion of the non

- consensus items. Mr. Conley agreed these issues will not get solved by ignoring them and the summit s erves as a great forum for discussion.

Ms. Friend stated she will talk to the D OT for suggestions on how to format the proposal so it continues beyond the tenure of the current Secretary of Transportation

.

Mr. Regis Milan, DOT, stated the subcommittee shou ld craft their language in the proposals to reflect an apolitical stance . This will ensure the summit concept extends beyond changes in the

A dministration and the Secretar y of Transportation.

Ms. Friend stated the task of the FAAC is to stabilize the av iation industry. She stated t he Labor and

World

- class Workforce Subcommittee is responsible for helping create an environment where people want to come to work. She stated the proposals , which will be presented at the October 20, 2010

, FAAC meeting in Lo s Angeles , California

, focus on recruitment and retention.

Ms. Friend stated the proposals need to be revised to fit the FAAC template. She suggested the

subcommittee use a one

- page format for non

- consensus issues

, includ ing a workforce view and an

indu stry view. She stated these non

- consensus papers will be attached to the annual summit proposal as subject suggestions. Ms. Friend recognized the subcommittee will be able to defer discussion of these topics to the annual summit , therefore

, the discussio n will continue beyond the FAAC timeline.

C LOSING R EMARKS AND A DMINISTRATIVE M ATTERS

The subcommittee members delegated the work and agreed to send non

- consensus papers to

Ms. Friend before October 11, 2010. Ms. Friend stated the next FAAC meeting will be on October 20, 2010

, in Los Angeles , California. She stated the non

- consensus papers will be circulated

to subcommittee members before the Los Angeles , California

, meeting.Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC

7 A DJOURNMENT

Ms

. Williams solicited a motion for adjournment. On motion, duly sec onded and approved by the majority of the subcommittee members present, the meeting was adjourned.

The meeting adjourned at 2:44 p.m

.

I hereby certify that, to the best of my knowledge, the foregoing minutes are accurate and complete.

Approved by: ______

_________________ ________________ _____

Dated: _______________________

________________ ___________

Ratified on: _____________

________________ _________________Future of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DCFuture of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DCFuture of Aviation Advisory Committee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

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Washington, DCFuture of Aviation Advisory Committee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
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Washington, DCFuture of Aviation Advisory Committee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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Washington, DCFuture of Aviation Advisory Committee

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- class Workforce Subcommittee

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Washington, DCFuture of Aviation Advisory Committee

Labor and World

- class Workforce Subcommittee

Record of Meeting
October 1, 2010

Communication Workers of America

Washington, DC