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S. HRG. 110–8

NOMINATION OF CARL J. ARTMAN

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON

THE NOMINATION OF CARL J. ARTMAN TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY

OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

FEBRUARY 1, 2007

WASHINGTON, DC

(
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota, Chairman

CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming Vice Chairman

DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii

TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington

CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri

JON TESTER, Montana

JOHN McCAIN, Arizona

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico

GORDON SMITH, Oregon

LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina

TOM COBURN, M.D., Oklahoma

SARA G. GARLAND, Majority Staff Director

DAVID A. MULLON JR. Minority Staff Director

(II)
(III)

C O N T E N T S

Page

Statements:

Artman, Carl J., nominee to be assistant secretary, Indian Affairs, Department of the Interior, Washington, DC ................................................. 7

Cantwell, Maria, U.S. Senator from Washington .......................................... 13

Danforth, Gerald L., chairman, Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin ....... 2

Dorgan, Byron L., U.S. Senator from North Dakota, chairman, Committee

on Indian Affairs ........................................................................................... 1

Gollnick, William, chief of staff, Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin ...... 2

Johnson, Jacqueline, executive director, National Congress of American

Indians ........................................................................................................... 4

Thomas, Hon. Craig, U.S. Senator from Wyoming, vice chairman, Committee on Indian Affairs ............................................................................... 2

APPENDIX

Prepared statements:

Artman, Carl J. (with attachment) ................................................................. 15

Danforth, Gerald L. .......................................................................................... 167

Johnson, Jacqueline (with attachment) .......................................................... 167

Note: Other material submitted for the record are retained in committee

files.

(1)

NOMINATION OF CARL J. ARTMAN

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2007

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS, Washington, DC.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m. in room 485,

Senate Russell Office Building, Hon. Byron L. Dorgan (chairman of

the committee) presiding.

Present: Senators Dorgan, Thomas, Inouye, Tester, and Cantwell

STATEMENT OF HON. BYRON L. DORGAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM

NORTH DAKOTA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

The CHAIRMAN. We will call the hearing to order today.

Today we are receiving testimony on the President’s nomination

of Carl Artman to be Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs at the

Department of the Interior. In addition to Mr. Artman, statements

will be made by Chairman Danforth of the Oneida Tribe of Wisconsin, in which Mr. Artman is a member, and by Jacqueline Johnson,

executive director of the National Congress of American Indians.

Last September, our committee held a hearing on Mr. Artman’s

nomination. We moved quickly to approve the nomination and

move it to the floor of the Senate. There was a hold put on it in

the Senate, and the nomination did not get completed. The President has resubmitted the nomination. I decided to hold an early

hearing. It is my intention to report the nomination out today with

the consent of the Vice Chairman and the other committee members. Then it is my intent next week to work very hard to try to

move this nomination. I talked to the Secretary of the Interior yesterday. If we need to get some help from the President, we need

to do that.

It is shameful to me that starting tomorrow, the month of February, it will be 2 full years that the Assistant Secretary for Indian

Affairs position has been open and unfilled. That is unbelievable,

given the challenges we face. Whatever the reasons for it, it has

to change. This has to stop. We have a nominee that I believe is

qualified, well qualified, I have supported this nominee. I will do

so again this morning.

If there are problems here in the Congress as we move this to

the floor, my hope is that myself, the vice chairman, the Secretary

of the Interior and the President can figure out where those problems exist, resolve them and move this nomination. It is long past

the time that the assistant secretary position be filled. As I said,

we have significant challenges. I use the word crisis to describe
2

what we are confronted with in Indian health care and housing and

other related issues. I don’t believe that is too strong a word. But

to see this position unfulfilled for 2 full years is just plain wrong.

I hope we can resolve that and fix it.

So I will in 1 moment call up the first two witnesses, but let me

call on the vice chairman for comments.

STATEMENT OF HON. CRAIG THOMAS, U.S. SENATOR FROM

WYOMING, VICE CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

Senator THOMAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Certainly I share

your concern about the vacancy that has been here. It is past time

to fill it, and I am delighted that we are moving forward. I certainly support that.

I too talked to the Secretary of the Interior and certainly have

been working to get this going. I certainly want us to continue. I

extend my greetings to Mr. Artman and appreciate him being here

for the second time for his nomination. He has a varied background

in Government and the private sector, which is needed to fulfill all

the requirements for this position.

I also extend welcome to our witnesses this morning, Gerald

Danforth and Jacqueline Johnson. We are glad to have you here.

So again, I agree with the chairman that this vacancy has been

there too long. It is very important to have a voice right in the secretary’s group for the Indian tribes and the Indian affairs. So I

think we have a chance here, Mr. Chairman, to move forward, and

I support you and I am very pleased to have Mr. Artman be our

candidate.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Thomas, thank you very much.

Let me call our first two witnesses, Gerald Danforth, chairman

of the Oneida Tribe in Wisconsin; and also Jacqueline Johnson, executive director of the National Congress of American Indians here

in Washington, DC. Chairman Danforth and Ms. Johnson, thank

you very much.

Chairman Danforth, we will hear from you first. Welcome.

STATEMENT OF GERALD L. DANFORTH, CHAIRMAN, ONEIDA

TRIBE OF INDIANS OF WISCONSIN, ACCOMPANIED BY WILLIAM GOLLNICK, CHIEF OF STAFF

Mr. DANFORTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Vice

Chairman Thomas, good morning, honorable members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs.

I am Gerald Danforth, chairman for the Oneida Tribe of Indians

of Wisconsin. And I bring along a message from just less than

16,000 Oneidas of Wisconsin, expressing their pride and offering

our support and confidence in this particular candidate, Carl Joseph Artman.

As you just recalled, this past Congress, when this hearing was

first held to consider Carl, I was not able to attend at that time.

Our vice chair, Kathy Hughes, represented the Oneida Tribe at

that particular hearing. But I feel very privileged and honored to

be here to offer this testimony this morning.

Mr. Artman is a very bright and extremely hard-working individual. He has established a broad array of educational achievements

and has sought out many, many different diverse career opportuni-
3

ties to apply those achievements to. We believe that his academic

record and his professional experiences more than highly qualify

him for these responsibilities.

We know that the job of the assistant secretary is demanding. In

the best of circumstances, it is a very delicate balance of authority

and responsibility, and we believe that Carl Artman has demonstrated in many different ways his ability to fulfill those sort of

demanding circumstances to a very significant and good resolve.

I was at the listening session you made reference to, Mr. Chairman, this past Saturday. I spoke on behalf of Oneida then that we

believe that the committee’s priorities and the agenda that you

framed out were right on point and very much in line with what

ours were at home. In listening to it, I think there were probably,

I want to say 150 or 160 tribal leaders present on that Saturday

morning in Minnesota to attend that hearing. It was phenomenal.

So I appreciate your motivation and your desire to invigorate this

activity throughout Indian country. I think it was really appreciated by all who attended. I would like to note, too, that during

the course of that listening session, when you had made reference

to this appointment of the assistant secretary’s position coming forward in an expeditious sort of way, the resolve around the room

was very much in line with what your thoughts were. And I say

that because it is not just an Oneida thing, it is not just a Carl

Artman thing, it is about Indian country in general, and it is about

the United States of America and our Government, and the credibility of such.

I believe you have an excellent candidate to consider. Carl has

earned a juris doctorate, a masters of law, and a masters in business administration. I know that in his pursuit of those achievements, he has made a lot of sacrifices to accomplish those. As I

mentioned previously, I think even more importantly are the positions of responsibility that he has sought out to apply those talents

and skills. I think his experience is going to be tested on a regular

basis in his new responsibilities that I believe he will assume. I

think that we will all be satisfied by his choice and his selection

to fulfill that duty.

As the committee may recall in its records, different times in the

past, in 1976 and again in 1989, the committee had heard testimony from Oneida on different matters. Reference was made to

how the Oneida had assisted from the very early stages of the

United States the framework for establishing, for example, some of

the terms and principles of our constitution. Some of the values

and some of the core instruments outlined in the Iroquois Confederacy are examples of how our governments, how the Iroquois Government and how the U.S. Government have worked in very similar ways.

So I am proud to say that we can recall part of that history, and

I am proud to say that we have an Oneida member here today to

be considered for this position. And we believe that Carl Joseph

Artman will do so in fulfilling those responsibilities with honor and

distinction. Thank you.

[Prepared statement of Mr. Danforth appears in appendix.]
4

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. We appreciate your coming to Washington to provide testimony about a

member of your tribe who has been nominated by the President.

Next we will hear from Jacqueline Johnson, the executive director of the National Congress of American Indians. I understand

that you are here today on behalf of President Garcia.

STATEMENT OF JACQUELINE JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE

DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS

Ms. JOHNSON. Yes; President Garcia would have loved to have

been here, but they are having ceremonies and he is unable to

leave the Pueblo until Sunday. But as always, he extends his regards to this committee and to your leadership.

NCAI is really pleased and proud to be able to be here. It is our

first time to testify in the 110th Congress. But once again, to be

able to be here to tell you how much we appreciate the bipartisan

efforts that are done by this particular committee, being a nonprofit and a non-partisan organization, it is extremely important

for us to getting our work done that we do our work and move forward in our efforts in such a manner. I appreciate both your leadership, Senator Dorgan and Senator Thomas.

In Tulsa last year, a couple of years ago, actually, because we

have been waiting for this nomination to happen, as you noted,

Senator Dorgan, since February, 2 years ago, NCAI passed a resolution saying we wanted to an expeditious appointment of the Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs, because it is a critical role. It

is a critical position for Indian country. It is the position of a symbol, it is the position of where we hold some of our most revered

Native Americans who have held this position in the past.

Clearly, it is the symbol that tribes look to that see, even though

the Secretary of the Department of the Interior has the ultimate

trust responsibility delegated by Congress to be our trustee, but we

know that this position is the one that is the advocate within the

Administration. We see this person as being the one who has to

champion our causes with the White House, who has to represent

us when we are dealing with OMB and budget cuts, who has to

make hard decisions about how those budgets reflect the needs of

Indian country, who has to address the issues that we have with

our education, our health care, dealing with law enforcement, has

to help just organize the 10,000 staff members of the Bureau of Indian Affairs [BIA], who many times provides direct services to

tribes or also works very hard and diligently to provide the support

to tribes for self-governance tribes, helping to move forward the energy and the effort of Indian country.

Although we appreciate Jim Cason’s efforts in fulfilling that position in the last two years, he does not have the blessing of Congress. He does not hold that position as having his name nominated by the White House. He is not this particular President’s

nominee at the time.

And it is very important for us that this particular position gets

moving forward and we appreciate your efforts to do so. We find

that it is a shame that it has been 2 years, that the one position

that we all revere from Indian country has not moved forward.
5

Particularly, Carl Artman has met the task of having, you heard

Gerald Danforth’s testimony, and he has gone on and on about the

qualifications and the skills that Carl holds to be able to hold this

position. NCAI looks forward to working with someone with such

special skills, abilities and knowledge, to be able to work with and

to be able to make those kinds of decisions.

We know that as a primary advocate within the organization,

that he will have the responsibility of having to make critical decisions that are sometimes very controversial. Those decisions many

times have been held at bay and decisions have not been made. We

know that when someone is sitting in an acting position, we are all

waiting for the time when the real person will come in and set the

direction as far as reorganization.

So we look forward to your moving forward the nomination, to

be able to move those issues forward, so that some of those decisions that have been held far too long can move forward.

But the most important thing that I think that this position carries is the symbolism and the responsibility of government to government relationships, the responsibility of consultation, the one

that I know that you hold and revere, the reason why you went out

and have said that you wanted to go forward and have these consultations around Indian country, to be able to hear from tribal

leadership.

This is a position that holds that responsibility. One of the main

features of his position is to consult with tribes and with Indian

country, to be able to bring in the input, the recommendations to

help us move forward, the vision. So I would like to support Chairman Danforth’s recommendation. I would like to support the President’s nomination, I would like to support you in your efforts to

move forward this name, Carl Artman, for the Senate to confirm,

and with all of Indian country, we stand forward in wanting to

have an Indian at the helm of the BIA. We want to make sure that

is a practice that we maintain for the future. It is very important

for us to know that one of our own can lead our direction.

Thank you very much.

[Prepared statement of Ms. Johnson appears in appendix.]

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Johnson, thank you very much. Thanks to

both of you.

Let me say that we look forward to working with the president

of the National Congress and Tribal Chair Danforth. Thank you for

being here.

Let me just ask one question. We have been joined by other colleagues, then we will hear from Mr. Artman.

As I indicated last year, the Congress, this committee, I should

say, passed out the nomination unanimously, I believe, to the floor

of the Senate. There was an anonymous hold placed on the nomination. Do either of you have any knowledge of why an anonymous

hold would be placed on this nomination? Is there anything about

the nomination that you think would justify somebody trying to

hold it up?

Mr. DANFORTH. None whatsoever that I am aware of.

Ms. JOHNSON. I do know that there was the hold placed on the

nomination. I personally talked to some of the folks who may have

been responsible for the hold with the Republican Steering Com-
6

mittee. And there was concern about the nomination, the Oneida

Nation’s, his position he held with gaming. It was a time when the

Republican Steering Committee was placing a hold on all Indian

bills for further review, particularly those that were moving forward under UC, felt that they didn’t get the proper review.

We at NCAI wanted to express, went to that meeting, I personally went to that meeting to express my concern that even though

the President could have a recess appointment, that that wasn’t

the message that we wanted to have. We felt very clearly that this

position is significant enough to Indian country. It is critical

enough to our relationships with the Federal Government that it

needed to have the confirmation and support of the members of

Congress. That was our message that we gave forward.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, obviously I am asking more about the intrigue of the U.S. Senate. So it is a question that we will perhaps

better ask inside this institution, but I wanted just to get your

sense from outside about what you have heard on this.

We have been joined by a former chairman of this committee for

many years, Senator Inouye. We have a former chairman, Senator

McCain, still on the committee, and a vice chairman, Senator

Thomas. My hope would be that we can move the nomination today

and I will hope to put together something from Senator Thomas,

myself, Senator McCain, Senator Inouye, the current leadership of

the committee and the former chairman of the committee to see if

we can’t move this very quickly.

After 2 years, at long, long last, this position should be filled. It

should have been filled a long time ago. But we are going to work

very hard to get that done.

Senator Thomas.

Senator THOMAS. I don’t have any questions. Thank you both for

being here, and I am enthusiastic about moving forward as anyone

can be. So we will try and do it. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Tester.

Senator TESTER. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Inouye.

Senator INOUYE. I am ready to vote.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Inouye is ready to vote. [Laughter.]

First we have to hear from Mr. Artman. But we will then vote.

Let me say, Senator Inouye, as you recall, last fall, last September,

we had heard from Mr. Artman and he comes again today. Let me

thank the two witnesses for being with us, again. Chairman Danforth, thank you for traveling to Washington to represent your

tribe. We appreciate the testimony of both of you.

Now I would like to call forward Mr. Artman. Carl J. Artman is

the President’s nominee to be the Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs in the Department of the Interior.

Mr. Artman, as I indicated, has previously appeared before this

committee. At that point I believe your family was with you, Mr.

Artman. I don’t believe they are with you today, but you may correct me. Mr. Artman offered a statement to this committee, this

committee evaluated his qualifications and credentials at that point

and I believe unanimously approved this nomination. Then it was

subject to a hold and never came to a vote in the United States

Senate. To the extent that we can, we intend to correct that.
7

But as a formal matter, we wish to hear from you again and be

able to ask you a few questions, Mr. Artman. Why don’t you proceed? Welcome to the committee. If you do have family present,

please feel free to introduce them.

STATEMENT OF CARL J. ARTMAN, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT

SECRETARY, INDIAN AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE

INTERIOR

Mr. ARTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Vice Chairman,

for holding this hearing today, and thank you, Senator Inouye and

Senator Tester, for being here as well.

Mr. Chairman, I do not have family here today, though my son

did want to come. But I am finding as he is in kindergarten, he

is starting to find any excuse he can to get out of school. But we

left him there today. [Laughter.]

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, and Senators, my name is

Carl Artman. It is a privilege and an honor to appear before you

this morning seeking your confirmation of my nomination by President Bush to be the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs.

I am a member of the Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin, one

of the six Nations of the Haudenosaunee, or the Iroquois Confederacy. I have served my tribe in various positions, ranging from the

tribal representative in Washington, DC to chief operating officer

of a telecommunications partnership to chief counsel of the tribe’s

legal office. I am currently the Associate Solicitor for Indian Affairs

in the Office of the Solicitor at the Department of the Interior.

I am honored to have been nominated by President Bush, and

look forward to the opportunities that lie ahead. Secretary Kempthorne and I have had numerous conversations about Native American matters. I share Secretary Kempthorne’s views on education,

economic development, substance abuse and other matters relevant

and important to tribal governments.

I look forward to sharing the Secretary’s vision for the relationship between the Department of the Interior and Indian country

and encouraging a conversation about that relationship. The Secretary has expressed his confidence in me to bring what he has described as an ambassadorial nature to the position of Assistant Secretary.

Indian country provides an overwhelming number of challenges,

ranging from substance abuse, high unemployment rates, crumbling infrastructure. Then there are the issues that are unique to

Indian country, such as the retention of sovereignty, maintaining

and expanding self-governance and self-determination.

If you were to ask me why I want this job, my answer would be

that I am drawn to respond to those seemingly insurmountable obstacles for Indians and Alaska Natives. However, I see the determination and the potential of Indians and Alaska Natives. Reservation populations are growing. Leaders are digging in to stem the

spread of substance abuse and the lawlessness that follows in its

wake. Teachers at tribal schools provide more with less and inch

by inch, tribes are reclaiming their land and the inherent rights of

that ownership.

As Indians and Alaska Native reclaim rights lost through history, societal plagues, the Department of the Interior must be their
8

partner in these battles. I will contribute to a more accessible and

expeditious Bureau of Indian Affairs [BIA] and Bureau of Indian

Education to assist tribal communities to develop their natural, political and socio-economic infrastructures.

A primary goal of mine will be the measurable engagement in

the battle to eradicate methamphetamine abuse from reservations

and tribal communities. I will focus on three areas, meant to work

in concert to be the beginning of the end of that cancer. First, I

want to bolster the power of the BIA’s Office of Justice Services to

offer assistance in the form of money, manpower, technology, and

education to the tribes that need the most assistance.

Second, I want to ensure that the good work that has already

begun at the Bureau of Indian Education continues. A reorganized

regional structure and a focus on the foundational needs of the students will result in an excellent education for the students that are

enrolled in the second largest school system in the Nation.

And third, I will focus on economic development in Indian country. The Department’s Office of Economic and Energy Development

will become both a resource and a thought leader in economic development in Indian country.

I will continue the discussion about methamphetamine abuse

that was started by the Secretary with the leaders of all facets of

the broader tribal community. I will listen for where the Department and the Federal Government may help tribes and their members gain traction in this fight.

The Department of the Interior can and will be a positive force

in Indian country. And if confirmed, I will lay the foundation for

an era that will provide new commitments through action to programmatic goals and mandated duties. If confirmed, I will foster an

interaction borne of partnership and mutual goals, not just fiduciary requirements.

And if confirmed, I will use the Office of Assistant Secretary for

Indian Affairs to promote communications between tribes that have

realized financial success and those that strive for a fraction of that

success to move beyond mere subsistence benefits for their membership. The success of one tribe, either in business, government

administration or cultural preservation, is the best incubator for

the success of other tribes.

I will use the office to promote more vibrant and goal-oriented

communications between tribes and their neighbors. I hope to foster the growth of tribal governments. Tribal sovereignty is inherent, and this sovereignty is best exhibited in a vibrant tribal government that understands the judicious exercise of its jurisdiction

for the benefits of its members and the seventh generation.

Tribal governments embody the power of sovereignty. It cares for

the present and plans for the future, and is what the outside examines to judge the health of that tribe. To lead their people and improve the communities, tribal governments must be able to fight

the obstacles that foster hopelessness. If confirmed, I will bring

forth the potential of the breadth and depth of the Department of

the Interior and specifically the Office of the Assistant Secretary

for Indian Affairs, so that Indians and Alaska Natives can use

these resources, their resources, to conquer the problems bearing

down on their governments and their people, to gain that foothold
9

that will propel them upward and to preserve a culture and build

a legacy and to provide a future for their seventh generation that

is as great as their past.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, and

Senators.

[Prepared statement of Mr. Artman appears in appendix.]

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Artman, thank you for your statement today,

and the discussion that we have had previously.

Let me just ask a couple of questions then call on my colleagues.

We have had a number of assistant secretaries of Indian affairs.

Some have been fairly aggressive and have made some modest difference in certain areas. Some have left the office without having

made any apparent changes, or having made any difference in

what has happened on Indian reservations.

I did hold a listening session in Minneapolis on Saturday. There

was a large number of people there. One tribal chair stood up and

told about his two daughters, reminded me again of the third world

conditions that exist in some areas, the gripping, wrenching poverty, and the challenges that we face. He said he has two daughters, one has eight children, one has three children. Both live in

used trailers that have been brought to his reservation from the

State of Michigan. I believe he said both of them heat their trailers

with wood stoves, neither trailer has running water and they have

outdoor toilets.

If you describe that, people would say, well, that is obviously in

some other part of the world. But it is here. And you see it in too

many places.

So when you start with the issue of education, health care, housing, and then all the other issues, you mentioned methamphetamine, you could have mentioned alcohol abuse and gangs, and so

many challenges that these tribal chairs and tribal councils face in

many ways with limited resources. I just think that this position

needs to be filled by someone who is very aggressive and interested

in working on unique and aggressive approaches to these things.

I am going to put together in the middle of this year, some time

in the summer, a summit on economic development here in Washington, DC, to see if we can think of new ways, outside the box,

to begin dealing with these issues. There is no social program quite

as important as a good job that pays well for people who are able

to work. And yet the rampant unemployment in circumstances

where there are no jobs is something we have to confront as well,

because that relates to almost all the other things I have said.

The diabetes scourge on the Indian reservations, we have to deal

with that. Indian Health Service is engaged in health care rationing for American Indians. We have so many issues. I spoke on the

floor the other day and told of a woman having a heart attack who

was wheeled into a hospital on a gurney with a piece of paper

taped to her leg that said to the hospital, there is no money for contract health services. So understand if you admit this woman, you

are on your own, hospital.

It is unbelievable. So that is why I felt so strongly about the 2

years that this position has been vacant. I feel so strongly about

getting your nomination done. But that is just the first baby step.
10

The second step is for you to use this position to really make a

difference.

So I guess what I will do is submit a few questions to you, but

I have done that previously. I would just say this. I am comfortable

with your nomination. You are well qualified to assume this position. I hope you will assume this position, if we can move this

through the Senate, with great energy and dedication and conviction to meet some goals that we can establish together that will

really make a difference for the First Americans.

Senator Thomas.

Senator THOMAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Artman, we are glad you are here. I look forward to supporting the chairman’s continued effort on the Senate to get this job

done.

Let me ask you a couple of questions. You submitted materials

to the committee that recused yourself from issues on your tribe in

Wisconsin. As an associate solicitor, can you tell me what issues

you recused yourself from?

Mr. ARTMAN. At the moment, the only issue within the solicitor’s

office that has required my recusal so far has been any issue that

has dealt with the Iroquois Confederacy’s land claim in the State

of New York. The Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin is part of

that land claim and that dates back to about 1804. It has been ongoing since. I have not participated in any of those discussions or

decisions.

Senator THOMAS. So you have recused yourself from gaming applications in Wisconsin or New York that would present a conflict?

Mr. ARTMAN. Where it involves Oneida. And in New York, it

clearly involves Oneida.

Senator THOMAS. Good. I have been particularly and continue to

be particularly interested in the economic development. I think

that if the tribes are going to have sovereign nations, they have to

have a sovereign economy as well, or close to it.

Do you have any policy recommendations or thoughts that would

help create non-gaming jobs on the reservations?

Mr. ARTMAN. I intend to work very closely with the Department

of the Interior’s Office of Indian Economic and Energy Development. In its name, it certainly provides hint as to one of the outlets

for economic development, and that is in energy development,

where it is possible, on the reservations. But not all reservations

have that opportunity.

In speaking with the director of that office, Bob Middleton, he

and I have discussed several initiatives that we can engage in right

away to begin the process of thinking about economic development

and then hopefully eventually putting it in place. That includes

bringing the tribes together, as I mentioned in my opening statement, bringing the tribe that have realized financial success in

whatever venture they may have entered into. For example, the

Southern Utes, with their energy economic development, they have

realized tremendous success. And have them be a guide for other

tribes that are out there.

Bring the academic world into this. I know he has already started speaking with deans from business schools. I would like to see

students on reservations looking at the situations and giving their
11

ideas, some fresh ideas. And bringing together leaders from Indian

tribal governments, finance, business, business education to begin

to look at where other opportunities exist.

Then if you look at any calendar year, there are many, many economic development conferences. This year the White House is

hosting one for Indian economic development. And as Chairman

Dorgan mentioned, Congress, this committee, will be hosting a

summit on economic development as well.

But there are also many private ones out there, or ones that are

held by tribes. What I would like to do is see if we can’t coordinate

that calendar, on whatever basis, annual basis, 18 month basis, so

that there is actually a learning curve in that, so tribal leaders are

going to those, and as they go to one and they go to the next one,

actually they are moving up in the learning process. And by the

end of the process, hopefully ideas and money are coming together

to have real economic development within Indian country.

Senator THOMAS. Good. Well, energy development, of course, is

very important in our area of the country and the opportunities are

there. I think we just need to make sure the tribal members understand that they can benefit from this type of economic development.

As you know, many Senators are concerned about off-reservation

gaming. How strict should the Department be in evaluating off-reservation gaming into trust for gaming purposes?

Mr. ARTMAN. Right now, the Secretary of the Interior is very concerned about off-reservation gaming. I think he has made that

clear.

Right now, a letter is being developed that will be sent to the

tribes that have applications into the Department of the Interior

for off-reservation gaming, telling them of the Secretary’s concerns

and noting for them that the Secretary and other people within the

Department, myself if confirmed, and myself as associate solicitor

currently, will be looking at these issues and trying to figure out

a way to better manage it, to lay out guidelines, to lay out parameters, both for the applicants and the reviewers, and also, importantly, for the communities surrounding them, so that everybody

can have input into the process.

I imagine, at the end of the review process that the letter will

refer to, that you are going to see significant changes in the section

20 regulations and the 151 regulations, section 20 dealing with the

off-reservation gaming, Section 151 dealing with the land into

trust. Hopefully these changes will be able to give everybody a

clear idea of what will be acceptable for off-reservation gaming.

The Secretary’s primary concern is with the two-part determination, the section in the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act that deals

with the potentially far-flung lands. And many of the applications

that are currently before the Department of the Interior are just

that, the far-flung lands.

So he wants to be very careful to ensure that what is being considered there does not somehow impact the very basis for Indian

gaming to begin with.

Senator THOMAS. Thank you very much.
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Mr. ARTMAN. I should note also, Vice Chairman Thomas, that I

completely support that, and I will be active in the development of

those regulations and parameters.

Senator THOMAS. We appreciate your efforts. I certainly am very

enthusiastic about the potential for economic development, particularly in the west where the energy potential is there, and we simply need to encourage the tribal members to understand that they

will benefit from that sort of economic development.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Senator Tester.

Senator TESTER. First of all, thanks, Carl, for stopping in the

other day so we could have a visit in the office. I am just going to

do one question here, and that is, it dove-tails off what the chairman talked about in his remarks, and that is the aggressiveness

of this position and how you have to be aggressive to really get

things done. Jacqueline Johnson talked about outreach to tribes.

My question is, how will you reach out to tribes so that you can

represent their needs in sum, in whole?

Mr. ARTMAN. Thank you, Senator. And thank you for hosting me

the other day. It was a pleasure meeting you and speaking with

you.

In reaching out to the tribe, certainly we can rely on the consultation process, which is already in place. The consultation process, since the beginning, it is evolving as to what exactly that

means. If confirmed, during my tenure as assistant secretary for

Indian Affairs, I would like to reach out to tribes and have not just

a consultation, but to have a conversation, an ongoing conversation

about what issues are out there affecting them.

As I have mentioned already to President Garcia and other tribal

leaders, I would like to sit down with them on a relatively regular

basis, not to talk about anything specific, but let’s hear what they

feel is going on in Indian country, what are their concerns and how

does that mesh with the Department of the Interior, and likewise,

they need to hear open conversation from the Department of the

Interior on where we are going and what we are going to be doing

and how we are going to be helping them. Or what we may be

doing that may impact them in other ways, be it these off-reservation gaming parameters or perhaps in the area of economic development, oil, Indian valuations.

This way people are not surprised. This way people can contribute to the process early on.

Senator TESTER. When you think of outreach, do you anticipate

the tribes coming to you, or are you going to go to them?

Mr. ARTMAN. Both, Senator Tester. Certainly as Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs, if confirmed, I need to get out to Indian

country and visit them. I need to visit the tribes and see what challenges they are facing or see what they have done on their reservations that is worth repeating elsewhere.

Senator TESTER. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cantwell.
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STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL, U.S. SENATOR FROM

WASHINGTON

Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not going to

ask any questions this morning, in order to save myself and the

committee time. I am going to submit some individual questions.

With 27 tribes in the northwest, we have some pretty unique issues

and interests, everything from the Makah Tribe out on our peninsula, to a variety of other issues. So I think what I will do is just

submit those questions to you.

Mr. ARTMAN. Thank you, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cantwell, thank you very much.

Let me just make one final comment. Senator McCain and I last

year were made aware that 18 years after the law was enacted putting into place the off-reservation gaming issue, and the process by

which applications are made and so on, 18 years later, there are

no regulations in place. We asked Mr. Skibine from the Department to tell us why this is the case, he said they are being developed.

Would you check on that and find out for us, is there at long,

long last a plan to get some regulations in place to deal with this

issue of off-reservation gaming applications?

Mr. ARTMAN. If I may, Mr. Chairman, today actually is the close

of the comment period for the section 20 regulations. The comments will be reviewed, we have received many comments. In

speaking with Mr. Skibine yesterday, he hopes that these regulations will be published this spring.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Artman, thank you very much. I want to

thank the witnesses today.

Mr. Artman, I appreciate your being here and your being willing

to serve our country.

I now move the committee to a business meeting to consider Mr.

Artman’s nomination.

[Whereupon, at 10:05, the committee proceeded to other business.]

(15)

APPENDIX

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

PREPARED STATEMENT OF CARL J. ARTMAN, NOMINEE FOR THE POSITION OF

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INDIAN AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, Senators, my name is Carl Artman. It is a

privilege and an honor to appear before you this morning seeking your confirmation

of my nomination by President Bush to be the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs.

I am a member of the Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin, one of six Indian

nations of the Haudenosaunee, or Iroquois Confederacy. I have served my tribe in

positions ranging from the tribal representative in Washington, DC to Chief Operating Officer in a telecommunications partnership, to, most recently, Chief Counsel of

the tribe. I currently serve as the Associate Solicitor for Indian Affairs in the Office

of the Solicitor within the Department of the Interior.

I am honored to have been nominated by President Bush and look forward to the

opportunities that lie ahead.

Secretary Kempthorne and I have had numerous conversations about Native

American matters. I share Secretary Kempthorne’s views on education, economic development, substance abuse, and other matters important to tribal governments. I

look forward to sharing the Secretary’s vision for the relationship between the Department of the Interior and Indian country, and in encouraging a conversation

about that relationship. The Secretary has expressed his confidence in me to bring

what he has described as an ambassadorial nature to the position of assistant secretary.

Indian country provides an overwhelming number of challenges: Substance abuse,

high unemployment rates on many reservations, lack of adequate health care, dilapidated education facilities, crumbling infrastructures from roads to irrigation

ditches, and crime outpacing law enforcement personnel and funds. And then there

are the issues unique to Indian country such as the retention of sovereignty and

maintaining and expanding self-governance and self-determination.

If you were to ask me why I want this job, my answer would be that I am drawn

to respond to those seemingly insurmountable obstacles for Indians and Alaskan

Natives. I see the determination and the potential of Indians and Alaskan Natives.

Reservation populations are growing. Leaders are digging in to stem the spread of

substance abuse and the lawlessness that follows in its wake. Teachers at tribal

schools provide more with less. Inch by inch tribes are reclaiming their land and

the inherent rights of such ownership.

As Indians and Alaskan Natives reclaim rights lost through history or societal

plagues, the Department of the Interior must be their partner in these battles. I

will contribute to a more accessible and expeditious Bureau of Indian Affairs and

Bureau of Indian Education to assist tribal and Alaskan Native communities to develop their natural, political, and socio-economic infrastructure.

A primary goal of mine will be measurable engagement in the battle to eradicate

methamphetamine abuse from reservations and tribal communities. I will focus on

three areas meant to work in concert to be the beginning of the end of this cancer.
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First, I want to bolster the power of the BIA’s Office of Justice Services to offer assistance in the form of money, manpower, technology, and education to the tribes

that need the most assistance. Second, I want to ensure the good work that has already begun in the Bureau of Indian Education continues. A reorganized regional

structure and a focus on foundational needs will result in an excellent education for

the students enrolled in the second largest school system in the Nation. And third,

I will focus on economic development in Indian country. The Department’s Office of

Indian Economic and Energy Development will become both a resource and a

thought leader in economic development in Indian country. We will bring together

influential leaders from Indian governments, finance, business, and business education to focus on the development of sustainable tribal economies.

I will continue the discussion, started by the Secretary, with leaders of all facets

of the broader tribal community; and I will listen for where the Department and

Federal Government may help tribes and their members gain traction.

The Department of the Interior can and will be a positive force in Indian country.

If confirmed, I will lay the foundation for an era that will provide new commitments, through action, to programmatic goals and mandated duties.

If confirmed, I will foster an interaction born of a partnership and mutual goals,

not just fiduciary requirements.

If confirmed, I will use the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs to

promote communications between tribes that have realized financial success and

those that strive for a fraction of that success to move beyond provision of subsistence benefits for their membership. The success of one tribe, either in business, government administration, or cultural preservation, is the best incubator for success

of other tribes.

I will use the office to promote more vibrant and goal-oriented communications

between tribes and their neighbors.

I hope to foster the growth of tribal governments. Tribal sovereignty is inherent,

and this sovereignty is best exhibited in a vibrant tribal government that understands judicious exercise of its jurisdiction for the benefits of its members and the

seventh generation. Tribal governments embody the power of sovereignty. It cares

for the present and plans for the future. It is what the outside examines to judge

the health of the tribe.

To lead their people and improve their communities, tribal governments must be

able to fight the obstacles that foster hopelessness. If confirmed, I will bring forth

the potential of the breadth and depth of the Department of the Interior, and specifically the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs, so that Indians and

Alaskan Natives can use these resources—their resources—to conquer the problems

bearing down on their governments and people, to gain that foothold that will propel

them upward, to preserve a culture and build a legacy, and to provide a future for

their seventh generation that is as great as their past.

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, and Senators, thank you.
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PREPARED STATEMENT OF GERALD L. DANFORTH, CHAIRMAN, ONEIDA TRIBE OF

INDIANS OF WISCONSIN

Good morning Chairman Dorgan, Vice Chairman Thomas and honorable committee members.

My name is Gerald Danforth and I am chairman of the Oneida Tribe of Indians

of Wisconsin. I am extremely honored to be here with you today. As you will recall,

when Carl Artman first came before this committee in the last Congress, other

pressing issues precluded my attendance. Today I am privileged to bring you greetings from our nearly 16,000 members who share their pride today as I come forward

to express our support and confidence in one of our enrolled members, Carl Artman.

Mr. Artman is a bright and extremely hard-working individual who has a broad

and distinguished academic background. For such a young man, he has a wide arrange of skills and broad diversity of experience upon which to draw from in the

exercise of his duties as Assistant Secretary of the Interior. It brings me great pride

to know that voices of support for Mr. Artman have come from all comers of Indian

country. I am encouraged, as are many other tribal leaders throughout Indian country as demonstrated at the listening session in Minneapolis this past Saturday, that

this committee has moved so expeditiously to fill this critical position—one that has

remained vacant for 2 years. I believe that you will be considering an exceptional

candidate.

Carl Artman has earned a Juris Doctorate, an L.L.M. [Master of Laws] and a

Master of Business Administration Degree. He is familiar with the legal and economic forces that demand consideration by this office. His experience serving Congressman Oxley and representing our nation in Washington provides him with

unique preparation and familiarity with Capital Hill and Indian country. He comes

before you with the array of attributes necessary to engage this administration, understand the relationship with Congress, and appreciate the unique and common

issues affecting the Indian nations. I believe Mr. Artman’s experience thoroughly

qualifies him for this position.

Mr. Chairman, in 1976 and again in 1989 this very committee heard testimony

regarding the role of our nation in the founding of the United States, the incorporation of many of our governmental concepts into the American constitution, and our

commitment to the Colonies in the Revolutionary War . . . commitments that helped

found and secure America. Our people’s long and proud tradition in support of this

country . . . tradition of government of and by the people . . . tradition of leaders

as true public servants guides us and certainly guides Carl. It is therefore fitting

and proper that an Oneida now comes forward to hold this high post. We believe

that Carl Artman will do so with honor and distinction.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JACQUELINE JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL

CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS

Chairman Dorgan, Vice Chairman Thomas and distinguished members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, on behalf of the National Congress of American

Indians I want to thank you for the opportunity to provide our views on the nomination of Carl Artman to be the next Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs. This is

the first time that we have testified before the committee in the 110th Congress,

and I want to reinforce with you how much we appreciate the bipartisan manner

in which this committee conducts its business. NCAI has always operated as a nonpartisan organization, and we strongly support this committee’s tradition of bipartisan cooperation in developing Federal policy for American Indian and Alaska Native

communities.

On behalf of the National Congress of American Indians, we urge the Senate to

move forward on confirmation of Carl Artman to be the Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs. Mr. Artman has the necessary experience for this important job, having served as the Associate Solicitor for Indian Affairs for the Department of the

Interior for the past 1 year, and having worked as an attorney in the field of Indian

affairs for many years. We attach a copy of NCAI Resolution TUL–05–17 urging

confirmation of a nominee with this level of experience and expertise.

We also urge a swift confirmation of the President’s appointment because this is

an extremely important position for Indian tribes and Indian people, and the position has been vacant for 2 years. The Assistant Secretary leads the Bureau of Indian Affairs [BIA], an agency with 10,000 employees and an annual budget of $2.2

billion. The BIA provides critical services and infrastructure in law enforcement,

education, social services, transportation and land, and natural resources management; and the Assistant Secretary is the primary advocate for these programs and

services within the Administration. James Cason, the Associate Deputy Secretary
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has been fulfilling these responsibilities on a temporary basis since February 2005.

We greatly appreciate the work that Mr. Cason has done, but the BIA requires an

appointee who has the approval of the Senate to provide the leadership and direction that it needs.

The BIA is also at a critical time on policy direction and reorganization, and needs

the Assistant Secretary to lead these efforts in consultation with tribal leadership.

For example, law enforcement and tribal courts are a top priority of tribal leadership, particularly with the growing methamphetamine epidemic that is affecting so

many reservations. We expect that these areas will see increases in the President’s

budget for fiscal year 2008, and we will need strong leadership at the BIA to make

sure that these increases are implemented effectively. As you know, trust reform

and land management have been critical issues for many years, a settlement is

under discussion, reorganization is underway and there is a major effort to revise

the trust regulations. We need a leader at the BIA to facilitate those efforts. I could

go on and on with the list of important responsibilities—like education and No Child

Left Behind—but I don’t want to alarm Mr. Artman with too long of a list. He will

have to tackle them one at a time.

The Assistant Secretary also has an important decisionmaking role that affects

individual tribes—and many of these decisions have been on hold for too long. Construction of schools and roads, allocation of police, water rights settlements, approval of leases, et cetera. Sometimes these decisions can be controversial, such as

some land-to-trust applications. The Assistant Secretary has to balance competing

interests and make decisions. Of course we always want the decisions to favor Indian tribes, but whether the decision is yes or no, it is important to have decisions

made so the tribes can move forward with their planning and efforts.

If I have one piece of advice for Mr. Artman, it is to focus on government-to-government consultation. The key is to communicate with tribes early before decisions

are made, have an open mind and talk about problems and solutions. You will be

amazed at how much tribal leaders want to be a part of the solution as long as their

concerns are respected and included in making the decision. One of the strongest

powers of the Assistant Secretary is to bring parties together and urge them to negotiate solutions. Tribal leaders will listen to you and respect you because you are

the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs.

That brings me to my final point. It is important to fill the position of Assistant

Secretary for Indian Affairs because the position plays such an important role in

the relationship between the Federal Government and Indian tribes. Prior to 1977,

the Commissioner of Indian Affairs was most often a non-Indian administrator and

a symbol of paternalism. The position of Assistant Secretary was created as part of

the implementation of the Federal policy of tribal self-determination, and ever since

that time the position has been held by a talented Indian person who was accorded

significant respect by tribal leaders. The Assistant Secretary elevated the status of

the job and put an Indian into the position. The importance of this is not lost on

tribal leaders. Forrest Gerard, Ada Deer, Kevin Gover, Neal McCaleb—these are accomplished Indian people that we have looked up to as symbols of our ability to take

control of our own futures.

Carl Artman now has the opportunity to join this distinguished company and help

lead the Federal-tribal relationship into the future. Tribal leaders are working to

fulfill a vision of transitioning the BIA to a system where there is active participation and management by tribal governments, while the BIA fulfills its trust responsibility to protect Indian lands, oversee regulations and enforcement, and provide

technical assistance and funding for critical services. We have a vision of a partnership where tribes and the BIA manage reservation lands for their intended purpose—providing a homeland and economy for Indian people. NCAI urges the Senate

to consider Mr. Artman’s nomination as soon as possible so that he can move forward with this important work.
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