S. HRG. 114–500 

PENDING LEGISLATION 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

S. 1167 S. 2018 

S. 1423 S. 2223 

S. 1510 S. 2379 

S. 1699 S. 2383 

S. 1777 

APRIL 21, 2016 

( 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

PENDING LEGISLATION 

U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

21–976 2018

S. HRG. 114–500 

PENDING LEGISLATION 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING 

OF THE 

COMMITTEE ON 

ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

S. 1167 S. 2018 

S. 1423 S. 2223 

S. 1510 S. 2379 

S. 1699 S. 2383 

S. 1777 

APRIL 21, 2016 

( 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES 

LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman 

JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming 

JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho 

MIKE LEE, Utah 

JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana 

CORY GARDNER, Colorado 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

AL FRANKEN, Minnesota 

JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia 

MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico 

MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii 

ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine 

ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

JOHN BARRASSO, Chairman 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO 

JAMES E. RISCH 

MIKE LEE 

STEVE DAINES 

BILL CASSIDY 

CORY GARDNER 

JOHN HOEVEN 

JEFF FLAKE 

LAMAR ALEXANDER 

RON WYDEN 

DEBBIE STABENOW 

AL FRANKEN 

JOE MANCHIN III 

MARTIN HEINRICH 

MAZIE K. HIRONO 

ELIZABETH WARREN 

COLIN HAYES, Staff Director 

PATRICK J. MCCORMICK III, Chief Counsel 

LUCY MURFITT, Senior Counsel and Public Lands and Natural Resources Director 

ANGELA BECKER-DIPPMANN, Democratic Staff Director 

SAM E. FOWLER, Democratic Chief Counsel 

DAVID BROOKS, Democratic General Counsel 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Barrasso, Hon. John, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Wyoming ...................................................................................................................... 1 

Wyden, Hon. Ron, Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 

Oregon ................................................................................................................... 2 

Lee, Hon. Mike, a U.S. Senator from Utah ........................................................... 3 

Flake, Hon. Jeff, a U.S. Senator from Arizona ..................................................... 4 

Risch, Hon. James E., a U.S. Senator from Idaho ................................................ 4 

WITNESSES 

Casamassa, Glenn, Associate Deputy Chief, National Forest System, U.S. 

Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture ................................................ 8 

Pool, Mike, Acting Deputy Director for Operations, Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Department of the Interior ............................................................... 25 

Whelan, Major General Martin, Director of Future Operations, Deputy Chief 

of Staff for Operations, Headquarters, U.S. Air Force; accompanied by 

Miller, Jennifer, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Installations, U.S. Air 

Force ...................................................................................................................... 55 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED 

Alaska Bible College: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 84 

Alderson, George and Frances: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 86 

Alexander, Alice: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 87 

American Forest Resource Council: 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1510 ......................................................... 88 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1699 ......................................................... 91 

American Rivers: 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1423 ......................................................... 94 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1510 ......................................................... 96 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1699 ......................................................... 98 

Bailey, Marcia: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 100 

Baker, Dr. Norman: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 101 

Barrasso, Hon. John: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 1 

Bilodeau, Katheryn (and Jeremiah Busch): 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 102 

Blackshear, Sherry and Ronald: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 106 

Page

IV 

Bowen, Betsy: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 107 

Boxer, Hon. Barbara: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 64 

Brandt, Vicky: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 108 

Brownley, Hon. Julia, et al.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 111 

Brumlik, Mr. & Mrs. Daniel: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 109 

Brunstad, Harold: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 110 

Capps, Hon. Lois, et al.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 111 

Casamassa, Glenn: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 8 

Written Testimony ............................................................................................ 10 

Responses to Questions for the Record ........................................................... 74 

Cascadia Wildlands: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 113 

Chilcoat, Rose: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 115 

Clark/Gamble, Carolyn and Rick: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 118 

Combs, Tom and Kristin: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 119 

Crapo, Hon. Mike: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 120 

Crawford, Dennis: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 122 

Curtis, Richard: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 123 

DeVane, Connor: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 125 

Dobkevich, Judith: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 126 

Dubrosky, Doug: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 127 

Durr, Greg: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 128 

Durr, Rebecca: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 129 

Ecotrust Forest Management: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 130 

Farr, Hon. Sam, et al.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 111 

Feltham, Wendy: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 132 

Flake, Hon. Jeff: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 4 

Friends of the Kalmiopsis and Soda Mountain Wilderness Council: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 133 

Gershten, Dr. Mitchell: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 137 

Page

V 

Giedt, Jean: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 138 

Graber, Michael: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 139 

Hansen, Bev: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 140 

Havrilla, Robert: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 141 

Hayden, Anne: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 142 

Hazelleaf, Tom: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 143 

Hill, Paul and Ann: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 144 

Hilscher, Hilary (and Neil Johannsen): 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 145 

Huesemann, Drs. Michael and Joyce: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 146 

Janzen, Gayle: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 148 

Jayne, Jerry: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 150 

Jeffries, Tim: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 151 

Johnson, Reid: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 152 

Johnson, Steven: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 153 

Kalmiopsis Audubon Society: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 154 

Klamath-Siskiyou Wildlands Center: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 156 

Klein, Nora: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 157 

Kloefkorn, Walter: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 158 

Kotler, Danielia: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 159 

Krafchuk, Bonnie: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 160 

Kring, Juli: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 161 

Kuntz, Laurie: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 162 

Lambeth, Larry: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 163 

Langton, Kimber: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 164 

Larkin, Beau: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 165 

Lasley, Louise: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 166 

Lee, Hon. Mike: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 3 

Page

VI 

Lipschik, Matthew: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 167 

Lish, Christopher: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 168 

Liss, Tonia: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 169 

Loeschen, Doris: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 170 

Magliola, Lawrence: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 171 

Mantooth, Roberta and James: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 172 

McCarthy, Michael: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 173 

McKeon, Renae: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 175 

McPhee, Joe: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 176 

Meeks, Mark: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 177 

Menard, Jana: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 178 

Messmer, Jim: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 179 

Moser, Rich: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 180 

Mueller, Tara: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 181 

Murray, Hon. Patty: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 62 

Nagel, Clinton: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 182 

National Park Service, U.S. Department of the Interior: 

Statement for the Record regarding S. 1510 .................................................. 53 

Neumann, David: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 184 

North Olympic Timber Action Committee: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 186 

Null, Ciry: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 190 

Oakes, Elizabeth: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 191 

Oliver, Judith: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 192 

Olson, Dr. Sherry: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 193 

Olympic Peninsula Audubon Society: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 194 

Oregon Wild, et al.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 196 

Orzechowski, Larry: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 198 

Penry, Marlene: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 199 

Page

VII 

(The) Pew Charitable Trusts: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 200 

Pool, Mike: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 25 

Written Testimony ............................................................................................ 27 

Responses to Questions for the Record ........................................................... 77 

Port of Port Angeles, Washington: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 203 

Potter, Dave and Kirsten: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 205 

Probst, Richard and Kelly: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 206 

Rankin, Michael: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 207 

Reed, Mary: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 248 

Risch, Hon. James E.: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 4 

Written Statement for the Record regarding S. 1167 .................................... 5 

Written Statement for the Record regarding S. 1777 .................................... 6 

Rogue River Coalition: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 249 

Rogue Riverkeeper: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 251 

Roney, Scott: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 252 

Ross, B. Elliot: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 253 

Rothschild, Hon. Jonathan: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 254 

Russell, Alex: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 255 

Serra, Dawn: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 256 

Shaw, Nancy: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 257 

Shaw, William: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 258 

Sierra Club: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 259 

Smith, Charles: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 261 

Smith, Vicki: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 262 

Strahan, Dave: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 263 

Sutherland, Hugh: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 265 

Temple, Ray (and Stephanie Hazen): 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 266 

Thomas, Sally: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 267 

Trout Unlimited: 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1423 ......................................................... 268 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1699 ......................................................... 270 

Page

VIII 

Twight-Alexander, Susanne: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 272 

Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 273 

Uyenishi, Steve: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 279 

Wagner-Starley, Christie: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 280 

Whelan, Major General Martin: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 55 

Written Testimony ............................................................................................ 57 

Responses to Questions for the Record ........................................................... 81 

Wiese, Deborah (and Ruth Haasl): 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 282 

Wilcox, Tom: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 283 

Wild Rogue Outfitters Association: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 285 

(The) Wilderness Society: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 286 

Wilderness Watch and Friends of the Clearwater: 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1167 ......................................................... 293 

Letter for the Record regarding S. 1777 ......................................................... 296 

Wilderness Watch, et al.: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 303 

Wolper, Steven: 

Letter for the Record ........................................................................................ 307 

Wyden, Hon. Ron: 

Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 2 

Yoder, Chris: 

Statement for the Record ................................................................................. 308 

This official record contains a random selection of statements for the record submitted 

for this hearing. A complete record of all statements submitted for the record is on file with 

the Senate Energy Committee. 

The text for each of the bills addressed at this hearing can be found on the committee’s 

website at: http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/hearings-and-business-meetings? 

ID=A9500EE4-7F6A-400F-8C58-1F2C5A3CFF93. 

(1) 

PENDING LEGISLATION 

THURSDAY, APRIL 21, 2016 

U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS AND MINING, COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES, Washington, DC. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:34 p.m. in Room 

SD–366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso, 

Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING 

Senator BARRASSO. The Subcommittee will come to order. 

The purpose of today’s hearing is to receive testimony on nine 

bills pending before this Subcommittee. 

Three of these bills designate hundreds of thousands of acres of 

new wilderness and add hundreds of miles of river segments to the 

National Wild and Scenic Rivers System. These include: S. 1423, 

the Central Coast Heritage Protection Act, sponsored by Senator 

Boxer; S. 1510, the Wild Olympic Wilderness and Wild and Scenic 

Rivers Act, sponsored by Senator Murray; and S. 1699, the Oregon 

Wildlands Act, sponsored by Senator Wyden. 

Already 110 million acres of lands have been added to the wilderness system. Additionally, tens of millions of acres are protected as 

‘‘roadless’’ by the Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). In my view we must take a more balanced approach 

between adding lands to the wilderness system and Congress releasing lands. The agency currently manages wilderness study 

areas to be managed in accordance with the land management 

plans. 

These bills also propose to designate thousands of acres of potential wilderness. Potential wilderness gives the agency authority to 

remove all uses prohibited by the Wilderness Act on multiple use 

lands and provides the agency with discretionary authority at some 

future date to convert potential wilderness to designated wilderness without needing any additional authority or approval from 

Congress. This is troubling to me as it could have far reaching impacts for the management of our forests and our public lands. 

Today we also have two Idaho bills on the agenda that revisit 

past wilderness and wild and scenic river designations. Senator 

Crapo’s bill, S. 1167, the Owyhee Wilderness Areas Boundary 

Modifications Act, would authorize the continued use of motorized 

vehicles to herd livestock in certain wilderness areas. Senator 

Risch’s bill, S. 1777, would amend the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act 

2 

to maintain or replace certain facilities and structures at Smith 

Gulch. In these two cases Congress needs to provide further direction to the agencies so we can actually carry out the legislative intent. 

The remaining four bills on the agenda include: S. 2018, to convey a federal reversionary interest in Glennallen, Alaska, sponsored by Chairman Murkowski; S. 2223, to transfer administrative 

jurisdiction over certain BLM land to the VA for inclusion in the 

Black Hills National Cemetery, sponsored by Senator Thune; S. 

2379, to convey a federal reversionary interest to the City of Tucson, sponsored by Senator Flake; and S. 2383, to withdraw certain 

BLM outside the Utah Test and Training Range (UTTR) to facilitate and enhance weapons testing and pilot training at the Air 

Force, sponsored by Senator Hatch and Senator Lee. 

So I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. 

I would now like to turn to Senator Wyden for any opening remarks or comments he would like to add. 

STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

OREGON 

Senator WYDEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We are 

going to look at important public lands bills today, and I especially 

appreciate the inclusion of my Oregon Wildlands bill. There are important challenges here, and I am just going to touch on a few. 

One is the Frank Moore Wild Steelhead Sanctuary Act, which is 

a bill to honor a World War II hero and conservationist in Oregon. 

I look forward to working with my colleagues on this Committee to 

find a way to honor his legacy. 

I also have two Oregon tribal bills, the Coos and the Cow Creek 

bills. Helping these tribes has been important to me since I was 

Chair of this full Committee, because they provide these tribes 

with the land base that they deserve. I appreciate the continued efforts of the Chair and the Ranking Member of the Committee and 

their staffs on helping me get these bills over the finish line. 

With respect to my bill on the agenda today, the Oregon 

Wildlands Act is a compilation of several wilderness and wild and 

scenic provisions that were included in my O&C bill. So this is actually the second time these bills have been heard in this Committee, because the Committee held a hearing on the O&C bill last 

July. 

I know the Committee has received many letters of support for 

the legislation from groups across Oregon representing conservation, fish and wildlife, and sportsmen’s interests. I also appreciate 

the continued support and commitment from the Bureau of Land 

Management and the Forest Service to work with me on this important bill. 

The Oregon Wildlands Act designates hundreds of miles of rivers 

in Oregon as wild and scenic. It expands wilderness for some of Oregon’s most treasured areas and protects over 100,000 acres as National Recreation Areas. 

My state is a special place, and it has remarkable natural features and diverse landscapes that lend themselves to a variety of 

recreational pursuits. We essentially have it all. Climbing, hiking, 

bird watching, we have everything. That is why the bill is so imVerDate Sep 11 2014 04:10 Feb 06, 2018 Jkt 021976 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A976.XXX A976
3 

portant. The qualities that make Oregon’s natural treasures unique 

are exactly the reasons for protecting them, and I want to make 

sure that our kids and our grandkids can enjoy them for years to 

come and continue to support the ecosystems and wildlife that depend on them. 

The Oregon Wildlands Act was a part of my O&C bill, and I am 

just going to take a quick minute to talk about that. Unlike other 

forestry proposals that are out there, and the recently released Bureau of Land Management Resource Management Plan, this legislation is different. 

My O&C bill would double the harvest compared to the average 

harvest over the last decade, and it would ensure lasting protections for Oregon’s special places. With tough forestry and conservation issues, you always face the same challenge. I am looking down 

the dais and all of us, as Westerners in particular, understand 

what this is about. Not everybody is going to get what they asked 

for, and nobody is going to get everything they think they deserve. 

The question is in the West can you come up with a challenge so 

that all of the responsible parties get what they need? Looking 

down the row and to Senator Heinrich, I think all of us as Westerners have been through that, and that, in my view, sums up the 

challenge. 

Finally, I want to talk for a moment about Senator Crapo’s 

Owyhee bill. I know the wilderness management issues are difficult 

in his state, just as they are for all of us as Westerners. Senator 

Crapo has worked very hard to bring diverse interest groups together to pass the Owyhee Wilderness bill in 2009. And of course, 

again, as Westerners we know that is the way you go about this 

right. 

My understanding is the Bureau of Land Management recently 

changed its policies on grazing within these wilderness areas which 

the ranchers believe are inconsistent with what they agreed to in 

2009. So I want to just state, in wrapping up, my commitment to 

work with Senator Crapo to thread the needle on this to find a solution that is consistent with the Wilderness Act and also with the 

grazing language that was included in the original Owyhee Wilderness bill. 

Again, I want to thank Chairman Barrasso for his help on including the Oregon Wildlands Act today and for our witnesses. I 

hope they will excuse my bad manners. The last plane for Oregon 

leaves in a little bit, so that is going to be my immediate challenge. 

I really appreciate you all being here, and we look forward especially to working with you on the Oregon Wildlands bill. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much, Senator Wyden. 

We have some sponsors of initial legislation here with us. I think 

Senator Lee was the first to arrive if you would like to make any 

statement regarding your legislation? 

STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH 

Senator LEE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thanks 

to all of you for being here. This is an important issue to our state. 

We are grateful for the fact that you are willing to include S. 

2383 in the hearing this afternoon. The Enhancement of the Utah 

4 

Test and Training Range is an issue that the Utah delegation, both 

in the House of Representatives and here in the Senate, feel is 

great importance to our national security and the capabilities of 

the Air Force. 

As a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, I have 

had the opportunity this year to question Air Force leaders on the 

importance of readying our nation’s test and training ranges for 

fifth generation weapons systems and technology. 

Lieutenant General John Raymond, the Deputy Chief of Staff for 

the Air Force Operations, told the Airline Subcommittee on March 

8th that enhancing training is, ‘‘something that is going to be absolutely critical for our readiness going forward,’’ and that the Air 

Force will put nearly $1 billion in FY’17 to make sure that the 

ranges have the capabilities and the air space that they need to address these high end threats and to test the systems that we need. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much, Senator Lee. 

Senator Flake, is there anything you would like to add about 

your legislation? 

STATEMENT OF HON. JEFF FLAKE, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA 

Senator FLAKE. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this 

being talked about today. 

This would simply provide for the unencumbering of title to nonfederal land owned by the City of Tucson for purposes of economic 

development to buy a conveyance of the federal reversionary interest to the city. 

We know this was a deal that was done in 1989 and it was done 

with an equal land exchange at that time, but somehow BLM does 

not see it that way. The City of Tucson would simply like the full 

use of this land. 

This legislation would just complete the transaction that began 

in 1989. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much, Senator Flake. 

Senator Risch. 

STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES RISCH, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO 

Senator RISCH. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I have two pieces of legislation that I would like to speak to 

briefly. 

First of all, I have a lengthy statement on each one which I 

would ask unanimous consent to put in the record. 

Senator BARRASSO. Without objection. 

[The information referred to follows:] 

5 


Insert graphic folio 01 21976A.001
6 


Insert graphic folio 02 21976A.002
7 

Senator RISCH. S. 1177 is simply a bill that would allow for one 

of the lodges that is on the Salmon River to obtain permits in order 

to use certain motorized equipment. This is on private property and 

it was never the intention, I don’t believe, of anyone to stop that. 

This would very clearly allow them to use the kinds of things that 

they need to maintain the things that are there, not necessarily to 

improve. As usual this is a government-made problem, and this 

will resolve it. 

Interestingly enough the local Forest Service people say well they 

don’t have the authority to issue such a permit. The higher-ups say 

that they do have the authority and the testimony I am reading 

today from the Forest Service says, ‘‘The Department opposes Senate bill 1777 because it would create a negative precedent for other 

commercial recreation service providers on wild and scenic rivers 

across the nation. We hope to work with Senator Risch and Senator 

Crapo to find a solution that is mutually beneficial to their constituents and the Forest Service.’’ 

So I have got a real good solution. Issue the permits, then we 

really do not need this legislation. Again, this is very diminimus 

in the overall scheme of things. It was the intent always, when all 

of this was passed, that the private landholders could continue to 

operate they have traditionally been operating. I will be interested 

to hear the Forest Service position on that. Hopefully it is more 

than just in this, what I have in this prepared statement. 

Secondly, I am helping Senator Crapo on Senate bill 1167. Senate bill 1167 is another government-made problem. Senator Crapo 

worked very hard with the people. It was a collaborative sort of 

thing in order to get this particular wilderness put in place. What 

it did allow for is the people who were running cattle out there to 

continue running cattle and to do it the way they have always done 

it. 

Now for those of you who do not run cattle, I can tell you that 

every year we have to go out and gather the cattle. There are a 

couple of ways you do it. One is on a horse. One is on a four-wheeler. If you are down in Owyhee County, you want to be on a fourwheeler because you can cover about ten times the amount of 

ground on a four-wheeler that you can on a horse. It’s always been 

allowed, but the BLM has modified its rules since the original bill 

was passed and they are now trying to prohibit four-wheelers on 

the ranchers that are operating down there. 

What this bill does is simply allow us, again, to go back with 

what was the understanding. Interestingly enough, this is supported by our flagship conservation group in Idaho, the Idaho Conservation League, Rivers United which is our flagship group when 

it comes to wild and scenic rivers, the Wilderness Society and the 

Pew Foundation. All these people know that this is what was intended. 

With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much, Senator Risch. 

At this time, we will turn to our witnesses. 

At the end of the witness testimony we will begin a round of 

questions. The witnesses’ full written testimony will be made part 

of the official hearing record. We will ask you to please keep your 

statements to five minutes so that we may have time for questions. 

8 

The witnesses include: Mr. Glenn Casamassa, who is the Associate Deputy Chief of the U.S. Forest Service; Mr. Mike Pool, who 

is the Acting Deputy Director of the Bureau of Land Management; 

Major General Martin Whelan, who is the Director of Future Operations at the U.S. Department of the Air Force, and you are accompanied by Ms. Jennifer Miller, who is the Deputy Assistant Secretary regarding Installations. 

So welcome to all of you. 

If we could start with you, Mr. Casamassa. 

STATEMENT OF GLENN CASAMASSA, ASSOCIATE DEPUTY 

CHIEF, NATIONAL FOREST SYSTEM, U.S. FOREST SERVICE, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 

Mr. CASAMASSA. Yes, Mr. Chairman, members of the Subcommittee, my name is Glenn Casamassa and I serve as the Associate Deputy Chief for the National Forest System. 

There are four bills I’ve been asked to address, and I have provided written testimony for the record. 

S. 1423, the Central Coast Heritage Protection Act, designates 

National Forest System lands on the Los Padres National Forest 

in California as wilderness and additional to existing wilderness 

and designates potential wilderness areas, scenic areas and a national recreation trail. 

The legislation also directs the Forest Service to study creating 

a connection between the northern and southern portions of the 

Los Padres using a trail corridor, directs the Forest Service to 

study the feasibility of opening a new trail to an existing off-highway vehicle trail and additional access to wilderness scenic areas 

and potential wilderness areas by Indian tribes for traditional, cultural and religious purposes. 

The Department is generally supportive of the 24 additions of the 

eight existing wilderness areas and the designation of the new Diablo Caliente Wilderness and would like to work with the bill’s sponsor and the Subcommittee to develop legislative maps and additional language to clarify the intentions of some portions of the bill. 

The Department supports the Wild and Scenic River designation 

and will provide more details on the suitability, eligibility and classification information with the bill’s sponsors and the Subcommittee to facilitate as much consistency as possible between the 

agency’s findings and the river segments proposed for designation 

in the bill. 

Senate bill 1510, the Wild Olympic Wilderness and Wild and Scenic River Act of 2015, would designate new and expand existing 

wilderness areas, potential wilderness areas and certain rivers in 

the Olympic National Forest and Olympic National Park as wild 

and scenic rivers. 

The Department supports designation of suitable rivers to the 

national wild and scenic river system as well as the new wilderness 

areas and additions to existing wilderness in S. 1510. 

The Department would like to work with the bill’s sponsors and 

the Subcommittee on aspects of the bill such as the identification 

of potential locations of future restoration or habitat improvements, 

on language to be included in the bill that affords reasonable time 

for completion of the required comprehensive river management 

9 

plan and boundary modifications to ensure that the boundaries are 

crafted to best support the agency’s ability to manage and preserve 

wilderness characteristics. 

Senate bill 1699, the Oregon Wildlands Acts, would designate 

new and expand existing wilderness areas and would designate certain rivers in the Rogue River—Siskiyou in the Siuslaw National 

Forest as Wild and Scenic rivers. 

In summary, the Department is supportive of the following portions of the bill: Designate rivers and streams on National Forest 

System land as part of the National Wild and Scenic Rivers and 

defer to the Department of Interior in regard to the proposal to 

designate rivers and streams flowing on lands administered by the 

BLM; supportive of the technical changes that amend the existing 

designation in the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act as they provide a 

more appropriate naming convention and better reflect management classification and correction; supportive of the technical correction to remove the offensive name of the designation of Squaw 

Creek to Whychus Creek and other name designations; supportive 

of the designation of wilderness additions to the Wild Rogue Wilderness that has both BLM and U.S. Forest Service parcels; and, 

as we have previously testified in July of 2015 in support of Senate 

bill 132, the Oregon and California Land Grant Act of 2015, the 

designation of the Devil’s Staircase Wilderness which would include transfer of administrative jurisdiction of 49-acre parcel managed by the BLM to the Forest Service to be managed as part of 

the Siuslaw National Forest as site of cultural significance to the 

Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians. The Department would 

also like to work with the Subcommittee on some potential amendments and map revisions that we believe would improve this bill. 

With respect to Senate bill 1777, to amend the Wild and Scenic 

River, the Department opposes the amendment to the Wild and 

Scenic Rivers Act because it would create a negative precedent for 

other commercial recreation services providers on wild and scenic 

rivers across the country. 

The facilities and structures for commercial recreation services at 

Smith Gulch in Idaho are authorized and operated under a 20-year 

term, special use permit to the River of No Return Lodge Incorporated issued and administered by the Salmon Challis National 

Forest. This permit is issued with provisions and terms similar to 

those of recreation facilities throughout the National Forest System. The permit takes into account the location and surrounding 

of facilities improvements the public values if affected by such an 

operation and any specific public health and safety concerns. 

The Department encourages the operator or the recreation services business at Smith Gulch to work with the appropriate local 

Forest Service official to revise any issues related to their existing 

permit. 

This concludes my remarks of the four bills. I’d be happy to answer any questions. Thank you for the opportunity. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Casamassa follows:] 

10 


Insert offset folio 34 here 21976A.003
11 


Insert offset folio 35 here 21976A.004
12 


Insert offset folio 36 here 21976A.005
13 


Insert offset folio 37 here 21976A.006
14 


Insert offset folio 38 here 21976A.007
15 


Insert offset folio 39 here 21976A.008
16 


Insert offset folio 40 here 21976A.009
17 


Insert offset folio 41 here 21976A.010
18 


Insert offset folio 42 here 21976A.011
19 


Insert offset folio 43 here 21976A.012
20 


Insert offset folio 44 here 21976A.013
21 


Insert offset folio 45 here 21976A.014
22 


Insert offset folio 46 here 21976A.015
23 


Insert offset folio 47 here 21976A.016
24 


Insert offset folio 48 here 21976A.017
25 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much for your testimony. 

Mr. Pool. 

STATEMENT OF MIKE POOL, ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR 

OPERATIONS, BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR 

Mr. POOL. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, 

and members of the Subcommittee. I am Mike Pool, the BLM Acting Deputy Director for Operations. 

Thank you for the opportunity to present this testimony today 

which will briefly summarize our written statements. 

Senate bill 1167 focuses on the boundaries and the management 

of six wilderness areas in the Owyhee Canyonlands regions of 

Idaho. The Department acknowledges the dedicated efforts of the 

stakeholders to collaborate on issues concerning wilderness management in this region and we generally support stakeholder driven efforts to redefine management boundaries; however, the Department strongly opposes this bill because it proposes broad management changes that will lift the central protections from the wilderness areas. We would like to work, take the opportunity to continue to work with Senator Crapo and the Subcommittee on a balanced approach to issues concerning roadless management in this 

region. 

Senate bill 1423 would designate three wilderness areas on BLM 

managed land within the Carrizo Plain National Monument in 

California, establish the Black Mountain Scenic Area on lands 

managed by the BLM and the Forest Service and designate or expand nine wilderness areas within the Los Padres National Forest, 

two of which would include BLM-managed public lands. The Department supports this bill as it pertains to lands managed by the 

BLM and would like to work with Senator Boxer and the Subcommittee to address various technical concerns including ensuring 

consistency with the 2010 Carrizo Plain RMP and correcting various references to other laws. 

Senate bill 1699 would establish two new National Recreation 

Areas on forest lands in Western Oregon, protect over 280 miles of 

Oregon rivers under the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act and establish 

new conservation designations in Western Oregon. The Department 

shares the goals to protect, conserve and enhance the unique recreational and natural resources of the proposed recreational areas 

and support the bill’s conservation designations. We would like to 

work with Senator Wyden and the Subcommittee on clarifying the 

impact of the management language for the proposed recreational 

areas on existing commercial, recreation and timber production activities and to provide updated maps that are more closely tailored 

and aligned to the various designations in the bill. 

Senate bill 2018, relating to Glennallen, Alaska and Senate bill 

2379 relating to Utah Park in Tucson, Arizona would require the 

Department to convey without consideration reversionary interest 

in two parcels pending under the Recreation of Public Persons Act. 

The Department supports the goal of conveying the reversionary 

interest in both of these bills and could support them if they were 

amended to ensure the payment of fair market value for the conveyance of the reversionary interest. 

26 

Senate bill 2223 would transfer approximately 200 acres of public land to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to be incorporated into 

the Black Hills National Cemetery in South Dakota. The Department supports this bill and we look forward to working with the 

state’s congressional delegation and the Subcommittee to meet the 

needs of the Black Hills National Cemetery. 

Senate bill 2383. As introduced Senate bill 2383 provides for the 

limited use and short-term closure of approximately 700,000 acres 

of public lands surrounding Utah Test and Training Range by the 

United States Air Force. The bill would also direct a large land exchange between the BLM and the State of Utah and recognizes the 

existence and validity of unsubstantiated rights of way claims, 

RS2477. The Department supports the military’s periodic limited 

use of the lands surrounding the UTTR and we support the concept 

of major land exchanges like this one that further the public interest, consolidate ownership of scattered tracks of land to make them 

more manageable and enhance resource protection. We do not, 

however, support the withdrawal for the proposed share use area. 

We also strongly oppose the resolution of unsubstantiated rogue 

claims in the manner laid out in the bill. We appreciate the efforts 

of Senator Hatch and the Subcommittee to begin addressing the 

concerns we raised in our testimony on the House version of the 

bill, and we look forward to continuing our discussion. 

Finally, the National Park Service also submitted a statement for 

the record in support of Senate bill 1510, the Wild Olympic Wilderness and Wild and Scenic Rivers Act. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I’ll be glad 

to answer any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Pool follows:] 

27 


Insert offset folio 54 here 21976A.018
28 


Insert offset folio 55 here 21976A.019
29 


Insert offset folio 56 here 21976A.020
30 


Insert offset folio 57 here 21976A.021
31 


Insert offset folio 58 here 21976A.022
32 


Insert offset folio 59 here 21976A.023
33 


Insert offset folio 60 here 21976A.024
34 


Insert offset folio 61 here 21976A.025
35 


Insert offset folio 62 here 21976A.026
36 


Insert offset folio 63 here 21976A.027
37 


Insert offset folio 64 here 21976A.028
38 


Insert offset folio 65 here 21976A.029
39 


Insert offset folio 66 here 21976A.030
40 


Insert offset folio 67 here 21976A.031
41 


Insert offset folio 68 here 21976A.032
42 


Insert offset folio 69 here 21976A.033
43 


Insert offset folio 70 here 21976A.034
44 


Insert offset folio 71 here 21976A.035
45 


Insert offset folio 72 here 21976A.036
46 


Insert offset folio 73 here 21976A.037
47 


Insert offset folio 74 here 21976A.038
48 


Insert offset folio 75 here 21976A.039
49 


Insert offset folio 76 here 21976A.040
50 


Insert offset folio 77 here 21976A.041
51 


Insert offset folio 78 here 21976A.042
52 


Insert offset folio 79 here 21976A.043
53 


Insert offset folio 80 here 21976A.044
54 


Insert offset folio 81 here 21976A.045
55 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much. 

General. 

STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL MARTIN WHELAN, DIRECTOR OF FUTURE OPERATIONS, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF 

FOR OPERATIONS, HEADQUARTERS, U.S. AIR FORCE; ACCOMPANIED BY JENNIFER L. MILLER, DEPUTY ASSISTANT 

SECRETARY FOR INSTALLATIONS, U.S. AIR FORCE 

General WHELAN. Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member, distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity 

to come before you to discuss this important issue, specifically the 

need to balance responsible land management with evolving military requirements at the Utah Test and Training Range. 

If enacted, S. 2383, would provide the Air Force the capability to 

employ larger weapons safety buffers at the Utah Test and Training Range or UTTR, through the temporary closure and use of 

some current BLM land and any state land transferred to BLM. 

This would be accomplished at little additional cost and with no 

disruption to the historically responsible environmental management of these prized lands. 

The Air Force believes the bill’s concept of short periodic closures 

is the best way to serve the public’s interest while addressing both 

the Air Force’s emerging operational requirements and the Department of Interior’s effective stewardship of these lands. 

The Air Force’s operational capabilities are advancing at a rate 

that challenges the geographic boundaries of the ranges. These constraints compromise effective tests and evaluation and our ability 

to conduct realistic and relevant live training. One important aspect driving the need for larger geographic containment is the increasing size of weapon safety footprints. 

For safety reasons it is vital that the Air Force control for the 

duration of a mission. Access to the areas oppose even a remote 

risk to the public from debris or components should the weapons 

event fail. The Air Force’s enviable test safety record is testimony 

to this extraordinary level of caution. 

In the last 20 months the Air Force expended over 27,000 munitions in support of Operation Inherent Resolve which is more than 

we expended during all of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Air 

Force’s involvement in such combat operations is not expected to 

decrease in the near future. A well-trained force and continued 

testing and training of our improved combat capabilities are critical 

to our continued success supporting these operations. 

Technological advances incorporated in both our legacy and newest combat aircraft and the weapons associated with those systems 

represent an unprecedented leap in combat capability. These advances enable crews to identify and engage multiple targets from 

greater distances with improved accuracy. This technology that enables the greater employment distances and increases precision 

drives the need for larger segments of range and buffer lands. 

Safely containing large footprint weapons testing historically accomplished at the UTTR is especially challenging. Some standoff 

weapons footprints soon exceed the capability of our existing range 

enterprise configuration to provide the superior live weapons testing and tactics techniques and procedure validation that have long 

56 

been a U.S. strategic advantage in combat capability and readiness. 

We are working diligently and creatively to overcome these limitations. In some cases, we’ve relied on modeling and simulation to 

accomplish the specific events. In other cases, we simply accept certain levels of artificiality that degrade the training quality for live 

events at the local and regional levels. 

Given these gradual drifts from realistic training and realistic reliance on simulation it is absolutely imperative we sustain certain 

irreplaceable live environments, like the UTTR, to accomplish 

these unique and uncompromising tests and training events. 

In the past and under select circumstances the Department of 

Defense components have assumed administrative jurisdiction over 

buffer lands with full responsibility for land management. Generally however, it is neither efficient nor cost effective for the services to expend resources on full time land management when all 

that is required is brief periods of restricted access. 

This bill is similar to legislation allowing the overlap of weapons 

safety footprints on the Cabeza Prieta in Arizona. That example, 

commonly decided by the Air Force in how to successfully enable 

military missions while minimizing the impact on other agencies 

and the public. If enacted, S. 2383 would likewise provide the Air 

Force a much needed capability through brief closures to BLM land 

and any state land transferred to the BLM. 

We believe this bill’s concept of short periodic closures would 

serve the public interest better than the alternative of complete 

withdrawal. We recognize the Administration continues to have 

concerns with several provisions of S. 2383 that we may create 

challenges for effective management of these lands. We welcome 

the opportunity to continue working with the sponsors and the Department of the Interior to address these concerns. 

I thank you for the opportunity to come before you and I welcome 

any questions. 

[The prepared statement of General Whelan follows:] 

57 


Insert offset folio 87 here 21976A.046
58 


Insert offset folio 88 here 21976A.047
59 


Insert offset folio 89 here 21976A.048
60 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you so very much. 

Ms. Miller, do you have anything to offer in addition? I know you 

are here primarily in a support role. 

Ms. MILLER. Supporting role, Chairman. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you very much. 

We will turn to the questioning now with Senator Lee. 

Senator LEE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate 

your willingness to accommodate my schedule. 

General Whelan, can you tell us why it is important from an Air 

Force readiness standpoint to have the UTTR expanded and enhanced as soon as possible, especially given that both the 388th 

and the 419th fighter wings are already out there this year trying 

to achieve F35 Iowa City this year? 

General WHELAN. Thank you, Senator, and I appreciate the opportunity to explain the importance of the Utah Test and Training 

Range in this particular legislation to help us with our training, 

our tactics, techniques and procedures development and effectively 

the readiness of the force. 

As our new generation fighters, the F35 and F22, have longer 

ranges and the weapons with them have longer ranges, we effectively can engage weapons at a distance that preserves the capabilities that we have and the people that fly our weapons. So by 

employing those weapons at longer distances the probability of 

something going wrong covers a greater land mass. And through 

this legislation by increasing these buffer areas we’re able to do realistic testing without any of the artificialities that we currently 

have to put in place to enable the live testing, realistic testing, that 

we do to enhance our capability. 

We also support the fact that we don’t need this access 24/7, 365 

days a year. And so by allowing these buffer lands with the periodic shortages, not to exceed three hours, not to exceed 100 hours 

a year, allow us to do our effective training while also maintaining 

the access to the lands and the programs that are effectively run 

by the Department of Interior. 

Senator LEE. So this plan really does minimize the impact on 

surrounding communities, the inconvenience anybody else might 

suffer? 

Tell us what it would do though if we do not get this done in a 

timely manner? What kind of impact would that have on the Air 

Force? What would be the consequence of that? 

General WHELAN. Sir, if we don’t get the opportunity to make the 

changes that are brought forth in this legislation we’ll continue to 

have to work on a case by case basis for each of the tests that we 

do. Our process is set up that we program testing and training long 

in advance. We program through Congress for the funding to do all 

the testing, development and then the training of our crews and 

without this legislation we’ll have to continue to de-conflict on a 

more manpower intensive basis than through the procedures that 

are being allowed for under this legislation. 

Senator LEE. Thus limiting the ability that we would otherwise 

have to take full advantage of this new technology, this new platform, this new weapons system? 

General WHELAN. Yes, sir. It would limit our ability to test. 

61 

For instance, today, to make sure that the footprint stays sufficiently small, we either reduce the speed of the aircraft that we 

would normally use to engage the weapon which is an artificiality 

because in combat we won’t do that or we come down in altitude 

and actually dispense the weapon at a lower altitude to bring down 

that area which we wouldn’t normally do in a contested environment. 

So by allowing the buffer zone we’re able to maintain the range 

space and the buffer zones that we need to do this training and effectively train our crews to go into combat, should that become necessary. 

Senator LEE. Okay. In that case we need to get this done, don’t 

we? 

General WHELAN. Yes, sir. 

Senator LEE. Thank you very much, General. 

General WHELAN. Thank you, sir. 

Senator LEE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you, Senator Lee. 

Senator Heinrich. 

Senator HEINRICH. Mr. Chairman, first let me ask unanimous 

consent to put into the record statements from Senator Patty Murray on S. 1610 and Senator Barbara Boxer on S. 1423. 

Senator BARRASSO. Without objection. 

[The information referred to follows:] 

62 


Insert offset folio 99 here 21976A.054
63 


Insert offset folio 100 here 21976A.055
64 


Insert offset folio 101 here 21976A.056
65 


Insert offset folio 102 here 21976A.057
66 


Insert offset folio 103 here 21976A.058
67 

Senator HEINRICH. Mr. Casamassa, let me start with you. 

There seems to be a little bit of confusion around S. 1777. You 

heard my colleague at the beginning, Senator Risch of Idaho, state 

that this commercial lodge is on private land. My understanding is 

that it is on Forest Service titled land. Who actually owns the title 

to this property? 

Mr. CASAMASSA. Senator, the National Forest. It’s on National 

Forest System lands. 

Senator HEINRICH. So it is actually on public land not on private 

land? 

Mr. CASAMASSA. On public land and it is permitted on as it relates to the public land. 

Senator HEINRICH. Okay, that is very helpful to clear that up. 

Major General Whelan, it is great to see you again. I want to ask 

you a couple of questions about the Utah Test and Training Range 

legislation. 

First, let me say that I support the intent of this legislation, and 

I think we will get there on this because it is quite important. But 

I wanted to ask you, in particular, about Title III which seems to 

be somewhat incongruent with the rest of this legislation. 

This section of the bill grants nearly 6,000 miles of rights-of-way 

across three Utah counties. Is Title III of H.R. 4579 in any way 

driven by military necessity? 

General WHELAN. Thank you for the question, sir. 

From an Air Force operational perspective, we’re looking for the 

contiguous support but if I may have Ms. Miller, see if—— 

Senator HEINRICH. Sure. 

General WHELAN. She’s more the detail for our specific land use 

part of the mission area. 

Senator HEINRICH. That would be fine. 

Ms. MILLER. Yes, Senator. 

The Air Force doesn’t have any particular equity in Title III. We 

understand that there may be some concerns with Department of 

Interior and BLM, but there’s no operational requirement for that 

provision from the Air Force perspective. 

Senator HEINRICH. And it was not drafted in response to any request from the Air Force? 

Ms. MILLER. Correct, Senator. 

Senator HEINRICH. Great, that is very helpful. 

Director Pool, is the land exchange in S. 2383 a result of a negotiation between the BLM and the state and have you gone through 

the typical exchange decision-making process in this case? 

Mr. POOL. Senator, I think there’s been some informal discussions regarding both respective sets of properties. But I think we’re 

still on the front end in that this would be a, at least under our 

authority, it would come under FLPMA. 

Senator HEINRICH. Right. 

Mr. POOL. And that we would have to proceed with an inventory 

process of values associated with public lands. And we’re going to 

have to address the suitability and public interest determinations 

through the NEPA analysis process. So that’s, kind of, where we’re 

at at this stage. 

68 

Senator HEINRICH. Having not done NEPA or gotten that far 

down the road yet on this, are you aware of any sensitive public 

resources in this area? 

Mr. POOL. I think there’s some cultural resources. There’s some 

historic mining districts. There’s some greater sage grouse habitat 

associated with some of these parcels. 

So I think we’re just going to have to do a more intensive evaluation of all parcels and make a determination of whether or not they 

should be transferred out of federal ownership. 

Senator HEINRICH. What about tribal consultation? Is any tribal 

consultation— 

Mr. POOL. That would occur as part of the exchange NEPA process. 

Senator HEINRICH. Okay. 

Mr. POOL. We would indeed do that. 

Senator HEINRICH. I also wanted to switch gears to Owyhee 

country. 

I am wondering if you can help us better understand the lay of 

the land with the grazing guidelines that govern grazing in national wilderness areas. 

I am going to read a short section from the motorized vehicle use 

section. ‘‘Where practical alternatives do not exist, maintenance or 

other activities may be accomplished through the occasional use of 

motorized equipment. The use of motorized equipment should be 

based on a rule of practical necessity and reasonableness. Moreover, under the rule of reasonableness, occasional use of motorized 

equipment should be permitted where practical alternatives are not 

available and such use would not have a significant adverse impact 

on the natural environment.’’ 

The way that I understand that is typically interpreted is, for example, if you have to do an activity like taking silt out of a silted 

in stock tank, something where the only practical way to do that 

in many cases is to go in once every 10–15 years with a backhoe, 

dig that out under permit, and then you are done. Whereas, if say 

you are just mending a fence and you can take your T bars and 

your fence post pounders and things on horseback, then that would 

be required as the least impactful tool in that case. Can you talk 

a little bit about those guidelines and what they mean for areas 

like this? 

Mr. POOL. I can. 

Your scenarios are good analogies of what we can authorize by 

basically going through what we call a minimum effects analysis. 

We address those on a case by case depending on the type of access 

the permitee needed prior to wilderness designation, and it varies. 

But we go through, first of all, we have to determine if it’s even 

necessary. And if so, then we go through a range of alternatives including motorized, non-motorized and it’s on a case by case. 

So, I think we try to be fair and practical in working with our 

permitees to provide the needed access they need to have to get 

into some of these improvements. 

Senator HEINRICH. Thank you very much. 

Senator BARRASSO. I have just a couple of questions for Mr. 

Casamassa and Mr. Pool. 

69 

Today we are considering several pieces of legislation. When you 

combine it all it would designate almost a half a million acres, 

458,194 acres, of new wilderness. That number does not include another 625,000 acres of BLM lands withdrawn for national security 

purposes or the additional 118,000 acres of BLM lands recommended for withdrawal and repurposing as national recreation 

areas even though these areas would not allow the use of motorized 

vehicles on permanent or temporary roads. 

I would like to talk about one specific category of land withdrawal that I mentioned in the opening statement. This is the idea 

of potential wilderness. Between S. 1423, S. 1510 and S. 1699, 

there are almost 50,000 acres, about 48,900 acres, of land recommended for this designation as potential wilderness. So, it is a 

lot of land. 

The 1964 Wilderness Act did not really provide for a category 

called potential wilderness. It had other categories, but not a category for potential wilderness. So while the National Park Service 

Act of 1976 established a category for potential wilderness, it did 

so for National Park System units only. 

So both the BLM and the Forest Service have lands in these bills 

that would be designated as this new category, this potential wilderness land, which are currently lands used as multiple use. 

Could you explain a little bit about how your agencies plan to 

use a potential wilderness designation to convert land from multiple use to designated wilderness? How does this all work? 

Mr. CASAMASSA. Senator, one of the things that we’d have to do 

is assess what the non-conforming uses are within the potential 

wilderness areas, determine the impacts of those and then consider 

how we would then mitigate those uses in those areas and eventually reduce those non-conforming uses in order to then phase that 

into designated wilderness. 

Senator BARRASSO. Mr. Pool, would you like to add additional 

comments? 

Mr. POOL. Yes. 

We have two methods by which the wilderness designations 

could result within BLM. 

The first authority was 603 under the Federal Land Policy and 

Management Act (FLPMA). It directed the agencies to inventory 

public lands for wilderness characteristics, determine the suitability for wilderness management and produce wilderness suitability reports and report to Congress. Those currently exist 

throughout the Western range lands, and only Congress can either 

release or designate those areas wilderness. 

The other authority that we use as part of our planning is under 

FLPMA 201. That requires us to maintain an ongoing inventory of 

resource values associated with public lands and that does include 

wilderness characteristics. So if we’re going through a planning 

process or if we acquire new lands, just like we inventory all other 

natural resources, we do inventory for wilderness characteristics 

and we maintain those values in their current form. That’s what 

we do today. 

So there’s two different authorities that help us manage the wilderness program. 

70 

Senator BARRASSO. Mr. Casamassa, back with you looking at this 

wild Olympics bill, S. 1510. 

In 2012 the Port of Port Angeles released an economic impact 

analysis. They detailed the implications of S. 1510. The study concluded that the wilderness designation would result in reduced timber yields, and they said that there were more than 400 jobs, intersector jobs, in terms of job losses in the region. This legislation is 

going to add over 125,000 acres of Olympic National Forest to the 

wilderness tally. 

Could you just explain a little bit of how the Forest Service plan 

to reduce allowable acreage available for timber harvest on the peninsula would work without impacting yields and how would that 

work and the implications are consistent with that study from 

2012? 

Mr. CASAMASSA. Yes, Mr. Chairman, the—we estimate that it is 

approximately eight percent of that total, 123,000 acres that are 

currently in suitable timber management areas. That certainly 

would be, you know, those 10,000 acres would be collectively reduced from the overall timber base and the lands that we would 

manage as forest management. There would be some level of impact, but given that it’s 10,000 acres, it would be somewhat minimal based on the significance of it all. 

Senator BARRASSO. Senator Heinrich. 

Senator HEINRICH. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

Mr. Casamassa, I understand that the goal of S. 1777 is to allow 

the installation of solar panels on the cabins at Smith Gulch. But 

I have to admit I was a little confused to see lawn mowers, weed 

trimmers and hydroelectric generation and transmission facilities 

listed as equipment that would be allowed under the legislation as 

they do not seem to be related to the installation of solar panels. 

Can you shed any light on why that equipment is included in 

that legislation? 

Mr. CASAMASSA. Senator, as far as the way that the terms and 

conditions of the existing permit for that facility reads there are 

limitations as to what, if anything, would be permitted in addition 

to what is presently being permitted. These are requests that are 

being made, and we don’t necessarily believe that they’re in conformance with the terms and conditions of the permit authorized 

to not only this outfitting and guide camp but adjacent outfitting 

and guide camps along the river corridor as well. 

Senator HEINRICH. Great. That’s very helpful. As a former outfitter guide, I see where you’re coming from. 

I want to say just a word about S. 1510. I support Senator 

Murray’s Wild Olympics bill which was carefully designed, frankly, 

to protect and grow the local outdoor recreation economy on Washington’s Olympic peninsula. The bill provides permanent protections to important wildlife habitat and recreation land. It protects 

the health of rivers and streams that provide drinking water to 

thousands of Washingtonians. I hope there are at least a few salmon in those. It supports the robust shellfish industry as well and 

seeks to improve the health of Puget Sound. 

I have heard from Senator Murray that her bill is supported by 

thousands of Washington residents including many on the Olympic 

peninsula, local and national recreation and conservation organizaVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:26 Feb 06, 2018 Jkt 021976 PO 00000 Frm 00080 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A976.XXX A976
71 

tions, outdoor recreation companies and local elected leaders. I just 

wanted to put on the table my support for that legislation, and I 

look forward to working with her to accomplish that. 

Finally, before we wrap up, I will just leave one last commentary 

and then turn it back over to the Chair. 

We have heard a little bit today about multiple use versus wilderness. That is a little bit, to me, as a former outfitter guide, of 

an apples and oranges comparison simply because wilderness is 

multiple use. Grazing is allowed in wilderness. Hunting is allowed 

in wilderness. Fishing is allowed in wilderness. I was a guide in 

wilderness areas, so obviously, recreation as well. 

So while it does come with certain limitations, it also comes with 

a multiple use mindset that is not completely incongruous with the 

overall multiple use mandate that our public land agencies have. 

Thank you all. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you, Senator Heinrich. 

Mr. Pool, when the original Owyhee initiative began in 2000 it 

was a collaborative effort between diverse stakeholders including 

the Shoshone-Paiute tribe, ranchers and locals, state governments, 

environmental groups, people working together. The collaboration 

resulted in the Owyhee Public Land Management Act of 2008. It 

was signed into law as part of the Omnibus Lands bill of 2009. 

At the time the legislation was negotiated, the BLM left the 

stakeholders with the impression that current permittees would be 

able to continue reasonable grazing activities on new wilderness 

land, including the use of motorized vehicles for herding and for 

routine inspections. That was the impression that was left. So can 

you tell us what led the BLM to revise that policy to now disallow 

the use of motorized equipment for herding and routine inspections 

in livestock management in this area where it had previously been 

allowed? 

Mr. POOL. Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I think that we’ve, our criteria, 

we feel like using motorized equipment, ATV-type applications, is 

not consistent with the purpose of the Wilderness Act or the values 

that are associated with that designation. 

We have worked with our permittees, continue to provide them 

as needed authorizations to use motorized vehicles to get to their 

improvements, and I think we’ve been very reasonable. But when 

you start using ATVs or motorcycles to herd cattle, we believe that 

is inconsistent with the purpose of the Wilderness Act. 

Senator BARRASSO. I am going back to the impression that was 

left with the current permittees when all this collaborative effort 

came through. 

Does this decision then impact only the Owyhee Wilderness Area 

or will it also impact other wilderness areas with grazing permits? 

And if so, how many acres are we talking about and how many 

AUMs have been impacted by this decision or have all the permittees been given an opportunity to comment on this policy and this 

decision? 

Mr. POOL. Well, I don’t know to what extent there are other wilderness areas that BLM manages where we would allow motorized 

vehicles for herding or gathering. I know of none. But many of our 

wilderness areas that we manage in BLM we do provide a continuation of livestock use in the designated wilderness areas. That’s 

72 

clearly afforded in the act itself. And then we continue to work 

with them, case-by-case basis, you know, on the minimal effects 

tools to determine if we can permit the permittee to use motorized 

vehicles, including in some cases heavy equipment, to maintain 

their grazing and permits. 

Senator BARRASSO. Thank you. 

Senator Heinrich, do you have any additional questions? 

Senator HEINRICH. No. 

Senator BARRASSO. If not, I want to thank all of you for taking 

time to be with us today and for your testimony. 

Other members of the Committee may submit written questions 

to you. If they do, I hope that you will respond quickly in writing. 

The hearing record will be open for two weeks. 

Senator BARRASSO. I want to thank all the witnesses for your 

time and testimony today. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:24 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.] 

(73) 

APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED 

74 


Insert offset folio 120 here 21976A.060
75 


Insert offset folio 121 here 21976A.061
76 


Insert offset folio 122 here 21976A.062
77 


Insert offset folio 123 here 21976A.063
78 


Insert offset folio 124 here 21976A.064
79 


Insert offset folio 125 here 21976A.065
80 


Insert offset folio 126 here 21976A.066
81 


Insert offset folio 127 here 21976A.067
82 


Insert offset folio 128 here 21976A.068
83 


Insert offset folio 129 here 21976A.069
84 


Insert offset folio 132 here 21976A.072
85 


Insert offset folio 133 here 21976A.073
86 


Insert offset folio 134 here 21976A.074
87 


Insert offset folio 135 here 21976A.075
88 


Insert offset folio 136 here 21976A.076
89 


Insert offset folio 137 here 21976A.077
90 


Insert offset folio 138 here 21976A.078
91 


Insert offset folio 139 here 21976A.079
92 


Insert offset folio 140 here 21976A.080
93 


Insert offset folio 141 here 21976A.081
94 


Insert offset folio 142 here 21976A.082
95 


Insert offset folio 143 here 21976A.083
96 


Insert offset folio 144 here 21976A.084
97 


Insert offset folio 145 here 21976A.085
98 


Insert offset folio 146 here 21976A.086
99 


Insert offset folio 147 here 21976A.087
100 


Insert offset folio 148 here 21976A.088
101 


Insert offset folio 149 here 21976A.089
102 


Insert offset folio 150 here 21976A.090
103 


Insert offset folio 151 here 21976A.091
104 


Insert offset folio 152 here 21976A.092
105 


Insert offset folio 153 here 21976A.093
106 


Insert offset folio 154 here 21976A.094
107 


Insert offset folio 155 here 21976A.095
108 


Insert offset folio 156 here 21976A.096
109 


Insert offset folio 157 here 21976A.097
110 


Insert offset folio 158 here 21976A.098
111 


Insert offset folio 160 here 21976A.100
112 


Insert offset folio 161 here 21976A.101
113 


Insert offset folio 162 here 21976A.102
114 


Insert offset folio 163 here 21976A.103
115 


Insert offset folio 164 here 21976A.104
116 


Insert offset folio 165 here 21976A.105
117 


Insert offset folio 166 here 21976A.106
118 


Insert offset folio 167 here 21976A.107
119 


Insert offset folio 168 here 21976A.108
120 


Insert offset folio 130 here 21976A.070
121 


Insert offset folio 131 here 21976A.071
122 


Insert offset folio 169 here 21976A.109
123 


Insert offset folio 170 here 21976A.110
124 


Insert offset folio 171 here 21976A.111
125 


Insert offset folio 172 here 21976A.112
126 


Insert offset folio 173 here 21976A.113
127 


Insert offset folio 174 here 21976A.114
128 


Insert offset folio 176 here 21976A.116
129 


Insert offset folio 175 here 21976A.115
130 


Insert offset folio 177 here 21976A.117
131 


Insert offset folio 178 here 21976A.118
132 


Insert offset folio 179 here 21976A.119
133 


Insert offset folio 181 here 21976A.121
134 


Insert offset folio 182 here 21976A.122
135 


Insert offset folio 183 here 21976A.123
136 


Insert offset folio 184 here 21976A.124
137 


Insert offset folio 185 here 21976A.125
138 


Insert offset folio 186 here 21976A.126
139 


Insert offset folio 187 here 21976A.127
140 


Insert offset folio 188 here 21976A.128
141 


Insert offset folio 190 here 21976A.130
142 


Insert offset folio 191 here 21976A.131
143 


Insert offset folio 192 here 21976A.132
144 


Insert offset folio 194 here 21976A.134
145 


Insert offset folio 195 here 21976A.135
146 


Insert offset folio 196 here 21976A.136
147 


Insert offset folio 197 here 21976A.137
148 


Insert offset folio 198 here 21976A.138
149 


Insert offset folio 199 here 21976A.139
150 


Insert offset folio 200 here 21976A.140
151 


Insert offset folio 201 here 21976A.141
152 


Insert offset folio 202 here 21976A.142
153 


Insert offset folio 203 here 21976A.143
154 


Insert offset folio 204 here 21976A.144
155 


Insert offset folio 205 here 21976A.145
156 


Insert offset folio 208 here 21976A.148
157 


Insert offset folio 209 here 21976A.149
158 


Insert offset folio 210 here 21976A.150
159 


Insert offset folio 213 here 21976A.153
160 


Insert offset folio 211 here 21976A.151
161 


Insert offset folio 212 here 21976A.152
162 


Insert offset folio 214 here 21976A.154
163 


Insert offset folio 215 here 21976A.155
164 


Insert offset folio 216 here 21976A.156
165 


Insert offset folio 217 here 21976A.157
166 


Insert offset folio 218 here 21976A.158
167 


Insert offset folio 219 here 21976A.159
168 


Insert offset folio 220 here 21976A.160
169 


Insert offset folio 221 here 21976A.161
170 


Insert offset folio 222 here 21976A.162
171 


Insert offset folio 223 here 21976A.163
172 


Insert offset folio 224 here 21976A.164
173 


Insert offset folio 225 here 21976A.165
174 


Insert offset folio 226 here 21976A.166
175 


Insert offset folio 227 here 21976A.167
176 


Insert offset folio 228 here 21976A.168
177 


Insert offset folio 229 here 21976A.169
178 


Insert offset folio 230 here 21976A.170
179 


Insert offset folio 231 here 21976A.171
180 


Insert offset folio 232 here 21976A.172
181 


Insert offset folio 03 here 21976A.173
182 


Insert offset folio 235 here 21976A.175
183 


Insert offset folio 236 here 21976A.176
184 


Insert offset folio 237 here 21976A.177
185 


Insert offset folio 238 here 21976A.178
186 


Insert offset folio 239 here 21976A.179
187 


Insert offset folio 240 here 21976A.180
188 


Insert offset folio 241 here 21976A.181
189 


Insert offset folio 242 here 21976A.182
190 


Insert offset folio 243 here 21976A.183
191 


Insert offset folio 244 here 21976A.184
192 


Insert offset folio 245 here 21976A.185
193 


Insert offset folio 246 here 21976A.186
194 


Insert offset folio 247 here 21976A.187
195 


Insert offset folio 248 here 21976A.188
196 


Insert offset folio 249 here 21976A.189
197 


Insert offset folio 250 here 21976A.190
198 


Insert offset folio 251 here 21976A.191
199 


Insert offset folio 252 here 21976A.192
200 


Insert offset folio 253 here 21976A.193
201 


Insert offset folio 254 here 21976A.194
202 


Insert offset folio 255 here 21976A.195
203 


Insert offset folio 256 here 21976A.196
204 


Insert offset folio 257 here 21976A.197
205 


Insert offset folio 258 here 21976A.198
206 


Insert offset folio 259 here 21976A.199
207 


Insert offset folio 261 here 21976A.201
208 


Insert offset folio 262 here 21976A.202
209 


Insert offset folio 263 here 21976A.203
210 


Insert offset folio 264 here 21976A.204
211 


Insert offset folio 265 here 21976A.205
212 


Insert offset folio 266 here 21976A.206
213 


Insert offset folio 267 here 21976A.207
214 


Insert offset folio 268 here 21976A.208
215 


Insert offset folio 269 here 21976A.209
216 


Insert offset folio 270 here 21976A.210
217 


Insert offset folio 271 here 21976A.211
218 


Insert offset folio 272 here 21976A.212
219 


Insert offset folio 273 here 21976A.213
220 


Insert offset folio 274 here 21976A.214
221 


Insert offset folio 275 here 21976A.215
222 


Insert offset folio 276 here 21976A.216
223 


Insert offset folio 277 here 21976A.217
224 


Insert offset folio 278 here 21976A.218
225 


Insert offset folio 279 here 21976A.219
226 


Insert offset folio 280 here 21976A.220
227 


Insert offset folio 281 here 21976A.221
228 


Insert offset folio 282 here 21976A.222
229 


Insert offset folio 283 here 21976A.223
230 


Insert offset folio 284 here 21976A.224
231 


Insert offset folio 285 here 21976A.225
232 


Insert offset folio 286 here 21976A.226
233 


Insert offset folio 287 here 21976A.227
234 


Insert offset folio 288 here 21976A.228
235 


Insert offset folio 289 here 21976A.229
236 


Insert offset folio 290 here 21976A.230
237 


Insert offset folio 291 here 21976A.231
238 


Insert offset folio 292 here 21976A.232
239 


Insert offset folio 293 here 21976A.233
240 


Insert offset folio 294 here 21976A.234
241 


Insert offset folio 295 here 21976A.235
242 


Insert offset folio 296 here 21976A.236
243 


Insert offset folio 297 here 21976A.237
244 


Insert offset folio 298 here 21976A.238
245 


Insert offset folio 299 here 21976A.239
246 


Insert offset folio 300 here 21976A.240
247 


Insert offset folio 301 here 21976A.241
248 


Insert offset folio 302 here 21976A.242
249 


Insert offset folio 303 here 21976A.243
250 


Insert offset folio 304 here 21976A.244
251 


Insert offset folio 305 here 21976A.245
252 


Insert offset folio 306 here 21976A.246
253 


Insert offset folio 308 here 21976A.248
254 


Insert offset folio 309 here 21976A.249
255 


Insert offset folio 311 here 21976A.251
256 


Insert offset folio 313 here 21976A.253
257 


Insert offset folio 314 here 21976A.254
258 


Insert offset folio 315 here 21976A.255
259 


Insert offset folio 316 here 21976A.256
260 


Insert offset folio 317 here 21976A.257
261 


Insert offset folio 319 here 21976A.259
262 


Insert offset folio 318 here 21976A.258
263 


Insert offset folio 320 here 21976A.260
264 


Insert offset folio 321 here 21976A.261
265 


Insert offset folio 322 here 21976A.262
266 


Insert offset folio 323 here 21976A.263
267 


Insert offset folio 324 here 21976A.264
268 


Insert offset folio 325 here 21976A.265
269 


Insert offset folio 326 here 21976A.266
270 


Insert offset folio 327 here 21976A.267
271 


Insert offset folio 328 here 21976A.268
272 


Insert offset folio 329 here 21976A.269
273 


Insert offset folio 332 here 21976A.272
274 


Insert offset folio 333 here 21976A.273
275 


Insert offset folio 334 here 21976A.274
276 


Insert offset folio 335 here 21976A.275
277 


Insert offset folio 336 here 21976A.276
278 


Insert offset folio 337 here 21976A.277
279 


Insert offset folio 338 here 21976A.278
280 


Insert offset folio 339 here 21976A.279
281 


Insert offset folio 340 here 21976A.280
282 


Insert offset folio 341 here 21976A.281
283 


Insert offset folio 343 here 21976A.283
284 


Insert offset folio 344 here 21976A.284
285 


Insert offset folio 345 here 21976A.285
286 


Insert offset folio 346 here 21976A.286
287 


Insert offset folio 347 here 21976A.287
288 


Insert offset folio 348 here 21976A.288
289 


Insert offset folio 349 here 21976A.289
290 


Insert offset folio 350 here 21976A.290
291 


Insert offset folio 351 here 21976A.291
292 


Insert offset folio 352 here 21976A.292
293 


Insert offset folio 353 here 21976A.293
294 


Insert offset folio 354 here 21976A.294
295 


Insert offset folio 355 here 21976A.295
296 


Insert offset folio 356 here 21976A.296
297 


Insert offset folio 357 here 21976A.297
298 


Insert offset folio 358 here 21976A.298
299 


Insert offset folio 359 here 21976A.299
300 


Insert offset folio 360 here 21976A.300
301 


Insert offset folio 361 here 21976A.301
302 


Insert offset folio 362 here 21976A.302
303 


Insert offset folio 363 here 21976A.303
304 


Insert offset folio 364 here 21976A.304
305 


Insert offset folio 365 here 21976A.305
306 


Insert offset folio 366 here 21976A.306
307 


Insert offset folio 367 here 21976A.307
308 


Insert offset folio 368 here 21976A.308