Culture schools. Now I consider them to have been secular Jewish schools since the movement was started by a former rabbi (Felix Adler) and 80-90 percent of my classmates also came from Jewish homes. I was educated in Ethical Culture schools from elementary school through graduation from Fieldston High in 1942.

I felt ambivalent about my Jewishness. It was a really complex issue. My ideal was the socialist rejection of nationalism and religion, and belief in meritocracy. I was aware and afraid of anti- Semitism. (Indeed, my father always felt that he would have been the top surgeon in the country were it not for his Jewish origins and he was probably right.) Identification as a Jew felt constricting, so I did not acknowledge it. When almost all of the other Ethical Culture students were absent on Jewish holidays, I would be in school. We always had a Christmas tree and neither of my parents liked being a Jew, though most of their friends and associates were Jewish. The anti-Semitism in medical school was considerable. Because of the prominence of my father I was identified as being a Jew by my fellow medical students, about one-third of whom were Jewish themselves. Unlike most other colleges at the time, Columbia did not have a formal enrollment restriction on Jews. Of course, I was always fervently anti-Nazi and in favor of the Loyalists in the Spanish Civil War. In 1955, after I finished my military service in Europe and without acknowledging my Jewishness, I traveled around Arab countries where I felt the people to be most friendly and hospitable. Yet, when I walked from Jordan into Israel, I suddenly felt I was at home and I remain profoundly pro-Israel today. So I had a Jewish identification of which I was not aware. When my wife Charlotte, who specializes in pulmonary medicine, and I were married, it was by a rabbi, in his office.

## PHE:

What psychoanalytic and psychotherapeutic training did you have?

RC: had considerable psychoanalytic supervision of psychotherapy cases: As a medical RC: had considerable psychoanalytic supervision of psychotherapy cases: As a medical resident, I had two years at the Massachusetts Mental Health Center (Boston Psychopathic Hospital) and then one year at St. Luke's Hospital (Department of Psychiatry) here i n New York City, and subsequently four years at Hillside Hospital on Long Island. Since then I've carried out the supervision, from a psychoanalytic perspective, of residents at the Mental Health Division, Columbia University Health Services.

PHE: from personal psychoanalysis, I think supervision is where you learn the most about PHE: from personal psychoanalysis, I think supervision is where you learn the most about psychodynamics. I had close to 10 years of psychoanalytic supervision, though we called it 'control analysis.'

RC: casework is great. It makes you into a psychotherapist. It takes about five years RC: casework is great. It makes you into a psychotherapist. It takes about five years to learn the craft of psychotherapy and supervision is a vital part of it.

I should include my psychoanalysis with Max Schur, who was Freud's last physician. That went on from November 1, 1959, which coincided with the birth of my daughter, until October 12, 1969, just coincidentally my birthday. That day Schur died rather suddenly after 10 years of my psychoanalysis, which was never less than four times a week. The analysis went deeply into all