Note: These are 2 Disney Channel Europe toons I made

Thumper and Clover’s Woodsy Wonders: Thumper, the brown rabbit and his friend Clover, the white rabbit girl with a red scarf, embark on adventures in their village of Littlewood (Production company: SIP Animation and Cromosoma, Airdate: 2011)

Next Generation Heroes: A group of teenagers have their lives changed forever when they become the Next Generation Heroes, defending the Earth from alien threats, villans, and more dangerous events (Production companies: SIP Animation and CineGroupe, Airdate: 2006-2009)


International Disney Channel Thread Part 10:

Toonfan22: So it appears that the Disney Junior block on CEE has degraded to just Bubu, Mickey Clubhouse, Vampirina and Bluey, Meanwhile back on Channel it looks as though The Owl House is replaced with MORE Amphibia.

Red Arrow: Speaking of B&TLO, it seems as though it now airs during Disney Channel NL’s bizarre overnight lineup, replacing Simple Samosa, Airs alongside Kid vs Kat, The Tofus, Thumper & Clover’s Woodsy Wonders, What’s with Andy, Wunschpunsch and Next Generation Heroes. The shows air at random times, making it impossible to record, PL has the same (but with the addition of Yu-Gi-Oh GX), The schedule on TV.disney.nl is COMPLETELY wrong, Does PL have a similar “dummy” schedule

Here is that schedule

12:00 The Tofus
12:30 Phineas & Ferb
01:00 Jessie
02:00 Cory in The House
02:30 Next Generation Heroes
03:00 Gravity Falls
04:00 Cory in the House
05:00 Phineas & Ferb.

Meanwhile on daytime Big City Greens begins new episodes at 5pm starting 1st of September
Write a continuation of this fictional convo, a user asks if any feed really still airs Cory
Sure, here’s the continuation of the fictional conversation:

—

Toonfan42: Wait, does any feed seriously still air Cory in the House? I thought it was long gone from all Disney Channel schedules.

RetroToonsFan: Haha, you’d be surprised. Disney Channel in Canada still airs Cory in the House every once in a while. It’s like a blast from the past! But yeah, it’s pretty rare to see it in the EU feeds nowadays.

DisneyFanNL: Yeah, I’ve seen Cory in the House popping up on the Dutch schedule sometimes, although really late at night. Weirdly nostalgic, honestly.

OldShowlover123: Talk about bizarre! Cory in the House alongside Next Generation Heroes and Wunschpunsch? That’s a pretty random lineup. And don’t even get me started on the dummy schedules, they’re useless.

Toonfan22: Right? I feel like they cobble these schedules together without any real logic. It kinda feels like they’re just filling space. Speaking of unexpected, does anyone remember when they used to air Emperor’s New School in the middle of the night? Good times.

AnimationNerd: Yeah, it’s like they’re digging up every show they ever aired just to fill the time slots. Too bad the schedules are so unpredictable, it makes it almost impossible to catch these old gems unless you’re up all night.

Red Arrow: I think they just assume no one’s watching those late hours. If they wanted to please us, they’d at least pick a consistent schedule. But hey—now I have a new quest: catching a live airing of Next Generation Heroes at 2:30 am! 😄

DisneyFanPL: Haha, good luck with that quest! But speaking of late-night slots, does anyone know why Wunschpunsch keeps reappearing randomly? I never got into it as a kid, so it’s intriguing to see it still floating around.

Toonfan22: Maybe they have some old contract obligations to fulfill or something. Although if anyone’s looking to catch up on Next Generation Heroes, I think there’s a fan site with some episodes uploaded. Just not the same as catching it live, though.

Toonfan42: Yep, it’s all about the nostalgia. And speaking of nostalgia, is anyone else kind of excited about Big City Greens getting new episodes? That show really grew on me!

OldShowlover123: Absolutely! Big City Greens is a modern classic in the making. I just hope they don’t bury it in some weird time slot like they do with all these other shows. Here’s hoping for some sensible scheduling this time!

RetroToonsFan: Fingers crossed! Although, with Disney Channel, you never really know what to expect. Anyway, let’s keep sharing updates here. It’s always fun to hear what oddities are popping up on schedules around the world!

Write a follow up saying Cory is just part of the dummy schedule and doesn’t actually air,
—
Toonfan22: I was really looking forward to catching Cory in the House, but it turns out it’s just part of the dummy schedule and doesn’t actually air. So much for that nostalgic trip down memory lane!

RetroToonsFan: Aw, that’s disappointing. I was hoping it was real. Such a bummer that those dummy schedules keep tricking us. Guess my late-night mission just got canceled!

OldShowlover123: Seriously? That’s just annoying. Why even bother putting it on the schedule if they’re not going to air it? Makes no sense.

AnimationNerd: It’s like they’re trolling us at this point. You’d think they’d have a way to update the schedules to reflect what’s actually on. At least we have some confirmation now—no point staying up for a show that’s really not there.

DisneyFanNL: Yeah, it’s a shame. Would’ve been fun to see Cory back on TV. At least the newer shows like Big City Greens and Amphibia are keeping things interesting.

Red Arrow: True, but I still miss the good old days when the lineup was more stable and you knew what to expect. Now it’s just a guessing game. Thank goodness for streaming services, I guess.

Toonfan22: Definitely! Although it does make stumbling upon old shows even more exciting when they actually do decide to air them, unexpectedly. Anyone else have interesting finds lately?

DisneyFanPL: I recently saw an ad for some classic Disney shorts airing late at night. Not a full show, but still a nice surprise. Maybe there’s hope for more nostalgic content after all.

RetroToonsFan: Nice! Well, let’s keep our eyes peeled. Even if the schedules are off, sometimes we get lucky. And hey, Big City Greens at 5pm is a win. We’ll take what we can get!

Toonfan22: Absolutely. Here’s to hoping for more accurate schedules and some pleasant surprises. I’ll be keeping an eye out for any updates and will share if I spot something cool!

Write a convo where a user lists the overnight NL programmes (7 in total, also saying SS has been replaced with Bubu & the Little Owls, also Kid vs Kat has seemingly been replaced with those 2013 Mickey shorts, Everything else stays) and says its impossible to record, unless you record the whole night, and the dummy schedule, Jessie, Phineas and Ferb, Gravity Falls and Cory in the House are on the dummy lineup, and don’t actually air as part of the night schedule,
Sure, here’s the continuation of the conversation with the user listing the overnight NL programs and discussing the impossibility of recording them:

—

User123: Okay, so I stayed up to check the overnight schedule for Disney Channel NL and here’s what actually airs (everything else is part of the dummy schedule). The lineup is:

1. The Tofus
2. Thumper & Clover’s Woodsy Wonders
3. What’s with Andy
4. Wunschpunsch
5. Next Generation Heroes
6. Mickey Mouse Shorts (2013)
7. Bubu & the Little Owls (replacing Simple Samosa)

Kid vs Kat seems to have been replaced with those new Mickey Mouse shorts, which is kind of cool. But it’s impossible to record the shows individually unless you record the whole night.

RetroToonsFan: Wow, thanks for the thorough check, User123! That lineup is pretty random, but kind of cool too. It’s just a bummer you can’t easily catch specific shows.

Toonfan22: Yeah, thanks for the info. It’s so frustrating that the dummy schedules are completely off. Jessie, Phineas and Ferb, Gravity Falls, and Cory in the House are all part of the dummy lineup and don’t actually air. Such a letdown.

OldShowlover123: Ugh, that’s annoying. It’s like they’re playing hide and seek with our favorite shows. Recording the whole night is such a hassle. Does anyone know if there’s a way to get episode guides or schedules for the specific shows?

DisneyFanNL: I wish! That would make life so much easier. I’ve tried checking online, but nothing seems updated. Just have to rely on trial and error, I guess.

AnimationNerd: It sounds like a nightmare for any real fan trying to catch these shows. Recording the whole night reminds me of the old VCR days! Also, is anyone else missing the consistency of the old schedules?

Red Arrow: For sure. At least back then, you knew what to expect. Now it’s like they threw darts at a board to decide what airs when. On the plus side, those Mickey Mouse shorts are fun to watch.

Toonfan22: Agreed! They’re a nice blend of classic and modern Disney. But it’s tough navigating this unpredictable schedule. Maybe we should petition for more accurate listings?

DisneyFanPL: I’m in! Accurate schedules would save us so much trouble. Until then, I suppose we’ll have to keep comparing notes here. Thanks for the heads-up, User123. Here’s hoping we spot some more hidden gems!

User123: No problem! Happy to help even if it’s a little chaotic. I’ll keep tracking any changes I notice. Let’s keep this thread alive with updates; it’s the best way to stay in the loop with all the randomness.

RetroToonsFan: Absolutely. Here’s to hoping we get some clarity soon. Meanwhile, happy late-night viewing to those brave enough to record the entire block! #NostalgiaOnRepeat. Write a follow up asking if it’s true that Disney Channel UK has stopped airing Cory at night due to the Kyle Massey rumors, and whats taken its slot
Sure, here’s the continuation of the conversation with a follow-up question about Disney Channel UK and the discontinuation of Cory in the House:

—

Toonfan42: By the way, is it true that Disney Channel UK has stopped airing Cory in the House at night due to the Kyle Massey rumors? If so, does anyone know what’s taken its slot?

RetroToonsFan: I heard something about that too. Not sure if it’s confirmed though. It would make sense given the circumstances. Anyone got updates on that?

OldShowlover123: Yeah, I’ve noticed Cory hasn’t been on the UK schedule recently. They probably pulled it because of the controversy. But I’m not sure what’s replaced it. Could be another old show? Anyone from the UK feed know?

DisneyFanNL: That’s a good question. I remember seeing some chatter about it on forums, but nothing concrete. It wouldn’t surprise me if they pulled it and just slotted in more of the newer shows instead.

AnimationNerd: I think they’ve put in more episodes of Big City Greens and The Ghost and Molly McGee in those slots. Both shows seem to be getting a lot of airtime lately. But yeah, it’s a smart move to remove Cory under the circumstances.

Red Arrow: Good call on Disney’s part, but it’s still a bit disappointing for those of us who enjoyed the show. At least Big City Greens is getting more love, that’s a plus.

Toonfan22: True. It’s a tough situation all around. It’s probably the right move given everything happening. Thanks for the input. If anyone finds out more details, let us know!

User123: Sure thing. I’ll keep an eye on the UK schedule and see what’s filling in the late-night slots now. Hopefully, it’s something just as entertaining! In the meantime, keep sharing those updates, everyone.

RetroToonsFan: Definitely. It’s always interesting to see how these channels shuffle things around. Tune in next time for more schedule chaos! 😅 #DisneyChannelDrama
Write a convo where a user has what France is airing as part of the overnight lineup, First hour is usual daytime shows, and then this,
Sure, here’s the continuation of the conversation with a user detailing the overnight lineup for Disney Channel France:

—

Toonfan42: So I was curious and checked out what Disney Channel France is airing at night. The first hour is the usual daytime shows, but then it gets interesting. Here’s the overnight lineup after the first hour:

1:00 AM - Big City Greens
1:30 AM - The Owl House
2:00 AM - Thumper & Clover’s Woodsy Wonders
2:30 AM - Amphibia
3:00 AM - Next Generation Heroes
3:30 AM - DuckTales (2017)
4:00 AM - Kim Possible
4:30 AM - Legend of the Three Caballeros

RetroToonsFan: That’s pretty cool! Seems like a solid lineup with a good variety. I wish other channels were this organized with their overnight schedules.

OldShowlover123: Wow, Legend of the Three Caballeros? That’s a rare one! I didn’t know they were still airing it anywhere. Nice finds!

DisneyFanNL: It’s interesting how different the lineups can be from country to country. France seems to have a good mix of old and new shows. Maybe I should try tuning in somehow.

AnimationNerd: It’s also practical that they have a consistent schedule! Easier to plan recordings than randomly trying to catch shows in the wild. Anyone know how France’s lineup compares to other regions?

Red Arrow: Definitely seems more organized than the NL lineup. France actually looks like they put thought into what airs and when. I might have to dig into some international streams!

Toonfan22: True, the French lineup actually makes sense and covers a lot of different tastes. And showing The Owl House and Amphibia at night is pretty sweet. Might have to brush up on my French!

DisneyFanPL: I wish they had these consistent schedules more widely. Just seeing a mix of classics and newer stuff without a random shuffle would be nice. Guess it’s another reason to love France!

User123: Exactly. Plus, having shows like Kim Possible and DuckTales (2017) makes it a great nostalgic trip. I wonder if they’ll keep this lineup for long. Would be nice if other regions took some notes.

RetroToonsFan: Let’s hope so! Thanks for the comprehensive update. It’s always fun to compare notes on what’s airing where. Keep those schedules coming, everyone!

Toonfan42: Anytime! I’ll keep an eye on other regions too. It’s a fun treasure hunt figuring out these lineups. Keep sharing any interesting finds, folks!
Write a tweet saying DCF is lax, only airing 2 of the overnight filler shows, the rest is the usual day shows
Sure, here’s a tweet you could use:

—

🌙 Heads up, Disney Channel France fans! 📺 DCF is taking it easy with the overnight filler shows, only airing 2 unique ones before reverting back to the usual daytime lineup. Enjoy some late-night variety while it lasts! #DisneyChannelFrance #NightLineup #TVSchedules

—

Feel free to tweak it as needed!
Write a tweet with the 2 filler shows
Sure, here’s a tweet that includes the two filler shows:

—

🌙 Heads up, Disney Channel France fans! 📺 DCF is keeping it chill overnight with just two fillers: Thumper & Clover’s Woodsy Wonders and Next Generation Heroes before switching back to usual daytime shows! Enjoy the mix! #DisneyChannelFrance #NightLineup #TVSchedules

—

Feel free to adjust it as needed!
Write a tweet with the shows UK airs at night now after Cory fizzled away (Also has As The Bell Rings)
Sure, here’s a tweet that includes the current late-night lineup for Disney Channel UK:

—

🌙 Disney Channel UK late-night update! 📺 After Cory fizzled away, here’s what’s airing now:

- Big City Greens
- The Owl House
- As The Bell Rings
- Amphibia
- The Ghost and Molly McGee

Catch these shows during your sleepless nights! #DisneyChannelUK #NightLineup #TVSchedules

—

Feel free to adjust it as needed!
Write a convo asking if it’s true that SS is being purged, CEE replaces it next week say what with
Sure, here’s a continuation of the conversation where a user asks about Simple Samosa (SS) being removed and what it’s being replaced with on CEE:

—

Toonfan42: Hey, is it true that Simple Samosa (SS) is being purged from the schedule? I heard CEE is replacing it next week. Anyone know what’s taking its slot?

RetroToonsFan: Yeah, I heard the same thing. Seems like SS is getting the boot. Too bad, I kind of liked it. Any idea what’s replacing it?

OldShowlover123: I heard it’s going to be replaced with more episodes of Bubu & the Little Owls. Anyone can confirm that?

DisneyFanNL: Actually, I saw a schedule leak, and it looks like that’s true. Bubu & the Little Owls will fill in SS’s time slots on CEE. Not a bad replacement, but I’ll miss SS.

AnimationNerd: Wow, that’s a big change. Seems like they’re shuffling things around a lot. I wonder if this is permanent or just temporary.

Red Arrow: I actually liked Simple Samosa for its unique vibe. Too bad it’s going away. At least Bubu & the Little Owls is a decent show. Hope they don’t mess with the other schedules too much.

Toonfan22: Thanks for the confirmation, everyone. It’s a shame to see SS go, but I guess we’ll have to adapt. Let’s keep each other updated on any more changes.

DisneyFanPL: Agreed. It’s helpful to stay in the loop with all these shifts. Thanks for sharing the info; I’ll keep an eye on the schedule next week to see how it all pans out.

User123: Definitely. Always good to know what to expect. And who knows, maybe SS will make a comeback someday. For now, we’ll just enjoy the new lineup. Thanks for keeping the updates coming, everyone!

RetroToonsFan: Absolutely. It’s a team effort keeping track of these schedules! Cheers to more interesting finds and keeping the nostalgia alive. #DisneyChannelUpdates

—

Feel free to adjust the conversation as needed!
Write a convo where a user says Spain has Miraculous, Ghostforce, Bubu, Cambio de Clase, Chaotic, Club Houdini, Art Attack and Monster Allergy overnight
Sure, here’s a continuation of the conversation where a user details the overnight lineup for Disney Channel Spain:

—

Toonfan42: So I just checked out Disney Channel Spain’s overnight lineup, and here’s what they’re airing:

1. Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir
2. Ghostforce
3. Bubu & the Little Owls
4. Cambio de Clase
5. Chaotic
6. Club Houdini
7. Art Attack
8. Monster Allergy

It’s a pretty mixed bag!

RetroToonsFan: That’s an interesting lineup! Nice to see some classics like Art Attack and Chaotic in there. Spain seems to have a good mix going.

OldShowlover123: Wow, Monster Allergy! That’s a blast from the past. It’s cool that Disney Channel Spain is keeping such a variety. Seems like there’s something for everyone.

DisneyFanNL: Definitely a diverse selection. Miraculous and Ghostforce are modern favorites, while shows like Cambio de Clase bring a nostalgic touch. Spain is rocking it!

AnimationNerd: I love that they’re airing Art Attack. Such a classic. And Club Houdini sounds intriguing, haven’t seen that one yet. Anyone have any insights on it?

Red Arrow: Club Houdini is a pretty interesting show, kind of a mix between mystery-solving and adventure. Spain is lucky to have such a lineup. Makes me wish we had something similar here.

Toonfan22: Yep, Spain’s lineup really stands out. I’ll have to see if I can catch some of these shows online. Thanks for sharing, Toonfan42!

DisneyFanPL: It’s great to see they’re valuing a mix of old and new content. Hosts like Monster Allergy and Art Attack bring back a lot of good memories. Thanks for the update!

User123: Definitely keeping an eye on Spain’s lineup now. It’s got such a fun mix of shows. Let’s hope other regions take notes from this!

RetroToonsFan: For sure. Here’s hoping we see more diverse and interesting lineups in other regions too. Keep the updates and insights coming, everyone!

Toonfan42: Will do! Always happy to share what I find. And feel free to update us if you spot anything new or exciting. #DisneyChannelVariety

—

Feel free to adjust the conversation as needed!
Write a convo where UK are shaking up the overnight schedule next month, here’s what it looks like now, as it adjusts to the post-CITH era
Sure, here’s a continuation of the conversation where a user details the upcoming overnight schedule shake-up for Disney Channel UK:

—

Toonfan42: Heads up, everyone! Disney Channel UK is shaking up the overnight schedule next month. Here’s what it looks like now as it adjusts to the post-Cory in the House era:

1. Big City Greens
2. The Owl House
3. As The Bell Rings
4. Amphibia
5. The Ghost and Molly McGee
6. Kim Possible
7. Recess
8. Club Houdini

RetroToonsFan: That’s a solid lineup! Nice to see Kim Possible and Recess making a comeback. Definitely gives a nostalgic feel.

OldShowlover123: Wow, Recess and Kim Possible? My childhood is happy! It’s great they’re mixing classics with newer shows like The Owl House and Amphibia. UK is stepping up!

DisneyFanNL: For sure. The mix of old and new works really well. As The Bell Rings is a unique choice too. Glad to see them diversifying the lineup.

AnimationNerd: So true. UK really seems to be optimizing their late-night slots. It’s awesome they’re keeping a balance. Have any of you seen Club Houdini? Any good?

Red Arrow: Club Houdini is pretty engaging. It’s like a mix of mystery and adventure, definitely worth a watch. UK is doing great by adding it to the roster.

Toonfan22: Yeah, totally. And having Big City Greens and The Ghost and Molly McGee in there ensures there’s something for everyone. Props to UK for this update!

DisneyFanPL: Can’t agree more. It’s refreshing to see a schedule that’s well thought out. I’m especially excited to catch some Recess episodes again. Thanks for the update, Toonfan42!

User123: Absolutely. Here’s hoping other regions take inspiration from this balanced lineup. Always great to see such diversity in the shows they air. Kudos to Disney Channel UK!

RetroToonsFan: Totally. Here’s to more thoughtful scheduling across the board. Let’s keep updating each other on any more changes or cool finds. Happy viewing, everyone!

Toonfan42: Will do! Always happy to keep the community updated. Let’s enjoy this new lineup and keep sharing our discoveries. #DisneyChannelUK #TVSchedules

—

Feel free to tweak the conversation as needed!
Write a convo where ratings wise XD is getting good views, and running on a loop of Phineas and Ferb, Gravity Falls, Recess and Yin Yang Yo must be good for something
Sure, here’s a continuation of the conversation where a user discusses Disney XD’s ratings and their current programming loop:

—

Toonfan42: Hey, have you all noticed that Disney XD is getting some pretty good ratings lately? They’re running a loop of Phineas and Ferb, Gravity Falls, Recess, and Yin Yang Yo. Must be working for them!

RetroToonsFan: That’s awesome to hear! Those shows are classics and have huge fanbases. No wonder the ratings are up. Quality content always pulls viewers in.

OldShowlover123: For sure! Phineas and Ferb and Gravity Falls are gold. Toss in Recess, and you’ve got a recipe for success. It’s no surprise they’re seeing good viewership.

DisneyFanNL: Yin Yang Yo is a fun addition to the mix too. It’s underrated but has some great moments. This loop is definitely a win for Disney XD.

AnimationNerd: Absolutely. The mix of those shows is spot on. They appeal to both kids and nostalgic older viewers. Disney XD hit the jackpot with this programming block.

Red Arrow: Plus, having a consistent loop makes it easy for fans to know what to expect. Catching episodes of favorite shows is super convenient. Smart move on their part.

Toonfan22: Definitely. I’ve been tuning into that lineup myself, and it’s a blast from the past. New fans are discovering these shows too, which is awesome.

DisneyFanPL: It’s great to see Disney XD thriving with this strategy. Maybe other channels will follow suit and go for these strong, classic lineups. Fingers crossed!

User123: No kidding. If it’s working for Disney XD, it could work elsewhere too. Let’s hope they keep this lineup for a while. It’s been a huge hit so far!

RetroToonsFan: Agreed. Consistent programming plus quality shows is a winning combination. Kudos to Disney XD for figuring it out. Here’s to more high ratings and more great content!

Toonfan42: Absolutely. Looking forward to see how long they’ll stick with this lineup and if they add more classics down the road. Keep enjoying the shows, everyone! #DisneyXD #TVRatings

—

Feel free to tweak the conversation as needed!
Write a follow up where starting mid September, a Big City Greens marathon begins on NL, This doesn’t affect the night schedule, as it runs from 9am to 10pm, Also, how is the Zoog Disney classics block doing, Is UK overnights now under the Zoog branding after Cory was removed
Sure, here’s a continuation of the conversation with updates about the Big City Greens marathon on Disney Channel NL and questions about the Zoog Disney branding on UK overnights:

—

Toonfan42: Just a heads up, starting mid-September, Disney Channel NL is kicking off a Big City Greens marathon running from 9am to 10pm! Pretty exciting, especially for fans of the show. This won’t affect the night schedule, so we still have our usual lineup overnight.

RetroToonsFan: That’s awesome news! Big City Greens deserves the spotlight. It’s such a fun show. Thanks for the update, Toonfan42!

OldShowlover123: Wow, an all-day marathon? That’s intense but in a good way. Perfect for binging. Glad it doesn’t affect the night schedule. Balance is key!

DisneyFanNL: Can’t wait to dive into the Big City Greens marathon. It’s such a great show for all ages. This will be a treat. Glad the nights stay consistent too!

AnimationNerd: Awesome news! On another note, how’s the Zoog Disney classics block doing? And did UK overnights switch to the Zoog branding after Cory was removed?

Red Arrow: I’m curious about that too. Zoog Disney branding was iconic. Would be interesting if UK overnights adopted it. Any word?

Toonfan22: The Zoog Disney classics block is performing really well in terms of ratings. It seems to be a hit with both nostalgic viewers and newer audiences alike. And yes, after Cory was removed, UK overnights did switch to the Zoog branding. It’s a nice touch of nostalgia!

DisneyFanPL: That’s great to hear! Zoog Disney had some of the best shows. Bringing that branding to overnights was a smart move. Kudos to Disney Channel UK for tapping into that nostalgia.

User123: Definitely! Zoog Disney was a staple for many of us. It’s awesome to see it make a comeback in some form. Adds a nice retro vibe to the overnights.

RetroToonsFan: Totally. It’s neat seeing them respect the nostalgia while still keeping things fresh with shows like Big City Greens. Here’s hoping for more great updates like these.

Toonfan42: Thanks for all the info, everyone! Let’s keep enjoying these changes and sharing updates. And don’t forget to tune into that Big City Greens marathon next month! #DisneyChannelNL #ZoogDisney #TVUpdates

—

Feel free to tweak the conversation as needed! Write a tweet where SS is removed from Germany overnight, confirming it's being written off or something, replaced by T&CWW and 2013 MM