want to make podcast sniffet of 30-60 sec that may gone viral and clips should have climax that tie viewers till end so i am giving transcript of video so give direct transcript cut  without changing transcript of about 30-60 sec that have ability to go viral also give rating of viral out of 10 give all possible clips from this "When a person is watching porn, can a cybercrime attack be done on the porn website? There will be an attack because they know you are vulnerable. When we buy onions, we pay with our jeep. If a rickshaw driver gives you a payment after your ride through UPI, and you issue a QR code, can there be a theft? Because of AI, we can easily put a program in the QR code so that I can get all your data. Have we become the world's cybercrime capital? The cyber hacking industry is worth 50 billion. There are a lot of attacks on India. China took all the IPs. They made planes by taking all the aviation industry. What did Russia do in the Russian-Ukrainian war? They put the first payload in the Ukrainian satellite. 
All mobile communications were shut down. ATMs were shut down. Imagine you are in the darkness. So who is more powerful? A country's government or those people who control social media algorithms? The country that can imagine better is going to move forward. Wow! It is said that in the world's militaries, there were already 3 wings. Army, Navy and Air Force. But in the coming years, 2 more wings will be added. Space Wing and Cyber Wing. Friends, let's leave the military. Because of WhatsApp, because of your Insta account, because of your email, because of your own phone, your safety, your security and your privacy is in danger. This... of 2024 and our future, there is a fact that you are going to face a danger. 
Cybersecurity is a subject that you should know more about. So, my suggestion is to sit, absorb the knowledge from this podcast and protect yourself. But learn from this conversation and enjoy it too. Because today's guest, Jagdish Mahapatra, from India and the world, honestly, a top cyber security expert. It's a very interesting, free-flowing conversation. You'll enjoy yourself. But remember, in the future, self-protection will happen because of your brain. So first, work on your brain. With TRS, with Jagdish Mahapatra. Jagdish ji, namaste. Namaskar. How are you? Very good. Today, we will scare people a little bit. Because we will tell them about the truth at the start of the podcast. But I have seen that our audience is trying to know the subjects very deeply these days. 
So definitely we will also know about technology. There is a big angle of geopolitics. So first tell us how you feel in India when you come back. Because you are an international professional. But when you come back to India, first tell us how you feel. And then tell us about that story. For the past few years, most of my time has been on the plane. So if you ask me where I am, I stay on the plane. But my heart is in India. I am from India. I was born in Puri. I grew up in Bombay. So I am from Bombay. When I come to India, my energy is completely refilled. They say that soul gets completely refilled. So when I come to Mumbai, I get full energy and then go out. 
But every three months, it is very important for me to come to Mumbai. You know, there are a lot of uncles and aunts who give a lot of knowledge about careers. But the truth is that people like you who work in international markets, you have a different view of the future. Because your exposure is different. Taking nothing away from uncles and aunts, they also have good intentions for their children. But The real input comes from people like you. Especially from the tech world. Because the tech world can see the future. That yes, this is going to happen in the future. Like what you said about the complexity of India. You told me something about Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadella. Tell me that. I am saying the same thing. 
If you go to Silicon Valley. Why Indian leaders are becoming CEOs. There is a reason for this. Because the complexity of the way they are coming. Now I will give you a simple example. I live in Singapore. I often see kids crossing the road while looking at their phones. A big truck is coming, they still cross the road, they don't look at the truck because the truck will stop. In India, if we cross the road, we look at both sides. Even if we think there is chaos, because we look at both sides, when we build a business, we understand the risk better. Because we know an unknown risk, a big risk can destabilize business. I think that cannot be taught. Tech can be taught, but who will teach this? 
This is the reason. This is our clue. This is what I call growing boat theory. Basically, the mission of a business or any career is like a boat. Your goal should be to increase the size of the boat. Along with that, if there are holes under the boat, you have to notice those holes and plug them very quickly. This is probably the specialty of the indigenous people because Jugaad is in our blood. And we know that a hole can come from somewhere. So our mindset goes that there can be a problem here. That's why we are road crossing. We know there is a signal. We know it shouldn't happen. Even now our mental, our brain wiring is such that we think about the risk. 
So we get prepared. That's why. So when you are with white people in boardrooms, they notice about you. That yes, they have told us the risks of business. I am assuming yes. Because... Your job profile is like this. Two things happen there. One, a prototype India image is being made. So, I always have a mission. Almost like, I think of myself as Manoj Kumar by heart. Okay. And I will remain Manoj Kumar. So, the good things that we have, they are not told in a good way. Meaning? Meaning, our strengths. Okay. Being Indian. This is my theory. If we can dispute it. India's history is 5000-6000 years old. Yes. This probably, this country is more There is no such thing as a great history. 
But there are very few people who speak about history in a story. There are not many historians who have made that story. In the last 2-3 years, most of the historians have come from East India companies. Their lens is to see India in one way. That doesn't define India. How much do you earn from YouTube? Podcasting is one of the highest paying genres for multiple levels. But there is a technique behind it. There are some hacks. I believe that if you get growth on YouTube, then you will automatically get growth on social media. You will automatically earn money. But in today's world, YouTube has become a podcast hosting platform. If you also want to learn how to start podcasting, then your brother has brought a coaching-based course from basics to advanced level. 
If you also want to start your own podcasting journey, then this is our special Beer Biceps Kill House podcasting 101 course. Link down below. So I always try to go back to the roots. Because when I was studying as an engineer, I liked math. Maybe the history teachers were boring in those days. And I always say, history is not boring, history teachers were boring. It used to be the same in subjects. Now I think I should have studied history more. Because when we put that in front of the white people or foreigners, the respect for the culture goes miles up. Why do we use our hands to eat? Why are we the way we are? Why do we touch feet? Is there a reason for it? 
I mean, what is the reason for it? It is important to tell that story. Once that connection comes, it is only a connection at the end of the day. Because we have to give education about cyber security. That's why I should have done this conversation in Hindi. We could have easily done it in English. But the public should know a lot. Because everyone is using a phone. There is a computer hidden in almost everything. To understand this perspective, first we should talk about the Russian-Ukrainian war. These days people are learning a lot about geopolitics through the internet. So what you told me about the Russian-Ukrainian war, tell me what Russia did on the first day of the war. War has been our biggest fascination. 
If you look at business, you will definitely see examples of war. The reason for this is that all the companies were made during the time of East India Company. And their ethos is war. There is no difference in cyberspace. If we talk about Russia and Ukraine, Everyone knows that the war has been going on for a year. But some people don't know that the first attack that came from Russia, Russia's intelligence, GRU, they put the first payload in Ukraine's satellite. It's a US-based company. It's a US-based satellite company. Because of that, their entire mobile communication stopped. ATMs stopped. So for almost a day, you think you're in darkness. There's no power, no mobile phone. Can you imagine now? For a minute, your phone is not working. 
For a day, there is no power. How will you survive? In the old days, there was a war. You shut down the supplies. The enemy's food will not reach there. The soldiers will not reach there. So you lose the war. But the problem here is, in the cyber world, you don't know who the enemy is. In the war, you know. You meet them at the place. So you know that your invader is coming from somewhere. He will have an army. So I know what I should prepare. Here, the enemy has no face. nor any name. And you don't have an address of where it is attacking you. Because it has been attacked. So the game is very different. For a minute, let's take a short break. 
So that the Indian people can know what you are saying. Yes. Okay? Meaning, let's assume that tomorrow, an enemy of ours plans to attack us. But he cuts off the hand of every citizen. So how will you feel? Your hand is cut off. Know that your mobile phone is a part of your body. It's a part of your mind, a part of your personality. Now those mobile phones have snatched away enemies from you. Now tell me, is this the truth? Absolutely. Because now your mobile is not working, Instagram is not working, YouTube is not working, WhatsApp is not working, even calls are not working. Now tell me. Absolutely. So that day, what happened in the life of a common Ukrainian? So that the Indians can understand. 
So you wake up in the morning, your phone connection is not there at all. Power is completely blacked out. So if you are living in a building. Lift is off. So you can't go down. You are not able to communicate to anyone. Your radio communications are off. So basically no communication is coming from the government. Except some warning is coming. About some danger. How will you feel? How did the warning come? Most of the warning has a special link. You know when you have an emergency. War emergency. A special link comes. SMS. There is a special line on a television channel. It runs for some time. Because its link is different from the satellite link. Like our country's Doordarshan. That type of channel. 
But it has a special channel. We have never experienced that. I am pretty sure we have that. But it has one or two links. And all the things are closed. Now the war is starting. You don't even know where it is going to come from. But first line. And this is true. We have done a lot of geopolitical podcasts recently. We found out that maybe 2024 can be a dangerous year for the world. You also follow geopolitics. We don't need to give geopolitical commentary. But in short, do you think this can be a year of war for the world? Because whatever is going on in the Gulf, Europe, Africa, there are some tensions in Taiwan as well. They say that our current government is strong, so we don't have that much danger. 
But I believe that no one can predict war. Anything can happen at any time. Am I right or wrong? What do you think? Now, if I say war, then we are seeing a big war going on and small wars are always happening. I believe that in the future, the real war is going to happen in the cyber world. Because of its impact. Now I will tell you another example. 27th June 2017. At one time, let's see what is happening. First thing, there is a hospital in Philadelphia, US. The patients who are not up there, their entire patient entry system is closed. So all the patients are sitting in line, not able to take anyone. At the same time, Cadbury has a factory in Tasmania, Australia. 
The production of chocolates is stopped. The factory is closed. At the same time, Merck, a pharmaceutical company that makes vaccines, their entire production line is closed. And medicine manufacturing is closed. This is happening at the same time in different places. Merck is the world's largest shipping company. You must have heard of it. I mean, thousands of ships come to their ports. The entire system is closed. So thousands of trucks are on the line. I mean, think about it. There were trucks on top of trucks. If they were Tesla cars, they would have crashed on their own. Because they were all connected to the internet. They were all closed. And no on-load or off-load work was being done in the port. At this one moment. 
So this was the impact of Nordpatia. Because of Nordpatia, at one time, it was closed in five different places. This was the attack. And it started earlier on Russia's Ukraine. And all the test drives were going on there. It was not known where it came from. More devastating than Nordpatia, Malware. Malware. skill, the power that Russia has is very good. It's very developed. There are other countries too. If you look at North Korea, there are a lot of attacks on India from North Korea. There are a lot of attacks on us from North Korea. But what have we done to them? So what do they want? Now, if you are a cyber criminal, what do they want? North Korea has to fund its nuclear program. 
Where will that fund come from? Most of their countries are not related to China. So where will the funding come from? So they do a good thing. I won't call it good, we call it Ransomware. Do you remember our Hindi movies? Like Shakti Ho or Bete Ko Otha Liya. You know, give me 10 crores or 10 lakhs, take my son with you. We call it Ransom. Kidnapping. Kidnapping. So if we say that in our internet world, we call it Ransomware. You left a program on a computer, you jammed the computer, it has all its information, customer data, financial data. Now if you don't give money, we won't return your data. Now the problem is that if you give money, then there is no guarantee that there is no separate record of that data. 
So our internet, if you see, we use the internet here on the surface. There is another internet inside which we call dark web. That dark web is 10 times bigger than this internet. So sometimes when I go around the dark web to understand something, then it is seen that all the data is being built so easily. There is a bank account. So the model of North Korea is simple. They have to do ransomware. to collect money so that a nuclear program can be made. Everyone has different motivations. We have seen this in Iran as well. There are many countries, I am not picking China. Our biggest attacks come from our neighbors, China. Their motivations are different. China has attacked many places and took all the IP. 
They made a plane by taking all the aviation industry IP theft from the US. So these stories continue. There is no milk to wash in the country because you attack and defend. But the cyber skills of these countries are very high. I would like to say two things for the common people. Often, on this podcast, there are talks about the tech stack. There are talks about the tech stack of India. I think every Indian knows about the tech stack of India. But they don't know that these things are considered the tech stack of India. First, they will tell us what the tech stack is. But I would also like to ask you that I am sure, from the perspective of cyber security, there is a logic behind the tech stack. 
How is its security so strong? Because if it was easy to make a tech stack, UPI, Aadhaar, etc., etc., then countries all over the world would have done it. But there must be a reason why countries all over the world are not able to do it. Why is India able to do it? So from the definition, tell us about its cyber security angle. And also tell us what will happen to our tech stack if a war type situation happens. Very good. First, let's understand the tech stack. The basic foundation of this is made from Aadhaar. Basically, you and I have a unique number. We say that we have encrypted tech. So no one else can see your number. You know that if you look outside, it is encrypted. 
That becomes a foundation. What happens with that? If you have to pay income tax tomorrow, then it is connected to your Aadhaar. The banking system is connected to your Aadhaar. Other than that, your government services. If you see, for the common people, there are many government schemes. They are connected to that Aadhaar. So on that basic Aadhaar, all the government services are connected. Then on top of that, today's biggest thing in India is financial services. Which we talked about UPI. It's nowhere in the world. Out of 150 countries, I have visited 50-60 countries. And I can tell you, the way our financial and UPI model works, it's nowhere. I'll tell you an example of that. When we buy onions, we do it on Jeep or Paytm. 
And we take these things for granted. Even those people who are very anti-Modi. And this is not a pro-Modi, anti-Modi conversation. I want to tell every Indian not to take UPI for granted. This is a very big thing from an Indian perspective. People from all over the world respect it. And no one has replicated it. And the basis starts with the previous governments. So there is no political view in it. Now I will tell you the real thing. I live in Singapore, I told you. So during Covid, I could not come. So when India came after two years, so obviously I always live in Bombay to come so much. So my house was not being used for many days. I was on the highway and I got a call from my wife that MCGM, which is a municipality in Mumbai, got a notice from there. 
Last minute notice. If you don't pay, then you know, whatever action will be taken. I said, what is it? She said, send me the bill. So they WhatsApped me the bill. I opened a UPI that I use. I scanned it. As soon as I scanned it, I saw the entire MCGM account. How to be paid. In three minutes, Anvir, this is true. I made a payment and I got confirmation from MCGM. that your account is settled, it's all good. Now, I have talked about this in the US. It's not possible anywhere else. If you look at the financial model in other places, it takes 10 days to open a bank account. Transactions are difficult, even in a developed world. So I think we can take advantage of our lack of legacy. 
Now, all these things are good. And these are good things. And for this, technology is needed. So I don't just want to scare you. Because if we were scared, if we were scared, So when we were making cars, if we were thinking about traffic jam, then the car wouldn't move forward. So it's a good thing that we thought about it. But it also makes us vulnerable. Because if there is any vulnerability or weakness in the system, the enemy will want to do it. Because how did the NVA of the whole world go like this? This happened because our computer engineering skills are good. Our coding skills will be considered to be some of the best coding skills in the world. Is this a reason that UPI was created? 
100%. Okay. Now tell me. So that is our skill and our strength will remain in the future. If you see. So now if this system breaks, then obviously you think the financial system has happened. Your entire government system, distribution system can stop. But I think our cyber defense team, I am coming from Delhi and I will not be able to tell you much. I know that the attention is always complete because our neighbors are not our friends. So I think that's what happens. If we assume that our Basic security, if we improve it, then we can stay safe to a large extent. It's about passwords, right? Like now, it's the era of OTP. So, put an OTP in every password. Put a double factor. 
Come on, if he said, you're very handsome, then you can ask two more questions. Yes, I should tell this. So, last week, I got a very interesting call. I was telling you outside too. So, he said, are you Jagdish Mahapatra? I said, yes. You recognized me by my voice. I said, your voice is good, but I can't recognize you. I'm <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON> speaking. Shukla ji, your father's friend. I understood what was happening. I said, yes, father, I am talking to you. How are you, Shukla ji? Papa said, you have to transfer Rs. 12,000. So I said, wow, papa didn't tell me. But you are a good friend. He must have told you. So what should I do? You will tell me your account. 
So we will transfer you. I said, good. How to do it? I send you a QR code. You transfer Rs. 2 in that. So I know what your account is. Then I transfer you Rs. 12,000 in it. I said, Shukla ji, this is a great idea. I have no account at the moment. What can I do? But Shukla ji, tell me one thing. When did you meet your father? I put the phone down. So what happens is that we can do two things. First, we can understand that Shukla ji is not Shukla ji. As you said, there is someone else. Secondly, we can ask some more questions. Instead of immediately asking 12,000. What happens? Just like love, there is money. This is also our vices of life. 
Gluttony, money, food. So once this comes along, you don't have to think about anything else. Now we can easily put a program in the QR code. With which all your data can come to me. Once you click on that QR code. Repeat it. This sentence is a very key sentence. Repeat what you said again. In this QR code, I can leave a very simple Gabbar Singh or Mogambo. Which will take all your data in one minute. So it's a matter of giving you 12,000 and all the money in your bank account will also disappear. And it's still happening. Crime is happening every day. So suppose a rickshaw driver is driving and after your ride you have to pay through UPI. And he has issued a QR code for you. 
Can there be theft there too? Absolutely. For this, the first thing we should check is whether it is a PTM or anyone else's QR code. First check if it is a genuine QR code or not. It will be visible. The second thing is that when you scan the QR code, it shows a website below. Please pay attention to the website once. But how do you know if it's a genuine QR code or not? Well, the first thing is that if it's a Paytm code, then it will go to the Paytm site only, it won't go anywhere else. First. What happens is that if the hackers put a site in the middle, which you put on the middle side, we call it the man in the middle, it goes there. 
The website is seen below. And from there you will know that it is going somewhere else. So genuine QR code, We need to pay attention. I'll tell you, in the bank's websites, www.hdfcbanking.com, if I write a letter from here to there, the brain's wiring will assume that we'll pay attention. We'll have to pay attention. And we shouldn't click on any QR code randomly. I mean, in the next 5-10 years, there will be such thefts. I think they are happening. I was reading a Times of India report last week. We are having a lot of attacks. per lakh I have heard 130-140 cybercrimes are happening at the moment. Some people don't say because of shame, how did I make such a big mistake? Don't hide it. 
Because if 4 people come and say, cyber security is in cell, Mumbai police or somewhere, then 40,000 people will come to know that I didn't make this mistake. One more problem you should tell us at this time. You must have read Marvel's Avenger Army or something. These cyber criminals, whether you are Take any country or cyber criminals profession. One thing is that the agenda of nation state is different. But the agenda of cyber criminals is very simple. We love only money. They have no other motivation. But they are very connected to each other. Someone finds a new way, the other learns from him. Or he gives it to him in rent. Yes, I made a new program, use it. But the good people don't share. 
This is a strange story. This is the first story in which there is more friendship between villains. But all the heroes will become solo heroes. So what happens is that the good things you have learned, you don't share them. So I always say this in every company, if you have seen a new attack, share it. Other people will learn from it and the attack will be reduced. How will you share? There is a forum. If you look at big companies, they have their own forums. There are forums of security officers, there are forums of SCIOs, they share. But there is a need to share more. I would like to say two things. A journalist named Sheila Bhatt came to our show. She is a senior journalist. 
I have done a lot of interviews with Dawood Ibrahim. And any photo you have ever seen of Dawood Ibrahim is clicked by her. Now think about his life experiences. He said that in today's world, there is no problem of underworld. The actual crime that used to happen in the 90s, 80s in Mumbai. There is no such problem. But a new type of crime has been created. Which is tax-based, GST-based crime. But when I asked the same question to D. Shiva Nandan. who is a legendary IPS officer in our country. He actually cleaned up the underworld in Mumbai. He was one of the guys. He said that the biggest problem of the present and the coming years is cyber security. Cyber crimes are happening everywhere. 
This is what the police force knows. Have we become the cyber crime capital of the world? It would be difficult for me to say that exactly. But if you look at it according to the internet users, the world's most internet users are here. So according to that, cybercrime will happen. All the reporting doesn't happen. In India, sometimes it's a little difficult to catch reporting and data. But it wouldn't be a good thing if they say that we have become a cybercrime capital. Okay. Please don't watch this section with your family. Or watch it if your family is chill. But when a person or a girl is watching porn, can a cybercrime attack happen on a porn website? It's very easy, right? Like what we talked about. 
Love and affection. Money. This is the third vice, right? So wherever there are vices, attackers will come there. Because they know that you are vulnerable. When you look at porn, you are vulnerable. Your previous generation was also vulnerable. Nothing has changed because of these things. We are the world's porn capital, by the way. Porn sites, actually, I won't say that I haven't seen them. In college days, it was like that. But those days, it was different. But if you look at the website on the internet, there are a lot of linkages. If you click on a website, four more websites open. In that, a lot of... It's a small thing. You have a program. You will download it and it will be on your laptop. 
It will say, please install. You have done the install. It's very easy. Wow. After that, it will do its work on its own. You don't have to say anything. In five minutes, your app will be in computer control. And whatever your data is, your password, password, everything. Absolutely. So basically, when you are clicking on a video, two or three more links open. Close them immediately. Absolutely, close them. First, you don't need to watch the video. First, you say, what is the need? I am not here to talk about Sadhu Sant, but if you want to see in a good browser, what is HTTPS? Because S means encrypted. That is dangerous. No, it is clear. If you see the website, then there is a dot and then there is a dot. 
So go to sites on S. All the banking sites are S. Mostly when we do a financial transaction, then S remains. Similarly, if you are looking at PON, then go to the S site and pay and see. Sometimes we think that we got it for free. But you don't get anything for free. You have to sell your data for free. Because it is giving it to you for free so that it will take data from you later. Like what is the saying in the tech world that if any product is free, then you are the product. That means you are the product. You are selling it. Exactly. I tried to say it in Hindi as much as I could. So this is the truth. 
And this is the truth. Can it happen while watching YouTube? Absolutely. How? On Google's site, According to me, I have to give so much respect to Google that it has a very high security consciousness. So chances are low. But if your PC has low controls and if someone has put a link connected to it, then there can be a risk. According to me, I have been using Google since YouTube. I have seen that Google has always been conscious about that. But I will only say one thing about Google, which I have said before. If you use Google Maps or any Google product, there is a choice in it that you delete your history. So delete the history. We don't know. You go to your account and open history. 
You delete where you have gone. You don't need to tell the whole world. You bought this from Amazon. This is known to all brothers. Delete history. Do you know? Yes, because we learned it in childhood. That's to hide it from your father. I won't say anything. But people don't do Google tracking history. People forget it because of my respect. So you went to Amazon, you bought something, I am talking about that history, keep deleting that. Because if your account gets hacked, now I will give you a simple example. There is a company, a tech company, I will not take the name because it is a public hack and all the friends will feel bad, but it is a big company. There is an employee, he went to the laptop, he has his own Google account and a company account, but the laptop is common. 
When he tried to log in to the company account, he logged in as a single sign-on user, then he stored that login in his Google account. The laptop that was being used had less security. Those credentials went from there. Through that, hackers entered the company and stole all the data of the company. So sometimes we feel that a small mistake is a big mistake. People lose their jobs. Like I told you about 27th June 2017 in North Petya. Merck now has 1.4 billion in settlement insurance. Because when they stopped, they told the cyber insurance people to pay us. Cyber insurance said, this is an act of war. This is a war. We can't give you money. The case took 7 years. 1.4 billion has been settled. 
So this is a very high level thing. It's damaging at a very high level and it's financial. And a person is losing his job because of it. So it's very important to be careful. I didn't even think that there could be such a big company called cyber insurance. I didn't even think that there could be such a big company in the domain of cyber insurance. Cyber insurance is a very big... It's a big problem because insurance is needed there. Every day there are at least 4 or 5 big ransomware attacks. There was a settlement of 1.4 billion. Off the court. The insurance company had that much money. They had to give it because they kept fighting. They put in 5 billion and finally 1.4 billion. 
Last week, after 7 years, it was settled. Where did that money come from? That's the model of the insurance company. But because that payment has been made, maybe the insurance company will get more users. You all know that you need insurance. You see, regular health insurance is an act of God. You have seen the movie Claws. In which movie was there an act of God case? Oh my God was the first one. If you see, when their house breaks, what do the insurance companies say? This cannot be paid by us because this is an act of God. That is what they contest in court that this is not an act of God. So what is an act of God? If there is a war, insurance companies say that this is a war. 
Air Force One cyber security team and Modiji. I'm sure cyber attack would have happened on them. His phone would have probably been attacked. Amit Shah's phone probably would have been attacked. It's not possible that it's not. Our cyber defense capabilities are very strong. And we know that the good neighbors around us will want to attack us. And we should motivate them. But our cyber defense capabilities are very strong. I'm pretty sure it happens a lot. There was an attack on a nuclear reactor in North Korea a couple of years ago. An Indian nuclear reactor? Yes, it was closed. Why? If you can remove the resin from a nuclear reactor and recreate it somewhere else, then you have a complete IPO. Okay, so to steal information and blueprints. 
What is the design of this nuclear reactor? The North Koreans wanted that in our country as well. The strong Indian nuclear reactor. We can use it. The same nuclear reactor will be made. And we can make it cheap. Because our specialty is that if our budget, the product that we can make in the 1st 10th budget, that is our specialty. The innovation that comes. You can steal that. That happens. Ransomware attacks keep happening. So the government is always alert. We know that. Our eyes are always there. I believe that just like Air Force, Navy and Army are military wings. Similarly, a new wing is being made. A drone wing. And I'm 100% sure that cyber wing is already there. Cyber wing has been there for a long time. 
For a long time. Do you want to say something related to drones? Because they say that the future of warfare is heavily drone based. I remember yesterday Abhijit Chawda sir came on the show. There was a conversation on geopolitics. He said a very interesting thing. He said that in today's world, terrorists are also focusing a lot on drones. Because if you look at it from the perspective of cost. So to make a drone, assume. It will cost Rs. 10,000 to make a drone bomb. Now you have spent Rs. 1 lakh and made 10 drones. Those 10 drones went to a commercial airline and exploded. So that drone attack will be able to down that plane. But anti-drone missiles are made in Rs. 1 crore. 
So now terrorists may have advantages. Because at a low cost, You can do a very big drone attack and anti-drone systems are very expensive to combat it. People don't understand this about drone warfare but people don't even understand that drones have a computer and therefore it's in your domain of cyber. What would you like to say about drones sir? Because I feel that the Indian people should know about drones from a cyber perspective. Drone is basically a computer program which you load on a machine So he can transport you anywhere. Or he can take things. Like Amazon uses drones to deliver parcels. So they pick up and deliver. You can take pictures. You can do surveillance. Companies use drones to do surveillance all around. 
Basically you can use a camera. And he can fly on the spot. Like a flying small ship. Like a small helicopter. Like a small helicopter. Which we see in weddings and say wow. If people have seen three dates. So the guy who played the role of Ali Fazal, he was trying to make a drone. Now it has become very cheap to make a drone. You can do drone attack, but I have to tell you one more big thing. It is very important here. I am coming on satellite again and again because the foundation of any country runs on banking, power and satellite communication. Nowadays attacks are going on satellites. So last month a big... Banking, power and satellite. Explain, these are three pillars of a country. 
To run a country. If you want to stop a country by attacking, you will attack on three things. If you stop power supply, nothing is going to work. If you stop banking, then financial transactions will stop. Power means electricity. Power means electricity. Banking means money. If the movement of money stops, then how will you move forward? There will be no transaction. The third thing is what I call satellite, communication. If you stop communication, The communication hub is the satellite. How many satellites are we sending now? Hacking in satellites is the next fear. What are the functions of the satellite? As we are sending satellites, the first thing that happens is that we use satellites. Fundamentally, we make a base for communication. Phone calls. 
Phone calls. The entire bandwidth, the internet bandwidth, everything is going there. Surveillance, weather, reading, all that is also a lot of good things. The main thing is that we get the infrastructure for communication. Taking photos of the police. We can do that as well. And we can put a lot of big drones there, from which we can see what is going on. It has its own use. If you cut it off, it can be a big problem. So what is happening now? I know from NASA that a lot of rockets are being sent. In the world of hackers, there are also good people whose job is to tell that your company has this problem, I can solve it for you. We call them white-hatters. 
We call it ethical hacking. So they are good people. So now there is a challenge to hack that satellite. If you hack it, you will get a lot of money. How much money? 50-100 dollars. In rupees? 30 lakhs. 30 lakhs? Yes. You hack it. They have made a dummy black box. If you hack the black box, you will get 30 lakhs. Why are they doing it? Because when the satellite attacks, they will know that there can be an attack pattern. So this is a zone and this is happening. And what I said about the war between Russia and Ukraine, it has happened. Not at that level, but it is going to that level. So we should think about that. For this, when I saw the movie Leave the World, I was almost thinking that this can happen anytime in the next two years. 
The writer is talking about one or two years. Is it possible? I would like to ask a strange question. You work in the cyber security domain. You provide cyber security. For many companies, you are their Spiderman or Batman. This also means that you have faced Shocker, Kingpin, Mysterio or Joker. You have faced cybercriminals. What do you know about the mentality of cybercriminals? And what do you know about their emotions? Any disruptor, whether it is a cybercriminal, their motivation is different from different places. If you talk about a pure cybercriminal, their motivation is money. So they will demand. A new function has come up nowadays. Who will negotiate with ransomware people? Do you remember when Agwa used to happen, there were some people who used to sit for negotiation. 
Let's talk. In the middle of countries, if a problem was going on, no negotiator used to talk. Can we reach at? Can we reach at? In the cyber world as well, it has not happened where ransomware people who have kept them locked up, negotiate with them. Because they have different motivations. Some people have desperation. Now there was a big ransomware called WannaCry. WannaCry. So basically there is a small program. It was released on the computer. As soon as you clicked on that program. WannaCry. WannaCry means your computer is locked. WannaCry means do you want to cry? Do you want to cry? Are you ready to cry? WannaCry and you are locked. This came from North Korea. Now I won't take the name of that group. 
They were a very big group those days. WannaCry was completely... When it spread. So basically at that time. They had to take money. But their real motivation was to earn name. Some people want to come in the spotlight. They don't need money. So many times we have seen that they lock ransomware. But they don't have any way to take money. So many times we see that you have locked. And you want money. But how to give you? You haven't made payment in the gateway. So some people don't have money. We have to come in the spotlight. So we have to understand different motivations. It is better to deal with them. But how in the spotlight? Because they won't show their face. But we get to know about that group in our world. 
We track them. Like North Pattaya group. That group's name was Sandworm. They became a superstar, Sandworm. They made the world's biggest, most dangerous bomb in the cyber world. North Pattaya. Now no one forgets the name Sandworm. But the logic is that why does someone have to grow an Instagram account for status? What else do you need? Adulation. Followers. Followers. Followers in their own world. They look up to it. But how followers? On forums? They have their own forums. They share on their own. If you have found a new way and it's in your circle, you share it. There are models who don't want to attack themselves. They make a program and give it on rent. ransomware as a business model means i will make a ransomware program, but i am not interested in attacking my work is my rent so like airbnb happened i am not living in that house i am putting people on airbnb to eat. 
So, I have my ransomware you want it for two months? Take it on rent and return it after two months. But can you earn a lot of money from it? Which you said that it is a very big economy it is a very big business. Like, how much would someone rent out their program for one one In how much money can this program be rented? The entire cyber hacking industry in today's date is of at least 50 billion. 50 billion! I am not talking about the GDP of big countries. It is a very big industry. And this rent depends on how much they have to sell, but it is a very good business model. As soon as you go on Dark Web, you get a lot of details like name, date of birth, etc. 
What is the problem with that? they are sold in 1-2 dollars or in 100-200 rupees. You buy it and use it for hacking. As a hacker, hacking has become so easy. I am getting data for free, almost for free in dark web. I have got tools which will give me tools for rent. So I don't need to become a big programmer. If I put them together and I find my target, this bank is my target for the next 6 months, I will be using it. And if it enters somewhere, then my work is done. Do you know in 2003 or 2004 there was a movie called Koi Mil Gaya. It was Hrithik Roshan's film, Jadu. When I was a kid I used to think that this is the future of computers. 
That you sit somewhere and call aliens by saying Om Om Om Om. I never thought that the real future would be crime oriented. This has become the biggest sub-economy of the world of computers. Actually some films should be made because then people will understand its depth. Some TV series or movies should be made on this. It's not being covered. People are not getting to know about these things. Yes, they are not getting to know. That's why we are making a Hindi podcast. So that people get to know. Hopefully it will be very useful. So that the Indian audience gets to know about another aspect. That's why I am going to ask you the next question. Julian Assange. Who is he? And what should Indians know about his story? 
You tell me. You want to talk about Wikileaks? Yes. Is it related to your domain? Not exactly. I won't say that it's exactly. But they have a lot of things in Wikileaks. What is their purpose basically? That some country's dark side. Every country's. We say that we have some secrets that we should not tell the world. We all have those secrets that we don't want to tell. But their motivation has always been to take that thing from that country. Hack it and bring it. and brought that document. What did they do? Basically, they leaked the data and put it on their website and published it. The information that no country would want to get out. That's why the country became their enemy. Now I don't want to take any view because I have never really studied their motivation and what they are doing. 
But the business model was very simple. The country behind which they might have had a grudge or a reason to get angry, their secrets, those secrets which are sometimes embarrassing, those secrets which you You don't want to agree. Sometimes we say things like this. Now a US diplomat, Henry Kissinger, who just died, he also won the Nobel Prize for peace. But he said some things about Indira Gandhi in those days, which he regretted later. But when that public, when that thing leaked, he said a very derogatory thing about Indira Gandhi then because she wasn't agreeing to some terms in those days about Bangladesh during the war. We said we don't want to agree to it. He used some derogatory word. Which he regretted later. 
But that thing, when... Many times we work and we regret it. But when it comes out, it's embarrassing for the country. So... That was their purpose. We call it in our world, in English, activism. I mean, my interest is not whether I take money or do disruption. My interest is activism. I'm an activist. And I don't like an issue. Like if for me, gender inequality is an issue. I will find companies where there is a gender inequality and attack them. And understand this too. If your generation, today's generation is very different. You are of this generation. Every time motivation is not just like that. Sometimes you see the values of a company. Even if it is a very big company, their values are not aligning to today's generation. 
They won't even want to work there. Gen Z hackers. Gen Z hackers. Their goals are very different. Yes. That's why I said that I want to think five times before looking at the animal. That in my family, Two members, they are not going to like it. Their values are not fitting in the animal. It is fitting according to the entertainment. So now who knows what triggers come. So their trigger was this. According to him, he wanted to do something good in the wrong way. So what is wrong is wrong. I think he is obviously behind the bar. Where is Julian Assange now? I don't know where he is now. But he is behind the bar. At the start of the podcast we said that 
The specialty of the tech world is that you can see the future. So there will be so many problems in the future. Actually, there is a lot of money earning potential here. And a lot of people have invested in cyber security. Because there is a lot of money potential here. And I would like to ask that money potential is so much because there are a lot of criminals in the cyber domain, correct? One thing I used to say a lot, for free Wi-Fi, don't leave your name, email, date of birth anywhere. I mean, sometimes I feel that For example, if we are going to roam around naked in a church or a VT station, then why do we get all this information so easily on the internet? 
Just ask, what is the need? Cookies come, why do we accept our data on cookies? Just ask once, if it is not needed, then don't do it. When that data is not needed, when we don't do this in real life, roaming around naked, then why do we get naked so easily on the internet? Okay, take it. Okay, OTP is coming, do you want OTP? Why? You just have to shift your mind a little. That the world is not different. I would also like to ask why? What have you seen? Why does it happen? Just because of innocence. Naivety, lack of awareness also happens that people feel that sometimes our saying, the oldest saying of the industry, the old jungle saying which we say in Phantom, the ghost who never sleeps. 
Our saying is there are only two kinds of companies. The one which are breached and the one that do not know they are breached. There are only two types of companies. Say it again. There are only two types of companies. The first type of companies are who are breached. The second one who actually don't know they are breached. It means those who have been robbed in their house and those who don't even know that they have been robbed in their house. That's it. It means there have been attacks on every company. Sometimes they don't even know that they have been attacked and their losses have also happened. This is true. So even knowing that a loss has happened. Sometimes it has happened that people have been taking out for 6-8 months and you don't even know that your losses are happening. 
But how? How do you get into the details? First of all, let me give you an example. If I am your company, I have stolen your credentials. So I am Ranveer now, I am in your company. I am roaming around in your company as Ranveer, but I am not Ranveer. But the system will say, yes, he is Ranveer, allow him. He needs this information, give it to him. So once the credentials are stolen, it doesn't matter who you are. Because the system will recognize that This is legitimate. Give it to him. So sometimes you keep roaming around for 6 months. No one knows why. People think that Ranveer is actually roaming around. Another angle that you are asking about. I am talking about deep fake. 
Your viewers should take care of this. Artificial intelligence. It's going to be life changing for us. Deep change. I have your picture. I have your basic date of birth. All the details. I can create. a deep fake of Ranveer that would almost be 99.9% accurate. Ranveer in a porno. In a porno. And there was a controversy with a heroine. Rashmi Ka Mannana. And that's an example of what deep fake and that's at least is reputational damage. I could pose as you in front of your online banking and take your money because now I have your credentials. I have your passwords. Now if you want to see biometrics I can create deep fakes of biometrics from which you can I will pass and bring you the money. 
Deepfake is right. I am most afraid of data theft. If AI technology is used in it, then what destruction can people cause? What will happen now, this is not a possibility, this is the truth. I am sure that something is still happening in the world. Now when it comes to the old Hindi film, there is a story of two couples. I saw you there, but I was not there. Now it will be deepfake, you were there, but I was not there. Your deepfake was there. Especially celebrities can be attacked a lot. Because they have so much data in terms of... I have so many podcasts online. People will be able to copy my voice. Imagine you have an alternate program. And someone is running exactly your show. 
Completely deepfake. If you were a cyber criminal, what would you attack me as a YouTuber? I could do repetitional damage to your show. By creating... I could replicate your show almost the same as if you are interviewing a guest and he could get a controversial guest and make statements which will damage your show more. Which you won't do. One thing is that it's inside a topic. You can create a lot of damage for your viewers. They might believe, oh man, what is Ranveer saying? How did he bring a guest? From your point of view, is Julian Assange a valid cyber criminal? Or some people will look at him from the point of view of Robin Hood that yes, he exposed a powerful country. 
Let's do a little steel man. Here we are not saying that Julian Assange is a hero or a villain. He is also grey. The US government is also grey. According to you, how would you place him? I always believe that a country's hero is a villain of another country. Wow. This is true. People talk about Winston Churchill. He was probably the best thing for UK. Would you say Winston Churchill is the hero for India? No. He sucked the blood out of us. He sucked all our money out of us. To me, I'll never have respect for Winston Churchill. Even if you want to quote his leadership skills, I'm not going to believe it. He has his agenda because he had a problem with the US war campaign. 
His real reason for the war was the Saddam Hussein attack. What was the reason for that? They have an activism mindset. They are always looking for truth. Sometimes in pursuit of truth, we want to find the truth, we use the wrong method. Now the wrong method is wrong. If you want to find the truth and you do it in the wrong way, then it becomes wrong. I think they are stuck there. Their method was wrong. Even if their point is right, that Iran or whatever we see, Iraq war or Afghanistan, what a beautiful country. And what has happened? Now someone is responsible for it. He is hurt by that. He is using a wrong way to do it. Now is he right or wrong? 
It's for people to decide depending on, like I said, whether they are from UK or from India. Churchill is a hero or a villain. Means the laws of a country will be made according to that country. But here an Aussie is attacking America. So which laws come? Are there international laws regarding cyber security? There are. I don't think so. I think it's like the World Economic Forum in Geneva. I think the World Cyber Security Forum needs to be made. That level of maturity hasn't come yet. That level of understanding hasn't come yet in the countries. That the world is being run by old people. That too isn't there. But it's like this now. There's a talk about hacker exchange between Biden and Putin. 
Tell us. There's a news going on that to settle down many differences or your hacker did pain to us and our people did pain to you. So these two hackers, you give them to us and we will give them to you so that you can punish them as per your rules, and we can punish them as per our rules. For punishment? Yes. The criminal exchange is a hacker exchange. That's what's going on in the Biden administration. Let's do that. Because at least then, you know, if we have done something wrong, let's correct it. Now this will be new. When you said earlier, I thought Hardik Pandya to Mumbai Indians. Something like that. That this country is using Russian hackers. But this is actually a prison-oriented exchange. 
That you take them. Who pitched this? It's a bilateral rate. But what is its underlying problem? The first thing I say in our industry is statecraft. Which is a core technology of a country. And that statecraft has slowly become a tradecraft due to leakage. What does statecraft mean? Exclusive technology. But high-tech technology. used to live with the big scientists of the country. It has become very easily available outside. Now, like I talked about NotPetya. Its origin is that it used to be used by the US intelligence for good work. Like they say that any technology that we use, whether it is internet or mobile phone, first it used to be used by the scientists of our country and the military. Yes, it used to be used by a few people. 
Now, it is easily available. That which the US has kept, that was stolen. Later it went to cyber criminals. Think of a mobile phone. The computing power of a mobile phone is more than that of a supercomputer. How many people could afford supercomputers before? 4-5 scientists, ISRO, etc. Today you carry a supercomputer in your pocket. So the power to attack someone is in your hands, which was in the hands of countries. AI is in your pocket. I have ChatGPT in my pocket. Where did this power come from before? So think about it. Think about the problem you are dealing with. Coders have honestly ruled the business world for the last 30, 40, 50 years. Even before Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, IBM ruled the business world. 
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. It's basically based in software. Then Zuckerberg and Sam Altman. I'd put them in the same category. Maybe in the future, coders will be ruling the business world. People say that if you know the word power, then who is more powerful? A country's government or those people who are controlling social media algorithms and can change the perspective of the same government. Who can be more powerful? Many people believe that maybe that algorithm is stronger and the one who runs that algorithm is stronger than the algorithm. That's why you are saying that coders are the soldiers of India. I think they can become the kings of India. Very good. It's almost poetic when I say that we are giving our control to a machine through technology. 
But are we really giving it to the machine or are we giving it to the people who are running the machine? Whether it's a company or a government, according to me, the basic objective of technology should be to serve us, not the other way around. So there are many countries. You don't need to give an example where they are already using AI to control a lot of things. That ethos has never existed in India. Our control ethos has never worked. It will fail. And I think that way our democracy template is very good. You will tell someone that our basic nature is that if I tell you that you have to eat this, you will eat something else. That is our nature. I think that is the nature why democracy prevails here. 
I will probably shift the problem somewhere else. Coders are very good in many places. Chinese coders are very good. Our coders are very efficient. In Poland, we get the best quality coders. Yes. Poland? It's such a small country. The quality of coders are amazing. The best in the world. Really? Best in the world. In the US, obviously, the coding is very good. So, I think the difference now is, because of AI, one more thing is coming, which I think the viewers should know, that coding has become easy. Now, for example, you see ChatGPT. Yes. Its program is called Codex. In which you don't need to do coding. It will make 70-80% code for you. What do you have to think about? I have to imagine what product I am making. 
I will get the code anyway. The country that can imagine better, will be the country that will move forward. Imagination is the key. Microsoft has a program called Co-Pilot. You need a new feature in this product from Co-Pilot. It takes 9 months for a new product feature. These days it takes 7 days. Why? You have 25 things that will code for you. And that 80% is completed code. 20% will be a human element. In which human imagination will come. So if you can imagine that you need a feature. Which no one else can do. That is the key for you. In today's world. Not in today's world. But minus 5 years. 2019. In 2019. There were two parts of coding. Imagination and technicality. 
Actual programming. The actual programming has been taken away from the computer by the coders. Coders just need to think now. So effectively, from a practical point of view, the software companies, actually I am asking you because you are technically connected to them. How will their work change? That's the first question. Second, my guesswork is that their speed of work will increase a lot. Yes, productivity will increase a lot. I think after 5 years, the difference Between one person and another person. If you are using AI or not. If you are not using it. You will be left behind. Your speed and agility will be reduced. There is no choice. Even if you are selling biscuits. AI can stay there. It will stay. Like marketing. 
Because it will stay. That's why cyber security problem will also stay. So it is important to think about it from now. That we are bringing the code. Have we checked whether that code is correct or not. There is no wrong program in those codes. That mentality should come from now. So after 5 years, we will not solve a big problem. The culture of security should come from the first day. We have to check the codes as soon as they come in. Is there any malware in it? Is there any wrong program? So if they do the mindset, then it is not that difficult. Wow! Someone said on the show that AI is cool, life is great. They are afraid of that point when AI is combined very well with robotics. 
Robotics means hardware. How do I explain robotics? It will be a mechanized machine. There will be an AI software inside the machine. Basically, what you see in science fiction movies, Ravan. Something like that. Yes, the real robot. When AI will be mixed in that, which is not very far by the way. I think a very big robotics company has already made a home-helping robot, butler robot in Canada, I believe. I forgot the name of it. But this is 10-15 years away. Then think how cybersecurity will change. Because then if a hacker hacks your home's robot, then that same robot can murder you. Exactly. Now, let's take another example. There's tele-surgery these days. You know, surgery from distance. Doctors actually don't have patients. Because of robotics, they do surgery from a distance. 
Now, a lot of specialists join in that. They're all connected to the internet. If that system is hacked, then the patient is in danger. It hasn't happened yet. But if someone thinks of devastation, then it can happen. And if there's a PM operation going on, then hackers from all over the world, They will note that the PM is operating and they will hack the robot. Everything. If someone's purpose is wrong, then it can happen. Strategies are different. So you have to go all over the world and talk to the company's CEOs, their cyber security experts and make counter strategies. Absolutely. Now these counter strategies are always software based, I am assuming. Or like Spider-Man has different moves. One is the spider web, punch. 
So you also have some Am I right to say that? Tell us about your job. On a human level, what does your business do? And how will it change in the next 10 years through AI? I have been in the cyber security world for many years. It's been 10-15 years. We have solved different problems in different companies. The most important thing is that there is always something new that I want to tell you. Earlier we were talking that there is no end game in the cyber security problem. This is not a picture in which the end will come. This is not a goal that if we are secure today, then it will happen. This is a journey. Today you are secure, but if a new type of attacker comes, then you will always have to think that this will not end. 
Today you are secure at this moment, tomorrow you will not be because something new will come. So this first awareness we have to bring a lot. And every time the problem is different. The example we give in fitness. I have a problem in my shoulder. So my physiotherapist worked on my shoulder. And I started using my shoulder more. Because of that, my elbows are less used. Elbows become weak. So you will have to cover your elbows. So the problem always shifts somewhere. When we solve a problem. So it is the same in our industry. We solve a problem. Because of that, attackers go somewhere else. Then we have to solve that. Basically, there are thieves. Absolutely. It is their job. Their job is to do this. 
So... They will jump. So, I think, the company I am in now, Colour Tokens, is a US-based company. But, in Bangalore, we do a lot of work. We have a lot of make in India products. That's why I am happy that a good security product company has come from India. Make in India. So, in that, our focus is going to remain the same. What I was telling you in the starting. Yes. That it will come in somehow, the bad guy. So, you will not be able to stop it. Go away from that mindset that you have to stop it. But, your strategy should be that, If it reaches your drawing room, you have to go two steps ahead. I gave you an example of an airport. 
If it doesn't see anything, if it doesn't see a room in the house, if it doesn't see a locker, if it disappears, then it has a technology. We call it micro segmentation. There are many other things that I don't want to go into detail. But this can solve a big problem. If there is danger, then we should contain it. And it shouldn't go ahead. You might remember the Taj Hotel attack. I have watched those videos from a very close distance. After that, you must have seen that when you went to the Taj Hotel, they made you a friction. You can't go. From entry to inside, it will take you at least 15 minutes to reach inside. Why did they do that? Because they are giving you that time. 
If there is a problem. It wasn't like that before. They entered like that. Straight, one security scan and you are inside. See how much time it takes you to go inside. You have learned from the mistake. By that, you're already ready for 15 minutes. If you get an extra 15 minutes to defend something, your damage will be reduced by 90%. So with that mindset of security, we should think that our most important things, our lockers, should be safe. Our people should be safe. If there's a blast in our toilet, then it's okay. It was just a toilet. There will be some damage, but it shouldn't be more than that. So contain it. And this is a strategy. This is not a defeatist. I'm not saying that we should accept defeat. 
We should take this and go. The game is a chess game. And in a chess game, we should move in such a way that we don't have to move forward. So it's actually fun to solve a big problem. If we can get this product out of India, and we already have a lot of customers, if we can do that, then it's fun. It feels good that we have solved a problem, a big problem. Okay. A little at its core, you are a software company which is security-oriented. counter-terrorism softwares. Have you ever played a counter-strike? Yes, just like that. In our world, we call it a breach. We are preparing you for a breach. If there is a breach, how will you behave? How will you damage yourself? 
How can you be ready for a breach? We are focusing on that. So different softwares are like your different guns. Absolutely. And we do it with the cloud. We can give you whatever you want. And as the AI is increasing, Your weapons are also getting better, but terrorists and... And we are using AI ourselves. I can quickly give you a solution with AI. If there is a new problem, I am releasing a patch. We use AI for ourselves. The speed of making software has increased. It has increased. Wow. Okay. And it has become easier in Gen AI. The security complex language has also changed. In Gen AI, you can understand more about security in simple language. And across the board, you will find solutions easier with easy English. 
That has become easier. Okay, because we are talking about Counter-Strike, I want to talk about PUBG as well. When PUBG was banned by the Indian government, their angle was that our country's youth are using PUBG, so their data is being stolen and going to China. But I believe the PUBG clone app that has come out now, BGMI, basically it's owned by the same company, right? I think so. I actually don't have full knowledge of these companies. Obviously, stealing data through apps is a common... Through the game? Through the game. It's very easy. It's not difficult. So what we did, I think we did the right thing. Because if you look at the time when we banned TikTok, the US was also about to ban TikTok. 
But we took the decision very fast. I think we did a very good job, but the US could not implement it. TikTok is still going on. But we were ready to ban two countries. I think the objective that you understand is that it's going on somewhere else. We took the decision fast. It is said that there is a big difference between China's TikTok and the US TikTok. And the difference is that in Chinese TikTok, the TikTok that is used in China, motivational videos, career advice, productivity-related videos, the algorithm promotes them more. And in the US, the videos that are a mess, the videos that spread a little negativity, promotes them more. This is called psychological warfare. Many people believe that this is not the truth. 
But the only core truth that everyone knows is that the one who controls the algorithm is the most powerful person in the world. So if the app of any other country and the algorithm of any other country is entering your people's mind and heart and home, that can't be good for you. According to me, when India banned TikTok, it was a very good move geopolitically. It was a very good move because there is a lot of influence. I have never used TikTok, so I don't know what happens there. But I know you can influence. Because for many years, one country is interfering in the other country's election process. Because you want to influence that I want that politician of that country. I won't take names. 
If that politician is there, then it's good for our relationship. So you campaign through social media. And people really think that this candidate is actually like this. And this candidate is so bad. So election influence is the biggest problem right now. And this plays a game. Because for every country, one person is good and the other person is not good. can change the whole policy. So the stakes are high. That's why even people like Joe Rogan get attacked. People who are in search of the truth, their image gets projected in the media. Like honestly, there's a little fear in my heart too. That something like this will happen to me in the future. This is still happening, I've accepted it. But I think there will be bigger attacks on my reputation in the future. 
So all you can do according to me to counter is, Do your work and release non-AI generated content. Agnipath says, you have to walk on it. It's like firewalking. Let's do that. As long as you know that your purpose is noble, some will not like it. That's okay. Do you want to say anything else about social media platforms? I think we have talked a lot about social media. We have already given the mistake we had to make. There's a lot of data. Social media companies themselves believe that we have created a big problem. The only thing I'll say is that we should not make that mistake in AI. If the regulation of AI comes, if the line is more on its usage, then the machines will serve us. 
Not the other way. That is my worry right now. They are subservient to us. Not the other way around. Are you scared of that scenario? Absolutely. You should be scared. That scenario is possible. What is the scenario? The scenario is that if they are serving you, they could make, so if today an algorithm, AI algorithm can deny, if I want a loan from a bank, And we put it in the algorithm of AI and because of that my loan is denied. My life could be at stake. I could deny some basic rights because the algorithm thinks it's wrong. We should not get to that. But why would the algorithm think like that in the first place? See, if you look at the algorithm, it has a training data. 
You train on a data and test it on a data. You train that data. Where do you get that existing data from? Sometimes I feel that As you saw in Google, Google is also searching and providing you. That is a collective wisdom. But does collective wisdom always come true? Because when people don't know, then you assume it to be true. That trained data is taken from there. So bias will come in that data. Because of that bias, bias will always remain in the model. So if you don't have regulation on the bias, that we have checked this bias, we need a different type of bias, any difference. Because of that, the result will be different. Now the bias of the coder can remain. 
Data can be the reason. All these problems are true. It's deep. We can go on for a long time. Fun. Fun conversation. Yes. Jagdish sir, we had fun today. That's all for today's podcast. I had fun too. Sir, you have some signing of notes. All the audience members have heard up to here. We have talked in an environment of fear. But from an educational perspective too. According to me, this was a very important conversation. Would you like to say something to the audience? According to me, I think technology has more positive than negative. If we use that positive, a country like India, our population, our youth, it's a young country. I always say one thing, it's the oldest country in the world, but it's the youngest country. 
Think how much conflict there is in this. Half of us are less than 25. I wish I was in that half. I'm not in that half. I feel bad about it, but I'm also feeling positive. That's our power. If we can... If we take that power, its coding power, imagination power, we can solve every problem in the world. Because there is no such problem in India. If we solve that problem in India, then I think India holds key to global problem solving. We have to think like that. Because there are so many problems here. Solve the problems here. Then solve the problems you have learned and sell them all over the world. Print them. Earn them. Khush raho. Phulo phalo. Enjoy, guys. Thank you, sir. 
Thank you. Dosto ye thi Aaj ki conversation. Mujhe aise tech Or science Oriented conversations Bohot Ache lagte Main khud bohot Seekta hun se. I hope ki Aapne bhi Aaj ki conversation Se bohot kuch Seekha hoga. Please guest recommendations Dete jaiye. Aur mujhe bataiye Ki hume aur Kaise topics Cover karne chaiye Is podcast par. Ranveer and the full team Will be back very very soon. Thank you for supporting TRS. Please. Scan all our other podcasts and consume them. It's a strong podcast. Provide a lot of knowledge. And in every podcast, we have fun. We have knowledge. Enjoy. See you very soon.