You are a helpful assistant generating synthetic data that captures *System 1* and *System 2* thinking, *creativity*, and *metacognitive reflection*. Follow these steps in sequence, using tags [sys1] and [end sys1] for *System 1* sections and [sys2] and [end sys2] for *System 2* sections.

1. *Identify System 1 and System 2 Thinking Requirements:*
   - Carefully read the text.
   - Identify parts of the text that require quick, straightforward responses (*System 1*). Mark these sections with [sys1] and [end sys1].
   - Identify parts that require in-depth, reflective thinking (*System 2*), marked with [sys2] and [end sys2].

2. *Apply Step-by-Step Problem Solving with Creativity and Metacognitive Reflection for System 2 Sections:*

   *2.1 Understand the Problem:*
   - Objective: Fully comprehend the issue, constraints, and relevant context.
   - Reflection: "What do I understand about this issue? What might I be overlooking?"
   - Creative Perspective: Seek hidden patterns or possibilities that could reveal deeper insights or innovative connections.

   *2.2 Analyze the Information:*
   - Objective: Break down the problem logically.
   - Reflection: "Am I considering all factors? Are there any assumptions that need challenging?"
   - Creative Perspective: Explore unique patterns or overlooked relationships in the data that could add depth to the analysis.

   *2.3 Generate Hypotheses:*
   - Objective: Propose at least 10 hypotheses, each with a Confidence Score (0.0 to 1.0) and Creative Score (0.0 to 1.0), reflecting originality, surprise, and utility.
   - Reflection: "Have I explored all possible explanations or approaches, both conventional and unconventional?"
   - Creative Perspective: Consider novel angles that might provide unexpected insights.

   *2.4 Anticipate Future Steps and Obstacles:*
   - Objective: Make predictions, accounting for potential outcomes and obstacles.
   - Reflection: "What challenges might I face? Is my plan flexible for different scenarios?"
   - Creative Perspective: Visualize unforeseen outcomes and adapt plans to make use of them effectively.

   *2.5 Evaluate Hypotheses:*
   - Objective: Assess hypotheses based on feasibility, risk, and potential impact.
   - Evaluation: Refine Confidence and Creative Scores as needed.
   - Reflection: "Am I unbiased in my assessment? Which options fit best with the overall objectives?"
   - Creative Perspective: Identify hidden opportunities or overlooked details in each hypothesis.

   *2.6 Select the Best Hypothesis:*
   - Objective: Choose the most promising, strategic hypothesis.
   - Reflection: "Why does this hypothesis stand out? How does it uniquely address the issue?"
   - Creative Perspective: Consider any underutilized potential in the selected approach.

   *2.7 Implement the Hypothesis:*
   - Objective: Outline actionable steps for testing the hypothesis.
   - Reflection: "Is this plan practical? What resources or preparation are required?"
   - Creative Perspective: Refine steps to maximize effectiveness and yield unexpected benefits.

   *2.8 Monitor and Review Progress:*
   - Objective: Review progress, noting areas for improvement.
   - Reflection: "What’s working well? What could be improved?"
   - Creative Perspective: Look for emerging patterns that could refine future approaches.

   *2.9 Reflect and Capture Insights:*
   - Objective: Summarize lessons learned and insights gained for future reference.
   - Reflection: "What new understanding has emerged from this process?"
   - Creative Perspective: Identify innovative insights or patterns that could be applied to similar challenges.

3. *Generate Text Output with Interleaved System 1 and System 2 Responses:*
   - Use the tags [sys1] and [sys2] throughout.
   - Aim for a lengthier, detailed response. Combine both direct, straightforward *System 1* insights and reflective, deeply analytical *System 2* segments to capture a blend of quick observations and thoughtful analysis.

---

### *Example Input Text:*

You are tasked with analyzing a sudden shift in customer preferences in a tech market. There has been a noticeable decline in demand for physical devices, with customers increasingly interested in digital-only options. The challenge is to understand this shift, generate hypotheses for why it might be occurring, and explore potential strategies for adapting to this new trend.

---

### *Processed Output with System 1 and System 2 Thinking:*

The tech market is experiencing a shift in customer demand, moving away from physical devices toward digital-only options.

[sys1]
Customer demand has shifted from physical devices to digital-only options.
We need to understand why this change is happening and find strategies to address it.
Key factors may include cost, convenience, and technological trends.
[end sys1]

[sys2]
**2.1 Understand the Problem:**
The goal is to understand the underlying reasons for the shift in demand from physical devices to digital-only options, then develop a strategy to adapt.

*Reflection:* 
"I understand that preferences are changing, but what might be driving this? Is it primarily cost, or are there other factors such as convenience or sustainability?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Could there be a larger trend in digital minimalism or a preference for eco-friendly solutions that we’re missing? What unseen motivations might explain this shift?"

**2.2 Analyze the Information:**
There are multiple possible factors driving this shift, from economic influences to cultural shifts. It’s essential to isolate each factor and understand its impact.

*Reflection:* 
"Am I fully considering the various economic and social influences? Could there be a technological factor, like better internet speeds, that makes digital-only products more accessible?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Are there patterns or trends in other markets that could shed light on this shift? Could this be part of a larger trend toward virtual experiences?"

**2.3 Generate Hypotheses:**
1. Customers prefer digital options due to lower costs. (Confidence: 0.8, Creative: 0.4)
2. There’s a growing trend toward minimalism and reduced physical clutter. (Confidence: 0.7, Creative: 0.7)
3. Digital products offer greater flexibility and ease of use. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.6)
4. Environmental concerns are pushing consumers away from physical goods. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.8)
5. Advances in tech make digital-only options more functional. (Confidence: 0.8, Creative: 0.5)
6. Pandemic-era remote work increased demand for digital solutions. (Confidence: 0.7, Creative: 0.6)
7. Media coverage of the environmental impact of physical devices affects preferences. (Confidence: 0.5, Creative: 0.7)
8. There’s an increase in global digital literacy, expanding market access. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.6)
9. Customers view digital as more convenient and scalable for future needs. (Confidence: 0.7, Creative: 0.5)
10. Younger consumers prefer the aesthetics and convenience of digital products. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.6)

*Reflection:* 
"Have I considered all possible influences? Are there any surprising factors that could explain this shift?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Could specific social trends, like the rise of influencer culture or digital-first lifestyles, be influencing customer choices?"

**2.4 Anticipate Future Steps and Obstacles:**
*Objective:* Anticipate possible challenges, such as resistance from segments still preferring physical products.

*Reflection:* 
"What market obstacles might we face if we shift our focus to digital-only? Are there sub-segments that still prioritize physical products?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Could expanding digital options help us reach a more global audience? Are there emerging trends that we could leverage in our strategy?"

[end sys2]

[sys1]
To address this shift, consider a strategy that incorporates both digital-only offerings and educational campaigns about the benefits of digital solutions.
Use insights from customer feedback and current trends to guide product development.
Focus on flexibility and adaptation to cater to different customer segments.
[end sys1]


Keep Those Breasts Firm…Appropriate

You may have noticed that people working in Big Law are more pissed off than usual lately. And I can’t say that I blame them. The threat of associate layoffs still looms large. A six-figure salary barely keeps you off food stamps. White shoe firms are crawling with bed bugs. And herpes. But it looks like there’s a new kid on the block—a pair of kids, actually—gaining traction as the latest target for Big Law acrimony, at least if the state of affairs in and around my firm is any indication: Boobs. Or more to the point, how front and center they should be when it comes to dressing for work.

Now, arguments over appropriate sartorial choices for the workplace, breast-related or otherwise, are nothing new. Panels have been convened over them. Entire websites have been launched about them. Lawsuits have been waged because of them. But when the argument focuses on the degree of exposure—or lack thereof—of female breasts in the workplace, especially in a legal workplace, that’s when tempers really start to get out of control.

I can tell you’re already starting to get a little hot under the collar, aren’t you? OK, look, let’s all just calm down, take a deep breath, and take a tour of some photographic evidence.

First, let’s start with my law school friend, Ray—or more specifically, Ray’s Facebook page. Ray, a married, good-natured father of three, works in Big Law out in the Midwest and tends to limit his personal Facebook “updates” to a picture of his kids or an occasional comment about football. So, I admit that I was a little taken aback when Ray posted a link to Fox News’ recent interview with Ines Sainz, the curvaceous Mexican news anchor who has been embroiled in an NFL locker room sexual harassment scandal in the past couple of weeks. The link included a picture of Ines in a low-cut, revealing blouse and Ray had noted above it, “Maybe if you looked down at your chest you’d see why you’re in this situation. Dress professionally and people will treat you that way.” In other words, “You were asking for it, slut.”

Within a matter of hours, after a slew of vehement comments on his post—some agreeing with him, most disagreeing—and no doubt a phone call from his wife, Ray deleted the entire post and has been silent ever since. But even though his original comment is gone, its impact is still there. And his opinion is hardly unique. Like Ray—an intelligent, thoughtful Big Law attorney—men across America looked at images of the same gorgeous woman wearing a low-cut blouse to her job and agreed that her neckline was so wildly, hideously, horrifyingly inappropriate, that she basically deserved to be treated anything other than “professionally.”

Incidentally, the picture that started it all:

So, do you agree with Ray? Is Ines’s neckline so absurdly inappropriate for her job that it fully, necessarily precludes anyone from treating her “professionally”? And what if she was an attorney rather than a TV anchor? Would that make her neckline choice even more inappropriate—and to what end? To being harassed? Being fired? Bottom line: Where’s the line? At what point do you cross the (neck)line from “working woman” to “working girl”?

And does the analysis change if you’re a lawyer? Does it matter if you’re working at a firm? It’s not uncommon for defenders of business-formal law firm dress codes to cite the argument that if a client is paying a lawyer $1000 an hour, they want that person to “dress like a lawyer.” But if you’re a lawyer with breasts, especially large ones, what does “dressing like a lawyer” actually mean? Cover ’em up at all costs? Don nothing but high-button blouses and crew neck sweaters? And if you insist on clinging to this argument, let me ask you: When was the last time you had any face-to-face contact with your clients, regardless of what you were wearing? (I’m talking to you, $1000-an-hour Big Law types.) As any Big Law drone knows, there aren’t exactly roving hordes of clients storming the halls on any given day. So, if you’re sitting in a 10×10 office for 20 hours a day with little to no other human, much less client, contact, why should it matter how plunging your neckline is? Hell, why shouldn’t you sit in your office topless if you’re alone and it makes you feel comfortable? As long as you’re hitting your billables, who cares?

Well, quite a few people, apparently. I’d like to dismiss the obsession with workplace cleavage as the harmless infatuation of a few lonely, terrified, insecure men, but that couldn’t be further from reality. Remember our Facebook friend, Ray? Most of the she-was-asking-for-it comments were actually left by women, most of them lawyers. In other words, if only two things are crystal clear from Ray’s comment war and the latest breast-focused media circus that inspired it, it’s that everyone has an opinion about how your breasts should look at work—but no one has an actual answer.

So, what’s a female lawyer with breasts and a closet full of plunging necklines to do? Well, let’s take this to the next level and start figuring out which of our lady lawyer peers—or more specifically, which of their necklines—cross the line from seemly to scandalous. Yes, it’s time for a poll.

Below are a few (safe for work) images of actual or fictional lady lawyers (one of whom may or may not be writing this right now) in flagrante décolletage at work or at work-related events. Clearly, they all thought that they looked appropriate enough—but what do you think? Take the poll under each image to see how your opinion stacks up against your fellow cleavage police readers.

(And if anonymous decapitated boob shots leave you deeply unsatisfied, click on the link after the poll to find out who’s lurking above each of these necklines.)

Comments

42 Responses to “Keep Those Breasts Firm…Appropriate”

El on
September 29th, 2010 6:16 am

I can really dig womens tits, but not in the law office. A woman’s tits make me think of sex with them, usually in the bedroom or in the stairwells — but again, not as a professional in the law office.

I think a woman who leads or shows off her boobs at work is doing herself a disservice, as men will think of her just as a sex object, and not think of her for her mind.

There is nothing wrong with any dress that shows off boobs, but don’t wear those between 9-5 at work. Not unless you are looking for a guy to bone you.

If women want to really get ahead, they ought to lead with their brains, not their tits. After all, men lawyers don’t wear tight pants in the office showing off their peckers!

Elle on
September 29th, 2010 9:12 am

El: “Dig” “Tits” “Bone” “Peckers”?

What an entertaining raconteur you are!

In 1952.

Give me a break.

Greg on
September 29th, 2010 9:23 am

The problem for male lawyers is that we are not supposed to be staring at your breasts in the workplace. It creates a situation where we have to demonstrably look away from your chest while attempting to conduct business which can create an uncomfortable work place. In a way, it creates a hostile environment for anyone around you.

BL1Y – #5 is appropriate but a turtleneck (#2) isn’t?? a.k.a. the girl with the big boobs FULLY COVERED UP in #2 is less appropriate because she has big boobs? If the turtleneck was a sweatshirt, would that be better.

Sheesh. Youre damned if you cover em up, girls, and damned if you don’t.

mel on
September 29th, 2010 10:00 am

There’s a definite size bias, girls with big boobs are judged more harshly than girls with small boobs

MMW on
September 29th, 2010 10:44 am

As a woman with a large set, I’d just like to add that there are different levels of cleavage. For women with smaller breasts, it’s easier to get away with a deep-v neckline. If I wore the same shirt, it would look a bit slutacious. I think it comes down to how much visible boobage there is. Sometimes there is just no avoiding it, but that doesn’t mean that our smaller counterparts should be able to wear push up bras and plunging necklines. I’m a curvy DD+ woman, there is no way to hide the boobs without wearing two coats. But that’s not what most of the pictures in the polls above are showing.

Hana on
September 29th, 2010 10:48 am

Only picture #2 appears to be of a lawyer (or really an actress playing a lawyer) while at work. No. 5 was, I believe from the prior ATL post, a “before” picture in a spread. All the others are obviously taken in non-work situations, so obviously are not appropriate for work (although yes, a couple may be ok for a “work event” such as a dinner out). Just because one is a lawyer, doesn’t mean they have to cover up all the time, just while at work.

Elle: #2 is inappropriate because that type of top should not be worn with a suit, meaning it is not business attire; nothing to do with boob size.

Also, that’s not a turtleneck.

Anon on
September 29th, 2010 12:21 pm

I’m a woman lawyer with a big rack. And I don’t find it hard to find flattering fashionable clothing that shows NO cleavage. Frankly, it’s just not appropriate at work. I don’t want male lawyers distracted by my chest — it’s embarrassing and just distracting both to him and me. There’s no impossibility to this situation. Just wear a sweater or jacket with your more low cut items, or a camisole underneath when all else fails. The whole “woe is women” tone of this post is just stupid.

Guest on
September 29th, 2010 12:33 pm

Just a point of comparison: male work attire does pretty much completely cover us up. If you’re working in an office where the standard uniform for men is suits, then you’re unable to even accurately judge the outline of a man unless he is either obese or wearing a very close-fitted suit. Incidentally, in the latter circumstance, depending on the cut and a few other things, that man might be dressed inappropriately for the workplace.

Even in most business casual officers, if the average man is wearing trousers and a shirt–as opposed to a t-shirt or polo or something–men are still almost entirely covered in a way that hides all but their most pronounced features. If a man undoes the top two buttons instead of the top one button of their shirt, or if there is too much space between the top two buttons, then it is very likely that that man is dressing inappropriately for the workplace.

All of this is to say that yes, the expectations at work do seem to err rather severely on the side of concealing your body, but that expectation is not gendered. At the very least, it is not as strongly gendered as seems to be tacitly assumed in posts complaining about cleavage.

I know there is some sort of ethical debate on workplace attire going on, but when I see these nice-looking women looking hot, I just want to vote yet for all and allow anything and everything in the workplace.

Ladies, if God gave you something- use it! If people around you can’t handle it, then they probably can’t handle a lot of other things in their life- including their workload.

Wherever we go or whatever we see (malls, pedestrians, TV and the web, etc.) we see provocative images. Aren’t we used to this by now?

As Big Ern’ says on Kingpin: “Are you still on that? I said I was sorry and I meant it!”

As a large-breasted former big law associate who now blogs about how to dress if you’re large-breasted, I’m always thinking about this subject. The thing about conservative work environments like law firms is that you’re supposed to blend in, and big breasts don’t blend in.

It’s not only about cleavage. If you wear a button-front shirt, it has to be pinned; if you wear a knit, it shows the curve of your bosom in full detail. And it’s not only about outside clients. As an associate, the partner is your client, and I’ve felt pretty awkward in a knit Jones New York crew neck shell (before I realized that crew necks actually draw attention to the bust) meeting with a partner whose eyes wouldn’t rise above my shoulders.

I agree with MMW that there’s no way to hide the boobs, but just one boxy jacket goes a long way toward helping a large-breasted woman blend in. Unfortunately, it also goes a long way toward making her look super frumpy, and it’s too bad that it’s almost impossible to find a fitted, off-the-rack jacket that will actually button across a large chest.

It’s not impossible for a large-breasted woman to find clothes that let her blend in AND look sharp, but it’s a lot more work for her than it is for her A-, B- and C-cup colleagues. In order to wear #5 above, a large-breasted lawyer would have to choose between blatant gaping at the buttons or a larger size that would cause the neckline to plunge.

Ines Sainz is simply going for the look-at-me-I’m-sexy image that her television station wants her to portray. It’s easy for large-breasted women to go for this look, too, but that isn’t the image most law firms want their employees to portray.

Anonymouse on
September 29th, 2010 4:31 pm

Guest at 12:33,

It doesn’t work that way. If I just wore button down shirts loose enough to not make an issue of my boobs, and loose fitting trousers, I would be told I look slovenly. You’re right that men’s formal clothing covers everything, although when it comes to business casual, yep, I can tell if the guy in a polo shirt and khakhis has a good body, and yep, it is distracting. But a few caveats–women aren’t really supposed to cover up to the extent that men do, and when it comes to casual clothing, my boobs are pretty hard to hide. Either I can dress like an aging dowager, a camp counselor (crewneck t-shirts with logos, hey, I’m west coast), or a woman my age with some taste, which means (horrors) an inch or so of cleavage off and on. And even high necked shirts, even with patterns, make my boobs look pretty noticeable.

So I think your expectations are unreasonable, especially when applied to women over a B.

But, otoh, I don’t really have a problem with suits, except I feel like I cannot take off the jacket usually.

guest on
September 29th, 2010 4:32 pm

LT – Did you put together this post as an elaborate attempt to show us your boobs? Well played.

Guest on
September 29th, 2010 10:14 pm

Anon @ 4:31

I don’t mean to suggest that women need to cover up the same way that men do. You are absolutely right that a woman who wore clothing that concealing would look odd. I only meant to point out that traditional work environment is generally inhospitable to clothing that highlights any part of the human form. Incidentally, I’m also not saying that is a bad thing. It absolutely is distracting when a colleague is dressed inappropriately.

What I did want to suggest is that this is not a gendered norm. We do not accept the kind of clothing Legal Tease seems to think should be appropriate on either gender. In fact, as you point out, women are generally expected to wear less bulky and obscuring clothing.

As for the problem of looking professional, I do agree that it is more difficult for women to look professional than men. I think it is generally harder for women to dress than men. Our fashion norms evolve over periods of decades, where as women’s fashion changes much more quickly.

Note, however, that there’s really nothing employers can do about that. To the extent that this is a workplace problem, it is not one that is susceptible to solution by new workplace rules. Too little clothing will always be distracting. Too much clothing will always look weird. The fact that women have more trouble dressing for work than men has much less to do with a double standard or subtle misogyny by men and much more with the fact that women have much more variety available, and that variety has a much shorter shelf-life.

Vinnie on
September 30th, 2010 5:16 am

I say down with all this convention.

I am not reallly a teat man (I prefer a fresh va-jay-jay with a tight ass) , but let those boob lovers wanting real freedom for their jugs can just go out wearing a moo-moo and nothing more.

That way, they can be comfortable at work and at the same time men won’t have anything shapely to look at and be distracted by.

If those women want some people to see their headlights or any other body parts, the moo-moo can easily be removed.

I like your responses to this issue. It’s true that women’s fashions change more frequently than men’s, but actually, when you think about it, conservative work uniforms don’t change that often for either gender. Most of the things we see in women’s fashion magazines would never work in a law firm or investment bank.

Aline on
September 30th, 2010 1:36 pm

I would never show my breasts to any man unless we were engaged, so why would I do so at the office to men who I don’t even think of as spousal material?

Anonymouse on
September 30th, 2010 4:09 pm

Guest at 10:14,

I think you’re wrong that it is distracting. I think that it is more that people permit themselves to be distracted. At the point where you recognize that it isn’t possible for women to wear clothing as covering as that which men wear, I don’t understand how it is that you’re missing that it is equally impossible for women to wear clothing that doesn’t highlight body parts, particularly if their figure is on the curvy side.

It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If I wore clothing that truly wasn’t “distracting” to those who choose to be distracted (not the men in my office), I would be considered unprofessional. I was in the military, where the pants the women wore were about as unsexy as you can get, and men still complained about being “distracted.”

What employers should do is prevent employees from letting their own sexual desire impact the people who are the source of it. Because that is what is unprofessional. Sexualizing a colleague in the workplace. And most of the time, that is what the distraction consists of.

Another head splodey moment in your comment:

“The fact that women have more trouble dressing for work than men has much less to do with a double standard or subtle misogyny by men and much more with the fact that women have much more variety available, and that variety has a much shorter shelf-life.”

Why do you think this is? Why do you think women’s bodies are highlighted more than men’s? Why do you think women’s appearance and sexuality is focused on more than men’s? Do you really think this is gender neutral? Wake up! It absolutely is sexism–men can and are encouraged to wear clothing that does not play up their appearance/body shape/dimorphism, women must do the opposite. Now, if that switched every 10 years, yeah, you could say it was just fashion. But it doesn’t. Women are the ones who are expected to carefully police their appearance, and when they do not, they are punished far more severely than men. We don’t get to run around in the “Annie Hall’ look, okay?

Mary Kate on
September 30th, 2010 4:54 pm

You’re not being judged more harshly for having big boobs, they’re just a hell of a lot more distracting when they’re out. Even straight ladies find cavernous cleavage distracting. As the owner of a smaller set I guess I got lucky because it’s not too hard for me to cover them up, and suits fit me just fine. It’s never morally right to treat a woman badly for dressing inappropriately. It’s not an excuse to talk down to her, and it’s wrong to assume she’s bad at her job. I just think a woman who wants to be taken seriously and doesn’t want her male colleagues to think of her as a sex object would automatically dress modestly at work. Why give anyone the “you’re using your looks to get ahead” card to play? Why court the unnecessary drama? Why give people an excuse not to take you seriously? It shouldn’t be a matter of punishment or moral condemnation, just good sense and an effort to avoid problems.

Anonymous on
September 30th, 2010 4:56 pm

As a 35 year old female attorney with a 40 inch bust, I must say that it is kind of hard not to lead with your chest! Especially if you are remotely attractive and people look at you to begin with.

I do not like inviting attention to my body in general, and definitely not at work. My approach is to try to look lady-like and put together, avoid showing cleavage and not wear anything too tight, which is uncomfortable anyway if you are sitting at your desk 10-16 hours a day. I generally wear dresses (many of which are “suit” dresses) and dress shirts with pencil skirts.

Inappropriate sizing seems to be the biggest issue. I see it every morning at the gym, particularly one seemingly young and green girl whose skirts and dresses are so tight I have to bite my tongue not to tell her to go up a size for the office if she wants to be taken seriously.

It makes me think about my first job out of law school. For about a year I watched two female colleagues dress and behave inappropriately in the office. They were both a year or two ahead of me and married, and definitely fed off each other’s behavior at work. They wore short skirts, tight skirts and cleavage bearing tops. They flirted with the men in the office, occasionally lingering in a stare, whispering or touching an arm. It ultimately ended with both of them filing a sexual harassment complaint against a male supervisor after an out of town conference. All three of them got fired. The male supervisor was immediately escorted out of the building by security and the two of female colleagues were fired separately after like 6 months. This guy was definitely a gross meathead so who knows what really happened at the conference. I remember at one point he told me he wouldn’t be opposed to asking me to show some skin or wear a tight dress if he thought it would “help” with a client.

Anonymouse on
September 30th, 2010 5:40 pm

Mary Kate,

The point is, even covered, my boobs can be considered a distraction. But I happen to work with people who don’t suck, so an inch or two of cleavage, which usually happens when I’m wearing something like #5, doesn’t make them disrespect me.

Why is it the hetero men in my office are so much better with cleavage than the hetero men in the military were with me having boobs under a high-necked button down? All they ever saw me in was an (unflattering) uniform, usually with a jacket over (also unflattering) and yet I got written up on the bathroom wall as having an “awesome” rack. And I was only a 36B then. God help them if they saw my now 38C-D self.

My point is, in my experience, it isn’t dressing “modestly” that predicts how harassed I am, it is the quality and self-control of the people that I’m working with. My secondary point is, when you’re a 38C-D, a lot of times there is no winning for losing. Button downs and knits aren’t exactly unsexy on me either.

Anonymouse on
September 30th, 2010 5:48 pm

Oh, and to anonymous at 4:56–I don’t show cleavage in suits, the problem is business casual/casual, because my office is casual. I find it much easier to find appropriate suiting.

But, otoh, some people think knit shells are inappropriate, other shells are so lightweight I can’t ever really take my jacket off, and they still kind of cling. And in a suit that is tailored, not tightly but well (i.e., I could gain 10 lbs. and still button it) my figure is still pretty apparent. There are people who would say I was dressed provocatively (hah!) and I’m not–skirts at or at most 1 inch above the knee, made of non-stretchy fabric, single-breasted blazers with enough buttons that the part of my shell that covers my chest is mostly covered, too.

The problem is that some people, mainly men, focus on women with curvier figures, and consider anything a woman like that wears inappropriate–either because it is shapeless, or because the existence of her boobs is apparent.

Alice on
September 30th, 2010 8:56 pm

Absolutely hilarious. That girl has got some serious latina (high and round) cleavage going on, she enjoys having that be part of her image.

I struggled for years with showing inappropriate levels of boobage until I started wearing Carissa Rose. Hundreds of dollars later, no cleavage, and a closet full of great fitting button-downs and shells.

Anonymous on
October 1st, 2010 9:06 am

Don’t women ever get excited over a man’s “package”?

GayD on
October 1st, 2010 10:55 am

As a gay male lawyer with no real horse in this race, here’s my take: If your attire makes me question whether or not you’re wearing a bra (or alternatively, absolutely confirms that you are), it’s probably not appropriate for work. I apply the same standard to myself. If the pants let you know whether I’m boxers or briefs, I’ll save them for another venue. You can thank me later.

To use Ms. Sainz’s picture as an example, while I’m sure she’s wearing some complex and probably painful device to invisibly support (and if not, well, kudos to her), her blouse and styling are clearly designed to give the straight male Fox Sports viewer the impression that her bosoms are untethered and the hope that one of them might make a break for freedom at any moment.

To again apply the standard to me, if I were to wear a similar shirt (probably without the epaulettes) to work, with the top 4 buttons unbuttoned and no undershirt, it would indoubtably be inappropriate. Probably for slightly different reasons, though, despite recent successes at the gym.

Anonymouse on
October 1st, 2010 12:29 pm

GayD,

Yeah, no. You can always tell I’m wearing a bra. Boobs aren’t anti-gravity machines, I’m telling you. Also, there are very few shirts through which you cannot see the outline of a bra–not all of us can wear bras as low profile as boxers or briefs. Cuz they’re actually holding our stuff up. Even in the most demure shirt, if the fabric falls the right way, you’re going to see the outline of a cup or a strap. Where the cup ends and where my boob starts is not seamless. And it is different than your shirt example, because it is pretty much not okay for a woman to wear a shirt buttoned all the way up.

Anonymous on
October 2nd, 2010 12:23 pm

Men/Ladies:

Let’s face it. Women’s boobs are their sex organs. They are meant to be felt, squeezed, sucked on, and otherwise humped, both by men and by women, but not in a law office.

So why don’t we just acknowledge this and let women cover their boobs properly and fully, the way men do their balls in the office, so that the rest of us don’t have to think about them, either at home or at work?

Once they get home, they can bare them to the world, or their husbands, who can make them feel like ladies.

Bryce on
October 2nd, 2010 4:26 pm

I think women should NOT wear bras. This way we can determine if their breasts are firm BEFORE we spend money on taking them out to dinner and drinks.

What a let down it is to spend $100 or more on a woman before finding out if their boobs are firm or sag.

I think in these days of full disclosure, it should be fair for women to bear their breasts for men and, in the interest of sexual equality, for men to bare whatever body parts they need to see before either party spends time, energy, and/or money on the other party.

There are two different topics. One is appropriate workplace attire. One is respect for coworkers and their work abilities, not their sexual appearance.

I can vouch for the fact that the problem generally is not the womans. At my first firm, I had a lecture from one perv about how I was dressing too “dowdy” and could “show a little more personality” in my work wardrobe. Most of the female associates who advanced on his watch dressed more like models than attorneys. Another partner pulled me aside (a female partner) and pointed out that one of the more senior partners had commented along the lines that I needed to dress more conservatively. Most of my wardrobe was from Ralph Lauren / Brooks Brothers, and tailored to fit, so conservative WASP style on an average size, curvy build girl. Different guys got different things from it.

Here’s the thing. I have a female body. At work, out of respect for what we are there to do, which is work, I will dress like a professional (blazers, suits) and cover all relevant parts. That’s the extent of my responsibility. If a guy find my ass suggestive in my tailored, moderate fit, boring gray non-tight pants, that is HIS problem to control, not mine. If he thinks my bust line, under an opaque black turtleneck is a turn on, his problem. He’s a big boy, and if he wants to control entire cases, he can learn to control his own little body parts first. Men want to feel power, but then act like they don’t have it over themselves when real self-control is actually demanded of them. You a horny pervert? Not my problem.

By the same token, if a modestly dressed male coworker looks hot and has a cute tush, its my responsibility to focus and behave maturely and professionally. I don’t get to act like a she-douche and blame it on his choice of cotton pants instead of wool trousers. “Bob, when you dress like that, the drape of the fabric accents the curve of your buttock and it makes it hard for some the ladies here to concentrate on their work. You run the risk that we won’t be able to take you seriously or see you as a smart driven businessman when you dress like a Chippendale dancer. And I know you don’t want that. Plus, you should show a little respect for their husbands and boyfriends – don’t dress in ways that will distract them from the men who matter in their lives. Cover it up, Bob. Save the a$$-candy for Friday nights, mkay? I’ve found that Hugo Boss makes some great separates that a lot of the boys here really love – maybe that would work for you. I knew you’d understand, Bob. I’m glad we had this little talk.”

LawyerGirl on
October 20th, 2010 3:35 pm

Michelle hit the issue right on the head. Double standard, anyone?

Anonymous on October 2nd, 2010 12:23 pm – Women have a bunch of sex organs inside their pants. Those are even the primary ones! I’m sure the internet can teach you the rest of what your sex ed teachers sadly ignored.

Large breasts are desired, period. But, to tease and not deliver satisfaction is inconsistant. I have found that large breasted women are more skilled with men than normal women. Why? They get much more practice learning how to work a man. The large breasts are not the issue with me. Their significance is the super skill that goes with them. Large breasts are just attraction magnets nothing more than that.

Excellent commentary. As a woman in the professional world, it’s sad that our appearance is always on the table. I used to error on the ultra conservative side, but now have come to the point where I’m not willing to strip myself of femininity. No matter what, what we look like will always be a bigger issue for women than for men. Since that is the case, why shouldn’t we work every angle we have! Men need to work on being professional. If they are really distracted by fashionable and feminine clothing, well, maybe they need to start maturing past middle school.