DVD 7:  Revivification & How to Lead any 
Conversation to Get Your Desired Results 
Igor: 
Did you enjoy this morning’s session on, I guess we’ll call it hypnotic 
rapport and the unconscious signaling system. There are some fascinating 
things. Who here had a chance to play with this over lunch? Do you want 
to come up and talk? We might as well have everyone queue up on this 
side; otherwise, we’ll have weird things about who does what.   
Audience: I think this is the stuff I was doing anyway just working behind a bar. I was 
doing it anyway, but I never paid attention to the reactions. We went into a 
café, and there was a young lady sitting at a table. I gave her the 
eyebrows. I didn’t think anything about it, but then I sat down and 
something I never would have done before was pay attention to her after I 
had done that. Sure enough, she couldn’t stop staring at our table.  
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Igor: 
Right and by the way… 
Audience: I guess I wasn’t paying attention before. 
Igor: 
If you followed through, by the way, this is something very important. I 
remember when I first discovered the whole eyebrow flash. It was like, as I 
told you, I was going for the myth of the Master Hypnotist who can sit in a 
restaurant eating his noodles, and people walk up to him going, "You’re 
cool. I don’t know who you are, but your cool. I like you." Right?  
I couldn’t do it. I tried everything. I tried mimicking people’s posture, and I 
sat on the train until I got a crick in my neck. I tried rhythms, if someone’s 
got a movement, especially when they’re walking, that actually will still get 
a bit of attention, that’s quite good, But everything else, I just couldn’t do it. 
They were oblivious to me. 
Then I came across the whole eyebrow flashing thing. I was in a 
restaurant in London. It was Wagamama's, a Japanese noodles style 
restaurant. Big long benches and I’m sitting there eating my noodles. I did 
the eyebrow flash and someone like three feet across made eye contact, 
eyebrow flash and she eyebrow flashed back. I went, "Oh my God, this is 
working!" I ate my noodles and refused to look up.  
So if you’re going to do the eyebrow flash and you’re going to follow-up 
with this stuff, please do maintain contact to some degree. You don’t have 
to keep staring, but a friendly contact. That’s the follow-up. Remember, 
the eyebrow flash is just the invitation to treat. It’s the invitation for a 
greeting. The mirroring part – and that means you have to have some kind 
of non-verbal engagement. Maybe look at them and have a non-verbal 
conversation going on, if you like. That’s what continues this. This opens 
the door, but this keeps the door open. Does that make sense? 
If you think all you have to do is sit in the hotel lobby and go like this, did 
they see it? Tell me, are they looking? Then you’ve missed the object of 
the exercise.  
Great! What you’re saying just reminded me of that. Especially those of 
us, who are a little shyer, will be prone to do the thing, and that’s my 
technique, done, I’ll forget about it and hope that they come over and talk 
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to me. It doesn’t quite work that way. It doesn’t work that way for you 
either, does it?  
Normally, if you keep engaged after you’ve done the initial thing, that’s 
when they come over. By the way, you get great service like this in 
restaurants if you want to. It all comes down to again the purpose of the 
inner smile, is about intention. It is communicating an intention. The 
intention is I’m friendly, I will treat you well. You’re one of us, which means 
we’re going to protect you. You’re part of our group, and that gives you 
privileges. Does that make sense? 
You have to follow that up in terms of the intention. This is not a device to 
get people to like you and then go ha, ha, I’ve got it now. Now I’ll move 
onto something else. If you break the very intention, the very thing that got 
you there in the first place, well, you’re not carrying through. You’re not 
fulfilling on your unconscious promise. Does that make sense? Did you 
get the idea of what I’m talking about here?  
This is actually kind of important because really what you’re doing here is 
you’re making promises. And no one likes a person that breaks their 
promises, even if it’s an unconscious one. They come in with a certain 
expectation and now they’re being treated harshly. It’s kind of like what 
happened over here with Mike, is it? John. Close, sorry. What happened 
with John?  
You may have noticed I cheated a little bit as well because we had a 
friendly greeting first. The second time, I began a friendly greeting to make 
sure that he was in the program, and then ignored him. It’s actually worse 
than just ignoring him. I opened a promise, and then I canceled my 
promise. I didn’t fulfill my promise. Do you see how that works? That’s the 
other reason why I got a stronger reaction. I did that to cheat so I’d get a 
better reaction. Sorry.   
You have to fulfill on your promises, especially to the unconscious mind 
because that’s where, all the juju is. Does that make sense to you?  
Do you mind turning around sideways a little bit so we can actually get 
your handsome features? Wave hello to the camera over there, there you 
go. 
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Audience: So our server was just walking across the restaurant, she looked our way 
and I gave a little flash. She stopped dead in her tracks and made a B-line 
for the table.  
Igor: 
Right. 
Audience: Then the woman who was serving water, I gave her a flash and every time 
she came back to serve water, she lit up like a Christmas tree when she 
looked at me. It was fun. 
Igor: 
Its powerful stuff, isn’t it? It seems like a small throwaway thing, but 
honestly, if you do this and carry through, follow through on the implied 
promise, shall we say, this stuff will take you a long, long way. I wish I’d 
been sitting in a chair like you are right now and got it this easily because 
it took me a long, hard road to find this out.  
The irony is academia has know this probably in the ‘60s or so. Maybe 
even the ‘50s. Maybe even earlier, but those are the earliest references I 
found for it. It’s just that it’s buried away in some little archives. Someone 
thought, oh, this is interesting. Let’s move on.  
I’m going, WOW. When I found it, it was like I had found the secret Bible. 
The gold is all mine and I’m keeping it! Then you all had to go and take it 
off me.   
Audience: I made two observations. Dave and I went down to the Daily Grill 
downstairs. When I did the flash with the hostess, the first time she didn’t 
respond. She just had a poker face. The second time when I did the flash, 
all the sudden she lit up like a Christmas tree. That was the first 
observation. 
Igor: 
Can I just pause you there before you make the second one? 
Audience: Sure. 
Igor: 
What would your reading be of what happened there? She was what? 
Audience: Oblivious. 
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Igor: 
She was oblivious. Actually, I’d say the first time she was somewhere 
between oblivious and closed. So oblivious, she didn’t know how to react 
to it. It caught her by surprise so she’s a little bit closed. Maybe she’s just 
in that humdrum, boring work mode and life’s getting on top of her and all 
the rest of it. She’s oblivious, maybe a little bit closed because she’s not 
engaging so much. 
She got the signal, so it works back in the unconscious. The unconscious 
is going, "Oh, hang on a second. This person just told me I’m part of his 
tribe, so I better pay attention here."  
The second time he did it, he confirmed. Remember we talked about 
fulfilling promises? He fulfilled on his promise. He followed through on the 
promise he made to her unconscious saying, "You’re still one of us, even 
though you were a little bit poker faced earlier on. Its okay, I still love you." 
That’s when she lit up. Does that make sense? 
So this comes down to trust. Some people need a couple of tests before 
they’ll start trusting. It seems like you had a little test that went there 
before the trust came through. Or it burst through that shell that she’d built 
up around herself for whatever reason. Excellent! That’s a nice 
observation. 
Audience: The second time was when our waitress came, I flashed her but Dave had 
a poker face.  
Igor: 
That’s interesting. 
Audience: Exactly. So when she was serving us, when she looked at me, she was 
lighting up. When she looked at Dave, she had a poker face. 
Igor: 
Right.  
Audience: Dave noticed that too. It was like, wow. It was night and day. It was like 
when she looked at me, she was smiling and all that stuff. When she 
looked at Dave, she was poker faced. 
Igor: 
It’s intense stuff. Do you see how powerful this stuff is? This is really the 
juice. I mean everyone – I’ve had hundreds of people talking about how do 
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you build rapport and what’s the secret technique? What do you say, and 
what stories do you tell? It’s like, I flash the eyebrows.  
It seems ridiculously simple, but hopefully you understand that the 
behavior may be simple, but the context you’re embedded in is not. The 
intention has to still be there. The emotion that drives it still needs to be 
there. 
Once you get it right, once you get it natural, it’s pretty damned dramatic. 
You can’t miss it once you start looking for this. Did anyone else notice 
that sort of thing? It’s pretty obvious once it starts happening, right? So 
thank you. That’s an excellent observation.  
Audience: I think it’s terrific that he had the persistence to do it a second time when 
not being reciprocated on the first.  
Igor: 
Absolutely. I agree.  
Audience: I think there’s always a tendency to not want to try again because they 
didn’t reciprocate. 
Igor: 
Because then your own feelings are hurt. It’s like you better like me or 
screw you buddy. I’ll burn your house down.   
Audience: Exactly. 
Igor: 
I haven’t, yet. That’s why I have no house.   
Audience: I went to Subway for lunch and I made eye contact with the person that 
would prepare the sandwich. I flashed the eyebrow because I think I saw 
her do it first, or tried to do it in the way that was similar to how she did. I 
didn’t ask for it, but I think she gave me four extra slices of Swiss cheese.  
Igor: 
So cheese lovers amongst you… the eyebrow cheese flash. Thank you.  
Audience: Real quick, yes. So I went up to the front desk to ask a few questions 
about where some things are located in the area here, like banks and 
Internet and all that kind of thing. They saw my badge and the woman 
says, "Hey, are you with the hypnosis folks?" I said, "Yeah." "Oh, can I try 
it?" I was like, "Sure."  
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Igor: 
Let me pause, you there one second. Was anyone else here already a 
hypnotist before they came today? When people first meet you, how often 
do you normally get asked or get people to volunteer and to say, "Can you 
hypnotize me when they first meet you, as a stranger." It is very rare.  
What you just experienced is something that a lot of people doing street 
hypnosis, that’s their biggest fear. It’s like, what if they say no? Because a 
lot of people do say no, what did I do wrong? How can I get past this? 
How can I make them want to do it?  
All right, sure I’ll do hypnosis with you. Why? Again, do you see what it 
means? You’re one of us, or one of them. As soon as she was one of us, 
well, then it must be interesting to do hypnosis. Hypnosis is an interesting 
field, but you’ve taken care of trust and comfort, the whole background to 
rapport, in one fell swoop. 
Audience: These people work here. They see that there are 100 people attending, so 
they must be figuring that there’s got to be something to this.  
Igor: 
Right. Which of these other 100 people did they approach? The one that 
flashed the eyebrows. Seriously, they know you’re a hypnotist. Did anyone 
come up to you and say, "Oh, I hear you’re a hypnotist and you’re in that 
whole convention thing. Can you hypnotize me, please?"  
Audience: Actually, it’s interesting. There were two people at the desk. The first one 
is the one that got talking to me. I was definitely flashing eyebrows back 
and forth with her. She was telling me about how a friend of hers quit 
smoking through hypnosis. The person next to her is the one that said to 
me, can you hypnotize me? She was not the one that I had any eyebrow 
interaction with. She just saw the two of us.  
Igor: 
Because you just created a sort of a group.   
Audience: Exactly. 
Igor: 
Remember what we talked about yesterday in terms of authority? When 
you have the leader of the group on your side, the other people in the 
group automatically will adopt you as well, which is precisely what 
happened.  
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Audience: That’s what happened. So then I said, "Why don’t you come out from 
behind and we’ll do this." I’m thinking to myself, "Okay, I’ve never done an 
instant induction with a stranger. Even if I did that with you and I never met 
you before, we were here in this context. This context doesn’t apply out 
there." 
Igor: 
So you think. 
Audience: Sure enough it went easily. I actually had her look in my eyes and I put my 
hands on her shoulders. I started to tell her to breathe more easily and all 
this. Then I reached behind her head. I asked her for permission actually. I 
put my hands on her shoulders. You don’t even have to ask for the 
permission to put the hand on the head.  
Once they’ve given okay to some kind of physical contact, virtually 
anything within reason is within reason. So she went straight onto my 
shoulder, and I started taking her to a nice place.  
Igor: 
Let me just emphasize something here. A complete stranger put their 
head on his chest like this and closed her eyes in public. That is not 
normal social behavior. Do you see the – it’s very difficult for me to really 
emphasize just how dramatic what it is we did this morning really is.  
Hopefully, these stories are bringing some of this to light because if you 
haven’t done it the hard road, which I have, you won’t necessarily know 
just how significant and how much easier this makes your life.   
Audience: Exactly. I don’t know about the effect of words, but for whatever it’s worth, 
I’m telling her the deeper you go, the more relaxed you feel; the more 
relaxed you feel, the deeper you go. I said, "I want you to go to a place 
where everything was right and everybody was getting along, and you felt 
perfect and everything was just going swimmingly and blah- blah- blah." 
Then when she came out and I asked her, "Where was that place." She 
said the beach. I never mentioned the beach. I never asked her to be that 
specific. I think I used swimmingly and that’s what triggered it, for 
whatever that’s worth.  
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Igor: 
Do you see going back to reference experiences like, words through 
association. They have all these associations attached. When he said 
swimmingly, of course it opens that category, which includes beach and 
that becomes a natural reference point to cross-reference into. Do you see 
how now when you know these little principles – and they are 
straightforward to understand – suddenly, it opens up your whole capacity 
of indirect hypnosis, doesn’t it?  
It’s your ability to talk about one thing, but really something completely 
different is happening at the same time. Doesn’t that open it up to you all? 
Good job. You just did a whole little conversational covert hypnosis bit 
within regular hypnosis, and they never even knew it. Good job. Thank 
you. Give him a round of applause. 
Do you want to turn sideways a little bit so that the camera can see you as 
well? 
Audience: Sure, I can turn sideways. We had a number of things to do, so I didn’t 
actually do a lot of specific interaction, but it was very interesting. I don’t 
generally like security people and police officers. I just don’t like them 
generally. They’re okay, but they have this authority thing that I don’t care 
for. I did it to several of those security officers, and I got more smiles 
coming back at me from the security officers and eyebrows raising back. I 
thought, ooh, that’s cool. 
The reason I’m up is because I did it to somebody that didn’t do it back to 
me. We were rushing up here. We were running late. We were in the 
elevator, and he was just sitting back. I didn’t do it back to him a second 
time. I guess I was the one that didn’t do it back, but he just kept looking at 
me out of his eyes, which was kind of interesting. 
Igor: 
Notice, you got someone who was slightly closed off. You might have just 
needed more of a surprise to open that person up. But the eyebrow flash 
itself might be enough of a surprise. What you’re describing, again, is 
probably similar to what happened over here with, was it Mickey who did it 
the second go? I can’t remember.  
Anyway, whoever did the double eyebrow flash thing and he’s sitting there 
going, "Do I know him? I don’t know what to do now. I feeling socially 
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awkward now because maybe I know this person and I’ve blanked him, 
which is not allowed."  
All these things are going through his mind and I don’t know this for a fact – who knows – but I suspect if you had done it again or given another 
friendly gesture, he might have lit up and gone, "Wow, I guess this guy’s 
really cool. I like him."  Again, there are no guarantees because if he’s 
really stuck in his closed loop, it’s his personal issue and you may need 
more to break through that ice. To be fair, people who are that closed are 
relatively rare in the world.  
So are you enjoying this? Was this a useful start to the day? Let’s see if 
you can take all this stuff further and go to a slightly different area. This is 
going back to what we talked about over here with swimming and so on. 
As hypnotists, we’re working with experiences. Those are our building 
blocks, right? You build the right sets of experiences, emotions, behaviors 
and all the rest of it flow out of that.  
Where do people store their experiences? In their unconscious in the form 
of memories. A memory really is a, shall we say, a conglomeration of 
experiences stuck together into a ball saying, that was a specific event 
and there were sights there and sounds, feelings, tastes, smells even. 
They’re all bunched together into this “memory.”  
When it comes to memory, there are three kinds of memories we can work 
with hypnotically. In conversational hypnosis – and this is different from 
hypnotherapy – we’re only interested in two of them primarily.  
♦ The first type of memory is called hyper-amnesia.  
Hyper-amnesia is, basically, recalling something very vividly. It’s increased 
memory recall. Those of you interested in forensic hypnosis and things 
like that well, hyper-amnesia is where all of that occurs.  
♦ The second level is called the revivification.  
The difference between hyper-amnesia and a revivification is hyper
amnesia is increased recalled, but there won’t necessarily be that much 
affect. In other words, they won’t be feeling that much; they’ll just be very 
clear that it happened.  
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Let me give an example, if I may. Can anyone here recall something that 
happened to them when they were younger, maybe in their childhood or in 
their early adulthood that was, at the time, pretty traumatic, pretty intense? 
When you think about it now, you know it occurred but it doesn’t really 
bother you? You might even laugh at how silly the whole thing is now. 
Does anyone have something like that in mind?  
Think about it. You can probably quite clearly recall the event, the details 
of it. Maybe the people involved, maybe even to the point where you’re 
pretty clear about who said what to whom or who did what to whom, but 
you’re missing the emotions of it.  
So you may have a clear memory, you may have hyper-amnesia in terms 
of the memory is very clear and the information is very clear, but the 
emotions have detached from it so you’re not re-experiencing the moment. 
You’re not reliving the moment. Does that make sense? 
In revivification, on the other hand, you’re actually reliving the moment. 
You’re being put back inside it. Who here enjoyed the inner smile? If you 
enjoyed the inner smile it’s because it wasn’t hyper-amnesia. You weren’t 
just recalling it factually. You were reliving it at some level. You were 
having the experience again. If you imagined your neurology being like 
lights on a Christmas tree, more lights were flashing up now. Make sense? 
♦ The final one is called the regression.  
To take out analogy to an absurd degree, in a regression you become the 
Christmas tree. In the regression, you go back to that age and you have 
no recollection of the future. In other words, you’re having that experience 
as if for the very first time, which brings up some very interesting 
paradoxes.  
Just a quick story– Everyone here know who Milton Erickson was, a great 
psychiatrist and doctor. He brought the field of hypnosis forward by 
immense degrees. There’s a great story of him doing one of his 
workshops with psychiatrists.  
This is in the ‘60s and ‘70s, and he has all these big-bearded psychiatrists 
crawling around on the floor being 5-year-old children because that’s part 
of his therapy for whatever reason. He decides to amuse himself so he’s 
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talking to one of the guys with a big bushy beard. He talks to him and he’s 
like, "What’s your name?"  
"Johnny."  
"How old are you, Johnny?" 
"Five."  
He goes, "Johnny, what’s that on your upper lip?" He’s got a big 
mustache, right?  
Johnny goes, "Its hair."  
He goes, "How did it get there? What is that? I mean do 5-year-old boys 
normally have hair on their lip?"  
"No."  
"So how did you get that hair on your upper lip?"  
Little Johnny thinks and he thinks, and suddenly it dawns on him and he 
goes, "I know! It’s from when I was older."  
In a regression, you don’t just have the experience, you actually have the 
full mental, shall we say, processing capabilities of a 5-year-old, a 10-year 
old, a 20-year old or wherever you were at that time in life. Does that 
make sense? 
If we were talking therapeutically speaking, we’re interested in these two: 
vivification and regression. That’s where we can create very powerful 
changes in people. In terms of conversational hypnosis, we’re interested 
in hyper-amnesia and revivification. We do not want regressions because 
really it’s too intense for a conversational covert environment. It’s pretty 
obvious when it happens.  
Did anyone ever see someone throw a temper tantrum? Don’t they look 
like a 5-year-old when that happens? Guess when they learned it? That’s 
an example of a partial regression. Part of their psyche, shall we say, 
regresses to five years old, and they behave that way. They feel that way. 
Then if you have that intellect stuff on top of it, and the intellect can’t 
explain how they’re feeling. They can’t explain their behavior, which is why 
you’ve got this weird disconnect. Does that make sense? That’s just a little 
aside. 
In terms of what we’re doing, in terms of conversational hypnosis, we’re 
interested in this. Now this is all a sliding scale. It’s not to say the 
phenomena in front of me, right now is a regression. It’s not a revivification 
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because his eyebrow is arched by 30 degrees to the left. It’s a sliding 
scale.  
Start with regular memories. Then they become very clear memories, 
hyper-amnesia. Those memories become so clear that you start to feel 
them. That’s a revivification. Then they become so real as you feel them, 
that it sucks you into it and all your experience, is that which is a 
regression? So it’s a sliding scale. A mild regression can look like an 
intense revivification, and so on. Do you see where I’m going with this? 
So we’re interested in hyper-amnesia and revivification, depending on the 
kinds of things we want to do. Whether we want to build experiences up, 
or if we’re going to have all the intellectual start-up things engage. hyper
amnesia will be more intellectual because they can appreciate and 
evaluate the experience. Revivification will be a more emotional thing, 
because they can feel and engage or take the resources from that time. 
Make sense? 
What I’d like you to do is get together with a partner, and I want you to talk 
to them about a pleasant trance experience that they’ve had recently. 
You’ve been here for a day and a half now. You should have had at least 
one such event. Everyone here has had at least one trance-like 
experience that was pleasant.   
I’d like you to talk to your partner about that. Now as the hypnotist, whilst 
you’re talking about this, what I want you to do is take note of a couple of 
things. Take note of their body language. Head tilt, shoulders and so on, 
especially if it makes a dramatic shift. They might eyebrow flash in the 
middle of something they’re saying. They might suddenly go from talking 
about it to leaning forwards. Maybe their movements become more 
animated. Do you see where I’m going with this?  
So you’re looking for a sudden shift within that and their tonality. They 
might stress a certain word. They might lean on a certain word. They 
might emphasize something. When that occurs, I’d like you to listen for the 
word or the phrase they were using at that point in time.  
For example, I might talk about walking on the beach in Thailand. The sun 
was just so warm. What was it? So warm. By the way, it’s just because I 
recalled something there. When I recalled the actual sensation of walking 
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down that beach, my hands naturally just wanted to open up. It’s just a 
physical expression, and my tonality shifted naturally.  
That’s called a personal trance word or at least I call them personal trance 
words. They are little handles that people have screwed onto their 
experiences, which connect straight into that. Make sense? 
So I’d like you to collect their personal trance words and, if you can, the 
mannerisms that goes with them, too. That’s it for now. Stick with that 
partner, then we’ll come back and we’ll talk a little bit about that. Then 
we’ll throw in another round. Does that make sense to you? This whole 
thing should only take about, I don’t know, a couple of minutes each. So if 
I give you three or four minutes in total for both sides to do it, it should be 
plenty.  
You’re not interested in a whole dialogue about the whole thing. Just get a 
little bit of a description. The question you want to answer in your own 
mind is, can you mentally put yourself in the place they were at? Can you 
put yourself on my beach in Thailand right now? The answer you’re 
looking for is really actually no. All you know is one element of it. That it 
was warm.  
What do I mean by warm? Is it hot like an oven? Are we talking about a 
little bit warmer than in here, which is chilly? What do I mean by warm? Do 
you know the color of the sand? What kind of surf was there? Was the tide 
in or was the tide out? Were there people there, or was I on my own? You 
don’t know any of these details. So you need to find those out so you can 
create a mental picture of what I was experiencing. Does that make sense 
to you? 
In the process of doing so, just listen out for the personal trance words 
and see what comes out. Easy, off you go.  
So you’ve both had a chance to have a chat about the other person’s 
trance experience. Did you spot some personal trance words and 
mannerisms? Yes? I apologize. I thought you were asking a question 
there. Good. Actually, we’ll do that. We’ll go with you. Put your hand up if 
you spotted personal trance words and the themes and so on. Only half of 
you did? Go on now let me see those hands. Probably a lot of shy ones 
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are going, "I didn’t put deodorant on today. Don’t make me put my hand 
up." Good.  
So now that we have that, what are we going to do with this? The first 
thing to realize is that was a relatively normal conversation, wasn’t it? You 
could spot the same kind of things going on in an average, everyday 
conversation. If someone comes back from a holiday and you go, "Oh my 
God, how was it? Tell me about it."  
This is important to note because this is where we can start creating 
revivifications or hyper-amnesia conversationally, which is kind of the point 
of this whole training seminar.  
What I want you to do now is, let’s see, what’s the best of way of doing 
this? Okay, what we’re going to do is, you’re going to start assuming you 
haven’t seen each other for a while. It’s the same partner that you just 
worked with. I just want you to make the assumption so you can practice 
your whole hypnotic rapport technique. Make sense?  
We’ll start – this is not Human Resources – kidding. You’ll start with your 
inner smile. You’ll eyebrow flash. You’ll watch – very important – you’ll 
watch what happens right after the eyebrow flash, how they respond. Did 
they have a smile? Did they tilt their head? Did they do something with 
their hands?  
You’ll mirror that back as you’re sitting down and maybe shaking their 
hand as part of greeting. Make sense? So this is your starting point. 
Step two is you’re going to repeat essentially the same conversation you 
just had. Let’s call this exploring. We’re going to get some details from 
them. Really, you’re going to repeat what you just did, but we’re going to 
do it more purposefully so you can, shall we say, role play a regular kind 
of meeting. This time putting in all the things you want to be putting into 
practice. Does that make sense? 
All right, this is going to be fun. Step three I’m going to call H+. They are 
related, but they are different. Remember, it’s the same creature; different 
moods. All I want you to do – and in order for this to work, let me just 
emphasize, this is just a training exercise. This is not anything that you’ll 
necessarily be doing in real life in the real world.  
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You’ll see why in a moment. It sounds like you’re a little bit strange if you 
try to do it in the real world. It could work, but it’s also got a good likelihood 
of just embarrassing you. So I’m just warning you right now.  
Once you’ve identified their personal trance word and some mannerisms 
that go with that, what I want you to do is mentally make a switch inside 
yourself. Go into your, what I would call H+. Intend to hypnotize them. 
Really want them to experience how good trance feels. Start feeling a little 
of that yourself.  
Do you remember yesterday when you did the, 'That’s right' exercise? 
Who recalls that one? That’s all you’re going to do right now. Remember 
that feeling you had yesterday and once you’ve had a chat with them 
about their trance experience and once you’ve got the information you 
want, switch yourself. Remember how you felt yesterday doing 'That’s 
right'. All you’re going to do is look at your partner and go,"That’s right, 
that’s right, there you go, that’s right, there you go, very good, that’s 
good."  
Is that easy? This is just the warm-up to doing a proper vivification, which 
will also work in the real world, in the real streets. For now I just want this 
as a warm-up to get you ready so you’re performing the vivification easily. 
And it’s going to be a lot easier for you this way. Does that make sense to 
everyone in terms of the exercise? You had a question? 
Audience:   
Igor: 
♦ Do you both tell a story and then do this afterward, or is it one 
way? 
All of this is going to happen with just one person. Let’s assume that Tim 
and I are working on this exercise. Is that okay with you, Tim? Do you 
want to come up just so we can show them a little bit of what I mean? 
So Tim comes up. I’m seeing Tim. How’s it going? Notice a little eyebrow 
flash and all the rest of it. Tim is sitting down. So tell me, "Have you had a 
trance lately?" The answer you’re looking for, of course, is yes. "Tell me a 
little bit about that."  
So now I’m asking him about the experience, right? Once I’ve had this 
conversation – he’s not asking me anything. I’m just talking to him and I’m 
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being fascinated by that. Once I’ve talked to him about his experience, 
what I’m going to do is go, "That was interesting. Thank you. That’s right, 
that’s right, that’s right, that’s it, that’s right, all the way, all the way there 
you go that’s good."  
That’s it. Once he’s finished his little cycle – we’ll give him a few minutes 
to enjoy that. Hello. Welcome back. Once he’s done that, I want you to 
pretend that you haven’t met yet, so you’ll both turn your backs to each 
other a little bit to break the social contact. Then it will be his turn as the 
hypnotist. So as soon as he sees you, it’s his turn to do the, there you go, 
eyebrow flash and all the rest of it. Now he directs me through the same 
experience. Does that make sense? 
So it will be entirely one-sided, you’ll break contact, go back into the same 
pair only this time the other person will be the hypnotist. Is that clear? 
Does that make more sense? All right. Thank you. Give him a round of 
applause. All right, everyone, off you go.  
Feel free to come up here. I’ll turn these things on. What kind of things did 
you all notice during that exercise? What happened? Anyone? Do you 
want to come up? 
Audience: One of the things that I noticed and I kind of have a question about, is how 
easily that just - slips into. My question is: 
♦ Is the trance that we’re in, in the trance of the class, make that 
more available? 
Igor: 
Yes. 
Audience: Okay. 
Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
Let me just put a caveat on that. There are two reasons for that, just so 
you get the whole picture. The first reason is because you all have been in 
and out of trances a lot today. Actually in the last two days. 
♦ Which is similar to like, if you’ve got somebody and you’re 
bringing them in and out? 
Exactly. It is a fractionation.  
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The other thing is you have a social context here that allows for people to 
slip into more overt trances more easily. Make sense? The corollary to 
that though is – and this is what we’re developing here is – you’re creating 
the kind of context where you will absolutely get very profound 
conversational trances. They may not be like this, but people will be like 
this.  
Audience: In both cases actually, they were like that.  
Igor: 
Of course. Here they will be because, as I said, this context allows for it. A 
normal conversation doesn’t, so it’s relatively rare that will happen. We’re 
just taking each of the pieces and we’re polishing them, so you’re aware of 
how each piece feels in an ideal situation.  
Then when we put it together in a more live situation, little bits will go 
wrong here and there, but overall, the tendency will still be towards trance 
and have the same impact. Does that make sense? 
Audience: It does. Then the other thing that I noticed was the inner smile. To share 
from that place with the person you’re with, it’s like you just fall in love with 
them. 
Igor: 
Right. I agree. Actually that phrase falling in love with them, is actually 
very close to the term. In the old school, hypnotic rapport – what was it 
they used to call it? It was like infatuation or a seductive term. I can’t 
remember what the actual term was, but it’s a very intimate sort of feeling.  
Hence, I strongly recommend that if you’re going to take it – I mean we’re 
taking right now, the whole thing to the extreme. In normal day-to-day 
interactions, you’ll put a little bit of that charm on it and a little bit of that 
glamour, but not too much because it’s overwhelming for a lot of people.  
If you do too much of it, some people just will feel uncomfortable because 
it just seems like this is weird. Every time I go there, it’s like this crazy 
world I go into, and they can’t handle it yet. Over time, you may be able to 
fractionate them into that experience. But again, you want to see how 
much the individual, in the real world, in that context can handle before 
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you up the ante a little bit. That’s just part of your responsibility as, I 
guess, an ethical human being.  
You don’t push people too hard because if you do, by the way, then you’ll 
go down the other road where you’ll have no friends because they’ll be 
afraid to hang out with you. It actually happens. 
Erickson – as much as I admire the guy – towards the ends of his days 
had very few friends. People were terrified of going to dinner with him 
because they’d find themselves passing the salt and pouring him some 
water without him ever asking for anything. He was using these non-verbal 
influencing skills. To him it was just fun, like a prank, but he was overdoing 
it and they were frightened by it.  
This is the other side of what you’re learning to do. You must understand 
that whilst it might seem tempting right now to make everyone in the world 
love you and you’re the best thing ever and so on, sometimes the best 
thing you can do is not. Does that make sense? It’s a balancing act.  
Sometimes you turn it on a little bit and that’s it. Sometimes you turn it on 
a little bit more. Sometimes you don’t do it at all. It’s a real balancing act, 
depending on who you are who you’re with, what the context is, your 
relative needs and so on. Make sense? 
Audience: It does. Then to be on the receiving end of that, I mean there was a real 
gentle sweetness and there was a little bit of – even in trance – a 
consciousness, like a choice point of how much permission am I going to 
give here. 
Igor: 
Right. That choice point is always there. Some people have learned to 
ignore it for whatever reasons, but it’s really inside everyone’s mind. 
Hence, you want to always treat your people with respect. You need 
integrity because when you violate integrity, at some point that choice 
point will go against you. It will automatically switch against you.  
You might get away with it once or twice, but after a while, as with 
Erickson for example, the choice point switched against him. The defense 
mechanisms people ended up having was, I’m just not going to hang out 
with him anymore. Does that make sense? Does that help? 
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Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
Thank you.  
Audience: Well, I was working with my exercise partner and I described my 
experience to him. He smiled and looked in my eyes and all the sudden, 
his eyes seemed very wide to me. Fascinating! I just felt myself going into 
a trance.  
My eyes closed and as I exhaled, he said, "That’s right." As he did that, I 
went into this expansive space that was all pink and blue lights. Diffuse 
light, not glaring, but very pleasant, it felt like a huge space and 
momentarily all the voices in the room went away.  
Igor: 
Welcome to hypno-land. What have we got here? We’ve got a visual 
hallucination and we’ve got a negative auditory hallucination, and this is 
just a normal conversation. It’s just part of normal everyday interactions, 
folks. It happens.  
It’s just that people don’t ascribe the same meaning to them when it 
happens normally. Thank you. That’s an awesome experience to have 
had, isn’t it? By the way, who here wants to know how to be able to 
achieve that within just a regular induction by saying actually very little? 
Anyone? On day four or five, I believe we’ll be coming onto that. So you 
better pay attention.  
Audience: Natalie had a physical experience in that she experienced warm energy 
running down both of her arms. I hadn’t heard that yet. I mean she felt it in 
my presence again just relating it. So I thought that was extremely 
interesting. 
Igor: 
Oh, the things that I found particularly interesting – apart from the little 
boogie I’m about to make for the phone – is the fact that you have now 
become associated to that experience enough that just by telling you 
about it, the experience happens again.  
Isn’t that interesting how that works? Because now he’s part of that whole 
conglomeration, so by talking about it, it reengages the same pattern, the 
same mechanism and, again, out comes that sort of energy type feeling. 
Awesome! Thank you. 
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Audience: I had a new experience with this one too, or maybe I’m just first aware of 
it. Mine involved going back to a time when I was riding horses. I was 
aware of the noise, but soon the noise was taken up by the sound of 
horses hooves and the horses huffing and puffing as we’re chanting.  
Igor: 
So it switched a meaning in your mind and became something else. 
Audience: That’s the first time I’ve noticed something like that. 
Igor: 
Do you all see how flexible the mind is? Everything you think is real, I’m 
sorry to tell you all, it’s like the blue pill from The Matrix. Everything you 
think is real is not. It is a hallucination generated by your brain. If for no 
other reason, think about it.  
Your senses – sight, sound, touch and so on – are converted to 
electrochemical signals to come up in through your nervous system and 
so on. Its electricity or chemistry depending on which part of the spiral you 
look at.  
Then it hits your brain and your brain has to make meaning out of all of 
this and give you something, an experience, that allows you to navigate 
through the world and survive and reproduce and do whatever people do. 
Make sense? But it isn’t real. If ever you’ve seen an optical illusion, it’s 
something that tricks your brain to see something that’s not there, that’s 
one of the reasons we can't quite figure it out. We know it’s not real, and 
yet somehow it still works. Does that kind of make sense? 
Hypnosis allows you to create different realities. Now we’re getting into 
some really kind of tricky stuff here because it really is. It allows you to do 
the kind of things that other people go to jail for and not even risk that 
because it’s all produced inside the brain anyway. Does that make sense? 
This also means you have a great responsibility. You don’t just mess 
around with people’s realities just for the hell of it. You’re doing it in an 
ethical way. In other words, in a way that is a genuine force for good for 
those individuals, in a way that frees them up to be a better human being, 
to achieve more things and so on.  
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If along the way you happen to get something of what you want as well, 
it’s a win-win as far as I’m concerned. Everyone gets something positive. 
That’s where your integrity and your ethics are important, because you’re 
walking around in someone else’s mind and there’s a responsibility that 
comes with that. Does that make sense? Do you like this so far? Who 
here realizes that you’re not even at the end of Day 2 yet? Isn’t that 
something?  
Audience: My question is – my ultimate goal is the same thing that you were just 
talking about H+ essentially. What if freeing them up and giving them more 
choice actually destroys whatever their secondary gain was for having 
been limited?  
Igor: 
Then that’s something you need to give them a choice for. You can give 
the unconscious mind a choice before that happens. It’s like saying should 
people know what happened to them in their past? Well, that’s really up to 
them because some things they can’t handle yet. If you start freaking them 
out and causing them to have reactions, that’s not very healthy for them. 
If they ask for it and they know how to get through it, I see no problem with 
that. They’ve asked for that, they’re trying, they just don’t know their way 
around it. That’s a very different scenario to people just happily going on 
with their lives and then suddenly, life explodes in their face. And they go, 
I don’t think I want to live in this world. They might not emotionally be able 
to cope with that yet.  
You can, of course, massage things along a little bit by preparing 
someone to be ready for a bigger world, so to speak. But then it still takes 
them to a choice point where they decide - I now feel safe inside myself 
safe enough that when I see or feel or experience the limits of the world 
I’ve built around myself, that I feel constrained by it and I wish to get 
beyond it.  
You can’t push them outside of those boundaries because then you are, in 
my opinion, doing quite a bit of violating in terms of their own mental 
experience.  
Audience: Agreed, two things. Number one is you said they make a choice. 
Sometimes when I’m watching people’s body language, often times they’ll 
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go no, which means their unconscious mind is saying yes. I’m willing to 
make a choice, but the conscious part of me is not willing to make that 
same choice. 
Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
You’ll get to realize this as well. When you say to people, "Are you willing 
to change?" They’ll go, "Of course." You’ll get both. Again, don’t stick with 
head nods and head shakes as an expressed meaning. You need a little 
bit of testing around those areas as well. Take everything as an indication, 
and then test it a little bit.  
Yes. You absolutely, get that and usually I’ll go with the unconscious 
response because it’s the one that has kept them safe, their entire life and 
will continue to do so. 
♦ And you’re going to show us how to do the testing and all the 
rest of that sort of slow movement into those areas? 
Yes. That’s where I need you all to keep your eyes open in terms of their 
calibration and stuff like that. When there’s a dramatic shift, either they’ll 
increase tension or decrease tension, or stress response or something like 
that. It’s not all about tension. Sometimes it’s about stillness and so on, 
but then again, stillness is not the only thing. 
For example, when people go into trance, they tend to have less 
movement. Now do I look particularly stressed right now? Hopefully, the 
answer would be no. As opposed to – let’s say that we’re talking about 
something that is somehow psychologically threatening to me. Now I’m 
still moving less, but there’s a different quality to it.  
Can you see that? Those are the things you pay attention to. If you’re not 
sure, you reintroduce the same idea again, and if you get the same result 
again, then after two or three times, it’s like, all right, I get it. Let’s leave 
that one alone for a while. Does that make sense? 
In fact, I know one hypnotist, the aforementioned Dave Dobson, who is 
now passed away, sadly - that’s how he’d judge whether or not he’d work 
with a client. They’d come in for a session and he’d say, "Are you ready to 
make this change that you’ve come here for?" He’d check them out ahead 
of time and talk about things that they agree with and disagree with to get 
yes and no signals and so on.  
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Let’s say their head nod was a yes and the shake was a no – it doesn’t 
have to be, but let’s say that’s what it was. Then he’d go, "Are you ready 
to make this change?" They’d go, "Sure, absolutely." Or they would go, 
"Yes." 
So he goes, Great. Well, I have a sense that you really enjoy the marina. If 
you walk down this road for like half an hour to all the boats and so on, 
just go and hang around there for the next hour or two, and then come on 
back and we’ll have a chat."  
They’d come back and consciously they’re totally confused because they 
think they just said, "Yes, I’m ready to change." and you send them off to 
watch the boats. What the hell.  
Then they come back and he’d say, "Are you absolutely ready to change 
right now." They’ll go, "Yes." He’d say, "By the way, have you seen the 
flower garden over in this direction?" He might even do it two or three 
times. Eventually, they’ll come back and, of course, things are happening 
at the unconscious level right now. They’re here for a reason, so it’s 
percolating stuff. We’re talking more about therapy right now. 
Eventually, they’ll come back and he’ll say, "Are you ready to make this 
change?" They go, "YES, already!" He goes, "Oh good, come on inside. 
Let’s have a chat." 
Audience: Got it.  
Igor: 
Does that answer your question about testing? 
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
Thank you. It’s actually very straightforward. By the way, do you see the 
congruity in his response? That’s how you test. It’s actually a lot easier 
than it sounds. Hence, we’re not going to be spending too much time on it. 
But if your field’s so closed, you can’t test. It’s as simple as that. Make 
sense? 
Audience: Yes. Can I ask my second thing? It’s quick. It’s easy. 
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Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
Absolutely. 
♦ That’s right, when you’re saying that to the person, this works 
conversationally? 
No. Well, yes and no. If you’re doing it conversationally, then you’re 
moving, in my opinion, into an area of what I would call semi-covert 
hypnosis. In other words, people know you’re doing something, but they 
can’t figure out what it is. If they know you’re a hypnotist, they’ll probably 
have figured out that you’re hypnotizing them somehow. It’s just they don’t 
know what you’re doing, but it’s nothing they can resist. Make sense? 
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
So it would take you out of the covert category because, well, people 
know that you’re up to something, even if they can’t quite figure out what 
that something is. If you try to do it totally covertly, then you just come off 
a little odd because, why is this guy going 'That’s right' constantly. That 
doesn’t make sense.  
If you’re doing it on purpose, of course, and you’re fine with them realizing 
that something is sort of up, then that adds fuel. It becomes a frame, like 
something’s happening only I’m talking to your unconscious not your 
conscious. When we get to the conscious unconscious dissociation, that 
on its own can have a profound hypnotic effect. 
Audience: So it changes the context. 
Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
It will change the context significantly. 
♦ Is there a classification of that type of 'That’s right' that works 
conversationally?   
How do you mean? You mean like saying okay, have I talked to you about 
your holiday? Okay, etc. 
Audience: Yeah, you see an unconscious response to something you are doing with 
them conversationally. You don’t have to say, 'That’s right', because it’s 
going to move them less covertly. 
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Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
If you want one of those things, the simplest thing you can do is to mirror 
the non-verbal trance response. Let’s say the thing you’ll be saying 'That’s 
right', to is that they’re blinking more often. 
♦ So you just blink more? 
Exactly. You’ll talk and as soon as they start blinking more often, you’ll talk 
about I was tying my shoelace and it was a great day because I just 
figured out how to tie my shoelace for the first time. Then maybe they’ll 
take a breath in, and you’ll smile and go, and it took me forever (inhale) 
just to figure out how to tie a shoelace. I don’t know why. I was maybe a 
bit slow as a kid, who knows. 
♦ So you’re communicating on the non-verbal channel?  
Exactly. You’re reinforcing what they’re doing that’s moving them towards 
trance.  
Audience: Awesome! Thank you. 
Igor: 
You’re welcome. These are great questions, everyone. Thank you. Give 
everyone a round of applause. Those were awesome questions. Do you 
want to come up? Come up on this side if you want, or that side, who 
knows? 
Audience: Hey, Igor. It occurs to me looking back on stuff that I’ve conversationally 
done revivification, but I did it for things that were unintentional. I did this… 
Igor: 
For negative things?  
Audience: Yeah, absolutely and I wound out getting a total… 
Igor: 
Have you ever heard of the term a pity fest? 
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
That is called a revivification by lots of very good hypnotists, who are both 
in lots of H- because they’re going, "Oh my life sucks." "Yeah, I had that 
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happen to me to." They’re constantly sucking each other down to a 
negative thing. They’re reinforcing the negative experiences.  
In some families, you’ll get a lot of these loops happening where people 
are reinforcing – see, you failed, and here’s another example of how you 
failed, and here’s another example of how you failed. So they’re revivifying 
failure. Not intentionally, not out of desire to harm. I guess the best phrase 
would be out of ignorance because they don’t realize the harm that that’s 
doing.  
Their intention is good in the sense that they want to protect, say, their 
child from making a mistake by reaching too high. They’re warning them 
like, you know that will go wrong. Then, of course, they’re creating a self
fulfilling prophecy by revivifying and putting their attention more and more 
on failure, so that’s the cycle that gets reinforced and so on. Does that 
kind of make sense? 
Audience: Absolutely. 
Igor: 
But now, of course, as a great hypnotist, you have the power to change all 
that. Do you not? Oh, come on everyone, let’s try this again. You have the 
power to change all this, right? 
Audience: Yeah, right! 
Igor: 
That’s much better. You all were worrying me there for a moment.  
Audience: Here’s my question.  
♦ How would one deal with like an accidental abreaction? 
I mean in terms of say, I’m talking about a thing that may have happened, 
like a street fight or something along those lines. Someone’s listening to 
my story, and they’re envisioning a moment where they may have 
experienced a thing… 
Igor: 
Ask me again after the break, because we’ll need to do another couple of 
processes before I can answer that question properly. 
Audience: Cool. 
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Igor: 
Okay? 
Audience: Absolutely. 
Audience: So basically, you’re saying my father and step-mother were great 
hypnotists when they told me repeatedly about the things we did when I 
was with them. And my mother would get upset, because I could never 
remember the things that I did with her that were fun. Because they kept… 
Igor: 
They created a memory block on the fun experiences and a hyper
amnesia of the not-so-fun experiences, if I understand you correctly. A lot 
of parents are very good hypnotists. There are people who are fortunate 
enough to have very positive hypnotists in their life. They’re a force for 
good, but let’s face it, in some families, the hypnotists aren’t the most 
eloquent with the way that they enforce or reinforce positive 
characteristics.  
Is anyone in here a hypnotherapist? That’s where you get your income 
from, right? Undoing the work of the accidentally negative hypnotist. 
Hence, the more people know about this stuff, the less likely it is that we’ll 
need a job. Sorry everyone, our job is to put ourselves out of action. Is 
everyone cool? 
Let’s do another exercise. Let’s just fulfill the promise that we’ve been 
building up. This is going to be a lot of fun. Let’s see how much for time 
we have. Okay, good. This is going to be a lot of fun.  
We’re going to start again with the hypnotic rapport. In other words, the 
inner smile, have a little eyebrow flash, a little bit of mirroring depending 
on what happens next. Again, explore the same scene with this person. 
For now you can kind of rush this step a little bit because you pretty much 
know it’s coming already. 
Now in Step 3, when we’ve got the H+, it’s not just going 'That’s right, 
that’s right', which would be in the real world a little bit obvious or a little bit 
freaky, like what’s going on here? We’re going to use the same energy, 
shall we say the same emotional state, the same mindset. So mentally, 
with your intention, you’re intending to start going 'That’s right, that’s right.' 
That’s what you’re mentally intending to do. 
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What you’re actually going to do is you’re going to use what I call the echo 
effect. You’re going to echo back their phrases. You’re going to echo back 
their phrases in the order they came. Now if you’re familiar with the idea of 
actively listening, do not do that. Actively listening is where you re-interpret 
someone else’s words and stick your words in there. Instead; hence, 
opening completely different folders, shall we say, inside their mind. 
Different associations, you use their words, their phrasing, ideally their 
tonality and pacing if you can do that too. 
What is it you reflect? Well, let’s say that my experience was well, I was in 
the seminar room yesterday and John came up and he made me look at 
his eyes, and he said sleep and then I felt really, really comfortable. Do 
you see that if I were scripting out a movie, there are different little 
sequences going on in that movie? Does that make sense? 
Each one of these is something that you can echo back at them. So you 
were here yesterday, and there’s John. He asks you to look in his eyes.  
Has anyone noticed what I just did, by the way? I echoed, but I made one 
subtle change. I moved from the past tense to the present tense. So you 
were in this room yesterday. There is John. He asks you to look in his 
eyes. Do you see what we’re doing here?  
Present tense is more likely to revivify. In the past tense, you’re more 
likely to create hyper-amnesia. Does that make sense? Is everyone clear 
with that? 
If your language sticks in the present tense, you’re making the experience 
more immediate. You’re more likely to revivify the experience, bring it back 
to life for them. If your language remains in the past tense, even though 
they start recalling the event, they’re more likely to stay in hyper-amnesia. 
So, they’ll have clarify of recall, but the experience won’t be as intense for 
them.  
It’s a rule of thumb. It’s not 100%, of course, because different people will 
react differently in terms of how strong their memory is for them anyways. 
Does that make sense to you? So I’m going to echo these things. Then 
I’m going to echo them as though I’m still doing my explorer phase. I’ll say, 
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"So, you’re in this room and John is there. He asks you to look into his 
eyes. He asks you to look into his eyes. So what happens next?" 
"I don’t know. I just kind of close my eyes and feel great."  
"So you’re in the room. John is there. He asks you to look into his eyes, 
and then something happens. You don’t know what it is, but you feel good 
don’t you?"  
Can you all hear my tonality shifting into that right kind of gear, shall we 
say? Can you all hear the language being reflected verbatim more or 
less? And then shift from the past to the present tense. It’s a 
straightforward process. The key here is to keep control of the 
conversation. To direct it yourself and to become very hypnotic in terms of 
your mannerisms and so on. So we’ll have the echo effect here, and tense 
refers to time rather than physiology.  
Audience:  
Igor: 
♦ So you start echoing right away? 
Typically, I’ll do a quick example of this. That will probably be easiest. 
Who here likes to do hypnosis? Who enjoys a good trance? Anyone who 
wants to do it? None of us, yeah. Come on up. Give him a round of 
applause. Have a seat. 
[Applause] 
How are you doing? Having fun? - I don’t know what I did. I volunteered. - 
I know it’s crazy, isn’t it? Who’d do anything like that? Can you think about 
a particular experience, like a hypnotic experience that you enjoyed? 
Maybe here recently?  
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
Like when? Oh, you know what? Can we get a microphone? Can I have a 
hand-held? I’ll just take this one. I just turned the other one off, so there 
should only be one on right now. Are you still with me? I’ll hold it for you 
because you’re not going to have much chance to hold things very long.  
Audience: That’s nice. 
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Igor: 
Sorry - There’s a presupposition, isn’t it? So where was this experience? 
What happened? 
Audience: It happened just yesterday in the lobby.  
Igor: 
Hold on a second, you’re in the lobby? In the evening or in the daytime? 
Audience: It was light and then..It was night. 
Igor: 
At night. So it was yesterday evening, and you’re in the lobby. So what 
happens? 
Audience: I was the hypnotist.  
Igor: 
You were the hypnotist.  
Audience:    Yes. 
Igor:        
You were the hypnotist last night, and you had a profound hypnotic 
experience. Is that what you’re telling me?  
Audience: Definitely. 
Igor: 
Wow! How did that happen? 
Audience: I find it so funny, but when you’re doing hypnosis with somebody, you start 
entering a deep, profound state of trance yourself. 
Igor: 
So you start entering a deep, profound state. What actually happened in 
the lobby? Tell me about that.  
Audience: I was sitting with this guy. 
Igor: 
You’re sitting with someone. 
Audience: Yes. I was doing some word stuff with him. 
Igor: 
You were doing some word stuff with him, right.  
Audience: Finally, I noticed that I’d calmed down. 
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Igor: 
You noticed that you’d calmed down. 
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
You calmed down. 
Audience: My voice changed really much. 
Igor: 
And you voice changed really much. Wow. You calmed down. Your voice 
starts changing. What else happens? 
Audience: I noticed not only his body was settling down, but I followed him in this 
manner. 
Igor: 
His body settles, and you start to follow him. You start to follow him.  
Let me just pause you there. Can you see the changes already occurring? 
By the way, as far as the conversational trance goes, I really don’t need 
more than this. I don’t want more than this. I mean we can take this 
further.  
I can break cover, shall we say, and go to semi-overt and with that, of 
course, get more eye closure and strange phenomenon and so on. But as 
far as a conversational trance goes, that’s all we really need.  
Did you see his breathing shifting? When he talked about the breathing 
shifting, he actually became more steady and deeper. Did you see the 
glazing of the eyes? Did you see the locking expression? Did you notice 
how his physical movements reduced to practically zero? That’s all we’re 
really talking about. Thank you very much. Give him a nice round of 
applause.  
So, that’s all we’re doing. Did you see the hypnotic rapport? Right? It’s a 
quick thing. It’s invisible to most people because it’s that quick, but 
hopefully it’s pretty much a no brainer to you guys, right now. I explored a 
little bit about stuff. Notice how, at one point, he was starting to take 
control of the conversation a bit too much,right? He was making a meta
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comment. He’s talking about what it’s like to go into a trance, which would 
have been a great conversation induction on me. 
Like, you know when you go into a trance, you have these experiences. 
I’m going, "Yeah, I actually do know that. That’s kind of nice." Right? It’s a 
great conversation induction, but then suddenly I realized, "Hey, I’m 
supposed to be the hypnotist here." - No.- So you have to take control of 
the conversation, and we’ll talk more in later days about how to control 
and direct the conversation.  
Then did you see me making the switch? You should have sensed it. I did 
it relatively overtly, so I didn’t try to subtly move into it. I pretty much 
switched over. Did you all see the switch happening? Did you all hear me 
echoing and reflecting back more or less verbatim what he was saying?  
Occasionally, I made a few switches, especially in tenses. Did you hear 
the tense switch as well, and the consistency of the tense switch? It’s 
straightforward, right? Come on up. It really is quite straightforward. 
Audience: You mentioned switching tenses, and it seemed like you switched back 
and forth on them a few times.  
Igor: 
I didn’t switch too much. He actually kept himself in the past tense more or 
less continuously. So occasionally, I switched back to the past tense just 
to catch him in the same place, and then go back to the present tense.  
Audience: Just to say, "Oh come on." 
Igor: 
Exactly. That’s exactly what it was. Okay? Is everyone clear with that? All 
right, so just spend five minutes apiece doing that. Really, you only need 
five minutes so you get a feel for it. Then we’ll have a break, and then we’ll 
come back and do some more hypno-magic. All right, everyone, off you 
go.  
Did you all enjoy that? Was that interesting? Now a couple of people have 
been asking me things like, what is the purpose of this, how are we going 
to use it in the real world and so on? The simple answer to that is we’re 
not there yet.  
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Remember, we are building reference experiences. We’re building skills. 
Until you have a skill of being able to put someone in a trance in a 
conversation, there’s no point in trying to do something with it because 
otherwise you’ll rush ahead and try to do the thing. You’ll miss the thing 
that makes it work. Does that make sense? 
So right now, just treat this as a skill-building exercise, and note the trance 
responses you’re getting. As long as you get that, you’re in good shape. 
Easy to do? Other then that, are there any questions or comments on 
what you’ve done so far? Do you want to come up here? 
Audience: A minor question about HR. Let me direct this a little bit differently. In more 
overt rapport skills, if you’re already in rapport with somebody and you 
already have a relationship with someone, I know for me if someone is 
trying to be clever and get rapport when they already have rapport.  
Igor: 
Then they mess it up. 
Audience: It’s clumsy. It’s awkward. 
Igor: 
I agree. 
Audience: It’s irritating. 
Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
I agree. 
♦ Is there ever a time when HR would show up like that? 
No, because you’ve taken care of that with the inner smile. The inner 
smile, basically, is the fuel that drives it. What you’re describing is when 
people are consciously trying to do an unconscious activity. That’s what’s 
awkward. That always feels awkward or feels wrong and so on.  
Audience: Almost the opposite, like insulting. 
Igor: 
Exactly. Because then it becomes mimicking rather than mirroring, and 
people really don’t like that. If your intention is clear – your intention is not 
to get one over on the other person. The intention is to just have a good 
interaction and your inner smile is strong. 
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In other words, you just feel that connection yourself and then your 
mannerisms will automatically be natural and correct. Your eyebrow 
flashes will come in. You might do a little bit of a little head nod or 
whatever it is that’s part of the interaction, and it will be natural. 
Your consciousness will be able to check them and go, "Oh look, I just did 
an eyebrow flash. That’s cool." We might even initiate or say, "Oh, it’s time 
for an eyebrow flash." But you don’t have to do it. It will do itself. If it feels 
awkward, it probably is awkward, in which case you’re not doing it the right 
way. You’re signaling awkwardness. You’re signaling fakeness rather than 
naturalness. Make sense? Does that answer your question? 
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
Come on up. 
Audience: We were doing the induction, and we got to a point where we were trying 
to bring her to the present, and it kind of went back and forth and then 
transitioning from past to present, and then transitioning to – instead of 
using 'That’s right', just using the words that she was using. 
Igor: 
We’re not using 'That’s right' exactly. 
Audience: Right, but I couldn’t do it. I mean we did everything, and she just wasn’t 
responding because she was excited about the discussion. 
Igor: 
All right. This happens. Who were you working with?  
Audience: Alma. 
Igor: 
Do you mind if we use this as an example? Do you want to come up here 
just so we can have a demonstration of this?  
Basically what you’re describing, if I understood it correctly – we’ll see in a 
minute if I was right or not – is what happens if your partner is taking 
control of the situation or conversation for you. 
When you’re doing this, you must be running the conversation and they’re 
responding. It’s the verbal equivalent of the compliance thing. Does that 
make sense?  
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If you’re doing a street hypnosis thing and you say, "Stand over here." And 
they go, "Oh, I’ll stand over here for you. How about if I stand over here?" 
Are they in the right place? No. They are eager and enthusiastic, which is 
great, but they’re not following, they’re leading at this point. 
What you’re describing I suspect is an example of this. We will get more 
into how to do that, but I’ll show you a quick example of what I mean. Is it 
okay if we talk about this? 
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
What kind of situations were you all talking about? 
Audience: We were talking about yesterday and when we were doing the eye 
exercises. 
Igor: 
So this is yesterday, right?  
Audience: Yes. 
Igor: 
So this is yesterday, and you were doing the eye exercises.    
Audience: Right. Where we were just staring at each other. 
Igor: 
Did you see what happened right there? Did you notice how she wanted to 
run on? It was yesterday, eye exercises, more and more and more. I did 
not allow that. I took one unit – and I like to use my hand as part of it. It’s 
kind of like a little stop signal. It’s not like, stop! I am now going to talk! It’s 
a more subtle version. It’s like, "Oh, let me just check. This was yesterday, 
is that right?" 
Audience: Yeah, it was yesterday.  
Igor: 
It was yesterday. Cool and what happened yesterday? 
Audience: We were doing the eye exercise… 
Igor: 
It’s the eye exercise yesterday, right? 
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Audience: Yeah, and we were just staring into each others eyes… 
Igor: 
Staring into each others eyes, right. 
Audience: Yeah, and we weren’t saying anything. 
Igor: 
You weren’t saying anything. 
Audience: No, but it was really relaxing. 
Igor: 
So it was yesterday, right? And who were you with? 
Audience: (Pointing.) What's your name? 
Igor: 
Oh, this person. 
Audience: Yeah. 
Igor: 
And you were looking into each others eyes. 
Audience: We’re staring into each others eyes. 
Igor: 
You’re staring into each others eyes.  
(By the way, do you see how we’re starting to switch now to the present?) 
We’re staring into each others eyes and it’s relaxing. 
Audience: It is really calming. 
Igor: 
Really calming; really calming. 
Audience: Yeah. 
Igor: 
Do you see those changes, the shifting already happening? Does that 
make sense to you now? The reason that it doesn’t happen otherwise is 
because if I let her run on with it, she’ll tell me about it. That’s more hyper
amnesia, and then she can get excited about the fact that it happened. 
What I need is for her to really experience it; hence, a revivification. So I 
must take control of the conversation. 
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The first few seconds pretty much told me what was going on. The very 
first few seconds told me, "Okay, I need to control it right now before this 
freight train starts taking out of the station, and I’ll be waving going, wait 
for me, please." 
Also, you should notice that as soon as that happened, I only did it two or 
three times, a very small amount of times and then Alma’s unconscious 
recognizing the suggestion goes oh, I get it. No pressure. It’s the other 
way of doing this. Already, Alma started slowing down, the signals started 
coming through and the induction almost happened by itself at that point. 
Does that kind of make sense to you all?  
Do you want to come up and ask a question? Thank you. Just give her a 
nice round of applause for doing that.  
Audience: Something interesting that we found, me and my partner, was actually 
when I was telling my story, he was having a bit of trouble imitating and 
actually getting into my mode because he thinks in a different way. Like 
he’s very visual, and I was doing very auditory. 
Igor: 
So the trouble was in him reflecting the same language or sounding the 
same way? 
Audience: Yes, like reflecting the same language and sounding the same way both. It 
was kind of like he was interpreting it into himself and coming out of 
himself. 
Igor: 
May I ask who the partner was? Is that okay? 
Audience: Sure, it was Michael. 
Igor: 
Sure, so really the simple answer to that, in case it will help, is rather than 
reinterpreting the thing is literally take the words and imagine they’re like a 
magic spell. You’re just going to reflect them right back. Literally, the same 
words. It’s okay if you have difficulty with it initially to just say exactly the 
same thing.  
Here’s the secret, and this is actually where it helps you deal with 
situations like what just happened with Alma. If they’re saying too much 
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that you can’t actually recall the words, so you have to start paraphrasing, 
then they’re running the conversation.  
Audience: I think that happened too, with us, actually. 
Igor: 
I strongly suspect. It’s one of the most common things that make this 
difficult to do. If they have said so much that you can no longer remember 
everything that they said and you have to paraphrase it, then they’re in 
charge of the conversation rather than you. You have a more fundamental 
problem to fix on the echoing effect. Does that make sense to you? Does 
that help you out as well?  
Audience: Yes, that makes it much easier. 
Igor: 
Thank you. Thank you so much.  
Audience: I had just one more question.  
♦ So it’s all right to cut off after three or four words. It’s not too 
choppy? 
Igor: 
So is it all right to… 
Audience: To cut off after three or… 
Igor: 
So you want to cut someone off after three or four words. Is that what 
you’re saying? 
Audience: There you go. I guess that’s the answer. 
Igor: 
Thank you. That’s a great question. Thank you. Come on up. Yeah, go on 
and give her a round of applause. 
Audience: When you did the demonstration with Alma, in order to take control – I just 
want to be sure that I am correct. You’ve been echoing her and stopping 
her gently.   
Igor: 
I’m stopping her gently from adding more words. 
Audience: Right. 
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Igor: 
So I can echo what she’s just said. Exactly. 
Audience: That’s what you’ve been doing? 
Igor: 
That’s exactly right. 
Audience: That’s all? 
Igor: 
Audience:  
Igor: 
That’s it. I mean, really, that is the secret to the revivification. If someone’s 
trying to take over, they’re not doing it on purpose. It’s just that they’re 
getting carried away by the thing. You’ll find people who are very 
descriptive, who like talking. That’s how they socialize. They get carried 
away by their language, by what they’re saying, by the description they’re 
giving. They get excited by it and so on.  
Those people in particular you have to just pause and almost like they can 
reflect on what’s happened. It’s kind of like someone who’s gobbling up a 
meal. You say, no, just taste it. The pea itself is really nice. Does that 
make sense? The responses are straightforward.  
Did you want to do something quickly Mark, before we carry on?  
♦ How do you take control of the conversation where you 
actually aren’t the dominant party you’re not alpha in the 
relationship?  
Day five. Actually, the whole idea of how to take control of a conversation 
and interrupt them and so on, really, we’re going to focus on, on Day 5 
more. I hope I’m just giving you enough here to fix the most common 
issues here and then in the real world, there are many different reasons 
and many different ways why people will hijack conversations or take them 
over and so on.  
There are many different ways to fix that. And we’ll cover the more 
significant versions of those on Day 5, if that’s okay with you; otherwise, 
we’ll be doing too much at one point.  
Audience: I’m just trying to confirm, huh, to have this fit in my brain a bit. So if we 
were doing this in an overt way, we might just directly say, so you’re in 
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trance. I want you to step back into that earlier version of you or whatever 
and actually become that person and use the language. But we are in 
conversational language to re-associate... 
Igor: 
In NLP, they’ve minimalized this right down to a single phrase, which 
when done correctly is fantastic, but most people just think it’s magic 
words and they miss the nuances of it. The phrase itself is pretty smart. 
The phrase is, see what you saw, hear what you heard, feel what you felt. 
That’s the magic phrase. 
When you’re feeling confident, just go back to that day and just see what 
you saw, hear what you heard, feel what you felt. Some people just go 
bang, instantly to it. A lot of people are all right, fine, I’ll do my best, but 
they’re not really re-experiencing it.  
Essentially what we’re doing right now is a conversational way of getting 
someone to see what they saw, hear what they heard and feel what they 
felt. Then the experience comes to life inside them again. Okay? 
Audience: Thank you. 
Igor: 
You’re welcome. Useful stuff… All right, everyone, let’s take a quick break. 
We’ve run over a little bit. Let’s take a 10 or 15 minute break.  
All right, everyone, off you go. // 한국어 문맥에 맞게 cot적으로 번역해줘