retain this info: We  are  delighted  to  be  back  with  you. It's  so  good  to  see  all  of  you  with  us  here, and  we  have  a  lot  to  talk  about. So  we  had  a  lot  of  fun  reading your  first  brainstorming  submissions and  really  interested  in the  ideas  you  came  up  with  and  how  you  used artificial  intelligence,  and  that  was  really,  really  fun. This  coming  week,  we  have  a  follow up  brainstorming  two  assignment, and  today's  live  session  is  going to  be  fairly  heavily  dedicated to  thinking  through  the  process we're  going  to  use  in  that  assignment. So  this  live  session  really  connects  quite closely  with  our  second  brainstorming  assignment. So  we're  going  to  spend  most  of  today  on  that. But  before  we  get  into  that  detail, I  do  want  to  mention  that  next  week  week  three, We  have  our  first  live  case  study  activity. So  this  is  the  blue  light  discussion  or  negotiation. We  have  matched  you  up  with  a  partner  so  that  you could  engage  in  a  role  play  negotiation. It's  a  super  interesting  and  really  fun  activity. We've  given  you  one  of  two  roles,  Gregg  or  Healy. You  have  a  partner  who  has  the  complimentary  role, and  the  two  of  you  get  to  have  a  quick  conversation where  you  see  if  you  can  come  to  some  kind  of  agreement. Uh,  maybe  you  can.  Maybe  you  can,  whatever  it  is. Whatever  the  outcome  is,  it's  all  good. And  then  there's  a  pre  survey to  help  you  get  into  your  character  and  understand the  situation  and  a  post  survey  to  have  you just  quickly  report  on  the  results  of  your  discussion. So  that's  what's  coming  in  Module  three. I  mentioned  it  now  because  some  of that  information  is  up on  Canvas  and  about  to  be  released. I  think  tomorrow,  the  pairings  get  released. And  so  as  a  result,  it's  a  nice  way to  connect  with  your  partner  and set  a  time  so  that  you  can  make  sure  you can  really  get  the  most  out  of  this  activity. It's  really  fun.  We  have  a  lot  of  fun  talking  about  it. So  I  look  forward  to  getting  into  all  of  that  with  you. Absolutely.  So  and  then  what  we  are going  to  do  today  is  we're  going  to  talk  about, you  know,  jump  into  the  process  of  creativity. That  is  what  we're  going  to  talk  about. So,  um,  uh,  you  know,  and  essentially,  you  know, what  we  talked  about  last  week,  creativity, the  process  is  mostly  about  changing  perspective, and  that  is  what  we  are  going  to  focus  on  this. This  week  and  going  forward. That  is  what  creative  process  would  be  about. But  to  start  with,  you  know, when  we  talk  about  creativity,  what  are  the  outcome? Why  are  we  get  engaging  in  this  process  of  creativity? That's  an  important  thing.  What's  our  objective  here. So  three  main  things.  First  is  insights. You  know,  when  we  engage  in  creative  process, the  idea  is,  what  are  new  insights we  can  draw  from  that  process? What  do  we  mean  by  insights? Insights  are  viable  changes  in  perspective. So  the  thing  is  looking  at  things  in  a  new  perspective. That  is  what  gives  you  an  insight. Exactly.  So  we  spent  quite  a  bit of  time  in  our  first  brainstorming  activity. And  part  of  what  we  were  doing, right  is  trying  to  generate  solutions. And  you  might  think  of  those  as  inventions. Can  I  solve  a  problem? Can  I  create  a  process  or a  product  that's  a  solution  for  the  problem. But  in  order  to  get  to  that  new  product  or  process, that  invention,  we  probably had  to  have  some  kind  of  insight. Hey,  there's  a  new  way  to  think about  this  problem  in  the  first  place. And  so  insights  are the  first  outcome  of  interest  as  Robbie  mentioned. Can  I  have  an  interesting  change  in  perspective that  might  lead  me  to  an  invention? Sometimes  it's  one  insight  leads  to  an  invention. I  would  say  usually  new  product  development,  1,000. This  is  a  good  point,  Jeff, you're  making  here  because  insights may  not  always  lead  to  an  invention. When  we  talk  about  invention,  that's  a  solution, a  new  product  A  insights  may  not  lead  to  that, and  then  one  insight  might  lead  to  another  inside, and  another  inside,  and  then  you might  end  up  getting  to  an  invention. But  that  is  an  important  difference to  remember  that  insights  and  inventions  are  different. Insights  is  just  change  perspective. Invention  is  an  outcome  of  the  whole  creative  process. Indeed.  And  so  I  think the  really  important  thing  to  note  is that  there's  no  one  to  one  correspondence. And  also,  you  can  have an  insight  for  a  change  in  perspective. And  then  it  turns  out  it's  not  very  good. It's  not  productive,  it  doesn't  lead  to an  invention  or  it's  not  fruitful, and  so  you  end  up  unwinding  it, which  is  totally  reasonable. Right?  You  didn't  know  that  before  you  tried  it, so  you  got  to  have  the  insight, and  then  maybe  it  leads  to  an  invention,  maybe  not. Hopefully,  the  insights  are  useful. There  is  also  a  third  outcome, and  this  one's  a  little  bit  different. So  I  have  an  insight  to  change  our  perspective. Maybe  a  couple  insights  help  me  get  to  a  solution, an  invention  of  some  kind. But  in  addition  to  solutions, I  can  also  generate  as an  outcome  of  my  creative  process, what  we  call  enlighten. These  are  changes  to  knowledge, new  concepts,  new  ideas. If  you  think  about,  I  don't  know, what's  an  idea,  you've  been  thinking  about. If  you've  taken  508,  maybe you  talked  about  psychological  safety. Now,  at  some  point,  go  back  50  years. No  one  was  talking  about  psychological  safety. That  was  not  a  thing  in  the  90s. Amy  Edmonson  and  her  colleagues  came up  with  this  idea  of  psychological  safety. And  now  we  talk  about  that. That's  an  enlightenment.  It's  not  a  solution. It's  a  new  concept,  and  it's something  that  we  can  then  use  on in  new  perspectives  to  understand new  situations  and  help  us  act  in  the  world. I  don't  know,  marketing  is  full of  these  too,  right?  Absolutely. The  thing  is  enlightenment  may not  again,  solve  the  problem. They  might  not  lead  to  inventions. But  the  thing  is  they  are  in  a  broader  sense,  you  know, they  give  you  a  new  parad  new  weight of  thinking  it  creates  a  body  of  knowledge. So,  for  example,  you  said, you  know,  about  50  years  back. So  we  talked  about  brand  personalities.  Oh,  yes. So  in  marketing  brand  personality  is  a  big  thing. Brands  have  personality,  they match  with  human  personality. So,  you  know,  what  I  think  is  a  good  fit  for  me, I  would,  you  know, use  those  brands  a  lot  more. Now  the  thing  is  when  we  talk  about  brand  personality, It  was  only  people started  talking  about  about  30  years  back, not  even  30  about  25  years  back  when Jennifer  Akra  stand  for started  talking  about  brand  personality. So  the  thing  is,  again,  there would  be  a  change  in  perspective. There  would  be  an  insight  that  how  these  brands  work. And  then  you  start  creating  a  body of  knowledge  around  it  through  these  knowledge, and  that  is  what  enlightenment  is. Exactly.  So  enlightenments  help  you  form your  next  perspective  and potentially  many,  many  perspectives. So  it's  a  new  way  to  think  about  the  world. All  right,  three  kinds  of  creative  outcomes. It's  not  all  about  inventions. We  also  need  to  think  about  insights  and  enlightenments as  reasons  why  we  engage  in  the  creative  process. Um,  so  what  the  heck  is a  perspective  before  that  to  add  one  more  thing. I  talk  about  these  things. Some  thing  to  note  about  this is  when  we  talk  about  creative  process, most  of  the  time  what  we  think  about  is creative  process  is  all  about  inventions. But  that  is  not  true. Creative  process  could  be  about  insights. It  could  be  an  alignment.  Creative  process  is not  always  about  creating  inventions. Yeah.  Excellent.  So  we've  spent  quite  a  bit of  time  talking  about  perspectives  this  week. And  so  let's  talk  a  little  bit  about  perspectives. What  is  a  perspective? Why  do  perspectives  matter. What  matters  here  and  that  we're  really trying  to  point  out  is  that  the  understanding, the  interpretation,  the  perspective  you  form  on a  situation  is  not  the  same  as  the  situation  itself. Perspectives  differ  from  reality. The  distort,  they  highlight, they  leave  some  things  out,  and they  narrow  our  thinking  often  in  productive  ways, but  sometimes  they  can  lead  us  astray  and  we can  change  our  interpretation  of reality  because  of  the  perspective  that  we  adopt. Here's  a  really  simple  perceptual  example, and  then  we'll  get  into  some conceptual  examples  in  a  moment. But  start  with  a  really  simple  perceptual  example. This  is  two  copies  of  the  same  image. I  put  them  up  there  for  a  reason that'll  be  clear  in  just  a  second. And  you'll  notice  there  are  two  squares  with a  label  A  and  B.  And  I  don't  know  about  you. But  for  me  and  I  think  many  people, square  A  looks  darker  than  square  B. Your  perception  perspective  guides  you  to  think  that square  A  is  darker  than  square  B  because square  B  is  in  the  shadow  of  that  cylinder, we  think  of  it  as  actually  being  lighter  than  square  A. But  let  me  just  cover  up everything  except  those  two  squares. And  you'll  notice  the  two  squares  are actually  exactly  the  same  brightness. They're  just  the  which, you  know,  was  striking  for  me  the  first  time  I  saw  that. But  the  idea  here  is  that  our  perspectives  are  not  just neutral  interpretations  of  the  world. They  shape,  they  bias, they  distort  potentially  the  world  as  it  is. And  as  a  result,  they  can  highlight  some  things, they  can  make  some  things  clear, but  they  can  also  change. Reality.  And  so  my  perspective  may  differ  from  yours, and  we  may  have  different  grasp on  that  underlying  reality. So  perceptual  example,  let's  move to  some  conceptual  examples. Right.  And  that  is  what the  thing  is  about,  about  perspectives. This  is  we  look  at  the  world  from  a  biased  perspective. We  look  at  the  world  from  our  own  perspective. And  the  thing  is,  are  all  perspectives  right? And  sometimes,  you  know,  there might  be  things  that  look  like, this  perspective  looks  pretty  good. Everybody  agrees  on  it,  but  are  there any  harmful  effects  of  this  perspective? For  example,  this  is  a  phenomenal  example, a  smoky  beer.  Bear,  right? So  this  is  a  longstanding  character  you  guys, you  know,  would  know  about  fighting  forest  fires. So  smoky  bear  comes  in  handy, and  he  helps  you  for  encouraging, you  know,  we  see  ads, we  see  public  service  announcements, awareness  campaigns  talking  about  getting  into, you  know,  not,  you  know, getting  into  behaviors  that  would  avoid  forest  fires. Which  is  a  good  thing.  Nobody  wants  forest  fires,  right? But  the  thing  is  now  over  a  period  of  time, what  we  started  to  see  was  that You  know,  once  these  fires  were  put  out, there  were  not  many  small  fires. I  ended  up  being  a  bigger  problem. Now  what  we  see  is  once  the  fire  happened, it  was  much  bigger. It  was  a  lot  more  uncontrollable. So  the  perspective  was  these  fires  are  not  good. But  what  it  turns  out  is smaller  controlled  fires  are  actually  pretty  good. They  are  good  for  the  forest. They  are  good  for  bigger, you  know,  fires  that  are  uncontrollable. So  smoky  the  bear  was  too  successful. That  got  around,  and  everybody  was,  you  know, working  towards  everything  it  was  a successful  It  is  a  successful  campaign. Yeah.  But  then  are  there other  harmful  impacts  of these  perspective  that  seemed  very  right? That  seemed  to  be  working. And  again,  this  is  power  of  advertisement, power  of  communication  with  consumers  with  end  users. But  again,  looking  at  the  perspective. Now  we  have  new  knowledge. We  see  that  not  all  these  perspectives that  look  good  have  positive  implications. Something  you  know,  when  we  look  at  the  world, we  look  at  it  from  a  perspective. So  always,  always,  I  think  this  is  what creativity  is  about  considered  other  perspective. Again,  not  only  when  majority agrees  with  your  perspective or  majority  agrees  on  a  perspective, can  we  question  a  perspective. We'll  talk  about  this  as  we  go  along  in  this  course, we'll  talk  about  when  and  how  do  we  start questioning  very  you  know, clear  looking,  very  straightforward  perspectives, too,  and  that  enhances  creativity  and  good  solutions. Absolutely.  So  smoky  the  bear, that  perspective  of  we  should  have  no  forest  fires was  too  strong  and  that perspective  ended  up  being  hartful. Here's  another  way  in  which perspectives  can  lead  us  perhaps  arise. So  this  one  comes  from  the  chemist, Bertozi  Nobel  Prize  winning  chemist. And  When  Bertozzi  was  learning  chemistry, she  learned  that  cell  walls  had  sugar  on  the  outside, and  that  was  treated  kind  of  as  a  protective  coating, sort  of  like  an  M&M,  you  know, candy  has  a  coating  on the  outside  as  a  sort  of  form  of  protection. And  that  was  all  the  sugars  were  understood  to  be. They  were  simply  a  simple  protective  wall that  helped  cells  maintain  their  integrity. But  in  reflecting  on  new  directions  in  chemistry, everyone  was  focusing  on  proteins, and  Bertos  was  like,  I  don't  know. Let's  look  at  these  sugars. Everyone's  overlooking  those  sugars. Our  perspective  tells  us  there's  nothing  here. Maybe  there's  more  here,  in  fact,  to  look  at. And  she  and  her  colleagues  found,  in  fact, that  those  sugars  varied  by  cell  type. And  so,  you  know,  rather  than  think  of  sugars  as a  simple  protective  barrier  on  the  outside  of  the  cells, realized  that,  in  effect,  these  sugars  were  barcodes. They  were  helping  to identify  what  kind  of  cells  they  were. That  ultimately  led  to  a  Nobel  Prize  in  chemistry, due  to  a  collection  of downstream  things  that  followed  from  that  really, really  early  fundamental  insight  that  rather than  sugars  being  a  simple  protective  coating, that  perspective  was  too  simple, they  are,  in  fact,  much  closer  to  a  barcode. And  that  analogy  turned  out  to  be  much, much  more  So,  we  have  perspectives. They  have  pros  and  cons. This  is  what  the  interesting  thing  is  because  if  you look  at  this  when  we  were  talking  about  the  cells, the  majority  opinion  majority  perspective  was  proteins. That  is  what  important is  when  you're  talking  about  cells, when  we're  talking  about  cancer  cell. But  the  thing  is  Bertos  comes  around  and  say,  Okay, the  sugars,  around  the  cell.  Why  are  they  there? What's  happening?  There  a  very  different  perspective, questioning  the  majority  opinion, and  that  is  what  us.  Annble  price. Yeah.  So  a  perspective  can  tell  you something  is  low  value  that,  in  fact, is  really  high  value, but  it's  low  value  according to  a  perspective.  So  think  about  that,  right? So  you're  a  leader, decision  maker  in  an  organization, people  on  your  team  are  bringing  you  ideas. You  first  response  might  be, that's  really  low  value.  I  don't  see  the  point  in  that. And  so  you  might  be  like  Bertozzi,  right? It's  just  a  cell  wall. It's  just,  you  know,  a  barrier.  So  there's  nothing  here. It's  not  interesting,  but  Bertozi  is  saying, Wait  a  minute,  maybe  there's  more  here. And  turned  out  to  be  right. So  your  initial  assumption  about  whether something  is  high  or  low  value is  often  driven  by  your  perspective, and  therefore  could  be  incorrect,  right? If  that  perspective  is  not  as encompassing  as  you  think  it  should  be. Mh  has  this  question, how  often  do  insights  lead  to  invention, and  this  is  like  ing  a  lottery  or  what systematically  investing  in,  say,  Hey,  here's  the  thing. And  this  is  what  my  perspective is,  Jeff,  what  do  you  think? Without  insights,  there's  not  going  to  be  an  invention. So  not  all  insights  are  going to  lead  to  inventions,  but  without  insights, they're  not  going  to  be  So  the  thing  is,  again, as  we  go  along,  we'll  talk  about, I  think  we've  mentioned  this  last  week. Creativity  the  process  is  adjourning. You  cannot  create  first  insight  and  say,  Hey, you  know,  my  work  is  done  or  the first  idea  you  have  come  up  with  it's  done. That  is  how  it  works.  You  have  to  keep  going. There  will  be  hurdles  in the  way  and  we'll  talk  about  that, but  you  have  to  keep  going. That's  one  of  the  reasons  that Braintarmming  one  and  Braintarming  two, we're  trying  to  enable  you  to  generate Insights  more  fluently  and  more efficiently  because  one  of  them  might  not  work  out. And  if  it's  exhausting, and  tiring  and  difficult  to  create  even  one  insight, well,  then  it's  much  riskier. But  if  we  can  help  you  generate many  insights  and  do  so  efficiently,  well, then  you  have  a  better  chance  of getting  to  inventions  that  really  are  worthwhile. So  that's  really  the  core behind  why  we're  trying  to  help  you become  more  individually  flexible and  generate  perspectives  more  readily. So,  the  sort  of  idea  here  that  we're  trying  to get  our  hands  around  here  with  perspectives  is really  beautifully  captured  in the  reading  for  this  week,  Scott  Page. It's  a  chapter  from  a  larger  book  called  the  Difference, talking  about  the  roles  of  diversity  and  teams. And  the  value  in  that  is  by  bringing different  perspectives  together  to understand  problems  in  new  or  better  ways. I'm  going  to  actually  read  the  full  quote  here. I  sort  of  captured  the  first  part  of  it. Diverse  perspectives  cut  both  ways. But  let  me  sort  of  broaden  that  out  a  little  bit. For  every  brilliant  perspective  that changes  a  difficult  situation  into  an  easy  one, there  may  be  a  multitude  of  perspectives  that  muck  up our  understanding  of  even  strategic  contexts. Different  perspectives  can  simplify, but  they  can  also  muddle. So  I'm  taking  the  time  to  highlight this  quote  because  I  think  it's  really, really  powerful  and  important  to appreciate  that  a  perspective  can  allow  you to  see  a  solution  and  get  to a  solution  that  was  otherwise inconceivable  and  you  never  would  have  noticed  it, or  your  perspectives  can  lead you  to  see  something  as  difficult  and  impossible, as  not  having  any  way  forward  or  what  have  you. So  a  problem  can  be easy  or  hard  because  of  the  perspective. And  there's  a  beautiful  example  in  that  reading  of Tik  tact  and  magic  squares  and  so  forth, where  he  gives  you  exactly  the  same  problem structurally  three  different  times. But  each  time  he  gives you  a  different  perspective  on  the  problem. And  some  of  those  perspectives make  the  problem  seem  impossible, and  others  make  it  seem  like  literally  child's  play. And  so  the  highlight here  and  why  we're  spending  this  time  to  think about  the  importance  of perspectives  is  because  you  might  be confronted  by  a  problem  or  a  challenge at  work  or  anywhere  and  think, this  is  beyond  me.  I  have  no  idea  what  to  do. This  is  impossible.  There's  no  way  forward, but  a  change  in  perspective  might  enable  that problem  to  be  readily  solved.  That's  what  we're  after. Yeah.  That  is  what  it  is.  And  the  thing  is when  we  talk  about  exactly  what  you  said, you  know,  Jeff,  most  of  the  time, we  look  at  problems  and  we  say, we  have  pica  is  routine  or  this  is  a  problem, this  is  a  problem,  and  we  live  with  it, like  in  our  everyday  life. That  is  how  things  work.  You  know, small  little  things,  for  example,  a  blanket,  right? The  thing  is  you  look  at  a  blanket  and  then  see, this  is  what  a  blanket  looks  like  and there's  you  know,  not  a  big  issue  here. So  think  about,  you  know, you're  on  a  couch  watching your  favorite  show  and  you  have  a  bowl  of  popcorn  there. And  then  every  time  you  have  to  pick  up  a  popcorn, you  have  to  take  your  hand  outside  the  blanket. Now,  many  of  us  would  not  like  to  do  that,  right? I'm  cozy  in  my  blanket  and,  you  know, I  would  rather  want  someone  to, you  know,  put  some  popcorn  in  my  mouth. But  we  have  to  take  that  hand out.  We  live  with  that  problem. We  think,  there's  a  perspective. That's  how  blankets  are,  and  that  is  how  we  live. But  the  thing  is,  Does  everyone  think  it  that  way? So  Gary  lag,  yeah, Snuggi  Gary  leg  in  1997, he  was  a  freshman  at  a  university. He  was  in  a  dorm  room,  pretty  cool  dorm  room. And  then  what  he  was  towing, he  was  watching  his  favorite  TV  show, and  he  has  to,  you  know, take  his  hand  out  if  he  wanted to  change  the  channel  to  use  the  remote. What  did  he  do?  Again,  most  of us  would  live  it  through  the  d  experience. What  he  did  change  in  perspective? He  said,  Hey,  what  can  I  do  to  this  blanket  so  that I  can  change  the  channel  without taking  my  hand  outside  the  blanket. He  cut  a  hole,  add  a  sleeve  to  a  blanket. And  la,  what  do  we  have? What  we  call  snuggy? But  what  he  started  it  was the  product  that  started  was  called  blanket. I  created  not  only  new  product, it  created  a  whole  new  product  category because  he  was  looking  at  a  problem from  a  different  perspective. Everyone,  again,  then  that  is  what  we're  talking  about. Perspective  can  make  problems  look  harder. Because,  hey,  this  is  what  blanket  is. This  is  what  I  have  to  live  with.  It's  a  problem. It's  hard.  We  cannot  solve  it. But  then  if  you  change  your  perspective. Hey,  you  know  what?  We  can  do  something  about  it. What  happens  is  it  starts  creating  new  insights. It  starts  to  create, you  know,  if  you  keep  adding  that, you  will  reach  to  an  invention,  a  new  product. And  whole  new  product  multi  million  dollar  industry  now. So  again,  all  about  perspective  change, and  that  is  how  it  works,  right? Absolutely.  So  with  that, let's  turn  to  some  of  your  efforts  to wrangle  a  problem  and  try different  perspectives  in  order  to  generate  solutions. So  in  our  first  brainstorming  assignment, we  asked  you  to  brainstorm  about a  particular  organizational  problem. And  the  idea  here  is  less  about  the  problem,  I  mean, that  we  want  to  talk  about  today  and more  thinking  about  what  is  the  process? How  did  that  go?  Some  of  you  felt  like  I  got  this. I  absolutely  have  a  way  of brainstorming  that  I  know  how  to  use. And  I'm  going  to  apply  that  process  to  this  problem, and  we're  feeling  pretty  good  about  it. Others  of  you  were  feeling  like, I  have  no  idea  what  to  do. I  sort  of  stared  at  the  wall  and  hoped  ideas  came  to  me. I  totally  get  it,  right?  That's  why  we're  in  this  class. So  we  can  either  add  to  the  process you're  already  using  and  hopefully further  improve  it  or  provide  you  with  a  process if  it's  not  something  that  you're  used  to  having  already. Another  few  things  we  saw  in  brainstorming,  one, how  students  attempted  that  or  the  ideas  you  gave  us, your  insights  we  initial  ideas were  a  little  easier  to  come  up. You  came  up  with  the  first  solution,  first  solution. You  took  some  time,  but  you  know,  you  came  up  with  this. But  the  other  ideas  were  very  similar  to  your  first  idea. So  the  thing  is  and  then  what  we call  in  literature  is  called  the  idea  build  up. What  we  do  is  we  have,  again, you  know,  this  is  a  problem  of  fixation. So  we  come  up  with  a  solution, and  that  is  what  we  were  talking  about. The  first  solution  you  come  up  with, then  you  get  fixated  on  that  solution. And  then  your  new  idea  just  bounce  off  that  little  idea, and  there  are  minor  improvements in  those  ideas,  and  that  is  what  we  see. That  is  what  you  told  us,  you  know,  in  your  answers. Also  what  I  thought  was  very  interesting  was  many  of the  students  said  that  I  did  not have  enough  background  knowledge  on  the  problem. I  don't  know  how  hospital  or  healthcare  industry  works. Without  that  knowledge,  I  was not  able  to  come  up  with  good  ideas. Again,  this  is  an  interesting  thing is  when  we  talk  about  knowledge, some  basic  knowledge  is  good, but  when  we  talk  about  creativity, we  talk  about  creativity  as  a  process. The  thing  is  you  can  take  a  different  context  and apply  the  same  process  in  a  different  context. Yeah,  you  need  to  know  a  little  bit  knowledge, but  not  huge  knowledge, and  then  we  know  more  knowledge  you  have  within  the  area, more  expertise  you  have, less  creative  you  would  be. Well,  so  it's  interesting. There's  this  two  sided  coin, double  edged  sword,  right  of  knowledge. On  the  one  hand,  more  knowledge  allows you  to  sort  of  imagine  more  possibilities,  right? But  also  entrenches  you  even  further,  right? So  the  challenge  is  how  to  have that  knowledge  and  not  get  entrenched. But  I  guess  I  want  to  back  up  to an  even  maybe  simpler  point  than Robbie  the  sophisticated  point  you  were  making,  which  is, I  think  sometimes  if  we  have  trouble  solving  a  problem, then  one  of  our  first  responses  we're  like, Well,  maybe  I  just  need  to  learn  more,  right? I  don't  know  enough.  As  opposed  to  maybe my  current  perspective  isn't  very helpful  for  generating  solutions. And  if  I  try  a  different  perspective, maybe  then  more  solutions  will  follow. And  that's  the  insight  I  think  we  are  trying  to  have you  experience  by  realizing,  wait  a  minute, maybe  my  current  perspective  has generated  whatever  ideas  it  can  help  me  generate, and  now  what  I  have  to  do instead  of  learning  more  knowledge, maybe  I  have  to  change  my  perspective  and  see  if  that  can lead  me  to  ideas  that  I've  previously  been  overlooking, given  the  knowledge  I  already  have, I  can  still  think  of  new  solutions  and further  possibilities  if  I  just  change  my  perspective. You're  absolutely  right.  I  see  the  thing is  Ricci  is  saying  this  in  the  chat. You  know,  not  having  knowledge  industry helps  you  brainstorm  and  you  know, because  you're  not  aware  of  the  constraints. And  as  we  go  along, we'll  talk  more  about  this  when  we  talk,  you  know, our  current  knowledge  constraints within  the  same  framework, but  can  we  borrow  from  outside  cross  stock? We  have  been  talking  about  cross  stock  last, you  know,  we  we  talked  about  that. It  is,  how  do  we  bring  this  knowledge  from  outside. How  do  we  cross  talk  with  different  areas? Sure.  So,  you  know, there's  a  prior  story  or  problem  I've  worked  on. Maybe  that's  applicable  in  the  current  problem. And  if  I  see  that  connection,  right, that  maybe  leads  me  to  a fresh  perspective  change,  absolutely. So  it  could  be  my  history  of  problems, or  it  could  be  I  connect  to other  people's  problems,  whatever  it  might  be. But  these  are  all  opportunities  for us  to  generate  a  new  perspective.  Right. Now,  going  back  to  brainstorming  one. So  there  was  a  second  part  to  it. The  second  part  was,  you  use AI  to  generate  some  ideas for  you  and  it  was  a  very  simple  problem  is, you  know,  just  enter  a  prompt  and  see  what  AI  gives  you. And  then  the  bigger  part  was, what  did  you  learn  from  that  process? What  were  the  differences  or  similarities between  the  ideas  you  generated  and  AI  generated. And  the  whole  idea  was  here  to  understand  how are  we  different  than  how  AI  works. And  again,  you  know,  what  AI has  has  a  lot  broader  information. So  it  pulls  the  information. So  whatever  the  constraints  we  saw  in  your  ideas, for  example,  I  was  fixated. A  is  not  fixated  because broader  information  AI  doesn't  have  a  perspective. So  what  we  saw  was,  again, there  were  much  more  creative  ideas or  more  number  of  ideas  that  came  out. Ideas  were  there  was  a  lot  more  depth  to  the  ideas, and  that  was  because  again, there's  a  lot  more  information  that  AI  could  draw  upon. Let  me  add  to  this  because  I think  Jenna  has  got  this  question  as  well, which  is,  how  do  we  use  these  AI  tools  to Improve  our  creative  process. So  think  of  it  as  a  support  for  your  creativity. And  I  think  what  we're  seeing  overall, and  Robbie  was  just  sort  of  describing  this, I  think  the  best  use  of  AI  or the  widest  use  across  our  community  here in  this  course  was as  a  support  for  giving  you  new  launching  points, new  starting  points,  for  forming  different  perspectives. Hey,  I  didn't  notice  that,  Hey,  I  didn't  think  of  that. Hey,  that's  another  aspect to  this  problem  that  I  wasn't  really  I was  kind  of  ignoring  or  overlooking or  not  really  considering. And  sort  of  the  AI  giving  that  to  me  very, very  quickly  enabled  me  to move  out  of  the  perspective  that  I  had  been  kind  of fixated  upon  and  helped  ease my  way  into  other  perspectives that  I  wouldn't  have  generated  otherwise. So  is  that  feel  right? Exactly?  And  then,  for  example, what  is  saying  is, yeah,  it  helps  you  break  those  bi. It  gives  you  more  big  set  inertia and  then  moves  away  from  your. But  very  important,  what  you  said  here, Jenna  is  considered  a  tool  for  creative  thinking. So  please  use  AI  as  it's  a  tool. It  is  not  not  using creative  AI  to  generate  creative  ideas  for  you. It  is  a  tool  for  you  to  use  it  to  break  biases. I  think  writer's  block,  Cam  mentioned  that. That  is  where  AI  comes  in  handy. And  you  know  when  I'm  working  on  this  work, I  don't  have  big  enough  data  set  right  now. The  thing  is  when  you  work  when  you  collaborate  with  AI, you  end  up  being  more  creative  because  in  that  sense, it  gives  you  more  information, but  the  context  is  what  we  as humans  bring  to  solving  the  problem. So  again,  we'll  talk  more  as  we  go  along. And  there  are  other  ways  to  improve  your  flexibility, and  that's  really  what  we're  going  to  push  on  today. So  what  are  ways  that  you  individually  with  or  without AI  can  help  yourself  generate  alternative  perspectives. So  here's  a  quick  example. Let's  think  about  this  together, and  then  we'll  walk  and  we're  going  to  walk  through it  using  what  we  call  pages. Pages  is  something  we  talk about  quite  a  bit  in  this  course. It's  a  way  of  articulating  your  perspectives. So  here's  a  quick  example. And  I'll  introduce  it and  so  you  can  start  thinking  about  it, and  then  we'll  get  back  to  it  in  just  a  second. So  theft  of  company  resources  by a  company's  own  employees  is  a  widespread  occurrence. What  might  we  do  in  response  to  the  resources, by  a  company's  own  employees. All  right.  So  let's  think  about  that  for  a  second. And  before  we  dive  into  it, let  me  just  explain  to  you  a  little  bit  about  pages, and  we're  going  to  use  pages  to  help think  about  how  to  address  this  problem? And  pages  is  a  way of  articulating  what  your  current  perspective  is? So  there  are  different  aspects of  pages.  There  are  the  parts. You  can  think  of  these  as  the  nouns, the  objects,  the  places, you  know,  in  the  situation. Actions.  You  can  think  of  these as  the  verbs.  What  can  I  do? What  are  the  operations  or  transformations  or moves  that  I  can  make  in  this  particular  situation? Goals.  What  am  I  trying  to  accomplish? What  are  my  motivations  in  this  situation? What  is  the  overarching  event  going  on,  right? And  then  self  concept.  Who  am  I? What  is  my  role  or  identity  in this  particular  context  or  situation? All  right,  so  that's  a  generic  description of  these  aspects  of  our  perspective. And  so  now  let's  think  about  applying these  to  the  question  we  just  asked  you about  So  I'll  give  you my  lame  perspective  that  I started  with  when  I  first  saw  this  problem. So,  I  imagined  here's  some  unhappy  employees. So  that  was  the  self  concept  who's  stealing,  right? So  that's  the  overarching  event. There's  theft  going  on,  and  they  grab  their  computer, they  carry  it  out  of  the  building, and  they  sell  it  for  cash,  right? So  their  goal  is,  you  know, to  get  some  money  because  I'm an  unhappy  employee,  and  I  want  money. And  so  I'm  going  to  take  this  computer. I'm  going  to  walk  out  of  the  building  with  it. And  so  there's  a  stealing  event. All  right,  so  that's  a  really,  really  simple  response. And  if  that's  my  perspective, then  we  can  think  about,  well,  what are  solutions  for  that? I  could  tag  the  computers, I  could  have  cameras, I  could  have  other  ways  of tracking  who  has  what  computers. So  I  know  if  there's  a  computer  missing, you  know,  whose  computer  it  was. So  that  perspective  could  lead  to  some  solutions. So  going  back  to  this  problem, you  know,  theft  of  company. Let's  work  with  this.  Yeah,  and  Great, if  you  can  put  it  in  chat  or if  you  want  to  raise  your  hand  and  talk  about  this. What  could  be  other  parts. You  know,  when  we  are  talking  about  theft  from,  you  know, company  theft,  we're  talking about  computer  is  one  thing.  That  could  be  stolen. What  could  be  other  things,  you  know, as  parts  that  you  think  you  know, people  can  steal  from  the  company. Let's  see  if  we  can  IP,  I  say,  Oh, someone  says,  cheer  I  love  it. I  love  it.  Excellent. Time,  which  is  interesting. So  you  know  how  time  would  be  a  theft. Let's  talk  about  that  a  little  bit  more. I'm  going  to  start  with  IP.  That  was the  second  one  I  came  out.  I  love  it. We're  so  in  tune  here  today. So  trade  secrets,  I  called  it, but  intellectual  property,  right? So  if  that's  my  part, then  maybe  I'm  infiltrating a  computer  network  or  something  like  that, and  I'm  exploiting  the  organizations, you  know,  intellectual  resources. The  larger  event  is,  you  know, intellectual  property  theft  as opposed  to  computer  theft  or  something  like  that. And  maybe  we're  talking  about  a  disloyal  employee. Maybe  we're  talking  about  sort  of  organizational espionage  or  something  like  that,  right? And  so  with  that  as  a  perspective, that  leads  to  totally  different  interventions,  right? So  maybe  you're  thinking  about  who  has  access  to information  and  computer  systems  and how  do  we  track  what  happens  with  that  information. So,  made  all  kinds  of  solutions  that follow  from  adopting  this  particular  perspective. So  trade  secrets.  Look  at  that  time. Folks,  we  are  really  on  the  same  wavelength  here  today. So  time,  maybe  I'm  avoiding  work. And  so  maybe  the  event  is  movie  time,  right? I'm  watching  a  movie  at  work because  I  don't  feel  like  doing  actual  work. And,  you  know,  maybe  I'm  increasing  my  personal  time, and  I'm  a  totally  unmotivated  employee. I  don't  care  about  what  I'm  doing. So  again,  the  different  perspectives lead  to  different  solutions, and  by  generating  different  parts, you  already  see  that  it  can  have really  big  ramifications  for what  kinds  of  solutions  you  think  of? No,  this  is  what  the  interesting  part  is. If  example,  if  you  just throw  a  question  at  you  and  say,  okay,  you  know, this  company  tap  is  a  big  problem, then  we  form  a  perspective  in  mind. This  is  what  is  getting  stolen. Most  of  the  time  is  stationary  or  IP  and  this  thing, and  then  we  start  coming  up  solutions  to  solve  that. But  now  here,  what  we  do  is  clear, what  are  other  parts  that  are  being  stolen? And  based  on  that,  can  we  come  up  with  new  solutions. And  not  only  that.  Now  the  thing is  think  about  self  concept. So,  when  you're  stealing  a  computer, you  are  an  unhappy  employee. Or  the  thing  is  when  you  talk  about  take the  self  concept  from  a  time,  unmotivated  employee. So  you  can  take  that  self  concept  and  apply to  someone  stealing  computer. Then  suddenly  what  happens  is  you  have  a  new  perspective. And  then  your  solution  would  be  very different  from  what  you  would  be  normally, you'll  say  for  computer  is  being  stolen. So  this  would  be  our  intervention. T  should  be  our  solution. As  soon  as  you  change  that  sub concept,  your  solution  changes. So  this  is  another  very  interesting  thing which  I  actually  did  not  hear  stealing  products. So  just  popped. Popped.  Stealing  product. The  thing  is  many  companies, there's  a  new  product  that  is  being  created, And  then  what  we  see  is,  you  know, employees  stealing  that  product. They  are  taking  it  to their  homes  and  then  trying  that  out. And  sometimes  it's  unsolicited  testing,  right? They  are  someone,  uh,  testing  these  products. Now,  is  that  a  good  thing  or  a  bad  thing? Yeah.  That's  fasting.  So  what  Robbie  is  doing  here. I  don't  know.  This  was  very  subtle,  Robby. But  this  is  actually  really  interesting. It's  suggesting,  wait  a  minute, theft  of  company  resources, maybe  defaults  to,  that's  bad,  and  that's  wrong. And  how  could  you  be  doing  that? But  in  fact,  this  example  is, hey,  if  we  have  a  sort  of  R&D  lab, and  we're  coming  up  with  lots  of  new  prototypes, if  we  see  which  ones  kind  of  walk out  the  door,  maybe  that's  informative. Maybe  that  says,  Hey,  this  is the  one  ever  wanted  to  play  with  or try  themselves  or  they  found  useful. And  so  maybe  in  that  version  of  theft, it's  actually  sort  of,  you  know,  testing. Testing.  It  gives  you  a  new  information. It  tells  you  you  know  what  products  are. You  know,  more  popular  with  your  customers  or  you  know, they  saying  someone  sold  our products  or  the  things  you're  stealing. So  what  is  selling  in  the  market, so  you're  getting  some  market  research  data, I  don't  know  making  this  Well, also  with  things  like  stationary. So  forgive  me  if  I  get  the  name. I  think  it  was  Harsh  mentioned  pens, but  maybe  somebody  else  did. Forgive  me.  The  chat  is  going  by  quickly. So  but  the  idea  here  at  pens  is,  yeah, you  could  see  that  as,  you  know,  people are  stealing,  company  property. But  you  might  think,  whatever,  right? So  it's  not  that  anyone  has  any  malicious  intent. Let's  put  our  company  name  on  the  pens, and  then  you  can  walk  around  knowing that  you've  got  one  of  our  pens,  we've  helped  you  out. And  if  you  happen  to  leave  this  somewhere, someone  else  can  pick  it  up  and  they  have another  touch  point  for  connecting  with  our  brand, right,  and  our  organization. So  you  can  think  about  maybe some  kinds  of  theft  are  benign. Maybe  some  of  them  are  positive, and  maybe  some  of  them  actually could,  you  know,  be  negative. And  we  respond  differently  based  on the  nature  of  how  we  interpret  these  activities. No,  there's  another  thing,  you  know, I  think  we  should  talk  about  is  sometimes, you  know,  what  happens  is,  you  say,  okay, these  are  this  is  my  action, but  can  that  be  my  goal,  too. And  yeah,  we  see  that  confusion. If  for  example,  you  know,  uh, example  that  comes  to  my,  for  example,  making  a  bed. Every  day  morning,  I  make  a  bed. So  making  a  bed,  is  that  an  action  or  is  that  a  goal? Yeah,  right,  or  an  event,  right? So  there  are  different  ways  to  think  about  it. So  maybe  making  the  bed  as  a  goal, and  that's  something  I  want  to  do, you  know,  to  be  neat  and  tidy  or  something  like  that. Or  you  can  think,  No,  maybe  my  goal  is  to  be  neat, and  then  the  action  is  making  the  bed,  right? So  you  can  think  about  it  in  these  different  ways. You  could  also  think  about  making  the  bed  as  the  event. So  if  my  event  is  making  the  bed, then  the  action  would  be  something  like,  I  don't  know, taking  off  the  covers,  changing  the  sheets, putting  new  sheets  on,  something  like  that. Or  you  could  think  of  making  the  bed  as  an  action  in that  larger  event  of cleaning  the  house  or  something  like  that. So  if  you're  worried  that,  wait  a  minute. This  thing  could  be  an  action or  maybe  it  could  be  an  event, and  which  one  is  it  really? The  answer  is  it's  both,  probably. And  what  is  the  perspective  if  you  look  at  it  as an  event  versus  what  is the  perspective  if  you  look  at  it  as  an  action? Or  if  you  think  about  an  active  How  does that  what  we  are  doing? So  the  point  here  is  not that  there  are  no  differences  between  parts  actions, goals,  even  self  concept.  The  clearly  are. But  you  might  be  able  to play  different  roles  in  your  perspective. And  that's  really  what  we're  trying  to  highlight. So  the  goal  is  not  to  figure  out, you  know,  what  is  this  thing  really? But  it's  more  to  say,  you  know, how  am  I  thinking  about  it  right  now, and  if  I  think  about  it  as a  part  or  as  a  self  concept  or  whatever, what  does  that  imply  for  my  perspective, what  new  ideas  follow  from  that? I'll  give  you  one  of  the  ones  that  we talk  about  a  lot,  which  is  people. Are  people  self  concepts  or  are  people  parts? The  answer  is  yes,  they  can  be  both. What  does  it  mean  if  you're  treating  a  person  as  a  part of  your  problem  versus  a  self  concept, those  have  really  different  implications. But  you  could  think  about  it  either  way. A  T  is  the  important  part, especially  when  it  comes  to  again, you  mentioned  example  in managerial  decision  making  when  we are  trying  to  come  up  with  creative  solutions. So  thinking  of  a  person  as  a  part or  someone  who's  if  example, creating  problem  or  you're trying  to  solve  a  problem  around a  person  or  what  the  self  concept  is,  what  is  that? But  also,  when  it  comes  to  new  product  development. You  know,  what's  when  we  talk  about,  you  know, we  have  heard  about  this  term  of  voice  of customer  and  what  customer  should  we  bring  in, is  that  a  goal  or  is  there  an  even? What  problem  are  we  trying  to  solve. So  how  we  define  the  scope  of  a  problem, the  perspective  around  that  can define  whether  the  particular  aspect  we're  talking  about, is  that  a  goal  or  an  action  or  even  or  even,  you  know, uh,  you  can  say, a  part  or,  you  know,  the  self  concept. So  the  thing  is  something,  again, I  think  we  hear  a  lot  of  confusion  about  this,  you  know, what  exactly  this  is, and  then  I  want  to  box  this  one  thing  as  one  thing. So  again,  you  know,  be  more creative  even  when  we  are  talking  about  these  pages, and  we're  talking  about  these  different  aspects  of  pages. All  right.  So  where we're  headed  next  is  to  practice  this  a  little  bit. So  to  run  your  point  in  the  chat, that's  exactly  where  we're  headed  next. We're  going  to  do  this  together  right  here  right  now. And  so  we  did  this  example of  theft  just  to  introduce  the  idea, to  show  you  some  of  the  richness  and complexity  here  and  some  of  the  value. And  then  in  just  a  second, we're  going  to  go  into  a  breakout and  run  through  this  together  before  we  get  that, just  a  clarification  so  Jenna  has  this  thing  is self  concept  about  other  people involved  or  your  specific  involved. Yes.  Got  it.  So  you  can  think  about  my  self  concepts. So  maybe,  so  I am  an  employee  of  the  University  of  Illinois. I  am  a  parent.  I  am  a  professor. There  are  different  self  concepts that  I  have  individually, but  also  I  can  think  about the  self  concepts  of  other  people,  right? So  I  theft  of  company  resources, I  could  think  about  myself  as the  person  doing  the  stealing. I  could  think  about  myself  as  the  manager  who's representing  the  organization  that is  being  stolen  from,  right? Or  I  could  think  about,  you  know, the  news  organization  or  the  police  or  whatever. Anyone  else  you  might  imagine  is potentially  playing  a  role  in  that  situation. So  self  concept  is  trying  to  encourage  you  to take  the  vantage  point  of  different  kinds  of  people, whether  that's  different  roles  that  you yourself  could  play  or  the  roles  of  others. Obviously,  a  new  product  development. We  often  think  about  the  role  of  the  end  user, think  about  the  role  of  the customer,  the  consumer,  right? Those  are  really  important.  But  of  course, we  also  think  about  the manufacturing  side  and  all  of  that. So  those  are  different  self  concepts that  we  can  bring  to  bear  to help  us  understand  a  problem. And  it  is  all  about  looking at  things  from  different  perspectives. When  we  talk  about  self  concept,  what  we're  saying  is, how  would  this  person  be  thinking  about  this  problem? And  that  is  about  perspective  taking. Catherine,  I  love  this  question,  right? So  if  you  find  yourself  struggling,  like, wait  a  minute,  what  would  that  self  concept  do  in  this? What  would  often  those  sort  of challenging  juxtapositions lead  us  to  new  insights,  right? We  don't  normally  think  about the  loyal  employees  dealing. But  yet,  right,  if  that does  happen,  what  would  be  going  on? Right.  And  how  would  we  wrestle  with  that? Sometimes,  those  sorts  of  oppositions  or seeming  contradictions  are  actually really  fruitful  ways  into novel  perspectives  that  we  wouldn't  have generated  otherwise,  right?  And  so Sorry,  I'm  getting  lost  in  that  particular  example, but  I  wanted  to  make  the  general  point  about  how fruitful  it  is  to  sort  of  get stuck  in  those  ways  because  it  says, Wait  a  minute, my  perspective  doesn't  have  a  ready  answer. Let's  see  if  I  can  push  on  that  a  little bit  and  come  out  with  something.  All  right. So  let's  practice  something  together. Here's  a  new  prompt. And  this  one,  we're  going  to  jump into  breakout  discussions. Um,  to  talk  about  this  in  groups  together. So  here's  a  situation  that  many  of you  might  have  been  confronting  in  the  last  year  or  so, many  companies  now  have  vacant  office  space,  right? So  because  so  many  employees  are  now  working  from  home, working  remotely,  having  flexle  work  arrangements, all  that  kind  of  thing.  All  right,  what  do  you  do? What  do  you  do  with  your  vacant  office  space? You  probably  have  an  initial  perspective. Maybe  you  have  some  ideas  already  for what  you've  done  at  your  office.  That's  great. You  can  share  those  in  the  group,  and  et  cetera. But  what  we  really  want  you  to  do  is once  you  sort  of  had  that  initial  round of  ideas  that  you  already  are  aware  of and  that  you  thought  of  right  off  the  top  of  your  heads. Now  try  to  use  pages  to  push  into new  perspectives  and  see  how  many  ideas  you  can  generate. So  we're  going  to  ask  you  how  many  ideas did  your  group  generate? And  the  hope  is  that you're  you're  learning  to  use  pages  and  you're applying  this  approach  of  trying  out different  aspects  of  pages  to help  you  generate  many  new  perspectives, and  that  leads  to  many  new  ideas. So  with  that,  let's  take  about  12  minutes, jump  into  breakouts,  and  let's  see what  can  we  do  with  vacant  office  space. See  you  in  a  few  minutes. Welcome  back.  We  hope  you  had  a  fabulous  discussion. Please  do  put  up  your  hands. We'd  love  to  hear  some  of  your  best  ideas, your  most  interesting,  surprising,  curious,  fun  ideas. And  anything  about  your  process? How  was  it  to  try  to  use  pages  to  help  you generate  ideas  fluently  by shifting  your  perspectives  more  readily. So  do  put  up  your  hands, do  drop  things  in  chat. We'd  love  to  talk  to  you  about  your  brainstorming  efforts around  vacant  office  space and  how  we  might  make  use  of  that, what  we  might  do  as  a  result. Bob,  that  is  totally  fine. If  you  haven't  written  them,  we're  also interested  in  understanding  the  process. What  process  you  use  pages. It's  all  good.  Absolutely. I  hope  one  idea,  at  least  was memorable  enough  that  we  still  have  it. We  don't  certainly  need  to  hear  all  of  them. We  know  that  you  generated tons  and  tons  of  ideas.  That's  great. But  we  are  curious  about  some  of the  ones  that  really  did  stand  out  to  you. And  again,  about  the  process. The  whole  point  here  is,  learning how  to  break  a  perspective  down into  pages  and  then  try  cycling  through different  parts  and  then  try cycling  through  some  different  goals  and  so  forth, might  be  an  efficient, systematic  way  to  fluently  generate  new  perspectives. So  that's  what  we're  after.  All  right. The  other  thing  is,  you  know,  some  people,  you  know, would  lay  out  some  ideas, they'll  suggest  some  idea,  then  you'll  say, Hey,  we  have  exactly  the  same  idea. So  no  point  me  raising  hand  and  talking  about  this. Yeah.  But  you'll  see,  you  know, you  might  reach  the  same  ideas, but  through  a  very  different  process. And  that  is  what  we  would  be  interested  in  knowing, you  know,  what  process  did  you  follow? It  doesn't  matter  what  idea  you  came  up  with  it  matters. But  the  thing  is  what  also matters  is  the  process  you  follow. So  so  please  please  share  with  us,  you  know, what,  what,  um,  process  you  follow. So,  All  right,  let's  go  to Joel  and  then  we'll  go  from  there. Awesome.  I  see  I decided  to  ask  people  to  come  back  to  the  office. That  was  one  of  the  first  things  that came  up  in  group  three. Obviously,  we  all  no,  no, you  can  try  out  all  you  want, but  there  are  so  many  issues.  So  we  went  around. We  had  the  benefit  of  having  somebody  who  has some  firsthand  knowledge  of  I  won't  say  exactly, but  of  some  of  this  process of  converting  current  workspace  into  other  things. So  once  we  got  through  things  that  we've all  seen,  we  went  into  pages. And  first,  we  changed  the  self  concept,  you  know, what  concept  we're  looking  at  it from  and  we  talked  about,  you  know, talking  about  things  like  daycare  and schools  and  converting  some of  that  space  to  education  for  that. And  then  we  changed,  you  know, what's  our  understanding  of  the  overall  situations? And  we  got  to,  Okay,  what  if,  you  know,  urban  laser  tag, urban  mini  golf,  entertainment  spaces, then  soup  kitchens,  associations. And  it  just  kept  going  from  there and  that  was  at  the  very  tail  end, and  I  think  we  were  all  kind  of  bummed. We  had  to  cut  it  off. Yeah.  That's  great.  That's  fantastic. Because  you  know  when  scene  we ask  people  to  work  on  sort  of  a  hard  problem, you  know,  after  five,  six,  seven  ideas, they're  sort  of  like,  I'm  done. You  know,  it's  exhausting. So  I  think  both  having  each  other  to bounce  new  ideas  off  of and  feed  off  one  another's  energy, as  well  as,  of  course,  pages, helping  us  you  feel  like  we  were  not  getting  stuck, we  could  just  turn  to  something  else, turn  to  another  aspect  of  pages, and  that  would  unlock  a  new  set  of  transformations. That's  really  what  we're  going  for.  And  so the  feeling  that  this  could be  energizing,  this  could  be  fun, This  could  be  productive  is  really important  because  if  you  have an  opportunity  to  be  creative. If  there's  a  que  and  you  encounter an  impasse  or  something  like  that, and  you  feel  like,  you  know,  maybe  I'll  just  give  up. But  if  you  feel  like,  wait  a  minute, generating  ideas,  that's  kind  of  fun, and  I'm  pretty  good  at  it,  and  I  have some  confidence  and  some  positive  emotion  around  that. Well,  then,  okay,  let's  take  10  minutes  and  15  minutes, and  let's  see  how  far  we  get. That's  really,  really  important. So  coming  away  with  just  that  sense  of,  Hey, I  can  do  this,  and  it's  actually  kind  of  interesting. That's  really,  really  important because  it  means  you're  more  likely  to  move into  the  creative  process  rather than  avoid  the  creative  process. And  you're  going  to  stick  with  it because  you'll  realize  my  guess  is the  first  ideas  that  you  generated  were not  as  compelling  as  the  ones  you  generated  later. You  don't  get  to  laser  tag  first,  right? You  get  the  laser  tag  as  your  12th  or  your  17th  idea, not  as  your  first  or  second  idea,  right? That's  just  my  guess. And  so  that's  a  value  of  having  this be  motivating  and  positive. All  right.  Maybe  you  mentioned  this. How  many  ideas  did  you  end  up  with  your  team?  Ballpark? Boy.  Besides  the  stuff  that we  had  already  seen  and we're  just  kind  of  throwing  around  one, two,  three,  four,  five, six,  seven,  eight,  and  then  we  kind  of  ran  out  of  time. Yeah.  Great.  Excellent.  Excellent.  Just  keep  coming. This  is  the  thing  I  know,  you  know, there's  a  very  limited  time  you  had  about 12:10  to  12  minutes,  you  talk  to  each  other. But  the  whole  idea  is  to  get  started,  then  you'll  see, once  you  get  into  the  process, once  you  start  changing  one  thing  and then  you  start  generating  new  ideas, you  change  another  thing,  change  new  ideas. What  it  does  is  enhances  the  fluency  of  the  process. You  know,  as  what  you  were  saying, you  go  in  with  confidence  that  yes, I  can  make  some  changes. Even  if  I  have  no  idea  about  this, you  know,  situation,  not  this  problem. I  still  can  take  one  part  of  this  situation, change  it,  and  then  we'll see  is  new  ideas  will  start  to  flow. And  then  that  is  what  fluence  is. You'll  start  coming  up  with more  and  more  ideas,  and  we'll  see  you  know, again,  we'll  talk  to  more  people  and then  see  how  many  ideas  your  team  came  up  with. And  then  as  compared to  if  you  were  not  using  this  process, then  you'll  see  exactly  what  you  said. You  get  stuck  very  quickly. Yeah,  absolutely. Yeah.  All  right.  Thank  you,  Joe. Let's  go  to  Vini  hey, we  want  to  hear  from  more  people  too. So  I  want  to  see  more  hands,  please. All  right.  Thank  you. So  we  had  this  room  number  four, and  we  were  generating  ideas  left  and  right,  actually. So  like  he  said,  many  things  like  daycare, hotel  or,  you  know,  Uber. So  we  talked  about  Uber  office because  it  is  already  in  office,  right? So  why  not  to  lease  that  office  space to  individuals  who  don't want  to  work  from  home because  of  family  situation  or  whatever,  right. They  could  utilize  that  and  then  we  can  have a  scape  room  because  it  is a  complex  multi  floor  building, so  that  could  be  complex  games  also. Then  then  home  for  homeless, sleeve  the  building,  sell  the  building, scrap  the  building,  whatever. Those  kind  of  thing.  And  then  if  it  is left  alone  the  buildings  for  long, drug  dealers  can  quick  in  there and  then  they  can  make  their  own  home  there. I  know  that. Yeah.  Yeah,  that's  so  great. I  love  introducing  that  dimension  of  time,  right? So  one  of  the  things that  we  can  do  here  as  we  think  about  this,  right? So  you  might  think,  what  is  the  event? It's  sort  of,  you  know,  this  week  or  this  month  or, you  know,  is  this  long  term? Are  we  talking  about  vacant  office  space  for  years? Are  we  thinking  about  it  for  minutes,  right? And  so  you  had  that  idea  of,  you  know, Uber  for  office  space,  right?  So  we  work,  right? Maybe,  is  by  the  month  or,  you  know,  whatever, but  maybe  it's  like,  Hey,  you  know, you  need  a  desk  for,  you  know,  3  hours,  right? Come  on  in  for the  morning  and  we'll  work  with  you,  right? Yeah.  I  love  it.  I  love  it. And  so  really  shattering  that  sense  of, you  know,  what  is  the  scope  of  this  event? And  that  leads  you  in  different  directions. Is  this  quick? Is  this  long?  And,  you  know, what  kind  of  space  do  I  have? So  that  notion  of  sort  of  multi  level  office  space. Oh,  there's  complexity,  there's  richness. What  can  I  do  as  a  result  of  that? Was  if  I'm  just  thinking  about,  I  don't  know, my  exact  office,  maybe  that's  very  different, then  I'm  thinking  about  all  of  our  offices  across six  floors  in  this  building versus  if  I  think,  I  don't  know, about  all  20  buildings, you  know,  in  my  neighborhood,  you  know, in  my  city  or  something  like  that, and  that  might  lead  me  to even  more  ideas  that  I  had  initially,  right? So  by  thinking  about  scope  and  time  or  space, that  might  help  us  push our  perspectives  and  lead  to ideas  we  didn't  have  otherwise. So  I  love  that.  I  think  it's  really,  really  clever. And  also,  you  know,  we  start thinking  about  self  concepts. So  example,  you  know,  you  mentioned  an, you  let  it  sit  and  then  there would  be  drug  dealers  coming  in. I  mean,  what  you  can  do  is  you  can  start start  thinking  that  as  a  self  concept,  right? You  know,  okay,  maybe  we  will create  a  red  guard.  I  don't  know. Something  like  that.  So  take a  self  concept,  and  suddenly, what  you  have  is  a  whole  new  solution  space there  because  you  change  one  component, one  aspect  of  this  page. And  I  think  that's  the  beautiful  aspect of  pages  framework. And  then  as  we  were  saying, it  enhances  fluency, it  helps  you  come  up  with  more  ideas. We're  different  and  next  week  we'll talk  about  categorization  categorization. Yeah.  And  you'll  see  different  categories. I  think  Joel  was  talking  about  this  in, you  know,  different  categories  of  products, and  you  can  start  jumping  from  one  category  to another  using  this  frame  which  is  pretty  awesome. Thank  you,  Vin.  Let's  go  to  Nathan. We  came  up  with  a  lot  of  the  same  ideas. One  of  the  things  that  was  a  little  bit  different is  we  talked  about  reevaluating  the  y. Why  does  it  matter  for  the  space  to  be  fully  utilized? Like,  is  there  a  drop  in  productivity? Do  you  think  potentially the  younger  employees  are  not  being  trained? Or  is  it  just  the  old  perspective  of, you  need  to  be  there  nine  to  five, and  that's  the  way  business  is  done  because  you  know, different  people  are  going  to  have  different  needs. Personally,  I've  got  small  children, and  if  I  have  to  take  my  daughter  to a  doctor's  appointment  in  the  middle  of  the  day, I  can  get  at  least  an  hour  additional  work  in by  working  from  home  with my  workstation  there  where  I'm  fully  productive. Versus  having  to  drive  to  work and  double  my  commute  and  all  that. But  really  understand  maybe it  doesn't  need  to  be  more  people  in  the  office. There  is  other  things  you  could  do. I  mean,  you  could  always  give people  two  cubes  worth  of  space and  maybe  they'll  be  more  productive if  they  have  more  space  to  stretch  out  as  well. Those  are  some  of  the  things that  we  came  up  with  in  our  group. I  love  it.  So  really  pushing  on  the  goal  here, really  pushing  on  the  goal. So  is  vacant  office  space a  problem  or  maybe  it's  a  positive  Okay. And  maybe  that  allows  people who  do  benefit  from  coming  into  the  office, more  room  to  stretch  out,  and  maybe,  you  know, just  like  having  two  or  three  monitors  like  we  do  here, maybe  if  I  had  two  or  three  offices,  right? Really  interesting  things  could  happen, and  you  can  do  your  home  office  and  I  can really  stretch  out  around  here. So,  you  know,  and,  you  know, it's  not  just  about  getting  rid  of  it, right,  as  being  excess, so  we  can  all  work  from  home  and have  the  advantages  you  just  talked  about. Maybe  there  are  some  positives for  those  people  for  whom  it  really  makes  sense. And  maybe,  you  know,  most  days  you  work  at  home, but  maybe  on  the  days  when  you're  at  the  office, having  more  space  or  having  more  flexible  space  or having  different  kinds  of  space would  be  really,  really  appealing,  right? So  pushing  on  the  motivation, the  goal,  right,  the  why,  right? That  goal  aspect  of  your  perspective  can  help you  push  into  new  perspectives  and  new  ideas. Yeah.  And  then  what  you  also  did  here, if,  you  know,  Nathan, if  you  look  at  it  closely, you're  saying,  if  I  have  to  take  my  daughter,  right? So  the  thing  is  the  thing  is  you have  changed  the  self  concept, you  know,  we're  talking  about  this  office  space. And  certainly,  what  we're  saying  is self  concept  we  bring  in  of  a  parent. Now,  you  know,  would  it  make  sense?  What  can  we  do? So  now,  once  you  start  thinking  about  that  self  concept, then,  you  know,  whole  new  solution  space  opens  up. So  it's  okay  if  it  was  a  working  parent, if  we  keep  that  as  a  self  concept, then  what  can  we  do  with  office  space? Maybe,  you  know,  it  becomes  more  of  a  I  don't  know. You  know,  you  have  more  play  area or  something  like  that  so  that  you  can bring  kids  in  or  you just  open  up  space  for  kids,  something  like  that. Soda  most  of  the  time  when we  say  this  is  an  objective  perspective. So  the  thing  is,  I  know knowingly  I'm  changing  this  perspective. Also,  it  would  be  nice  for  us  to  be  conscious  about what  other  things  are  being changed  when  we  are  taking  this  new  perspective. And  suddenly  you  see  this  whole  new  solution  space new  ideas  would  start  to  come  in. And  that  is  where  essentially  the  fluency  comes  in. I  know  Gillian  Henry  was  talking  about  this. He  said,  Oh,  we  came  up  with  14  ideas, and  then  we  kind  of  got  stuck. And  then  what  we  saw, we  started  apply  pages  and we  came  up  with  seven  more  ideas. So  again,  that's  the  power  of  this  framework. And  then,  you  know,  what  I  would  want  to  do, and  I'm  going  to  come  back  to  you, Atika  in  a  minute  is  don't  this  brainstorming, too,  which  is  asking  you  to  use  these  pages. But  don't  stop  with  just  that  assignment, you  know,  in  your  workspace  at  your  home. When  you're  trying  to  come  up  with  an  idea to  sort  apply  this  to  your  everyday  life, start  using  this  framework in  how  you  do  things  going  forward. You  know,  I  would  encourage  you  to  do  that. Yeah,  yeah,  it  does  take some  practices  I  think  you've  experienced  here  today, but,  you  know,  once  you  start  to get  the  hang  of  it,  things  come  along. And  I  love  the  question  about  what  we're  doing with  empty  office  space  here  at  the  university. The  answer  is,  we  actually  are  building another  building  because  we're  out  of  office  space, and  we  need  more  offices  and  studio  space. So  yes,  we  need  more  studio  space. We  need  more  offices,  so  we're  building  another  building. But  I  hear  you. I  think  a  lot  of  what's  going  on especially  in  larger  cities  is  we  are  seeing the  work  from  home  effort transform  the  use  of office  space  and  the  conceptualization. I  don't  know.  Maybe  you  need  to  build more  studios  in  your  empty  office  space. So  that  you  can  come  in  and  have  really, really  great  setups  for your  online  meetings  when  you're  working, you  know,  on  really,  really  important  are  weird,  right? So  we  like  because  we  want to  come  to  office  when  students  are  not  around. A  lot  of  people  are  not  around. We  can  sit  in  our  office, get  our  research  done, so  you  got  a  little  kind  of  that. No,  no,  no.  It's  wonderful to  be  on  campus,  no  matter  what. No  matter  what.  It's  great  to  be  here. Now,  there's  a  lot  of  energy  in  life. That's  the  joy  of  it.  For  sure. For  sure.  All  right.  We  want  to  hear  from  Attica. Yes,  please. Professor,  so  I  was  part  of  Room  seven. We  discussed,  I  think, similar  ideas  around  leveraging the  office  space  for  different  purposes. So  whether  it's  play  area, you  know,  doing  more  employee  engagement, maybe  having  small  community  events, and  also  like  subleasing  it. And  actually,  one  idea  was  around converting  them  into  residential  apartments. So  kind  of  doing  a  mix  of, you  know,  you  know, office  spaces  into  residential. I  think  one  of  the  perspectives that  we  had  goes  around  public  officials, which  I  kind  of  posted  in  the  comment  that, you  know,  I  think  from  what  I  hear  about  the  cities, at  least  the  ones  which  are  very  busy, that  their  ecosystem  is, you  know,  around  people  coming  to  the  office, and  I  think  it  also  drives how  many  younger  people  actually  live in  the  city  because  the  overall  vibrancy  goes  down. So  how  do  I  think  that's where  I  sort  of  personally  struggle  like, how  do  you  kind  of  use  the  pages  framework because  I  understand  the  self  concept from  a  public  official, but  not  really  like, how  do  you  kind  of  plan  out? You  know,  you  use  the  pages  framework  fully, I  guess,  to  flush  out  the  idea  for  it. Yeah.  Oh,  that's  a  great  question. So  let's  push  on  this  one  a  little  bit,  right? Let's  do  this  together  right  here  right  now and  see  if  we  can  make  some  progress. So  we're  seeing  vacant  office  space  in  cities, driving  down  people  coming  into, you  know,  downtown  areas  or  something  like  that. And  then  that  means  all  the  sort  of  businesses  and  all the  life  that  thrives around  having  that  network  of  people, you  know,  come  in  every  day  goes  away. So  the  places  where  you  might get  lunch  or  the  places  where  you  might  get coffee  or  the  places  you  might  have a  drink  after  work  or,  you  know,  whatever,  right? All  those  businesses, the  shopping  you  might  do,  you  know, before  or  after  our  lunch  breaks  or  whatever, you  know,  there's  no  one  there because  everyone's  working  from  home. So  what  do  you  do?  So  maybe  what  you do  is  you  think  about  how  can  you,  you  know, use  some  of  that  office  space  and  provide space  to  people  who  might really  welcome  the  space  or  really  need  it. Um,  but  not  be  able to  afford  it  or  make  use  of  it  in  other  ways,  right? So  that  could  be  an  example,  right? So  if  I  think  through  what  is  the  self  concept of  someone  who  could  really  benefit  from  that  livelihood, why  would  they  feel  threatened? What  goals  might  they  have? How  could  I  satisfy  those  goals with  certain  parts  or  certain  actions? What  is  the  event  that  might  draw  their  attention,  right? So  those  are  ways  in  which  we  can  use pages  to  help  push  and  developing that  perspective  in  order  to  see  whether  we  can start  generating  solutions  off  of  that  perspective. Absolutely.  And  then  I  was  going  to  say this  what  Michelle  is  talking  about  here. The  thing  is,  again,  I  think  you  were  talking  about, you  know,  people  have  to  travel  to  office, and  we  talk  about  bigger  cities, I  saw  someone  about  New  York  City. So  again,  you  know, if  we  start  taking  perspective  of  self  concept  of this  person  who  has  to travel  your  longer  distance  to  come  to  office, maybe  half  the  building  is  residential  building. And  then  your  office,  you  take the  elevator  to  your  office,  right? But  again,  the  whole  idea  here  is how  pages  would  work  is  take  this  self  concept  and  say, what  problem  are  we  trying  to  solve. Now  here,  you're  also  you  know, again,  we  talked  about  solution  space, and  that  is  what  we  have  been  talking  about. But  what  we  did  was  we  jump  onto  a  new  problem  space. Now  the  thing  is,  you  know, what  is  happening  is  an  employee  who  has  to  take, you  know,  has  to  travel longer  distance  to  come  to  office, then  there's  another  problem  there. There's  this  traffic  problem, there's  this  public  transport  problem, transportation  problem,  gas  all  those  things. So  you  say,  again,  if  we  are  trying  to solve  this  vacancy  problem  and  that, can  we  combine  these  two  problems  together? And  then  what  could  be  our  solution  and that  cause  us  to  give  you  more  creative  ideas. Once  again,  And  another  thing, I  think,  Hersh  was  asking? I  think  it  was  Hersh  was  talking  about, can  perspectives  be  driven  by  goals? Yeah.  Sure.  Sure.  Absolutely.  Yeah.  I  mean, you  can  think  about  different  aspects of  perspectives  as  being  your  anchor,  right? So  maybe  the  goal  is  the  most  important  thing,  right? So  maybe  it's  maximizing, you  know,  people  coming  through  the  office. And  so,  right,  what  would  get as  many  people  as  possible  into  the  office? And  so  everything  else  can sort  of  dance  around  that,  right? And  we  talked  about,  you  know,  could  we  have Social  events  or,  you  know,  et  cetera,  right? As  ways  to  think  about,  you  know, maybe  how  we  maximize the  number  of  people  through  the  office. So  that  would  be  that  goal  and  that  sort  of  dominates. But  you  could  also  take  a  self  concept,  right? So,  what  if,  you  know, I'm  a  young  person  who lives  in  a  tiny  apartment  that's  really  unpleasant, and  I  wish  I  had  somewhere  else  to  go,  right? And  so  that  self  concept  could sort  of  drive  everything  else. And  then  we  could  think  about  what  are the  attending  goals  and events  and  actions  and  so  forth  that  follow, or  we  can  be  really  rooted  on  parts,  right? So  we've  talked  about  offices generically,  but  I  don't  know, maybe  it's  about  desks  and  chairs  or  maybe  it's  about, you  know,  actual  resources  to  get  work  done,  right? So  manufacturing  is  different than  marketing  is  different  than, you  know,  design  or,  you  know,  whatever,  right? So  maybe  there  are  different  specific  resources that  are  available  in  certain  places, and  those  are  really  important. So  let's  zoom  in  on  office  and  get  more  specific. About  what  some  of  those  resources  are, and  by  focusing  on  those  parts, maybe  that  allows  us  to  then  think  of new  goals  or  think  of  new  self  concepts  and  so  forth. So  part  of  the  reason  that  we  have all  these  different  aspects  of  pages,  five,  not  too  many, but  enough,  is  to  help  us  push  our  thinking in  different  directions  by jumping  from  one  aspect  to  another. So  let's  push  on  parts  for a  while  and  then  let's  maybe  shift  to  goals, and  then  maybe  we  shift  to  self  concept, and  and  so  on. And  that  way  we  avoid  getting  stuck, and  we  also  allow  ourselves  to  explore different  the  full  sort  of  space,  right? The  whole  point  here  is,  how  do  we  increase your  fluency  at  imagining  different  perspectives  so that  you  generate  different  kinds  of  ideas so  that  ultimately  you're  left  with  this  lovely  set of  ideas  that  are  quite different  from  one  another  and  allow you  to  explore  different  kinds  of problems  and  different  kinds  of  solutions. Right.  So  I  think  we kind  of  addressed  the  question  you  were  raised? Did  we  put  it  there. Yeah.  I  wonder.  Something  that,  you  know, it's  so  it  does  seem this  kind  of  sponsor  to  another  problem. It's  not  really  linked  to  the  office  space  because  one  of the  things  that  kind  of  come  to my  mind  is  also  around  public  transportation. Because,  you  know,  if  people  are  using  it  less, you  know,  they  have  less  funding, and  then  it  doesn't  improve  the  system. So  infrastructure  gets  negatively impacted,  you  know,  so  yes, there's  a  concept  around  overcrowding  as  well because  I  think  New  York  City  is  trying  to address  that  through  tariffs  and  stuff  like  that. But  then  how  do  you  kind of  address  the  public  transportation. So  from  what  I  understood, it's  like  spans  of  a separate  problem  altogether  because  of  this. Yeah.  But,  this  is, I  guess,  what  can  be  interesting  about  this,  right, is  that  if  you  start  out  with  vacant  office  space, and  then  you  get  to  the  real  issue is  public  transportation,  right? So  now,  it's  like,  wait  a  minute,  right? And  not  everyone  went  in  that  direction,  right? So  I  might  have  gone  in  a  very  different  direction with  vacant  office  space  than, you  know,  needing  to  think  hard about  public  transportation. And  so,  yeah,  at  some  point, you  might  want  to  say,  You  know  what, wait  a  minute,  we've  wandered  away  from  our  problem. We  can't  really  address  that,  or  no, it  turns  out  that  we  think  these  things  are  so  tightly connected  that  actually  unless we  start  talking  about  public  transportation, we're  not  really  going  to  be  able  to  address, the  vacant  office  based  problem  in a  way  that's  sort  of  fruitful,  right? And  so  part  of  this  is  thinking,  you  know, systems  thinking  and  thinking about  how  the  pieces  come  together, and  the  different  perspectives  might  lead you  to  make  different  kinds  of  connections. So  is  it  about,  you  know, what  is  the  culture  and  our  organization? And  can  we  create  the  kind  of  culture  we  want if  we're  not  in  the  office  and what  kinds  of  different  activities? Or  are  we  thinking  about  how  do  we  have healthy  cities  and  healthy  urban  environments, and  then  we  think  about  pubic  transportation and  parks  and  and,  you  know, all  the  businesses  that  thrive  off  of the  office  communities  where people  are  coming  in  and  spending  money,  right? So  very  different  directions by  taking  our  perspectives  in  these  different  ways, it  leads  us  to  think  about  very different  possibilities  and  ideas. And  that's  kind  of  our  point,  right? Is  that  this  task of  thinking  through  pages  is  intended  to  guide  you to  go  off  in  these  different  directions rather  than  focus  on one  and  just  hunker  down there  and  not  consider  any  of  the  others. So  it's  delightful  to  hear  that your  different  conversations  ended up  going  off  in  these  different  directions. That  was  really  our  aspiration,  right? That  you  might  have  gotten  to, you  know,  how  do  I  have  laser  tag  and, you  know,  childcare  and  public  transportation  issues, you  know,  and  we  work,  right? I  mean,  you  know,  that's  kind  of  the  point  is that  you're  going  off  in  all  these  different  directions, and  pages  is  sort  of  starting  to  help  you  do  that. Right.  So  thank  you,  Atika  Another thing,  you  know,  perch. What  you're  saying,  is  it  seems like  pages  is  very  flexible. I  can  start  from  anywhere  and  fill  in. Sounds  like  there's  no  one  way  to  be  correct. Now  the  thing  is,  I  don't  know, Jeff  but  there's  nothing  about  being  correct. Yeah.  Yeah.  The  thing  is  it  is about  gerations  about  coming  up  with  new  perspectives. Again,  I  think  the  question,  if  I'm  understanding  it, precas  really  observation  is that  you  can  start  with  parts.  And  then  yeah  you  know, Somewhere  else  or  you  could  start  with self  concept  and  head  somewhere  else. And  that's  absolutely  the  case, you  should  take  ownership  of  this  process. These  are  jumping  off  points, and  all  I  think  we  are  recommending  is  that  don't just  focus  on  parts  or  don't  just  focus  on  self  concept. If  you  start  with  parts,  great, but  then  try  actions  and  then  try  events. If  you  start  with  self  concept,  great. Now  try  goals  and  see  where  that  leads  you. So  the  idea  in  introducing  this  is  to encourage  to  not  just  dwell  on  any  one? And  a  lot  of  us  intuitively tend  to  focus  on  one  of  these. So  I  find  when  I  talk  to  people  who  feel like  I  have  a  brains  iron  process  and  it  works  for  me, what  they  tend  to  do  is  pick  one  or  two  of  these  and focus  on  that  and  maybe  neglect  the  others. And  so  part  of  the  reason  we  put pages  together,  building  on,  I  don't  know, about  70  years  of  research  on how  people  think  and  generate  new  ideas  was precisely  to  try  and  encourage  you  in a  manageable  way  to  explore these  very  different  aspects  of  your  perspectives. Do  you  go  off  in these  different  directions  rather  than just  get  anchored  on  any  one  of  them. And  that  also  means  you  can  have one  self  concept  and you  can  have  say  ten  different  parts, or  you  can  have  four  different  goals. So  think  is  with  this. And  then  it's  not  that  you're  just changing  every  you  can  play  I  think that's  your  a  flexible  framework or  the  framework  is  not  flexible. It  gives  you  flexibility. It  gives  you  flexibility  to  think  broadly  differently. I  think  that  is  what  this  framework. That  is  what  the  value  of  this  framework  is.  Yeah. Jason,  to  your  point,  first  ideas are  rarely  the  best  ideas. And  so  if  we  can  help  you  be  more  confident  with this  process  and  help  you  be more  fluent  in  generating  new  ideas, then  you're  going  to  persist and  stick  around  to  get  the  later, really  interesting  ideas  rather  than stop  at  the  first  idea  that's  not  terrible, which  I  see  so  often,  right? And  people  who  are  really  struggling  with  brainstorming. It's  like,  Look  I  had  four  ideas,  it's  enough. I'm  exhausted.  One  of  these,  I  hope  is  good  enough. And  rather  than  convincing yourself  that  your  third  or  fourth  idea  is  good  enough, If  we  make  it  easier  to  generate your  12th  or  your  23rd  idea, then  you're  more  likely  to have  a  collection  of  things  that  are really  interesting  to  play  with  and  to  run  from  there. And,  you  know,  that  lesson  from  Robbie,  right, that  that  way  out  there  idea  is  much  easier  to  bring  back and  make  reasonable  to  work  with rather  than  hoping  that  your  sort  of  reasonable, conventional  idea  is  somehow  one  you could  push  or  stretch  to  be  more  unusual. That  doesn't  usually  work  that  way. So  I'd  rather  have  you  come  up  with  lots  of out  there  ideas  because  an  out  there  idea, I  mean,  we  gave  you  the  Bertaz  chemistry  example,  right? You  know,  that  sugars  were  anything  interesting  you  know, on  the  outside  of  cells,  like,  you  know, most  people  fought  like,  no, there's  nothing  interesting  there,  right? So  that  way  out  idea turned  out  to  be  a  Nobel  Prize  winning  idea, right,  because  people  explored  it. And  so  what  might  seem  to  you in  your  brainstorming  session  to  be  a  way  out  idea, After  you  push  it  and  work  on  it, might  turn  out  to  be  something  that  makes  a  ton  of  sense. You  just  hadn't  had  the  perspective  by  which  it  made sense  yet  when  you  generated  it  initially. I  see,  this  is  and  I'm  loving  this. I  know  coming  to  time  start  wrapping  up. But,  you  know,  these  ideas  that are  coming  up  now,  you  know,  someone  said, I  think  Joel  mentioned,  you  know, homeless  shelter  and  Jay  brought  in, you  know,  why  don't  you  grow  food  there? So,  you  know,  you  also  have  job  shelter. I  mean,  again,  this  is  the  beauty  of  this  framework. Once  you  start  going  on,  and  that is  what  we  were  talking  about  the  fluency, you  know,  once  you  take  thinking and  you  start  changing  things. And  about  goals,  about  events. So  someone  saying,  Can  we  just  you  know, climate  change  problem  that  Again, now  you're  thinking  very  high  level like  an  even  broader  goal  here. And  then  again,  this  is a  very  small  problem  we  started  with, but  see  where  it  took  you. Again,  we  shouldn't  go that  much  far  out  of  that  cannot  come  back  in. But  absolutely,  I  know,  but  it  takes  you  there, see  how  you  can  solve  those  problems and  we  talked  to  Atika  about, for  example,  transportation  problems. So  in  the  end, I  think  in  summary, this  is  a  powerful  framework. Okay.  And  I  would  say,  you  know, don't  just  stop  using  after  you  finish  your  assignment, and,  you  know,  this  is  an  assignment. I've  used  this  and  you're  done? Please  you  know,  start incorporating  it  in  your  everyday  life, you're  at  work,  you  know,  you  facing  a  problem, see  how  you  can  change  something  or  you  know, if  you're  convincing  something to  accompany  you  to  a  dinner, and  they're  saying,  No,  see,  you  know, how  can  you  C  creative  parts,  can  you  change? Can  you  change  the  restaurant?  Can  you  change  the  sin? Can  you  change  I  mean, think  about  this  and  see  if  you  are  successful, can  you  come  up  with  more  creative  idea?  Want  to  do? I  want  to  pick  up  on  Jay's  point  about, you  know,  the  Departments  of. So  many  organizations  have  one  or  more  departments  of. It's  often  legal  or  compliance,  finance,  sometimes. And  what  was  interesting  to  me  when  I  first really  started  working  on  creativity  is  that  the The  units  in  companies  that  contacted  me first  for  creativity  training  were  legal  compliance. It  was  the  Department  of  K  because a  lot  of  them  don't  want  to  be  the  Department  of  No. They  want  to  be  the  problem  solver, they  want  to  get  involved  when the  problem  is  just  being  set  so that  their  criteria  can  be  included, and  they  can  be  part  of  the  constraints that  shape  the  solutions that  are  actually  productive  and  useful  and  valuable rather  than  have  people  get  creative by  going  around  them. Or  ignoring  them  or  avoiding  them,  right? Because  that  really  causes lots  and  lots  of  problems  in  companies, and  it  wastes  a  lot  of  time,  right? To  what  you  think  is  a  great  solution, only  to  have  legal  or  finance  or  whatever  kill your  solution  because  it  doesn't  meet a  criterion  you  didn't  know  existed. So  the  main  reason  that  we're  starting  with your  creativity  is  precisely  because no  matter  where  you  are  in  your  organization, if  you  can  think  more  flexibly  and  creatively, then  you  are  more  likely  to  get  you  know, if  you  show  that  to  other  people  in  your  organization, you're  more  likely  to  be  invited into  the  conversation  early. And  so  you  don't  have  to  be  the Department  of  No  and  all  of  that. You  can  help  people  create  solutions  that  are really  viable  and  implementable  and  worthwhile, rather  than  have  to  come  in  to  the  end  and  say, I'm  really  sorry,  but  this  isn't  going  to  work. Or  I'm  just  not  sorry. It's  not  going  to  work.  Right.  And  so that  is  something  that's part  of  your  own  tool  kit,  right? Your  own  set  of  capabilities  that  you  can  apply, again,  no  matter  what  it  is  you're  actually  working  on. Right.  And  then  we're  going  to  talk  about this  Clement  is  talking  and  say,  you  know, I  know  it's  funny  sense  she's  saying, you  know,  all  we  need  is  the  world  to  listen  to  us. And  as  we  go  through  this  course, we  will  talk  about  that. How  can  we  make  you  know, Coming  up  with  creative  ideas  is  one  thing. It  is  a  starting  point. But  then  how  do  you  make people  listen  to  your  creative  ideas? How  do  you  get  them  on  board. And  we  will  talk  about  that  as we  go  through  the  discourse. So  please  stay  with  us. Thank  we'll  get  there. I  wrap  up.  Time  to  wrap  up. So  obviously,  our  goal  here  is  to  help you  think  about  the  creative  process  and develop  your  skills  at  going  through  it. And  we  first  talked  about cues  and  how  can  you  get  to  be  more sensitized  to  the  cues  that  you're  experiencing  and take  the  invitation  they're  offering you  to  go  into  the  creative  process. And  then,  second,  Um, when  I'm  in  that  creative  process  and  I'm trying  to  generate  alternative  perspectives, so  I  can  generate  new  inventions, I  can  generate  new  enlightenments,  right? How  pages  can  be  part  of  that  process? Can  I  break  my  current  perspective  down? Can  I  see  what's  positive  about  it  and what's  leading  to  some  initial  ideas, and  then  can  I  modify  it? Can  I  change  something in  my  current  pages  and  have  that  send  me off  in  another  direction  and  then cycle  back  and  change  a  different  aspect  of  pages. And  that  process  of  cycling  through different  aspects  of  pages  and  changing  them  to change  your  perspective  turns  out  to be  a  way  that  many  people  find  helps them  fluently  and  efficiently  generate different  perspectives  and  therefore,  new  ideas. And  that's  really  what  we're  trying  to  do  today. Absolutely.  Alright,  so  I think  we  are  going  to  wrap  up  this  session. So  only  thing,  again, I  think  I've  already  said  this  twice, please  please  start  applying  again, and  this  is  not  only  for  this  session, you  know,  in  the  weeks,  as  we  move  forward, we'll  give  you  some  tools, we'll  give  you  some  concepts, start  applying  them  out  to your  real  life,  your  work  life. Creativity  that's  the  beauty  of  creativity. It  is  not  only  about  your  workspace. It  is  about  your  everyday  life. Every  small  little  thing,  you're  you  know, trying  to  come  up  with  a  new recipe  or  you're  trying  to  create dinner  or  new  everywhere  you  can  apply  creativity, and  start  applying  these  concepts, start  applying  these  frameworks. And  see,  you  know,  what  you  get  out  of  that. And  then  please  come  back.  Tell  us  your  story. So  to  hear  more  about  this. Excellent.  Thanks  for  a  great  conversation  today. I  know  we've  sprung  a  lot  on  you  today, and  we  look  forward  to  making  the  most  of it  in  the  weeks  ahead.  Have  a  great  week. All  right.  See  you  next  week.  Thank  you.