please bullet summary this 

is it lucrative to be a songwriter today with streaming no no it's really bad think of the biggest pop artists on the planet then think of your favorite songs that they sing odds are Justin tranton right here wrote those songs I feel like a big piece that people don't know about the music industry is how payment works it doesn't I have been very very fortunate because I have had radio hits I live a secure life and I can take care of my parents for songwriters that don't have songs on the radio there's songs that will have 300 million streams but weren't on radio and I maybe maybe my band was dropped from four record deals so when I finally had the business working somewhat on my side I was writing 12 Songs a week day sessions night sessions everything I think most people would assume like Justin Bieber sorry it's probably my highest earner it's nowhere close because I know your followers are very like business interested people so why not just be honest about the business I'm with the one and only Justin trantor hello a legend the king of tick tock music here teaching us all how to exist I mean so much I appreciate that but Justin I gotta say uh for those of you who don't know Justin is one of the greatest songwriters one of the greatest pop songwriters today in my opinion um wow written massive songs um why don't you tell them a little bit about some of your favorites you've written so far sure um some of my favorites are believer Imagine Dragons [Applause] uh Selena Gomez good for you my hands to myself why would I want to lose you to love me incredible cake by the ocean a Halsey bad at love the list goes on and on and on [Music] very very very lucky with an insane amount of hard work but luck does need to come with that too speaking of hard work you have been in the game for quite a long time a million years I'm happily proudly a thousand years old one thousand mark it down how many songs did you write before you had your first placement um so it's a little that's a tricky question because I started rain songs at 15. and my first placement was when I was 33 or 34. I came out when I was 34. I can't remember what time of year they actually cut it but so I was reading songs since I was 15. but I always want to be a singer-songwriter so when I first started it was like you know I was the kid of the 90s so all of the amazing female singer songwriters like Annie DeFranco Tori Amos Kate Bush who's now a current pop star again which is the coolest thing that's ever [ __ ] happened to anyone mainly her fans were all like dead now in a good way I love it um so that was my first Vision but then in like 2005 six I started a sort of like Glam Rock Revival band and so it was in my band called semi-punched weapons for years and years and years writing all the songs for the most part by myself and so long story not short at all there was I wrote a lot of [ __ ] songs but I was only trying to write songs with and for other people for about a year before my first big placement came out um it was only about three months till someone cut us on Kelly Clarkson got a song called nostalgic about three months into it and the funny part is that I thought I was a [ __ ] failure because in that three months you know my publisher probably sent out 30 songs that all were no no no no no no even though I haven't dropped from four record deals which is a lot of rejection and disappointment it's not like a no every day as a songwriter it's a no every [ __ ] day I still get those most of the time you know so that rejection I wasn't used to I was like I must be bad at this I should probably just like put more energy into my bands while we look for a new deal like because at least our shows people loved our show so that was always like there's something good here anyway now that I know this side of the business a lot better three months is a very short amount of time to get a cut and then it was like a year until I had a hit did you get a publishing deal like three months prior or did you my my band had a publishing deal okay and so I got really um lucky which is going to sound crazy but it'll make sense in a second I got lucky that the guy that signed the ban into our publishing deal left the company which was normally the kiss of death when the person that loves you leads the company but for me it was amazing so he left the company and um the band's last album we made it with a guy named Tricky Stewart who did umbrella Single Ladies baby Justin Bieber he's a genius the new Beyonce song um break my soul yeah tricky and dream yeah um I faced time to the night it came out I was so excited um and so he had always said to me like you're a really great [ __ ] pop songwriter you're in a rock band and we're like the arrangements sound like rock or alternative whatever you want to call it but like these are pop songs you should think about that so when my publisher left the company and someone new got brought in I was like Hey can anyone put me in sessions to write for other people like pretty sure we're about to get dropped from epic which would have been our fourth drop um like they took our name off their website which is not a good side while you were still signing with me while we were still assigned to them um wow so can someone put me in sessions and so they did they started putting me in sessions and um I guess I was really good at it and I was really good at people um and so people kept asking me back because they had such a great time and they felt so safe and they felt like they could talk about [ __ ] they normally can't talk about and so that was it so again as I said long story not short I probably wrote a thousand songs to my first placement but it's a pop writer it was a very short amount of time incredible I I've heard that you kind of started out in those first three months in the beginning you start off writing very generic songs yeah and when you let in later it went a lot more specific so when I first started writing it was not we were still in like the wake of like DJ hell do you know what I mean like it was like some amazing songs came out of DJ hell like Titanium Sia David Guetta that's an exception that's not dj hell but we were still in like DJ hell where like every big song was just like a DJ situation I just rephrase that the people who were accepting outside songs like Katy Perry Gaga all those people co-wrote their own songs right Taylor Swift it's all they're all they're all in their own camps you can't send them a song so the only people that were accepting outside songs of the time were DJs so I was just like trying to write some generic DJ hit um which is not music that I listen to or know about or like so the first one I ever wrote in a pop session that I actually liked um and like really enjoyed singing the demo was Kelly Clarkson's nostalgic so it was much more specific it was much more specific and it's almost like if you listen to It's like an 80s dream alternative pop rock song like it's not like a traditional pop song at all sonically we're on the backing track of that one too and I'll actually know she could change the keys I'm not in the back of that song because she took the key up for her but um my original demo is is it out there iconic no but I'm sure I have it on my phone somewhere but um it's iconic I sound amazing I believe it but so that was the first time I felt like yeah I actually like this song this song is [ __ ] great and then like a week later Kelly Clarkson cut it um but it didn't come out right away no she got pregnant which good for her but crushed my soul because I was telling everyone oh my God I got my first cut and it's with Kelly Clarkson and like I'm I had like a big Kelly Clarkson Super Fan era for that second album with all the amazing since you've been gone was the first one but that whole album the stuff she did with with the Matrix and all those amazing it was unbelievable the ones on the um Avril co-wrote Masterpiece anyway break away so incredible so I was so excited and I'm telling everyone in my whole life that like Kelly Clarkson cut a song but then like it didn't come out for like two or three years because of her life which is fine but it wasn't fine for me but this this was this was the part that was so crazy to me your first placement was your first big hit right the first song that came out right so Kelly was the first cut or placed in living room call but the first time that was released to the world was also my first hit yes which was Fallout Boy Centuries [Music] so that being said I feel like a big piece that people don't know about the music industry is at least for songwriters is how payment works so in terms of like it doesn't [Laughter] there there's uh it's broken how does it actually work how do songwriters get paid and what can the music industry do for the future if it's not great to change that yeah so basically now the only way songwriters get paid is if a song is on the radio um and so I have been very very fortunate um not that I'm counting any streaming not that I'm counting but I have like 16 radio hits but um and I obviously I'm counting that with a joke but there's no studio audience here so the joke didn't land but trust me it was great but um very very fortunate that because of I have had Radiohead I live a beautiful secure life and I can take care of my parents for songwriters that don't have songs on the radio there's the songs that I will have that will have 300 million streams but weren't on radio and I maybe make like six thousand dollars um which is really really really really really bad right so if you're a new songwriter and you can't believe that you've just got an album cut with Ariana you got an album cut with Jonas Brothers and like holy [ __ ] and there's all these streams and every it's nuts but it didn't go to Radio you can't survive on right because you gotta write a couple let's say you got to write 100 songs so you get one that's that's good enough or not even good enough it's lucky that's good enough and lucky enough to like make the album and fit in the album's vision get on the album and that song makes you six thousand dollars which is you because you can't a lot of amazing songwriters do have day jobs but then they're gonna like not be able to go to sessions they need to go to and so you get your advance and then like if you don't have a radio hit within the first two years of that Advance the advance is gone and then you're [ __ ] um so it's a really big problem so there was a lot of movement in Washington and the law did get passed to increase our payment on streaming but now then all the big streamers besides Apple music all the other big streamers locked arms and have been repealing it so the law is frozen so no one's making money on it because it's still in like it's terrible I'm not a lawyer but I think it's like in the court of appeals or whatever that's called don't quote me on that some you'll probably Google it and know much better and you'll educate me tomorrow but it's frozen so we got that pay increase but no one's seen it because it's frozen is it lucrative to be a songwriter today with streaming no no it's really bad um and you know as As radio is now radio radio used to be a big way to break songs and be the leader um and for there's always exceptions right there's always exceptions but for the most part now radio is following what's happening on Tick Tock and following what's happening on streaming um so it's like it has to be an absolute perfect world for a song to either go viral on Tick Tock or get enough love that Spotify playlisting that labels feel confident enough to take it to radium that radio is going to actually follow through on it in terms of the the three different I'm just curious about this because I was I was doing research on it yeah and there was like performance royalties like live performance royalties there's like playing on the radio and they're streaming those are the three ways it's only when songwriters only get paid when they actually get a song out into the world is that right correct yeah so songwriters you get your published if you go to if you have a publishing deal you get you publish in advance and then but the only way you can recoup that advance and then make more money is Radio play live performance play like people performing in concerts but the concerts have to be if the people aren't in like at least 5 000 cap capacity right or you're not going to see a penny from a live show if someone's playing the Troubadour no songwriters getting paid from that show you know um so and then film and TV syncs it's a big big way to make money 100 so um I've been very very fortunate that a couple of my songs specifically cake by the ocean and believer Imagine Dragons they were radio songs which is great but they also have synced like [ __ ] crazy to Nintendo commercials to telephone commercial just like nuts so on the business business side of things I think most people would assume like Justin Bieber's sorry it's probably my highest earner it's nowhere close because it wasn't synced anywhere now culturally that song changed my life and it's made me cool forever um but financially it's not um because I know your followers are very like business interested people so why not just be honest about the business like it's it's if you can have a hit that's on the radio but then also get synced on film and TV like crazy it's literally life-changing which is why for my Publishing Company we're building out a whole film and TV Department love it and we're doing the the new TV show called Grease rise of the Pink Ladies which is the prequel to Greece there's like over 30 original songs in the show so all written by people signed to me well it's me I'm a co-writer on all of it but then we have I have four other writers that are signed to me that are are swapping out places to to finish to write the songs with me so it's a way that while they're waiting for their big radio hits I can make sure the writers sign to me actually can pay their rent and can actually eat where most pop Publishers give you your advance and then just like okay let's pray you get a hit in the radio in the next two years else you're gonna have to go work at Starbucks how often are you in the studio or like songwriters you work with every day kind of thing is it like a five days a week like 40 hours kind of thing I would say I aim for five days a week to be in the studio and I aim to like only work from like 1 pm to seven uh writing right um reality is I probably end up working six days a week and at least three of those days I end up doing the double session um because something comes up and I just don't want to [ __ ] say no to or um with all the cool film and TV stuff I'm doing the deadlines are like serious because they have to go shoot a [ __ ] scene for sure right like if it's a pop star it's like they don't even really make a release plan until like they have the master in their hands right they're not gonna like pick a release date and they don't have a master yet we're filming TV it's like we're shooting the scene [ __ ] tomorrow go fix this right now which is actually kind of fun but when it was first coming up I was 100 doing double sessions every day six days a week like every [ __ ] day um now some of those would cancel and it would like be so exciting like get to go see my friends on like a Wednesday night which would never happen normally um but yeah it was it was I had been beat down so much by this business that once the door like finally cracked open I was like I might not be the best songwriter but I can be the best collab writer and I can be the hardest worker ever like no one right whoever's the best songwriter that's that's uh everyone has a different opinion of that right no one can have an opinion about how hard I work and so that was like I'll just go into every [ __ ] session and no one can stop me um and I did and I really learned how to be so good with people um which I take just as seriously as writing the songs yeah yeah it sounds like a lot of your conversations lead to the actual songwriting yes from the sessions they really do it's it's my favorite way to find the song because then the artist is gonna then just feel like this song is theirs and only theirs and like no one else could sing it because I literally took the at least the title if not a bunch of sentences um a great example of that the most extreme example is probably um Dixie Chicks sorry the chicks now [Applause] [Music] sleep at night how do you sleeping now and if you listen to the first verse uh I literally took exactly what Natalie said to me and said it to a melody and Teddy Geiger who was co-writing and producing the session with us like amazing songwriters [ __ ] she's just unbelievable Teddy was like are we really gonna put all of that just truth in the song my husband's girlfriend's husband just called me how messed up is that she's like I don't see why not so I do that a lot it's happened in many many songs but that's the most extreme example if you want to like look at how ridiculous I can get about like taking the artist's actual words and heart and putting it into the song um we talked a lot about uh earlier about the different stories behind your songs yeah and I I had a I had a question I have a selfish question for me I can't wait um so I'm trying like show different process different processes of the music industry yeah in a cool behind the scenes way one of them is to land a placement as a songwriter okay so to go about doing that what would you recommend being the first step and to to get to that place I mean there's there's this there's a a thousand ways to do it right the one way to do it is to however you can get yourself to a publisher right now that can be tricky but um I got to a publisher because my band was so massive in New York City and only in New York City that it ended up getting bigger other places but in that that labels and Publishers came to us because I built this whole world inside of it so my way into the music business was through um building my bands right so that's different if you're just trying to be a songwriter later I'll use the examples of songwriters that I have signed to my Publishing Company um which are um Brendan colbain unbelievable [ __ ] songwriter like his Melodies just like make me want to die in all the right ways and he actually covered sorry on his YouTube channel and it was one of the most beautiful vocal performances I ever heard my whole life [Music] I think he tagged me on an Instagram or something whatever and I do get tagged in so many things and get so many messages that I normally miss it but I saw that one um and I just like commented like you're [ __ ] amazing um and then like he messaged me and he was like actually like I'm trying to be a songwriter like I want to do artist stuff and like but that's not I want to be a songwriter can I send you songs and he did and they were amazing so then we signed him but then it still takes a while to get him a cut right so that's a great example of like you have to put your music out there 100 for people to see it so as a songwriter or a producer find any way you can to put your music out there um because how else are people going to hear it you know so and B don't be annoying don't be one of the people that like tags every songwriter on the planet or every producer on the planet or every publisher on the planet like tag people and message people who like you think would actually like what you're doing right like um if you're like doing super cool Indie pop things tag and message Publishers who do super cool Indie pop things tag bigger songwriters to like like even though I do I've been fortunate to write some big mainstream hits like it's pretty clear that the songs that I'm a part of do lean like a little bit left of center the history of me being in a band opening up for opening up for Lady Gaga it's clear to see what kind of stuff I'm gonna like or also like you know I'm a huge lgbtq activist I'm on the board of glad so like if you're queer I'm probably gonna listen just because I want to like open doors for other queer people because every [ __ ] girl was closed to me for so long so be smart about who you harass on the internet would you say in order to become a successful songwriter you need a publishing deal well you know nowadays with social media owning everything um I am sure there are ways to get there without it um I I know for a fact actually uh Bebe rexa who's I mentioned you before I think is one of the most underrated artists of our time such a songwriter such a [ __ ] singer like vocalist [Music] she's on Tick Tock all day oh yeah sending me like oh did you hear this song did you hear that song did you hear like oh this girl's a songwriter like she's not trying to be an artist like listen to this [ __ ] song like you should check like people are paying attention so there are ways to get two people and artists without a publishing deal but I've been at Warner Chapel for 13 years now um so I have said publishing deals have been great for me but when I was coming up it wasn't an option like there was maybe Myspace you know like my band did great in Myspace and that was awesome and I like emailed Perez Hilton enough times so he like finally posted a video um this is a whole other story but um with that um there are ways to get there without a publishing deal are there ways to make noise on the internet to get you the publishing deal 100 speaking of the internet you were one of the people who said early on you said the radio is dying and that the internet is taking over you said that back in 2016. which I think a lot of people did say but yeah with that being the case did you ever see Tick Tock and and how do you feel about Tick Tock being such a driver for the music industry today um it has its pros and its cons right I think the pro of tick tock is that it really really gives artists the control if they enjoy it right but this isn't new this is the same thing there's an amazing panel you can watch on YouTube and it's a bunch of like old crochety male rock stars and then Madonna and they're all complaining about MTV I sort of resent the fact that a kid grows up you know listening to the radio and listening to the great music you know Legacy of music that we have and dreams about playing the guitar or playing the drums you know we're musicians we shouldn't have to make a video [ __ ] this [ __ ] this like we didn't sign up to be like actors we signed up to be musicians and all of a sudden has to be an actor to me that makes absolutely no sense at all and Madonna's like well I think it's art and I really [ __ ] love it when you perform on stage you're acting I mean that's a performance so what's I mean if someone puts a camera on you what's the difference so that's the same conversation that's happening right now some artists don't want to [ __ ] make tick tocks some of them have a blast are some of them who are new and no don't have a record deal it's their only option and it's an option that's working the negative side of it I will say is is that a label can have the best song they've ever had and if the artist isn't good at Tick Tock or if the gods of algorithm don't lift it up or what however it works if the engagement doesn't kick off Sometimes the best song ever that has the [ __ ] record deal and has the budget and has everything is not gonna be heard and so that's the con the other side of you know the people like oh these [ __ ] tick tockers getting record deals I'm like it's the same thing as Disney it's just the new [ __ ] Disney and some people on Disney deserve their record deals and some people didn't and some people on Disney who like maybe people thought didn't deserve the record deal well you know everything's gonna be a breeze ended up being [ __ ] amazing and like are never going away so tick tock's the same thing like some of these people are models on Tick Tock who shouldn't have record deals but they do but some of them are actually amazing [ __ ] singers and songwriters and instrumentalists who do get a record deal and then they end up being great you know so um like everything there's pros and cons but I like to always focus on the pros because the cons are just exhausting last two questions for you awesome so over the next year I'm trying to interview a hundred singers songwriters and producers we talked about this earlier about to repeat it God has to bless you because God can help you with that 100 songs experience is way too way too much but maybe a goddess could help you with this endeavor of torture [Laughter] first on the list was David Foster second was Coldplay third Rick Astley and now you I mean I'm in pretty good company that those people have been like Legends for decades I'm like on year eight you've been writing songs since 15 though yeah but no one heard any of them until 2014 but okay go on I'm interrupting you I'm sorry go on you haven't even asked the question so I'm trying to show a different side of the music industry for people to be able to see it see the behind the scenes because I feel like people haven't really gotten to see that yeah so my question for you is how many likes does this video have to get in order to show the behind the scenes of one of the songs that you write oh how many likes um I mean I need your advice on this like how many likes I I'm very new to tick tock so you have to tell me how many likes is worthy of my behind the scenes content I would probably say I I told Coldplay as much as they wanted to do and uh Chris said a hundred thousand okay if Coldplay said a hundred thousand I need to with myself I'm gonna say fifty thousand that's too much I'm gonna say 20. we'll keep it at 50 000. I wanna make sure wait if Cole plays a hundred I should really bring this down but yeah okay we'll say 50 000. let you know what we'll shake on it with these cheekbones let's go fifty thousand fifty thousand let's do it so final question for you yeah uh advice for anyone trying to make it in the music industry now singer songwriters producers or anyone with a dream anyone trying to make it in the music industry right now if you're trying to be a singer songwriter artist producer don't be afraid to make as much music as possible and don't be precious with it like let it out into the world because that's the only way people are gonna find you it's the only way people even if it's not because you might not be trying to go [ __ ] viral and like become an internet sensation but it's the only way for people to hear you you have to let it let people hear your music and then I think the best thing you can do is to collaborate um co-writing songs will change your life immediately uh I always say even if you decide that you [ __ ] hate co-writing if you like like make yourself do 10 sessions you know like because you will learn so much about who you are as a writer you will learn your strengths you will learn your weaknesses um that coating changed my life you know it's it's how did you find people to co-rate with starting out yeah I found people to correct with through you know through my band it was our last album we made was with Tricky Stewart and so he introduced me to a couple people awesome and there's a song uh on the band's last album called Aviation High that uh if you're gonna check out my bands listen to the the band's self-titled song which is the same patch weapons but everyone calls it [ __ ] gorgeous because the main lyric is I can't pay my rent but I'm [ __ ] gorgeous which was very true at the time then there's a song on the last album called Aviation High that my bands and I we all worked on together but we co-wrote it with this producer named accident who did like Fireball by like Pitbull and like stuff but like I never thought would make sense with my band um and we just tried it and it really changed the way that I wrote um and it really pushed me melodically um really made me think about like having the the melody really sink into the drum Groove in ways I'd never thought about before um and I was like this is kind of awesome and then when I asked my publisher to let me write for with and for other people it was a new collaborator every [ __ ] day and then when there was people that I wrote really well with it was then you lean into that um and I just learned so it just made my song so much better and it makes me so much better like knowing what your strengths are and owning that um which I was talking to you before like I know my strengths are lyrics I know my strengths are song structure and I know my strengths are like the more like the more dramatic alternative side of Melodies but if we're looking for like a little detailed pop Melody I'm not even gonna try like why would like there's someone who's better at that than me let them be better than me so co-write collaborate and don't be precious incredible it sounds like write a lot of songs write too many songs and not want to die from how many songs am I uh collaborate and put your music out and promote it yeah incredible yeah thank you so much for your time today thank you yeah bring it in so fun star on your hands kids this guy's gun right back at you