# tactiq.io free youtube transcript
# Cosmologist Bernard Carr Explores the Mysteries of the Universe with Sadhguru
# https://www.youtube.com/watch/rwkAo6m87ms

00:00:00.880 time is a fundamental firmament space is
00:00:03.679 happening on top of it can one Escape
00:00:06.480 time the way I am made is not different
00:00:09.960 from the way the universe is made we
00:00:12.360 don't know what the dark energy is it's
00:00:14.440 meant to be some sort of cosmological
00:00:16.440 constant but it makes the universe
00:00:18.600 accelerate generally in science you call
00:00:20.680 it a theory yeah I call it my experience
00:00:24.119 if I give you a simple line can you
00:00:26.279 build mathematics for
00:00:28.960 it
00:00:44.320 call
00:00:58.920 joh
00:01:05.209 [Music]
00:01:09.400 m
00:01:17.119 yog
00:01:18.680 [Applause]
00:01:20.240 y
00:01:25.530 [Music]
00:01:28.840 Kal
00:01:30.759 because I said something in a language
00:01:32.840 that you don't understand I think I
00:01:34.079 should explain a bit thank you thank
00:01:37.520 you I'll make it
00:01:41.840 simple it's a chant talking about how uh
00:01:46.520 cycles of
00:01:48.240 time can either crush us or trap us or
00:01:53.079 if we ride them it can liberate
00:01:55.719 us only one who is risen above
00:02:00.640 The Duality of one's existence only one
00:02:04.399 who is in yoga which means one who has
00:02:05.960 known the union of one's existence with
00:02:08.639 everything else only he will rise about
00:02:11.760 the time and only one who Rises about
00:02:14.200 the time has master your
00:02:19.920 life I think the topic which has been
00:02:22.920 given tonight is the discussion of
00:02:26.480 making space and time for
00:02:30.800 Consciousness and so one of the
00:02:33.360 questions
00:02:34.920 is how does one
00:02:37.360 Escape time can one Escape time and you
00:02:42.000 refers as cycles of
00:02:44.200 time
00:02:45.840 which relates to the question of whether
00:02:48.280 time is linear or time is
00:02:51.120 cyclic which is a a topic of great
00:02:53.640 philosophical interest and and in fact
00:02:57.000 that is something which I would like to
00:02:59.959 talk to you
00:03:02.560 about and it's a question which arises
00:03:05.760 both in the context of
00:03:07.720 cosmology which is my professional
00:03:12.080 discipline when we look at the universe
00:03:14.239 it's full of py cyclic processes and
00:03:17.159 even the universe
00:03:19.319 itself could be a cyclic process now at
00:03:23.319 the
00:03:24.239 moment most cosmologists would say we
00:03:27.319 don't live in a cyclic universe because
00:03:30.040 the universe is accelerating because of
00:03:32.640 What's called the dark energy we don't
00:03:34.760 know what the dark energy is it's meant
00:03:37.360 to be some sort of cosmological constant
00:03:40.360 but it it makes the universe accelerate
00:03:43.640 rather than recollapse so if you ask
00:03:46.720 most cosmologists they say well though
00:03:48.319 the future of the universe is it will
00:03:50.080 expand forever and it will get more and
00:03:52.920 more dispersed eventually we won't even
00:03:55.400 be able to see the other galaxies
00:03:57.519 they'll be so far away
00:04:00.439 but that's interesting because if you
00:04:03.120 read most of the Rel religious texts
00:04:06.599 especially I think from the Eastern
00:04:08.360 tradition the Hindu and the Buddhist
00:04:10.280 text there the indication is that the
00:04:12.920 universe is going to recollapse and that
00:04:16.199 you will actually have cycles of the
00:04:19.519 universe and I have to confess
00:04:22.919 personally I've always favored a cyclic
00:04:26.040 Universe because everything in the world
00:04:29.680 we know of has
00:04:31.320 Cycles it turns out that the the time of
00:04:34.280 the cycle is something like 20 billion
00:04:38.560 years and that's remarkably close I mean
00:04:41.280 if the universe is going to recollapse
00:04:42.919 it will recollapse on that sort of time
00:04:44.800 scale
00:04:45.919 probably
00:04:47.639 and modern cosmologists have only
00:04:50.240 discovered this in the last 50 years
00:04:52.440 using their
00:04:54.039 telescopes and and so it's remarkable
00:04:57.440 that Buddha and maybe other other
00:04:59.720 Mystics were able to get this
00:05:01.560 information whatever it was 500 BC to
00:05:05.479 many many years ago so it's like you
00:05:07.720 have this Inner Space Station so we're
00:05:09.639 spending through science we're we're
00:05:11.759 spending billions of dollars to get this
00:05:14.160 information
00:05:16.039 whereas one's getting it from these
00:05:18.800 mystical insights for free of
00:05:22.160 course it it's not free it's not free it
00:05:26.039 cost
00:05:27.080 life it cost life
00:05:32.080 oh it's not it's note it costs life it's
00:05:34.199 not free I see okay fair enough yes fair
00:05:37.520 enough dollars come from somewh else
00:05:40.639 life goes waste looking at these
00:05:44.720 things but but to me this is an
00:05:47.680 important point about the link between
00:05:49.600 science and spirituality one thinks of
00:05:51.440 them as being opposed from my
00:05:54.680 perspective they're both studying the
00:05:59.080 the phys physical universe and Tech they
00:06:01.160 can both be applied to study the
00:06:02.800 physical
00:06:03.960 Universe from an outer perspective and
00:06:07.240 from the inner perspective and I think
00:06:10.080 ultimately there is agreement well if
00:06:12.280 it's the same truth if it's the same
00:06:14.160 universe they're looking at there has to
00:06:15.680 be agreement there has to be concordance
00:06:19.680 and and I think that's remarkable that
00:06:22.039 the so I I know there's been a tradition
00:06:25.840 of inner science in in in Indian
00:06:29.479 Philosophy for for many years thousands
00:06:31.759 of years but in Western philosophy the
00:06:34.880 focus is all on outter science and I
00:06:37.520 think part of this Union between science
00:06:40.039 and spirituality will be the realization
00:06:42.560 that inner science and outer science
00:06:44.880 must
00:06:51.639 merge and and of
00:06:54.160 course my having this conversation with
00:06:57.240 with so you're in the top
00:07:00.400 this is so oh
00:07:03.160 yeah and by the way whoever prepared
00:07:06.360 this B cloth it is beautiful I mean I
00:07:08.319 don't know if it was done specially for
00:07:09.720 this conversation but it's all these
00:07:12.039 equations they make me feel at
00:07:16.759 home
00:07:18.520 y
00:07:20.680 y
00:07:22.479 yeah but um but the only thing I would
00:07:25.599 like to say is we're talking about the
00:07:27.599 physical Universe because I am
00:07:29.039 profession a cosmologist so I can talk
00:07:31.599 about cosmology without getting into
00:07:33.840 trouble and and so when we talk about
00:07:36.720 cycles and the time scale of Cycles
00:07:39.440 that's conventional cosmology and so if
00:07:42.199 there are any physicists in the room you
00:07:44.560 should be happy about that however I
00:07:47.240 know this conversation I hope this
00:07:48.919 conversation is going to Veer into other
00:07:51.520 domains where one is going beyond the
00:07:53.720 physical Universe because I think one of
00:07:56.759 the the lessons one gets from
00:07:59.960 well mystical insights is that there are
00:08:02.960 other levels of reality beyond the
00:08:07.199 material I think I refer to this as the
00:08:09.759 domain of postmaterialist
00:08:12.280 science originally s Guru was talking
00:08:15.000 about cycles of time and I'm talking
00:08:17.199 about so far cycles of time within the
00:08:20.080 physical cosmology but there are also
00:08:22.479 cycles of time which go beyond physics
00:08:24.639 and I know we'll get onto that later but
00:08:27.080 I should maybe ask you to
00:08:34.760 react because uh today modern science uh
00:08:41.479 the methodology is U to come up with a
00:08:44.720 concept make a theory build a
00:08:47.600 mathematical backbone and then look for
00:08:51.000 elements of proof which could confirm
00:08:53.279 those things I I believe that's a
00:08:56.160 methodology the methodology of uh
00:08:59.440 mysticism or mysticism or yogic way of
00:09:04.480 looking at things
00:09:06.160 is to turn in
00:09:08.440 word and look at what we are made
00:09:11.760 of this is coming from the
00:09:14.600 fundamental uh in science you would say
00:09:18.040 an
00:09:19.480 assumption in my experience I say from
00:09:21.959 the fundamental knowing the way I am
00:09:24.680 made is not different from the way the
00:09:27.279 universe is made I just a tiny bit but
00:09:32.560 still you can sit here with these little
00:09:35.519 eyes you can look up and look at g a
00:09:38.279 Galaxy this is because this is made the
00:09:41.360 same way and we are able to reflect
00:09:45.560 that there are some studies people say
00:09:48.720 that uh they have looked at the vision
00:09:52.200 and mindscapes of some insects or
00:09:54.519 something some experiments have been
00:09:56.120 made where they're saying their vision
00:09:58.720 and their thing doesn't go beyond their
00:10:00.680 survival
00:10:02.640 requirements so this capability we have
00:10:05.600 because we are able to reflect the
00:10:07.360 entire universe within us if you wish in
00:10:10.880 fact everything that we are seeing is
00:10:12.880 only a reflection right now this people
00:10:15.519 seem to be here but we are only seeing
00:10:18.000 them the way they reflecting in the
00:10:19.440 firmament of our minds there is simply
00:10:21.680 no other way to see
00:10:23.480 it so having said that the fundamental
00:10:26.640 instruments of perception is just this
00:10:30.720 how we keep
00:10:32.200 it different people can see different
00:10:35.040 things based on how sharp they keep
00:10:37.160 themselves when I say see I'm not only
00:10:38.720 talking about visual apparatus we see
00:10:41.200 through the five senses and
00:10:43.800 more so in this
00:10:48.040 context the way we see this is because
00:10:51.040 your cosmology inevitably your uh the
00:10:54.240 other day uh the boss didn't allow you
00:10:57.160 to speak about time
00:11:00.480 because he said no it's
00:11:04.440 time but you had spoken about
00:11:07.959 space which I see personally as a
00:11:11.959 consequence of
00:11:14.399 time let me just uh articulate in simple
00:11:19.040 words what is the way we see the
00:11:22.279 universe and see if how many overlaps
00:11:25.760 are
00:11:26.519 there and if there are things that don't
00:11:29.079 overlap we can examine why they don't
00:11:33.480 overlap it's like
00:11:36.600 this in the in the yogic principle the
00:11:40.000 universe was like
00:11:42.240 this this is usually represented as an
00:11:45.639 obus a snake a cobra running into each
00:11:49.040 other mouth and ta tail included and a
00:11:52.639 hood Rising here so this is not the
00:11:56.720 European oras an know they make make it
00:11:59.200 a circle but this is how it was so we
00:12:03.480 call this anant that means it's
00:12:07.959 infinite it's infinite infinite yeah
00:12:11.000 infinite I'm sorry we
00:12:14.399 Indian you invented the
00:12:20.320 concept no I'm I want to tell you it's
00:12:23.040 not a
00:12:24.519 concept this infinite or Infinity was
00:12:28.320 like this
00:12:29.440 the nature of infinity I don't have to
00:12:31.360 tell you but for
00:12:33.240 everyone
00:12:34.800 uh if you make infinity + 10 it's still
00:12:39.160 infinity infinity minus million still
00:12:42.320 Infinity so your mathematics don't
00:12:46.399 work you do plus minus multiply divide
00:12:51.079 nothing so it was like this you could do
00:12:54.320 nothing with it then it unfolded and
00:12:57.480 became like this
00:12:59.839 then we call the
00:13:02.079 sh shun means
00:13:05.600 emptiness it became empty what is what
00:13:08.600 was infinite became empty this is very
00:13:11.279 important to understand
00:13:13.120 this what was that which is infinite was
00:13:16.199 it not empty we could not even call it
00:13:19.199 empty or full at that time because it's
00:13:21.920 infinite there's no plus minus to it no
00:13:24.680 multiplication and division to it so it
00:13:27.040 was this way it uncoiled itself to
00:13:30.600 become
00:13:32.360 nothing nothing means we must put a
00:13:35.800 hyphen between no un thing it is a no
00:13:39.440 thing but it has a presence
00:13:42.240 now this presence I'm assuming maybe
00:13:46.839 this presence is what the modern
00:13:49.720 scientists are calling as dark energy or
00:13:51.920 dark force or
00:13:53.240 whatever but it's very appropriate
00:13:56.000 because we call this sh or
00:14:01.120 kala the word kala means empty the word
00:14:05.720 kala means Darkness the word color means
00:14:09.120 time the word color means space yeah all
00:14:13.839 these four things became somewhat
00:14:16.440 manifest because it became a
00:14:19.440 color so this is here as
00:14:22.839 emptiness
00:14:24.560 but we call this Infinite Space
00:14:30.959 must mark my words it's infinite
00:14:34.759 infinite space not time because there is
00:14:39.639 no
00:14:41.120 distinction it is time which is
00:14:43.600 unfolding to become
00:14:45.800 space so once it became color like this
00:14:50.279 you can see it as emptiness you can see
00:14:53.519 it as time you can see it as space you
00:14:57.160 can see it as the manifest first
00:14:59.639 manifestation of that which doesn't have
00:15:01.639 a form anything that doesn't have a form
00:15:04.720 is also called
00:15:06.800 color so what was Infinite Space became
00:15:12.320 zero now + one is plus one minus one is
00:15:17.240 minus one suddenly there is there is no
00:15:20.519 physicality yet but there is a
00:15:22.639 mathematical foundation for its
00:15:25.680 physicality now once it became empty
00:15:29.480 like this this the word
00:15:32.680 shuna is in terms of written word for
00:15:36.000 the first time it's seen about 400
00:15:40.560 BC there's a there are documents where
00:15:43.040 clearly the word sha
00:15:45.240 and the the mark of a zero is there it
00:15:50.079 traveled to Arabia in early uh you know
00:15:53.880 the next part of how we count time
00:15:57.040 today because those divisions are not
00:15:59.440 there in our minds because we have to
00:16:01.720 communicate with the English speaking
00:16:03.160 world we we have also come that cut off
00:16:06.399 date is somewhere 2,000 years
00:16:09.120 ago otherwise we don't have those cut
00:16:11.600 offs in our minds so I'm I'm just saying
00:16:14.600 a what are you calling it now uh ad ad
00:16:18.639 it's not ad anymore what are they
00:16:19.959 calling it a c c it's called C now
00:16:24.839 Common Era or something oh c yes so uh
00:16:29.480 in the Common Era in the first 2 Century
00:16:32.079 or maybe by third fourth Century it
00:16:34.639 traveled to Arabia
00:16:37.000 because Indian Traders were maintaining
00:16:40.240 trade routs from India from right from
00:16:43.399 the bottom of India that is southernmost
00:16:45.360 parts of India right up to Damascus
00:16:47.800 Jerusalem aleo even today aleo city is
00:16:51.720 supposed to be 8,500 years old and that
00:16:54.720 city was built by taxing the Indian
00:16:56.720 Traders so the live transaction was a
00:17:00.639 daily business people were traveling
00:17:02.600 quite a lot so it traveled to Arabia
00:17:06.240 where they called it Cipher the word
00:17:08.959 Cipher again meant
00:17:10.720 empty this Cipher came to Europe in
00:17:13.839 Latin they called it
00:17:15.799 zarum that went to Venice Venice where
00:17:18.959 it was the Hub of many things happening
00:17:20.799 in Europe and there they called it zero
00:17:24.599 and the English called it Cipher these
00:17:27.119 days nobody's using that word Cipher
00:17:28.919 when we were growing up it was common to
00:17:31.240 use the word Cipher in English language
00:17:33.280 but I don't know in as a code as a
00:17:35.799 secret code oh is that well the word
00:17:38.960 Cipher is to do in English is connected
00:17:41.679 with coding but this is a different
00:17:44.160 context yeah we used to use the word
00:17:46.280 Cipher as a zero when say it was used in
00:17:49.160 a derogatory way oh he's a cipher he's
00:17:54.000 nothing kind of thing so this aspect
00:17:59.320 once it became nothingness but it was a
00:18:03.080 firmament of
00:18:05.600 tremendous existence but without
00:18:08.080 physical form then we go into a
00:18:12.799 more what to say a dialectical way of
00:18:15.880 expressing this where we say we calling
00:18:18.880 this kala as a being a large formless
00:18:23.640 not large
00:18:24.919 infinite formless being infinite cannot
00:18:28.200 have a form of course so it's a being
00:18:30.559 and he
00:18:31.559 breathes he was inhaling inhaling is a
00:18:34.679 long process maybe running into millions
00:18:36.520 or billions of years there are
00:18:37.480 calculations for that I'm not the
00:18:39.600 mathematician for that and when he
00:18:42.760 exhaled when he exhale it's not that he
00:18:45.799 has nostrils he exhales from
00:18:48.480 everywhere if we did not have no
00:18:50.840 actually even our skin is you know it's
00:18:53.480 not only perspiring it's also respiring
00:18:55.679 you know so we are breathing through our
00:18:58.000 every pour in the skin like that when he
00:19:00.400 breathed that created a certain amount
00:19:02.720 of energy that be call a shi shi came
00:19:05.559 out of him when energy came out of him
00:19:09.200 then this this firmament of nothingness
00:19:13.440 which is a powerful force it started
00:19:16.679 reverberating initially then caused
00:19:18.720 ripples those ripples led to cyclical
00:19:21.840 movements so with these cyclical
00:19:24.000 movements the first physical forms came
00:19:26.760 out and it all over burst forth as these
00:19:30.720 Cycles became more and more complicated
00:19:34.600 from whatever we call as electrons
00:19:37.360 protons atoms planetary systems
00:19:40.799 universes all these evolved because the
00:19:43.240 cyclical movements fundamentally we see
00:19:46.919 physicality as a consequence of cyclical
00:19:49.640 movement our very birth is because of
00:19:52.720 the cyclical movements in our mother's
00:19:55.720 bodies otherwise we wouldn't be born
00:19:58.520 there is a yogic doomsday you would like
00:20:00.600 to
00:20:02.720 know so studying the Cycles feeling the
00:20:05.919 Cycles in our own bodies and studying
00:20:08.440 these Cycles things were figured out
00:20:11.000 because we were more interested in how
00:20:12.559 to transform life here and how to make a
00:20:15.960 human being going go beyond the Cycles
00:20:18.760 as I said earlier the cycles of time are
00:20:22.039 such they can Crush
00:20:24.520 you why in their CH childhood they were
00:20:27.880 like this and now they become like this
00:20:30.600 lot of people time has crushed
00:20:33.679 them people think it's their experiences
00:20:36.360 of life this and that no that is only an
00:20:38.799 excuse It's actually time which has
00:20:40.720 crushed
00:20:41.760 them or the same time could trap people
00:20:45.440 they're okay but they're bored and they
00:20:47.159 don't know what to do with themselves do
00:20:49.280 you mean crush them in the sense that
00:20:50.760 they
00:20:51.559 die that will anyway happen but when
00:20:55.000 they're alive they feel crushed by time
00:20:58.520 the the cycles of time just crushes them
00:21:01.360 day in and day out many people wish the
00:21:04.120 sun doesn't come up tomorrow morning but
00:21:05.760 it comes up and they have to go to work
00:21:08.840 it CR it crushes them you know in in
00:21:12.840 United States they have thank God it's
00:21:16.000 Friday yes yes it means they don't have
00:21:19.520 to wake up tomorrow morning yes yes TG
00:21:24.279 we used at Caltech there was a we used
00:21:27.640 to have the TGIF celebration every
00:21:32.400 Friday so uh we want to break the Cycles
00:21:36.640 so any cycle naturally has a centripetal
00:21:41.200 force and a centrifugal force if you get
00:21:44.720 caught up in the centripedal you get
00:21:47.480 crushed if you ride the centrifugal then
00:21:51.320 you released a tangent is formed so to
00:21:55.120 attain to this tangent is the goal of
00:21:58.880 life in the East we call this MTI
00:22:02.120 nirwana Moka whatever essentially we
00:22:05.080 want to ride the physical Cycles in such
00:22:07.919 a way we are liberated from the physical
00:22:11.039 Cycles how did people see these things
00:22:13.919 how did people come up with these things
00:22:15.760 this is always a question well how did
00:22:18.679 the modern scientists see something
00:22:20.480 today everybody is talking about hble
00:22:22.400 and whatever the other one John what
00:22:24.559 John space James web telesc James web
00:22:27.600 space
00:22:28.880 whatever what are these instruments
00:22:31.880 these instruments are just extensions of
00:22:34.400 our own senses only because we have ice
00:22:37.600 only because we have eyes the telescope
00:22:40.000 means something otherwise it it's a what
00:22:43.159 is a telescope for a man who has no eyes
00:22:46.200 simply nothing all right it's just a
00:22:48.080 pipe with a few mirrors and maybe lances
00:22:50.840 or whatever it is it's just a pipe it's
00:22:53.080 a metal pipe we can use it for something
00:22:54.880 but you can't use it because inside they
00:22:56.559 have blocked it with so many things
00:22:58.000 quite quite expensive expensive pipe I
00:23:02.400 agree with that so I'm saying only
00:23:05.000 because we have ice we are making
00:23:07.240 instruments which will extend our
00:23:10.120 eyes so this extension was done in so
00:23:13.960 many different ways one of the things
00:23:16.600 that we did was that we created
00:23:19.679 energetic forms which would make us look
00:23:22.240 very very far today unfortunately it is
00:23:25.720 all being misunder stood and Mis
00:23:29.840 represented but there were instruments
00:23:32.480 with which we could look very far we
00:23:34.360 could open Windows into the CMOS these
00:23:37.200 we called as our
00:23:39.640 deities these are not Gods there's no
00:23:42.000 concept of God in the East are you
00:23:44.200 talking about modern telescopes or
00:23:47.440 ancient both metaphor there were no
00:23:49.880 there were no ancient telescopes I meant
00:23:52.679 metaphorical yes they they saw things by
00:23:55.840 creating energetic forms you have
00:23:58.880 definitely heard of uh because he was in
00:24:01.279 your neighborhood ramanam yes course so
00:24:04.880 when people asked him some uh
00:24:08.760 3,900 mathematical formulations he came
00:24:11.440 out with which is still being debated
00:24:13.039 and discussed and people are trying to
00:24:15.400 understand what he wrote when people
00:24:17.720 asked him he was dying of tuberculosis
00:24:21.039 he sat on his death bed and simply
00:24:23.320 poured out mathematics when people asked
00:24:26.039 him how does this come he said my Davi
00:24:29.159 which means my goddess bleeds
00:24:32.760 mathematics ramanujan was at my College
00:24:35.240 Trinity yes before my time so I never
00:24:37.960 met him and uh and uh to me that is a
00:24:42.360 fascinating example of how one can get
00:24:45.080 information about the universe not just
00:24:47.960 through the intellect but through
00:24:50.000 inspiration as you say he thought if I
00:24:52.919 want if I should correct that sir I'm
00:24:54.399 sorry I'm
00:24:55.799 intering you never get information
00:24:58.679 through your intellect you get
00:25:01.039 information through your senses and
00:25:03.120 there in the in the intellect you mess
00:25:05.120 it
00:25:08.559 up well I mean to say you match it with
00:25:11.159 the old information and try to make
00:25:12.760 sense out of
00:25:14.000 it I I wouldn't I wouldn't like to admit
00:25:17.240 that we always mess it up but I think no
00:25:19.480 no I'm saying we're trying to make sense
00:25:20.880 out of it but normally what we think is
00:25:23.520 sensible right now is actually blocking
00:25:26.840 us because what we think is smart we
00:25:29.360 can't leave what we think is stupid we
00:25:31.640 can leave
00:25:33.279 easily so you've made so many
00:25:35.559 interesting points said Guru that well
00:25:39.760 I'm not sure I can remember them all but
00:25:41.159 can I react to some of
00:25:42.840 the I will remind you
00:25:46.480 yeah
00:25:48.240 um first of all I I'm glad you you
00:25:51.520 mentioned ramanujan and Mathematics
00:25:54.720 because one of the fascinating things
00:25:57.159 about phys physics is that ultimately
00:25:59.440 the language of physics is mathematics
00:26:03.039 you can see a few equations
00:26:05.679 behind and and that is showing that our
00:26:11.159 understanding because mathematics is a
00:26:12.840 creation of the
00:26:15.360 mind and there's a curious circularity
00:26:19.559 because mathematics underlies physics
00:26:24.039 physics underlies our understanding of
00:26:25.960 the universe the universe
00:26:30.720 produces life and brains and then the
00:26:34.320 brains produce the minds which produce
00:26:36.679 the mathematics so you've got this
00:26:39.120 curious cycle the fact that the universe
00:26:42.520 is
00:26:44.200 comprehensible I mean you you were sort
00:26:46.159 of decrying in a certain sense intellect
00:26:48.240 but intellect is is part of the process
00:26:51.240 involved in in in mathematics an
00:26:53.080 incomplete process but it's because it's
00:26:55.360 it's just the left hand side of the
00:26:56.760 brain trying to sort of understand
00:26:59.960 things and to me that's always
00:27:02.320 fascinating why mathematics is actually
00:27:06.320 able to describe the universe it's a
00:27:08.840 miracle we talked about miracles quite a
00:27:10.840 lot but it seems such a miracle that
00:27:13.799 human beings um with their limited
00:27:17.039 brains are to able to understand so much
00:27:20.279 of the Universe I mean we've only been
00:27:23.520 around well 10,000 years or whatever it
00:27:26.640 is and yet we already claim we we we can
00:27:30.080 almost understand the universe
00:27:31.600 physicists claim they can almost
00:27:33.480 understand the universe completely now I
00:27:35.760 suspect that claim will turn out to be
00:27:37.440 wrong but but at least it is a miracle
00:27:40.399 that we can understand so much so that's
00:27:42.760 why I sort of reacted to the argument
00:27:44.840 that intellect messes things up I I
00:27:47.640 agree it's often wrong and in fact I
00:27:49.720 suspect most things turn out to be wrong
00:27:51.679 in the end in physics but but one
00:27:54.559 shouldn't worry too much about what's
00:27:56.440 right and wrong I think what's
00:27:57.640 interesting is is the path I think most
00:28:01.000 theories of physics end up being wrong
00:28:03.679 but that doesn't mean it isn't useful
00:28:05.760 because it's the path which is important
00:28:07.840 rather than the the final Paradigm which
00:28:10.320 is always going to change but I've
00:28:12.799 always I remember there's a statement um
00:28:15.320 that mathematics is the language of God
00:28:18.600 I don't know if this is a statement in
00:28:20.279 the in the Indian philosophy but
00:28:23.000 mathematics is the language of God it is
00:28:26.120 sometimes said on the other and I know
00:28:28.720 that roomie said that the language of
00:28:32.200 God is silence and that maybe is more
00:28:35.120 consistent with what you're saying but
00:28:37.080 so that's the the first point I wanted
00:28:38.720 to make the the importance of
00:28:41.080 mathematics although ultimately it can't
00:28:44.720 it can't reveal everything I still think
00:28:46.399 it's important and that's why I loved
00:28:48.440 your reference to ramanujan who was a
00:28:51.000 spokesman for mathematics which came I
00:28:53.960 think from his Davis from his angels
00:28:56.200 rather than just through his
00:28:58.519 intellect now the you you I was I love
00:29:02.960 the moment when you took your
00:29:05.760 infinity and it turned into
00:29:09.320 zero because as people will know I spoke
00:29:12.159 about the cosmic eurobus in in my in my
00:29:15.360 talk on Thursday and I love the cosmic
00:29:18.120 eurobus because it encapsulates all the
00:29:21.679 the Triumph of physics and coming to
00:29:23.799 understand the physical universe but of
00:29:26.440 course the most interesting in aspect of
00:29:28.120 the
00:29:28.840 eurobus is where the head meets the
00:29:32.320 tail and I said well the head is
00:29:36.279 corresponds to this the universe and we
00:29:38.960 know how big the universe is 10^ the 27
00:29:42.360 cm and the tail corresponds to the the
00:29:46.120 plank scale 10 Theus 33
00:29:49.120 cm well those are only the T the biggest
00:29:52.919 and smallest scales as we understand it
00:29:55.279 really what those scales
00:29:58.240 represent it's it's infinity and
00:30:02.000 zero okay the the largest scale is
00:30:04.600 infinity and the smaller scale is zero
00:30:07.159 and of course we we we reduce them to
00:30:09.880 finite amount so we can understand them
00:30:12.600 but to me the real really interesting
00:30:15.159 point about the eurobus the top of the
00:30:18.320 eurobus is that is where Infinity meets
00:30:22.799 zero now the symbol of the eurobus is
00:30:26.880 like a zero you
00:30:29.000 remember but the symbol which which s
00:30:33.840 Guru used is of course the symbol of
00:30:36.399 infinity and I I came across your
00:30:38.880 representation of that on on the website
00:30:41.120 somewhere it's a beautiful image in fact
00:30:42.720 I think I even showed it briefly at the
00:30:44.720 beginning of my talk but I'm not sure if
00:30:47.120 it was intended but to me that was a
00:30:49.440 fascinating thought because it shows
00:30:51.159 that in some sense Infinity is zero and
00:30:55.559 that's how the universe began because
00:30:57.880 from a physicist point of view the
00:31:00.240 universe began in a
00:31:04.000 vacuum we don't know exactly what
00:31:06.159 happened at the beginning of the
00:31:07.200 universe but in some sense there was
00:31:09.760 just pure energy and there was no matter
00:31:11.880 no form no
00:31:13.360 structure so it just started in out of a
00:31:18.600 vacuum and the vacuum I suppose
00:31:21.000 corresponds to zero but it also
00:31:23.760 corresponds to Infinity because from my
00:31:26.760 perspective at least at the top of the
00:31:30.039 eurobus that may be the end of physics
00:31:32.480 as we understand it but actually from my
00:31:35.679 perspective that is where Mind and
00:31:38.880 Spirit come
00:31:40.080 in and so that from my
00:31:43.559 perspective if we want to have an
00:31:45.519 extension of physics it's there at the
00:31:48.600 top of the uroborus that we're going to
00:31:50.679 somehow find Mind and
00:31:53.200 Spirit and and maybe from a cosmological
00:31:57.360 perspective that is where the universe
00:31:59.399 has come
00:32:01.760 from because if you believe that mind in
00:32:04.399 some sense was prior to matter you must
00:32:07.360 find it there at the top of your robus
00:32:09.919 precisely where your zero and your
00:32:12.679 Infinity
00:32:14.720 meet now and then you refer to all the
00:32:17.720 different cycles of
00:32:19.639 time the other thing about the oroborus
00:32:22.519 is that there all those different levels
00:32:24.720 of structure you remember I talked about
00:32:26.799 them there biological time with human
00:32:29.399 beings there planetary time the Stellar
00:32:32.720 time Galactic time so the physical world
00:32:35.799 is full of all these
00:32:38.440 cycles and so when the material world
00:32:42.159 was created in the Big Bang it led
00:32:46.039 through a process of evolution to all
00:32:47.919 these different levels of structure
00:32:49.559 which had all the different Cycles all
00:32:52.240 the different time skill which of course
00:32:54.600 range over a huge range I mean that
00:32:58.360 Cosmic uroborus was expressed in terms
00:33:00.679 of space in terms of time spaces the
00:33:03.919 scales of things it could equally well
00:33:06.360 have been expressed in terms of the time
00:33:08.799 scales of things because every length
00:33:11.720 scale goes with a time scale you
00:33:13.320 mentioned space and time are intimately
00:33:15.799 connected and so you could also put time
00:33:18.559 scales around that diagram every every
00:33:21.720 level of structure has a time scale
00:33:23.480 associated with it and so that is a
00:33:25.960 manifestation of the physical world that
00:33:28.799 there are these all these cycles and we
00:33:31.480 as human beings of course we experience
00:33:34.039 a limited range of these cycles and uh I
00:33:37.440 was impressed I almost depressed when
00:33:40.840 you said how it's the Cycles which uh
00:33:45.639 can overwhelm us the experience of these
00:33:48.399 Cycles can be almost depressing because
00:33:51.880 you feel that it's just in everyday life
00:33:55.039 constantly I I always I hate shopping
00:33:57.840 and and I find having to go shopping
00:34:01.200 every day especially when my wife is
00:34:02.840 away and having to Everyday shop and
00:34:05.639 then cook every day and then wash every
00:34:09.320 day it's a bit overwhelming so I think I
00:34:11.800 understood what what do you mean by
00:34:14.960 that and um but that's part of it it is
00:34:19.040 part of
00:34:20.119 cycles and uh and I what but all I want
00:34:24.000 one thing I must I must tell you in yoga
00:34:27.520 these Cycles are referred to a samsara
00:34:30.320 yes yeah but in common Society in the
00:34:33.520 language the word samsara means family
00:34:36.839 oh right oh I didn't realize that all
00:34:41.639 right well I
00:34:43.639 can actually I don't have any children
00:34:45.918 but I can imagine that
00:34:47.839 that's I can imagine that's samsara yeah
00:34:51.599 suppose you went to a lab and you found
00:34:53.560 a new universe it doesn't matter you
00:34:56.199 still have to come home yes yes
00:34:59.960 yeah and yet of course and of course
00:35:02.280 from Buddhism I understand the concept
00:35:04.839 of samsara and and the constant cycle of
00:35:08.640 birth and rebirth and how one needs to
00:35:11.040 escape from that and so my understanding
00:35:14.079 is that although there are all these
00:35:15.800 Cycles in the physical world that there
00:35:18.960 is an escape from all those Cycles which
00:35:21.720 I understand although don't experience
00:35:24.720 is is in some sense the aim of
00:35:27.760 I suppose the mystical path to escape
00:35:30.440 from the cycle I have to say
00:35:33.200 personally I've never had a I'm not a
00:35:36.560 very spiritually evolved person and I
00:35:38.599 know I'm not going to become enlightened
00:35:40.119 in this why why do you say that well I I
00:35:42.680 I because I me more you're trying to
00:35:45.480 destroy my work no no because my work is
00:35:49.720 to make sure that everybody it doesn't
00:35:52.599 matter who you are what you are the
00:35:54.960 possibility is always there will you
00:35:57.359 invest in the possibility or not that's
00:35:59.800 left to individuals but if you say it's
00:36:02.640 not possible then you're trying to
00:36:04.359 destroy my work don't do that well well
00:36:07.680 if by becoming enlightened I can justify
00:36:10.200 your work I will strive to become
00:36:18.040 enlightened but all I all I all I mean
00:36:22.040 is that I I don't personally feel I've
00:36:24.440 been very successful I mean I meditate
00:36:26.440 and think things like that but but and I
00:36:28.960 know but I have many spiritual friends
00:36:32.240 many and yeah and uh and I I like to
00:36:36.960 think that their spirituality rubs off
00:36:39.760 on me
00:36:42.319 some no sir uh this is a a wrong sense
00:36:47.119 of uh the term spirituality spreading
00:36:50.200 around in the world okay to be spiritual
00:36:52.880 you need not be going to a Temple Church
00:36:55.160 or mosque you need not be praying you
00:36:57.599 need not be meditating nothing it is
00:37:00.359 just that if you're sincere enough I'm
00:37:03.720 using the word sincere because if you're
00:37:05.960 sincere
00:37:07.040 enough you know you don't know a damn
00:37:09.359 thing M that means you're always your
00:37:13.200 intelligence is always seeking if you
00:37:15.359 keep yourself that way you're
00:37:17.400 spiritual okay so I'm not given up you
00:37:20.880 oh thank
00:37:23.720 you well I feel I will be more spiritual
00:37:26.440 after this
00:37:27.920 conversation
00:37:31.240 yeah um and so one thing I would like to
00:37:34.800 talk about because actually I would like
00:37:36.839 to to get some information from you if I
00:37:40.160 can because although I'm a theorist and
00:37:43.280 I'm speculating about the nature of time
00:37:46.680 and Consciousness I have this feeling
00:37:48.880 you probably know all the answers or at
00:37:50.319 least some of the answers so I would
00:37:51.760 like to ask how some of my ideas relate
00:37:54.359 to to to your insights
00:37:58.000 and it's to do with the nature of
00:38:00.960 time and indeed the nature of
00:38:03.960 space in my talk on on Thursday I was
00:38:09.480 trying to explain that if you want to
00:38:12.760 expand physics to
00:38:15.880 accommodate Consciousness by which I
00:38:18.079 mean Mind and Spirit because
00:38:21.040 Consciousness is everywhere in in in
00:38:23.240 matter Mind and Spirit but you have to
00:38:27.119 expand your concept of space and your
00:38:30.160 concept of
00:38:31.480 time now I I already spoke on Thursday
00:38:36.000 about in what sense I felt you had to
00:38:38.280 expand your concept of space but just to
00:38:41.240 recap just in case there were some
00:38:42.920 people not there my argument was
00:38:46.319 that most
00:38:48.680 mental and many spiritual experiences do
00:38:52.040 require a space and I was referring to
00:38:56.800 dream
00:38:58.200 space out of body space the space of a
00:39:02.359 near-death experience the space of
00:39:05.480 ghosts uh the space even of some
00:39:07.760 mystical experiences not all mystical
00:39:09.960 experiences because some go beyond space
00:39:12.920 and time but and and what I argued was
00:39:16.079 that you need some higher dimensional
00:39:19.160 space because it's not just physical
00:39:20.880 space it goes beyond physical
00:39:23.400 space and and then what I said was this
00:39:26.680 High dimensional space it it corresponds
00:39:28.960 to a sort of high dimensional reality
00:39:31.800 which reconciles all our experiences of
00:39:34.160 the world not just of the physical world
00:39:36.760 but of of all the
00:39:39.880 worlds and so that was my claim and then
00:39:42.480 the point I made was that even physics
00:39:45.000 itself claims that there are higher
00:39:47.480 Dimensions because Newton had a
00:39:49.640 three-dimensional space Einstein said it
00:39:52.240 was four-dimensional space space and
00:39:55.000 time being merged which of course agrees
00:39:58.079 with what you were saying earlier that
00:39:59.960 space and time are basically the same
00:40:02.839 and then I explained how they introduced
00:40:05.960 The Fifth Dimension to explain
00:40:07.800 electromagnetism and then how they
00:40:09.880 introduced six more dimensions in order
00:40:12.880 to in super string theory in order to
00:40:16.920 describe all the physical interactions
00:40:19.160 so then you had a 10 dimensional world
00:40:21.560 and then finally I said with M Theory we
00:40:24.119 had the idea there was another dimension
00:40:26.040 so have an 11 dimensional space and sad
00:40:29.839 Guru made the fascinating remark which
00:40:31.640 was new to me that actually 11
00:40:33.520 Dimensions is precisely what arises in
00:40:36.160 some of the Traditions maybe we can come
00:40:38.640 back to that but then the real the key
00:40:41.560 point I wanted to make was that in one
00:40:44.280 particular version of M Theory the
00:40:46.040 physical world is a
00:40:48.119 slice in a high dimensional space the
00:40:51.160 slice is called the
00:40:52.880 brain b r n e and the hard dimensional
00:40:55.839 space is it's a five-dimensional space
00:40:58.280 it's called the
00:41:00.040 bulk and so physics gives you a hard
00:41:02.760 dimensional space of which material
00:41:05.800 world is a
00:41:07.520 slice your experience your mental and
00:41:10.560 spiritual experience gives you a hard
00:41:12.400 dimensional space so the main point I
00:41:14.560 made on Thursday is why can't we
00:41:17.400 identify these two
00:41:19.400 spaces this is not a view that many of
00:41:22.079 my physics colleagues will share because
00:41:24.920 they don't want to be associated with
00:41:26.319 with
00:41:27.200 mysticism uh but that's my personal view
00:41:30.200 I I don't want you to give the
00:41:31.440 impression that I am this is the
00:41:33.040 mainstream physics view because I'll get
00:41:36.119 into trouble with my physics colleagues
00:41:38.000 if you get that impression but it's it's
00:41:39.760 a it's my view anyway but that was
00:41:42.520 talking about
00:41:44.040 space but what I didn't talk about um
00:41:48.560 because our kind chairman realize
00:41:52.200 that I didn't talk about time so can I
00:41:57.119 can I speak for about five minutes about
00:41:59.079 time and then I'm going to ask S Guru if
00:42:02.359 he that's a lot of time
00:42:06.400 sir you see what is fascinating
00:42:10.800 about
00:42:12.400 Consciousness is that it involves the
00:42:14.560 passage of time when you say I am
00:42:16.720 conscious one can argue about what you
00:42:18.960 mean by conscious there's a distinction
00:42:20.920 between the contents of Consciousness
00:42:23.240 which is what I'm normally referring to
00:42:24.680 when I talk about a space
00:42:26.720 Consciousness but but the experience of
00:42:28.720 Consciousness Excel this must change you
00:42:30.680 should not say space like this ah I you
00:42:34.319 go like this thank you
00:42:37.640 yeah okay so conscious space like
00:42:42.280 that
00:42:44.119 yeah and and hopefully time like this
00:42:48.240 which means the chairman can't stop me
00:42:49.960 if
00:42:53.760 I anyway the point is
00:42:57.720 this what You' got to realize in
00:43:00.839 Einstein with his serious special
00:43:02.880 relativity he married up space and time
00:43:05.559 he realized that the world is
00:43:07.680 four-dimensional with the fourth
00:43:09.000 dimension being
00:43:10.960 time and so you as a human being you
00:43:15.000 your body is like a world line in this
00:43:18.200 you imagine space and time in two
00:43:19.960 Dimensions I hope I can use my hands but
00:43:23.079 you imagine space and time in two
00:43:25.119 Dimensions to make it simpler you are
00:43:27.599 like a line your world line in this in
00:43:31.640 this four-dimensional space but is
00:43:34.119 represented as two-dimensional
00:43:36.240 space but in Einstein's picture it's
00:43:39.119 called The Block
00:43:41.319 Universe past present and future
00:43:44.480 coexist there is no time but in your
00:43:48.839 conscious
00:43:50.040 experience you think of yourself as
00:43:52.280 moving through time so if you imagine
00:43:54.599 your world line is a brain you you sort
00:43:58.160 of think of your Consciousness as like a
00:43:59.880 little bead which is traveling along
00:44:01.839 that wire that's your experience so
00:44:05.200 right now it's 10 to 5 but it'll be 5:00
00:44:07.839 in 10 minutes and it was quarter to 5 5
00:44:10.680 minutes ago but the point is that that
00:44:14.640 does not happen in relativity theory in
00:44:17.599 relativity Theory there is no passage of
00:44:21.119 time and this is well understood and
00:44:23.720 this is why many physicists and
00:44:25.119 philosophers say
00:44:28.839 it is an illusion the passage of time is
00:44:31.119 an
00:44:32.559 illusion and yet we all experience
00:44:36.160 it now what I'm saying is that mind the
00:44:40.599 experience of Consciousness is not
00:44:43.000 actually part of our current picture of
00:44:45.880 physics it's not part of
00:44:48.520 Relativity and the passage it's nor is
00:44:51.520 passage of time really in quantum
00:44:54.800 theory time has a different status in
00:44:57.160 quantum
00:44:58.240 theory so how do you explain this well
00:45:01.359 the way various physicists well various
00:45:04.160 philosophers have explained it including
00:45:05.839 myself is you have to say there is an
00:45:07.920 extra Dimension which is an extra
00:45:10.680 dimension of time which corresponds if
00:45:13.760 you like to mental time as opposed to
00:45:16.400 physical
00:45:17.440 time and so this is why I say current
00:45:21.200 physics meaning relativity Theory and
00:45:23.000 quantum theory cannot explain the
00:45:25.400 experience of
00:45:26.920 Consciousness but the final Theory of
00:45:29.359 physics which is going to reconcile
00:45:31.720 relativity and quantum theory that has
00:45:33.680 to explain Consciousness and it has to
00:45:36.280 include this extra Dimension because
00:45:38.240 what I'm saying is mental time is an
00:45:40.839 extra Dimension is that okay right
00:45:44.520 everyone's convinced good now but
00:45:47.800 there's another feature of Consciousness
00:45:50.000 which is really
00:45:51.359 crucial and this is to do with what I
00:45:54.640 call the specious Pres present this is
00:45:57.240 the minimum time scale of
00:46:00.760 experience you
00:46:02.640 see when we're normal human beings we
00:46:06.119 only there's a minimum time we can
00:46:08.680 experience which is something like a
00:46:10.240 tenth of a
00:46:11.839 second you imagine my finger is a light
00:46:15.480 if I move this light around in a circle
00:46:17.880 you will see that light going round okay
00:46:21.839 but if it goes around too fast if it
00:46:24.280 goes around more than 10 times a second
00:46:25.880 second you won't see it as motion you'll
00:46:27.720 see a continuous light okay so there is
00:46:31.280 no time on a time scale less than a
00:46:33.960 tenth of a second which is basically the
00:46:36.000 species present on the other hand if
00:46:39.200 this little light moves around too
00:46:41.640 slowly you won't see it moving either
00:46:45.319 that's to do with the time scale of
00:46:46.880 memory so our experience of time only
00:46:51.480 extends over a really short range of
00:46:54.559 times from something like a a tenth of a
00:46:56.400 second maybe a thousand seconds okay
00:47:00.200 that's what we mean by human
00:47:03.040 consciousness so this concept of the
00:47:06.160 speeches present it's a very old concept
00:47:08.280 it actually goes back to William James
00:47:10.079 it goes back more than a 100 years but
00:47:13.040 even many philosophers don't talk about
00:47:14.800 it so Consciousness comes with a
00:47:17.359 specious present and our specious
00:47:19.359 present is essentially roughly say a
00:47:22.160 tenth of a
00:47:23.839 second now we as humans are very
00:47:27.599 arrogant we assume that that is the only
00:47:30.960 level of Consciousness in the
00:47:33.440 universe well at least not
00:47:36.480 human well yes yes yeah okay absolutely
00:47:41.319 well I I suppose exactly when I say when
00:47:45.240 I say humans arrogantly I don't mean all
00:47:48.040 humans I mean a certain especially most
00:47:50.040 of my scientific colleagues would assume
00:47:51.839 that we are the most important form of
00:47:54.720 consciousness uh obviously not you
00:47:58.000 probably not most of you
00:48:00.559 but but the question is
00:48:04.400 therefore this species
00:48:07.240 present it's I said it's a tenth of a
00:48:09.599 second but actually it can change and we
00:48:11.359 all know it can change in circum
00:48:13.960 circumstances uh I I expect you had the
00:48:17.000 experience you're in a in a crisis
00:48:19.680 situation say you're falling off a
00:48:22.040 mountain I don't know if anyone's ever
00:48:24.040 fallen off a mountain but you know time
00:48:26.559 seems to slow down or maybe you're in a
00:48:29.240 car accident and the outside world
00:48:31.079 everything seems to be in slow motion
00:48:32.880 that's because your specious present had
00:48:35.079 sort of sort of
00:48:36.920 shrunk and and so that happens you can
00:48:39.960 have another experience for example
00:48:42.599 where your species present expands I
00:48:44.960 know of a case of someone who was in a
00:48:46.839 very ill was lying in bed and saw this
00:48:50.440 flashing light at the
00:48:52.160 window and couldn't work it out what it
00:48:54.599 was but it turned out this flashing
00:48:56.400 light was arising in the setting of the
00:48:59.119 Sun but their specious present had
00:49:01.760 expanded so that it seemed to be a
00:49:05.400 flashing a flashing light it's a
00:49:08.440 question of the relationship between
00:49:09.720 your in mental time and physical time
00:49:13.119 now of course most most neuroscientists
00:49:17.040 would probably think that can be
00:49:18.440 explained be because there must be some
00:49:20.640 sort of clock in time inside the brain
00:49:23.160 so for example sir one second because
00:49:25.920 there's a lot of things if each one of
00:49:27.839 those things if we unpack together
00:49:29.720 absolutely it be good because you're
00:49:31.079 saying so many things we will by the
00:49:33.319 time we come back no I but so are you so
00:49:35.520 are you so it's
00:49:43.319 it's yep yes
00:49:49.119 uh the important thing is uh I think
00:49:52.400 anston is committing incest yeah when he
00:49:55.760 says we will marry time and space I
00:49:57.880 don't know whether he said it or not you
00:50:01.040 said because what we are seeing as space
00:50:05.480 in my experience is a consequence of
00:50:08.680 time time has given birth to
00:50:12.000 space and our sense of time is
00:50:15.920 essentially because of cyclical moments
00:50:17.920 otherwise we don't know
00:50:19.440 time right now people are sitting
00:50:22.359 here well if this goes for an hour and a
00:50:25.280 half have to they're okay it doesn't
00:50:27.880 matter what great truth you talk if it
00:50:30.079 becomes 4 hours they will slowly slip
00:50:32.240 out because not the clock their bladder
00:50:35.559 keeps time yeah their backside keeps
00:50:38.480 time their lower back keeps time
00:50:42.880 hello suppose they didn't have a body we
00:50:46.359 took away their
00:50:47.559 bodies then if we sat here for 2 million
00:50:50.480 years they have no
00:50:52.960 problem we as physical beings are a
00:50:56.079 consequence of time which is essentially
00:50:59.680 cyclical moments of physical
00:51:02.200 material we are a consequence of that if
00:51:04.960 we rise above our physicality there is
00:51:07.440 no sense of time in us this is what
00:51:11.040 unfortunately the Western observers are
00:51:13.640 saying is
00:51:14.880 trans somebody has risen about his
00:51:18.160 physical state now he sits here you
00:51:22.200 think he's sitting here whatever number
00:51:24.480 of days but he in his experience he's
00:51:27.160 sitting for a few
00:51:28.720 moments it's a living experience for me
00:51:31.280 in my life then there are any number of
00:51:33.839 people who gone into deeper processes
00:51:35.760 where if you make them sit in a certain
00:51:37.520 State they don't know any sense of time
00:51:40.119 time just like that so how much impact
00:51:44.640 when I said you can either get crushed
00:51:46.680 by time or you can be trapped by time or
00:51:50.799 you can be liberated by riding the time
00:51:54.079 How Deeply you write identified with
00:51:56.319 your physicality that's how much power
00:51:59.200 time has over you if you're not so
00:52:02.240 physically identified now you are a
00:52:04.760 scientist you're lot happening up there
00:52:08.480 now you go into your laboratory or
00:52:10.160 wherever you go you don't know when to
00:52:13.040 eat there are some people their stomach
00:52:16.240 tells them all the time when to eat when
00:52:19.240 to go to the bathroom when they should
00:52:20.880 go
00:52:21.720 again in the office you will see many of
00:52:25.440 them in 8 hours of work are going to the
00:52:27.440 bathroom four to five times and going to
00:52:29.440 eat and drink another five times because
00:52:32.559 completely ruled by the body if suddenly
00:52:35.799 you became more interested in something
00:52:37.640 else you don't know when to eat when to
00:52:40.160 pee when not to do because bodily
00:52:43.280 influence on you the power of the body
00:52:45.119 is gone once the power of the body is
00:52:46.960 gone on you the power of time is gone on
00:52:49.760 you so if you completely free from that
00:52:53.160 you are Beyond Time process
00:52:56.000 but how do we come to this we look at
00:52:59.520 human body as a construct like this
00:53:02.720 there is a physical body which is an
00:53:05.160 accumulation of the food that we have
00:53:06.680 eaten this is the hardware that we built
00:53:10.520 there is a software which you're calling
00:53:12.319 as a mental space is it I'm sorry mental
00:53:15.160 space it's a mental body we call that
00:53:17.760 also as body we calling everything body
00:53:20.920 all the five aspects we call it as body
00:53:23.400 because body means you can observe you
00:53:26.440 can learn space is a WG thing so there
00:53:31.240 is a mental body there is memory and
00:53:33.920 information and intelligence right
00:53:35.880 across so the mental body this is the
00:53:39.040 software Hardware software together can
00:53:41.839 do nothing unless it's plugged into
00:53:43.599 power so the third layer we call this as
00:53:46.400 the pranay kosha or the energy body so
00:53:49.440 it's plugged in and these things are
00:53:51.000 functioning most human beings live their
00:53:54.720 life
00:53:55.680 between physical mental bodies very
00:53:59.040 rarely there may be little bit of
00:54:01.000 experiencing The Chronic body or the
00:54:03.599 energy body the next dimension of the
00:54:07.000 body is called
00:54:10.280 vosha Viana literally means is Gana
00:54:13.680 means to know means to know Viana means
00:54:18.160 it is a combination of two words VES Gan
00:54:22.400 that means an extraordinary knowledge
00:54:26.200 extraordinary knowledge means anything
00:54:28.480 that we don't perceive through our sense
00:54:30.839 perception but we perceived it then we
00:54:34.240 call this vesan or Vian today in India
00:54:38.640 the word science has been described as
00:54:42.200 Vian right now in school subjects it's
00:54:44.760 called
00:54:46.119 Vian because we are saying this is
00:54:48.480 extraordinary knowledge because you what
00:54:50.920 your eyes could not see your telescope
00:54:53.119 saw so we are saying you are having
00:54:55.160 extraordinary knowledge because beyond
00:54:56.960 the sense perception you extended it
00:54:58.839 somehow it doesn't matter how how you
00:55:02.240 extended it somehow using a physical
00:55:04.440 mechanism or using your own power of
00:55:07.640 extending your eyes somehow or the other
00:55:10.319 you saw something that your eyes cannot
00:55:12.400 see so we call this vigan so general
00:55:15.400 science is called vigan in India
00:55:18.040 now so this
00:55:21.319 vosha for lack of English words some
00:55:24.680 people describe it as the etheric
00:55:27.240 body what this means is it's a
00:55:29.799 transitional body between physicality
00:55:32.640 and non physicality there's a
00:55:34.880 transition so now from what you are
00:55:38.280 saying because I'm not much of a
00:55:39.720 scientist by any standards so what I
00:55:42.960 perceive is science is little bit
00:55:46.640 putting its tentacles or its uh what do
00:55:49.440 you call this the Cockroach to
00:55:52.760 things antenna antenna you're putting
00:55:55.920 your antenna into
00:55:57.680 Vios but not able to enter the fifth
00:56:01.280 layer of the body we call it as Bliss
00:56:03.680 body not because there's a bubble of
00:56:05.880 bliss inside simply because we do not
00:56:09.039 know what is its nature because it's not
00:56:12.520 physical at all we cannot Define by any
00:56:16.119 word or describe it by any description
00:56:19.079 so we say Bliss body because this is
00:56:21.160 child's
00:56:22.359 language it is like a child sees a
00:56:26.720 speaker let's say a speaker like this
00:56:29.680 and you say boom boom so in that
00:56:32.119 language we are talking when we touch it
00:56:34.640 our experience becomes so Bliss Blissful
00:56:37.680 so we are saying this is bliss body we
00:56:39.599 are not saying that is the nature of
00:56:41.880 that we are saying when we touch it we
00:56:44.760 eat something and it say it's sweet
00:56:47.039 because sweet is our experience that is
00:56:49.480 not the nature of what it is this is our
00:56:51.760 experience so we call it Bliss body
00:56:54.319 right now
00:56:56.039 please I'm not trying to be uh
00:56:58.240 countering something I'm just trying to
00:57:00.680 Define my understanding of this from
00:57:03.640 what you are saying I see that you are
00:57:06.559 nibbling at
00:57:09.520 VI but to cross
00:57:12.160 it if you don't come out of the the
00:57:15.480 other day I called it a dungeon today I
00:57:17.160 will remain it to
00:57:18.720 Foundation the foundations of logic you
00:57:21.799 must
00:57:22.640 cross because logic can
00:57:25.440 function only with two this and that
00:57:29.119 without that you cannot now these two
00:57:31.480 things have gone till here it needs to
00:57:33.799 become like this so somebody married
00:57:36.000 time and space that needs to happen
00:57:38.200 within us you can this marriage of time
00:57:41.640 and space or merger of time and space
00:57:44.880 can only happen if you transcend your
00:57:47.640 physical nature otherwise it will not go
00:57:52.240 there I entirely accept that one reaches
00:57:55.640 a point Beyond logic Beyond mathematics
00:57:59.839 but nevertheless I would argue that you
00:58:03.520 can
00:58:04.520 extend the logic in the mathematics
00:58:07.839 beyond the physical domain because I was
00:58:11.000 making a distinction between physical
00:58:13.799 time and another level of time which is
00:58:16.920 not physical but
00:58:18.480 nevertheless subject to logic and
00:58:20.599 subject to mathematics so I think what
00:58:22.240 I'm saying is that there's an intermedi
00:58:25.119 regime between the material domain which
00:58:28.079 most physicists think about and that
00:58:31.039 domain which goes beyond logic and
00:58:33.119 Mathematics Al together so I think what
00:58:35.559 I'm talking about what I'm nibbling at
00:58:38.400 if you like is that intermediate domain
00:58:41.720 so I don't think that's in contradiction
00:58:44.319 with what you're saying but I mean just
00:58:46.799 to I was talking before about how your
00:58:50.599 experience of the specious present can
00:58:52.880 change but that was all
00:58:55.559 in the circumstances where the species
00:58:57.760 present was presumably related to what
00:59:00.359 was going on in the physical body but
00:59:03.319 the point I wanted to make was that you
00:59:06.079 may have a psychic or a mystical
00:59:09.559 experience where your experience of time
00:59:12.280 is very different indeed so for example
00:59:15.200 you might have
00:59:16.359 a a near-death experience in which your
00:59:20.599 whole life is seen in an instant okay
00:59:25.160 rather than just as a so your 100 years
00:59:27.520 is just seen in one moment because in
00:59:30.079 some sense your specious presence in
00:59:32.079 that state of mind has has expanded to
00:59:36.319 be a whole life and my understanding is
00:59:40.680 from the literature not from experience
00:59:42.599 is that in various mystical States it's
00:59:46.280 like you can be expanding changing your
00:59:49.440 specious present like a dial on a radio
00:59:52.240 so that you experience the world
00:59:55.720 at a different level of Consciousness
00:59:57.880 and that different level of
00:59:59.119 Consciousness corresponding to a a
01:00:02.000 different species present and so I mean
01:00:05.280 the point I was going to make was that
01:00:08.079 it's very arrogant to assume that the
01:00:09.720 only level of Consciousness in the
01:00:11.400 universe is is this human being I don't
01:00:15.079 myself see why there shouldn't be a
01:00:17.559 hierarchy of level of Consciousness on
01:00:20.079 time scales much larger and much smaller
01:00:22.720 than the human being uh I don't see why
01:00:26.000 for example why there shouldn't be a
01:00:28.599 planetary level of Consciousness with a
01:00:31.079 much longer species present maybe a day
01:00:34.160 why there shouldn't be a cell solar
01:00:37.520 level of
01:00:38.559 Consciousness which might be 100 years
01:00:41.520 there might why there couldn't be a
01:00:42.799 galactic level of Consciousness and why
01:00:44.559 there couldn't be a a cosmic level of
01:00:46.880 Consciousness so I would say within this
01:00:50.280 perspective this is why I'm putting the
01:00:52.119 emphasis on species present I don't see
01:00:54.319 why why there cannot be a hierarchy of
01:00:57.400 levels of consciousness associated with
01:01:00.520 different if you like forms of
01:01:02.079 embodiment but also if I can ask a
01:01:05.400 question because you are using the term
01:01:08.880 uh what this mind time related to the
01:01:12.240 mind right yeah yes I'm now talking
01:01:14.359 about time related to mind rather than
01:01:16.200 to physics I'm saying the time we
01:01:20.480 experience time only because of our
01:01:22.920 relationship with our body
01:01:25.039 not with our mind in our mind we can
01:01:26.960 make 1 hour into 10 hours 10 hours into
01:01:29.280 1 hour we can because on a given day if
01:01:32.480 you're very joyful the day passes like
01:01:34.720 10 minutes if you are depressed the day
01:01:37.119 passes like a eon so this is a mental
01:01:39.680 thing mind how we see mind
01:01:43.799 is uh there is something called a satand
01:01:46.960 you have heard that right have you sat
01:01:50.680 an no I don't know the terminology I
01:01:53.200 think I concept sat means truth or
01:01:56.559 reality chit means we are referring to
01:02:00.319 chit as mind Anand means
01:02:04.839 blissfulness so sat is reality which
01:02:07.640 which is
01:02:08.680 there but we can only look at the
01:02:11.720 reality through the LIE of our
01:02:15.119 mind s is half there half not there it's
01:02:19.960 a half a
01:02:21.359 reality it's part of it is true part of
01:02:23.960 it is not true chit is a complete lie
01:02:27.240 you can make anything out of it you can
01:02:30.200 look at this and see a dinosaur there
01:02:33.279 genuinely people do that soorry see a
01:02:36.359 you can see a dinosaur or an elephant
01:02:38.240 standing there right now though it is
01:02:40.279 right you can see an elephant standing
01:02:42.720 there though it is not there you can
01:02:44.559 look at this person and think oh she's
01:02:46.359 evil you can look at that person and
01:02:48.400 think oh she's beautiful you can look at
01:02:50.760 that person and think something else
01:02:52.240 this is
01:02:53.200 all like Lies made up in our mind we can
01:02:57.240 make up whatever we want this is the
01:02:59.680 beautiful thing about our mind we can
01:03:02.319 even make an absolute lie into reality a
01:03:06.079 total lie something that never existed
01:03:08.839 we can make it into a reality of our own
01:03:12.160 this is a phenomena that we have a
01:03:14.680 kaleidoscope we can make whatever with
01:03:16.720 little information we can make so many
01:03:18.520 things out of it but that's not an
01:03:20.680 instrument to explore Kaleidoscope you
01:03:23.319 can enjoy but you cannot make that into
01:03:26.240 an instrument of
01:03:27.839 exploration body is more reliable body
01:03:31.160 Never Last you
01:03:33.559 hello but there are different levels of
01:03:35.760 body I mean what you were saying
01:03:38.599 physical body mental body I mean I'm
01:03:42.079 right now saying the physical body never
01:03:44.880 lies it's telling you the truth isn't it
01:03:47.599 you you want us to
01:03:50.760 stop mental body physical body I'm
01:03:53.319 asking
01:03:55.839 so I'm saying when you get hungry you
01:03:57.520 get hungry this but mind can tell you no
01:04:00.359 you're not
01:04:01.720 hungry mind can tell you when you don't
01:04:04.599 need food mind can tell you you need to
01:04:06.520 eat but body tells you truth about
01:04:09.240 everything when it's cold it's cold when
01:04:11.039 it's hot it's hot everything is the way
01:04:12.880 it is but mind can make it whichever way
01:04:16.039 you want what is Pleasant for one person
01:04:18.520 is unpleasant for somebody what is
01:04:20.240 unpleasant is Pleasant because mind
01:04:22.559 makes up all these things this is the
01:04:25.279 mind as we see it right now we just
01:04:27.240 essentially talking about one aspect
01:04:29.400 which is the intellect which is what
01:04:31.559 today in modern societies we have
01:04:33.279 strived to develop because it produces
01:04:36.079 results for us in daily life it improves
01:04:39.000 our life in so many ways what does
01:04:41.520 Improvement in life mean essentially it
01:04:44.319 means we get to handle our survival
01:04:46.640 process more and more efficiently that's
01:04:48.839 all Improvement is this is why though
01:04:52.319 compared to how let's say how how our
01:04:55.200 grandparents lived and how we are living
01:04:57.400 today probably every one of us have 10
01:04:59.799 to 20 time 20 times more than what they
01:05:02.480 had we are not any more joyful or any
01:05:05.279 more liberated than them though people
01:05:07.279 claim it is not when you look at the
01:05:09.359 people on the street their faces they're
01:05:12.039 driving their dream cars when you look
01:05:14.039 at their faces you know they are no
01:05:16.200 better people who walked or bicyle were
01:05:19.079 also like that in the past I'm not
01:05:21.440 saying we are more miserable but we
01:05:23.480 cannot claim because of these Comforts
01:05:25.640 we become more joyful we become more
01:05:27.839 comfortable more convenient life more
01:05:30.720 possibilities in the physical world all
01:05:32.760 that accepted but this doesn't change
01:05:35.400 the experience because it's the mind
01:05:37.599 which can create whatever you want some
01:05:40.200 people who manage their mind well they
01:05:41.880 see a good picture on their Kaleidoscope
01:05:44.599 some people who don't know how to manage
01:05:46.279 that they see a bad picture all the time
01:05:48.839 but that's got nothing to do with the
01:05:50.400 reality so when we are using an
01:05:52.319 instrument like this to explore
01:05:54.960 the fundamental reality of our existence
01:05:57.680 it will give us a bad picture telescope
01:05:59.520 is a good thing kidcope
01:06:01.960 no so that's can I ask you a question
01:06:05.640 because you're talking about you see the
01:06:08.440 dinosaur or the elephant I didn't I I'm
01:06:11.160 just that was your your example but but
01:06:13.520 but would you just would you regard our
01:06:17.559 theories of from physics our theories of
01:06:20.520 the world as as being like the dinosaur
01:06:23.119 and the elant I'm not saying that see
01:06:25.799 the theories of the
01:06:27.920 world I'm not saying they're all wrong I
01:06:30.960 that's why I said they're pointing in
01:06:32.440 the right
01:06:33.880 direction but even if you point in the
01:06:36.799 right direction let's say right now our
01:06:38.880 vision like some other like a fly or a
01:06:42.039 grasshopper or a mosquito is only 10 ft
01:06:44.720 let's say both of us can see only 10
01:06:47.319 ft we can think okay this two rows of
01:06:50.559 people are sitting there maybe 20 rows
01:06:52.400 are there maybe there are more people
01:06:54.640 and we start looking but still our
01:06:56.839 eyesight improves we not going to see
01:07:05.160 them right but um so it's extremely
01:07:09.960 important now I in my perception science
01:07:14.279 has never pointed in the right direction
01:07:16.039 in the last 25 30 years they're
01:07:18.319 beginning to point in the right
01:07:20.119 direction when they're pointing in the
01:07:22.160 right direction developing instruments
01:07:24.520 to see further is very vital now for
01:07:28.640 emancipation of humanity from being
01:07:31.000 stuck in their own
01:07:33.520 cyles but you see you're when you're
01:07:35.640 talking about eyes there is the there
01:07:38.720 are the physical eyes but what interests
01:07:41.520 me is that for example if one has an
01:07:44.799 outof the- Body Experience One floats
01:07:47.200 around one sees things but one's not
01:07:49.760 one's one's not actually seeing anything
01:07:52.319 through one's physical eyes so it's as
01:07:54.640 though there there's a different level
01:07:56.839 of B embodiment a different level of eye
01:07:59.440 a different sort of light with which one
01:08:02.000 is exploring the world so are you are
01:08:05.400 you making this remark just in the
01:08:07.599 context of physical in every context
01:08:10.079 time saying suppose suppose it's true
01:08:12.559 that somebody slipped out of their body
01:08:14.359 and floated around I can show you some
01:08:17.799 examples which are stock unbelievably
01:08:20.479 stock which will be shocking for most
01:08:22.799 people leaving the let's say somebody
01:08:25.158 here slipped out she's a good
01:08:28.719 candidate she slipped out of her body
01:08:32.319 and went around but to see physical
01:08:36.158 light you need these eyes you can't I
01:08:39.359 can't see physical light with my
01:08:41.640 hands you need these two eyes to see
01:08:44.359 physical
01:08:45.319 light because this whole problem of
01:08:50.399 light this is this has come because what
01:08:53.319 is met metaphorical is being taken
01:08:56.399 literally by a whole lot of people I
01:08:59.238 think it's panjali who made the mistake
01:09:01.198 maybe be even before him somebody must
01:09:03.158 have where he said if you bring yourself
01:09:07.600 distance yourself from your
01:09:09.759 psychological and physiological process
01:09:12.479 a new light will arise within
01:09:15.759 you when he says light he's not talking
01:09:18.880 about this physical light which is
01:09:21.000 traveling at 186,000 m per second
01:09:24.719 second he's talking about a new Clarity
01:09:27.839 has come you see things totally
01:09:29.759 differently because things are crystal
01:09:31.560 clear to you but to see this light you
01:09:35.198 need these two without these two you
01:09:37.560 don't see this
01:09:39.279 light right but but this lady she is not
01:09:44.158 this one she is using oh sorry I got the
01:09:46.120 wrong
01:09:48.520 lady
01:09:50.679 but is it true to say she is using a
01:09:54.600 different sort of eyes and a different
01:09:56.760 sort of light we cannot call it
01:10:00.159 eyes because when somebody is beyond the
01:10:03.920 body they're not seeing a damn
01:10:07.440 thing but does does not mean there is no
01:10:11.280 experience experience is coming because
01:10:13.719 of
01:10:14.880 inclinations inherent
01:10:17.199 inclinations which we call as karmic
01:10:20.320 wasanas that means because you have a
01:10:22.360 certain volume of information in even in
01:10:24.600 your subtlest form you have a certain
01:10:27.239 volume of information information if
01:10:30.520 there is no intent it C creates an
01:10:33.560 inclination suppose you sit here you
01:10:36.239 have no
01:10:38.040 intent as to what you should do right
01:10:40.520 now now you go by your inclinations some
01:10:44.159 people will pluck the flower like this
01:10:46.280 some people will drink something some
01:10:48.040 people will smoke something some people
01:10:50.040 will simply sit here and dream something
01:10:52.120 this is an inclination
01:10:54.239 if you don't have an intent naturally
01:10:56.960 your memory creates an inclination we
01:10:59.719 call this inclination as vasana wasana
01:11:02.440 means literally means smell why we
01:11:05.520 calling it wasana is because in the
01:11:08.280 animal world it is a smell which plays a
01:11:11.520 big role even in human life smell plays
01:11:14.600 a massive role but people are not
01:11:16.880 noticing it simply because of their
01:11:18.520 cerebral activity a whole lot of
01:11:21.320 research has gone into it now very types
01:11:24.120 of research people are saying for these
01:11:27.760 scientists saying okay they are saying
01:11:30.120 you might have
01:11:31.280 chosen a husband or a wife or a partner
01:11:34.320 in your life because of an unconscious
01:11:37.320 sense of smell you have about that
01:11:42.760 person smelly
01:11:47.600 people I'm interested in the phenomena
01:11:50.880 of levitation for example and
01:11:54.600 the the famous case of St Theresa of a
01:11:58.080 who would levitate now that in itself
01:12:01.880 would not be a mystical experience
01:12:03.639 because a psychical researcher would say
01:12:06.080 oh she's levitating we must measure how
01:12:08.400 high she goes and how far she moves and
01:12:11.480 and so I accept that is not a mystical
01:12:14.239 phenomenon itself but since Teresa
01:12:17.159 herself was having a mystical experience
01:12:20.360 so for her she was an ecstatic state so
01:12:23.760 was a link between being etic mystical
01:12:27.159 why why is being ecstatic mystical well
01:12:29.840 I I have no experience of mystical
01:12:31.840 experience myself let me come to see
01:12:34.120 right
01:12:34.920 now recently some journalist is asking
01:12:37.719 me sadguru if there's one achievement in
01:12:39.719 your life what is it m I said
01:12:42.600 tears what do you mean by Tears I said
01:12:46.080 every day millions of people if they
01:12:48.080 close their eyes tears of ecstasy are
01:12:50.760 washing their cheeks this is the only
01:12:52.639 achievement I have rest is all
01:12:55.480 circus rest is Circus only in the world
01:12:58.639 you have to do circus to get people
01:13:00.639 attracted to that process so being
01:13:04.679 ecstatic happens if you stop creating
01:13:08.360 unpleasantness within you when I say
01:13:11.360 unpleasantness you sit here and think oh
01:13:13.880 what is she doing she's writing down
01:13:15.239 what she will she get it right I don't
01:13:16.920 think she'll get it right this is a
01:13:19.360 genuine
01:13:20.880 opinion uh does she understand what I'm
01:13:23.520 talking is he okay is that this this
01:13:26.320 this I'm saying these thousand things
01:13:28.600 are there it's not even conscious these
01:13:30.880 things
01:13:31.760 are multiplying into millions as you
01:13:34.440 grow up now all this Muk which you think
01:13:38.639 is your thought process and your
01:13:40.120 emotions and your opinions especially
01:13:42.040 you're in a university full of
01:13:45.199 opinions
01:13:47.760 okay with all these opinions you can't
01:13:50.920 see nothing
01:13:52.360 clearly
01:13:54.120 to just keep down all the opinions that
01:13:57.920 you have it takes a lot of
01:14:00.360 work people are around me for 20 30
01:14:03.280 years same
01:14:04.880 people I don't have a single opinion
01:14:07.320 about them only when it comes to work I
01:14:09.800 have to do something with them then I
01:14:12.159 have a opinion whether they can do this
01:14:13.960 or not do this but when I just look at
01:14:16.880 them I just look at them as they are now
01:14:19.679 I don't care how they were 10 years ago
01:14:22.000 I don't care how they were yesterday
01:14:24.760 when I look at them now I see them as
01:14:26.719 they are because this is very important
01:14:28.520 for what I do otherwise oh this one is
01:14:32.400 possible this is a Enlightenment
01:14:34.080 candidate this is no good that is good
01:14:36.040 one this has good genetics that has bad
01:14:38.239 genetics this all rubbish it's got
01:14:40.520 nothing to do all these things have got
01:14:42.960 something to do with their bodies and
01:14:44.840 Minds I have no business with their body
01:14:47.360 or their mind for that matter so they
01:14:50.199 may think loving their Guru is a great
01:14:52.800 thing I I think nothing about it because
01:14:56.280 love is a simple emotion even a dog can
01:14:58.639 do it very well better than you
01:15:01.199 hello we are making a big deal out of it
01:15:03.960 and exporting it to heaven and saying
01:15:06.080 God is
01:15:07.080 love this is because people have grown
01:15:09.760 up bere of love I'll tell you a sample
01:15:13.400 can I tell you a little situation I was
01:15:15.960 to speak in t Aviv unfortunately there
01:15:18.120 is a situation there a few years ago and
01:15:21.320 I'm flying out of Atlanta
01:15:24.080 I'm to land at around 11:30 in the
01:15:25.920 morning and speak at 6:30 in the evening
01:15:28.960 but some delays in the flights and I end
01:15:31.400 up Landing there at 6:00 in the evening
01:15:34.280 in this 40 years have not been late to a
01:15:36.360 single event so I don't want to you know
01:15:40.159 it's a commitment that I have that I
01:15:41.800 don't go late so I quickly change in the
01:15:44.440 airport and rushing to the event and I'm
01:15:49.400 famished uh because I'm flying an
01:15:51.560 American Airline there's nothing edible
01:15:53.840 there's nothing edible on that plane
01:15:57.400 peanuts no not even that they have they
01:16:00.040 throw some dog Bots at
01:16:05.159 you whatever nothing edible for me so
01:16:10.000 this whatever these ground nuts they
01:16:12.040 give you only in the domestic in the
01:16:13.800 international it's only dog pot in some
01:16:16.360 bread and something something it's
01:16:18.600 just not for me so I'm super hungry but
01:16:23.120 you know I have to be there on time I
01:16:24.440 rush and then I find to my amazement it
01:16:27.080 never happens to me I'm speaking at a
01:16:29.760 fine
01:16:32.360 restaurant this is
01:16:36.970 [Laughter]
01:16:39.040 coherence then I walk in and people are
01:16:41.679 already there they're greeting me one
01:16:43.239 man comes up and says
01:16:44.880 Shalom I ask him what is it mean he says
01:16:48.760 this is the highest way of
01:16:50.480 greeting I said it's all right that's
01:16:52.600 your opinion but what does it mean he
01:16:55.679 says no no no this is the highest way of
01:16:57.360 greeting I said all right what does the
01:16:59.679 word mean then he says it means peace I
01:17:03.440 said why is peace the highest way of
01:17:05.600 greeting unless you're born in Middle
01:17:08.760 East in South India somebody comes up to
01:17:11.600 me in the morning and says peace yeah I
01:17:15.360 say what's wrong with
01:17:18.880 you so I'm saying anything that you
01:17:22.000 deprive yourself off slowly Rises to
01:17:25.080 Heaven you not seen peace in your life
01:17:28.080 peace becomes God you not seen love in
01:17:30.360 your life love becomes God you not seen
01:17:33.920 blissfulness in your life Bliss becomes
01:17:35.920 God no these are all simple human
01:17:38.880 emotions so if St Teresa if she walked
01:17:43.360 around blissfully I'm glad for
01:17:46.520 her today I can show
01:17:49.679 you if not Millions at least hundreds
01:17:52.639 and thousand thousands of people who are
01:17:54.639 blissed out at least for parts of the
01:17:57.080 day I'm blessed out all the time yeah
01:18:01.000 but so for me
01:18:04.840 to Simply close my eyes and come to
01:18:07.560 tears is just two moments I'll be there
01:18:11.040 there are many many people like that
01:18:12.600 here and everywhere so it's wonderful if
01:18:15.920 that woman walked like that it's a
01:18:17.520 fantastic thing because that's how a
01:18:19.400 human being should be you shouldn't make
01:18:21.560 a saint out of her is a wonderful human
01:18:24.080 being and every human being should be
01:18:26.560 that way they must walk the streets like
01:18:28.280 this when they see the flowers in the
01:18:30.360 tree they must tears must come when they
01:18:32.440 see the clouds tears must come when they
01:18:34.800 see a child tears must come when they
01:18:36.639 close their eyes tears must come tears
01:18:39.000 of love and ecstasy not tears of misery
01:18:42.280 and pain so right now it becomes such a
01:18:46.520 rarity in a given Society now you
01:18:49.120 suddenly think she's got God going in
01:18:51.920 her
01:18:53.480 now she doesn't need God human beings
01:18:55.719 are capable of experiencing these things
01:18:58.360 I'm saying these are all experiences
01:19:00.480 that human beings have almost every
01:19:02.600 human being at some point in a moment of
01:19:05.520 Love or Joy or something tears have come
01:19:08.120 to them it's just that it's not common
01:19:11.159 if she made it a part of her life
01:19:13.520 fantastic but in eastern societies there
01:19:16.360 are any number of saints like that who
01:19:18.719 always live like that I'm not trying to
01:19:21.000 bring her down all I'm saying
01:19:23.440 you it down you mean from the levitation
01:19:25.560 or from levitation I am not talking
01:19:28.360 about I because that's a question of
01:19:30.560 breathing in
01:19:32.080 hydrogen not
01:19:35.320 oxygen I'm saying I don't want to bring
01:19:37.800 her down my work is to raise the
01:19:40.760 humanity not bring down somebody from
01:19:43.239 the heaven so unfortunately in those
01:19:46.880 societies because everybody else is in
01:19:49.440 such a mess if one human being Rises you
01:19:52.880 you think she fell from the top no she
01:19:55.600 Rose wonderful for
01:19:58.440 her well they they did make yeah but but
01:20:03.199 I'm saying there's nothing mystical
01:20:04.719 about
01:20:05.960 that I mean that's a question can say
01:20:08.520 that is that is clearly a spiritual
01:20:10.840 experience let's say oh spiritual is
01:20:12.840 fine I mean the the lab because we
01:20:14.719 trying to make some draw some
01:20:16.400 distinctions between Psychic Spiritual
01:20:18.960 and mystical so her experience we can
01:20:21.679 put it clearly the category of a
01:20:23.880 spiritual experience that that is fine
01:20:25.840 because that that's a question of
01:20:27.400 semantics and no no these are not
01:20:29.639 semantics these are clear
01:20:32.000 distinctions in experience see when you
01:20:34.600 look at it from outside intellectually
01:20:36.840 it amounts to semantics in terms of
01:20:39.800 experience what happens in my body is
01:20:42.199 physical what happens in my mind is
01:20:44.120 mental what happens in my emotions is
01:20:46.440 emotional what happens in my spirit is
01:20:48.840 spiritual is distinctly there nobody can
01:20:51.120 question that because somebody is
01:20:53.320 questioning it from outside because they
01:20:55.440 can't see it if somebody is shedding
01:20:58.199 tears out of love we can sit here and
01:21:01.040 think oh maybe some pain this is our
01:21:04.760 conclusion but they may be blissed out
01:21:07.800 with love and tears may be coming out
01:21:10.840 possible so semantic issue comes because
01:21:14.480 we are outside observers to human
01:21:16.840 subjectivity that'll never
01:21:19.440 work uh whether she was having a spirit
01:21:22.679 ual or a mystical
01:21:24.440 experience I I you know I I bow to your
01:21:27.360 knowledge because I I am not saying she
01:21:30.280 did not have a mystical experience
01:21:32.280 because people observed that she's in
01:21:34.639 tears of ecstasy that is a spiritual
01:21:38.280 experience she might have had mystical
01:21:40.520 experiences which she cannot show to
01:21:42.600 people how will she
01:21:44.400 show but but the the question I was I
01:21:47.199 was going to ask was I was
01:21:50.360 interested in the status of psychic
01:21:53.440 phenomena because why I'm interested in
01:21:55.639 psychical phenomena is because I see
01:21:58.199 them as making a link
01:22:00.199 between matter and spirituality between
01:22:04.199 science and spirituality because in
01:22:07.120 psychic can I do this because this is
01:22:09.320 there you know in between uh they have
01:22:12.159 broke it for some reason they didn't
01:22:14.239 want the tail and the head to come
01:22:16.520 together who made it anyway see uh Psych
01:22:22.920 phenomena is extension of the
01:22:26.360 mind yes we can extend our body if we
01:22:30.199 want right now we can do a simple
01:22:31.639 experiment sir shall we do at please sit
01:22:35.199 little spine erect what we will do is
01:22:38.159 put our hands together like this and we
01:22:40.400 will vigorously rub these two hands
01:22:42.440 together with eyes closed for let's say
01:22:45.080 uh 30 to 30 seconds all right like
01:22:51.560 this
01:23:02.880 30 seconds is a long time it well my
01:23:05.880 specious presence is changing y now
01:23:08.040 keeping your eyes closed just separate
01:23:09.840 them by 3 to 4
01:23:20.000 in okay
01:23:24.040 something happening between two your
01:23:25.520 your two hands something little bit
01:23:28.000 whatever that is let's not try to Define
01:23:30.199 it describe it it's an extension of the
01:23:32.800 body you can extend the body like this
01:23:36.840 right now you have heard a phantom legs
01:23:38.880 and think somebody loses a leg or a hand
01:23:41.719 even though the physical leg is gone
01:23:43.560 still they still experiencing it because
01:23:45.560 in extended body yeah as there is a
01:23:48.400 physical body there's an energetic body
01:23:50.920 which can stay intact if the loss of
01:23:53.320 body is very sudden like that there are
01:23:57.880 tantrics we should not go here I'm
01:23:59.920 entering dangerous territory in a
01:24:02.320 university why should I commit suicide
01:24:05.320 like this let me leave the tantrics
01:24:09.400 alone so there are people who can leave
01:24:14.360 their body here and go and do something
01:24:16.400 and again come back it's called paraka
01:24:18.600 provis that means you enter something
01:24:21.080 else this is extend of the body which is
01:24:24.120 psychic extension of the body and mind
01:24:27.280 to do something is a psychic
01:24:29.639 process what you talking about St Teresa
01:24:33.760 that is a spiritual experience what we
01:24:35.719 people are seeing whether she's having a
01:24:38.199 mystical experience or or not nobody
01:24:40.679 will know she might have she might not
01:24:43.480 have but she's definitely if she's all
01:24:45.679 blissed out she's having a spiritual
01:24:47.800 experience
01:24:50.960 yeah I'm just trying to Define
01:24:54.440 that but what the the point I'm making
01:24:57.440 is that from the point of view of
01:25:00.119 extending
01:25:03.719 science these phenomena are interesting
01:25:06.560 because that you can study these
01:25:09.639 phenomena using the sort of techniques
01:25:12.080 that a scientist would
01:25:13.960 use you know you can test for telepathy
01:25:17.000 in a laboratory you can test for
01:25:19.320 psychokinesis whether you can affect
01:25:21.280 because it's all psychic phenomena
01:25:23.080 telepathy
01:25:25.040 telekinesis uh whatever other things
01:25:27.199 that people are talking about this is
01:25:28.520 all psychic phenomena which I am
01:25:30.520 personally not interested in because
01:25:32.880 that will not in any way rise a human
01:25:35.760 being beyond their limitations exactly
01:25:37.800 it will only make them little more
01:25:40.000 competent it's like if I I'm using a bad
01:25:43.800 example again if I have to kill somebody
01:25:45.719 I must go there and do something to them
01:25:48.760 but if I have a gun from here I can
01:25:50.480 shoot them this is psychic phenomenal
01:25:52.600 from here I can do things I don't have
01:25:55.199 to go there and do things so a gun is
01:25:57.679 more efficient than a knife in UK still
01:26:01.199 they use knives that's why I'm saying
01:26:03.360 there there are a few guns but many
01:26:05.320 knives yes so I'm saying psychic
01:26:08.360 phenomena is like this you're
01:26:10.199 extending your psychological and
01:26:12.480 physical forces to do certain things and
01:26:15.159 come back but this will only at the most
01:26:19.119 give you a little advantage in the world
01:26:21.560 you will not rise
01:26:23.280 anywhere I I accept that but the reason
01:26:25.960 I'm emphasizing that is because in the
01:26:28.280 attempt to expand science to accommodate
01:26:31.360 these phenomena this is and it's nothing
01:26:34.199 to do with helping somebody become
01:26:35.639 enlightened it it but nevertheless I'm
01:26:38.320 saying it's helpful it's of interest to
01:26:41.280 me yes because that's how I can expand
01:26:46.360 science to accommodate these phenomena
01:26:49.600 it's if you like it's part of the way of
01:26:51.560 going towards
01:26:52.960 unifying science and spirituality so
01:26:55.480 even though you say it's not of interest
01:26:57.440 I'm saying you don't have to accommodate
01:26:59.000 this let's dismiss all the things that
01:27:00.960 I'm saying right now in my opinion
01:27:04.719 science is looking in the right
01:27:06.560 direction they have to extend their look
01:27:10.040 I'm asking can you build a telescope
01:27:12.639 which will see something which is not
01:27:15.000 physical in nature that's what you need
01:27:16.880 to
01:27:19.560 do and the answer is not with a physical
01:27:23.400 with mathematics I'll come to that
01:27:27.199 so we because we talking about time
01:27:31.119 which I see as the most basic entity
01:27:34.520 from
01:27:36.560 infinite to zero is manifestation of
01:27:40.679 time so it's an infinite space because
01:27:44.199 it's a mix of time and space it's it's
01:27:47.679 always been like that it's time is a
01:27:49.320 fundamental firmament space is happening
01:27:52.119 on top of it now Beyond this time which
01:27:56.080 we refer to as a cyclical process
01:27:59.400 because time as we know it as we
01:28:02.360 experience it right now exists only
01:28:05.040 because of cyclical movement Planet
01:28:08.600 turns a day moon goes around a month
01:28:12.159 Planet goes around the Sun a year this
01:28:14.480 is our experience of time and similar
01:28:16.520 Cycles are happening in our own bodies
01:28:18.320 and various phenomenas in the world but
01:28:22.440 a time which is not cyclical which is
01:28:25.400 just a Stillness we call this mahakala
01:28:28.719 that means the greater
01:28:31.000 time there is a
01:28:33.400 particular de enshrined in central India
01:28:37.639 which used to be the center of time for
01:28:40.440 many Millennia before the British came
01:28:44.199 to India and they shifted it to Green
01:28:46.199 which
01:28:47.199 meantime this was the meantime in the
01:28:50.239 world because the maritime uh travelers
01:28:53.560 from Asia because that's where it
01:28:55.520 started this was considered the line of
01:28:59.199 time this is where the time started so
01:29:01.600 there they established a particular
01:29:03.080 deity which is called
01:29:04.719 mahakal so let me not go into those
01:29:07.600 things but essentially things were done
01:29:10.679 so that people can experience something
01:29:12.880 beyond their limitations of their body
01:29:15.320 because if you do not cross the
01:29:16.960 limitations of your body you will not
01:29:19.440 cross the cycles of time in any way
01:29:22.600 do what you
01:29:23.639 want as long as this body is there you
01:29:26.320 are within the manifestation of the
01:29:28.679 cycle of time so right now you're
01:29:31.639 looking the right way if you can only
01:29:34.000 build a telescope somehow or the
01:29:37.159 telescope need not necessarily be a
01:29:38.760 physical pipe if even this all these
01:29:42.320 numbers can go there and read something
01:29:46.119 or see something which is nonphysical in
01:29:48.719 nature absolutely non-physical in nature
01:29:51.760 then then science will see what is there
01:29:54.320 otherwise we're looking in the direction
01:29:57.760 but no
01:30:01.440 eyes and so the question is how can
01:30:05.199 physics do that I mean for example
01:30:07.480 people are interested I think we should
01:30:09.600 drop the word physics because I'm
01:30:11.880 talking about crossing the physical well
01:30:13.960 I mean even the word when I talk about
01:30:16.840 expanding physics to accommodate these
01:30:20.679 phenomena it is not clear that that is
01:30:23.239 the right word because most physicists
01:30:25.800 will not want to call it physics they
01:30:28.280 they will say it's philosophy or
01:30:29.719 something but um and so I'm quite happy
01:30:33.000 in fact I I I tend to use another word I
01:30:34.880 tend to use the word hypo physics this
01:30:36.679 is quite good science systematic way of
01:30:40.480 yeah but but you see within within
01:30:43.080 physics itself there's the whole
01:30:44.600 question of what is physics among
01:30:47.080 physicists it's a big issue now what do
01:30:49.960 we regard as physics because
01:30:52.440 some of the ideas I was talking about
01:30:54.679 yesterday like M Theory and these hard
01:30:57.199 Dimensions we still haven't got any
01:30:59.880 instruments that actually detect these
01:31:01.800 extra Dimensions so people will say I
01:31:04.239 mean physicists will say some physicists
01:31:06.159 will say this isn't physics this is just
01:31:09.280 mathematics or it's even it's it's just
01:31:12.239 philosophy now what is interesting to me
01:31:15.239 is that what we mean by science has
01:31:19.280 constantly evolved so in the old days
01:31:22.000 you used to think that science was to do
01:31:24.320 with
01:31:25.719 experiments but if you're an astronomer
01:31:28.040 you can't do you can't do experiments
01:31:30.440 with stars and galaxies in some sense
01:31:32.800 the universe does the experiments for
01:31:35.760 you because you've got billions of stars
01:31:37.400 and billions of galaxies so the universe
01:31:39.600 does the experiments but but you're
01:31:42.320 still it's crucial you're making
01:31:44.639 observations but then that only works
01:31:47.320 because you've got millions of galaxies
01:31:50.400 and millions of stars
01:31:52.880 so people would say well you only got
01:31:54.400 one universe so therefore how can
01:31:57.560 cosmology be proper part of science but
01:31:59.880 now we accept it is part of it is part
01:32:02.560 of science it is part of physics because
01:32:04.840 we understand the the theory which
01:32:07.320 explains the universe and so now we're
01:32:09.960 talking on what basis do we come to this
01:32:12.239 conclusion there's only one Universe
01:32:14.040 well exactly now that leads into the
01:32:15.719 next you you've foreseen my next point
01:32:18.800 which is that now people talk about the
01:32:20.800 multiples not spiritual or mystical it's
01:32:23.000 psychic and it's yeah well well the
01:32:26.840 point is the Multiverse in a certain
01:32:29.040 sense is just in the mind because we
01:32:31.480 cannot see the other universes and I get
01:32:34.480 into a lot of I've written a book about
01:32:36.040 the Multiverse universe or Multiverse
01:32:38.639 and one gets into arguments with other
01:32:40.840 physicists they say this isn't physics
01:32:43.239 because you can't see the other universe
01:32:45.719 and a crucial thing about science is it
01:32:48.239 has to be something you can see you got
01:32:50.239 to get evidence but there are lots of
01:32:52.560 things in in science and in physics in
01:32:55.080 particular you can never see but we
01:32:57.440 still accept as physics you can never
01:32:59.880 see inside a black hole but everyone ex
01:33:02.600 most physicists accept that's part of
01:33:04.639 physics you can never see a quark which
01:33:07.239 is the subatomic particle which makes up
01:33:09.880 neutrons and protons but everybody
01:33:12.520 agrees that this is part of physics so
01:33:15.040 in physics now we're used to the idea
01:33:17.639 that there are things which we cannot
01:33:20.080 see and directly get evidence for but
01:33:23.360 it's regarded as physics because it's
01:33:25.320 part of this mathematical framework
01:33:28.239 because at least part of the theory can
01:33:30.840 be can be
01:33:33.040 tested now so one of the counter argu
01:33:35.760 you mentioned the Multiverse even though
01:33:38.239 you can't see these other universes you
01:33:41.639 can argue it's still part of physics
01:33:43.480 because they're predicted by theories of
01:33:46.600 physics which can be tested
01:33:49.639 indirectly but you what I'm saying is
01:33:52.679 the there's a whole controversy going on
01:33:55.400 even within physics about what physics
01:33:57.679 is and in some sense our our paradigms
01:34:01.440 of physics now are essentially just
01:34:04.080 mental models because the concept of
01:34:08.440 reality when you talk about hard
01:34:10.000 dimensions and quantum theory I mean
01:34:12.400 quantum theory has got obviously
01:34:14.199 experimental tests but these hard
01:34:17.600 Dimensions don't yet have experimental
01:34:19.639 tests and so really it is a creation of
01:34:23.119 mind if you said psychic in a sense it
01:34:25.320 is psychic it's a creation of mind
01:34:27.960 because at the moment we don't
01:34:30.760 have the eyes if you like with which to
01:34:34.280 actually perceive going back to the St
01:34:37.360 Teresa suppose out of her blissfulness
01:34:41.400 she told all the where was she in which
01:34:43.080 part of oh well she came from Europe
01:34:45.600 I've actually forgotten what city she
01:34:46.960 was on
01:34:48.600 okay Aila in Italy yeah if she told the
01:34:53.080 Europeans make this world your home out
01:34:56.880 of
01:34:58.119 her if she has tears of blissfulness I'm
01:35:01.600 sure she's feeling like that and she
01:35:04.320 said make this world your home then the
01:35:07.320 Europeans thought then we should make
01:35:10.520 our home so big it should cover the
01:35:12.400 whole world which they
01:35:15.159 tried now that's a disaster so physics
01:35:19.159 means studying the phenomena of the
01:35:21.040 physical
01:35:22.560 world if it reaches the edge of
01:35:26.119 physicality we must leave there and come
01:35:29.000 up with a new science isn't
01:35:32.199 it come up with a new new science
01:35:35.440 whatever you want to call it I leave
01:35:36.800 that absolutely I that is the point I'm
01:35:39.320 making that you you're changing your
01:35:41.760 view of what science is to accommodate
01:35:44.400 these things and indeed you're changing
01:35:46.920 your view of what physics is to
01:35:48.639 accommodate these things and and that is
01:35:51.440 is part of the challenge and that is why
01:35:53.400 the more conventional scientific
01:35:55.800 Community is is reacting against that I
01:35:58.000 mean some of them are reacting against
01:35:59.560 things like high Dimensions which are
01:36:01.679 relatively respectable in the sense that
01:36:04.159 famous scientists work on them so even
01:36:06.400 more are there reacting
01:36:08.560 against this idea that you can extend
01:36:11.360 science to
01:36:12.639 accommodate the Multiverse and psychic
01:36:15.880 experience or whatever but I'm just
01:36:17.800 saying that that is part of the part of
01:36:20.119 the process of of linking science and
01:36:23.320 spirituality is changing what you mean
01:36:26.880 by the nature of science but the nature
01:36:29.719 of science has always changed
01:36:32.080 historically and and if ever science of
01:36:34.920 spirituality does merge in some sense it
01:36:37.639 will mean that scientists must become
01:36:40.679 more spiritual uh no I wouldn't say that
01:36:43.560 okay uh what I would say is right now
01:36:46.600 this whole fallacy of Science and
01:36:48.719 spirituality what is that we call a
01:36:51.000 science
01:36:51.960 if something is a systematic approach to
01:36:54.840 know something and if you see it also
01:36:57.880 it's the same way if I see it also the
01:37:00.199 same way and 10 other people see it it's
01:37:02.520 still the same way that means it's not
01:37:04.400 just a purely subjective experience then
01:37:07.440 we say it is science right am I
01:37:10.880 correct that's the old version of
01:37:13.239 science all right we'll go by the old
01:37:16.520 version yeah because both of us are in
01:37:18.960 that
01:37:20.199 state so now what we call a spirituality
01:37:25.080 is also a
01:37:26.600 system that if I elucidate this is the
01:37:31.199 way if you do this this and this this
01:37:33.760 will happen to you if it out of this 100
01:37:37.480 OD people even if 50 people can
01:37:40.400 experience it in my opinion it is
01:37:46.000 science because I clearly Mark out few
01:37:49.000 steps and they take those steps and they
01:37:51.360 come to such an experience I should tell
01:37:53.159 you this sometime ago a very a man who
01:37:57.080 is super exposed to all kinds of
01:37:59.199 spiritual stuff around the world he said
01:38:01.719 he's been with JK I don't know if youve
01:38:03.520 heard of JK J Krishna morti yeah yes he
01:38:06.960 was with JK for a long time till he
01:38:09.040 passed away
01:38:10.239 in ohigh and then he was with rajanish
01:38:14.360 he was with ma what's her name Anand May
01:38:18.679 Ma and he was with some European teacher
01:38:21.440 and he was with the ug Krishna morti who
01:38:23.360 was another guy from Bangalore all this
01:38:26.400 and then he came and stayed in our Yoga
01:38:28.679 Center for 2 weeks after 2 weeks he said
01:38:31.719 can I meet saru I did not know he was
01:38:33.840 there then I said okay then one
01:38:36.199 afternoon I just met him he said sguru
01:38:38.520 like this I have been all these places I
01:38:40.639 said so you a failed candidate
01:38:43.159 everywhere and you come here now what do
01:38:46.719 I do with you he said no no no sguru I
01:38:49.320 have to say this I have not come here
01:38:50.800 for anything he was already like 79
01:38:53.800 something when I met him he said no I'm
01:38:56.480 not looking for anything I'm each one of
01:38:58.560 them have contributed I've read you and
01:39:00.599 I've seen you and all that I just wanted
01:39:03.080 to see you that's it all I want to say
01:39:06.000 is I've been to all those places
01:39:08.480 experienced so many things each one of
01:39:10.239 them enhanced my life in some way but
01:39:13.320 you are the only one who has a spiritual
01:39:16.280 Factory I said what do you mean I said
01:39:19.159 every week I'm just seeing people
01:39:21.520 Ordinary People come there when they're
01:39:23.599 leaving after 3 and 1 half days they're
01:39:25.560 all bursting with joy and screaming and
01:39:27.840 dancing around and going one batch after
01:39:30.119 another one batch after another they're
01:39:31.599 coming and going the same way this is a
01:39:33.760 spiritual Factory then I thought this is
01:39:36.040 a great idea because a factory means
01:39:38.239 turning things out more efficiently than
01:39:40.239 handmade
01:39:41.440 stuff I I called out people and I know
01:39:44.480 they won't go with that I said we should
01:39:47.480 call this Isa spiritual Factory yeah
01:39:50.639 because
01:39:52.159 the efficiency with which you are
01:39:53.679 functioning it is a spiritual Factory we
01:39:56.960 have a roll out whoever comes this way
01:40:00.320 when they come out at least reasonably
01:40:02.360 they'll come out that way all right so
01:40:06.560 when we are able to turn out the same
01:40:09.040 thing or bring a whole lot of people to
01:40:11.080 similar or if not same similar
01:40:13.480 experiences repeatedly again and again
01:40:16.480 and again not in a few years not in 200
01:40:19.800 years like science for thousands of
01:40:21.760 years we are able to do that why is that
01:40:24.159 not
01:40:27.320 science one
01:40:29.239 thing if this is not Infinity this is
01:40:32.679 supposed to be and and no and okay you
01:40:35.639 should remove and Science and
01:40:38.639 science but you see the one of the
01:40:41.760 interesting points was
01:40:44.639 that science is normally assumed to be
01:40:49.040 taking the third person perspective of
01:40:51.199 the world when you talked about how this
01:40:53.880 no this this is why I told this example
01:40:55.800 this guy was taking a third person view
01:40:58.599 and he saw this is a spiritual
01:41:00.920 Factory people are rolling out in the
01:41:03.520 same level of
01:41:04.800 experience but the point is experience
01:41:08.239 when you're talking about a a science of
01:41:10.880 mind you're talking
01:41:12.320 about experience not experiment I think
01:41:15.400 this you're saying the same thing that
01:41:17.320 no no no see I mean don't translate an
01:41:19.800 experience just to the mind
01:41:21.400 today Bala is trying to study that
01:41:24.080 experience chemically all right the
01:41:26.159 blood chemistry and whatever other
01:41:27.960 things I don't want to get into that
01:41:29.320 because I don't care how long is you
01:41:31.360 tell me
01:41:33.480 I but all those things matter to today's
01:41:36.880 science it's fine now they are saying
01:41:39.080 the endoc canites are up by whatever
01:41:41.280 percentage it is much more than what
01:41:43.599 happens in sexual orgasm just sitting
01:41:46.440 here why is this not science it's
01:41:49.840 measurable
01:41:52.040 I I'm agreeing I'm saying that you
01:41:54.000 should have a science of
01:41:55.719 experience so I think I'm agreeing with
01:41:57.880 you in that respect experience is not
01:41:59.880 scientific experience is very subjective
01:42:02.520 human but you can measure it not at the
01:42:06.480 level of experience at the level of
01:42:08.760 what's happening in the body you're able
01:42:10.440 to measure it what's happening in your
01:42:11.920 Chemistry you can measure it because all
01:42:14.199 human experience has a chemical basis to
01:42:18.679 it but that's reducing everything to
01:42:21.679 materialistic s uh no no see right now
01:42:24.960 only because both of us have a body here
01:42:27.880 we are able to house a mind on this
01:42:31.000 hello correct yeah we housing a mind on
01:42:34.520 this because we have a mind on this we
01:42:36.639 are housing ideas on it because we have
01:42:39.520 mind like this we are housing
01:42:41.000 mathematics on it you can't house all
01:42:43.639 this stuff if you didn't have a body so
01:42:45.880 there's nothing wrong with the body body
01:42:47.480 is the foundation without this what can
01:42:49.360 we do
01:42:53.199 I can ask you a very specific question
01:42:56.280 said Guru I'm fascinated in the question
01:42:59.480 of whether Consciousness because
01:43:00.960 Consciousness was the theme of this this
01:43:03.599 this wonderful meeting I'm interested in
01:43:06.560 the question of whether Consciousness is
01:43:09.560 actually generated by the brain or
01:43:12.400 whether Consciousness is actually merely
01:43:15.440 filtered through the brain in other
01:43:17.320 words where the Consciousness is a
01:43:18.960 little CA is just the manifestation of
01:43:21.920 conscious with a big sea and I'm and I'm
01:43:24.560 interested to know where you stand on
01:43:26.760 that because you you obviously
01:43:28.440 emphasizing the fact that our experience
01:43:30.560 of the world is is related to what
01:43:34.159 happens in the body but that doesn't
01:43:36.719 prove that the Consciousness is
01:43:38.199 generated by the body it merely says the
01:43:40.119 Consciousness is housed in the in the
01:43:42.400 body so how where do you stand on that
01:43:44.840 let me put this like this we were
01:43:47.679 talking about kalor we're talking about
01:43:50.360 time space as kala we talking about
01:43:53.800 mahakala which is time but not cyclical
01:43:56.679 in nature let's say that is
01:44:00.280 consciousness that is a
01:44:03.080 Stillness which is all pervading and
01:44:06.360 which is powerful today maybe they're
01:44:08.159 calling it dark energy whatever it is I
01:44:10.040 don't know how they see that uh I don't
01:44:12.280 know if there's any scientific way of
01:44:15.000 sensing Dark Energy I have no idea about
01:44:17.599 that so let me not comment but calling
01:44:20.239 it dark we agree because we call this
01:44:22.400 also dark because we're calling it kala
01:44:24.360 kala means also Darkness because space
01:44:27.280 is dark light is just a small happening
01:44:30.400 when something Burns it emanates light
01:44:33.239 and you can't see light you can only see
01:44:35.920 Its Reflection see right now there is
01:44:38.840 light passing here you can't see it only
01:44:41.159 if it's my hand stops it then you can
01:44:43.159 see it otherwise you can't see it so we
01:44:45.440 are not in Exploration we are not
01:44:47.440 concerned about light that's why first
01:44:49.159 thing we do is close our eyes
01:44:51.599 because light is a huge deception light
01:44:54.560 is giving you a wrong perspective of
01:44:56.760 everything so the moment you depend on
01:44:59.560 light you become physical you become
01:45:02.560 only physical with the opaque stuff I'm
01:45:05.480 saying you can see the hand you can't
01:45:06.920 even see the air that you
01:45:08.719 breathe because you can't see anything
01:45:11.960 vital here if you depend on light so
01:45:15.599 first thing is to close our eyes because
01:45:18.440 the senses are deceiving you
01:45:21.199 when we said Maya we did not say because
01:45:24.440 today philosophers are going about
01:45:26.080 saying nothing exists it is only there
01:45:28.639 because you're looking at it recently
01:45:30.199 some boy young boy asked me a question I
01:45:32.560 think that video is out somewhere today
01:45:34.599 this boy is asking sguru is Universe
01:45:37.920 there before me or is it just my
01:45:40.280 projection I said you a young man before
01:45:43.719 you came I was here and the universe was
01:45:48.119 there all right don't imagine such
01:45:51.639 things you came and projected the
01:45:53.199 universe for me all right I'm saying
01:45:56.400 this is simplistic understanding of
01:45:58.320 whatever profound Sciences somebody has
01:46:00.920 experienced it's all because of those
01:46:02.400 three scientists got the Nobel Prize
01:46:03.920 everybody thinks that now they know
01:46:05.679 Universe does not exist if Universe does
01:46:08.840 not exist what the hell are you doing
01:46:11.280 here it is it is just that it doesn't
01:46:14.199 exist the way you see it this is Maya
01:46:18.000 Maya means illusion illusion means that
01:46:21.159 not necessarily that it does not exist
01:46:24.119 it is not the way you think it is it's
01:46:27.080 not the way you are perceiving it for
01:46:28.920 the sake of your survival it is a
01:46:31.599 completely different phenomena but you
01:46:34.040 see it this way because this is how you
01:46:36.360 can survive otherwise you cannot survive
01:46:38.800 having said that so let us assume
01:46:42.400 this
01:46:44.159 noncyclical time which is the basis of
01:46:48.719 space is consciousness
01:46:52.440 well when we children all of us would
01:46:53.920 have blown a soap
01:46:55.599 bubble were you doing or you looking
01:46:57.760 through the telescope sir uh it depends
01:47:00.880 on the age but I mean I was blowing I
01:47:04.119 was blowing soap bubbles up to yeah soap
01:47:06.199 bubbles 15 suppose yeah you
01:47:10.520 blew you blew this big bubble I blew
01:47:14.080 that big bubble now I said see that's my
01:47:16.560 bubble the big bubble is my bubble this
01:47:18.440 is your bubble this is my bubble
01:47:20.920 it went
01:47:21.880 poop then I don't say this is my air
01:47:24.679 this is your
01:47:25.760 air it's the same air both of us
01:47:28.360 captured you captured this much I
01:47:29.840 captured that much so right now the
01:47:32.239 whole yogic system is focused on how
01:47:34.880 much can you capture if you capture more
01:47:38.199 of that that you're calling as
01:47:39.679 Consciousness which is a memoryless
01:47:42.320 intent
01:47:43.920 intelligence with which if you give it a
01:47:46.440 little memory it finds expression as
01:47:48.840 many many forms so you and me are one
01:47:51.920 type of forms that which found
01:47:54.320 expression because we gathered memory
01:47:56.679 this memory we call as karma as long as
01:47:59.599 your karma is there you can blow a
01:48:01.159 bubble because you got
01:48:02.719 soap even though there is air you can't
01:48:05.800 blow a bubble you need soap so soap is
01:48:09.639 this karmic information without
01:48:11.920 information you can't blow the bubble
01:48:14.360 now if you have if your soap is very
01:48:16.440 thick you can't blow a big bubble it'll
01:48:18.840 be small but heavy it doesn't fly just
01:48:20.920 goes down and bust on the you know
01:48:23.639 you've seen both you blow a lot of soap
01:48:26.920 it just gets heavy goes and lands there
01:48:29.400 you blow it really nicely light and
01:48:32.040 slowly becomes this big now it floats
01:48:34.840 away because it wall is so thin so if
01:48:38.719 you become like this this whatever this
01:48:41.480 sister what Teresa same same Teresa I'm
01:48:44.880 so sorry Teresa St Teresa blew a bubble
01:48:48.360 which is floating away
01:48:51.199 others see and think oh she descended
01:48:53.000 from the heaven no she's floating
01:48:55.199 because she's blown a big bubble of
01:48:57.719 herself now the bigger the bubble the
01:49:01.320 easier to burst
01:49:02.920 it and that is called Nana M MOA because
01:49:07.360 at some point we want to burst it why
01:49:09.800 would I want to burst my own life bubble
01:49:12.599 that is because you read the memory that
01:49:16.000 is written in this and you saw it
01:49:18.520 through and through because you just
01:49:21.280 have amnesia of even you don't even
01:49:24.560 remember how you were in your mother's
01:49:26.480 womb do
01:49:27.480 you no you don't remember you only
01:49:30.800 remember a few things here and there and
01:49:32.880 you pick up a few Pleasant things and
01:49:34.560 say my life is
01:49:36.480 fantastic if you actually look at it
01:49:39.040 whole of your life is generally grind
01:49:41.239 like he said you has to go shopping you
01:49:42.880 has to cook you has to wash It's a Grind
01:49:45.760 all right here and there moments of Joy
01:49:48.639 excitement this and that happened you're
01:49:51.360 just trying to remember that and paint a
01:49:53.679 beautiful picture of your life it's
01:49:55.599 wonderful psychologically it's a good
01:49:57.440 thing to do but it's not a way to
01:50:00.159 explore the reality of one's existence
01:50:03.520 see you wanting to live a good life is
01:50:05.719 one thing you want to know the basis of
01:50:08.400 the life itself is another thing this
01:50:10.840 aspiration may not be there in everybody
01:50:12.599 and it's perfectly fine somebody just
01:50:15.080 wants to live a good life all they want
01:50:16.800 is Pleasant chemistry we can teach them
01:50:18.920 a simple way how to make your Chemistry
01:50:21.800 Pleasant most people would be satisfied
01:50:24.440 with that because generally that's all
01:50:27.280 they go to Temples mosks chur where what
01:50:29.560 is their prayer what is the prayer on
01:50:31.320 the planet dear God give me this give me
01:50:33.400 that save me protect me make me healthy
01:50:36.280 give me a little more than my
01:50:39.520 neighbor yes what
01:50:41.560 else this is all the prayer on the
01:50:43.800 planet is so otherwise no no no not like
01:50:47.079 that I go there to thank thank what for
01:50:50.320 what you got last time so that he
01:50:52.599 doesn't forget you next Christmas this
01:50:54.719 happened let me tell you a little joke
01:50:56.599 so it's getting
01:50:57.960 [Music]
01:51:00.079 serious two boys Brothers went to
01:51:05.040 Grandmother's place for
01:51:07.760 Christmas so they required to pray
01:51:10.520 before they go to bed the Elder boy sat
01:51:13.000 down kneel down rather and started
01:51:15.520 praying he wanted a puppy for the
01:51:17.840 Christmas so he's praying dear Lord let
01:51:20.599 me have a puppy and what breed and
01:51:23.760 everything the younger boy who is wiser
01:51:27.360 screamed loudly dear Lord I need a
01:51:30.400 bicycle dear Lord I need a bicycle so
01:51:33.760 this older boy says what nonsense why
01:51:35.719 are you screaming god can hear said I
01:51:38.199 don't care whether God hears or not I
01:51:39.880 want Grandma to
01:51:48.960 hear can I um ask you another question
01:51:53.000 which is doesn't follow up for if it is
01:51:55.760 not asking too much if I give you a very
01:51:58.920 simple uh generally in science you call
01:52:01.760 it a theory yeah I call it my experience
01:52:05.159 if I give you a simple line can you
01:52:07.400 build mathematics for it because that
01:52:09.960 could be the telescope
01:52:13.040 right well my question was going to be
01:52:15.320 this we started off talking about uh the
01:52:19.480 cycle of the
01:52:21.199 universe and and I there was something
01:52:24.440 which intrigued me I I in one of your
01:52:26.199 films or one of the interviews I've
01:52:29.560 heard you talking about the fact that
01:52:31.520 there were um a certain number of Cycles
01:52:35.119 84 84 exactly and so I was intrigued
01:52:38.840 about this not 42 which is the answer to
01:52:41.840 everything in Western but 84 which of
01:52:44.480 course which is twice 84 is twice 42 so
01:52:49.000 but I'm
01:52:50.440 fascinated where does the figure 84 come
01:52:53.639 from and why
01:52:56.560 84 well you already heard that video so
01:52:59.440 I will leave that part no but they
01:53:01.159 didn't and I'm
01:53:04.400 I see uh there is a continuous talk
01:53:08.719 about Big Bang Yeah I was talking to one
01:53:11.880 of the scientists who's written a book
01:53:14.400 on endless universe yes endless universe
01:53:17.880 that's the title of the book Paul Paul
01:53:19.199 sonof
01:53:20.599 yes so I met him in D and I was he was
01:53:24.040 setting up a computer simulation of how
01:53:27.679 it could have
01:53:29.079 been when I looked at the computer
01:53:31.560 simulation this is a form every day we
01:53:34.360 work with we call this linga the word
01:53:38.560 linga comes from the word Lina Lina
01:53:41.679 means the
01:53:43.400 form we call it the form the form form F
01:53:48.560 form what do you say H form form form
01:53:52.639 form sorry form oh form form thank
01:53:58.960 you it's my English
01:54:01.920 accent okay the
01:54:06.840 fool oh now I
01:54:10.920 understand so we call it the
01:54:17.760 yeah why it's called the form is because
01:54:22.239 it was the first
01:54:23.560 form so when he breathed out and when
01:54:28.000 energy played upon his body and little
01:54:32.079 particles of creation started forming
01:54:34.239 cycles and creating making mahakala a
01:54:37.480 great time into a simple time process of
01:54:40.360 atomic time then he
01:54:44.639 red when he rode it Rose like that the
01:54:49.800 that form I am seeing on his computer
01:54:53.679 this is a form we always you know people
01:54:55.800 worship and work with in so many ways I
01:54:58.679 see this guy had it on his computer I
01:55:00.599 said how did you get this he said he's
01:55:02.960 been working on simulating the Big
01:55:05.440 Bang then I asked him a simple question
01:55:09.040 is it possible there could have been
01:55:10.760 many
01:55:12.440 bangs
01:55:14.520 he did like that and then he said
01:55:18.040 possible then I said
01:55:20.280 if there are many banks see if you have
01:55:22.400 an
01:55:23.199 automobile if you take off the manifold
01:55:26.400 you will see the engine will go bang
01:55:28.280 bang bang bang if you throttle up it'll
01:55:31.520 Roar so I said if there were a series of
01:55:34.560 banks could it have been a
01:55:38.119 ro he said why not
01:55:41.199 possibly I said we've always been saying
01:55:43.719 it's a roar so we called the first form
01:55:46.960 as the rudra rudra means the one who
01:55:50.199 Roars he roared like this then we
01:55:53.560 evolved many forms to describe this this
01:55:56.639 was mahakala this was kala this was
01:55:59.440 rudra this a first form and then the
01:56:02.280 many forms how they came there are
01:56:04.079 various aspects to
01:56:07.400 it these things are not today these
01:56:10.920 things have been spoken Millennia ago
01:56:13.920 how do they know all this the simple
01:56:16.159 thing is like this if you look into this
01:56:18.920 piece of creat
01:56:20.400 the whole creation is present in a
01:56:23.119 footprint
01:56:25.239 form by looking at my footprint suppose
01:56:28.360 I walk through the garden You by looking
01:56:30.199 at my footprint you can measure my
01:56:33.159 weight my
01:56:35.079 height my gate you can even guess how
01:56:39.239 smart am I depending on how I navigate
01:56:43.280 through spaces you can see how smart you
01:56:45.920 are in this country everybody's uh you
01:56:48.440 know uh alizing this all the time the
01:56:51.079 Native Americans could read the
01:56:53.440 footprint and they could read the tracks
01:56:56.360 how many people what is happening this
01:56:58.280 that that lot of detail into it because
01:57:00.920 the footprint leaves a whole lot of
01:57:03.480 things so in many
01:57:05.880 ways various aspects of this
01:57:11.079 creation you will never be able to see
01:57:14.280 this through physical approach or even
01:57:17.079 mental approach because mind we see it
01:57:18.760 as a physical projection mind is a
01:57:21.280 little subtler projection of the M of
01:57:23.440 the body so these things cannot be seen
01:57:27.199 But the footprint can be seen with the
01:57:30.000 footprint you can know most of the
01:57:32.199 things only thing you cannot know
01:57:35.360 is what is my nature you cannot know but
01:57:38.679 you can figure out if I walk through
01:57:41.119 let's say a difficult terrain you can
01:57:43.440 easily figure out how smart I
01:57:46.000 am you can figure out what is my
01:57:48.480 thinking people do this looking at the
01:57:51.599 animal footprints I do this myself
01:57:55.040 looking at the footprint I know where it
01:57:56.960 is going is it hungry is it not hungry
01:57:59.239 is it hunting is it just walking around
01:58:01.719 I I've survived in the jungles because I
01:58:04.079 see these things very clearly so looking
01:58:07.239 at the footprint of creation if you have
01:58:10.239 lot of these numbers which I don't have
01:58:12.040 no numbers in my head only number I have
01:58:14.719 is this
01:58:16.000 one or sometimes it becomes like this I
01:58:19.520 don't have any other numbers because of
01:58:22.000 that I don't bother about that but if
01:58:23.880 you have all these numbers if I show you
01:58:26.440 the footprint can you build a
01:58:28.199 mathematical ladder to that if you build
01:58:31.239 that we can say scientists are seeing
01:58:35.360 something that their eyes or their
01:58:36.840 telescopes cannot
01:58:39.159 see yes but can I ask a followup
01:58:42.679 question because one of the reasons
01:58:45.239 cosmologists like myself like to invoke
01:58:48.159 psychic universes
01:58:50.199 is because of the Apparently miraculous
01:58:53.679 fine tunings of the physical constants
01:58:56.560 which are required for life to arise
01:58:58.480 this is what's called the anthropic
01:59:01.599 principle that there are unexplained
01:59:04.520 coincidences between the constants of
01:59:06.280 physics which are required for observers
01:59:08.800 to arise in the universe and one of the
01:59:11.639 explanations of this is that you have
01:59:14.040 many cycles of the universe expansion
01:59:16.400 and recollapse and every time you have a
01:59:18.960 balce you you change the constants and
01:59:21.920 so the idea is that many of these Cycles
01:59:24.719 are just empty no mind no consciousness
01:59:28.360 but every now and then the the constant
01:59:30.560 have the right values for Consciousness
01:59:32.320 to arise and so one reason you invoke
01:59:36.480 cycles of the universe is that that
01:59:38.800 means occasionally you're going to be in
01:59:42.119 a universe well you have to be in one of
01:59:44.520 the Cycles which is suitable for life so
01:59:47.920 this is one example of Multiverse does
01:59:50.880 that tie in at all with the reason for
01:59:52.880 having 84 see this 84 how we are talking
01:59:56.239 about it is there are yogis who have
01:59:59.079 done a whole lot of mathematics to it
02:00:01.280 I'm not one of them I'm I'm good by
02:00:03.960 knowing it by my experience I don't wish
02:00:06.239 to write it on the
02:00:07.960 Blackboard I don't have the competence
02:00:10.079 let me say that competence comes only
02:00:12.800 when you care for something otherwise
02:00:15.079 you don't acquire those
02:00:16.920 competences so these 84 out of this
02:00:21.159 84 many have dissolved their bare wague
02:00:25.599 footprint is there but they have
02:00:27.400 dissolved but the footprint is there in
02:00:29.800 this 21 of them have a little larger
02:00:32.800 footprint oh out of this 21 10 are
02:00:37.560 almost
02:00:39.040 non-physical non-physical let's say the
02:00:41.960 remaining 11 are somewhat mildly
02:00:45.599 physical but the last four are
02:00:49.679 reasonably
02:00:51.280 physical so we see this number 21 as an
02:00:56.079 important process whatever we want to do
02:00:58.239 we do it in 21 minutes in 21 ways and
02:01:01.639 all this because these 21 still have a
02:01:05.000 footprint if you want to rise beyond
02:01:07.599 your physicality
02:01:09.320 absolutely you have to rise beyond all
02:01:11.679 the 21 but you don't have to bother
02:01:13.840 about those things because if you rise
02:01:15.920 above the physical nature not just in
02:01:18.199 terms of physical body but even the
02:01:21.239 information is physical all information
02:01:23.480 that you carry which makes you you
02:01:26.599 whether Dead or Alive it still makes you
02:01:28.679 you that one we want to rise beyond that
02:01:32.280 so that imprint carries all this and out
02:01:35.800 of the 84 21 are still manifest in
02:01:39.440 different levels of for lack of words
02:01:42.400 I'm saying
02:01:43.440 transience from almost nonex others
02:01:46.320 below 21 they're complete completely
02:01:49.440 gone but their footprint is still there
02:01:52.520 they don't have any influence or impact
02:01:54.800 their qualities are not imprinted in us
02:01:57.880 but these 21 qualities are there in us
02:02:00.760 how many more will
02:02:02.760 happen 112 will happen 112
02:02:08.199 112 each one of them may take whatever
02:02:10.960 they they've calculated the Yas have to
02:02:13.520 how long it'll take that's not my number
02:02:15.400 game is not my game so 112 * it will
02:02:19.360 happen after that it will manifest in a
02:02:22.159 way that it's non-physical and becomes a
02:02:25.040 Perpetual Universe a non-physical
02:02:27.920 universe will manifest itself that it
02:02:31.040 doesn't need physical matter but exists
02:02:34.520 and even individual existence may happen
02:02:37.119 we don't know it may happen or one
02:02:40.360 massive happening may happen but a
02:02:43.000 proper manifestation of universe without
02:02:46.679 physicality when that happens the that
02:02:49.159 is the final one this is seen as a thing
02:02:52.560 but I know science will not ever go with
02:02:55.040 that so let us leave those things all I
02:02:57.320 am saying is this simple thing that I'm
02:03:00.079 talking about if I give you the
02:03:01.599 footprints as to how this is evolved if
02:03:04.719 you can create a mathematical backbone
02:03:06.760 to it I think it'll make sense to lots
02:03:09.159 of people and you will be seeing further
02:03:11.480 not with physical eyes but
02:03:13.159 mathematically you will be seeing much
02:03:15.119 further than where you are seeing right
02:03:17.000 now that's fascinating because that is
02:03:19.599 not one of the standard modern
02:03:21.040 cosmological theories you see so but
02:03:23.280 what you're saying is that you've got
02:03:24.960 these Cycles which at some stage evolve
02:03:28.400 beyond the straightforward physical the
02:03:30.560 beautiful thing is they're clearly
02:03:32.840 defining this because the Indian
02:03:35.800 cosmology is built and personified in a
02:03:38.760 certain way most people Indian origin
02:03:41.920 people will know this there is a coiled
02:03:44.719 up
02:03:45.520 snake upon which a God is lying down
02:03:48.639 yeah
02:03:49.440 that call that snake is called
02:03:52.400 shesha shesha means when we learning
02:03:55.239 mathematics in Indian languages the
02:03:57.119 Remer what do you call
02:03:59.040 it remainer remainer is called shesha
02:04:02.840 what is remaining is shha even in our
02:04:04.840 common language we use that shesha means
02:04:06.880 something left over so this this sake is
02:04:12.000 the shesha upon which once again
02:04:14.679 creation
02:04:16.159 begins so this shha left
02:04:19.440 The Leftovers are there from last 21
02:04:24.320 universes but the imprint of the left
02:04:26.960 over is diminishing as you go backwards
02:04:29.960 and increasing as you come forwards but
02:04:32.040 the last four are
02:04:35.119 significant and so was Consciousness in
02:04:38.239 only some of these univers no all of
02:04:40.960 them were conscious fully manifest
02:04:43.040 universes but they ran out of time that
02:04:46.840 what was kala became mahakala but it
02:04:50.239 left
02:04:52.079 Footprints in some Footprints they're
02:04:54.360 very strong we can see exact nature of
02:04:56.719 what they are some Footprints are very
02:04:58.800 weak that we can barely see that they
02:05:01.040 are
02:05:02.159 there and is this Evolution towards
02:05:05.599 after 112 Cycles a non-physical state
02:05:09.599 does that correspond to a a sort
02:05:12.599 of evolution of
02:05:15.320 Consciousness in a way it is like
02:05:19.239 Consciousness
02:05:20.520 graduating that without physical form it
02:05:23.199 can manifest
02:05:26.960 itself that's
02:05:28.800 a that's a very
02:05:31.239 positive note maybe which I know we've
02:05:34.400 come to the end of our two hours but
02:05:36.239 that's a that's a really interesting
02:05:39.000 thought and but especially that you made
02:05:40.880 it
02:05:43.119 mathematical thank you sir you came all
02:05:45.239 the way thank you very much sir
02:05:47.679 fantastic
02:05:50.710 [Music]
02:05:58.100 [Music]
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