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User: Caption: [Laughter] isn&#39;t language amazing amazing thing and it&#39;s it&#39;s a constantly evolving thing as well it doesn&#39;t stand still it doesn&#39;t no and it&#39;s really neat to see what people say now thank you hello everyone thank you for joining dreaming english and today we have two english teachers and we have ken clay from the um from the uk and myself from united states so we&#39;ll all go around and um introduce ourselves and then have a nice conversation so i&#39;m kevin henry i&#39;m irish born i spent the first 17 years of my life in ireland but i&#39;ve been living in london since then um i&#39;ve done various jobs in public service local government stuff like that a lot of it to do with adult staff training but i also uh sort of slipped over into teaching english and then i did a qualification in uh english language teaching uh english as a foreign language or a second language and i&#39;ve also done my university degree in english literature and linguistics so that&#39;s me in a nutshell so i&#39;m the other english teacher in this group i&#39;m from the u.s i&#39;ve always lived in the us i live i grew up in chicago so i have a midwestern accent and then i now i live in north carolina so i&#39;ve been teaching english reading i started with kindergartners about 30 years ago and then um i love teaching phonics today so i love teaching pronunciation vocabulary how to say words correctly you know some grammar you don&#39;t you can&#39;t speak unless you have good grammar but that&#39;s not my focus usually my focus is on the differences between long and short vowels and how to say words in the american way versus the british way things like that and so i love talking to international students a lot and that&#39;s how i met rachelle and ken i also teach locally it&#39;s what i do for a living local students that are going through elementary school high school for test prep and things like that and then adults so i teach adults how to speak better for their jobs business english or just everyday english um so they can you know maybe get that promotion they want or whatever it is so i love language i love linguistics i&#39;ve never taken any linguistic courses but i have a master&#39;s in education and i also know french so i can compare that so but i love looking at the the roots and things like that of words and and trying to help people with whatever they need i think i&#39;ll add similar to you i i work in um high school not an english teacher but i do all the college applications um and then i&#39;ll do the financial aid applications with them so that&#39;s just me in a nutshell um what i do can i ask you russian before you go on to ken um what accent do you have because um lauren mentioned what accent she had oh right right so i&#39;m from massachusetts i don&#39;t really talk like people in boston that would drop their r&#39;s i think that my accent is pretty neutral as far as as far as um accents go i&#39;m told that it&#39;s like it&#39;s very clear and and easy to understand but people that would live um closer to boston would probably say park the khan ha yadu that&#39;s like the very stereotypical but they would drop those r&#39;s you need to park your car and harvard yacht i think you sound closer to new yorker but not quite as strong nothing forgotten nothing for nothing so you don&#39;t think that&#39;s an accent no it&#39;s it&#39;s new york that&#39;s the way we speak forget about it okay yeah that&#39;s what i was interested in is because as somebody who was brought up in ireland for 17 years so i&#39;ve seen a very strong irish accent and living in london for so long i know it&#39;s influenced by living in london yeah so new york is your base is it new york is your current base it&#39;s close i mean i live um three hours north of new york in in near boston i&#39;ve heard dialect coaches talk about the difference between the boston accent and the new york accent and there are differences but they&#39;re all in the east um mom ken and uh probably people will know me i&#39;ve um i kind of help out on lots of language forums and i&#39;ve got i kind of got into it by by accident really because i was on spanish forums and people kept saying can you help us on the english forums and as a consequence i kind of got dragged into quite a lot of forums and for some some unknown reason and i don&#39;t know how i&#39;ve kind of ended up sort of being an english teacher without having any understanding of my own language so most of the time it&#39;s it&#39;s just speaking to people and just helping in that way or just slightly correcting things and just leaving messages so i think unfortunately there are going to be quite a few people um speaking with a very northern accent somewhere in the world so i apologize in advance for all of those who are learning english and learning my pronunciation of various words i am sorry to you all so sorry i don&#39;t think you have a bad pronunciation i think you do just fine so don&#39;t put yourself down you&#39;re good and i think like what i see you doing ken is like teaching in what i call context which is how i teach like you&#39;ll make this little video of how you are um like cooking something and you show the kitchen and you&#39;re showing all the stuff and like you&#39;re teaching the people in context i&#39;ve learned best by like and i learned best by that it&#39;s no grammar at all it&#39;s just all stories and all uh conversation and so i think that&#39;s what&#39;s great about what you&#39;re doing in the groups is like really teaching people by context yeah yeah there&#39;s a few english teachers on youtube that i respect vanessa is one of them and she does the same thing cooking shows with her her son or whatever and then she just picks up vocabulary words or idioms that she wants to highlight gives them as a pdf and that&#39;s how you learn and she also has a membership i want to emulate that someday i think that would be awesome but i do little videos on youtube that are like points of grammar or points of pronunciation like the difference in pronunciation between love and blood there&#39;s no difference it&#39;s just spelling difference or the difference between breathe and breath or you know things like that so um i love pointing out the differences because my students say oh dude no no it&#39;s not blue it&#39;s blood let me make a video on that and then i&#39;ll do that so i love doing that kind of thing and when you find out what works for you what your point of you know expertise is why not share that with other people you know find a way these are like two minute videos so i just started doing them this year i decided i gotta do something that&#39;s short and sweet because people don&#39;t have a long attention span so let&#39;s just point out a couple of words you know maybe we&#39;re some people confuse like accept and accept or things like that and then we can just put them in a short video and people you know watch it and get more value yeah absolutely i kind of do the same thing like i have i started doing like things with the youtube shorts that are like one minute or less teach a little teaching idioms is something that i can teach in context i can draw pictures like sometimes i&#39;ll change the background and i&#39;ll have the background kind of like help tell the story of what i&#39;m talking about so similar things like that yeah it&#39;s probably one of the most difficult areas for a language learner actually because idioms just don&#39;t follow particular rules as such right and you take say an idiom of two words and you&#39;ve got a verb and a preposition and separately they work quite differently and together in this unique situation they take on this new meaning and there isn&#39;t even a formula that you can give to students to say well if this happens then you know this is an idiom or right right so you just have to learn idioms and as you said rochelle it&#39;s another example of learning in context and because how do you how do you know when you&#39;re using the idiom correctly and so that&#39;s really difficult to teach i have great sympathy for language learners yeah and i always can tell when somebody&#39;s from another country like britain um when they use a a idiom that i wouldn&#39;t use like um you know just something that that oh no we don&#39;t say that in america but you know you might see it over there it is perfectly normal but um there&#39;s a lady that&#39;s on my laurels learning lab on um whatsapp and she&#39;s also on my facebook page and she sometimes gives examples of this guy&#39;s training and she is really studious she&#39;s from vietnam i think and she says i i learned these five idioms this week and this is how i think i say them and i&#39;m like yeah that&#39;s good but i&#39;ve never heard this video idiom so i don&#39;t think we use it here you know or she&#39;ll maybe usually she says the right when i do sat prep for example you know with americans sometimes they don&#39;t get how to eat you know or maybe there&#39;s words that they don&#39;t know very well they&#39;ve learned something for the first time and they don&#39;t use it correctly so you&#39;re right it&#39;s difficult to know how to use them correctly yeah there&#39;s an idiom actually that i always assumed as american in origin and it turns out americans don&#39;t recognize a lot of americans don&#39;t recognize events and it&#39;s an incredibly popular one on these islands you know the uk and ireland um which is somebody has lost the plot some if you lose the plot i mean ken recognizes it immediately but it&#39;s an incredibly calm it&#39;s very it&#39;s a very powerful one it&#39;s um it&#39;s informal you wouldn&#39;t use it in a formal situation but it&#39;s very popular and very common and it just means you know you&#39;ve lost the plot you&#39;ve lost the thread or you&#39;ve lost a sense of logic and you just say you&#39;ve lost the blood and to me it sounded american you know like hollywood or something hollywood class and it turns out it&#39;s not american at all you have you heard of it before no i haven&#39;t no i haven&#39;t lost the plot yeah yeah i lose the plot it&#39;s incredibly popular yeah and it&#39;s very expressive it&#39;s very expressive that&#39;s what i like about idioms yeah yeah you&#39;ve let the cat out of the bag you explode the surprise and i always tell my students um or anybody that asks you know think of it as a literal thing at first like somebody kicked the bucket what does that mean you kick a bucket well where does that come from that comes from when somebody was hanging and then they had a bucket under them and somebody kicked the bucket that means they died so it&#39;s now figurative did you really die or did somebody no it&#39;s just a you know a figurative thing or maybe it is a literal thing maybe we use them as a euphemism so euphemism is when you say something nice about something that&#39;s unpleasant so big bucket is one of those i think you&#39;re right i think a lot of them are historically literal um but they&#39;ve they&#39;ve been um semantically bleached or or shifted in their semantic where i look up the whole like historic yeah where did it come from yeah so and things like that there was a number of them like one of them was like an arm and a leg which i thought was like okay if you had a painting and you wanted to have your arms and legs it would cost more but it didn&#39;t actually come from that it was like no it was the same amount of money like it just matters how big the painting is um but it was actually coming out of like war when the the cost of war was people were losing their arms and legs that&#39;s where the actual but people there&#39;s like this whole like mythology that people think that it came from when when people were making paintings that they would charge you more if they included your arms and legs like no that wasn&#39;t that&#39;s crazy there&#39;s a lot of misconceptions aren&#39;t there yes so then i&#39;ll make a video about that and you know like kind of like teach you know the meaning of it but then also like a little bit of historical context because i think that will make it a little interesting and maybe people will like remember it if i teach that historical context yeah i have a couple of british ones if you guys want to uh hear these so the first one is don&#39;t throw the baby out with the bathwater really that&#39;s a british one yeah i thought that would be universal yeah well maybe it is but the reason that i say it is because the way i heard it and you know you hear um histories of um where these things came from and what the story is is that back in britain in whatever 1600s 1700s when they didn&#39;t have running water they just had one bathtub everybody used the water in this bathtub and you only got to take a bath like once a week or once a month or whatever so the father went first because he&#39;s the patriarch then the mother then the kids then the baby by the time the baby gets in the bath water it&#39;s so murky you can&#39;t even see the baby in there don&#39;t throw the baby out with the bath water yeah and the second one is when it&#39;s raining cats and dogs and there&#39;s a thatched roof and they&#39;re they&#39;re animals but cats and dogs are up there for the warmth and then all of a sudden it starts raining and then they slide off the roof and people are thinking oh it&#39;s raining cats and dogs so have you ever heard the explanations what&#39;s what&#39;s the what&#39;s the you do you know what the baby in the bathwater how it&#39;s used in modern british english or you just know the history of it now the history well i think what it means is don&#39;t um don&#39;t mix a project just because you don&#39;t like one detail about it exactly yes don&#39;t throw out the good with the badge exactly with grace respect to babies [Laughter] and raining cats and dogs i don&#39;t really know i mean oh in in french the saying is it&#39;s raining like hordes so the water is so thick then it&#39;s raining like quartz so it&#39;s a similar expression meaning the same thing but it doesn&#39;t sound the same at all yeah cats and dogs is it&#39;s raining very heavily basically that&#39;s all exactly yeah which is one of those things which is not really used today i mean i wouldn&#39;t use it i&#39;d i&#39;d i&#39;d probably say it&#39;s hammering it down or it&#39;s lashing it down but the last time i used cats and dogs is is yonks ago i mean absolutely i can&#39;t remember it&#39;s but i you see it all the time with something which is taught and i keep saying to people well it&#39;s good to know it but actually i i i wouldn&#39;t use it and i really don&#39;t know well i think i mean i use it for sure and then i guess in all other languages or at least every person that i&#39;ve spoken to like in spanish and french and in italy they&#39;ll say that they say the same thing like they might have some other things to say it&#39;s raining hard but they also will say in in their own language it&#39;s raining cats and dogs so it must be pretty universal and you will have regional ones i mean that one you mentioned ken hammering is not one i&#39;m familiar with so you have regional british sayings as well yeah the hammering one down i think it&#39;s very much northeast um i mean i think it&#39;s one of the things that if you&#39;re a native you&#39;re going to pick it up and you i suspect you will pick up the variation so if you change the animals in terms of the reigning you&#39;re going to understand what it&#39;s about because you know it is it makes sense i mean i know in terms of some of the idioms i you know i&#39;m aware of the history is quite important they and i think a lot of them actually come out of the military as well so seven sheets to the window um i do know four of seven sheets shelving sheets to the wind isn&#39;t it to the wind no what is what is that meaning because i&#39;m not familiar with that one seven sheets is you&#39;re drunk oh right okay right or maybe maybe i have heard that one but i haven&#39;t like one thing i learned when i went to britain when i was in school because i was an english literature major so we went to london ireland and wales um for my senior summer semester so one thing i learned when i was in britain and i didn&#39;t drink a lot so i hung out with these british guys for a little while that that drank and they&#39;re like oh we&#39;re gonna go get pissed i&#39;m like go get mad no no we&#39;re gonna go get drunk i&#39;m like oh that&#39;s what it means yeah but i&#39;ve noticed that with the with american tv programs um generally it seems to be you know to be pissed is to be uh angry in american english but i i&#39;ve also heard americans using it in the british way of some uh no actually no it&#39;s the other way around um to be pissed off would be the in the british version of pissed um but i&#39;ve heard americans use that as well some americans use that as well i guess you don&#39;t need the off to be angry yes yeah laurel can i just point something out which is quite interesting and this is this is a language but of a different sort never do that to a british person it&#39;s actually offensive yeah really that&#39;s defensive that&#39;s not huh okay comes under the banner i think yeah yeah yeah but i mean that you know it&#39;s this thing about language because language isn&#39;t just language i mean you know there are gestures which translate between yeah and cultures and you think they would but they don&#39;t but yeah i know it&#39;s not going to point at somebody like don&#39;t do this right um you know i you know i don&#39;t need to i mean this is victory or this is victory i&#39;m not sure which that&#39;s victory yes that would be that&#39;s a bit like that in terms of how how it works in britain so you know lang lang you know i&#39;m gonna say language is more than just what comes out of your mouth you know body language i mean there are certain gestures you wouldn&#39;t do in spain already or or else because they&#39;re actually they don&#39;t have the same significance in other yeah in other cultures and you would have thought so um it&#39;s just an fyi i didn&#39;t even realize i was doing it so you know well you wouldn&#39;t because it&#39;s it&#39;s it&#39;s not it&#39;s not culturally culturally relevant i you know it&#39;s all it&#39;s all forms of communicating i mean so many times when i&#39;m talking to people i i use the visual language to to help clarify things or to give you a confirmation that they&#39;re doing something right because i think you know one of the things there&#39;s a language learner as well is oh some of these problems you have just getting your head around and i i&#39;m pretty you know idioms i&#39;m trying to explain idioms to people it&#39;s like they are just totally illogical at times you just kind of think other languages just don&#39;t seem to have them in the way that we do and you wonder how the hell english has developed i mean i i always call english dogs dinner of a language because i do think it is because you look at spanish and it&#39;s logical you know the the grammar is logical to an extent i mean you know it&#39;s it&#39;s 99 it&#39;s 90 logical 10 illogical it seems to me that english is 10 logically 90 illogical i don&#39;t know i mean i&#39;m not a teacher so uh did you recognize that expression or dog&#39;s gender is that i&#39;ve never heard that yeah because i when i heard ken says i thought now that&#39;s probably one that you&#39;ve never heard dog&#39;s dinner then no i haven&#39;t done that me neither making a mess what does it mean a mess of something you&#39;re making a mess of something totally honest yeah yeah so you know how you might mash up the dog&#39;s dinner it works it feeds the animal but it doesn&#39;t look particularly great and i think you know that&#39;s how i describe english when i decide it works it does what it needs to do but if you look at it against a logical language yeah he&#39;s gonna go this is a mess this is a company i mean i think of it as like a like a mud of a language because it&#39;s a mix of like you know dramatic and latin and some greek in there and just like the languages yeah yeah there&#39;s a lot of languages that feed into english to make it multicultural you know and that&#39;s why there&#39;s so many roles so and that&#39;s why the spelling has changed that&#39;s why everything is the way it is um and also you know you have um mistakes that happen with with if you don&#39;t have a silent letter in there you know silent letters are there for a purpose and so if you don&#39;t have that then it could be plain or it could be planned which one is it you know hop or hope and so you have to same right so people understand it and if there&#39;s not a there&#39;s sometimes there&#39;s a faux pas something bad that um somebody will say because you didn&#39;t spell it right so uh-huh um i love french expressions putting them in our language you know fosa me is a false friend so that&#39;s a word that means something i was just gonna i mean because because you&#39;re dealing with foreign students do you see do you see certain languages having problems with english and are they sort of fairly consistent some languages pick up on english easier than others i mean have you had have you guys noticed anything about working with the latin but the the germanic languages and the latin based languages um and this is obviously from a european perspective uh those speakers tend to have it find it easier to learn english whereas if you&#39;ve got somebody coming from sino-tibetan or any of the indian languages i mean one word that people beyond europe have great difficulty with is accountant because you know to french speakers of spanish speakers it sounds very similar to something like they know whereas to a japanese person it&#39;s completely different and they&#39;re they can&#39;t connect it at all to their own language so yeah there are vocabulary problems sometimes that some students have problems with there&#39;s cultural things too so i mean i know that people from like the middle east love to call people dear like okay dear and that is not something that i would say you can call me right away because i don&#39;t know you that well you know so they they and also they sometimes call me sir because i&#39;m like i&#39;m like no you call me ma&#39;am well where does that come from my damn okay you know and so they&#39;re all confused well what do i call you miss archer okay now well i&#39;m married but miss is easier than misses you know so it&#39;s all this whole like cultural thing of how you say things i was thinking as we were talking about that is that like the spanish they&#39;ll always say like it&#39;s always like um love like um or um like me more um everybody doesn&#39;t matter like my co-worker so like she was always like every everyone is miami um all the students and that&#39;s like just how she it&#39;s the same thing as dear like it it&#39;s right that&#39;s how she addresses people it&#39;s interesting because i i help a young guy from um nepal and he calls me teacher he just calls me teacher he doesn&#39;t use my name and then a lot of people don&#39;t mr ken i keep you can&#39;t do that in english it works in your own language you can&#39;t do that in english it&#39;s just wrong mr clay but mr ken you can&#39;t do um coming back in the uk you&#39;re talking about spain where i come from we used the word pet hello pet how are you doing you got a yorkshire hello duck then you go somewhere else it&#39;s hello him i&#39;m trying to remember what else um or in the uk and somebody called me love or pet you know if they were a nice older woman i would have no problem with that yeah yeah but i mean that&#39;s just because that&#39;s the way it is in the uk it&#39;s just you know originally those words of not so much affection but just those words we used when we referred to other people they they changed they literally changed from city to city from area to area um i get sisters a lot especially from people from india i&#39;m sister everybody is like my dear sister yeah i think it&#39;s out of respect but dear sister i think caribbean people use auntie and uncle quite a bit oh yeah very respectful thing in spanish because they they i think they are always calling everybody tio and tias and that&#39;s right yeah but it&#39;s interesting laura i think you i don&#39;t know you kind of reacted when ken was talking about the word love because um i think there&#39;s a gender issue there as well with the word love that if as a woman if a man maybe a young man i mean and it&#39;s all situational and sometimes be perfectly okay even with the man but i think it&#39;s more likely to be offensive if a man calls a woman love because it has all sorts of power dynamics going on in some cases um way you would not expect it in a formal situation anybody or somebody lies very informal a lot of it is is sort of in a in a merchandising situation where you&#39;re in a shop or a store or at a market or something like that where some you know that&#39;s the most common use but um i mean even in london and it&#39;s very rare now but i remember years ago you would even have men and there were usually would be very traditional londoners cockneys probably and they would call men love and you think what yeah but in the uk and australia too base would be fine yeah well yeah the aussies and the kiwis used it but it&#39;s it&#39;s it comes from again it&#39;s a naval term it&#39;s a naval term but it&#39;s it&#39;s the standards it wasn&#39;t the standard one in the uk&#39;s mate how you doing mate you&#39;re right what&#39;s happening and it&#39;s all made and that&#39;s it again it&#39;s one of those things it tends to be male to male not so much to female it just it always strikes me as a bit of an odd one when you use it towards a woman but women use it within themselves so you know with groups of women but um it&#39;s you know it&#39;s how it&#39;s changing ken it&#39;s changing i think things are changing because it&#39;s even like the guys like hey guys and it doesn&#39;t matter um the gender that yeah yeah sometimes i mean i call women guys and i&#39;m like well maybe they they&#39;ll understand that i&#39;m saying it&#39;s guys and girls yeah that&#39;s true i mean it&#39;s the same in the uk these days you&#39;re going to a restaurant well this has been a great conversation maybe we can do this again i just want to like be mindful of time so yeah we definitely need to have a part two yeah we should all come up with three idioms and then bring them to the table but one thing real quick um and it was like the conversation when i first met ken was here in massachusetts and i think it&#39;s now worldwide but here in massachusetts we started saying wicked like wicked good cupcakes wicked good pizza and i know that it&#39;s spread around the world but we have like in fact the wicked good cupcake company that is based in boston and mother and daughter you know duo that started making good cupcakes but this week a good pizza would get good this we could get that and i know it&#39;s like all new england and now probably spread i think people in um other countries say it but it started here in massachusetts i&#39;ve never heard that before i&#39;ve never heard wicked i mean you will hear you know in a very slangy informal way you&#39;ll hear but you never hear good with it wicked you know includes good so something is wicked or is sick yeah it&#39;s almost like an oxymoron right absolutely isn&#39;t language amazing thing and it&#39;s it&#39;s a constantly evolving thing as well it doesn&#39;t stand still it doesn&#39;t no and it&#39;s really neat to see what people say now yeah i mean look i mean you know looking at old films the way language has developed how we use like words now which were not used 50 years ago uh have been dropped or the meaning has now changed so i will point out one thing with the british is that you either say the t really strong or you don&#39;t say it at all the t so yeah yeah there&#39;s a there&#39;s a guy i know one of the forums he kind of analyzes language and he&#39;s come slightly confused by me because my accent has moved so it&#39;s moved from the northeast but it hasn&#39;t quite become southern so it&#39;s somewhere in the middle and he says you know you should be doing it this way but you know just i&#39;ve just evolved and developed to deal with the fact that i deal with so many foreign clients in the past and if i was to speak with my native uh dialect uh and and kevin will know this people would just be going is that actually english because it can be really really strong i come from an area where it is it was still is very very strong um and i&#39;ve just had to evolve and adapt and adopt the way i speak so that become more neutral and sometimes it&#39;s about speed as well sometimes it&#39;s just about speed you slow down and people find you more intelligible and i&#39;ll make one last comment um is that when i teach people how to speak english more like an american um or they you know they understand things then they go back home to brazil or wherever they&#39;re from they&#39;re like you don&#39;t sound like a brazilian anymore you sound more american so now they don&#39;t fit in anywhere next time okay yeah all the best all right thank you kevin thank you peace [Music] you
Description: This was a conversation with two English Teachers and 4 native speakers, including Laurel from https://www.youtube.com/c/LaurelsLearningLab

and Ken Clay from the UK

Kevin from Ireland

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#comprehensibleinput
#DreamingEnglish
Title: Teaching English 👩‍🏫 with Native Speakers including Ken Clay
Language: en
Assistant: