Please diarize the next subtitle of the Mindwalk 1990 movie:

1
00:01:18,099 --> 00:01:20,014
Hello?

2
00:01:20,094 --> 00:01:21,844
Hello, Tom?

3
00:01:22,068 --> 00:01:27,676
Jack? Jack, it's... What, is there
a red alert on or something?

4
00:01:28,180 --> 00:01:30,044
Am I calling too late?

5
00:01:30,204 --> 00:01:33,668
No, no... It's just that the hours
are too later here...

6
00:01:33,812 --> 00:01:37,965
Are you O.K.?
Is everything all right?

7
00:01:38,109 --> 00:01:39,901
Not really.

8
00:01:40,085 --> 00:01:42,750
I need some help.

9
00:01:44,077 --> 00:01:47,671
You think a speechwriter's going to fix it?
Do you think that's the only problem?

10
00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:51,342
If I did, would I be calling you?

11
00:01:51,454 --> 00:01:58,215
I'm sorry I missed your presidential
campaign. I just thought it was nuts.

12
00:01:58,278 --> 00:02:00,862
It looks like the voters agreed with you.

13
00:02:01,021 --> 00:02:06,710
Maybe it was crazy, anyway,
I'm supposed to be running again...

14
00:02:06,854 --> 00:02:11,535
<i>for the re-election to the Senate,
and people aren't giving any more.</i>

15
00:02:11,687 --> 00:02:14,398
Now, they are giving, but maybe
I just don't want the money.

16
00:02:15,942 --> 00:02:20,008
I don't have anything to say.
I feel tapped out.

17
00:02:20,223 --> 00:02:24,654
Get away from there, it's a snake pit.
It's a hall of mirrors for narcissists.

18
00:02:24,774 --> 00:02:26,518
Get a long way away.

19
00:02:26,663 --> 00:02:29,559
Oh, I wish, but it's impossible right now.

20
00:02:29,678 --> 00:02:32,709
No, come on. It's always like that.
That's always part of the problem.

21
00:02:32,878 --> 00:02:35,601
Are you offering me a place?

22
00:02:35,745 --> 00:02:38,256
Yeah, sure. You could come
over here. Come on over.

23
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,850
It may not be the White House but, you
know, at least here you're wanted.

24
00:02:48,081 --> 00:02:49,986
<i>I'm so glad I came here.</i>

25
00:02:50,297 --> 00:02:53,336
<i>I should not invited him.</i>

26
00:02:58,514 --> 00:03:00,562
Incredible!

27
00:03:01,250 --> 00:03:04,683
Look, there it is again.

28
00:03:06,763 --> 00:03:13,492
The Middle Ages got left behind on
this rock. Time just moved on.

29
00:03:14,771 --> 00:03:16,764
<i>There he goes again.
That's him all right.</i>

30
00:03:16,996 --> 00:03:21,192
<i>Always enthused and always ready,
with the right words for all occasions.</i>

31
00:03:21,419 --> 00:03:24,730
<i>As if everyone was
still waiting for his opinion.</i>

32
00:03:24,794 --> 00:03:27,769
<i>As if life itself was one
giant press conference.</i>

33
00:03:31,811 --> 00:03:36,748
<i>Maybe that's all there is,
this public persona.</i>

34
00:03:36,861 --> 00:03:40,917
<i>Maybe I've been fooling myself
these last 20 years...</i>

35
00:03:41,069 --> 00:03:44,652
<i>always looking for the real guy
behind the facade.</i>

36
00:03:44,846 --> 00:03:49,598
<i>Maybe the facade is the real guy.</i>

37
00:03:50,006 --> 00:03:52,710
This is amazing!

38
00:03:52,854 --> 00:03:56,894
<i>Sure it is.
Everything's always amazing to this guy.</i>

39
00:03:57,151 --> 00:03:59,190
<i>Why am I bitching all the time?</i>

40
00:03:59,310 --> 00:04:01,841
<i>Maybe it's a premonition that
this trip's going to be a disaster.</i>

41
00:04:01,962 --> 00:04:04,146
<i>I can't say that I need Jack's company.
This time of my life I'm residing quite...</i>

42
00:04:04,369 --> 00:04:08,734
<i>contentedly in my own midlife crises,
thank you very much.</i>

43
00:04:12,055 --> 00:04:15,706
This is as far away from Washington
as I could possibly get.

44
00:04:17,905 --> 00:04:20,255
Thank you.

45
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,239
<i>There he goes.</i>

46
00:04:23,422 --> 00:04:25,952
<i>That's why he irritates me,
and that's why I love him, too.</i>

47
00:04:26,087 --> 00:04:29,798
<i>Behind the innocence there may be a
calculating politician...</i>

48
00:04:30,039 --> 00:04:32,409
<i>but behind the politician
there's an innocent.</i>

49
00:04:32,608 --> 00:04:36,673
<i>He's still american enough.
He doesn't lie well at all, he means it.</i>

50
00:04:36,881 --> 00:04:39,817
You want to stop the car and get out?
Take a look around?

51
00:04:53,594 --> 00:04:57,209
There it is.
Mont-Saint-Michel.

52
00:04:57,426 --> 00:04:59,298
What do you think?

53
00:04:59,417 --> 00:05:01,119
Beautiful.

54
00:05:02,958 --> 00:05:06,190
You want to do something different?
You want to walk over there?

55
00:05:07,207 --> 00:05:09,351
Walk across that swamp?

56
00:05:09,574 --> 00:05:13,479
Yeah, just like our ancestors did
centuries and centuries ago.

57
00:05:14,278 --> 00:05:17,207
You're the one who wanted to do all
the walking. Come on, let's go.

58
00:05:20,463 --> 00:05:23,153
Maybe you ancestors used to do this...

59
00:05:25,631 --> 00:05:28,994
but unless my mother
lied to me, I don't...

60
00:07:37,426 --> 00:07:38,627
Thank you.

61
00:07:48,425 --> 00:07:52,817
- So, we're gonna do something today?
- Thought I'd finish my book.

62
00:07:54,001 --> 00:07:57,257
You always have a book to read.
I'm bored.

63
00:07:57,644 --> 00:07:59,060
Where's Roman?

64
00:07:59,188 --> 00:08:02,820
I don't care what Roman's doing.
I wanted to do something with you.

65
00:08:05,972 --> 00:08:09,708
I should not come. I should've
just done something with dad.

66
00:08:10,268 --> 00:08:12,004
Come on, Kit.

67
00:08:12,117 --> 00:08:15,339
You just stay cooped up in this medieval
island, just reading your books.

68
00:08:15,508 --> 00:08:18,477
You're not even aware of
what's going on around you.

69
00:08:18,566 --> 00:08:21,494
You could be anywhere, it wouldn't
even make a difference.

70
00:08:21,565 --> 00:08:23,871
You should go out more.
Meet some people.

71
00:08:24,118 --> 00:08:25,637
I will.

72
00:08:25,836 --> 00:08:28,251
I'm going.

73
00:08:29,256 --> 00:08:31,473
Bye.

74
00:08:44,849 --> 00:08:46,568
Are you moving to France permanently?

75
00:08:46,737 --> 00:08:47,681
What?

76
00:08:47,864 --> 00:08:50,441
I thought you couldn't live
anywhere but in New York.

77
00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:58,703
What about the theater?
Did you give that up for good?

78
00:08:58,790 --> 00:09:01,142
Oh, it may have given me up for good.

79
00:09:02,141 --> 00:09:07,010
I don't think I'm enough involved in
real estate to live in Manhattan...

80
00:09:07,169 --> 00:09:09,146
or any other business.
Some other hustle.

81
00:09:10,026 --> 00:09:13,344
I lived in New York when I was young inside.
My friends and I were more interested...

82
00:09:13,505 --> 00:09:15,393
in our work
than our investments.

83
00:09:15,464 --> 00:09:17,401
We weren't invidious.
We were nurturing.

84
00:09:18,777 --> 00:09:22,664
And then, you know.
Alimony, the IRS...

85
00:09:23,393 --> 00:09:26,753
being denied the right to parent
my own child custody--

86
00:09:27,618 --> 00:09:30,809
They brought reality in,
and hey, who needs it?

87
00:09:31,297 --> 00:09:35,585
When Nixon got on that chopper in 1972
I think the fight went out of all of us.

88
00:09:36,475 --> 00:09:39,618
The big business took
over and set the agenda.

89
00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:44,334
Boy, when you buy into big business,
when you buy into that, man...

90
00:09:45,423 --> 00:09:47,950
you got to emancipate
yourself from your morals...

91
00:09:48,167 --> 00:09:50,687
or you live a life of squeamishness.

92
00:09:50,839 --> 00:09:53,641
Is this our same old argument?
I lost my morals, did I?

93
00:09:53,808 --> 00:09:58,099
Automatically, by going to work
and staying inside the system?

94
00:09:59,076 --> 00:10:01,236
You're taking me a little personally.
I was talking about myself.

95
00:10:01,291 --> 00:10:03,557
I was saying that I got a little
squeamish, you know?

96
00:10:04,285 --> 00:10:08,469
I know people that work a lot crasser
jobs than you, and they're happy.

97
00:10:08,548 --> 00:10:11,021
They're happy, they're healthy,
they're not depressed.

98
00:10:11,084 --> 00:10:13,894
They enjoy the material blessings.
Me? I couldn't handle it.

99
00:10:13,972 --> 00:10:15,545
I couldn't stand it.
I just couldn't...

100
00:10:16,469 --> 00:10:21,540
Confucius say "Of the 39 steps of escape
the best one's flight." So I fled.

101
00:10:22,474 --> 00:10:25,067
Here I am in France where
I can pull down my pants.

102
00:10:25,722 --> 00:10:30,386
I'm enough of a retarded romantic to believe
France is still a place to go and think.

103
00:10:31,194 --> 00:10:36,364
So I'll stay, I guess...
or I won't. We'll see.

104
00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:40,347
This place is like a fairy tale.

105
00:10:44,171 --> 00:10:45,852
How did we wind up here?

106
00:10:46,468 --> 00:10:49,884
I'll bet there's some secret
plan of yours behind all this.

107
00:10:50,012 --> 00:10:55,061
I bet I could say the same thing about you.
No, I just thought you'd like to come here.

108
00:10:55,148 --> 00:11:00,604
To discover that precious quality that the
world so desperately lacks.

109
00:11:00,668 --> 00:11:03,189
Ah, yeah. Vision.

110
00:11:05,292 --> 00:11:09,389
Perspective.
Perspective, Jack.

111
00:11:10,698 --> 00:11:15,594
This is where the dead are placed, in the
middle of town among the houses.

112
00:11:15,758 --> 00:11:20,815
Death is a part of life, not separate from it.

113
00:11:21,063 --> 00:11:26,571
There aren't enough graves for all the
generations of Mont-Saint-Michelains.

114
00:11:26,651 --> 00:11:32,563
So every decade or so, the bones are
dug up so new bodies can be buried here.

115
00:11:32,732 --> 00:11:37,178
And since they believed you will need
your bones again on Judgment day...

116
00:11:37,289 --> 00:11:39,614
they placed them nearby
in the charnel house--

117
00:11:39,686 --> 00:11:43,431
- Ucch! That's disgusting.
- I like cemeteries.

118
00:11:43,511 --> 00:11:47,463
And in the back there, in the
church, there is a relic of a saint.

119
00:11:47,983 --> 00:11:49,346
What's a relic?

120
00:11:49,505 --> 00:11:55,911
Oh, maybe a shaving of the saint's
fingernail, or a scrap of the saint's robe.

121
00:11:55,976 --> 00:11:58,544
Tell me Jack, how do you expect
to govern these people?

122
00:11:58,576 --> 00:12:00,311
That's a good question.

123
00:12:01,063 --> 00:12:05,089
There was an italian premier
once, just before Mussolini...

124
00:12:05,177 --> 00:12:07,928
somebody asked him if it
was difficult to govern italians.

125
00:12:08,305 --> 00:12:13,617
He said: "Difficult to govern italians?
No, not difficult. Only useless"

126
00:12:14,923 --> 00:12:17,354
You didn't say that on the 6:00 news.

127
00:12:17,618 --> 00:12:24,082
No, but I thought it night and day.
Maybe that's why I lost.

128
00:12:25,219 --> 00:12:28,906
Anyway, did they really think that their
bones would keep until judgment day?

129
00:12:29,011 --> 00:12:32,339
You got to remember for them
Judgment day was...

130
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,402
right around the corner.
They expected it almost hourly.

131
00:12:34,683 --> 00:12:35,866
Just like us.

132
00:12:36,043 --> 00:12:38,375
I wouldn't say so. Judgment day,
for us is different.

133
00:12:39,327 --> 00:12:44,488
It's an interruption, a violation,
a break in our concept of time--

134
00:12:44,584 --> 00:12:48,515
The bomb, the big one. Judgment day
for them was the ultimate day off.

135
00:12:48,676 --> 00:12:50,061
Not the ultimate off day.

136
00:12:50,525 --> 00:12:56,708
There wasn't mechanical time, time was
season to season, Sabbath to saint day.

137
00:12:56,901 --> 00:13:01,712
And everything led toward Judgment day.
That was the reason everybody was alive.

138
00:13:03,296 --> 00:13:08,252
It was the day of deliverance. Like sunday,
when you get the Times delivered.

139
00:13:08,541 --> 00:13:10,118
Time was sacred.

140
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:13,470
They'd ring a bell in the morning,
they'd ring a bell in the evening...

141
00:13:13,566 --> 00:13:15,950
and those moments would
change a little. But the...

142
00:13:16,886 --> 00:13:19,779
rhythm of their era was
so different from ours...

143
00:13:20,283 --> 00:13:22,226
that I don't think we
can even imagine it.

144
00:13:32,502 --> 00:13:34,759
I guess we're a little early.

145
00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:43,135
No saint stands alone.

146
00:13:43,264 --> 00:13:44,520
What?

147
00:13:46,303 --> 00:13:48,656
No saint stands alone.

148
00:13:51,304 --> 00:13:54,584
Every time I come here, these lines
comes to me, God knows from where.

149
00:13:55,224 --> 00:13:58,744
Sometimes it takes me weeks, even
years to figure out what they mean.

150
00:13:59,215 --> 00:14:02,425
Did you ever read any
of the books I sent you?

151
00:14:02,905 --> 00:14:07,681
No, not since you stopped thinking
about helping me with speeches.

152
00:14:08,642 --> 00:14:11,417
Did you ever read the
speeches I sent you?

153
00:14:11,553 --> 00:14:15,138
I tried. I mean, the old attention span,
isn't what it used to be.

154
00:14:15,369 --> 00:14:17,866
That's true. Mine neither.

155
00:14:19,202 --> 00:14:22,394
I don't have any attention anymore
for anything that's not specific.

156
00:14:23,425 --> 00:14:25,792
Poetry just confuses me.

157
00:14:25,977 --> 00:14:28,632
Yeah, politics--
Politics confuses everybody.

158
00:14:29,328 --> 00:14:31,787
Including its practitioners.

159
00:14:33,138 --> 00:14:35,811
But I know what
"No saint stands alone" means.

160
00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:38,059
Oh, yeah? What?

161
00:14:38,235 --> 00:14:40,435
It's the essence of my profession.

162
00:14:40,651 --> 00:14:45,483
Because between every politician
and his own point of view...

163
00:14:45,644 --> 00:14:50,106
there's always three fat cats, two
pac lobbyists, half dozen of microphones.

164
00:14:51,074 --> 00:14:55,259
"No man is an island entire of itself.
Every man is a piece of the continent...

165
00:14:55,323 --> 00:14:59,552
part of the main, therefore never send
to know for whom the bell tolls...

166
00:14:59,581 --> 00:15:02,093
it tolls to thee."

167
00:15:12,660 --> 00:15:15,083
Can't you just feel the
place watching you?

168
00:15:16,484 --> 00:15:21,604
- It makes you feel pretty small.
- It was supposed to.

169
00:15:21,851 --> 00:15:25,484
The individual in the human body was
supposed to feel small...

170
00:15:25,666 --> 00:15:28,003
dwarfed, denied all independent existence.

171
00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:37,229
We lost some of the sense of being
all one, but we got our freedom.

172
00:15:37,389 --> 00:15:39,476
That's not a bad trade-off.

173
00:15:39,888 --> 00:15:44,561
I don't know. I still don't know if we
haven't lost more than we've gained.

174
00:15:44,793 --> 00:15:47,457
All I ever hear anybody
talk about today is themselves.

175
00:15:47,569 --> 00:15:53,082
I wrote a poem once. It's titled
"The Stones Speak, I am Silent"

176
00:15:53,085 --> 00:15:57,650
At least you're free to think what
you want and do what you can about it.

177
00:15:58,552 --> 00:16:01,585
Think of the guy who had to carry these
stones up the hell to built this place.

178
00:16:01,738 --> 00:16:05,738
He didn't have any say in life,
or try running for office some day.

179
00:16:07,226 --> 00:16:10,370
Someone else sets the agenda,
someone else sets the schedule.

180
00:16:10,538 --> 00:16:13,841
Somebody else decides what you can
say and what you better not say.

181
00:16:14,674 --> 00:16:19,722
Talk about losing yourself. People have
been known to forget their own names.

182
00:16:20,715 --> 00:16:22,441
Maybe you're too smart to be president.

183
00:16:22,649 --> 00:16:25,313
A television correspondent
told me that once.

184
00:16:25,423 --> 00:16:26,672
What did you say?

185
00:16:26,770 --> 00:16:29,169
I got a little steamed.

186
00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:33,938
I said american voters want their
leaders to be dumber than they are.

187
00:16:34,041 --> 00:16:39,249
They figure they'll do less harm that way.
That is an expensive form of cynicism.

188
00:16:40,138 --> 00:16:42,107
- You said that on TV?
- Yup.

189
00:16:43,162 --> 00:16:45,482
Maybe you're not so smart after all.

190
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:55,197
We go through here.

191
00:16:58,278 --> 00:16:59,525
What's up here?

192
00:16:59,765 --> 00:17:01,406
After you.

193
00:17:17,372 --> 00:17:19,683
Look at this.
Look at this!

194
00:17:19,851 --> 00:17:22,348
This thing has been functioning
for hundreds of years--

195
00:17:22,532 --> 00:17:24,452
since before the
beginning of modern times.

196
00:17:24,596 --> 00:17:27,797
But this is different from the kind
of time you were talking about before.

197
00:17:27,973 --> 00:17:30,917
Sunrise to Sunset,
Sabbath to Sabbath, isn't it?

198
00:17:31,062 --> 00:17:34,893
This is... mechanical time.

199
00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:36,717
You bet, you bet it is.

200
00:17:36,861 --> 00:17:39,989
I sometimes think that this clock,
this machine is what...

201
00:17:40,125 --> 00:17:43,102
...constitutes humanity's first real
break from the world of nature.

202
00:17:44,127 --> 00:17:46,999
Wouldn't you say so?
Hello?

203
00:17:47,143 --> 00:17:51,190
The clock did much more than that.
It became the model of the cosmos.

204
00:17:51,254 --> 00:17:54,007
And then they mistook the
model for the real thing.

205
00:17:54,391 --> 00:17:57,851
People got the idea that
nature was just a giant clock.

206
00:17:57,996 --> 00:18:00,751
Not a living organism, but a machine.

207
00:18:01,606 --> 00:18:05,523
That's exactly what I've been trying to
tell this lunkhead, exactly, word for word.

208
00:18:05,628 --> 00:18:08,106
- What?
- Maybe you recognize him. Jack Edwards.

209
00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:09,845
And you are...?

210
00:18:10,110 --> 00:18:15,200
Sonia Hoffman.
I think I've heard your name somewhere.

211
00:18:15,352 --> 00:18:17,601
Maybe in a couple of
hundred news broadcasts.

212
00:18:17,761 --> 00:18:20,352
He was a candidate for the U.S.
presidency in the primaries.

213
00:18:20,529 --> 00:18:24,648
I vaguely remember.
See? I'm not a voter.

214
00:18:24,823 --> 00:18:27,209
Most americans don't vote either.

215
00:18:29,372 --> 00:18:30,901
I do know who you are.

216
00:18:31,045 --> 00:18:32,214
Me? You know who I am?
I doubt it...

217
00:18:33,189 --> 00:18:34,791
You're Thomas Harriman, the poet.

218
00:18:36,543 --> 00:18:39,807
Yes I am. But wait a minute,
let me get this straight.

219
00:18:39,936 --> 00:18:43,682
You recognize me, a poet whose latest
work sold only 12,000 copies but you...

220
00:18:43,841 --> 00:18:49,689
do not recognize this gentleman, who
was a presidential candidate in America?

221
00:18:49,802 --> 00:18:52,994
My god, woman. What's happened to
your values? What do you do?

222
00:18:53,121 --> 00:18:54,889
I'm a scientist.

223
00:18:55,026 --> 00:18:57,794
And we do occasionally read poetry.

224
00:18:57,914 --> 00:19:00,467
As a matter of fact, I'm doing
a lot of it these days.

225
00:19:00,570 --> 00:19:02,259
I'm on a sort of sabbatical.

226
00:19:03,042 --> 00:19:07,259
I'm an ex-physicist,
an ex-american resident...

227
00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:09,083
- an ex-voter--
- Ex-wife?

228
00:19:10,802 --> 00:19:15,722
This is very upsetting. Why don't intelligent
people like yourself bother to vote?

229
00:19:16,787 --> 00:19:19,747
Forgive me. You politicians make it so hard.

230
00:19:20,657 --> 00:19:24,178
The ideas expressed by
most of you, right or left...

231
00:19:24,281 --> 00:19:27,474
seem to me as antique and
mechanical as that old clock.

232
00:19:27,602 --> 00:19:29,010
What's that supposed to mean?

233
00:19:30,258 --> 00:19:34,858
If I was to explain that, I'd have to
go all the way back to Descartes...

234
00:19:35,003 --> 00:19:37,234
if you remember him.

235
00:19:37,434 --> 00:19:40,050
- Yeah
- "To be or not to be"

236
00:19:40,234 --> 00:19:45,030
- "I Think, therefore, I am."
- Yeah, well. We both went to college.

237
00:19:45,208 --> 00:19:51,020
Descartes was the primary architect of
the view that sees the world as a clock.

238
00:19:51,341 --> 00:19:55,328
A mechanistic view that still
dominates most of the world today...

239
00:19:55,487 --> 00:19:58,800
and it seems to me
specially you politicians.

240
00:19:59,624 --> 00:20:04,424
Mechanistic?
Is that a real word?

241
00:20:04,592 --> 00:20:10,161
Mechanistic, mechanical, mechanics.
Yeah, it's a good word.

242
00:20:10,312 --> 00:20:14,337
Mechanistic.
As if Nature functioned like a clock.

243
00:20:14,497 --> 00:20:19,376
You take it a part, reduce it to a number of
small, simple pieces, easy to understand...

244
00:20:19,528 --> 00:20:23,313
analyze them, put them all back together
and then you understand the whole.

245
00:20:23,498 --> 00:20:26,770
Isn't that what's known as scientific
thinking, Miss Hoffman?

246
00:20:27,778 --> 00:20:30,996
What you call the mechanistic view isn't
that what the scientific method's all about?

247
00:20:31,139 --> 00:20:33,139
Is it?

248
00:20:33,347 --> 00:20:38,316
I don't think so. But I'd like to kind
to hear from the physicist, Jack.

249
00:20:38,493 --> 00:20:40,586
All right, I'm sorry.
Please continue.

250
00:20:41,323 --> 00:20:44,722
Well, you're right in a way, Mr...

251
00:20:44,898 --> 00:20:46,434
Jack, call me Jack.

252
00:20:46,595 --> 00:20:49,322
O.K., Jack.
You're right in a sense.

253
00:20:49,468 --> 00:20:52,699
But it wasn't always so,
not before Descartes.

254
00:20:53,542 --> 00:20:55,470
When he introduced such thinking...

255
00:20:55,654 --> 00:20:59,814
it amounted to a revolutionary
break with the church.

256
00:20:59,950 --> 00:21:03,563
He said "I don't need the Pope to
tell me how the world functions...

257
00:21:03,715 --> 00:21:07,667
I can find that out for myself,
because to me the world is just a machine."

258
00:21:08,573 --> 00:21:12,154
And then he became fascinated
with clockworks...

259
00:21:12,274 --> 00:21:14,513
and made the clock into
his central metaphor.

260
00:21:16,701 --> 00:21:22,101
He said "I consider the human body
as nothing but a machine...

261
00:21:22,733 --> 00:21:29,892
A healthy man is like a well-made clock.
A sick man is like an ill-made clock."

262
00:21:30,019 --> 00:21:34,166
The metaphor seems a little clumsy now.
But it worked, didn't it?

263
00:21:35,168 --> 00:21:39,149
Yes, so successfully, that
scientists came to believe...

264
00:21:39,245 --> 00:21:44,885
that all living things, plants
animals, us, are nothig but machines.

265
00:21:45,013 --> 00:21:49,616
And that's the fallacy. It carried
over into everything, arts, politics...

266
00:21:51,028 --> 00:21:53,237
I dont know, it seems to me
that most people don't...

267
00:21:53,388 --> 00:21:55,380
even remember
who Descartes was.

268
00:21:56,285 --> 00:21:59,803
- I'm sorry, I guess I just don't follow you.
- But he'd like to.

269
00:22:01,610 --> 00:22:05,586
If you could break it down into 30-second
media bites, that's what he's used to.

270
00:22:06,163 --> 00:22:07,579
Very funny.

271
00:22:07,875 --> 00:22:13,854
What is it that I don't recognize?
What's so bad about Descartes?

272
00:22:14,005 --> 00:22:18,997
But there's nothing bad about Descartes.
In fact, I think Descartes is wonderful.

273
00:22:19,126 --> 00:22:24,447
He was a godsend to the 17th century.
But times have changed since then.

274
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:27,704
We need a new way
of understanding life.

275
00:22:29,057 --> 00:22:36,328
That pendulum for example, has long since
been replaced by a tiny quartz crystal.

276
00:22:36,815 --> 00:22:40,305
And these magnificent
hand-forged wheels...

277
00:22:40,465 --> 00:22:44,602
turned into microchip
the size of my thumbnail.

278
00:22:45,384 --> 00:22:50,105
That's how far modern science has
left mechanistic thinking behind.

279
00:22:52,722 --> 00:22:58,802
But you politicians seem to have
that clockwork still ticking in your head.

280
00:23:10,288 --> 00:23:12,507
Keep on going, Sonia. Don't stop.

281
00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:16,022
Who knows? You may have that vital
piece of information we pols...

282
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,120
venal and stupid as we are have
been missing out on all along.

283
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,282
There you go, thinking
in terms of pieces.

284
00:23:22,347 --> 00:23:25,120
Pieces are all we get of the
picture, only fragments.

285
00:23:25,199 --> 00:23:27,616
Come on, give some examples.

286
00:23:30,117 --> 00:23:34,185
Well, let's take the population
problem for example.

287
00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:40,546
You can't solve it by looking at different
forms of birth control in isolation.

288
00:23:40,793 --> 00:23:45,351
Research has proven that the
most effective form of birth control...

289
00:23:45,485 --> 00:23:48,663
is not a pill, it's economic
and social gains...

290
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,674
which will reduce the
desire for large families.

291
00:23:51,833 --> 00:23:52,856
That's true.

292
00:23:53,167 --> 00:24:00,479
Did you know that in our world
every day 40,000 children die...

293
00:24:00,647 --> 00:24:04,015
from malnutrition and
preventable diseases?

294
00:24:05,921 --> 00:24:07,448
That's every other second.

295
00:24:07,697 --> 00:24:09,193
That's now...

296
00:24:10,384 --> 00:24:12,834
and now... and now...

297
00:24:14,488 --> 00:24:19,794
But the short lives of these children
cannot be seen in isolation...

298
00:24:19,968 --> 00:24:24,169
they're part of the whole system,
involving the economics...

299
00:24:24,314 --> 00:24:26,840
involving the environment,
and more specifically...

300
00:24:26,992 --> 00:24:30,642
- involving high levels of third-world debt.
- How's that?

301
00:24:30,819 --> 00:24:35,018
The burden of frenzied borrowing is not
falling on those with foreign banks...

302
00:24:35,137 --> 00:24:38,106
...accounts, nor on those
who created the imbalance.

303
00:24:38,243 --> 00:24:40,498
The burden's falling on
the already deprived.

304
00:24:41,603 --> 00:24:44,801
Three years ago, president
Nyerere asked the question:

305
00:24:44,947 --> 00:24:48,467
"Must we starve our
children to pay our debts?"

306
00:24:49,651 --> 00:24:51,804
That question has been
answered in practice...

307
00:24:51,922 --> 00:24:53,483
...and the answer has been YES...

308
00:24:53,588 --> 00:24:57,219
...because since he asked, hundreds
and thousands of little children...

309
00:24:57,333 --> 00:25:01,507
...in the third world have given their
lives to pay their country's debts.

310
00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:07,116
And millions more are still paying interest
with their malnourished minds and bodies.

311
00:25:12,052 --> 00:25:14,116
Take Brazil.

312
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:18,629
Do you know that they are destroying
their Amazon rain forests...

313
00:25:18,741 --> 00:25:21,341
...at the rate of one football
field a second?

314
00:25:21,493 --> 00:25:24,013
Now, now, now.

315
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:30,198
Why? They're trying to pay their national
debt with cattle and land speculation.

316
00:25:30,309 --> 00:25:32,691
They don't even have
time to sell the timber...

317
00:25:32,787 --> 00:25:34,779
...so they're setting
fire to the woods.

318
00:25:34,876 --> 00:25:39,822
And our barren forests are one of the
main causes of the global warming...

319
00:25:39,918 --> 00:25:41,934
...the green house effect.

320
00:25:42,142 --> 00:25:45,607
And in the meantime, we are pouring
our money into the arms race.

321
00:25:45,686 --> 00:25:50,599
You cannot look at one single of our
global problems in isolation...

322
00:25:50,663 --> 00:25:52,991
...trying to understand it and solve it.

323
00:25:53,379 --> 00:25:58,852
You can fix a fragment of a piece,
but it will deteriorate a second later...

324
00:25:58,931 --> 00:26:01,541
because what it was
connected to has been ignored.

325
00:26:02,204 --> 00:26:06,448
We have to change everything
together at the same time.

326
00:26:06,575 --> 00:26:13,306
- The ideals, the institutions, the values--
- All of this sounds kind of familiar.

327
00:26:13,403 --> 00:26:16,827
Do you two know each other?
Is this a setup?

328
00:26:17,363 --> 00:26:20,041
Well, all right.
What do I think about this?

329
00:26:20,263 --> 00:26:23,887
The problems are complex but you're
looking at the dark side, because us...

330
00:26:23,958 --> 00:26:28,590
...are capacity to response, isn't it?
Communications, databanks, technology--

331
00:26:28,662 --> 00:26:31,735
We already have the tools to deal
with a lot of these problems...

332
00:26:31,823 --> 00:26:36,385
- ...even if they are more complex.
- Candide himself, the eternal optimist.

333
00:26:36,562 --> 00:26:39,763
But don't you see?
There are all these new technologies...

334
00:26:39,898 --> 00:26:42,795
...they're causing more
problems that they solve.

335
00:26:42,962 --> 00:26:47,112
In medicine for example, there's been
an overwhelming increase in technology...

336
00:26:47,208 --> 00:26:50,075
...but the costs have spiraled concurrently.

337
00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:54,816
It's become medicine for the rich and public
health hasn't improved significantly...

338
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,997
...although public health would
improve dramatically if we...

339
00:26:58,078 --> 00:27:00,558
...just changed our eating
habits, for example.

340
00:27:00,950 --> 00:27:04,919
But instead the experts are occupied
with making artificial hearts.

341
00:27:05,016 --> 00:27:10,986
If our agribusiness had fed us better
instead of chopping down the rain forests...

342
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,401
...in order to make cattle ranches in order
to produce more and more red meat...

343
00:27:15,465 --> 00:27:18,081
...which is one of the diary
causes of heart attacks...

344
00:27:18,177 --> 00:27:22,110
...then maybe we would not to spend so
much of our money on artificial hearts...

345
00:27:22,183 --> 00:27:26,450
...and so on, and so on. This is all
examples of interconnectedness.

346
00:27:26,539 --> 00:27:31,133
But, Sonia... All right
supposing that you're right...

347
00:27:31,197 --> 00:27:34,229
...and everything's connected
to everything else as you say...

348
00:27:34,285 --> 00:27:36,648
...still you've got to start
somewhere, don't you?

349
00:27:36,711 --> 00:27:39,865
That's the real political question here.
Where do you start?

350
00:27:40,860 --> 00:27:43,532
By changing the way
we're seeing the world.

351
00:27:43,596 --> 00:27:48,038
You're still searching for the
right piece to fix first.

352
00:27:48,117 --> 00:27:54,999
You don't see that all the problems
simply are fragments of one single crisis.

353
00:27:55,072 --> 00:27:58,584
- A crisis of perception.
- Oh, good.

354
00:27:58,656 --> 00:28:02,048
The world's coming to an end and you
say it's a crisis of perception.

355
00:28:02,105 --> 00:28:04,136
I'm sorry, that's a
little abstract for me.

356
00:28:04,193 --> 00:28:08,474
And all this stuff about modern
medicine, all your criticisms...

357
00:28:08,562 --> 00:28:12,570
I may be a doctor's son,
but you have to admit that...

358
00:28:12,729 --> 00:28:15,345
...this mechanistic medicine
has been pretty successful.

359
00:28:16,057 --> 00:28:18,641
Well... up to a point.

360
00:28:18,721 --> 00:28:22,994
But simply by blocking the
mechanisms of a disease...

361
00:28:23,082 --> 00:28:24,771
...doesn't mean healing it.

362
00:28:24,850 --> 00:28:29,041
I mean, it's like in politics, it's just
shifting the problem to another sphere.

363
00:28:29,130 --> 00:28:33,587
Are you going to leave me stranded
out here in this argument by myself?

364
00:28:33,683 --> 00:28:37,379
I'm going to leave you stranded.

365
00:28:38,547 --> 00:28:44,995
O.K... A person goes to a
doctor today with recurring...

366
00:28:45,091 --> 00:28:48,462
...attacks of gallstones and the
doctor takes the gallbladder out.

367
00:28:48,570 --> 00:28:50,370
And low and behold
the pain goes away.

368
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:54,491
You could say the doctor's working from
a poor perceptual model, that he just...

369
00:28:54,579 --> 00:28:58,866
...concentrated on a part of the clock
that wasn't working and removed it.

370
00:28:58,971 --> 00:29:01,618
But the fact is the patient
is out of his pain.

371
00:29:01,689 --> 00:29:03,641
He's feeling better and
the clock is ticking again.

372
00:29:03,730 --> 00:29:05,834
His perceptual model worked.

373
00:29:05,938 --> 00:29:09,816
But is everything that works
good for the system?

374
00:29:09,969 --> 00:29:13,578
That's disingenuous and not
useful when applied to politics...

375
00:29:13,648 --> 00:29:16,763
...which is, after all, a system
that is based on people.

376
00:29:16,858 --> 00:29:20,314
It's the art of bringing people to agree
on a certain course of action.

377
00:29:20,395 --> 00:29:24,003
If that course of action succeeds,
the people are satisfied...

378
00:29:24,075 --> 00:29:25,714
...if not, they're not.

379
00:29:25,778 --> 00:29:28,019
It's as simple as that.
If it works, it's good.

380
00:29:28,082 --> 00:29:31,819
Isn't that what you said why
politics doesn't work...

381
00:29:31,898 --> 00:29:35,930
...that politics needed to become
the art of the impossible?

382
00:29:37,074 --> 00:29:38,699
Whose side are you on?

383
00:29:39,635 --> 00:29:42,763
Hers, obviously.
She's intelligent, gracious...

384
00:29:42,828 --> 00:29:44,964
...and she's more attractive.

385
00:29:45,468 --> 00:29:51,147
Listen, Jack. I'd like to get
back to the systems.

386
00:29:51,228 --> 00:29:53,783
-You know, you called me dishonest.
-Oh, no, no, no...

387
00:29:53,831 --> 00:29:56,023
Let's talk about the gallbladder again.

388
00:29:56,081 --> 00:29:59,424
Let's say the gallbladder's out
and the pain is gone...

389
00:29:59,487 --> 00:30:02,707
...but what about the stress that
might have caused the illness?

390
00:30:02,755 --> 00:30:07,117
If that stress persists he's probably
going to get sick again.

391
00:30:07,205 --> 00:30:10,125
Or let's say he had
changed his nutrition...

392
00:30:10,215 --> 00:30:13,061
...much earlier, and
done some exercise.

393
00:30:13,134 --> 00:30:15,775
He may never have developed
the gallstones in the first place.

394
00:30:15,845 --> 00:30:18,751
A little health education
might have been...

395
00:30:18,827 --> 00:30:21,887
...much cheaper that the operation,
a lot less painful, too.

396
00:30:21,967 --> 00:30:25,575
But our system doesn't
encourage prevention...

397
00:30:25,671 --> 00:30:27,631
...it encourages intervention.

398
00:30:27,734 --> 00:30:30,936
O.K. You're not disingenuous, but to
blame all this on french philosopher...

399
00:30:31,055 --> 00:30:33,880
...who's been dead 300 years, isn't
that a little out of proportion...

400
00:30:33,976 --> 00:30:36,808
...maybe even all a little eccentric?

401
00:30:36,911 --> 00:30:40,374
No. Not if I'm right.

402
00:30:40,446 --> 00:30:43,824
See, my point isn't to
condemn Descartes' thinking.

403
00:30:43,928 --> 00:30:46,855
It's simply to recognize its limitations.

404
00:30:47,703 --> 00:30:50,755
It might have been extremely
useful to perceive the world...

405
00:30:50,827 --> 00:30:54,271
...as a machine for 300 years
but that perception today...

406
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:57,935
...is not only inaccurate,
it's actually harmful.

407
00:30:59,559 --> 00:31:02,536
We need a new vision of the world.

408
00:31:03,136 --> 00:31:04,961
What's that quotation?

409
00:31:05,041 --> 00:31:10,729
"It's foolish for a society to try to
cling to its old ideas in new times...

410
00:31:10,801 --> 00:31:14,378
...just as it's foolish for a grown
man to try to squeeze...

411
00:31:14,457 --> 00:31:18,233
...into the coat that fit him in his youth."
Something like that...

412
00:31:18,329 --> 00:31:19,709
Thomas Jefferson.

413
00:31:21,086 --> 00:31:22,941
Maybe you're not crazy.

414
00:31:28,606 --> 00:31:32,857
I don't know, Sonia. This new
vision of the world might just be...

415
00:31:32,934 --> 00:31:37,904
...some sort of millennium madness
as we approach the year 2000.

416
00:31:37,951 --> 00:31:39,888
Oh, everybody's aware now.

417
00:31:39,950 --> 00:31:42,631
We can make ourselves extinct
at the press of a button.

418
00:31:43,374 --> 00:31:46,424
We're soiling every square
foot of land, sea and air.

419
00:31:46,464 --> 00:31:49,551
That water looks clean
but it's not, is it?

420
00:31:50,343 --> 00:31:51,350
Nothing is.

421
00:31:52,095 --> 00:31:55,887
The English Channel is one of the most
polluted bodies of water in the world...

422
00:31:55,983 --> 00:31:58,479
...and the oysters around here are famous.

423
00:31:58,704 --> 00:32:01,312
Soon they'll be unsafe to eat.

424
00:32:01,383 --> 00:32:05,064
Not only that. This water is radioactive...

425
00:32:05,088 --> 00:32:08,648
...contaminated by a nuclear
plant a few miles from here.

426
00:32:08,711 --> 00:32:10,678
Yeah, I read about that too.

427
00:32:10,751 --> 00:32:14,327
Politicians can read.
We know all about these things.

428
00:32:14,424 --> 00:32:16,488
Some of us think about
them every day. I do.

429
00:32:16,584 --> 00:32:19,410
But we have to deal with a
different set of constraints...

430
00:32:19,491 --> 00:32:23,107
...different kinds of interdependence
that those you discuss.

431
00:32:23,179 --> 00:32:26,546
Let's say it turns out to be true,
that what you say is true.

432
00:32:27,897 --> 00:32:30,409
Cattle are brutally treated,
loaded with chemicals...

433
00:32:30,492 --> 00:32:32,611
...too much red meat is bad for you...

434
00:32:32,674 --> 00:32:34,579
...and the landscape's
being wrecked by overgrazing.

435
00:32:35,258 --> 00:32:37,187
Let's say all that's turn to be true.

436
00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:40,915
So for health and a hundred
other reasons, I help enact a tax...

437
00:32:40,986 --> 00:32:45,148
...on the consumption of red meat,
the way we tax tobacco...

438
00:32:45,228 --> 00:32:47,516
...to making people think twice
about that kind of consumption.

439
00:32:48,434 --> 00:32:50,139
What a wonderful idea!

440
00:32:50,219 --> 00:32:53,733
We could do cancer and heart
research for the revenue.

441
00:32:53,837 --> 00:32:56,534
And I have 50 lobbyists
pounding on my door...

442
00:32:56,638 --> 00:32:59,038
...while a hundred different
meat producers political action...

443
00:32:59,109 --> 00:33:02,158
...committees poured money
into my opponent's campaign...

444
00:33:02,231 --> 00:33:05,638
...and my switchboard was lit up
all day with calls from senators...

445
00:33:05,718 --> 00:33:08,406
...and representatives and governors
of all the meat-producing states.

446
00:33:09,318 --> 00:33:12,711
But O.K., Sonia, just for you,
let's say I take all that on.

447
00:33:13,407 --> 00:33:16,815
As Sam Rayburn said "Every once
in a while a man ought to do...

448
00:33:16,895 --> 00:33:18,744
...something just because it's right."

449
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:22,479
But if on top of that, I come out
against a few weapons programs...

450
00:33:22,551 --> 00:33:26,039
...and try to do something about acid
rain and sponsor a bill supporting...

451
00:33:26,127 --> 00:33:30,231
...increased funding for solar energy,
you know what?

452
00:33:31,055 --> 00:33:34,088
By the next election anybody
who would run against me...

453
00:33:34,176 --> 00:33:37,506
...and I mean anybody, would have the
combined funds of all those people...

454
00:33:37,578 --> 00:33:40,036
...to defeat me, and he would too.

455
00:33:40,155 --> 00:33:43,347
Because when you're that
far ahead of public opinion...

456
00:33:43,429 --> 00:33:45,402
...that's the way they let you know.

457
00:33:45,729 --> 00:33:50,074
I do what everybody else does, from the
lowliest congressman to the president...

458
00:33:51,370 --> 00:33:56,291
...I pick a few crucial issues that I
think are crucial, a part of your whole...

459
00:33:56,402 --> 00:34:00,044
...and I persist until I get
somewhere if I'm lucky.

460
00:34:02,164 --> 00:34:04,275
For the rest, I mark time, I wait.

461
00:34:04,371 --> 00:34:08,403
I go along, I... I trade off.

462
00:34:10,468 --> 00:34:14,451
This is why I don't vote.
It's what we've been talking about.

463
00:34:14,562 --> 00:34:18,380
You get people to eat less red meat,
and then you do something like...

464
00:34:18,467 --> 00:34:22,460
...paying off the farmers, buying up
surplus butter and subsidizing its price.

465
00:34:22,541 --> 00:34:25,926
If we don't get a heart attack
one way, you'll find another way.

466
00:34:26,612 --> 00:34:30,010
Well, I agree with you.
We wouldn't contradict ourselves...

467
00:34:30,418 --> 00:34:33,011
...so much if we didn't
do things piecemeal.

468
00:34:33,105 --> 00:34:37,619
But you know, there's something a
little scary, maybe something...

469
00:34:37,674 --> 00:34:41,523
...even a little cruel about
your theoretical exigency.

470
00:34:41,579 --> 00:34:46,322
I mean, are you going to be the one who
tells everyone what's good for them?

471
00:34:46,404 --> 00:34:48,914
Are you gonna tell the farmer
something's wrong with the goals his...

472
00:34:49,002 --> 00:34:52,579
...family has pursued for generations
then just shut them down?

473
00:34:52,658 --> 00:34:56,194
Maybe we're beaten up all
day by private interests...

474
00:34:56,267 --> 00:34:59,844
...but at least our government
now stays close to what people...

475
00:34:59,923 --> 00:35:02,683
...perceive to be their needs.

476
00:35:02,755 --> 00:35:07,179
Look, the world changes faster
than people's perception of it.

477
00:35:07,292 --> 00:35:10,467
Wouldn't be challenge for a
great political leader to bridge...

478
00:35:10,580 --> 00:35:16,027
...the gap, to inform, to allow
us to feel responsibility?

479
00:35:16,771 --> 00:35:19,547
Anyway, the people don't
trust you politicians anymore.

480
00:35:19,627 --> 00:35:23,708
At your last election only 50%
of them even bothered to vote.

481
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:27,339
Getting them back would really
require a politics of the impossible.

482
00:35:27,955 --> 00:35:30,998
What a great campaign slogan.
Where were you when I needed you?

483
00:35:31,486 --> 00:35:32,709
I'd vote for it.

484
00:35:33,339 --> 00:35:35,140
Oh, good. I'd get the poet vote.

485
00:35:35,244 --> 00:35:39,140
Politics of the impossible.
You might get my vote too.

486
00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:43,356
Oh, great! Add to that the
support of all well-informed...

487
00:35:43,444 --> 00:35:46,377
...but nonparticipating-women
living on medieval islands.

488
00:35:46,456 --> 00:35:48,608
That's no victory.

489
00:36:12,487 --> 00:36:14,478
Why does that make me angry?

490
00:36:14,558 --> 00:36:17,838
Probably because they don't
want have anything to do with us.

491
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:19,502
They don't believe in us.

492
00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:23,587
There isn't any reason they should,
except their own eventual aging.

493
00:36:23,708 --> 00:36:25,702
They don't even notice where they are.

494
00:36:27,391 --> 00:36:31,879
They think this is the movies, but
this room is absolutely contemporary.

495
00:36:32,831 --> 00:36:36,727
Everybody's got a torture chamber now.
They don't even notice them.

496
00:36:37,903 --> 00:36:41,879
Are you going to say this is part
of your crisis of perception, too?

497
00:36:48,317 --> 00:36:53,641
Maybe we're all led a little towards
death, like wolves to the weak.

498
00:36:54,297 --> 00:36:57,648
Or maybe people are just shits, hmm?

499
00:36:58,774 --> 00:37:01,631
You'd like blame this on Descartes.
I'd like blame it on anybody.

500
00:37:01,632 --> 00:37:03,632
But it's such a part of human history, I...

501
00:37:03,633 --> 00:37:09,489
Well, I don't know about Descartes,
but I know Francis Bacon presided...

502
00:37:09,577 --> 00:37:13,692
...over the witch trials of king James I
at a time when millions of women were...

503
00:37:13,780 --> 00:37:18,084
...tortured or burned for practicing
folk medicine or worshiping...

504
00:37:18,157 --> 00:37:21,934
...pre-Christian goddesses or simply
because they were unusual.

505
00:37:22,007 --> 00:37:24,794
I would probably have ended
up on the stake myself.

506
00:37:25,417 --> 00:37:29,438
I don't believe it was a metaphor
when Francis Bacon wrote...

507
00:37:29,518 --> 00:37:31,977
...that Nature had to be
hounded in her wandering...

508
00:37:32,782 --> 00:37:35,358
...bound into service, made a slave.

509
00:37:35,863 --> 00:37:40,687
He even said that scientists with
their new mechanical devices...

510
00:37:40,775 --> 00:37:44,199
...had to torture Nature's
secrets out of her.

511
00:37:44,775 --> 00:37:49,055
Did you notice how he uses "her"
when describing Mother Nature?

512
00:37:49,142 --> 00:37:52,270
As if Nature was nothing but a witch?

513
00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:04,974
Yes. It's actually fair to
say that this room...

514
00:38:05,062 --> 00:38:09,100
...represents a crisis of perception.

515
00:38:10,260 --> 00:38:14,785
But this room was here for a long
time before Descartes and Bacon.

516
00:38:15,698 --> 00:38:19,170
Violence goes on no matter how mankind
understands the world, doesn't it?

517
00:38:19,242 --> 00:38:23,490
An exploitation... Of course, we'd all
like to think it would be different...

518
00:38:24,778 --> 00:38:26,533
...if we saw things differently.

519
00:38:26,613 --> 00:38:32,116
But hasn't modern science, technology,
business done exactly what...

520
00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:36,392
...Francis Bacon preached:
tortured our planet?

521
00:38:36,482 --> 00:38:41,578
Didn't we just implement the old
patriarchal idea about man dominating all?

522
00:38:43,458 --> 00:38:45,823
I don't know, Sonia. Let me be the
devil's advocate for a minute.

523
00:38:45,903 --> 00:38:48,854
How much have we really tortured
and hounded the planet?

524
00:38:48,951 --> 00:38:51,031
You could say not much...

525
00:38:51,093 --> 00:38:54,083
...compared to what the ice ages
did to the world, for example.

526
00:38:54,172 --> 00:38:57,434
And who sais that nature can't cope?

527
00:38:57,547 --> 00:39:01,402
We're scared to death about
the disappearing ozone layer...

528
00:39:01,460 --> 00:39:05,615
...but we only started studying
ozone levels about 10 years ago.

529
00:39:05,671 --> 00:39:08,966
It could be that these so-called
holes in the atmosphere...

530
00:39:09,945 --> 00:39:12,584
...have been appearing and
the disappearing again...

531
00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:15,136
...since time's beginning.
Couldn't it?

532
00:39:15,208 --> 00:39:19,807
It could be that Nature has a healing
mechanism we don't even know about.

533
00:39:19,864 --> 00:39:22,840
It could be this hysteria
about ultraviolet rays...

534
00:39:22,903 --> 00:39:25,644
...is nothing more than that,
just hysteria.

535
00:39:25,724 --> 00:39:30,719
That's what they said about the
German forests and look at them now.

536
00:39:30,775 --> 00:39:33,952
More than half the trees in the
black forest are dying.

537
00:39:34,008 --> 00:39:37,753
We can't explain it anyway.
We simply cannot take the risk.

538
00:39:38,576 --> 00:39:44,145
Right here around this island the tides are
slowing down, maybe because of silt...

539
00:39:44,201 --> 00:39:48,169
...building up from garbage dumped in the
bay or from the overuse of fertilizers.

540
00:39:48,928 --> 00:39:53,289
Lakes can die, entire
oceans become polluted...

541
00:39:53,354 --> 00:39:57,313
...topsoil, forests, water,
poisoned, dead.

542
00:39:57,369 --> 00:40:01,194
Things can change so
fast at the hands of man.

543
00:40:01,282 --> 00:40:05,903
Nature becomes fragile,
rain becomes acid.

544
00:40:05,967 --> 00:40:09,448
I agree with everything you said.
But why this patriarchal fixation?

545
00:40:10,322 --> 00:40:14,102
Those women witches were
betrayed by other women.

546
00:40:14,189 --> 00:40:16,328
Phyllis Schlafly, a woman, has
written that God's...

547
00:40:16,408 --> 00:40:18,689
...greatest gift to mankind
was the atom bomb.

548
00:40:18,736 --> 00:40:21,241
These are women. Why not just
say what's patriarchal...

549
00:40:21,288 --> 00:40:23,212
...is what's evil in both
men and women?

550
00:40:23,292 --> 00:40:27,711
There's plenty to go around
unless you happen to believe...

551
00:40:28,097 --> 00:40:31,069
...these women were brainwashed
by men, like Patty Hearst.

552
00:40:31,141 --> 00:40:32,868
Why are you so scornful?

553
00:40:32,925 --> 00:40:36,053
Look, there are two great principles
functioning in this entire...

554
00:40:36,133 --> 00:40:38,980
...living world: the male
principle, pick the adjective...

555
00:40:39,060 --> 00:40:42,164
...aggressive, dominating, whatever;
and the female principle...

556
00:40:42,253 --> 00:40:45,525
...nurturing, caretaking,
gentle, whatever...

557
00:40:45,612 --> 00:40:49,808
What I'm saying is that these 2 principles
may have been in a rough balance.

558
00:40:49,888 --> 00:40:52,623
But now the men and yes,
I do think IT IS the men...

559
00:40:52,695 --> 00:40:55,637
...have created the tools,
the weapons both intellectually...

560
00:40:55,716 --> 00:40:58,973
...and physically to bring these two
principles way out of balance.

561
00:40:59,068 --> 00:41:04,926
We've been placing mechanistic tools in the
hands of power-oriented patriarchal people.

562
00:41:04,990 --> 00:41:12,830
I'm saying you men are out of control now
and I, you, we... all we are the victims.

563
00:41:12,927 --> 00:41:15,395
So what's the risk?

564
00:41:15,467 --> 00:41:19,028
What's wrong with giving the
female principle an opportunity?

565
00:41:21,044 --> 00:41:23,668
And I say let's get out of this room.

566
00:41:23,723 --> 00:41:27,223
It's having a torturous
effect on our relationship.

567
00:41:43,304 --> 00:41:45,816
Look, Sonia. I'm sorry if I ruffled
your feathers down there.

568
00:41:45,888 --> 00:41:49,977
I just, um... you know...
I'm a failed husband.

569
00:41:51,994 --> 00:41:54,033
I'm a little too sensitive
about all that stuff.

570
00:41:54,385 --> 00:41:57,434
I'm also a starving poet
and a bad teacher...

571
00:41:58,098 --> 00:42:01,737
...and Jack's another midlife
casualty, except his wife's...

572
00:42:01,841 --> 00:42:04,777
...still around. May be there's a
connection in there somewhere for you.

573
00:42:05,401 --> 00:42:09,049
What do you do? What brings
you to this remote place?

574
00:42:09,713 --> 00:42:12,425
Well, let's see...

575
00:42:13,506 --> 00:42:19,026
I'm a scientist still, even though
I'm on a semi permanent sabbatical.

576
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:21,130
How come?

577
00:42:21,523 --> 00:42:24,042
I got tired of seeing my work fed
to the U. S. Defense Department.

578
00:42:24,875 --> 00:42:28,818
I'm a physicist, the only woman
in my graduate department...

579
00:42:28,987 --> 00:42:35,459
...the first in Norway doing quantum
field theory. My specialty was lasers.

580
00:42:35,523 --> 00:42:40,259
At that time, the challenge was to design
lasers of ever-shorter wavelengths.

581
00:42:40,324 --> 00:42:43,667
The shorter the wavelength,
the more powerful the laser.

582
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:47,585
Our ultimate goal was to
create an x-ray laser.

583
00:42:47,665 --> 00:42:53,121
One day I hit upon an unusual
idea which, as it turned out...

584
00:42:53,185 --> 00:42:56,321
...led to a major advance
in that x-ray laser.

585
00:42:56,377 --> 00:43:01,261
Well, when you do something like that,
science treats you very well.

586
00:43:01,349 --> 00:43:03,798
I got many attractive offers...

587
00:43:04,493 --> 00:43:08,005
First from Paris and then from
the States and I took them.

588
00:43:08,078 --> 00:43:13,156
Finally working quite happily
in Boston until one day...

589
00:43:13,268 --> 00:43:19,418
I discovered, totally unexpectedly,
that my work was being perverted.

590
00:43:21,090 --> 00:43:26,612
I had always looked at the medical
applications of my work of using...

591
00:43:26,685 --> 00:43:33,127
...this laser to provide holographic
images of cells or even molecules.

592
00:43:33,191 --> 00:43:39,128
It could have helped us solve so many
puzzles, even the formation of cancer cells.

593
00:43:39,208 --> 00:43:45,197
But what really happened was that a more
sophisticated version of my idea was...

594
00:43:45,276 --> 00:43:50,076
...being used in the star wars
program, and it blew my mind.

595
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:54,861
It... it made me re-evaluate
my whole profession.

596
00:43:57,614 --> 00:43:59,878
Anyway, to cut it short...

597
00:44:00,485 --> 00:44:05,366
...in the midst of other events
I just got up and left.

598
00:44:05,590 --> 00:44:08,005
What were the other
events, if I may ask?

599
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:11,167
Experiences not all that different
from yours, I suppose.

600
00:44:11,999 --> 00:44:15,385
I left Boston and
eventually I came here.

601
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:22,080
I just came one day from Paris
and the place took hold of me.

602
00:44:22,128 --> 00:44:24,617
I kept coming back.

603
00:44:24,697 --> 00:44:28,713
There were weeks when the
storms chased the tourists away...

604
00:44:28,777 --> 00:44:31,975
...and I had this place all to myself.

605
00:44:32,775 --> 00:44:38,087
I started to look at how my special
knowledge of subatomic physics...

606
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:41,222
...relates to the way I
perceive the world at large.

607
00:44:41,302 --> 00:44:46,046
I don't know, but I think that I'll have
something to say after my time here.

608
00:44:47,324 --> 00:44:50,429
I don't know yet if it will fit
into a coherent whole.

609
00:44:50,524 --> 00:44:55,344
But it's what I ponder when I
take my morning walks, which...

610
00:44:55,537 --> 00:44:57,901
...today, for some reason,
brought me to you two.

611
00:44:58,494 --> 00:45:02,093
See, every morning, I walk
across the island regardless...

612
00:45:02,158 --> 00:45:06,478
...of the weather trying to
understand its other language.

613
00:45:07,045 --> 00:45:09,750
The stones speak, and I'm silent.

614
00:45:11,358 --> 00:45:15,262
Something like that, yes.
That's from a poem, isn't it?

615
00:45:15,783 --> 00:45:20,600
Well, maybe, I don't know. Do you ever
write down any of your thoughts?

616
00:45:21,095 --> 00:45:22,559
Oh, yes, all the time.

617
00:45:22,623 --> 00:45:25,231
I'd like to combine my notes
into a book and call it...

618
00:45:25,303 --> 00:45:28,287
...Ecological Thinking, as
opposed to Cartesian Thinking.

619
00:45:28,352 --> 00:45:30,036
Cartesian?

620
00:45:30,996 --> 00:45:34,583
Yeah, Descartes wrote in latin. His latin
name was Cartesius, hence Cartesian.

621
00:45:34,631 --> 00:45:37,792
Really? I thought it meant
map-like, like a map.

622
00:45:37,864 --> 00:45:41,813
- You thought it meant like "a la carte".
- Yes, like a menu.

623
00:45:41,873 --> 00:45:44,685
Then his name would
have been Menusian.

624
00:45:46,908 --> 00:45:52,847
I'd like to offer this ecological way of
thinking as a new way of looking at things.

625
00:45:52,895 --> 00:45:56,031
Help us overcome this
crisis of perception.

626
00:45:56,575 --> 00:46:01,347
See, what I've found here is that
to think in an ecological way...

627
00:46:01,434 --> 00:46:03,366
...simply makes more sense of everything.

628
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:08,079
It gives me a much firmer grasp
of reality. It gives me strength.

629
00:46:08,575 --> 00:46:10,438
Knowledge is power?

630
00:46:10,992 --> 00:46:15,004
Yes, but in the sense of
personal empowerment.

631
00:46:15,084 --> 00:46:18,325
Not that old male urge
for power over others.

632
00:46:18,811 --> 00:46:20,844
Descartes' evil empire again?

633
00:46:22,154 --> 00:46:23,765
Descartes had a dream.

634
00:46:23,964 --> 00:46:27,223
It was really Isaac Newton who
made that dream come true.

635
00:46:27,296 --> 00:46:31,984
Who transformed it into
scientific theory, into power.

636
00:46:32,095 --> 00:46:36,307
"May God us keep from single vision
and Newton's sleep." William Blake.

637
00:46:36,404 --> 00:46:39,676
- I'm very impressed.
- You two would have a lot in common.

638
00:46:40,492 --> 00:46:44,212
He was writing in poetry 200 years ago
what you're saying today in prose.

639
00:46:44,301 --> 00:46:47,333
He hated Newton's
concept of single vision.

640
00:46:47,413 --> 00:46:50,685
He dedicated his entire life to making
art that denied single vision.

641
00:46:50,772 --> 00:46:54,957
Of course, the people of his
time thought he was a crank.

642
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:59,265
Whereas they revered
Newton almost as a god.

643
00:46:59,345 --> 00:47:04,793
By reducing all physical phenomena
to the motion of material particles...

644
00:47:04,864 --> 00:47:08,960
...a motion caused by the force of gravity,
he was able to describe the exact...

645
00:47:09,024 --> 00:47:13,968
...effect of gravity on any object
with precise mathematical equations.

646
00:47:14,448 --> 00:47:17,096
We call it Newton's laws of motion...

647
00:47:17,185 --> 00:47:21,302
...really, the great achievement
of 17th century science.

648
00:47:21,494 --> 00:47:25,814
You mean all that stuff I slept through
in high school, that square root of...

649
00:47:25,902 --> 00:47:28,669
...the hypotenuse divided
by a pinch of magnesium?

650
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:32,688
Well, in the right hands, or
should I say, aroused minds...

651
00:47:32,765 --> 00:47:35,342
...these equations seems
to work beautifully.

652
00:47:45,511 --> 00:47:48,817
I could use Newton's equations
to calculate and explain...

653
00:47:48,896 --> 00:47:53,583
...every motion of that throw, from the
ballistic curve to the ripples in the water.

654
00:47:53,648 --> 00:47:56,905
This was a feat so impressive
for the time that Newton's...

655
00:47:56,985 --> 00:47:59,985
...mathematical system
immediately established itself as...

656
00:48:00,064 --> 00:48:04,145
...The correct theory of reality,
the ultimate laws of nature.

657
00:48:04,193 --> 00:48:08,069
Descartes' dream of the world
as a perfect machine...

658
00:48:08,109 --> 00:48:11,573
...was now an established fact.

659
00:48:11,645 --> 00:48:16,317
It brought with it such a
wealth of benefits for people.

660
00:48:16,397 --> 00:48:18,901
People could do things they
never been able to do before.

661
00:48:18,997 --> 00:48:22,363
It was irresistible, and of
course, the old notions of...

662
00:48:22,442 --> 00:48:25,681
...the world as a living
organism was swept away.

663
00:48:26,235 --> 00:48:27,771
So, what's wrong with Newton?

664
00:48:29,089 --> 00:48:30,706
Kit.

665
00:48:31,275 --> 00:48:34,339
Well, this is my daughter
Kit and her friend Roman.

666
00:48:34,538 --> 00:48:36,911
Kit, this is <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON>.

667
00:48:36,977 --> 00:48:38,513
- How you do?
- And this is Jack, uh--

668
00:48:38,592 --> 00:48:41,353
- Jack Edwards.
- Yeah, Jack Edwards. Hi.

669
00:48:41,976 --> 00:48:45,059
What do you think of this new
ecological view of your mother's?

670
00:48:45,267 --> 00:48:47,251
It's O.K.

671
00:48:47,403 --> 00:48:50,043
Kit is utterly bored
hearing me talk about it.

672
00:48:50,107 --> 00:48:53,787
Yeah, well... We're going
to go. Nice to meet you.

673
00:48:53,892 --> 00:48:55,535
Yes, nice meeting you.

674
00:48:55,663 --> 00:48:57,199
- Have fun.
- See you later.

675
00:49:01,947 --> 00:49:04,067
Well, so she's living here with you?

676
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:08,385
No, she's in her first year in
college, she's on a break.

677
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,257
But right now, yes, I think she's
utterly bored living here with me.

678
00:49:14,129 --> 00:49:16,369
I understand that.
I have two of my own.

679
00:49:16,890 --> 00:49:19,649
Yeah, I had--
I mean I have one.

680
00:49:22,313 --> 00:49:27,247
You know, it's no accident
that Turner painted light...

681
00:49:27,421 --> 00:49:33,439
...when he did or that light became
the inspiration of the impressionists.

682
00:49:34,775 --> 00:49:39,903
The nature of light became an
obsession with the physicists, too.

683
00:49:40,134 --> 00:49:46,927
See, none of them could visualize how
the light of the sun reached the earth.

684
00:49:48,479 --> 00:49:51,553
Why?
What is nature of light?

685
00:49:52,617 --> 00:49:58,152
To understand the nature of light, you
have to know what matter is made of.

686
00:49:58,449 --> 00:50:00,153
I thought it was made of atoms.

687
00:50:00,368 --> 00:50:05,968
What's an atom? Newton
thought it was small, solid particles.

688
00:50:06,602 --> 00:50:10,751
But that's not what scientists saw when
they observed atoms for the first time.

689
00:50:10,823 --> 00:50:15,302
What they saw was totally
unexpected and shocking.

690
00:50:15,422 --> 00:50:18,843
You mean, when they discovered atoms
were made up of even smaller particles...

691
00:50:19,036 --> 00:50:21,971
...a nucleus with electrons
whirling around it?

692
00:50:22,507 --> 00:50:29,821
Not only that. They were moving in
relatively vast regions of empty space.

693
00:50:30,413 --> 00:50:37,105
That's what shook the scientists up.
Atoms consist mainly of empty space.

694
00:50:37,242 --> 00:50:40,460
What's that mean, vast regions of
empty space? Atoms are tiny.

695
00:50:40,563 --> 00:50:43,253
Yes, they are, this is what's
so hard to visualize.

696
00:50:43,851 --> 00:50:49,549
See, the size of atoms is so far removed
from our ordinary sense of scale and...

697
00:50:49,637 --> 00:50:53,485
...proportion that it's extremely hard
to get a feeling for the relative...

698
00:50:53,573 --> 00:50:57,390
...sizes and distances of their particles.

699
00:50:57,797 --> 00:51:01,478
Ask yourself, how many atoms
are there in an orange?

700
00:51:01,533 --> 00:51:04,725
To answer this, you'll have to
blow up the orange to a size...

701
00:51:04,805 --> 00:51:06,541
...where you can actually see the atoms.

702
00:51:06,654 --> 00:51:11,657
You'll have to blow up the orange
until it's reached the size of the earth.

703
00:51:11,745 --> 00:51:17,514
The atoms inside of it will then
be the size of cherries.

704
00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:25,190
Myriads of cherries tightly packed
into an orange the size of earth.

705
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:28,903
Wow, what an image!
I'm serious.

706
00:51:28,976 --> 00:51:32,960
I was trying to shrink the earth
orange back to a real orange and...

707
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,663
...imagine all those cherries
whizzing around, it made me dizzy.

708
00:51:36,743 --> 00:51:39,240
This is a dangerous
height to be dizzy at.

709
00:51:39,327 --> 00:51:44,775
But O.K. The atoms the size of a
cherry and in that cherry-atom...

710
00:51:44,872 --> 00:51:47,269
...there's all of this empty space.
What about the nucleus?

711
00:51:47,375 --> 00:51:50,921
There's a nucleus, right?
How big is that?

712
00:51:50,985 --> 00:51:53,185
"Invisible" is the answer.

713
00:51:53,266 --> 00:51:56,387
If we blow up the atom to
the size of a football...

714
00:51:56,388 --> 00:51:59,098
...the nucleus would still be invisible.

715
00:51:59,177 --> 00:52:03,297
If we blow it up to the size
of a sphere that fits...

716
00:52:03,369 --> 00:52:06,978
...in this room, the nucleus
would still be invisible.

717
00:52:07,425 --> 00:52:11,705
What about the size of this island,
the rock we're standing on?

718
00:52:11,778 --> 00:52:14,178
O.K.

719
00:52:14,314 --> 00:52:20,084
We would blow the atom, the cherry,
up to the size of this island...

720
00:52:22,708 --> 00:52:29,277
...then the nucleus would be the size
of a small pebble, something like that.

721
00:52:29,917 --> 00:52:32,693
And the electrons would
be much smaller still.

722
00:52:32,788 --> 00:52:36,880
We would have to look for them
all the way down there...

723
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,524
...at the edge of the island.

724
00:52:40,054 --> 00:52:43,573
And whole space in between
would be empty.

725
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:45,741
- Wow, that's fantastic!
- That's weird.

726
00:52:45,814 --> 00:52:48,030
That's even weirder than poetry.

727
00:52:48,118 --> 00:52:52,437
So, what you're saying is
that if there were a sphere...

728
00:52:52,539 --> 00:52:54,765
...large enough to contain
this whole island...

729
00:52:54,845 --> 00:52:58,293
...it would actually consist of a
pebble and a few grains of sand?

730
00:52:58,372 --> 00:53:00,503
That's all this huge sphere contains?

731
00:53:00,671 --> 00:53:04,047
In other words, nothing?
It's empty?

732
00:53:05,046 --> 00:53:11,455
But if this rock is made of spheres
like that, then what makes it so solid?

733
00:53:11,550 --> 00:53:13,378
Why can't I pass my hand through it?

734
00:53:13,450 --> 00:53:17,362
-Why don't we fall through it?
-Why don't we fall through everything?

735
00:53:17,441 --> 00:53:23,201
This is the obvious question that
physicists had to ask.

736
00:53:30,994 --> 00:53:35,762
Now remember that all the newtonian
concepts were based on things...

737
00:53:35,841 --> 00:53:39,771
...that could actually be seen
or at least visualized...

738
00:53:39,819 --> 00:53:45,098
...but what they were now finding in
this strange and unexpected world...

739
00:53:46,266 --> 00:53:50,738
...were concepts that could
no longer be visualized.

740
00:53:51,258 --> 00:53:54,572
And when they went on battling
with these absurd phenomena of...

741
00:53:54,667 --> 00:53:57,395
...atomic physics, they were
forced to admit to themselves...

742
00:53:57,500 --> 00:54:00,915
...they didn't have a language,
not even an adequate way of...

743
00:54:01,019 --> 00:54:04,227
...thinking to describe
their new discoveries.

744
00:54:04,859 --> 00:54:08,636
They were forced to think
in entirely new ways.

745
00:54:08,731 --> 00:54:11,172
In terms of radically new concepts.

746
00:54:13,459 --> 00:54:22,301
To understand why matter is so solid they
had to question the conventional ideas...

747
00:54:22,381 --> 00:54:27,637
...about the very existence of matter,
and after many frustrating years...

748
00:54:27,732 --> 00:54:35,025
...they were forced to admit that
matter does not exist with certainty...

749
00:54:35,113 --> 00:54:42,290
...in definite places, but rather
shows tendencies to exist.

750
00:54:42,354 --> 00:54:44,138
Tendency?
What's that mean?

751
00:54:44,217 --> 00:54:48,708
Let's say we want to observe
an electron out there.

752
00:54:48,813 --> 00:54:53,442
We cannot say it is in a definite
place, we can rather say it...

753
00:54:53,521 --> 00:54:58,123
...has a tendency to be out there
in the front, rather that in...

754
00:54:58,195 --> 00:55:03,558
...the back, or here to the left,
rather that over there to the right.

755
00:55:04,335 --> 00:55:08,863
In scientific language we actually
don't speak about tendencies...

756
00:55:08,935 --> 00:55:11,527
...we speak about probabilities.

757
00:55:11,775 --> 00:55:16,156
I seem to remember voting for a bill that
gave some physicists a lot of money for...

758
00:55:16,236 --> 00:55:19,928
...a detector that they said would
tell them exactly where an electron is.

759
00:55:20,015 --> 00:55:22,575
- Were we being gypped?
- Not at all.

760
00:55:22,671 --> 00:55:29,892
The strange thing is that when you actually
make a measurement of the electron...

761
00:55:29,989 --> 00:55:35,774
...it is in a definite place, but between
measurements you can not say...

762
00:55:35,861 --> 00:55:41,032
...that it is in a definite place
or that it has traveled...

763
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:46,000
...a definite path from one
place to another.

764
00:55:46,352 --> 00:55:49,099
You mean when you want to measure
it, it just sort of shows up?

765
00:55:49,194 --> 00:55:50,915
Yeah.

766
00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:54,585
Like out-of-work actors or presidential
candidates like Jack Edwards.

767
00:55:54,672 --> 00:55:56,695
What do you think?
What do you think?

768
00:55:57,776 --> 00:55:59,855
- Hey tough guy.
- Yeah.

769
00:56:02,584 --> 00:56:04,372
Oh, my knees hurt.

770
00:56:05,156 --> 00:56:07,221
O.K. Let me get this straight.

771
00:56:07,316 --> 00:56:12,896
You measure and the electron is
there, it shows up, like Tom said.

772
00:56:13,408 --> 00:56:17,705
But in between measurements,
you can't say for sure that it's...

773
00:56:17,785 --> 00:56:21,141
...in a definite place or
even that it went on...

774
00:56:21,213 --> 00:56:23,333
...a definite path from
one place to another.

775
00:56:23,869 --> 00:56:28,063
So how does it go from here to there?
It moves, doesn't it?

776
00:56:28,191 --> 00:56:30,367
No.

777
00:56:30,903 --> 00:56:34,390
- You mean it stays in the same place?
- No.

778
00:56:35,311 --> 00:56:38,086
Either the electron moves,
or it doesn't move.

779
00:56:38,711 --> 00:56:40,430
Well, you can't say that.

780
00:56:40,526 --> 00:56:45,655
Well, are you getting a feeling now
of what these physicists felt?

781
00:56:45,726 --> 00:56:49,786
You see, an electron doesn't
move from place to place.

782
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,144
And it doesn't stay in
one place, either.

783
00:56:52,657 --> 00:56:58,853
It manifests itself as probability
patterns spread out in space.

784
00:56:58,957 --> 00:57:04,053
And the shape of these probability
patterns changes with time...

785
00:57:04,181 --> 00:57:08,061
...something which might seem like
movement to human perception.

786
00:57:08,157 --> 00:57:13,505
Are you saying that the electron
gets smeared out over a large...

787
00:57:13,586 --> 00:57:17,418
...region and then when you measure
it with the measuring gun...

788
00:57:17,499 --> 00:57:19,499
...it collapses into a small point?

789
00:57:20,226 --> 00:57:21,923
You got it.

790
00:57:23,050 --> 00:57:26,890
All subatomic particles,
electrons, protons, neutrons...

791
00:57:27,447 --> 00:57:35,324
...manifest this strange existence
between potentiality and reality.

792
00:57:35,411 --> 00:57:41,396
So at the subatomic level,
there are no solid objects.

793
00:57:41,939 --> 00:57:44,492
No, there are not.

794
00:57:44,581 --> 00:57:47,716
Well, if there are no solid objects
at the subatomic level...

795
00:57:47,796 --> 00:57:51,089
...how are there solid
objects at any level?

796
00:57:51,177 --> 00:57:52,896
That's the amazing thing.

797
00:57:53,034 --> 00:57:58,073
This simple question, what
makes this rock so solid?

798
00:57:58,153 --> 00:58:01,301
...goes way beyond our
power of imagination.

799
00:58:01,373 --> 00:58:05,389
I mean, I cannot explain
this to you in visual terms.

800
00:58:05,469 --> 00:58:07,910
Of course I can do it in
mathematical equations...

801
00:58:07,980 --> 00:58:10,509
...but there's no metaphor for it.

802
00:58:10,582 --> 00:58:13,870
How can you live in a
world that's unmetaphorical?

803
00:58:13,941 --> 00:58:17,668
I mean, you have to
perceive reality in some way.

804
00:58:17,771 --> 00:58:20,372
I mean, this is solid.

805
00:58:21,326 --> 00:58:23,606
O.K.

806
00:58:23,727 --> 00:58:28,515
Let's take an atom from
within this granite...

807
00:58:28,595 --> 00:58:31,647
...the silicon atom with
its 14 electrons.

808
00:58:31,752 --> 00:58:39,924
The probability patterns of these
electrons arrange themselves...

809
00:58:40,003 --> 00:58:45,704
...like shells around the nucleus,
each shell containing several electrons.

810
00:58:45,784 --> 00:58:50,952
Within the shells the electrons are
every where at the same time...

811
00:58:51,017 --> 00:58:55,853
...so to speak, but the probability
patterns that resemble shells...

812
00:58:56,397 --> 00:59:01,255
...are extremely stable and
very hard to compress.

813
00:59:01,759 --> 00:59:07,516
Matter is solid because probability
patterns are difficult to compress?

814
00:59:07,608 --> 00:59:10,345
That's as good as it gets.

815
00:59:10,434 --> 00:59:13,598
So I was right to sleep
through Mr. Gides' physic class...

816
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:16,239
...that model he made me out
of tinker toys with sticks...

817
00:59:16,318 --> 00:59:19,087
- ...and balls that was wrong, right?
- Right, wrong.

818
00:59:19,669 --> 00:59:24,963
Yeah, it's a lousy visualization,
but then, no one did it any better.

819
00:59:24,970 --> 00:59:28,200
"If the doors of perception were
cleansed everything would...

820
00:59:28,205 --> 00:59:31,760
...appear as it is, infinite."
William Blake.

821
00:59:56,385 --> 01:00:01,825
So, Sonia, life's a bunch of
probability patterns running around.

822
01:00:02,265 --> 01:00:06,692
- Probability patterns of what?
- Of interconnections.

823
01:00:07,452 --> 01:00:09,667
What?

824
01:00:10,093 --> 01:00:14,986
Well, what I'm trying to say is
that this probabilities are not...

825
01:00:15,074 --> 01:00:20,884
...probabilities of things, but
probabilities of interconnections.

826
01:00:20,949 --> 01:00:23,297
See, Jack. That's what
she was trying to tell you.

827
01:00:23,345 --> 01:00:28,323
See, we tend to think of subatomic
particles are some kind of small...

828
01:00:28,387 --> 01:00:31,851
...billiards balls or small grains of sand.

829
01:00:31,891 --> 01:00:35,943
But for physicists a particle
has no independent existence.

830
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:42,937
A particle is essentially a
set of relations that reach...

831
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,466
...outward to connect
with other things.

832
01:00:46,554 --> 01:00:48,286
What are those other
things, please?

833
01:00:48,358 --> 01:00:51,853
They're interconnections of
yet other things which also...

834
01:00:51,934 --> 01:00:55,022
...turn out to be interconnections,
and so on, and so on.

835
01:00:55,078 --> 01:00:59,142
In atomic physics we never
end up with any things at all.

836
01:00:59,622 --> 01:01:06,988
The essential nature of matter lies
not in objects, but in interconnections.

837
01:01:09,837 --> 01:01:13,485
Everybody knows the chord, it's a
third, the most basic of harmonies.

838
01:01:13,573 --> 01:01:16,074
It carries with it a very
distinctive feeling, no?

839
01:01:16,179 --> 01:01:20,634
And yet it's individual notes
carry none of that feeling.

840
01:01:21,162 --> 01:01:25,318
Therefore, the essence of
the chord lies in its--

841
01:01:25,390 --> 01:01:27,742
Lies in relationships.

842
01:01:27,998 --> 01:01:32,059
And then the relationship
between time and pitch...

843
01:01:33,020 --> 01:01:35,493
- Makes melody.
- Makes melody.

844
01:01:37,412 --> 01:01:42,788
- Relationships make music.
- Relationships make matter.

845
01:01:42,886 --> 01:01:46,437
- Music of the spheres.
- As Kepler said.

846
01:01:46,509 --> 01:01:50,680
- And Shakespeare before him.
- And Pythagoras before him.

847
01:01:51,128 --> 01:01:54,097
Now, this vision of the universe
arranged in harmonies of...

848
01:01:54,176 --> 01:01:57,480
...sounds and relations
is no new discovery.

849
01:01:57,936 --> 01:02:01,280
Today, physicists are simply proving
that what we call an object...

850
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:08,279
...an atom, a molecule, a particle,
is only an approximation, a metaphor.

851
01:02:08,342 --> 01:02:12,641
At the subatomic level, it
dissolves into a series of...

852
01:02:12,688 --> 01:02:17,673
...interconnections like chords
of music. It's beautiful.

853
01:02:17,769 --> 01:02:20,273
Yeah, but there are
boundaries, aren't there?

854
01:02:20,353 --> 01:02:23,960
I mean, between you
and me, for instance.

855
01:02:24,657 --> 01:02:30,813
We are two separate bodies, aren't
we? That's not an illusion. Is it?

856
01:02:32,757 --> 01:02:37,342
Are you saying that there
is a physical connection...

857
01:02:37,429 --> 01:02:41,604
...between you and me, and
you and the wall behind you...

858
01:02:41,660 --> 01:02:46,139
- ...and the air and this bench?
- Yes.

859
01:02:48,884 --> 01:02:53,381
At the subatomic level there
is a continual exchange of...

860
01:02:53,461 --> 01:02:57,325
...matter and energy between
my hand and this wood...

861
01:02:57,789 --> 01:03:04,101
...between the wood and the air,
and even between you and me.

862
01:03:04,189 --> 01:03:07,948
I mean a real exchange of
photons and electrons.

863
01:03:08,014 --> 01:03:11,157
Ultimately, whether
we like it or not...

864
01:03:11,221 --> 01:03:16,573
...we're all part of one
inseparable web of relationships.

865
01:03:42,932 --> 01:03:48,663
- How does all this explain light?
- Yes, finally, light.

866
01:03:49,607 --> 01:03:52,691
Light doesn't need a medium
because although it...

867
01:03:52,770 --> 01:03:56,469
...travels in waves, it also
travels as particles.

868
01:03:58,813 --> 01:04:01,229
Light is both particles and waves?

869
01:04:01,293 --> 01:04:06,133
Yes, but the particles of light,
which we call photons...

870
01:04:06,517 --> 01:04:09,169
...are of a very special kind.

871
01:04:09,608 --> 01:04:12,465
Unlike other particles,
they never stands still.

872
01:04:12,874 --> 01:04:15,320
They never speed up,
they never slow down.

873
01:04:15,408 --> 01:04:19,056
They always travel at the same
speed. The speed of light.

874
01:04:19,159 --> 01:04:23,515
And the waves are not
ordinary waves, like water waves.

875
01:04:23,595 --> 01:04:29,143
They're abstract patterns of
probabilities traveling in the form...

876
01:04:29,215 --> 01:04:32,255
- ...of waves.  -Patterns of
relationships like everything else?

877
01:04:32,343 --> 01:04:34,898
- Exactly.
- I get it...

878
01:04:36,379 --> 01:04:40,522
Well, I don't get it.
But I... I get it.

879
01:04:41,658 --> 01:04:43,674
Let there be light.

880
01:04:43,771 --> 01:04:48,877
And like light, a great variety of
other high-energy particles...

881
01:04:48,965 --> 01:04:51,600
...cosmic rays bombard the earth.

882
01:04:51,664 --> 01:04:55,412
All these particles colliding
with the air creating...

883
01:04:55,500 --> 01:04:58,532
...more particles, interacting
further, creating and...

884
01:04:58,603 --> 01:05:02,540
...destroying more particles, and we
are in the middle of this cosmic...

885
01:05:02,603 --> 01:05:07,560
...dance of creation and destruction.
All of us, all the time.

886
01:05:07,624 --> 01:05:11,120
- Shiva Nataraj.
- I beg your pardon?

887
01:05:11,217 --> 01:05:14,141
Shiva Nataraj.
The hindu god of dance.

888
01:05:14,204 --> 01:05:17,554
The hindus believe that Shiva's
dance sustains the universe...

889
01:05:17,625 --> 01:05:23,043
...that Shiva's dance IS the universe.
A ceaseless flow of energy going...

890
01:05:23,106 --> 01:05:26,455
...through a multiplicity of patterns
dissolving into one another...

891
01:05:26,527 --> 01:05:28,615
- That's physics.
- No, that's poetry.

892
01:05:29,495 --> 01:05:33,701
That's wonderful.
No, really. That's great.

893
01:05:33,791 --> 01:05:36,744
But I hope it doesn't bother anybody.

894
01:05:36,807 --> 01:05:40,503
What do you do with this?
What's it for?

895
01:05:40,568 --> 01:05:42,744
You don't do anything
with it, I don't think.

896
01:05:42,824 --> 01:05:44,649
You just think about it,
just contemplate it.

897
01:05:44,728 --> 01:05:48,216
You guys hungry? I'm hungry.
Let's go get something to eat.

898
01:06:00,153 --> 01:06:04,609
How can they do that here? I mean,
how can they do that anywhere?

899
01:06:04,672 --> 01:06:07,168
- It's your fault.
- What?!

900
01:06:07,802 --> 01:06:09,850
Well, O.K., it's not your fault.

901
01:06:09,929 --> 01:06:11,993
It's physicists' fault.
They made the bomb.

902
01:06:12,049 --> 01:06:15,873
Well, you can't blame
littering on the bomb.

903
01:06:15,962 --> 01:06:19,362
Why not? The bomb made
the whole planet disposable.

904
01:06:19,433 --> 01:06:22,179
Littering is an expression
of powerlessness.

905
01:06:22,252 --> 01:06:24,419
Like, "hey, what difference
does more crap make?"

906
01:06:24,515 --> 01:06:26,787
It's all going anyway.
Kaplooey!

907
01:06:26,874 --> 01:06:28,953
Maybe you're right.

908
01:06:33,794 --> 01:06:38,626
You know, I visited
Hiroshima 10 years ago.

909
01:06:39,410 --> 01:06:41,890
I went to the museums.

910
01:06:41,986 --> 01:06:45,595
I saw the photographs
of devastation.

911
01:06:45,682 --> 01:06:49,148
I went to the Peace Park.

912
01:06:49,892 --> 01:06:55,220
Looked at all the monuments...
the statue of a mother with a baby...

913
01:06:55,292 --> 01:06:59,781
...the statue of a goddess
enveloped in paper cranes...

914
01:07:00,421 --> 01:07:02,543
...Big Peace Bell.

915
01:07:04,711 --> 01:07:10,032
And then I saw a mound about
6 feet high covered with grass.

916
01:07:10,112 --> 01:07:12,437
It wasn't decorated in any way.

917
01:07:12,493 --> 01:07:16,534
It wasn't a symbol of
anything, no monument.

918
01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:25,118
It simply contained the ashes
of the atomic bomb victims.

919
01:07:25,646 --> 01:07:30,894
The actual remains of what was
left of tens, maybe hundreds...

920
01:07:30,958 --> 01:07:34,471
...and thousands of men and
women and children...

921
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,254
...incinerated because
of our knowledge.

922
01:07:40,087 --> 01:07:48,128
A flash of light that burned them
and obliterated them and totally...

923
01:07:48,207 --> 01:07:53,064
...transformed the world.

924
01:07:53,759 --> 01:07:58,809
And as I stood in front of
that mound of ashes I...

925
01:07:59,969 --> 01:08:05,150
...felt that I was face-to-face
with the victims of--

926
01:08:07,632 --> 01:08:11,016
I can't say it. The victims of...

927
01:08:11,064 --> 01:08:15,256
...my work as a
scientist, as a physicist.

928
01:08:20,337 --> 01:08:22,369
I cried.

929
01:08:27,978 --> 01:08:30,874
When I was little, up on the
third floor with my brother...

930
01:08:30,963 --> 01:08:34,217
...we'd lay on our beds watching
the heat lightning flashes...

931
01:08:34,289 --> 01:08:35,855
...and he'd say "What's that?"

932
01:08:35,961 --> 01:08:39,993
And I'd say "That's it, that's the
big one, we're all going to die."

933
01:08:40,559 --> 01:08:44,547
You can't make yourself responsible
for Hiroshima, Sonia...

934
01:08:44,603 --> 01:08:46,795
...just because you do physics.

935
01:08:46,875 --> 01:08:50,028
You didn't invent the bomb. And
even if you had, somebody...

936
01:08:50,187 --> 01:08:52,928
...else decided to use
it, a politician.

937
01:08:53,881 --> 01:08:56,498
Oppenheimer said he felt he
had blood on his hands...

938
01:08:56,578 --> 01:08:58,786
...and he did invented it.
President Truman's answer was...

939
01:08:58,842 --> 01:09:00,546
"Who the hell does he think he is?

940
01:09:00,625 --> 01:09:03,131
I'm the one who ordered
them to drop the damn thing."

941
01:09:03,210 --> 01:09:05,218
Even Oppenheimer wasn't to blame.

942
01:09:05,291 --> 01:09:08,493
Scientists are supposed to figure
things out, the rest of us figure...

943
01:09:08,589 --> 01:09:10,990
...out what to do about it.

944
01:09:11,062 --> 01:09:13,414
I'm sorry, Sonia. I was kidding.

945
01:09:13,982 --> 01:09:17,772
Maybe littering is more an expression
of poor toilet training, hmm?

946
01:09:18,373 --> 01:09:22,258
I don't know, maybe we
could change the subject.

947
01:09:23,122 --> 01:09:27,874
There's no accountability for
scientists as there is for...

948
01:09:27,978 --> 01:09:29,778
...other professions.

949
01:09:29,850 --> 01:09:32,154
Why aren't we obliged, like
medical doctors, to not...

950
01:09:32,211 --> 01:09:35,115
...use our knowledge destructively?

951
01:09:35,179 --> 01:09:37,818
It's not that simple. I don't think.

952
01:09:37,890 --> 01:09:40,908
Oppenheimer said he had
blood in his hands.

953
01:09:40,978 --> 01:09:43,564
He had regrets after the fact.

954
01:09:44,163 --> 01:09:47,668
I have regrets because
of my x-ray laser.

955
01:09:48,284 --> 01:09:52,404
See, I'm responsible for the
consequences of my discovery.

956
01:09:54,340 --> 01:09:59,265
You know, we never talked about
responsibility at the university...

957
01:09:59,338 --> 01:10:02,458
...not in my time.
We never discussed ethics.

958
01:10:02,538 --> 01:10:05,314
We were never taught value thinking.

959
01:10:05,378 --> 01:10:10,395
No one induced upon us the
wisdom of the american...

960
01:10:10,467 --> 01:10:14,146
...indian tribes who made all their...

961
01:10:14,241 --> 01:10:17,587
...important decisions with the
seventh generation in mind.

962
01:10:19,331 --> 01:10:22,708
We were never taught to think
about the future that way.

963
01:10:22,796 --> 01:10:26,771
We were taught in our closed rooms
that we were doing pure science...

964
01:10:27,395 --> 01:10:35,782
...in pursuit of pure truth.
The noble pursuit of pure truth.

965
01:10:36,551 --> 01:10:39,724
Well, that's what science is, Sonia.
Don't be so hard on yourself.

966
01:10:39,821 --> 01:10:45,731
No, that's what science was maybe,
but pure science hardly exists today.

967
01:10:45,819 --> 01:10:49,380
The scientist isn't sitting in his
lab anymore choosing to work...

968
01:10:49,460 --> 01:10:53,444
...on what fascinates him most.
Science is expensive.

969
01:10:53,515 --> 01:10:58,164
The Pentagon, who pays most of it,
decides what is fascinating.

970
01:10:58,212 --> 01:11:05,364
70% of all science done in the United
States today is paid by the military.

971
01:11:05,428 --> 01:11:10,812
We give our knowledge away without
thinking about the values...

972
01:11:10,877 --> 01:11:13,854
...without thinking about
who is responsible.

973
01:11:14,318 --> 01:11:16,246
But there is oversight.

974
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:18,540
I've served on some of those
oversight committees.

975
01:11:18,604 --> 01:11:23,604
Scientism is any rational belief
in the truth of science.

976
01:11:25,718 --> 01:11:28,450
It's become a religion today.

977
01:11:28,522 --> 01:11:32,686
It's not a good religion, but
it is a dominating religion.

978
01:11:33,269 --> 01:11:37,750
And people, of course, who see
what miracles physicists...

979
01:11:37,814 --> 01:11:42,127
...are able to achieve, like going to
outer space, splitting atoms...

980
01:11:42,190 --> 01:11:46,430
...or making bombs, believe that
scientists who are so powerful...

981
01:11:46,504 --> 01:11:50,974
...also must be very wise, and
so they don't question their...

982
01:11:51,054 --> 01:11:55,296
...work anymore and they leave
their own responsibility in the...

983
01:11:55,359 --> 01:12:01,280
...hands of these people they envision
to have this power of knowledge.

984
01:12:03,217 --> 01:12:06,095
And although they know that
scientists are doing scary...

985
01:12:06,176 --> 01:12:09,673
...things in the shadows, they just
hope that they will be careful.

986
01:12:10,817 --> 01:12:15,201
And then scientists hand
over THEIR responsibility...

987
01:12:15,265 --> 01:12:17,985
...to those who are paying them.

988
01:12:18,657 --> 01:12:23,186
And I know what happens when
you hand over your responsibility...

989
01:12:23,251 --> 01:12:27,741
...to those who pay you,
like I did with my laser.

990
01:12:29,686 --> 01:12:32,543
It broke my heart.

991
01:12:32,727 --> 01:12:35,648
If you're worried about the possible
dangers of genetic engineering...

992
01:12:35,711 --> 01:12:38,352
...you get advice from a scientist.

993
01:12:38,424 --> 01:12:40,673
He's the only one who understands.

994
01:12:40,729 --> 01:12:43,352
You pretty much have to
take his word for it too...

995
01:12:43,432 --> 01:12:47,024
...because often you don't
know even what questions to ask.

996
01:12:49,613 --> 01:12:53,424
Science should welcome your
questions, because science...

997
01:12:53,486 --> 01:12:55,856
...itself should question everything.

998
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,351
You know, this oversight committees
hold hearings from time to time...

999
01:12:59,919 --> 01:13:04,958
...where the public is invited to
comment, maybe you should be there.

1000
01:13:05,029 --> 01:13:07,862
Personally, you might be
able to do some good.

1001
01:13:10,637 --> 01:13:13,677
He's still running. Only the
Terminator can stop him.

1002
01:13:14,414 --> 01:13:16,438
Should we get the check?

1003
01:13:16,534 --> 01:13:19,861
- I'll pay.
- Oh, no, no.

1004
01:13:27,146 --> 01:13:31,605
1968, Chicago.
Democratic Convention.

1005
01:13:31,666 --> 01:13:34,735
The cops are getting ready the charge
the demonstrator and I'm standing...

1006
01:13:34,801 --> 01:13:37,964
...next to this guy who I've never
before seen, and I say to him...

1007
01:13:38,007 --> 01:13:42,829
"Well, I'm going home". He says
"Don't go home, go into politics"

1008
01:13:42,896 --> 01:13:44,888
...and like a fool, I listened to him.

1009
01:13:44,940 --> 01:13:49,117
That guy was Jack who is today
a conservative democrat...

1010
01:13:49,177 --> 01:13:51,651
...whatever the hell that is.

1011
01:13:51,652 --> 01:13:55,110
I was working for a delegate,
I wasn't even a demonstrator.

1012
01:13:55,193 --> 01:13:59,038
I was just trying to get into the Hall.
Then the cops charged the crowd.

1013
01:13:59,095 --> 01:14:03,535
We all got tear-gassed, I broke my nose.
We spent the night in Mayor Daley's jail.

1014
01:14:05,153 --> 01:14:07,804
Whatever happened to all those people?

1015
01:14:07,868 --> 01:14:11,756
Jesse Jackson got most of them.
The rest went to sleep.

1016
01:14:11,827 --> 01:14:14,414
I don't mean politically, Jack.
The primaries are over.

1017
01:14:14,478 --> 01:14:18,097
Personally... whatever happened to them?
Where they live? What do they do?

1018
01:14:18,166 --> 01:14:19,652
I don't know personally.

1019
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,171
But politically, the Green Party
got them, at least in Europe.

1020
01:14:22,244 --> 01:14:25,809
Peace activists, environmentalists,
the feminists, the students left...

1021
01:14:25,907 --> 01:14:28,961
...the Green Party got them all.

1022
01:14:29,011 --> 01:14:30,793
What happened to them really?

1023
01:14:30,861 --> 01:14:34,004
I think it proves that ecological thinking
is getting stronger and stronger...

1024
01:14:34,081 --> 01:14:39,088
...people who see the whole picture,
who see that all these questions...

1025
01:14:39,144 --> 01:14:41,306
...are related to each other.

1026
01:14:41,355 --> 01:14:45,007
- She's back.
- And Gorvachev?

1027
01:14:45,052 --> 01:14:48,255
Gorvachev? Was he at the
Chicago Demonstration?

1028
01:14:51,889 --> 01:14:55,018
Mom. I thought you
were with those men.

1029
01:14:55,078 --> 01:15:00,501
- I am. They're out there. Hello, Roman.
- Bonjour, Madame.

1030
01:15:05,063 --> 01:15:09,838
We're going to the beach.
I'm changing my shoes.

1031
01:15:13,866 --> 01:15:17,333
- What's the trouble?
- Nothing.

1032
01:15:18,518 --> 01:15:23,181
- Did I do something wrong?
- No, it's...

1033
01:15:23,226 --> 01:15:27,967
...just I can't stand you talking
about what's wrong with the world...

1034
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:32,270
...and your new vision of reality,
when what I hear is that...

1035
01:15:32,348 --> 01:15:35,305
...you're talking about
your own problems.

1036
01:15:35,399 --> 01:15:40,176
How your self feel disconnected,
I mean, you can't even relate to me.

1037
01:15:42,639 --> 01:15:48,448
- Are you coming with us this time?
- Yeah. Come, Kit. Please.

1038
01:15:53,957 --> 01:15:57,399
- Do you mind if I go?
- No.

1039
01:15:58,039 --> 01:16:02,291
I like Jack. Be real with him.
Don't bore him to death.

1040
01:16:02,374 --> 01:16:06,356
- Kit, he's a married man.
- It could do you some good.

1041
01:16:19,923 --> 01:16:23,137
In the 1968, Richard Nixon
won the youth vote.

1042
01:16:24,508 --> 01:16:28,018
In 1980 and 1984 Ronald
Reagan did the same thing.

1043
01:16:30,045 --> 01:16:32,734
Majority of americans
are very conservative.

1044
01:16:34,599 --> 01:16:38,573
I think we are dealing with a historical
process that's so deep that...

1045
01:16:38,636 --> 01:16:41,476
...even americans won't be
able to resist it much longer.

1046
01:16:41,548 --> 01:16:45,979
When I look around in the sciences, I see
the same patterns emerging everywhere...

1047
01:16:46,021 --> 01:16:50,435
...the same notions of holism, the same
thinking in terms of processes...

1048
01:16:50,491 --> 01:16:54,799
...instead of structures. It's happening
in America too, because once something...

1049
01:16:54,849 --> 01:16:57,616
...takes hold in the sciences, it will spread.

1050
01:16:57,676 --> 01:17:00,520
It always has, whether we like it or not.

1051
01:17:02,215 --> 01:17:04,950
I'm glad to hear you say that.

1052
01:17:05,666 --> 01:17:08,227
I thought you'd given up on America.

1053
01:17:23,143 --> 01:17:25,429
What's wrong with him?

1054
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,286
The color has probably caught him.

1055
01:17:29,870 --> 01:17:33,168
He's a poet.
He's got a license to be moody.

1056
01:17:35,079 --> 01:17:38,560
It's taken him miles from his
home, but it's kept him free.

1057
01:17:39,786 --> 01:17:46,018
I sometimes think he can change
his thoughts, his point of view...

1058
01:17:46,126 --> 01:17:48,197
...about anything anytime he wants.

1059
01:17:48,261 --> 01:17:50,791
When he meets someone like
you who sees things in a...

1060
01:17:50,856 --> 01:17:53,819
...completely new way, he's
totally free to go along with it.

1061
01:17:53,882 --> 01:17:58,335
And should you succeed in really
changing his views and win him over.

1062
01:17:58,391 --> 01:18:02,951
You can be sure, he'd put those
new ideas into a play or...

1063
01:18:02,997 --> 01:18:07,683
...a poem and people would
admire him for his flexibility.

1064
01:18:07,742 --> 01:18:12,718
And you... you feel
constrained by your constituency.

1065
01:18:13,366 --> 01:18:15,248
Yeah, kind of.

1066
01:18:16,708 --> 01:18:18,928
They want me to be the good
old conservative democrat...

1067
01:18:19,013 --> 01:18:22,164
...they voted for and
basically, that's what I am.

1068
01:18:22,925 --> 01:18:27,462
Anyway, I'm supposed to represent
them. It's not all up to me.

1069
01:18:28,339 --> 01:18:32,625
It's supposed to be the will of the people
that sets the course and the government...

1070
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:35,997
...that finds the means, the best
way to give the folks what they want.

1071
01:18:36,683 --> 01:18:44,180
Of course, it's all a mess right now.
The problems are so complex.

1072
01:18:44,250 --> 01:18:47,724
There's so much crossover
from one problem to another.

1073
01:18:47,792 --> 01:18:50,343
It's hard for people to even
begin to think about them.

1074
01:18:54,934 --> 01:18:58,923
But still... I think Thomas Jefferson
was every bit as...

1075
01:18:58,987 --> 01:19:02,369
...great a mind as Isaac Newton was.

1076
01:19:02,424 --> 01:19:05,047
I doubt if there's been a better
form of government...

1077
01:19:05,127 --> 01:19:08,366
...anywhere in history ever and,
of course, getting into...

1078
01:19:08,430 --> 01:19:11,596
...politics is nothing to be ashamed of.

1079
01:19:11,660 --> 01:19:14,570
To me it's still the biggest
challenge there is.

1080
01:19:16,324 --> 01:19:19,733
But things are changing
faster and faster every day.

1081
01:19:20,527 --> 01:19:23,831
A few years back, the greenhouse
effect was just a theory...

1082
01:19:23,889 --> 01:19:26,602
...and now... we're
just not keeping up.

1083
01:19:26,694 --> 01:19:29,755
But, Sonia, the question is,
can you ideas change that?

1084
01:19:29,822 --> 01:19:32,197
Hasn't a lot of what we've
talked about been discussed...

1085
01:19:32,250 --> 01:19:36,872
...and recognized already, recognized
in all the environmental legislation?

1086
01:19:36,939 --> 01:19:41,495
Clean water in '72. Clean air in '77.
12, 14 years ago.

1087
01:19:41,558 --> 01:19:42,942
And we're still falling behind.

1088
01:19:43,012 --> 01:19:45,347
So can your ideas make
these things move faster?

1089
01:19:45,615 --> 01:19:48,783
I mean, if you're going
to wait for most of the...

1090
01:19:48,849 --> 01:19:51,553
people to be ready to go along
with you, before you move...

1091
01:19:51,617 --> 01:19:53,680
which is what you have to do...

1092
01:19:54,966 --> 01:19:57,560
I'm sure you're not a secret
lover of dictatorships, but...

1093
01:19:57,654 --> 01:20:03,149
...wouldn't it take some totalitarian
regime to put ideas as comprehensive...

1094
01:20:03,214 --> 01:20:09,294
...as yours into effect? So, how
does all this translate into politics?

1095
01:20:10,473 --> 01:20:13,585
Is this just going to be the best
conversation I've had in months or is...

1096
01:20:13,648 --> 01:20:16,213
...there still a chance you can get me
elected president? That's what I...

1097
01:20:16,297 --> 01:20:21,743
- ...want to know.
- You're still asking me for a program.

1098
01:20:21,807 --> 01:20:26,005
I'm trying to make you
embrace a vision...

1099
01:20:26,583 --> 01:20:29,668
...but you just want to know
what the packaging is.

1100
01:20:29,732 --> 01:20:33,615
I'm a practical man.
I'm from Missouri.

1101
01:20:33,663 --> 01:20:39,854
- I thought you were from the east coast.
- That's an expression. It means: Show Me.

1102
01:20:41,013 --> 01:20:44,203
Devising policies, that's your job.

1103
01:20:46,043 --> 01:20:50,132
I do think that as long as you
continue looking at things...

1104
01:20:50,201 --> 01:20:54,114
...through that old
patriarchal-cartesian-newtonian lens...

1105
01:20:54,178 --> 01:20:57,547
...you're going to miss out
on what the world really is.

1106
01:20:59,154 --> 01:21:05,032
You, we, all of us, we need a new vision
of the world and we need a more...

1107
01:21:05,133 --> 01:21:09,437
...comprehensive, more
inclusive science to support us.

1108
01:21:11,629 --> 01:21:16,193
There is a new theory emerging
now which places all the ecological...

1109
01:21:16,258 --> 01:21:21,865
...concepts we've talking about into
one coherent, scientific framework.

1110
01:21:21,934 --> 01:21:28,597
We call it Systems Theory,
the theory of living systems.

1111
01:21:28,650 --> 01:21:31,576
Living systems?

1112
01:21:31,641 --> 01:21:38,135
All living organisms as well as
social systems and ecosystems.

1113
01:21:39,151 --> 01:21:42,331
This theory would help us get
a much firmer grasp on...

1114
01:21:42,419 --> 01:21:44,899
...the sciences that deal with life.

1115
01:21:44,976 --> 01:21:49,264
Are these all your own ideas,
or do other people share them?

1116
01:21:49,328 --> 01:21:52,662
Has these been applied
in the sciences anywhere?

1117
01:21:52,717 --> 01:21:57,123
Am I a crank?
It's O.K., senator.

1118
01:21:57,664 --> 01:22:02,152
This is real science, and many
scientists, including some...

1119
01:22:02,232 --> 01:22:06,714
...Nobel laureates, have
been working on these ideas...

1120
01:22:06,799 --> 01:22:12,313
Prigogine, Bateson, Maturana,
just to mention a few.

1121
01:22:13,632 --> 01:22:18,710
Yes, it is science,
but of a new kind.

1122
01:22:19,547 --> 01:22:24,293
Instead of concentrating on
basic building blocks, the...

1123
01:22:24,373 --> 01:22:28,863
...systems view concentrates
on principles of organization.

1124
01:22:28,937 --> 01:22:33,210
Instead of cutting things to
pieces, it looks at the...

1125
01:22:33,285 --> 01:22:36,697
...living system as a whole.

1126
01:22:37,971 --> 01:22:41,971
How can you think usefully about
things in this holistic way?

1127
01:22:42,034 --> 01:22:47,041
You can contemplate them, you
can look at them, as Thomas says...

1128
01:22:47,601 --> 01:22:51,652
But if you want to do something,
if you want to get into specifics...

1129
01:22:51,692 --> 01:22:54,801
...by definition, don't you
have to take things apart?

1130
01:22:55,442 --> 01:22:59,849
How you can talk usefully about
a tree without talking...

1131
01:22:59,925 --> 01:23:03,331
...about its roots, or
its leaves or its bark?

1132
01:23:03,390 --> 01:23:07,481
Well, I could without even
naming the parts you mention.

1133
01:23:07,568 --> 01:23:11,928
A cartesian would look at
the tree and conceptually take...

1134
01:23:11,980 --> 01:23:16,026
...it to pieces, but then he
would never really understand...

1135
01:23:16,102 --> 01:23:18,345
...the nature of the tree.

1136
01:23:18,413 --> 01:23:22,082
A systems thinker would look
at the tree and see the...

1137
01:23:22,142 --> 01:23:26,710
...seasonal exchange between
tree and earth, earth and sky.

1138
01:23:27,271 --> 01:23:32,705
Would see the annual cycle,
which really is one big breath...

1139
01:23:32,770 --> 01:23:38,174
...the earth takes through its
forests, providing us with oxygen.

1140
01:23:38,250 --> 01:23:45,281
A breath of life, linking the earth
with the sky and us with the universe.

1141
01:23:45,359 --> 01:23:52,423
A systems thinker would look at the
tree and see the life of the tree...

1142
01:23:52,501 --> 01:23:56,305
...only in relation to the
life of the whole forest.

1143
01:23:57,454 --> 01:24:02,770
Would see the tree as a habitat
for birds, a home for insects.

1144
01:24:03,685 --> 01:24:09,794
But if you look at the tree and try to
understand it as something separate...

1145
01:24:09,850 --> 01:24:14,171
...you will be bewildered by the
millions of fruits it's producing...

1146
01:24:14,248 --> 01:24:20,279
...in its lifetime because only one or
two trees will grow from those fruits.

1147
01:24:20,961 --> 01:24:26,009
Though if you look at the tree
and see it as a member of a...

1148
01:24:26,104 --> 01:24:30,865
...larger living system, that
abundance of fruits will make...

1149
01:24:30,940 --> 01:24:35,804
...sense, because hundreds upon
hundreds of forest animals...

1150
01:24:35,879 --> 01:24:41,643
...and birds will survive because
of them... Interdependence.

1151
01:24:41,719 --> 01:24:45,572
And the tree cannot
survive on its own, either.

1152
01:24:45,646 --> 01:24:48,667
To draw water from the ground
it needs the fungus that...

1153
01:24:48,759 --> 01:24:52,453
...grows at the tip of each root,
and the fungus needs the...

1154
01:24:52,535 --> 01:24:56,155
...root to survive, and
the root needs the fungus.

1155
01:24:56,226 --> 01:24:58,480
If one dies, the other dies.

1156
01:24:58,543 --> 01:25:02,865
And there are millions of
relationships like this in our world...

1157
01:25:02,949 --> 01:25:05,709
...each depending on
each other for life.

1158
01:25:07,440 --> 01:25:12,785
The Systems Theory recognizes
this web of relationships...

1159
01:25:12,841 --> 01:25:16,394
...as the essence of all living things.

1160
01:25:16,462 --> 01:25:20,693
Only the uninformed would call such
a notion naive or romantic...

1161
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:26,639
...because this dependency we
all share is a scientific fact.

1162
01:25:26,692 --> 01:25:28,704
A web of relationships?

1163
01:25:28,759 --> 01:25:34,065
Yes, but this time it is
the web of life itself.

1164
01:25:34,141 --> 01:25:41,776
The theory of living systems actually
provides you with an outline...

1165
01:25:41,864 --> 01:25:48,145
...of an answer to that eternal
question: What is Life?

1166
01:25:50,867 --> 01:25:55,012
O.K., Sonia. Let's hear it.
What's life?

1167
01:25:55,080 --> 01:26:02,420
In system language the answer would be...
The Essence of Life is Self-Organization.

1168
01:26:03,645 --> 01:26:06,965
- What's so funny?
- That's great.

1169
01:26:08,289 --> 01:26:13,921
What is life, ma'am? Is self-organizing,
I mean, that's very nice.

1170
01:26:13,964 --> 01:26:16,099
That's very, very, very, nice.

1171
01:26:16,159 --> 01:26:18,859
That's very nice, ma'am.
That's very, very nice.

1172
01:26:18,882 --> 01:26:23,017
I don't know, it sounds like something
out of Alice in Wonderland.

1173
01:26:23,610 --> 01:26:27,561
Maybe somebody down here speaks
your language... Jabberwocky?

1174
01:26:29,935 --> 01:26:32,617
You know, as Merlin once
said to King Arthur...

1175
01:26:32,665 --> 01:26:36,237
"Don't dishonor your feast by
rejecting what's come to it"

1176
01:26:36,314 --> 01:26:39,657
Well said.
What is life?

1177
01:26:39,715 --> 01:26:44,712
Life is self-organizing.
Well, that's just extraordinary.

1178
01:26:44,796 --> 01:26:49,926
Yes, it is.
And it means something specific too.

1179
01:26:49,958 --> 01:26:57,237
It means that a living system is
self-maintaining, self-renewing...

1180
01:26:57,301 --> 01:27:00,741
- ...self-transcending.
- What does self-maintaining mean?

1181
01:27:01,739 --> 01:27:06,735
Well, it means that a living
system, although depending on...

1182
01:27:06,811 --> 01:27:10,606
...its environment, is
not determined by it.

1183
01:27:10,674 --> 01:27:14,186
Take the yellow fields of rye
around this island, with all...

1184
01:27:14,277 --> 01:27:17,653
...the rain here those fields
should be green all year round...

1185
01:27:17,748 --> 01:27:21,288
...but every summer
they turn yellow, why?

1186
01:27:21,376 --> 01:27:28,506
Well, to use a metaphor, each plant
"remembers" that it originated...

1187
01:27:28,569 --> 01:27:31,664
...in the hot and dry climate of
southern Asia, it remembers...

1188
01:27:31,728 --> 01:27:37,727
...and not even a dramatically different
climate can change its inner workings.

1189
01:27:37,829 --> 01:27:42,648
- Self-maintaining, self-organizing.
- I see.

1190
01:27:42,718 --> 01:27:46,302
What about self-renewing?
What does that mean?

1191
01:27:46,364 --> 01:27:51,779
Take us. Like all living organisms,
we are constantly replacing...

1192
01:27:51,835 --> 01:27:57,889
...ourselves in continuous cycles,
much faster than you can imagine.

1193
01:27:58,691 --> 01:28:02,287
You pancreas, for example,
do you know that it replaces most...

1194
01:28:02,363 --> 01:28:05,265
...of its cells within 24 hours?

1195
01:28:05,338 --> 01:28:08,233
That means that you wake up with
a new pancreas each morning...

1196
01:28:08,295 --> 01:28:10,938
...and a new stomach lining as well.

1197
01:28:10,991 --> 01:28:15,027
And you skin, do you know that
your skin falls off at the rate of...

1198
01:28:15,100 --> 01:28:18,489
...100,000 cells a minute?

1199
01:28:18,562 --> 01:28:22,457
Do you know that most of the
dust in our homes consists of our...

1200
01:28:22,533 --> 01:28:25,090
...own dead skin cells?

1201
01:28:25,144 --> 01:28:29,411
That'll get into a poem.
Our households are filled with dead skin.

1202
01:28:30,620 --> 01:28:35,250
But at the same time, as all
these dead cells are being shed...

1203
01:28:35,321 --> 01:28:38,969
...just as many are dividing
and producing new skin.

1204
01:28:40,058 --> 01:28:41,629
That's self-renewing.

1205
01:28:41,697 --> 01:28:44,734
As Heraclitus once said "A man
can't step into the same river...

1206
01:28:44,809 --> 01:28:48,037
...twice", Sonia says a man can't
shake hands with the same man...

1207
01:28:48,105 --> 01:28:51,535
- ...twice with the same hand, right?
- Yes and no.

1208
01:28:51,606 --> 01:28:55,111
Though most of our cells are
being replaced, we do recognize...

1209
01:28:55,180 --> 01:28:59,757
...each other because the
pattern of our organization...

1210
01:28:59,847 --> 01:29:02,584
...is still the same.

1211
01:29:02,653 --> 01:29:06,032
That's one of the important
characteristics of life...

1212
01:29:06,557 --> 01:29:12,459
...continuous structural change,
but stability in the pattern...

1213
01:29:12,526 --> 01:29:16,133
- ...of the system's organization.
- And that's all there is to life?

1214
01:29:16,211 --> 01:29:20,430
No, there is self-transcending.

1215
01:29:20,494 --> 01:29:25,416
Self-organization is not
only the living systems...

1216
01:29:25,461 --> 01:29:30,464
...maintaining themselves and
continuously renewing themselves.

1217
01:29:31,202 --> 01:29:36,132
It also means that they
have an inherent tendency to...

1218
01:29:36,212 --> 01:29:43,653
...transcend themselves, to
reach out and create new forms.

1219
01:29:44,545 --> 01:29:50,097
That is one of the most exciting
parts to me that the basic dynamics...

1220
01:29:50,177 --> 01:29:55,191
...of evolution it's not
adaptation, it's creativity.

1221
01:29:55,258 --> 01:29:58,243
You mean living systems will
evolve just for the hell of it?

1222
01:29:58,312 --> 01:30:00,929
They'll go exploring whether
they need it for survive or not?

1223
01:30:00,991 --> 01:30:03,786
I'm not so far out of
step as I usually suppose?

1224
01:30:03,850 --> 01:30:10,314
No, you're not. Creativity
is a basic element of evolution.

1225
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:14,572
Every living organism has
the potential for creativity...

1226
01:30:14,664 --> 01:30:18,293
...for surprising and
transcending itself.

1227
01:30:18,356 --> 01:30:22,686
- Creating what, for instance, beauty?
- Oh, yes, beauty too.

1228
01:30:22,762 --> 01:30:28,136
Evolution is so much more than
adaptation to the environment...

1229
01:30:28,201 --> 01:30:34,541
...because what is the environment
if not a living system wich evolves...

1230
01:30:34,609 --> 01:30:42,207
...and creatively adapts itself?
So, which adapts to which?

1231
01:30:42,953 --> 01:30:47,955
Each to the other,
they... co-evolve.

1232
01:30:48,568 --> 01:30:56,357
Evolution is an ongoing dance,
an ongoing conversation.

1233
01:30:56,441 --> 01:30:59,476
We are systems, and
the planet is a system.

1234
01:31:00,262 --> 01:31:05,607
We don't evolve on the planet,
we evolve with the planet.

1235
01:31:05,662 --> 01:31:11,008
Wouldn't it be extraordinarily
powerful if you could introduce...

1236
01:31:11,072 --> 01:31:14,304
...just that one idea into
the political dialogue?

1237
01:31:14,368 --> 01:31:16,755
Yeah, Jack. There might be
something in this for you to...

1238
01:31:16,830 --> 01:31:21,131
...renew you candidacy,
while as for Sonia and myself--

1239
01:31:21,171 --> 01:31:25,359
I beg you're going to say it was
my destiny to come here and...

1240
01:31:25,383 --> 01:31:30,767
...meet Sonia and listen to these ideas.
What am I going to do about this?

1241
01:31:32,231 --> 01:31:35,175
I come from a country where
they use 40% of the world's...

1242
01:31:35,246 --> 01:31:38,472
...resources to support 6% of
the world's population, which...

1243
01:31:38,540 --> 01:31:41,452
...makes the population so
happy and peaceful that we're...

1244
01:31:41,524 --> 01:31:43,763
...the world's biggest drug market.

1245
01:31:43,827 --> 01:31:47,317
Half our teenagers contemplate
suicide, one in five girls has tried it.

1246
01:31:48,293 --> 01:31:51,762
Would a system thinker give
nuclear energy a second thought?

1247
01:31:51,853 --> 01:31:54,433
We're up to our necks
in all of its waste.

1248
01:31:54,524 --> 01:31:57,945
And the most important issue of
what you've just been saying...

1249
01:31:58,037 --> 01:32:03,323
...is the obsessive pursuit of
growth. That has to stop.

1250
01:32:03,398 --> 01:32:06,427
I know, I know.
I've been over this a hundred times...

1251
01:32:06,521 --> 01:32:10,040
...obsessive growth, pathological
growth, destructive growth...

1252
01:32:10,133 --> 01:32:12,518
...but how are you going to
get anybody to accept it?

1253
01:32:12,612 --> 01:32:15,628
What am I going to do?
Where do you start?

1254
01:32:15,695 --> 01:32:20,911
We have to give importance to
the next generation, and the next.

1255
01:32:21,752 --> 01:32:25,715
It was only when we
failed to include them in...

1256
01:32:25,816 --> 01:32:29,346
...our scientific theories, and
in our pursuit of growth...

1257
01:32:29,438 --> 01:32:33,029
...that we placed all
living systems in jeopardy.

1258
01:32:33,081 --> 01:32:39,881
Just contemplate that horrifying
fact that we are leaving to our...

1259
01:32:39,975 --> 01:32:45,060
...children the most poisonous
of wastes: plutonium.

1260
01:32:45,529 --> 01:32:49,423
It's going to remain poisonous
for the next generation...

1261
01:32:49,467 --> 01:32:51,301
...and the next, and the next.

1262
01:32:51,377 --> 01:32:55,554
In fact, it's going to remain
poisonous for a half million years.

1263
01:32:55,624 --> 01:33:00,053
We should never have accepted
that theory "Knowledge is power".

1264
01:33:00,121 --> 01:33:02,830
We should never have accepted
the idea that what's good for...

1265
01:33:02,895 --> 01:33:09,235
...General Motors is good for America.
We need a sustainable society.

1266
01:33:09,289 --> 01:33:13,024
One in which our needs are being
satisfied without diminishing...

1267
01:33:13,126 --> 01:33:16,838
...the possibilities of
the next generation.

1268
01:33:16,914 --> 01:33:20,944
You're asking me--
You're asking me what should you do?

1269
01:33:21,016 --> 01:33:23,564
I don't know what you should do.
You know what you should do.

1270
01:33:23,620 --> 01:33:27,816
I know that what worked for me
was to come here, be quiet...

1271
01:33:28,801 --> 01:33:34,447
...and take one thing at a time,
think one thought to its end.

1272
01:33:34,502 --> 01:33:40,850
Now, that was my first real step...
Telling you was my second.

1273
01:33:40,912 --> 01:33:42,854
You can't pass the buck that easily.

1274
01:33:44,064 --> 01:33:47,361
How about doing something
direct about this?

1275
01:33:47,413 --> 01:33:51,413
How about helping me?
How about joining my staff?

1276
01:33:52,125 --> 01:33:54,669
What--
What do you mean?

1277
01:33:54,734 --> 01:33:56,203
I don't know...

1278
01:33:56,271 --> 01:33:59,692
Finding a way to get these ideas of
yours into the political mainstream.

1279
01:34:00,342 --> 01:34:04,146
You say the ideas are practical,
I'll give you a chance to prove it.

1280
01:34:04,213 --> 01:34:08,547
It would be a frustrating work,
you'd have to watch a lot of lying...

1281
01:34:08,625 --> 01:34:12,136
...and wheeling and dealing and
learns how to compromise, too.

1282
01:34:12,193 --> 01:34:15,369
You'd have to get your hands dirty.

1283
01:34:17,121 --> 01:34:23,380
I get them dirty the way I
want here, in my Ivory Tower...

1284
01:34:23,460 --> 01:34:27,381
...where I can sit and think.

1285
01:34:28,105 --> 01:34:31,827
Jack, with his tenacious
pursuit of the common good, not...

1286
01:34:31,895 --> 01:34:35,374
...to mention his own career,
just doesn't seem to understand...

1287
01:34:35,423 --> 01:34:37,686
...how an individual
could want to get away...

1288
01:34:38,211 --> 01:34:41,779
...a long, long way away,
thousands and thousands and...

1289
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:44,096
...thousands of miles away.

1290
01:34:44,149 --> 01:34:47,322
So you can be a voice crying
in the wilderness instead...

1291
01:34:47,394 --> 01:34:51,775
...of being one of many voices trying
to be heard over the clamor?

1292
01:34:52,292 --> 01:34:56,914
Believe me, I can
appreciate being here...

1293
01:34:57,455 --> 01:35:00,739
I can understand why
that would be nice...

1294
01:35:03,253 --> 01:35:07,264
I see the pedestrian
nature of political work, but...

1295
01:35:07,826 --> 01:35:13,664
Look, if you're going to say no,
don't say anything just think it over.

1296
01:35:27,562 --> 01:35:29,879
What time does the tide actually come in?

1297
01:35:29,940 --> 01:35:34,509
It will be soon now. It's going
to reach its all-year high today.

1298
01:35:34,562 --> 01:35:39,748
We can go closer.
Come.

1299
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:43,914
Thomas must like you.

1300
01:35:44,487 --> 01:35:49,192
He doesn't usually have this much
time for other people's ideas. Do you?

1301
01:35:49,276 --> 01:35:55,740
Not yours, maybe.
No, that's not nice.

1302
01:35:55,809 --> 01:35:58,467
Yes, I like her.
I like you.

1303
01:35:58,521 --> 01:36:03,268
You have a lot of guts to
come here, isolate, stay put...

1304
01:36:03,335 --> 01:36:06,010
...determine to figure things
out until you had something...

1305
01:36:06,078 --> 01:36:10,115
...to offer a couple of
sods like you and I.

1306
01:36:10,693 --> 01:36:13,360
A lot of people talk about
doing thins like that.

1307
01:36:13,436 --> 01:36:16,208
But how many people actually do it?

1308
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:18,996
You could have stayed as long,
read as much, and decided...

1309
01:36:19,034 --> 01:36:21,293
...you have nothing to offer.

1310
01:36:21,362 --> 01:36:25,167
An isolation in and of itself
is a very scaring thing, Jack.

1311
01:36:25,239 --> 01:36:28,437
So, yeah, I like you.
I like you, too.

1312
01:36:28,493 --> 01:36:31,939
It was very brave of you to listen. I'd
have been disappointed if you hadn't.

1313
01:36:33,138 --> 01:36:38,896
But you know, Jack, I'm not
so sure that strong-arming her...

1314
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:42,711
...into a washingtonian office is
exactly where she needs to be right now.

1315
01:36:42,759 --> 01:36:45,878
In fact, it may be exactly
where she doesn't need to be.

1316
01:36:45,962 --> 01:36:48,258
What's eating you?

1317
01:36:49,223 --> 01:36:52,902
Yeah, you're right.
What is this, group therapy?

1318
01:36:57,363 --> 01:37:00,725
All this is covered in water
when the tide comes in, isn't it?

1319
01:37:00,776 --> 01:37:02,511
Oh, yes.

1320
01:37:02,579 --> 01:37:05,839
Including the pastures, must
take a special breed of sheep...

1321
01:37:05,915 --> 01:37:08,951
...to be able grazing here
around with all this salt.

1322
01:37:09,002 --> 01:37:12,948
And how could the grass grow
without the manure and the...

1323
01:37:12,996 --> 01:37:14,734
...sheep grazing on it?

1324
01:37:14,806 --> 01:37:18,427
I wouldn't be surprised if the people
here have a taste for salty lambs...

1325
01:37:18,511 --> 01:37:25,575
...so the people are in it too... the
sea, the grass, the people, the sheep.

1326
01:37:27,555 --> 01:37:34,210
<i>«You asked me what the lobster is
weaving down there with its golden feet?</i>

1327
01:37:34,273 --> 01:37:37,999
<i>I tell you, the ocean knows this.</i>

1328
01:37:38,817 --> 01:37:43,779
<i>You say, who is the ascidia
waiting for in its transparent bell?</i>

1329
01:37:44,825 --> 01:37:49,046
<i>I tell you, it's waiting
for time, like you.</i>

1330
01:37:50,027 --> 01:37:54,450
<i>You say, who does the
Macrocystis algae hug in its arms?</i>

1331
01:37:54,534 --> 01:38:00,558
<i>Study it, study it at a certain
hour, in a certain sea I know.</i>

1332
01:38:01,274 --> 01:38:04,853
<i>You question me about the
wicked tusk of the narwhal...</i>

1333
01:38:04,917 --> 01:38:08,259
<i>...and I respond by describing
to you how the sea unicorn...</i>

1334
01:38:08,307 --> 01:38:12,912
<i>...with a harpoon in it dies.</i>

1335
01:38:13,638 --> 01:38:17,590
<i>You inquire about the
kingfisher's feathers which tremble...</i>

1336
01:38:17,660 --> 01:38:21,288
<i>...in the pure springs
of the southern shores...</i>

1337
01:38:22,128 --> 01:38:25,232
<i>I want to tell you that
the ocean knows this...</i>

1338
01:38:25,334 --> 01:38:30,847
<i>...that life in its jewel boxes
is endless as the sand...</i>

1339
01:38:30,922 --> 01:38:35,903
<i>...impossible to count, pure, and that
time among the blood-colored grapes...</i>

1340
01:38:37,589 --> 01:38:41,408
<i>...has made the petal hard
and shiny, filled the...</i>

1341
01:38:41,478 --> 01:38:44,914
<i>...jellyfish with light, untied its
knot letting its musical threads...</i>

1342
01:38:44,971 --> 01:38:49,259
<i>...fall from a horn of plenty
made of infinite mother-of-pearl.</i>

1343
01:38:50,001 --> 01:38:53,773
<i>I'm nothing but the empty net which
has gone on ahead of human eyes...</i>

1344
01:38:53,849 --> 01:38:57,192
<i>...dead in the darknesses, of
fingers accustomed to the triangle...</i>

1345
01:38:57,264 --> 01:39:00,344
<i>...longitudes on the
timid globe of an orange.</i>

1346
01:39:00,978 --> 01:39:05,050
<i>I walked around like you
investigating the endless star.</i>

1347
01:39:06,569 --> 01:39:10,737
<i>And in my net during the
night I woke up naked.</i>

1348
01:39:11,707 --> 01:39:20,967
<i>The only thing caught?
A fish trapped inside the wind.»</i>

1349
01:39:24,308 --> 01:39:26,951
Pablo Neruda.

1350
01:39:29,154 --> 01:39:32,376
Pablo Neruda!

1351
01:39:33,333 --> 01:39:35,960
That remind you of anything?

1352
01:39:36,052 --> 01:39:39,822
"Walked around investigating the
endless star?"

1353
01:39:40,353 --> 01:39:42,873
Isn't that what you do, Sonia?

1354
01:39:42,916 --> 01:39:46,130
"And in my net during the night, I
awoke naked--" Isn't that what you do?

1355
01:39:46,193 --> 01:39:49,549
Don't you take your net and
throw it into these far-out places...

1356
01:39:49,596 --> 01:39:52,000
...of quantum physics
and systems theory?

1357
01:39:53,026 --> 01:39:55,805
And don't you find that the
only thing you ever catch...

1358
01:39:55,881 --> 01:39:57,963
...is your own self back again?

1359
01:39:59,910 --> 01:40:04,087
Like a fish trapped inside the wind?

1360
01:40:06,501 --> 01:40:12,697
Where are the other people in your
system, Sonia... the ones you love?

1361
01:40:14,093 --> 01:40:17,503
And what about this tourists
here that we feel so superior to?

1362
01:40:17,567 --> 01:40:21,513
Aren't they, too, like fish
trapped inside the wind?

1363
01:40:21,573 --> 01:40:24,536
And, I don't know, maybe even the
feeling's more terrible for them...

1364
01:40:24,593 --> 01:40:28,323
...because they don't
have words to describe it.

1365
01:40:29,792 --> 01:40:33,922
So, tell me Sonia, where
are all of us in there...

1366
01:40:34,562 --> 01:40:41,872
...the real people with their qualities,
their longings, their weaknesses?

1367
01:40:43,305 --> 01:40:48,296
Where are you inside there, Sonia?
Where's Kit?

1368
01:40:48,344 --> 01:40:52,055
You know, scientists can tell
us what life's internal...

1369
01:40:52,141 --> 01:40:55,717
...metaphors are, whether
they're computer chips or clocks.

1370
01:40:55,794 --> 01:40:59,507
Politician can tell us what
forms our lives should take...

1371
01:41:01,408 --> 01:41:03,795
But, uh...

1372
01:41:03,868 --> 01:41:09,466
I feel just as reduced being called a
system as I do being called a clock.

1373
01:41:09,526 --> 01:41:14,514
Life's just... just
not condensable.

1374
01:41:17,499 --> 01:41:20,569
One group of people uses
one set of words to change...

1375
01:41:20,644 --> 01:41:24,257
...the world, then another
set of people come along with a...

1376
01:41:24,324 --> 01:41:29,757
...different set of words to change it.
And I don't mind, you know?

1377
01:41:29,820 --> 01:41:33,725
It's all the same to me.
I don't mind a bit.

1378
01:41:33,742 --> 01:41:37,853
It's like the seasons
changing, and I like you.

1379
01:41:37,921 --> 01:41:40,694
I like your timorous courage.

1380
01:41:40,758 --> 01:41:43,268
I like the fact that you want to
make the world a better place.

1381
01:41:44,686 --> 01:41:48,567
And I like my silly friend Jack
who's crazy enough to think...

1382
01:41:48,647 --> 01:41:52,569
...that he wants to be the
president of the United States.

1383
01:41:52,657 --> 01:41:57,855
And as for me... don't mind me.
I'm a... fool.

1384
01:41:57,927 --> 01:42:02,320
But remember...

1385
01:42:02,393 --> 01:42:09,269
Life feels itself.
Life feels itself.

1386
01:42:11,495 --> 01:42:15,105
Differently, perhaps, than all your
words for how to manage it.

1387
01:42:15,783 --> 01:42:19,602
And even with the best intentions in the
world you'll go wrong if you forget...

1388
01:42:19,659 --> 01:42:22,777
...that life-- life-- life--

1389
01:42:22,857 --> 01:42:28,380
...life is infinitely more than yours
or my obtuse theories about it.

1390
01:42:28,818 --> 01:42:35,828
Healing the universe is an
inside job, and you've helped me.

1391
01:42:37,213 --> 01:42:39,685
And I love you.

1392
01:42:40,488 --> 01:42:45,386
And I love you too.
I love you both.

1393
01:42:47,690 --> 01:42:50,199
Water!

1394
01:42:51,277 --> 01:42:55,246
What a day!
What a day!

1395
01:43:53,045 --> 01:43:57,807
Well, if we're going to go,
we better leave now.

1396
01:43:57,879 --> 01:44:00,273
Why don't you just stay?

1397
01:44:00,347 --> 01:44:05,602
I don't know. Why don't you
just come? Anyway, thanks.

1398
01:44:08,114 --> 01:44:10,192
Thank you.

1399
01:44:10,249 --> 01:44:16,015
Don't thank me, I loved the day.
I hate goodbyes.

1400
01:44:16,088 --> 01:44:20,138
Maybe it's not goodbye.
Please think about what I said.

1401
01:44:21,431 --> 01:44:25,840
- Let us know how the water raises.
- Does that matter?

1402
01:44:25,901 --> 01:44:30,655
Of course it matters.
Let it get all the way back the line.

1403
01:44:30,721 --> 01:44:35,307
Let it renew itself. Right, Sonia?
Maybe come to Paris to let me know.

1404
01:44:35,409 --> 01:44:39,659
- Or Washington.
- Or New York.

1405
01:45:18,472 --> 01:45:24,856
<i>Where are the other people in your
system, Sonia... the ones you love?</i>

1406
01:45:27,677 --> 01:45:34,933
<i>The real people with their qualities...
their longings, their weaknesses.</i>

1407
01:45:34,990 --> 01:45:37,300
Mom, are you O.K.?

1408
01:45:37,376 --> 01:45:41,890
<i>Where are you inside there, Sonia?
Where's Kit?</i>

1409
01:45:50,697 --> 01:45:53,935
What are you thinking?

1410
01:46:00,467 --> 01:46:03,939
Shall we go home?

1411
01:46:23,434 --> 01:46:27,555
<i>I feel like my long weekend in France
has just come to a close.</i>

1412
01:46:28,224 --> 01:46:31,996
<i>Maybe I, too, am tired of being
a stranger, of being outside...</i>

1413
01:46:32,068 --> 01:46:37,367
<i>...a language environment which lived,
which resonated inside me...</i>

1414
01:46:37,851 --> 01:46:43,022
<i>...our emotional system, as she might
say, needs a larger system to nurture it.</i>

1415
01:46:48,646 --> 01:46:50,180
<i>Doesn't make any difference.</i>

1416
01:46:50,239 --> 01:46:53,308
<i>You're locked in with the people you know,
you need to belong somewhere.</i>

1417
01:46:53,374 --> 01:46:56,621
<i>- He's right, of course,
about damn near everything.</i>

1418
01:46:57,181 --> 01:47:00,879
<i>Even the parts I didn't
understand felt right.</i>

1419
01:47:01,952 --> 01:47:07,627
<i>So... should
I just go with it?</i>

1420
01:47:09,278 --> 01:47:11,888
<i>Is this one of those turning points?</i>

1421
01:47:18,272 --> 01:47:25,000
<i>«You the woman, I the man, this the
world, and each is the work of all.</i>

1422
01:47:25,568 --> 01:47:28,835
<i>It is the muffled step in the sand,
the stranger, the crippled wren...</i>

1423
01:47:28,914 --> 01:47:31,955
<i>...the nun, the dance of the angels,
winging over the walkers in the village.</i>

1424
01:47:32,027 --> 01:47:35,783
<i>And there are many beautiful arms
around us and the things we know...»</i>

1425
01:47:37,183 --> 01:47:41,562
<i>I don't know how the
rest of that damn poem goes.</i>