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Intro
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when I established my YouTube channel it’s what my tagline says that it’s education Beyond school so it’s
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education beyond what they teach you in school so all these kind of soft skills that now we are only now saying that
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it’s important to learn and educate kids about in school because when you graduate you are facing the real world
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where it’s not just based on your GPA it’s not just based on your transcript it’s a lot about how you present
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yourself how do you behave at social events or business etiquette or diplomatic etiquette whatever it might be so etiquette is is very much
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important and that’s exactly when I realized that I want to do etiquette more what do you recognize when you’re
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working with people or you’re watching video that they could actually enhance their standing based upon their body
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language so body language is huge part of etiquette because it’s the way we present ourselves to the world so even
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without saying something the way you walk up the stage can tell me a lot about how you feel about
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yourself before we jump into this episode I’d love to invite you to be a part of the community where you can
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listen to more content to help you be a smarter stronger and better equipped
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successful leader all you have to do is hit that subscribe button I would love and appreciate your support it’s amazing
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to me to watch the community grow and read all of your comments each and every week I can’t wait to go on the journey
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with you thank you so much and it means the world to me welcome to the impact driven leader podcast this is your host
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Tyler dickov man I’m excited today I’m excited I’m stumbling over my words and
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I’m so excited for our guest Jamila Musa she is an amazing content producer
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specifically around etiquette she has over 1 million followers 38 million
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views on YouTube She’s written three books she is raised lives in aeran and
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she is a mother of two she is a horse riter we’ll learn more about that and she regularly hosts etiquette workshops
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private coaching sessions for ambassadors young Diplomat she was educated in the United States and
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Belgium Jamila I’m so excited for this conversation we’re going to have so much fun I know it already I do too Tyler
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thank you so much for an amazing introduction I wasn’t expecting all of it to be like summed up so well oh thank
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you so let’s start with etiquette man I I want to get just a feel like where did
Why etiquette matters?
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it like all right so you’re an etiquette like Guru you understand we we’ll talk
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about uh etiquette and especially leadership but I want to know how what impressed upon you to serve the world
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through etiquette training and just this perspective of etiquette uh thank you for this question I love it because uh I
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think I haven’t been asked particularly this question ever before so I love when I’m asked intriguing questions that make
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me reflect more about why my purpose um so to answer your question I think the
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reason I decided to focus on etiquette um given my interest in cultures Traditions religion growing up here in
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aeran I was very much exposed to different cultures different Traditions um different languages and I traveled a
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lot with my parents so I was I always had this curious mind about why and how other people lived and why they did it
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the way they did um so that’s exactly what etiquette is teaching us about how we are all different based on our
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cultural religious and traditional background and um it really opens up your mind about everyone around you and
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and makes you think like the universe is not just around you around your culture your way is not the only way there are
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all different ways of living and so I always had that interest in Etiquette but I didn’t know it was etiquette per
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se it was only after I graduated my University I had you know when I was at
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George Washington University doing my international relations I took a workshop in Etiquette from Washington
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School of etiquette and that’s when I understood this is exactly what I would want to teach but I didn’t know up until
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you know I graduated and started working in aeran diplomatic Academy while I was teaching EU about EU European Union um I
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did a little bit of of little courses on etiquette like dining etiquette diplomatic protocol that’s when I
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realized that I truly enjoyed teaching this a lot more and I felt like all these young diplomats knew so much more
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about history about you know maybe uh sociology and law but they didn’t know
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much about how to behave in certain situations so they were academically
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very adapt but they were not really skilled in when it came to how do I behave how do I best present myself so I
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thought that there was a lot of need in training young people once they were graduated from school and high school
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and University they were academically ready to work but they weren’t really socially ready to work or to strive or
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or do the best they could so when I established my YouTube channel it’s what my tagline says that it’s education
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Beyond school so it’s education beyond what they teach in school so all these kind of soft skills that now we are only
4:59
now saying that it’s important to learn and educate kids about in school because when you graduate you are facing the
5:06
real world where it’s not just based on your GPA it’s not just based on your transcript it’s a lot about how you
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present yourself how do you behave at social events or business edette or diplomatic etiquette whatever it might
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be so etiquette is very much important and that’s exactly when I realized that I want to do etiquette more and also now
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having gone to an Etiquette School in London I realized how only privileged people had access to etiquette courses
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because usually these courses are very expensive because there are a limited number of trainers there are very little schools left now in today’s world and so
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these are were very much luxurious so to speak courses that only few people could afford um so uh though I do uh online
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and private classes and workshops that have a different price list I also offer pre-recorded online courses at a much
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more affordable price range as well as I do free teachings via it via YouTube
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where people from all over the world can access and have the basic understandings of etiquette so one of the things that
Generational shifts in etiquette
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just I was really intrigued by is do you see a the people you work with do you
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see a difference from a generational point of view in their etiquette meaning
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baby boomer older people compared to the the latest generation gen Z like give me
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a perspective on their inherent etiquette oh definitely I think again is
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really the way we start living it’s like a guide book of like the rules of living and so etiquette is not something
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archaic it’s not something old school because etiquette by itself also changes and evolves as you know everything
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around as the fashion changes you know historical narratives change social norms change so it starts to reflect the
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reality we live in and so uh a lot of my meet and greets that I’m hosting around the world and uh one of the ones that I
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had uh that had very different Generations the latest I had was in Abu Dhabi and they were as young as 17y olds
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and they were you know as old as 60y olds and so when you see this discrepancy in the way that they were
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they had this shared interest in Etiquette but they were still very different in terms of the way they um
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represented themselves they you know showed up to the world so to speak and the way they spoke and the way they
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handled themselves The Way They Carried themselves uh there’s definitely a lot of interest in my audience that is
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younger in learning all these manners but they weren’t really taught to them versus verus the older generation really
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had it infused in them so it was almost like a second nature to most of them and they were just there happy to see that
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etiquette is revived and people still care about good manners and all that but there’s definitely an attitude
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difference in terms of you know the older generation being more mindful about what to say how to say how to
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formulate my opinion or you know to speak up versus the younger generation
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which feel a lot more free in saying what they think with without thinking about how it can affect the person in
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front of them and I think it’s not just also generational difference but it’s very much cultural difference uh because
Cultural influences on etiquette
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I host this meet and greets across the world so I’ve had a lot in US I’ve had in in Dubai and Abu Dhabi um I’ve had in
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Italy so I do see how people like carry themselves differently based on the
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culture they’re coming from um so with Middle Eastern probably uh audience
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being more respectful towards the Elder being more reserved around the elders versus the Western ones being more open
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free um and you know not feeling shy from saying their opinion in front of Elders so there’s definitely difference
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in in age as well as cultural uh background do you see that you know the
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variation in the younger group across the different countries as much as you do the older uh you mean like across the
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culture like from different cultes there’s a yeah definitely um I think yeah there’s a lot of things that affect
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uh the way we present ourselves to the world it’s not just our age it’s not just our culture it’s our religious
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background um it’s the family or Community we were surrounded by you know
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we think that we are you know our this free people that we are who we are but really we’re a creature of everything we
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have absorbed over the years when we reach a certain age it’s then up to us to mold ourselves into something we want
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to see ourselves like so up until a certain age we really don’t have much influence on ourselves it’s a lot of
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what we are absorbing but then after a certain age we are able to then start figuring out what is it that I want to
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keep from my family from my culture for my religion and what is it that I want to change about myself so well let’s
How etiquette can make or break you
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talk about leadership me obviously that’s what this podcast is about I’m so excited because one I mentioned this
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earlier I would have not been able to really interact with you except for through this podcast and I think it’s so
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imperative like this idea of leadership and and often times you know we make
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mistakes so what mistakes do you see whether it’s in a diplomatic situation
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or one of your training classes that often you try to help people not make
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because that’s what leaders often make and they make a bad impression because of those mistakes you know it’s a good
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question Tyler and there’s a lot that I can cover there’s so many case studies that I’ve done for my classes as well as
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some of the reviews I’ve done um on my patreon channel of different you know moments from etiquette etiquette lessons
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we can learn from different movies where you know know certain episodes are analyzed and uh perhaps some of the
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biggest thing that I’m now thinking of that comes across my mind is U mixing different kind of Bing forms in one uh
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President Obama uh once when he was uh meeting I think that was a prime minister of Japan he went for a bow and
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he went for a handshake combined um so you don’t go for a bow and a handshake
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about is there because the Japanese people like to keep a distance so they don’t want to get person touching you so
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that’s why the bow exists in Bow the whole idea is that you don’t touch the other person you don’t keep the eye
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contact the your gaze is down on the floor and you bow the lowest if you want to show the biggest respect so the more
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you bow the more you’re showing the respect to the receiving person handshake is the complete opposite it’s
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about physical touch it’s about keeping a direct eye contact throughout the
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handshake so these are Polar Opposites ways of greeting and you can’t combine the two because they’re contradictory so
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if you want to show respect to other person’s culture you might go for the bow and show them you know I’m also bowing like you are or if you want to
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keep your way of greeting you can of course extend your handshake hand for handshake and I would say handshake has
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become a more Universal way of greeting it’s not just the Western world but now around the world people go for a
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handshake as sort of a standard way of greeting um there was recently GC Sumit
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uh in Italy I think and the prime minister of Italy she was receiving a the prime minister of India and as he
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walked in towards her he already put his hand in Namaste form and he so while
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walking up he showed to her that I’m going to only greet you like this I’m not going for handshake and she was
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mindful on that so she went immediately like that too so they just greeted each other with a namaste form so you
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wouldn’t do Namaste and then go for a handshake you have to keep this greeting forms um another thing that comes to my
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mind is the use of your left hand uh when it comes to so doing business in
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Middle East um again the reason the left hand is considered to be um your dirty
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hand is because uh for a lot of um hygiene purposes your left hand is
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supposed to be used according to Muslim like uh way of cleansing yourself so the
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left hand is meant for your dirty job in a way so anything that you pass through your left hand is offensive so if you
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pass your credit your sorry credit your business card through your left hand or if you if someone ask you can you please
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pass me a glass of water you would never pass it with your left hand you’d always place it in your right hand and pass it
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like that because the person receiving it might get offended again not everyone will get offended some might understand
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that you don’t know about the culture but it’s good if you want to create good relationship with a person representing
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the other culture you want to do your research and really do that um another thing that I often find um I guess
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offensive is something Americans do leisurely without an intention to offend anyone but you know placing your feet up
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up in a way that the SES of your shoes or your feet is pointing towards a guest
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or pointing towards you know a person you’re talking to you’re at an interview or you’re just seated next to each other and you have your feet all the way up
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pointing to them most cultures the Asian middle eastern Indian most cultures find
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it offensive the bottom of the shoes are considered dirty your feet are considered dirty so which is why you
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know when you walk into the mosque you take off your shoes you walk into a temple you take off your shoes so you
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know shoes are generally considered dirty but also the bottom of your soul of the feet is also considered something
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you wouldn’t expose to someone um so a lot of times I find Americans doing it
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leisurely without really thinking that it might offend someone but again if you’re doing a business with someone
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from Asia or someone from India and you have placed your feet like that casually um the other person might find it
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offensive so always keep your feet grounded on the floor in order to avoid uh this kind of misunderstanding a lot
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of the rules are also about hand gestures something that is okay in US means you know okay like this in us
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might mean some something very dirty and nasty and vulgar in other cultures totally so these things have to be you
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know taken into account I mean having traveled myself and lived in New Zealand been throughout the world it’s
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interesting because what you just mentioned there is you just don’t know and so help me you know and help the
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audience that’s listening and watching if you end up in that situation you make an error like President Obama where you
Recovering from etiquette mistakes
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go to Bow and then you’re like ah I’m not sure if I’m doing this right then you go to shake how do you recover from
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that I guess uh sometimes in this very difficult awkward situations the best
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way to avoid uh getting any kind of more more attention to yourself is just
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letting it slide because you know how in this world of like 30 seconds of fame um
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if if you let it slide it will be forgotten very soon by something else so usually I see most of the presidents try
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to avoid you know if they’ve done something wrong a foba how they say in French they try to just keep it Silent
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not give any comments about it and so the world will forget it anyways but I think it’s important I wouldn’t
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necessarily call this a mistake on Obama’s side I would say it’s a mistake on his protocol team or the team that
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has to inform him on certain cultural and religious like aspects so there should be a team in every political
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household uh where they can inform the president about what things could be done or couldn’t be done again it it’s
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not something that he did was offensive like I don’t think the Japanese PM was offended by this gesture but I just
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think he looked like he didn’t know what to do so it it made him look a bit ridiculous and you can see like a smile
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on Japanese PM’s face like man what are you doing like are youing or are you handshaking so it’s a bit but you know
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Japanese are very calm and composed and they will never show their true emotions so they wouldn’t like joke about it or
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make fun of it so the best way to an etiquette I always teach that the best
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way to kind of cover up your mistake is to not pay attention to it to let it
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slide if you happen to drop a fork or made a spill on your dress ignore it like it didn’t exist don’t make a fuss
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about it because you draw everyone’s attention to yourself and that particular stain or if someone else does
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it it’s also your duty to make it seem like you never noticed it that’s a highest level of good manners is when
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you can ignore someone’s mishap or someone’s for path yeah I the piece here
Body language in leadership
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as we talk about these different body language the the the Customs um you know
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really like what are some of the further like personal for example if I’m in a
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leadership position and from an etiquette point of view what do you recognize when you’re working with
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people or you’re watching video that they could actually enhance their standing based upon their body
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language so body language is huge part of etiquette because it’s the way we present ourselves the word to the world
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so even without saying something the way you walk up the stage can tell me a lot about how you feel about yourself and um
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we are all still animals at the end of the day no matter you know how developed we are and instinctually we can sense if
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someone is scared or if someone you know fills up the room and with body language
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and the not just in the like not just according to the human body but also in the animal world the more space you take
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up the more the slower are your movements the less rushed you feel or or
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give the vibe of a less rushed uh creature uh the more people perceive you
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as confident I always tell my students to be get comfortable with silence get
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comfortable with taking your time to do anything if you’re called up on a stage
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if if you walk up rushed you know and if you’re like talking a lot blah blah blah blah blah you will never make an
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impression of someone who knows what they’re talking about who is confident so confidence comes mostly through our
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body and through the way we project you know or present ourselves the world so the key is to take your time if you’re
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called up to somewhere if you have to respond to something you take your time and you get comfortable with taking the
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time and you get comfortable with being silent so I for most of my clients have
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struggled a lot with being able to answer engage into a small talk without
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blabbering too much because either they get too nervous and start telling oversharing or they get too excited and
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start blabbering and then they’re like oh I wish I never told that and I say think first in your mind what you’re
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going to say and then narrow it down even more so if you want to say four things just say two you will never
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regret things you didn’t say but you’ll always always regret over talking we never think of someone who
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over talks as being confident but when you don’t speak a lot when you say
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less every word has more weight to to you you know one of the I think one of
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the most brilliant men in in business is uh the head of um lvmh so this french
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guy who bought possibly every luxury brand if you ever listen to his
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interviews you will see how he doesn’t talk much at all he says very little
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very little he gives very little information but because of that everything that he says becomes almost
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like a quote because he doesn’t talk too much um so I think the key here is to
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really get comfortable with uh with um time with not being rushed and also uh
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with the body language when we are rushed or when we feel like we are in a
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Hur somewhere it means that we don’t have the luxury to en to enjoy our time
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and it’s usually we consider people that are relaxed that they have you know the
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Liberty to not rush the time because time is not money for them because you know they have enough money to not rush
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so it’s usually something we associate with with wealth with confidence with
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success um and you know we live in a world where people make their snap decisions based on like two seconds of
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seeing you know all this Tinder social media someone walks into your Instagram they see a picture two three posts and
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they’re like okay I’m following it or I’m not following it and most of this impression is based on the way we
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present ourselves without saying something and all of that is body language all of that is how we present
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ourselves so let me talk about this the difference and I imagine you through your courses you train the difference
21:23
between men and women and we just talked a little bit about how you walk on stage there is the you know the bigger you
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seem the slower you seem the more at ease kind of that confidence you know many times women I know this about my
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daughter my wife they’re cold and so they you know they kind of put their arms together they shrink down what is
Presenting confidence through body language
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that telling someone or what are you giving advice to women as they’re sitting in a room they’re sitting in
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situations how to present themselves best you know it’s a good question Tyler because I think uh because people
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nowadays only get a snap of information like they see a little video on Tik Tok or an Instagram a real that says if you
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have your arms crossed you’re not going to look confident and that’s all they know about you know the little tips that they’re getting but when you are looking
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at body language you have to look at the whole context about it you know maybe
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someone is cold that’s why they’re keeping their arms closed you cannot just look at one body movement and say
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okay this is this like this is insecurity if the room is C cold I get cold a lot often and I tend to do like
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that too but everything else about me the way I’m H I’m standing my posture
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the where I’m kinging my chin parallel to the ground the way I’m gazing into someone’s eye if it’s culturally
22:38
appropriate the way I’m placing my feet together everything else about me says
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confidence the only thing that I have is my hands wrapped around myself I actually recently had a hand injury so I
22:49
was in a retainer for a really long time and now that I’ve taking out the retainer I still have to somewhat hold
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up my hand like that because I can’t keep it loose like that for a long time so even now on my way to in us when I
23:01
was doing podcasts from time to time I would hold up to my hands that doesn’t mean that people would immediately
23:07
interpreted as something that I look not confident enough because everything else about me would say I look confident so
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we have to look at this cues in terms of the whole picture not just one thing you know someone might be about someone
23:20
might have this allergy and they’re about to Snee so they’re always going to touch their nose it’s not it doesn’t
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mean they’re lying it doesn’t mean you know they just told a lot it just means they just sneezed or they’re about to
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sneeze so you have to look at the bigger picture and not just focus on one little thing uh and I guarantee you when you
23:38
start observing a person wholesome from top to down you will be able to make a
23:44
much better understanding of what their body is telling you and to answer your question how they can look more
23:50
confident is the biggest giveaway about your confidence is your posture you
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might be doing whatever you want to do with your hands but the biggest message that you’re sending to the world is by
24:01
the way you stand and in order to have a good posture you have to be mindful of your posture if you haven’t built up a
24:08
good back muscles that can support your your back I would say get into sports start training your back or be conscious
24:15
of the way you sit and try to always correct yourself I am a person that you know when I’m at home I’ll be relaxed
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and I obviously wouldn’t sit upright you know like any other human being but I have something professional that like a
24:28
light bulb that goes in as soon as I step into a room or as soon as I’m about to enter an auditorium I have a very
24:34
good posture it’s something that I’ve trained to do so I’ll come back home super relax but if I’m stepping out I
24:40
always have a right posture because that is telling so much more about you than any other part of your body so is that
24:47
you know like throwing your shoulders back pulling your shoulder blades together being more
24:52
upright I’ll tell you A lot of people think that it’s just throwing your shoulder back but sometimes back just
24:59
means they’re rolled back and they’re kept upright almost close to your ear so this creates like a smaller space in
25:05
between your ears and your neck and you look like a turtle you know who’s about to cover like cover the face so the
25:12
trick is to roll up back and drop so your shoulder blades are almost like
25:19
inward but not completely squeezed in because then you look like you’re like trying too hard and then once your R
25:25
your shoulders are relaxed roll back and dropped backwards it’s also very important to think of your head because
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head is also part of your posture it’s not just your shoulders so if you have uh upright posture but your head is like
25:38
down or your chin is down obviously it’s not going to give a good impression your chin has to be parallel to the ground
25:45
and then your gaze has to be upright so um even when women walk down or walk up
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they don’t have to look at their feet or men as well you can look at your where your feet is stepping but then always
25:56
lift your gaze up because if if you walk like looking down all the time for example you’re walking up the stage and
26:02
looking onto your feet you’re never going to make a good you know confident impression well you’re not making eye
Walking with confidence
26:08
contact right you’re not making eye contact you’re not facing the world with your eyes you’re like in the moment
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trying to make sure that you walk up you know how you know old people when they can’t see the road they’ll look straight
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into their feet trying to make but all you have to do is look it’s like driving a car you look at the road like maybe in
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the front to the side and then you look all the way straight so you’re facing the world in a way um and it’s important
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to remember that your head is the continuation of your spine so your head should be aligned with your spine um I
26:40
would say like think of like a helium like balloon up your head almost like you’re you know like like I don’t know
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held upright like that with a balloon that’s like hanging on like or like pulling you all the way up so your spine
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your neck and your head are aligned all together um that is important and also
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the way you walk is important uh again for men and women both doesn’t matter you have to take time with walking up or
27:07
entering the room or walking up the stage take your time take confident
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strides don’t do really long ones or very short ones but at the same time
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make sure that they are kind of equidistant so it’s not like one is longer another is shorter so your step
27:25
has to be so everything about you it’s it’s almost like if you’re watching like about an animal world and
27:32
there’s like this really confident Jaguar walking you know there’s this
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like the strides are very equidistant and they’re very paced at the same pace
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so that really gives this Aura of confidence and Charisma so before we
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translate I want to kind of one last thought that’s coming in my mind for women is you know sometimes you can take
27:54
a too big of a step right where that just kind of looks like it’s most like I
27:59
don’t know you know what you just said equidistant where it’s the proper amount where sometimes you take really really
28:05
short steps imagine if you’re like I’ve seen this happen really high heels and it’s icy and you’re like uh oh I don’t
28:11
want to slip like how do you help and Coach you know leaders how do you help people through that because it makes a
28:18
massive impression on others practice Tyler like anything else
28:23
practice I make my clients practice with me so the the importance of taking the
28:29
walking is like anything else you do like writing your right or reading your read the the more you do it the more you
28:35
do it on Heels the more you do it with heels with the right posture the better you become and in terms of the the the
28:42
length of your St or or how you should take take it I’ve done a video on it on like on YouTube which is probably one of
28:48
my most viewed videos about how to you know deportment how to walk how to stand how to sit and important here is imagine
28:56
a straight line and walking in a state r with step Inward and then another step inward for
29:02
women especially in heels so you walk in one imaginary line and your step should
29:08
be just just to the same space as your feet would be okay so it would be like a
29:14
step in a distance of your feet so if you have a larger feet obviously it will be a larger stride if you have smaller
29:21
feet of course it’s going to be proportional to your your height and your your feet so it also depends if
29:29
you’re wearing ballet flats or if you’re wearing you know male shoes if you’re wearing like uh heels because that will
29:35
really affect the way you walk and uh for most of my clients I always say if this is the first time you’re wearing
29:41
heels opt for you know smaller block heels you don’t need to wear this really
29:46
tall heels and walk like you’re a little like a bird you know trying to you know avoid an icy floor or like walking like
29:53
sliding because you would rather walk in ballet flats but confid confident rather than on heels and looking like you’re
30:00
stomping your way through so start on smaller heel a block heel a platform
30:06
whatever it would be learn how to manage your height and then you can you know start choosing something higher or
30:13
thinner heel something that’s more difficult to manage so let’s transition to men because I would say equally as
Avoiding overconfidence in leadership
30:20
much men you know have the opportunity either you know it’s almost like I think about this men are probably there’s as
30:26
much insecurity that shows kind of that hunched over shoulders maybe you know rolled forward you know chinned forward
30:33
but then there’s well there’s the person that’s trying to exude like the over amount of confidence they’re really
30:38
chest puffed out their you know chin almost is up in the air like give me some of the cues on those things and
30:45
what those things mean but also like how you advise your clients and how you really uh recommend people stand and
30:52
carry themselves so I I think well not just I think but uh puffed up should and
30:58
like uh chin all way all the way up to the to the to the sky actually is the
31:04
false like over trying to look confident is when you’re actually not confident and you’re really trying hard to look
31:10
confident those are the cues that I look at and I’m like okay I know you’re not confident but you’re really trying to
31:15
look like one because a confident person will never try to their confidence is so
31:21
subtle that you can feel it you don’t see it um how do I put it best it’s like
31:26
when you know when you it’s an energy that you feel it’s not necessarily like this written down book rules that make
31:35
one see it so if you can see it like they’re trying too hard then they’re not really feeling that way and uh you have
31:42
to practice it until it becomes your second skin uh walking in a good posture having a chin again it’s the same for
31:49
men and women having chin parallel to the ground keeping a direct eye contact you know making sure that your shoulders
31:55
are rolled but like left like rolled up and then dropped down that your neck is very relaxed because that shows that you
32:02
are not threatened by anything or anyone um again your body movements and your
32:08
head movements are not drastic you’re not trying to like manage everyone and try to make sure that everyone sees that
32:14
you feel confident um again with a lot of the confidence comes this really if
32:20
you watch a lot of videos of like CEOs and like you know heads of state you’ll see how most the more confident they
32:27
feel the more relaxed is their pace of walk of the way they stand up sit so
32:33
that is something we associate with confidence and um you can learn to to
32:39
walk the walk you can learn it but you really have to internalize it as the point that it becomes a second nature
32:45
and then you don’t really have to think much about it and you’re doing it and instead of just showing it you’re also
32:52
feeling it and so people can sense how you feel um I always tell all my clients
32:58
to think of other people just as equals when you can imagine that someone else is also having the same issues as you
33:05
are you know they’re also snoring they also use the bathroom I always go to like really ugly images but I’m like
33:10
just imagine this person’s also snoring there’s like they also have like you know problems at home they have issues
33:16
with the woman they love or like they have you know they’re just you know they have their preferences in food so
33:22
they’re just like another human being just because they have a certain amount in their bank account just because they
33:27
have a certain title doesn’t make them any less human than they are like you so
33:34
that’s what I I’ve always told myself when I walk into an auditorium with people that are in higher you know diplomatic ranks or people that are
33:41
representatives of a royal family and I’m teaching a course I always think to myself they’re just human beings you
33:49
know so they feel everything I’m feeling and so I don’t have to make them in my
33:54
mind any bigger than they are you know just like everyone else and so when I walk into a room with the same mentality
34:00
I treat them like I would treat anyone else and I always tell my clients the same when they are dealing with a VIP
34:07
client or with someone that you know they’re trying to make a deal with I’m like think of them as another human being you know if they didn’t have a
34:13
title they didn’t have a bank account you wouldn’t be treating them in any special way and that’s actually when they start you know shifting this
34:20
mentality that’s when they actually tone down in their body and they’re like okay like I’m relaxed and that’s when the
34:26
deals go the best when they don’t try to overdo their confidence or overdo their
34:31
Charisma you know for me and and a lot that I believe is a lot of that false
34:37
sense that we’re trying to impress comes from insecurity and what you’ve just said I think is is perfect I often tell
34:43
people that like hey you got up you and I both get up and pee in the middle of the night it happens it is normal and
34:50
the more that we can Embrace that and understand our own the more that we can externally show to people that I’m
34:58
either that confidence that true genuine authenticity and one of the things that you said there that I think shows up so
35:04
much is etiquette does not cover that up etiquette makes that come forward and
35:10
really be displayed would you agree with that or is that absolutely absolutely I
35:15
think that’s the essence of of what I’m teaching is definitely trying to shed
35:20
some light into it for sure yeah so let’s move into dress I know you do a
Dressing for success
35:25
lot through your Instagram through your you as well what you dress it’s meaningful
35:30
whether it’s it’s relaxed whether it’s formal whether it’s traditional give me just kind of some you know some cues
35:37
there for people to really consider like I had a friend recently uh she was presenting at a an event and she chose
35:45
to wear jeans partly because she was comfortable they were dressed they were proper they they weren’t you know holes
35:50
or whatever else and it was interesting how some people you know perceive that so I want you to just kind of give us
35:57
some some context there oh dressing up for me is very very important it’s a
36:03
it’s a huge part of Personal Image it’s a huge part of the way we present ourselves the world because at the end
36:09
of the day personal style is how you feel and how you want the world to perceive you it’s like um it’s like a if
36:16
we think of a gift it’s like a wrapping of the gift how do we want to wrap ourselves and present ourselves to
36:21
others um so I’m not all about like uh dress just to impress but it’s also
36:28
dressed to to feel a certain way so it’s not just about others it’s really about
36:33
creating a certain amount of feeling inside of you um you know there’s this really famous etiquette quote that
36:39
always says dress for the job that you don’t dress for the job that you have
36:44
but dress for the job that you want so and there is a key uh meaning behind it
36:49
is that you’re going for a job interview or dressing up at work when you dress up like you were to be the CEO or you were
36:57
to be like the manager you obviously will start feeling a certain way about
37:03
yourself you’ll start feeling a certain amount of emotions inside of you I always compare it to like why do we have
37:09
all these action hero movies where as soon as they put their Superman you know costume on or they as soon as they put
37:15
their mask on all of a sudden a regular guy becomes Invincible um there’s this
37:21
you know magical element in the costume that makes you feel he doesn’t change it’s not like the costume you know gives
37:27
seem a certain it’s just the the power that he thinks the costume has over him um so I think the same applies to our as
37:34
life as well it’s a certain mindset that the clothes creates uh for us it’s one
37:40
of the probably the reasons why people you know love to buy luxury products not because you know they’re in any way a
37:46
much better quality than maybe a mass Market product yes of course there’s difference in terms of maybe durability
37:53
and some you know materials but there is this sense that you start feeling when you start you know dressing yourself a
37:59
certain way and affording luxury goods it’s the mindset that is created with that and so with that being said I do
38:05
think that you have to be when you’re dressing up there are a couple of things that you have to take into account is
38:12
you have to make sure that the whatever you’re wearing is actually fitting you there’s nothing worse than wearing
38:18
something that it might be luxury it might be super expensive but it’s not fitting your body or if it’s not you
38:24
know jeans that are super tight on you if you like sit down there about to like rip or if there’s a shirt like super
38:30
amazing shirt I I see most men do that they wear a button- down shirt and they become bigger and then you know these
38:37
white spaces open in between the buttons because they’ve become bigger than they were when they bought the shirt so when
38:44
the clothes is not fitting well when the clothes is you know not ironed well maybe has stains on it maybe is
38:50
overwashed is something you have to get rid of from your wardrobe because it like it doesn’t matter matter
38:57
what the price tag of your item is even if it’s the most expensive thing if it has stains on it if it’s like over if
39:04
it’s not if it’s wrinkled if it’s like has this little like creases here and there it’s not going to make good
39:10
impression um another thing for me that is important in dressing up is making sure that you’re appropriate appropriate
39:17
for everything appropriate for the time appropriate for the occasion appropriate for the culture that you are maybe
39:24
finding yourself in appropriate for the time of the year so I would see people in US wearing
39:30
flipflops in Winter that would like make me really surprised or I would see
39:36
people you know wear something that is for the beach to the to the lecture hold or you know pajamas they’ come to school
39:43
in pajamas to a lecture where the professor was in a suit and tie so for me you know with the friend of yours
39:49
that’s wearing jeans I don’t know what the formality of the event was I don’t know what how the people in that event
39:56
were dressed up but imagine you’re a speaker and you walk in the jeans and then your audience is all you know
40:02
business formal so you want to look hierarchically you want to look dressed
40:09
up equally at least or if not more because you’re a guest speaker also one
40:14
of the biggest things that I have come across traveling a lot for work but also
40:19
having a lot of people arrive to aeran as guest speakers sometimes they dress up inappropriate for the culture I’m
40:26
always very mindful about that the colors that I choose the things that I opt to wear if a culture is very modest
40:32
I will never opt for something that is you know transparent super short or anything like that um we once had
40:39
actually an etiquette trainer that came from Russia to aeran she was giving a lecture so she was in front of a screen
40:46
in a huge Auditorium she’s a very respected woman like an older lady that’s like very well knowledg in Etiquette but she wore a um a jacket and
40:55
then she wore this very beautiful Dior skirt that was transparent so she had
41:00
like little shorts underneath and then she had this like big skirt that in a
41:07
daylight or maybe in a regular light would not be seethrough but she was standing in front of a screen and the
41:14
projector was projecting on her and you know aeran is predominantly a Muslim
41:19
country we’re not very religious but still we very much mentality is very much influ infused by modesty and
41:25
especially for a lecture so I thought that it was a big mishap on
41:31
her part or maybe her team had to warn her that she were to stand in front of a projector because maybe if she were in a
41:38
stage that was darker and there was just dim light on her we wouldn’t notice anything but here she was standing
41:44
pretty much in an underwear with a skirt that was transparent and I think that
41:50
already created a little bit of confusion in the audience so maybe they would take her a bit more serious if she
41:56
were something else there was already some like gossiping happening in an auditorium as to like what is she
42:01
wearing like she’s talking about etiquette and this is what she’s wearing so it undermined her credibility in the
42:07
audience for sure just because she didn’t chose the right skirt and I think that’s the you know that point is
Overdressing vs. Underdressing
42:14
understanding our dress doesn’t necessarily Define who we are but it can possibly undermine and I think that is
42:21
you know it’s kind of dress appropriately I almost wonder you know you mentioned this is don’t dress under
42:27
what others but I also believe there’s sometimes where you overdress and you’re trying too hard and you’re kind of that
42:33
all of a sudden I think that you lose some connection some ability to just relate to whoever you’re speaking with
42:40
because you’re overdoing it absolutely I agree with that Tyler but I also think it depends on a culture you know in
42:46
Middle East when you go to Middle East I always tell my clients if someone tells you casual it doesn’t mean casual
42:52
overdress yeah casual for them is like Ultra FAL for you so but when in US you
42:58
come to even the way people dress on a daily basis in Middle East in Asia people dress up daily in the US people
43:05
dress down and usually they only dress up for certain occasions so I would say it depends very much on the culture so
43:11
for an American traveling to Middle East I would say overdress for your own standards but for a person coming from
43:16
Middle East to us I would say like under underdress because you’ll be looking like you’re going to a wedding when
43:22
everyone else is just in their jeans and t-shirt you know like I also also think that it depends on on the on it’s not
43:30
just about what we’re wearing but also how we’re wearing it uh so you might
43:36
again you might be dressed in the best outfit of the day of the like with the with the most iconic dress on you but if
43:43
you can’t carry it so it’s the you’re like a hanger instead of actually the
43:49
person that is wearing a dress so you don’t have to be the hanger for your dress you have to also feel it and
43:54
present yourself in the best lie I always tell my clients that if you don’t feel comfortable wearing a dress opt for
44:01
a pants pants suit you know um you don’t have to necessarily wear a dress to feel
44:07
confident or good you can optimize it to something that you naturally feel confident in so I’m not trying to you
44:14
know make everyone wear the same style or M wear the same kind of clothes I always say when they ask me what would
44:20
you advise me to wear to look more confident beautiful or elegant I say Elegance comes in every shape in form
44:27
it’s about the energy you feel if you don’t feel confident and comfortable and elegant in a dress you will never exud
44:33
that energy so if maybe pants make you feel more elegant wear pants with a night nice blouse and if that’s your
44:40
style then you can rock it and so for each their own but I would always say that you know again as I mentioned
44:47
earlier everything that we the way we present ourselves is not just through our body language but also what we wear
44:54
and a lot of the impression that people make of us is within couple of seconds and so clothes is also a huge part of
45:00
unfortunately maybe of making that impression I mean I I think that is a
45:05
you know a great point that I heard there is um the clothes won’t make you
45:12
but they can you know accentuate who you are and so if you’re not comfortable in it if it doesn’t allow you I wear black
45:18
shirts because I get sweaty pits so in other words if I’m wearing gray then it doesn’t work and so it’s a simple choice
45:25
but yet understanding that I was talking knew a friend last week who had been speaking and he was wearing gray and he
45:30
got hot and it just it made him uncomfortable and it’s like yes that’s where you wear certain items so that way
45:37
you understand who you are what you are that it brings out the best in you and that you’re not self-conscious because
45:44
that self-consciousness probably degrades your overall confidence absolutely and you know what
45:51
I also think it depends on the industry you’re in so I always tell my clients like you you know if you are someone in
45:56
it and someone is like like entrepreneur depends depends on the kind of industry and Technology you know they always talk
46:03
about Steve Jobs and he’s black turtle necks and jeans and how he was always relaxed and I was like yeah because he was promoting a a product not himself I
Teaching etiquette to the next generation
46:11
was going to ask about your kids so that is a perfect segue how do you encourage
46:17
your kids with etiquette how do you Embrace that uh Tyler actually I don’t
46:23
I’ll be guilty of saying that I don’t teach my kids etiquette per I’ll explain you uh I think it’s more
46:30
about how I live rather than what I teach them that is going to affect them in the longer run I always say I’m not
46:36
the I’m not the bench Mom I’m a field mom so I don’t just sit and teach them
46:42
this is how you do it that’s how you do it I actually go in with them and try to teach them and do things with them so
46:48
they get to learn um and when people approach me about teaching etiquette to younger children I say well how about
46:54
you come join my courses first I’ll teach you and then you’ll teach your child at home because up to a certain
47:00
point there’s no point of teaching in terms of just saying you have to do things I do things a certain way at home
47:07
and I see how they’re picking it up the way I talk to people around me the way I hold myself the way I dress up the way
47:13
I’m all about you know hygiene and grooming so I am living etiquette and
47:19
I’m showing it to my kids through an example and after all their kids you know they want to have that freedom and
47:25
I don’t want to put them into the special boxes that this is only how you eat I always tell all on YouTube as well
47:31
I’m always honest about it I’ll say my kids are just like everyone else’s kid you know they’re not like just because
47:37
they’re kids of an etiquette instructor that doesn’t mean we live a certain way in any way different than anyone else
47:44
but um I am teaching my kids certain values and certain norms and certain
47:50
ways of doing things through an example maybe they’ll take it in 2 years maybe they’ll pick it up in four years but I’m
47:56
sure when they’re older enough to make those decisions they’ll remember how things were done at home with Mom and we
48:03
start you know infusing into our own lives most of the things again that we pick up are picked up subconsciously and
48:09
it’s a pattern a habit that was formed over the years um so my kids are just like regular kids um except for the
48:16
things that I’m trying to infiltrate by being an example to them I mean I I love
48:21
that and I I love that your son jumped in there to say hi because I I think that’s a a perfect way to wrap this up
48:28
is no matter what you say what you do if you’re not living it those around you
48:34
aren’t going to reciprocate or aren’t going to believe it I think main reason why I have I’ve been able to grow a
48:41
really big audience very soon on YouTube is because I have always been very honest in my teachings and very honest
48:47
with my q&as as well I want people to understand that you can be you know an etiquette instructor that you can be all
48:53
about etiquette but you are also human you know you can also or like there were also stereotypes about etiquette
48:59
trainers that they dress a certain way that they carry themselves a certain way and I’m trying to break that stereotype
49:04
that look I’m just another regular woman from aeran I love to wear short dresses I love to you know look casual and maybe
49:12
have like slippers on or anything but that doesn’t make me any less mannered or any less elegant than you know
49:18
someone who were to wear just pearls and like a a simple black dress and I’m also
49:24
saying you know you can be really well-mannered but you don’t have have to be very strict with your kids and trying to put them into this really strict
49:30
boxes so I guess I’m being honest and people can pull the energy and that’s what people are buying usually the
49:36
energy well I love it