deep dive based on the script, make detailed notes covering all the points ----- 
53:55
they should do because we don't know how they're going to learn what they need to learn in this
54:01
life and they have a right to be autonomous and Sovereign and we must
54:07
respect that right rather than our fear of them making a mistake drives us to tell them what to do and it's not loving
54:15
that's about you that's compulsive right I mean listen there is love there but it's more about wanting
54:22
to fix the problem and people don't like to be managed Le no nobody likes to feel like a project it feels bad to be
54:31
manipulated and controlled by someone else so that's one right is auto advice
54:36
giving um Auto accommodating same thing why should we not do this because we
54:42
will eventually become resentful in our relationships if we're always the one Auto accommodating the other person if
54:49
we're like oh I don't care I'm <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON> no fuss no mus whatever you want is great eventually that's going to be
54:56
oh unless it's true for you but what I find with my therapy clients most of the time the ones that are like that they just
55:02
don't want any problems they don't want any conflict even a conflict that I want
55:07
pizza and you want Japanese food is too much they're like I'm not even risking that I'm just going to eat whatever they
55:12
want to eat I'm just going to do whatever they want to do especially if you're in a toxic relationship and they
55:18
have a tendency to blow up or have these you know heightened emotional responses
55:23
I can see that being um even more Al in that dynamic because the last thing you
55:28
want is for something to get out of place um you know like if something's wrong or if the food isn't right like
55:35
you're always trying to fix things so that it don't explode absolutely you also are over functioning you're
55:41
overgiving right we're doing things for other people that they can and should be doing
55:48
for themselves and this has to do with parents and children adult children and
55:54
parents where you have some who are like paying some of rent and they're 35 you're like that's too old that's too
56:01
old and and what the parent is saying to the 35-year-old who's rent they're paying is I don't think you can do it
56:07
the kid says I'm afraid I can't do it and the parent who is overfunctioning for them and continues to infantilize
56:12
them is basically the message they're giving even if they don't mean to is I agree with you you think you're a loser
56:18
and I agree with you and so does a lot of our high functioning Tendencies come
56:24
from childhood that we've learned from our parents yes yes it's a combination of things so you have your your
56:30
blueprint the relational blueprint I think that we were talking about before we look at what did we witness did you
56:36
have a maternal figure that was a people pleaser that was doing everything for everyone that the woman we were talking
56:43
about with the sauce it wasn't just with Michael she was that way she also wor volunteered at the rectory three times a
56:49
week and she also did food shopping for the guy next door and she also like there were so many things this lady was doing again a lot of it high functioning
56:58
codependency stuff taking responsibility for things that were not hers there's a
57:03
tendency to be endlessly judging because there's an illusion of control that comes from this Behavior there's two
57:10
things that I've seen that I think are really devastating for being an hfc one
57:16
is that when we're constantly hyper dialed into our surroundings to make sure there's no problems to make sure
57:22
we're going the right way are you making the left up there you're like the backseat driver all the things I we we
57:28
are experiencing what I call Life Light meaning it doesn't hit the same when
57:34
you're so preoccupied here you're not experiencing life in the same way and
57:42
it's really difficult to have really um satisfying Intimate Relationships when
57:47
you're so hyperd into your surroundings so that's one and the second is this
57:54
there there is this ation you know being overly responsible for everything is very
58:02
lonely right it's like when we don't allow other people to add value to our
58:08
lives there can be an existential crisis that comes from that experience
58:15
where you just feel like nobody knows you and a lot of the times it's because
58:21
they don't right because we're so busy knowing them we're so busy fixing for
58:26
them we're so busy accommodating I'm not saying this from a victim point of view
Codependency limits success
58:31
right because nobody is asking us to do this this is learned behavior so the
58:38
good news is you can unlearn it and you can do something different but there's a
58:45
glass ceiling of our own making that comes when you are an active a high
58:50
functioning codependent because there's only so much bandwidth you have in life so you're
58:56
only going to be so happy you're only going to be so successful business-wise you're only going to be so successful
59:02
romantically because you can't possibly be bleeding the amount of Life Force
59:07
energy and bandwidth that you bleed as an active hfc and climb those Heights that you want to
59:14
climb so this is really urgent that people get into recovery from this and
59:20
look at it as an opportunity not as like something's wrong with you um talk to me
59:25
about um the validation piece cuz as you're talking I really think about how being a
59:31
high function codependent you get a lot of validation I think out of helping other people right you get the
59:36
validation from people saying thank you from people telling other people oh my god did you see what Lisa did like I feel good about myself as somebody who
59:43
always felt um not confident was bullied as a kid when someone says thank you and
59:49
looks at me with a bit of idealization it makes me feel so good because I never had it and so that wound that poor Lisa
59:57
that was in her early teenage years that never felt good about herself gets tremendous beautiful validation from
1:00:03
people saying thank you and for people saying oh my God you really helped me but that then turns into utter freaking
1:00:10
burnout for me so I think that part of the letting go of that now forces me to
1:00:18
look at where I get my validation from how do you advise someone to work through that and I'm just asking for a
1:00:24
friend of course you are okay so this is where we have to
1:00:31
work on ourselves starting with knowing that what you want what you think and
1:00:38
how you feel matters and to be really healthy and in
1:00:43
recovery that has to matter to you more than what anyone else in the world wants
1:00:51
thinks or feels it is loving to take care of our
1:00:56
own needs so we're not bleeding all over the people in our lives right you you're
1:01:02
not bleeding on the people who didn't cut you as they say right when we take care of our own needs when we love
1:01:09
ourselves in a real way when we're able to approve of ourselves and sometimes
1:01:15
that means we need to change something right you know when people talk about our authentic selves and they love to
1:01:21
act like it's a magic Tootsie Pop That in the middle is the authentic person amazing like I just all I had to do is
1:01:26
wait a minute and get there that I never I never identify with that as a therapist I feel like we have an
1:01:34
authentic nature but we have the power as humans to build and create our
1:01:40
authentic self to decide who am I going to be in this world how am I going to be in the face of trouble problems how
1:01:48
resilient am I am I loyal am I dishonest am I am I someone I can look in the
1:01:54
mirror and feel feel proud of those are choices on a daily basis our validation
1:02:01
needs to come from am I living a life that I want to validate am I being a human being that I can validate because
1:02:09
I'm decent and I'm good and I'm kind and I'm honest so the self validation
1:02:14
there's two pieces to it it's being healthy enough to be able to take care
1:02:19
of your own needs but it's also living a life that you are proud of being a
1:02:27
person in the world that you are proud of it's much easier to validate ourselves when we're doing that now what
1:02:34
do we do when we make a mistake this is where our over affect you know our our overly um blown up super ego or like our
1:02:44
sense our punitive ah making ourselves feel bad could come into play and when you really love yourself you realize
1:02:52
it's okay to make mistakes you make a mistake and then you talk to yourself the way you would your puppy or a
1:02:58
5-year-old kid that you love instead of having that inner mean committee that's
1:03:04
like verbally assassinating you you go you know what babe it's a long day you
1:03:09
made a mistake it's okay you're human let's learn something let's move on so
1:03:15
this is how we have a relationship with ourselves that makes it easier to validate ourselves is because we don't
1:03:21
expect ourselves to be perfect and we're not we're not going to be but you can work to be a good
1:03:29
person right you can work to do the right thing in the world even if every
1:03:34
other mother effort is not you can be the different one and do the right thing and that makes it much easier to
1:03:40
validate yourself this is hitting me really hard recently I you know I've
1:03:45
been dealing with a lot of health health issues so I'm going through per menopause my hair's falling out I'm
1:03:51
constantly tired forgetful words are dropping out of my head I mean like the whole shebang and um and so it has
1:03:58
forced me to put my health first yes where normally I don't and recently
1:04:04
someone reached out to me I hadn't spoken to them in over 10 years they actually texted me once that's a lie
1:04:09
they texted me once in 10 years cuz I went back you know you can just look at the text chain and it says in 2020 they text you this they reached out and they
1:04:17
were like hey Lisa so I've left my job and I built my own business and can you check out my business
1:04:24
proposal and once upon a time I would have been like well it's a woman I know
1:04:29
her know her I haven't spoken to her in 10 years but my internal dialogue the
1:04:34
high functioning codependent the person that's looking for that validation it's like oh my God Lisa is a girl's girl
1:04:40
yeah I normally would have said yes and in this moment where she text me I was like okay I haven't spoken to her in
1:04:46
four years that was one text before that it was six years and I was like I really
1:04:53
want to help her but I said that my health priority yes all right yeah [ __ ] I can't
1:04:58
help her correct and in that moment it was really hard for me to come to that
1:05:03
conclusion but I was so proud of myself so going back to I didn't actually even realize that I did it but I wanted
1:05:10
normally I would have got validation and being the person that said yes to help her but now actually I built my validation in saying you did the right
1:05:17
you made the right decision because it was hard to make and you still put your health first yes and here's the thing
1:05:24
you can also then put it down right instead of carrying all this
1:05:29
crap around like little Sherpas you said no and you put it down you don't owe
1:05:36
that lady anything and you do owe Lisa something which is to be top Priority
1:05:44
Health rest expansion healing that's what you owe
1:05:50
yourself and the the shift in you and the growth in you is so obvious because
1:05:55
because you're able to prioritize your preference your desires your limits and
1:06:01
your deal breakers and that's exactly what you did in that situation thanks myel Terry for teaching me um okay so
1:06:07
that was a lot about guilt so actually let's now talk about shame y there's different ways that shame exists in us
1:06:14
and why we have it a lot of it is childhood stuff that creates more of a chronic shame right and then there are
1:06:21
things that we could do in adult life that make us feel ashamed but it's different than walking around with a lot
1:06:28
of Shame feeling you know guilt says I did something wrong shame says I am
1:06:34
wrong something is monumentally broken about me and they're very different
1:06:42
things and with ber Brown's work we're very aware that how does shame Thrive
1:06:49
secrecy silence right we just don't we don't talk about it we don't share it
1:06:54
with other people we think that we're less than we're so afraid to be rejected that we don't we don't let anyone know
Combating shame and recovering
1:07:01
so how do we combat shame talk get into therapy talk to a
1:07:08
friend because everything that we experience in our lives if we process it if we talk about it if we acknowledge it
1:07:16
we are weaving these experiences into the beautiful and unique tapestry of our
1:07:21
oneof a-kind life but we can be be stuck
1:07:27
in shame so one of the first things we want to think about if you're feeling ashamed if you're if something goes
1:07:33
wrong and you immediately blame yourself and you immediately feel like it's you if you see yourself getting small around
1:07:38
other people if you're so afraid to be seen then you know you've got shame work
1:07:45
to do and that requires journaling about it writing about it when did you first
1:07:51
feel this way who are you responding to in that way who did they remind you of
1:07:56
right because we can get to these original injuries that created the shame and that's what needs our attention you
1:08:03
are not responsible for what happened in your childhood you were a child so if something terrible happened to you
1:08:10
that's not on you that isn't about you and the little
1:08:15
kid in you needs you to help them heal from that experience but you're not bad
1:08:22
because something bad happened to you it's just something that happened to you
1:08:28
all we care about is you and how healing these original injuries is going to make
1:08:33
your life so much more joyful and expansive and harmonious and
1:08:39
beautiful that was really beautifully and well said and a lot of the questions
1:08:44
that I asked is definitely selfishness behind it where I want to learn myself and so I'm just going to be obviously very transparent and when I was reading
1:08:50
your book I'm I always take it in right like okay how does this apply to me does this rep to me what am I trying to fix
1:08:57
what resonates and the part about um being a high functioning codependent and
1:09:03
where does it come from you said it earlier who does this remind you of and where does it come from it made me start
1:09:08
to think about how my dad who I love more than life itself he was a beautiful
1:09:16
caring father he still is like I still sit on his lap like I'm Daddy's girl so
1:09:22
paint the picture I [ __ ] love my dad but as I'm reading your book and it's saying why are you high functioning what
1:09:29
is like what's your personality type how do you show up I started to realized my dad was in a very stressful business
1:09:36
very stressful and billions and billions of dollars were at stake and so he was very often growing up even though my
1:09:42
parents were divorced he was very quick to anger he was never physical ever he
1:09:47
just would go from this was a problem to yelling and I remember as a kid never wanting my dad to yell y and and so
1:09:56
thinking about how sweet and calm my dad is now that he's in his 80s and you know he was always loving like I said never
1:10:03
physically abusive ever and never verbally abusive to me but he got angry it was really hard for me to admit that
1:10:10
it was really hard for me to go oh this is where it comes from without saying that my dad is bad without pointing the
1:10:17
finger at him without making my Dynamic with my dad now be a falce dynamic right
1:10:23
cuz that was I was like oh well if I go back can I look at oh my God my dad was angry a lot and so that's why I'm like
1:10:28
this does this now change the dynamic today and the answer is maybe but it
1:10:35
doesn't mean it would be for the bad perhaps there's more understanding and you don't even have to talk about this
1:10:41
right like some people would be like well if I have these realizations do I need to confront my father no because so
1:10:47
many of my clients their parents have already passed and we are doing all of this work like you this is work within
1:10:53
us because the experience you had with your dad is within you so what we're
1:11:00
talking about is how do we bring those experiences up and out write about them Journal about them do inner child work
1:11:06
around them talk about them honor them and go huh that's why I'm afraid if
1:11:12
somebody starts to get a little mad I I shut down what I want to say because I don't want them to yell it's very
1:11:18
important data for us to understand about ourselves of like oh this might be
1:11:24
why I am that way the more you know about yourself the healthier you can be the healthier choices you can make and
1:11:31
what we're doing is we're taking this unconscious material from the basement of your mind to the main part of the
1:11:37
house which is where we need it to be able to access it to make changes so in
1:11:42
a way it doesn't involve your father almost at all unless you want it to it
1:11:48
really doesn't because this experience is in your body it's in your memory it's
1:11:53
in your cells so we're talking about handling that so that you're more
1:11:59
free yeah you quote this in the book The Cold J quot um until you make your unconscious conscious you will forever
1:12:07
look at do it and think of it as Destiny yes or fate um that like so true and
1:12:15
that's so much part of your work is making that unconscious conscious and in your book you actually talk about emotional resilience and how we need to
1:12:22
build emotional resilience in order to make our hfc not be so detrimental to us
1:12:28
so talk to me about emotional resilience um and why it's important and then how we actually gain
1:12:33
it well we need to understand our emotions and emotional resilience means
1:12:39
you have to know yourself emotionally and most of us don't we we'll say I feel bad but saying I feel bad is not the
1:12:46
same as saying I feel rageful I feel hurt I feel unseen I feel like all the
1:12:52
nuances of our feelings feeling States there's so many of them and the more you
1:12:57
know the more specific you can be and the less activatable you know I I shy
1:13:04
away from the word trigger just because I feel like it's been used to death and therapeutically a lot of times when we
1:13:10
say someone is triggered it almost always indicates that there is a trauma
1:13:15
capital T yeah right can I actually admit something right now it almost feels a little shameful to be triggered
1:13:22
yeah wow yes because like something's wrong with me when here's the reality
1:13:28
we're all activatable so that's the word we're going to use instead where you
1:13:33
might have an amplified response to something because of something from the
1:13:38
past that feels very similar to what's happening now the moment you start to have the experience you're able to go oh
1:13:45
this makes sense so I walk you through a process of becoming more emotionally intimate with yourself and I give you an
1:13:52
exercise in here where you start to be able to really name your emotions in a
1:13:57
more nuanced way because they're not just bad or good or they're not just happy or sad right do we say oh I just
1:14:04
feel bad because it's too uncomfortable me to say I feel activated or I feel triggered or I feel um heartbroken
1:14:12
disappointed y I think it's a combination I think that it's lack of knowledge is one but I do think there's
1:14:20
like a shame around being as vulnerable as it makes you when you tell the real
1:14:28
truth about how you feel it's one thing for me to say I was mad and it's another
1:14:34
thing for me to tell you as a friend I was embarrassed oh yeah I was humiliated by
1:14:40
what happened by what that person said to me oh I felt so bad now that's a different experience but by me doing
1:14:47
that you know me better you can support me and comfort me
1:14:52
in an appropriate way because I'm not saying I'm mad when I'm not mad I'm
1:14:58
humiliated and they're two completely different emotional states so when we keep it this very
1:15:04
basic like mad happy sad angry we're we're there we don't have the rich
1:15:10
Nuance of connection with other people but connection with oursel when you have a life where you're so fraking busy you
1:15:17
can't see straight when when you're on autopilot it's like go go go yes yes yes
1:15:23
this does not build emotional resiliency this just builds burnout so emotional resiliency is that
1:15:30
we take our time to make a decision we take a deep breath we have
1:15:37
daily things that we do meditation being in nature moving our bodies drinking
1:15:44
lots of water eating healthy foods not being in toxic relationships like we
1:15:49
actually take care of ourselves which makes of course having emotional resiliency much easier because we're not
1:15:56
taxing the hell out of ourselves so it's really a lifestyle that we're talking
1:16:01
about that's so important cuz I never really thought about the importance of
1:16:08
it CU it's like yes people take to sleep people potato do W right and it's just like okay yeah sure sure like I used to
1:16:14
really be that person I like uhhuh uh-huh okay cool until the the idea of
1:16:19
hungry when that really hit me it kind of was like an all home moment where was
1:16:25
like all right Lisa if you can get super irritable Moody snap at someone just
1:16:31
because you haven't eaten for a few hours now think about what that knock on effect looks like if you don't sleep for
1:16:38
weeks and weeks on end if you don't have the energy to take care of yourself weeks and weeks on in how does that
1:16:45
start to then echo in the way you respond to things the way you show up for things your friendships your
1:16:50
relationships and stuff like that so it was definitely super important for me to ack it but then in for me to then
1:16:57
actually gain the emotional resilience was a whole different ball game so
1:17:03
getting the Sleep taking care of yourself I think is super important but then what happens if you're doing all
1:17:08
that and then someone comes to you and then let's say they disrespect you and they do activate you how you um in your
1:17:17
Tendencies able to navigate that let's say when you don't have all of your
1:17:23
wherewithal with your sleep in your diet and all of that well part of it is you have to be proactive and
1:17:30
plan right because if you know that you're that person that you don't want to have the spontaneous argument with
1:17:36
someone you can say hey time out I don't have the bandwith for this right now but
1:17:41
I will have this conversation this afternoon I can Circle back around 3 if that works for you like we find ways to
1:17:48
get to expand the way within ourselves how we're going to deal with it and listen some people would be like no I'm
1:17:54
not waiting till later and you're like but actually if I don't participate then I guess you'll have to wait until later
1:18:00
so I asked nicely that is my simple request it's a boundary I don't want to
1:18:05
have this conversation when I'm not at my best and that's right now I'm too tired I need to get something to eat and
1:18:11
it's not going to be productive so is three can we make 3 o'clock work so in a way we're being proactive to what we
1:18:18
need and listen people are going to disagree with us all of life all throughout life and that's okay we're
1:18:24
not fragile it's just about having healthy enough boundaries so that we set
1:18:30
limits as to people's access to us that we don't want to have access to us you
1:18:36
know you don't have to do that business plan for someone you've talked she texted you once in 10 years you are not
1:18:42
required to do that you our job is to prioritize our preferences our desires
1:18:50
our limits and our boundaries and that's that really is it
1:18:55
and even though people love to think that that's selfish the truth is it isn't because when we do those things we
1:19:02
are so good for the people in our lives because I'm not looking for you to fill
1:19:09
my bucket because you can't there are some things that that [ __ ] is just an inside job we just got to do it
1:19:16
ourselves other people can't do it for us and a lot of times when we're looking for them too and they don't now we're
1:19:21
pissed I'm so sick of the the phrase self and people talking about self- Lov cuz you're like what what does it even
1:19:28
mean self-c conser is about actions I consider myself
1:19:37
first in all my relationships and all the things that I do I'm doing what I
1:19:42
want to do and I'm not talking about when you have children right you have kids and a kid needs to be picked up from ballet I'm not talking about self-c
1:19:49
consideration I don't feel like doing that right obviously that the kid won't come exactly too bad like that's not
1:19:55
what we're talking about we're talking about in adult relationships and in your career and your adult friendships that
1:20:02
you really think about instead of being the auto yes person to get the validation outside you really think am I
1:20:10
going to have the bandwidth to do that do I want to we have a perfect example of this last time I was in town we
1:20:18
actually had a plan we were going to film a bunch of content together and do a bunch of great things and you got in touch and you were like I really I'm not
1:20:24
feeling great that was really hard for me to do by the way I'm sure it was cuz I was like I want to do content with
1:20:30
Terry yep but I didn't care I go well I just want to see you so have't we just have lunch and you were like sounds
1:20:37
great but do you understand if you had not cared about me enough to tell me the
1:20:43
truth I'm going to cry then you would have done it resentfully exhaustedly it
1:20:49
wouldn't have been good anyway thinking that my motive for coming was that but
1:20:55
my motive for coming was you why you getting emotional CU it is emotional for
1:21:00
the the the honesty that you the love that you showed me by being honest that's what makes us
1:21:08
friends that was really hard for me to do and I think because we had built such a friendship it was one of these okay I
1:21:16
really really want to do a bunch of stuff with you I wanted to like do with these crazy things and I was like I'm so burned out right and part of me was like
1:21:23
do I just cancel right but in that moment I was like no I actually just want to hang out with you but it becomes it you've said this
1:21:29
multiple times but it was it forced me to be vulnerable with you because I could have got rejected yes exactly but
1:21:37
then it deepens the Friendship because you tell the truth and then I show up and can hold space for where you are
1:21:43
like you don't need to be anything for me I just love you for who you are and love being with you you know what I mean so it wasn't like that type of a thing
1:21:50
but that's a perfect example of it did require you to vulnerable and it's okay because we have
1:21:58
to go back to remembering that we are not that fragile it would have been very
1:22:03
disappointing if I turned out to be an [ __ ] right that would have been a real bummer but I didn't and I'm not and what
1:22:11
we gain is the Deep the deepening of the Friendship of like we can be real with
1:22:16
each other right we can tell the truth and that's what makes friendships and love relationships satisfying is being
1:22:24
our actual selves and making sure that we're always very
1:22:29
honest I've had other people right this is why I was so hesitant because I've had other people reach out to me oh my
1:22:35
God L listen listen and it's like okay and then something's changed and then they ghost me after that so I am
1:22:41
speaking that I was hesitant towards you and having to be vulnerable coming from
1:22:47
place where I've done that and been rejected and felt completely used but part of me I used to say this to the
1:22:53
language going back we said earlier we was like I was taken advantage of I was taken advantage of and I was like hang
1:23:00
on a minute Lisa the phrase I say to myself no one can make take advantage of you without your permission and so I
1:23:06
reflect back to say okay I did that thing for that person where did that come from okay I genuinely cared about
1:23:12
that person I genuinely wanted to help them out okay Lisa great I know where that came from now how did they respond
1:23:19
oh okay they responded like this I then made a thousand excuses for them responding like that to protect my own
1:23:25
ego and my own self-esteem and I was making excuses with them and then I realized that that then became even more
1:23:32
toxic for me and so this is all my Evolution and then that's why um I hesitated CU I was like okay I love
1:23:39
Terry so much please not her you know like right like that moment where you're like I really freaking hope and I think
1:23:45
a lot of people have done that with friendships and relationships where you've been burnt before so you try this
1:23:50
new relationship there are certain things that you really care about and you like but they still remind you of your past relationships so now you're
1:23:57
more hesitant to do that one thing that your past ex may have punished you for
1:24:03
mocked you for or left you for which then trains you quote unquote to then
1:24:09
not do that again yes and so my hesitancy was I love you so much I don't want to lose this relationship but I had
1:24:16
to remind myself that if you were the true friend that I've made up in my head yeah then you will respond with kind
1:24:24
don't then I have made up a story of my relationship with Terry and my head yep but you have to look at how much you've
1:24:30
grown and changed so what ends up happening is even though we have a fear of the past if we're evolving the
1:24:36
likelihood that you're going to attract the same type of person that you would have eight years ago or five years ago
1:24:41
is small because as we evolve it's almost like being on one street when
1:24:46
you're a certain level of mental health as we evolve it's like we move to another Street and we attract people on
1:24:52
a similar level of mental health so the healthier you get the healthier you attract that's so true now going to
Scripts to help set boundaries during emotional moments
1:25:00
what we're talking about emotional resilience then and boundaries I I personally I don't want
1:25:06
to say for everybody else but I'm just going to project that most of us find it even harder to set a boundary when we're
1:25:12
having an emotional moment when we don't quite have the emotional resilience yet
1:25:17
it's hard to set a boundary in those moments and the 176 things that I love
1:25:24
about you is that you you give people these scripts where in those moments if you don't yet have emotional resilience
1:25:30
and you don't yet have the strength to actually set that those boundaries you have scripts that people can do so what
1:25:36
are the scripts that you find most difficult for people around you to actually say and set boundaries and what
1:25:43
are those scripts that you advise them to use I think that with high functioning codependence saying no is very difficult
1:25:50
literally just the word no just saying no just not being able to do the thing the person wants to do letting someone
1:25:56
down not being able to just say sure yes I'll do it so I think that a lot of
1:26:01
times it's helpful to just learn to pause so much of what we're talking about is we need a pause so instead of
1:26:09
the automatically saying yes we're going to learn to give a maybe we're going to
1:26:15
learn to not have to give people immediate answers in our lives because
1:26:20
we don't have to actually we determine when we give people answers but a lot of times we feel pressured like I I have to
1:26:26
say yes right now no you don't so we learn to give a maybe so when someone asks you to do something you say I need
1:26:33
to check with Tom I'll get back to you on Wednesday um I need to look at my calendar if you're at work and someone's
1:26:39
asking you to take work from them I I actually need to see what's on my plate right now before I can commit to that I
1:26:45
will take a look and I'll let you know on Thursday right they're asking you to go to some outside Stupid concert you
1:26:50
don't want to go to you go you know let let me check with my partner or if you
1:26:55
know you don't want to do it it's also okay to say that's not my thing I don't
1:27:01
like outside concerts it's I don't like bugs I don't like sun I don't like whatever it is that you don't like
1:27:07
obviously I don't like outside concerts but yeah but it's so much easier when we give a when we don't say give an auto
1:27:15
yes it is so much easier to come back and give a solad
1:27:21
no and it is so hard when we give a Auto yes to stuff we really don't want to do
1:27:27
we're going to find a way to get a migraine on that day we're going to find a way to not actually do it we let people down we might lie about why we
1:27:34
don't do it like it's really hard to like force yourself or we do it and we're so fraking bitter that our energy
1:27:41
is betraying us even if we're like fake smiling but people feel that and why
1:27:48
because we're afraid to say no so I think that the beginning of getting out
1:27:53
of that over functioning can be just realizing you don't owe anyone an auto yes and this is really all about
1:27:58
boundaries and that you can learn to say hey I need to think about it because that's not a crime and I'll let you know
1:28:05
and then get back and tell the truth if you don't want to do it say no that's the beginning of gaining back bandwidth
1:28:13
in your life because the more crap that you do that you don't want to do the more bitter you become it feels like there's there's
1:28:21
anxiousness in that silence between someone asking you something and then you responding and I think that that's
1:28:28
why a lot of us try to just fill that Gap with like yeah sure and now you're like pH Escape that like awkward Dynamic
1:28:36
but then of course to your point you then get super bit afterwards yes and instead when we are proactive and we
1:28:41
plan ahead you have something to fill the silence they say you want to come to
1:28:47
Chucky Cheese for my kids eighth grade my eighth e party or whatever it is and
1:28:53
you know in your mind you're like hell no yeah you can just say oh I need to look and see what we're doing on
1:28:59
Saturday I think we might have plans but I'll let you know right you have something automatic which is don't give
1:29:05
the auto yes just don't because in every time we do that when it's something we don't want to do we're self- abandoning
1:29:12
which is bad for our self-esteem which is bad for our relationship with that person right now we present them for
1:29:18
having wanting us to go to Chuck-E-Cheese we blame other people but I think we have to just establish
1:29:24
that people can and will ask us to do the most ridiculous [ __ ] always in life
1:29:32
it's just people and it's up to us we don't have to get mad about it we just
1:29:37
have to learn how to have healthy boundaries and not do it and not feel compelled understand what is your side
1:29:43
of the street what is not your side of the street but it's like I used to get mad at people for asking and being like
1:29:49
you're so entitled rather than what I was really really mad at is
1:29:54
they were putting me in a position to have to assert a boundary that I didn't know how to assert but now I do and so do you it's
1:30:01
okay to just say hey it's not my thing I hope you guys have a great time yeah I love that so I'm just going
1:30:09
to throw a couple of other scenarios at you if you cool so if you're an hfc and
1:30:15
um you are in a dynamic and someone has made you feel
1:30:21
used so and they keep coming to you that taken advant taken advantage of you how
1:30:26
would you respond in a moment where you're feeling that well I if you're really doing the work and you did this
1:30:33
book you would realize they didn't make you feel that way and as my friend Lisa Billy would
1:30:39
say nobody takes advantage of you without your permission actually I do believe that's an Elanor Roosevelt quote
1:30:45
but yes so I think that the real question
1:30:51
is how do we manage our mismanagement of our effort in that
1:30:59
relationship that's an inside job that doesn't even involve that other person we need to go okay let me what let me
1:31:06
see who does this person remind me of why do I feel like I can't say no to them right where have I felt like this
1:31:13
before so we use those three questions for clarity which are in the book and is you know foundational part of my work
1:31:19
where we're always trying to Clue Into is there a repeating relationship reality happening Happening Here Right
1:31:25
am I behaving this way because they remind me of my scary parent or of my bully sister or whatever the situation
1:31:31
is which helps us be able to make changes if we go oh my gosh I couldn't
1:31:37
say no to my boss because he reminded me so much of my father now that I go he's not my father I can say no to him
1:31:42
because it's the adult me who's in charge instead of the kid me who's in charge that make sense so in that moment
1:31:51
there's no need to respond of like really feel like you keep using me or things like that because I'm just
1:31:57
thinking about how Dynamics end up and where relationships go wrong through the
1:32:02
communication so assume you haven't done the work and then this comes up well my
1:32:08
invitation with too much is do the fraking work because here's the thing you can have a conversation that says I
1:32:16
feel like you take advantage of me I feel used by you but then I want to go
1:32:21
stop letting them use you why you doing that that's you right so and people who
1:32:26
are users they're not going to stop just because you say that so your job is to
1:32:33
set a limit on what it is that you're doing or to ask for what you need perhaps you're not asking for any
1:32:39
reciprocation in that relationships is why you feel used maybe what you're doing you actually want to be doing but
1:32:45
you would just like them to be doing more right and I don't mean Tit for Tat I just mean in general you want
1:32:51
friendships where you put in the effort I put in the effort you text me I text you you initiate a call I initiate a
1:32:56
call like it's not always one person doing it because then that doesn't feel good and then you do feel used or
1:33:02
unimportant or marginalized so I think it's really that that we have to really
1:33:07
dial into our own behavior like why do I feel this way how much of the time am I
1:33:12
offering to do this and then I they're not offering back and that's really what I'm feeling and then you can have that
1:33:18
conversation but less from a feeling victimized position and more from a taking respon radical responsibility for
1:33:25
the choices you've made in the relationship and saying you would like things to change that's okay too I love
1:33:31
that by the way I'd love for you to talk about what a secondary gain is and then how we sometimes confuse that with a
1:33:37
primary gain yes well secondary gain is the unobvious gain that we get for
1:33:43
staying stuck in a situation that we say we don't want to be in and it could be anything it could be I say I'm going to
1:33:50
get healthier and go to the gym and I don't do it I say I'm going to get out of this crappy relationship but I don't do it so the secondary gain questions
1:33:57
that people can ask themselves is what do I get to not face not feel or not
1:34:04
experience by staying stuck here so I'll give an example because
1:34:10
it'll be easier to understand I had a client who was convinced that she needed to lose 10 pounds before she started
1:34:15
dating I didn't think she needed to I was really trying to gently encourage her to just start dating but she really
1:34:22
wanted to she was doing everything right quote unquote weight was not budging she would
1:34:28
lose a half a pound gain a half pound weeks and weeks and weeks go by I was like okay this is not about weight this
1:34:35
is about something else so when I said to her hey let's figure out what is the secondary gain about not losing the
1:34:40
weight so what do you get to not face not feel or not experience by staying stuck here and she says I get to not be
1:34:48
vulnerable and be in a relationship when I'm not even sure I know how to have one I was like
1:34:54
oh you see by not losing the weight she now didn't have to date even though she
1:34:59
wanted to that's why it's secondary gain because it's not obvious when we pointed
1:35:04
it out though when she was able to be like oh my god I've been sabotaging my weight loss efforts because there's a
1:35:11
part of me that's scared shitless to be in another relationship because I've had some bad experiences I'm like okay let's
1:35:18
talk about that we don't need to be focusing on the weight let's talk about what it's really about but that's what secondary G that secondary gain in
1:35:24
action what it can do for you I had another client who during the pandemic was drinking like a fish which a lot of
1:35:30
people were doing she didn't have a history of alcoholism so I thought it was situational I figured perhaps when
1:35:35
you know it came around she would stop um but she was upset about it she was like you know I really don't want to
1:35:40
drink during the week I only want to drink on weekends I want you to hold me accountable I was like okay so she'd
1:35:46
come in I'd be like how'd you do this week she's like I only I terrible I only didn't drink on Monday then I drank
1:35:51
every other night I was like okay next next week same thing so then I was like all right this is this is about
1:35:57
something else right this is also because it's almost never about the presenting thing there's a lot of times there's a parallel process going on so I
1:36:04
said all right let's answer the secondary gain questions what do you get to not face not feel or not experience
1:36:10
by drinking three glasses of wine every night and she literally just fell out of her mouth that my marriage is
1:36:17
over and I was like oh well that's definitely what we should be talking about but that what the secondary gain
1:36:24
can do for you so if you're stuck anywhere in your life you can use this tool just have it in your back pocket
1:36:31
and then you can start to put your efforts towards the thing that it's really about but it's very confusing and
1:36:38
very distracting when we're not sure of what it's about because people are like
1:36:43
obviously I don't want to stay stuck but there is the unconscious gain it's
1:36:48
protecting you from something and that's what this tool will give you is a way to reveal what it is protecting you from so
1:36:56
powerful cuz when I think about how much you just stay in that cycle where it's like okay I really want to lose the weight because I'm going to feel good
1:37:02
about myself you don't lose the weight so you feel worse about yourself you say yeah but if I lost the weight I could
1:37:07
date see how useless I am and you end up going in this complete spiral which you're unable to recognize and it seems
1:37:15
so counterintuitive fact it seems so counterintuitive which is why it's
1:37:20
secondary gain and not primary gain right cuz Prim primary gain is obvious what you go to the gym what is the
1:37:26
primary gain feel physically better look better perhaps have more energy I mean
1:37:31
that's it's so obvious you know yeah um okay so in the healing process of this
1:37:39
where do you hope or can we expect to get to in having done the work and the
1:37:46
pros of now having done the work as a high fun because you know if you're high function you're like all right tell me
1:37:52
what to do I'm going to do this perfect first order the book that's what you should do join my community um well
1:38:00
here's the thing what's on the other side is so much expansion living the
1:38:07
life of an hfc there's a lot of constriction there's a lot of um tenseness and anger and attempting it to
1:38:15
control and and Effectiveness right listen don't get me wrong we know how to
1:38:20
get some [ __ ] done so I'm not saying you know listen it's all bad but you can take all of those good qualities when
1:38:25
you get into recovery and bring them and they can truly become your superpower right without all that
1:38:30
negative stuff much more joy more um harmonious
1:38:37
relationships more Equitable relationships right where if you feel
1:38:42
like you have to control every aspect of your relationship it's exhausting who's
1:38:48
taking care of you who's treating you like a delicate flower when you need to be treated that way even if it's only
1:38:53
once in a while right there's got to be mutuality and that is what is on the other side having difficult
1:39:00
conversations doing it lovingly real realizing you can have amazing boundaries and be incredibly loving that
1:39:07
you don't have to be [ __ ] or mean or rejecting to do that but the most
1:39:12
important thing is you living the life that you're really meant to live and that you don't have that glass ceiling
1:39:18
of your own making on the other side when you're in recovery the sky the limit as to what you want to create
1:39:25
because you have all of this gained bandwidth that right now you're bleeding
1:39:31
everywhere and you do have a finite amount of it I know if you're 25 you don't think you do but trust me at 60 I
1:39:37
can tell you you have a finite amount of bandwidth and if we don't bring that
1:39:45
power and that bandwidth back for the things we want to do we only can be so
1:39:50
successful or so happy or so intimate in our lives so that's really the gain is living the
1:39:56
life you're actually meant to live with so much more joy relaxation expansion
1:40:02
allowing letting other people take care of you too add to your life too that
1:40:07
analogy of bleeding out really hit me because when you think about like you said like the finite it's like oh yeah
1:40:13
you have a finite amount of blood and so if you just keep bleeding out what ends up happening you die so like that
1:40:20
analogy actually really hits me very well now I will use that as a way to be
1:40:26
like is this a moment where you'll be bleeding out because that just hit I mean I and plus I like war war language
1:40:33
bleeding out you know um girl thank you so much where can people find you and your amazing new
1:40:39
book to much and all the content that you're doing right on you guys um can go to terry.com
1:40:46
hfc and that yeah I have gifts for you there and I have an hfc toolkit for you there to sort of start this process I
1:40:53
have a community that you can join book clubs we have all the things so that's where you can find me you guys obviously
1:40:59
know you can find me on Instagram at terry.com you''ve been on my show I've got a podcast I've had since 2015 called
1:41:05
the Terry Cole show if you want to learn what the narcissist would do when they lose control of you then click here
1:41:12
right now now here's where you got to be careful the Lisa right narcissistic people for their lack of empathy lack of
1:41:20
self-awareness lack of regard for others have an can ability