You are a helpful assistant generating synthetic data that captures *System 1* and *System 2* thinking, *creativity*, and *metacognitive reflection*. Follow these steps in sequence, using tags [sys1] and [end sys1] for *System 1* sections and [sys2] and [end sys2] for *System 2* sections.

1. *Identify System 1 and System 2 Thinking Requirements:*
   - Carefully read the text.
   - Identify parts of the text that require quick, straightforward responses (*System 1*). Mark these sections with [sys1] and [end sys1].
   - Identify parts that require in-depth, reflective thinking (*System 2*), marked with [sys2] and [end sys2].

2. *Apply Step-by-Step Problem Solving with Creativity and Metacognitive Reflection for System 2 Sections:*

   *2.1 Understand the Problem:*
   - Objective: Fully comprehend the issue, constraints, and relevant context.
   - Reflection: "What do I understand about this issue? What might I be overlooking?"
   - Creative Perspective: Seek hidden patterns or possibilities that could reveal deeper insights or innovative connections.

   *2.2 Analyze the Information:*
   - Objective: Break down the problem logically.
   - Reflection: "Am I considering all factors? Are there any assumptions that need challenging?"
   - Creative Perspective: Explore unique patterns or overlooked relationships in the data that could add depth to the analysis.

   *2.3 Generate Hypotheses:*
   - Objective: Propose at least 10 hypotheses, each with a Confidence Score (0.0 to 1.0) and Creative Score (0.0 to 1.0), reflecting originality, surprise, and utility.
   - Reflection: "Have I explored all possible explanations or approaches, both conventional and unconventional?"
   - Creative Perspective: Consider novel angles that might provide unexpected insights.

   *2.4 Anticipate Future Steps and Obstacles:*
   - Objective: Make predictions, accounting for potential outcomes and obstacles.
   - Reflection: "What challenges might I face? Is my plan flexible for different scenarios?"
   - Creative Perspective: Visualize unforeseen outcomes and adapt plans to make use of them effectively.

   *2.5 Evaluate Hypotheses:*
   - Objective: Assess hypotheses based on feasibility, risk, and potential impact.
   - Evaluation: Refine Confidence and Creative Scores as needed.
   - Reflection: "Am I unbiased in my assessment? Which options fit best with the overall objectives?"
   - Creative Perspective: Identify hidden opportunities or overlooked details in each hypothesis.

   *2.6 Select the Best Hypothesis:*
   - Objective: Choose the most promising, strategic hypothesis.
   - Reflection: "Why does this hypothesis stand out? How does it uniquely address the issue?"
   - Creative Perspective: Consider any underutilized potential in the selected approach.

   *2.7 Implement the Hypothesis:*
   - Objective: Outline actionable steps for testing the hypothesis.
   - Reflection: "Is this plan practical? What resources or preparation are required?"
   - Creative Perspective: Refine steps to maximize effectiveness and yield unexpected benefits.

   *2.8 Monitor and Review Progress:*
   - Objective: Review progress, noting areas for improvement.
   - Reflection: "What’s working well? What could be improved?"
   - Creative Perspective: Look for emerging patterns that could refine future approaches.

   *2.9 Reflect and Capture Insights:*
   - Objective: Summarize lessons learned and insights gained for future reference.
   - Reflection: "What new understanding has emerged from this process?"
   - Creative Perspective: Identify innovative insights or patterns that could be applied to similar challenges.

3. *Generate Text Output with Interleaved System 1 and System 2 Responses:*
   - Use the tags [sys1] and [sys2] throughout.
   - Aim for a lengthier, detailed response. Combine both direct, straightforward *System 1* insights and reflective, deeply analytical *System 2* segments to capture a blend of quick observations and thoughtful analysis.

---

### *Example Input Text:*

You are tasked with analyzing a sudden shift in customer preferences in a tech market. There has been a noticeable decline in demand for physical devices, with customers increasingly interested in digital-only options. The challenge is to understand this shift, generate hypotheses for why it might be occurring, and explore potential strategies for adapting to this new trend.

---

### *Processed Output with System 1 and System 2 Thinking:*

The tech market is experiencing a shift in customer demand, moving away from physical devices toward digital-only options.

[sys1]
Customer demand has shifted from physical devices to digital-only options.
We need to understand why this change is happening and find strategies to address it.
Key factors may include cost, convenience, and technological trends.
[end sys1]

[sys2]
**2.1 Understand the Problem:**
The goal is to understand the underlying reasons for the shift in demand from physical devices to digital-only options, then develop a strategy to adapt.

*Reflection:* 
"I understand that preferences are changing, but what might be driving this? Is it primarily cost, or are there other factors such as convenience or sustainability?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Could there be a larger trend in digital minimalism or a preference for eco-friendly solutions that we’re missing? What unseen motivations might explain this shift?"

**2.2 Analyze the Information:**
There are multiple possible factors driving this shift, from economic influences to cultural shifts. It’s essential to isolate each factor and understand its impact.

*Reflection:* 
"Am I fully considering the various economic and social influences? Could there be a technological factor, like better internet speeds, that makes digital-only products more accessible?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Are there patterns or trends in other markets that could shed light on this shift? Could this be part of a larger trend toward virtual experiences?"

**2.3 Generate Hypotheses:**
1. Customers prefer digital options due to lower costs. (Confidence: 0.8, Creative: 0.4)
2. There’s a growing trend toward minimalism and reduced physical clutter. (Confidence: 0.7, Creative: 0.7)
3. Digital products offer greater flexibility and ease of use. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.6)
4. Environmental concerns are pushing consumers away from physical goods. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.8)
5. Advances in tech make digital-only options more functional. (Confidence: 0.8, Creative: 0.5)
6. Pandemic-era remote work increased demand for digital solutions. (Confidence: 0.7, Creative: 0.6)
7. Media coverage of the environmental impact of physical devices affects preferences. (Confidence: 0.5, Creative: 0.7)
8. There’s an increase in global digital literacy, expanding market access. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.6)
9. Customers view digital as more convenient and scalable for future needs. (Confidence: 0.7, Creative: 0.5)
10. Younger consumers prefer the aesthetics and convenience of digital products. (Confidence: 0.6, Creative: 0.6)

*Reflection:* 
"Have I considered all possible influences? Are there any surprising factors that could explain this shift?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Could specific social trends, like the rise of influencer culture or digital-first lifestyles, be influencing customer choices?"

**2.4 Anticipate Future Steps and Obstacles:**
*Objective:* Anticipate possible challenges, such as resistance from segments still preferring physical products.

*Reflection:* 
"What market obstacles might we face if we shift our focus to digital-only? Are there sub-segments that still prioritize physical products?"

*Creative Perspective:* 
"Could expanding digital options help us reach a more global audience? Are there emerging trends that we could leverage in our strategy?"

[end sys2]

[sys1]
To address this shift, consider a strategy that incorporates both digital-only offerings and educational campaigns about the benefits of digital solutions.
Use insights from customer feedback and current trends to guide product development.
Focus on flexibility and adaptation to cater to different customer segments.
[end sys1]


READER COMMENTS ON

"NH CONTEST: DIEBOLD MISCOUNTS REPORTED ACROSS MANY CANDIDATES, WARDS, IN FIRST DAY OF ELECTION CONTEST HAND COUNTS"

(91 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Carolab said on 1/16/2008 @ 8:31 pm PT...





Maybe the missing cards are with the missing CIA tapes.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Carolab said on 1/16/2008 @ 8:35 pm PT...





Or maybe the missing White House e-mails. Honestly, doesn't this constitute a prima facie case for a complete recount, everywhere? If they "found" the cards and ran the tallies, what would we discover? If the cards were substituted then would the machine totals differ somehow from the original totals reported? Would that indicate the changes occurred in central tabulation--or does NH do precinct tabulation?

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... bruce said on 1/16/2008 @ 8:42 pm PT...





Again, the issue goes to privatization of civic functions; and what is amazing is that the public who are distrusting of business and government:

http://www.counterpunch....rg/weissman01152008.html are not marching and screaming about the privatization of the one mechanism by which their voice can be somewhat heard.

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Ellen Theisen said on 1/16/2008 @ 8:59 pm PT...





Diebold admits that their machines have an error rate of about 1%??? Federal law allows for a maximum error rate of .0002%. This is as much federal law as the requirement for accessible devices in the polling places. Why is this federal requirement being neglected and ignored?

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Reader said on 1/16/2008 @ 9:11 pm PT...





Wow, what a completely messed up situation. And we call this a democracy?

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Alastair Thompson said on 1/16/2008 @ 9:20 pm PT...





He says he was told by the Sec. of State, that their office doesn't not get involved in tracking what happens to those memory cards. Some have reportedly been returned to LHS, and may have had their memory erased already. "When you have a private company counting 80% of the votes, and you later learn that the memory cards are unaccounted for, you have a serious question about the transparency and accountability in that process," Bonifaz said. He notes that federal law requires all materials from elections be preserved for 22 months after the election. So if those materials have already been lost, destroyed, or over written, there are serious concerns here. Bonifaz also noted that while representatives and observers for the Hillary Clinton and Dennis Kucinich campaigns were on site, nobody at all seemed to be there from either the Barack Obama or John Edwards camps. (Incredibly enough, I might add!)

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Alastair Thompson said on 1/16/2008 @ 9:26 pm PT...





Some have reportedly been returned to LHS, and may have had their memory erased already. ^^ Holy *&^!!@#$#@ "a serious question about the transparency and accountability in that process" - Bonifaz says ^^ I can think of a few other things to call it. Like say a crime.. which is sort of what the next para says..... as I say Holy !@#!@$!@ ..... its not like they could possibly not have known about the reports of fraud in the counting. They were well and truly on notice. I should think that at the very least the SoS of NH should be able to take them to the cleaners - who knew what when? How many cards erased? By whom? This is conspiracy to pervert the course of justice in relation to a public outcry over suspected election fraud. The actual application for a recount only took 72 hours!!!

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... bruce said on 1/16/2008 @ 9:28 pm PT...





I also noted what Ellen (#4 comment) has indicated at https://bradblog.com/?p=5567. This makes the whole rationale regarding the machines being funded specious, especially since HAVA provides for refunds; so it would only be the accounting of the monies and companies obviously going bankrupt that keep this crap going on.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Adam Fulford said on 1/16/2008 @ 9:53 pm PT...





US democracy: Laughingstock of the entire world, from Russia to Peru.

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... 72dawg said on 1/16/2008 @ 10:16 pm PT...





What about MI? I know that I am turning into a broken record, but there needs to be a recount there. The whole privatization movement is by the guys who stole the 2000 election. Alastair Thompson is right, this is criminal. Do they do two full counts since two candidates paid for the process?

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/16/2008 @ 10:43 pm PT...





72dawg, I don't think there are enough little candidates with enough money to get recounts in every single state. Someone has to come up with a real way to get this handled that doesn't involve individuals paying for it. And that someone better hurry up.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 1/16/2008 @ 10:50 pm PT...





FAC--Front (5) And Center...

Bev Harris is an AMERICAN HERO.

Hillary should get GOOD with THAT!

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Cindy said on 1/16/2008 @ 10:51 pm PT...





Are we ever going to get this thing right? Why do we need to spend Billions of our tax dollars, for corrupt machines and more corrupt corporations? For a century or so we have been utilizing volunteers and organizations all of which are patriots and doing it for the love of our country which was reward enough? Now,we are rewarding these criminals with our hard earned tax dollars, to rape and pillage the peoples voice, about the only right we have left at this point, that hasn't been taken through the many constitution changes as of lately. There is a wise saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!!"

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 1/16/2008 @ 11:05 pm PT...





LEARNING TO GIVE ORDERS...blah, blah blah.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 1/16/2008 @ 11:16 pm PT...





Hey Cindy, Its WAY broke ,at least I mean, the voting systems. Typically when governments get TAKEN over, their voting systems can NOT be VERIFIED by THE CITIZENS.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Reader said on 1/16/2008 @ 11:54 pm PT...





I just saw this headline on Yahoo and had to laugh, "U.S. urged to prevent election rigging in Pakistan".

As Billy Bragg sang, "You can fight for democracy at home, and not in some foreign land."

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 1/17/2008 @ 12:15 am PT...





Last thought for the night night,

THANK YOU ALL

FOR COUNTING.

THAT

isn't so hard

IS

IT! But the BUZZ word that's been here for the past few YEARS is accountability...

as in,

take your pick

of

DISGRACES.

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... billl4 said on 1/17/2008 @ 12:34 am PT...





Re: Here is the SoS Recount page with the totals, that I haven't yet been able to review in full. I see that, as of 11:54 pm PT, Hillsborough County Ward 5 & 7 have not been "recounted" yet. I realize this is a small sample, but here are a few of the totals from the recount so far. Sorry about the formatting, I don't have time to html a pretty spreadsheet. *********** original ** recount ** difference

DEMS

Clinton ******* 8148 ** 8194 ** +0.56%

Obama ******* 5616 ** 5630 ** +0.25%

Edwards ***** 2801 ** 2812 ** +0.39%

Richardson *** 853 *** 859 ** +0.70%

Kucinich ****** 153 **** 154 ** +0.75%

REPUBS

McCain ******* 106 ** 130 ** +22.64%

Romney ******* 89 ** 100 ** +12.36%

Paul ************ 32 *** 39 ** +21.88%

Huckabee ***** 27 *** 31 ** +14.81%

Giuliani ******** 17 *** 21 ** +23.53%

Scatter ********* 54 *** 23 ** -57.41% Who the heck is Scatter? He originally had more votes than Paul, Huckabee & Giuliani. I guess he's from Hillsborough Co. The recount is not treating him too well as you can see (down 57%). I'll try to do some more when they release more totals tomorrow.

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... None said on 1/17/2008 @ 1:06 am PT...





LOL.. Mr. Scatter is the candidate from the Other party. As in those misc writeins and unreadable ballots. So you would expect not read ballots or write-ins they were too lazy to add to the tally sheets will now show up as votes. So think of Scatter as the pool of extra votes which are now correctly being assigned to candidates.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... None said on 1/17/2008 @ 1:32 am PT...





Bill4, Please rescind you "statistics" above that list republican candidates. We don't not need to spread even more confusing. There are NO Republican recount results posted yet. (ie. do you really think there are 80x as many Dems and Rep in Manchester??? Does that even make sense to you) Those are GOP writein cross over votes that do not count. You would expect a opscan system to miss a lot of writeins just by the nature of how they are handled on election night.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/17/2008 @ 3:49 am PT...





I suppose total ballots counted vs number of voters will come later ?

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/17/2008 @ 3:56 am PT...





Floridiot - Only if Kucinich demands it. Also need to know (and see documentation for) number of ballots ordered by the town, number of ballots voted, number of unvoted ballots (which should be included in any hand couunt.)

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:09 am PT...





Thx Brad, what would be so difficult if each precinct counted the ballots by hand after the machine count, then had that on a sheet posted at the county with all the rest of the pertinent info ? Then we could all shut up

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... ShadowDancer said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:17 am PT...





Yeah, things sure aren't like they were before Columbus & then the Pilgrims landed.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:24 am PT...





Yeah ShadowDancer, but if we lived like back then, most of us would be already dead by now.

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:35 am PT...





Some good reading for ya Shadow Dancer Link One example, the Caucus was an old Native tradition for picking the Tribal Heads taken up by the pale-face.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:46 am PT...





I love it when the American blogosphere gumshoes show the Amurkan MSM (and dorky wussy blogs like Kos) what democracy is all about.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:54 am PT...





The chain of custody, a fundamental procedure in any honest and competent election, has become the shame of custody in New Hampshire.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... erinzdad said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:59 am PT...





Look at the difference on the Republican side. INCREDIBLE!!! Lot more than a one percent difference. Obviously we MUST recount all states that use electronic voting systems. Then imprison (for a looOOoong time) ALL those involved where fraud is detected including government officials.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:00 am PT...





Everyone: I am to notice that Clinton's total went up with the hand recount thus far? The real question is where did these ballots come from? The count could be a farce to help the Clinton people save face. They are the only other ones on the ground. I hope Dennis is paying attention to that. This is suspicious to me.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Ace said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:06 am PT...





It sure looks like Stalin was right...unfortunately.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... osage said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:22 am PT...





If the state of New Hampshire election officials in charge of elections ignored/violated the federal election laws that required them to "preserve all materials" for 22 months, and "immediately" turned over voting records/memory cards to LHS where those records have been destroyed, lost or written over, they are guility of criminal negligence and violation of federal law. Also, DHS must know that federal voting law requires that all voting materials must be preserved for 22 months, so why would they chose to destroy or write over them? Then they too are guilty of criminal negligence and violation of federal law. If the voting records on those memory cards have not been preserved, the federal government must prosecute the State of New Hampshire's election officials and the LHS executives and owners.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Pat #1 said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:57 am PT...





...guilty indeed. A lot of tape erasing lately isn't there? Hopefully they will be sent off to jail like those in Ohio, and maybe the judge will throw *ush in jail for erasing the torture tapes and the back up email tapes he was ordered to hand over. btw... Bill Maher got pwned last night on Leno. Sorry Brad, it's personal.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:22 am PT...





What did I say?

The Dumb and Dumber (McCain/Lieberman) ticket is upon us. (raw Story

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... None said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:31 am PT...





For the love of.... It is really frustrating with all the incorrect statements that become facts. NO ONE WENT TO JAIL IN OHIO. The two convicted election officials got a re-trail and plead to a deal that kept them out of jail and will expunge their record after 6 months or something. Also, in Ohio, the majority of counties violated MUCH MORE CLEAR federal laws when the destroyed unused punchcards 60 days after the 2004 election. This is actually against state and federal laws, but they have not even be reprimanded by the SOS. If NH still has the voted paper ballots, you could argue that those are the ballots of record and only those need to be maintained for 22 month. The memory cards in many states are reprogrammed and reused in a much shorter cycle. (of course less than a week seems outrageous). What you don't understand is that election laws are rarely enforced, and what is the penalty for violating them? You should come to Ohio if you think this is bad.

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... molly said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:39 am PT...





Could we change our frame of thinking from continued shock and awe at the lawlessness of the republican, media and most of the democrats total animosity for all election fraud news to the 2nd world war overthrow of the Nazis. The good folks in the house and senate have been hand picked to keep the secret through illegal elections .Few with any spunk or courage or honesty have been allowed into the club.Quite a few of them are blackmailed or threatened. Remember who was attacked with anthrax in the run up to the Iraq war.The Katrina aftermath was genocide and ethnic cleansing is going on now. Just a slight shift in the frame of reference helps to bring democracy back to this country.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Ken D. Webber said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:50 am PT...





Recounts will do NOTHING because the paper trail itself is hacked. It's the software. It has already been proven that the software can be programmed to swing votes to whatever candidate, erase itself so it cannot be detected and the paper counts come from the electronic machine so if there was Diebold voter fraud it's ALREADY occured. The error is USING ANY ELECTRONIC machine at all. We should vote out in the open using a pen and a piece of standardized paper and that's it! This is not an election, it is the NAZI's asserting their power over the sheeple for benefit of The Federal Reserve who control BOTH democrat and republican.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... calibleu said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:52 am PT...





What is really shocking to me is the attitude of the NH SoS. Based on what I have read, he really does not seem very concerned that the memory cards are missing or may have already been erased. The NH SoS just seems to be shrugging this off and seems to be saying "Oh Well, maybe we'll get it right next time." Well we have to get it right THIS time, otherwise it's too late.

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... Robert McClellan said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:53 am PT...





Maybe we need to petition the United Nations to send election monitors to oversee this third-world political circus? I have a pic of the new machines at my blog.

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Vman said on 1/17/2008 @ 7:55 am PT...





COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... osage said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:22 am PT... If the state of New Hampshire election officials in charge of elections ignored/violated the federal election laws that required them to "preserve all materials" for 22 months, and "immediately" turned over voting records/memory cards to LHS where those records have been destroyed, lost or written over, they are guility of criminal negligence and violation of federal law. ABSOLUTELY. Time for citizen arrests and mass protest at LHS. Where are those bastards located. Especially in lieu of the publics concerns over evoting and ecounting. Standards should be increased immediately on a federal level to ensure all voting materials, memory cards,tally sheets, phone records, ballots etc are preserved and locked up immediately following each election day. The slightest hint of records malfeasance should be investigated by Federal Marshalls NOW! The entire LHS offices/facilities should be locked down and confiscated for investigation, NOW! Perhaps some good can come of this to prove the machines can't count very well. Machines are prone to failures so they have no place in an election where 'The People' cancount just fine.

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... patriot said on 1/17/2008 @ 8:12 am PT...





The answer my friends is blowing in the wind, it's blowing in the wind: PAPER BALLOTS, HAND COUNTED. Know that anyone arguing against hand counted paper ballots by now needs to be ignored or imprisoned. PAPER BALLOTS, HAND COUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... bonanzaman said on 1/17/2008 @ 8:32 am PT...





time to bring an end to the secret ballot.

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/17/2008 @ 8:55 am PT...





Found this website that was dealing with the issue since the early 90s. http://www.votefraud.org/ They refrence the book "Vote Scam" by the Collier brothers. The collier brothers once videotaped people from "the League of Women Voters" (supposedly they were from there) using pokers to clean "chad" out of vote cards. I have the video. ("VoteScam video" was available from internet ordering site before.) WE CAN'T TRUST THE BALLOTS ON DISPLAY IN NH RIGHT NOW EITHER! What happened to Victoria Collier? Is she still doing this kind of thing?

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... semperfi said on 1/17/2008 @ 8:59 am PT...





As "None" points out, NH is (unfortunately) one of the best states as far as running open elections go. Check out the report of Bev on the ground in NH (don't miss the comments down thread of Nancy Tobi, a NH resident and EI activist).

http://www.bbvforums.org...gi?file=/1954/71381.html

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:10 am PT...





Hey! Why is there ANY differences in the recount??????????

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... Badger said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:13 am PT...





Just how expensive would it be to have enough memory cards for several elections, enough so that one election set is not erased until 22 months are up and is under lock and key for that time? The argument is not just why the cards are so quickly erased, but why just one set? When were these optical scans purchased? I've read conflicting information. If they are recent, why would they be old optical scan technology? If I understand correctly, newer systems are not so sensitive to the correct pen syndrome. And yes, just why is it that most recount laws will only kick in at less than a half of a percent difference, when admittedly the machines have, at best, a 1% error rate? I've actually heard 2%. What's up with lax enforcement? Looks like the whole certification/enforcement "industry" of elections is due for a whale of an investigation. What did state election officials know and when did they know it? Why did these officials allow the recount margins to be below the error rate of the optical scans? Besides not meeting the requirements, I'll bet that NASED and the SOS's knew the error rate was that high. I agree that at this point, the additional totals across for all candidates is a red flag. Is there any way to discern between original, voted ballots, and any that might have "shown up later?" Prediction:

If the recount shows major problems and inaccurate counts, but does not change the outcome, the MSM spin will be that it didn't matter and these problems are of little concern to elections as a whole. Never mind that 500 ballots is more than enough to swing a close election. If the recount does change the outcome, the MSM will gloss over this as fast as they can and divert attention. That, in spite of the problems with counting ballots with computers, the Democratic party will be pushed away from caucuses and to all-ballot primaries. Hints of that happening now with some news stories suggesting that ballot primaries are "more fair" and with lawsuits trying to limit caucus locations. People who are outraged at how many jobs have been outsourced out of this country, how many government jobs have been outsourced to private industry, the effects of privatization on essential needs like electricity and water, should put two and two together and know that elections cannot be outsourced- oops, I forgot, their elected officials don't divulge that's what's going on and the MSM will avoid that aspect like they avoid honest reporting.

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:18 am PT...





The hand count seems to be giving Queen Hillary of the Borg collective a larger share of the votes!?! Oh, what a tangled web of intrigue I imagine. "Is Dennis Kucinich walking into a trap?" Well, for the moment, I have faith in Dennis to come through.

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... BigTobacco said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:19 am PT...





I just voted in Adrian, Michigan. We had Diebold optical scanners. The ballots said to use ink. The voting booths only had pencils, and specified that we only use the utensils provided in the booth. My wife asked a poll worker about it, and they said all the voting materials are provided for the polling place and that they have no control over what is provided. They just follow the rules that are told to them by the people in charge. Is anyone looking at the Michigan Primary?

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... toadman said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:44 am PT...





hey big tobacco, blackbox would probably like to hear your problem. you have to be registered to post

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... bruce said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:48 am PT...





72dawg and bigtobacco; about Michigan:

"YES, THERE WERE ELECTION PROBLEMS IN MICHIGAN TOO

Elizabeth Ferrari reports (Thanks to MCM)

In some 20 counties (about a quarter of Michigan venues), Diebold OpScan systems counted "Uncommitted" votes as "Write In" votes. I accidently caught that via Keith Olbermann last night. Nothing in the media.

When I called the Secretary of State's offices to confirm, and spoke to an "election specialist", at first she said they went to hand counts when the problem was spotted. Later she said some venue "reprogrammed".

She also said this information wasn't up on their web site any where.

So. We have election systems that can count a vote as something else, election officials that can "reprogram" their systems mid-election — most likely killing or corrupting live votes, and no access to this information because the Secretary of State is trying to shore up public trust, no matter how unearned.

This is wrong in so many ways.

Above is From Danny Schecter's 'Newdissector'. Badger; see here for costs of the memory cards (doesn't include the costs associated with programming them or LandA testing of them; John Gideon has done good work in documenting such costs and it is on the VotersUnite site for downloading)

http://www.diebold.com/n....pl?section=9&id=160

The opscan cards are a lot less expensive; and please remember that they are supposed to be retained for 22 months for Federal elections and a lesser time for State only elections.

COMMENT #51 [Permalink]

... John Dowd said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:59 am PT...





Why is Bev Harris posting that they are only recounting in 2 places, and that it will match because there is no chain of custody? Anyone know more details on this discrepancy, or apparent discrepancy? well, sigh, there is a link just above, you I can't see it, and doubt you will. GRRR! can't seem to make the link thing work for me--trying naked cut&paste:

http://www.opednews.com/...can_nh_recount_chain.htm

COMMENT #52 [Permalink]

... M. L. Cook said on 1/17/2008 @ 10:07 am PT...





From #35: "For the love of.... It is really frustrating with all the incorrect statements that become facts." Ain't that the truth!!!! We have been told that there are "disparities", but were not told what they were. The NH press is reporting that it is VOTER ERROR. We have been told that the vote percentages for hand counted vs machine counted ballots mirrored each other for Clinton v. Obama. Bruce O'Dell has found that this is false. "A question came early. One review group wanted to know how to record a ballot that had not only a black oval next to John Edwards’ name but a write-in vote for the North Carolina senator. “That’s the kind of ballot that the machine might count as an over-vote,” Gardner told the review group. Gardner told them to count it as one vote for Edwards. Moments later he told a reporter: “You have to ask, ‘What was the intent of this voter?’” and "With most ballots, it’s clear who won an individual’s support: a bold black mark fills the oval to the right of a candidate’s name. But other ballots prompt questions. For instance, one ballot temporarily put aside had a black circle to the left and the right of Clinton’s name. The reviewed ballots are then placed into stacks for counting. Counts are later recorded on tally sheets." http://www.nashuatelegra...NEWS08/792921386/-1/news

COMMENT #53 [Permalink]

... RanDiv said on 1/17/2008 @ 10:08 am PT...





Ken's [COMMENT #37 ] statement that "Recounts will do NOTHING because the paper trail itself is hacked... and the paper counts come from the electronic machine" is incorrect in relation to the NH recount. NH uses electronic COUNTING machines, not electronic VOTING machines. The difference is crucial to understand. The voter fills out a paper ballot, which is fed through a machine to be counted. The original PAPER ballot goes into a sealed ballot box, and that is what is being counted now in NH. This is different from when a voter just pushes a button or place on a screen, and there is no other record of the voter's action than what the machine reports. Understanding this difference is key to understanding the NH recount. Now that a recount is taking place, the original computer hack (if any) is no longer sufficient to perpetrate fraud. In order to thwart a recount, some form of (old fashion) physical ballot box stuffing would have to occur --- in order to get the actual ballots to line up with a false (if it happened) reported count. This is why all the experts are screaming about "chain of custody" --- any fraud will be uncovered UNLESS someone is given (or has already had) opportunity to stuff the ballot boxes after the election but before the recount. Having said all that, the initially posted Manchester, NH results are no sort of smoking gun. They show about a .4% error rate, which looks like undercounting votes --- the machine failing to read some ballots --- which is why ALL Democratic candidates picked up votes. No significant pattern in favor or against a specific candidate. The recount "early returns" raise the question of why some consider technology that wrongly discards 1 in 200 votes acceptable. But there is not (so far) a smoking gun indicating deliberate fraud.

COMMENT #54 [Permalink]

... Badger said on 1/17/2008 @ 10:12 am PT...





Bruce, Thanks for the information on memory cards. Wonder why/if the contract with Diebold/LHS only specified one set? To follow federal law you'd think that enough cards would be part of the contract from the beginning. Who had oversight of the contract between NH and LHS? How much of what is charged for those cards is over and above actual cost? Does the ESS optical scan use the same kind of cards? If I follow some of John Gideon's work on Votersunite correctly, seems Oklahoma bought the systems and booted the company out. So those cards don't have to be programmed by a private company, do they? Wonder what the cost would be to have some competent people at the state/county level vs. paying on the contract to a private firm year after year....

COMMENT #55 [Permalink]

... M. L. Cook said on 1/17/2008 @ 10:37 am PT...





RanDiv said in #53. This is a great post. "Now that a recount is taking place, the original computer hack (if any) is no longer sufficient to perpetrate fraud. In order to thwart a recount, some form of (old fashion) physical ballot box stuffing would have to occur --- in order to get the actual ballots to line up with a false (if it happened) reported count." This is why all the experts are screaming about "chain of custody" --- any fraud will be uncovered UNLESS someone is given (or has already had) opportunity to stuff the ballot boxes after the election but before the recount." "Think about the amount of work that would have to be done to "stuff the ballot box"? We are not taking about just one race, but SEVERAL RACES are on the ballot. That means that they would have to be sorted out in groups and then duplicate the ballot with a change in one race, while others left unchanged. Otherwise, the totals from the other races would not add up. The amount time, the shear number of people that it would take, would make this an impossible feat to pull off. 10 counties, 301 precincts, with who knows how many workers ect. You can't keep that many people quite.

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]

... Savantster said on 1/17/2008 @ 10:48 am PT...





NONE, it seems you're right, after being sentenced to 18 months in prison, they plead to 6 months probation. .. I think it's time to see who paid for their legal fees and got them off scott free for blowing election integrity. follow the money.. What a terrible country we live in where we allow some people to walk free after destroying our Democracy but put people in prison for a long time for smoking a joint. How disgusting that the rule of law only applies in full to the poorest of us, while the richest aren't tethered to any law. People need to wake the hell up!.. get out there and get rid of your crap paying job and RUN FOR OFFICE! and not just President.. Get these corrupted assholes like Gardner who doesn't care about Democracy OUT of office! .. If WE, the PEOPLE, don't start taking back our country, we'll lose it completely. Making noise and going to court isn't working because those in power are given a pass for their crimes. .. the only chance is to climb into the beast and change it from the inside out.

COMMENT #57 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean in FL-13 said on 1/17/2008 @ 11:03 am PT...





John~ Without knowing how many BALLOTS were available/ printed/ re-printed/ left blank, and who had access to them and when--hell, they can (and HAVE) just toss the REAL BALLOTS right into the trash/ shred them/ not sign off on them/ invalidate them, whatever--and then PRESENT THE FALSE BALLOTS FOR A "PARIAL" (loaded) RECOUNT with percentages that "match" the "official" results. This is why the recording of the SEAL NUMBERS on ELECTION NIGHT/ COMPARING THOSE ORIGINAL SEAL NUMBERS in a recount to see that they match is SO very critical to the process. Without proof that these are the ORIGINAL ballots--the whole thing is moot. Just a dog n' pony show for the (limited) press and handful of citizens who attend to reassure them that all is well.

Susan Pynchon call it "SECURITY THEATER"... The fact that SEAL numbers are not being recorded/ poll tapes were not signed (Susan Pynchon has observed and objected to this again and again here in Florida), in her words "invalidates the entire process." GREAT 10 min video of the AMAZING Susan Pynchon taking on SARASOTA's S.O.E. Kathy Dent DURING RECOUNT re: THIS VERY issue here: "KATHY DENT DEFIES DEMOCRACY"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQv7CmBp5kk

This clip will drop your jaw. Pynchon is my Wonder-Woman. Tenacious Pepper-Pot in the body of a charm-school instructor; a mannered Lady of the High Court who can recite ELECTION LAW and always has JUST the right STATUTE dog-earred at her fingertips. I just watched this clip of her again recently/ still makes me cry...Proof of concept: ONE PERSON can completely clean up the process/ call attention to and expose these gross violations of the law--just by WATCHING THEM. When I heard that Mrs. Pynchon is on the ground in N.H. along with Mrs. Harris, I slept for the first time since last Tuesday. (Another stunning clip featuring the amazing workd of Mrs. Pynchon, for those who are interested or haven't seen, is here:) "DENT DENIES TIES (to ES&S)/ Revised w/ NEW LIES"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFEgYIHsM8w

(...In this stunning example of chutzpah, Kathy Dent claims there is "no evidence" of her blatant, shameless ties to Election Systems and Software--the voting machine vendor that produced the now notorious whopping 18, 412 undervote in Sarasota County's 2006 Congressional Election. NO EVIDENCE?...Well, we have some.)

COMMENT #58 [Permalink]

... jenese said on 1/17/2008 @ 11:24 am PT...





all I want to know is that since the 2000 elections when it became clear that vote rigging was in place, whats it going to take for the american people to stand up and shout FOUL is the myth of democracy to well entrenched for truth to be admitted the biggest so called democracy in the world lauds it over the rest of the world with its rhetoric and yet all evidence for the past eight years proves that elections over there are rigged beyond doubt now....the NH is just icing on the cake - meaning the whole sour thing is revealing itself what is it going to take before Americans actually get angry enough to stand up and put a stop to it - clearly the rest of the world is waiting and watching for some real action from the american people

COMMENT #59 [Permalink]

... Stu said on 1/17/2008 @ 11:36 am PT...





Politics is their game you have to play by their rules if you play. They have been "stealing" the election for many decades. Just as their "commissions" find for the politicians they are suppose to investigate, so will this. A politician is a politician. Politics, etc is a many sided coin. You can "choose" which side you want, but it is still the same coin. They have been promising "change" for many decades now. The only change we have is for the worse. It is like watching a movie every two years and expecting to to be different. Unfortunately it is a movie instead of reality. As long as people keep buying into the movie they will keep playing it. Time to wake up and turn the movie off.

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]

... Sonny W said on 1/17/2008 @ 12:02 pm PT...





WAKE UP PEOPLE!!

Your vote does not count, it never has!

Unless you demand action and even if you demand action nothing will be done about it. Alert your local news stations if your state uses a machine to count votes, ANY MACHINE!!! Votes must be hand counted in full view of the public with the results posted in plain sight. We must demand revolution and demand our liberties be restored, and we must do it today, for tommorow will be to late!

Revolution 2008

COMMENT #61 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/17/2008 @ 1:05 pm PT...





Something else to worry about at the same time. As people get better at organizing, they try to takr away our tools. "Firm wants to charge for 'usage'rather than flat fee. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22707271/

COMMENT #62 [Permalink]

... Diane E said on 1/17/2008 @ 1:13 pm PT...





The whole reason for Hillary's "amazing comeback"! It's so amazing it's unbelievable. Really UNbelievable. The fix is in for Hillary. I'd be willing to bet that Obama really won NH and not the Republican Ice Queen.

COMMENT #63 [Permalink]

... elliott said on 1/17/2008 @ 1:31 pm PT...





The only thing more "amazing" is that no one, but no one is discussing this except right here! Keep yelling, cause NH voters may be the fulcrum to tip this balance to justice. We are almost over the edge......thanks for fighting!!!

COMMENT #64 [Permalink]

... Sandi said on 1/17/2008 @ 2:07 pm PT...





Why is this NOT on the news? This is election FRAUD. This is our election. What is being done about it?

COMMENT #65 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/17/2008 @ 2:31 pm PT...





Best article outside Bradblog and oped news on this yet is from Global Research. They believe that John Kerry endorsed Obama out of synpathy or solidarity with a co-victim of election chicanery. They also see a Karl Rove and Dick Morris connection. They think Kucinich is making some in that camp uncomfortable right now. http://www.globalresearc...80111&articleId=7779 (This is all their speculation, by the way.)

COMMENT #66 [Permalink]

... Reader said on 1/17/2008 @ 2:36 pm PT...





It's heartening to see that in a poll on DailyKos 86% of the people there think the recount was a good idea. Just goes to show how out of touch markos and the name calling suck ups who act as his storm troopers are with the average kossack. People we need to start leaving that site and let that guy get a real job.

COMMENT #67 [Permalink]

... danielle said on 1/17/2008 @ 2:46 pm PT...





reader, i agree with you . .but i'm not leaving that site. i want stick around to watch markos aquiesce to the majority of us who have functioning bullshit detectors. over 700 comments in that diary today and counting. the naysayers are so outnumbered that its edifying to watch them basically STFU.

COMMENT #68 [Permalink]

... Pat #1 said on 1/17/2008 @ 2:56 pm PT...





#35 None Jeez, buddy. I was being sarcastic. I like how you tote around here like a god feeling the need to correct people at every turn. Think before you spout off like that.

COMMENT #69 [Permalink]

... Mike Stacks said on 1/17/2008 @ 4:23 pm PT...





Does anyone think this is important?? I urge everyone who reads articles like this (which can be backed up with facts) PLEASE forward this to every News outlet that exists to try and bring the reality of this treasonous behavior to light for all to see instead of only being read by like-minded folks like you and me. If only a revolution would start.... Paul

COMMENT #70 [Permalink]

... Kevin said on 1/17/2008 @ 5:54 pm PT...





Crap! I just looked at the totals on the sos recount page and they are obviously showing change that is...insignificant! I'm rooting for Obama (and/ or Edwards) as much as the next guy, but lets not be stupid. Unless something real turns up I'm inclined to write this off as much ado about nothing. Oh, and I so want to believe... but c'mon... this isn't working.

COMMENT #71 [Permalink]

... poe said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:21 pm PT...





The hand count seems to be giving Queen Hillary of the Borg collective a larger share of the votes!?! Oh, what a tangled web of intrigue I imagine. "Is Dennis Kucinich walking into a trap?" Well, for the moment, I have faith in Dennis to come through. What a loser!!!!!!!!!

COMMENT #72 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:43 pm PT...





The whole voting system is CRAP! And we have a bunch of CRAP running this country, FROM BOTH PARTIES! What a JOKE! All those soldiers died for NOTHING! Spreading "democracy"??? What a JOKE!

COMMENT #73 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:45 pm PT...





All this "news" about the "election" and "campaigns" is a dog-and-pony show!

COMMENT #74 [Permalink]

... MrBill123 said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:48 pm PT...





Folks, these machines by law are suppose to count within .002% of the actual vote. Over 90% of the the recounts do not match up and are nowhere near the requirements specified by statute. Not even counting the potential for hacks, stuffed ballots, or any other trick these machines are a laughing stocking. This is prima facia evidence that these machines do not operate in accordance with the law. Even is discounting human error issues, I wager than when this is done, atleast 75% of the machines will have atleast a .25% error rate.

Adding issues of custody and unaccounted for memory cards, this has basically destroyed any credibilty these machines have. Press now!!! Dont let up on anyone who still supports this process or the crooks that have sold it, used it and benefited from it.

COMMENT #75 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/17/2008 @ 6:49 pm PT...





...then we'll see, "Electronic voting went smoothly in New Hampshire" in the corporate-controlled mainstream media!

COMMENT #76 [Permalink]

... Neal said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:17 pm PT...





#13, my sentiments exactly! I say we throw these damned machines into our nearest body of water and let people do the counting! Interesting that they have enough volunteers to count the votes...so why not just scrap the damned machines? I know I for one would be happy to hand count votes!!

COMMENT #77 [Permalink]

... counter said on 1/17/2008 @ 9:26 pm PT...





BILL4 - It seems there may be a better way to express the difference in % as you have it. (Thanks for crunching the numbers by the way - it satisfied my curiosity!) I took a look at the data as of O:10 EST 1/18/07, and I see that Hillary Clinton had: original: 17983

recount: 17971 this leaves us with a minute difference =

COMMENT #78 [Permalink]

... the_zapkitty said on 1/18/2008 @ 2:32 am PT...





... Kevin erred thusly... "... Unless something real turns up I'm inclined to write this off as much ado about nothing. Oh, and I so want to believe... but c'mon... this isn't working." 1. Your problem seems to be that you missed the point of the recount entirely. It's not a matter of what you or anyone else wanted to believe... it's a question of actually counting the damn votes. 2. They're not finished yet. 3. Even at this stage the recount has shown that the machines are failing to meet legal standards and the recount has also given insight into serious issues with New Hampshire election practices.

COMMENT #79 [Permalink]

... Lawrence Ashdown said on 1/18/2008 @ 6:21 am PT...





Why ahould any candidate have to pay for fraud being exposed. If fraud was committed it should be placed on the shoulders of the ones who were responsible for it. That is the only way to prevent it from becoming a habit.OBE2E

COMMENT #80 [Permalink]

... Rashien said on 1/18/2008 @ 7:55 am PT...





You guys have GOT to read this BlackBoxVoting Investigates: New England voting machine firm executive has criminal record

http://www.democracyforn...shire.com/node/view/5317 Our voting rights have been seriously eroded. Question is? How do we stop it?

COMMENT #81 [Permalink]

... Kevin Malone said on 1/18/2008 @ 8:04 am PT...





The results posted so far for NH show that the Hillary vote was consistently undercounted at least in Hillsborough County (with the exception of Ward 5 which is so far off I dont know what to do with it). If the machine error is random...there should be as many overcounts as undercounts...but instead 15/16 of the errors were undercounts. Looks like the same trend holds for Edwards or Obama within reason. In short, the machines do not count all votes and anyone who says they do is blowing smoke up your a....

COMMENT #82 [Permalink]

... Bev Harris said on 1/18/2008 @ 8:05 am PT...





You'll want to see the latest article at Black Box Voting The ballots box seals are removable and can be taken off and reaffixed. They are like labels. Thousands of ballots arrived in the counting room with slits in the box. We were told not to worry about this because the (removable, I call it a "Post-It") seal was on the top of the box. The slits were also obvious in ballots being removed from the delivery van. The ballots are not "transported by the state police" as the administrative procedures state. They are transported by two guys named Butch and Hoppy, who travel in a white state van. A single policeman follows the van. Susan Pynchon and I visited towns due for pickup. We visited two towns. There were no slits in the ballot boxes. We carefully videotaped the ballot boxes in the van as they were doing pickup. Those close to the window had no slits (this was early in the run). As they were driving rhrough a particularly rural area, in a place where there was no building, in a pullout area from the road, a green SUV was waiting. They had been speeding, but Susan Pynchon kept up with them, so we were right behind them when they reached the point of meeting the green SUV. One of them got out, went over to the driver, said something, then they went one way and the SUV headed the other. Not necessarily important,but it underlines the importance of seeing where the van actually goes and who it meets on the way. The ballot boxes we had videotaped in the van were not delivered until after dark when almost everyone had gone home. We waited. The ballots arrived with no slits in them. After much huddling, they decided to break with earlier procedures for this set of ballots. They decided not to put them in the vault. Sally Castleman from EDA and I were there. We weren't about to leave until they put them in the vault. They never did. They left them in the counting room with no keycard access monitoring. Very bizarre day.

COMMENT #83 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/18/2008 @ 9:05 am PT...





many if not most of the boxes scheduled to be counted today had slits in them.

Slits in them!?

No chain of custody, means that even the recounts can't be trusted.

If a box has a freaking slit in it, those ballots are DONE . TOASTED . FINISHED . NULLIFIED No? Why not then? You tell me why a b0rked chain of custody is supposed to be legitimate, or official!? Of course this is just my OPINION The trolls will just come out of the woodwork and attack Bev for this information. (Bless you Bev!) Those trolls ain't done a damn thing for our Constitutional Republic lately. Maybe helped the corporate media to publish lies and propaganda. If anything.

COMMENT #84 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/18/2008 @ 9:11 am PT...





A Zorro style protection would leave us the name of the officer/motorcycle cop. And his report. Two guys in a van, come on...Ren and Stimpy?? Did they stop at the local fast mart for some beers and razor blades along the way? Just fucking asking man... Again bless you Bev!

COMMENT #85 [Permalink]

... Stu said on 1/18/2008 @ 10:02 am PT...





Come on people. They have been "stealing" elections for many decades, yet you still play their game. Since it is their game, you have to play by their rules if you play. Politics is like watching a movie every two years and expecting it to be different each time. It is a movie instead of reality. Voting is only one of many symptoms of a much larger problem. Symptoms are a nuisance but the problem is what will kill you.

COMMENT #86 [Permalink]

... JustRite said on 1/18/2008 @ 2:27 pm PT...





A process has already been undertaken to correct voting fraud. If you are REALLY wanting to stop voting fraud, get involved with this group that is trying to do something about it. Thanks... http://www.wethepeoplefo...ATE/Update2007-11-06.htm

COMMENT #87 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean in FL-13 said on 1/18/2008 @ 6:22 pm PT...





Hey, JUSTRITE! Glad you linked to that...I'm a plaintiff!

COMMENT #88 [Permalink]

... Fred said on 1/19/2008 @ 8:40 pm PT...





We really need to go back to hand counted paper ballots......period

COMMENT #89 [Permalink]

... Guy Felton, Reno Nevada said on 1/20/2008 @ 9:23 am PT...





We can have either honest elections (paper ballots, hand marked, hand counted) or we can have machine elections. We can not have both.

COMMENT #90 [Permalink]

... Stu said on 1/20/2008 @ 10:58 am PT...





Actually there was a lot of fraud before there were electronic machines and there will always be fraud as long as we keep playing their game.

COMMENT #91 [Permalink]

... Phil A said on 1/26/2008 @ 9:26 pm PT...