Whos winning this agruement Jimmie or luty if you had to pick a side: "LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Hello
J
Jimmie

world conquest is bad in paradox games.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Why is that?
J
Jimmie

No country historically even got half way + its unfun to conquer countries with 2 guys defending while you have a giant army for 2 hours straight. Pretty much in simple terms it isnt historical or realistic. nor is it fun.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

    No country historically even got half way

The Mongols, Romans, Ottomans, Umayyads, Abbasids, Macedonians, Mauryans, Qing dynasty, and probably more disagree.
J
Jimmie

They didnt get half way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires British empire owned 26.35% which is the closest anyone has ever gotten. and thats not even 50%
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Those are the largest empires ever, but there have still been quite a few that have gotten close. The Mongols got all of Eurasia, the Romans got most of Europe and North Africa, the Umayyads got all of North Africa, Iberia, and Central Asia, etc.

I'd say that's getting halfway.
J
Jimmie

The mongols only had 17.81% Romans only 3.71% And the Umayyads had 8.24% Thats not 50%
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

The Mongols conquered most of Eurasia and only got 17.81%? I've got to question that data.
J
Jimmie

Most sources put it around 17-18% https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/world-history-project-ap/xb41992e0ff5e0f09:unit-2-networks-of-exchange/xb41992e0ff5e0f09:2-1the-mongol-empire/a/read-written-in-the-stars-secrets-of-the-mongol-empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Even if it was only 18%, it's still a massive land area. I don't see any reason why those figures discount the Mongols as a counterexample to the idea that no one ever got half way to world conquest.
J
Jimmie

Because it isnt even half way. and by the time it was 18% the mongols were already overextended. imagine making ie like 25%. yet alone 50.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

    Because it isnt even half way

18% is still pretty damn close to halfway.
J
Jimmie

18% Isnt even half way to half way.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Close enough that saying

    No country historically even got half way

is definitely not true.
J
Jimmie

It is. Even a mongol-british empire union would only hold 43%. excluding overlapping lands. Still not half way. You can add the ROMANS to that union and it'd only be 46 Then you can Then you can add the German colonial empire and get to 48. Then add the napoleonic empire. and finally make it to 49. Then add the Third Portuguese Empire aND YOU FINALLY make it to 50. Thats how many empires it takes combined to make it to 50. Now think. About it for a second. It takes all these historical empires COMBINED just to get to 50. And your trying to say doubling that is possible. Yeah i dont really think so.
(edited)
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

World conquest in game isn't about reaching a literal exact 50.00% of the world.
(edited)
J
Jimmie

In the game most people consider world conquest 100%. which would be even more impossible irl.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

And yet the Mongols, Romans, and Umayyads came close to 50%. Which shows that world conquest in game isn't really all that unrealistic.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

It still doesn't sound very realistic for a major power to go halfway around the world and only conquer 17.8% of it. That's a huge amount of land. And if that figure does include places like Siberia, then a major power like the Mongols would have had more like 50% of civilisation (the inhabited land area).

And given the vast amount of territory and military manpower the Mongols controlled, why would overextension be such a problem?
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Getting 50% of the world is a hell of a lot closer to 100% than getting 10% is though. It's a much more plausible result given the right conditions.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

A lot of people treat getting half the world as "world conquest" so in some definitions, the Mongols count. You could also just say that the Romans controlled "half the civilised world" or some such, which is also true.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

If the AI was actually competent like a real world military would be then the historical conquests that were close to taking over half of the world would be near-impossible to repeat. I don't think a world conquest in the style of historical expansions up to the modern day is remotely feasible, but something in the area of the Mongol or Roman empires would perhaps not be completely impossible with the right technology and circumstances.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Yes, but in practice it's impossible to reach an exact 100%, due to areas which are just wasteland and uncolonised land.

The point is that in history countries have gotten close enough to halfway that reaching the in-game threshold of "world conquest" wouldn't be unthinkable.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

Then the game isn't realistic. In a realist game world conquest should be impossible.
L
LutyForLiberty
c.ai

People do consider 100% to be world conquest in game. I have to say that I think the idea of saying that 18% isn't close to halfway is still rather ludicrous though."