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r/mensa
•
1 day ago
Electrical_Camel3953

LLMs are raising “IQ”
Mensan input wanted
A person with a paid GPT account is way more capable than a person without one. A person with google search only is more capable than just a person alone. And a GPT is an order of magnitude better than google search.

So then, if you’re not using GPT, you’re falling behind. This is true in all aspects of life: work, hobbies, interests, relationships, mental health.

And rather than argue with someone who doesn’t see its value, just move on!

This is functionally like having a higher IQ.


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jzorbino
•
1d ago
•
No it’s not at all. This is a better fit for r/im14andthisisdeep



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
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1d ago
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u/bitspace avatar
bitspace
•
1d ago
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Jimmyrustler
No.

You've been mesmerised by stochastic parrots.



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Electrical_Camel3953
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1d ago
•
When you say 'no' does that mean you have the capacity to understand that I'm wrong, or that you don't have the capacity to know that I'm right?



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u/bitspace avatar
bitspace
•
1d ago
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Jimmyrustler
It means that I have a fairly decent understanding of how the technology works, and that it is very easy to be fooled into overestimating the capabilities of the technology at first blush.

To answer your question more directly: you're mistaken. However, you're far from alone in your assessment. There are some very smart people with a lot of experience and education specifically in the field who are either fooled themselves or have a vested interest in less knowledgeable people being fooled, and are thus banging the drum of superhuman capabilities that simply don't exist, and probably won't ever.



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
1d ago
•
What have you tried to do with an LLM that doesn’t wow you?



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u/bitspace avatar
bitspace
•
1d ago
•
Jimmyrustler
I use them extensively as part of my workflow for lots of things, but mostly in my job as a software engineer/architect. I use GitHub Copilot in my day job and Gemini Code Assist for my side work. I use several of the chatbot interfaces (Gemini, Claude, Perplexity, and once in a while ChatGPT) as rubber ducks. I write little utilities that make calls to the (very expensive) API's.

They are useful for helping to flesh out approaches to problems, but they have to be treated like grade school children who have learned how to read an encyclopedia. Absolutely nothing they produce should be taken at face value, and always need double checking. Sometimes it's much simpler and more effective to just do an old fashioned internet search.



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Electrical_Camel3953
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1d ago
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So you use LLMs extensively for their time saving value only? I've found chatGPT to be very insightful in answering what I need in various topics. And when it assumes that I don't have background information and it gives it to me, it is always correct.

Bottom line, for me (and others), it is decidedly making me more capable.

Apparently it does not for you.



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u/bitspace avatar
bitspace
•
1d ago
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Jimmyrustler
They're useful tools when used appropriately and with the proper expectations. They're literally statistical models that predict text patterns based on previously seen patterns. Those previously seen patterns are a large volume of textual data scraped from the internet.

The entire design of the model is to make up bullshit. Sometimes the bullshit reads good enough to impress the consumer.



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Electrical_Camel3953
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•
17h ago
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That's not the entire design of the model because the way I use it, I would never characterize the output as made up bullshit.

That's too bad your experience hasn't been good.


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Jasper-Packlemerton
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1d ago
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Mensan
Absolutely not. ChatGPT is garbage. Even the paid one.



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Electrical_Camel3953
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•
1d ago
•
I can tell you with certainty that for me it is 100% NOT garbage.



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Jasper-Packlemerton
•
1d ago
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Mensan
I get so much submitted to me that is clearly AI garbage. I have just about every paid AI sub you can think of, I've seen them all. They're all garbage.

It's very good at filling a blank page to get you started. But that's it. If you haven't got the wherewithal to at least edit the AI, it will do very little for you.

It's obvious AI garbage. Like a lot of the longer posts on this forum.



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Electrical_Camel3953
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•
1d ago
•
Ok so, what specifically are you prompting with, where you get garbage out?



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Jasper-Packlemerton
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1d ago
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Mensan
It doesn't matter.I read at least 10 AI submissions a day. You can tell, because it's garbage. I don't know what to tell you. You might think it's great, but whoever you are giving it to will know it's AI garbage. Immediately.



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Electrical_Camel3953
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•
1d ago
•
Have you heard the phrase “garbage in, garbage out”? What goes in matters.



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Jasper-Packlemerton
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1d ago
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Mensan
Sure. Maybe you're the one true AI whisperer in the hot piles of garbage.



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
1d ago
•
Are you going to share your prompt that gives you AI garbage or not?



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Jasper-Packlemerton
•
1d ago
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Mensan
What prompt? Have you read or understood anything here?



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
1d ago
•
Yes, I have.


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u/Algernon_Asimov avatar
Algernon_Asimov
•
1d ago
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Mensan
And a GPT is an order of magnitude better than google search.

It might look better, but you need to go below the surface-level presentation to see if the information being presented by a text-generating algorithm is actually correct.

I've seen GPT-based search results provide titles and authors of academic papers that simply don't exist - not the papers, and not even the authors in most cases. Where's the benefit of that? How does that make someone smarter?



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uniquelyavailable
•
1d ago
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does bullshit somehow not also exist in google search? simply knowing that gpt is prone to hallucination is enough to warrant crosschecking the information it provides. using gpt to isolate points of interest for further research is more beneficial than not.


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Electrical_Camel3953
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•
1d ago
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Getting hallucinations does not make someone smarter. I've asked it about legal cases, and its citations and interpretation of the cases has always been correct.



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GainsOnTheHorizon
•
9h ago
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/29/canada-lawyer-chatgpt-fake-cases-ai



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
8h ago
•
I realize that hallucinations exist. I’m just saying that they don’t always happen, and maybe that they are less frequent. Anyway, people need to double check everything, regardless if the response is from GPT, google, or another person


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EspaaValorum
•
20h ago
•
Mensan
A person with a paid GPT account is way more capable than a person without one

No, it's just a person with a paid GPT account. An idiot could have a paid GPT account, but that doesn't make that person smarter.

Your premise is basically: If I have a smart friend of whom I can ask questions, it raises my IQ.



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
17h ago
•
yes and no.

a low capability person with a GPT will still produce low quality output.

but if you have one room with a high IQ person, and another room with a not as high IQ person with a computer running chatGPT, in most cases, the room with the not as high IQ will do better than the high IQ person room



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EspaaValorum
•
17h ago
•
Mensan
You are saying that a GPT makes you more capable. But obviously that's not true. It's the GPT that's more capable, not you.

Let's say you're tasked with building something complex. You can try to do it yourself, but you lack some of the skills and expertise, so the project takes you longer, you may make mistakes etc. Or you can hire an expert, and give them the tasks you don't know how to do well etc, and now the project gets done faster and with fewer mistakes. The latter scenario doesn't make you, personally, any more capable. You just delegated. Sure, you can say that's more effective, has a better outcome etc. But that's not your argument.

Likewise, using a GPT doesn't make you, personally, smarter or boost your IQ. It's just outsourcing the things you cannot do yourself as well/fast to something that can.


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uniquelyavailable
•
1d ago
•
lots of bots in here disagreeing with your fundamentally valid point in that access to better information assists with cognitive process flow. chatgpt is a very strong way to access and search information. of course it is recommended to get additional sources of information to back the claims and expand on generalized perception of a topic. i think it's fair to say using gpt is transformative in more than one way.



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u/mugsoh avatar
mugsoh
•
21h ago
•
Mensan
Bots with Mensa flair? Very unlikely, you have to submit evidence to have the flair applied to your account.


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u/mugsoh avatar
mugsoh
•
19h ago
•
Mensan
A machine cannot raise an innate ability. It can possibly mimic it, that is debatable, but it cannot make you more intelligent.



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
17h ago
•
of course not. thats what I meant by "functionally like"


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GainsOnTheHorizon
•
8h ago
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I don't trust anecdotes from random posters. Can you cite research showing a "person with a paid GPT account" has better "relationships"? (Quotes from your post)



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Electrical_Camel3953
OP
•
8h ago
•
Fair question. No i don’t know of such research. It seems reasonable to me though, considering the ability for a GPT to respond helpfully to questions about the user and about social scenarios


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u/mvanvrancken avatar
mvanvrancken
•
4h ago
•
I find the LLM's to be deeply useful and interesting, but I think they have the alarming potential (which has already been realized, sadly) to "cut in" to human ingenuity and creativity, and make them the products of "pressing a button."

As I've been saying now for a while, AI was supposed to do work while I do art, but instead it does art while I do work.


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