Meeting transcript:
speaker: A
text: Ah , so comfortable .
speaker: F
text: Smooth .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Good .
speaker: A
text: I know that he 's going to like , Taiwan and other places to eat .
speaker: A
text: So .
speaker: D
text: On ?
speaker: D
text: Am I on ?
speaker: D
text: I think I 'm on ?
speaker: A
text: Yep . Yep .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Good . Good .
speaker: B
text: Actually <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Bye .
speaker: F
text: I just had one of the most frustrating meetings of my career .
speaker: D
text: You a
speaker: A
text: It 's definitely not the most frustrating meeting I 've ever had .
speaker: D
text: You 're <disfmarker> you remember you 're being recorded at this point .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Oh , yeah , so , w we didn't yet specify with whom .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: But um .
speaker: E
text: Uh , right .
speaker: E
text: Uh .
speaker: A
text: So that 's why Keith and I are going to be a little dazed for the first half m the meeting .
speaker: F
text: Huh .
speaker: F
text: Yeah , I 'm just gonna sit here
speaker: F
text: and
speaker: E
text: Right . Yeah , I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I avoided that as long as I could for you guys ,
speaker: F
text: growl .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: but , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: For which we thank you , by the way .
speaker: A
text: Are very appreciative ,
speaker: A
text: yeah .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: I know you were <disfmarker> you were doing that ,
speaker: F
text: but , anyway .
speaker: D
text: Oh yeah , how di how d exactly did , uh , that paper lead to anti - lock brakes ?
speaker: F
text: Oh , I could tell you had a rough day , man !
speaker: D
text: Nah .
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: D
text: I love that story .
speaker: F
text: Yeah ,
speaker: F
text: it 's a great story .
speaker: C
text: OK .
speaker: F
text: Oh my goodness .
speaker: C
text: Oh yeah , um , Liz suggested we could start off by uh , doing the digits all at the same time .
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: D
text: All at the same time .
speaker: D
text: I don't know if <disfmarker> I would get distracted and confused , probably .
speaker: E
text: e
speaker: A
text: Really ?
speaker: A
text: Do we have to like , synchronize ?
speaker: E
text: Well , I think you 're supposed to <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Are you being silly ?
speaker: E
text: OK . We can do this .
speaker: D
text: Oh wait do we have t
speaker: E
text: Everybody 's got different digits ,
speaker: E
text: right ?
speaker: F
text: Uh .
speaker: C
text: Yep .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , do we have to time them at the same time or just overlapping <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: You 're kidding .
speaker: E
text: No .
speaker: C
text: No , no , just <disfmarker> just start whenever you want .
speaker: E
text: e
speaker: E
text: yeah , the
speaker: A
text: And any rate ?
speaker: F
text: Alright .
speaker: E
text: Well , they <disfmarker> they have s they have the close talking microphones for each of us ,
speaker: A
text: Yeah , that 's true .
speaker: E
text: so <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Alright .
speaker: E
text: yeah , there 's separate channels .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: So when I say
speaker: F
text: Just plug one ear .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: You lose .
speaker: F
text: OK , bye !
speaker: F
text: That was a great meeting !
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: So - <vocalsound> Now , uh , why ?
speaker: D
text: Alright .
speaker: C
text: Just to save time .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: Does matter for them .
speaker: A
text: Are we gonna start all our meetings out that way from now on ?
speaker: E
text: No .
speaker: A
text: Oh . Too bad .
speaker: A
text: I kinda like it .
speaker: F
text: Well , could we ?
speaker: D
text: It 's strangely satisfying .
speaker: A
text: Yeah . It 's a ritual .
speaker: D
text: Are we to r Just to make sure I know what 's going on , we 're talking about Robert 's thesis proposal today ?
speaker: D
text: Is that
speaker: C
text: We could .
speaker: D
text: true ?
speaker: A
text: We are ?
speaker: C
text: We might .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Well , you <disfmarker> you had s you said there were two things that you might wanna do .
speaker: D
text: Is <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: One was rehearse your i i talk <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Oh yes , and that too .
speaker: C
text: Not <disfmarker> not rehearse ,
speaker: C
text: I mean , I have just not spent any time on it ,
speaker: C
text: so I can show you what I 've got , get your input on it , and maybe some suggestions ,
speaker: C
text: that would be great .
speaker: C
text: And the same is true for the proposal .
speaker: C
text: I will have time to do some revision and some additional stuff on various airplanes and trains .
speaker: C
text: So , um .
speaker: C
text: I don't know how much of a chance you had to actually read it
speaker: A
text: I haven't looked at it
speaker: C
text: because <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: yet ,
speaker: C
text: but you could always send me comments per electronic mail
speaker: A
text: but I will .
speaker: C
text: and they will be incorporated .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: Um , <vocalsound> the <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: It basically says , well " this is construal " ,
speaker: C
text: and then it continues to say that one could potentially build a probabilistic relational model that has some general , domain - general rules
speaker: C
text: how things are construed ,
speaker: C
text: and then the idea is to use ontology , situation , user , and discourse model to instantiate elements in the classes of the probabilistic relational model <pause> to do some inferences in terms of what is being construed as what
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: C
text: in our beloved tourism domain .
speaker: C
text: But , with a focus on
speaker: A
text: Can I s
speaker: F
text: I think I need a copy of this , yes .
speaker: A
text: Sorry .
speaker: C
text: Hmm ?
speaker: F
text: I is there an extra copy around ?
speaker: D
text: OK , we can <disfmarker> we can <disfmarker> we can pass <disfmarker> pass my , uh <disfmarker> we can pass my extra copy around .
speaker: A
text: Uh . He sent it .
speaker: A
text: OK . You can keep it .
speaker: F
text: Alrigh
speaker: D
text: Er , actually , my only copy , now that I think about it ,
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: but . I already read half of it ,
speaker: C
text: Um , I don't <disfmarker> I , uh <disfmarker> I don't need it .
speaker: D
text: so it 's OK .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: Um , actually this is the <disfmarker> the newest version after your comments ,
speaker: C
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Yeah , no I s I s I see this has got the castle in it , and stuff like that .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yep .
speaker: D
text: Oh , maybe the version I didn't have
speaker: D
text: that I <disfmarker> mine <disfmarker> the w
speaker: D
text: did the one you sent on the email have the <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: That was the most recent one ?
speaker: E
text: Uh , yeah , I think so .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: Yep .
speaker: D
text: Cuz I read halfway but I didn't see a castle thing .
speaker: A
text: I 'm changing this .
speaker: A
text: Just so you know .
speaker: C
text: Yeah ,
speaker: A
text: But , anyway .
speaker: C
text: um , if you would have checked your email you may have received a note from Yees asking you to send me the , uh , up - to - d
speaker: A
text: Oh . Oh , sorry .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: Sorry .
speaker: C
text: current formalism thing that you presented .
speaker: A
text: OK . I will .
speaker: A
text: OK . OK .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: But for this it doesn't matter .
speaker: C
text: But , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: We can talk about it later .
speaker: A
text: That 's not even ready ,
speaker: A
text: so . Um ,
speaker: A
text: OK ! Go on t to , uh , whatever .
speaker: C
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I 'm making changes .
speaker: A
text: " Don't worry about that . "
speaker: A
text: OK . Mmm - mmm .
speaker: A
text: Oh ! OK , sorry ,
speaker: A
text: go on .
speaker: C
text: And any type of comment whether it 's a spelling or a syntax or
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: There 's only one " S " in " interesting " .
speaker: C
text: readability <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Hmm ?
speaker: F
text: There 's only one " S " in " interesting " . On page five .
speaker: C
text: Interesting .
speaker: A
text: Anyway .
speaker: A
text: And y uh , email any time ,
speaker: A
text: but most usefully before <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: The twenty - first I 'm assuming .
speaker: A
text: The twenty - first ?
speaker: C
text: Twenty - ninth .
speaker: E
text: No , this is the twenty - first .
speaker: F
text: That 's <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: What ,
speaker: D
text: today 's the twenty - first ?
speaker: F
text: Well , better hurry up then !
speaker: D
text: Oh , man !
speaker: C
text: The twenty - ninth .
speaker: A
text: Before the twenty - ninth ,
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: That 's when I 'm meeting with Wolfgang Wahlster to sell him this idea .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: OK ?
speaker: C
text: Then I 'm also going to present a little talk at EML , about what we have done here
speaker: C
text: and so
speaker: C
text: of course , I 'm <disfmarker> I 'm gonna start out with this slide ,
speaker: C
text: so the most relevant aspects of our stay here ,
speaker: C
text: and um ,
speaker: C
text: then I 'm asking them to imagine that they 're standing somewhere in Heidelberg
speaker: C
text: and someone asks them in the morning <disfmarker> The Cave Forty - Five is a <disfmarker> is a well - known discotheque
speaker: C
text: which is certainly not open at that <disfmarker> that time .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: And so
speaker: C
text: they 're supposed to imagine that , you know , do they think the person wants to go there , or just know where it is ?
speaker: C
text: Uh ,
speaker: C
text: which is probably not , uh , the case in that discotheque example ,
speaker: C
text: or in the Bavaria example ,
speaker: C
text: you just want to know where it is .
speaker: C
text: And so forth .
speaker: C
text: So basically we can make a point that here is ontological knowledge
speaker: C
text: but if it 's nine <disfmarker> nine PM in the evening then the discotheque question would be , for example , one that might ask for directions instead of just location .
speaker: C
text: Um , <vocalsound> and so forth and so forth .
speaker: C
text: That 's sort of motivating it .
speaker: C
text: Then what have we done so far ?
speaker: C
text: We had our little bit of , um , um , SmartKom stuff , that we did ,
speaker: C
text: um ,
speaker: C
text: everth
speaker: F
text: Oh , you 've got the parser done .
speaker: F
text: Sorry .
speaker: C
text: That 's the <disfmarker> not the construction parser .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: That 's the , uh , tablet - based parser ,
speaker: A
text: Easy parser .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: and
speaker: C
text: the generation outputter .
speaker: D
text: Halfway done ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: That 's done .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: C
text: You have to change those strategies ,
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: right ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: That 's , ten words ?
speaker: D
text: Well , i it , you know .
speaker: D
text: Maybe twelve .
speaker: C
text: Twelve ? OK .
speaker: C
text: And , um , and Fey is doing the synthesis stuff as we speak .
speaker: C
text: That 's all about that .
speaker: C
text: Then I 'm going to talk about the data ,
speaker: C
text: you know these things about <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: uh , actually I have an example ,
speaker: C
text: probably .
speaker: C
text: Two s
speaker: C
text: Can you hear that ?
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: C
text: Or should I turn the l volume on .
speaker: A
text: I could hear it .
speaker: D
text: I I can hear it .
speaker: F
text: I heard it .
speaker: D
text: They might not hear it in the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: well maybe they will .
speaker: D
text: I don't know .
speaker: A
text: This was an actual , um , subject ?
speaker: A
text: Ah .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: Sounds like Fey .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: But they 're <disfmarker> they 're mimicking the synthesis when they speak to the computer ,
speaker: F
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: C
text: the <disfmarker> you can observe that all the time ,
speaker: F
text: Oh really .
speaker: C
text: they 're trying to match their prosody onto the machine .
speaker: F
text: Interesting .
speaker: F
text: Oh , it 's pretty slow .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , you have to <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Wh
speaker: F
text: The system breaking .
speaker: A
text: What is the s ?
speaker: A
text: Oh !
speaker: C
text: OK . And so forth and so forth .
speaker: C
text: Um , I will talk about our problems with the rephrasing ,
speaker: C
text: and how we solved it ,
speaker: C
text: and some preliminary observations ,
speaker: C
text: also , um ,
speaker: C
text: I 'm not gonna put in the figures from Liz ,
speaker: C
text: but I thought it would interesting to , uh , um , point out that it 's basically the same .
speaker: C
text: Um , as in every human - human telephone conversation , and the human - computer telephone conversation is of course quite d quite different from , uh , some first , uh , observations .
speaker: C
text: Then
speaker: C
text: sort of feed you back to our original problem
speaker: C
text: cuz , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: how to get there ,
speaker: C
text: what actually is happening there today ,
speaker: C
text: and then maybe talk about the big picture here ,
speaker: C
text: e tell a little bit <disfmarker> as much as I <pause> can about the NTL story .
speaker: C
text: I <disfmarker> I wa I do wanna , um <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: I 'm not quite sure about this , whether I should put this in ,
speaker: C
text: um , that , you know , you have these two sort of different ideas that are <disfmarker> or two different camps of people envisioning how language understanding works ,
speaker: C
text: and then , <vocalsound> talk a bit about the embodied and simulation approach favored here
speaker: C
text: and as a prelude , I 'll talk about monkeys in Italy .
speaker: C
text: And , um , Srini was gonna send me some slides
speaker: C
text: but he didn't do it ,
speaker: C
text: so from <disfmarker> but I have the paper ,
speaker: C
text: I can make a resume of that ,
speaker: C
text: and then I stole an X - schema from one of your talks I think .
speaker: A
text: Oh .
speaker: A
text: I was like , " where 'd you get that ? "
speaker: F
text: Yeah , that looks familiar .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: " Looks familiar . "
speaker: C
text: I think that 's Bergen , Chang , something , or the other .
speaker: A
text: Uh .
speaker: E
text: Whatever .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: Um , and that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: now I 'm not going to bring that .
speaker: C
text: So that 's basically what I have , so far ,
speaker: C
text: and the rest is for airplanes .
speaker: C
text: So X - schemas , then , I would like to do <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: talk about the construction aspect
speaker: C
text: and then at the end about our Bayes - net .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: C
text: End of story .
speaker: C
text: Anything I forgot that we should mention ?
speaker: C
text: Oh , maybe the FMRI stuff .
speaker: C
text: Should I mention the fact that , um , we 're also actually started <disfmarker> going to start to look at people 's brains in a more direct way ?
speaker: E
text: You certainly can .
speaker: E
text: I mean I y I you know , I don't know <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: You might just wanna like , tack that on , as a comment , to something .
speaker: E
text: Right ,
speaker: E
text: um .
speaker: C
text: " Future activities " something .
speaker: E
text: Well , the time to mention it , if you mention it , is when you talk about mirror neurons ,
speaker: E
text: then you should talk about the more recent stuff , about the kicking
speaker: E
text: and , you know , the <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: yeah , yeah <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: and <disfmarker> that the plan is to see to what extent the <disfmarker> you 'll get the same phenomena with stories about this ,
speaker: E
text: so that <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: and that we 're planning to do this ,
speaker: E
text: um ,
speaker: E
text: which , we are .
speaker: E
text: So that 's one thing .
speaker: E
text: Um .
speaker: E
text: Depends . I mean , there is a , um , whole language learning story ,
speaker: E
text: OK ?
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: which ,
speaker: E
text: uh , actually , i i
speaker: E
text: even on your five - layer slide , you <disfmarker> you 've got an old one that <disfmarker> that leaves that off .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I do have it here .
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Um .
speaker: C
text: And , of course , you know , the <disfmarker> the big picture is this bit .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: But , you know , it would <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: But I don't think I <disfmarker> I am capable of <disfmarker> of do pulling this off and doing justice to the matter .
speaker: C
text: I mean , there is interesting stuff in her terms of how language works ,
speaker: C
text: so the emergentism story would be nice to be <disfmarker> you know , it would be nice to tell people
speaker: C
text: how <disfmarker> what 's happening there ,
speaker: C
text: plus how the , uh , language learning stuff works ,
speaker: E
text: OK , so , so anyway , I <disfmarker> I agree that 's not central .
speaker: C
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: What you might wanna do is ,
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: um ,
speaker: E
text: and may not ,
speaker: E
text: but you might wanna <disfmarker> this is <disfmarker> rip off a bunch of the slides on the
speaker: E
text: anal
speaker: E
text: there <disfmarker> the <disfmarker> there <disfmarker> we 've got various i generations of slides that show language analysis , and matching to the underlying image schemas ,
speaker: E
text: and ,
speaker: E
text: um , how the construction and simulation <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: that ho that whole th
speaker: C
text: Yeah , th that <disfmarker> that 's c that comes up to the X - schema slide ,
speaker: A
text: OK , right .
speaker: C
text: so basically I 'm gonna steal that from Nancy ,
speaker: C
text: one of Nancy 's st
speaker: A
text: OK , I can give you a more recent <disfmarker> if you want <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: well , that might have enough .
speaker: C
text: Uh , I <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: yeah , but I also have stuff you <disfmarker> trash you left over ,
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: your quals and your triple - AI .
speaker: E
text: The quals w the <disfmarker> the <disfmarker> the quals slides would be fine .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: You could get it out of there , or some
speaker: A
text: Which I can even email you then ,
speaker: A
text: you know , like there probably was a little <disfmarker> few changes ,
speaker: A
text: not a big deal .
speaker: A
text: Yeah , you could steal anything you want ,
speaker: A
text: I don't care .
speaker: A
text: Which you 've already done , obviously .
speaker: A
text: So .
speaker: C
text: Well , I <disfmarker> I don't feel bad about it at all
speaker: A
text: Sorry
speaker: A
text: No , you shouldn't .
speaker: C
text: because <disfmarker> because you are on the , uh , title .
speaker: C
text: I mean on the <disfmarker> the , you 're <disfmarker> that 's <disfmarker> see , that 's you .
speaker: A
text: Oh , that 's great , that 's great .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: I 'm glad to see propagation .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: C
text: Hmm ?
speaker: C
text: Propagated ?
speaker: A
text: Yes .
speaker: C
text: I mean I might even mention that this work you 're doing is sort of also with the MPI in Leipzig ,
speaker: C
text: so .
speaker: A
text: It 's <disfmarker> it 's certainly related ,
speaker: A
text: um ,
speaker: C
text: Because , um , EML is building up a huge thing in Leipzig .
speaker: A
text: might wanna say .
speaker: A
text: Is it ?
speaker: C
text: So it <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: It 's on biocomputation . Would <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Yeah , it 's different ,
speaker: E
text: this is the , uh , DNA building , or someth the double helix building .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Kind of a different level of analysis .
speaker: E
text: The <disfmarker> yeah it was <disfmarker> it turns out that if <disfmarker> if you have multiple billions of dollars , y you can do all sorts of weird things ,
speaker: E
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Wait , they 're building a building in the shape of DNA ,
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: D
text: is that what you said ?
speaker: E
text: Roughly , yeah .
speaker: F
text: Oh ! Oh boy !
speaker: E
text: Including cr cross - bridges ,
speaker: A
text: O
speaker: E
text: and
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: F
text: That 's brilliant !
speaker: A
text: Oh my god !
speaker: F
text: Hhh .
speaker: E
text: You d you really <disfmarker> now I I spent <disfmarker> the last time I was there I spent maybe two hours hearing this story
speaker: E
text: which is , um <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Of what
speaker: D
text: Y You definitely wanna w don't wanna waste that money on research ,
speaker: A
text: the building ?
speaker: D
text: you know ?
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: That 's horrible .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: Well , no , no , y i there 's infinite money .
speaker: E
text: See
speaker: E
text: you th you th you then fill it with researchers .
speaker: A
text: And give them more money .
speaker: A
text: They just want a fun place for them to <disfmarker> to work .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: And everybody gets a trampoline in their office .
speaker: C
text: Well , the <disfmarker> the offices are actually a little <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: the ,
speaker: C
text: think of um , ramps , coming out of the double helix
speaker: C
text: and then you have these half - domes , glass half - domes ,
speaker: C
text: and the offices are in <disfmarker> in the glass half - dome .
speaker: A
text: Really ?
speaker: F
text: Alright , let 's stop talking about this .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Does it exist yet ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Uh , as a model .
speaker: A
text: They are w now building it ?
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: C
text: But I th
speaker: E
text: So , yeah , I think that 's <disfmarker> that 's a good point ,
speaker: E
text: th th that the date , the , uh ,
speaker: E
text: a lot of the <disfmarker> this is interacting with , uh , people in Italy
speaker: E
text: but also definitely the people in Leipzig
speaker: E
text: and
speaker: E
text: the <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: the b the combination of the biology and the Leipzig connection might be interesting to these guys ,
speaker: E
text: yeah .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Anyway ! Enough of that ,
speaker: E
text: let 's talk about your thesis proposal .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , if somebody has something to say .
speaker: E
text: Yep .
speaker: F
text: You might want to , uh , double - check the spellings of the authors ' names on your references ,
speaker: F
text: you had a few , uh , misspells in your slides , there .
speaker: F
text: Like I believe you had " Jackendorf " .
speaker: E
text: Um .
speaker: F
text: Uh , unless there 's a person called " Jackendorf " ,
speaker: E
text: No , no , no .
speaker: F
text: yeah .
speaker: A
text: On that one ?
speaker: F
text: But that 's the only thing I noticed in there .
speaker: A
text: In the presentation ?
speaker: F
text: In the presentation .
speaker: A
text: I 'll probably <disfmarker> I c might have <disfmarker> I 'll probably have comments for you separately ,
speaker: A
text: not important .
speaker: A
text: Anyway .
speaker: C
text: Oh , in the presentation here .
speaker: A
text: Yeah , that 's what he was talking about .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: I was ac actually worried about bibtex .
speaker: C
text: Uh . No , that 's quite possible .
speaker: C
text: That 's copy and paste from something .
speaker: E
text: So I did note
speaker: E
text: i i it looks like the , uh , metaphor didn't get in yet .
speaker: C
text: Uh , it did ,
speaker: C
text: there is a reference to Srini <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Well , s reference is one thing ,
speaker: E
text: the question is is there any place <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Oh , did you put in something about ,
speaker: A
text: Metonymy and metaphor here ,
speaker: A
text: right ?
speaker: E
text: uh , the individual ,
speaker: E
text: we 'd talked about putting in something about people had ,
speaker: E
text: uh <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Oh yeah , OK .
speaker: E
text: Good . I see where you have it .
speaker: E
text: So the top of the second <disfmarker> of pa page two you have a sentence .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: But , what I meant is , I think even before you give this , to Wahlster , uh , you should ,
speaker: E
text: unless you put it in the text ,
speaker: E
text: and I don't think it 's there yet ,
speaker: E
text: about <disfmarker> we talked about is the , um , scalability that you get by , um , combining the constructions with the general construal mechanism .
speaker: E
text: Is that in there ?
speaker: C
text: Yeah ,
speaker: C
text: mmm . Um .
speaker: E
text: Uh , OK , so where <disfmarker> where is it ,
speaker: E
text: cuz I 'll have to take a look .
speaker: C
text: Um , but I <disfmarker> I did not focus on that aspect
speaker: C
text: but , um <disfmarker> Ehhh ,
speaker: C
text: um , it 's just underneath , uh , um , that reference to metaphor .
speaker: C
text: So it 's the last paragraph
speaker: C
text: before two .
speaker: C
text: So on page two ,
speaker: C
text: um , the main focus <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Uh , OK .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: But that 's really <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: That 's not about that ,
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: is it ?
speaker: E
text: No , it <disfmarker> it <disfmarker> it s says it
speaker: E
text: but it doesn't say <disfmarker> it doesn't <disfmarker> it d it d
speaker: C
text: Why .
speaker: E
text: yeah , it doesn't give the punch line .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: Cuz let me tell the gang what I think the punch line is ,
speaker: E
text: because it 's actually important ,
speaker: E
text: which is , that , the constructions , that , uh , Nancy and Keith and friends are doing , uh , are , in a way , quite general
speaker: E
text: but cover only base cases .
speaker: E
text: And to make them apply to metaphorical cases and metonymic cases and all those things , requires this additional mechanism , of construal .
speaker: E
text: And the punch line is , he claimed , that if you do this right , you can get essentially orthogonality ,
speaker: E
text: that if you introduce a new construction at <disfmarker> at the base level , it should com uh , interact with all the metonymies and metaphors
speaker: E
text: so that all of the projections of it also should work .
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: And , similarly , if you introduce a new metaphor , it should then uh , compose with all of the constructions .
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: And it <disfmarker> to the extent that that 's true then <disfmarker> then it 's a big win over anything that exists .
speaker: D
text: So does that mean instead of having tons and tons of rules in your context - free grammar you just have these base constructs and then a general mechanism for coercing them .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: So that , you know , for example , uh , in the metaphor case , that you have a kind of direct idea of a source , path , and goal
speaker: E
text: and any metaphorical one <disfmarker> and abstract goals and all that sort of stuff <comment> <disfmarker> you can do the same grammar .
speaker: E
text: And it is the same grammar .
speaker: D
text: Mmm .
speaker: E
text: But , um ,
speaker: E
text: the trick is that the <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: the way the construction 's written it requires that the object of the preposition for example be a container .
speaker: E
text: Well , " trouble " isn't a container ,
speaker: E
text: but it gets constr construed as a c container .
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: Et cetera .
speaker: E
text: So that 's <disfmarker> that 's where this , um ,
speaker: D
text: So with construal you don't have to have a construction for every possible thing that can fill the rule .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: So 's it 's <disfmarker> it <disfmarker> it 's a very big deal , i i in this framework ,
speaker: E
text: and the thesis proposal as it stands doesn't ,
speaker: E
text: um , I don't think , say that as clearly as it could .
speaker: C
text: No , it doesn't say it at all . No .
speaker: C
text: Even though <disfmarker> <vocalsound> One could argue what <disfmarker> if there are basic cases , even .
speaker: C
text: I mean , it seems like nothing is context - free .
speaker: E
text: Oh , nothing is context - free ,
speaker: E
text: but there are basic cases .
speaker: E
text: That is , um , there are physical containers ,
speaker: E
text: there are physical paths ,
speaker: E
text: there <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: you know ,
speaker: E
text: et cetera .
speaker: C
text: But " walked into the cafe and ordered a drink , " and " walked into the cafe and broke his nose , "
speaker: C
text: that 's sort of <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Oh , it doesn't mean that they 're unambiguous .
speaker: E
text: I mean , a cafe can be construed as a container , or it can be construed you know as <disfmarker> as a obstacle ,
speaker: C
text: Mmm . Yeah .
speaker: F
text: Uh - huh .
speaker: E
text: or as some physical object .
speaker: E
text: So there are multiple construals .
speaker: E
text: And in fact that 's part of what has to be done .
speaker: E
text: This is why there 's this interaction between the analysis and the construal .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: C
text: Yep .
speaker: E
text: The b the <disfmarker> the double arrow .
speaker: C
text: Yep .
speaker: E
text: So , uh , yeah , I mean , it doesn't magically make ambiguity go away .
speaker: C
text: No .
speaker: E
text: But it does say that , uh , if you walked into the cafe and broke your nose , then you are construing the cafe as an obstacle .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: And if that 's not consistent with other things , then you 've gotta reject that reading .
speaker: C
text: Yep .
speaker: D
text: You con <disfmarker> you conditioned me with your first sentence ,
speaker: D
text: and so I thought , " Why would he walk into the cafe and then somehow break his nose ? "
speaker: F
text: He slipped on the wet floor .
speaker: D
text: uh , oh , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: You don't find that usage ,
speaker: C
text: uh <disfmarker> uh , I checked for it in the Brown national corpus .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: The " walk into it " never really means , w as in walked smack <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: But " run into " does .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , but , y y if you find " walked smacked into the cafe " or " slammed into the wall " <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Yeah , no , but " run into " does .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: Because you will find " run into , "
speaker: E
text: uh ,
speaker: D
text: Cars run into telephone poles all the time .
speaker: E
text: well , or " into the cafe " for that m
speaker: E
text: you know <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: " His car ran into the cafe . "
speaker: C
text: Yeah . Or you can run into an old friend , or run .
speaker: E
text: Well , you can " run into " in that sense too .
speaker: E
text: But , uh ,
speaker: A
text: Yeah , " run into " might even be more impact sense than , you know , container sense .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: Depends .
speaker: E
text: But <disfmarker> Like , " run into an old friend " , it probably needs its own construction .
speaker: E
text: I mean , uh , you know , George would have I 'm sure some exa complicated ex reason why it really was an instance of something else
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: and maybe it is ,
speaker: E
text: but , um ,
speaker: E
text: there are idioms
speaker: E
text: and my guess is that 's one of them ,
speaker: E
text: but , um <disfmarker> I don't know .
speaker: A
text: All contact .
speaker: A
text: I mean , there there 's contact that doesn't <disfmarker> social contact ,
speaker: A
text: whatever .
speaker: A
text: I mean .
speaker: E
text: Uh .
speaker: F
text: Sudden surprising contact ,
speaker: F
text: right ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah , but it 's <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> Right . i Yeah , it 's more <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Forceful .
speaker: F
text: But of course , no ,
speaker: F
text: i i I mean it has a life of its own .
speaker: F
text: It 's sort of partially inspired by the spatial <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Well , this is this motivated <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: but yeah <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: oh yeah , mo for sure ,
speaker: E
text: motivated ,
speaker: E
text: but then you can't parse on motivated .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: Yeah . Right .
speaker: E
text: Uh ,
speaker: A
text: Too bad .
speaker: D
text: You should get a T - shirt that says that .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: There 's <disfmarker> there 's lots of things you could make T - shirts out of ,
speaker: A
text: but , uh ,
speaker: A
text: this has gotten <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I mean wh
speaker: A
text: We don't need the words to that .
speaker: C
text: Pro - probably not your marks in the kitchen , today .
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: C
text: Not <disfmarker> not your marks .
speaker: A
text: Oh , no no no no no no no no no , we 're not going there .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: F
text: In other news .
speaker: E
text: OK , so , um ,
speaker: E
text: anything else you want to ask us about
speaker: E
text: the thesis proposal , you got <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Well ,
speaker: E
text: We could look at a particular thing and give you feedback on it .
speaker: C
text: Well there <disfmarker> actually <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: the <disfmarker> i what would have been really nice is to find an example for all of this , uh , from our domain .
speaker: C
text: So maybe if we w if we can make one up <pause> now , that would be c incredibly helpful .
speaker: A
text: So , w where it should illustrate
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: How <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: uh <disfmarker> wh when you say all this , do you mean , like , I don't know , the related work stuff ,
speaker: A
text: as well as , mappings ?
speaker: E
text: Right <disfmarker> right <disfmarker> r
speaker: C
text: w Well we have , for example , a canonical use of something
speaker: C
text: and y it 's , you know , we have some constructions
speaker: C
text: and then it 's construed as something ,
speaker: C
text: and then we <disfmarker> we may get the same constructions with a metaphorical use that 's also relevant to the <disfmarker> to the domain .
speaker: E
text: OK , f let 's <disfmarker> let 's suppose you use " in " and " on " .
speaker: E
text: I mean , that 's what you started with .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: So " in the bus " and " on the bus , "
speaker: E
text: um , that 's actually a little tricky in English
speaker: E
text: because to some extent they 're synonyms .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: I had two hours w with George on this ,
speaker: E
text: OK , what did he say .
speaker: C
text: so it ,
speaker: A
text: Did you ?
speaker: C
text: um <disfmarker> Um .
speaker: A
text: Join the club .
speaker: E
text: Right . Oh , h that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: " On the bus " is a m is a metaphorical metonymy
speaker: C
text: that relates some meta path metaphorically
speaker: C
text: and you 're on <disfmarker> on that path
speaker: C
text: and th w I mean it 's <disfmarker> he <disfmarker> there 's a platform notion ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah , I <disfmarker> I believe all that ,
speaker: E
text: it 's just <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: right ?
speaker: C
text: " he 's on the <disfmarker> standing on the bus waving to me . "
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: But th the regular as we speak " J Johno was on the bus to New York , "
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: um , uh ,
speaker: C
text: he 's <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: that 's , uh ,
speaker: C
text: what did I call it here ,
speaker: C
text: the transportation schema , something ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: where you can be on the first flight , on the second flight ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: and you can be , you know , on the wagon .
speaker: E
text: Right . So <disfmarker> so that <disfmarker> that may or may not be what you <disfmarker> what you want to do .
speaker: E
text: I mean you could do something much simpler
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: like " under the bus , " or something ,
speaker: E
text: where <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: But it 's <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> unfortunately , this is not really something a tourist would ever say .
speaker: C
text: So .
speaker: E
text: Well , unless he was repairing it or something ,
speaker: E
text: but yeah .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: But um .
speaker: E
text: Uh , but OK .
speaker: C
text: So in terms of the <disfmarker> this <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I see .
speaker: C
text: We had <disfmarker> we had <disfmarker> initially we 'd <disfmarker> started discussing the " out of film . "
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: And there 's a lot of " out of " analysis ,
speaker: C
text: so , um ,
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: could we capture that
speaker: C
text: with a different construal of <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Yeah , it 's a little <disfmarker> it 's ,
speaker: A
text: uh <disfmarker> we 've thought about it before , uh t uh <disfmarker> to use the examples in other papers ,
speaker: A
text: and it 's <disfmarker> it 's a little complicated .
speaker: F
text: Out of <disfmarker> out of film , in particular .
speaker: A
text: Cuz you 're like , it 's a state of <disfmarker> there 's resource ,
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: right ,
speaker: A
text: and like , what is film ,
speaker: A
text: the state <disfmarker> you know . You 're out of the state of having film , right ? and somehow film is standing for the re the resour the state of having some resource is just labeled as that resource .
speaker: F
text: It 's <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: yeah , I mean ,
speaker: A
text: I mean .
speaker: F
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: and plus the fact that there 's also s
speaker: A
text: It 's a little bit <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: I mean , can you say , like , " The film ran out "
speaker: F
text: you know ,
speaker: F
text: or , maybe you could say something like " The film is out "
speaker: A
text: Yeah , is film the trajector ?
speaker: F
text: so like the <disfmarker> the film went away from where it should be ,
speaker: F
text: namely with you , or something ,
speaker: F
text: right ?
speaker: F
text: You know .
speaker: F
text: The <disfmarker> the film <disfmarker> the film is gone ,
speaker: F
text: right ?
speaker: F
text: Um ,
speaker: F
text: I never really knew what was going on ,
speaker: F
text: I mean I <disfmarker> I find it sort of a little bit farfetched to say that <disfmarker> that " I 'm out of film " means that I have left the state of having film or something like that ,
speaker: A
text: It 's weird .
speaker: A
text: That <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: but .
speaker: E
text: Uh .
speaker: A
text: Or , " having " is also , um , associated with location ,
speaker: F
text: Yeah . Yeah .
speaker: A
text: right ?
speaker: A
text: so if the film left ,
speaker: A
text: you know <disfmarker> state is being near film .
speaker: C
text: So running <disfmarker> running out of something is different from being out of somewhere .
speaker: E
text: Or being out of something as , uh <disfmarker> as well .
speaker: E
text: So " running out of it " definitely has a process aspect to it .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: But that 's from run , yeah .
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: So ,
speaker: E
text: b that 's OK ,
speaker: E
text: I mean <disfmarker> b but the difference
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Is the d the final state of running out of something is being out of it .
speaker: E
text: is <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: Yeah . So th
speaker: F
text: You got there .
speaker: A
text: That part is fine .
speaker: F
text: You got to out of it .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: But , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Hmm !
speaker: E
text: Yeah , so <disfmarker> so nob so no one has in <disfmarker> in <disfmarker> of the ,
speaker: E
text: uh ,
speaker: E
text: professional linguists ,
speaker: E
text: they haven't <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Uh .
speaker: E
text: there was this whole thesis on " out of " .
speaker: A
text: There was ?
speaker: E
text: Well , there <disfmarker> I thought <disfmarker> or there was a paper on it .
speaker: A
text: Who ?
speaker: F
text: Out .
speaker: E
text: Huh ?
speaker: F
text: There was one on <disfmarker> on " out " or " out of " ?
speaker: E
text: There was a
speaker: E
text: Well , it may be just " out " .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: I think there was " over "
speaker: E
text: but there was also a paper on " out " .
speaker: F
text: Yeah , Lind - Susan Lindner ,
speaker: F
text: right ?
speaker: E
text: Or something .
speaker: A
text: Oh , yeah , you 're right . Yeah .
speaker: F
text: The <disfmarker> the <disfmarker> " the syrup spread out " ?
speaker: F
text: That kind of thing ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah , and all that sort of stuff .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: And undoubtably there 's been reams of work about it in cognitive linguistics ,
speaker: E
text: OK . But anyway . We 're not gonna do that between now and next week .
speaker: A
text: but .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: So , um <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: It 's not one of the y it 's more straightforward ones <disfmarker> forward ones to defend ,
speaker: A
text: so you probably don't want to use it for the purposes <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: th these are <disfmarker> you 're addressing like , computational linguists ,
speaker: A
text: right .
speaker: A
text: Or <disfmarker> are you ?
speaker: C
text: There 's gonna be four computational linguists ,
speaker: A
text: OK . But more emphasis on the computational ? Or emphasis on the linguist ?
speaker: C
text: computer
speaker: C
text: it 's <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: More <disfmarker> there 's going to be the <disfmarker> just four computational linguists , by coincidence ,
speaker: C
text: but the rest is , whatever , biocomputing people and physicists .
speaker: E
text: No no no , but not for your talk .
speaker: A
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: E
text: I 'm - we 're worrying about the th the thes
speaker: C
text: Oh , the thesis !
speaker: E
text: it 's just for one guy .
speaker: A
text: Oh , I meant this ,
speaker: C
text: That 's <disfmarker> that 's computa should be very computational ,
speaker: A
text: you know , like <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: and , uh , someth
speaker: A
text: So I would try to <disfmarker> I would stay away from one that involves weird construal stuff .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: You know , it 's an obvious one <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Totally weird stuff .
speaker: C
text: I mean the <disfmarker> the old bakery example might be nice ,
speaker: A
text: but , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: " Is there a bakery around here " .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: So if you c we really just construe it as a <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Around ?
speaker: C
text: No , it 's the bakery itself <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: is it a building ? uh , that you want to go to ? or is it something to eat that you want to buy ?
speaker: A
text: Oh .
speaker: A
text: Oh , oh yeah . Yeah ,
speaker: A
text: we 've thought about that .
speaker: A
text: Right . Right .
speaker: C
text: And then <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Nnn .
speaker: A
text: No .
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: A
text: " Bakery " can't be something you 're gonna eat .
speaker: E
text: No , no . The question is d do you wanna <disfmarker> do you wanna construe <disfmarker> do you wanna constr - strue
speaker: F
text: Sh
speaker: D
text: It 's a speech - act .
speaker: E
text: r
speaker: E
text: Exactly . It 's because do you wanna c do you want to view the bakery as a p a place that <disfmarker> that <disfmarker> i for example , if <disfmarker> y
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Where you can get baked goods .
speaker: E
text: Well th well , that 's one .
speaker: E
text: You want to buy something .
speaker: E
text: But the other is ,
speaker: E
text: uh , yo you might have smelled a smell and are just curious about whether there 'd be a bakery in the neighborhood ,
speaker: E
text: or ,
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: um , pfff
speaker: E
text: you know , you wonder how people here make their living ,
speaker: E
text: and <disfmarker> there 're all sorts of reasons why you might be asking about the existence of a bakery
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: that doesn't mean , " I want to buy some baked goods . "
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: But <vocalsound> um ,
speaker: E
text: those are interesting examples
speaker: E
text: but it 's not clear that they 're mainly construal examples .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: So it 's a lot of pragmatics , there , that
speaker: C
text: Mmm .
speaker: E
text: There 's all sorts of stuff going on .
speaker: E
text: So
speaker: A
text: might be beyond what you want to do .
speaker: E
text: let 's <disfmarker> so let 's think about this from the point of view of construal .
speaker: E
text: So let 's first do a <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: So the metonymy thing is probably the easiest
speaker: E
text: and a and actually the <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Though , the one you have isn't quite <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: You mean the s
speaker: A
text: You mean " the steak wants to pay " ?
speaker: E
text: N no not that one ,
speaker: E
text: that 's <disfmarker> that 's a <disfmarker> the sort of background .
speaker: E
text: This is the t uh , page five .
speaker: D
text: About Plato and the book ?
speaker: E
text: No .
speaker: A
text: Oh .
speaker: C
text: No .
speaker: A
text: Um .
speaker: F
text: Onward .
speaker: E
text: Just beyond that .
speaker: A
text: How much does it cost ?
speaker: C
text: Where is the castle ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: A castle .
speaker: C
text: How old is it ?
speaker: C
text: How much does it cost ?
speaker: D
text: Oh .
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: To go in ,
speaker: A
text: that 's like <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Two hundred million dollars .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: It 's not for sale .
speaker: E
text: Uh . So
speaker: F
text: Yeah , I think that 's a good example , actually .
speaker: C
text: S
speaker: A
text: Yeah , that 's good .
speaker: A
text: u
speaker: C
text: But as Nancy just su suggested it 's probably ellipticus .
speaker: A
text: Ellipsis .
speaker: C
text: Huh .
speaker: A
text: Like , " it " doesn't refer to " thing , "
speaker: A
text: it refers to acti you know , j
speaker: A
text: thing standing for activ most relevant activity for a tourist <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: you could think of it that way ,
speaker: A
text: but .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: Well , shoot ,
speaker: F
text: isn't that <disfmarker> I mean , that 's what <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Well , I mean , my argument here is <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> it 's the same thing as " Plato 's on the top shelf , "
speaker: F
text: figuring that out is what this is about .
speaker: A
text: Yeah , yeah , no , I I agree .
speaker: C
text: I 'm con
speaker: C
text: you know , th that you can refer to a book of Plato by using " Plato , "
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: and you can refer back to it ,
speaker: A
text: No no , I <disfmarker> I 'm agreeing that this is a good , um <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: and so you can <disfmarker> Castles have <disfmarker> as tourist sites , have admission fees ,
speaker: C
text: so you can say " Where is the castle ,
speaker: C
text: how much does it cost ? "
speaker: C
text: Um .
speaker: C
text: " How far is it from here ? "
speaker: F
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: C
text: So ,
speaker: C
text: You 're also not referring to the width of the object , or so ,
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: C
text: www .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: Mmm .
speaker: E
text: OK . Can we think of a nice metaphorical use of " where " in the tourist 's domain ?
speaker: E
text: Um .
speaker: F
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: So you know it 's <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: you <disfmarker> you can sometimes use " where " f for " when "
speaker: F
text: O
speaker: E
text: in the sense of , you know ,
speaker: E
text: um ,
speaker: E
text: where <disfmarker> wh where <disfmarker> where was , um ,
speaker: E
text: " where was Heidelberg , um , in the Thirty Years ' War ? "
speaker: E
text: Or something .
speaker: F
text: Uh , yeah .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: You know , or some such thing .
speaker: E
text: Um .
speaker: F
text: Like what side were they on ,
speaker: F
text: or <disfmarker> ?
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah . Essentially , yeah .
speaker: A
text: OK . I was like , " Huh ?
speaker: A
text: It was here . "
speaker: A
text: Like <disfmarker> <comment> Um .
speaker: E
text: But anyway th so there are <disfmarker> there are cases like that .
speaker: E
text: Um ,
speaker: A
text: Ah !
speaker: A
text: Or like its developmental state or something like that ,
speaker: A
text: you could <disfmarker> I guess you could get that .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Um .
speaker: A
text: Um .
speaker: F
text: I mean , there 's also things like <disfmarker> I mean , s
speaker: F
text: um ,
speaker: F
text: I guess I could ask something like " Where can I find out about blah - blah - blah "
speaker: F
text: in a sort of <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: doesn't nece I don't necessarily have to care about the spatial location ,
speaker: F
text: just give me a phone number
speaker: F
text: and I 'll call them or something like that ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah . There certainly is that , yeah .
speaker: E
text: You know , " Where could I learn its opening hours , " or something .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: But that 's not metaphorical .
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: It 's another <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: So we 're thinking about , um ,
speaker: E
text: or we could also think about ,
speaker: E
text: uh <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Well , I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: How about " I 'm in a hurry " ?
speaker: A
text: State .
speaker: E
text: It i But it 's a state <disfmarker> and the <disfmarker> the issue is , is that <disfmarker> it may be just a usage ,
speaker: F
text: Hmm ?
speaker: E
text: you know , that it 's not particularly metaphorical ,
speaker: E
text: I don't know .
speaker: F
text: Mmm .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: So you want a more exotic one <disfmarker> version of that .
speaker: F
text: Oh .
speaker: E
text: Yeah . Yeah , right .
speaker: E
text: Ah !
speaker: E
text: How about
speaker: A
text: I 'm really into <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> you know , " I 'm in <disfmarker> I 'm in a state of exhaustion " ?
speaker: E
text: or something like that ,
speaker: A
text: Do you really say that ?
speaker: E
text: which a tourist w
speaker: E
text: Huh ?
speaker: A
text: Would you really say that ?
speaker: E
text: A st uh , well , you can certainly say , um , you know , " I 'm in overload . "
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Tu - stur tourists will often say that .
speaker: D
text: I I 'm really into art .
speaker: A
text: Yeah , I was gonna say , like <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Uh <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Oh , you can do that ?
speaker: E
text: Really ?
speaker: E
text: Of course that 's <disfmarker> that <disfmarker> that 's definitely a , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Fixed .
speaker: A
text: A fixed expression , yeah .
speaker: E
text: that 's a , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Right . But . <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: There 're too <disfmarker> there 're all sorts of fixed expressions
speaker: A
text: I don't <disfmarker> like uh
speaker: A
text: " I 'm out of sorts now ! "
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: Like <comment> " I 'm in trouble ! "
speaker: C
text: Well I <disfmarker> when , uh <disfmarker> just f u
speaker: C
text: the data that I 've looked at so far that rec
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: I mean , there 's tons of cases for polysemy .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: So , you know , mak re making reference to buildings as institutions , as containers , as build
speaker: A
text: Uh - huh .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: you know , whatever .
speaker: C
text: Um , so ib in mus for example , in museums , you know , as a building or as something where pictures hang versus , you know , ev something that puts on exhibits ,
speaker: E
text: Right . As an institution ,
speaker: C
text: so forth .
speaker: C
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: yeah .
speaker: C
text: Um .
speaker: A
text: Why don't you want to use any of those ?
speaker: C
text: Hmm ?
speaker: A
text: So y you don't wanna use one that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Yeah , well <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: No , but this <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: that 's what I have , you know , started doing .
speaker: E
text: The castle <disfmarker> the <disfmarker> that old castle one is sort of <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Metonymy , polysemy .
speaker: D
text: I love Van Gogh .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Ah !
speaker: A
text: " I wanna go see the Van Gogh . "
speaker: F
text: Oh geez .
speaker: A
text: Anyway , I 'm sorry .
speaker: C
text: But I think the argument should be <disfmarker> uh , can be made that , you know , despite the fact that this is not the most met metaphorical domain ,
speaker: C
text: because people interacting with HTI systems try to be straightforward and less lyrical ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: construal still is , uh , you know , completely , um , key in terms of finding out any of these things ,
speaker: C
text: so , um .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: So that 's <disfmarker> that 's <disfmarker> that 's a <disfmarker> that 's a reasonable point ,
speaker: E
text: that it <disfmarker> in this domain you 're gonna get less metaphor and more metonymy .
speaker: C
text: We , uh <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> with a <disfmarker> I looked <disfmarker> with a student I looked at the entire database that we have on Heidelberg for cases of metonymy .
speaker: E
text: And polysemy , and stuff like that .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Hardly anything .
speaker: C
text: So not even in descriptions w did we find anything , um , relevant .
speaker: F
text: I have to go .
speaker: E
text: Alright . Yeah .
speaker: C
text: But OK this is just something we 'll <disfmarker> we 'll see ,
speaker: C
text: um ,
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: s See you .
speaker: C
text: and deal with .
speaker: E
text: OK , well . I guess if anybody has additional suggestions ,
speaker: C
text: I mean maybe the " where is something " question as a whole , you know , can be construed as , u i locational versus instructional request .
speaker: E
text: w
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: So , if we 're not talk about the lexic
speaker: A
text: Location versus what ?
speaker: C
text: instruction .
speaker: A
text: Instruction . Oh , directions ? Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Sure .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Oh , I thought that was <disfmarker> definitely treated as an example of construal .
speaker: A
text: Right ?
speaker: C
text: Yeah but then you 're not on the lexical level ,
speaker: C
text: that 's sort of one level higher .
speaker: A
text: Oh , you want a lexical example .
speaker: C
text: But I don't need it .
speaker: E
text: Well , you might want both .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Also it would be nice to get <disfmarker> ultimately to get a nice mental space example ,
speaker: E
text: We <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: so , even temporal references are <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: just in the spatial domain are rare .
speaker: E
text: But it 's <disfmarker> it 's easy to make up plausible ones .
speaker: E
text: You know .
speaker: C
text: When <disfmarker> when you 're getting information on objects .
speaker: E
text: Right ,
speaker: C
text: So , I mean <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: you know <disfmarker> you know , where r
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: What color was this in <disfmarker> in in the nain nineteenth century .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: What was this p
speaker: E
text: instead of <disfmarker> wh what <disfmarker> you know <disfmarker> how was this painted ,
speaker: E
text: what color was this painted ,
speaker: E
text: um ,
speaker: E
text: was this alleyway open .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , maybe we can include that also in our second , uh , data run .
speaker: E
text: Uh .
speaker: C
text: We c we can show people pictures of objects
speaker: C
text: and then have then ask the system about the objects
speaker: C
text: and engage in conversation on the history and the art and the architecture and so forth .
speaker: E
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: OK . So why don't we plan to give you feedback electronically .
speaker: E
text: Wish you a good trip .
speaker: E
text: All success .
speaker: D
text: For some reason when you said " feedback electronically " I thought of that <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: you ever see the Simpsons where they 're <disfmarker> like the family 's got the buzzers
speaker: D
text: and they buzz each other when they don't like what the other one is saying ?
speaker: A
text: Yeah . That 's the <disfmarker> first one , I think .
speaker: D
text: It was a very early one .
speaker: A
text: The very very first one .
speaker: D
text: I don't know if it 's the first one .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .

Meeting summary:
text: The meeting was taken up by discussion about a thesis proposal and a talk about to take place at EML.
text: The latter will present the work that is currently being done at ICSI including examples of inference of user intentions and of the recordings of the on-going data collection.
text: The talk will also outline the theoretical (X-schemas, image schemas, Bayes-nets) and neural background.
text: The thesis proposal, on the other hand, presents the idea of "construal" and makes claims as to how inferences are drawn in a probabilistic relational model by using information from the ontology, situation, user and discourse models.
text: It was advised that more emphasis should be put on the role of construal in the understanding of metaphor and metonymy.
text: Base constructions deal with the norm, while further general domain mechanisms determine how the constructions are invoked depending on the context.
text: Several potential examples of polysemy were discussed in detail: "walk/run into", "on the bus", "out of film", "where is X?".
text: However, none of them was an example of lexical polysemy resolved by construal straightforward enough to include in the proposal; the tourist domain is not metaphor rich.
text: As the talk at EML will also refer to a theoretical framework, it was suggested that along with presenting NTL and the piece on mirror neurons, it also alludes to relevant fMRI work.
text: The neural side of the research could be of interest to various groups.
text: The language analysis itself will be introduced in terms of image schemas.
text: On the other hand, it was arranged for more feedback on the thesis proposal to be sent by email.
text: The latest version of the construction formalism will also be needed to complete the presentation.
text: It was noted that the thesis proposal did not put any emphasis on metaphor or on the scalability achieved by combining constructions with general construal mechanisms: constructions cover base cases, while metaphoric and metonymic cases are resolved with the extra help provided by construal.
text: During this discussion, however, the suggested examples of polysemy, which is tackled by the proposed framework, were not straightforward enough.
text: It was agreed that metaphors are not abundant in the spatial domain.
text: Some of the candidates discussed were phrases like "on the bus", "out of film", non-spatial uses of "where" or other fixed expressions.
text: The thesis proposal focuses on how construal works in the tourist domain.
text: One can build a probabilistic relational model with domain general rules that define how ontology, situation, user and discourse models combine to infer intentions.
text: The talk for EML includes a presentation of the motivation behind the project, as well as the work already done on SmartKom (parser, generator, synthesis).
text: Furthermore, the data collection currently taking place and some preliminary observations are going to be outlined.
text: All this is going to be given from the perspective of the general theoretical framework, NTL, with further explanations on X-schemas and also the embodied simulation approach.