Meeting transcript:
speaker: G
text: headphones that aren't so uncomfortable .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: B
text: I think <disfmarker> Well , this should be off the record ,
speaker: B
text: but I think <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Uh , OK .
speaker: A
text: We 're not recording yet , are we ?
speaker: G
text: Well , I don't think <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: No .
speaker: F
text: No , uh , that <disfmarker> that wasn't recorded .
speaker: G
text: Um , I don't think they 're designed to be over your ears .
speaker: B
text: Yeah , I know .
speaker: B
text: It just <disfmarker> it really hurts .
speaker: B
text: It gives you a headache ,
speaker: B
text: like if you <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Temple squeezers .
speaker: B
text: On your temple <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: But I definitely <pause> haven't figured it out .
speaker: A
text: Um , Meeting Recorder meeting .
speaker: F
text: I guess I have to d stop doing this sigh of contentment , you know , after sipping cappuccino or something .
speaker: B
text: Yeah , with the <disfmarker> We kno I know .
speaker: G
text: " Sip , sigh . "
speaker: F
text: I was just noticing a big s
speaker: B
text: We know exactly how much you have left in your cup .
speaker: D
text: So are we recording now ?
speaker: D
text: Is this <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Oh ! We 're <disfmarker> we 're <disfmarker> we 're live .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: So , uh , <vocalsound> what were we gonna talk about again ?
speaker: D
text: So we said <disfmarker> we said data collection , which we 're doing .
speaker: B
text: Were we gonna do digits ?
speaker: A
text: OK . Do we do th do you go around the room <pause> and do names or anything ?
speaker: G
text: I think that <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: It 's a good idea .
speaker: G
text: u
speaker: G
text: usually we 've done that
speaker: G
text: and also we 've s done digits as well ,
speaker: G
text: but I forgot to print any out .
speaker: G
text: So .
speaker: G
text: Besides with this big a group ,
speaker: G
text: it would take too much time .
speaker: D
text: No . I it 'd be even better with this big <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: You can write them on the board , if you want .
speaker: E
text: Which way is <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah , but it takes too much time .
speaker: E
text: Mari ?
speaker: H
text: What <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: What ?
speaker: E
text: Y I think your <disfmarker> your <disfmarker> your thing <nonvocalsound> may be pointing in a funny direction .
speaker: D
text: It 's not that long .
speaker: E
text: Sort of it 's <disfmarker> it helps if it points sort of upwards .
speaker: A
text: Whoops .
speaker: E
text: Sort of it <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: you know .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Would it <disfmarker> m
speaker: E
text: So that thing <disfmarker> the little <disfmarker> th that part should be pointing upwards .
speaker: D
text: w u
speaker: A
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Oh , this thing .
speaker: E
text: That 's it .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Otherwise you just get a heartbeats .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: It 's kind of <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Oh , yeah , the element ,
speaker: D
text: yeah , n should be as close to you <disfmarker> your mouth as possible .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: That 's good .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: That kind of thing is good .
speaker: H
text: It 's a <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: This w
speaker: A
text: Alright .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: How 's that working ?
speaker: E
text: It 's a <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: It 's working .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: Alright .
speaker: D
text: So what we had <pause> was that we were gonna talk about data collection ,
speaker: D
text: and , um , uh , you <disfmarker> you put up there data format ,
speaker: A
text: Um .
speaker: D
text: and other tasks during data collection ,
speaker: A
text: So , I think the goal <disfmarker> the goal was what can we do <disfmarker> how can you do the data collection differently to get <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: what can you add to it to get , um , some information that would be helpful for the user - interface design ?
speaker: A
text: Like <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Uh , especially for querying .
speaker: A
text: Especially for querying .
speaker: A
text: So , getting people to do queries afterwards ,
speaker: A
text: getting people to do summaries afterwards .
speaker: A
text: Um .
speaker: H
text: Well , one thing that came up in the morning <disfmarker> in the morning was the , um ,
speaker: H
text: i uh , if he <disfmarker> I , um <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: if he has <disfmarker> s
speaker: H
text: I <disfmarker> I don't remember ,
speaker: H
text: Mister Lan - Doctor Landry ?
speaker: H
text: La - Landay ?
speaker: G
text: Landay . James .
speaker: H
text: So he has , um , these , uh , um , tsk <comment> note - taking things ,
speaker: H
text: then that would sort of be a summary which you wouldn't have to solicit .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: y if <disfmarker> if we were able to <disfmarker> to do that .
speaker: A
text: Well , if <disfmarker> if you actually take notes as a summary as opposed to n take notes in the sense of taking advantage of the time - stamps .
speaker: A
text: So action item or uh , reminder to send this to so - and - so , blah - blah - blah .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: So that wouldn't be a summary .
speaker: A
text: That would just be <disfmarker> that would b relate to the query side .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: But if we had the CrossPads , we could ask people , you know , if <disfmarker> if something comes up <vocalsound> write it down and mark it <vocalsound> <pause> somehow ,
speaker: G
text: you know .
speaker: E
text: Right . I mean , we <disfmarker> because you 'd have several people with these pads , you could collect different things .
speaker: E
text: I mean , cuz I tend to take notes which are summaries .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: And so , you know <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: I mean , the down - side to that is that he sort of indicated that the , uh , quality of <vocalsound> the handwriting recognition was quite poor .
speaker: A
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: But that 's alright .
speaker: G
text: I don't think there 'd be so many that you couldn't have someone clean it up
speaker: A
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: pretty easily .
speaker: A
text: Yeah . We also could come up with some code for things that people want to do so that <disfmarker> for frequent things .
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: And the other things , people can write whatever they want .
speaker: A
text: I mean , it 's to some extent , uh , for his benefit .
speaker: A
text: So ,
speaker: A
text: if that <disfmarker> you know , if <disfmarker> if we just keep it simple then maybe it 's still useful .
speaker: F
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: I just realized we skipped the part that we were saying we were gonna do at the front where we each said who we were .
speaker: H
text: The roll call .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: Roll call .
speaker: A
text: I thought you did that on purpose .
speaker: A
text: But anyway , shall we do the roll call ?
speaker: D
text: No , not a
speaker: D
text: No , I just <disfmarker> My mind went elsewhere .
speaker: D
text: So ,
speaker: D
text: uh , yeah , I 'm Morgan ,
speaker: D
text: and
speaker: D
text: where am I ?
speaker: D
text: I 'm on channel three .
speaker: G
text: And I 'm Adam Janin on channel A .
speaker: H
text: I 'm Jane Edwards , I think on channel B .
speaker: E
text: I 'm Dan Ellis .
speaker: F
text: Eric on channel nine .
speaker: B
text: Liz , on channel one .
speaker: A
text: Mari on channel zero .
speaker: C
text: Katrin on channel two .
speaker: H
text: Should we have used pseudo - names ?
speaker: H
text: Should we do it a second time with pseudo
speaker: H
text: No . <vocalsound> No .
speaker: D
text: I 'm Rocky Raccoon <vocalsound> on channel <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: And , uh , do you want to do the P D As and the <pause> P Z
speaker: E
text: Let me , uh , turn that off .
speaker: E
text: Oh . PZM nearest , nearest , next nearest .
speaker: E
text: Next one .
speaker: H
text: Next nearest .
speaker: G
text: Far .
speaker: E
text: Furthest .
speaker: E
text: PDM - right ,
speaker: E
text: PZA - right <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: PDA - right ,
speaker: E
text: PDA - left .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Thanks .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , and eventually once this room gets a little more organized , the Jimlets <comment> will be mounted under the table ,
speaker: G
text: and these guys will be permanently mounted somehow .
speaker: G
text: You know , probably with double - sided tape ,
speaker: G
text: but <disfmarker> So .
speaker: G
text: You <disfmarker> So we won't have to go through that .
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: I have a question on protocol in these meetings ,
speaker: H
text: which is when you say " Jimlet " and the person listening won't know what that is , sh shou How <disfmarker> how do we get <disfmarker> Is that important information ?
speaker: H
text: You know , the Jimlet <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I mean , the box that contains the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Well , I mean , suppose we broaden out and go to a range of meetings besides just these internal ones .
speaker: D
text: There 's gonna be lots of things that any group of people who know each other have in column <disfmarker> common <comment> that we will not know .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: So the there will be jargon that we he There 'll be transcription errors .
speaker: H
text: Good .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: I mean , we <disfmarker> we were originally gonna do this with VLSI design ,
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> and <disfmarker> and the reason we didn't go straight to that was because immediately ninety percent of what we heard would be <vocalsound> jargon to <disfmarker> to us .
speaker: D
text: So .
speaker: G
text: Well , that was just one of the reasons .
speaker: G
text: But , yeah , definitely .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: OK . Good .
speaker: D
text: That <disfmarker> that 's right .
speaker: D
text: There were others of course .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: OK , so we were on the data collection <pause> <comment> and the summary issue .
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: We can go back .
speaker: A
text: So ,
speaker: A
text: uh , u u
speaker: A
text: So , actually there 's kind of three issues .
speaker: A
text: There 's the CrossPad issue .
speaker: A
text: Should we do it and , if so , what 'll we have them do ?
speaker: A
text: Um , do we have s people write summaries ?
speaker: A
text: Everybody or one person ?
speaker: A
text: And then , do we ask people for how they would query things ?
speaker: F
text: There 's <disfmarker> there 're sub - problems in that ,
speaker: A
text: Is that <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: in that where <disfmarker> or when do you actually ask them about that ?
speaker: F
text: I mean , that was <disfmarker> One thing I was thinking about was is that Dan said earlier that , you know , maybe two weeks later , which is when you would want to query these things , you might ask them then .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: But there 's a problem with that in that if <pause> you 're not <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: If you don't have an interactive system , it 's gonna be hard to go beyond sort of the first level of question .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: And furth id explore the data further .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: So .
speaker: G
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: There 's <disfmarker> there 's another problem
speaker: D
text: which is , um , we certainly do want to branch out beyond , uh , uh , recording meetings about Meeting Recorder .
speaker: D
text: And , uh , once we get out beyond our little group , the people 's motivation factor , uh , reduces enormously .
speaker: D
text: And if we start giving them a bunch of other things to do ,
speaker: D
text: how <disfmarker> you know , we <disfmarker> we did n you know another meeting here for another group
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> and , uh , they were fine with it .
speaker: D
text: But if we 'd said , " OK , now all eight of you have to <disfmarker> <vocalsound> have to come up with , uh , the summar "
speaker: G
text: Well , I asked them to
speaker: G
text: and none of them did .
speaker: D
text: t See ?
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: So , I <disfmarker> I asked them to send me ideas for queries after the meeting
speaker: D
text: There we go .
speaker: A
text: They <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: and no one ever did .
speaker: E
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: I didn't follow up either .
speaker: G
text: So I didn't track them down and say " please do th do it now " .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: But , uh , no one spontaneously provided anything .
speaker: D
text: I
speaker: D
text: I 'm worried that if you did <disfmarker> even if you did push them into it , it <disfmarker> it <disfmarker> it might be semi - random ,
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: uh , as opposed to what you 'd really want to know if you were gonna use this thing .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: I just don't know how else to generate the queries other than getting an expert to actually listen to the meeting and say " that 's important ,
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: that might be a query " .
speaker: H
text: Tsk .
speaker: H
text: Well , there is this other thing which y which you were alluding to earlier , which is , um , there are certain key words like , you know , " action item " and things like that ,
speaker: H
text: which could be used in , uh , t to some degree finding the structure .
speaker: E
text: Although <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: W
speaker: H
text: And <disfmarker> and I also , um , was thinking , with reference to the n uh , note - taking ,
speaker: H
text: the advantage there is that you get structure without the person having to do something artificial later .
speaker: H
text: And the fir third thing I wanted to say is the summaries afterwards ,
speaker: H
text: um , I think they should be recorded instead of written
speaker: H
text: because I think that , um , it would take so long for people to write that I think you wouldn't get as good a summary .
speaker: A
text: How about this idea ?
speaker: A
text: That normally at most meetings somebody is delegated to be a note - taker .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , good .
speaker: H
text: Good point .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: And <disfmarker> So why don't we just use the notes that somebody takes ?
speaker: G
text: I mean , that gives you a summary
speaker: G
text: but it doesn't really <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: How do you generate queries from that ?
speaker: E
text: Well . But , I mean , maybe a summary is one of the things we 'd want from the output of the system .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Right ?
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: I mean , they 're something .
speaker: E
text: It 's a <disfmarker> a kind of output you 'd like .
speaker: B
text: Actually <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Uh , James and I were talking about this during one of the breaks .
speaker: B
text: And so <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: And the problem with that is , I 'm definitely going to do something with information retrieval
speaker: G
text: even if it 's sort of not full full - bore what I 'm gonna do for my thesis .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: I 'm gonna do something .
speaker: G
text: I 'm not gonna do anything with summarization .
speaker: G
text: And so if someone wants to do that , that 's fine ,
speaker: G
text: but it 's not gonna be me .
speaker: D
text: Well , I think that we <disfmarker> I mean , the <disfmarker> the f the core thing is that you know once we get some of these issues nailed down , we need to do a bunch of recordings
speaker: A
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: and send them off to IBM
speaker: D
text: and get a bunch of transcriptions
speaker: D
text: even if they 're slightly flawed
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: D
text: or need some other <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: And then we 'll have some data there .
speaker: D
text: And then , i i we can start l looking and thinking , what do we want to know about these things
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> at the very least .
speaker: E
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: I actually want to say something about the note pad .
speaker: A
text: Yeah <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: So , if you could sense just when people are writing , and you tell them not to doodle , or try not to <pause> be using that for other purposes , <comment> and each person has a note pad . They just get it when they come in the room . Then you c you can just have a fff <comment> plot of wh you know , who 's writing when .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: Activity .
speaker: B
text: That 's all you <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: And , you can also have notes of the meeting .
speaker: B
text: But I bet that 's <disfmarker> that will allow you to go into the <disfmarker> sort of the hot places where people are writing things down .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: Oh , I see .
speaker: B
text: I mean , you can tell when you 're in a meeting when everybody stops to write something down that something was just said .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: It may not be kept in the later summary ,
speaker: B
text: but at that point in time is was something that was important .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: And that wouldn't take any extra <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: That 's a nice idea .
speaker: B
text: Or someone could just pu you could just put your hand on the pad
speaker: D
text: It <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: and go like that if you want to .
speaker: D
text: That 's a good idea
speaker: B
text: It 's <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: but that doesn't <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Maybe I 'm missing something ,
speaker: D
text: but that doesn't get to the question of how we come up with queries , right ?
speaker: B
text: Well , then you can go to the points where the <disfmarker> you could actually go to those points in time
speaker: A
text: Well , what it does <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: and find out what they were talking about .
speaker: B
text: And you r
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Well , what it does is provide a different <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Uh , y
speaker: A
text: I <disfmarker> I think it 's an interesting thing .
speaker: A
text: I don't think it gets at the <disfmarker> the queries per - se ,
speaker: A
text: but it does give us an information fusion sort of thing that , you know , you wanna i say " what were the hot - points of the meeting ? "
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: That <disfmarker> that 's what I mean , is that I think it gets at something interesting
speaker: D
text: but if we were asking the question , which I thought we were , of <disfmarker> of <disfmarker> of , um , " how do we figure out what 's the nature of the queries that people are gonna want to ask of such a system ? " , knowing what 's important doesn't tell you what people are going to be asking .
speaker: B
text: But I bet it 's a good <pause> superset of it .
speaker: D
text: Does it ?
speaker: E
text: Well , see , there are th
speaker: A
text: Well , yeah .
speaker: A
text: I think you could say they 're gonna ask about , uh , when <disfmarker> uh , when did so - and - so s talk about blah .
speaker: A
text: And at least that gives you the word <pause> that they might run a query on .
speaker: B
text: At least you can find the locations where there are maybe keywords
speaker: G
text: I mean , i this would tell you what the hit is ,
speaker: D
text: Maybe .
speaker: B
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: not what the query is .
speaker: G
text: What <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Right , right .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: It 'll tell you the hit but not the query .
speaker: B
text: But I think <disfmarker> I think thinking about queries is a little bit dangerous right now .
speaker: G
text: And so you could <disfmarker> you can generate a query from the hits ,
speaker: G
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: B
text: We don't even know what <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: I mean , if you want to find out what any user will use , that might be true for one domain and one user ,
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: but I mean a different domain and a different user <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , but we 're just looking for a place to start with that
speaker: B
text: Um .
speaker: D
text: because , you know , th what <disfmarker> what <disfmarker> what James is gonna be doing is looking at the user - interface
speaker: D
text: and he 's looking at the query in <disfmarker> in <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: i We <disfmarker> we have five hours of pilot data of the other stuff
speaker: D
text: but we have zero hours of <disfmarker> of <disfmarker> of queries .
speaker: D
text: So he 's just sort of going " where <disfmarker> where do I <disfmarker> where do I start ? "
speaker: A
text: w
speaker: A
text: Well , th you could do <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I think the summaries actually may help get us there ,
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: for a couple reasons .
speaker: A
text: One , if you have a summary <disfmarker> if you have a bunch of summaries , you can do a word frequency count and see what words come up in different types of meetings .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: So " action item " is gonna come up whether it 's a VLSI meeting , or speech meeting , or whatever .
speaker: A
text: So words that come up in different types of meetings may be something that you would want to query about .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Um , the second thing you could possibly do with it is just run a little pilot experiment with somebody saying " here 's a summary of a meeting , what questions might you want to ask about it to go back ? "
speaker: G
text: Yeah , I think that 's difficult
speaker: G
text: because then they 're not gonna ask the questions that are in the summary .
speaker: A
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: But , I think it would give <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: That 's one possi one possible scenario , though , is you have the summary ,
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: and you want to ask questions to get more detail .
speaker: G
text: th Yeah , I think it has to be a participant .
speaker: G
text: Well , it doesn't have to be .
speaker: G
text: OK . So that <disfmarker> that is another use of Meeting Recorder that we haven't really talked about ,
speaker: G
text: which is for someone else ,
speaker: G
text: as opposed to as a <pause> remembrance agent ,
speaker: G
text: which is what had been my primary thought in the information retrieval part of it would be .
speaker: G
text: But , uh ,
speaker: G
text: I guess if you had a meeting participant , they could use the summary to refresh themselves about the meeting and then make up queries .
speaker: G
text: But it 's not <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: I don't know how to do it if <disfmarker> until you have a system .
speaker: B
text: The summary is actually gonna drive the queries then .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: B
text: I mean , your research is going to be very circular .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , that <disfmarker> that 's what I was saying .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: But th there is this , um <disfmarker> <vocalsound> <vocalsound> <vocalsound> There is this class of queries , which are the things that you didn't realize were important at the time
speaker: E
text: but some in retrospect you think " oh , hang on , didn't we talk about that ? "
speaker: E
text: And it 's something that didn't appear in the summary but you <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: And that 's kind of what this kind of , uh , complete data capture is kind of nicest for .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: B
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: Cuz it 's the things that you wouldn't have bothered to make an effort to record but they get recorded .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: So , I mean <disfmarker> And th there 's no way of generating those , u u until we just <disfmarker> until they actually occur .
speaker: E
text: You know , it 's like <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: But you could always post - hoc label them .
speaker: E
text: Right , right . Exactly .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: But I mean , it 's difficult to sort of say " and if I was gonna ask four questions about this , what would they be ? "
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Those aren't the kind of things that come up .
speaker: G
text: But at least it would get us started .
speaker: E
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah , sure .
speaker: H
text: I also think that w if <disfmarker> if you can use the summaries as an indication of the important points of the <disfmarker> of the meeting , then you might get something like <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: y So if th if the obscure item you want to know more about was some form of data collection ,
speaker: H
text: you know , maybe the summary would say , you know , " we discussed types of na data collection " .
speaker: H
text: And , you know <disfmarker> And <disfmarker> and maybe you could get to it by that .
speaker: H
text: If you <disfmarker> if you had the <disfmarker> the larger structure of the <disfmarker> of the discourse , then if you can categorize what it is that you 're looking for with reference to those l those larger headings , then you can find it
speaker: H
text: even if you don't have a direct route to that .
speaker: G
text: Mmm .
speaker: H
text: I think that <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Although it seems like that 's , um , a high burden on the note - taker .
speaker: G
text: That 's a pretty fine grain that the note - taker will have to take .
speaker: B
text: Maybe Landay can put a student in to be a note - taker .
speaker: A
text: I th
speaker: A
text: No .
speaker: A
text: I think you got to have somebody who knows the pro knows the topic or <disfmarker> you know , whose job it is delegated to be the note - taker .
speaker: B
text: No ?
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Somebody who 's part of the meeting .
speaker: B
text: No , I mean , but someone who can come sit in on the meetings and then takes the notes with them that the real note - taker <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: But they <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: And that way that one student has , you know , a rough idea of what was going on ,
speaker: B
text: and they can use it for their research .
speaker: B
text: I mean , this isn't really necessarily what you would do in a real system ,
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: because that that 's a lot of trouble
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: and maybe it 's not the best way to do it .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: But if he has some students that want to study that then they should sort of get to know the people and attend those meetings ,
speaker: B
text: and get the notes from the note - taker or something .
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: G
text: Well , I think that 's a little bit of a problem .
speaker: G
text: Their sort of note - taking application stuff
speaker: G
text: they 've been doing for the last couple of years ,
speaker: G
text: and I don't think anyone is still working on it .
speaker: G
text: I think they 're done .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Um , so I 'm not sure that they have anyone currently working on notes .
speaker: G
text: So what we 'd have to interest someone in is the combination of note and speech .
speaker: B
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: And so the question is " is there such a person ? "
speaker: G
text: And I think right now , the answer is " no " .
speaker: D
text: I 've b been thinking <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Well
speaker: G
text: We 'll just have to see .
speaker: D
text: I 've been thinking about it a little bit here <disfmarker> about the <disfmarker> uh , th this , e um <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: I think that the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: now I 'm thinking that the summary <disfmarker> a summary , uh , is actually a reasonable , uh , bootstrap into this <disfmarker> into what we 'd like to get at .
speaker: D
text: It 's <disfmarker> it 's not ideal ,
speaker: D
text: but we <disfmarker> you know , we <disfmarker> we have to get started someplace .
speaker: D
text: So I was <disfmarker> I was just thinking about , um , suppose we wanted to get <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: w We have this collection of meeting .
speaker: D
text: We have five hours of stuff .
speaker: D
text: Uh , we get that transcribed .
speaker: D
text: So now we have five hours of meetings
speaker: D
text: and , uh , you ask me , uh , uh , " Morgan , what d you know , what kind of questions do you want to ask ? "
speaker: D
text: Uh , I wouldn't have any idea what kind of questions I want to ask .
speaker: D
text: I 'd have to get started someplace .
speaker: D
text: So in fact if I looked at summary of it , I 'd go " oh , yeah , I was in that meeting ,
speaker: D
text: I remember that ,
speaker: D
text: um , what was the part that <disfmarker> "
speaker: D
text: And <disfmarker> and th I think that might then help me to think of things <disfmarker> even things that aren't listed in the summary , but just as a <disfmarker> as a <disfmarker> as a refresh of what the general thing was going on in the meeting .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: I think it serves two purpo purposes .
speaker: A
text: One , as sort of a refresh to help bootstrap queries ,
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: but also , I mean , maybe we do want to generate summaries .
speaker: D
text: Well , yeah . That 's true too .
speaker: A
text: And then it 's <disfmarker> you know , it 's kind of a key .
speaker: E
text: Hmm .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , absolutely . Then you want to have it .
speaker: B
text: So how does the summary get generated ?
speaker: A
text: Uh <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: I 'm not against the idea of a summary ,
speaker: A
text: Well , i i <disfmarker> ?
speaker: G
text: By hand .
speaker: B
text: but I wanted to think carefully about who 's generating it
speaker: A
text: Or , d o
speaker: B
text: and how <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: because the summary will drive the queries .
speaker: B
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: What I <disfmarker> I think , you know , in most meetings ,
speaker: A
text: this one being <pause> different ,
speaker: A
text: but in most meetings that I attend , there 's somebody t explicitly taking notes , frequently on a laptop <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Um , you can just make it be on a laptop ,
speaker: B
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: so then yo you 're dealing with ASCII
speaker: A
text: and not somebody <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: you don't have to go through handwriting recognition .
speaker: A
text: Um , and then they post - edit it into , uh , a summary
speaker: A
text: and they email it out for minutes .
speaker: A
text: I mean , that happens in most meetings .
speaker: H
text: I I <disfmarker> I think that , um , there 's <disfmarker> we 're using " summary " in two different ways .
speaker: H
text: So what you just described I would describe as " minutes " .
speaker: G
text: Minutes .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: And what I originally thought was , um , if you asked someone " what was the meeting about ? "
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: OK .
speaker: H
text: And then they would say " well , we talked about this
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: and then we talked about that ,
speaker: H
text: and so - and - so talked about <disfmarker> "
speaker: H
text: And then you 'd have , like <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I <disfmarker> e My thought was to have multiple people summarize it , on recording rather than writing
speaker: H
text: because writing takes time
speaker: H
text: and you get irrelevant other things that u take time , that <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Whereas if you just say it immediately after the meeting ,
speaker: H
text: you know , a two - minute summary of what the meeting was about , I think you would get ,
speaker: H
text: uh , with mult
speaker: H
text: See , I <disfmarker> I also worry about having a single note - taker
speaker: H
text: because that 's just one person 's perception .
speaker: H
text: And , um ,
speaker: H
text: you know , it <disfmarker> it 's releva it 's relative to what you 're focus was on that meeting ,
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: and <disfmarker> and people have different <comment> major topics that they 're interested in .
speaker: D
text: A
speaker: H
text: So , my proposal would be that it may be worth considering both of those types , you know , the note - taking and a spontaneous oral summary afterwards ,
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: no longer than two minutes ,
speaker: D
text: Adam , you can <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: from multiple people .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: you can correct me on this ,
speaker: D
text: but <disfmarker> but , uh , my impression was that , uh , pretty much , uh , true that the meetings here , nobody sits with a w uh , with a laptop
speaker: G
text: Never .
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Never . I 've never seen it at ICSI .
speaker: G
text: Does anyone <disfmarker> ?
speaker: G
text: I mean , Dan is the one who <disfmarker> who most frequently would take notes ,
speaker: D
text: I
speaker: B
text: Dan ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: I 've d When we <disfmarker> when we have other meetings .
speaker: E
text: When I have meetings on the European projects , we have someone taking notes .
speaker: G
text: Oh , really ?
speaker: E
text: In fact , I often do it .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , but those are bigger deal things .
speaker: D
text: Right ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Where you 've got fifteen peo
speaker: D
text: I mean , most <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: th this is one of the larger meetings .
speaker: D
text: Most of the meetings we have are four or five people
speaker: G
text: That 's true <disfmarker> are four or five people .
speaker: D
text: and you 're not <disfmarker> you don't have somebody sitting and taking minutes for it .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: You just <vocalsound> get together and talk about where you are .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: So , I think it depends on whether it 's a business meeting or a technical discussion .
speaker: G
text: Culture .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: And I agree ,
speaker: A
text: technical discussions you don't usually have somebody taking notes .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: The IRAM meeting , they <disfmarker> they take notes every <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Do they ?
speaker: G
text: There 's uh a person with a laptop <pause> at each meeting .
speaker: E
text: How many people are those meetings ?
speaker: G
text: There are more .
speaker: G
text: I mean , there are ten - ish .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Y you should also have a record of what 's on the board .
speaker: G
text: They 're very sparse .
speaker: B
text: I mean , I find it very <pause> hard to reconstruct what 's going on .
speaker: B
text: I <disfmarker> I don't know how <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah . This is something early in the project we talked a lot about .
speaker: B
text: I don't know how ,
speaker: B
text: but for instance , I mean , the outline is sort of up here
speaker: B
text: and that 's what people are seeing .
speaker: B
text: And if you have a <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Or you shou could tell people not to <disfmarker> to use the boards .
speaker: B
text: But there 's sort of this missing information otherwise .
speaker: H
text: I agree .
speaker: E
text: We sh we should <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: I agree , but <disfmarker> but you <disfmarker> you just <disfmarker> you g end up with video ,
speaker: E
text: Well , I don't know .
speaker: G
text: and <disfmarker> and instrumented rooms .
speaker: G
text: And <pause> that 's a different project , I think .
speaker: E
text: f u
speaker: E
text: I think for this data capture , it would be nice to have a digital camera
speaker: G
text: Yeah , different <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Uh , y
speaker: E
text: just to take pictures of who 's there ,
speaker: E
text: where the microphones are ,
speaker: E
text: and then we could also put in what 's on the board .
speaker: E
text: You know , like three or four snaps for every <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: I agree .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: That 's wonderful .
speaker: E
text: for every meeting .
speaker: B
text: People who were never at the meeting will have a very hard time understanding it otherwise .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: But don't you think that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I agree .
speaker: G
text: Don't you think that <disfmarker> But <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: Well , no . I mean , I <disfmarker> I just think <disfmarker> I mean , I think that right now we don't make a record of where people are sitting on the tables .
speaker: B
text: Even people who were at the meeting .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: Huh .
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: And that <disfmarker> the <disfmarker> at some point that might be awfully useful .
speaker: G
text: But I think adding photographs adds a whole nother level of problems .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: We
speaker: H
text: It 's just a digital record .
speaker: E
text: n uh ,
speaker: E
text: Not <disfmarker> not as part of the <disfmarker> not as a part of the data that you have to recover .
speaker: B
text: I don't mean that you model it .
speaker: E
text: Just <disfmarker> just in terms of <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: We should just <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Like archiving it or storing it .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yes , I agree .
speaker: H
text: I agree .
speaker: H
text: It 's i because discourse is about things ,
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: Because someone <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: and then you have the things that are about , and it 's recoverable .
speaker: B
text: someone later might be able to take these and say " OK , they , you know <disfmarker> at least these are the people who were there
speaker: E
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: and here 's sort of what they started talking about ,
speaker: B
text: and <disfmarker> "
speaker: B
text: and just <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Yes .
speaker: H
text: And it 's so simple .
speaker: H
text: Like you said , three snapshots
speaker: D
text: Li
speaker: D
text: uh , L L
speaker: H
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: L
speaker: D
text: Liz , you <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Just to archive .
speaker: D
text: u uh , Liz , you sa you sat in on the , uh , <vocalsound> subcommittee meeting or whatever <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Actually <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: uh , on <disfmarker> you <disfmarker> on the subcommittee meeting for <disfmarker> for <disfmarker> at the , uh <disfmarker> that workshop we were at that , uh , uh , Mark Liberman was <disfmarker> was having .
speaker: D
text: So I <disfmarker> I wasn't there .
speaker: D
text: They <disfmarker> they <disfmarker> they <disfmarker> they h must have had some discussion about video and the visual aspect , and all that .
speaker: B
text: Big , big interest .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Huge .
speaker: B
text: I mean , it <disfmarker> personally , I don't <disfmarker> I would never want to deal with it .
speaker: B
text: But I 'm just saying first of all there 's a whole bunch of fusion issues that DARPA 's interested in .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: You know , fusing gesture and face recognition ,
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: even lip movement and things like that ,
speaker: B
text: for this kind of task .
speaker: B
text: And there 's also I think a personal interest on the part of Mark Liberman in this kind of <disfmarker> in storing these images in any data we collect
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: so that later we can do other things with it .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: So <disfmarker> so to address what <disfmarker> what Adam 's saying ,
speaker: H
text: Mmm .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: I mean , I think you <disfmarker> uh , that
speaker: B
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: the key thing there is that this is a description of database collection effort that they 're talking about doing .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: And if the database exists and includes some visual information that doesn't mean that an individual researcher is going to make any use of it .
speaker: D
text: Right ?
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: So , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: But that <disfmarker> it 's gonna be a lot of effort on our part to create it , and store it ,
speaker: G
text: and get all the standards , and to do anything with it .
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: So we 're gonna <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: So we 're gonna do what we 're gonna do ,
speaker: D
text: whatever 's reasonable for us .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: I think even doing something very crude <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: But having <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Like I know with ATIS , we just had a tape recorder running all the time .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: And later on it turned out it was really good that you had a tape recorder of what was happening ,
speaker: B
text: even though you w you just got the speech from the machine .
speaker: B
text: So if you can find some really , you know , low , uh , perplexity ,
speaker: G
text: Low fidelity .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: yeah , <comment> way of <disfmarker> of doing that , I think it would be worthwhile .
speaker: H
text: I agree .
speaker: H
text: And if it 's simple as <disfmarker> I mean , as simple as just the digital <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Otherwise you 'd <disfmarker> you lose it .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Well , minimally , I mean , what <disfmarker> what Dan is referring to at least having some representation of the p the spatial position of the people ,
speaker: D
text: cuz we are interested in some spatial processing .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: And so <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: so , um <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Well , once the room is a little more fixed that 's a little easier
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: cuz you 'll <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Well , the wireless .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Also CMU has been doing this
speaker: B
text: and they were the most vocal at this meeting ,
speaker: B
text: Alex Waibel 's group .
speaker: B
text: And they have <pause> said , I talked to the student who had done this , <comment> that with two fairly inexpensive cameras they <disfmarker> they just recorded all the time
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: and were able to get all the information from <disfmarker> or maybe it was three <disfmarker> from all the parts of the room .
speaker: B
text: So I think we would be <disfmarker> we might lose the chance to use this data for somebody later who wants to do some kind of processing on it if we don't collect it <comment> at all .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I don't disagree .
speaker: G
text: I think that if you have that , then people who are interested in vision can use this database . The problem with it is you 'll have more people who don't want to be filmed than who don't want to be recorded .
speaker: H
text: Well , she 's not <pause> making <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: So that there 's going to be another group of people who are gonna say " I won't participate " .
speaker: C
text: Mmm .
speaker: C
text: That 's true .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: Or you could put a paper bag over everybody 's head
speaker: G
text: Um <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: and not look at each other
speaker: B
text: and not look at boards ,
speaker: B
text: and just all be sitting <vocalsound> talking .
speaker: D
text: Uh - huh .
speaker: H
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: That would be an interes <vocalsound> Bu
speaker: H
text: Well , there 's <disfmarker> that 'd be the <disfmarker> the parallel , yeah .
speaker: D
text: Great idea .
speaker: H
text: But I think y she 's <disfmarker> we 're just proposing <pause> a minimal preservation of things on boards ,
speaker: B
text: Yeah . I definitely won't participate if there 's a camera .
speaker: H
text: sp spatial organization <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: And you could anonymize the faces for that matter .
speaker: H
text: You know , I mean , this is <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: We can talk about the <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: But , you know , that 's a lot of infrastructure and work .
speaker: H
text: It 's just one snapshot .
speaker: G
text: To set it up and then anonymize it ?
speaker: B
text: No , it wa n not , um <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: We 're not talking about a movie .
speaker: A
text: No , no , no , no .
speaker: H
text: We 're talking about a snapshot .
speaker: B
text: Not for <disfmarker> not for CMU .
speaker: A
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: They have a pretty crude set - up .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: And they had <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: they just turn on these cameras .
speaker: B
text: They were <disfmarker> they were not moving or anything .
speaker: G
text: Couldn't find it ?
speaker: B
text: And stored it on analog media .
speaker: G
text: Hmm ?
speaker: H
text: Hmm .
speaker: B
text: And they <disfmarker> they didn't actually align it or anything .
speaker: B
text: They just <disfmarker> they have it , though .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Well , it 's worth considering .
speaker: H
text: Maybe we don't want to <disfmarker> spend that much more time discussing it ,
speaker: F
text: Did they store it digitally ,
speaker: H
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: or <disfmarker> ?
speaker: B
text: Hmm - mm .
speaker: B
text: I think they just <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: or just put it on videotape ?
speaker: B
text: I think they just had the videotapes with a c you know , a counter or something .
speaker: B
text: Um ,
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Well , I think for <disfmarker> I mean , for our purposes we probably will d
speaker: B
text: I 'm not sure .
speaker: D
text: we <disfmarker> we might try that some
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> and we certainly already have some recordings that don't have that ,
speaker: D
text: uh , which , you know , we we 'll <disfmarker> we 'll get other value out of , I think .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Th
speaker: H
text: The thing is , if it 's easy to collect it <disfmarker> it th then I think it 's a wise thing to do
speaker: H
text: because once it 's gone it 's gone .
speaker: H
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: I 'm just <disfmarker> The community <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: If LDC collects this data <disfmarker> u I mean , and L - if Mark Liberman is a strong proponent of how they collect it and what they collect , there will probably be some video data in there .
speaker: D
text: There you go .
speaker: B
text: And so that could argue for us not doing it
speaker: B
text: or it could argue for us doing it .
speaker: B
text: The only place where it sort of overlaps is when some of the summarization issues are <disfmarker> actually could be , um , easier <disfmarker> made easier if you had <pause> the video .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: I think at the moment we should be determining this on the basis of our own , uh , interests and needs rather than hypothetical ones from a community thing .
speaker: D
text: As you say , if they <disfmarker> <vocalsound> if they decide it 's really critical then they will collect a lot more data than we can afford to ,
speaker: D
text: uh , and <disfmarker> and will include all that .
speaker: B
text: Mmm .
speaker: D
text: Um ,
speaker: D
text: I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I 'm not worried about the cost of setting it up .
speaker: A
text: e
speaker: D
text: I 'm worried about the cost of people looking at it .
speaker: D
text: In other words , it 's <disfmarker> it <disfmarker> it 'd be kind of silly to collect it all and not look at it at all .
speaker: D
text: And so I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I think that we do have to do some picking and choosing of the stuff that we 're doing .
speaker: D
text: But I <disfmarker> I am int I do think that we m minimally want <disfmarker> something <disfmarker> we might want to look at <disfmarker> at some <disfmarker> some , uh , subsets of that .
speaker: D
text: Like for a meeting like this , at least , uh , take a Polaroid of the <disfmarker> <vocalsound> of the <disfmarker> of the boards ,
speaker: B
text: Of the board .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Or at least make sure that the note - taker takes a sh you know , a snapshot of the board .
speaker: H
text: Exactly .
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: a
speaker: D
text: and know the position of the people <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: That 'll make it a lot easier for meetings that are structured .
speaker: H
text: Exactly .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: I mean , otherwise later on if nobody wrote this stuff on the board down we 'd have a harder time summarizing it or agreeing on a summary .
speaker: H
text: We <disfmarker> And it <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Especially since this is common knowledge .
speaker: H
text: I mean , this is shared knowledge among all the participants ,
speaker: H
text: and it 's a shame to keep it off the recording .
speaker: H
text: s
speaker: G
text: Uh , except in <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: er , if we weren't recording this , this <disfmarker> this would get lost . Right ?
speaker: H
text: Well , I don't understand that point .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: I mean , I just think that the <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: The point is that we 're not saving it anyway .
speaker: G
text: Right ?
speaker: H
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: In <disfmarker> in <pause> our real - life setting .
speaker: A
text: What do you mean we 're not saving it anyway ?
speaker: A
text: I 've written all of this down and it 's getting emailed to you .
speaker: C
text: And you 're gonna send it out by email , too .
speaker: G
text: Well , uh , in that case we don't need to take pictures of it .
speaker: B
text: Right . That would be the other alternative , to make sure that anything that was on the board , um , is in the record .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Well , that 's why <disfmarker> that 's why I 'm saying that I think the note - taking would be <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I think in many <disfmarker> for many meetings there will be some sort of note - taking ,
speaker: A
text: in which case , that 's a useful thing to have <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Uh , I mean , we <disfmarker> uh , we don't need to require it .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Just like the <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I mean , I think it would be great if we try to get a picture with every meeting .
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: H
text: I agree .
speaker: A
text: so <disfmarker> so we won't worry about requiring these things ,
speaker: A
text: but the more things that we can get it for , the more useful it will be for various applications .
speaker: D
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: So .
speaker: D
text: So , I mean , departing for the moment from the data collection question but actually talking about , you know , this group and what we actually want to do ,
speaker: D
text: uh , so I guess that 's th the way <disfmarker> what you were figuring on doing was <disfmarker> was <disfmarker> was , uh , putting together some notes and sending them to <disfmarker> to everybody
speaker: D
text: from <disfmarker> from today ?
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: So .
speaker: D
text: Um <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: That 's great .
speaker: D
text: So <disfmarker> <vocalsound> so the question <comment> that <disfmarker> that we started with was whether there was anything else we should do during <disfmarker> during th during the collection .
speaker: B
text: Ow .
speaker: D
text: And I guess the CrossPads was certainly one idea ,
speaker: D
text: uh , and we 'll get them from him and we 'll just do that .
speaker: D
text: Right ?
speaker: D
text: And then the next thing we talked about was the <disfmarker> was the summaries
speaker: D
text: and are we gonna do anything about that .
speaker: A
text: Well , before we leave the CrossPads and <disfmarker> and call it done .
speaker: D
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: A
text: So , if I 'm collecting data then there is this question of do I use CrossPads ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: So , I think that if we really seriously have me collect data and I can't use CrossPads , it 's probably less useful for you guys to go to the trouble of using it ,
speaker: A
text: um , unless you think that the CrossPads are gonna <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: n
speaker: A
text: I 'm not <disfmarker> I 'm not sure what they 're gonna do .
speaker: A
text: But <disfmarker> but having a small percentage of the data with it ,
speaker: A
text: I 'm not sure whether that 's useful or not .
speaker: D
text: What <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Maybe <disfmarker> maybe it 's no big deal .
speaker: A
text: Maybe we just do it and see what happens .
speaker: D
text: I guess the point was to try <disfmarker> again , to try to collect more information that could be useful later for <disfmarker> for the UI stuff .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: So it 's sort of Landay supplying it
speaker: D
text: so that Landay 's stuff can be easier to do .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: So it <disfmarker> it <disfmarker> Right now he 's g operating from zero ,
speaker: A
text: Nothing .
speaker: D
text: and so even if we didn't get it done from UW , it seems like that would <disfmarker> could still <disfmarker> You shou
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: I mean , at least try it .
speaker: B
text: I think it 'd be useful to have a small amount of it just as a proof of concept .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: It will <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: And <disfmarker> and they seem to <pause> not be able to give enough of them away ,
speaker: B
text: You know , what you can do with things .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: so we could probably get more as well .
speaker: B
text: Yeah . But not <disfmarker> not to rely on them for <pause> basic modeling .
speaker: A
text: That 's true .
speaker: A
text: So if it <disfmarker> if it seems to be really useful to you guys , we could probably get a donation to me .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , I 'm not sure .
speaker: G
text: I think it it <disfmarker> it will again depend on Landay ,
speaker: G
text: and if he has a student who 's interested ,
speaker: G
text: and how much infrastructure we 'll need .
speaker: G
text: I mean , if it 's easy , we can just do it .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Um , but if it requires a lot of our time , we probably won't do it .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: I guess a lot of the stuff we 're doing now really is pilot
speaker: D
text: in one sense or another .
speaker: G
text: Yeah . Yeah , we have to sort of figure out what we 're gonna do .
speaker: D
text: And so we try it out and see how it works .
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: I just wouldn't base any of the modeling on having those .
speaker: G
text: Right . I ag I think I agree with that .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: It 's just <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: I think , though , the importance marking is a <pause> good idea , though .
speaker: G
text: That if <disfmarker> if people have something in front of them <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: I 'd be sort of cool .
speaker: B
text: I mean , it would <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: That w shouldn't be hard for <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Do it on pilots or laptops or something .
speaker: G
text: OK , if something 's important everyone clap .
speaker: A
text: OK . So CrossPads , we 're just gonna try it and see what happens .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: Yeah . Um , I think that 's right .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: The note - taking <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: So , I <disfmarker> I think that this is gonna be useful .
speaker: A
text: So if we record data I will definitely ask for it .
speaker: A
text: So , I j I think we should just say this is not <disfmarker> we don't want to put any extra burden on people , but if they happen to generate minutes , could <disfmarker> could they send it to us ?
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Oh , OK . That 's fine .
speaker: G
text: Absolutely .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: And then <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah . What I was gonna say is that I don't want to ask people to do something they wouldn't normally do in a meeting .
speaker: G
text: It 's ver I just want to keep away from the artificiality .
speaker: G
text: But I think it <pause> definitely
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: if they exist .
speaker: G
text: And then Jane 's idea of summarization afterward I think is not a bad one .
speaker: G
text: Um ,
speaker: G
text: picking out <disfmarker> basically to let you pick out keywords ,
speaker: G
text: um , and , uh , construct queries .
speaker: D
text: So who <disfmarker> who does this summarization ?
speaker: H
text: Yeah , I 'm thinking that <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: People in the meeting .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: You know , just at <disfmarker> at the end of the meeting , before you go ,
speaker: H
text: Uh - huh .
speaker: B
text: Without hearing each other though , probably .
speaker: G
text: go around the table .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: Or even just have one or two people stay behind .
speaker: G
text: Ugh .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: People with radio mikes can go into separate rooms and continue recording without hearing each other .
speaker: E
text: That 's the nice thing .
speaker: B
text: Well , then you should try them a few weeks later
speaker: H
text: How fascinating .
speaker: B
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: And see <disfmarker> score them ?
speaker: B
text: They have all these memory experiments about how little you actually retain
speaker: E
text: That 's right .
speaker: E
text: Well , that 's the interesting thing , though .
speaker: B
text: and wasn't <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: If we do <disfmarker> if we collect four different summaries , you know , we 're gonna get all this weird data about how people perceive things differently .
speaker: G
text: Oh .
speaker: G
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: It 's like <comment> this is not what we meant to research .
speaker: B
text: Right , right .
speaker: D
text: Oh .
speaker: H
text: That could be very interesting .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Ru
speaker: A
text: But <disfmarker> but again , like the CrossPads , I don't think I would base a lot of stuff on it ,
speaker: G
text: I d
speaker: G
text: yeah , I don't know how you would do it , though .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: because I think <disfmarker> I know when I see the <disfmarker> the clock coming near the end of the meeting , I 'm like inching towards the door .
speaker: G
text: Running to <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah ,
speaker: G
text: fff !
speaker: A
text: So ,
speaker: E
text: Hmm .
speaker: A
text: you 're probably not gonna get <pause> a lot of people wanting to do this .
speaker: H
text: Well , I think if <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Maybe e Is email easier ?
speaker: G
text: I mean , I <disfmarker> when you first said do <disfmarker> do it , um , spoken , what I was thinking is , oh then people have to come up
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: and you have to hook them up to the recorder .
speaker: G
text: So , if they 're already here I think that 's good ,
speaker: G
text: but if they 're not already here for <disfmarker> I 'd rather do email .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , I 'd just try <disfmarker> Well , however the least intrusive and <disfmarker> and quickest way is ,
speaker: G
text: I 'm much faster typing than anything else .
speaker: H
text: and th and closest to the meeting time too ,
speaker: H
text: cuz people will start to forget it as soon as they l leave .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Yeah . I think that <disfmarker> I think doing it orally at the end of the meeting is the best time .
speaker: G
text: I don't know .
speaker: G
text: At <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: I just don't <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: because they 're kind of a captive audience .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Once they leave ,
speaker: A
text: you know , forget it .
speaker: A
text: But <disfmarker> but i
speaker: G
text: Yeah , read the digits ,
speaker: G
text: do the summary .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: But , uh , I don't think that they 'll necessarily <disfmarker> you 'll <disfmarker> you 'll get many people willing to stay .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: w
speaker: A
text: But , you know , if you get even one <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I would s
speaker: D
text: Well , I think it 's like the note - taking thing ,
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: that <disfmarker> that y that you can't <disfmarker> certainly can't require it
speaker: D
text: or people aren't gonna want to do this .
speaker: D
text: But <disfmarker> but if there 's some cases where they will , then it would be helpful .
speaker: H
text: And I 'm also wondering , couldn't that be included in the data sample
speaker: F
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: so that you could increase the num you know , the words that are , uh , recognized by a particular individual ?
speaker: H
text: If you could include the person 's meeting stuff and also the person 's summary stuff , maybe that would be uh ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: an ad addition to their database .
speaker: E
text: It 's kind of nice .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: Under the same acoustic circumstance ,
speaker: H
text: cuz if they just walk next door with their set - up , nothing 's changed ,
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: just <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: So I have a question about queries ,
speaker: G
text: God , that 's bugging me .
speaker: F
text: which is , um ,
speaker: H
text: You turn <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Can we turn that light off ?
speaker: F
text: uh <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: If <disfmarker> can we turn that just <disfmarker> that <disfmarker> that let <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Uh , let the record show the light is flickering .
speaker: D
text: The fl the fluorescent light is flickering .
speaker: F
text: I don't know .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , there 's a <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Oh , it is <disfmarker> it is like <disfmarker> OK .
speaker: G
text: Very annoying .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: There you go .
speaker: G
text: Oh , much better .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: C
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: Good .
speaker: A
text: For a little while I thought it was just that I was really tired .
speaker: C
text: That 's better .
speaker: G
text: Too much caffeine .
speaker: A
text: That and y <comment> Too much caffeine and really tired ,
speaker: A
text: but then I thought " no , maybe that 's real " .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: F
text: So ,
speaker: G
text: I thought it was the projector for a moment .
speaker: G
text: It was like , " what 's going on ? "
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: the question I had about queries was , um , so what we 're planning to do is have people look at the summaries and then generate queries ?
speaker: G
text: We <disfmarker> we 've just been talking , how do we generate queries ?
speaker: F
text: Are <disfmarker> are we gonna try and o
speaker: F
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: And so that was one suggestion .
speaker: F
text: Well , I mean ,
speaker: F
text: so , the question I had is is have we given any thought to how we would generate queries automatically given a summary ?
speaker: F
text: I mean , I think that 's a whole research topic un unto itself ,
speaker: D
text: Mmm .
speaker: F
text: so that it may not be a feasible thing .
speaker: F
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: n
speaker: E
text: Hello .
speaker: E
text: Dan here .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Shouldn't Landay and his group be in charge of figuring out how to do this ?
speaker: B
text: I mean , this is an issue that goes a little bit beyond where <pause> we are right now .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: B
text: They 're the expert
speaker: E
text: Mari ?
speaker: A
text: Yeah ?
speaker: E
text: Someone wants to know when you 're getting picked up .
speaker: E
text: Is someone picking you up ?
speaker: A
text: Um , <vocalsound> what 's our schedule ?
speaker: D
text: Well , you still wanted to talk with Liz .
speaker: A
text: Let 's see ,
speaker: A
text: you and I need dis Uh ,
speaker: D
text: And you and I need to
speaker: A
text: no , we did the Liz talk .
speaker: D
text: Oh , oh . You already did the Liz talk .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: So <disfmarker> so that was the prosody thing .
speaker: B
text: We - <vocalsound> I don't remember it .
speaker: A
text: Um , we need to finish the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: A
text: It 's already four - fifteen .
speaker: B
text: I have like no recall memory .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Uh , after .
speaker: A
text: We need to <pause> finish this discussion , and you
speaker: A
text: and I need a little time for wrap - up and quad chart .
speaker: A
text: So ,
speaker: G
text: And what ?
speaker: D
text: I 'm at your disposal .
speaker: A
text: um <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: So , up to you .
speaker: A
text: Um , what <disfmarker> what 's the plan for this discussion ?
speaker: A
text: We should <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Um , I think we should be able to wind up in another half - hour or something ,
speaker: G
text: At least . Yeah .
speaker: D
text: you think ?
speaker: G
text: m i Even if that much ?
speaker: A
text: Uh , less .
speaker: G
text: Less .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Less ?
speaker: A
text: So , I think <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: It 's interesting that he 's got , like , <pause> this discussion free
speaker: D
text: Well , I mean , we still haven't talked about the action items from here and so on .
speaker: A
text: Action <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: So ,
speaker: B
text: yet it 's separate .
speaker: D
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: e e why don't you say five - thirty ?
speaker: E
text: OK , five - thirty .
speaker: A
text: I don't <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Is that OK ?
speaker: A
text: We 'll probably hit horrible traffic .
speaker: E
text: Sounds <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: h Thanks , bye .
speaker: A
text: That 's not a lot of time ,
speaker: E
text: That 's that .
speaker: A
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Well , in answer to " is it Landay 's problem ? " ,
speaker: G
text: um , he doesn't have a student who 's interested right now in doing anything .
speaker: G
text: So he has very little manpower .
speaker: G
text: Um , there 's very little allocated for him
speaker: G
text: and also he 's pretty focused on user interface .
speaker: G
text: So I don't think he wants to do information retrieval ,
speaker: G
text: query generation , that sort of stuff .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , well there 's gonna be these student projects that can do some things
speaker: D
text: but it can't be , yeah , very deep .
speaker: D
text: u I <disfmarker> I actually think that <disfmarker> that , uh , again , just as a bootstrap , <comment> if we do have something like summaries , then having the people who are involved in the meetings themselves , who are cooperative and willing to do yet more , come up with <disfmarker> with <disfmarker> with queries , uh , could at least give <disfmarker> give Landay an idea of the kind of things that people might want to know .
speaker: D
text: I mean , ye
speaker: D
text: Right ?
speaker: D
text: If he doesn't know anything about the area , and <disfmarker> the people are talking about and <disfmarker> and , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: But the people will just look at the summaries or the minutes and re and sort of back - generate the queries .
speaker: B
text: That 's what I 'm worried about .
speaker: B
text: So you might as well just give him the summaries .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: And <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Maybe .
speaker: F
text: Well , I 'm not sure <disfmarker> I 'm not sure that 's a solved problem .
speaker: G
text: y Well , but I think <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Right ?
speaker: B
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: F
text: Of how to <disfmarker> how to generate queries from a <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: How to do this
speaker: G
text: I , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: from the summary .
speaker: F
text: That was sort of what my <pause> question was <pause> aimed towards .
speaker: B
text: So what you want to h to do is , people who were there , who later see , uh , minutes and s put in summary form , which is not gonna be at the same time as the meeting . There 's no way that can happen . Are we gonna later go over it
speaker: A
text: Hmm .
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: B
text: and , like , make up some stuff to which these notes would be an answer ,
speaker: B
text: or <disfmarker> or a deeper <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Or <disfmarker> or just a memory refresher .
speaker: B
text: I mean <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: But that 's done off <disfmarker> they have to do that off - line .
speaker: G
text: Yep . I agree .
speaker: H
text: I 'm also wondering if we could ask the <disfmarker> the people a <disfmarker> a question
speaker: B
text: You
speaker: H
text: which would be " what was the most interesting thing you got out of this meeting ? "
speaker: H
text: Becau - in terms of like informativeness ,
speaker: B
text: That 's a good one .
speaker: H
text: it might be , you know , that the summary would <disfmarker> would not in even include what the person thought was the most interesting fact .
speaker: D
text: I would think that would be the most likely thing .
speaker: B
text: Dan doesn't know what sex he is .
speaker: E
text: Yeah , really .
speaker: A
text: But actually I would say that 's a better thing to ask than have them summarize the meeting .
speaker: H
text: I think you get two different types of information .
speaker: A
text: You get two <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Yeah , that 's true .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Because you get , like , the general structure of important points and what the <disfmarker> what the meeting was about .
speaker: D
text: Hey .
speaker: B
text: Ah
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: We 're still here .
speaker: H
text: So you get the general structure , the important points of what the meeting was about <pause> with the summary .
speaker: H
text: But with the " what 's the most interesting thing you learned ? " <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Uh , so the fact that , uh , I know that Transcriber uses Snack is something that I thought was interesting
speaker: B
text: Going to see the kids .
speaker: E
text: You <disfmarker> you can keep it on .
speaker: H
text: and that <disfmarker> and that Dan worked on <disfmarker> on that .
speaker: H
text: So I thought that was really <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: you know .
speaker: H
text: So , I mean , you could ge pick up some of the micro items that wouldn't even occur as major headings
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: but could be very informative .
speaker: A
text: Yeah , that 's actually a really good idea .
speaker: H
text: I think it wouldn't be too , uh , uh , cost - intensive either .
speaker: H
text: You know , I mean , it 's like something someone can do pretty easily on the spur of the moment .
speaker: C
text: Are you thinking about just asking one participant or all of them ?
speaker: G
text: As many are willing to do it .
speaker: C
text: Make it a voluntary thing ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Cuz you 'll get <disfmarker> cuz you 'll get very different answers from everybody , right ?
speaker: C
text: and then <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Yeah . That 's why I was wondering .
speaker: E
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Well , maybe one thing we could do is for the meetings we 've already done <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: I mean , I <disfmarker> we didn't take minutes and we don't have summaries .
speaker: G
text: But , uh , people could , like , listen to them a little bit and <pause> generate some queries .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Of course Jane doesn't need to .
speaker: G
text: I 'm sure you have that meeting memorized by now .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: But actually it would be an easy thing to just go around the room and say <pause> what was the most interesting thing you learned ,
speaker: G
text: Mmm .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: for those pe people willing to stay .
speaker: H
text: And that <disfmarker> I think it would pick up the micro - structure , the <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: some <disfmarker> some of the little things that would be hidden .
speaker: A
text: And <disfmarker> and that might be something people are willing to stay for .
speaker: D
text: Boy , I <disfmarker> I don't know how we get at this <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: That would be interesting .
speaker: G
text: Or want to get up and leave .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , but when you go around the room you might just get the effect that somebody says something
speaker: C
text: and then you go around the room and they say " yeah , me too , I agree . "
speaker: G
text: Me too , me too , me too .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: On the other hand people might try and come up with different ones , right ?
speaker: A
text: That 's fine .
speaker: C
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: They might say " oh , I was gonna say that one
speaker: G
text: Well ,
speaker: E
text: but now I have to think of something else " .
speaker: G
text: you have the other thing , that <disfmarker> that they know why we 're doing it .
speaker: G
text: We 'll <disfmarker> I mean , we 'll <disfmarker> we 'll be telling them that the reason we 're trying to do this is <disfmarker> is to d generate queries in the future ,
speaker: G
text: so try to pick things that other people didn't say .
speaker: D
text: It 's gonna take some thought .
speaker: D
text: I mean ,
speaker: D
text: It seemed <disfmarker> <vocalsound> The kind of , uh , interest that I had in this thing initially was , uh , that i basically the form that you 're doing something else <pause> later ,
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: and you want to pick up something from this meeting related to the something else .
speaker: D
text: So it 's really the imp the <disfmarker> the list of what 's important 's in the something else
speaker: E
text: Mmm .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: rather than the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: And it might be something minor <disfmarker> of minor importance to the meeting .
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Uh , in fact if <disfmarker> if it was really major , if it 's the thing that really stuck in your head , then you might not need to go back and <disfmarker> and <disfmarker> and check on it even .
speaker: D
text: So it 's <disfmarker> it 's that you 're trying to find <disfmarker> <comment> You 're <disfmarker> you 've now <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: You weren't interested <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Say I <disfmarker> I said " well , I wasn't that much interested in dialogue ,
speaker: D
text: I 'm more of an acoustics person " .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: But <disfmarker> but thr three months from now if for some reason I get really interested in dialogue , and I 'm " well what is <disfmarker> what was that part that <disfmarker> that <disfmarker> that , uh , Mari was saying ? "
speaker: G
text: Yeah , like Jim Bass says " add a few lines on dialogue in your next perf "
speaker: A
text: Uh <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: And then I 'm trying to fi I mean , that 's <disfmarker> that 's when I look <disfmarker> in general when I look things up most , is when it 's something that <vocalsound> didn't really stick in my head the first time around
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> but for some <comment> new reason I 'm <disfmarker> I 'm <disfmarker> I 'm interested in <disfmarker> in <disfmarker> in the old stuff .
speaker: G
text: But that <disfmarker> that 's gonna be very hard to generate .
speaker: D
text: So , I don't <disfmarker> I don't know .
speaker: A
text: Well , I <disfmarker> That 's hard to generate
speaker: F
text: Do we <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: and <disfmarker> and I think that 's half of what i I would use it for .
speaker: A
text: But I also a lot of times um , make <disfmarker> you know , think to myself " this is interesting ,
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: I 've gotta come back and follow up on it " .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: So , things that I think are interesting , um , I would be , uh , wanting to do a query about .
speaker: A
text: And also , I like the idea of going around the room ,
speaker: A
text: because if somebody else thought something was interesting , I 'd kind of want to know about it
speaker: A
text: and then I 'd want to follow up on it .
speaker: E
text: Hmm .
speaker: D
text: Yeah . That <disfmarker> that might get at some of what I was <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: I was concerned about , uh , being interested in something later that w uh , I didn't consider to be important the first time ,
speaker: D
text: which for me is actually the dominant thing ,
speaker: D
text: because if I thought it was really important it tends to stick more than if I didn't ,
speaker: D
text: but some new <pause> task comes along that makes me want to look up .
speaker: G
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: But what 's interesting to me may not b have been interesting to you .
speaker: D
text: Yeah . So having multiple people might get at some of that .
speaker: G
text: By <disfmarker> so by going around <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , I <disfmarker> I think <pause> you can't get at all of it ,
speaker: G
text: right ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: W we just need to start somewhere .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , and this is a starting point .
speaker: F
text: The question <disfmarker> the question then is h h how much bias do we introduce by <disfmarker> you know , introduce by saying , you know , this was important now
speaker: H
text: Uh - huh .
speaker: F
text: and , you know , maybe tha something else is important later ?
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: I mean , does it <disfmarker> does the bias matter ?
speaker: F
text: I <disfmarker> I don't know .
speaker: F
text: I mean , uh , that 's , I guess , a question for you guys .
speaker: F
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Well , and <disfmarker> and one thing , we <disfmarker> we 're saying " important " and we 're saying " interesting " .
speaker: H
text: And <disfmarker> and those <disfmarker> those can be two different things .
speaker: F
text: Uh , yeah , yeah .
speaker: F
text: Sure , sure .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: But I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I guess that 's the question , really , is that <disfmarker> I mean ,
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: W
speaker: F
text: does building queries based on what 's important now introduce an irreversible bias on being able to do what Morgan wants to do later ?
speaker: H
text: OK , good .
speaker: D
text: Well , irreversible .
speaker: F
text: That 's <disfmarker> that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I mean , I guess what I what I <disfmarker> I keep coming back to in my own mind is that , um , the soonest we can do it , we need to get up some kind of system
speaker: F
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: so that people who 've been involved in the meeting can go back later ,
speaker: D
text: even if it 's a poor system in some ways ,
speaker: D
text: and , uh <disfmarker> and ask the questions that they actually want to know .
speaker: D
text: If <disfmarker> you know , if <disfmarker> uh , as soon as we can get that going at any kind of level , then I think we 'll have a much better handle on what kind of questions people want to ask than in any <disfmarker> anything we do before that .
speaker: D
text: But obviously we have to bootstrap somehow ,
speaker: F
text: Sure .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: I agree .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: I will say that <disfmarker> that I <disfmarker> I chose " interesting "
speaker: H
text: because I think it includes also " important "
speaker: H
text: in some cases .
speaker: H
text: But , um , I <disfmarker> I <disfmarker> I feel like the summary gets <pause> at a different type of information .
speaker: F
text: I think " important " can often be uninteresting .
speaker: E
text: Mmm .
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: H
text: Well , and <disfmarker> and also <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: And " interesting " is more interesting than " important " .
speaker: H
text: i it puts a lot of burden on the person to <disfmarker> to evaluate .
speaker: H
text: You know , I think inter " interesting " is <disfmarker> is non - threatening in <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: OK - OK .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: In the interest of , um ,
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Importance ?
speaker: A
text: generati <comment> generating an interesting summary , <comment> um <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: No , i in the interest of generating some minutes here ,
speaker: A
text: uh , and also moving on to action items and other things ,
speaker: A
text: let me just go through the things that I wrote down as being important ,
speaker: A
text: um , that we at least decided on .
speaker: A
text: CrossPads we were going to try ,
speaker: A
text: um , if Landay can get the , uh <disfmarker> get them to <disfmarker> to you guys ,
speaker: A
text: um , and see if they 're interesting .
speaker: A
text: And if they are , then we 'll try to get m do it more .
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: A
text: getting electronic summary from a note - taking person if they happen to do it anyway .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: A
text: getting <pause> just , uh , digital pictures <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: a couple digital pictures of the <disfmarker> the table and boards to set the context of the meeting .
speaker: A
text: Uh , and then going around the room at the end to just say <disfmarker> qu ask people to mention something interesting that they learned .
speaker: A
text: So rather than say the most interesting thing , something interesting ,
speaker: H
text: k
speaker: H
text: Sure .
speaker: A
text: and that way you 'll get more variety .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: That 's good .
speaker: G
text: I wouldn't even say that " that they learned " .
speaker: H
text: I like that .
speaker: H
text: I like that .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Uh , you might want to mention something that <disfmarker> that you brought up .
speaker: A
text: " Thing <pause> that was <pause> discussed . "
speaker: A
text: And then the last thing c would be for those people who are willing to stay afterwards and give an oral summary .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: OK ?
speaker: A
text: Does that pretty much cover everything we talked about ?
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: That <disfmarker> well , that we want to do ?
speaker: H
text: A
speaker: H
text: And one <disfmarker> and one qualification on <disfmarker> on the oral summaries .
speaker: H
text: They 'd be s they 'd be separate .
speaker: H
text: They wouldn't be hearing each other 's summaries .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , that 's like <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: n
speaker: G
text: I think that 's gonna predominantly end up being whoever <pause> takes down the equipment then .
speaker: H
text: And <disfmarker> and that would also be that the data would be included in the database .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , that would be , let 's see , me .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: E
text: I mean , there is still this hope that people might actually think of real queries they really want to ask at some point .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: And that if <disfmarker> if that ever should happen , then we should try and write them down .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: Give them a reward ,
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: a dollar a query ?
speaker: E
text: Yeah , really .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: If they 're real queries .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: OK . So <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Well , and again , if we can figure out a way to jimmy a <disfmarker> a <disfmarker> a <disfmarker> a very rough system , say in a year , then <disfmarker> uh , so that in the second and third years we <disfmarker> we actually have something to <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Play with and generate real queries from .
speaker: D
text: ask queries .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: Uh <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: So . Yeah .
speaker: B
text: I think <disfmarker> I just wanted to say one thing about queries .
speaker: B
text: I mean , <vocalsound> <vocalsound> the level of the query could be , you know , very low - level or very high - level .
speaker: B
text: And it gets fuzzier and fuzzier as you go up , right ?
speaker: G
text: Well , we 're gonna <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: So you need to have some sort of <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: if you start working with queries , some way of identifying what the <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: you know , if this is something that requires a <disfmarker> a one - word answer or it 's one place in the recording versus was there general agreement on this issue of all the people who ha
speaker: E
text: Hmm .
speaker: B
text: You know , you can gen you can ask queries that are meaningful for people .
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: B
text: In fact , they 're very meaningful
speaker: B
text: cuz they 're very high - level .
speaker: B
text: But they won't exist anywhere in the <pause> a you know <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Absolutely . So I think we 're gonna have to start with keywords
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: and <disfmarker> and if someone becomes more interested we could work our way up .
speaker: D
text: I I 'm <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: I I 'm not so sure I agree with that .
speaker: G
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: It <disfmarker> But it may well <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Really ?
speaker: D
text: Because <disfmarker> uh , b because it depends on , uh , what our goal is .
speaker: D
text: If our goal is Wizard of Oz - ish ,
speaker: G
text: Oh , that 's true .
speaker: D
text: we might want to know what is it that people would really like to know about this data .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: And if it 's <disfmarker> if <disfmarker> if it 's something that we don't know how to do yet , th great ,
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: D
text: that 's , you know , research project for year four or something .
speaker: E
text: Research , yeah .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: You know ?
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , I was thinking about Wizard of Oz ,
speaker: G
text: but it requires the wizard to know all about the meetings .
speaker: E
text: We 'd have to listen to all the data .
speaker: D
text: Um ,
speaker: D
text: well , not <disfmarker> maybe not true Wizard of Oz
speaker: G
text: So .
speaker: G
text: Oh , yeah . I <disfmarker> I understand .
speaker: D
text: because people are too
speaker: E
text: Well just imagine if <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: uh , aware of what 's going on .
speaker: D
text: But <disfmarker> but just <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Get people to ask questions that they def the machine definitely can't answer at the moment ,
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: E
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: w Just " what would you like to know ? "
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: But that <disfmarker> neither could anyone else , though , is what , uh , my point is .
speaker: E
text: Yes .
speaker: H
text: I I was wondering if <disfmarker> if there might be one s more source of queries
speaker: H
text: which is indicator phrases like " action item " ,
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: H
text: which could be obtained from the text <disfmarker> from the transcript .
speaker: G
text: Right . Since we have the transcript .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Dates maybe .
speaker: G
text: I don't know .
speaker: G
text: That 's something I always forget .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , that 's something to be determined , something to be specified ,
speaker: B
text: Well , probably if you have to sit there at the end of a meeting and say one thing you remember , it 's probably whatever action item was assigned to you .
speaker: H
text: but text - oriented .
speaker: B
text: I mean , in gen that 's all I remember from most meetings .
speaker: H
text: I think you 'd remember that , yeah .
speaker: G
text: That <disfmarker> that 's all I wrote down .
speaker: B
text: So , in general , I mean , that could be something you could say , right ?
speaker: B
text: I 'm supposed to <pause> do this .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , that 's true .
speaker: B
text: It <disfmarker> it doesn't <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Well , but then you could <disfmarker> you could prompt them to say , you know , " other than your action item " ,
speaker: H
text: you know , whatever .
speaker: H
text: But <disfmarker> but the action item would be a way to get , uh , maybe an additional query .
speaker: E
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: I mean , that 's realistically what people might <pause> well be remembering .
speaker: H
text: So .
speaker: B
text: So .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Well , but <disfmarker> you know , but you could get again @ @ <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Well , we 're piloting .
speaker: A
text: We 'll just do it and see what happens .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: I usually don't remember my action items .
speaker: D
text: But <disfmarker> <vocalsound> I 'd <disfmarker> I <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: OK - OK . Speaking of action items , can we move on to action items ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Yeah . yeah .
speaker: G
text: Sure . Can you hand me my note pad ?
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: A
text: or maybe we should wait until the summary of this <disfmarker> until this meeting is transcribed
speaker: A
text: and then we will hav
speaker: E
text: Yeah . Then we 'll know .
speaker: D
text: We <disfmarker> we had <disfmarker> I mean ,
speaker: G
text: Thanks .
speaker: D
text: somewhere up there we had milestones ,
speaker: D
text: but I guess <disfmarker> Did y did you get enough milestone , uh , from the description things ?
speaker: A
text: I got <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Yeah . In fact , why don't you hand me those transparencies so that I remember to take them .
speaker: A
text: eee ,
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: And , you know , there 's obviously <pause> detail behind each of those , as much as is needed .
speaker: D
text: So , you just have to <pause> let us know .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: What I have down for action items is we 're supposed to find out about our human subject , um , <vocalsound> requirements .
speaker: H
text: Good .
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: A
text: Uh ,
speaker: A
text: people are supposed to send me U R
speaker: A
text: for their <disfmarker> for web pages ,
speaker: A
text: to c and I 'll put together an overall cover .
speaker: A
text: And you 're s
speaker: E
text: Right . We <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Hmm ?
speaker: E
text: we need to look at our web page
speaker: E
text: and make one that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: And <disfmarker> and you also need to look at your web page
speaker: E
text: that 's p
speaker: G
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: and clean it up by mid - July .
speaker: E
text: PDA - free .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: let 's see .
speaker: A
text: Choo - choo - choo .
speaker: G
text: Mailing lists .
speaker: A
text: We <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Mailing list ?
speaker: A
text: Uh , you need to put together a mailing list .
speaker: D
text: Three of them .
speaker: D
text: Well <disfmarker> <vocalsound> I mean ,
speaker: A
text: Uh , I think w
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: uh ,
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: D
text: mostly together .
speaker: A
text: uh , I need to email Adam or Jane ,
speaker: A
text: um , about getting the data .
speaker: A
text: Who should I email ?
speaker: G
text: Uh , how quickly do you want it ?
speaker: A
text: Um .
speaker: G
text: My July is really very crowded .
speaker: G
text: And so , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: How about if I just c
speaker: A
text: Uh , Right now all I want <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I personally only want text data .
speaker: A
text: I think the only thing Jeff would do anything with right now <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: But I 'm just speaking fr based on a conversation with him two weeks ago I had in Turkey .
speaker: A
text: But I think all he would want is the digits .
speaker: A
text: Um , but I 'll just speak for myself .
speaker: A
text: I 'm interested in getting the language model data .
speaker: A
text: Eh , so I 'm just interested in getting transcriptions .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: So then just email you ?
speaker: H
text: So y
speaker: H
text: Sure , sure , sure .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: H
text: You could email to both of us , uh , just <disfmarker> I mean , if you wanted to .
speaker: D
text: Wh
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: I mean , I don't think either of us would mind recei
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: i
speaker: H
text: but <disfmarker> but in any case I 'd be happy to send you the <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: That 's right .
speaker: A
text: And your email is ?
speaker: D
text: i
speaker: H
text: Edwards at
speaker: H
text: ICSI .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: w
speaker: G
text: Dot Berkeley dot EDU , of course .
speaker: D
text: In <disfmarker> in our phone call , uh , before , we <disfmarker> we , uh <disfmarker> It turns out the way we 're gonna send the data is by , uh ,
speaker: A
text: And then <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: And , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: and then what they 're gonna do is take the CD - ROM and transfer it to analog tape
speaker: D
text: and <vocalsound> give it to a transcription service , uh , that will <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Oh , is this IBM ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , using foot pedals
speaker: H
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah , foot <disfmarker> foot pedals
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Uh , so do they <disfmarker> How are they gonna do the multi - channel ?
speaker: D
text: See , that 's a good question .
speaker: H
text: Yeah . They <disfmarker> they don't have a way .
speaker: G
text: I thought so .
speaker: H
text: But they have a verification .
speaker: D
text: No , I mean , it 'll be
speaker: G
text: Mix ?
speaker: D
text: probably about like you did ,
speaker: D
text: and then there will be some things <disfmarker> you know , many things that don't work out well .
speaker: D
text: And that 'll go back to IBM
speaker: D
text: and they 'll <disfmarker> they 'll , uh <disfmarker> they run their aligner on it
speaker: D
text: and it kicks out things that don't work well ,
speaker: D
text: which <disfmarker> you know , the overlaps will certainly be examples of that .
speaker: D
text: And , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: I mean , what w we will give them all of it . Right ?
speaker: D
text: We 'll give them all the <disfmarker> the multi - channel stuff
speaker: G
text: OK . That 's , uh , my question .
speaker: G
text: So we 'll give them all sixteen channels
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: and they 'll do whatever they want with it .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: But you also should probably give them the mixed <disfmarker> You know , equal sound - level <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah . <vocalsound> Good idea .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: I mean , they 're not gonna easily be able to do that , probably .
speaker: G
text: It 's not hard .
speaker: D
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Ah , yeah .
speaker: G
text: So .
speaker: D
text: It 's also won't be adding much to the data to give them the mixed .
speaker: F
text: But w
speaker: B
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: F
text: It 's not <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yep . Absolutely .
speaker: B
text: I
speaker: F
text: Right . It doesn't <disfmarker> it isn't difficult for us to do ,
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: B
text: i You should <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: so we might as well just do it .
speaker: G
text: Absolutely .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: You should <disfmarker> that may be all that they want to send off to their <pause> transcribers .
speaker: G
text: So , sure .
speaker: A
text: OK . Related to <disfmarker> to the conversation with Picheny ,
speaker: A
text: I need to email him , uh , my shipping address
speaker: A
text: and you need to email them something which you already did .
speaker: H
text: I did .
speaker: H
text: I <disfmarker> I m emailed them the Transcriber URL ,
speaker: H
text: um , the on - line , uh , data that Adam set up ,
speaker: H
text: The URL
speaker: H
text: so they can click on an utterance and hear it .
speaker: H
text: and I emailed them the str streamlined conventions
speaker: H
text: which you got a copy of today .
speaker: D
text: Right . And I was gonna m email them the <disfmarker> which I haven't yet , a pointer to <disfmarker> to the web pages that we <disfmarker> that we currently have ,
speaker: D
text: cuz in particular they want to see the one with the <disfmarker> the way the recording room is set up
speaker: H
text: Good .
speaker: D
text: and so on , your <disfmarker> your page on that .
speaker: H
text: Oh , excellent . Good .
speaker: G
text: And then p possibly <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I C - I CC ' ed Morgan .
speaker: H
text: I should have sent <disfmarker> I should have CC ' ed you as well .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: Not an immediate action item but something we do have to worry about is data formats for <disfmarker> for higher - level information .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: G
text: Well , or d or not even higher level ,
speaker: D
text: We were gonna <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: different level , prosody and all that sort of stuff .
speaker: G
text: We 're gonna have to figure out how we 're gonna annotate that .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , we w
speaker: A
text: Yeah . We never had our data format discussion .
speaker: H
text: Oh , I thought we did .
speaker: D
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: We discussed , uh , musi musical score notation
speaker: G
text: But that 's not <disfmarker> That 's display .
speaker: H
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: H
text: and its XML <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: That 's different than format .
speaker: A
text: That 's <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Well , um <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: W My <disfmarker> my u feeling right now on format is you guys have been doing all the work
speaker: E
text: Well <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: uh , yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: and whatever you want , we 're happy to live with .
speaker: H
text: OK , excellent .
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: other people may not agree with that ,
speaker: D
text: So , what n
speaker: D
text: important thing <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Well , it c
speaker: A
text: but <disfmarker> Cuz I 'm not actually touching the data ,
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: A
text: so I shouldn't be the one to talk .
speaker: A
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: No , I think that 's fine .
speaker: D
text: So a key thing will be that you <disfmarker> we tell you
speaker: H
text: Great .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: what it is .
speaker: F
text: " Here 's a mysterious file
speaker: D
text: Uh , we also had <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: and <disfmarker> "
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: We also had the , uh , uh <disfmarker> that we were s uh , that you were gonna get us the eight - hundred number
speaker: D
text: and we 're all gonna <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: D
text: we 're gonna call up your Communicator thing
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> and we 're gonna be good slash bad ,
speaker: D
text: depending on how you define it , uh , users .
speaker: C
text: Now , something that I mentioned earlier to Mari and Liz is that it 's probably important to get as many non - technical and non - speech people as possible
speaker: C
text: in order to get some realistic users .
speaker: C
text: So if you could ask other people to call and use our system , that 'd be good .
speaker: C
text: Cuz we don't want people who already know how to deal with dialogue systems ,
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: who know that
speaker: A
text: Or , <vocalsound> like if you have a <disfmarker>
speaker: C
text: you shouldn't hyper - articulate , for instance , and things like that .
speaker: A
text: Or , like if you have somebody who makes your <disfmarker> your plane reservations for you ,
speaker: C
text: So .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: um , which is
speaker: D
text: Yeah , we can do that .
speaker: A
text: the n
speaker: G
text: Get my parents to do it .
speaker: C
text: Yeah , for instance .
speaker: A
text: Yeah . Yeah . Seriously .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Your grandmother .
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: e You know , it could <pause> result in some good bloopers ,
speaker: A
text: which is always good for presentations .
speaker: A
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Um , anyway <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: I think my father would last through the second prompt before he hang <disfmarker> hung up .
speaker: D
text: My mother would have a very interesting conversation with it
speaker: A
text: Mmm .
speaker: G
text: He would never use it .
speaker: D
text: but it wouldn't have anything to do with the travel .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: Um , other <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Let 's see ,
speaker: A
text: other action items .
speaker: A
text: So I have the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: We talked about that we 're getting the recording equipment running at UW .
speaker: D
text: And so it depends ,
speaker: D
text: w e e e
speaker: D
text: they 're <disfmarker> you know , they 're p m
speaker: D
text: If that comes together within the next month , there at least will be , uh , uh , major communications between Dan and <vocalsound> UW folks
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: I mean ,
speaker: A
text: I 'm <disfmarker> I 'm shooting to try to get it done <disfmarker> get it put together by <pause> the beginning of August .
speaker: D
text: as to <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: we should talk about it ,
speaker: E
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Mmm .
speaker: A
text: So , um ,
speaker: D
text: But we have <disfmarker> it <disfmarker> it 's <disfmarker> it 's pretty <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: you know , if
speaker: D
text: We don't know .
speaker: D
text: I mean , he <disfmarker> he s uh , he said that it was sitting in some room collecting dust
speaker: A
text: We don't know .
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker> and so we don't know ,
speaker: D
text: i e
speaker: A
text: i It 's probably unlikely that we 'll pull this off ,
speaker: A
text: but a at least it 's worth trying .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: What is it ?
speaker: D
text: We don't know .
speaker: G
text: Oh , OK .
speaker: D
text: " Recording equipment . "
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: It 's a tape recorder .
speaker: D
text: W We know it 's eight channels .
speaker: D
text: Uh , we know it 's digital .
speaker: G
text: It 's eight tape recorders .
speaker: D
text: We don't even know if there 're microphones .
speaker: D
text: So ,
speaker: D
text: we 'll find out .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: Um , and I will email these notes <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Um , I 'm not sure what to do about action items for the data stuff ,
speaker: A
text: although , then somebody <disfmarker> I guess somebody needs to tell Landay that you want the pads .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , OK .
speaker: D
text: I 'll do that .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: Um , and he also said something about outside <disfmarker> there <disfmarker> that came up about the outside text sources , that he <disfmarker> he may have
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Oh !
speaker: D
text: some text sources that are close enough to the sort of thing that we can play with them for a language model .
speaker: C
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: Yeah , that was <disfmarker> uh , that was <disfmarker> What he was saying was this <disfmarker> he <disfmarker> this thing that , uh , Jason had been working on finds web pages that are thematically related to what you 're talking about .
speaker: E
text: Well , that 's the idea .
speaker: E
text: So that that <disfmarker> that would be a source of text which is <disfmarker> supposedly got the right vocabulary .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: E
text: But it 's obviously very different material .
speaker: E
text: It 's not spoken material , for instance ,
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: so <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: But it 's p it might be <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: But <disfmarker> but that 's actually what I wanna do .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: That 's <disfmarker> that 's what I wanna work with ,
speaker: A
text: is <disfmarker> is things that s the wrong material but the right da the right source .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Un - unfortunately Landay told me that Jason is not gonna be working on that anymore .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: He 's switching to other stuff again .
speaker: A
text: Yeah . He seemed <disfmarker> when I asked him if he could actually supply data , he seemed a little bit more reluctant .
speaker: A
text: So , I 'll <disfmarker> I 'll send him email .
speaker: A
text: I 'll put it in an action item that I send him email about it .
speaker: A
text: And if I get something , great .
speaker: A
text: If I don't get something <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Who ?
speaker: G
text: Landay or Jason ?
speaker: A
text: Landay .
speaker: G
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: And , uh , um ,
speaker: A
text: you know , otherwise , if you guys have any papers
speaker: A
text: or <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: I could <disfmarker> I could use , uh <disfmarker> I could use your web pages .
speaker: A
text: That 's what we could do .
speaker: A
text: You 've got all the web pages on the Meeting Recor
speaker: D
text: Yeah , why search for them ?
speaker: G
text: True .
speaker: D
text: They 're <disfmarker> we know where they are .
speaker: A
text: Yeah !
speaker: G
text: Absolutely .
speaker: D
text: Yeah , that 's true .
speaker: E
text: Sure .
speaker: A
text: Oh , forget this !
speaker: G
text: Well , but that 's not very much .
speaker: A
text: I <disfmarker> One less action item .
speaker: A
text: I can use what web pages there are out there on meeting recorders .
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: G
text: I mean , that <disfmarker> that 's <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah . Basically what his software does is h it picks out keywords and does a Google - like search .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: So we can <disfmarker> we can <disfmarker> we can do better than that .
speaker: E
text: We can do that . Yeah .
speaker: G
text: So you could <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: C
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: There 's <disfmarker> there 's some , uh , Carnegie Mellon stuff , right ?
speaker: D
text: On <disfmarker> on meeting recording ,
speaker: G
text: Yep .
speaker: B
text: And Xerox .
speaker: D
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: So , there 's <disfmarker> there 's ICSI , Xerox ,
speaker: D
text: And Xerox .
speaker: B
text: And there 's <disfmarker> You should l look under , like , intelligent environments ,
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: smart rooms ,
speaker: G
text: Um , the " Georgia Tech Classroom Two Thousand " is a good one .
speaker: B
text: um <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: CMU ,
speaker: B
text: Right . And then <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Right .
speaker: B
text: J There 's <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: th
speaker: B
text: That 's where I thought you would want to eventually be able to have a board or a camera ,
speaker: B
text: because of all these classroom <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: Well , Georgia Tech did a very elaborate instrumented room .
speaker: G
text: And I want to try to stay away from that .
speaker: B
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: So <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: Great . That solves that problem .
speaker: A
text: One less action item .
speaker: A
text: Um <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: OK . I think that 's good enou that 's <disfmarker> that 's pretty much all I can think of .
speaker: H
text: Can I ask , uh , one thing ?
speaker: H
text: It relates to data <disfmarker> data collection
speaker: H
text: and I <disfmarker> and I 'd <disfmarker> and we mentioned earlier today , this question of <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: um , so ,
speaker: H
text: um , I s I know that from <disfmarker> with the near - field mikes some of the problems that come with overlapping speech , uh , are lessened .
speaker: H
text: But I wonder if <disfmarker> Uh , is that sufficient or should we consider maybe getting some data gathered in such a way that , um , u w we would c uh , p have a meeting with less overlap than would otherwise be the case ?
speaker: H
text: So either by rules of participation , or whatever .
speaker: A
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: H
text: Now , I mean , you know , it 's true ,
speaker: H
text: I mean , we were discussing this earlier ,
speaker: H
text: that depending on the task <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: so if you 've got someone giving a report you 're not gonna have as much overlap .
speaker: F
text: Adam !
speaker: H
text: But , um ,
speaker: H
text: i i uh , so we 're gonna have s you know , non - overlapping samples anyway .
speaker: H
text: But , um , in a meeting which would otherwise be highly overlapping , is the near - field mike enough or should we have some rules of participation for some of our samples to lessen the overlap ?
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: E
text: turn off
speaker: A
text: I don't think we should have rules of participation ,
speaker: A
text: but I think we should try to <pause> get a variety of meetings .
speaker: A
text: That 's something that if we get the <disfmarker> the meeting stuff going at UW , that I probably can do more than you guys ,
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: cuz you guys are probably mostly going to get ICSI people here .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: But we can get anybody in EE , uh , over <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: and <disfmarker> and possibly also some CS people , uh , over at UW .
speaker: A
text: So , I think that <disfmarker> that there 's a good chance we could get more variety .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: H
text: Just want to be sure there 's enough data to <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: OK , good .
speaker: B
text: They 're still gonna overlap ,
speaker: A
text: Um ,
speaker: B
text: but <disfmarker> Mark and others have said that there 's quite a lot of found data <comment> from the discourse community that has this characteristic
speaker: B
text: and also the political <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Y you know , anything that was televised for a third party has the characteristic of not very much overlap .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Wasn - but w I think we were saying before also that the natural language group here had less overlap .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: So .
speaker: D
text: So it also depends on the style of the group of people .
speaker: B
text: Like the , um , dominance relations of the people in the meeting .
speaker: A
text: Right .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: On the task , and the task .
speaker: H
text: It 's just <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I just wanted to <disfmarker> uh ,
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: because you know , it is true people can modify the amount of overlap that they do if <disfmarker> if they 're asked to .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Not <disfmarker> not entirely modify it ,
speaker: H
text: but lessen it if <disfmarker> if it 's desired .
speaker: H
text: But if <disfmarker> if that 's sufficient data <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: I just wanted to be sure that we will not be having a lot of data which can't be processed .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: So I 'm just writing here , we 're not gonna try to specify rules of interaction
speaker: A
text: but we 're gonna try to get more variety by i using different <pause> groups of people
speaker: H
text: Time .
speaker: A
text: and different sizes .
speaker: H
text: Fine . And I <disfmarker> you know , I <disfmarker> I know that the near f near - field mikes will take care of also the problems to s to a certain degree .
speaker: A
text: e e
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: I just wanted to be sure .
speaker: A
text: And then the other thing might be , um , uh , technical versus administrative .
speaker: A
text: Cuz if I recorded some administrative meetings then that may have less overlap ,
speaker: A
text: because you might have more overlap when you 're doing something technical and disagreeing or whatever .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Well , I <disfmarker> just as <disfmarker> as <disfmarker> as a contributary <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: eh , so I <disfmarker> I know that in l in legal depositions people are pr are prevented from overlapping .
speaker: H
text: They 'll just say , you know <disfmarker> you know , " wait till each person is finished before you say something " .
speaker: H
text: So it is possible to lessen if we wanted to .
speaker: H
text: But <disfmarker> but these other factors are fine .
speaker: H
text: I just wanted to raise the issue .
speaker: A
text: Well , the reason why I didn't want to is be why I personally didn't want to <comment> is because I wanted it to be <pause> as , uh , unintrusive as possi
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: A
text: as you could be with these things hanging on you .
speaker: H
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , I think that 's always desired .
speaker: H
text: I just want to be sure we don't <disfmarker> that we 're able to process , i u uh , you know , as much data as we can .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Did they discuss any of that in the <disfmarker> the meeting they had with L Liberman ?
speaker: D
text: What <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: What <disfmarker> what do they <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: And there was a big division ,
speaker: B
text: so Liberman and others <pause> were interested in a lot of found data .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: So there 's lots of recordings that <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: They 're not close - talk mike ,
speaker: B
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: And <disfmarker> and there 's lots of television , you know , stuff on , um , political debates and things like that ,
speaker: B
text: congre congressional hearings .
speaker: B
text: Boring stuff like that .
speaker: B
text: Um ,
speaker: B
text: and then the CMU folks and I were sort of on the other side in <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: cuz they had collected a lot of meetings that were sort of like this
speaker: B
text: and said that those are nothing like these meetings .
speaker: B
text: Um , so there 're really two different kinds of data .
speaker: B
text: And , I guess we just left it as <disfmarker> @ @ <comment> that <pause> if there 's found data that can be transformed for use in speech recognition easily , then of course we would do it ,
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: but newly collected data would <disfmarker> would be natural meetings .
speaker: D
text: Actually , th @ @ <comment> the CMU folk have collected a lot of data .
speaker: B
text: So .
speaker: D
text: Is that <disfmarker> is that going to be publicly available ,
speaker: B
text: As far as I know , they h have not .
speaker: D
text: or <disfmarker> ?
speaker: D
text: OK .
speaker: B
text: Um , but e
speaker: G
text: It 's also <disfmarker> it 's not <disfmarker> it 's not near - far , right ?
speaker: B
text: I 'm not sure .
speaker: B
text: Um ,
speaker: B
text: if people were interested they could talk to them ,
speaker: B
text: but I <disfmarker> I got the feeling there was some politics involved .
speaker: G
text: I think @ @ gonna add that to one of my action items .
speaker: B
text: No .
speaker: D
text: Just to check .
speaker: D
text: Yeah . W we should know what 's out there certainly .
speaker: B
text: I <disfmarker> I don't know .
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: I mean , the <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: Cuz I had thought they 'd only done far - field ,
speaker: B
text: I think you need to talk to Waibel
speaker: B
text: and <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: intelligent - room sorts of things .
speaker: E
text: Oh , really ?
speaker: E
text: It 's those guys .
speaker: G
text: I hadn't known that then <disfmarker> they 'd done any more than that .
speaker: D
text: Oh , they only did the far - field ?
speaker: G
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: I see .
speaker: B
text: But they had multiple mikes
speaker: B
text: and they did do recognition ,
speaker: B
text: and they did do real conversations .
speaker: B
text: But as far as I know they didn't offer that data to the community at this meeting .
speaker: G
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: But that could change
speaker: B
text: cuz Mark <disfmarker> you know , Mark 's really into this .
speaker: B
text: We should keep in touch with him .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Yeah , I think <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Well , once we send out <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: I mean , we still haven't sent out the first note saying " hey , this list exists " .
speaker: D
text: But <disfmarker> but , uh , once we do that <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: Is that an action item ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah . It 's on <disfmarker> I already added that one on my board to do that .
speaker: D
text: So , uh <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: uh ,
speaker: D
text: hopefully everybody here is on that list .
speaker: D
text: We should at least check that everybody here <disfmarker> ?
speaker: G
text: I think everyone here is on the list .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: I 'm not .
speaker: H
text: u e e
speaker: G
text: I think you are .
speaker: D
text: We haven't sent anything to the list yet .
speaker: F
text: Oh !
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: D
text: We 're just compiling the list .
speaker: F
text: I see .
speaker: G
text: I <disfmarker> I added a few people who didn't <disfmarker> who I knew had to be on it even though they didn't tell me .
speaker: E
text: Who specifically ask not to be .
speaker: G
text: Like Jane , for example .
speaker: D
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: You are on it , aren't you ?
speaker: H
text: Yeah , I am .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: So , I w uh , just <disfmarker> just for clarification .
speaker: H
text: So " found data " ,
speaker: H
text: they mean like established corpora of linguistics and <disfmarker> and other fields , right ?
speaker: B
text: What they mean is stuff they don't have to fund to collect ,
speaker: H
text: It sounds like such a t
speaker: B
text: and especially good <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Yeah , OK .
speaker: B
text: Well , I mean , " found " has , uh , also the meaning that 's it very natural .
speaker: B
text: It 's things occur without any <disfmarker>
speaker: B
text: You know , the pe these people weren't wearing close - talking mikes ,
speaker: B
text: but they were recorded anyway , like the congressional hearings and , you know , for legal purposes or whatever .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: H
text: But it includes like standard corpora that have been used for years in linguistics and <pause> other fields .
speaker: B
text: Mark 's aware of those , too .
speaker: E
text: " Hey , look what we found ! "
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: B
text: That would be found data
speaker: G
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: Exactly .
speaker: B
text: because they found it <vocalsound> and it exists .
speaker: E
text: " I found this great corpora . "
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: B
text: They didn't have to collect it .
speaker: G
text: " Psst . <comment> Want to buy a corpora ? "
speaker: B
text: Of course it 's not " found " in the sense that at the time it was collected for the purpose .
speaker: H
text: Yeah . OK , OK .
speaker: B
text: But what he means is that <disfmarker> You know , Mark was really a fan of getting as much data as possible from <disfmarker> you know , reams and reams of stuff , of broadcast stuff ,
speaker: H
text: That 's interesting .
speaker: B
text: web stuff ,
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: B
text: TV stuff ,
speaker: B
text: radio stuff .
speaker: B
text: But he well understands that that 's very different than these <disfmarker> this type of meeting .
speaker: G
text: It 's not the same .
speaker: B
text: But , so what ?
speaker: B
text: It 's still <disfmarker> it 's interesting for other reasons .
speaker: H
text: OK .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: H
text: Just wanted to know .
speaker: D
text: So , seems like we 're winding down .
speaker: D
text: Right ?
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: D
text: Many <pause> ways .
speaker: E
text: So we should go <disfmarker> go around and s
speaker: B
text: You can <pause> tell <pause> by the <pause> prosody .
speaker: A
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: We should go around and say something interesting that happened at the meeting ?
speaker: A
text: Oh .
speaker: A
text: Yes , we should do that .
speaker: B
text: Rrrh !
speaker: G
text: Now , I was already thinking about it ,
speaker: G
text: so <disfmarker>
speaker: D
text: Oh ! Good man .
speaker: B
text: This is painful task .
speaker: C
text: Hmm .
speaker: G
text: So , um ,
speaker: B
text: I <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: I really liked the idea of <disfmarker>
speaker: G
text: what I thought was interesting was the combination of the CrossPad and the speech .
speaker: G
text: Especially , um , the interaction of them rather than just note - taking .
speaker: G
text: So , can you <pause> determine the interesting points by who 's writing ?
speaker: G
text: Can you do special gestures and so on that <disfmarker> that have , uh , special meaning to the corpora ?
speaker: G
text: I really liked that .
speaker: H
text: Well , I <disfmarker> I just realized there 's another category of interesting things
speaker: H
text: which is that , um ,
speaker: H
text: I <disfmarker> I found this discussion very , uh , i this <disfmarker> this question of how you get at queries really interesting .
speaker: H
text: And <disfmarker> and the <disfmarker> and I <disfmarker> and the fact that it 's sort of , uh , nebulous , what <disfmarker> what that <disfmarker> what kind of query it would be
speaker: H
text: because it depends on what your purpose is .
speaker: H
text: So I actually found that whole process of <disfmarker> of trying to think of what that would involve to be interesting .
speaker: H
text: But that 's not really a specific fact .
speaker: H
text: I just sort of thought we <disfmarker> we went around a nice discussion of the factors involved there ,
speaker: H
text: which I thought was worthwhile .
speaker: E
text: I had a real revelation about taking pictures .
speaker: E
text: I don't know why
speaker: E
text: I didn't do this before and I regret it .
speaker: E
text: So that was very interesting for me .
speaker: H
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: G
text: Did you take pictures of the boards ?
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Not that I <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: The boards aren't really related to this meeting .
speaker: E
text: I mean , I will take pictures of them ,
speaker: E
text: but <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: That 's a good point .
speaker: A
text: They 're related to this morning 's meeting .
speaker: E
text: But <disfmarker>
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: To the pre previous meeting . That 's right .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Well , that 's why I 'll take pictures of them , then .
speaker: F
text: I 'm gonna pass
speaker: F
text: because I can't <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: I mean , of the <disfmarker> Jane took my answer .
speaker: G
text: Ah !
speaker: H
text: Oh .
speaker: F
text: So .
speaker: F
text: Um ,
speaker: F
text: so I 'm gonna pass for the moment
speaker: F
text: but y come <disfmarker> come back to me .
speaker: E
text: For the moment .
speaker: B
text: Pass .
speaker: A
text: I think <disfmarker> I think " pass " is socially acceptable .
speaker: A
text: But I will say <disfmarker> uh , I will actually <disfmarker>
speaker: A
text: uh , a spin on different <disfmarker> slightly different spin on what you said ,
speaker: A
text: this issue of , uh , realizing that we could take minutes ,
speaker: A
text: and that actually may be a goal .
speaker: A
text: So that <disfmarker> that may be kind of the test <disfmarker> in a sense , test data ,
speaker: A
text: uh , the <disfmarker> the template of what we want to test against , generating a summary .
speaker: A
text: So that 's an interesting new twist on what we can do with this data .
speaker: C
text: I agree with Jane and Eric .
speaker: C
text: I think the question of how to generate queries automatically was the most interesting question that came up ,
speaker: C
text: and it 's something that , as you said , is a whole research topic in itself ,
speaker: C
text: so I don't think we 'll be able to do anything on it
speaker: C
text: because we don't have funding on it , uh , in this project .
speaker: C
text: But , um , <vocalsound> it 's definitely something I would <pause> want to do something on .
speaker: G
text: I wonder if work 's already been done on it .
speaker: H
text: Like e expert systems and stuff ,
speaker: H
text: or <disfmarker> ?
speaker: D
text: Hmm .
speaker: H
text: Uh - huh .
speaker: D
text: Well , being more management lately than <disfmarker> <vocalsound> than research , I think the thing that impressed me most was the people dynamics
speaker: D
text: and not any of the facts .
speaker: D
text: That is , I <disfmarker> I really enjoyed hanging out with this group of people today .
speaker: D
text: So that 's what really impressed me .
speaker: E
text: How are we gonna find that in the data ?
speaker: G
text: Well , if we had people wearing the wireless mikes all the time <disfmarker>
speaker: E
text: Oh , yeah .
speaker: G
text: Yeah , I think <disfmarker>
speaker: F
text: Well , I mean , one thing you could search for is were people laughing a lot .
speaker: F
text: Right ?
speaker: E
text: Right .
speaker: F
text: So .
speaker: E
text: How happy were they ?
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: I 'd probably search for something like that .
speaker: G
text: That actually has come up a couple times in queries .
speaker: G
text: I was talking to Landay
speaker: G
text: and that was one of his examples .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: G
text: When <disfmarker> when did people laugh ?
speaker: E
text: That 's great .
speaker: D
text: Find me a funny thing that Jeff said .
speaker: G
text: So we need a laugh detector .
speaker: D
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Yeah .
speaker: A
text: Mm - hmm .
speaker: H
text: Yeah .
speaker: E
text: Perfect .
speaker: G
text: Cuz that seems to be pretty common .
speaker: G
text: Not in the congressional hearings .
speaker: F
text: No .
speaker: G
text: Quiet sobbing .
speaker: D
text: So I think we 're done .
speaker: E
text: OK .
speaker: A
text: OK .
speaker: G
text: I think we 're done .
speaker: F
text: OK .
speaker: E
text: Great .
speaker: A
text: Great .
speaker: D
text: Great .
speaker: H
text: h Do we need <disfmarker> do I need to turn something off here , or I do unplug this , or <disfmarker> ?
speaker: D
text: Now these we turn off .
speaker: D
text: Right ?

Meeting summary:
text: The discussion concerned mainly ideas about data collection and the nature and generation of queries on meetings.
text: Meeting notes taken by participants as standard minutes or summaries, or on devices like CrossPads can provide useful information.
text: There is also interest in the speech community for fusion of speech with visual data.
text: Taking some photos of the whiteboard and the positioning of participants is easy enough to do.
text: Another option would be the recording by participants of short oral summaries of the meeting.
text: Summaries could be used to bootstrap for queries, the exact nature of which remained nebulous.
text: Candidate types are keyword searches, action items, elaboration on points of interest, and agreement between participants.
text: An initial prototype system to test any hypotheses can be pipelined.
text: The recorded data will be stored on CD-ROM's and sent to IBM for transcription.
text: There is also work being done on the annotation of prosody.
text: The corpus could be enriched with found data (public or collected by other projects), if those prove appropriate for use in the project.
text: Finally, project web pages and mailing list are being set up and UW are going to investigate the suitability of their recording equipment.
text: Within the piloting of data collection ideas, it was decided that CrossPads are going to be used for detection of "hot points" during the meeting.
text: Other ideas to be tested are the use of summaries or minutes -if a group normally produce them- and the recording of oral summaries by individual participants after the meeting.
text: Photographing the contents of the board and the positions of the meeting participants will provide extra information.
text: For query generation purposes, all participants will also be asked for their highlight of the meeting.
text: The general goal regarding the corpus is to investigate the acquisition of further appropriate data through public sources or available collections of other institutions.
text: As to recordings at ICSI, the group agreed that imposing rules of participation  in order to avoid speaker overlaps was not desirable.
text: Instead, they will aim for collecting stylistically varied data (different group dynamics and types of meeting).
text: Further action will also be taken to close other pending issues: the web pages will be organised, the recording room will be finalised and UW will also test their recording infrastructure.
text: The recording of meetings and any possible additional tasks must be set up in a user-friendly way, otherwise it would be difficult to recruit volunteers.
text: Asking participants to do more than they normally would in a meeting could put people off.
text: The video-recording of meetings, apart from adding an extra level of instrumentation complexity, can also make people apprehensive.
text: The usability and usefulness of CrossPads is not certain.
text: Acquiring data from other sources will not be straightforward, as they may either not be suitable for this project or not publicly available.
text: Querying is also a major issue: what users would ask from a system is not clear.
text: How this system would resolve high-level queries (eg regarding agreement between participants) is also hard to tell at this stage.
text: As transcription has not started yet, there was concern as to how IBM will deal with multi-channel data.
text: The abundance of speaker overlaps may also affect the quality of the trascription.
text: However, it was accepted that some problems with the transcription of jargon are, to an extent, unavoidable.
text: Five hours of recorded pilot data are already available.
text: IBM, who will be carrying out the transcribing, have been emailed the URL's for the online data set-up and for the transcribing tool.
text: Some work has already been done with the annotation of speech features like prosody.