study that um summed up a lot of these objections as well and so they're aware of them they wrote this position statement with that in mind no matter what your feelings are on this topic it's so important to understand the current limitations of what we understand so that we can make it better and move forward so we felt like that would be a good thing to talk about yeah and things can always change this is just currently where we are right now but new evidence makes us think about things differently very often i hope youtube doesn't have a limit on description length because i have a lot of links for you guys so we looked at all of those studies referenced in the absence document and many many of the studies referenced by those NUMBER_TOKEN studies and then we still kept looking because there was a glaring lack of studies that supported the opposite viewpoint that aversive training was preferable and a lot of people believed that and so we wanted to find more science that supports it i was really surprised we did find some compelling studies though we definitely did we're going to cover them because i thought our time would be better spent rather than just going over the studies that that we have a bias towards i guess or i'll speak for myself that i have a bias towards i thought it was really important to delve into some of the best scientific cases for using aversive methods i think we found two that were very commonly referenced out there by as evidence by many to i guess support the use of using aversive methods and tools yeah these would be the two most frequently cited that we were able to find we definitely don't want to be in our echo chamber if i'm wrong i want to know it i want to know where my flaws are that's really what i try to do so the first one is a study that's been going around since NUMBER_TOKEN and it compares the effectiveness of reward-based training and aversive training for off-leash recall around livestock and other dogs which is really hard yeah those those are distracting study found that the e-collar training didn't necessarily provide better or worse results than positive reinforcement training yeah it was basically a tie in training right effectiveness so then what about the welfare of the dogs right uh they did based on the body language and cortisol the stress hormone you guys know about cortisol yeah well cortisol is associated with stress both good stress and bad stress the best way we know so far to try to guess if a dog might be feeling stressed which is a hard thing to guess is to look at a combination of their body language do they look like they're looking stressed and their cortisol which they can test from their saliva or their blood yeah well stress hormone because stress isn't always bad yeah so for example if they're hunched over their ears or back their tails in between their legs yeah it's still a correlation because we can't know how dogs are feeling until we can read their minds someday one of the most frequent objections of the study was that the trainers were not using the e-collars properly according to modern e-collar trainers but that's true and actually it's weird because it's true that they didn't use them properly but it's also true that that is a misrepresentation of the study i mean here's
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