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Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

I fully agree that free speech must be protected under almost any circumstance that's why I love the example with the Nazi march. I'm from Germany so anything to do with the Nazi's in any way is basically a no go around here, which is pretty strange if you view it under the freedom of expression. After all there is a brilliant saying I don't know by whom and I may butcher it I may hate what you have to say but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it. Protecting even opinions that we don't agree with or even disgust us is the real test of our view on freedom of expression. As to the case at hand I think it has another familiar element often to be seen in modern legal cases and legislature. The internet and how we don't really know how to handle it and enforce or interpret certain laws in its realm. And I think we should be really careful about it, examining the possible consequences of every the we take here because the internet is one of our most important milestones and proved a complete gamechanger in global communication, society and politics. It is the free marketplace of ideas where anyone can voice their opinion and that should be protected.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

There is a lovely line from Star Trek Next Generation, Capt. Picard to be more specific concerning the law and justice There can be no justice, as long as the law is absolute. And I totally agree with this, the current systems are very much entrenched in their age-old laws and traditions, their legislation cluttered and confusing, making understanding it incredibly difficult. For a mind looking towards the future these systems seem medieval even in concept. I will not hide what I am here, I'm a philosophical anarchist let the hate flow in and as such I would be very pleased to see these systems dismantled, not by force or revolution mind you but by the ascension of a truly progressive and intelligent society, eliminating the need for all those laws. As Thomas Paine said Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one We are very lucky to have the internet largely untouched for now, no government hand showing itself and censoring what we do and write here. But you have to remember that the internet has some means of defending itself, groups like Anonymous, love them or hate them, have shown again and again that there is a group of people who will strike back against those threatening the internet and freedom of expression in general. They have had several successful campaigns against those who sought to limit or strangle the internet and its core ideals and have dealt out some pretty hefty blows.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

Te problem I see is that we carry an insane amount of baggage with us. As someone who sees the progress of humanity, to the point where, from our limited perspective, we wouldn't even call them human anymore, as the most important goal for our future this baggage just annoys me. Traditions, antiquated laws, religious superstition, superstitions in general and emotion based systems of morality plague our minds and societies and need quick and rational examination if we want to move forward. We could make good ground on so many issues if it weren't for these antiques of thought, a lot of them religious in nature but not exclusively to be fair. Things like homosexual marriage or stemcell research are only issues because of religious concerns that don't hold any validity under the lens of rationality. They might give us comfort and familiarity but I prefer progress to a the same snugly old lies and misconceptions. And with progress like that I think a society could quickly change and rise above the need for laws, slowly getting rid of them one by one as we start to look out for each other and care for each other, doing what is best for us all, instead of acting on selfish desires. But for now I think we are stuck with our governments and we can count ourselves lucky to at least live in modern democracies, giving us at least a chance to participate and make our voice it. It may not be perfect, but it's the best we got so far. It is as Churchill once said Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. to be fair I think he quoted someone else on that though One thing though we should be working towards, even with our form of government is reminding the politicians, no matter how rotten and corrupt they might be that they have to serve us and that we will not tolerate anything else. People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people., as Alan Moore once said and I think we have to drill that into the head of anyone running for office, that we, the people, demand to be the ones whose interests are served above all else.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

DeusExMachina said That said there is a line and that is to be drawn with credible threats. This could include threats that include personal information I know where you live ... or threats by people that know you not in all cases of this or if there is some sort of criminal history of violence with the one making the threats. In this particular case from what I've read in the document it is pretty clear that this man has issues not as an insult but in a medical sense and should be properly diagnosed and treated. I'm not sure throwing him into prison is the right solution but at least it is reasonably clear that his threats are credible, since he presumably has access to his victims and knows a lot of personal information about them. This guy needs help not a prison cell. He would also probably make a great object of psychological study. So to sum up, there is a line and it should be enforced but in a careful and vigilant way as freedom of expression is one of the most important and fundamental rights we have. Click to expand... I'm comfortable with this line.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

That might be, but who do you trust enough to enforce this line and maybe even legislate it? A government made up of people who can't even spell the word 'internet' without having to use a dictionary and on top of that are mostly corporate tools anyway? I don't and that's why I'm wary to draw a line and leave it to the state to enforce it, especially when it comes to freedom of speech and the free marketplace of ideas. There is no question that there is a line to be crossed and one that we should hold ourselves and others to but I don't want to see it shifted and twisted to mean basically anything that offends someone or has an even mildly violent tone to it, even if it may be in jest. I don't want my free speech to be censored just because there are a insignificant number of people abusing it.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

I'm afraid we might be facing a similar situation to my own country of Germany was between the two World Wars. In the Weimaer Republic, which in itself was not a bad system, it was a solid and well thought out democracy, the government faced the problem of people not really participating in the democratic process, coining the term 'democracy without democrats'. Not the Democrats as one of your two parties mind you. This system collapsed into a very well known tyranny, leading to the bloodiest war in human history, precisely because the people didn't understand democracy and didn't fully exercise their rights and fell for parties appealing to emotion mainly one party in the end. Take it from me you don't want to have this happen all over again in any country on this earth. In the USA very similar tendencies are to be seen. People don't vote or vote based on emotion not facts. Your country is surprisingly badly educated on many issues. You have elected officials calling evolution and marriage equality 'lies straight from the pit of hell' and yes that unfortunately is a quote. Your people are easily led astray by arguments from ignorance and appeals to emotion, not that this is unique to the USA but it seems to be a prevalent problem there. A better education system would go along way, not only for education about the rights and responsibilities in a democracy, but also in science, logic and reason. The system currently employed is junk, plain and simple. Your public schools rot, sex education in some states can't even mention condoms and still relies on the 'abstinence only' model, that is statistically proven to not work with catastrophic consequences, people still doubt established science with the stupidest of arguments and you have private schools teaching utter garbage. It needs a complete overhaul and more money. Getting rid of homeschooling and private schools that teach the christian creation myth as fact is a good start and then the public schools need to be renovated or rebuild, a nationally uniform curriculum, created by experts with the best for future generation in mind and qualified teachers, dedicated to giving the next generation the best education they can, would also go a long way.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

Where I see the most pressing issue with the educational system, not only in America mind you the German school I went to had the same problem, is the fact that almost all the time all that is done is drilling knowledge into the heads of children. While it is important for anyone to have a wealth of knowledge, it is worthless and wasted without the understanding and reason to use it. Despite the fact that I went to a school that focused on scientific education, prioritizing math, physics, chemistry and biology above the other subjects, we never learned the scientific method and its far reaching implications. I only learned what some of the greatest minds of human history have come up with, but never how. We have the great opportunity to stand upon the shoulders of the giants that came before us but it's of no use if we are afraid of heights or never learn to climb up. A sense of doubt and reason is much more important to me than being able to parrot something the teacher wants you to. Reason and doubt lead to understanding in the end, not repetition and that is what children should learn. Teach them how to think, not what to think. Aside from that the education could cover some topics a little more extensively, like the basics of democracy, where it came from and how it changed, what it gives us and what it demands from us. Or a trip through the history of philosophy, taking a look into the heads of some of the most influential people in history, many of whom have laid out principles we still utilize today and that make up the foundation of modern society and government. But this would require a different approach to education, it would require true teachers, who want for their student not only to pass some arbitrary test but to leave school as a better human, as someone who isn't afraid to use and speak their mind, someone who will doubt established wisdom and traditions, only following them after finding them to be useful. In the end I hope we as a species can finally rise above the need for silly laws and people who enforce them with violence and become something greater than we are now. Arriving at a higher form of understanding through reason, making government obsolete in a new society.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

The story of Sokrates, one of the most influential minds of the entire human history, is doubtingly a cautionary one, showing what petty lust for power and unfounded superstitions can do with a free mind. But even in the end Sokrates was not broken, he accepted his sentence and drank the cup of hemlock with dignity, showing his convictions to the bitter, in this case quite literally, end, showing the world what a free mind is truly capable of. The man is a figure to aspire to, a man standing for understanding and reason, for doubt and expansion of one's horizon, shunned and killed by the close minded leaders of his time. Throughout history we see this motive repeated over and over, great minds bringing humanity great knowledge and understanding about the universe and getting shunned, trialed, threatened and killed for it. One of the more famous examples being Galileo Gallilei. But especially in the European Dark Ages there were a lot more, burned and killed for daring to speak their mind. These are the examples we should live up to and teach our children to look up to, constantly questioning everything, leaving no stone unturned and no question unasked, relentlessly seeking for truth and understanding. But a lot of forces stifle these aspirations, seeking to strangle the spark that humanity carries before it can become a raging fire, sweeping them away. Religion being one of the foremost and most dominating one, constantly pushing back against science, trying to halt our progress on every level and teaching people to be content with the world as it is and ask for forgiveness from a non-existent tyrant in the sky. A free mind won't bend his knee to such ignorance and will cast the piercing ray of reason through the fog of their lies and superstitions and that is why they fear us. They know that once humanity has embrace reason and doubt they will become irrelevant to us, their flimsy excuse for a worldview picked apart by simple questions they can't answer.
Thread: Are Online Death Threats Protected Free Speech

I'm a huge defender of free speech I went to a college that tried to implement a no platform policy on campus that I single-handily beat but rapedeath threats go too far on that IMHO. Free speech ends once you impede on someone else's rights. Threats are an impingement on human rights. That sounds very contradictory. But let me give you an example. The way the BNP in England can say they want all foreigners out of the country is entitled under free speech it's extremely racist yes vs if they said they wanted to kill all the foreigners. Two different things right there. Free speech entitles you to say what you want to the limit that it does not infringe upon the rights of others. Saying you hate all Jews vs saying you want to kill all Jews is a massive difference. For instance, I can say I hate another person. I'm allowed do that under the free speech act. But once I say I want to kill said person my rights end! It's very simple really!
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

The Wizarding world after the fall of Tom Riddle was a prosperous one. People were rejoicing, the economy was growing, the population boomed as people felt the world safe to bring children into, and most of all, life went on. Students graduated, people were born, people died, the world kept on moving, regardless of how much some people had wanted it to stay stagnant and the same. Harry Potter was not a person that wanted the world to stay stagnant. No, he had been fighting tirelessly against those that wanted to drag the world back to the dark ages. He joined the Auror academy after the fall of Voldemort and had since taken every opportunity to fight the good fight. Not tonight though. Tonight he was going to meet up with his friends for a drink. Take some time off and simply forget that everything else exhisted for the evening. What could go wrong with that? It was with that mindset that Harry arrived at the Witch's Brew, a bar tucked away into a corner of Diagon Alley. It was dark, atmospheric, and best of all, nobody flipped their shit when he walked in. Most of the regulars knew him and those that did not were more interested in their drinks than the new guy that walked in. Harry grabbed a beer from the barman and carried it to a large round table in the middle of the bar. Everyone else would be arriving soon.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Harry had been quietly contemplating how much he would have liked to be taller than he was, but it had not happened that way. He was still on the shorter end of average. Harry's head shot up at being called out by an unfamiliar voice. His thoughts were cut short as he caught sight of someone that he had not seen for a while. She had grown up and certainly filled out as every witch did, but he recognized her. Tabitha Collins. Merlin, it has been years! His smile was crooked as he waved her over, Here, come sit with me. You're just in time for a bit of a reunion. Just as he spoke, another couple of people began to trickle in. The first was Neville Longbottom who stood tall and proud. The young clumsy boy gone. All that was left now was a confident man and friend of Harry's. Susan Bones was next, then Hermione Granger, a few Weasley's, and several other of their classmates descended upon the group. Harry greeted them all, but kept his focus primarily on Tabitha. How have you been?
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Harry shrugged and looked around at the group. I've been pretty good. Just kind of moving on with single life. Teddy, that's my godson, Remus Lupin's kid, loves the new flat though. Can't keep his mitts out of anything when he visits. Harry finished his first drink and set it down. Almost immediately, the mug disappeared and another one showed up. Either the table was enchanted somehow or they had some really dedicated house elf staff here. He smiled and picked it up, So tell me about you. What have you been up to since graduation? I've not seen you at all. Where have you been?
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Harry smiled as Teddy wandered off to join Andromeda. The two would only be poking their heads in for a moment as Teddy was still to young to get really get in, but people bent rules all the time. Andromeda was looking her age, but really, raising a second metamorphmagus must have been a handful. Harry just got to be the fun godfather. Australia, huh? Harry smirked and glanced at Hermione, I made a trip down there right after the war for about a week. Pretty nice place. I may have to go back for a vacation sometime. Harry set his mug down and reached out to brush his hand against hers for a moment, Are you back in town now? We should really try to catch up one of these days. Away from all of this... Harry glanced about, Fun.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Ah. Harry said and took a long swallow of his drink. Ginny. We... had a disagreement on what we wanted. Ginny was more than ready to stay home and begin a family, pop out a few kids and have a big Potter family. Harry eyed his drink and took another swig, I've got a slightly different schedule in mind. Dark wizards keep popping up. I've got to travel, clean things up, help raise Teddy, and loads of other things. He smiled, We decided to find our futures apart rather than together. Your turn now. I don't see any kind of ring on your finger. Not settled down?
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Hey, everyone grows out of being that shy little kid eventually. Harry pushed, Look at me. Or better yet, look at Neville, I led a school resistance, Longbottom. Doesn't matter what you were. What matters is what you are right now. Harry's eyes were alight with passion. Like Dumbledore before him, now that Harry had grown to a fully realized wizard, his eyes would occasionally spark with magic when he grew excited or passionate about something. Now, enough of this brooding look through history. Let's have toast. You and I. Harry held up his beer. To the future.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

To the future!! Tabitha said as she picked up het glass, clanked it against his. She couldn't tell him her real job with the ministry, she hated it but she had to keep her cover which wasn't easy. Taking another sip of her drnk she tried to keep hetself from getting lost in his eyes, that wasn't easy either. Ever since her first year which had also been Harry's first year she found herself very intrigued by him, as the years went by her feelings toward him developed but she could never verbalize them.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Harry smiled as she toasted with him. It was not often that he got out and drank like this. Hell, he did not even keep anything in his flat, but it was certainly worth it tonight. Harry ignored the others around them, not noticing as Hermione pointed out his apparent interest in Tabith. Nor did he notice the Weasley twins laughing a bit and passing a few coins back and forth. Harry gazed at Tabitha and caught her eyes on his. If anything, his grin deepened and became a full smile as he noticed the attention. Harry lightly stroked her hand where he had brushed his fingers across it earlier, before the toast. It's getting a little warm in here, don't you think? Harry asked, his green eyes alight with mischief. I was thinking about taking a short walk to get some air. Want to join me?
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

'' Yeah it is getting a little warm in here.'' Tabitha said as she smiled finished her drink, stood from the table. She smoothed out her skirt then pinned her cloak together, smiled at Harry. '' I would love to join you.'' The dark haired female placed a strand of hair behind her ear, ignored the others not on purpose but her mind was clearly focused on Harry. She'd had a crush on him for years, now she was finally able to pursue him without any complications. It's not that she didn't like other men it's just she'd had her share of failed relationships mostly because she wouldn't give them what they wanted, it's not that she didn't want to it's just she wanted her first time to be special.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Harry smiled at her agreeing to join him on his walk. He would have looked might foolish had she not agreed. Harry stood up from the table. He had no cloak, but was dressed for a cool evening out. Harry stepped closer to Tabith and placed a hand on her hip and guided her away from the table and group of friends, warriors, and survivors. The bar had filled up, but outside of the rowdy group at the table, everyone else was rather quiet and reserved. It was not until they had passed by that Neville looked to Hermione. The hell was that all about? Hermione shrugged and simply grinned into her mug as she took a break of arguing the theories of transfiguration vs charms. The night air had grown crisp out and the alley was lit by regularly placed magical lamps that cast a golden glow down onto the street. The Alley is certainly looking back to its old magical self. Harry commented as they stepped out into the night.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

'' Yeah it is.. This town was so dim after the last battle, well I've always wanted to do something. If I'm being to bold feel free to tell me so since I was always rather shy in school.'' Tabitha took a deep breath placed her hand on Harry's cheek, pressed her lips against his. She pulled back, stepped a few feet away then waited for his reaction. It was unlike her to be so bold, maybe it was the alcohol but she was attracted to Harry, had always been attracted to Harry she was just afraid of rejection. She was from a well respected family that lived outside of Sydney, of course a person never met her parents since they didn't live in England but she was sure she could take Harry there someday.
Thread: Which Witch? (Citizenanon, Mystic Angel)

Harry had not been shocked by her kiss. No, he had rather enjoyed the short sensation of her soft lips pressed against his own, but it had been so very, very short. Harry looked up and shot Tabith a teasing smile. His lips twitched just slightly. Well, I don't know, Tabitha. Harry stepped closer to her, invading her personal space. Harry reached up and lightly stroked her cheek, before cupping her jaw line in his palm. I'm going to have to try again and see. Harry drew her closer to him and pressed his lips to hers. It was just a little forceful, stronger than when she had kissed him, and promised much, much more if she wanted it. After several long moments, Harry pulled back, but did not step away. I think I like it.