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Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

This is all well and good, but you're all missing the fact that at least in the United States...guns are part of our culture, we became a nation through the right to bear arms and it will be completely and utterly impossible to enforce much more than background checks Which should be done anyway. I should also point out that people who want automatic weapons for illegal purposes will get them regardless, people who actually have the tax stamps and the paperwork to get automatic firearms very, very rarely commit crimes. arguably because of the money invested, I'd figure. There's also the fact that FFL dealers are sometimes the reason people can obtain guns illegally, which is as much of a problem as it is people not doing mandatory background checks. Situations involving negligent discharge are terrible, horrible things and limiting whatever gun isn't the issue. It's idiots owning them, which is also why nothing ever logical or reasonable will ever happen regarding gun control in the United States. Ammo prices SOARED because of Obama due to rumors of him just 'thinking' about doing something, and then the government was buying up ammo too. Ammo manufacturers kept the prices high and then gun prices quadrupled after Sandy Hook. Gun dealers could not keep their stores stocked fast enough. People get very, very afraid when a right that the United States has had since the beginning is even remotely threatened. Knee-jerk reactions to tragedies are just going to make situations worse. I should also note that the firearms used in Sandy Hook were about as legal as legal could be, no matter what the news tried to tell people. Media sensationalizes tragedy and terrifies the uninformed, for what? To make us all retarded about anything logical? He didn't have a .233 Assault Rifle, he had a semi-automatic .223 that looked like an M16. And far less 'scary' looking rifles use the same damn round. Sure, our country is fucked up in a lot of ways...but a lot of these people who start these shootings were out of their fucking minds in the first place. But you can't say that, because it starts an argumentative spiral that results in nothing ever being accomplished. I seriously do not care if someone is pro-gun, anti-gun, yay-gun. What I care about is people being smart and understanding hard logic. But gun control that works in other places won't work here, simply because the gun control in other places is ingrained into their very culture. We're a gun culture, we probably always will be...we have generations of it built into us, taught by us...we can say we'll do it, sure. But I doubt it'll ever work, and the US ever actually being reasonable about gun control is about as likely as my dick getting sucked by Kate Beckinsale. But that's just my opinion, my apparently very long winded one.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I'm onboard with Broomhandle45 on this. The main majority of massacres and gun-related violence is committed with illegal or illegally obtained weapons andor by unstable individuals. I will be speaking as a foreign observer on the US policy of gun-control, and I can say that some I like, some I dislike, but bearing in mind the conditions that are in place on the USA I can only say that I am in favour of maintaining a strong policy background check-ups and mental health investigations on people that want to buy a weapon or get a license for guns but that should not be the main focus in the struggle against gun related violence if we want it to be effective about it. The rest of the problem as far as gun-violence is concerned, in my humble opinion, lies within the purview of the ATF and the FBI to make sure that the black gun market is crushed. That's the main problem. Oh, we can all dream and play with the theoretical ideas of perhaps the mentality pertaining firearms in the US needs to change, but then it needs to be specified as such or otherwise we'll stray away from the very specific topic of gun control LAWS, and enter a game of constructing a pacifist utopia.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I own an assortment of firearms. . . M16 5.56.223semi-burst-auto with M203 Grenade Launcher Saving up for the M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System The rifle is frankensteined from all the best AR parts I could get my hands on as I wanted a rifle customized for my own needs. Saiga 12 semi-burst shotgun based off of the Kalashnikov weapon system. Sig Sauer P220 Combat .45 Smith and Wesson .38 Now, the reason why I own the aforementioned firearms is simply due to the fact that I enjoy it as a hobby, I will admit that time spent in the Army allowed me to further train my pursuits into a small cache of choice firearms. Given the tricky situation regarding firearms, strict regulation only really effects and ultimately hurts those who are law abiding citizens. It's harder for me to find ammunition at my local gun stores, I'd rather support a local business that donates its time, effort and money to returning troops and on the off chance that someone doesn't return, the widow will receive some financial backing for funeral arrangements. Now I have to go a state or two over to pick up ammo from some random guy who'll just pocket it. I want my money to go into the community and support now, with all these gunammo scares I can't exactly control where my money goes, I want to support good honest business not the sleazy motherfucker who might sell to gang bangers. Admittedly, my situation isn't the norm for most people. I've actually worked in a gun store and I refused to sell firearms and ammo to people who smelled of marijuana and asked all the wrong questions, How many people can this bullet kill? and there are many idiots like that who ask that question. I've kicked them out after reporting them. Ultimately it comes down to accountability, people need to police themselves for safety purposes, but not at the expense of freedoms that don't infringe upon lives and livelihoods of others. The people who shoot up schools, businesses or any place that has a large public gathering aren't in their right minds, they're psychologically unbalanced, no one in their right mind would do that and infringe upon the rights of the many who use this hobby as a means to relax and even put food on their table is a travesty. The should be regulated are people prone to violence, child molesters but they're not human, so they should be dragged out and set on fire, but thats for another debate and those who are prone to psychotic episodes. The fringe violent element will always be there, now we as a people have to decide how to go about mitigating the fallout, removing the liberties of honest law abiding citizens is not the way to go about this.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

QuietSeductress said The main issue is separating those who are mentally fit to own a gun and those who are not. I believe that's our the US main issue. Also too, limiting the types of guns that the public can own is crucial. Automatic weapons have no place in an average household. They are just too dangerous for many people to handle, not to mention if any unauthorized persons get a hold of them i.e. children. Click to expand... I have known how to use a gun ever since I was a child. I don't use one for anything other that to make certain I know how to use it and for personal and home protection. I believe that it is a privilege but one that must always continually be proven one that each American citizen had right to keep. Having said that, I have quoted QuietSeductress because I agree with her totally. No one other than the military should have access to certain weapons, or those militarily trained to use them. As well, the fact that no real effort has been made to keep the mentally disturbed or criminals from getting hold of guns is the real problem. That would, sorry to say, call for actually enforcing those laws that are so rarely enforced where convicted criminals and those who are both declared and obviously mentally disturbed are concerned. When those laws are finally enforced the way they should.. then people should start talking about gun control for those who have proven they deserve the rights and privileges concerning guns.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I can certainly see both sides of the issue really, but I think that the sad reality at this point is that there just isn't a way of actually being able to enforce any kind of proper level of gun control in the US anymore. Trying to enforce it at this point would largely be throwing money away. They had tried for years to get a full gun registry done in Canada, and all it did was cost a few billion dollars, and waste a lot of time. Something should be done, but I'm afraid I lack the solution to the problem. A gun control law stops the honest folk, but it's not the honest ones we're worried about. People bent on commiting illegal actions tend to commit them with illegal weapons. I'd say that they should pour the monrey into actually trying to police illegally obtained weapons, but that would mean spending money that the government doesn't have to spend anyway.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I think a big part of this discussion is mental illness and the stigma it holds in this country and how hard it is to get people the help they need. For example, I, being manically depressed and living in a rural area, have very little available options if I wanted to start getting into therapy. Not only is it hour long drives to get anywhere around here but the therapy costs upwards from 80 per session. I don't have insurance, I don't make a lot of money to just throw around on pills and talking to someone for an hour a week. I've been considering suicide for the past month as an actual solution to my problem. I'm not alone in this type of situation and there are more problems out there than debilitating self-hatred. But there are thousands of people at the end of their rope just as I am, floundering and not getting any help, let alone the help that they need. The way we deal with mental illness in this country seriously needs to change, because guns and bombs are just a way for more people to bathe in the gasoline of these types of people's personal demons.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

San-Silvacian With all due respect, a lot of video games don't affect children in the wrong way. There have been a select few I've heard of, yes. But as someone who grew up around consoles, video games, and things of the like I can say with confidence that a lot of media sources aren't what make the future generations which have turned out bad to be that way. Often, it really is being introduced into bad surroundings in environments, whether to them directly or someone they love, maybe a sibling or other parent. Also ... pain's inevitable in this world. Even if we did try to take some of the factors away, there's no guarantee they won't run into or learn of another one. I know did a few times in my life. Really though? Beds? Isn't that plus some of the other - all actually - items you listed going just a tad overboard? The easiest way to save your own, at least partly, is raise them as best as you can. Can it backfire? Well yes though anything can. Still, can doesn't mean it will either.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

Lady Yuna, I'm pretty sure that last line in San's post was hyperbole and it was even phrased that way. The point, since you seemed to totally miss it, is that if we're going to focus on things that hurt people and not the reasons behind cultural strife and violence, then we might as well ban everything that may be even the least bit threatening. And San illustrated this with exaggerated and tame examples.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

Hahvoc The Decepticon said Background checks need to be enforced as a standard. I found out they only enforce background checks on the federal level. I thought that was interesting. Also - there's no real reason to have an automatic weapon. A hand gun or shot gun or rifle, I can understand. But something like an AK47? Nope. Other than that, I think what they do in Sweden should be implemented. Background checks, if you go to a gun range you have to buy and use the bullets there. Also, every bullet for your gun at home has to be accounted for and it has to be locked in a secure location in your home. Click to expand... What Hahvy said, in a nutshell. There's so many factors in this issue that it can make gun regulation really hard to maintain. I think it does need to be done, regardless. But along side background checks there's the issue of mental health, with depression, aggression, ability to think rationally, logically, etc. Mental health issues can arise later on in life and at any time and a legal gun owner who was once perfectly happy and healthy could become a threat. Not to mention, the most common way of acquiring a gun for people in gun crimes is by borrowing it from a friend or family member 30. Might sound douche-y but if people really want to be able to keep their guns, then I think when it comes to gun crimes, if the murderer did acquire their gun from someone else who is the proper owner of the gun, that person should be considered accountable and charged as well. I'm not saying to the degree of the murderer, but they either 1 Did not safely or properly secure their gun or, 2 Gave their gun which should only be used by them to someone else to use. And if they are so aware of the risks that come with owning and using a gun, they should never just hand over a gun or make it easily accessible to anyone . And they should assume responsibility if they do. But seriously, there is an issue with guns getting in the wrong hands and being used way too easily . In the 2009 census image I linked there, firearms are by far the most commonly used weapons in homicide. That doesn't include suicides, accidents, justified defense?, and negligence. My cousin was a cop and he was shot and killed because of a couple who hadn't paid their water bill in months. Someone was sent out to turn off their water and the wife kept chasing them off their property every time they tried, so they called the police and my cousin showed up. When he showed up and got out of the car the husband came out and shot him. I know water is a necessity, but I don't think it is worth killing a man over, especially in these times. If they were having issues paying their bills they probably could have sorted something out. They lacked the mental capacity to do so, but apparently they were stable enough to own a gun. Again, this is not against hobbyists and all gun owners. But you can't deny guns do often get into the hands of people who should never have one.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

It all comes down to accountability, people have to police themselves and hold those who provide firearms to the public to a higher standard. As for myself, my firearms are stored and secured in a safe. Granted, I will admit that if someone is dedicated enough, has enough time and skill, they'll be able to get through these deterrents to get what resides inside. We can all agree that this is tricky business that steps on a lot of toes and can give rub people the wrong way without a moments hesitation. To say otherwise would be a blatant lie to ourselves and those who choose to participate in this particular debate. Living in CA, being a gun owner and having military experience. I get to be on the front lines of firearm regulation. It's not exactly an enjoyable experience watching people step and stomp on what I consider to be a calming hobby just because it goes against their sensibilities, pushing in feel good bullshit laws that make it harder for me and mine to enjoy ourselves. Now given the aforementioned, people can surmise where I sit. Ultimately it comes down to accountability, I don't want firearms in the hands of people who wish to use them to cause harm, but that fringe will always find a way to place their hands upon such. They're called criminals for a reason. I just don't like the fact that each passed law in California turns me into a criminal, when I followed the given laws and regulations to the letter, jumping through hoops, garnering signatures and obeying the laws set down by society to get the things I wanted at the time. Everything that I own, outside of the revolver will soon be considered illegal how is that fair? I have gone to war, obeyed the laws set down by this nation, paid my bills and taxes with little to no bitching, saved up to ensure that I'd get by on a rainy day. At worst I've gone double the speed limit on my motorcycle, gotten into bar brawls over a woman and jay-walked with an open container of alcohol. Yet, by owning the firearms that I legally purchased and registered, I will soon become a criminal.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I also think that we should perform background checks before people buy guns. If you have laws the restrict guns to much, you end up having the state of IL, were I live, were no one can defend themselves. Illinois also has the highest crime rate. Coincidence? I think not. Most people who shoot people have obtained a weapon illegally. Sure, you get a wacko here and there who has a gun legally and kills people with it, but that's rare. For those who think that all guns are evil, you are WRONG. It's not guns that kill people. People kill people. Also, I think it is stupid that the crime becomes completely different weather or not a gun was involve. Someone can kill in self defense with a sword or bow all they want, but as soon as a gun is involve, people think that's excessive force, which may be true, but I still think a gun should be treated the same as any other weapon. You don't see people doing a background check if they are going to buy a sword, do you? Actually, do they? I'm guessing, but I don't think so. But this is just MY opinion, so don't hate me for it.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

No, they don't do a background check for a sword. But then, I can't kill you from 40 yards with a sword, can I? It also takes a lot more effort to actually make a fatal blow with a sword than it does to just pull a trigger. Now, despite that statement, I'm not actually disagreeing with what you've said by and large. Overdoing the amount of control on guns can cause more problems than it fixes really. That being said, I cannot think of a single damned reason why a private citizen needs to own anything more than a hunting rifle, shotgun, or maybe a handgun for defensive purposes. I mean seriously, if you're saying to defend your home, you need a full auto weapon with 30 rounds in the mag? Are you holding off an invading gang? Or a military squad? There is no logical reason to need something like that. I respect that some of the people who own such weapon are ex-military, and have training in such weapons. And I still don't think they need something like that in their home any longer. And I've grown up with family members in the military, and I still don't think that retired or just no longer active members have any more right to such a weapon than any other private citizen.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I'm seeing a lot of 'owning guns for defensive purposes and hunting' and I think there's one point that's kind of missing here. There's two other sides to this whole thing, and that's recreational and competitive shooting. In the US at least. Recreational is what it is, people like owning guns and people like shooting them. People who have the ability to purchase fully automatic weapons have to first find a Class III dealer, then pay the 200 bucks for the tax stamp, and then they can only choose weapons that are pre-1986 unless you're an FFL dealer yourself or a cop. And that's not a cheap task either, because the NFA closed the registry in '86, the price for the weapons that are legal are pretty damn high. Like in the ten thousand range. So wondering how people can get ahold of automatic weapons is honestly the minority issue here, they have the money and that's about it. Legal owners of automatic weapons are BARELY ever causing the crimes in the first place. I promise you that people can just...you know, like firearms. My cousin does that, he'll buy guns for the fun of it. Nothing more, nothing less. He likes shooting them, he likes reloading them. It's not a matter of 'why' when you're getting into things like that, it's just a matter of 'why not? It's fun'. I really think this sort of mindset is what kills most discussions. Most HONEST discusions about gun control, because people look at the guys with the tricked out gear and just wonder 'why would they like that? They must be messed in the head.' To gun owners, those people are basically spitting on their hobby. Which for a lot of people, that's all it is. A hobby, but it's a hobby that has a very direct risk...so people take it too seriously and nothing really gets accomplished other than defensiveness and arguing. It's kinda a really shitty comparison, but would you like it if someone smacked your favored hobby out of your hands and told you 'No, this is dangerous! People get hurt! I saw it on the news! These are dangerous!' without actually trying to understand?
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

But, but...swords are cooler!
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

They're probably cheaper, at least!
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

Probably. Unless, ya know, it was handled by Charlemagne.
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I'm really just preparing for the ZombieCthulhuIlluminatiApocalypse. 3
Thread: Thoughts on Gun Control

I'm Australian, back in 1996 we had a gun massacre in which 35 people were killed, the gun man used a military style rifle that was legally bought, due to this incident the Government increased gun laws and many types were made illegal. The catchphrase of shooters groups down here is When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns I agree with that as criminals obviously do not care for the law and will acquire weapons anyway. Although I think there is no reason for anyone to own military weapons designed to kill masses of people quickly, I do think we all have a right to protect ourselves and guns are a very good equalizer in that respect. I also know America is a lot more violent than Australia although we are catching up and I think if I lived there I would own a firearm as well. On a related but perhaps slightly different topic I would think that the real question politicians etc should be asking is What makes someone snap and shoot so many people? because if there is something going on that makes people want to kill than banning guns won't stop them from doing that, they'll just find another means to carry out what they want to do. I also have my suspicions about your Govt. especially Obummer's regime and I do think it odd that under his watch gun massacres have increased.