Thread: Discipline vs. Abuse

If a child walks into a store, does not have the capacity to control their emotions, and begins to throw a fit. . . That is a good excuse to hit them? The child's tantrum is affecting the people in the store and the adult. Who is in control of the adult's emotion, and subsequent choice of action? The child? Or the adult? Click to expand... Whoever said the parent acted out of emotions? Sure, the parent is getting frustrated, but not all spankings are out of anger or frustration. I don't give a crap if someone else's kid is throwing a fit, so when a kid is throwing a fit in a store, it doesn't affect me. Because I know how some kids act. I might say something like Someone's not very happy right now, and that's about it. It's simply to force the current tantrum to stop because there are more pressing matters at hand, a parent doesn't want to drive him with a kid being like that for the safety of everyone, and tantrums can be hard to break up. Kids will sometimes throw fits so long that they forget what they're even fussing about, but they continue because they know they had a negative emotion that they were running on. Again, because typically the child does not completely understand. I didn't say hit them, hit is a harsher term to use. Most spankings are open handed, and below the waist as many state laws limit us. Not that many parents today would cross that line anyways. I define hit as an action out of a negative emotion with the goal to hurt their kid, with no limitations. They don't care if its above the waste, open or closed fisted, with an inanimate object or not, etc. Is a parent abusing their kid if they take their kid in to get shots? Many people consider shots to be unnecessary. The parent knows its going to hurt, it may even make their kid sick for a day, but in the end, it's what they feel is best for their child. Who is responsible for teaching this child? The adult is. What does a show of aggression teach the child in the short and long term? To fear the adult's reactions, and that the sort of aggression modeled to them was acceptable? Click to expand... We are all human. We all have varying emotions. It's not like parents are constantly negative towards their child. Many parents will often apologize for spanking their kid after they have calmed down. And it's not like they ALWAYS resort to spanking. Again, many parents resort to spanking as a last resort to stop a fit or tantrum. Does the developmental process of a child have no relevance to this conversation? Should we really focus more the effects that spanking has on the short-term response of obedience? Click to expand... Spanking is meant to be a short term solution. Again. Many parents do take other approaches to teaching. For the millionth time... it is a last resort punishment. It is a punishment, not a method of teaching. Even then, I know PLENTY of people who were spanked plenty, and they are perfectly fine functioning individuals. The only downfall I see is that the more it is used, the more distant the child is to the parent. But from what I see, this is typically not the norm. Or should it be a discussion around what being hit teaches a child? It seems to me that we can all agree it is not okay to hit those that are mentally disabled, or those that have physical disabilities simply because they do not have the self-control to function in the same manner of the rest of us. Why is it we think hitting young children is acceptable? Click to expand... Spanking the mentally disabled is not okay because they are assumed to not have the mental capacity to learn and comprehend things like a child eventually will. Parents spank while the kid is learning but still have yet to understand. But they trust their child will eventually get there. The way their minds work are also very different. If you are saying that the emotional instability of a child, and their lack of self control are perfectly good reasons to hit them, and yet at the same time completely agree that children are still learning and therefore deserve more of a parent's time and patience. . . do you not see the fallacy here? Click to expand... Again... last resort. And have you had to deal with a kid throwing a full on tantrum? Allow me to share a story with you. I was at the renaissance festival with my 9 year old nephew not the autistic one. When we got there, I told him he had an allotted 25 to spend on anything he wanted there. No more. As we walked around the vendors, I reminded and explained to him that he should look around at all of the vendors first. And then when we were done, he should then decide what he wanted to get. I took him to play some games, I got him lunch, some dessert, saw a few shows, and walked around the vendors. At some point, he decided he wanted a toy sword and a wax hand. Again, I kept on insisting he wait until we made it all the way around. I know my nephew, I live with him. I know how he acts, how he reacts, and I didn't really care either way. It was his job to make the decision. He decided he wanted a toy sword, and a wax hand. So... I took him to get them. On the way out to leave, he saw a kiosk with a bow and arrow set. He asked me if I could get it for him. I told him no. I explained to him that I didn't have the money and he didn't have enough of the 25 left. I explained that he should have waited like I told him to, and told him this was the consequence of his choices. He started begging me to get it for him. Again, I explained. He asked me to call my mom and ask her to bring money. I knew what my mom would say. I let him call her, she said no and told him the same thing. It was time to go anyways. So I told him to come along. He started whining, I told him the same stuff over again and again reminded him that it was time to go. He started crying. I grabbed him by the hand and started to lead him out of the festival. He started screaming flailing and hitting me because he wanted the bow and arrow. As soon as we got outside of the gate, where people were coming in and out, he played dead weight and started kicking and screaming at me. Because of his choice words, DON'T TOUCH ME! I DON'T WANT TO GO! People thought I was trying to kidnap the kid. People were coming up and asking him if he was okay, did he know me, where was his mom, etc. And he just remained quiet. Eventually someone called for a cop to show up. Any time I tried to speak for him, I was told to shut up. The cop started questioning me. I explained he was my nephew and he was just having a fit because he wanted something and he didn't want to go. Later my mom showed up and talked to them. She got him into the car and left. Had the walk not been that long, and had I gotten to the car. Yes, I would have swat him on the thigh. What would have happened? He would have started focusing on the surprise and the mild sting of getting spanked. Yes, he'd cry over that for a little bit, but he'd have probably forgotten the bow and arrow and calmed down once the sting of the spank subsided. He needed a distraction, something to suddenly yank him out of his irrationality and his tantrum. You can't offer them something in replace. That is spoiling, and it doesn't always work. You can try talking to them and explaining things, I and my mom had obviously done that already, but he did not understand and he did not agree with what was being said, so he persisted and had a tantrum. He was fighting me as I was trying to lead him to the car. It is not safe driving around when a kid is acting like this. He has hit, kicked, and thrown things at people while having his tantrums in the car. That can cause a wreck. Who is the one in control of their emotions? The parent. Who is the example for their child? The parent. Using this logic, it is only ethical that the parent be able to control their own impulses and not hit their child. Click to expand... It's not an impulse! Most people react irrationally when its an impulse. If a parent acted on impulse, they would likely just slug the kid or slam them against a wall or pull their hair, which is abuse. Like I said in my post above yes, a child's mental process is still being developed. The parent shapes that in their child. Yes, children cannot control themselves, and that is okay. It's okay for children not to be in control of themselves. It is the responsibility of the adult to show them how to participate positively in their world. Click to expand... And many parents do. And kids won't always understand right away. Let's now use a puppy as an example. Puppies have a habit of biting. That's fine and understandable. When you want them to stop biting, you don't just tell them no. You tell them no AND you hold their mouth shut for a second. It doesn't hurt, it causes mild annoyance. You will have to do this for awhile, but eventually, the time will come when you say No! and they will just stop, because they expect you grab their jaw. But you won't, and then they will learn what the word means. No means stop what you're doing. Kids work in a similar way. You shouldn't and won't always have to resort to spanking a kid, but sometimes you will have to to immediately stop what they're doing because they won't stop. I can think of many names of those who have shaped our world, and did not need to exert force to do so. The Dali Lama is just one example. It's as simple as asking the question What sort of example do you want to be to your kids? Click to expand... Realistically speaking, many successful people in the world were not passive-aggressive as well. Sometimes being soft just doesn't get stuff done. It's great when it does, but realistically it doesn't always work out that way. It doesn't matter that the customers in the store are disrupted, or how loudly the child is screaming what really matters is in that moment what decision the adult choses to make, and what it will teach their child. Click to expand... Trust me. Anyone who's lived with a kid or raised one won't care or judge the parents or the child. And if you still believe physical punishment is somehow justified, please, for the sake of curiosity, learning, or if you simply have a few minutes to spare, read a little about where my stance comes from. Here's a short ten reasons why one should not hit children. Click to expand... quote Not trying to be rude. I am very firm on my beliefs. I know sometimes spanking is not the answer to punishing some kids. I have a nephew who doesn't react to spanking because he is autistic and he often obsesses over issues because he is just socially and mentally wired different than most kids. But for some kids, it works, and we're not destroying them mentally by giving them a smack on the butt. They probably get hurt more by fellow friends and siblings than they would the parent. Not saying there aren't parents who go overboard with spanking. I do believe my dad went overboard with spanking me. He cut me once with his belt, and I often could hardly move because it hurt so much. But a open handed swat below the waist as a last resort punishment is not abuse or damaging to the child as a person. I know some VERY loving parents who have sometimes had to resort to spanking some of their kids. I was spanked in both ways and there is a significant difference. My mom spanked me open handed below the waist and my relationship with her is fine. I am not damaged because my mom would sometimes spank me and send me to my room when I was being a brat.