Thread: It is the Time of the Eye: Homemade Blueberry Pancakes

Re Ivy's Garden of Wondering Thoughts Thank you for replying and I totally agree. Some people are just content to let the negativity be their mantra because it DOES seem easier. You give in to the fact that life is horrible and there's nothing you can do to change it, you kind of revoke your responsibility to it, in a way. And there's really nothing you can do to force them to feel the way you do. But I also believe in the ability of positivity to be contagious. Sometimes, it's annoying to some people though. ? Lately, I've been watching a Youtuber named Onision. I joined his forum to have discussions and such and for those of you who don't know him or haven't heard about him, he's pretty crazy and a bit controversial. It's entertainment though and he makes a lot of great points. One thing that bugs me incredibly is his vegetarian rants. He is extremely vegetarian, like, his beliefs are not only that it's healthier, and not just that the meat industry is propagating cruelty to animals, and not just that meat doesn't taste good to him, but his main point is that killing animals is wrong . It's not just his beliefs though. He says things like that animals are his friends and if you like to eat them, then you're a murderer. He constantly pushes around that Paul McCartney video, If Slaughterhouses had walls, everybody would be vegetarian and says if you've watched it and you still eat meat, then there's no excuse for you making that choice, as if it's akin to pedophilia, murder, torture and punching babies all mixed into one. An added quirk on his forum is a selection for people's profiles that you can say what your diet choice is. It has an option for Vegan and Vegetarian and No Answer. If you type the word meat anywhere in your post, it comes out as shit automatically. Since it's a big topic with a lot of people, it comes up often and even after they changed that filter because people were complaining, the vegetarians on his forumincluding himself continue to refer to meat eaters as shit eaters. It's the arrogance of it that bugs me. That the vegetarians on that site consider themselves above others for the moral choice they've made. Some of us aren't ready to make the leap. Some of us are very attached to meat and enjoy it. Some of us don't make the connection between the cow chewing cud, and the steak on the plate. And some of us who DO make the connection, simply don't care. Honestly, if you like animals and think they're great and everything, that's fine. But eating them is a choice of diet on how certain people choose to survive. Killing animals may be wrong on some level, but it will never equal the same as the murder of another human being. It just won't. And I do not like feeling bullied into making the choice. If you come to me and tell me all these horrible things about the meat industry and how bad the conditions are, and I say I'd rather try and change the way the system works than to just stop eating meat, it does not make me feel like agreeing with you when you call me names and shove emotionally charged videos in my face. If they're so happy and so content with the choices they've made, why do they have to convince the world to be exactly like them? If you're a vegetarian, I'm not going to shove a burger in your face, or if we eat out together go to a predominantly meat serving restaurant. I'm not going to disrespect you by bringing attention to something that offends you. And I'd expect the same courtesy, you know? Now it's not that big of a deal. It's just a forum and just some random guy. But I find the conversation stimulating, even if it becomes a bit heated on both sides and seems like talking to a bunch of parrots imitating a brick wall. But in discussing it with someone else, I reasoned out my arguments So, they say we can't eat meat because animals are sentient, and they have feelings and intelligence akin to humans. But if you use the argument, Well animals eat each other then they say But we know better and can make that choice. And I'm like, Well, they're either at our level or they're not. Just a little rant to get my thoughts down. Wanted to record this conversation I had on his latest video, comparing killing animals and eating them to murder and cannibalism. I basically started by stating the above paragraph. Person1 killing animal and people are completly different... 1 hour ago IvyWalkerPerson1 I agree. If we have a high enough intelligence to make the choice when they can't, then our lives will mean more to us than it does to them who kill without knowing any better. Person2 Eating an animal doesn't make you a killer, I hunt all the time, I'm just trying to survive just like a lion. Ever tried a Babie Burger they're great! I tell ya these bleeding hearts.....go back to your banana videos those are cool. Person3Person2 Does it? Have you ever thought of the impact put on most animals? Watch my video about Factory farming and you'll see what I mean. and BTW how do you feel knowing you've taken an innocent life when u have the ablilty not to eat meat? Your just a low-life like every other hunter, hiding behind religon and the thing where everyone beleives we are better then animals when we arent. If you can kill an animal you can kill another human? Or could you because that human is so called the same as you? You low-lives kill animals for trophies and because they are different grow up a little and realise the thruth! IvyWalkerPerson3 We're not on the same level as animals. We ARE above them. Otherwise, they wouldn't need us to protect them. Someone tries to kill me, I open my mouth and tell them to stop and I fight back. It's not a question of whether or not we need to grow up. It's diet. It's a personal choice. You are not better than me or anyone else just because you cry when a cow gets hurt and it makes you feel better about yourself not to take advantage of your existence in the natural order. Person3IvyWalker If we were above them we wouldnt need to kill them! And by the way, they wouldnt need us to protect them if we didnt start using them and killing them in the first place! IvyWalkerPerson3 That doesn't make sense. The first part. How does being above them negate the need to kill them? If anything, it makes more sense to kill them because they're of lower intelligence and cognitive ability. It makes more sense for us to use them for our purposes, with us being of a higher order. Person3IvyWalker Are they really of lower intellect? How would you ever know? We cant speak the same languge as them but that does not make them lower then us! If they were stupid as you say, they would not know how to survive but they do. They managed themselves long before humans came along IvyWalkerPerson3 So you're basing your opinion on whether or not something is capable of surviving? That's where you're setting the bar? I don't know about you, but I do and think about more than just the things necessary for survival Person3IvyWalker I think about alot of things other then survival. This is about animal rights. Not about survival. I really wished you would go out and learn something. IvyWalkerPerson3 Animal rights is a joke. Most rights are based on the ability of people to agree on a social contract, the ability to make and keep agreements. Animals cannot reach such agreements with other creatures. They cannot respect anyone else's rights, thus they cannot be said to possess any. Person4 IvyWalker But think of it this way if you met someone who was mentally challenged, would you kill them because they had a lower intelligence? Would you use them for your purposes because you see yourself as better compared to them? I think this is what Onision was talking about when he said to reflect on your posts before putting them. Unless that is how you think it should be than by all means continue to kill the mentally challenged. IvyWalkerPerson4 You're making an extreme comparison that doesn't fit and isn't at all what I said. Are you comparing a mentally challenged person to a dog? Would you make them eat on the floor if they were living with you? Make them sleep in a kennel outside? See? It's foolish to make that kind of argument. And further more, there's a difference in species like someone stated before, lions don't hunt other lions for food. Maybe YOU should think instead of letting your emotions dictate your posts. Person5IvyWalker That's very ignorant of you. Just because something is dumber than you, doesnt mean you need to kill them. First of all they're just as smart as you, if not smarter just because we fail to understand what they really think doesnt make them inferior to us. You're not gonna go off and kill somebody that is mentally retarted, right? Second, we're capable of living on only vegetation and beans and fruits. Eating meat is optional, we have a wider variety of animal friendly food. IvyWalkerPerson5 I value human life above that of an animal's. I hold this opinion because we are different species and I have the ability to reason and think and feel at a higher level then they do. I do not kill beyond my needs and do not believe excess is right. But I'm not going to be convinced that eating animals is akin to cannibalism and murder, just because some humanistic bozos want to put themselves in the stall with the pigs and cows. Person5IvyWalker You dont kill beyond your needs? You don't believe in excess? Really? Its not if you eat meat or not. It's the fact that you dont believe there's something better. You are no better than any other animal in this world. You're only able to 'reason more' because you need to, otherwise you're frowned upon in our society. Eating animals isnt a necessity. I wouldnt call it cannibalism but is most definately consuming more than you need to. IvyWalkerPerson5 Let's cut the bull, here, alright? We're not talking about need or necessity. We're talking about what he said in the video. The point he made was Killing and eating animalsmurder and cannibalism of your fellow human beings. It's not about need. I KNOW I don't need to. But it's about whether or not 1.we have the moral high ground to do so and 2. whether the death of humans is below that of animals. Please try and stay on topic. Thnx. Person5IvyWalker hahah, i like you just dodged my argument. I wasn't arguing with you about the video, i was arguing about what you said in the comment to that other person about how the life of an animal is lesser than yours, which you claimed is inferior to ours. Why dont YOU try staying on topic. You realized you weren't getting anywhere with your arguments, so you took the pussy way out and changed the whole topic.... I WIN! IvyWalkerPerson5 No, you wanted to talk about what we need and don't need. I already told you I KNOW I don't need to. I do not consider eating what is provided anyways as eating excess. I consider taking more than is necessary to fill my belly eating excess and that's what I meant. And great. You win. You get a sticker. I'm going go back to having an adult conversation now. But you enjoy that sticker. Person6 -shivers- Obviously, when they kill animals they DO NOT do it painlessly. These creatures are scared yet you see people in hospitals breathing through tubes because they aren't only not slaughtered and eaten but literally FORCED to live! But we sit hear and eat animals, animals that can't do anything about it and are normally put out before slaughtering yet we always have the chance to eat humans as they sleep, are sick or even dead so isn't that the same thing? IvyWalkerPerson6 No, because they're different species. What species, in the world, survives by eating it's own kind? That doesn't make sense and one does not equal the other. Person6IvyWalker I'm aware, but they ARE all living things. IvyWalkerPerson6 So are plants. What's your point? There are different degrees to life and that's something you guys don't seem to comprehend. We're not all the same fish that walked up on land anymore. Person6IvyWalker Whatever. That's your opinion. Consider though, that if it's so ok to eat animal flesh and if plants are the equivalent, Though they don't have brains, nor can they feel pain or suffering like animals and people, But probably can't either but Hell will freeze over before I eat bugs. But still, if eating meat and plants is so ok, why not eat people too? -shrugs- No need to start a fight. People don't listen to me so I want to rant somewhere. . . IvyWalkerPerson6 because, it's our same species. you're still not comprehending what I'm saying about us not all being the same group. Plants, Animals and Humans are all LIVING things. But Plants, Animals, and Humans are different species, different life forms. Eating within your own species doesn't make sense. Do you understand now?