[00:04] cool [00:07] lifeless: I'm slightly concerned that the LOC policy is encouraging people to put massive (multi-thousand lines of diff) unrelated changes into a single branch. [00:07] reviewers should still be pushing back on that [00:07] eg. spot the real change in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/revision/15074 [00:07] I presume you have examples? [00:08] Oh, bloody hell. That was my suggestion. [00:09] wgrant: archive model changes, but I know the branch :-P [00:12] so, this is an example of doctests sucking [00:12] I would have made a new login_person that was better and left the old one for doctest specific usage, myself. [00:12] landing it separately would have been nice indeed. [00:13] wgrant: such permutations during review have happened even before the LoC thing [00:14] wgrant: That specific one doesn't flag the LoC policy per se, for me. [00:14] Possibly not. [00:15] its a related change [00:16] if it was purely unrelated I would definitely feel tweaked [00:18] anyone know why we special case no-bug-supervisor situations ? [00:19] In which context? [00:19] Bug notifications? [00:20] yah [00:20] anyone fancy a quick review of https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/remove-services-unicode-csv/+merge/101315 so I can test my landing access? it's just removing two now-unused files [00:20] lifeless: Because to do otherwise would not confuse people sufficiently. [00:20] oh no whatever will we do [00:20] cjwatson: don't forget to set a commit message and go via ec2 land [00:21] Oh yes, commit message. I was going to use ec2 land, yes. [00:21] Thanks, will attempt that now [00:22] rick_h: Hi, did you get a UI reviewer or Dan to look over the new email notifications? [00:22] The one you added doesn't respect our normal conventions and has incorrect capitalisation in a number of places. [00:24] wgrant: yes, dan has sent me some feedback I've got to incorperate [00:24] I'm working with him on it while I try to get tests passing [00:24] wgrant: it's not final yet. [00:24] confused [00:24] it landed overnight [00:25] maybe flagged? [00:25] it shouldn't have landed, tests have been failing nad I just pushed another ec2 run during the day today [00:25] I've not seen the tests run yet [00:25] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/revision/15075 [00:25] [r=gmb][bug=959482] Add event hooks to send a notification email to a user whenever significant changes to their account are taking place. [00:30] https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/854405 [00:30] <_mup_> Bug #854405: Private bug subscriptions < https://launchpad.net/bugs/854405 > [00:30] wallyworld: ^ could you perhaps give that a more descriptive subject? [00:31] rick_h: So, if it wasn't meant to land we should probably unland it. [00:31] lifeless: sure. i'm not sure why that one is not marked as released [00:31] wgrant: email hung and didn't get the notice. [00:31] heh [00:32] wgrant: so I screwed up, should have ec2 test vs land. If youcould let me know what's wrong that would be helpful. Dan's notes so far have been more generic [00:32] wgrant: so I'm not aware of what's not to standard atm. [00:32] wgrant: I'm getting kicked out of the library here in a couple of min sorry. Going to be afk. [00:34] wallyworld: thanks! [00:34] "irc" -> "IRC", "Freenode" -> "freenode", needs general rewording to say "if you didn't make the change" rather than "if you didn't meant to make the change", URLs should be in <> or nothing at all rather than []. I'd check existing templates to see the general style. [00:35] It also seems slightly odd to not say what the new or removed email address is. [00:35] And I'd prefer an assertion that there's only one changed field, rather than just dropping everything except the first one, given the security implications. [00:36] totally [00:37] or list all the changed fields [00:38] Sure, but in the current implementation that's stated to be an impossible situation :) [00:38] So it just takes the first one from the list, ignoring any others that probably aren't there. [01:09] * StevenK stabs layers. [01:09] Awww, a Maverick EOL notice. [01:14] Oh, right, 10.10.10 [01:14] Wasn't expecting it for a couple more weeks === jtv1 is now known as jtv [01:31] So how do I go about debugging things when the EC2 instance that 'ec2 land' starts up won't accept SSH connections? [01:32] strace shows it sitting in connect() [01:32] cjwatson: It'll normally retry a couple of times. Takes a while to start [01:33] Last time it timed out; this time it looks well on its way to timing out [01:33] cjwatson: Gasp, you're going to land your own branches [01:33] ? [01:34] If EC2 will ever work for me, yes [01:34] Heh [01:34] Can you use ssh to connect to the instance it has started? [01:35] No; also hangs in connect() [01:36] check the ingress rules [01:36] ec2 land may have misdetected your source ip address [01:36] Yeah, log into AWS and check your security groups. [01:38] ah yes, you're quite right [01:39] bogus RFC1918 source addresses [01:40] I see a patch to ec2 land coming up [01:42] not sure it's ec2's fault - why on earth is checkip.amazonaws.com telling me my RFC1918 address? (how does it even know?) [01:42] You're not setting an outbound X-Forwarded-For or something like that? [01:42] ah, could be a proxy, yeah [01:43] works better with http_proxy unset [01:43] Heh [01:44] mmm haha [01:44] cjwatson: I wonder if there is a bug tracker for checkip.amazonaws.com [01:53] is bug 63000 still true? [01:53] <_mup_> Bug #63000: IBugTask permissions are not in security.py and are obtuse

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/63000 > [01:53] running now, phew [01:53] lifeless: Yes [01:53] wallyworld: I guess https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/launchpadlib-services-974139/+merge/101349 is tied to the mail you sent to -dev? [01:54] cjwatson: \o/ [01:54] StevenK: yes. [01:55] wallyworld: Do you want to set it to WIP if you want to wait for the discussion? [01:55] right, will do [02:05] * StevenK stabs buildbot. Six or seven times. [02:12] StevenK: rick_h's branch conflicted with jml's. [02:12] Ah. [02:12] Handy. [02:52] does anyone know a reason why we have UNKNOWN *and* UNDECIDED bug statuses? [02:54] I think UNKNOWN is for imported bugs? [02:54] s/status/impostance/ [02:55] StevenK: well, thats what we use it for [02:55] StevenK: but why do we have it [02:56] wgrant: sorry, like I was saying, kicked out of library post LUG meeting. Thanks for the notes. Taken down to go over in the morning. [02:56] we have a rule that says projects which use lp should always use undecided, and ones that don't should always use unknown (because their only bugs hsould be watches) [02:56] lifeless: it does take from a list of fields, but the event is fired on one of them not all so it 'assumes' the first one. I'll add a check to it to make sure and fail otherwise [03:04] rick_h: Wouldn't it have been easier to code the notification directly in [03:07] lifeless: well, I was shown the license change notification stuff in subscribers at the start and took that path. [03:07] I have two rules of thumbs [03:07] if an event has only one user it doesn't need to be an event [03:07] if you have to add special case code because you've lost context it probably shouldn't be an event [03:07] rick_h: I can eyeball your branch if you like, rather than talking in generalities [03:07] lifeless: well this does have three users, but you're right in the sense that it probably doesn't have to be an event. [03:08] lifeless: definitely up for suggestions. It's my first real bit of code on teh zope side so learning more > * [03:08] url me up [03:09] lifeless: but I'm finally back from LUG dinner/meeting and it's past my bed time. Can you email me notes for the morning? [03:09] https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/email_notice_959482 [03:09] lifeless: ^^ [03:16] rick_h: thanks [03:16] * wallyworld has an appointment, back in a bit [03:58] wgrant: StevenK: is bug 250003 still relecant ? [03:58] <_mup_> Bug #250003: package-cache should be optionally limited by distribution

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/250003 > [04:01] lifeless: If that populates DSPC and other madness -- it could be, yes. wgrant and I want to completly rip all that crap out and have DSP in the DB directly, but ETIME [04:03] there's that "should" thing in a bug again [04:03] Indeed. [04:04] And it mentions hateful things that shouldn't have existed. [04:05] bigjools: yes, there it is. I hates. [04:05] the bug does not clearly state the problem [04:06] indeed [04:06] this is not uncommon :) [04:06] I'm trying to find a bug [04:07] there is a bug about showing folk that are important to a project as such [04:07] in bug pages and so on [04:07] there is another bug that also says this [04:07] I want to dup them [04:07] I can't find the former bug >< [04:07] We have lots and lots of bugs. News at 11. [04:12] wgrant: is bug 372643 fixed by your once-over ? [04:12] <_mup_> Bug #372643: Import queue error display: IE7 makes it all one line

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/372643 > [04:12] also bug 376186 is about the most opaque I've seen today [04:12] <_mup_> Bug #376186: private bug implicit subscription

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/376186 > [04:12] [the subject I mean] [04:16] lifeless: That one is pretty transparent. [04:16] It wants private bug implicit subscriptions [04:16] (we'll be fixing it with disclosure) [04:16] lifeless: 372634 needs to be checked in a more recent IE [04:17] If it works in IE8 it's fine [04:17] Since IE7 has no reason to exist [04:18] rick_h: Anyway, we probably need to unland the mistaken landing. Any objections? [04:20] wgrant: the /subject/ isn't transparent :) [04:20] I knew immediately from the summary what the problem was [04:21] Prepending 'No ' would possibly have made it a bit clearer, however. [04:28] I don't understand the bug, and I've read it [04:28] it says [04:28] new apport bugs have u-c-u subscribed, but members of u-c-u don't get notifications. [04:29] That sounds like 'the system is working but it isn't' [04:29] perhaps it means 'we have muted u-c-u via an external contact address and we want folk to have to have a different subscription to get notifications, and they want structural subscriptions to work' [04:30] lifeless: u-c-u deliberately doesn't imply notifications, because that would be insane. [04:30] so, bug 376186 [04:30] <_mup_> Bug #376186: structural subscriptions to private bugs don't work even when the subscriber has visibility on the bug

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/376186 > [04:30] lifeless: But people who have explicitly opted into the package's bugs (through a structural subscription) don't get notified, even if they have access [04:30] thats clear. [04:31] Right, but bug is that private bugs don't have implicit subscriptions. [04:31] no [04:31] implicit subscriptions aren't a thing anywhere, they don't exist [04:31] the bug is that structural subscriptions aren't working with private bugs - they shouldn't grant visibilty, but they should still grant notification. [04:32] thats even the symptoms described, once you know that u-c-u doesn't imply notification [04:33] lifeless: Structural subscriptions are one type of implicit subscription [04:33] Others include subscriptions through duplicates, or for notification by assignment. [04:33] granted [04:33] bug 376186 [04:33] <_mup_> Bug #376186: implicit (e.g.structural) subscriptions to private bugs don't work even when the subscriber has visibility on the bug

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/376186 > [04:34] which isn't entirely true [04:34] because we handle assignment already I think [04:34] but I accept your precision; do you accept my critique of the prior subject? [04:34] Assignment is handled by some very inconsistent and non-performant and broken special cases, yes. === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [05:22] poolie: bug 660340 [05:22] <_mup_> Bug #660340: [wishlist] Bug report message editor: want some markup to make the text bold/italic < https://launchpad.net/bugs/660340 > [05:22] hi [05:23] yup, that'd be arguably a dupe [05:24] wgrant: Hai. https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/information_type-vocab/+merge/101486 if you please? [05:27] StevenK: Looking [05:47] StevenK: Done [05:49] wgrant: SimpleTerm doesn't seem to take a description, I went pawing through zope.schema [05:49] StevenK: Perhaps description is of our own invention :( [06:00] cjwatson: since you're spending some time on publishing things - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/616704 [06:00] <_mup_> Bug #616704: security unembargoes leads to security.u.c overload because primary archive does not have a copy of the debs < https://launchpad.net/bugs/616704 > [06:00] wgrant: MatchesStructure() is pretty awesome, first time I've used it. [06:00] StevenK: That's the point :) [06:01] we did a test helper in Maas where you can do assertAttributes(model, attr=, attr2= ...) which uses MatchesStructure [06:07] lifeless: Can I nuke the 'specification' bug search order on the grounds that it's stupid and not used by the UI? [06:08] (I believe it was added for a (likely false) constraint designed into dynamic bug listings, but never used) [06:10] wgrant: Sort by blueprint? Oh, that sounds SO useful. [06:10] s/Sort/Search/ [06:10] It sorts by the alphabetically first linked blueprint name [06:11] Oh, I can think of ... no use case for that whatsoever. :-) [06:11] (only slightly less useful than the 'tag' sort order, which sorts by alphabetically first tag) [06:11] But tag is a bit harder to remove, since it's used by the UI. [06:11] wgrant: I vote killing it, since it's just sounds dumb. [06:11] s/'s// [06:12] wgrant: And in fact, once we drop both feature flags, the entire vocab can just die. [06:12] StevenK: Ah, true [06:13] * StevenK peers at Steam. [06:14] Now Valve is doing Indie bundles? [06:14] They do sometimes. [06:14] There were a lot about 18 months ago [06:15] wgrant: if it has no search lozenge I see no reason to keep it [06:15] wgrant: (spec search order specifically) [06:16] lifeless: Yeah [06:16] mpt: hey [06:16] tag does, unfortunately :( [06:16] mpt: I am convinced that bug 522741 is a dup, but I can't find the other copy [06:16] <_mup_> Bug #522741: Highlight comments from certain people < https://launchpad.net/bugs/522741 > [06:17] wgrant: sort by tag makes no sense to me; is it getting used ? [06:17] wgrant: (e.g. what do the web logs say) [06:17] lifeless: Probably only by accident [06:17] But I could check [06:17] But it has a lozenge, so it's not trivial to remove [06:17] data >> nodata [06:17] right, but you can start a discussion on the list [06:18] where you can document issues like 'can't use it to find an unknown tag, because it doesn't repeat the row per-tag, just sorts with the alpha-lowest tag' [06:39] StevenK: You didn't address my concern about duplication with LP.cache.context [06:40] In other news, 450 line functions irk me === mabac__ is now known as mabac [07:07] wgrant: Bah, sorry. [07:11] wgrant: I killed it. [07:11] I'm going to have fun merging devel into my UI branch, given it's 35 revisions behind. === mabac__ is now known as mabac [07:35] lifeless, I don't remember that being reported before (though I did think of bug 58670 before seeing that it was already linked) [07:35] <_mup_> Bug #58670: Highlight comments from the reporter

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/58670 > [07:39] mpt: hmm, I was sure there was something, ah well. I have at least cleaned up some more dross in the tracker [08:01] aloha [08:03] good mooriig [08:03] ...morning [08:05] I need someone to translate bug 253934 for me [08:05] <_mup_> Bug #253934: Please bring back the source info to the bug page

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/253934 > [08:05] what do they mean 'source info' [08:06] lifeless, when a bug page was viewed in the context of a source package it would contain the source package portlet. I removed it as a small step towards (hi wgrant!) making the page the same regardless of what context you were in [08:07] thanks [08:07] Heh [08:08] I think I filed a bug in 2006 or 2007 about it being context-dependent [08:10] lifeless: well, mostly, I second comments #1 and #2 [08:10] lifeless: although it occurs to me that a launchpadlib reimplementation of our current script could do a better job of reacting to -security publications without even needing to touch the security team workflow [08:11] maybe [08:11] right now it relies on the package being completely published [08:13] wgrant: is zopeless buried yet ? [08:14] lifeless: Apart from ZopelessLayer and its derivatives, yes. [08:14] So unless it's referring to tests, the bug is a lie. [08:14] bug 781014 [08:14] <_mup_> Bug #781014: View tests should probably not use Zopeless layers < https://launchpad.net/bugs/781014 > [08:14] Still present [08:15] The main reason they shouldn't use it is the main reason it still exists [08:15] LaunchpadSecurityPolicy vs PermissiveSecurityPolicy [08:16] lifeless: anyway, doing *something* with copy-report is on my list, since it needs to be moved off cocoplum [08:18] cjwatson: I'd like to think LP has all the bits needed for that bug, just a matter of using em differently [08:19] I think that's probably true, although the changelog comparison we do in copy-report would be a bit tedious pre-publication [08:20] but it can reasonably wait until I reach this particular bit of the grand refactoring of all our tools [08:20] (which is, hopefully, resourced for Q, if secure boot doesn't entirely eat my life which would make me sad) [08:21] oh, sigh, when EC2Test says you need a publicly accessible SMTP server it really means public, doesn't it [08:22] cjwatson: Everyone just uses smtp.canonical.com [08:22] yeah, changing it according to EmailSetup now [08:22] wallyworld: should https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/885503 be F-R? [08:23] <_mup_> Bug #885503: Its not obvious on the UI how to choose to have all bugs reported against your project marked private by default.

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/885503 > [08:26] lifeless: linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReplaceArchiveAdminShellAccess so I don't forget [08:27] cjwatson: thanks! [08:28] mpt: hah - bug 251479 [08:28] <_mup_> Bug #251479: bug pages should list the published versions

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/251479 > [08:31] lifeless, so if people still want that, and while we still have multi-task bug reports, the challenge then would be to work out how to present it sensibly no matter how many packages are there [08:31] mpt: I've suggested in the bug to have the expander that currently shows the old style form, show details about the context. [08:31] good idea [08:32] No no no [08:32] Don't encourage making multi-task bugs more workable [08:32] Introduce obstructions to their functionality so we can better justify their abolition :) [08:41] I suspect we could close every bug with 'should' in the title with no degradation of the LP bug tracker [08:46] wgrant: you might want to check bug 415223 and see if its still broken, after all the subscription rework [08:46] <_mup_> Bug #415223: "Subscribed by Some Person" tooltip after inline subscription is wrong

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/415223 > [08:46] lifeless: That work never happened :) === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [08:56] /ws/ws 20 [09:08] wgrant: did you end up nuking lazr.restfuls representation cache ? [09:09] lifeless: No, just the LP integration [09:10] more LoC just hanging around [09:16] bigjools: why did you keep bug 613642 open given Ubuntu saying 'no never' ? [09:16] <_mup_> Bug #613642: PPA pages have two different sets of instructions for adding them, rather than providing a button

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/613642 > [09:41] do I need to take any action to deal with my buildbot rejection? [09:42] jtv: Everything okay out there? [09:43] Hmm. [09:43] I see no one has fixed it. [09:43] Hi there nigelb! [09:43] So I guess that means "yes". [09:43] jtv: Ohai. Context of that question - earthquake! [09:43] jml: hi there you too. Buildbot problems? [09:43] nigelb: Just heard about it. Didn't notice it. Mind if I go private? Don't want to distract the channel from Jono's problem. [09:43] oh sure [09:43] rick_h: I have added a review to https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/email_notice_959482/+merge/99995 [09:44] gmb: you may want to read my comment on it too, as you reviewed it initially ^ [09:44] jtv: yeah, a submtted branch failed. wgrant said earlier it was a conflict, but I can't tell if someone has already addressed the issue. [09:46] lifeless: I missed your ping earlier and now I switch clients, what did you want? [09:47] jml: It seems that rick_h inadvertently landed a branch that was not ready [09:47] jml: And, unrelatedly to that, it conflicted with your ignored = branch [09:47] Well, not a bzr conflict. [09:47] wgrant: yeah, I understand. [09:47] But some tests that it added are broken [09:47] bigjools: there is a bug 613642 , but AIUI Ubuntu have said 'we do not want just-a-button for PPAs' [09:47] <_mup_> Bug #613642: PPA pages have two different sets of instructions for adding them, rather than providing a button

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/613642 > [09:47] I was hoping to talk to rick_h to get that branch reverted [09:47] But he probably went to sleep [09:48] bigjools: you said in the bug you were keeping it open because it was clear, but as Ubuntu don't want it, I'm not sure why clarity is a reason to keep it open/. [09:48] wgrant: OK. Maybe it's a good idea to fall back to asynchronous communication? [09:49] lifeless: I'm sure I had a good reason but IBF if I can think of it now [09:49] jml: I intend to talk to him when he comes online in a couple of hours. [09:49] bigjools: I'll leave it for now, let your brain sleep on it [09:49] lifeless: I'd be happy to close it I think [09:49] wgrant: ok. [09:49] bigjools: would you lke me to click the button for you ? [09:50] lifeless: done :) [09:51] \o/ [09:51] I've been procrastinating on allhands.c.c with this [09:59] procrastination, is the answer, procrastination, doing it later! dig it. [10:00] Quick question - also probably stupid question - is there a way I can run LP on OS X? [10:00] virtualbox [10:01] Aww. ok. that's what I'll do then. [10:01] in principle you can run it natively, yes [10:01] It's probably possible to run LP directly on OS X, as long as you have libapt and the like [10:01] but frankly it would basically be a nontrivial time investment for no reward [10:01] But it hasn't been done since 2005/2006. [10:02] lifeless: Yeah, that's what I was not sure about. [10:02] The good thing is I can let rocketfuel take over the virtualbox. [10:02] So it should be trivial at that end. [10:03] I do all my dev in lxc [10:03] Me too [10:03] e.g. I don't even run LP on Ubuntu directly [10:03] LXC probably doesn't run on OS X, though :) [10:03] some porting required [10:03] wgrant: Damn. I was hoping it would work. [10:04] nigelb: how much memory does your machine have? [10:05] lifeless: 2 GB *cough* [10:05] nigelb: so, run a server install, no x or display manager [10:05] i386, not amd64 [10:05] you'll need the X client [10:05] ssh into the vm to do stuff [10:06] you can use a native X server if you want to run up firefox etc within the vm [10:06] I wanted to setup a headless VM [10:07] and then hit it from outside [10:07] that probably needs some hacking to get the domains right. [10:07] its documented on the wiki [10:07] I have a few LP MP/bugs that I want to close. [10:07] oh cool. this should be fun. [10:07] (naturally enough, because thats how everyone developing with LXC gets at their dev instance) [10:08] Oh right. [10:08] I really need a 'this will make wgrant happy' template for bugs [10:08] heh [10:09] lifeless: Oh? [10:09]