[00:01] "Some of the camera work is 'subjective,' as when his drunken perceptions ar rendered by optical distortion; at other timers, it is the camera's mobility that is evocative, as when it passes through the revolving doors that serve as a symbol of destiny." [00:02] From 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die [00:02] And now that I've actually transcribed that, I better put it to use [00:02] darn you [00:08] HAHA [00:08] lol [00:08] gotcha [00:12] Hello === mib_ypah9w is now known as TuxIc3 [00:13] I am ever so curious, about LaRoza, AND HIS BAN FROM uf, IS ANYONE AT LIBERTY TO INFORM ME? [00:13] srry for caps [00:15] uf? [00:15] TuxIc3: We don't generally discuss bans with people unrelated to the situation. [00:15] whats that? [00:15] Myrtti: #ubuntuforums I suppose. [00:16] User Friendly [00:16] oh, right [00:16] the irc channel #ubuntuforums I hope [00:16] not ubuntuforums.org forums [00:17] We don't control the forums themselves. [00:17] Although some members of the IRC team may have administrative roles there. [00:17] nope we don't [00:17] TuxIc3: so... [00:17] was there anything else we can help you with? === Guest51470 is now known as jrib === jrib is now known as Guest25082 === Guest25082 is now known as jrib [01:40] salveeee [01:40] S-T-E-P: How can we help you today? [01:40] ci sono italiani in qst chatt ? [01:40] !it | S-T-E-P [01:40] S-T-E-P: Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (click col tasto destro sul nome del canale per entrare) [01:56] That LjL guy sure gets around. [02:12] yeah [02:56] Good evening, morning, or afternoon [03:12] In #ubuntu-offtopic, snuxoll said: !hig is HIG stands for Human Interface Guidlines, you can find the GNOME HIG at http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/ [03:12] In #ubuntu-offtopic, snuxoll said: !hig is HIG stands for Human Interface Guidlines, you can find the GNOME HIG at http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/ [03:12] sigh. *someone* is trolling. [03:19] !scope [03:19] We don't need factoids for *everything* ;) [03:19] I disagree :) [03:20] Will anyone ever request that factoid? [03:20] That's why we're removing your edit capabilities ;) [03:20] Pici: No [03:20] Exactly [03:20] Maybe only if they've misspelled something eles [03:21] !hid [03:21] Sorry, I don't know anything about hid [03:21] Hm [03:31] I'd thought it would be something about Human Interface Devices or so [03:34] here we go! [03:34] Hehe [03:55] is there any reason why a moderator of the channel would begin answering one of my questions, and then in the middle of the dialog stop, ignore me, accuse me of trolling, kick me from the channel, and then state that I'm not actually in need of support? [04:01] fryguy: sure. one reason could be "that's true." [04:02] not saying it is, but it's a good reason. [04:02] it's not. I'm in legitimate need of support, and find it appalling to be treated that way [04:04] fryguy: can you roll it all up in a pastebin for us? [04:04] no i can not. my client doesn't log chats, and I was kicked part way through the dialog, so I lost the beginning part of the logs [04:05] I can only give the point after I was kicked. if someone can point me to a resource that logs the main #ubuntu channel I will gladly look at that and pull from there, or some other source of a log for the channel [04:05] !logs [04:05] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [04:06] we'll be happy to look at it when you get it compiled. [04:06] is it acceptable if I idle here while I prepare a pastebin? [04:06] the /topic says something about that [04:07] ambiguous enough, i guess i shall take my chances [04:12] [03:46] I'm trying to run gnome on a remote x server. Someone told me I need to install an x client for gnome to run in. What client is this and how do I install it? [04:12] this is after asking essentially the same question ~5 times before that [04:12] hold on one moment while i prepare the paste [04:12] you were clearly goading Flannel, and denying it will insult the intelligence of anyone over the age of 12. [04:12] so please, don't. [04:17] http://paste.ubuntu.com/71189/ [04:31] so yah, consider that my formal complaint. I am unsure why he was accusing me of trolling, I was asking a legitimate question. He seemed to know what he was talking about. I'm trying to leran something. If he in fact didn't know the answer, I would have appreciated an "I don't know" instead of being kicked from the channel and accused of trolling. [04:31] * fryguy goes back to asking in the channel [04:32] If anyone's going to take his complaint seriously, let me know and I'll post all of the relevant bits. [04:33] Flannel, fryguy is a known envelope pusher, as long as I've known him. [04:34] * nickrud needs an editor [04:34] nickrud: No, I know that, he had a run in with me around the same time you originally banned him. [04:35] Considering he's currently asking a question that earlier to mentioned to someone else he "does all the time" [04:36] I see from my logs he came in here a to post a line of someone saying "try google" (paraphrase) then parted. obviously trying to provoke someone [04:37] that's not really a troll like activity: just yesterday I brain locked on apt-get -f install. For the life of me I could not type it, although I knew what I wanted to do. It's just his supercilious attitude [04:37] stdin: That's because I jumped on him the other day (original incident in recent history) for posting vertatim google queries of peoples questions [04:37] (If someone says "how do I install foo" he googles "how do I install foo" and posts the page he gets back) [04:39] fwiw, posting a direct google search URL, rather than searching and picking the best (few) result(s), is against the guidelines: "When helping: be helpful" [04:39] stdin: I know, and thats what I told him [04:40] is it, seemingly, one of the lease enforced guideline from what I've seen though [04:40] stdin: And then he got huffity about that. It wound up with him wanting a list of every site he could post for support. [04:40] stdin: Nah, we tell people to not post bad info all the time [04:41] stdin: That rule is the reason we don't allow root account enabling, *matix, etc. [04:41] I just mean the general guideline. eg: people doing !ask and !repeat but not helping anyone [04:41] Fortunately, it's not a very common occurance, usually out of nescience instead of malice. [04:42] that's skating on the edge of that guideline [04:42] I guess it's subjective though [04:42] I've got to go with stdin on that; often when I see someone give bad info I provide the right (if I know it, of course) without really calling out the bad info poster. I see others doing the same [04:42] stdin: Eh, if someone is helping manage the channel, as long as they're not being a deterrent, I have no problem with it. [04:42] It means the people who can help don't have to. Akin to bug triaging by regular-folk allows the developers to fix bugs [04:42] Flannel: I mean often, not just once or twice when they see it [04:43] "bot-jockeys" I call 'em ;) [04:43] stdin: Yeah, there are people who get bot happy, but I dont think theyre common [04:43] nickrud: Ah, I do. Because you're (theoretically) fixing the problem in the future. [04:43] * nalioth looks at all the time being wasted on this tPrRoOlBlLEM [04:44] did nalioth just fart? [04:44] pftt, nalioth you got a problem with friends talking fluff? [04:45] I'm fine banning him. He is doing this just to waste time. [04:45] Which is against the code of conduct. [04:45] or IRC guidelines. [04:45] maybe introduce him to the concept of "forums" [04:46] I think the question he was asking would be a perfect forum thread, just seems to fit in to the "forum" category in my mind [04:47] stdin: The question he's asking, he openly admitted to performing "on a daily basis" [04:47] he's only asking to be difficult. [04:47] (This was one of the lines he omitted from his pastebin) [04:47] then it's even better for a forum, all he'll need to do is reload the page daily :p [04:49] Ok, I'd really like to ban him based on his continued antics in #u, anyone else have feelings about it? One way or the other? [04:50] Flannel: wait for the next episode [05:40] well, at least with him in a query being annoying, hes not in #u being annoying [05:42] he has long been an envelope pusher, as far back as last summer iirc (fryguy) [05:47] Mhmm [06:03] Anyone been paying attention to unfo, mindrape, et al in #u? [06:03] I haven't been paying attention enough to catch all of it [06:04] it seems to have died down; mindrape seems to think along the lines of fryguy-->helping makes you immune from any kind of action. [06:05] not sure about unfo redirecting folks to #ubuntu-bugs though [06:05] bazhang_: Thats what it seemed like, I just wasn't sure who was the antagonist [06:05] Flannel, mostly mindrape after the initial conflagration; unfo went to -ot when so directed [06:06] bazhang_: Have a timestamp on the initial stuff? Or even a rough guess. [06:06] hang on a sec [06:08] I'm inviting them ehre, since theyre going at it in -offtopic [06:08] forty minutes past the previous hour (give or take); mindrape was upset that unfo had given a google link for a latex question and called him a troll. Did not see that part [06:08] good call [06:08] bazhang_: Yeah, I saw "hes a troll" but didn't see much leading up. [06:08] I guess we'll just have to ask them. [06:09] needhelpnoob: How can we help you today? [06:10] hi [06:10] im just lurking :D [06:10] needhelpnoob, no idling please [06:10] needhelpnoob: Don't lurk here. Thanks. [06:10] o [06:10] ok [06:11] cya :P [06:11] sigh. [06:11] kids these days [06:12] better to discuss it here. [06:12] Howdy fellas. Thanks for stopping by. [06:12] hey Flannel [06:12] /kb unfo from #ubuntu. /discussion [06:12] There's obviously some animosity between the two of you. [06:12] if you dont /kb him then /kb me. /discussion/discussion. :) [06:12] Flannel: mindrape alleges that I am doing bad by asking "why" questions. [06:13] hold up [06:13] read the log. he is asking everybody irrelevant questions. they want help. [06:13] mindrape, unfo, hold up. [06:13] ok [06:13] I'm not going to waste my time arguing my point against a troll... the logs speak for themselves. [06:13] like I said /kb him or /kb me. [06:13] <3 mindrape [06:13] this seems to revolve around recommending a google search of latex [06:13] unfo: Alright, unfo, mind telling us what happened? [06:13] oh well [06:14] Flannel: There are more people in #ubuntu than can be helped. I have been sending some away, e.g. to #winehq, google, and elsewhere. [06:15] Flannel: I am also asking "why" questions. The best example is when someone asked for Microsoft Times New Roman font. I asked them why they needed that font specifically. [06:15] unfo, sending them to -bugs is not the best move [06:15] bazhang_: point taken. [06:15] unfo: While asking "why" has its purpose, that's only if you're going to give better alternatives [06:16] And then if they refuse/don' [06:16] /don't want the alternatives, you should honor that decision [06:16] Flannel: fair. [06:16] * unfo goes through scrollback and looks how he's been doing [06:16] We don't expect you to be able to help everyone, and unfortunately, that means during some periods some people go unhelped for periods of time [06:17] If you have real reasons for pointing them to other channels, that's fine. And I don't see anything wrong with that. [06:17] But, for instance (I haven't read the logs, so this may be completely irrelevant), if someone asks about installing LaTeX, that's obviously an Ubuntu question. [06:17] Whereas using LaTeX could just as easily be elsewhere. [06:17] Flannel: Installing Latex can be learned by googling though, no? [06:17] unfo: you'd be better off sending them to #LaTeX [06:18] unless you're giving them a specific page [06:18] Flannel: you sure? [06:18] ah. [06:18] "go google it" isn't a good response. [06:18] point taken. [06:18] Besides the fact that it's unhelpful, it's also insulting [06:18] Flannel: they did not respond to me. Let me follow up with them now if they're still around. [06:18] (bazhang_: When I see a real crash, I sometimes point the person to -bugs. And in this case I sent someone who had an installer hang there too. Both bad ideas?) [06:19] Also, once you tell them (go to #LaTeX, or here check [url] out), if they don't want to use those resources, don't pester them about it. If they feel they need personalized support (or want their hand held) that's valid. And it just means they'll wind up waiting for someone who *can* provide that to them [06:19] unfo, redirecting is not a good move imo; #ubuntu is the support channel [06:19] (The LaTex questioner is gone.) [06:19] Again, I haven't read the logs, so this may not be relevant to the issues at hand. [06:19] bazhang_: even for crashes? [06:19] unfo: -bugs isn't really a bug support channel (and its often dead anyway) [06:20] unfo, if it is for some esoteric wine thing or alsa/compiz, but -bugs folks will likely not like it [06:21] bazhang_: this is for an evolution crash. even then? [06:21] unfo: If they have what you think is a bug, try searching launchpad (with them), see if they come up with anything, suggest reporting a bug, etc (they may need help reporting it) [06:22] Flannel: that is very hard to do in a channel as crowded as #ubuntu. :) [06:22] Even if the bug report doesn't have all the right info (because you don't know what info may be needed), that'll be asked for when its triaged [06:22] unfo: it's not really no. I do it all the time. [06:22] unfo: If you, or the person you are talking to, is having trouble keeping up, you can sidebar in #ubuntu-classroom (assuming its not being used) [06:22] Its a nice low-noise room if the person reads slowly, etc. [06:23] Flannel: I will try doing that. [06:24] unfo, if people want to PM, it really not your affair. [06:24] unfo: I think that about covers it. Also, if someone gets on your case in the future, feel free to bring it to our attention here (and there's no good that comes from arguing with the person). We try and nip these things in the bud. [06:24] bazhang_: isn't PM'ing heavily discouraged? [06:24] We'd prefer (and you'll prefer) keeping it in the channel. [06:25] Flannel: I will keep that in mind too. [06:25] unfo, if two people (after asking) wish to converse via PM then it is fine. [06:25] Thanks for all the suggestions. [06:25] bazhang_: ah. [06:26] shall I go now, or hang around here a few minutes more in case you have anything more to say to me? [06:26] unfo: That about covers it. Thank you for the support you do, but remember, quality over quantity ;) [06:26] ok. :) [06:27] wish someone who had rights was around in -ot for Paddy_Eire [06:35] sometimes I wish someone would nuke it from orbit [06:35] hehe [06:35] it has become like a low-grade version of the movie Stepbrothers [06:38] @login [06:38] Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong. === bazhang_ is now known as bazhang [06:38] @login [06:38] The operation succeeded. [06:38] @mark virmin #ubuntu repeated offtopic and spam [06:38] The operation succeeded. [06:55] unfo: How can we help you? [06:55] i invited fryguy here. [06:56] unfo: For what? [06:56] unfo, there is no #ubuntu+1 (at least not for support purposes) [06:56] unfo, intrepid support in #ubuntu [06:56] Flannel: regarding a PM. [06:56] bazhang: yes. [06:56] unfo: He said something to you in a query? or what? [06:57] Flannel: yes [06:57] unfo: What'd he say? [06:57] be with you momentarily... [06:57] got a few /msg's do state your beef and I'll get to it eventually. [07:02] mindrape, stop with the offtopic in #ubuntu please [07:02] bazhang: what off topic? I'm helping people out and asking unfo to stop insulting and confusing people. [07:02] [00:04] hello mindrape [07:02] [00:04] hey, how goes it? [07:02] [00:04] so explain your problem and I'll see what I can do. [07:02] [00:04] I dunno, but I'm happy that somebody is listening to me :-) [07:02] people feel insulted by him. [07:03] his comments and constant harassment is not welcome [07:03] giacomo_: if you'd like help /msg me... unfo will just confuse you and lead you down random paths of google links he finds that he thinks are relevant [07:03] and it pisses off newcomers [07:03] I wont ask again. [07:03] mindrape: Alright, few things. We don't need pastes here. Second, I asked you here (this time) for something about *you* not about anyone else. [07:04] well ask away [07:04] what is it about me you would like to know? [07:04] keep in mind I'm trying to help 4 people right now from #ubuntu and about 12 from #php so you are distracting people from getting answers... [07:04] but fire away... [07:04] mindrape: If you have an issue with someone in an Ubuntu channel, bring it to our attention. Don't accuse them of being a troll, don't badger them back and forth. Let the ops sort it out. [07:05] bazhang was aware. [07:05] mindrape: If you'd like, I can get rid of a quarter of your distractions. [07:05] bazhang told us to go to -offtopic [07:05] then he showed up there and told us to come here [07:05] blame bazhang for not knowing how to escalate. [07:05] mindrape: It shouldn't have ever been in #ubuntu in the first place. [07:05] Flannel - like I've said. I'm here to help. If you want to ban me from #ubuntu that is your perogative. [07:05] unfo shouldnt have? I agree. [07:06] mindrape: Just follow the code of conduct, and the IRC guidelines. I can give you links to them if you'd like. [07:06] Flannel - tell it to unfo. [07:06] mindrape: No, you shouldn't have ever gotten started calling people trolls or telling other people to ignore them or whatever. [07:06] he is the one w the issue. [07:06] read the logs [07:06] if you cant figure it out I dont know what to tell you [07:06] he is a troll. [07:06] I cant call a troll a troll? [07:06] mindrape: that's not for you to decide. And no, you can't. [07:07] why not? [07:07] And you can't bait a troll either, or harass them. [07:07] if a person is truly trolling I have to walk on glass? [07:07] I asked him repeatedly to stop. [07:07] he continued. [07:07] I never trolled [07:07] mindrape: Just leave them alone, and let us know. [07:07] [00:09] haha, mindrape is a fag <--- and that is allowed in #ubuntu? [07:07] but I cant call a guy a troll? [07:08] laugh [07:08] hypocrisy at its best. [07:08] mindrape: No, its not. Which is why he's removed. [07:08] anyhow... /msgs to respond to [07:08] mindrape: We prefer you to keep your support in the channel. [07:08] giacomo_: How can we help you today? [07:09] mindrape: #ubuntu isn't a place for vigilante justice. Let the operators know about issues, and we'll handle them. [07:09] Flannel, no no I'm just visiting how #ubuntu community is working from the top :-) you're going great, see you [07:09] giacomo_: We ask people don't visit here, thanks. [07:10] Ups I didn't know, ciao [07:12] mindrape: Do you understand? disagree? whats the story? [07:12] helping people... got 5 msgs now... hold. [07:12] mindrape: Again, don't do Ubuntu support in queries, please keep it in the channel. [07:13] Flannel - I am getting them away from unfo... [07:13] he distracts them. [07:13] mindrape: Keep them in the channel. [07:13] and then they dont follow up when I ask them to run commands and give me results / ouput [07:14] mindrape: Let us worry about any other disturbances [07:14] (you properly notify us, of course) [07:20] mindrape: Do you [07:20] agree, disagree, etc? [07:20] agree. [07:20] busy. [07:21] mindrape: So, we shouldn't have any issues in the future then? And you'll keep your support in the channel? [07:26] mindrape: Care to participate? [07:27] yes [07:27] leaving now... too many windows. [07:27] good grief. [07:28] @mark unfo mindrape #ubuntu badgering [07:28] The operation succeeded. [07:29] well, that took an hour longer than I had hoped [07:29] it must be reaaally late there [07:44] @bansearch mindrape [07:44] No matches found for mindrape!n=mindrape@unaffiliated/mindrape in any channel [08:00] frybye != fryguy [08:00] noted [08:00] MOIN [08:00] yeah I saw that and had the exact same reaction [08:01] Howdy Myrtti [08:01] morning Myrtti [09:19] going down in 6 minutes [09:21] ! [09:36] Could someone point me at the best way to request Ubuntu IRC Team support for a new channel? [09:41] this is a good start. [09:42] emailing ubuntu-irc@lists.ubuntu.com is probably also a good idea. [09:42] what is the new channel? [09:42] #ubuntu-arm [09:43] I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/CreatingChannels now, but I want to make sure that the IRC Team has approrpaite access control and stuff. [09:45] Should I be registering it directly, or should the channel owner be someone on the IRC team? [09:45] it can be transferred at a later date [09:45] the main thing is getting it up and protected [09:46] OK. So best would be to just set it up, and then ask for it to be coordinated by the IRC team by sending a mail? [09:46] yep [09:46] OK. Thanks. [09:46] set changuard on asap, for instance. [09:47] which is fortunately documented in that link [09:47] And what's the best way to get ubuntulog and ubottu to join? [09:47] persia, ubuntulog is harrassing the sysadmins, ubottu is probably going to be ubot3 [09:48] ubot3 works fine. [09:48] Factoid works fine. not found [09:48] nalioth, has ubot3 the ability to take another small chan? [09:48] sure about that? :P [10:30] I could put ubot5 in. [10:31] persia: As for ubuntulog, mail rt@ubuntu.com. [10:31] jpds, Thanks. I'll do that. === myrtti is now known as Myrtti [10:34] "ubot5 has joined #ubuntu-arm" [10:35] breakfast goodness: coffee, bread with piping hot melted cheese, raspberry-muffin ice cream [10:36] right, so if tomorrow goes to plan, i get new phone, and churn to new internet provider. [10:38] woot! [10:38] to what? [10:40] Is this a real internet provider, or still part of the mess that is Telstra? [10:46] internode [10:46] the one true provider. [10:46] as in, check the SFD sponsors list. [10:47] ok, why did i say sfd? [10:47] what a cool named "intranode" [10:47] * elkbuntu headdesks [10:47] I seem to remember them being especially good, although I've not been in the market for an Australian ISP for the past few years. [10:47] i meant linux.conf.au [10:48] did you used to live here? [10:48] ahh,internode. [10:48] is anyone running uvirtbot in #ubuntu-server [10:48] internode costs more than the cheapest, but not as much as telstra, and they have a conscience. [10:48] ikonia: I believe that's soren's bot. [10:49] and, when you ring and say the word linux, the support tech doesnt respond in a hushed whisper. [10:49] jpds: so I assume thats cool then [10:49] elkbuntu, I used manage networks for multinationals in Asia-Pacific. I don't any more, mostly so I can sleep once in a while. [10:50] persia, we were all young and stupid, some just stupider than others, i guess :P [10:50] Indeed :) [10:51] ikonia: 'Tis on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots so I guess it is. [10:52] well spotted [10:55] * elkbuntu goes off to play ppracer for a while [11:08] oh for gods sake [11:08] elkbuntu: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultamatix [11:08] this is just excellent [11:15] who is actually developing it now ? [11:17] 7http://forumubuntusoftware.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1365&sid=6c9152e4d079a05f63853c57f3094f36 ...honestly [11:22] http://forumubuntusoftware.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1365&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=100#p20287 [11:22] ;____; [11:22] that makes baby elephants cry [11:23] that product makes me cry [11:27] oh, the pain [11:29] THE PAIN. [11:31] Myrtti, the regular english version just needs translation to simple [11:31] yup [11:32] fr too [11:32] es too [11:55] another netspliy - freenode is having a hard time at the moment [12:00] @bansearch ef_cod [12:00] No matches found for ef_cod!*@* in any channel [12:00] @btlogin [12:18] I don't need a new phone I don't need a new phone I don't need a new phone I don't need a new phone [12:19] * ikonia has a new phone [12:19] * ikonia flashes it at elk [12:20] I don't need a new phone I don't need a new phone I don't need a new phone... [12:20] Myrtti: which one are you craving [12:20] http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1268601 [12:20] it's not as good as N95, but... [12:20] meh. [12:21] "The Nokia E63 is expected to begin shipping in the coming weeks for an estimated retail price of EUR 199, before taxes and subsidies." [12:21] quite similar to mine [12:21] I've just got eh E71 [12:21] OH SHUTUP [12:21] >___< [12:21] that looks ok though [12:21] pink too [12:21] http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/07/review-nokia-e7.html [12:22] Myrtti: I'll do a swap with you, then you WILL need a new phone. Problem solved. [12:22] Dave2: I can give you my 6021 [12:24] Myrtti: OK, even my phone's better than that [12:24] hey, don't mock up 6021 [12:24] it's trusty s40 phone with bluetooth [12:25] * Dave2 has a somewhat battered 6230 [12:25] 6233 was full of awesome goodness [12:26]