[04:16] Vuokko, No, it's not supposed to be an idling-only channel, but not a lot of people were here. [04:17] I'd suggest trying mobile for that device, if you're willing to run beta software (intrepid). You can get a live USB image to test from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current/ [04:20] well not that many devices that are affordable can run Ubuntu Mobile [04:21] usually around 1,000 dollars, only for people who truly need somthing like that [04:21] i just bought a nokia n810, only $350 and runs a linux based OS [04:23] pretty good linux in your pocket device [04:23] but has ARM processor [04:23] (i'm talking to Vuokko) [04:31] kavon, Well, that's part of why for intrepid we'll have Ubuntu MID (for pocketable devices), and Ubuntu Mobile (for the larger ones). Ubuntu Mobile should be good even for the EeePC, which has gotten pretty cheap in some places. [04:44] Persia, do you know if intrepid works on an jax-10/Aigo device yet? [04:45] MoonshineX, I don't. I know that I need to use the vesa video driver on my D4, so I'm fairly sure the same applies for that deviice. [04:46] persia: :o so we'll have an arm compatible/nokia n810 compatible version? [04:46] MoonshineX, Given the form-factor of those, I'd recommend Ubuntu MID over Ubuntu Mobile anyway : although it looks really pretty, I think it's a little cluttered on that small a screen. [04:46] persia: :D ubuntu MID makes me a happy person [04:46] There's nothing architecture-specific in Ubuntu Mobile, so that mostly depends on whether Launchpad provides ARM buildds. [04:48] For Ubuntu MID, there's still some hardcoded architecture-specific stuff, which needs to get split out, so Ubuntu MID depends on *both* Launchpad getting buildds and some code changes. [04:49] kavon, Ubuntu MID 8.10 is not that different than Ubuntu Mobile 8.04, except for version bumps of software, a couple software selection changes, and support for using one's full secondary storage. [04:49] And a shiny new launcher [04:50] Yes, and a very shiny new launcher, with *lots* more flexibility, and support for such strange use cases as installing more software from the repositories :) [04:54] was afk sorry [04:55] kavon, No issues. Do you have an Aigo? Would you be willing to test a live image and see how well/poorly the intrepid candidates work? [04:55] kavon, Sorry. [04:56] MoonshineX, ^^ [04:56] yes [04:56] i would [04:56] imnot toconfident of the touchscreen driver though [04:56] MoonshineX, Daily images are available from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current [04:56] yea i was looking at those [04:56] I haven't tried today's on real hardware yet, but it booted in KVM. [04:58] persia: nope i have a nokia n810 in the mail [04:59] kavon, Can't help you much with that then. With luck, the mojo.handhelds.org project should recompile intrepid for ARM sometime after release, and there's a chance that you can just install ubuntu-mid (although you'll need to be tricky about the install) [05:00] persia: maemo is good enough for my purposes, debian based too [05:00] persia: most everything i would want to use has been ported already to it [05:00] kavon, heh. That works too :) [05:01] persia: (aka ssh, aircrack, pidgin, vim) [05:02] downloading [05:04] MoonshineX, Thanks! I would expect issues with the video driver, but other than that it ought to mostly work. I'm curious about things like touchscreen, hardware buttons, networking, etc. [05:04] (the networking for my D4 is not working very well) [05:04] d4 [05:04] sharp? [05:05] Yep. [05:06] sweep..thats a neat gadget [05:06] sweet [05:06] Well, it needs a much better battery, and selling it as a "phone" is very odd, but otherwise I like it. [05:07] yea i heard of battery issues [05:07] Basically, the batter lasts long enough for 2 daily rides on the train, and maybe a bit of lunch (and that's with the *extended* battery). [05:07] does the installgive yoiu many options? [05:08] How do you mean? [05:08] aigo has 2 2gb drives [05:08] not much room [05:08] not sure if there are optional components [05:09] There aren't many options, but it ought fit. I'd recommend "manual partitioning", and set one drive as / and the other as /home [05:09] im sure it doesnt matter [05:09] Not much room to add extra software, but if it doesn't work at all, that's a different issue. [05:09] yea good ideabut im moreon the noob side of things :) [05:09] brb in a while [05:09] thx! [07:48] morning [08:35] persia: ping [08:35] davmor2, Yes? [08:35] testcase creation time Dude :) [08:36] RIght. I want basic ubiquity install tests. That's about it. [08:37] Right how much of the installer do you got through and how do you get the image onto the device (these are thing general pulic/new tester will need to know) [08:39] For -mobile the installer isn't any different than for -desktop. For -mid, it might have fewer questions, but that's not working yet. [08:39] The daily images are USB images. You can boot them with KVM as a hard drive, or dd them onto a USB stick for hardware tests (dd if=ubuntu-mobile.img of=/dev/sdq bs=1024k) [08:40] Right so we'll leave mid for jaunty and concentrate on mobile then. [08:40] Well, drop the final 'k' if you don't have lots of spare RAM. [08:40] I expect -mid to be working in the next couple days. [08:40] will that be out in time for rc then? [08:41] The only outstanding issue right now is bug #280014, because some MIDs don't have keyboards, and it's not sufficiently integrated with the accessibility framework to allow entering authentication from the on-screen keyboards. [08:41] Launchpad bug 280014 in ubiquity "Cannot install with a blank password" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280014 [08:41] and somewhere near stable [08:41] Yes. [08:42] It works now, it's just that it's not ideal for users without keyboards, as there is a password. [08:42] (or it would work if there hadn't been a problem with creating today's image) [08:42] I know there are a few dailies not biult [08:43] Right on to apps then [08:43] No app testing required this cycle. [08:43] right so just installer then? [08:44] cgregan did a lot of work recently to prep some cases for -mobile apps, but I'm not sure we have enough active users to complete the test cases in time. [08:44] For -mid I don't think we've updated the test cases since Hardy, and several things have changed. [08:44] Yes, just the installer for now. As much as anything, I just want to get the images blessed as known working for RC, so we don't have issues with people complaining they can't install. [08:45] mid is for small touch screen device like the samsung q1u and mobile is for the netbooks correct? [08:45] The fact that the installer can be run is a sufficient test of the live image at this stage. As we get more users, it matters. [08:46] davmor2, I think the samsung q1u works better with -mobile : it's not that small. -mid is mostly for the Aigo MID, the Sharp D4, and other stuff not yet available retail. [08:46] Think something palm-size vs. something trade paperback size [08:47] persia: okay cool it's only so I can add a distinction between the 2 [08:48] davmor2, I usually describe them in terms of screen size. -mid is 4-6", and -mobile is 7-9". I know someone installed -mobile on a 4.5" screen, but they are a little obsessed :) [08:49] it wasn't ogra by any chance was it ;) [08:52] Erm. How did you guess? [08:53] davmor2, So, what do you need from me? Is it more than just pointing at the existing test cases for the installs? [08:54] persia: no that should be it. I'll ping you later when I've done and you can check it's right okay :) [08:54] davmor2, Certainly. Either here or in -testing. Thanks for looking at it. [08:55] no worries [08:55] I believe we have enough users to provide test coverage on hardware for -mid. I'm less sure about -mobile, but there's a lot of traffic on the mailing list, so a call for testing may help there. [08:55] Do you know if any of the regular testers have hardware suitable for -mobile? [08:57] I got the acer aspire one pass on every one else [08:57] they all have vm though [08:59] You know about the issue with installing from USB images on VMs, right? [08:59] (I presume there are some usb-creator test cases) [08:59] I believe evand is working on it, but I don't think it's fixed yet. [09:23] persia: one last question on partitioning and warnings. Do you automatically take over the whole drive? If so is there a warning screen to let you know this? [09:24] davmor2, It's just ubiquity. Same options as for anything else. [09:24] persia: okay ta [09:24] davmor2, Hardy *did* just randomly reformat the drive, but that was a bug :) [09:36] persia: That's what I've thrown together for now I'll add links and stuff after breakfast but is that alright for now ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Mobile [09:37] davmor2, So, only five more impossible things to do before you eat? [09:38] davmor2, Looks good to me. I presume that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/MID could essentially be a mirror of the same? [09:46] persia: Mid is basically the update for ume isn't it? [09:47] If so I can have a quick flick through the apps and update as appropriate and mid is done :) [09:48] Well, "ume" was never released, as there were two projects that claimed that name. [09:48] yes but the testcases are already in place [09:48] For -mid, don't bother creating app test cases for intrepid: there's not enough time to fix stuff that doesn't match the old cases. [09:49] For Jaunty, that would be a great step though, and we can then either invalidate the test cases, or fix the bugs, and get something more solid. [09:54] persia: no worries. I think I already updated how to install it in kvm and I can't remember if Chris updated how you got it on the device or not, so I'll go and look at that in a bit :) [09:55] mobile is pretty much done now header links etc are in :) [09:55] Cool. Thanks a lot for your help with this. [09:57] np's [10:47] hello i would like to install ubuntu mobile on my eee could you please tell me how [10:57] helloooo [10:57] come on im sure its easy just tell me what should i use mid or image from the download section of the site === asac_ is now known as asac [11:07] zender, download the image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current dd it to a USB stick, and boot off that. If you like it, run the installer. [11:10] ok thx ill try that just now [11:10] if you dont like dd, use usb-imagewriter from https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+archive [11:10] what does dd mean ? [11:11] it does a binary copy of your image to a device (i.e. a USB key) [11:11] i was using unetbooting to write the image to the flash drive [11:12] zender, You could try that. No idea if it works with the Ubuntu Mobile image. [11:13] * ogra ponders setting up a gdebi howto for usb-imagewriter [11:14] ogra, It would make sense. Fleshing out the wiki for -mobile is something needs doing anyway. [11:15] 6 mins until i finish downloading the image [11:16] i saw at one point a ubuntu that would boot directly from ram.. which took seconds to boot up.. having only internet messenger and some games.. not waiting the hdds to boot [11:19] quick quesiton.. where should i install the bootloader? i dont want to mess up my xp so im planning not to install it on hd0 [11:20] or can i ? [11:20] i know that in order to dual boot i have to do some magic tricks to get it to work if i plan on instaling the dualbooter on second partition [11:20] the bootloader* [11:21] in the installer near the end there is a "advanced" button in the bottom right corner ... that enables you to select different options for te bootloader [11:22] where do you recommand to instal it [11:22] as a note i dont want it to mess up my xp partition [11:22] is it safe to leave it to hd0? [11:23] zender, The isntaller should detect your XP partition, and help construct a boot entry that allows you to dual-boot. [11:24] even if at parititoning stage i choose manual and install the linux on my second partition? [11:26] ok it oficially doesnt work with unetbooting [11:26] Right. The partitioning check and the bootloader menu construction check are different. [11:26] You might report that to the unetbootin team : maybe they want to add support? [11:26] please tell me how to use image writer [11:27] do you have an ubuntu desktop system ? [11:27] Install. Run. Select an image. Select a USB drive. Done. [11:27] im under windows atm [11:27] i saw some tgr extensions [11:28] well, we dont have a windows version yet [11:28] ok one sec to boot ubuntu on my laptop [11:28] i have eeexubuntu but cant get the wifi to work [11:28] and it loads so and so .. i want something QUICK for internet at univeristy [11:29] and i stumbled on ubuntu mobile [11:29] mobile uses the same bootprocess desktop uses currently [11:29] persia: is it me or does mobile have a real issue raising the brightness? [11:32] davmor2, Not sure. I've not tried that. [11:32] brightness down seems fine only up seems to be an issue [11:34] ogra, Does it work for you? I think you've tested more than most. [11:35] works fine here [11:35] what HW are you testing on ? [11:36] persia: ogra: it works it's just sluggish increasing brightness. Acer Aspire One [11:37] ah, well, i never tested on a netbook.... [11:38] ogra, That slab you have isn't that different from a netbook : it just has a lousy keyboard. [11:38] heh [11:39] am i supposed to download all 4 files? [11:39] for usb imagewriter [11:40] from your site [11:40] no [11:40] * ogra is just writing a howto ... [11:40] just click on the .deb file [11:40] firefox will offer you to open it with gdebi [11:41] click ok there ... and it should just install [11:41] omg im a bit emberessed.. i use windows bcuz as i said i dont have internet on my xubuntu.. and i was planning on copying the image and the usb installer on the flash and copying them again in the xubuntu [11:41] and taking it from there [11:42] i have 1 pc - windows and 1 laptop - xubuntu [11:43] zender, Just copy the usb-installer .deb to xubuntu, and open it in thunar. That should work. [11:43] (you might miss some dependencies, but gdebi should complain, and I don't think there are any) [11:44] omg brb i will just boot from ubuntu on my pc. didnt want to loose connection with u guys [11:44] be right back [11:50] there is pygtk and glade [11:50] should both be there on xubuntu [11:50] That's what I thought, but as I don't have a xubuntu installation, I figured it's better to be safe. [11:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting [11:57] Woohoo! [11:57] Now we only wait on the installer team fixing the USB-install case, and we're golden :) [11:59] omg [11:59] it took ages to start irc on ubuntu [11:59] can you please give me again the usb installer link? [12:00] launchpad.net/~ogra/+archive [12:01] zender, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting [12:01] just follow the howto :) [12:01] zender, Or give https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting a shot, and comment on the quality of the documentation. [12:02] yeah, its still very short :) [12:02] but should be enough [12:02] While trying to retrieve the URL: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting The following error was encountered: * Connection to 91.189.90.206 Failed The system returned: (111) Connection refused [12:02] Try with https [12:03] ogra, For better performance you might want to use the http://ppa.launchpad.net/ogra/ubuntu/... link rather than the librarian link. [12:04] with https it works [12:05] when clicking on the link to download the usb image installer i get a No Such Resource No such resource error [12:06] zender, Grab it from http://ppa.launchpad.net/ogra/ubuntu/pool/main/u/usb-imagewriter/ [12:06] werid, worked a minute ago, but you are right [12:06] ogra, Maybe a referrer check? [12:07] woah [12:07] * ogra was just logged out [12:07] evil wiki [12:09] ok, link fixed [12:11] be right back to give you feedback [12:22] how much space does the ubunut mobile need in order to run ? [12:23] hey persia [12:24] crevette, Hey. [12:24] I have one question regarding Bluez-gnome 1.x [12:24] zender, Recommended minimum allocation is 4GB. [12:24] crevette, Yes? [12:25] does the file sharing is really desactivated or only removed from the UI [12:26] because I was thinking for people like me who were using file sharing and how it impact the migration [12:26] impacts [12:27] is it ok if i set the ext0 to 10 gb, swap 2 gb and rest of hdd make it fat so i can see it in windows as well? [12:27] 10G is more than enough [12:28] the install occupies 2.5G [12:29] crevette, Should just be removed from the UI. Right-clicking on the applet still lets me browse other devices. [12:30] (but only once, and then it crashes, as you have seen) [12:31] what should i use for paritioning so that the hd would be recognised in windows ? fat? [12:31] persia: not browsing but sharing [12:31] fat32 or ntfs are probably best. fat32 is probably easiest. [12:32] crevette, Ah. Yeah, that functionality isn't in bluez-gnome anymore at all. [12:32] It now needs gnome-user-share, which is fine, except that people are complaining about the dependency on apache2. [12:33] I don't know the right resolution to this, and was hoping you had a good set of ideas. [12:33] persia: Yeah I know [12:33] implement a web server in twisted [12:33] ? [12:33] :) [12:34] pulling out a web server is not ideal, but apache is not that heavy [12:34] the only problem is that enable also the web service at system level [12:34] Yeah, but there's not really any space on the CDs already... [12:34] ah [12:35] So trying to use something significantly smaller would be ideal. [12:35] that's a different issue, I was thinking on system security also [12:35] Ideal we need a user space web server [12:35] Yeah, there's that too, but I'm more concerned about CD size. The server team does a pretty good job of making sure apache2 is fairly secure. [12:35] which run *only* for the user [12:36] omg this is crazy.. the instalation doesnt let me to create a 3rd partition. says unusable space and doesnt let me press NEW PARTITION [12:36] after creating the first 2: ext0 and swap [12:37] zender, You might be getting hit by the limit of DOS partition maps to 4 primary partitions. [12:37] i have only 2.. and the last one i try to split in into 3 [12:49] cant ubuntu mobile connect to wireless network without setup? [12:49] unprotected ones [12:50] zender, Should be able to do so : it's the same kernel as for Xubuntu. [12:51] * ogra thinks there is still a bug that makes it ask for a gnome-keyring password every boot [12:51] lol wifi didint work for me in xubuntu [12:51] but thats supposed to be fixed in final [12:51] crevette, Would dhttpd meet the requirements? [12:52] persia: I have no idea [12:53] crevette, OK. My problem is that I don't understand why it needs apache2 at all. Looking through packages, dhttpd is only 139k installed, and says "can be run from a user account" which makes me think it might be a good choice for this. [12:55] persia: we could discuss with upstream who works also for redhat [12:55] he is hadess on Gimpnet and freenode [12:55] I'm in a middle on something else [12:56] I'm finishing that and I'm back [12:56] crevette, OK. I'm falling asleep and have a couple meetings left tonight, so I won't be much help until tomorrow. [12:57] okay [12:57] tomorrow is when for you ? 8 hours ? [12:58] more like 12, as I'll be attending meetings for the next 3 at least, and probably have to chase some stuff after that. [13:03] So, the Mobile Team meeting is starting in #ubuntu-meeting, if anyone is interested. [13:03] * crevette goes there to see what look like an IRC meeting === mterry_ is now known as mterry [15:14] Hurrah! Successful -mid install with only two tweaks to the image. The next set of dailies should be clean. [15:15] * ogra applauds [15:16] It's really quite impressive the number of different places one needs to do the exact same thing for that to work. === persia_ is now known as persia [18:18] the normal ubuntu intrepid (kernel) does' not run on my atom based intel d945gclf [18:19] system, a bit sorry if you ask me..... [18:29] could you please tell me how to make ubuntu mobile to search wireless networks ? [18:36] zender, if it detected your wlan card it should just list the available accesspoints in the little applet at the top right [18:37] mrxmike, what makes you think that ? [18:38] ogra if i type iwconfig i get no wireless extension [18:38] and the wifi led is ON [18:38] and in windows it works fine [18:38] looks liek the kernel has no driver for your card, do you know which card that is? [18:38] no i have eee 1000 h [18:39] just tell me where to search and ill do it [18:41] lspci should list all builtin devices [18:41] open a terminal and type that in [18:42] then look for wlan or wireless in the ouput [18:44] no wlan or wireless only network controler and ehternet controller [18:45] do you have a BIOS setting for the wlan device ? probably its switched off in the bios [18:45] there is also the lsusb command in case your wlan device is usb btw [18:46] one sec to check the wlan [18:46] but if its set to 0 in bios [18:47] shouldnt that mean its off in windows as well?\ [18:47] likely, but it still helps to check :) [18:47] do you have any HW killswitch on the outside of the case that could be off ? [18:48] in bios onboard wlan is enabled [18:48] no man.. its a simple laptop.. and wifi led is ON everytime [18:48] well, anything in lsusb ? [18:49] * ogra wonders where the wlan device is hiding [18:49] 1 sec its booting up [18:49] took a trip to bios [18:50] man but can't i rearange the icons position on the upward taskbar?\ [18:50] sure [18:51] you need to unlock them first [18:51] right click and uncheck the "locked" in the contxt menu [18:53] ok i can move the one to the left of the clock.. but what about the ones on the right ? [18:53] sound and battery etc [18:53] battery sits in the notification area [18:53] lsusb doesnt show anything with wlan included [18:53] you can only move the whole area [18:54] volume control and brigntens are on their own, you can eparately move them [18:54] zender: did you put your device into suspend ever? [18:54] well, thats a bit weird, so your system doesnt have a wireless card apparently :P [18:54] no.. i just instaled the ubuntu [18:55] he means under windows [18:55] well.. it should have one as in windows i can use it [18:55] did you ever suspend it under windows ? [18:55] what do you mean by suspend? [18:55] some windows drivers have a bad habit to disable devices if you put it to sleep [18:56] close down the monitor sure [18:56] but the wifi its still working after its live again [18:57] windows can put your card into deep sleep so nothing else can see it [18:58] so what do you recommand [18:59] if you have a net connection (sorry i missed the first part of your conversation) try this command in a shell [18:59] sudo -C network [18:59] i did try to connect my ethernet cable but ubuntu didnt react in any way [19:00] oope ...sudo lshw -C network [19:00] ah, finally [19:00] it has an RT2700E [19:00] * ogra wonders why its so hard to find any proper spec for that device [19:00] are you talking about my laptop ? [19:01] yes [19:01] is that good or bad? [19:02] sudo lshw command not found [19:02] apt-get install lshw [19:03] it shows info about hardware configuration [19:03] could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/log - open )13 permission denied) [19:03] unable to lock the administration directory [19:03] sudo in front [19:03] couldnt find package lshw [19:04] ian_brasil, he would have to install lshw from the net anyway [19:04] which kind of doesnt work without network :) [19:04] ogra: well.. 64bit intrepid desktop/server kernel crashes (of the livecd) [19:05] 64bit ?? [19:05] yes [19:05] atom is definately not 64bit [19:05] ian_brasil can i copy it from windows from internet somewhere? and unpack it in ubuntu? [19:05] ah, i thought zender was just debugging a wifi problem [19:05] he is [19:05] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverthorne_(CPU) [19:05] ogra: atom is 64bit [19:05] supports full EMT64 set [19:06] Those Atoms in netbooks aren't 64-bit :X [19:06] zender: you have an ethernet connection [19:06] im not sure.. at first i tried to instal a 64bit ubuntu and it didnt work [19:06] "Instruction set x86, x86-64" [19:06] ian_brasil yes but not recognised by ubuntu [19:07] zender: the card is not recognised or you do not get an IP address? [19:07] mrxmike, afaik silvethrone is a 686 [19:07] it is [19:07] with 64bit instructions [19:07] check the wiki [19:07] ian_brasil if i plug in the ethernet cable nothing happens [19:07] try opening a terminal and typing sudo dhclient [19:08] the lspci shows a ethernet nad network controller [19:08] and [19:08] mrxmike, well, then the wiki knows more than me all the atoms i'v seen and had in my hands yet are 32bit [19:08] with the ethernet cable plugged in obviously [19:08] :) [19:08] if i do that i loose conection with you [19:09] well try it and see what happens ..people here hang around for hours normally :) [19:09] ogra: http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/24/atom_230_4.jpg [19:09] EM64T you see that? [19:09] ok 1 sec [19:10] btw if i get connection can i activate it somehow? [19:10] so that i chat from there [19:10] when you get a connection just open a browser [19:11] mrxmike, i wont argue with you, i personally have seen a lot of atoms in the last two years, none of them would have been 64bit capable but that doesnt mean they dont exist [19:11] zender do this [19:11] be right back [19:11] shoot [19:11] reboot with the cable in [19:11] open a terminal and type [19:11] sudo dhclient [19:12] ogra: well.. we can discus without 'having a fight' > i mean -> im talking about the "Atom 230" single core [19:12] and then type ifconfig [19:12] mrxmike, and none of them had even a Z in its versioning [19:12] it reports as 64bit [19:12] Z? [19:12] you pointed to a Z530 [19:12] the first command will try to get a connection [19:12] The 64-bit versions are of the desktop variant. [19:13] and the second will show if you are connected or not [19:13] ogra: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/b3nnylase/giga_atom/cpuz2000.png [19:13] Nanojit, right, rarely found in any of the mobile devices :) [19:13] that was a cpu-z thing i think... [19:14] anything else ian_brasil [19:14] well try to remember what the commands say ;) [19:14] wrote them down [19:14] thx [19:14] be right back [19:14] if you do not get a connection that is [19:15] ogra: are you a dev as well? ;) [19:15] mrxmike, http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/24/atom_230_4.jpg Name: "Intel Atom Z530" ... but no point in discussing that here, as Nanojit says, thats likely a server CPU, you would be better off to discuss it in #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu-kernel, nobody in this channel will have had his hands on a 64bit capable atom on a mobile device [19:15] mrxmike, yes [19:16] a 'server cpu'? :S [19:16] ahh well [19:16] you're right [19:16] well, you wont find it in a UMPC or MID :) [19:16] The eee Box uses it. [19:16] I guess. [19:16] with luck there might be laptops or desktops with it [19:16] no ok, and we are not gonna argue about silly things :) [19:17]