[00:01] heh [00:01] so is anybody looking at usb device reassignment for intrepid ? everytime I reboot the ttyUSBs are all random [00:01] I have to run a script in rc.local to try and sort them out and create symlinks [00:01] not that I'm aware of [00:02] yeah I can't find any bug posts or anything even related [00:02] in general, device names are not guaranteed to be persistent across reboots unless you use udev rules to link them [00:02] I don't know about USB ttys though, I've never even had one of those let alone two [00:02] right, but udev doesn't seem to know the diff === johanbr_ is now known as johanbr === gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak [00:11] slangasek, you know udev ? [00:13] slangasek, if you can make udev rules that figure out these usbs you would be my hero http://pastebin.com/m5ac22ce0 [00:13] I only know udev on a cargo-cult basis [00:20] where can I find the udev devs :) [00:20] well, the Ubuntu udev maintainer just timed out of the channel... :) [00:20] doh! [00:21] hey probably read my pastebin and locked up [00:22] slangasek: ah, is there no udev/DBUS/HAL script to use to kick network-manager into gear before you login? [00:22] lucent: the only keystore network-manager currently supports is gnome-keyring [00:23] which makes logging in to password-protected networks ... problematic [00:23] oh gosh. [00:23] gnome isn't even there yet, so uh, I see now. [00:23] it would require some kind of "IMEH CHARGIN MY LAZERZ" followed by udev/DBUS/HAL hack [00:24] that's not a typical use case for a desktop system, is it? [00:25] are you defining "desktop" as "running GNOME", or as "not a laptop"? [00:25] because roaming Kerberos authentication is totally a valid use case [00:25] the problem with udev is that it only sees the USB_BUS and USB_DEV and those swap every reboot... udevinfo does not have enough specific info to define custom rules http://pastebin.com/m5ac22ce0 [00:25] I'm defining wifi on boot as the use case [00:25] how common is that anyways? [00:26] wifi on boot pre-login [00:26] lucent: not as common as it ought to be, but it's *my* chosen configuration. :) [00:28] Kerberos is pretty important at the enterprise level, both in the context of AD and for more traditional Kerberos setups [00:28] there's no sensible default for this IMO [00:28] sure there is: have a keystore that doesn't have a password, that root is allowed to read [00:28] unless you're going to hack GDM to have a wifi selector [00:28] they're friggin' wep keys, not state secrets [00:29] (unless you work for the goverment, then, ok, maybe the wep keys are state secrets) [00:29] it's not just the keystore though that is a problem [00:29] it's the usability [00:29] you could have two step login, first local to start the network support, then over AD or whatever [00:29] what if you have a wep + VPN that you log into before getting network access to the domain? [00:30] I don't consider "which network should we connect to?" to be a per-user setting [00:30] so I don't think it should use per-user password stores [00:30] hwilde: this is contrary to the goal of Single Sign-On [00:30] it's per-user because of the use of keystores [00:30] but hten how does admin login to the secure network when you break your enterprise login :) [00:30] hwilde: I *can* do that, but it's bloody annoying [00:30] slangasek, consider me the devil's advocate then until I have consistent usb devices :) [00:31] heh [00:31] slangasek: IMO the course of action is a new package which includes a boot-time configuration interface for networking [00:32] I don't want to have to interact at all with the system in order to get it to come up on the network either, if that's what you mean [00:32] specifically "extra weird" networking like wifi on boot, or vpn tunnels [00:32] system password store + n-m --> bring the network up without me having to touch it [00:33] n-m actually already does this for interfaces that don't require passwords [00:33] but if it's a password-encrypted network, you have to log in and run the applet to get anywhere [00:33] secured network access on boot without user input? That's not security! [00:33] iz broken [00:33] er [00:33] might as well autologin at that point [00:33] sure it is [00:33] um no [00:33] seriously, hwilde [00:34] let's think this through here [00:34] how do we provide secured network access on boot, before gdm [00:34] so that gdm can login to resources on a secured network [00:34] if this is restricted to enterprise networks, there should only be one network to connect to. [00:34] hwilde: ahem, you already admitted above that you do the same thing on your system, only without the use of n-m [00:35] there's no reason it would be restricted to enterprise networks [00:35] my system is an autonomous robot so yeah it starts up automagically. [00:35] it's restricted to machines that are part of an enterprise *environment*, which may include both enterprise wifi and public roaming [00:36] slangasek, but there is only *one* network in that enterprise environment that you need pre-login connectivity aka where is the active directory [00:36] i.e., if I have a company-issued laptop, I want to get Kerberos authentication at the gdm screen, whenever I'm connected to a network [00:36] hwilde: no, why would you assume I would only use Kerberos when I'm directly connected to the network? :) [00:37] I dunno, I guess I am missing why everyone objects to the method you have worked out [00:37] it's my single sign-on, and I use it for everything from verifying my own password (company laptop, remember), to accessing fileshares (when I'm in range), to authenticating my email client [00:37] if you can't login, you can't have access to the network, so why not startup networking before login? [00:38] hmm? I don't claim that everyone objects to that [00:38] it just doesn't work currently with n-m [00:38] ohhhh [00:38] because no one's implemented a system-level password store, because GNOME people think about these things upside-down. :) [00:39] I'm asking how do we provide secure network layer access before gdm so we can login [00:39] typically they respond to popular demand [00:39] but that is an important piece to taking market share away from windows in enterprise environments [00:39] maybe a power-on password? [00:40] USB thumbdrive as a key? [00:40] lucent: if you really have a network that only a subset of your users are allowed to connect to, fine -- don't put that key in the system password store? :) [00:40] what if you use an encrypted rsa/dsa key to authenticate to the network at first, then you can to kerberos login? [00:40] and then it would work the same way that it works today [00:40] handing out physical layer access to your corporate network is not very bright [00:41] there should be a way to add a hook for VPN access too [00:41] handing out physical access to your corporate laptop is probably not very bright either then ;) [00:41] shit gets stolen. I mean, things happen [00:42] encrypted partition [00:42] Okay, encrypted partition, good. Now you need a password at boot to access your system? [00:42] no the encrypted partition has the network key that gets online pre-login [00:42] in that case, yes [00:42] then the user can authenticate with AD or kerberos or whatever [00:42] in this scenario, having a package which implements a boot-time selectable network pre-config makes sense [00:43] without a key [00:43] instead you still need a means to be able to take user input though [00:43] like the VPN passphrase [00:43] unless you're storing VPN passphrases (not possible with OTP and not likley to be permitted by corporate) [00:44] the problem remains that you need user interaction to get network connectivity before you log in [00:44] having to VPN in before you log in == doesn't work with Windows AD member machines either [00:45] slangasek: I am not familiar with Windows AD, what is this? [00:45] AD == Active Directory? [00:45] consider yourself lucky... [00:45] oh okay [00:46] gtg, if you see Keybuk or any udevs ask them if mine is a lost cause: http://pastebin.com/m750bddea [00:46] well, hmm, I don't /think/ you can start a VPN connection from Windows before logging in, but maybe you can run the VPN client as a system service too [00:46] The only big corp I worked for that had any level of secure login was Google, Inc. [00:48] so... not a lot of Microsoft anything [00:48] VPN pre-login would be a cool enhancement [00:49] right, I won't ask you about what kind of VPNing they do, there are other people on the channel I can bug about that who probably have a better chance of being able to legitimately tell me :) [00:49] but Kerberos is certainly a class of technology that's in Google's ballpark [00:50] I was a datacenter Monkey, I can't tell you any more than this :) === cr3_ is now known as cr3 [01:16] * toresbe thinks he's found what should've been filed as an RC bug... [01:17] apt-get upgrade to hardy breaks on python-irclib [01:17] uh... [01:17] aren't we supposed to use the upgrade-manager? [01:18] sorry. "upgrade-manager" breaks on python-irclib. :) [01:18] as do subsequent invocations of dpkg --configure -a. [01:19] toresbe: any details? (e.g. output of "upgrade-manager" *g*)= [01:20] toresbe: Let me guess... python-central complains about files being in the directory that aren't owned by it?" [01:20] wgrant: won't remove local files, something to that effect [01:20] It's like the python-opengl one I found; it needs C/R on python2.[34]-irclib [01:20] hey wgrant... where's fujitsu? *g* [01:20] Right, that's right. [01:20] sistpoty: Back in Hardy. [01:20] heh [01:21] toresbe: Please file a bug, and I'll get it SRUed shortly. [01:21] I'm in console mode trying to prepare for a reboot (my grub setup is kinda' awkward and roundabout) [01:21] whoopsies [01:21] note to self: [01:21] wgrant: I don't know what an SRU is, but I'll do my best. [01:21] :) [01:21] toresbe: Stable Release Update. [01:21] do *NOT* make a loopback device on a LV and then use it to extend the LV itself [01:21] wgrant: cool [01:21] jdong: haha [01:21] toresbe: For now, it's fairly easily recoverable. [01:21] well that was my attempt at perpetual motion. [01:22] wgrant: I just removed the package, worked a treat ;) [01:22] toresbe: apt-get remove python2.4-irclib [01:22] * lucent rolls through a Microsoft Windows XP install in kvm [01:22] python-central is so unbelievably fragile. [01:22] this is so difficult, versus Hardy install [01:22] toresbe: Great. [01:22] heh. :) [01:22] anyway, the rest of it is working great. Thanks, everyone in here, for another neato release. [01:23] python-central-related upgrade failures should be top priority, as they can bring down an entire upgrade very easily. [01:23] Hardy installer is missing a feature that is in Windows XP installer: It's not telling me that I'm an idiot. [01:23] :P [01:23] haha [01:23] lucent: Heh. Indeed. [01:23] I'm thoroughly bummed about the Heron T-shirt being limited-edition. It's so good-looking I'd like one for myself. [01:23] toresbe: They had Gutsy ones until very near Hardy's release. [01:23] toresbe: I'm sure you can get one. [01:23] oh, I agree toresbe, that design is ill (really good) [01:24] lucent: straight up, yo. [01:24] I was looking and thinking, if I had money right now, I would buy a T and wear it to burning man [01:24] I don't know, does it have "Ubuntu" words on it? I don't want the words if I'm wearing something there [01:24] the design is really cool and I like that [01:25] * toresbe wonders if he has met lucent at debconf, which would explain why he felt the need to explain "ill" to him. [01:25] :) [01:25] har, no *nix gatherings since a long time now [01:26] toresbe: Wait, are you upgrading from Dapper? [01:26] I watch those things from a safe, moderate-intelligence required, distance. They're really full of people who are overwhelmingly intelligent. [01:26] lucent: Hey, I'm an idiot, I have a great time there. === GBGames|away is now known as GBGames [01:27] lucent: I do lots of stuff that require no computer skills. Last debconf, I fixed a church organ with duct tape. [01:27] * jdong moans about the word idiot's high standards these days [01:27] wgrant: no, Gutsy. [01:27] Hmm, that's not what I thought it was, then. [01:27] toresbe: groovy! I'm into tinkering with other people's code and engineering work, never my own [01:27] toresbe: Did it mention any file in particular? [01:29] wgrant: nope... sorry, I probably should've made allowance for letting some devs poke around before I removed the package. [01:29] toresbe: I should be able to reproduce it here. [01:29] wgrant: cool. [01:29] * toresbe reboots, takes opportunity to stuff in a video capture card he's been wanting to try [01:29] up 11 days, pfah [01:30] toresbe: Did you have python2.4-irclib installed? [01:39] toresbe@fortran:~$ dpkg-query -f '${Status},${Package}\n' -W *irclib* [01:39] purge ok not-installed,python-irclib [01:39] install ok installed,python2.4-irclib [01:39] wgrant: see above :) [01:39] That's impressive. [01:40] That should have been removed when you upgraded from Dapper. [01:40] So it is the bug I thought. [01:40] hah [01:40] That bug is *so* three releases ago? :) [01:40] Ugh! Sad to see that gnome-terminal hasn't gotten any less useless on this machine. Maybe it's a config file issue or something, but irssi screen redraws take several 1/10ths of a second. [01:41] nearly a whole second [01:41] * toresbe goes back to uxterm [01:41] Oh, and another cute one... [01:41] toresbe: I use gnome-terminal fine with screen here. [01:42] it works well on my work Hardy machine with the same nVidia driver... probably just a weird issue. [01:42] http://gunkies.org/stuff/hardy-ohdearme.png :) [01:42] ... [01:42] Nice. [01:43] The /Music isn't just wrapped off the first one, is it? [01:43] Good question. I'll kill gnome and try again [01:44] Hrm. Could well be, but resizing is not possible. :) [01:44] So most probably it's doing some kind of automated sizing which may or may not be to blame [01:46] Actually, a quick question which might be construed as a user support question: Anyone here have any experiences with, and/or advice for a video4linux previewing application? [01:46] I used to use tvtime, but this is just an svideo grabber. [01:52] wgrant: oh no, what happened to your nick?! [01:52] say it ain't so ;-) [01:52] LaserJock: It got left in Hardy. [01:54] I thought maybe Colin and Tollef had pulled you to the dark side [01:55] Not as far as I'm aware. [01:55] you'er not supposed to be aware [01:55] like that pill thingie they use in night clubs [01:55] Hahah. [02:10] pill... thingie? [02:10] nevermind, I didn't ask [02:11] *babies* [02:12] alcohol works as countermeasure, I've heard from s.o. :P [03:52] Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but are there plans to have the .25 kernel in the repositories at some point? [03:55] MattJ: For Intrepid, yes. [03:56] For Hardy, no. [03:56] Not even in backports? [03:56] wgrant: except that I expect it'll be .26 or later for intrepid... [03:56] lamont: But it's 2.6.25 now. [03:56] sure [03:56] MattJ: Backporting kernels is truly evil.l [03:57] ^^ [03:58] iwlwifi is not working for me, and I need it to [03:58] Getting 2.6.25 is not the soluition to that. [03:58] Filing a bug and getting it fixed is. [03:58] I found someone with a similar/same problem on lkml, they say it is fixed in .25 [03:59] wgrand++ [03:59] Since the issue is not a security issue, is it likely to be fixed in Hardy? [03:59] lamont: Pfft, I thought it would be easier to type than Fujitsu. [04:00] MattJ: Very probably for 8.04.1 [04:00] * MattJ files bug [04:00] A lot of kernel regressions are scheduled for fixing then. [04:00] :) [04:00] 8.04.1 should happen in very early July. [04:00] MattJ: the proper technique there is to bisect the kernel [04:01] and any idea of the short term solution for me? Gutsy (with ipw3945) worked ok [04:01] MattJ: File a bug and see what the kernel devs say. [04:01] k, will do so now [04:01] Perhaps use the Gutsy kernel for now. [04:02] I used to use the Gutsy kernel on Feisty, how funny :) [04:03] MattJ: Is there anything special about your config? I've used Hardy's kernel on several ipw3945 boxes recently, and it seems to work. [04:04] ipw was the old (pre-Hardy) driver, Hardy uses the newer iwlwifi (from the kernel) [04:04] Nothing special, this is a fresh install [04:05] A lot of people have had problems even detecting networks, but using the hardy backports modules seems to help those [04:05] My problem is that it won't set up an ad-hoc network [04:05] which I use every day [04:10] The hardest part of filing a bug is knowing which package to file under [04:10] MattJ: linux, probably. [04:12] That warns me about filing a bug for upstream linux, etc. [04:15] MattJ: The linux package. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug [04:15] Ah, thanks :) [04:19] MattJ: I filed this as high about 6weeks before release [04:19] MattJ: but the more dups the better [04:19] sladen: Oh, where? [04:20] I couldn't find any with my specific problem [04:20] MattJ: file _your_ bug [04:21] if it's a dup, it'll get duped, but at least there will be an independent report in your words [04:21] How do duplicates help? :) [04:21] If you insist [04:21] MattJ: It helps persuade someone that the problem is important [04:22] If it were my bug tracker I would be annoyed at someone knowingly filing a duplicate :) [04:22] some people do [04:22] for me (personally), a good indicator of the relative size of a problem are the number of dups [04:23] and with them you get separate individual reports (multiple angles onto a problem) and not just misleadings "me toos" are actually turn out to be something else and need weeding out [04:25] MattJ: [after you've filed yours], start at bug [04:26] MattJ: [after you've filed yours], start at bug #205390 and recursively follow the dups [04:26] Launchpad bug 205390 in ubuntu "8.04 beta; wireless broken after upgrade (ipw3945/iwl3945/ifrename/udev) (dup-of: 183968)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205390 [04:26] Launchpad bug 183968 in udev "mac80211 "master" interface matches existant persistent network rules" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183968 [04:37] sladen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/222302 [04:37] Launchpad bug 222302 in linux "iwl3945 can't set parameters for ad-hoc network" [Undecided,New] [04:38] I don't have the wlan0_rename issue other people have [04:43] I'll investigate installing the Gutsy kernel tomorrow [04:43] Thanks for the help :) [04:51] has anyone ever heard of an idea where you would use a torrent to download debs for version upgrades instead of having everybody upgrade veeerrrryyy slowly when a new version is released? [04:52] because torrents of course scale opposite to http/ftp downloads, so if you did that upgrading would go much faster [04:53] ? [04:53] how would that be faster? [04:53] i mean you would need a dedicated torrent for each file [04:53] that would unmanageable [04:53] mgolisch: no [04:54] no, you don't [04:54] how else? [04:54] you can make a torrent of all the deb files and then only download the ones you want [04:54] if it where just one you would have to wait for the whole thing to complete [04:55] or did i get something wrong? [04:55] i mean you cant control in what order the chunks are downloaded [04:56] then how is it in KTorrent I can proitize files and choosenot to download them? [04:56] ick [04:56] prioritize files and choose not to [04:56] hm no idea maybe iam wrong [04:58] basically I'd be interested to know if it's been done, because it's something I think would be interesting to work on but I don't want to put in lots of effort if it's already made [05:01] hdevalence, it's been done, but never very successfully. a new implementation would be nice. [05:02] hdevalence, apt-torrent: http://sianka.free.fr/ [05:03] i was thinking it would be neat to try getting it to use the alternate install cd torrent [05:04] but I don't know if that's the best way [05:05] anyways, I need to sleep [05:05] or you can use Conary and download only the files that have changed :) === thegodfather is now known as fabbione [05:35] anybody around running Hardy and have gnumeric installed? [05:36] LaserJock, I can probably install it. What seems to be the problem? [05:36] pi doesn't worh [05:37] *work [05:37] bug #222062 [05:37] Launchpad bug 222062 in gnumeric "functions don't work in formulas" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222062 [05:38] LaserJock, installing. Might take a minute or two while the repos try not to die with all the hammering they're getting these days [05:41] LaserJock, what are you doing exactly? =PI() in a cell? [05:42] hmm [05:42] I just used PI [05:42] just type in PI? [05:42] ah, PI() does work [05:42] it doesn't for me :) [05:42] oh [05:42] yes it dows [05:43] er, does [05:43] I went for pi() because I saw the word function somewhere :p [05:43] well, pi isn't a function [05:43] it's a constant [05:43] but ... hmm [05:44] right, I wouldn't of tried that if the bug didn't mention "functions" [05:44] LaserJock, http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnumeric/doc/gnumeric-PI.shtml [05:45] well, we need to figure out if it's a change in behavior [05:47] LaserJock, http://www.mailarchives.org/list/gnumeric-list/msg/2005/00002 [05:47] tehre are emails from 2005 [05:47] of users using pi() [05:47] (yes, my typing sucks today) [05:47] hmm [05:47] so what went wrong for the bug reporter I wonder [05:49] beuno: thanks for the help, I've followed up on the report [05:49] LaserJock, np [05:50] sometimes it just takes someone totally unaware of everything to look at it differently :) [05:50] I force random people at the office to look at code when I'm stuck [05:50] and it usually is something terribly obvious [06:15] Hello, why I get compiler errors in this statement ----> this->_txt_Password->signal_insert_at_cursor().connect( [06:15] sigc::mem_fun(*this, &LoginForm::onInsert_txt_Password)); === asac_ is now known as asac [07:15] someone told me that snd-hda-intel was kind of disabled in hardy, to convenience the other sound card drivers. is that true? [07:15] specifically, --with-cards=hda-intel was not put during alsa configuration [08:11] DaBonBon: Can't imagine how that's possibly true, given than my hda_intel stuff is working great. [08:14] Mine's working better than ever as well. [08:29] strange, because my card is working really pathetic [08:30] DaBonBon: Can you please be more descriptive? [08:30] wgrant: yes, first of all, sound sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. headphone automute doesn't work. i get too many channels in alsamixer [08:31] all this used to happen pre 1.0.15 release of alsa, but after installing ubuntu-backport-modules in gutsy, which had alsa 1.0.15, all the problems were solved [08:31] DaBonBon: Well, there are so many types of HDA cards that it's not surprising. [08:31] now again, in hardy, i get those problems [08:31] Please file a bug. [08:31] wgrant: no, this card if fully supported [08:31] Apparently not. [08:31] wgrant: well, someone told me that snd-hda-intel has been deliberately disabled to facilitate other sound cards [08:32] wgrant: yes, because it works perfectly on alsa 1.0.15, atleast in gutsy and other distros [08:32] That sounds very odd, as Intel HDA is one of the most common types these days... [08:32] exactly! [08:32] And how on earth would disabling something facilitate support for other card? [08:33] * laga hands out tinfoil hats [08:33] i guess i'll file a bug [08:33] wgrant: here is a part of the logs -- [08:34] http://rafb.net/p/LQQ7ff80.html [08:34] i don't know till how much extent is it true [08:35] Ah. [08:35] Well, file a bug, anyway. [08:38] wgrant: what package should i file it against? [08:40] DaBonBon: I think it's in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24, but possibly linux. [08:48] ok, i must leave.. thanks for the help, wgrant .. [10:39] is hardy-proposed supposed to be completely empty (I am looking at bug 208666 and fixed audacious)? [10:39] Launchpad bug 208666 in xmms-crossfade "audacious crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208666 [10:43] Trewas: why would it be supposed to be empty ? [10:43] well, it seems to be empty :) [10:44] Trewas: what mirror are you using ? [10:45] I was lookign at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy-proposed/ === azeem_ is now known as azeem [10:47] Trewas: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmms-crossfade/0.3.14-1build1 [10:47] it has been built only a few ours ago [10:47] it should be available soon in the archive [10:50] ok, I noticed that the last message in that bug was only a few hours old so I wouldn't have been surprised if audacious was not yet there, but as hardy-proposed is completely empty I wondered if some switch had not yet been flipped or something [10:52] Trewas: maybe it's because hardy was released two days ago ;) [10:52] hardy-proposed is to handle SRU [10:52] well yes, but the bug mentions that people should test the new package from hardy-proposed :) [10:52] yes, yes [10:53] it will be available soon [10:53] or it should at least ;) [10:53] hehe, I'll wait and see [10:55] is there *any* documentation on update-manager? /usr/share/doc contains only a one-line readme on update-manager-core === andrew_ is now known as PixelSmack === cprov is now known as cprov-out [12:34] heya [13:34] what happened to binary-ppc on the mirrors? [13:36] wasn't ppc moved to ports.ubuntu.com? [13:37] ah [14:10] asac: a lot of people seem to be clamoring for simply enabling nspluginwrapper for i386. What are your thoughts on doing that for 192888 instead of adjusting pulseaudio? [14:10] asac: (for hardy-proposed) [14:23] ubotu: A link to bug #192888 for the lazy bastards among us, thank you. [14:23] Okay then. [14:28] bug 192888 [14:28] Launchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents when using libflashsupport" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192888 [14:29] I would love to get nspluginwrapper on i386, flash screws up all the time even without pulseaudio [14:30] not for me ... with the first proposed fix to drop hal [14:30] amaranth: [14:30] (pulse-hal stuff indeed) [16:48] Is https://launchpad.net/bugs/211205 marked private or something? The error message I get is not very informative. [16:49] johanbr: this bug contains a backtrace so only QA members can read it [16:49] Apparently it is marked private. At least the bot just told me so. [16:49] stgraber: Maybe it'd be a good idea for launchpad to actually say that. [16:50] And should private bugs really be referenced in a public changelog? [16:51] features in intrepid? [16:51] !intrepid [16:51] Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex [16:51] It supports keyboards. [16:53] huh? [16:56] johanbr: It's not private any more. [16:58]