=== fernando_ is now known as fernando === fernando_ is now known as fernando === asac_ is now known as asac [08:39] pitti: hey [08:40] * pitti hugs seb128 good morning [08:40] * seb128 hugs pitti [08:40] hey Amaranth [08:40] hey seb128 [08:40] pitti: do you have a minute to discuss this camera autoplug action thing? [08:41] seb128: typing a mail ATM, but sure [08:41] pitti: so the issue is due to the fact that the gvfs gphoto backend is not used [08:41] pitti: nautilus relies on finding a DCIM directory on the device to know that photos are there [08:42] pitti: but if it can't mount it, it doesn't know if the directory is there [08:43] pitti: we have 2 ways to fix that I think, one is to implement some other logic in nautilus (looking at the device capabiliy fir example), the other one is to use g-v-m again [08:43] pitti: any opinion on that? [08:44] pitti: if we use g-v-m we ideally should do some changes to nautilus anyway because at the moment it displays some "start photo manager" button on photo locations which doesn't work when clicked [08:44] hey mvo [08:45] hey Amaranth! [08:45] hello mvo [08:46] hey seb128 [08:46] * mvo yawns [08:47] hey mvo [08:47] hey pitti [08:47] seb128: ah, I see; that makes sense [08:47] seb128: my gut feeling is that we should do the following: [08:48] - enable f-spot in g-v-m again, since it fits better into the g-v-m hw category of digicams, scanners, and photo cameras [08:48] - disable the default program setting in the nautilus pane [08:48] that should be easy, and we know that g-v-m works [08:48] ok, deal [08:48] seb128: WDYT? [08:48] ah [08:48] can you do the g-v-m part? I'll do the nautilus one [08:49] sure, absolutely [08:49] * seb128 hugs pitti [08:49] seb128: shuold we entirely disable the widget? or just the gconf thing? [08:49] what widget? [08:49] the nautilus photo program selector [08:50] pitti: mask the widget for now I would say [08:50] seb128: sounds good and less confusing [08:51] seb128: that's hopefully just a tiny patch to the .glade? [08:51] I didn't look at it yet but yeah, should be trivial [08:51] hey dholbach [08:52] good morning [08:52] hi seb128 [08:52] hey dholbach! [08:52] hiya mvo [08:53] hey dholbach [08:53] hey Amaranth [09:07] seb128: do you know any french translator? [09:08] asac: what do you need exactly? I'm an occasional translator and I talk to some of the french team guys by mail or on IRC sometimes [09:08] seb128: french folks are lame confirming suggestsions for firefox-3.0 and xulrunner-1.9 [09:08] seb128: its basically going through the untranslated strings and confirming the existing suggestions [09:08] asac: they refuse to use rosetta to translate it [09:08] * crevette is occasionaly translator as well [09:08] seb128: ? no ... they are just slow ;) [09:08] they have a "don't translate on rosetta things which have an upstream translation team" [09:09] I exchanged mail with them some days ago [09:09] https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+lang/fr [09:09] for firefox3 they say it has an upstream team and they have no reason to fork the work [09:09] asac, don't forget the icon patch for nm-applet btw [09:10] seb128: we need a bit duplication in order to produce innovation here [09:10] asac: they refuse to do it, I had the discussion some days ago [09:10] ok [09:10] they say that leads to work duplication, conflict with upstream, etc [09:10] I can understand from where they come [09:10] seb128: we import upstream translations [09:10] we had too many issues with GNOME because ubuntu forks translations [09:11] seb128: its about "confirming" the ones that have ambiguities [09:11] and ubuntu has less control quality [09:11] and the ubuntu translation take over the upstream ones [09:11] true [09:11] that needs to be sorted in the long run [09:11] how to properly ensure quality and give back translations [09:11] well, they sorted it by deciding that ubuntu translators should only touch things which are ubuntu specific [09:12] i think thats not the vision of rosetta ;) [09:12] and I got the impression that the coordinator would rather quit than sort translations upstream things [09:12] the vision is to take over universe :) [09:12] right [09:12] but I don't want to go to the clash with the french team and have them stop doing any rosetta work [09:12] seb128: the launchpad team coordinator? [09:13] seb128: sure [09:13] yes, for the french team [09:13] ok i understand the french status then ;) [09:13] thanks for clarifying [09:13] you are welcome [09:13] i think we need to work on procedures that allow us to translate in rosetta [09:14] mvo: bzr-buildpackage keeps failing to apply the patches i added but if i extract the tar.gz myself and run quilt push -a it is fine [09:15] and of course it never says _why_ it failed [09:16] oh, because the file doesn't exist [09:16] * Amaranth stabs bzr === mirco_ is now known as MacSlow [10:00] mvo: no luck on a11y stuff :/ [12:59] asac: epiphany-browser still crash in xulrunner at closing, I'll annoy you again after 8.04 to get that fixed for 8.04.1 ;-) [13:01] hey pedro_ [13:01] bonjour seb128 [13:04] seb128: I still need a desktop session (or two if you want) for openweek. [13:04] jcastro: when is that? [13:05] sorry I've been swamped in work recently [13:05] it starts on the 28th [13:05] yeah, I know how you feel. :D [13:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep [13:05] if you just want to add youself or someone from your team [13:06] just add it in [13:07] ok, will do that [13:30] seb's gone :/ [13:31] I'm sure he'll come back one day :) [13:42] crevette: so what was the applet branch? [13:42] branch,... [13:42] with the new icons? [13:42] you mean patch [13:42] :) [13:42] :p [13:43] i cannot apply patches anymore nowadays ;) [13:43] you would have prefered I create a bz branch on lp ? [13:43] crevette: sure. thought i said so ;) [13:43] I can try tomorrow morning [13:43] * crevette is not a hacker [13:43] mvo: the codec installer should not ask you if you want to install or remove extra softwares, do you have a bug about that already? [13:44] crevette: bug id at hand? [13:44] bah, firefox and openoffice are the suck, everything else is nicely translated [13:45] seb128: tell pitti to upload the langpack today not after RC:) [13:45] asac, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/210449 [13:45] Launchpad bug 210449 in network-manager-applet "GNOME icons for nm-applet" [Wishlist,Triaged] [13:45] seb128: i plan to upload manually most important langpacks today [13:45] asac: tell Rosetta to give me an export today, and tell the buildds to actually work [13:45] asac: ok, thanks [13:45] no idea if fr is important ;) [13:45] asac: without buildds, there's nothing we can do, sorry [13:45] * seb128 slaps asac [13:46] perfect timing from is to move those apparently [13:46] and even with full buildd power, it takes about a day to build them all [13:46] pitti: hehe :) i think the latest delta already has the proper xpi/ [13:46] pitti: yeah. thats ok. we already discussed that ;). ill go the manual way for those on CD at least [13:46] what's so bad about uploading them post-RC? [13:47] people who install RC can upgrade immediately [13:47] pitti: no idea ;) ... i would just feel safer to get positive feedback in RC :) [13:47] and the final will be fine [13:47] asac: wasn't the startup page also translated? or is that also pending on language packs updates? [13:47] seb128: no thats independent. however it depends on which translation you have in UI :) [13:48] seb128: so yes, if you don't have a translated firefox you won't see your homepage [13:48] ah, that's a shame [13:48] it should depend on the locale [13:48] because I've the translated version installed [13:48] seb128: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0b3/linux-i686/xpi/ [13:48] seb128: no it depends on the Accept-Language, which depends on the language displayed in ffox [13:49] "Firefox prevented this site ..." wth? [13:49] seb128: you have the translated version installed? [13:49] seb128: I don't think so, what does it ask exactly? [13:49] seb128: you mean "translated desktop" ? [13:50] seb128: sorry the url is old [13:50] mvo: I'm trying the daily CD, I double clicked on a mp3, got the easy codec install thing, installed the required plugin and then I get this dialog asking if I want to install or remove extra softwares [13:50] its http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0b5/linux-i686/xpi/ [13:50] (for b5) [13:50] seb128: oh? hm, could you put a screenshot somewhere? I think I know what it is, but just want to double check [13:51] asac: I've no been following the changes this cycle so I'll just shut up on that, the localized about ubuntu pages used to be shipped in the same package as the ubuntu documentation [13:51] mvo: sure [13:51] seb128: it still is. but it always dependened on the locale installed in ffox [13:51] ok [13:51] one other reason to prefer epiphany-browser ;-) [13:51] the new solution is even less dependent on language packs because we don't have to patch them anymore :) [13:52] seb128: you can go to preferences -> content -> choose preferred languages for display [13:52] and set fr there [13:52] its just that that is usually the one displayed in UI [13:53] * asac hopes it works at all [13:53] * asac trying [13:53] re [13:53] arg pidgin as IRC client [13:53] did somebody wrote something just before I closed the tab? ;-) [13:53] no [13:54] seb128, what about xchat-gnome ? [13:54] crevette: I've doing CD testing and there is no IRC client installed [13:54] s/I've/I'm [13:54] ah [13:55] there is irssi from what I remember [13:55] :) [13:55] and pidgin ;-) [13:55] works for me :) [13:57] brb, rebooting to the normal system [14:01] mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/codecsinstall.png [14:02] show also a bug between compiz and the screenshoter [14:02] no decorations [14:04] asac: btw did you really conflict on j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin or is that a typo in the changelog? [14:05] My favorite screenshot+compiz bug is where the screenshot window doesn't finish flying away before the screenshot is taken [14:05] seb128: ? am i missing something ? [14:05] mpt: screenshot should wait longer :) [14:05] asac: the changelog mentions j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin but that's j2re1.4 which creates the issue [14:05] i thought that this is the conflict you wanted me to add :( [14:06] asac: I told you J2re1.4 no? [14:06] j2re1.4 [14:06] j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin [14:06] thats the same? [14:06] i mean ... its certainly the mozilla-plugin that causes this? [14:07] no [14:07] I removed j2re1.4 on the boxes where I had the issue [14:07] asac: I just tried to reproduce the issue you reported with apturl, it seems to work fine for me and does not ask me to enable multiverse [14:07] I never had the mozilla plugin package installed [14:07] asac: where do you see this? [14:08] mvo: when install flash through plugin installer wizard in ffox [14:08] Amaranth, sure, but how is it supposed to know how long to wait? Needs to be an API for it :-) [14:08] seb128: sorry. i don't understand how that can be. what does firefox have to do with plain runtime? [14:08] mpt: It could always size its window to 0,0 instead of closing it [14:08] i saw the backtrace and it happened when initializing the java plugin [14:09] but i can take a look again [14:09] asac: on a fresh install? [14:09] asac: well, I've no idea, I just know that uninstalling J2re1.4 fixes the issue [14:09] seb128: that will remove the plugin too [14:09] asac: easy enough to trigger, install j2re1.4, open epiphany-browser and go to about:plugins [14:10] asac: I didn't have the plugin installed, I just grepped dpkg.log [14:10] nothing else has been removed [14:10] bug #214468 [14:10] Launchpad bug 214468 in xulrunner-1.9 "[removal request] Remove all java 1.4 bits from hardy (Was: Epiphany crashes inside xulrunner when j2re1.4 is installed)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214468 [14:11] asac: I can not reproduce this here on a fresh install [14:11] * mvo tries harder [14:11] seb128: #133 0xb1377525 in CPluginServiceProvider::QueryService () from /usr/lib/j2se/1.4/jre/plugin/i386/mozilla/libjavaplugin_oji.so [14:11] thats from the stack [14:11] so either the mozilla-plugin is a hoax or ... i don't know :( [14:12] mvo: do you use plugin finder? [14:12] seb128: let me download the j2re package and see if there is such a file in [14:12] asac: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=libjavaplugin_oji.so&mode=exactfilename&suite=gutsy&arch=any [14:13] seb128: ok sorry. [14:14] that's alright [14:14] sorry for not being clear [14:15] Amaranth, sure, but then there might be (probably should be!) an animation for resizing too [14:15] asac: maybe you can quickly get a new revision accepted since the other one is not building yet ;-) [14:15] mpt: that's a toolkit thing [14:15] well. it was one of the things where i wouldn't have understood even if you wrote it in bold letters ;) it auto translated to the -plugin package in my head [14:15] Amaranth: do you know what causes the "no border on screenshots" issue? [14:15] and i'm sure gtk will let you disable it if it ever grows support [14:16] seb128: the screenshot tool doesn't handle a WM that doesn't reparent [14:16] Amaranth: would that be easy to fix? [14:16] Amaranth, it could be either, though I agree doing it at the toolkit would look better [14:17] well [14:17] Not necessarily look better, but be faster, because the toolkit could be smarter about skipping pixels if it was going too slowly [14:17] seb128: no, the screenshot tool needs to grow support for the other half of the spec :) [14:18] Amaranth: hum, k, any other nice screenshooter around we could use? ;-) [14:18] mpt: Do you know the technical reason why resizing looks so bad right now? [14:18] mpt: You don't want the WM to do animated resize :P [14:18] seb128: no idea, i take whole screen screenshots and crop them in gimp [14:19] ok [14:19] seb128: ok building new sources [14:19] seb128: +Conflicts: j2re1.4 [14:19] thats right? [14:20] asac: my bad, have it now [14:20] * asac confused ;) [14:20] mvo: if i press "No" i also get a return code 0 [14:20] no idea if you still have that in your mind [14:20] asac: thanks! [14:20] asac: yes [14:21] mvo: did you see my screenshot? [14:21] Amaranth, no, I thought it was a deliberate (though weird) design choice [14:21] What's the reason? [14:22] Every time I resize a window I get a nostalgia rush for the early '90s [14:22] seb128: ok uploaded. can you approve? (http://paste.ubuntu.com/7119/) [14:23] pitti: ^ [14:26] mpt: The jerkiness is caused by a couple things. Main one is that the WM is not the same process as the app and they communicate asynchronously via X. Other one is that resizing is slow :P [14:27] But #1 is a big reason why #2 is true [14:27] So how will that be fixed? [14:28] in compiz we have outline resize because it beats the hell out of the CPU and GPU doing regular resize and because it causes problems with fglrx+Xgl [14:28] well, Qt fixed it by only using one X window for each window you see on the screen [14:28] instead of separate X windows for every button and etc [14:28] so only one window to keep in sync [14:29] Did Windows 98 and Mac OS X 10.0 do the same? [14:29] Or did they just not have a protocol as slow as X? [14:29] no, in those OSes the application draws its own window decoration [14:29] so resize is kept in sync [14:29] aha [14:29] and in OS X all drawing it locked to vblank [14:30] vblank? [14:30] s/it/is/ [14:30] the refresh rate of your monitor [14:30] 60Hz is 60 fps, etc [14:30] So could GTK do the same as Qt? [14:30] we can sync to vblank for OpenGL stuff but not for Xv or regular X drawing [14:31] it could but it would be a huge chunk of work [14:31] but the infrastructure is slowly getting into place, it seems [14:32] asac: both issues are fixed in bzr, I check the race with the first apt-get update now [14:33] mvo: did you look into apturl unnecessary updating caches or something at startup? [14:33] it always does a lot of rumbling ... that i don't really understand :( [14:34] asac: it has to open the cache, no way around it to check if the package is installed, I can check if I can make it quicker [14:36] mvo: dpkg -l would be really quick [14:37] compared to what we have right now [14:37] seb128: totem 'http://anytime.tv4.se/webtv/metafile.asx?MSG=mc1lSbUlityW0cJiqRrJ(xfyWIKhyDr4FyDJrUewlu8RtZiUhdDWyxd8hFg3ymUtqZas4oE1y6ft2I)1FlATFCALGsAD8kTOICOIvr72a0c!' [14:37] that makes totem hang once the missing codec is installed (and on subsequent startups) [14:37] no idea if you care ;) [14:39] asac: weird, I get a message saying the ressource is not available [14:39] asac: time apturl apt:2vcard until the dialog pops up is 1,5s for me - not great, but not that bad either [14:40] asac: do you see something different? [14:40] seb128: hmmm maybe temporary then [14:40] nevermind [14:41] mvo: i don't mean the time before the dialog popsup, but the time it takes after you confirm before it starts to download and install [14:42] anyway, i think nothing we can fix in hardy. i guess the idea would be to test if its downloadable and only if that fails update cache [14:55] crevette: the nm-applet icons look identical except the connect spinning [14:55] i don't see a difference at least [15:00] seb128: is it consense that we want the new NM icons? [15:00] asac: I've no been following this issue and didn't try those but I think that people who commented liked those better yes [15:01] you should ask kwwii and mpt about it rather [15:01] crevette: can you please confirm that the normal icons are not affected by this? that its just the spinner during connect that changed? [15:01] kwwii: mpt can you please give a go for the new NM applet icons? [15:01] asac: erm, what exactly does that mean? [15:02] I know that NM applet has it's own icons, nothing much more than that [15:03] kwwii: bug 210449 [15:03] Launchpad bug 210449 in network-manager-applet "GNOME icons for nm-applet" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210449 [15:03] kwwii: i have this request to apply the new, better gnome icons. [15:04] the issue is still being discussed with the upstream maintainer I think [15:04] yeah most likely [15:04] UI FREEZE! :) [15:04] dholbach: who cares? ;-) [15:04] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504822 [15:05] Gnome bug 504822 in nm-applet "Use GNOME updated style for icons" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] [15:05] dholbach: i think the desktop team meeting back a week or two voted in favour of those icons. but i lost all documentation [15:05] asac: lol, looking at a debdiff does not necessarily give me an idea of what the icons look like :p [15:05] kwwii: yeah i know [15:05] asac: I think you discussed this on this can and kwwii said those were better but I'm not sure either [15:05] kwwii: but UU encoded icons should be readable for artists :) [15:05] s/can/chan [15:06] crevette: around? [15:06] kwwii: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=102117 [15:06] seb128, yep [15:06] i think those are the ones ... but i still have to figure out if they are really the ones i have in this patch :) [15:06] asac: yeah, found that, checking it out [15:06] asac, what do you mean by "give a go"? [15:06] you're lucky I've just arrived [15:06] crevette: can you please verify that only the spinning icon has changed? [15:06] crevette: can you reply to asac quesiton? [15:06] andreasn: I assume you think you should take the new gnome icons, right? [15:06] ah [15:06] mpt: sign off that we prefer those over the official upstream ones [15:06] andreasn: the connecting animation int he current set is simply ugly [15:07] asac, where are they? [15:07] mpt: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=102117 [15:07] asac, there is more than the spinning if I remember correctly [15:07] I can't look at the list right now unformtunetely [15:07] crevette then tell me which. the patch you gave me doesn't change anything else for me [15:07] hmm [15:08] I should have the file around here (I'm at work on windows) [15:08] kwwii: I'm not sure what to do exactly. The current green lights don't give me any clue at all what's happening exactly, but I know it's doing something when it takes a long time... [15:08] crevette: the ones you have me definitly are completely different than the ones in the bug above [15:08] i am lost [15:08] kwwii: apart from that, it would make very much sense to use the spinner from the selected icon theme [15:09] andreasn: i think thats beyond the scope what can be done here [15:09] for hardy [15:09] andreasn: yeah, ideally that would be best [15:10] asac, they look good to me [15:10] well [15:10] they look like an improvement, anyway :-) [15:10] kwwii: well the spinner should at least give more info than just that something is happening. no idea if users would understand that its actually connecting somewhere [15:11] mpt: yeah :) ... no i just have to figure, why the patch i got doesn't ship those at all [15:11] asac: true, it is more than a simple spinner [15:11] asac: I think that the gnome icons are a definite improvement (although the wired device icon seems somehow wrong to me) [15:12] I don't think it picks up the wired device icon, it takes that from the theme (I think?) [15:12] so that tar.gz might be shipping a few too many pixmaps than are actually used [15:13] asac, seb128: xul looks ok [15:13] pitti: thanks [15:13] pitti: thanks [15:14] andreasn: yes. thats what i see here. no change for the wired device icon [15:14] andreasn: same goes for wireless signal strength icon [15:14] no change [15:15] no idea if it makes sense to apply something that just changes the spinner ... and that spinner is not even in the upsream bug [15:16] I think that changing the spinner is worth it [15:16] the current blue gree thingy with the dots makes little snese [15:17] of course, if we had 2D system-try-thingy icons it would be even better :-) [15:18] mpt: how does other systems solve the lack of feedback during the time it takes to connect to a wireless network? [15:20] andreasn, OS X slides the Airport icon (and therefore all icons to its left) to the left, shows a scrolling marquee of the network name to the right, then removes the marquee once the connection is finished [15:20] looks a bit crappy really [15:20] I don't know what Vista does [15:21] marquee? [15:21] kwwii: for me the spinner submitted doesn't really look better [15:22] at least not more meaning full [15:22] andreasn, copy and paste this into Firefox's URL bar: data:text/html,T-Mobile [15:22] asac: agreed that it does not present much more information but 1) it looks better and 2) it matches the spinner in nautilus and firefox [15:23] andreasn, that's about what it looks like [15:23] ouch [15:23] I didn't know you could do that btw, cool [15:23] kwwii: where do you see that spinner? [15:23] kwwii: just wondere because i didn't have it in the upstrema bug tarball? [15:23] + blink is worse [15:23] kwwii: if you say thats ok, ill take it now [15:23] Hobbsee: thihi [15:24] andreasn: my myspace page was infintely better, though. [15:24] i'm still disappointed that it got removed [15:24] asac: I looked at the spinner in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=102117 [15:24] the one with the little dots in a circle [15:27] kwwii: what we have for wireless are the nm-stage03-connectionXXXX.png series [15:27] anyway. lets take it hen [15:31] I agree :-) === solarion is now known as Solarion [16:03] hi [16:20] hey lapo [16:27] mvo: i requested a merge on your https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/app-install-data-ubuntu/ubuntu branch [16:27] i am currently branching the merge source and see if it really works. will let you know asap [16:28] but takes time :( [16:28] mvo: maybe consider to upgrade that to new branch format? (no idea if you already did that?) [16:31] asac: isn't it the lastest already? when we talked last I ugpraded all that I could get hold off [16:31] hmm [16:32] not sure [16:32] bzr info should show pack-0.92 [16:32] i think jazzva told me that the data branch was still "dirstate" [16:34] hm, bzr upgrade bzr+ssh:// on that branch gave me that its already the latest version [16:48] wierd [16:50] mvo: ok that branch works ... maybe there will be another round of more extensions, but imo its safe to take it now [16:50] (more extensions added ask .desktop) [17:01] asac: looks good, merging [17:06] thanks [17:06] can you mark the branch as "merged" in "view merge proposal" on launchpad side? [17:19] asac: I can not see where I can do that in https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/app-install-data-ubuntu/ubuntu [17:20] mvo: you click on the "view proposal details" [17:20] then on the left "mark as merged" [17:20] aha [17:20] done [17:21] cool [17:21] now the branch disappeared from yours again [17:21] mvo: i dont see that merge in the last 10 commits? [17:21] already pushed? [17:22] still pushing [18:04] mvo: you dont give credits in commit message? :-P [18:16] asac: I use debcommit [18:18] that doesn't give credits? [18:19]